From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 1 00:04:14 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 14:04:14 +1000 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> References: <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> As it should ;-) -- M E R Goulding Software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! On 01/08/2013, at 1:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Thanks for prompting my re-read (so much falls out of one's head after a few days in Hawaii ). From rman at free.fr Thu Aug 1 05:52:49 2013 From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> So to sum it up : 1. Situation is a big mess :: all stacks published at revOnline are ab initio protected by copyright, which is in apparent conflict with the purpose of revOnline, which is to share code ideas and code. 2. Authors SHOULD specify the terms and license they agree upon 3. Clearly, taking a revOnline stack and distributing a commercial version without the original author consent would be illegal. 4. Open Source Side effect : If authors do not do not care to specify an Open Source License, the stack cannot be simply modified and re-published with OS Livecode, as the second "user" will have no clean right to do so, except if he asks the original author for authorization or license to do so. That should be cleared a minimum at the revOnline publishing stage otherwise one could end up with a bunch of mixed spaghettis. 5. The protection of libraries remains to be clarified. ----------- Question :: what if I open a revOline stack, find some handlers and mechanism I like to use elsewhere, just copy part of the script from the editor, modify a little to suit my precise needs and environment. Copyright applies to a complete work and does and should not protect "ideas". The purpose of revOnline is to promote the communication of "ideas" of implementations... so we are on a kind of frontier. So that practice of using revOnline as a source of inspiration should not break copyright rules??? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/revOnline-and-Open-Source-tp4668100p4668212.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 1 06:25:40 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:25:40 +0200 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <51FA37A4.6010305@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Robert, I would think that it is clear to users that sharing code (rather than stacks) in the code section of RevOnline, implies that people can use it to learn from. Copying and using it would violate copyright, but studying the code and reverse-engineering it would be a form of "fair use" because one may reasonably presume that people are aware of the learning function of the code section. Note that this explanation doesn't apply to stacks. Copyright doesn't protect ideas. That's what patents are for. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/1/2013 11:52, Robert Mann wrote: > So to sum it up : > > 1. Situation is a big mess :: all stacks published at revOnline are ab > initio protected by copyright, which is in apparent conflict with the > purpose of revOnline, which is to share code ideas and code. > 2. Authors SHOULD specify the terms and license they agree upon > 3. Clearly, taking a revOnline stack and distributing a commercial version > without the original author consent would be illegal. > 4. Open Source Side effect : If authors do not do not care to specify an > Open Source License, the stack cannot be simply modified and re-published > with OS Livecode, as the second "user" will have no clean right to do so, > except if he asks the original author for authorization or license to do so. > That should be cleared a minimum at the revOnline publishing stage otherwise > one could end up with a bunch of mixed spaghettis. > > 5. The protection of libraries remains to be clarified. > > ----------- > Question :: what if I open a revOline stack, find some handlers and > mechanism I like to use elsewhere, just copy part of the script from the > editor, modify a little to suit my precise needs and environment. > > Copyright applies to a complete work and does and should not protect > "ideas". The purpose of revOnline is to promote the communication of "ideas" > of implementations... so we are on a kind of frontier. > > So that practice of using revOnline as a source of inspiration should not > break copyright rules??? > From kevin at runrev.com Thu Aug 1 08:56:14 2013 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 13:56:14 +0100 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: I think most of the people sharing on revOnline are happy for their ideas to be used, otherwise they wouldn't have uploaded the stacks. However I do agree that some legal clarification is a good idea. How about we state that everything on revOnline is automatically public domain, *unless* the author of the stack places a clear notice on the stack that declares copyright and an alternative license of their choice (they can use whatever they like but only if they say so clearly)? This is just a suggestion for feedback, not policy yet, so let me know what you think. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can code On 01/08/2013 10:52, "Robert Mann" wrote: >So to sum it up : > >1. Situation is a big mess :: all stacks published at revOnline are ab >initio protected by copyright, which is in apparent conflict with the >purpose of revOnline, which is to share code ideas and code. >2. Authors SHOULD specify the terms and license they agree upon >3. Clearly, taking a revOnline stack and distributing a commercial version >without the original author consent would be illegal. >4. Open Source Side effect : If authors do not do not care to specify an >Open Source License, the stack cannot be simply modified and re-published >with OS Livecode, as the second "user" will have no clean right to do so, >except if he asks the original author for authorization or license to do >so. >That should be cleared a minimum at the revOnline publishing stage >otherwise >one could end up with a bunch of mixed spaghettis. > >5. The protection of libraries remains to be clarified. > >----------- >Question :: what if I open a revOline stack, find some handlers and >mechanism I like to use elsewhere, just copy part of the script from the >editor, modify a little to suit my precise needs and environment. > >Copyright applies to a complete work and does and should not protect >"ideas". The purpose of revOnline is to promote the communication of >"ideas" >of implementations... so we are on a kind of frontier. > >So that practice of using revOnline as a source of inspiration should not >break copyright rules??? > > > > > > > >-- >View this message in context: >http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/revOnline-and-Open-Source-t >p4668100p4668212.html >Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 1 09:10:33 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 06:10:33 -0700 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FA5E49.7010805@fourthworld.com> Kevin Miller wrote: > I think most of the people sharing on revOnline are happy for their ideas > to be used, otherwise they wouldn't have uploaded the stacks. However I do > agree that some legal clarification is a good idea. How about we state > that everything on revOnline is automatically public domain, *unless* the > author of the stack places a clear notice on the stack that declares > copyright and an alternative license of their choice (they can use > whatever they like but only if they say so clearly)? > > This is just a suggestion for feedback, not policy yet, so let me know > what you think. I like it, provided folks understand what public domain means (include a simple definition?). Your proposed solution seems the best of all worlds: simplicity for those who don't care about defining licenses, while allowing those who do to choose a license appropriate for their goals. Gets my vote. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 1 09:35:16 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 14:35:16 +0100 (BST) Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <51FA37A4.6010305@economy-x-talk.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA37A4.6010305@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <1375364116.2493.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> This thread is too long and full of misunderstandings (even from the expert lawyer on the technical side) to reply to every post separately. ?Here's my take (IANAL but I did work for a open source software foundation and write the licensing FAQs etc): 1) Anything published without an explicit copyright license (or public domain disclaimer) has an implied license for you to make use of it personally but not to redistribute it or derivatives. ?GitHub very recently woke up to this issue and the huge amount of legally suspect sharing they were encouraging - they added a license picker to their repository creation process:?https://help.github.com/articles/open-source-licensing As part of this they created the very helpful?http://choosealicense.com/?which in turn includes?http://choosealicense.com/no-license/?- for another carefully crafted take on what having no explicit license means. 2) If you choose to create and share an open source library under an open source license then you don't usually also need a contributors agreement. ?Code contributed to a project with an explicit license falls under the terms of that license. ?Contributors agreements are for the ultra-paranoid or for situations (like RunRev's) where you need extra rights from the contributors than those given by the license (e.g. RunRev also needs the right to distribute contributions in the commercial version as well as the GPLv3 community version). ?If you want to have an open source library (usable with community edition) and accept external contributions but you also want to use it in commercial closed source apps then choose a permissive license (e.g. MIT). 3) Stackfiles are (almost certainly) not derivative works. The content of stacks is generated by LiveCode but they do not contain bits of the engine code. ?You could think of this as similar to the paint package case - most image files will have a header and encode your pixel data in some special machine readable format - they don't put parts of the paint package code in the file. 4) Standalones include the engine code and most definitely are derivative works and thus subject to the GPL. 5) Regardless of licensing issues, you can do whatever you want with (non-password protected) stacks you find on revOnline or anywhere else with the community edition *for your own use* - its further distribution of what you do that is restricted by the GPL. ?Indeed the GPL very carefully secures your right to do almost anything you like with LiveCode for your own personal consumption. ?The concept of "fair use" also applies to things like learning and study, giving you freedom to do those whatever the original license on the stack - it does not usually apply to commercial use or redistribution, although if your use is sufficiently transformative (i.e. you make the code do something else) it may. ?However, copyright law is frankly completely inappropriate for software, having evolved for books, newspapers, songs etc. ?There is not a great deal of case law in this area to clear up the mess, I suspect because most software companies don't want to risk precedents being set and thus settle out of court. ?What precedents there are tend to follow a general trend of "you can do whatever you like if you don't distribute it (e.g. hacking/reverse engineering etc) but if you're making money out of any reproduction or derivative work you'll have to pay the copyright holder". ?As such, it's best to avoid any commercial use of material with unknown licensing. 6) You can't patent ideas - only inventions. ?Patents for software are an even worse idea than copyright, unfortunately US lobbyists somehow managed to get that form of protection extended. ?There's a stackexchange site specifically for patent examiners to crowdsource prior art for dodgy patent applications:?http://patents.stackexchange.com/ From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 1 09:45:02 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 14:45:02 +0100 (BST) Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <51FA5E49.7010805@fourthworld.com> References: <51FA5E49.7010805@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1375364702.26319.YahooMailNeo@web28804.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Kevin Miller wrote: > I think most of the people sharing on revOnline are happy for their ideas > to be used, otherwise they wouldn't have uploaded the stacks. However I do > agree that some legal clarification is a good idea. How about we state > that everything on revOnline is automatically public domain, *unless* the > author of the stack places a clear notice on the stack that declares > copyright and an alternative license of their choice (they can use > whatever they like but only if they say so clearly)? >? > This is just a suggestion for feedback, not policy yet, so let me know > what you think. Yes, great idea. ?Just 2 points: 1) CC0 - the creative commons public domain equivalent with fallbacks (you can't give up your rights to your work in the same ways everywhere in the world) is better for software than a simple public domain declaration. 2) You'd do this by making it part of the terms and conditions of use. ?I'm not at all sure about the legality of retrospectively applying it to content that's already been uploaded without explicit permission, even if you broadcast a change to the T's & C's. ?What fraction of the content is regularly updated? ?How complex would it be to get permission for the existing stuff? ?That said, only new stuff having an automatic CC0 license would be much better than doing nothing. Mark _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 09:49:06 2013 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 21:49:06 +0800 Subject: Persistent LC server? In-Reply-To: <51F9D738.7080009@fourthworld.com> References: <51F9D738.7080009@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3C13BDC3-584D-4C50-A7F6-80A05463A331@gmail.com> Richard On 1 Aug 2013, at 11:34, Richard Gaskin wrote: > The trick here is that LC Server is designed to run as a CGI; that is, the process is born, lives, and dies in the time it takes to satisfy a request. It is your choice whether to run LC Server as a CGI or not: Schulz:LiveCodeServer peter$ cat > hr.lc Schulz:LiveCodeServer peter$ ./livecode-server hr.lc Hello Richard. No CGI here You should be able to run the same code as you would run using the Desktop version save for the GUI. I guess the pitfall of this approach is that you can only handle one request at a time. Hope this helps. Peter http://LiveCode1001.blogspot.com From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 10:10:06 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:10:06 -0700 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <51F9D5A2.2020504@fourthworld.com> References: <51F9D5A2.2020504@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Dr. Hawkins wrote: >> As the author of the seminal Economic paper on the subject, I chose >> "viral" and "public" quite deliberately. > That's certainly your right, or anyone's right, regardless of any academic > credentials. It's also the term used in the literature. > Just the same, terms like "viral" and "infect" are unnecessarily > provocative. I don't think they're provocative so much as descriptive. >> I also wouldn't release or contribute any code to anything under GPL3 >> (I have under GP2). The patent gotchas are just to risky. > What are your patent concerns? There are some automatic assignments of rights and revocation of licensuree in the GPL3. I'm just not risking those in a license with as much ambiguity as the GPL; I'm not even looking at the specifics before going far, far away. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 10:15:19 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:15:19 -0700 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <51FA37A4.6010305@economy-x-talk.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA37A4.6010305@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:25 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > I would think that it is clear to users that sharing code (rather than > stacks) in the code section of RevOnline, implies that people can use it to > learn from. Copying and using it would violate copyright, I think the downloader using it is implied as a permission, too--but not his copying for someone else, paid or not. > but studying the > code and reverse-engineering it would be a form of "fair use" because one > may reasonably presume that people are aware of the learning function of the > code section. Reverse engineering has it's own rules I don't even pretend to understand. It's typically done by two isolated teams; one makes a definition from studying it, while the "clean" team writes new code from scratch (e.g., the Phoenix bios of the 8088 days). > Copyright doesn't protect ideas. That's what patents are for. Nope. There's nothing for ideas. Patents cover implementations and methods. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 10:17:31 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:17:31 -0700 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Robert Mann wrote: > So to sum it up : That pretty much sums it up. > 5. The protection of libraries remains to be clarified. I don't see a real difference in this context. > Question :: what if I open a revOline stack, find some handlers and > mechanism I like to use elsewhere, just copy part of the script from the > editor, modify a little to suit my precise needs and environment. > > Copyright applies to a complete work No. That's just not the case. > and does and should not protect > "ideas". Correct, but what you are talking about are "derived works." Can't do that without violating the copyright. > So that practice of using revOnline as a source of inspiration should not > break copyright rules??? Inspiration, yes. Code, no. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 10:22:12 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:22:12 -0700 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: References: <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 5:56 AM, Kevin Miller wrote: > I think most of the people sharing on revOnline are happy for their ideas > to be used, otherwise they wouldn't have uploaded the stacks. However I do > agree that some legal clarification is a good idea. How about we state > that everything on revOnline is automatically public domain, *unless* the > author of the stack places a clear notice on the stack that declares > copyright and an alternative license of their choice (they can use > whatever they like but only if they say so clearly)? You'll still need to clarify between pre-policy and post-policy uploads. You could also make selecting a language tag (Pub. Domain, BSD, GPL, creative commons, other) a mandatory part of the upload process. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 10:25:55 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:25:55 -0700 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <1375364116.2493.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA37A4.6010305@economy-x-talk.com> <1375364116.2493.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 6:35 AM, Mark Wilcox wrote: > > 3) Stackfiles are (almost certainly) not derivative works. The content of stacks is > generated by LiveCode but they do not contain bits of the engine code. If they don't contain *any* code, I agree. If I designed such a file format, it would only have descriptions of what the user did, and would be pure ascii. I can't tell; there are certainly non-ascii characters in there, and I just don't know what they are. I *assume* that they're just part of the description . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 11:30:24 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 18:30:24 +0300 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> On 08/01/2013 12:52 PM, Robert Mann wrote: > So to sum it up : > > 1. Situation is a big mess :: all stacks published at revOnline are ab > initio protected by copyright, which is in apparent conflict with the > purpose of revOnline, which is to share code ideas and code. > 2. Authors SHOULD specify the terms and license they agree upon > 3. Clearly, taking a revOnline stack and distributing a commercial version > without the original author consent would be illegal. > 4. Open Source Side effect : If authors do not do not care to specify an > Open Source License, the stack cannot be simply modified and re-published > with OS Livecode, as the second "user" will have no clean right to do so, > except if he asks the original author for authorization or license to do so. > That should be cleared a minimum at the revOnline publishing stage otherwise > one could end up with a bunch of mixed spaghettis. > > 5. The protection of libraries remains to be clarified. > > ----------- > Question :: what if I open a revOline stack, find some handlers and > mechanism I like to use elsewhere, just copy part of the script from the > editor, modify a little to suit my precise needs and environment. > > Copyright applies to a complete work and does and should not protect > "ideas". The purpose of revOnline is to promote the communication of "ideas" > of implementations... so we are on a kind of frontier. > > So that practice of using revOnline as a source of inspiration should not > break copyright rules??? > > What you are doing is showing how "dicky" the concept of copyright, unless directly stated, seems to be . . . . . . many years ago my father had the idea of making rubber overshoes for horses, and wrote about that idea to a friend of his, who said that the idea sounded fairly daft . . . . . . almost simultaneously, my father discovered that somebody had had the same idea, and later started marketing the things. There was absolutely no question that my Dad's friend had done anything sneaky with my Dad's idea; he hadn't. Now, I suppose my father could have wasted a lot of time, effort and money trying to make a case for his getting some of the profits from the sales of rubber overshoes for horses because he had had the idea, and written about it to a friend, about a year before the other chap started making them. So: I really don't see how ideas can be copyrighted. I have pupils of mine making calculator apps with Livecode as part of their progging classes with me: I cannot see why (should one of those kids decide to market his/her app) anybody should have to start paying royalties to the first person who developed a calculator app for a computer, or, for that matter, the person who first marketed a handheld electronic calculator. I show the kids I work with my (bust) Sinclair calculator [ http://www.vintage-technology.info/pages/calculators/s/sinccamuni.jpg ] (well it is good for a few laughs), explain its erstwhile functionality on the whiteboard, and off they go with their progging. I am not sending five pound notes to Sir Clive Sinclair (even though I admire tha man immensely). -------------------------------------------- If copyright is not explicitly stated then, surely, the thing is up for grabs . . . I own a copy of "The Microbiblion" (published 1640), and were I to believe that as it has no explicit copyright statement it was somehow protected by some implicit law I would be flying in the face of the people who published it, when there were no copyright laws, and even the concept of copyright did not exist. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 11:35:27 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 18:35:27 +0300 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FA803F.502@gmail.com> On 08/01/2013 03:56 PM, Kevin Miller wrote: > I think most of the people sharing on revOnline are happy for their ideas > to be used, otherwise they wouldn't have uploaded the stacks. However I do > agree that some legal clarification is a good idea. How about we state > that everything on revOnline is automatically public domain, *unless* the > author of the stack places a clear notice on the stack that declares > copyright and an alternative license of their choice (they can use > whatever they like but only if they say so clearly)? > > This is just a suggestion for feedback, not policy yet, so let me know > what you think. > > Kind regards, > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can code > > > Well, Kevin, at the risk of putting everybody's back up (surely not), here's what I think: revOnline should split into two: 1. A version of revOnline where all stacks, plugins, code-snippets and so on are covered by some sort of copyright notice, so that all would-be "takers" are aware that they will have to jump through some sort of leagl hoop to do so. 2. A version of revOnline where everything is either Open Source (and covered by an Open Source fair-use document) or completely FREE. Doing this will free contributors to either of these versions of revOnline from having to spend ages on sorting out licensing documents for stacks that conatin possibly as little as half-a-dozen lines of code. Richmond. From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 1 11:44:58 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:44:58 +0100 (BST) Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA37A4.6010305@economy-x-talk.com> <1375364116.2493.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1375371898.86355.YahooMailNeo@web28803.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Dr. Hawkins wrote: > If they don't contain *any* code, I agree.? If I designed such a file > format, it would only > have descriptions of what the user did, and would be pure ascii. > I can't tell; there are certainly non-ascii characters in there, and I > just don't know what > they are.? I *assume* that they're just part of the description . . . Here's one of many reasons?why copyright is so bad for software. ?Pure ascii file formats are horrendously inefficient for some types of data, yet if file formats aren't human readable then how is anyone supposed to judge whether or not they contain any copyrighted material? I think Monte said that the binary parts of the file are just the properties of the various objects serialised. ?We could go through the source with a fine-toothed comb to make sure there's no common little bit of code from the engine sources copied into every stack but I don't believe that would create a derivative work in any case. ?Every stack will have the common handler definitions too, whether generated by the IDE or typed. ?Starting a story "Once upon a time..." doesn't make it a derivative work of the first such story to do so (OK probably a bad example as I'm sure that's out of copyright by now but you get the point). ?It's also not in RunRev's interests to have their engine license infect stacks - that wouldn't work well with the commercial license. From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 1 12:06:43 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 17:06:43 +0100 (BST) Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Richmond wrote: > If copyright is not explicitly stated then, surely, the thing is up for grabs . . . That is very definitely not the case, although ideas can't be copyrighted only a particular expression of an idea. ?So if you made a calculator app that looked and/or worked exactly like mine, or at least extremely similar then I may be able to sue you for copyright infringement. ?It's much easier to prove infringement on visual copying than functional copying. > I own a copy of "The Microbiblion" (published 1640), and were I to believe that as it has no explicit copyright > statement it was somehow protected by some implicit law I would be flying in the face of the people who > published it, when there were no copyright laws, and even the concept of copyright did not exist. If it was published in 1640 then the copyright has definitely expired, whether it existed at the time of creation or not. ?I believe books currently get 70 years after the year of the author's death and computer created works 50 years from the creation date (what about eBooks I wonder?). ?After that time they are automatically public domain (in the UK) - the rules differ slightly in different countries but have been adjusted to be broadly the same in most of the developed world at least. ________________________________ From: Richmond To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2013, 16:30 Subject: Re: revOnline and Open Source On 08/01/2013 12:52 PM, Robert Mann wrote: > So to sum it up : > > 1. Situation is a big mess :: all stacks published at revOnline are ab > initio protected by copyright, which is in apparent conflict with the > purpose of revOnline, which is to share code ideas and code. > 2. Authors SHOULD specify the terms and license they agree upon > 3. Clearly, taking a revOnline stack and distributing a commercial version > without the original author consent would be illegal. > 4. Open? Source Side effect : If authors do not do not care to specify an > Open Source License, the stack cannot be simply modified and re-published > with OS Livecode, as the second "user" will have no clean right to do so, > except if he asks the original author for authorization or license to do so. > That should be cleared a minimum at the revOnline publishing stage otherwise > one could end up with a bunch of mixed spaghettis. > > 5. The protection of libraries remains to be clarified. > > ----------- > Question :: what if I open a revOline stack, find some handlers and > mechanism I like to use elsewhere, just copy part of the script from the > editor, modify a little to suit my precise needs and environment. > > Copyright applies to a complete work and does and should not protect > "ideas". The purpose of revOnline is to promote the communication of "ideas" > of implementations... so we are on a kind of frontier. > > So that practice of using revOnline as a source of inspiration should not > break copyright rules??? > > What you are doing is showing how "dicky" the concept of copyright, unless directly stated, seems to be . . . . . . many years ago my father had the idea of making rubber overshoes for horses, and wrote about that idea to a friend of his, who said that the idea sounded fairly daft . . . . . . almost simultaneously, my father discovered that somebody had had the same idea, and later started marketing the things. There was absolutely no question that my Dad's friend had done anything sneaky with my Dad's idea; he hadn't. Now, I suppose my father could have wasted a lot of time, effort and money trying to make a case for his getting some of the profits from the sales of rubber overshoes for horses because he had had the idea, and written about it to a friend, about a year before the other chap started making them. So: I really don't see how ideas can be copyrighted. I have pupils of mine making calculator apps with Livecode as part of their progging classes with me: I cannot see why (should one of those kids decide to market his/her app) anybody should have to start paying royalties to the first person who developed a calculator app for a computer, or, for that matter, the person who first marketed a handheld electronic calculator. I show the kids I work with my (bust) Sinclair calculator [ http://www.vintage-technology.info/pages/calculators/s/sinccamuni.jpg ] (well it is good for a few laughs), explain its erstwhile functionality? on the whiteboard, and off they go with their progging. I am not sending five pound notes to Sir Clive Sinclair (even though I admire tha man immensely). -------------------------------------------- If copyright is not explicitly stated then, surely, the thing is up for grabs . . . I own a copy of "The Microbiblion" (published 1640), and were I to believe that as it has no explicit copyright statement it was somehow protected by some implicit law I would be flying in the face of the people who published it, when there were no copyright laws, and even the concept of copyright did not exist. Richmond. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 1 12:34:19 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:34:19 -0400 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This is just awful and freudian at the same time. I did a double-take when I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was "revOnline and Open Sores" On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Mark Wilcox wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > > If copyright is not explicitly stated then, surely, the thing is up for > grabs . . . > > That is very definitely not the case, although ideas can't be copyrighted > only a particular expression of an idea. So if you made a calculator app > that looked and/or worked exactly like mine, or at least extremely similar > then I may be able to sue you for copyright infringement. It's much easier > to prove infringement on visual copying than functional copying. > > I own a copy of "The Microbiblion" (published 1640), and were I to > believe that as it has no explicit copyright > > statement it was somehow protected by some implicit law I would be > flying in the face of the people who > > published it, when there were no copyright laws, and even the concept of > copyright did not exist. > > If it was published in 1640 then the copyright has definitely expired, > whether it existed at the time of creation or not. I believe books > currently get 70 years after the year of the author's death and computer > created works 50 years from the creation date (what about eBooks I > wonder?). After that time they are automatically public domain (in the UK) > - the rules differ slightly in different countries but have been adjusted > to be broadly the same in most of the developed world at least. > > > > ________________________________ > From: Richmond > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2013, 16:30 > Subject: Re: revOnline and Open Source > > > On 08/01/2013 12:52 PM, Robert Mann wrote: > > So to sum it up : > > > > 1. Situation is a big mess :: all stacks published at revOnline are ab > > initio protected by copyright, which is in apparent conflict with the > > purpose of revOnline, which is to share code ideas and code. > > 2. Authors SHOULD specify the terms and license they agree upon > > 3. Clearly, taking a revOnline stack and distributing a commercial > version > > without the original author consent would be illegal. > > 4. Open Source Side effect : If authors do not do not care to specify an > > Open Source License, the stack cannot be simply modified and re-published > > with OS Livecode, as the second "user" will have no clean right to do so, > > except if he asks the original author for authorization or license to do > so. > > That should be cleared a minimum at the revOnline publishing stage > otherwise > > one could end up with a bunch of mixed spaghettis. > > > > 5. The protection of libraries remains to be clarified. > > > > ----------- > > Question :: what if I open a revOline stack, find some handlers and > > mechanism I like to use elsewhere, just copy part of the script from the > > editor, modify a little to suit my precise needs and environment. > > > > Copyright applies to a complete work and does and should not protect > > "ideas". The purpose of revOnline is to promote the communication of > "ideas" > > of implementations... so we are on a kind of frontier. > > > > So that practice of using revOnline as a source of inspiration should not > > break copyright rules??? > > > > > > What you are doing is showing how "dicky" the concept of copyright, unless > directly stated, seems > to be . . . > > . . . many years ago my father had the idea of making rubber overshoes for > horses, and wrote > about that idea to a friend of his, who said that the idea sounded fairly > daft . . . > > . . . almost simultaneously, my father discovered that somebody had had > the same idea, and later started marketing the things. There was absolutely > no question that my Dad's friend had done anything sneaky with > my Dad's idea; he hadn't. > > Now, I suppose my father could have wasted a lot of time, effort and money > trying to make a case for his getting some of the profits from the sales of > rubber overshoes for horses because he had had the idea, and written about > it to a friend, about a year before the other chap started making them. > > So: I really don't see how ideas can be copyrighted. > > I have pupils of mine making calculator apps with Livecode as part of > their progging classes with > me: I cannot see why (should one of those kids decide to market his/her > app) anybody should > have to start paying royalties to the first person who developed a > calculator app for a computer, or, > for that matter, the person who first marketed a handheld electronic > calculator. > > I show the kids I work with my (bust) Sinclair calculator [ > http://www.vintage-technology.info/pages/calculators/s/sinccamuni.jpg ] > (well it is good for a few laughs), explain its erstwhile functionality on > the whiteboard, > and off they go with their progging. I am not sending five pound notes to > Sir Clive Sinclair (even though I > admire tha man immensely). > > -------------------------------------------- > > If copyright is not explicitly stated then, surely, the thing is up for > grabs . . . > > I own a copy of "The Microbiblion" (published 1640), and were I to believe > that as it has no explicit copyright > statement it was somehow protected by some implicit law I would be flying > in the face of the people who > published it, when there were no copyright laws, and even the concept of > copyright did not exist. > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 1 12:58:36 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:58:36 -0700 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <51FA5E49.7010805@fourthworld.com> References: <51FA5E49.7010805@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I'm in favor of a statement making it clear what the conditions for uploading stacks to revOnline are. I'm not in favor of allowing those terms to be overriden by people setting their own licensing terms on a stack by stack basis. The whole point of revOnline is to freely and openly share code with no strings attached. If that's not what you want to do, then you should find a location that is more appropriate to your objectives. Pete lcSQL Software On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 6:10 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Kevin Miller wrote: > >> I think most of the people sharing on revOnline are happy for their ideas >> to be used, otherwise they wouldn't have uploaded the stacks. However I do >> agree that some legal clarification is a good idea. How about we state >> that everything on revOnline is automatically public domain, *unless* the >> author of the stack places a clear notice on the stack that declares >> copyright and an alternative license of their choice (they can use >> whatever they like but only if they say so clearly)? >> >> This is just a suggestion for feedback, not policy yet, so let me know >> what you think. >> > > I like it, provided folks understand what public domain means (include a > simple definition?). > > Your proposed solution seems the best of all worlds: simplicity for those > who don't care about defining licenses, while allowing those who do to > choose a license appropriate for their goals. > > Gets my vote. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 13:03:34 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:03:34 -0700 Subject: "unsetting" behavior In-Reply-To: <7298743166.20130727152015@ahsoftware.net> References: <6397896766.20130727150608@ahsoftware.net> <7298743166.20130727152015@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Saturday, July 27, 2013, 3:14:53 PM, you wrote: > >> I'd have sworn I tried this and experimented with it . . . and here I >> am setting them every time cards load . . . > I do remember a bug with a previous version where the behavior wasn't > consistently persistent, but that got cleared up pretty quickly. I jumped from SuperCard 1.5 across 20 years to LiveCode 5.5, so that probably wasn't it :) However, this brings up another question. Long names are something like, btn "Fred" of card "Family" of stack "mySubStack" of stack "/Users/hawk/world.130801a.ivecode" Will such a name survive compiling to a standalone? Or even going from version 130801a in the filename to 130801b? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Thu Aug 1 13:32:06 2013 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 18:32:06 +0100 Subject: Submitting to Apple... at what size ? Message-ID: To those of you who have submitted iPad apps to Apple recently built with liveCode... What size did you build them at 1024 x 768... or 2048 x 1536 ? Has ayone suffered a rejection from submitting their iPad app to Apple at 1024 x 768 ? I would also like to hear what sizes people have been building their iPhone apps at as well...:-) From rman at free.fr Thu Aug 1 13:38:27 2013 From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA5E49.7010805@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1375378707303-4668232.post@n4.nabble.com> I totally agree with you :: things should be simple. Simple for us, simple for th experimented commercial developer helping us out, simple for Kevin, simple for the 12 yrs old newcomer, simple and clear for everybody := revOnline =equals= freely shared no strings attached. Full point. I believe though that in legal terms, a kind of license like 3commons.. "something has to express this clearly. I've always found strange to see "demos" of commercial product being uploaded. Let's keep things simple :: the length of that thread clearly shows that these license matters are not simple and.. quite complex when seen in a syst?mic view, asking what are the consequences of that license after a while.. once it has "viraled" into many other apps.. !! THere seems to be a good ab-initio cure to these silly "virals" :: free! no-strings. CC Hugh! -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/revOnline-and-Open-Source-tp4668100p4668232.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 14:22:50 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 21:22:50 +0300 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> On 08/01/2013 07:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > This is just awful and freudian at the same time. I did a double-take when > I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was > "revOnline and Open Sores" > > > LOL! The whole thing does look a bit like an Open Sore. Richmond. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 1 14:25:38 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 14:25:38 -0400 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> Message-ID: it's not the site, it was just the title of the thread and the strong reaction it seems to evoke. I don't use revOnline, so I can't comment on it. On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 08/01/2013 07:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> This is just awful and freudian at the same time. I did a double-take >> when >> I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was >> "revOnline and Open Sores" >> >> >> >> > LOL! The whole thing does look a bit like an Open Sore. > > > Richmond. > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 1 14:30:02 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:30:02 -0700 Subject: Open file with double click In-Reply-To: <51F9A508.7020805@economy-x-talk.com> References: <51F9A508.7020805@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Thanks for all the info Mark, I'll check it all out. Pete lcSQL Software On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > Hi Pete, > > Just a quick answer. You can set file associations for OSX in the OSX tab > of the standalone application settings window. Installer Maker manages the > file associations on Windows. I'm not sure how to do this in Linux, but I > think double-clicking an unassociated file in Ubuntu would show a window > with an option to choose an app. I think you can also set file associations > in a .desktop file, but I'm not sure how this works. > > On all desktop platforms, you can use $1 to determine if a file was > double-clicked to trigger the launch of the application. $1 contains the > file path. > > You need to check out the relaunch message in the docs. Create a relaunch > handler that doesn't return anything (or returns empty). You can also use > the relaunch message to open a document on Windows. > > On Mac OS X, you'd use apple events if an app is running already. > > Again, I'm not sure how this works on Linux. It should be possible for a > standalone to determine if a process is running already and somehow tell > that process to open a file. > > (As soon as I figure this out for Linux, I'll add it to Installer Maker). > > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/**xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour > spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" > http://qery.us/3fi > > Fill out this survey please > http://livecodebeginner.**economy-x-talk.com/survey/ > > > On 8/1/2013 01:47, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> Is it possible to associate a file extension with a standalone application >> so the standalone runs when a user double clicks on a file with the >> extension? Multiple file extensions? This would be for all three desktop >> platforms. >> Pete >> lcSQL Software >> > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 1 14:32:41 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:32:41 -0700 Subject: Open file with double click In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mike, I guess "me as a developer". I want to deliver a standalone that will start up on double click of an appropriate file without the end user needing to make the file association. Pete lcSQL Software On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > You as a developer, or you as a user? You as a user can just by > right-clicking on the file you want to open, and then picking "Open With" > (all three platforms). As a developer, see > > https://www.google.com/search?q=as+a+developer+how+do+I+get+my+file+types+associated+with+a+particular+application&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > Is it possible to associate a file extension with a standalone > application > > so the standalone runs when a user double clicks on a file with the > > extension? Multiple file extensions? This would be for all three > desktop > > platforms. > > Pete > > lcSQL Software > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 14:33:41 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 21:33:41 +0300 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> On 08/01/2013 09:25 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > it's not the site, it was just the title of the thread and the strong > reaction it seems to evoke. I don't use revOnline, so I can't comment on > it. Well, I started the thread, and the reaction was both amazing, and, I believe, healthy; surely the more people are involved in this sort of discussion the more chance there is of having some sort of consensus. If RunRev are presenting themselves as 'open', at least as far as their Open Source half is concerned, then this sort of discussion is necessary; and the thing that is really good is that Kevin Miller has become involved. Certainly, at the risk of sounding mind-bogglingly naive, I had always assumed that stuff available on revOnline was there for the taking; and when I uploaded stuff to the older version (now obviated) of revOnline I didn't bother about any licensing documents on the understanding that anybody who wanted could just help themselves to my code and get on with it. I have also been rather careful about the bits of code that are "mission critical" to my commercial product. Obviously things are not nearly so simple as I fondly imagined. What precipitated my starting this thread was my spotting, on revOnline, a color picker stack that DOES contain an explicit copyright statement. Richmond. > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Richmond wrote: > >> On 08/01/2013 07:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: >> >>> This is just awful and freudian at the same time. I did a double-take >>> when >>> I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was >>> "revOnline and Open Sores" >>> >>> >>> >>> >> LOL! The whole thing does look a bit like an Open Sore. >> >> >> Richmond. >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From cmsheffield at icloud.com Thu Aug 1 14:34:42 2013 From: cmsheffield at icloud.com (Chris Sheffield) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:34:42 -0600 Subject: Submitting to Apple... at what size ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For iPad, I've always built at 1024 x 768, simply because my iMac's screen doesn't easily accommodate the larger size. So that means that everything has to scale up when the app runs on the retina display. Usually this isn't a big deal, especially if you're using something like tmControl, MobGUI, or Monte's mApp plugin. I haven't had an app get rejected, but if I understand correctly, Apple does now require that apps natively support the retina display. So you can't just create an app at 1024 x 768 and let the OS scale it for you. It would look pretty cruddy. You have to make use of iphoneUseDeviceResolution and then scale your graphics up and make sure you have appropriately sized images. HTH, Chris -- Chris Sheffield Read Naturally, Inc. www.readnaturally.com On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:32 AM, John Dixon wrote: > To those of you who have submitted iPad apps to Apple recently built with liveCode... > > What size did you build them at 1024 x 768... or 2048 x 1536 ? > Has ayone suffered a rejection from submitting their iPad app to Apple at 1024 x 768 ? > > I would also like to hear what sizes people have been building their iPhone apps at as well...:-) > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Thu Aug 1 14:58:10 2013 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 19:58:10 +0100 Subject: Submitting to Apple... at what size ? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: No Chris... now you confuse me.., If as you suggest use 'iphoneUseDeviceResolution true, true' then run under retina, a stack buillt at 1024 will just take up the top-left corner of the screen... I asked this same question on the forum... 'Jacob' replied saying that he has just had an app accepted last night that was built at 1024 x 768... So, I guess the real question is are Apple being as 'hard-arsed' as people keep muttering ? > For iPad, I've always built at 1024 x 768, simply because my iMac's screen doesn't easily accommodate the larger size. So that means that everything has to scale up when the app runs on the retina display. Usually this isn't a big deal, especially if you're using something like tmControl, MobGUI, or Monte's mApp plugin. I haven't had an app get rejected, but if I understand correctly, Apple does now require that apps natively support the retina display. So you can't just create an app at 1024 x 768 and let the OS scale it for you. It would look pretty cruddy. You have to make use of iphoneUseDeviceResolution and then scale your graphics up and make sure you have appropriately sized images. > Chris Sheffield > Read Naturally, Inc. > www.readnaturally.com > > > > On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:32 AM, John Dixon wrote: > > > To those of you who have submitted iPad apps to Apple recently built with liveCode... > > > > What size did you build them at 1024 x 768... or 2048 x 1536 ? > > Has ayone suffered a rejection from submitting their iPad app to Apple at 1024 x 768 ? > > > > I would also like to hear what sizes people have been building their iPhone apps at as well...:-) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 1 15:05:49 2013 From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner is available again! In-Reply-To: <51F7E64B.8050405@economy-x-talk.com> References: <51F7E64B.8050405@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <1375383948970-4668240.post@n4.nabble.com> Its a great book. I've one or two comments about topics and treatment which are probably best sent direct. The thing it might be interesting to know how others feel about is physical. Is it possible to go to a stitched and not just a glued binding. I keep wanting to pin it open or spread it out flat, but am aware that this will just break the spine. Maybe its too expensive to go for stitched bindings? We have a series of cookbooks with stitched bindings for this very purpose, so you can leave them open at a page on the kitchen table, and it really helps. Its a great book in any case. One or two treatments that for the target audience could be made a little more accessible, but that's in the margin. A real contribution. If you have any bright technically interested young teenage relatives in need of intellectual stimulation, a copy of the OSS version and this would be a fine present. Who knows where it might lead. Old retired relatives in need of intellectual stimulation too! Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Programming-LiveCode-for-the-Real-Beginner-is-available-again-tp4668142p4668240.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From irog at mac.com Thu Aug 1 15:11:16 2013 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:11:16 -0700 Subject: Submitting to Apple... at what size ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <696E04E9-3694-4088-A3F0-5FA3CF1B6513@mac.com> My app was built at 1024 x 768 and I recently uploaded a revision at the same resolution. No problem?. Roger On Aug 1, 2013, at 10:32 AM, John Dixon wrote: > To those of you who have submitted iPad apps to Apple recently built with liveCode... > > What size did you build them at 1024 x 768... or 2048 x 1536 ? > Has ayone suffered a rejection from submitting their iPad app to Apple at 1024 x 768 ? > > I would also like to hear what sizes people have been building their iPhone apps at as well...:-) > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 1 15:17:08 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 20:17:08 +0100 (BST) Subject: Submitting to Apple... at what size ? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <1375384628.14133.YahooMailNeo@web28804.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> The only automated check that Apple are likely to do is ensure that you include the retina "splash screen" images in the bundle. ?Beyond that, it's down to a reviewer deciding that your graphics look low-res/poor quality on a retina display - I haven't heard of any rejections for that reason. From vclement at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 15:22:23 2013 From: vclement at gmail.com (Vaughn Clement) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:22:23 -0700 Subject: Submitting to Apple... at what size ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi John iTunes (Apple) app store submissions are a mine field for developers. When I started submissions in 2008 the review process was like standing in front of a firing squad. After several battles with the Review team I found that they are just doing what their told. So, I found that you can ask for a manager to contact you when the review process is unfair or is not clear as to why you get rejections. The appeal process is sometimes fair (ha) and sometimes stupid for the reasons why the reject apps. Most recently developer support has improved and you get less runarounds. What does this have to do with your questions, Well not alot just wanted to point out to ask for a manager when the review is unfair. The answer to your question/s on screen sizes: Table 7-8 Upload file sizes and format descriptions In Xcode Organizer documentation search for iPad screen; click on iPad item at the top of the list, then scroll down to the Table 7-8 for a full description of the size data your looking for. Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 11:58 AM, John Dixon wrote: > No Chris... now you confuse me.., If as you suggest use > 'iphoneUseDeviceResolution true, true' then run under retina, a stack > buillt at 1024 will just take up the top-left corner of the screen... > > I asked this same question on the forum... 'Jacob' replied saying that he > has just had an app accepted last night that was built at 1024 x 768... > > So, I guess the real question is are Apple being as 'hard-arsed' as people > keep muttering ? > > > > For iPad, I've always built at 1024 x 768, simply because my iMac's > screen doesn't easily accommodate the larger size. So that means that > everything has to scale up when the app runs on the retina display. Usually > this isn't a big deal, especially if you're using something like tmControl, > MobGUI, or Monte's mApp plugin. I haven't had an app get rejected, but if I > understand correctly, Apple does now require that apps natively support the > retina display. So you can't just create an app at 1024 x 768 and let the > OS scale it for you. It would look pretty cruddy. You have to make use of > iphoneUseDeviceResolution and then scale your graphics up and make sure you > have appropriately sized images. > > > Chris Sheffield > > Read Naturally, Inc. > > www.readnaturally.com > > > > > > > > On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:32 AM, John Dixon wrote: > > > > > To those of you who have submitted iPad apps to Apple recently built > with liveCode... > > > > > > What size did you build them at 1024 x 768... or 2048 x 1536 ? > > > Has ayone suffered a rejection from submitting their iPad app to Apple > at 1024 x 768 ? > > > > > > I would also like to hear what sizes people have been building their > iPhone apps at as well...:-) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From andrew at ctech.me Thu Aug 1 16:22:42 2013 From: andrew at ctech.me (Andrew Kluthe) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:22:42 -0500 Subject: exit repeat and nested repeats Message-ID: How does exit repeat handle nested repeats? Does it exit the parent repeat if called from a child repeat in two repeats that are nested in a handler? repeat for each key sKey in sData repeat for each key sKey2 in sData[sKey] exit repeat end repeat end repeat -- Regards, Andrew Kluthe andrew at ctech.me From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 1 16:26:39 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 13:26:39 -0700 Subject: Persistent LC server? In-Reply-To: <3C13BDC3-584D-4C50-A7F6-80A05463A331@gmail.com> References: <3C13BDC3-584D-4C50-A7F6-80A05463A331@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51FAC47F.6000408@fourthworld.com> Peter W A Wood wrote: > Richard > > On 1 Aug 2013, at 11:34, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> The trick here is that LC Server is designed to run as a CGI; > that is, the process is born, lives, and dies in the time it > takes to satisfy a request. > > It is your choice whether to run LC Server as a CGI or not: > > Schulz:LiveCodeServer peter$ cat > hr.lc > put "Hello Richard. No CGI here" > ?> > > > Schulz:LiveCodeServer peter$ ./livecode-server hr.lc > Hello Richard. No CGI here > > You should be able to run the same code as you would run using the > Desktop version save for the GUI. I guess the pitfall of this > approach is that you can only handle one request at a time. There's a second pitfall, which is critical for my situation: My goal is to have my program return values from an array. This would mean, of course, that the program instance never quits. I've been experimenting with key-values stores on disk as an alternative, and have the time down to 0.2ms so I may not spend much time with this array notion going forward. Still, there may be other cases where using LC as a faceless daemon may be useful, so hopefully one of us will get some time to explore that one day. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 1 16:27:41 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:27:41 +1000 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <1375364702.26319.YahooMailNeo@web28804.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <51FA5E49.7010805@fourthworld.com> <1375364702.26319.YahooMailNeo@web28804.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <488C02E2-3A9B-4193-B0F1-EE64BBE55823@sweattechnologies.com> On 01/08/2013, at 11:45 PM, Mark Wilcox wrote: > 1) CC0 - the creative commons public domain equivalent with fallbacks (you can't give up your rights to your work in the same ways everywhere in the world) is better for software than a simple public domain declaration. Yes, unlike other CC licenses CC0 is recommended for software. > 2) You'd do this by making it part of the terms and conditions of use. I'm not at all sure about the legality of retrospectively applying it to content that's already been uploaded without explicit permission, even if you broadcast a change to the T's & C's. What fraction of the content is regularly updated? How complex would it be to get permission for the existing stuff? That said, only new stuff having an automatic CC0 license would be much better than doing nothing. What I'd like to see is a license picker as part of the upload process with the option to enter your own. The chosen license is then displayed where you might download the stack. All current stacks just get listed as unspecified license until owners update them. This whole topic has made me wonder if revOnline handles password protected stacks in community nicely... it should probably state that the stack is password protected and only available so download in commercial. Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 1 16:30:10 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 13:30:10 -0700 Subject: exit repeat and nested repeats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FAC552.2040501@fourthworld.com> Andrew Kluthe wrote: > How does exit repeat handle nested repeats? Does it exit the parent repeat > if called from a child repeat in two repeats that are nested in a handler? > > repeat for each key sKey in sData > repeat for each key sKey2 in sData[sKey] > exit repeat > end repeat > end repeat "Exit repeat" exits only the loop that statement is in. You can exit to handler with "exit , or exit all script execution with "exit to top". But if you need to exit a specific repeat structure, you'll have to add an "exit repeat" for each level you want to exit. At once of the RevCons a few years ago Robert Cailliau proposed adding an option to name repeats so we can exit any of them from any level. Might be nice to see that one day. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 1 16:31:02 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:31:02 +1000 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: References: <51FA5E49.7010805@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3A68746A-D42A-4514-9B0C-A384784D5183@sweattechnologies.com> On 02/08/2013, at 2:58 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > The whole point of revOnline is to freely and openly share code with no > strings attached. If that's not what you want to do, then you should find > a location that is more appropriate to your objectives. Hmm... Mark Wieder said he puts demos of his commercial plugins on there I guess that rules that out. Actually it rules lots of stuff out. -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From devin_asay at byu.edu Thu Aug 1 16:33:11 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 20:33:11 +0000 Subject: exit repeat and nested repeats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7FF446F7-33E4-4885-93D9-0E509DDF3593@byu.edu> On Aug 1, 2013, at 2:22 PM, Andrew Kluthe wrote: > How does exit repeat handle nested repeats? Does it exit the parent repeat > if called from a child repeat in two repeats that are nested in a handler? > > repeat for each key sKey in sData > repeat for each key sKey2 in sData[sKey] > exit repeat > end repeat > end repeat It should only exit the child. Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 1 16:33:32 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 15:33:32 -0500 Subject: [OT] Need a simple FileMaker script Message-ID: <51FAC61C.5000009@hyperactivesw.com> This seems like it shouldn't be too hard, but I don't know FileMaker. Does anyone know how to: 1. Get the text in one cell 2. Concatenate the first 5 characters (or as many as exist) of the first 3 words 3. Put the value into another cell Do that for every record. So, if the text in cell A5 is "Every good boy does fine", cell A6 would contain "EveryGoodBoy". -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From heather at runrev.com Thu Aug 1 16:40:35 2013 From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Laine) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 21:40:35 +0100 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> Call me naive but.. if you don't want to share your code, why on earth would you upload it to revOnline? Its kinda like painting a picture, hanging it on the wall, and then telling folks, hey, thats my picture, don't look at it! I've nothing against people protecting their code if they want to. It's theirs. But if they upload it, openly, to a shared site? what do they expect people to do with it? I'm open to being educated. Maybe there is some reason someone would do this. I just ? don't get it. Certainly, that was the original rationale behind providing the revOnline site. To allow users to share their code and their expertise with others, if they chose to do so. This community has always been amazingly sharing and helpful to each other. This is my personal opinion. I am not a lawyer. It does not represent any official position at RunRev. Regards, Heather On 1 Aug 2013, at 19:33, Richmond wrote: > > On 08/01/2013 09:25 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: >> it's not the site, it was just the title of the thread and the strong >> reaction it seems to evoke. I don't use revOnline, so I can't comment on >> it. > > Well, I started the thread, and the reaction was both amazing, and, I believe, healthy; surely the more people > are involved in this sort of discussion the more chance there is of having some sort of consensus. > > If RunRev are presenting themselves as 'open', at least as far as their Open Source half is concerned, then > this sort of discussion is necessary; and the thing that is really good is that Kevin Miller has become involved. > > Certainly, at the risk of sounding mind-bogglingly naive, I had always assumed that stuff available on revOnline > was there for the taking; and when I uploaded stuff to the older version (now obviated) of revOnline > I didn't bother about any licensing documents on the understanding that anybody who wanted could just help themselves to my code and get on with it. > > I have also been rather careful about the bits of code that are "mission critical" to my commercial product. > > Obviously things are not nearly so simple as I fondly imagined. > > What precipitated my starting this thread was my spotting, on revOnline, a color picker stack that > DOES contain an explicit copyright statement. > > Richmond. > >> >> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >>> On 08/01/2013 07:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: >>> >>>> This is just awful and freudian at the same time. I did a double-take >>>> when >>>> I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was >>>> "revOnline and Open Sores" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> LOL! The whole thing does look a bit like an Open Sore. >>> >>> >>> Richmond. >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Heather Laine Customer Services Manager http://www.livecode.com/ From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 1 16:41:29 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 22:41:29 +0200 Subject: exit repeat and nested repeats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FAC7F9.3060708@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Andrew, You can use a variable if you want to exit all repeat loops: repeat for each key sKey in sData repeat for each key sKey2 in sData[sKey] put true into myExitAll exit repeat end repeat if myExitAll then exit repeat end if end repeat Or use a separate handler: on twoRepeatLoops repeat for each key sKey in sData repeat for each key sKey2 in sData[sKey] exit twoRepeatLoops end repeat end repeat end twoRepeatLoops -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/1/2013 22:22, Andrew Kluthe wrote: > How does exit repeat handle nested repeats? Does it exit the parent repeat > if called from a child repeat in two repeats that are nested in a handler? > > repeat for each key sKey in sData > repeat for each key sKey2 in sData[sKey] > exit repeat > end repeat > end repeat > > > From andrew at ctech.me Thu Aug 1 16:43:28 2013 From: andrew at ctech.me (Andrew Kluthe) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:43:28 -0500 Subject: exit repeat and nested repeats In-Reply-To: <51FAC7F9.3060708@economy-x-talk.com> References: <51FAC7F9.3060708@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Great, thanks for the info. I was trying to eliminate some problems from one of my data processing routines and I was trying to figure out if this could be to blame. It is not. This works as I expected to with the exit only affecting the repeat that contains it. Regards, Andrew On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > Hi Andrew, > > You can use a variable if you want to exit all repeat loops: > > > repeat for each key sKey in sData > repeat for each key sKey2 in sData[sKey] > put true into myExitAll > exit repeat > end repeat > if myExitAll then > exit repeat > end if > end repeat > > Or use a separate handler: > > on twoRepeatLoops > > repeat for each key sKey in sData > repeat for each key sKey2 in sData[sKey] > exit twoRepeatLoops > end repeat > end repeat > end twoRepeatLoops > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/**xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour > spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" > http://qery.us/3fi > > Fill out this survey please > http://livecodebeginner.**economy-x-talk.com/survey/ > > > On 8/1/2013 22:22, Andrew Kluthe wrote: > >> How does exit repeat handle nested repeats? Does it exit the parent repeat >> if called from a child repeat in two repeats that are nested in a handler? >> >> repeat for each key sKey in sData >> repeat for each key sKey2 in sData[sKey] >> exit repeat >> end repeat >> end repeat >> >> >> >> > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Regards, Andrew Kluthe andrew at ctech.me From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 1 16:44:47 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:44:47 +1000 Subject: Persistent LC server? In-Reply-To: <51FAC47F.6000408@fourthworld.com> References: <3C13BDC3-584D-4C50-A7F6-80A05463A331@gmail.com> <51FAC47F.6000408@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <897EEECE-2665-49F0-A5C1-9CDD62F8770F@sweattechnologies.com> On 02/08/2013, at 6:26 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > My goal is to have my program return values from an array. This would mean, of course, that the program instance never quits. Hi Richard I had a look at the engine code for you and I don't think you will get this to work without some modifications to the source. If you look at the server implementation of X_main_loop you will see that unlike all the other engines that repeatedly do stuff while the MCQuit flag is false the server engine just does it's stuff so it will naturally quit at the end. Is there a reason you couldn't use the -u flag on a regular standalone? My biggest question though is what event is triggered on the persistent server when you request some part of your array? LC Server scripts are basically just one big startup handler without the handler declaration. Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 16:47:03 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 13:47:03 -0700 Subject: loading time much faster on slower machine Message-ID: I have a quad-core 27" imac, about two years old, 16gb, spinning hard drive, and an i5 quad-core processor. This retina macbook has the same memory, a touch faster clock speed on an i7, and an SSD drive. It takes under two seconds for the desktop to load livecode 5.5.5 and my program, but several (enough to be annoyed and reopen a browser window) for the faster in every way retina. Any ideas why? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 1 16:47:27 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:47:27 +1000 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> Message-ID: <5D9F5F9B-0FBD-4841-9C6D-59B112B31112@sweattechnologies.com> On 02/08/2013, at 6:40 AM, Heather Laine wrote: > I've nothing against people protecting their code if they want to. It's theirs. But if they upload it, openly, to a shared site? what do they expect people to do with it? You do realise that all of RunRev's IP is openly uploaded to a shared site? What do you expect people to do with it? ;-) -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 1 16:53:04 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:53:04 +1000 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA37A4.6010305@economy-x-talk.com> <1375364116.2493.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 02/08/2013, at 12:25 AM, "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: > If they don't contain *any* code, I agree. If I designed such a file > format, it would only > have descriptions of what the user did, and would be pure ascii. > > I can't tell; there are certainly non-ascii characters in there, and I > just don't know what > they are. I *assume* that they're just part of the description . . . You are free to review the code that saves livecode files. -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 1 16:54:24 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 13:54:24 -0700 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> References: <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> Message-ID: <51FACB00.1080208@fourthworld.com> Heather Laine wrote: > Call me naive but.. if you don't want to share your code, why on > earth would you upload it to revOnline? There may be many reasons: - The stack may be a tutorial, and while the code techniques it describes may be shareable there may be libraries or other code driving the presentation may have been derived from a proprietary work. - The stack may be a demo of a proprietary work. - It may contain content which has restrictions on use. And with those for which the author did intend to share, what exactly do we mean by that? GPL? Apache? MIT? Public domain? Something else? Each type of sharing comes with its own rights and responsibilities. I like Kevin's suggestion of having a default of CC0 unless the author specifies their license, as it leaves everyone's options as open as anyone might want them. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 17:08:35 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 00:08:35 +0300 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> Message-ID: <51FACE53.9050102@gmail.com> On 08/01/2013 11:40 PM, Heather Laine wrote: > Call me naive but.. if you don't want to share your code, why on earth would you upload it to revOnline? Its kinda like painting a picture, hanging it on the wall, and then telling folks, hey, thats my picture, don't look at it! > > I've nothing against people protecting their code if they want to. It's theirs. But if they upload it, openly, to a shared site? what do they expect people to do with it? > > I'm open to being educated. Maybe there is some reason someone would do this. I just ? don't get it. Certainly, that was the original rationale behind providing the revOnline site. To allow users to share their code and their expertise with others, if they chose to do so. This community has always been amazingly sharing and helpful to each other. > > This is my personal opinion. I am not a lawyer. It does not represent any official position at RunRev. > > Regards, > > Heather Well said, Heather! > > On 1 Aug 2013, at 19:33, Richmond wrote: > >> On 08/01/2013 09:25 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: >>> it's not the site, it was just the title of the thread and the strong >>> reaction it seems to evoke. I don't use revOnline, so I can't comment on >>> it. >> Well, I started the thread, and the reaction was both amazing, and, I believe, healthy; surely the more people >> are involved in this sort of discussion the more chance there is of having some sort of consensus. >> >> If RunRev are presenting themselves as 'open', at least as far as their Open Source half is concerned, then >> this sort of discussion is necessary; and the thing that is really good is that Kevin Miller has become involved. >> >> Certainly, at the risk of sounding mind-bogglingly naive, I had always assumed that stuff available on revOnline >> was there for the taking; and when I uploaded stuff to the older version (now obviated) of revOnline >> I didn't bother about any licensing documents on the understanding that anybody who wanted could just help themselves to my code and get on with it. >> >> I have also been rather careful about the bits of code that are "mission critical" to my commercial product. >> >> Obviously things are not nearly so simple as I fondly imagined. >> >> What precipitated my starting this thread was my spotting, on revOnline, a color picker stack that >> DOES contain an explicit copyright statement. >> >> Richmond. >> >>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Richmond wrote: >>> >>>> On 08/01/2013 07:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>> >>>>> This is just awful and freudian at the same time. I did a double-take >>>>> when >>>>> I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was >>>>> "revOnline and Open Sores" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> LOL! The whole thing does look a bit like an Open Sore. >>>> >>>> >>>> Richmond. >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > http://www.livecode.com/ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 1 17:21:46 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 14:21:46 -0700 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Heather Laine wrote: > Call me naive but.. if you don't want to share your code, why on earth > would you upload it to revOnline? Its kinda like painting a picture, > hanging it on the wall, and then telling folks, hey, thats my picture, > don't look at it! Thank you Heather! This whole discussion just emphasizes what a minefield licensing is and I for one would rather see revOnline used for things that have no licensing conditions so it's simple and straighforward. I don't know for sure but I'm pretty certain that was the original intent of revOnline. Pete lcSQL Software From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 17:22:26 2013 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:22:26 -0600 Subject: loading time much faster on slower machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Might be a strange question, but.. do you have an external (usb) drive hooked up to the faster machine and not the slower? If so, can you eject/remove the drive and try again? Also, you said 16gb on the old mac, are you talking of first load of LC and your program or subsequent? (making sure things aren't cached) I assume plenty of memory in the i7 too though so the cache thing is most likely NOT it anyway. Either way, i've seen quite dramatic pauses on all kinds of things when the my mac (i7, 16g, server configuration mac mini) when I have a usb drive hooked up and something decides it needs to wake up before continuing. Unplug, and things fly. Plug it back in, wait a while, start something and.. delay. On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > I have a quad-core 27" imac, about two years old, 16gb, spinning hard > drive, and an i5 quad-core processor. > > This retina macbook has the same memory, a touch faster clock speed on > an i7, and an SSD drive. > > It takes under two seconds for the desktop to load livecode 5.5.5 and > my program, but several (enough to be annoyed and reopen a browser > window) for the faster in every way retina. > > Any ideas why? > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 17:46:12 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 14:46:12 -0700 Subject: loading time much faster on slower machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Might be a strange question, but.. do you have an external (usb) drive > hooked up to the faster machine and not the slower? Nope. The only thing connected is the same model of external monitor as is on the slower machine. And this happens with it disconnected as well. > Also, you said 16gb on the old mac, > are you talking of first load of LC and your program or subsequent? > (making sure things aren't cached) I assume plenty of memory in the i7 > too though so the cache thing is most likely NOT it anyway. Not that; both are 16Gb, and this is the first, seventh, and what-have-you. (with strict compilation on, loading and unloading is quite common, as it chokes thinking variables are shadowing themselves. Sometimes removing from memory is enough). -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 17:50:29 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 14:50:29 -0700 Subject: setting existing customproperties Message-ID: I've been setting custom properties of fields willy-nilly for some time now without a problem. I tried on stacks today, and failed. Reading the dictionary, it appears that I should be using an array. Is being able to set a custom property of a field a bug, or am I missing something here? (e.g., I have some fields with a custom "textClr" property from typos . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 17:57:21 2013 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:57:21 -0600 Subject: loading time much faster on slower machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well I guess the next thing i'd be wondering about is if spotlight has decided to go into perpetual indexing mode. Have seen this before, don't recall how I fixed it though. Some command line thing that basically tells it to wipe out the current spotlight database and rebuild, but wouldn't do this unless you're sure spotlight is stuck. /shrug On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > Might be a strange question, but.. do you have an external (usb) drive > > hooked up to the faster machine and not the slower? > > Nope. The only thing connected is the same model of external monitor > as is on the > slower machine. And this happens with it disconnected as well. > > > Also, you said 16gb on the old mac, > > are you talking of first load of LC and your program or subsequent? > > (making sure things aren't cached) I assume plenty of memory in the i7 > > too though so the cache thing is most likely NOT it anyway. > > Not that; both are 16Gb, and this is the first, seventh, and > what-have-you. (with > strict compilation on, loading and unloading is quite common, as it > chokes thinking > variables are shadowing themselves. Sometimes removing from memory is > enough). > > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 17:59:30 2013 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:59:30 -0600 Subject: loading time much faster on slower machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hmm actually do you have anything pegging a core at 100%? Check activity monitor and see. Not only would that slow things down, it might cause enough heat for a throttle. On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Well I guess the next thing i'd be wondering about is if spotlight has > decided to go into perpetual indexing mode. Have seen this before, don't > recall how I fixed it though. Some command line thing that basically tells > it to wipe out the current spotlight database and rebuild, but wouldn't do > this unless you're sure spotlight is stuck. /shrug > > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > >> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: >> > Might be a strange question, but.. do you have an external (usb) drive >> > hooked up to the faster machine and not the slower? >> >> Nope. The only thing connected is the same model of external monitor >> as is on the >> slower machine. And this happens with it disconnected as well. >> >> > Also, you said 16gb on the old mac, >> > are you talking of first load of LC and your program or subsequent? >> > (making sure things aren't cached) I assume plenty of memory in the i7 >> > too though so the cache thing is most likely NOT it anyway. >> >> Not that; both are 16Gb, and this is the first, seventh, and >> what-have-you. (with >> strict compilation on, loading and unloading is quite common, as it >> chokes thinking >> variables are shadowing themselves. Sometimes removing from memory is >> enough). >> >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. >> (702) 508-8462 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From dunbarx at aol.com Thu Aug 1 18:03:30 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 18:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: setting existing customproperties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D05D1A1726E32A-22C4-1A609@webmail-d215.sysops.aol.com> Richard. Something amiss. Setting and getting custom properties of fields is unremarkable. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Hawkins To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Thu, Aug 1, 2013 5:50 pm Subject: setting existing customproperties I've been setting custom properties of fields willy-nilly for some time now without a problem. I tried on stacks today, and failed. Reading the dictionary, it appears that I should be using an array. Is being able to set a custom property of a field a bug, or am I missing something here? (e.g., I have some fields with a custom "textClr" property from typos . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 1 18:05:48 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 17:05:48 -0500 Subject: setting existing customproperties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FADBBC.8080008@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/1/13 4:50 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > I've been setting custom properties of fields willy-nilly for some > time now without a problem. > > I tried on stacks today, and failed. > > Reading the dictionary, it appears that I should be using an array. > > Is being able to set a custom property of a field a bug, or am I > missing something here? > > (e.g., I have some fields with a custom "textClr" property from typos . . . > I set properties on stacks all the time, it works exactly like setting them on a field or any other object. You don't need to use an array unless you want to store an actual array without combining it first. What happened when it failed? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacques.hausser at unil.ch Thu Aug 1 18:30:16 2013 From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:30:16 +0200 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> Message-ID: <920192E4-B85D-4507-8BD5-CFA9324D879E@unil.ch> Why is it so complicate nowadays to remain simple ? Jacques From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 1 19:04:34 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:04:34 -0700 Subject: [OT] Need a simple FileMaker script In-Reply-To: <51FAC61C.5000009@hyperactivesw.com> References: <51FAC61C.5000009@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <100165529688.20130801160434@ahsoftware.net> Jacque- Thursday, August 1, 2013, 1:33:32 PM, you wrote: > Does anyone know how to: > 1. Get the text in one cell > 2. Concatenate the first 5 characters (or as many as exist) of the first > 3 words > 3. Put the value into another cell I don't have the answer for you, but those are pretty weird requirements. It looks like you are trying to construct a unique identifier for a record from data in that record, which is Not A Good Idea. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 1 19:07:00 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:07:00 -0700 Subject: setting existing customproperties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > (e.g., I have some fields with a custom "textClr" property from typos . . . Alex Tweedly's explicitProperties plugin will help protect you from misspelled custom property names. Pete lcSQL Software From vclement at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 19:49:04 2013 From: vclement at gmail.com (Vaughn Clement) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:49:04 -0700 Subject: [OT] Need a simple FileMaker script In-Reply-To: <51FAC61C.5000009@hyperactivesw.com> References: <51FAC61C.5000009@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi Jacque Actually it is very much the same as LiveCode Field Name1&" "&Field Name2 this will concatenate two fields. into a new calculation field where the results are shown. Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 1:33 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > This seems like it shouldn't be too hard, but I don't know FileMaker. Does > anyone know how to: > > 1. Get the text in one cell > 2. Concatenate the first 5 characters (or as many as exist) of the first 3 > words > 3. Put the value into another cell > > Do that for every record. > > So, if the text in cell A5 is "Every good boy does fine", cell A6 would > contain "EveryGoodBoy". > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 19:57:17 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:57:17 -0700 Subject: setting existing customproperties In-Reply-To: <51FADBBC.8080008@hyperactivesw.com> References: <51FADBBC.8080008@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:05 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I set properties on stacks all the time, it works exactly like setting them > on a field or any other object. You don't need to use an array unless you > want to store an actual array without combining it first. > > What happened when it failed? Umm, now I think it worked :) I watched in the property inspector, but apparently I have to leave that view for the inspector to actually show the change. Well, *that* is an hour or two of wasted time (but it improved some other code while I was at it). Thanks to all hawk, off to bang his head on the corner -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 20:00:05 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 17:00:05 -0700 Subject: loading time much faster on slower machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Hmm actually do you have anything pegging a core at 100%? Check activity > monitor and see. Not only would that slow things down, it might cause > enough heat for a throttle. They all show low; 93% idle. For many years, xload was part of my standard display. Hmm, about the *only* thing I launched as a widget :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 20:19:33 2013 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 18:19:33 -0600 Subject: loading time much faster on slower machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah well. I give. If you find a solution let me know, i'm curious now. On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > Hmm actually do you have anything pegging a core at 100%? Check activity > > monitor and see. Not only would that slow things down, it might cause > > enough heat for a throttle. > > They all show low; 93% idle. > > For many years, xload was part of my standard display. Hmm, about the > *only* thing I launched as a widget :) > > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 1 20:46:50 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 17:46:50 -0700 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <920192E4-B85D-4507-8BD5-CFA9324D879E@unil.ch> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> <920192E4-B85D-4507-8BD5-CFA9324D879E@unil.ch> Message-ID: Read "Simplexity" by Jeoffrey Kluger.... Pete lcSQL Software On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Jacques Hausser wrote: > Why is it so complicate nowadays to remain simple ? > > Jacques > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 1 20:50:56 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 17:50:56 -0700 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <920192E4-B85D-4507-8BD5-CFA9324D879E@unil.ch> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> <920192E4-B85D-4507-8BD5-CFA9324D879E@unil.ch> Message-ID: ...or "Wrong" by David Freedman. Slightly different focus - it's about why experts are very frequently wrong. Pete lcSQL Software On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Jacques Hausser wrote: > Why is it so complicate nowadays to remain simple ? > > Jacques > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 22:01:12 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 21:01:12 -0500 Subject: [OT] Need a simple FileMaker script In-Reply-To: <51FAC61C.5000009@hyperactivesw.com> References: <51FAC61C.5000009@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: You don't need a script for this unless you want to do it repeatedly, say for different sets of data or whatever. If you just want to do this right now for whatever set of records you're looking at: 1. Find the records you want to update. If all of them, then Show All Records on the Records menu. 2. Click in the field you want to update (in your case A6). It doesn't matter which record you're in. 3. Select Replace Field Contents... on the Records menu. 4. In the dialog, click the radio button next to Replace with calculated result: (or click the Specify button next to it) 5. In the Specify Calculation dialog, paste this text into the calculation entry field (big white box at the bottom): Left ( LeftWords ( source ; 1 ) ; 5 ) & Left ( MiddleWords ( source ; 2 ; 1 ) ; 5) & Left ( MiddleWords ( source ; 3 ; 1 ) ; 5) This assumes the name of the field with the words you want is "source". For your example with A5 it would be: Left ( LeftWords ( A5 ; 1 ) ; 5 ) & Left ( MiddleWords ( A5 ; 2 ; 1 ) ; 5) & Left ( MiddleWords ( A5 ; 3 ; 1 ) ; 5) 6. Click OK to close the Specify Calculation dialog. 7. Click Replace. You're done. If you need this to always be the case, change A6 to a calculation field and use the above calculation as its definition. If you don't need to search it, you can set it as unstored and it won't take any space. If you need to do this for different sets of records, save it as a script step to apply later. On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:33 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > This seems like it shouldn't be too hard, but I don't know FileMaker. Does > anyone know how to: > > 1. Get the text in one cell > 2. Concatenate the first 5 characters (or as many as exist) of the first 3 > words > 3. Put the value into another cell > > Do that for every record. > > So, if the text in cell A5 is "Every good boy does fine", cell A6 would > contain "EveryGoodBoy". > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From vclement at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 22:51:06 2013 From: vclement at gmail.com (Vaughn Clement) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 19:51:06 -0700 Subject: [OT] Need a simple FileMaker script In-Reply-To: References: <51FAC61C.5000009@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi Geoff, & Mark The key word was concatenate which is a FileMaker calculation. If he asked for a find and replace as you answered the process is a one time exercise. A typical usage of concatenation is where dissimilar entries are in a set of fields. For example; when you import data like a first and last name in 2 different fields and you want to join them into one field. Keeping in mind each set of fields contain different text values. The calculation will easily and quickly process the fields in a join. In the example I provided the open quotes provided a space between the 2 joined text values. Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > You don't need a script for this unless you want to do it repeatedly, say > for different sets of data or whatever. If you just want to do this right > now for whatever set of records you're looking at: > > 1. Find the records you want to update. If all of them, then Show All > Records on the Records menu. > 2. Click in the field you want to update (in your case A6). It doesn't > matter which record you're in. > 3. Select Replace Field Contents... on the Records menu. > 4. In the dialog, click the radio button next to Replace with calculated > result: (or click the Specify button next to it) > 5. In the Specify Calculation dialog, paste this text into the calculation > entry field (big white box at the bottom): > > Left ( LeftWords ( source ; 1 ) ; 5 ) & Left ( MiddleWords ( source ; 2 ; 1 > ) ; 5) & Left ( MiddleWords ( source ; 3 ; 1 ) ; 5) > > This assumes the name of the field with the words you want is "source". For > your example with A5 it would be: > > Left ( LeftWords ( A5 ; 1 ) ; 5 ) & Left ( MiddleWords ( A5 ; 2 ; 1 ) ; 5) > & Left ( MiddleWords ( A5 ; 3 ; 1 ) ; 5) > > 6. Click OK to close the Specify Calculation dialog. > 7. Click Replace. > > You're done. > > If you need this to always be the case, change A6 to a calculation field > and use the above calculation as its definition. If you don't need to > search it, you can set it as unstored and it won't take any space. > > If you need to do this for different sets of records, save it as a script > step to apply later. > > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:33 PM, J. Landman Gay >wrote: > > > This seems like it shouldn't be too hard, but I don't know FileMaker. > Does > > anyone know how to: > > > > 1. Get the text in one cell > > 2. Concatenate the first 5 characters (or as many as exist) of the first > 3 > > words > > 3. Put the value into another cell > > > > Do that for every record. > > > > So, if the text in cell A5 is "Every good boy does fine", cell A6 would > > contain "EveryGoodBoy". > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode< > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mpetrides at earthlink.net Thu Aug 1 23:24:20 2013 From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides MD) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 23:24:20 -0400 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> Message-ID: <7A3DA5A6-2CD9-4C6E-8147-755C38EF5475@earthlink.net> Heather, I'm a late comer to this discussion so I might have missed a crucial piece. However, I can conceive of situation in which I might freely share something I've written, e. g. a lecture, but include a copyright notice to forestall someone else using my work verbatim (or nearly so) and passing it off as their own. In fact, I've always included a copyright notice in any handout I've passed out at any lecture I've given. I'd be delighted if people would share my work--as written and with proper attribution. OTOH, I would be seriously annoyed to find large chunks of my work in someone else's textbook. It seems to me that this is analogous to the situation you and earlier posters have described. Does this make sense? Marian Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2013, at 4:40 PM, Heather Laine wrote: > Call me naive but.. if you don't want to share your code, why on earth would you upload it to revOnline? Its kinda like painting a picture, hanging it on the wall, and then telling folks, hey, thats my picture, don't look at it! > > I've nothing against people protecting their code if they want to. It's theirs. But if they upload it, openly, to a shared site? what do they expect people to do with it? > > I'm open to being educated. Maybe there is some reason someone would do this. I just ? don't get it. Certainly, that was the original rationale behind providing the revOnline site. To allow users to share their code and their expertise with others, if they chose to do so. This community has always been amazingly sharing and helpful to each other. > > This is my personal opinion. I am not a lawyer. It does not represent any official position at RunRev. > > Regards, > > Heather > > On 1 Aug 2013, at 19:33, Richmond wrote: > >> >> On 08/01/2013 09:25 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: >>> it's not the site, it was just the title of the thread and the strong >>> reaction it seems to evoke. I don't use revOnline, so I can't comment on >>> it. >> >> Well, I started the thread, and the reaction was both amazing, and, I believe, healthy; surely the more people >> are involved in this sort of discussion the more chance there is of having some sort of consensus. >> >> If RunRev are presenting themselves as 'open', at least as far as their Open Source half is concerned, then >> this sort of discussion is necessary; and the thing that is really good is that Kevin Miller has become involved. >> >> Certainly, at the risk of sounding mind-bogglingly naive, I had always assumed that stuff available on revOnline >> was there for the taking; and when I uploaded stuff to the older version (now obviated) of revOnline >> I didn't bother about any licensing documents on the understanding that anybody who wanted could just help themselves to my code and get on with it. >> >> I have also been rather careful about the bits of code that are "mission critical" to my commercial product. >> >> Obviously things are not nearly so simple as I fondly imagined. >> >> What precipitated my starting this thread was my spotting, on revOnline, a color picker stack that >> DOES contain an explicit copyright statement. >> >> Richmond. >> >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Richmond wrote: >>> >>>> On 08/01/2013 07:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>> >>>>> This is just awful and freudian at the same time. I did a double-take >>>>> when >>>>> I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was >>>>> "revOnline and Open Sores" >>>> LOL! The whole thing does look a bit like an Open Sore. >>>> >>>> >>>> Richmond. >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > http://www.livecode.com/ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 1 23:31:22 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 22:31:22 -0500 Subject: setting existing customproperties In-Reply-To: References: <51FADBBC.8080008@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <51FB280A.2080303@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/1/13 6:57 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > I watched in the property inspector, but apparently I have to leave > that view for the inspector to actually show the change. Oh that. Yeah. No dynamic updating. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 1 23:50:14 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 22:50:14 -0500 Subject: [OT] Need a simple FileMaker script In-Reply-To: References: <51FAC61C.5000009@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <51FB2C76.2080403@hyperactivesw.com> Thanks all, I'll pass this on. It's not for me, I don't even own FM. Geoff had it right, I was using the word "concatenate" in the LiveCode sense since I don't know any better. The script needs to combine the first few letters of the words in a single cell. Mark, we're not trying to create unique identifiers. I only mention that so you won't worry about me. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Aug 2 00:06:38 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 23:06:38 -0500 Subject: [semi-OT] Anyone have experience with flow-based programming? Message-ID: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/noflo/noflo-development-environment $100K kickstarter, with stretch goals for other languages up to $1 million. I'm puzzled because as far as I can see, it's a graphical representation of functions, specifically with a visual representation of input and output connectors, and often visual controls for adjusting inputs to the function (color pickers, sliders, etc.), and lines connecting the functions' outputs to inputs, in order to make something happen. Admittedly pretty cool examples are here , and here, but still, this feels like something a group of us could rough up in LC in a caffeine-fueled weekend. Or am I under-thinking this? From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 2 01:17:09 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:17:09 -0700 Subject: [semi-OT] Anyone have experience with flow-based programming? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11187885327.20130801221709@ahsoftware.net> Geoff- https://code.google.com/p/blockly/ -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From heather at runrev.com Fri Aug 2 03:16:18 2013 From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Laine) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:16:18 +0100 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <5D9F5F9B-0FBD-4841-9C6D-59B112B31112@sweattechnologies.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> <5D9F5F9B-0FBD-4841-9C6D-59B112B31112@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <5D2492C0-F6BD-47BA-9376-339E09994621@runrev.com> :) Yes Monte, I do. I expect them to use it - according to the clearly defined terms of the accompanying license. LiveCode's IDE has always been open and available for people to use, copy and learn from. I guess I shouldn't post late in the evening without due thought and consideration. I think the word "openly" deserves a touch more clarification. If you include a copyright notice, or a license under which the item may be used, folks should respect that. Marian - I'm not sure if code is analogous to, say, a lecture. If someone publishes a piece of code that does a specific thing well, and I want to do that specific thing, does it make sense for me to rewrite the code (thus probably introducing errors and unexpected behaviour) or simply copy that code and use it to do that specific thing? Assuming the code is openly published (see definition of openly, above). It is probably only polite in this situation to express thanks to the person who created the code, and I frequently see people do exactly this in the about screen of their apps. Anyway. | think I had best bow out of this conversation, and let you guys settle it. Regards, Heather On 1 Aug 2013, at 21:47, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 02/08/2013, at 6:40 AM, Heather Laine wrote: > >> I've nothing against people protecting their code if they want to. It's theirs. But if they upload it, openly, to a shared site? what do they expect people to do with it? > > You do realise that all of RunRev's IP is openly uploaded to a shared site? What do you expect people to do with it? ;-) > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Heather Laine Customer Services Manager http://www.livecode.com/ From calhorner at xtra.co.nz Fri Aug 2 03:17:52 2013 From: calhorner at xtra.co.nz (Cal Horner) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 19:17:52 +1200 (New Zealand Standard Time) Subject: The wonderful, bog standard Answer dialog Message-ID: <51FB5D10.000007.05692@CALS_BIG_PC> Simple question: If you can do this, "set the backgroundcolor of stack "Answer Dialog" to whatever." Why can't you do this? "set the location stack "Answer Dialog" to whatever." From neil at runrev.com Fri Aug 2 03:47:09 2013 From: neil at runrev.com (Neil Roger) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:47:09 +0100 Subject: The wonderful, bog standard Answer dialog In-Reply-To: <51FB5D10.000007.05692@CALS_BIG_PC> References: <51FB5D10.000007.05692@CALS_BIG_PC> Message-ID: <51FB63FD.3000308@runrev.com> Dear Cal Homer, By default, the Answer Dialog is programatically set to display in a set position depending on the size of the screen. You will be able to adjust the position of the dialog box by using the suspendStack message. This is a message that is sent when something makes its stack no longer the active window.. The following code is something that could be used- on suspendStack if "answer dialog" is among the lines of the openStacks then set the topLeft of stack "answer dialog" to 250,300 end if end suspendStack A list discussion on this can be viewed here- http://search.gmane.org/search.php?group=gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user&query=location+answer+dialog Kind Regards, Neil Roger, -- RunRev Support Team ~ http://www.runrev.com -- On 02/08/2013 08:17, Cal Horner wrote: > Simple question: > > If you can do this, > "set the backgroundcolor of stack "Answer Dialog" to whatever." > > Why can't you do this? > > "set the location stack "Answer Dialog" to whatever." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 2 04:03:21 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 18:03:21 +1000 Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <5D2492C0-F6BD-47BA-9376-339E09994621@runrev.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> <5D9F5F9B-0FBD-4841-9C6D-59B112B31112@sweattechnologies.com> <5D2492C0-F6BD-47BA-9376-339E09994621@runrev.com> Message-ID: <068D943B-9822-43AC-B086-19485255641E@sweattechnologies.com> It's nice when you guys get involved. I totally agree with the logic behind what you said by the way. Unfortunately this stuff isn't as logical as we often assume it is ;-) -- M E R Goulding Software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! On 02/08/2013, at 5:16 PM, Heather Laine wrote: > Anyway. | think I had best bow out of this conversation, and let you guys settle it. From alex at tweedly.net Fri Aug 2 04:43:51 2013 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:43:51 +0100 Subject: Scrolling on Mac OS X : groups vs fields Message-ID: <51FB7147.1030301@tweedly.net> On OSX (10.8.4, MBP - but I doubt that matters), I can scroll using a two-finger touch (i.e. if the cursor is within an area that is scrollable, then generally I can touch with two fingers, and 'push up' or 'pull down' the window contents. This includes LC fields - this scrolling "just works" for them. If I create a group, set and lock its position and give it a scrollbar, then it gets the scrollbar, and all the traditional behaviour associated with that (i.e. the scrollbar can be dragged, etc.) But it doesn't automatically get the two-finger touch behaviour. Is there some way I can enable that ? Do I need to program this myself ? It looks as though the "touchStart, touchEnd, etc. are implemented on mobile only, so I'm not sure where to start. Thanks -- Alex. From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Fri Aug 2 04:53:17 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:53:17 +0100 (BST) Subject: revOnline and Open Source In-Reply-To: <068D943B-9822-43AC-B086-19485255641E@sweattechnologies.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA7F10.8050000@gmail.com> <1375373203.35271.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <51FAA77A.8000807@gmail.com> <51FAAA05.5060300@gmail.com> <0C0EF696-528B-4E54-9186-93D5E2D959A1@runrev.com> <5D9F5F9B-0FBD-4841-9C6D-59B112B31112@sweattechnologies.com> <5D2492C0-F6BD-47BA-9376-339E09994621@runrev.com> <068D943B-9822-43AC-B086-19485255641E@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <1375433597.71629.YahooMailNeo@web28806.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Monte Goulding wrote: >>?It's nice when you guys get involved. I totally agree with the logic behind what you said by the way. Unfortunately this stuff isn't as logical as we often assume it is ;-) I also think the law in this area is bonkers and agree with the more common sense view of intellectual property Richmond and Heather are describing. ?However, it's also worth considering that something published without a license may not belong to the person who published it. ?It's also possible that someone would deliberately remove or change someone else's license but that would likely place most/all of the liability for subsequent infringement on them. If you're building a business around some code, or building apps for others who are, then you need to be certain you have the right to distribute (and usually modify) all of the code you use. ?The flip side to that is anyone publishing code that's happy for others to use it in that way needs to explicitly state that with a license. I do think there's a place for anyone that facilitates code sharing to help raise awareness and make it easy for people to do the right thing. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 2 05:14:33 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 12:14:33 +0300 Subject: The wonderful, bog standard Answer dialog In-Reply-To: <51FB5D10.000007.05692@CALS_BIG_PC> References: <51FB5D10.000007.05692@CALS_BIG_PC> Message-ID: <51FB7879.8040400@gmail.com> On 08/02/2013 10:17 AM, Cal Horner wrote: > Simple question: > > If you can do this, > "set the backgroundcolor of stack "Answer Dialog" to whatever." > > Why can't you do this? > > "set the location stack "Answer Dialog" to whatever." > _______________________________________________ > Dunno. BUT . . . this works: on mouseUp set the lockScreen to true toplevel stack "Answer Dialog" move stack "Answer Dialog" to 700,700 wait 10 ticks answer "Surprise" set the lockScreen to true end mouseUp The only snag is that the Answer Dialog stack shows up, despite the lockScreen before it is moved. Richmond. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 2 08:17:06 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 14:17:06 +0200 Subject: Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner is available again! In-Reply-To: <1375383948970-4668240.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <51F7E64B.8050405@economy-x-talk.com> <1375383948970-4668240.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <51FBA342.30004@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Peter, Many thanks for the kind feedback. If you, and other people too of course, would like to make a contribution to future editions of the book, please post your comments and questions at http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/qa/ . All feedback collected in this place will be taken into consideration whenever a new release of the book is prepared. Moreover, it is the only place where I discuss the content of the book with readers and provide explanations if asked for. Another way to provide feedback is by filling out the questionnaire at http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ . The results of this survey are used in any business decisions regarding the book. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/1/2013 21:05, Peter Alcibiades wrote: > Its a great book. I've one or two comments about topics and treatment which > are probably best sent direct. The thing it might be interesting to know > how others feel about is physical. Is it possible to go to a stitched and > not just a glued binding. I keep wanting to pin it open or spread it out > flat, but am aware that this will just break the spine. Maybe its too > expensive to go for stitched bindings? > > We have a series of cookbooks with stitched bindings for this very purpose, > so you can leave them open at a page on the kitchen table, and it really > helps. > > Its a great book in any case. One or two treatments that for the target > audience could be made a little more accessible, but that's in the margin. > A real contribution. If you have any bright technically interested young > teenage relatives in need of intellectual stimulation, a copy of the OSS > version and this would be a fine present. Who knows where it might lead. > > Old retired relatives in need of intellectual stimulation too! > > Peter > > From pmbrig at gmail.com Fri Aug 2 08:53:34 2013 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:53:34 -0400 Subject: Greenhorn Question In-Reply-To: <51f924e1.060db40a.1b93.5c98SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <1375278548647-4668171.post@n4.nabble.com> <51f924e1.060db40a.1b93.5c98SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5D42D068-BAB4-45E1-9514-950F88FBB360@gmail.com> You have to lock the cursor, or it resets to default on idle as soon as the handler finishes. Best practice is to just set the defaultcursor, which obviates the need to lock the cursor. Locking the cursor can lead to frozen cursors if somehow your "unlock cursor" command fails to trigger. Very annoying for the user. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Jul 31, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Ruediger Wilhelm wrote: > I hardly dare to ask this most likely trivial > question to this list. > Why does the cursor not change on my > button script: > > on mouseEnter > set the cursor to hand > end mouseEnter > > Thanks to somebody who cares to help! > > Ruediger > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of Robert Mann > Sent: Mittwoch, 31. Juli 2013 15:49 > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: revOnline and Open Source > > Oups! i'm surprised. I thought the opposite would be true :: if nothing > specified, it's deemed "public knowledge"? > > As far as patents are concerned, once a mechanism is documented on line, it > is deemed to be public knowledge and thus no more patentable (one could do > it but anybody knowing the prior publication and proving it would be able to > challenge the patent). > > Now it is true that copyrights protect the actual "wording" you use in a > document, and is applicable to softwares. And copyright applies whether or > not you actually put the copyright logo name and year. > > On the frontier :: if the name of the author is not specified in the stack, > then it'll be hard to argue against common knowledge. > > Clearly it would simplify to be able to add at the publication step a > corresponding OSS declaration. > > I strangely assumed so far that contributions at revOnline were for the > common good, thus freely re-usable common knowledge. Are there any other > folks around who though so? > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/revOnline-and-Open-Source-tp4 > 668100p4668171.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bleiler at buffalo.edu Fri Aug 2 09:51:03 2013 From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:51:03 -0400 Subject: Are the conference videos still available anywhere? In-Reply-To: <1375364116.2493.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA37A4.6010305@economy-x-talk.com> <1375364116.2493.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <194B400C-48F9-4905-8227-405A8A1FA631@buffalo.edu> Does anyone know if there is still a way to access the conference videos? The link I was sent does not work anymore. Tim Bleiler, Ph.D. Instructional Designer, HSIT University at Buffalo From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Aug 2 10:31:30 2013 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 16:31:30 +0200 Subject: Are the conference videos still available anywhere? In-Reply-To: <194B400C-48F9-4905-8227-405A8A1FA631@buffalo.edu> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA37A4.6010305@economy-x-talk.com> <1375364116.2493.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <194B400C-48F9-4905-8227-405A8A1FA631@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <9D3F53E9-E4BD-4CA0-B3B9-F588401709EE@m-r-d.de> Hi Tim, if you are using the URL from the "simulast info" email, then use the URL without the index.html That should work. Regards, Matthias Am 02.08.2013 um 15:51 schrieb Timothy Bleiler : > Does anyone know if there is still a way to access the conference videos? > > The link I was sent does not work anymore. > > > Tim Bleiler, Ph.D. > Instructional Designer, HSIT > University at Buffalo > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Aug 2 10:33:42 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:33:42 -0700 Subject: Preliminary results on in-memory sqlite instead of array Message-ID: I've partially written the code to use in-memory sqlite for my storage instead of an array. (I need to do fast sorts by parts of a two-dimensional array--and sorts that are natural to sql). Anyway, if a single database is opened in memory, it seems to be blindingly fast. Db creation, table creation, and query come back before the milliseconds change. A simple query ranges from 0 to 1 ms. Open three or 4--with all but the last all but empty-- and it's another story. a few ms to create, and about 70 ms for a simple query. (There are something like 340 rows of nine columns in this. The 340 line command is one of the fast/slow results). I'm not sure that I'll get to the point of comparing query/sort across the array--it would be ugly and mind-twisting to write (along with the secondary arrays needed for indices); if this is fast enough, I'm going to use it. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bleiler at buffalo.edu Fri Aug 2 10:41:06 2013 From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:41:06 -0400 Subject: Are the conference videos still available anywhere? In-Reply-To: <9D3F53E9-E4BD-4CA0-B3B9-F588401709EE@m-r-d.de> References: <51F6AE64.10107@gmail.com> <51F9D90A.5040604@fourthworld.com> <9A0F8E19-7F05-4F08-AC31-19B0EA882171@sweattechnologies.com> <1375350769237-4668212.post@n4.nabble.com> <51FA37A4.6010305@economy-x-talk.com> <1375364116.2493.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <194B400C-48F9-4905-8227-405A8A1FA631@buffalo.edu> <9D3F53E9-E4BD-4CA0-B3B9-F588401709EE@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Thanks Matthias, that worked! Tim On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:31 AM, Matthias Rebbe wrote: > Hi Tim, > > if you are using the URL from the "simulast info" email, then use the URL without the index.html > > That should work. > > Regards, > > Matthias > > Am 02.08.2013 um 15:51 schrieb Timothy Bleiler : > >> Does anyone know if there is still a way to access the conference videos? >> >> The link I was sent does not work anymore. >> >> >> Tim Bleiler, Ph.D. >> Instructional Designer, HSIT >> University at Buffalo >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Aug 2 11:53:48 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:53:48 +0000 Subject: Scrolling on Mac OS X : groups vs fields In-Reply-To: <51FB7147.1030301@tweedly.net> References: <51FB7147.1030301@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Alex On Aug 2, 2013, at 2:43 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > On OSX (10.8.4, MBP - but I doubt that matters), I can scroll using a two-finger touch (i.e. if the cursor is within an area that is scrollable, then generally I can touch with two fingers, and 'push up' or 'pull down' the window contents. > > This includes LC fields - this scrolling "just works" for them. > > If I create a group, set and lock its position and give it a scrollbar, then it gets the scrollbar, and all the traditional behaviour associated with that (i.e. the scrollbar can be dragged, etc.) > > But it doesn't automatically get the two-finger touch behaviour. > > Is there some way I can enable that ? Do I need to program this myself ? > > It looks as though the "touchStart, touchEnd, etc. are implemented on mobile only, so I'm not sure where to start. I believe you have to handle scroll wheel actions using rawKeyDown or rawKeyUp (I forget which, and I'm not in a place I can check right now.) Just figure out which codes get sent when the scroll wheel is used and set the scroll of the group in your handler. HTH Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From mac at mauraoconnell.com Fri Aug 2 12:32:00 2013 From: mac at mauraoconnell.com (Mac Bennett) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:32:00 -0500 Subject: Scrolling on Mac OS X : groups vs fields In-Reply-To: References: <51FB7147.1030301@tweedly.net> Message-ID: This works for me, though you might need to adjust 'tStepsize': --in group script on rawKeyDown pKey if the short name of me is not in the long name of target then pass rawkeydown else put 45 into tStepSize -- adjust here the stepsize for scrolling switch pKey case "65309" -- scroll up set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me - tStepSize break case "65308" -- scroll down set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me + tStepSize break end switch end if pass rawkeydown end rawKeyDown (In light of the recent copyright discussion going on here, I would like to disclose that I 'borrowed' this entirely a few years ago, and can't remember where; so apologies and thanks to the actual author.) There are also a few similar examples in the "rawkeydown/up" entries in the Livecode Dictionary. Mac On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:53 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > Alex > On Aug 2, 2013, at 2:43 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> On OSX (10.8.4, MBP - but I doubt that matters), I can scroll using a two-finger touch (i.e. if the cursor is within an area that is scrollable, then generally I can touch with two fingers, and 'push up' or 'pull down' the window contents. >> >> This includes LC fields - this scrolling "just works" for them. >> >> If I create a group, set and lock its position and give it a scrollbar, then it gets the scrollbar, and all the traditional behaviour associated with that (i.e. the scrollbar can be dragged, etc.) >> >> But it doesn't automatically get the two-finger touch behaviour. >> >> Is there some way I can enable that ? Do I need to program this myself ? >> >> It looks as though the "touchStart, touchEnd, etc. are implemented on mobile only, so I'm not sure where to start. > > I believe you have to handle scroll wheel actions using rawKeyDown or rawKeyUp (I forget which, and I'm not in a place I can check right now.) Just figure out which codes get sent when the scroll wheel is used and set the scroll of the group in your handler. > > HTH > > Devin > > > Devin Asay > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From vclement at gmail.com Fri Aug 2 14:26:16 2013 From: vclement at gmail.com (Vaughn Clement) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:26:16 -0700 Subject: Data-Grid usage Message-ID: Hi (New to LiveCode) I would like to have a stack index or contents for each card where I determine the fields in the data-grid. I would also like to have a control in the row that would go to the card for the data in the row. Questions: - Can the data-grid be set to use fields on individual cards in the data grid as the user information for the card they want to view? - Can the card be called and displayed form the row where the field data is present? - Is the data grid the only way to accomplish this task? - I want the user to be able to select a card similar to the way a table in IOS is used to direct the user to the screen with the specific data they want. Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 2 17:16:14 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 14:16:14 -0700 Subject: Persistent LC server? In-Reply-To: <897EEECE-2665-49F0-A5C1-9CDD62F8770F@sweattechnologies.com> References: <897EEECE-2665-49F0-A5C1-9CDD62F8770F@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <51FC219E.6020204@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > Hi Richard > > I had a look at the engine code for you and I don't think you will > get this to work without some modifications to the source. If you > look at the server implementation of X_main_loop you will see that > unlike all the other engines that repeatedly do stuff while the > MCQuit flag is false the server engine just does it's stuff so it > will naturally quit at the end. Very interesting. Thanks for that background. In your code base exploration have you discovered why the Linux Server engine is nearly 50% larger than that non-server Linux standalone engine? I can't imagine the extra merge functionality alone accounts for all that space. > Is there a reason you couldn't use the -u flag on a regular > standalone? None at all. In fact, I've been using standalones for CGIs for some time (I started back when LC Server didn't support stack files as libraries). I've grown to prefer them for many tasks, esp. given my habit of including only function calls (rather than complete handlers) in my HTML anyway. > My biggest question though is what event is triggered on the > persistent server when you request some part of your array? > LC Server scripts are basically just one big startup handler > without the handler declaration. Right. If I were to pursue this I'd probably write a quasi-event look, watching a particular socket. At the moment, though, I'm on a different path, since I discovered a way to make an array-like file I can access elements within from a cold start at about 0.02ms per access, fast enough for CGI use. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Aug 2 17:20:20 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 17:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Data-Grid usage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> Not quite sure what you are asking. Say you had a list field on a "main" card. If the user clicks on a line and navigates to another card based on what line that contained, would that do the trick? When user edits the field(s) on that local card, you can write a routine that populates the main list field with one or more keywords that might appear that local card, so that the references back in "main" are always updated. If I were doing it, I would change the name of the card itself to reflect some aspect of the data in the local field. So if the user entered "texas" in the field on card 200, the name of that card would change to "texas", and the appropriate line in the list field would change as well. This can get unwieldy with many lines, and in that case you will want to create a binary search gadget, where the user types a few characters into a field, and a routine pulls matches from all the other cards and loads them into the list field. The more you type, the shorter the list field matches. This will probably necessary unless you only have a handful of cards to go to. You can certainly use a datagrid, but for what you are asking it seems like overkill, unless I am missing much of what you intend, which is very likely. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Vaughn Clement To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Fri, Aug 2, 2013 2:27 pm Subject: Data-Grid usage Hi (New to LiveCode) I would like to have a stack index or contents for each card where I determine the fields in the data-grid. I would also like to have a control in the row that would go to the card for the data in the row. Questions: - Can the data-grid be set to use fields on individual cards in the data grid as the user information for the card they want to view? - Can the card be called and displayed form the row where the field data is present? - Is the data grid the only way to accomplish this task? - I want the user to be able to select a card similar to the way a table in IOS is used to direct the user to the screen with the specific data they want. Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Aug 2 17:35:57 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:35:57 -0700 Subject: LiveCode and Sleep/Hibernation In-Reply-To: <8D045B518B606A3-98C-4D38E@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D045B518B606A3-98C-4D38E@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 8:32 PM, wrote: > I bought a small gadget called "Sleepless" that fools the machine into staying awake while the lid is closed. There are laptops that this could kill, or at least they used to be. Some designs vented heat though the keyboard, and closing hte lid thwarted this. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 2 17:41:54 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 07:41:54 +1000 Subject: Persistent LC server? In-Reply-To: <51FC219E.6020204@fourthworld.com> References: <897EEECE-2665-49F0-A5C1-9CDD62F8770F@sweattechnologies.com> <51FC219E.6020204@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 03/08/2013, at 7:16 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > In your code base exploration have you discovered why the Linux Server engine is nearly 50% larger than that non-server Linux standalone engine? I believe theres some extra libraries included in server. > > My biggest question though is what event is triggered on the > > persistent server when you request some part of your array? > > LC Server scripts are basically just one big startup handler > > without the handler declaration. > > Right. If I were to pursue this I'd probably write a quasi-event look, watching a particular socket. I'm not sure if server has sockets... > > At the moment, though, I'm on a different path, since I discovered a way to make an array-like file I can access elements within from a cold start at about 0.02ms per access, fast enough for CGI use. That sounds like the way to go then... use a persistent process and it should be unmeasurable. -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From vclement at gmail.com Fri Aug 2 18:09:19 2013 From: vclement at gmail.com (Vaughn Clement) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:09:19 -0700 Subject: Data-Grid usage In-Reply-To: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Craig That gives me some options to research. If I put the card ID into a field in the list could that work in that the ID would not repeat. Then I could use the go to card id in a control in the list. To show how new I am to livecode which control are you calling a list field? Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:20 PM, wrote: > Not quite sure what you are asking. > > > Say you had a list field on a "main" card. If the user clicks on a line > and navigates to another card based on what line that contained, would that > do the trick? > > > When user edits the field(s) on that local card, you can write a routine > that populates the main list field with one or more keywords that might > appear that local card, so that the references back in "main" are always > updated. > > > If I were doing it, I would change the name of the card itself to reflect > some aspect of the data in the local field. So if the user entered "texas" > in the field on card 200, the name of that card would change to "texas", > and the appropriate line in the list field would change as well. This can > get unwieldy with many lines, and in that case you will want to create a > binary search gadget, where the user types a few characters into a field, > and a routine pulls matches from all the other cards and loads them into > the list field. The more you type, the shorter the list field matches. This > will probably necessary unless you only have a handful of cards to go to. > > > You can certainly use a datagrid, but for what you are asking it seems > like overkill, unless I am missing much of what you intend, which is very > likely. > > > Craig Newman > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vaughn Clement > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Fri, Aug 2, 2013 2:27 pm > Subject: Data-Grid usage > > > Hi > > (New to LiveCode) > > I would like to have a stack index or contents for each card where I > determine the fields in the data-grid. I would also like to have a control > in the row that would go to the card for the data in the row. > > Questions: > > > - Can the data-grid be set to use fields on individual cards in the data > grid as the user information for the card they want to view? > - Can the card be called and displayed form the row where the field data > is present? > - Is the data grid the only way to accomplish this task? > - I want the user to be able to select a card similar to the way a table > in IOS is used to direct the user to the screen with the specific data > they > want. > > Thank you > > Vaughn Clement > > Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) > *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* > Skype: vaughn.clement > https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement > FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com > LogMeIn also avaialble > Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 > Ph. 928-254-9062 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Aug 2 19:00:27 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 19:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Data-Grid usage In-Reply-To: References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8D05DEB36A8462D-13D0-2085B@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> Hi. OK. There is only one kind of field. Setting properties creates a list field or table field. List fields can be pulled directly from the tool palette. Find one. ID's are fine, or you can use the "find" command to located actual text. There are a few refinements required so you don't find the text in the list field itself. Did you see what I meant by a binary search? I use this sort of thing a lot, and LC is so fast that culling from a large dataset is nearly instantaneous. Write back with specific issues, but first get a stack running with a bunch of ancillary cards. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Vaughn Clement To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:10 pm Subject: Re: Data-Grid usage Hi Craig That gives me some options to research. If I put the card ID into a field in the list could that work in that the ID would not repeat. Then I could use the go to card id in a control in the list. To show how new I am to livecode which control are you calling a list field? Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:20 PM, wrote: > Not quite sure what you are asking. > > > Say you had a list field on a "main" card. If the user clicks on a line > and navigates to another card based on what line that contained, would that > do the trick? > > > When user edits the field(s) on that local card, you can write a routine > that populates the main list field with one or more keywords that might > appear that local card, so that the references back in "main" are always > updated. > > > If I were doing it, I would change the name of the card itself to reflect > some aspect of the data in the local field. So if the user entered "texas" > in the field on card 200, the name of that card would change to "texas", > and the appropriate line in the list field would change as well. This can > get unwieldy with many lines, and in that case you will want to create a > binary search gadget, where the user types a few characters into a field, > and a routine pulls matches from all the other cards and loads them into > the list field. The more you type, the shorter the list field matches. This > will probably necessary unless you only have a handful of cards to go to. > > > You can certainly use a datagrid, but for what you are asking it seems > like overkill, unless I am missing much of what you intend, which is very > likely. > > > Craig Newman > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vaughn Clement > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Fri, Aug 2, 2013 2:27 pm > Subject: Data-Grid usage > > > Hi > > (New to LiveCode) > > I would like to have a stack index or contents for each card where I > determine the fields in the data-grid. I would also like to have a control > in the row that would go to the card for the data in the row. > > Questions: > > > - Can the data-grid be set to use fields on individual cards in the data > grid as the user information for the card they want to view? > - Can the card be called and displayed form the row where the field data > is present? > - Is the data grid the only way to accomplish this task? > - I want the user to be able to select a card similar to the way a table > in IOS is used to direct the user to the screen with the specific data > they > want. > > Thank you > > Vaughn Clement > > Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) > *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* > Skype: vaughn.clement > https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement > FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com > LogMeIn also avaialble > Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 > Ph. 928-254-9062 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From vclement at gmail.com Fri Aug 2 19:06:27 2013 From: vclement at gmail.com (Vaughn Clement) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 16:06:27 -0700 Subject: Data-Grid usage In-Reply-To: <8D05DEB36A8462D-13D0-2085B@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> <8D05DEB36A8462D-13D0-2085B@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Craig I found the scrolling list and now reading how it is used. Also looked at the inspector options. I will get back to you on what I find... Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 4:00 PM, wrote: > Hi. > > > OK. > > > There is only one kind of field. Setting properties creates a list field > or table field. List fields can be pulled directly from the tool palette. > Find one. > > > ID's are fine, or you can use the "find" command to located actual text. > There are a few refinements required so you don't find the text in the list > field itself. > > > Did you see what I meant by a binary search? I use this sort of thing a > lot, and LC is so fast that culling from a large dataset is nearly > instantaneous. Write back with specific issues, but first get a stack > running with a bunch of ancillary cards. > > > Craig > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vaughn Clement > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:10 pm > Subject: Re: Data-Grid usage > > > Hi Craig > > That gives me some options to research. > > If I put the card ID into a field in the list could that work in that the > ID would not repeat. > Then I could use the go to card id in a control in the list. > To show how new I am to livecode which control are you calling a list > field? > > Thank you > > Vaughn Clement > > Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) > *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* > Skype: vaughn.clement > https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement > FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com > LogMeIn also avaialble > Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 > Ph. 928-254-9062 > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:20 PM, wrote: > > > Not quite sure what you are asking. > > > > > > Say you had a list field on a "main" card. If the user clicks on a line > > and navigates to another card based on what line that contained, would > that > > do the trick? > > > > > > When user edits the field(s) on that local card, you can write a routine > > that populates the main list field with one or more keywords that might > > appear that local card, so that the references back in "main" are always > > updated. > > > > > > If I were doing it, I would change the name of the card itself to reflect > > some aspect of the data in the local field. So if the user entered > "texas" > > in the field on card 200, the name of that card would change to "texas", > > and the appropriate line in the list field would change as well. This can > > get unwieldy with many lines, and in that case you will want to create a > > binary search gadget, where the user types a few characters into a field, > > and a routine pulls matches from all the other cards and loads them into > > the list field. The more you type, the shorter the list field matches. > This > > will probably necessary unless you only have a handful of cards to go to. > > > > > > You can certainly use a datagrid, but for what you are asking it seems > > like overkill, unless I am missing much of what you intend, which is very > > likely. > > > > > > Craig Newman > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Vaughn Clement > > To: How to use LiveCode > > Sent: Fri, Aug 2, 2013 2:27 pm > > Subject: Data-Grid usage > > > > > > Hi > > > > (New to LiveCode) > > > > I would like to have a stack index or contents for each card where I > > determine the fields in the data-grid. I would also like to have a > control > > in the row that would go to the card for the data in the row. > > > > Questions: > > > > > > - Can the data-grid be set to use fields on individual cards in the > data > > grid as the user information for the card they want to view? > > - Can the card be called and displayed form the row where the field > data > > is present? > > - Is the data grid the only way to accomplish this task? > > - I want the user to be able to select a card similar to the way a > table > > in IOS is used to direct the user to the screen with the specific data > > they > > want. > > > > Thank you > > > > Vaughn Clement > > > > Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) > > *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* > > Skype: vaughn.clement > > https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement > > FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com > > LogMeIn also avaialble > > Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 > > Ph. 928-254-9062 > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription > > preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From alex at tweedly.net Fri Aug 2 21:29:44 2013 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 02:29:44 +0100 Subject: Scrolling on Mac OS X : groups vs fields In-Reply-To: References: <51FB7147.1030301@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <51FC5D08.7070205@tweedly.net> Thanks Devin and Mac - that works fine. -- Alex. P.S. I'm not sure how I would *ever* have found that in the dictionary / User Guide - so thanks again. On 02/08/2013 17:32, Mac Bennett wrote: > This works for me, though you might need to adjust 'tStepsize': > > --in group script > > on rawKeyDown pKey > if the short name of me is not in the long name of target then > pass rawkeydown > else > put 45 into tStepSize -- adjust here the stepsize for scrolling > switch pKey > case "65309" -- scroll up > set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me - tStepSize > break > case "65308" -- scroll down > set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me + tStepSize > break > end switch > end if > pass rawkeydown > end rawKeyDown > > (In light of the recent copyright discussion going on here, I would like to disclose that I 'borrowed' this entirely a few years ago, and can't remember where; so apologies and thanks to the actual author.) > > There are also a few similar examples in the "rawkeydown/up" entries in the Livecode Dictionary. > > Mac > > > On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:53 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > >> Alex >> On Aug 2, 2013, at 2:43 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >>> On OSX (10.8.4, MBP - but I doubt that matters), I can scroll using a two-finger touch (i.e. if the cursor is within an area that is scrollable, then generally I can touch with two fingers, and 'push up' or 'pull down' the window contents. >>> >>> This includes LC fields - this scrolling "just works" for them. >>> >>> If I create a group, set and lock its position and give it a scrollbar, then it gets the scrollbar, and all the traditional behaviour associated with that (i.e. the scrollbar can be dragged, etc.) >>> >>> But it doesn't automatically get the two-finger touch behaviour. >>> >>> Is there some way I can enable that ? Do I need to program this myself ? >>> >>> It looks as though the "touchStart, touchEnd, etc. are implemented on mobile only, so I'm not sure where to start. >> I believe you have to handle scroll wheel actions using rawKeyDown or rawKeyUp (I forget which, and I'm not in a place I can check right now.) Just figure out which codes get sent when the scroll wheel is used and set the scroll of the group in your handler. >> >> HTH >> >> Devin >> >> >> Devin Asay >> Office of Digital Humanities >> Brigham Young University >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre.bisseret at wanadoo.fr Sat Aug 3 04:29:43 2013 From: andre.bisseret at wanadoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Bisseret?=) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 10:29:43 +0200 Subject: Data-Grid usage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bonjour Cl?ment, I am sending you a stack I made for my own use ; it concerns scirpting in data grid. On the first card the contents in a datagrid : when clicking on a line of this datagrid, you are directed to the corresponding card. Might be that would help you if I have well understand your problem. Best regards Andr? Le 2 ao?t 2013 ? 20:26, Vaughn Clement a ?crit : > Hi > > (New to LiveCode) > > I would like to have a stack index or contents for each card where I > determine the fields in the data-grid. I would also like to have a control > in the row that would go to the card for the data in the row. > > Questions: > > > - Can the data-grid be set to use fields on individual cards in the data > grid as the user information for the card they want to view? > - Can the card be called and displayed form the row where the field data > is present? > - Is the data grid the only way to accomplish this task? > - I want the user to be able to select a card similar to the way a table > in IOS is used to direct the user to the screen with the specific data they > want. > > Thank you > > Vaughn Clement > > Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) > *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* > Skype: vaughn.clement > https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement > FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com > LogMeIn also avaialble > Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 > Ph. 928-254-9062 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Sat Aug 3 05:40:03 2013 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 11:40:03 +0200 Subject: Data-Grid usage In-Reply-To: References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> <8D05DEB36A8462D-13D0-2085B@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <6C57D25B-45BB-4A8C-A552-4AAE26900DEF@major-k.de> Hi Vaughn, Am 03.08.2013 um 01:06 schrieb Vaughn Clement : > Hi Craig > > I found the scrolling list and now reading how it is used. Also looked at > the inspector options. I will get back to you on what I find... please take a look at these stacks to get you started with the basics of Livecode: > Thank you > > Vaughn Clement Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sat Aug 3 07:31:23 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 13:31:23 +0200 Subject: A few words about Programming LiveCode... Message-ID: <51FCEA0B.4030304@economy-x-talk.com> Hi, Now that the second print run of my book is being shipped, I'd like to write a few words. This week, we have sent almost 20 books all over the world. If you confirmed your address in reply to our request, you will receive it soon. I would like to ask everyone, again, to make sure that you provide us with a correct e-mail address when you order the book. Three people ordered the book with false contact information and it took a tremendous effort to find out who those people are and where they live. Please, make sure PayPal, your credit card company and your bank have your correct e-mail (if applicable), name and address and make sure to check this before, and not after, placing your order. When you receive the book, please fill out the questionnaire at http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ . Your feedback is very important, because we use it to improve the book and our services. The questionnaire contains questions that we really need you to answer, even if you decide not to buy it. Another place for feedback is our Q&A website at http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/qa/ . Here you can post your questions and comments and discuss the book with other readers. One issue that has become apparent from the survey is the price perception. There is little we can do about the price, because it just happens to be the total cost of printing and packaging the book, plus all taxes and postage and a minimal margin. However, we have made it easier to get a discount. From now on, we will apply a discount to any order of 10 books or more. The discount is at least 5 euro per book. User groups, book shops and schools always get a discount, if they order more than 1 book (note that all books must be sent to one single address). Contact us for a quote. I will say more about the survey in another e-mail. I suppose there are people on this mailing list who would like to read some answers. For now, additional general info about the book can be found at http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/ . N.B. You may get a free copy by liking Programming LiveCode... on Facebook. The URL is https://www.facebook.com/LiveCode.Beginner and as soon as we have 1000 'likes' we'll raffle off 10 copies. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ From iowahengst at mac.com Sat Aug 3 10:26:43 2013 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:26:43 -0500 Subject: Scrolling on Mac OS X : groups vs fields In-Reply-To: <51FC5D08.7070205@tweedly.net> References: <51FB7147.1030301@tweedly.net> <51FC5D08.7070205@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <3595D0B7-0F8D-4922-871B-E10B55632803@mac.com> Hi All, Any thoughts as to why my arrow keys don't show the rawKey numbers listed here? I'm on a MacBook Pro 13 in? I get 65361 -- left arrow 65362 -- up arrow 65363 -- right arrow 65364 -- down arrow be well, randy hengst ----- On Aug 2, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Thanks Devin and Mac - that works fine. > > -- Alex. > P.S. I'm not sure how I would *ever* have found that in the dictionary / User Guide - so thanks again. > > > > On 02/08/2013 17:32, Mac Bennett wrote: >> This works for me, though you might need to adjust 'tStepsize': >> >> --in group script >> >> on rawKeyDown pKey >> if the short name of me is not in the long name of target then >> pass rawkeydown >> else >> put 45 into tStepSize -- adjust here the stepsize for scrolling >> switch pKey >> case "65309" -- scroll up >> set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me - tStepSize >> break >> case "65308" -- scroll down >> set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me + tStepSize >> break >> end switch >> end if >> pass rawkeydown >> end rawKeyDown >> >> (In light of the recent copyright discussion going on here, I would like to disclose that I 'borrowed' this entirely a few years ago, and can't remember where; so apologies and thanks to the actual author.) >> >> There are also a few similar examples in the "rawkeydown/up" entries in the Livecode Dictionary. >> >> Mac >> >> >> On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:53 AM, Devin Asay wrote: >> >>> Alex >>> On Aug 2, 2013, at 2:43 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >>> >>>> On OSX (10.8.4, MBP - but I doubt that matters), I can scroll using a two-finger touch (i.e. if the cursor is within an area that is scrollable, then generally I can touch with two fingers, and 'push up' or 'pull down' the window contents. >>>> >>>> This includes LC fields - this scrolling "just works" for them. >>>> >>>> If I create a group, set and lock its position and give it a scrollbar, then it gets the scrollbar, and all the traditional behaviour associated with that (i.e. the scrollbar can be dragged, etc.) >>>> >>>> But it doesn't automatically get the two-finger touch behaviour. >>>> >>>> Is there some way I can enable that ? Do I need to program this myself ? >>>> >>>> It looks as though the "touchStart, touchEnd, etc. are implemented on mobile only, so I'm not sure where to start. >>> I believe you have to handle scroll wheel actions using rawKeyDown or rawKeyUp (I forget which, and I'm not in a place I can check right now.) Just figure out which codes get sent when the scroll wheel is used and set the scroll of the group in your handler. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Devin >>> >>> >>> Devin Asay >>> Office of Digital Humanities >>> Brigham Young University >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 3 10:39:12 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 07:39:12 -0700 Subject: Scrolling on Mac OS X : groups vs fields In-Reply-To: <3595D0B7-0F8D-4922-871B-E10B55632803@mac.com> References: <3595D0B7-0F8D-4922-871B-E10B55632803@mac.com> Message-ID: <51FD1610.5010908@fourthworld.com> Randy Hengst wrote: >> On 02/08/2013 17:32, Mac Bennett wrote: >>> This works for me, though you might need to adjust 'tStepsize': >>> >>> --in group script >>> >>> on rawKeyDown pKey >>> if the short name of me is not in the long name of target then >>> pass rawkeydown >>> else >>> put 45 into tStepSize -- adjust here the stepsize for scrolling >>> switch pKey >>> case "65309" -- scroll up >>> set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me - tStepSize >>> break >>> case "65308" -- scroll down >>> set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me + tStepSize >>> break >>> end switch >>> end if >>> pass rawkeydown >>> end rawKeyDown > > Any thoughts as to why my arrow keys don't show the rawKey numbers > listed here? > > I'm on a MacBook Pro 13 in? I get > 65361 -- left arrow > 65362 -- up arrow > 65363 -- right arrow > 65364 -- down arrow The values shown in the post you quoted were for the scroll wheel. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From vclement at gmail.com Sat Aug 3 10:49:25 2013 From: vclement at gmail.com (Vaughn Clement) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 07:49:25 -0700 Subject: Data-Grid usage In-Reply-To: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Andre It appears that you have all of the basics data grid usage I am trying to create for my project. Since I am so new to LC it will take a bit to fully understand what your project is doing. I am going on a weeks business trip so I won't be able to really dig into the code until I return. I will surly have some questions. Thank you for your assistance and the help your providing. This is a basic component to my project development, so it will get me off on the right foot. Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:20 PM, wrote: > Not quite sure what you are asking. > > > Say you had a list field on a "main" card. If the user clicks on a line > and navigates to another card based on what line that contained, would that > do the trick? > > > When user edits the field(s) on that local card, you can write a routine > that populates the main list field with one or more keywords that might > appear that local card, so that the references back in "main" are always > updated. > > > If I were doing it, I would change the name of the card itself to reflect > some aspect of the data in the local field. So if the user entered "texas" > in the field on card 200, the name of that card would change to "texas", > and the appropriate line in the list field would change as well. This can > get unwieldy with many lines, and in that case you will want to create a > binary search gadget, where the user types a few characters into a field, > and a routine pulls matches from all the other cards and loads them into > the list field. The more you type, the shorter the list field matches. This > will probably necessary unless you only have a handful of cards to go to. > > > You can certainly use a datagrid, but for what you are asking it seems > like overkill, unless I am missing much of what you intend, which is very > likely. > > > Craig Newman > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vaughn Clement > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Fri, Aug 2, 2013 2:27 pm > Subject: Data-Grid usage > > > Hi > > (New to LiveCode) > > I would like to have a stack index or contents for each card where I > determine the fields in the data-grid. I would also like to have a control > in the row that would go to the card for the data in the row. > > Questions: > > > - Can the data-grid be set to use fields on individual cards in the data > grid as the user information for the card they want to view? > - Can the card be called and displayed form the row where the field data > is present? > - Is the data grid the only way to accomplish this task? > - I want the user to be able to select a card similar to the way a table > in IOS is used to direct the user to the screen with the specific data > they > want. > > Thank you > > Vaughn Clement > > Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) > *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* > Skype: vaughn.clement > https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement > FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com > LogMeIn also avaialble > Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 > Ph. 928-254-9062 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From iowahengst at mac.com Sat Aug 3 10:54:05 2013 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:54:05 -0500 Subject: Scrolling on Mac OS X : groups vs fields In-Reply-To: <51FD1610.5010908@fourthworld.com> References: <3595D0B7-0F8D-4922-871B-E10B55632803@mac.com> <51FD1610.5010908@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <76CB4ED8-1D07-4AB2-B516-022233F948A5@mac.com> Got it, thanks. On Aug 3, 2013, at 9:39 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Randy Hengst wrote: > > >> On 02/08/2013 17:32, Mac Bennett wrote: > >>> This works for me, though you might need to adjust 'tStepsize': > >>> > >>> --in group script > >>> > >>> on rawKeyDown pKey > >>> if the short name of me is not in the long name of target then > >>> pass rawkeydown > >>> else > >>> put 45 into tStepSize -- adjust here the stepsize for scrolling > >>> switch pKey > >>> case "65309" -- scroll up > >>> set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me - tStepSize > >>> break > >>> case "65308" -- scroll down > >>> set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me + tStepSize > >>> break > >>> end switch > >>> end if > >>> pass rawkeydown > >>> end rawKeyDown > > > > Any thoughts as to why my arrow keys don't show the rawKey numbers > > listed here? > > > > I'm on a MacBook Pro 13 in? I get > > 65361 -- left arrow > > 65362 -- up arrow > > 65363 -- right arrow > > 65364 -- down arrow > > The values shown in the post you quoted were for the scroll wheel. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 3 11:15:36 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 10:15:36 -0500 Subject: Data-Grid usage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FD1E98.50808@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/2/13 1:26 PM, Vaughn Clement wrote: > Hi > > (New to LiveCode) > > I would like to have a stack index or contents for each card where I > determine the fields in the data-grid. I would also like to have a control > in the row that would go to the card for the data in the row. I agree with Craig that researching and following hints is a great way to learn, but when you're really, really new, sometimes you need a little more than that to get started without being too frustrated. I would not use a datagrid for what you want, it's way overkill. All you need is a simple list field. What you want to do is pretty common, here's how I do it: Name each card descriptively and uniquely. That is, name it with the same string that should appear in the list. On the index card that has the list field, you can populate the list in one line of code: put the cardnames of this stack into field "listField" -- put the actual name of the field in the quotes Now you have automatic linkages, and all you need to do is script the field to respond to a click: on mouseUp put the clicktext into tCardName go card tCardName end mouseUp This can be further reduced to a single line: go card (the clicktext) Normally the clicktext returns only the word under the mouse, but in a list field it returns the entire line. That's why this works. If your stack is static and no cards are ever removed or added, you can put the cardnames into the list field once from the message box during development and forget about it. If the cards will change, then you'd want to execute that statement in a preOpenCard handler in the card script so that it will update every time the card opens. I now return you to generic hint mode. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From vclement at gmail.com Sat Aug 3 12:13:37 2013 From: vclement at gmail.com (Vaughn Clement) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:13:37 -0700 Subject: Data-Grid usage In-Reply-To: <51FD1E98.50808@hyperactivesw.com> References: <51FD1E98.50808@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi All The project I am trying to develope is as follows: I created a stack where a user can edit normal fields and then I can either use the card id or a field as the reference field on the main stack card to send the user to whatever card they click on in the main card. It can be a list or a data grid or whatever control will work. The user adds a new card first. The user opens the new blank card with preset fields to add data. The entry is the key where the reference data (say the name field) is used to help the user locate that card that was added. When they return to the main card their (Name or additional data say card ID) is used to identify the card they want to view or edit later. This is like a list view of all cards in the stack for the user added data. It is an index system that adds a new card link on the main card every time a new card is added. NOTE: the reference cards need to feed the index list and not require the user to add the same data on the list view. Several years ago I did this in HyperCard but I don't recall how it was done. Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 8:15 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/2/13 1:26 PM, Vaughn Clement wrote: > >> Hi >> >> (New to LiveCode) >> >> I would like to have a stack index or contents for each card where I >> determine the fields in the data-grid. I would also like to have a control >> in the row that would go to the card for the data in the row. >> > > I agree with Craig that researching and following hints is a great way to > learn, but when you're really, really new, sometimes you need a little more > than that to get started without being too frustrated. > > I would not use a datagrid for what you want, it's way overkill. All you > need is a simple list field. What you want to do is pretty common, here's > how I do it: > > Name each card descriptively and uniquely. That is, name it with the same > string that should appear in the list. > > On the index card that has the list field, you can populate the list in > one line of code: > > put the cardnames of this stack into field "listField" -- put the > actual name of the field in the quotes > > Now you have automatic linkages, and all you need to do is script the > field to respond to a click: > > on mouseUp > put the clicktext into tCardName > go card tCardName > end mouseUp > > This can be further reduced to a single line: > > go card (the clicktext) > > Normally the clicktext returns only the word under the mouse, but in a > list field it returns the entire line. That's why this works. > > If your stack is static and no cards are ever removed or added, you can > put the cardnames into the list field once from the message box during > development and forget about it. If the cards will change, then you'd want > to execute that statement in a preOpenCard handler in the card script so > that it will update every time the card opens. > > I now return you to generic hint mode. :) > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From andre.bisseret at wanadoo.fr Sat Aug 3 14:48:59 2013 From: andre.bisseret at wanadoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Bisseret?=) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 20:48:59 +0200 Subject: Data-Grid usage In-Reply-To: References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <999E247C-12B6-419E-858F-8500DCAE5327@wanadoo.fr> Le 3 ao?t 2013 ? 16:49, Vaughn Clement a ?crit : > Hi Andre > > It appears that you have all of the basics data grid usage I am trying to > create for my project. Since I am so new to LC it will take a bit to fully > understand what your project is doing. > > I am going on a weeks business trip so I won't be able to really dig into > the code until I return. I will surly have some questions. As it is for my own use I do not add a lot of explanations ; don't hesitate to ask when something is not clear. The dataGrid on card 1 might be easily replace by a list field (put the dgText of grp "DGContents" into field "your field name" See the post from J. Landman Gay on this thread. > Thank you for > your assistance and the help your providing. This is a basic component to > my project development, so it will get me off on the right foot. > > Thank you It'is my pleasure if that help you :-) Also, if you are using the commercial edition, you might be interested by Data Grid Helper which a very useful and easy to use tool. It avoid a lot of scripting when using dataGrids see : http://livecode.com/store/marketplace/data-grid-helper-1-2-0/ Andr? > > Vaughn Clement > > Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) > *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* > Skype: vaughn.clement > https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement > FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com > LogMeIn also avaialble > Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 > Ph. 928-254-9062 > > From jacques.hausser at unil.ch Sat Aug 3 17:58:03 2013 From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 23:58:03 +0200 Subject: Ask for an answer... In-Reply-To: <999E247C-12B6-419E-858F-8500DCAE5327@wanadoo.fr> References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> <999E247C-12B6-419E-858F-8500DCAE5327@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: It's perhaps not a brand new topic, but I floundered again, being confused with "ask" and "answer" commands, so I let off some stream. I was always bothered - and I'm not the only one - by the semantic of these commands. In both cases, the script asks a question, and the user has to answer. But the "answer" command is viewed as an order to the user, when the ask command is viewed as a demand from the application. Two points of view for two commands which in fact have very similar meanings. It seems logical that these commands should be either described from the application's side or from the user's side, and not the actual mixture of both. It would be (semantically) straightforward to change the meanings of the extand commands, but a nightmare to re-actualize old code. So, synonymizing (english?) only one of them, solutions could be: 1) if you prefer the point of view of the application: "answer" could be replaced by "request"-- for a demand needing a yes-or-no answer "ask" -- no change; for a demand requesting a more detailed answer, e.g. your birthday? 2) if you prefer the point of view of the user "answer" -- no change; for a yes-or-no answer "ask" could be replaced by "reply" -- with something more detailed. I'm sure that most of you, native English speakers, could find better solutions?I'm looking forward for them ! Jacques From dunbarx at aol.com Sat Aug 3 21:32:56 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 21:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ask for an answer... In-Reply-To: References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> <999E247C-12B6-419E-858F-8500DCAE5327@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <8D05EC9AE12DF2C-157C-20F54@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> Jacques. "Reply" and "Request" are both reserved words, but I get your point. But what really are your concerns? It is true that the two commands, which were born in 1987, are similar, in that they are both blocking, requiring user input to dismiss. One requires a choice among explicit answers, the other requires the user to type an answer, giving a much broader range for that answer. They might be combined into a single compound command, I suppose. But apart from that, I do not see the ambiguity you mention. As for how they are described and from what point of view, I do not understand what you mean. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Jacques Hausser To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Sat, Aug 3, 2013 5:59 pm Subject: Ask for an answer... It's perhaps not a brand new topic, but I floundered again, being confused with "ask" and "answer" commands, so I let off some stream. I was always bothered - and I'm not the only one - by the semantic of these commands. In both cases, the script asks a question, and the user has to answer. But the "answer" command is viewed as an order to the user, when the ask command is viewed as a demand from the application. Two points of view for two commands which in fact have very similar meanings. It seems logical that these commands should be either described from the application's side or from the user's side, and not the actual mixture of both. It would be (semantically) straightforward to change the meanings of the extand commands, but a nightmare to re-actualize old code. So, synonymizing (english?) only one of them, solutions could be: 1) if you prefer the point of view of the application: "answer" could be replaced by "request"-- for a demand needing a yes-or-no answer "ask" -- no change; for a demand requesting a more detailed answer, e.g. your birthday? 2) if you prefer the point of view of the user "answer" -- no change; for a yes-or-no answer "ask" could be replaced by "reply" -- with something more detailed. I'm sure that most of you, native English speakers, could find better solutions?I'm looking forward for them ! Jacques _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Sat Aug 3 21:55:46 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 21:55:46 -0400 Subject: Ask for an answer... In-Reply-To: References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> <999E247C-12B6-419E-858F-8500DCAE5327@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: I suspect that ask and answer both starting with the letter A is no accident due to their similar usage. Prompt for... might be better. Prompt [for] choice with "this" or "that" or "the other" Prompt [for] input with "Please type your birth date." ~Roger On Aug 3, 2013 5:59 PM, "Jacques Hausser" wrote: > It's perhaps not a brand new topic, but I floundered again, being confused > with "ask" and "answer" commands, so I let off some stream. > I was always bothered - and I'm not the only one - by the semantic of > these commands. In both cases, the script asks a question, and the user has > to answer. But the "answer" command is viewed as an order to the user, when > the ask command is viewed as a demand from the application. Two points of > view for two commands which in fact have very similar meanings. It seems > logical that these commands should be either described from the > application's side or from the user's side, and not the actual mixture of > both. > It would be (semantically) straightforward to change the meanings of the > extand commands, but a nightmare to re-actualize old code. So, synonymizing > (english?) only one of them, solutions could be: > > 1) if you prefer the point of view of the application: > > "answer" could be replaced by "request"-- for a demand needing a yes-or-no > answer > "ask" -- no change; for a demand requesting a more detailed answer, e.g. > your birthday? > > 2) if you prefer the point of view of the user > > "answer" -- no change; for a yes-or-no answer > "ask" could be replaced by "reply" -- with something more detailed. > > I'm sure that most of you, native English speakers, could find better > solutions?I'm looking forward for them ! > > Jacques > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacques.hausser at unil.ch Sun Aug 4 01:59:46 2013 From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 07:59:46 +0200 Subject: Ask for an answer... In-Reply-To: <8D05EC9AE12DF2C-157C-20F54@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> <999E247C-12B6-419E-858F-8500DCAE5327@wanadoo.fr> <8D05EC9AE12DF2C-157C-20F54@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Dunbar and Roger, Thank for your replies, Le 4 ao?t 2013 ? 03:32, dunbarx at aol.com a ?crit : > Jacques. > > > "Reply" and "Request" are both reserved words, but I get your point. Oups, sorry, I know that, but I forgot ? I should never post late in the evening. > But what really are your concerns? It is true that the two commands, which were born in 1987, are similar, in that they are both blocking, requiring user input to dismiss. One requires a choice among explicit answers, the other requires the user to type an answer, giving a much broader range for that answer. > > > They might be combined into a single compound command, I suppose. But apart from that, I do not see the ambiguity you mention. As for how they are described and from what point of view, I do not understand what you mean. Both are questions to the user, and "answer" is not a question, but? an answer. They are antonyms and should not be used as (quasi) synonyms. A single compound command would be better indeed, and the propositon of Roger: > Prompt [for] choice with "this" or "that" or "the other" > > Prompt [for] input with "Please type your birth date." seems excellent and is semantically crystal clear ! I would however keep "ask" for everything and drop "answer" completely Ask [for] choice with "this" or "that" or "the other" Ask [for] input with "Please type your birth date." Ask [for] file input "Save data as" with default file path Ask [for] file choice "select a file" etc? Jacques > > > Craig Newman > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jacques Hausser > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Sat, Aug 3, 2013 5:59 pm > Subject: Ask for an answer... > > > It's perhaps not a brand new topic, but I floundered again, being confused with > "ask" and "answer" commands, so I let off some stream. > I was always bothered - and I'm not the only one - by the semantic of these > commands. In both cases, the script asks a question, and the user has to answer. > But the "answer" command is viewed as an order to the user, when the ask command > is viewed as a demand from the application. Two points of view for two commands > which in fact have very similar meanings. It seems logical that these commands > should be either described from the application's side or from the user's side, > and not the actual mixture of both. > It would be (semantically) straightforward to change the meanings of the extand > commands, but a nightmare to re-actualize old code. So, synonymizing (english?) > only one of them, solutions could be: > > 1) if you prefer the point of view of the application: > > "answer" could be replaced by "request"-- for a demand needing a yes-or-no > answer > "ask" -- no change; for a demand requesting a more detailed answer, e.g. your > birthday? > > 2) if you prefer the point of view of the user > > "answer" -- no change; for a yes-or-no answer > "ask" could be replaced by "reply" -- with something more detailed. > > I'm sure that most of you, native English speakers, could find better > solutions?I'm looking forward for them ! > > Jacques > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ****************************************** Prof. Jacques Hausser Department of Ecology and Evolution Biophore / Sorge University of Lausanne CH 1015 Lausanne please use my private address: 6 route de Burtigny CH-1269 Bassins tel: ++ 41 22 366 19 40 mobile: ++ 41 79 757 05 24 E-Mail: jacques.hausser at unil.ch ******************************************* From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 4 02:41:28 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 23:41:28 -0700 Subject: Ask for an answer... In-Reply-To: <8D05EC9AE12DF2C-157C-20F54@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> <999E247C-12B6-419E-858F-8500DCAE5327@wanadoo.fr> <8D05EC9AE12DF2C-157C-20F54@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <179133249881.20130803234128@ahsoftware.net> Craig- Saturday, August 3, 2013, 6:32:56 PM, you wrote: > But apart from that, I do not see the ambiguity you mention. As for > how they are described and from what point of view, I do not > understand what you mean. I, on the other hand, understand quite well. After many years of xtalking, I still will use "ask" for "answer" and vice versa, and then have to correct things after the fact. I want, for example, to ask the user to specify a folder, but I have to have her answer the folder. I think these words were bad syntactic choices in the first place, but we are unfortunately stuck with them now. It *is* possible to create wrappers to alias them, but you don't get the same calling syntax that way. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jacques.hausser at unil.ch Sun Aug 4 05:19:35 2013 From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:19:35 +0200 Subject: Ask for an answer... In-Reply-To: References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> <999E247C-12B6-419E-858F-8500DCAE5327@wanadoo.fr> <8D05EC9AE12DF2C-157C-20F54@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <67C9F855-AC1C-44E6-A9A1-62230EA91473@unil.ch> Le 4 ao?t 2013 ? 07:59, Jacques Hausser a ?crit : > Dunbar and Roger, Oh, sorry, I did mean Craig and Roger ! Jacques From sims at ezpzapps.com Sun Aug 4 05:47:46 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:47:46 +0200 Subject: Scrolling group on iPad Message-ID: The iPad app has a set of groups like this: Each group has 3 controls Image - text field - text field I made 80 of these (3 part) groups and then grouped them all so they scroll with an iOS scroller. If i do not set the filename of the image control objects it will scroll with no problem on the iPad. When i do set the filename of an image to a file on my server then the entire set of groups locks up and will not scroll. Any ideas on how to fix this? I am really really not wanting to start messing with datagrids - i pray that is not the solution to this problem. ;-P TIA sims From gerry.orkin at gmail.com Sun Aug 4 06:03:35 2013 From: gerry.orkin at gmail.com (Gerry Orkin) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 03:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Scrolling group on iPad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1375610614736.aa688836@Nodemailer> Data grids are not all that complex once you get the hang of them. But I'm guessing that the link to online images is your weak spot. Can't they be located in the device? Gerry On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Jim sims wrote: > The iPad app has a set of groups like this: > Each group has 3 controls > Image - text field - text field > I made 80 of these (3 part) groups and then grouped them all so they scroll > with an iOS scroller. > If i do not set the filename of the image control objects it will scroll > with no problem on the iPad. > When i do set the filename of an image to a file on my server then the > entire set of groups locks up and will not scroll. > Any ideas on how to fix this? > I am really really not wanting to start messing with datagrids - i pray > that is not the solution to this problem. ;-P > TIA > sims > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sims at ezpzapps.com Sun Aug 4 06:13:24 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:13:24 +0200 Subject: Scrolling group on iPad In-Reply-To: <1375610614736.aa688836@Nodemailer> References: <1375610614736.aa688836@Nodemailer> Message-ID: Thank for the reply Gerry, Well they want to add and remove files a lot so they also adjust a tab delim text file (not an issue here) and upload files as needed. The problem seems to be when the scroll takes place after the images/filenames are loaded. I have played with datagrids before but this method seems so much easier to deal with - if i can get the scrolling running :-P sims On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Gerry Orkin wrote: > Data grids are not all that complex once you get the hang of them. But I'm > guessing that the link to online images is your weak spot. Can't they be > located in the device? > > > Gerry > > On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Jim sims > > wrote: > > > The iPad app has a set of groups like this: > > Each group has 3 controls > > Image - text field - text field > > I made 80 of these (3 part) groups and then grouped them all so they > scroll > > with an iOS scroller. > > If i do not set the filename of the image control objects it will scroll > > with no problem on the iPad. > > When i do set the filename of an image to a file on my server then the > > entire set of groups locks up and will not scroll. > > Any ideas on how to fix this? > > I am really really not wanting to start messing with datagrids - i pray > > that is not the solution to this problem. ;-P > > TIA > > sims > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From scott at elementarysoftware.com Sun Aug 4 07:00:31 2013 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 04:00:31 -0700 Subject: Scrolling group on iPad In-Reply-To: References: <1375610614736.aa688836@Nodemailer> Message-ID: <8A35C65B-D02C-4824-9FAC-E559B0ECD86B@elementarysoftware.com> Jim, have you tried caching the images to the device first and then pointing at the cached files? (I don't believe this has anything to do with dataGrid or not dataGrid.) -- Scott Morrow On Aug 4, 2013, at 3:13 AM, Jim sims wrote: > Thank for the reply Gerry, > > Well they want to add and remove files a lot so they also adjust a tab > delim text file (not an issue here) and upload files as needed. > > The problem seems to be when the scroll takes place after > the images/filenames are loaded. > > I have played with datagrids before but this method seems so much easier to > deal with - if i can get the scrolling running :-P > > sims > > On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Gerry Orkin wrote: > >> Data grids are not all that complex once you get the hang of them. But I'm >> guessing that the link to online images is your weak spot. Can't they be >> located in the device? >> >> >> Gerry >> >> On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Jim sims > >> wrote: >> >>> The iPad app has a set of groups like this: >>> Each group has 3 controls >>> Image - text field - text field >>> I made 80 of these (3 part) groups and then grouped them all so they >> scroll >>> with an iOS scroller. >>> If i do not set the filename of the image control objects it will scroll >>> with no problem on the iPad. >>> When i do set the filename of an image to a file on my server then the >>> entire set of groups locks up and will not scroll. >>> Any ideas on how to fix this? >>> I am really really not wanting to start messing with datagrids - i pray >>> that is not the solution to this problem. ;-P >>> TIA >>> sims >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sims at ezpzapps.com Sun Aug 4 07:27:33 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:27:33 +0200 Subject: Scrolling group on iPad In-Reply-To: <8A35C65B-D02C-4824-9FAC-E559B0ECD86B@elementarysoftware.com> References: <1375610614736.aa688836@Nodemailer> <8A35C65B-D02C-4824-9FAC-E559B0ECD86B@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the reply Scott, You must be referring to "load" as in "load URL bla blah" Didn't think that was ok on iOS but reading the dictionary it sounds "sort of ok" - done without liburl in the background. Will give it a shot and see. Am in Venice, swapped my flat (flat for flat) for this excellent one that has a most excellent location - del Bovolo staircase outside the bedroom window. Hate to spend the day chasing this bug :-P but ya gotta do what ya gotta do...i reckon. sims On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: > Jim, have you tried caching the images to the device first and then > pointing at the cached files? (I don't believe this has anything to do with > dataGrid or not dataGrid.) > > -- > Scott Morrow > > _________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Sun Aug 4 07:42:12 2013 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:42:12 +0100 Subject: Scrolling group on iPad In-Reply-To: References: , <1375610614736.aa688836@Nodemailer>, , <8A35C65B-D02C-4824-9FAC-E559B0ECD86B@elementarysoftware.com>, Message-ID: Jim... Have a look at the 'prepare image' command in the dictionary... this will help you here > Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:27:33 +0200 > Subject: Re: Scrolling group on iPad > From: sims at ezpzapps.com > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Thanks for the reply Scott, > > You must be referring to "load" as in "load URL bla blah" > > Didn't think that was ok on iOS but reading the dictionary it sounds "sort > of ok" - done without liburl in the background. > > Will give it a shot and see. > > Am in Venice, swapped my flat (flat for flat) for this excellent one that > has a most excellent location - del Bovolo staircase outside the bedroom > window. Hate to spend the day chasing this bug :-P but ya gotta do what ya > gotta do...i reckon. > > sims > > On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: > > > Jim, have you tried caching the images to the device first and then > > pointing at the cached files? (I don't believe this has anything to do with > > dataGrid or not dataGrid.) > > > > -- > > Scott Morrow > > > > _________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at elementarysoftware.com Sun Aug 4 09:12:26 2013 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 06:12:26 -0700 Subject: Scrolling group on iPad In-Reply-To: References: <1375610614736.aa688836@Nodemailer> <8A35C65B-D02C-4824-9FAC-E559B0ECD86B@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: Yes, 'load' I'm glad you were able to take my vague suggestion and clarify it! Clarified it for me, too :- ) If you are using LC version 6 then John's suggestion of 'prepare image' sounds great. -- Scott On Aug 4, 2013, at 4:27 AM, Jim sims wrote: > Thanks for the reply Scott, > > You must be referring to "load" as in "load URL bla blah" > > Didn't think that was ok on iOS but reading the dictionary it sounds "sort > of ok" - done without liburl in the background. > > Will give it a shot and see. > > Am in Venice, swapped my flat (flat for flat) for this excellent one that > has a most excellent location - del Bovolo staircase outside the bedroom > window. Hate to spend the day chasing this bug :-P but ya gotta do what ya > gotta do...i reckon. > > sims > > On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: > >> Jim, have you tried caching the images to the device first and then >> pointing at the cached files? (I don't believe this has anything to do with >> dataGrid or not dataGrid.) >> >> -- >> Scott Morrow >> >> _________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sims at ezpzapps.com Sun Aug 4 09:35:33 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 15:35:33 +0200 Subject: Scrolling group on iPad In-Reply-To: References: <1375610614736.aa688836@Nodemailer> <8A35C65B-D02C-4824-9FAC-E559B0ECD86B@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: I'm pretty sure now that it isn't the loading of images that is the problem. I added code that verifies when all thumbnail images are loaded. When i have only a few images the group scrolls well - up and down all i want. When i have many more images (say 20 instead of 7) then the group starts to scroll and then freezes. Tried lockloc of all controls but no happiness. With a scrolling list fid i recall there is a limit to the number of lines you can have and scroll with iOS - maybe around 200 lines. This problem i now have feels like that one to me. Do datagrids have a limit to the number of rows? If i recall i think he loads only what is viewable and perhaps that gets around an issue like i now have. Sooooo i need a row consisting of: image - text field - text field Anyone got an example of something similar on a datagrid that i can dissect? Thanks for all the replies people. sims -- On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: > Yes, 'load' I'm glad you were able to take my vague suggestion and > clarify it! Clarified it for me, too :- ) > > If you are using LC version 6 then John's suggestion of 'prepare image' > sounds great. > > -- > Scott > > On Aug 4, 2013, at 4:27 AM, Jim sims > > wrote: > > > Thanks for the reply Scott, > > > > You must be referring to "load" as in "load URL bla blah" > > > > Didn't think that was ok on iOS but reading the dictionary it sounds > "sort > > of ok" - done without liburl in the background. > > > > Will give it a shot and see. > > > > Am in Venice, swapped my flat (flat for flat) for this excellent one that > > has a most excellent location - del Bovolo staircase outside the bedroom > > window. Hate to spend the day chasing this bug :-P but ya gotta do what > ya > > gotta do...i reckon. > > > > sims > > > > On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: > > > >> Jim, have you tried caching the images to the device first and then > >> pointing at the cached files? (I don't believe this has anything to do > with > >> dataGrid or not dataGrid.) > >> > >> -- > >> Scott Morrow > >> > >> _________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Sun Aug 4 10:01:37 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ask for an answer... In-Reply-To: <67C9F855-AC1C-44E6-A9A1-62230EA91473@unil.ch> References: <8D05DDD39F4BB7E-13D0-20333@webmail-m205.sysops.aol.com> <999E247C-12B6-419E-858F-8500DCAE5327@wanadoo.fr> <8D05EC9AE12DF2C-157C-20F54@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> <67C9F855-AC1C-44E6-A9A1-62230EA91473@unil.ch> Message-ID: <8D05F3245428ABC-167C-26251@webmail-d259.sysops.aol.com> Jacques, Mark. Oh. You mean the actual names of the commands? I thought it was the structure of their implementation. I could not agree more. It took me years to remember that "ask" had the field, and "answer" had the buttons. I am way ahead of Mark, in that I do not confuse them anymore. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Jacques Hausser To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Sun, Aug 4, 2013 5:20 am Subject: Re: Ask for an answer... Le 4 ao?t 2013 ? 07:59, Jacques Hausser a ?crit : > Dunbar and Roger, Oh, sorry, I did mean Craig and Roger ! Jacques _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sims at ezpzapps.com Sun Aug 4 12:21:29 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 18:21:29 +0200 Subject: Scrolling group on iPad In-Reply-To: References: <1375610614736.aa688836@Nodemailer> <8A35C65B-D02C-4824-9FAC-E559B0ECD86B@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: Solved - i think Just in case somone else has a similar issue here is what i did. At scrollerBeginDrag i set the filenames of the images to empty but kept text field text. At scrollerEndDrag i reloaded the filenames into the images. These images are all thumbnails so they load very quickly, plus there are not that many. This will be done at a museum with a local server and apple airports things (maybe the only bottleneck) so it should be quick. My test was fast with a server in Texas and me in Venice, Italy...wait...Jeez what am i doing at this desk!! Venice! Going to get gelato at the Rialto Bridge!!! Ciao ciao! sims -- On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Jim sims wrote: > I'm pretty sure now that it isn't the loading of images that is the > problem. I added code that verifies when all thumbnail images are loaded. > > When i have only a few images the group scrolls well - up and down all i > want. > > When i have many more images (say 20 instead of 7) then the group starts > to scroll and then freezes. > > Tried lockloc of all controls but no happiness. > > With a scrolling list fid i recall there is a limit to the number of lines > you can have and scroll with iOS - maybe around 200 lines. This problem i > now have feels like that one to me. > > Do datagrids have a limit to the number of rows? If i recall i think he > loads only what is viewable and perhaps that gets around an issue like i > now have. > > Sooooo i need a row consisting of: image - text field - text field > > Anyone got an example of something similar on a datagrid that i can > dissect? > > > Thanks for all the replies people. > > sims > -- > > > On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: > >> Yes, 'load' I'm glad you were able to take my vague suggestion and >> clarify it! Clarified it for me, too :- ) >> >> If you are using LC version 6 then John's suggestion of 'prepare image' >> sounds great. >> >> -- >> Scott >> >> On Aug 4, 2013, at 4:27 AM, Jim sims wrote: >> >> > Thanks for the reply Scott, >> > >> > You must be referring to "load" as in "load URL bla blah" >> > >> > Didn't think that was ok on iOS but reading the dictionary it sounds >> "sort >> > of ok" - done without liburl in the background. >> > >> > Will give it a shot and see. >> > >> > Am in Venice, swapped my flat (flat for flat) for this excellent one >> that >> > has a most excellent location - del Bovolo staircase outside the bedroom >> > window. Hate to spend the day chasing this bug :-P but ya gotta do what >> ya >> > gotta do...i reckon. >> > >> > sims >> > >> > On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: >> > >> >> Jim, have you tried caching the images to the device first and then >> >> pointing at the cached files? (I don't believe this has anything to do >> with >> >> dataGrid or not dataGrid.) >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Scott Morrow >> >> >> >> _________________ >> >> use-livecode mailing list >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 4 14:01:08 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:01:08 -0500 Subject: Data-Grid usage In-Reply-To: References: <51FD1E98.50808@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <51FE96E4.1040201@hyperactivesw.com> I think my proposed method will still work. When the user leaves the newly created card, set the name of the card to the data you want to represent it. That can be the name field, or whatever else you want the user to see. To avoid duplicates, append an ID or part of a description field or anything else appropriate to serve as the card name. On preOpenCard in the index card, set the text of the list field to the cardnames of the stack. On 8/3/13 11:13 AM, Vaughn Clement wrote: > Hi All > > The project I am trying to develope is as follows: > > I created a stack where a user can edit normal fields and then I can either > use the card id or a field as the reference field on the main stack card to > send the user to whatever card they click on in the main card. It can be a > list or a data grid or whatever control will work. > > The user adds a new card first. The user opens the new blank card with > preset fields to add data. The entry is the key where the reference data > (say the name field) is used to help the user locate that card that was > added. When they return to the main card their (Name or additional data say > card ID) is used to identify the card they want to view or edit later. This > is like a list view of all cards in the stack for the user added data. It > is an index system that adds a new card link on the main card every time a > new card is added. > NOTE: the reference cards need to feed the index list and not require the > user to add the same data on the list view. > Several years ago I did this in HyperCard but I don't recall how it was > done. > > Thank you > > Vaughn Clement > > Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) > *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* > Skype: vaughn.clement > https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement > FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com > LogMeIn also avaialble > Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 > Ph. 928-254-9062 > > > On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 8:15 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 8/2/13 1:26 PM, Vaughn Clement wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> (New to LiveCode) >>> >>> I would like to have a stack index or contents for each card where I >>> determine the fields in the data-grid. I would also like to have a control >>> in the row that would go to the card for the data in the row. >>> >> >> I agree with Craig that researching and following hints is a great way to >> learn, but when you're really, really new, sometimes you need a little more >> than that to get started without being too frustrated. >> >> I would not use a datagrid for what you want, it's way overkill. All you >> need is a simple list field. What you want to do is pretty common, here's >> how I do it: >> >> Name each card descriptively and uniquely. That is, name it with the same >> string that should appear in the list. >> >> On the index card that has the list field, you can populate the list in >> one line of code: >> >> put the cardnames of this stack into field "listField" -- put the >> actual name of the field in the quotes >> >> Now you have automatic linkages, and all you need to do is script the >> field to respond to a click: >> >> on mouseUp >> put the clicktext into tCardName >> go card tCardName >> end mouseUp >> >> This can be further reduced to a single line: >> >> go card (the clicktext) >> >> Normally the clicktext returns only the word under the mouse, but in a >> list field it returns the entire line. That's why this works. >> >> If your stack is static and no cards are ever removed or added, you can >> put the cardnames into the list field once from the message box during >> development and forget about it. If the cards will change, then you'd want >> to execute that statement in a preOpenCard handler in the card script so >> that it will update every time the card opens. >> >> I now return you to generic hint mode. :) >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From iowahengst at mac.com Sun Aug 4 15:24:00 2013 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 14:24:00 -0500 Subject: Retina iPad Splash Message-ID: <0E46580B-21A2-4E8F-A48C-C904B3D64AA4@mac.com> Hi All, Based on comments on the list and forum, I'm going to try to submit an app without the Retina size? but including a 144 icon and the Retina Splash. But, I hit a bump... I'm using OSX 8.3 and have tried LC 6.1 and 6.1.1 rc1. The 72 and 144 icons and 1024 x 768 splash were accepted by LC. I tried placing the retina landscape splash and received an alert that it was the wrong size. The art is 2048 x 1536. I've set the Status Bar to hidden. The LC alert read: Image is not of the required dimensions (2048,1496). Thoughts? be well, randy hengst From slylabs13 at me.com Sun Aug 4 15:24:54 2013 From: slylabs13 at me.com (Robert Sneidar) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 12:24:54 -0700 Subject: Scrolling group on iPad In-Reply-To: References: <1375610614736.aa688836@Nodemailer> <8A35C65B-D02C-4824-9FAC-E559B0ECD86B@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: I may have asked you before I don't remember. I had a friend a long time ago named Jim Sims who used to have a handyman business in So Cal. Would that be you? Bob Sneidar On Aug 4, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Jim sims wrote: > Solved - i think > > Just in case somone else has a similar issue here is what i did. > > At scrollerBeginDrag i set the filenames of the images to empty but kept > text field text. > > At scrollerEndDrag i reloaded the filenames into the images. > > These images are all thumbnails so they load very quickly, plus there are > not that many. > > This will be done at a museum with a local server and apple airports things > (maybe the only bottleneck) so it should be quick. > > My test was fast with a server in Texas and me in Venice, > Italy...wait...Jeez what am i doing at this desk!! Venice! Going to > get gelato at the > Rialto Bridge!!! Ciao ciao! > > sims > -- > > On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Jim sims wrote: > >> I'm pretty sure now that it isn't the loading of images that is the >> problem. I added code that verifies when all thumbnail images are loaded. >> >> When i have only a few images the group scrolls well - up and down all i >> want. >> >> When i have many more images (say 20 instead of 7) then the group starts >> to scroll and then freezes. >> >> Tried lockloc of all controls but no happiness. >> >> With a scrolling list fid i recall there is a limit to the number of lines >> you can have and scroll with iOS - maybe around 200 lines. This problem i >> now have feels like that one to me. >> >> Do datagrids have a limit to the number of rows? If i recall i think he >> loads only what is viewable and perhaps that gets around an issue like i >> now have. >> >> Sooooo i need a row consisting of: image - text field - text field >> >> Anyone got an example of something similar on a datagrid that i can >> dissect? >> >> >> Thanks for all the replies people. >> >> sims >> -- >> >> >> On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: >> >>> Yes, 'load' I'm glad you were able to take my vague suggestion and >>> clarify it! Clarified it for me, too :- ) >>> >>> If you are using LC version 6 then John's suggestion of 'prepare image' >>> sounds great. >>> >>> -- >>> Scott >>> >>> On Aug 4, 2013, at 4:27 AM, Jim sims wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for the reply Scott, >>>> >>>> You must be referring to "load" as in "load URL bla blah" >>>> >>>> Didn't think that was ok on iOS but reading the dictionary it sounds >>> "sort >>>> of ok" - done without liburl in the background. >>>> >>>> Will give it a shot and see. >>>> >>>> Am in Venice, swapped my flat (flat for flat) for this excellent one >>> that >>>> has a most excellent location - del Bovolo staircase outside the bedroom >>>> window. Hate to spend the day chasing this bug :-P but ya gotta do what >>> ya >>>> gotta do...i reckon. >>>> >>>> sims >>>> >>>> On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim, have you tried caching the images to the device first and then >>>>> pointing at the cached files? (I don't believe this has anything to do >>> with >>>>> dataGrid or not dataGrid.) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Scott Morrow >>>>> >>>>> _________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Sun Aug 4 15:39:34 2013 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 20:39:34 +0100 Subject: Retina iPad Splash In-Reply-To: <0E46580B-21A2-4E8F-A48C-C904B3D64AA4@mac.com> References: <0E46580B-21A2-4E8F-A48C-C904B3D64AA4@mac.com> Message-ID: Randy... I am, sort of, in the same position and quandry as yourself about what size to submit an ipad app to Apple... I too have decided to go the 1024 route... As regards 'splash screens',I have four app in the itunes store and have never included a splash screen and I don't intend to use a 'splash screen' with this ipad submission... that's my way around it...:-) > From: iowahengst at mac.com > Subject: Retina iPad Splash > Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:24:00 -0500 > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > Hi All, > > Based on comments on the list and forum, I'm going to try to submit an app without the Retina size? but including a 144 icon and the Retina Splash. > > But, I hit a bump... > > I'm using OSX 8.3 and have tried LC 6.1 and 6.1.1 rc1. > > The 72 and 144 icons and 1024 x 768 splash were accepted by LC. > > I tried placing the retina landscape splash and received an alert that it was the wrong size. > > The art is 2048 x 1536. > > I've set the Status Bar to hidden. > > The LC alert read: Image is not of the required dimensions (2048,1496). > > Thoughts? > > be well, > randy hengst > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sims at ezpzapps.com Sun Aug 4 15:42:58 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 21:42:58 +0200 Subject: Scrolling group on iPad In-Reply-To: References: <1375610614736.aa688836@Nodemailer> <8A35C65B-D02C-4824-9FAC-E559B0ECD86B@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Robert Sneidar wrote: > I may have asked you before I don't remember. I had a friend a long time > ago named Jim Sims who used to have a handyman business in So Cal. Would > that be you? > > Bob Sneidar > > > On Aug 4, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Jim sims wrote: > > > Solved - i think > > > > Just in case somone else has a similar issue here is what i did. > > > > At scrollerBeginDrag i set the filenames of the images to empty but kept > > text field text. > > > > At scrollerEndDrag i reloaded the filenames into the images. > > > > These images are all thumbnails so they load very quickly, plus there are > > not that many. > > > > This will be done at a museum with a local server and apple airports > things > > (maybe the only bottleneck) so it should be quick. > > > > My test was fast with a server in Texas and me in Venice, > > Italy...wait...Jeez what am i doing at this desk!! Venice! Going to > > get gelato at the > > Rialto Bridge!!! Ciao ciao! > > > > sims > > -- > > > > On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Jim sims wrote: > > > >> I'm pretty sure now that it isn't the loading of images that is the > >> problem. I added code that verifies when all thumbnail images are > loaded. > >> > >> When i have only a few images the group scrolls well - up and down all i > >> want. > >> > >> When i have many more images (say 20 instead of 7) then the group starts > >> to scroll and then freezes. > >> > >> Tried lockloc of all controls but no happiness. > >> > >> With a scrolling list fid i recall there is a limit to the number of > lines > >> you can have and scroll with iOS - maybe around 200 lines. This problem > i > >> now have feels like that one to me. > >> > >> Do datagrids have a limit to the number of rows? If i recall i think he > >> loads only what is viewable and perhaps that gets around an issue like i > >> now have. > >> > >> Sooooo i need a row consisting of: image - text field - text field > >> > >> Anyone got an example of something similar on a datagrid that i can > >> dissect? > >> > >> > >> Thanks for all the replies people. > >> > >> sims > >> -- > >> > >> > >> On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: > >> > >>> Yes, 'load' I'm glad you were able to take my vague suggestion and > >>> clarify it! Clarified it for me, too :- ) > >>> > >>> If you are using LC version 6 then John's suggestion of 'prepare image' > >>> sounds great. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Scott > >>> > >>> On Aug 4, 2013, at 4:27 AM, Jim sims wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thanks for the reply Scott, > >>>> > >>>> You must be referring to "load" as in "load URL bla blah" > >>>> > >>>> Didn't think that was ok on iOS but reading the dictionary it sounds > >>> "sort > >>>> of ok" - done without liburl in the background. > >>>> > >>>> Will give it a shot and see. > >>>> > >>>> Am in Venice, swapped my flat (flat for flat) for this excellent one > >>> that > >>>> has a most excellent location - del Bovolo staircase outside the > bedroom > >>>> window. Hate to spend the day chasing this bug :-P but ya gotta do > what > >>> ya > >>>> gotta do...i reckon. > >>>> > >>>> sims > >>>> > >>>> On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Jim, have you tried caching the images to the device first and then > >>>>> pointing at the cached files? (I don't believe this has anything to > do > >>> with > >>>>> dataGrid or not dataGrid.) > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Scott Morrow > >>>>> > >>>>> _________________ > >>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscrib From sims at ezpzapps.com Sun Aug 4 15:45:55 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 21:45:55 +0200 Subject: Scrolling group on iPad In-Reply-To: References: <1375610614736.aa688836@Nodemailer> <8A35C65B-D02C-4824-9FAC-E559B0ECD86B@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: Hello Bob - yes i think ya did and no it wasn't me :-) if ya owe him lots of money then it might have been me, maybe. sims On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Robert Sneidar wrote: > I may have asked you before I don't remember. I had a friend a long time > ago named Jim Sims who used to have a handyman business in So Cal. Would > that be you? > > Bob Sneidar > > > On Aug 4, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Jim sims wrote: > > > Solved - i think > > > > Just in case somone else has a similar issue here is what i did. > > > > At scrollerBeginDrag i set the filenames of the images to empty but kept > > text field text. > > > > At scrollerEndDrag i reloaded the filenames into the images. > > > > These images are all thumbnails so they load very quickly, plus there are > > not that many. > > > > This will be done at a museum with a local server and apple airports > things > > (maybe the only bottleneck) so it should be quick. > > > > My test was fast with a server in Texas and me in Venice, > > Italy...wait...Jeez what am i doing at this desk!! Venice! Going to > > get gelato at the > > Rialto Bridge!!! Ciao ciao! > > > > sims > > -- > > > > On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Jim sims wrote: > > > >> I'm pretty sure now that it isn't the loading of images that is the > >> problem. I added code that verifies when all thumbnail images are > loaded. > >> > >> When i have only a few images the group scrolls well - up and down all i > >> want. > >> > >> When i have many more images (say 20 instead of 7) then the group starts > >> to scroll and then freezes. > >> > >> Tried lockloc of all controls but no happiness. > >> > >> With a scrolling list fid i recall there is a limit to the number of > lines > >> you can have and scroll with iOS - maybe around 200 lines. This problem > i > >> now have feels like that one to me. > >> > >> Do datagrids have a limit to the number of rows? If i recall i think he > >> loads only what is viewable and perhaps that gets around an issue like i > >> now have. > >> > >> Sooooo i need a row consisting of: image - text field - text field > >> > >> Anyone got an example of something similar on a datagrid that i can > >> dissect? > >> > >> > >> Thanks for all the replies people. > >> > >> sims > >> -- > >> > >> > >> On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: > >> > >>> Yes, 'load' I'm glad you were able to take my vague suggestion and > >>> clarify it! Clarified it for me, too :- ) > >>> > >>> If you are using LC version 6 then John's suggestion of 'prepare image' > >>> sounds great. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Scott > >>> > >>> On Aug 4, 2013, at 4:27 AM, Jim sims wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thanks for the reply Scott, > >>>> > >>>> You must be referring to "load" as in "load URL bla blah" > >>>> > >>>> Didn't think that was ok on iOS but reading the dictionary it sounds > >>> "sort > >>>> of ok" - done without liburl in the background. > >>>> > >>>> Will give it a shot and see. > >>>> > >>>> Am in Venice, swapped my flat (flat for flat) for this excellent one > >>> that > >>>> has a most excellent location - del Bovolo staircase outside the > bedroom > >>>> window. Hate to spend the day chasing this bug :-P but ya gotta do > what > >>> ya > >>>> gotta do...i reckon. > >>>> > >>>> sims > >>>> > >>>> On Sunday, August 4, 2013, Scott Morrow wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Jim, have you tried caching the images to the device first and then > >>>>> pointing at the cached files? (I don't believe this has anything to > do > >>> with > >>>>> dataGrid or not dataGrid.) > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Scott Morrow > >>>>> > >>>>> _________________ > >>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscrib From iowahengst at mac.com Sun Aug 4 17:41:25 2013 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 16:41:25 -0500 Subject: Retina iPad Splash In-Reply-To: References: <0E46580B-21A2-4E8F-A48C-C904B3D64AA4@mac.com> Message-ID: Well, the package contents of the build show both the 1024 and 2048 splash screens? so, I'm going to assume this is an error with LC and not the actual build. I'll keep all posted. On Aug 4, 2013, at 2:39 PM, John Dixon wrote: > Randy... > > I am, sort of, in the same position and quandry as yourself about what size to submit an ipad app to Apple... I too have decided to go the 1024 route... > > As regards 'splash screens',I have four app in the itunes store and have never included a splash screen and I don't intend to use a 'splash screen' with this ipad submission... > > that's my way around it...:-) > >> From: iowahengst at mac.com >> Subject: Retina iPad Splash >> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:24:00 -0500 >> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> >> Hi All, >> >> Based on comments on the list and forum, I'm going to try to submit an app without the Retina size? but including a 144 icon and the Retina Splash. >> >> But, I hit a bump... >> >> I'm using OSX 8.3 and have tried LC 6.1 and 6.1.1 rc1. >> >> The 72 and 144 icons and 1024 x 768 splash were accepted by LC. >> >> I tried placing the retina landscape splash and received an alert that it was the wrong size. >> >> The art is 2048 x 1536. >> >> I've set the Status Bar to hidden. >> >> The LC alert read: Image is not of the required dimensions (2048,1496). >> >> Thoughts? >> >> be well, >> randy hengst >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From vclement at gmail.com Sun Aug 4 18:20:08 2013 From: vclement at gmail.com (Vaughn Clement) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 15:20:08 -0700 Subject: Data-Grid usage In-Reply-To: <51FE96E4.1040201@hyperactivesw.com> References: <51FD1E98.50808@hyperactivesw.com> <51FE96E4.1040201@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi I am traveling until next Saturday and will not have time to test the approach. I will hold this for then. Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 11:01 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I think my proposed method will still work. When the user leaves the newly > created card, set the name of the card to the data you want to represent > it. That can be the name field, or whatever else you want the user to see. > To avoid duplicates, append an ID or part of a description field or > anything else appropriate to serve as the card name. > > On preOpenCard in the index card, set the text of the list field to the > cardnames of the stack. > > > > On 8/3/13 11:13 AM, Vaughn Clement wrote: > >> Hi All >> >> The project I am trying to develope is as follows: >> >> I created a stack where a user can edit normal fields and then I can >> either >> use the card id or a field as the reference field on the main stack card >> to >> send the user to whatever card they click on in the main card. It can be a >> list or a data grid or whatever control will work. >> >> The user adds a new card first. The user opens the new blank card with >> preset fields to add data. The entry is the key where the reference data >> (say the name field) is used to help the user locate that card that was >> added. When they return to the main card their (Name or additional data >> say >> card ID) is used to identify the card they want to view or edit later. >> This >> is like a list view of all cards in the stack for the user added data. It >> is an index system that adds a new card link on the main card every time a >> new card is added. >> NOTE: the reference cards need to feed the index list and not require the >> user to add the same data on the list view. >> Several years ago I did this in HyperCard but I don't recall how it was >> done. >> >> Thank you >> >> Vaughn Clement >> >> Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) >> *http://www.**appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/**home-page/* >> >> Skype: vaughn.clement >> https://secure.join.me/**appsbyvclement >> FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com >> LogMeIn also avaialble >> Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 >> Ph. 928-254-9062 >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 8:15 AM, J. Landman Gay >> **wrote: >> >> On 8/2/13 1:26 PM, Vaughn Clement wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>>> >>>> (New to LiveCode) >>>> >>>> I would like to have a stack index or contents for each card where I >>>> determine the fields in the data-grid. I would also like to have a >>>> control >>>> in the row that would go to the card for the data in the row. >>>> >>>> >>> I agree with Craig that researching and following hints is a great way to >>> learn, but when you're really, really new, sometimes you need a little >>> more >>> than that to get started without being too frustrated. >>> >>> I would not use a datagrid for what you want, it's way overkill. All you >>> need is a simple list field. What you want to do is pretty common, here's >>> how I do it: >>> >>> Name each card descriptively and uniquely. That is, name it with the same >>> string that should appear in the list. >>> >>> On the index card that has the list field, you can populate the list in >>> one line of code: >>> >>> put the cardnames of this stack into field "listField" -- put the >>> actual name of the field in the quotes >>> >>> Now you have automatic linkages, and all you need to do is script the >>> field to respond to a click: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> put the clicktext into tCardName >>> go card tCardName >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> This can be further reduced to a single line: >>> >>> go card (the clicktext) >>> >>> Normally the clicktext returns only the word under the mouse, but in a >>> list field it returns the entire line. That's why this works. >>> >>> If your stack is static and no cards are ever removed or added, you can >>> put the cardnames into the list field once from the message box during >>> development and forget about it. If the cards will change, then you'd >>> want >>> to execute that statement in a preOpenCard handler in the card script so >>> that it will update every time the card opens. >>> >>> I now return you to generic hint mode. :) >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> >>> ______________________________****_________________ >>> >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/****mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> <**http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> > >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Aug 4 21:17:13 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 21:17:13 -0400 Subject: Retina iPad Splash In-Reply-To: References: <0E46580B-21A2-4E8F-A48C-C904B3D64AA4@mac.com> Message-ID: Just an FYI, the ios7 recommendations seem to say that splash screens are discouraged... On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Randy Hengst wrote: > Well, the package contents of the build show both the 1024 and 2048 splash > screens? so, I'm going to assume this is an error with LC and not the > actual build. I'll keep all posted. > > > On Aug 4, 2013, at 2:39 PM, John Dixon wrote: > > > Randy... > > > > I am, sort of, in the same position and quandry as yourself about what > size to submit an ipad app to Apple... I too have decided to go the 1024 > route... > > > > As regards 'splash screens',I have four app in the itunes store and have > never included a splash screen and I don't intend to use a 'splash screen' > with this ipad submission... > > > > that's my way around it...:-) > > > >> From: iowahengst at mac.com > >> Subject: Retina iPad Splash > >> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:24:00 -0500 > >> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > >> > >> Hi All, > >> > >> Based on comments on the list and forum, I'm going to try to submit an > app without the Retina size? but including a 144 icon and the Retina Splash. > >> > >> But, I hit a bump... > >> > >> I'm using OSX 8.3 and have tried LC 6.1 and 6.1.1 rc1. > >> > >> The 72 and 144 icons and 1024 x 768 splash were accepted by LC. > >> > >> I tried placing the retina landscape splash and received an alert that > it was the wrong size. > >> > >> The art is 2048 x 1536. > >> > >> I've set the Status Bar to hidden. > >> > >> The LC alert read: Image is not of the required dimensions (2048,1496). > >> > >> Thoughts? > >> > >> be well, > >> randy hengst > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Aug 4 21:33:22 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 11:33:22 +1000 Subject: Retina iPad Splash In-Reply-To: References: <0E46580B-21A2-4E8F-A48C-C904B3D64AA4@mac.com> Message-ID: <5CEF9FD4-F5D2-45FE-A1CF-A5A22DEA0164@sweattechnologies.com> On 05/08/2013, at 11:17 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Just an FYI, the ios7 recommendations seem to say that splash screens are > discouraged... Splash screens have been discouraged for quite a while. What you're meant to do is use an image of your app's screen with anything that needs to load removed so it looks like the data is being loaded. -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From sims at ezpzapps.com Mon Aug 5 01:28:57 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 07:28:57 +0200 Subject: Prepare image usage Message-ID: I'm trying to understand proper use of "prepare image" prepare image "myImage" prepare image file "/Disk/Folder/logo.jpg" If anyone knows, please tell me if this usage sounds correct. I have 100 thumbnail images on a server that I want to use and reuse, in a very quick display manner. When the iPad app opens I have a handler do a repeat and prepare all of them using something like this: prepare image file "http://myRemoteServer.com/Folder/thumb_1.jpg" This action downloads them and puts them into cache for later use. When I want to use them later I can do something like this with an image object: set the filename of image "firstOne" to "http://myRemoteServer.com/Folder/thumb_1.jpg" By doing the above the images are available in cache and do not need to be downloaded all the time from the server. Somewhat similar to "load" but evidently optimized for iOS usage. Is that the right idea? TIA sims From gerry.orkin at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 01:45:56 2013 From: gerry.orkin at gmail.com (Gerry Orkin) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 15:45:56 +1000 Subject: Prepare image usage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: prepare image file "http://yourserver.com/logos/logo.jpg"... ...should do it. Assuming of course that it works on online images... Gerry On 05/08/2013, at 3:28 PM, Jim sims wrote: > I have 100 thumbnail images on a server that I want to use and reuse, in a > very quick display manner. From gerry.orkin at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 01:52:22 2013 From: gerry.orkin at gmail.com (Gerry Orkin) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 15:52:22 +1000 Subject: Prepare image usage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <90910A3E-7C78-4701-8821-D551734622D8@gmail.com> Whoops. Sorry. Yes, you have the right idea. That should work. I believe you can also set the size of the image cache using imageCacheLimit - that will maximise the chance that your images won't be flushed from the cache. I have no idea if the image cache persists across app restarts but based on my experience with other kinds of data it should. Gerry On 05/08/2013, at 3:45 PM, Gerry Orkin wrote: > prepare image file "http://yourserver.com/logos/logo.jpg"... > > ...should do it. Assuming of course that it works on online images... From sims at ezpzapps.com Mon Aug 5 02:29:42 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 08:29:42 +0200 Subject: Prepare image usage In-Reply-To: <90910A3E-7C78-4701-8821-D551734622D8@gmail.com> References: <90910A3E-7C78-4701-8821-D551734622D8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Just did a test that displayed the list of file urls taken from a tab delim text file on a server. Ran it in the iPad simulator. It reported start of the repeat with an answer that showed me the correct files It then looped through all files i wanted and correctly displayed the url I put a one sec wait do i could be sure of the urls Without the prepare in the code it went through nicely, showing me the urls. But if it had either of the following in the repeat structure: prepare image tImage Or prepare image file tImage It stopped on the first image in the list and went no further. That would seem to indicate that i am not using this properly or does not work or what? My strategy of setting the filename of images to empty allows me to scroll and resetting the filenames works but i want to speed this up so it displays quicker. Maybe i need to return to the venerable, ancient "load"? sims -- On Monday, August 5, 2013, Gerry Orkin wrote: > Whoops. Sorry. Yes, you have the right idea. That should work. > > I believe you can also set the size of the image cache using > imageCacheLimit - that will maximise the chance that your images won't be > flushed from the cache. I have no idea if the image cache persists across > app restarts but based on my experience with other kinds of data it should. > > Gerry > > > > On 05/08/2013, at 3:45 PM, Gerry Orkin > > wrote: > > > prepare image file "http://yourserver.com/logos/logo.jpg"... > > > > ...should do it. Assuming of course that it works on online images... > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sims at ezpzapps.com Mon Aug 5 02:36:43 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 08:36:43 +0200 Subject: Prepare and LiveCode 5.5.5 Message-ID: Can anyone tell me if "prepare" is available with LC 5.5.5? How might i find that out? sims From gerry.orkin at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 02:48:34 2013 From: gerry.orkin at gmail.com (Gerry Orkin) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:48:34 +1000 Subject: Prepare image usage In-Reply-To: References: <90910A3E-7C78-4701-8821-D551734622D8@gmail.com> Message-ID: I might have missed something but why not download the images the first time the app ever loads (and store them locally)? As I understand it you'll need to do that for all the images only the first time it loads, and then from time to time just download updates? Once downloaded you could cache them ready for quick display. g On 05/08/2013, at 4:29 PM, Jim sims wrote: > My strategy of setting the filename of images to empty allows me to scroll > and resetting the filenames works but i want to speed this up so it > displays quicker. From sims at ezpzapps.com Mon Aug 5 03:26:40 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 09:26:40 +0200 Subject: Prepare image usage In-Reply-To: References: <90910A3E-7C78-4701-8821-D551734622D8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Gerry, Thank you for your patience on this. Am a bit new to iOS - an ios newbie with limited exposure to this. Been away from this tech world a while. So i can use: get URL tFile and then save to a folder inside the ipad app. Like the example in the dictionary for specialfolderpath("cache") Then refer to that path for setting the filename. That what you mean? TIA sims On Monday, August 5, 2013, Gerry Orkin wrote: > I might have missed something but why not download the images the first > time the app ever loads (and store them locally)? As I understand it you'll > need to do that for all the images only the first time it loads, and then > from time to time just download updates? Once downloaded you could cache > them ready for quick display. > > g > > > On 05/08/2013, at 4:29 PM, Jim sims > > wrote: > > > My strategy of setting the filename of images to empty allows me to > scroll > > and resetting the filenames works but i want to speed this up so it > > displays quicker. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From toolbook at kestner.de Mon Aug 5 03:55:07 2013 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 09:55:07 +0200 Subject: How to split an array to get a special column as index? Message-ID: <007501ce91b1$1acc2b30$50648190$@de> Hello, when having a simple table, I can split this table into an one dimensional array by using "return and the table separator", e.g. split myTable by return and ";" to get the first column of the table as the array index. Is there any trick to split the same table getting any other column as the array index? Or do I have to create a copy of the table first and rearrange the columns, so that always the wanted index is the first column? Thanks for any hints. Tiemo From gerry.orkin at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 05:18:43 2013 From: gerry.orkin at gmail.com (Gerry Orkin) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 19:18:43 +1000 Subject: Prepare image usage In-Reply-To: References: <90910A3E-7C78-4701-8821-D551734622D8@gmail.com> Message-ID: > So i can use: get URL tFile and then save to a folder inside the ipad app. Yep. I'd probably .zip a folder with the initial thumbnails that gets downloaded and expanded the first time your app runs. Expand them into a thumbnails folder that you create inside the Documents folder on the device. A few people have worked out how to do the download and unzipping already e.g. see http://ftp.runrev.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14106&p=69291. Once you have them on the device it's a simple matter to just assign them as image files to the images in your scroller. For subsequent downloads of new thumbnails just repeat the process, adding the new images to the same folder. You can track the .zip archives already downloaded in a preferences file on the device that you compare to a similar file on the server (there are other ways of doing that too). Make sense? Cheers Gerry > Like the example in the dictionary for specialfolderpath("cache") > > Then refer to that path for setting the filename. > > That what you mean? > From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 05:54:41 2013 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 03:54:41 -0600 Subject: How to split an array to get a special column as index? In-Reply-To: <007501ce91b1$1acc2b30$50648190$@de> References: <007501ce91b1$1acc2b30$50648190$@de> Message-ID: Someone will probably correct me, but I suspect a re-arrangement is the only way. And if you're doing that, you might as well just use a repeat for each line loop and manually build the array as you go. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Hello, > > when having a simple table, I can split this table into an one dimensional > array by using "return and the table separator", e.g. > > split myTable by return and ";" > > to get the first column of the table as the array index. > > Is there any trick to split the same table getting any other column as the > array index? Or do I have to create a copy of the table first and rearrange > the columns, so that always the wanted index is the first column? > > Thanks for any hints. > > Tiemo > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 5 12:53:47 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:53:47 -0500 Subject: Prepare and LiveCode 5.5.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FFD89B.2070504@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/5/13 1:36 AM, Jim sims wrote: > Can anyone tell me if "prepare" is available with LC 5.5.5? > > How might i find that out? The dictionary includes an "introduced" header that tells when the syntax was first added to the language. In "prepare image" it says it was introduced in 6.0.0, so it wouldn't be available in 5.5.5. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From sims at ezpzapps.com Mon Aug 5 13:04:27 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 19:04:27 +0200 Subject: Prepare and LiveCode 5.5.5 In-Reply-To: <51FFD89B.2070504@hyperactivesw.com> References: <51FFD89B.2070504@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Thanks J, Moved on in my personal ios learning curve. New strategy is downloading to Documents folder - seems like i have managed that. Next is setting filenames with files in that doc folder. Am praying it means getting the specialfolder for documents and splicing image names to the end to use in setting filenames of images. Feels like deal with a small black box in the dark trying to get the procedures nailed down. ;-) sims -- On Monday, August 5, 2013, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/5/13 1:36 AM, Jim sims wrote: > >> Can anyone tell me if "prepare" is available with LC 5.5.5? >> >> How might i find that out? >> > > The dictionary includes an "introduced" header that tells when the syntax > was first added to the language. In "prepare image" it says it was > introduced in 6.0.0, so it wouldn't be available in 5.5.5. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Mon Aug 5 16:17:12 2013 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (william humphrey) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:17:12 -0400 Subject: odd and even numbers Message-ID: How do you test a number to see if it is a whole odd or even number? From dunbarx at aol.com Mon Aug 5 16:20:01 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:20:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D060304C67D3A0-19B0-28DB8@webmail-d157.sysops.aol.com> Hi. Just ask yourself this" answer testNumber mod 2 If you get a "1", testnumber is odd, if a "0", even. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: william humphrey To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Mon, Aug 5, 2013 4:17 pm Subject: odd and even numbers How do you test a number to see if it is a whole odd or even number? _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 5 16:25:08 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:25:08 -0400 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Craig is such a party pooper. There have got to be ways that are more fun and demonstrate the breadth of the language to new users if x/2 contains "." then answer "odd" else answer "even" if x/2 = x div 2 then answer "even" else answer "odd" hmmmmm what else? On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 4:17 PM, william humphrey wrote: > How do you test a number to see if it is a whole odd or even number? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From pderocco at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 5 16:30:46 2013 From: pderocco at ix.netcom.com (Paul D. DeRocco) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 13:30:46 -0700 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <8D060304C67D3A0-19B0-28DB8@webmail-d157.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D060304C67D3A0-19B0-28DB8@webmail-d157.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9D9B9C9905C84947A707D9218833084C@PAULD> > From: dunbarx at aol.com > > Just ask yourself this" > > answer testNumber mod 2 > > If you get a "1", testnumber is odd, if a "0", even. Careful, x mod 2 will be -1 for a negative odd number. Better to test for zero (even) or nonzero (odd). By the way bitwise AND normally works for negative or positive numbers on a two's complement machine (which is probably every machine that LiveCode ever has or ever will run on. In C, one can test for an odd integer with x & 1. Yet bitAnd doesn't work on negative numbers. It is documented that way, but I think this is an unnecessary and unexpected limitation. -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 5 16:34:10 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:34:10 -0500 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52000C42.4030804@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/5/13 3:25 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Craig is such a party pooper. There have got to be ways that are more fun > and demonstrate the breadth of the language to new users > > if x/2 contains "." then answer "odd" else answer "even" > if x/2 = x div 2 then answer "even" else answer "odd" > > hmmmmm what else? if last char of x is among the items of "0,2,4,6,8" then answer "even" else answer "odd" But personally I always use "mod" even though I don't go to parties. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 16:44:40 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 23:44:40 +0300 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52000EB8.8060000@gmail.com> On 08/05/2013 11:17 PM, william humphrey wrote: > How do you test a number to see if it is a whole odd or even number? Probably try and divide it by 2 and see if there is a remainder. That's what Miss Neville taught me when I was 6. Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 5 16:54:16 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:54:16 -0400 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <52000EB8.8060000@gmail.com> References: <52000EB8.8060000@gmail.com> Message-ID: OOH, I like Jacque's answer - THERE's one that just smacks other languages in the jaw - the only thing I might do is get rid of the commas - can't you do if the last char of x is in "02468"? I like Paul's, too. That demonstrates a bit of power in the language. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 08/05/2013 11:17 PM, william humphrey wrote: > >> How do you test a number to see if it is a whole odd or even number? >> > > Probably try and divide it by 2 and see if there is a remainder. > > That's what Miss Neville taught me when I was 6. > > Richmond. > > > ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Mon Aug 5 17:31:50 2013 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (william humphrey) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 17:31:50 -0400 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: <52000EB8.8060000@gmail.com> Message-ID: if x/2 = x div 2 then answer "even" else answer "odd" This one is weird. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 5 17:34:32 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 17:34:32 -0400 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: <52000EB8.8060000@gmail.com> Message-ID: that's ok, it works. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:31 PM, william humphrey wrote: > if x/2 = x div 2 then answer "even" else answer "odd" > > This one is weird. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From kee at kagi.com Mon Aug 5 17:37:55 2013 From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 14:37:55 -0700 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <9D9B9C9905C84947A707D9218833084C@PAULD> References: <8D060304C67D3A0-19B0-28DB8@webmail-d157.sysops.aol.com> <9D9B9C9905C84947A707D9218833084C@PAULD> Message-ID: <0A7725E8-0561-4C07-91A5-0546ACEFEFB1@kagi.com> OK I'll toss in a combo. put ((last char of trunc(x)) mod 2) = 0 into isOdd allows for a floating value of "x" which it should never be given but would be nice if it could handle allows for a quick mod calculation of a single digit rather than whatever the entire value of "x" is (perhaps speeds up execution?) Kee Nethery On Aug 5, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Paul D. DeRocco wrote: >> From: dunbarx at aol.com >> >> Just ask yourself this" >> >> answer testNumber mod 2 >> >> If you get a "1", testnumber is odd, if a "0", even. > > Careful, x mod 2 will be -1 for a negative odd number. Better to test for > zero (even) or nonzero (odd). > > By the way bitwise AND normally works for negative or positive numbers on a > two's complement machine (which is probably every machine that LiveCode ever > has or ever will run on. In C, one can test for an odd integer with x & 1. > Yet bitAnd doesn't work on negative numbers. It is documented that way, but > I think this is an unnecessary and unexpected limitation. > > -- > > Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco > Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 17:42:20 2013 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 15:42:20 -0600 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <0A7725E8-0561-4C07-91A5-0546ACEFEFB1@kagi.com> References: <8D060304C67D3A0-19B0-28DB8@webmail-d157.sysops.aol.com> <9D9B9C9905C84947A707D9218833084C@PAULD> <0A7725E8-0561-4C07-91A5-0546ACEFEFB1@kagi.com> Message-ID: set the itemdelimiter to "." put (the number of items in (x/2) is 2) into isOdd On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM, kee nethery wrote: > OK I'll toss in a combo. > > put ((last char of trunc(x)) mod 2) = 0 into isOdd > > allows for a floating value of "x" which it should never be given but > would be nice if it could handle > allows for a quick mod calculation of a single digit rather than whatever > the entire value of "x" is (perhaps speeds up execution?) > > Kee Nethery > > > On Aug 5, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Paul D. DeRocco > wrote: > > >> From: dunbarx at aol.com > >> > >> Just ask yourself this" > >> > >> answer testNumber mod 2 > >> > >> If you get a "1", testnumber is odd, if a "0", even. > > > > Careful, x mod 2 will be -1 for a negative odd number. Better to test for > > zero (even) or nonzero (odd). > > > > By the way bitwise AND normally works for negative or positive numbers > on a > > two's complement machine (which is probably every machine that LiveCode > ever > > has or ever will run on. In C, one can test for an odd integer with x & > 1. > > Yet bitAnd doesn't work on negative numbers. It is documented that way, > but > > I think this is an unnecessary and unexpected limitation. > > > > -- > > > > Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco > > Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From alex at tweedly.net Mon Aug 5 18:39:49 2013 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 23:39:49 +0100 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> Can you please define the problem more precisely ? It seems to me there are 3 possible answers to come out from any solution (or maybe more) 1 --> odd 2 --> even 2.5 --> neither odd nor even (or, if you prefer, "not whole") AFAICS, all the proposed solutions so far have been incomplete, because they failed to produce "neither" (i.e. they tested for evenness, so if not even then you'd have to assume it was odd). Perhaps the question should be re-stated as How do you test a whole number to see if it is even or odd? in which case the earlier solutions would be good. -- Alex. On 05/08/2013 21:17, william humphrey wrote: > How do you test a number to see if it is a whole odd or even number? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pderocco at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 5 18:53:10 2013 From: pderocco at ix.netcom.com (Paul D. DeRocco) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 15:53:10 -0700 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> Message-ID: > From: Alex Tweedly > > Can you please define the problem more precisely ? > > It seems to me there are 3 possible answers to come out from any > solution (or maybe more) > > 1 --> odd > 2 --> even > 2.5 --> neither odd nor even (or, if you prefer, "not whole") > > AFAICS, all the proposed solutions so far have been > incomplete, because > they failed to produce "neither" (i.e. they tested for > evenness, so if > not even then you'd have to assume it was odd). I thought the original question stated the assumption that the number was whole. Normally, one tests to see if a number is an integer by comparing it to its integer part. In LC you just ask if it "is an integer". It's interesting how people approach things differently when they're using an interpreted scripting language. For instance, in C, one would never divide by two and then see if the remainder is nonzero, because a divide is a comparatively slow operation; one would use a bitwise AND, since that is typically a single-clock op. But in LC, that difference is swamped by the time spent processing the script. And in C, one would NEVER base the analysis on the printed representation, because that would involve generating the printed representation. I don't know how LC represents things, but I would think that it would represent values by the combination of a numeric representation and a string representation, either one of which (but not both) may be missing, deferring generation until it is needed. If that's the case, just asking for the last character of a number might very well cause the representation to be generated, which would be significantly costlier than doing arithmetic on it. -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com From alex at tweedly.net Mon Aug 5 19:15:37 2013 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 00:15:37 +0100 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> On 05/08/2013 23:53, Paul D. DeRocco wrote: >> . >> >> I thought the original question stated the assumption that the number was >> whole. Normally, one tests to see if a number is an integer by comparing it >> to its integer part. In LC you just ask if it "is an integer". No, it didn't. That was precisely my point. The original question said: > How do you test a number to see if it is a whole odd or even number? i.e. "test a number" (no explicit assumptions about that number included) to see whether or not it is a "whole odd or even" number. My question (and attempted re-stating of the original) was intended to make it clear whether "wholeness" is a valid assumption or is part of the investigation. btw - not trying to pick on Jacque, but even if you assume the value is an integer, then her solution will fail in some cases. Why? Because if you test "2." LC will tell you it is an integer - but although it should be "even", it does not finish with any of 02468 ?! function aa p return p && (p is an integer) end aa on mouseUp put aa(2.) exit mouseUp Of course, if it is part of the "investigation" then we can then talk about the exact definition of "whole number" - it's not as widely agreed or unambiguous as I thought it was. Your points about the interesting differences between this question in LC vs the same question in C are absolutely right and interesting.. -- Alex. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 5 21:05:28 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 18:05:28 -0700 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> Alex- The problem with things like mod and "/" is that they're expensive in terms of scaling: they're about 3.5 times slower than "last char". If you're just doing this once, it shouldn't matter much. But if you need to determine oddness in a loop you want to do as much processing outside the loop as possible. Here's the fastest I could come up with... constant kEven="02468" put 3.14169 into tValue -- do this outside the loop put trunc(tValue) into y put the milliseconds into x repeat 10000 times -- this line is slow -- put the last char of trunc(y) is in kEven into tIsEven -- much faster put the last char of y is in kEven into tIsEven end repeat put the milliseconds -x -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 5 21:38:09 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 21:38:09 -0400 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: It's fascinating that the chunk operator is faster than the integer modulo or even the FP division. The debate over computational efficiency and what you should and shouldn't do are interesting when you have BIG loops, but did anybody bother to figure out how many iterations it would take before you would even notice? You aren't using a tool like LC because you are worried about squeezing cycles. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Alex- > > The problem with things like mod and "/" is that they're expensive in > terms of scaling: they're about 3.5 times slower than "last char". If > you're just doing this once, it shouldn't matter much. But if you need > to determine oddness in a loop you want to do as much processing > outside the loop as possible. > > Here's the fastest I could come up with... > > constant kEven="02468" > put 3.14169 into tValue > -- do this outside the loop > put trunc(tValue) into y > put the milliseconds into x > repeat 10000 times > -- this line is slow > -- put the last char of trunc(y) is in kEven into tIsEven > -- much faster > put the last char of y is in kEven into tIsEven > end repeat > put the milliseconds -x > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From pderocco at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 5 22:57:48 2013 From: pderocco at ix.netcom.com (Paul D. DeRocco) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 19:57:48 -0700 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <3D590E6B36A5434DBDCB97ADB3E9AFF2@PAULD> > From: Mark Wieder > > The problem with things like mod and "/" is that they're expensive in > terms of scaling: they're about 3.5 times slower than "last char". Is that because values are always converted to binary and back to a string when doing arithmetic, or because the arithmetic itself is done in BCD? Does anyone know how the engine works? -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com From peterwawood at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 23:10:42 2013 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 11:10:42 +0800 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <3D590E6B36A5434DBDCB97ADB3E9AFF2@PAULD> References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> <3D590E6B36A5434DBDCB97ADB3E9AFF2@PAULD> Message-ID: Paul On 6 Aug 2013, at 10:57, Paul D. DeRocco wrote: > Is that because values are always converted to binary and back to a string > when doing arithmetic, or because the arithmetic itself is done in BCD? Does > anyone know how the engine works? Mark Waddingham kindly explains how the engine performs arithmetic in this QCC entry - http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9349 Regards Peter From capellan2000 at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 23:51:56 2013 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 20:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: PNG Image Optimization Message-ID: <1375761116812-4668374.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi all, Recently, I was testing the efficiency of different bitmap image optimization methods and found these webpages that optimize PNG files: http://www.8bitalpha.com/ http://tinypng.org/ http://compresspng.com/ 24 bit Transparent PNG files reduced to 8 bit look better and are much more smaller. Could you test if this is true in your own computer? How many of you optimize all images used in your own stacks and applications? You could use this image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Gluecksklee_(transparent_background).png Thanks in advance! Al P.D. These are similar webpages: http://jpeg-optimizer.com/ http://compressjpg.com/ http://media4x.com/jpeg-minimizer/ http://www.jpegreducer.com/ http://www.gifreducer.com/ http://tools.dynamicdrive.com/imageoptimizer/ http://webresizer.com/resizer/ https://kraken.io/web-interface -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/PNG-Image-Optimization-tp4668374.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From pderocco at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 6 00:25:32 2013 From: pderocco at ix.netcom.com (Paul D. DeRocco) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 21:25:32 -0700 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net><52003219.9040109@tweedly.net><3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net><3D590E6B36A5434DBDCB97ADB3E9AFF2@PAULD> Message-ID: <7E7A930322924C39825898BB9423B173@PAULD> > From: Peter W A Wood > > Mark Waddingham kindly explains how the engine performs > arithmetic in this QCC entry - > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9349 That page states that arithmetic is done on 64-bit floating-point values, which is what I always assumed, and suggests the possibility of going to decimal in the future. I posted this response: "Where decimal arithmetic still fails is when a quotient doesn't have a finite representation. 1/3*3 will always be .99999... to whatever precision the decimal arithmetic is done. "An alternative is to define an 'epsilon' global property, with a default value of something like 1e-15, which says how close numbers must be in order to be considered equal. Comparing a and b could be done by actually comparing (a-b) to (a+b)*epsilon. Allow the user to set epsilon to anything from zero to, say, 0.1." This works for any two positive numbers; negative numbers would work the same, but have their sense reversed. Numbers could be compared to zero, or to numbers of the opposite sign, by comparing their difference to epsilon. What that page doesn't make explicit is whether even intermediate values in calculations are converted to and from strings. Since many numeric values are never needed in their human-readable form (loop counters being the most obvious example), having a way to deal with binary numbers and decimal numbers interchangeably would be a HUGE win. My suggestion was to represent values as the combination of a number and a string, one of which may be missing and only generated whenever something asks for it. A missing number could be represented as a NaN, and a missing string by a null pointer. -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Tue Aug 6 00:32:23 2013 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 21:32:23 -0700 Subject: PNG Image Optimization In-Reply-To: <1375761116812-4668374.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1375761116812-4668374.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: If the PNGs are images with no text - usually hard to see the difference sometimes but text and fancy effects like drop shadows can require more bit depth. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:51 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Hi all, > > Recently, I was testing the efficiency of different > bitmap image optimization methods and found > these webpages that optimize PNG files: > > http://www.8bitalpha.com/ > http://tinypng.org/ > http://compresspng.com/ > > 24 bit Transparent PNG files reduced to 8 bit > look better and are much more smaller. > > Could you test if this is true in your own computer? > How many of you optimize all images used in your > own stacks and applications? > > You could use this image: > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Gluecksklee_(transparent_background).png > > Thanks in advance! > > Al > > P.D. > These are similar webpages: > http://jpeg-optimizer.com/ > http://compressjpg.com/ > http://media4x.com/jpeg-minimizer/ > http://www.jpegreducer.com/ > http://www.gifreducer.com/ > http://tools.dynamicdrive.com/imageoptimizer/ > http://webresizer.com/resizer/ > https://kraken.io/web-interface > > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/PNG-Image-Optimization-tp4668374.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 6 00:56:30 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 21:56:30 -0700 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <17297780590.20130805215630@ahsoftware.net> Mike- Monday, August 5, 2013, 6:38:09 PM, you wrote: > It's fascinating that the chunk operator is faster than the integer modulo > or even the FP division. The "last char" chunk can be determined quickly with a pointer. Math operators are turned over to the math library, which will necessarily be slower due to the overhead of the function calls. If the compiled code were optimized, a divide-by-two operation would end up being a bitwise right shift, which would be as fast as the chunk. > The debate over computational efficiency and what you should and shouldn't > do are interesting when you have BIG loops, but did anybody bother to > figure out how many iterations it would take before you would even notice? > You aren't using a tool like LC because you are worried about squeezing > cycles. No, but I sometimes need to optimize to squeeze cycles *because* I'm using a high-level tool like LC. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From bonnmike at gmail.com Tue Aug 6 01:03:15 2013 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 23:03:15 -0600 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <17297780590.20130805215630@ahsoftware.net> References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> <17297780590.20130805215630@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: I assume using baseconvert has the same slowdown issue? A function call from library, so not as fast? put the last char of baseconvert(x,10,2) is 1 into isOdd On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:56 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Mike- > > Monday, August 5, 2013, 6:38:09 PM, you wrote: > > > It's fascinating that the chunk operator is faster than the integer > modulo > > or even the FP division. > > The "last char" chunk can be determined quickly with a pointer. > Math operators are turned over to the math library, which will > necessarily be slower due to the overhead of the function calls. If > the compiled code were optimized, a divide-by-two operation would end > up being a bitwise right shift, which would be as fast as the chunk. > > > The debate over computational efficiency and what you should and > shouldn't > > do are interesting when you have BIG loops, but did anybody bother to > > figure out how many iterations it would take before you would even > notice? > > You aren't using a tool like LC because you are worried about squeezing > > cycles. > > No, but I sometimes need to optimize to squeeze cycles *because* I'm > using a high-level tool like LC. > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From capellan2000 at gmail.com Tue Aug 6 01:18:40 2013 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 22:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: PNG Image Optimization In-Reply-To: References: <1375761116812-4668374.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1375766320208-4668379.post@n4.nabble.com> Good points. Note taken, Thanks Al Stephen Barncard-4 wrote > If the PNGs are images with no text - usually hard to see the difference > sometimes but text and fancy effects like drop shadows can require more > bit > depth. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/PNG-Image-Optimization-tp4668374p4668379.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 6 01:45:46 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 22:45:46 -0700 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <12100736049.20130805224546@ahsoftware.net> Hmmm... for now, just ignore my benchmarks. I'm getting quite different results with LC 4.6.4 and LC 6.1rc1, and I think there's some garbage collection going on in the background. Plus I found half a dozen LC update processes running. I'm currently seeing fairly consistent results with all the different options, even with the mod and trunc functions thrown in the mix. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From sims at ezpzapps.com Tue Aug 6 01:55:52 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 07:55:52 +0200 Subject: spot my mistake? Message-ID: This fails to set the filename of an image area/object even though "the files" returns the image name I want to use. Can anyone spot my mistake? TIA sims --- *on* mouseUp *put* specialFolderPath("documents") into imageFolder *put* "http://ezpzapps.com/hagar/a1010_1.jpg" into tImageToGet *put* "binfile:" before tImageToGet *put* tImageToGet into fld "toget" *put* specialFolderPath("documents") into tDoc *put* "file:"&tDoc&"/"&"a1010_1.jpg" into tFileLoc *put* url tImageToGet into url tFileLoc *set* the defaultFolder to imageFolder *put* the Files into tFls *answer* "the files are"&cr& tFLs *-- THIS GIVES "a1010_1.jpg"* *put* imageFolder & "/" & "a1010_1.jpg" into tFLoad *set* the filename of image "testerz" to tFLoad *end* mouseUp From pderocco at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 6 01:59:27 2013 From: pderocco at ix.netcom.com (Paul D. DeRocco) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 22:59:27 -0700 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <12100736049.20130805224546@ahsoftware.net> References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net><3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> <12100736049.20130805224546@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <008FE16782194B7FAA3121519B72C7A3@PAULD> > From: Mark Wieder > > Hmmm... for now, just ignore my benchmarks. I'm getting quite > different results with LC 4.6.4 and LC 6.1rc1, and I think there's > some garbage collection going on in the background. Plus I found half > a dozen LC update processes running. > > I'm currently seeing fairly consistent results with all the different > options, even with the mod and trunc functions thrown in the mix. I hope the engine is smart enough that "repeat 10000 times" doesn't convert the count back and forth between a string and a number ten thousand times. -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Aug 6 02:10:30 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 16:10:30 +1000 Subject: spot my mistake? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 06/08/2013, at 3:55 PM, Jim sims wrote: > *on* mouseUp > > *put* specialFolderPath("documents") into imageFolder > > *put* "http://ezpzapps.com/hagar/a1010_1.jpg" into tImageToGet > > *put* "binfile:" before tImageToGet ^ here's one... getting binfile:http:? > > *put* tImageToGet into fld "toget" > > *put* specialFolderPath("documents") into tDoc > > *put* "file:"&tDoc&"/"&"a1010_1.jpg" into tFileLoc ^ here's another.. should be binfile: > > *put* url tImageToGet into url tFileLoc > > *set* the defaultFolder to imageFolder > > *put* the Files into tFls > > *answer* "the files are"&cr& tFLs *-- THIS GIVES "a1010_1.jpg"* I suspect it's 0 bytes. > > *put* imageFolder & "/" & "a1010_1.jpg" into tFLoad > > *set* the filename of image "testerz" to tFLoad > > *end* mouseUp Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From pderocco at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 6 02:03:14 2013 From: pderocco at ix.netcom.com (Paul D. DeRocco) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 23:03:14 -0700 Subject: Alternative cursor shapes Message-ID: <548D7F5EF5E74F4485B0482077148D72@PAULD> I created some alternative cursor shapes as .png files, with transparency, and added them to my main stack. They work fine on my Win7 machines, both in the LC environment or when exported as standalones. I tried them on an old WinXP laptop, and they instantly terminate the program. The LC environment terminates as soon as I load the .rev file. Has anyone had problems with embedding .png files? -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com From sims at ezpzapps.com Tue Aug 6 02:13:57 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 08:13:57 +0200 Subject: spot my mistake? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gawd. Back to school for me. Stupido. Idiota. Thanks a bunch Monte! Of course your changes work perfectly. sims On Tuesday, August 6, 2013, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 06/08/2013, at 3:55 PM, Jim sims wrote: > > > *on* mouseUp > > > > *put* specialFolderPath("documents") into imageFolder > > > > *put* "http://ezpzapps.com/hagar/a1010_1.jpg" into tImageToGet > > > > *put* "binfile:" before tImageToGet > ^ here's one... getting binfile:http:? > > > > *put* tImageToGet into fld "toget" > > > > *put* specialFolderPath("documents") into tDoc > > > > *put* "file:"&tDoc&"/"&"a1010_1.jpg" into tFileLoc > ^ here's another.. should be binfile: > > > > *put* url tImageToGet into url tFileLoc > > > > *set* the defaultFolder to imageFolder > > > > *put* the Files into tFls > > > > *answer* "the files are"&cr& tFLs *-- THIS GIVES "a1010_1.jpg"* > > I suspect it's 0 bytes. > > > > *put* imageFolder & "/" & "a1010_1.jpg" into tFLoad > > > > *set* the filename of image "testerz" to tFLoad > > > > *end* mouseUp > > Cheers > > -- > M E R Goulding > Software development services > Bespoke application development for vertical markets > > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 6 02:13:51 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 23:13:51 -0700 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <008FE16782194B7FAA3121519B72C7A3@PAULD> References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net><3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> <12100736049.20130805224546@ahsoftware.net> <008FE16782194B7FAA3121519B72C7A3@PAULD> Message-ID: <4102421089.20130805231351@ahsoftware.net> Paul- Monday, August 5, 2013, 10:59:27 PM, you wrote: > I hope the engine is smart enough that "repeat 10000 times" doesn't convert > the count back and forth between a string and a number ten thousand times. repeat with the number of bottles of beer on the wall take one down convert it to a number subtract 1 from it convert it to a string put it back on the wall end repeat -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From pderocco at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 6 02:25:25 2013 From: pderocco at ix.netcom.com (Paul D. DeRocco) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 23:25:25 -0700 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <4102421089.20130805231351@ahsoftware.net> References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net><52003219.9040109@tweedly.net><3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net><12100736049.20130805224546@ahsoftware.net><008FE16782194B7FAA3121519B72C7A3@PAULD> <4102421089.20130805231351@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <736FBBC8A0A34FF588DC485F7F3A2921@PAULD> > From: Mark Wieder > > Paul- > > Monday, August 5, 2013, 10:59:27 PM, you wrote: > > > I hope the engine is smart enough that "repeat 10000 times" > doesn't convert > > the count back and forth between a string and a number ten > thousand times. > > repeat with the number of bottles of beer on the wall > take one down > convert it to a number > subtract 1 from it > convert it to a string > put it back on the wall > end repeat Exactly! -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com From pderocco at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 6 03:32:00 2013 From: pderocco at ix.netcom.com (Paul D. DeRocco) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 00:32:00 -0700 Subject: Alternative cursor shapes In-Reply-To: <548D7F5EF5E74F4485B0482077148D72@PAULD> References: <548D7F5EF5E74F4485B0482077148D72@PAULD> Message-ID: <81256E6DD0C74CB9914B8D90D333DF48@PAULD> > From: Paul D. DeRocco > > I created some alternative cursor shapes as .png files, with > transparency, > and added them to my main stack. They work fine on my Win7 > machines, both in > the LC environment or when exported as standalones. I tried > them on an old > WinXP laptop, and they instantly terminate the program. The > LC environment > terminates as soon as I load the .rev file. Has anyone had > problems with embedding .png files? I found that my problem was caused by the fact that I had embedded these images as references to the files, and not copied the files. When I imported them so that the image data would be embedded in the stack, then they worked. However, when I create a new stack, and just give it an image object that refers to a file, and then delete the file, it doesn't crash. Since I can't reproduce this crash with a simple example, I can't report it as a bug. -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com From mazzapaoloitaly at gmail.com Tue Aug 6 04:48:47 2013 From: mazzapaoloitaly at gmail.com (paolo mazza) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 10:48:47 +0200 Subject: MobGui and Resolution Indipendence Message-ID: Hi all, consider to buid an iOS app for iPod-IPhone and iPad. Alternative layouts for different screen sizes are needed. (see http://www.iosres.com/) How to deal with all the different screeen resolution of these devices? Will MobGui plugin take care of this effectively? What is the the best practice in Livecode development? Best regards, Paolo Mazza From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Aug 6 05:24:07 2013 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 11:24:07 +0200 Subject: AW: How to split an array to get a special column as index? In-Reply-To: References: <007501ce91b1$1acc2b30$50648190$@de> Message-ID: <006801ce9286$b4368d30$1ca3a790$@de> Hello Mike, thanks for answering. Thats what I am doing and it's not a too big deal. I just wondered, if there is a more straight forward way, what most times is. But this time it seems, it is not. Thanks Tiemo > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag > von Mike Bonner > Gesendet: Montag, 5. August 2013 11:55 > An: How to use LiveCode > Betreff: Re: How to split an array to get a special column as index? > > Someone will probably correct me, but I suspect a re-arrangement is the > only way. And if you're doing that, you might as well just use a repeat for > each line loop and manually build the array as you go. > > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB > wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > when having a simple table, I can split this table into an one > > dimensional array by using "return and the table separator", e.g. > > > > split myTable by return and ";" > > > > to get the first column of the table as the array index. > > > > Is there any trick to split the same table getting any other column as > > the array index? Or do I have to create a copy of the table first and > > rearrange the columns, so that always the wanted index is the first > column? > > > > Thanks for any hints. > > > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From index at kenjikojima.com Tue Aug 6 08:41:26 2013 From: index at kenjikojima.com (index at kenjikojima.com) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 08:41:26 -0400 Subject: Japanese Font Menu 04 Message-ID: Hi, This is a Japanese font menu stack 04 for Mac OS and Windows. go to url "http://kenjikojima.com/livecode/download/jpFontMenu04.livecode" Added sub munes. -- Kenji Kojima / ???? http://www.kenjikojima.com/ From mkoob at rogers.com Tue Aug 6 09:45:08 2013 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 06:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Odin down again? Message-ID: <1375796708344-4668393.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Is anyone else seeing that Odin is down? I have already sent in an emergency support request thru the website. http://www.on-rev.com/support/contact-us/ I noticed it was down about 8:40 EST Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Odin-down-again-tp4668393.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 6 11:01:18 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 11:01:18 -0400 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: <736FBBC8A0A34FF588DC485F7F3A2921@PAULD> References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> <12100736049.20130805224546@ahsoftware.net> <008FE16782194B7FAA3121519B72C7A3@PAULD> <4102421089.20130805231351@ahsoftware.net> <736FBBC8A0A34FF588DC485F7F3A2921@PAULD> Message-ID: I think you forgot to pass it around. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Paul D. DeRocco wrote: > > From: Mark Wieder > > > > Paul- > > > > Monday, August 5, 2013, 10:59:27 PM, you wrote: > > > > > I hope the engine is smart enough that "repeat 10000 times" > > doesn't convert > > > the count back and forth between a string and a number ten > > thousand times. > > > > repeat with the number of bottles of beer on the wall > > take one down > > convert it to a number > > subtract 1 from it > > convert it to a string > > put it back on the wall > > end repeat > > Exactly! > > -- > > Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco > Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From andrew at ctech.me Tue Aug 6 11:39:26 2013 From: andrew at ctech.me (Andrew Kluthe) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 10:39:26 -0500 Subject: MobGui and Resolution Indipendence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I haven't messed with it at all, but I believe Monte's mApp framework is accomplishing this. Also, I believe we aren't far off from built in resolution independence from the livecode dev team. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:48 AM, paolo mazza wrote: > Hi all, > consider to buid an iOS app for iPod-IPhone and iPad. > Alternative layouts for different screen sizes are needed. (see > http://www.iosres.com/) > How to deal with all the different screeen resolution of these devices? > Will MobGui plugin take care of this effectively? > What is the the best practice in Livecode development? > Best regards, > Paolo Mazza > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Regards, Andrew Kluthe andrew at ctech.me From mcgrath3 at mac.com Tue Aug 6 11:54:16 2013 From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 11:54:16 -0400 Subject: textStyle with native iOS fields Message-ID: Has anyone been able to get textStyles to work with native iOS fields? Thanks Tom -- Tom McGrath III http://lazyriver.on-rev.com mcgrath3 at mac.com From andrew at ctech.me Tue Aug 6 11:56:49 2013 From: andrew at ctech.me (Andrew Kluthe) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 10:56:49 -0500 Subject: Option Menu Scroll Wheel Message-ID: Hey Y'all, I have had a request to make the option respond to the scroll wheel of a mouse on windows instead of having to manually scroll down. Does anyone know if this is possible? -- Regards, Andrew Kluthe andrew at ctech.me From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 6 12:04:18 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 12:04:18 -0400 Subject: textStyle with native iOS fields In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: you mean instead of using iphonecontrolset? I haven't had any issues with iphonecontrolset to change properties for native fields. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote: > Has anyone been able to get textStyles to work with native iOS fields? > > Thanks Tom > > -- Tom McGrath III > http://lazyriver.on-rev.com > mcgrath3 at mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mcgrath3 at mac.com Tue Aug 6 12:09:01 2013 From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 12:09:01 -0400 Subject: textStyle with native iOS fields In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CD35F2D-7E26-45EF-BBFC-52D2F5C6A413@mac.com> Mike, iPhoneControlSet does not have a textStyle property. I need Bold Italic Underline Mixed for NATIVE text fields in an iOS app. Tom -- Tom McGrath III http://lazyriver.on-rev.com mcgrath3 at mac.com On Aug 6, 2013, at 12:04 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > you mean instead of using iphonecontrolset? I haven't had any issues with > iphonecontrolset to change properties for native fields. > > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote: > >> Has anyone been able to get textStyles to work with native iOS fields? >> >> Thanks Tom >> From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 6 12:31:19 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 12:31:19 -0400 Subject: MobGui and Resolution Indipendence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Go LiveCode Team! I despise having to use separate platform-specific solutions. ~Roger On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Andrew Kluthe wrote: > I haven't messed with it at all, but I believe Monte's mApp framework is > accomplishing this. Also, I believe we aren't far off from built in > resolution independence from the livecode dev team. > -- > Regards, > > Andrew Kluthe > andrew at ctech.me > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 6 12:46:29 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 12:46:29 -0400 Subject: textStyle with native iOS fields In-Reply-To: <3CD35F2D-7E26-45EF-BBFC-52D2F5C6A413@mac.com> References: <3CD35F2D-7E26-45EF-BBFC-52D2F5C6A413@mac.com> Message-ID: HMM. I'm not aware of a way to do that. Sorry. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote: > Mike, iPhoneControlSet does not have a textStyle property. I need Bold > Italic Underline Mixed for NATIVE text fields in an iOS app. > > Tom > > -- Tom McGrath III > http://lazyriver.on-rev.com > mcgrath3 at mac.com > > On Aug 6, 2013, at 12:04 PM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > you mean instead of using iphonecontrolset? I haven't had any issues > with > > iphonecontrolset to change properties for native fields. > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Thomas McGrath III >wrote: > > > >> Has anyone been able to get textStyles to work with native iOS fields? > >> > >> Thanks Tom > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From heather at runrev.com Tue Aug 6 12:55:54 2013 From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Laine) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 17:55:54 +0100 Subject: revUp Newsletter- call for articles Message-ID: Dear List Folks, As you may or may not have noticed, normal service has now resumed with our interesting and informative twice monthly newsletter. I'm now looking for new content for immediate publication and to bank for future issues. If you have something you'd like to write about, some code tip to share with the community, an interesting app story, essentially anything with a LiveCode slant that other community members might like to read about, please contact me on editor at runrev.com. You can read previous issues here to get inspiration and some idea of what we're looking for: http://livecode.com/community/newsletters/ I'd love to hear from you! Warm Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager http://www.livecode.com/ From iowahengst at mac.com Tue Aug 6 14:07:39 2013 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:07:39 -0500 Subject: revUp Newsletter- call for articles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <227FC0A1-2470-4D90-86D1-4B84AE7FE62C@mac.com> Hi Heather, I'm a professor in the education department of a small, liberal arts college? we've been using LiveCode to develop apps for use in a Kindergarten Number Sense Project? we began several years ago and I wrote apps for desktop? we've moved now to iPads? the elementary education majors are required to buy an iPad? they also influence app design and modifications based on their work with kindergarten students? here are two web addresses if you'd like some more info. If you'd think it appropriate, the article link could be "reduced" in length with an emphasis on the two new apps that were developed this past school year. The website for the NumberSense Project outlines the details and is available at http://www.augustana.edu/numbersense A recent article I co-authored with Mike Egan about our work can be found here: http://www.citejournal.org/vol12/iss3/currentpractice/article1.cfm. be well, randy ----- On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Heather Laine wrote: > Dear List Folks, > > As you may or may not have noticed, normal service has now resumed with our interesting and informative twice monthly newsletter. I'm now looking for new content for immediate publication and to bank for future issues. If you have something you'd like to write about, some code tip to share with the community, an interesting app story, essentially anything with a LiveCode slant that other community members might like to read about, please contact me on editor at runrev.com. You can read previous issues here to get inspiration and some idea of what we're looking for: > > http://livecode.com/community/newsletters/ > > I'd love to hear from you! > > Warm Regards, > > Heather > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > http://www.livecode.com/ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Tue Aug 6 14:10:41 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 11:10:41 -0700 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> <12100736049.20130805224546@ahsoftware.net> <008FE16782194B7FAA3121519B72C7A3@PAULD> <4102421089.20130805231351@ahsoftware.net> <736FBBC8A0A34FF588DC485F7F3A2921@PAULD> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I think you forgot to pass it around. Maybe it was a good brand? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 6 14:35:23 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 14:35:23 -0400 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> <12100736049.20130805224546@ahsoftware.net> <008FE16782194B7FAA3121519B72C7A3@PAULD> <4102421089.20130805231351@ahsoftware.net> <736FBBC8A0A34FF588DC485F7F3A2921@PAULD> Message-ID: #winner On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > I think you forgot to pass it around. > > Maybe it was a good brand? > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mkoob at rogers.com Tue Aug 6 15:21:09 2013 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 12:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Odin down again? In-Reply-To: <1375796708344-4668393.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1375796708344-4668393.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1375816869682-4668406.post@n4.nabble.com> Just updating Odin was back up around 10:50 EST Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Odin-down-again-tp4668393p4668406.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Aug 6 16:28:32 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 06:28:32 +1000 Subject: textStyle with native iOS fields In-Reply-To: <3CD35F2D-7E26-45EF-BBFC-52D2F5C6A413@mac.com> References: <3CD35F2D-7E26-45EF-BBFC-52D2F5C6A413@mac.com> Message-ID: On 07/08/2013, at 2:09 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote: > Mike, iPhoneControlSet does not have a textStyle property. I need Bold Italic Underline Mixed for NATIVE text fields in an iOS app. Last I looked into this even Objective C developers hack webviews to do it. There are some open source styled text editors around I think so you could use an external... Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Aug 6 16:58:09 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 06:58:09 +1000 Subject: MobGui and Resolution Indipendence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E270428-6234-405D-8E14-3BCAD7997000@sweattechnologies.com> On 07/08/2013, at 2:31 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > Go LiveCode Team! I despise having to use separate platform-specific > solutions. Actually mApp is quite capable of being used as a desktop framework too. Right at the moment I'm in a quandary about extending it some more for desktop to give it the features I'll miss from GLX or splitting the project I'm considering this for. The thing that mApp doesn't do which the OP was about I think is pretty buttons etc. That's up to you. It won't become redundant when resolution independence is released BTW it will just change the scaling code to whatever minor things need to be done for the resolution independence stuff to work. Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From jhurley0305 at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 6 18:55:30 2013 From: jhurley0305 at sbcglobal.net (Jim Hurley) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 15:55:30 -0700 Subject: With Apple script no longer supported, how do I.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <626C9B61-F63A-45FF-8676-5FBC2B729C84@sbcglobal.net> Election season is fact approaching in my county. I do a lot of election DB work. One thing I have long relied on was the ability to extract data stored Filemaker and put it into a LC stack, (where the scripting language is not idiotic.) I have done this with something like this (below) executed as Apple Script: set theDatabase to choose file with prompt "Please locate a FileMaker Pro database file to open:" tell application "FileMaker Pro" with transaction try open theDatabase go to layout "list" get every record of layout "list" end try end transaction end tell It was slow but it worked. With Apple script gone, will there remain a way to script in LC a way to extract info from FM? Please tell me this is a naive question, and the answer is easy. Jim Hurley From revolution at derbrill.de Tue Aug 6 19:05:16 2013 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 01:05:16 +0200 Subject: unable to start simulation on iOS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wanted to work I created a while back. It fails to open in the simulator with the following error: unable to start Simulation: Could not install the app (in german, so the english wording might be a little different). A vanilla new stack launches just fine in the Simulator. I already deleted the standalone settings custom property, but to no avail. Anybody got an idea what is happening here? From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Aug 6 19:17:45 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 09:17:45 +1000 Subject: unable to start simulation on iOS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 07/08/2013, at 9:05 AM, Malte Brill wrote: > I wanted to work I created a while back. It fails to open in the simulator with the following error: > > unable to start Simulation: Could not install the app (in german, so the english wording might be a little different). A vanilla new stack launches just fine in the Simulator. I already deleted the standalone settings custom property, but to no avail. Anybody got an idea what is happening here? Try changing the app identifier. The simulator doesn't like different apps that have the same identifier. Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From revlist at azurevision.co.uk Tue Aug 6 19:12:01 2013 From: revlist at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 00:12:01 +0100 Subject: With Apple script no longer supported, how do I.... In-Reply-To: <626C9B61-F63A-45FF-8676-5FBC2B729C84@sbcglobal.net> References: <626C9B61-F63A-45FF-8676-5FBC2B729C84@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: I'm probably misunderstanding something here, but as long as you're not selling your app via the Mac App Store I though sandboxing isn't going to affect your app's ability to run AppleScript? Ian On 6 Aug 2013, at 23:55, Jim Hurley wrote: > Election season is fact approaching in my county. I do a lot of election DB work. > > One thing I have long relied on was the ability to extract data stored Filemaker and put it into a LC stack, (where the scripting language is not idiotic.) > > I have done this with something like this (below) executed as Apple Script: > > set theDatabase to choose file with prompt "Please locate a FileMaker Pro database file to open:" > tell application "FileMaker Pro" > with transaction > try > open theDatabase > go to layout "list" > get every record of layout "list" > end try > end transaction > end tell > > It was slow but it worked. > > With Apple script gone, will there remain a way to script in LC a way to extract info from FM? > > Please tell me this is a naive question, and the answer is easy. > > Jim Hurley > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 01:20:59 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 00:20:59 -0500 Subject: With Apple script no longer supported, how do I.... In-Reply-To: <626C9B61-F63A-45FF-8676-5FBC2B729C84@sbcglobal.net> References: <626C9B61-F63A-45FF-8676-5FBC2B729C84@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Would it work to export from within FileMaker, and then import that file into LC? That would mean writing a (very simple) script in FileMaker, or just manually exporting using the specified layout as a template, and then writing a simple importer in LC. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Jim Hurley wrote: > Election season is fact approaching in my county. I do a lot of election > DB work. > > One thing I have long relied on was the ability to extract data stored > Filemaker and put it into a LC stack, (where the scripting language is not > idiotic.) > > I have done this with something like this (below) executed as Apple > Script: > > set theDatabase to choose file with prompt "Please locate a FileMaker Pro > database file to open:" > tell application "FileMaker Pro" > with transaction > try > open theDatabase > go to layout "list" > get every record of layout "list" > end try > end transaction > end tell > > It was slow but it worked. > > With Apple script gone, will there remain a way to script in LC a way to > extract info from FM? > > Please tell me this is a naive question, and the answer is easy. > > Jim Hurley > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From neil at runrev.com Wed Aug 7 03:34:04 2013 From: neil at runrev.com (Neil Roger) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 08:34:04 +0100 Subject: unable to start simulation on iOS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5201F86C.20908@runrev.com> Dear Malte, You could also try resetting the iOS simulator to its default state via the "reset content an Settings" option from the iOS Simulators application bar. iOS simulator---->Reset Content and Settings Please note that this will clear currently installed iOS applications from the simulator. Kind Regards, Neil Roger, -- RunRev Support Team ~ http://www.runrev.com -- On 07/08/2013 00:05, Malte Brill wrote: > I wanted to work I created a while back. It fails to open in the simulator with the following error: > > unable to start Simulation: Could not install the app (in german, so the english wording might be a little different). A vanilla new stack launches just fine in the Simulator. I already deleted the standalone settings custom property, but to no avail. Anybody got an idea what is happening here? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revolution at derbrill.de Wed Aug 7 04:01:31 2013 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:01:31 +0200 Subject: unable to start simulation on iOS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70F55AB2-2CF2-4964-95C2-ACFBE9EAB598@derbrill.de> Thanks Monte and Neil, changing the identifizier fixed this. Can't see the tree from the forrest sometimes. :-) Best, Malte From mazzapaoloitaly at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 04:05:38 2013 From: mazzapaoloitaly at gmail.com (paolo mazza) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:05:38 +0200 Subject: MobGui and Resolution Indipendence In-Reply-To: <9E270428-6234-405D-8E14-3BCAD7997000@sweattechnologies.com> References: <9E270428-6234-405D-8E14-3BCAD7997000@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Thank you all for your messages. I had a look at the mApp framework. I do not understand exactly how it works and AFAIK there is not any documentation about this software yet (I can listen to Monte's presentation at the last RunRev meeting though).Then I wonder how to deal with the MIT licence if I have to deploy a commercial app. I am aware that in the future a new version of LiveCode will integrate the "resolution independence" feature. But, how long I have to wait for? Then, to sumarize, at the present time, what is the best practice to create a little commercial app for the iOS devices ? - build an app with several different layouts taylored according the " iphoneUseDeviceResolution" - installing MobGui plugin and let this software to manage the resolution issues - using mApp framework - wait for the "resolution independence" be integrated in LiveCode I need your advice to start a new project on the right track!!! Best regards, Paolo Mazza On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 07/08/2013, at 2:31 AM, Roger Eller > wrote: > > > Go LiveCode Team! I despise having to use separate platform-specific > > solutions. > > Actually mApp is quite capable of being used as a desktop framework too. > Right at the moment I'm in a quandary about extending it some more for > desktop to give it the features I'll miss from GLX or splitting the project > I'm considering this for. The thing that mApp doesn't do which the OP was > about I think is pretty buttons etc. That's up to you. It won't become > redundant when resolution independence is released BTW it will just change > the scaling code to whatever minor things need to be done for the > resolution independence stuff to work. > > Cheers > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Wed Aug 7 04:48:36 2013 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 09:48:36 +0100 Subject: linking for armv7 failed... Message-ID: I am in the middle of trying to upload an ipad app to itunes... To cover what I have showing in the livecode prefrences under 'mobile support' I have xcode 4.4.1, 4.52, 4.6, 4.6.2, 4.6.3 Available SDK's 5.1, 6.0, 6.1 Available simulators 5.1, 6.0, 6.1 I have my app identifier, development provisioning profile, distribution profile I can build and run in the simulator... I can build a standalone and run it on an iPad... but I can only build the standalone with the 'build for' setting set to arm6... universal or arm7 doesn't seem to want to know. I tried using the 'application loader' to load the 'distribution build' set to arm6, but it quiclky tells me that the armv7 component is missing... When I try to build for armv7 the error message displayed, reads :- There was an error while saving the standalone application linking for armv7 failed with arm-apple-darwin10-llvm-g++-4.2: /private/var/folders/z9/zhgc043x3cxbg5955vch0mbw0000gn/T/TemporaryItems/tmp.554.AdxUp0vO: No such file or directory Anyone know where I am going wrong ? Dixie From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 7 05:27:18 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:27:18 +0100 (BST) Subject: MobGui and Resolution Indipendence In-Reply-To: References: <9E270428-6234-405D-8E14-3BCAD7997000@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <1375867638.53764.YahooMailNeo@web28801.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> >>?Then?I wonder how to deal with the MIT licence if I have to deploy a commercial?app. The MIT license tells you - you have to provide a copy of the copyright notice and permission statement (essentially a copy of the license file) with all copies of the software, although I'm sure Monte isn't planning to sue anyone who doesn't. There is nothing that says you have to make a copy of the license highly visible or easy to access, so you could just add it to the app bundle as an external file. However, generally accepted practice is to either include the license in an about box in your app if you have one, or add it to the end of your EULA on the App Store if you don't. >>?Then, to sumarize, at the present time, what is the best practice? to?create a little commercial? app for the iOS devices ? There isn't really an ideal solution at the moment, so it depends on your current and expected future requirements. How long is the app likely to be maintained? Might you ever want to build it for Android? >> - build an app with several different layouts taylored according the "iphoneUseDeviceResolution" This works for iOS only but as an approach doesn't scale to Android where there are so many more resolutions to deal with. ?The native iOS development community have been strongly encouraged towards auto-layout recently which suggests there may be some additional resolutions on the way for iOS too. >> -?installingMobGui plugin and let this software to manage the resolution?issues I believe the future of this plugin will remain uncertain until RunRev have released (or at least revealed much more detail on) their resolution independence and native platform themes functionality. ?It would work for now but you *might* need to switch away from it in the future. >> - using mApp framework This appears to be a viable long term solution across all platforms but as you say it doesn't really have any documentation yet, so there will be a greater learning curve. >> - wait for the "resolution independence" be integrated in LiveCode If you have no time pressure then this is the easiest option but I wouldn't count on having something complete and stable in the next few months. ?It's also not yet clear that this will be sufficient for most apps or if you'll still need something like mApp to manage layouts dynamically - from what I've read about the feature so far it looks like the latter may be the case. Hope that helps, Mark From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 7 05:32:14 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:32:14 +0100 (BST) Subject: linking for armv7 failed... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1375867934.5214.YahooMailNeo@web28804.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Are you using any externals that might not have been built for armv7? ________________________________ From: John Dixon To: "use-livecode at lists.runrev.com" Sent: Wednesday, 7 August 2013, 9:48 Subject: linking for armv7 failed... I am in the middle of trying to upload an ipad app to itunes... To cover what I have showing in the livecode prefrences under 'mobile support' I have xcode 4.4.1, 4.52, 4.6, 4.6.2, 4.6.3 Available SDK's 5.1, 6.0, 6.1 Available simulators 5.1, 6.0, 6.1 I have my app identifier, development provisioning profile, distribution profile I can build and run in the simulator... I can build a standalone and run it on an iPad... but I can only build the standalone with the 'build for' setting set to arm6... universal or arm7 doesn't seem to want to know. I tried using the 'application loader' to load the 'distribution build' set to arm6, but it quiclky tells me that the armv7 component is missing... When I try to build for armv7 the error message displayed, reads :- There was an error while saving the standalone application linking for armv7 failed with arm-apple-darwin10-llvm-g++-4.2: /private/var/folders/z9/zhgc043x3cxbg5955vch0mbw0000gn/T/TemporaryItems/tmp.554.AdxUp0vO: No such file or directory Anyone know where I am going wrong ? Dixie ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ? _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mazzapaoloitaly at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 06:04:27 2013 From: mazzapaoloitaly at gmail.com (paolo mazza) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 12:04:27 +0200 Subject: MobGui and Resolution Indipendence In-Reply-To: <1375867638.53764.YahooMailNeo@web28801.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <9E270428-6234-405D-8E14-3BCAD7997000@sweattechnologies.com> <1375867638.53764.YahooMailNeo@web28801.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mark, thank you very much for your message and for your deep analysis. It was really helpfull. I agree with you that at the moment the best solution to deploy a mobile app seems to be to integrate LiveCode with the mApp framework provided by Monte. Then, Monte's video about mApp at the RunrevLIve 2013 ( available at http://www.runrevlive.com/rrl13/simulcast13/ ) is quite useful to lear how to use it. So, let's start studing it!! Thank's a lot for all the precious pieces of information. All the best, Paolo On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Mark Wilcox wrote: >>> Then I wonder how to deal with the MIT licence if I have to deploy a commercial app. > > The MIT license tells you - you have to provide a copy of the copyright notice and permission statement (essentially a copy of the license file) with all copies of the software, although I'm sure Monte isn't planning to sue anyone who doesn't. > > There is nothing that says you have to make a copy of the license highly visible or easy to access, so you could just add it to the app bundle as an external file. However, generally accepted practice is to either include the license in an about box in your app if you have one, or add it to the end of your EULA on the App Store if you don't. > >>> Then, to sumarize, at the present time, what is the best practice to create a little commercial app for the iOS devices ? > > There isn't really an ideal solution at the moment, so it depends on your current and expected future requirements. How long is the app likely to be maintained? Might you ever want to build it for Android? > >>> - build an app with several different layouts taylored according the "iphoneUseDeviceResolution" > > This works for iOS only but as an approach doesn't scale to Android where there are so many more resolutions to deal with. The native iOS development community have been strongly encouraged towards auto-layout recently which suggests there may be some additional resolutions on the way for iOS too. > > >>> - installingMobGui plugin and let this software to manage the resolution issues > > I believe the future of this plugin will remain uncertain until RunRev have released (or at least revealed much more detail on) their resolution independence and native platform themes functionality. It would work for now but you *might* need to switch away from it in the future. > >>> - using mApp framework > > This appears to be a viable long term solution across all platforms but as you say it doesn't really have any documentation yet, so there will be a greater learning curve. > >>> - wait for the "resolution independence" be integrated in LiveCode > > > If you have no time pressure then this is the easiest option but I wouldn't count on having something complete and stable in the next few months. It's also not yet clear that this will be sufficient for most apps or if you'll still need something like mApp to manage layouts dynamically - from what I've read about the feature so far it looks like the latter may be the case. > > Hope that helps, > Mark > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Wed Aug 7 06:15:58 2013 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 11:15:58 +0100 Subject: linking for armv7 failed... In-Reply-To: <1375867934.5214.YahooMailNeo@web28804.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: , <1375867934.5214.YahooMailNeo@web28804.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorted...:-) Thanks Mark > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:32:14 +0100 > From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk > Subject: Re: linking for armv7 failed... > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Are you using any externals that might not have been built for armv7? > > > ________________________________ > From: John Dixon > To: "use-livecode at lists.runrev.com" > Sent: Wednesday, 7 August 2013, 9:48 > Subject: linking for armv7 failed... > > > I am in the middle of trying to upload an ipad app to itunes... > > To cover what I have showing in the livecode prefrences under 'mobile support' > I have xcode 4.4.1, 4.52, 4.6, 4.6.2, 4.6.3 > Available SDK's 5.1, 6.0, 6.1 > Available simulators 5.1, 6.0, 6.1 > > I have my app identifier, development provisioning profile, distribution profile > > I can build and run in the simulator... I can build a standalone and run it on an iPad... but I can only build the standalone with the 'build for' setting set to arm6... universal or arm7 doesn't seem to want to know. > > I tried using the 'application loader' to load the 'distribution build' set to arm6, but it quiclky tells me that the armv7 component is missing... > > When I try to build for armv7 the error message displayed, reads :- > There was an error while saving the standalone application > linking for armv7 failed with arm-apple-darwin10-llvm-g++-4.2: > /private/var/folders/z9/zhgc043x3cxbg5955vch0mbw0000gn/T/TemporaryItems/tmp.554.AdxUp0vO: > No such file or directory > > Anyone know where I am going wrong ? > > Dixie > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 10:49:10 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 07:49:10 -0700 Subject: An SQL query to return an UPDATE for the results? Message-ID: With an SQLite database in memory, and a "real" database either on machine or remote, I need to sync the two. I'm trying to find a clever & fast way to create a SELECT query that produces the corresponding UPDATE query. I can do something like "SELECT " & 'UPDATE sometable SET col1=''" & col1 & "'' WHERE key=''" & keyval & "'';" WHERE key =' & keyval & "';" to return UPDATE sometable SET col1='thevalue' WHERE key='keyval'; but this doesn't accommodate NULL values, which would come back as empty but need to become NULL rather than '' I suppose I could do a replace "''" with "NULL" in myQuery --for null strings replace ",," with ",NULL," in myQuery --for null numbers (and,f or that matter, null strings don't matter much. Am I on to something, or am I missing something big here? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jhurley0305 at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 7 11:26:46 2013 From: jhurley0305 at sbcglobal.net (Jim Hurley) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 08:26:46 -0700 Subject: With Apple script no longer supported, how do I.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Message: 22 > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 00:20:59 -0500 > From: Geoff Canyon > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: With Apple script no longer supported, how do I.... > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Would it work to export from within FileMaker, and then import that file > into LC? That would mean writing a (very simple) script in FileMaker, or > just manually exporting using the specified layout as a template, and then > writing a simple importer in LC. Yes Geoff, that is what I did for some time before I became away of the Apple Script solution. You, of all people, understand the value of the nice, neat solution. It was so easy to put the relevant data into a FM layout, move over to LC, and then just click a button and the data appeared just where I wanted it, and formatted for maximum massaging in LC. No file create and export. No resulting file I need to remember to trash. Sooo nice and neat. I will miss it. Here is my dream, my dream DB management application: FM but with LC as the scripting language. Seems to me like a killer application. FM, in attempting to make it easy (?) for the novice, made it traumatic for experienced programers. Jim > > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Jim Hurley wrote: > >> Election season is fact approaching in my county. I do a lot of election >> DB work. >> >> One thing I have long relied on was the ability to extract data stored >> Filemaker and put it into a LC stack, (where the scripting language is not >> idiotic.) >> >> I have done this with something like this (below) executed as Apple >> Script: >> >> set theDatabase to choose file with prompt "Please locate a FileMaker Pro >> database file to open:" >> tell application "FileMaker Pro" >> with transaction >> try >> open theDatabase >> go to layout "list" >> get every record of layout "list" >> end try >> end transaction >> end tell >> >> It was slow but it worked. >> >> With Apple script gone, will there remain a way to script in LC a way to >> extract info from FM? >> >> Please tell me this is a naive question, and the answer is easy. >> >> Jim Hurley >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 08:34:04 +0100 > From: Neil Roger > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: unable to start simulation on iOS > Message-ID: <5201F86C.20908 at runrev.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Dear Malte, > > You could also try resetting the iOS simulator to its default state via > the "reset content an Settings" option from the iOS Simulators > application bar. > > iOS simulator---->Reset Content and Settings > > Please note that this will clear currently installed iOS applications > from the simulator. > > Kind Regards, > > Neil Roger, > -- > RunRev Support Team ~ http://www.runrev.com > -- > > > On 07/08/2013 00:05, Malte Brill wrote: >> I wanted to work I created a while back. It fails to open in the simulator with the following error: >> >> unable to start Simulation: Could not install the app (in german, so the english wording might be a little different). A vanilla new stack launches just fine in the Simulator. I already deleted the standalone settings custom property, but to no avail. Anybody got an idea what is happening here? >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:01:31 +0200 > From: Malte Brill > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: unable to start simulation on iOS > Message-ID: <70F55AB2-2CF2-4964-95C2-ACFBE9EAB598 at derbrill.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Thanks Monte and Neil, > > changing the identifizier fixed this. Can't see the tree from the forrest sometimes. > > :-) > > > Best, > > Malte > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:05:38 +0200 > From: paolo mazza > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: MobGui and Resolution Indipendence > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Thank you all for your messages. > > I had a look at the mApp framework. I do not understand exactly how it > works and AFAIK there is not any documentation about this software yet (I > can listen to Monte's presentation at the last RunRev meeting though).Then > I wonder how to deal with the MIT licence if I have to deploy a commercial > app. > > I am aware that in the future a new version of LiveCode will integrate the > "resolution independence" feature. But, how long I have to wait for? > > Then, to sumarize, at the present time, what is the best practice to > create a little commercial app for the iOS devices ? > > - build an app with several different layouts taylored according the " > iphoneUseDeviceResolution" > - installing MobGui plugin and let this software to manage the resolution > issues > - using mApp framework > - wait for the "resolution independence" be integrated in LiveCode > > I need your advice to start a new project on the right track!!! > > Best regards, > > Paolo Mazza > > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Monte Goulding > wrote: > >> >> On 07/08/2013, at 2:31 AM, Roger Eller >> wrote: >> >>> Go LiveCode Team! I despise having to use separate platform-specific >>> solutions. >> >> Actually mApp is quite capable of being used as a desktop framework too. >> Right at the moment I'm in a quandary about extending it some more for >> desktop to give it the features I'll miss from GLX or splitting the project >> I'm considering this for. The thing that mApp doesn't do which the OP was >> about I think is pretty buttons etc. That's up to you. It won't become >> redundant when resolution independence is released BTW it will just change >> the scaling code to whatever minor things need to be done for the >> resolution independence stuff to work. >> >> Cheers >> >> -- >> Monte Goulding >> >> M E R Goulding - software development services >> mergExt - There's an external for that! >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 09:48:36 +0100 > From: John Dixon > To: "use-livecode at lists.runrev.com" > Subject: linking for armv7 failed... > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I am in the middle of trying to upload an ipad app to itunes... > > To cover what I have showing in the livecode prefrences under 'mobile support' > I have xcode 4.4.1, 4.52, 4.6, 4.6.2, 4.6.3 > Available SDK's 5.1, 6.0, 6.1 > Available simulators 5.1, 6.0, 6.1 > > I have my app identifier, development provisioning profile, distribution profile > > I can build and run in the simulator... I can build a standalone and run it on an iPad... but I can only build the standalone with the 'build for' setting set to arm6... universal or arm7 doesn't seem to want to know. > > I tried using the 'application loader' to load the 'distribution build' set to arm6, but it quiclky tells me that the armv7 component is missing... > > When I try to build for armv7 the error message displayed, reads :- > There was an error while saving the standalone application > linking for armv7 failed with arm-apple-darwin10-llvm-g++-4.2: > /private/var/folders/z9/zhgc043x3cxbg5955vch0mbw0000gn/T/TemporaryItems/tmp.554.AdxUp0vO: > No such file or directory > > Anyone know where I am going wrong ? > > Dixie > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:27:18 +0100 (BST) > From: Mark Wilcox > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: MobGui and Resolution Indipendence > Message-ID: > <1375867638.53764.YahooMailNeo at web28801.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >>> ?Then?I wonder how to deal with the MIT licence if I have to deploy a commercial?app. > > The MIT license tells you - you have to provide a copy of the copyright notice and permission statement (essentially a copy of the license file) with all copies of the software, although I'm sure Monte isn't planning to sue anyone who doesn't. > > There is nothing that says you have to make a copy of the license highly visible or easy to access, so you could just add it to the app bundle as an external file. However, generally accepted practice is to either include the license in an about box in your app if you have one, or add it to the end of your EULA on the App Store if you don't. > >>> ?Then, to sumarize, at the present time, what is the best practice? to?create a little commercial? app for the iOS devices ? > > There isn't really an ideal solution at the moment, so it depends on your current and expected future requirements. How long is the app likely to be maintained? Might you ever want to build it for Android? > >>> - build an app with several different layouts taylored according the "iphoneUseDeviceResolution" > > This works for iOS only but as an approach doesn't scale to Android where there are so many more resolutions to deal with. ?The native iOS development community have been strongly encouraged towards auto-layout recently which suggests there may be some additional resolutions on the way for iOS too. > > >>> -?installingMobGui plugin and let this software to manage the resolution?issues > > I believe the future of this plugin will remain uncertain until RunRev have released (or at least revealed much more detail on) their resolution independence and native platform themes functionality. ?It would work for now but you *might* need to switch away from it in the future. > >>> - using mApp framework > > This appears to be a viable long term solution across all platforms but as you say it doesn't really have any documentation yet, so there will be a greater learning curve. > >>> - wait for the "resolution independence" be integrated in LiveCode > > > If you have no time pressure then this is the easiest option but I wouldn't count on having something complete and stable in the next few months. ?It's also not yet clear that this will be sufficient for most apps or if you'll still need something like mApp to manage layouts dynamically - from what I've read about the feature so far it looks like the latter may be the case. > > Hope that helps, > Mark > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:32:14 +0100 (BST) > From: Mark Wilcox > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: linking for armv7 failed... > Message-ID: <1375867934.5214.YahooMailNeo at web28804.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Are you using any externals that might not have been built for armv7? > > > ________________________________ > From: John Dixon > To: "use-livecode at lists.runrev.com" > Sent: Wednesday, 7 August 2013, 9:48 > Subject: linking for armv7 failed... > > > I am in the middle of trying to upload an ipad app to itunes... > > To cover what I have showing in the livecode prefrences under 'mobile support' > I have xcode 4.4.1, 4.52, 4.6, 4.6.2, 4.6.3 > Available SDK's 5.1, 6.0, 6.1 > Available simulators 5.1, 6.0, 6.1 > > I have my app identifier, development provisioning profile, distribution profile > > I can build and run in the simulator... I can build a standalone and run it on an iPad... but I can only build the standalone with the 'build for' setting set to arm6... universal or arm7 doesn't seem to want to know. > > I tried using the 'application loader' to load the 'distribution build' set to arm6, but it quiclky tells me that the armv7 component is missing... > > When I try to build for armv7 the error message displayed, reads :- > There was an error while saving the standalone application > linking for armv7 failed with arm-apple-darwin10-llvm-g++-4.2: > /private/var/folders/z9/zhgc043x3cxbg5955vch0mbw0000gn/T/TemporaryItems/tmp.554.AdxUp0vO: > No such file or directory > > Anyone know where I am going wrong ? > > Dixie > > ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > ------------------------------ > > End of use-livecode Digest, Vol 119, Issue 12 > ********************************************* From pete at lcsql.com Wed Aug 7 13:21:21 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:21:21 -0700 Subject: An SQL query to return an UPDATE for the results? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don't know how many rows are involved but it would be much faster to select all the rows from the memory db table with one SELECT, then build the UPDATE statements using an LC script. An wrap the whole thing in BEGIN/END. As for the NULL issue, you could do two selects, one for rows where the column IS NULL and one for rows where the column is NOT NULL, and format the UPDATE statements accordingly. If you're sending the UPDATE statements over a network, you should use the LC feature of supplying the values in a list of variables/an array to avoid SQL injection issues. Also, is it possible that there won't be a matching row in the disk/netwrk database? If so, do the UPDATE and check if the return value is not zero; if it is zero, it means no rows were updated and you need to do an INSERT instead. Not even gonna get into the issue os what happens if two users try to update from memory at the same time, or perhaps that's not possible in your application. Pete lcSQL Software On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > With an SQLite database in memory, and a "real" database either on > machine or remote, I need to sync the two. > > I'm trying to find a clever & fast way to create a SELECT query that > produces the corresponding UPDATE query. > > I can do something like "SELECT " & 'UPDATE sometable SET col1=''" & > col1 & "'' WHERE key=''" & keyval & "'';" WHERE key =' & keyval & "';" > > to return > UPDATE sometable SET col1='thevalue' WHERE key='keyval'; > > but this doesn't accommodate NULL values, which would come back as > empty but need to become NULL rather than '' > > I suppose I could do a > replace "''" with "NULL" in myQuery --for null strings > replace ",," with ",NULL," in myQuery --for null numbers > > (and,f or that matter, null strings don't matter much. > > Am I on to something, or am I missing something big here? > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From hatchfactory at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 13:45:50 2013 From: hatchfactory at gmail.com (Michael Hatch) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:45:50 -0700 Subject: PNG Image Optimization In-Reply-To: <1375766320208-4668379.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1375761116812-4668374.post@n4.nabble.com> <1375766320208-4668379.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: I convert "most" of the images in my stacks that need the full range of transparency via tinypng.org. I have a utility on my PC that does the same thing but tinypng has been far more convenient. The downsides are the resulting files aren't compatible with early web browsers, my version of Photoshop (CS5), or gimp - so keep the original. My image intensive apps on both iOS and Android display the optimized pngs well at a mere fraction of the size. I created a bunch of tile-sets recently for an online strategy game one of the larger tile-sets un-optimized 439k https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/58521836/wall%20tile%20pack.png optimized retaining full transparency 136k https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/58521836/wall%20tile%20pack_reduced.png They liked the optimization enough they had me pipe the rest of their existing art through tinypng greatly reducing the bandwidth used and speeding up the game. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Good points. > Note taken, > > Thanks > > Al > > > Stephen Barncard-4 wrote > > If the PNGs are images with no text - usually hard to see the difference > > sometimes but text and fancy effects like drop shadows can require more > > bit > > depth. > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/PNG-Image-Optimization-tp4668374p4668379.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 7 14:13:38 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 14:13:38 -0400 Subject: "this me"? Message-ID: Really? That was the best we could come up with? That. Is. Horrible. And. Must. Die. In what context in the English language would that even begin to make sense? There are some bad ideas in LC, but that one is downright pathetic - right along with blank last items being treated like they don't exist. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 14:20:24 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 11:20:24 -0700 Subject: An SQL query to return an UPDATE for the results? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Don't know how many rows are involved but it would be much faster to select > all the rows from the memory db table with one SELECT, then build the > UPDATE statements using an LC script. An wrap the whole thing in BEGIN/END. There are three tables. One has a half dozen columns, and ~350 rows, a few of which would usually be done at once (although doing all 350 on load has to happen, too). The other would only use a couple of rows at a time (in fact, usually just one), but there are about 50 columns, some numeric, others text of various types, and a few booleans. It seems that a query that produces a string half a dozen lines that are already sql transactions, just needing BEGIN/END wrapper, would necessarily be faster than looping around on the received data. Right now, the various UPDATEs all get wrapped into a single transaction with BEGIN/END. I can't wrap the selects like that, due to the bug on the return values: SELECT val1,val2 FROM tableA SELECT val1 from tableB where tableA is all A and B is all B yields A,A <- this is correct B, A <- the A is left over from the prior query with more columns. > As for the NULL issue, you could do two selects, one for rows where the > column IS NULL and one for rows where the column is NOT NULL, and format > the UPDATE statements accordingly. But I wouldn't know which columns were NULL until I got the results of the query . . . But on further review, replace tab & tab with tab & "NULL" & tab would seem to handle the situation. > If you're sending the UPDATE statements over a network, you should use the > LC feature of supplying the values in a list of variables/an array to avoid > SQL injection issues. The "remote" would be a postgres server either on the same localnet, or wrapped with authentication over https. It may be insufficient imagination, but I'm not seeing how an attacker that can inject doesn't already have far more serious access . . . > Also, is it possible that there won't be a matching row in the disk/netwrk > database? If so, do the UPDATE and check if the return value is not zero; > if it is zero, it means no rows were updated and you need to do an INSERT > instead. That won't be an issue--the remote/master will have them all in one case, and is the "assigning power" for the key in the other. If a local creates (new debts or assets), it is going to know that it's new and to do an insert. > Not even gonna get into the issue os what happens if two users try to > update from memory at the same time, or perhaps that's not possible in your > application. Not really possible without the user having far more serious problems--if your secretaries are having some kind of update war on a bankruptcy file, or inputting conflicting data for a client's debts, that's beyond my ability to solve . . . :) thanks -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 7 14:23:30 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 11:23:30 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <159232600900.20130807112330@ahsoftware.net> Some context to put that into perspective: http://forums.runrev.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=14843&start=90#p82087 -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 7 14:29:22 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 20:29:22 +0200 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52029202.1060604@economy-x-talk.com> Mike, Reading the thread on the forum, to which you really should have linked yourself, I get the impression that it is a joke. I really can't figure out whether you're serious or not. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/7/2013 20:13, Mike Kerner wrote: > Really? That was the best we could come up with? That. Is. Horrible. > And. Must. Die. > > In what context in the English language would that even begin to make sense? > > There are some bad ideas in LC, but that one is downright pathetic - right > along with blank last items being treated like they don't exist. > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 7 14:34:58 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 14:34:58 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <52029202.1060604@economy-x-talk.com> References: <52029202.1060604@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: I wasn't looking at a thread. I was looking at Page 7, release notes for 6.1.1-rc2 On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > Mike, > > Reading the thread on the forum, to which you really should have linked > yourself, I get the impression that it is a joke. I really can't figure out > whether you're serious or not. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/**xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour > spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" > http://qery.us/3fi > > Fill out this survey please > http://livecodebeginner.**economy-x-talk.com/survey/ > > > On 8/7/2013 20:13, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> Really? That was the best we could come up with? That. Is. Horrible. >> And. Must. Die. >> >> In what context in the English language would that even begin to make >> sense? >> >> There are some bad ideas in LC, but that one is downright pathetic - right >> along with blank last items being treated like they don't exist. >> >> > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 7 14:36:17 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 14:36:17 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <52029202.1060604@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: And for the record, we're still talking about "this me", not the fact that if the last item in a container or sub-container is empty, it is treated as if it isn't there, which is an unbelievable PITA when dealing with the results from database queries. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I wasn't looking at a thread. I was looking at Page 7, release notes for > 6.1.1-rc2 > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Mark Schonewille < > m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> Reading the thread on the forum, to which you really should have linked >> yourself, I get the impression that it is a joke. I really can't figure out >> whether you're serious or not. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> >> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering >> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/**xtalkprogrammer >> KvK: 50277553 >> >> Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other >> colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com >> >> Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" >> http://qery.us/3fi >> >> Fill out this survey please >> http://livecodebeginner.**economy-x-talk.com/survey/ >> >> >> On 8/7/2013 20:13, Mike Kerner wrote: >> >>> Really? That was the best we could come up with? That. Is. Horrible. >>> And. Must. Die. >>> >>> In what context in the English language would that even begin to make >>> sense? >>> >>> There are some bad ideas in LC, but that one is downright pathetic - >>> right >>> along with blank last items being treated like they don't exist. >>> >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 7 14:40:16 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 20:40:16 +0200 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <52029202.1060604@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Mike, I haven't seen that yet. Where can I download the Release Notes or can you post the exactl syntax? I must admit that it would seem weird if "this me" were valid syntax. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. On 7 aug 2013, at 20:34, Mike Kerner wrote: > I wasn't looking at a thread. I was looking at Page 7, release notes for > 6.1.1-rc2 > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Mark Schonewille < > m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> Reading the thread on the forum, to which you really should have linked >> yourself, I get the impression that it is a joke. I really can't figure out >> whether you're serious or not. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> >> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering >> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/**xtalkprogrammer >> KvK: 50277553 >> >> Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour >> spaces. http://www.color-converter.com >> >> Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" >> http://qery.us/3fi >> >> Fill out this survey please >> http://livecodebeginner.**economy-x-talk.com/survey/ >> >> >> On 8/7/2013 20:13, Mike Kerner wrote: >> >>> Really? That was the best we could come up with? That. Is. Horrible. >>> And. Must. Die. >>> >>> In what context in the English language would that even begin to make >>> sense? >>> >>> There are some bad ideas in LC, but that one is downright pathetic - right >>> along with blank last items being treated like they don't exist. >>> >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 7 14:42:11 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 14:42:11 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <52029202.1060604@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Help->Release notes Page 7, at the top. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > Mike, > > I haven't seen that yet. Where can I download the Release Notes or can you > post the exactl syntax? > > I must admit that it would seem weird if "this me" were valid syntax. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour > spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. > > > > > > > On 7 aug 2013, at 20:34, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > I wasn't looking at a thread. I was looking at Page 7, release notes for > > 6.1.1-rc2 > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Mark Schonewille < > > m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > > > >> Mike, > >> > >> Reading the thread on the forum, to which you really should have linked > >> yourself, I get the impression that it is a joke. I really can't figure > out > >> whether you're serious or not. > >> > >> -- > >> Best regards, > >> > >> Mark Schonewille > >> > >> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > >> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/**xtalkprogrammer< > http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer> > >> KvK: 50277553 > >> > >> Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other > colour > >> spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > >> > >> Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" > >> http://qery.us/3fi > >> > >> Fill out this survey please > >> http://livecodebeginner.**economy-x-talk.com/survey/< > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/> > >> > >> > >> On 8/7/2013 20:13, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> > >>> Really? That was the best we could come up with? That. Is. > Horrible. > >>> And. Must. Die. > >>> > >>> In what context in the English language would that even begin to make > >>> sense? > >>> > >>> There are some bad ideas in LC, but that one is downright pathetic - > right > >>> along with blank last items being treated like they don't exist. > >>> > >>> > >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode< > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 7 16:32:12 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:32:12 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> On 08/08/2013, at 4:13 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Really? That was the best we could come up with? That. Is. Horrible. > And. Must. Die. > > In what context in the English language would that even begin to make sense? I've suggested it makes sense if you have multiple-personality disorder ;-) It's worthwhile reading the thread to get some perspective here. Here's a few options we've been throwing around: - the scriptObject - a bit clunky but quite descriptive and works anywhere - this behavior - also quite descriptive but only works inside a behavior obviously (perhaps returning the same as me outside a behavior???) - the behavior - possibly confusing when the behavior of me might return something else - this script - doesn't really make sense because what we want is an object reference - this me - was originally a joke but was implemented for the sake of implementing something and to see if somebody came up with something better I don't think I've missed any. My favorites are still the scriptObject or this behavior. Mark Waddingham picked this me for the sake of implementing something. So... if you don't like it then come up with something better ;-) Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From ray at linkit.com Wed Aug 7 16:38:16 2013 From: ray at linkit.com (Ray Horsley) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 16:38:16 -0400 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> Are there simple steps to do this anywhere? I believe I've added my tester's UDID. I just need to get him the app (standalone). TestFlight asks me to create an "IPA". I usually drink those :-) Not sure what that means in the world of software but I'm unable create one by "archiving" my app in Xcode 4.6.3. iTunes Connect seems to be interested only in gathering all the information for me to submit my app for approval in the store but I'm not there yet. Just need to get it onto somebody else's iPad for testing. Any help is greatly appreciated, Thanks, Ray Horsley LinkIt! Software From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 7 16:41:48 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 16:41:48 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: I would love to, and I would hope that this...thing...would be sent back where it came from. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 4:13 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > Really? That was the best we could come up with? That. Is. Horrible. > > And. Must. Die. > > > > In what context in the English language would that even begin to make > sense? > > I've suggested it makes sense if you have multiple-personality disorder ;-) > > It's worthwhile reading the thread to get some perspective here. > > Here's a few options we've been throwing around: > - the scriptObject - a bit clunky but quite descriptive and works anywhere > - this behavior - also quite descriptive but only works inside a behavior > obviously (perhaps returning the same as me outside a behavior???) > - the behavior - possibly confusing when the behavior of me might return > something else > - this script - doesn't really make sense because what we want is an > object reference > - this me - was originally a joke but was implemented for the sake of > implementing something and to see if somebody came up with something better > > I don't think I've missed any. My favorites are still the scriptObject or > this behavior. Mark Waddingham picked this me for the sake of implementing > something. > > So... if you don't like it then come up with something better ;-) > > Cheers > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 7 16:44:37 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 22:44:37 +0200 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> Hi, Behaviors used to be called parentScripts. An option could be "this parent". Also, currently syntax of the form "this control", "this button", "this group" etc throws an execution error. It would be very nice if this syntax would be used instead of "this me" and it would make sense. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/7/2013 22:32, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 4:13 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> Really? That was the best we could come up with? That. Is. Horrible. >> And. Must. Die. >> >> In what context in the English language would that even begin to make sense? > > I've suggested it makes sense if you have multiple-personality disorder ;-) > > It's worthwhile reading the thread to get some perspective here. > > Here's a few options we've been throwing around: > - the scriptObject - a bit clunky but quite descriptive and works anywhere > - this behavior - also quite descriptive but only works inside a behavior obviously (perhaps returning the same as me outside a behavior???) > - the behavior - possibly confusing when the behavior of me might return something else > - this script - doesn't really make sense because what we want is an object reference > - this me - was originally a joke but was implemented for the sake of implementing something and to see if somebody came up with something better > > I don't think I've missed any. My favorites are still the scriptObject or this behavior. Mark Waddingham picked this me for the sake of implementing something. > > So... if you don't like it then come up with something better ;-) > > Cheers > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > > From pderocco at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 7 16:45:29 2013 From: pderocco at ix.netcom.com (Paul D. DeRocco) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 13:45:29 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > From: Mike Kerner > > Really? That was the best we could come up with? That. Is. > Horrible. And. Must. Die. > > In what context in the English language would that even begin > to make sense? Typical English. Ever wonder about phrases like "There, there" or "My, oh my", or "hail fellow well met"? Let Google Translate choke on that. > There are some bad ideas in LC, but that one is downright > pathetic - right > along with blank last items being treated like they don't exist. Not having an assignment operator seems like an obsessive commitment to being "English". Having to write "put i + 1 into i" is pretty tedious. -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 7 16:46:54 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 13:46:54 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <52029202.1060604@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <149241204518.20130807134654@ahsoftware.net> Mike- Wednesday, August 7, 2013, 11:34:58 AM, you wrote: > 6.1.1-rc2 ????? Was there a release notice about this? I didn't get one if so. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From cmsheffield at icloud.com Wed Aug 7 16:54:22 2013 From: cmsheffield at icloud.com (Chris Sheffield) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 14:54:22 -0600 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> Message-ID: <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> Ray, Creating an ipa file is actually quite easy. It's just a zip archive (more or less) of your app bundle. There is a slight trick. Follow these steps: In the Finder, create a folder named Payload (the uppercase P is important). Copy your app bundle into that folder. Compress the Payload folder by right/control-clicking and choosing the Compress option. Now you have Payload.zip. Rename this file to [app_name].ipa. Case is important. The finder will ask you to confirm that you want to use the .ipa extension. Then you can distribute it via TestFlight, or you can email it to your tester and he/she can install it by dragging it into iTunes and then syncing his/her device. There are probably utilities around that can help you do this, but it's easy enough to do manually, so I haven't really bothered. Good luck. Chris -- Chris Sheffield Read Naturally, Inc. www.readnaturally.com On Aug 7, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Ray Horsley wrote: > Are there simple steps to do this anywhere? > > I believe I've added my tester's UDID. I just need to get him the app (standalone). TestFlight asks me to create an "IPA". I usually drink those :-) Not sure what that means in the world of software but I'm unable create one by "archiving" my app in Xcode 4.6.3. > > iTunes Connect seems to be interested only in gathering all the information for me to submit my app for approval in the store but I'm not there yet. Just need to get it onto somebody else's iPad for testing. > > Any help is greatly appreciated, > > Thanks, > > Ray Horsley > LinkIt! Software > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 7 16:56:13 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:56:13 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: On 08/08/2013, at 6:44 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Behaviors used to be called parentScripts. An option could be "this parent". Yes it could but it suffers the same problem of this behavior where it doesn't make sense outside a behavior script. > > Also, currently syntax of the form "this control", "this button", "this group" etc throws an execution error. It would be very nice if this syntax would be used instead of "this me" and it would make sense. Probably a separate topic... they would be synonyms of me rather than this me I think. Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 7 16:57:22 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:57:22 +1000 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> Message-ID: <42091F5D-6F93-4336-B605-BB9D53B8EA7B@sweattechnologies.com> On 08/08/2013, at 6:54 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > There are probably utilities around that can help you do this Cough... mergTestFlight... cough.... -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From cmsheffield at icloud.com Wed Aug 7 17:00:45 2013 From: cmsheffield at icloud.com (Chris Sheffield) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:00:45 -0600 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: <42091F5D-6F93-4336-B605-BB9D53B8EA7B@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> <42091F5D-6F93-4336-B605-BB9D53B8EA7B@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Ah, yes. How could I forget? Sorry Monte. :-) On Aug 7, 2013, at 2:57 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 6:54 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > >> There are probably utilities around that can help you do this > > Cough... mergTestFlight... cough.... > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 7 17:02:50 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 17:02:50 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Paul: Don't forget "add 1 to x". Yes, an assignment operator would be great, but that is a battle that goes back 25 years, along with several other things that really ought to change. When something new comes along but is not yet engrained in the culture, it's a lot easier to fix it. Mark W.: Go to the Help menu in 6.1.1 (rc2), scroll down to Release Notes. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 4:13 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > Really? That was the best we could come up with? That. Is. Horrible. > > And. Must. Die. > > > > In what context in the English language would that even begin to make > sense? > > I've suggested it makes sense if you have multiple-personality disorder ;-) > > It's worthwhile reading the thread to get some perspective here. > > Here's a few options we've been throwing around: > - the scriptObject - a bit clunky but quite descriptive and works anywhere > - this behavior - also quite descriptive but only works inside a behavior > obviously (perhaps returning the same as me outside a behavior???) > - the behavior - possibly confusing when the behavior of me might return > something else > - this script - doesn't really make sense because what we want is an > object reference > - this me - was originally a joke but was implemented for the sake of > implementing something and to see if somebody came up with something better > > I don't think I've missed any. My favorites are still the scriptObject or > this behavior. Mark Waddingham picked this me for the sake of implementing > something. > > So... if you don't like it then come up with something better ;-) > > Cheers > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 7 17:08:46 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:08:46 +0200 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> Monte, Why do you want "this me" to have sense outside a behavior script, if the only place where it will be used is in a behavior script? Apparently, "this group", "this control" etc. is not a synonym of "me" because currently "this group", "this control" etc. throws an execution error while "me" doesn't. That makes "this group", "this control" etc. a very feasible candidate. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/7/2013 22:56, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 6:44 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > >> Behaviors used to be called parentScripts. An option could be "this parent". > > Yes it could but it suffers the same problem of this behavior where it doesn't make sense outside a behavior script. >> >> Also, currently syntax of the form "this control", "this button", "this group" etc throws an execution error. It would be very nice if this syntax would be used instead of "this me" and it would make sense. > > Probably a separate topic... they would be synonyms of me rather than this me I think. > > Cheers > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > From ray at linkit.com Wed Aug 7 17:08:17 2013 From: ray at linkit.com (Ray Horsley) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 17:08:17 -0400 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> Message-ID: <0C83AFB5-0D6D-4D56-8AAA-2EF2E44246B7@LinkIt.Com> Chris, When I read through these steps I though "you're kidding me!" but they seem to have worked. The jury's actually still out till I hear back from my tester or try it myself. Anyway, many thanks! Does Monte have an app or something which facilitates this? I'm unable to find it searching through his site at: http://goulding.ws/ Ray Horsley LinkIt! Software On Aug 7, 2013, at 4:54 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > Ray, > > Creating an ipa file is actually quite easy. It's just a zip archive (more or less) of your app bundle. There is a slight trick. Follow these steps: > > In the Finder, create a folder named Payload (the uppercase P is important). > Copy your app bundle into that folder. > Compress the Payload folder by right/control-clicking and choosing the Compress option. > Now you have Payload.zip. Rename this file to [app_name].ipa. Case is important. The finder will ask you to confirm that you want to use the .ipa extension. > Then you can distribute it via TestFlight, or you can email it to your tester and he/she can install it by dragging it into iTunes and then syncing his/her device. > > There are probably utilities around that can help you do this, but it's easy enough to do manually, so I haven't really bothered. > > Good luck. > > Chris > > > -- > Chris Sheffield > Read Naturally, Inc. > www.readnaturally.com > > > > On Aug 7, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Ray Horsley wrote: > >> Are there simple steps to do this anywhere? >> >> I believe I've added my tester's UDID. I just need to get him the app (standalone). TestFlight asks me to create an "IPA". I usually drink those :-) Not sure what that means in the world of software but I'm unable create one by "archiving" my app in Xcode 4.6.3. >> >> iTunes Connect seems to be interested only in gathering all the information for me to submit my app for approval in the store but I'm not there yet. Just need to get it onto somebody else's iPad for testing. >> >> Any help is greatly appreciated, >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ray Horsley >> LinkIt! Software >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 7 17:14:37 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 14:14:37 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <186242867761.20130807141437@ahsoftware.net> Mike- Wednesday, August 7, 2013, 2:02:50 PM, you wrote: > Mark W.: Go to the Help menu in 6.1.1 (rc2), scroll down to Release Notes. Thanks. I know how to get Release Notes. Are you saying you got a release notice that rc2 was available? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From cmsheffield at icloud.com Wed Aug 7 17:20:26 2013 From: cmsheffield at icloud.com (Chris Sheffield) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:20:26 -0600 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: <0C83AFB5-0D6D-4D56-8AAA-2EF2E44246B7@LinkIt.Com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> <0C83AFB5-0D6D-4D56-8AAA-2EF2E44246B7@LinkIt.Com> Message-ID: <4020414C-0F99-41F7-AC12-7E1EACB50C28@icloud.com> Yes, if you're using TestFlight. Head to mergext.com, hit the Download link (you may have to create a free account first; I can't remember) and then locate the link for mergTestApp. It's a free plugin. Very useful, especially for testing app builds on a local device. One click will build your app and copy it to your device. You can set it up to automatically build and upload your app to TestFlight as well. Quite handy. On Aug 7, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Ray Horsley wrote: > Chris, > > When I read through these steps I though "you're kidding me!" but they seem to have worked. The jury's actually still out till I hear back from my tester or try it myself. Anyway, many thanks! > > Does Monte have an app or something which facilitates this? I'm unable to find it searching through his site at: > > http://goulding.ws/ > > Ray Horsley > LinkIt! Software > > On Aug 7, 2013, at 4:54 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > >> Ray, >> >> Creating an ipa file is actually quite easy. It's just a zip archive (more or less) of your app bundle. There is a slight trick. Follow these steps: >> >> In the Finder, create a folder named Payload (the uppercase P is important). >> Copy your app bundle into that folder. >> Compress the Payload folder by right/control-clicking and choosing the Compress option. >> Now you have Payload.zip. Rename this file to [app_name].ipa. Case is important. The finder will ask you to confirm that you want to use the .ipa extension. >> Then you can distribute it via TestFlight, or you can email it to your tester and he/she can install it by dragging it into iTunes and then syncing his/her device. >> >> There are probably utilities around that can help you do this, but it's easy enough to do manually, so I haven't really bothered. >> >> Good luck. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -- >> Chris Sheffield >> Read Naturally, Inc. >> www.readnaturally.com >> >> >> >> On Aug 7, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Ray Horsley wrote: >> >>> Are there simple steps to do this anywhere? >>> >>> I believe I've added my tester's UDID. I just need to get him the app (standalone). TestFlight asks me to create an "IPA". I usually drink those :-) Not sure what that means in the world of software but I'm unable create one by "archiving" my app in Xcode 4.6.3. >>> >>> iTunes Connect seems to be interested only in gathering all the information for me to submit my app for approval in the store but I'm not there yet. Just need to get it onto somebody else's iPad for testing. >>> >>> Any help is greatly appreciated, >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Ray Horsley >>> LinkIt! Software >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 7 17:33:57 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:33:57 +1000 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: <4020414C-0F99-41F7-AC12-7E1EACB50C28@icloud.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> <0C83AFB5-0D6D-4D56-8AAA-2EF2E44246B7@LinkIt.Com> <4020414C-0F99-41F7-AC12-7E1EACB50C28@icloud.com> Message-ID: <134152CB-8D3A-4843-9D6B-D56B42EACBFC@sweattechnologies.com> On 08/08/2013, at 7:20 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > Yes, if you're using TestFlight. Head to mergext.com, hit the Download link (you may have to create a free account first; I can't remember) and then locate the link for mergTestApp. It's a free plugin. Very useful, especially for testing app builds on a local device. One click will build your app and copy it to your device. You can set it up to automatically build and upload your app to TestFlight as well. Quite handy. Actually it's $9 ;-) -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From ray at linkit.com Wed Aug 7 17:32:57 2013 From: ray at linkit.com (Ray Horsley) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 17:32:57 -0400 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: <134152CB-8D3A-4843-9D6B-D56B42EACBFC@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> <0C83AFB5-0D6D-4D56-8AAA-2EF2E44246B7@LinkIt.Com> <4020414C-0F99-41F7-AC12-7E1EACB50C28@icloud.com> <134152CB-8D3A-4843-9D6B-D56B42EACBFC@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Just bought it. Thanks for the link! On Aug 7, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 7:20 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > >> Yes, if you're using TestFlight. Head to mergext.com, hit the Download link (you may have to create a free account first; I can't remember) and then locate the link for mergTestApp. It's a free plugin. Very useful, especially for testing app builds on a local device. One click will build your app and copy it to your device. You can set it up to automatically build and upload your app to TestFlight as well. Quite handy. > > Actually it's $9 ;-) > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 7 17:40:32 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:40:32 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> On 08/08/2013, at 7:08 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Why do you want "this me" to have sense outside a behavior script, if the only place where it will be used is in a behavior script? I'm not really sure but that's the main reason I can think of for 'this behavior' being rejected ;-) > > Apparently, "this group", "this control" etc. is not a synonym of "me" because currently "this group", "this control" etc. throws an execution error while "me" doesn't. That makes "this group", "this control" etc. a very feasible candidate. Sorry, I didn't mean it's currently a synonym of me. I meant that if implemented I think people would naturally expect it to be a synonym of me. Or perhaps this group in the context of a control script would actually be the containing group reference... -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From cmsheffield at icloud.com Wed Aug 7 17:41:03 2013 From: cmsheffield at icloud.com (Chris Sheffield) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:41:03 -0600 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: <134152CB-8D3A-4843-9D6B-D56B42EACBFC@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> <0C83AFB5-0D6D-4D56-8AAA-2EF2E44246B7@LinkIt.Com> <4020414C-0F99-41F7-AC12-7E1EACB50C28@icloud.com> <134152CB-8D3A-4843-9D6B-D56B42EACBFC@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Wow, I'm striking out today. Sorry. I forget that I already have a mergExt subscription and it's included in that. :-) On Aug 7, 2013, at 3:33 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 7:20 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > >> Yes, if you're using TestFlight. Head to mergext.com, hit the Download link (you may have to create a free account first; I can't remember) and then locate the link for mergTestApp. It's a free plugin. Very useful, especially for testing app builds on a local device. One click will build your app and copy it to your device. You can set it up to automatically build and upload your app to TestFlight as well. Quite handy. > > Actually it's $9 ;-) > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 7 17:42:28 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:42:28 +1000 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> <0C83AFB5-0D6D-4D56-8AAA-2EF2E44246B7@LinkIt.Com> <4020414C-0F99-41F7-AC12-7E1EACB50C28@icloud.com> <134152CB-8D3A-4843-9D6B-D56B42EACBFC@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <7132E7E0-ADBB-4A25-A43B-B0EB32989E68@sweattechnologies.com> On 08/08/2013, at 7:41 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > Wow, I'm striking out today. Sorry. I forget that I already have a mergExt subscription and it's included in that. :-) It's the bargain of the century ;-) -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Aug 7 17:43:11 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 21:43:11 +0000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <186242867761.20130807141437@ahsoftware.net> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <186242867761.20130807141437@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <24DD5057-7DFB-4356-BC6A-3F1C43B8106C@byu.edu> On Aug 7, 2013, at 3:14 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Mike- > > Wednesday, August 7, 2013, 2:02:50 PM, you wrote: > >> Mark W.: Go to the Help menu in 6.1.1 (rc2), scroll down to Release Notes. > > Thanks. I know how to get Release Notes. > Are you saying you got a release notice that rc2 was available? I didn't get a notice either, but after reading this thread I did a Check for Updates and rc2 came up as available. Usually these notices come up automatically. Devin Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University http://university.livecode.com From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 7 17:54:45 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:54:45 +0200 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> Monte, First of all, if it is properly documented, people will understand that "this control" is a bit of an exception. Second, if you ask for ideas, you should not immediately reject everything I write, because you're scaring potential contributors to the discussion. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/7/2013 23:40, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 7:08 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > >> Why do you want "this me" to have sense outside a behavior script, if the only place where it will be used is in a behavior script? > > I'm not really sure but that's the main reason I can think of for 'this behavior' being rejected ;-) >> >> Apparently, "this group", "this control" etc. is not a synonym of "me" because currently "this group", "this control" etc. throws an execution error while "me" doesn't. That makes "this group", "this control" etc. a very feasible candidate. > > Sorry, I didn't mean it's currently a synonym of me. I meant that if implemented I think people would naturally expect it to be a synonym of me. Or perhaps this group in the context of a control script would actually be the containing group reference... > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 7 18:19:27 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 17:19:27 -0500 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> Message-ID: <5202C7EF.8020102@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/7/13 3:54 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > Ray, > > Creating an ipa file is actually quite easy. It's just a zip archive (more or less) of your app bundle. There is a slight trick. Follow these steps: > > In the Finder, create a folder named Payload (the uppercase P is important). > Copy your app bundle into that folder. > Compress the Payload folder by right/control-clicking and choosing the Compress option. > Now you have Payload.zip. Rename this file to [app_name].ipa. Case is important. The finder will ask you to confirm that you want to use the .ipa extension. > Then you can distribute it via TestFlight, or you can email it to your tester and he/she can install it by dragging it into iTunes and then syncing his/her device. > > There are probably utilities around that can help you do this, but it's easy enough to do manually, so I haven't really bothered. AirLaunch. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 7 18:20:13 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 08:20:13 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> On 08/08/2013, at 7:54 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > First of all, if it is properly documented, people will understand that "this control" is a bit of an exception. Sure, proper documentation can help. I personally don't like that this control could mean something other than me because it seems like a natural synonym and could cause confusion when moving a script into a behavior. > > Second, if you ask for ideas, you should not immediately reject everything I write, because you're scaring potential contributors to the discussion. How long is an appropriate time for me to wait? Do I need to send a couple of supportive emails then point out the problems I see or what? I don't really have time to do that. I didn't ask for ideas. I said people that have a problem with 'this me' should come up with something better. Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 7 18:21:31 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 17:21:31 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <186242867761.20130807141437@ahsoftware.net> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <186242867761.20130807141437@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <5202C86B.5050601@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/7/13 4:14 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Mike- > > Wednesday, August 7, 2013, 2:02:50 PM, you wrote: > >> Mark W.: Go to the Help menu in 6.1.1 (rc2), scroll down to Release Notes. > > Thanks. I know how to get Release Notes. > Are you saying you got a release notice that rc2 was available? > I didn't get a release notice either, but when I read about it here on the list I chose "Check for updates" from the Help menu and there it was. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 7 18:24:15 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 00:24:15 +0200 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> Oh I see. You suggest people should come up with something better but you don't care that the syntax is super ugly now. Thanks for clearing that up. I'll just leave you to it then. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/8/2013 00:20, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 7:54 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > >> First of all, if it is properly documented, people will understand that "this control" is a bit of an exception. > > Sure, proper documentation can help. I personally don't like that this control could mean something other than me because it seems like a natural synonym and could cause confusion when moving a script into a behavior. >> >> Second, if you ask for ideas, you should not immediately reject everything I write, because you're scaring potential contributors to the discussion. > > > How long is an appropriate time for me to wait? Do I need to send a couple of supportive emails then point out the problems I see or what? I don't really have time to do that. > > I didn't ask for ideas. I said people that have a problem with 'this me' should come up with something better. > > Cheers > > -- > Monte Goulding > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 7 18:30:02 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 08:30:02 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> On 08/08/2013, at 8:24 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Oh I see. You suggest people should come up with something better but you don't care that the syntax is super ugly now. Thanks for clearing that up. I'll just leave you to it then. It's not my feature so why are you leaving it to me? I have already said I prefer the scriptObject or this behavior. -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 7 18:45:51 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 00:45:51 +0200 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> Then why did you accept "this me"? In the discussion I am having with you now, you said "this behavior" doesn't make sense. Now I'm really putting an end to this discussion. It doesn't seem to lead anywhere, but I do hope others will contribute with some really good ideas. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/8/2013 00:30, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 8:24 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > >> Oh I see. You suggest people should come up with something better but you don't care that the syntax is super ugly now. Thanks for clearing that up. I'll just leave you to it then. > > It's not my feature so why are you leaving it to me? I have already said I prefer the scriptObject or this behavior. > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > From shawnlivecode at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 18:53:00 2013 From: shawnlivecode at gmail.com (Shawn Blc) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 17:53:00 -0500 Subject: Extra SQL Yoga gone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No problem. I forgot that as a lifetime license contributor to the kickstarter campaign that I also got licenses to SQL Yoga, MobGui and AE. Got my license keys today. LOL. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 7:39 PM, James Hale wrote: > Hi all, > > The seat has gone. Thank you. > > James > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 7 19:31:50 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:31:50 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: On 08/08/2013, at 8:45 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Then why did you accept "this me"? It's not up to me to accept it or not so I'm not sure where you got that from. > > In the discussion I am having with you now, you said "this behavior" doesn't make sense. Yes, it doesn't make sense outside the context of a behavior script but I'm not really sure why that's important so I still like it. > > Now I'm really putting an end to this discussion. It's been such a pleasure conversing with you Mark. > It doesn't seem to lead anywhere, Well that's up to you. It could lead to you proposing this control on the engine forum if you feel despite my criticism it's the best option. > but I do hope others will contribute with some really good ideas. Sure, I'd like to discuss good ideas. -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 20:34:03 2013 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 08:34:03 +0800 Subject: With Apple script no longer supported, how do I.... In-Reply-To: <626C9B61-F63A-45FF-8676-5FBC2B729C84@sbcglobal.net> References: <626C9B61-F63A-45FF-8676-5FBC2B729C84@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 6:55 AM, Jim Hurley wrote: > With Apple script gone, > Where did it go? The Mavericks Core Technology Overview PDF still lists AppleScript. Has there been a recent announcement that AppleScript is being dropped? From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 7 21:02:04 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 21:02:04 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Sorry, Mark W, I didn't understand what you were asking. I don't think I got a notice. I think it popped up in LC when I was launching it. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 8:45 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > > > Then why did you accept "this me"? > > It's not up to me to accept it or not so I'm not sure where you got that > from. > > > > In the discussion I am having with you now, you said "this behavior" > doesn't make sense. > > Yes, it doesn't make sense outside the context of a behavior script but > I'm not really sure why that's important so I still like it. > > > > Now I'm really putting an end to this discussion. > > It's been such a pleasure conversing with you Mark. > > > It doesn't seem to lead anywhere, > > Well that's up to you. It could lead to you proposing this control on the > engine forum if you feel despite my criticism it's the best option. > > > but I do hope others will contribute with some really good ideas. > > Sure, I'd like to discuss good ideas. > > -- > M E R Goulding > Software development services > Bespoke application development for vertical markets > > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 7 21:28:38 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 21:28:38 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: this is obviously a tough one because we have an extra level of abstraction to deal with, which also means, IMHO, that we are going to have more typing to do if we want the words to mean anything. Trying to use at least some of the vocabulary from the release notes, where "B" contains the script and "A" is using "B"'s script, I'm not sure why "me" in "B" SHOULD output "A". If I was reading that code (with "me" instead of "this me"), I would say it would/should always say "B", not "A", and that we have the whole meaning of "me" messed up. I understand why things are the other way, but IMHO, "me" should be the object that contains the script, and something like "callingObject" or "object calling this script" should output "A". HOWEVER, if I'm stuck with this behavior as described (UGH), then "the owner of this script" "the object this script belongs to" "the object containing this script" "the scriptContainer" "the scriptObject" are WAY better than "this me". Trevor, I think :-P would have been better than :-) when you suggested that. Can we PLEASE have ME be the object that contains the script? If you're in the script editor, and you see "ME", are you REALLY going to think "that's the object that's executing this script, but it might not be THIS object? Of course not. Also, so that I understand (because the explanation in the release notes was a little less than ideal), what happens if, say, "C" does a "send mouseup" to "A"? a) what will "ME" do (should send me "B")? b) what will "THIS ME #justkillmenow" do? On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Sorry, Mark W, I didn't understand what you were asking. > > I don't think I got a notice. I think it popped up in LC when I was > launching it. > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Monte Goulding < > monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote: > >> >> On 08/08/2013, at 8:45 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: >> >> > Then why did you accept "this me"? >> >> It's not up to me to accept it or not so I'm not sure where you got that >> from. >> > >> > In the discussion I am having with you now, you said "this behavior" >> doesn't make sense. >> >> Yes, it doesn't make sense outside the context of a behavior script but >> I'm not really sure why that's important so I still like it. >> > >> > Now I'm really putting an end to this discussion. >> >> It's been such a pleasure conversing with you Mark. >> >> > It doesn't seem to lead anywhere, >> >> Well that's up to you. It could lead to you proposing this control on the >> engine forum if you feel despite my criticism it's the best option. >> >> > but I do hope others will contribute with some really good ideas. >> >> Sure, I'd like to discuss good ideas. >> >> -- >> M E R Goulding >> Software development services >> Bespoke application development for vertical markets >> >> mergExt - There's an external for that! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 7 21:52:16 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 20:52:16 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/7/13 8:28 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > HOWEVER, if I'm stuck with this behavior as described (UGH), then > > "the owner of this script" > "the object this script belongs to" > "the object containing this script" > "the scriptContainer" > "the scriptObject" I vote for "the owner of this script" or "the scriptObject". Or alternately, "the owner of this behavior". -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 7 22:17:32 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 12:17:32 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <492C1C22-4080-4E83-8BCB-00E3868260BB@sweattechnologies.com> On 08/08/2013, at 11:28 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I'm not sure why "me" in "B" SHOULD output "A". If I was reading that code > (with "me" instead of "this me"), I would say it would/should always say > "B", not "A", and that we have the whole meaning of "me" messed up. I > understand why things are the other way, but IMHO, "me" should be the > object that contains the script, and something like "callingObject" or > "object calling this script" should output "A". The object with the behavior script is just a container. The script is basically appended to the script of the object that has it's behavior set so me should mean that object. > > HOWEVER, if I'm stuck with this behavior as described (UGH), then > > "the owner of this script" > "the object this script belongs to" > "the object containing this script" > "the scriptContainer" > "the scriptObject" > > are WAY better than "this me". Trevor, I think :-P would have been better > than :-) when you suggested that. Yeah... the scriptObject is one of my favorites. I don't think we can have multiple word functions so we need to camel case it. > > > Can we PLEASE have ME be the object that contains the script? If you're in > the script editor, and you see "ME", are you REALLY going to think "that's > the object that's executing this script, but it might not be THIS object? > Of course not. Unfortunately behaviors have been in the engine for 5 years or so with me meaning the object with the behavior rather than the object with the script. > > Also, so that I understand (because the explanation in the release notes > was a little less than ideal), what happens if, say, "C" does a "send > mouseup" to "A"? > a) what will "ME" do (should send me "B")? > b) what will "THIS ME #justkillmenow" do? If the behavior script is: on mouseUp put the short name of me & cr & the short name of this me end mouseUp The behavior script is contained in button B and set as behavior of button A then the message box should show: A B Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 7 22:39:51 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 12:39:51 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> On 08/08/2013, at 11:52 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I vote for "the owner of this script" or "the scriptObject". Or alternately, "the owner of this behavior". I think 'the object containing this script' spells it out most clearly... using the owner my introduce confusion with the object hierarchy owner. But I don't think it's possible to do and nobody wants to write the objectContainingThisScript... Mark Waddingham recently proposed this script but when we actually are getting an object reference that doesn't make sense either. Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 7 23:06:03 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 23:06:03 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: If this new feature is not going to be used very often, then "the object containing this script" is probably better than any of my ideas so far, but I think we can still do better for some reason. I want the phrase to be clear to the beginner, because if it's clear to the beginner, I think it will be clear to the rest of us when we are trying to remember what it is. We might also try "the object of this script" instead of "the object containing this script", but I don't think that's as clear, since "object" can be "the purpose" in that phrase. Then what do we do for the various versions of the name - short/long/etc., and which of those should the property return without modifiers? I guess it should contain the type, as well - button "b", but when we start writing, would we have the short name of the object containing this script? Actually, I kind of like that, since "me" is out, even though when I would be typing this silliness I would be thinking "me". If we go this way, could I pretty please get my name in the source code this one time? If not, can we please, please, please either count empty last items or change the database functions so empty last items aren't such a PITA? On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 11:52 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > > I vote for "the owner of this script" or "the scriptObject". Or > alternately, "the owner of this behavior". > > I think 'the object containing this script' spells it out most clearly... > using the owner my introduce confusion with the object hierarchy owner. But > I don't think it's possible to do and nobody wants to write the > objectContainingThisScript... Mark Waddingham recently proposed this script > but when we actually are getting an object reference that doesn't make > sense either. > > Cheers > > -- > M E R Goulding > Software development services > Bespoke application development for vertical markets > > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jiml at netrin.com Wed Aug 7 23:33:26 2013 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 20:33:26 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> How about the effective me? The dictionary defines 'effective' as "Used with inherited properties to specify the object's own setting or the setting inherited from the object's owner, whichever is actually displayed." Setting an object's behavior lets the object inherit the script from another object. Following the definition of effective, 'the effective me' would be the "me" inherited from the object containing the behavior script. Jim Lambert From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 8 00:03:07 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:03:07 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/7/13 9:39 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > I think 'the object containing this script' spells it out most > clearly... using the owner my introduce confusion with the object > hierarchy owner. But I don't think it's possible to do and nobody > wants to write the objectContainingThisScript... Mark Waddingham > recently proposed this script but when we actually are getting an > object reference that doesn't make sense either. The more I think about it, the more I like scriptObject. It's pretty self-explanatory. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 8 00:05:26 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 21:05:26 -0700 Subject: An SQL query to return an UPDATE for the results? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > Don't know how many rows are involved but it would be much faster to > select > > all the rows from the memory db table with one SELECT, then build the > > UPDATE statements using an LC script. An wrap the whole thing in > BEGIN/END. > > There are three tables. One has a half dozen columns, and ~350 rows, a > few of which would usually be done at once (although doing all 350 on > load has to happen, too). The other would only use a couple of rows > at a time (in fact, usually just one), but there are about 50 > columns, some numeric, others text of various types, and a few > booleans. > > It seems that a query that produces a string half a dozen lines that > are already sql transactions, just needing BEGIN/END wrapper, would > necessarily be faster than looping around on the received data. > Selecting 350 rows with 350 SELECT statements is always slower than selecting all the rows with 350 SELECT statements. > > Right now, the various UPDATEs all get wrapped into a single > transaction with BEGIN/END. > > I can't wrap the selects like that, due to the bug on the return values: > > SELECT val1,val2 FROM tableA > SELECT val1 from tableB > > where tableA is all A and B is all B yields > > A,A <- this is correct > B, A <- the A is left over from the prior query with more > columns. > > What bug? I have never experienced that. Alos , putting the SELECT > within the BEGIN/END stops anyone else updating the db at the same time, > although sounds like that;s not an issue , at last theoretically. > > > As for the NULL issue, you could do two selects, one for rows where the > > column IS NULL and one for rows where the column is NOT NULL, and format > > the UPDATE statements accordingly. > > But I wouldn't know which columns were NULL until I got the results of > the query . . . > Of course you wouldn't, that's the point of the separate SELECT statements. > > But on further review, > > replace tab & tab with tab & "NULL" & tab > > would seem to handle the situation. > > > If you're sending the UPDATE statements over a network, you should use > the > > LC feature of supplying the values in a list of variables/an array to > avoid > > SQL injection issues. > > > The "remote" would be a postgres server either on the same localnet, > or wrapped with authentication over https. It may be insufficient > imagination, but I'm not seeing how an attacker that can inject > doesn't already have far more serious access . . . > > Yes, insufficient imagination is what it is. I would think you would want to protect yourself from any hacks if you're dealing with bankruptcy information. > > > Also, is it possible that there won't be a matching row in the > disk/netwrk > > database? If so, do the UPDATE and check if the return value is not > zero; > > if it is zero, it means no rows were updated and you need to do an INSERT > > instead. > > That won't be an issue--the remote/master will have them all in one > case, and is the "assigning power" for the key in the other. If a > local creates (new debts or assets), it is going to know that it's new > and to do an insert. > > > Not even gonna get into the issue os what happens if two users try to > > update from memory at the same time, or perhaps that's not possible in > your > > application. > > Not really possible without the user having far more serious > problems--if your secretaries are having some kind of update war on a > bankruptcy file, or inputting conflicting data for a client's debts, > that's beyond my ability to solve . . . :) > > > thanks > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 8 00:06:06 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:06:06 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <5203192E.8090706@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/7/13 10:06 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > If we go this way, could I pretty please get my name in the source code > this one time? If not, can we please, please, please either count empty > last items or change the database functions so empty last items aren't such > a PITA? I hope they put your name in there, because changing how delimiters work would break 20+ years worth of code. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 8 00:12:04 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:12:04 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/7/13 11:03 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/7/13 9:39 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> I think 'the object containing this script' spells it out most >> clearly... using the owner my introduce confusion with the object >> hierarchy owner. But I don't think it's possible to do and nobody >> wants to write the objectContainingThisScript... Mark Waddingham >> recently proposed this script but when we actually are getting an >> object reference that doesn't make sense either. > > The more I think about it, the more I like scriptObject. It's pretty > self-explanatory. > And now that I've had 8 more minutes to think about it, how about "behaviorObject". That's even more descriptive. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 8 00:33:14 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 21:33:14 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> References: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> Message-ID: <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> Jim- Wednesday, August 7, 2013, 8:33:26 PM, you wrote: > How about the effective me? After my initial shock, I'm thinking that this is kind of not too bad. It's a weird use of "effective", but you could see if you're in the context of a behavior object by checking if me is not the effective me then... but personally I prefer "myself", if that's not too narcissistic or self-referential or something... if me is not myself then... -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 00:46:39 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:46:39 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> On 08/08/2013, at 2:12 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > And now that I've had 8 more minutes to think about it, how about "behaviorObject". That's even more descriptive. True but one of the nice things about scriptObject is that it works outside the behavior context. I did raise the issue on the forums about it being confusing if we ever get OOP though... -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 8 00:55:56 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:55:56 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> References: <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/7/13 11:46 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 2:12 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> And now that I've had 8 more minutes to think about it, how about >> "behaviorObject". That's even more descriptive. > > True but one of the nice things about scriptObject is that it works > outside the behavior context. I did raise the issue on the forums > about it being confusing if we ever get OOP though... I'm trying to think when a script object would not be "me" if it wasn't a behavior. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From janschenkel at yahoo.com Thu Aug 8 00:57:10 2013 From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 21:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <1375937830.33270.YahooMailNeo@web141101.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Here are my suggestions: - self - myself - this object The nerd inside wanted to suggest 'ego' and 'id' but that would have been over the top ;-) Jan Schenkel. ? ===== Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode www.quartam.com ===== "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." (La Rochefoucauld) ----- Original Message ----- > From: Monte Goulding > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 10:32 PM > Subject: Re: "this me"? > > > On 08/08/2013, at 4:13 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> Really?? That was the best we could come up with?? That.? Is.? Horrible. >> And.? Must.? Die. >> >> In what context in the English language would that even begin to make > sense? > > I've suggested it makes sense if you have multiple-personality disorder ;-) > > It's worthwhile reading the thread to get some perspective here. > > Here's a few options we've been throwing around: > - the scriptObject - a bit clunky but quite descriptive and works anywhere > - this behavior - also quite descriptive but only works inside a behavior > obviously (perhaps returning the same as me outside a behavior???) > - the behavior - possibly confusing when the behavior of me might return > something else > - this script - doesn't really make sense because what we want is an object > reference > - this me - was originally a joke but was implemented for the sake of > implementing something and to see if somebody came up with something better > > I don't think I've missed any. My favorites are still the scriptObject > or this behavior. Mark Waddingham picked this me for the sake of implementing > something. > > So... if you don't like it then come up with something better ;-) > > Cheers > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 8 00:59:52 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:59:52 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> References: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <520325C8.6050101@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/7/13 11:33 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Jim- > > Wednesday, August 7, 2013, 8:33:26 PM, you wrote: > >> How about the effective me? > > After my initial shock, I'm thinking that this is kind of not too bad. > It's a weird use of "effective", but you could see if you're in the > context of a behavior object by checking > > if me is not the effective me then... > > but personally I prefer "myself", if that's not too narcissistic or > self-referential or something... > > if me is not myself then... > I'm hardly ever myself, but I do sort of like "effective me". I'd put it in second place after "behaviorObject" (or "scriptObject" if we must.) It's a clever use of language we already have. The down side is that it still has that "me" in it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 01:09:50 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:09:50 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> References: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> Message-ID: On 08/08/2013, at 1:33 PM, Jim Lambert wrote: > How about the effective me? I think it might be difficult to implement because me is not a property but it did make me think of somethign that would be easy to implement and quite reasonable syntax I think: the effective behavior of me Where the effective modifier ensures that the behavior property returns the object reference to the script object... any thoughts on that? -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 01:13:41 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:13:41 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <3DABB7BB-0933-41EC-8357-A441D3954B27@sweattechnologies.com> On 08/08/2013, at 2:55 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I'm trying to think when a script object would not be "me" if it wasn't a behavior. right, that's what I was saying was nice about scriptObject.. but I'm sold on 'the effective behavior of me' now -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 8 01:11:35 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 00:11:35 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <3DABB7BB-0933-41EC-8357-A441D3954B27@sweattechnologies.com> References: <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <3DABB7BB-0933-41EC-8357-A441D3954B27@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <52032887.1040407@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/8/13 12:13 AM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 08/08/2013, at 2:55 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> I'm trying to think when a script object would not be "me" if it >> wasn't a behavior. > > right, that's what I was saying was nice about scriptObject.. but I'm > sold on 'the effective behavior of me' now Yeah, I effectively like that too. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 01:32:01 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:32:01 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <52032887.1040407@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <3DABB7BB-0933-41EC-8357-A441D3954B27@sweattechnologies.com> <52032887.1040407@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 08/08/2013, at 3:11 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > Yeah, I effectively like that too. One of the nice things about it is it's quite easy to implement. For those that haven't had a look at the source the function to get an object property has a boolean 'effective' parameter. So if true you would compare the object with the executing handler object and if the same return a reference to the executing handler object otherwise return the behavior property as normal. Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From nm at studionm.pl Thu Aug 8 02:47:15 2013 From: nm at studionm.pl (Marek Niesiobedzki) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 08:47:15 +0200 Subject: With Apple script no longer supported, how do I.... Message-ID: <3A54A35E-A61D-4BDA-8919-3FEF4B948626@studionm.pl> If FM and your stack is on the same computer you can exchange data by ODBC. Marek From admin at FlexibleLearning.com Thu Aug 8 06:30:23 2013 From: admin at FlexibleLearning.com (FlexibleLearning.com) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:30:23 +0100 Subject: Getting the Public IP address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am trying to establish the User's public IP address. The Scripter's Scrapbook has several methods, all of which return the same result and all of which seem to return a local IP address (e.g. put the hostnametoaddress of the hostname into myIP). I am getting 192.168.2.2 (local) instead of the required 85.210.89.23 (public). It must be possible as a google search on 'My IP address' displays it. As a self-confessed die-hard IP nitwit, I have tried to research a solution but have failed miserably. Has anyone got a method to obtain a User's public IP address? Many thanks, Hugh Senior FLCo From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 8 06:40:19 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:40:19 +0200 Subject: Getting the Public IP address In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52037593.5080308@economy-x-talk.com> Hugh, If there is a public IP address, there is an internet connection. In most cases, you can access web sites. put URL "http://qery.us/iptest.php" should work. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/8/2013 12:30, FlexibleLearning.com wrote: > I am trying to establish the User's public IP address. The Scripter's > Scrapbook has several methods, all of which return the same result and all > of which seem to return a local IP address (e.g. put the hostnametoaddress > of the hostname into myIP). I am getting 192.168.2.2 (local) instead of the > required 85.210.89.23 (public). It must be possible as a google search on > 'My IP address' displays it. > > As a self-confessed die-hard IP nitwit, I have tried to research a solution > but have failed miserably. > > Has anyone got a method to obtain a User's public IP address? > > Many thanks, > > Hugh Senior > FLCo > From bleiler at buffalo.edu Thu Aug 8 09:01:22 2013 From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:01:22 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <3DABB7BB-0933-41EC-8357-A441D3954B27@sweattechnologies.com> References: <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <3DABB 7BB-0933-41EC-8357-A441D3954B27@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> This is an interesting discussion. For my 2 cents worth, I'm currently in favor of 'the effective behavior of me' but I'm curious why it's needed. What circumstances require a means of determining the control that provides the behavior script? Since behaviors were introduced, I've always thought of them as a flexible way to extend a script. In that case, any reference to "me" is specific to the control with the attached behavior and you can safely use "me" to refer to the control using the behavior script. I haven't thought of any reason to refer back to the control that provides the behavior script. So, to the extent that it might effect preferences for the syntax, what are some examples of how this would be used? Tim Bleiler, Ph.D. Instructional Designer, HSIT University at Buffalo From bleiler at buffalo.edu Thu Aug 8 09:37:20 2013 From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:37:20 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> References: <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <3DABB 7BB-0933-41EC-8357-A441D3954B27@sweattechnologies.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> On Aug 8, 2013, at 9:01 AM, Timothy Bleiler wrote: > > So, to the extent that it might effect preferences for the syntax, what are some examples of how this would be used? Too early in the morning. Just to be clear and avoid prosecution by the grammar police - to the extent that it might AFFECT preferences? More importantly, for those following along, there is a parallel discussion about this on the forums in Engine Contributors under the subject "Feature_Inherited_Parentscripts". Trevor Devore described one example of how this could be useful. Tim Bleiler, Ph.D. Instructional Designer, HSIT University at Buffalo From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 8 09:44:13 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:44:13 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> References: <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: "The effective behavior" in no way implies "B" or "A" when reading it. To me, anyway, it implies the script, not the container or the container's name. Jacque, I would LOVE to discuss fixing the bizarre way empty last items are treated, starting with either having a preference to modify the behavior, separate functions/commands, or tweaking the database library so I don't have to deal with this all the time. On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Timothy Bleiler wrote: > On Aug 8, 2013, at 9:01 AM, Timothy Bleiler wrote: > > > > So, to the extent that it might effect preferences for the syntax, what > are some examples of how this would be used? > > Too early in the morning. Just to be clear and avoid prosecution by the > grammar police - to the extent that it might AFFECT preferences? > > More importantly, for those following along, there is a parallel > discussion about this on the forums in Engine Contributors under the > subject "Feature_Inherited_Parentscripts". Trevor Devore described one > example of how this could be useful. > > > Tim Bleiler, Ph.D. > Instructional Designer, HSIT > University at Buffalo > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 8 10:01:48 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 07:01:48 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> References: <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <5203A4CC.8050803@fourthworld.com> Timothy Bleiler wrote: > This is an interesting discussion. For my 2 cents worth, I'm > currently in favor of 'the effective behavior of me' but I'm > curious why it's needed. FWIW I find myself leaning toward "scriptObject" because it's the least like anything else in the language, and needing this is a very unusual circumstance, as you note. I think sometimes we risk usability with the "English-like" mandate, entertaining strings that may be readable in terms of natural language but at the cost of skimmability. Code is often only read once, at the time it's written. Beyond that, it's far more frequently skimmed, scanning blocks for tokens that help us hone in on the source of a problem, or the point where we need to add an enhancement. "scriptObject" stands out visually, and is easy to type. Extra bonus points that this is a relatively rare need so having a truly distinctive token doesn't hurt. English is designed (if we can even use that word for the historical accident that is our language) to be used by humans; computers are entities too stupid to count past 1. English is chock full o' ambiguities, requiring uniquely human intelligence to parse the context to derive the meaning (consider gerunds, for example), and attempting that too much risks a lot of processing time and even cognitive load (lots of typing, and remembering exactly what form of "English-like" phrase is needed), for minimal benefit. Array syntax is my favorite example here: clear and concise, arrays bear no resemblance to anything in English, while they have a lot in common with other, lower-level, computer languages. I see that as a feature, not a bug, because computer languages serve a very different set of goals than human languages. I'm not advocating we take that to the extreme; I've learned my lesson about dot notation . I'm merely suggesting we strive for a balance, recognizing up front that any computer language will never be truly English-like, and that sometimes we have an opportunity for greater usability with both writing and skimming when we aim for what works simply over what we might imagine is "English-like". Having made that plea for simplicity in programming, please allow me to complicate this now: :) Taking the idea of scriptObject further, for the rarer-but-not-unthinkable need to know all of the objects in an object's message path, might we consider extending this further to include: the effective scriptObjects of ...which would return a return-delimited list of all objects in the message path of ? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 8 10:54:23 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:54:23 +0100 (BST) Subject: Getting the Public IP address In-Reply-To: <52037593.5080308@economy-x-talk.com> References: <52037593.5080308@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <1375973663.33401.YahooMailNeo@web28805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> > I am trying to establish the User's public IP address. The Scripter's > Scrapbook has several methods, all of which return the same result and all > of which seem to return a local IP address (e.g. put the hostnametoaddress > of the hostname into myIP). I am getting 192.168.2.2 (local) instead of the > required 85.210.89.23 (public). It must be possible as a google search on > 'My IP address' displays it. You didn't say anything about what you want that IP address for. Make sure you do really want "the public IP address" as there are lots of situations where this concept isn't very useful. The IP address for the device that is running the app is almost certainly a local network address. In most homes the public IP address belongs to your router and your PC, Mac or mobile device knows nothing about it. As such something like Mark's: > put URL "http://qery.us/iptest.php" Is the only sane way to go about getting your "public" address. Note that in some scenarios there can also be a proxy at your company or ISP between you and the server at the other end, so this address may not even belong exclusively to you, it's just the address that a remote server needs to send packets back to for them to be routed to you. ?In most situations, without explicit routes set up, there's no way for a remote computer to initiate contact with you. For example in some large corporate environments all traffic is routed through a central monitoring system, so this kind of web lookup results in an address that might not even be in the same country as you. Also, depending on the robustness of your required solution, you may not want to rely on a 3rd party service to return your address to you. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Aug 8 11:02:33 2013 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 17:02:33 +0200 Subject: Getting the Public IP address In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I created a php file with the following code and put it on my server. In my livecode app i am calling that php file with get URL "http://myserver.com/my php-file.php" to get the ip then. Regards, Matthias Am 08.08.2013 um 12:30 schrieb FlexibleLearning.com : > I am trying to establish the User's public IP address. The Scripter's > Scrapbook has several methods, all of which return the same result and all > of which seem to return a local IP address (e.g. put the hostnametoaddress > of the hostname into myIP). I am getting 192.168.2.2 (local) instead of the > required 85.210.89.23 (public). It must be possible as a google search on > 'My IP address' displays it. > > As a self-confessed die-hard IP nitwit, I have tried to research a solution > but have failed miserably. > > Has anyone got a method to obtain a User's public IP address? > > Many thanks, > > Hugh Senior > FLCo > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From devin_asay at byu.edu Thu Aug 8 11:09:36 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:09:36 +0000 Subject: Getting the Public IP address In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C4F533A-84DD-41DC-A9D2-E8C096831B26@byu.edu> On Aug 8, 2013, at 4:30 AM, FlexibleLearning.com wrote: > I am trying to establish the User's public IP address. The Scripter's > Scrapbook has several methods, all of which return the same result and all > of which seem to return a local IP address (e.g. put the hostnametoaddress > of the hostname into myIP). I am getting 192.168.2.2 (local) instead of the > required 85.210.89.23 (public). It must be possible as a google search on > 'My IP address' displays it. > > As a self-confessed die-hard IP nitwit, I have tried to research a solution > but have failed miserably. > > Has anyone got a method to obtain a User's public IP address? > > Many thanks, Hugh, if you have access to a web server with LiveCode Server on it you could check the environment variable $_SERVER["REMOTE_ADDR"]. The script would look something like this: I have an example on my on-rev site. Just hit http://dev.on-rev.com/myip.irev. Of course this presupposes that the end user has an active internet connection. HTH Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 11:24:53 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 08:24:53 -0700 Subject: An SQL query to return an UPDATE for the results? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > >> On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: >> It seems that a query that produces a string half a dozen lines that >> are already sql transactions, just needing BEGIN/END wrapper, would >> necessarily be faster than looping around on the received data. > Selecting 350 rows with 350 SELECT statements is always slower than > selecting all the rows with 350 SELECT statements. It's a single SELECT, but after doing that from the remote/file database, I haven't found any way other than 350 UPDATE statements to put in in the in-memory SQLite database. I make changes on the in-memory database, and have a lurking process that watches for lack of keystrokes and synchronizes periodically. So it will find a few rows with their "changed" column set from a single SELECT, which data then immediately gets written to the remote. I can loop through each line of the remote, but I'm thinking that it would be cleaner to do my query in a way that fills out the strings, so that rather than a few rows of "ABC" I get "UPDATE aTable SET valA='A', valB='B', valC='C' WHERE key='thisKey';" all ready to wrap in BEGIN/END and submit. And I'm thinking that I could replace any tab&tab with tab&"NULL"&tab before the insertion into postgres issue. All in all, the maintainability and my being able to see things clearly is the most important--the time to do the looping seems small compared to the lagtime on the remote query. >> Right now, the various UPDATEs all get wrapped into a single >> transaction with BEGIN/END. >> >> I can't wrap the selects like that, due to the bug on the return values: >> >> SELECT val1,val2 FROM tableA >> SELECT val1 from tableB >> >> where tableA is all A and B is all B yields >> >> A,A <- this is correct >> B, A <- the A is left over from the prior query with more >> columns. >> > What bug? I have never experienced that. ' I found this with postgres queries; the later lines get padded to the same number of items with the results of the earlier items! > Alos , putting the SELECT > within the BEGIN/END stops anyone else updating the db at the same time, > although sounds like that;s not an issue , at last theoretically. Correct. If two people are entering data, and enter different values, one is wrong. That level of user error is beyond anything I can solve . . . (A disclaimer to "fire your dumbest employee" ? :) ) >> > As for the NULL issue, you could do two selects, one for rows where the >> > column IS NULL and one for rows where the column is NOT NULL, and format >> > the UPDATE statements accordingly. >> >> But I wouldn't know which columns were NULL until I got the results of >> the query . . . >> > > Of course you wouldn't, that's the point of the separate SELECT statements. But if I have five columns that *could* be NULL, that's 32 combinations of SELECT, or 10 SELECTs that get reassembled . . . and then an ugly assembly of each row. >> The "remote" would be a postgres server either on the same localnet, >> or wrapped with authentication over https. It may be insufficient >> imagination, but I'm not seeing how an attacker that can inject >> doesn't already have far more serious access . . . >> >> Yes, insufficient imagination is what it is. I would think you would want > to protect yourself from any hacks if you're dealing with bankruptcy > information. Oh, I definitely want it protected--but it seems that I'm protecting against someone who already has full access to the internal network, including the program. When writing user-entered data (or calculated data; for that matter), I use a preSQL() function to wrap text in quotes, escape quotes, etc. (But the current issue is straight db to db). thanks again -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bleiler at buffalo.edu Thu Aug 8 11:28:52 2013 From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:28:52 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509 BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <1759841D-968B-4A3A-9152-980E71680587@buffalo.edu> On Aug 8, 2013, at 9:44 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > "The effective behavior" in no way implies "B" or "A" when reading it. To > me, anyway, it implies the script, not the container or the container's > name. Yes, it seems to have a more narrow application than some of the other suggestions. I can see how it might imply a reference to the script not the control. However, we set the behavior to a button reference, so "behavior" implies a control reference not a script reference. We don't set the behavior of control x to the script of button y. This discussion brings out some of the challenges and opportunities created by the new chained behaviors beyond the original, simpler case of a control with one behavior attached. In that case, you can write "Get the name of the behavior of me" and you have the behavior reference. But with chained behaviors I assume that only gives you the first behavior control in the chain. I think that's illustrated by Trevor's example in the forum post if I'm following it correctly. So the problem comes down to how we think of chained behaviors. On one hand, we may view all the behavior scripts from a "chain" as being part of a single script attached to a control. Then, all the syntax using me, effective etc. are based on or refer to the final "owner" of all the behaviors. That's the mental model the syntax supports up through version 6.1.1. However, more flexibility is opened up if we have syntax that simultaneously allows us to think of the chained behaviors as a modified message path. In a "modified message path model" we need to know which control in the chain we are "in" at a given time and its behavior, card or stack reference. Given a need to identify where we are in the chain I can see why the somewhat awkward "this me" was invented. I don't think any of the other syntax suggestions unambiguously identify where we are in the behavior chain at a given point of script execution. Tim Bleiler, Ph.D. Instructional Designer, HSIT University at Buffalo From userev at canelasoftware.com Thu Aug 8 12:12:56 2013 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:12:56 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5203A4CC.8050803@fourthworld.com> References: <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <5203A4CC.8050803@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9E7CD0CE-3E3A-493D-8B8F-CF0B687435AA@canelasoftware.com> On Aug 8, 2013, at 7:01 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > ...which would return a return-delimited list of all objects in the message path of ? Me like. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 8 12:29:20 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 12:29:20 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <9E7CD0CE-3E3A-493D-8B8F-CF0B687435AA@canelasoftware.com> References: <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <5203A4CC.8050803@fourthworld.com> <9E7CD0CE-3E3A-493D-8B8F-CF0B687435AA@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: I don't know if I like the term, but I like the idea. I've been trying to come up with something better. On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: > > On Aug 8, 2013, at 7:01 AM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > > ...which would return a return-delimited list of all objects in the > message path of ? > > Me like. > > > Best regards, > > Mark Talluto > canelasoftware.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 8 13:09:24 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:09:24 -0700 Subject: LiveCode on LinkedIn Message-ID: <5203D0C4.8050200@fourthworld.com> LinkedIn is a great resource for professionals, with an audience larger than Twitter's and fewer cat pictures than Facebook. ;) One of LinkedIn's main features is the member profile, where we list our skills and interests, and that's where you come in: It's common among LinkedIn members to include programming languages they have expertise in, like JavaScript, PHP, Python, etc. These languages are popular enough that you'll often find yourself prompted to endorse someone you know for those skills. But LiveCode doesn't have as much visibility on LinkedIn, so it almost never appears in such prompts - we can change that: First, be sure to list LiveCode among the skills in your profile. Second, when you have time you might consider adding that to endorsements for other LinkedIn members whose LiveCode skills you respect. I took a couple minutes this morning to add "LiveCode" as a skill in endorsements to some of the folks I know here. Unfortunately this can't be done with the prompt LinkedIn presents during most browsing of the site, but you can add LiveCode to the prompt that appears when browsing someone's profile. If you keep this in mind when browsing LinkedIn, hopefully we can raise awareness of LiveCode in that increasingly useful professional venue. Also, LinkedIn supports discussion groups, and there are several there related to LiveCode. Just search the groups there for LiveCode and you'll find them, including a few regional groups like the one for Portland and another for SoCal. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 13:32:43 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 10:32:43 -0700 Subject: An SQL query to return an UPDATE for the results? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And so I thought that I'd made a cute little couple of lines of code that replaced my loops. The updating worked, with a SELECT generating a slew of UPDATEs. And then I tried to deal with the case of an apostrophe in a field. Giving me something like SET adr='Fudd's Place' I suppose I could make the query come back as something like, SET adr=@Fudd's Place@ use a replace to escape the apostrophe's & such, and then turn it the quotes back . . . I guess it's back to looping, though: If I do use an ascii string of one or more characters, I need to deal with users entering that string (although this is in the "already fully compromised" category . . .) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jiml at netrin.com Thu Aug 8 13:42:34 2013 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 10:42:34 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0CA83712-E0B7-4E1C-89BF-5CED11F44F1D@netrin.com> Unlike Director's Lingo behaviors, LiveCode behaviors are more than just scripts. They are housed within an object. That object has properties; it may have custom properties. With chained behaviors you might want to know the currently executing 'link' in a chain (the 'this me'), so that you can get and set its custom property. Because one behavior could be part of many different chains, its properties become shared amongst those chains - kind of semi-global. That might be very useful and one reason why we need 'this me' or whatever it ends up being called. Jim Lambert From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Aug 8 13:40:39 2013 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 18:40:39 +0100 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <5203D817.7010604@cogapp.com> On 08/08/2013 14:44, Mike Kerner wrote: > "The effective behavior" in no way implies "B" or "A" when reading it. To > me, anyway, it implies the script, not the container or the container's > name. I agree. I'd hope that we can use either 'container' or 'object' somewhere in whatever syntax is arrived at, if the value is going to be a reference to an object. Ben From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Aug 8 13:45:30 2013 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 18:45:30 +0100 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> On 08/08/2013 14:44, Mike Kerner wrote: > I would LOVE to discuss fixing the bizarre way empty last items are > treated, starting with either having a preference to modify the behavior, > separate functions/commands, or tweaking the database library so I don't > have to deal with this all the time. Hi Mike, OK, I'll bite - you keep bringing this unrelated item into the discussion, time to put you out of your misery! This comes up from time to time. Opinions differ. Here's my take on it (a direct lift - thankfully cropped - from a message I wrote a couple of years ago - which was neither the first nor the last discussion...) I think the return (or equally the comma when dealing with items) doesn't "belong" to the line that it terminates (as I tend to think of it) - or indeed to the line that follows it (as perhaps you do); it is, indeed just a delimiter. It is mandatory to mark the boundary between two lines; it is optional at the end of the text. Therefore one return at the end of some text (preceded by a character other than a return) is optional, makes no difference to the count of lines. Two at the end of the text define an empty line between the two. A container consisting just of a single return has one line - in effect, it's the empty line between the start of the container and the comma. A container consisting of just two returns has two lines. When extracting one or more lines from a container, the return is included only between the returned lines. It's easier to see with items, and I think it is consistent: number of items in "," ---> 1 number of items in ",," ---> 2 number of items in ",,a" ---> 3 number of items in ",,a," ---> 3 item 2 to 3 of "a,b,c,d" ---> b,c If you take this model: - that the delimiters are not part of the chunk, but serve only to split text into two chunks; - that if there is no text following the delimiter, there is a chunk before it not after it; - and that the delimiter's appearance at the start of text indicates an empty chunk before it; are there any examples of LC behaviour which are inconsistent with it? Ben From ray at linkit.com Thu Aug 8 14:06:15 2013 From: ray at linkit.com (Ray Horsley) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:06:15 -0400 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: <5202C7EF.8020102@hyperactivesw.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> <5202C7EF.8020102@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Jackie, Do you have a trial version of AirLaunch? I've tried wrestling with MergExt which works in conjunction with TestFlight (which is the troublesome part) and I'm having no luck. I'd like to try AirLaunch and it sounds like the right tool since it doesn't depend on TestFlight. Thanks, Ray On Aug 7, 2013, at 6:19 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/7/13 3:54 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote: >> Ray, >> >> Creating an ipa file is actually quite easy. It's just a zip archive (more or less) of your app bundle. There is a slight trick. Follow these steps: >> >> In the Finder, create a folder named Payload (the uppercase P is important). >> Copy your app bundle into that folder. >> Compress the Payload folder by right/control-clicking and choosing the Compress option. >> Now you have Payload.zip. Rename this file to [app_name].ipa. Case is important. The finder will ask you to confirm that you want to use the .ipa extension. >> Then you can distribute it via TestFlight, or you can email it to your tester and he/she can install it by dragging it into iTunes and then syncing his/her device. >> >> There are probably utilities around that can help you do this, but it's easy enough to do manually, so I haven't really bothered. > > > AirLaunch. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pderocco at ix.netcom.com Thu Aug 8 14:13:07 2013 From: pderocco at ix.netcom.com (Paul D. DeRocco) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:13:07 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> References: <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com><0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com><5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com><062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com><5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com><5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com><792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com><5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com><52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com><225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com><520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com><17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu><2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <4C8EB348AB2B43239EEFBEBB9FE29F18@PAULD> > From: Ben Rubinstein > > It's easier to see with items, and I think it is consistent: > > number of items in "," ---> 1 > number of items in ",," ---> 2 > number of items in ",,a" ---> 3 > number of items in ",,a," ---> 3 > item 2 to 3 of "a,b,c,d" ---> b,c > > If you take this model: > - that the delimiters are not part of the chunk, but serve > only to split text > into two chunks; > - that if there is no text following the delimiter, there is > a chunk before it > not after it; > - and that the delimiter's appearance at the start of text > indicates an empty > chunk before it; > > are there any examples of LC behaviour which are inconsistent with it? YES. A listbox that has a return at the end of its contents allows the user to select a blank item following the last visible item. When building up the contents of the listbox a line at a time, you have to append the line of text if it is empty, or append a return and the line of text if it is not. Or, you have to append a line of text and a return each time, then remember to go back and remove the trailing return if anything was added. I'm not saying that behavior is necessarily wrong, it's just that there is some precedent for a return at the end implying an empty line. One third way to interpret a list would be to say that any trailing stuff that isn't followed by a delimiter would be ignored entirely. This would be counterintuitive when the delimiter is a printable character (e.g., "a,b,c,d" would ignore the "d"), but has some precedent when the delimiter is a return (some parsers ignore an unterminated last line in a text file). -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 8 14:34:55 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:34:55 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <4C8EB348AB2B43239EEFBEBB9FE29F18@PAULD> References: <4C8EB348AB2B43239EEFBEBB9FE29F18@PAULD> Message-ID: <5203E4CF.7070400@fourthworld.com> Paul D. DeRocco wrote: >> From: Ben Rubinstein ... >> are there any examples of LC behaviour which are inconsistent with it? > > YES. A listbox that has a return at the end of its contents allows the user > to select a blank item following the last visible item. When building up the > contents of the listbox a line at a time, you have to append the line of > text if it is empty, or append a return and the line of text if it is not. > Or, you have to append a line of text and a return each time, then remember > to go back and remove the trailing return if anything was added. Respectfully, that's a UI control flexibility, not a data processing convention. True, as with other property settings it requires us to be mindful of what we set the text to, but there may be times when it can be useful to allow the user to select a blank line. > I'm not saying that behavior is necessarily wrong, it's just that there is > some precedent for a return at the end implying an empty line. One third way > to interpret a list would be to say that any trailing stuff that isn't > followed by a delimiter would be ignored entirely. This would be > counterintuitive when the delimiter is a printable character (e.g., > "a,b,c,d" would ignore the "d"), but has some precedent when the delimiter > is a return (some parsers ignore an unterminated last line in a text file). We all have our pet peeves with any language, whether it's JavaScript or LiveCode or even English (the absence of a gender-independent third-person pronoun comes to mind). My favorite annoyance with xTalks is the decision by the HyperTalk team to allow some functions to be called as though they're properties - but not all. You can say "get the abs of -10" or "abs(-10)", and you can say "get offset("l", "hello") but not "get the offset of "l" in "hello". Stranger still, the "abs" function turns out to be an especially good example: it's an abbreviation for which the long form ("absolute") is not permitted. I kid you not. And with LiveCode specifically, don't get me started about "destroyStack". :) Some of these may be changed over time, but others are too pervasive, and the benefits of change less clear. No programming language is without its gotchas. In cases where the benefit of change is at best debatable, we just have to chalk it up on the list of things we have to learn and move on. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 15:10:41 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:10:41 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <5203E4CF.7070400@fourthworld.com> References: <4C8EB348AB2B43239EEFBEBB9FE29F18@PAULD> <5203E4CF.7070400@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > My favorite annoyance with xTalks is the decision by the HyperTalk team to > allow some functions to be called as though they're properties - but not > all. You can say "get the abs of -10" or "abs(-10)", and you can say "get > offset("l", "hello") but not "get the offset of "l" in "hello". > > Stranger still, the "abs" function turns out to be an especially good > example: it's an abbreviation for which the long form ("absolute") is not > permitted. I kid you not. > These are both going to be correctable in a soon-ish time frame if the new language features meet the spec. (waiting breathlessly) From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 15:19:34 2013 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:19:34 -0400 Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications Message-ID: Hi All, Recently, I wrote to many developers about the Open Source LiveCode Community Edition and some of them asked about the availability of Proficiency Certifications for Livecode developers: http://www.trainsignal.com/blog/top-7-programming-language-certifications Does exists plans to create LiveCode Certifications? Thanks in advance, Al From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 15:23:14 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:23:14 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 10:06 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I want the phrase to be > clear to the beginner, because if it's clear to the beginner > We're talking about behaviors -- clarity for the beginner left on a bus three hours ago. (but I'm still for being as clear as possible). From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 15:23:29 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:23:29 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:03 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > The more I think about it, the more I like scriptObject. It's pretty > self-explanatory. This gets my vote. From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 15:30:12 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:30:12 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:12 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > And now that I've had 8 more minutes to think about it, how about > "behaviorObject". That's even more descriptive. > This seems misleading -- you can already get the behavior of me, but if you want "where is this code located" that's a different concept, and scriptObject clearly identifies that. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 8 15:34:24 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 14:34:24 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> References: <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/8/13 12:45 PM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > I think the return (or equally the comma when dealing with items) > doesn't "belong" to the line that it terminates (as I tend to think of > it) - or indeed to the line that follows it (as perhaps you do); it is, > indeed just a delimiter. My mental model is different. I do think of the delimiter as "belonging" to the item it delimits. A return character belongs to the line it follows. A comma belongs to the item it follows. There is no requirement that a final delimiter be present, but if it is, it doesn't change the count. When you think of it that way, it all falls into place. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 15:33:50 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:33:50 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> References: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Jim- > > Wednesday, August 7, 2013, 8:33:26 PM, you wrote: > > > How about the effective me? > > After my initial shock, I'm thinking that this is kind of not too bad. > It's a weird use of "effective", but you could see if you're in the > context of a behavior object by checking > > if me is not the effective me then... > > but personally I prefer "myself", if that's not too narcissistic or > self-referential or something... > > if me is not myself then... > "effective" modifies a property to get the value whether it is set directly, or inherited. "me" always has a meaning, and is never inherited. Putting it another way, "effective" does not mean "inherited" From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 8 15:40:30 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:40:30 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5203F42E.1000203@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> My favorite annoyance with xTalks is the decision by the HyperTalk team to >> allow some functions to be called as though they're properties - but not >> all. You can say "get the abs of -10" or "abs(-10)", and you can say "get >> offset("l", "hello") but not "get the offset of "l" in "hello". >> >> Stranger still, the "abs" function turns out to be an especially good >> example: it's an abbreviation for which the long form ("absolute") is not >> permitted. I kid you not. > > These are both going to be correctable in a soon-ish time frame if the new > language features meet the spec. (waiting breathlessly) The latter would be useful, but the former need not be expanded. IMNSHO, allowing property syntax is a bug, not a feature, so further encouraging the growing list of "sometimes" rules would seem to hamper learnability rather than enhance it. Parentheses aren't evil. In fact, they serve as a gentle visual reminder that a value is being returned in that place. I know I'm in a minority on this one, so I won't belabor the point beyond this post. But reading the thread here some months back filled with glee at the prospect of inventing dozens of new ways to call a function or set a property made me cry at the prospect of having to teach all that to someone. If we were to expand the range of functions that can be called with property syntax, at some point we'd be faced with those that have more arguments than we can gracefully (or certainly intuitively) string out into an "English-like" statement. And even for those we could accommodate, consider: put the offset of "l" in "hello" starting at 2 ..as an alternative to the delightfully concise: put offset("l", "hello", 2) And what happens to the scripter who guesses incorrectly that the statement would be: put the offset of "l" in "hello" beginning with 2 ..or: put the offset of "l" in "hello" beginning with position 2 ..or: put the offset of "l" in "hello" beginning with character 2 ..or: put the offset of "l" in "hello" beginning after character 2 ...or: put the offset of "l" in "hello" beginning with the second character ..or: skipping the first 2 characters, how many characters in "hello" can I find "l" Who has the time to define all those templates, and how big would the engine be that contained them? Even just putting in the meta-rules that would define such templates would be a massive beast, or at least complex enough that, honestly, I'd rather see the time spent on other priorities (reliable startTime for QT-free media playback anyone?). As one (possibly irrelevant) example, ever look at how much code is needed for something as relatively simple as a Porter stemmer? The necessary meta-rules which could obviate the need to define fixed templates would turn stemming into true lemmatization - which is why few programs attempt lemmatization, cheating with the crudeness of stemming instead. With LC functions, so simple instead to just say functions require parens. Sure, you need to know the args, but if you don't know what a function is for why would you be using it anyway? I would caution that attempting to make a system that doesn't require learning risks being cumbersome if it's even possible at all. Some things just requiring learning. Let's keep the number of things that have to be learned small, and the rest will take care of itself. If remembering argument positions is the challenge, I'd love to see named args, like we see with XML attributes: offset(searchterm="l" searchedText="hello" start=2) Named arguments would have many useful applications, while creating an ever-expanding game of hunt-the-parser seems less productive. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Aug 8 15:46:56 2013 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 21:46:56 +0200 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> <5202C7EF.8020102@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Ray, i am using AirLaunch and all what i can tell is that it is extreme easy to use! I am using it with DropBox. I let Airlaunch save the file into my Public Dropbox folder. After saving, Airlaunch puts the D/L url into clipboard. So i just have to paste this URL into an email to send it to my customer. that?s it. But Airlaunch also supports uploads with FTP. The dropbox solution only works if you have an "older" dropbox account which still has the public folder. Newer accounts do not have this public folder anymore if i am correctly informed. Regards, Matthias Am 08.08.2013 um 20:06 schrieb Ray Horsley : > Jackie, > > Do you have a trial version of AirLaunch? I've tried wrestling with MergExt which works in conjunction with TestFlight (which is the troublesome part) and I'm having no luck. I'd like to try AirLaunch and it sounds like the right tool since it doesn't depend on TestFlight. > > Thanks, > > Ray > > On Aug 7, 2013, at 6:19 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 8/7/13 3:54 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote: >>> Ray, >>> >>> Creating an ipa file is actually quite easy. It's just a zip archive (more or less) of your app bundle. There is a slight trick. Follow these steps: >>> >>> In the Finder, create a folder named Payload (the uppercase P is important). >>> Copy your app bundle into that folder. >>> Compress the Payload folder by right/control-clicking and choosing the Compress option. >>> Now you have Payload.zip. Rename this file to [app_name].ipa. Case is important. The finder will ask you to confirm that you want to use the .ipa extension. >>> Then you can distribute it via TestFlight, or you can email it to your tester and he/she can install it by dragging it into iTunes and then syncing his/her device. >>> >>> There are probably utilities around that can help you do this, but it's easy enough to do manually, so I haven't really bothered. >> >> >> AirLaunch. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Thu Aug 8 15:54:57 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <8D062884AF90EDA-10BC-3131@webmail-m214.sysops.aol.com> I agree with Jacque's construct. I was thrown,long ago, with the number of items, say, in: "1,2,3,4," That last comma should indicate a "placeholder" for a fifth item at the end of the string, but there are in fact only four. One could say that since the last comma precedes "empty". The number of commas is not important, only the number of actual items, empty being much less than zero or blank or anything with even a tinge of real existence. It cannot even be thought of as a placeholder for some future fifth item. The last comma is real, but as there is no item following, it is simply superfluous. One would only have to worry about this sort of thing if it was desired to append more items. Then you have to watch out. Appending "5,6,7" is straightforward with the dangling comma. Appending without it is a different string entirely. Craig -----Original Message----- From: J. Landman Gay To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Thu, Aug 8, 2013 3:34 pm Subject: Re: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) On 8/8/13 12:45 PM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > I think the return (or equally the comma when dealing with items) > doesn't "belong" to the line that it terminates (as I tend to think of > it) - or indeed to the line that follows it (as perhaps you do); it is, > indeed just a delimiter. My mental model is different. I do think of the delimiter as "belonging" to the item it delimits. A return character belongs to the line it follows. A comma belongs to the item it follows. There is no requirement that a final delimiter be present, but if it is, it doesn't change the count. When you think of it that way, it all falls into place. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 16:00:33 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:00:33 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> References: <5202B1B5.6020601@economy-x-talk.com> <5202B75E.4000606@economy-x-talk.com> <05645CFA-2872-4C7D-8AE7-802EF03CA807@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <3DABB7BB-0933-41EC-8357-A441D3954B27@sweattechnologies.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Timothy Bleiler wrote: > So, to the extent that it might effect preferences for the syntax, what > are some examples of how this would be used? > This seems similar to the distinction between class and instance methods. Class methods are often used to store values that all the instances share in common. In LC, a local variable in the behavior seems like the reasonable way to handle this. For example, if you are writing Space Invaders and need to keep track of how many invaders are left, a local in the behavior script for the invaders would work. Having the scriptObject would let you store properties on the behavior object, which might come in handy if you want to save the stack? Not sure. It would also let you reference objects relative to the behavior object, which I think is how we got into this quicksand. For example, if there were a field for logging events on the same card as the behavior button, then the behavior script might include: on logThis someMessage put cr & someMessage after fld "log field of the owner of the scriptObject end logThis That seems somewhat contrived, and less than useful. Instead, since logging isn't as simple as the above (you'd likely want automatic timestamping, maybe additional formatting, etc.) you'd probably want to have a bolt-on behavior for *that*, and that would mean that the behavior you add to the behavior button needs to be able to reference the behavior button, which none of this addresses, I don't think. :-/ From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 8 16:06:27 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:06:27 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5203FA43.3020401@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Timothy Bleiler wrote: > >> So, to the extent that it might effect preferences for the syntax, what >> are some examples of how this would be used? > > This seems similar to the distinction between class and instance methods. > > Class methods are often used to store values that all the instances share > in common. In LC, a local variable in the behavior seems like the > reasonable way to handle this. For example, if you are writing Space > Invaders and need to keep track of how many invaders are left, a local in > the behavior script for the invaders would work. > > Having the scriptObject would let you store properties on the behavior > object, which might come in handy if you want to save the stack? Not sure. This raises an interesting question: What if you don't want to save those values? Or what if the value you want to use is a nested array, which is much slower to get in and out of a property than it is from a variable? Once we start down this road, we should consider a directive for variable declarations to be used by the class rather than the instance, perhaps something like: scriptObject local MyVar ..or: local to scriptObject myVar -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 8 16:12:17 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:12:17 -0500 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> <5202C7EF.8020102@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5203FBA1.5090909@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/8/13 2:46 PM, Matthias Rebbe wrote: > Ray, > > i am using AirLaunch and all what i can tell is that it is extreme easy to use! Thanks, that's great to hear. > The dropbox solution only works if you have an "older" dropbox account which still has the public folder. > Newer accounts do not have this public folder anymore if i am correctly informed. Dropbox now lets you make any of its folder "public" by choosing to share it with everyone. People with newer accounts can just make their own public folder and AirLaunch should work the same way there. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 16:15:40 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:15:40 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5203FA43.3020401@fourthworld.com> References: <5203FA43.3020401@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Dang, that's right, and I completely borked what I said -- local variables are unique to the object, not the scriptObject. So yes, scriptObject local MyVar or something like it would make sense for this use case. On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Geoff Canyon wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Timothy Bleiler wrote: >> >> So, to the extent that it might effect preferences for the syntax, what >>> are some examples of how this would be used? >>> >> >> This seems similar to the distinction between class and instance methods. >> >> Class methods are often used to store values that all the instances share >> in common. In LC, a local variable in the behavior seems like the >> reasonable way to handle this. For example, if you are writing Space >> Invaders and need to keep track of how many invaders are left, a local in >> the behavior script for the invaders would work. >> >> Having the scriptObject would let you store properties on the behavior >> object, which might come in handy if you want to save the stack? Not sure. >> > > This raises an interesting question: What if you don't want to save those > values? Or what if the value you want to use is a nested array, which is > much slower to get in and out of a property than it is from a variable? > > Once we start down this road, we should consider a directive for variable > declarations to be used by the class rather than the instance, perhaps > something like: > > scriptObject local MyVar > > ..or: > > local to scriptObject myVar > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 16:41:50 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 06:41:50 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <5203FA43.3020401@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <48476A62-E543-451F-9054-65C181109395@sweattechnologies.com> On 09/08/2013, at 6:15 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > Dang, that's right, and I completely borked what I said -- local variables > are unique to the object, not the scriptObject. So yes, > > scriptObject local MyVar > > or something like it would make sense for this use case. Something like this has been discussed I think as a possibility. It's probably in that thread somewhere... -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 16:43:27 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 06:43:27 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5203FA43.3020401@fourthworld.com> References: <5203FA43.3020401@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 09/08/2013, at 6:06 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > scriptObject local MyVar > > ..or: > > local to scriptObject myVar behavior local myVar? It's the script that's important in this instance rather than the object. Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 8 16:43:45 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 13:43:45 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <26327415518.20130808134345@ahsoftware.net> Geoff- Thursday, August 8, 2013, 12:33:50 PM, you wrote: > "effective" modifies a property to get the value whether it is set > directly, or inherited. "me" always has a meaning, and is never inherited. > Putting it another way, "effective" does not mean "inherited" But it *does* mean "inherited if not explicitly assigned" in all other uses of "effective" in xtalk. The problem is that "me" *is* inherited in a sense in a behavior script and refers not to the behavior object but to the root object. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 16:46:20 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 06:46:20 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5203D817.7010604@cogapp.com> References: <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D817.7010604@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <9347AB51-8CE3-4C05-A633-48B21C8EDB3B@sweattechnologies.com> On 09/08/2013, at 3:40 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > I agree. I'd hope that we can use either 'container' or 'object' somewhere in whatever syntax is arrived at, if the value is going to be a reference to an object. There's actually no precedence for that at all so I don't see why it should be a requirement: me, the target, the long id of , the behavior... Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 16:50:43 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 06:50:43 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5203A4CC.8050803@fourthworld.com> References: <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <5203A4CC.8050803@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 09/08/2013, at 12:01 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > the effective scriptObjects of I like the idea although it's arguably not complicated to parse the chain if you need to. Can you elaborate on the difference the effective adjective makes to the scriptObjects? Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 16:54:30 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 06:54:30 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <26327415518.20130808134345@ahsoftware.net> References: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> <26327415518.20130808134345@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <22DB9C34-D831-4FEF-BC98-47542220B39B@sweattechnologies.com> On 09/08/2013, at 6:43 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > But it *does* mean "inherited if not explicitly assigned" in all other > uses of "effective" in xtalk. The problem is that "me" *is* inherited > in a sense in a behavior script and refers not to the behavior object > but to the root object. Hmm... in the effective working screenRects there's no inheritance, just modification of the result. -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 8 16:57:52 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:57:52 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52040650.6080001@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > On 09/08/2013, at 12:01 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> the effective scriptObjects of > > I like the idea although it's arguably not complicated to parse the > chain if you need to. Can you elaborate on the difference the > effective adjective makes to the scriptObjects? To my eye it distinguishes "scriptObject" from "scriptObjects" in a useful way, and makes use of the existing "effective" keyword to note that it's dealing with a broader scope, often used to denote inheritance. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 17:03:09 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 07:03:09 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <52040650.6080001@fourthworld.com> References: <52040650.6080001@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <969B4DEC-A9F2-4164-A858-CCD0375BBA9F@sweattechnologies.com> On 09/08/2013, at 6:57 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > To my eye it distinguishes "scriptObject" from "scriptObjects" in a useful way, and makes use of the existing "effective" keyword to note that it's dealing with a broader scope, often used to denote inheritance. Hmm.... if there's no difference then I guess it could just be implemented as the scriptObjects and the effective adjective would just be ignored as it is with other properties that don't implement a difference. That way people could choose to write it or not... Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From bleiler at buffalo.edu Thu Aug 8 17:08:14 2013 From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 17:08:14 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <5203A4CC.8050803@fourthworld.com> References: <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <5203A4CC.8050803@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Having made that plea for simplicity in programming, please allow me to complicate this now: :) > > > Taking the idea of scriptObject further, for the rarer-but-not-unthinkable need to know all of the objects in an object's message path, might we consider extending this further to include: > > the effective scriptObjects of > > ...which would return a return-delimited list of all objects in the message path of ? The key to this issue is recognizing the parallel conceptualizations of chained behaviors; as additions to the "owners" script AND/OR as a variation of the message path. I didn't appreciate this at first. It reminds me of the long discussion about groups/backgrounds/shared controls from a while back. So after further reflection, I agree with ScriptObject. I also agree that if we add this extension we should also include some way to get a list of all the controls in the chain. The effective scriptObjects of would be OK. I'm mildly concerned that it's not quite a consistent use of the "effective" modifier in the sense that there is no other use of it that returns a list. The "Effective" modifier returns a single value from a search through an inheritance path. If that minor difference is a problem, maybe another property like "scriptObjectChain" or "scriptObjectPath" would work. Tim Bleiler, Ph.D. Instructional Designer, HSIT University at Buffalo From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 8 17:10:21 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 17:10:21 -0400 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <8D062884AF90EDA-10BC-3131@webmail-m214.sysops.aol.com> References: <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <8D062884AF90EDA-10BC-3131@webmail-m214.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: We also had this debate on several bug reports at quality.runrev.com, so you will find much of this hashed out over there, over several bug reports. Excuse me while I wax extemporaneously for a moment. My fellow LiveCoders, I implore you, to reach within your souls and ask yourselves, are not all commas created equal? Is a naked comma on front of a list somehow more important than the lowly little one on the back? Are you so jaded by the unwashed masses of C# hackers trying to convince you that if your language doesn't have a ++ operator it isn't worthy? No! It is a sophisticated, verbose, beautiful and easy-to-read language that will not allow such abominations as "this me" to exist without a fight. It is a language that has survived almost thirty years and has maintained that pure, amazing quality that is lacking from almost every other language that has evolved over that time - it is not a write-only language. It wants to be read. it wants to be updated and modernized. It doesn't require anywhere near the number of comments or hacks or tweaks, because so much of it is self-explanatory. In light of that, I say to you that it is a language that should not count an empty item on the front of a list while ignoring the one in the back. We are not those people. We are better than that. We are not so steeped in tradition and the foibles of those who came before us that we leave them alone like they are sacred, because the code they wrote on their black-and-white Mac Pluses, when HyperCard came on a stack of 3-1/2" disks, is somehow more important than the code we write now. If someone brand new comes to this list - someone who has never used LiveCode, or Runtime Revolution, or SuperCard, or HyperCard or any of the other children or grandchildren of Bill Adkinson - if someone brand new, who does not value legacy over sanctimony comes to this list, and you explain to them what a container is, what empty is, what an itemDelimiter is, and how these tools laugh in the face of type declarations, and show them ",a", and ask them "How many items does that string contain?", what would they say? If after they answer, and you show them "a," and ask them the same question, what would they answer then? Why is it that we treat the items in our lists like they are schleps in a queue to throw down their hard-earned Benjamins for a Taylor Swift concert? Do we not believe in equality? Do we really believe that "a," and ",a" are different? No. Today I say to you that every item was created equal - even the last one. Our past is imperfect, but our future can be. Why is it that an empty item anywhere in a list matters, unless it is at the end? It does matter. It is significant. It must be counted. For my part, I frequently run into this issue when I am working with databases and LiveCode. "SELECT name, address1, address2" is one example where the developer is begging for trouble, because the last item may very well be empty, and therefore not worthy of counting. Yet that is not nearly as horrible as what would happen if I were to INSERT or UPDATE using a list, either from a dataGrid or a container. The errors returned are an open sore that remind you that not all items are created equal. Not all items are significant. Not all items deserved to be counted. If we are to continue with this deep, age-old injustice, then I say to you that the Scots must fix every other command that might somehow be affected by a blank lasty, and ensure that we are not reminded that trailing blank items even exist. The database functions, when faced with "SELECT name, address1, address2" should return an extra comma on the end of the results when address2 is blank, because even though they do not want to face an empty last item, I must be on the watch for them, lest the "INSERT" that follows breaks my app and leaves me to gnash my teeth on the bitter taste of being so close, and yet so far. So, in closing, I simply ask you to say it with me now: "Every comma is significant, even the last one." On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:54 PM, wrote: > I agree with Jacque's construct. I was thrown,long ago, with the number of > items, say, in: > > > "1,2,3,4," > > > > That last comma should indicate a "placeholder" for a fifth item at the > end of the string, but there are in fact only four. One could say that > since the last comma precedes "empty". The number of commas is not > important, only the number of actual items, empty being much less than zero > or blank or anything with even a tinge of real existence. > > > It cannot even be thought of as a placeholder for some future fifth item. > The last comma is real, but as there is no item following, it is simply > superfluous. > > > > One would only have to worry about this sort of thing if it was desired to > append more items. Then you have to watch out. Appending "5,6,7" is > straightforward with the dangling comma. Appending without it is a > different string entirely. > > > Craig > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: J. Landman Gay > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Thu, Aug 8, 2013 3:34 pm > Subject: Re: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) > > > On 8/8/13 12:45 PM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > > > I think the return (or equally the comma when dealing with items) > > doesn't "belong" to the line that it terminates (as I tend to think of > > it) - or indeed to the line that follows it (as perhaps you do); it is, > > indeed just a delimiter. > > My mental model is different. I do think of the delimiter as "belonging" > to the item it delimits. A return character belongs to the line it > follows. A comma belongs to the item it follows. There is no requirement > that a final delimiter be present, but if it is, it doesn't change the > count. > > When you think of it that way, it all falls into place. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 8 17:10:06 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:10:06 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <22DB9C34-D831-4FEF-BC98-47542220B39B@sweattechnologies.com> References: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> <26327415518.20130808134345@ahsoftware.net> <22DB9C34-D831-4FEF-BC98-47542220B39B@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <28328996728.20130808141006@ahsoftware.net> Monte- Thursday, August 8, 2013, 1:54:30 PM, you wrote: > Hmm... in the effective working screenRects there's no > inheritance, just modification of the result. Ah... OK... off the top of my head I can't remember what "the effective working screenrects" returns. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 17:17:54 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 07:17:54 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <28328996728.20130808141006@ahsoftware.net> References: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> <26327415518.20130808134345@ahsoftware.net> <22DB9C34-D831-4FEF-BC98-47542220B39B@sweattechnologies.com> <28328996728.20130808141006@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On 09/08/2013, at 7:10 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Ah... OK... off the top of my head I can't remember what "the > effective working screenrects" returns. The are of the screen that's usable at the time. -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Aug 8 17:23:04 2013 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 23:23:04 +0200 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: <5203FBA1.5090909@hyperactivesw.com> References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> <5202C7EF.8020102@hyperactivesw.com> <5203FBA1.5090909@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Am 08.08.2013 um 22:12 schrieb J. Landman Gay : > On 8/8/13 2:46 PM, Matthias Rebbe wrote: >> Ray, >> >> i am using AirLaunch and all what i can tell is that it is extreme easy to use! > > Thanks, that's great to hear. > >> The dropbox solution only works if you have an "older" dropbox account which still has the public folder. >> Newer accounts do not have this public folder anymore if i am correctly informed. > > Dropbox now lets you make any of its folder "public" by choosing to share it with everyone. People with newer accounts can just make their own public folder and AirLaunch should work the same way there. Ah, good to know. Matthias > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 17:40:59 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 16:40:59 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <26327415518.20130808134345@ahsoftware.net> References: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> <26327415518.20130808134345@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > The problem is that "me" *is* inherited > in a sense in a behavior script and refers not to the behavior object > but to the root object. > Exactly -- if anything, "effective me" when used in a behavior script should refer to the root object, since (metaphorically) the behavior object "inherits" the identity of the root object. But "me" already refers to the root object. Using "effective" this way is 180 degrees to other uses. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 17:42:33 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 07:42:33 +1000 Subject: Distributing an iOS App for Testing In-Reply-To: References: <17EB8B9A-74BC-4FC8-B3E6-C1B6F5B02F16@sweattechnologies.com> <3258B9C5-C4E6-4C87-A07E-C4331830D8C8@LinkIt.Com> <2492AE3F-5B71-4D16-86FF-2AB42F9DC555@icloud.com> <5202C7EF.8020102@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 09/08/2013, at 4:06 AM, Ray Horsley wrote: > Do you have a trial version of AirLaunch? I've tried wrestling with MergExt which works in conjunction with TestFlight (which is the troublesome part) and I'm having no luck. I'd like to try AirLaunch and it sounds like the right tool since it doesn't depend on TestFlight. For what it's worth AirLaunch won't help you install the app if the devices aren't in the provisioning profile either. Whatever works for you though. Happy to give you a refund if you want to use AirLaunch. Personally I like that TestFlight notifies everyone of the new build, collects device ids for you and even allows you to update the provisioning profile on an app without rebuilding if there's a new device to distribute to. Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 17:54:21 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 16:54:21 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <28328996728.20130808141006@ahsoftware.net> References: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> <26327415518.20130808134345@ahsoftware.net> <22DB9C34-D831-4FEF-BC98-47542220B39B@sweattechnologies.com> <28328996728.20130808141006@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Ah... OK... off the top of my head I can't remember what "the > effective working screenrects" returns. > In case anyone in a position to rewrite it is listening, this sentence needs to be re-written: "The screenRects function returns a return-delimited list of four integers, separated by commas." That doesn't even parse, but if you assume multiple screens it indicates this: 0 0 1440 900,1440 0 2490 1680 To clarify it I'd update both sentences in that section: The screenRect function returns a comma-delimited list of four integers. The screenRects function returns a return-delimited list of comma-delimited lists of four integers. Further, "co-ordinates" generally means a location. "Bounds" would be better. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 8 17:54:26 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:54:26 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> <26327415518.20130808134345@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <144331656118.20130808145426@ahsoftware.net> Geoff- Thursday, August 8, 2013, 2:40:59 PM, you wrote: > Exactly -- if anything, "effective me" when used in a behavior script > should refer to the root object, since (metaphorically) the behavior object > "inherits" the identity of the root object. But "me" already refers to the > root object. Using "effective" this way is 180 degrees to other uses. OK - I thought you were saying something different. Never mind. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 18:01:20 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 17:01:20 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <22DB9C34-D831-4FEF-BC98-47542220B39B@sweattechnologies.com> References: <2E29705D-E183-48E2-9011-7BDC3CDD8FDB@netrin.com> <45269184107.20130807213314@ahsoftware.net> <26327415518.20130808134345@ahsoftware.net> <22DB9C34-D831-4FEF-BC98-47542220B39B@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Hmm... in the effective working screenRects there's no inheritance, just > modification of the result. Fair point -- the word "effective" in all cases is being used in the sense of "actual," but that's a strained usage in the case of mobile devices, especially when you're distinguishing between "working" which means "minus everything the OS takes away on a (nearly) permanent basis" and "effective working" which means "minus everything the OS is taking away right this moment." For that use case "available" seems much more descriptive. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 8 18:28:58 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:28:58 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <969B4DEC-A9F2-4164-A858-CCD0375BBA9F@sweattechnologies.com> References: <969B4DEC-A9F2-4164-A858-CCD0375BBA9F@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <52041BAA.2090707@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > On 09/08/2013, at 6:57 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> To my eye it distinguishes "scriptObject" from "scriptObjects" in >> a useful way, and makes use of the existing "effective" keyword >> to note that it's dealing with a broader scope, often used to >> denote inheritance. > > Hmm.... if there's no difference then I guess it could just be > implemented as the scriptObjects and the effective adjective would > just be ignored as it is with other properties that don't implement > a difference. That way people could choose to write it or not... I'm not married to "effective"; as long as the functionality is there I'll be good with whatever Mark Waddingham thinks is best. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 18:42:46 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 08:42:46 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <52041BAA.2090707@fourthworld.com> References: <969B4DEC-A9F2-4164-A858-CCD0375BBA9F@sweattechnologies.com> <52041BAA.2090707@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 09/08/2013, at 8:28 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I'm not married to "effective"; as long as the functionality is there I'll be good with whatever Mark Waddingham thinks is best. Careful now... you might end up with: the effective this mes ;-) -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 8 18:39:30 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:39:30 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52041E22.9080102@fourthworld.com> That was some damn fine writing, my friend. There's too much code floating around for the delimiter behavior to change, but your most excellent post earned you a dinner next time you're in LA, or at RevLive in San Diego next year. It would be my pleasure. Yep, xTalk is sometimes funky, like the rest of the imperfect world in which it was born. But like any language, it's the community that makes a language great - and I'm glad you're in this one. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys Mike Kerner wrote: > We also had this debate on several bug reports at quality.runrev.com, so > you will find much of this hashed out over there, over several bug > reports. Excuse me while I wax extemporaneously for a moment. > > > My fellow LiveCoders, I implore you, to reach within your souls and ask > yourselves, are not all commas created equal? Is a naked comma on front of > a list somehow more important than the lowly little one on the back? Are > you so jaded by the unwashed masses of C# hackers trying to convince you > that if your language doesn't have a ++ operator it isn't worthy? No! It > is a sophisticated, verbose, beautiful and easy-to-read language that will > not allow such abominations as "this me" to exist without a fight. It is a > language that has survived almost thirty years and has maintained that > pure, amazing quality that is lacking from almost every other language that > has evolved over that time - it is not a write-only language. It wants to > be read. it wants to be updated and modernized. It doesn't require > anywhere near the number of comments or hacks or tweaks, because so much of > it is self-explanatory. > > In light of that, I say to you that it is a language that should not count > an empty item on the front of a list while ignoring the one in the back. > We are not those people. We are better than that. We are not so steeped > in tradition and the foibles of those who came before us that we leave them > alone like they are sacred, because the code they wrote on their > black-and-white Mac Pluses, when HyperCard came on a stack of 3-1/2" disks, > is somehow more important than the code we write now. > > If someone brand new comes to this list - someone who has never used > LiveCode, or Runtime Revolution, or SuperCard, or HyperCard or any of the > other children or grandchildren of Bill Adkinson - if someone brand new, > who does not value legacy over sanctimony comes to this list, and you > explain to them what a container is, what empty is, what an itemDelimiter > is, and how these tools laugh in the face of type declarations, and show > them ",a", and ask them "How many items does that string contain?", what > would they say? If after they answer, and you show them "a," and ask them > the same question, what would they answer then? > > Why is it that we treat the items in our lists like they are schleps in a > queue to throw down their hard-earned Benjamins for a Taylor Swift > concert? Do we not believe in equality? Do we really believe that "a," > and ",a" are different? No. Today I say to you that every item was > created equal - even the last one. Our past is imperfect, but our future > can be. Why is it that an empty item anywhere in a list matters, unless it > is at the end? It does matter. It is significant. It must be counted. > > For my part, I frequently run into this issue when I am working with > databases and LiveCode. "SELECT name, address1, address2" is one example > where the developer is begging for trouble, because the last item may very > well be empty, and therefore not worthy of counting. Yet that is not > nearly as horrible as what would happen if I were to INSERT or UPDATE using > a list, either from a dataGrid or a container. The errors returned are an > open sore that remind you that not all items are created equal. Not all > items are significant. Not all items deserved to be counted. > > If we are to continue with this deep, age-old injustice, then I say to you > that the Scots must fix every other command that might somehow be affected > by a blank lasty, and ensure that we are not reminded that trailing blank > items even exist. The database functions, when faced with "SELECT name, > address1, address2" should return an extra comma on the end of the results > when address2 is blank, because even though they do not want to face an > empty last item, I must be on the watch for them, lest the "INSERT" that > follows breaks my app and leaves me to gnash my teeth on the bitter taste > of being so close, and yet so far. > > > So, in closing, I simply ask you to say it with me now: > > "Every comma is significant, even the last one." > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 8 18:46:07 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:46:07 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > On 09/08/2013, at 8:28 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> I'm not married to "effective"; as long as the functionality is >> there I'll be good with whatever Mark Waddingham thinks is best. > > Careful now... you might end up with: > the effective this mes ;-) I should ammend that: "I'll be good with whatever Mark Waddingham think is best when he's sober." :) At the risk of appearing a sycophant, I've come to trust his judgment on such things. When he's sober, that is. Though sometimes even when he's not. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 19:13:04 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 09:13:04 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> On 09/08/2013, at 8:46 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I should ammend that: "I'll be good with whatever Mark Waddingham think is best when he's sober." > > :) > > At the risk of appearing a sycophant, I've come to trust his judgment on such things. When he's sober, that is. Though sometimes even when he's not. Are you saying that implementing "this me" wasn't one of those times? It was a very clever ploy to force us all to have this discussion I think ;-) -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 8 19:25:47 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 18:25:47 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/8/13 6:13 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Are you saying that implementing "this me" wasn't one of those times? > It was a very clever ploy to force us all to have this discussion I > think ;-) You want to know what's really weird? The more we talk about this, the more sense "this me" makes. Wait. I never said that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Thu Aug 8 20:21:20 2013 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (william humphrey) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 20:21:20 -0400 Subject: odd and even numbers In-Reply-To: References: <520029B5.5070902@tweedly.net> <52003219.9040109@tweedly.net> <3083918845.20130805180528@ahsoftware.net> <12100736049.20130805224546@ahsoftware.net> <008FE16782194B7FAA3121519B72C7A3@PAULD> <4102421089.20130805231351@ahsoftware.net> <736FBBC8A0A34FF588DC485F7F3A2921@PAULD> Message-ID: I only said it was weird because the result was odd. Thanks everyone for your help, as always, and it's not my fault this thread degenerated into a whatever that is. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 8 20:30:31 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 20:30:31 -0400 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <52041E22.9080102@fourthworld.com> References: <52041E22.9080102@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I know I'm stuck with it, but I wish there was a preference that I could tick. Sometimes I even wish I was actually good at C so I could take the source and fix it. No, wait. Maybe I can fund forking it just for the sake of fixing that one thing. On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > That was some damn fine writing, my friend. > > There's too much code floating around for the delimiter behavior to > change, but your most excellent post earned you a dinner next time you're > in LA, or at RevLive in San Diego next year. It would be my pleasure. > > Yep, xTalk is sometimes funky, like the rest of the imperfect world in > which it was born. > > But like any language, it's the community that makes a language great - > and I'm glad you're in this one. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys > > > Mike Kerner wrote: > > We also had this debate on several bug reports at quality.runrev.com, so >> you will find much of this hashed out over there, over several bug >> reports. Excuse me while I wax extemporaneously for a moment. >> >> >> My fellow LiveCoders, I implore you, to reach within your souls and ask >> yourselves, are not all commas created equal? Is a naked comma on front >> of >> a list somehow more important than the lowly little one on the back? Are >> you so jaded by the unwashed masses of C# hackers trying to convince you >> that if your language doesn't have a ++ operator it isn't worthy? No! It >> is a sophisticated, verbose, beautiful and easy-to-read language that will >> not allow such abominations as "this me" to exist without a fight. It is >> a >> language that has survived almost thirty years and has maintained that >> pure, amazing quality that is lacking from almost every other language >> that >> has evolved over that time - it is not a write-only language. It wants to >> be read. it wants to be updated and modernized. It doesn't require >> anywhere near the number of comments or hacks or tweaks, because so much >> of >> it is self-explanatory. >> >> In light of that, I say to you that it is a language that should not count >> an empty item on the front of a list while ignoring the one in the back. >> We are not those people. We are better than that. We are not so steeped >> in tradition and the foibles of those who came before us that we leave >> them >> alone like they are sacred, because the code they wrote on their >> black-and-white Mac Pluses, when HyperCard came on a stack of 3-1/2" >> disks, >> is somehow more important than the code we write now. >> >> If someone brand new comes to this list - someone who has never used >> LiveCode, or Runtime Revolution, or SuperCard, or HyperCard or any of the >> other children or grandchildren of Bill Adkinson - if someone brand new, >> who does not value legacy over sanctimony comes to this list, and you >> explain to them what a container is, what empty is, what an itemDelimiter >> is, and how these tools laugh in the face of type declarations, and show >> them ",a", and ask them "How many items does that string contain?", what >> would they say? If after they answer, and you show them "a," and ask them >> the same question, what would they answer then? >> >> Why is it that we treat the items in our lists like they are schleps in a >> queue to throw down their hard-earned Benjamins for a Taylor Swift >> concert? Do we not believe in equality? Do we really believe that "a," >> and ",a" are different? No. Today I say to you that every item was >> created equal - even the last one. Our past is imperfect, but our future >> can be. Why is it that an empty item anywhere in a list matters, unless >> it >> is at the end? It does matter. It is significant. It must be counted. >> >> For my part, I frequently run into this issue when I am working with >> databases and LiveCode. "SELECT name, address1, address2" is one example >> where the developer is begging for trouble, because the last item may very >> well be empty, and therefore not worthy of counting. Yet that is not >> nearly as horrible as what would happen if I were to INSERT or UPDATE >> using >> a list, either from a dataGrid or a container. The errors returned are an >> open sore that remind you that not all items are created equal. Not all >> items are significant. Not all items deserved to be counted. >> >> If we are to continue with this deep, age-old injustice, then I say to you >> that the Scots must fix every other command that might somehow be affected >> by a blank lasty, and ensure that we are not reminded that trailing blank >> items even exist. The database functions, when faced with "SELECT name, >> address1, address2" should return an extra comma on the end of the results >> when address2 is blank, because even though they do not want to face an >> empty last item, I must be on the watch for them, lest the "INSERT" that >> follows breaks my app and leaves me to gnash my teeth on the bitter taste >> of being so close, and yet so far. >> >> >> So, in closing, I simply ask you to say it with me now: >> >> "Every comma is significant, even the last one." >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 8 20:33:20 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 20:33:20 -0400 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <52041E22.9080102@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Too badd I mizspeld "Atkinson". OMG #FAIL On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I know I'm stuck with it, but I wish there was a preference that I could > tick. Sometimes I even wish I was actually good at C so I could take the > source and fix it. > > No, wait. Maybe I can fund forking it just for the sake of fixing that > one thing. > > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> That was some damn fine writing, my friend. >> >> There's too much code floating around for the delimiter behavior to >> change, but your most excellent post earned you a dinner next time you're >> in LA, or at RevLive in San Diego next year. It would be my pleasure. >> >> Yep, xTalk is sometimes funky, like the rest of the imperfect world in >> which it was born. >> >> But like any language, it's the community that makes a language great - >> and I'm glad you're in this one. >> >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World >> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com >> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com >> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys >> >> >> Mike Kerner wrote: >> >> We also had this debate on several bug reports at quality.runrev.com, so >>> you will find much of this hashed out over there, over several bug >>> reports. Excuse me while I wax extemporaneously for a moment. >>> >>> >>> My fellow LiveCoders, I implore you, to reach within your souls and ask >>> yourselves, are not all commas created equal? Is a naked comma on front >>> of >>> a list somehow more important than the lowly little one on the back? Are >>> you so jaded by the unwashed masses of C# hackers trying to convince you >>> that if your language doesn't have a ++ operator it isn't worthy? No! >>> It >>> is a sophisticated, verbose, beautiful and easy-to-read language that >>> will >>> not allow such abominations as "this me" to exist without a fight. It >>> is a >>> language that has survived almost thirty years and has maintained that >>> pure, amazing quality that is lacking from almost every other language >>> that >>> has evolved over that time - it is not a write-only language. It wants >>> to >>> be read. it wants to be updated and modernized. It doesn't require >>> anywhere near the number of comments or hacks or tweaks, because so much >>> of >>> it is self-explanatory. >>> >>> In light of that, I say to you that it is a language that should not >>> count >>> an empty item on the front of a list while ignoring the one in the back. >>> We are not those people. We are better than that. We are not so steeped >>> in tradition and the foibles of those who came before us that we leave >>> them >>> alone like they are sacred, because the code they wrote on their >>> black-and-white Mac Pluses, when HyperCard came on a stack of 3-1/2" >>> disks, >>> is somehow more important than the code we write now. >>> >>> If someone brand new comes to this list - someone who has never used >>> LiveCode, or Runtime Revolution, or SuperCard, or HyperCard or any of the >>> other children or grandchildren of Bill Adkinson - if someone brand new, >>> who does not value legacy over sanctimony comes to this list, and you >>> explain to them what a container is, what empty is, what an itemDelimiter >>> is, and how these tools laugh in the face of type declarations, and show >>> them ",a", and ask them "How many items does that string contain?", what >>> would they say? If after they answer, and you show them "a," and ask >>> them >>> the same question, what would they answer then? >>> >>> Why is it that we treat the items in our lists like they are schleps in a >>> queue to throw down their hard-earned Benjamins for a Taylor Swift >>> concert? Do we not believe in equality? Do we really believe that "a," >>> and ",a" are different? No. Today I say to you that every item was >>> created equal - even the last one. Our past is imperfect, but our future >>> can be. Why is it that an empty item anywhere in a list matters, unless >>> it >>> is at the end? It does matter. It is significant. It must be counted. >>> >>> For my part, I frequently run into this issue when I am working with >>> databases and LiveCode. "SELECT name, address1, address2" is one example >>> where the developer is begging for trouble, because the last item may >>> very >>> well be empty, and therefore not worthy of counting. Yet that is not >>> nearly as horrible as what would happen if I were to INSERT or UPDATE >>> using >>> a list, either from a dataGrid or a container. The errors returned are >>> an >>> open sore that remind you that not all items are created equal. Not all >>> items are significant. Not all items deserved to be counted. >>> >>> If we are to continue with this deep, age-old injustice, then I say to >>> you >>> that the Scots must fix every other command that might somehow be >>> affected >>> by a blank lasty, and ensure that we are not reminded that trailing blank >>> items even exist. The database functions, when faced with "SELECT name, >>> address1, address2" should return an extra comma on the end of the >>> results >>> when address2 is blank, because even though they do not want to face an >>> empty last item, I must be on the watch for them, lest the "INSERT" that >>> follows breaks my app and leaves me to gnash my teeth on the bitter taste >>> of being so close, and yet so far. >>> >>> >>> So, in closing, I simply ask you to say it with me now: >>> >>> "Every comma is significant, even the last one." >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 8 20:45:55 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:45:55 +1000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 09/08/2013, at 9:25 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > You want to know what's really weird? The more we talk about this, the more sense "this me" makes. Wait. I never said that. Aha... so it was a cunning ploy to get us all discussing it so much therefore confuse us into thinking this me made sense. How does he fit that brain in his normal size head? ;-) -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 8 20:33:20 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 20:33:20 -0400 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <52041E22.9080102@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Too badd I mizspeld "Atkinson". OMG #FAIL On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I know I'm stuck with it, but I wish there was a preference that I could > tick. Sometimes I even wish I was actually good at C so I could take the > source and fix it. > > No, wait. Maybe I can fund forking it just for the sake of fixing that > one thing. > > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> That was some damn fine writing, my friend. >> >> There's too much code floating around for the delimiter behavior to >> change, but your most excellent post earned you a dinner next time you're >> in LA, or at RevLive in San Diego next year. It would be my pleasure. >> >> Yep, xTalk is sometimes funky, like the rest of the imperfect world in >> which it was born. >> >> But like any language, it's the community that makes a language great - >> and I'm glad you're in this one. >> >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World >> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com >> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com >> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys >> >> >> Mike Kerner wrote: >> >> We also had this debate on several bug reports at quality.runrev.com, so >>> you will find much of this hashed out over there, over several bug >>> reports. Excuse me while I wax extemporaneously for a moment. >>> >>> >>> My fellow LiveCoders, I implore you, to reach within your souls and ask >>> yourselves, are not all commas created equal? Is a naked comma on front >>> of >>> a list somehow more important than the lowly little one on the back? Are >>> you so jaded by the unwashed masses of C# hackers trying to convince you >>> that if your language doesn't have a ++ operator it isn't worthy? No! >>> It >>> is a sophisticated, verbose, beautiful and easy-to-read language that >>> will >>> not allow such abominations as "this me" to exist without a fight. It >>> is a >>> language that has survived almost thirty years and has maintained that >>> pure, amazing quality that is lacking from almost every other language >>> that >>> has evolved over that time - it is not a write-only language. It wants >>> to >>> be read. it wants to be updated and modernized. It doesn't require >>> anywhere near the number of comments or hacks or tweaks, because so much >>> of >>> it is self-explanatory. >>> >>> In light of that, I say to you that it is a language that should not >>> count >>> an empty item on the front of a list while ignoring the one in the back. >>> We are not those people. We are better than that. We are not so steeped >>> in tradition and the foibles of those who came before us that we leave >>> them >>> alone like they are sacred, because the code they wrote on their >>> black-and-white Mac Pluses, when HyperCard came on a stack of 3-1/2" >>> disks, >>> is somehow more important than the code we write now. >>> >>> If someone brand new comes to this list - someone who has never used >>> LiveCode, or Runtime Revolution, or SuperCard, or HyperCard or any of the >>> other children or grandchildren of Bill Adkinson - if someone brand new, >>> who does not value legacy over sanctimony comes to this list, and you >>> explain to them what a container is, what empty is, what an itemDelimiter >>> is, and how these tools laugh in the face of type declarations, and show >>> them ",a", and ask them "How many items does that string contain?", what >>> would they say? If after they answer, and you show them "a," and ask >>> them >>> the same question, what would they answer then? >>> >>> Why is it that we treat the items in our lists like they are schleps in a >>> queue to throw down their hard-earned Benjamins for a Taylor Swift >>> concert? Do we not believe in equality? Do we really believe that "a," >>> and ",a" are different? No. Today I say to you that every item was >>> created equal - even the last one. Our past is imperfect, but our future >>> can be. Why is it that an empty item anywhere in a list matters, unless >>> it >>> is at the end? It does matter. It is significant. It must be counted. >>> >>> For my part, I frequently run into this issue when I am working with >>> databases and LiveCode. "SELECT name, address1, address2" is one example >>> where the developer is begging for trouble, because the last item may >>> very >>> well be empty, and therefore not worthy of counting. Yet that is not >>> nearly as horrible as what would happen if I were to INSERT or UPDATE >>> using >>> a list, either from a dataGrid or a container. The errors returned are >>> an >>> open sore that remind you that not all items are created equal. Not all >>> items are significant. Not all items deserved to be counted. >>> >>> If we are to continue with this deep, age-old injustice, then I say to >>> you >>> that the Scots must fix every other command that might somehow be >>> affected >>> by a blank lasty, and ensure that we are not reminded that trailing blank >>> items even exist. The database functions, when faced with "SELECT name, >>> address1, address2" should return an extra comma on the end of the >>> results >>> when address2 is blank, because even though they do not want to face an >>> empty last item, I must be on the watch for them, lest the "INSERT" that >>> follows breaks my app and leaves me to gnash my teeth on the bitter taste >>> of being so close, and yet so far. >>> >>> >>> So, in closing, I simply ask you to say it with me now: >>> >>> "Every comma is significant, even the last one." >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From admin at FlexibleLearning.com Thu Aug 8 23:09:46 2013 From: admin at FlexibleLearning.com (FlexibleLearning.com) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 04:09:46 +0100 Subject: Getting the Public IP address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark/Matthias/Devin Thank you for all your insights and suggestions. The public IP address is only needed on first-launch for a best-guess geographic location. Thereafter, the User's own text is used. Using query.us/iptest.php is probably the most appropriate at this time and seems to do exactly what is needed. Hugh Senior FLCo From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 02:09:19 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 01:09:19 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <52041E22.9080102@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <973E52C7-F753-4869-A690-C5B6253EF63E@gmail.com> This seems like something the new language parser could fix for you. Sent from my iPad On Aug 8, 2013, at 7:30 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I know I'm stuck with it, but I wish there was a preference that I could > tick. From simon at asato-media.com Fri Aug 9 03:18:25 2013 From: simon at asato-media.com (As_Simon) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 00:18:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com> Alejandro Tejada wrote > Does exists plans to create LiveCode Certifications? I hope not... I test very poorly, always have. Simon -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Livecode-Developer-Certifications-tp4668510p4668553.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dave at applicationinsight.com Fri Aug 9 04:18:03 2013 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 01:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: pancake or crepe? Message-ID: <1376036283512-4668554.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi all, pancake (the server) is down and so are all my websites :( Normally RunRev are pretty quick at getting things going again - so here's hoping! Dave -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/pancake-or-crepe-tp4668554.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From sc at sahores-conseil.com Fri Aug 9 04:33:58 2013 From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:33:58 +0200 Subject: pancake or crepe? In-Reply-To: <1376036283512-4668554.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1376036283512-4668554.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <42935317-CA11-40A6-A6C1-1662D47E7FA6@sahores-conseil.com> Works fine there. Le 9 ao?t 2013 ? 10:18, Dave Kilroy a ?crit : > Hi all, pancake (the server) is down and so are all my websites :( > > Normally RunRev are pretty quick at getting things going again - so here's > hoping! > > Dave > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/pancake-or-crepe-tp4668554.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Pierre Sahores mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 www.sahores-conseil.com From sc at sahores-conseil.com Fri Aug 9 04:42:34 2013 From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:42:34 +0200 Subject: Urgent: pancake or crepe? In-Reply-To: <1376036283512-4668554.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1376036283512-4668554.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <33CFCA0D-6346-4984-886C-0B6C410DEEF7@sahores-conseil.com> As pointed out, seems to be a problem indeed : One of my very lightweight pancake's hosted site responds while the other ones don't? Bandwith of the Static IP box ? Le 9 ao?t 2013 ? 10:18, Dave Kilroy a ?crit : > Hi all, pancake (the server) is down and so are all my websites :( > > Normally RunRev are pretty quick at getting things going again - so here's > hoping! > > Dave > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/pancake-or-crepe-tp4668554.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Pierre Sahores mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 www.sahores-conseil.com From igor at semperuna.com Fri Aug 9 04:54:50 2013 From: igor at semperuna.com (Igor de Oliveira Couto) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 18:54:50 +1000 Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <859CB1EA-32EA-46C1-B4EF-DEF1E93C93E4@semperuna.com> On 09/08/2013, at 5:19 AM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Does exists plans to create LiveCode Certifications? It seems that RunRev is currently running a training camp, at the end of which attendees get a 'certificate'. I must admit, I did not pay too much attention to it as it seemed to be geared to kids and first-timers. Professional-level certification sounds like a good idea to me. Could be a good source of revenue for RunRev, and might be beneficial for business customers who may want to find an 'expert', without having to hang out in the mailing list or the forums to find out 'who's who'! Kindest regards to all, -- Igor Couto Sydney, Australia From dave at applicationinsight.com Fri Aug 9 05:04:42 2013 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 02:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Urgent: pancake or crepe? In-Reply-To: <33CFCA0D-6346-4984-886C-0B6C410DEEF7@sahores-conseil.com> References: <1376036283512-4668554.post@n4.nabble.com> <33CFCA0D-6346-4984-886C-0B6C410DEEF7@sahores-conseil.com> Message-ID: <1376039082356-4668558.post@n4.nabble.com> All of my sites fell over, I don't have static IP on any of them (if that is what you mean?) I emailed support via the on-rev website - don't know if they are responding or not as my email is also down! Dave Pierre Sahores-2 wrote > One of my very lightweight pancake's hosted site responds while the other > ones don't? > > Bandwith of the Static IP box ? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/pancake-or-crepe-tp4668554p4668558.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From sc at sahores-conseil.com Fri Aug 9 05:19:14 2013 From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 11:19:14 +0200 Subject: Urgent: pancake or crepe? In-Reply-To: <1376039082356-4668558.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1376036283512-4668554.post@n4.nabble.com> <33CFCA0D-6346-4984-886C-0B6C410DEEF7@sahores-conseil.com> <1376039082356-4668558.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Dave, The on-rev servers admins are always very responsive. I expect that they should solve this along the fore coming hour. Best, Le 9 ao?t 2013 ? 11:04, Dave Kilroy a ?crit : > All of my sites fell over, I don't have static IP on any of them (if that is > what you mean?) > > I emailed support via the on-rev website - don't know if they are responding > or not as my email is also down! > > Dave > > > Pierre Sahores-2 wrote >> One of my very lightweight pancake's hosted site responds while the other >> ones don't? >> >> Bandwith of the Static IP box ? -- Pierre Sahores mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 www.sahores-conseil.com From dave at applicationinsight.com Fri Aug 9 05:25:27 2013 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 02:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Urgent: pancake or crepe? In-Reply-To: References: <1376036283512-4668554.post@n4.nabble.com> <33CFCA0D-6346-4984-886C-0B6C410DEEF7@sahores-conseil.com> <1376039082356-4668558.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1376040327667-4668560.post@n4.nabble.com> Pierre yes I agree they are stars - a few weeks ago on a Friday evening I noticed the database server was down, emailed RunRev and David Williams emailed me back within two minutes apologising and saying the problem had been fixed (which it had been) - he either was working at the office at that late hour or broke off his relaxing time to respond - truly excellent! Pierre Sahores-2 wrote > The on-rev servers admins are always very responsive. I expect that they > should solve this along the fore coming hour. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/pancake-or-crepe-tp4668554p4668560.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dave at applicationinsight.com Fri Aug 9 06:01:52 2013 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 03:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Urgent: pancake or crepe? In-Reply-To: <1376040327667-4668560.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1376036283512-4668554.post@n4.nabble.com> <33CFCA0D-6346-4984-886C-0B6C410DEEF7@sahores-conseil.com> <1376039082356-4668558.post@n4.nabble.com> <1376040327667-4668560.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1376042512213-4668561.post@n4.nabble.com> Pancake is back up :) -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/pancake-or-crepe-tp4668554p4668561.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri Aug 9 08:35:23 2013 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 08:35:23 -0400 Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4FDE30C0-F9AD-47E3-8633-006124A82677@all-auctions.com> Hi Simon, I found that certifications in general are only a way for computer education companies to make a big buck. In my experience, I found many people who were certified in a language were also terrible at what they were doing. I found many people who couldn't afford the time or money to get certification were the computer language wizards, and they were passed over for the job in favor of some guy who got the certification and was terrible at his job. It's not a good idea to go down that road. Those same computer educational companies ended up going out of business because people discovered certification was basically a scam to make money. Just my 2 cents. Cheers, Rick On Aug 9, 2013, at 3:18 AM, As_Simon wrote: > Alejandro Tejada wrote >> Does exists plans to create LiveCode Certifications? > > I hope not... > I test very poorly, always have. > > Simon > > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 11:07:28 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:07:28 -0500 Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: <4FDE30C0-F9AD-47E3-8633-006124A82677@all-auctions.com> References: <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com> <4FDE30C0-F9AD-47E3-8633-006124A82677@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: If I want to know if someone can code I'd ask them to solve a few http://projecteuler.net/ problems. gc On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 7:35 AM, Rick Harrison wrote: > Hi Simon, > > I found that certifications in general are > only a way for computer education companies > to make a big buck. In my experience, I found > many people who were certified in a language > were also terrible at what they were doing. > > I found many people who couldn't afford the > time or money to get certification were the > computer language wizards, and they were > passed over for the job in favor of some guy > who got the certification and was terrible at > his job. > > It's not a good idea to go down that road. > Those same computer educational companies > ended up going out of business because people > discovered certification was basically a scam to > make money. > > Just my 2 cents. > > Cheers, > > Rick > > On Aug 9, 2013, at 3:18 AM, As_Simon wrote: > > > Alejandro Tejada wrote > >> Does exists plans to create LiveCode Certifications? > > > > I hope not... > > I test very poorly, always have. > > > > Simon > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Fri Aug 9 11:37:00 2013 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 08:37:00 -0700 Subject: LiveCode on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <5203D0C4.8050200@fourthworld.com> References: <5203D0C4.8050200@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > Also, LinkedIn supports discussion groups, and there are > several there related to LiveCode. Just search the groups > there for LiveCode and you'll find them, including a few > regional groups like the one for Portland and another for SoCal. Im surprised nobody responded. Yes, there is a group here: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/LiveCode-Developers-50811?trk=myg_ugrp_ovr If you'd like to have a sub-group listed on the group above, let me know and Ill set it up for you. I haven't seen LiveCode show up yet as a selection for approval. Is there a way to 'force' approve it? Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Aug 9 11:38:02 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 15:38:02 +0000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2013, at 5:25 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/8/13 6:13 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> Are you saying that implementing "this me" wasn't one of those times? >> It was a very clever ploy to force us all to have this discussion I >> think ;-) > > You want to know what's really weird? The more we talk about this, the more sense "this me" makes. Wait. I never said that. Well, this me thinks this me is weird. But that's just me. This one, not another one. Devin Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University http://university.livecode.com From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 9 11:50:11 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 17:50:11 +0200 Subject: Programing LiveCode... - A few answers Message-ID: <52050FB3.4080904@economy-x-talk.com> Hi, Economy-x-Talk asked everyone who purchased the book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner", or otherwise showed an interest in the book, to fill out a questionnaire. Almost 150 people, including almost everyone who bought the book, has responded to this request. Thank you very much for your co-operation! Everyone who entered an e-mail address at the end of the survey, has already received a detailed report. Because there were a few discussions on the mailing list, mostly about the lack of an e-book, I would like to give a brief overview of the survey results. We asked many questions and now it is time to give you some answers. The goal of the survey was to get information about potential e-book sales, the selling price we chose, and the quality of the book. The answers led us to the following conclusions. - People who have bought the book clearly have a more positive perception of the book than those who didn't buy it. - People appreciate e-books, but their decision to buy the book is mainly affected by their interest in LiveCode or their wish to learn programming. Whether the book is in electronic format or not seems to be of much less importance to the average buyer. - The price seems to be about right, although many people think that the book is slightly on the expensive side. Generally, people are not willing to pay the same price for an e-book or to pay extra if an e-book were included with the physical book. - We don't think that a reduction of the price by 2 to 4 euro will increase sales by a considerable amount, because a) people who didn't buy the book (yet) don't want to pay for extras and b) either have no opinion about prices or c) want to pay a price below our break-even price. Therefore, a reasonable price reduction won't convince more people to buy the book. - Most people are happy with the content and the appearance of the book. It is striking how many people report not to have an opinion about the format (size, appearance, cover, etc.). What do we do with these results? We are investigating our options. First, we need to work on people's perceptions. You can help with this, by telling other people why the book was useful for you. We?re thinking about an entirely new product, which would be more suitable to those who didn't buy the book (yet). We have already made it easier to get discounts on bulk orders, which now have to be of a minimum size of 10 copies. Btw if you don't agree with the results, you can fill out the questionnaire yourself at http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ If you want to discuss the book, you can do so at http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/ I hope this makes a few things clear. Have a nice weekend and if you received the book this week, enjoy reading. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ From userev at canelasoftware.com Fri Aug 9 12:04:34 2013 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 09:04:34 -0700 Subject: LiveCode on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <5203D0C4.8050200@fourthworld.com> References: <5203D0C4.8050200@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <432EC11D-CC95-48F5-90BA-8830BF41B23C@canelasoftware.com> On Aug 8, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > If you keep this in mind when browsing LinkedIn, hopefully we can raise awareness of LiveCode in that increasingly useful professional venue. > > Also, LinkedIn supports discussion groups, and there are several there related to LiveCode. Just search the groups there for LiveCode and you'll find them, including a few regional groups like the one for Portland and another for SoCal. I added LiveCode as something I know about. I also belong to the discussion group on LC in LinkedIn. -Mark From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Fri Aug 9 13:07:01 2013 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 18:07:01 +0100 Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: References: , <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com>, <4FDE30C0-F9AD-47E3-8633-006124A82677@all-auctions.com>, Message-ID: Will I get a certificate ? > From: gcanyon at gmail.com > Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:07:28 -0500 > Subject: Re: Livecode Developer Certifications > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > If I want to know if someone can code I'd ask them to solve a few > http://projecteuler.net/ problems. > > gc > > > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 7:35 AM, Rick Harrison wrote: > > > Hi Simon, > > > > I found that certifications in general are > > only a way for computer education companies > > to make a big buck. In my experience, I found > > many people who were certified in a language > > were also terrible at what they were doing. > > > > I found many people who couldn't afford the > > time or money to get certification were the > > computer language wizards, and they were > > passed over for the job in favor of some guy > > who got the certification and was terrible at > > his job. > > > > It's not a good idea to go down that road. > > Those same computer educational companies > > ended up going out of business because people > > discovered certification was basically a scam to > > make money. > > > > Just my 2 cents. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Rick > > > > On Aug 9, 2013, at 3:18 AM, As_Simon wrote: > > > > > Alejandro Tejada wrote > > >> Does exists plans to create LiveCode Certifications? > > > > > > I hope not... > > > I test very poorly, always have. > > > > > > Simon > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Aug 9 13:19:54 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 13:19:54 -0400 Subject: Using a HDMI TV stick to test LiveCode apps Message-ID: I have been using one of these HDMI_Media_Sticks to add smartness to my unSmart TV for about 6 months. The thing works great for Netflix, TWiT, YouTube, Pandora, Internet Radio, etc. Having just realized that my monitor has an unused HDMI port, I'm thinking another great use for this gadget would/could be LiveCode testing. It has USB for connecting to your computer, SDcard slot for storage, Bluetooth to add a mouse, or USB mouse, and Wi-Fi(b/g/n). So, in theory it should be seen by LC as a tablet. So, by clicking "Test" in LC, and switching to the the source on the monitor, I can test apps targeted at android-based devices (single-touch, or click, or click & drag operations). Basically any Android app that doesn't need multi-touch should be fine. The speed is far better than the Android emulator, btw. ~Roger From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 14:02:39 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 13:02:39 -0500 Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: References: <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com> <4FDE30C0-F9AD-47E3-8633-006124A82677@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: Project Euler doesn't do certificates, but if you want to work through some of them I'd be happy to draw something up and send you a PDF ;-) Seriously -- I've solved about 80 of them, and although they start fairly simple, they are a serious challenge after the first handful. The site doesn't cover all use cases by any stretch, but there's no doubt that it's a serious test. I had to write my own large integer arithmetic routines in LC to solve some that involve 20+ digit numbers. gc On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 12:07 PM, John Dixon wrote: > Will I get a certificate ? > > > From: gcanyon at gmail.com > > Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:07:28 -0500 > > Subject: Re: Livecode Developer Certifications > > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > If I want to know if someone can code I'd ask them to solve a few > > http://projecteuler.net/ problems. > > > > gc > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 7:35 AM, Rick Harrison >wrote: > > > > > Hi Simon, > > > > > > I found that certifications in general are > > > only a way for computer education companies > > > to make a big buck. In my experience, I found > > > many people who were certified in a language > > > were also terrible at what they were doing. > > > > > > I found many people who couldn't afford the > > > time or money to get certification were the > > > computer language wizards, and they were > > > passed over for the job in favor of some guy > > > who got the certification and was terrible at > > > his job. > > > > > > It's not a good idea to go down that road. > > > Those same computer educational companies > > > ended up going out of business because people > > > discovered certification was basically a scam to > > > make money. > > > > > > Just my 2 cents. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > On Aug 9, 2013, at 3:18 AM, As_Simon wrote: > > > > > > > Alejandro Tejada wrote > > > >> Does exists plans to create LiveCode Certifications? > > > > > > > > I hope not... > > > > I test very poorly, always have. > > > > > > > > Simon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 14:06:30 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 13:06:30 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > > On Aug 8, 2013, at 5:25 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > > On 8/8/13 6:13 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > >> Are you saying that implementing "this me" wasn't one of those times? > >> It was a very clever ploy to force us all to have this discussion I > >> think ;-) > > > > You want to know what's really weird? The more we talk about this, the > more sense "this me" makes. Wait. I never said that. > > Well, this me thinks this me is weird. But that's just me. This one, not > another one. > > Devin > Well, if you (Devin) had Jacque set as your behavior, then for you, "me" would think "this me" is weird syntax, but "this me" would think "this me" makes sense. Actually, that doesn't follow the rules of the language. I worked hard on it, so I'll send it anyway. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 9 14:22:46 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 13:22:46 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/9/13 1:06 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > >> >> On Aug 8, 2013, at 5:25 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> On 8/8/13 6:13 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: >>> >>>> Are you saying that implementing "this me" wasn't one of those times? >>>> It was a very clever ploy to force us all to have this discussion I >>>> think ;-) >>> >>> You want to know what's really weird? The more we talk about this, the >> more sense "this me" makes. Wait. I never said that. >> >> Well, this me thinks this me is weird. But that's just me. This one, not >> another one. >> >> Devin >> > > Well, if you (Devin) had Jacque set as your behavior, then for you, "me" > would think "this me" is weird syntax, but "this me" would think "this me" > makes sense. Actually, that doesn't follow the rules of the language. I > worked hard on it, so I'll send it anyway. I want to be his behavior. Then I can sit here inert, while Devin does all my work for this me. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Aug 9 14:41:43 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 18:41:43 +0000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> On Aug 9, 2013, at 12:22 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/9/13 1:06 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Devin Asay wrote: >> >>> >>> On Aug 8, 2013, at 5:25 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> >>>> On 8/8/13 6:13 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: >>>> >>>>> Are you saying that implementing "this me" wasn't one of those times? >>>>> It was a very clever ploy to force us all to have this discussion I >>>>> think ;-) >>>> >>>> You want to know what's really weird? The more we talk about this, the >>> more sense "this me" makes. Wait. I never said that. >>> >>> Well, this me thinks this me is weird. But that's just me. This one, not >>> another one. >>> >>> Devin >>> >> >> Well, if you (Devin) had Jacque set as your behavior, then for you, "me" >> would think "this me" is weird syntax, but "this me" would think "this me" >> makes sense. Actually, that doesn't follow the rules of the language. I >> worked hard on it, so I'll send it anyway. > > I want to be his behavior. Then I can sit here inert, while Devin does all my work for this me. No, the behavior does all the work. set the this me of me to the this me of Jacque D Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From capellan2000 at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 14:44:09 2013 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 14:44:09 -0400 Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications Message-ID: Hi All, Actually, employers will get the most benefits of LiveCode Certifications. It's a fact, but most of us, who use LiveCode daily, for many years, DO NOT USE ALL the features that LiveCode provides. For example: After reading the roadmap, I foresee that in a near future, a native OpenGL rendering object will be available. This native OpenGL rendering object will open a whole new world for applications that could make use of this powerful graphics presentation layer. And you could say exactly the same, about sockets, multimedia, databases, externals... My vote is "Yes" for Certifications of Proficiency for LiveCode. Have a nice weekend. Al on Fri, 9 Aug 2013 Igor de Oliveira Couto wrote > It seems that RunRev is currently running a training camp, > at the end of which attendees get a 'certificate'. I must admit, > I did not pay too much attention to it as it seemed to be > geared to kids and first-timers. > > Professional-level certification sounds like a good idea to me. > Could be a good source of revenue for RunRev, and might be > beneficial for business customers who may want to find an 'expert', > without having to hang out in the mailing list or the forums > to find out 'who's who'! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 9 14:49:25 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 13:49:25 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> Message-ID: <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/9/13 1:41 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > > On Aug 9, 2013, at 12:22 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 8/9/13 1:06 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >>> On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Devin Asay wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2013, at 5:25 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 8/8/13 6:13 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Are you saying that implementing "this me" wasn't one of those times? >>>>>> It was a very clever ploy to force us all to have this discussion I >>>>>> think ;-) >>>>> >>>>> You want to know what's really weird? The more we talk about this, the >>>> more sense "this me" makes. Wait. I never said that. >>>> >>>> Well, this me thinks this me is weird. But that's just me. This one, not >>>> another one. >>>> >>>> Devin >>>> >>> >>> Well, if you (Devin) had Jacque set as your behavior, then for you, "me" >>> would think "this me" is weird syntax, but "this me" would think "this me" >>> makes sense. Actually, that doesn't follow the rules of the language. I >>> worked hard on it, so I'll send it anyway. >> >> I want to be his behavior. Then I can sit here inert, while Devin does all my work for this me. > > No, the behavior does all the work. > > set the this me of me to the this me of Jacque Oh right. This me got confused. We can't have this me doing all the work. I was telling The Husband about the naming debate and he suggested that since we're talking about parent scripts, we replace "this me" with "mama me". -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 9 15:11:34 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 15:11:34 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: at least no one has suggested that me thisAWayThatAWay me meme you miniMe or, my all time favorite doReMi On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 2:49 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/9/13 1:41 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > >> >> On Aug 9, 2013, at 12:22 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> On 8/9/13 1:06 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Devin Asay wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 8, 2013, at 5:25 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 8/8/13 6:13 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you saying that implementing "this me" wasn't one of those times? >>>>>>> It was a very clever ploy to force us all to have this discussion I >>>>>>> think ;-) >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You want to know what's really weird? The more we talk about this, the >>>>>> >>>>> more sense "this me" makes. Wait. I never said that. >>>>> >>>>> Well, this me thinks this me is weird. But that's just me. This one, >>>>> not >>>>> another one. >>>>> >>>>> Devin >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Well, if you (Devin) had Jacque set as your behavior, then for you, "me" >>>> would think "this me" is weird syntax, but "this me" would think "this >>>> me" >>>> makes sense. Actually, that doesn't follow the rules of the language. I >>>> worked hard on it, so I'll send it anyway. >>>> >>> >>> I want to be his behavior. Then I can sit here inert, while Devin does >>> all my work for this me. >>> >> >> No, the behavior does all the work. >> >> set the this me of me to the this me of Jacque >> > > Oh right. This me got confused. We can't have this me doing all the work. > > I was telling The Husband about the naming debate and he suggested that > since we're talking about parent scripts, we replace "this me" with "mama > me". > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Aug 9 15:13:23 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 19:13:23 +0000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <186BF22A-D02C-42A6-B1A6-5143C70D5288@byu.edu> On Aug 9, 2013, at 12:49 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/9/13 1:41 PM, Devin Asay wrote: >> >> On Aug 9, 2013, at 12:22 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> On 8/9/13 1:06 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >>>> On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Devin Asay wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 8, 2013, at 5:25 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/8/13 6:13 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Are you saying that implementing "this me" wasn't one of those times? >>>>>>> It was a very clever ploy to force us all to have this discussion I >>>>>>> think ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> You want to know what's really weird? The more we talk about this, the >>>>> more sense "this me" makes. Wait. I never said that. >>>>> >>>>> Well, this me thinks this me is weird. But that's just me. This one, not >>>>> another one. >>>>> >>>>> Devin >>>>> >>>> >>>> Well, if you (Devin) had Jacque set as your behavior, then for you, "me" >>>> would think "this me" is weird syntax, but "this me" would think "this me" >>>> makes sense. Actually, that doesn't follow the rules of the language. I >>>> worked hard on it, so I'll send it anyway. >>> >>> I want to be his behavior. Then I can sit here inert, while Devin does all my work for this me. >> >> No, the behavior does all the work. >> >> set the this me of me to the this me of Jacque > > Oh right. This me got confused. We can't have this me doing all the work. > > I was telling The Husband about the naming debate and he suggested that since we're talking about parent scripts, we replace "this me" with "mama me". And with chained behaviors we can also have grandparent scripts, so this me's parent should be meemaw me. I'm really starting to warm up to this new me-centric syntax. that me - a behavior script that I don't have access to recent me - a behavior I used to have search me - do a find command on the object that owns this script help me [if you can] - implement contextual help [if activated] do re me - the new, engine-based replacement for Shakobox music playing. stop me - Please! Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Aug 9 15:15:21 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 19:15:21 +0000 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7C81106C-0707-4A4F-ADF6-34EF0C4BBC7B@byu.edu> On Aug 9, 2013, at 1:11 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > at least no one has suggested > that me > thisAWayThatAWay me > meme > you > miniMe > > or, my all time favorite > doReMi That's only because our emails crossed enroute. Wait for it! :) Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 9 15:41:01 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 15:41:01 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <7C81106C-0707-4A4F-ADF6-34EF0C4BBC7B@byu.edu> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> <7C81106C-0707-4A4F-ADF6-34EF0C4BBC7B@byu.edu> Message-ID: NICE - I see we had a couple of matches. That. Would. Be. Bad. On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > > On Aug 9, 2013, at 1:11 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > at least no one has suggested > > that me > > thisAWayThatAWay me > > meme > > you > > miniMe > > > > or, my all time favorite > > doReMi > > That's only because our emails crossed enroute. Wait for it! > > :) > > > Devin Asay > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From gcanyon at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 15:50:51 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 14:50:51 -0500 Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: References: <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com> <4FDE30C0-F9AD-47E3-8633-006124A82677@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: I recently solved http://projecteuler.net/problem=65. I won't post the actual code, but I had to (re)write two bignum libraries, so I'll post them here. Obviously these are being held back by the extensive use of items, but still, bigTimes returns the product of two 200+ digit integers in under a second: function bigTimes x,y -- returns the product of two arbitrary-length integers if char 1 of x is "-" then put "-" into leadChar delete char 1 of x end if if char 1 of y is "-" then if leadChar is "-" then put empty into leadChar else put "-" into leadChar delete char 1 of y end if repeat length(x) + length(y) put comma after R end repeat repeat with i = -1 down to -1 * length(y) repeat with j = -1 down to -1 * length(x) add char i of y * char j of x to item i + j + 1 of R end repeat end repeat put 0 into i repeat subtract 1 from i if item i of R is empty then exit repeat if item i of R < 10 then next repeat add item i of R div 10 to item i - 1 of R put item i of R mod 10 into item i of R end repeat replace comma with empty in R return leadChar & R end bigTimes function bigPlus x,y -- returns the sum of two arbitrary-length positive integers repeat max(length(x),length(y)) put comma after R end repeat put space after R repeat with i = -1 down to -1 * max(length(x),length(y)) put char i of y + char i of x into item i of R end repeat put 0 into i repeat subtract 1 from i if item i of R is empty then exit repeat if item i of R < 10 then next repeat add item i of R div 10 to item i - 1 of R put item i of R mod 10 into item i of R end repeat replace comma with empty in R return R end bigPlus On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 1:02 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > Project Euler doesn't do certificates, but if you want to work through > some of them I'd be happy to draw something up and send you a PDF ;-) > > Seriously -- I've solved about 80 of them, and although they start fairly > simple, they are a serious challenge after the first handful. The site > doesn't cover all use cases by any stretch, but there's no doubt that it's > a serious test. I had to write my own large integer arithmetic routines in > LC to solve some that involve 20+ digit numbers. > > gc > > > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 12:07 PM, John Dixon wrote: > >> Will I get a certificate ? >> >> > From: gcanyon at gmail.com >> > Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:07:28 -0500 >> > Subject: Re: Livecode Developer Certifications >> > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > >> > If I want to know if someone can code I'd ask them to solve a few >> > http://projecteuler.net/ problems. >> > >> > gc >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 7:35 AM, Rick Harrison < >> harrison at all-auctions.com>wrote: >> > >> > > Hi Simon, >> > > >> > > I found that certifications in general are >> > > only a way for computer education companies >> > > to make a big buck. In my experience, I found >> > > many people who were certified in a language >> > > were also terrible at what they were doing. >> > > >> > > I found many people who couldn't afford the >> > > time or money to get certification were the >> > > computer language wizards, and they were >> > > passed over for the job in favor of some guy >> > > who got the certification and was terrible at >> > > his job. >> > > >> > > It's not a good idea to go down that road. >> > > Those same computer educational companies >> > > ended up going out of business because people >> > > discovered certification was basically a scam to >> > > make money. >> > > >> > > Just my 2 cents. >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > >> > > Rick >> > > >> > > On Aug 9, 2013, at 3:18 AM, As_Simon wrote: >> > > >> > > > Alejandro Tejada wrote >> > > >> Does exists plans to create LiveCode Certifications? >> > > > >> > > > I hope not... >> > > > I test very poorly, always have. >> > > > >> > > > Simon >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > use-livecode mailing list >> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> > > subscription preferences: >> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 9 19:17:18 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 19:17:18 -0400 Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: References: <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com> <4FDE30C0-F9AD-47E3-8633-006124A82677@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: Alejandro, As an employer, I disagree. Certs, degrees, blah, blah, blah predict absolutely zero. When resumes come our way for folks with a bunch of certs I tend to be suspicious that I'm being had. I've seen engineers from the same school with vastly differing abilities, knowledge, and skill even in the same graduating class when I've taken several from that class. The worst case was the dude who was working on his MSc, had a stack of certs AND a BS and didn't make it through day 1. Sorry, maybe somebody else has gotten value from a stack of paper. For me, it's a way to keep my shredder from getting hungry and offing my office staff. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From michael_livecode at nayyan.com Fri Aug 9 19:34:33 2013 From: michael_livecode at nayyan.com (Michael Mays) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 18:34:33 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> <7C81106C-0707-4A4F-ADF6-34EF0C4BBC7B@byu.edu> Message-ID: <28716AA1-E997-46B7-81C4-1A499433784A@nayyan.com> if Sybil is true then set this me to Margie Of course Sybil was never true. Michael From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 9 19:42:33 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 16:42:33 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <28716AA1-E997-46B7-81C4-1A499433784A@nayyan.com> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> <7C81106C-0707-4A4F-ADF6-34EF0C4BBC7B@byu.edu> <28716AA1-E997-46B7-81C4-1A499433784A@nayyan.com> Message-ID: <25424543597.20130809164233@ahsoftware.net> Michael- Friday, August 9, 2013, 4:34:33 PM, you wrote: > if Sybil is true then set this me to Margie > Of course Sybil was never true. > Michael I think this me is read-only, so attempting to set it will only cause consternation. Continue to talk amongst yourself. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Fri Aug 9 19:49:56 2013 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 16:49:56 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <25424543597.20130809164233@ahsoftware.net> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> <7C81106C-0707-4A4F-ADF6-34EF0C4BBC7B@byu.edu> <28716AA1-E997-46B7-81C4-1A499433784A@nayyan.com> <25424543597.20130809164233@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > > > if Sybil is true then set this me to Margie > > > Of course Sybil was never true. > > > Michael > > I think this me is read-only, so attempting to set it will only cause > consternation. Continue to talk amongst yourself. > this can get into a weird area real fast. -- Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb From capellan2000 at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 21:11:50 2013 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 18:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: References: <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com> <4FDE30C0-F9AD-47E3-8633-006124A82677@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <1376097110732-4668586.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Mike, Mike Kerner wrote > [snip] > Certs, degrees, blah, blah, blah predict absolutely zero. > When resumes come our way for folks with a bunch of certs > I tend to be suspicious that I'm being had. > [snip] Yes, it's true. I have seen this myself... But, tell me if I am understanding you in the wrong way: Every employer who want to learn, in practice, if LiveCode could be really valuable for their business or project then.. (she or he) has to be already an expert in this platform to know how-to contract developers who could help to integrate LiveCode in their business or project. How a project manager or business owner could hire new personal to use Livecode if her/himself is not an expert in this platform? Now, imagine that these business or projects require expertise in Sockets, Databases, Externals or Multimedia. A Certification could help them to make better decisions when they decide to travel this path. Hopefully, I was able to write about all this, in a way that everybody could understand. :) Alejandro -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Livecode-Developer-Certifications-tp4668510p4668586.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From capellan2000 at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 21:30:41 2013 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 18:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: References: <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com> <4FDE30C0-F9AD-47E3-8633-006124A82677@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <1376098241960-4668587.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Geoff, Geoff Canyon-4 wrote > I recently solved http://projecteuler.net/problem=65. > [long snip] Wonderful. This is an outstanding example of the kind of challenges that Computer Scientist find everyday in their jobs: Do you need a tool that still do not exists to solve a problem? You create this tool and... solve the problem. Now, if we are talking about more mundane things like... - publishing an interactive textbook with sounds and animations, (+500 mb) - creating an app that downloads, store and display encrypted information - display in real time information from an external device - etc... employers would find really useful to know, besides a samples portfolio, the knowledge of the applicants in the platform of choice. Maybe, just maybe, Proficiency Certifications could help. or not? Why not? Alejandro -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Livecode-Developer-Certifications-tp4668510p4668587.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dan at clearvisiontech.com Fri Aug 9 21:47:01 2013 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 18:47:01 -0700 Subject: effective working screenRect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <397B138C-C649-4751-9CC5-B5965A3C8879@clearvisiontech.com> Greetings! Anyone know what am I doing wrong? Here's the script I am running on a iPhone 4 (works fine in the Simulator): put the effective working screenRect into tRect mobileControlCreate "multiline","myTextField" mobileControlSet "myTextField", "fontSize", 15 mobileControlSet "myTextField", "visible", true mobileControlDo "myTextField", "focus" put the effective working screenRect into rRect tRect is 0,0,320,480 rRect is also 0,0,320,480 (It should be the rect with the keyboard removed.) I found that if I wait 20 ticks before I get the effective working screenRect again, it returns the correct value. Anyone know the story on this? Thanks in advance! -Dan From michael_livecode at nayyan.com Fri Aug 9 22:25:49 2013 From: michael_livecode at nayyan.com (Michael Mays) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 21:25:49 -0500 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <25424543597.20130809164233@ahsoftware.net> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> <7C81106C-0707-4A4F-ADF6-34EF0C4BBC7B@byu.edu> <28716AA1-E997-46B7-81C4-1A499433784A@nayyan.com> <25424543597.20130809164233@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <6E266BAC-1D06-4E87-9374-FE590C679E43@nayyan.com> Not a problem if Sybil is true then if this me is margie then talk_like_margie else if this me is ruthie then talk_like_ruthie . . . else cash_in_from_scam end if end if On Aug 9, 2013, at 6:42 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Michael- > > Friday, August 9, 2013, 4:34:33 PM, you wrote: > >> if Sybil is true then set this me to Margie > >> Of course Sybil was never true. > >> Michael > > I think this me is read-only, so attempting to set it will only cause > consternation. Continue to talk amongst yourself. > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 9 22:26:37 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 22:26:37 -0400 Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: <1376098241960-4668587.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com> <4FDE30C0-F9AD-47E3-8633-006124A82677@all-auctions.com> <1376098241960-4668587.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Alejandro, I don't think so. Yes, it depends on the company and the decision-maker, but my experience has been that interviews, sample problems, and discussions with others seem to be far better predictors. If you want to hire someone with an eye for visual detail, hire someone who has made beautiful websites or apps. If you want to hire someone who can solve difficult logic problems, pose logic problems. If you want someone who knows LiveCode, get them started talking about it and see where it goes. This is just me, here, and I've hired less than a hundred people, total, in my career, but for me, a pile of certs is a negative. I am far more likely to pass that person over. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 9 22:26:37 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 22:26:37 -0400 Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: <1376098241960-4668587.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com> <4FDE30C0-F9AD-47E3-8633-006124A82677@all-auctions.com> <1376098241960-4668587.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Alejandro, I don't think so. Yes, it depends on the company and the decision-maker, but my experience has been that interviews, sample problems, and discussions with others seem to be far better predictors. If you want to hire someone with an eye for visual detail, hire someone who has made beautiful websites or apps. If you want to hire someone who can solve difficult logic problems, pose logic problems. If you want someone who knows LiveCode, get them started talking about it and see where it goes. This is just me, here, and I've hired less than a hundred people, total, in my career, but for me, a pile of certs is a negative. I am far more likely to pass that person over. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Aug 10 00:38:34 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 23:38:34 -0500 Subject: effective working screenRect In-Reply-To: <397B138C-C649-4751-9CC5-B5965A3C8879@clearvisiontech.com> References: <397B138C-C649-4751-9CC5-B5965A3C8879@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: <620E8B3C-AB62-4DAC-8FF1-0C3DE04E4E1E@gmail.com> This is just a guess, but the keyboard takes time to pop out. If you check without waiting, the keyboard might not have deployed yet. I'm curious what would happen if you did a repeat with a 1 tick delay and grabbed the text into an array. Would it be same, same, same, same, changed all the way, same new value, same new value? Or would it be same, same, a little different, a little more different, still more different, mostly different, nearly done, all done, all done, all done? Sent from my iPad On Aug 9, 2013, at 8:47 PM, Dan Friedman wrote: > Greetings! > > Anyone know what am I doing wrong? Here's the script I am running on a iPhone 4 (works fine in the Simulator): > > put the effective working screenRect into tRect > mobileControlCreate "multiline","myTextField" > mobileControlSet "myTextField", "fontSize", 15 > mobileControlSet "myTextField", "visible", true > mobileControlDo "myTextField", "focus" > put the effective working screenRect into rRect > > tRect is 0,0,320,480 > rRect is also 0,0,320,480 (It should be the rect with the keyboard removed.) > > I found that if I wait 20 ticks before I get the effective working screenRect again, it returns the correct value. > > Anyone know the story on this? > > > Thanks in advance! > > -Dan > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Aug 10 00:44:00 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 23:44:00 -0500 Subject: Livecode Developer Certifications In-Reply-To: <1376098241960-4668587.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1376032705657-4668553.post@n4.nabble.com> <4FDE30C0-F9AD-47E3-8633-006124A82677@all-auctions.com> <1376098241960-4668587.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <95F4EB30-750E-4491-8934-55BB5FEEABCC@gmail.com> I don't have an opinion on certifications, at least not one I feel strongly enough about to advocate for it on a mailing list. I was just saying what I would do. Sent from my iPad On Aug 9, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > employers would find really useful to know, besides a samples portfolio, > the knowledge of the applicants in the platform of choice. > Maybe, just maybe, Proficiency Certifications could help. > or not? Why not? From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 10 01:01:05 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 22:01:05 -0700 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <6E266BAC-1D06-4E87-9374-FE590C679E43@nayyan.com> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> <7C81106C-0707-4A4F-ADF6-34EF0C4BBC7B@byu.edu> <28716AA1-E997-46B7-81C4-1A499433784A@nayyan.com> <25424543597.20130809164233@ahsoftware.net> <6E266BAC-1D06-4E87-9374-FE590C679E43@nayyan.com> Message-ID: <65443655827.20130809220105@ahsoftware.net> Michael- Friday, August 9, 2013, 7:25:49 PM, you wrote: > Not a problem > if Sybil is true then > if this me is margie then > talk_like_margie > else if this me is ruthie then > talk_like_ruthie > . > . > . if this me is johnny_depp then talk_like_a_pirate -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From capellan2000 at gmail.com Sat Aug 10 01:29:25 2013 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 22:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Using a HDMI TV stick to test LiveCode apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1376112565384-4668594.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Roger, These new Android devices seems really versatile and useful! Hopefully, the quality of offerings will evolve more trustworthy as time goes by... This device looks really good: www.amazon.com/Android-Quad-core-Bluetooth-headphone-standard/dp/B00AZR1TG2 Does exists a website with complete reviews of every new Android device? Al -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Using-a-HDMI-TV-stick-to-test-LiveCode-apps-tp4668570p4668594.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From vclement at gmail.com Sat Aug 10 10:41:55 2013 From: vclement at gmail.com (Vaughn Clement) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 07:41:55 -0700 Subject: MobGui and Resolution Indipendence In-Reply-To: References: <9E270428-6234-405D-8E14-3BCAD7997000@sweattechnologies.com> <1375867638.53764.YahooMailNeo@web28801.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Is there a reason that the referenced videos are password protected? Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 3:04 AM, paolo mazza wrote: > Mark, > thank you very much for your message and for your deep analysis. > It was really helpfull. > I agree with you that at the moment the best solution to deploy a > mobile app seems to be to integrate LiveCode with the mApp framework > provided by Monte. > Then, Monte's video about mApp at the RunrevLIve 2013 ( available at > http://www.runrevlive.com/rrl13/simulcast13/ ) is quite useful to > lear how to use it. So, let's start studing it!! > Thank's a lot for all the precious pieces of information. > All the best, > Paolo > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Mark Wilcox > wrote: > >>> Then I wonder how to deal with the MIT licence if I have to deploy a > commercial app. > > > > The MIT license tells you - you have to provide a copy of the copyright > notice and permission statement (essentially a copy of the license file) > with all copies of the software, although I'm sure Monte isn't planning to > sue anyone who doesn't. > > > > There is nothing that says you have to make a copy of the license highly > visible or easy to access, so you could just add it to the app bundle as an > external file. However, generally accepted practice is to either include > the license in an about box in your app if you have one, or add it to the > end of your EULA on the App Store if you don't. > > > >>> Then, to sumarize, at the present time, what is the best practice to > create a little commercial app for the iOS devices ? > > > > There isn't really an ideal solution at the moment, so it depends on > your current and expected future requirements. How long is the app likely > to be maintained? Might you ever want to build it for Android? > > > >>> - build an app with several different layouts taylored according the > "iphoneUseDeviceResolution" > > > > This works for iOS only but as an approach doesn't scale to Android > where there are so many more resolutions to deal with. The native iOS > development community have been strongly encouraged towards auto-layout > recently which suggests there may be some additional resolutions on the way > for iOS too. > > > > > >>> - installingMobGui plugin and let this software to manage the > resolution issues > > > > I believe the future of this plugin will remain uncertain until RunRev > have released (or at least revealed much more detail on) their resolution > independence and native platform themes functionality. It would work for > now but you *might* need to switch away from it in the future. > > > >>> - using mApp framework > > > > This appears to be a viable long term solution across all platforms but > as you say it doesn't really have any documentation yet, so there will be a > greater learning curve. > > > >>> - wait for the "resolution independence" be integrated in LiveCode > > > > > > If you have no time pressure then this is the easiest option but I > wouldn't count on having something complete and stable in the next few > months. It's also not yet clear that this will be sufficient for most apps > or if you'll still need something like mApp to manage layouts dynamically - > from what I've read about the feature so far it looks like the latter may > be the case. > > > > Hope that helps, > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dan at clearvisiontech.com Sat Aug 10 10:47:17 2013 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 07:47:17 -0700 Subject: effective working screenRect Message-ID: <0F82ECCE-8487-4F96-AD64-C1BCDE6AF563@clearvisiontech.com> Geoff, Thanks for the reply (and good to hear from you!) I put this in: repeat until the effective working screenRect <> tRect wait 1 tick end repeat If just stuck in the loop forever. -Dan > This is just a guess, but the keyboard takes time to pop out. If you check without waiting, the keyboard might not have deployed yet. I'm curious what would happen if you did a repeat with a 1 tick delay and grabbed the text into an array. Would it be same, same, same, same, changed all the way, same new value, same new value? Or would it be same, same, a little different, a little more different, still more different, mostly different, nearly done, all done, all done, all done? > > Sent from my iPad >> >> On Aug 9, 2013, at 8:47 PM, Dan Friedman > >> Greetings! >> >> Anyone know what am I doing wrong? Here's the script I am running on a iPhone 4 (works fine in the Simulator): >> >> put the effective working screenRect into tRect >> mobileControlCreate "multiline","myTextField" >> mobileControlSet "myTextField", "fontSize", 15 >> mobileControlSet "myTextField", "visible", true >> mobileControlDo "myTextField", "focus" >> put the effective working screenRect into rRect >> >> tRect is 0,0,320,480 >> rRect is also 0,0,320,480 (It should be the rect with the keyboard removed.) >> >> I found that if I wait 20 ticks before I get the effective working screenRect again, it returns the correct value. >> >> Anyone know the story on this? >> >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> -Dan From marc.vancauwenberghe at pandora.be Sat Aug 10 11:08:52 2013 From: marc.vancauwenberghe at pandora.be (Marc Van Cauwenberghe) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 17:08:52 +0200 Subject: MobGui and Resolution Indipendence In-Reply-To: References: <9E270428-6234-405D-8E14-3BCAD7997000@sweattechnologies.com> <1375867638.53764.YahooMailNeo@web28801.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9056A4A3-26BB-45C1-B00B-C3B87F053C03@pandora.be> Hi Vaughn, I think you have to pay to see them. Marc Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone Op 10-aug.-2013 om 16:41 heeft Vaughn Clement het volgende geschreven: > Hi > > Is there a reason that the referenced videos are password protected? > > Thank you > > Vaughn Clement > > Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) > *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* > Skype: vaughn.clement > https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement > FaceTime: vclement at gmail.com > LogMeIn also avaialble > Call on "ooVoo" at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 > Ph. 928-254-9062 > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 3:04 AM, paolo mazza wrote: > >> Mark, >> thank you very much for your message and for your deep analysis. >> It was really helpfull. >> I agree with you that at the moment the best solution to deploy a >> mobile app seems to be to integrate LiveCode with the mApp framework >> provided by Monte. >> Then, Monte's video about mApp at the RunrevLIve 2013 ( available at >> http://www.runrevlive.com/rrl13/simulcast13/ ) is quite useful to >> lear how to use it. So, let's start studing it!! >> Thank's a lot for all the precious pieces of information. >> All the best, >> Paolo >> >> On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Mark Wilcox >> wrote: >>>>> Then I wonder how to deal with the MIT licence if I have to deploy a >> commercial app. >>> >>> The MIT license tells you - you have to provide a copy of the copyright >> notice and permission statement (essentially a copy of the license file) >> with all copies of the software, although I'm sure Monte isn't planning to >> sue anyone who doesn't. >>> >>> There is nothing that says you have to make a copy of the license highly >> visible or easy to access, so you could just add it to the app bundle as an >> external file. However, generally accepted practice is to either include >> the license in an about box in your app if you have one, or add it to the >> end of your EULA on the App Store if you don't. >>> >>>>> Then, to sumarize, at the present time, what is the best practice to >> create a little commercial app for the iOS devices ? >>> >>> There isn't really an ideal solution at the moment, so it depends on >> your current and expected future requirements. How long is the app likely >> to be maintained? Might you ever want to build it for Android? >>> >>>>> - build an app with several different layouts taylored according the >> "iphoneUseDeviceResolution" >>> >>> This works for iOS only but as an approach doesn't scale to Android >> where there are so many more resolutions to deal with. The native iOS >> development community have been strongly encouraged towards auto-layout >> recently which suggests there may be some additional resolutions on the way >> for iOS too. >>> >>> >>>>> - installingMobGui plugin and let this software to manage the >> resolution issues >>> >>> I believe the future of this plugin will remain uncertain until RunRev >> have released (or at least revealed much more detail on) their resolution >> independence and native platform themes functionality. It would work for >> now but you *might* need to switch away from it in the future. >>> >>>>> - using mApp framework >>> >>> This appears to be a viable long term solution across all platforms but >> as you say it doesn't really have any documentation yet, so there will be a >> greater learning curve. >>> >>>>> - wait for the "resolution independence" be integrated in LiveCode >>> >>> >>> If you have no time pressure then this is the easiest option but I >> wouldn't count on having something complete and stable in the next few >> months. It's also not yet clear that this will be sufficient for most apps >> or if you'll still need something like mApp to manage layouts dynamically - >> from what I've read about the feature so far it looks like the latter may >> be the case. >>> >>> Hope that helps, >>> Mark >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Aug 10 11:14:19 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 08:14:19 -0700 Subject: [NOT SO OT] Kids Can't Use Computers Message-ID: <502D003A-1443-4DDE-8ED0-7FCE9532BA47@tactilemedia.com> Interestingly, my son emailed me this with his thanks for being "schooled" early in his life. http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX Design From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Sat Aug 10 11:41:14 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 11:41:14 -0400 Subject: "this me"? In-Reply-To: <65443655827.20130809220105@ahsoftware.net> References: <52041FAF.80704@fourthworld.com> <0876947E-C4DA-4F4C-BE7B-953AB41736E5@sweattechnologies.com> <520428FB.5050602@hyperactivesw.com> <52053376.4030003@hyperactivesw.com> <314BE7C9-99D7-4553-9EE4-DF407B5D376B@byu.edu> <520539B5.70203@hyperactivesw.com> <7C81106C-0707-4A4F-ADF6-34EF0C4BBC7B@byu.edu> <28716AA1-E997-46B7-81C4-1A499433784A@nayyan.com> <25424543597.20130809164233@ahsoftware.net> <6E266BAC-1D06-4E87-9374-FE590C679E43@nayyan.com> <65443655827.20130809220105@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Aug 10, 2013 1:03 AM, "Mark Wieder" wrote: > > if this me is johnny_depp then > talk_like_a_pirate > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net if this me is nicholas_cage then switch (which_character) case default talk_like_nicholas_cage break end switch end if ~Roger From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 10 12:19:50 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 09:19:50 -0700 Subject: effective working screenRect In-Reply-To: <0F82ECCE-8487-4F96-AD64-C1BCDE6AF563@clearvisiontech.com> References: <0F82ECCE-8487-4F96-AD64-C1BCDE6AF563@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: <199484380823.20130810091950@ahsoftware.net> Dan- Saturday, August 10, 2013, 7:47:17 AM, you wrote: > If just stuck in the loop forever. Doctor says don't do that. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 10 12:38:33 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 09:38:33 -0700 Subject: [NOT SO OT] Kids Can't Use Computers In-Reply-To: <502D003A-1443-4DDE-8ED0-7FCE9532BA47@tactilemedia.com> References: <502D003A-1443-4DDE-8ED0-7FCE9532BA47@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: <194485503408.20130810093833@ahsoftware.net> Scott- Thanks. I just passed it on as well. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Aug 10 12:46:15 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 11:46:15 -0500 Subject: effective working screenRect In-Reply-To: <0F82ECCE-8487-4F96-AD64-C1BCDE6AF563@clearvisiontech.com> References: <0F82ECCE-8487-4F96-AD64-C1BCDE6AF563@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: That seems weird. You're saying this works: get the effective working screeRect -- keyboard is not open -- do something that will open the keyboard wait 20 ticks get the effective working screeRect -- different rect because keyboard is open But this never exits: put the effective working screeRect into tRect -- keyboard is not open -- do something that will open the keyboard repeat until the effective working screenRect <> tRect wait 1 tick end repeat If that's the case, I can only assume that there is some threshold for waiting that allows other things to happen and one tick isn't long enough. Still, that's odd. Sent from my iPad On Aug 10, 2013, at 9:47 AM, Dan Friedman wrote: > Thanks for the reply (and good to hear from you!) I put this in: > > repeat until the effective working screenRect <> tRect > wait 1 tick > end repeat > > If just stuck in the loop forever. From abilitybf at att.net Sat Aug 10 12:58:27 2013 From: abilitybf at att.net (Joe Hamburger) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 09:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Corrupted Stack In-Reply-To: References: <0F82ECCE-8487-4F96-AD64-C1BCDE6AF563@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: <1376153907.85596.YahooMailNeo@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Everyone, This is strange. The stack I'm referring to works fine when everything I do is within the stack. However, when I try to alter some field data in this stack from a script in another stack, LiveCode force quits. I have used several different ways to change the data but it quits almost every time. I tried going to a backup copy of the bad stack but apparently I backed up before I realized there was a defect in the stack. My questions are: 1) Is there a way to fix the bad stack? 2) If not, is it safe to copy the fields and buttons from the bad stack into a new stack? I've used several different builds of LiveCode and the problem persists. Currently I'm using Community 6.1.1 (rc2) on Mac OS 10.6.8 Thanks for your help in advance. I'm so glad this group is available for help in situations like this one. Joe Orlando, FL, USA From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 10 13:04:17 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 10:04:17 -0700 Subject: effective working screenRect In-Reply-To: References: <0F82ECCE-8487-4F96-AD64-C1BCDE6AF563@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: <55487047143.20130810100417@ahsoftware.net> Geoff- Saturday, August 10, 2013, 9:46:15 AM, you wrote: > If that's the case, I can only assume that there is some > threshold for waiting that allows other things to happen and one > tick isn't long enough. Still, that's odd. Not that odd. One tick is a pretty small time slice. Maybe wait 1 tick with messages might work better, but I can't imagine that tight a loop leading to anything but trouble. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Sat Aug 10 15:27:22 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 15:27:22 -0400 Subject: Using a HDMI TV stick to test LiveCode apps In-Reply-To: <1376112565384-4668594.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1376112565384-4668594.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: I don't know of a complete resource that reviews every known Android device, but there are many covered by enthusiasts on YouTube. The SlateDroid forum is good too. The quad-core device you found is nice. It uses the next gen RockChip cpu. You have to watch out for devices like this which aren't adequately ventilated though. Early models would overheat and shut off, which is why I got one with holes all over the case. ~Roger On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 1:29 AM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Hi Roger, > > These new Android devices seems really versatile and useful! > Hopefully, the quality of offerings will evolve more trustworthy > as time goes by... > > This device looks really good: > www.amazon.com/Android-Quad-core-Bluetooth-headphone-standard/dp/B00AZR1TG2 > > Does exists a website with complete reviews of every new > Android device? > > Al > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 10 16:06:38 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 13:06:38 -0700 Subject: Corrupted Stack In-Reply-To: <1376153907.85596.YahooMailNeo@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1376153907.85596.YahooMailNeo@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <52069D4E.1050107@fourthworld.com> Joe Hamburger wrote: > This is strange. The stack I'm referring to works fine when > everything I do is within the stack. However, when I try to > alter some field data in this stack from a script in another > stack, LiveCode force quits. I have used several different > ways to change the data but it quits almost every time. Strange indeed. I've found LC surprisingly robost, certainly more so than any other xTalk I've used. If you have multiple cards, can you lock messages and open card 2 of that stack? Can you at least open it without editing the contents of that field? Have you tried opening it in LC on other OSes? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Aug 10 16:17:14 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 13:17:14 -0700 Subject: PNG Image Optimization In-Reply-To: <1375761116812-4668374.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: This is a late response to your question, but in my experience, all of the options you cite will usually work only if the colors of your source image can comfortably fit within a range of 256 colors. Images that are primarily solid colors or have very complex patterns where dithering isn't apparent are good candidates for reducing to 8 bit. Photographic images with wide ranges of color will often display visual artifacts when their color is reduced to 8 bits, so the end result is not better than the original. FWIW, if you're working on OS X, you might consider ImageOptim (http://imageoptim.com/) to optimize your PNG images. It's an open source collection of tools combined to batch optimize PNGs, and claims to reduce images to PNG8 + alpha (same as the sites you mention) when possible. Whether it's the best or not, I can't say, but I've noted substantial file size savings using it. It's slow with large images, so you'll have to decide if the space saving is worthwhile in those cases. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/5/13 8:51 PM, "Alejandro Tejada" wrote: >Hi all, > >Recently, I was testing the efficiency of different >bitmap image optimization methods and found >these webpages that optimize PNG files: > >http://www.8bitalpha.com/ >http://tinypng.org/ >http://compresspng.com/ > >24 bit Transparent PNG files reduced to 8 bit >look better and are much more smaller. > >Could you test if this is true in your own computer? >How many of you optimize all images used in your >own stacks and applications? > >You could use this image: >http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Gluecksklee_(transparen >t_background).png > >Thanks in advance! > >Al > >P.D. >These are similar webpages: >http://jpeg-optimizer.com/ >http://compressjpg.com/ >http://media4x.com/jpeg-minimizer/ >http://www.jpegreducer.com/ >http://www.gifreducer.com/ >http://tools.dynamicdrive.com/imageoptimizer/ >http://webresizer.com/resizer/ >https://kraken.io/web-interface > > > > > > > >-- >View this message in context: >http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/PNG-Image-Optimization-tp46 >68374.html >Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From abilitybf at att.net Sat Aug 10 16:27:23 2013 From: abilitybf at att.net (Joe Hamburger) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 13:27:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Corrupted Stack In-Reply-To: <52069D4E.1050107@fourthworld.com> References: <1376153907.85596.YahooMailNeo@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52069D4E.1050107@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Richard, Thanks for trying to help. I'm using LiveCode to operate my business. The stacks I've created are exclusively for my use. As such, I don't have access to anything other than the MacOS. The corrupted stack I'm talking about appears fine. I can open any card in it and do whatever I want within the stack. The problem arises when I use a script in another stack to alter the contents of fields in this stack. I don't know if it's a specific field that's the problem or the stack itself. I can alter all the fields in the bad stack as long as I do it with a script in the damaged stack. My question is, since I can open the damaged stack, is it safe to cut from it and paste it into a new replacement stack? Would I be better off to abandon the damaged stack and start completely fresh. Of course that's assuming there's no way to examine and fix the malfunctioning stack. I hope it can somehow be fixed, that will save me a boatload of time. Joe Orlando Florida, USA ________________________________ From: Richard Gaskin To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 4:06 PM Subject: Re: Corrupted Stack Joe Hamburger wrote: > This is strange. The stack I'm referring to works fine when > everything I do is within the stack. However, when I try to > alter some field data in this stack from a script in another > stack, LiveCode force quits. I have used several different > ways to change the data but it quits almost every time. Strange indeed.? I've found LC surprisingly robost, certainly more so than any other xTalk I've used. If you have multiple cards, can you lock messages and open card 2 of that stack? Can you at least open it without editing the contents of that field? Have you tried opening it in LC on other OSes? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter:? http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Aug 10 16:28:11 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 15:28:11 -0500 Subject: effective working screenRect In-Reply-To: <55487047143.20130810100417@ahsoftware.net> References: <0F82ECCE-8487-4F96-AD64-C1BCDE6AF563@clearvisiontech.com> <55487047143.20130810100417@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Geoff- > > Saturday, August 10, 2013, 9:46:15 AM, you wrote: > > > If that's the case, I can only assume that there is some > > threshold for waiting that allows other things to happen and one > > tick isn't long enough. Still, that's odd. > > Not that odd. One tick is a pretty small time slice. Maybe > wait 1 tick with messages > might work better, but I can't imagine that tight a loop leading to > anything but trouble. > I suppose, but still I would expect that a loop like that would leave 99.99% of whatever device it's running on free to do whatever, since that code is executing a max of 60 times per second, and should take the smallest fraction of a second to run each time. But agreed, although I don't know Dan's particular circumstances, changing the wait command to 20 ticks seems perfectly reasonable. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 10 16:30:49 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 13:30:49 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <8D062884AF90EDA-10BC-3131@webmail-m214.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <40499439315.20130810133049@ahsoftware.net> Mike- Opened for discussion at -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 10 16:35:19 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 13:35:19 -0700 Subject: Corrupted Stack In-Reply-To: <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1376153907.85596.YahooMailNeo@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52069D4E.1050107@fourthworld.com> <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <121499709045.20130810133519@ahsoftware.net> Joe- Saturday, August 10, 2013, 1:27:23 PM, you wrote: > I don't know if it's a specific field that's the problem or the > stack itself. I can alter all the fields in the bad stack as long as > I do it with a script in the damaged stack. Any chance there's a mismatch in stack versions? Are you trying to open an LC6-version stack with an LC5-version stack? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 10 16:40:29 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 13:40:29 -0700 Subject: Corrupted Stack In-Reply-To: <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5206A53D.4010004@fourthworld.com> Joe Hamburger wrote: > The corrupted stack I'm talking about appears fine. I can open > any card in it and do whatever I want within the stack. The > problem arises when I use a script in another stack to alter > the contents of fields in this stack. ... > My question is, since I can open the damaged stack, is it safe > to cut from it and paste it into a new replacement stack? Would > I be better off to abandon the damaged stack and start completely > fresh. Given the general robustness of LC and the specific symptoms being limited to editing field contents, my hunch is that you should be able to safely copy stuff out into a new stack - except that one field's contents, of course. In fact, you may be able to continue using the stack you have if you can at least delete the field's contents, or perhaps the field itself. But before you do, it may be helpful to write out the field's contents to a binary file for review and analysis: put fld "Whatever" into url ("binfile:"& \ specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/myWeirdData.txt") It may also be good to save a copy of the errant stack itself for further review. It would be interesting to see if there are non-ASCII characters there. One might expect that NULLs can be problematic, but I've had NULLs in fields without crashing. Maybe some other sequence there is causing the engine to go wonky? Where did the data in the field come from? Was it all typed, or imported from a file made by another program, or pasted? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 10 17:01:07 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 14:01:07 -0700 Subject: effective working screenRect In-Reply-To: References: <0F82ECCE-8487-4F96-AD64-C1BCDE6AF563@clearvisiontech.com> <55487047143.20130810100417@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <80501257822.20130810140107@ahsoftware.net> Geoff- Saturday, August 10, 2013, 1:28:11 PM, you wrote: > I suppose, but still I would expect that a loop like that would leave > 99.99% of whatever device it's running on free to do whatever, since that > code is executing a max of 60 times per second, and should take the > smallest fraction of a second to run each time. But wait without messages is blocking, so the tight loop is using up all of the available cpu time. Even though the wait is sitting there for 1/60 of a second, nothing else is getting done. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Aug 10 18:26:13 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 17:26:13 -0500 Subject: effective working screenRect In-Reply-To: <80501257822.20130810140107@ahsoftware.net> References: <0F82ECCE-8487-4F96-AD64-C1BCDE6AF563@clearvisiontech.com> <55487047143.20130810100417@ahsoftware.net> <80501257822.20130810140107@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Okay, this is really weird. This barely moves the CPU needle -- 3% CPU usage for me: repeat 50 wait 10 ticks end repeat This punches the CPU pretty hard -- 20% CPU usage for me, > 6x, despite it only cycling twice as often: repeat 100 wait 5 ticks end repeat Then this scales pretty much the way I would expect, 50% (2.5x): repeat 200 wait 2 ticks end repeat And as you said, this pegs at 100% repeat 200 wait 1 ticks end repeat On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Geoff- > > Saturday, August 10, 2013, 1:28:11 PM, you wrote: > > > I suppose, but still I would expect that a loop like that would leave > > 99.99% of whatever device it's running on free to do whatever, since that > > code is executing a max of 60 times per second, and should take the > > smallest fraction of a second to run each time. > > But wait without messages is blocking, so the tight loop is using up > all of the available cpu time. Even though the wait is sitting there > for 1/60 of a second, nothing else is getting done. > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 10 19:32:22 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 16:32:22 -0700 Subject: An SQL query to return an UPDATE for the results? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: >> I can't wrap the selects like that, due to the bug on the return values: >> >> SELECT val1,val2 FROM tableA >> SELECT val1 from tableB >> >> where tableA is all A and B is all B yields >> >> A,A <- this is correct >> B, A <- the A is left over from the prior query with more >> columns. >> >> What bug? I have never experienced that. Just did it again, and checked. put "SELECT * FROM " & dhtbl_dinfo & ";" & cr into dcmd put "SELECT * FROM " & dhtbl_dna & ";" & cr after dcmd put revDataFromQuery(tab,vtab,debtorDb,dcmd) into theData I'm only getting the results from the second query. If done separately, I get multiple rows from the first query. This is with postgres. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 10 20:58:11 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 17:58:11 -0700 Subject: SQLite/LiveCode Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5206E1A3.7010601@fourthworld.com> In May 2012, Peter Haworth wrote: > The SQLite library included with Livecode up to 5.0 is 3.7.4. > It dates from about 1 1/2 years ago and there have been 7 > major releases of the library since then including several > enhancements and performance improvements. > > The library includes support for two of the three components > of the SQLite Full Text Search extension, fts3 and fts4, but > not ftsaux. The rtree extension is included in the library > but is not available because it has to be enabled at compile time. > > SQLite include a load_extension function that provides the capability > of loading extensions from an external library. That extension is > not exposed to Livecode. Full message here: I stumbled across this while searching the list for info on SQLite, and raises an intriguing question: Now that LC is open source, what would it take to update the SQLite version and expose these newer optional features? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 10 21:07:20 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 18:07:20 -0700 Subject: SQLite/LiveCode Issues In-Reply-To: <5206E1A3.7010601@fourthworld.com> References: <5206E1A3.7010601@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <113516030618.20130810180720@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Saturday, August 10, 2013, 5:58:11 PM, you wrote: > Now that LC is open source, what would it take to update the SQLite > version and expose these newer optional features? Having just updated the libxml library, I hope it's easier than that. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From gcanyon at gmail.com Sun Aug 11 10:19:15 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 09:19:15 -0500 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects Message-ID: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> Has anyone looked at syncing a git repository through LC? Not LC projects -- I'm planning an app that has distributed data, and git seems like a reasonable way to manage that if I can reasonably control clone, pull, and push, and present the results to the user to resolve conflicts. Has anyone already written something like this? From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 11 11:59:12 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 08:59:12 -0700 Subject: revDataBaseTableNames() not returning all table names? Message-ID: I'm now running into an issue where I check to see if a table I need exists, and create it if it doesn't. However, this creates an error when it tries to create an existing table. When I look at the results from revDataBaseTableNames(), it is missing large numbers of fields. Do I need to query the postgres schema instead? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 11 12:48:16 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 09:48:16 -0700 Subject: SQLite/LiveCode Issues In-Reply-To: <5206E1A3.7010601@fourthworld.com> References: <5206E1A3.7010601@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Now that LC is open source, what would it take to update the SQLite > version and expose these newer optional features? Would be great if someone would take that on. Quite a few more new SQLite features have been introduced since I write the original message over a year ago. Pete lcSQL Software From capellan2000 at gmail.com Sun Aug 11 14:24:54 2013 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 14:24:54 -0400 Subject: PNG Image Optimization Message-ID: Hi Scott, on Sat, 10 Aug 2013 13:17:14 -0700 Scott Rossi wrote: > in my experience, all of the options you cite > will usually work only if the colors of your source image > can comfortably fit within a range of 256 colors. > Images that are primarily solid colors or have > very complex patterns where dithering isn't > apparent are good candidates for reducing to 8 bit. > Photographic images with wide ranges of color > will often display visual artifacts when their color is > reduced to 8 bits, so the end result is not better > than the original. Many Thanks, Scott, for answering this request. Did you test optimizing this image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/common/b/bc/Gluecksklee_(transparent_background).png in each one of these websites? http://www.8bitalpha.com/ http://tinypng.org/ http://compresspng.com/ In my tests, 8bitalpha.com always produces a smaller image and reduces the visible white artifacts around the transparent png. Al From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 14:44:58 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 13:44:58 -0500 Subject: Corrupted Stack In-Reply-To: <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1376153907.85596.YahooMailNeo@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52069D4E.1050107@fourthworld.com> <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5207DBAA.5020907@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/10/13 3:27 PM, Joe Hamburger wrote: > The corrupted stack I'm > talking about appears fine. I can open any card in it and do whatever > I want within the stack. The problem arises when I use a script in > another stack to alter the contents of fields in this stack. > > I don't know if it's a specific field that's the problem or the stack > itself. I can alter all the fields in the bad stack as long as I do > it with a script in the damaged stack. This doesn't sound like stack corruption to me, it sounds like a problem with either the script syntax or the content of the field. I think your stack is fine. What syntax are you using to set the text from a different stack? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Sun Aug 11 15:11:28 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 12:11:28 -0700 Subject: PNG Image Optimization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Al: I often use a "stress test" image that contains a color wheel and varying levels of transparency. I tried a couple of the sites and the outcomes were pretty similar. For myself, I'd rather use a tool that will batch process files locally and produce decent results, which ImageOptim seems to do. It's possible one of those sites might save a few more bytes here or there, but as there already aren't enough hours in the day, I'd rather spend my time solving other issues in my apps :-) Thanks for pointing out the additional optimizing options. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX Design On Aug 11, 2013, at 11:24 AM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Hi Scott, > > on Sat, 10 Aug 2013 13:17:14 -0700 > Scott Rossi wrote: > >> in my experience, all of the options you cite >> will usually work only if the colors of your source image >> can comfortably fit within a range of 256 colors. >> Images that are primarily solid colors or have >> very complex patterns where dithering isn't >> apparent are good candidates for reducing to 8 bit. >> Photographic images with wide ranges of color >> will often display visual artifacts when their color is >> reduced to 8 bits, so the end result is not better >> than the original. > > Many Thanks, Scott, for answering this request. > > Did you test optimizing this image: > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/common/b/bc/Gluecksklee_(transparent_background).png > > in each one of these websites? > > http://www.8bitalpha.com/ > http://tinypng.org/ > http://compresspng.com/ > > In my tests, 8bitalpha.com always produces > a smaller image and reduces the visible > white artifacts around the transparent png. > > Al > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 11 16:16:59 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 13:16:59 -0700 Subject: getting a timestamp (or other value) back from an SQL UPDATE statement Message-ID: For my database transactions, the lag time is the expensive part; the transactions themselves are blindingly fast. I can bundle hundreds of UPDATE statements together without a problem. On some of them, though, I'm setting a column to NOW()--which works. I have another table in the same database which is really an index that also keeps the last updated time for each of the groups of clients (three tables per client). I would like to have the last statement be something like, UPDATE myindex SET tmstmp=NOW() RETURNING tmstmp; If I put this as the last thing in a BEGIN/END block using revExecuteSQL, I still get the numeric success code as "the result", rather than the returned value. If I send a block through revDatabaseQuery() with no BEGIN/END wrapper, apparently only that last line gets executed. If I send it *with* begin/end wrappers, the result is "revdberr," (just the one word; this is another postgres/livecode bug returning that on some successful transactions. Any bright ideas as to how to turn this to a single transaction? (I don't just need the table to have the timestamp; I need it back to measure future changes against (I use in queries to see if the db has been changed by another user after that time)) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 11 17:02:08 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 14:02:08 -0700 Subject: An SQL query to return an UPDATE for the results? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > I'm only getting the results from the second query. If done separately, > I get multiple rows from the first query. > That's what I'd expect, the results of the second query ovewrite the results of the first SELECT. What you need is "SELECT . UNION SELECT Pete lcSQL Software From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 17:18:34 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 16:18:34 -0500 Subject: PNG Image Optimization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5207FFAA.6050008@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/13 2:11 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > For myself, I'd rather use a tool > that will batch process files locally and produce decent results, > which ImageOptim seems to do. The same author has made a Mac GUI for imageAlpha, which is based on the same source code as the tinyPng web site. I've been playing with imageAlpha today and for the images I'm using it works great. I can reduce them down to 8 bit or even 4 bit without any visual differences. There is a batch mode you can run from Terminal. It might be useful for those who would rather run the app locally than through the tinyPng web site. Mac GUI: Binary for all other platforms: -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 11 17:30:54 2013 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 05:30:54 +0800 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 3:34 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > When you think of it that way, it all falls into place. > > Not really. In the Message Box: put "1,1,3,2,1,4" into tStore put tStore into msg put empty into item -1 of tStore put cr & tStore after msg put cr & item -1 of tStore after msg put 7 into item -1 of tStore put cr & tStore after msg This is a rather big gotcha! You asked LC to create an empty item and then put a number into your place holder. LC deleted an item instead, which then mangled your data. If LC acted consistently then I'd agree that just learning that a delimiter followed by empty is not an item, but if that is the case then whenever you ask LC to create an empty item then LC should ensure there is a delimiter after it. It's just a PITA to keep checking From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 17:47:18 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 16:47:18 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/13 4:30 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 3:34 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> >> When you think of it that way, it all falls into place. >> >> Not really. In the Message Box: > > put "1,1,3,2,1,4" into tStore > put tStore into msg > put empty into item -1 of tStore > put cr & tStore after msg > put cr & item -1 of tStore after msg > put 7 into item -1 of tStore > put cr & tStore after msg > > This is a rather big gotcha! You asked LC to create an empty item and then > put a number into your place holder. LC deleted an item instead, which then > mangled your data. > > If LC acted consistently then I'd agree that just learning that a delimiter > followed by empty is not an item, but if that is the case then whenever you > ask LC to create an empty item then LC should ensure there is a delimiter > after it. It's consistent. Empying the last item essentially deletes it. The terminating comma is retained because it belongs to the item before it. The last item beomes "1", and you replace that with 7. The item delimiter is a terminating character, not a divider, and it "belongs" to the text of the item before it. Lines are easier to grok: This is line 1 -- cr is part of line 1 This is line 2 -- cr is part of line 2 This is line 3 -- cr is part of line 3 If I put empty into the last line, that text and its terminator are removed: This is line 1 -- cr is part of line 1 This is line 2 -- cr is part of line 2 Here are three items: item 1, item 2, item 3, They work the same way. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 11 18:46:39 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 15:46:39 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 2:47 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > Lines are easier to grok: > > This is line 1 -- cr is part of line 1 > This is line 2 -- cr is part of line 2 > This is line 3 -- cr is part of line 3 > Yeah but if you put that text into a scrolling field then put the number lines of the field, you get 3 (which is correct according to your analogy), but I can click on line 4 of the field. You can argue one way or the other if it's consistent or not (and many people have), but it's definitely confusing to LC newcomers. I'm in favor of the change being suggested on the forum as long as there's a property to control which way it works; that way no code breaks and folks who think the existing way is inconsistent/confusing can choose to use the new way. Pete lcSQL Software From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 11 18:50:00 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 15:50:00 -0700 Subject: getting a timestamp (or other value) back from an SQL UPDATE statement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > UPDATE myindex SET tmstmp=NOW() RETURNING tmstmp; Just do SELECT tmstmp FROM myIndedx right after the UPDATE and before the END.and get rid of the RETURNING clause Pete lcSQL Software From pderocco at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 11 19:20:35 2013 From: pderocco at ix.netcom.com (Paul D. DeRocco) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 16:20:35 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com><062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com><5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com><5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com><792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com><5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com><52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com><225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com><520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com><17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu><2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu><5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com><52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > From: Peter Haworth > > On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 2:47 PM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > > > Lines are easier to grok: > > > > This is line 1 -- cr is part of line 1 > > This is line 2 -- cr is part of line 2 > > This is line 3 -- cr is part of line 3 > > > > Yeah but if you put that text into a scrolling field then put > the number > lines of the field, you get 3 (which is correct according to > your analogy), > but I can click on line 4 of the field. > > You can argue one way or the other if it's consistent or not (and many > people have), but it's definitely confusing to LC newcomers. I pointed that out about fifty messages back. ;-) I wonder if anyone actually relies on that ability. If not, perhaps THAT should be changed, since it appears to be the one glaring inconsistency that can't be resolved by "looking at things differently". -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco at ix.netcom.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Aug 11 20:05:05 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 10:05:05 +1000 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> On 12/08/2013, at 12:19 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > Has anyone looked at syncing a git repository through LC? Not LC projects -- I'm planning an app that has distributed data, and git seems like a reasonable way to manage that if I can reasonably control clone, pull, and push, and present the results to the user to resolve conflicts. Has anyone already written something like this? I think this would get complicated real fast. By distributed do you mean no server or simply a local copy of all your data? Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 11 19:57:40 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 16:57:40 -0700 Subject: getting a timestamp (or other value) back from an SQL UPDATE statement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > >> UPDATE myindex SET tmstmp=NOW() RETURNING tmstmp; > > > Just do SELECT tmstmp FROM myIndedx right after the UPDATE and before the > END.and get rid of the RETURNING clause That's what I'm doing right now--and trying to avoid. It gives me the full latency lag twice, at several hundred milliseconds each! -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 11 20:02:31 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 17:02:31 -0700 Subject: Turning off rendering VT as a return? Message-ID: <52082617.6060307@fourthworld.com> Before the big field rewrite a couple versions back, any Vertical Tab ("VT", ASCII 11) characters in a field just rendered as a non-printable character. But after the big field rewrite, VTs are now used as a way to provide return-like appearance within a field table, so now VTs have more or less the same visual appearance as CR. IIRC this was explained in the Release Notes for the version this change was introduced in, but despite my best effort to alert RunRev most of the details describing the new field behaviors are not in the current documentation set. So in short: Anyone here know how to turn off the rendering of VTs as returns so I can see only true ASCII 10s as the line breaks, like I've enjoyed for the last 25 years? TIA - -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web ____________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 11 20:26:33 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 17:26:33 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com><062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com><5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com><5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com><792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com><5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com><52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com><225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com><520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com><17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu><2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu><5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com><52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <161599983812.20130811172633@ahsoftware.net> Paul- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 4:20:35 PM, you wrote: > I wonder if anyone actually relies on that ability. If not, perhaps THAT > should be changed, since it appears to be the one glaring inconsistency that > can't be resolved by "looking at things differently". Jacque has pointed out on the web forum a couple of different ways in which she relies on the current implementation. And while I think that's taking advantage of a historical loophole which should be closed, that's just my opinion, and she does make a good case for defaulting to the current behavior so as not to break existing stacks. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 11 20:35:34 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 17:35:34 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> Jacque- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 2:47:18 PM, you wrote: > This is line 1 -- cr is part of line 1 > This is line 2 -- cr is part of line 2 > Here are three items: > item 1, > item 2, > item 3, > They work the same way. Yes, and with the same problems. The problems occur when you have a situation like This is line 1 This is line 2 -- there are still only two lines "1,2,3" -- this contains three items "1,2,3," -- this contains three items "1,2,3, " -- this contains four items -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Aug 11 20:57:12 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:57:12 -0400 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> References: <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: I still like Mark's idea of having a global property. There are a lot of us that started using HC waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back before v. 2.1 came along. Some have legacy stacks that we don't want to change (See Jacque) and some of us have no qualms fixing any lingering issues that might come up (like me). A global property lets everyone do it their own way. On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 8:35 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Jacque- > > Sunday, August 11, 2013, 2:47:18 PM, you wrote: > > > This is line 1 -- cr is part of line 1 > > This is line 2 -- cr is part of line 2 > > > Here are three items: > > > item 1, > > item 2, > > item 3, > > > They work the same way. > > Yes, and with the same problems. The problems occur when you have a > situation like > > This is line 1 > This is line 2 -- there are still only two lines > > "1,2,3" -- this contains three items > "1,2,3," -- this contains three items > "1,2,3, " -- this contains four items > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 11 21:05:26 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 18:05:26 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <71602316776.20130811180526@ahsoftware.net> Mike- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 5:57:12 PM, you wrote: > I still like Mark's idea of having a global property. I think Monte's right in that it makes more sense to make this a stack property rather than a global property. That way existing stacks don't have to be changed but you can make new stacks with the corrected behavior and they can coexist. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From gcanyon at gmail.com Sun Aug 11 21:07:23 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:07:23 -0500 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> I mean set up a project on GitHub (not sure if that can be done from LC), then use LC to: -- clone the repo -- make changes to the files locally -- pull and push to sync Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2013, at 7:05 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 12/08/2013, at 12:19 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> Has anyone looked at syncing a git repository through LC? Not LC projects -- I'm planning an app that has distributed data, and git seems like a reasonable way to manage that if I can reasonably control clone, pull, and push, and present the results to the user to resolve conflicts. Has anyone already written something like this? > > I think this would get complicated real fast. By distributed do you mean no server or simply a local copy of all your data? > > Cheers > > -- > M E R Goulding > Software development services > Bespoke application development for vertical markets > > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Aug 11 21:19:05 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:19:05 +1000 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <1F311133-FCEA-4A6E-8D90-B7BF9BF21363@sweattechnologies.com> On 12/08/2013, at 10:57 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > A global property lets everyone do it their own way. No it doesn't. What if you want to use one of Jacque's plugins? That's why I suggested a stack property just like HCAddressing... HCChunkBehavior or HCDelimiterCounting are my favourite choices for that. Anyway I'm trying to stay out of this a bit because I don't think it effects me very much. I really hate delimited data and avoid it as much as possible... worse is the mess people can get themselves into with multiple item delimiters... Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 11 21:22:47 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 18:22:47 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> References: <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <520838E7.50500@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > "1,2,3" -- this contains three items > "1,2,3," -- this contains three items > "1,2,3, " -- this contains four items Let's look at those strings from the point of view of what we might presume was that of the HyperTalk design team, but besting them by using Jacque's suggestion of the more appropriate "terminator" rather than the ambiguous "delimiter" - here we'll use "x" for any data that isn't a terminator, and "|" for "terminator: x|x|x -- this contains three items x|x|x| -- this contains three items x|x|x|x -- this contains four items Once we understand that delimiters are actually terminators, even empty items become easily graspable: x||x|x - this contains four items ...because what we're counting is any chunk that's terminated, either by the delimiter or by simply being the end of the string, even those elements whose value is empty. One simple solution would be to add "lineTerminator" and "itemTerminator" as synonyms for "lineDelimiter" and "itemDelimiter" respectively, and then the conceptual model fits what the engine does. We leave the "*delimter" tokens in place for us ol' timers, but emphasize "*terminator" for newcomers. A more complex solution was hinted at in a recent post by Klaus in the forum thread on this, in which apparently Mark Waddingham has been giving this a good deal of thought and has come up with a solution that obviates the issue altogether by introducing true lists, rather than just delimited strings, so there are no delimiter characters per se. I believe Lingo is one xTalk derivative that supported true lists, and many other VHLLs offer them too. Personally, I'd like to see both implemented, as each can be very useful for different tasks. If we get both of those (more accurately descriptive tokens and true lists), once folks get a chance to use them we can then evaluate the usefulness of bifurcating the community code base along the lines of those handlers which expect traditional terminators and those which use the new delimiter behavior dependent on a global setting. But I'd wager that if we had both very few scripters would be motivated to pursue this further. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 11 21:22:44 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 18:22:44 -0700 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> Message-ID: <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> Geoff- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 6:07:23 PM, you wrote: > I mean set up a project on GitHub (not sure if that can be done from LC), then use LC to: > -- clone the repo > -- make changes to the files locally > -- pull and push to sync Ah. OK - so there's a common remote repository for the files. All those operations can be shelled out easily. That's the way I deal with them. As long as you have remotes configured pushing and pulling can be done, but resolving conflicts may be a problem. It's not something I would expect to be done automatically, or something that I would trust even if it were. I shell out to gitk and kdiff3 for that. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 11 21:28:23 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 18:28:23 -0700 Subject: getting a timestamp (or other value) back from an SQL UPDATE statement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, well if that's really a problem, the only other way I can think of is calculate the timestamp in your LC script and hand it off to the update statement as a literal value instead of using NOW() Pete lcSQL Software On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > > >> UPDATE myindex SET tmstmp=NOW() RETURNING tmstmp; > > > > > > Just do SELECT tmstmp FROM myIndedx right after the UPDATE and before the > > END.and get rid of the RETURNING clause > > That's what I'm doing right now--and trying to avoid. It gives me the > full latency lag twice, at several hundred milliseconds each! > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Aug 11 21:52:14 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:52:14 +1000 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> Message-ID: <88B21B78-C672-4A81-836C-9A7A4E83E918@sweattechnologies.com> On 12/08/2013, at 11:07 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > I mean set up a project on GitHub (not sure if that can be done from LC), then use LC to: > -- clone the repo > -- make changes to the files locally > -- pull and push to sync If you have lots of people pulling and pushing to one remote you will have lots of conflicts to resolve... all of which will have to be resolved before the user can push by which time someone else may have pushed causing another conflict so it all starts again. Using a single remote that everyone has write access to is only really good for small teams. Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 11 22:04:42 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 19:04:42 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <520838E7.50500@fourthworld.com> References: <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520838E7.50500@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <153605872683.20130811190442@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 6:22:47 PM, you wrote: > x|x|x -- this contains three items > x|x|x| -- this contains three items unless, of course, the trailing space is considered part of the string, in which case that last line has four items. > x|x|x|x -- this contains four items The problem becomes more apparent when you think of file paths: set the itemDelimiter to "/" put the effective filename of this stack into tPath delete item -1 of tPath now if the delimiter char were really a terminator, it should remain with tPath. But it doesn't. So put "myFilename" after item -1 of tPath -- needs a terminator prefix: put "/myFilename" after tPath similarly, put "myFilename" after tPath -- needs a terminator prefix > One simple solution would be to add "lineTerminator" and > "itemTerminator" as synonyms for "lineDelimiter" and "itemDelimiter" > respectively, and then the conceptual model fits what the engine does. > We leave the "*delimter" tokens in place for us ol' timers, but > emphasize "*terminator" for newcomers. That's an interesting idea, but in that case I'd suggest that the new terms "lineTerminator" and "itemTerminator" do the right thing and just leave the *delimiter terms to atrophy away. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 11 22:19:23 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 19:19:23 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <153605872683.20130811190442@ahsoftware.net> References: <153605872683.20130811190442@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <5208462B.9050402@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Richard- > > Sunday, August 11, 2013, 6:22:47 PM, you wrote: > >> x|x|x -- this contains three items >> x|x|x| -- this contains three items > > unless, of course, the trailing space is considered part of the > string, in which case that last line has four items. > >> x|x|x|x -- this contains four items Right, which is why I also included this note: ...what we're counting is any chunk that's terminated, either by the delimiter or by simply being the end of the string... This also answers the question of deleting elements from terminated strings, since the end of a string is a de facto terminator (there simply ain't no more). So the current engine behavior with deleted items would seem both consistent with Jacque's definition and arguably rather efficient by removing the unneeded explicit terminator at the end of the string. >> One simple solution would be to add "lineTerminator" and >> "itemTerminator" as synonyms for "lineDelimiter" and "itemDelimiter" >> respectively, and then the conceptual model fits what the engine >> does. We leave the "*delimter" tokens in place for us ol' timers, >> but emphasize "*terminator" for newcomers. > > That's an interesting idea, but in that case I'd suggest that the new > terms "lineTerminator" and "itemTerminator" do the right thing and > just leave the *delimiter terms to atrophy away. Exactly. I was just being kind to the ol' timers. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 22:25:47 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 21:25:47 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> References: <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/13 7:35 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Yes, and with the same problems. The problems occur when you have a > situation like > > This is line 1 > This is line 2 -- there are still only two lines The engine says that's 3 lines, which is consistent with final terminators. > > "1,2,3" -- this contains three items > "1,2,3," -- this contains three items > "1,2,3, " -- this contains four items > That's consistent. The space is an item, and the last terminator is absent. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 22:31:06 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 21:31:06 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <520838E7.50500@fourthworld.com> References: <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520838E7.50500@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <520848EA.40703@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/13 8:22 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > One simple solution would be to add "lineTerminator" and > "itemTerminator" as synonyms for "lineDelimiter" and "itemDelimiter" > respectively, and then the conceptual model fits what the engine does. > We leave the "*delimter" tokens in place for us ol' timers, but > emphasize "*terminator" for newcomers. Wow, telepathy. That's *exactly* what I was thinking this afternoon. Add a synonym that calls it what it is, and let the older syntax deprecate. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 11 22:38:51 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 19:38:51 -0700 Subject: Turning off rendering VT as a return? In-Reply-To: <52082617.6060307@fourthworld.com> References: <52082617.6060307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <52084ABB.4040806@fourthworld.com> Earlier I wrote: > Before the big field rewrite a couple versions back, any Vertical > Tab ("VT", ASCII 11) characters in a field just rendered as a > non-printable character. > > But after the big field rewrite, VTs are now used as a way to provide > return-like appearance within a field table, so now VTs have more or > less the same visual appearance as CR. > > IIRC this was explained in the Release Notes for the version this > change was introduced in, but despite my best effort to alert RunRev > most of the details describing the new field behaviors are not in > the current documentation set. > > So in short: Anyone here know how to turn off the rendering of VTs > as returns so I can see only true ASCII 10s as the line breaks, like > I've enjoyed for the last 25 years? After prowling around my hard drive I found that the v5.5.4 docs are the most recent I can find which have Release Notes describing the new field features. Among the other critically important information there currently absent from the docs is this bit that answers my question: Explicit line-breaks in fields (5.5 DP2 ? experimental) The engine will now interpret a numToChar(11) character in a field paragraph as an explicit line- break when the (effective) dontWrap of the paragraph is false. This allows multiple ?lines? to be displayed within a single paragraph. The formattedText property has been updated to map any explicit line breaks to newlines. Note that since the vGrid property turns dontWrap on for the paragraph, using the line-break char in table paragraphs will have no effect. The Message Box doesn't have its dontwrap set, so there's no way to see the natural wrappings of your text there. As a workaround during development I've found you can simply add a field with dontWrap set to true and put any data you need to review there instead. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 22:48:51 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 21:48:51 -0500 Subject: Turning off rendering VT as a return? In-Reply-To: <52082617.6060307@fourthworld.com> References: <52082617.6060307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <52084D13.1030308@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/13 7:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > So in short: Anyone here know how to turn off the rendering of VTs as > returns so I can see only true ASCII 10s as the line breaks, like I've > enjoyed for the last 25 years? I don't think there's a way to do it outside of a bulk replace with some other nonprinting character. I've already had a use for the new visual line breaks, so was glad to see them. But I don't think they're optional. :( Maybe someone who's poking around in the engine would consider adding a toggle switch? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Aug 11 22:55:28 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 22:55:28 -0400 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <520848EA.40703@hyperactivesw.com> References: <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520838E7.50500@fourthworld.com> <520848EA.40703@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Monte, Mark, Yes, I think I like a stack/script property better, too. Great idea. Jacque and Richard... So you're basically thinking we should change words, not the behavior? Why not just change the documentation, then? In the meantime, if the behavior is to be left alone, there are a variety of functions (especially the database functions) that have to be fixed to make them work this way. Also remember that text editors don't behave this way, either. Empty 's at the end of a line still trigger a page break. That seems far more correct than having to figure out of a delimiter/terminator should be significant or not. Adding a list datatype (and true pointers) would both be great, but one of the things that has always made xTalk so awesome and amazing is way that datatypes are generally context-sensitive and implicit nearly everywhere. It's much less of a world where I have to tell the interpreter/compiler what I mean, or put .toString() everywhere, and more of it having to do just that little bit of work for me - in other words, it has to be just a bit smarter than the table I'm typing at right now. If, by creating more defined/restrictive datatypes I'm going more the direction of a traditional language, then LC loses something that, I believe, makes it extra special when deciding between it and something like Xojo. On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 10:31 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/11/13 8:22 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > One simple solution would be to add "lineTerminator" and >> "itemTerminator" as synonyms for "lineDelimiter" and "itemDelimiter" >> respectively, and then the conceptual model fits what the engine does. >> We leave the "*delimter" tokens in place for us ol' timers, but >> emphasize "*terminator" for newcomers. >> > > Wow, telepathy. That's *exactly* what I was thinking this afternoon. Add a > synonym that calls it what it is, and let the older syntax deprecate. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 11 23:05:16 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:05:16 -0700 Subject: Turning off rendering VT as a return? In-Reply-To: <52084D13.1030308@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52084D13.1030308@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <520850EC.7030702@fourthworld.com> J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/11/13 7:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> So in short: Anyone here know how to turn off the rendering of VTs as >> returns so I can see only true ASCII 10s as the line breaks, like I've >> enjoyed for the last 25 years? > > I don't think there's a way to do it outside of a bulk replace with some > other nonprinting character. > > I've already had a use for the new visual line breaks, so was glad to > see them. But I don't think they're optional. :( Maybe someone who's > poking around in the engine would consider adding a toggle switch? In my follow-up I found the answer: Explicit line-breaks in fields (5.5 DP2 ? experimental) The engine will now interpret a numToChar(11) character in a field paragraph as an explicit line- break when the (effective) dontWrap of the paragraph is false. This allows multiple ?lines? to be displayed within a single paragraph. The formattedText property has been updated to map any explicit line breaks to newlines. Note that since the vGrid property turns dontWrap on for the paragraph, using the line-break char in table paragraphs will have no effect. But this raises a question: In general I love this new ability to have multiple apparent lines in one physical paragraph. However, in my case these are particularly useful in lists with the vGrid set, which would give me something closer to HTML-style tables in which a given cell can contain multiple lines, e.g.: ----------------------------- r1item1 | r1item2a | r1item3 | r1item2b | | r2item2c | ----------------------------- r2item1 | r2item2a | r2item3 | r2item2b | ----------------------------- r3item1 | r3item2a | r3item3 ----------------------------- r4item1 | r4item2a | r4item3 | r4item2b | ----------------------------- So in my case it's showing the VTs when I don't want to see them (for which there's a workaround), and not showing them when I do want to see them (for which there's apparently no workaround). I could probably use a datagrid for that layout but in the project I need them for most I absolutely must use a single field. Should we consider a more explicit way to toggle the rendering of VTs, e.g.: set the showVerticalTabs of line 4 of fld 1 to true If this were an explicit attribute of the text run we could maintain backward compatibility by having it default to current behaviors, while still allowing us to change it when we need to. Any thoughts on the token name, or the functionality proposes? I could use this very soon - anyone here want to write it and submit a pull request? :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 23:07:23 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 22:07:23 -0500 Subject: Shell stdin/stdout Message-ID: <5208516B.7010206@hyperactivesw.com> I've been playing around with pngquant to optimize some pngs. It uses this syntax: usage: pngquant [options] [ncolors] [pngfile [pngfile ...]] I'm able to use it both in Terminal and with LiveCode's shell command. I pass it some options and a file name, and it makes a new optimized png file in the same folder. Now I want to do it via stdin/stdout. I want to pass it a file name on disk (or an image in a stack) and get back the binary data for the new image. The man page says this: "The output filename is the same as the input name except that it ends in "-fs8.png", "-or8.png" or your custom extension (unless the input is stdin, in which case the quantized image will go to stdout)." How would I use stdin/stdout? I tried passing it the binary data of an image in a stack but I get back "command not found." If I pass it a file path on disk it always writes a new file. Here's an example of a file-based command that works: put && "16" && into tCmd get shell(tCmd) The "it" variable is empty, and the new file appears on disk. I want to do this: put && "16" && (the text of img 1) into tCmd get shell(tCmd) -- get binary data back Or, if not the text of img 1, using the binary data of an image on disk would be okay too. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 11 23:10:23 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:10:23 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> Jacque- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 7:25:47 PM, you wrote: put "this is line 1" & cr into field 1 put "this is line 2" & cr & cr after field 1 put the number of lines in field 1 -- but there are actually four lines in field 1. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 11 23:24:09 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:24:09 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52085559.2070801@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > Jacque and Richard... > So you're basically thinking we should change words, not the behavior? Why > not just change the documentation, then? In the meantime, if the behavior > is to be left alone, there are a variety of functions (especially the > database functions) that have to be fixed to make them work this way. My own goal here, regardless of its merit or lack thereof, is simply to maintain compatibility with 25 years of code which was written to expect delimiters to act as terminators. As such, I wouldn't advocate deprecating the existing tokens, simply adding new ones that are clearer, and encouraging folks to use the news ones going forward. That should maintain the functionality of the db libs (and anything else ever written) even after the addition of the synonyms. > Also remember that text editors don't behave this way, either. Empty > 's at the end of a line still trigger a page break. That seems far > more correct than having to figure out of a delimiter/terminator should be > significant or not. LiveCode fields follow the same UI convention, but while the cursor is moved to a lower position when you hit the Return key, there still isn't any actual data there until you type something; the cursor's position allows you to add data, but is not data itself. I suppose we could consider this a philosophical matter, and as such it's likely that there will always be some disagreement about what's "best". But as an old friend likes to say, "Best is the enemy of results." One thing we can all agree on is the recognition that delimiters have been used as terminators in xTalks for decades, and all code written to date expects this if it deals with delimiters at all. The proposed stack property seems a good way to avoid bifurcating the community code base, and I certainly wouldn't argue if someone takes the time to do it. Mark Wieder seems well motivated; I'd say go for it, then everyone gets what they want so long as the default remains as it is now. And there's the rub: generations of newcomers would still have a segment of their population that isn't clear on the notion that delimiters are terminators. So completely independent of anything Mark might do to support those who don't like the current implementation, I still feel that more descriptive synonyms would be helpful. > Adding a list datatype (and true pointers) would both be great, but one of > the things that has always made xTalk so awesome and amazing is way that > datatypes are generally context-sensitive and implicit nearly everywhere. > It's much less of a world where I have to tell the interpreter/compiler > what I mean, or put .toString() everywhere, and more of it having to do > just that little bit of work for me - in other words, it has to be just a > bit smarter than the table I'm typing at right now. If, by creating more > defined/restrictive datatypes I'm going more the direction of a traditional > language, then LC loses something that, I believe, makes it extra special > when deciding between it and something like Xojo. I see true lists like arrays, in the sense that you have to go out of your way to load them and use them, but the benefits of doing so are compelling enough to be worth the effort. Like arrays, there are some data representations which just don't lend themselves well to delimited strings. So yes, we should continue to make strings more usable, by whatever means. But I think there's merit in sometimes also considering entirely new ways to solve problems. Which leads us to structs....but that's a story for another thread. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 23:25:17 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 22:25:17 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520838E7.50500@fourthworld.com> <520848EA.40703@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5208559D.7040001@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/13 9:55 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Also remember that text editors don't behave this way, either. Empty > 's at the end of a line still trigger a page break. That seems far > more correct than having to figure out of a delimiter/terminator should be > significant or not. Empty crs in LiveCode are also separate lines if there is no non-delimiter text preceding them. But what you're describing is a visual effect implemented by word processors (and LiveCode fields.) They place the insertion point after the character you just typed. If you just typed a cr, then the insertion point is placed after it -- and since a cr marks a line ending, the insertion point shows up where the next "line" would start -- even though there really isn't one yet. If you show invisible characters in a word processor, the cr is always placed at the end of the paragraph text, and is considered part of that paragraph. If you click after the cr terminator, the displacement of the cursor is visual only, indicating where your next character will display. I do sympathize with your database dilemma though, I'm just not sure how to solve it -- and I'm not good enough with databases to even make a guess. But I don't think it would be wise to alter a behavior that's been in place for 26 years. Maybe some creative thinking by folks who know more about it will happen. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 11 23:28:26 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:28:26 -0700 Subject: Shell stdin/stdout In-Reply-To: <5208516B.7010206@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5208516B.7010206@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <126610896732.20130811202826@ahsoftware.net> Jacque- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 8:07:23 PM, you wrote: > The "it" variable is empty, and the new file appears on disk. I want to > do this: > put && "16" && (the text of img 1) into tCmd > get shell(tCmd) -- get binary data back > Or, if not the text of img 1, using the binary data of an image on disk > would be okay too. Untested, but how about put && "16" && "<" && (the text of img 1) into tCmd get shell(tCmd) -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 11 23:32:12 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:32:12 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> References: <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <5208573C.7090901@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Jacque- > > Sunday, August 11, 2013, 7:25:47 PM, you wrote: > > put "this is line 1" & cr into field 1 > put "this is line 2" & cr & cr after field 1 > put the number of lines in field 1 > -- but there are actually four lines in field 1. With "x" as data and "|" as the terminator, the above gives us: x|x|| So if we keep in mind that: ...what we're counting is any chunk that's terminated, either by the delimiter or by simply being the end of the string... ...it still fits the engine's logic. Chunk expressions are independent of UI conventions; whether items or lines we should expect the same rules to apply. The position of the cursor is not data, merely a function of UI conventions for the placeholder where you can begin to add data if you choose. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 23:33:19 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 22:33:19 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/13 10:10 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Jacque- > > Sunday, August 11, 2013, 7:25:47 PM, you wrote: > > put "this is line 1" & cr into field 1 > put "this is line 2" & cr & cr after field 1 > put the number of lines in field 1 > -- but there are actually four lines in field 1. > No, there's only three lines, but the insertion point is placed after the text, where the next potential line will start. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 23:35:20 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 22:35:20 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <520857F8.6070306@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/13 10:33 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/11/13 10:10 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: >> Jacque- >> >> Sunday, August 11, 2013, 7:25:47 PM, you wrote: >> >> put "this is line 1" & cr into field 1 >> put "this is line 2" & cr & cr after field 1 >> put the number of lines in field 1 >> -- but there are actually four lines in field 1. >> > > No, there's only three lines, but the insertion point is placed after > the text, where the next potential line will start. > Actually, try this: put "this is line 1" & cr into field 1 put "this is line 2" & cr & cr after field 1 put the number of lines in field 1 select before last char of fld 1 Now you can see where the real end of the text is. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 11 23:40:03 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:40:03 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <186611593738.20130811204003@ahsoftware.net> Jacque- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 8:33:19 PM, you wrote: > No, there's only three lines, but the insertion point is placed after > the text, where the next potential line will start. OK. Got it. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 23:43:40 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 22:43:40 -0500 Subject: Shell stdin/stdout In-Reply-To: <126610896732.20130811202826@ahsoftware.net> References: <5208516B.7010206@hyperactivesw.com> <126610896732.20130811202826@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <520859EC.5000306@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/13 10:28 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Jacque- > > Sunday, August 11, 2013, 8:07:23 PM, you wrote: > >> The "it" variable is empty, and the new file appears on disk. I want to >> do this: > >> put && "16" && (the text of img 1) into tCmd >> get shell(tCmd) -- get binary data back > >> Or, if not the text of img 1, using the binary data of an image on disk >> would be okay too. > > Untested, but how about > > put && "16" && "<" && (the text of img 1) into tCmd > get shell(tCmd) > Thanks Mark, I had high hopes, but: /bin/sh: line 1: tCmd: command not found But if I pass it a real path on disk, the same command works. Only I get a file. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 23:45:21 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 22:45:21 -0500 Subject: Shell stdin/stdout In-Reply-To: <520859EC.5000306@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5208516B.7010206@hyperactivesw.com> <126610896732.20130811202826@ahsoftware.net> <520859EC.5000306@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52085A51.6090202@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/13 10:43 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/11/13 10:28 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: >> Jacque- >> >> Sunday, August 11, 2013, 8:07:23 PM, you wrote: >> >>> The "it" variable is empty, and the new file appears on disk. I want to >>> do this: >> >>> put && "16" && (the text of img 1) into tCmd >>> get shell(tCmd) -- get binary data back >> >>> Or, if not the text of img 1, using the binary data of an image on disk >>> would be okay too. >> >> Untested, but how about >> >> put && "16" && "<" && (the text of img 1) into tCmd >> get shell(tCmd) >> > > Thanks Mark, I had high hopes, but: > > /bin/sh: line 1: tCmd: command not found > > But if I pass it a real path on disk, the same command works. Only I get > a file. > Wait, I had a typo. When I fix it, it still doesn't work, but the error is different: /bin/sh: line 1: ??PNG : No such file or directory /bin/sh: line 2: : command not found -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 11 23:51:20 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 22:51:20 -0500 Subject: Shell stdin/stdout In-Reply-To: <520859EC.5000306@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5208516B.7010206@hyperactivesw.com> <126610896732.20130811202826@ahsoftware.net> <520859EC.5000306@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52085BB8.4010007@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/13 10:43 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/11/13 10:28 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: >> Jacque- >> >> Sunday, August 11, 2013, 8:07:23 PM, you wrote: >> >>> The "it" variable is empty, and the new file appears on disk. I want to >>> do this: >> >>> put && "16" && (the text of img 1) into tCmd >>> get shell(tCmd) -- get binary data back >> >>> Or, if not the text of img 1, using the binary data of an image on disk >>> would be okay too. >> >> Untested, but how about >> >> put && "16" && "<" && (the text of img 1) into tCmd >> get shell(tCmd) >> > > Thanks Mark, I had high hopes, but: > > /bin/sh: line 1: tCmd: command not found > > But if I pass it a real path on disk, the same command works. Only I get > a file. > But wait! There's more! If I do this, it does work: put && "16" && "<" && into tCmd I get binary back. :) Thank you, thank you. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Sun Aug 11 23:54:28 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 03:54:28 +0000 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> On 12/08/2013, at 01:33 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/11/13 10:10 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: >> Jacque- >> >> Sunday, August 11, 2013, 7:25:47 PM, you wrote: >> >> put "this is line 1" & cr into field 1 >> put "this is line 2" & cr & cr after field 1 >> put the number of lines in field 1 >> -- but there are actually four lines in field 1. >> > > No, there's only three lines, but the insertion point is placed after the text, where the next potential line will start. I agree with Mark that there are four lines there. The last one just happens to be empty. Terry... > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > Dr Terry Judd Senior Lecturer in Medical Education Medical Education Unit Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences The University of Melbourne From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 00:12:37 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 21:12:37 -0700 Subject: Shell stdin/stdout In-Reply-To: <52085BB8.4010007@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5208516B.7010206@hyperactivesw.com> <126610896732.20130811202826@ahsoftware.net> <520859EC.5000306@hyperactivesw.com> <52085BB8.4010007@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <82613547281.20130811211237@ahsoftware.net> Jacque- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 8:51:20 PM, you wrote: > But wait! There's more! If I do this, it does work: > put && "16" && "<" && into tCmd > I get binary back. :) Thank you, thank you. Another way to do it: put "cat" && && "| pngquant 16" into tCmd -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 00:20:10 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 21:20:10 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <5208462B.9050402@fourthworld.com> References: <153605872683.20130811190442@ahsoftware.net> <5208462B.9050402@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <60614000704.20130811212010@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 7:19:23 PM, you wrote: > Exactly. I was just being kind to the ol' timers. :) LOL. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 00:32:26 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 23:32:26 -0500 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > All those operations can be shelled out easily Ah, but if you want to be able to do this from an iPad? Possible, or pipe dream? On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Using a single remote that everyone has write access to is only really > good for small teams. This would likely be for teams from 5 to 50 or more, but there would be a large number of files, and actual conflicts would be unlikely. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 12 00:33:09 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 23:33:09 -0500 Subject: Shell stdin/stdout In-Reply-To: <82613547281.20130811211237@ahsoftware.net> References: <5208516B.7010206@hyperactivesw.com> <126610896732.20130811202826@ahsoftware.net> <520859EC.5000306@hyperactivesw.com> <52085BB8.4010007@hyperactivesw.com> <82613547281.20130811211237@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <52086585.6090203@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/13 11:12 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Jacque- > > Sunday, August 11, 2013, 8:51:20 PM, you wrote: > >> But wait! There's more! If I do this, it does work: > >> put && "16" && "<" && into tCmd > >> I get binary back. :) Thank you, thank you. > > Another way to do it: > > put "cat" && && "| pngquant 16" into tCmd > Cool. What's the pipe do? Is that like ">"? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 00:41:33 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 21:41:33 -0700 Subject: Shell stdin/stdout In-Reply-To: <52086585.6090203@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5208516B.7010206@hyperactivesw.com> <126610896732.20130811202826@ahsoftware.net> <520859EC.5000306@hyperactivesw.com> <52085BB8.4010007@hyperactivesw.com> <82613547281.20130811211237@ahsoftware.net> <52086585.6090203@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <65615283498.20130811214133@ahsoftware.net> Jacque- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 9:33:09 PM, you wrote: >> put "cat" && && "| pngquant 16" into tCmd > Cool. What's the pipe do? Is that like ">"? Yeah, sort of. It takes the output of the first command ("cat") that normally would go to stdout and redirects it (pipes it) into the stdin input of the second command ("pngquant"). -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 00:45:49 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 21:45:49 -0700 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <166615539746.20130811214549@ahsoftware.net> Geoff- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 9:32:26 PM, you wrote: > Ah, but if you want to be able to do this from an iPad? Possible, or pipe > dream? You keep adding more aspects to this proposal. I normally run away from projects like that. Next you'll want to add tail fins. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 12 00:52:46 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:52:46 +1000 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <627259CE-F75A-45AE-8F88-02730D85B8F9@sweattechnologies.com> Anything is possible (you would definitely need an external) but your starting to talk about doing a lot of work to hack a distributed database out of a source code management system. I would definitely look at other options. Does your data really need to be local? Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! On 12/08/2013, at 2:32 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > Ah, but if you want to be able to do this from an iPad? Possible, or pipe > dream? From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 01:17:26 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 22:17:26 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <6617436544.20130811221726@ahsoftware.net> Terry- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 8:54:28 PM, you wrote: > I agree with Mark that there are four lines there. The last one just happens to be empty. > Terry... I do think that's a matter of semantics of the visual display, though, and that's a different thing from the mechanics of how items, lines, words, chars, and tokens are counted. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Mon Aug 12 02:04:26 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 06:04:26 +0000 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <6617436544.20130811221726@ahsoftware.net> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> <6617436544.20130811221726@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <8887CD75-2602-4CA1-B6A9-563BA091E22C@unimelb.edu.au> On 12/08/2013, at 03:17 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Terry- > > Sunday, August 11, 2013, 8:54:28 PM, you wrote: > >> I agree with Mark that there are four lines there. The last one just happens to be empty. > >> Terry... > > I do think that's a matter of semantics of the visual display, though, > and that's a different thing from the mechanics of how items, lines, > words, chars, and tokens are counted. Agreed - for practical purposes it's only 3 - although I still can't get out of the habit of deleting the trailing delimiter from a constructed list before processing it in a repeat loop. Terry... > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > Dr Terry Judd Senior Lecturer in Medical Education Medical Education Unit Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences The University of Melbourne From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 08:32:26 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 07:32:26 -0500 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: <166615539746.20130811214549@ahsoftware.net> References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> <166615539746.20130811214549@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Well, I did start off with "Has anyone looked at syncing a git repository through LC?" Using shell commands is cheating ;-) Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2013, at 11:45 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Sunday, August 11, 2013, 9:32:26 PM, you wrote: > >> Ah, but if you want to be able to do this from an iPad? Possible, or pipe >> dream? > > You keep adding more aspects to this proposal. I normally run away > from projects like that. Next you'll want to add tail fins From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 08:47:11 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 07:47:11 -0500 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: <627259CE-F75A-45AE-8F88-02730D85B8F9@sweattechnologies.com> References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> <627259CE-F75A-45AE-8F88-02730D85B8F9@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Not necessarily, but responsiveness is key, and the data set is large. The target audience is developers , so git is likely to already be in their repertoire. Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2013, at 11:52 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Does your data really need to be local? From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 12:21:29 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 09:21:29 -0700 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> <166615539746.20130811214549@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <74657279791.20130812092129@ahsoftware.net> Geoff- Monday, August 12, 2013, 5:32:26 AM, you wrote: > Well, I did start off with "Has anyone looked at syncing a git > repository through LC?" Using shell commands is cheating ;-) Ah. OK. I would never dream of messing with git repositories behind its back. Too much can go wrong. I'm quite happy to hand tasks off to git and let it do what it does best. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 12:51:15 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 09:51:15 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <8887CD75-2602-4CA1-B6A9-563BA091E22C@unimelb.edu.au> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> <6617436544.20130811221726@ahsoftware.net> <8887CD75-2602-4CA1-B6A9-563BA091E22C@unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <71659065213.20130812095115@ahsoftware.net> Terry- Sunday, August 11, 2013, 11:04:26 PM, you wrote: > Agreed - for practical purposes it's only 3 - although I still > can't get out of the habit of deleting the trailing delimiter from a > constructed list before processing it in a repeat loop. I do too. And for that reason, neither of us would have code that would be affected by changing the way items and lines are counted. But there *is* other legacy code out there that does rely on the current behavior. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Aug 12 13:30:29 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 17:30:29 +0000 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <71659065213.20130812095115@ahsoftware.net> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> <6617436544.20130811221726@ahsoftware.net> <8887CD75-2602-4CA1-B6A9-563BA091E22C@unimelb.edu.au> <71659065213.20130812095115@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <40759322-834F-446D-90F9-889F12A4BE4A@byu.edu> On Aug 12, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Terry- > > Sunday, August 11, 2013, 11:04:26 PM, Terry Judd wrote: > >> Agreed - for practical purposes it's only 3 - although I still >> can't get out of the habit of deleting the trailing delimiter from a >> constructed list before processing it in a repeat loop. > > I do too. And for that reason, neither of us would have code that > would be affected by changing the way items and lines are counted. But > there *is* other legacy code out there that does rely on the current > behavior. You know how I get rid of trailing delimiters? put line 1 to -1 of tList into tList put item 1 to -1 of tItems into tItems Kills that dang dangling delimiter dead. Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 13:47:27 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 10:47:27 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <40759322-834F-446D-90F9-889F12A4BE4A@byu.edu> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> <6617436544.20130811221726@ahsoftware.net> <8887CD75-2602-4CA1-B6A9-563BA091E22C@unimelb.edu.au> <71659065213.20130812095115@ahsoftware.net> <40759322-834F-446D-90F9-889F12A4BE4A@byu.edu> Message-ID: <122662437669.20130812104727@ahsoftware.net> Devin- Monday, August 12, 2013, 10:30:29 AM, you wrote: > You know how I get rid of trailing delimiters? > put line 1 to -1 of tList into tList > put item 1 to -1 of tItems into tItems > Kills that dang dangling delimiter dead. Good one. I just opt for the chomp approach repeat while item -1 of tList is empty delete item -1 of tList end repeat -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 12 14:11:31 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:11:31 -0400 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <122662437669.20130812104727@ahsoftware.net> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> <6617436544.20130811221726@ahsoftware.net> <8887CD75-2602-4CA1-B6A9-563BA091E22C@unimelb.edu.au> <71659065213.20130812095115@ahsoftware.net> <40759322-834F-446D-90F9-889F12A4BE4A@byu.edu> <122662437669.20130812104727@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Mark, That won't work because LC won't recognize the last item as empty. Thus put "a," into goop delete item -1 of goop put goop will end up putting empty. I really want to fix this thing. On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Devin- > > Monday, August 12, 2013, 10:30:29 AM, you wrote: > > > You know how I get rid of trailing delimiters? > > > put line 1 to -1 of tList into tList > > > put item 1 to -1 of tItems into tItems > > > Kills that dang dangling delimiter dead. > > Good one. I just opt for the chomp approach > > repeat while item -1 of tList is empty > delete item -1 of tList > end repeat > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 14:50:51 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:50:51 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> <6617436544.20130811221726@ahsoftware.net> <8887CD75-2602-4CA1-B6A9-563BA091E22C@unimelb.edu.au> <71659065213.20130812095115@ahsoftware.net> <40759322-834F-446D-90F9-889F12A4BE4A@byu.edu> <122662437669.20130812104727@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <0666241886.20130812115051@ahsoftware.net> Mike- Monday, August 12, 2013, 11:11:31 AM, you wrote: > Mark, > That won't work because Yep. Typing without thinking on my end. Need. More. Coffee. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From abilitybf at att.net Mon Aug 12 14:56:14 2013 From: abilitybf at att.net (Joe Hamburger) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Corrupted Stack In-Reply-To: <5207DBAA.5020907@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1376153907.85596.YahooMailNeo@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52069D4E.1050107@fourthworld.com> <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5207DBAA.5020907@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1376333774.1867.YahooMailNeo@web181405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Jacqueline, You're probably right in that my stack isn't corrupted. I appreciate the help from Mark, Richard and you. All my stacks are set up for the same version of the software, so that isn't the problem. I really don't know what's causing the program to force quit. I've tried everything I can think of besides recreating the stack and perhaps the card containing the script that forces the application to quit. I'll keep working on it. When I come up with something that works, I'll let you know. Can you think of anything that would cause a force quit? I tried lock messages and that didn't help either. Joe Orlando, FL From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 15:08:19 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 12:08:19 -0700 Subject: Corrupted Stack In-Reply-To: <1376333774.1867.YahooMailNeo@web181405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1376153907.85596.YahooMailNeo@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52069D4E.1050107@fourthworld.com> <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5207DBAA.5020907@hyperactivesw.com> <1376333774.1867.YahooMailNeo@web181405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <107667289201.20130812120819@ahsoftware.net> Joe- Monday, August 12, 2013, 11:56:14 AM, you wrote: > Can you think of anything that would cause a force quit? I tried > lock messages and that didn't help either. You might possibly try putting the statement that puts (or at least tries to) into the field in a try/catch construct and see if that catches anything: try put "blahblahblah" into field "blah" of stack "blah" catch e answer e end try -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 15:32:51 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:32:51 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <40759322-834F-446D-90F9-889F12A4BE4A@byu.edu> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> <6617436544.20130811221726@ahsoftware.net> <8887CD75-2602-4CA1-B6A9-563BA091E22C@unimelb.edu.au> <71659065213.20130812095115@ahsoftware.net> <40759322-834F-446D-90F9-889F12A4BE4A@byu.edu> Message-ID: Another way: if char -1 of tList is the itemdelimiter then delete char -1 of tList For short lists, item 1 to -1 is faster. For long lists the above gets to be perhaps 5x faster. On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > > On Aug 12, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > > > Terry- > > > > Sunday, August 11, 2013, 11:04:26 PM, Terry Judd wrote: > > > >> Agreed - for practical purposes it's only 3 - although I still > >> can't get out of the habit of deleting the trailing delimiter from a > >> constructed list before processing it in a repeat loop. > > > > I do too. And for that reason, neither of us would have code that > > would be affected by changing the way items and lines are counted. But > > there *is* other legacy code out there that does rely on the current > > behavior. > > > You know how I get rid of trailing delimiters? > > put line 1 to -1 of tList into tList > > put item 1 to -1 of tItems into tItems > > Kills that dang dangling delimiter dead. > > Devin > > > Devin Asay > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 12 15:47:26 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 15:47:26 -0400 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> <6617436544.20130811221726@ahsoftware.net> <8887CD75-2602-4CA1-B6A9-563BA091E22C@unimelb.edu.au> <71659065213.20130812095115@ahsoftware.net> <40759322-834F-446D-90F9-889F12A4BE4A@byu.edu> Message-ID: Geoff, I haven't messed with it, but does "last char" have the same performance as "char -1"? On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > Another way: > > if char -1 of tList is the itemdelimiter then delete char -1 of tList > > For short lists, item 1 to -1 is faster. For long lists the above gets to > be perhaps 5x faster. > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > > > > > On Aug 12, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > > > > > Terry- > > > > > > Sunday, August 11, 2013, 11:04:26 PM, Terry Judd wrote: > > > > > >> Agreed - for practical purposes it's only 3 - although I still > > >> can't get out of the habit of deleting the trailing delimiter from a > > >> constructed list before processing it in a repeat loop. > > > > > > I do too. And for that reason, neither of us would have code that > > > would be affected by changing the way items and lines are counted. But > > > there *is* other legacy code out there that does rely on the current > > > behavior. > > > > > > You know how I get rid of trailing delimiters? > > > > put line 1 to -1 of tList into tList > > > > put item 1 to -1 of tItems into tItems > > > > Kills that dang dangling delimiter dead. > > > > Devin > > > > > > Devin Asay > > Office of Digital Humanities > > Brigham Young University > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 16:06:07 2013 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:06:07 -0600 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> <6617436544.20130811221726@ahsoftware.net> <8887CD75-2602-4CA1-B6A9-563BA091E22C@unimelb.edu.au> <71659065213.20130812095115@ahsoftware.net> <40759322-834F-446D-90F9-889F12A4BE4A@byu.edu> Message-ID: Just did a quick test with 1m lines getting the last char of each (for each line loop) using -1 and last, last is faster. 266 milliseconds for "last char.." and 318 for char -1 On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Geoff, > I haven't messed with it, but does "last char" have the same performance as > "char -1"? > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > > > Another way: > > > > if char -1 of tList is the itemdelimiter then delete char -1 of > tList > > > > For short lists, item 1 to -1 is faster. For long lists the above gets to > > be perhaps 5x faster. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > > > > > > > > On Aug 12, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > > > > > > > Terry- > > > > > > > > Sunday, August 11, 2013, 11:04:26 PM, Terry Judd wrote: > > > > > > > >> Agreed - for practical purposes it's only 3 - although I still > > > >> can't get out of the habit of deleting the trailing delimiter from a > > > >> constructed list before processing it in a repeat loop. > > > > > > > > I do too. And for that reason, neither of us would have code that > > > > would be affected by changing the way items and lines are counted. > But > > > > there *is* other legacy code out there that does rely on the current > > > > behavior. > > > > > > > > > You know how I get rid of trailing delimiters? > > > > > > put line 1 to -1 of tList into tList > > > > > > put item 1 to -1 of tItems into tItems > > > > > > Kills that dang dangling delimiter dead. > > > > > > Devin > > > > > > > > > Devin Asay > > > Office of Digital Humanities > > > Brigham Young University > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 12 16:18:54 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 13:18:54 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202C225.8060802@economy-x-talk.com> <0ABB12A8-1F1F-4E17-AC3A-785B17009FCF@sweattechnologies.com> <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <8D062884AF90EDA-10BC-3131@webmail-m214.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <195671524589.20130812131854@ahsoftware.net> Here's what I've ended up with. Thanks to everyone for all the discussion. I think it's a pretty elegant solution, doesn't change any existing scripts, and avoids conflicting stack properties. http://forums.runrev.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=16383&p=82961#p82961 -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 12 16:41:19 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 06:41:19 +1000 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> <166615539746.20130811214549@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <6D28071A-D875-4584-B056-2055D1FD9F94@sweattechnologies.com> On 12/08/2013, at 10:32 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > Well, I did start off with "Has anyone looked at syncing a git repository through LC?" Using shell commands is cheating ;-) I take back the external idea as git is GPL so you couldn't distribute it on the app store. Can you elaborate more on your data and what the users do with it? -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 12 16:42:58 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 15:42:58 -0500 Subject: Corrupted Stack In-Reply-To: <1376333774.1867.YahooMailNeo@web181405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1376153907.85596.YahooMailNeo@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52069D4E.1050107@fourthworld.com> <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5207DBAA.5020907@hyperactivesw.com> <1376333774.1867.YahooMailNeo@web181405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <520948D2.8050206@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/12/13 1:56 PM, Joe Hamburger wrote: > Can you think of anything that would cause a force quit? Does lLiveCode actually quit to the desktop? Or do you mean a hang, where the beachball spins forever and you have to manually force-quit? They're caused by different things. If it's the beachball hang, then the IDE is likely in an infinite loop (I've seen a few of those.) If it's a crash to the desktop, then there's an engine bug. Something is triggering it, so I'd still like to know the actual line of script you're using for that command. Is it this: put "this is the text" into fld of cd of stack ? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 18:15:27 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 17:15:27 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <111600524447.20130811173534@ahsoftware.net> <520847AB.8050305@hyperactivesw.com> <2609813084.20130811201023@ahsoftware.net> <5208577F.5030107@hyperactivesw.com> <233BE5A9-4EDE-4A3C-AF1C-FAAFA86C0CDA@unimelb.edu.au> <6617436544.20130811221726@ahsoftware.net> <8887CD75-2602-4CA1-B6A9-563BA091E22C@unimelb.edu.au> <71659065213.20130812095115@ahsoftware.net> <40759322-834F-446D-90F9-889F12A4BE4A@byu.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Just did a quick test with 1m lines getting the last char of each (for each > line loop) using -1 and last, last is faster. 266 milliseconds for "last > char.." and 318 for char -1 > Confirmed here. In my test I was getting about 160 milliseconds for last char, but about 200 milliseconds for char -1. Oddly enough, my items were 4 chars long, and char 4 took about 175 milliseconds. I also tried the test with much larger strings several hundred k characters long, and the -1 vs. last delta holds there as well. I know I sound like a broken record, but I dearly look forward to the day when I can simply write a language module so that "char -1" transparently becomes "the last char" behind the scenes. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 12 23:47:35 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 20:47:35 -0700 Subject: Issues with minimizing under OS X? Message-ID: <5209AC57.8010708@fourthworld.com> I have a report from one of my testers of the app's main window not being able to be restored when clicking on its icon in the Dock after having been minimized. I've been unable to reproduce this. I believe the user's system is OS X Mountain Lion (though I don't know for sure; awaiting details). Any of you ever seen anything like that? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Aug 13 03:07:19 2013 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:07:19 +0200 Subject: AW: Corrupted Stack In-Reply-To: <520948D2.8050206@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1376153907.85596.YahooMailNeo@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52069D4E.1050107@fourthworld.com> <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5207DBAA.5020907@hyperactivesw.com> <1376333774.1867.YahooMailNeo@web181405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <520948D2.8050206@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <001801ce97f3$c049eb40$40ddc1c0$@de> In the last years I had several issues, where LC forced quit in different situations and my first thought also was that my stacks were corrupted. In all cases my stacks were fine, but LC crashed with Unicode issues with German entities. E.G. the last one was that LC crashed every time I opened a stack on a Mac, which was edited on Windows before. At last it showed up that LCs Unicode handling crashed with German Umlaute in a stack title on Mac from version 5.5 to 6.0. What I wanted to say is that a stack corruption is very unlikely, but the field content (in combination with an engine bug) is more likely. Did you try to test with different (fresh) fields in the same stack and different content? Or testing with two fresh stacks, but the same field and content copied from the other stack? Always the same happening? Just my two cents Tiemo > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag > von J. Landman Gay > Gesendet: Montag, 12. August 2013 22:43 > An: How to use LiveCode > Betreff: Re: Corrupted Stack > > On 8/12/13 1:56 PM, Joe Hamburger wrote: > > > Can you think of anything that would cause a force quit? > > Does lLiveCode actually quit to the desktop? Or do you mean a hang, where > the beachball spins forever and you have to manually force-quit? > > They're caused by different things. If it's the beachball hang, then the > IDE is likely in an infinite loop (I've seen a few of those.) If it's a > crash to the desktop, then there's an engine bug. > > Something is triggering it, so I'd still like to know the actual line of > script you're using for that command. Is it this: > > put "this is the text" into fld of cd of stack > > > ? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pmbrig at gmail.com Tue Aug 13 08:23:19 2013 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 08:23:19 -0400 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <52085559.2070801@fourthworld.com> References: <52085559.2070801@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <47ACC675-10EA-4716-A337-C7986B2B5776@gmail.com> On Aug 11, 2013, at 11:24 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > But as an old friend likes to say, "Best is the enemy of results." As the editor said to the reporter, "I don't want it perfect, I want it Tuesday!" -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From abilitybf at att.net Tue Aug 13 08:33:45 2013 From: abilitybf at att.net (Joe Hamburger) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 05:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AW: Corrupted Stack In-Reply-To: <001801ce97f3$c049eb40$40ddc1c0$@de> References: <1376153907.85596.YahooMailNeo@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52069D4E.1050107@fourthworld.com> <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5207DBAA.5020907@hyperactivesw.com> <1376333774.1867.YahooMailNeo@web181405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <520948D2.8050206@hyperactivesw.com> <001801ce97f3$c049eb40$40ddc1c0$@de> Message-ID: <1376397225.20446.YahooMailNeo@web181403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Again, I'm self taught with LiveCode and not very experienced. I don't understand the Throw/Catch concept so I've never used it. I also don't know what unicode is. Thanks for the input Tiemo. I exclusively use Macs. So that was a nice try, but unfortunately not the answer. First some background. I'm using LC to run my printing business. I set up one stack for all the reports with each card being a different report. Would it be better to have each of these reports in a separate one card stack? Once I know the answer to that, I'll re-create my deposit card either in a separate new stack or start a replacement card in my report stack. Jacqueline, when I try to post a new deposit or invoice to my list of invoices stack from my reports stack I end up with LC quitting without saving. It goes to the desktop without a spinning beach ball. Sometimes, but not every time, I noticed the stack name changed to add the umlaute Tiemo spoke of. Here's another symptom I've had for a long time. Whenever I change something with the inspector, that becomes the top stack and I have to refuse to save it. I don't think that should ever happen. I apologize for this being such a long email. I'm so glad this resource is available for non-professional coders like myself. Joe Orlando, FL From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Aug 13 08:53:29 2013 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 14:53:29 +0200 Subject: AW: AW: Corrupted Stack In-Reply-To: <1376397225.20446.YahooMailNeo@web181403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1376153907.85596.YahooMailNeo@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52069D4E.1050107@fourthworld.com> <1376166443.324.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5207DBAA.5020907@hyperactivesw.com> <1376333774.1867.YahooMailNeo@web181405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <520948D2.8050206@hyperactivesw.com> <001801ce97f3$c049eb40$40ddc1c0$@de> <1376397225.20446.YahooMailNeo@web181403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002e01ce9824$1cb08c60$5611a520$@de> Hi Joe, I didn't meant that a unicode thing causes your crash, it was just an example for a "content-crash" and not being a stack corruption. What I would do is a systematic testing and excluding/including one cause after the other. First taking the same content with a new field in the same stack, second another one-word-test-content with the same field, third test content with a new field in a new stack etc. etc. to see where there is any relation to the crash in case you didn't checked all these cases yet. Tiemo Its not crash relating, if you have one stack with different cards or different stacks with one card, just different designs. I would stay with your one stack multiple cards design. > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag > von Joe Hamburger > Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. August 2013 14:34 > An: How to use LiveCode > Betreff: Re: AW: Corrupted Stack > > Hi Again, > > I'm self taught with LiveCode and not very experienced. I don't understand > the Throw/Catch concept so I've never used it. I also don't know what > unicode is. > > Thanks for the input Tiemo. I exclusively use Macs. So that was a nice try, > but unfortunately not the answer. > > First some background. I'm using LC to run my printing business. I set up > one stack for all the reports with each card being a different report. > Would it be better to have each of these reports in a separate one card > stack? > > Once I know the answer to that, I'll re-create my deposit card either in a > separate new stack or start a replacement card in my report stack. > > Jacqueline, when I try to post a new deposit or invoice to my list of > invoices stack from my reports stack I end up with LC quitting without > saving. It goes to the desktop without a spinning beach ball. > > Sometimes, but not every time, I noticed the stack name changed to add the > umlaute Tiemo spoke of. > > Here's another symptom I've had for a long time. Whenever I change > something with the inspector, that becomes the top stack and I have to > refuse to save it. I don't think that should ever happen. > > I apologize for this being such a long email. I'm so glad this resource is > available for non-professional coders like myself. > > Joe > Orlando, FL > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Tue Aug 13 10:41:47 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:41:47 -0500 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: <6D28071A-D875-4584-B056-2055D1FD9F94@sweattechnologies.com> References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> <166615539746.20130811214549@ahsoftware.net> <6D28071A-D875-4584-B056-2055D1FD9F94@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > I take back the external idea as git is GPL so you couldn't distribute it > on the app store. Can you elaborate more on your data and what the users do > with it? > > Sure, it's just a distributed project management tool, with developers as a common target. Distributed data is to make it fast and responsive, git makes it so that developers don't actually have to use it -- instead they can just pull the repo and stay in their favorite text editor/command line. The data is mostly text, but could be styled, so that's an interesting challenge (to make it accessible to command line users). In addition there could be images, which might or might not make sense to use with git. I know it's possible to use it with any file, albeit that there are no diffs for images, etc. I'm going to look at github to see if they have an API. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 13 12:06:20 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:06:20 -0700 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> <166615539746.20130811214549@ahsoftware.net> <6D28071A-D875-4584-B056-2055D1FD9F94@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <161742770137.20130813090620@ahsoftware.net> Geoff- Tuesday, August 13, 2013, 7:41:47 AM, you wrote: > Sure, it's just a distributed project management tool, with developers as a > common target. Trying to recreate Pivotal Tracker? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From cmsheffield at icloud.com Tue Aug 13 13:34:03 2013 From: cmsheffield at icloud.com (Chris Sheffield) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 11:34:03 -0600 Subject: data grid on retina display Message-ID: <62BD549B-3486-4FC8-970C-69B3FA1B4B64@icloud.com> What's the best way to deal with scaling a data grid for a retina display iPad? In a past app I never could get it to work quite right, so I finally gave up and created to separate data grids and hide/display the correct one depending on the device. Monte, can your mApp plugin handle a data grid? How about if it's wrapped in your data grid scroller? I haven't tried yet, thought I'd ask first before I spend the time. Thanks, Chris From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 13 13:56:45 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:56:45 -0400 Subject: data grid on retina display In-Reply-To: <62BD549B-3486-4FC8-970C-69B3FA1B4B64@icloud.com> References: <62BD549B-3486-4FC8-970C-69B3FA1B4B64@icloud.com> Message-ID: Chris, I'm doing this now, using Monte's datagrid scroller, by the way. I've done the same thing you did, where I have a Retina and non-retina DG. I haven't spent the time to fix the headers for Retina, yet, though. On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > What's the best way to deal with scaling a data grid for a retina display > iPad? In a past app I never could get it to work quite right, so I finally > gave up and created to separate data grids and hide/display the correct one > depending on the device. > > Monte, can your mApp plugin handle a data grid? How about if it's wrapped > in your data grid scroller? I haven't tried yet, thought I'd ask first > before I spend the time. > > Thanks, > Chris > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From cmsheffield at icloud.com Tue Aug 13 14:04:55 2013 From: cmsheffield at icloud.com (Chris Sheffield) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:04:55 -0600 Subject: data grid on retina display In-Reply-To: References: <62BD549B-3486-4FC8-970C-69B3FA1B4B64@icloud.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Mike. Are you by chance getting an error from the data grid library when running your app? I've only tested in the simulator so far, but I'm getting an error when my card with the data grid first loads. Any action performed on the data grid (a tap, for example) also produces an error. Not sure what's going on. Chris On Aug 13, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Chris, > I'm doing this now, using Monte's datagrid scroller, by the way. I've done > the same thing you did, where I have a Retina and non-retina DG. I haven't > spent the time to fix the headers for Retina, yet, though. > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > >> What's the best way to deal with scaling a data grid for a retina display >> iPad? In a past app I never could get it to work quite right, so I finally >> gave up and created to separate data grids and hide/display the correct one >> depending on the device. >> >> Monte, can your mApp plugin handle a data grid? How about if it's wrapped >> in your data grid scroller? I haven't tried yet, thought I'd ask first >> before I spend the time. >> >> Thanks, >> Chris >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 13 14:09:38 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 14:09:38 -0400 Subject: data grid on retina display In-Reply-To: References: <62BD549B-3486-4FC8-970C-69B3FA1B4B64@icloud.com> Message-ID: Nope, I have a bunch of grids for different purposes on different cards (and in different apps) and all are behaving the way I would expect. On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > Thanks, Mike. > > Are you by chance getting an error from the data grid library when running > your app? I've only tested in the simulator so far, but I'm getting an > error when my card with the data grid first loads. Any action performed on > the data grid (a tap, for example) also produces an error. Not sure what's > going on. > > Chris > > On Aug 13, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > Chris, > > I'm doing this now, using Monte's datagrid scroller, by the way. I've > done > > the same thing you did, where I have a Retina and non-retina DG. I > haven't > > spent the time to fix the headers for Retina, yet, though. > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Chris Sheffield >wrote: > > > >> What's the best way to deal with scaling a data grid for a retina > display > >> iPad? In a past app I never could get it to work quite right, so I > finally > >> gave up and created to separate data grids and hide/display the correct > one > >> depending on the device. > >> > >> Monte, can your mApp plugin handle a data grid? How about if it's > wrapped > >> in your data grid scroller? I haven't tried yet, thought I'd ask first > >> before I spend the time. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Chris > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From gcanyon at gmail.com Tue Aug 13 14:57:02 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:57:02 -0500 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: <161742770137.20130813090620@ahsoftware.net> References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> <166615539746.20130811214549@ahsoftware.net> <6D28071A-D875-4584-B056-2055D1FD9F94@sweattechnologies.com> <161742770137.20130813090620@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Trying to recreate Pivotal Tracker? *Much* better than that. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 13 15:19:51 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:19:51 -0700 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> <166615539746.20130811214549@ahsoftware.net> <6D28071A-D875-4584-B056-2055D1FD9F94@sweattechnologies.com> <161742770137.20130813090620@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <154754381727.20130813121951@ahsoftware.net> Geoff- Tuesday, August 13, 2013, 11:57:02 AM, you wrote: > On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: >> Trying to recreate Pivotal Tracker? > *Much* better than that. Pivotal's got a new UI in beta, and it's got some nice group management features. Some of which will probably only be rolled out in an Enterprise version, though. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From gcanyon at gmail.com Tue Aug 13 15:44:05 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 14:44:05 -0500 Subject: git integration, but not of LC projects In-Reply-To: <154754381727.20130813121951@ahsoftware.net> References: <8E305C60-CB95-4671-9780-BCE3267E53B6@gmail.com> <167288A7-AD4C-437A-9D0C-A8B073897A59@sweattechnologies.com> <6048CB95-4364-4EBF-B606-1C41704B8C15@gmail.com> <34603354716.20130811182244@ahsoftware.net> <166615539746.20130811214549@ahsoftware.net> <6D28071A-D875-4584-B056-2055D1FD9F94@sweattechnologies.com> <161742770137.20130813090620@ahsoftware.net> <154754381727.20130813121951@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Pivotal's got a new UI in beta, and it's got some nice group > management features. Some of which will probably only be rolled out in > an Enterprise version, though. > Interesting. I'm talking with a developer friend of mine who uses pivotal, I'll have to ask him about it. This came about because I was talking with someone who was considering building their own system, and I pish-poshed that and said, "there are at least several dozen systems available, the probability that you'll think of something unique and amazing is approximately zero." And of course, later that night I realized that I had an interface in mind that is (for the environments I've worked in) freakin' awesome, and (oddly enough) nothing like anything that I've seen. Further, in talking through it with my developer friend, he's really excited about the low-level aspects we've discussed. I haven't used Pivotal, but I've followed them pretty much since they first announced they were going to share with the world. I've used HEAT, Jira, FogBugz, Bugzilla, Liquid Planner, Smartsheet, spreadsheets, OmniPlanner, MS Project, several custom systems (three of which I built) and I'm familiar with several dozen others. There is nothing like what I'm planning -- not even close. From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 13 16:13:55 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:13:55 -0700 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets Message-ID: So I picked up one of the inexpensive Chinese tablets mentioned on the list, and so far it is turing out to be pretty decent, aside from this: http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tablet_capture.png Um, anyone? Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From coiin at verizon.net Tue Aug 13 16:26:39 2013 From: coiin at verizon.net (Colin Holgate) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 16:26:39 -0400 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1F2B996C-FFC8-4303-BD43-1A622496A74D@verizon.net> It?s a calendar reminder, celebrating this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanabata Now, for a mental exercise, given that I don?t know Chinese at all, how did I figure that out? I didn?t ask anyone else for help. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 13 16:27:47 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 16:27:47 -0400 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scott, Ha!!! Just click "ok". ;-p ~Roger On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > So I picked up one of the inexpensive Chinese tablets mentioned on the > list, and so far it is turing out to be pretty decent, aside from this: > > http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tablet_capture.png > > Um, anyone? > > Thanks & Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 13 16:38:44 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 16:38:44 -0400 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Which tablet did you get? Is it a Pipo? When I got mine, I did a factory reset to purge the bloatware, but then had to set the language back to English. ~Roger On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > So I picked up one of the inexpensive Chinese tablets mentioned on the > list, and so far it is turing out to be pretty decent, aside from this: > > http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tablet_capture.png > > Um, anyone? > > Thanks & Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 13 16:46:44 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:46:44 -0700 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm sure the options read in English: Reformat | Transmit Credit Card Info Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/13/13 1:27 PM, "Roger Eller" wrote: >Scott, > >Ha!!! Just click "ok". ;-p > >~Roger > > >On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Scott Rossi >wrote: > >> So I picked up one of the inexpensive Chinese tablets mentioned on the >> list, and so far it is turing out to be pretty decent, aside from this: >> >> http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tablet_capture.png >> >> Um, anyone? >> >> Thanks & Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 13 16:49:51 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:49:51 -0700 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: <1F2B996C-FFC8-4303-BD43-1A622496A74D@verizon.net> References: <1F2B996C-FFC8-4303-BD43-1A622496A74D@verizon.net> Message-ID: <175759781227.20130813134951@ahsoftware.net> Colin- Tuesday, August 13, 2013, 1:26:39 PM, you wrote: > Now, for a mental exercise, given that I don?t know Chinese at > all, how did I figure that out? I didn?t ask anyone else for help. Given that the calendar is on the screen, I googled for "August 13 2013 Chinese calendar". -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 13 16:50:40 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:50:40 -0700 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <166759830450.20130813135040@ahsoftware.net> Scott- Tuesday, August 13, 2013, 1:46:44 PM, you wrote: > I'm sure the options read in English: > Reformat | Transmit Credit Card Info I think that's the Nigerian version. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 13 16:58:09 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:58:09 -0700 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Roger: I got the Vido Mini One, based on your recommendation I think (so I hold you responsible). Tried to remove the Chinese apps here, wasn't sure if the only option is rooting. Most I've disabled for the moment. Do you have any idea how modified the OS is on these tablets, if at all? It's hard to know if some of the quirky behavior is Android (assumed) or the Chinese install. Best Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/13/13 1:38 PM, "Roger Eller" wrote: >Which tablet did you get? Is it a Pipo? When I got mine, I did a factory >reset to purge the bloatware, but then had to set the language back to >English. > >~Roger > > >On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Scott Rossi >wrote: > >> So I picked up one of the inexpensive Chinese tablets mentioned on the >> list, and so far it is turing out to be pretty decent, aside from this: >> >> http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tablet_capture.png >> >> Um, anyone? >> >> Thanks & Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 13 17:05:35 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 16:05:35 -0500 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520A9F9F.20609@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/13/13 3:13 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > So I picked up one of the inexpensive Chinese tablets mentioned on the > list, and so far it is turing out to be pretty decent, aside from this: > > http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tablet_capture.png > > Um, anyone? Cute. :) On my tablet(s), in system settings, I can change the language to English in the "Personal -> Language & input" section. Or do you mean, only the dialogs are in Chinese? I wonder if you move to Shanghai if you'll get English dialogs. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pmbrig at gmail.com Tue Aug 13 17:11:53 2013 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 17:11:53 -0400 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: <520A9F9F.20609@hyperactivesw.com> References: <520A9F9F.20609@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <35CCF0A5-E05C-439E-BF0D-095722C10748@gmail.com> On Aug 13, 2013, at 5:05 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On my tablet(s), in system settings, I can change the language to English in the "Personal -> Language & input" section. As long as all the existing preference options aren't currently listed in Chinese?. What's Chinese for "English"? -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 13 17:28:05 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 17:28:05 -0400 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I do love the prices! I don't have the Vido Mini, but the reviews have been really good. My Pipo M2 has the same screen dimensions as an iPad 9.7". The Android OS seems fairly standard, but they tend to bundle some Chinese apps and Widgets. The only quirk I've run into with the Pipo is the camera image is mirrored in some apps. I've heard one good report from this list about the Vido Mini. If you are still pleased after a few weeks, please report back here and I'll get one too. :) ~Roger On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Hi Roger: > > I got the Vido Mini One, based on your recommendation I think (so I hold > you responsible). > > Tried to remove the Chinese apps here, wasn't sure if the only option is > rooting. Most I've disabled for the moment. > > Do you have any idea how modified the OS is on these tablets, if at all? > It's hard to know if some of the quirky behavior is Android (assumed) or > the Chinese install. > > Best Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/13/13 1:38 PM, "Roger Eller" wrote: > > >Which tablet did you get? Is it a Pipo? When I got mine, I did a factory > >reset to purge the bloatware, but then had to set the language back to > >English. > > > >~Roger > > > > > >On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Scott Rossi > >wrote: > > > >> So I picked up one of the inexpensive Chinese tablets mentioned on the > >> list, and so far it is turing out to be pretty decent, aside from this: > >> > >> http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tablet_capture.png > >> > >> Um, anyone? > >> > >> Thanks & Regards, > >> > >> Scott Rossi > >> Creative Director > >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Aug 13 00:06:31 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 14:06:31 +1000 Subject: Issues with minimizing under OS X? In-Reply-To: <5209AC57.8010708@fourthworld.com> References: <5209AC57.8010708@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <83AEBDFF-AE3E-4883-9AF5-E8B36C342B5E@sweattechnologies.com> On 13/08/2013, at 1:47 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Any of you ever seen anything like that? I think I may have seen something like that with Mail so it may be a general ML bug but you might want to test what happens if something blocking is going on... Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Aug 13 20:29:48 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:29:48 +1000 Subject: data grid on retina display In-Reply-To: <62BD549B-3486-4FC8-970C-69B3FA1B4B64@icloud.com> References: <62BD549B-3486-4FC8-970C-69B3FA1B4B64@icloud.com> Message-ID: On 14/08/2013, at 3:34 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > Monte, can your mApp plugin handle a data grid? How about if it's wrapped in your data grid scroller? I haven't tried yet, thought I'd ask first before I spend the time. Yes, mApp scales the template then resets the datagrid. You just need to ensure that any fixed pixel sizes you use in your datagrid layout script are multiplied by mAppPixelDensity(). I've written a couple of very datagrid heavy mobile apps with mApp. The worst problem with datagrids on mobile at the moment is the only way to do smooth scrolling is expand them to full height inside the scroller wrapper which of course means a delay if you have long lists. Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Tue Aug 13 22:01:03 2013 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:01:03 +0800 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5202C90F.4050206@economy-x-talk.com> <062089FB-A7C0-4DFC-9574-0B6351813D0A@sweattechnologies.com> <5202CE1F.8090305@economy-x-talk.com> <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 5:47 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > It's consistent. Yes, and so is EVERY bug that's ever plagued a program. destroyStack acts consistently but it doesn't mean that it's a logical name for the property > Empying the last item essentially deletes it. You didn't ask for the item to be deleted, why aren't all items deleted when they are emptied, why would new users expect LC to do that? Not only that, delete has it's own unexpected (but consistent) idiosyncrasies. The terminating comma is retained because it belongs to the item before it. > The last item beomes "1", and you replace that with 7. > > The item delimiter is a terminating character, not a divider, and it > "belongs" to the text of the item before it. > Using the synonym 'terminator' just further confuses the whole issue. To me a terminator is a "must have" if it doesn't have one it's invalid. i.e. an opening quote must be terminated with a closing quote, an opening bracket must be terminated with a closing bracket. If an item in LC requires a comma as a terminator, in your words the terminator belongs to the PREVIOUS data, then 1,2,3, = is a 3 item list 1,2,3 = is a 2 item list followed by invalid data because there is no terminator Now I don't want to have LC behave that way, I like the fact that LC recognises "1,2,3" as a 3 item list, I just wish it would be logical enough to recognise ",2," as a 3 item list with 2 empty items. Enter the following in the Message Box: (9 lines) put "1,2,3,,,6" into tStore put tStore into tStore2 put tStore & " - my 6 item list contains " & the number of items of tStore & " items" into msg put empty into item 6 of tStore put cr & tStore & " - using EMPTY changes my 6 item list to " & the number of items of tStore & " items" after msg delete item 6 of tStore2 put cr & tStore2 & " - using DELETE changes my 6 item list to " & the number of items of tStore2 & " items" after msg put item 1 to -1 of tStore2 into tStore2 put cr & tStore2 & " - trying to fix it with 'ITEM 1 to -1 further mangles my data down to " & the number of items of tStore2 & " items" after msg Whilst I appreciate the need to maintain functionality with legacy code, it doesn't change the fact that the current behaviour of emptying and deleting items is illogical as it is a sure fire way of ensuring someone will spend hours, if not days, trying to figure why, emptying item 6 of a list will 100, or 1000, or a million times leave their list the same length, but every now and then the data is mangled. And with delete, which most times will only delete the one item you asked it to, but sometimes it will reduce your list by 2 items. And what IS inconsistent is the fact that no other program I work with behaves this way. If I import "1,2,3,4,,6," into a spreadsheet I end up with 1 row of 7 cells. Exactly the same if I export data from a spreadsheet or DB; if the last cell of a row is empty/NUL then the last visible character will be the delimiter/terminator. To put that into current jargon, LC does not follow industry best practice. To me it is bizarre that LC allows you to very easily create empty items left, right and centre, but you have to jump through all sorts of hoops with additional code if you need empty last items. But worst still is the fact that ANY empty item can become a liability because if there's any chance at all that that empty item will become the 2nd last item in a list where the last item is deleted you now have mangled data. It's more bizarre than destroyStack From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Aug 13 22:38:11 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 02:38:11 +0000 Subject: Fwd: [OT] Language of Tablets References: Message-ID: <72D0B5A2-1F64-4CAA-B437-A3DA95A132A0@byu.edu> Got this from my friend who is a professor of Chinese. I'd click the left one (OK). Devin Begin forwarded message: It is a welcome message: "[company name] reminds you of today's date" and two buttons bow saying "ok" and "open software" On Aug 13, 2013, at 2:25 PM, "Devin Asay" > wrote: Dana, This message came on an email list I'm on. The guy is getting an alert in Chinese. Any advice for him? Devin Begin forwarded message: From: Scott Rossi > Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets Date: August 13, 2013 2:13:55 PM MDT To: LiveCode Mail List > Reply-To: How to use LiveCode > So I picked up one of the inexpensive Chinese tablets mentioned on the list, and so far it is turing out to be pretty decent, aside from this: http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tablet_capture.png Um, anyone? Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University http://university.livecode.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 13 22:42:51 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 19:42:51 -0700 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: <72D0B5A2-1F64-4CAA-B437-A3DA95A132A0@byu.edu> Message-ID: Ha, thanks Devin. Somehow I dismissed the dialog (or it dismissed itself) so I'm good. And my financial information is safely on its way to China. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/13/13 7:38 PM, "Devin Asay" wrote: >Got this from my friend who is a professor of Chinese. I'd click the left >one (OK). > >Devin > > >Begin forwarded message: > > >It is a welcome message: "[company name] reminds you of today's date" and >two buttons bow saying "ok" and "open software" > >On Aug 13, 2013, at 2:25 PM, "Devin Asay" >> wrote: > >Dana, > >This message came on an email list I'm on. The guy is getting an alert in >Chinese. Any advice for him? > >Devin > >Begin forwarded message: > >From: Scott Rossi > >Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets >Date: August 13, 2013 2:13:55 PM MDT >To: LiveCode Mail List >> >Reply-To: How to use LiveCode >> > >So I picked up one of the inexpensive Chinese tablets mentioned on the >list, and so far it is turing out to be pretty decent, aside from this: > >http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tablet_capture.png > >Um, anyone? > >Thanks & Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > >Devin Asay >Learn to code with LiveCode University >http://university.livecode.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 13 22:45:37 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 19:45:37 -0700 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <143781127252.20130813194537@ahsoftware.net> Scott- Tuesday, August 13, 2013, 7:42:51 PM, you wrote: > Ha, thanks Devin. Somehow I dismissed the dialog (or it dismissed itself) > so I'm good. And my financial information is safely on its way to China. LOL. What? You think it wasn't there already? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 13 23:22:15 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 22:22:15 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <520AF7E7.3090900@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/13/13 9:01 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > Now I don't want to have LC behave that way, I like the fact that LC > recognises "1,2,3" as a 3 item list, I just wish it would be logical enough > to recognise ",2," as a 3 item list with 2 empty items. Mark Waddingham explains much better than I did why things work the way they do. He elaborates further in later posts in the thread. It's worth a read, starting here: The current behavior appears to be the most sensible and robust. Mark Wieder's proposed addition is currently under discussion. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From capellan2000 at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 00:07:03 2013 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 21:07:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops Message-ID: <1376453223375-4668727.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi all, If I use the message box with a fld selected, this script works perfectly: set the tabstops of the selobj to "250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50" If I use the IDE's Field Properties palette to set the tab stops (choose Table among the list of properties) Tab Stops: 250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50 The IDE hangs and LiveCode crash... but this works perfectly in the Properties palette: Tab Stops: 250,330,340,420,500,580,590,600,610,660 Why exists two different input methods for the tabstops property? Does exists a fix for the IDE? Thanks in advance Alejandro -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/IDE-versus-MSG-Box-Field-Tabstops-tp4668727.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Aug 14 00:28:21 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 00:28:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <1376453223375-4668727.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1376453223375-4668727.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <8D066BDD76A0047-1C04-281E3@webmail-m255.sysops.aol.com> Hi, I set those stops in the properties palette without issue. LC 5.5.4, OSX 10.6.8. So I am not sure what you are seeing. And there are always several ways to do things in LC. But are you saying that changing the actual values of the tabStops prevents the hang? Craig -----Original Message----- From: Alejandro Tejada To: use-revolution Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 12:08 am Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops Hi all, If I use the message box with a fld selected, this script works perfectly: set the tabstops of the selobj to "250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50" If I use the IDE's Field Properties palette to set the tab stops (choose Table among the list of properties) Tab Stops: 250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50 The IDE hangs and LiveCode crash... but this works perfectly in the Properties palette: Tab Stops: 250,330,340,420,500,580,590,600,610,660 Why exists two different input methods for the tabstops property? Does exists a fix for the IDE? Thanks in advance Alejandro -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/IDE-versus-MSG-Box-Field-Tabstops-tp4668727.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From capellan2000 at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 00:40:48 2013 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 21:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <8D066BDD76A0047-1C04-281E3@webmail-m255.sysops.aol.com> References: <1376453223375-4668727.post@n4.nabble.com> <8D066BDD76A0047-1C04-281E3@webmail-m255.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1376455248872-4668729.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Craig, dunbarx wrote > I set those stops in the properties palette without issue. > LC 5.5.4, OSX 10.6.8. So I am not sure what you are seeing. > > And there are always several ways to do things in LC. > But are you saying that changing the actual values of the > tabStops prevents the hang? Looks like the IDE expects that Tab Stops are written like this: 250,330,340,420,500,580,590,600,610,660 not like this: 250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50 If this is the correct way to write Tab stops in the IDE, then I expect an error message but not that the application hangs and crash. Try by yourself (with no other stack opened) In a new stack, create a text field and using the properties palette, set the Tab stops to: 250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50 Tell us if your IDE does not hangs and crash. Thanks in advance. Al -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/IDE-versus-MSG-Box-Field-Tabstops-tp4668727p4668729.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Aug 14 01:55:22 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 22:55:22 -0700 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: <143781127252.20130813194537@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On 8/13/13 7:45 PM, "Mark Wieder" wrote: >Scott- > >Tuesday, August 13, 2013, 7:42:51 PM, you wrote: > >> Ha, thanks Devin. Somehow I dismissed the dialog (or it dismissed >>itself) >> so I'm good. And my financial information is safely on its way to >>China. > >LOL. What? You think it wasn't there already? Wait for it: "Slow boat to China." [ rimshot ] Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From yvescoppe at skynet.be Wed Aug 14 02:15:20 2013 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:15:20 +0200 Subject: LC, applescript and mail.app Message-ID: <68C36089-2A8F-49DE-A699-3655CADF9A5C@skynet.be> Hi list, For mac users I have a text formatted with html tags in a variable tVar when I write set the htmlText of fld "test" to tVar : OK when I write an applescript to send the text per mail tell application "Mail" set newMessage to (make new outgoing message at end of outgoing messages with properties {subject:xx, content:tVar) end tell the text appears in the mail but with the tags the text ??, not in the formatted style How can I resolve this ? Thanks. Greetings. Yves COPPE yvescoppe at skynet.be From zryip.theslug at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 03:52:10 2013 From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:52:10 +0200 Subject: LC, applescript and mail.app In-Reply-To: <68C36089-2A8F-49DE-A699-3655CADF9A5C@skynet.be> References: <68C36089-2A8F-49DE-A699-3655CADF9A5C@skynet.be> Message-ID: Hi Yves, According to the Mail applescript's dictionary, the content property only accepts RTF content. 2 ways for doing what you want: 1. RTF put the rtfText of fld "test" to tVar tell application "Mail" set newMessage to (make new outgoing message at end of outgoing messages with properties {subject:xx, content:tVar}) end tell 2. Or with applescript, using the HTML content property of the outgoing message set the htmlText of fld "test" to tVar tell application "Mail" set newMessage to (make new outgoing message at end of outgoing messages with properties {subject:xx, html content:tVar}) end tell Best Regards, On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Yves COPPE wrote: > Hi list, > > > For mac users > > I have a text formatted with html tags in a variable tVar > when I write > set the htmlText of fld "test" to tVar : OK > when I write an applescript to send the text per mail > > tell application "Mail" > set newMessage to (make new outgoing message at end of outgoing > messages with properties {subject:xx, content:tVar) > end tell > > the text appears in the mail but with the tags > the text ??, not in the formatted style > > How can I resolve this ? > > Thanks. > > Greetings. > > Yves COPPE > yvescoppe at skynet.be > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- -Zryip TheSlug- wish you the best! 8) http://www.aslugontheroad.com From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 14 04:15:08 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:15:08 +0200 Subject: LC, applescript and mail.app In-Reply-To: <68C36089-2A8F-49DE-A699-3655CADF9A5C@skynet.be> References: <68C36089-2A8F-49DE-A699-3655CADF9A5C@skynet.be> Message-ID: <520B3C8C.5000605@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Yves, I had this problem too. I noticed that Mail automatically converts any diacritics to HTML to make sure that they are read correctly on PC's. Just use standard MacRoman and all will be fine. However, I would be very interested in knowing whether Zryip's solution works for you. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/14/2013 08:15, Yves COPPE wrote: > Hi list, > > > For mac users > > I have a text formatted with html tags in a variable tVar > when I write > set the htmlText of fld "test" to tVar : OK > when I write an applescript to send the text per mail > > tell application "Mail" > set newMessage to (make new outgoing message at end of outgoing messages with properties {subject:xx, content:tVar) > end tell > > the text appears in the mail but with the tags > the text ??, not in the formatted style > > How can I resolve this ? > > Thanks. > > Greetings. > > Yves COPPE > yvescoppe at skynet.be From yvescoppe at skynet.be Wed Aug 14 04:30:59 2013 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:30:59 +0200 Subject: LC, applescript and mail.app In-Reply-To: <520B3C8C.5000605@economy-x-talk.com> References: <68C36089-2A8F-49DE-A699-3655CADF9A5C@skynet.be> <520B3C8C.5000605@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Hi, thanks for the good idea; the text appears without html flags but ? as plain text, not formatted, without returns, bold text, ? no any other idea ? Le 14 ao?t 2013 ? 10:15, Mark Schonewille a ?crit : > Hi Yves, > > I had this problem too. I noticed that Mail automatically converts any diacritics to HTML to make sure that they are read correctly on PC's. Just use standard MacRoman and all will be fine. > > However, I would be very interested in knowing whether Zryip's solution works for you. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi > > Fill out this survey please > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ > > On 8/14/2013 08:15, Yves COPPE wrote: >> Hi list, >> >> >> For mac users >> >> I have a text formatted with html tags in a variable tVar >> when I write >> set the htmlText of fld "test" to tVar : OK >> when I write an applescript to send the text per mail >> >> tell application "Mail" >> set newMessage to (make new outgoing message at end of outgoing messages with properties {subject:xx, content:tVar) >> end tell >> >> the text appears in the mail but with the tags >> the text ??, not in the formatted style >> >> How can I resolve this ? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Greetings. >> >> Yves COPPE >> yvescoppe at skynet.be > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Amicalement. Yves COPPE yvescoppe at skynet.be From yvescoppe at skynet.be Wed Aug 14 05:03:38 2013 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:03:38 +0200 Subject: LC, applescript and mail.app In-Reply-To: References: <68C36089-2A8F-49DE-A699-3655CADF9A5C@skynet.be> <520B3C8C.5000605@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <76052C6C-CEC6-4E3C-9F73-2E058F5D2E75@skynet.be> Hi I did another test set the clipboardData["HTML"] to tVar and then, I paste myself the text in a mail.app message and I get a good formatted text. Is it possible to do the same via applescript (to avoid having to do it manually) Le 14 ao?t 2013 ? 10:30, Yves COPPE a ?crit : > Hi, > > thanks for the good idea; the text appears without html flags > but ? as plain text, not formatted, without returns, bold text, ? > > no any other idea ? > > > Le 14 ao?t 2013 ? 10:15, Mark Schonewille a ?crit : > >> Hi Yves, >> >> I had this problem too. I noticed that Mail automatically converts any diacritics to HTML to make sure that they are read correctly on PC's. Just use standard MacRoman and all will be fine. >> >> However, I would be very interested in knowing whether Zryip's solution works for you. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> >> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering >> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer >> KvK: 50277553 >> >> Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com >> >> Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi >> >> Fill out this survey please >> http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ >> >> On 8/14/2013 08:15, Yves COPPE wrote: >>> Hi list, >>> >>> >>> For mac users >>> >>> I have a text formatted with html tags in a variable tVar >>> when I write >>> set the htmlText of fld "test" to tVar : OK >>> when I write an applescript to send the text per mail >>> >>> tell application "Mail" >>> set newMessage to (make new outgoing message at end of outgoing messages with properties {subject:xx, content:tVar) >>> end tell >>> >>> the text appears in the mail but with the tags >>> the text ??, not in the formatted style >>> >>> How can I resolve this ? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Greetings. >>> >>> Yves COPPE >>> yvescoppe at skynet.be >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > Amicalement. > > Yves COPPE > yvescoppe at skynet.be > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Amicalement. Yves COPPE yvescoppe at skynet.be From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 08:03:48 2013 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 20:03:48 +0800 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <520AF7E7.3090900@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <520AF7E7.3090900@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the Link, an excellent discussion. Marks Waddingham's statement: If you want to be able to represent a nullable string list of any number of > empty items from 0 > is like saying: If you want to be able to represent a nullable array of any number of empty keys from 0 ??? If you put empty into an Array, it is no longer an array. IMO once you get below two items you no longer have a List. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:22 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > The current behavior appears to be the most sensible and robust. > > I'm sorry, I just can't agree, and whilst I'd happily argue a billion Chinese can be wrong, in this case I think Microsoft, Apple, mySQL, Oracle, postgreSQL, SQLite and I'm sure a bunch more all think ",2," is a List of 3 data items. Maybe I spend too much time with spreadsheets and dbs. In the Message Box: put ",2,3,,,,,,9," into tStore put "My List = " & tStore & cr into msg repeat with x = the number of items of tStore down to 1 if (item x of tStore is empty) then --100 lines of code here put "item " & x & " is empty" & cr after msg else --100 lines of code here put "item " & x & " is not empty" & cr after msg end if --100 lines of code here put item 1 to -1 of tStore into tStore --Devin's suggestion end repeat put "My List = " & tStore after msg Then change the 9 to empty and run the script again. Notice how all the intermediate steps give the correct answer, it's only at the end you discover your List has been mangled. I just wonder how many man hours have been lost tracking down bugs that are the result of the unexpected disappearance of list items. I'll contend that if 26+ yrs ago the HC Engineers decided a List must have a minimum of 1 delimiter and therefore 2 items, be they empty or not, this discussion would never have come up, no one would argue, 'hey, I want to put empty into a bunch of items and have them still be counted as an item unless the item is the last item in which case I want LC to delete the item even though there is a command for delete but I didn't use it'. I very much like Mark Wieder's proposal. I also like how he's debunked speculation as to imminent failure if empty last items were actually counted as an item. On the other hand it's pretty easy to prove that LC's current bipolar treatment of items regularly trips up new users. From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Aug 14 08:43:52 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:43:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <1376455248872-4668729.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1376453223375-4668727.post@n4.nabble.com> <8D066BDD76A0047-1C04-281E3@webmail-m255.sysops.aol.com> <1376455248872-4668729.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <8D0670310C29EF4-F14-2802D@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Alejandro. I just did (250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50) on another machine. No problems. Are you saying that only increasing values of tabStops are stable in your setup? I cannot see any other pattern in what you said worked, as opposed to what seems to crash LC. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Alejandro Tejada To: use-revolution Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 12:41 am Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops Hi Craig, dunbarx wrote > I set those stops in the properties palette without issue. > LC 5.5.4, OSX 10.6.8. So I am not sure what you are seeing. > > And there are always several ways to do things in LC. > But are you saying that changing the actual values of the > tabStops prevents the hang? Looks like the IDE expects that Tab Stops are written like this: 250,330,340,420,500,580,590,600,610,660 not like this: 250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50 If this is the correct way to write Tab stops in the IDE, then I expect an error message but not that the application hangs and crash. Try by yourself (with no other stack opened) In a new stack, create a text field and using the properties palette, set the Tab stops to: 250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50 Tell us if your IDE does not hangs and crash. Thanks in advance. Al -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/IDE-versus-MSG-Box-Field-Tabstops-tp4668727p4668729.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 09:35:10 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:35:10 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <520AF7E7.3090900@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <9DB3DD9F-FEA9-4E8E-A2F6-C93D5CB0CF0B@gmail.com> Wouldn't this mean that: the number of items of "test" -- puts zero And by extension: the number of words of "test" -- puts zero the number of lines of "test" -- puts zero Sent from my iPad On Aug 14, 2013, at 7:03 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > If you put empty into an Array, it is no longer an array. IMO once you get > below two items you no longer have a List. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 14 09:56:02 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 06:56:02 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <1376455248872-4668729.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1376455248872-4668729.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <520B8C72.8080208@fourthworld.com> Alejandro wrote: > Looks like the IDE expects that Tab Stops > are written like this: > 250,330,340,420,500,580,590,600,610,660 > not like this: > 250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50 > > If this is the correct way to write Tab stops > in the IDE, then I expect an error message > but not that the application hangs and crash. > > Try by yourself (with no other stack opened) > In a new stack, create a text field and > using the properties palette, set the Tab stops > to: 250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50 > > Tell us if your IDE does not hangs and crash. FWIW, LC recently introduced a new property, the tabWidths, which will accept those values. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 14 09:58:35 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:58:35 +0200 Subject: LC, applescript and mail.app In-Reply-To: References: <68C36089-2A8F-49DE-A699-3655CADF9A5C@skynet.be> <520B3C8C.5000605@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <3A193F6D-1897-4169-917E-24F189465948@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Yves, This is the short version of the AppleScript I use: set mailText to "****" set thisSubject to "Test E-Mail" set thisEmail to "test at test.xyz" using terms from application "Mail" tell application "Mail" set theAccount to "Name of Your Mail Account" set theNewMessage to make new outgoing message with properties {account:theAccount, subject:thisSubject, content:mailText, visible:false} tell theNewMessage make new to recipient at end with properties {address:thisEmail} set sender to "Your Name " end tell send theNewMessage end tell end using terms from and this is a LiveCode script, assuming that the AppleScript is in a field (normally I'd use a property) and the body text is also in a field: on mouseUp put fld "AppleScript" into myAppleScript put fld "Body Text" into myBodyText replace quote with backslash & quote in myBodyText replace cr with backslash & "n" in myBodyText replace "****" with myBodyText in myAppleScript do myAppleScript as AppleScript put the result into rslt if rslt is not empty then beep answer error rslt end if end mouseUp Careful: if you run this script, it *will* send an e-mail. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. On 14 aug 2013, at 10:30, Yves COPPE wrote: > Hi, > > thanks for the good idea; the text appears without html flags > but ? as plain text, not formatted, without returns, bold text, ? > > no any other idea ? > From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Aug 14 10:16:04 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520B8C72.8080208@fourthworld.com> References: <1376455248872-4668729.post@n4.nabble.com> <520B8C72.8080208@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Richard. ..."FWIW, LC recently introduced a new property, the tabWidths, which will accept those values." Are you implying that the tabStop list that Alejandro posted is somehow not acceptable? I like the "tabwidths", which is simpler to get my head around than the "tabStops", which requires just a little more effort to compose. But he is hanging LC with that particular set of stops. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Richard Gaskin To: use-livecode Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 9:56 am Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops Alejandro wrote: > Looks like the IDE expects that Tab Stops > are written like this: > 250,330,340,420,500,580,590,600,610,660 > not like this: > 250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50 > > If this is the correct way to write Tab stops > in the IDE, then I expect an error message > but not that the application hangs and crash. > > Try by yourself (with no other stack opened) > In a new stack, create a text field and > using the properties palette, set the Tab stops > to: 250,80,10,80,80,80,10,10,10,50 > > Tell us if your IDE does not hangs and crash. FWIW, LC recently introduced a new property, the tabWidths, which will accept those values. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 14 10:22:37 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:22:37 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <520AF7E7.3090900@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52e13dba-d12b-472a-882d-7953bf565c53@email.android.com> Kay C Lan wrote: >Thanks for the Link, an excellent discussion. > >Marks Waddingham's statement: > >If you want to be able to represent a nullable string list of any >number of >> empty items from 0 >> > >is like saying: > >If you want to be able to represent a nullable array of any number of >empty >keys from 0 ??? > >If you put empty into an Array, it is no longer an array. IMO once you >get >below two items you no longer have a List. No, the difference between strings and lists or arrays is pretty much his point. Given the limitations of strings, the trailing (or implied) delimiter is required, otherwise it is impossible to represent a string of zero items. His solution is to implement a different structure that is more similar to real lists in other languages, which do act as you describe because they aren't strings. If the documentation were updated to include the two basic rules he gives , new users probably wouldn't have the problems you mention. One difference between LiveCode and the other apps you list is that you're an end user in those, and all you see is the output. It's likely that under the hood they aren't using strings to calculate item counts either. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 14 10:28:57 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <9DB3DD9F-FEA9-4E8E-A2F6-C93D5CB0CF0B@gmail.com> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <520AF7E7.3090900@hyperactivesw.com> <9DB3DD9F-FEA9-4E8E-A2F6-C93D5CB0CF0B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <419c927f-f082-4fb7-b877-76dcc6b08539@email.android.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: >Wouldn't this mean that: > > the number of items of "test" -- puts zero > >And by extension: > > the number of words of "test" -- puts zero > the number of lines of "test" -- puts zero . And the number of items in empty is one. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 14 10:31:56 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:31:56 +0200 Subject: LC, applescript and mail.app In-Reply-To: <76052C6C-CEC6-4E3C-9F73-2E058F5D2E75@skynet.be> References: <68C36089-2A8F-49DE-A699-3655CADF9A5C@skynet.be> <520B3C8C.5000605@economy-x-talk.com> <76052C6C-CEC6-4E3C-9F73-2E058F5D2E75@skynet.be> Message-ID: <520B94DC.7070900@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Yves, keystroke "v" using command down will paste the text and keystroke tab will move the text insertion point to the next field or text area. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/14/2013 11:03, Yves COPPE wrote: > Hi > > I did another test > > set the clipboardData["HTML"] to tVar > > and then, I paste myself the text in a mail.app message > and I get a good formatted text. > Is it possible to do the same via applescript (to avoid having to do it manually) > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 14 10:34:49 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:34:49 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> dunbarx wrote: > Richard. > ..."FWIW, LC recently introduced a new property, the tabWidths, which will > accept those values." > > Are you implying that the tabStop list that Alejandro posted is somehow not acceptable? I have to admit that I've had so much going on in my office that I haven't followed this discussion in detail. But I suspect that the problem stems from a feature in the IDE which may not have complete error-checking. The tabstops property requires absolute metrics from the left edge of the control; that is, each item is the complete measure from that edge, e.g.: 100,150,225 Recognizing how onerous this can be, RunRev recently added the tabwidths property to allow us to specify only the widths, without having to add up the widths for each value, e.g.: 100,50,75 Perhaps the IDE team recognize this onerousness long before the engine team had a chance to address it with the new tabWidths property, and wrote the Inspector in a way that effectively allows you to enter what we now call tabWidths when setting the tabStops, translating them into true tabStop values when the property is actually set in the control. If that hunch is correct, perhaps certain sequences of values trip up that scripted translation, causing the errant behavior noted. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp Wed Aug 14 10:39:20 2013 From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 23:39:20 +0900 Subject: [OT] Language of Tablets In-Reply-To: <1F2B996C-FFC8-4303-BD43-1A622496A74D@verizon.net> References: <1F2B996C-FFC8-4303-BD43-1A622496A74D@verizon.net> Message-ID: <520B9698.6050501@tkf.att.ne.jp> If not asking anyone else means not googling, etc., then I'm stumped -- how did you figure it out? Tim Selander Tokyo, Japan On 8/14/13 5:26 AM, Colin Holgate wrote: > It?s a calendar reminder, celebrating this: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanabata > > Now, for a mental exercise, given that I don?t know Chinese at all, how did I figure that out? I didn?t ask anyone else for help. > > > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 14 12:17:46 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:17:46 -0700 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <520AF7E7.3090900@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <118829856904.20130814091746@ahsoftware.net> Kay- Wednesday, August 14, 2013, 5:03:48 AM, you wrote: > I very much like Mark Wieder's proposal. I also like how he's debunked > speculation as to imminent failure if empty last items were actually > counted as an item. On the other hand it's pretty easy to prove that LC's > current bipolar treatment of items regularly trips up new users. Thaks, Kay. But Jacque is correct in that the current implementation is robust. And has been for a quarter of a century. It is also internally consistent within the definition that a delimiter separates items *unless the last item is empty*. And there's a body of code that does rely on the way things work now. We can't change that. Jacque and I more often than not have different ways of coding any given problem (this is a good thing), and I call on her expertise when I've got my developer blinders on because I know she'll come up with something that will cause me to re-evaluate my assumptions. What I've settled on here is a simple alternative that provides a more logical (IMO) way of describing items in a string and doesn't change the body of legacy code. I think it's important to think about implementing this now that we're at a critical point in LiveCode's development, as the language is about to be exposed to a much larger community who don't have years of experience dealing with the stumbling blocks that we've all come to work around. The fewer glitches we have in the language ("this me?") the easier it will be to get a wider acceptance of xtalk and thus everybody wins. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Wed Aug 14 12:46:53 2013 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:46:53 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: "FWIW, LC recently introduced a new property, the tabWidths, which will accept those values." - Richard And I can finally drop my columnsToTabStops and TabStopsToColumns handlers... On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > dunbarx wrote: > > Richard. >> ..."FWIW, LC recently introduced a new property, the tabWidths, which will >> accept those values." >> >> Are you implying that the tabStop list that Alejandro posted is somehow >> not acceptable? >> > > I have to admit that I've had so much going on in my office that I haven't > followed this discussion in detail. > > But I suspect that the problem stems from a feature in the IDE which may > not have complete error-checking. > > The tabstops property requires absolute metrics from the left edge of the > control; that is, each item is the complete measure from that edge, e.g.: > > 100,150,225 > > Recognizing how onerous this can be, RunRev recently added the tabwidths > property to allow us to specify only the widths, without having to add up > the widths for each value, e.g.: > > 100,50,75 > > Perhaps the IDE team recognize this onerousness long before the engine > team had a chance to address it with the new tabWidths property, and wrote > the Inspector in a way that effectively allows you to enter what we now > call tabWidths when setting the tabStops, translating them into true > tabStop values when the property is actually set in the control. > > If that hunch is correct, perhaps certain sequences of values trip up that > scripted translation, causing the errant behavior noted. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Aug 14 12:49:54 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 12:49:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Richard. I agree. I find tabwidths are much more straightforward than tabstops. With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and sinister in his getup. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Richard Gaskin To: use-livecode Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 10:35 am Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops dunbarx wrote: > Richard. > ..."FWIW, LC recently introduced a new property, the tabWidths, which will > accept those values." > > Are you implying that the tabStop list that Alejandro posted is somehow not acceptable? I have to admit that I've had so much going on in my office that I haven't followed this discussion in detail. But I suspect that the problem stems from a feature in the IDE which may not have complete error-checking. The tabstops property requires absolute metrics from the left edge of the control; that is, each item is the complete measure from that edge, e.g.: 100,150,225 Recognizing how onerous this can be, RunRev recently added the tabwidths property to allow us to specify only the widths, without having to add up the widths for each value, e.g.: 100,50,75 Perhaps the IDE team recognize this onerousness long before the engine team had a chance to address it with the new tabWidths property, and wrote the Inspector in a way that effectively allows you to enter what we now call tabWidths when setting the tabStops, translating them into true tabStop values when the property is actually set in the control. If that hunch is correct, perhaps certain sequences of values trip up that scripted translation, causing the errant behavior noted. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 14 13:24:19 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 12:24:19 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/14/13 11:49 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number > might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular > string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two > machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and > sinister in his getup. I found early on that if I had the project browser showing, setting properties in the older property inspector would cause a crash sometimes. Later I found out there was a bug in the new project browser that caused that, but I'd already got into the habit of not showing it any more. I haven't had crashes since I turned it off, and I don't know if the bug's been fixed since then because I haven't turned it back on. Maybe the OP had both browsers showing and hit the same bug. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 14 13:34:25 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:34:25 -0400 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had single-digit model numbers. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:24 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/14/13 11:49 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > > With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number >> might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular >> string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two >> machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and >> sinister in his getup. >> > > I found early on that if I had the project browser showing, setting > properties in the older property inspector would cause a crash sometimes. > Later I found out there was a bug in the new project browser that caused > that, but I'd already got into the habit of not showing it any more. I > haven't had crashes since I turned it off, and I don't know if the bug's > been fixed since then because I haven't turned it back on. > > Maybe the OP had both browsers showing and hit the same bug. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Aug 14 13:39:17 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Field Tabstops oddity (was IDE vs MSG...) In-Reply-To: <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8D0672C55787694-F14-2A533@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> It seems that when an anomalous string for tabStops is set, LC uses a hybrid of tabStops and tabWidths. I have the following tabStops in a table field (named f55"): "20,10,80". It would appear that the second stop is to the left of the first stop. Something similar to this has crashed LC with at least one user. For me, though, LC seems to set the first tabStop at 20, then sets a tabWidth of 10, and finally the last tabStop at 80. on mouseUp set the tabstops of fld "f55" to "20,10,80" -- hybrid tabs wait until the mouseclick set the tabwidths of fld "f55" to "20,10,80" --expands to expected values end mouseUp Feature or bug? Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: dunbarx To: use-livecode Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 12:50 pm Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops Richard. I agree. I find tabwidths are much more straightforward than tabstops. With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and sinister in his getup. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Richard Gaskin To: use-livecode Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 10:35 am Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops dunbarx wrote: > Richard. > ..."FWIW, LC recently introduced a new property, the tabWidths, which will > accept those values." > > Are you implying that the tabStop list that Alejandro posted is somehow not acceptable? I have to admit that I've had so much going on in my office that I haven't followed this discussion in detail. But I suspect that the problem stems from a feature in the IDE which may not have complete error-checking. The tabstops property requires absolute metrics from the left edge of the control; that is, each item is the complete measure from that edge, e.g.: 100,150,225 Recognizing how onerous this can be, RunRev recently added the tabwidths property to allow us to specify only the widths, without having to add up the widths for each value, e.g.: 100,50,75 Perhaps the IDE team recognize this onerousness long before the engine team had a chance to address it with the new tabWidths property, and wrote the Inspector in a way that effectively allows you to enter what we now call tabWidths when setting the tabStops, translating them into true tabStop values when the property is actually set in the control. If that hunch is correct, perhaps certain sequences of values trip up that scripted translation, causing the errant behavior noted. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Aug 14 13:43:01 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <8D0672CDB143C15-F14-2A5A1@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Hmmm. I will give 2-1 odds, payable in LC tokens, for each year older you are than I. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Mike Kerner To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 1:35 pm Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had single-digit model numbers. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:24 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/14/13 11:49 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > > With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number >> might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular >> string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two >> machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and >> sinister in his getup. >> > > I found early on that if I had the project browser showing, setting > properties in the older property inspector would cause a crash sometimes. > Later I found out there was a bug in the new project browser that caused > that, but I'd already got into the habit of not showing it any more. I > haven't had crashes since I turned it off, and I don't know if the bug's > been fixed since then because I haven't turned it back on. > > Maybe the OP had both browsers showing and hit the same bug. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 14 13:53:30 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:53:30 -0700 Subject: Field Tabstops oddity (was IDE vs MSG...) In-Reply-To: <8D0672C55787694-F14-2A533@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D0672C55787694-F14-2A533@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <520BC41A.9080502@fourthworld.com> dunbarx wrote: > It seems that when an anomalous string for tabStops is set, LC uses a hybrid of tabStops and tabWidths. > > I have the following tabStops in a table field (named f55"): "20,10,80". > > It would appear that the second stop is to the left of the first stop. Something similar to this has crashed LC with at least one user. For me, though, LC seems to set the first tabStop at 20, then sets a tabWidth of 10, and finally the last tabStop at 80. > > on mouseUp > set the tabstops of fld "f55" to "20,10,80" -- hybrid tabs > wait until the mouseclick > set the tabwidths of fld "f55" to "20,10,80" --expands to expected values > end mouseUp > > Feature or bug? I'd say feature, because it's doing exactly what you asked it to do. If you want to set tab widths use the tabWidths property. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From simplsol at aol.com Wed Aug 14 13:57:57 2013 From: simplsol at aol.com (Paul Looney) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:57:57 -0700 Subject: Issues with minimizing under OS X? In-Reply-To: <5209AC57.8010708@fourthworld.com> References: <5209AC57.8010708@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard, I have not experienced it, nor have my customers reported it - all OS X - various versions. Note: I seldom minimize and I don't know how often my customers do so. Paul Looney On Aug 12, 2013, at 8:47 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I have a report from one of my testers of the app's main window not being able to be restored when clicking on its icon in the Dock after having been minimized. > > I've been unable to reproduce this. > > I believe the user's system is OS X Mountain Lion (though I don't know for sure; awaiting details). > > Any of you ever seen anything like that? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Wed Aug 14 13:59:34 2013 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:59:34 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <8D0672CDB143C15-F14-2A5A1@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> <8D0672CDB143C15-F14-2A5A1@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: "The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had single-digit model numbers." yeah, 1965 I drank a lot of Cokes, dreamt of being a pirate DJ off the coast of England and thought computers were boring. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:43 AM, wrote: > Hmmm. > > > I will give 2-1 odds, payable in LC tokens, for each year older you are > than I. > > > > Craig Newman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Kerner > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 1:35 pm > Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops > > > The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too > young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had > single-digit model numbers. > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:24 PM, J. Landman Gay >wrote: > > > On 8/14/13 11:49 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > > > > With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number > >> might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular > >> string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two > >> machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and > >> sinister in his getup. > >> > > > > I found early on that if I had the project browser showing, setting > > properties in the older property inspector would cause a crash sometimes. > > Later I found out there was a bug in the new project browser that caused > > that, but I'd already got into the habit of not showing it any more. I > > haven't had crashes since I turned it off, and I don't know if the bug's > > been fixed since then because I haven't turned it back on. > > > > Maybe the OP had both browsers showing and hit the same bug. > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode< > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 14 13:59:57 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:59:57 -0400 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <8D0672CDB143C15-F14-2A5A1@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> <8D0672CDB143C15-F14-2A5A1@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I was a VERY early starter, and sometimes technology lives longer than maybe it should. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:43 PM, wrote: > Hmmm. > > > I will give 2-1 odds, payable in LC tokens, for each year older you are > than I. > > > > Craig Newman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Kerner > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 1:35 pm > Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops > > > The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too > young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had > single-digit model numbers. > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:24 PM, J. Landman Gay >wrote: > > > On 8/14/13 11:49 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > > > > With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number > >> might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular > >> string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two > >> machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and > >> sinister in his getup. > >> > > > > I found early on that if I had the project browser showing, setting > > properties in the older property inspector would cause a crash sometimes. > > Later I found out there was a bug in the new project browser that caused > > that, but I'd already got into the habit of not showing it any more. I > > haven't had crashes since I turned it off, and I don't know if the bug's > > been fixed since then because I haven't turned it back on. > > > > Maybe the OP had both browsers showing and hit the same bug. > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode< > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 14 14:05:09 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:05:09 -0400 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> <8D0672CDB143C15-F14-2A5A1@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: hey, stephen, isn't SeaLand for sale again? On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:59 PM, stephen barncard < stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com> wrote: > "The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too > young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had > single-digit model numbers." > > yeah, 1965 I drank a lot of Cokes, dreamt of being a pirate DJ off the > coast of England and thought computers were boring. > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:43 AM, wrote: > > > Hmmm. > > > > > > I will give 2-1 odds, payable in LC tokens, for each year older you are > > than I. > > > > > > > > Craig Newman > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike Kerner > > To: How to use LiveCode > > Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 1:35 pm > > Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops > > > > > > The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too > > young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had > > single-digit model numbers. > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:24 PM, J. Landman Gay < > jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > >wrote: > > > > > On 8/14/13 11:49 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number > > >> might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular > > >> string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two > > >> machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and > > >> sinister in his getup. > > >> > > > > > > I found early on that if I had the project browser showing, setting > > > properties in the older property inspector would cause a crash > sometimes. > > > Later I found out there was a bug in the new project browser that > caused > > > that, but I'd already got into the habit of not showing it any more. I > > > haven't had crashes since I turned it off, and I don't know if the > bug's > > > been fixed since then because I haven't turned it back on. > > > > > > Maybe the OP had both browsers showing and hit the same bug. > > > > > > -- > > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > > > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode< > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription > > preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > > > > Stephen Barncard > San Francisco Ca. USA > > more about sqb > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 14 14:06:28 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:06:28 -0400 Subject: data grid on retina display In-Reply-To: References: <62BD549B-3486-4FC8-970C-69B3FA1B4B64@icloud.com> Message-ID: Monte, Since you were messing with this, is there a fairly easy way to get the column headers resized for retina to a readable height? On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 8:29 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > On 14/08/2013, at 3:34 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > > > Monte, can your mApp plugin handle a data grid? How about if it's > wrapped in your data grid scroller? I haven't tried yet, thought I'd ask > first before I spend the time. > > Yes, mApp scales the template then resets the datagrid. You just need to > ensure that any fixed pixel sizes you use in your datagrid layout script > are multiplied by mAppPixelDensity(). I've written a couple of very > datagrid heavy mobile apps with mApp. The worst problem with datagrids on > mobile at the moment is the only way to do smooth scrolling is expand them > to full height inside the scroller wrapper which of course means a delay if > you have long lists. > > Cheers > > -- > M E R Goulding > Software development services > Bespoke application development for vertical markets > > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From userev at canelasoftware.com Wed Aug 14 14:09:06 2013 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:09:06 -0700 Subject: Issues with minimizing under OS X? In-Reply-To: References: <5209AC57.8010708@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Aug 12, 2013, at 8:47 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I have a report from one of my testers of the app's main window not being able to be restored when clicking on its icon in the Dock after having been minimized. > > I've been unable to reproduce this. > > I believe the user's system is OS X Mountain Lion (though I don't know for sure; awaiting details). > > Any of you ever seen anything like that? We have not had any problems with this on any platform. We have a dedicated button in one of our products as it is normally a full screen app. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Aug 14 14:24:32 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> <8D0672CDB143C15-F14-2A5A1@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8D06732A7BBC349-F14-2A9D2@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> I see Mike is reluctant to take my wager. Craig -----Original Message----- From: stephen barncard To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 2:00 pm Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops "The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had single-digit model numbers." yeah, 1965 I drank a lot of Cokes, dreamt of being a pirate DJ off the coast of England and thought computers were boring. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:43 AM, wrote: > Hmmm. > > > I will give 2-1 odds, payable in LC tokens, for each year older you are > than I. > > > > Craig Newman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Kerner > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 1:35 pm > Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops > > > The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too > young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had > single-digit model numbers. > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:24 PM, J. Landman Gay >wrote: > > > On 8/14/13 11:49 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > > > > With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number > >> might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular > >> string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two > >> machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and > >> sinister in his getup. > >> > > > > I found early on that if I had the project browser showing, setting > > properties in the older property inspector would cause a crash sometimes. > > Later I found out there was a bug in the new project browser that caused > > that, but I'd already got into the habit of not showing it any more. I > > haven't had crashes since I turned it off, and I don't know if the bug's > > been fixed since then because I haven't turned it back on. > > > > Maybe the OP had both browsers showing and hit the same bug. > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode< > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Aug 14 14:30:07 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Field Tabstops oddity (was IDE vs MSG...) In-Reply-To: <520BC41A.9080502@fourthworld.com> References: <8D0672C55787694-F14-2A533@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520BC41A.9080502@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <8D067336F6CF0AD-F14-2AB0A@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Richard, Well, it turns out it is a feature. LC is indeed mixing widths and stops. And the dictionary says it always did: If a tabStop is less than the previous one, it uses that previous as a baseline, essentially making the smaller one a tabWidth, since the baseLine is now locally zero. So Alejandro's crashes are a mystery. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Richard Gaskin To: use-livecode Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 1:54 pm Subject: Re: Field Tabstops oddity (was IDE vs MSG...) dunbarx wrote: > It seems that when an anomalous string for tabStops is set, LC uses a hybrid of tabStops and tabWidths. > > I have the following tabStops in a table field (named f55"): "20,10,80". > > It would appear that the second stop is to the left of the first stop. Something similar to this has crashed LC with at least one user. For me, though, LC seems to set the first tabStop at 20, then sets a tabWidth of 10, and finally the last tabStop at 80. > > on mouseUp > set the tabstops of fld "f55" to "20,10,80" -- hybrid tabs > wait until the mouseclick > set the tabwidths of fld "f55" to "20,10,80" --expands to expected values > end mouseUp > > Feature or bug? I'd say feature, because it's doing exactly what you asked it to do. If you want to set tab widths use the tabWidths property. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 14 14:41:11 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:41:11 -0400 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <8D06732A7BBC349-F14-2A9D2@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> <8D0672CDB143C15-F14-2A5A1@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <8D06732A7BBC349-F14-2A9D2@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: No, I just don't want to admit that I'm 30 in dwarf years. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:24 PM, wrote: > I see Mike is reluctant to take my wager. > > > Craig > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen barncard > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 2:00 pm > Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops > > > "The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too > young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had > single-digit model numbers." > > yeah, 1965 I drank a lot of Cokes, dreamt of being a pirate DJ off the > coast of England and thought computers were boring. > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:43 AM, wrote: > > > Hmmm. > > > > > > I will give 2-1 odds, payable in LC tokens, for each year older you are > > than I. > > > > > > > > Craig Newman > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike Kerner > > To: How to use LiveCode > > Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 1:35 pm > > Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops > > > > > > The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too > > young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had > > single-digit model numbers. > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:24 PM, J. Landman Gay < > jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > >wrote: > > > > > On 8/14/13 11:49 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number > > >> might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular > > >> string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two > > >> machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and > > >> sinister in his getup. > > >> > > > > > > I found early on that if I had the project browser showing, setting > > > properties in the older property inspector would cause a crash > sometimes. > > > Later I found out there was a bug in the new project browser that > caused > > > that, but I'd already got into the habit of not showing it any more. I > > > haven't had crashes since I turned it off, and I don't know if the > bug's > > > been fixed since then because I haven't turned it back on. > > > > > > Maybe the OP had both browsers showing and hit the same bug. > > > > > > -- > > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > > > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode< > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription > > preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > > > > Stephen Barncard > San Francisco Ca. USA > > more about sqb > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Aug 14 16:14:08 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> <8D0672CDB143C15-F14-2A5A1@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <8D06732A7BBC349-F14-2A9D2@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8D06741F764962F-F14-2BC5C@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Hmmm. I was in college in the 60's. Raise? Craig -----Original Message----- From: Mike Kerner To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 2:42 pm Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops No, I just don't want to admit that I'm 30 in dwarf years. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:24 PM, wrote: > I see Mike is reluctant to take my wager. > > > Craig > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen barncard > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 2:00 pm > Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops > > > "The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too > young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had > single-digit model numbers." > > yeah, 1965 I drank a lot of Cokes, dreamt of being a pirate DJ off the > coast of England and thought computers were boring. > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:43 AM, wrote: > > > Hmmm. > > > > > > I will give 2-1 odds, payable in LC tokens, for each year older you are > > than I. > > > > > > > > Craig Newman > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike Kerner > > To: How to use LiveCode > > Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 1:35 pm > > Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops > > > > > > The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too > > young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had > > single-digit model numbers. > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:24 PM, J. Landman Gay < > jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > >wrote: > > > > > On 8/14/13 11:49 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number > > >> might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular > > >> string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two > > >> machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and > > >> sinister in his getup. > > >> > > > > > > I found early on that if I had the project browser showing, setting > > > properties in the older property inspector would cause a crash > sometimes. > > > Later I found out there was a bug in the new project browser that > caused > > > that, but I'd already got into the habit of not showing it any more. I > > > haven't had crashes since I turned it off, and I don't know if the > bug's > > > been fixed since then because I haven't turned it back on. > > > > > > Maybe the OP had both browsers showing and hit the same bug. > > > > > > -- > > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > > > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode< > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription > > preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > > > > Stephen Barncard > San Francisco Ca. USA > > more about sqb > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jhj at jhj.com Wed Aug 14 16:50:56 2013 From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:50:56 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <8D06741F764962F-F14-2BC5C@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> <8D0672CDB143C15-F14-2A5A1@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <8D06732A7BBC349-F14-2A9D2@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <8D06741F764962F-F14-2BC5C@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8B0321D1-EA3E-4CD4-BDD2-09B99EB63E21@jhj.com> I had my first computer class in 1964. .Jerry On Aug 14, 2013, at 1:14 PM, DunbarX at aol.com wrote: > Hmmm. > > > I was in college in the 60's. > > > > Raise? > > > > Craig > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Kerner > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 2:42 pm > Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops > > > No, I just don't want to admit that I'm 30 in dwarf years. > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:24 PM, wrote: > >> I see Mike is reluctant to take my wager. >> >> >> Craig >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: stephen barncard >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 2:00 pm >> Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops >> >> >> "The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too >> young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had >> single-digit model numbers." >> >> yeah, 1965 I drank a lot of Cokes, dreamt of being a pirate DJ off the >> coast of England and thought computers were boring. >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:43 AM, wrote: >> >>> Hmmm. >>> >>> >>> I will give 2-1 odds, payable in LC tokens, for each year older you are >>> than I. >>> >>> >>> >>> Craig Newman >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Mike Kerner >>> To: How to use LiveCode >>> Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 1:35 pm >>> Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops >>> >>> >>> The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too >>> young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had >>> single-digit model numbers. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:24 PM, J. Landman Gay < >> jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 8/14/13 11:49 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: >>>> >>>> With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number >>>>> might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular >>>>> string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two >>>>> machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and >>>>> sinister in his getup. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I found early on that if I had the project browser showing, setting >>>> properties in the older property inspector would cause a crash >> sometimes. >>>> Later I found out there was a bug in the new project browser that >> caused >>>> that, but I'd already got into the habit of not showing it any more. I >>>> haven't had crashes since I turned it off, and I don't know if the >> bug's >>>> been fixed since then because I haven't turned it back on. >>>> >>>> Maybe the OP had both browsers showing and hit the same bug. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode< >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription >>> preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Stephen Barncard >> San Francisco Ca. USA >> >> more about sqb >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From kee at kagi.com Wed Aug 14 16:58:02 2013 From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:58:02 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <8B0321D1-EA3E-4CD4-BDD2-09B99EB63E21@jhj.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> <8D0672CDB143C15-F14-2A5A1@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <8D06732A7BBC349-F14-2A9D2@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <8D06741F764962F-F14-2BC5C@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <8B0321D1-EA3E-4CD4-BDD2-09B99EB63E21@jhj.com> Message-ID: <12979037-E918-48A0-B2AF-25B95C0C0F52@kagi.com> A summer class in "Computer programming and slide rules" in 1969 in the sixth grade on a teletype with paper tape. First personal computer was a SouthWest Technical Products 6800 in 1978. Kee Nethery On Aug 14, 2013, at 1:50 PM, Jerry Jensen wrote: > I had my first computer class in 1964. > .Jerry > > On Aug 14, 2013, at 1:14 PM, DunbarX at aol.com wrote: > >> Hmmm. >> >> >> I was in college in the 60's. >> >> >> >> Raise? >> >> >> >> Craig >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mike Kerner >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 2:42 pm >> Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops >> >> >> No, I just don't want to admit that I'm 30 in dwarf years. >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:24 PM, wrote: >> >>> I see Mike is reluctant to take my wager. >>> >>> >>> Craig >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: stephen barncard >>> To: How to use LiveCode >>> Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 2:00 pm >>> Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops >>> >>> >>> "The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too >>> young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had >>> single-digit model numbers." >>> >>> yeah, 1965 I drank a lot of Cokes, dreamt of being a pirate DJ off the >>> coast of England and thought computers were boring. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:43 AM, wrote: >>> >>>> Hmmm. >>>> >>>> >>>> I will give 2-1 odds, payable in LC tokens, for each year older you are >>>> than I. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Craig Newman >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Mike Kerner >>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>> Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 1:35 pm >>>> Subject: Re: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops >>>> >>>> >>>> The only reason you guys think tabWidths are better is because you're too >>>> young to have spent enough time on teletypes, or IBM's that had >>>> single-digit model numbers. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 1:24 PM, J. Landman Gay < >>> jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 8/14/13 11:49 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> With what you explained, I might see how, say, a negative number >>>>>> might trip up the translation, but do not see why the particular >>>>>> string mentioned does. Anyway, that string does not crash two >>>>>> machines I tried it on, so I suspect something more local and >>>>>> sinister in his getup. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I found early on that if I had the project browser showing, setting >>>>> properties in the older property inspector would cause a crash >>> sometimes. >>>>> Later I found out there was a bug in the new project browser that >>> caused >>>>> that, but I'd already got into the habit of not showing it any more. I >>>>> haven't had crashes since I turned it off, and I don't know if the >>> bug's >>>>> been fixed since then because I haven't turned it back on. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe the OP had both browsers showing and hit the same bug. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode< >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>> and did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription >>>> preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> Stephen Barncard >>> San Francisco Ca. USA >>> >>> more about sqb >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription >>> preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 14 17:42:31 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:42:31 -0400 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <12979037-E918-48A0-B2AF-25B95C0C0F52@kagi.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> <8D067256F7E5891-F14-29F82@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520BBD43.2000608@hyperactivesw.com> <8D0672CDB143C15-F14-2A5A1@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <8D06732A7BBC349-F14-2A9D2@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <8D06741F764962F-F14-2BC5C@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <8B0321D1-EA3E-4CD4-BDD2-09B99EB63E21@jhj.com> <12979037-E918-48A0-B2AF-25B95C0C0F52@kagi.com> Message-ID: lol. Nope. I'm 29. Again. I just figured that anyone who ever used tabstops before coming to HC/SC/RR/LC would be familiar with this mechanism for setting them. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Aug 14 18:19:54 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:19:54 -0700 Subject: OS X Equivalent of "Run As Administrator"? Message-ID: Hi List: I'm wondering if there's kind of equivalent for "run as administrator" for LiveCode apps on OS X. I have a case where a user wants to run my downloaded app under a user account. I assume the "official" process is to get an Apple Mac dev account and get some kind of code signing happening for LiveCode, but barring that headache, is there any way to one-time run the app with administrative privileges? Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 14 18:24:02 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:24:02 +1000 Subject: OS X Equivalent of "Run As Administrator"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 15/08/2013, at 8:19 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > I'm wondering if there's kind of equivalent for "run as administrator" for > LiveCode apps on OS X. I have a case where a user wants to run my > downloaded app under a user account. I assume the "official" process is > to get an Apple Mac dev account and get some kind of code signing > happening for LiveCode, but barring that headache, is there any way to > one-time run the app with administrative privileges? Can you farm out whatever needs admin privileges to a separate process? If so you could use the open elevated process command. Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 18:30:49 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:30:49 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> References: <8D0670FF20C7A69-F14-28D8F@webmail-d264.sysops.aol.com> <520B9589.70206@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > The tabstops property requires absolute metrics from the left edge of the > control; that is, each item is the complete measure from that edge, e.g.: > > 100,150,225 > I've never found this to be the case. I just opened up LC 5.0, created a field with text and tabs in it, and in the message box typed: set the tabstops of fld 1 to 200,100,150,75 No crash, and the text formatted the way I expected. Now if I type in the message box: put the tabstops of fld 1 I get: 200,300,450,525 Which is exactly what I expected; the first value was taken literally, and the rest were incremental. For kicks, I tried: set the tabstops of fld 1 to 200,100,250,675 and then put the tabstops of fld 1 gets me: 200,300,550,675 Which means that the first value was absolute, the next two relative even though the third was larger than either of the first two (but not larger than their sum), and the last, which was larger than the sum of the three previous, was again absolute. I tried again in 6.1 with the same result and no problems. gc From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 14 18:31:56 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:31:56 +1000 Subject: data grid on retina display In-Reply-To: References: <62BD549B-3486-4FC8-970C-69B3FA1B4B64@icloud.com> Message-ID: On 15/08/2013, at 4:06 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Since you were messing with this, is there a fairly easy way to get the > column headers resized for retina to a readable height? mApp resizes everything so it should just work. I've recently added scaling to column widths which I didn't have before. I'll release that ASAP. Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 18:33:09 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:33:09 -0500 Subject: OS X Equivalent of "Run As Administrator"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > I'm wondering if there's kind of equivalent for "run as administrator" for > LiveCode apps on OS X. I have a case where a user wants to run my > downloaded app under a user account. I assume the "official" process is > to get an Apple Mac dev account and get some kind of code signing > happening for LiveCode, but barring that headache, is there any way to > one-time run the app with administrative privileges? > https://www.apple.com/osx/what-is/security.html "If you?re sure the app is safe, you can manually override Gatekeeper by Control-clicking the app and choosing to open it." I don't know if that's possible on the highest security setting. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 14 18:44:27 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 00:44:27 +0200 Subject: OS X Equivalent of "Run As Administrator"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520C084B.4090506@economy-x-talk.com> Scott, Read this: https://support.apple.com/kb/HT5290 -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/15/2013 00:19, Scott Rossi wrote: > Hi List: > > I'm wondering if there's kind of equivalent for "run as administrator" for > LiveCode apps on OS X. I have a case where a user wants to run my > downloaded app under a user account. I assume the "official" process is > to get an Apple Mac dev account and get some kind of code signing > happening for LiveCode, but barring that headache, is there any way to > one-time run the app with administrative privileges? > > Thanks & Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 14 18:46:24 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:46:24 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520C08C0.4020502@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> The tabstops property requires absolute metrics from the left edge of the >> control; that is, each item is the complete measure from that edge, e.g.: >> >> 100,150,225 > > I've never found this to be the case. I just opened up LC 5.0, created a > field with text and tabs in it, and in the message box typed: > > set the tabstops of fld 1 to 200,100,150,75 > > No crash, and the text formatted the way I expected. Now if I type in the > message box: > > put the tabstops of fld 1 > > I get: > > 200,300,450,525 > > Which is exactly what I expected; the first value was taken literally, and > the rest were incremental. For kicks, I tried: > > set the tabstops of fld 1 to 200,100,250,675 > > and then > > put the tabstops of fld 1 > > gets me: > > 200,300,550,675 > > Which means that the first value was absolute, the next two relative even > though the third was larger than either of the first two (but not larger > than their sum), and the last, which was larger than the sum of the three > previous, was again absolute. You really expected the value coming back to be different from what you set it to? If you set the text of a field to "Hello", do you expect getting the text from the field to yield "World"? ;) It seems the engine is being very graceful in allowing both relative and absolute values as input for the tabStops, but ultimately the values that get stored are the absolute ones. If that weren't the case it would mean that Mark Waddingham wasted his time adding the tabWidth property, and I don't think I've ever seen Mark willfully waste his time. Now I'm wondering what the engine does with values in which each column is larger than the last. That is, if you set the tabstops to this: 100,150,200 ...do you get this back: 100,250,450 ..or: 100,150,200 ? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From bonnmike at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 18:51:59 2013 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:51:59 -0600 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520C08C0.4020502@fourthworld.com> References: <520C08C0.4020502@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: you get 100, 150, 200 absolute positioning. If you had set to 150,100,200 you'd get back 150, 250, 450.. All of which explains why I use absolutes to keep my head from exploding. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >>> The tabstops property requires absolute metrics from the left edge of the >>> control; that is, each item is the complete measure from that edge, e.g.: >>> >>> 100,150,225 >>> >> >> I've never found this to be the case. I just opened up LC 5.0, created a >> field with text and tabs in it, and in the message box typed: >> >> set the tabstops of fld 1 to 200,100,150,75 >> >> No crash, and the text formatted the way I expected. Now if I type in the >> message box: >> >> put the tabstops of fld 1 >> >> I get: >> >> 200,300,450,525 >> >> Which is exactly what I expected; the first value was taken literally, and >> the rest were incremental. For kicks, I tried: >> >> set the tabstops of fld 1 to 200,100,250,675 >> >> and then >> >> put the tabstops of fld 1 >> >> gets me: >> >> 200,300,550,675 >> >> Which means that the first value was absolute, the next two relative even >> though the third was larger than either of the first two (but not larger >> than their sum), and the last, which was larger than the sum of the three >> previous, was again absolute. >> > > You really expected the value coming back to be different from what you > set it to? > > If you set the text of a field to "Hello", do you expect getting the text > from the field to yield "World"? ;) > > It seems the engine is being very graceful in allowing both relative and > absolute values as input for the tabStops, but ultimately the values that > get stored are the absolute ones. > > If that weren't the case it would mean that Mark Waddingham wasted his > time adding the tabWidth property, and I don't think I've ever seen Mark > willfully waste his time. > > Now I'm wondering what the engine does with values in which each column is > larger than the last. That is, if you set the tabstops to this: > > 100,150,200 > > ...do you get this back: > > 100,250,450 > > ..or: > > 100,150,200 > > ? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 14 19:02:31 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:02:31 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520C0C87.9090500@fourthworld.com> Looks like we've discovered an inconsistency. Apparently the engine will treat items in the tabstops as column widths if one or more of them is smaller than a preceding item, but if each of the items is larger than the last then the value you get back will be the same you set it to. If you wrote code expecting the engine to treat incoming values consistently, you risk having unexpected column widths. So we have to ask ourselves: now that the engine explicitly supports relative values via the tabWidths property, is the "sometimes" rule for setting tabStops a feature or a bug? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> Geoff Canyon wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> >>>> The tabstops property requires absolute metrics from the left edge of the >>>> control; that is, each item is the complete measure from that edge, e.g.: >>>> >>>> 100,150,225 >>>> >>> >>> I've never found this to be the case. I just opened up LC 5.0, created a >>> field with text and tabs in it, and in the message box typed: >>> >>> set the tabstops of fld 1 to 200,100,150,75 >>> >>> No crash, and the text formatted the way I expected. Now if I type in the >>> message box: >>> >>> put the tabstops of fld 1 >>> >>> I get: >>> >>> 200,300,450,525 >>> >>> Which is exactly what I expected; the first value was taken literally, and >>> the rest were incremental. For kicks, I tried: >>> >>> set the tabstops of fld 1 to 200,100,250,675 >>> >>> and then >>> >>> put the tabstops of fld 1 >>> >>> gets me: >>> >>> 200,300,550,675 >>> >>> Which means that the first value was absolute, the next two relative even >>> though the third was larger than either of the first two (but not larger >>> than their sum), and the last, which was larger than the sum of the three >>> previous, was again absolute. >>> >> >> You really expected the value coming back to be different from what you >> set it to? >> >> If you set the text of a field to "Hello", do you expect getting the text >> from the field to yield "World"? ;) >> >> It seems the engine is being very graceful in allowing both relative and >> absolute values as input for the tabStops, but ultimately the values that >> get stored are the absolute ones. >> >> If that weren't the case it would mean that Mark Waddingham wasted his >> time adding the tabWidth property, and I don't think I've ever seen Mark >> willfully waste his time. >> >> Now I'm wondering what the engine does with values in which each column is >> larger than the last. That is, if you set the tabstops to this: >> >> 100,150,200 >> >> ...do you get this back: >> >> 100,250,450 >> >> ..or: >> >> 100,150,200 >> >> ? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World >> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com >> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com >> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 19:33:15 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:33:15 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520C08C0.4020502@fourthworld.com> References: <520C08C0.4020502@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 5:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > You really expected the value coming back to be different from what you > set it to? > Yep -- I've known this is how tabstops work longer than I can remember, and I use this feature all the time. The docs even mention this, although they are a little misleading. They say: If a tab stop is less than the previous tab stop, the distance is measured relative to the previous tab stop. For example, if the tabStops is set to "20,100,30", tab stops are placed at 20, 100, and 130 pixels from the left margin. That should of course say, "If a tab stop is less than the absolute position of the previous tab stop..." For example, if the tabstops were set to 100,30,50, the third tab stop would be relative, despite 50 being greater than 30. > > If you set the text of a field to "Hello", do you expect getting the text > from the field to yield "World"? ;) > Not unless the field's name is Eliza! > > It seems the engine is being very graceful in allowing both relative and > absolute values as input for the tabStops, but ultimately the values that > get stored are the absolute ones. > Agreed. > > If that weren't the case it would mean that Mark Waddingham wasted his > time adding the tabWidth property, and I don't think I've ever seen Mark > willfully waste his time. > Waste is a strong word to use, but this seems like a convenience more than a feature. > > Now I'm wondering what the engine does with values in which each column is > larger than the last. That is, if you set the tabstops to this: > > 100,150,200 > > ...do you get this back: > > 100,250,450 > > ..or: > > 100,150,200 > 100,150,200, as I described earlier. Relative only kicks in when a value is less than the absolute position of the preceding tab stop. From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 19:40:39 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:40:39 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520C0C87.9090500@fourthworld.com> References: <520C0C87.9090500@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Looks like we've discovered an inconsistency. > > Apparently the engine will treat items in the tabstops as column widths if > one or more of them is smaller than a preceding item, but if each of the > items is larger than the last then the value you get back will be the same > you set it to. > > If you wrote code expecting the engine to treat incoming values > consistently, you risk having unexpected column widths. > > So we have to ask ourselves: now that the engine explicitly supports > relative values via the tabWidths property, is the "sometimes" rule for > setting tabStops a feature or a bug? > It's not a sometimes rule -- it's determinative, and it's a feature. 1. Item 1 of the tabstops is always absolute. 2. If the absolute position of item N of the tabstops > item (N + 1) of the tabstops, item (N + 1) is taken as relative (added to the absolute position of item N). 3. After the last tabstop (item F), additional tabstops are added at intervals of item F - item (F - 1) -- or simply item F if there is only one item in the list -- until the field runs out of room. gc From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 14 20:17:59 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:17:59 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520C1E37.3080808@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: ... >> If you wrote code expecting the engine to treat incoming values >> consistently, you risk having unexpected column widths. >> >> So we have to ask ourselves: now that the engine explicitly supports >> relative values via the tabWidths property, is the "sometimes" rule for >> setting tabStops a feature or a bug? > > It's not a sometimes rule -- it's determinative, and it's a feature. > > 1. Item 1 of the tabstops is always absolute. > 2. If the absolute position of item N of the tabstops > item (N + 1) of the > tabstops, item (N + 1) is taken as relative (added to the absolute position > of item N). > 3. After the last tabstop (item F), additional tabstops are added at > intervals of item F - item (F - 1) -- or simply item F if there is only one > item in the list -- until the field runs out of room. 1 and 3 and always consistent, but 2 simply says that sometimes the values are treated as absolutes and other times as relative. In brief, code that expects the values to be treated consistently will at some point fail if those values have sufficient freedom of range. This is presumably why tabWidths was added, and apparently they forgot to close this hole with the older token. But before I file a bug report, let's see if it's worth the time: has anyone ever had code that produced unexpected/unwanted results from this inconsistent treatment of the input values of tabStops? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 20:51:01 2013 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:51:01 +0800 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: <9DB3DD9F-FEA9-4E8E-A2F6-C93D5CB0CF0B@gmail.com> References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <520AF7E7.3090900@hyperactivesw.com> <9DB3DD9F-FEA9-4E8E-A2F6-C93D5CB0CF0B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sorry Geoff I just don't follow your logic. Just because one doesn't exist why shouldn't the others? If I understand your logic, which clearly I don't, you are suggesting that because LC can create and count multiple empty lines, and create and count multiple empty items, it should be able to create and count a line with 5 empty words in it? Each are counted by their own definition, and just because you can do something with one doesn't mean you can do the same with the others. LC's current definitions can create interesting results: In the Message Box: (2 lines) put "Geoff said - " & quote & "The number of words in this line is 11." & quote & cr into msg put "But LC only counts " & the number of words of msg & " words." after msg Again, I'm not suggesting the current behavior should be changed. I know it works consistently. As I said before, I think if HC was first implemented with a definition that "test" is 0 items and not a List; and "," is a List of 2 empty items, then we wouldn't be having this thread, because as Jacque said: it's a "structure that is more similar to real lists in other languages". I think Mark Wieder is right on the mark (bad pun) when he said the time is now, LC is at a critical point with hopefully droves of developers from other languages and non-developers trying it out, so the less 'quirks' (Mark Waddingham's word) the better. I love LC and the xTalk language, for me it is the best, there is nothing even close. If I wasn't so dumb I'd be able to dive into the engine and create a new keyword "datum" which would have a different definition of counting Lists to the way items does now. [I'd also like to be able to 'is a list' and return true or false in the same way I can currently 'is an array' - yes I know I can create functions to do both now] Mark's suggested addition seems a win win to me, it gives the option to count items differently and I don't have to do anything ;-) On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 9:35 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > Wouldn't this mean that: > > the number of items of "test" -- puts zero > > And by extension: > > the number of words of "test" -- puts zero > the number of lines of "test" -- puts zero > > Sent from my iPad > > On Aug 14, 2013, at 7:03 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > > > If you put empty into an Array, it is no longer an array. IMO once you > get > > below two items you no longer have a List. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Wed Aug 14 21:09:44 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:09:44 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520C1E37.3080808@fourthworld.com> References: <520C1E37.3080808@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > But before I file a bug report, let's see if it's worth the time: has > anyone ever had code that produced unexpected/unwanted results from this > inconsistent treatment of the input values of tabStops? Yes, until I figured out what was going on. Personally, I'm leery of anything that tries to interpret my input based on arbitrary logic and would much rather set either tabstops or tabwidths and have each of them retain the values I set them to without trying to interpret them. Also, I've always found the automatic generation of tabstops under Geoff's rule 3 to be arbitrary but no doubt some folks prefer it that way. Pete lcSQL Software From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 14 21:58:23 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 20:58:23 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <520AF7E7.3090900@hyperactivesw.com> <9DB3DD9F-FEA9-4E8E-A2F6-C93D5CB0CF0B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <520C35BF.8060500@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/14/13 7:51 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > Mark's suggested > addition seems a win win to me, it gives the option to count items > differently and I don't have to do anything ;-) But do keep reading the forum thread, as runrevmark has pointed out some issues with it that could cause trouble with libraries and scripts that interact with each other. In general I agree that the proposed solution would work as long as you have full control over all the handlers that interact with your script. If you don't, there could be pitfalls. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 15 01:35:29 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 00:35:29 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520C1E37.3080808@fourthworld.com> References: <520C1E37.3080808@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I don't understand the use of "sometimes" here, as if the functionality were uncertain, ambiguous, or just plain random. This functionality is determinate, and as far as I can tell has been this way (and documented) since Rev 1.0, and presumably back to the MetaCard days. To me, this is very much like the following, which works: put "test" into x put z before char 7 of x put x -- puts "testz" There is no character 7 of x. The length of x is 4 (and then 5, obviously). The engine takes an unexpected input and interprets it in a sensible, predictable, and useful way. Interestingly, this does something quite different: put "1,2,3" into x put 4 before item 7 of x put x -- puts "1,2,3,,,,4" In this case, since empty items are possible, the list is padded to make the command possible in a stricter sense than what was possible with characters. I doubt I'm demonstrating anything obscure here, but I'm trying to illustrate one of the beautiful things about LC: in many circumstances, it simply "does the right thing," even when given potentially counterintuitive input. I'd hate to lose that. Further, I think all the arguments against changing the behavior of the terminating itemdelimiter apply here as well: given the long history of this behavior, changing it is risky for existing code. > On Aug 14, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > 1 and 3 and always consistent, but 2 simply says that sometimes the values are treated as absolutes and other times as relative. From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 15 02:12:32 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:12:32 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: <520C1E37.3080808@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I'm leery of > anything that tries to interpret my input based on arbitrary logic and > would much rather set either tabstops or tabwidths and have each of them > retain the values I set them to without trying to interpret them. > > Also, I've always found the automatic generation of tabstops under Geoff's > rule 3 to be arbitrary but no doubt some folks prefer it that way. > I understand "arbitrary" even less than "sometimes." This behavior does something useful with input that otherwise does not meet the spec. The alternative would be to say that the order of the tabstops is irrelevant and the values are always absolute, but presumably then this would happen: set the tabstops of fld 1 to "200,100,50,400,300" put the tabstops of fld 1 -- puts "50,100,200,300,400" Which of course means that (as has been decried in other posts) the output is not identical to the input. I'm puzzled by the concern regarding this particular "interpretation." LiveCode is overflowing with cases where atypical input is interpreted sensibly, from negative character references, to type inference/automatic casting, to storing the names of properties in variables for future use as properties, to this little gem: put "test3this" into x add 14 to char 5 of x put x -- puts "test17this" I wonder if all of those seem good and useful just because we're all used to them. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 15 02:20:20 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 23:20:20 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops Message-ID: <520C7324.3000806@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > To me, this is very much like the following, which works: > > put "test" into x > put z before char 7 of x > put x -- puts "testz" > > There is no character 7 of x. The length of x is 4 (and then 5, > obviously). The engine takes an unexpected input and interprets it in > a sensible, predictable, and useful way. Interestingly, this does > something quite different: > > put "1,2,3" into x > put 4 before item 7 of x > put x -- puts "1,2,3,,,,4" > > In this case, since empty items are possible, the list is padded to > make the command possible in a stricter sense than what was possible > with characters. I doubt I'm demonstrating anything obscure here, but > I'm trying to illustrate one of the beautiful things about LC: in many > circumstances, it simply "does the right thing," even when given > potentially counterintuitive input. I'd hate to lose that. Did you mean to post that in reply to the other thread on delimiters? Neither of those examples are of tabStops. The tabStops issue is distinguished from those by one key principle: Whether we prefer the behavior those examples exhibit or not, the behavior is consistently applied, regardless of the values in the data being acted on. But with tabStops, the behavior differs with different data. That's a big ouch, making it impossible to write a handler which can reliably automate the setting of tabStops if the range of values is sufficiently dynamic. Sure, it's been around for a long time. So has "destroyStack", which doesn't destroy a stack. I think the world of Dr. Raney, but I think he'd be the first to say that sometime he took short cuts (ever hear the one about how the boundingRect property was first implemented in a different order from all other rects in the language?). In this case, the convenience once offered by having this one token crudely attempt to serve two different goals was fixed with tabWidths, which supports relative offsets consistently and reliably. That said, I agree here with the one thing this has in common with the delimiter thread: > Further, I think all the arguments against changing the behavior of > the terminating itemdelimiter apply here as well: given the long > history of this behavior, changing it is risky for existing code. I seem to be in a minority when it comes to changing the behavior of tokens that have been in the language for a long time, but it's encouraging to see that number growing. As I noted earlier: But before I file a bug report, let's see if it's worth the time: has anyone ever had code that produced unexpected/unwanted results from this inconsistent treatment of the input values of tabStops? So far we've only heard from Peter on this. Maybe there are others, but maybe there aren't. There are enough dumb things in the language that I don't think anyone wants to see RunRev take time away from more critical things to address them all. So I won't file this as a bug report until there's evidence that it's as problematic in practice as it is in theory. And even then, there's certainly no reason to believe that if I did file a bug report anyone would bother with it in light of the bigger goals they're working on right now. If it's a problem it can be fixed. And if it's not a problem this thread will die a natural death. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web ____________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From gerry.orkin at gmail.com Thu Aug 15 02:41:58 2013 From: gerry.orkin at gmail.com (Gerry Orkin) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:41:58 +1000 Subject: Looking for a couple of testers for a word game Message-ID: Hi all Any volunteers care to give me feedback on an iOS word game that's nearing release? Please email me off list :) Thanks in advance! Gerry From peterwawood at gmail.com Thu Aug 15 04:17:18 2013 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:17:18 +0800 Subject: Has anybody ... Message-ID: <76EA9A51-892B-4762-B975-698EBA7DB723@gmail.com> Has anybody developed an App using "Fusion Charts for LiveCode" that they'd be happy for me to include in 1001 things to do with LiveCode? Regards Peter http://LiveCode1001.blogspot.com From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 15 04:27:11 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 03:27:11 -0500 Subject: Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?) In-Reply-To: References: <5202F9D0.6090802@hyperactivesw.com> <792E7A35-9760-4256-84E3-8FD8961B9E7A@sweattechnologies.com> <5203187B.2010000@hyperactivesw.com> <52031A94.2000108@hyperactivesw.com> <225840EB-BA71-41E2-B069-6D2AF89AE161@sweattechnologies.com> <520324DC.5070505@hyperactivesw.com> <17509BA5-F82A-47ED-98D1-3D87196C298C@buffalo.edu> <2DE3EDBE-23C9-4E9A-9507-3AEA4B8FA0DD@buffalo.edu> <5203D93A.2060805@cogapp.com> <5203F2C0.6070307@hyperactivesw.com> <52080666.3070006@hyperactivesw.com> <520AF7E7.3090900@hyperactivesw.com> <9DB3DD9F-FEA9-4E8E-A2F6-C93D5CB0CF0B@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > Sorry Geoff I just don't follow your logic. Just because one doesn't exist > why shouldn't the others? If I understand your logic, which clearly I > don't, you are suggesting that because LC can create and count multiple > empty lines, and create and count multiple empty items, it should be able > to create and count a line with 5 empty words in it? Each are counted by > their own definition, and just because you can do something with one > doesn't mean you can do the same with the others. LC's current definitions > can create interesting results: > > In the Message Box: (2 lines) > > put "Geoff said - " & quote & "The number of words in this line is 11." & > quote & cr into msg > put "But LC only counts " & the number of words of msg & " words." after > msg > > Again, I'm not suggesting the current behavior should be changed. I know it > works consistently. As I said before, I think if HC was first implemented > with a definition that "test" is 0 items and not a List; and "," is a List > of 2 empty items, then we wouldn't be having this thread, because as Jacque > said: it's a "structure that is more similar to real lists in other > languages". > You said, "IMO once you get below two items you no longer have a List." By that definition, the number of items of "test" is 0, since it is not a list. You might interpret "test," as a list with the second item empty, or a non-list that happens to end with a comma, and which contains no items. Based on that definition, you seem to be saying that the presence or absence of the delimiters is key; without a comma, there is no list, and therefore no list items. I was simply extending that to say that the string "test," with no whitespace, might be said to contain no words, if words are defined by the whitespace that surrounds them, and likewise if lines are defined by the returns that surround them. I have some more ideas on this that I'll write up separately. The interpretation of quoted text is from the HyperCard days, and seems like a mistake. From chay at embeddeddatasystems.com Thu Aug 15 08:29:09 2013 From: chay at embeddeddatasystems.com (Chay Wesley) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:29:09 +0000 Subject: OS X Equivalent of "Run As Administrator"? Message-ID: <540371769-1376569750-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-86135862-@b27.c12.bise6.blackberry> sudo ------Original Message------ From: Scott Rossi Sender: use-livecode To: LiveCode Mail List ReplyTo: How to use LiveCode Subject: OS X Equivalent of "Run As Administrator"? Sent: Aug 14, 2013 6:19 PM Hi List: I'm wondering if there's kind of equivalent for "run as administrator" for LiveCode apps on OS X. I have a case where a user wants to run my downloaded app under a user account. I assume the "official" process is to get an Apple Mac dev account and get some kind of code signing happening for LiveCode, but barring that headache, is there any way to one-time run the app with administrative privileges? Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Sent from my mobile device From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 15 12:22:57 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 09:22:57 -0700 Subject: OT: Kickstart a movie Message-ID: <15916567711.20130815092257@ahsoftware.net> All- A colleague here in the Bay Area is putting the finishing touches on a move about the Singularity and is now in the final 24 hours of Kickstarting some final funding. And has some fun rewards for helping out. Check out the trailer. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 15 13:20:15 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:20:15 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520C7324.3000806@fourthworld.com> References: <520C7324.3000806@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Geoff Canyon wrote: > > > To me, this is very much like the following, which works: > > > > put "test" into x > > put z before char 7 of x > > put x -- puts "testz" > > > > There is no character 7 of x. The length of x is 4 (and then 5, > > obviously). The engine takes an unexpected input and interprets it in > > a sensible, predictable, and useful way. Interestingly, this does > > something quite different: > > > > > Did you mean to post that in reply to the other thread on delimiters? > Neither of those examples are of tabStops. > No, I meant them for this thread, because they both illustrate how LC can take input that doesn't match the obvious inputs and still do something useful with it. Negative chunk references are another example: I doubt anyone new to programming intuitively knows what char -3 of "mississippi" is -- but they're incredibly useful, and they're easy to understand after you've thought about it for a moment. The tabStops issue is distinguished from those by one key principle: > > Whether we prefer the behavior those examples exhibit or not, the behavior > is consistently applied, regardless of the values in the data being acted > on. > > But with tabStops, the behavior differs with different data. > > That's a big ouch, making it impossible to write a handler which can > reliably automate the setting of tabStops if the range of values is > sufficiently dynamic. > I don't know what you mean by , can you give me an example? It's funny -- now it's my turn to have my head explode, because I would have assumed that the color names were an example of the same sort of "different info out than in" behavior that you dislike about the tabstops. But after I tested, it turns out that: set the backgroundcolor of this card to red put the backgroundcolor of this card -- puts "red" -- geoff's mind is blown I would have sworn that red translated to some RGB combination internally, and that the second line above would return that RGB value instead of "red." Is there some function I don't know about that translates from colornames to RGB. The same thing happens with HTML colors -- set the color to "#808080" and you get "#808080" back when you ask for the color. How would anyone write a command like: on darkenObject pID -- darkens whatever you hand it get the backcolor of pID repeat with i = 1 to 3 put max(0,item i of it - 20) into item i of it end repeat set the backcolor of pID to it end darkenObject The moment you hand that an object with a backcolor of red, or #808080, that command dies an ugly death. Sure, it's been around for a long time. So has "destroyStack", which > doesn't destroy a stack. I think the world of Dr. Raney, but I think he'd > be the first to say that sometime he took short cuts (ever hear the one > about how the boundingRect property was first implemented in a different > order from all other rects in the language?). > > In this case, the convenience once offered by having this one token > crudely attempt to serve two different goals was fixed with tabWidths, > which supports relative offsets consistently and reliably. > I still don't understand why you use words like "crudely." The solution as implemented seems clever and elegant to me, but that's what makes a ballgame I guess. That said, I agree here with the one thing this has in common with the > delimiter thread: > > > Further, I think all the arguments against changing the behavior of > > the terminating itemdelimiter apply here as well: given the long > > history of this behavior, changing it is risky for existing code. > > I seem to be in a minority when it comes to changing the behavior of > tokens that have been in the language for a long time, but it's encouraging > to see that number growing. > > As I noted earlier: > > > But before I file a bug report, let's see if it's worth the time: > has anyone ever had code that produced unexpected/unwanted results > from this inconsistent treatment of the input values of tabStops? > > So far we've only heard from Peter on this. Maybe there are others, but > maybe there aren't. > > There are enough dumb things in the language that I don't think anyone > wants to see RunRev take time away from more critical things to address > them all. > "dumb" -- you're killing me, Richard ;-) > So I won't file this as a bug report until there's evidence that it's as > problematic in practice as it is in theory. And even then, there's > certainly no reason to believe that if I did file a bug report anyone would > bother with it in light of the bigger goals they're working on right now. > > If it's a problem it can be fixed. And if it's not a problem this thread > will die a natural death. :) Not as long as you and I draw breath, my friend ;-) From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 15 13:28:35 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:28:35 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520C08C0.4020502@fourthworld.com> References: <520C08C0.4020502@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 5:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > If that weren't the case it would mean that Mark Waddingham wasted his > time adding the tabWidth property, and I don't think I've ever seen Mark > willfully waste his time. > Before you worry too much about how Mark spends his time ;-) I wrote this behavior in about five minutes, so I can't image it took him any longer than that, even working in C. setProp xTabWidths X -- sets the tabStops of the target based on a set of tabWidths repeat for each item i in X add i to T put T & comma after S end repeat set the tabStops of me to char 1 to -2 of S end xTabWidths getProp xTabWidths -- returns the tabWidths of the target put 0 into LT repeat for each item i in the tabStops of me put (i - LT) & comma after W put i into LT end repeat return char 1 to -2 of W end xTabWidths From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 15 13:38:15 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:38:15 -0400 Subject: Control From Outside Message-ID: I can't remember how to set up a stack/standalone to respond to calls from another application. This is on Windows. The other application will be telling the stack/standalone to do something. There is no two-way communication necessary. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 15 13:59:49 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:59:49 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: <520C7324.3000806@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <520D1715.2040904@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/15/13 12:20 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > How would anyone write a command like: > > on darkenObject pID > -- darkens whatever you hand it > get the backcolor of pID > repeat with i = 1 to 3 > put max(0,item i of it - 20) into item i of it > end repeat > set the backcolor of pID to it > end darkenObject > > The moment you hand that an object with a backcolor of red, or #808080, > that command dies an ugly death. Yup, that's been an issue forever. We need a property called "the rgbColor". The inability to retrieve RGB values from an object forces ugly workarounds like this one, which requires an entire LC lesson: -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Aug 15 14:18:01 2013 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:18:01 -0400 Subject: Thor is down? In-Reply-To: <76EA9A51-892B-4762-B975-698EBA7DB723@gmail.com> References: <76EA9A51-892B-4762-B975-698EBA7DB723@gmail.com> Message-ID: <007101ce99e3$c761e2b0$5625a810$@net> Anyone else having problems with thor? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11 Cell: 518-796-9332 From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 15 14:21:00 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:21:00 -0400 Subject: Thor is down? In-Reply-To: <007101ce99e3$c761e2b0$5625a810$@net> References: <76EA9A51-892B-4762-B975-698EBA7DB723@gmail.com> <007101ce99e3$c761e2b0$5625a810$@net> Message-ID: Yeah, he won't just off Loki. I mean, seriously. What, you're worried that sitting on the couch playing BlackOps II all day is too easy? On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > Anyone else having problems with thor? > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11 > Cell: 518-796-9332 > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Aug 15 14:24:07 2013 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:24:07 -0400 Subject: Is thor.on-rev.com down? In-Reply-To: References: <76EA9A51-892B-4762-B975-698EBA7DB723@gmail.com> <007101ce99e3$c761e2b0$5625a810$@net> Message-ID: <007201ce99e4$a13cc270$e3b64750$@net> Uhhhhh.... What? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 2:21 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: LiveCode Developer List Subject: Re: Thor is down? Yeah, he won't just off Loki. I mean, seriously. What, you're worried that sitting on the couch playing BlackOps II all day is too easy? On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > Anyone else having problems with thor? > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11 > Cell: 518-796-9332 > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 15 14:26:32 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:26:32 -0400 Subject: Is thor.on-rev.com down? In-Reply-To: <007201ce99e4$a13cc270$e3b64750$@net> References: <76EA9A51-892B-4762-B975-698EBA7DB723@gmail.com> <007101ce99e3$c761e2b0$5625a810$@net> <007201ce99e4$a13cc270$e3b64750$@net> Message-ID: thor...loki... never mind. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 15 14:33:39 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:33:39 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520D1F03.7060007@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 5:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> If that weren't the case it would mean that Mark Waddingham wasted his >> time adding the tabWidth property, and I don't think I've ever seen Mark >> willfully waste his time. > > Before you worry too much about how Mark spends his time ;-) > > I wrote this behavior in about five minutes, so I can't image it took him > any longer than that, even working in C. > > setProp xTabWidths X > -- sets the tabStops of the target based on a set of tabWidths > repeat for each item i in X > add i to T > put T & comma after S > end repeat > set the tabStops of me to char 1 to -2 of S > end xTabWidths > > getProp xTabWidths > -- returns the tabWidths of the target > put 0 into LT > repeat for each item i in the tabStops of me > put (i - LT) & comma after W > put i into LT > end repeat > return char 1 to -2 of W > end xTabWidths Mark already spent his time on that: rather than require us to write scripts to get consistent behavior from tabStops, we can now use the tabWidths property. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 15 14:42:35 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:42:35 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520D211B.2090406@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: ... >> The tabStops issue is distinguished from those by one key principle: >> >> Whether we prefer the behavior those examples exhibit or not, the behavior >> is consistently applied, regardless of the values in the data being acted >> on. >> >> But with tabStops, the behavior differs with different data. >> >> That's a big ouch, making it impossible to write a handler which can >> reliably automate the setting of tabStops if the range of values is >> sufficiently dynamic. >> > > I don't know what you mean by , can you give me an example? I provided one several posts ago yesterday: > I still don't understand why you use words like "crudely." Apparently the keepers of the engine agree there's a better way to handle relative column width specs, having taken the time to provide the tabWidths property. It's clear we both feel differently about this, and for backward compatibility I'm inclined to agree that we should keep this token as is unless we can find more than one person who's been adversely affected by it. I just find it odd, as much as I find "destroyStack" and being able to use property syntax for some functions but not others odd. Ultimately Mark makes the final call on such things, and having already provided an alternative to tabStops that's both more convenient and more consistent, I'm disinclined to pursue this further. Peace, my friend. In matters of taste there can be no dispute. - Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 15 14:50:53 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:50:53 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <520D211B.2090406@fourthworld.com> References: <520D211B.2090406@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > I provided one several posts ago yesterday: > August/191423.html > > > > > That links to a post from me ;-) From irog at mac.com Thu Aug 15 15:04:57 2013 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:04:57 -0700 Subject: OT: Kickstart a movie In-Reply-To: <15916567711.20130815092257@ahsoftware.net> References: <15916567711.20130815092257@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: No link, Mark? Roger On Aug 15, 2013, at 9:22 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > All- > > A colleague here in the Bay Area is putting the finishing touches on a > move about the Singularity and is now in the final 24 hours of > Kickstarting some final funding. And has some fun rewards for helping > out. Check out the trailer. > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 15 16:44:48 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:44:48 -0700 Subject: OT: Kickstart a movie In-Reply-To: References: <15916567711.20130815092257@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <88481210.20130815134448@ahsoftware.net> Roger- Thursday, August 15, 2013, 12:04:57 PM, you wrote: > No link, Mark? oops -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Thu Aug 15 19:36:03 2013 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:36:03 -0700 Subject: OT: Kickstart a movie In-Reply-To: <88481210.20130815134448@ahsoftware.net> References: <15916567711.20130815092257@ahsoftware.net> <88481210.20130815134448@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: I like the product placement rewards..... s On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Roger- > > Thursday, August 15, 2013, 12:04:57 PM, you wrote: > > > No link, Mark? > > oops > > < > http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1851180436/is-a-feature-film-set-on-the-threshold-of-infinity > > > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 15 19:50:09 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:50:09 -0700 Subject: OT: Kickstart a movie In-Reply-To: References: <15916567711.20130815092257@ahsoftware.net> <88481210.20130815134448@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <3811602105.20130815165009@ahsoftware.net> Stephen- Thursday, August 15, 2013, 4:36:03 PM, you wrote: > I like the product placement rewards..... It also serves the dual purpose of not having to make a bunch of stuff up. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From Mark_Smith at cpe.umanitoba.ca Fri Aug 16 03:48:21 2013 From: Mark_Smith at cpe.umanitoba.ca (Mark Smith) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 00:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SQLite/LiveCode Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1376639301690-4668806.post@n4.nabble.com> Peter, thanks for your efforts to keep LC current and capable on the database front. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/SQLite-LiveCode-Issues-tp4624881p4668806.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 16 11:53:07 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:53:07 +0200 Subject: If you bought my book... Message-ID: <520E4AE3.5070908@economy-x-talk.com> Hi everyone, Just a quick note for everyone who bought the book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner. I'm still getting orders from people who don't provide correct contact information. It takes a lot of effort to find out who ordered the book and where the book should be shipped. When you order Programming LiveCode..., please make sure that PayPal, your bank and your credit card company have your correct e-mail address, postal address and phone number. I rely on this information if I need to contact you. Everyone who orders the book, received an e-mail with a request to confirm his or her postal address. If you don't receive this e-mail, please contact me from a different e-mail address (not Yahoo, Hotmail, Gmail, etc; use your employer's or school's e-mail instead or use Mail.com). I have just sent a dozen of requests for confirmation. If you don't get any e-mails from me, try to contact me yourself. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ From mcgrath3 at mac.com Fri Aug 16 12:02:34 2013 From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:02:34 -0400 Subject: medical dictionary and spell checker for Livecode Message-ID: <1835D6E1-9561-4AF3-87AF-4A71666D26D2@mac.com> Curious if anyone has a Medical Dictionary and Spell checker for Livecode? Thanks -- Tom McGrath III http://lazyriver.on-rev.com mcgrath3 at mac.com From jiml at netrin.com Fri Aug 16 12:28:07 2013 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:28:07 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jacque wrote: > Yup, that's been an issue forever. We need a property called "the > rgbColor". The inability to retrieve RGB values from an object forces > ugly workarounds like this one, which requires an entire LC lesson: How about? get the backcolor of someControl as {colorName | RGBcolor | HEXcolor} Jim Lambert From jiml at netrin.com Fri Aug 16 13:57:38 2013 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:57:38 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76C9307C-F8D6-4CB5-94E3-73E5AA0FD936@netrin.com> Jim Lambert wrote: > How about? > > get the backcolor of someControl as {colorName | RGBcolor | HEXcolor} > > Jim Lambert Just to be clear this is a suggested syntax not the reality. Jim Lambert > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 16 14:28:26 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:28:26 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <76C9307C-F8D6-4CB5-94E3-73E5AA0FD936@netrin.com> References: <76C9307C-F8D6-4CB5-94E3-73E5AA0FD936@netrin.com> Message-ID: <520E6F4A.5090607@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/16/13 12:57 PM, Jim Lambert wrote: > Jim Lambert wrote: > >> How about? >> >> get the backcolor of someControl as {colorName | RGBcolor | HEXcolor} >> >> Jim Lambert > > Just to be clear this is a suggested syntax not the reality. Like. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Aug 16 14:46:14 2013 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:46:14 +0100 Subject: Problems with shell command (Windows 2008 Server) Message-ID: <520E7376.4000405@cogapp.com> Has anyone encountered problems with the shell command not returning, on Windows 2008 Server? I've got an app written in LC, which does a bunch of jobs configured by a script file (not a file of LiveCode syntax, just a set of instructions in an XML syntax); finishing with a bunch of batch files which the LC app invokes shell to do. The app is scheduled to run unattended every night on a faceless VM in a rack somewhere. It sends email when the whole job finishes sucessfully, or earlier than that if one of the tasks encounters a problem. Emails are currently only coming through perhaps one run in three. It appears to be hanging during one of these final batch files - not always the same one; and as far as one can tell from circumstantial evidence, the batch file itself seems to have completed, but the shell command hasn't returned. The core of this app is in use lots of place for years; the shell feature is used less often. Have other people encountered it appearing to hang intermittently in this way? TIA, Ben From feed at smpcsupport.com Fri Aug 16 18:34:59 2013 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:34:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: medical dictionary and spell checker for Livecode In-Reply-To: <1835D6E1-9561-4AF3-87AF-4A71666D26D2@mac.com> References: <1835D6E1-9561-4AF3-87AF-4A71666D26D2@mac.com> Message-ID: <1376692499205-4668814.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Tom, I have half the answer, I sell a LiveCode Spell checker here: http://www.runrevplanet.com/ but it does not include a medical dictionary. Although if you can source a suitable list of words you could add them to the dictionary. ----- -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/medical-dictionary-and-spell-checker-for-Livecode-tp4668809p4668814.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 16 19:31:42 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 01:31:42 +0200 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520EB65E.8070109@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Mike, On Windows, your best option is probably to use sockets, if you are trying to communicate between two LiveCode standalones. If you want to communicate between a LiveCode standalone and another non-LiveCode application, it depends on the options available in the other application. What exactly do you want? -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/15/2013 19:38, Mike Kerner wrote: > I can't remember how to set up a stack/standalone to respond to calls from > another application. This is on Windows. The other application will be > telling the stack/standalone to do something. There is no two-way > communication necessary. > From pete at lcsql.com Fri Aug 16 21:43:55 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:43:55 -0700 Subject: Mac/WIndows ASCII characters Message-ID: I'm displaying data from a custom property in a scrolling list field. Before I put the data into the field, I replace return chars in it with numToChar(182) - the paragraph symbol. This works fine on Windows but on a Mac I get a completely different character - an O with some sort of accent over it. I'm aware of the ISOToMac/MacToISO functions but I thought those were only for ascii chars > 128 that were stored on Windows then displayed on Mac or vice versa. In this case, I'm just replacing the return character before loading it into the field, not changing it in the custom property. What am I doing wrong? Pete lcSQL Software From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 16 21:53:15 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 03:53:15 +0200 Subject: Mac/WIndows ASCII characters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43697833-B2EB-413F-B1B9-AAAFD8A08220@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Pete, Either use isoToMac(numToChar(182)) or numToChar(166). The isoToMac and macToIso functions apply to all ASCII character above 128 and not only if store on one platform and displayed on another. If you use the Latin-1 character table on Mac, like you're doing now, you'll always need the isoToMac function to convert the characters to MacRoman. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. On 17 aug 2013, at 03:43, Peter Haworth wrote: > I'm displaying data from a custom property in a scrolling list field. > Before I put the data into the field, I replace return chars in it with > numToChar(182) - the paragraph symbol. This works fine on Windows but on a > Mac I get a completely different character - an O with some sort of accent > over it. > > I'm aware of the ISOToMac/MacToISO functions but I thought those were only > for ascii chars > 128 that were stored on Windows then displayed on Mac or > vice versa. In this case, I'm just replacing the return character before > loading it into the field, not changing it in the custom property. > > What am I doing wrong? > > Pete > lcSQL Software From curry at pair.com Sat Aug 17 01:51:08 2013 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:51:08 -0500 Subject: Mac/WIndows ASCII characters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520F0F4C.4080005@pair.com> Pete wrote: > I replace return chars in it with numToChar(182) - the paragraph symbol. This works fine on Windows but on a Mac I get a completely different character - an O with some sort of accent over it. Try ¶ with htmltext! Best wishes, Curry K. From endernafi at gmail.com Sat Aug 17 02:01:25 2013 From: endernafi at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ender_Nafi_Elek=C3=A7io=C4=9Flu?=) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 09:01:25 +0300 Subject: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding Message-ID: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> Dear LiveCode Gurus, hello all... As you know, Apple introduced a new framework named Sprite Kit targeting mainly game developing, 2D of course. It's quite promising and not just for games, either. Particle systems and physics engine could serve business apps, too, with nice little effects and sleek animations. It probably will do a lot of damage to Cocos2D, Box2D, Sparrow and in time maybe a possible threat to gaming consoles {see link #1 at the bottom of the post}. What do you think RunRev's approach will be to this move? Are we going to continue with Box2D which is merely a physics engine not a full gaming framework? Box2D's wide support for Desktop, Android, etc. is a strong point, though. But how about accessing that flawless animations of iOS 7 via LiveCode syntax and some support for Sprite Kit? Do RunRev realize the potential of gaming {especially indie games, 2D, 2.5D, platform, side-scrolling, top-down etc.}? I don't have any well-studied statistics under my sleeve but huge successes of Cut the Rope, Angry Birds and other games akin is hard to ignore. Even Apple did realize the importance of gaming. I'm quoting from Steffen's article here: "The Biggie: Apple acknowledges games! Apple finally understands the significance of games for their platforms! Sprite Kit is acknowledgement of that fact. Rejoice!" And one more thing {this could be a separate topic, actually, but anyways}: What's with the performance issues with LiveCode? I know it's not a native low-level language but still? Some research has shown that Javascript is 50-times slower than C++. I assume that we would see same results if LiveCode's compared to C++. Yet, Javascript is capable of doing some amazing things like Mozilla's Citadel port. {http://www.unrealengine.com/html5/} But here we are; not able to even effectively live-resize images on an iPhone. Try for yourself: {http://forums.runrev.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=14259#p70375} Was this topic too inconsiderate? Sorry, if it is. I'm not a decent programmer, I know that. I can't write my own game engine, I don't know even where to start. And I'm not willing to enter Objective-C's or C++'s obscure environments, again. I love LiveCode, with it's many unique features. I love its IDE, its speed, ability to script right into the objects. However, I had to turn down 4 fairly-big game projects in last couple of months. We don't have physics engine, particle support, strong animations, 3D, etc. But most importantly, performance issues are a real deal-breaker. I couldn't dare to accept them. Any of them would rotate the wheels of my business for at least a year, possibly longer :) Interestingly, day after day the number of my business-app-demanding customers shrinks where game projects on my table are increasing. I assume that I'm not alone here. It's a global trend, I think. Don't you wanna see some 10-million sold, fluent and addictive games in the LiveCode showcase page? I know I do :) It'll make proud all of us. I need some clarifications or insights of more experienced developers -like you- to draw a roadmap for my company. What do you think about these, I'd love to hear your opinions. Links related to Sprite Kit: http://www.learn-cocos2d.com/2013/06/apple-create-spritekit/ http://www.imore.com/ios-7-preview-sprite-kit https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/ios/documentation/GraphicsAnimation/Conceptual/SpriteKit_PG/Introduction/Introduction.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40013043-CH1-SW1 Kind Regards, ~ Ender Nafi ~? together, we're smarter ?~ From pete at lcsql.com Sat Aug 17 13:33:13 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:33:13 -0700 Subject: Mac/WIndows ASCII characters In-Reply-To: <43697833-B2EB-413F-B1B9-AAAFD8A08220@economy-x-talk.com> References: <43697833-B2EB-413F-B1B9-AAAFD8A08220@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the clarification Mark. Am I right in thinking no special action is necessary for Linux? Pete lcSQL Software On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > Hi Pete, > > Either use isoToMac(numToChar(182)) or numToChar(166). The isoToMac and > macToIso functions apply to all ASCII character above 128 and not only if > store on one platform and displayed on another. If you use the Latin-1 > character table on Mac, like you're doing now, you'll always need the > isoToMac function to convert the characters to MacRoman. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour > spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. > > > > > > > On 17 aug 2013, at 03:43, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > I'm displaying data from a custom property in a scrolling list field. > > Before I put the data into the field, I replace return chars in it with > > numToChar(182) - the paragraph symbol. This works fine on Windows but > on a > > Mac I get a completely different character - an O with some sort of > accent > > over it. > > > > I'm aware of the ISOToMac/MacToISO functions but I thought those were > only > > for ascii chars > 128 that were stored on Windows then displayed on Mac > or > > vice versa. In this case, I'm just replacing the return character before > > loading it into the field, not changing it in the custom property. > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > Pete > > lcSQL Software > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Sat Aug 17 13:34:33 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:34:33 -0700 Subject: Mac/WIndows ASCII characters In-Reply-To: <520F0F4C.4080005@pair.com> References: <520F0F4C.4080005@pair.com> Message-ID: Thanks Curry. That might be the easiest way to go - no platform check involved. I'm also putting a horizontal ellipsis character in the text so hopefully there's an html equivalent of that. Pete lcSQL Software On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Curry Kenworthy wrote: > > Pete wrote: > > > I replace return chars in it with numToChar(182) - the paragraph > symbol. This works fine on Windows but on a Mac I get a completely > different character - an O with some sort of accent over it. > > Try ¶ with htmltext! > > Best wishes, > > Curry K. > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Aug 17 13:36:01 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:36:01 -0400 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: <520EB65E.8070109@economy-x-talk.com> References: <520EB65E.8070109@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: I thought there was a way to launch a LC app with parameters, i.e. stdin. Maybe I'm thinking of another IDE. Launching the app isn't the problem. It's passing the parameters to it at launch. I could also create a file somewhere for the app to read. On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > On Windows, your best option is probably to use sockets, if you are trying > to communicate between two LiveCode standalones. > > If you want to communicate between a LiveCode standalone and another > non-LiveCode application, it depends on the options available in the other > application. > > What exactly do you want? > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/**xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour > spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" > http://qery.us/3fi > > Fill out this survey please > http://livecodebeginner.**economy-x-talk.com/survey/ > > > On 8/15/2013 19:38, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> I can't remember how to set up a stack/standalone to respond to calls from >> another application. This is on Windows. The other application will be >> telling the stack/standalone to do something. There is no two-way >> communication necessary. >> >> > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From pete at lcsql.com Sat Aug 17 14:03:21 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:03:21 -0700 Subject: Mac/WIndows ASCII characters In-Reply-To: References: <520F0F4C.4080005@pair.com> Message-ID: Looking into this further, it appears the list of namd html entities in the dictionary entry for htmltext is very incomplete. I just tried ↵ and … and they both work fine but are not listed in the dictionary. Does anyone have an up to date list of what LC recognizes in htmltext for ascii chars > 127? Is it possible it supports them all, as listed at http://www.w3schools.com/tags/ref_symbols.asp? This also makes me wonder if the list of tags supported by htmltext is complete..... Pete lcSQL Software On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Thanks Curry. That might be the easiest way to go - no platform check > involved. I'm also putting a horizontal ellipsis character in the text so > hopefully there's an html equivalent of that. > > Pete > lcSQL Software > > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Curry Kenworthy wrote: > >> >> Pete wrote: >> >> > I replace return chars in it with numToChar(182) - the paragraph >> symbol. This works fine on Windows but on a Mac I get a completely >> different character - an O with some sort of accent over it. >> >> Try ¶ with htmltext! >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Curry K. >> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From warren at warrensweb.us Sat Aug 17 14:05:37 2013 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:05:37 -0500 Subject: Mac/WIndows ASCII characters In-Reply-To: References: <520F0F4C.4080005@pair.com> Message-ID: <520FBB71.90804@warrensweb.us> On 08/17/2013 12:34 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > hopefully there's an html equivalent of that. http://www.html-entities.org/ From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sat Aug 17 14:38:20 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:38:20 +0200 Subject: Mac/WIndows ASCII characters In-Reply-To: References: <43697833-B2EB-413F-B1B9-AAAFD8A08220@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Hi Pete, You can treat Linux in the same way as Windows. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. On 17 aug 2013, at 19:33, Peter Haworth wrote: > Thanks for the clarification Mark. Am I right in thinking no special > action is necessary for Linux? > > Pete > lcSQL Software > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 17 14:52:20 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:52:20 +0300 Subject: Mac/WIndows ASCII characters In-Reply-To: References: <43697833-B2EB-413F-B1B9-AAAFD8A08220@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <520FC664.3000508@gmail.com> On 08/17/2013 09:38 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Hi Pete, > > You can treat Linux in the same way as Windows. Really? That's odd as I didn't know it was that similar! LOL. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. > > > > > > > On 17 aug 2013, at 19:33, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> Thanks for the clarification Mark. Am I right in thinking no special >> action is necessary for Linux? >> >> Pete >> lcSQL Software >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Sat Aug 17 16:01:14 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:01:14 -0700 Subject: Mac/WIndows ASCII characters In-Reply-To: <520FBB71.90804@warrensweb.us> References: <520F0F4C.4080005@pair.com> <520FBB71.90804@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: Thanks Warren, that works. Do you happen to know if all the entities mentioned there are supported within htmltext? Per my other post, they're not all mentioned in the dictionary entry for htmltext Pete lcSQL Software On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Warren Samples wrote: > On 08/17/2013 12:34 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> hopefully there's an html equivalent of that. >> > > > http://www.html-entities.org/ > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Sat Aug 17 16:02:03 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:02:03 -0700 Subject: Mac/WIndows ASCII characters In-Reply-To: References: <43697833-B2EB-413F-B1B9-AAAFD8A08220@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Thanks Mark. I decided to go the htmltext route so I don't have to worry about platforms. Pete lcSQL Software On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > Hi Pete, > > You can treat Linux in the same way as Windows. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour > spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. > > > > > > > On 17 aug 2013, at 19:33, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > Thanks for the clarification Mark. Am I right in thinking no special > > action is necessary for Linux? > > > > Pete > > lcSQL Software > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Sat Aug 17 18:18:33 2013 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 15:18:33 -0700 Subject: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding In-Reply-To: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> References: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1F818303C95F4930870C3B8BEE78DBD4@GATEWAY> > As you know, Apple introduced a new framework named Sprite > Kit targeting mainly game developing, 2D of course. > It's quite promising and not just for games, either. > Particle systems and physics engine could serve business > apps, too, with nice little effects and sleek animations. > It probably will do a lot of damage to Cocos2D, Box2D, > Sparrow and in time maybe a possible threat to gaming > consoles {see link #1 at the bottom of the post}. > > What do you think RunRev's approach will be to this move? > Are we going to continue with Box2D which is merely a physics > engine not a full gaming framework? This is something that they should stay away from. Runtime has the herculean task of providing a multiplatform solution. All operating systems are evolving with some very intensive graphicly rich features. We have wars of resolution on desktop and mobile that need to be addressed. Media enrichment is a must. But how much? You should be able to handle casual games. But... My team did Frankin 3D, which for the most part encapsulates the Irrlicht game engine. What made Irrlicht attractive is that it has a lot of implementations that are mature, and can handle both OpenGL and DirectX. It is hugely complex. What you end up with is the ability to interact with the engine in a way that's quite a bit easier than learning C++, but you still need to be a seasoned LiveCode user to use it. You could look at a solution like Unity 3D but there again....its a great visual environment with a big learning curve. It's got a lot of power and really great tools that are focused on 3D. But Unity 3D cannot make standard applications or even 2D applications without another big learning curve - totally not a LiveCode replacement. An investment that cannot work on all supported platforms and not leverage the natural productivity of LiveCode isn't a good investment for Runtime. Now they could implement cross platform support that might otherwise send you to some other 2D game tool, but certainly Apple isn't out to support Windows, Linux or Android. Those who went down the road years ago with Quicktime 3D know what Im talking about ;-) Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sat Aug 17 18:49:51 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 00:49:51 +0200 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <520EB65E.8070109@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Hi Mike, On Windows and Linux, you can start a standalone from the command line with parameteres. The parameters can be found in $0, $1 etc. You can do the same on Mac OS X, but you will have probems with the GUI. On Windows, you can also use the relaunch message to decide how a standalone should respond to the command line. The problem with the command line is that you can fire the app only once and can't interact. Using sockets, you may have more control. On Mac OS X, you can use Apple events, but you might also use sockets. If you explain what you want to do exactly, I or someone else might give you better advice. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. On 17 aug 2013, at 19:36, Mike Kerner wrote: > I thought there was a way to launch a LC app with parameters, i.e. stdin. > Maybe I'm thinking of another IDE. > > Launching the app isn't the problem. It's passing the parameters to it at > launch. I could also create a file somewhere for the app to read. > From gcanyon at gmail.com Sat Aug 17 19:04:38 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:04:38 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <76C9307C-F8D6-4CB5-94E3-73E5AA0FD936@netrin.com> References: <76C9307C-F8D6-4CB5-94E3-73E5AA0FD936@netrin.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Jim Lambert wrote: > > get the backcolor of someControl as {colorName | RGBcolor | HEXcolor} I definitely like the "as" syntax. Not to stir up a dead conversation, but the tabs situation could be cleanly solved in the same way: set the tabs of fld 3 to myList -- could be tabstops, tabwidths, or a mix put the tabs of fld 3[ as stops|widths] -- defaults to stops tabstops would then be a deprecated synonym for tabs For colors, the "color" part itself seems unnecessary: get the backcolor of someControl[ as {Name|RGB|HEX}] Hopefully the default would be RGB. And there is the question of what to return if asked for Name and there is no name for the exact color. The nearest color? RGB instead? From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 17 20:51:29 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 17:51:29 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: References: <76C9307C-F8D6-4CB5-94E3-73E5AA0FD936@netrin.com> Message-ID: <70170357139.20130817175129@ahsoftware.net> Geoff- Saturday, August 17, 2013, 4:04:38 PM, you wrote: > And there is the question of what to return if asked for Name and there is > no name for the exact color. The nearest color? RGB instead? theColorThatShallNotBeNamed -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 18 00:51:11 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 23:51:11 -0500 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <70170357139.20130817175129@ahsoftware.net> References: <76C9307C-F8D6-4CB5-94E3-73E5AA0FD936@netrin.com> <70170357139.20130817175129@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <521052BF.4090309@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/17/13 7:51 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Geoff- > > Saturday, August 17, 2013, 4:04:38 PM, you wrote: > >> And there is the question of what to return if asked for Name and there is >> no name for the exact color. The nearest color? RGB instead? > > theColorThatShallNotBeNamed > :) It's name is Argie Bee, but we don't say it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 18 05:23:54 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 12:23:54 +0300 Subject: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding In-Reply-To: <1F818303C95F4930870C3B8BEE78DBD4@GATEWAY> References: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> <1F818303C95F4930870C3B8BEE78DBD4@GATEWAY> Message-ID: <521092AA.8040408@gmail.com> On 08/18/2013 01:18 AM, Lynn Fredricks wrote: > An investment that cannot work on all supported platforms and not > leverage the natural productivity of LiveCode isn't a good investment > for Runtime. Very well put. There is a danger of getting distracted by these sorts of things. I don't know about all the other users on this list, but I do know that quite a few have invested years of effort on mastering the subtleties of Livecode (and some more, like myself, who have been knocking around in a slightly more half-hearted way), and what "frightens" me is that were RunRev to take too much tent of individual platform quirks and specialities (apart from those that are strictly necessary to keep Livecode running on those platforms) they might be spending a lot of effort that, in the long run, may not pay off. To illustrate this consider a possible future scenario: 2030: Desktop computers are largely a thing of the past. A large array of handheld devices run on successor systems to Android, Linux and Mobile versions of Mac and Windows, as well as 4-5 completely new operating systems. AND, before I forget, systems presenting a 'screen' in a lens of one's glasses and a keyboard fixed onto one's sporran (maybe that is why Richmond still wears a kilt; in expectation of the day . . .). Many of these devices have no local storage facilities at all beyond their operating systems, possibly stored on ROM chips or somesuch, everything (including apps) being stored in a cloud or on a dedicated server. Without wishing to pass myself off as some sort of seer (I am NOT the 7th son of a 7th son), I think that there is a chance I may be at least 50% right there. AND . . . in 2030: What we think of as 'Windows' and what we think of as 'Mac', and the conglomeration of related systems we think of as 'Linux' will either be extinct or have transmogrified to such states that they bear little or no resemblance to what they are now. Now, I don't know the exact age of Kevin Miller, but I plan to be a sprightly 77 year-old who is still up to his "light-programming" and his "heavy stirring" on the Use-List and or Forums. What DO KNOW is that Kevin is quite considerably younger than me, and does not indicate any great urge to retire . . . . SO; RunRev should not go chasing platform specific innovations lest they be Boojums [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snark_%28Lewis_Carroll%29 ]. Richmond. From warren at warrensweb.us Sun Aug 18 11:45:05 2013 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 10:45:05 -0500 Subject: Mac/WIndows ASCII characters In-Reply-To: References: <520F0F4C.4080005@pair.com> <520FBB71.90804@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: <5210EC01.4010602@warrensweb.us> On 08/17/2013 03:01 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Do you happen to know if all the entities mentioned there are supported > within htmltext? Per my other post, they're not all mentioned in the > dictionary entry for htmltext LiveCode seems to render all the html entities, in both forms where applicable, listed on this page, under Linux and Windows: https://www.freeformatter.com/html-entities.html You may run into issues of a char not being available using a particular font on a particular system, but LiveCode seems to otherwise be completely fluent in html entities. Warren From dan at clearvisiontech.com Sun Aug 18 12:09:48 2013 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 09:09:48 -0700 Subject: mobileCanMakePhoneCall() ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is there a way to determine if a mobile device can make a call? I'm was hoping to find something like mobileCanMakePhoneCall(). If the user is on an iPad or other device that is not capable of making a phone call, how does the app know? -Dan From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Sun Aug 18 12:18:26 2013 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 17:18:26 +0100 Subject: mobileCanMakePhoneCall() ? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Read the iOS release notes... page 41... the explanation is there ! ...:-) > Subject: mobileCanMakePhoneCall() ? > From: dan at clearvisiontech.com > Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 09:09:48 -0700 > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Is there a way to determine if a mobile device can make a call? I'm was hoping to find something like mobileCanMakePhoneCall(). If the user is on an iPad or other device that is not capable of making a phone call, how does the app know? > > -Dan > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 18 13:17:35 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 12:17:35 -0500 Subject: mobileCanMakePhoneCall() ? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <521101AF.3090705@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/18/13 11:18 AM, John Dixon wrote: > Read the iOS release notes... page 41... the explanation is there ! ...:-) I wish I could find them. The current "Release Notes" item in the Help menu opens a 9-page PDF with almost no info in it. I had to go back to LiveCode 5.5 and open them there. Is there a way to get the info we used to have? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Sun Aug 18 13:20:42 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:20:42 -0400 Subject: mobileCanMakePhoneCall() ? In-Reply-To: <521101AF.3090705@hyperactivesw.com> References: <521101AF.3090705@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I'm having the same trouble finding that info. The Release Notes PDF(s) for all versions of 6.x.x are either 15 pages or 37 pages long. Can't locate page 41. ~Roger On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 1:17 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/18/13 11:18 AM, John Dixon wrote: > >> Read the iOS release notes... page 41... the explanation is there ! ...:-) >> > > I wish I could find them. The current "Release Notes" item in the Help > menu opens a 9-page PDF with almost no info in it. I had to go back to > LiveCode 5.5 and open them there. Is there a way to get the info we used to > have? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dan at clearvisiontech.com Sun Aug 18 13:22:34 2013 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 10:22:34 -0700 Subject: mobileCanMakePhoneCall() ? Message-ID: <96E82FCB-6A69-4235-94D8-753F6AB81513@clearvisiontech.com> John, Thank you for the reply, and I would LOVE to read the iOS Release Notes! But, where are they? They used to be in the "Help" menu... no more! When I choose "Release Notes" in the "Help" menu, I get a 15 page document. Can you direct me to where they are? -Dan > Read the iOS release notes... page 41... the explanation is there ! ...:-) > >> Is there a way to determine if a mobile device can make a call? I'm was hoping to find something like mobileCanMakePhoneCall(). If the user is on an iPad or other device that is not capable of making a phone call, how does the app know? >> >> -Dan From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 18 15:09:04 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 12:09:04 -0700 Subject: Tabstops (was IDE Vs MSG box) Message-ID: The original thread touched on a lot of interesting issues regarding tabstops/tabWidths and how they are entered/interpreted. Carrying on form there, is it time to think about adding the functionality of right and centered tabs to tabstops/widths/some other construct, now that we're in the open source world? I've often wished LC had that capability, especially when working with table fields. Pete lcSQL Software From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Aug 18 16:17:47 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 16:17:47 -0400 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <520EB65E.8070109@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: How about documentation so I can read up on it? I didn't see anything in the docs. On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > On Windows and Linux, you can start a standalone from the command line > with parameteres. The parameters can be found in $0, $1 etc. You can do the > same on Mac OS X, but you will have probems with the GUI. On Windows, you > can also use the relaunch message to decide how a standalone should respond > to the command line. The problem with the command line is that you can fire > the app only once and can't interact. Using sockets, you may have more > control. On Mac OS X, you can use Apple events, but you might also use > sockets. > > If you explain what you want to do exactly, I or someone else might give > you better advice. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour > spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. > > > > > > > On 17 aug 2013, at 19:36, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > I thought there was a way to launch a LC app with parameters, i.e. stdin. > > Maybe I'm thinking of another IDE. > > > > Launching the app isn't the problem. It's passing the parameters to it > at > > launch. I could also create a file somewhere for the app to read. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sun Aug 18 16:40:29 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 22:40:29 +0200 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <520EB65E.8070109@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <5211313D.9040706@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Mike, Search the dictionary for: $ relaunch socket appleEvent Search in the mailing list or on the forum for the same subjects as well as AppleScript (more specifically: tell application "Application Name" to do script myScript as AppleScript). All these subjects are also discussed in the user manual. Sockets are also discussed in my book. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/18/2013 22:17, Mike Kerner wrote: > How about documentation so I can read up on it? I didn't see anything in > the docs. > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Aug 18 18:20:51 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 18:20:51 -0400 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: <5211313D.9040706@economy-x-talk.com> References: <520EB65E.8070109@economy-x-talk.com> <5211313D.9040706@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: applescript will be hard - windows. Sockets are not an option here, but thanks. On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Search the dictionary for: > $ > relaunch > socket > appleEvent > > Search in the mailing list or on the forum for the same subjects as well > as AppleScript (more specifically: tell application "Application Name" to > do script myScript as AppleScript). > > All these subjects are also discussed in the user manual. Sockets are also > discussed in my book. > > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/**xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour > spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" > http://qery.us/3fi > > Fill out this survey please > http://livecodebeginner.**economy-x-talk.com/survey/ > > On 8/18/2013 22:17, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> How about documentation so I can read up on it? I didn't see anything in >> the docs. >> >> > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 18 18:25:01 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:25:01 -0700 Subject: saving part of an SQL SELECT back to the table in the same transaction/ getting order Message-ID: As usual, I'm trying to limit the number of transactions as the lag is more expensive (to the user) than the transaction. I can do something like SELECT name, petname FROM mytable WHERE pettype='cat' ORDER BY petname to get a list ordered by the names of the cats. I'd like, though, to fill that numerical order back into the column, setting column catnum to a value for those entries. It seems that I could do something like WITH SELECT name, petname FROM mytable WHERE pettype='cat' ORDER BY petname UPDATE mytable SET catnum= But I'm not fining anything to get my . It seems kind of silly to do the SELECT, loop about forming a bunch of UPDATE one line statements in LIveCode, and then to feed it back . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jhj at jhj.com Sun Aug 18 18:25:17 2013 From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:25:17 -0700 Subject: Menu newbie confusion Message-ID: <730A4458-1E12-4AA2-87F6-3D601EB52B6F@jhj.com> In all my time with LC, I've never used menus - until now. I'm having some trouble getting the hang of it. I'm using LC Community 6.1.0 on OSX 10.8.4 . I'm simply trying to add a menu of my own to the mac menu bar with a disabled item. I have made one with the Menu Builder in a new empty stack. When I tick the "Disabled" box of an item using the Menu Builder, I'd like to see it "grayed-out" in the menu when its pulled down. Instead, its simply empty white space. I have tried setting the text colors of the button that is the menu, using the Project Browser but it doesn't seem to change anything. What am I missing? Pointers to documentation gratefully accepted. Cheer, Jerry From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sun Aug 18 18:26:15 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 00:26:15 +0200 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <520EB65E.8070109@economy-x-talk.com> <5211313D.9040706@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <1E17A162-4E30-4429-85BF-EB3BA10BE02D@economy-x-talk.com> Mike, You still haven't explained what you want to do. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. On 19 aug 2013, at 00:20, Mike Kerner wrote: > applescript will be hard - windows. Sockets are not an option here, but > thanks. > From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 18 18:27:26 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:27:26 -0700 Subject: loading time much faster on slower machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: (the faster machine taking notably longer than the slower machine to open livecode and a file). On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Ah well. I give. If you find a solution let me know, i'm curious now. *blush* This could, ahh, be explained if, perhaps, the postgres server is running on the slower machine, and the faster machine connects through a VPN . . . D'oh -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 18 18:29:45 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:29:45 -0700 Subject: An SQL query to return an UPDATE for the results? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: >> I'm only getting the results from the second query. If done separately, >> I get multiple rows from the first query. > That's what I'd expect, the results of the second query ovewrite the > results of the first SELECT. What you need is "SELECT . > UNION SELECT Thank you. And I'll need to add a cup of cleverness to align the field types for the first few entries of the table with far fewer columns (after that, I can just select a bunch of NULL. . . ) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 18 18:34:00 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:34:00 -0700 Subject: IDE versus MSG Box - Field Tabstops In-Reply-To: <70170357139.20130817175129@ahsoftware.net> References: <76C9307C-F8D6-4CB5-94E3-73E5AA0FD936@netrin.com> <70170357139.20130817175129@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Saturday, August 17, 2013, 4:04:38 PM, you wrote: >> And there is the question of what to return if asked for Name and there is >> no name for the exact color. The nearest color? RGB instead? > theColorThatShallNotBeNamed Gosh, we haven't had to worry about that color since the Bad Times virus ran amock . . .(and the toilet seat still doesn't work right. At least I didn't have a dog . . .) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 18 18:54:40 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:54:40 -0700 Subject: saving part of an SQL SELECT back to the table in the same transaction/ getting order In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <101249748015.20130818155440@ahsoftware.net> Sunday, August 18, 2013, 3:25:01 PM, you wrote: > It seems kind of silly to do the SELECT, loop about forming a bunch of > UPDATE one line statements in LIveCode, and then to feed it back . . . Some stored procedures may come to the rescue here. And once those are working, maybe triggering them on an insert or update, but that may be overkill. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 18 19:20:07 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 16:20:07 -0700 Subject: An SQL query to return an UPDATE for the results? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 3:29 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > And I'll need to add a cup of cleverness to align the field types for > the first few entries of the table with far fewer columns (after that, > I can just select a bunch of NULL. . . ) > Yes, forgot to mention that there must be the same number of columns in all the SELECTs. Pete lcSQL Software From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 18 20:06:55 2013 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 08:06:55 +0800 Subject: Menu newbie confusion In-Reply-To: <730A4458-1E12-4AA2-87F6-3D601EB52B6F@jhj.com> References: <730A4458-1E12-4AA2-87F6-3D601EB52B6F@jhj.com> Message-ID: There is something flaky with the Menu Builder If you watch the Menu Buider you'll see for Menu Items it simply puts an open bracket '(' before the Item Name. Why this is making the name disappear and not come back I don't know, BUT if you manually or via script simply add or remove the '(' the Item Name will gray as expected; at least it does for me LC 6.1.1 rc 2 OS X 10.8.4 HTH On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:25 AM, Jerry Jensen wrote: > In all my time with LC, I've never used menus - until now. I'm having some > trouble getting the hang of it. I'm using LC Community 6.1.0 on OSX 10.8.4 . > > I'm simply trying to add a menu of my own to the mac menu bar with a > disabled item. I have made one with the Menu Builder in a new empty stack. > When I tick the "Disabled" box of an item using the Menu Builder, I'd like > to see it "grayed-out" in the menu when its pulled down. Instead, its > simply empty white space. > > I have tried setting the text colors of the button that is the menu, using > the Project Browser but it doesn't seem to change anything. > > What am I missing? Pointers to documentation gratefully accepted. > > Cheer, > Jerry > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jhj at jhj.com Sun Aug 18 23:02:03 2013 From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 20:02:03 -0700 Subject: Menu newbie confusion In-Reply-To: References: <730A4458-1E12-4AA2-87F6-3D601EB52B6F@jhj.com> Message-ID: <46AEB8E4-A939-4AC6-96FB-0213D7125202@jhj.com> Eureka! That works. So the Menu Builder is in the same doghouse as the Geometry Manager... Thanks a million, Jerry On Aug 18, 2013, at 5:06 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > There is something flaky with the Menu Builder > > If you watch the Menu Buider you'll see for Menu Items it simply puts an > open bracket '(' before the Item Name. Why this is making the name > disappear and not come back I don't know, BUT if you manually or via script > simply add or remove the '(' the Item Name will gray as expected; at least > it does for me LC 6.1.1 rc 2 OS X 10.8.4 > > HTH > > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:25 AM, Jerry Jensen wrote: > >> In all my time with LC, I've never used menus - until now. I'm having some >> trouble getting the hang of it. I'm using LC Community 6.1.0 on OSX 10.8.4 . >> >> I'm simply trying to add a menu of my own to the mac menu bar with a >> disabled item. I have made one with the Menu Builder in a new empty stack. >> When I tick the "Disabled" box of an item using the Menu Builder, I'd like >> to see it "grayed-out" in the menu when its pulled down. Instead, its >> simply empty white space. >> >> I have tried setting the text colors of the button that is the menu, using >> the Project Browser but it doesn't seem to change anything. >> >> What am I missing? Pointers to documentation gratefully accepted. >> >> Cheer, >> Jerry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jhj at jhj.com Sun Aug 18 23:38:58 2013 From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 20:38:58 -0700 Subject: Menu newbie confusion In-Reply-To: <46AEB8E4-A939-4AC6-96FB-0213D7125202@jhj.com> References: <730A4458-1E12-4AA2-87F6-3D601EB52B6F@jhj.com> <46AEB8E4-A939-4AC6-96FB-0213D7125202@jhj.com> Message-ID: Bugzilla # 11110. Thats decimal. Really. .Jerry On Aug 18, 2013, at 8:02 PM, Jerry Jensen wrote: > Eureka! That works. > > So the Menu Builder is in the same doghouse as the Geometry Manager... > > Thanks a million, > Jerry > > On Aug 18, 2013, at 5:06 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > >> There is something flaky with the Menu Builder >> >> If you watch the Menu Buider you'll see for Menu Items it simply puts an >> open bracket '(' before the Item Name. Why this is making the name >> disappear and not come back I don't know, BUT if you manually or via script >> simply add or remove the '(' the Item Name will gray as expected; at least >> it does for me LC 6.1.1 rc 2 OS X 10.8.4 >> >> HTH >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:25 AM, Jerry Jensen wrote: >> >>> In all my time with LC, I've never used menus - until now. I'm having some >>> trouble getting the hang of it. I'm using LC Community 6.1.0 on OSX 10.8.4 . >>> >>> I'm simply trying to add a menu of my own to the mac menu bar with a >>> disabled item. I have made one with the Menu Builder in a new empty stack. >>> When I tick the "Disabled" box of an item using the Menu Builder, I'd like >>> to see it "grayed-out" in the menu when its pulled down. Instead, its >>> simply empty white space. >>> >>> I have tried setting the text colors of the button that is the menu, using >>> the Project Browser but it doesn't seem to change anything. >>> >>> What am I missing? Pointers to documentation gratefully accepted. >>> >>> Cheer, >>> Jerry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 18 23:46:13 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 20:46:13 -0700 Subject: Menu newbie confusion In-Reply-To: References: <730A4458-1E12-4AA2-87F6-3D601EB52B6F@jhj.com> <46AEB8E4-A939-4AC6-96FB-0213D7125202@jhj.com> Message-ID: <155267240938.20130818204613@ahsoftware.net> Jerry- Sunday, August 18, 2013, 8:38:58 PM, you wrote: > Bugzilla # 11110. Thats decimal. Really. Put another quarter in. If you get two more, maybe it will roll over and you get a new game. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jhj at jhj.com Mon Aug 19 00:07:30 2013 From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 21:07:30 -0700 Subject: Menu newbie confusion In-Reply-To: <155267240938.20130818204613@ahsoftware.net> References: <730A4458-1E12-4AA2-87F6-3D601EB52B6F@jhj.com> <46AEB8E4-A939-4AC6-96FB-0213D7125202@jhj.com> <155267240938.20130818204613@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: I'm chicken. If its Baudot it might go NULL and trigger a singularity. Jacque might want to try this for her sock. .Jerry On Aug 18, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Jerry- > > Sunday, August 18, 2013, 8:38:58 PM, you wrote: > >> Bugzilla # 11110. Thats decimal. Really. > > Put another quarter in. If you get two more, maybe it will roll over > and you get a new game. > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 19 00:57:53 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 21:57:53 -0700 Subject: Menu newbie confusion In-Reply-To: References: <730A4458-1E12-4AA2-87F6-3D601EB52B6F@jhj.com> <46AEB8E4-A939-4AC6-96FB-0213D7125202@jhj.com> <155267240938.20130818204613@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <78271540958.20130818215753@ahsoftware.net> Jerry- Sunday, August 18, 2013, 9:07:30 PM, you wrote: > If its Baudot it might go NULL and trigger a Is that Brigitte Baudot? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jhj at jhj.com Mon Aug 19 01:02:14 2013 From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 22:02:14 -0700 Subject: Menu newbie confusion In-Reply-To: <78271540958.20130818215753@ahsoftware.net> References: <730A4458-1E12-4AA2-87F6-3D601EB52B6F@jhj.com> <46AEB8E4-A939-4AC6-96FB-0213D7125202@jhj.com> <155267240938.20130818204613@ahsoftware.net> <78271540958.20130818215753@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <60F34F73-7E18-46EB-9794-0C9E5A403F6B@jhj.com> On Aug 18, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Jerry- > > Sunday, August 18, 2013, 9:07:30 PM, you wrote: > >> If its Baudot it might go NULL and trigger a > > Is that Brigitte Baudot? Not for 5 bits. .Jerry From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Mon Aug 19 01:42:29 2013 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 22:42:29 -0700 Subject: Menu newbie confusion In-Reply-To: <60F34F73-7E18-46EB-9794-0C9E5A403F6B@jhj.com> References: <730A4458-1E12-4AA2-87F6-3D601EB52B6F@jhj.com> <46AEB8E4-A939-4AC6-96FB-0213D7125202@jhj.com> <155267240938.20130818204613@ahsoftware.net> <78271540958.20130818215753@ahsoftware.net> <60F34F73-7E18-46EB-9794-0C9E5A403F6B@jhj.com> Message-ID: Mark: *"Is that Brigitte Baudot?"* I hear she's running for office. On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:02 PM, Jerry Jensen wrote: > On Aug 18, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > > > Jerry- > > > > Sunday, August 18, 2013, 9:07:30 PM, you wrote: > > > >> If its Baudot it might go NULL and trigger a > > > > Is that Brigitte Baudot? > > Not for 5 bits. > .Jerry > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb From jbv at souslelogo.com Mon Aug 19 05:46:37 2013 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:46:37 -0500 Subject: How on-rev is about to ruin our business Message-ID: <33260fa0636371bd6047e34c5b6531e9.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> Hi list, This is a follow-up to a previous post of mine in which I was questioning on-rev reliability... Recently someone praised the on-rev team for reacting quickly everytime something goes wrong with the servers, but yesterday mySQL has been down on thor from the early morning and despite the 2 urgent support requests I've sent, the server went up again around 4:30pm only... I thought it was a 24/7 service... I've almost lost a full day of work, which already happened during last week... And a new client of ours (for whom we rushed to complete a new app last week) had planed to use the last 3 days to enter all data in her DB for the grand opening of her new store today, but couldn't complete the work because of yesterday's problems and finally she's wondering if she chose the right people for her project... And thor just stalled again... And a couple of days ago thor went off so many times that I had to cancel a software demo with a potential new client who will probably never call us again... In my previous post about on-rev reliability, I also mentioned the problem we had when one of our accounts was moved from thor to pancake, with that random bug appearing in LC scripts that were running fine on thor before the migration... On that account there is an e-commerce site with several pages totally screwed because of that bug, and the owner of the site is losing $$$ every day because several products can't be ordered. I notified the support request twice about it; they said they would investigate but never heard of them since. I just learned that the owner of the site is planing an upgrade and is about to hire other developers... Of course the trick would be to re-write everything in php (php scripts aren't corrupted on pancake) but then what's the point of using on-rev ? Sorry for the bitter tone of this post, but I'd wish everything was working now as fine as it used to work for the first 2 years I've been using on-rev... Does anyone have any idea why this service has become so bad during the past few months ? jbv From jbv at souslelogo.com Mon Aug 19 06:27:33 2013 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 05:27:33 -0500 Subject: LC server experience return anyone ? Message-ID: <1a43f64cdcec8a64c8a1aa83e6361511.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> Hi list, I'd need some experience return on the use of LC server. As mentioned in some of my previous posts, due to the numerous problems we met with on-rev servers and random bugs appearing after the migration of one of our accounts from thor to pancake, we are about to gather all our on-rev accounts into one single account on a dedicated server. On-rev said they would care about the migration themselves but I'm still very anvious about the possibility that something goes wrong again in the process. Furthermore they said the data center hosting the server would be their choice not ours... So I am also exploring other possibilities, like installing LC server on a dedicated server with a data center of our choice with high quality support. Several years ago (before on-rev was available) I had a similar setup using a metacard engine. Things were fine, although we experienced a couple of problems : - communication between the engine and mySQL was quite slow, especially with large amounts of data, and I found out that I'd better ask mySQL to write the results of a SELECT command as a file and then read the file in a mc script - at times the engine would choke mainly because of memory overhead on heavy tasks. I guess several people on this list are using LC server on their own servers, so I'd welcome any useful advice on the best path to follow... Thanks in advance. jbv From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 19 09:26:01 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:26:01 -0700 Subject: Tabstops (was IDE Vs MSG box) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52121CE9.7030707@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > The original thread touched on a lot of interesting issues regarding > tabstops/tabWidths and how they are entered/interpreted. Carrying on form > there, is it time to think about adding the functionality of right and > centered tabs to tabstops/widths/some other construct, now that we're in > the open source world? I've often wished LC had that capability, > especially when working with table fields. A tabAlign property is reserved in the engine, slated for implementation at a future date. At one time it appeared that might be "soon", but I don't recall seeing it on the roadmap so I have no idea where that falls in their priorities at this time. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 19 09:28:07 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:28:07 -0700 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> Mike, these tips for implementing CLI support in a standalone may help: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 19 09:47:23 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:47:23 -0700 Subject: LC server experience return anyone ? In-Reply-To: <1a43f64cdcec8a64c8a1aa83e6361511.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> References: <1a43f64cdcec8a64c8a1aa83e6361511.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <521221EB.1060007@fourthworld.com> jbv wrote: > Several years ago (before on-rev was available) I had a similar setup > using a metacard engine. Things were fine, although we experienced a > couple of problems : > - communication between the engine and mySQL was quite slow, especially > with large amounts of data, and I found out that I'd better ask mySQL to > write the results of a SELECT command as a file and then read the file in > a mc script > - at times the engine would choke mainly because of memory overhead on > heavy tasks. > > I guess several people on this list are using LC server on their own > servers, so I'd welcome any useful advice on the best path to follow... I've used both LC Server and LiveCode-based Linux standalones as CGIs on shared servers, VPSes, and dedicated servers. Performance has been very good overall, though I should note that I have yet to use MySQL with LC Server in a production environment. To a (likely very) small degree, some of the slowdown may be related to the overhead inherent in the externals API. Going from Apache to LC to the externals to the drivers to the MySQL server and back again means a fair bit of overhead. However, while I haven't done any benchmarking on that my hunch is that the overhead there is minor. It seems far more likely that any noticeable lag comes from the load of other users, either on the web server itself or the MySQL server (assuming that the On-Rev uses a separate server for the DB as most shared hosts do). Before dropping $100/mo on a dedicated server, it may be worthwhile testing performance on a VPS, which is generally much cheaper (VPSes start as low as $6/mo at InterServer.com). Most VPS implementations won't give you the performance of a dedicated machine, but for testing that's useful because if you see good performance in a VPS you know it's going to be that much faster in a dedicated server. The one thing a VPS will provide is a more thorough job of isolating your processes from others', which can be helpful for identifying bottlenecks. Perhaps even better would be to set up a test server in your office, using any PC you have lying around unused. Installing Ubuntu Server takes only a few minutes; you'll likely spend more time configuring your Apache config files for the LC CGI (time leveraged when you later move to a production machine). I use a small-form-factor barebones here as a local test server, which is cheap to buy, easy to add RAM and HD/SSD, and allows me to test everything completely independently of external network latency and of course other users. It's also been a great way to learn about basic server admin tasks, and it's always a joy to review the logs to find what a great job Ubuntu's default firewall does with rejecting the many spambot attacks every server gets all day long. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp Mon Aug 19 10:01:07 2013 From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 23:01:07 +0900 Subject: How on-rev is about to ruin our business In-Reply-To: <33260fa0636371bd6047e34c5b6531e9.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> References: <33260fa0636371bd6047e34c5b6531e9.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <52122523.7090103@tkf.att.ne.jp> Dear jbv, I am sorry to hear of your pain! We have been experiencing poor quality from on-rev as well. Fortunately, while a real pain, it is only our own company's email and website that is dependent on them -- not clients' websites! I don't know much about the server product, but I seemed to remember hearing that people were using LC server on Dreamhost. A quick Google got me here: Maybe that thread will contain info that is useful to you. Yours, Tim Selander Tokyo, Japan On 8/19/13 6:46 PM, jbv at souslelogo.com wrote: > Hi list, > > This is a follow-up to a previous post of mine in which I was questioning > on-rev reliability... > Recently someone praised the on-rev team for reacting quickly everytime > something goes > wrong with the servers, but yesterday mySQL has been down on thor from the > early morning and despite the > 2 urgent support requests I've sent, the server went up again around > 4:30pm only... > I thought it was a 24/7 service... > I've almost lost a full day of work, which already happened during last > week... > And a new client of ours (for whom we rushed to complete a new app last > week) had planed > to use the last 3 days to enter all data in her DB for the grand opening > of her new store today, > but couldn't complete the work because of yesterday's problems and finally > she's wondering if > she chose the right people for her project... > And thor just stalled again... > And a couple of days ago thor went off so many times that I had to cancel > a software > demo with a potential new client who will probably never call us again... > > In my previous post about on-rev reliability, I also mentioned the problem > we had when > one of our accounts was moved from thor to pancake, with that random bug > appearing > in LC scripts that were running fine on thor before the migration... > On that account there is an e-commerce site with several pages totally > screwed because > of that bug, and the owner of the site is losing $$$ every day because > several products > can't be ordered. > I notified the support request twice about it; they said they would > investigate but never > heard of them since. I just learned that the owner of the site is planing > an upgrade and > is about to hire other developers... > Of course the trick would be to re-write everything in php (php scripts > aren't corrupted > on pancake) but then what's the point of using on-rev ? > > Sorry for the bitter tone of this post, but I'd wish everything was > working now as fine as > it used to work for the first 2 years I've been using on-rev... > Does anyone have any idea why this service has become so bad during the > past few months ? > > jbv > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 19 10:06:43 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 07:06:43 -0700 Subject: How on-rev is about to ruin our business In-Reply-To: <33260fa0636371bd6047e34c5b6531e9.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> References: <33260fa0636371bd6047e34c5b6531e9.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <52122673.7030303@fourthworld.com> jbv wrote: ... > Recently someone praised the on-rev team for reacting quickly > everytime something goes wrong with the servers, but yesterday > mySQL has been down on thor from the early morning and despite > the 2 urgent support requests I've sent, the server went up again > around 4:30pm only... > I thought it was a 24/7 service... > I've almost lost a full day of work, which already happened during > last week... > And a new client of ours (for whom we rushed to complete a new app > last week) had planed to use the last 3 days to enter all data in her > DB for the grand opening of her new store today, but couldn't > complete the work because of yesterday's problems and finally she's > wondering if she chose the right people for her project... > And thor just stalled again... > And a couple of days ago thor went off so many times that I had to > cancel a software demo with a potential new client who will probably > never call us again... ... > Sorry for the bitter tone of this post, but I'd wish everything was > working now as fine as > it used to work for the first 2 years I've been using on-rev... > Does anyone have any idea why this service has become so bad during > the past few months ? Web hosting is a very difficult business, because it's both very demanding in terms of experience and resources (both machine and human), and returns very low margins. This makes hosting a numbers game, where only those hosts that can bring in sufficiently large numbers of customers can get the ROI needed to cover the high costs of such a service. As such, we've seen significant consolidation in that market over the last decade, with most seeming new companies being really just resellers for others' infrastructure - a great solution that can raise levels of service over commodity hosting while retaining the benefits of a large company's infrastructure. When On-Rev started it was hosted at ThePlanet.com, at the time a large host in Texas with a good reputation, so it seemed the plan was at least somewhat promising, depending on the degree to which RunRev had ThePlanet providing support for the systems. The "Data Center" page for On-Rev describes an infrastructure which would seem to represent a good baseline for any professional hosting service, with multiple redundant T1s, multiple on-site generators, etc.: But now absent from that page is a link to the primary hosting company itself, where it used to link to ThePlanet. RunRev described some time ago that they were moving some materials to new servers in response to the massive increase in traffic they're seeing as a result of going FOSS. It's unclear to me whether those server migrations were limited to the systems they use internally (their web site, mail server, etc.), or whether they also moved the On-Rev servers as well. Going to theplanet.com today redirects to softlayer.com, where we find info on that company's recent acquisition by IBM, and where the range of services offered seems more cloud-specific, rather than general hosting. At the moment I'm unable to determine which company is providing infrastructure for On-Rev, and given the uncommonly high rate of downtime I hope Kevin or someone else from RunRev can step in here and offer additional information about both the infrastructure and plans for providing more customary uptime. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From kevin at runrev.com Mon Aug 19 10:47:23 2013 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 15:47:23 +0100 Subject: How on-rev is about to ruin our business In-Reply-To: <52122673.7030303@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I am sorry to hear you are having trouble with on-Rev. I will investigate your specific issue. Our urgent support is running 24/7 and we do resolve the most issues very quickly. In the mean time it is probably useful for you to be aware that we are investing very heavily in the service at the moment. To put things in perspective, when we originally signed up to create this service we partnered with an independent company with an excellent reputation. We had looked around extensively before making this choice as we wanted to ensure we had a partner we could depend on. It was critical to us that we could provide a high quality, robust platform with excellent customer service to match. Since that time that company has been bought out several times - indeed it appears to be practically an annual occurrence! It has now been acquired by IBM who may or may not do something decent with it. However I can tell you that with every successive owner the service provided slipped and slipped, to the point that it became unworkable. We've had instances of servers being cut off without warning, upgrades incorrectly completed, slow response times and a whole host of other issues. After raising these issues repeatedly and seeing no improvement, we took the decision a few months ago that we needed to move hosting provider. We are in the process of transitioning the entire service to a new platform and have been for some time now. The work is almost completed and once it is completed I know that things will return to a high standard of service. Not only does the new company enjoy an excellent reputation and connectivity, but the hardware we are moving you to is vastly bigger, faster and more capable than the old platform we had several years ago. Migration is no easy process and each account has at least some manual work to be done on it. We have a dedicated engineer working on this full time and another resource available part time. So again, I unreservedly apologize to anyone who has been affected by this situation. I will update you when the new platform is finished. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can code On 19/08/2013 15:06, "Richard Gaskin" wrote: >jbv wrote: >... > > Recently someone praised the on-rev team for reacting quickly > > everytime something goes wrong with the servers, but yesterday > > mySQL has been down on thor from the early morning and despite > > the 2 urgent support requests I've sent, the server went up again > > around 4:30pm only... > > I thought it was a 24/7 service... > > I've almost lost a full day of work, which already happened during > > last week... > > And a new client of ours (for whom we rushed to complete a new app > > last week) had planed to use the last 3 days to enter all data in her > > DB for the grand opening of her new store today, but couldn't > > complete the work because of yesterday's problems and finally she's > > wondering if she chose the right people for her project... > > And thor just stalled again... > > And a couple of days ago thor went off so many times that I had to > > cancel a software demo with a potential new client who will probably > > never call us again... >... > > Sorry for the bitter tone of this post, but I'd wish everything was > > working now as fine as > > it used to work for the first 2 years I've been using on-rev... > > Does anyone have any idea why this service has become so bad during > > the past few months ? > >Web hosting is a very difficult business, because it's both very >demanding in terms of experience and resources (both machine and human), >and returns very low margins. This makes hosting a numbers game, where >only those hosts that can bring in sufficiently large numbers of >customers can get the ROI needed to cover the high costs of such a >service. > >As such, we've seen significant consolidation in that market over the >last decade, with most seeming new companies being really just resellers >for others' infrastructure - a great solution that can raise levels of >service over commodity hosting while retaining the benefits of a large >company's infrastructure. > >When On-Rev started it was hosted at ThePlanet.com, at the time a large >host in Texas with a good reputation, so it seemed the plan was at least >somewhat promising, depending on the degree to which RunRev had >ThePlanet providing support for the systems. > >The "Data Center" page for On-Rev describes an infrastructure which >would seem to represent a good baseline for any professional hosting >service, with multiple redundant T1s, multiple on-site generators, etc.: > > >But now absent from that page is a link to the primary hosting company >itself, where it used to link to ThePlanet. > >RunRev described some time ago that they were moving some materials to >new servers in response to the massive increase in traffic they're >seeing as a result of going FOSS. > >It's unclear to me whether those server migrations were limited to the >systems they use internally (their web site, mail server, etc.), or >whether they also moved the On-Rev servers as well. > >Going to theplanet.com today redirects to softlayer.com, where we find >info on that company's recent acquisition by IBM, and where the range of >services offered seems more cloud-specific, rather than general hosting. > >At the moment I'm unable to determine which company is providing >infrastructure for On-Rev, and given the uncommonly high rate of >downtime I hope Kevin or someone else from RunRev can step in here and >offer additional information about both the infrastructure and plans for >providing more customary uptime. > >-- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Mon Aug 19 12:04:28 2013 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (Jonathan Lynch) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:04:28 -0400 Subject: A peculiar character substitution problem with URL Message-ID: This is just the strangest thing. On some websites - but not all - trying to get the html of that website using "get url" or "put url" is causing some characters to be substituted. These are not obscure unicode characters. They seem to be characters in the upper ANSI set. For example, on this web page: http://emergency.cdc.gov/disasters/wildfires/facts.asp If I use the following code: put URL "http://emergency.cdc.gov/disasters/wildfires/facts.asp" into field 1 The right single quote character --> ? <-- ( which is character number 146) gets converted into ??? I do not understand why ? becomes ??? It does not do this with copy and paste, but it does this when I get the URL. Only, it does not do this with all websites, but it does it with ours, which is extremely inconvenient for my project. Are there any thoughts on what would cause this? I am using version 5.5.1 thanks, Jonathan Lynch -- Do all things with love From sc at sahores-conseil.com Mon Aug 19 12:08:14 2013 From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:08:14 +0200 Subject: How on-rev is about to ruin our business In-Reply-To: <33260fa0636371bd6047e34c5b6531e9.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> References: <33260fa0636371bd6047e34c5b6531e9.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <0D2D0988-6764-4EED-83E6-32EB95D665E2@sahores-conseil.com> Le 19 ao?t 2013 ? 11:46, jbv at souslelogo.com a ?crit : > In my previous post about on-rev reliability, I also mentioned the problem > we had when > one of our accounts was moved from thor to pancake, with that random bug > appearing > in LC scripts that were running fine on thor before the migration? As soon as thePlanet hosting service went sold to Softlayer, i experienced, alike many others around, problems with my loki's account revServer hosted apps whose never occurred before. After the migration of this account to pancake, i just had to update some PostgreSQL requests (see, in the lists archive, my previous post about the subject; i never use MySQL to empower production apps...) to get all my revServer and LC-server powered apps back to a perfect level of QOS and availability (PingDom monthly tests always over 99,99% and, even, at 100% in july 2013). > On that account there is an e-commerce site with several pages totally > screwed because > of that bug, and the owner of the site is losing $$$ every day because > several products > can't be ordered. What e-commerce framework is in cause : Magento, Prestashop, Drupal Commerce, other PHP+MySQL solution, LC-Server one ? -- Pierre Sahores mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 www.sahores-conseil.com From dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk Mon Aug 19 13:12:00 2013 From: dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:12:00 +0100 Subject: A peculiar character substitution problem with URL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96E20ABE-A548-4CDF-AE56-0C4FD1628BCB@lacscentre.co.uk> On 19 Aug 2013, at 17:04, Jonathan Lynch wrote: > This is just the strangest thing. On some websites - but not all - trying > to get the html of that website using "get url" or "put url" is causing > some characters to be substituted. > > These are not obscure unicode characters. They seem to be characters in the > upper ANSI set. > > For example, on this web page: > http://emergency.cdc.gov/disasters/wildfires/facts.asp > > If I use the following code: > > put URL "http://emergency.cdc.gov/disasters/wildfires/facts.asp" into field > 1 > > The right single quote character --> ? <-- ( which is character number 146) > gets converted into ??? > > > I do not understand why ? becomes ??? > Jonathan, The page source for the url indicates the page is encoded as UTF-8. This is from the 'head' section of the page. So it looks like it may be 'obscure unicode characters'. :-) What happens when you do something like this: put URL "http://emergency.cdc.gov/disasters/wildfires/facts.asp" into tTemp put uniDecode(uniEncode(tTemp, "UTF8")) into field 1 Cheers Dave Cragg From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 19 14:07:30 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 21:07:30 +0300 Subject: How keeping all your eggs in one basket is going to ruin your business. Message-ID: <52125EE2.3030205@gmail.com> Faintly moralistic diatribe follows: serious programmers can tune out now. -------------***----------- So; having f**ked up so many times I've lost count, I backup everything onto 3 sets of external hard disks (one which travels with me in my 'hand-bag'), and really super-vital stuff also gets stored on a server somewhere. I have 2 sources of income that are in absolutely no way connected with each other: 1. A constant low level income. 2. A potentially far higher fluctuating sources of revenue (my EFL school). and some backups: 3. My wife's income as a junior professor at a University. 4. Property. ------- I hold University degrees in Philosophy, Applied Linguistics, and I.T. These make me qualified for at least 3 types of work. ------- Now I am NOT the paragon of everything, far from it, but I do believe it is not a bad thing to have a 'Plan B', and whatever is necessary so that that Plan B is not 'B' for Bullsh*t. ------------------ I don't know much about execution by hanging beyond that when they kick the stool from under you you dance on air until you are fortunate enough for somebody to pull on your legs to snap your neck. If you are clever enough to manage to get your left leg on the hangman's ladder when the stool is kicked from under you you stand at least a small change of being cut-down alive. ------------------ I don't know all that much about relying on on-rev for business beyond the fact that my website is lodged there and some are the demos of my "main thang", and once or twice people have contacted me directly as they have been unable to download a demo just then. ------------------ However good, or bad, on-rev may be (and I suspect it is like most things: good in parts) it does seem daft to start talking about "How on-rev is about to ruin our business" in rather the same way as an old man may get stroppy if some teenager kicks his walking stick from under him, and because he has been fool enough to rely on it completely he falls over. On-rev will only "ruin" a business if a businessperson is daft enough to rely solely on it, just as much as I went 'bottom up' when my computer I had at the time and my single backup went west simultaneously. --------***------- That's my 99 cents, Richmond. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 19 15:03:24 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:03:24 -0500 Subject: Unicode in variables Message-ID: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> I need to read and process a tab-delimited text file that is in UTF8 format containing unicode. The final goal is to get it into an array with the first tabbed item as the keys, preserving all unicode. There are some HTML format tags in it as well. If I read the file as binfile, carriage returns are all lost. Reading it as "file:" and trying to simply convert the entire text block has failed (and crashed) more ways than I can record here. How do I get hundreds of lines of unicode text into an array? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Aug 19 15:15:23 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 19:15:23 +0000 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Aug 19, 2013, at 1:03 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I need to read and process a tab-delimited text file that is in UTF8 format containing unicode. The final goal is to get it into an array with the first tabbed item as the keys, preserving all unicode. There are some HTML format tags in it as well. > > If I read the file as binfile, carriage returns are all lost. Jacque, Where are the files coming from? Maybe they're using ASCII 13 as a line terminator, or ASCII 10 + 13. Can't you replace whatever the native line delimiter is with numToChar(10)? Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 19 15:18:48 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 22:18:48 +0300 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52126F98.50805@gmail.com> On 08/19/2013 10:03 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I need to read and process a tab-delimited text file that is in UTF8 > format containing unicode. The final goal is to get it into an array > with the first tabbed item as the keys, preserving all unicode. There > are some HTML format tags in it as well. > > If I read the file as binfile, carriage returns are all lost. > > Reading it as "file:" and trying to simply convert the entire text > block has failed (and crashed) more ways than I can record here. > > How do I get hundreds of lines of unicode text into an array? > At the risk of being way off base and totally goofy . . . How about running through the UTF8 text and doing a search and replace? The Happy Internet tells me that the END OF LINE char is UTF 16 U+000A, UTF 8 0x0A or Decimal 10. CR in UTF is U+000D, UTF 8 0x0D or Decimal 13. Merry ASCII is also 10 and/or 13 (a pain in the 'btm'). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 19 15:21:38 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 22:21:38 +0300 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52126F98.50805@gmail.com> References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> <52126F98.50805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52127042.7020103@gmail.com> "LF: Line Feed, U+000A VT: Vertical Tab, U+000B FF: Form Feed, U+000C CR: Carriage Return, U+000D CR+LF: CR (U+000D) followed by LF (U+000A) NEL: Next Line, U+0085 LS: Line Separator, U+2028 PS: Paragraph Separator, U+2029" I have a feeling that a search and replace routine should trawl through your target text and replace ALL the above with numToChar(10). Richmond. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 19 15:29:57 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:29:57 -0500 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52127235.2030004@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/19/13 2:15 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > > On Aug 19, 2013, at 1:03 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> I need to read and process a tab-delimited text file that is in >> UTF8 format containing unicode. The final goal is to get it into an >> array with the first tabbed item as the keys, preserving all >> unicode. There are some HTML format tags in it as well. >> >> If I read the file as binfile, carriage returns are all lost. > > Jacque, > > Where are the files coming from? Maybe they're using ASCII 13 as a > line terminator, or ASCII 10 + 13. Can't you replace whatever the > native line delimiter is with numToChar(10)? I forgot about that. They're ascii 13, and replacing them does keep the line breaks. Thanks. When I run uniEncode(tData,"UTF8") on it, the high-ascii characters are in the variable watcher as "+" and an unprintable box. Can I assume the real character is in there? Will it work for text chunking, etc? When I split it into an array, will the keys be intact? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 19 15:31:37 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:31:37 -0500 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52127042.7020103@gmail.com> References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> <52126F98.50805@gmail.com> <52127042.7020103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52127299.4040607@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/19/13 2:21 PM, Richmond wrote: > "LF: Line Feed, U+000A > VT: Vertical Tab, U+000B > FF: Form Feed, U+000C > CR: Carriage Return, U+000D > CR+LF: CR (U+000D) followed by LF (U+000A) > NEL: Next Line, U+0085 > LS: Line Separator, U+2028 > PS: Paragraph Separator, U+2029" > > I have a feeling that a search and replace routine should trawl through > your target text > and replace ALL the above with numToChar(10). Thanks for your trouble Richmond. I just did a replace on numtochar(13) and it worked okay. I swore I would not touch unicode until the rewrite was done. Famous last words. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 19 15:41:35 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 22:41:35 +0300 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52127299.4040607@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> <52126F98.50805@gmail.com> <52127042.7020103@gmail.com> <52127299.4040607@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <521274EF.5040809@gmail.com> On 08/19/2013 10:31 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/19/13 2:21 PM, Richmond wrote: >> "LF: Line Feed, U+000A >> VT: Vertical Tab, U+000B >> FF: Form Feed, U+000C >> CR: Carriage Return, U+000D >> CR+LF: CR (U+000D) followed by LF (U+000A) >> NEL: Next Line, U+0085 >> LS: Line Separator, U+2028 >> PS: Paragraph Separator, U+2029" >> >> I have a feeling that a search and replace routine should trawl through >> your target text >> and replace ALL the above with numToChar(10). > > Thanks for your trouble Richmond. I just did a replace on > numtochar(13) and it worked okay. > > I swore I would not touch unicode until the rewrite was done. Famous > last words. > Personally I don't know what all the fuss is about: Unicode 'as is' or, maybe 'as was', i.e. LC 4.5 works just fine for my purposes. Richmond. From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Aug 19 15:43:18 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 19:43:18 +0000 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52127235.2030004@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127235.2030004@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Aug 19, 2013, at 1:29 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/19/13 2:15 PM, Devin Asay wrote: >> >> On Aug 19, 2013, at 1:03 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> I need to read and process a tab-delimited text file that is in >>> UTF8 format containing unicode. The final goal is to get it into an >>> array with the first tabbed item as the keys, preserving all >>> unicode. There are some HTML format tags in it as well. >>> >>> If I read the file as binfile, carriage returns are all lost. >> >> Jacque, >> >> Where are the files coming from? Maybe they're using ASCII 13 as a >> line terminator, or ASCII 10 + 13. Can't you replace whatever the >> native line delimiter is with numToChar(10)? > > I forgot about that. They're ascii 13, and replacing them does keep the line breaks. Thanks. > > When I run uniEncode(tData,"UTF8") on it, the high-ascii characters are in the variable watcher as "+" and an unprintable box. Can I assume the real character is in there? Will it work for text chunking, etc? When I split it into an array, will the keys be intact? I would do all of the chunking and splitting before you do uniEncode. Think of UTF8 as a reliable storage format, and only convert them when you are ready to display them. Devin Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University http://university.livecode.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 19 15:59:04 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:59:04 -0500 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127235.2030004@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/19/13 2:43 PM, Devin Asay wrote: >> When I run uniEncode(tData,"UTF8") on it, the high-ascii characters >> are in the variable watcher as "+" and an unprintable box. Can I >> assume the real character is in there? Will it work for text >> chunking, etc? When I split it into an array, will the keys be >> intact? > > I would do all of the chunking and splitting before you do uniEncode. > Think of UTF8 as a reliable storage format, and only convert them > when you are ready to display them. I can't. I need to do lookups on the keys. The keys have to match the text as it is displayed in fields. Basically, I'm storing a glossary. The keys are the glossary terms, some of which are unicode. The definitions are the elements. The user points to a word in a field and I need to retrieve the definition by matching the displayed field text (which is unicodetext) with the glossary key. I can't make it work. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Aug 19 16:07:09 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:07:09 +0000 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127235.2030004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Aug 19, 2013, at 1:59 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/19/13 2:43 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > >>> When I run uniEncode(tData,"UTF8") on it, the high-ascii characters >>> are in the variable watcher as "+" and an unprintable box. Can I >>> assume the real character is in there? Will it work for text >>> chunking, etc? When I split it into an array, will the keys be >>> intact? >> >> I would do all of the chunking and splitting before you do uniEncode. >> Think of UTF8 as a reliable storage format, and only convert them >> when you are ready to display them. > > I can't. I need to do lookups on the keys. The keys have to match the > text as it is displayed in fields. > > Basically, I'm storing a glossary. The keys are the glossary terms, some > of which are unicode. The definitions are the elements. The user points to a word in a field and I need to retrieve the definition by matching the displayed field text (which is unicodetext) with the glossary key. > > I can't make it work. Try this: When the user selects the text to look up, convert it to utf8 then do the lookup on the utf8 text. UTF8 is just ASCII chars, so chunking and searches should work fine. Something like this should work: User clicks term to look up. get the text of the click line -- this will be displayed as UTF16 put unidecode(it,"utf8") into tSearchStr put glossaryArray[tSearchStr] into tDefinitionUTF8 set the unicodeText of fld "definition" to uniencode(tDefinitionUTF8,"utf8") This is not tested, but I've done things similar to this before with good success. HTH Devin Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University http://university.livecode.com From index at kenjikojima.com Mon Aug 19 16:08:22 2013 From: index at kenjikojima.com (index at kenjikojima.com) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 16:08:22 -0400 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127235.2030004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: This is unicode array. go to url "http://kenjikojima.com/livecode/download/unicodeArray.livecode" I hope it helps, -- Kenji Kojima / ???? http://www.kenjikojima.com/ From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 19 16:20:12 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 15:20:12 -0500 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127235.2030004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52127DFC.8000700@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/19/13 3:08 PM, index at kenjikojima.com wrote: > This is unicode array. > > go to url "http://kenjikojima.com/livecode/download/unicodeArray.livecode" > > I hope it helps, Thank you. I will try this if I have to, but the data is very large and stepping through each character would take a long time. I'll keep your stack for reference though, in case I need to do that. Thanks for sending it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 19 16:22:12 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 15:22:12 -0500 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127235.2030004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52127E74.1080507@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/19/13 3:07 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > > On Aug 19, 2013, at 1:59 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 8/19/13 2:43 PM, Devin Asay wrote: >> >>>> When I run uniEncode(tData,"UTF8") on it, the high-ascii characters >>>> are in the variable watcher as "+" and an unprintable box. Can I >>>> assume the real character is in there? Will it work for text >>>> chunking, etc? When I split it into an array, will the keys be >>>> intact? >>> >>> I would do all of the chunking and splitting before you do uniEncode. >>> Think of UTF8 as a reliable storage format, and only convert them >>> when you are ready to display them. >> >> I can't. I need to do lookups on the keys. The keys have to match the >> text as it is displayed in fields. >> >> Basically, I'm storing a glossary. The keys are the glossary terms, some >> of which are unicode. The definitions are the elements. The user points to a word in a field and I need to retrieve the definition by matching the displayed field text (which is unicodetext) with the glossary key. >> >> I can't make it work. > > Try this: > > When the user selects the text to look up, convert it to utf8 then do the lookup on the utf8 text. UTF8 is just ASCII chars, so chunking and searches should work fine. > > Something like this should work: > User clicks term to look up. > get the text of the click line -- this will be displayed as UTF16 > put unidecode(it,"utf8") into tSearchStr > put glossaryArray[tSearchStr] into tDefinitionUTF8 > set the unicodeText of fld "definition" to uniencode(tDefinitionUTF8,"utf8") > > This is not tested, but I've done things similar to this before with good success. Thanks, I'll try it. The glossary is only one piece of a much bigger data set involving a lot of different types of lookups, and this is going to be a huge pain. I'm going to have to rewrite a large part of the existing code base. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Aug 19 16:27:33 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:27:33 +0000 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52127E74.1080507@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127235.2030004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> <52127E74.1080507@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <9E432E36-A18B-461D-8784-307D61674AE9@byu.edu> On Aug 19, 2013, at 2:22 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/19/13 3:07 PM, Devin Asay wrote: >> >> Something like this should work: >> User clicks term to look up. >> get the text of the click line -- this will be displayed as UTF16 Sorry, that should have been get the unicodeText of the clickLine D Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University http://university.livecode.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 19 16:41:55 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:41:55 -0700 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52128313.9060002@fourthworld.com> Jacque wrote: > Basically, I'm storing a glossary. The keys are the glossary terms, some > of which are unicode. The definitions are the elements. The user points > to a word in a field and I need to retrieve the definition by matching > the displayed field text (which is unicodetext) with the glossary key. I can't find where this is mentioned in the docs, but historically there was a caution against using anything but alphanumeric ASCII characters for key names. In my experience that's more strict than it needs to be, but if the format of encoded arrays is any clue there may still be a restriction on having NULL bytes in a key name. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 19 16:53:38 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 15:53:38 -0500 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52128313.9060002@fourthworld.com> References: <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> <52128313.9060002@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <521285D2.4090802@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/19/13 3:41 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Jacque wrote: >> Basically, I'm storing a glossary. The keys are the glossary terms, some >> of which are unicode. The definitions are the elements. The user points >> to a word in a field and I need to retrieve the definition by matching >> the displayed field text (which is unicodetext) with the glossary key. > > I can't find where this is mentioned in the docs, but historically there > was a caution against using anything but alphanumeric ASCII characters > for key names. > > In my experience that's more strict than it needs to be, but if the > format of encoded arrays is any clue there may still be a restriction on > having NULL bytes in a key name. I'm glad you warned me before I got too far. I've thought of a fallback that may work. I am able to convert the entire file into html with some silly convolutions. Using a variation on Devin's trick, I'm thinking I could get the htmltext of the mousechunk and match *that* against the keys, which would also be html. Might work. Here's a test script showing how I get the html: on mouseup -- 3x faster using templatefield answer file empty if it = "" then exit to top put it into tFile put url ("file:" & tFile) into tData put uniEncode(tData,"UTF8") into tData set the unicodetext of the templatefield to tData get the htmltext of the templatefield replace "<" with "<" in it replace ">" with ">" in it replace "&bull;" with "•" in it set the htmltext of fld 1 to it end mouseup We're using a very limited set of html tags, so the three replacements in the script are all I need. This largely works except that after I split the data, some of the keys are in html. There is also the problem of

tags around each line but I can deal with that. If anyone knows a better way to convert to html, I'm all ears. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 19 17:24:17 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 07:24:17 +1000 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52128313.9060002@fourthworld.com> References: <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> <52128313.9060002@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 20/08/2013, at 6:41 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > In my experience that's more strict than it needs to be, but if the format of encoded arrays is any clue there may still be a restriction on having NULL bytes in a key name. Which would count out utf16. Jacque why not uniDecode(theKey,"UTF8") in order to use it as a key in the array? Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 19 18:27:45 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 15:27:45 -0700 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <52127E74.1080507@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127235.2030004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> <52127E74.1080507@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 1:22 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > Thanks, I'll try it. The glossary is only one piece of a much bigger data > set involving a lot of different types of lookups, and this is going to be > a huge pain. I'm going to have to rewrite a large part of the existing code > base. If you have to rewrite you code base and there's lots of different lookups involved, maybe an SQLite database would work? I believe the default encoding for SQLite is UTF8 so it should be possible to set up a simple table with an indexed key column and a data column, then just load and select the data without any conversion. However, I've never done anything like this with SQLite so it may not be as simple as I think it is. Devin probably can comment on that. Pete lcSQL Software From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 19 18:50:38 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 17:50:38 -0500 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: References: <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> <52128313.9060002@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5212A13E.8070906@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/19/13 4:24 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > Jacque why not uniDecode(theKey,"UTF8") in order to use it as a key in the array? It drops or alters characters. The glossary is used a few different ways, and sometimes I need to display all the keys in a field, to act as an index of terms. So it all has to stay intact. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bogdanoff at me.com Mon Aug 19 18:51:41 2013 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 15:51:41 -0700 Subject: HTML entities not displaying on Chinese Windows Message-ID: <85456EE1-1F5A-499B-B562-A89A7484ADFC@me.com> Hi all, The music history e-book we've been working on for the last couple of years has gotten to the point of having some people in China now translate large parts of it to Chinese. However when they open the compiled version on their Windows machines they see funny characters wherever we use an HTML entity in the HTMLtext of fields. Em dash, double quotation marks, accents, etc., all show this. In our classroom use of it, Chinese students at UCLA don't complain about this problem. I don't know much about system settings in Windows, but I see Chinese characters in the system settings for some of the UCLA students whom I have to do other kinds of tech support. What could be different about the Windows systems in Shanghai--at least two different people report the same issue? These people are grad music students, not computer nerds, so I don't have much to go on. I had them install the Georgia and Helvetica fonts, which are all we use, and probably what they had to begin with. I also had to strip out all those characters in the version I finally sent them to translate so they could work. We want to sell the program there eventually--there's a large market there for Western music education, so this worries me. Any suggestions? Peter Bogdanoff UCLA From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 19 19:07:47 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:07:47 +1000 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: <5212A13E.8070906@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> <52128313.9060002@fourthworld.com> <5212A13E.8070906@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <40E9699D-4247-4EAA-9C3F-92944DF159CD@sweattechnologies.com> On 20/08/2013, at 8:50 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > It drops or alters characters. I'm not sure what you mean. UTF8 can represent all the unicode code points. > The glossary is used a few different ways, and sometimes I need to display all the keys in a field, to act as an index of terms. So it all has to stay intact. You should be able to create your list in UTF8 then uniEncode(theList,"UTF8") to set the unicodeText of the field. Then uniDecode a given line to use as a key. I hadn't read the whole thread.. looks like Devin suggested the same thing. Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 19 19:06:09 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:06:09 -0500 Subject: Unicode in variables In-Reply-To: References: <52126BFC.2090004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127235.2030004@hyperactivesw.com> <52127908.1070903@hyperactivesw.com> <52127E74.1080507@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5212A4E1.10004@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/19/13 5:27 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > If you have to rewrite you code base and there's lots of different lookups > involved, maybe an SQLite database would work? The lookups search custom properties and script variables mostly. But I'm not sure that moving the problem to a database would solve things; I'm still stuck with the discrepancy between visual text and unicode text. Also, this is the project where I can't use external files. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pmbrig at gmail.com Mon Aug 19 22:43:52 2013 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 22:43:52 -0400 Subject: Windows standalone puzzle Message-ID: <13344C8D-6333-4354-9120-EFFAB97539DF@gmail.com> So I have a small LC standalone built for Windows on a Mac, used as a utility at work on a dumb PC terminal at my office that is networked to a server. I DL the the utility to my (networked) Windows desktop and it helps me by storing boilerplate text that I can use to paste into the new electronic medical record when I write notes. It has mostly been working fine, but one feature works on the desktop/development environment but suddenly has stopped working on in the standalone in Windows. It's a function that truncates lines of a stored list of short phrases ("snippets") to put into a popup button. The shorten() function runs through a cr-delimited list of phrases and truncates the lines if they are longer than 75 chars, inserting a "?" in the middle of the string. The popup button then displays the truncated lines rather than the whole lines (which may in some cases be long enough that the popup menu would be annoyingly wide). When the user selects the string from the popup, the corresponding snippet from the list of unaltered snippets is put on the clipboard. That whole process works great as designed using the pre-loaded snippets, but the shorten() function throws an error when it's called by a handler that adds a new snippet entered by the user. That is what is broken. I finally pinned this down by wrapping the function call in a "try" structure and putting the "catch tErr" result into a text field, and it identifies the culprit as residing in the shorten()handler -- "error in function handler." Can anyone see why the following works on a Mac in the IDE and works on the Mac with development tools suspended, but doesn't work in the standalone on a Windows platform? I'm stuck. The development cycle is made quite cumbersome by the fact that I don't have a Windows machine to develop this on. function shorten tList repeat with n = 1 to the number of lines of tList put line n of tList into lineText if length(lineText) < 75 then next repeat put empty into tBefore put empty into tAfter if char 43 of line n of tList = space then put space into tBefore end if if char -25 of line n of tList = space then put space into tAfter end if put tBefore & "..." & tAfter into char 43 to -25 of of line n of tList -- 3 periods, not a numtochar(201) end repeat return tList end shorten -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Mon Aug 19 23:32:10 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 03:32:10 +0000 Subject: community vs commercial for internal distribution of iOS apps Message-ID: <07DDA1D9-11BA-42B3-9AB4-2DA76AD44D51@unimelb.edu.au> I've been looking at the FAQs, and in particular this question... Can you give me some examples of where I do and don't need a commercial license? ... and I'm still not exactly clear on where I stand. My situation is that I am distributing apps to students within my institution using an iOS Enterprise Developer license. The apps are hosted on one of our sites and are can be downloaded by anyone but they will only work for our students as they require users to logon securely through the uni's authentication system. I've been distributing these up to now using a commercial license but I'm wondering whether this is necessary. The pertinent question seems to be - do I need to distribute the source code to students to be within the terms of the community license? Terry... Dr Terry Judd Senior Lecturer in Medical Education Medical Education Unit Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences The University of Melbourne From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Mon Aug 19 23:37:30 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 03:37:30 +0000 Subject: Preventing screen capture hot key combinations Message-ID: <17FABB71-71AC-4DE9-8DE3-528B05E5DF67@unimelb.edu.au> Is it possible to prevent the system screen capture hot key combinations from operating while a LC app is active? I'm thinking OSX here in particular but I'd need a cross-platform (Mac + Windows) solution. On OSX, I can detect whether the command and shift keys are depressed OK but the system get the info first so the screen capture still happens. External? Terry... Dr Terry Judd Senior Lecturer in Medical Education Medical Education Unit Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences The University of Melbourne From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 20 01:11:51 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 22:11:51 -0700 Subject: Preventing screen capture hot key combinations In-Reply-To: <17FABB71-71AC-4DE9-8DE3-528B05E5DF67@unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: Even if you could get this to work, I'm not sure what good it would do. If LiveCode is active but is not the foreground application, screenshots would still be possible. There are also probably a dozen third party screen capture tools as well. You might be able to hide the application (or somehow alter the display) if it's not the foreground app, but is this a desirable user experience? Plus, there's always the photo/video of the screen option. If you're trying to protect whatever you're displaying on the screen, perhaps you could consider something like a watermark. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/19/13 8:37 PM, "Terry Judd" wrote: >Is it possible to prevent the system screen capture hot key combinations >from operating while a LC app is active? I'm thinking OSX here in >particular but I'd need a cross-platform (Mac + Windows) solution. > >On OSX, I can detect whether the command and shift keys are depressed OK >but the system get the info first so the screen capture still happens. > >External? > >Terry... > >Dr Terry Judd >Senior Lecturer in Medical Education >Medical Education Unit >Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences >The University of Melbourne > > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Tue Aug 20 02:13:18 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 06:13:18 +0000 Subject: Preventing screen capture hot key combinations In-Reply-To: References: <17FABB71-71AC-4DE9-8DE3-528B05E5DF67@unimelb.edu.au>, Message-ID: Hi Scott - it's for running MCQ tests where the questions and responses need to be protected (medical progress testing). The tests will be run in an invigilated environment but we're looking to minimize the potential for copying as much as possible. There is a commercial solution that uses a customized 'locked down' browser that purports to prevent screen capture but it's pretty expensive. Hiding the app on suspend works well and I can easily empty the clipboard, but the hot key thing is a definite barrier. Terry... Sent from my iPhone On 20/08/2013, at 3:12 PM, "Scott Rossi" wrote: > Even if you could get this to work, I'm not sure what good it would do. > If LiveCode is active but is not the foreground application, screenshots > would still be possible. There are also probably a dozen third party > screen capture tools as well. You might be able to hide the application > (or somehow alter the display) if it's not the foreground app, but is this > a desirable user experience? Plus, there's always the photo/video of the > screen option. > > If you're trying to protect whatever you're displaying on the screen, > perhaps you could consider something like a watermark. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/19/13 8:37 PM, "Terry Judd" wrote: > >> Is it possible to prevent the system screen capture hot key combinations >> from operating while a LC app is active? I'm thinking OSX here in >> particular but I'd need a cross-platform (Mac + Windows) solution. >> >> On OSX, I can detect whether the command and shift keys are depressed OK >> but the system get the info first so the screen capture still happens. >> >> External? >> >> Terry... >> >> Dr Terry Judd >> Senior Lecturer in Medical Education >> Medical Education Unit >> Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences >> The University of Melbourne >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 20 02:27:54 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 23:27:54 -0700 Subject: Preventing screen capture hot key combinations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ah, perhaps an external would be the way to go then. And BTW, nice word of the day: invigilated Never heard this one before. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/19/13 11:13 PM, "Terry Judd" wrote: >Hi Scott - it's for running MCQ tests where the questions and responses >need to be protected (medical progress testing). The tests will be run in >an invigilated environment but we're looking to minimize the potential >for copying as much as possible. There is a commercial solution that uses >a customized 'locked down' browser that purports to prevent screen >capture but it's pretty expensive. > >Hiding the app on suspend works well and I can easily empty the >clipboard, but the hot key thing is a definite barrier. > >Terry... > >Sent from my iPhone > >On 20/08/2013, at 3:12 PM, "Scott Rossi" wrote: > >> Even if you could get this to work, I'm not sure what good it would do. >> If LiveCode is active but is not the foreground application, screenshots >> would still be possible. There are also probably a dozen third party >> screen capture tools as well. You might be able to hide the application >> (or somehow alter the display) if it's not the foreground app, but is >>this >> a desirable user experience? Plus, there's always the photo/video of >>the >> screen option. >> >> If you're trying to protect whatever you're displaying on the screen, >> perhaps you could consider something like a watermark. >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> >> On 8/19/13 8:37 PM, "Terry Judd" wrote: >> >>> Is it possible to prevent the system screen capture hot key >>>combinations >>> from operating while a LC app is active? I'm thinking OSX here in >>> particular but I'd need a cross-platform (Mac + Windows) solution. >>> >>> On OSX, I can detect whether the command and shift keys are depressed >>>OK >>> but the system get the info first so the screen capture still happens. >>> >>> External? >>> >>> Terry... >>> >>> Dr Terry Judd >>> Senior Lecturer in Medical Education >>> Medical Education Unit >>> Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences >>> The University of Melbourne >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Tue Aug 20 02:42:03 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 06:42:03 +0000 Subject: Preventing screen capture hot key combinations In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: On 20/08/2013, at 4:28 PM, "Scott Rossi" wrote: > Ah, perhaps an external would be the way to go then. > > And BTW, nice word of the day: invigilated > Never heard this one before. Sounds a bit like a probe could be involved. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/19/13 11:13 PM, "Terry Judd" wrote: > >> Hi Scott - it's for running MCQ tests where the questions and responses >> need to be protected (medical progress testing). The tests will be run in >> an invigilated environment but we're looking to minimize the potential >> for copying as much as possible. There is a commercial solution that uses >> a customized 'locked down' browser that purports to prevent screen >> capture but it's pretty expensive. >> >> Hiding the app on suspend works well and I can easily empty the >> clipboard, but the hot key thing is a definite barrier. >> >> Terry... >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 20/08/2013, at 3:12 PM, "Scott Rossi" wrote: >> >>> Even if you could get this to work, I'm not sure what good it would do. >>> If LiveCode is active but is not the foreground application, screenshots >>> would still be possible. There are also probably a dozen third party >>> screen capture tools as well. You might be able to hide the application >>> (or somehow alter the display) if it's not the foreground app, but is >>> this >>> a desirable user experience? Plus, there's always the photo/video of >>> the >>> screen option. >>> >>> If you're trying to protect whatever you're displaying on the screen, >>> perhaps you could consider something like a watermark. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Scott Rossi >>> Creative Director >>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/19/13 8:37 PM, "Terry Judd" wrote: >>> >>>> Is it possible to prevent the system screen capture hot key >>>> combinations >>>> from operating while a LC app is active? I'm thinking OSX here in >>>> particular but I'd need a cross-platform (Mac + Windows) solution. >>>> >>>> On OSX, I can detect whether the command and shift keys are depressed >>>> OK >>>> but the system get the info first so the screen capture still happens. >>>> >>>> External? >>>> >>>> Terry... >>>> >>>> Dr Terry Judd >>>> Senior Lecturer in Medical Education >>>> Medical Education Unit >>>> Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences >>>> The University of Melbourne >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From endernafi at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 04:11:12 2013 From: endernafi at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ender_Nafi_Elek=C3=A7io=C4=9Flu?=) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:11:12 +0300 Subject: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding In-Reply-To: <521092AA.8040408@gmail.com> References: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> <1F818303C95F4930870C3B8BEE78DBD4@GATEWAY> <521092AA.8040408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00AB84F09B4C434C9776DDF1B3CEAC2B@gmail.com> Lynn Fredricks: "This is something that they should stay away from. ? An investment that cannot work on all supported platforms and not leverage the natural productivity of LiveCode isn't a good investment for Runtime." Well put, indeed. I'm quite convinced about this. Taking a platform-specific road is a danger. I'm still concerned about performance issues, though. Maybe it's me, being too fastidious :) Still, I wish to see a really cool game or an app with mind-blowing effects done via LiveCode. It would be a great showcase, don't you think? Scott's parallax-effect example was a nice one, for example. Best, ~ Ender Nafi ~? together, we're smarter ?~ From curry at pair.com Tue Aug 20 04:38:33 2013 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 03:38:33 -0500 Subject: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: <13344C8D-6333-4354-9120-EFFAB97539DF@gmail.com> References: <13344C8D-6333-4354-9120-EFFAB97539DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52132B09.6040708@pair.com> I see an "of of" in line -5. Also be sure of your cr's and your file paths! Best wishes, Curry K. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 06:31:11 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 13:31:11 +0300 Subject: community vs commercial for internal distribution of iOS apps In-Reply-To: <07DDA1D9-11BA-42B3-9AB4-2DA76AD44D51@unimelb.edu.au> References: <07DDA1D9-11BA-42B3-9AB4-2DA76AD44D51@unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <5213456F.8030803@gmail.com> On 08/20/2013 06:32 AM, Terry Judd wrote: > I've been looking at the FAQs, and in particular this question... > > Can you give me some examples of where I do and don't need a commercial license? > > ... and I'm still not exactly clear on where I stand. > > My situation is that I am distributing apps to students within my institution using an iOS Enterprise Developer license. The apps are hosted on one of our sites and are can be downloaded by anyone but they will only work for our students as they require users to logon securely through the uni's authentication system. I've been distributing these up to now using a commercial license but I'm wondering whether this is necessary. The pertinent question seems to be - do I need to distribute the source code to students to be within the terms of the community license? I have a feeling that you have to make the source code available NOT only to the students in your institution, but to anyone who downloads your apps; whether they have a logon account or not. This means that other institutions could pinch your app. If this fusses you, you have to buy the commercial version. Richmond. > Terry... > > Dr Terry Judd > Senior Lecturer in Medical Education > Medical Education Unit > Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences > The University of Melbourne > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 06:42:13 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 13:42:13 +0300 Subject: HTML entities not displaying on Chinese Windows In-Reply-To: <85456EE1-1F5A-499B-B562-A89A7484ADFC@me.com> References: <85456EE1-1F5A-499B-B562-A89A7484ADFC@me.com> Message-ID: <52134805.1000402@gmail.com> On 08/20/2013 01:51 AM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Hi all, > > The music history e-book we've been working on for the last couple of years has gotten to the point of having some people in China now translate large parts of it to Chinese. However when they open the compiled version on their Windows machines they see funny characters wherever we use an HTML entity in the HTMLtext of fields. Em dash, double quotation marks, accents, etc., all show this. > > In our classroom use of it, Chinese students at UCLA don't complain about this problem. I don't know much about system settings in Windows, but I see Chinese characters in the system settings for some of the UCLA students whom I have to do other kinds of tech support. > > What could be different about the Windows systems in Shanghai--at least two different people report the same issue? Well the first thing is to reflect on the fact that, rather like the 2 Koreas there are 2 Chinas: The People's Republic of China and the Republic of China (a.k.a. Taiwan), and they have no great love for one another. Now they have both developed their own ways of representing Chinese on computers . . . Mainland China uses the Guobiao encoding system (1,2 or 4 byte). Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau use Big5 (1 or 2 byte) There is also the Unicode method . . . and here's a groovy phrase I found trawling around on the Merry Internet: "The conversion between traditional and simplified Chinese is usually problematic" . . . Hey Nonny Nonny Nonny Nooooooooooo. Now I don't what version of Windows all these Chinese speaking people might be using, but Windows has a history of multiple encoding strategies that is like a minefield. Sorry to be such a damp squish. Richmond. P.S. You will probably be best going for Unicode encoding as this seems to work (on the whole) on any version of Windows from XP onwards. > These people are grad music students, not computer nerds, so I don't have much to go on. I had them install the Georgia and Helvetica fonts, which are all we use, and probably what they had to begin with. > > I also had to strip out all those characters in the version I finally sent them to translate so they could work. We want to sell the program there eventually--there's a large market there for Western music education, so this worries me. > > Any suggestions? > > Peter Bogdanoff > UCLA > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 07:24:46 2013 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (Jonathan Lynch) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 07:24:46 -0400 Subject: A peculiar character substitution problem with URL In-Reply-To: <96E20ABE-A548-4CDF-AE56-0C4FD1628BCB@lacscentre.co.uk> References: <96E20ABE-A548-4CDF-AE56-0C4FD1628BCB@lacscentre.co.uk> Message-ID: Well, Dave :) This worked perfectly. Thank you for taking the time to look into this - it really helped me. It also taught me that I need to learn more about uniencode and unidecode. Again - a huge thanks! Take care, Jonathan On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Dave Cragg wrote: > > On 19 Aug 2013, at 17:04, Jonathan Lynch wrote: > > > This is just the strangest thing. On some websites - but not all - trying > > to get the html of that website using "get url" or "put url" is causing > > some characters to be substituted. > > > > These are not obscure unicode characters. They seem to be characters in > the > > upper ANSI set. > > > > For example, on this web page: > > http://emergency.cdc.gov/disasters/wildfires/facts.asp > > > > If I use the following code: > > > > put URL "http://emergency.cdc.gov/disasters/wildfires/facts.asp" into > field > > 1 > > > > The right single quote character --> ? <-- ( which is character number > 146) > > gets converted into ??? > > > > > > I do not understand why ? becomes ??? > > > > Jonathan, > > The page source for the url indicates the page is encoded as UTF-8. This > is from the 'head' section of the page. > > > > So it looks like it may be 'obscure unicode characters'. :-) > > What happens when you do something like this: > > put URL "http://emergency.cdc.gov/disasters/wildfires/facts.asp" into > tTemp > put uniDecode(uniEncode(tTemp, "UTF8")) into field 1 > > Cheers > Dave Cragg > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Do all things with love From coiin at verizon.net Tue Aug 20 08:18:33 2013 From: coiin at verizon.net (Colin Holgate) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 08:18:33 -0400 Subject: Preventing screen capture hot key combinations In-Reply-To: References: <17FABB71-71AC-4DE9-8DE3-528B05E5DF67@unimelb.edu.au>, Message-ID: <85536DBA-783F-4CC4-80EF-751881F42D86@verizon.net> I?m not sure how much effort it?s worth going to. A potential cheat might somehow do a screenshot, find the screenshot, get on to email, email the picture to themselves, and some of those steps you could prevent. But a far easier way to cheat would be to take a picture of the screen with your camera. You won?t easily defeat that. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 08:24:26 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:24:26 +0300 Subject: Preventing screen capture hot key combinations In-Reply-To: <85536DBA-783F-4CC4-80EF-751881F42D86@verizon.net> References: <17FABB71-71AC-4DE9-8DE3-528B05E5DF67@unimelb.edu.au>, <85536DBA-783F-4CC4-80EF-751881F42D86@verizon.net> Message-ID: <52135FFA.4060000@gmail.com> On 08/20/2013 03:18 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: > I?m not sure how much effort it?s worth going to. A potential cheat might somehow do a screenshot, find the screenshot, get on to email, email the picture to themselves, and some of those steps you could prevent. > > But a far easier way to cheat would be to take a picture of the screen with your camera. You won?t easily defeat that. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode The unfortunate fact is that if people really want to cheat they will find a way to do it. However photographing a monitor is never very good, what with flash reflection and so forth. I don't know whether having some regular screen blanking routine at something like 10 times a second; too rapid for the human eye to detect, might not muck up photographs. The only problem about that is you might end up in court being sued by someone who claims that the flashes induced them to have epileptic fits. Richmond. From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Tue Aug 20 08:49:58 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:49:58 +0000 Subject: Preventing screen capture hot key combinations In-Reply-To: <85536DBA-783F-4CC4-80EF-751881F42D86@verizon.net> References: <17FABB71-71AC-4DE9-8DE3-528B05E5DF67@unimelb.edu.au>, , <85536DBA-783F-4CC4-80EF-751881F42D86@verizon.net> Message-ID: On 20/08/2013, at 10:19 PM, "Colin Holgate" wrote: > I?m not sure how much effort it?s worth going to. A potential cheat might somehow do a screenshot, find the screenshot, get on to email, email the picture to themselves, and some of those steps you could prevent. The computers are in a managed lab so hopefully most could be prevented. being able to disable modifier keys would certainly help. > > But a far easier way to cheat would be to take a picture of the screen with your camera. You won?t easily defeat that. In theory this shouldn't be a problem as there are no phones allowed during the test. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Tue Aug 20 08:56:08 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:56:08 +0000 Subject: community vs commercial for internal distribution of iOS apps In-Reply-To: <5213456F.8030803@gmail.com> References: <07DDA1D9-11BA-42B3-9AB4-2DA76AD44D51@unimelb.edu.au>, <5213456F.8030803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1D74D41C-1E89-47DD-AA31-5C1A30BD315D@unimelb.edu.au> On 20/08/2013, at 8:31 PM, "Richmond" wrote: > On 08/20/2013 06:32 AM, Terry Judd wrote: >> I've been looking at the FAQs, and in particular this question... >> >> Can you give me some examples of where I do and don't need a commercial license? >> >> ... and I'm still not exactly clear on where I stand. >> >> My situation is that I am distributing apps to students within my institution using an iOS Enterprise Developer license. The apps are hosted on one of our sites and are can be downloaded by anyone but they will only work for our students as they require users to logon securely through the uni's authentication system. I've been distributing these up to now using a commercial license but I'm wondering whether this is necessary. The pertinent question seems to be - do I need to distribute the source code to students to be within the terms of the community license? > > I have a feeling that you have to make the source code available NOT only to the students in your institution, but to anyone who downloads your apps; whether they have a logon account or not. > I suspect you're right. > This means that other institutions could pinch your app. > > If this fusses you, you have to buy the commercial version. I'm about to renew anyway but was curious about what my obligations were. Cheers, Terry... > > Richmond. > >> Terry... >> >> Dr Terry Judd >> Senior Lecturer in Medical Education >> Medical Education Unit >> Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences >> The University of Melbourne >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pmbrig at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 09:18:13 2013 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:18:13 -0400 Subject: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: <52132B09.6040708@pair.com> References: <13344C8D-6333-4354-9120-EFFAB97539DF@gmail.com> <52132B09.6040708@pair.com> Message-ID: D'oh! Should work now. The only remaining puzzle is why it worked on the Mac but not in the Windows standalone. Maybe the Mac understands stuttering better?. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Aug 20, 2013, at 4:38 AM, Curry Kenworthy wrote: > > I see an "of of" in line -5. Also be sure of your cr's and your file paths! > > Best wishes, > > Curry K. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From feed at smpcsupport.com Tue Aug 20 09:45:00 2013 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 06:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: LC server experience return anyone ? In-Reply-To: <1a43f64cdcec8a64c8a1aa83e6361511.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> References: <1a43f64cdcec8a64c8a1aa83e6361511.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <1377006300845-4668911.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi jbv, I used to host a LiveCode Server (with MySQL) based site on Thor in 2012. Two reasons caused me to switch to an Unmanaged VPS. * The increasing performance problems in the later half of 2012. * All my clients are here in Australia, and the round trip to servers in the USA meant too much lag (even when Thor was having a good day and working well). With the "VPSBible" (search for it on Google) I managed to setup an Unmanaged VPS with LAMP and LiveCode Server. Nothing fancy: 10 GBs Disk Space, 50 GBs Monthly Transfer, 512 MBs RAM Guaranteed, 32 bit CentOS. Knowing little about Apache meant I carefully followed the instructions in the LiveCodeNotes-5_0_2-Server.pdf Deployment Notes and it worked after some experimentation. I did have had to make sure the permissions of the livecode-server.so file were set to allow it to execute. Thinking about it now it seems relatively easy, but at the time it was quite confusing as I had never done it before. Performance wise I have nothing to compare with, but I know that that my web app which is going through MySQL for every page refresh has an average delay (on the server) of between 50 and 100 ms which is good enough. (Of course, this changes when the number of simultaneous users increases.) Unless I get many more simultaneous users, I plan to stay with a VPS because it costs less than a dedicated server and there is always the option of getting a higher speced VPS since I am currently on a basic level. On an intangible note, the feeling of control when having your own VPS, in contrast to shared hosting is worth every dollar. (Assuming the VPS is from a company that does not try to squeeze too many users onto each piece of hardware.) After having tried it I don't think I would ever go back to shared hosted environment for any "mission critical" web site or apps. Good luck with it. ----- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC-server-experience-return-anyone-tp4668862p4668911.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Tue Aug 20 10:28:59 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:28:59 +0100 (BST) Subject: community vs commercial for internal distribution of iOS apps In-Reply-To: <1D74D41C-1E89-47DD-AA31-5C1A30BD315D@unimelb.edu.au> References: <07DDA1D9-11BA-42B3-9AB4-2DA76AD44D51@unimelb.edu.au>, <5213456F.8030803@gmail.com> <1D74D41C-1E89-47DD-AA31-5C1A30BD315D@unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <1377008939.29883.YahooMailNeo@web28805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> It's distribution not use that counts in the GPL. If you put the download behind a login then you could possibly argue that the distribution was entirely internal, however, students are not generally under the control of an organisation in the same way that employees are - a student could legitimately argue that you gave them the binary, therefore you have to give them the source code too. For a company with an internal distribution, employees or sub-contractors are unlikely to raise the same objection. Even if you did make source code available internally, you can contractually prevent employees and sub-contractors from distributing it further, whatever the license says. With students I don't think that's the case. Note that the GPL never forces you to publish your source code publicly when distribution is limited, just that everyone who gets the binary also gets the source and is free to pass it on to others. ________________________________ From: Terry Judd To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Tuesday, 20 August 2013, 13:56 Subject: Re: community vs commercial for internal distribution of iOS apps On 20/08/2013, at 8:31 PM, "Richmond" wrote: > On 08/20/2013 06:32 AM, Terry Judd wrote: >> I've been looking at the FAQs, and in particular this question... >> >> Can you give me some examples of where I do and don't need a commercial license? >> >> ... and I'm still not exactly clear on where I stand. >> >> My situation is that I am distributing apps to students within my institution using an iOS Enterprise Developer license. The apps are hosted on one of our sites and are can be downloaded by anyone but they will only work for our students as they require users to logon securely through the uni's authentication system. I've been distributing these up to now using a commercial license but I'm wondering whether this is necessary. The pertinent question seems to be - do I need to distribute the source code to students to be within the terms of the community license? > > I have a feeling that you have to make the source code available NOT only to the students in your institution, but to anyone who downloads your apps; whether they have a logon account or not. > I suspect you're right. > This means that other institutions could pinch your app. > > If this fusses you, you have to buy the commercial version. I'm about to renew anyway but was curious about what my obligations were. Cheers, Terry... > > Richmond. > >> Terry... >> >> Dr Terry Judd >> Senior Lecturer in Medical Education >> Medical Education Unit >> Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences >> The University of Melbourne >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Tue Aug 20 10:42:57 2013 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ludovic_Th=E9bault?=) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:42:57 +0200 Subject: community vs commercial for internal distribution of iOS apps In-Reply-To: <1377008939.29883.YahooMailNeo@web28805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <07DDA1D9-11BA-42B3-9AB4-2DA76AD44D51@unimelb.edu.au>, <5213456F.8030803@gmail.com> <1D74D41C-1E89-47DD-AA31-5C1A30BD315D@unimelb.edu.au> <1377008939.29883.YahooMailNeo@web28805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <85B61A04-1FDD-4281-B84B-1396771FC35B@laposte.net> Le 20 ao?t 2013 ? 16:28, Mark Wilcox a ?crit : > It's distribution not use that counts in the GPL. If you put the download behind a login then you could possibly argue that the distribution was entirely internal, however, students are not generally under the control of an organisation in the same way that employees are - a student could legitimately argue that you gave them the binary, therefore you have to give them the source code too. For a company with an internal distribution, employees or sub-contractors are unlikely to raise the same objection. Even if you did make source code available internally, you can contractually prevent employees and sub-contractors from distributing it further, whatever the license says. With students I don't think that's the case. > > Note that the GPL never forces you to publish your source code publicly when distribution is limited, just that everyone who gets the binary also gets the source and is free to pass it on to others. Just for clarify : if i look in the binary of a standalone created by the community edition, i can see all the scripts aka the source code, no ? From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Tue Aug 20 11:13:48 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:13:48 +0100 (BST) Subject: community vs commercial for internal distribution of iOS apps In-Reply-To: <85B61A04-1FDD-4281-B84B-1396771FC35B@laposte.net> References: <07DDA1D9-11BA-42B3-9AB4-2DA76AD44D51@unimelb.edu.au>, <5213456F.8030803@gmail.com> <1D74D41C-1E89-47DD-AA31-5C1A30BD315D@unimelb.edu.au> <1377008939.29883.YahooMailNeo@web28805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <85B61A04-1FDD-4281-B84B-1396771FC35B@laposte.net> Message-ID: <1377011628.5970.YahooMailNeo@web28801.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> >> Just for clarify : if i look in the binary of a standalone created by the community edition, i can see all the scripts aka the source code, no ? Yes, there's no encryption or password protection on community edition stacks but the GPL does not accept being able to extract the code in some way from the binary as sufficient (you can reverse engineer/dis-assemble almost any binary you like). You have to give them the code in such a form that they can easily re-build a modified binary for themselves. From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Tue Aug 20 11:23:54 2013 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ludovic_Th=E9bault?=) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:23:54 +0200 Subject: community vs commercial for internal distribution of iOS apps In-Reply-To: <1377011628.5970.YahooMailNeo@web28801.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <07DDA1D9-11BA-42B3-9AB4-2DA76AD44D51@unimelb.edu.au>, <5213456F.8030803@gmail.com> <1D74D41C-1E89-47DD-AA31-5C1A30BD315D@unimelb.edu.au> <1377008939.29883.YahooMailNeo@web28805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <85B61A04-1FDD-4281-B84B-1396771FC35B@laposte.net> <1377011628.5970.YahooMailNeo@web28801.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <06589A7E-5119-46EC-B80C-EDCDD4535667@laposte.net> Le 20 ao?t 2013 ? 17:13, Mark Wilcox a ?crit : >>> Just for clarify : if i look in the binary of a standalone created by the community edition, i can see all the scripts aka the source code, no ? > > > Yes, there's no encryption or password protection on community edition stacks but the GPL does not accept being able to extract the code in some way from the binary as sufficient (you can reverse engineer/dis-assemble almost any binary you like). You have to give them the code in such a form that they can easily re-build a modified binary for themselves. So, it's not needed to give the livecode stack, but just the livecode script ? Thanks ! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 20 11:41:59 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 08:41:59 -0700 Subject: community vs commercial for internal distribution of iOS apps In-Reply-To: <06589A7E-5119-46EC-B80C-EDCDD4535667@laposte.net> References: <06589A7E-5119-46EC-B80C-EDCDD4535667@laposte.net> Message-ID: <52138E47.8030205@fourthworld.com> Ludovic Th?bault wrote: > Le 20 ao?t 2013 ? 17:13, Mark Wilcox a ?crit : > >>>> Just for clarify : if i look in the binary of a standalone created >>>> by the community edition, i can see all the scripts aka the source >>>> code, no ? >> >> Yes, there's no encryption or password protection on community >> edition stacks but the GPL does not accept being able to extract >> the code in some way from the binary as sufficient (you can reverse >> engineer/dis-assemble almost any binary you like). You have to give >> them the code in such a form that they can easily re-build a >> modified binary for themselves. I haven't played with the Community Edition in some months, but I had the impression that standalones have been compiling to a tokenized form in which the scripts aren't directly readable, no? > So, it's not needed to give the livecode stack, but just the livecode > script ? In LiveCode, source is a combination of code and binary objects. I suspect GPL compliance would require the complete source stack file, since the scripts alone wouldn't likely be sufficient to fulfill the Four Freedoms, which include the freedoms to modify the work and redistribute it for any purpose. And FWIW, as I understand it the issue with GPL vs Apple's app store is that their app store limits the number of downloads per account, while the GPL guarantees unlimited distribution, making the two logically incompatible. For myself, I follow the advice given to me by one of my FOSS advocate friends: keep a license proprietary until you've exhausted all reasons not to use GPL, because once that genie's out of the bottle there's no putting it back. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 20 11:52:06 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 08:52:06 -0700 Subject: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: <52132B09.6040708@pair.com> References: <52132B09.6040708@pair.com> Message-ID: <521390A6.7040903@fourthworld.com> Curry Kenworthy wrote: > I see an "of of" in line -5. Also be sure of your cr's and your file paths! Good catch! I'd looked at Peter's code and completely missed that. This is why I love this community: When you need to optimize a routine into a three-line solution using arrays, Alex Tweedly will be the guy to deliver it. When you need new ways of thinking about complex data structures, Dick Kriesel is your man. When you need geometry, we all turn to Jim Hurley. And when you need a pair of eyes able to see the finest of details, Curry's got your back. Collectively, there's nothing we can't solve. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 20 12:06:58 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:06:58 -0700 Subject: LC server experience return anyone ? In-Reply-To: <1377006300845-4668911.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1377006300845-4668911.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <52139422.3070902@fourthworld.com> RunRevPlanet wrote: > Knowing little about Apache meant I carefully followed the instructions in > the LiveCodeNotes-5_0_2-Server.pdf Deployment Notes and it worked after some > experimentation. I did have had to make sure the permissions of the > livecode-server.so file were set to allow it to execute. Thinking about it > now it seems relatively easy, but at the time it was quite confusing as I > had never done it before. .. > On an intangible note, the feeling of control when having your own VPS, in > contrast to shared hosting is worth every dollar. (Assuming the VPS is from > a company that does not try to squeeze too many users onto each piece of > hardware.) After having tried it I don't think I would ever go back to > shared hosted environment for any "mission critical" web site or apps. For me, that's turned out to be the biggest unplanned benefit of managing your own server: learning. It's hard to beat the low cost of shared hosts, but nothing can beat the sense of empowerment you get once you step outside of that and learn even just a little about how Apache works. It doesn't take much, and like learning most things you can chew on small bits over time, you don't need to learn everything at once. But like learning LiveCode itself, the more you learn about servers the more you can do, and the more confident you feel doing it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Aug 20 12:15:01 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:15:01 +0000 Subject: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: <521390A6.7040903@fourthworld.com> References: <52132B09.6040708@pair.com> <521390A6.7040903@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Aug 20, 2013, at 9:52 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Curry Kenworthy wrote: > >> I see an "of of" in line -5. Also be sure of your cr's and your file paths! > > Good catch! I'd looked at Peter's code and completely missed that. > > This is why I love this community: > > When you need to optimize a routine into a three-line solution using arrays, Alex Tweedly will be the guy to deliver it. > > When you need new ways of thinking about complex data structures, Dick Kriesel is your man. > > When you need geometry, we all turn to Jim Hurley. > > And when you need a pair of eyes able to see the finest of details, Curry's got your back. > And if we want rigorous benchmarking of scripting techniques, Richard's our guy. Credit where credit's due. Devin Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University http://university.livecode.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 20 12:40:49 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:40:49 -0700 Subject: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding In-Reply-To: <00AB84F09B4C434C9776DDF1B3CEAC2B@gmail.com> References: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> <1F818303C95F4930870C3B8BEE78DBD4@GATEWAY> <521092AA.8040408@gmail.com> <00AB84F09B4C434C9776DDF1B3CEAC2B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <163400116677.20130820094049@ahsoftware.net> Ender- Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 1:11:12 AM, you wrote: > Still, I wish to see a really cool game or an app with > mind-blowing effects done via LiveCode. > It would be a great showcase, don't you think? You *are* aware that a new physics engine is one of the Kickstarter stretch goals, right? It's on the way. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 20 12:48:12 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:48:12 -0700 Subject: Preventing screen capture hot key combinations In-Reply-To: References: <17FABB71-71AC-4DE9-8DE3-528B05E5DF67@unimelb.edu.au>, , <85536DBA-783F-4CC4-80EF-751881F42D86@verizon.net> Message-ID: <168400560327.20130820094812@ahsoftware.net> Terry- Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 5:49:58 AM, you wrote: > The computers are in a managed lab so hopefully most could be > prevented. being able to disable modifier keys would certainly help. If this is in a managed lab, what good would screenshots do? Wouldn't they be confined to the individual computer / lab? Fifteen or so years ago I produced a hacked-up version of a standard web browser for our library system so they could roll out a public internet and prevent Bad Things from happening, but that's less of an option now. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Aug 20 13:22:10 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:22:10 +0000 Subject: HTTP proxies Message-ID: <43367F02-2C38-4B8F-AEAD-70A912A20AD0@byu.edu> Hi all, I am a neophyte when it comes to proxy servers. My application phones home on occasion via HTTP requests (mostly GET but some PUT) to get content update updates and such. One user has reported that this fails because the application isn't set up to use his university's proxy server. I found the HTTPProxy property in the dictionary. Is it sufficient to give users a way in my application to enter their HTTP proxy server address? This is also a point of confusion to me. I thought that the HTTP proxy was an OS setting that users set up when setting their network settings. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Many thanks. Devin Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University http://university.livecode.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 20 13:43:26 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 13:43:26 -0400 Subject: HTTP proxies In-Reply-To: <43367F02-2C38-4B8F-AEAD-70A912A20AD0@byu.edu> References: <43367F02-2C38-4B8F-AEAD-70A912A20AD0@byu.edu> Message-ID: I don't know if I would put myself into a position that *depends* on RunRevs implementation of proxy authentication. Even RunRev themselves can't even get it working for their licensing system, so we have off-line activation. It has been this way since Revolution 1.1, (as long as I have been using the product). I do wish it were better. Have you tried passing proxy authentication in the URL like http://username:password at someserver.com/mypage.html? You could save an encrypted preference to populate it behind the scenes, or just store the username, and always prompt for the proxy password. ~Roger On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > Hi all, > > I am a neophyte when it comes to proxy servers. My application phones home > on occasion via HTTP requests (mostly GET but some PUT) to get content > update updates and such. One user has reported that this fails because the > application isn't set up to use his university's proxy server. > > I found the HTTPProxy property in the dictionary. Is it sufficient to give > users a way in my application to enter their HTTP proxy server address? > This is also a point of confusion to me. I thought that the HTTP proxy was > an OS setting that users set up when setting their network settings. Can > anyone point me in the right direction? > > Many thanks. > > Devin > > > Devin Asay > Learn to code with LiveCode University > http://university.livecode.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pmbrig at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 13:48:19 2013 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 13:48:19 -0400 Subject: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: References: <52132B09.6040708@pair.com> <521390A6.7040903@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <50072D9A-F798-4C09-AA48-20698A6EF459@gmail.com> Amen. I don't put this into words often enough, but I love this list. I learn from it constantly and the camaraderie and collaboration is wonderful. Sometimes it's discovering a new way to approach an old problem, sometimes it's unearthing a little corner of LC that I had not discovered, sometimes it's just a fresh pair of eyes to catch a silly mistake. Thank you all for your various and wonderful contributions! -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Aug 20, 2013, at 12:15 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > > On Aug 20, 2013, at 9:52 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Curry Kenworthy wrote: >> >>> I see an "of of" in line -5. Also be sure of your cr's and your file paths! >> >> Good catch! I'd looked at Peter's code and completely missed that. >> >> This is why I love this community: >> >> When you need to optimize a routine into a three-line solution using arrays, Alex Tweedly will be the guy to deliver it. >> >> When you need new ways of thinking about complex data structures, Dick Kriesel is your man. >> >> When you need geometry, we all turn to Jim Hurley. >> >> And when you need a pair of eyes able to see the finest of details, Curry's got your back. >> > And if we want rigorous benchmarking of scripting techniques, Richard's our guy. > > Credit where credit's due. > > Devin > > Devin Asay > Learn to code with LiveCode University > http://university.livecode.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lists at mangomultimedia.com Tue Aug 20 14:26:00 2013 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:26:00 -0400 Subject: HTTP proxies In-Reply-To: <43367F02-2C38-4B8F-AEAD-70A912A20AD0@byu.edu> References: <43367F02-2C38-4B8F-AEAD-70A912A20AD0@byu.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > I am a neophyte when it comes to proxy servers. My application phones home > on occasion via HTTP requests (mostly GET but some PUT) to get content > update updates and such. One user has reported that this fails because the > application isn't set up to use his university's proxy server. > > I found the HTTPProxy property in the dictionary. Is it sufficient to give > users a way in my application to enter their HTTP proxy server address? > This is also a point of confusion to me. I thought that the HTTP proxy was > an OS setting that users set up when setting their network settings. Can > anyone point me in the right direction? > Ah, proxy servers. When it comes to proxy servers, what will work is highly dependent on how the proxy server is set up. Here are a couple of scenarios to consider. I have come across all of them while working with customers. 1) The user has a predefined proxy IP address stored in the OS. No authentication required. 2) The user has a predefined proxy IP address with a username/password that they need to enter. The proxy server might use Basic or Digest authentication. 3a) The proxy server is determined by a PAC file that lives on their internal network. This PAC file is javascript that determines which proxy server should be used based on the URL that is being requested. 3b) You might have to find a PAC file on the network using the WPAD detection protocol. 4) NTLM authentication may be required in which case you need an external to handle the various handshakes between proxy server and your app. In addition, if you are requesting urls using https then you need support for the CONNECT protocol. libURL does not support this but curl does (if you have a binary that was compiled correctly). So basically proxy servers are a major pain to deal with. If the user is behind a static proxy server IP address then you could create a dialog allowing them to enter that address. If the proxy needs a username/password then you also have to determine the auth type (e.g. Basic, Digest, ?). For PAC files it becomes more complicated as does NTLM. The GLX App Framework has a version of libURL that can support everything except for https connections through proxy servers (NTLM is handled by an external That Chipp and Chris provided). I've had to resort to a custom version of libURL built around curl for CONNECT support, but that isn't publicly available. If you download the latest GLX Application Framework code then you can get to the internet library and the routines for processing PAC/finding PAC (in the glxappFramework stack file). Here are some docs I have for it: http://www.bluemangolearning.com/revolution/docs/glxapp_framework/api_docs/Documents/stack_glxapplicationFramework_package_10810598858276329711010032801141111201213283117112112111114116.htm http://revolution.screenstepslive.com/s/revolution/m/glxapp/c/1950 -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems www.clarify-it.com - www.screensteps.com From pete at lcsql.com Tue Aug 20 14:36:57 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:36:57 -0700 Subject: Stack Menu Message-ID: I'm using the feature to name a stack to display when a menu is clicked instead of showing the values in the menu button's text. All works great except that when the stack is displayed, the button with the lowest layer is hilited. I'd prefer that no buttons are hilited at that point but haven't been able to find a way to make that happen - the only thing I've tried so far is to issue a focus on nothing command in preOpenCard of the stack but that didn't make any difference. Any ideas? Pete lcSQL Software From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Aug 20 14:46:58 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:46:58 +0000 Subject: HTTP proxies In-Reply-To: References: <43367F02-2C38-4B8F-AEAD-70A912A20AD0@byu.edu> Message-ID: <6EFEFC09-6FCD-4EA8-B55C-62805D11FA6B@byu.edu> Thanks, Roger and Trevor. It sounds like it can be a minefield. This gives me a starting point anyway. Devin On Aug 20, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > >> I am a neophyte when it comes to proxy servers. My application phones home >> on occasion via HTTP requests (mostly GET but some PUT) to get content >> update updates and such. One user has reported that this fails because the >> application isn't set up to use his university's proxy server. >> >> I found the HTTPProxy property in the dictionary. Is it sufficient to give >> users a way in my application to enter their HTTP proxy server address? >> This is also a point of confusion to me. I thought that the HTTP proxy was >> an OS setting that users set up when setting their network settings. Can >> anyone point me in the right direction? >> > > Ah, proxy servers. When it comes to proxy servers, what will work is highly > dependent on how the proxy server is set up. Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University http://university.livecode.com From gcanyon at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 14:46:22 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 13:46:22 -0500 Subject: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding In-Reply-To: <521092AA.8040408@gmail.com> References: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> <1F818303C95F4930870C3B8BEE78DBD4@GATEWAY> <521092AA.8040408@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 4:23 AM, Richmond wrote: > To illustrate this consider a possible future scenario: > > 2030: > > Desktop computers are largely a thing of the past. > > A large array of handheld devices run on successor systems to Android, > Linux and Mobile versions of > Mac and Windows, as well as 4-5 completely new operating systems. AND, > before I forget, systems presenting a 'screen' in a lens of one's glasses > and a keyboard fixed onto one's sporran (maybe that is why Richmond still > wears a kilt; in expectation of the day . . .). > > Many of these devices have no local storage facilities at all beyond their > operating systems, possibly stored > on ROM chips or somesuch, everything (including apps) being stored in a > cloud or on a dedicated server. > > Without wishing to pass myself off as some sort of seer (I am NOT the 7th > son of a 7th son), I think > that there is a chance I may be at least 50% right there. > > AND . . . in 2030: > > What we think of as 'Windows' and what we think of as 'Mac', and the > conglomeration of related systems we > think of as 'Linux' will either be extinct or have transmogrified to such > states that they bear little or no resemblance to what they are now. > > Now, I don't know the exact age of Kevin Miller, but I plan to be a > sprightly 77 year-old who is still up to > his "light-programming" and his "heavy stirring" on the Use-List and or > Forums. What DO KNOW is that Kevin is quite considerably younger than me, > and does not indicate any great urge to retire . . . . > > SO; RunRev should not go chasing platform specific innovations lest they > be Boojums [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Snark_%28Lewis_Carroll%29]. > Ooh, ooh, I want to play! 2030 is 17 years away, which is a *long* time. 17 years ago was 1996: Win 95 was storming the marketplace, Apple was nearly dead, and the internet was barely started. 17 years before that, in 1979, most people had no clue what a computer even was. So I'll be short-sighted and say by 2018: Windows, Mac OS, and Linux are largely dead as consumer OSes. Microsoft is in serious decline as a consumer OS vendor because they will never give up the idea that Windows with a coat of paint is perfect for all devices/use cases. Consumers use phones/tablets for most of what they do. iOS and Android are 95% of that market, and 80% or more of the consumer market as a whole. iOS is a minority, but a larger minority in tablets and monetizable users. Android is the numbers victor in phones and lower-value users, and likely tablets as well. Android is beyond Google's control. Samsung and/or Amazon are the obvious replacements, but further fragmentation, followed by eventual consolidation on who knows what standard, is possible. Everything will have local storage, even wifi devices. Local storage will be absurdly cheap, and it's too useful. It may be obscured from the user -- the Apple TV has 8gb of internal storage for caching. Alternative interfaces -- voice, eyeglass display, watch display, input based on motion/position (myo is a candidate) -- will be marginal *unless* someone with marketshare comes up with something good and pushes it. Apple is an obvious candidate, then Samsung or Amazon, with Google *slightly* ahead of Microsoft at the far back of the list. As an aside, Google *is* positioned to revolutionize driving, perhaps by 2018. Especially commercial driving(paywall, sorry), which is a >$100 billion opportunity. gc From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Aug 20 14:50:04 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:50:04 +0000 Subject: Stack Menu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65AF3778-F21C-454A-B4E7-F0E58B9D7EDC@byu.edu> On Aug 20, 2013, at 12:36 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I'm using the feature to name a stack to display when a menu is clicked > instead of showing the values in the menu button's text. > > All works great except that when the stack is displayed, the button with > the lowest layer is hilited. I'd prefer that no buttons are hilited at > that point but haven't been able to find a way to make that happen - the > only thing I've tried so far is to issue a focus on nothing command in > preOpenCard of the stack but that didn't make any difference. > > Any ideas? Pete, did you try it in openCard? I'm wondering if it doesn't work in preOpenCard because the screen hasn't been drawn yet, so there is nothing to focus or unfocus. Devin Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University http://university.livecode.com From bogdanoff at me.com Tue Aug 20 15:08:51 2013 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:08:51 -0700 Subject: HTML entities not displaying on Chinese Windows In-Reply-To: <52134805.1000402@gmail.com> References: <85456EE1-1F5A-499B-B562-A89A7484ADFC@me.com> <52134805.1000402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9927760C-DC93-4C10-B08F-08498334E574@me.com> Thanks, Richmond, this makes some sense. How then, would I encode fields as unicode so they display reliably? Peter On Aug 20, 2013, at 3:42 AM, Richmond wrote: > On 08/20/2013 01:51 AM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> The music history e-book we've been working on for the last couple of years has gotten to the point of having some people in China now translate large parts of it to Chinese. However when they open the compiled version on their Windows machines they see funny characters wherever we use an HTML entity in the HTMLtext of fields. Em dash, double quotation marks, accents, etc., all show this. >> >> In our classroom use of it, Chinese students at UCLA don't complain about this problem. I don't know much about system settings in Windows, but I see Chinese characters in the system settings for some of the UCLA students whom I have to do other kinds of tech support. >> >> What could be different about the Windows systems in Shanghai--at least two different people report the same issue? > > Well the first thing is to reflect on the fact that, rather like the 2 Koreas there are 2 Chinas: The People's Republic of China and the Republic of China (a.k.a. Taiwan), and they have no great love for one another. Now they have both developed their own ways of representing Chinese on computers . . . > > Mainland China uses the Guobiao encoding system (1,2 or 4 byte). > > Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau use Big5 (1 or 2 byte) > > There is also the Unicode method . . . > and here's a groovy phrase I found trawling around on the Merry Internet: "The conversion between traditional and simplified Chinese is usually problematic" . . . Hey Nonny Nonny Nonny Nooooooooooo. > > Now I don't what version of Windows all these Chinese speaking people might be using, but Windows has > a history of multiple encoding strategies that is like a minefield. > > Sorry to be such a damp squish. > > Richmond. > > P.S. You will probably be best going for Unicode encoding as this seems to work (on the whole) on any version > of Windows from XP onwards. > >> These people are grad music students, not computer nerds, so I don't have much to go on. I had them install the Georgia and Helvetica fonts, which are all we use, and probably what they had to begin with. >> >> I also had to strip out all those characters in the version I finally sent them to translate so they could work. We want to sell the program there eventually--there's a large market there for Western music education, so this worries me. >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> Peter Bogdanoff >> UCLA >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Tue Aug 20 15:26:03 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:26:03 -0700 Subject: Stack Menu In-Reply-To: <65AF3778-F21C-454A-B4E7-F0E58B9D7EDC@byu.edu> References: <65AF3778-F21C-454A-B4E7-F0E58B9D7EDC@byu.edu> Message-ID: Just tried that and no luck unfortunately. I can live with it the way it is but it means I will have to relayer a bunch of controls which will be in a pain since they're in groups. Pete lcSQL Software On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > > On Aug 20, 2013, at 12:36 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > I'm using the feature to name a stack to display when a menu is clicked > > instead of showing the values in the menu button's text. > > > > All works great except that when the stack is displayed, the button with > > the lowest layer is hilited. I'd prefer that no buttons are hilited at > > that point but haven't been able to find a way to make that happen - the > > only thing I've tried so far is to issue a focus on nothing command in > > preOpenCard of the stack but that didn't make any difference. > > > > Any ideas? > > Pete, did you try it in openCard? I'm wondering if it doesn't work in > preOpenCard because the screen hasn't been drawn yet, so there is nothing > to focus or unfocus. > > Devin > > > Devin Asay > Learn to code with LiveCode University > http://university.livecode.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Tue Aug 20 16:17:24 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 13:17:24 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText Message-ID: I recently discovered that, contrary to the dictionary entry, htmlText supports any of the standard html entities like ¶, %crarr;, etc With that in mind, does anyone know if the list of supported html tags in the dictionary is complete? It lists the following:

recognizes face= size= lang= color= bgcolor=

...
Pete lcSQL Software From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Aug 20 16:25:44 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:25:44 +0000 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> On Aug 20, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I recently discovered that, contrary to the dictionary entry, htmlText > supports any of the standard html entities like ¶, %crarr;, etc > > With that in mind, does anyone know if the list of supported html tags in > the dictionary is complete? It lists the following: > >

> > > > > > > > > > > recognizes face= size= lang= color= bgcolor= > > Well, at a minimum, ordered and unordered list tags and some list attributes are now supported. Devin Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University http://university.livecode.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 20 16:30:10 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:30:10 -0500 Subject: Stack Menu In-Reply-To: References: <65AF3778-F21C-454A-B4E7-F0E58B9D7EDC@byu.edu> Message-ID: <5213D1D2.6020508@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/20/13 2:26 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Just tried that and no luck unfortunately. > > I can live with it the way it is but it means I will have to relayer a > bunch of controls which will be in a pain since they're in groups. There's an ancient trick where you create a tiny editable object, make it layer 1, and hide it under another control or off screen. When the stack opens, that object gets the focus and no one sees it. Did you try turning off traversalOn on your buttons? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 20 16:32:34 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:32:34 -0500 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5213D262.8050601@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/20/13 3:17 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I recently discovered that, contrary to the dictionary entry, htmlText > supports any of the standard html entities like ¶, %crarr;, etc > > With that in mind, does anyone know if the list of supported html tags in > the dictionary is complete? It lists the following: > >

> > > > > > > > > > > recognizes face= size= lang= color= bgcolor= > > >

...
It appears to support everything. I've been working with decimal entities and those work too, even very high numbers. All the html tags that BBEdit creates also work. The docs should probably remove the list entirely. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Aug 20 16:46:55 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:46:55 +0000 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> References: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> Message-ID: <1C13DF70-CAB7-43B0-A831-53254C664F7C@byu.edu> On Aug 20, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > > On Aug 20, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> I recently discovered that, contrary to the dictionary entry, htmlText >> supports any of the standard html entities like ¶, %crarr;, etc >> >> With that in mind, does anyone know if the list of supported html tags in >> the dictionary is complete? It lists the following: >> >>

>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> recognizes face= size= lang= color= bgcolor= >> >> > > Well, at a minimum, ordered and unordered list tags and some list attributes are now supported. In addition several tags are interpreted, if not directly supported:
-->


-->

--> --> -->

The

 tag is supported insofar as internal line breaks are observed when htmltext is rendered.

There may be others. I've done a lot of experimenting with html formatted text, which I use to set the htmltext of a field, and then I observe what "works". Then you can reverse the process and 'put the htmlText' of the field and see how it is stored in the field.

HTH

Devin

Devin Asay
Learn to code with LiveCode University
http://university.livecode.com






From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com  Tue Aug 20 17:19:08 2013
From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:19:08 -0400
Subject: revFontUnload Fail
Message-ID: 

I'm trying to include a font with a desktop application.  I don't want to
install the font because the users may not have admin rights.  This in on
WinXP and Win7.  revFontLoad does the trick perfectly, but in my
closeStackRequest handler is where I try to unload the font, and the result
is "couldn't unload font".

As a standalone, I included some answer dialogs to check the path to the
font, and it is indeed correct.  After the application quits, I verify that
there are no lingering processes, then I try to throw away the app folder
(because this is still development).  Windows gives me a warning that the
font file is in-use, so I can't trash the folder.  Any suggestions are
welcome.  Again, there are no lingering processes, so I am completely lost.

~Roger


From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Tue Aug 20 17:24:39 2013
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:24:39 +0000
Subject: community vs commercial for internal distribution of iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <1377008939.29883.YahooMailNeo@web28805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
References: <07DDA1D9-11BA-42B3-9AB4-2DA76AD44D51@unimelb.edu.au>,
	<5213456F.8030803@gmail.com>
	<1D74D41C-1E89-47DD-AA31-5C1A30BD315D@unimelb.edu.au>,
	<1377008939.29883.YahooMailNeo@web28805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2E4619EC-62F6-4852-9A51-7A559D554680@unimelb.edu.au>

Thanks Mark - that seems pretty clear.

Terry...

On 21/08/2013, at 12:29 AM, "Mark Wilcox"  wrote:

> It's distribution not use that counts in the GPL. If you put the download behind a login then you could possibly argue that the distribution was entirely internal, however, students are not generally under the control of an organisation in the same way that employees are - a student could legitimately argue that you gave them the binary, therefore you have to give them the source code too. For a company with an internal distribution, employees or sub-contractors are unlikely to raise the same objection. Even if you did make source code available internally, you can contractually prevent employees and sub-contractors from distributing it further, whatever the license says. With students I don't think that's the case.
> 
> Note that the GPL never forces you to publish your source code publicly when distribution is limited, just that everyone who gets the binary also gets the source and is free to pass it on to others.
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Terry Judd 
> To: How to use LiveCode  
> Sent: Tuesday, 20 August 2013, 13:56
> Subject: Re: community vs commercial for internal distribution of iOS apps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20/08/2013, at 8:31 PM, "Richmond"  wrote:
> 
>> On 08/20/2013 06:32 AM, Terry Judd wrote:
>>> I've been looking at the FAQs, and in particular this question...
>>> 
>>> Can you give me some examples of where I do and don't need a commercial license?
>>> 
>>> ... and I'm still not exactly clear on where I stand.
>>> 
>>> My situation is that I am distributing apps to students within my institution using an iOS Enterprise Developer license. The apps are hosted on one of our sites and are can be downloaded by anyone but they will only work for our students as they require users to logon securely through the uni's authentication system. I've been distributing these up to now using a commercial license but I'm wondering whether this is necessary. The pertinent question seems to be - do I need to distribute the source code to students to be within the terms of the community license?
>> 
>> I have a feeling that you have to make the source code available NOT only to the students in your institution, but to anyone who downloads your apps; whether they have a logon account or not.
> I suspect you're right.
> 
>> This means that other institutions could pinch your app.
>> 
>> If this fusses you, you have to buy the commercial version.
> 
> I'm about to renew anyway but was curious about what my obligations were.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Terry...
>> 
>> Richmond.
>> 
>>> Terry...
>>> 
>>> Dr Terry Judd
>>> Senior Lecturer in Medical Education
>>> Medical Education Unit
>>> Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences
>>> The University of Melbourne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 




From pete at lcsql.com  Tue Aug 20 17:31:42 2013
From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:31:42 -0700
Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText
In-Reply-To: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu>
References: 
	<924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu>
Message-ID: 

Thanks Devin.  I guess I'll have to go through the release notes and try to
glean what I can from them.

I know there was a recent thread about the poor quality of the LC docs
which included some reasons why it won;t get updated until the whole open
source thing settles down.  I really hope going forward that RunRev pay
much better attention to keeping the docs up to date with every release.
 It's not realistic to expect users to plough through Release notes to
augment the docs.  Documentation updates have been on the product release
project plan for every software company I've ever worked for.

On the subject of open source, is there a process in place to get
contributed enhancements included in the docs?  I see lots of cool stuff
being discussed on the forum that involve new commands and properties.

Pete
lcSQL Software 


On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Devin Asay  wrote:

>
> On Aug 20, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
>
> > I recently discovered that, contrary to the dictionary entry, htmlText
> > supports any of the standard html entities like ¶, %crarr;, etc
> >
> > With that in mind, does anyone know if the list of supported html tags in
> > the dictionary is complete?  It lists the following:
> >
> > 

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recognizes face= size= lang= color= bgcolor= > > > > > > Well, at a minimum, ordered and unordered list tags and some list > attributes are now supported. > > Devin > > Devin Asay > Learn to code with LiveCode University > http://university.livecode.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Aug 20 17:33:12 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 07:33:12 +1000 Subject: revFontUnload Fail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you have any other apps open that might be using the font? revFont on windows loads the font globally. I've just sent in a pull request to move revFont into the engine with the syntax: start using font file [globally] Where the default is a private font load so other apps can't lock the font file. Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From pete at lcsql.com Tue Aug 20 17:36:07 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:36:07 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: <1C13DF70-CAB7-43B0-A831-53254C664F7C@byu.edu> References: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> <1C13DF70-CAB7-43B0-A831-53254C664F7C@byu.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > There may be others. I've done a lot of experimenting with html formatted > text, which I use to set the htmltext of a field, and then I observe what > "works". Then you can reverse the process and 'put the htmlText' of the > field and see how it is stored in the field. Thanks Devin. I guess it might come down to that for me too. RunRev could do themselves a favor and save a lot of user time if they would just keep this stuff up to date. Pete lcSQL Software From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 20 17:51:48 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:51:48 -0500 Subject: revFontUnload Fail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5213E4F4.5000708@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/20/13 4:19 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > I'm trying to include a font with a desktop application. I don't want to > install the font because the users may not have admin rights. This in on > WinXP and Win7. revFontLoad does the trick perfectly, but in my > closeStackRequest handler is where I try to unload the font, and the result > is "couldn't unload font". > > As a standalone, I included some answer dialogs to check the path to the > font, and it is indeed correct. After the application quits, I verify that > there are no lingering processes, then I try to throw away the app folder > (because this is still development). Windows gives me a warning that the > font file is in-use, so I can't trash the folder. Any suggestions are > welcome. Again, there are no lingering processes, so I am completely lost. Is your standalone still running in the Task Manager? I've seen that happen a number of times, the app won't fully quit. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 20 17:52:57 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:52:57 -0500 Subject: revFontUnload Fail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5213E539.2020902@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/20/13 4:33 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Do you have any other apps open that might be using the font? revFont on windows loads the font globally. I've just sent in a pull request to move revFont into the engine with the syntax: > > start using font file [globally] > > Where the default is a private font load so other apps can't lock the font file. What a great request. We've needed that for a long time. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Aug 20 18:07:18 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:07:18 +1000 Subject: revFontUnload Fail In-Reply-To: <5213E539.2020902@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5213E539.2020902@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 21/08/2013, at 7:52 AM, "J. Landman Gay" wrote: > What a great request. We've needed that for a long time. Blame Trevor for the idea and most of the work ;-) -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 20 18:16:30 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:16:30 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: References: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> Message-ID: <68420258091.20130820151630@ahsoftware.net> Pete- Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 2:31:42 PM, you wrote: > On the subject of open source, is there a process in place to get > contributed enhancements included in the docs? I see lots of cool stuff > being discussed on the forum that involve new commands and properties. Here's the docs editor. It's awkward and buggy, but it mostly gets the job done. https://github.com/runrev/livecode/blob/develop/tools/docs_editor.livecode Best thing to do is fork the repository, git clone it locally, make your changes, push them, and submit a pull request. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 20 18:51:45 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:51:45 -0400 Subject: revFontUnload Fail In-Reply-To: <5213E539.2020902@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5213E539.2020902@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Aug 20, 2013 5:53 PM, "J. Landman Gay" wrote: > > On 8/20/13 4:33 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: >> >> Do you have any other apps open that might be using the font? Nope. I even made sure that the font is not installed on my system, so my system is the same as the end users systems. >> start using font file [globally] >> >> Where the default is a private font load so other apps can't lock the font file. > > > What a great request. We've needed that for a long time. Gotta love this brave new open-source world! > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay ~Roger From pete at lcsql.com Tue Aug 20 19:13:40 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:13:40 -0700 Subject: Stack Menu In-Reply-To: <5213D1D2.6020508@hyperactivesw.com> References: <65AF3778-F21C-454A-B4E7-F0E58B9D7EDC@byu.edu> <5213D1D2.6020508@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Thansk Jacques, I'll try the "ancient" trick. I tried switching traversalOn off and that did prevent the initial highlight but had some other undesired visual effect, too difficult to explain in words. Pete lcSQL Software On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:30 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/20/13 2:26 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> Just tried that and no luck unfortunately. >> >> I can live with it the way it is but it means I will have to relayer a >> bunch of controls which will be in a pain since they're in groups. >> > > There's an ancient trick where you create a tiny editable object, make it > layer 1, and hide it under another control or off screen. When the stack > opens, that object gets the focus and no one sees it. > > Did you try turning off traversalOn on your buttons? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lists at mangomultimedia.com Tue Aug 20 19:26:15 2013 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:26:15 -0400 Subject: revFontUnload Fail In-Reply-To: References: <5213E539.2020902@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:51 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > On Aug 20, 2013 5:53 PM, "J. Landman Gay" wrote: > > > > On 8/20/13 4:33 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> > >> Do you have any other apps open that might be using the font? > > Nope. I even made sure that the font is not installed on my system, so my > system is the same as the end users systems. Roger, What can happen (and what Monte is alluding to) is that any other application that is open and gets a list of available fonts may get a lock on the font file. Since revLoadFont loads the font into the global space, all applications will see it listed when asking the OS for a list of available fonts. I've seen this issue every so often with customers when they try to install updates to my application. I have a password font that gets locked by other apps on the system. That is what led me to investigate how revFontLoad works on Windows. Back when the external Windows 2000 was supported. Windows 2000 doesn't have the ability to load a font specifically for an app which is why revFontLoad works the way it does. Soon (hopefully), thanks to the pull request that Monte sent in, we will be able to keep the font loading specific to the app, not the entire OS. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems www.clarify-it.com - www.screensteps.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 20 19:46:30 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:46:30 -0400 Subject: revFontUnload Fail In-Reply-To: References: <5213E539.2020902@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Thank you both for the research and actioning a plan to fix this problem. I'm thinking that I only had my standalone running. Possibly LiveCode too in some cases, but I usually close it after building. One thing I considered, but haven't tested is to set the font of the objects which use it to empty in the standalone. This would eliminate that potential claim on the font before unloading it. ~Roger On Aug 20, 2013 7:27 PM, "Trevor DeVore" wrote: > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:51 PM, Roger Eller >wrote: > > > On Aug 20, 2013 5:53 PM, "J. Landman Gay" wrote: > > > > > > On 8/20/13 4:33 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> > > >> Do you have any other apps open that might be using the font? > > > > Nope. I even made sure that the font is not installed on my system, so > my > > system is the same as the end users systems. > > > Roger, > > What can happen (and what Monte is alluding to) is that any other > application that is open and gets a list of available fonts may get a lock > on the font file. Since revLoadFont loads the font into the global space, > all applications will see it listed when asking the OS for a list of > available fonts. > > I've seen this issue every so often with customers when they try to install > updates to my application. I have a password font that gets locked by other > apps on the system. That is what led me to investigate how revFontLoad > works on Windows. Back when the external Windows 2000 was supported. > Windows 2000 doesn't have the ability to load a font specifically for an > app which is why revFontLoad works the way it does. > > Soon (hopefully), thanks to the pull request that Monte sent in, we will be > able to keep the font loading specific to the app, not the entire OS. > > -- > Trevor DeVore > Blue Mango Learning Systems > www.clarify-it.com - www.screensteps.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Tue Aug 20 20:48:33 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:48:33 +0000 Subject: revFontUnload Fail In-Reply-To: References: <5213E539.2020902@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <278AD343-F24E-4179-9E99-7792E4EA0726@unimelb.edu.au> What about if you unload the font on suspend and then reload it on resume? Would that prevent other apps from getting hold of it if you switch to them from LC or would they have access to it in the background anyway? Terry... On 21/08/2013, at 09:46 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > Thank you both for the research and actioning a plan to fix this problem. > I'm thinking that I only had my standalone running. Possibly LiveCode too > in some cases, but I usually close it after building. > > One thing I considered, but haven't tested is to set the font of the > objects which use it to empty in the standalone. This would eliminate that > potential claim on the font before unloading it. > > ~Roger > On Aug 20, 2013 7:27 PM, "Trevor DeVore" wrote: > >> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:51 PM, Roger Eller >> wrote: >> >>> On Aug 20, 2013 5:53 PM, "J. Landman Gay" wrote: >>>> >>>> On 8/20/13 4:33 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Do you have any other apps open that might be using the font? >>> >>> Nope. I even made sure that the font is not installed on my system, so >> my >>> system is the same as the end users systems. >> >> >> Roger, >> >> What can happen (and what Monte is alluding to) is that any other >> application that is open and gets a list of available fonts may get a lock >> on the font file. Since revLoadFont loads the font into the global space, >> all applications will see it listed when asking the OS for a list of >> available fonts. >> >> I've seen this issue every so often with customers when they try to install >> updates to my application. I have a password font that gets locked by other >> apps on the system. That is what led me to investigate how revFontLoad >> works on Windows. Back when the external Windows 2000 was supported. >> Windows 2000 doesn't have the ability to load a font specifically for an >> app which is why revFontLoad works the way it does. >> >> Soon (hopefully), thanks to the pull request that Monte sent in, we will be >> able to keep the font loading specific to the app, not the entire OS. >> >> -- >> Trevor DeVore >> Blue Mango Learning Systems >> www.clarify-it.com - www.screensteps.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > Dr Terry Judd Senior Lecturer in Medical Education Medical Education Unit Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences The University of Melbourne From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 20 21:17:29 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:17:29 -0500 Subject: revFontUnload Fail In-Reply-To: References: <5213E539.2020902@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <0b89b909-7d73-4c28-9859-961b7e57426c@email.android.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > >On 21/08/2013, at 7:52 AM, "J. Landman Gay" >wrote: > >> What a great request. We've needed that for a long time. > > >Blame Trevor for the idea and most of the work ;-) Trevor is guilty of many such ideas :-) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pete at lcsql.com Tue Aug 20 21:18:48 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:18:48 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: <68420258091.20130820151630@ahsoftware.net> References: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> <68420258091.20130820151630@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Mark, You said: Best thing to do is fork the repository, git clone it locally, make > your changes, push them, and submit a pull request. > I heard : "Best thing to do is jwehf KJHFKHFTYL *%*%$$$ kjdkhdkjhd pull request" :-) Pete lcSQL Software From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 20 21:24:31 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:24:31 -0500 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: References: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> <68420258091.20130820151630@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <0fb8d141-6812-45e2-911d-57a93dfe5fc5@email.android.com> Peter Haworth wrote: >Mark, > >You said: > >Best thing to do is fork the repository, git clone it locally, make >> your changes, push them, and submit a pull request. >> > >I heard : > >"Best thing to do is jwehf KJHFKHFTYL *%*%$$$ kjdkhdkjhd pull request" I think he said you can push a clone around locally, but you can only pull him if he requests it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Tue Aug 20 21:25:51 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 01:25:51 +0000 Subject: Preventing screen capture hot key combinations In-Reply-To: <168400560327.20130820094812@ahsoftware.net> References: <17FABB71-71AC-4DE9-8DE3-528B05E5DF67@unimelb.edu.au>, , <85536DBA-783F-4CC4-80EF-751881F42D86@verizon.net> <168400560327.20130820094812@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <8480BC72-3001-45EB-9539-04CAC40BABC8@unimelb.edu.au> On 21/08/2013, at 02:48 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Terry- > > Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 5:49:58 AM, you wrote: > >> The computers are in a managed lab so hopefully most could be >> prevented. being able to disable modifier keys would certainly help. > > If this is in a managed lab, what good would screenshots do? Wouldn't > they be confined to the individual computer / lab? Yes, but the tests are being run from within our learning management system, so presumably the student could locate the screengrab (assuming it had been saved as a local file) attach it to an email (we use gmail accounts) and send it to themselves. Whether they would have time to do this in a middle of a test while the room is being patrolled is another thing. > > Fifteen or so years ago I produced a hacked-up version of a standard > web browser for our library system so they could roll out a public > internet and prevent Bad Things from happening, but that's less of an > option now. I'm normally not at all worried about this sort of thing but we have a strict agreement with the provider of the test questions that they will be protected from copying/distribution. However, even if we can somehow prevent 'digital' copying altogether, then it is quite likely that students will attempt to memorise one or two questions each and then pool their recollections - it's a tried and tested technique. Terry... > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > Dr Terry Judd Senior Lecturer in Medical Education Medical Education Unit Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences The University of Melbourne From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 20 21:27:20 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:27:20 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52141778.3080200@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > Mark, > > You said: > > Best thing to do is fork the repository, git clone it locally, make >> your changes, push them, and submit a pull request. >> > > I heard : > > "Best thing to do is jwehf KJHFKHFTYL *%*%$$$ kjdkhdkjhd pull request" > > :-) Cut to Godwin's Law: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDeG4S-mJts :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From endernafi at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 22:13:49 2013 From: endernafi at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ender_Nafi_Elek=C3=A7io=C4=9Flu?=) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 05:13:49 +0300 Subject: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding In-Reply-To: References: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> <1F818303C95F4930870C3B8BEE78DBD4@GATEWAY> <521092AA.8040408@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, I'm aware of Box2D integration and I'm very excited about it. I can't wait to see the possibilities. But, I'm not sure how much performance boost it will give us. I've stumbled on an article tonight about algorithm optimizations. It's kind of a case study. *Spots* finds the wifi hotspots nearby showing on a map and should react user's pinch&zoom act with a 60fps speed. { http://www.savoysoftware.com/blog/my-iphone-is-not-a-mac-pro/ } Nikolai managed to achieve a whopping 200x performance increase by optimization. I tried the unoptimized code in LiveCode. After seeing the results, I didn't bother to code the binary-search. Here it is: ----------------- Cocoa & C++ --- LiveCode iPod Touch--- 194ms ----------- ~2600ms Mac Pro-------- 4ms ------------- ~ 210ms These are both unoptimized algorithms but even if I'd use the binary-search in LiveCode, I wonder that I could achieve 0.883ms on my iPod Touch or 0.016ms on my brand-new desktop. So, an app like *Spots* can never be realized in LiveCode. Achieving a speed like 60fps seems impossible. Isn't this kinda frustrating? I can hear some of you saying: "Well, get over it pal, LiveCode is a RAD tool. this is the price you have to pay in exchange of ease-of-use." Are these features really contradicting? Can't a coding platform be blazing-fast yet having an excellent IDE, built on an event-driven foundation and supporting multiple platforms? I'm not ungrateful, here. Just questioning? After all, LiveCode's paying my rent for nearly 2 years now. Best, ~ Ender Nafi ~? together, we're smarter ?~ From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 21 00:07:06 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:07:06 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: References: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> <68420258091.20130820151630@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <171441294013.20130820210706@ahsoftware.net> Pete- Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 6:18:48 PM, you wrote: > I heard : > "Best thing to do is jwehf KJHFKHFTYL *%*%$$$ kjdkhdkjhd pull request" Well, hey... you asked... -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 21 00:38:02 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:38:02 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: <52141778.3080200@fourthworld.com> References: <52141778.3080200@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <128443149668.20130820213802@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 6:27:20 PM, you wrote: > Cut to Godwin's Law: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDeG4S-mJts > :) Oh my. Thanks for that. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From bogdanoff at me.com Wed Aug 21 00:54:57 2013 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:54:57 -0700 Subject: Creating a line that I can see Message-ID: <58047DF3-E80D-467A-ADF8-D8943C110B3E@me.com> Hi, I want to create an graphic arrow. I script: put the ScoreComColor of this stack into cColor create graphic set the style of last graphic to "Line" set the name of last graphic to "Arrow" set the endArrow of last graphic to true set the lineSize of last graphic to 2 set the arrowSize of last graphic to 6 set the foreGroundColor of last graphic to cColor set the loc of last graphic to 80,70 set the width of last graphic to 72 set the height of last graphic to 72 I see via the Inspector that the graphic was created with the specified properties, and it is visible and selectable. However I don't see any paint on the card. If I use this same script to instead create a rectangle, I see a nice rectangle with the color cColor. When I change that rectangle to a "Line" type (style) in the Inspector, I now see no paint again. Any suggestions? Peter Bogdanoff UCLA From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 21 01:15:42 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:15:42 -0700 Subject: completely OT, but you might want to know Message-ID: <92445410374.20130820221542@ahsoftware.net> Tonight / today is the 150th anniversary of Quantrill's raid in Missouri, and it's being re-enacted "live" on Twitter. The raiders have set off, but most of the action will be tomorrow. https://twitter.com/search?src=typd&q=%23qr1863 -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Aug 21 03:13:57 2013 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 02:13:57 -0500 Subject: LC server experience return anyone ? In-Reply-To: <52139422.3070902@fourthworld.com> References: <1377006300845-4668911.post@n4.nabble.com> <52139422.3070902@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who contributed with wise & useful advices both on and offline. I still have a couple of questions & comments though. A few years ago, when I had the metacard engine installed on a dedicated server, the way it worked was that a new instance of the engine would launch for every incoming request, and would quit once the task was completed. This was ok for the kind of site I was working on : low-trafic site with complex tasks for each request. Is is the same with LC server ? And is there a risk for the server to choke if too many instances launch simultaneously, or is there a way to tell Apache to queue the requests somehow ? And another thing I've been wondering : does the service on-rev offers differ from the above ? Is it simply a hosting service with an LC engine, or some more sophisticated thing, like a long-running version of the engine that could handle many requests simultaneously and faster ? As for installing my own server on a VPS, it is tempting, providing I can find the time to learn how to, being almost a complete newbie regarding server administration. Furthermore, I think it makes sense when you build your own project from scratch, but we're talking about transfering an already existing architecture of various sites and apps, with various add-ons & subdomains & cron jobs... Last but not least, I will feel more confortable knowing my clients' most sensitive data & DBs are on a dedicated server located somewhere in europe than wandering somewhere in the cloud... jbv From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 21 03:33:24 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:33:24 +0200 Subject: Creating a line that I can see In-Reply-To: <58047DF3-E80D-467A-ADF8-D8943C110B3E@me.com> References: <58047DF3-E80D-467A-ADF8-D8943C110B3E@me.com> Message-ID: <52146D44.1090900@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Peter, You need to add the line set the points of the last graphic to 40,35 & cr & 120,105 -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/21/2013 06:54, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Hi, > > I want to create an graphic arrow. I script: > > put the ScoreComColor of this stack into cColor > create graphic > set the style of last graphic to "Line" > set the name of last graphic to "Arrow" > set the endArrow of last graphic to true > set the lineSize of last graphic to 2 > set the arrowSize of last graphic to 6 > set the foreGroundColor of last graphic to cColor > set the loc of last graphic to 80,70 > set the width of last graphic to 72 > set the height of last graphic to 72 > > I see via the Inspector that the graphic was created with the specified properties, and it is visible and selectable. > > However I don't see any paint on the card. If I use this same script to instead create a rectangle, I see a nice rectangle with the color cColor. When I change that rectangle to a "Line" type (style) in the Inspector, I now see no paint again. > > Any suggestions? > > Peter Bogdanoff > UCLA From niggemann at uni-wh.de Wed Aug 21 03:25:51 2013 From: niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Creating a line that I can see In-Reply-To: <58047DF3-E80D-467A-ADF8-D8943C110B3E@me.com> References: <58047DF3-E80D-467A-ADF8-D8943C110B3E@me.com> Message-ID: <1377069951635-4668966.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Peter, you have to add points to the graphic, otherwise it is empty add this to your code ------------------ put item 2 of the loc of last graphic into tY set the points of last graphic to the left of last graphic, tY & cr & the right of last graphic , tY -------------- or any other points Kind regards Bernd -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Creating-a-line-that-I-can-see-tp4668963p4668966.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From andre.bisseret at wanadoo.fr Wed Aug 21 04:22:02 2013 From: andre.bisseret at wanadoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Bisseret?=) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:22:02 +0200 Subject: go to "such name" = go to stack "such name"!? Message-ID: <72B3A242-453B-465C-AC39-B7C521D8B73C@wanadoo.fr> Bonjour, Just discovering the following: In a script I put the short name of a stack into a global, say gStackName then another stack is opened. In a script in this second stack, I had put "go to gStackName instead of "go to stack gStackName and that is working!! (provided that the stack gStackName be opened, of course) I would have sworn that it was not possible! I just verifed with the message box that it was possible to go to any opened stack using (go to "this short name") instead of (go to stack "this short name") That seems not documented in the dictionnary. Am I discovering the wheel? ;-) Best regards Andr? From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 21 04:37:12 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:37:12 +0200 Subject: go to "such name" = go to stack "such name"!? In-Reply-To: <72B3A242-453B-465C-AC39-B7C521D8B73C@wanadoo.fr> References: <72B3A242-453B-465C-AC39-B7C521D8B73C@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <52147C38.30405@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Andr?, That's syntactical flexibility due to HyperCard. It as always been like that. go gStackName works too. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/21/2013 10:22, Andr? Bisseret wrote: > Bonjour, > > Just discovering the following: > In a script I put the short name of a stack into a global, say gStackName > then another stack is opened. > In a script in this second stack, I had put "go to gStackName instead of "go to stack gStackName > > and that is working!! (provided that the stack gStackName be opened, of course) > > I would have sworn that it was not possible! > > I just verifed with the message box that it was possible to go to any opened stack using (go to "this short name") instead of (go to stack "this short name") > > That seems not documented in the dictionnary. > > Am I discovering the wheel? ;-) > > Best regards > > Andr? > From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 21 06:18:07 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:18:07 +0100 (BST) Subject: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding In-Reply-To: References: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> <1F818303C95F4930870C3B8BEE78DBD4@GATEWAY> <521092AA.8040408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1377080287.24246.YahooMailNeo@web28806.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> I wrote an extensive response to your original mail on this thread but sadly lost it to rubbish Yahoo! webmail + the 15k limit on the list. (FWIW, JavaScript is not 50 times slower than C++ but with modern JS engines like Google's v8 more like 5 times + that amazing Citadel demo with the unreal engine is compiled from C++ to asm.js & WebGL and the asm.js is then ahead of time compiled to native code in the browser before it is run - IIRC it only works in Firefox nightlies and is sadly unlikely to be supported in browsers other than Firefox anytime soon). >>?Can't a coding platform be blazing-fast yet having an excellent IDE, built on an event-driven foundation and supporting multiple platforms? The answer here is yes (try coding for Qt in C++ using their excellent Qt Creator IDE) but you also want the convenience of a high-level dynamic language and in that case the answer is no. Even in the article you linked, the author had to give up the convenience of Objective-C and drop down to C++ to get that level of optimisation. The good news is you can also drop down into C++ from LiveCode, so if you really need to optimise some algorithm to that level, you can. The other thing to note is that hardware advances also bail us out, making more and more possible with inefficient tools - the iPhone 5 is about 10 times faster than the iPhone 3G used in that article. Mark From endernafi at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 06:35:02 2013 From: endernafi at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ender_Nafi_Elek=C3=A7io=C4=9Flu?=) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:35:02 +0300 Subject: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding In-Reply-To: <1377080287.24246.YahooMailNeo@web28806.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> <1F818303C95F4930870C3B8BEE78DBD4@GATEWAY> <521092AA.8040408@gmail.com> <1377080287.24246.YahooMailNeo@web28806.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Even in the article you linked, the author had to give up the convenience of Objective-C and drop down to C++ to get that level of optimization." Touch? :-) Btw, I'll give a shot to QT Creator; it looks interesting. And I definitely, definitely have to learn writing externals. Thank you Mark? ~ Ender Nafi ~? together, we're smarter ?~ From andre.bisseret at wanadoo.fr Wed Aug 21 06:48:43 2013 From: andre.bisseret at wanadoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Bisseret?=) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:48:43 +0200 Subject: go to "such name" = go to stack "such name"!? In-Reply-To: <52147C38.30405@economy-x-talk.com> References: <72B3A242-453B-465C-AC39-B7C521D8B73C@wanadoo.fr> <52147C38.30405@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Thanks Mark for your confirmation Best regards Andr? Le 21 ao?t 2013 ? 10:37, Mark Schonewille a ?crit : > Hi Andr?, > > That's syntactical flexibility due to HyperCard. It as always been like that. > > go gStackName > > works too. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi > > Fill out this survey please > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ > > On 8/21/2013 10:22, Andr? Bisseret wrote: >> Bonjour, >> >> Just discovering the following: >> In a script I put the short name of a stack into a global, say gStackName >> then another stack is opened. >> In a script in this second stack, I had put "go to gStackName instead of "go to stack gStackName >> >> and that is working!! (provided that the stack gStackName be opened, of course) >> >> I would have sworn that it was not possible! >> >> I just verifed with the message box that it was possible to go to any opened stack using (go to "this short name") instead of (go to stack "this short name") >> >> That seems not documented in the dictionnary. >> >> Am I discovering the wheel? ;-) >> >> Best regards >> >> Andr? >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From john at splash21.com Wed Aug 21 07:26:02 2013 From: john at splash21.com (John Craig) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:26:02 +0100 Subject: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding In-Reply-To: References: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> <1F818303C95F4930870C3B8BEE78DBD4@GATEWAY> <521092AA.8040408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5214A3CA.9020601@splash21.com> I'm also interested in creating games with LiveCode and looking forward to box2d integration. I've been checking out Corona and (more recently) - Unity (3D), to familiarize myself with physics stuff. It makes a massive difference having a physics engine taking care of collisions, gravity, etc. I assume that box2d performance with LiveCode will be on a par with other platforms using the same engine, so it will really open up a lot of possibilities :D The following Unity demo only required a couple of hundred lines of code, since all the physics was taken care of, so I'm really looking forward to seeing what LiveCode is capable of in the coming months. http://youtu.be/XuA5xbsdx_M Since Unity has a web player, you can have a play around with the demo here; http://splash21.com/Buggy/ On 21/08/2013 03:13, Ender Nafi Elek?io?lu wrote: > Yes, I'm aware of Box2D integration and I'm very excited about it. > I can't wait to see the possibilities. > > But, I'm not sure how much performance boost it will give us. > > I've stumbled on an article tonight about algorithm optimizations. > It's kind of a case study. > *Spots* finds the wifi hotspots nearby showing on a map and should react user's pinch&zoom act with a 60fps speed. > { http://www.savoysoftware.com/blog/my-iphone-is-not-a-mac-pro/ } > Nikolai managed to achieve a whopping 200x performance increase by optimization. > > I tried the unoptimized code in LiveCode. > After seeing the results, I didn't bother to code the binary-search. > Here it is: > ----------------- Cocoa & C++ --- LiveCode > iPod Touch--- 194ms ----------- ~2600ms > Mac Pro-------- 4ms ------------- ~ 210ms > > These are both unoptimized algorithms > but even if I'd use the binary-search in LiveCode, > I wonder that I could achieve 0.883ms on my iPod Touch or 0.016ms on my brand-new desktop. > So, an app like *Spots* can never be realized in LiveCode. Achieving a speed like 60fps seems impossible. > Isn't this kinda frustrating? > > > I can hear some of you saying: > "Well, get over it pal, LiveCode is a RAD tool. > this is the price you have to pay in exchange of ease-of-use." > > Are these features really contradicting? > Can't a coding platform be blazing-fast yet having an excellent IDE, built on an event-driven foundation and supporting multiple platforms? > > I'm not ungrateful, here. Just questioning? > After all, LiveCode's paying my rent for nearly 2 years now. > > > Best, > > ~ Ender Nafi > ~? together, we're smarter ?~ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From john at splash21.com Wed Aug 21 07:29:41 2013 From: john at splash21.com (John Craig) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:29:41 +0100 Subject: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding In-Reply-To: <5214A3CA.9020601@splash21.com> References: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> <1F818303C95F4930870C3B8BEE78DBD4@GATEWAY> <521092AA.8040408@gmail.com> <5214A3CA.9020601@splash21.com> Message-ID: <5214A4A5.9000700@splash21.com> (Use the arrow keys (or A,W,S,D) to control the buggy and the return key to switch camera angle) On 21/08/2013 12:26, John Craig wrote: > I'm also interested in creating games with LiveCode and looking > forward to box2d integration. I've been checking out Corona and (more > recently) - Unity (3D), to familiarize myself with physics stuff. It > makes a massive difference having a physics engine taking care of > collisions, gravity, etc. I assume that box2d performance with > LiveCode will be on a par with other platforms using the same engine, > so it will really open up a lot of possibilities :D > > The following Unity demo only required a couple of hundred lines of > code, since all the physics was taken care of, so I'm really looking > forward to seeing what LiveCode is capable of in the coming months. > http://youtu.be/XuA5xbsdx_M > > Since Unity has a web player, you can have a play around with the demo > here; > http://splash21.com/Buggy/ > > > > On 21/08/2013 03:13, Ender Nafi Elek?io?lu wrote: >> Yes, I'm aware of Box2D integration and I'm very excited about it. >> I can't wait to see the possibilities. >> >> But, I'm not sure how much performance boost it will give us. >> >> I've stumbled on an article tonight about algorithm optimizations. >> It's kind of a case study. >> *Spots* finds the wifi hotspots nearby showing on a map and should >> react user's pinch&zoom act with a 60fps speed. >> { http://www.savoysoftware.com/blog/my-iphone-is-not-a-mac-pro/ } >> Nikolai managed to achieve a whopping 200x performance increase by >> optimization. >> >> I tried the unoptimized code in LiveCode. >> After seeing the results, I didn't bother to code the binary-search. >> Here it is: >> ----------------- Cocoa & C++ --- LiveCode >> iPod Touch--- 194ms ----------- ~2600ms >> Mac Pro-------- 4ms ------------- ~ 210ms >> >> These are both unoptimized algorithms >> but even if I'd use the binary-search in LiveCode, >> I wonder that I could achieve 0.883ms on my iPod Touch or 0.016ms on >> my brand-new desktop. >> So, an app like *Spots* can never be realized in LiveCode. Achieving >> a speed like 60fps seems impossible. >> Isn't this kinda frustrating? >> >> >> I can hear some of you saying: >> "Well, get over it pal, LiveCode is a RAD tool. >> this is the price you have to pay in exchange of ease-of-use." >> >> Are these features really contradicting? >> Can't a coding platform be blazing-fast yet having an excellent IDE, >> built on an event-driven foundation and supporting multiple platforms? >> >> I'm not ungrateful, here. Just questioning? >> After all, LiveCode's paying my rent for nearly 2 years now. >> >> >> Best, >> >> ~ Ender Nafi >> ~? together, we're smarter ?~ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From walter.h.brown at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 07:30:30 2013 From: walter.h.brown at gmail.com (Walt Brown) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 07:30:30 -0400 Subject: completely OT, but you might want to know In-Reply-To: <92445410374.20130820221542@ahsoftware.net> References: <92445410374.20130820221542@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: I have visions of thousands gathered in period costume, every one with head bent down to their device mumbling and thumbing away, wandering aimlessly through the woods in the manner of crowd scenes in vampire movies, tending to clump up wherever the highest signal is, forming a blue and grey signal strength diagram from the air. I wonder if battery life will dictate the outcome of the battle? On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:15 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Tonight / today is the 150th anniversary of Quantrill's raid in > Missouri, and it's being re-enacted "live" on Twitter. The raiders > have set off, but most of the action will be tomorrow. > > https://twitter.com/search?src=typd&q=%23qr1863 > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 21 08:54:56 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:54:56 +0100 (BST) Subject: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding In-Reply-To: <5214A3CA.9020601@splash21.com> References: <2A650C0100F242639191B94DD78CFF50@gmail.com> <1F818303C95F4930870C3B8BEE78DBD4@GATEWAY> <521092AA.8040408@gmail.com> <5214A3CA.9020601@splash21.com> Message-ID: <1377089696.72103.YahooMailNeo@web28805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Box2d is definitely fun to play with but it's really only good for games that inherently need physics simulation - Angry Birds is a good example. (BTW, box2d is also the physics engine in Sprite Kit, which is basically Apple's cocos2d Lite - since the cocos2d developers started focussing on the cross-platform C++ cocos2d-x rather than the Apple only Objective-C original.) Here's a recent article on why you don't want to use a physics engine for a lot of 2D games: http://www.learn-cocos2d.com/2013/08/physics-engine-platformer-terrible-idea/ I've personally been having lots of similar issues with Unity3D building some micro-games recently. The games involve some "magic" and thus objects that don't obey physics. Their interaction with objects that do obey physics needs quite a lot of tweaking. Also physics simulation at high performance on a mobile device is quite CPU intensive, so they turn down the accuracy (this is much more of a problem in 3D than 2D) - that results in lots of tweaks just to avoid simple things like falling objects going straight through the floor! All in all I think it's debatable whether I'd have saved time simply ignoring the physics engine and coding my own limited physics for the little parts of it I needed. You get a lot working quickly by plugging into the physics engine but it then takes ages to polish it to an acceptable quality. I few years ago I ported a successful side scrolling platform game from iOS (cocos2d) to Qt. It did all of its own physics for gravity and collisions and that probably added up to significantly less than 100 lines of code - all very simple maths and not optimised. That still ran comfortably at 60fps on the early iPhones and iPod Touches. I'm not saying box2d isn't a good thing to have for LiveCode, I'm just suggesting we shouldn't expect it to turn the platform into a gaming powerhouse. :) Mark ________________________________ From: John Craig To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Sent: Wednesday, 21 August 2013, 12:26 Subject: Re: Sprite Kit, Box2D, Performance and LiveCode's Approach to Game Coding I'm also interested in creating games with LiveCode and looking forward to box2d integration.? I've been checking out Corona and (more recently) - Unity (3D), to familiarize myself with physics stuff.? It makes a massive difference having a physics engine taking care of collisions, gravity, etc.? I assume that box2d performance with LiveCode will be on a par with other platforms using the same engine, so it will really open up a lot of possibilities :D The following Unity demo only required a couple of hundred lines of code, since all the physics was taken care of, so I'm really looking forward to seeing what LiveCode is capable of in the coming months. http://youtu.be/XuA5xbsdx_M Since Unity has a web player, you can have a play around with the demo here; http://splash21.com/Buggy/ From bogdanoff at me.com Wed Aug 21 10:40:43 2013 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 07:40:43 -0700 Subject: Creating a line that I can see In-Reply-To: <1377069951635-4668966.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <58047DF3-E80D-467A-ADF8-D8943C110B3E@me.com> <1377069951635-4668966.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: YES!, Thank you Mark and Bernd. On Aug 21, 2013, at 12:25 AM, BNig wrote: > Hi Peter, > > you have to add points to the graphic, otherwise it is empty > > add this to your code > > ------------------ > put item 2 of the loc of last graphic into tY > set the points of last graphic to the left of last graphic, tY & cr & the > right of last graphic , tY > -------------- > or any other points > > Kind regards > Bernd > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Creating-a-line-that-I-can-see-tp4668963p4668966.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 14:00:17 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 21:00:17 +0300 Subject: HTML entities not displaying on Chinese Windows In-Reply-To: <9927760C-DC93-4C10-B08F-08498334E574@me.com> References: <85456EE1-1F5A-499B-B562-A89A7484ADFC@me.com> <52134805.1000402@gmail.com> <9927760C-DC93-4C10-B08F-08498334E574@me.com> Message-ID: <52150031.6060501@gmail.com> On 08/20/2013 10:08 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Thanks, Richmond, this makes some sense. > > How then, would I encode fields as unicode so they display reliably? Sorry if I'm being a bit thick, but do you mean in Livecode or in html? I know that anything that is rendered with Unicode exports "transparently" to html just as long as (unlike me) you are not using a non-standard unicode font with "funny characters" in one of the private use areas: if you are the end-user will only be able to view that html if they have the non-standard font loaded on their machine. --------------------------------------------------- Now, as far as I recall you are working on Windows, for Windows; so: 1. install the open source font editing program FONTforge on your machine: http://fontforge.org/ms-install.html or, if you feel an urge to spend buckets of money, install a commercial font prog. such as Fontlab or Fontforge. 2. (And I am presuming you know a few thousand Hanji !!!) open your bog-standard Chinese font with your font program so that you can see the Unicode addresses of each character. 2.1. Failing this kidnap/hijack/co-opt/hire a Chinese-American who knows his/her stuff. 3. These may display in hexadecimal, so you need some sort of calculator to convert those to decimal values that Livecode will understand. 4. I want to produce the Devanagari (Hindi, Sanskrit) sign for 'Ka' so I do this: set the useUnicode to true set the unicodeText of fld "crappyText" to numToChar(2325) 5. I want to add 'Ka' to my text: set the useUnicode to true set the unicodeText of fld "crappyText" to the unicodeText of fld "crappyText" & numToChar(2325) 6. I want to insert a 'Ka' at the insertion point (cursor) in my field: set the useUnicode to true set the unicodeText of the selected of fld "crappyText" to numToChar(2325) Umm . . . possibly this will work rather than the above: set the useUnicode to true set the unicodeText of the selected to numToChar(2325) 7. Your mileage may vary :) 8. Exporting to html is easy-peasy-non-politically-correct-vaguely-racist-appellation-for-a-far-eastern-person :) 9. Do not chase me round the town with a cut-throat razor when this turns out to be complete and utter rubbish. Richmond. > > Peter > > On Aug 20, 2013, at 3:42 AM, Richmond wrote: > >> On 08/20/2013 01:51 AM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> The music history e-book we've been working on for the last couple of years has gotten to the point of having some people in China now translate large parts of it to Chinese. However when they open the compiled version on their Windows machines they see funny characters wherever we use an HTML entity in the HTMLtext of fields. Em dash, double quotation marks, accents, etc., all show this. >>> >>> In our classroom use of it, Chinese students at UCLA don't complain about this problem. I don't know much about system settings in Windows, but I see Chinese characters in the system settings for some of the UCLA students whom I have to do other kinds of tech support. >>> >>> What could be different about the Windows systems in Shanghai--at least two different people report the same issue? >> Well the first thing is to reflect on the fact that, rather like the 2 Koreas there are 2 Chinas: The People's Republic of China and the Republic of China (a.k.a. Taiwan), and they have no great love for one another. Now they have both developed their own ways of representing Chinese on computers . . . >> >> Mainland China uses the Guobiao encoding system (1,2 or 4 byte). >> >> Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau use Big5 (1 or 2 byte) >> >> There is also the Unicode method . . . >> and here's a groovy phrase I found trawling around on the Merry Internet: "The conversion between traditional and simplified Chinese is usually problematic" . . . Hey Nonny Nonny Nonny Nooooooooooo. >> >> Now I don't what version of Windows all these Chinese speaking people might be using, but Windows has >> a history of multiple encoding strategies that is like a minefield. >> >> Sorry to be such a damp squish. >> >> Richmond. >> >> P.S. You will probably be best going for Unicode encoding as this seems to work (on the whole) on any version >> of Windows from XP onwards. >> >>> These people are grad music students, not computer nerds, so I don't have much to go on. I had them install the Georgia and Helvetica fonts, which are all we use, and probably what they had to begin with. >>> >>> I also had to strip out all those characters in the version I finally sent them to translate so they could work. We want to sell the program there eventually--there's a large market there for Western music education, so this worries me. >>> >>> Any suggestions? >>> >>> Peter Bogdanoff >>> UCLA >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From userev at canelasoftware.com Wed Aug 21 17:17:52 2013 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 14:17:52 -0700 Subject: ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! Message-ID: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Fellow developers. I am happy to announce that we got our first iPad app approved for the iTunes store. It took 5 days to get through. Details: The app is free. It is a companion app to a desktop service/product we provide for the vision testing market. There is an in-app component to make the app do more, but there is a twist. We are billing through the desktop app to make the mobile app get extended features. The iPad app communicates with the desktop app to know if the purchase as been made. You can probably guess what that means. We used Monte's socket external for iOS to make the communication between the iPad and the desktop work. We specifically use UDP for all communication. It is extremely fast and reliable. We could not be happier with Monte's work on that external. This app may not be very popular with the kids, but our market is very excited about it. You can see it from the following link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/acuity-system-remote/id689381187?mt=8 If you are curious about the interoperability between iPad and desktops, feel free to download the desktop app from: try2020.com. My mind is racing with all the possibilities. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 21 18:20:34 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 08:20:34 +1000 Subject: ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! In-Reply-To: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <3620B9BA-DA32-412E-A452-94B6AD951A96@sweattechnologies.com> On 22/08/2013, at 7:17 AM, Mark Talluto wrote: > We used Monte's socket external for iOS to make the communication between the iPad and the desktop work. We specifically use UDP for all communication. It is extremely fast and reliable. We could not be happier with Monte's work on that external. Thanks Mark, glad it's getting the job done. Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From iowahengst at mac.com Wed Aug 21 18:26:46 2013 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 17:26:46 -0500 Subject: ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! In-Reply-To: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: Hi Mark, Congrats! How did you handle the "retina" requirement? be well, randy hengst ----- On Aug 21, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: > Fellow developers. I am happy to announce that we got our first iPad app approved for the iTunes store. It took 5 days to get through. > > Details: > The app is free. It is a companion app to a desktop service/product we provide for the vision testing market. There is an in-app component to make the app do more, but there is a twist. We are billing through the desktop app to make the mobile app get extended features. The iPad app communicates with the desktop app to know if the purchase as been made. You can probably guess what that means. > > We used Monte's socket external for iOS to make the communication between the iPad and the desktop work. We specifically use UDP for all communication. It is extremely fast and reliable. We could not be happier with Monte's work on that external. > > This app may not be very popular with the kids, but our market is very excited about it. You can see it from the following link: > https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/acuity-system-remote/id689381187?mt=8 > > If you are curious about the interoperability between iPad and desktops, feel free to download the desktop app from: try2020.com. > My mind is racing with all the possibilities. > > > Best regards, > > Mark Talluto > canelasoftware.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Aug 21 18:37:48 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 22:37:48 +0000 Subject: HTTP proxies In-Reply-To: References: <43367F02-2C38-4B8F-AEAD-70A912A20AD0@byu.edu> Message-ID: <187B788E-11B6-40E5-9EB9-E93D3F779869@byu.edu> So Trevor, when, if ever, is the HTTPProxy property in LiveCode useful? On Aug 20, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > >> I am a neophyte when it comes to proxy servers. My application phones home >> on occasion via HTTP requests (mostly GET but some PUT) to get content >> update updates and such. One user has reported that this fails because the >> application isn't set up to use his university's proxy server. >> >> I found the HTTPProxy property in the dictionary. Is it sufficient to give >> users a way in my application to enter their HTTP proxy server address? >> This is also a point of confusion to me. I thought that the HTTP proxy was >> an OS setting that users set up when setting their network settings. Can >> anyone point me in the right direction? >> > > Ah, proxy servers. When it comes to proxy servers, what will work is highly > dependent on how the proxy server is set up. Here are a couple of scenarios > to consider. I have come across all of them while working with customers. > > 1) The user has a predefined proxy IP address stored in the OS. No > authentication required. > > 2) The user has a predefined proxy IP address with a username/password that > they need to enter. The proxy server might use Basic or Digest > authentication. > > 3a) The proxy server is determined by a PAC file that lives on their > internal network. This PAC file is javascript that determines which proxy > server should be used based on the URL that is being requested. > > 3b) You might have to find a PAC file on the network using the WPAD > detection protocol. > > 4) NTLM authentication may be required in which case you need an external > to handle the various handshakes between proxy server and your app. > > In addition, if you are requesting urls using https then you need support > for the CONNECT protocol. libURL does not support this but curl does (if > you have a binary that was compiled correctly). > > So basically proxy servers are a major pain to deal with. > > If the user is behind a static proxy server IP address then you could > create a dialog allowing them to enter that address. If the proxy needs a > username/password then you also have to determine the auth type (e.g. > Basic, Digest, ?). > > For PAC files it becomes more complicated as does NTLM. > > The GLX App Framework has a version of libURL that can support everything > except for https connections through proxy servers (NTLM is handled by an > external That Chipp and Chris provided). I've had to resort to a custom > version of libURL built around curl for CONNECT support, but that isn't > publicly available. > > If you download the latest GLX Application Framework code then you can get > to the internet library and the routines for processing PAC/finding PAC (in > the glxappFramework stack file). > > Here are some docs I have for it: > > http://www.bluemangolearning.com/revolution/docs/glxapp_framework/api_docs/Documents/stack_glxapplicationFramework_package_10810598858276329711010032801141111201213283117112112111114116.htm > > http://revolution.screenstepslive.com/s/revolution/m/glxapp/c/1950 > > -- > Trevor DeVore > Blue Mango Learning Systems > www.clarify-it.com - www.screensteps.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 21 19:21:13 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:21:13 -0700 Subject: LC server experience return anyone ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52154B69.8010600@fourthworld.com> jbv wrote: > A few years ago, when I had the metacard engine installed on a > dedicated server, the way it worked was that a new instance of > the engine would launch for every incoming request, and would > quit once the task was completed. This was ok for the kind of > site I was working on : low-trafic site with complex tasks for > each request. > Is is the same with LC server ? Yes, and it's the same for most CGI applications, such as PHP, Perl, etc. In essence these are just command line apps called from Apache. It's possible to set up PHP and Perl as stay-resident processes using mod_php/mod_perl, but on Dreamhost and others they don't do that because of server load - see the note here: > And is there a risk for the server to choke if too many instances > launch simultaneously, or is there a way to tell Apache to queue > the requests somehow ? This is a question I've been pondering myself, esp. when comparing LC Server-based systems to complex beasts like Drupal. When PHP us running as a CGI, all the core components of Drupal are loaded and initialized with each run - this is usually more overhead than most of us have with our LC Server apps (for example, the Drupal docs note a minimum RAM requirement of 18 MBs, while a single instance of LC server generally takes less than 2MB). When a CGI app is done its memory is freed up, so the hit only comes for the duration in which simultaneous requests are being processed. So it would seem likely that you'll have multiple instances of LC Server running simultaneously during peak hours. But on the flipside, Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla and other complex systems are based on PHP, which is often run as a CGI, so even with multiple instances it would seem the impact is minimal. Anyone have any good metrics on CGI RAM usage at scale? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From userev at canelasoftware.com Wed Aug 21 19:40:40 2013 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:40:40 -0700 Subject: ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! In-Reply-To: References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: On Aug 21, 2013, at 3:26 PM, Randy Hengst wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Congrats! > > How did you handle the "retina" requirement? > > be well, > randy hengst Hi Randy, Eric wrote the app. In his words, "It is totally ghetto!" He basically had the app memorize the rect of each control after laying them all out. He then walks through each control and sets the rect based on the size of the screenRect. The layout is pretty basic so it is not noticeable. But, we are looking forward to the coming advancements from the stretch goals to improve this. -Mark From alex at tweedly.net Wed Aug 21 19:41:17 2013 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 00:41:17 +0100 Subject: OT - Re: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: <521390A6.7040903@fourthworld.com> References: <52132B09.6040708@pair.com> <521390A6.7040903@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5215501D.9010803@tweedly.net> On 20/08/2013 16:52, Richard Gaskin wrote: > This is why I love this community: > > ... > Collectively, there's nothing we can't solve. :) > > -- > Richard Gaskin I've often thought that if I had *any* technical question, I could ask this list and there would be someone who knew (or at least had a very good idea of) the answer. So here goes ... :-) Every night when I watch the news on TV, they say something like "Here's (John Smith) at the news conference held this afternoon. Warning - this report contains some flash photography". Now I know why they give this warning - that repeated rapid flashing from still cameras can cause problems for nystagmus, epilepsy and various other disease sufferers. What I don't know is why they don't just digitally edit out the flashing. Surely this must be (relatively) easy Digital Video Processing - you detect a non-trivial part (10% threshold??) of the frame which increases in light level for a single frame (assuming anything between 20 and 60 fps) and then returns to its original levels. OK - I know almost nothing about DVP, but if they can overlay a touchdown line on a football field, or change a Coke to Pepsi can, or all those other marvels, surely it can't be that hard to eliminate 95% of the flashing - and wouldn't that would be enough to reduce it below the trigger point for most vulnerable viewers. It needn't even be done in real time - it could be left as a warning for any live showing, and then automatically removed by program and checked by a human editor before subsequent showings. -- Alex. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Aug 21 20:03:19 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 20:03:19 -0400 Subject: OT - Re: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: <5215501D.9010803@tweedly.net> References: <52132B09.6040708@pair.com> <521390A6.7040903@fourthworld.com> <5215501D.9010803@tweedly.net> Message-ID: If they can edit what we "see" in a journalist presentation of the facts, have they not in a way, erased some of the truth? ~Roger On Aug 21, 2013 7:41 PM, "Alex Tweedly" wrote: > On 20/08/2013 16:52, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> This is why I love this community: >> >> ... >> Collectively, there's nothing we can't solve. :) >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> > I've often thought that if I had *any* technical question, I could ask > this list and there would be someone who knew (or at least had a very good > idea of) the answer. So here goes ... :-) > > Every night when I watch the news on TV, they say something like "Here's > (John Smith) at the news conference held this afternoon. Warning - this > report contains some flash photography". > > Now I know why they give this warning - that repeated rapid flashing from > still cameras can cause problems for nystagmus, epilepsy and various other > disease sufferers. > > What I don't know is why they don't just digitally edit out the flashing. > Surely this must be (relatively) easy Digital Video Processing - you detect > a non-trivial part (10% threshold??) of the frame which increases in light > level for a single frame (assuming anything between 20 and 60 fps) and then > returns to its original levels. > > OK - I know almost nothing about DVP, but if they can overlay a touchdown > line on a football field, or change a Coke to Pepsi can, or all those other > marvels, surely it can't be that hard to eliminate 95% of the flashing - > and wouldn't that would be enough to reduce it below the trigger point for > most vulnerable viewers. It needn't even be done in real time - it could be > left as a warning for any live showing, and then automatically removed by > program and checked by a human editor before subsequent showings. > > -- Alex. > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From feed at smpcsupport.com Wed Aug 21 20:28:03 2013 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 17:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: LC server experience return anyone ? In-Reply-To: <52154B69.8010600@fourthworld.com> References: <1a43f64cdcec8a64c8a1aa83e6361511.squirrel@thor.on-rev.com> <1377006300845-4668911.post@n4.nabble.com> <52139422.3070902@fourthworld.com> <52154B69.8010600@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1377131283354-4668992.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi jbv, I Know what you means about setting up from scratch on a VPS if you have a many sites to host and it was all done in a Control Panel. I still don't know how to set up multiple domains, cron jobs, smtp/pop on my VPS. Fortunately I could just ignore those issues for my purposes. These are skills I will learn, but it all takes time. On a side issue not all VPS accounts are in the "Cloud" where the virtual machine is free to move to whatever resources the hosting company sees fit. My VPS is tied to a specific machine in a specific data centre that I nominated. Doing it this way may cost more per month, but it was essential for my data to stay here in Sydney. Scott ----- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC-server-experience-return-anyone-tp4668862p4668992.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp Wed Aug 21 20:57:53 2013 From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 09:57:53 +0900 Subject: OT - Re: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: References: <52132B09.6040708@pair.com> <521390A6.7040903@fourthworld.com> <5215501D.9010803@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <52156211.1010403@tkf.att.ne.jp> Oh, golly. I work in broadcast (though not news.) ALL, and I mean ALL, news, documentaries, etc., etc. 'erase' some of the truth via editing, in what they decided to shoot and in what they never bothered to film in the first place. Taking out flashes in a news conference is the very LEAST of the 'erasing of truth' that goes on. It is all biased in one way or another. It can't be helped -- we're humans. Even if we try to be absolutely unbiased, we are riddled with culture, thought patterns, values that we cannot keep out of our communication. I'm afraid you're not getting 'truth' via broadcasts -- your getting the broadcasters' (or advertisers?) interpretation of the truth. OK, off the soapbox.... My guess is that it is strictly a cost issue. Much cheaper just to verbally warn people who have issues with flashing lights. Do glitzy stuff like lines and graphics on a football field can attract millions of football fans, nicely packaged up for the advertisers. Worth the cost. Edit out the flashes, and gain a handful of viewers who suffer from certain disease? Doesn't pay.... Also, taking out a random flash here and there is relatively easy and would not noticeably affect the picture. However, say the president grimaces -- every camera/flash in the place goes off, giving you mostly flashes for a second or two. Taking those out would do very noticeable 'damage' to the picture. Most viewers will not notice a single dropped frame. But when you start dropping 30 to 50% of the frames, they'll notice! Tim Selander Tokyo, Japan On 8/22/13 9:03 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > If they can edit what we "see" in a journalist presentation of the facts, > have they not in a way, erased some of the truth? > > ~Roger > On Aug 21, 2013 7:41 PM, "Alex Tweedly" wrote: > >> On 20/08/2013 16:52, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >>> This is why I love this community: >>> >>> ... >>> Collectively, there's nothing we can't solve. :) >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> >> I've often thought that if I had *any* technical question, I could ask >> this list and there would be someone who knew (or at least had a very good >> idea of) the answer. So here goes ... :-) >> >> Every night when I watch the news on TV, they say something like "Here's >> (John Smith) at the news conference held this afternoon. Warning - this >> report contains some flash photography". >> >> Now I know why they give this warning - that repeated rapid flashing from >> still cameras can cause problems for nystagmus, epilepsy and various other >> disease sufferers. >> >> What I don't know is why they don't just digitally edit out the flashing. >> Surely this must be (relatively) easy Digital Video Processing - you detect >> a non-trivial part (10% threshold??) of the frame which increases in light >> level for a single frame (assuming anything between 20 and 60 fps) and then >> returns to its original levels. >> >> OK - I know almost nothing about DVP, but if they can overlay a touchdown >> line on a football field, or change a Coke to Pepsi can, or all those other >> marvels, surely it can't be that hard to eliminate 95% of the flashing - >> and wouldn't that would be enough to reduce it below the trigger point for >> most vulnerable viewers. It needn't even be done in real time - it could be >> left as a warning for any live showing, and then automatically removed by >> program and checked by a human editor before subsequent showings. >> >> -- Alex. >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 21 21:29:20 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 21:29:20 -0400 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> References: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard, $# causes the script editor to mark the rest of the line as a comment. $# still works? On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mike, these tips for implementing CLI support in a standalone may help: > > > > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From lists at mangomultimedia.com Wed Aug 21 21:36:37 2013 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 21:36:37 -0400 Subject: HTTP proxies In-Reply-To: <187B788E-11B6-40E5-9EB9-E93D3F779869@byu.edu> References: <43367F02-2C38-4B8F-AEAD-70A912A20AD0@byu.edu> <187B788E-11B6-40E5-9EB9-E93D3F779869@byu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > So Trevor, when, if ever, is the HTTPProxy property in LiveCode useful? You still use HTTPProxy in each case. When using a PAC file to determine the IP address of the proxy server you assign the IP address that the PAC file returns to the HTTPProxy property. libURL will then use that proxy server when requesting the URL. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems www.clarify-it.com - www.screensteps.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 21 21:57:51 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 21:57:51 -0400 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: And Mark S., sorry, I wasn't ignoring you, I just didn't see your message. I have a system that's written in 4D that needs some functionality added to it. The code to do that is already written in LC. Converting it would work, but why bother, when I can just create a standalone in LC that I call from 4D? On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Richard, > $# causes the script editor to mark the rest of the line as a comment. $# > still works? > > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Richard Gaskin < > ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote: > >> Mike, these tips for implementing CLI support in a standalone may help: >> >> > April/186750.html >> > >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World >> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com >> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com >> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 21 22:02:15 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 22:02:15 -0400 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: And the reason that sockets aren't an option is because they aren't native in 4D. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > And Mark S., sorry, I wasn't ignoring you, I just didn't see your message. > I have a system that's written in 4D that needs some functionality added > to it. The code to do that is already written in LC. Converting it would > work, but why bother, when I can just create a standalone in LC that I call > from 4D? > > > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> Richard, >> $# causes the script editor to mark the rest of the line as a comment. >> $# still works? >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Richard Gaskin < >> ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote: >> >>> Mike, these tips for implementing CLI support in a standalone may help: >>> >>> >> April/186750.html >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World >>> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com >>> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com >>> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 21 22:07:41 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 22:07:41 -0400 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: And one more thing - similar to writing to stdout, can I write to stderr? On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:02 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > And the reason that sockets aren't an option is because they aren't native > in 4D. > > > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> And Mark S., sorry, I wasn't ignoring you, I just didn't see your message. >> I have a system that's written in 4D that needs some functionality added >> to it. The code to do that is already written in LC. Converting it would >> work, but why bother, when I can just create a standalone in LC that I call >> from 4D? >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: >> >>> Richard, >>> $# causes the script editor to mark the rest of the line as a comment. >>> $# still works? >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Richard Gaskin < >>> ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Mike, these tips for implementing CLI support in a standalone may help: >>>> >>>> >>> April/186750.html >>>> > >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richard Gaskin >>>> Fourth World >>>> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com >>>> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com >>>> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mgruenthal at mac.com Wed Aug 21 22:19:52 2013 From: mgruenthal at mac.com (Michael Gruenthal) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 22:19:52 -0400 Subject: ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! In-Reply-To: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: Doesn't that violate the terms of your agreement with Apple? -----Original Message----- From: Mark Talluto Reply-To: How to use LiveCode Date: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:17 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! Fellow developers. I am happy to announce that we got our first iPad app approved for the iTunes store. It took 5 days to get through. Details: The app is free. It is a companion app to a desktop service/product we provide for the vision testing market. There is an in-app component to make the app do more, but there is a twist. We are billing through the desktop app to make the mobile app get extended features. The iPad app communicates with the desktop app to know if the purchase as been made. You can probably guess what that means. We used Monte's socket external for iOS to make the communication between the iPad and the desktop work. We specifically use UDP for all communication. It is extremely fast and reliable. We could not be happier with Monte's work on that external. This app may not be very popular with the kids, but our market is very excited about it. You can see it from the following link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/acuity-system-remote/id689381187?mt=8 If you are curious about the interoperability between iPad and desktops, feel free to download the desktop app from: try2020.com. My mind is racing with all the possibilities. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 21 22:32:38 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:32:38 -0700 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <122522025680.20130821193238@ahsoftware.net> Mike- Wednesday, August 21, 2013, 7:07:41 PM, you wrote: > And one more thing - similar to writing to stdout, can I write to stderr? Yes. I've lost track of what platform you're doing this on. But anyway, yes. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 21 22:47:26 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 12:47:26 +1000 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <56AB53C7-18BD-47AB-A6E5-D21E623FC812@sweattechnologies.com> On 22/08/2013, at 12:07 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > And one more thing - similar to writing to stdout, can I write to stderr? I haven't been following this thread but as I've just implemented child process control via open process for update in the parent and read from STDIN and write to STDOUT in the child I can tell you to watch out for the fact that STDOUT will buffer until you write a line break ;-) Had me scratching my head for a while. Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 21 22:56:25 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 22:56:25 -0400 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: <56AB53C7-18BD-47AB-A6E5-D21E623FC812@sweattechnologies.com> References: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> <56AB53C7-18BD-47AB-A6E5-D21E623FC812@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: I'm doing this on Windoze On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:47 PM, Monte Goulding < monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote: > > On 22/08/2013, at 12:07 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > And one more thing - similar to writing to stdout, can I write to stderr? > > I haven't been following this thread but as I've just implemented child > process control via open process for update in the parent and read from > STDIN and write to STDOUT in the child I can tell you to watch out for the > fact that STDOUT will buffer until you write a line break ;-) > > Had me scratching my head for a while. > > Cheers > > -- > M E R Goulding > Software development services > Bespoke application development for vertical markets > > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From pktemp50 at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 23:41:47 2013 From: pktemp50 at gmail.com (Paul Kocsis) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 22:41:47 -0500 Subject: mobilePickPhoto "camera" - unstable on android Message-ID: At present time, testing with community 6.1.1rc2. I'm finding that on android, mobilePickPhoto "camera" is NOT stable. On a 4.1.3 galaxy s2, about 1 out of 30-ish (sometimes more) calls to mobilePickPhoto "camera" will not return (I.E. mobilePickPhoto "camera' is called, camera comes up, photo is taken, 'save' is tapped, then app crashes and immediately restarts). I know that when a crash occurs, it is inside mobilePickPhoto "camera" as the next statement after mobilePickPhoto does not get called. It is MUCH worse on a Motorola Atrix 2.3.5. I can fairly easily get this crash to occur (maybe 1 out of 5 or 10 attempts). (grasping at straws, but...) It almost seems like the older the phone/android, the more often it happens...but although not the latest, a galaxy s2 running 4.1.3 experiences the problem too (just not as often)...I have tried to put a "wait for 100 milli with messages before and after the mobilePickPhoto "camera" command but it has not affected the crashes (can't *really* put a wait for 100... immediately after since if I do I lose "the result" from mobilePickPhoto, so I do a 'put the result into tresult' and then do my wait....but no matter.....doesn't make things better or worse). Is there anyone out there that has had more than a cursory use of mobilePickPhoto "camera" on android than can either deny or confirm what I am seeing? Thanks! Paul K. From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Aug 21 23:45:03 2013 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 23:45:03 -0400 Subject: ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! In-Reply-To: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <7c864a50-df96-44d9-bcdb-1e424d505923@blur> CONGRATS!!!!! We tried to use what we saw as the Netflix billing model and got approved. Then in an app update a few months later Apple ask for a detailed workflow. I did not lie and Apple said "no no no, use in app purchase and give us the 30%". I had to implement in app purchases to get a new version approved. Apple did NOT take down the existing app version. I asked for mediation and talked with a person and was told that the "Netflix model" was a special carve out for audio/video streaming apps. So.... I just implemented in-app-purchases and got appoved first time out(thanks to RR support and the good folks on this list.) Ralph DiMola MIS Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original message----- From: Mark Talluto To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 21:17:52 GMT+00:00 Subject: ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! Fellow developers. I am happy to announce that we got our first iPad app approved for the iTunes store. It took 5 days to get through. Details: The app is free. It is a companion app to a desktop service/product we provide for the vision testing market. There is an in-app component to make the app do more, but there is a twist. We are billing through the desktop app to make the mobile app get extended features. The iPad app communicates with the desktop app to know if the purchase as been made. You can probably guess what that means. We used Monte's socket external for iOS to make the communication between the iPad and the desktop work. We specifically use UDP for all communication. It is extremely fast and reliable. We could not be happier with Monte's work on that external. This app may not be very popular with the kids, but our market is very excited about it. You can see it from the following link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/acuity-system-remote/id689381187?mt=8 If you are curious about the interoperability between iPad and desktops, feel free to download the desktop app from: try2020.com. My mind is racing with all the possibilities. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 21 23:52:26 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 20:52:26 -0700 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> <56AB53C7-18BD-47AB-A6E5-D21E623FC812@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <111526813904.20130821205226@ahsoftware.net> Mike- Wednesday, August 21, 2013, 7:56:25 PM, you wrote: > I'm doing this on Windoze In that case, stderr will go directly to the console, while stdout needs to be caught with redirection. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From alex at tweedly.net Thu Aug 22 03:58:23 2013 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 08:58:23 +0100 Subject: OT - Re: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: References: <52132B09.6040708@pair.com> <521390A6.7040903@fourthworld.com> <5215501D.9010803@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <5215C49F.4060206@tweedly.net> On 22/08/2013 01:03, Roger Eller wrote: > If they can edit what we "see" in a journalist presentation of the facts, > have they not in a way, erased some of the truth? > Yes in some strict sense. But any video shoot (or still photo) does that anyway - the eye can handle very wide variations in light intensity, but photo/video can't, so the cameraman attempts to capture as much of the important detail as she can. But 'auto light level' (or AWB, or any other adjustment) will vary the detail captured. Not so much 'erase the truth' as 'try to convey as much as the tools allow', and I'd see 'flash suppression' (if it could be done properly) as a similar attempt to allow more people to watch a particular clip. But Tim is right - it's a cost issue rather than a technical one; and although a TV station might be able to do this and help promote their "greater community concern" for disabled folks, the affected target is probably too small to cost-justify it. Thirty years ago you wouldn't have seen on your TV screens BSL (or ASL) signers or real-time subtitling - maybe this will come some day. Thanks -- Alex. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 22 04:11:57 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:11:57 +0200 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5215C7CD.9040903@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Mike, In that case, sockets are indeed not the right approach. It should be possible to use a standalone as a command line utility, with parameters as I explained before. Hiding the LiveCode interface would seem more elegant to me. Maybe you can still use -u to hide the user interface altogether. You could also set the visible of your stacks to false. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/22/2013 03:57, Mike Kerner wrote: > And Mark S., sorry, I wasn't ignoring you, I just didn't see your message. > I have a system that's written in 4D that needs some functionality added to > it. The code to do that is already written in LC. Converting it would > work, but why bother, when I can just create a standalone in LC that I call > from 4D? > > From neil at runrev.com Thu Aug 22 04:44:41 2013 From: neil at runrev.com (Neil Roger) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 09:44:41 +0100 Subject: mobilePickPhoto "camera" - unstable on android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5215CF79.3050502@runrev.com> Hi Paul, If possible, could you submit a bug report on this issue with RunRev Quality Control and we will be happy to investigate it further. You will be able to submit a report here- http://quality.runrev.com Kind Regards, Neil Roger -- RunRev Support Team ~ http://www.runrev.com -- On 22/08/2013 04:41, Paul Kocsis wrote: > At present time, testing with community 6.1.1rc2. > > I'm finding that on android, mobilePickPhoto "camera" is NOT stable. On a > 4.1.3 galaxy s2, about 1 out of 30-ish (sometimes more) calls to > mobilePickPhoto "camera" will not return (I.E. mobilePickPhoto "camera' is > called, camera comes up, photo is taken, 'save' is tapped, then app crashes > and immediately restarts). I know that when a crash occurs, it is > inside mobilePickPhoto "camera" as the next statement after mobilePickPhoto > does not get called. It is MUCH worse on a Motorola Atrix 2.3.5. I can > fairly easily get this crash to occur (maybe 1 out of 5 or 10 attempts). > > (grasping at straws, but...) It almost seems like the older the > phone/android, the more often it happens...but although not the latest, a > galaxy s2 running 4.1.3 experiences the problem too (just not as often)...I > have tried to put a "wait for 100 milli with messages before and after the > mobilePickPhoto "camera" command but it has not affected the crashes (can't > *really* put a wait for 100... immediately after since if I do I lose "the > result" from mobilePickPhoto, so I do a 'put the result into tresult' and > then do my wait....but no matter.....doesn't make things better or worse). > > Is there anyone out there that has had more than a cursory use of > mobilePickPhoto "camera" on android than can either deny or confirm what I > am seeing? > > Thanks! > > Paul K. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From curry at pair.com Thu Aug 22 05:03:22 2013 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 04:03:22 -0500 Subject: OT - Re: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: <52156211.1010403@tkf.att.ne.jp> References: <52156211.1010403@tkf.att.ne.jp> Message-ID: <5215D3DA.6070805@pair.com> > I'm afraid you're not getting 'truth' via broadcasts Everything on TV is always true. Talking heads are infallible and edits only enhance the facts. Anything omitted was never worth knowing. Polls and statistics can never mislead. If you doubt this, you will develop a bad rash and be placed on some watch lists, and animals will run away from you. Best wishes, Curry K. From pktemp50 at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 05:34:05 2013 From: pktemp50 at gmail.com (Paul Kocsis) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 04:34:05 -0500 Subject: mobilePickPhoto "camera" - unstable on android In-Reply-To: <5215CF79.3050502@runrev.com> References: <5215CF79.3050502@runrev.com> Message-ID: Hello Neil, Thank you so much for responding. I have done so, here is the link: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11118 Thanks again Neil! Paul K On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:44 AM, Neil Roger wrote: > Hi Paul, > > If possible, could you submit a bug report on this issue with RunRev > Quality Control and we will be happy to investigate it further. > > You will be able to submit a report here- > > http://quality.runrev.com > > Kind Regards, > > Neil Roger > -- > RunRev Support Team ~ http://www.runrev.com > -- > > > On 22/08/2013 04:41, Paul Kocsis wrote: > >> At present time, testing with community 6.1.1rc2. >> >> I'm finding that on android, mobilePickPhoto "camera" is NOT stable. On a >> 4.1.3 galaxy s2, about 1 out of 30-ish (sometimes more) calls to >> mobilePickPhoto "camera" will not return (I.E. mobilePickPhoto "camera' is >> called, camera comes up, photo is taken, 'save' is tapped, then app >> crashes >> and immediately restarts). I know that when a crash occurs, it is >> inside mobilePickPhoto "camera" as the next statement after >> mobilePickPhoto >> does not get called. It is MUCH worse on a Motorola Atrix 2.3.5. I can >> fairly easily get this crash to occur (maybe 1 out of 5 or 10 attempts). >> >> (grasping at straws, but...) It almost seems like the older the >> phone/android, the more often it happens...but although not the latest, a >> galaxy s2 running 4.1.3 experiences the problem too (just not as >> often)...I >> have tried to put a "wait for 100 milli with messages before and after the >> mobilePickPhoto "camera" command but it has not affected the crashes >> (can't >> *really* put a wait for 100... immediately after since if I do I lose "the >> result" from mobilePickPhoto, so I do a 'put the result into tresult' and >> then do my wait....but no matter.....doesn't make things better or worse). >> >> Is there anyone out there that has had more than a cursory use of >> mobilePickPhoto "camera" on android than can either deny or confirm what I >> am seeing? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Paul K. >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 22 08:15:40 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 08:15:40 -0400 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: <5215C7CD.9040903@economy-x-talk.com> References: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> <5215C7CD.9040903@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Mark W. - I'm pretty sure that 4D can capture stderr. Are you saying that when LC sends output to stderr I won't be able to capture it? Mark S. - yeah, I was thinking of that. Originally I was going to move the window offscreen, but -ui is probably better. Thanks guys! More questions to come, I'm sure. I can't believe I'm just discovering this. All the things I could do with it... On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 4:11 AM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > In that case, sockets are indeed not the right approach. It should be > possible to use a standalone as a command line utility, with parameters as > I explained before. > > Hiding the LiveCode interface would seem more elegant to me. Maybe you can > still use -u to hide the user interface altogether. You could also set the > visible of your stacks to false. > > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/**xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour > spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" > http://qery.us/3fi > > Fill out this survey please > http://livecodebeginner.**economy-x-talk.com/survey/ > > On 8/22/2013 03:57, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> And Mark S., sorry, I wasn't ignoring you, I just didn't see your message. >> I have a system that's written in 4D that needs some functionality added >> to >> it. The code to do that is already written in LC. Converting it would >> work, but why bother, when I can just create a standalone in LC that I >> call >> from 4D? >> >> >> > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From admin at FlexibleLearning.com Thu Aug 22 08:16:29 2013 From: admin at FlexibleLearning.com (FlexibleLearning.com) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 13:16:29 +0100 Subject: https problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am using the IDE and getting a certificate error on Mac OS with a get url "https://etc". Doesn't happen on Windows, although both the same version 5.5. Any insights? Hugh Senior FLCo From liste.revo at medard.on-rev.com Thu Aug 22 09:01:34 2013 From: liste.revo at medard.on-rev.com (Medard) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 15:01:34 +0200 Subject: An oblivion! Message-ID: <1l80eyc.1b3jatu1i2dcmoM%liste.revo@medard.on-rev.com> Obviously, they forgot ONE language ;-) http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career-management/best-programming-lang uages-to-learn-on-your-own-time/ From klaus at major-k.de Thu Aug 22 09:08:03 2013 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 15:08:03 +0200 Subject: Projekt Browser: The control you selected no longer exists Message-ID: <68C34FDD-A92E-4217-BD5E-01C4A481D388@major-k.de> Hi friends, just saw a new entry in the forum, and this is what I also experience! In 6.1.1 (rc2) there are problems in the Project Brwoser, did not find a reciope, it just happens. You click an object in the PB and get the dialog: The control you selected no longer exists Of course these objects DO EXIST in fact, this is very annoying. Restarting LC helps (until next time) Anyone else seen this? Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From jacques.hausser at unil.ch Thu Aug 22 09:25:33 2013 From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 15:25:33 +0200 Subject: Projekt Browser: The control you selected no longer exists In-Reply-To: <68C34FDD-A92E-4217-BD5E-01C4A481D388@major-k.de> References: <68C34FDD-A92E-4217-BD5E-01C4A481D388@major-k.de> Message-ID: Le 22 ao?t 2013 ? 15:08, Klaus major-k a ?crit : > Hi friends, > > just saw a new entry in the forum, and this is what I also experience! > In 6.1.1 (rc2) there are problems in the Project Brwoser, did not find a reciope, > it just happens. > > You click an object in the PB and get the dialog: > The control you selected no longer exists > > Of course these objects DO EXIST in fact, this is very annoying. > Restarting LC helps (until next time) > > Anyone else seen this? > > > Best > > Klaus Oh yes, Klaus - I see that every time I click an object on a (sub)stack which is not on screen? This Project Browser is at first view very appealing, but till yet it is awkward to use: if it is open when you try to move a very populated group with the arrows, for instance, the move is at best sluggish (a definitively rheumatismal slug, indeed). When you try to use it to change the layering of groups and objects, it confuses the targets and move not the selected object, but the following one? and so on, and so on. So, a very good idea, but needs some serious reworking. Jacques From klaus at major-k.de Thu Aug 22 09:29:21 2013 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 15:29:21 +0200 Subject: Projekt Browser: The control you selected no longer exists In-Reply-To: References: <68C34FDD-A92E-4217-BD5E-01C4A481D388@major-k.de> Message-ID: <8E1EB657-8E9D-4759-9EAC-01FFB647EFC3@major-k.de> Hi Jaques, Am 22.08.2013 um 15:25 schrieb Jacques Hausser : > Le 22 ao?t 2013 ? 15:08, Klaus major-k a ?crit : > >> Hi friends, >> >> just saw a new entry in the forum, and this is what I also experience! >> In 6.1.1 (rc2) there are problems in the Project Brwoser, did not find a reciope, >> it just happens. >> >> You click an object in the PB and get the dialog: >> The control you selected no longer exists >> >> Of course these objects DO EXIST in fact, this is very annoying. >> Restarting LC helps (until next time) >> >> Anyone else seen this? >> >> >> Best >> >> Klaus > > Oh yes, Klaus - I see that every time I click an object on a (sub)stack which is not on screen? > > This Project Browser is at first view very appealing, but till yet it is awkward to use: if it is open when you try to move a very populated group with the arrows, for instance, the move is at best sluggish (a definitively rheumatismal slug, indeed). When you try to use it to change the layering of groups and objects, it confuses the targets and move not the selected object, but the following one? and so on, and so on. > > So, a very good idea, but needs some serious reworking. OK, thanks, I send a but report to RunRev! > Jacques Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From th.douez at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 10:40:32 2013 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:40:32 +0200 Subject: https problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Hugh, Probably this thread will give you some direction... http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Post-command-help-td4666572.html#a4666761 HTH, Thierry 2013/8/22 FlexibleLearning.com > I am using the IDE and getting a certificate error on Mac OS with a get url > "https://etc". Doesn't happen on Windows, although both the same version > 5.5. > > Any insights? > > Hugh Senior > FLCo > ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com Maker of sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 22 11:51:27 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 08:51:27 -0700 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <52121D67.8000901@fourthworld.com> <5215C7CD.9040903@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <48569954595.20130822085127@ahsoftware.net> Mike- Thursday, August 22, 2013, 5:15:40 AM, you wrote: > Mark W. - I'm pretty sure that 4D can capture stderr. Are you saying that > when LC sends output to stderr I won't be able to capture it? No, not saying that at all, sorry. Just that it *also* can go to the console. Capturing the stderr output shouldn't be a problem. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From userev at canelasoftware.com Thu Aug 22 12:37:26 2013 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 09:37:26 -0700 Subject: ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50108EFB-D17D-4C38-856F-BD88D13B0FB4@canelasoftware.com> On Aug 21, 2013, at 7:19 PM, Michael Gruenthal wrote: > Doesn't that violate the terms of your agreement with Apple? I view Apple like the tide in the ocean. It is always moving. There are a number of apps that hook into services that exist outside of the Apple financial ecosystem. This is our attempt to play in that arena. There may be a day when Apple changes its mind and asks us to modify our model. Until then we will see how this goes. The app is designed to sell more desktop services. This is where the profit is. It is not the other way around. "Here?s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They?re not fond of rules?" Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com From alain.vezina at logilangue.com Thu Aug 22 13:04:13 2013 From: alain.vezina at logilangue.com (Alain Vezina) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 13:04:13 -0400 Subject: android and LC 6.1 Message-ID: I developed several apps for iOS and I plane to bring some of those to Android. Before I start, I am seeking for two answers : 1. is LiveCode 6.1 compatible with Android 4.3 ? 2. will an app compiled with LiveCode 6.1 work on a device running Android higher than 3.1 ? Alain V?zina, directeur Logilangue 514-596-1385 alain.vezina at logilangue.com http://www.logilangue.com From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 22 13:15:43 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:15:43 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: <52141778.3080200@fourthworld.com> References: <52141778.3080200@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: How do you find this stuff! Seems there's a whole genre of similar Youtube clips. Pete lcSQL Software On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Haworth wrote: > > Mark, >> >> You said: >> >> Best thing to do is fork the repository, git clone it locally, make >> >>> your changes, push them, and submit a pull request. >>> >>> >> I heard : >> >> "Best thing to do is jwehf KJHFKHFTYL *%*%$$$ kjdkhdkjhd pull request" >> >> :-) >> > > Cut to Godwin's Law: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=CDeG4S-mJts > > :) > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Aug 22 13:21:20 2013 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 18:21:20 +0100 Subject: Post command help In-Reply-To: References: <51C86426.6000706@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <52164890.9080409@cogapp.com> On 24/06/2013 16:28, Thierry Douez wrote: > 2013/6/24 J. Landman Gay >> It sounds like the issue only occurs on OS X 10.6, right? Mac 10.7+ and >> Windows machines are not affected? Do you know? > > > ?Umm, it's not working on Mac 10.7.5 right now on my box. > And it's not working on Mac 10.8.4 on mine. Meanwhile the entire item that Thierry quoted has vanished from the release notes. And libUrlSetSSLVerification, mentioned (I think) in Thierry's response from RunRev support, does not appear in any documentation that I can find. I've added a bug report to the QCC (#11121) to reflect the fact that this remains a bug in, apparently, every version of OS X from 10.6 on. Ben From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 22 13:21:57 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:21:57 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: <171441294013.20130820210706@ahsoftware.net> References: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> <68420258091.20130820151630@ahsoftware.net> <171441294013.20130820210706@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: I did indeed and thanks for the link. Even though I didn't understand your instructions, I was able to download the dictionary editor stack and look forward to checking out how the dictionary works and its structure. Pete lcSQL Software On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Pete- > > Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 6:18:48 PM, you wrote: > > > I heard : > > > "Best thing to do is jwehf KJHFKHFTYL *%*%$$$ kjdkhdkjhd pull request" > > Well, hey... you asked... > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 22 13:38:15 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:38:15 -0700 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: <111526813904.20130821205226@ahsoftware.net> References: <111526813904.20130821205226@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <52164C87.7050705@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Mike- > > Wednesday, August 21, 2013, 7:56:25 PM, you wrote: > >> I'm doing this on Windoze > > In that case, stderr will go directly to the console, while stdout > needs to be caught with redirection. Mark, is this inconsistency between the Linux and Win builds a bug in LC or a bug in Windows? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 22 13:42:15 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:42:15 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52164D77.8040002@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > How do you find this stuff! Seems there's a whole genre of similar Youtube > clips. Jeanne DeVoto turned me on to those. Every now and then someone makes another, and the "git" one popped up on my G+ feed recently. Internet traffic is divided in four equal parts: spam, "Hitler find out about..." video, cat pictures, and everything else. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> Peter Haworth wrote: >> >> Mark, >>> >>> You said: >>> >>> Best thing to do is fork the repository, git clone it locally, make >>> >>>> your changes, push them, and submit a pull request. >>>> >>>> >>> I heard : >>> >>> "Best thing to do is jwehf KJHFKHFTYL *%*%$$$ kjdkhdkjhd pull request" >>> >>> :-) >>> >> >> Cut to Godwin's Law: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=CDeG4S-mJts >> >> :) >> From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 22 13:45:34 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:45:34 -0700 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52164E3E.2030604@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > Richard, > $# causes the script editor to mark the rest of the line as a comment. $# > still works? The token works well, so that would be a bug - reported: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 22 13:53:32 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 13:53:32 -0400 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: <52164E3E.2030604@fourthworld.com> References: <52164E3E.2030604@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: See my reply on the bug report. On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > >> Richard, >> $# causes the script editor to mark the rest of the line as a comment. $# >> still works? >> > > The token works well, so that would be a bug - reported: > > > > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 22 14:49:41 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 13:49:41 -0500 Subject: Post command help In-Reply-To: <52164890.9080409@cogapp.com> References: <51C86426.6000706@hyperactivesw.com> <52164890.9080409@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <52165D45.9070408@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/22/13 12:21 PM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > On 24/06/2013 16:28, Thierry Douez wrote: >> 2013/6/24 J. Landman Gay >>> It sounds like the issue only occurs on OS X 10.6, right? Mac 10.7+ and >>> Windows machines are not affected? Do you know? >> >> >> ?Umm, it's not working on Mac 10.7.5 right now on my box. >> > > And it's not working on Mac 10.8.4 on mine. > > Meanwhile the entire item that Thierry quoted has vanished from the > release notes. > > And libUrlSetSSLVerification, mentioned (I think) in Thierry's response > from RunRev support, does not appear in any documentation that I can find. > > I've added a bug report to the QCC (#11121) to reflect the fact that > this remains a bug in, apparently, every version of OS X from 10.6 on. Just to add another data point, my client is running 10.8.x and I'm running 10.7.5 and https is working okay for both of us. So it doesn't seem to be universal. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 22 15:04:18 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 14:04:18 -0500 Subject: Post command help In-Reply-To: <52165D45.9070408@hyperactivesw.com> References: <51C86426.6000706@hyperactivesw.com> <52164890.9080409@cogapp.com> <52165D45.9070408@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <521660B2.2070006@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/22/13 12:21 PM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > > And libUrlSetSSLVerification, mentioned (I think) in Thierry's response > from RunRev support, does not appear in any documentation that I can find. I just found it in the SSLCertificates entry in the dictionary. The info should probably also be cross-referenced in the (missing) libURLSetSSLVerification entry when/if it gets added. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From zryip.theslug at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 15:12:11 2013 From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 21:12:11 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Library for scripting MS Excel with LC - Beta Testers needed Message-ID: Dear LiveCode Community, Our library for scripting MS Excel with LiveCode comes in open beta! The library is compatible with MS Excel for Windows and Macintosh. If you have interest and time in testing this library, please drop us an email. In the email specify: - your platform - your MS Excel version Any testers will receive the open beta package. This package is including: 1. The Excel_Lib library stack which contains about 150 commands and functions for scripting Excel. The commands are grouped in categories: - Workbooks - Sheets - Ranges - Shapes - Charts - etc 2. A full documentation of all the commands and functions available. For helping in the learning curve, the documentation includes a lab for directly experiment commands such as: - add a shape to a workbook - retrieving data from a workbook - saving data from a field or a datagrid in a workbook - creating a chart - formatting and presenting data - etc... Some screen pictures are available on our website home page: www.aslugontheroad.com Best Regards, -- Zryip TheSlug http://www.aslugontheroad.com From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 15:44:12 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 12:44:12 -0700 Subject: Finding the calling code/object/script? Message-ID: Is there a way to work back up a message to see where a command originated? I am trying to trap a message that used to be valid in my code, that isn't. Earlier versions allowed this message to go straight to a field. So a "send someCommand to fld abc" is no longer valid; it must now come in the context of "someCommand arguments" in the code. Is there a way inside of the handler of someCommand to find out whow it was invoked? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 22 16:32:37 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 22:32:37 +0200 Subject: Finding the calling code/object/script? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52167565.7060307@economy-x-talk.com> Richard, The executionContexts contains a list of all handlers and objects that called one of the handlers in the current chain. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/22/2013 21:44, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > Is there a way to work back up a message to see where a command originated? > > I am trying to trap a message that used to be valid in my code, that > isn't. Earlier versions allowed this message to go straight to a > field. > > So a "send someCommand to fld abc" is no longer valid; it must now > come in the context of "someCommand arguments" in the code. > > Is there a way inside of the handler of someCommand to find out whow > it was invoked? > From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Aug 22 16:38:10 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 13:38:10 -0700 Subject: Finding the calling code/object/script? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You might try the executionContexts property (may still be undocumented). Use this after executing something: put the executionContexts Shows the objects that handled messages . Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/22/13 12:44 PM, "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: >Is there a way to work back up a message to see where a command >originated? > >I am trying to trap a message that used to be valid in my code, that >isn't. Earlier versions allowed this message to go straight to a >field. > >So a "send someCommand to fld abc" is no longer valid; it must now >come in the context of "someCommand arguments" in the code. > >Is there a way inside of the handler of someCommand to find out whow >it was invoked? > >-- >Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. >(702) 508-8462 > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Thu Aug 22 16:56:46 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Finding the calling code/object/script? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D06D913F16928F-19B0-6C39A@webmail-m279.sysops.aol.com> What Mark and Scott said. Just a comment about documentation. The dictionary says clearly, though it was not findable by me until I knew what property to look for: A common use of the executionContexts is to obtain the name of the object and handler that called the current handler, this information is available as: line -2 of the executionContexts. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Scott Rossi To: LiveCode Mail List Sent: Thu, Aug 22, 2013 4:38 pm Subject: Re: Finding the calling code/object/script? You might try the executionContexts property (may still be undocumented). Use this after executing something: put the executionContexts Shows the objects that handled messages . Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/22/13 12:44 PM, "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: >Is there a way to work back up a message to see where a command >originated? > >I am trying to trap a message that used to be valid in my code, that >isn't. Earlier versions allowed this message to go straight to a >field. > >So a "send someCommand to fld abc" is no longer valid; it must now >come in the context of "someCommand arguments" in the code. > >Is there a way inside of the handler of someCommand to find out whow >it was invoked? > >-- >Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. >(702) 508-8462 > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 16:57:37 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 13:57:37 -0700 Subject: Finding the calling code/object/script? In-Reply-To: <52167565.7060307@economy-x-talk.com> References: <52167565.7060307@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > > The executionContexts contains a list of all handlers and objects that > called one of the handlers in the current chain. That is just perfect! word 1 of line 1 of the executionContexts is "field" when this happens! Thank you so much. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 22 17:26:18 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 14:26:18 -0700 Subject: Finding the calling code/object/script? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Check out the executionContexts - it will give you a trace back of the calling hierarchy. Pete lcSQL Software On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > Is there a way to work back up a message to see where a command originated? > > I am trying to trap a message that used to be valid in my code, that > isn't. Earlier versions allowed this message to go straight to a > field. > > So a "send someCommand to fld abc" is no longer valid; it must now > come in the context of "someCommand arguments" in the code. > > Is there a way inside of the handler of someCommand to find out whow > it was invoked? > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 22 17:33:44 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 14:33:44 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: References: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> <68420258091.20130820151630@ahsoftware.net> <171441294013.20130820210706@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <76590492365.20130822143344@ahsoftware.net> Pete- Thursday, August 22, 2013, 10:21:57 AM, you wrote: > I did indeed and thanks for the link. Even though I didn't understand your > instructions, I was able to download the dictionary editor stack and look > forward to checking out how the dictionary works and its structure. Yeah, good luck with that. Bjornke understands that stuff better than most folks, and he can probably chime in here with a rant of his own. For my part, all I wanted to do was edit/create some doc files for the engine changes I had made, and I got Mark Waddingham to post the editor the team uses because a) I wasn't going to edit the xml by hand, b) I didn't have a way of viewing the results of editing the xml, and c) I don't know the xml format. The format isn't documented anywhere, there are xml tags like that don't seem to be editable, but somehow they're in there and I don't know what they do. The xml format itself seems pretty bad, but it's tightly coupled to the doc files that get generated from it, so it's not likely to change. Meanwhile Bjornke has come up with a way to convert the doc files into a SQLite database, and that makes it faster, more maintainable, easier to use, and more flexible. Unfortunately his converter doesn't work on linux, but the resulting database is cross-platform. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 22 17:35:02 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 14:35:02 -0700 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: <52164C87.7050705@fourthworld.com> References: <111526813904.20130821205226@ahsoftware.net> <52164C87.7050705@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <16590569597.20130822143502@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Thursday, August 22, 2013, 10:38:15 AM, you wrote: > Mark, is this inconsistency between the Linux and Win builds a bug in LC > or a bug in Windows? Microsoft knows what's best for you better than you do. Who told you you could question authority? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 22 17:55:42 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:55:42 -0500 Subject: Finding the calling code/object/script? In-Reply-To: References: <52167565.7060307@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <521688DE.3080909@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/22/13 3:57 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Mark Schonewille > wrote: >> >> The executionContexts contains a list of all handlers and objects that >> called one of the handlers in the current chain. > > That is just perfect! > > word 1 of line 1 of the executionContexts is "field" > > when this happens! > > Thank you so much. > If this is just for debugging, you don't need to script it. Set a breakpoint, and the executionContexts appear in a popdown button at the top of the script editor. You can use that to backtrack through the script to see what called what. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 22 19:15:29 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:15:29 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: <76590492365.20130822143344@ahsoftware.net> References: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> <68420258091.20130820151630@ahsoftware.net> <171441294013.20130820210706@ahsoftware.net> <76590492365.20130822143344@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Meanwhile Bjornke has come up with a way to convert the doc files into > a SQLite database, and that makes it faster, more maintainable, easier > to use, and more flexible. Unfortunately his converter doesn't work on > linux, but the resulting database is cross-platform. > Yes, I use Docu 2 almost exclusively in place of the built in dictionary and have looked at Bjornke's code that builds the database. The dictionary format looks to be, shall we say, "interesting". Out of interest why doesn't the convertor work on Linux? Pete lcSQL Software From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 22 19:36:02 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:36:02 -0700 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: References: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> <68420258091.20130820151630@ahsoftware.net> <171441294013.20130820210706@ahsoftware.net> <76590492365.20130822143344@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <67597829479.20130822163602@ahsoftware.net> Pete- Thursday, August 22, 2013, 4:15:29 PM, you wrote: > Yes, I use Docu 2 almost exclusively in place of the built in dictionary > and have looked at Bjornke's code that builds the database. The dictionary > format looks to be, shall we say, "interesting". ROTFL > Out of interest why doesn't the convertor work on Linux? Off the top of my head I forget, but I think I remember something about assumptions about where files will end up. And probably permissions problems as well. I started looking at changing the code and then realized it was easier to be lazy and just do the conversion on OSX. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 21:13:12 2013 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:13:12 +0800 Subject: OT - Re: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: <5215C49F.4060206@tweedly.net> References: <52132B09.6040708@pair.com> <521390A6.7040903@fourthworld.com> <5215501D.9010803@tweedly.net> <5215C49F.4060206@tweedly.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > I'd see 'flash suppression' (if it could be done properly) as a similar > attempt to allow more people to watch a particular clip. > Where I live they've used 'flash suppression' for longer than I can remember. My kids have never seen or ever likely to see a stray penis across a football pitch. The TV stations here seem to have flash suppression down to a fine art;-) But I do seem to remember a SuperBowl not long back that got all controversial because of a flash that wasn't suppressed, so maybe in the States they need to upgrade their software. From th.douez at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 22:17:58 2013 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 04:17:58 +0200 Subject: Post command help In-Reply-To: <52165D45.9070408@hyperactivesw.com> References: <51C86426.6000706@hyperactivesw.com> <52164890.9080409@cogapp.com> <52165D45.9070408@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi Jacque, It sounds like the issue only occurs on OS X 10.6, right? Mac 10.7+ and >>>> Windows machines are not affected? Do you know? >>>> >>> >>> >>> ?Umm, it's not working on Mac 10.7.5 right now on my box. >>> >> >> And it's not working on Mac 10.8.4 on mine. >> >> Meanwhile the entire item that Thierry quoted has vanished from the >> release notes. >> >> And libUrlSetSSLVerification, mentioned (I think) in Thierry's response >> from RunRev support, does not appear in any documentation that I can find. >> >> I've added a bug report to the QCC (#11121) to reflect the fact that >> this remains a bug in, apparently, every version of OS X from 10.6 on. >> > > Just to add another data point, my client is running 10.8.x and I'm > running 10.7.5 and https is working okay for both of us. So it doesn't seem > to be universal. > ?For the record, it has been working for a while from time to time (same box, same code on LC and server), and suddenly stops!? ?If I remember well, you were setting ? libUrlSetSSLVerification to false ?? ?Still true?? ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com Maker of sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 23 00:42:41 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 23:42:41 -0500 Subject: Post command help In-Reply-To: References: <51C86426.6000706@hyperactivesw.com> <52164890.9080409@cogapp.com> <52165D45.9070408@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <501a3011-5ae3-45a9-9f6d-7018ae9683d3@email.android.com> Thierry Douez wrote: > >?If I remember well, you were setting ? >libUrlSetSSLVerification to false >?? > > >?Still true?? Actually I haven't set it to true yet, but after seeing the problem come up twice now I'm thinking maybe I should do the https check that Neil suggested when the app starts up , and if it fails I'll turn off verification. But so far we haven't had any problems. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 23 00:50:38 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 23:50:38 -0500 Subject: Post command help In-Reply-To: <501a3011-5ae3-45a9-9f6d-7018ae9683d3@email.android.com> References: <51C86426.6000706@hyperactivesw.com> <52164890.9080409@cogapp.com> <52165D45.9070408@hyperactivesw.com> <501a3011-5ae3-45a9-9f6d-7018ae9683d3@email.android.com> Message-ID: <5216EA1E.1090702@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/22/13 11:42 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > Thierry Douez wrote: > >> >> ?If I remember well, you were setting ? libUrlSetSSLVerification to >> false ?? >> >> >> ?Still true?? > > Actually I haven't set it to true yet, Er, I mean, haven't set it to false yet. So far I haven't set libURLSSLVerification at all yet. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From admin at FlexibleLearning.com Fri Aug 23 02:59:44 2013 From: admin at FlexibleLearning.com (FlexibleLearning.com) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 07:59:44 +0100 Subject: Post command help (was: https problem) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just tried "put the libURLSetSSLVerification" on Windows and got a compile error. Without a dictionary entry, however, I am only guessing that it would return True/False. Meanwhile, access to data supplied by an https url seems unavailable when using Mac OS X. Bugger. Hugh Senior FLCo On 8/22/13 12:21 PM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > > And libUrlSetSSLVerification, mentioned (I think) in Thierry's response > from RunRev support, does not appear in any documentation that I can find. I just found it in the SSLCertificates entry in the dictionary. The info should probably also be cross-referenced in the (missing) libURLSetSSLVerification entry when/if it gets added. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From heather at runrev.com Fri Aug 23 03:21:21 2013 From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Laine) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 08:21:21 +0100 Subject: ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! In-Reply-To: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: Mark, that's great. Looks as shiny as I'd expect something you produced to look :). I wonder if you would consider a newsletter article about the making of this app? It would be an interesting study of the pro's and con's of this approach, why you did it like this and of course any of the how you care to share? Let me know, editor at runrev.com. And if anyone else has exciting apps, stories, tips, articles up their sleeves, that address again is editor at runrev.com. Cheers! Heather On 21 Aug 2013, at 22:17, Mark Talluto wrote: > Fellow developers. I am happy to announce that we got our first iPad app approved for the iTunes store. It took 5 days to get through. > > Details: > The app is free. It is a companion app to a desktop service/product we provide for the vision testing market. There is an in-app component to make the app do more, but there is a twist. We are billing through the desktop app to make the mobile app get extended features. The iPad app communicates with the desktop app to know if the purchase as been made. You can probably guess what that means. > > We used Monte's socket external for iOS to make the communication between the iPad and the desktop work. We specifically use UDP for all communication. It is extremely fast and reliable. We could not be happier with Monte's work on that external. > > This app may not be very popular with the kids, but our market is very excited about it. You can see it from the following link: > https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/acuity-system-remote/id689381187?mt=8 > > If you are curious about the interoperability between iPad and desktops, feel free to download the desktop app from: try2020.com. > My mind is racing with all the possibilities. > > > Best regards, > > Mark Talluto > canelasoftware.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Heather Laine Customer Services Manager http://www.livecode.com/ From dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk Fri Aug 23 06:14:55 2013 From: dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 11:14:55 +0100 Subject: Post command help (was: https problem) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7B0F216E-5263-4264-A542-42A6AB3AF5FE@lacscentre.co.uk> On 23 Aug 2013, at 07:59, FlexibleLearning.com wrote: > I just tried "put the libURLSetSSLVerification" on Windows and got a compile > error. > > Without a dictionary entry, however, I am only guessing that it would return > True/False. Hugh, libURLSetSSLVerification is a message handler (command), not a function. It sets a local script variable in libUrl. You can view the libUrl script like this: edit script of button "revLibUrl" of stack "revLibrary" > Meanwhile, access to data supplied by an https url seems unavailable when > using Mac OS X. I tried the following (OSX 10.8.4, LC 6.1.1. rc2, no use of libURLSetSSLVerification) put url "https://www.google.com" It put the page content. According to the docs, since version 4.5, the engine automatically uses the OS root certificates on Mac and Windows. In theory, there should be no reason to use libURLSetSSLVerification, and using it as a workaround potentially creates security risks. That might be one reason for leaving it out of the docs. However, I'm a little out of touch with these issues these days. I know that https connections through a proxy were not supported in the past. I'm assuming that is still the case. Cheers Dave Cragg From klaus at major-k.de Fri Aug 23 08:24:22 2013 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 14:24:22 +0200 Subject: Help with nested (?) behaviors Message-ID: Hi friends, I must confess that I still have no idea about the practical use of nested behaviors, but maybe they will fit in my current scenario? 1. I have a couple of groups and set their behavior to button A. 2. Now I want to switch their behaviors under certain conditons No big deal with some lines of script, but maybe this is possible without setting the new behaviors for ALL groups with nested behaviors? 3. I set the behvior of button A ( see above) to button B 4. the groups are still "connected" to button A 5. Now I only switch the behavior of button B and all groups "connected" to button A have a new behavior at once. Know what I mean? Is my presumption correct? Thanks a lot in advance! P.S. I would be nice if there were some practical examples for new and maybe a tad "esoteric" (= not intuitive) features ;-) Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From pmbrig at gmail.com Fri Aug 23 09:10:55 2013 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:10:55 -0400 Subject: Finding the calling code/object/script? In-Reply-To: <521688DE.3080909@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52167565.7060307@economy-x-talk.com> <521688DE.3080909@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I was playing around with the executionContexts and came up with a more readable format for it, for anyone who's interested. The executionContexts returns something like: button id 1053 of group id 1040 of card id 1002 of stack "/Users/pmbrig/Documents/LiveCode/pmbLib.rev",mouseup,114 group id 1040 of card id 1002 of stack "/Users/pmbrig/Documents/LiveCode/pmbLib.rev",doTest,7 altExecutionContexts returns something like: button "test" of bkgnd "handlerGp" of stack "pmbLib",mouseup,114 bkgnd "handlerGp" of stack "pmbLib",doTest,7 Handlers below. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig --------- function altExecutionContexts -- returns the executioncontexts, in a more readable form -- requires getprop robustName, q() put the executioncontexts into tExecutionContexts repeat for each line c in tExecutionContexts put item 1 of c into tObj put the robustName of tObj & comma & item 2 to -1 of c into tLine put tLine & cr after tList end repeat return line 1 to -2 of tList -- last line is the owner of this script, so ignore it end altExecutionContexts getProp robustName ---- a virtual property, read only ---- -- getting the long name of a control can result in different values depending on -- (a) where the stack is stored on the user's disk and -- (b) which card is the currentcard when the property is fetched -- the robustName is consistent no matter what card is current -- and no matter which folder the user has stored the stack in; -- format: button "copyText" of bkgnd "fieldGp" of stack "substack1" -- of stack "myMainStack" -- the robustName can be used as a complete object reference, -- just like the long name -- requires q() put the long name of the target into tLongName replace " stack " with cr in tLongName put line -1 of tLongName into mainStackFileName if word 1 of mainStackFileName <> "stack" then put "stack " before mainStackFileName end if put the short name of mainStackFileName into mainStackName if tLongName begins with "stack" then put q(mainStackName) into word 2 of tLongName return tLongName end if put q(mainStackName) into line -1 of tLongName replace cr with " stack " in tLongName replace " of " with cr in tLongName put lineoffset(cr & "card ", cr & tLongName) into cdLineNbr if cdLineNbr > 1 then delete line cdLineNbr of tLongName repeat with c = 1 to the number of lines of tLongName put line c to -1 of tLongName into ctrlName replace cr with " of " in ctrlName put the name of ctrlName into line c of tLongName end repeat replace cr with " of " in tLongName replace "group" with "bkgnd" in tLongName -- in case the group is not placed on the currentcard return tLongName end robustName function q str -- quote return quote & str & quote end q On Aug 22, 2013, at 5:55 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/22/13 3:57 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: >> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Mark Schonewille >> wrote: >>> >>> The executionContexts contains a list of all handlers and objects that >>> called one of the handlers in the current chain. >> >> That is just perfect! >> >> word 1 of line 1 of the executionContexts is "field" >> >> when this happens! >> >> Thank you so much. >> > > If this is just for debugging, you don't need to script it. Set a breakpoint, and the executionContexts appear in a popdown button at the top of the script editor. You can use that to backtrack through the script to see what called what. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Aug 23 09:51:19 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 06:51:19 -0700 Subject: Finding the calling code/object/script? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oddly, google flagged Scott's message as spam. I only found it when looking after Craig referred to it . . . On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > You might try the executionContexts property (may still be undocumented). > > Use this after executing something: put the executionContexts > > Shows the objects that handled messages > . > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/22/13 12:44 PM, "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: > >>Is there a way to work back up a message to see where a command >>originated? >> >>I am trying to trap a message that used to be valid in my code, that >>isn't. Earlier versions allowed this message to go straight to a >>field. >> >>So a "send someCommand to fld abc" is no longer valid; it must now >>come in the context of "someCommand arguments" in the code. >> >>Is there a way inside of the handler of someCommand to find out whow >>it was invoked? >> >>-- >>Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. >>(702) 508-8462 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>use-livecode mailing list >>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Aug 23 09:53:42 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 06:53:42 -0700 Subject: Finding the calling code/object/script? In-Reply-To: <521688DE.3080909@hyperactivesw.com> References: <52167565.7060307@economy-x-talk.com> <521688DE.3080909@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:55 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > If this is just for debugging, you don't need to script it. Set a > breakpoint, and the executionContexts appear in a popdown button at the top > of the script editor. You can use that to backtrack through the script to > see what called what. It's not quite debugging; it's waiting to see if any of these calls are left in obscure places in the code :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Aug 23 10:19:51 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 07:19:51 -0700 Subject: Control From Outside In-Reply-To: References: <520EB65E.8070109@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > On Windows and Linux, you can start a standalone from the command line with parameteres. The parameters can be found in $0, $1 etc. You can do the same on Mac OS X, but you will have probems with the GUI. Since I don't know remember I created it, I'm attaching this mac command file. It just executes the command, /Applications/Firefox.app/Contents/MacOS/firefox-bin -no-about-splash -dont-force-window-stacking -geometry +850+10 -no-remote -P & This is usually an alias for me; someone asked if the same thing could be done with an icon. (it's just to launch an extra simultaneous firefox; I need this a lot, as my regular browser is locked down pretty hard . . .) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Aug 23 11:54:01 2013 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 08:54:01 -0700 Subject: Help with nested (?) behaviors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Klaus: One reason to use a chained behavior is when you want to make some actions, functions, or properties common to multiple object behaviors. This new arrangement is ideal for custom controls. For example, say you created a custom button, a custom field, and a custom scrollbar that all share a common appearance: a "specialBorder" property that draws a blue outline around each control. Now, of course each of these controls behaves quite differently from the others -- they perform different functions, so each one uses its own behavior script. But, in terms of appearance, they all share the "specialBorder" property. So instead of placing a specialBorder property setting in each object's behavior, you could place the specialBorder setting in ONE parent behavior for ALL object behaviors. The benefit of this arrangement is that if you later want to change the specialBorder settings for all objects from blue to red, you only need to change it one place: the parent behavior. With the old setup, the specialBorder property would need to live in each object's behavior, and you would need to update that property separately for each control. Kind of a pain. The additional benefit of chained behaviors is the message flow is "natural" -- mouse events automatically flow from one object to the next without you needing to manually call some handler or retrieve code from another object. In my own development, I place some custom geometry functions in parent behaviors that are available to all my custom control behaviors, so if (when) the time comes to update the functions, I only need to change code in one place. And then all my custom controls will be automatically updated at once. The above is quite a simple example, but hope it helps. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/23/13 5:24 AM, "Klaus major-k" wrote: >Hi friends, > >I must confess that I still have no idea about the practical use of >nested behaviors, but maybe they will fit in my current scenario? > >1. I have a couple of groups and set their behavior to button A. > >2. Now I want to switch their behaviors under certain conditons > >No big deal with some lines of script, but maybe this is possible >without setting the new behaviors for ALL groups with nested behaviors? > >3. I set the behvior of button A ( see above) to button B > >4. the groups are still "connected" to button A > >5. Now I only switch the behavior of button B and all groups >"connected" to button A have a new behavior at once. > >Know what I mean? Is my presumption correct? > >Thanks a lot in advance! > > >P.S. >I would be nice if there were some practical examples for new and >maybe a tad "esoteric" (= not intuitive) features ;-) > > >Best > >Klaus >-- >Klaus Major >http://www.major-k.de >klaus at major-k.de > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Fri Aug 23 12:31:14 2013 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 18:31:14 +0200 Subject: Help with nested (?) behaviors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <668D2629-EF59-48F9-9EB0-D4BABD247F4C@major-k.de> Hi Scott, Am 23.08.2013 um 17:54 schrieb Scott Rossi : > Hi Klaus: > > One reason to use a chained behavior is when you want to make some > actions, functions, or properties common to multiple object behaviors. > This new arrangement is ideal for custom controls. For example, say you > created a custom button, a custom field, and a custom scrollbar that all > share a common appearance: a "specialBorder" property that draws a blue > outline around each control. > > Now, of course each of these controls behaves quite differently from the > others -- they perform different functions, so each one uses its own > behavior script. But, in terms of appearance, they all share the > "specialBorder" property. So instead of placing a specialBorder property > setting in each object's behavior, you could place the specialBorder > setting in ONE parent behavior for ALL object behaviors. > > > The benefit of this arrangement is that if you later want to change the > specialBorder settings for all objects from blue to red, you only need to > change it one place: the parent behavior. With the old setup, the > specialBorder property would need to live in each object's behavior, and > you would need to update that property separately for each control. Kind > of a pain. > > The additional benefit of chained behaviors is the message flow is > "natural" -- mouse events automatically flow from one object to the next > without you needing to manually call some handler or retrieve code from > another object. > > In my own development, I place some custom geometry functions in parent > behaviors that are available to all my custom control behaviors, so if > (when) the time comes to update the functions, I only need to change code > in one place. And then all my custom controls will be automatically > updated at once. > > The above is quite a simple example, but hope it helps. yep, it does, thanks a lot, and John Dixon was so kind to send me your VERY enlightening stack "chained.livecode". Great example! So the answer to my initial question is definitively yes! :-) > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > On 8/23/13 5:24 AM, "Klaus major-k" wrote: > >> Hi friends, >> >> I must confess that I still have no idea about the practical use of >> nested behaviors, but maybe they will fit in my current scenario? >> >> 1. I have a couple of groups and set their behavior to button A. >> 2. Now I want to switch their behaviors under certain conditons >> No big deal with some lines of script, but maybe this is possible >> without setting the new behaviors for ALL groups with nested behaviors? >> 3. I set the behvior of button A ( see above) to button B >> 4. the groups are still "connected" to button A >> 5. Now I only switch the behavior of button B and all groups >> "connected" to button A have a new behavior at once. >> Know what I mean? Is my presumption correct? Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 23 13:21:03 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 12:21:03 -0500 Subject: Post command help In-Reply-To: <7B0F216E-5263-4264-A542-42A6AB3AF5FE@lacscentre.co.uk> References: <7B0F216E-5263-4264-A542-42A6AB3AF5FE@lacscentre.co.uk> Message-ID: <521799FF.7050301@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/23/13 5:14 AM, Dave Cragg wrote: > I know that https connections through a proxy were not supported in > the past. I'm assuming that is still the case. Can anyone verify this? If it's true, I'm in trouble. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Aug 23 15:38:16 2013 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 15:38:16 -0400 Subject: Another Apple Got-yah was ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! In-Reply-To: References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <004d01cea038$508e9f60$f1abde20$@net> Another Apple Got-yah. Just got rejected for an update because I was testing another in-app product type that never made it into production. This IAP product was approved but subsequently rejected when I submitted a new binary. I deleted the test product and all went to green. Waiting for binary approval now. just a heads up....... Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Aug 23 15:51:21 2013 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 15:51:21 -0400 Subject: OAuth 1.1 In-Reply-To: References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <004e01cea03a$245a0630$6d0e1290$@net> I'm going to be using http rest application interface to Twitter. I am doing the OAuth stuff and I need a HMAC-SHA1 hashing algorithm. Is that the same as LC's sha1Digest function? If not is there something in the Mark Smith library that will do the trick? I'm still not getting the correct answer using sha1Digest after I base64Encode it. OR It could be the LC keyboard actuator. Thanks Been away banging out LC code for a new app. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From lists at mangomultimedia.com Fri Aug 23 17:23:58 2013 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 17:23:58 -0400 Subject: Post command help In-Reply-To: <521799FF.7050301@hyperactivesw.com> References: <7B0F216E-5263-4264-A542-42A6AB3AF5FE@lacscentre.co.uk> <521799FF.7050301@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:21 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/23/13 5:14 AM, Dave Cragg wrote: > >> I know that https connections through a proxy were not supported in >> the past. I'm assuming that is still the case. >> > > Can anyone verify this? If it's true, I'm in trouble. This is still true. You have to use the HTTP CONNECT method to get through a proxy server. libURL does not support this. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems www.clarify-it.com - www.screensteps.com From niconiko at gmail.com Fri Aug 23 17:56:03 2013 From: niconiko at gmail.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 06:56:03 +0900 Subject: Google's SPAM filters [was Re: Finding the calling code/object/script?] Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: Oddly, google flagged Scott's message as spam. I only found it when > looking after Craig referred to it . . . > Each few hours now for several weeks Google's SMAP filter has been mistakenly categorizing a handful of list messages at a time. Seems like 10 to 20 messages a day, with no recognizable pattern to them. Anyone else? -- Nicolas Cueto From userev at canelasoftware.com Fri Aug 23 18:08:15 2013 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 15:08:15 -0700 Subject: Another Apple Got-yah was ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! In-Reply-To: <004d01cea038$508e9f60$f1abde20$@net> References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> <004d01cea038$508e9f60$f1abde20$@net> Message-ID: <7A28F876-D833-47F4-9B18-D60F13B8994D@canelasoftware.com> On Aug 23, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > Another Apple Got-yah. > Just got rejected for an update because I was testing another in-app product > type that never made it into production. This IAP product was approved but > subsequently rejected when I submitted a new binary. I deleted the test > product and all went to green. Waiting for binary approval now. > > just a heads up...?. Sorry to hear that Ralph. I guess this has a lot to do with the individual that is doing the review for that run. We are working on our first update for our recently released iPad app. Who knows what will happen when we submit. We may get tossed out of the store altogether. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com From userev at canelasoftware.com Fri Aug 23 18:10:08 2013 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 15:10:08 -0700 Subject: ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! In-Reply-To: References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: On Aug 23, 2013, at 12:21 AM, Heather Laine wrote: > Mark, that's great. Looks as shiny as I'd expect something you produced to look :). I wonder if you would consider a newsletter article about the making of this app? It would be an interesting study of the pro's and con's of this approach, why you did it like this and of course any of the how you care to share? > > Let me know, editor at runrev.com. > > And if anyone else has exciting apps, stories, tips, articles up their sleeves, that address again is editor at runrev.com. > > Cheers! > > Heather Hi Heather. Thanks for the kind words. Eric is the author of the app. He is going to do the write up. A postmortem of sorts. Will submit it to you when it is done. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 23 18:19:14 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 17:19:14 -0500 Subject: Post command help In-Reply-To: References: <7B0F216E-5263-4264-A542-42A6AB3AF5FE@lacscentre.co.uk> <521799FF.7050301@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5217DFE2.7020302@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/23/13 4:23 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:21 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 8/23/13 5:14 AM, Dave Cragg wrote: >> >>> I know that https connections through a proxy were not supported in >>> the past. I'm assuming that is still the case. >>> >> >> Can anyone verify this? If it's true, I'm in trouble. > > > This is still true. You have to use the HTTP CONNECT method to get through > a proxy server. libURL does not support this. > Thanks. I guess. This is a very big problem for me. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 23 18:21:27 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 17:21:27 -0500 Subject: OAuth 1.1 In-Reply-To: <004e01cea03a$245a0630$6d0e1290$@net> References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> <004e01cea03a$245a0630$6d0e1290$@net> Message-ID: <5217E067.80802@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/23/13 2:51 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > I'm going to be using http rest application interface to Twitter. I am doing > the OAuth stuff and I need a HMAC-SHA1 hashing algorithm. Is that the same > as LC's sha1Digest function? If not is there something in the Mark Smith > library that will do the trick? I'm still not getting the correct answer > using sha1Digest after I base64Encode it. OR It could be the LC keyboard > actuator. I'm using an update of Mark Smith's library and it works. It's a slightly bug-fixed version that isn't on his site, but I've misplaced the link. I'm sure someone here has it; otherwise I can send you the file. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Fri Aug 23 21:05:50 2013 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 09:05:50 +0800 Subject: Google's SPAM filters [was Re: Finding the calling code/object/script?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I noticed this started at least 2 months ago, but I only get about 1-3 List posts a day end up in my Spam folder. I now check the Spam folder every day for List posts, I might get 2 or 3 a year that are really Spam, so currently all my Spam, isn't. Also can't figure out any pattern. in the last 11 hrs I had only 1 post in my Spam. On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 5:56 AM, Nicolas Cueto wrote: > On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > Oddly, google flagged Scott's message as spam. I only found it when > > looking after Craig referred to it . . . > > > > Each few hours now for several weeks Google's SMAP filter has been > mistakenly categorizing a handful of list messages at a time. Seems like 10 > to 20 messages a day, with no recognizable pattern to them. > > Anyone else? > > -- > Nicolas Cueto > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From endernafi at gmail.com Fri Aug 23 21:17:22 2013 From: endernafi at gmail.com (Ender Nafi =?UTF-8?Q?Elek=C3=A7io=C4=9Flu?=) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 18:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Google's SPAM filters [was Re: Finding the calling code/object/script?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1377307042415.9687836f@Nodemailer> vaf ?'t qh ( w ? Sent from Mailbox for iPhone On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 4:07 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > I noticed this started at least 2 months ago, but I only get about 1-3 List > posts a day end up in my Spam folder. I now check the Spam folder every day > for List posts, I might get 2 or 3 a year that are really Spam, so > currently all my Spam, isn't. > Also can't figure out any pattern. in the last 11 hrs I had only 1 post in > my Spam. > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 5:56 AM, Nicolas Cueto wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: >> >> Oddly, google flagged Scott's message as spam. I only found it when >> > looking after Craig referred to it . . . >> > >> >> Each few hours now for several weeks Google's SMAP filter has been >> mistakenly categorizing a handful of list messages at a time. Seems like 10 >> to 20 messages a day, with no recognizable pattern to them. >> >> Anyone else? >> >> -- >> Nicolas Cueto >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From capellan2000 at gmail.com Fri Aug 23 21:33:16 2013 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 18:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Help with nested (?) behaviors In-Reply-To: <668D2629-EF59-48F9-9EB0-D4BABD247F4C@major-k.de> References: <668D2629-EF59-48F9-9EB0-D4BABD247F4C@major-k.de> Message-ID: <1377307996295-4669070.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Klaus, Klaus major-k wrote > [snip] John Dixon was so kind to send me > your VERY enlightening stack "chained.livecode". > Great example! Where did Scott posted this stack? In the mail list or the forum? I would like to see it! :D Alejandro -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Help-with-nested-behaviors-tp4669052p4669070.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 02:32:46 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 09:32:46 +0300 Subject: Google's SPAM filters [was Re: Finding the calling code/object/script?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5218538E.8090506@gmail.com> On 08/24/2013 04:05 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > I noticed this started at least 2 months ago, but I only get about 1-3 List > posts a day end up in my Spam folder. I now check the Spam folder every day > for List posts, I might get 2 or 3 a year that are really Spam, so > currently all my Spam, isn't. > > Also can't figure out any pattern. in the last 11 hrs I had only 1 post in > my Spam. > > Yes; I am having this problem. It just put 4 messages with the same headers in 2 different places: 2 in the in-box and two in the spam-box. Richmond. From simon at asato-media.com Sat Aug 24 04:11:29 2013 From: simon at asato-media.com (As_Simon) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 01:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: <67597829479.20130822163602@ahsoftware.net> References: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> <68420258091.20130820151630@ahsoftware.net> <171441294013.20130820210706@ahsoftware.net> <76590492365.20130822143344@ahsoftware.net> <67597829479.20130822163602@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <1377331889949-4669072.post@n4.nabble.com> Just to add to Bj?rnkes coolness, He has publicly said that it can be built into a standalone. http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=16606 Never wanted to abuse his work without his consent. Simon -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/html-tags-recognized-by-htmlText-tp4668935p4669072.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From th.douez at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 04:46:43 2013 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 10:46:43 +0200 Subject: Google's SPAM filters [was Re: Finding the calling code/object/script?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yep. Just got yours as a spam. I got ?3 or 4 Livecode post flagged as spam every day since a couple of weeks :( 2013/8/23 Nicolas Cueto > On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > Oddly, google flagged Scott's message as spam. I only found it when > > looking after Craig referred to it . . . > > > > Each few hours now for several weeks Google's SMAP filter has been > mistakenly categorizing a handful of list messages at a time. Seems like 10 > to 20 messages a day, with no recognizable pattern to them. > > Anyone else? > > -- > Nicolas Cueto > ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com Maker of sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage From ilola.antti at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 09:33:37 2013 From: ilola.antti at gmail.com (Antti Ilola) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 16:33:37 +0300 Subject: Google's SPAM filters [was Re: Finding the calling code/object/script?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have also noticed that some messages Google categorizing as spam. 2013/8/24 Thierry Douez > Yep. > > Just got yours as a spam. > > I got > ?3 or 4 Livecode post flagged as spam every day since a couple of weeks :( > > > 2013/8/23 Nicolas Cueto > > > On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > > > Oddly, google flagged Scott's message as spam. I only found it when > > > looking after Craig referred to it . . . > > > > > > > Each few hours now for several weeks Google's SMAP filter has been > > mistakenly categorizing a handful of list messages at a time. Seems like > 10 > > to 20 messages a day, with no recognizable pattern to them. > > > > Anyone else? > > > > -- > > Nicolas Cueto > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com > Maker of sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 10:23:24 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:23:24 -0700 Subject: Google's SPAM filters [was Re: Finding the calling code/object/script?] In-Reply-To: <5218538E.8090506@gmail.com> References: <5218538E.8090506@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 11:32 PM, Richmond wrote: > It just put 4 messages with the same headers in 2 different places: 2 in the > in-box and > two in the spam-box. In my case, Scott's was in spam, the rest of the thread not. And a check showed that the overwhelming majority of recent list traffic had been sent to spam. About 100 messages from the previous few days . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 10:34:58 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:34:58 -0700 Subject: ANN:Another app made with LiveCode has been approved by Apple! In-Reply-To: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: > There is an in-app component to make the app do more, but there is a twist. We are billing through the > desktop app to make the mobile app get extended features. The iPad app communicates with the > desktop app to know if the purchase as been made. You can probably guess what that means. I'm particularly interested in this--I plan on an ipad version of my application, but don't intend to charge any more for it than needed to stop random downloads; it is purely a companion piece to the (presumably remote) desktop. It won't be able to purchase new licenses for "per use" users, but I'm assuming that it will be able to initiate a new case if uses have been pre-paid from the desktop or web. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 10:37:51 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:37:51 -0700 Subject: A basic explanation of what nested or chained behaviors are? Message-ID: I keep seeing the references to nested or chained behaviors, but is there an actual explanation of what this *is* somewhere? Is it multiple inheritance? A linked list? Everything I've seen so far assumes that you already know what it is. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 24 14:08:11 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 11:08:11 -0700 Subject: Implications of DOJ vs Apple for developers? Message-ID: <5218F68B.7080504@fourthworld.com> Having found Apple guilty of price-fixing, the DOJ has required the company to "let competitors link to their own e-book stores from their apps." for a period of at least five years: What I haven't been able to find is whether this applies only to "ebooks", or to any in-app purchases in the Apple app store. With ebooks employing ever-increasing interactivity, what's the difference between an "ebook" and an "app" in terms of this injunction? Are all developers now free to link to payment options for add-on "content" outside of Apple's store? If not, how exactly is "ebook" defined in the DOJ's injunction? I've been trying to dig up URLs with details on this, but so far all I'm finding is flamewar fodder and little substance. Thanks in advance for any real info you can share. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From dunbarx at aol.com Sat Aug 24 14:42:14 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 14:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A basic explanation of what nested or chained behaviors are? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D06F10C90EC753-1734-8894@webmail-m215.sysops.aol.com> Richard. Not a linked list, if I understand your meaning. If you have three buttons, and set the behavior of button 1 to the ID of button 2, and then set the behavior of button 2 to the ID of button 3, you will not be able to use the script of button 3 when you click on button 1. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Hawkins To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Sat, Aug 24, 2013 10:38 am Subject: A basic explanation of what nested or chained behaviors are? I keep seeing the references to nested or chained behaviors, but is there an actual explanation of what this *is* somewhere? Is it multiple inheritance? A linked list? Everything I've seen so far assumes that you already know what it is. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Sat Aug 24 15:14:25 2013 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:14:25 -0700 Subject: Implications of DOJ vs Apple for developers? In-Reply-To: <5218F68B.7080504@fourthworld.com> References: <5218F68B.7080504@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <650B65D1-74EE-4515-A33B-9E9BDBB09EE6@me.com> Adam Engst of TidBits writes a good bit about this. An explanation of the decision: http://tidbits.com/article/13912 The remedies: http://tidbits.com/article/13998 I don't think it applies at all to the iTunes store because it had to do with Apple talking to the book publishers and they coming up with an agreement on pricing together. The eBook idea in this case seems to deal only with books published by the 5 major publishers in both print and eBook format, and the prices set for the eBooks. I didn't see any indication that it would cover other publications in other venues such as the iTunes store. There, Apple doesn't control the prices set for apps, the publishers do. Peter Bogdanoff UCLA On Aug 24, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Having found Apple guilty of price-fixing, the DOJ has required the company to "let competitors link to their own e-book stores from their apps." for a period of at least five years: > > > What I haven't been able to find is whether this applies only to "ebooks", or to any in-app purchases in the Apple app store. > > With ebooks employing ever-increasing interactivity, what's the difference between an "ebook" and an "app" in terms of this injunction? > > Are all developers now free to link to payment options for add-on "content" outside of Apple's store? > > If not, how exactly is "ebook" defined in the DOJ's injunction? > > I've been trying to dig up URLs with details on this, but so far all I'm finding is flamewar fodder and little substance. > > Thanks in advance for any real info you can share. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 24 16:00:58 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 15:00:58 -0500 Subject: A basic explanation of what nested or chained behaviors are? In-Reply-To: <8D06F10C90EC753-1734-8894@webmail-m215.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D06F10C90EC753-1734-8894@webmail-m215.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <521910FA.90406@hyperactivesw.com> Dr. Hawkins wrote: > I keep seeing the references to nested or chained behaviors, but is > there an actual explanation of what this*is* somewhere? It's in the dictionary under the "behavior" entry, which has been updated for LiveCode 6.1. Basically, chained behaviors let you assign more than one behavior to an object. The normal inheritance path determines what will occur. Messages pass from the first behavior on through subsequent parent behaviors until they are acted on. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 16:03:07 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 13:03:07 -0700 Subject: Implications of DOJ vs Apple for developers? In-Reply-To: <5218F68B.7080504@fourthworld.com> References: <5218F68B.7080504@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > What I haven't been able to find is whether this applies only to "ebooks", > or to any in-app purchases in the Apple app store. I don't see how it could go beyond ebooks--that's where apple was found to have fixed prices. A very bizarre case, in which they "conspired" to fix prices at a *lower* price than that of the prevailing monopoly . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 16:05:50 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 13:05:50 -0700 Subject: A basic explanation of what nested or chained behaviors are? In-Reply-To: <521910FA.90406@hyperactivesw.com> References: <8D06F10C90EC753-1734-8894@webmail-m215.sysops.aol.com> <521910FA.90406@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 1:00 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > It's in the dictionary under the "behavior" entry, which has been updated > for LiveCode 6.1. Basically, chained behaviors let you assign more than one > behavior to an object. The normal inheritance path determines what will > occur. Messages pass from the first behavior on through subsequent parent > behaviors until they are acted on. Ahh. That makes sense--just letting us put more than one behavior in the normal message path? I don't have 6.1 installed on this machine; I'll have to lok when I get back to the office on Monday (it keeps setting itself as the default program, and it's not clear to me that it's reached beta stability, let alone production, so I'm still on 5.5.) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From zryip.theslug at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 17:51:07 2013 From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 23:51:07 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Library for scripting MS Excel with LC - Beta Testers needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A quick update. First of all, a big thanks to all our enthusiast testers. I didn't expected so many replies! All testers should now have received the Excel Library beta package. If not, having a look to any spams box could help. About Word and PowerPoint libraries. This is something possible and once the Excel Library released, I have plans to make them a reality. However, I will have to come with a different approach than how the Excel Library was built, because developing, testing and documenting such a library of about 150 commands is a real big task. Doing things more progressively with immediate users feedback, could be a better approach. Will think to that. Thanks again. Best Regards, -- Zryip TheSlug http://www.aslugontheroad.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 24 17:57:55 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 14:57:55 -0700 Subject: Implications of DOJ vs Apple for developers? In-Reply-To: <650B65D1-74EE-4515-A33B-9E9BDBB09EE6@me.com> References: <650B65D1-74EE-4515-A33B-9E9BDBB09EE6@me.com> Message-ID: <52192C63.4080008@fourthworld.com> Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Adam Engst of TidBits writes a good bit about this. > > An explanation of the decision: > http://tidbits.com/article/13912 > > The remedies: > http://tidbits.com/article/13998 Thanks, Peter. > I don't think it applies at all to the iTunes store because it had > to do with Apple talking to the book publishers and they coming up > with an agreement on pricing together. > > The eBook idea in this case seems to deal only with books published > by the 5 major publishers in both print and eBook format, and the > prices set for the eBooks. I didn't see any indication that it > would cover other publications in other venues such as the iTunes > store. There, Apple doesn't control the prices set for apps, the > publishers do. Publishers could set their price, they just couldn't set it any lower than was available in Apple's store. In that regard, the situation seems similar to that of any content provider - I suspect we'll see similar rules across the board as others start wondering why ebook publishers can bypass the store but they can't. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Aug 24 21:29:14 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 21:29:14 -0400 Subject: Implications of DOJ vs Apple for developers? In-Reply-To: <52192C63.4080008@fourthworld.com> References: <650B65D1-74EE-4515-A33B-9E9BDBB09EE6@me.com> <52192C63.4080008@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: There has been no decision on remedies. The remedies you listed are NOT the ones approved by the court, just proposed by the DOJ. We can debate how rational or bizarre the decision seems, but until it has worked its way through to SCOTUS, nothing is really decided. I would be surprised if SCOTUS let this stand, as any of the publishers was free to tell Apple to go to hell, but simply chose not to. On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > > > Adam Engst of TidBits writes a good bit about this. > > > > An explanation of the decision: > > http://tidbits.com/article/**13912 > > > > The remedies: > > http://tidbits.com/article/**13998 > > Thanks, Peter. > > > > > I don't think it applies at all to the iTunes store because it had > > to do with Apple talking to the book publishers and they coming up > > with an agreement on pricing together. > > > > The eBook idea in this case seems to deal only with books published > > by the 5 major publishers in both print and eBook format, and the > > prices set for the eBooks. I didn't see any indication that it > > would cover other publications in other venues such as the iTunes > > store. There, Apple doesn't control the prices set for apps, the > > publishers do. > > Publishers could set their price, they just couldn't set it any lower than > was available in Apple's store. > > In that regard, the situation seems similar to that of any content > provider - I suspect we'll see similar rules across the board as others > start wondering why ebook publishers can bypass the store but they can't. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Aug 24 21:31:22 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 21:31:22 -0400 Subject: Implications of DOJ vs Apple for developers? In-Reply-To: References: <650B65D1-74EE-4515-A33B-9E9BDBB09EE6@me.com> <52192C63.4080008@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: And in addition, this "conspiracy" is by proxy. Does anyone else know of a case where a conspiracy by proxy was found to violate this statute? On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > There has been no decision on remedies. The remedies you listed are NOT > the ones approved by the court, just proposed by the DOJ. We can debate > how rational or bizarre the decision seems, but until it has worked its way > through to SCOTUS, nothing is really decided. I would be surprised if > SCOTUS let this stand, as any of the publishers was free to tell Apple to > go to hell, but simply chose not to. > > > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Richard Gaskin < > ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote: > >> Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >> >> > Adam Engst of TidBits writes a good bit about this. >> > >> > An explanation of the decision: >> > http://tidbits.com/article/**13912 >> > >> > The remedies: >> > http://tidbits.com/article/**13998 >> >> Thanks, Peter. >> >> >> >> > I don't think it applies at all to the iTunes store because it had >> > to do with Apple talking to the book publishers and they coming up >> > with an agreement on pricing together. >> > >> > The eBook idea in this case seems to deal only with books published >> > by the 5 major publishers in both print and eBook format, and the >> > prices set for the eBooks. I didn't see any indication that it >> > would cover other publications in other venues such as the iTunes >> > store. There, Apple doesn't control the prices set for apps, the >> > publishers do. >> >> Publishers could set their price, they just couldn't set it any lower >> than was available in Apple's store. >> >> In that regard, the situation seems similar to that of any content >> provider - I suspect we'll see similar rules across the board as others >> start wondering why ebook publishers can bypass the store but they can't. >> >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World >> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com >> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com >> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From cszasz at me.com Sun Aug 25 00:15:43 2013 From: cszasz at me.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 00:15:43 -0400 Subject: Problem with importing snapshot Message-ID: <37E43471-16C5-4E09-B71C-B1CB37A3A388@me.com> I watched Kevin's Working with the Clipboard video several times and found it very helpful! But it left me up in the air about pasting a group into a LiveCode project. I tried the following: on mouseUp export snapshot from group id 126899 of card "graph" to myImage as PNG go stack "report" import snapshot from group id 126899 of card "graph" of stack "report" end mouseUp This works but it "strips" all of the text that is on the border of the PNG but is still included in the group. The group is a ChartMaker graph. In any case, I did not expect this to occur. Any thoughts or suggestions? Charles Szasz cszasz at mac.com From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 25 11:33:15 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 08:33:15 -0700 Subject: Implications of DOJ vs Apple for developers? In-Reply-To: References: <650B65D1-74EE-4515-A33B-9E9BDBB09EE6@me.com> <52192C63.4080008@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > There has been no decision on remedies. The remedies you listed are NOT > the ones approved by the court, just proposed by the DOJ. Having *some* familiarity with this area of law from my former life, though, something like this is likely what remedies will look like, give or take (but there are other possibilities). Keep in mind that if the judge hadn't run around shooting off his mouth in public, Microsoft would be two companies today . . . (contrary to popular belief and the Microsoft line, the split *not* found inappropriate or overturned---the appellate court vacated everything the judge did after a certain date as his behavior undermined public confidence in his neutrality and the fairness of the process [and *noone*, except perhaps OJ, has *ever* gotten more due process out of the system]). >We can debate > how rational or bizarre the decision seems, but until it has worked its way > through to SCOTUS, nothing is really decided. I would be surprised if > SCOTUS let this stand, as any of the publishers was free to tell Apple to > go to hell, but simply chose not to. This might even end at the circuit court. The underlying legal theory is kind of bizarre, and against the trend of the last 30 years of antitrust law: To deal with an oligopoly, you built market power among the victims, and used this market power in a way that lowers prices for consumers. Yeah, the oligopolists were hurt, but so what? This was very much pro-consumer behavior. The prosecution is in line with 1950's litigation against IBM, not a judiciary which has digested Bork's "Antitrust Paradox" and Posner's writing on the subject. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 25 11:34:16 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 08:34:16 -0700 Subject: Implications of DOJ vs Apple for developers? In-Reply-To: References: <650B65D1-74EE-4515-A33B-9E9BDBB09EE6@me.com> <52192C63.4080008@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > And in addition, this "conspiracy" is by proxy. Does anyone else know of a > case where a conspiracy by proxy was found to violate this statute? I don't know about this statute, but it's always enough to make one a conspirator--just being part of the agreement does that (and the agreement can be tacit instead of explicit). -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 25 15:09:27 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 12:09:27 -0700 Subject: my message box keeps wandering Message-ID: My message box seems determined to go on a walkabout. Each time I open, it drifts down further form where I left it, eventually running off the field. this is on OSX with 5.5.4, and only started happening reently -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 25 16:46:04 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 13:46:04 -0700 Subject: converting text to dos format Message-ID: Apparently, the ECF filing system used by federal courts expects the whole world to be in dos format. When I write a file from livecode on OSX, and then upload that file, ECF fails to recognize that there is more than one line (but when I dump from openoffice, I'm fine). I need to override the behavior of accommodating the host filesystem in livecode, and dumping exactly what that idiotic system expects. would it be something like replace cr with cr & lf (where I first define as ascii 10)? Or with lf & cr? It's been a *long* time since I've dealt with dos, or dos filesystem for anything other than going back and forth between BSD and Linux (historically, both do quiet damages to the other's file system) thanks -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sun Aug 25 16:55:56 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 22:55:56 +0200 Subject: converting text to dos format In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <521A6F5C.8080708@economy-x-talk.com> Richard, When not on Mac OS X, you need to replace linefeed with crlf, convert text to ISO and write the file as binfile, e.g. put fld 1 into myVar put macToIso(myVar) into myVar replace lf with crlf in myVar put myVar into url "binfile:~/desktop/file.txt" -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/25/2013 22:46, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > Apparently, the ECF filing system used by federal courts expects the > whole world to be in dos format. > > When I write a file from livecode on OSX, and then upload that file, > ECF fails to recognize that there is more than one line (but when I > dump from openoffice, I'm fine). > > I need to override the behavior of accommodating the host filesystem > in livecode, and dumping exactly what that idiotic system expects. > > would it be something like > > replace cr with cr & lf > > (where I first define as ascii 10)? > > Or with lf & cr? > > It's been a *long* time since I've dealt with dos, or dos filesystem > for anything other than going back and forth between BSD and Linux > (historically, both do quiet damages to the other's file system) > > thanks > From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 25 17:05:16 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 14:05:16 -0700 Subject: moving the layer of a group within another group Message-ID: I'm not sure this is likely to com e up a lot in general, but it sure is right now . . . I collect some fields that are in front of modifiable fields, and group them, then set the name but then set the layer of grp "grp_dfl_flds" of tgGr to bottom where tgGr is the long id of the original group In particular, I want the new grp to be at the bottom of grp tgGr -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 25 17:12:17 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 14:12:17 -0700 Subject: converting text to dos format In-Reply-To: <521A6F5C.8080708@economy-x-talk.com> References: <521A6F5C.8080708@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > When not on Mac OS X, you need to replace linefeed with crlf, convert text > to ISO and write the file as binfile, e.g. > > put fld 1 into myVar > put macToIso(myVar) into myVar > replace lf with crlf in myVar > put myVar into url "binfile:~/desktop/file.txt" It's not so much not on macos, but that this runs on macos, but the remote system apparently expects dos (I *assume* they actually run unix, but the thing is so sloppy that a server on windows wouldn't surprise me . . .) My code needs to produce a file that can be sent to this remote system regardless of my host os. So would I use mactoiso & binfile like this on osx and linux, but just the filed and file if running on the dark side? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jiml at netrin.com Sun Aug 25 18:08:37 2013 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 15:08:37 -0700 Subject: Problem with importing snapshot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Charles wrote: > on mouseUp > > export snapshot from group id 126899 of card "graph" to myImage as PNG > > go stack "report" > > import snapshot from group id 126899 of card "graph" of stack "report" > > end mouseUp > > This works but it "strips" all of the text that is on the border of the PNG but is still included in the group. The group is a ChartMaker graph. In any case, I did not expect this to occur. Any thoughts or suggestions? Hi Charles, > export snapshot from group id 126899 of card "graph" to myImage as PNG Puts the snapshot into a variable but you don't seem to be using that variable anywhere. You could then issue this command put myImage into image "dummy" assuming you have an image of that name. The > go stack "report" command confuses me. If card 'graph' is in stack 'report' and this button is not in stack 'report' then export snapshot should have thrown an error. If you're already in stack 'report' then the GO STACK is useless. Let me assume this button is not in stack 'report' . Try: on mouseup import snapshot from group id 126899 of card "graph" of stack "report" end mouseup This should do what you need. It will put a picture of gro id 126899 into a new image on the current card (in whatever stack the button resides.) You also might want to try this test. Quit LiveCode Open LiveCode Create a new stack create a button Apply this script on mouseUp import snapshot from group 1 of cd 1 of stack "/Users/jimlambert/Documents/My LiveCode/Plugins/ChartMaker Playground 1 - SlideShow.rev" end mouseUp Make sure to change the path to match the location on your machine of your chartmaker playground stacks. When you click the button a picture of a chart should appear on your card as a new image with no text stripped. If you find that snapshots of a group don't include text then perhaps that text is not really part of the group. Maybe group id 126899 of card "graph" is part of another group. If so, use that group's id. Jim Lambert From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sun Aug 25 18:35:20 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:35:20 +0200 Subject: converting text to dos format In-Reply-To: References: <521A6F5C.8080708@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <521A86A8.9030905@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Richard, I don't know how you are uploading the data to the remote server, but probably you don't need to use "binfile". Just use macToIso to convert the data, replace cr with crlf and upload your data. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/25/2013 23:12, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Mark Schonewille > wrote: >> When not on Mac OS X, you need to replace linefeed with crlf, convert text >> to ISO and write the file as binfile, e.g. >> >> put fld 1 into myVar >> put macToIso(myVar) into myVar >> replace lf with crlf in myVar >> put myVar into url "binfile:~/desktop/file.txt" > > It's not so much not on macos, but that this runs on macos, but the > remote system apparently expects dos (I *assume* they actually run > unix, but the thing is so sloppy that a server on windows wouldn't > surprise me . . .) > > My code needs to produce a file that can be sent to this remote system > regardless of my host os. > > So would I use mactoiso & binfile like this on osx and linux, but just > the filed and file if running on the dark side? > > From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 25 19:00:49 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 16:00:49 -0700 Subject: converting text to dos format In-Reply-To: <521A86A8.9030905@economy-x-talk.com> References: <521A6F5C.8080708@economy-x-talk.com> <521A86A8.9030905@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > > I don't know how you are uploading the data to the remote server, Firefox (or any other web browser, I suppose, at least the ones they didn't screw up (did I mention that ecf is an abomination?) > but > probably you don't need to use "binfile". Just use macToIso to convert the > data, replace cr with crlf and upload your data. OK, but do I need a switch here to *not* do this if running on windows? thanks -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From mfstuart at cox.net Sun Aug 25 19:01:50 2013 From: mfstuart at cox.net (Mark) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 16:01:50 -0700 Subject: How to build webcam application Message-ID: Hi all, I was wondering how to go about building a desktop application that would allow people to watch my band play live at a gig. These people are not able to attend the gig, so I was thinking that this client and host app would allow them to watch and listen in a live scenario. Anyone have any ideas about how to go about this? Thanx, Mark From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sun Aug 25 19:13:19 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 01:13:19 +0200 Subject: converting text to dos format In-Reply-To: References: <521A6F5C.8080708@economy-x-talk.com> <521A86A8.9030905@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, MacToIso: yes replace cr with crlf: no -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. On 26 aug 2013, at 01:00, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > OK, but do I need a switch here to *not* do this if running on windows? > > thanks > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 25 19:14:56 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 16:14:56 -0700 Subject: How to build webcam application In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79113686388.20130825161456@ahsoftware.net> Mark- Sunday, August 25, 2013, 4:01:50 PM, you wrote: > Anyone have any ideas about how to go about this? Suggestion: don't even think about it. The bandwidth would kill you. Instead, think about partnering with concertwindow. Or go the low-tech ustream route and put up with network buffering and dropped connections. http://www.concertwindow.com/open http://www.ustream.tv/ -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From bvg at mac.com Sun Aug 25 19:30:51 2013 From: bvg at mac.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 01:30:51 +0200 Subject: html tags recognized by htmlText In-Reply-To: <76590492365.20130822143344@ahsoftware.net> References: <924FEAB9-DE81-4C4F-96DF-F7DD791BB37C@byu.edu> <68420258091.20130820151630@ahsoftware.net> <171441294013.20130820210706@ahsoftware.net> <76590492365.20130822143344@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <957F012F-1B59-4C2C-8035-70DC908AE7F8@mac.com> > Meanwhile Bjornke has come up with a way to convert the doc files into > a SQLite database, and that makes it faster, more maintainable, easier > to use, and more flexible. Unfortunately his converter doesn't work on > linux, but the resulting database is cross-platform. I can't really test on Linux, but most likely the problem is with where LiveCode stores it's user add ons. In LC, go to the "Preferences" Menu -> "Files & memory" Pane -> "User extensions" (at the bottom) That one needs to be set to a writeable, existing folder. LC does not check if the folder exists. If that is not the problem, you might need to check if the dictionary is stored differently by the IDE on linux: put the cCustomizationPath of stack "revpreferences" Tho.. that knowledge wouldn't really do you any good... err.. yeah xD -- Use an alternative Dictionary viewer: http://bjoernke.com/bvgdocu/ Chat with other RunRev developers: http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/ From pepetoo at cox.net Sun Aug 25 19:40:43 2013 From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 16:40:43 -0700 Subject: How to build webcam application In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, (Everyone else please excuse me for using this Forum.) We've never connected, but I thought I should give you my nephews email address. He is retired from his day job, but often plays gigs with a couple of his buddies. I don't know much about this but this is what the Internet is good for. He's not Mac unfriendly, but doesn't code or anything like that. He lives in Huntington Beach and travels back and forth from there and NYC all the time. His name is Dan Bolten and his email address is: Dan Bolten I'm copying him with this msg. Maybe you guys can do each other some good. Joe Lewis Wilkins On Aug 25, 2013, at 4:01 PM, Mark wrote: > Hi all, > I was wondering how to go about building a desktop application that would allow people to watch my band play live at a gig. > These people are not able to attend the gig, so I was thinking that this client and host app would allow them to watch and listen in a live scenario. > > Anyone have any ideas about how to go about this? > > Thanx, > Mark > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From cszasz at me.com Sun Aug 25 20:24:58 2013 From: cszasz at me.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 20:24:58 -0400 Subject: Problem with importing snapshot Message-ID: Jim, Thanks for your comments. I did use my variable, myImage but I accidentally omitted it. Here is my actual script: export snapshot from group id 126899 of card "graph" to myImage as PNG set the clipBoardData["image"] to myImage go stack "report" put myImage into image id 1033 of card "page1" of stack "report" The stack "report" is a substack of my app and is used for printing. The code is in my print button of my main stack. The above code works but as I mentioned it strips out the text in the image. Charles Szasz cszasz at mac.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 25 21:23:34 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 18:23:34 -0700 Subject: Problem with importing snapshot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <521AAE16.4010807@fourthworld.com> Charles Szasz wrote: > Jim, > > Thanks for your comments. I did use my variable, myImage but > I accidentally omitted it. Here is my actual script: > > export snapshot from group id 126899 of card "graph" to myImage as PNG > set the clipBoardData["image"] to myImage > > go stack "report" > > put myImage into image id 1033 of card "page1" of stack "report" > > > The stack "report" is a substack of my app and is used for printing. > The code is in my print button of my main stack. The above code works > but as I mentioned it strips out the text in the image. Is the backgroundBehavior of the group set to true? If it is, I suspect the problem is that the text of the field is stored with the card record rather than the field itself, so when using the "from " form of "export" it renders the object records, and unfortunately isn't taking other objects like the card into account. I could consider this a bug, and if you have time to submit a simple example stack to illustrate the problem I'd guess it wouldn't be hard for them to fix; I believe they've already addressed other bugs related to the storage of the field contents in background (copy, maybe? I don't recall which ones). As a workaround, I wonder if you could copy the group to an offscreen stack, set the backroundBehavior to false, and then run the export on that copy? Please let me know if that works, and if not some other workaround is likely possible. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From jiml at netrin.com Sun Aug 25 22:41:15 2013 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 19:41:15 -0700 Subject: Problem with importing snapshot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1092AD17-821C-4FE2-B4D9-900DB665112B@netrin.com> Charles wrote: > Jim, > > Thanks for your comments. I did use my variable, myImage but I accidentally omitted it. Here is my actual script: > > export snapshot from group id 126899 of card "graph" to myImage as PNG > set the clipBoardData["image"] to myImage > > go stack "report" > > put myImage into image id 1033 of card "page1" of stack "report" > > > The stack "report" is a substack of my app and is used for printing. The code is in my print button of my main stack. The above code works but as I mentioned it strips out the text in the image. Richard's advice is very good. You might also try this. on mouseup lock screen go to card "graph" import snapshot from rect (rect of grp id 126899) of window the windowid of this stack to myImage as PNG put myImage into image id 1033 of card "page1" of stack "report" go back unlock screen -- anything else end mouseup This bypasses the issue Richard mentioned and simply does a screen capture of the pixels in the area occupied by the group. Jim Lambert P.S. You may find it necessary to adjust the width and height of img id 1033 after putting myImage into it. set the width of img image id 1033 of card "page1" to the width of grp id 126899 set the height of img image id 1033 of card "page1" to the height of grp id 126899 From cszasz at me.com Sun Aug 25 22:50:29 2013 From: cszasz at me.com (Charles Szasz) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 22:50:29 -0400 Subject: Problem with importing snapshot Message-ID: <0D55C9A0-C427-4A33-8181-DCCA6CA00420@me.com> Richard, Many thanks for trying to help me! I checked and found that the backgroundBehavior is not checked at all. Charles Szasz cszasz at mac.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 25 23:08:17 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 20:08:17 -0700 Subject: Problem with importing snapshot In-Reply-To: <0D55C9A0-C427-4A33-8181-DCCA6CA00420@me.com> References: <0D55C9A0-C427-4A33-8181-DCCA6CA00420@me.com> Message-ID: <521AC6A1.4030802@fourthworld.com> Charles Szasz wrote: > Richard, > > Many thanks for trying to help me! I checked and found that the backgroundBehavior is not checked at all. Thanks for checking that. This bug may be murkier than I'd thought. Is the field's sharedText property set to true? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From sims at ezpzapps.com Sun Aug 25 23:47:31 2013 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 05:47:31 +0200 Subject: snapshot - iOS - upload image Message-ID: *I'm using the following code in iOS to:* * select an image from the library* *reduce it in size as set by the templateimage* *import snapshot of that image from my card* *then upload it to my server * *-- btw WE NEED A SAFER FTP!!!!!* * * *It seems to do all these things but the image that lands on the server cannot be viewed in Preview when retrieved from the server.* * * *Am doing this via the iOS Simulator which will upload viewable images that are not from a snapshot but just "the last image" after selecting via mobilepickphoto "library" * * * *Any idea why the snapshot image that is uploaded is no good?* * * *on* mouseUp *set* the width of the templateImage to 80 *set* the height of the templateImage to 30 *set* the lockLoc of the templateImage to true mobilepickphoto "library" *put* the rect of the last image into tRect *import* snapshot from rectangle tRect * * *put* the last image into url (" ftp://me:password at ftp.ezpzapps.com/public_html/1AX.jpg") *if* the result is not empty *then* *answer* "url put failed:" && the result *else* *answer* "success!" *end* *if* *end* mouseUp From dr.alistair at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 02:37:23 2013 From: dr.alistair at gmail.com (planix) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 23:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Any ideas on working out number of characters(approx) that can be entered into a field Message-ID: <1377499043105-4669110.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi All, I am looking for ways to determine the approximate number of characters that will fit into a text field of fixed height and width. I am guessing there is some way of doing this by working with the line height, font size, and the height and width of the field. Anyone ever had a need to do this? Or is there an obvious way? I am developing a small project for my 14yo daughter to work on. She is always having to produce palm cards for talks at school. Using Word is a pain for this sort of thing. I thought it might be fun and useful for her to develop a palm card creator. Essentially we would create a base card with a text field of fixed height and width. When she types or pastes text into the field it would detect when the first palm card is full, create a new one, and then flow the text into the next text field. This would go on until all the text is entered. Then we print the cards (probably 4-6 to a page) and viola - palm cards sorted. cheers -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Any-ideas-on-working-out-number-of-characters-approx-that-can-be-entered-into-a-field-tp4669110.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From scott at elementarysoftware.com Mon Aug 26 04:25:27 2013 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 01:25:27 -0700 Subject: Any ideas on working out number of characters(approx) that can be entered into a field In-Reply-To: <1377499043105-4669110.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1377499043105-4669110.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1355B5C2-1569-461A-A352-BAE419FD9271@elementarysoftware.com> You should be able to fill each "palm card" more or less exactly. This script should get you started. -- copy all the styled text into the first palm card field set the htmlText of fld "PalmCard" to the htmlText of fld "AllText" -- the text needs to be broken into palm card sized chunks put 1 into tCardCounter put the number of chars of fld "PalmCard" into tNumOfChars put the formattedHeight of char 1 to tNumOfChars of fld "PalmCard" into tCharHeight put (the height of fld "PalmCard") into tFieldHeight REPEAT until tFieldHeight >= tCharHeight put the number of chars of fld "PalmCard" into tNumOfChars put the formattedHeight of char 1 to tNumOfChars of fld "PalmCard" into tCharHeight -- remove extra characters and put the remaining into a new field on a new card REPEAT with c = 1 to tNumOfChars IF the formattedHeight of char 1 to c of fld "PalmCard" >= tFieldHeight - 24 THEN -- <-24> is wiggle room put the htmlText of char c to -1 of fld "PalmCard" into tHtmlText delete char c to -1 of fld "PalmCard" clone cd tCardCounter put tCardCounter + 1 into tCardCounter set the htmlText of fld "PalmCard" to tHtmlText -- put the text that didn't fit into the new field exit REPEAT END IF END REPEAT -- remove extra characters and put the remaining into a new field END REPEAT -- text in the last field fits -- Scott Morrow Elementary Software (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) web http://elementarysoftware.com/ email scott at elementarysoftware.com office 1-800-615-0867 ------------------------------------------------------ On Aug 25, 2013, at 11:37 PM, planix wrote: > Hi All, > > I am looking for ways to determine the approximate number of characters that > will fit into a text field of fixed height and width. > > I am guessing there is some way of doing this by working with the line > height, font size, and the height and width of the field. Anyone ever had a > need to do this? Or is there an obvious way? > > I am developing a small project for my 14yo daughter to work on. She is > always having to produce palm cards for talks at school. Using Word is a > pain for this sort of thing. I thought it might be fun and useful for her to > develop a palm card creator. Essentially we would create a base card with a > text field of fixed height and width. When she types or pastes text into the > field it would detect when the first palm card is full, create a new one, > and then flow the text into the next text field. This would go on until all > the text is entered. Then we print the cards (probably 4-6 to a page) and > viola - palm cards sorted. > > cheers > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Any-ideas-on-working-out-number-of-characters-approx-that-can-be-entered-into-a-field-tp4669110.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neil at runrev.com Mon Aug 26 04:32:36 2013 From: neil at runrev.com (Neil Roger) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 09:32:36 +0100 Subject: snapshot - iOS - upload image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <521B12A4.1090108@runrev.com> Hi Jim, Could you try something like the following to see if you are able to upload then view an image - on mouseUp --this just makes sure the pic is of a reasonable size to work with set the width of the templateImage to 250 set the height of the templateImage to 250 set the lockLoc of the templateImage to true --take the picture mobilepickphoto "library" --upload to FTP put the last image into url ("ftp://username:password at host/newimage.jpg") --Informs of successful or unsuccessful upload if the result is not empty then answer "url put failed:" && the result else answer "success!" end if end mouseUp I ask this as I have used the above script previously to successfully to upload an image that is then viewable when downloaded. Kind Regards, Neil Roger -- RunRev Support Team ~ http://www.runrev.com -- On 26/08/2013 04:47, Jim sims wrote: > *I'm using the following code in iOS to:* > > * select an image from the library* > > *reduce it in size as set by the templateimage* > > *import snapshot of that image from my card* > > *then upload it to my server * > > *-- btw WE NEED A SAFER FTP!!!!!* > > * > * > > *It seems to do all these things but the image that lands on the server > cannot be viewed in Preview when retrieved from the server.* > > * > * > > *Am doing this via the iOS Simulator which will upload viewable images that > are not from a snapshot but just "the last image" after selecting via > mobilepickphoto "library" > * > > * > * > > *Any idea why the snapshot image that is uploaded is no good?* > > * > * > > *on* mouseUp > > *set* the width of the templateImage to 80 > > *set* the height of the templateImage to 30 > > *set* the lockLoc of the templateImage to true > > mobilepickphoto "library" > > > > *put* the rect of the last image into tRect > > *import* snapshot from rectangle tRect > > * > * > > *put* the last image into url (" > ftp://me:password at ftp.ezpzapps.com/public_html/1AX.jpg") > > > *if* the result is not empty *then* > > *answer* "url put failed:" && the result > > *else* > > *answer* "success!" > > *end* *if* > > *end* mouseUp > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk Mon Aug 26 06:32:21 2013 From: m_p_wilcox at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:32:21 +0100 (BST) Subject: Implications of DOJ vs Apple for developers? In-Reply-To: <52192C63.4080008@fourthworld.com> References: <650B65D1-74EE-4515-A33B-9E9BDBB09EE6@me.com> <52192C63.4080008@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1377513141.12261.YahooMailNeo@web28802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> > Publishers could set their price, they just couldn't set it any lower than was available in Apple's store. Apple very clearly did collude with publishers to try to set some minimum pricing for ebooks, which is most certainly against the law. The DoJ is bonkers because the minimum pricing they were setting was below that typically available in the near-monopoly Amazon store. Apple was colluding with publishers to try to introduce competition to the market and break some of Amazon's monopoly power. > In that regard, the situation seems similar to that of any content provider - I suspect we'll see similar rules across the board as others start wondering why ebook publishers can bypass the store but they can't. As I understood the proposed change, it's not ebook publishers or ebook apps that are being singled out for special treatment, but ebook stores/readers. So Amazon's Kindle app (for example) would be able to link to its own store for purchasing ebooks but an individual ebook app wouldn't be able to use an external payment mechanism to download additional chapters. I very much doubt this particular change will happen because it is entirely outside the scope of the original price fixing issue but also draws an obvious parallel to other media (e.g. music) where Apple has massively more pricing power and market share than they do in ebooks. On the general topic of allowing external payments for in-app purchase, Google has just changed it's policies to be much more in line with Apple. Content on Google Play has to use Google Play's in-app billing service as the method of payment except: * where payment is primarily for physical goods or services (e.g. buying movie tickets, or buying a publication where the price also includes a hard copy subscription); or * where payment is for digital content or goods that may be consumed outside of the application itself (e.g. buying songs that can be played on other music players). The first point is almost identical to the app store (except Apple doesn't allow you to use their in-app purchase for physical goods at all). The second point is similar to Apple's allowing external content purchases and subscriptions for apps, except Apple doesn't allow that payment to occur within the app, nor link to an external website where it can happen. Obviously the second point allows for ebook purchases in e.g. the Kindle app to go through Amazon. Apple's basic premise is that if you use their store for discovery or as the only channel for delivering your service then you can pay them a sales commission. Since the app store is truly terrible as a discovery mechanism (for all but a handful of apps at the top) and most services need to be on both iOS and Android now, this issue seems to get much more attention than it deserves. The only condition that's occasionally tricky to comply with is providing some content for those that haven't paid, so the app isn't just a login box. Since Apple clearly doesn't have a monopoly in smartphones (or even tablets) I don't see why any kind of regulator should get involved. Apple is just being a bit greedy. From bvg at mac.com Mon Aug 26 07:57:21 2013 From: bvg at mac.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 13:57:21 +0200 Subject: How to build webcam application In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <506131A4-5647-4473-A13C-A539B3C1EF10@mac.com> there's existing services for that, like twitch.tv or livestream.com On 26.08.2013, at 01:01, Mark wrote: > Hi all, > I was wondering how to go about building a desktop application that would allow people to watch my band play live at a gig. > These people are not able to attend the gig, so I was thinking that this client and host app would allow them to watch and listen in a live scenario. > > Anyone have any ideas about how to go about this? > > Thanx, > Mark > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Use an alternative Dictionary viewer: http://bjoernke.com/bvgdocu/ Chat with other RunRev developers: http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/ From christer at mindcrea.com Mon Aug 26 08:25:12 2013 From: christer at mindcrea.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Christer_Pyyhti=E4?=) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:25:12 +0300 Subject: Radio / checkbox button scaloing Message-ID: <9A343369-E000-47D9-863C-A6B524D7C3EF@mindcrea.com> What's the way to scale the radio / checkbox buttons according to button label text size? rgds From mazzapaoloitaly at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 08:38:11 2013 From: mazzapaoloitaly at gmail.com (paolo mazza) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 14:38:11 +0200 Subject: How to build webcam application In-Reply-To: <506131A4-5647-4473-A13C-A539B3C1EF10@mac.com> References: <506131A4-5647-4473-A13C-A539B3C1EF10@mac.com> Message-ID: Mark, as far as I know at the moment there are only 2 ways to show a LIVE video streaming in livecode: 1 - use the QuickTime player provided by LiveCode and connect to a QuickTime streaming server using the rtsp protocol 2 - set up a RevBrowser window in you app, open a web page with a player (JVPlayer, FlowPlayer... others) and set the player to receive the live streaming from a streaming server (ie Wowza) The first solution is obsolete because almost nobody use anymore the QuickTime Streaming servers. The second solution gives you limited control and interaction with the video player (you have to use Javascript) . If you want I can send to you some sample stacks. I hope RunRev will provide new tools to handle video streaming. All the best, Paolo Mazza On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > there's existing services for that, like twitch.tv or livestream.com > > On 26.08.2013, at 01:01, Mark wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I was wondering how to go about building a desktop application that would allow people to watch my band play live at a gig. >> These people are not able to attend the gig, so I was thinking that this client and host app would allow them to watch and listen in a live scenario. >> >> Anyone have any ideas about how to go about this? >> >> Thanx, >> Mark >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > -- > > Use an alternative Dictionary viewer: > http://bjoernke.com/bvgdocu/ > > Chat with other RunRev developers: > http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Mon Aug 26 09:29:49 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 09:29:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Radio / checkbox button scaloing In-Reply-To: <9A343369-E000-47D9-863C-A6B524D7C3EF@mindcrea.com> References: <9A343369-E000-47D9-863C-A6B524D7C3EF@mindcrea.com> Message-ID: <8D0707778EB3D7A-85C-11A78@webmail-m279.sysops.aol.com> Hi. Sure. set the width of button "yourButton" to the formattedWidth of button "yourButton" Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Christer Pyyhti? To: use-livecode Sent: Mon, Aug 26, 2013 8:25 am Subject: Radio / checkbox button scaloing What's the way to scale the radio / checkbox buttons according to button label text size? rgds _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 26 12:07:48 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:07:48 -0500 Subject: Any ideas on working out number of characters(approx) that can be entered into a field In-Reply-To: <1377499043105-4669110.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1377499043105-4669110.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <521B7D54.9060202@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/26/13 1:37 AM, planix wrote: > Hi All, > > I am looking for ways to determine the approximate number of characters that > will fit into a text field of fixed height and width. > > I am guessing there is some way of doing this by working with the line > height, font size, and the height and width of the field. Anyone ever had a > need to do this? Or is there an obvious way? It used to be hard to do this, but now we have a function that will tell you exactly what you need, thanks to Jan Schenkel's contribution to the engine. See the "pageRanges" property in the dictionary. It gives a list of character ranges that fit the height of the field. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 12:14:29 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:14:29 +0300 Subject: Wildcards ??? Message-ID: <521B7EE5.2070507@gmail.com> "The find and replace was always using wildcards() even when Use Regular Expressions was false. The find stack has been updated to allow users to choose the type of search from Regular Expressions, Wildcards or Plain Text." What symbols must one use for a wildcard? Richmond. From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 12:22:59 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:22:59 -0500 Subject: Any ideas on working out number of characters(approx) that can be entered into a field In-Reply-To: <521B7D54.9060202@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1377499043105-4669110.post@n4.nabble.com> <521B7D54.9060202@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:07 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > See the "pageRanges" property in the dictionary. It gives a list of > character ranges that fit the height of the field. Crazy question -- what's the benefit of returning a character range instead of a line range? From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 26 12:29:51 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:29:51 -0500 Subject: Any ideas on working out number of characters(approx) that can be entered into a field In-Reply-To: References: <1377499043105-4669110.post@n4.nabble.com> <521B7D54.9060202@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <521B827F.70808@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/26/13 11:22 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:07 AM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > >> See the "pageRanges" property in the dictionary. It gives a list of >> character ranges that fit the height of the field. > > > > Crazy question -- what's the benefit of returning a character range instead > of a line range? You may need to split a long paragraph in the middle. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From janschenkel at yahoo.com Mon Aug 26 12:31:48 2013 From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 09:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Any ideas on working out number of characters(approx) that can be entered into a field In-Reply-To: References: <1377499043105-4669110.post@n4.nabble.com> <521B7D54.9060202@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1377534708.55009.YahooMailNeo@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Because the physical split may happen in the middle of a logical line, if the field is set to wrap. The 'pageRanges' mirrors the 'pageHeights' property in its logic to find out which chunk of the field represents a page. Jan Schenkel. ? ===== Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode www.quartam.com ===== "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." (La Rochefoucauld) >________________________________ > From: Geoff Canyon >To: How to use LiveCode >Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 6:22 PM >Subject: Re: Any ideas on working out number of characters(approx) that can be entered into a field > > >On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:07 AM, J. Landman Gay >wrote: > >> See the "pageRanges" property in the dictionary. It gives a list of >> character ranges that fit the height of the field. > > > >Crazy question -- what's the benefit of returning a character range instead >of a line range? >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > From janschenkel at yahoo.com Mon Aug 26 12:34:06 2013 From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 09:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Wildcards ??? In-Reply-To: <521B7EE5.2070507@gmail.com> References: <521B7EE5.2070507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1377534846.72500.YahooMailNeo@web141103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> See the documentation for the 'filter' command. In its current incarnation, that command uses 'wildcard' expressions to decide which lines to retain and which to discard. HTH, Jan Schenkel ? ===== Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode www.quartam.com ===== "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." (La Rochefoucauld) >________________________________ > From: Richmond >To: How to use LiveCode >Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 6:14 PM >Subject: Wildcards ??? > > >"The find and replace was always using wildcards() even when Use Regular >Expressions was false. The find >stack has been updated to allow users to choose the type of search from >Regular Expressions, Wildcards or >Plain Text." > >What symbols must one use for a wildcard? > >Richmond. > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 26 12:37:24 2013 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 12:37:24 -0400 Subject: Wildcards ??? In-Reply-To: <521B7EE5.2070507@gmail.com> References: <521B7EE5.2070507@gmail.com> Message-ID: * is one such, I know, since that was what caused me to file the bug report to begin with. On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Richmond wrote: > "The find and replace was always using wildcards() even when Use Regular > Expressions was false. The find > stack has been updated to allow users to choose the type of search from > Regular Expressions, Wildcards or > Plain Text." > > What symbols must one use for a wildcard? > > Richmond. > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 12:58:38 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:58:38 -0500 Subject: Any ideas on working out number of characters(approx) that can be entered into a field In-Reply-To: <1377534708.55009.YahooMailNeo@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1377499043105-4669110.post@n4.nabble.com> <521B7D54.9060202@hyperactivesw.com> <1377534708.55009.YahooMailNeo@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ha, of course. The documentation tricked me with its very limited example. On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote: > Because the physical split may happen in the middle of a logical line, if > the field is set to wrap. > The 'pageRanges' mirrors the 'pageHeights' property in its logic to find > out which chunk of the field represents a page. > > Jan Schenkel. > > > ===== > Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode > www.quartam.com > > > ===== > "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." > (La Rochefoucauld) > > > >________________________________ > > From: Geoff Canyon > >To: How to use LiveCode > >Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 6:22 PM > >Subject: Re: Any ideas on working out number of characters(approx) that > can be entered into a field > > > > > >On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:07 AM, J. Landman Gay > >wrote: > > > >> See the "pageRanges" property in the dictionary. It gives a list of > >> character ranges that fit the height of the field. > > > > > > > >Crazy question -- what's the benefit of returning a character range > instead > >of a line range? > >_______________________________________________ > >use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 13:19:20 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 20:19:20 +0300 Subject: Wildcards ??? In-Reply-To: <1377534846.72500.YahooMailNeo@web141103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <521B7EE5.2070507@gmail.com> <1377534846.72500.YahooMailNeo@web141103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <521B8E18.2030701@gmail.com> On 08/26/2013 07:34 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote: > See the documentation for the 'filter' command. > In its current incarnation, that command uses 'wildcard' expressions to decide which lines to retain and which to discard. > > > HTH, > > Jan Schenkel > > > ===== > Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode > www.quartam.com > > > ===== > "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." (La Rochefoucauld) > > >> ________________________________ >> From: Richmond >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 6:14 PM >> Subject: Wildcards ??? >> >> >> "The find and replace was always using wildcards() even when Use Regular >> Expressions was false. The find >> stack has been updated to allow users to choose the type of search from >> Regular Expressions, Wildcards or >> Plain Text." >> >> What symbols must one use for a wildcard? >> >> Richmond. >> >> The reason I asked this question was because I had to do a socking great search and replace through about 5000 lines of code: Yes, you guessed it; Richmond's "Devawriter Pro" won't go away; it just gets bigger and groovier. Now I had all sorts of 'horrible' bits to search for and replace and Livecode didn't do "very well" (coded way of saying something fairly negative) with searching for phrases that had lines breaks in them. I ended up doing everything in LibreOffice (bloody-minded), which was OK as far as things went, but Wildcards weren't in it. Certainly I would like to be able to search for the following sort of phrase: set the unicodeText of the selected to ((numToChar(*)) & (numToChar(*)) & (numToChar(2325)) in such a way that I can replace: ((numToChar(22345)) & (numToChar(66778)) & (numToChar(2325)) with ((numToChar(22345)) & (numToChar(66778)) & (numToChar(4444)) and ((numToChar(99887)) & (numToChar(11223)) & (numToChar(2325)) with ((numToChar(99887)) & (numToChar(11223)) & (numToChar(4444)) that is to say, that the wildcard bits remain unchanged. Richmond. From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 13:42:42 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 10:42:42 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? Message-ID: I thought I had seen references here to using OR with filter (on a container). Is there a way to do this; I can't find it in the docs, and my experiment failed. At the moment, I'm looping around with a repeat and a switch for the regexps. It's not a performance section of the code, but it's *so* ugly, and unmaintainable . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 26 14:12:05 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:12:05 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> Monday, August 26, 2013, 10:42:42 AM, you wrote: > I thought I had seen references here to using OR with filter (on a container). Not yet. It's in the pipeline, though. For now I do something like put tList into tList1 filter tList1 with tExpression1 put tList into tList2 filter tList2 with tExpression2 put tList2 after tList1 -- sort tList1 if desired You can also sometimes get by with filter tList with ".*\.[GJP][IPN][FG]" -- just .gif, .jpg, .png -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 26 15:14:39 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 12:14:39 -0700 Subject: The encoding property Message-ID: If you try to get the encoding of the templatefield, LC aborts with no error message. Getting the encoding of a real field works OK. Happens in 5.5.0, thru 6.1.1(rc3). I realize this is pretty obscure but I do have a need to do this and wondering if anyone else has come across this bug? Pete lcSQL Software From janschenkel at yahoo.com Mon Aug 26 15:18:50 2013 From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 12:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1377544730.13810.YahooMailNeo@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hi Richard et al, My day-job got in the way these past few weeks; half of my team was on holiday and another member just had a new daughter to celebrate. Needless to say I've been plugging all the holes there and didn't have time to do the next set of changes to the 'filter' command. At any rate, for those of you who haven't been following the engine contributors forum, here's what is ready to go in the next functional release: - filtering items (in addition to lines) - regular expression matching (in addition to wildcard matching) - placing the output of the filter into a separate container Don't worry, these additions were implemented in a backward-compatible way :-) The above comes together in the following extended syntax: filter ?[ { lines | items }of ] { with | without | [ not ] matching } [ { wildcard | regex } [ pattern ] ] [ into ] That looks intimidating, so here are a few examples: filter tList with "A*" -- lines which begin with "A" filter tList without empty -- remove all empty lines filter items of tCommaSeparatedList with "A*" -- now you can filter items in addition to lines filter lines of tList matching regex pattern "A.*" -- now you have the full power of regular expressions filter tOriginalList with "A*" into tFilteredList -- now you can direct the output to a different container That's done, so what's next once I find the time? ->?filter by expression filter lines of tList where each begins with "A" and each ends with "Z" filter items of tList where word 2 of each contains "123" or char 3 of each is in "abcd" filter tList by MyLogicalFunction(each) That's the beauty of open source: now we can add features to the engine if we pull up our sleeves... Cheers, Jan Schenkel. ===== Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode www.quartam.com ===== "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." (La Rochefoucauld) >________________________________ > From: Dr. Hawkins >To: How to use LiveCode >Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 7:42 PM >Subject: multiple arguments for filter? > > >I thought I had seen references here to using OR with filter (on a container). > >Is there a way to do this; I can't find it in the docs, and my >experiment failed. > >At the moment, I'm looping around with a repeat and a switch for the >regexps.? It's not a performance section of the code, but it's *so* >ugly, and unmaintainable . . . > >-- >Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. >(702) 508-8462 > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 26 15:45:12 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 12:45:12 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40187502414.20130826124512@ahsoftware.net> Pete- Monday, August 26, 2013, 12:14:39 PM, you wrote: > If you try to get the encoding of the templatefield, LC aborts with no > error message. Getting the encoding of a real field works OK. Happens in > 5.5.0, thru 6.1.1(rc3). > I realize this is pretty obscure but I do have a need to do this and > wondering if anyone else has come across this bug? I haven't come across it, but I can certainly verify it. Have you logged this in bugzilla? It's obscure (which explains why it hasn't come to light yet), but crashes are always serious. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 26 15:47:24 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 12:47:24 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: <1377544730.13810.YahooMailNeo@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1377544730.13810.YahooMailNeo@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15187633973.20130826124724@ahsoftware.net> Jan- Monday, August 26, 2013, 12:18:50 PM, you wrote: > another member just had a new daughter to celebrate. Now *that's* taking celebration to a whole new level. > That's the beauty of open source: now we can add features to the > engine if we pull up our sleeves... Yay for Jan and his lack of sleeves... -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 16:00:41 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 13:00:41 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: <15187633973.20130826124724@ahsoftware.net> References: <1377544730.13810.YahooMailNeo@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <15187633973.20130826124724@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Jan- > > Monday, August 26, 2013, 12:18:50 PM, you wrote: > >> another member just had a new daughter to celebrate. > > Now *that's* taking celebration to a whole new level. Actually, wild celebrations quite often result in new children . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 26 16:12:41 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:12:41 -0500 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <521BB6B9.5040600@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/26/13 2:14 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > If you try to get the encoding of the templatefield, LC aborts with no > error message. Getting the encoding of a real field works OK. Happens in > 5.5.0, thru 6.1.1(rc3). > > I realize this is pretty obscure but I do have a need to do this and > wondering if anyone else has come across this bug? Yeah. Write it up for us? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 26 16:17:00 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:17:00 -0500 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: <1377544730.13810.YahooMailNeo@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1377544730.13810.YahooMailNeo@web141104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <521BB7BC.20501@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/26/13 2:18 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote: > Hi Richard et al, > > My day-job got in the way these past few weeks; half of my team was on holiday and another member just had a new daughter to celebrate. > Needless to say I've been plugging all the holes there and didn't have time to do the next set of changes to the 'filter' command. > > At any rate, for those of you who haven't been following the engine contributors forum, here's what is ready to go in the next functional release: > - filtering items (in addition to lines) > - regular expression matching (in addition to wildcard matching) > - placing the output of the filter into a separate container This is so great Jan! Thank you. I won't comment on anyone's daughter. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 26 16:17:22 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:17:22 -0500 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> References: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/26/13 1:12 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > You can also sometimes get by with > > filter tList with ".*\.[GJP][IPN][FG]" -- just .gif, .jpg, .png > That's pretty clever. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 26 17:00:04 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 14:00:04 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> References: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> Jacque- Monday, August 26, 2013, 1:17:22 PM, you wrote: >> filter tList with ".*\.[GJP][IPN][FG]" -- just .gif, .jpg, .png > That's pretty clever. It is. I'd like to take credit for it, but it's Jerry Daniels' doing. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From userev at canelasoftware.com Mon Aug 26 17:15:37 2013 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 14:15:37 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> References: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <15077C3F-51FD-493C-854E-D5B1DFF7AB4A@canelasoftware.com> On Aug 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Jacque- > > Monday, August 26, 2013, 1:17:22 PM, you wrote: > >>> filter tList with ".*\.[GJP][IPN][FG]" -- just .gif, .jpg, .png > >> That's pretty clever. > > It is. I'd like to take credit for it, but it's Jerry Daniels' doing. Can you clarify the [GJP][IPN][FG]? Are they typos or something new to me? Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 26 17:22:37 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 14:22:37 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: <521BB6B9.5040600@hyperactivesw.com> References: <521BB6B9.5040600@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I've entered bug# 11129 at the QCC. Came across another property that causes the same problem - flaggedRanges. That's also interesting because flaggedRanges is not in the dictionary. I think I'm going to make a simple stack that checks the output of the propertynames against the Bjornke's SQLite db of the dictionary to get a definitive list of properties which have no dictionary entries. Pete lcSQL Software On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:12 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/26/13 2:14 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> If you try to get the encoding of the templatefield, LC aborts with no >> error message. Getting the encoding of a real field works OK. Happens in >> 5.5.0, thru 6.1.1(rc3). >> >> I realize this is pretty obscure but I do have a need to do this and >> wondering if anyone else has come across this bug? >> > > Yeah. Write it up for us? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Aug 26 17:30:01 2013 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 21:30:01 +0000 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: <15077C3F-51FD-493C-854E-D5B1DFF7AB4A@canelasoftware.com> References: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> <15077C3F-51FD-493C-854E-D5B1DFF7AB4A@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: On Aug 26, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: > > On Aug 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > >> Jacque- >> >> Monday, August 26, 2013, 1:17:22 PM, you wrote: >> >>>> filter tList with ".*\.[GJP][IPN][FG]" -- just .gif, .jpg, .png >> >>> That's pretty clever. >> >> It is. I'd like to take credit for it, but it's Jerry Daniels' doing. > > Can you clarify the [GJP][IPN][FG]? Are they typos or something new to me? Mark, I'm no regex expert, but I think what this is saying is: filter the list, including only strings that end with a dot followed by 1st character in [GJP], 2nd character in [IPN], last character in [FG]. Clever indeed. Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 26 17:38:49 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:38:49 -0500 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: References: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> <15077C3F-51FD-493C-854E-D5B1DFF7AB4A@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <521BCAE9.9050309@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/26/13 4:30 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > > On Aug 26, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: > >> >> On Aug 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: >> >>> Jacque- >>> >>> Monday, August 26, 2013, 1:17:22 PM, you wrote: >>> >>>>> filter tList with ".*\.[GJP][IPN][FG]" -- just .gif, .jpg, .png >>> >>>> That's pretty clever. >>> >>> It is. I'd like to take credit for it, but it's Jerry Daniels' doing. >> >> Can you clarify the [GJP][IPN][FG]? Are they typos or something new to me? > > > Mark, > > I'm no regex expert, but I think what this is saying is: > > filter the list, including only strings that end with a dot followed by 1st character in [GJP], 2nd character in [IPN], last character in [FG]. > > Clever indeed. It will also catch ".JIF". We hope no one has files with extension "PIG". ".GIG" is optional. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 26 17:41:10 2013 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:41:10 -0500 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: References: <521BB6B9.5040600@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <521BCB76.6030905@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/26/13 4:22 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I've entered bug# 11129 at the QCC. > > Came across another property that causes the same problem - flaggedRanges. It may crash on other unicode-related functions too. I was crashing all over the place trying to use the template field to parse and revise unicode, but I don't remember now which terms did it. If I ever get the energy to try it again I'll add to the report. Thanks for doing that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 26 17:46:03 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 14:46:03 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: References: <521BB6B9.5040600@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Here's the list of entries in propertynames that have no matching entry in the dictionary. There's quite a few understandable omissions such as "abbrev", "english","system"(why are they in the propertynames?). Maybe I should put this into a QCC report? _hscrollbarid _ideoverride _unplacedgroupids _vscrollbarid abbr abbrev abbreviated breakpoints columndel compositorstatistics controlids controlnames currentcard debugcontext deferscreenupdates desktop detailed documents effective engine english fillback flaggedranges formattedstyledtext home iconmenu internet lockupdates long lzwkey messagemessages printrect processtype referringstack revavailablehandlers revavailablevariables revcrashreportsettings revlicenseinfo revlicenselimits revmessageboxlastobject revmessageboxredirect revobjectlisteners revpropertylistenerthrottle revruntimebehaviour revunplacedgroupids rowdel savecompressed screen scriptexecutionerrors scriptparsingerrors securitycategories securitypermissions short statusicon statusiconmenu statusicontooltip system tabalign temporary traceabort traceuntil unicodeacceleratortext urlresponse watchedvariables working Pete lcSQL Software On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I've entered bug# 11129 at the QCC. > > Came across another property that causes the same problem - flaggedRanges. > > > That's also interesting because flaggedRanges is not in the dictionary. > > I think I'm going to make a simple stack that checks the output of the > propertynames against the Bjornke's SQLite db of the dictionary to get a > definitive list of properties which have no dictionary entries. > > > > Pete > lcSQL Software > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:12 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 8/26/13 2:14 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: >> >>> If you try to get the encoding of the templatefield, LC aborts with no >>> error message. Getting the encoding of a real field works OK. Happens >>> in >>> 5.5.0, thru 6.1.1(rc3). >>> >>> I realize this is pretty obscure but I do have a need to do this and >>> wondering if anyone else has come across this bug? >>> >> >> Yeah. Write it up for us? >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From userev at canelasoftware.com Mon Aug 26 18:00:18 2013 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:00:18 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: References: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> <15077C3F-51FD-493C-854E-D5B1DFF7AB4A@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <909505F8-7852-4D59-AB49-8E3118B132AC@canelasoftware.com> On Aug 26, 2013, at 2:30 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > Mark, > > I'm no regex expert, but I think what this is saying is: > > filter the list, including only strings that end with a dot followed by 1st character in [GJP], 2nd character in [IPN], last character in [FG]. > > Clever indeed. > > Devin Ahhh?I get it. I totally missed that. Very cool! Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com From bvg at mac.com Mon Aug 26 18:06:00 2013 From: bvg at mac.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 00:06:00 +0200 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: References: <521BB6B9.5040600@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: i think your list is overzealous. For example considering "abbr", "abbrev", "abbreviated" (from teh abbreviated docu entry): Note: The abbreviated keyword is implemented internally as a property, and appears in the propertyNames. However, it cannot be used as a property in an expression, nor with the set command. There's quite a few of these kewyord-properties maybe try to match against all entries, not just property entries? What about desktop, are you sure that's not supposed to be "desktop folder" (various folders: engine, documents, etc.)? Statusicons (and it's entourage) are marked as "beta" in the releasenotes (been like that for years). Said all that, there's certainly valid ones, like columndel (rowdel), because it's a valid syntax but not documented. But I suggest you weed the list down manually. On 26.08.2013, at 23:46, Peter Haworth wrote: > Here's the list of entries in propertynames that have no matching entry in > the dictionary. There's quite a few understandable omissions such as > "abbrev", "english","system"(why are they in the propertynames?). Maybe I > should put this into a QCC report? > > _hscrollbarid > _ideoverride > _unplacedgroupids > _vscrollbarid > abbr > abbrev > abbreviated > breakpoints > columndel > compositorstatistics > controlids > controlnames > currentcard > debugcontext > deferscreenupdates > desktop > detailed > documents > effective > engine > english > fillback > flaggedranges > formattedstyledtext > home > iconmenu > internet > lockupdates > long > lzwkey > messagemessages > printrect > processtype > referringstack > revavailablehandlers > revavailablevariables > revcrashreportsettings > revlicenseinfo > revlicenselimits > revmessageboxlastobject > revmessageboxredirect > revobjectlisteners > revpropertylistenerthrottle > revruntimebehaviour > revunplacedgroupids > rowdel > savecompressed > screen > scriptexecutionerrors > scriptparsingerrors > securitycategories > securitypermissions > short > statusicon > statusiconmenu > statusicontooltip > system > tabalign > temporary > traceabort > traceuntil > unicodeacceleratortext > urlresponse > watchedvariables > working > > > Pete > lcSQL Software > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> I've entered bug# 11129 at the QCC. >> >> Came across another property that causes the same problem - flaggedRanges. >> >> >> That's also interesting because flaggedRanges is not in the dictionary. >> >> I think I'm going to make a simple stack that checks the output of the >> propertynames against the Bjornke's SQLite db of the dictionary to get a >> definitive list of properties which have no dictionary entries. >> >> >> >> Pete >> lcSQL Software >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:12 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> On 8/26/13 2:14 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: >>> >>>> If you try to get the encoding of the templatefield, LC aborts with no >>>> error message. Getting the encoding of a real field works OK. Happens >>>> in >>>> 5.5.0, thru 6.1.1(rc3). >>>> >>>> I realize this is pretty obscure but I do have a need to do this and >>>> wondering if anyone else has come across this bug? >>>> >>> >>> Yeah. Write it up for us? >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Use an alternative Dictionary viewer: http://bjoernke.com/bvgdocu/ Chat with other RunRev developers: http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/ From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 18:15:29 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:15:29 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: <521BCAE9.9050309@hyperactivesw.com> References: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> <15077C3F-51FD-493C-854E-D5B1DFF7AB4A@canelasoftware.com> <521BCAE9.9050309@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:38 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > It will also catch ".JIF". We hope no one has files with extension "PIG". > ".GIG" is optional. This was my reaction, too. WHy not ".*\(GIF|gif|PNG|png|JPG|jpg|\)" -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 26 18:27:01 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:27:01 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: <521BCAE9.9050309@hyperactivesw.com> References: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> <15077C3F-51FD-493C-854E-D5B1DFF7AB4A@canelasoftware.com> <521BCAE9.9050309@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <21197210961.20130826152701@ahsoftware.net> Jacque- Monday, August 26, 2013, 2:38:49 PM, you wrote: > On 8/26/13 4:30 PM, Devin Asay wrote: >> >> On Aug 26, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: >> >>> >>> On Aug 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Mark Wieder >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Jacque- >>>> >>>> Monday, August 26, 2013, 1:17:22 PM, you wrote: >>>> >>>>>> filter tList with ".*\.[GJP][IPN][FG]" -- just .gif, .jpg, .png >>>> >>>>> That's pretty clever. >>>> >>>> It is. I'd like to take credit for it, but it's Jerry Daniels' doing. >>> >>> Can you clarify the [GJP][IPN][FG]? Are they typos or something new to me? >> >> >> Mark, >> >> I'm no regex expert, but I think what this is saying is: >> >> filter the list, including only strings that end with a dot >> followed by 1st character in [GJP], 2nd character in [IPN], last >> character in [FG]. >> >> Clever indeed. > It will also catch ".JIF". We hope no one has files with extension > "PIG". ".GIG" is optional. Well, I did hedge my bets by saying "sometimes"... the one that might cause a problem here is "GPG". -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 26 18:36:46 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:36:46 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: References: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> <15077C3F-51FD-493C-854E-D5B1DFF7AB4A@canelasoftware.com> <521BCAE9.9050309@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <186197796474.20130826153646@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Monday, August 26, 2013, 3:15:29 PM, you wrote: > This was my reaction, too. WHy not ".*\(GIF|gif|PNG|png|JPG|jpg|\)" Jan's working on it. Give it time. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 26 18:45:54 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:45:54 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> References: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <12198344468.20130826154554@ahsoftware.net> Mark- Monday, August 26, 2013, 2:00:04 PM, you wrote: >>> filter tList with ".*\.[GJP][IPN][FG]" -- just .gif, .jpg, .png Oops. I really meant to type "*.[GJP][IPN][FG]" -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 26 19:13:53 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:13:53 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: References: <521BB6B9.5040600@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > i think your list is overzealous. For example considering "abbr", > "abbrev", "abbreviated" (from teh abbreviated docu entry): > > Note: The abbreviated keyword is implemented internally as a property, and > appears in the propertyNames. However, it cannot be used as a property in > an expression, nor with the set command. > Yep, I alluded to that in my earlier post. > > There's quite a few of these kewyord-properties maybe try to match against > all entries, not just property entries? > I see they're categorized as "keyword" in the dictionary so I'll check for that as well as property. Which reminds me - is there a way to get a list of LC keywords? > > What about desktop, are you sure that's not supposed to be "desktop > folder" (various folders: engine, documents, etc.)? > propertynames includes "desktop" but not "desktop folder" > > Statusicons (and it's entourage) are marked as "beta" in the releasenotes > (been like that for years). > Maybe they should be removed from the propertynames? I noticed "tabalign" in there too - it was mentioned in a recent post on the ability to define right-aligned tabs. Seems like properties which have not been implemented shouldn;t be in propertynames. > > > Said all that, there's certainly valid ones, like columndel (rowdel), > because it's a valid syntax but not documented. But I suggest you weed the > list down manually It was very quick to get the initial list thanks to your db and I will change my script to look for keywords as well as properties but narrowing it down manually requires time I don't have. Maybe someone at RunRev will use the list as a starting point to get the dictionary up to date at some point. I guess it's possible that there are valid properties that aren't included in the propertynames and I have no idea how to deal with that.. At the end of the day, what I need is a complete list of the valid properties for each LC object. I appreciate that's a fairly unusual requirement and I know there have been discussions on the engine forum about this and it's apparently not as easy as it might seem. In the meantime, the method I'm using (issuing a get the of the templateField/Button,Stack/Card.etc within a try/catch block for each line in the propertynames) is the closest I can get and takes 100 milliseconds to execute so maybe that's the way to do it in the engine. > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 26 19:42:05 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:42:05 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <521BE7CD.7030508@fourthworld.com> Peter - Not all properties are available for all object types; indeed, many are global properties. What is your goal, and is "the properties" the best way to reach it? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 26 18:06:16 2013 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:06:16 +1000 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: References: <521BB6B9.5040600@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <764D8276-7471-4C41-996D-9AC263422D7B@sweattechnologies.com> On 27/08/2013, at 7:46 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > Here's the list of entries in propertynames that have no matching entry in > the dictionary. There's quite a few understandable omissions such as > "abbrev", "english","system"(why are they in the propertynames?). Maybe I > should put this into a QCC report? The current implementation of the propertyNames is heavily integrated into the parser so I think what you are seeing is the result of using workarounds to get the desired syntax. I suspect that the engine treats abbrev as a property then looks ahead to find out what it's abbrev of... Given that script parsing is changing significantly in the near future I'd hazard a guess that this might get a cleanup. There's also quite a few IDE only properties in the list which should probably be documented separately rather than in the regular dictionary. However, given the engine itself is virtually undocumented it wouldn't surprise me it that never happens... Chers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 26 20:49:05 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 17:49:05 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: <521BE7CD.7030508@fourthworld.com> References: <521BE7CD.7030508@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: My goal is to get a list of the valid property names for each Livecode object (stack, card, field, etc) I'm not using "the properties" because it does not return a complete list of property names. So my solution, in pseudo code is: for each propertyname in the propertynames Get the propertyname of the templateStack If no error, add propertyname to the list of valid stack properties Repeat the last two steps for the templateCard, templateField, etc Seems to work and takes only 100 msecs, but if there's a more straightforward way I'm more than happy to hear of it. I'm taking it one step further to figure out which properties are read-only by executing "set the of the templatexxxxx to the of the templatexxxx" in a try/catch loop. If I get error code 361, it means the property cannot be set. There are a few other errors I have to deal with but that's essentially it. The final step I'd really like to take is to get a list of the synonyms, if any, for each property. I had hoped to use Bjornke's db for that since there is a synonyms column. However, the data in it seems to include some non-displaying chars plus it's not very reliable - e.g. some properties name themselves as a synonym. None of that is Bjornke's fault, it's just the weird format of the dictionary. Still working on ways round that. Pete lcSQL Software On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter - > > Not all properties are available for all object types; indeed, many are > global properties. > > What is your goal, and is "the properties" the best way to reach it? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 26 20:49:17 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 17:49:17 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: <521BCB76.6030905@hyperactivesw.com> References: <521BB6B9.5040600@hyperactivesw.com> <521BCB76.6030905@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi Jacque, Those are the only two my script crashed on. I was getting the of the templateField, where is a line from the propertynames, executed within a try/catch block in an attempt to get a full list of properties for a filed, button, stack, card, etc. Some got caught in the catch statement of course but encoding and flaggedRanges were the only ones that caused an abort. Pete lcSQL Software On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:41 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/26/13 4:22 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> I've entered bug# 11129 at the QCC. >> >> Came across another property that causes the same problem - flaggedRanges. >> > > It may crash on other unicode-related functions too. I was crashing all > over the place trying to use the template field to parse and revise > unicode, but I don't remember now which terms did it. If I ever get the > energy to try it again I'll add to the report. Thanks for doing that. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 26 21:06:12 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 18:06:12 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <521BFB84.4000108@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > My goal is to get a list of the valid property names for each Livecode > object (stack, card, field, etc) I don't mean to sound pedantic, but serious question: what is your goal with that? Sometimes in our imperfect world we find limitations in the engine, and a hard-wired list can get the job done almost immediately, allowing us to move on to other important tasks. True, this would require maintenance as properties change, but in the absence of any simple solution it may actually save time over trying to find an automated solution. Having built a few property inspectors over the years, I use a mix of "the properties" of the selectedObject + a few hand-crafted things not normally included there. Sure, it's imperfect, but it let me get it done. :) But of course the usefulness of a manual solution will depend on how it's used, hence my opening question. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 26 21:49:20 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 18:49:20 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: <521BFB84.4000108@fourthworld.com> References: <521BFB84.4000108@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 6:06 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I don't mean to sound pedantic, but serious question: what is your goal > with that? This is for the next release of my lcStackBrowser plugin. It will include the ability to display and edit properties within the main lcStackBrowser window. As part of that functionality, users can define property groups to include whatever properties they wish. In turn, that is achieved by drag/drop from a list of properties for an object type to a list of properties within each of their property groups they specify. Hope that explains the final goal :-) At the moment, I am using a similar technique to yours where I start of by getting the keys of the properties than add in a hard coded list of missing properties for the object. That's OK but suffers from the downside that every time a new release of LC comes out with new properties that perhaps is not included in "the properties" (and there have been quite a few recently), my list is out of date and I would have to put out a new release simply to include the new properties. The issue of synonyms is part of but separate from all that. I have now figured out how to get a list of the synonyms for any given property from Bjornke's db (what an invaluable plugin!), at least to the extent that the information in the dictionary is accurate. Pete lcSQL Software From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 22:00:28 2013 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:00:28 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: <186197796474.20130826153646@ahsoftware.net> References: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> <15077C3F-51FD-493C-854E-D5B1DFF7AB4A@canelasoftware.com> <521BCAE9.9050309@hyperactivesw.com> <186197796474.20130826153646@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Monday, August 26, 2013, 3:15:29 PM, you wrote: > >> This was my reaction, too. WHy not ".*\(GIF|gif|PNG|png|JPG|jpg|\)" > > Jan's working on it. Give it time. Oh, I'll happily wait. I just thought that it was supposed to be a regexp. Will the other work now? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 26 22:14:13 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:14:13 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: <764D8276-7471-4C41-996D-9AC263422D7B@sweattechnologies.com> References: <521BB6B9.5040600@hyperactivesw.com> <764D8276-7471-4C41-996D-9AC263422D7B@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Thanks Monte. I noticed the IDE props (the ones beginning with "rev" I think). Will be interesting to see how things shape up after the parser rewrite. Pete lcSQL Software On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > On 27/08/2013, at 7:46 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > Here's the list of entries in propertynames that have no matching entry > in > > the dictionary. There's quite a few understandable omissions such as > > "abbrev", "english","system"(why are they in the propertynames?). Maybe > I > > should put this into a QCC report? > > > The current implementation of the propertyNames is heavily integrated into > the parser so I think what you are seeing is the result of using > workarounds to get the desired syntax. I suspect that the engine treats > abbrev as a property then looks ahead to find out what it's abbrev of... > Given that script parsing is changing significantly in the near future I'd > hazard a guess that this might get a cleanup. > > There's also quite a few IDE only properties in the list which should > probably be documented separately rather than in the regular dictionary. > However, given the engine itself is virtually undocumented it wouldn't > surprise me it that never happens... > > Chers > > -- > Monte Goulding > > M E R Goulding - software development services > mergExt - There's an external for that! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 22:53:13 2013 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 10:53:13 +0800 Subject: Wildcards ??? In-Reply-To: <521B8E18.2030701@gmail.com> References: <521B7EE5.2070507@gmail.com> <1377534846.72500.YahooMailNeo@web141103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <521B8E18.2030701@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you really want to do Search & Replace based on patterns, you could write your own script in LC using matchText() but it would probably be faster and easier to confirm that correct replaces were taking place if, on OS X, you used the FREE TextWrangler & grep: http://www.barebones.com/support/Textwrangler/updates.html You'll be glad to know that this link takes you to where you can download older versions, including PPC. Write a simple script to repeat through all the objects of your stack and if their script is not empty then output the object long name* and it's script to a single file. Open in TextWrangler and a quick grep will have all those replaces done in no time. Although it does have a 'Replace All' option, when it comes to scripts and other important data I always step through each and every replace - I'm always amazed how often there is a case where it idenfies text to replace but it's the odd man out and I don't want it replaced. The only gotcha, which I'm sure you're well aware of, is that all those parentheses must be be escaped - standard grep stuff. You could even write a simple script to read the amended file back into LC, Repeat for Each Line, matchText(a line that clearly is an object long name) then read in the script until you get to the next long name, then set the script of the previous long name* to the lines you've just read. * Not that you wouldn't do this, but more for any newbies reading; before doing this, duplicate your stack, Close and Remove from Memory the original stack, then do everything with the duplicate, then the long names will all correlate correctly. All pretty basic LC stuff for a man of your scripting talents :-) HTH On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 1:19 AM, Richmond wrote: > On 08/26/2013 07:34 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote: > >> See the documentation for the 'filter' command. >> In its current incarnation, that command uses 'wildcard' expressions to >> decide which lines to retain and which to discard. >> >> >> HTH, >> >> Jan Schenkel >> >> ===== >> Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode >> www.quartam.com >> >> >> ===== >> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." >> (La Rochefoucauld) >> >> >> ______________________________**__ >>> From: Richmond >>> To: How to use LiveCode >>> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 6:14 PM >>> Subject: Wildcards ??? >>> >>> >>> "The find and replace was always using wildcards() even when Use Regular >>> Expressions was false. The find >>> stack has been updated to allow users to choose the type of search from >>> Regular Expressions, Wildcards or >>> Plain Text." >>> >>> What symbols must one use for a wildcard? >>> >>> Richmond. >>> >>> >>> > The reason I asked this question was because I had to do a socking great > search and replace > through about 5000 lines of code: > > Yes, you guessed it; Richmond's "Devawriter Pro" won't go away; it just > gets bigger and groovier. > > Now I had all sorts of 'horrible' bits to search for and replace and > Livecode didn't do "very well" > (coded way of saying something fairly negative) with searching for phrases > that had lines breaks in them. > > I ended up doing everything in LibreOffice (bloody-minded), which was OK > as far as things went, > but Wildcards weren't in it. > > Certainly I would like to be able to search for the following sort of > phrase: > > set the unicodeText of the selected to ((numToChar(*)) & (numToChar(*)) & > (numToChar(2325)) > > in such a way that I can replace: > > ((numToChar(22345)) & (numToChar(66778)) & (numToChar(2325)) with > > ((numToChar(22345)) & (numToChar(66778)) & (numToChar(4444)) > > and > > ((numToChar(99887)) & (numToChar(11223)) & (numToChar(2325)) with > > ((numToChar(99887)) & (numToChar(11223)) & (numToChar(4444)) > > that is to say, that the wildcard bits remain unchanged. > > > Richmond. > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From christer at mindcrea.com Tue Aug 27 01:09:30 2013 From: christer at mindcrea.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Christer_Pyyhti=E4?=) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:09:30 +0300 Subject: Radio / checkbox button scaloing Message-ID: <9C60BFA4-0CE6-4C27-8D64-10C569461191@mindcrea.com> No, does not work (from msg command). From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 27 01:21:18 2013 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 22:21:18 -0700 Subject: multiple arguments for filter? In-Reply-To: References: <156181915371.20130826111205@ahsoftware.net> <521BB7D2.4000809@hyperactivesw.com> <194191994157.20130826140004@ahsoftware.net> <15077C3F-51FD-493C-854E-D5B1DFF7AB4A@canelasoftware.com> <521BCAE9.9050309@hyperactivesw.com> <186197796474.20130826153646@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <8222067881.20130826222118@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Monday, August 26, 2013, 7:00:28 PM, you wrote: > Oh, I'll happily wait. I just thought that it was supposed to be a > regexp. Will the other work now? The filter command doesn't work with regex statements yet. The adjusted form I posted will work because the filter command uses strings that are *almost* regex, but are not in significantly frustrating ways. This works: filter tList with "*.[gjp][ipn][fg]" -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From christer at mindcrea.com Tue Aug 27 02:00:03 2013 From: christer at mindcrea.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Christer_Pyyhti=E4?=) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:00:03 +0300 Subject: Radio / checkbox button scaloing Message-ID: <0D38FF74-5A5D-4876-B7EB-9D095B8E8A92@mindcrea.com> Does not work from script either. Can you demonstrate it? I think the best way is to build own tick box system. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 02:49:41 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:49:41 +0300 Subject: Wildcards ??? In-Reply-To: References: <521B7EE5.2070507@gmail.com> <1377534846.72500.YahooMailNeo@web141103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <521B8E18.2030701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <521C4C05.9040206@gmail.com> On 08/27/2013 05:53 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > If you really want to do Search & Replace based on patterns, you could > write your own script in LC using matchText() but it would probably be > faster and easier to confirm that correct replaces were taking place if, on > OS X, you used the FREE TextWrangler & grep: > > http://www.barebones.com/support/Textwrangler/updates.html Thank you! I "know and love" TextWrangler, having used it ever since the demise of the free version of BBedit, and having used that since about 1998. On a Mac that's great; but, with the exception of some very 'focussed' work, I do all my stuff on Linux, and, as yet, am unaware of a Linux equivalent to TextWrangler. > > You'll be glad to know that this link takes you to where you can download > older versions, including PPC. > > Write a simple script to repeat through all the objects of your stack and > if their script is not empty then output the object long name* and it's > script to a single file. Open in TextWrangler and a quick grep will have > all those replaces done in no time. Although it does have a 'Replace All' > option, when it comes to scripts and other important data I always step > through each and every replace - I'm always amazed how often there is a > case where it idenfies text to replace but it's the odd man out and I don't > want it replaced. The only gotcha, which I'm sure you're well aware of, is > that all those parentheses must be be escaped - standard grep stuff. > > You could even write a simple script to read the amended file back into LC, > Repeat for Each Line, matchText(a line that clearly is an object long name) > then read in the script until you get to the next long name, then set the > script of the previous long name* to the lines you've just read. > > * Not that you wouldn't do this, but more for any newbies reading; before > doing this, duplicate your stack, Close and Remove from Memory the original > stack, then do everything with the duplicate, then the long names will all > correlate correctly. > > All pretty basic LC stuff for a man of your scripting talents :-) > > HTH > > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 1:19 AM, Richmond wrote: > >> On 08/26/2013 07:34 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote: >> >>> See the documentation for the 'filter' command. >>> In its current incarnation, that command uses 'wildcard' expressions to >>> decide which lines to retain and which to discard. >>> >>> >>> HTH, >>> >>> Jan Schenkel >>> >>> ===== >>> Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode >>> www.quartam.com >>> >>> >>> ===== >>> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." >>> (La Rochefoucauld) >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**__ >>>> From: Richmond >>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 6:14 PM >>>> Subject: Wildcards ??? >>>> >>>> >>>> "The find and replace was always using wildcards() even when Use Regular >>>> Expressions was false. The find >>>> stack has been updated to allow users to choose the type of search from >>>> Regular Expressions, Wildcards or >>>> Plain Text." >>>> >>>> What symbols must one use for a wildcard? >>>> >>>> Richmond. >>>> >>>> >>>> >> The reason I asked this question was because I had to do a socking great >> search and replace >> through about 5000 lines of code: >> >> Yes, you guessed it; Richmond's "Devawriter Pro" won't go away; it just >> gets bigger and groovier. >> >> Now I had all sorts of 'horrible' bits to search for and replace and >> Livecode didn't do "very well" >> (coded way of saying something fairly negative) with searching for phrases >> that had lines breaks in them. >> >> I ended up doing everything in LibreOffice (bloody-minded), which was OK >> as far as things went, >> but Wildcards weren't in it. >> >> Certainly I would like to be able to search for the following sort of >> phrase: >> >> set the unicodeText of the selected to ((numToChar(*)) & (numToChar(*)) & >> (numToChar(2325)) >> >> in such a way that I can replace: >> >> ((numToChar(22345)) & (numToChar(66778)) & (numToChar(2325)) with >> >> ((numToChar(22345)) & (numToChar(66778)) & (numToChar(4444)) >> >> and >> >> ((numToChar(99887)) & (numToChar(11223)) & (numToChar(2325)) with >> >> ((numToChar(99887)) & (numToChar(11223)) & (numToChar(4444)) >> >> that is to say, that the wildcard bits remain unchanged. >> >> >> Richmond. >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mazzapaoloitaly at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 03:50:48 2013 From: mazzapaoloitaly at gmail.com (paolo mazza) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:50:48 +0200 Subject: How to build webcam application In-Reply-To: <506131A4-5647-4473-A13C-A539B3C1EF10@mac.com> References: <506131A4-5647-4473-A13C-A539B3C1EF10@mac.com> Message-ID: Bj?rnke to set up a live videostreaming you can use these services (twitch.tv, livestream.com ..) or manage a streaming server by yourself ( ie Wowza). But the point is, how can you have a LiveCode desktop application to show a live video streaming? AFAIK the old QuickTime player can not manage live video streaming nor from Twitch.tv nor from Livestream.com. Am I right? So, at the moment, the only available solution is opening a web page with revBrowser. I think runRev should provide a brand new video player (using HTML5). Best regards Paolo On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > there's existing services for that, like twitch.tv or livestream.com > > On 26.08.2013, at 01:01, Mark wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I was wondering how to go about building a desktop application that would allow people to watch my band play live at a gig. >> These people are not able to attend the gig, so I was thinking that this client and host app would allow them to watch and listen in a live scenario. >> >> Anyone have any ideas about how to go about this? >> >> Thanx, >> Mark >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > -- > > Use an alternative Dictionary viewer: > http://bjoernke.com/bvgdocu/ > > Chat with other RunRev developers: > http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 04:56:55 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 11:56:55 +0300 Subject: Search & Replace with lf and/cr Message-ID: <521C69D7.2020803@gmail.com> This is a really hard nut to crack: I have a very long script that features lines that end like this: & numToChar(2325)) and lines that end like this & numToChar(2325)) the top example is followed by a line that starts with "set", and the lower example is followed by "break": & numToChar(2325)) set & numToChar(2325)) break now I want to "mess around with" the lower type of script line and NOT the upper one. AS the script contains somewhere over 5000 lines, and about 50 of those sort of lines that need to be operated on I don't feel a high level of motivation to go through the thing line by line . . . . . . if I have to I will (the blasted thing is mission critical) . . . Tried to do the above in LibreOffice and as soon as I pasted the lower phrase into the search box it turned the thing into & numToChar(2325)) break i.e. stripped out the linefeed. Obviously that is no good. I would be extremely grateful for any constructive help. [ for choice I would prefer to work on Linux; however I have access to Mac 10.6 and Windows XP and 7 should the need arise ]. Richmond. From alex at tweedly.net Tue Aug 27 04:58:07 2013 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:58:07 +0100 Subject: Variable scope in Server mode Message-ID: <521C6A1F.8090702@tweedly.net> I don't understand the scope rules for variables in LCServer (either that or I've found a bug that is confusing me :-) I expected that variables which were (implicitly) declared and set within a script would be available within that script, and within handlers of that script (i.e. like script locals in a normal stack script). So in the normal case I have a file (mainfile1.lc) which has " & CR on plang pD put "main file in handler" && the number of lines in the keys of lang & "
" & CR end plang plang "a" ?> and, as expected, that produces main file direct 2 main file in handler 2 However, if I take the two 'put' statements, and place them in a file, which I then include into my file, I get within some file 2 main file direct 2 main file in handler 0 mainfile2.lc " & CR on plang pD put "main file in handler" && the number of lines in the keys of lang & "
" & CR end plang plang "a" ?> somefile.lc " & cr I have (repeatedly) read the dictionary entry for 'local', but can't make enough sense of it to explain this behaviour - either why it should happen, or to be sure that it shouldn't happen :-) Any help much appreciated, thanks. -- Alex. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 05:20:46 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 12:20:46 +0300 Subject: Search & Replace with lf and/cr In-Reply-To: <521C69D7.2020803@gmail.com> References: <521C69D7.2020803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <521C6F6E.1080405@gmail.com> Hey: nothing new round these parts: Richmond replying to his own message. This is one of those moments when I want to shout "Hallelujah" from the roof tops . . . I have just discovered KOMODO EDIT: http://www.activestate.com/komodo-edit and it really rocked my socks as it allows a multiline search and replace. Woo-Hoo, Yabba-Dabba-Do :) Cannot recommend it enough. Richmond. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 08/27/2013 11:56 AM, Richmond wrote: > This is a really hard nut to crack: > > I have a very long script that features lines that end like this: > > & numToChar(2325)) > > and lines that end like this > > & numToChar(2325)) > > the top example is followed by a line that starts with "set", > and the lower example is followed by "break": > > & numToChar(2325)) > set > > & numToChar(2325)) > break > > now I want to "mess around with" the lower type of script line and NOT > the upper one. > > AS the script contains somewhere over 5000 lines, and about 50 of > those sort of lines > that need to be operated on I don't feel a high level of motivation to > go through > the thing line by line . . . > > . . . if I have to I will (the blasted thing is mission critical) . . . > > Tried to do the above in LibreOffice and as soon as I pasted the lower > phrase into the search box it turned the thing into > > & numToChar(2325)) break > > i.e. stripped out the linefeed. Obviously that is no good. > > I would be extremely grateful for any constructive help. > > [ for choice I would prefer to work on Linux; however I have access to > Mac 10.6 and Windows XP and 7 should the need arise ]. > > Richmond. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Tue Aug 27 05:21:40 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 11:21:40 +0200 Subject: Search & Replace with lf and/cr In-Reply-To: <521C69D7.2020803@gmail.com> References: <521C69D7.2020803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3498C4DA-097F-4CCF-B1AB-3356CA99D58D@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Richmond, I don't understand why this is a poblem and why you would try this in LibreOffice. put the script of myControl into myScript replace ")" & break with ")" & cr & "beep" & cr & "break" in myScript set the script of myControl to myScript put the result into rslt if rslt is not empty then beep answer error rslt end if You could also put the script into a field and write more complex scripts to edit that script before you set the script of the control. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. On 27 aug 2013, at 10:56, Richmond wrote: > This is a really hard nut to crack: > > I have a very long script that features lines that end like this: > > & numToChar(2325)) > > and lines that end like this > > & numToChar(2325)) > > the top example is followed by a line that starts with "set", > and the lower example is followed by "break": > > & numToChar(2325)) > set > > & numToChar(2325)) > break > > now I want to "mess around with" the lower type of script line and NOT > the upper one. > > AS the script contains somewhere over 5000 lines, and about 50 of those sort of lines > that need to be operated on I don't feel a high level of motivation to go through > the thing line by line . . . > > . . . if I have to I will (the blasted thing is mission critical) . . . > > Tried to do the above in LibreOffice and as soon as I pasted the lower > phrase into the search box it turned the thing into > > & numToChar(2325)) break > > i.e. stripped out the linefeed. Obviously that is no good. > > I would be extremely grateful for any constructive help. > > [ for choice I would prefer to work on Linux; however I have access to Mac 10.6 and Windows XP and 7 should the need arise ]. > > Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 05:33:30 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 12:33:30 +0300 Subject: Search & Replace with lf and/cr In-Reply-To: <3498C4DA-097F-4CCF-B1AB-3356CA99D58D@economy-x-talk.com> References: <521C69D7.2020803@gmail.com> <3498C4DA-097F-4CCF-B1AB-3356CA99D58D@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <521C726A.6000202@gmail.com> On 08/27/2013 12:21 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Hi Richmond, > > I don't understand why this is a poblem and why you would try this in LibreOffice. > > put the script of myControl into myScript > replace ")" & break with ")" & cr & "beep" & cr & "break" in myScript > set the script of myControl to myScript > put the result into rslt > if rslt is not empty then > beep > answer error rslt > end if > > You could also put the script into a field and write more complex scripts to edit that script before you set the script of the control. Actually, in the light of what I have found I can do with Komodo Edit even that seems cumbersome. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. > > > > > > > On 27 aug 2013, at 10:56, Richmond wrote: > >> This is a really hard nut to crack: >> >> I have a very long script that features lines that end like this: >> >> & numToChar(2325)) >> >> and lines that end like this >> >> & numToChar(2325)) >> >> the top example is followed by a line that starts with "set", >> and the lower example is followed by "break": >> >> & numToChar(2325)) >> set >> >> & numToChar(2325)) >> break >> >> now I want to "mess around with" the lower type of script line and NOT >> the upper one. >> >> AS the script contains somewhere over 5000 lines, and about 50 of those sort of lines >> that need to be operated on I don't feel a high level of motivation to go through >> the thing line by line . . . >> >> . . . if I have to I will (the blasted thing is mission critical) . . . >> >> Tried to do the above in LibreOffice and as soon as I pasted the lower >> phrase into the search box it turned the thing into >> >> & numToChar(2325)) break >> >> i.e. stripped out the linefeed. Obviously that is no good. >> >> I would be extremely grateful for any constructive help. >> >> [ for choice I would prefer to work on Linux; however I have access to Mac 10.6 and Windows XP and 7 should the need arise ]. >> >> Richmond. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk Tue Aug 27 06:49:45 2013 From: michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk (Michael Kristensen) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 12:49:45 +0200 Subject: Strange behavior of files() Message-ID: <0689EF80-7A69-42E6-B9B5-2610CA7B095F@dsa-net.dk> Hi there I have a folder with 1347 jpg files they are sequently named xxxxxxxx 0001.JPG xxxxxxxx 0002.JPG xxxxxxxx 0003.JPG ... xxxxxxxx 1345.JPG xxxxxxxx 1346.JPG xxxxxxxx 1347.JPG Strangely the files() function return a list omitting the first two and the last two. Thus the list start with xxxxxxxx 0003.JPG and ends with xxxxxxxx 1345.JPG. Anyone seen this behavior? Mic From alex at tweedly.net Tue Aug 27 08:08:37 2013 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:08:37 +0100 Subject: Sessions on LC Server Message-ID: <521C96C5.9050105@tweedly.net> I'm trying to get sessions working on LC Server with no luck. I'm using code from http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-January/166885.html which was where Malte got this to work OK - so it ought to be working code. (I added the line to print out the version - but it failed without that too. Also fails without setting sessionid) I'm on pancake.on-rev.com, using version 5.0.2 of LC server, and I get 5.0.2 file "/home/.../play.lc" row 4, col 1: from my file play.lc Any ideas ? Thanks -- Alex. From Ethan at Lish.net Tue Aug 27 08:16:30 2013 From: Ethan at Lish.net (Ethan Lish) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:16:30 -0400 Subject: Sessions on LC Server In-Reply-To: <521C96C5.9050105@tweedly.net> References: <521C96C5.9050105@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <0EA8C964-C801-42B5-955A-E4E4BB321966@Lish.net> Alex I also struggled with this and found I had to move session control earlier in the stack. I have a dirty code sample if you want to take a look E Ethan at Lish.net 240.449.8270 Sent from MyPhone > On Aug 27, 2013, at 8:08 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > I'm trying to get sessions working on LC Server with no luck. > > I'm using code from http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-January/166885.html > which was where Malte got this to work OK - so it ought to be working code. > (I added the line to print out the version - but it failed without that too. Also fails without setting sessionid) > > I'm on pancake.on-rev.com, using version 5.0.2 of LC server, and I get > > 5.0.2 > > file "/home/.../play.lc" > row 4, col 1: > > from my file play.lc > > put version() > set the sessionid to "100" > start session > if $_SESSION["counter"] is empty then > add 1 to $_SESSION["counter"] > put "No previous session detected. Session counter=" & $_SESSION["counter"] > else > add 1 to $_SESSION["counter"] > put "Session counter:" & $_SESSION["counter"] > end if > stop session > ?> > > Any ideas ? > > Thanks > -- Alex. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From alex at tweedly.net Tue Aug 27 08:24:39 2013 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:24:39 +0100 Subject: Sessions on LC Server In-Reply-To: <0EA8C964-C801-42B5-955A-E4E4BB321966@Lish.net> References: <521C96C5.9050105@tweedly.net> <0EA8C964-C801-42B5-955A-E4E4BB321966@Lish.net> Message-ID: <521C9A87.6020207@tweedly.net> Yes please; my example fails even if "start session is the first statement in my .lc file :-) you could email it direct to me at alex at tweedly.net ... Are you using on-rev ? which machine ? which engine version ? Thanks -- Alex. On 27/08/2013 13:16, Ethan Lish wrote: > Alex > > I also struggled with this and found I had to move session control earlier in the stack. I have a dirty code sample if you want to take a look > > E > > Ethan at Lish.net > 240.449.8270 > > Sent from MyPhone > >> On Aug 27, 2013, at 8:08 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >> I'm trying to get sessions working on LC Server with no luck. >> >> I'm using code from http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2012-January/166885.html >> which was where Malte got this to work OK - so it ought to be working code. >> (I added the line to print out the version - but it failed without that too. Also fails without setting sessionid) >> >> I'm on pancake.on-rev.com, using version 5.0.2 of LC server, and I get >> >> 5.0.2 >> >> file "/home/.../play.lc" >> row 4, col 1: >> >> from my file play.lc >> >> > put version() >> set the sessionid to "100" >> start session >> if $_SESSION["counter"] is empty then >> add 1 to $_SESSION["counter"] >> put "No previous session detected. Session counter=" & $_SESSION["counter"] >> else >> add 1 to $_SESSION["counter"] >> put "Session counter:" & $_SESSION["counter"] >> end if >> stop session >> ?> >> >> Any ideas ? >> >> Thanks >> -- Alex. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Tue Aug 27 08:57:14 2013 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Radio / checkbox button scaloing In-Reply-To: <0D38FF74-5A5D-4876-B7EB-9D095B8E8A92@mindcrea.com> References: <0D38FF74-5A5D-4876-B7EB-9D095B8E8A92@mindcrea.com> Message-ID: <8D0713C163B4B47-19A0-18A08@webmail-d130.sysops.aol.com> Something wrong with what you wrote Christer: set width of button "yourButton" to the formattedWidth of button "yourButton" This will take the width required to show the name of the button and make the button just that wide. Note that if you have a label applied to the button, it will take precedence over the name. Is this what might have happened in your case? Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Christer Pyyhti? To: use-livecode Sent: Tue, Aug 27, 2013 2:00 am Subject: Re: Radio / checkbox button scaloing Does not work from script either. Can you demonstrate it? I think the best way is to build own tick box system. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mkoob at rogers.com Tue Aug 27 09:24:45 2013 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 06:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Variable scope in Server mode In-Reply-To: <521C6A1F.8090702@tweedly.net> References: <521C6A1F.8090702@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <1377609885564-4669175.post@n4.nabble.com> I think you have to declare the variable as a local first and then assign it. Then I think it will be available within subsequent handlers. ie. References: <506131A4-5647-4473-A13C-A539B3C1EF10@mac.com> Message-ID: <7C8D4E1D-A10B-4B04-AB4E-3519AC9484FD@all-auctions.com> Hi there, The easy way out is to use: http://www.ustream.tv/ That with the revBrowser and you are done! Good luck! Rick On Aug 27, 2013, at 3:50 AM, paolo mazza wrote: > Bj?rnke > to set up a live videostreaming you can use these services (twitch.tv, > livestream.com ..) or manage a streaming server by yourself ( ie > Wowza). > But the point is, how can you have a LiveCode desktop application to > show a live video streaming? > AFAIK the old QuickTime player can not manage live video streaming nor > from Twitch.tv nor from Livestream.com. Am I right? > So, at the moment, the only available solution is opening a web page > with revBrowser. > I think runRev should provide a brand new video player (using HTML5). > Best regards > Paolo From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 27 10:19:47 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 07:19:47 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <521CB583.1090407@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > This is for the next release of my lcStackBrowser plugin. It will include > the ability to display and edit properties within the main lcStackBrowser > window. As part of that functionality, users can define property groups to > include whatever properties they wish. In turn, that is achieved by > drag/drop from a list of properties for an object type to a list of > properties within each of their property groups they specify. > > Hope that explains the final goal :-) It does - thanks. > At the moment, I am using a similar technique to yours where I start of by > getting the keys of the properties than add in a hard coded list of missing > properties for the object. That's OK but suffers from the downside that > every time a new release of LC comes out with new properties that perhaps > is not included in "the properties" (and there have been quite a few > recently), my list is out of date and I would have to put out a new release > simply to include the new properties. > > The issue of synonyms is part of but separate from all that. I have now > figured out how to get a list of the synonyms for any given property from > Bjornke's db (what an invaluable plugin!), at least to the extent that the > information in the dictionary is accurate. I wonder if perhaps you could split the difference, and have your property-checking routine done during development to build a list that's used at runtime. That would keep runtime lean and efficient, and unless you plan on abandoning the utility (which wouldn't make sense of course after putting so much time into it) you'll probably be releasing new versions anyway, so keeping it updated with the engine probably won't need much greater frequency of updates than normal enhancements and bug fixes would require anyway. Either way, as you noted "the properties" isn't providing what you need and requires some manual trimming anyway. It's just designed for a different purpose, so until we get a function specifically for the needs of IDE builders (I'd love to see "the complete properties of ") some manual work will always be required. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 27 10:27:00 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 07:27:00 -0700 Subject: Strange behavior of files() In-Reply-To: <0689EF80-7A69-42E6-B9B5-2610CA7B095F@dsa-net.dk> References: <0689EF80-7A69-42E6-B9B5-2610CA7B095F@dsa-net.dk> Message-ID: <521CB734.7070301@fourthworld.com> Michael Kristensen wrote: > I have a folder with 1347 jpg files > > they are sequently named > > xxxxxxxx 0001.JPG > xxxxxxxx 0002.JPG > xxxxxxxx 0003.JPG > ... > xxxxxxxx 1345.JPG > xxxxxxxx 1346.JPG > xxxxxxxx 1347.JPG > > Strangely the files() function return a list omitting the first two and the last two. > > Thus the list start with xxxxxxxx 0003.JPG and ends with xxxxxxxx 1345.JPG. > > Anyone seen this behavior? I've seen what *looks* like that behavior, until I double-checked and discovered that file name listings returned from "the files" are not always sorted. Instead, they return the values as known by the OS, which for some file systems often use inode order which may not reflect name sort order. Directories with large numbers of files may be especially prone to this, since the file lists are likely spread out across multiple inodes. Try running the resulting list through the sort command to see if perhaps the files you're looking for are actually there but had not been where you'd expected them. And an extra check might be to see if the number of lines in that list matches what you see in the OS file manager. If you find they're not there please post back so we can find the recipe to pin down what at that point would be a bug. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From pete at lcsql.com Tue Aug 27 12:46:01 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:46:01 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: References: <521BB6B9.5040600@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I've entered bug# 11129 at the QCC. The fix is already in "awaiting build" status Pete lcSQL Software From pete at lcsql.com Tue Aug 27 12:51:39 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:51:39 -0700 Subject: The encoding property In-Reply-To: <521CB583.1090407@fourthworld.com> References: <521CB583.1090407@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I wonder if perhaps you could split the difference, and have your > property-checking routine done during development to build a list that's > used at runtime. That would keep runtime lean and efficient, and unless > you plan on abandoning the utility (which wouldn't make sense of course > after putting so much time into it) you'll probably be releasing new > versions anyway, so keeping it updated with the engine probably won't need > much greater frequency of updates than normal enhancements and bug fixes > would require anyway. I'm thinking of using Bjornke's approach with Docu 2 where his database is tied to a specific version of LC. Whenever a user upgrades to a new version, a new database is created but on subsequent runs, no db creation is needed. Pete lcSQL Software From zryip.theslug at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 16:46:55 2013 From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 22:46:55 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Library for scripting MS Excel with LC - Beta Testers needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear LiveCode Community and Beta Testers, A new update concerning the Excel Library. For the beta testers and for everyone interested by the library, we have created a special page on our website, where we are communicating about our projects and their progresses. Feel free to have a look to our page and to send suggestion off-list, for improving the Excel Library. http://www.aslugontheroad.com/in-progress Best Regards, -- Zryip TheSlug http://www.aslugontheroad.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 27 22:47:49 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 22:47:49 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server, can it read local (on the server) drives? Message-ID: Are we limited to access only files in the wwwroot? I wish to have the server perform a SQL query to a database of file paths, and follow that request with an existence verification to a local drive of that same server. ~Roger From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 27 23:03:00 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 20:03:00 -0700 Subject: LiveCode Server, can it read local (on the server) drives? Message-ID: <521D6864.4070603@fourthworld.com> Roger Eller wrote: > Are we limited to access only files in the wwwroot? I wish to have the > server perform a SQL query to a database of file paths, and follow that > request with an existence verification to a local drive of that same server. AFAIK the file I/O in LC Server is every bit as flexible as in the desktop engine. I often access data in folders above the web root, no prob. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web ____________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 27 23:11:43 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 23:11:43 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server, can it read local (on the server) drives? In-Reply-To: <521D6864.4070603@fourthworld.com> References: <521D6864.4070603@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Perfect! I'm working to optimize the verification pass. Thanks Richard. Additionally, I want to pass a list to be queried and verified, instead of one line at a time, passing parameters with GET. Any recommendations on that front? ~Roger On Aug 27, 2013 11:03 PM, "Richard Gaskin" wrote: > Roger Eller wrote: > >> Are we limited to access only files in the wwwroot? I wish to have the >> server perform a SQL query to a database of file paths, and follow that >> request with an existence verification to a local drive of that same >> server. >> > > AFAIK the file I/O in LC Server is every bit as flexible as in the desktop > engine. I often access data in folders above the web root, no prob. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web > ______________________________**______________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Aug 28 00:41:22 2013 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 00:41:22 -0400 Subject: iOS and the defaultfolder In-Reply-To: References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <008001cea3a8$d8ba6310$8a2f2930$@net> This works in the simulator but not on the device...... ------- Set the defaultfolder to the documents folder ------- There is nothing in the result but==>the defaultfolder <> to the documents folder This does work ------- Set the defaultfolder to the engine folder ------- I can also read/write/delete files in the documents folder. I just can't set the defaultfolder there. Is this an iOS security restriction or a bug? Thanks! Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Aug 28 01:07:09 2013 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:07:09 -0400 Subject: iOS and the defaultfolder In-Reply-To: References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <008201cea3ac$731288e0$59379aa0$@net> Well, well, well. When one set the default folder to any place in the "the documents folder" a "/Private" get prepended to the front of "the default folder"(but not on the simulator). Although "the defaultfolder <> to the documents folder" the "defaultfolder" is where you want to be to see your apps documents. Strange but true This works in the simulator but not on the device...... ------- Set the defaultfolder to the documents folder ------- There is nothing in the result but==>the defaultfolder <> to the documents folder This does work ------- Set the defaultfolder to the engine folder ------- I can also read/write/delete files in the documents folder. I just can't set the defaultfolder there. Is this an iOS security restriction or a bug? Thanks! Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From gcanyon at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 03:54:20 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 02:54:20 -0500 Subject: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: <13344C8D-6333-4354-9120-EFFAB97539DF@gmail.com> References: <13344C8D-6333-4354-9120-EFFAB97539DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > function shorten tList > repeat with n = 1 to the number of lines of tList > put line n of tList into lineText > if length(lineText) < 75 then next repeat > put empty into tBefore > put empty into tAfter > if char 43 of line n of tList = space then > put space into tBefore > end if > if char -25 of line n of tList = space then > put space into tAfter > end if > put tBefore & "..." & tAfter into char 43 to -25 of of line n of > tList > -- 3 periods, not a numtochar(201) > end repeat > return tList > end shorten > Just saw this because of wonky spam filters. You can get identical results to the above (without the errors) with: function shorten2 tList repeat for each line L in tList if length(L) < 75 then put L & cr after R else put (char 1 to 42 of L) & char (2 - offset(" ",char 43 of L)) to (-2 + offset(" ",char -25 of L)) of " ... " & (char -24 to -1 of L) & cr after R end if end repeat return R end shorten2 That returns variable-length shortened lines, as does the original. If there isn't a special reason for that, then this is even simpler, and has the shortening parameters as variables. Just call it with 75 and 43 to get similar to the original. function trimLines tList, trimTo, elipseAfter repeat for each line L in tList if length(L) <= trimTo then put L & cr after R else put (char 1 to elipseAfter of L) & "..." & (char (elipseAfter - trimTo + 3) to -1 of L) & cr after R end repeat return R end trimLines Both of these scale roughly linearly. For menus it's not likely to be a factor, but on 3500 lines the original takes about a second on my machine, and each of these take about a hundredth of a second. gc From neil at runrev.com Wed Aug 28 05:05:04 2013 From: neil at runrev.com (Neil Roger) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:05:04 +0100 Subject: iOS and the defaultfolder In-Reply-To: <008001cea3a8$d8ba6310$8a2f2930$@net> References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> <008001cea3a8$d8ba6310$8a2f2930$@net> Message-ID: <521DBD40.9090409@runrev.com> Hi Ralph, I have responded to your support request in regards to this matter. Please let me know if you did not receive this response. Kind Regards, Neil Roger -- RunRev Support Team ~ http://www.runrev.com - On 28/08/2013 05:41, Ralph DiMola wrote: > This works in the simulator but not on the device...... > ------- > Set the defaultfolder to the documents folder > ------- > There is nothing in the result but==>the defaultfolder <> to the documents > folder > > This does work > ------- > Set the defaultfolder to the engine folder > ------- > > I can also read/write/delete files in the documents folder. I just can't set > the defaultfolder there. > Is this an iOS security restriction or a bug? > > Thanks! > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tate83 at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 07:53:31 2013 From: tate83 at gmail.com (Pascal Lehner) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 12:53:31 +0100 Subject: Datagrid: Edit row, save to database Message-ID: Hi all, Sitting in the Indian sun and writing on my hobby project. (Sorry for that.. ;-) Couldn't be better if there wasn't that one thing I cannot figure out just now. I load data from several tables (main table: ingredients) from a a SQLite database into a data grid. Now I wan't to provide an option to edit such displayed rows within the data grid. The user should be able to click on a certain field and then edit it however he wishes. When clicking save (or upon exiting this field), these data should be saved back to the database. Kinda like Excel can do. Also, there is fields where he should be able to chose from a drop-down menu (like 'categories') since these are linked tables and I only store the index no in the 'ingredients table'. Similarly, I wan't to provide an option to add new rows but I think that's going to be a similar command/code. Is there an easy way to do that? If not, I might just display several fields with the data for him to edit below the grid but that probably isn't what a user expects from such a datagrid.. Thanks in advance. Best regards, Pascal From michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk Wed Aug 28 08:43:21 2013 From: michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk (Michael Kristensen) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 14:43:21 +0200 Subject: Strange behavior of files() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83774A7D-F5AF-4652-8F21-99E01B5F00C4@dsa-net.dk> Den 28/08/2013 kl. 12.00 skrev use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com: Richard, you were right in both cases. A sort put it straight and the number of files was correct. So no bug, but can cause hair-pulling in some cases. Thanks for your swift reply. It vas while I used Chipp Walters altThumbViewer control - Beta 0.9 I noticed the anormality. Michael > Michael Kristensen wrote: > >> I have a folder with 1347 jpg files >> >> they are sequently named >> >> xxxxxxxx 0001.JPG >> xxxxxxxx 0002.JPG >> xxxxxxxx 0003.JPG >> ... >> xxxxxxxx 1345.JPG >> xxxxxxxx 1346.JPG >> xxxxxxxx 1347.JPG >> >> Strangely the files() function return a list omitting the first two and the last two. >> >> Thus the list start with xxxxxxxx 0003.JPG and ends with xxxxxxxx 1345.JPG. >> >> Anyone seen this behavior? > > I've seen what *looks* like that behavior, until I double-checked and > discovered that file name listings returned from "the files" are not > always sorted. > > Instead, they return the values as known by the OS, which for some file > systems often use inode order which may not reflect name sort order. > Directories with large numbers of files may be especially prone to this, > since the file lists are likely spread out across multiple inodes. > > Try running the resulting list through the sort command to see if > perhaps the files you're looking for are actually there but had not been > where you'd expected them. > > And an extra check might be to see if the number of lines in that list > matches what you see in the OS file manager. > > If you find they're not there please post back so we can find the recipe > to pin down what at that point would be a bug. > > -- > Richard Gaskin From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 28 09:34:45 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 06:34:45 -0700 Subject: LiveCode Server, can it read local (on the server) drives? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <521DFC75.8010401@fourthworld.com> Roger Eller wrote: > Additionally, I want to pass a list to be queried and verified, instead of > one line at a time, passing parameters with GET. Any recommendations on > that front? For reasons I can't understand, though the LC Server engine is 50% larger than a GUI Linux standalone, I believe it includes no socket support (I hope I'm mistaken on that - anyone have newer info?). If socket communication is critical you may consider using a standalone instead. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From mcgrath3 at mac.com Wed Aug 28 09:47:14 2013 From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:47:14 -0400 Subject: iOS and the defaultfolder In-Reply-To: <008001cea3a8$d8ba6310$8a2f2930$@net> References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> <008001cea3a8$d8ba6310$8a2f2930$@net> Message-ID: Ralph, Do you have "File Sharing" selected or unselected in the iOS pane in the application standalone settings? -- Tom McGrath III http://lazyriver.on-rev.com mcgrath3 at mac.com On Aug 28, 2013, at 12:41 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > This works in the simulator but not on the device...... > ------- > Set the defaultfolder to the documents folder > ------- > There is nothing in the result but==>the defaultfolder <> to the documents > folder > > This does work > ------- > Set the defaultfolder to the engine folder > ------- > > I can also read/write/delete files in the documents folder. I just can't set > the defaultfolder there. > Is this an iOS security restriction or a bug? > > Thanks! > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Aug 28 10:01:21 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:01:21 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server, can it read local (on the server) drives? In-Reply-To: <521DFC75.8010401@fourthworld.com> References: <521DFC75.8010401@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard, A direct SQL query followed by a FTP command to check existence, on a per file basis takes about 150 millisecs. The same query performed by LC Server, and FTP existence check, takes about 500 millisecs. I understand that sockets would be more efficient for high volume io. At most, my list of filenames would be under 300 lines at a time. In an earlier post, a few weeks back, you mentioned that you had achieved high efficiency using text files and arrays with server. That may not be relevant to this, but it made me consider simply ftp-ing my list, followed by a http request to tell the server there's a new task, and have it return the original list, plus y/n for the existence check. I'm not really fond of the idea of writing the list to the drive just for processing. I doubt that all of the data (the list) could be carried in a GET parameter of the URL. I don't know the URL length limitations, or if there is a limit. ~Roger On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Roger Eller wrote: > >> Additionally, I want to pass a list to be queried and verified, instead of >> one line at a time, passing parameters with GET. Any recommendations on >> that front? >> > > For reasons I can't understand, though the LC Server engine is 50% larger > than a GUI Linux standalone, I believe it includes no socket support (I > hope I'm mistaken on that - anyone have newer info?). > > If socket communication is critical you may consider using a standalone > instead. > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 28 10:19:06 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 07:19:06 -0700 Subject: LiveCode Server, can it read local (on the server) drives? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <521E06DA.5050007@fourthworld.com> Roger Eller wrote: > A direct SQL query followed by a FTP command to check existence, > on a per file basis takes about 150 millisecs. > The same query performed by LC Server, and FTP existence check, > takes about 500 millisecs. FTP is notoriously slow. All things considered, that's not bad, though on a server with any appreciable traffic a half-second for a single transaction may become problematic. > I doubt that all of the data (the list) could be carried in a GET > parameter of the URL. I don't know the URL length limitations, or > if there is a limit. It does, and there is no standard. POST can carry much more data, and although it's also implemented with no consistent limitation at least it should be big enough to handle a list of the size you describe. In your original post you wrote: > I wish to have the server perform a SQL query to a database of file > paths, and follow that request with an existence verification to a > local drive of that same server. Rather than FTP between servers, I wonder if it may be more efficient, and possible simpler in terms of the number of moving parts, to call another LC Server routine (or PHP or whatever else could do this) on that DB server to both query the DB and check for the existence of the corresponding file there. In LC, "if there is a file " is darn fast, many times faster than checking a file's existence via FTP (probably by at least an order of magnitude). Another possible benefit of this approach is that the addition of an LC script as a sort of "middleware" on the other server turns that server into a service, one that could be extended in other useful directions down the road as your needs grow. In cases like this I'm often reminded of Jeff Bezos' requirement for his engineering team: "Don't give me code, give me APIs". With that mandate they were able to implement a system that no only grew well enough to make Amazon the largest retailer on earth, but also later became a product in itself, known today as Amazon Web Services. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Aug 28 10:31:50 2013 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:31:50 -0400 Subject: iOS and the defaultfolder In-Reply-To: References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> <008001cea3a8$d8ba6310$8a2f2930$@net> Message-ID: <001501cea3fb$55d0a920$0171fb60$@net> Tom, File sharing is NOT checked. Did you see my second message? Weird.... Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Thomas McGrath III Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:47 AM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: iOS and the defaultfolder Ralph, Do you have "File Sharing" selected or unselected in the iOS pane in the application standalone settings? -- Tom McGrath III http://lazyriver.on-rev.com mcgrath3 at mac.com On Aug 28, 2013, at 12:41 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > This works in the simulator but not on the device...... > ------- > Set the defaultfolder to the documents folder > ------- > There is nothing in the result but==>the defaultfolder <> to the > documents folder > > This does work > ------- > Set the defaultfolder to the engine folder > ------- > > I can also read/write/delete files in the documents folder. I just > can't set the defaultfolder there. > Is this an iOS security restriction or a bug? > > Thanks! > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Aug 28 10:47:31 2013 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:47:31 -0400 Subject: iOS and the defaultfolder In-Reply-To: <521DBD40.9090409@runrev.com> References: <5C9178BF-912D-495F-A788-0B826873D59C@canelasoftware.com> <008001cea3a8$d8ba6310$8a2f2930$@net> <521DBD40.9090409@runrev.com> Message-ID: <001601cea3fd$86659260$9330b720$@net> Neil, Very interesting. Check out the change I made to the top button. When one sets the default folder to any place in the "the documents folder" a "/Private" get prepended to the front of "the defaultfolder"(but not on the simulator). "the documents folder" does not start with /Private although you get to the correct place. Although "the defaultfolder <> to the documents folder" the "defaultfolder" is where you want to be to see your app's documents. Thanks for all you help! Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11 Cell: 518-796-9332 -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Neil Roger Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:05 AM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: iOS and the defaultfolder Hi Ralph, I have responded to your support request in regards to this matter. Please let me know if you did not receive this response. Kind Regards, Neil Roger -- RunRev Support Team ~ http://www.runrev.com - On 28/08/2013 05:41, Ralph DiMola wrote: > This works in the simulator but not on the device...... > ------- > Set the defaultfolder to the documents folder > ------- > There is nothing in the result but==>the defaultfolder <> to the > documents folder > > This does work > ------- > Set the defaultfolder to the engine folder > ------- > > I can also read/write/delete files in the documents folder. I just > can't set the defaultfolder there. > Is this an iOS security restriction or a bug? > > Thanks! > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Aug 28 10:56:25 2013 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:56:25 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server, can it read local (on the server) drives? In-Reply-To: <521E06DA.5050007@fourthworld.com> References: <521E06DA.5050007@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: If there is a file would be much better and easier to read than: put libURLftpCommand("SIZE " & fileToQuery, LFtpServer, LFtpUserName, LFtpUserPassword) into tSize if word 1 of tSize is "213" then put true into fileExists else put false into fileExists end if ~Roger On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Roger Eller wrote: > > > A direct SQL query followed by a FTP command to check existence, > > on a per file basis takes about 150 millisecs. > > The same query performed by LC Server, and FTP existence check, > > takes about 500 millisecs. > > FTP is notoriously slow. All things considered, that's not bad, though on > a server with any appreciable traffic a half-second for a single > transaction may become problematic. > > > > I doubt that all of the data (the list) could be carried in a GET > > parameter of the URL. I don't know the URL length limitations, or > > if there is a limit. > > It does, and there is no standard. POST can carry much more data, and > although it's also implemented with no consistent limitation at least it > should be big enough to handle a list of the size you describe. > > > In your original post you wrote: > > > I wish to have the server perform a SQL query to a database of file > > paths, and follow that request with an existence verification to a > > local drive of that same server. > > Rather than FTP between servers, I wonder if it may be more efficient, and > possible simpler in terms of the number of moving parts, to call another LC > Server routine (or PHP or whatever else could do this) on that DB server to > both query the DB and check for the existence of the corresponding file > there. > > In LC, "if there is a file " is darn fast, many times faster than > checking a file's existence via FTP (probably by at least an order of > magnitude). > > Another possible benefit of this approach is that the addition of an LC > script as a sort of "middleware" on the other server turns that server into > a service, one that could be extended in other useful directions down the > road as your needs grow. > > In cases like this I'm often reminded of Jeff Bezos' requirement for his > engineering team: "Don't give me code, give me APIs". With that mandate > they were able to implement a system that no only grew well enough to make > Amazon the largest retailer on earth, but also later became a product in > itself, known today as Amazon Web Services. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World > LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com > Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys > > > ______________________________**_________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From christer at mindcrea.com Wed Aug 28 12:14:19 2013 From: christer at mindcrea.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Christer_Pyyhti=E4?=) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 19:14:19 +0300 Subject: Variable scope in Server mode Message-ID: <10ACBC15-CD2C-4FA3-B7E8-5266B5317D8F@mindcrea.com> A further question: - when you connect the server, and set a global variable into a value (e.g. put "true" into gVar), and your device after a few commands contacts the server / same script again, is gVar still "true" or empty? From christer at mindcrea.com Wed Aug 28 12:17:50 2013 From: christer at mindcrea.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Christer_Pyyhti=E4?=) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 19:17:50 +0300 Subject: Radio / checkbox button scaloing Message-ID: <7DA9C359-FF28-4BF5-9916-B5AB30FD7B29@mindcrea.com> What is wanted is that the checkbox scales with the textSize. Now it looks like the box size stays constant not depending on textSize. I have been trying to find out ways but no success so far. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 28 12:29:35 2013 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:29:35 -0700 Subject: Variable scope in Server mode In-Reply-To: <10ACBC15-CD2C-4FA3-B7E8-5266B5317D8F@mindcrea.com> References: <10ACBC15-CD2C-4FA3-B7E8-5266B5317D8F@mindcrea.com> Message-ID: <521E256F.9010701@fourthworld.com> Christer Pyyhti? wrote: > - when you connect the server, and set a global variable into > a value (e.g. put "true" into gVar), and your device after a > few commands contacts the server / same script again, is gVar > still "true" or empty? Any CGI process is launched, runs, and quits with each request. So with LC Server, any variables initialized will be gone once the request returns to Apache. If you need persistence you can use text files or a database, of if the data is user-specific you can use LS Server's session support. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys From irog at mac.com Wed Aug 28 12:29:31 2013 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:29:31 -0700 Subject: Radio / checkbox button scaloing In-Reply-To: <7DA9C359-FF28-4BF5-9916-B5AB30FD7B29@mindcrea.com> References: <7DA9C359-FF28-4BF5-9916-B5AB30FD7B29@mindcrea.com> Message-ID: <52628BB7-EE0B-4958-BECF-C1CCA3F840D3@mac.com> I believe you have to change their icon. Build your own icons of the size you want and then import them as images etc. Roger On Aug 28, 2013, at 9:17 AM, Christer Pyyhti? wrote: > What is wanted is that the checkbox scales with the textSize. Now it looks like the box size stays constant not depending on textSize. > > I have been trying to find out ways but no success so far. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ac.marketscout at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 14:03:17 2013 From: ac.marketscout at gmail.com (AC Marketscout) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 13:03:17 -0500 Subject: MySql vs Valentina Message-ID: Hello, We are developing a new application using LiveCode. One requirement is that there is some easy way to alter the underlying DB schema, on-the-fly, by an administrator, who can then also immediately use it to make front-end changes. I have heard Valentina supports tight integration with LiveCode and that this may be possible. I?d like to know if this is true, and are there other benefits to using Valentina as opposed to something like MySql (which we are also considering). Thank you, AC From dan at clearvisiontech.com Wed Aug 28 16:53:42 2013 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 13:53:42 -0700 Subject: Parsing iCal Format In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6552F127-A38F-48DD-92BD-8291DAFAA697@clearvisiontech.com> Greetings! Has anyone messed around with parsing through a iCal file? I am writing my own [mobile] calendar that will read in and display iCal data. Getting and finding data in the file is easy (BEGIN:VEVENT, LOCATION, SUMMARY, DESCRIPTION, etc.). The problem is working with RRULE, the Recurrence Rule. There are 1000's of possible combinations (FREQ, COUNT, UNTIL, INTERVAL, BYDAY, BYMONTH, on and on and on... UG!). Before I attempt to scale the mountain, I thought I would ask if anyone has already done this (or something like it). ANY advice is welcome! -Dan From pmbrig at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 12:40:25 2013 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 12:40:25 -0400 Subject: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: References: <13344C8D-6333-4354-9120-EFFAB97539DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7FF0BD50-7FF4-4A63-A36C-28ECCA2B4523@gmail.com> Inventive approaches, thank you. I continued to have trouble with using any function at all to trim the lines in a Windows standalone though everything I tried worked in the Mac IDE. It started working fine in the standalone when I put the identical code into the calling handlers. I still don't understand this, but I've got it working now. Re scalability, it's just for a short list of text snippets for a popup button, max length <= 20 or so. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Aug 28, 2013, at 3:54 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > >> function shorten tList >> repeat with n = 1 to the number of lines of tList >> put line n of tList into lineText >> if length(lineText) < 75 then next repeat >> put empty into tBefore >> put empty into tAfter >> if char 43 of line n of tList = space then >> put space into tBefore >> end if >> if char -25 of line n of tList = space then >> put space into tAfter >> end if >> put tBefore & "..." & tAfter into char 43 to -25 of of line n of >> tList >> -- 3 periods, not a numtochar(201) >> end repeat >> return tList >> end shorten >> > > > Just saw this because of wonky spam filters. You can get identical results > to the above (without the errors) with: > > function shorten2 tList > repeat for each line L in tList > if length(L) < 75 then > put L & cr after R > else > put (char 1 to 42 of L) & char (2 - offset(" ",char 43 of L)) to > (-2 + offset(" ",char -25 of L)) of " ... " & (char -24 to -1 of L) & cr > after R > end if > end repeat > return R > end shorten2 > > That returns variable-length shortened lines, as does the original. If > there isn't a special reason for that, then this is even simpler, and has > the shortening parameters as variables. Just call it with 75 and 43 to get > similar to the original. > > function trimLines tList, trimTo, elipseAfter > repeat for each line L in tList > if length(L) <= trimTo then put L & cr after R else put (char 1 to > elipseAfter of L) & "..." & (char (elipseAfter - trimTo + 3) to -1 of L) & > cr after R > end repeat > return R > end trimLines > > Both of these scale roughly linearly. For menus it's not likely to be a > factor, but on 3500 lines the original takes about a second on my machine, > and each of these take about a hundredth of a second. > > gc > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bvg at mac.com Wed Aug 28 19:48:16 2013 From: bvg at mac.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 01:48:16 +0200 Subject: Datagrid: Edit row, save to database In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D176907-A934-4778-AD41-15976981AA7D@mac.com> sure, i suggest you check out the lessons, mosg dg stuff is documented there: http://lessons.runrev.com/m/datagrid for example: http://lessons.runrev.com/s/lessons/m/datagrid/l/7314-how-do-i-add-a-row-of-data-to-an-existing-data-grid or: http://lessons.runrev.com/s/lessons/m/datagrid/l/7337-how-do-i-save-changes-the-user-makes-in-an-editor-field-to-an-external-data-source On 28.08.2013, at 13:53, Pascal Lehner wrote: > Hi all, > > Sitting in the Indian sun and writing on my hobby project. (Sorry for > that.. ;-) > Couldn't be better if there wasn't that one thing I cannot figure out just > now. > > I load data from several tables (main table: ingredients) from a a SQLite > database into a data grid. > > Now I wan't to provide an option to edit such displayed rows within the > data grid. The user should be able to click on a certain field and then > edit it however he wishes. When clicking save (or upon exiting this field), > these data should be saved back to the database. Kinda like Excel can do. > Also, there is fields where he should be able to chose from a drop-down > menu (like 'categories') since these are linked tables and I only store the > index no in the 'ingredients table'. > > Similarly, I wan't to provide an option to add new rows but I think that's > going to be a similar command/code. > > Is there an easy way to do that? > If not, I might just display several fields with the data for him to edit > below the grid but that probably isn't what a user expects from such a > datagrid.. > > Thanks in advance. > > Best regards, > > Pascal > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Use an alternative Dictionary viewer: http://bjoernke.com/bvgdocu/ Chat with other RunRev developers: http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/ From pete at lcsql.com Wed Aug 28 20:22:40 2013 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 17:22:40 -0700 Subject: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: <7FF0BD50-7FF4-4A63-A36C-28ECCA2B4523@gmail.com> References: <13344C8D-6333-4354-9120-EFFAB97539DF@gmail.com> <7FF0BD50-7FF4-4A63-A36C-28ECCA2B4523@gmail.com> Message-ID: Glad you got it working. Just a nitpick but you want to consider using numToChar(133) instead of "...".so you only take up 1 char instead of 3. Of course nothing's ever that simple 'cause then you'd have to use ISOToMac as well when on a Mac.. Pete lcSQL Software On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > Inventive approaches, thank you. I continued to have trouble with using > any function at all to trim the lines in a Windows standalone though > everything I tried worked in the Mac IDE. It started working fine in the > standalone when I put the identical code into the calling handlers. I still > don't understand this, but I've got it working now. > > Re scalability, it's just for a short list of text snippets for a popup > button, max length <= 20 or so. > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > On Aug 28, 2013, at 3:54 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Peter M. Brigham > wrote: > > > >> function shorten tList > >> repeat with n = 1 to the number of lines of tList > >> put line n of tList into lineText > >> if length(lineText) < 75 then next repeat > >> put empty into tBefore > >> put empty into tAfter > >> if char 43 of line n of tList = space then > >> put space into tBefore > >> end if > >> if char -25 of line n of tList = space then > >> put space into tAfter > >> end if > >> put tBefore & "..." & tAfter into char 43 to -25 of of line n of > >> tList > >> -- 3 periods, not a numtochar(201) > >> end repeat > >> return tList > >> end shorten > >> > > > > > > Just saw this because of wonky spam filters. You can get identical > results > > to the above (without the errors) with: > > > > function shorten2 tList > > repeat for each line L in tList > > if length(L) < 75 then > > put L & cr after R > > else > > put (char 1 to 42 of L) & char (2 - offset(" ",char 43 of L)) to > > (-2 + offset(" ",char -25 of L)) of " ... " & (char -24 to -1 of L) & cr > > after R > > end if > > end repeat > > return R > > end shorten2 > > > > That returns variable-length shortened lines, as does the original. If > > there isn't a special reason for that, then this is even simpler, and has > > the shortening parameters as variables. Just call it with 75 and 43 to > get > > similar to the original. > > > > function trimLines tList, trimTo, elipseAfter > > repeat for each line L in tList > > if length(L) <= trimTo then put L & cr after R else put (char 1 to > > elipseAfter of L) & "..." & (char (elipseAfter - trimTo + 3) to -1 of L) > & > > cr after R > > end repeat > > return R > > end trimLines > > > > Both of these scale roughly linearly. For menus it's not likely to be a > > factor, but on 3500 lines the original takes about a second on my > machine, > > and each of these take about a hundredth of a second. > > > > gc > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 23:15:26 2013 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 11:15:26 +0800 Subject: MySql vs Valentina In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, My suggestion is to post your question on the Valentina Use List, which I've CC'd. I haven't done what you want, but the API calls are very powerful and so would imagine it possible. Valentina has Binary LINKs, once you figure those out it makes creating and maintaining data relationships very easy. Also, Ruslan and the team are VERY responsive to support requests. A while back I had a project where the data sets remained fairly static but the LINKs were subject to constant change. At the time you needed to maintain awareness of the LINKs, individually UNLINK them, then create a new LINK. A little tedious and prone to error, it would have been so much easier if I could just UNLINK all records and build the new LINKS from scratch. A request to Ruslan and now I can :-) HTH On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:03 AM, AC Marketscout wrote: > Hello, > > > > We are developing a new application using LiveCode. One requirement is > that there is some easy way to alter the underlying DB schema, on-the-fly, > by an administrator, who can then also immediately use it to make front-end > changes. I have heard Valentina supports tight integration with LiveCode > and that this may be possible. > > > > I?d like to know if this is true, and are there other benefits to using > Valentina as opposed to something like MySql (which we are also > considering). > > > > Thank you, > > AC > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 00:53:35 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 23:53:35 -0500 Subject: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: <7FF0BD50-7FF4-4A63-A36C-28ECCA2B4523@gmail.com> References: <13344C8D-6333-4354-9120-EFFAB97539DF@gmail.com> <7FF0BD50-7FF4-4A63-A36C-28ECCA2B4523@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2CC93CE0-1A68-4803-881A-F1B93D68AA89@gmail.com> Do you mean that the code is no longer in a function at all, it's just part of some "build the menu" routine, and that works, but if it's a function, even in the same object, it's no good? That is odd. gc Sent from my iPad On Aug 28, 2013, at 11:40 AM, "Peter M. Brigham" wrote: > It started working fine in the standalone when I put the identical code into the calling handlers. From gcanyon at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 00:55:35 2013 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 23:55:35 -0500 Subject: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: References: <13344C8D-6333-4354-9120-EFFAB97539DF@gmail.com> <7FF0BD50-7FF4-4A63-A36C-28ECCA2B4523@gmail.com> Message-ID: <74F8440F-1D45-4AC8-81BA-EF0B14BC913D@gmail.com> I thought about writing the function to accept a parameter for the "ellipsis chunk" but I went with expediency instead :-/ Sent from my iPad On Aug 28, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > you want to consider using numToChar(133) instead From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Thu Aug 29 03:35:15 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 07:35:15 +0000 Subject: Can't open script editor Message-ID: <867D7904-B68F-423F-A421-312CDE2209F1@unimelb.edu.au> Since about an hour ago I can no longer open the script editor in LC 6.1.1 rc3. This problem only seems to affect this version (older versions are still OK) and occurs with both commercial and community versions. Trying to open the script editor causes Livecode to hang, requiring a force quit (OSX). Any ideas? Terry... Dr Terry Judd Senior Lecturer in Medical Education Medical Education Unit Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences The University of Melbourne From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 29 03:40:08 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:40:08 +0200 Subject: Can't open script editor In-Reply-To: <867D7904-B68F-423F-A421-312CDE2209F1@unimelb.edu.au> References: <867D7904-B68F-423F-A421-312CDE2209F1@unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <521EFAD8.5060700@economy-x-talk.com> Terry, What have you tried to solve the problem so far? -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/29/2013 09:35, Terry Judd wrote: > Since about an hour ago I can no longer open the script editor in LC 6.1.1 rc3. This problem only seems to affect this version (older versions are still OK) and occurs with both commercial and community versions. > > Trying to open the script editor causes Livecode to hang, requiring a force quit (OSX). > > Any ideas? > > Terry... > > Dr Terry Judd > Senior Lecturer in Medical Education > Medical Education Unit > Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences > The University of Melbourne > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 03:43:19 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:43:19 +0300 Subject: Can't open script editor In-Reply-To: <867D7904-B68F-423F-A421-312CDE2209F1@unimelb.edu.au> References: <867D7904-B68F-423F-A421-312CDE2209F1@unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <521EFB97.2040904@gmail.com> On 08/29/2013 10:35 AM, Terry Judd wrote: > Since about an hour ago I can no longer open the script editor in LC 6.1.1 rc3. This problem only seems to affect this version (older versions are still OK) and occurs with both commercial and community versions. > > Trying to open the script editor causes Livecode to hang, requiring a force quit (OSX). > > Any ideas? Remember that that is a "release candidate" that is, obviously, not quite ready for release. I have 6.1 as my "main man" right now, and just fool around with the release candidates to see if I can break things. Richmond. > > Terry... > > Dr Terry Judd > Senior Lecturer in Medical Education > Medical Education Unit > Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences > The University of Melbourne > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Thu Aug 29 03:47:52 2013 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 00:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Can't open script editor In-Reply-To: <867D7904-B68F-423F-A421-312CDE2209F1@unimelb.edu.au> References: <867D7904-B68F-423F-A421-312CDE2209F1@unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <1377762472125-4669215.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Terry, This looks like a bug in the rc3 version. Similar problems have been reported on the Devlist. Best to submit the problem to the LiveCode Quality Control Centre http://quality.runrev.com/ ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Can-t-open-script-editor-tp4669212p4669215.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 03:49:56 2013 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:49:56 +0300 Subject: [OT] The Nigerians are back Message-ID: <521EFD24.8060009@gmail.com> Sheer Joy! I opened my e-mail client and there was a message from one "Lois Ashante" (such cross-cultural poetry in a name! Makes me think of a fine, upstanding young lady beside her boyfriend "Super Yoruba") promising much fine gold in exchange for a measley $100 of mine as an 'act of confidence'. So: 1. Remember that gold passes right through one's intestine and has no obvious nutritional value at all; probably better to stick with bread and cheese. 2. Expect lots of tempting offers of this sort down your way. 3. Thunderbird (and G-Mail) shoved half the Use-List postings in my Spam box, but Mizz Ashante ended up in my IN box . . . so be careful. Richmond. From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Thu Aug 29 03:53:16 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 07:53:16 +0000 Subject: Can't open script editor In-Reply-To: <521EFAD8.5060700@economy-x-talk.com> References: <867D7904-B68F-423F-A421-312CDE2209F1@unimelb.edu.au> <521EFAD8.5060700@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: On 29/08/2013, at 05:40 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Terry, > > What have you tried to solve the problem so far? Hi Mark - I tried deleting the revpreferences file and trashing and reinstalling from a fresh download. Still no go. It seems to affect all 6.1.1 versions (6.1 and earlier are OK) but I'm not sure why that would be the case. I guess I'll try restarting my Macbook for good measure. Terry... > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi > > Fill out this survey please > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ > > On 8/29/2013 09:35, Terry Judd wrote: >> Since about an hour ago I can no longer open the script editor in LC 6.1.1 rc3. This problem only seems to affect this version (older versions are still OK) and occurs with both commercial and community versions. >> >> Trying to open the script editor causes Livecode to hang, requiring a force quit (OSX). >> >> Any ideas? >> >> Terry... >> >> Dr Terry Judd >> Senior Lecturer in Medical Education >> Medical Education Unit >> Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences >> The University of Melbourne >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > Dr Terry Judd Senior Lecturer in Medical Education Medical Education Unit Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences The University of Melbourne From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 29 03:59:01 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:59:01 +0200 Subject: Can't open script editor In-Reply-To: References: <867D7904-B68F-423F-A421-312CDE2209F1@unimelb.edu.au> <521EFAD8.5060700@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <521EFF45.9060409@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Terry, Did you do a complete uninstall *and* delete the revPreferences stack again before re-installing? What does the syntax there is a stack "revNewScriptEditor" return? What happens if you put true into gRevDevelopment and try to edit a script? -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/29/2013 09:53, Terry Judd wrote: > > On 29/08/2013, at 05:40 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > >> Terry, >> >> What have you tried to solve the problem so far? > > Hi Mark - I tried deleting the revpreferences file and trashing and reinstalling from a fresh download. Still no go. It seems to affect all 6.1.1 versions (6.1 and earlier are OK) but I'm not sure why that would be the case. > > I guess I'll try restarting my Macbook for good measure. > > Terry... > From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Thu Aug 29 04:01:27 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 08:01:27 +0000 Subject: Can't open script editor In-Reply-To: References: <867D7904-B68F-423F-A421-312CDE2209F1@unimelb.edu.au> <521EFAD8.5060700@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <7744BC23-496A-491B-A092-36509B27C109@unimelb.edu.au> On 29/08/2013, at 05:53 PM, Terry Judd wrote: > > On 29/08/2013, at 05:40 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > >> Terry, >> >> What have you tried to solve the problem so far? > > Hi Mark - I tried deleting the revpreferences file and trashing and reinstalling from a fresh download. Still no go. It seems to affect all 6.1.1 versions (6.1 and earlier are OK) but I'm not sure why that would be the case. > > I guess I'll try restarting my Macbook for good measure. I clearly should have tried that first. Seems to be all good now. Cheers, Terry... > > Terry... > >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> >> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering >> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer >> KvK: 50277553 >> >> Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com >> >> Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi >> >> Fill out this survey please >> http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ >> >> On 8/29/2013 09:35, Terry Judd wrote: >>> Since about an hour ago I can no longer open the script editor in LC 6.1.1 rc3. This problem only seems to affect this version (older versions are still OK) and occurs with both commercial and community versions. >>> >>> Trying to open the script editor causes Livecode to hang, requiring a force quit (OSX). >>> >>> Any ideas? >>> >>> Terry... >>> >>> Dr Terry Judd >>> Senior Lecturer in Medical Education >>> Medical Education Unit >>> Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences >>> The University of Melbourne >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > Dr Terry Judd > Senior Lecturer in Medical Education > Medical Education Unit > Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences > The University of Melbourne > > > > Dr Terry Judd Senior Lecturer in Medical Education Medical Education Unit Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences The University of Melbourne From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Thu Aug 29 04:02:54 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 08:02:54 +0000 Subject: Can't open script editor In-Reply-To: <521EFF45.9060409@economy-x-talk.com> References: <867D7904-B68F-423F-A421-312CDE2209F1@unimelb.edu.au> <521EFAD8.5060700@economy-x-talk.com> <521EFF45.9060409@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Thanks Mark - all good now but if the problem recurs then I'll try what you suggest below. Terry... On 29/08/2013, at 05:59 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Hi Terry, > > Did you do a complete uninstall *and* delete the revPreferences stack again before re-installing? > > What does the syntax > > there is a stack "revNewScriptEditor" > > return? What happens if you put true into gRevDevelopment and try to edit a script? > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi > > Fill out this survey please > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ > > On 8/29/2013 09:53, Terry Judd wrote: >> >> On 29/08/2013, at 05:40 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: >> >>> Terry, >>> >>> What have you tried to solve the problem so far? >> >> Hi Mark - I tried deleting the revpreferences file and trashing and reinstalling from a fresh download. Still no go. It seems to affect all 6.1.1 versions (6.1 and earlier are OK) but I'm not sure why that would be the case. >> >> I guess I'll try restarting my Macbook for good measure. >> >> Terry... >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > Dr Terry Judd Senior Lecturer in Medical Education Medical Education Unit Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences The University of Melbourne From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Thu Aug 29 04:03:47 2013 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 08:03:47 +0000 Subject: Can't open script editor In-Reply-To: <1377762472125-4669215.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <867D7904-B68F-423F-A421-312CDE2209F1@unimelb.edu.au> <1377762472125-4669215.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1F78E416-2D37-4AD7-A3ED-126B56ACB363@unimelb.edu.au> A restart fixed it for now but I have my eye on it ;) Terry... On 29/08/2013, at 05:47 PM, AndyP wrote: > Hi Terry, > > This looks like a bug in the rc3 version. Similar problems have been > reported on the Devlist. > > Best to submit the problem to the LiveCode Quality Control Centre > > http://quality.runrev.com/ > > > > > ----- > Andy Piddock > > > My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. > PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. > http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Can-t-open-script-editor-tp4669212p4669215.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > Dr Terry Judd Senior Lecturer in Medical Education Medical Education Unit Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences The University of Melbourne From ruslan_zasukhin at valentina-db.com Thu Aug 29 04:34:29 2013 From: ruslan_zasukhin at valentina-db.com (Ruslan Zasukhin) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 11:34:29 +0300 Subject: MySql vs Valentina In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8/28/13 9:03 PM, "AC Marketscout" wrote: Hi, > We are developing a new application using LiveCode. One requirement is > that there is some easy way to alter the underlying DB schema, on-the-fly, > by an administrator, who can then also immediately use it to make front-end > changes. I have heard Valentina supports tight integration with LiveCode > and that this may be possible. Yes, this is possible. Each aspect of db schema can be changed. > I?d like to know if this is true, and are there other benefits to using > Valentina as opposed to something like MySql (which we are also > considering). To better understand possible benefits of Valentina I advice you review in 5-30 minutes few our articles of such kind in Valentina WIKI Short and not complete list: * speed -- can be times faster of normal row-based dbs (mySQL, SQLite, postgre, MS SQL, ...) * smarter -- Valentina Data Model is extended Relational model. * simpler SQL -- because smarter :) * mySQL do all via SQL, Valentina have this way and API way. So if you have haer good words about Key/Value DBs, about non-SQL DBs, Then Valentina is a perfect example of such DB also .. Valentina is hybrid of many worlds. * recursive queries * SELECT for XML -> returns ready for use XML.. todo json * mySQL is SERVER ... And only. SQLite - local engine only Valentina have and SERVER and embedded engine ... so you have from box working both ways without any headacke. * Valentina Reports -- right now we prepare very interesting news and examples ... And so on ... Please ask more if you need. -- Best regards, Ruslan Zasukhin VP Engineering and New Technology Paradigma Software, Inc Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information http://www.paradigmasoft.com [I feel the need: the need for speed] From tate83 at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 04:30:02 2013 From: tate83 at gmail.com (Pascal Lehner) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:30:02 +0100 Subject: Datagrid: Edit row, save to database In-Reply-To: <8D176907-A934-4778-AD41-15976981AA7D@mac.com> References: <8D176907-A934-4778-AD41-15976981AA7D@mac.com> Message-ID: Thanks Bj?rnke, I somehow missed those two articles. Works exactly as hoped, especially in combination with several of those: *set* the dgColumnIsEditable["IngrCurrency"] of *group* "GridIngredients" to false Best regards, Pascal On 29 August 2013 00:48, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > sure, i suggest you check out the lessons, mosg dg stuff is documented > there: > > http://lessons.runrev.com/m/datagrid > > for example: > > http://lessons.runrev.com/s/lessons/m/datagrid/l/7314-how-do-i-add-a-row-of-data-to-an-existing-data-grid > or: > > http://lessons.runrev.com/s/lessons/m/datagrid/l/7337-how-do-i-save-changes-the-user-makes-in-an-editor-field-to-an-external-data-source > > On 28.08.2013, at 13:53, Pascal Lehner wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Sitting in the Indian sun and writing on my hobby project. (Sorry for > > that.. ;-) > > Couldn't be better if there wasn't that one thing I cannot figure out > just > > now. > > > > I load data from several tables (main table: ingredients) from a a SQLite > > database into a data grid. > > > > Now I wan't to provide an option to edit such displayed rows within the > > data grid. The user should be able to click on a certain field and then > > edit it however he wishes. When clicking save (or upon exiting this > field), > > these data should be saved back to the database. Kinda like Excel can do. > > Also, there is fields where he should be able to chose from a drop-down > > menu (like 'categories') since these are linked tables and I only store > the > > index no in the 'ingredients table'. > > > > Similarly, I wan't to provide an option to add new rows but I think > that's > > going to be a similar command/code. > > > > Is there an easy way to do that? > > If not, I might just display several fields with the data for him to edit > > below the grid but that probably isn't what a user expects from such a > > datagrid.. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Pascal > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > -- > > Use an alternative Dictionary viewer: > http://bjoernke.com/bvgdocu/ > > Chat with other RunRev developers: > http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From michael_livecode at nayyan.com Thu Aug 29 06:40:04 2013 From: michael_livecode at nayyan.com (Michael Mays) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:40:04 +0800 Subject: MySql vs Valentina In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1840EDD8-0B32-42DB-AF05-565C2CA8E53E@nayyan.com> On Aug 29, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote: > > To better understand possible benefits of Valentina I advice you review in > 5-30 minutes few our articles of such kind in Valentina WIKI > > :articles> I only needed 2 seconds. Very informative. Broken link. This topic does not exist yet From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 06:54:00 2013 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:54:00 +0800 Subject: MySql vs Valentina In-Reply-To: <1840EDD8-0B32-42DB-AF05-565C2CA8E53E@nayyan.com> References: <1840EDD8-0B32-42DB-AF05-565C2CA8E53E@nayyan.com> Message-ID: I think that's because the link is not represented in the mail List correctly. Everything betwenen < and > needs to appear on one line. I show the last :articles> appearing on the second line and not part of the hyperlink. But even if you go to the 'This topic does not exist yet' page, in the left hand column is the 'Articles' link; 3rd from the top. Not too hard to find. On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 6:40 PM, Michael Mays wrote: > > On Aug 29, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Ruslan Zasukhin < > ruslan_zasukhin at valentina-db.com> wrote: > > > > To better understand possible benefits of Valentina I advice you review > in > > 5-30 minutes few our articles of such kind in Valentina WIKI > > > > < > http://www.valentina-db.com/docs/dokuwiki/v5/doku.php?id=valentina:articles > > :articles> > > I only needed 2 seconds. Very informative. Broken link. > > This topic does not exist yet > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 29 06:57:01 2013 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:57:01 +0200 Subject: MySql vs Valentina In-Reply-To: <1840EDD8-0B32-42DB-AF05-565C2CA8E53E@nayyan.com> References: <1840EDD8-0B32-42DB-AF05-565C2CA8E53E@nayyan.com> Message-ID: <521F28FD.9020001@economy-x-talk.com> Michael, http://qery.us/3yz -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi Fill out this survey please http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ On 8/29/2013 12:40, Michael Mays wrote: > > On Aug 29, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote: >> >> To better understand possible benefits of Valentina I advice you review in >> 5-30 minutes few our articles of such kind in Valentina WIKI >> >> > :articles> > > I only needed 2 seconds. Very informative. Broken link. > > This topic does not exist yet > From pmbrig at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 07:38:14 2013 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 07:38:14 -0400 Subject: Windows standalone puzzle In-Reply-To: References: <13344C8D-6333-4354-9120-EFFAB97539DF@gmail.com> <7FF0BD50-7FF4-4A63-A36C-28ECCA2B4523@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I started out using an ellipsis but then I ran into the Mac/Windows font inconsistencies in another context. It took me a month of intermittent experimenting to discover how to use a