[even more OT] Talking Heads

[Richard Gaskin]

Peter Alcibiades wrote:

> Probably Richard Gaskin is mistaken for a similar reason
> in saying that "All open source applications that run on
> Windows, Mac, or any other non-FOSS OS are just as
> "proprietary" as any Rev project released under similar
> license."
>
> No, not really.  If its OSS, you have the source, and you have
> free access (not financially, but as in speech) to any tools
> required.  And indeed to the source code of those tools.  So
> you can port it to any OS you like, including non-free ones.
> The fact that if so ported it then runs on a non-free OS
> however does not say anything about whether the app itself is
> free. It is free in virtue of having been written in OSS tools
> and in virtue of the fact that users have the OSS rights.

Are you saying any truly FOSS app must have originated on Linux or other
FOSS OS before being ported to a closed OS like Windows to be considered
"free"?

That would be a curious definition, but perhaps necessary, as otherwise
the distinction is an arbitrary one:

- To develop an application in C you can use GCC (FOSS) with an
   engine called Mac OS or Windows (closed).

   To develop an app in Transcript you can use the MetaCard IDE (FOSS;
   MIT license, specifically) with an engine called Revolution (closed).


- You can port your C-based app to a non-closed OS for the low cost
   of writing that OS yourself or getting a friend to do it for you.

   You can port your Transcript-based app to a non-closed engine for
   the low cost of writing that engine yourself or getting a friend
   to do it for you.


- When working on Mac or Windows, you are required to have paid the
   vendor to obtain a license to do so.

   When scripting with Rev, you're actually somewhat freer in that you
   can work within the scriptLimits for free, but any serious work
   requires you to have paid the vendor for a license to do so.


- The source code for OS X and Windows is not available.

   The source code for Revolution is not available.


In any practical sense, one cannot write applications which run on
closed source systems without using close source APIs, paying a license
fee, and agreeing to be bound by the license terms.  This is true with
Windows, Mac OS, and Revolution.


> I'm not doctrinaire about the use of non-OSS apps and tools
> (obviously, being a Rev licensee!).  Use them all we want.
>  But it is quite important to see things for what they are,
> and it is fair enough, stuff written in Rev cannot be OSS.

...depending on where in the sand one prefers to draw lines.

While things appear "what they are" to you, to others the parallels 
above are equally self-evident.


> Whether this matters is a different issue.

Well said.


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com