Engelbart and Kay --was: Back to the Future with Hypercard

[Judy Perry]

Joe,

It's an OSS PPC Emulator that you can run HC in.  From
http://sheepshaver.cebix.net/ :

What is SheepShaver?

SheepShaver is a MacOS run-time environment for BeOS and Linux that
allows you to run classic MacOS applications inside the BeOS/Linux
multitasking environment. This means that both BeOS/Linux and MacOS
applications can run at the same time (usually in a window on the
BeOS/Linux desktop) and data can be exchanged between them. If you are
using a PowerPC-based system, applications will run at native speed
(i.e. with no emulation involved). There is also a built-in PowerPC
emulator for non-PowerPC systems.

SheepShaver is distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public
License (GPL). However, you still need a copy of MacOS and a PowerMac
ROM image to use SheepShaver. If you're planning to run SheepShaver on
a PowerMac, you probably already have these two items.

Supported systems

SheepShaver runs with varying degree of functionality on the following systems:

BeOS/PPC R4/R5
Linux/ppc
Linux/ia32 (AKA x86)
Linux/amd64 (Opteron, Athlon64)
Darwin/ppc
Some of SheepShaver's features

Runs MacOS 7.5.2 thru 9.0.4. MacOS X is not supported.
Color video display
CD quality sound output
Access to floppy disks, CD-ROMs and HFS(+) partitions on hard disks
Easy file exchange with the host OS via a "Host Directory Tree" icon
on the Mac desktop
Internet and LAN networking via Ethernet
Serial drivers
SCSI Manager (old-style) emulation

Judy

On Jan 1, 2008 6:53 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins <pepetoo at cox.net> wrote:
> Mark,
>
> Thanks for taking the time to point out all of these comparisons. I
> agree with most all; particularly your message box commentary. BTW,
> what is "Sheep Shaver"?
>
> Joe Wilkins
>
>
> On Jan 1, 2008, at 6:16 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:
>
> > Hi Bill,
> >
> > First, I'd like to wish everybody on this list a Happy New Year.
> >
> > Bill, I know we both agree that HyperCard is great software and
> > that Revolution is capable of much more than HyperCard. If I take
> > your list literally, however, I believe that most features on your
> > list were available in HyperCard one way or another. I'm also a
> > little supprised by some of the features you include in the list,
> > because they don't work in Revolution the way I would expect them to.
> >
> > Without going into details, I'd like to go through your list and
> > comment on each item. Please be aware that I don't mean to be
> > offensive and I have no desire to start an endless discussion.
> >
> > Op 28-dec-2007, om 11:43 heeft Bill Marriott het volgende geschreven:
> >
> >> I recall when HyperCard was new and it was an exciting time for
> >> certain. The
> >> video certainly brings back fond memories.
> >>
> >> Randall Lee Reetz wrote...
> >>> I keep thinking we are way over due building for today what
> >>> hypercard was twenty years ago.  I dont thing color and
> >>> multi-platform quite measure up to the challange.
> >>
> >> What about
> >>
> >> - Easy and powerful Internet functionality
> >
> > In HC, this was no problem with a few externals or AppleScript.
> >
> >> - Ability to command a variety of multimedia
> >
> > HyperCard can play QuickTime movies and dispay them on a card, just
> > like Revolution.
> >
> >> - Object-oriented graphics
> >
> > With AddColor and other externals one may achieve astonoshing
> > effects in HyperCard and given the hardware of those days one
> > didn't need much more (but I admit, as Judy pointed out, there was
> > no "real" colorisation and I believe that HyperCard not having
> > built-in colorisation was a bit weird).
> >
> >> - XML support
> >
> > You had to do this yourself, parsing XML with plain HyperTalk is
> > not impossible.
> >
> >> - Arrays
> >
> > True, not available in HC, but I never missed them until they
> > became available in Revolution.
> >
> >> - Encryption
> >
> > One would have to use an external in HyerCard, to deal with the
> > binary data.
> >
> >> - Greatly enhanced speed of execution
> >
> > On my Mac Intel, running in SheepShaver, HyperCard is much faster
> > than Revolution, except if used a number cruncher. I didn't do any
> > serious benchmarking though, so I'm sure you'll find tasks that
> > Revolution does more quickly than HyperCard.
> >
> >> - Flexible groups
> >
> > Didn't need those in HyperCard.
> >
> >> - Regular expressions
> >
> > One might have wished for those in HC, but HC has the fastest and
> > most clever search engine ever created, so I never missed regex.
> >
> >> - Inline graphics in fields
> >
> > Yup, didn't have those. Never missed them, though, and I rarely use
> > them in Rev and when I use them (for file lists and hierarchical
> > collapsible lists) it is actually a workaround for another feature
> > that isn't available in Rev.
> >
> >> - Database/SQL support
> >
> > One did't need those in HyperCard, since HyperCard itself is the
> > most clever database ever created and could be made available on-
> > line using CGI. Cool!
> >
> >> - Additional chunk expressions
> >
> > It is true that Revolution has more chunk expressions, but I
> > wouldn't call this an essential feature.
> >
> >> - Alpha mode blending and window shapes
> >
> > True, graphics is an issue in HC (see above), but keep also in mind
> > that hardware standards of those days didn't really call for
> > sophisticated graphics. Window shapes were actually possible with
> > an external, but I never used those because it was too big a fuzz
> > (Udi made a very nice external for this). Even though HyperCard
> > didn't have anything comparable to Rev's inks, it was certainly
> > possible to display pictures with transparent area's correctly. It
> > was even possible to make pictures partly transparent, making
> > visible the background behind it.
> >
> >> - Custom properties and property profiles
> >
> > Property profiles didn't work in Rev for a long time, I don't know
> > whether they are currently functional. Custom properties are a nice
> > thing in Rev, but there are other ways to do this in HC.
> >
> >> - Multi-statement message box
> >
> > Never missed this in HC and in my personal view the Rev message box
> > is too cluttered with stuff I don't need and too buggy. Usually, I
> > use a stack with a field and execute code in that field with the do
> > command. I did the same in HC.
> >
> >> - Built-in objects like progress bars, tab controls and sliders
> >
> > There are externals available for HC to display progress bars and I
> > emulated controls, such as tab controls, which were not natively
> > available.
> >
> >> - Tables
> >
> > Tables in Revolution are emulated. There are externals for
> > HyperCard that do a better job, often with a limit on data size,
> > though.
> >
> >> - High-quality visual effects
> >
> > At the time, visual effects were quite sophisticated in HC. Of
> > course, new hardware creates more possibilities.
> >
> >> - Unicode support
> >
> > Unicode in HC is better than in Rev. In HC, you don't need to think
> > about the fact that it is Unicode. It just works.
> >
> >> - Easy-to-use Geometry Manager
> >
> > Please, don't use the Geometry Manager. Also, if you wanted to, you
> > could do exactly the same in HyperCard by script.
> >
> >> - Ability to run as CGI on web servers
> >
> > When HyperCard became available, one would have one's own server.
> > So, I'd consider this a non-issue. If your web-server had Mac OS 6
> > or later, you could run HC as CGI engine.
> >
> >> - Referenced controls
> >
> > In HyperCard, all movies, colour pictures etc. would be referenced,
> > even if you saved them in the resource fork. I think that the big
> > advantage of Rev is that movies and pictures can be embedded.
> >
> >> - Enhanced debugging
> >
> > I've never seen a better debugging system than HC, particularly in
> > comparison with Revolution's.
> >
> > Nonetheless, Revolution allows for releasing commercial products
> > without the user knowing that the product was created in an xTalk
> > platform. Considering the quality of end-products, Revolution is
> > largely comparable with XCode and Visual Basic. HC cannot be
> > compared with the different flavours of C and Pascal available for
> > the Mac in the old days. So, we both agree that it is easier to
> > create high-quality software with Revolution than in HyperCard, and
> > there are even many things that one wouldn't even try to do in
> > HyperCard. Obviously, Revolution being cross-platoform is a huge
> > advantage over both HyperCard and SuperCard. However, I strongly
> > feel that your list of missing features doesn't do justice to the
> > genius of the teams who developed HyperCard.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Mark Schonewille
> >
>
>
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