From harrison at all-auctions.com Sat Jul 1 00:11:13 2006 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 00:11:13 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1012FDAA-F123-4425-9C6B-9CBF98274A62@all-auctions.com> On Jun 30, 2006, at 11:10 PM, GregSmith wrote: > > I know that this decision lies with those that represent the > interests of > Runtime Revolution and its development, but, I do think the overall > survival > of the RunRev platform of development lies in the answer to this > question. > Will the developers support or supply a direct means of displaying > Revolution authored content in a standard web browser, or not? Or, > maybe > preferred, will independent developers develop a direct QuickTime > or Flash > translator that would preserve most of the functionality of a > Revolution > stack for deployment via a standard web browser? Or, will they > not, or do > they not favor such a development? > > Sincerely, > > Greg Smith Greg, I'm just a programmer/user like you are, and I don't know anything about Revolution's plans for the future. I would have to say from what little I know about such things, that it is rather tall order for stacks to run on the web in the way you are describing. If they can do it, yes things would become quite magical in that world. I think the hard truth is that it is probably too difficult a task to accomplish in the near future. Keep wishing anyway! Rick From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Sat Jul 1 00:43:59 2006 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 21:43:59 -0700 Subject: Purchase help Message-ID: Hi everyone, I am at a point of deciding which way to upgrade my Rev license... I compile apps for my own project/business use Been so busy that I missed the anniv date to early renew have 4 Macs and 4 WinXP machines currently use Studio 6.4.1 Mac, 2.5.1 XP, 2.7.2 (2 days left on trial) on the Duo Just added a Duo and 2 Solos, so 2.7.2 is required for them Now have the need to use the SSL lib so is the bottom line to buy the Enterprise Edition 2.7.2 and get both platforms (since I need to do some debugging/compiling on both platforms) and the SSL included? versus 300 [mac] + 200 [win]+ 200 [ssl] Thanks for any recommendations. Jim Ault Las Vegas From jonkotthoff at clarionstl.com Sat Jul 1 02:11:20 2006 From: jonkotthoff at clarionstl.com (Jonathan Kotthoff) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 01:11:20 -0500 Subject: Buttons within Quicktime Movies References: <38AF304E-1EAF-48F2-90DF-62EF86ECE6F0@dvcreators.net><2CDC7964-A79B-431C-9020-CBAB171D3B45@maseurope.net> Message-ID: <005101c69cd5$2bdb0960$1b01a8c0@Jonathan> Hello all: I have brought this up before...but, thought I would give it one more try...I produce a lot of multimedia applications/kiosks that compete with what alot of the market provides as Director of Flash applications...The DB and Web integration that Revolution allows me, gives my applications a real backend advantage to these apps...but the feature that kills me everyday is my inability to create buttons on top of or withing QuickTime applications...I realize that I can create Sprites within QT movies and have done this in the past, but this requires me resorting to C++ or going into LiveStage Pro...Which is not the ideal...I and many others could knock the competition out of the water and thus create more demand for this our beloved product, if I could just have the ability to create buttons (invisible or not) on top of or within QT movies... For the record I do realize that Revs inability to do this is tied to its utilization of the QT library and how QT dislplays itself within the OS environment...but part of me things that some creative engineering could overcome this problem...for example, a Hook installed at the os level could caprture all clicks within a QT window space and pass them to Rev...this could be installed on Mac OS X or Windows as a rev library... Anyone want to chime in on there agreement, disagreement, ideas? Thanks, Jonathan Kotthoff Director of Media & Technology Menlo Park Concepts From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Jul 1 02:19:18 2006 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 01:19:18 -0500 Subject: Buttons within Quicktime Movies In-Reply-To: <005101c69cd5$2bdb0960$1b01a8c0@Jonathan> References: <38AF304E-1EAF-48F2-90DF-62EF86ECE6F0@dvcreators.net><2CDC7964-A79B-431C-9020-CBAB171D3B45@maseurope.net> <005101c69cd5$2bdb0960$1b01a8c0@Jonathan> Message-ID: <44A613E6.2010204@hyperactivesw.com> Jonathan Kotthoff wrote: > ...but the > feature that kills me everyday is my inability to create buttons on top > of or withing QuickTime applications... You can, if you set the alwaysBuffer property of the player to true. When alwaysBuffer is true, you can layer other objects on top of players. However, you lose the user of the controller when you do this, and you'll have to script buttons to start and stop playback. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From wjm at wjm.org Sat Jul 1 02:50:33 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 02:50:33 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? References: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com> <1012FDAA-F123-4425-9C6B-9CBF98274A62@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: Not impossible. As I mentioned earlier, Apple demonstrated a browser plug-in for HyperCard. SuperCard had a similar plug-in. Such a facility would dramatically increase the value of writing in Rev. "Quite magical," indeed. Rick Harrison wrote > it is rather tall order for stacks to run on > the web in the way you are describing. > > If they can do it, yes things would become quite magical in that world. > I think the hard truth is that it is probably too difficult a task to > accomplish in the near future. From jonkotthoff at clarionstl.com Sat Jul 1 03:30:12 2006 From: jonkotthoff at clarionstl.com (Jonathan Kotthoff) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 02:30:12 -0500 Subject: Buttons within Quicktime Movies References: <38AF304E-1EAF-48F2-90DF-62EF86ECE6F0@dvcreators.net><2CDC7964-A79B-431C-9020-CBAB171D3B45@maseurope.net> <005101c69cd5$2bdb0960$1b01a8c0@Jonathan> <44A613E6.2010204@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <005a01c69ce0$306153d0$1b01a8c0@Jonathan> Jay: I realize this...but in all of my real world tests...this does not actually funtionc correctly...Rev begins to have all sorts of playback artifacts...etc...I wish it were not the case...and if I am missing something I would love to know...but the videos I am playing are 640 by 480...full screen kiosks and CDS, and I have never gotten the alwaysBuffer property to correct the problem... Thanks, Jonathan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Landman Gay" To: "How to use Revolution" Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 1:19 AM Subject: Re: Buttons within Quicktime Movies > Jonathan Kotthoff wrote: >> ...but the feature that kills me everyday is my inability to create >> buttons on top of or withing QuickTime applications... > > You can, if you set the alwaysBuffer property of the player to true. When > alwaysBuffer is true, you can layer other objects on top of players. > However, you lose the user of the controller when you do this, and you'll > have to script buttons to start and stop playback. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 05:39:48 2006 From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:39:48 +1000 Subject: Maximum image size In-Reply-To: <3f07cc260606302054g3cab30a8k290f4e0fa9780125@mail.gmail.com> References: <200606261901.k5QJ1uUt013927@ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com> <3f07cc260606302054g3cab30a8k290f4e0fa9780125@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Here's a post from Scott Raney on bugzilla (bug 1859) where he talks about > the image size limits on the Mac: > > This is a fundamental limitation in the MacOS image architecture: the rowBytes > field of the PixMap image structure has a maximum value of 4000 (hex) which on > a 32-bit display works out to 4096 pixels. (see > http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Carbon/Reference/QuickDraw_Ref/qdref_m > ain/data_type_41.html). This can be worked around but only by writing a lot > of code to handle all the manipulation using local instead of OS routines, so > for now I'm downgrading to an enhancement and reassigning to Tuv (since I no > longer do Mac development). > > So 4096 X 4096 seems to be the current image size limit. But I'm sure I read > somewhere that this was going to be "fixed" in an upcoming version of Rev, > where this limitation (I believe it's a limitation of QuickDraw) will be > removed. Thanks for that Howard. From my testing, the limit is still there in the current version of Rev. I have been checking for images with any dimension greater than 4000 so that's probably a safe margin. However it sounds like this is Mac only, so I can ignore the size of images in Windows. Cheers, Sarah From klaus at major-k.de Sat Jul 1 05:50:48 2006 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 11:50:48 +0200 Subject: Get a Free Copy of Shade 7 Designer - 3D Software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jim, > OK, now I've found it, downloaded the Mac version (only 1.5 hours > fortunately). How do I open it? I double click the file and my > Mac OS > 10.4.6 thinks it's an Excel file. Anyone know what's going on > here?... Jim Neither did I download the package nor do I know what's going on over there :-) But I strongly guess the package does have the file suffix "*.sit" and therefore you need "Stuffit Expander" to expand and istall the package? If yes, then go to: and download the free version, which was part of the OS X distribution in earlier days but is no more today, unfortunately. Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com Sat Jul 1 07:15:45 2006 From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 08:15:45 -0300 Subject: Get a Free Copy of Shade 7 Designer - 3D Software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Klaus... I should have included the file name as it may give the pertinent clue... Shade 7.2.1 designer LE (ESD).d So, as I type this, I suspect the .d should be .dmg with mg being cut off by the character limitation of the OS... Some bright soul probably added the (ESD) in the download name and didn't actually test a download on a Mac. This would be entirely in character with the moron who designed the web sites I had to tangle with - all for the sake of displaying a rendered schooner hull without spending a king's ransom on the software... So I copied the file, dropped the (ESD) and added the mg to the d in the file name and ta da it was a dmg and it opened fine... Jim on 7/1/06 6:50 AM, Klaus Major wrote: > Hi Jim, > >> OK, now I've found it, downloaded the Mac version (only 1.5 hours >> fortunately). How do I open it? I double click the file and my >> Mac OS >> 10.4.6 thinks it's an Excel file. Anyone know what's going on >> here?... Jim > > Neither did I download the package nor do I know what's going on over > there :-) > > But I strongly guess the package does have the file suffix "*.sit" > and therefore > you need "Stuffit Expander" to expand and istall the package? > > If yes, then go to: > > > > and download the free version, which was part of the OS X distribution > in earlier days but is no more today, unfortunately. > > > Regards > > Klaus Major > klaus at major-k.de > http://www.major-k.de > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 From klaus at major-k.de Sat Jul 1 07:26:37 2006 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 13:26:37 +0200 Subject: Get a Free Copy of Shade 7 Designer - 3D Software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E166944-2FEE-4FF4-87CF-E273D69C936B@major-k.de> Hi Jim, > Hi Klaus... I should have included the file name as it may give the > pertinent clue... > Shade 7.2.1 designer LE (ESD).d > So, as I type this, I suspect the .d should be .dmg with mg being > cut off by Ah, i see, well, a shot in the dark :-) > the character limitation of the OS... OS X does support long filenames actually!? > Some bright soul probably added the (ESD) in the download name and > didn't > actually test a download on a Mac. This would be entirely in > character with > the moron who designed the web sites I had to tangle with - all for > the sake > of displaying a rendered schooner hull without spending a king's > ransom on > the software... :-) > So I copied the file, dropped the (ESD) and added the mg to the d > in the > file name and ta da it was a dmg and it opened fine... Jim A happy ending, love it ;-) Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com Sat Jul 1 07:32:55 2006 From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 08:32:55 -0300 Subject: Get a Free Copy of Shade 7 Designer - 3D Software In-Reply-To: <9E166944-2FEE-4FF4-87CF-E273D69C936B@major-k.de> Message-ID: I have always had the OS truncate any file name longer than 31 characters and I'm running OS 10.4.6. Maybe there is a prefs setting I can change... Jim on 7/1/06 8:26 AM, Klaus Major wrote: > OS X does support long filenames actually!? -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 From robmann at gp-racing.com Sat Jul 1 07:53:47 2006 From: robmann at gp-racing.com (Robert Mann) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 07:53:47 -0400 Subject: saving problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I seem to have a problem saving with 2.7.2 build 261 yesterday I made quit a few changes to one of my stacks, as I am working I click the save every 5 or 10 minutes, well this morning open up the stack none of my changes are there. So I started over this time I only made a few changes than saved and closed rev, reopen stack changes not there, what could be going on? Robert Mann President GP Racing LLC From robmann at gp-racing.com Sat Jul 1 08:07:00 2006 From: robmann at gp-racing.com (Robert Mann) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 08:07:00 -0400 Subject: saving problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: fixed my bad lost power the other and my server was reset not to allow changes to files, but I never got a error from rev telling me that it could not save but instead kept saying save completed? Robert Mann President GP Racing LLC -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Robert Mann Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 6:54 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: saving problem I seem to have a problem saving with 2.7.2 build 261 yesterday I made quit a few changes to one of my stacks, as I am working I click the save every 5 or 10 minutes, well this morning open up the stack none of my changes are there. So I started over this time I only made a few changes than saved and closed rev, reopen stack changes not there, what could be going on? Robert Mann President GP Racing LLC _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Sat Jul 1 08:36:32 2006 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 08:36:32 -0400 Subject: Purchase help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jim, For what it's worth, I bought the Enterprise license and have never regretted it. Tom On Jul 1, 2006, at 12:43 AM, Jim Ault wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I am at a point of deciding which way to upgrade my Rev license... > > I compile apps for my own project/business use > Been so busy that I missed the anniv date to early renew > > have 4 Macs and 4 WinXP machines > currently use > Studio 6.4.1 Mac, > 2.5.1 XP, > 2.7.2 (2 days left on trial) on the Duo > > Just added a Duo and 2 Solos, so 2.7.2 is required for them > > Now have the need to use the SSL lib > > so is the bottom line to buy the Enterprise Edition 2.7.2 and get both > platforms (since I need to do some debugging/compiling on both > platforms) > and the SSL included? > > versus 300 [mac] + 200 [win]+ 200 [ssl] > > Thanks for any recommendations. > > Jim Ault > Las Vegas > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Thomas J McGrath III 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Lazy River Software - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com Lazy River Metal Art? - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/metal.html Meeting Wear - http://www.cafepress.com/meetingwear Semantic Compaction Systems - http://www.minspeak.com SCIconics, LLC - http://www.sciconics.com/sciindex.html From simplsol at aol.com Sat Jul 1 09:55:57 2006 From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 09:55:57 -0400 Subject: Purchase help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C86B2D3611ABF4-14A8-8ECB@FWM-D45.sysops.aol.com> Jim, For your use, with mixed platforms, Enterprise is probably the best bet. Paul Looney -----Original Message----- From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> To: How to use Revolution Sent: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 08:36:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Purchase help Jim,? ? For what it's worth, I bought the Enterprise license and have never regretted it.? ? Tom? ? On Jul 1, 2006, at 12:43 AM, Jim Ault wrote:? ? > Hi everyone,? >? > I am at a point of deciding which way to upgrade my Rev license...? >? > I compile apps for my own project/business use? > Been so busy that I missed the anniv date to early renew? >? > have 4 Macs and 4 WinXP machines? > currently use? > Studio 6.4.1 Mac,? > 2.5.1 XP,? > 2.7.2 (2 days left on trial) on the Duo? >? > Just added a Duo and 2 Solos, so 2.7.2 is required for them? >? > Now have the need to use the SSL lib? >? > so is the bottom line to buy the Enterprise Edition 2.7.2 and get both? > platforms (since I need to do some debugging/compiling on both > platforms)? > and the SSL included?? >? > versus 300 [mac] + 200 [win]+ 200 [ssl]? >? > Thanks for any recommendations.? >? > Jim Ault? > Las Vegas? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > use-revolution mailing list? > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com? > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences:? > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution? ? Thomas J McGrath III? 3mcgrath at adelphia.net? ? Lazy River Software - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com? ? Lazy River Metal Art? - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/metal.html? ? Meeting Wear - http://www.cafepress.com/meetingwear? ? Semantic Compaction Systems - http://www.minspeak.com? ? SCIconics, LLC - http://www.sciconics.com/sciindex.html? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________? use-revolution mailing list? use-revolution at lists.runrev.com? Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:? http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution? ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. From briany at qldlearning.com Sat Jul 1 10:52:43 2006 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 07:52:43 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: References: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com> <1012FDAA-F123-4425-9C6B-9CBF98274A62@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <80469c8ba243e57fdbdac667be568b82@qldlearning.com> Supercard's plugin - "Roadster" was extremely buggy and Mac-only. Hypercard was demonstrated as becoming integrated with Quicktime - not quite the same as a browser plugin and no guarantee of anything in particular. Both efforts ultimately were total failures for one reason or another, and neither product had a fraction of the toolset of Rev. They weren't even cross-platform. Note that Supercard is still alive, but the browser plugin is not- and it's still Mac only. A useful browser plugin for a Rev-like tool doesn't even make much technical sense. Sure, there are instances where an HTML export can work (say you are building a slideshow app) or a Flash export of your animation, or a Quicktime export of something else. There are other tools for delivery in a browser. You are much better off learning some of them, than trying to make Revolution live inside a browser window. Not too mention that if your product really MUST live inside a browser window, a large portion of many markets will just walk away when you ask them to install a new plugin. I don't mind if people really want to keep discussing this and find it interesting, but please consider the evidence that it's extremely unlikely to happen anytime soon - and quite possibly ever. Maybe we can shift the focus here. What kind of *specific* export tools would be good projects for Rev - and better suited than the already existing tools for those formats? - Brian > Not impossible. As I mentioned earlier, Apple demonstrated a browser > plug-in > for HyperCard. SuperCard had a similar plug-in. Such a facility would > dramatically increase the value of writing in Rev. "Quite magical," > indeed. > > > Rick Harrison wrote >> it is rather tall order for stacks to run on >> the web in the way you are describing. >> >> If they can do it, yes things would become quite magical in that >> world. >> I think the hard truth is that it is probably too difficult a task to >> accomplish in the near future. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From rcozens at pon.net Sat Jul 1 11:01:37 2006 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 08:01:37 -0700 Subject: Maximum image size In-Reply-To: References: <200606261901.k5QJ1uUt013927@ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com> <3f07cc260606302054g3cab30a8k290f4e0fa9780125@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060701075129.019b5010@pon.net> G'day Sarah, >I have been checking for images with any >dimension greater than 4000 so that's probably a safe margin. However >it sounds like this is Mac only, so I can ignore the size of images in >Windows. I haven't worked with anything larger than 5 Mpx (2576x1932);but I encountered no problems with MacOSX Rev v2.1.2 and WinXP Rev2.7. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From lists at mangomultimedia.com Sat Jul 1 11:35:37 2006 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 08:35:37 -0700 Subject: Buttons within Quicktime Movies In-Reply-To: <005101c69cd5$2bdb0960$1b01a8c0@Jonathan> References: <38AF304E-1EAF-48F2-90DF-62EF86ECE6F0@dvcreators.net><2CDC7964-A79B-431C-9020-CBAB171D3B45@maseurope.net> <005101c69cd5$2bdb0960$1b01a8c0@Jonathan> Message-ID: <83B730C7-46A0-4FA5-9B3A-AF985A0C03DA@mangomultimedia.com> On Jun 30, 2006, at 11:11 PM, Jonathan Kotthoff wrote: > Hello all: > > I have brought this up before...but, thought I would give it one > more try...I produce a lot of multimedia applications/kiosks that > compete with what alot of the market provides as Director of Flash > applications...The DB and Web integration that Revolution allows > me, gives my applications a real backend advantage to these > apps...but the feature that kills me everyday is my inability to > create buttons on top of or withing QuickTime applications...I > realize that I can create Sprites within QT movies and have done > this in the past, but this requires me resorting to C++ or going > into LiveStage Pro...Which is not the ideal...I and many others > could knock the competition out of the water and thus create more > demand for this our beloved product, if I could just have the > ability to create buttons (invisible or not) on top of or within QT > movies... Hi Jonathan, I recall seeing some QT API that will "knock-out" portions of a QT movie so QT doesn't draw that section to screen (meaning you could put a Rev button there) but I would be surprised if this gets implemented in Rev. Even though I don't know what your end goal is in putting buttons over QT movies here are some thoughts that come to mind that may be of use - > For the record I do realize that Revs inability to do this is tied > to its utilization of the QT library and how QT dislplays itself > within the OS environment...but part of me things that some > creative engineering could overcome this problem...for example, a > Hook installed at the os level could caprture all clicks within a > QT window space and pass them to Rev...this could be installed on > Mac OS X or Windows as a rev library... > > Anyone want to chime in on there agreement, disagreement, ideas? Invisible buttons: You can already get clicks in the QT window space. A player object receives all mouse messages. So if you just want to create invisible hotspots then you can capture mouse clicks in a player and check them against some predefined invisible hotspots rectangles that you define. Buttons using Sprites: You mention that creating buttons using sprites isn't ideal. I assume this means that it would work but there is something in the workflow that is wanting. Perhaps you could create the following workflow: 1) Create a template - Create movie in LiveStage Pro that has a few buttons in it. These buttons should get their label and size from a QTList store in the movie. There should be an event in the movie that will read the QTList and then position the buttons. Each button would send a message to the rev player object when clicked. 2) Create a little tool in Revolution that enables you to drop buttons onto some object that represents the movie. You would then convert the positions of those buttons into the XML that you can assign to the QTList of a player object. This QTList is used by your template (step 1) to position buttons. 3) Open template movie in hidden player object. 4) Open movie that needs button layers in Revolution player object. 5) Assign QTList created in step 2 to player object (step 4). You can use the EnhancedQT external for this. 6) Composite the template movie with (step 3) with your movie (step 4) and call the Event that creates the buttons (EnhancedQT). If this works, you would create one wired QT movie that can dynamically name and position it's buttons anywhere. This can be composited with any movie you wish and position buttons accordingly. Would something like this work? -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems - www.bluemangolearning.com trevor at bluemangolearning.com From jspencer78 at mac.com Sat Jul 1 13:22:05 2006 From: jspencer78 at mac.com (James Spencer) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 12:22:05 -0500 Subject: Valentina external on OS X Message-ID: I'm trying to try out the demo Valentina external without success so far. Attempts to initialize with: get Valentina_Init( 10 * 1024 * 1024 ) fails with a syntax error, I assume because the external is not being seen by Rev. I've set my stack's exteral property to: "/Applications/Revolution Studio/2.7.2-gm-1/Externals/Database Drivers/VXCMD_macho.bundle" which appears to be the correct path to the external. Any guesses as to what is wrong here? G5 running OS 10.4.7 and Rev Studio 2.7.2. Spence James P. Spencer Rochester, MN jspencer78 at mac.com "Badges?? We don't need no stinkin badges!" From katir at hindu.org Sat Jul 1 05:41:15 2006 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:41:15 -1000 Subject: Long FileName Grief: need work around! Message-ID: <84CC0122-C4FD-42DD-AAB4-33A4C666733A@hindu.org> Ok the problem of long file names on the Mac not working in Revolution continues to "bite me" at every turn... Here's the latest. I am processing some text files by dragging them onto a button in a mini data base (rev stack with about 1200 card... not big...) that loads the text file into a field, Then my script renames the file to another folder. The problem is the renamed filename is hashed if it is too long. Any work arounds? Did anyone do any begging at RevCon West to solve this bug? (it's been on BugZilla for literally 3-4 years....) --> all handlers on dragEnter set the acceptDrop to true end dragEnter on dragDrop put dragData["files"] into tPath put url ("file:/"& tPath) into fld "transcript" set the itemdel to "/" put item -1 of tPath into tFileName rename file tPath to ("/users/katir/desktop/audio transcripts/ loaded to dBase-not on web yet/" & tFileName) end dragDrop Original File name will be something like: January071999_Personal_Testimony_of_trip_to_Mount_Kailash-Himalayas.txt And renamed file becomes, max 32 chars: January071999_PersonC#1FFA28.txt ouch! :-) there's no recovery... fortunately I only tried one... and will test on copies in the future. There's probably a work around but I don't know what it would be. I tried the shell command "mv" from terminal and it works, but when transposed to a script it fails: well, it moves and renames the file, but the file name is hashed again. put "mv " & quote & tPath & quote && quote & "/users/katir/desktop/ taka-audio transcripts/loaded to dBase but not on TAKA/" & tFileName & quote into tCmd get shell (tCmd) # this same cmd will work from the terminal # and preserve the long file name, why not here? put the result TIA Sivakatirswami From katir at hindu.org Sat Jul 1 05:49:17 2006 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:49:17 -1000 Subject: Sub-stack deleted! Message-ID: I was working in a stack trying to solve a long file name problem (see other memo) and when I went to save, one of the substacks (contained all the data!) was gone. this used to happen a long time ago...fortunately I can go back to our raid Array and get a copy from yesterday from Retrospect, but lost all of today's work... Good lesson, intensive work may want continuous back ups.. I've been spoiled by Rev..have had only two such problems in 3 years... From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Sat Jul 1 15:16:27 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 12:16:27 -0700 Subject: Viewing or extracting .icns files? In-Reply-To: <002d01c69a2f$e5293020$6401a8c0@lynn> References: <002d01c69a2f$e5293020$6401a8c0@lynn> Message-ID: <44A6CA0B.9090203@paraboliclogic.com> Rev 2.6.1 / OS X Greetings, Does anybody know if it's possible to either view the icon files or extract the icon files from a OS X .icns file? Or, view or extract icon files from Windows .exe, .dll or resource files? Thanks, -Garrett From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sat Jul 1 15:28:50 2006 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:28:50 +0200 Subject: Smart card reader Message-ID: Hi, On Mac OS X : I'm trrying to connect to a card reader to view the Belgian Electronic ID card. There is no wiewer for mac. So I'm trying to get a connection and read from the card in Revolution I've installed the driver for the reader and when I type in the terminal : /usr/local/bin/belpic-tool -a I get the message that I'm connected to the card reader but cannot read the card. Is there a way to connect to such a reader and view what's on the card from revolution ? Thank you. Greetings. Yves COPPE yvescoppe at skynet.be From klaus at major-k.de Sat Jul 1 15:31:47 2006 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:31:47 +0200 Subject: Viewing or extracting .icns files? In-Reply-To: <44A6CA0B.9090203@paraboliclogic.com> References: <002d01c69a2f$e5293020$6401a8c0@lynn> <44A6CA0B.9090203@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: Hi Garrett, > Rev 2.6.1 / OS X > > Greetings, > > Does anybody know if it's possible to either view the icon files or > extract the icon files from a OS X .icns file? on OS X you can use "Preview" to view and also extract *.ics files :-) > Or, view or extract icon files from Windows .exe, .dll or resource > files? You will need some utility here, no ida which one... > Thanks, > -Garrett Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From kray at sonsothunder.com Sat Jul 1 16:03:09 2006 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 15:03:09 -0500 Subject: Long FileName Grief: need work around! In-Reply-To: <84CC0122-C4FD-42DD-AAB4-33A4C666733A@hindu.org> Message-ID: > Ok the problem of long file names on the Mac not working in > Revolution continues to "bite me" at every turn... Here's the latest. I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but the following function takes a hashed shortened file name and returns the full long name to it using AppleScript: function stsLongFilePath pPath switch (the platform) case "MacOS" -- assumes OS X put "set tPath to" && quote & pPath & quote & cr & \ "set tPath to (POSIX file tPath) as string" & cr & \ "POSIX path of tPath" into tScript do tScript as "AppleScript" return (char 2 to -2 of the result) -- strips quotes break case "Win32" return the longFilePath of pPath break end switch end stsLongFilePath So if you did a drag-and-drop operation and the path is hashed, you could run it through stsLongFilePath to get the full path name. Perhaps some variation of this will work for you... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From lists at mangomultimedia.com Sat Jul 1 16:12:34 2006 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 13:12:34 -0700 Subject: Valentina external on OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <711C2C88-2D2E-4E14-9404-69A5D13CEA92@mangomultimedia.com> On Jul 1, 2006, at 10:22 AM, James Spencer wrote: > I'm trying to try out the demo Valentina external without success > so far. Attempts to initialize with: > > get Valentina_Init( 10 * 1024 * 1024 ) > > fails with a syntax error, I assume because the external is not > being seen by Rev. I've set my stack's exteral property to: > > "/Applications/Revolution Studio/2.7.2-gm-1/Externals/Database > Drivers/VXCMD_macho.bundle" > > which appears to be the correct path to the external. Any guesses > as to what is wrong here? > > G5 running OS 10.4.7 and Rev Studio 2.7.2. James, It appears that you are trying to load the RevDB valentina driver as an external which won't work. If you want to use the Valentina external itself you need to download it from the www.paradigmasoft.com. Valentina 2 has instructions for installation. If you want to use the Valentina 1 external you can put that into the: ~/Documents/My Revolution Studio/Externals/ folder and the next time you launch rev the external will be available in the Revolution development environment. To check type this in the msg box: put the externalPackages of stack "home" and you should see Valentina XCMD (or something like that) in the result. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems - www.bluemangolearning.com trevor at bluemangolearning.com From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Sat Jul 1 16:14:11 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:14:11 -0700 Subject: Viewing or extracting .icns files? In-Reply-To: References: <002d01c69a2f$e5293020$6401a8c0@lynn> <44A6CA0B.9090203@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: <44A6D793.7010608@paraboliclogic.com> Hi Klaus, I should have mentioned that I wanted to do this using Rev. But from your answer I believe that what I want to do is not possible from Rev. Thanks for the help, -Garrett Klaus Major wrote: > Hi Garrett, > >> Rev 2.6.1 / OS X >> >> Greetings, >> >> Does anybody know if it's possible to either view the icon files or >> extract the icon files from a OS X .icns file? > > on OS X you can use "Preview" to view and also extract *.ics files :-) > >> Or, view or extract icon files from Windows .exe, .dll or resource files? > > You will need some utility here, no ida which one... > >> Thanks, >> -Garrett > > Regards > > Klaus Major > klaus at major-k.de > http://www.major-k.de > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From lists at mangomultimedia.com Sat Jul 1 16:14:27 2006 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 13:14:27 -0700 Subject: Viewing or extracting .icns files? In-Reply-To: References: <002d01c69a2f$e5293020$6401a8c0@lynn> <44A6CA0B.9090203@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: <23FD6463-1BDF-488C-A4F1-5AD3F1FE525C@mangomultimedia.com> On Jul 1, 2006, at 12:31 PM, Klaus Major wrote: > >> Or, view or extract icon files from Windows .exe, .dll or resource >> files? > > You will need some utility here, no ida which one... Try -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems - www.bluemangolearning.com trevor at bluemangolearning.com From klaus at major-k.de Sat Jul 1 16:18:21 2006 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 22:18:21 +0200 Subject: Viewing or extracting .icns files? In-Reply-To: <44A6D793.7010608@paraboliclogic.com> References: <002d01c69a2f$e5293020$6401a8c0@lynn> <44A6CA0B.9090203@paraboliclogic.com> <44A6D793.7010608@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: Hi Garrett, > Hi Klaus, > > I should have mentioned that I wanted to do this using Rev. Yep :-) > But from your answer I believe that what I want to do is not > possible from Rev. I am sure this is possible somehow with Rev (binary stuff!) but I have no idea ;-) > Thanks for the help, > -Garrett Best Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Sat Jul 1 16:19:27 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:19:27 -0700 Subject: Using GPL'd Images? In-Reply-To: References: <002d01c69a2f$e5293020$6401a8c0@lynn> <44A6CA0B.9090203@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: <44A6D8CF.1000906@paraboliclogic.com> Greetings, I want to use some GPL'd images in a Rev made executable, but I'm not sure if I can or not. These licenses are too confusing for me, so I hope someone here already has some experience with such things as GPL. If I use icon images from the Gnome project, I know I must include the GPL license that comes with them, but I do not need all of the images. I know I would have to give access to images to the user. But, do I need to include the entire package that the images came in, or merely the images I used along with the GPL and information on how to obtain the full package? And, does my program have to be GPL'd because I used these GPL'd images? Do I have to include the source to my program just because of this? Any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks, -Garrett From jspencer78 at mac.com Sat Jul 1 16:29:33 2006 From: jspencer78 at mac.com (James Spencer) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 15:29:33 -0500 Subject: Valentina external on OS X In-Reply-To: <711C2C88-2D2E-4E14-9404-69A5D13CEA92@mangomultimedia.com> References: <711C2C88-2D2E-4E14-9404-69A5D13CEA92@mangomultimedia.com> Message-ID: <566A76E4-C35F-4A5C-A0E2-44CA32901669@mac.com> On Jul 1, 2006, at 3:12 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Jul 1, 2006, at 10:22 AM, James Spencer wrote: > >> I'm trying to try out the demo Valentina external without success >> so far. Attempts to initialize with: >> >> get Valentina_Init( 10 * 1024 * 1024 ) >> >> fails with a syntax error, I assume because the external is not >> being seen by Rev. I've set my stack's exteral property to: >> >> "/Applications/Revolution Studio/2.7.2-gm-1/Externals/Database >> Drivers/VXCMD_macho.bundle" >> >> which appears to be the correct path to the external. Any guesses >> as to what is wrong here? >> >> G5 running OS 10.4.7 and Rev Studio 2.7.2. > > James, > > It appears that you are trying to load the RevDB valentina driver > as an external which won't work. If you want to use the Valentina > external itself you need to download it from the > www.paradigmasoft.com. Valentina 2 has instructions for > installation. If you want to use the Valentina 1 external you can > put that into the: > > ~/Documents/My Revolution Studio/Externals/ > > folder and the next time you launch rev the external will be > available in the Revolution development environment. To check type > this in the msg box: > > put the externalPackages of stack "home" > > and you should see Valentina XCMD (or something like that) in the > result. > > > -- Thank you Trevor. That is exactly what I was trying to do. Am I correct then that the default installation permits access to Valentina databases (with the 10 minute timeout) only through the rev database library (or through a third party library such as yours) in the absence of the Valentina XCMD? Spence James P. Spencer Rochester, MN jspencer78 at mac.com "Badges?? We don't need no stinkin badges!" From lists at mangomultimedia.com Sat Jul 1 17:04:45 2006 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 14:04:45 -0700 Subject: Valentina external on OS X In-Reply-To: <566A76E4-C35F-4A5C-A0E2-44CA32901669@mac.com> References: <711C2C88-2D2E-4E14-9404-69A5D13CEA92@mangomultimedia.com> <566A76E4-C35F-4A5C-A0E2-44CA32901669@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jul 1, 2006, at 1:29 PM, James Spencer wrote: > > Thank you Trevor. That is exactly what I was trying to do. Am I > correct then that the default installation permits access to > Valentina databases (with the 10 minute timeout) only through the > rev database library (or through a third party library such as > yours) in the absence of the Valentina XCMD? That is correct. You have to download the Valentina XCMD separately. For Valentina 1 I recommend using the Valentina external directly and bypassing RevDB. With RevDB you can't use encryption and a lot of other fancy Valentina features. For Valentina 2, Paradigma has created a bridge between the RevDB driver and the Valentina 2 external. You can connect to Valentina 2 using RevDB but then use a function they provide to get a reference that can be passed to any of Valentina external functions. This makes experimenting with Valentina easier since you can use RevDB. If you decide you like it, you can then access the extensive Valentina API without having to change any of your connection code. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems - www.bluemangolearning.com trevor at bluemangolearning.com From sunshine at public.kherson.ua Sat Jul 1 18:20:47 2006 From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 01:20:47 +0300 Subject: Valentina external on OS X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/2/06 12:04 AM, "Trevor DeVore" wrote: >> Thank you Trevor. That is exactly what I was trying to do. Am I >> correct then that the default installation permits access to >> Valentina databases (with the 10 minute timeout) only through the >> rev database library (or through a third party library such as >> yours) in the absence of the Valentina XCMD? > > That is correct. You have to download the Valentina XCMD > separately. For Valentina 1 I recommend using the Valentina external > directly and bypassing RevDB. With RevDB you can't use encryption > and a lot of other fancy Valentina features. > > For Valentina 2, Paradigma has created a bridge between the RevDB > driver and the Valentina 2 external. You can connect to Valentina 2 > using RevDB but then use a function they provide to get a reference > that can be passed to any of Valentina external functions. This > makes experimenting with Valentina easier since you can use RevDB. > If you decide you like it, you can then access the extensive > Valentina API without having to change any of your connection code. Let me add here: Feature that Trevor describes is in latest 2.4 betas of V4REV 2 * RevDB support * bridge between RevDB and Valentina API if I not mistake, in both sides... * Valentina for Revolution is in Universal Binary format -- Best regards, Ruslan Zasukhin VP Engineering and New Technology Paradigma Software, Inc Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information http://www.paradigmasoft.com [I feel the need: the need for speed] From lists at mangomultimedia.com Sat Jul 1 18:23:28 2006 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 15:23:28 -0700 Subject: Valentina external on OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jul 1, 2006, at 3:20 PM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote: > * bridge between RevDB and Valentina API > if I not mistake, in both sides... You are right Ruslan. It goes both ways though there is only a Valentina external function to go from RevDB to valentina. For valentina to revdb you pass the valentina connection reference to revOpenDatabase (though I don't remember the exact syntax). Is that in the wiki? -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems - www.bluemangolearning.com trevor at bluemangolearning.com From chipp at chipp.com Sat Jul 1 18:48:49 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 17:48:49 -0500 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: References: <7aa52a210606291328x71692b14qa610e01aedced214@mail.gmail.com> <7aa52a210606291934g7067868dmfe0541c9b36c7e4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607011548x60404dd0r67585aab15d000dc@mail.gmail.com> Hi Kay, FTR, I was pretty much a Mac fanatic in the early days. My company only used Macs and we did some things which at that time, could only be done with Macs. > "Voting with their wallet" After my company got to 50 people, we started believing it unwise to hold ourselves hostage to a single supplier, as evidenced by the fact (at the time) Powerbooks had over a year backlog-- so I couldn't purchase them for my sales people. It really wasn't the cost of ownership (Macs were still VERY expensive), but rather the business cost to us which forced the change. Since then, I've used both Macs and PCs and I just happen to prefer PCs (for a variety of reasons which I won't go into as I'm really not interested in stoking a platform religious war). One of the most positive things I've seen lately is their pricing on MacBooks. For the first time since I can remember, Apple is very competitively priced vs the PC world. This, IMO, bodes well for their success. Now, I wish they would just fix their advertising campaign, as I (and others) think it's somewhat offensive, and certainly not something which would endear me to purchase a Mac. See the article on SLATE: http://www.slate.com/id/2143810/ BTW, just ran across another Apple Upbeat market share article which claim Apple has less than 2% market share worldwide. Though it does predict better market share to come: http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2006/tc20060615_080175.htm I, too, enjoy this discussion :-) -Chipp > I believe it is universally accepted that one of the 'genius' decisions of > Bill Gates was to go with the system that was open. Job's poor decision was > to go with a closed system. People voted with their wallet and bought the > cheapest they could - which invariable was not a branded IBM box. From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 20:27:21 2006 From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:27:21 +1000 Subject: Smart card reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I'm trrying to connect to a card reader to view the Belgian > Electronic ID card. There is no wiewer for mac. > So I'm trying to get a connection and read from the card in Revolution > > I've installed the driver for the reader and when I type in the > terminal : > > /usr/local/bin/belpic-tool -a > I get the message that I'm connected to the card reader but cannot > read the card. > > Is there a way to connect to such a reader and view what's on the > card from revolution ? Hi Yves, I have tried several times with various card readers to do this and have not managed to do it on wither Mac or PC. Windows uses a protocol called PCSC and supposedly, you can download Mac drivers for it. I have done that, but as you say, never get more than the "you are connected" message. If you can work out how to do this, I would be really interested to know how, but I don't hold out a lot of hope for success :-( My solution was to get an electronics guru to make me a box that talks to the smart card reader internally and allows me to read & write through a serial port. Cheers, Sarah From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 20:30:13 2006 From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:30:13 +1000 Subject: Maximum image size In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060701075129.019b5010@pon.net> References: <200606261901.k5QJ1uUt013927@ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com> <3f07cc260606302054g3cab30a8k290f4e0fa9780125@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.0.20060701075129.019b5010@pon.net> Message-ID: > >I have been checking for images with any > >dimension greater than 4000 so that's probably a safe margin. However > >it sounds like this is Mac only, so I can ignore the size of images in > >Windows. > > I haven't worked with anything larger than 5 Mpx (2576x1932);but I > encountered no problems with MacOSX Rev v2.1.2 and WinXP Rev2.7. Try showing a really big image in an image object - you just get black & grey streaks but no error message when setting the filename of the image, which is a real problem. You have to KNOW what is going to fail as Rev just acts like everything works fine. Cheers, Sarah From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com Sat Jul 1 21:00:57 2006 From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 22:00:57 -0300 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: <7aa52a210607011548x60404dd0r67585aab15d000dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I remember a quote from Bob Levitas a few years ago responding to a discussion of market share. He said that Jobs only ever saw the Mac as a niche machine. Man, what a niche. The business mantra in this millennium is find/create a niche and dominate it. Jobs was 20 years ahead of his time. It took his Board years to figure that out. Wall Street still hasn't got it. Jobs is not competing with Microsoft. They are not in his niche. His successors and predecessors at Apple were and they almost lost the company. Jobs is now growing the Mac's niche through iTunes, iPod and Intel. Remember when Jobs took back the reins and Bill's face loomed out over the crowd at MacWorld? There was a lot of booing. Jobs said, "For Apple to succeed, Microsoft doesn't have to fail." For my money, Jobs is a true visionary... Jim on 7/1/06 7:48 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: > Hi Kay, > > FTR, I was pretty much a Mac fanatic in the early days. My company > only used Macs and we did some things which at that time, could only > be done with Macs. > >> "Voting with their wallet" > > After my company got to 50 people, we started believing it unwise to > hold ourselves hostage to a single supplier, as evidenced by the fact > (at the time) Powerbooks had over a year backlog-- so I couldn't > purchase them for my sales people. > > It really wasn't the cost of ownership (Macs were still VERY > expensive), but rather the business cost to us which forced the > change. Since then, I've used both Macs and PCs and I just happen to > prefer PCs (for a variety of reasons which I won't go into as I'm > really not interested in stoking a platform religious war). > > One of the most positive things I've seen lately is their pricing on > MacBooks. For the first time since I can remember, Apple is very > competitively priced vs the PC world. This, IMO, bodes well for their > success. Now, I wish they would just fix their advertising campaign, > as I (and others) think it's somewhat offensive, and certainly not > something which would endear me to purchase a Mac. See the article on > SLATE: > http://www.slate.com/id/2143810/ > > BTW, just ran across another Apple Upbeat market share article which > claim Apple has less than 2% market share worldwide. Though it does > predict better market share to come: > http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2006/tc20060615_080175.htm > > I, too, enjoy this discussion :-) > > -Chipp > > >> I believe it is universally accepted that one of the 'genius' decisions of >> Bill Gates was to go with the system that was open. Job's poor decision was >> to go with a closed system. People voted with their wallet and bought the >> cheapest they could - which invariable was not a branded IBM box. > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 From smith.sgt at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 21:15:16 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:15:16 -0400 Subject: Mouse not detected if going too fast Message-ID: I'm trying to do an event when the mouse passes over a boundary about 5 pixels thick. The problem is that if the mouse goes too fast, it will apparently skip all 5 pixels and never be detected. Is there a way to make it more sensitive to detection or is the problem not solvable? Thanks. From kray at sonsothunder.com Sat Jul 1 21:41:12 2006 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 20:41:12 -0500 Subject: Mouse not detected if going too fast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm trying to do an event when the mouse passes over a boundary about > 5 pixels thick. The problem is that if the mouse goes too fast, it > will apparently skip all 5 pixels and never be detected. Is there a > way to make it more sensitive to detection or is the problem not > solvable? What is the code you're using? MouseEnter/Mouseleave? MouseMove? It would help to know... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From smith.sgt at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 21:47:59 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:47:59 -0400 Subject: Mouse not detected if going too fast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was using mouseMove because I thought it wouldn't make a difference. I just modified my code to use enter/leave, and it works flawlessly. Looks like you already solved my problem :-) Thanks! On 7/1/06, Ken Ray wrote: > > I'm trying to do an event when the mouse passes over a boundary about > > 5 pixels thick. The problem is that if the mouse goes too fast, it > > will apparently skip all 5 pixels and never be detected. Is there a > > way to make it more sensitive to detection or is the problem not > > solvable? > > What is the code you're using? MouseEnter/Mouseleave? MouseMove? > > It would help to know... > > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 22:08:39 2006 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:08:39 +0800 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: References: <7aa52a210607011548x60404dd0r67585aab15d000dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 7/2/06, Jim Carwardine wrote: > > > Jobs is not competing with Microsoft. They are not in his niche. His > successors and predecessors at Apple were and they almost lost the > company. > > For my money, Jobs is a true visionary... Jim And probably my only true concern for the future of the company. MS is now in a situation that any one of a million CEO of large companies across the globe who have nothing to do with the software industry could take the reins of MS. For Apple though, if Jobs died in a plane crash today, who would have the vision. Jonathan Ives clearly has the brilliance of creating must have gadgets, but does he have the personality/passion to inspire and lead? From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com Sat Jul 1 22:28:54 2006 From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 23:28:54 -0300 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You would be surprised at how many CEOs out there do get it and could replace Jobs. I don't know, but I would bet that the majority of Apple's Board now get it as well and would be capable of selecting a decent candidate for replacing Jobs if he died in a plane crash. There was a comment earlier about the Apple TV ads. I don't think those ads are about attracting normal unknowing PC users - the bulk of PC users think the GUI world started with Windows in 1995. I think those ads are about market research for Apple, designed to appeal to PC users who are using iPods and iTunes. They are the ones Jobs wants to join the new MacIntel niche... Jim on 7/1/06 11:08 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > On 7/2/06, Jim Carwardine wrote: >> >> >> Jobs is not competing with Microsoft. They are not in his niche. His >> successors and predecessors at Apple were and they almost lost the >> company. >> >> For my money, Jobs is a true visionary... Jim > > > And probably my only true concern for the future of the company. MS is now > in a situation that any one of a million CEO of large companies across the > globe who have nothing to do with the software industry could take the reins > of MS. For Apple though, if Jobs died in a plane crash today, who would have > the vision. Jonathan Ives clearly has the brilliance of creating must have > gadgets, but does he have the personality/passion to inspire and lead? > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 From smith.sgt at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 22:35:33 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 22:35:33 -0400 Subject: Mouse not detected if going too fast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tested it a bit more, and it works fine. The event I wanted to pull off, however, is to make a text field go into focus and automatically highlight all its contents. Does anyone know of a command to do the highlighting part? I couldn't find anything in the documentation. On 7/1/06, Jared Smith wrote: > I was using mouseMove because I thought it wouldn't make a difference. > I just modified my code to use enter/leave, and it works flawlessly. > Looks like you already solved my problem :-) Thanks! > > On 7/1/06, Ken Ray wrote: > > > I'm trying to do an event when the mouse passes over a boundary about > > > 5 pixels thick. The problem is that if the mouse goes too fast, it > > > will apparently skip all 5 pixels and never be detected. Is there a > > > way to make it more sensitive to detection or is the problem not > > > solvable? > > > > What is the code you're using? MouseEnter/Mouseleave? MouseMove? > > > > It would help to know... > > > > > > Ken Ray > > Sons of Thunder Software > > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 22:38:02 2006 From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 12:38:02 +1000 Subject: Mouse not detected if going too fast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/2/06, Jared Smith wrote: > Tested it a bit more, and it works fine. The event I wanted to pull > off, however, is to make a text field go into focus and automatically > highlight all its contents. Does anyone know of a command to do the > highlighting part? I couldn't find anything in the documentation. select the text of fld "MyField" HTH, Sarah From smith.sgt at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 22:43:07 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 22:43:07 -0400 Subject: Mouse not detected if going too fast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you again - I couldn't live without you guys :-) On 7/1/06, Sarah Reichelt wrote: > On 7/2/06, Jared Smith wrote: > > Tested it a bit more, and it works fine. The event I wanted to pull > > off, however, is to make a text field go into focus and automatically > > highlight all its contents. Does anyone know of a command to do the > > highlighting part? I couldn't find anything in the documentation. > > select the text of fld "MyField" > > HTH, > Sarah > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 23:27:14 2006 From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 13:27:14 +1000 Subject: Icon menu blocking standard menus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I'm trying to use the unsupported features relating to "the icon" and > it's menu. I set it up OK and it gets populated dynamically. The > information in the "What's New" file under "the iconMenu" has to be > the most confusing ever written, but in fact, the menu is structured > exactly the same as any other menu. > > Moving on from that, I have my menu which is constructed dynamically > when the "iconMenuOpening" message is received. That works perfectly. > > Then I have an "iconMenuPick" handler that gets called whenever a > choice is made from this icon menu. That too is working perfectly. > > The problem is that once I have used the icon menu, the normal menus > no longer work. If I start up, I can use the normal menus. Then if I > do anything using the icon menu, choosing an item subsequently from > the normal menus has no effect. > > The exceptions are Preferences & Quit, but as I am using OS X, these > have both been moved to the application menu so are slightly > different. > > On testing, I found that once the icon menu had been used, every time > I used the standard menus, the message being sent was the iconMenuPick > message, not the standard menuPick. Even worse, the iconMenuPick > message has no parameters in this case, so there is no way I can fake > it. > > The instructions for using these unsupported features say that I can't > bug report them, but I was wondering if anyone else had encountered > this problem and if so, if they had a solution. I've tried a few different things to make this work but I've finally given up and dropped the idea. This is a shame as it worked really well with the app I was trying it on, but it's no good if it stops regular menus from working. It even stops me being able to paste in the IDE, although oddly enough, cut still works OK! Anyway, I hope my experience will save others from wasting their time - the dock icon works fine, but don't bother trying to make a menu :-( Sarah From wjm at wjm.org Sat Jul 1 23:35:46 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:35:46 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? References: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com><1012FDAA-F123-4425-9C6B-9CBF98274A62@all-auctions.com> <80469c8ba243e57fdbdac667be568b82@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: Sure they had problems, and they were also released many years ago. The point is that a plug-in is well within possibility. Look at Director, which basically started out as a clone of HyperCard. They certainly deliver as a cross-platform plug-in that works. Flash achieved ubiquity and even bundling with Windows. That is also comparable with Rev. I don't know what you mean, really, by suggesting that such a plug-in doesn't make "technical sense." You seem to be mixing the technical challenge of creating such a plug-in with the technical challenge of writing a stack that would run in a plug-in. As far as creating the plug-in itself -- sure, I don't presume that to be easy. (Nothing worthwhile is!) But, writing content for the plug-in should be as simple as setting the stack size to the size of the region you want in the browser window and going to town. As for end-users "walking away" at plug-in installation -- there is a percentage of viewers lost every time you click even a plain-jane HTML link! That doesn't stop people from creating links. If your content is useful/interesting enough, people will view it. It's much easier to get someone to install a plug-in than it is to get them to download a player. And honestly, it's a lot safer to download a plug-in (the executable is from a known publisher) than to download a standalone. If you look at the standalone download process on Windows, you get a warning when you download the file, and two warning dialogs before you can run it. Talk about people walking away! And they really should! Rev doesn't (and can't) stop anyone from writing a standalone that completely munges your system. But a web plug-in would provide a "sandbox" environment where it would be reasonably safe to try out new content. Unfortunately, I would tend to agree with you that it will "never happen" -- first because of the defeatism I've seen in the discussion thread; second because people seem quite satisfied to cook up elaborate workarounds for specific applications (i.e., export to DHTML); third because there are still 300 more-pressing enhancements needed in Rev (e.g., decent table objects); and finally because the overall rate of improvement/entropy in Rev precludes major new functions like this. (I'm still using 2.6.1 because 2.7.x remains much less stable.) I just hope that people don't confuse "won't get it" with "don't need it" ... even if that is a sound psychological coping strategy. "Brian Yennie" wrote in message news:80469c8ba243e57fdbdac667be568b82 at qldlearning.com... > Supercard's plugin - "Roadster" was extremely buggy and Mac-only. > Hypercard was demonstrated as becoming integrated with Quicktime - not > quite the same as a browser plugin and no guarantee of anything in > particular. > > Both efforts ultimately were total failures for one reason or another, and > neither product had a fraction of the toolset of Rev. They weren't even > cross-platform. Note that Supercard is still alive, but the browser plugin > is not- and it's still Mac only. > > A useful browser plugin for a Rev-like tool doesn't even make much > technical sense. Sure, there are instances where an HTML export can work > (say you are building a slideshow app) or a Flash export of your > animation, or a Quicktime export of something else. There are other tools > for delivery in a browser. You are much better off learning some of them, > than trying to make Revolution live inside a browser window. Not too > mention that if your product really MUST live inside a browser window, a > large portion of many markets will just walk away when you ask them to > install a new plugin. > > I don't mind if people really want to keep discussing this and find it > interesting, but please consider the evidence that it's extremely unlikely > to happen anytime soon - and quite possibly ever. > >> Not impossible. As I mentioned earlier, Apple demonstrated a browser >> plug-in >> for HyperCard. SuperCard had a similar plug-in. Such a facility would >> dramatically increase the value of writing in Rev. "Quite magical," >> indeed. >> >> >> Rick Harrison wrote >>> it is rather tall order for stacks to run on >>> the web in the way you are describing. >>> >>> If they can do it, yes things would become quite magical in that world. >>> I think the hard truth is that it is probably too difficult a task to >>> accomplish in the near future. From Stgoldberg at aol.com Sat Jul 1 23:38:03 2006 From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:38:03 EDT Subject: Looping in quicktime movies Message-ID: <4c4.2ee8285.31d8999b@aol.com> Can someone suggest a good way of making a quicktime movie play continuously back and forth rather than starting from the beginning with each loop? This would be useful in creating a realistic continuous water wave motion that does not loop and jerk back to the beginning of the movie when the movie ends. Thanks. Steve Goldberg From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Jul 2 00:15:54 2006 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 23:15:54 -0500 Subject: Icon menu blocking standard menus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> The instructions for using these unsupported features say that I can't >> bug report them, but I was wondering if anyone else had encountered >> this problem and if so, if they had a solution. Well, that may be true, but when they first came out I identified a bug on Windows with the iconMenu and since I hadn't read the instructions for unsupported features (), I bugzilla'ed it and it got fixed in the next rev... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Jul 2 00:35:22 2006 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 23:35:22 -0500 Subject: Looping in quicktime movies In-Reply-To: <4c4.2ee8285.31d8999b@aol.com> Message-ID: > Can someone suggest a good way of making a quicktime movie play continuously > back and forth rather than starting from the beginning with each loop? This > would be useful in creating a realistic continuous water wave motion that does > not loop and jerk back to the beginning of the movie when the movie ends. You could start the player object playing, then test to see when you reach the end and then set the playRate to -1 to play it backwards, then test for the beginning, set it back to 1, etc. Try this: on mouseUp set the playrate of player 1 to 1 play player 1 CheckPlayer end mouseUp on CheckPlayer if the playRate of player 1 is 1 then if the currentTime of player 1 is (the duration of player 1) then set the playRate of player 1 to -1 play player 1 end if else if the currentTime of player 1 is 0 then set the playRate of player 1 to 1 play player 1 end if end if if the optionKey is not down then -- when you want it to stop send "CheckPlayer" to me in 100 milliseconds end if end CheckPlayer Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From lists at mangomultimedia.com Sun Jul 2 02:16:40 2006 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:16:40 -0700 Subject: Looping in quicktime movies In-Reply-To: <4c4.2ee8285.31d8999b@aol.com> References: <4c4.2ee8285.31d8999b@aol.com> Message-ID: On Jul 1, 2006, at 8:38 PM, Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote: > Can someone suggest a good way of making a quicktime movie play > continuously > back and forth rather than starting from the beginning with each > loop? This > would be useful in creating a realistic continuous water wave > motion that does > not loop and jerk back to the beginning of the movie when the movie > ends. Steve, This is called palindrome looping and is possible using QuickTime though Revolution doesn't have built-in support for it. It you don't mind using an external then you can use the EnhancedQT external to set the loop type of a movie in a player object to "palindrome". The command you would need is qtMakeMovieLoop. You can find the documentation for this at: http://www.bluemangolearning.com/developer/revolution/eqt_documentation/ Click on "Movie Properties" in the frame on the left and then click on qtMakeMovieLoop in the list of handlers. The external is available here: http://www.bluemangolearning.com/developer/revolution/enhancedqt.php -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems - www.bluemangolearning.com trevor at bluemangolearning.com From sunshine at public.kherson.ua Sun Jul 2 02:35:57 2006 From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 09:35:57 +0300 Subject: Valentina external on OS X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/2/06 1:23 AM, "Trevor DeVore" wrote: Hi Trevor, > On Jul 1, 2006, at 3:20 PM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote: >> * bridge between RevDB and Valentina API >> if I not mistake, in both sides... > > You are right Ruslan. It goes both ways though there is only a > Valentina external function to go from RevDB to valentina. For > valentina to revdb you pass the valentina connection reference to > revOpenDatabase (though I don't remember the exact syntax). Is that > in the wiki? It is exactly in our V4REV/Examples/TestProject Docs I am not sure yet updated -- Best regards, Ruslan Zasukhin VP Engineering and New Technology Paradigma Software, Inc Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information http://www.paradigmasoft.com [I feel the need: the need for speed] From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sun Jul 2 03:43:01 2006 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:43:01 +0200 Subject: Smart card reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <907EFFB1-0E76-41EA-AA24-277740EF4F7E@skynet.be> > Hi Yves, > > I have tried several times with various card readers to do this and > have not managed to do it on wither Mac or PC. Windows uses a protocol > called PCSC and supposedly, you can download Mac drivers for it. I > have done that, but as you say, never get more than the "you are > connected" message. > > If you can work out how to do this, I would be really interested to > know how, but I don't hold out a lot of hope for success :-( > > My solution was to get an electronics guru to make me a box that talks > to the smart card reader internally and allows me to read & write > through a serial port. > > Cheers, > Sarah It's an USB device The driver is effectively a PCSC I've downloaded the mac driver I can connect and make some "dialog"with the card reader through the terminal, but nothing happens in rev with - open driver - read from driver I hope somebody on the list has gone a little further ... ! When I read your answer, I'am a little desperated ... I had some hope end of june, because there was a patch for the mac driver to download on the website But it gives no difference They say that it would work with FireFox, but it's not true Thereforfe I'm trying to make a data reader and viewer from within Rev. Anybody else has experience with such a driver ??? Greetings. Yves COPPE yvescoppe at skynet.be From katir at hindu.org Sun Jul 2 05:37:43 2006 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:37:43 -1000 Subject: Long FileName Solution! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7C99256E-D323-42CE-AEC9-FEA06D5F7854@hindu.org> Aloha, Ken: You are a gem, and this is gold... it solves many challenges for me across a dozen contexts. The filename hash occurs on the drop, but once unencrypted the rename command does not touch it. Marvelous... Thanks! on dragEnter set the acceptDrop to true end dragEnter on dragDrop put dragData["files"] into pPath put stsLongFilePath(pPath) into pPath set the itemdel to "/" put item -1 of pPath into tFileName rename pPath to ("/Users/katir/Desktop/taka-audio transcripts/ loaded to dBase but not on TAKA/" & tFileName) #Yes! full file name in the new directory.... end dragDrop On Jul 01, 2006, at 10:03 AM, Ken Ray wrote: >> Ok the problem of long file names on the Mac not working in >> Revolution continues to "bite me" at every turn... Here's the latest. > > I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but the following > function > takes a hashed shortened file name and returns the full long name > to it > using AppleScript: > > function stsLongFilePath pPath > switch (the platform) > case "MacOS" -- assumes OS X > put "set tPath to" && quote & pPath & quote & cr & \ > "set tPath to (POSIX file tPath) as string" & cr & \ > "POSIX path of tPath" into tScript > do tScript as "AppleScript" > return (char 2 to -2 of the result) -- strips quotes > break > case "Win32" > return the longFilePath of pPath > break > end switch > end stsLongFilePath > > So if you did a drag-and-drop operation and the path is hashed, you > could > run it through stsLongFilePath to get the full path name. > > Perhaps some variation of this will work for you... > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From rcozens at pon.net Sun Jul 2 10:26:38 2006 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 07:26:38 -0700 Subject: Maximum image size In-Reply-To: References: <200606261901.k5QJ1uUt013927@ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com> <3f07cc260606302054g3cab30a8k290f4e0fa9780125@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.0.20060701075129.019b5010@pon.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060702071628.019a38c8@pon.net> Sarah, >> >I have been checking for images with any >> >dimension greater than 4000 so that's probably a safe margin. However >> >it sounds ... >...snip... >>... t worked with anything larger than 5 Mpx (2576x1932);but I >>encountered no problems with MacOSX Rev v2.1.2 and WinXP Rev2.7. > >Try showing a really big image in an image object - you just get black >& grey streaks but no error message when setting the filename of the >image, which is a real problem. My portfolio stack has a zoom in slider which displays a 5 Mpx jpeg at full size--or at least that portion that fits within the stack's rect and is not covered by an opaque mask. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Sun Jul 2 10:31:02 2006 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 07:31:02 -0700 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: References: <7aa52a210607011548x60404dd0r67585aab15d000dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060702072401.019a7240@pon.net> Jin,et al: >For my money, Jobs is a true visionary... As a disgruntled HyperCard evangelist, I see him in a different light: Steve Job's sole contribution to the technical side of computing was his insight as to how the mouse device under development at Xerox's PARC research center could drive a GUI. Having brought this technology to the marketplace, Jobs chose to compete on the basis of technology when buyers had shifted focus to price (or were, at least, beginning to? Perhaps this was an early indicator of the coming wave of "Wal Mart mentality"?) Too bad he totally didn't get it when it came to HyperCard or QuickTime Interactive. Having established Apple as a leading innovator in computer technology, promotion of HyperCard as Microsoft promoted VB and/or (as Gil Amellio [sp?] was committed to) bringing QTI to market would have built upon and enhanced that position. Instead, Jobs' second coming brought us colored computers. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From smith.sgt at gmail.com Sun Jul 2 11:48:25 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 11:48:25 -0400 Subject: Can altBrowser search for text in a website? Message-ID: I'm happy to see that altBrowser can find text using... XBrowser_Set "selected", "SearchWord", BrowserID However, when I use it, it only finds the very first instance of the word I search for within the website. I'd like to implement Previous/Next buttons just like other browsers. If anyone has any tips on how to do this, please let me know. From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Sun Jul 2 12:53:15 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:53:15 -0700 Subject: [OT] Market Snare In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060702072401.019a7240@pon.net> References: <7aa52a210607011548x60404dd0r67585aab15d000dc@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.0.20060702072401.019a7240@pon.net> Message-ID: Jobs' contributions a lot more than Bill Gates'. As I see it, he didn't invent anything...just resold or stole stuff that others did. I get tired of hearing what a genius he is, compared to the 'greatness' of Edison, etc... Actually, that's what Edison did....stole from and exploited others and claimed the credit. Anyway, I'm glad Jobs came back. He killed Copeland and started the road to a stable MacOS that took years - many companies would not have looked so far ahead. And he hired some good people to make the new OS. Apple wouldn't exist now if he hadn't come back. It is perplexing that Jobs was so vehement about shutting HC down - Hypercard was one of the most Mac-like products out there - an extension of the Mac desktop. Perhaps he thought Applescript was all we needed. sqb >Jin,et al: > >>For my money, Jobs is a true visionary... > >As a disgruntled HyperCard evangelist, I see him in a different light: > >Steve Job's sole contribution to the technical side of computing was >his insight as to how the mouse device under development at Xerox's >PARC research center could drive a GUI. -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From josh at dvcreators.net Sun Jul 2 13:04:26 2006 From: josh at dvcreators.net (Josh Mellicker) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:04:26 -0700 Subject: how do you get the evaluated value of a system variable rather than the literal text value in the case of a system variable like $HOME? In-Reply-To: References: <38AF304E-1EAF-48F2-90DF-62EF86ECE6F0@dvcreators.net> <2CDC7964-A79B-431C-9020-CBAB171D3B45@maseurope.net> Message-ID: <14A49C13-85E7-40A2-951D-B578267E544D@dvcreators.net> Brian, that worked perfectly. Thanks! On Jun 30, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: > Josh, > > Try: > > put value ("$HOME") >>> On 1 Jul 2006, at 01:46, Josh Mellicker wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry if this has been answered many times, I couldn't find it. >>>> >>>> My noob brain is twisted... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Let's say a stored destination file path is: >>>> >>>> $HOME,/Applications/ >>>> >>>> But if you say: >>>> >>>> item 1 of tFilePath & item 2 of tFilePath, instead of what you >>>> want: >>>> >>>> /Users/Eggbert/Applications >>>> >>>> you get literally: >>>> >>>> "$HOME/Applications" From josh at dvcreators.net Sun Jul 2 13:07:58 2006 From: josh at dvcreators.net (Josh Mellicker) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:07:58 -0700 Subject: Buttons within Quicktime Movies In-Reply-To: <83B730C7-46A0-4FA5-9B3A-AF985A0C03DA@mangomultimedia.com> References: <38AF304E-1EAF-48F2-90DF-62EF86ECE6F0@dvcreators.net><2CDC7964-A79B-431C-9020-CBAB171D3B45@maseurope.net> <005101c69cd5$2bdb0960$1b01a8c0@Jonathan> <83B730C7-46A0-4FA5-9B3A-AF985A0C03DA@mangomultimedia.com> Message-ID: On Jul 1, 2006, at 8:35 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote: > Invisible buttons: You can already get clicks in the QT window > space. A player object receives all mouse messages. So if you > just want to create invisible hotspots then you can capture mouse > clicks in a player and check them against some predefined invisible > hotspots rectangles that you define. This is the easiest approach. You can also create Flash buttons over a Quicktime movie, (if you need them to move and resize, for example) and trap their FSCommands with Trevor's amazing external. From robmann at gp-racing.com Sun Jul 2 17:49:43 2006 From: robmann at gp-racing.com (Robert Mann) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 17:49:43 -0400 Subject: how to implement a activation code? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is there a sample of how to implement a activation code and or a limited number of trial days with a standalone build? Robert Mann From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com Sun Jul 2 18:30:23 2006 From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 08:30:23 +1000 Subject: Maximum image size In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060702071628.019a38c8@pon.net> References: <200606261901.k5QJ1uUt013927@ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com> <3f07cc260606302054g3cab30a8k290f4e0fa9780125@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.0.20060701075129.019b5010@pon.net> <7.0.1.0.0.20060702071628.019a38c8@pon.net> Message-ID: > >> >I have been checking for images with any > >> >dimension greater than 4000 so that's probably a safe margin. However > >> >it sounds ... > >...snip... > >>... t worked with anything larger than 5 Mpx (2576x1932);but I > >>encountered no problems with MacOSX Rev v2.1.2 and WinXP Rev2.7. > > > >Try showing a really big image in an image object - you just get black > >& grey streaks but no error message when setting the filename of the > >image, which is a real problem. > > My portfolio stack has a zoom in slider which displays a 5 Mpx jpeg > at full size--or at least that portion that fits within the stack's > rect and is not covered by an opaque mask. It's related to the number of pixels rather than the size of the image. I have a 3 MB JPG that's 6572 x 8293 pixels. That will not display correctly and resizing the image object makes no difference. However a 9 MB file that is only 3303 x 3015 pixels will display perfectly. I want to do some tests to confirm the exact point at which the problems occur: it does not fail just because one of the dimensions is over 4096 pixels, as I can display an image that is 3048 x 9280. So the limiting factor must be the 2 dimensions multiplied. I tried lowering the number of colors with the first image (6572 x 8293) and that made no difference, even when I went down to 256 colors. Anyway Rob, you may want to add a check for large images to your portfolio stack, as the result looks terrible if the image is too large. Cheers, Sarah From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com Sun Jul 2 18:46:38 2006 From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 08:46:38 +1000 Subject: Smart card reader In-Reply-To: <907EFFB1-0E76-41EA-AA24-277740EF4F7E@skynet.be> References: <907EFFB1-0E76-41EA-AA24-277740EF4F7E@skynet.be> Message-ID: On 7/2/06, Yves COPPE wrote: > > Hi Yves, > > > > I have tried several times with various card readers to do this and > > have not managed to do it on wither Mac or PC. Windows uses a protocol > > called PCSC and supposedly, you can download Mac drivers for it. I > > have done that, but as you say, never get more than the "you are > > connected" message. > > > > If you can work out how to do this, I would be really interested to > > know how, but I don't hold out a lot of hope for success :-( > > > > My solution was to get an electronics guru to make me a box that talks > > to the smart card reader internally and allows me to read & write > > through a serial port. > > > > Cheers, > > Sarah > > It's an USB device > The driver is effectively a PCSC > I've downloaded the mac driver > I can connect and make some "dialog"with the card reader through the > terminal, but nothing happens in rev with > - open driver > - read from driver > > I hope somebody on the list has gone a little further ... ! > When I read your answer, I'am a little desperated ... > > I had some hope end of june, because there was a patch for the mac > driver to download on the website > But it gives no difference > They say that it would work with FireFox, but it's not true > Thereforfe I'm trying to make a data reader and viewer from within Rev. Yes, I got one set of drivers that were supposed to be Netscape-compatible, but I never understood how this was supposed to work. I certainly couldn't read the card data using a browser! Sorry to be so unhelpful, Sarah From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com Sun Jul 2 19:17:37 2006 From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 09:17:37 +1000 Subject: Icon menu blocking standard menus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/2/06, Ken Ray wrote: > > >> The instructions for using these unsupported features say that I can't > >> bug report them, but I was wondering if anyone else had encountered > >> this problem and if so, if they had a solution. > > Well, that may be true, but when they first came out I identified a bug on > Windows with the iconMenu and since I hadn't read the instructions for > unsupported features (), I bugzilla'ed it and it got fixed in the next > rev... Thanks Ken, I've bugzilla'd it anyway :-) Cheers, Sarah From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Jul 2 20:31:11 2006 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 17:31:11 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? Message-ID: <44A8654F.8080700@fourthworld.com> Bill Marriott wrote: > I just hope that people don't confuse "won't get it" with > "don't need it" Have you considered the possibility that your needs may be different from others'? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From wjm at wjm.org Sun Jul 2 20:37:27 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:37:27 -0400 Subject: how to implement a activation code? References: Message-ID: There are many, many ways to do this. Some of them would involve the standalone "phoning home" to a server which, would enable or disable the software. Another method would be to encode the expiration date into the activation code itself. For example if you wanted it to work the way Revolution does, with a user emailing in to request a key. The code "knows" when it expires. A third way is to hide something in the registry (Windows) or somewhere on-disk where it's not easy to be found. Here's a very very simple (and thus, easily "cracked") algorithm: suppose the expiration date is "8/2/06" the result of base64encode(compress("8/2/06")) is H4sIAAAAAAAAA7PQN9I3MAMAKw61YwYAAAA= 8/3/06 is H4sIAAAAAAAAA7PQN9Y3MAMATmkJ2wYAAAA= 9/2/06 is H4sIAAAAAAAAA7PUN9I3MAMAjt3pqAYAAAA= 11/24/09 is H4sIAAAAAAAAAzM01Dcy0TewBAC5rlHDCAAAAA= Not that while some characters are the same, there's no "obvious" human-readable pattern. Also, it turns out that the "H4sIAAAAAAAAA" prefix and the "AAAA=" suffix are the same for all values encoded this way. So, your activation code could be: 7PQN9I3MAMAKw61Yw In the standalone you would add use something like put "H4sIAAAAAAAAA" into daPrefix put "AAAA=" into daSuffix put decompress(base64decode(daPrefix & daCode & daSuffix)) \ into daExpireDate if daExpireDate > the date then answer "Your trial period is over" quit end if There are many other, better ways you could "encode" a date (and other information) into an activation code. This is just one idea. The simplest code of all could be just three letters: numtochar(month + 32) & \ numtochar(day+ 32) & \ numtochar(year - 2000 + 32) Of course, people might guess that. "Robert Mann" wrote in message news:JPEJKOGMGBLMGMPIHNKCOEIKEPAA.robmann at gp-racing.com... > Is there a sample of how to implement a activation code and or a limited > number of trial days with a standalone build? > > > Robert Mann From wjm at wjm.org Sun Jul 2 21:05:38 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 21:05:38 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? References: <44A8654F.8080700@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: What a non-sequiter, Richard... Whether they are or not is irrelevant; "won't get it" and "don't need it" are two separate states and shouldn't be jumbled up. It's as if I said, "Driving 120 miles per hour may be unsafe, but it's not impossible" and you replied, "But people want to drive at different speeds." Obviously for whatever motives, some people aren't enthusiastic about a browser plug-in that could run Rev code. [Hey, some people apparently don't like chocolate and peanut butter together, either.] That is fine, but don't dismiss it on spurious "technical" grounds, because there really aren't any. (Or at least not any more than any other comparable plug-in.) Actually... as long as we've migrated to speed metaphors... the whole debate reminds me of a series of commercials for Comcast internet. This series features a pair of turtles, called the "Slowskys," who love DSL so much that they've become DSL's national spoke-turtles. [The joke/selling point is that Comcast cable is 8x faster than DSL.] As you can imagine, the Slowskys don't like things fast. http://theslowskys.com/ Anyway, I wouldn't worry about a browser plug-in. This whole "web" thing is just a fad that will be over before you know it. CD-ROMS, that's the future. >> I just hope that people don't confuse "won't get it" with >> "don't need it" > > Have you considered the possibility that your needs may be different from > others'? From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Sun Jul 2 22:18:02 2006 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 22:18:02 -0400 Subject: Maximum image size Message-ID: On 07/02/2006 at 06:30 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote: > It's related to the number of pixels rather than the size of the > image. I have a 3 MB JPG that's 6572 x 8293 pixels. That will not > display correctly and resizing the image object makes no difference. > However a 9 MB file that is only 3303 x 3015 pixels will display > perfectly. I want to do some tests to confirm the exact point at which > the problems occur: it does not fail just because one of the > dimensions is over 4096 pixels, as I can display an image that is 3048 > x 9280. So the limiting factor must be the 2 dimensions multiplied. Sarah, I would be very interested in knowing the exact recipe that produces this "scrambled cable channel" effect with large images in Mac OS. I have an application that works 95% of the time, but certain large images will fail. I've noticed that sometimes the image is fine at first, but the user needs it rotated 90 degrees. They rotate it, and BAM, scrambled image. Prior to the release of 2.7.x of Rev, I was told that the image handling routines were going to be reworked in 2.7 (for Mac and Win). Yes, Windows has problems too, but different... large file size images cause significant slowdown of the app. Anyway, I contacted Runtime and was told that the image routine improvements did not happen in 2.7, but resources were instead focused on improved vector graphic features like antialiasing. I wonder if this problem is back on the agenda or forgotten again in favor of the next cool, but unnecessary feature of the day. When our customers demand that our apps work correctly, yet the engine has a serious design flaw, what can we do besides wait for Runtime to fix it? Roger Eller From brucegregory at earthlink.net Sun Jul 2 22:22:27 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 19:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <5145809.post@talk.nabble.com> Though I've only been reading this forum for a short time, I've now got the definite impression that the Revolution environment is for developers - hard core developers . . . well, programmers - hard core programmers . . . not weak, infantile users like myself, who could never program their way out of a paper sack. O.K., I was profoundly mistaken in thinking there was any validity to creating simple, in-browser content made with Revolution. It is obviously a much more sophisticated tool intended for a much more sophisticated audience. And, I agree with Bill Marriot. CD-Roms are the wave of the future. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/What%27s-The-Verdict%2C-Web-or-Not--tf1876146.html#a5145809 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Jul 2 22:29:56 2006 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 10:29:56 +0800 Subject: Sub-stack deleted! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/1/06, Sivakatirswami wrote: > > I was working in a stack trying to solve a long file name problem > (see other memo) and when I went to save, one of the substacks > (contained all the data!) was gone. this used to happen a long time > ago...fortunately I can go back to our raid Array and get a copy > from yesterday from Retrospect, but lost all of today's work... > > Good lesson, intensive work may want continuous back ups.. I've > been spoiled by Rev..have had only two such problems in 3 years... One of the reason that this use to happen was when trying to delete characters in the pre-2.7 Help Docs search field you wouldn't realize the focus was actually still on the script you were editing or a control you had selected. Haven't seen this is 2.7 but I still follow this method: 1) Save regularly. 2) Each day the first time I open a project that I intend to amend, I Save as... with a new name, which is basically the project name, the rev version + an ever increasing version number; My Killer App 2.7v55 That way, on the odd occasion where I suddenly find I've deleted a control and I can't Undo I just open the previous version and copy the control across - the only thing I've lost is the changes to that particular control. Of course if I really screw up I can go back to where I was 'yesterday'. I've got to say though, Rev has come along way with it's stability and presents far less unpleasant surprises. HTH From robmann at gp-racing.com Sun Jul 2 22:39:31 2006 From: robmann at gp-racing.com (Robert Mann) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 22:39:31 -0400 Subject: how to implement a activation code? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was thinking along the line of how revolution does it, just not sure how that is done? Robert Mann -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Bill Marriott Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 7:37 PM To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: how to implement a activation code? There are many, many ways to do this. Some of them would involve the standalone "phoning home" to a server which, would enable or disable the software. Another method would be to encode the expiration date into the activation code itself. For example if you wanted it to work the way Revolution does, with a user emailing in to request a key. The code "knows" when it expires. A third way is to hide something in the registry (Windows) or somewhere on-disk where it's not easy to be found. Here's a very very simple (and thus, easily "cracked") algorithm: suppose the expiration date is "8/2/06" the result of base64encode(compress("8/2/06")) is H4sIAAAAAAAAA7PQN9I3MAMAKw61YwYAAAA= 8/3/06 is H4sIAAAAAAAAA7PQN9Y3MAMATmkJ2wYAAAA= 9/2/06 is H4sIAAAAAAAAA7PUN9I3MAMAjt3pqAYAAAA= 11/24/09 is H4sIAAAAAAAAAzM01Dcy0TewBAC5rlHDCAAAAA= Not that while some characters are the same, there's no "obvious" human-readable pattern. Also, it turns out that the "H4sIAAAAAAAAA" prefix and the "AAAA=" suffix are the same for all values encoded this way. So, your activation code could be: 7PQN9I3MAMAKw61Yw In the standalone you would add use something like put "H4sIAAAAAAAAA" into daPrefix put "AAAA=" into daSuffix put decompress(base64decode(daPrefix & daCode & daSuffix)) \ into daExpireDate if daExpireDate > the date then answer "Your trial period is over" quit end if There are many other, better ways you could "encode" a date (and other information) into an activation code. This is just one idea. The simplest code of all could be just three letters: numtochar(month + 32) & \ numtochar(day+ 32) & \ numtochar(year - 2000 + 32) Of course, people might guess that. "Robert Mann" wrote in message news:JPEJKOGMGBLMGMPIHNKCOEIKEPAA.robmann at gp-racing.com... > Is there a sample of how to implement a activation code and or a limited > number of trial days with a standalone build? > > > Robert Mann _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From jspencer78 at mac.com Sun Jul 2 22:58:00 2006 From: jspencer78 at mac.com (James Spencer) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 21:58:00 -0500 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <5145809.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com> <5145809.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Jul 2, 2006, at 9:22 PM, GregSmith wrote: > Though I've only been reading this forum for a short time, I've now > got the > definite impression that the Revolution environment is for > developers - > hard core developers . . . well, programmers - hard core > programmers . . > . not weak, infantile users like myself, who could never program > their way > out of a paper sack. O.K., I was profoundly mistaken in thinking > there was > any validity to creating simple, in-browser content made with > Revolution. > It is obviously a much more sophisticated tool intended for a much > more > sophisticated audience. I think you may have gotten the wrong impression; Revolution, while not HyperCard, is, IMHO, very usable by reasonably competent users as well as by "hard core programmers" to make what it was intended for, desktop software. I have no doubt that you could create a useful Rev stack in a short time if you decided you wanted to even if you have never written a program before. There is no doubt that Rev is a powerful environment that can and is used by sophisticated "hard core programmers" to create sophisticated software but that doesn't make it unusable by us lesser mortals. However, Rev is not software for rendering "in-browser content." That's not what it's intended for. It might be very cool if someday someone created a browser plugin to render Rev window content in a browser but the fact that it is not available today does not mean that it is only intended for a "much more sophisticated audience." Nor does the fact that its programming language can be used by relatively sophisticated users for scripting CGI's mean that it's suitable for rendering html whether by hard core programmers or by weak, infantile users (although anyone who really is a weak, infantile user would be unlikely to have ever found there way here in the first place.) In concluding that because Rev is not a good tool for creating simple, in-browser content and therefore it is only for hard core programmers, you are comparing apples and oranges. Such a conclusion makes no more sense that complaining than would condemning Word because it can't be used to do photoediting; there are lots of reasons to complain about Word but that would not be one of them. Spence James P. Spencer Rochester, MN jspencer78 at mac.com "Badges?? We don't need no stinkin badges!" From briany at qldlearning.com Sun Jul 2 23:21:17 2006 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:21:17 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: References: <44A8654F.8080700@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <19850fac53b77adbd0eefe8734e3a3fd@qldlearning.com> Bill, Richard, et al, I won't touch the "don't need it debate" with a ten foot pole at this point. Personally, I don't need it and would prefer to use any of the other fine tools for browser-based content, HOWEVER, I see no problem with anyone else salivating over a Rev plugin. Heck, I'd probably find some use for it if there was one. What I wanted to comment on is: > That is fine, but don't dismiss it on spurious "technical" grounds, > because > there really aren't any. (Or at least not any more than any other > comparable > plug-in.) It's not spurious. There's history here. Roadster (Supercard web plugin) did an excellent job of sucking resources and falling on it's face with a company similarly equipped to RunRev (i.e., small). And Roadster was a significantly smaller technical feat, because it only ran on one platform. Revolution is hugely intertwined with OS-specific calls, file system access, multiple windows and a ton of other stuff that just doesn't fit in a browser window. I'm not saying it's impossible. Of course it's not. But raising technical objections is quite sound here. I've written externals for Revolution, compiled and modified Mozilla from the source, am familiar with the browser plugin API -- and I can barely imagine trying to fit Revolution in there. It's a much taller task than any plugin I know of. There ARE technical reasons why you don't see entire RAD environments running inside browsers. And no, Flash is not a RAD tool. Anyway, perhaps we can agree - there are more than spurious technical hurdles, but some of us think they would be worth it (even though I do not). - Brian From wjm at wjm.org Sun Jul 2 23:39:27 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 23:39:27 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? References: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com> <5145809.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: It's not a reason to complain about Word because, well, you *can* edit photos with it http://www.wjm.org/linked/word-photo.gif (and draw simple graphics... and [cough] display its content in a web browser) James Spencer wrote... > Such a conclusion makes no more sense that complaining than would > condemning Word because it can't be used to do photoediting; there are > lots of reasons to complain about Word but that would not be one of them. [I think some of Greg's sarcasm was lost on you] From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Jul 2 23:46:40 2006 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:46:40 +0800 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/2/06, Jim Carwardine wrote: > > You would be surprised at how many CEOs out there do get it and could > replace Jobs. Rob Cozens wrote: Instead, Jobs' second coming brought us colored computers. > My point exactly. How many other CEO out there can make so much money out of such irrelevance. From a technological standpoint, truly embarrassing. From a marketing standpoint, head a shoulders, world record, Gold medal, hall of fame never to be forgotten kinda of stuff. I reckon Kevin wishes he could get an extra million sales just by changing the colour of the box:-) From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Jul 2 23:54:58 2006 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:54:58 +0800 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: References: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com> <5145809.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 7/3/06, Bill Marriott wrote: > > It's not a reason to complain about Word because, well, you *can* edit > photos with it > > http://www.wjm.org/linked/word-photo.gif > > (and draw simple graphics... and [cough] display its content in a web > browser) It's cross platform and it does tables with great aplume. So clearly the answer is to suggest to MS to write a pluggin for Word so that it can be used as a RAD. So simple:-) From wjm at wjm.org Mon Jul 3 01:05:13 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 01:05:13 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? References: <44A8654F.8080700@fourthworld.com> <19850fac53b77adbd0eefe8734e3a3fd@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: Brian Yennie wrote, > I see no problem with anyone else salivating over a Rev plug-in. Heck, I'd > probably find some use for it if there was one. :) > It's not spurious. There's history here. Roadster (Supercard web plug-in) > did an excellent job of sucking resources and falling on its face with a > company similarly equipped to RunRev (i.e., small). And Roadster was a > significantly smaller technical feat, because it only ran on one platform. Resources is one thing; bugs are another. (And did you mean, system resources, or company resources?) Sophisticated Flash solutions can take up several megabytes of RAM. More than a similar Rev standalone, in some cases. As for Roadster, I am sure that Apple didn't particularly care about making it cross-platform; they're funny/weird that way. (Apple *still* offers a non-xplat plug-in architecture.) By a plug-in "comparable [to Rev]" I mean Director of course. Director's lingo is/was even a variant of HyperTalk, before it transmogrified into a multi-headed ECMAscript beast. > Revolution is hugely intertwined with OS-specific calls, file system > access, multiple windows and a ton of other stuff that just doesn't fit in > a browser window. In one of my earlier posts, I did comment that the browser "sandbox" would be the hardest aspect of a Rev plugin. Presumably one wouldn't be able to access the local system at all. And you wouldn't be able to spawn new windows, either. Not all technical issues are "spurious" but some of the ones bandied about certainly are. By the way... Clearly this is about using Rev to write "stacks" that target the browser... not to expect to run any Rev stack without modification "within" a browser window. > I'm not saying it's impossible. Of course it's not. But raising technical > objections is quite sound here. I've written externals for Revolution, > compiled and modified Mozilla from the source, am familiar with the > browser plugin API -- and I can barely imagine trying to fit Revolution in > there. It's a much taller task than any plugin I know of. There ARE > technical reasons why you don't see entire RAD environments running inside > browsers. And no, Flash is not a RAD tool. And since Rev itself can't access the document object model, presumably a plugin woudn't be able to either, severely limiting its functionality. Yes, there would be some issues trying to get the existing Rev shoe-horned into a browser plugin. However, building a plugin that can present rev stacks is another question :) > Anyway, perhaps we can agree - there are more than spurious technical > hurdles, but some of us think they would be worth it (even though I do > not). Yes... it's a big job. My point is NOT that "Oh those Rev folks are so mean, they could just wave a hand and give us something we want, effortlessly." There are issues, sure. Solvable ones. I reject the claim that Rev is not "appropriate" for web delivery, or inherently incompatible with the concept, as spurious. I think many (perhaps even most) regulars here on the Rev list have accepted the niche Revolution has found and hopes it continues to be maintained and thrive in that niche. We feel lucky that Rev, such as it is, even exists... let alone that it works as well as it does to create "real applications" on the "big three" OS platforms. But you know, there is no "President Bush" who is going to declare our coral reef a wildlife sanctuary. Rev is going to have to adapt long term to survive, in my opinion. I think that means eventually running on the Web -- the latest and most important "platform" out there. As Stephen Hawking said, "Leave Earth or die!" :) From wjm at wjm.org Mon Jul 3 01:28:08 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 01:28:08 -0400 Subject: how to implement a activation code? References: Message-ID: a) Rev isn't going to tell you how they do it ;) b) That basically *is* how they do it -- encoding an expiry date into the key -- but using a much more sophisticated algorithm. To the best of my knowledge, the Rev app doesn't "phone home." - You register online to receive a key - Their server system creates a key which embeds the version number, expiry date, and perhaps other information - They email the key to you - Your copy of Rev decrypts the key and unlocks the software according to the rules embedded in the key itself "Robert Mann" wrote in message news:JPEJKOGMGBLMGMPIHNKCCEIPEPAA.robmann at gp-racing.com... >I was thinking along the line of how revolution does it, just not sure how > that is done? > > Robert Mann From wjm at wjm.org Mon Jul 3 01:23:45 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 01:23:45 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? References: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com> <5145809.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: Hey, I think you're on to something! :D Kay C Lan wrote > On 7/3/06, Bill Marriott wrote: >> >> It's not a reason to complain about Word because, well, you *can* edit >> photos with it >> >> http://www.wjm.org/linked/word-photo.gif >> >> (and draw simple graphics... and [cough] display its content in a web >> browser) > > > It's cross platform and it does tables with great aplume. So clearly the > answer is to suggest to MS to write a pluggin for Word so that it can be > used as a RAD. > > So simple:-) From tvogelaar at de-mare.nl Mon Jul 3 01:36:09 2006 From: tvogelaar at de-mare.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 07:36:09 +0200 Subject: Escape infinite loops Message-ID: Hi all, I have a script that somehow has an infinite loop somewhere, although I cannot see where or why. Back in the HyperCard days I ran more often into such an error. I had to use Command-dot often to stop executing scripts. But RunRev 2.7 doesn't seem to respond to that. So I force-quit RunRev. But is there another way to abort executing scripts? Also, is there a way to give a handler a maximum time to finish? Terry From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Mon Jul 3 02:03:40 2006 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 23:03:40 -0700 Subject: Escape infinite loops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: look in the archives of posts from last two weeks, where this was discussed fairly well. link to archives http://www.mail-archive.com/use-revolution at lists.runrev.com/ Basically--------------- Rule 1 make sure the "user can't abort scripts" is false (un-checked) if the optionkey is down then breakpoint if the optionkey is down then exit to top if the optionkey is down then exit repeat put the seconds into noww repeat forever if the seconds - noww > (24*60*60) then it is tomorrow end repeat put 0 into cntr repeat forever add 1 to cntr if cntr > 43562121 then breakpoint end repeat Just a few ways Jim Ault Las Vegas On 7/2/06 10:36 PM, "Terry Vogelaar" wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a script that somehow has an infinite loop somewhere, although > I cannot see where or why. > > Back in the HyperCard days I ran more often into such an error. I had > to use Command-dot often to stop executing scripts. But RunRev 2.7 > doesn't seem to respond to that. So I force-quit RunRev. But is there > another way to abort executing scripts? > > Also, is there a way to give a handler a maximum time to finish? > > Terry > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From briany at qldlearning.com Mon Jul 3 03:24:46 2006 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 00:24:46 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: References: <44A8654F.8080700@fourthworld.com> <19850fac53b77adbd0eefe8734e3a3fd@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: > Resources is one thing; bugs are another. (And did you mean, system > resources, or company resources?) Sophisticated Flash solutions can > take up > several megabytes of RAM. More than a similar Rev standalone, in some > cases. > As for Roadster, I am sure that Apple didn't particularly care about > making > it cross-platform; they're funny/weird that way. (Apple *still* offers > a > non-xplat plug-in architecture.) I meant company resources - Supercard made a lot of us wary of these kinds of projects for better or worse, as it ate up several companies along the way. Windows port, browser plugin, they both quite literally sunk small companies. BTW - Supercard was not an Apple product - only Hypercard was. Supercard was owned by a string of small companies much like RunRev (in size, I must say RunRev has had more success than any of them IMO). > By a plug-in "comparable [to Rev]" I mean Director of course. > Director's > lingo is/was even a variant of HyperTalk, before it transmogrified > into a > multi-headed ECMAscript beast. Fair enough. I would argue that Director was still not a RAD tool and more of a media-creation application... but, it's almost hopeless to argue that one and probably should be tabled =). > In one of my earlier posts, I did comment that the browser "sandbox" > would > be the hardest aspect of a Rev plugin. Presumably one wouldn't be able > to > access the local system at all. And you wouldn't be able to spawn new > windows, either. Not all technical issues are "spurious" but some of > the > ones bandied about certainly are. > > By the way... Clearly this is about using Rev to write "stacks" that > target > the browser... not to expect to run any Rev stack without modification > "within" a browser window. Fair enough. FWIW, there is the ability to run Rev stacks in safe mode already and block file system access. The system property isn't coming to mind now, but it's there. > Yes... it's a big job. My point is NOT that "Oh those Rev folks are so > mean, they could just wave a hand and give us something we want, > effortlessly." There are issues, sure. Solvable ones. I reject the > claim > that Rev is not "appropriate" for web delivery, or inherently > incompatible > with the concept, as spurious. Well I'll be honest - I'm much more in the camp of not wanting RunRev to use it's resources for this than I am of the mind that I wouldn't like to see it. > I think many (perhaps even most) regulars here on the Rev list have > accepted > the niche Revolution has found and hopes it continues to be maintained > and > thrive in that niche. We feel lucky that Rev, such as it is, even > exists... > let alone that it works as well as it does to create "real > applications" on > the "big three" OS platforms. But you know, there is no "President > Bush" who > is going to declare our coral reef a wildlife sanctuary. Rev is going > to > have to adapt long term to survive, in my opinion. I think that means > eventually running on the Web -- the latest and most important > "platform" > out there. As Stephen Hawking said, "Leave Earth or die!" :) Mostly agree. I don't necessarily think it's on the critical survival path for Rev, HOWEVER, I would surely get a kick out of seeing it happen. Here's on last thought, before I should probably rest my thoughts on the issue: Metacard Corp. used to license "embedded" Metacard to developers with very special needs who needed to link Metacard (Revolution) directly into their own custom applications as a C-code library. If a 3rd party group could convince RunRev to license the code out, it could be conceivably the best of both worlds: a browser plugin developed without RunRev as a company taking such a big risk with it's resources. I would be more than happy myself to even pitch in a little. - Brian From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Jul 3 04:55:40 2006 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 09:55:40 +0100 Subject: Escape infinite loops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44A8DB8C.3050506@cogapp.com> On 7/2/06 10:36 PM, "Terry Vogelaar" wrote: > Back in the HyperCard days I ran more often into such an error. I had > to use Command-dot often to stop executing scripts. But RunRev 2.7 > doesn't seem to respond to that. So I force-quit RunRev. But is there > another way to abort executing scripts? > > Also, is there a way to give a handler a maximum time to finish? n 3/7/06 07:03, Jim Ault wrote: > look in the archives of posts from last two weeks, where this was discussed > fairly well. > > link to archives > http://www.mail-archive.com/use-revolution at lists.runrev.com/ > > Basically--------------- > > Rule 1 make sure the "user can't abort scripts" is false (un-checked) > > if the optionkey is down then breakpoint > if the optionkey is down then exit to top > if the optionkey is down then exit repeat > > put the seconds into noww > repeat forever > if the seconds - noww > (24*60*60) then it is tomorrow > end repeat > > put 0 into cntr > repeat forever > add 1 to cntr > if cntr > 43562121 then breakpoint > end repeat Jim's right to point to that thread - and the various strategies he mentions are all good - but actually towards the end of the thread it was established that the leading issue was that in 2.7.x, the global property "allowInterrupts" has been set false by default - it should be 'true'. With this property set to true, command-dot works as you expect (except in certain cases with modal dialogs open, which led to the rest of the discussion above). As to giving a handler a maximumm time to finish, AFAIK there is no way to do this from 'outside' the handler - ie as Jim hints, you'd need to build this into your handler in some way. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Mon Jul 3 05:10:37 2006 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 02:10:37 -0700 Subject: Escape infinite loops In-Reply-To: <44A8DB8C.3050506@cogapp.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Ben, I forgot about the 2.7 "allowInterrupts = false" bug since I am not using it yet. In this case, *I* needed the reminder... Jim Ault Las Vegas On 7/3/06 1:55 AM, "Ben Rubinstein" wrote: > Jim's right to point to that thread - and the various strategies he mentions > are all good - but actually towards the end of the thread it was established > that the leading issue was that in 2.7.x, the global property > "allowInterrupts" has been set false by default - it should be 'true'. With > this property set to true, command-dot works as you expect (except in certain > cases with modal dialogs open, which led to the rest of the discussion above). > > As to giving a handler a maximumm time to finish, AFAIK there is no way to do > this from 'outside' the handler - ie as Jim hints, you'd need to build this > into your handler in some way. > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Jul 3 05:20:54 2006 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 02:20:54 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? Message-ID: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> Bill Marriott wrote: > By a plug-in "comparable [to Rev]" I mean Director of course. Director's > lingo is/was even a variant of HyperTalk, before it transmogrified into a > multi-headed ECMAscript beast. Director is still available, serving the audience that needs it well. > In one of my earlier posts, I did comment that the browser "sandbox" would > be the hardest aspect of a Rev plugin. Presumably one wouldn't be able to > access the local system at all. And you wouldn't be able to spawn new > windows, either. Not all technical issues are "spurious" but some of the > ones bandied about certainly are. > > By the way... Clearly this is about using Rev to write "stacks" that target > the browser... not to expect to run any Rev stack without modification > "within" a browser window. Exactly. Since there's only a subset of things which are worth putting into a browser window, why not use the engine already in the browser as the presentation layer: JavaScript/DHTML? >> Anyway, perhaps we can agree - there are more than spurious technical >> hurdles, but some of us think they would be worth it (even though I do >> not). > > Yes... it's a big job. I haven't found an investor willing to back it. Maybe I'm just not well connected. I would enjoy seeing anyone able demonstrate the business case for this plugin with an investor willing to underwrite it. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal _______________________________________________________ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com From wjm at wjm.org Mon Jul 3 06:42:56 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:42:56 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I didn't realize you were devoting your life searching for an investor to underwrite a plug-in you don't believe it. :) > I haven't found an investor willing to back it. Maybe I'm just not well > connected. I would enjoy seeing anyone able demonstrate the business case > for this plugin with an investor willing to underwrite it. From wjm at wjm.org Mon Jul 3 07:17:37 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 07:17:37 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? References: <44A8654F.8080700@fourthworld.com> <19850fac53b77adbd0eefe8734e3a3fd@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: Brian Yennie wrote: > I meant company resources - Supercard made a lot of us wary of these kinds > of projects for better or worse, as it ate up several companies along the > way. Windows port, browser plugin, they both quite literally sunk small > companies. BTW - Supercard was not an Apple product - only Hypercard was. > Supercard was owned by a string of small companies much like RunRev (in > size, I must say RunRev has had more success than any of them IMO). Well, I think the SuperCard example ultimately works against the "someone tried it before and failed miserably so it shouldn't be tried again" line of reasoning. A lot of us aren't using SuperCard because it doesn't run on Windows. I certainly share the *impression* that RunRev is a much healthier company -- perhaps in no small part because of its xplat ability. RunRev Studio's tagline is, "Code once, deploy everywhere," isn't it? One company's albatross is another's eagle. Or perhaps I mean, "blue jay?" Going to the RunRev homepage I see a cute little banner, "Avoid Extinction with Universal Binary Support" ... the sad dinosaurs are SuperCard users? From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Jul 3 08:31:32 2006 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 13:31:32 +0100 Subject: saving problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44A90E24.7020004@cogapp.com> On 1/7/06 13:07, Robert Mann wrote: > fixed my bad lost power the other and my server was reset not to allow > changes to files, but I never got a error from rev telling me that it could > not save but instead kept saying save completed? > > Robert Mann > President > GP Racing LLC > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Robert Mann > Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 6:54 AM > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: saving problem > > > I seem to have a problem saving with 2.7.2 build 261 > yesterday I made quit a few changes to one of my stacks, as I am working I > click the save every 5 or 10 minutes, well this morning open up the stack > none of my changes are there. So I started over this time I only made a few > changes than saved and closed rev, reopen stack changes not there, what > could be going on? > > Robert Mann > President > GP Racing LLC Hi Robert, I don't think that's your bad; Rev should have told you that the save had failed. I've conformed this behaviour (that Save claims to have completed, even if it couldn't) on Mac OS X, and reported it to Bugzilla: http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3722 Were you on OS X or Windows? If the latter, please add a note to the above bug report to confirm that this error occurs on Windows also. Thank you, Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From wmb at internettrainer.com Mon Jul 3 09:43:26 2006 From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang Bereuter) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:43:26 +0200 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: <7aa52a210607011548x60404dd0r67585aab15d000dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aa52a210606291328x71692b14qa610e01aedced214@mail.gmail.com> <7aa52a210606291934g7067868dmfe0541c9b36c7e4c@mail.gmail.com> <7aa52a210607011548x60404dd0r67585aab15d000dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 02.07.2006, at 00:48, Chipp Walters wrote: > It really wasn't the cost of ownership (Macs were still VERY > expensive), but rather the business cost to us which forced the > change. Since then, I've used both Macs and PCs and I just happen to > prefer PCs (for a variety of reasons which I won't go into as I'm > really not interested in stoking a platform religious war). -- snip --- > > BTW, just ran across another Apple Upbeat market share article which > claim Apple has less than 2% market share worldwide. Though it does > predict better market share to come: > http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2006/ > tc20060615_080175.htm > > I, too, enjoy this discussion :-) Chipp, you are very IT focused... If M$ has 80% or 85% or 90% - no matter: Its a pest anyway: Its a monopol. Monopols will be killed sooner or later. This world lives since billions of years from/in diversity. That diversity has killed much bigger animals than M$. M$ is about 30 years. Less than a nanoseconds in the evolution? Big as a microfuruncle on the scrotum of the planet. But shouldnt we better crush it until it makes us impotent? Or better: shouldnt the intelligent US people better crush it until it makes them impotent? It will make them impotent, much less potent as they are now, or do you really think India and China will "buy!" Billions of M$ Licenses in this century? regards wolfgang bereuter PS: I hope I have it right expressed in english... -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See traips! photolearning trainingsmaps ............................... http://www.traips.org http://www.internettrainer.com wmb at internettrainer.com ............................... Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410 From geradamas at yahoo.com Mon Jul 3 09:54:31 2006 From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: What a Drag . . Message-ID: <20060703135431.1632.qmail@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I set up a really rather silly little game with a picture of a farmyard merrily sprinkled with GIF images of cows, sheep and so forth and gave all the life-forms the following script: on mouseDown grab me end mouseDown (nothing to write home to Mother about there!) and at the bottom of the card I had a fairly large field called "Corral" next to fld "Corral" I had a little button called "Inventory" and when I clicked on it I wanted it to PUT the names of all the images inside the RECT of fld "Corral" into another field called "fINVENTORY" that is where I got stuck. Would be most grateful for help, sincerely, Richmond Mathewson ____________________________________________________________ "Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the fluidity of meanings users attach to words and phrases." Mathewson, 2006 ____________________________________________________________ From wmb at internettrainer.com Mon Jul 3 09:55:33 2006 From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang Bereuter) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:55:33 +0200 Subject: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web? In-Reply-To: <7aa52a210606291406l40975057l386665887cfd2040@mail.gmail.com> References: <44A43E22.10408@fourthworld.com> <7aa52a210606291406l40975057l386665887cfd2040@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4212FBE3-8985-4883-BCC3-C5F12854F0EC@internettrainer.com> On 29.06.2006, at 23:06, Chipp Walters wrote: > No argument here. Microsoft's business practice is deplorable...no, > criminal. depends on your point of view. How many people has this business practice killed? How man companies? How man lifes and human been destroyed? How many bilions dollars have we all paid for the strategic incompatiblility. How many bilions for expansive licenses, etc, etc, etc............ > Mean-spirited as well. You know a corporate culture like > theirs is always driven top-down. Makes me wonder what Gates is REALLY > going to do with his billions marked for charity. Answer is easy: money! And politics and did I mentioned: money? > Hmm, perhaps a spot > in heaven IS FOR SALE? No! Thanks god, its not availiable for money. But he wont need that, when he will rebirth as a Pinguin, because Pinguins dont need money... regards wolfgang bereuter -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See traips! photolearning trainingsmaps ............................... http://www.traips.org http://www.internettrainer.com wmb at internettrainer.com ............................... Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410 From geradamas at yahoo.com Mon Jul 3 09:58:03 2006 From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SLOOOW MOVERS Message-ID: <20060703135803.17728.qmail@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have been having a lot of fun using MOVE to move (surely not?) pictures of vegetables around a stack. However I wonder if there is a way to make the images 'run' rather than 'stroll' - frankly everything moves a bit slowly . . . sincerely, Richmond Mathewson ____________________________________________________________ "Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the fluidity of meanings users attach to words and phrases." Mathewson, 2006 ____________________________________________________________ From mark at maseurope.net Mon Jul 3 10:03:15 2006 From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:03:15 +0100 Subject: SLOOOW MOVERS In-Reply-To: <20060703135803.17728.qmail@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060703135803.17728.qmail@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5F9F71A4-CBE5-4B16-A771-F154280176E0@maseurope.net> Have you played with the moveSpeed property? It's still limited by the CPU power, but at least you can make things move more slowly! Best, Mark On 3 Jul 2006, at 14:58, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > I have been having a lot of fun using MOVE to move (surely not?) > pictures of vegetables around a stack. > > However I wonder if there is a way to make the images 'run' rather > than 'stroll' - frankly everything moves a bit slowly . . . > > sincerely, Richmond Mathewson > > ____________________________________________________________ > > "Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the > fluidity of meanings users attach to words and phrases." > Mathewson, 2006 > ____________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From pevensen at siboneylg.com Mon Jul 3 11:00:21 2006 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:00:21 -0500 Subject: SLOOOW MOVERS In-Reply-To: <20060703135803.17728.qmail@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060703135803.17728.qmail@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060703095924.145e46d8@exchange.slg.com> You can also use "move object from pos1 to pos2 in x milliseconds" and specify a time in which to do the move. At 08:58 AM 7/3/2006, you wrote: >I have been having a lot of fun using MOVE to move (surely not?) pictures >of vegetables around a stack. > >However I wonder if there is a way to make the images 'run' rather than >'stroll' - frankly everything moves a bit slowly . . . > >sincerely, Richmond Mathewson Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 From rcozens at pon.net Mon Jul 3 11:04:27 2006 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 08:04:27 -0700 Subject: [OT] Market Snare In-Reply-To: References: <7aa52a210607011548x60404dd0r67585aab15d000dc@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.0.20060702072401.019a7240@pon.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060703074324.01918228@pon.net> Stephen,et al: >Jobs' contributions a lot more than Bill Gates'. As I see it, he >didn't invent anything...just resold or stole stuff that others did. Gates also benefited greatly, IMF(oolesh)O, from the same "lets compete on technology instead of price" mentality I attributed to Mr. Jobs, this time displayed by the executives at Softech Microsystems when pricing the UCSD-p operating system for the original IBM PC at a level TEN X higher than Microsoft was charging for MS/DOS. Had the p-System been priced @ $40 a pop, Mr. Gates would still have to work for a living, sez I. And what might Apple's market share be today if they had competed on the basis of price instead of technology? Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Mon Jul 3 10:41:40 2006 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 07:41:40 -0700 Subject: Maximum image size In-Reply-To: References: <200606261901.k5QJ1uUt013927@ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com> <3f07cc260606302054g3cab30a8k290f4e0fa9780125@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.0.20060701075129.019b5010@pon.net> <7.0.1.0.0.20060702071628.019a38c8@pon.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060703073120.01910698@pon.net> Hi Sarah, >Anyway Rob, you may want to add a check for large images to your >portfolio stack, as the result looks terrible if the image is too >large. Thanks for the "heads up". Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Mon Jul 3 11:18:31 2006 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 08:18:31 -0700 Subject: Maximum image size In-Reply-To: References: <200606261901.k5QJ1uUt013927@ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com> <3f07cc260606302054g3cab30a8k290f4e0fa9780125@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.0.20060701075129.019b5010@pon.net> <7.0.1.0.0.20060702071628.019a38c8@pon.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060703081337.019192e8@pon.net> Sarah, >It's related to the number of pixels rather than the size of the >image. I have a 3 MB JPG that's 6572 x 8293 pixels. That will not >display correctly and resizing the image object makes no difference. >However a 9 MB file that is only 3303 x 3015 pixels will display >perfectly. I want to do some tests to confirm the exact point at which >the problems occur: it does not fail just because one of the >dimensions is over 4096 pixels, as I can display an image that is 3048 >x 9280. So the limiting factor must be the 2 dimensions multiplied. Have you checked to see if resolution is a factor? My jpegs are all 250 dpi. I presume the 3MB file displays correctly in other software? Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From didiersanz at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 11:33:47 2006 From: didiersanz at gmail.com (Didier SANZ) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 17:33:47 +0200 Subject: What a Drag . . In-Reply-To: <20060703135431.1632.qmail@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060703135431.1632.qmail@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: repeat with tPict = 1 to number of images in this cd if loc of image tPict is within rect of field "corral" then put short name of image tPict &return after tList end repeat put tList into field "fINVENTORY" Le 3 juil. 06 ? 15:54, Richmond Mathewson a ?crit : > I set up a really rather silly little game with a picture of a > farmyard merrily > sprinkled with GIF images of cows, sheep and so forth and gave all > the life-forms the following script: > > on mouseDown > grab me > end mouseDown > > (nothing to write home to Mother about there!) > > and at the bottom of the card I had a fairly large field called > "Corral" > > next to fld "Corral" I had a little button called "Inventory" and > when I clicked on it > I wanted it to PUT the names of all the images inside the RECT of > fld "Corral" > into another field called "fINVENTORY" > > that is where I got stuck. > > Would be most grateful for help, > > sincerely, Richmond Mathewson > > ____________________________________________________________ > > "Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the > fluidity of meanings users attach to words and phrases." > Mathewson, 2006 > ____________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From rcozens at pon.net Mon Jul 3 11:49:57 2006 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 08:49:57 -0700 Subject: [OT] Market Snare Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060703083644.0195a260@pon.net> Stephen,et al: >Jobs' contributions a lot more than Bill Gates'. As I see it, he >didn't invent anything...just resold or stole stuff that others did. I find Microsoft's business tactics--since they attained market dominance--deplorable. However, to the extent that "Pirates of the Silicon Valley" was based on fact: * Gates had at least the same involvement in developing the predecessor to MS/DOS as Jobs had in development of the original Apple PC. * Gates was the first O/S vendor to negotiate a per-unit royalty instead of fixed compensation from the hardware vendor. * Neither Gates nor Jobs is a saint. * One would probably hate working for Jobs as much or more than working for Gates. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From tkuypers at dmp-int.com Mon Jul 3 12:37:04 2006 From: tkuypers at dmp-int.com (Ton Kuypers) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 18:37:04 +0200 Subject: RR object library question Message-ID: <5CE50F4B-F605-41C7-B86C-58873DEDC225@dmp-int.com> Hi, When I launch RR 2.6 and go to the menu "Development:Object library", there were a whole load of useful objects. These are empty in 2.7. The images are there, just no objects... Anybody a suggestion on how to get these back? I tried to copy the 2.6 revimagelibrary.rev, but this gives an error when I open it in the IDE... Warm regards, Ton Kuypers Digital Media Partners bvba Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530 Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04 http://www.dmp-int.com From tkuypers at dmp-int.com Mon Jul 3 12:37:30 2006 From: tkuypers at dmp-int.com (Ton Kuypers) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 18:37:30 +0200 Subject: MS-SQL Database problem Message-ID: <078678B5-6E5B-4E5D-B37A-A96D79801DCE@dmp-int.com> Hi, fellow Revolutionaires... I have a strange problem: I'm using RR 2.7.2 Enterprise on OS X 10.4.7 I'm connecting to a SQL Server through an ODBC connection, no problem so far. When I retrieve data from the SQL Server, all fields come over just fine, except DateTime fields... There are 2 of these fields, each containing a value like "28-06-2006 00:00" When I use the code below to get the data, the value I get for the date is truncated and changed to "2006-06-"... Anyone any ideas? Warm regards, Ton Kuypers Digital Media Partners bvba Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530 Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04 http://www.dmp-int.com The code: ON MouseUp put fGetClients() into msg END MouseUp FUNCTION fGetClients put "SELECT Contacts.CompanyNameINV, Contacts.Contact_ID FROM Contacts;" into vCommand put fGetData(vCommand) into vData return fDB2Field(vData) END fGetClients FUNCTION fGetData vCommand set cursor to watch put getConnectID() into dbID IF dbID is empty THEN exit to top put the pConnectionID of Stack "Motivation" into dbID IF dbID is not a number THEN put "Error: " & dbID into vError answer vError set the clipboardData["text"] to vError exit to top END IF -- dbID is not a number return revDataFromQuery(tab,return,dbID,vCommand) END fGetData From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 17:07:43 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 14:07:43 -0700 Subject: No Book on IT Message-ID: <70ed6b130607031407g52ab82c6o5d67752505cc7a07@mail.gmail.com> I've decided after looking over the issue and playing with IT in various combinations that the topic is not after all worthy of a whole book. I will therefore turn my attention to other, deeper topics for my next eBook in my ongoing series on Rev scripting. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Mon Jul 3 22:06:34 2006 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:06:34 -0400 Subject: No Book on IT In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607031407g52ab82c6o5d67752505cc7a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Shhhh IT On 7/3/06 5:07 PM, "Dan Shafer" wrote: > I've decided after looking over the issue and playing with IT in various > combinations that the topic is not after all worthy of a whole book. I will > therefore turn my attention to other, deeper topics for my next eBook in my > ongoing series on Rev scripting. | | | )_) )_) )_) )___))___))___)\ )____)____)_____)\\ _____|____|____|____\\\__ -------\ /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ ^^^^ ^^^ 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190 fax: (787) 809-8426 Blue Water Maritime P.O. Box 91 Puerto Real, PR 00740 From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 22:46:35 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 19:46:35 -0700 Subject: No Book on IT In-Reply-To: References: <70ed6b130607031407g52ab82c6o5d67752505cc7a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607031946w1265f30chc92b26a70e6903e5@mail.gmail.com> LOL On 7/3/06, Bill wrote: > > Shhhh IT > > > On 7/3/06 5:07 PM, "Dan Shafer" wrote: > > > I've decided after looking over the issue and playing with IT in various > > combinations that the topic is not after all worthy of a whole book. I > will > > therefore turn my attention to other, deeper topics for my next eBook in > my > > ongoing series on Rev scripting. > > | | | > )_) )_) )_) > )___))___))___)\ > )____)____)_____)\\ > _____|____|____|____\\\__ > -------\ /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com > ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ > ^^^^ ^^^ > > 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190 > fax: (787) 809-8426 > > Blue Water Maritime > P.O. Box 91 > Puerto Real, PR 00740 > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From robinsongroup at verizon.net Tue Jul 4 01:20:34 2006 From: robinsongroup at verizon.net (Michael Robinson) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:20:34 -0700 Subject: Problems building a standalone with 2.7.2 Message-ID: I am having problems with Revolution 2.7.2 that I never had with previous versions! After building a standalone application and opening it, the main stack seems to works OK, it is when you create a new file ( cloning of a sub-stack ) the new file is created but does not work right. It will not open a drawer that is in a preopenstack handler until the file is closed and reopened 1 time, but it will open the drawer from the menu. It will create a new document when the file is created, but will not import information from another file until it is opened & closed 2 times. This is driving me crazy! PowerBook G4 15" System Version: Mac OS X 10.4.7 (8J135) I would appreciate some help Thanks, Mike From barryb at libero.it Tue Jul 4 02:23:34 2006 From: barryb at libero.it (barryb at libero.it) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 08:23:34 +0200 Subject: A Newbie's ramblings. Message-ID: May I chip in? I have just finished my trial period of Media. Seems to be what I have been looking for since Hypercard days. However, I am a bit put-off buying by the several posts on this list about bugs in the latest version. Have they or will they all be sorted out soon? The lack of internet deployment for stacks is a pity. I had already made plans for world wide distribution of the "killer ap" I nearly completed before the trial ran out! ;-) By the way: Hyperstudio can put stacks on the web and viewers can even modify them on line in the browser! At least so they say. But then I am neither a teacher nor a student nor a child. As for the List itself. Isn't the PC/Mac controversy ever going to drop out of places like this? I have room on my desk for both as well as a Penquin box. Revolution is a product that knocks down the barricades, let's try not to rebuild them! Maybe people who cite dubious data about Marketing Shares might like to contemplate the following: "Statistics are like bikinis, what they show is interesting but what they hide is essential!". Anyway thanks for the many good tips. Hoping to join you very soon. Barry From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Tue Jul 4 02:33:06 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:33:06 -0700 Subject: Possible New Book Titles Message-ID: <70ed6b130607032333o3848c21fsb6194e1f3e296756@mail.gmail.com> OK, I'm trying to figure out the best next subject on which to produce a SmartEBook eBooklet. The following topics remain on my list and are candidates based on the relatively small likelihood that fundamental changes in Rev will obsolete them in the next year. I'd be interested in votes, feedback, other suggestions, etc. * Script-based commands Edit script, editscript, wait, do, scriptlimits, text/font related properties, insert script, remove script, start using * The Message Box Examination of all panes, properties, uses of the Message Box * Debugging strategies and techniques * Parameters, Variables and Values in Transcript * Building and Deploying Standalones -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Tue Jul 4 03:10:51 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 00:10:51 -0700 Subject: A Newbie's ramblings. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44AA147B.3040909@paraboliclogic.com> barryb at libero.it wrote: > May I chip in? > I have just finished my trial period of Media. Seems to be what I have been looking for since Hypercard days. However, I am a bit put-off buying by the several posts on this list about bugs in the latest version. Have they or will they all be sorted out soon? No and Never. As they fix one bug, and skip one, they create another bug. If I were you, I'd just consider them as features and not bugs. Not that they aren't trying work out bug, because they are, but it seems like they'll never actually get on top of all of them. [snip] > As for the List itself. Isn't the PC/Mac controversy ever going to drop out of places like this? I have room on my desk for both as well as a Penquin box. Revolution is a product that knocks down the barricades, let's try not to rebuild them! > Maybe people who cite dubious data about Marketing Shares might like to contemplate the following: > "Statistics are like bikinis, what they show is interesting but what they hide is essential!". This list has a good mix of Mac, Win and Linux. In my short time here I have rarely seen any debates about which is better and such. -Garrett From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com Tue Jul 4 03:38:59 2006 From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 17:38:59 +1000 Subject: A Newbie's ramblings. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Barry and welcome to the Revolution :-) > May I chip in? You certainly may - we love to hear from new people as they give us a different perspective. > I have just finished my trial period of Media. Seems to be what I have been looking for since Hypercard days. However, I am a bit put-off buying by the several posts on this list about bugs in the latest version. Have they or will they all be sorted out soon? There are bugs in the IDE itself, most of which can be worked around in one way or another. There are very few show-stoppers as they get high priority. In my exerience, the standalones are rock-solid.There is also Bugzilla - the bug database - where you can report bugs and vote for those you consider most critical. Remember that for every negative on the list, there are lots of positives that never get reported. > The lack of internet deployment for stacks is a pity. I had already made plans for world wide distribution of the "killer ap" I nearly completed before the trial ran out! ;-) > By the way: Hyperstudio can put stacks on the web and viewers can even modify them on line in the browser! At least so they say. But then I am neither a teacher nor a student nor a child. Can't help you there - it isn't something I have ever needed to do. > As for the List itself. Isn't the PC/Mac controversy ever going to drop out of places like this? I have room on my desk for both as well as a Penquin box. Revolution is a product that knocks down the barricades, let's try not to rebuild them! > Maybe people who cite dubious data about Marketing Shares might like to contemplate the following: > "Statistics are like bikinis, what they show is interesting but what they hide is essential!". Couldn't agree more :-) Cheers, Sarah From mb.ur at harbourhosting.co.uk Tue Jul 4 04:25:41 2006 From: mb.ur at harbourhosting.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 09:25:41 +0100 Subject: A Newbie's ramblings. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44AA2605.6030407@harbourhosting.co.uk> barryb at libero.it wrote: > May I chip in? I don't think anyone will mind :-), > I have just finished my trial period of Media. > Seems to be what I have been looking for since > Hypercard days. However, I am a bit put-off buying > by the several posts on this list about bugs in the > latest version. Have they or will they all be > sorted out soon? > Your concerns are understandable. But you shouldn't be too alarmed by what you read here. Pleasures and successes of using this software far outweigh the problems. It's just that solving the problems is what this list is about. Revolution is fundamentally a very sound piece of software. Any show-stopping bugs tend to be fixed pretty quick. Bugs that have workarounds will be lower priority. This list will help you know what the workarounds are. Media is a relatively new product, and a different type of tool from its older siblings, but I don't recall seeing much in the way of Media related bug-reports. Bugs in general always creep into everything somehow. Runtime Revolution has a bug-reporting database where users can report the details of suspected bugs. Reports with reproducible symptoms will get fixed according to rational priorities. This list is often used to get confirmation from other users whether a problem is local to a single user/platform or whether it is a general behaviour or should be considered a feature or a bug. There are some very smart and helpful people here. No matter how trivial or arcane your question, it will almost always find an answer here. In earlier versions there used to be many more bugs than there are now. This improvement is the result of a conscious effort by the company. > As for the List itself. Isn't the PC/Mac > controversy ever going to drop out of places like > this? I have room on my desk for both as well as a > Penquin box. Revolution is a product that knocks > down > the barricades, let's try not to rebuild them! > Maybe people who cite dubious data about Marketing > Shares might like to contemplate the following: > "Statistics are like bikinis, what they show is > interesting but what they hide is essential!". > Amen to all that. It rears its inevitable head from time to time. But it's difficult to imagine a less appropriate forum for platform-sniping. Fortunately most list-members resist the temptation to take part. I dare say that like you, many of us here run several different platforms, and are only interested in what is appropriate to each task rather than general beauty contests. For me, the principal attraction of Revolution is that it liberates me from having to commit to using any given platform. I can just use whichever offers me the most advantage at any given point. > Anyway thanks for the many good tips. > Hoping to join you very soon. > > Barry > Martin Baxter From asgg35 at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jul 4 07:54:35 2006 From: asgg35 at dsl.pipex.com (Chris Carroll-Davis) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:54:35 +0100 Subject: Exporting transparent PNGs (again) Message-ID: Hello again folks. I recently posted a question about Rev's weird behaviour when exporting transparent PNGs from fields with Japanese text. No-one (understandably) was able to offer any help so, as is often the case, I think I'll be looking for a workaround... ... Exporting non-transparent PNGs works fine so, in theory, should I not be able to export the image (perhaps to clipboard or variable) then apply this to a graphic as an alpha channel? Then export the resulting image as transparent PNG? So... two questions: 1) Does the above workaround solution sound feasible? 2) How the devil do I do it???!! I've had a few half-hearted attempts at using the alphadata property, but I can't get it to work at all! Can anyone point me to some example stacks that use this property that I can dissect? I'd be grateful for any suggestions!! Chris From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com Tue Jul 4 08:03:46 2006 From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 22:03:46 +1000 Subject: Possible New Book Titles In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607032333o3848c21fsb6194e1f3e296756@mail.gmail.com> References: <70ed6b130607032333o3848c21fsb6194e1f3e296756@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > OK, I'm trying to figure out the best next subject on which to produce a > SmartEBook eBooklet. The following topics remain on my list and are > candidates based on the relatively small likelihood that fundamental changes > in Rev will obsolete them in the next year. I'd be interested in votes, > feedback, other suggestions, etc. > > * Script-based commands > > Edit script, editscript, wait, do, scriptlimits, text/font related > properties, insert script, remove script, start using > > * The Message Box > > Examination of all panes, properties, uses of the Message Box > > * Debugging strategies and techniques > > * Parameters, Variables and Values in Transcript > > * Building and Deploying Standalones Any of the last 3 would get my vote, with debugging possibly the top of the list. Cheers, Sarah From benr_mc at cogapp.com Tue Jul 4 08:12:51 2006 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 13:12:51 +0100 Subject: Possible New Book Titles In-Reply-To: References: <70ed6b130607032333o3848c21fsb6194e1f3e296756@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44AA5B43.6020609@cogapp.com> On 4/7/06 13:03, Sarah Reichelt wrote: >> >> * Debugging strategies and techniques >> >> * Parameters, Variables and Values in Transcript >> >> * Building and Deploying Standalones > > Any of the last 3 would get my vote, with debugging possibly the top > of the list. > I agree precisely with Sarah - I think those three are probably the most useful, with debugging marginally out in front. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From viktoras at ekoinf.net Tue Jul 4 08:22:28 2006 From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (Viktoras Didziulis) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 15:22:28 +0300 (FLE Standard Time) Subject: vector graphics References: <5D132AA5-5DD1-4EF6-A67E-C89115C9900D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44AA5D84.000004.03944@MAZYTIS> Dear all, Are there any good references/tutorials on how to handle elementary vector graphics in Transcript. What I am trying to do is: 1) draw a polyline, polygon or point with unique name/ID from coordinates stored in tab delimited file as pairs of xy coordinates, each vector object starting in new line and assign a color to line, point or polygon (both line and fill); 2) change scale - zoom-in or zoom-out, 3)save the final vector image in a raster format (bmp, gif or png) with predetermined resolution, lets say 1024x768 pixels. What's the simpliest way of doing this ? Best wishes Viktoras From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Tue Jul 4 08:28:36 2006 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 08:28:36 -0400 Subject: Possible New Book Titles In-Reply-To: <44AA5B43.6020609@cogapp.com> Message-ID: I agree on debugging too. On 7/4/06 8:12 AM, "Ben Rubinstein" wrote: > On 4/7/06 13:03, Sarah Reichelt wrote: >>> >>> * Debugging strategies and techniques >>> >>> * Parameters, Variables and Values in Transcript >>> >>> * Building and Deploying Standalones >> >> Any of the last 3 would get my vote, with debugging possibly the top >> of the list. >> > > I agree precisely with Sarah - I think those three are probably the most > useful, with debugging marginally out in front. > > Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com > Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 > http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution | | | )_) )_) )_) )___))___))___)\ )____)____)_____)\\ _____|____|____|____\\\__ -------\ /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ ^^^^ ^^^ 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190 fax: (787) 809-8426 Blue Water Maritime P.O. Box 91 Puerto Real, PR 00740 From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Tue Jul 4 10:42:04 2006 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 10:42:04 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <5145809.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com> <5145809.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <3F133C41-5EE8-461E-BB2F-1F2FB8D437DF@adelphia.net> Gregg, This is definitely not the case. This forum has some great programmers that have always been able and willing to teach the newbies like I was and if it were not for them I would never have been able to get good enough to start my own business using Rev as my main tool. Everyone on this list was helpful in teaching me how to use Rev and more importantly how to look at coding in a professional way so that I could grow and prosper. I started out with HC and moved to SC and roadster but eventually gave up on the idea of a web side app because I always expected the browser to act like a full fledged application and it is just too limiting an environment for that. Instead, an application that integrates web components truly is more powerful and useful for me. That said most people on the list also have strong opinions about the tool and world they live and work with. So you must expect a topic like this to spark a flurry of responses and opinions on the matter. The trick for me is to stay open minded to new ways of looking at things and not get stuck in my own view of things. I started out feeling that a plugin was a necessity and since then have realized that the alternatives are much better and work better. I was stuck in old thinking for awhile and eventually changed my mind. Tom On Jul 2, 2006, at 10:22 PM, GregSmith wrote: > Though I've only been reading this forum for a short time, I've now > got the > definite impression that the Revolution environment is for > developers - > hard core developers . . . well, programmers - hard core > programmers . . > . not weak, infantile users like myself, who could never program > their way > out of a paper sack. Thomas J McGrath III 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Lazy River Software - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com Lazy River Metal Art? - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/metal.html Meeting Wear - http://www.cafepress.com/meetingwear Semantic Compaction Systems - http://www.minspeak.com SCIconics, LLC - http://www.sciconics.com/sciindex.html From asgg35 at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jul 4 11:06:41 2006 From: asgg35 at dsl.pipex.com (Chris Carroll-Davis) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 16:06:41 +0100 Subject: Exporting transparent PNGs (again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B5077AE-A873-4AEE-AC97-0DEDD0FD08F2@dsl.pipex.com> Hello again. Well, I've made some progress! I can now stick an image on a card and use that image to make an alpha channel for a second image. Hurrah. Trouble is it is S--L--O--W! It takes over 10 seconds to process a tiny 50-pixel square image!!! The utility I'm making needs to export about 3000 - much larger - graphics! The problem is that ImageData uses 4 bytes per pixel (even if it is a 8-bit greyscale image) but AlphaData only uses 1 byte per pixel, so I have to strip the data out in a repeat loop that is huge; even for moderately sized graphics! I started with a 300 x 300 graphic, but of course for AlphaData that is 300x300 bytes = 90,000 repeats. Yuk! There must be a better way Is there any lightning fast way of manipulating the binary data without resorting to a repeat loop? Help! Chris On 4 Jul 2006, at 12:54, Chris Carroll-Davis wrote: > Hello again folks. > > I recently posted a question about Rev's weird behaviour when > exporting transparent PNGs from fields with Japanese text. No-one > (understandably) was able to offer any help so, as is often the > case, I think I'll be looking for a workaround... > > ... Exporting non-transparent PNGs works fine so, in theory, should > I not be able to export the image (perhaps to clipboard or > variable) then apply this to a graphic as an alpha channel? Then > export the resulting image as transparent PNG? > > So... two questions: > 1) Does the above workaround solution sound feasible? > 2) How the devil do I do it???!! > > I've had a few half-hearted attempts at using the alphadata > property, but I can't get it to work at all! Can anyone point me > to some example stacks that use this property that I can dissect? > > I'd be grateful for any suggestions!! > > > Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Tue Jul 4 11:22:13 2006 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:22:13 -0400 Subject: A Newbie's ramblings. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29C2AF5D-064C-445B-80BE-1C8B913911B1@adelphia.net> Barry Welcome to the Revolution! Tell us more about the World Wide distribution of that "killer app"!!!!! ;-) I look forward to your involvement on the list. Tom On Jul 4, 2006, at 2:23 AM, barryb at libero.it wrote: > May I chip in? > I have just finished my trial period of Media. Seems to be what I > have been looking for since Hypercard days. However, I am a bit put- > off buying by the several posts on this list about bugs in the > latest version. Have they or will they all be sorted out soon? > > The lack of internet deployment for stacks is a pity. I had already > made plans for world wide distribution of the "killer ap" I nearly > completed before the trial ran out! ;-) > By the way: Hyperstudio can put stacks on the web and viewers can > even modify them on line in the browser! At least so they say. But > then I am neither a teacher nor a student nor a child. > > As for the List itself. Isn't the PC/Mac controversy ever going to > drop out of places like this? I have room on my desk for both as > well as a Penquin box. Revolution is a product that knocks down the > barricades, let's try not to rebuild them! > Maybe people who cite dubious data about Marketing Shares might > like to contemplate the following: > "Statistics are like bikinis, what they show is interesting but > what they hide is essential!". > > Anyway thanks for the many good tips. > Hoping to join you very soon. > > Barry > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Thomas J McGrath III 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Lazy River Software - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com Lazy River Metal Art? - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/metal.html Meeting Wear - http://www.cafepress.com/meetingwear Semantic Compaction Systems - http://www.minspeak.com SCIconics, LLC - http://www.sciconics.com/sciindex.html From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Tue Jul 4 11:29:33 2006 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:29:33 -0400 Subject: Possible New Book Titles In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607032333o3848c21fsb6194e1f3e296756@mail.gmail.com> References: <70ed6b130607032333o3848c21fsb6194e1f3e296756@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dan, FWIW, I and others have been talking about the distribution of standalones and password issues and timers, etc. If this were thoroughly explored in detail I would purchase this. Also any tricks in Building SAs with icons and Start Bar menu's and Dock menu's and CD distribution, password protection, etc. My issue with CD distribution was that on the Windows side the external and alias for the app needed to be in a certain place in order for my paths to find it but the Mac side needed them to be somewhere else. I ended up having duplicate folders with the same (300 + images) media for distribution so as to not break the file paths. I know better now but I would have loved to have known before I started some of the pitfalls. My next project is an external/ library release and I would love to know some of the pitfalls before finishing this. Regards, Tom On Jul 4, 2006, at 2:33 AM, Dan Shafer wrote: > OK, I'm trying to figure out the best next subject on which to > produce a > SmartEBook eBooklet. The following topics remain on my list and are > candidates based on the relatively small likelihood that > fundamental changes > in Rev will obsolete them in the next year. I'd be interested in > votes, > feedback, other suggestions, etc. > > * Script-based commands > > Edit script, editscript, wait, do, scriptlimits, text/font related > properties, insert script, remove script, start using > > * The Message Box > > Examination of all panes, properties, uses of the Message Box > > * Debugging strategies and techniques > > * Parameters, Variables and Values in Transcript > > * Building and Deploying Standalones > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author > http://www.shafermedia.com > Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Thomas J McGrath III 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Lazy River Software - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com Lazy River Metal Art? - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/metal.html Meeting Wear - http://www.cafepress.com/meetingwear Semantic Compaction Systems - http://www.minspeak.com SCIconics, LLC - http://www.sciconics.com/sciindex.html From wow at together.net Tue Jul 4 11:35:42 2006 From: wow at together.net (Richard Miller) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:35:42 -0400 Subject: POST command In-Reply-To: References: <70ed6b130607032333o3848c21fsb6194e1f3e296756@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Is there any way to stop, or check on the status of, an ongoing POST command? For example, if a POST command had not completed within 2 seconds, can it be aborted? Thanks. Richard Miller Imprinter Technologies From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Tue Jul 4 13:10:50 2006 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:10:50 +0100 Subject: Exporting transparent PNGs (again) In-Reply-To: <4B5077AE-A873-4AEE-AC97-0DEDD0FD08F2@dsl.pipex.com> References: <4B5077AE-A873-4AEE-AC97-0DEDD0FD08F2@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: On 4 Jul 2006, at 16:06, Chris Carroll-Davis wrote: > Hello again. > > Well, I've made some progress! I can now stick an image on a card > and use that image to make an alpha channel for a second image. > Hurrah. Trouble is it is S--L--O--W! It takes over 10 seconds to > process a tiny 50-pixel square image!!! The utility I'm making > needs to export about 3000 - much larger - graphics! > > The problem is that ImageData uses 4 bytes per pixel (even if it is > a 8-bit greyscale image) but AlphaData only uses 1 byte per pixel, > so I have to strip the data out in a repeat loop that is huge; even > for moderately sized graphics! I started with a 300 x 300 > graphic, but of course for AlphaData that is 300x300 bytes = 90,000 > repeats. Yuk! There must be a better way > > Is there any lightning fast way of manipulating the binary data > without resorting to a repeat loop? > I'm not sure what calculations you are doing in the loop, but it sounds too slow. The following routine creates alphaData from a 300 x 300 grayscale image in less than a second on my not so fast machine. (You'll probably need to substitute the calculation inside the loop with your own.) I'm sure others will step up with faster alternatives. :-) on mouseUp put the imageData of image 1 into tImageData put the milliseconds into tStart ## for speed calc put 0 into tCount repeat for each char tChar in tImageData add 1 to tCount if tCount = 4 then put numToChar(255 - charToNum(tChar)) after tMaskData put 0 into tCount end if end repeat put the milliseconds - tStart && length(tMaskData) ##speed score set the alphaData of image 1 to tMaskData end mouseUp Cheers Dave From soapdog at mac.com Tue Jul 4 14:07:36 2006 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 15:07:36 -0300 Subject: The ICFP Programming Contest Message-ID: Hi Folks, anyone want to gather a team to participate in The ICFP Programming Contest of this year? Its usually very fun and one can learn much from it. more info http://icfpcontest.org/index.shtml cheers andre From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Tue Jul 4 14:09:47 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 11:09:47 -0700 Subject: Rev Newsletter Mailing List? In-Reply-To: <44A6D8CF.1000906@paraboliclogic.com> References: <002d01c69a2f$e5293020$6401a8c0@lynn> <44A6CA0B.9090203@paraboliclogic.com> <44A6D8CF.1000906@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: <44AAAEEB.8040207@paraboliclogic.com> Greetings, Did anyone else get an email notifying you that you were just subscribed to a newsletter mailing list for Rev? I don't remember subscribing to it. And it went to an email address I don't use for mailing lists. Is Runtime automatically subscribing it's user base to this? Or am I going crazier than I thought? ;-) -Garrett From bvg at mac.com Tue Jul 4 14:23:14 2006 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 20:23:14 +0200 Subject: Rev Newsletter Mailing List? In-Reply-To: <44AAAEEB.8040207@paraboliclogic.com> References: <002d01c69a2f$e5293020$6401a8c0@lynn> <44A6CA0B.9090203@paraboliclogic.com> <44A6D8CF.1000906@paraboliclogic.com> <44AAAEEB.8040207@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: <0ba1eb6b4d88ae629e153a35623d8910@mac.com> On Jul 04 2006, at 20:09, Garrett Hylltun wrote: > Is Runtime automatically subscribing it's user base to this? Or am I > going crazier than I thought? ;-) That's the newsletter you received before.. only it's now managed in a mailing list. see issue 3 for details, and read at the bottom right of this page: http://www.runrev.com/newsletter/june/issue3/ -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.bjoernke.com Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" From chris_love1990 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 4 14:30:01 2006 From: chris_love1990 at hotmail.com (Christopher Love) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 18:30:01 +0000 Subject: Rev Newsletter Mailing List? In-Reply-To: <44AAAEEB.8040207@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: Runrev just added myself out of the blue :S ive been trying to unsubscribe but the email wont send to me to confirm my unsubscription !!! i think im going crazy now! >From: Garrett Hylltun >Reply-To: How to use Revolution >To: How to use Revolution >Subject: Rev Newsletter Mailing List? >Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 11:09:47 -0700 > >Greetings, > >Did anyone else get an email notifying you that you were just subscribed to >a newsletter mailing list for Rev? > >I don't remember subscribing to it. And it went to an email address I >don't use for mailing lists. > >Is Runtime automatically subscribing it's user base to this? Or am I going >crazier than I thought? ;-) > >-Garrett > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview From janschenkel at yahoo.com Tue Jul 4 14:38:12 2006 From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: vector graphics In-Reply-To: <44AA5D84.000004.03944@MAZYTIS> Message-ID: <20060704183812.94008.qmail@web60520.mail.yahoo.com> --- Viktoras Didziulis wrote: > > Dear all, > > Are there any good references/tutorials on how to > handle elementary vector > graphics in Transcript. What I am trying to do is: > 1) draw a polyline, polygon or point with unique > name/ID from coordinates > stored in tab delimited file as pairs of xy > coordinates, each vector object > starting in new line and assign a color to line, > point or polygon (both line > and fill); > 2) change scale - zoom-in or zoom-out, > 3)save the final vector image in a raster format > (bmp, gif or png) with > predetermined resolution, lets say 1024x768 pixels. > > What's the simpliest way of doing this ? > > Best wishes > Viktoras > Hi Viktoras, Take a look at the 'graphic' control - style 'polygon' and its 'points' property. It's a return-delimited list of points that you can get and set from a handler. So depending on the file contents, it could be as easy as: -- put URL("file:" & tFilePath) into tPoints set the points of graphic "foobar" to tPoints -- Setting the points will update the graphic's rectangle, and vice versa: change the rectangle, and Revolution will scale it for you - naturally, using multiples of the original dimensions will work best ;-) As for rastering, you can use the 'import snapshot' or 'export snapshot' commands, but I'mnot sure how you can set the resolution. Perhaps some of the media-oriented people can chime in? Hope this helped, Jan Schenkel. Quartam Reports for Revolution ===== "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." (La Rochefoucauld) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Tue Jul 4 14:38:46 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:38:46 -0700 Subject: Rev Newsletter Mailing List? In-Reply-To: <44AAAEEB.8040207@paraboliclogic.com> References: <002d01c69a2f$e5293020$6401a8c0@lynn> <44A6CA0B.9090203@paraboliclogic.com> <44A6D8CF.1000906@paraboliclogic.com> <44AAAEEB.8040207@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: Yes I got one too... also it appears to be an announcement list, but then lets you know "To post to this list, send your email to: newsletter at lists.runrev.com" Which of course bounces. I think what happened is that they turned on their "send emails" portion of their newsletter list - which some of us subscribed to. Or they used the list. And some of the stock notice included the 'To Post To This List' part. I'm not angry, just think it was a bit odd.. sqb >Greetings, > >Did anyone else get an email notifying you that you were just >subscribed to a newsletter mailing list for Rev? > >I don't remember subscribing to it. And it went to an email address >I don't use for mailing lists. > >Is Runtime automatically subscribing it's user base to this? Or am >I going crazier than I thought? ;-) > >-Garrett -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From bvg at mac.com Tue Jul 4 14:40:53 2006 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 20:40:53 +0200 Subject: The ICFP Programming Contest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Would be fun, right now there's the soccer game, but later i would be ready to discuss this (maybe on chatrev?) Cheers Bjoernke On Jul 04 2006, at 20:07, Andre Garzia wrote: > Hi Folks, > > anyone want to gather a team to participate in The ICFP Programming > Contest of this year? Its usually very fun and one can learn much from > it. > > more info http://icfpcontest.org/index.shtml > > cheers > andre -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.bjoernke.com Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Tue Jul 4 15:18:39 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 12:18:39 -0700 Subject: Rev Newsletter Mailing List? In-Reply-To: <0ba1eb6b4d88ae629e153a35623d8910@mac.com> References: <002d01c69a2f$e5293020$6401a8c0@lynn> <44A6CA0B.9090203@paraboliclogic.com> <44A6D8CF.1000906@paraboliclogic.com> <44AAAEEB.8040207@paraboliclogic.com> <0ba1eb6b4d88ae629e153a35623d8910@mac.com> Message-ID: <44AABF0F.7020402@paraboliclogic.com> Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > On Jul 04 2006, at 20:09, Garrett Hylltun wrote: > >> Is Runtime automatically subscribing it's user base to this? Or am I >> going crazier than I thought? ;-) > > That's the newsletter you received before.. only it's now managed in a > mailing list. see issue 3 for details, and read at the bottom right of > this page: > http://www.runrev.com/newsletter/june/issue3/ Ahhhhhhhhh..... So I'm not getting crazier than before! :-) Thanks for the heads up Bj?rnke, -Garrett From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Tue Jul 4 15:20:04 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 12:20:04 -0700 Subject: The ICFP Programming Contest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44AABF64.7010204@paraboliclogic.com> Andre Garzia wrote: > Hi Folks, > > anyone want to gather a team to participate in The ICFP Programming > Contest of this year? Its usually very fun and one can learn much from it. While I'm not a Rev expert, I think I know enough to help out on a team for whatever they might toss out as the target. So I'm open if anyone wants me on that. -Garrett From tkuypers at dmp-int.com Tue Jul 4 16:46:27 2006 From: tkuypers at dmp-int.com (Ton Kuypers) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 22:46:27 +0200 Subject: Can RR do Javascript? Message-ID: <5B5BB85A-AE2A-4A46-9BB4-7039FF717B62@dmp-int.com> Hi gang, Am I missing something or is it not possible to execute JavaScript from Windows? I am creating some tools using Revolution on the Mac, using AppleScript to communicate with Adobe InDesign and Acrobat. Now I want to port them to Windows and have started to recreate all AppleScripts in JavaScript, but how do I execute them from within Revolution? Any advice? Anyone? Thanks in advance. Warm regards, Ton Kuypers Digital Media Partners bvba Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530 Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04 http://www.dmp-int.com From soapdog at mac.com Tue Jul 4 16:54:47 2006 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 17:54:47 -0300 Subject: Can RR do Javascript? In-Reply-To: <5B5BB85A-AE2A-4A46-9BB4-7039FF717B62@dmp-int.com> References: <5B5BB85A-AE2A-4A46-9BB4-7039FF717B62@dmp-int.com> Message-ID: Ton, The technology that enable you to use AppleScript from Rev is not related to Rev per se, it's a side effect of OpenScripting Architecture by Apple. Windows unfortunatly has no counter-part for that right now. Although both languages have similar sounding name, they are not related. You will not be able to execute javascript from Rev. You could try building an external for that or picking js runtime and calling it from the shell() but Rev cannot execute javascript by using a DO call... Andre On Jul 4, 2006, at 5:46 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote: > Hi gang, > > Am I missing something or is it not possible to execute JavaScript > from Windows? > > I am creating some tools using Revolution on the Mac, using > AppleScript to communicate with Adobe InDesign and Acrobat. Now I > want to port them to Windows and have started to recreate all > AppleScripts in JavaScript, but how do I execute them from within > Revolution? > > Any advice? Anyone? > > Thanks in advance. > > > Warm regards, > > Ton Kuypers > Digital Media Partners bvba > Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530 > Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04 > http://www.dmp-int.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From kray at sonsothunder.com Tue Jul 4 16:57:51 2006 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 15:57:51 -0500 Subject: Can RR do Javascript? In-Reply-To: <5B5BB85A-AE2A-4A46-9BB4-7039FF717B62@dmp-int.com> Message-ID: On 7/4/06 3:46 PM, "Ton Kuypers" wrote: > Hi gang, > > Am I missing something or is it not possible to execute JavaScript > from Windows? Well, you can execute .js script files the same way you can execute .vbs script files from Rev, but of course if you do anything unseeming a virus warning will probably crop up... > I am creating some tools using Revolution on the Mac, using > AppleScript to communicate with Adobe InDesign and Acrobat. Now I > want to port them to Windows and have started to recreate all > AppleScripts in JavaScript, but how do I execute them from within > Revolution? Write them to a file and then "launch" them should do it... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From kray at sonsothunder.com Tue Jul 4 17:02:22 2006 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:02:22 -0500 Subject: Exporting transparent PNGs (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/4/06 6:54 AM, "Chris Carroll-Davis" wrote: > Hello again folks. > > I recently posted a question about Rev's weird behaviour when > exporting transparent PNGs from fields with Japanese text. No-one > (understandably) was able to offer any help so, as is often the case, > I think I'll be looking for a workaround... > > ... Exporting non-transparent PNGs works fine so, in theory, should I > not be able to export the image (perhaps to clipboard or variable) > then apply this to a graphic as an alpha channel? Then export the > resulting image as transparent PNG? > > So... two questions: > 1) Does the above workaround solution sound feasible? > 2) How the devil do I do it???!! > > I've had a few half-hearted attempts at using the alphadata property, > but I can't get it to work at all! Can anyone point me to some > example stacks that use this property that I can dissect? Have you looked at the "dissertation" at: http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/imag003.htm or http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/imag005.htm ?? Perhaps those will help... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From tkuypers at dmp-int.com Tue Jul 4 17:27:37 2006 From: tkuypers at dmp-int.com (Ton Kuypers) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 23:27:37 +0200 Subject: Can RR do Javascript? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Now THAT is what I call good news :-)) Will test it first thing tomorrow... Not as elegant as "Do tScript as AppleScript" but it just might work for me! Thanks. Warm regards, Ton Kuypers Digital Media Partners bvba Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530 Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04 http://www.dmp-int.com On 4-jul-06, at 22:57, Ken Ray wrote: > On 7/4/06 3:46 PM, "Ton Kuypers" wrote: > >> Hi gang, >> >> Am I missing something or is it not possible to execute JavaScript >> from Windows? > > Well, you can execute .js script files the same way you can > execute .vbs > script files from Rev, but of course if you do anything unseeming a > virus > warning will probably crop up... > >> I am creating some tools using Revolution on the Mac, using >> AppleScript to communicate with Adobe InDesign and Acrobat. Now I >> want to port them to Windows and have started to recreate all >> AppleScripts in JavaScript, but how do I execute them from within >> Revolution? > > Write them to a file and then "launch" them should do it... > > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From asgg35 at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jul 4 17:33:47 2006 From: asgg35 at dsl.pipex.com (Chris Carroll-Davis) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 22:33:47 +0100 Subject: Exporting transparent PNGs (again) In-Reply-To: References: <4B5077AE-A873-4AEE-AC97-0DEDD0FD08F2@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: Dave - Thanks so much! Yes, your routine is much faster than mine... though I'm not sure why!! Here is my code: on mouseUp put alphadata of image "black" into temp put the milliseconds into tStart ## for speed calc repeat with n = 1 to number of chars in imagedata of image "A1"/4 put char n*4 of imagedata of image "A1" into char n of temp end repeat put the milliseconds - tStart && length(tMaskData) ##speed score set alphadata of image "black" to temp end mouseUp For some reason, even though my loop is only a quarter of the length of yours with just one line of code in it (and no decisions) it is much slower. It was slower still because I was (for daft reasons I wont go into!) originally doing the loop backwards. I'll try to tweak to improve speed further, but even as it stands I think it should be fine. Also, thanks Ken for the links. They helped me understand what is going on now! Regards, Happy Chris On 4 Jul 2006, at 18:10, Dave Cragg wrote: > > I'm not sure what calculations you are doing in the loop, but it > sounds too slow. The following routine creates alphaData from a 300 > x 300 grayscale image in less than a second on my not so fast > machine. (You'll probably need to substitute the calculation inside > the loop with your own.) > > I'm sure others will step up with faster alternatives. :-) > > > on mouseUp > > put the imageData of image 1 into tImageData > put the milliseconds into tStart ## for speed calc > put 0 into tCount > repeat for each char tChar in tImageData > add 1 to tCount > if tCount = 4 then > put numToChar(255 - charToNum(tChar)) after tMaskData > put 0 into tCount > end if > end repeat > put the milliseconds - tStart && length(tMaskData) ##speed score > set the alphaData of image 1 to tMaskData > end mouseUp > > Cheers > Dave > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From alex at tweedly.net Tue Jul 4 17:53:03 2006 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:53:03 +0100 Subject: Exporting transparent PNGs (again) In-Reply-To: References: <4B5077AE-A873-4AEE-AC97-0DEDD0FD08F2@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <44AAE33F.1030300@tweedly.net> Chris Carroll-Davis wrote: > Dave - > > Thanks so much! Yes, your routine is much faster than mine... though > I'm not sure why!! > > Here is my code: > > on mouseUp > put alphadata of image "black" into temp > put the milliseconds into tStart ## for speed calc > repeat with n = 1 to number of chars in imagedata of image "A1"/4 > put char n*4 of imagedata of image "A1" into char n of temp > end repeat > put the milliseconds - tStart && length(tMaskData) ##speed score > set alphadata of image "black" to temp > end mouseUp > > For some reason, even though my loop is only a quarter of the length > of yours with just one line of code in it (and no decisions) it is > much slower. It was slower still because I was (for daft reasons I > wont go into!) originally doing the loop backwards. > Two obvious possible reasons .... and probably more that I didn't immediately see. 1. I suspect taking the imagedata of the image may take some time, so instead of repeat with n = 1 to number of chars in imagedata of image "A1"/4 put char n*4 of imagedata of image "A1" into char n of temp I would have done put the imagedata of image "A1" into tImageData repeat with n = 1 to number of chars in imagedata of image "A1"/4 put char n*4 of tImageData into char n of temp 2. Putting a value into "into char N of tVar" happens quickly - but slower that putting "after tVar" so I'd actually make that central line be put char n*4 of tImageData after temp This might still be slower than the other method, because "repeat for each char ..." is very fast - possibly fast enough that going around the loop 4 times as often beats the cost of accessing "char N*4" -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 30/06/2006 From smith.sgt at gmail.com Tue Jul 4 21:42:53 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 21:42:53 -0400 Subject: questions for altBrowser users Message-ID: Have any of you had any luck getting shortcuts like Ctrl-c (or Apple-c) to work within the browser view? Also, is it possible to use the XBrowser_Get "selected" command to mimic the "Find" command in most browsers? I've only gotten it to find the very first instance of the word. Thank you. From chipp at chipp.com Tue Jul 4 22:13:34 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 21:13:34 -0500 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> Hey Richard, I know you know this. The browser plugin wars are over. Macromedia won (with Flash), end of story....at least that's what any investor worth his salt will tell you. Richard, I agree with you, the future is AJAX, DOM, Jscript and Frameworks. Just check out what the investors ARE investing in. I know you remeber Meta-Creations. They sold their whole company (tons of great programs) and everything in it, lock, stock and barrel and bet their future on a plugin. That was 7 years ago, and just look how far they've come! Let's all get serious, perhaps it is technically feasible..or not. But's it definitely not feasible marketing-wise. I mean who in their right mind would believe a company with RR's resources could/would ever execute such a late-stage plugin wars strategy??? The marketing considerations alone are staggering. Perhaps if RR was sold to Google or IBM or someone with the resources, but even then I doubt we'd see a RR native plugin. -Chipp On 7/3/06, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I haven't found an investor willing to back it. Maybe I'm just not well > connected. I would enjoy seeing anyone able demonstrate the business > case for this plugin with an investor willing to underwrite it. From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Tue Jul 4 22:22:48 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 19:22:48 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> <7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607041922x7935560el13bc99063a72eca6@mail.gmail.com> Chipp...... I agree with you 1000%. New browser functionality has to come either in Java applets (yuk), Flash apps (less yukky and even some good things about the platform), streaming multimedia (QT/WMP/MP3/Real seem viable), or AJAX/DHTML. I'm greatly intrigued by the idea of buliding a Revolution tool for creating Web apps. The Rev tool would spit out AJAX/DHTML code which could then be deployed on a server. I'm early in the process of studying the issues involved there but that could be a real win-win. But a Rev browser plug-in? Not likely. On 7/4/06, Chipp Walters wrote: > > The browser plugin wars are over. > Macromedia won (with Flash), end of story....at least that's what any > investor worth his salt will tell you. > > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From chipp at chipp.com Tue Jul 4 22:37:20 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 21:37:20 -0500 Subject: A Newbie's ramblings. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7aa52a210607041937l4c08be77y921a10e6e7eceae6@mail.gmail.com> Barry, Dan Shafer and I recently finished hosting RevConWest in Monterey, CA. It was IMO a wonderful success. Kevin Miller and Lynn Fredricks from RR were both there and answered many of the same questions. As an Enterprise user myself, and one who uses Rev to make a living, I've been very pleased with the rapid updates and bug fixes in 2.7. For, as Kevin explained, 2.7 was a very big overhaul of the graphics engine to put Rev in place to do all the wonderful things which are now present in modern day OS'es. Any type of endeavor of that magnitude will introduce bugs. In fact, I found a few of them myself as a beta-tester, but feel strongly it's a good enough release to have announced our newest product, ButtonGadget2, with support for Rev 2.7 (www.buttongadget.com). We are also a strong 3rd party supporter of RR as well, and you can read case-studies, download free plugins and see some of our Rev 3rd party products at: www.altuit.com Good luck with Rev and welcome to the community! From chipp at chipp.com Tue Jul 4 22:44:01 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 21:44:01 -0500 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7aa52a210607041944h69f5d6rd739fe8f055a11e3@mail.gmail.com> Kay, Great point. Fact is, marketing is where Jobs truly shines! On 7/2/06, Kay C Lan wrote: > My point exactly. How many other CEO out there can make so much money out of > such irrelevance. From a technological standpoint, truly embarrassing. From > a marketing standpoint, head a shoulders, world record, Gold medal, hall of > fame never to be forgotten kinda of stuff. From chipp at chipp.com Tue Jul 4 22:51:19 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 21:51:19 -0500 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: References: <7aa52a210606291328x71692b14qa610e01aedced214@mail.gmail.com> <7aa52a210606291934g7067868dmfe0541c9b36c7e4c@mail.gmail.com> <7aa52a210607011548x60404dd0r67585aab15d000dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607041951r5caccddegeac44cdd45f3cecc@mail.gmail.com> Hi Wolfgang, While I don't disagree completely with your argument, please understand, MY goal in MY company was to provide users with computers-- TODAY (or rather THEN). I personally couldn't shape, nor wait for enevitable judicial and marketing forces to shape the destiny of Microsoft. Furthermore, sadly, it appears MS hasn't lost much ground here in the states, as they seem to have complete freedom to do what the want as far as our courts are concerned. Perhaps in Germany, China and India, Microsoft can be 'managed,' -- though I imagine many of the companies there work directly with/for other global companies which use Microsoft products. best, Chipp On 7/3/06, Wolfgang Bereuter wrote: > Chipp, you are very IT focused... > If M$ has 80% or 85% or 90% - no matter: Its a pest anyway: Its a > monopol. Monopols will be killed sooner or later. > Or better: shouldnt the intelligent US people better crush it until > it makes them impotent? > It will make them impotent, much less potent as they are now, or do > you really think India and China will "buy!" Billions of M$ Licenses > in this century? From wjm at wjm.org Tue Jul 4 23:42:04 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 23:42:04 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> <7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: There is no such thing as a "plugin war" and never has been one -- people can and do have multiple plugins. New ones are still being created. It's not a zero-sum game. No comparison to the "browser war" which apparently still rages on. Last I checked, ViewPoint/Enliven was doing quite nicely. They have a significant share of the market for presenting 3D models in browsers. They compete with Anark, WildTangent, and Holomatix, among others. One wonders how so many plugins for just one segment of the market could survive if the only game in town was Flash. "Let's get serious" -- If the future is in "AJAX, DOM, Jscript and Frameworks" then we're all wasting our time coding in TranScript or xTalk or whatever you want to call it, as none of those technologies speak our language. We might as well "invest" our time learning those technologies if you're right and we're "worth our salt." "Chipp Walters" wrote in message news:7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677 at mail.gmail.com... > Hey Richard, I know you know this. The browser plugin wars are over. > Macromedia won (with Flash), end of story....at least that's what any > investor worth his salt will tell you. > > Richard, I agree with you, the future is AJAX, DOM, Jscript and > Frameworks. Just check out what the investors ARE investing in. > > I know you remeber Meta-Creations. They sold their whole company (tons > of great programs) and everything in it, lock, stock and barrel and > bet their future on a plugin. That was 7 years ago, and just look how > far they've come! > > Let's all get serious, perhaps it is technically feasible..or not. > But's it definitely not feasible marketing-wise. I mean who in their > right mind would believe a company with RR's resources could/would > ever execute such a late-stage plugin wars strategy??? > > The marketing considerations alone are staggering. Perhaps if RR was > sold to Google or IBM or someone with the resources, but even then I > doubt we'd see a RR native plugin. > > -Chipp From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jul 5 00:22:08 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 23:22:08 -0500 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> <7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607042122n2137ea13s1a5ce83e55876f0d@mail.gmail.com> On 7/4/06, Bill Marriott wrote: > There is no such thing as a "plugin war" and never has been one -- people > can and do have multiple plugins. New ones are still being created. It's not > a zero-sum game. No comparison to the "browser war" which apparently still > rages on. The simple fact is, most website producers and developers are NOT interested in adding other plugin requirements for websites. And...many producers and developers are interested in AJAX, DOM. > Last I checked, ViewPoint/Enliven was doing quite nicely. Guess you haven't checked lately. There last Quarterly report announces a 45% decrease from last quarter and 29% decrease from the quarter a year ago. Plus they've announced a 30% layoff after closing on a $5.1M round less than a year ago. I don't know about your company, but the VC's I've had on my board wouldn't be happy with those numbers. > "Let's get serious" -- If the future is in "AJAX, DOM, Jscript and > Frameworks" then we're all wasting our time coding in TranScript or xTalk or > whatever you want to call it, as none of those technologies speak our > language. We might as well "invest" our time learning those technologies if > you're right and we're "worth our salt." Now, that's the first point you've made that I agree with! -Chipp From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jul 5 00:24:13 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 23:24:13 -0500 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <7aa52a210607042122n2137ea13s1a5ce83e55876f0d@mail.gmail.com> References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> <7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> <7aa52a210607042122n2137ea13s1a5ce83e55876f0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607042124p7cd50fc7se071cf3c4671830b@mail.gmail.com> Of course, they might expect me to spell 'Their' correctly!!! On 7/4/06, Chipp Walters wrote: > Guess you haven't checked lately. There last Quarterly report > announces a 45% decrease from last quarter and 29% decrease from the > quarter a year ago. Plus they've announced a 30% layoff after closing > on a $5.1M round less than a year ago. I don't know about your > company, but the VC's I've had on my board wouldn't be happy with > those numbers. From soapdog at mac.com Wed Jul 5 00:24:36 2006 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 01:24:36 -0300 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> <7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <391FA967-0E82-4B12-A919-67BC3AB33DDF@mac.com> Bill, I think Chipp meant the future of is Ajax and the DOM. We keep coding in transcript for the following reasons: * Revolution native interface provides better user experience than browser based interfaces. * Revolution native applications have more features than it's browser based cousins. * Revolution apps will work away from an internet pipe, try that with an online app. * No way in this earth that a browser based app will ever be able to launch a 100 megabytes document to work with... not matter how clever your ajax skills are. Ajax is nothing new. Ajax is simply a hack. Ajax is on the client browser side, on the server side you can have Rev, Ruby, Rebol or your favorite language (even if it starts with another letter than R). Ajax is not here to replace desktop apps. For some things it makes sense to have a online web based experience, for example, Conference Web Pages, someone organizing a conference would be happy to be able to code a little thing in Rev for the conference users to register/login and see conference features. No one is thinking about having a web based photoshop editor able to handle RAW format files... it all depends on what you're trying to build... A friend of mine is on the operating system business and will not use anything but C/C++ and he is right (gosh, never though I'd speak good of C...), I am on the network appliances business so I code in transcript because it enables me to build desktop apps that are network savvy, some other guy might be on the Web Shopping Cart wars using RoR+Ajax. We would all be correct and no one could call its option, the future. Latelly, this list is mixing apples and epiletic porpoises. Not all computer languages and computer authoring tools are made to do the same job. People keep comparing Rev to Flash to AJAX... They are very different things made to do different stuff. We can't compare them, it's like saying Photoshop is better than MS SQL Server because it has a better looking splash screen, it makes no sense. AJAX is Asynchronous Javascript + XML, what does that means? Till now, everytime your web app wanted to do something it needed to do a roundtrip to the server and refresh everything. Think of an airplane full of cargo and that everytime you want to move some message package arround you'd load and unload the whole airplane in both destinations. This takes time and effort. Now imagine that AJAX is just a super clever flock of strong pigeons, you can have how many pigeons you want. Everytime you need to send messages around, you'll just dispatch a new pigeon to roundtrip with your message, no need to load and reload everything, just launch your pigeons as your needs arrive. It's fast, it's cheap and its asynchronous because while some poor pigeon might be carrying a very heavy message that will take eons to be read and understood, the other pigeons might be carrying quick messages so your business is never stopped while the airplane business is forever waiting for the baggage carrousels to start so that they might then see the mail packages... I don't know if this is a clear comparision but I've been thinking a lot about airplanes later. The thing is, AJAX exists inside a browser, inside a web page, it's just some fancy javascript code that will breed and dispatch pigeons as needed. On the server side you might have anything you want including Rev. They are not competting technologies, actually they might complete each other. You can have your business logic code in transcript on a server CGI easy to mantain and update and have your clients with a nice browser GUI that is very responsive by using AJAX skills... I'l put some pages online about that... andre On Jul 5, 2006, at 12:42 AM, Bill Marriott wrote: > "Let's get serious" -- If the future is in "AJAX, DOM, Jscript and > Frameworks" then we're all wasting our time coding in TranScript or > xTalk or > whatever you want to call it, as none of those technologies speak our > language. We might as well "invest" our time learning those > technologies if > you're right and we're "worth our salt." From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jul 5 00:35:22 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 23:35:22 -0500 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <391FA967-0E82-4B12-A919-67BC3AB33DDF@mac.com> References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> <7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> <391FA967-0E82-4B12-A919-67BC3AB33DDF@mac.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607042135w4265b130s94fc25916d1d148@mail.gmail.com> Andre, not bad for pigeon english!!! (Someone had to say it) You are too funny with all the analogies of airports, baggage etc...ROFL!!! From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jul 5 00:44:55 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 23:44:55 -0500 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: <7aa52a210607041951r5caccddegeac44cdd45f3cecc@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aa52a210606291328x71692b14qa610e01aedced214@mail.gmail.com> <7aa52a210606291934g7067868dmfe0541c9b36c7e4c@mail.gmail.com> <7aa52a210607011548x60404dd0r67585aab15d000dc@mail.gmail.com> <7aa52a210607041951r5caccddegeac44cdd45f3cecc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607042144j5264df19q536d7b6c452d90e2@mail.gmail.com> For those of you wondering, enevitable is the envy of inevitable. From troy_lists at rpsystems.net Wed Jul 5 01:15:30 2006 From: troy_lists at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 01:15:30 -0400 Subject: Timescale of player = sample rate of audio? References: Message-ID: <04C2614B-B868-4B7A-A3C8-7BF28558842B@rpsystems.net> I'm curious... the timescale of player property seems to give me the audio sample rate, and something unrelated to the currentTime property? Most movies I've tested claim the timescale is 44100, where I would have expected the standard QT 600. What I'm really looking for is to generate the timecode value for the currenttime. Anyone have tips? -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net From viktoras at ekoinf.net Wed Jul 5 01:30:27 2006 From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (Viktoras Didziulis) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 08:30:27 +0300 (FLE Standard Time) Subject: vector graphics References: <20060704183812.94008.qmail@web60520.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44AB4E73.000001.03988@MAZYTIS> Thanks Jan! -------Original Message------- From: Jan Schenkel Date: 07/04/06 21:38:31 To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: vector graphics --- Viktoras Didziulis wrote: > > Dear all, > > Are there any good references/tutorials on how to > handle elementary vector > graphics in Transcript. What I am trying to do is: > 1) draw a polyline, polygon or point with unique > name/ID from coordinates > stored in tab delimited file as pairs of xy > coordinates, each vector object > starting in new line and assign a color to line, > point or polygon (both line > and fill); > 2) change scale - zoom-in or zoom-out, > 3)save the final vector image in a raster format > (bmp, gif or png) with > predetermined resolution, lets say 1024x768 pixels. > > What's the simpliest way of doing this ? > > Best wishes > Viktoras > Hi Viktoras, Take a look at the 'graphic' control - style 'polygon' and its 'points' property. It's a return-delimited list of points that you can get and set from a handler. So depending on the file contents, it could be as easy as: -- put URL("file:" & tFilePath) into tPoints set the points of graphic "foobar" to tPoints -- Setting the points will update the graphic's rectangle, and vice versa: change the rectangle, and Revolution will scale it for you - naturally, using multiples of the original dimensions will work best ;-) As for rastering, you can use the 'import snapshot' or 'export snapshot' commands, but I'mnot sure how you can set the resolution. Perhaps some of the media-oriented people can chime in? Hope this helped, Jan Schenkel. Quartam Reports for Revolution ===== "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." (La Rochefoucauld) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 02:27:02 2006 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 23:27:02 -0700 Subject: Exporting transparent PNGs (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The key maybe the repeat for each which is a sequential access rather than 'evaluate the access position each loop' I also think that the larger the data source, the slower 'repeat with x =' becomes. Try these runs and see if the results are linear or exponential. get ( number of chars in imagedata of image "A1"/4) repeat with n = 1 to it/10 repeat with n = 1 to it/5 repeat with n = 1 to it/4 repeat with n = 1 to it/2 repeat with n = 1 to it/1 Jim Ault Las Vegas On 7/4/06 2:33 PM, "Chris Carroll-Davis" wrote: > Dave - > > Thanks so much! Yes, your routine is much faster than mine... though > I'm not sure why!! > > Here is my code: > > on mouseUp > put alphadata of image "black" into temp > put the milliseconds into tStart ## for speed calc > repeat with n = 1 to number of chars in imagedata of image "A1"/4 > put char n*4 of imagedata of image "A1" into char n of temp > end repeat > put the milliseconds - tStart && length(tMaskData) ##speed score > set alphadata of image "black" to temp > end mouseUp > > For some reason, even though my loop is only a quarter of the length > of yours with just one line of code in it (and no decisions) it is > much slower. It was slower still because I was (for daft reasons I > wont go into!) originally doing the loop backwards. > > I'll try to tweak to improve speed further, but even as it stands I > think it should be fine. > > Also, thanks Ken for the links. They helped me understand what is > going on now! > > Regards, > > Happy Chris > > > On 4 Jul 2006, at 18:10, Dave Cragg wrote: > >> >> I'm not sure what calculations you are doing in the loop, but it >> sounds too slow. The following routine creates alphaData from a 300 >> x 300 grayscale image in less than a second on my not so fast >> machine. (You'll probably need to substitute the calculation inside >> the loop with your own.) >> >> I'm sure others will step up with faster alternatives. :-) >> >> >> on mouseUp >> >> put the imageData of image 1 into tImageData >> put the milliseconds into tStart ## for speed calc >> put 0 into tCount >> repeat for each char tChar in tImageData >> add 1 to tCount >> if tCount = 4 then >> put numToChar(255 - charToNum(tChar)) after tMaskData >> put 0 into tCount >> end if >> end repeat >> put the milliseconds - tStart && length(tMaskData) ##speed score >> set the alphaData of image 1 to tMaskData >> end mouseUp >> >> Cheers >> Dave >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From brucegregory at earthlink.net Wed Jul 5 02:43:26 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 23:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: References: <5129452.post@talk.nabble.com> <5145809.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <5176782.post@talk.nabble.com> Just to get down to brass tacks. I have no idea what all of these frameworks and languages are really intended to solve. I'm a consumer, not really a developer in the strict sense of the word. I use software to accomplish various presentation needs. I'm not that sophisticated or really all that technically oriented. I was simply looking at Revolution as a possible solution to a few of my needs along these multimedia lines. As a consumer, it was not that obvious to me what Revolution was initially intended for, what its limitations were or what it definitely was not designed to do. This has all been an exercise in "finding out", for me. So, now I found out. Still, many multimedia authoring applications that exist today have at least some of the functionality that Revolution has, and most of them support display within standard web browsers. This is pretty much the norm. It was a Revelation to me that Revolution did not offer similar translatability, or portability or whatever it is that you technocrats call it. I was just looking for a tool that did not have the Adobe label and did a lot of the same stuff that Flash does, but wasn't as expensive. Guess Revolution isn't the ticket for me. Thanks, Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/What%27s-The-Verdict%2C-Web-or-Not--tf1876146.html#a5176782 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From wjm at wjm.org Wed Jul 5 02:40:09 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 02:40:09 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com><7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> <7aa52a210607042122n2137ea13s1a5ce83e55876f0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, you got me on Viewpoint! But, do I hear you correctly that you are saying coding in Rev is a waste of time? Seriously? "Chipp Walters" wrote in message news:7aa52a210607042122n2137ea13s1a5ce83e55876f0d at mail.gmail.com... > On 7/4/06, Bill Marriott wrote: >> There is no such thing as a "plugin war" and never has been one -- people >> can and do have multiple plugins. New ones are still being created. It's >> not >> a zero-sum game. No comparison to the "browser war" which apparently >> still >> rages on. > > The simple fact is, most website producers and developers are NOT > interested in adding other plugin requirements for websites. > And...many producers and developers are interested in AJAX, DOM. > >> Last I checked, ViewPoint/Enliven was doing quite nicely. > > Guess you haven't checked lately. There last Quarterly report > announces a 45% decrease from last quarter and 29% decrease from the > quarter a year ago. Plus they've announced a 30% layoff after closing > on a $5.1M round less than a year ago. I don't know about your > company, but the VC's I've had on my board wouldn't be happy with > those numbers. > >> "Let's get serious" -- If the future is in "AJAX, DOM, Jscript and >> Frameworks" then we're all wasting our time coding in TranScript or xTalk >> or >> whatever you want to call it, as none of those technologies speak our >> language. We might as well "invest" our time learning those technologies >> if >> you're right and we're "worth our salt." > > Now, that's the first point you've made that I agree with! > > -Chipp > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From brucegregory at earthlink.net Wed Jul 5 03:27:42 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 00:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts Message-ID: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> I don't know about you, but I think multimedia authoring software should be intuitive enough, and well documented enough to allow a fairly non-technical user to do amazing things without constantly needing to ask assistance from local forum gurus. Just to give an example of what I mean, I would like to call attention to Apple's own Keynote 3 software. At a casual glance it just looks like the average presentation software package, but, if you look beneath the surface of its fantastically simple and elegant interface, it it can perform a number of highly varied, really sophisticated, multimedia things in an extremely straightforward fashion, the likes of which are much more difficult to accomplish with nearly any competing product. Almost any user, even a markedly non-technical one could become productive with this inexpensive piece of software in just a couple of hours practice. To tell you the truth, after several days of probing, I'm not so sure about Revolution being that simple to get a grasp on. I really want it to be so, dispite my first impressions. I do believe it is powerful and loaded with hidden functionality just waiting to be unlocked by my imagination, but I really don't have a clue how to go about "authoring" the kinds of presentations that I think it may be capable of authoring and that I need it to be able to author. No matter how "English-like" Revolution's programming language is, it is still programming, and envolves addressing a machine with certain unfriendly protocols that do not make much sense to my English speaking brain. Even common terms like "variable" do not imply, clearly in English, any concept I am familiar with, especially given its "English" implied meaning, though I am a reasonably educated English speaker. It is not the English-like syntax of Revolution that is the major stumblingblock for me, but understanding why I have to arrange lines of code in the order that is required, making no mistakes, in order to make even the simplest multimedia events occur. To me, programming in Transcript is like looking at the fathomless depths of the sea, or the endless horizon that spans its surface, and wondering how I can get from Arizona to Tahiti, by boat. And, the examples I have seen posted on the RunRev mother site do not specifically address very many of the kinds of tasks and whole presentations that I really am desirous and needing to make. So, I may be able to start a project, but, ultimately, because of the lack of specific presentation examples, coupled with my lack of programming background, I will be forced to consult the forum gurus, which I really feel is an unnecessary and irritating practice, in general, to have to do - especially since most of the gurus would rather be, or should be working serously at their various necessary professions, instead of racking up countless hours feeding me, one fish at a time. No what I mean? Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5177178 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jul 5 03:34:37 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 02:34:37 -0500 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> <7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> <7aa52a210607042122n2137ea13s1a5ce83e55876f0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607050034q364efb6bw3cb311eee3235fa6@mail.gmail.com> Bill, No, not a waste of time, but I agree with your point: >> We might as well "invest" our time learning those technologies if >> you're right and we're "worth our salt." Frankly, I mentioned to Dan Shafer earlier this evening, I wish I had the same prowess in AJAX as I do in Rev, as I'm sure I'd have more business-- and for sure a larger market- and one not dominated by a single company. While I suppose they're on the right track these days, they do keep changing course, especially with their low-end product. Don't get me wrong. I really *enjoy* working with RunRev. It frankly bothers me that there's not a serious buzz about how absolutely (to use a Steve Jobs phrase) 'insanely great' this tool REALLY is! But the limited resources of a small company, no matter how wisely spent, prevent this development system from gaining wide acceptance. As this thread clearly points out, newcomers (aka Greg) have a hard time figuring out what RR's good for. The fact I can build a complete cross-platform application for a client, soups to nuts, in only a couple of days is simply lost on a majority of potential users. Case in point. A couple of months ago, on a Tuesday afternoon, a client asked me to built a Chart Wizard tool for creating dashboard images for PowerPoint presentations. Said he needed it by end of day Wednesday. Mac version: http://www.gadgetplugins.com/chippstuff/ChartWizard_Setup.dmg PC version: www.gadgetplugins.com/chippstuff/ChartWizard.zip You can't get any faster than that in RAD tools (as far as I know). Sure, I have some pre-built libraries (but not the chart one), and some tools to help me with layout management and interface, but still-- less than 2 days is really fast. And it's not because I'm a great programmer, it's really the tool that's great. All that said, We still don't have paying clients knocking down our doors with apps in hand. Lots of reasons, but IMO, the biggest is the lack of exposure of RR in Enterprise or really anywhere else. Not even sure if one would really consider it Enterprise software? One more story before signing off. I met with Eric Schmidt back when he was CTO for Sun at one of those 'networking conferences' in Palm Springs. We chatted a bit and he asked me about Java and how our company liked it. I told him it was 'way too slow' for multimedia apps-- which our company built. He replied, "Yes, but as long as we stay visible and continue improving, and keep the buzz up, it won't matter." Of course he was correct. I was talking about technology, he was talking about marketing. That same mistake is made over and over by us techno-dweebs, who have difficulty understanding even crappy products, marketed well, succeed (think WalMart). Funny sidenote: Macromedia had a great (FAST) product in Director back then, but forced everyone to place a "Made with Director" label on everything done, which effectively moved them ONLY to the minor leagues and eventually OFF the playing field. IMO, Director could have competed with JAVA if some changes were made. Heck, even HC could compete if targeted correctly. Nowdays, even hardcore C types are looking seriously into all sorts of scripting languages, from Flash (ActionScript) to Python, Ruby, etc.. No doubt HyperTalk could've competed. So, yes, I would like to be able to code as quickly and efficiently in AJAX,DOM, whatever, but sadly, I think I'm already too spoiled using RunRev. best, Chipp From geradamas at yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 03:40:40 2006 From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 00:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT] Market Share Message-ID: <20060705074041.65878.qmail@web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Interesting Discussion . . . As a longtime, mainly irrational, fan of Apple computers (to a large extent based on the belief that Microsoft OS's are inferior) I have had the opportunity for the last year or so to work with a number of 'old' PCs running Ubuntu Linux. This Debian variant has allowed me to set up a teaching operation using old Pentium 3s at minimal cost - and has cut maintenance time to almost zero. I have "gone funny" and am now running Ubuntu 6.06 on the second partition of my early model (PPC) Mac-Mini. What I really enjoy about Ubuntu Linux (and, even more about XUBUNTU - the Ubuntu variant that sports the XFCE desktop) is: 1. The interface is extremely consistent.[Mac OS X.4 is "all over the place" and Windows XP looks like my Grandmother dressed up in teenage clothes (sorry Granny)]. 2. When something crashes (and that is rare) it does not lock up the whole machine and demand 20 minutes while the whole shebang is restarted and its ego is massaged. As of now, I can honestly say that I am not really anti either Microsoft or Apple - but hope that the developing desktop Linuxes will serve to stimulate both the commercial companies to sort a lot of things out. And, while I am here and on topic . . . I know that the good folks at RR treat Linux as 'the third force' (and not very forceful at that); but it does seem a pity that RR for Linux lags behind (with some of its capabilities) RR for the 2 dominant commercial OS families. sincerely, Richmond Mathewson ____________________________________________________________ "Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the fluidity of meanings users attach to words and phrases." Mathewson, 2006 ____________________________________________________________ From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jul 5 03:53:54 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 02:53:54 -0500 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> Greg, All good points for a new programmer ... in any language. The fact is, Rev is more a programming environment than a multimedia toolkit, though the recent marketing message may suggest differently. With a product as powerful as Rev, which can do so much more than Keynote, it is very difficult for first time users to 'get up to speed.' Perhaps that is why HyperCard was eventually dropped by Apple as well. Given the limited resources of a small company like RR, it is quite a challenge to market in such a wide fashion. But, the conundrum is a familiar one seen by many of the Xtalks. Market only to developers and you cannot succeed IF your exit strategy demands significant return on investment (see Allegiant). So, the thinking goes: One must find a more 'vertical niche' to market to. That niche is represented by the current RevMedia solution, which is at this early stage, still treading water. But, you cannot forsake your existing customers either, so resources are stretched trying to create a 'best in class' product for the Media channel, while improving on the developer product offerings. A tough task to say the least (not to mention all the marketing challenges as well). I don't really have any answers, other than to say Rev has gotten further than the rest of the similarly equipped companies. The product is quite capable and sound, if you take the time to learn it. But, Keynote, it's not. best, Chipp From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jul 5 03:57:47 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 02:57:47 -0500 Subject: Exporting transparent PNGs (again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7aa52a210607050057m5e4c9841ueff5972c8a28ca35@mail.gmail.com> Chris, I have an image compositing stack which should have the routines in it you need: Image Compositing at: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm best, Chipp From revolution at derbrill.de Wed Jul 5 04:31:30 2006 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:31:30 +0200 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <20060622145002.708F1826843@mail.runrev.com> References: <20060622145002.708F1826843@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi Greg, what exactly do you wish to see? There are quite a bunch of folks that write tutorials from time to time and try to make tools that make life for non programmers easier. ;-) If you want to build multimedia apps you might be interested into looking at my free eBook for a start. http://www.derbrill.de/tutorials_e.html Some of those tutorials require arcadeEngine, but there is also lots of stuff to get started with Rev. As I am in the process of writing new tutorials at the moment you might want to specify what is missing to make Rev a more user friendly experience. I would highly apreciate it. All the best, Malte From Andre.Bisseret at inria.fr Wed Jul 5 05:01:50 2006 From: Andre.Bisseret at inria.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q? Andr=E9.Bisseret ?=) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:01:50 +0200 Subject: Possible New Book Titles In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607032333o3848c21fsb6194e1f3e296756@mail.gmail.com> References: <70ed6b130607032333o3848c21fsb6194e1f3e296756@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I much appreciated your book on "Printing" and I would be very much interested by a book on "Debugging strategies and techniques". Best regards from Grenoble Andr? Le 4 juil. 06 ? 08:33, Dan Shafer a ?crit : > OK, I'm trying to figure out the best next subject on which to > produce a > SmartEBook eBooklet. The following topics remain on my list and are > candidates based on the relatively small likelihood that > fundamental changes > in Rev will obsolete them in the next year. I'd be interested in > votes, > feedback, other suggestions, etc. > > * Script-based commands > > Edit script, editscript, wait, do, scriptlimits, text/font related > properties, insert script, remove script, start using > > * The Message Box > > Examination of all panes, properties, uses of the Message Box > > * Debugging strategies and techniques > > * Parameters, Variables and Values in Transcript > > * Building and Deploying Standalones > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author > http://www.shafermedia.com > Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr Wed Jul 5 05:30:50 2006 From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 11:30:50 +0200 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <44AB86C8.1F61CE00@club-internet.fr> Greg, you might find my reply a bit rude, but I have to say that I've been involved in programming since 1978 and in man-machine interfaces design & other ergonomics since the early 80's, that I came across that kind of discussion many times and that along the years I found it rather pointless... In the early days of HC, it was also described as a tool allowing non-programmers to build sophisticated killer apps... I'm sorry to say that such a tool doesn't exist, and probably NEVER will... Any software tool (especially multimedia authoring tools) that doesn't require programming skills will always offer only a limited set of features. This set might become larger and larger as computers become faster and OS more sophisticated, but nevertheless it will never approach 10% of what you can achieve by struggling with lines of code... I usually like to compare it with buying furniture kits at Ikea versus getting carpenter skills in order to carve your own furniture from scratch... It takes somewhat longer, but the result is much more rewarding... It's actually a software vendors trick to make you think that their software will replace programing skills... they've already used that trick in the late 80's with desktop publishing when they claimed that buying PageMaker or XPress would allow you to produce professional magazines... And what happened ? The publishing market was invaded by hundreds of crappy newsletters and magazines (same situation in the late 90's with websites). The only publications that were worth considering were those designed by ppl with real design skills... Last but not least, the set of features offered by a software tool might give you the illusion to be more productive, but very soon you'll realize that a lot of ppl use those same features, and in the end, all apps made with that tool will look quite the same... JB From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Wed Jul 5 05:41:28 2006 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:41:28 +0100 Subject: POST command In-Reply-To: References: <70ed6b130607032333o3848c21fsb6194e1f3e296756@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1ACA6101-AD39-488C-82EE-431E4855F410@lacscentre.co.uk> On 4 Jul 2006, at 16:35, Richard Miller wrote: > Is there any way to stop, or check on the status of, an ongoing > POST command? For example, if a POST command had not completed > within 2 seconds, can it be aborted? To check/show the status, you can use libUrlSetStatusCallback. (see the Rev docs for a very basic example). There is no "official" way to stop a post command. However, you could try using the following undocumented command to achieve this: ulCancelRequest For example, ulCancelRequest "http://www.somewere.com/mypost.cgi" This is an internal libUrl handler that is used by the unload url routine. The same handler can also be used to cancel "get url" requests. ("non-blocking" calls such as "load url", "libUrlDownloadToFile", etc can be cancelled by using unload url) However, if you use it, be aware that it may not always be available in future liburl releases (unlikely), or it may get renamed (a little more likely). So check that it still works should you upgrade the libUrl version used in your app. Cheers Dave From asgg35 at dsl.pipex.com Wed Jul 5 05:53:30 2006 From: asgg35 at dsl.pipex.com (Chris Carroll-Davis) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:53:30 +0100 Subject: Exporting transparent PNGs (again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0CDB85D3-5E80-4D6F-8F5F-0877214B8B92@dsl.pipex.com> Jim - I'm sure you are correct here. I tried testing my loop against Dave's. On a small image my loop was 75 times slower than his. On a larger image that took about a third of a second with his routine, I expected mine to take about 20 seconds... After 5 minutes I gave up!!! Chipp - your compositing stack is great - wish I'd seen it a few days ago! With everyone's help I now have a first draft of handler that correctly exports a transparent PNG of a field containing Japanese text - just what I needed! (And I've also learned a couple of scripting lessons to boot - I had never used the "repeat for each +var" syntax before! Doh! I am a SC dinosaur and I don't think SC has this variant). Thanks so much. All I need now is a bigger brain. - Chris On 5 Jul 2006, at 07:27, Jim Ault wrote: > The key maybe the > repeat for each > which is a sequential access rather than > 'evaluate the access position each loop' > > I also think that the larger the data source, the slower 'repeat > with x =' > becomes. > > Try these runs and see if the results are linear or exponential. > > get ( number of chars in imagedata of image "A1"/4) > repeat with n = 1 to it/10 > repeat with n = 1 to it/5 > repeat with n = 1 to it/4 > repeat with n = 1 to it/2 > repeat with n = 1 to it/1 > > > Jim Ault > Las Vegas > > On 7/4/06 2:33 PM, "Chris Carroll-Davis" wrote: > >> Dave - >> >> Thanks so much! Yes, your routine is much faster than mine... though >> I'm not sure why!! >> >> Here is my code: >> >> on mouseUp >> put alphadata of image "black" into temp >> put the milliseconds into tStart ## for speed calc >> repeat with n = 1 to number of chars in imagedata of image "A1"/4 >> put char n*4 of imagedata of image "A1" into char n of temp >> end repeat >> put the milliseconds - tStart && length(tMaskData) ##speed score >> set alphadata of image "black" to temp >> end mouseUp >> >> For some reason, even though my loop is only a quarter of the length >> of yours with just one line of code in it (and no decisions) it is >> much slower. It was slower still because I was (for daft reasons I >> wont go into!) originally doing the loop backwards. >> >> I'll try to tweak to improve speed further, but even as it stands I >> think it should be fine. >> >> Also, thanks Ken for the links. They helped me understand what is >> going on now! >> >> Regards, >> >> Happy Chris >> >> >> On 4 Jul 2006, at 18:10, Dave Cragg wrote: >> >>> >>> I'm not sure what calculations you are doing in the loop, but it >>> sounds too slow. The following routine creates alphaData from a 300 >>> x 300 grayscale image in less than a second on my not so fast >>> machine. (You'll probably need to substitute the calculation inside >>> the loop with your own.) >>> >>> I'm sure others will step up with faster alternatives. :-) >>> >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> >>> put the imageData of image 1 into tImageData >>> put the milliseconds into tStart ## for speed calc >>> put 0 into tCount >>> repeat for each char tChar in tImageData >>> add 1 to tCount >>> if tCount = 4 then >>> put numToChar(255 - charToNum(tChar)) after tMaskData >>> put 0 into tCount >>> end if >>> end repeat >>> put the milliseconds - tStart && length(tMaskData) ##speed score >>> set the alphaData of image 1 to tMaskData >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> Cheers >>> Dave >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From mark at maseurope.net Wed Jul 5 06:13:10 2006 From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:13:10 +0100 Subject: Exporting transparent PNGs (again) In-Reply-To: <0CDB85D3-5E80-4D6F-8F5F-0877214B8B92@dsl.pipex.com> References: <0CDB85D3-5E80-4D6F-8F5F-0877214B8B92@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <7ADDD070-F0CF-4481-97ED-1B2C964CF0FD@maseurope.net> Chris, when I first came to Rev from HC, I also ignored the 'repeat for....' loop for quite a long time. Not anymore, though. It's so much faster that it's usually worth whatever extra code (counters etc.) that you need to put inside it. As you've found, it can make the difference between something being practical to do and not. Just bear in mind that when you do: repeat for each line L in someList doSomething with L L is not to be changed, or you are messing with the loop variable, and will get 'unexpected' results, so a typical use might be repeat for each line L in someList put L into temp -- copy L into a temporary variable add 4 to item 3 of temp -- modify as desired put temp & cr after newList -- store modified line in new list end repeat delete char -1 of newList -- delete trailing cr from new list There must be a huge number of loops that follow this basic theme in all the Rev made software out there. Best, Mark On 5 Jul 2006, at 10:53, Chris Carroll-Davis wrote: > Jim - > > I'm sure you are correct here. I tried testing my loop against > Dave's. On a small image my loop was 75 times slower than his. On > a larger image that took about a third of a second with his > routine, I expected mine to take about 20 seconds... After 5 > minutes I gave up!!! > > Chipp - your compositing stack is great - wish I'd seen it a few > days ago! > > With everyone's help I now have a first draft of handler that > correctly exports a transparent PNG of a field containing Japanese > text - just what I needed! (And I've also learned a couple of > scripting lessons to boot - I had never used the "repeat for each > +var" syntax before! Doh! I am a SC dinosaur and I don't think SC > has this variant). Thanks so much. > > All I need now is a bigger brain. > > - Chris > > > > On 5 Jul 2006, at 07:27, Jim Ault wrote: > >> The key maybe the >> repeat for each >> which is a sequential access rather than >> 'evaluate the access position each loop' >> >> I also think that the larger the data source, the slower 'repeat >> with x =' >> becomes. >> >> Try these runs and see if the results are linear or exponential. >> >> get ( number of chars in imagedata of image "A1"/4) >> repeat with n = 1 to it/10 >> repeat with n = 1 to it/5 >> repeat with n = 1 to it/4 >> repeat with n = 1 to it/2 >> repeat with n = 1 to it/1 >> >> >> Jim Ault >> Las Vegas >> >> On 7/4/06 2:33 PM, "Chris Carroll-Davis" >> wrote: >> >>> Dave - >>> >>> Thanks so much! Yes, your routine is much faster than mine... >>> though >>> I'm not sure why!! >>> >>> Here is my code: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> put alphadata of image "black" into temp >>> put the milliseconds into tStart ## for speed calc >>> repeat with n = 1 to number of chars in imagedata of image "A1"/4 >>> put char n*4 of imagedata of image "A1" into char n of temp >>> end repeat >>> put the milliseconds - tStart && length(tMaskData) ##speed score >>> set alphadata of image "black" to temp >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> For some reason, even though my loop is only a quarter of the length >>> of yours with just one line of code in it (and no decisions) it is >>> much slower. It was slower still because I was (for daft reasons I >>> wont go into!) originally doing the loop backwards. >>> >>> I'll try to tweak to improve speed further, but even as it stands I >>> think it should be fine. >>> >>> Also, thanks Ken for the links. They helped me understand what is >>> going on now! >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Happy Chris >>> >>> >>> On 4 Jul 2006, at 18:10, Dave Cragg wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I'm not sure what calculations you are doing in the loop, but it >>>> sounds too slow. The following routine creates alphaData from a 300 >>>> x 300 grayscale image in less than a second on my not so fast >>>> machine. (You'll probably need to substitute the calculation inside >>>> the loop with your own.) >>>> >>>> I'm sure others will step up with faster alternatives. :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> >>>> put the imageData of image 1 into tImageData >>>> put the milliseconds into tStart ## for speed calc >>>> put 0 into tCount >>>> repeat for each char tChar in tImageData >>>> add 1 to tCount >>>> if tCount = 4 then >>>> put numToChar(255 - charToNum(tChar)) after tMaskData >>>> put 0 into tCount >>>> end if >>>> end repeat >>>> put the milliseconds - tStart && length(tMaskData) ##speed score >>>> set the alphaData of image 1 to tMaskData >>>> end mouseUp >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Dave >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-revolution mailing list >>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription >>> preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From wjm at wjm.org Wed Jul 5 10:02:34 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:02:34 -0400 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com><7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com><7aa52a210607042122n2137ea13s1a5ce83e55876f0d@mail.gmail.com> <7aa52a210607050034q364efb6bw3cb311eee3235fa6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Whew :) I'm glad you weren't saying it's a waste of time!! For me, what makes the product amazing is the language itself. It truly is enjoyable to write code in xTalk/transcript/Revolution. I've long wondered what the legal side of things was all about ... can anyone with the smarts, energy, and time make a HyperTalk variant? Chipp Walters wrote: > Frankly, I mentioned to Dan Shafer earlier this evening, I wish I had > the same prowess in AJAX as I do in Rev, as I'm sure I'd have more > business-- and for sure a larger market- and one not dominated by a > single company. No kidding. AJAX is ultimately just a way to code web pages and servers so they do "bite sized" transactions within a page, rather than reloading the whole ball of wax at every user interaction. It's a baby step closer to how a "real application" works, but still far short of what is possible when coding an application. Can you imagine if you had a nice, integrated client-server model, fully-fleshed out, based on transcript? How much fun would that be? > It frankly > bothers me that there's not a serious buzz about how absolutely (to > use a Steve Jobs phrase) 'insanely great' this tool REALLY is! But the > limited resources of a small company, no matter how wisely spent, > prevent this development system from gaining wide acceptance. As this > thread clearly points out, newcomers (aka Greg) have a hard time > figuring out what RR's good for. I remember when HyperCard first came out, one of my friends was very dismissive of it, saying "what kind of database program doesn't print labels?" He looks at HyperCard and saw a database program. Others looked at it and saw a multimedia tool. Others saw a programming language, etc. I think Rev still suffers from this "identity crisis" to an extent. > The fact I can build a complete cross-platform application for a > client, soups to nuts, in only a couple of days is simply lost on a > majority of potential users. > Case in point. A couple of months ago, on a Tuesday afternoon, a > client asked me to built a Chart Wizard tool for creating dashboard > images for PowerPoint presentations. Said he needed it by end of day > Wednesday. > You can't get any faster than that in RAD tools (as far as I know). > Sure, I have some pre-built libraries (but not the chart one), and > some tools to help me with layout management and interface, but > still-- less than 2 days is really fast. And it's not because I'm a > great programmer, it's really the tool that's great. I wrote a client-server application in just over 4 days with Rev. I'm not saying it's the greatest thing ever, but you can find the standalone at http://merryotter.com/stocksensor. Hundreds of people have had access to the same XML-based server data-source I did, and wrote some "competing" utilities in things ranging from VB.net to JavaScript. Mine is the fastest and most powerful out there, took the least amount of time to build, and is used by most of the "top 10" traders in that game. While it's running, it uses about 3MB of RAM at most. The official web-based interface for that game uses 32MB to 35MB and is slow, slow, slow. That link has the standalone; if you're interested contact me off-list for the Rev stack. Come to think... what it really needs is a decent chart facility :) > All that said, We still don't have paying clients knocking down our > doors with apps in hand. Lots of reasons, but IMO, the biggest is the > lack of exposure of RR in Enterprise or really anywhere else. Not even > sure if one would really consider it Enterprise software? I'll attribute it to a conspiracy on the part of white-robed programmer elites who want to ensure only the blessed have access to computing power :) > So, yes, I would like to be able to code as quickly and efficiently in > AJAX,DOM, whatever, but sadly, I think I'm already too spoiled using > RunRev. I think we're all spoiled in that way, which is why we (or, at least, "I") want to extend our posh, comfy environs to the Web. From pevensen at siboneylg.com Wed Jul 5 10:20:19 2006 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 09:20:19 -0500 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> <7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060705091604.17e303d0@exchange.slg.com> This thread has gone on a bit, but I just wanted to chime in. The main reason we are getting pressure to deliver a browser-based solution is that schools do not want to go and "touch" each machine to install anything. This includes a new plug-in. Requiring plug-in removes the reason for wanting a browser-based product. Granted, Revolution could deliver the same thing with a small runtime that is installed on a server someplace, eliminating the need to install anything on the client, but then everything would have to be redone in Revolution. At 10:42 PM 7/4/2006, you wrote: >There is no such thing as a "plugin war" and never has been one -- people >can and do have multiple plugins. New ones are still being created. It's not >a zero-sum game. No comparison to the "browser war" which apparently still >rages on. Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jul 5 11:02:24 2006 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:02:24 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? Message-ID: <44ABD480.7030406@fourthworld.com> Peter T. Evensen wrote: > This thread has gone on a bit, but I just wanted to chime in. The main > reason we are getting pressure to deliver a browser-based solution is that > schools do not want to go and "touch" each machine to install > anything. This includes a new plug-in. Requiring plug-in removes the > reason for wanting a browser-based product. That's been the primary concern with every IT manager I've spoken with on this issue as well. With consumers it's not a problem: most of them will simply not download and install the plugin, so it's no problem for them to just move on to any other page on the web. ;) > Granted, Revolution could deliver the same thing with a small runtime that > is installed on a server someplace, eliminating the need to install > anything on the client, You'd still need some sort of client to run downloaded elements, unless I misunderstand the scenario you envision. > but then everything would have to be redone in Revolution. Repurposing content is a major task that ultimately affects us all at one time or another. May I ask what sort of formats these content elements are currently in? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pevensen at siboneylg.com Wed Jul 5 11:08:59 2006 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 10:08:59 -0500 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <44ABD480.7030406@fourthworld.com> References: <44ABD480.7030406@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060705100646.02b0bff0@exchange.slg.com> What I meant below was that you could write a Revolution standalone that requires nothing to be installed on each workstation. Simply install that (and whatever stacks and media you need, if you don't pull that off the web) on a server in the institution, and run the standalone from the server. The Revolution would be the "client" in this scenario, but would require no modification to the workstations. This would give you the same end result that IT managers are desiring, just not in a web-browser. At 10:02 AM 7/5/2006, you wrote: >Peter T. Evensen wrote: > >>Granted, Revolution could deliver the same thing with a small runtime >>that is installed on a server someplace, eliminating the need to install >>anything on the client, > >You'd still need some sort of client to run downloaded elements, unless I >misunderstand the scenario you envision. Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Wed Jul 5 11:48:14 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 08:48:14 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <391FA967-0E82-4B12-A919-67BC3AB33DDF@mac.com> References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> <7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> <391FA967-0E82-4B12-A919-67BC3AB33DDF@mac.com> Message-ID: This is the first time that I've heard AJAX understandably explained and defined! Their web site doesn't even do that. They already assume you know. thanks Andre, sqb > > >AJAX is Asynchronous Javascript + XML, what does that means? Till >now, everytime your web app wanted to do something it needed to do a >roundtrip to the server and refresh everything. Think of an airplane >full of cargo and that everytime you want to move some message >package arround you'd load and unload ... > >andre > -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From bobs at twft.com Wed Jul 5 11:55:12 2006 From: bobs at twft.com (Robert Sneidar) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 08:55:12 -0700 Subject: Finding in reverse Message-ID: <9A014ADB-DFE5-4745-B4FD-1C7362CC6A34@twft.com> Is there a way to scan a text string from end to beginning for something without using a loop? I am trying to "be binary" (for those of you conference goers) and I am trying to extract just a file's name from the full path. It seems to be something of a difficult thing to do in a one liner. What would have helped is if the offset function had some way to reverse directions, like an arguement that made offset work end to beginning. Foxpro has 2 functions that are similar, AT() and RAT(). The R is for reverse obviously, and the number is for occurances not characters to skip. Oh well. Maybe we need an roffset() function. :-) Bob Sneidar IT Manager Logos Management Calvary Chapel CM From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jul 5 11:57:48 2006 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:57:48 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? Message-ID: <44ABE17C.1030104@fourthworld.com> Stephen Barncard wrote: > This is the first time that I've heard AJAX understandably explained > and defined! > > Their web site doesn't even do that. They already assume you know. AJAX (aka JavaScript/DHTML) is an open standard -- who is "they"? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Wed Jul 5 12:00:33 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 09:00:33 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: They wouldn't be here if they didn't want to be. Besides, it's instant karma -- often they need help too.. so it comes around. This is the wonderful non-technical part about Rev - the online community - who can easily become your friends. Don't be afraid to ask on this list - it's what it's for!! Gurus weren't always gurus... -- if you doubt me, look at the ramblings of some of the future 'gurus' you see here in their early days with rev - in old Rev list archives... heh heh - yep they asked "dumb" questions too. As far as the complexity of the language - the builders of any language have to trade off complexity for versatility - and the programmer is in charge. How can you expect a program do everything for you automatically and at the same time have all the options available? At some point, actions have to be described, and Rev is a lot easier than C++ to read and understand. But one still has to apply some classic rules and techniques of programming. >background, I will be forced to consult the forum gurus, which I really feel >is an unnecessary and irritating practice, in general, to have to do - >especially since most of the gurus would rather be, or should be working >serously at their various necessary professions, instead of racking up >countless hours feeding me, one fish at a time. No what I mean? > >Greg Smith -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From alex at harryscollar.com Wed Jul 5 12:05:53 2006 From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 02:05:53 +1000 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <20060705052553.C4FEE826E6D@mail.runrev.com> References: <20060705052553.C4FEE826E6D@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <44ABE361.9040805@harryscollar.com> Hi I really hope "AJAX" gets replaced with something better.. & soon because it can be a pain to implement :) .. especially when compared to a tool like rev, which as an all-round development tool makes the same things possible with less hassle. AJAX does what is does but can not be considered to be as a productive tool as any good IDE. Rev has come a long way in many aspects to the Metacard days but isn't perfect.. damn I wish we had a better default table object :) Adobe's Flash has also come along way but like AJAX it's main delivery device is a internet browser. Where does that leave us rev-users? Well we've recently had Altuit's great altBrowser so now we can embed a browser instance into out own interfaces... great! A rev plugin would be nice but I'd rather have a better rev. Bring on multi-threading.. bring on the ability to easily access data in a stack file without loading the whole frigging thing into memory.. back to basics that make computer languages useful. Personally I don't want to built a better internet browser, I want to build better software. I also think the plugin path is a long path that may not satisfy everyone unless it is a simple process for the end user. Anyway.. just my 2c regards alex From wjm at wjm.org Wed Jul 5 12:08:42 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 12:08:42 -0400 Subject: Finding in reverse References: <9A014ADB-DFE5-4745-B4FD-1C7362CC6A34@twft.com> Message-ID: Two lines: set the itemdelimiter to "/" put the last item of myFilePath "Robert Sneidar" wrote in message news:9A014ADB-DFE5-4745-B4FD-1C7362CC6A34 at twft.com... > Is there a way to scan a text string from end to beginning for something > without using a loop? I am trying to "be binary" (for those of you > conference goers) and I am trying to extract just a file's name from the > full path. It seems to be something of a difficult thing to do in a one > liner. From klaus at major-k.de Wed Jul 5 12:14:01 2006 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 18:14:01 +0200 Subject: Finding in reverse In-Reply-To: References: <9A014ADB-DFE5-4745-B4FD-1C7362CC6A34@twft.com> Message-ID: <981757D7-E4A1-4955-828B-2B2285364238@major-k.de> Hi Bill and Robert, > Two lines: > > set the itemdelimiter to "/" > put the last item of myFilePath > > "Robert Sneidar" wrote in message > news:9A014ADB-DFE5-4745-B4FD-1C7362CC6A34 at twft.com... >> Is there a way to scan a text string from end to beginning for >> something >> without using a loop? I am trying to "be binary" (for those of you >> conference goers) and I am trying to extract just a file's name >> from the >> full path. It seems to be something of a difficult thing to do in >> a one >> liner. or a one-liner (whith a little bit of cheating!) ... set the itemdelimiter to "/"; put last item of myFilePath ... :-) Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From soapdog at mac.com Wed Jul 5 12:14:01 2006 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:14:01 -0300 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: References: <44A8E176.9060300@fourthworld.com> <7aa52a210607041913s50f5d60bk1e4ad8ec7ec3f677@mail.gmail.com> <391FA967-0E82-4B12-A919-67BC3AB33DDF@mac.com> Message-ID: <8787E30B-6040-4DC5-B706-4650E1DFDC50@mac.com> Stephen, you know, you made a pigeon english speaker happy today!!!! I plan to put out some pages explaining this thing... I am just trying to get my stuff packed for release, and just for the kicks, I'll put some AJAX on my site and allow folks do download everything. Cheers andre On Jul 5, 2006, at 12:48 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote: > This is the first time that I've heard AJAX understandably > explained and defined! > > Their web site doesn't even do that. They already assume you know. > > thanks Andre, > > sqb > > >> >> >> AJAX is Asynchronous Javascript + XML, what does that means? Till >> now, everytime your web app wanted to do something it needed to do >> a roundtrip to the server and refresh everything. Think of an >> airplane full of cargo and that everytime you want to move some >> message package arround you'd load and unload ... >> >> andre >> > > -- > stephen barncard > s a n f r a n c i s c o > - - - - - - - - - - - - > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From soapdog at mac.com Wed Jul 5 12:15:23 2006 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:15:23 -0300 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <44ABE17C.1030104@fourthworld.com> References: <44ABE17C.1030104@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <63CFBA81-94D3-41E6-8F0B-A169A65D771F@mac.com> They might me the evil conglomerate of O'Reilly and Friends that coins things like Web 2.0 and AJAX and other acronyms that means nothing but sells books.... (heck even I have a Foundations of AJAX book... as if this thing was new and not been around since 2000) Andre On Jul 5, 2006, at 12:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Stephen Barncard wrote: > >> This is the first time that I've heard AJAX understandably >> explained and defined! >> Their web site doesn't even do that. They already assume you know. > > AJAX (aka JavaScript/DHTML) is an open standard -- who is "they"? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > ___________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 12:22:10 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 09:22:10 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607050922s606b46e7sfcc91ebb7f1e523c@mail.gmail.com> Greg, what I hear you asking for, I think, is a versatile presentation tool. I'm not sure how "versatile" it needs to be or how much scripting you're willing to engage in to get that flexibility, but I can say that at the recent RevCon West confernece in Monterey, several speakers used Rev stacks/applications as their presentation platform. My *guess* is that a fairly powerful, scriptable, general-purpose presentation tool could be fashioned in Rev, starting with one or more of those apps already in use, in a fairly short period of time. Maybe rather than futzing with learning Transcript yourself, you could consider describing more precisely what it is that you want, what it is that's missing, in Rev. Then perhaps one or more of the Rev coders hanging around this list would be able to generate a template or a tool for you to use exactly as you want, including extending it in some cool ways. Just a thought. On 7/5/06, Stephen Barncard wrote: > > They wouldn't be here if they didn't want to be. Besides, it's > instant karma -- often they need help too.. so it comes around. This > is the wonderful non-technical part about Rev - the online community > - who can easily become your friends. > > Don't be afraid to ask on this list - it's what it's for!! Gurus > weren't always gurus... -- if you doubt me, look at the ramblings of > some of the future 'gurus' you see here in their early days with rev > - in old Rev list archives... > heh heh - yep they asked "dumb" questions too. > > As far as the complexity of the language - the builders of any > language have to trade off complexity for versatility - and the > programmer is in charge. How can you expect a program do everything > for you automatically and at the same time have all the options > available? > > At some point, actions have to be described, and Rev is a lot easier > than C++ to read and understand. But one still has to apply some > classic rules and techniques of programming. > > >background, I will be forced to consult the forum gurus, which I really > feel > >is an unnecessary and irritating practice, in general, to have to do - > >especially since most of the gurus would rather be, or should be working > >serously at their various necessary professions, instead of racking up > >countless hours feeding me, one fish at a time. No what I mean? > > > >Greg Smith > > -- > stephen barncard > s a n f r a n c i s c o > - - - - - - - - - - - - > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Wed Jul 5 12:22:47 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 09:22:47 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <44ABE17C.1030104@fourthworld.com> References: <44ABE17C.1030104@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Actually I was thinking about Ruby on Rails. And it was a while ago. They've upgraded their web site and they do "explain" now. Sorry. My bad. http://www.rubyonrails.org/ There is an Ajax.org http://ajax.org/ but it's not official -- and they explain. and then there's the original: http://www.colgate.com/app/Colgate/US/HC/Products/Dishwashing/Ajax.cvsp >Stephen Barncard wrote: > >>This is the first time that I've heard AJAX understandably >>explained and defined! >> >>Their web site doesn't even do that. They already assume you know. > >AJAX (aka JavaScript/DHTML) is an open standard -- who is "they"? > >-- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > ___________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 12:30:20 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 09:30:20 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <63CFBA81-94D3-41E6-8F0B-A169A65D771F@mac.com> References: <44ABE17C.1030104@fourthworld.com> <63CFBA81-94D3-41E6-8F0B-A169A65D771F@mac.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607050930h2a24100aub1dbc300493978d8@mail.gmail.com> Packagng up neatly things that have been around a while and writing documentation about the resulting "thing" is valuable work and makes a useful contribution to the technology culture. I consider myself to be fairly conversant with Web development technologies, particulalry JavaScript and CSS, about which I have written books and which I've used in lots of projects. However, the implications of the XMLHTTPRequest object that is at the heart of the key concept in AJAX escaped my attention for a long while. That's because it was originally implemented by MS as an IE-only technology (ActiveX components) and were therefore of little interest to me. There is a lot of disparagement in this and related threads on this board of the Web interface, but unless you've spent some time really looking at what can be done with the UI in a browser when you can eliminate the repeated server round-trips and full-page refreshes of the "old Web," you really can't know for sure whether those limitations are real or not. I've been quite shocked by the fine quality of the UI in many AJAX applications (as have many thousands of others). They approach, but do not quite yet reach, the fluidity and transparency of a true application interface. And in situations like those that have been described by educators and some IT directors directly and indirectly here, the browser deliverability of the applications is often seen as a huge win. Your recent comparison of this technology to smart pigeons replacing bloated airline freight hauling was, by the way, brillilantly on target. I'm going to steal it in talking with clients. Maybe you should have copyrighted it! LOL On 7/5/06, Andre Garzia wrote: > > They might me the evil conglomerate of O'Reilly and Friends that > coins things like Web 2.0 and AJAX and other acronyms that means > nothing but sells books.... > > (heck even I have a Foundations of AJAX book... as if this thing was > new and not been around since 2000) > > Andre > > On Jul 5, 2006, at 12:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > Stephen Barncard wrote: > > > >> This is the first time that I've heard AJAX understandably > >> explained and defined! > >> Their web site doesn't even do that. They already assume you know. > > > > AJAX (aka JavaScript/DHTML) is an open standard -- who is "they"? > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Media Corporation > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From Stgoldberg at aol.com Wed Jul 5 13:10:52 2006 From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:10:52 EDT Subject: Possible new book titles Message-ID: <537.2b6536b.31dd4c9c@aol.com> Dan, One thing I think is needed is a thorough explanation of all the checkboxes and fields in the various property inspectors. I've been using Revolution for two years now and am still unsure about the uses of a number of items in the Property Inspectors, which do not appear to be well-documented in the user guide. It think such explanation should make it easier for new users to get into Revolution and also give more experienced users added abilities. Steve Goldberg In a message dated 7/4/06 2:25:46 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: > OK, I'm trying to figure out the best next subject on which to produce a > SmartEBook eBooklet. The following topics remain on my list and are > candidates based on the relatively small likelihood that fundamental changes > in Rev will obsolete them in the next year. I'd be interested in votes, > feedback, other suggestions, etc. > From Stgoldberg at aol.com Wed Jul 5 13:13:22 2006 From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:13:22 EDT Subject: Looping in QT movies Message-ID: <512.3342194.31dd4d32@aol.com> Thanks Ken, Your script works. Steve Goldberg In a message dated 7/2/06 12:35:48 AM, Ken Ray writes: > on mouseUp > ? set the playrate of player 1 to 1 > ? play player 1 > ? CheckPlayer > end mouseUp > > on CheckPlayer > ? if the playRate of player 1 is 1 then > ? ? if the currentTime of player 1 is (the duration of player 1) then > ? ? ? set the playRate of player 1 to -1 > ? ? ? play player 1 > ? ? end if > ? else > ? ? if the currentTime of player 1 is 0 then > ? ? ? set the playRate of player 1 to 1 > ? ? ? play player 1 > ? ? end if > ? end if > ? if the optionKey is not down then? -- when you want it to stop > ? ? send "CheckPlayer" to me in 100 milliseconds > ? end if > end CheckPlayer > > From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 13:25:02 2006 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 10:25:02 -0700 Subject: Finding in reverse In-Reply-To: <981757D7-E4A1-4955-828B-2B2285364238@major-k.de> Message-ID: and then back to 2 lines for one more feature... > set the itemdelimiter to "/"; put last item of myFilePath into myFilename > set the itemdelimiter to "."; put last item of myFilename into myExtension On 7/5/06 9:14 AM, "Klaus Major" wrote: > Hi Bill and Robert, > >> Two lines: >> >> set the itemdelimiter to "/" >> put the last item of myFilePath >> >> "Robert Sneidar" wrote in message >> news:9A014ADB-DFE5-4745-B4FD-1C7362CC6A34 at twft.com... >>> Is there a way to scan a text string from end to beginning for >>> something >>> without using a loop? I am trying to "be binary" (for those of you >>> conference goers) and I am trying to extract just a file's name >>> from the >>> full path. It seems to be something of a difficult thing to do in >>> a one >>> liner. > > or a one-liner (whith a little bit of cheating!) > > ... > set the itemdelimiter to "/"; put last item of myFilePath > ... From pevensen at siboneylg.com Wed Jul 5 13:36:24 2006 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:36:24 -0500 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607050930h2a24100aub1dbc300493978d8@mail.gmail.co m> References: <44ABE17C.1030104@fourthworld.com> <63CFBA81-94D3-41E6-8F0B-A169A65D771F@mac.com> <70ed6b130607050930h2a24100aub1dbc300493978d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060705123558.200ef8b8@exchange.slg.com> Quick, Andre, before Dan uses it in a book! At 11:30 AM 7/5/2006, you wrote: >Your recent comparison of this technology to smart pigeons replacing bloated >airline freight hauling was, by the way, brillilantly on target. I'm going >to steal it in talking with clients. Maybe you should have copyrighted it! >LOL > Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Wed Jul 5 13:42:38 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:42:38 -0700 Subject: Finding in reverse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: and then there's this: set the itemdelimiter to "/"; put item 1 to -2 of myFilePath into myFolder >and then back to 2 lines for one more feature... > > set the itemdelimiter to "/"; put last item of myFilePath into myFilename > > set the itemdelimiter to "."; put last item of myFilename into myExtension > -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From bobwarren at howsoft.com Wed Jul 5 13:47:12 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 14:47:12 -0300 Subject: [OT] Market Share Message-ID: <44ABFB20.8030207@howsoft.com> Richmond Mathewson wrote: > I know that the good folks at RR treat Linux as 'the third force' (and not very forceful at that); but it does seem a pity that RR for Linux lags behind (with some of its capabilities) RR for the 2 dominant commercial OS families. ----------------------------------- HEAR! HEAR! For example: 1) Implementing the specialFolderPath functions, as already available for Windows and Mac (with additions to cater for the varying Linux distros). 2) Giving us some means of discovering whether a floppy diskette drive exists in the hardware (since it cannot be done by the normal 'Windows' method). 3) Making the necessary changes so that we can use an altBrowser. 4) Providing a stable IDE (and who knows, fixing the engine so it works in Metacard). No doubt some colleagues who have paid for the privilege have some kind of secret ETA for the introduction of these crucial elements, but as a 3rd-world user with only 2 Studio licences, I haven't the faintest idea of an ETA. I'm sitting here twiddling my thumbs, and I am not enjoying myself. Bob From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Jul 5 13:52:49 2006 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:52:49 -0500 Subject: Finding in reverse In-Reply-To: <9A014ADB-DFE5-4745-B4FD-1C7362CC6A34@twft.com> Message-ID: On 7/5/06 10:55 AM, "Robert Sneidar" wrote: > Is there a way to scan a text string from end to beginning for > something without using a loop? I am trying to "be binary" (for those > of you conference goers) and I am trying to extract just a file's > name from the full path. It seems to be something of a difficult > thing to do in a one liner. How about this for a one-liner (that doesn't cheat ): put line -1 of replaceText(myFilePath,"/",CR) :-) Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From klaus at major-k.de Wed Jul 5 13:55:55 2006 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 19:55:55 +0200 Subject: Finding in reverse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7876F847-7413-45FE-8BFC-5C2E3CD0D667@major-k.de> Hi Ken, > On 7/5/06 10:55 AM, "Robert Sneidar" wrote: > >> Is there a way to scan a text string from end to beginning for >> something without using a loop? I am trying to "be binary" (for those >> of you conference goers) and I am trying to extract just a file's >> name from the full path. It seems to be something of a difficult >> thing to do in a one liner. > > How about this for a one-liner (that doesn't cheat ): > > put line -1 of replaceText(myFilePath,"/",CR) > > :-) HA! I KNEW you would pull some magic "regex"-stuff out of your sleeve :-) > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From bobs at twft.com Wed Jul 5 14:05:09 2006 From: bobs at twft.com (Robert Sneidar) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:05:09 -0700 Subject: Finding In Reverse In-Reply-To: <20060705150451.975898270C8@mail.runrev.com> References: <20060705150451.975898270C8@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: I feel so stupid. That works great! In fact I think I can write an AT () and RAT() function that mimicks Foxpro's using that. Of course I must now correct you to some degree, because properly I should first save the old delimiter, and afterwards restore it. That would be 4 lines. Still, your solution is elegant and truely "binary". :-) Bob Sneidar IT Manager Logos Management Calvary Chapel CM On Jul 5, 2006, at 8:04 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > Two lines: > > set the itemdelimiter to "/" > put the last item of myFilePath > > "Robert Sneidar" wrote in message > news:9A014ADB-DFE5-4745-B4FD-1C7362CC6A34 at twft.com... >> Is there a way to scan a text string from end to beginning for >> something >> without using a loop? I am trying to "be binary" (for those of you >> conference goers) and I am trying to extract just a file's name >> from the >> full path. It seems to be something of a difficult thing to do in >> a one >> liner. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jul 5 14:06:24 2006 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:06:24 -0700 Subject: how the internet works : the official explanation Message-ID: <1387049386.20060705110624@ahsoftware.net> For a hilarious explanation of how the internet works, check out: http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/?entry_id=1512499 "And again, the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Jul 5 14:19:55 2006 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:19:55 +0100 Subject: Finding in reverse In-Reply-To: <9A014ADB-DFE5-4745-B4FD-1C7362CC6A34@twft.com> References: <9A014ADB-DFE5-4745-B4FD-1C7362CC6A34@twft.com> Message-ID: <44AC02CB.8020401@cogapp.com> On 5/7/06 16:55, Robert Sneidar wrote: > What would have helped is if the offset function had some way to reverse > directions, like an arguement that made offset work end to beginning. > Foxpro has 2 functions that are similar, AT() and RAT(). The R is for > reverse obviously, and the number is for occurances not characters to > skip. Oh well. Maybe we need an roffset() function. :-) While Bob's specific need was in fact met by setting the item delimiter and using "last", I concur with his call for a general method for seeking in reverse. It's not that it's hard to code, but it would be trivial* to implement it directly in the engine, and that would be very much faster than the transcript version. There's a proposal in bugzilla for this: http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=584 Please consider tossing it some votes... *trivial: usual caveats apply Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Wed Jul 5 14:19:56 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:19:56 -0700 Subject: how the internet works : the official explanation In-Reply-To: <1387049386.20060705110624@ahsoftware.net> References: <1387049386.20060705110624@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: This is not funny; this is tragic. This is from the same thinking that created the 'record every click in the net ' concept. sqb >For a hilarious explanation of how the internet works, check out: > >http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/?entry_id=1512499 > >"And again, the internet is not something you just dump something on. >It's not a truck. > >It's a series of tubes." > >-- >-Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 14:22:19 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:22:19 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060705123558.200ef8b8@exchange.slg.com> References: <44ABE17C.1030104@fourthworld.com> <63CFBA81-94D3-41E6-8F0B-A169A65D771F@mac.com> <70ed6b130607050930h2a24100aub1dbc300493978d8@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20060705123558.200ef8b8@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607051122xa0396b8gaf7df1d19b7acae4@mail.gmail.com> Too late. "The Complete Book of AJAX: Or How I Learned to Love Pigeons Despite Their Poop" coming soon to a bookstore near you. :-D Dan On 7/5/06, Peter T. Evensen wrote: > > Quick, Andre, before Dan uses it in a book! > > At 11:30 AM 7/5/2006, you wrote: > >Your recent comparison of this technology to smart pigeons replacing > bloated > >airline freight hauling was, by the way, brillilantly on target. I'm > going > >to steal it in talking with clients. Maybe you should have copyrighted > it! > >LOL > > > > Peter T. Evensen > http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com > 314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jul 5 14:59:20 2006 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:59:20 -0700 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607051122xa0396b8gaf7df1d19b7acae4@mail.gmail.com> References: <44ABE17C.1030104@fourthworld.com> <63CFBA81-94D3-41E6-8F0B-A169A65D771F@mac.com> <70ed6b130607050930h2a24100aub1dbc300493978d8@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20060705123558.200ef8b8@exchange.slg.com> <70ed6b130607051122xa0396b8gaf7df1d19b7acae4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9910226544.20060705115920@ahsoftware.net> Dan- Wednesday, July 5, 2006, 11:22:19 AM, you wrote: > Too late. > "The Complete Book of AJAX: Or How I Learned to Love Pigeons Despite Their > Poop" coming soon to a bookstore near you. The Straight Poop On Ajax -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 15:04:23 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 12:04:23 -0700 Subject: Possible new book titles In-Reply-To: <537.2b6536b.31dd4c9c@aol.com> References: <537.2b6536b.31dd4c9c@aol.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607051204w1e9a15e3x1fd41b7c252685fa@mail.gmail.com> I agree, Stephen. I've actually started that project. But my concern is that forthcoming changes in the IDE may render a lot of what I'd write obsolete before I'd sold enough copies to recoup my cost. SO that's on the list, but not near term. On 7/5/06, Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote: > > Dan, > One thing I think is needed is a thorough explanation of all the > checkboxes > and fields in the various property inspectors. I've been using > Revolution for > two years now and am still unsure about the uses of a number of items in > the > Property Inspectors, which do not appear to be well-documented in the user > guide. It think such explanation should make it easier for new users to > get > into Revolution and also give more experienced users added abilities. > Steve Goldberg > > In a message dated 7/4/06 2:25:46 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: > > > > OK, I'm trying to figure out the best next subject on which to produce a > > SmartEBook eBooklet. The following topics remain on my list and are > > candidates based on the relatively small likelihood that fundamental > changes > > in Rev will obsolete them in the next year. I'd be interested in votes, > > feedback, other suggestions, etc. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From viktoras at ekoinf.net Wed Jul 5 15:23:55 2006 From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (Viktoras Didziulis) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:23:55 +0300 (FLE Standard Time) Subject: [OT] Market Share References: <20060705074041.65878.qmail@web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44AC11C7.000001.02808@MAZYTIS> And that's why some of us are not so eager to upgrade from Rev Studio 2.6.1 which is the last version capable to produce standalones for all the main OSes including Linux. From my personal experience there are more Linux users than those of MacOS at least in research & development sector in Europe. And many use dual boot Linux/Windows systems, not to say that in a distributed computing sector Linux rules. In my area I still was not able to find anyone with MacOS to test some apps (so I will need to buy one Apple, but maybe later as it is so expensive...). Actually the Windows/Linux/MacOS share in European Universities, Institutes and research companies is something like 100x10x1. So that's what our students are used to... Viktoras -------Original Message------- From: Richmond Mathewson Date: 07/05/06 10:40:57 To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: [OT] Market Share Interesting Discussion . . . As a longtime, mainly irrational, fan of Apple computers (to a large extent based on the belief that Microsoft OS's are inferior) I have had the opportunity for the last year or so to work with a number of 'old' PCs running Ubuntu Linux. This Debian variant has allowed me to set up a teaching operation using old Pentium 3s at minimal cost - and has cut maintenance time to almost zero. I have "gone funny" and am now running Ubuntu 6.06 on the second partition of my early model (PPC) Mac-Mini. What I really enjoy about Ubuntu Linux (and, even more about XUBUNTU - the Ubuntu variant that sports the XFCE desktop) is: 1. The interface is extremely consistent.[Mac OS X.4 is "all over the place" and Windows XP looks like my Grandmother dressed up in teenage clothes (sorry Granny)]. 2. When something crashes (and that is rare) it does not lock up the whole machine and demand 20 minutes while the whole shebang is restarted and its ego is massaged. As of now, I can honestly say that I am not really anti either Microsoft or Apple - but hope that the developing desktop Linuxes will serve to stimulate both the commercial companies to sort a lot of things out. And, while I am here and on topic . . . I know that the good folks at RR treat Linux as 'the third force' (and not very forceful at that); but it does seem a pity that RR for Linux lags behind (with some of its capabilities) RR for the 2 dominant commercial OS families. sincerely, Richmond Mathewson ____________________________________________________________ "Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the fluidity of meanings users attach to words and phrases." Mathewson, 2006 ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 15:28:30 2006 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:28:30 -0700 Subject: Finding In Reverse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/5/06 11:05 AM, "Robert Sneidar" wrote: > Of course I > must now correct you to some degree, because properly I should first > save the old delimiter, and afterwards restore it. If you call a function, there is no need to remember the old delim on processString put item 1 of "cat,dog,mouse,cow" into animal put lastItem("first/second/third/fourth") into ending put item 2 of "cat,dog,mouse,cow" after animal put animal & cr & ending into msg end processString function lastItem str set the itemDel to "/" --this applies only to this scope --which means it is 'forgotten' when this handler finishes return item -1 of str end lastItem Jim Ault Las Vegas From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Jul 5 15:37:18 2006 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:37:18 +0100 Subject: Possible new book titles In-Reply-To: <537.2b6536b.31dd4c9c@aol.com> References: <537.2b6536b.31dd4c9c@aol.com> Message-ID: <44AC14EE.7060909@cogapp.com> On 5/7/06 18:10, Steve Goldberg wrote: > One thing I think is needed is a thorough explanation of all the checkboxes > and fields in the various property inspectors. I've been using Revolution for > two years now and am still unsure about the uses of a number of items in the > Property Inspectors, which do not appear to be well-documented in the user > guide. Steve, (you may have already clocked this but in case not) it's worth noting that virtually every control in the property inspectors directly targets a particularly property of the object, and that these properties are in general documented. But - they're not necessarily documented under the names that they have in the property inspector. Here comes the tip: if you float your mouse over the control in the PI, the tool-tip displayed is the actual property name which you can then lookup in the documentation. There's also a preference which reverses this: it makes the PI use the actual property name for each checkbox (etc), and puts the more verbose label into the tool-tip. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From geradamas at yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 15:40:51 2006 From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 12:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Linux on PPC and RR Message-ID: <20060705194051.75576.qmail@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As most list users by now will know: I run a micro-school in Bulgaria with 3 Pentium 3s running Ubuntu Linux 5.10. I program all my 'stuff' for the children I teach English to on a number of G4 Macs I have using both my Dreamcard 2.6.1 and my RR Media 2.7.2 - I then run the end results on the Ubuntu Boxes using stack runner for the ones that use sound and standalones generated via the Novell Free version of RR (2.2.1). Now on my G4 Mirror door, dual-processor I have 4 hard-disks and the smallest HD has Kubuntu PPC (now at 6.06) so that I can test out Linuxy things without having to crank up one of the PCs over at the school. Now, for some daft reason, I thought I would pop RR for Linux 2.2.1 on the G4 - and, it, did, not, work (and, the, commas, signal, something, which, is, probably, better, not, put, into, words). Does this mean that: Runtime Revolution for Linux only works on Intel machines? As I am gently moving away from all forms of commercial software towards OpenSource (on my income in Bulgaria, I have a straight choice: do what most Bulgarians do: i.e. live in a totally Pirate, totally Windows world - not good, and potentially a bit risky when the country manages to sneak into the European Community - or use Free software), the only software I am likely to pay for in the future is Runtime Revolution. But my Macs (despite their not being the most modern) will be good and servicable for many years to come (believe me, I still use a BBC Master to teach PASCAL and BASIC) - especially if they become dual-system with both Mac OS and a form of PPC Linux. Please don't tell me I am the only person running Linux on a PPC; because I am not! Having got comfortable with Linux on PPCs I am tempted when I can scrape the odd bawbee together to invest in one of the new 4 processor PPCs that are coming onto the market (without grey apples on their cases). Now, if RR can run up a Universal Binary of their product, it should not be that difficult to adapt their UNIX (i.e. Mac OS X) version fo RR for Linux on PPC. OK, OK, lone wolves, and Richmond always being a pain in the microchips - but somebody has to be! sincerely, Richmond Mathewson PS. By the way . . . has anybody else discoverd "GIMPSHOP" ? its GIMP "tarted up" for those of us who got used to Photoshop but can no longer stump up the money - its really very good indeed! ____________________________________________________________ "Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the fluidity of meanings users attach to words and phrases." Mathewson, 2006 ____________________________________________________________ From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jul 5 15:58:53 2006 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 12:58:53 -0700 Subject: Finding in reverse In-Reply-To: <44AC02CB.8020401@cogapp.com> References: <9A014ADB-DFE5-4745-B4FD-1C7362CC6A34@twft.com> <44AC02CB.8020401@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <11913799552.20060705125853@ahsoftware.net> Ben- Wednesday, July 5, 2006, 11:19:55 AM, you wrote: > There's a proposal in bugzilla for this: > http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=584 That one's been in there for quite a while - the last entry was November of 2004. I'm curious about what Mark W. meant by "Re-assigning to engine team for future re-assignment" -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jul 5 16:14:06 2006 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:14:06 -0700 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: <44ABFB20.8030207@howsoft.com> References: <44ABFB20.8030207@howsoft.com> Message-ID: <6414712205.20060705131406@ahsoftware.net> Bob- Wednesday, July 5, 2006, 10:47:12 AM, you wrote: > 2) Giving us some means of discovering whether a floppy diskette drive > exists in the hardware (since it cannot be done by the normal 'Windows' > method). How about looking at the /etc/fstab file and checking for the presence of a /dev/fd0 entry? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Wed Jul 5 16:26:30 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 13:26:30 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <44AC2076.6060709@paraboliclogic.com> GregSmith wrote: [snip] > To tell you the truth, after several days of probing, I'm not so sure about > Revolution being that simple to get a grasp on. I really want it to be so, [snip] There's not a whole lot out there that can match what Rev offers. The thing is, Rev is not just a single minded specific tool such as KeyNote. Rev is multipurpose tool which can cover a lot of territory that other tools of this nature can't even come close to. While it may not seem as simple as one thinks it should be, but that's because it's a much larger tool, with which, is not going to be as simple as single purpose tool like KeyNote. There are literally hundreds of thousands of things you can do with Rev that KeyNote is just not capable of doing, and never will be capable of doing. Really, if you're just looking for a narrow single purpose tool, then Rev is not it. But if you want flexibility and something that gives you a much broader ability, then Rev is it. You have to decide what the scope of your project is, then decide which tool will best fit you and the project at hand. If you don't need Rev, then don't get Rev. If KeyNote will do what you need, then use KeyNote. -Garrett From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Wed Jul 5 16:39:09 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 13:39:09 -0700 Subject: Linux on PPC and RR In-Reply-To: <20060705194051.75576.qmail@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060705194051.75576.qmail@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44AC236D.2030209@paraboliclogic.com> Richmond Mathewson wrote: [snip] > > Now, for some daft reason, I thought I would pop RR for Linux 2.2.1 on the G4 > - and, it, did, not, work (and, the, commas, signal, something, which, is, > probably, better, not, put, into, words). > > Does this mean that: > > Runtime Revolution for Linux only works on Intel machines? I believe so, as I tried running Rev itself and Rev produced exectuables on Ubuntu PPC also. I was hoping that it would work, but doubted it would since x86 linux apps and PPC Linux apps are not compatible at all. IMO though, PPC is probably nearing an end on the desktop computer market. With Apple even dumping it, there's not a whole lot left out there for the PPC except for specialty markets such as handhelds and such. PPC boxes will soon be a thing of the past, like 8086's and 8088's, 286's and 386's. > As I am gently moving away from all forms of commercial software towards OpenSource > (on my income in Bulgaria, I have a straight choice: do what most Bulgarians do: > i.e. live in a totally Pirate, totally Windows world - not good, and potentially a bit risky > when the country manages to sneak into the European Community - or use Free software), > the only software I am likely to pay for in the future is Runtime Revolution. But my Macs > (despite their not being the most modern) will be good and servicable for many years to come > (believe me, I still use a BBC Master to teach PASCAL and BASIC) - especially if they > become dual-system with both Mac OS and a form of PPC Linux. > > Please don't tell me I am the only person running Linux on a PPC; because I am not! No, you're not. I dual boot my PPC MacMini here with Ubuntu. Why? Ummm, just because I guess. I had no legit reason, just wanted to see if could be done. Running Rev off of it was just another thrill seeking quest. :-) [snip] > PS. By the way . . . has anybody else discoverd "GIMPSHOP" ? its GIMP "tarted up" for those of > us who got used to Photoshop but can no longer stump up the money - its really very good indeed! Straight up 100% pure Gimp for me. For me I need the consistent setup for whatever OS I am working on. So I have Gimp on Windows, Linux and OS X. The last thing my feeble mind needs is complication and confusion. -Garrett From smith.sgt at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 17:07:58 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 17:07:58 -0400 Subject: questions for altBrowser users In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry to reply to myself, but if anyone knows where any of these two things are possible, please let me know. I don't really care if they're not - I just want to make sure I'm not missing out on something. On 7/4/06, Jared Smith wrote: > > Have any of you had any luck getting shortcuts like Ctrl-c (or > Apple-c) to work within the browser view? > > Also, is it possible to use the XBrowser_Get "selected" command to > mimic the "Find" command in most browsers? I've only gotten it to find > the very first instance of the word. > > Thank you. > From smith.sgt at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 17:15:58 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 17:15:58 -0400 Subject: how the internet works : the official explanation In-Reply-To: References: <1387049386.20060705110624@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: You should probably take his age into account. My dad is younger than Ted Stevens and he knows even less about the internet. I recently set up an old Windows 98 computer for him to play his casino games. All he knows is casino games and MSN hotmail - and if the Internet Explorer homepage shows anything besides MSN, he gets in a fit! So I hesitate to make fun of this guy. On 7/5/06, Stephen Barncard wrote: > > This is not funny; this is tragic. > > This is from the same thinking that created the 'record every click > in the net ' concept. > > sqb > > > >For a hilarious explanation of how the internet works, check out: > > > >http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/?entry_id=1512499 > > > >"And again, the internet is not something you just dump something on. > >It's not a truck. > > > >It's a series of tubes." > > > >-- > >-Mark Wieder > > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > -- > stephen barncard > s a n f r a n c i s c o > - - - - - - - - - - - - > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mb.ur at harbourhosting.co.uk Wed Jul 5 17:44:36 2006 From: mb.ur at harbourhosting.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 22:44:36 +0100 Subject: Linux on PPC and RR In-Reply-To: <44AC236D.2030209@paraboliclogic.com> References: <20060705194051.75576.qmail@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44AC236D.2030209@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: <44AC32C4.4010704@harbourhosting.co.uk> Garrett Hylltun wrote: > Richmond Mathewson wrote: > [snip] >> Does this mean that: >> >> Runtime Revolution for Linux only works on Intel machines? > Yes. Some years back there was a PPC version of RR for linux, but it was dropped, around about version 2, I think, due to tiny demand. I remember because that was shortly after I installed PPC linux on my Mac in order to try it out. >> PS. By the way . . . has anybody else discoverd "GIMPSHOP" ? its GIMP >> "tarted up" for those of >> us who got used to Photoshop but can no longer stump up the money - >> its really very good indeed! > Promising. And not too bad on OSX where it originates, but the Windows port was somewhat buggy when I ran it on XP here. If nothing else it allows old Photoshoppers such as I a chance at a comparative evaluation without years of study. Looking at GimpShop I quickly came to the conclusion that Photoshop features I use all the time don't appear to have an equivalent. Which was disappointing. Course I may not have looked hard enough - I have to do some work occasionally, ain't life cruel? But I'm keeping an eye on the Gimp. > Straight up 100% pure Gimp for me. For me I need the consistent setup > for whatever OS I am working on. So I have Gimp on Windows, Linux and > OS X. The last thing my feeble mind needs is complication and confusion. > > > -Garrett From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Wed Jul 5 18:18:58 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:18:58 -0700 Subject: how the internet works : the official explanation In-Reply-To: References: <1387049386.20060705110624@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Boy I have no reservations. If this idiot actually tries to pass laws about something for me, at least he should do some research, and not base his ideas on his own lame experience. Internet stuff is not rocket science to understand - and these guys are also behind the funding ALL technical spending by the government. They had better get up to speed or stand aside for the new generation of politicians who really do understand. sqb >You should probably take his age into account. My dad is younger than Ted >Stevens and he knows even less about the internet. I recently set up an old >Windows 98 computer for him to play his casino games. All he knows is casino >games and MSN hotmail - and if the Internet Explorer homepage shows anything >besides MSN, he gets in a fit! > >So I hesitate to make fun of this guy. -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From smith.sgt at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 18:29:20 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 18:29:20 -0400 Subject: how the internet works : the official explanation In-Reply-To: References: <1387049386.20060705110624@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: That's true, they should leave this to senators who understand it, but with age comes seniority :-) I don't think it's really possible for him to get "up to speed" though, and not because he's an idiot. He isn't - nobody who reaches that level of political success is an idiot (whether you agree with his politics or not). Even my dad, the guy who does nothing online but read email, served 37 years in the Navy - not an idiot, just from a different world. On 7/5/06, Stephen Barncard wrote: > > Boy I have no reservations. If this idiot actually tries to pass laws > about something for me, at least he should do some research, and not > base his ideas on his own lame experience. > > Internet stuff is not rocket science to understand - and these guys > are also behind the funding ALL technical spending by the government. > They had better get up to speed or stand aside for the new generation > of politicians who really do understand. > > sqb > > >You should probably take his age into account. My dad is younger than Ted > >Stevens and he knows even less about the internet. I recently set up an > old > >Windows 98 computer for him to play his casino games. All he knows is > casino > >games and MSN hotmail - and if the Internet Explorer homepage shows > anything > >besides MSN, he gets in a fit! > > > >So I hesitate to make fun of this guy. > > -- > stephen barncard > s a n f r a n c i s c o > - - - - - - - - - - - - > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From briany at qldlearning.com Wed Jul 5 18:35:42 2006 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:35:42 -0700 Subject: how the internet works : the official explanation In-Reply-To: References: <1387049386.20060705110624@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <801b105632e3a7943da7a7e3ea4646d6@qldlearning.com> This guy certainly have some laughable sound bites, but is his understanding of the issues really THAT bad? I know it's funny for him to say that "the internet" took days to get to him, or that it's a bunch of tubes, however... the fact is that widespread VOIP and streaming video _does_ threaten to slow down everyone's internet experience by using enormous amounts of bandwidth. He'd sound a lot better if he used the words "bandwidth" and "email and didn't have a lame personal example, but then again the vast number of people out there simply believe that bandwidth is some sort of unlimited resource. I enjoy a good laugh at clueless politicians, and this guy certainly set himself up, but his conclusions probably didn't come from his lost e-mail. More likely someone actually explained the issues to him and he just stinks at speaking about it. Beats the heck out of a smooth talking politician screwing the little guy - at least he's looking out for the consumer in all of this. > Boy I have no reservations. If this idiot actually tries to pass laws > about something for me, at least he should do some research, and not > base his ideas on his own lame experience. > > Internet stuff is not rocket science to understand - and these guys > are also behind the funding ALL technical spending by the government. > They had better get up to speed or stand aside for the new generation > of politicians who really do understand. > > sqb > >> You should probably take his age into account. My dad is younger than >> Ted >> Stevens and he knows even less about the internet. I recently set up >> an old >> Windows 98 computer for him to play his casino games. All he knows is >> casino >> games and MSN hotmail - and if the Internet Explorer homepage shows >> anything >> besides MSN, he gets in a fit! >> >> So I hesitate to make fun of this guy. > > -- > stephen barncard > s a n f r a n c i s c o > - - - - - - - - - - - - > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From brucegregory at earthlink.net Wed Jul 5 18:45:12 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> Dan & Malte: O.K., you asked for it. First, though, let me explain my own personal dilemma. I would have to agree with many of you out there, that there are limitations that come bundled with whatever single use tool you commit yourself to. None ever provides everything you wish they did. Though a product like Keynote does many of the things I need, it doesn't do them all and leaves me wishing and waiting for a time when it might. Or might not. User requests for new features only go so far. And moving a megaladon like Apple could prove to be next to impossible. So, you're right. Revolutioon offers an environment that seems very appealing from that point of view, alone. Make something that does precisely what you want it to do, the way you want it to do it. Expand such a creation at any point in the future. It does, indeed, seem limitless with regard to creative possibilities. So, yes, I'm sold on that aspect of the Revolution offering. But, English-like, or not, I just don't take to programming like ducks do to water. The very nature of performing all the teeny tiny little steps that you must perform to get even the most basic things done is an exercise in patience that may go beyond my capability to endure. I wish it were not so. I wish I were smarter and had the patience of Yoda. Maybe, someday I'll attain to it, but, today, I lack. And, yet, still, I am not averse to trying. I may. But, what, with regard to the available teachers and tutors? Nearly all have been programming so long, that they forget how little the non-programmer understands. You guys and gals out here all speak with the same insider lingo. You don't even know you are doing it, the terminology is so rooted and engraved upon your psyche. You speak in abbreviations and acronyms as often and as unconsciously as the turtledove sings her song. It saves time. And I can understand why you need to save time, observing how long it takes to author applications in any language. If you want US to learn you must have mercy. Don't assume anything, with regard to our background or computer saviness. We are, with respect to the deep waters of programming, essentially morons. But, even morons deserve some kindness and tenderness and longsuffering. Do YOU have that? Understanding some of the phraseology of Transcript still doesn't equip a potential Revolution author with a general framework of how to proceed in any particular direction. What if the application he envisions is not composed of standard application functionality, such as windows, pop-ups, roll-overs, drop down menus, fields dialogs and the like? What if his dream application is composed of visual elements that both need to look and behave like something much different than the above mentioned items? What if his imagined application contains functionality and visual appeal that combine the aesthetics, logic and interaction of a game, a database, a shopping system and a lego set? How would this aspiring programmer even determine if such an ambitious project were within his practical set of abilities? How can he know? Where would he begin, and most of all, where would he find the set of documents that would serve as his knowledgebase for his particular, specialized set of functions and goals. It appears one would have to be operating at the genius level and beyond to cobble together such a system from the vast library of GENERIC transcript actions and functions that are listed and available. Like all programming API's, the Transcript listing is mainly a set of instructions telling the user, "what" each function is, (all in that wonderful programmer's lingo), only sometimes "what" it does, and almost never "why" it does what it does and "when" you would need to use it and for what you would want to use it. All of this leaves the novice still flailing in the dark, not knowing where to turn next. So, inevitably, he will have to post something like "Stupid newbee question" on a forum like this one, irritating the heck out of you experts out there. See, this is where everyone that approaches an application like Revolution will eventually end up. I have had this very same discussion over at the Unity forums, where one must master the foggy, poorly documented, illogical language called JavaScript, (script, my eye!), to make even the simplest, game-like behaviors occur. And the experts can't help but think to themselves, "what a moron," whenever I open my mouth with uninsightful questions. Programming to them, at least at the time they read my ignorant questionings, has become somewhat second nature, and they can't understand why it is so hard to understand. . . . Know-wuddi-mean? Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5190992 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From bvg at mac.com Wed Jul 5 18:57:15 2006 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:57:15 +0200 Subject: questions for altBrowser users In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Why don't you ask the developer of altBrowser these questions? I am sure they're ready to answer them... http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altBrowserCover/default.htm On Jul 05 2006, at 23:07, Jared Smith wrote: > Sorry to reply to myself, but if anyone knows where any of these two > things > are possible, please let me know. I don't really care if they're not - > I > just want to make sure I'm not missing out on something. > > On 7/4/06, Jared Smith wrote: >> >> Have any of you had any luck getting shortcuts like Ctrl-c (or >> Apple-c) to work within the browser view? >> >> Also, is it possible to use the XBrowser_Get "selected" command to >> mimic the "Find" command in most browsers? I've only gotten it to find >> the very first instance of the word. >> >> Thank you. -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.bjoernke.com Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jul 5 19:07:10 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 18:07:10 -0500 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607051607x2b822e5cucd109be3335eaa1@mail.gmail.com> Greg, Turns out you'll have to learn a little rocket science if you want to fly to the moon. That said, not everyone is suited to be a rocket scientist. That's the first question you'll have to ask yourself. "Do I want to program?" If the answer is "YES" you might want to check out: "5 Tips For a Beginning Programmer" http://erraticwisdom.com/2006/07/04/5-tips-for-a-beginning-programmer Then, consider purchasing Dan Shafer's book, and other materials, including the fine online tutorials at Rev. I typically like to read the documentation first (I know, I'm backwards) before jumping in. It seems to save me some of the frustration. The best way to learn (IMO) is to know someone who is already proficient and have them available for help and instruction. Lastly, NEWBIES on this list don't frustrate old timers, if they're really interested in learning and not just complaining. We're all newbies at one time or another and many of us are eager to help. best, Chipp From smith.sgt at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 19:18:17 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 19:18:17 -0400 Subject: questions for altBrowser users In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yup, they did. The shortcuts don't work from within Rev - only in standalone mode (just in case anyone was wondering). On 7/5/06, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > > Why don't you ask the developer of altBrowser these questions? I am > sure they're ready to answer them... > > http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altBrowserCover/default.htm > > > > > On Jul 05 2006, at 23:07, Jared Smith wrote: > > > Sorry to reply to myself, but if anyone knows where any of these two > > things > > are possible, please let me know. I don't really care if they're not - > > I > > just want to make sure I'm not missing out on something. > > > > On 7/4/06, Jared Smith wrote: > >> > >> Have any of you had any luck getting shortcuts like Ctrl-c (or > >> Apple-c) to work within the browser view? > >> > >> Also, is it possible to use the XBrowser_Get "selected" command to > >> mimic the "Find" command in most browsers? I've only gotten it to find > >> the very first instance of the word. > >> > >> Thank you. > > > -- > > official ChatRev page: > http://chatrev.bjoernke.com > > Chat with other RunRev developers: > go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From bvg at mac.com Wed Jul 5 19:19:18 2006 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 01:19:18 +0200 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <79dd7027ad0dd4ccf8409551ec6732c3@mac.com> On Jul 06 2006, at 00:45, GregSmith wrote: > I have had this very same discussion over at the Unity forums, where > one > must master the foggy, poorly documented, illogical language called > JavaScript, (script, my eye!), to make even the simplest, game-like > behaviors occur. And the experts can't help but think to themselves, > "what > a moron," whenever I open my mouth with uninsightful questions. > Programming > to them, at least at the time they read my ignorant questionings, has > become > somewhat second nature, and they can't understand why it is so hard to > understand. . . . Know-wuddi-mean? HAHA comparing the geeks at the Unity forum to the use list of RunRev isn't fair.. for the Unity guys! They are prone to point at the documentation, not answering your questions and behaving snobbish. Been there, experienced that. You however have been asked to specify one question, namely about what you want to do, and so far you haven't, as far as i can tell. Maybe you should re-evaluate your plans, make a clear path for _yourself_ and then come back here with it. On the other hand maybe you have a plan, but hesitated to specify it? Or maybe you're afraid we laugh and point at you, which surely no one will (at least not on the use list). Maybe you're just too frustrated at the moment, and need to take a long walk, these help when I'm frustrated. So my tips would be: 1. Don't ask the Unity guys for help. 2. Make clear for yourself what you want. 3. If frustrated, take a long walk. -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.bjoernke.com Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jul 5 19:23:49 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 18:23:49 -0500 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <9910226544.20060705115920@ahsoftware.net> References: <44ABE17C.1030104@fourthworld.com> <63CFBA81-94D3-41E6-8F0B-A169A65D771F@mac.com> <70ed6b130607050930h2a24100aub1dbc300493978d8@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20060705123558.200ef8b8@exchange.slg.com> <70ed6b130607051122xa0396b8gaf7df1d19b7acae4@mail.gmail.com> <9910226544.20060705115920@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607051623lae7ce47ta76f0320b5bd6edc@mail.gmail.com> Dan and Mark, Please feather back your comments. Most eagle-eyed lurkers will note that this thread originated from an honest birds-eye view discussing alternatives to nesting a version of Rev within a browser. It's obviously now devolved into a flock of silly sophmoric orinthology references. Well, as they say: Birds of a feather... From wjm at wjm.org Wed Jul 5 19:40:51 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 19:40:51 -0400 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com><7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: Hi Greg, You're right... but, the truth is I don't know of an easier programming language (or I'd probably be using it). It seems there is an inescapable continuum between "ease of use" and "power" -- to use two inexact terms -- when it comes to computers. You can have an "appliance" that you just turn on and it "works" or you can have the hobby kit that you have to build from transistors, wire, and knobs on up. But it's rare that you can find both. *Some* of the things you want are out there. A good example is progress bars. In the "olde days" of HyperCard we had to build them ourselves. In Revolution, there are built-in progress bars that mimic the operating system's standard look and feel. And recently, Scott Rossi introduced a package of really fancy "photo-realistic" progress bars that look like nothing ordinary. Now, you don't need to know everything there is to know about transcript in order to use Rossi's gizmos. But it helps if you want to customize them. Another good thing about Rev is that you can just do a few things at a time. You don't have to learn the whole thing at once. But yes... if you want to write a complete video game or alternative user interface you'll need to gain knowledge and experience. The good news: It's definitely possible to create those things using Revolution. I have three super-thick (500+ pages) books on JavaScript. None of them make that language any easier, but at least I can find lots of examples and explanations. There aren't so many books about Revolution, but there are many good example stacks and resources. I think you'll find that mastering programming is an endeavor that will help discipline your thinking in other areas of life. Programming works from the general to the specific. You take the vision in your head, translate it to processes and presentation, then break those down into component procedures. You analyze the procedures for things that can generalized and re-used. You optimize for speed and resource usage. You test and debug and correct your algorithms. No matter what the language, the skills needed for structuring and building a solution are the same. Anyway, I do think there are things Rev could do -- little things that would make a big difference (and perhaps some big things than might not make any difference)... but in general it's the best blend of power and ease of use out there. I hope you'll persevere through the rough beginnings. The more you know the easier it is to understand. "GregSmith" wrote in message news:5190992.post at talk.nabble.com... > > Dan & Malte: > > O.K., you asked for it. First, though, let me explain my own personal > dilemma. I would have to agree with many of you out there, that there are > limitations that come bundled with whatever single use tool you commit > yourself to. None ever provides everything you wish they did. Though a > product like Keynote does many of the things I need, it doesn't do them > all > and leaves me wishing and waiting for a time when it might. Or might not. > User requests for new features only go so far. And moving a megaladon > like > Apple could prove to be next to impossible. > > So, you're right. Revolutioon offers an environment that seems very > appealing from that point of view, alone. Make something that does > precisely what you want it to do, the way you want it to do it. Expand > such > a creation at any point in the future. It does, indeed, seem limitless > with > regard to creative possibilities. So, yes, I'm sold on that aspect of the > Revolution offering. > > But, English-like, or not, I just don't take to programming like ducks do > to > water. The very nature of performing all the teeny tiny little steps that > you must perform to get even the most basic things done is an exercise in > patience that may go beyond my capability to endure. I wish it were not > so. > I wish I were smarter and had the patience of Yoda. Maybe, someday I'll > attain to it, but, today, I lack. > > And, yet, still, I am not averse to trying. I may. But, what, with > regard > to the available teachers and tutors? Nearly all have been programming so > long, that they forget how little the non-programmer understands. You > guys > and gals out here all speak with the same insider lingo. You don't even > know you are doing it, the terminology is so rooted and engraved upon your > psyche. You speak in abbreviations and acronyms as often and as > unconsciously as the turtledove sings her song. It saves time. And I can > understand why you need to save time, observing how long it takes to > author > applications in any language. If you want US to learn you must have > mercy. > Don't assume anything, with regard to our background or computer saviness. > We are, with respect to the deep waters of programming, essentially > morons. > But, even morons deserve some kindness and tenderness and longsuffering. > Do > YOU have that? > > Understanding some of the phraseology of Transcript still doesn't equip a > potential Revolution author with a general framework of how to proceed in > any particular direction. What if the application he envisions is not > composed of standard application functionality, such as windows, pop-ups, > roll-overs, drop down menus, fields dialogs and the like? What if his > dream > application is composed of visual elements that both need to look and > behave > like something much different than the above mentioned items? What if his > imagined application contains functionality and visual appeal that combine > the aesthetics, logic and interaction of a game, a database, a shopping > system and a lego set? How would this aspiring programmer even determine > if > such an ambitious project were within his practical set of abilities? How > can he know? Where would he begin, and most of all, where would he find > the set of documents that would serve as his knowledgebase for his > particular, specialized set of functions and goals. It appears one would > have to be operating at the genius level and beyond to cobble together > such > a system from the vast library of GENERIC transcript actions and functions > that are listed and available. > > Like all programming API's, the Transcript listing is mainly a set of > instructions telling the user, "what" each function is, (all in that > wonderful programmer's lingo), only sometimes "what" it does, and almost > never "why" it does what it does and "when" you would need to use it and > for > what you would want to use it. All of this leaves the novice still > flailing > in the dark, not knowing where to turn next. So, inevitably, he will have > to post something like "Stupid newbee question" on a forum like this one, > irritating the heck out of you experts out there. See, this is where > everyone that approaches an application like Revolution will eventually > end > up. > > I have had this very same discussion over at the Unity forums, where one > must master the foggy, poorly documented, illogical language called > JavaScript, (script, my eye!), to make even the simplest, game-like > behaviors occur. And the experts can't help but think to themselves, > "what > a moron," whenever I open my mouth with uninsightful questions. > Programming > to them, at least at the time they read my ignorant questionings, has > become > somewhat second nature, and they can't understand why it is so hard to > understand. . . . Know-wuddi-mean? > > Greg Smith > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5190992 > Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Jul 5 19:40:41 2006 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:40:41 -0500 Subject: Finding in reverse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/5/06 12:25 PM, "Jim Ault" wrote: > and then back to 2 lines for one more feature... >> set the itemdelimiter to "/"; put last item of myFilePath into myFilename >> set the itemdelimiter to "."; put last item of myFilename into myExtension and back to 1 line with regex: get matchText(myFilePath,".*\/(.*?\.(.*))$",myFileName,myExtension) :-) Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Wed Jul 5 19:47:39 2006 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:47:39 -0400 Subject: Can't enter anything with the keyboard In-Reply-To: <444C1515.2000705@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I have a new bug or error which makes it so I can't type in any field including the property inspector or the message box after I print a card to my HP laserjet 1320. In order to get out of the locked effect I either have to close and restart runrev or sometimes close just one of the stacks I'm working on. Has anyone seen this? When you try to enter text anywhere even control m to bring up the message box (you can use the mouse and the menus) it will beep. There is no error window or palettes open. From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Wed Jul 5 20:07:21 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 17:07:21 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> GregSmith wrote: > Dan & Malte: > > O.K., you asked for it. First, though, let me explain my own personal > dilemma. I would have to agree with many of you out there, that there are > limitations that come bundled with whatever single use tool you commit > yourself to. None ever provides everything you wish they did. Though a > product like Keynote does many of the things I need, it doesn't do them all > and leaves me wishing and waiting for a time when it might. Or might not. > User requests for new features only go so far. And moving a megaladon like > Apple could prove to be next to impossible. > > So, you're right. Revolutioon offers an environment that seems very > appealing from that point of view, alone. Make something that does > precisely what you want it to do, the way you want it to do it. Expand such > a creation at any point in the future. It does, indeed, seem limitless with > regard to creative possibilities. So, yes, I'm sold on that aspect of the > Revolution offering. > > But, English-like, or not, I just don't take to programming like ducks do to > water. The very nature of performing all the teeny tiny little steps that > you must perform to get even the most basic things done is an exercise in > patience that may go beyond my capability to endure. I wish it were not so. > I wish I were smarter and had the patience of Yoda. Maybe, someday I'll > attain to it, but, today, I lack. I forgot to mention one more thing in my reply. I understand what you are saying with regards to being able to understand the syntax used in Rev. Upon first look it really seems intimidating to anyone, not just a newbie. At first, I was totally lost with Rev, and I'm not a newbie either, as I've been programming in one form or another of basic or other exotic scripting language since 1996. But! It's one of those things that after you spend a few weeks to maybe a month, it all of a sudden hits you like a brick in the forehead... BAM! "Oh Yeah... I get it now!" It's not an instantaneous effect. And it won't take years to comprehend, or years to become capable for someone to use. It's merely a matter of weeks or months, and I'd even say a newbie would be able to catch on within months. I even suffer from A.D.D., and was totally lost at first, even working the IDE was causing me some frustration, but then one day... BAM! And now it's like taking the dog for a walk. Transcript does become as logical as the English language... Errr, not that the English language is really logical, but you know what I mean. It's not exactly like speaking English, but it's as close as I think you can come to such an attempt. I'd say ride it out a little bit longer. Grab some of the simple examples and just keep looking at the source code. Lookup the commands and functions you see in the source codes to see what they are doing. Then maybe take a chance and make a few changes in that example. Check out some of the tutorials available. Try it for 30 days, and if you're not fully capable of understanding Rev, we'll give you back your life! Ok, we won't give you anything back, but at least you'll have tried. -Garrett From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Jul 5 21:37:18 2006 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:37:18 -0700 Subject: Reset Locals? Message-ID: OK, script local variables are persistent now in 2.7.x. In the readme, if I read it correctly, it appears one must do the following to reset the local values: set the script of to tNewScript Is this correct? Do we really need to set the script to itself (or another script) to reset the variables? The above works here, but this process seems to be, well, unusual. I would think I would be able to somehow access the local variables via script and reset them. Please let me know if I'm missing something. Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From soapdog at mac.com Wed Jul 5 21:55:24 2006 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:55:24 -0300 Subject: What's The Verdict, Web or Not? In-Reply-To: <9910226544.20060705115920@ahsoftware.net> References: <44ABE17C.1030104@fourthworld.com> <63CFBA81-94D3-41E6-8F0B-A169A65D771F@mac.com> <70ed6b130607050930h2a24100aub1dbc300493978d8@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20060705123558.200ef8b8@exchange.slg.com> <70ed6b130607051122xa0396b8gaf7df1d19b7acae4@mail.gmail.com> <9910226544.20060705115920@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Dan, can I have a free copy, please, pretty pretty please!!!! :-) PS: I am trying to draw pigeons to be actors in a "AJAX help page" I'll be putting up... Cheers andre On Jul 5, 2006, at 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Dan- > > Wednesday, July 5, 2006, 11:22:19 AM, you wrote: > >> Too late. > >> "The Complete Book of AJAX: Or How I Learned to Love Pigeons >> Despite Their >> Poop" coming soon to a bookstore near you. > > The Straight Poop On Ajax > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From brucegregory at earthlink.net Wed Jul 5 21:57:19 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 18:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <79dd7027ad0dd4ccf8409551ec6732c3@mac.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <79dd7027ad0dd4ccf8409551ec6732c3@mac.com> Message-ID: <5192582.post@talk.nabble.com> Bj?rnke: I didn't specifiy precisely what it is I want to achieve in my last post because it was already long enough. I actually have several different projects in mind that I would, before I die, like to try to accomplish, but don't know if they are realistic for one guy, working alone. I know I can do the graphics and the basic interactivity, but these projects go deeper than that: 1. The adventure game "kit" to end them all. I don't play many games, and the only ones I found to be engaging were the ancient ones like King's Quest and Myst. King's Quest, because it was cheerful, pleasant, encouraged thinking and had some mystery - and, best of all, it was full of fantasy - and bloodless, for the most part. Myst, because it took you to large empty places and let you look around, all over the place, solve moderately difficult puzzles, read a story and . . . look all over the place . . . and hear strange sounds and music. Pretty mindless, but it kept you going and was a good sequel to Cosmic Osmo, which I also liked a lot. Such an adventure game kit would contain those initial elements and functions that have been presented in the Revolution "Media" package in the form of a "wizard", but much more would be needed, like: A score keeping system, a logic system to control outcomes and actions, an inventory system with a visual interface, and the ability to do QuickTime VR, both cubic and regular with node linkages and probably some more stuff I haven't thought of. Well, a sprite system for character movements along paths, scene transitions, some kind of timeline to allow for synchronizing actions and music . . . A tall order. 2. A 2D game making system that incorporates the use of "intelligent", interconnecting building pieces which are assembled on either a 2D grid or an isometric "construction area". Such a system would vaguely resemble a kind of interactive Lego set, but each piece would already "know" what it could do, having certain routines encapsulated in itself, which, when linked "physically" with other pieces could combine routines and produce certain finite results, (i.e some pieces have the ability to "fly" from one place to another, others can lift objects to various heights, still others might be able to climb vertical surfaces and adhere to "ceilings", some, more simple, just perform a simple rotation on whatever comes in contact with it, and still others act like magnets, creating forces to draw or repel objects, and so on). Building with such a set of "lego" pieces would allow the players to have fun by testing reactions that take place when pieces are connected together and also supply hours of entertainment by giving them a comprehensive game creation system. Very hard to explain exactly with words alone. Such a system would also need score keeping "pieces" and inventory "pieces" and a similar time line system as mentioned above. Many components could be shared between the adventure system and the 2D "action" system. 3. A comprehensive presentation system which incorporates all forms of QuickTime media, in addition to external sprites, timers, objects with life spans, an action/reaction timeline and a system to produce interactions between all of these objects, not just some of them. Such a system would be icon based, include drag and drop encapsulation of object with actions as a single entity, good for reusable items, (an interactive object library), after-the-fact narration and sound addition on an "action-by-action" basis. With all of this functionality in one package, it would not be limited to being just a presentation tool, but an entire interactive media authoring system. All three of these projects would aimed initially at Mac audiences, because they seem to have a marked appetite for the fun and the frivolous. And, they tend not to take themselves or their computers very seriously. How could they when they have to buy a new one every couple of years or so. Macs, I mean. By the way, I think wizards take the "assistance" paradigm a little too far, depriving the creator of some of the best parts of creating. They put you in a corner the minute you begin. Better would be a intelligent assistant that helps you, yourself solidify what it is you are trying to create, then make some suggestions regarding how to proceed. I've got another one, but let's see what anyone has to feed back regarding these three projects. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5192582 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From bobwarren at howsoft.com Wed Jul 5 22:08:18 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 23:08:18 -0300 Subject: Linux on PPC and RR Message-ID: <44AC7092.2030006@howsoft.com> Richmond Mathewson wrote: > PS. By the way . . . has anybody else discoverd "GIMPSHOP" ? its GIMP "tarted up" for those of us who got used to Photoshop but can no longer stump up the money - its really very good indeed! --------------------- No, but since you mention it I'll give it a try. At the moment I have Pixel which is 95% identical to Photoshop. It's still in beta and if you buy it now it costs only $32 for both the Linux and Windows versions (a saving of $47 over the final price which has already been set at $79). This includes all versions up to 2.0 plus support. Bob From brucegregory at earthlink.net Wed Jul 5 22:11:17 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 19:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <44AB86C8.1F61CE00@club-internet.fr> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AB86C8.1F61CE00@club-internet.fr> Message-ID: <5192690.post@talk.nabble.com> jbv: I didn't find your reply rude at all. Curt, maybe, but definitely not rude. I don't reject the idea of needing to "program" to make things really, specifically useful. Just, please don't call it that. Also, if Revolution ever hopes to become the buddy of the non-technically oriented, everyone here needs to drop the use of the word "code". It has terrible and terrifying implications. Scares 'em right away. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5192690 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From bobwarren at howsoft.com Wed Jul 5 22:17:47 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 23:17:47 -0300 Subject: [OT] Market Share Message-ID: <44AC72CB.6080805@howsoft.com> Mark Wieder wrote: Bob- Wednesday, July 5, 2006, 10:47:12 AM, you wrote: >> 2) Giving us some means of discovering whether a floppy diskette drive >> exists in the hardware (since it cannot be done by the normal 'Windows' >> method). How about looking at the /etc/fstab file and checking for the presence of a /dev/fd0 entry? -------------------------------- That works fine on Ubuntu, but for other distros the fstab is either in a different place or it doesn't even seem to exist! Bob From lists at mangomultimedia.com Wed Jul 5 22:18:13 2006 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 19:18:13 -0700 Subject: Reset Locals? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11F64DCF-DB55-49C4-B3F3-4885B45F93E4@mangomultimedia.com> On Jul 5, 2006, at 6:37 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > OK, script local variables are persistent now in 2.7.x. In the > readme, if I > read it correctly, it appears one must do the following to reset > the local > values: > > set the script of to tNewScript > > Is this correct? Do we really need to set the script to itself (or > another > script) to reset the variables? > > The above works here, but this process seems to be, well, unusual. > I would > think I would be able to somehow access the local variables via > script and > reset them. Please let me know if I'm missing something. Scott, script locals are only preserved across script compilation if you set the preserveVariables to true Otherwise 2.7 behaves as previous engines. If you set preserveVariables to true AND you want your script locals to reset each time you compile then declare them as follows: local myVariable = "" This gives the variable a default value each time the script compiles. If you want the variable to retain it's value even after a script is compiled then declare it like this: local myVariable Hope this makes sense, -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems - www.bluemangolearning.com trevor at bluemangolearning.com From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 22:32:38 2006 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:32:38 -0700 Subject: Reset Locals? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/5/06 6:37 PM, "Scott Rossi" wrote: > OK, script local variables are persistent now in 2.7.x. In the readme, if I > read it correctly, it appears one must do the following to reset the local > values: > > set the script of to tNewScript > > Is this correct? Do we really need to set the script to itself (or another > script) to reset the variables? > > The above works here, but this process seems to be, well, unusual. I would > think I would be able to somehow access the local variables via script and > reset them. Please let me know if I'm missing something. This should work in all versions (I use 'z' for my globals so they get listed at the bottom of variable watcher) local sTempp, sNotTempp global zPerm, zTempp on test put "data" into zPerm put "data" into zTempp put "data" into sTempp put "data" into sNotTempp put sTempp&cr& sNotTempp&cr&zTempp&cr& zPerm end test on clearThings clear local sTempp clear global zTempp delete variable zPerm --actually deletes it --however, then next script that declares it recreates it --if the other scripts do not declare the global, it does --not appear in variable watcher put sTempp &cr& sNotTempp &cr& zTempp &cr& zPerm end clearThings Jim Ault Las Vegas From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jul 5 22:48:23 2006 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:48:23 -0500 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> Garrett Hylltun wrote: > I even suffer from A.D.D., and was totally lost at first, even working > the IDE was causing me some frustration, but then one day... BAM! And > now it's like taking the dog for a walk. I had to smile at this, mostly because I remember you going through it. Congrats, Garrett, you've crossed over. :) Your learning curve was pretty classic. First you hate it, then you start to see possibilities, then you "get it", then the world's your oyster. Takes a few weeks, but is well worth it. But as Greg says, not everyone wants to be a programmer. I'm not sure how Rev could dumb itself down enough to do what Greg wants without any programming at all. I think Media with its templates is a step in the right direction, but Rev is definitely a programming environment and without at least some scripting it can only do so much. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jul 5 22:54:03 2006 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:54:03 -0500 Subject: Can't enter anything with the keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44AC7B4B.1060308@hyperactivesw.com> Bill wrote: > I have a new bug or error which makes it so I can't type in any field > including the property inspector or the message box after I print a card to > my HP laserjet 1320. > > In order to get out of the locked effect I either have to close and restart > runrev or sometimes close just one of the stacks I'm working on. > > Has anyone seen this? When you try to enter text anywhere even control m to > bring up the message box (you can use the mouse and the menus) it will beep. > > There is no error window or palettes open. This is pretty classic of a modal dialog being open, and since you can't see it, it may be hidden behind some other window. (That's hard to do, but it can happen.) Try hitting the return key when it next happens to see if you can trigger the default response in the dialog and close the window. Then walk through your scripts to figure out what modal window might be opening (ask and answer dialogs are modal, for example. Check for those.) There is almost nothing else that causes all actions in any stack, including the IDE, to just beep. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Wed Jul 5 23:43:59 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:43:59 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <44AC86FF.4050400@paraboliclogic.com> J. Landman Gay wrote: [snip] > But as Greg says, not everyone wants to be a programmer. I'm not sure > how Rev could dumb itself down enough to do what Greg wants without any > programming at all. I think Media with its templates is a step in the > right direction, but Rev is definitely a programming environment and > without at least some scripting it can only do so much. I just read what he says he wants to do. Adventure Game Kits and such. In that context, there's just no way around the infamous word *Programming*. I'm not really familiar with KeyNote, but I do understand "Presentation" tools, and I do not think that any presentation tool is going to be able to accomplish what he wants. Greg, did you know that Myst was originally written in HyperCard, the inspiration for MetaCard, which is now Revolution? So if you're thinking of really taking that Myst like creation kit to a final product, then you know for sure that Rev can accomplish it. Well anyway, I think you've got enough research into this now on the Rev side. With all the replies I read, there was some excellent advice and information there. It's up to you now and how dedicated to your projects that you want to be. -Garrett From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Wed Jul 5 23:51:11 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 20:51:11 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5192690.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AB86C8.1F61CE00@club-internet.fr> <5192690.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: Hey we program, and we use code. What's so technical about that? I don't think Rev has to stoop to kindergarten level either, nor strive to be the buddy of non-technicals. Programming with a good tool is by nature technical. At some point words have to be used to describe things, and these words already exist. I'd hate to have to use terms like "put the white box in here and the other one over there...." I'll be programming 'til they pry the mouse out of my cold, dead fingers. (grin) >jbv: > >I didn't find your reply rude at all. Curt, maybe, but definitely not rude. > >I don't reject the idea of needing to "program" to make things really, >specifically useful. Just, please don't call it that. Also, if Revolution >ever hopes to become the buddy of the non-technically oriented, everyone >here needs to drop the use of the word "code". It has terrible and >terrifying implications. Scares 'em right away. > >Greg Smith -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 00:02:35 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 21:02:35 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5192582.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <79dd7027ad0dd4ccf8409551ec6732c3@mac.com> <5192582.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607052102g4f3e43d8if3adc3f33330e07d@mail.gmail.com> Greg.... You and I have had similar aspirations, it seems. The ideas are different but their seminal grounding is the same. I long ago concluded that the only way to get what I want is to bite the bullet and become a programmer. A lot of what you want to do encapsulates intelligence and behavior in reusable objects. For that, you may find an object-oriented tool like Smalltalk (specifically Squeak) more amenable. Tons of simulations (which are close to what you seem to be thinking) have been done in Smalltalk over the decades. There are a LOT of substrates and components out there already. My take is that Rev is not likely to be an easy, malleable environment in which to create the kinds of things your obviously fertile mind is already dreaming up, let alone the things that will spring forth from those already rich ideas. Just my opinion, of course, but I think you'd find more shoulders on which to stand (i.e., components, objects, concepts, tools) over in Smalltalkland than you will in RevWorld. On 7/5/06, GregSmith wrote: > > > Bj?rnke: > > I didn't specifiy precisely what it is I want to achieve in my last post > because it was already long enough. I actually have several different > projects in mind that I would, before I die, like to try to accomplish, > but > don't know if they are realistic for one guy, working alone. I know I can > do the graphics and the basic interactivity, but these projects go deeper > than that: > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jul 6 00:42:14 2006 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:42:14 -0700 Subject: Reset Locals? In-Reply-To: <11F64DCF-DB55-49C4-B3F3-4885B45F93E4@mangomultimedia.com> Message-ID: Recently, Trevor DeVore wrote: > script locals are only preserved across script compilation if you > > set the preserveVariables to true > > Otherwise 2.7 behaves as previous engines. Thanks, but this doesn't seem to be the case here (OSX 10.3.9, Rev 2.7.2). New stack/button script: local myCheck on mouseUp if myCheck = "" then put 5 into myCheck else put 2 into myCheck answer myCheck end mouseUp After the first "check", the value of myCheck is consistently 2, even when the script is edited. Rev says the preserveVariables is false. In previous versions (for me), any time the script is edited, the local is reset. I just checked with 2.6.1 and this is the case. The only two reasons I can think of why this might be are 1) it's an OSX 10.3.9 thing (as opposed to 10.4), or it's something the Rev guys are fixing for 2.7.3. ??? (Also, why is the answer dialog so slow to appear in Rev 2.7? 2.6 is way faster.) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From wjm at wjm.org Thu Jul 6 00:49:38 2006 From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:49:38 -0400 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com><7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com><5190992.post@talk.nabble.com><79dd7027ad0dd4ccf8409551ec6732c3@mac.com><5192582.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052102g4f3e43d8if3adc3f33330e07d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I think I see his problem. Greg is a Rev Media user who was interested in the "Adventure Game" module. His post finally prompted me to download the Media trial and give it a spin. The adventure module is really, um, "bare bones." That's all I'm going to say about it, but no wonder he's disappointed. From scott at elementarysoftware.com Thu Jul 6 00:59:02 2006 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 21:59:02 -0700 Subject: Can't enter anything with the keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <177BF418-21C2-4FB9-B74B-61064FFEC345@elementarysoftware.com> Bill, A variation on Jacqueline's post, is a situation that puzzled me in version 2.5 - though I think was "fixed" in version 2.6. Under OSX, if a dialog was called as a sheet AND an open window was hidden off- screen then the sheet could appear on the off screen window... sometimes causing an effect similar to the one you are describing. -Scott Morrow Elementary Software (Now with 20% less chalk dust !) web http://elementarysoftware.com/ email scott at elementarysoftware.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- On Jul 5, 2006, at 4:47 PM, Bill wrote: > I have a new bug or error which makes it so I can't type in any field > including the property inspector or the message box after I print a > card to > my HP laserjet 1320. > > In order to get out of the locked effect I either have to close and > restart > runrev or sometimes close just one of the stacks I'm working on. > > Has anyone seen this? When you try to enter text anywhere even > control m to > bring up the message box (you can use the mouse and the menus) it > will beep. > > There is no error window or palettes open. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Thu Jul 6 00:58:43 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 21:58:43 -0700 Subject: Reset Locals? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think the IDE slows down some things - this does not happen with a standalone. > > >(Also, why is the answer dialog so slow to appear in Rev 2.7? 2.6 is way >faster.) > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jul 6 01:11:07 2006 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 22:11:07 -0700 Subject: Reset Locals? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Jim Ault wrote: >> Is this correct? Do we really need to set the script to itself (or another >> script) to reset the variables? > This should work in all versions > (I use 'z' for my globals so they get listed at the bottom of variable > watcher) Thanks Jim -- that gives me an idea. I'm still curious though... I seem to remember seeing this on the list many many moons ago: is there a way to access the local variables of a script from outside the script? Something like: get the myCoolVar of script of btn 2 Was I dreaming or is this possible? Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Thu Jul 6 01:41:41 2006 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 22:41:41 -0700 Subject: Reset Locals? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm still curious though... I seem to remember seeing this on the list many > many moons ago: is there a way to access the local variables of a script > from outside the script? Something like: > > get the myCoolVar of script of btn 2 > > Was I dreaming or is this possible? The only way I know to move/create the 'global' scope is store the variable in a button, card or stack property, then refer to it the usual way get the cpMyCoolStoredVarThatCanBeSavedWithTheStack of btn 2 of .... Once a handler dies, all the constructs supported by it should die. As soon as I post this Ken or somebody will show there is a way that uses a shell command + a DLL registry call + a libURL undocumented feature :-) Jim Ault Las Vegas On 7/5/06 10:11 PM, "Scott Rossi" wrote: > Recently, Jim Ault wrote: > >>> Is this correct? Do we really need to set the script to itself (or another >>> script) to reset the variables? > >> This should work in all versions >> (I use 'z' for my globals so they get listed at the bottom of variable >> watcher) > > Thanks Jim -- that gives me an idea. > > I'm still curious though... I seem to remember seeing this on the list many > many moons ago: is there a way to access the local variables of a script > from outside the script? Something like: > > get the myCoolVar of script of btn 2 > > Was I dreaming or is this possible? From chipp at chipp.com Thu Jul 6 02:03:42 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 01:03:42 -0500 Subject: Reset Locals? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7aa52a210607052303q16b2fea9h37f2e0cf00bbbbe2@mail.gmail.com> Hi Scott. First, I love local variables! I typically use them a lot in libraries, because they reset themselves when you quit and restart. But, while editting scripts, I typically put a checkLocals handler at the beginning of most handlers which use them. Something like: on checkLocals if lWhatTimeIsIt is "" then initLocals end if end checkLocals Then, if I need to access a local from outside the script, I use: function altReturnLocal pLocal do ("return " & pLocal) end altReturnLocal From brucegregory at earthlink.net Thu Jul 6 02:22:29 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 23:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> Jacqueline: I think you are using completely the wrong terminology to describe what I want a program like Revolution to do for me. You use the entirely insulting phrase "dumbed down" with regard to making Revolution more friendly to a user like myself. Better polish up those social skills of yours. If Revolution is so "dumb" already, that it cannot become accessable and immediately useful to a person such as myself, then it is Revolution that needs to be "smartened up", making it more accessable and useful, not "dumbed down" as you so tactlessly have put it. Why must an intelligent person be made to twist his organized and fruitful thinking into something less than that? Why also, must such a person be forced to address a machine with terms and phrases and sequences that are alien and unnatural, not catering to the needs of that user, but rather forcing the user to lower himself to communicate in the primal grunts and groans that the machine is used to responding to? Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5194387 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 02:42:13 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 23:42:13 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> Greg..... For one who accuses others of lacking social skills, yours are a tad unpolished. Why would you want to insult those of us who have taken the time and trouble to learn these "primal grunts and groans" to master a skill that would, if you mastered it, accomplish what you set out to do? You want a tool that will let you achieve all your dreams without having to do anything out of the ordinary to do so. Dream on. Ain't gonna happen. The ideas you set out are bright, intriguing and powerful. They are not going to be accomplished without *significant* software programming effort on *someone's* part. What is "alien and unnatural" to you is "natural and accessible" to those of us who have toiled in the software vineyards with far more cryptic machine-like languages for years and years...decades even. On 7/5/06, GregSmith wrote: > > > Why also, must such a person be > forced to address a machine with terms and phrases and sequences that are > alien and unnatural, not catering to the needs of that user, but rather > forcing the user to lower himself to communicate in the primal grunts and > groans that the machine is used to responding to? -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From brucegregory at earthlink.net Thu Jul 6 02:58:01 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 23:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> Jacqueline: The real question that needs to be answered is, why now, with the tools of today, like Squeak or Croquet, would I want to resort to "coding" using the grunts and groans of yesteryear? I'm sorry for those many years you and others have toiled away trying to master those alien techniques "required" to make a machine do relatively simple things. I don't have a lot of years left to start from the point people like you started at many years ago. We should have come farther by now and should not be satisfied with anything other than those tools which save us the most time and energy. I made no insult to any person by suggesting that standard "programming" is the equivalent of communication using a series of grunts and groans. The fact that inventors of "modern" computer languages do not see beyond those methods which have already spent the lives of millions of deskbound slaves really constitutes the major technological insult. It is the required use of languages like these that force users like us to become "dumbed down". Need we submit to this kind of humiliation? Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5194690 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From rodneys at io.com Thu Jul 6 03:02:41 2006 From: rodneys at io.com (Rodney Somerstein) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:02:41 -0400 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607052102g4f3e43d8if3adc3f33330e07d@mail.gmail.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <79dd7027ad0dd4ccf8409551ec6732c3@mac.com> <5192582.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052102g4f3e43d8if3adc3f33330e07d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >My take is that Rev is not likely to be an easy, malleable environment in >which to create the kinds of things your obviously fertile mind is already >dreaming up, let alone the things that will spring forth from those already >rich ideas. > >Just my opinion, of course, but I think you'd find more shoulders on which >to stand (i.e., components, objects, concepts, tools) over in Smalltalkland >than you will in RevWorld. Wow! We couldn't differ more on this opinion, Dan. For someone who doesn't want to do much programming, Smalltalk is probably not the environment to go to. Environments such as Squeak will require him to program pretty much everything. No nice graphical starting point the way there is in Rev. And, it is REALLY unintuitive to anyone who hasn't drunk the Smalltalk Cool Aid. Just figuring out what mouse clicks do takes some work. Smalltalk is essentially an operating system. No I will give you the object oriented nature of things in the Smalltalk world. That is really the one place that it really excels. But when it comes to anything else other than object oriented programming, which isn't his goal, I wouldn't steer anyone to Smalltalk. If some of the Smalltalk folks could create a nice environment that makes it easy to target a variety of OS platforms, I might be convinced otherwise. However, the only attempts that I've seen tend to be very pricey and still result in Smalltalk-like, rather than familiar, environments to work in. The truth is, what this person wants to do will require programming. Rev is probably the friendliest environment currently available to get going with. In part, due to the the nice folks on this mailing list. RealBASIC might give it a run for the money as it has some pretty rabid, helpful users as well. Not as cross-platform or quite as easy to use, but still another place to steer a developer wanna-be. And he is a developer wanna-be. He just doesn't know it or want to admit it yet. ;-) -Rodney From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 03:02:57 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:02:57 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607060002p2e460c39gd7c0476e4baa0e68@mail.gmail.com> It should be noted, Greg, that it was I, not Jacque, who made the comments to which you are responding. And, FWIW, I don't completely disagree with you that we should be farther along. I suspect I have even fewer years left to accomplish my big software goals than you. (At least I think I'm the oldest active xTalker as far as I can tell, or certainly in the top 10). But we can't spend time bemoaning the fact that the tools aren't farther along if we expect to accomplish great things, either. Squeak and Croquet are awesome and are much more like what I'd like to use for development but they have some big disadvantages when it comes to deployment as well. Everything's a tradeoff. On 7/5/06, GregSmith wrote: > > > Jacqueline: > > The real question that needs to be answered is, why now, with the tools of > today, like Squeak or Croquet, would I want to resort to "coding" using > the > grunts and groans of yesteryear? I'm sorry for those many years you and > others have toiled away trying to master those alien techniques "required" > to make a machine do relatively simple things. I don't have a lot of > years > left to start from the point people like you started at many years > ago. We > should have come farther by now and should not be satisfied with anything > other than those tools which save us the most time and energy. I made no > insult to any person by suggesting that standard "programming" is the > equivalent of communication using a series of grunts and groans. The fact > that inventors of "modern" computer languages do not see beyond those > methods which have already spent the lives of millions of deskbound slaves > really constitutes the major technological insult. It is the required use > of languages like these that force users like us to become "dumbed down". > Need we submit to this kind of humiliation? > > Greg Smith > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5194690 > Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From rodneys at io.com Thu Jul 6 03:11:48 2006 From: rodneys at io.com (Rodney Somerstein) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:11:48 -0400 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: Greg Smith wrote: >It is the required use of languages like these that force users like >us to become "dumbed down". Need we submit to this kind of >humiliation? Greg, It isn't the users that need to be "dumbed down". Rather, it is the environment that Jacqueline was referring to. You are essentially asking for someone to create a simple (and for want of a better term) dumbed down environment that will allow you to create exactly the kind of programs that you want. All without having to spend the time learning to program. There is no such thing. Unless someone else has the exact same vision as you and wants to develop such a tool using a programming language, it will never exist. You aren't looking for a smarter tool. You are asking to avoid spending the time learning what is necessary to create the tool you want. A tool that is limited to doing what you want is "dumber" than a general purpose programming environment such as Revolution. By "dumber" I mean that it is more specialized and removes many of the features and adds others to make it easier to do just what you want. Could Revolution be an easier environment to work with? Absolutely. It could include better tools for a lot of what it does. Even from the developers' standpoint it could be a better language, such as implementing true object oriented features. However, it currently seems to be, at least for most of the people here, the best general purpose environment for creating a wide variety of programs. What you are asking for doesn't exist at this time. Unless you can show the folks at Runtime Revolution that there is a real business case for what you are looking for, they probably won't give it to you. Their customer base is already too varied and there are too many demands on them to add features already for them to produce the environment that you want. -Rodney From brucegregory at earthlink.net Thu Jul 6 03:15:17 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607060002p2e460c39gd7c0476e4baa0e68@mail.gmail.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607060002p2e460c39gd7c0476e4baa0e68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5194878.post@talk.nabble.com> Dan & Rodney: O.K., now, just as I was salivating over the potential usefulness and joy of using Squeak, Rodney comes along and throws water all over me. Which is it? Who is right? I haven't yet had time to look at the actual Squeak language, but I did see that incredibly direct and simple "kids" example of using Squeak over at SqueakLand, or is it SmallTalkLand? EToys. And then there is the integration of all the functionality that the Alice environment offered, brought over into SqueakLand, or whatever it is called. Is it all too good to be really true? My initial impressions of this environment were that it teaches new users, even kids, to apprehend, to comprehend the concepts involved in programming, so that, after those things are grasped, then the cryptic programming terminology can be introduced which, if those are introduced first, confuses the heck out of anyone wanting to learn to program. Even if a programming language is English-like, what is needed beyond and prior to learning lines of "code" is really understanding sequences of events and why they need to be in the order that they need to be in to get the machine to respond properly. Right? Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5194878 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From brucegregory at earthlink.net Thu Jul 6 03:31:20 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> Rodney: You really haven't thoroughly read what I have written. I have stated that I am not opposed to learning to program, but, rather, opposed to having to learn the skills with inadequate foundational learning material. What is Transcript really like, language wise? Other than the simple card analogy, what and why and how does it define other types of "custom" objects - the kind I want to make? When presented with only an API which tells a lot of "whats" without explaining why and when, or by taking apart a sample bunch of "code" that is written for purposes other than that which I specifically need to employ, I end up spending a lot of time working without understanding. This is largely wasteful. I'm not asking for a tool that does everything for me. I'm asking for a computer language that lets me translate my organized thoughts and imagination into useful bits that, when assembled together, form working components of a total working system. And, it would be helpful if, along with such a language, came an insightful translation of the equivalent of words, phrases, sentences, paragraphs and finally, whole stories - especially if the language claims to be English-like. If English is the analogy, then the analogy needs to be explained, piece by piece, concept by concept. Maybe this is what does not exist. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5195060 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From chipp at chipp.com Thu Jul 6 04:18:33 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:18:33 -0500 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607060118v5366e4ecs65461b85dd000768@mail.gmail.com> Hi Greg, I think I understand what you want. And for that matter, I believe many of us want it too. The fact is, computers *should* be much simpler to use. We should be able to describe what we want it to do, and have it done. Sadly, we're still a long way off. Computers aren't getting simpler to use-- just the opposite. For there's this major problem: The more powerful things we want to do, the more complicated the tool becomes. This isn't new. Think of the original horse and buggy, compared to our fancy cars. While we take for granted how easy it is to drive, just imagine how hard it would be for someone who has never seen a car. And computers are so much less finite in their function. All that said, none of us are getting younger, and I doubt our 5th or 6th generation computers will come along in our lifetime. So, in order to produce what we want, we need to become students, then masters of the tool we choose, be it Smalltalk, Javascript, Transcript, C or Photoshop. As my friend, Chris says, 'It's hard to do something hard.' So, just like someone learning to paint, you have to start at the beginning. Build a foundation. I think many have given you some excellent starting points. But, the sooner you understand it takes a serious commitment, the sooner you'll become productive. Complaining about how hard it is, doesn't really solve anything-- though I do agree with your point about the lack of materials for RunRev. That said, Dan certainly has a good primer you should check out. Count me as one more vote for Transcript over Smalltalk. Good luck and I hope you find your way, Chipp From mark at maseurope.net Thu Jul 6 04:32:17 2006 From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:32:17 +0100 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 6 Jul 2006, at 08:31, GregSmith wrote: > I'm not asking for a tool that does everything for me. I'm asking > for a > computer language that lets me translate my organized thoughts and > imagination into useful bits that, when assembled together, form > working > components of a total working system. Greg, what you describe is what pretty much every modern general- purpose programming language can claim to offer. The ideas you have sound non-trivial to me, and it's going to take a serious and deep commitment from you to bring them into reality, whatever tools you choose. An excerpt from http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html > Researchers (Hayes, Bloom) have shown it takes about ten years to > develop expertise in any of a wide variety of areas, including > chess playing, music composition, painting, piano playing, > swimming, tennis, and research in neuropsychology and topology. > There appear to be no real shortcuts: even Mozart, who was a > musical prodigy at age 4, took 13 more years before he began to > produce world-class music. Now I suspect that most people can do productive work in Revolution after a shorter period than ten years, but even with the best learning materials ever, there is inherently so much to assimilate, that it's not going to happen in days. What I think you have in mind would be quite major undertakings for even a very experienced developer. As a good way in to it all, I'll also recommend Dans book 'Software at the speed of thought'. Best, Mark From brucegregory at earthlink.net Thu Jul 6 04:34:05 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 01:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <7aa52a210607060118v5366e4ecs65461b85dd000768@mail.gmail.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607060118v5366e4ecs65461b85dd000768@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5195760.post@talk.nabble.com> Chipp: Thank you for your many replies to my questions. I'll try to take your word regarding your programming language recommendation, but I really don't yet understand why you or Rodney feel this way. Object orientation has always made complete sense to me - the encapsulation of very small functions and their assembly into larger components. Traditional programming describes a sequence of events, detail by detail instead of an assemblage of simple parts. This seems counter-intuitive to me. As I understand it, Transcript is not object oriented. It may have syntax that resembles English, but the construction of systems is what I am aiming at and it seems natural to define a system in terms of itty bitty parts that combine together to make bigger and more complex things. Think of the Model T car. Pretty useful, but really not all that complex considering it is made up of merely 300 fairly simple parts. Looked at a part at a time, creating a Model T seems quite within practical limits. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5195760 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Thu Jul 6 05:06:33 2006 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 02:06:33 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5195760.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: Ahhh, I too like the concepts of object orientation. Flash Actionscript moves pretty far along this path. Their advantage is that they have created their own universe and all the objects are defined to work there. Databases are also good candidates for object oriented approaches, but when products come out that do this (Helix, Serious), they fail to deliver the intricate power needed and fall by the wayside. Compiling a program to work with a computer operating system is much different, let alone more than one platform. It is difficult to think that you could take a trip from Seattle to Miami any time of the year in a Model T. The kit of 300 parts would not include disc brakes or climate control, nor would it produce a car that could travel at 50-60 mph for hours. Rev is more like a workshop with wonderful tools, some very powerful, some primitive. With this workshop you can build an amazing array of 'cars' or buses or trailers or cabinets or furniture or refrigerators or fences or even more power tools to build other tools and products. Thus tools to build parts to build cars, but also tools to build tools to build even more powerful tools to build planes and rockets. One real world example is a web page designer who knows the craft, but trying using one of the hosting sites' template 'easy-to-build' tools. Quite frustrating to have such limited options to satisfy the needs and desires of a client. I also know that I would not spend the hours trying to do what Scott Rossi does with his cool stacks, and Richard Gaskin with his, and Chipp & Chris with their products, and Sarah, Jacqueline, Ken, etc, etc. Such complete knowledge and experience is possible with Rev, but the years it would take to get there! So which areas would you build in as object oriented? Jim Ault Las Vegas On 7/6/06 1:34 AM, "GregSmith" wrote: > > Chipp: > > Thank you for your many replies to my questions. I'll try to take your word > regarding your programming language recommendation, but I really don't yet > understand why you or Rodney feel this way. Object orientation has always > made complete sense to me - the encapsulation of very small functions and > their assembly into larger components. Traditional programming describes a > sequence of events, detail by detail instead of an assemblage of simple > parts. This seems counter-intuitive to me. As I understand it, Transcript > is not object oriented. It may have syntax that resembles English, but the > construction of systems is what I am aiming at and it seems natural to > define a system in terms of itty bitty parts that combine together to make > bigger and more complex things. Think of the Model T car. Pretty useful, > but really not all that complex considering it is made up of merely 300 > fairly simple parts. Looked at a part at a time, creating a Model T seems > quite within practical limits. > > Greg Smith From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr Thu Jul 6 05:30:10 2006 From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:30:10 +0200 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AB86C8.1F61CE00@club-internet.fr> <5192690.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <44ACD81E.3281048D@club-internet.fr> Greg, I'm glad you didn't find me rude... When posting to a list, I'm always a bit scared to be misunderstood, because : - english isn't my native language and I'm always in a hurry - I sometimes express some "abrasive" opinions that ppl from other cultures may find a bit rude or shocking... Anyway, as for becoming a programer, I hope you don't mind if I share some experience. A few times I've been teaching the basics of HC and its sequels (OMO, Rev...) to some friends with basic programing` skills (at least they knew what a variable, a loop, an if-then-else structure were)... I told them about the stack structure (cards, backgrounds, btns & flds, scripts & handlers...) and the message passing hierarchy... It didn't take more than A COUPLE OF HOURS... After that they were on their own. Of course, they had to browse the docs to know the exact syntax and use of each available function, property, etc. But they had a basic framework in mind that allowed them to improve by themselves... I'm sure anyone can follow the same path... And as for the word "code", we all use it because we all consider it as one of the most exciting and promisingword (the other one being "sex")... In the information age in which we live, "code" contains the promises of so many exciting things to discover, from computer science to genetics to astrophysics (some scientists say that the universe could be a giant computer program)... Very complex things can be generated from a few lines of code : fractals, cellular automata, ADN... So I suggest that you change your point of view regarding that word... It might actually help you become a programer... Best, JB > jbv: > > I didn't find your reply rude at all. Curt, maybe, but definitely not rude. > > I don't reject the idea of needing to "program" to make things really, > specifically useful. Just, please don't call it that. Also, if Revolution > ever hopes to become the buddy of the non-technically oriented, everyone > here needs to drop the use of the word "code". It has terrible and > terrifying implications. Scares 'em right away. > From livfoss at mac.com Thu Jul 6 05:33:02 2006 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:33:02 +0200 Subject: Possible New Book Titles Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:33:06 -0700, "Dan Shafer" wrote: > OK, I'm trying to figure out the best next subject on which to > produce a > SmartEBook eBooklet. The following topics remain on my list and are > candidates based on the relatively small likelihood that > fundamental changes > in Rev will obsolete them in the next year. I'd be interested in > votes, > feedback, other suggestions, etc. > > * Script-based commands > > Edit script, editscript, wait, do, scriptlimits, text/font related > properties, insert script, remove script, start using > > * The Message Box > > Examination of all panes, properties, uses of the Message Box > > * Debugging strategies and techniques > > * Parameters, Variables and Values in Transcript > > * Building and Deploying Standalones Hi Dan Sorry it's taken me so long to reply - I agree with others that debugging is a very interesting topic. I've written a lot of Rev code but I have never got beyond the simplest debugging tools, because I never seem to have time to experiment with what's on offer, particularly in the 'Development' menu of the RunRev IDE. An eBooklet would help get round this, and I'd certainly buy it. I'm also keen on the Standalones idea, particularly if it addresses the issue of platform-specific quirks and difficulties - at least for Mac and PC (sorry, Richmond). This also leads me to suggest an eBooklet dedicated to cross-platform issues such as fonts (and font sizes), menus, OS pitfalls and the like: the aim would be to guide people trying to produce a single code base for a multi-platform app, and would cover stuff like why and where to put conditional code which queries which OS the prog is running in, etc. HTH Graham (just off to buy your booklet on Printing) ---------------------------------------- Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France From viktoras at ekoinf.net Thu Jul 6 06:18:47 2006 From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (Viktoras Didziulis) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:18:47 +0300 (FLE Standard Time) Subject: Possible New Book Titles References: Message-ID: <44ACE387.000001.02316@MAZYTIS> Hi Dan, I would suggest adding a couple of sections on handling raster and vector graphics in Revolution which would be helpful too. Also all the basics and details on communicating with externals, libraries and OS functions and devices would be good to have in same book :-) Best regards Viktoras On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:33:06 -0700, "Dan Shafer" wrote: > OK, I'm trying to figure out the best next subject on which to > produce a > SmartEBook eBooklet. The following topics remain on my list and are > candidates based on the relatively small likelihood that > fundamental changes > in Rev will obsolete them in the next year. I'd be interested in > votes, > feedback, other suggestions, etc. > > * Script-based commands > > Edit script, editscript, wait, do, scriptlimits, text/font related > properties, insert script, remove script, start using > > * The Message Box > > Examination of all panes, properties, uses of the Message Box > > * Debugging strategies and techniques > > * Parameters, Variables and Values in Transcript > > * Building and Deploying Standalones From barryb at libero.it Thu Jul 6 06:22:42 2006 From: barryb at libero.it (barryb at libero.it) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:22:42 +0200 Subject: how the internet works : the official explanation Message-ID: The pigeon - airplane metaphore was certainly well contrived by Andre but care should be taken in copying it literally (n.b. Peter and Dan). Pigeons CANNOT make round trips or even deliver outgoing messages! If you want one to carry a message you must first take the bird to the starting point (probably by plane), attach the message and then send it home (hence the name 'homing pigeon'). That is: only the owner of the pigeon can receive a message carried by it and if they try to send OUT a message the bird will just fly in circles with it around their own house! Internet-wise this would be like taking a blank message by hand, or snailmail, to a friend and waiting for them fill it in and send it back by email! As for the Senators discorse I can only add the Italian Parliament Member's declaration that "internet should be taught in schools", whatever that means, anyway most teachers would probably have to learn from the students! "Every Government should carry a Health Warning" OK, I'm rambling again. Thanks for all the kind answers to my first 'ramblings' Barry From lists at mangomultimedia.com Thu Jul 6 07:47:42 2006 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 04:47:42 -0700 Subject: Reset Locals? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EBFB91B-F971-4089-88FC-A81B3FDA464F@mangomultimedia.com> On Jul 5, 2006, at 9:42 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Thanks, but this doesn't seem to be the case here (OSX 10.3.9, Rev > 2.7.2). > > New stack/button script: > > local myCheck > on mouseUp > if myCheck = "" then > put 5 into myCheck > else put 2 into myCheck > answer myCheck > end mouseUp > > After the first "check", the value of myCheck is consistently 2, > even when > the script is edited. Rev says the preserveVariables is false. > > In previous versions (for me), any time the script is edited, the > local is > reset. I just checked with 2.6.1 and this is the case. > > The only two reasons I can think of why this might be are 1) it's > an OSX > 10.3.9 thing (as opposed to 10.4), or it's something the Rev guys > are fixing > for 2.7.3. ??? Hmm, I pasted your script into a button (2.7.2, OS X.4) and here is what I get with preserveVariables = false (default when launching Rev) - First click: answer dialog with 5 Second click: answer dialog with 2 I then added some spaces to script and recompiled. I get the same behavior as above indicating that myCheck was reset. I then set the preserveVariables to true. The answer dialog now displays "2" even after I recompile the script. Odd that it doesn't work under 10.3.9. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems - www.bluemangolearning.com trevor at bluemangolearning.com From stevex64 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 6 07:59:00 2006 From: stevex64 at yahoo.com (stevex64) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 04:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FTP process doesn't complete Message-ID: <5198275.post@talk.nabble.com> Hi all, I'm making a simple ftp client for a customer. They click a button to select a file and it automatically starts the upload. Server, username, password are all built in to the app so the user doesn't have to know anything but to click the button and find the file. This works fine on my laptop running WinXP, but it doesn't work right on 2 desktop pc's running the same OS. I have a text field that displays n bytes of nnn bytes uploaded, just the default upload status message. When the file is fully uploaded, that text is supposed to change to "file upload successful". On the two pc's where it doesn't work, it gets to nnn bytes of nnn bytes uploaded and then goes no further. It doesn't say the upload was successful, and when I finally kill the process, the file has not been uploaded to the ftp server. Any ideas? Thanks for any help! Steve Ralston -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/FTP-process-doesn%27t-complete-tf1900236.html#a5198275 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From mb.ur at harbourhosting.co.uk Thu Jul 6 08:40:16 2006 From: mb.ur at harbourhosting.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:40:16 +0100 Subject: FTP process doesn't complete In-Reply-To: <5198275.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5198275.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <44AD04B0.4090502@harbourhosting.co.uk> stevex64 wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm making a simple ftp client for a customer. They click a button to select > a file and it automatically starts the upload. Server, username, password > are all built in to the app so the user doesn't have to know anything but to > click the button and find the file. > > This works fine on my laptop running WinXP, but it doesn't work right on 2 > desktop pc's running the same OS. I have a text field that displays n bytes > of nnn bytes uploaded, just the default upload status message. When the file > is fully uploaded, that text is supposed to change to "file upload > successful". On the two pc's where it doesn't work, it gets to nnn bytes of > nnn bytes uploaded and then goes no further. It doesn't say the upload was > successful, and when I finally kill the process, the file has not been > uploaded to the ftp server. > > Any ideas? Thanks for any help! > > Steve Ralston Hi Steve 1) Maybe there's a firewall interfering? 2) Might be a timeout problem. try pre-setting the socketTimeoutInterval to a higher value to see if it makes a difference. Default is 10000, but I have found it often needs to be 20000 on XP for some reason. 3) Otherwise, if possible, you should debug in situ using a log field to see what's going on. (I've taken to building a log field facility into my apps that do this, as a sort of advanced feature the user can access under direction from me. Useful when these situations happen) Martin Baxter From effendi at wanadoo.fr Thu Jul 6 08:37:32 2006 From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:37:32 +0200 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts Message-ID: <2d27b0df9a8177cd4e8c4f69ad69fa57@wanadoo.fr> Hi from Paris, I carefully followed the discussion, and for some strange reason, the words of an old song floated through my brain . It is a conversation between a clown and a magician (no insult intended to anybody who contributed to this thread).... Extract from Tarot Suite - Mike Batt - 1979 ......... We both are right, said the sorcerer And both of us are wrong For though we walk this road We don't know where it leads We only know it's long You have something to learn from me And I can learn from you You with your jokes and simple plans And me with my tricks and sleight of hand Together we could get through Imbecile, we are dancing down a darkened road, Though the stars are out, not one of us knows the way. Imbeciles up ahead of us and millions more behind And we're laughing and smiling, That's why I say - we're all of us Imbeciles ! Sorry to throw the proverbial spanner ..... -Francis From thierry.arbellot at laposte.net Thu Jul 6 07:02:29 2006 From: thierry.arbellot at laposte.net (Thierry Arbellot) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:02:29 +0200 Subject: beta testers for unicode needed In-Reply-To: <7ADDD070-F0CF-4481-97ED-1B2C964CF0FD@maseurope.net> References: <0CDB85D3-5E80-4D6F-8F5F-0877214B8B92@dsl.pipex.com> <7ADDD070-F0CF-4481-97ED-1B2C964CF0FD@maseurope.net> Message-ID: <2d1aeaf6172b45aa9a49cc0c5017ff2a@laposte.net> Hello all, As you may know, Revolution is not able to open a file if the path or the filename contains unicode characters. Then, I've developed an external to work around this problem and use it in the last version of my shareware Toki TC. I successfully tested it with Korean characters. To complete the test, can someone on the list try with other languages, that are not western languages, and let me know the result ? What you need: - a Mac with OS X 10.2 or higher (should work in Mac Intel but not tested yet) - download Toki TC from this link http://perso.orange.fr/hal/tokitc1.3b1.zip - a movie with unicode characters in the path and/or the filename - start Toki TC and open the movie Toki TC should be able to open the movie, play it and display its filename in the window title. What doesn't work (yet): - display the name in the "open recent file" menu - drag and drop the file in the player I plan to make a Windows version, and then share the externals with the community. Thank you, Thierry From darkshadow1 at metrocast.net Thu Jul 6 09:28:09 2006 From: darkshadow1 at metrocast.net (Preston Shea) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:28:09 -0400 Subject: hilitedLine Message-ID: <000a01c6a100$05e84d60$6801a8c0@laptop> How do I cancel the hilight in a list box so that when the card opens no line is selected? Thanks. From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Thu Jul 6 09:35:10 2006 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:35:10 +0100 Subject: FTP process doesn't complete In-Reply-To: <5198275.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5198275.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <68A5987D-0B3B-4ED5-9BB1-D7F8F1A7727A@lacscentre.co.uk> On 6 Jul 2006, at 12:59, stevex64 wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm making a simple ftp client for a customer. They click a button > to select > a file and it automatically starts the upload. Server, username, > password > are all built in to the app so the user doesn't have to know > anything but to > click the button and find the file. > > This works fine on my laptop running WinXP, but it doesn't work > right on 2 > desktop pc's running the same OS. I have a text field that displays > n bytes > of nnn bytes uploaded, just the default upload status message. When > the file > is fully uploaded, that text is supposed to change to "file upload > successful". On the two pc's where it doesn't work, it gets to nnn > bytes of > nnn bytes uploaded and then goes no further. It doesn't say the > upload was > successful, and when I finally kill the process, the file has not been > uploaded to the ftp server. > > Any ideas? Thanks for any help! First, what version of libUrl are you using? Some changes were added in 1.1.5 which overcame some problems similar to what you describe. You can get the latest version here (1.1.6): http://www.lacscentre.co.uk/liburl/releases.html If that doesn't help, try following Martin's suggestions. Cheers Dave From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Jul 6 10:10:13 2006 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 16:10:13 +0200 Subject: beta testers for unicode needed In-Reply-To: <2d1aeaf6172b45aa9a49cc0c5017ff2a@laposte.net> References: <0CDB85D3-5E80-4D6F-8F5F-0877214B8B92@dsl.pipex.com> <7ADDD070-F0CF-4481-97ED-1B2C964CF0FD@maseurope.net> <2d1aeaf6172b45aa9a49cc0c5017ff2a@laposte.net> Message-ID: <8BA304B9-E8A0-4011-8CE9-69343F04E98A@economy-x-talk.com> Sounds promising, will test after the weekend. Thanks for your efforts. Best, Mark -- Economy-x-Talk Consultancy and Software Engineering http://economy-x-talk.com http://www.salery.biz Download ErrorLib at http://economy-x-talk.com/developers.html and get full control of error handling in Revolution. Op 6-jul-2006, om 13:02 heeft Thierry Arbellot het volgende geschreven: > Hello all, > > As you may know, Revolution is not able to open a file if the path > or the filename contains unicode characters. > Then, I've developed an external to work around this problem and > use it in the last version of my shareware Toki TC. > I successfully tested it with Korean characters. > > To complete the test, can someone on the list try with other > languages, that are not western languages, and let me know the > result ? > > What you need: > - a Mac with OS X 10.2 or higher (should work in Mac Intel but not > tested yet) > - download Toki TC from this link http://perso.orange.fr/hal/ > tokitc1.3b1.zip > - a movie with unicode characters in the path and/or the filename > - start Toki TC and open the movie > Toki TC should be able to open the movie, play it and display its > filename in the window title. > > What doesn't work (yet): > - display the name in the "open recent file" menu > - drag and drop the file in the player > > I plan to make a Windows version, and then share the externals with > the community. > > Thank you, > Thierry From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Thu Jul 6 11:28:04 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:28:04 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: Dude - you are SO wrong about Jacque -- she's the most tactful and the most helpful of all of us here. There was NOTHING in her response that wasn't both gentle and professional, and was not personal. And your logic makes no sense to me. You want it easy? Then just learn some programming terms and stop asking for massive changes in the language that aren't going to happen. Many references here are universal among languages and there isn't any other way (EXCEPT A DUMB WAY) to make it like you think you want. I've never heard anyone complain about the TERMS before.. If you brand yourself as an intelligent person, then please stop complaining about this. You can't have it both ways. Perhaps YOU should get a check on your email skills, re-read all the responses and stop being a victim. She won't tell you, but I will. And hire somebody to make your programs for you - with your attitude you'll never get it done. >Jacqueline: > >I think you are using completely the wrong terminology to describe what I >want a program like Revolution to do for me. You use the entirely insulting >phrase "dumbed down" with regard to making Revolution more friendly to a >user like myself. Better polish up those social skills of yours. If >Revolution is so "dumb" already, that it cannot become accessable and >immediately useful to a person such as myself, then it is Revolution that >needs to be "smartened up", making it more accessable and useful, not >"dumbed down" as you so tactlessly have put it. > >Why must an intelligent person be made to twist his organized and fruitful >thinking into something less than that? Why also, must such a person be >forced to address a machine with terms and phrases and sequences that are >alien and unnatural, not catering to the needs of that user, but rather >forcing the user to lower himself to communicate in the primal grunts and >groans that the machine is used to responding to? > >Greg Smith -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From pevensen at siboneylg.com Thu Jul 6 11:32:31 2006 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 10:32:31 -0500 Subject: Reset Locals? In-Reply-To: References: <11F64DCF-DB55-49C4-B3F3-4885B45F93E4@mangomultimedia.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060706103115.02efcab8@exchange.slg.com> I think what Trevor said is if you modify you script to be: local myCheck = "" on mouseUp if myCheck = "" then put 5 into myCheck else put 2 into myCheck answer myCheck end mouseUp (Note the assignment to myCheck in the local declaration) Then you will get the desired result (as you did in 2.6.x) At 11:42 PM 7/5/2006, you wrote: >Recently, Trevor DeVore wrote: > > > script locals are only preserved across script compilation if you > > > > set the preserveVariables to true > > > > Otherwise 2.7 behaves as previous engines. > >Thanks, but this doesn't seem to be the case here (OSX 10.3.9, Rev 2.7.2). > >New stack/button script: > >local myCheck >on mouseUp > if myCheck = "" then > put 5 into myCheck > else put 2 into myCheck > answer myCheck >end mouseUp > >After the first "check", the value of myCheck is consistently 2, even when >the script is edited. Rev says the preserveVariables is false. > >In previous versions (for me), any time the script is edited, the local is >reset. I just checked with 2.6.1 and this is the case. > >The only two reasons I can think of why this might be are 1) it's an OSX >10.3.9 thing (as opposed to 10.4), or it's something the Rev guys are fixing >for 2.7.3. ??? > >(Also, why is the answer dialog so slow to appear in Rev 2.7? 2.6 is way >faster.) > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design >----- >E: scott at tactilemedia.com >W: http://www.tactilemedia.com > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 From jc at spl21.net Thu Jul 6 11:33:54 2006 From: jc at spl21.net (John Craig) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 16:33:54 +0100 Subject: udp: determine local port? Message-ID: <44AD2D62.50404@spl21.net> Is it possible for rev to determine the local port used to send udp data? Thanks, JC From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Thu Jul 6 11:36:50 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:36:50 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: Greg, look at some APL or C source code. Then you might understand why we use Transcript. It doesn't get better than this. I don't see any "grunts or groans" in it. I see an English-like language that most of us can 'get' after a couple of weeks experimenting. The stuff we don't know yet we can look up. A program is nothing more than a list of things to do. Period. That list requires statements. What would you propose this list be comprise of? Pictures? If you can't see that, and that 'technical stuff' is bothering you then perhaps Revolution and programming in general is not for you. sqb >Jacqueline: > >The real question that needs to be answered is, why now, with the tools of >today, like Squeak or Croquet, would I want to resort to "coding" using the >grunts and groans of yesteryear? I'm sorry for those many years you and >others have toiled away trying to master those alien techniques "required" >to make a machine do relatively simple things. I don't have a lot of years >left to start from the point people like you started at many years ago. We >should have come farther by now and should not be satisfied with anything >other than those tools which save us the most time and energy. I made no >insult to any person by suggesting that standard "programming" is the >equivalent of communication using a series of grunts and groans. The fact >that inventors of "modern" computer languages do not see beyond those >methods which have already spent the lives of millions of deskbound slaves >really constitutes the major technological insult. It is the required use >of languages like these that force users like us to become "dumbed down". >Need we submit to this kind of humiliation? > >Greg Smith -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From soapdog at mac.com Thu Jul 6 11:38:54 2006 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:38:54 -0300 Subject: how the internet works : the official explanation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10D6837D-F5DC-4E3B-A2D1-A526B84A8B93@mac.com> Hey Barry, I said that my pigeons were SUPER CLEVER!!!! I know about homing pigeons, but, my pigeons have a disfunctional personality and think they have more then one home... you just go like: OWNER: "now, you're steve, and you home is in cupertino...." PIGEON: "Gurl! Gurl!" OWNER: "repeat my name is steve, my home is in cupertino...." PIGEON: "Gurl! Gurl!" OWNER: "my name, is, steve..." PIGEON: "Gurlpertinoo" OWNER: "Off you go boy!" After the piegon arrives... OWNER: "Okay, good boy, take a pigeon cookie (or whatever pigeon eats)" PIGEON: "Gurlpertino" OWNER: "Now, you're Larry and your home is in california..." PIGEON: "Gurlpertinooo" OWNER: "Larry, in california..." PIGEON: "GOORGLE!!!!" an so on.... man I really should not write emails before coffee. andre On Jul 6, 2006, at 7:22 AM, barryb at libero.it wrote: > The pigeon - airplane metaphore was certainly well contrived by > Andre but care should be taken in copying it literally (n.b. Peter > and Dan). > > Pigeons CANNOT make round trips or even deliver outgoing messages! > If you want one to carry a message you must first take the bird to > the starting point (probably by plane), attach the message and then > send it home (hence the name 'homing pigeon'). > That is: only the owner of the pigeon can receive a message > carried by it and if they try to send OUT a message the bird will > just fly in circles with it around their own house! > > Internet-wise this would be like taking a blank message by hand, or > snailmail, to a friend and waiting for them fill it in and send it > back by email! > > As for the Senators discorse I can only add the Italian Parliament > Member's declaration that "internet should be taught in schools", > whatever that means, anyway most teachers would probably have to > learn from the students! > > "Every Government should carry a Health Warning" > > OK, I'm rambling again. > Thanks for all the kind answers to my first 'ramblings' > Barry > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From iowahengst at mac.com Thu Jul 6 11:49:50 2006 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:49:50 -0500 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <20060706070652.52F8482712E@mail.runrev.com> References: <20060706070652.52F8482712E@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <9BE51DB4-84D7-4C94-8792-5DAFB01EFBA6@mac.com> Hi Greg, A Rev newbie response for you. I played with HyperCard a bit in the mid 90s -- bought several books on scripting in HyperTalk and was able after taking apart the scripts of others build some useable educational games for elementary school kids. By the way, Cosmic Osmo was (is) a HyperCard stack(s). I then moved to HyperStudio because of its cross-platform abilities. Its scripting language (HyperLogo) is based, as you might guess, on Logo. So, it felt awkward to use since it isn't the same language as HyperTalk, but the basic ideas are similar. I bought books and went through the HyperStudio/HyperLogo tutorials. I've developed about 40 projects for elementary aged kids. There also was a very active HyperLogo list serve that was helpful for getting quick answers to questions. I've now been playing with Rev on and off (as time has allowed) for about a year. The transition from Logo to Transcript has been a bit award, but again, the basics are the same as I used before. The catch for you is to get the basics. You're right -- in one sense -- about the tutorial issue. There isn't one handy place to go -- one book to read. However, Dan's book has been mentioned and others have offered places to look. Take advantage of the video tutorials on the Rev website, go through the scripting conferences that are also available on the site. Ask questions on the this list and review the archives. There is a language you need to learn. And, if you're anything like me, there will be a bit of feeling like you've been dropped down in a foreign land where you must learn the language by hearing it and using it. But, for all this to make sense and for you to get an idea of what the "basics" are for your needs, you need a project. You need an audience. How about doing something that got me started? Make something for kids to play with -- I used my kids, but there are plenty around. Or, how about picking your favorite card (spot) in Myst and trying to make it work? -- like how to get over to the clock tower. Or, drag out your copy of Cosmic Osmo and try to duplicate some of its functionality? You'll need to hide and show things, play sounds, define hot spots. I bet mouseEnter, mouseLeave, and play audioClip will be handy. You could likely recreate one of those scenes without defining one variable. But, as you're making the scene, you might think -- how do I know what order the user clicked on the hot spot? Or, maybe you'll want to make sure the user clicks spot xxx before spot zzz. Then, you'll have a reason to store something in a container (variable) to retrieve at another point. Rev is much more powerful than HyperStudio -- and, hence, will take more time to master. But, I don't expect to ever learn it all in Rev. In fact, I won't learn anything else in Rev -- until some project I dream up needs it. Heck, after 7 years of using HyperLogo I didn't know it all there either. But, each project I created helped me learn some new bit of scripting that I hadn't needed before or helped me refine by scripting technique to make things faster or less cumbersome. So enjoy the intellectual and creative opportunities Rev offers and start scripting. Well, enough of my ramblings... take care, randy hengst ----- On Jul 6, 2006, at 2:06 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 18:57:19 -0700 (PDT) > From: GregSmith > Subject: Re: Dependence on Programming Experts > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Message-ID: <5192582.post at talk.nabble.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968 > > > Bj?rnke: > > I didn't specifiy precisely what it is I want to achieve in my last > post > because it was already long enough. I actually have several different > projects in mind that I would, before I die, like to try to > accomplish, but > don't know if they are realistic for one guy, working alone. I > know I can > do the graphics and the basic interactivity, but these projects go > deeper > than that: > > 1. The adventure game "kit" to end them all. I don't play many > games, and > the only ones I found to be engaging were the ancient ones like > King's Quest > and Myst. King's Quest, because it was cheerful, pleasant, encouraged > thinking and had some mystery - and, best of all, it was full of > fantasy - > and bloodless, for the most part. Myst, because it took you to > large empty > places and let you look around, all over the place, solve moderately > difficult puzzles, read a story and . . . look all over the > place . . . > and hear strange sounds and music. Pretty mindless, but it kept > you going > and was a good sequel to Cosmic Osmo, which I also liked a lot. From iowahengst at mac.com Thu Jul 6 11:50:50 2006 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:50:50 -0500 Subject: Reset Locals? In-Reply-To: <20060706070652.52F8482712E@mail.runrev.com> References: <20060706070652.52F8482712E@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <5F6F4C25-C732-4CE0-94A5-A9504CECCF2D@mac.com> Scott The script works as you expect on OSX 10.4.2 with Studio 2.7.2. New stack, new button your script = 5 the first time and then 2..... Copy the button and click the copy, 5 the first time and then 2..... BTW, the answer box doesn't appear to be delayed in showing itself either. take care, randy hengst ------ On Jul 6, 2006, at 2:06 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:42:14 -0700 > From: Scott Rossi > Subject: Re: Reset Locals? > To: How to use Revolution > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Recently, Trevor DeVore wrote: > > >> script locals are only preserved across script compilation if you >> set the preserveVariables to true >> Otherwise 2.7 behaves as previous engines. > > Thanks, but this doesn't seem to be the case here (OSX 10.3.9, Rev > 2.7.2). > > New stack/button script: > > local myCheck > on mouseUp > if myCheck = "" then > put 5 into myCheck > else put 2 into myCheck > answer myCheck > end mouseUp > > After the first "check", the value of myCheck is consistently 2, > even when > the script is edited. Rev says the preserveVariables is false. > > In previous versions (for me), any time the script is edited, the > local is > reset. I just checked with 2.6.1 and this is the case. > > The only two reasons I can think of why this might be are 1) it's > an OSX > 10.3.9 thing (as opposed to 10.4), or it's something the Rev guys > are fixing > for 2.7.3. ??? > > (Also, why is the answer dialog so slow to appear in Rev 2.7? 2.6 > is way > faster.) > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jul 6 11:57:04 2006 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 10:57:04 -0500 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <44AD32D0.2070706@hyperactivesw.com> Greg, My sincere apologies for an unfortunately worded post. I should have phrased it better so that you didn't take my remarks personally. By "dumbed down" I meant that to accomplish what you are asking, Revolution's feature set would have to be drastically reduced -- i.e., "dumber". Revolution does provide quite a few libraries when it ships that actually attempt to consolidate hundreds of lines of scripting into a few single commands. There are pre-written libraries for internet access, for databases, for geometry management, and so forth. They aren't point-and-click though, you still have to use scripting to work with them. A point and click interface could be built with Revolution, actually. But it would provide only a small subset of what is available in the engine natively. If you continue to read this list, I think you'll find that I have a reputation as one of the least offensive people here. I've been at this a long time, so if I've slipped up and unintentionally insulted you, I am very sorry. Revolution users are by no means dumb. I was refering to the software, not the users. Having followed this thread now for a few days, my personal opinion is that Revolution isn't really what you are looking for. It is a programming environment, and there isn't really any way to get around that. It is the easiest and most accessible environment I know of, but it does require a learning curve. It doesn't sound like this is what you are looking for. GregSmith wrote: > Jacqueline: > > I think you are using completely the wrong terminology to describe what I > want a program like Revolution to do for me. You use the entirely insulting > phrase "dumbed down" with regard to making Revolution more friendly to a > user like myself. Better polish up those social skills of yours. If > Revolution is so "dumb" already, that it cannot become accessable and > immediately useful to a person such as myself, then it is Revolution that > needs to be "smartened up", making it more accessable and useful, not > "dumbed down" as you so tactlessly have put it. > > Why must an intelligent person be made to twist his organized and fruitful > thinking into something less than that? Why also, must such a person be > forced to address a machine with terms and phrases and sequences that are > alien and unnatural, not catering to the needs of that user, but rather > forcing the user to lower himself to communicate in the primal grunts and > groans that the machine is used to responding to? > > Greg Smith -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From soapdog at mac.com Thu Jul 6 11:59:06 2006 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:59:06 -0300 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <6E60D2C7-E348-4E9B-8950-0DFCD33F94FD@mac.com> Greg, before we all get moded.... Greg, I said this three times, I was one of the first to ever answer to this thread and nobody seems to take notice... Think simply, Flash, photoshop and the like are end user tools. Revolution is a programming language, so programming skills are desired or acquired along the way. I've coded in dozens of languages, I could be called a language junky is this thing is ever existant. Revolution is by far the most easy of the languages out there. I too coded in Squeak but Rev still easier. The object oriented paradigm looks marvelous in theory but so one besides smalltalk ever managed to implement it in a good maner. And objects don't appear out of nowhere, you still need to code them. There's a very good book by Dan Shafer, you can buy it on eBook format, that will teach you what revolution is all about. Rev is a programming language, there's no way you'll ever do something without programming. The desire to learn should be greater than the desire to change. One cannot change something without learning it first. Please don't talk about groans and grunts. You're using a computer not talking to a human, it's not grunts and groans, it's just a way that the computer will be able to understand and yet not too hard. Also your complaints about the "dumb down" parlance, thats common computer jargon, it's not aimed at you, thats just what everyone calls when it needs to strip out complex features. I don't understand why you're with a computer programming language in a computer programming list, full of supporters, every single one trying to help you and yet, you complain and don't even try the solutions posted. andre From brucegregory at earthlink.net Thu Jul 6 12:07:55 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <5202649.post@talk.nabble.com> I'll just repeat what I initially stated: I think multimedia authoring software should be intuitive enough, and well documented enough to allow a fairly non-technical user to do amazing things without constantly needing to ask assistance from local forum gurus. The foundational educational material for learning Revolution from the standpoint of a total non-programmer seems to be missing. That's the gist of my own personal dilemma. I do appreciate most of your replies, but having to go through this kind of verbal ordeal in order to learn a thing is precisely the reason I don't want to use a forum as a learning tool or depend upon the reactions of the local gurus. I want to learn alone. The resources which would allow me to do this from the ground up, using Transcript and Revolution, as a single tool, do not exist. Thank you, Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5202649 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From rcozens at pon.net Thu Jul 6 12:09:50 2006 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:09:50 -0700 Subject: Reset Locals? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Scott, >I'm still curious though... I seem to remember seeing this on the list many >many moons ago: is there a way to access the local variables of a script >from outside the script? Something like: > > get the myCoolVar of script of btn 2 > >Was I dreaming or is this possible? It's quite simple: just add a getLocal function and a setLocat command to the script where the local is declared: local myCoolVar function getMy CoolVar return myCoolVar end getMyCoolVar on setMyCoolVar newValue put newValue into myCoolVar end setMyCoolVar From elsewhere in the stack: send "setMyCoolVar"&&newValue to controlWithScript -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rodneys at io.com Thu Jul 6 12:23:08 2006 From: rodneys at io.com (Rodney Somerstein) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:23:08 -0400 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5194878.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607060002p2e460c39gd7c0476e4baa0e68@mail.gmail.com> <5194878.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: >Dan & Rodney: > >O.K., now, just as I was salivating over the potential usefulness and joy of >using Squeak, Rodney comes along and throws water all over me. Which is it? >Who is right? I haven't yet had time to look at the actual Squeak language, >but I did see that incredibly direct and simple "kids" example of using >Squeak over at SqueakLand, or is it SmallTalkLand? EToys. And then there >is the integration of all the functionality that the Alice environment >offered, brought over into SqueakLand, or whatever it is called. Is it all >too good to be really true? > >My initial impressions of this environment were that it teaches new users, >even kids, to apprehend, to comprehend the concepts involved in programming, >so that, after those things are grasped, then the cryptic programming >terminology can be introduced which, if those are introduced first, confuses >the heck out of anyone wanting to learn to program. Even if a programming >language is English-like, what is needed beyond and prior to learning lines >of "code" is really understanding sequences of events and why they need to >be in the order that they need to be in to get the machine to respond >properly. Right? > Greg, Smalltalk and the Squeak implementation in particular are good first programming languages. However, Smalltalk tends to be very specialized and it is hard to produce an application that you can give to other people to install. If you just want to learn and have something you can play with, then Squeak isn't a bad choice. As Dan stated, though, it is hard to produce applications that you can then deploy elsewhere. The main problem, in my view, is that Smalltalk environments are pretty much unlike anything else you will encounter on your computer. Yes, you can learn programming concepts. But, you will then likely end up learning another language afterward to produce usable software. Unfortunate, but that is the current state of the art. As Smalltalk has been around for a long time, that is unlikely to change anytime in the near future. Programming itself is actually pretty easy. You just have to take small steps. Understand that you won't sit down and in one night understand how to do everything. If you work through tutorials in your chosen environment, you will learn basic concepts in pretty much any language you choose. After awhile, you will be able to combine those concepts to create very involved applications. Programming is only hard if you look at it as a whole. The pieces are generally easy. The terminology, which you rightly complained about, comes along with that learning. -Rodney From smith.sgt at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 12:27:16 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:27:16 -0400 Subject: hilitedLine In-Reply-To: <000a01c6a100$05e84d60$6801a8c0@laptop> References: <000a01c6a100$05e84d60$6801a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: I think it would suffice to set the focus somewhere else when the card opens...do you need it to be focused? On 7/6/06, Preston Shea wrote: > How do I cancel the hilight in a list box so that when the card opens no line is selected? Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jul 6 12:27:22 2006 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:27:22 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts Message-ID: <44AD39EA.3090908@fourthworld.com> GregSmith wrote: > I think multimedia authoring software should be intuitive enough, and well > documented enough to allow a fairly non-technical user to do amazing things > without constantly needing to ask assistance from local forum gurus. If you keep looking you might find the multimedia authoring software you're looking for. But if you're looking for a programming environment you'll get tired of running into the walls of such point-and-click tools pretty quickly. > I want to learn alone. FWIW, I've not known anyone one who's learned any programming language without some contact with others. I'm sure it could be done, but less easily. Given the inherent imperfections of this planet you will at least encounter anomalies, and others who've dealt with them before can share solutions for those quickly. And there are at least a million other reasons why sharing knowledge in a community is worthwhile. The second thing I do when I'm learning a new language (after reviewing the token set) is signing on to the language's main mailing list. While much of the task of programming may be solitary, I believe most of the learning of programming is inherently a social activity. Programming is such a big, flexible world, I've seen no book that could come close to what a good community can do for one's learning, and there seems something magical about programming that generally attracts personalities who are prone to sharing..... -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal _______________________________________________________ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com From cmsheffield at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 12:31:19 2006 From: cmsheffield at gmail.com (Chris Sheffield) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:31:19 -0600 Subject: hilitedLine In-Reply-To: <000a01c6a100$05e84d60$6801a8c0@laptop> References: <000a01c6a100$05e84d60$6801a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <38A5FD0B-2B5B-4A99-8867-235E6AA47332@gmail.com> Preston, Don't know if you've found the answer yet or not, but it's actually quite easy. set the hilitedLine of fld "myField" to empty I would recommend placing this in your preOpenCard handler. Have fun, Chris On Jul 6, 2006, at 7:28 AM, Preston Shea wrote: > How do I cancel the hilight in a list box so that when the card > opens no line is selected? Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ------------------------------------------ Chris Sheffield Read Naturally The Fluency Company http://www.readnaturally.com ------------------------------------------ From soapdog at mac.com Thu Jul 6 12:33:06 2006 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:33:06 -0300 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5202649.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <5202649.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1B3305A4-3F70-46D6-947B-F85BDFCCE3DC@mac.com> Greg, If you click on "Documentation" And select "Getting Started" you'll see: Quick Start, Sample Projects, Using Objects, Sample Scripts, Using Scripts and In Depth. All those links include photos, text and video aimed to teach you. Besides that, you have Dan Shafer Book which is a very good resource for learning. You also have all the internet sites made by us to help xTalkers out there. Revolution Media comes with templates that you can inspect. RevOnline has dozens of users submiting projects easy to follow that will help anyone. The Rev Forum is full of topics and people do answer. This list is been in use since forever and people here help each other. No one is an island. You have books, documentation, shots, sites, fora, lists, even chat in case you wanted to talk with us!!!! What more do you want???? Revolution is not Multimedia Authoring Software like Flash! Revolution is a computer language that can also be used for multimedia, and for a lot of other things too. I for one, use it for networking apps. Others here use it for Information management and some for multimedia... Revolution is a complete computer language. You said that Rev should enable "fairly non-technical user to do amazing things", I am pretty young here but I've seen many come as newbies and in very short time produce amazing stacks. Everytime I see that, it makes me smile... I think you're bluring the line between very complex softwares like Flash and Rev. Please check: About Rev http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runtime_Revolution About Flash http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Flash On Jul 6, 2006, at 1:07 PM, GregSmith wrote: > > I'll just repeat what I initially stated: > > I think multimedia authoring software should be intuitive enough, > and well > documented enough to allow a fairly non-technical user to do > amazing things > without constantly needing to ask assistance from local forum gurus. > > The foundational educational material for learning Revolution from the > standpoint of a total non-programmer seems to be missing. That's > the gist > of my own personal dilemma. > > I do appreciate most of your replies, but having to go through this > kind of > verbal ordeal in order to learn a thing is precisely the reason I > don't want > to use a forum as a learning tool or depend upon the reactions of > the local > gurus. I want to learn alone. The resources which would allow me > to do > this from the ground up, using Transcript and Revolution, as a > single tool, > do not exist. > > Thank you, > > Greg Smith > -- > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on- > Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5202649 > Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From viktoras at ekoinf.net Thu Jul 6 12:43:03 2006 From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (Viktoras Didziulis) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:43:03 +0300 (FLE Standard Time) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts References: <2d27b0df9a8177cd4e8c4f69ad69fa57@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <44AD3D97.000007.01732@MAZYTIS> Hi all! That's a blog-like post on several related threads in this discussion. I hope it still makes some sense :-) Indeed, why can't we accept the fact, that there are no modern and outdated programming tools, but there are different tools for different tasks, and as well as everywhere - fashions, leaders and marginals. In real life one requires Assembly to code a device, driver, or implement timely feedback in life support system, nuclear reactor control system or drive a spacecraft. Although some folks out there claim that Assembly (and whatever else comes to their mind) is dead. However no single tool is ever enough for any serious development. Like when you need to clean a room you would rather use a vacuum cleaner, not a toothbrush. Or how do you like vacuum-cleaning your tooth ;-) Therefore many interpreted languages and tools like Transcript/Metacard/Revolution, have been initially created as gluing languages to minimize programming efforts and make a better use of resources written in any of the compiled high performance languages. So now the programmer can write just a tiny portion of code in low level, an then switch to higher for the rest of it. In my [1 cent worth if at all] opinion the strongest sides of the Revolution RAD in comparison with tools like Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk, Ruby or Visual Basic is not it's natural syntax, but multi-platform compatibility plus GUI oriented approach. So we can start writing eye-candy apps easily what increases motivation as results are visible at once. Regarding the syntax of the Transcript I would think one can get used to any syntax if he needs the job to get done. Once you learn it by doing, master it, syntax does not matter anymore. For example Perl is the language I was used to, so in this regard my work with transcript is slower until I get used to the new tool. But at least I can create nice-looking GUIs in a matter of minutes :-). There also are other people out there that are used to Assembly so much that they created entire operating system with it (Menuet OS project). So what's outdated ?.. Though you really really need to learn by doing - laymen's approach just does not work at all. It only then becomes intuitive like many other things like riding a bicycle, swimming, learning a foreign language or rapid typing techniques. Innitially all these activities may seem counter-intuitive and very unnatural. While in fact there is no such thing as counter-intuitiveness but maybe just a lack of motivation... Well, learning takes time. To master something new - the first foreign language, the first programming language, starting own business for the first time, as Japanese proverb says "one needs to sit 3 years on the rock to get it warm". Then it may take as long as 10 years or infinity until one starts creating masterpieces :-). But if one is already experienced in the field by speaking a language or creating programs, then it takes just a fraction of time to apply same principles over different "syntax". Revolution studio is really one of the best programing environments I have used taking into account that it is also multiplatform because it 1) operates on multiple OSes and is easy to code 2) allows easy creation of GUIs 3) can deploy multiplatform standalones within a single file But, as everything, it also has its weak sides: 1) lack of a printed manual covering at least basics in all aspects of Revolution and Transcript. Dan's book is really helpful to start with (thanks Dan !), but then it ends in the middle of the story :-(. I would rather expect manuals coming in 2 books - one, starter kit, in the style of teach yourself in 24 hours" SAMS publishing series on programing and the other very detailed reference like Oreily series of programming. This would also attract many customers as coverage of these publishing houses is global indeed - many books of theirs get translated into Russian and other major languages. Currently many people do not know about Revolution just because they haven't seen SAMS or Oreily book on it in their libraries. 2) delayed support for Linux... 3) some things like table field still need to be improved to act by default (without external modules) as users would expect it from their experience in spreadsheet programs. Like when you hit enter, cursor moves to the field below, not a new line. Or when you press backspace it starts deleting contents of all the cells to the left - this should be limited to a single cell. 4) limited speed - normal for interpreted languages, but this has to be compensated by convenient and flexible "gluing" features which I think are quite good in Rev. And finally what if Rev studio could become a RAD not just for Transcript, but also for Perl, Python, Ruby, Tcl? I guess it would gain much larger market share - just like Active State tools on steroids. This should not be impossibly complex as GUIs for these languages are all based on Tk widgets (Perl/Tk, Python/Tk, Ruby/Tk, Tcl/Tk), their interpreters as well as Tk are free, and nearly all have possibility to pack an interpreter, script and resources into a standalone program for all major OS'es. Or maybe there are an ongoing initiatives towards this already ?.. All the best! Viktoras -------Original Message------- From: Francis Nugent Dixon Date: 07/06/06 15:37:47 To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Dependence on Programming Experts Hi from Paris, I carefully followed the discussion, and for some strange reason, the words of an old song floated through my brain . It is a conversation between a clown and a magician (no insult intended to anybody who contributed to this thread).... Extract from Tarot Suite - Mike Batt - 1979 ......... We both are right, said the sorcerer And both of us are wrong For though we walk this road We don't know where it leads We only know it's long You have something to learn from me And I can learn from you You with your jokes and simple plans And me with my tricks and sleight of hand Together we could get through Imbecile, we are dancing down a darkened road, Though the stars are out, not one of us knows the way. Imbeciles up ahead of us and millions more behind And we're laughing and smiling, That's why I say - we're all of us Imbeciles ! Sorry to throw the proverbial spanner ..... -Francis _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Jul 6 12:47:17 2006 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 18:47:17 +0200 Subject: hilitedLine In-Reply-To: References: <000a01c6a100$05e84d60$6801a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <0F47EFF0-F91C-498D-BC07-15FD025DD948@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Jared, Chris' solution won't work on Mac OS X. I don't know about other platforms. The following works for me: on preopenCard set the hilitedlines of fld 1 to 0 set the traversalon of fld 1 to false end preopenCard on openCard set the traversalon of fld 1 to true end openCard Best, Mark -- Economy-x-Talk Consultancy and Software Engineering http://economy-x-talk.com http://www.salery.biz Download ErrorLib at http://economy-x-talk.com/developers.html and get full control of error handling in Revolution. Op 6-jul-2006, om 18:27 heeft Jared Smith het volgende geschreven: > I think it would suffice to set the focus somewhere else when the card > opens...do you need it to be focused? From devin_asay at byu.edu Thu Jul 6 12:47:15 2006 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:47:15 -0600 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5202649.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <5202649.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <8DA115C7-4690-4AE2-B23D-BAF9C0D5AD2A@byu.edu> On Jul 6, 2006, at 10:07 AM, GregSmith wrote: > > I'll just repeat what I initially stated: > > I think multimedia authoring software should be intuitive enough, > and well > documented enough to allow a fairly non-technical user to do > amazing things > without constantly needing to ask assistance from local forum gurus. > > The foundational educational material for learning Revolution from the > standpoint of a total non-programmer seems to be missing. That's > the gist > of my own personal dilemma. Greg, have a look at my site at http://revolution.byu.edu. These are the tutorial materials that we use here at BYU to teach Revolution to non-techie humanities majors. Click the "Revolution Tutorials by Topic" link. If you follow the links roughly in the order they are presented on that page you will get a step-by-step introduction to Revolution. HTH Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jul 6 13:07:25 2006 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 10:07:25 -0700 Subject: Reset Locals? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060706103115.02efcab8@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: Recently, Peter T. Evensen wrote: > I think what Trevor said is if you modify you script to be: > > local myCheck = "" > on mouseUp > if myCheck = "" then > put 5 into myCheck > else put 2 into myCheck > answer myCheck > end mouseUp > > (Note the assignment to myCheck in the local declaration) Then you will > get the desired result (as you did in 2.6.x) Thanks Peter -- the above does indeed work for me. And after re-reading the What'sNew docs, they do state that locals must now be explicitly set to some value, as opposed to simply declared. Thanks to the folks who chimed in as well regarding the access of a script's local values. :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jul 6 13:34:49 2006 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:34:49 -0700 Subject: MS-SQL Database problem In-Reply-To: <078678B5-6E5B-4E5D-B37A-A96D79801DCE@dmp-int.com> References: <078678B5-6E5B-4E5D-B37A-A96D79801DCE@dmp-int.com> Message-ID: <1886460519.20060706103449@ahsoftware.net> Ton- Monday, July 3, 2006, 9:37:30 AM, you wrote: > Hi, fellow Revolutionaires... > I have a strange problem: > I'm using RR 2.7.2 Enterprise on OS X 10.4.7 > I'm connecting to a SQL Server through an ODBC connection, no problem > so far. > When I retrieve data from the SQL Server, all fields come over just > fine, except DateTime fields... > There are 2 of these fields, each containing a value like "28-06-2006 > 00:00" > When I use the code below to get the data, the value I get for the > date is truncated and changed to "2006-06-"... DateTime formats on SQLServer are IMO a bit weird, and I've run into conversion problems with them before, too. Not just in rev. I believe SQLServer by default uses MDY encoding, which might explain why it's stopping when it gets to trying to convert the 28th month. You can issue a DATEFORMAT command to SQLServer on a per-connection basis to change this, no matter what format the dates are stored in: SET DATEFORMAT DMY -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From FlexibleLearning at aol.com Thu Jul 6 13:57:47 2006 From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:57:47 EDT Subject: hilitedLine Message-ID: <53f.2955a30.31dea91b@aol.com> > How do I cancel the hilight in a list box so that when the card opens no line is selected? Set the hilitedLines of fld "MyListFld" to 0 /H From bobwarren at howsoft.com Thu Jul 6 14:07:18 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 15:07:18 -0300 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <44AD5156.9020806@howsoft.com> The Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" doesn't exist. I'd like to suggest it, but perhaps under the more practical heading of "Currently approved Linux distros" for use with the Runtime Revolution programming system. There are hundreds of Linux distros out there, all at different stages of development, and with slightly different characteristics - particularly in the details of the file system. In my view, such a situation is perfectly natural and normal, and it is just a question of time before commonly-agreed standards and greater uniformity arise. We all remember what cars looked like a few years ago. You could, for example, tell an American car a mile off, and nobody could ever mistake it for an English Minicar, a German Beetle, or one of those French cars that looked like a baby's inverted pram. Nowadays, because of a natural process of optimization and other factors, it is very difficult at first glance to identify whether a car is American, Japanese, European, or whatever. From a programming point of view, the current situation is very intimidating, not only for Runtime Revolution, but also for anyone hoping to program in Rev for Linux generally rather than for a particular distro. However, the first great hurdle has been overcome by Rev: the IDE runs successfully on just about any distro you can find, whether installed on the HD, or running on a ramdisk using a Live CD. Heck, it runs beautifully even on Puppy Linux! However, what we need to evaluate as Rev programmers is whether any particular distro is worth supporting at all in its current state, and whether the peculiar characteristics of its file system are worth catering for in terms of time and energy devoted to our programming efforts. A great way of evaluating a considerable number of the distros out there is to adopt the hobby of collecting live CDs. You just pop them in your drive, boot up your machine, and Bob's your uncle. Of course, if you have some kind of Linux already installed on your HD then this is a help, since a lot of Linuxes running in RAM make use of the HD's swap partition if one is available, but this is normally not essential, and I have never tried a live CD and had any kind of subsequent trouble with my Windows as a result of accidental interference with the HD. For anyone interested in trying out Linux together with Rev, there is a great list of live CDs at http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php which can be downloaded and burned. So what criteria should be used for selecting "Rev approved" Linux distros? I suggest the following stringent list: 1. The distro runs or installs automatically (i.e. can be done by a layman) and configures all normal hardware, even on old machines, including Windows network printers, floppy diskette drives, etc. 2. The distro plays all normal files (AVI, MP3, BMP, PDF, DOC, - i.e. common Linux AND Windows files) automatically "out of the box". By this, when the file is clicked or double clicked, it is already associated with an appropriate utility to play or show it, and the program doesn't break or lack codecs, etc. 3. The Rev IDE (and consequently Rev standalones!) runs OK and looks good. Applying the above at this very moment, out of the 300 or so distros available, no more than a few are left. (I don't know the number exactly, because I haven't tried out anything like all the distros. Perhaps you can help with this evaluation.) And there are some surprises. I have always been a great fan of Ubuntu, and apart from its wonderful social philosophy, I think it shows the greatest potential of all the Linuxes, but at the moment it fails dismally over criterion #2. Red Hat Linux, one of the original most famous distros, supported indirectly by Rev in that they give special attention to "RPM" packaging, is such a big flop over criteria #1 and #2 that you might not even get as far as evaluating #3. Their new Fedora Linux - which looks like a copy of Ubuntu, except that it uses their own RPM packaging - is not much better, at least not on my old Pentium II with a very simple hardware configuration. In my limited experience, the only distros which roughly fulfill criteria #1-3 above are: a) Puppy Linux (!!) b) Linspire c) Kurumin (Brazilian Linux, an improved Knoppix) The case of MEPIS is rather tragic. It fulfills criteria #1-3 very well, but unlike the other Linuxes, Rev looks really crappy in it. The Rev font set (which appears to be independent of the system fonts chosen for the OS) is all small and spidery. Of course, other Linux users/experimenters are likely to disagree with my own subjective selection, and naturally the exact files for testing under criterion #2 is a thing which needs to be agreed upon. At this very moment I would have the tendency to suggest the following in relation to Rev's "seal of approval": I. Since Ubuntu is one of the most stable and popular distros out there, and it has a magnificent philosophy, I would "hang fire" on a Rev seal of approval until such time as criterion #2 is adequately fulfilled, hopefully in the next release ("Edgy Eft", due in 6 months or so). II. Try to define a SINGLE alternative distro for a Rev seal of approval. I therefore ask for your help in telling me what the best Linux distro is in your experience (approximating criteria #1-3 as defined), preferably one which can be tried from a live CD, and also what you think the most crucial file types for out-of-the-box playing are under criterion #2. Thereafter, at least theoretically, attention could be better focused on the peculiarities of the file systems involved and what recommendations could be made in obtaining fundamental system info through Rev (such as how to implement the specialFolder Path functions, where to find the fstab file - if indeed there is one - giving info about the floppy disk's existence, and so on). Regards to all, Bob From rodneys at io.com Thu Jul 6 14:30:41 2006 From: rodneys at io.com (Rodney Somerstein) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:30:41 -0400 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: Greg Smith wrote: >You really haven't thoroughly read what I have written. I have stated that >I am not opposed to learning to program, but, rather, opposed to having to >learn the skills with inadequate foundational learning material. I did overlook this in your original posts. I agree that Revolution is lacking in the documentation department. It has a lot of documentation for people who are familiar with the environment, but not for those just getting started. Rev really needs a good tutorial that goes beyond just the basics that it covers now. >I'm not asking for a tool that does everything for me. I'm asking for a >computer language that lets me translate my organized thoughts and >imagination into useful bits that, when assembled together, form working >components of a total working system. And, it would be helpful if, along >with such a language, came an insightful translation of the equivalent of >words, phrases, sentences, paragraphs and finally, whole stories - >especially if the language claims to be English-like. If English is the >analogy, then the analogy needs to be explained, piece by piece, concept by >concept. Maybe this is what does not exist. Again, this kind of material is lacking for Revolution. To a large extent, it is missing for pretty much every programming language in existence. Revolution may actually come closer than most languages and environments to doing what you want. It is missing the in-depth tutorial material. What Rev might need is an equivalent of the "... For Dummies" series of books. (I hate the title, but the series has some good books.) It needs something that starts from the ground up, assuming no prior programming knowledge, that holds a new users hand in learning all of the basic features of the language and environment. What currently exists in Rev can be somewhat overwhelming for the new user. This is easy to forget for people who have struggled through it already and are now using the software productively. A lot of those folks were aided by having used HyperCard or some other xTalk environment in the past. Rev, like any other programming language, does have some concepts that don't have direct analogs in a spoken language. You need a way to tell the computer what to do in detail. It simply can't understand what you want without that detail, the way people can when you speak to them. The real problem in that translation between human speech and programming is that the two are not equivalent. When you tell a person to do something, they understand what you mean. A computer has to be told not only what to do, but how to do it - step by detailed step. I am not an expert on Rev myself. I've been hanging out here for a few years, playing with the software and reading messages on the mailing list. Since I just play around, I keep debating whether or not I want to keep renewing my license each year. I find the software and the mailing lists to be fun, creative environments and keep renewing so far. In another couple of months I have to make that decision again. I'm not sure whether I'll go with it or not this time. But, Rev is, even given all the work it takes to get going, still one of easiest, most productive programming environments you are likely to encounter. If Runtime Revolution keep working to improve the user experience, it might eventually get closer to what you want. I still think it is probably the closest that you will find. -Rodney From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Thu Jul 6 09:48:31 2006 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:48:31 -0400 Subject: Can't enter anything with the keyboard In-Reply-To: <177BF418-21C2-4FB9-B74B-61064FFEC345@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: It only happens right after I print. So I will try to find what the print dialogue is opening to cause this (a hidden modal print dialogue). It also only started after I started using a new HP printer. On 7/6/06 12:59 AM, "Scott Morrow" wrote: > Bill, > A variation on Jacqueline's post, is a situation that puzzled me in > version 2.5 - though I think was "fixed" in version 2.6. Under OSX, > if a dialog was called as a sheet AND an open window was hidden off- > screen then the sheet could appear on the off screen window... > sometimes causing an effect similar to the one you are describing. > > -Scott Morrow > > Elementary Software > (Now with 20% less chalk dust !) > web http://elementarysoftware.com/ > email scott at elementarysoftware.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Jul 5, 2006, at 4:47 PM, Bill wrote: > >> I have a new bug or error which makes it so I can't type in any field >> including the property inspector or the message box after I print a >> card to >> my HP laserjet 1320. >> >> In order to get out of the locked effect I either have to close and >> restart >> runrev or sometimes close just one of the stacks I'm working on. >> >> Has anyone seen this? When you try to enter text anywhere even >> control m to >> bring up the message box (you can use the mouse and the menus) it >> will beep. >> >> There is no error window or palettes open. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution | | | )_) )_) )_) )___))___))___)\ )____)____)_____)\\ _____|____|____|____\\\__ -------\ /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ ^^^^ ^^^ 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190 fax: (787) 809-8426 Blue Water Maritime P.O. Box 91 Puerto Real, PR 00740 From rodneys at io.com Thu Jul 6 14:40:24 2006 From: rodneys at io.com (Rodney Somerstein) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:40:24 -0400 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5195760.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607060118v5366e4ecs65461b85dd000768@mail.gmail.com> <5195760.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: >Thank you for your many replies to my questions. I'll try to take your word >regarding your programming language recommendation, but I really don't yet >understand why you or Rodney feel this way. Object orientation has always >made complete sense to me - the encapsulation of very small functions and >their assembly into larger components. Traditional programming describes a >sequence of events, detail by detail instead of an assemblage of simple >parts. This seems counter-intuitive to me. As I understand it, Transcript >is not object oriented. It may have syntax that resembles English, but the >construction of systems is what I am aiming at and it seems natural to >define a system in terms of itty bitty parts that combine together to make >bigger and more complex things. Think of the Model T car. Pretty useful, >but really not all that complex considering it is made up of merely 300 >fairly simple parts. Looked at a part at a time, creating a Model T seems >quite within practical limits. Greg, I agree that it would be nice if Revolution was truly object oriented. Right now, it is "kind of" object oriented. It uses many concepts from OOP (object oriented programming), but doesn't go all the way to including ideas such as inheritance. So, you can take all of those itty bitty parts and combine them together the way that you think. What you can't do is easily define a new kind of part and have it inherit all of the capabilities of some other part. So, if you need a new widget that does things slightly differently than some other widget, you can use some of your previous work, but you essentially end up having to rewrite your new widget from the beginning. In a true OOP you could simply start with the original widget and make the few changes that you needed. Due to its English-like syntax, Revolution, the language (previously called Transcript) is easier for many people to work with than the other more foreign seeming languages. Given the fact that you can graphically define the pieces that you are putting together and then fill in the details (scripts), it is an easy way to get started. Were you to go to another language, such as say, Python, you might get a fully object oriented language, but you would then have to start at an even lower foundational level. In most languages, you have to learn to do everything with just text first. Then you start learning to use graphics. Here, you can use either text or graphics pretty interchangeably. That is a big part of what makes Rev easy to use. Combine that with the fact that you can simply add new parts as you go along and test immediately and you have a really dynamic environment to work in. -Rodney From viktoras at ekoinf.net Thu Jul 6 14:47:34 2006 From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (Viktoras Didziulis) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 21:47:34 +0300 (FLE Standard Time) Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" References: <44AD5156.9020806@howsoft.com> Message-ID: <44AD5AC6.000001.01868@MAZYTIS> Hi Bob, I personally have Ubuntu linux (Debian family) installed on my laptop PC and PC as the second OS. Really happy with this. Earlier have tried Fedora Core, but this one used to have some annoyances with laptops and multimedia. Then switched to Scientific Linux, multimedia was OK, still the main annoyance was corrupted RPM and updating system due to the bug in Red Hat family Linuxes. They likely got fixed this now, but as I have already switched to Ubuntu - not going back to Red Hat ;-). Regarding the criterions I would suggest taking compliance with LSB 3.1 standard as the main criteria because that's what all the standard is for... All serious Linuxes should implement this standard. Linuxes that are closiest to the imlementation of the LSB 3.1 are: Xandros, Red Hat, Novel, Ubuntu. Also Debian Common Core (DCC) Alliance - this means all Linuxes based on the stable Debian 3.1 (Sarge) are aiming at LSB 3.1. The DCC includes Knoppix, LinEx, Linspire, etc... Viktoras -------Original Message------- From: Bob Warren Date: 07/06/06 21:07:36 To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" The Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" doesn't exist. I'd like to suggest it, but perhaps under the more practical heading of "Currently approved Linux distros" for use with the Runtime Revolution programming system. There are hundreds of Linux distros out there, all at different stages of development, and with slightly different characteristics - particularly in the details of the file system. In my view, such a situation is perfectly natural and normal, and it is just a question of time before commonly-agreed standards and greater uniformity arise. We all remember what cars looked like a few years ago. You could, for example, tell an American car a mile off, and nobody could ever mistake it for an English Minicar, a German Beetle, or one of those French cars that looked like a baby's inverted pram. Nowadays, because of a natural process of optimization and other factors, it is very difficult at first glance to identify whether a car is American, Japanese, European, or whatever. >From a programming point of view, the current situation is very intimidating, not only for Runtime Revolution, but also for anyone hoping to program in Rev for Linux generally rather than for a particular distro. However, the first great hurdle has been overcome by Rev: the IDE runs successfully on just about any distro you can find, whether installed on the HD, or running on a ramdisk using a Live CD. Heck, it runs beautifully even on Puppy Linux! However, what we need to evaluate as Rev programmers is whether any particular distro is worth supporting at all in its current state, and whether the peculiar characteristics of its file system are worth catering for in terms of time and energy devoted to our programming efforts. A great way of evaluating a considerable number of the distros out there is to adopt the hobby of collecting live CDs. You just pop them in your drive, boot up your machine, and Bob's your uncle. Of course, if you have some kind of Linux already installed on your HD then this is a help, since a lot of Linuxes running in RAM make use of the HD's swap partition if one is available, but this is normally not essential, and I have never tried a live CD and had any kind of subsequent trouble with my Windows as a result of accidental interference with the HD. For anyone interested in trying out Linux together with Rev, there is a great list of live CDs at http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php which can be downloaded and burned. So what criteria should be used for selecting "Rev approved" Linux distros? I suggest the following stringent list: 1. The distro runs or installs automatically (i.e. can be done by a layman) and configures all normal hardware, even on old machines, including Windows network printers, floppy diskette drives, etc. 2. The distro plays all normal files (AVI, MP3, BMP, PDF, DOC, - i.e. common Linux AND Windows files) automatically "out of the box". By this, when the file is clicked or double clicked, it is already associated with an appropriate utility to play or show it, and the program doesn't break or lack codecs, etc. 3. The Rev IDE (and consequently Rev standalones!) runs OK and looks good. Applying the above at this very moment, out of the 300 or so distros available, no more than a few are left. (I don't know the number exactly, because I haven't tried out anything like all the distros. Perhaps you can help with this evaluation.) And there are some surprises. I have always been a great fan of Ubuntu, and apart from its wonderful social philosophy, I think it shows the greatest potential of all the Linuxes, but at the moment it fails dismally over criterion #2. Red Hat Linux, one of the original most famous distros, supported indirectly by Rev in that they give special attention to "RPM" packaging, is such a big flop over criteria #1 and #2 that you might not even get as far as evaluating #3. Their new Fedora Linux - which looks like a copy of Ubuntu, except that it uses their own RPM packaging - is not much better, at least not on my old Pentium II with a very simple hardware configuration. In my limited experience, the only distros which roughly fulfill criteria #1-3 above are: a) Puppy Linux (!!) b) Linspire c) Kurumin (Brazilian Linux, an improved Knoppix) The case of MEPIS is rather tragic. It fulfills criteria #1-3 very well, but unlike the other Linuxes, Rev looks really crappy in it. The Rev font set (which appears to be independent of the system fonts chosen for the OS) is all small and spidery. Of course, other Linux users/experimenters are likely to disagree with my own subjective selection, and naturally the exact files for testing under criterion #2 is a thing which needs to be agreed upon. At this very moment I would have the tendency to suggest the following in relation to Rev's "seal of approval": I. Since Ubuntu is one of the most stable and popular distros out there, and it has a magnificent philosophy, I would "hang fire" on a Rev seal of approval until such time as criterion #2 is adequately fulfilled, hopefully in the next release ("Edgy Eft", due in 6 months or so). II. Try to define a SINGLE alternative distro for a Rev seal of approval. I therefore ask for your help in telling me what the best Linux distro is in your experience (approximating criteria #1-3 as defined), preferably one which can be tried from a live CD, and also what you think the most crucial file types for out-of-the-box playing are under criterion #2. Thereafter, at least theoretically, attention could be better focused on the peculiarities of the file systems involved and what recommendations could be made in obtaining fundamental system info through Rev (such as how to implement the specialFolder Path functions, where to find the fstab file - if indeed there is one - giving info about the floppy disk's existence, and so on). Regards to all, Bob _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From bobwarren at howsoft.com Thu Jul 6 15:01:14 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 16:01:14 -0300 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <44AD5DFA.5060201@howsoft.com> Just after starting this thread, I received the following news. I am mentioning it because it seems to correspond exactly to my idea of selecting a single distro (or small range of distros) for Rev's "seal of approval" in order to be more practical: -------------------------------------------- AUSTIN, Texas, USA (July 6, 2006) ? REAL Software, Inc., provider of REALbasic, cross-platform that really works, announced today that REALbasic 2006 Release 3 for Linux is available now. In addition to the over 100 features and fixes that have been added, REALbasic 2006 Release 3 for Linux has been specifically tested and optimized for use with SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop from Novell. "SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop is the best Linux desktop on the market," stated Geoff Perlman, president and CEO of REAL Software. "Rather than waiting for Vista we think many IT managers and CIOs will now make the move to Linux because it's more secure, less expensive, and much more open than Windows. And for those businesses who are still locked into Windows by their legacy Visual Basic applications, REAL Software will help move those applications to SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop. We look forward to helping Novell convert a lot of Windows shops to Linux." -------------------------------------------- I wonder whether their embedded browser (like altBrowser) now works without tweaking in my Ubuntu Linux? I DO hope that Rev are not going to miss the boat AGAIN!! Bob From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jul 6 15:02:55 2006 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 12:02:55 -0700 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <44AD5E5F.8070108@fourthworld.com> Bob Warren wrote: > There are hundreds of Linux distros out there, all at different stages > of development, and with slightly different characteristics - > particularly in the details of the file system. In my view, such a > situation is perfectly natural and normal, and it is just a question of > time before commonly-agreed standards and greater uniformity arise. ... > From a programming point of view, the current situation is very > intimidating, not only for Runtime Revolution, but also for anyone > hoping to program in Rev for Linux generally rather than for a > particular distro. Not just for Rev folks, but really anyone interested in trying out Linux but discovers that they first need several days' worth of education to sort out *which* Linux they should go for. This plethora of distros is the single most destructive force the Linux community faces today. Not even Microsoft's misinformation campaign does as much damage to Linux adoption as the Linux community itself. In spite of the good intentions of these distro vendors, they really need to cut it out and pool their resources behind one or two of the leading ones, letting the rest either fade away or become more clearly identifiable as highly specialized variants not targeted at general consumers. I like the optimism you express at the end of that first paragaph above, but having been made somewhat more cynical by watching each new distro vendor pop up month after month with some misguided idea that theirs is somehow necessary and more precious than any other, I have to wonder: What can we as developers, users, and advocates do to hasten the demise of most Linux distros? Should we petition these vendors to stop polluting Linux mindspace with unnecessary variation? Is the Linux community mature enough yet to recognize the damage being done by this fragmentation, or are they still stuck in yesteryear's "If you don't understand Linux you don't deserve to use Linux"? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jul 6 15:11:06 2006 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 12:11:06 -0700 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <44AD604A.4090703@fourthworld.com> Bob Warren wrote: > > Just after starting this thread, I received the following news. I am > mentioning it because it seems to correspond exactly to my idea of > selecting a single distro (or small range of distros) for Rev's "seal of > approval" in order to be more practical: > > -------------------------------------------- > > AUSTIN, Texas, USA (July 6, 2006) ? REAL Software, Inc., provider of > REALbasic, cross-platform that really works, announced today that > REALbasic 2006 Release 3 for Linux is available now. In addition to the > over 100 features and fixes that have been added, REALbasic 2006 Release > 3 for Linux has been specifically tested and optimized for use with SUSE > Linux Enterprise Desktop from Novell. While I don't normally have much respect for RB marketing resources, SUSE makes a lot of sense. This set of videos shows a seriousness about usability not often found in other distros: Sure, half of that is just OS X knockoffs, but if you're going to steal ideas they might as well steal good ones. :) Favoring Novell also returns a favor to the Rev community: Novell has published a series of articles about using Rev on SUSE: Given all of these factors, I would whole-heartedly support a move by RunRev to target SUSE as the Linux for the most polished deployment (appearances, specialFolderPath, and other things we could use). If RunRev jumps on this idea I would definitely do a "SUSE-First" initiative for my own Linux releases. Who knows? If enough of us pool our resources maybe we can push SUSE enough to kill off most of the others, ultimately benefiting everyone.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mb.ur at harbourhosting.co.uk Thu Jul 6 15:29:39 2006 From: mb.ur at harbourhosting.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:29:39 +0100 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <44AD604A.4090703@fourthworld.com> References: <44AD604A.4090703@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <44AD64A3.4090806@harbourhosting.co.uk> Richard Gaskin wrote: > Given all of these factors, I would whole-heartedly support a move by > RunRev to target SUSE as the Linux for the most polished deployment > (appearances, specialFolderPath, and other things we could use). > > If RunRev jumps on this idea I would definitely do a "SUSE-First" > initiative for my own Linux releases. > > Who knows? If enough of us pool our resources maybe we can push SUSE > enough to kill off most of the others, ultimately benefiting everyone.... > I don't mind if they do. Didn't Revolution once have a Mandrake (now Mandriva) logo on its website? Presumably that was some kind of seal of approval. I wonder where that went? Martin Baxter From pevensen at siboneylg.com Thu Jul 6 15:26:45 2006 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:26:45 -0500 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060706142555.06186068@exchange.slg.com> I just had to jump in. Greg, have you looked at the User's Guide? It is pretty good. I haven't seen anyone mention that. At 01:30 PM 7/6/2006, you wrote: >Greg Smith wrote: >>You really haven't thoroughly read what I have written. I have stated that >>I am not opposed to learning to program, but, rather, opposed to having to >>learn the skills with inadequate foundational learning material. > >I did overlook this in your original posts. I agree that Revolution is >lacking in the documentation department. It has a lot of documentation for >people who are familiar with the environment, but not for those just >getting started. Rev really needs a good tutorial that goes beyond just >the basics that it covers now. Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 From bobwarren at howsoft.com Thu Jul 6 15:33:19 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 16:33:19 -0300 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <44AD657F.5060504@howsoft.com> Bob Warren wrote: > I wonder whether their [Realbasic's] embedded browser (like altBrowser) now works without tweaking in my Ubuntu Linux? --------------------------- Works perfectly without tweaking! I don't think I am being too provocative by suggesting that this represents a very loud wakeup call to Rev, do you? Bob From ray at linkitonline.com Thu Jul 6 14:44:16 2006 From: ray at linkitonline.com (Ray Horsley) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:44:16 -0400 Subject: Modifying Keyboard Shortcuts in Script Editor In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060706142555.06186068@exchange.slg.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20060706142555.06186068@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: Anybody have a quick-and-easy way to modify keyboard shortcuts in the menubar which comes up when Rev's Script Editor is opened in the debugging mode? Thanks, Ray Horsley Developer, LinkIt! Software From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jul 6 15:46:11 2006 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:46:11 -0700 Subject: Dreamhost? Message-ID: <13814343234.20060706124611@ahsoftware.net> All- I'm interested in getting away from JaguarPC's crappy hosting and considering Dreamhost because I know there's some experience here on the list with it, I like the fact that it's got RoR already installed, and I like the features matrix. Any comments pro or con Dreamhost, especially as a rev cgi host? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jul 6 16:21:17 2006 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:21:17 -0700 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <44AD5156.9020806@howsoft.com> References: <44AD5156.9020806@howsoft.com> Message-ID: <1416449202.20060706132117@ahsoftware.net> Bob- Thursday, July 6, 2006, 11:07:18 AM, you wrote: > great list of live CDs at > http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php > which can be downloaded and burned. !!! Thanks for the link. I've got a few of those archived, but I had no idea this list existed... -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jul 6 16:28:17 2006 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:28:17 -0700 Subject: fstab In-Reply-To: <44AC72CB.6080805@howsoft.com> References: <44AC72CB.6080805@howsoft.com> Message-ID: <1116869246.20060706132817@ahsoftware.net> Bob- Wednesday, July 5, 2006, 7:17:47 PM, you wrote: > How about looking at the /etc/fstab file and checking for the presence > of a /dev/fd0 entry? > -------------------------------- > That works fine on Ubuntu, but for other distros the fstab is either in > a different place or it doesn't even seem to exist! I'm sure you've done more testing of this than I have, so excuse my incredulity here, but fstab is one of the cornerstones of *nix. Can you point me to some where it doesn't exist? Solaris is the only exception I know of, where the file is called vfstab. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From smith.sgt at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 16:35:17 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 16:35:17 -0400 Subject: hilitedLine In-Reply-To: <0F47EFF0-F91C-498D-BC07-15FD025DD948@economy-x-talk.com> References: <000a01c6a100$05e84d60$6801a8c0@laptop> <0F47EFF0-F91C-498D-BC07-15FD025DD948@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Did you mean Preston? I wasn't the one who asked the question. On 7/6/06, Mark Schonewille wrote: > > Hi Jared, > > Chris' solution won't work on Mac OS X. I don't know about other > platforms. The following works for me: > > on preopenCard > set the hilitedlines of fld 1 to 0 > set the traversalon of fld 1 to false > end preopenCard > > on openCard > set the traversalon of fld 1 to true > end openCard > > > Best, > > Mark > > > -- > > Economy-x-Talk > Consultancy and Software Engineering > http://economy-x-talk.com > http://www.salery.biz > > Download ErrorLib at http://economy-x-talk.com/developers.html and > get full control of error handling in Revolution. > > > > Op 6-jul-2006, om 18:27 heeft Jared Smith het volgende geschreven: > > > I think it would suffice to set the focus somewhere else when the card > > opens...do you need it to be focused? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From chris at altuit.com Thu Jul 6 16:38:39 2006 From: chris at altuit.com (chris bohnert) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 15:38:39 -0500 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <44AD5E5F.8070108@fourthworld.com> References: <44AD5E5F.8070108@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2e0cf4750607061338w714ae9edy6a8abf4b07d3771a@mail.gmail.com> > What can we as developers, users, and advocates do to hasten the demise > of most Linux distros? Seriously...should we pick off just the ones you disagree with or should we take a stick to distro vendors at random? You'll get my gentoo box when you pry it from my cold dead hands. -- cb From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Thu Jul 6 16:42:08 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:42:08 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5202649.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <5202649.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <44AD75A0.2050307@paraboliclogic.com> GregSmith wrote: > I'll just repeat what I initially stated: > > I think multimedia authoring software should be intuitive enough, and well > documented enough to allow a fairly non-technical user to do amazing things > without constantly needing to ask assistance from local forum gurus. > > The foundational educational material for learning Revolution from the > standpoint of a total non-programmer seems to be missing. That's the gist > of my own personal dilemma. > > I do appreciate most of your replies, but having to go through this kind of > verbal ordeal in order to learn a thing is precisely the reason I don't want > to use a forum as a learning tool or depend upon the reactions of the local > gurus. I want to learn alone. The resources which would allow me to do > this from the ground up, using Transcript and Revolution, as a single tool, > do not exist. You had the answers to your questions within a few of the users replies, but you persisted and of course, got more replies. No person here verbally abused you at all. Simple media presentation tools are what you want them to be, and Rev is not a simple media presentation tool, it's the bridge between that and full programming tool. A simple media presentation tool as you want will not accomplish what you want. If you want to do what you want to do, then you're going to have to get over your misconceptions and get dirty with learning a programming language. These things will never be so simple that anyone can use them, it's just impossible. Even though the car you spoke of only had 300 parts, that doesn't mean that the average Joe is capable of replicating it or working on it, unless they got dirty and learned how to do it. And I can bet you there was no tutorials or forums to help out. Nothing will ever be intuitive enough for every single person to do amazing things. The only way amazing things will happen is if you take the time to learn something and then use your knowledge to create that something amazing. If you are not able to begin learning to use Rev with what is already available for tutorials and such, then programming and or creating media presentation type projects is just not going to be your cup of tea at all. There is no magical spell that will allow anyone to learn without digging in and getting dirty. When you were a child, was riding a bicycle so intuitive that you did not need to learn how to ride it? When you began to use a computer, was it so intuitive that you did not have to ask for help? When you began to learn to read and write, was it so intuitive that you didn't have to go to school to learn how read and write? There's a price to pay for everything in life and if you're not willing to pay that price then you're just not going to get what you want at all. There's no amount of conjecture or debates that will change that. If you do find what you are looking for, I can assure you that you will never create anything amazing with it. Maybe you should look around the VPL development tools, or maybe try Flash or shockwave or something like that. Maybe those will be more intuitive. I think I can understand why the other forums were abrupt with you or just ignored you. You weren't willing to really learn at all, instead, you probably complained about how impossible it is to learn and it should be more intuitive so that a three-leg cross-eyed weener dog with brain damage could just start using it with no learning curve at all. Honestly, you've really kind of pissed me off on this completely. There should be no reason at all that you can't learn to use Rev! I have a hard time just living life itself because of my disabilities, but yet, I was able to learn to use Rev! And I bet you that I could put any one of my three teens at the computer with Rev and they'd learn and understand it within a few months, and not one of them knows jack about programming! My suggestions is go find something else to do and stay away from programming completely, don't even think about scripting, coding, batch, automation, nothing related to any of it. Take up coloring books! Oh Wait!, that might not be intuitive enough and you'd want the pictures to color themselves! Ok, I'm obviously off the deep end now, so take care and good luck on whatever you decided to do. -Garrett From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 16:51:16 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:51:16 -0700 Subject: Possible New Book Titles In-Reply-To: <44ACE387.000001.02316@MAZYTIS> References: <44ACE387.000001.02316@MAZYTIS> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607061351h670a73bn63d0d7fcfedb2fe8@mail.gmail.com> I'm guessing that my book on standalone creation will also have to cover the issues of cross-platform deployment you mention. I won't, however, try to cover things like raster vs. vector graphics, communicating with externals (though including them in the build process is obviously important), and OS functions. That may be a separate volume. But I need to examine carefully how much I can cover in a $5 ebooklet. It may take more than one to do this topic justice. On 7/6/06, Viktoras Didziulis wrote: > > Hi Dan, > > I would suggest adding a couple of sections on handling raster and vector > graphics in Revolution which would be helpful too. > Also all the basics and details on communicating with externals, libraries > and OS functions and devices would be good to have in same book :-) > > Best regards > Viktoras > > On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:33:06 -0700, "Dan Shafer" > wrote: > > OK, I'm trying to figure out the best next subject on which to > > produce a > > SmartEBook eBooklet. The following topics remain on my list and are > > candidates based on the relatively small likelihood that > > fundamental changes > > in Rev will obsolete them in the next year. I'd be interested in > > votes, > > feedback, other suggestions, etc. > > > > * Script-based commands > > > > Edit script, editscript, wait, do, scriptlimits, text/font related > > properties, insert script, remove script, start using > > > > * The Message Box > > > > Examination of all panes, properties, uses of the Message Box > > > > * Debugging strategies and techniques > > > > * Parameters, Variables and Values in Transcript > > > > * Building and Deploying Standalones > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 16:52:33 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:52:33 -0700 Subject: Possible New Book Titles In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607061351h670a73bn63d0d7fcfedb2fe8@mail.gmail.com> References: <44ACE387.000001.02316@MAZYTIS> <70ed6b130607061351h670a73bn63d0d7fcfedb2fe8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607061352w5b2d1a93v3fa7f024d17c7eb2@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for all the input. After considering everyone's viewpoints, looking at my own interests, talking with some of the veteran RevHeads and checking in with the Mother Ship, I've decided my next eBooklet will be on standalone creation. I'll post an outline of the specific topics as soon as I can get a handle on how big the beast is. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Thu Jul 6 16:56:43 2006 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:56:43 -0700 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <44AD5DFA.5060201@howsoft.com> Message-ID: <012901c6a13e$b0dcc320$6401a8c0@lynn> > I wonder whether their embedded browser (like altBrowser) now > works without tweaking in my Ubuntu Linux? > > I DO hope that Rev are not going to miss the boat AGAIN!! Hi Bob, Im not sure what you are asking here. Do you want Runtime to only test with one version of Linux? That is the only thing guaranteed by REAL's support SUSE in the press release. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Worldwide Business Operations Runtime Revolution, Ltd From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 16:59:35 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:59:35 -0700 Subject: Dreamhost? In-Reply-To: <13814343234.20060706124611@ahsoftware.net> References: <13814343234.20060706124611@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607061359p17a62561j425cc55be5d58368@mail.gmail.com> Stephen Barncard turned me on to Dreamhost over a year ago and I am a delighted client. I seem to recall getting Rev CGI working there at one point but as I recall I had some problem doing so. Stephen may be able to be more specific. But for hosting, these guys are great. On 7/6/06, Mark Wieder wrote: > > All- > > I'm interested in getting away from JaguarPC's crappy hosting and > considering Dreamhost because I know there's some experience here on > the list with it, I like the fact that it's got RoR already installed, > and I like the features matrix. Any comments pro or con Dreamhost, > especially as a rev cgi host? > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 17:10:39 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:10:39 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5194878.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607060002p2e460c39gd7c0476e4baa0e68@mail.gmail.com> <5194878.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607061410s7159df43q429b9a7ce60e20b7@mail.gmail.com> Greg...... Honest, well-informed people will differ on this point. My reason for suggesting Squeak (and EToys) as a starting point was that there is already a lot of sample code, working classes, demos, and even some apps that at least head in the direction you seem to be wanting to head. Everything Rodney says about the *language* is probably true; it's definitely more complex than Transcript and getting your head wrapped around object orientation can be a real adventure. But there are already a well-designed (if somewhat clunky-looking) visual programming environment, a robust and well-designed 3D world, an entire emerging OS (Croquet) built around those tools, and a LOT of books and other materials available with which to learn and master the skills. Also, I (perhaps peculiarly) find Smalltalk as easy to read as Transcript if not easier. The syntax is quite verbose but that is a big advantage to me. When Rodney says, "it is REALLY unintuitive to anyone who hasn't drunk the Smalltalk Cool Aid. Just figuring out what mouse clicks do takes some work. Smalltalk is essentially an operating system," I can agree with a good percentage of what he says. But, just for example, there are close to 500 full-blown frameworks and apps available free through SqueakMap. There are starting points and components for a staggering array of things including servers and all kinds of other cool stuff. All of that reflects the maturity of a programming language and environment that is now 30+ years old and still going strong. BTW, Rodney is right when he says that creating *standard* user interfaces that adopt native look and feel is still an issue in Smalltalk. That's changing soon with the deployment of wxSqueak using wxWidgets, but for now it's an issue. However, I had the impression from your description of what you want to do that you're more interested in direct-manipulation interfaces than non-standard ones and for that stuff, Squeak soars. On 7/6/06, GregSmith wrote: > > > Dan & Rodney: > > O.K., now, just as I was salivating over the potential usefulness and joy > of > using Squeak, Rodney comes along and throws water all over me. Which is > it? > Who is right? I haven't yet had time to look at the actual Squeak > language, > but I did see that incredibly direct and simple "kids" example of using > Squeak over at SqueakLand, or is it SmallTalkLand? EToys. And then there > is the integration of all the functionality that the Alice environment > offered, brought over into SqueakLand, or whatever it is called. Is it > all > too good to be really true? > > My initial impressions of this environment were that it teaches new users, > even kids, to apprehend, to comprehend the concepts involved in > programming, > so that, after those things are grasped, then the cryptic programming > terminology can be introduced which, if those are introduced first, > confuses > the heck out of anyone wanting to learn to program. Even if a programming > language is English-like, what is needed beyond and prior to learning > lines > of "code" is really understanding sequences of events and why they need to > be in the order that they need to be in to get the machine to respond > properly. Right? > > Greg Smith > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5194878 > Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From brucegregory at earthlink.net Thu Jul 6 17:13:25 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607060118v5366e4ecs65461b85dd000768@mail.gmail.com> <5195760.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <5207662.post@talk.nabble.com> Rodney: Thank you for taking the time to clarify these things for me. I'm beginning to understand Revolution . . . but, now that Dan has got me looking at Squeak . . . and I've spent the last 8 hours doing so, I'm absolutely fascinated from the point of view of starting from absolute scratch, which I would like to do. A clean slate, a blank canvas a fresh mind. I've looked at and played with EToys, watched Alan Kay demonstrate and explain the concepts behind Squeak and learning, in general; and now can see why Dan sent me over there. My set of dream applications really do fit into the immediate capabilities of this environment. And, (here is the clincher), it has a learning system for kids, (that's me), that assumes next to nothing regarding its users. I'm not ashamed to learn as though I were a child, as fresh as a dew-picked strawberry, undefiled by the ravages of time and age. To tell you the truth, I think Alan Kay is right when he says that the real computer revolution hasn't even begun. I also think he is right, from the standpoint of efficiency, and the direct creation of all new assets, (which I would intend to do), that the current operating system paradigm needs to be abandoned in favor of an all new, truly object oriented one. It just makes sense to me. I hope Dan has some more to add to his recommendation to help clarify these issues even more. Thanks again, Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5207662 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From alex at tweedly.net Thu Jul 6 17:13:36 2006 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:13:36 +0100 Subject: udp: determine local port? In-Reply-To: <44AD2D62.50404@spl21.net> References: <44AD2D62.50404@spl21.net> Message-ID: <44AD7D00.4080309@tweedly.net> John Craig wrote: > Is it possible for rev to determine the local port used to send udp data? > I don't know of a way to do this directly - certainly nothing I can see in the docs, and haven't seen it done. There is a pretty nasty (but generally effective) way to do it ..... see below. But before you get to that, I have to ask *why* you want to know this. I can think of lots of possible reasons - but most of them aren't good reasons. Generally, you don't need to know which local port has been used - the handler specified in the "open" statement receives a message when any reply arrives, without needing to know the port number. There are good reasons to want it, but all the ones I can think of are pretty esoteric (e.g. to punch a hole through a firewall). So I am curious why you want this, in case we can suggest a better way. Icky work-around. All major OSes (afaik) allocate local ports serially, so you can pretty much determine what was allocated by - accept udp packets on some loopback interface (e.g. 127.0.0.1:9876) - open a "connection" to this interface, send a packet to the connection, close the connection - give message processing a chance to happen - open the socket you *really* wanted - open a "connection" to this interface, send a packet to the connection, close the connection - give message processing a chance to happen again Each time the loopback receives a packet, it can look at the incoming socket info (which contains the return port number) These *should* differ by two (assuming the OS allocated serially, and nothing else got in the way). If they differ by something other than 2 - try again !?! Here's some code I tried out just to check if that does actually work, and it does seem to ... > --> all handlers > > on mouseUp > -- use a 192.168.1.1 address (i.e. NOT same machine) to avoid > error of no-one accepting on this port > put "opened" && getUDPLOcalSocket("191.168.1.1:4567", myCallBack) > & cr after msg > -- put "before write " && the opensockets & cr after msg > -- write "one" && cr to socket "127.0.0.1:4567" > -- put "after write " && the opensockets & cr after msg > end mouseUp > > on myCallBack > -- will only be called if there is, e.g., an echo server on the > "real" socket > -- and if the above three lines are uncommented ... > put "real call back handler ---------" & cr & paramCount() & cr > after msg > repeat with i = 1 to paramCount() > put i && ":" && param(i) & cr after msg > end repeat > put "end real call back handler ---------" & cr after msg > end myCallback > > local lIncomingSocketList > local lLoopBackSocket = "127.0.0.1:9876" > function getUDPLocalSocket pSocket, pCallBack > -- first zero the accumulator > put empty into lIncomingSocketList > -- and close the socket (if it's alreadyh open, would re-use same > local port number > close socket pSocket > -- set up the loopback, write to and close > accept datagram connections on port "9876" with message loopBack > open datagram socket lLoopBackSocket with message loopBack > write " " to socket lLoopBackSocket > close socket lLoopBackSocket > -- MUST give that a chance to happen ! > wait 5 millisecs with messages > > open datagram socket pSocket with message pCallBack > > -- repeat the loopback open/write/close/allow messages > open datagram socket lLoopBackSocket with message loopBack > write " " to socket lLoopBackSocket > close socket lLoopBackSocket > wait 5 millisecs with messages > -- and now can return the list - should have two port numbers 2 apart > return lIncomingSocketList > end getUDPLocalSocket > > on loopBack pSock > put pSock & comma after lIncomingSocketList > put "lopback" && pSock &cr after msg > end loopBack > > on socketError p > put "error" && p after msg > end socketError -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 30/06/2006 From barryb at libero.it Thu Jul 6 17:15:55 2006 From: barryb at libero.it (barryb at libero.it) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 23:15:55 +0200 Subject: how the internet works : the official explanation Message-ID: Sorry Andre , Having initially noticed your caveat about super intelligence, I decided not to write about the pigeons but the next day I'd forgotten that and I wrote it. Anyway I think people who do not understand pigeon behaviour and might take your ideas too seriously should be glad of your explanation. Your answer just shows that you are much funnier than I realized! Hope we don't get a tutorial from Dan explaining how to programme pigeons! Barry Barber From smith.sgt at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 17:42:01 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:42:01 -0400 Subject: Dreamhost? In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607061359p17a62561j425cc55be5d58368@mail.gmail.com> References: <13814343234.20060706124611@ahsoftware.net> <70ed6b130607061359p17a62561j425cc55be5d58368@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Is there a reason Dreamhost is popular? I've been looking for an easy way to buy some hosting and use a Valentina database, but I don't see too many hosting providers having that built-in other than MacServe... On 7/6/06, Dan Shafer wrote: > Stephen Barncard turned me on to Dreamhost over a year ago and I am a > delighted client. > > I seem to recall getting Rev CGI working there at one point but as I recall > I had some problem doing so. Stephen may be able to be more specific. > > But for hosting, these guys are great. > > On 7/6/06, Mark Wieder wrote: > > > > All- > > > > I'm interested in getting away from JaguarPC's crappy hosting and > > considering Dreamhost because I know there's some experience here on > > the list with it, I like the fact that it's got RoR already installed, > > and I like the features matrix. Any comments pro or con Dreamhost, > > especially as a rev cgi host? > > > > -- > > -Mark Wieder > > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author > http://www.shafermedia.com > Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" > >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From brucegregory at earthlink.net Thu Jul 6 17:42:35 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <44AD75A0.2050307@paraboliclogic.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <5202649.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AD75A0.2050307@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: <5208057.post@talk.nabble.com> Garrett: Sorry to make you so angry, and yes, I think you did just go off the deep end. And, I'm sure my communication skills are partly to blame. I have spent more than a little time trying to learn to program in the past. In the 90's I was hired by a local university to write a program with HyperCard that taught children base 10. It was funny and simple, because that was all I could manage, and I did get paid for my labor. All of these years since, I have struggled with my own learning "disabilities", which, I think are rather common, especially for visually oriented artist types. The current programming model just doesn't seem to fit any better for us than does a square peg in a round hole. We always are looking for ways to make things visually. Natural programming types are always looking to do things "verbally". All I have really been trying to ascertain here is whether Revolution will help me to design software systems like I can envision them. Yes, I have done a lot of complaining about programming methods, terminology, lack of foundational material for the programmatically impaired, etc. Somehow that gets interpreted to mean, (for people like yourself), I want everyone and everything to do it for me, or that I don't want to learn; which is exactly the opposite of what I am trying to express. I simply want a tool that I can educate myself with, needing nobody's constant assistance. Creative and learning independence. I get frustrated when, everywhere I look, with a detailed eye, at various programming environments, there do not exist learning resources that start from the very beginning and approach the subject visually, instead of verbally; with lots of acronyms and buzzwords thrown in to make it even more difficult for the new learner to understand. Be "pissed" if that truly makes you feel better. I meant no personal offense. Remember, nobody forces anybody to read a post that wastes their time. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5208057 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From bvg at mac.com Thu Jul 6 18:37:19 2006 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 00:37:19 +0200 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5208057.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <5202649.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AD75A0.2050307@paraboliclogic.com> <5208057.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <450526c961b1054687b02b815e448b3d@mac.com> On Jul 06 2006, at 23:42, GregSmith wrote: > Be "pissed" if that truly makes you feel better. I meant no personal > offense. Remember, nobody forces anybody to read a post that wastes > their > time. Actually most mails on this mailinglist have to be read, otherwise you can't now whether there's valuable information in them, one of the reasons why i don't participate in most of the (to me) useless discussions here. On the other hand some threads can be skipped, or certain persons mails too. As for the programming for visual kinda people, I never met a person that was incapable of learning programming, if said person accepts that a lone wolf is not part of the society today. You specified some programs, which can be done in runrev, if one respects the limits that it has. Some ideas of you are only possible in a lower level language, today most prefer C and its offsprings for that, but I'm pretty sure you don't want to use one of those. So my hint would be: start doing it! at first you'll be frustrated, but after a week or so of stumbling around you'll get something done that makes you proud, and then you will have learned the basics to make your (programmable) dreams come true. -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.bjoernke.com Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" From bobwarren at howsoft.com Thu Jul 6 19:00:24 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:00:24 -0300 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <44AD9608.90907@howsoft.com> Bob Warren wrote: >I wonder whether their embedded browser (like altBrowser) now >> works without tweaking in my Ubuntu Linux? >> >> I DO hope that Rev are not going to miss the boat AGAIN!! Lynn Fredricks wrote: > Hi Bob, Im not sure what you are asking here. Do you want Runtime to only test with one version of Linux? That is the only thing guaranteed by REAL's support SUSE in the press release. --------------------------------------------------- Hi Lynn, I'm not sure what you are asking either. If you are referring to what I said at the beginning of the thread, I would certainly not want Rev to test on only one version of Linux. However, what I did suggest was special attention to a restricted set of Linuxes (for various technical reasons), at least at the moment. What I was referring to in the sentences you quoted was the complete unavailability of altBrowser for Linux. Half a yonk ago (that word again), I asked Rev to fix this, since I needed it desperately. I was told that special changes to Rev were required so that Altuit could produce it, but that such changes would be made in the not-too-distant future. However, it turns out that the situation of altBrowser for Linux is not too different to the "Coming soon" of #2.7: it all depends on what you mean by "soon"! As an ordinary Studio user, I have no ET for the appearance of 2.7, and I certainly have no idea whether when it does eventually appear it will include the changes required for altBrowser, whether the necessary specialFolderPath functions will be implemented, etc. In other words, Rev has kept me (us) completely in the dark. I am not happy as a result. As for the sentence about Rev missing the boat, what I meant was that just as Rev failed to scoop up great numbers of VB6 orphans (of which I am one), it seems that they are also failing to satisfy their users requiring an embedded browser (in stark contrast to Realbasic). Note too that this question has a direct relationship with recent discussions on the UR-List regarding the use of the Internet, multimedia delivery, embedding Rev stacks in browsers, etc. The only difference is that the provision of an altBrowser-type embedded browser is much more fundamental. Regarding Realbasic's support of SUSE, I am not yet in a position to give an opinion on whether it is a good or a bad thing. What I do know regarding their embedded browser (called "HTMLview") is that not only is it guaranteed to work on SUSE, it also works great on my (unsupported) Ubuntu. That's 100% better than I can do with Rev at the moment. If on the other hand you could give us SOME kind of good news regarding this browser issue in Linux, I would be very grateful. Being kept in the dark like this causes a lot of suffering. Regards, Bob From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Thu Jul 6 19:07:17 2006 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:07:17 -0400 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <5202649.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <5202649.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <6FFFD69F-EE28-46D7-96B4-352C700EFDD6@adelphia.net> Dear Greg, You are wrong! The materials do exist and you have been given the info to get them. If you want to learn alone then go get the resources that have been mentioned and drop this thread. Tom On Jul 6, 2006, at 12:07 PM, GregSmith wrote: > > I'll just repeat what I initially stated: > > I think multimedia authoring software should be intuitive enough, > and well > documented enough to allow a fairly non-technical user to do > amazing things > without constantly needing to ask assistance from local forum gurus. > > The foundational educational material for learning Revolution from the > standpoint of a total non-programmer seems to be missing. That's > the gist > of my own personal dilemma. > > I do appreciate most of your replies, but having to go through this > kind of > verbal ordeal in order to learn a thing is precisely the reason I > don't want > to use a forum as a learning tool or depend upon the reactions of > the local > gurus. I want to learn alone. The resources which would allow me > to do > this from the ground up, using Transcript and Revolution, as a > single tool, > do not exist. > > Thank you, > > Greg Smith > -- > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on- > Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5202649 > Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From Stgoldberg at aol.com Thu Jul 6 19:08:27 2006 From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:08:27 EDT Subject: Dependence on programming experts Message-ID: <57b.25755a.31def1eb@aol.com> Regarding Revolution and object-oriented programming, it seems to me that Revolution, which I have been actively using for the past two years, does do that since one can save useful scripts (sometimes long, complex ones) from one application and apply in another without having to start from scratch. Indeed, I have been saving a number of scripts that participants in this panel have suggested over the past two years and found them helpful in a number of different projects. It is sort of like having a collection of clip art objects that one can combine to create different works of art. Steve Goldberg From bobwarren at howsoft.com Thu Jul 6 19:12:28 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:12:28 -0300 Subject: fstab Message-ID: <44AD98DC.7050500@howsoft.com> Mark Wieder wrote: >> How about looking at the /etc/fstab file and checking for the presence >> of a /dev/fd0 entry? Bob Warren wrote: >> That works fine on Ubuntu, but for other distros the fstab is either in >> a different place or it doesn't even seem to exist! Mark Wieder wrote: > I'm sure you've done more testing of this than I have, so excuse my incredulity here, but fstab is one of the cornerstones of *nix. Can you point me to some where it doesn't exist? Solaris is the only exception I know of, where the file is called vfstab. -------------------------------------------- You are quite right to insist. I sometimes suffer from blindness and old age. If you are right and I am wrong, that would indeed be a good thing! I'll look into it again and let you know what I find/don't find. Regards, Bob From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Thu Jul 6 19:13:46 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 16:13:46 -0700 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <1416449202.20060706132117@ahsoftware.net> References: <44AD5156.9020806@howsoft.com> <1416449202.20060706132117@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <44AD992A.6090306@paraboliclogic.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Bob- > > Thursday, July 6, 2006, 11:07:18 AM, you wrote: > >> great list of live CDs at >> http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php >> which can be downloaded and burned. > > !!! Thanks for the link. I've got a few of those archived, but I had > no idea this list existed... Which outnumbers the other, linux software or linux distros? ;-) There are of course only a few that do stand above the rest, but the massive amounts of home brew distros really do dilute the market and confuse potential users. The other factor which works against linux is the amount of Window Managers available. Gnome and KDE being the most common. But KDE uses QT which has license issues which really leaves Gnome as the WM with the most potential at being the standard WM for linux. -Garrett From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jul 6 19:15:55 2006 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 16:15:55 -0700 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <44AD5156.9020806@howsoft.com> References: <44AD5156.9020806@howsoft.com> Message-ID: <742015307.20060706161555@ahsoftware.net> Bob- Thursday, July 6, 2006, 11:07:18 AM, you wrote: > The Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" doesn't exist. I'd like to suggest > it, but perhaps under the more practical heading of "Currently approved > Linux distros" for use with the Runtime Revolution programming system. The "Officially" supported linux distros are Mandriva, RedHat, SuSE, and Linspire. All of these are mentioned during the installation process. And on the runrev web site. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jul 6 19:16:41 2006 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 16:16:41 -0700 Subject: Of Lists and Dependence Message-ID: Execute the following in your Revolution message box: go url "http://www.i-view.net/tactile/noiz.rev" Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From tariel at mac.com Thu Jul 6 19:43:39 2006 From: tariel at mac.com (Tariel Gogoberidze) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:43:39 -0400 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <20060706201617.77B62826FDD@mail.runrev.com> References: <20060706201617.77B62826FDD@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <49f2cc138eaf158f61624de0719ee373@mac.com> Greg, Concerning your first would be project, it probably would take more than one tool to accomplish such task. You may want to take a look at the Myst like game "Aida" written in Revolution I don't know how much programming author had to do, but he claims that it took him about a week to get started developing this game in Revolution and the web link above has a "case study" and game making Tutorial that may give you some insights. As for SmallTalk, after you scratch the surface you will probably discover that some programming / coding skills would be required there as well and I don't think that programing in SmallTalk is less challenging than it is in Revolution best regards Tariel From brucegregory at earthlink.net Thu Jul 6 20:04:39 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <450526c961b1054687b02b815e448b3d@mac.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <5202649.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AD75A0.2050307@paraboliclogic.com> <5208057.post@talk.nabble.com> <450526c961b1054687b02b815e448b3d@mac.com> Message-ID: <5209591.post@talk.nabble.com> Bj?rnke: Thanks for the encouraging and informative words. You understand that we are just trying to get to the bottom of things, I know. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5209591 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 20:08:21 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:08:21 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607060002p2e460c39gd7c0476e4baa0e68@mail.gmail.com> <5194878.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607061708p4ee2d09g3548491569d62a30@mail.gmail.com> Rodney..... I'm not interested in starting a language war. And I'm a huge fan of both smalltalk and Rev, as I imagine almost everyone here knows by now. But your opinion about Smalltalk is so wrong based on *my* experience that I can't let it stand. Let's just say our experiences differ. I've built much larger systems in Smalltalk than I've bulit in Rev. By far. I just want Greg to know that there's more than one viewpoint on the subject. On 7/6/06, Rodney Somerstein wrote: The main problem, in my view, is that Smalltalk environments are pretty much unlike anything else you will encounter on your computer. Yes, you can learn programming concepts. But, you will then likely end up learning another language afterward to produce usable software. Unfortunate, but that is the current state of the art. As Smalltalk has been around for a long time, that is unlikely to change anytime in the near future. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From bobwarren at howsoft.com Thu Jul 6 20:09:51 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 21:09:51 -0300 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <44ADA64F.3010803@howsoft.com> Viktoras Didziulis wrote: > I personally have Ubuntu linux (Debian family) installed on my laptop PC and PC as the second OS. Really happy with this. Earlier have tried Fedora Core, but this one used to have some annoyances with laptops and multimedia. Then switched to Scientific Linux, multimedia was OK, still the main annoyance was corrupted RPM and updating system due to the bug in Red Hat family Linuxes. They likely got fixed this now, but as I have already switched to Ubuntu - not going back to Red Hat ;-) . Regarding the criterions I would suggest taking compliance with LSB 3.1 standard as the main criteria because that's what all the standard is for... All serious Linuxes should implement this standard. Linuxes that are closiest to the imlementation of the LSB 3.1 are: Xandros, Red Hat, Novel, Ubuntu. Also Debian Common Core (DCC) Alliance - this means all Linuxes based on the stable Debian 3.1 (Sarge) are aiming at LSB 3.1. The DCC includes Knoppix, LinEx, Linspire, etc... ---------------------------------------------- Thanks for this great info Viktoras! Of course the adoption of such standards is very important, and we might presume that eventually various Linuxes will adhere to them. However, "ordinary" (non-geeky) users such as myself are more worried about whether they can use PPT, DOC, AVI, MP3, MPG,.......and (dare I mention it?) MIDI files as they might have done using Windows, with easily-installable utility programs for displaying/editing them, and without hassle regarding broken packages, missing codecs, etc. I am not sure to what degree these things are provided for in the LSB 3.1 standard, but what I do know is that so far I have not managed to play such files in the great majority of the Linuxes I have tried. What I suggested at the beginning of this thread is that perhaps Rev could consider this aspect seriously before giving its "seal of approval". In the last analysis, it's not much good if a given Linux distro theoretically supports a standard, but in the reality of its practice it either does not adhere to the standard, or regardless of the standard, produces a lousy Linux in this respect. In other words, a distro needs to prove itself to be good in real terms before Rev is prepared to recommend that its users should write programs for it. But perhaps I am asking a lot....... Certainly, Rev getting luvvy-duvvy with one or more of the Linux producers (as I recommended a long time ago) would on the face of it be beneficial to both parties, and if Rev and Ubuntu got married to some degree, or even had a passing love-affair, I would, like you, be a happy man. Regards, Bob From brucegregory at earthlink.net Thu Jul 6 20:14:07 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607061708p4ee2d09g3548491569d62a30@mail.gmail.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607060002p2e460c39gd7c0476e4baa0e68@mail.gmail.com> <5194878.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607061708p4ee2d09g3548491569d62a30@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5209680.post@talk.nabble.com> Dan: I'd like to continue our Smalltalk/Squeak discussion, but not necessarily on this thread or on this forum. I still have a few questions regarding some small but specific functionality. Would this be acceptable to you? Thanks for your encouragement and direction, Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5209680 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jul 6 20:19:50 2006 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:19:50 -0500 Subject: Of Lists and Dependence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44ADA8A6.2040008@hyperactivesw.com> Scott Rossi wrote: > Execute the following in your Revolution message box: > > go url "http://www.i-view.net/tactile/noiz.rev" LOL!! Hint taken. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 20:23:12 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:23:12 -0700 Subject: Dependence on programming experts In-Reply-To: <57b.25755a.31def1eb@aol.com> References: <57b.25755a.31def1eb@aol.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607061723p616b7b90n5c166f81ad0d491c@mail.gmail.com> Without putting too fine a point on things or getting into YARLW (Yet Another Religious Language War), Transcript is object-LIKE, just as HyperCard was. It may some day become fully object oriented but OO is only useful in the context of a much larger development universe than what most of us use it for anyway. On 7/6/06, Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote: > > Regarding Revolution and object-oriented programming, it seems to me > that > Revolution, which I have been actively using for the past two years, does > do > that since one can save useful scripts (sometimes long, complex ones) from > one > application and apply in another without having to start from scratch. > Indeed, I have been saving a number of scripts that participants in this > panel have > suggested over the past two years and found them helpful in a number of > different projects. It is sort of like having a collection of clip art > objects > that one can combine to create different works of art. > Steve Goldberg > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 20:25:01 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:25:01 -0700 Subject: Dependence on programming experts In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607061723p616b7b90n5c166f81ad0d491c@mail.gmail.com> References: <57b.25755a.31def1eb@aol.com> <70ed6b130607061723p616b7b90n5c166f81ad0d491c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607061725p59ee600fq421dca173e3e5a09@mail.gmail.com> Greg...... This is the best idea I personally can come up with after reading this whole thread twice. You should find a tool that lets you design and prototype your ideas. Then hire someone (or find a technical partner who will share the revenue with you) to do the actual coding. Your concepts are very high-level and (frankly) pretty darned exciting. But my sense from reading between the lines here is that you'll enjoy the design and architecture process a hell of a lot more than you'll enjoy programming regardless of the tool or language you choose. FWIW -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 20:25:58 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:25:58 -0700 Subject: Dreamhost? In-Reply-To: References: <13814343234.20060706124611@ahsoftware.net> <70ed6b130607061359p17a62561j425cc55be5d58368@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607061725g681860b4r54fef89e0d877cf6@mail.gmail.com> Dreamhost is cheap, reliable, well supported, and flexible. It doesn't incorporate Valentina but I'm sure you could deploy Valentina on its servers. On 7/6/06, Jared Smith wrote: > > Is there a reason Dreamhost is popular? I've been looking for an easy > way to buy some hosting and use a Valentina database, but I don't see > too many hosting providers having that built-in other than MacServe... > > On 7/6/06, Dan Shafer wrote: > > Stephen Barncard turned me on to Dreamhost over a year ago and I am a > > delighted client. > > > > I seem to recall getting Rev CGI working there at one point but as I > recall > > I had some problem doing so. Stephen may be able to be more specific. > > > > But for hosting, these guys are great. > > > > On 7/6/06, Mark Wieder wrote: > > > > > > All- > > > > > > I'm interested in getting away from JaguarPC's crappy hosting and > > > considering Dreamhost because I know there's some experience here on > > > the list with it, I like the fact that it's got RoR already installed, > > > and I like the features matrix. Any comments pro or con Dreamhost, > > > especially as a rev cgi host? > > > > > > -- > > > -Mark Wieder > > > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-revolution mailing list > > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author > > http://www.shafermedia.com > > Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" > > >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From soapdog at mac.com Thu Jul 6 20:43:54 2006 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 21:43:54 -0300 Subject: Dreamhost? In-Reply-To: <13814343234.20060706124611@ahsoftware.net> References: <13814343234.20060706124611@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <5C8C3351-11FC-42FC-874B-274523D6CF12@mac.com> Mark, I use JaguarPC everyday and with Rev, what is your problem there, maybe I can help... Cheers andre On Jul 6, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > All- > > I'm interested in getting away from JaguarPC's crappy hosting and > considering Dreamhost because I know there's some experience here on > the list with it, I like the fact that it's got RoR already installed, > and I like the features matrix. Any comments pro or con Dreamhost, > especially as a rev cgi host? > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Thu Jul 6 21:16:04 2006 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 18:16:04 -0700 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <44AD9608.90907@howsoft.com> Message-ID: <002401c6a162$eb512b30$6401a8c0@lynn> Hi Bob, > I'm not sure what you are asking either. If you are referring > to what I said at the beginning of the thread, I would > certainly not want Rev to test on only one version of Linux. > However, what I did suggest was special attention to a > restricted set of Linuxes (for various technical reasons), at > least at the moment. I don't think its really feasible to shoot broadly at all Linuxes - certainly a short list get the lion's share of attention and SuSE and RedHat wouldn't be too far off the mark for special attention. > As for the sentence about Rev missing the boat, what I meant > was that just as Rev failed to scoop up great numbers of VB6 > orphans (of which I am one), it seems that they are also > failing to satisfy their users requiring an embedded browser > (in stark contrast to Realbasic). Note too that this question > has a direct relationship with recent discussions on the > UR-List regarding the use of the Internet, multimedia > delivery, embedding Rev stacks in browsers, etc. The only > difference is that the provision of an altBrowser-type > embedded browser is much more fundamental. > > Regarding Realbasic's support of SUSE, I am not yet in a > position to give an opinion on whether it is a good or a bad > thing. What I do know regarding their embedded browser > (called "HTMLview") is that not only is it guaranteed to work > on SUSE, it also works great on my (unsupported) Ubuntu. > That's 100% better than I can do with Rev at the moment. The lack of a browser control in Rev is...a lack :-) We feel it. Since Altuit has been there to fill that need, its had a lower priority. I don't know what exactly needs to be fixed for Altbrowser to do its thing on Linux but Im sure when Linux gets the attention it needs, Chipp wont be shy about reminding us :-) Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Worldwide Business Operations Runtime Revolution, Ltd From brucegregory at earthlink.net Thu Jul 6 21:20:18 2006 From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (GregSmith) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 18:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dependence on programming experts In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607061725p59ee600fq421dca173e3e5a09@mail.gmail.com> References: <57b.25755a.31def1eb@aol.com> <70ed6b130607061723p616b7b90n5c166f81ad0d491c@mail.gmail.com> <70ed6b130607061725p59ee600fq421dca173e3e5a09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5210229.post@talk.nabble.com> Dan: I'd be open to any suggestions regarding which prototyping tool to use and who you would recommend for collaboration. I'd still like to speak more with you about Squeak. Thanks, Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-programming-experts-tf1903486.html#a5210229 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. From lynn at paradigmasoft.com Thu Jul 6 21:22:17 2006 From: lynn at paradigmasoft.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 18:22:17 -0700 Subject: Dependence on Programming Experts In-Reply-To: <49f2cc138eaf158f61624de0719ee373@mac.com> Message-ID: <002b01c6a163$d5f909a0$6401a8c0@lynn> > You may want to take a look at the Myst like game "Aida" > written in Revolution > > I don't know how much programming author had to do, but he > claims that it took him about a week to get started > developing this game in Revolution and the web link above has > a "case study" and game making Tutorial that may give you > some insights. Something Id like to point out also is that the Adventure Creator template in RevMedia was created after looking at both Myst and Alida. One item that didn't make it in the first release was a dialog management system - something that's currently a topic of discussion on the RevMedia forum. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Worldwide Business Operations Runtime Revolution, Ltd From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Thu Jul 6 22:33:25 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:33:25 -0700 Subject: Dreamhost? In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607061359p17a62561j425cc55be5d58368@mail.gmail.com> References: <13814343234.20060706124611@ahsoftware.net> <70ed6b130607061359p17a62561j425cc55be5d58368@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Mark - I host all things web at Dreamhost. They're great. I haven't had time to experiment with Rev there yet, but I'm sure they'd work with you better than most ISPs. Not to mention they have great bandwidth (fast), storage (huge!!) and support. Their control panel is versatile and easy to use. The cheapest plan is 9/mo but subscribing for a year is a little cheaper. If you need more, their 'code monster' plan is awesome. sqb >Stephen Barncard turned me on to Dreamhost over a year ago and I am a >delighted client. > >I seem to recall getting Rev CGI working there at one point but as I recall >I had some problem doing so. Stephen may be able to be more specific. > >But for hosting, these guys are great. > >On 7/6/06, Mark Wieder wrote: >> >>All- >> >>I'm interested in getting away from JaguarPC's crappy hosting and >>considering Dreamhost because I know there's some experience here on >>the list with it, I like the fact that it's got RoR already installed, >>and I like the features matrix. Any comments pro or con Dreamhost, >>especially as a rev cgi host? >> >>-- >>-Mark Wieder -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 23:33:39 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 20:33:39 -0700 Subject: Dependence on programming experts In-Reply-To: <5210229.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <57b.25755a.31def1eb@aol.com> <70ed6b130607061723p616b7b90n5c166f81ad0d491c@mail.gmail.com> <70ed6b130607061725p59ee600fq421dca173e3e5a09@mail.gmail.com> <5210229.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607062033le64c1e6yaa04ed7c8ce425d9@mail.gmail.com> Greg..... I'll take that discussion offlist. IT's definitely OT for this group. Dan On 7/6/06, GregSmith wrote: > > > Dan: > > I'd be open to any suggestions regarding which prototyping tool to use and > who you would recommend for collaboration. I'd still like to speak more > with you about Squeak. > > Thanks, > > Greg Smith > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-programming-experts-tf1903486.html#a5210229 > Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From rishi at puredata.com.au Thu Jul 6 23:36:20 2006 From: rishi at puredata.com.au (Rishi Viner) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 13:36:20 +1000 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <2e0cf4750607061338w714ae9edy6a8abf4b07d3771a@mail.gmail.com> References: <44AD5E5F.8070108@fourthworld.com> <2e0cf4750607061338w714ae9edy6a8abf4b07d3771a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200607071336.21077.rishi@puredata.com.au> On Friday 07 July 2006 06:38, chris bohnert wrote: > You'll get my gentoo box when you pry it from my cold dead hands. Here here! And hello fellow Gentoo user! Bob Warren: "1. The distro runs or installs automatically (i.e. can be done by a layman) and configures all normal hardware, even on old machines, including Windows network printers, floppy diskette drives, etc." On the face of it, Gentoo fails your point 1 dismally! Gentoo is anything but a nice automated install. BUT in terms of hardware support, Gentoo will find a way, where many other distros have failed time and again. I ended up first installing Gentoo primarily due to other distros not being able to handle my hardware. I learnt a lot along the way and think Gentoo is the best distro at forcing you to actually learn how linux works. The point is, diversity is the strength of Linux. There will always pop into existence a distro that does what a certain group of users needs (no matter how small). The best thing is there is always choice. Something the Mac/Win models have always lacked. -- Rishi Viner -------------- Australia From robinsongroup at verizon.net Thu Jul 6 23:41:10 2006 From: robinsongroup at verizon.net (Michael Robinson) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:41:10 -0700 Subject: standalone application problem Message-ID: I am having a problem with Revolution 2.7.2 that I never had with previous versions! After building a standalone application and opening it, the main stack seems to works OK, it is when you create a new file ( cloning of a sub-stack ) the new file is created but does not work just right, almost like it does not know who it is or where is located. 1) It will not open a drawer that is in a preopenstack handler until it is closed and reopened 1 time, but it will open the drawer from the menu the first time. 2) It will create a new document when the file is created, but will not import information from another file until it is opened & closed 2 times. This is driving me crazy! PowerBook G4 15" System Version: Mac OS X 10.4.7 (8J135) I would appreciate some help Thanks, Mike From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 23:55:08 2006 From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 13:55:08 +1000 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <200607071336.21077.rishi@puredata.com.au> References: <44AD5E5F.8070108@fourthworld.com> <2e0cf4750607061338w714ae9edy6a8abf4b07d3771a@mail.gmail.com> <200607071336.21077.rishi@puredata.com.au> Message-ID: On 7/7/06, Rishi Viner wrote: > On Friday 07 July 2006 06:38, chris bohnert wrote: > > You'll get my gentoo box when you pry it from my cold dead hands. > > Here here! And hello fellow Gentoo user! > > Bob Warren: > "1. The distro runs or installs automatically (i.e. can be done by a > layman) and configures all normal hardware, even on old machines, > including Windows network printers, floppy diskette drives, etc." > > On the face of it, Gentoo fails your point 1 dismally! Gentoo is anything but > a nice automated install. BUT in terms of hardware support, Gentoo will find > a way, where many other distros have failed time and again. I ended up first > installing Gentoo primarily due to other distros not being able to handle my > hardware. I learnt a lot along the way and think Gentoo is the best distro at > forcing you to actually learn how linux works. > > The point is, diversity is the strength of Linux. There will always pop into > existence a distro that does what a certain group of users needs (no matter > how small). The best thing is there is always choice. Something the Mac/Win > models have always lacked. Anyone who wants a laugh might like a look at the "Crazy Ubuntu Rumors Site" :-) Cheers, Sarah P.S. Don't follow the link if you are offended by swearing. From sunshine at public.kherson.ua Fri Jul 7 01:33:47 2006 From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 08:33:47 +0300 Subject: Dreamhost? In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607061725g681860b4r54fef89e0d877cf6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 7/7/06 3:25 AM, "Dan Shafer" wrote: Hi Jared, Hi Dan, > Dreamhost is cheap, reliable, well supported, and flexible. It doesn't > incorporate Valentina but I'm sure you could deploy Valentina on its > servers. > On 7/6/06, Jared Smith wrote: >> >> Is there a reason Dreamhost is popular? I've been looking for an easy >> way to buy some hosting and use a Valentina database, but I don't see >> too many hosting providers having that built-in other than MacServe... I think this will require OS X or Windows dedicated server. You can see that host providers mainly use mySQL. Even Postgre is far far away from mySQL... mainly because of historical reasons I think. -- Best regards, Ruslan Zasukhin VP Engineering and New Technology Paradigma Software, Inc Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information http://www.paradigmasoft.com [I feel the need: the need for speed] From rishi at puredata.com.au Fri Jul 7 02:17:19 2006 From: rishi at puredata.com.au (Rishi Viner) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:17:19 +1000 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <44AD604A.4090703@fourthworld.com> References: <44AD604A.4090703@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <200607071617.20145.rishi@puredata.com.au> On Friday 07 July 2006 05:11, Richard Gaskin wrote: > While I don't normally have much respect for RB marketing resources, > SUSE makes a lot of sense. > > This set of videos shows a seriousness about usability not often found > in other distros: > > > Sure, half of that is just OS X knockoffs, but if you're going to steal > ideas they might as well steal good ones. :) > > Favoring Novell also returns a favor to the Rev community: Novell has > published a series of articles about using Rev on SUSE: > > > > I'd agree that SuSE is one of the better commercial options. If you are installing office wide and need something well supported, this is a great option. Novell really do seem to be going in the right direction here. I have 4 people in my office working productively on SuSE desktops, and all coming from low computer literacy backgrounds. SuSE is one of the first distros to get to the stage where I would let people loose on it and expect to get productive work "just done". > Who knows? If enough of us pool our resources maybe we can push SUSE > enough to kill off most of the others, ultimately benefiting everyone.... Disagree with that. Choice is what makes Linux strong. What you should hope for is greater standards compliance across all the Linux families and desktop types... -- Rishi Viner -------------- Australia From rishi at puredata.com.au Fri Jul 7 02:33:57 2006 From: rishi at puredata.com.au (Rishi Viner) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:33:57 +1000 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <44AD5AC6.000001.01868@MAZYTIS> References: <44AD5156.9020806@howsoft.com> <44AD5AC6.000001.01868@MAZYTIS> Message-ID: <200607071633.57569.rishi@puredata.com.au> On Friday 07 July 2006 04:47, Viktoras Didziulis wrote: > I personally have Ubuntu linux (Debian family) installed on my laptop PC > and PC as the second OS. Talking about different families of Linux is probably more relevant. The differences often come down to the package manager, mainly. Red Hat - RPM Debian - APT Gentoo - Portage etc Most of the other distros come in to the category of someone wanting to take one of those frameworks and make a new distro from it by tailoring it for a particular use, eg server, desktop, home theater, nubie, guru, live CD, commercial, free only or just "I can do it better". They don't start from scratch but use another distro in the family and branch off from it. > Regarding the criterions I would suggest taking compliance with LSB 3.1 > standard as the main criteria because that's what all the standard is > for... All serious Linuxes should implement this standard. Good choice and more productive to back the standard than a particular distro. You would probably get more mileage from just stating the requirements for Rev, than by stating compliance with a given distro. The distros change regularly, if you state compliance with SuSE you had better maintain that even though SuSE will have new versions out many times per year with significant differences. E.g. audio should soon be jumping from Alsa to Jack, probably across many distros. My 2c. -- Rishi Viner -------------- Australia From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com Fri Jul 7 02:47:12 2006 From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:47:12 +1000 Subject: standalone application problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/7/06, Michael Robinson wrote: > I am having a problem with Revolution 2.7.2 that I never had with > previous versions! > After building a standalone application and opening it, the main > stack seems to works OK, it is when you create a new file ( cloning > of a sub-stack ) the new file is created but does not work just > right, almost like it does not know who it is or where is located. > > 1) It will not open a drawer that is in a preopenstack handler until > it is closed and reopened 1 time, but it will open the drawer from > the menu the first time. > > 2) It will create a new document when the file is created, but will > not import information from another file until it is opened & closed > 2 times. Hi Mike, I noticed you ask this a few days ago, but as I had no answers to give, I didn't respond. As you are now tearing your hair out, I'll suggest a few things to check. When you clone your sub-stack, does it appear OK? When you save it, does the save work? (check 'the result' after a save.) After saving, check "the filename" of your new stack. Is it saving in the default folder or are you specifying the complete path? When you try to open it again, do you specify the complete path? Remember that when you clone a stack, it is a mainStack and does not inherit the scripts from your original mainStack. You can allow for this, either by setting it's mainStack, or by "start using" your original mainStack so it is available to all stacks, whether they are it's own sub-stacks or not. Is the preOpenStack message passed when you clone a stack? Maybe you need to send it a few ticks after the cloning. After cloning, try delaying subsequent things using send in time and see if that helps. As you can see, I don't really have any great ideas, but these thoughts may get you started towards a diagnosis. Cheers, Sarah From chipp at chipp.com Fri Jul 7 03:12:14 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 02:12:14 -0500 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <200607071633.57569.rishi@puredata.com.au> References: <44AD5156.9020806@howsoft.com> <44AD5AC6.000001.01868@MAZYTIS> <200607071633.57569.rishi@puredata.com.au> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607070012x7d3a2a3es8f7ee74b5c300929@mail.gmail.com> Bob, Regarding altBrowser for Linux. We do have something running in the labs right now. But really, is there enough of an installed user base of Rev developers in Linux to make it a commercially viable product? Besides, aren't most Linux users wanting NOT TO PAY for stuff? Are you willing to shell out, say $200 for such an add-on? If not, what is the 'right price?' Frankly, it's pretty hard making any kind of money developing add-ons for Rev in the Mac/PC space, much less than Linux. Just because there is one or two loud voices, doesn't mean there is a business opportunity for us in Linux. In the words of Latrell Spreewell, "I've got a family to feed!" -Chipp From geradamas at yahoo.com Fri Jul 7 03:42:52 2006 From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 00:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <20060707074252.35752.qmail@web37508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think that the word 'Linux' (or, if we want to be picky 'Gnu-Linux') is becoming increasingly distracting! I have customers who come to me because they (like 95% of Bulgarians) have a "P" copy of Windows on their PC and are just waking up (!!!), mainly stimulated by the marching feet of the European Community. If I use the word 'Linux' it is almost as bad as offering a Hasidic chap a bacon sandwich - they go "all funny" and that is the end of my chance. So (what a 'naughty' fellow I am) I tell them that I have a number of OpenSource OS's available that I can install, and then I name them: "Ubuntu", "Kubuntu", "Puppy", "Tilix" and so on; then tell them what software packages are installed with each OS and their capabilities. My customers don't know about Linux, don't care, and just want me to get their PC up and running with the capabilities it had when running Windows before cops get to them and fine them $5,000 and confiscate their PC: and with the -buntu family I can honestly say I can do that very quickly indeed. The other day I went to buy a Logitech mouse and on the box it has a Windows and a Mac symbol so I knew it would work with both those OS's - now had it has an Ubuntu (for example) symbol I would have felt even better. Had it had TUX I would have felt queasy; very queasy; as I feel comfortable with Debian-derived systems - but not other Linux systems. So we need "seals of Approval" for OS's. not some vague term that covers a multitude of things. sincerely, Richmond Mathewson ____________________________________________________________ "Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the fluidity of meanings users attach to words and phrases." Mathewson, 2006 ____________________________________________________________ From livfoss at mac.com Fri Jul 7 04:28:39 2006 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:28:39 +0200 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <094C431B-2903-4E18-8F52-DA2B456B5D57@mac.com> As someone who has only used any kind of Unix in a protected environment (I mean protected by human beings, who provided me with a WIMP interface to keep me quiet), I am quietly horrified by this discussion. If there are so many different flavours of the thing (distros and maybe even more signs of divergence - I mean, I don't even know what RunRev mean on the web site when they say "Revolution supports Unix, Linux,..."), what remains constant? How can the *nix world really expect to take over the desktop if an ordinary punter (at whatever level of need or professionalism) can't tell if their software/ hardware/ UI/ interoperability is likely to be catered for? Have I got this completely wrong? How can diversity be its strength, as some are saying? Doesn't that mean that any support resources - free or paid for - will be stretched infinitely thin? This is relevant to Rev insofar as what has been discussed in this thread seems to point to a bottomless pit of resource requirements for the unfortunate developers of Runtime Revolution. If this perception even partly reflects reality, then the "Seal of Approval" idea sounds great to me, simply because it means that scarce resources will be concentrated in fewer areas. Can someone who has no 'religious position' on a particular flavour of Unix clarify this for the rest of us? Graham ---------------------------------------- Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Fri Jul 7 04:37:46 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 01:37:46 -0700 Subject: send "subCheckNow" to me, or? In-Reply-To: <094C431B-2903-4E18-8F52-DA2B456B5D57@mac.com> References: <094C431B-2903-4E18-8F52-DA2B456B5D57@mac.com> Message-ID: <44AE1D5A.8020506@paraboliclogic.com> Rev 2.6.1 / OS X Greetings, Is it better to use "send" or just use the name of the handler? on subCheckNow -- do stuff here send "subCheckNow" to me end subCheckNow Or this? on subCheckNow -- do stuff here subCheckNow end subCheckNow Is the second even allowed? And, if it is allowed, is their any ill effects from doing this? Thanks, -Garrett From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Jul 7 04:46:12 2006 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 01:46:12 -0700 Subject: send "subCheckNow" to me, or? In-Reply-To: <44AE1D5A.8020506@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: Recently, Garrett Hylltun wrote: > Is it better to use "send" or just use the name of the handler? > > on subCheckNow > -- do stuff here > send "subCheckNow" to me > end subCheckNow > > Or this? > > on subCheckNow > -- do stuff here > subCheckNow > end subCheckNow > > > Is the second even allowed? And, if it is allowed, is their any ill > effects from doing this? I thought you might end up with recursion in the second option, but apparently the script compiler doesn't like option 2. So the answer to your question seems to be: stick with option 1. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From mark at maseurope.net Fri Jul 7 04:56:12 2006 From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:56:12 +0100 Subject: send "subCheckNow" to me, or? In-Reply-To: <44AE1D5A.8020506@paraboliclogic.com> References: <094C431B-2903-4E18-8F52-DA2B456B5D57@mac.com> <44AE1D5A.8020506@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: <3D8F8E3C-8D16-4872-BDD6-C26BB58286ED@maseurope.net> The 2nd won't work, I'm pretty sure. I've used the 1st (usually send "subCheck" to me in n seconds) without problem. best, Mark On 7 Jul 2006, at 09:37, Garrett Hylltun wrote > Rev 2.6.1 / OS X > > Greetings, > > Is it better to use "send" or just use the name of the handler? > > on subCheckNow > -- do stuff here > send "subCheckNow" to me > end subCheckNow > > Or this? > > on subCheckNow > -- do stuff here > subCheckNow > end subCheckNow > > > Is the second even allowed? And, if it is allowed, is their any ill > effects from doing this? > > > Thanks, > -Garrett > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Fri Jul 7 05:02:47 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 02:02:47 -0700 Subject: send "subCheckNow" to me, or? In-Reply-To: <3D8F8E3C-8D16-4872-BDD6-C26BB58286ED@maseurope.net> References: <094C431B-2903-4E18-8F52-DA2B456B5D57@mac.com> <44AE1D5A.8020506@paraboliclogic.com> <3D8F8E3C-8D16-4872-BDD6-C26BB58286ED@maseurope.net> Message-ID: <44AE2337.1010203@paraboliclogic.com> Mark Smith wrote: > The 2nd won't work, I'm pretty sure. I've used the 1st (usually send > "subCheck" to me in n seconds) without problem. [snip] Alrighty then, 1. it is! :-) Thanks a bunch Mark and Scott, -Garrett From precipice_intl at hotmail.com Fri Jul 7 05:31:34 2006 From: precipice_intl at hotmail.com (precipice development) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:31:34 +0000 Subject: MS-SQL Database problem Message-ID: Hi You may want to check out the convert function in SQL Server. You can issue these in your SQL statements that you pass to SQL Server. The cast function may also be of use. You can get more info from Books Online (BOL) for SQL Server. Books Online for SQL Server 2005 athttp://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/sql/2005/downloads/books.mspxBooks Online for SQL Server 2000 athttp://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/startsql/getstart_4fht.asp There is also a very short article at: http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/1469841 Regards Jerry Henzel > Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:34:49 -0700> From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com> Subject: Re: MS-SQL Database problem> > Ton-> > Monday, July 3, 2006, 9:37:30 AM, you wrote:> > > Hi, fellow Revolutionaires...> > > I have a strange problem:> > > I'm using RR 2.7.2 Enterprise on OS X 10.4.7> > > I'm connecting to a SQL Server through an ODBC connection, no problem> > so far.> > When I retrieve data from the SQL Server, all fields come over just> > fine, except DateTime fields...> > > There are 2 of these fields, each containing a value like "28-06-2006> > 00:00"> > > When I use the code below to get the data, the value I get for the> > date is truncated and changed to "2006-06-"...> > DateTime formats on SQLServer are IMO a bit weird, and I've run into> conversion problems with them before, too. Not just in rev. I believe> SQLServer by default uses MDY encoding, which might explain why it's> stopping when it gets to trying to convert the 28th month. You can> issue a DATEFORMAT command to SQLServer on a per-connection basis to> change this, no matter what format the dates are stored in:> > SET DATEFORMAT DMY> > -- > -Mark Wieder> mwieder at ahsoftware.net> > _______________________________________________> use-revolution mailing list> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care about in one place. http://www.live.com/getstarted From alex at tweedly.net Fri Jul 7 05:48:09 2006 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:48:09 +0100 Subject: send "subCheckNow" to me, or? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44AE2DD9.2070106@tweedly.net> Scott Rossi wrote: >Recently, Garrett Hylltun wrote: > > > >>Is it better to use "send" or just use the name of the handler? >> >> >> Short answer : Just use the name of the handler. Long answer : see below. >>on subCheckNow >> -- do stuff here >> send "subCheckNow" to me >>end subCheckNow >> >>Or this? >> >>on subCheckNow >> -- do stuff here >> subCheckNow >>end subCheckNow >> >> >>Is the second even allowed? And, if it is allowed, is their any ill >>effects from doing this? >> >> > >I thought you might end up with recursion in the second option, but >apparently the script compiler doesn't like option 2. So the answer to your >question seems to be: stick with option 1. > > > My script compiler doesn't object to it at all (Rev 2.6.1., WinXP). Did you maybe have both options in the script at the same time (in which case the script compiler would complain because there were two handlers with same name) ? The second option calls the handler directly - i.e. in the same execution context, so as written it is indeed infinite recursion. Of course in a real script, the "do something here" would contain the possibility of an early exit from the handler. Similarly,the first option will continue to send messages to itself indefinitely unless there is some code that can exit earlier in the handler. The docs say > Note: Using the send command is slower than directly executing the > commands using the normal message path. For best efficiency, use the > send command only when you want to delay the message or when the > handler you want to execute is not in the message path. Since you were sending to the same handler, it is in the message path, and also you had no delay specified - so it would seem you should never do option 1 in preference to option 2. NOTE that a ""delayed send" (such as "send xxx to me in N ticks") is commonly used, because it queues the message, and therefore affects the order of execution. As the docs say, > Important! Specifying a time can affect the order in which > statements are executed. If you don't specify a time, the message is > sent immediately, and any handler it triggers is completed before the > rest of the current handler is executed. If you use the send in time > form of the send command--even if you specify a time of zero > seconds--the current handler finishes executing before the message is > sent. but there seems to be no reason to use the "immediate" send to the same handler. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 04/07/2006 From tominjapan at excite.com Fri Jul 7 06:01:19 2006 From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 06:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dreamhost? Message-ID: <20060707100119.1E0CC9207F@xprdmxin.myway.com> Stephen Barncard gave me the heads up on Dreamhost. Do it. I've had rev cgi running from the get go (begining of this year) It was one of the conditions I gave for signing up--the human (actual humman) in support told me "If rev doesn't work, we'll give you a full refund". It worked (Linux engine--there has been some issues with the Rev corporation allowing the Linux engine to be distributed. Check the archives) I've also had instant success with rev cgi on iPowerweb (unix). However, Dreamhost wins handsdown for simple interface (minimal) and real human beings (often humorous) in support. cheers, tm _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From alex at tweedly.net Fri Jul 7 06:08:39 2006 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 11:08:39 +0100 Subject: Dreamhost? In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130607061359p17a62561j425cc55be5d58368@mail.gmail.com> References: <13814343234.20060706124611@ahsoftware.net> <70ed6b130607061359p17a62561j425cc55be5d58368@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44AE32A7.1030609@tweedly.net> Dan Shafer wrote: > Stephen Barncard turned me on to Dreamhost over a year ago and I am a > delighted client. > > I seem to recall getting Rev CGI working there at one point but as I > recall > I had some problem doing so. Stephen may be able to be more specific. > > But for hosting, these guys are great. > Stephen and Dan both recommended Dreamhost when I asked a while ago - and I've been delighted with them. Since I'm only doing this as a hobby, I went with the cheapest plan ($7.95 per month w/ a 2-year prepayment). More disk space than I have on my laptop, and enough bandwidth to keep me happy. I got Rev going as a cgi without much difficulty, following instructions someone posted to this list a while ago - search the archives (if you don't find it, let me know and I'll see if I kept a local copy of the instructions). See http://www.tweedly.org/revbin/test1.cgi > #!./revolution.x86 -ui > > on startup > put "the params = " & q(the params)& cr \ > & "system version = " & urlDecode(the systemVersion) & cr \ > & "version = " & the version & cr \ > & "build = " & the buildNumber & cr \ > & "machine = " & the machine & cr \ > into tList > > get the globals > repeat for each item tLine in it > put tLine && "=" && value(tLine) & cr after tList > end repeat > replace cr with "
" in tList > > put "Content-Type: text/html" & cr & cr \ > & "Your ip is:" && $REMOTE_ADDR & "
" \ > & tList > end startup > > > function q pPhrase > return quote & pPhrase & quote > end q -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 04/07/2006 From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com Fri Jul 7 08:26:16 2006 From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 09:26:16 -0300 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: <7aa52a210607041944h69f5d6rd739fe8f055a11e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: True to a point... In a technical business, there must some kind of synergy between technical and marketing. For MS, Gates had the huge market built for him thru IBM opening the architecture to clones. Jobs had the solidness of the system architecture - deeply integrated operating system with the hardware, standards for the GUI that were not only used by Apple but published to developers with the promise that their app would always run on a Mac if they adhered to the standards and Guy Kawasaki, who built the niche. Technically speaking, the Mac, even using the Intel chip, is light-years ahead of the PC. Anyone who thinks that buying a PC today running Windows isn't buying a computer still running DOS only has to look at the monitor when it crashes. I just purchased an LG monitor for my Powerbook. It came with a 4 page manual for installing the drivers in the various versions of Windows. I just plugged it into my Mac and started using it. Both Gates and Jobs did a superb job of marketing. Gates in convincing the PC was on the leading edge and Jobs in ignoring the status quo and building his niche. Jobs is the true visionary. What's his vision? It was stated 20 some odd years ago and I think is still true - Jobs believes there is no reason why a personal computer shouldn't be as easy or common to use as a toaster. Remember that? Jim on 7/4/06 11:44 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: > Kay, > > Great point. Fact is, marketing is where Jobs truly shines! > > On 7/2/06, Kay C Lan wrote: > >> My point exactly. How many other CEO out there can make so much money out of >> such irrelevance. From a technological standpoint, truly embarrassing. From >> a marketing standpoint, head a shoulders, world record, Gold medal, hall of >> fame never to be forgotten kinda of stuff. > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 From asgg35 at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jul 7 08:27:10 2006 From: asgg35 at dsl.pipex.com (Chris Carroll-Davis) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 13:27:10 +0100 Subject: Font Menu Message-ID: Hello again. Is there a simple way of implementing a font/size menu? I'm *sure* this must have been asked before, but I can't find any references to it. I was hoping that it might be able to create it automatically like the File, Edit and Help options in the Menu Builder. (I can dream can't I?) Or do I have to use the FontNames function to roll my own? I'm hoping that some kind soul might be able to point me toward an existing example because I'm sure I am reinventing the wheel here!! I am half expecting someone to (politely) say look at XYZ in the docs you dope... Best regards, Chris From asgg35 at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jul 7 09:23:31 2006 From: asgg35 at dsl.pipex.com (Chris Carroll-Davis) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 14:23:31 +0100 Subject: Font Menu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Erhm. Ignore this. (*embarrassed cough*) Realised it is only 3 lines of code. :-) Chris On 7 Jul 2006, at 13:27, Chris Carroll-Davis wrote: > Hello again. > > Is there a simple way of implementing a font/size menu? > > I'm *sure* this must have been asked before, but I can't find any > references to it. I was hoping that it might be able to create it > automatically like the File, Edit and Help options in the Menu > Builder. (I can dream can't I?) > > Or do I have to use the FontNames function to roll my own? I'm > hoping that some kind soul might be able to point me toward an > existing example because I'm sure I am reinventing the wheel here!! > > I am half expecting someone to (politely) say look at XYZ in the > docs you dope... > > Best regards, > > Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From ray at linkitonline.com Fri Jul 7 08:50:17 2006 From: ray at linkitonline.com (Ray Horsley) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:50:17 -0400 Subject: Modifying Keyboard Shortcuts in Script Editor In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060706142555.06186068@exchange.slg.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20060706142555.06186068@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: Anybody have a quick-and-easy way to modify keyboard shortcuts in the menubar which comes up when Rev's Script Editor is opened in the debugging mode? For example, it's extremely time consuming to step through a script without keyboard shortcuts for Step Over, Step Into, and Run. Thanks, Ray Horsley Developer, LinkIt! Software Revolution 2.7.2 Mac OSX 10.3.8 From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Fri Jul 7 10:59:06 2006 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 07:59:06 -0700 Subject: Dreamhost? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think I saw somewhere on the Dreamhost site that they will give you a Windows server, CF etc. if you want now. They'll discourage it, but they'll do it and support it. >On 7/7/06 3:25 AM, "Dan Shafer" wrote: > >Hi Jared, >Hi Dan, > >> Dreamhost is cheap, reliable, well supported, and flexible. It doesn't >> incorporate Valentina but I'm sure you could deploy Valentina on its >> servers. > >> On 7/6/06, Jared Smith wrote: >>> >>> Is there a reason Dreamhost is popular? I've been looking for an easy >>> way to buy some hosting and use a Valentina database, but I don't see >>> too many hosting providers having that built-in other than MacServe... > >I think this will require OS X or Windows dedicated server. > >You can see that host providers mainly use mySQL. > >Even Postgre is far far away from mySQL... >mainly because of historical reasons I think. > >-- >Best regards, > >Ruslan Zasukhin -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - From rcozens at pon.net Fri Jul 7 11:00:06 2006 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:00:06 -0700 Subject: [OT] Market Share In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jim, et al: I'm in agreement with everything you said except this: >Technically speaking, the Mac, even using the Intel chip, is light-years >ahead of the PC. If you're speaking of internal architecture, I'm not qualified to judge. If you're speaking of technology delivered to the user, what Mac system delivers -- * Ink input (out of the box) * Handwriting recognition (out of the box) * Voice to text (after voice training) * Spoken commands (after voice training) * Fingerprint recognition (standard on at least on some TPC models) -- for virtually all applications (I've tested) except RunTime Revolution? Dell, Gateway, IBM and most major PC manufactures are selling Tablet PC technology today. If, indeed, Jobs is focused on iPod and colored computers, when would you expect to see a Mac with Tablet PC capabilities come to market? -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From scott at elementarysoftware.com Fri Jul 7 11:16:43 2006 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:16:43 -0700 Subject: no matches... anyone got a light? Message-ID: <2D577404-2996-461E-972E-35E84455D4DB@elementarysoftware.com> This seems a no-brainer but I've stalled. I'm reading names from a text file and then creating files based on these names. I'd like to check and see if the file already exists before creating a new one. The text files were created in BBEdit. I unable to figure out why I can't cause a match using my data. I've looked at the variables in the debugger and even run charToNum comparisons ( everyone seems to be using the ascii 10 LF.) But even though it seem like it should match... it don't. if tName is among the lines of tPreExisitingFiles then -- never gets here end if alternately I tried set the wholematches to true if lineOffset(tName,tPreExisitingFiles) <> 0 then -- never gets here end if Anything else I should check? -Scott Morrow Elementary Software (Now with 20% less chalk dust !) web http://elementarysoftware.com/ email scott at elementarysoftware.com From soapdog at mac.com Fri Jul 7 11:48:35 2006 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:48:35 -0300 Subject: no matches... anyone got a light? In-Reply-To: <2D577404-2996-461E-972E-35E84455D4DB@elementarysoftware.com> References: <2D577404-2996-461E-972E-35E84455D4DB@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: Scott, I don't know why it is not working, but check the filter command... if you filter the var by a name, then, if the name is not there, it becomes empty, so you can simply filter and check for empty... it might work, it's a hack, but it might just work for you! Andre On Jul 7, 2006, at 12:16 PM, Scott Morrow wrote: > This seems a no-brainer but I've stalled. I'm reading names from a > text file and then creating files based on these names. I'd like > to check and see if the file already exists before creating a new > one. The text files were created in BBEdit. I unable to figure > out why I can't cause a match using my data. I've looked at the > variables in the debugger and even run charToNum comparisons > ( everyone seems to be using the ascii 10 LF.) But even though it > seem like it should match... it don't. > > > if tName is among the lines of tPreExisitingFiles then > -- never gets here > end if > > alternately I tried > > set the wholematches to true > if lineOffset(tName,tPreExisitingFiles) <> 0 then > -- never gets here > end if > > Anything else I should check? > > > -Scott Morrow > > Elementary Software > (Now with 20% less chalk dust !) > web http://elementarysoftware.com/ > email scott at elementarysoftware.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From FlexibleLearning at aol.com Fri Jul 7 11:48:54 2006 From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:48:54 EDT Subject: Programming Clip-Art Message-ID: <4bc.3b96133.31dfdc66@aol.com> >Indeed, I have been saving a number of scripts that participants in this panel >have suggested over the past two years and found them helpful in a number >of different projects. It is sort of like having a collection of clip art objects >that one can combine to create different works of art. I like the analogy! You may like to try the Scripter's Scrapbook which provides all the point-and-click tools needed to maintain and grow your own collection of such items... www.FlexibleLearning.com/ssbk.htm /H From alex at tweedly.net Fri Jul 7 12:22:55 2006 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 17:22:55 +0100 Subject: no matches... anyone got a light? In-Reply-To: <2D577404-2996-461E-972E-35E84455D4DB@elementarysoftware.com> References: <2D577404-2996-461E-972E-35E84455D4DB@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: <44AE8A5F.2060000@tweedly.net> Scott Morrow wrote: > This seems a no-brainer but I've stalled. I'm reading names from a > text file and then creating files based on these names. I'd like to > check and see if the file already exists before creating a new one. > The text files were created in BBEdit. I unable to figure out why I > can't cause a match using my data. I've looked at the variables in > the debugger and even run charToNum comparisons ( everyone seems to > be using the ascii 10 LF.) But even though it seem like it should > match... it don't. > > > if tName is among the lines of tPreExisitingFiles then > -- never gets here > end if > > alternately I tried > > set the wholematches to true > if lineOffset(tName,tPreExisitingFiles) <> 0 then > -- never gets here > end if > > Anything else I should check? > File separator issue ? (i.e. "/" vs "\" vs ":") How is the list of files generated ? Whole path versus just the file name ? Send a sample of the file that you read ... maybe someone will spot something ? or try if there is a file "tName" then -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 04/07/2006 From smith.sgt at gmail.com Fri Jul 7 12:22:56 2006 From: smith.sgt at gmail.com (Jared Smith) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:22:56 -0400 Subject: Font Menu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Could you let me know what that is for future refrence? I have no idea how to do it. On 7/7/06, Chris Carroll-Davis wrote: > Erhm. > > Ignore this. (*embarrassed cough*) > > Realised it is only 3 lines of code. :-) > > Chris > > > > On 7 Jul 2006, at 13:27, Chris Carroll-Davis wrote: > > > Hello again. > > > > Is there a simple way of implementing a font/size menu? > > > > I'm *sure* this must have been asked before, but I can't find any > > references to it. I was hoping that it might be able to create it > > automatically like the File, Edit and Help options in the Menu > > Builder. (I can dream can't I?) > > > > Or do I have to use the FontNames function to roll my own? I'm > > hoping that some kind soul might be able to point me toward an > > existing example because I'm sure I am reinventing the wheel here!! > > > > I am half expecting someone to (politely) say look at XYZ in the > > docs you dope... > > > > Best regards, > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From bobs at twft.com Fri Jul 7 12:23:06 2006 From: bobs at twft.com (Robert Sneidar) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:23:06 -0700 Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 34, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: <20060707054625.527F38273BE@mail.runrev.com> References: <20060707054625.527F38273BE@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: HAAH HAAHA HAHA HAHA! Scott, you slay me! :-) Bob Sneidar IT Manager Logos Management Calvary Chapel CM On Jul 6, 2006, at 10:46 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > Execute the following in your Revolution message box: > > go url "http://www.i-view.net/tactile/noiz.rev" > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Jul 7 12:48:27 2006 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:48:27 -0700 Subject: SOT: JaguarPC hosting In-Reply-To: <5C8C3351-11FC-42FC-874B-274523D6CF12@mac.com> References: <13814343234.20060706124611@ahsoftware.net> <5C8C3351-11FC-42FC-874B-274523D6CF12@mac.com> Message-ID: <332283753.20060707094827@ahsoftware.net> Andre- Thursday, July 6, 2006, 5:43:54 PM, you wrote: > I use JaguarPC everyday and with Rev, what is your problem there, > maybe I can help... Yes, I know you're happy with your new VPS configuration. I was also quite happy to find that I could get rev installed as a cgi with no problems. My gripes re JaguarPC: They bill themselves as the "most reliable end-to-end host". In the three months I've been with them, my domain has gone down three times. The most serious of these involved my entire domain (web, email, etc) disappearing for three days. Their "Fast, Reliable RAID Storage" failed when the server hosting my domain crashed. The server couldn't be rebuilt, they replaced it, and discovered there were no backups. Then, instead of putting the new server online they proceeded to spend a couple of days fiddling with the backup systems to see if they could recover the files. Finally they sent out a notice telling everyone to configure their domains from scratch again. This would have been fine if they had done this from the start, but emails to me were bouncing during these three days since my domain had disappeared, and there was no server online to catch them. And this while I was busy making preparations for the conference. Their definition of "100% Network Uptime Guarantee" is, according to their support techs, that *their* network will be up all the time, not that my domain will be up and accessible. They had no problems supporting their claim of 100% uptime during the three days my site was offline. They have a quaint definition of "24/7 Technical Support": seven days a week you'll get an email answer to your question within 24 hours. This doesn't cut it for me. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From bobwarren at howsoft.com Fri Jul 7 13:31:57 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 14:31:57 -0300 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <44AE9A8D.5040402@howsoft.com> Thanks Chipp! Please excuse the snips, but it's the best way of answering. Chipp wrote: In the words of Latrell Spreewell, "I've got a family to feed!" ---------------- Most of us have a family to feed. Try doing it in a 3rd world country (where incidentally most computer users reside) where your salary might be between 10 and 100 times less than what it would be in the States. Chipp wrote: Are you willing to shell out, say $200 for such an add-on? --------------- If I had no alternative, then yes, I would be willing to shell out $200 for such an add-on. I need it that much, but I told you that more than a year ago. However, now I don't need to. Realbasic have bundled a browser with their IDE for free. Not only is an embedded browser a fundamental element in any general-purpose programming system nowadays, but it is also necessary in order to give credibility to Rev's description of their product as "cross-platform": after all, Windows and Mac have an altBrowser, so how can Linux be left out? In 1998 (eight years ago) VB6 didn't have anything else built in for dealing with the Internet, but at least they had an embedded browser. For you now to cast doubt on whether or not you intend to provide it for Rev Linux leaves me speechless. I suggest you take it off-list, have a nice friendly chat with Kevin, and see what you can work out. Chipp wrote: If not, what is the 'right price?' ---------------- I think that you and Kevin are more qualified to work that out than I am. The only thing I would suggest is that $200 is a bit steep. I am no salesman, but I do know that you can either sell a few things at a high price, or sell a lot of things at a low price. The trouble here is that Linux is definitely an emerging market, still only comparable to the Macintosh market in terms of numbers, but of course the Mac owners are the richest of us all! In my view, your immediate production of the altBrowser would represent: a) an investment in the future; b) a means of avoiding damage to RR, which is of course also an investment in the future of Altuit. All this depends on what you consider the future of Linux to be. And also what you consider the future of Windows to be. Personally, I think that Windows is dead, but that it will take a number of years to lie down. This may not happen in America, but there is no doubt in my mind about what is happening in the rest of the world - at an exponential rate now. If it helps, just think of all those billions of Chinese, Indians and Brazilians, an enormous - still only potential - market for Rev and Altuit together. Regards, Bob From chipp at chipp.com Fri Jul 7 13:54:27 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:54:27 -0500 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <44AE9A8D.5040402@howsoft.com> References: <44AE9A8D.5040402@howsoft.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607071054y5a3b0b2aya259b262c2a02c9b@mail.gmail.com> Bob, Enjoy RealBasic. Let us know how that works out for you. It didn't work out for the only other Brazilian I know. Oh, and check out the reference to Latrell Spreewell-- it was intended as a joke. best regards. Chipp From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Jul 7 14:08:16 2006 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 13:08:16 -0500 Subject: Modifying Keyboard Shortcuts in Script Editor In-Reply-To: References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20060706142555.06186068@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <44AEA310.8090105@hyperactivesw.com> Ray Horsley wrote: > Anybody have a quick-and-easy way to modify keyboard shortcuts in the > menubar which comes up when Rev's Script Editor is opened in the > debugging mode? For example, it's extremely time consuming to step > through a script without keyboard shortcuts for Step Over, Step Into, > and Run. > You know, I'd really advise against modifying the Rev IDE very much. It is a inter-dependent web of scripts with millions of lines of code, and changing any one thing can cause problems elsewhere -- at least until you've gone over all their code and have a good idea what you can change and what you can't. It would be very easy to break something without realizing it. There are keyboard shortcuts built-in to do most things anyway. The space bar steps into each line of script when debugging, shift-space steps over, command-period aborts, the Enter key applies a script, and two Enter keys applies and closes the editor. There are lots of other keyboard shortcuts available too, which you can look up by opening the documentation, and clicking the Search icon at the far right of the docs window. Hold down the mouse on the Dictionary button in the palette that appears, and choose Quick Reference Guides. You'll see a whole list of valuable info in there, including a shortcuts reference. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobwarren at howsoft.com Fri Jul 7 14:14:46 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 15:14:46 -0300 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <44AEA496.4030907@howsoft.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > The "Officially" supported linux distros are Mandriva, RedHat, SuSE, and Linspire. All of these are mentioned during the installation process. And on the runrev web site. ---------------------- I would suggest reviewing official support for Redhat (and Fedora). In my 2.6.1. Rev Linux (tgz, not Redhat), there is no installation. Consequently, there is no mention of these distros. As for the mention of them on the Rev website, I think I need to go and have another look. Thanks. BTW, I haven't forgotton about the fstab thing. I'll get back to you. Bob From troy_lists at rpsystems.net Fri Jul 7 14:20:41 2006 From: troy_lists at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 14:20:41 -0400 Subject: Modifying the IDE was:Modifying Keyboard Shortcuts in Script Editor In-Reply-To: <44AEA310.8090105@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5177178.post@talk.nabble.com> <7aa52a210607050053y50805c94w6e9c5c869a308464@mail.gmail.com> <5190992.post@talk.nabble.com> <44AC5439.9000709@paraboliclogic.com> <44AC79F7.6070401@hyperactivesw.com> <5194387.post@talk.nabble.com> <70ed6b130607052342t5faceb52o5a3032f3e250c111@mail.gmail.com> <5194690.post@talk.nabble.com> <5195060.post@talk.nabble.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20060706142555.06186068@exchange.slg.com> <44AEA310.8090105@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Jul 7, 2006, at 2:08 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > You know, I'd really advise against modifying the Rev IDE very > much. It is a inter-dependent web of scripts with millions of lines > of code, and changing any one thing can cause problems elsewhere -- > at least until you've gone over all their code and have a good idea > what you can change and what you can't. It would be very easy to > break something without realizing it. On the topic of modifying the IDE. Some years ago Jeanne Devoto and others helped me modify the message box to accumulate output, and have a scrolling field for it, which kept scrolled to the bottom. The output box was cleared via a command rather than on each entry. (This behavior is how Director's message window works, and I grew accustomed to it over the years.) Needless to say, after many Rev installations and updates, I've misplaced the scripts related to doing this. I remember it didn't involve much to do it, but every time I go back to see if I could figure out what was done, I tell myself not to mess in the IDE because I really don't know what I'm doing in there. Does anyone recall how this is done? Thanks. -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net From bobwarren at howsoft.com Fri Jul 7 14:25:07 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 15:25:07 -0300 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <44AEA703.1040203@howsoft.com> Rishi Viner wrote: > The point is, diversity is the strength of Linux. There will always pop into existence a distro that does what a certain group of users needs (no matter how small). The best thing is there is always choice. Something the Mac/Win models have always lacked. ------------------ I'll drink to that! Bob From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Fri Jul 7 14:35:15 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:35:15 -0700 Subject: Programming Clip-Art In-Reply-To: <4bc.3b96133.31dfdc66@aol.com> References: <4bc.3b96133.31dfdc66@aol.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607071135s27225bc8j68e361498993b701@mail.gmail.com> Let me jump in and endorse Scripter's Scrapbook. It has so many nifty script snippets and tips built in and then you can add your own easily. It's one of my most essential development tools. On 7/7/06, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote: > > >Indeed, I have been saving a number of scripts that participants in this > panel > >have suggested over the past two years and found them helpful in > a number > >of different projects. It is sort of like having a collection of clip > art > objects > >that one can combine to create different works of art. > > I like the analogy! > > You may like to try the Scripter's Scrapbook which provides all the > point-and-click tools needed to maintain and grow your own collection of > such items... > > www.FlexibleLearning.com/ssbk.htm > > /H > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com Fri Jul 7 14:38:15 2006 From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:38:15 -0700 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <44AEA703.1040203@howsoft.com> References: <44AEA703.1040203@howsoft.com> Message-ID: <70ed6b130607071138i4349a855xd606ac7229e264e9@mail.gmail.com> But surely you can see what a nightmare that creates for companies like RunRev, Altuit, and mine who may even *want* to deliver for Linux? I don't know much about the LSB standard but it sounds like that's a step in the right direction. Then the diversity at least diverges from a known starting point. On 7/7/06, Bob Warren wrote: > > Rishi Viner wrote: > > > The point is, diversity is the strength of Linux. There will always pop > into existence a distro that does what a certain group of users needs > (no matter how small). The best thing is there is always choice. > Something the Mac/Win models have always lacked. > ------------------ > I'll drink to that! > > Bob > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html From bobwarren at howsoft.com Fri Jul 7 14:53:05 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 15:53:05 -0300 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <44AEAD91.7000500@howsoft.com> Chipp Walters wrote: > Bob, Enjoy RealBasic. Let us know how that works out for you. It didn't work out for the only other Brazilian I know. Oh, and check out the reference to Latrell Spreewell-- it was intended as a joke. -------------------------------- I'm sure you would like to complement that answer, Chipp, since it is not really appropriate in relation to what I said (or at least intended to mean) in my post. I'll take it as an immediate emotional reaction to what is really quite a difficult situation to work out on your part. BTW, only my heart is Brazilian. I'm from London mate! Best, Bob From Stgoldberg at aol.com Fri Jul 7 15:24:17 2006 From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 15:24:17 EDT Subject: Scripter's handbook Message-ID: <2d4.a137c4a.31e00ee1@aol.com> In a message dated 7/7/06 2:26:34 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes: > >Indeed, I have been saving a number of scripts that participants in? this > panel > >have suggested over the past two years and found them helpful in a? number > >of different projects.?? It is sort of like having a? collection of clip > art > objects > >that one can combine to create different? works of art. > > I like the analogy! > > You may like to try the Scripter's Scrapbook which provides all the? > point-and-click tools needed to maintain and grow your own collection of > such? items... > > www.FlexibleLearning.com/ssbk.htm > Thanks for the tip. I've downloaded the Scripter's handbook at it looks great! Steve Goldberg www.medmaster.net From bobwarren at howsoft.com Fri Jul 7 15:41:02 2006 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 16:41:02 -0300 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" Message-ID: <44AEB8CE.70103@howsoft.com> Chipp: A practical suggestion: Why not start off altBrowser for Linux at a relatively high price (perhaps not quite $200 which is excessive), and then go diminishing the price as sales increase? I would certainly prefer to pay for it than to be actually forced to migrate to RB. Bob From chipp at chipp.com Fri Jul 7 15:58:29 2006 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 14:58:29 -0500 Subject: Rev for Linux "Seal of Approval" In-Reply-To: <44AEAD91.7000500@howsoft.com> References: <44AEAD91.7000500@howsoft.com> Message-ID: <7aa52a210607071258x4d7fcb10nec74fe1b570565b@mail.gmail.com> Bob, As I've said, we've actually done a good bit of work on altBrowser for Linux. Frankly, the external interface for RR on Linux is pretty bad. Just ask around. If we were to release altBrowser for Linux, I'm sure you wouldn't be satisfied-- and I doubt we would be either. I do believe Rev's external interface on Linux is due for an overhaul. All of that said, here's how I got around this very same problem years ago. I needed a browser for Rev. I hired someone to build it and paid them. If you're interested in doing the same, please contact me offlist. I was sincere in my best wishes for you to use RealBasic, as they obviously already have the solution you desire. And if it does work for you, please respond back to us with your findings. I am always interested in learning about others experiences using RAD tools, in fact just today I talked with Dan about Smalltalk. At this time, we do not have plans to sell an altBrowser for Linux in the near future. That of course, may change. Have a nice day, Chipp From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Fri Jul 7 16:02:57 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 13:02:57 -0700 Subject: send "subCheckNow" to me, or? In-Reply-To: <44AE2DD9.2070106@tweedly.net> References: <44AE2DD9.2070106@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <44AEBDF1.4000101@paraboliclogic.com> Alex Tweedly wrote: [snip] >> >>> Is it better to use "send" or just use the name of the handler? >>> [snip] >> > My script compiler doesn't object to it at all (Rev 2.6.1., WinXP). Did > you maybe have both options in the script at the same time (in which > case the script compiler would complain because there were two handlers > with same name) ? Greetings Alex, I actually didn't try the second option since I did not know if there would be any adverse effects of doing that. So I only had the first one running. > The second option calls the handler directly - i.e. in the same > execution context, so as written it is indeed infinite recursion. Of [snip] >> handler you want to execute is not in the message path. > > Since you were sending to the same handler, it is in the message path, > and also you had no delay specified - so it would seem you should never > do option 1 in preference to option 2. Before I try it I have one reservation which I note further down in this reply. > NOTE that a ""delayed send" (such as "send xxx to me in N ticks") is > commonly used, because it queues the message, and therefore affects the > order of execution. As the docs say, I've got a delay of 500 milliseconds at the top of the handler. This was the full handler that I was using: on subCheckNow wait for 500 milliseconds with messages -- < Delay here put field "fCounter" + 1 into field "fCounter" if field "fCounter" > 1800 and field "fAppMode" is "1" then get URL "http://www.411on911drivingschool.com/data/guestid.txt" put it into field "fResult" put "1" into field "fCounter" if field "fResult" is field "fPrevious" then put "Checked at: " & short time into field "fStatusLabel" else put field "fResult" - field "fPrevious" into varDiff put varDiff & " new message(s)" into field "fStatusLabel" put field "fResult" into field "fPrevious" set the visible of this stack to true put "4" into field "fAppMode" set the disabled of button "btnRefresh" to true set the disabled of button "btnDismiss" to true set the label of button "btnPause" to "Resume" play audioclip "tick.wav" wait 500 millisec play audioclip "tick.wav" wait 500 millisec play audioclip "tick.wav" wait 500 millisec play audioclip "tick.wav" wait 500 millisec play audioclip "warn1.wav" end if end if if field "fAppMode" is "1" then send "subCheckNow" to me in 1 tick -- < A 1 tick delay here end if if field "fAppMode" is "3" then close this stack end if end subCheckNow [snip] > > but there seems to be no reason to use the "immediate" send to the same > handler. What I was worried about is the fact that just using the handler name is kind of like doing a "GOSUB" in other languages, and that it expects to return to it's original calling handler when the new handler has completed. SEND seems like a "GOTO" and doesn't return to the calling handler. Unfortunately I did not find info in the docs that covered this aspect. What worries me more is, knowing that just calling the handler by name is like "GOSUB", is a queue being filled up in the engine, just waiting for the "GOSUB" like calls to be returned to their original calling points. And if they are not returned, what happens to the queue that has built up? And what will the engine do if that queue gets too large? I know that in other languages this would likely lead to a crash. I think at the moment I'd better stick to using send until I can find out whether the engine will get mucked up by using just the handler name. -Garrett From garrett at paraboliclogic.com Fri Jul 7 16:13:25 2006 From: garrett at paraboliclogic.com (Garrett Hylltun) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 13:13:25 -0700 Subject: Dreamhost? In-Reply-To: <20060707100119.1E0CC9207F@xprdmxin.myway.com> References: <20060707100119.1E0CC9207F@xprdmxin.myway.com> Message-ID: <44AEC065.3040202@paraboliclogic.com> Thomas McCarthy wrote: > Stephen Barncard gave me the heads up on Dreamhost. Do it. [snip] I posted in on the rev forums about this. I use pgware.com hosting and have been for sometime now. Due to this thread I thought I'd try rev on my server. It works but with only one catch. I could not get the cgi-bin directory to cooperate so I made a new directory named rev-bin and it worked fine from there. Plans start at about $5 usd a month at pgware and I've had no problems at all with the server or the service. The guy who runs it is a long time programming buddy of mine. But his operation is a small one and he does not have a large support team or anything like that. So support can be delayed anywhere from an hour to the next day depending on the time you submit for help. I'm sure he'd be more than flexible if you need something changed, tweaked or fixed. Also, the accounts come complete with CPanel which allows you a lot of options for your server, easy access to setting up forums and so on. http://pgware.com/solutions/hosting/ -Garrett From mark at maseurope.net Fri Jul 7 16:14:52 2006 From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 21:14:52 +0100 Subject: send "subCheckNow" to me, or? In-Reply-To: <44AEBDF1.4000101@paraboliclogic.com> References: <44AE2DD9.2070106@tweedly.net> <44AEBDF1.4000101@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: <8ABC9EA3-809E-406D-8A38-D660939200AB@maseurope.net> On 7 Jul 2006, at 21:02, Garrett Hylltun wrote: > I think at the moment I'd better stick to using send until I can > find out whether the engine will get mucked up by using just the > handler name. For doing what you're doing, I think 'send' is the way to go. Since you're putting waits in there anyway, any small speed advantage from not using 'send' is irrelevent anyway, and I think you would be buliding up a potentially enormous amount of recursion the other way, though you should get a 'too much recursion' error rather than a crash, as such. Best, Mark From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Jul 7 16:32:36 2006 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 15:32:36 -0500 Subject: send "subCheckNow" to me, or? In-Reply-To: <44AEBDF1.4000101@paraboliclogic.com> References: <44AE2DD9.2070106@tweedly.net> <44AEBDF1.4000101@paraboliclogic.com> Message-ID: <44AEC4E4.8070109@hyperactivesw.com> Garrett Hylltun wrote: > I've got a delay of 500 milliseconds at the top of the handler. This > was the full handler that I was using: > > on subCheckNow > wait for 500 milliseconds with messages -- < Delay here > put field "fCounter" + 1 into field "fCounter" > if field "fCounter" > 1800 and field "fAppMode" is "1" then > get URL "http://www.411on911drivingschool.com/data/guestid.txt" > put it into field "fResult" > put "1" into field "fCounter" > if field "fResult" is field "fPrevious" then > put "Checked at: " & short time into field "fStatusLabel" > else > put field "fResult" - field "fPrevious" into varDiff > put varDiff & " new message(s)" into field "fStatusLabel" > put field "fResult" into field "fPrevious" > set the visible of this stack to true > put "4" into field "fAppMode" > set the disabled of button "btnRefresh" to true > set the disabled of button "btnDismiss" to true > set the label of button "btnPause" to "Resume" > play audioclip "tick.wav" > wait 500 millisec > play audioclip "tick.wav" > wait 500 millisec > play audioclip "tick.wav" > wait 500 millisec > play audioclip "tick.wav" > wait 500 millisec > play audioclip "warn1.wav" > end if > end if > if field "fAppMode" is "1" then > send "subCheckNow" to me in 1 tick -- < A 1 tick delay here > end if > if field "fAppMode" is "3" then > close this stack > end if > end subCheckNow This example is differenet than the short one you posted, and is correctly written. For what you are doing, you should continue to use "send in