Scrollbar Covering Resizebox

Frank D. Engel, Jr. fde101 at
Mon Jan 3 16:03:49 EST 2005

Hash: SHA1

The 20-pixel thing refers to "controls" within a Window?  You probably 
need to distinguish between a window with "controls" and a "Document 

A "Document Window" provides a scrollable view of a single document.  
The title of the window is the name of the document.  A document window 
may provide a proxy icon, and *should* change its red "close" button to 
indicate whether or not a document has been modified.  The scrollable 
field in a document window would be looked on as a view of the 
document, and while technically it is a control, it would not be 
treated as such by the HIGs, at least not in the traditional sense.  So 
yes, that type of "control" should extend to the edges of the window.

OTOH, if the configuration of the stack being looked at does not match 
that of a document window, there should be a certain amount of 
whitespace around the window, as mentioned in the post quoted below.

As far as Apple violating that guideline, looking at TextEdit, etc. -- 
those are document windows.  The only window I can think of offhand 
where this is even a consideration is the primary Mail window, which 
represents a mailbox and provides a preview pane for each message.  Is 
the window a document window, where each mailbox is a document?  If so, 
the preview pane shows an individual message from the mailbox.  This is 
a matter of semantics: since the message is part of the mailbox, it 
could be considered correct for the field to extend to the edge of the 
window.  OTOH, since the message could also be looked on as "embedded" 
inside a mailbox (using the mailbox as a container for multiple 
messages, where each message is a separate component, or in other 
words, another document), perhaps there should be a border?  Depends on 
how you look at this, I guess; although I prefer it the way it is.  It 
kind of makes sense to treat that one as a document.

Is there another apparent violation I am not thinking of?

On Jan 3, 2005, at 2:21 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Mark Smith wrote:
>> This is on OS X.
>> I have a stack in which I want a field to reach all the way to the 
>> bottom of the window. This field is to contain text which will 
>> usually more than fill the field, so I need a scrollbar. The stack 
>> needs to be resizable, so when the field reaches to the bottom, the 
>> resize box of the window covers the down arrow at the bottom of the 
>> fields scrollbar.
> Is it necessary to have the field flush with the bottom of the window? 
> The OS X HIG suggests leaving a 20-pixel margin between the edge of a 
> window and the controls within it.
> While this may seem a waste of real estate at first, the more I work 
> with OS X (and the higher res displays on the more recent computers 
> that ship with it) the more I like having that white space to visually 
> distinguish between the work I'm doing in that window and the other 
> windows behind it.
> If the window has only a text field, we can join Apple in blowing off 
> their HIG and making the field flush with the edge of the window. 
> Because Rev scrollbars are bound to the height of the field, you might 
> consider moving the bottom of the field up 15px and using that space 
> for status information (a lot of my text apps include a character and 
> word count in that space, both solving my layout issue and providing 
> an additional benefit for the user).
> Whatever the solution, I can't recommend using the field's native 
> scrollbars enough.  Their binding to the field's text record is 
> automatically handled in fully compiled code in the engine, so it's 
> not merely convenient but about as efficient as it can get.
> If there's any reason the docs let you down on this one it's likely 
> just because so few consider using a separate scrollbar control for a 
> single field, since the field has it built-in and in a rather 
> efficient way.
> It would be nice to also specify bounds for the scrollbar separately 
> from the field rect, but in the meantime hopefully this will be 
> helpful.
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  __________________________________________________
>  Rev tools and more:
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at
- - -----------------------------------------------------------
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <fde101 at>

$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)


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