From katir at hindu.org  Sun Aug  1 00:28:05 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 18:28:05 -1000
Subject: Windows Backdrop Blues
Message-ID: <2ED6C0F1-E373-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

In one presentation i have two items on a pull down menu:

Case "Show Desktop"
     set the backdrop to none
     break
   Case "Hide DeskTop"
     set the backdrop to 0,0,75
     break
This works just fine...

in another presentation decided to try a bit more:

using a single menu item which is toggled by the script:v

case "Show Desktop"
     set the backdrop to none
     show menubar
     show taskbar
     put "off" into gBackDropStatus
     put "Hide Desktop" into line 2 of me
     break
   case "Hide Desktop"
     set the backdrop to black
     put empty into gBackDropStatus
     put "Show Desktop" into line 2 of me
     hide menubar
     hide taskbar
     break

This does *not* work on  Windows XP home version, running on a HP 
pavillion notebook zd7000. Works fine on MAC OSX...

Any clues?

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From pkc at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 00:32:08 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 00:32:08 -0400
Subject: Error 0,0 in Windows Standalone
In-Reply-To: <20040801034702.D0D8E930211@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040801034702.D0D8E930211@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110402bd321e8b378d@[192.168.2.8]>

Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:
>
>... Have you tried zipping the stack before transferring it?
>In my case, I use stuffitDeluxe, right click on the windows app folder
>and select "Make self extracting executable". This stuffs the whole
>thing into a compressed exe file. I then send that to my PC, and double
>click it. It extracts, with everything intact... and I don't even have
>any .DSstore files hanging about.
>
>I'm using 2.2.1 on a G4, and haven't encountered any problems like what
>you've described. Letsee... how many stacks? They are internalized to
>the application in the distribution builder? Anything else you can tell
>us?
>

I thought of stuffing, or using a stuffed suffix, after seeing 
another note on here about somebody who could not convince a Mac to 
recognize an FTP'd bundle as an application until the computer 
received it as a "compressed" file. My plan at this point is to first 
rename the file now on the server with a zip extension and see if a 
Windows machine will download and "assemble" it. Just curious.Plan B, 
a genuinely compressed file downloaded and see what happens. Will 
report results.

Still laying awake at nights wondering what is behind this, 
especially as nobody else is having this problem, apparently.  Troy 
asks how many stacks --a mainstack and seven substacks, all put on 
the mainstack in the build. The rest of the code is pretty bland. Oh, 
I did substitute the "transparent" ask and answer dialog stacks from 
the user contribution page some time ago. I don't think I have done a 
Windows build since plugging those in.

I have no idea whether "0,0" is a real error code in Windows or 
whether it is the computer's way of saying it doesn't know what the 
error is. I have glanced at some compendia of Windows error codes, 
but they seem not only impenetrable but endless (not surprising). I 
have no idea what order a Windows machine attempts to load  an 
executable in anyway, whether some anomalous font or background image 
is blocking the process (not using anything exotic in that regard, 
though).

From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  1 01:00:31 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 01:00:31 -0400
Subject: Error 0,0 in Windows Standalone
In-Reply-To: <p06110402bd321e8b378d@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040801034702.D0D8E930211@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110402bd321e8b378d@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <B68F95F6-E377-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 12:32 AM, pkc wrote:

> I thought of stuffing, or using a stuffed suffix, after seeing another 
> note on here about somebody who could not convince a Mac to recognize 
> an FTP'd bundle as an application until the computer received it as a 
> "compressed" file. My plan at this point is to first rename the file 
> now on the server with a zip extension and see if a Windows machine 
> will download and "assemble" it. Just curious.Plan B, a genuinely 
> compressed file downloaded and see what happens. Will report results.

I honestly think your executable is just getting "munged" in the 
transfer. Create the executable into a new folder, stuff (zip, 
whatever) the entire folder immediately. Move that to the PC and 
extract. Hopefully, everything will work properly after that. The rest 
of the items you mentioned (ask and answer dialogs, fonts, etc.) could 
cause flakey behaviors and visual anomalies - but shouldn't prevent the 
app from running.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Aug  1 04:08:50 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 03:08:50 -0500
Subject: Error 0,0 in Windows Standalone
In-Reply-To: <p06110401bd3205db6e7a@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <p06110401bd3205db6e7a@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <410CA512.9000508@chipp.com>

Have you tried compiling it on a Windows machine? If you don't have a 
license, perhaps you can post your stack to a server and we can try 
compiling it for you?

Also, when creating a new standalone, make sure and do the following:

Create a brand new folder first.
Save your standalone to the brand new folder.

There was a bug in the standalone builder on 2.2 which wouldn't build 
correctly if there was a folder or file name conflict.

And, I might add, try removing your Windows engine and have the 
standalone builder automatically download it again.

best,

Chipp


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Aug  1 04:16:21 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 03:16:21 -0500
Subject: Windows Backdrop Blues
In-Reply-To: <2ED6C0F1-E373-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <2ED6C0F1-E373-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <410CA6D5.9090505@chipp.com>

Hmmm

I was successful in WinXP just putting into the msg:

show menubar;show taskbar;set the backdrop to none

and

hide menubar;hide taskbar;set the backdrop to blue

so, perhaps you should try 'reordering' those commands.

-Chipp


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Aug  1 05:23:22 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:23:22 +0200
Subject: ANN: MoireX 2.0
In-Reply-To: <E10BBBAA-E316-11D8-A193-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEJHGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


If you thought RR was lame for graphics, think again...

http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=160

My new slinky application create Moires like the old Mac screen saver!!!
Gorgeous colors and patterns to stare at for hours...

And it's free! A PC executable will come soon...

Enjoy!
Xavier

Ah yes, I locked the scripts. No serviceable parts inside. Im working on a
development kit of modules some of which are in use in this stack. Sorry.

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Aug  1 07:57:30 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:57:30 +0200
Subject: MoireX 2.0
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEJHGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEJJGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Hi again, I updated the links,
Added the executable...

Made a couple last changes to the stack regarding the cursor...

and a few more tricks ;)

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: ANN: MoireX 2.0
>
>
>
> If you thought RR was lame for graphics, think again...
>
> http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=160
>
> My new slinky application create Moires like the old Mac screen saver!!!
> Gorgeous colors and patterns to stare at for hours...
>
> And it's free! A PC executable will come soon...
>
> Enjoy!
> Xavier
>
> Ah yes, I locked the scripts. No serviceable parts inside. Im working on a
> development kit of modules some of which are in use in this stack. Sorry.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Aug  1 08:00:41 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:00:41 +0200
Subject: Windows Icons
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEJHGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEJKGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

I found a really cood icon editor for WindowsXP icons.

http://www.snapfiles.com/freeware/gmm/fwicontools.html
or 
http://www.iconcool.net

Works fine with RunRev's application building ico formats.

Enjoy it...

Xavier

From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Aug  1 07:55:06 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 12:55:06 +0100
Subject: Can you make a stack larger than the screen rect under
  Windows?
In-Reply-To: <3f07cc260407311958629cf104@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2EE3B37B-E359-11D8-928E-000A95909E26@sonsothunder.com>
 <2EE3B37B-E359-11D8-928E-000A95909E26@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040801125051.0260dbc8@mail.tweedly.net>

At 22:58 31/07/2004 -0400, Howard Bornstein wrote:

> > I think Howard was talking about the user interactively resizing the
> > window... this is a Windows limitation AFAIK. You can resize it with
> > script,
> > but just not interactively.
>
>Yes, that's exactly what I was referring to. So are you confirming
>this limitation? Is this only in Revolution or does this limitation
>exist with other applications? (I just answered my own question--tried
>the same thing with Internet Explorer and it acts the same way: you
>can't make the window larger that the screen rectangle.)
>
>Gee, Windows is dandy.

If you *really* *really* want the functionality for your users, it should 
be possible to detect when the window is partially off-screen, and 
(programmatically) trim the window size to only the part that is on-screen. 
This would always allow the user to expand the on-screen edges - and then 
you could re-adjust if the window moved again.

You'd have to be really desperate to get the functionality to justify all 
this work - and even then you might  have some oddities with menus 
appearing unexpectedly. But I have used something like this technique to 
overcome windowing system limitations in the (dim, distant) past. (Apollo 
Systems, early '80s - details are gone ...)

-- Alex.

From kevin at runrev.com  Sun Aug  1 07:56:11 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 12:56:11 +0100
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <39A50432-E279-11D8-89D9-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BD3298EB.1BEB%kevin@runrev.com>

On 30/7/04 11:38 pm, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:

> RunRev:  Please consider going back to the old icon. Thanks.

We're not going back to the old hand icon as the default.  The new cursors
are more modern and are just as clear as cursors in other applications.

Please read the read me file regarding backward compatibility!

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Aug  1 10:19:57 2004
From: martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 15:19:57 +0100
Subject: Can you make a stack larger than the screen rect under  
 Windows?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040801125051.0260dbc8@mail.tweedly.net>
References: <3f07cc260407311958629cf104@mail.gmail.com>
 <2EE3B37B-E359-11D8-928E-000A95909E26@sonsothunder.com>
 <2EE3B37B-E359-11D8-928E-000A95909E26@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <l03130300bd32bbaa946e@[81.78.106.92]>

>At 22:58 31/07/2004 -0400, Howard Bornstein wrote:
>
>> > I think Howard was talking about the user interactively resizing the
>> > window... this is a Windows limitation AFAIK. You can resize it with
>> > script,
>> > but just not interactively.
>>
>>Yes, that's exactly what I was referring to. So are you confirming
>>this limitation? Is this only in Revolution or does this limitation
>>exist with other applications? (I just answered my own question--tried
>>the same thing with Internet Explorer and it acts the same way: you
>>can't make the window larger that the screen rectangle.)
>>
>>Gee, Windows is dandy.
>
>If you *really* *really* want the functionality for your users, it should
>be possible to detect when the window is partially off-screen, and
>(programmatically) trim the window size to only the part that is on-screen.
>This would always allow the user to expand the on-screen edges - and then
>you could re-adjust if the window moved again.
>
>You'd have to be really desperate to get the functionality to justify all
>this work - and even then you might  have some oddities with menus
>appearing unexpectedly. But I have used something like this technique to
>overcome windowing system limitations in the (dim, distant) past. (Apollo
>Systems, early '80s - details are gone ...)
>
>-- Alex.

The limiting factor is not the screenrect but the windowboundingrect.

I checked and you can in fact set the windowboundingrect to be wider than
the screen, and this does allow the behaviour that I think you wanted.

Martin Baxter



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sun Aug  1 11:12:29 2004
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:12:29 -0400
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <55D1065E-E321-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0407310922140.3257-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<6E6CB795-E313-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<6DEC7E37-E320-11D8-91AF-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<55D1065E-E321-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <348DAEE6-E3CD-11D8-AB2D-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>


On Jul 31, 2004, at 2:42 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>
> Version 2.5, now in beta, has integrated SSL.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>

Troy,

This is very cool news!

Do we have any expected release date on this?

Thanks,

Rick


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sun Aug  1 11:15:42 2004
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:15:42 -0400
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <68CD8B1B-E321-11D8-9A4A-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0407310922140.3257-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<6E6CB795-E313-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<6DEC7E37-E320-11D8-91AF-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<68CD8B1B-E321-11D8-9A4A-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A7871F22-E3CD-11D8-AB2D-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>


On Jul 31, 2004, at 2:42 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

> http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/
> http://rodney.buzzword.com/discuss/msgReader$155
> http://www.navaching.com/pagem.html
> http://mitchellonline.pasco.k12.fl.us/training/metacardcgi.htm
>
> On Jul 31 2004, at 20:35, Rick Harrison wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I've been looking at all the information I can find thus far
>> about how to use Rev as a CGI web solution.

Bj?rnke,

Thanks for the URL links!   They are all good resources.
I looked at them briefly yesterday.  I'm hoping to spend
more time today reading through the information.

I can see I have a lot more to digest and chew on for awhile.

Thanks!

Rick


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sun Aug  1 11:17:18 2004
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:17:18 -0400
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <1E4AAFC0-E334-11D8-9657-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0407310922140.3257-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<6E6CB795-E313-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<6DEC7E37-E320-11D8-91AF-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<68CD8B1B-E321-11D8-9A4A-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
	<1E4AAFC0-E334-11D8-9657-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <E0ADCBEF-E3CD-11D8-AB2D-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>


On Jul 31, 2004, at 4:56 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Hi,
>
> About how to set up a Revolution applications server binded to  
> PostgreSQL under Mac OS X or Linux, see
>
> <http://www.google.com/search? 
> as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>
>
>

Pierre,

Thanks, I'll check it out!

Rick


From howard.bornstein at gmail.com  Sun Aug  1 11:17:55 2004
From: howard.bornstein at gmail.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:17:55 -0400
Subject: Can you make a stack larger than the screen rect under Windows?
In-Reply-To: <30622062-E3C6-11D8-B7F0-000A95909E26@materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <30622062-E3C6-11D8-B7F0-000A95909E26@materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3f07cc2604080108173795fee1@mail.gmail.com>

> 
> The limiting factor is not the screenrect but the windowboundingrect.
> 
> I checked and you can in fact set the windowboundingrect to be wider
> than
> the screen, and this does allow the behaviour that I think you wanted.
> 
> Martin Baxter

YES! Thank you for this little gem! This saves me a lot of work
(although I wasn't going to go to the extreme that Alex suggested).

Rev continues to amaze me (although its vast scope is a little
overwheming at times).

Regards,

Howard Bornstein

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  1 11:23:47 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:23:47 -0400
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <BD3298EB.1BEB%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BD3298EB.1BEB%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C8B3B240-E3CE-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Kevin,

Understood. The issue wasn't backward compatibility, the issue was 
appearance. But this has been abundantly discussed on this list 
already.  While I personally like the suggestion that an option for a 
grabber hand still be made available, I also understand why you might 
not want to do this.

Thanks for the response.

Marian

On Aug 1, 2004, at 7:56 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:

> On 30/7/04 11:38 pm, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> RunRev:  Please consider going back to the old icon. Thanks.
>
> We're not going back to the old hand icon as the default.  The new 
> cursors
> are more modern and are just as clear as cursors in other applications.
>
> Please read the read me file regarding backward compatibility!
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sun Aug  1 11:24:54 2004
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:24:54 -0400
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <5C805856-E34C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0407310922140.3257-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<6E6CB795-E313-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<6DEC7E37-E320-11D8-91AF-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<5C805856-E34C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <F08D31B0-E3CE-11D8-AB2D-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>

Andre,

I really, really appreciate your response.

It's going to take me a little time to get up to speed on the 
information.

How is  libWebServices going to work with the Secure Socket Layer
which I hear will be included with Revolution 2.5?

Have you done any load testing (several users at once) accessing
websites written with libWebServices?

It sounds like an excellent solution, but I'm a little nervous with it
being so new - probably because I don't fully understand it yet.

How do I contact you off list?

Thanks again!

Rick


On Jul 31, 2004, at 7:50 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Rick,
>
> Hi let's make a little road map for you! Your options for Rev-based 
> CGI are three. I'll discuss each one of them.
>
> Option A - "GRRRR, Real Programmers don't use libraries!" (aka: Do It 
> Yourself From The Scratch!)
>
> To do that in a sane way is good to use Apache as your webserver and 
> you can use MySQL as your RDBMS of choice. You should check the CGI 
> tutorial for info on that (I saw you checked.), you said about perms 
> been unclear on MacOS X for you. Permissions are unix based, so it's 
> the same thing in MacOS X, is like that, you have three categories: 
> "owner of the file", "users in the same group", "the rest of the 
> world", you set permissions for each of this categories in a file 
> telling the OS how to behave. The usefull part is that your CGI files 
> must have permission to be executed and to create files and folders, 
> so you set the CGI file to 755 (that's the code for that) and the 
> folder it will be writing files to 777. All the information from 
> apache will be inside enviroment vars like $QUERY_STRING (or something 
> like that) It's just that. This is the hardest way, and there's no 
> much to tell about it, I do not recommend it.
>
>
> Option B - "Use the Library Luke!" (aka LibCGI)
>
> Monte and Rodney put togheter a nice library called LibCGI 
> (http://rodney.weblogs.com/libcgi). It can help yourlife, really. This 
> lib will take care of everything, it has primitives for acquiring data 
> from web space and sending data back to the web, you fetch data from a 
> simple array gRequestDataA, I think... and use LibCGI_response() to 
> send data, very simple! The examples are good and there's some simple 
> info at the page. What users usually complain is about the procedures 
> for installing the library on an apache system. That part I solved for 
> you. I made a simple palette called CGI-Tool (fetch from 
> http://public.soapdog.org) that is able to install and setup LibCGI 
> and the Metacard/Revolution engine on a remote FTP server. It also can 
> server as a "distribution builder" for your cgi, like from inside Rev 
> IDE click a button and your stack is there on the server ready for 
> use. If you are doing commercial work, I advise to stay with LibCGI 
> for apache is very rock solid, the Rev engine is a little memory 
> hungry but nothing harmfull.
>
>
> Option C - "But Mom, I'd like to stay in rev space, I am afraid to use 
> outside tools..." (aka revHTTPd, or ServerWorkz but the final name is 
> now libWebServices)
>
> I created a server and you saw the old documentation. Man you should 
> really see what I am up too... everything changed, it's now on 
> steroids. Since I can now do more protocols than simple HTTP, I 
> decided to rename the whole collection of things libWebServices. 
> LibWebServices is a little button. It fits inside the backscripts and 
> gives this features for your app: HTTP and XML-RPC. Any handler can be 
> accessed as if they were an URL (for example 
> http://my.home.machine/myStack/myCard/myButton/mouseUp) also we can 
> match web forms to cards with text fields this makes easy to make CGIs 
> and we have tons of features for remote method invocation and data 
> transports but Apache still THE SERVER! my server should not be used 
> for commercial purposes yet, I am finishing a complete rewrite and I 
> will open the source to investigation so that people can look for 
> bugs, there are better programmers here, I hope they take a look. The 
> two biggest advantadges are: it's self contained, your app is your 
> server and CGI, you can have as many CGIs running as you want in a 
> single app, you can copy it to a CD and run it on another computer... 
> try that with apache. Second the server and cgi engine are always on 
> so we got persistence of state, when you use apache every time a CGI 
> launches, it launches rev engine, run the thing, stop the engine, so 
> it's like that movie memento, your cgi never remember where it is, it 
> must re-read it's state from files/cookies/whatever and also launching 
> takes some time. The libWebServer is always on so if you set a 
> variable to something (supposing it's not a local var or a var of the 
> ephemeral kind) it stays that way, you can set a global to something 
> and fetch it anywhere anytime, thats good and evil for you must 
> remember to zero your vars when needed. I can give any info on this 
> project, just ask, I'll try to leave the new experimental server 
> running tonight and will announce here.
>
>
>
> I am making heavy use of cgi, apache, mysql, custom servers and 
> everything... it works, but sometimes it's just better to use LAMP 
> (linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP) on the server side and create the 
> client with Rev...
>
> Tell us about your project (if it's not secret) we can argue among 
> ourselves in the list eachone trying to convince you that our side is 
> right !!!! :D
>
> Cheers
> andre
>
> On Jul 31, 2004, at 3:35 PM, Rick Harrison wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I've been looking at all the information I can find thus far
>> about how to use Rev as a CGI web solution.  I'm finding
>> bits and pieces of stuff but nothing which really puts it
>> all together in a simple step by step process.
>> (I'm assuming that one doesn't exist at this point or I would
>> have found it.)
>>
>> The idea is of course to use MySQL and Rev. as the CGI
>> along with Apache or some other webserver capable of
>> doing SSL transactions.  In other words, a rather serious
>> project.
>>
>> I've looked at Andre Garzia's httpd stack server.  I found
>> the concept very interesting.  I'm not able to follow his
>> documentation real well without illustrations etc. I was
>> very impressed!  I doubt that it will do SSL however.
>>
>> I looked at the REV CGI introduction, it is a little unclear
>> on the permissions thing for setting it up on OS X. It obviously
>> uses the command line terminal unix stuff to create the right
>> hooks etc.  This appears to work through Apache so that will
>> solve the SSL problem.  I obviously need some better more
>> in depth resource to explore this further.
>>
>> I'm just now getting into the XML tutorial stack which at first
>> glance looks very good.
>>
>> Has anyone out there done an extensive website using Rev
>> and MySQL with Apache?
>>
>> Any other resources/examples you can recommend?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Rick Harrison
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> -- 
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 11:52:57 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:52:57 -0300
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <F08D31B0-E3CE-11D8-AB2D-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0407310922140.3257-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<6E6CB795-E313-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<6DEC7E37-E320-11D8-91AF-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<5C805856-E34C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<F08D31B0-E3CE-11D8-AB2D-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <DB5C926C-E3D2-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 12:24 PM, Rick Harrison wrote:

>
> How is  libWebServices going to work with the Secure Socket Layer
> which I hear will be included with Revolution 2.5?
>
>

Rick,

I have the 2.5 beta here and I am yet to find info on listening to a 
secured socket, don't know if this is possible yet...

about stress testing, well, I thought that I could handle only one 
request at a time, I really thought of that, then at the RMS Trevor 
showed me that in fact I could handle more then one request, without 
changing the code, I thought then: "humm.. that's why I never suffered 
a Denial of Service while testing on the list" so... I really don't 
know about how many connections it can handle, but if you're thinking 
about using it in a heavy traffic website, I would urge you to go 
Apache! libWebServices does not fully comply with HTTP 1.1, for example 
no chunked-connections are allowed (I didn't implemented it yet)....

libWebService is targeted not to websites, but to webagents and 
net-savvy apps. It's targeted in making apps that can act as both 
client and server depending on the hole they must take. It's aimed at 
small intranets, search bots, data aggregators and the like... I don't 
expect someone to run an amazon-like service with it... but a small 
very specialized book store could be possible eheheh :D

The best way for you to work now, is to setup a sandbox for you to 
play, setup Rev on a web host and play with CGI... by using it you'll 
fell what you need, you might even end up writing your own lib... :D

Cheers
andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  1 12:06:28 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:06:28 -0400
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <DB5C926C-E3D2-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0407310922140.3257-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<6E6CB795-E313-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<6DEC7E37-E320-11D8-91AF-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<5C805856-E34C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<F08D31B0-E3CE-11D8-AB2D-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<DB5C926C-E3D2-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BEF35F1C-E3D4-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 11:52 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> I have the 2.5 beta here and I am yet to find info on listening to a 
> secured socket, don't know if this is possible yet...

 From the readme.txt in 2.5b1 -

* Support for SSL
	* SSL is an add on pack in Studio and is included with Enterprise
         * Includes industrial strength encryption functions

So, it will be there, but only if you really need it (and are willing 
to pay for it.  ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  1 12:22:05 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:22:05 -0400
Subject: New England Rev User's Group??
In-Reply-To: <BEF35F1C-E3D4-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0407310922140.3257-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<6E6CB795-E313-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<6DEC7E37-E320-11D8-91AF-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<5C805856-E34C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<F08D31B0-E3CE-11D8-AB2D-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<DB5C926C-E3D2-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<BEF35F1C-E3D4-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <ED48B8E0-E3D6-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Having just realized that Pam Crossley lives not far from my mountain 
hermitage, I thought there might be other Rev users up here in the 
North Woods.

Are there any other Rev users in New England?  How about in Eastern 
Upstate NY?  Anyone interested in getting a local Rev user's group 
together??

I am located in the Mad River Valley (Waitsfield/Fayston, VT) in 
north-central Vermont, between Burlington and Montpelier.  As her 
recent post revealed, Pam is in the Upper Valley (Norwich, VT) along 
the VT-NH border.

Marian (Petrides)


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sun Aug  1 12:26:46 2004
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:26:46 -0400
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <DB5C926C-E3D2-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0407310922140.3257-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<6E6CB795-E313-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<6DEC7E37-E320-11D8-91AF-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<5C805856-E34C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<F08D31B0-E3CE-11D8-AB2D-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<DB5C926C-E3D2-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <94FBCBE4-E3D7-11D8-AB2D-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 11:52 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>
> The best way for you to work now, is to setup a sandbox for you to 
> play, setup Rev on a web host and play with CGI... by using it you'll 
> fell what you need, you might even end up writing your own lib... :D
>
> Cheers
> andre
>
>

Andre,

Thanks, I'll get back to my sandbox now.  ;-)

Rick




From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  1 12:36:05 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:36:05 -0400
Subject: New England Rev User's Group??
In-Reply-To: <ED48B8E0-E3D6-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0407310922140.3257-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<6E6CB795-E313-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<6DEC7E37-E320-11D8-91AF-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<5C805856-E34C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<F08D31B0-E3CE-11D8-AB2D-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<DB5C926C-E3D2-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<BEF35F1C-E3D4-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<ED48B8E0-E3D6-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E24135D8-E3D8-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 12:22 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> I am located in the Mad River Valley (Waitsfield/Fayston, VT) in 
> north-central Vermont, between Burlington and Montpelier.  As her 
> recent post revealed, Pam is in the Upper Valley (Norwich, VT) along 
> the VT-NH border.

Not sure if it counts as the North Woods, but I know it counts as New 
England - I'm in central Connecticut.  ;-)

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From pkc at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 12:39:58 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:39:58 -0400
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <20040801160008.571C9930224@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040801160008.571C9930224@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110403bd32c7b3ad59@[192.168.2.8]>

Many thanks to all for the suggestions.  If it helps round out the 
problem, I can reply to these comments:

Troy wrote:

>I honestly think your executable is just getting "munged" in the
>transfer. Create the executable into a new folder, stuff (zip,
>whatever) the entire folder immediately. Move that to the PC and
>extract. Hopefully, everything will work properly after that. The rest
>of the items you mentioned (ask and answer dialogs, fonts, etc.) could
>cause flakey behaviors and visual anomalies - but shouldn't prevent the
>app from running.


That's the most logical, and I would be satisfied with that answer if 
we hadn't tried every way I know of, and hundreds of repeats, of 
transferring the files from my G5 or G4 desktops (where they look 
like regular old .exe files) to a Windows desktop, where they look 
like bundles.  I see what you mean about the apparent lack of any 
venue for interference from dialog stacks or fonts. I zapped the 
alternative ask dialog stack anyway, at which point the app picked up 
my global profile formatting (dropping the generic stuff) and looked 
snappy anyway. Still trying to share the brilliance with my Windows 
users!


Chipp wrote:

>Have you tried compiling it on a Windows machine? If you don't have a
>license, perhaps you can post your stack to a server and we can try
>compiling it for you?

Thanks, Chipp.  I've had a few friendly offers for this, and will try 
it as a last ditch effort.  Sounds like it must be a sure-fire fix, 
but it doesn't quite offer a modus vivendi for the future. I have a 
day or so to try more specific fixes that might give me an idea what 
the #@!#$%^ the problem is.

>Also, when creating a new standalone, make sure and do the following:
>
>Create a brand new folder first.
>Save your standalone to the brand new folder.
>
>There was a bug in the standalone builder on 2.2 which wouldn't build
>correctly if there was a folder or file name conflict.

Ah yes, Troy also mentioned building into a fresh directory.  This 
sounds promising indeed. I haven't been doing that, at least not 
consistently.

>And, I might add, try removing your Windows engine and have the
>standalone builder automatically download it again.

The problem with that is that I wasted about a week at the beginning 
of this trauma trying to get my 2.2.1 and 2.2CR2 standalone builders 
to download the Win32 engine. I thought it was a traffic error or 
something (the standalone was kind of characterizing it this way with 
the progress bars and all), but finally I appealed to Heather and it 
seemed that the standalone was never actually addressing the correct 
directory to download that little file. I downloaded it manually and 
finally got a build (then on to the second and far stranger of the 
problems).  I can only get the file with the manual download. I'm 
happy to do it repeatedly to make sure I get a good catch. But it is 
impossible for me to use my present build of the standalone to do it.

My program of fixes (now under weigh) is:

1) Rename the current file on the FTP server with a "zip" suffix. 
Have unwitting subjects download it and see what happens.Transfer 
said renamed fake zip via disk and try to open. Probably won't work, 
but would tell a lot if one or both did.

2) Actually compress the file with Stuffit, replace the old file on 
the server, proceed as above.Transfer said genuine zip via disk and 
try to open.  I figure, slightly better chance of success?

3) Reinstall Revolution, re-download Win32, rebuild everything, zip, 
proceed as above.

4) Transfer the stack file to some Windows machine somewhere running 
Revolution and build the thing.  Has to succeed, no?  But we would 
learn nothing.

5) Flunk the 80 percent of the students in the course who are using 
Windows, on the grounds that their work is incomplete.  Attractive in 
its way.

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  1 12:44:37 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (ambassador at fourthworld.com)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 16:44:37 GMT
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 1
Message-ID: <200408011644.i71Gib0c095147@emu.daemonmail.net>

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:39:58 -0400 pkc wrote:
> >I honestly think your executable is just getting "munged" in the
> >transfer. Create the executable into a new folder, stuff (zip,
> >whatever) the entire folder immediately. Move that to the PC and
> >extract. Hopefully, everything will work properly after that. The rest
> >of the items you mentioned (ask and answer dialogs, fonts, etc.) could
> >cause flakey behaviors and visual anomalies - but shouldn't prevent the
> >app from running.
> 
> 
> That's the most logical, and I would be satisfied with that answer if 
> we hadn't tried every way I know of, and hundreds of repeats, of 
> transferring the files from my G5 or G4 desktops (where they look 
> like regular old .exe files) to a Windows desktop, where they look 
> like bundles. 

Hmmmm....Windows has no such thing as a bundle.  On Win, Mac bundles
appears as folders.   But since Win executables are a single file, they
should not look like a folder.

What exactly does your Win build look like there?  Maybe you're copying
the OS X builds?



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  1 12:54:45 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 09:54:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <BEF35F1C-E3D4-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20040801165445.39807.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:
> 
> On Aug 1, 2004, at 11:52 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:
> 
> > I have the 2.5 beta here and I am yet to find info
> on listening to a 
> > secured socket, don't know if this is possible
> yet...
> 
>  From the readme.txt in 2.5b1 -
> 
> * Support for SSL
> 	* SSL is an add on pack in Studio and is included
> with Enterprise
>          * Includes industrial strength encryption
> functions
> 
> So, it will be there, but only if you really need it
> (and are willing 
> to pay for it.  ;-)
> --
> Troy
> 

Actually, only client-side SSL (open secure socket) is
available in Revolution 2.5 ; server-side SSL (accept
secure connections) will be available in one of the
future revisions.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  1 12:58:31 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:58:31 -0400
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <p06110403bd32c7b3ad59@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040801160008.571C9930224@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110403bd32c7b3ad59@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <04BFC954-E3DC-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 12:39 PM, pkc wrote:

> My program of fixes (now under weigh) is:
>
> 1) Rename the current file on the FTP server with a "zip" suffix. Have 
> unwitting subjects download it and see what happens.Transfer said 
> renamed fake zip via disk and try to open. Probably won't work, but 
> would tell a lot if one or both did.

Not recommended, unless you are looking for a new source of frustration.

>
> 2) Actually compress the file with Stuffit, replace the old file on 
> the server, proceed as above.Transfer said genuine zip via disk and 
> try to open.  I figure, slightly better chance of success?

Better than slightly. For me, it works every time.

>
> 3) Reinstall Revolution, re-download Win32, rebuild everything, zip, 
> proceed as above.

Should not be required, though people have solved problems this way.

>
> 4) Transfer the stack file to some Windows machine somewhere running 
> Revolution and build the thing.  Has to succeed, no?  But we would 
> learn nothing.

Do you have virtual PC on your Mac? Try running your Windows 
executables there, or indeed, building from there.

>
> 5) Flunk the 80 percent of the students in the course who are using 
> Windows, on the grounds that their work is incomplete.  Attractive in 
> its way.

Well, they certainly would learn *something* from that experience.

Keep in mind, this is NOT an insurmountable issue. Lots of us make 
Windows builds from our Macs every day, with no special tricks or 
unspoken know-how. We'll figure it out.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  1 13:00:28 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:00:28 -0400
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <20040801165445.39807.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040801165445.39807.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A3CD0DB-E3DC-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 12:54 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> Actually, only client-side SSL (open secure socket) is
> available in Revolution 2.5 ; server-side SSL (accept
> secure connections) will be available in one of the
> future revisions.

Thanks for that clarification. I hadn't really been thinking too deeply 
about the server implications. Just excited to have client-side 
functionality.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 13:01:18 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:01:18 -0300
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <20040801165445.39807.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040801165445.39807.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6839A90F-E3DC-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 1:54 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> Actually, only client-side SSL (open secure socket) is
> available in Revolution 2.5 ; server-side SSL (accept
> secure connections) will be available in one of the
> future revisions.
>

Jan,

that sounded like music... I was dreading the day I would listen to 
someone saying: "no, we'll just implement client side, you can do 
server side SSL on your own. Good luck boy, may God be with you...".

Cheers
andre

> Jan Schenkel.
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  1 13:36:02 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:36:02 -0400
Subject: More on Pam's PC transfer problem
Message-ID: <421FFEF5-E3E1-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

In an attempt to see if building a standalone using the Win version of 
the Rev 2.5b1 would solve Pam's problem, I did the following:

Downloaded Pam's stack (and the ZIP file version of Rev 2.5 b1) on my 
Mac. Transferred Pam's file over to PC over my wireless network but the 
file will not open in Rev 2.5b1 on my PC--says file is corrupted.

Tried changing the name to something more DOS-friendly (PamStack.rev).  
No luck.

Changed name to PamStack.rev on Mac, zipped it using drop zip, still 
says file is corrupted when I try to open it using the PC version of 
2.5b1.

Same problem if I try to open the file using Rev 2.1.2 on PC.

I give up.  Any other suggestions?  This makes NO sense (to my puny 
little brain anyway)!!

NOTE:  I haven't even GOTTEN to trying to make a standalone on either 
platform.  I can't even get the file to open up.

M


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  1 13:50:03 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:50:03 -0400
Subject: More on Pam's PC transfer problem
In-Reply-To: <421FFEF5-E3E1-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <421FFEF5-E3E1-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <37BF077E-E3E3-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 1:36 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> I give up.  Any other suggestions?  This makes NO sense (to my puny 
> little brain anyway)!!

I'm not clear about this.

Did the stack open in Rev (any version) on the Mac?

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From Mike at Doub.com  Sun Aug  1 13:58:33 2004
From: Mike at Doub.com (Mike Doub)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:58:33 -0400
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <DB5C926C-E3D2-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20040801175840.CYVB1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.tribrain.net>

I just thought that I would chime in a positive note about Andre Garzia's work.  I am using Andre's httpd and have created a web site that goes off and queries a SQL Server database thru ODBC and renders the data back in a format optimized for handheld devices (ie my blackberry)  I have not had any problems at all, but it is not a terrible high traffic site.  I have a variety of people accessing my site and no one has mentioned any denial of service issues.

I am looking forward to the next release of Andre's code to see how it has evolved.  My next step is to add forms capability and make my queries to the database more dynamic.

I want that thank Andre for making this available, it was a big help and allowed me to solve a real problem I was having.

-= Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andre Garzia
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:53 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Rev Web Solutions?


On Aug 1, 2004, at 12:24 PM, Rick Harrison wrote:

>
> How is  libWebServices going to work with the Secure Socket Layer
> which I hear will be included with Revolution 2.5?
>
>

Rick,

I have the 2.5 beta here and I am yet to find info on listening to a 
secured socket, don't know if this is possible yet...

about stress testing, well, I thought that I could handle only one 
request at a time, I really thought of that, then at the RMS Trevor 
showed me that in fact I could handle more then one request, without 
changing the code, I thought then: "humm.. that's why I never suffered 
a Denial of Service while testing on the list" so... I really don't 
know about how many connections it can handle, but if you're thinking 
about using it in a heavy traffic website, I would urge you to go 
Apache! libWebServices does not fully comply with HTTP 1.1, for example 
no chunked-connections are allowed (I didn't implemented it yet)....

libWebService is targeted not to websites, but to webagents and 
net-savvy apps. It's targeted in making apps that can act as both 
client and server depending on the hole they must take. It's aimed at 
small intranets, search bots, data aggregators and the like... I don't 
expect someone to run an amazon-like service with it... but a small 
very specialized book store could be possible eheheh :D

The best way for you to work now, is to setup a sandbox for you to 
play, setup Rev on a web host and play with CGI... by using it you'll 
fell what you need, you might even end up writing your own lib... :D

Cheers
andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From katir at hindu.org  Sun Aug  1 14:02:18 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 08:02:18 -1000
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <BD3298EB.1BEB%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BD3298EB.1BEB%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <ED855204-E3E4-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

How about a black arrow tool for browse mode--and a white arrow tool 
for pointer mode ala adobe?
On Aug 1, 2004, at 1:56 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:

> On 30/7/04 11:38 pm, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> RunRev:  Please consider going back to the old icon. Thanks.
>
> We're not going back to the old hand icon as the default.  The new 
> cursors
> are more modern and are just as clear as cursors in other applications.
>
> Please read the read me file regarding backward compatibility!
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug  1 14:08:41 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 20:08:41 +0200
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <ED855204-E3E4-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <BD3298EB.1BEB%kevin@runrev.com>
	<ED855204-E3E4-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <D201D08E-E3E5-11D8-BF58-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Swami,

> How about a black arrow tool for browse mode--and a white arrow tool 
> for pointer mode ala adobe?

ah, must be a mac user ;-)

The windows system cursor is a white arrow and i think on windoze (not 
tested yet)
the EX-hand cursor will be a white arrow...(?)

I may be wrong, but i would exspect a white arrow as the "browse" tool 
on win...
That would be consequential!


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  1 14:23:51 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:23:51 -0400
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <ED855204-E3E4-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <BD3298EB.1BEB%kevin@runrev.com>
	<ED855204-E3E4-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <F0169CEB-E3E7-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 2:02 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> How about a black arrow tool for browse mode--and a white arrow tool 
> for pointer mode ala adobe?

I think RunRev has a good (maybe even excellent) cursor set in 2.5. 
Granted, there is some loss of familiarity for long-time users, but new 
people will probably see nothing to complain about, and the rest of us 
will get used to it, I'll bet.

If you look at the select tool cursor, it is quite distinct. And the 
browse tool cursor, is just the standard cursor - as it should be 
unless your app overrides it.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From howard.bornstein at gmail.com  Sun Aug  1 14:33:21 2004
From: howard.bornstein at gmail.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:33:21 -0400
Subject: New England Rev User's Group??
In-Reply-To: <0F50F500-E3D9-11D8-B7F0-000A95909E26@rpsystems.net>
References: <0F50F500-E3D9-11D8-B7F0-000A95909E26@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <3f07cc260408011133134980be@mail.gmail.com>

Woodstock, NY here.

-Howard Bornstein

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  1 14:36:39 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:36:39 -0400
Subject: More on Pam's PC transfer problem
In-Reply-To: <37BF077E-E3E3-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <421FFEF5-E3E1-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<37BF077E-E3E3-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BA14B0B9-E3E9-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Ayup.  Opens fine in 2.5b1 on the Mac. Doesn't open in either 2.12 or 
2.5b1 on PC, whether it was sent there directly or having been zipped 
first.


On Aug 1, 2004, at 1:50 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 1, 2004, at 1:36 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> I give up.  Any other suggestions?  This makes NO sense (to my puny 
>> little brain anyway)!!
>
> I'm not clear about this.
>
> Did the stack open in Rev (any version) on the Mac?
>
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From katir at hindu.org  Sun Aug  1 14:48:03 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 08:48:03 -1000
Subject: Auto Full Screen for presentations
Message-ID: <51AEF6B9-E3EB-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Some applications like Power Point, DVD players Acrobat automatically 
fill the entire screen if you open a presentation, regardless of the 
resolution of the monitor. If there is an aspect ratio to be maintained 
the unused areas of the overly long screen dimension are set to black.

I've never tried to make this happen with my revolution apps, as, 
personally I didn't think it was a good idea and since I work on a 21 
inch apple cinema display filling the entire screen seemed a bit over 
kill.

I've always stuck with hiding the desk top.

But some presenters  expect this behavior (auto use entire screen), if 
they have to give a class to children or make a presentation to a 
board, they just expect to boot up the application and viola the entire 
screen is taken up.  And I have noticed that on some windows machines 
the physical screen is just a standard 12" desktop screen but the 
resolution is set to 1152 X 720 (my goodness how any one can read 
anything in that environment is beyond me!) and, my presentation if set 
to to 800 X 600 appears pretty small in the center of the screen. 
Asking them to adjust the display properties to 800 X 600 just makes 
eyes roll and besides it tends to ruin the look... because the monitor 
is optimized for a higher resolution and changing the monitor 
resolution can wreck the pixels...? I really don't understand it very 
well.

How do we do this in Revolution? What are the caveats? Don't some 
graphics get "blown" when being oversized from their original? What is 
Power Point doing behind the scenes to keep everything looking good if 
it boots into a super high resolution-huge screen space?

I suspect  someone already has a set of pre-open stack handlers that 
does this job across all platforms, if so, could you share those with 
us? Along with the usual set of warnings about what not to do...

Thanks

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Aug  1 14:50:54 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 20:50:54 +0200
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <20040801165445.39807.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040801165445.39807.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B79D5FB2-E3EB-11D8-AEC8-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 1 ao?t 04, ? 18:54, Jan Schenkel a ?crit :
>
> Actually, only client-side SSL (open secure socket) is
> available in Revolution 2.5 ;

Cool !

> server-side SSL (accept
> secure connections) will be available in one of the
> future revisions.

Will be very usefull too...
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
>
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  1 14:50:34 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:50:34 -0400
Subject: More on Pam's PC transfer problem
In-Reply-To: <BA14B0B9-E3E9-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <421FFEF5-E3E1-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<37BF077E-E3E3-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<BA14B0B9-E3E9-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AB8B7D0C-E3EB-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 2:36 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Ayup.  Opens fine in 2.5b1 on the Mac. Doesn't open in either 2.12 or 
> 2.5b1 on PC, whether it was sent there directly or having been zipped 
> first.

Whoa.

No newsflash, but something not right there.

Rev says the file is "corrupted"? What if "lock messages" is turned on 
before opening? Any weird Mac specific things going on in openStack or 
pre-open card handlers?

Maybe, each substack could be saved as an individual file, transferred 
and opened... to determine the real culprit.

Maybe somebody like Richard, Chipp, or Ken could have some better ideas.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  1 14:57:16 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:57:16 -0400
Subject: More on Pam's PC transfer problem
In-Reply-To: <AB8B7D0C-E3EB-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <421FFEF5-E3E1-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<37BF077E-E3E3-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<BA14B0B9-E3E9-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<AB8B7D0C-E3EB-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <9B6AECF0-E3EC-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Even more information:

I took the .rev file I initially downloaded from Pam's iDisk using my 
Mac and opened it in Rev 2.1.2 Mac version.  No prob.  Created a Mac 
and a Windows standalone using Rev 2.1.2.   Mac standalone works fine.

Sent Windows standalone over to PC directly over my wireless network.  
Attempt to run it gives 0,0 error message reported by Pam.
Zipped Windows standalone and sent it to PC also over my wireless 
network.  Unzipped on PC. Attempt to run it gives same 0,0 error:   
"<filename>, error was 0,0"

Pam, what about Troy's suggestions?

M

On Aug 1, 2004, at 2:50 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 1, 2004, at 2:36 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> Ayup.  Opens fine in 2.5b1 on the Mac. Doesn't open in either 2.12 or 
>> 2.5b1 on PC, whether it was sent there directly or having been zipped 
>> first.
>
> Whoa.
>
> No newsflash, but something not right there.
>
> Rev says the file is "corrupted"? What if "lock messages" is turned on 
> before opening? Any weird Mac specific things going on in openStack or 
> pre-open card handlers?
>
> Maybe, each substack could be saved as an individual file, transferred 
> and opened... to determine the real culprit.
>
> Maybe somebody like Richard, Chipp, or Ken could have some better 
> ideas.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Aug  1 15:14:24 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:14:24 +0200
Subject: Auto Full Screen for presentations
In-Reply-To: <51AEF6B9-E3EB-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <51AEF6B9-E3EB-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <FFEE6EA7-E3EE-11D8-AEC8-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hello Katir,

Here is some code i'm using to handle such kind of tasks (a QT Player 
stack). Perhaps will it be something you can pick and adapt to your own 
needs :)

Best,



on resizeStack
   show fld "userpanel" of stack "istream"
   if the rect of stack "istream" is not the screenRect then pass 
resizeStack
end resizeStack



on dofullscreen
   lock screen
   put the screenrect into eee
   hide fld "userpanel" of stack "iStream"
   set the rect of stack "iStream" to eee
   subtract 20 from last item of eee
   set the rect of player "mainplayer" to eee
   set the showController of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to 
false
   set the loc of player "mainplayer" of stack "istream" to the loc of 
window "iStream"
   hide menubar
   set the backgroundcolor of this cd to "black"
   unlock screen
end dofullscreen



on dofullscreen2
   lock screen
   put the screenrect into eee
   hide fld "userpanel" of stack "iStream"
   set the rect of stack "iStream" to eee
   show graphic "graphic1"
   subtract (last item of eee div 3.8) from last item of eee
   set the rect of player "mainplayer" to eee
   set the showController of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to 
false
   set the loc of player "mainplayer" of stack "istream" to the loc of 
window "iStream"
   hide menubar
   set the backgroundcolor of this cd to "black"
   unlock screen
end dofullscreen2



on doresizebtn
   lock screen
   set the backgroundcolor of this cd to ""
   hide fld "userpanel" of stack "iStream"
   set the left of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to the left of 
fld "commandpanel" of stack "iStream"
   set the width of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to -44+the 
width of window "istream"
   set the top of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to 20
   set the height of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to -38+the 
height of window "istream"
   set the showController of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to 
true
   unlock screen
end doresizebtn



on doresizeplayer
   global StSzTemp
   lock screen
   set the backgroundcolor of this cd to ""
   if the left of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" is not "254" 
then
     show menubar
     set the rect of stack "istream" to the screenrect
     set the loc of stack "istream" to the screenloc
     set the top of window "istream" to 20
     set the height of window "istream" to -40+the height of window 
"istream"
     -- put the rect of stack "iStream" into StSzTemp
     -- set the rect of stack "iStream" to the screenrect -- StSzTemp
     set the showController of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to 
true
     set the left of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to 254
     set the width of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to -276+the 
width of window "istream"
     set the top of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to 84
     set the height of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to 
-46-60+the height of window "istream"
     set the width of fld "userpanel" of stack "iStream" to the 
-44+width of window "istream"
     hide graphic "graphic1"
     show fld "userpanel" of stack "iStream"
     revChangeWindowSize the width of stack "iStream", the height of 
stack "iStream"
   else if "mainplayer" is not in the target then
     hide fld "userpanel" of stack "iStream"
     set the left of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to the left 
of fld "commandpanel" of stack "iStream"
     set the width of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to -44+the 
width of window "istream"
     set the top of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to 20
     set the height of player "mainplayer" of stack "iStream" to -38+the 
height of window "istream"
   end if
   unlock screen
end doresizeplayer



Le 1 ao?t 04, ? 20:48, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami a ?crit :

> Some applications like Power Point, DVD players Acrobat automatically 
> fill the entire screen if you open a presentation, regardless of the 
> resolution of the monitor. If there is an aspect ratio to be 
> maintained the unused areas of the overly long screen dimension are 
> set to black.
>
> I've never tried to make this happen with my revolution apps, as, 
> personally I didn't think it was a good idea and since I work on a 21 
> inch apple cinema display filling the entire screen seemed a bit over 
> kill.
>
> I've always stuck with hiding the desk top.
>
> But some presenters  expect this behavior (auto use entire screen), if 
> they have to give a class to children or make a presentation to a 
> board, they just expect to boot up the application and viola the 
> entire screen is taken up.  And I have noticed that on some windows 
> machines the physical screen is just a standard 12" desktop screen but 
> the resolution is set to 1152 X 720 (my goodness how any one can read 
> anything in that environment is beyond me!) and, my presentation if 
> set to to 800 X 600 appears pretty small in the center of the screen. 
> Asking them to adjust the display properties to 800 X 600 just makes 
> eyes roll and besides it tends to ruin the look... because the monitor 
> is optimized for a higher resolution and changing the monitor 
> resolution can wreck the pixels...? I really don't understand it very 
> well.
>
> How do we do this in Revolution? What are the caveats? Don't some 
> graphics get "blown" when being oversized from their original? What is 
> Power Point doing behind the scenes to keep everything looking good if 
> it boots into a super high resolution-huge screen space?
>
> I suspect  someone already has a set of pre-open stack handlers that 
> does this job across all platforms, if so, could you share those with 
> us? Along with the usual set of warnings about what not to do...
>
> Thanks
>
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
> Himalayan Academy Publications
> at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
> katir at hindu.org
>
> www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
> www.HinduismToday.com
> www.Gurudeva.org
> www.Hindu.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 15:21:04 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 16:21:04 -0300
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <20040801175840.CYVB1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.tribrain.net>
References: <20040801175840.CYVB1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.tribrain.net>
Message-ID: <EE664D42-E3EF-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 2:58 PM, Mike Doub wrote:

> I just thought that I would chime in a positive note about Andre 
> Garzia's work.  I am using Andre's httpd and have created a web site 
> that goes off and queries a SQL Server database thru ODBC and renders 
> the data back in a format optimized for handheld devices (ie my 
> blackberry)  I have not had any problems at all, but it is not a 
> terrible high traffic site.  I have a variety of people accessing my 
> site and no one has mentioned any denial of service issues.
>
> I am looking forward to the next release of Andre's code to see how it 
> has evolved.  My next step is to add forms capability and make my 
> queries to the database more dynamic.
>
> I want that thank Andre for making this available, it was a big help 
> and allowed me to solve a real problem I was having.
>
> -= Mike

Mike,

just for your pleasure, I put the version I demoed at the Revolution 
Masters Sumit available at http://public.soapdog.org, I think that 
version has all the templating utilities and the XML-RPC part, that's 
not the new from scratch version I am making but should be eons from 
that simple httpd.rev I think you're working with. The package is 
ServerWorkz RC2 2.zip I don't know the difference between that version 
and the one I usually left running here on the list... So be happy with 
some not too new code, but better code indeed!

Also, if you could send me some shots of your app running and maybe a 
digital photo of your blackberry it would be fun! I am making some 
testimonials and case studies pages, That would be a killer case study 
for that's what I target the project!!!

Thanks for your cumpliments! :D That's what make us going!

Cheers
Andre


>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug  1 15:24:41 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 14:24:41 -0500
Subject: More on Pam's PC transfer problem
In-Reply-To: <AB8B7D0C-E3EB-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD32ADA9.1559%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/1/04 1:50 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> Maybe somebody like Richard, Chipp, or Ken could have some better ideas.

Well maybe not better, but certainly different. :-)

Is it possible that the Mac version has resources in the resource fork (an
external for OS 9 perhaps or a custom icon applied in OS 9) that may be
affecting the stripping of data when it goes to Windows?

And if Pam wouldn't mind, could she (or you, Marian) post the link to the
.rev file so we could try troubleshooting this ourselves?

Thanks,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Aug  1 15:26:20 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:26:20 -0700
Subject: More on Pam's PC transfer problem
In-Reply-To: <421FFEF5-E3E1-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <421FFEF5-E3E1-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2210867807.20040801122620@ahsoftware.net>

Marian-

Sunday, August 1, 2004, 10:36:02 AM, you wrote:

MP> In an attempt to see if building a standalone using the Win version of
MP> the Rev 2.5b1 would solve Pam's problem, I did the following:

MP> Downloaded Pam's stack (and the ZIP file version of Rev 2.5 b1) on my
MP> Mac. Transferred Pam's file over to PC over my wireless network but the
MP> file will not open in Rev 2.5b1 on my PC--says file is corrupted.

Try opening the file in a text editor. I had this problem with other
files and when I did this the first line of text said that the file
had been encoded with binhex. If you see that line when looking at the
zip file with a text editor then you need to unbinhex it first. Once
you've done that you can open the resulting zip file with no problem.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From katir at hindu.org  Sun Aug  1 15:35:43 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 09:35:43 -1000
Subject: voice mail recording
Message-ID: <FAA7FB98-E3F1-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Does anyone know what format is used or would be best for voice mail? 
What is the sound format used in telephony applications/telephone 
systems It would seem like a very doable thing to record something in 
Rev and then email the file to someone...

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From pkc at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 15:44:35 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 15:44:35 -0400
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]>

Hello all, a little more to report, and responses:

In my last message, I wrote:
>
>My program of fixes (now under weigh) is:
>
>1) Rename the current file on the FTP server with a "zip" suffix.
>Have unwitting subjects download it and see what happens.Transfer
>said renamed fake zip via disk and try to open. Probably won't work,
>but would tell a lot if one or both did.


Tried this.  As predicted, a failure.

>2) Actually compress the file with Stuffit, replace the old file on
>the server, proceed as above.Transfer said genuine zip via disk and
>try to open.  I figure, slightly better chance of success?

Tried this. Contrary to predictions, a failure.

>3) Reinstall Revolution, re-download Win32, rebuild everything, zip,
>proceed as above.

Had hopes for this one. Just got the report:  Exact same "0,0" error.

>4) Transfer the stack file to some Windows machine somewhere running
>Revolution and build the thing.  Has to succeed, no?  But we would
>learn nothing.

Marian was kind enough to do this. Her comments are below. This was 
also a failure.

>5) Flunk the 80 percent of the students in the course who are using
>Windows, on the grounds that their work is incomplete.  Attractive in
>its way.

Imminent.


Ambassador wrote:
>
>Hmmmm....Windows has no such thing as a bundle.  On Win, Mac bundles
>appears as folders.   But since Win executables are a single file, they
>should not look like a folder.


This is what is so mind boggling about this. When I moved the .exe 
file to my PC to see what the students were talking about, there was 
a bundle --a folder, a .ds store file, a GUI file, and another file I 
expect is the executables.  But the properties windows identifies the 
latter two as applications.  When I transferred this via CDR, I got 
one icon, but showed an apparent GUI window, and gave the "0,0" error 
when I tried to open it. Properties window says it is an application.

>  Maybe you're copying
>the OS X builds?
>

If so, I have no idea how to avoid it. In the standalone builder, 
nothing is checked but Windows and nothing comes out but an .exe 
file. I am not building the OS X application simultaneously.


Troy wrote:
>
>Keep in mind, this is NOT an insurmountable issue. Lots of us make
>Windows builds from our Macs every day, with no special tricks or
>unspoken know-how. We'll figure it out.

I understand.  I've been doing this exact same thing --building on 
mac, distributing to windows-- with Revolution for nearly five years 
now. Never had a problem like this.  Have been quite an advocate for 
getting Revolution more involved in our teaching. Now the whole 
school knows the course has ground to a halt for Windows-using 
students.  I have never ever had these problems and have been able to 
solve all Revolution problems up to now. This one appears 
inexplicable, let alone solvable.

Marian wrote:
>
>Downloaded Pam's stack (and the ZIP file version of Rev 2.5 b1) on my
>Mac. Transferred Pam's file over to PC over my wireless network but the
>file will not open in Rev 2.5b1 on my PC--says file is corrupted.
>
>Tried changing the name to something more DOS-friendly (PamStack.rev). 
>No luck.
>
>Changed name to PamStack.rev on Mac, zipped it using drop zip, still
>says file is corrupted when I try to open it using the PC version of
>2.5b1.
>
>Same problem if I try to open the file using Rev 2.1.2 on PC.
>

...

>Opens fine in 2.5b1 on the Mac. Doesn't open in either 2.12 or
>2.5b1 on PC, whether it was sent there directly or having been zipped
>first.


Troy wrote:

>Whoa.
>
>No newsflash, but something not right there.
>
>Rev says the file is "corrupted"? What if "lock messages" is turned on
>before opening? Any weird Mac specific things going on in openStack or
>pre-open card handlers?
>
>Maybe, each substack could be saved as an individual file, transferred
>and opened... to determine the real culprit.
>
>Maybe somebody like Richard, Chipp, or Ken could have some better ideas.

I would probably not recognize "weird Mac specific things" happening 
in my scripts. So far as I know, there is nothing weird in the 
scripts at all.

Marian wrote:
>
>I took the .rev file I initially downloaded from Pam's iDisk using my
>Mac and opened it in Rev 2.1.2 Mac version.  No prob.  Created a Mac
>and a Windows standalone using Rev 2.1.2.   Mac standalone works fine.
>
>Sent Windows standalone over to PC directly over my wireless network. 
>Attempt to run it gives 0,0 error message reported by Pam.
>Zipped Windows standalone and sent it to PC also over my wireless
>network.  Unzipped on PC. Attempt to run it gives same 0,0 error:  
>"<filename>, error was 0,0"
>
>Pam, what about Troy's suggestions?


You mean about weird scripting?  Absolutely nothing comes to mind. 
But why take my word for it?

You can all join in the mystery stack sweepstakes.

I have reinstalled Rev 2.2.1 on my G5.  The program will now properly 
download the Win32 engine (good news), and it has done that. I made a 
fresh directory and built the Windows standalone into it. I put it 
online for my students to FTP. They did. It is a bust.  Error 0,0.

I saved both the stack file and the Windows build directly into my 
iDisk (maybe there is some spooky formatting on hard disk that is 
messing up the file?):  pkc.  No password.  Take a look for yourself. 
It sounds like the solver of this scientific mystery should get a 
Nobel prize.

From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 15:58:04 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 16:58:04 -0300
Subject: voice mail recording
In-Reply-To: <FAA7FB98-E3F1-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <FAA7FB98-E3F1-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <19EE1468-E3F5-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>



Sannyasin,

The premier PBX app for linux (and *nix) is called asterisk 
(http://www.asterisk.org) and they are very big, I checked about how 
they store their voicemail files and found this url that you'll find 
interesting http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+sound+files  it's 
basically wav file tailored for size and not quality.

cheers
andre

On Aug 1, 2004, at 4:35 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Does anyone know what format is used or would be best for voice mail? 
> What is the sound format used in telephony applications/telephone 
> systems It would seem like a very doable thing to record something in 
> Rev and then email the file to someone...
>
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
> Himalayan Academy Publications
> at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
> katir at hindu.org
>
> www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
> www.HinduismToday.com
> www.Gurudeva.org
> www.Hindu.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 16:07:22 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:07:22 -0300
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <66889882-E3F6-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I am a late guest in this crisis, can someone sumarize it to me so that 
I can try to help too?

andre


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Aug  1 16:20:28 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:20:28 -0700
Subject: More on Pam's PC transfer problem
In-Reply-To: <421FFEF5-E3E1-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <421FFEF5-E3E1-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <17814115436.20040801132028@ahsoftware.net>

Marian-

I forgot to mention that the Windows binhex decode extension is
available at http://www.funduc.com. Look down the page for "Decode
Shell Extension" under Free Software.

-- 
-Mark
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Aug  1 16:27:28 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 15:27:28 -0500
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <410D5230.7040607@chipp.com>

Pam,

I'm with Ken, try posting your stack on a webserver and we'll take a 
look at it.

-Chipp


From kee at kagi.com  Sun Aug  1 17:04:19 2004
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:04:19 -0700
Subject: Mainstacks and substacks?
In-Reply-To: <66889882-E3F6-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]>
	<66889882-E3F6-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5AE3DC00-E3FE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>

First, my questions are no where near as important as Pamela's, but 
perhaps they are easier to answer?

Question #1: removing a substack from a mainstack

I have a mainstack StackB and so that I could use XML when I compile 
it, I somehow managed to add revSOAP.rev into it. I am able to compile 
StackB and distribute it as a standalone to folks.

      [StackB(revSOAP)]

Now, as I believe I have learned, you cannot have a mainstack (StackB) 
save changes to itself. If you want to do that, you need to create a 
splash screen stack as the mainstack (StackA), and then put the old 
mainstack (StackB) where data wants to be saved, as a substack of that 
splash screen stack (StackB).

Assuming this is correct, it is also my understanding that substacks 
(StackB) cannot have substacks (revSOAP). So how do I remove revSOAP 
from StackB so that I can import it as a separate substack in StackA 
along with StackB?

What I have:
      [StackA(StackB(revSOAP))]
What I think I want:
      [StackA(StackB,revSOAP)]


Question #2: docs for apps with data saved in substacks

Where are the docs for understanding how to build a standalone that can 
retain data in substacks? I've looked at the example on the runrev 
site, I've looked through the 1.1.1 manuals, I've searched the online 
docs and I've looked at Dan Shafer's Volume 1. I know this is supposed 
to be simple but I cannot find the answer.

Thanks in advance,
Kee Nethery


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  1 17:14:14 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:14:14 -0400
Subject: Mainstacks and substacks?
In-Reply-To: <5AE3DC00-E3FE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]>
	<66889882-E3F6-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<5AE3DC00-E3FE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <BD64048A-E3FF-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 5:04 PM, kee nethery wrote:

> Question #1: removing a substack from a mainstack
>
> I have a mainstack StackB and so that I could use XML when I compile 
> it, I somehow managed to add revSOAP.rev into it. I am able to compile 
> StackB and distribute it as a standalone to folks.
>
>
> Assuming this is correct, it is also my understanding that substacks 
> (StackB) cannot have substacks (revSOAP). So how do I remove revSOAP 
> from StackB so that I can import it as a separate substack in StackA 
> along with StackB?
>

You open the stack, select the substack, and use the menu command under 
the file menu "Save substack as file.."

>
> Question #2: docs for apps with data saved in substacks
>
> Where are the docs for understanding how to build a standalone that 
> can retain data in substacks? I've looked at the example on the runrev 
> site, I've looked through the 1.1.1 manuals, I've searched the online 
> docs and I've looked at Dan Shafer's Volume 1. I know this is supposed 
> to be simple but I cannot find the answer.
>

You can only do this by using a "splash screen" or other stack as the 
file which gets made into the executable, and it then calls your actual 
stack. This way, your actual stack is not the executable, and can be 
saved.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  1 17:16:57 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:16:57 -0400
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <66889882-E3F6-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]>
	<66889882-E3F6-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1EDE7140-E400-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Stack works fine on Mac (OS X).  Transfer to PC as non-standalone. 
Won't open on PC (file corrupted). Can load it, therefore can't make 
standalone out of it.  Same thing if zip using drop-zip prior to 
transfer from Mac to PC.

Make into standalone on Mac. Works fine.  Make into Win standalone on 
Mac. Transfer to PC get "0,0 error"  when try to run the standalone on 
PC. Same thing if zip using drop-zip prior to transfer from Mac to PC.

On Aug 1, 2004, at 4:07 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> I am a late guest in this crisis, can someone sumarize it to me so 
> that I can try to help too?
>
> andre
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  1 17:20:38 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:20:38 -0400
Subject: More on Pam's PC transfer problem
In-Reply-To: <2210867807.20040801122620@ahsoftware.net>
References: <421FFEF5-E3E1-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<2210867807.20040801122620@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <A266B6BE-E400-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

File unpacks OK on PC side just doesn't work once unpacked.  Used same 
version of Zip to port Rev 2.5b1 over and it unpacked and ran fine 
without bin-hex decode prior.

I did look at the zip file with TextEdit and it is all the usual 
gibberish, no indication that bin-hex is involved (that I can see 
anyway).

M
On Aug 1, 2004, at 3:26 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Marian-
>
> Sunday, August 1, 2004, 10:36:02 AM, you wrote:
>
> MP> In an attempt to see if building a standalone using the Win 
> version of
> MP> the Rev 2.5b1 would solve Pam's problem, I did the following:
>
> MP> Downloaded Pam's stack (and the ZIP file version of Rev 2.5 b1) on 
> my
> MP> Mac. Transferred Pam's file over to PC over my wireless network 
> but the
> MP> file will not open in Rev 2.5b1 on my PC--says file is corrupted.
>
> Try opening the file in a text editor. I had this problem with other
> files and when I did this the first line of text said that the file
> had been encoded with binhex. If you see that line when looking at the
> zip file with a text editor then you need to unbinhex it first. Once
> you've done that you can open the resulting zip file with no problem.
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  1 17:24:15 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:24:15 -0400
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <410D5230.7040607@chipp.com>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]> <410D5230.7040607@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <23A2609E-E401-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>


 >>>>I'm with Ken, try posting your stack on a webserver and we'll take 
a look at it.

I think Pam has already done this, athough it may only be accessible to 
us Mac types.  Pam wrote:

 >>>>I saved both the stack file and the Windows build directly into my 
iDisk (maybe there is some spooky formatting on hard disk that is 
messing up the file?):  pkc.  No password.  Take a look for yourself.

So anyone who can access the public folder on iDisk pkc  should be able 
to d/l the file the same way I did.

I really hope SOMEONE can find the source of corruption!

M
(Beating head against wall!!)

On Aug 1, 2004, at 4:27 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Aug  1 17:32:07 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:32:07 -0400
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <1E4AAFC0-E334-11D8-9657-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <3D482B7C-E402-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Saturday, July 31, 2004, at 04:56 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Hi,
>
> About how to set up a Revolution applications server binded to  
> PostgreSQL under Mac OS X or Linux, see
B1 on Mac os X , doesn't work with postgres.

>
> <http://www.google.com/ 
> search?as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>
>
> Le 31 juil. 04, ? 20:42, Bj?rnke von Gierke a ?crit :
>
>> http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/
>> http://rodney.buzzword.com/discuss/msgReader$155
>> http://www.navaching.com/pagem.html
>> http://mitchellonline.pasco.k12.fl.us/training/metacardcgi.htm
>>
>> On Jul 31 2004, at 20:35, Rick Harrison wrote:
>>
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> I've been looking at all the information I can find thus far
>>> about how to use Rev as a CGI web solution.  I'm finding
>>> bits and pieces of stuff but nothing which really puts it
>>> all together in a simple step by step process.
>>> (I'm assuming that one doesn't exist at this point or I would
>>> have found it.)
>>>
>>> The idea is of course to use MySQL and Rev. as the CGI
>>> along with Apache or some other webserver capable of
>>> doing SSL transactions.  In other words, a rather serious
>>> project.
>>>
>>> I've looked at Andre Garzia's httpd stack server.  I found
>>> the concept very interesting.  I'm not able to follow his
>>> documentation real well without illustrations etc. I was
>>> very impressed!  I doubt that it will do SSL however.
>>>
>>> I looked at the REV CGI introduction, it is a little unclear
>>> on the permissions thing for setting it up on OS X. It obviously
>>> uses the command line terminal unix stuff to create the right
>>> hooks etc.  This appears to work through Apache so that will
>>> solve the SSL problem.  I obviously need some better more
>>> in depth resource to explore this further.
>>>
>>> I'm just now getting into the XML tutorial stack which at first
>>> glance looks very good.
>>>
>>> Has anyone out there done an extensive website using Rev
>>> and MySQL with Apache?
>>>
>>> Any other resources/examples you can recommend?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Rick Harrison
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> -- 
> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>
> 100, rue de Paris
> F - 77140 Nemours
>
> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>
> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>
> WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Aug  1 18:18:46 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 15:18:46 -0700
Subject: More on Xplat Fonts
Message-ID: <C1A064A7-E408-11D8-A5EF-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

I was perusing the RealBASIC archives and some other language 
discussion areas and what I've found is that the problem of xplat fonts 
is huge and has so far been solved only by Macromedia Director and then 
only very inefficiently.

It is generally illegal to include fonts (those that are copyrighted) 
in an application, e.g. So packaging up fonts as part of the install 
process may not work.

As I said in an earlier post, Java programmer friends of mine tell me 
this is their biggest single xplat issue as well. So maybe we just have 
to live with it, do platform checking, master the use of profiles, set 
up some suggested standards.... In short, do it the hard way!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)

From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Aug  1 18:17:07 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 18:17:07 -0400
Subject: Rev Online
In-Reply-To: <CEE76DED-E191-11D8-B7BA-00039308EC44@mac.com>
Message-ID: <86519762-E408-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Thursday, July 29, 2004, at 03:02 PM, Takaaki Furukawa wrote:

> Hi Hershel,
>
>>> I'm excited to see Rev Online in 2.5B1. (And I liked "EuroRevCon" 
>>> stack by
>>> Malte) This is the way WWW should have been in the first place...
>>> HTML dragged us back to text-based stone-age computing, but now 
>>> we're back
>>> in the future, although security issues could potentially exist in 
>>> sharing stacks.
>>> I hope more ways to "link" between distributed stacks and objects 
>>> will be provided.
>> What do mean ? "this is the way WWW should have been ?
>> Thanks
>
> The current world wide web is text document-based, which is
> way old-fashioned and inflexible.
Got this.
> HyperCard was already there
> since 1987, and it was far more easy-to-author than HTML.
>  And systems like Rev Online lets people share working ideas
> as working stacks, which is a more intelligent way of
> communication than just sharing text and images.
Sorry, didn't get this . So your saying not to use a browser, instead, 
use a stack ? How would that work ? If you could elaborate a bit I'd 
appreciate ..
Thanks , Hershel

>
>  So my opinion is that the web should have been based on
> HyperCard-like (Rev-like) platform, NOT HTML,  in the very first 
> place. That
> was *not impossible* back in 1993 (when CD-ROM and multimedia age
> was already there, and there were tons of good titles) , but because 
> WWW was
> standardized by those unix-heads who stick to outdated text-based
> architecture, and worse, it became popular, we had to live in the
> world that's one generation older than HyperCard... which is HTML.
> Alan Kay hated HTML too.
>
> Takaaki
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug  1 18:23:53 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 00:23:53 +0200
Subject: Mainstacks and substacks?
In-Reply-To: <5AE3DC00-E3FE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]>
	<66889882-E3F6-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<5AE3DC00-E3FE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <789F1B98-E409-11D8-BF58-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Kee,

> First, my questions are no where near as important as Pamela's, but 
> perhaps they are easier to answer?
>
> Question #1: removing a substack from a mainstack
>
> I have a mainstack StackB and so that I could use XML when I compile 
> it, I somehow managed to add revSOAP.rev into it. I am able to compile 
> StackB and distribute it as a standalone to folks.
>
>      [StackB(revSOAP)]
>
> Now, as I believe I have learned, you cannot have a mainstack (StackB) 
> save changes to itself. If you want to do that, you need to create a 
> splash screen stack as the mainstack (StackA), and then put the old 
> mainstack (StackB) where data wants to be saved, as a substack of that 
> splash screen stack (StackB).
>
> Assuming this is correct, it is also my understanding that substacks 
> (StackB) cannot have substacks (revSOAP). So how do I remove revSOAP 
> from StackB so that I can import it as a separate substack in StackA 
> along with StackB?
>
> What I have:
>      [StackA(StackB(revSOAP))]
> What I think I want:
>      [StackA(StackB,revSOAP)]

This is a one-liner in the message box:

set the mainstack of stack "revSOAP" of stack "StackB" to "StackA"  
##Enter :-)

> Question #2: docs for apps with data saved in substacks
>
> Where are the docs for understanding how to build a standalone that 
> can retain data in substacks?

There is none that i know...?

But see my quick lesson below ;-)

> I've looked at the example on the runrev site, I've looked through the 
> 1.1.1 manuals, I've searched
> the online docs and I've looked at Dan Shafer's Volume 1. I know this 
> is supposed to be simple but
> I cannot find the answer.

Since the user of your app MAY not have write access to the application 
folder!,
i do this all the time with BIG success :-)

Create your stack that you want to be saved later on the users hd...
Then put it into a customproperty of your 
main-/splash-screen/standalone stack:
...
set the stack2save of this stack to url"binfile:my_sub.rev"
...

Then "on preopenstack" check these folders in the little script below, 
where the
current user HAS definitively write access!, if your stack is already 
present...

If not, just spit it out :-D

on xxx
   ## Check platform and the appropriate "prefs"-folder...
   switch the platform
   case "MacOS"
     put specialFolderPath("preferences") into spfp
     break
   case "Win32"
     if the systemversion contains "NT" then
       ## Win 2000 and XP
       put specialFolderPath(35) into spfp
     else
       ## Win 95, 96, 97, 98, 99 :-D
       put specialfolderpath("system") into spfp
       ### a.k.a. "The black hole"
     end if
     break
   default
     ## Unix/Linux -> User home folder
     put $HOME into spfp
     break
   end switch
   if there is not a folder (spfp & "/folder of your company") then
        create folder (spfp & "/folder of your company")
   end if
## Optional :-)

   if there is not a file (spfp & "/folder of your company/stack2save") 
then
     ## probably first time...
     put the stack2save of this stack into url("binfile:" & spfp & 
"/folder of your company/stack2save")
   end if
    go stack (spfp & "/folder of your company/stack2save")
end xxx

Et voila, a definitively save-able stack :-)


Hope that helps...

> Thanks in advance,
> Kee Nethery

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug  1 18:32:27 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 00:32:27 +0200
Subject: Mainstacks and substacks?
In-Reply-To: <789F1B98-E409-11D8-BF58-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]>
	<66889882-E3F6-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<5AE3DC00-E3FE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
	<789F1B98-E409-11D8-BF58-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <AAAC6290-E40A-11D8-BF58-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Kee,

short addition to make it absolutely clear!

> ...
> Since the user of your app MAY not have write access to the 
> application folder!,
> i do

the following

> all the time with BIG success :-)

> Create your stack that you want to be saved later on the users hd...

Make it a mainstack!
(It can have many, many substacks if you like!!!!! ;-)
Save and close it.
Do not make it a substack!

> Then put it into a customproperty of your 
> main-/splash-screen/standalone stack:
> ...
>
> Et voila, a definitively save-able stack :-)

Which can have many, many substacks!
Just in case i didn't mention... :-)

This is also the ultimate solution for eventual "clone stack xyz" 
related "inconveniences"...
Hint, hint :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From tsj at unimelb.edu.au  Sun Aug  1 18:34:45 2004
From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:34:45 +1000
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <20040801221956.84546930117@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040801221956.84546930117@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <FCEC39CA-E40A-11D8-8814-0003930D06A0@unimelb.edu.au>

> From: Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com>
> Date: 2 August 2004 8:18:46 AM
> To: Revolution User List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: More on Xplat Fonts
> Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>
>
> I was perusing the RealBASIC archives and some other language 
> discussion areas and what I've found is that the problem of xplat 
> fonts is huge and has so far been solved only by Macromedia Director 
> and then only very inefficiently.

Actually I think only Flash has managed to come up with a half (and a 
small half at that) decent solution with its font outlines. Director's 
embedded fonts still cause problems on some systems if you don't have 
administrator rights.
>
> It is generally illegal to include fonts (those that are copyrighted) 
> in an application, e.g. So packaging up fonts as part of the install 
> process may not work.
>
> As I said in an earlier post, Java programmer friends of mine tell me 
> this is their biggest single xplat issue as well. So maybe we just 
> have to live with it, do platform checking, master the use of 
> profiles, set up some suggested standards.... In short, do it the hard 
> way!

Exactly.

Terry...


Dr Terry Judd
Lecturer in Educational Technology (Design)
Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne

From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 18:45:46 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 19:45:46 -0300
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <23A2609E-E401-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]> <410D5230.7040607@chipp.com>
	<23A2609E-E401-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <86E002AA-E40C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Downloaded the stack from the iDisk. Let me summarize my first testings:

1) I CLICKED ON SUPPRESS MESSAGES!
2) launched pkcdisaster.rev stack
3) Revolution ignored me and sent openStack and preOpenStack.
4) okay, I am prompted to a login, I am a smart brazilian, I tried pkc, 
hi, I am a student.
5) tried to toplevel the stack... nothing...

Then I thought, why not try building a little stub loaded and try to 
run the thing in windows.

6) created a new mainstack with 5 lines:
     get stackFolder() -- my own pipe-the-stack-folder-routine
     put "file:" & it & "pkcdisaster.rev" into tStackUrl
     go stack URL tStackUrl

7) then the message box said: stack is corrupted, check for ~ backup 
file.
8) I am stopped waiting further comments from the folks out there.

I am using MacOS X with Rev 2.2.1



-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 18:53:45 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 19:53:45 -0300
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <23A2609E-E401-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]> <410D5230.7040607@chipp.com>
	<23A2609E-E401-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A496B912-E40D-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Downloaded the stack from the iDisk. Let me summarize my first testings:

1) I CLICKED ON SUPPRESS MESSAGES!
2) launched pkcdisaster.rev stack
3) Revolution ignored me and sent openStack and preOpenStack.
4) okay, I am prompted to a login, I am a smart brazilian, I tried pkc, 
hi, I am a student.
5) tried to toplevel the stack... nothing...

Then I thought, why not try building a little stub loaded and try to 
run the thing in windows.

6) created a new mainstack with 5 lines:
     get stackFolder() -- my own pipe-the-stack-folder-routine
     put "file:" & it & "pkcdisaster.rev" into tStackUrl
     go stack URL tStackUrl

7) then the message box said: stack is corrupted, check for ~ backup 
file.
8) I am stopped waiting further comments from the folks out there.

I am using MacOS X


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From pkc at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 19:06:32 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 19:06:32 -0400
Subject: Pamela crisis update
In-Reply-To: <20040801221956.D7766930146@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040801221956.D7766930146@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0611040cbd3323492487@[192.168.2.8]>

Hello all, thanks to those of you who've written 
to help. As I said in my last message, I have 
posted the stack file and the .exe file to my 
iDisk public folder:  pkc (no password).  Any 
comments or hints appreciated.

--------

I followed Mark Wieder's advice and opened the 
stack file with a text editor. I don't understand 
all the white space, but other than that it all 
looks pretty normal.  I just mean that is my code 
in there, and I assume those are my images.

--------

I also opened the .exe file.  It has all the same 
stuff in it BUT starts with this line:

"MZ????@??? 
	?!?
L?!This program cannot be run in DOS 
mode."

Does this mean me? If I am building for Windows, 
am I trying to run in DOS mode? (I have the 
impression yes, since Windows 98 seems to be 
running in the monitoring/correction substrate). 
Why wouldn't a Revolution build for WIndows run 
in DOS mode?  Can I just throw that line away 
somehow?

---------
Also, getting into the text-only mania, I opened 
the .exe.zip file.   Didn't see anything humanly 
readable in there.


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 19:14:43 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 20:14:43 -0300
Subject: Pamela crisis update
In-Reply-To: <p0611040cbd3323492487@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040801221956.D7766930146@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0611040cbd3323492487@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <924F056F-E410-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>


Pam,

about the dos mode text, that's legacy to prevent DOS users to load  
your app, thats normal... and a good sign... :D

did Rev crashed while you were working with your stack?

andre


On Aug 1, 2004, at 8:06 PM, pkc wrote:

> Hello all, thanks to those of you who've written to help. As I said in  
> my last message, I have posted the stack file and the .exe file to my  
> iDisk public folder:  pkc (no password).  Any comments or hints  
> appreciated.
>
> --------
>
> I followed Mark Wieder's advice and opened the stack file with a text  
> editor. I don't understand all the white space, but other than that it  
> all looks pretty normal.  I just mean that is my code in there, and I  
> assume those are my images.
>
> --------
>
> I also opened the .exe file.  It has all the same stuff in it BUT  
> starts with this line:
>
> "MZ????@??? 
>  	?!?
L?!This program cannot be run in DOS mode."
>
> Does this mean me? If I am building for Windows, am I trying to run in  
> DOS mode? (I have the impression yes, since Windows 98 seems to be  
> running in the monitoring/correction substrate). Why wouldn't a  
> Revolution build for WIndows run in DOS mode?  Can I just throw that  
> line away somehow?
>
> ---------
> Also, getting into the text-only mania, I opened the .exe.zip file.    
> Didn't see anything humanly readable in there.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  1 19:17:53 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 19:17:53 -0400
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <86E002AA-E40C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]> <410D5230.7040607@chipp.com>
	<23A2609E-E401-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<86E002AA-E40C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0388DD38-E411-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

That message is exactly the same as what I got when I tried to open the 
(non-standalone) stack on the PC in 2.1.2 or 2.5b1.

M
On Aug 1, 2004, at 6:45 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> 7) then the message box said: stack is corrupted, check for ~ backup 
> file.
> 8) I am stopped waiting further comments from the folks out there.


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 19:28:08 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 20:28:08 -0300
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <0388DD38-E411-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]> <410D5230.7040607@chipp.com>
	<23A2609E-E401-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<86E002AA-E40C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<0388DD38-E411-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <72258978-E412-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>


is there a safe way to move all her codes, cards, and objects to a new 
stack file.... there must be something corrupting this one, something 
evil inside the cracks of the file...

andre

On Aug 1, 2004, at 8:17 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> That message is exactly the same as what I got when I tried to open 
> the (non-standalone) stack on the PC in 2.1.2 or 2.5b1.
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  1 19:38:15 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 19:38:15 -0400
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <72258978-E412-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]> <410D5230.7040607@chipp.com>
	<23A2609E-E401-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<86E002AA-E40C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<0388DD38-E411-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<72258978-E412-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <DC45C386-E413-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

  I thought about that but, if that's the case, why does it work just 
fine on the Mac?  Works OK both in the IDE and as a standalone.

But having dealt with corrupt apps before, I know how flaky they can 
seem, so maybe just creating a new stack, copying each card--card by 
card--to the new stack, then saving the new stack might shed some 
light, especially if she saved the main stack first and then added in 
the substacks individually thereafter--testing the build after each 
stack (main then each sub).

Anyone have a better idea?

M
On Aug 1, 2004, at 7:28 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

>
> is there a safe way to move all her codes, cards, and objects to a new 
> stack file.... there must be something corrupting this one, something 
> evil inside the cracks of the file...
>
> andre
>
> On Aug 1, 2004, at 8:17 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> That message is exactly the same as what I got when I tried to open 
>> the (non-standalone) stack on the PC in 2.1.2 or 2.5b1.
> -- 
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Aug  1 19:45:10 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 01:45:10 +0200
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <3D482B7C-E402-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <3D482B7C-E402-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <D3239140-E414-11D8-8A13-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 1 ao?t 04, ? 23:32, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :

>
> On Saturday, July 31, 2004, at 04:56 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> About how to set up a Revolution applications server binded to  
>> PostgreSQL under Mac OS X or Linux, see
> B1 on Mac os X , doesn't work with postgres.

Take care about the fact that the way i expose don't use the RevDB lib  
but direct shell() calls to the psql PostgreSQL's server-side  
connector. Works fine in production, under Metacard 2.32 / 2.5 and  
Revolution 2.0 / 2.12 under both Linux x86 and Mac OS X 10.1 and UP.  
Not tested, for yet under Rev 2.2 and UP.
>
>>
>> <http://www.google.com/search? 
>> as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>
>>
>> Le 31 juil. 04, ? 20:42, Bj?rnke von Gierke a ?crit :
>>
>>> http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/
>>> http://rodney.buzzword.com/discuss/msgReader$155
>>> http://www.navaching.com/pagem.html
>>> http://mitchellonline.pasco.k12.fl.us/training/metacardcgi.htm
>>>
>>> On Jul 31 2004, at 20:35, Rick Harrison wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi there,
>>>>
>>>> I've been looking at all the information I can find thus far
>>>> about how to use Rev as a CGI web solution.  I'm finding
>>>> bits and pieces of stuff but nothing which really puts it
>>>> all together in a simple step by step process.
>>>> (I'm assuming that one doesn't exist at this point or I would
>>>> have found it.)
>>>>
>>>> The idea is of course to use MySQL and Rev. as the CGI
>>>> along with Apache or some other webserver capable of
>>>> doing SSL transactions.  In other words, a rather serious
>>>> project.
>>>>
>>>> I've looked at Andre Garzia's httpd stack server.  I found
>>>> the concept very interesting.  I'm not able to follow his
>>>> documentation real well without illustrations etc. I was
>>>> very impressed!  I doubt that it will do SSL however.
>>>>
>>>> I looked at the REV CGI introduction, it is a little unclear
>>>> on the permissions thing for setting it up on OS X. It obviously
>>>> uses the command line terminal unix stuff to create the right
>>>> hooks etc.  This appears to work through Apache so that will
>>>> solve the SSL problem.  I obviously need some better more
>>>> in depth resource to explore this further.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just now getting into the XML tutorial stack which at first
>>>> glance looks very good.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone out there done an extensive website using Rev
>>>> and MySQL with Apache?
>>>>
>>>> Any other resources/examples you can recommend?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>
>>>> Rick Harrison
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>> -- 
>> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>>
>> 100, rue de Paris
>> F - 77140 Nemours
>>
>> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>>
>> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
>> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>>
>> WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
>> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Sun Aug  1 19:49:12 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 01:49:12 +0200
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
Message-ID: <63A46F32-E415-11D8-AB1F-003065CC999E@pi.be>

	? 	From: Troy Rollins
	? 	 Subject: Re: 2.5 cursor change
	? 	 Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 11:23:56 -0700


--snip


> If you look at the select tool cursor, it is quite distinct. And the 
> browse tool cursor, is just the standard cursor - as it should be 
> unless your app overrides it.

Sure, that is why they had to use the select tool cursor in the rev 
documentation doc field as browse tool cursor to indicate when the 
mouse is *not* over a link text.
So is this more *modern*?


> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net

Btw the MC/RR hand cursor is not the real Mickey hand, because it lacks 
the three stripes on its back. The hand cursors in some
browsers are.


Greetings,
WA

From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 19:51:28 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 20:51:28 -0300
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <DC45C386-E413-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]> <410D5230.7040607@chipp.com>
	<23A2609E-E401-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<86E002AA-E40C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<0388DD38-E411-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<72258978-E412-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<DC45C386-E413-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B49152CA-E415-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 8:38 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

>  I thought about that but, if that's the case, why does it work just 
> fine on the Mac?  Works OK both in the IDE and as a standalone.


Marian,

it's not working on my mac... really... even when I supress messages, 
it keeps receiving them, and it does not build standalone here... I am 
also getting the weirder errors when trying to bundle it with a stub 
loader... and my IDE now sports a nice "MONGOL" background on the 
alerts... I wish you folks could see...

andre


>
> But having dealt with corrupt apps before, I know how flaky they can 
> seem, so maybe just creating a new stack, copying each card--card by 
> card--to the new stack, then saving the new stack might shed some 
> light, especially if she saved the main stack first and then added in 
> the substacks individually thereafter--testing the build after each 
> stack (main then each sub).
>
> Anyone have a better idea?
>
> M
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 20:02:39 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:02:39 -0300
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <B49152CA-E415-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]> <410D5230.7040607@chipp.com>
	<23A2609E-E401-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<86E002AA-E40C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<0388DD38-E411-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<72258978-E412-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<DC45C386-E413-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<B49152CA-E415-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <44A2456B-E417-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>

if anyone here want's to laugh and check how my Rev is looking, point 
your browsers to http://homepage.mac.com/soapdog/weird.jpg

but I am getting near to the problem, I promise!

andre

-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Aug  1 20:27:39 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 16:27:39 -0800
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <20040731224409.C0A039301D7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD32CA79.7263%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Trevor,

> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:46:11 -0700
> From: Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com>
> Subject: Re: 2.5 cursor change

> It seems to me that the arrow
> cursor is the accepted method of interacting with apps unless over a
> link.  Was the hand something that was used more in OS 9?

Well, yes, but since the first Mac OS 20 years ago, before Windows on a PC
existed. The general idea came about the same time as the use of "icon"
clickable elements on video monitors, much of which was developed further by
Jef Raskin and Bill Atkinson (MacDraw and HyperCard) way back then.

The 'mouse' idea was 'stolen' from Xerox, though.

Hmmm. But now that you mention it, I hadn't noticed anything different in
OSX. During runtime, the Arrow cursor has always been used for the Desktop,
the window Titlebars, window borders, window buttons (Close,
Minimize/Expand, Windowshade, Resizer), OS-generated scrollbars and up/down
arrows, the menuBar, and popUp menus.

But other clickable application content, all other created buttons and
graphics, and other stuff inside a window, hyperlinks, etc., use the hand.

Maybe they gave it up for OSX and I just didn't notice. If they did, then
the other point has been made, but what I'm still concerned with is points
of reference between what is IDE and what is created clickable content, by
the way of which Jeanne, in her inimitable and prolific style, put it.

It's in the HIG's, but I haven't read much of the new stuff for OSX yet.
Still trying to figure out how the darned thing handles filenames and
transfers. It keeps making lots of useless weird folders and documents show
up on my flash cards, about 6 levels deep, and I don't have a clue what they
are.

:-)

Ken N.


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 20:14:54 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:14:54 -0300
Subject: question for pam.
Message-ID: <FADE7CAA-E418-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Pam,

did you fiddled with the "Answer Dialog" Stack that comes with Rev and 
I think fit's inside license.rev or something...
All my answer dialogs are with MONGOL writings background and with your 
logo now...

andre

-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From kee at kagi.com  Sun Aug  1 20:22:50 2004
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:22:50 -0700
Subject: Mainstacks and substacks?
In-Reply-To: <AAAC6290-E40A-11D8-BF58-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]>
	<66889882-E3F6-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<5AE3DC00-E3FE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
	<789F1B98-E409-11D8-BF58-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<AAAC6290-E40A-11D8-BF58-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1640BF04-E41A-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>

Thank you to both Troy and Klaus. It really helps to be able to ask 
stupid simple questions and get crisp clear answers.

Sounds like the Klaus saved data solution is to treat a stack as a 
document and put it into the executable. Then spit it out and start to 
populate it. Looks like there really is no way to have the data stored 
directly in the executable. It's not the hypercard method but it does 
seem to be the standard way things are done so I'll adopt it.

Thanks again!

Kee


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  1 20:40:11 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 20:40:11 -0400
Subject: question for pam.
In-Reply-To: <FADE7CAA-E418-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <FADE7CAA-E418-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8326CB03-E41C-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 8:14 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> did you fiddled with the "Answer Dialog" Stack that comes with Rev and 
> I think fit's inside license.rev or something...
> All my answer dialogs are with MONGOL writings background and with 
> your logo now...

OK. That is odd. I took a look at the screen shot! Holy cow.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Aug  1 20:44:32 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:44:32 +1000
Subject: padding out revXMLText
In-Reply-To: <20040730133842.4C3C220051@smtp.net2000.ch>
References: <20040730133842.4C3C220051@smtp.net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <1E6DCAF6-E41D-11D8-8B9C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 30 Jul 2004, at 11:42 pm, <joel.guillod at net2000.ch> wrote:

> Oops Sarah,
>
> I use an undocumented feature of the revXMLText (not revXMLTree!) with 
> a third parameter with
> value TRUE in order to get the formatted xml:
>
> put revXMLText(treeID[[,startNode],formatted]) into tFormattedXML
>
No need for any "Oops" on my behalf, I'm delighted to learn of this 
feature as I was never very happy with my function for doing the 
formatting.

Thanks very much for pointing that out Joel, I'll have to go through 
your list and see if there are any other undocumented features that I 
can use.

Thanks,
Sarah


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  1 20:49:28 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 20:49:28 -0400
Subject: question for pam.
In-Reply-To: <8326CB03-E41C-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <FADE7CAA-E418-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<8326CB03-E41C-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <CEF404E6-E41D-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Sounds like the file is hosed, but the question is why/how did it get 
that way and what can Pam (and the rest of us) do to avoid it happening 
again?

Also, is the association with Rev 2.5b1 serendipity or is there 
something about 2.5 that is root of the problem?

Eeep... makes me a little nervous about bringing any major work over to 
2.5 for the time being!


On Aug 1, 2004, at 8:40 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 1, 2004, at 8:14 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>> did you fiddled with the "Answer Dialog" Stack that comes with Rev 
>> and I think fit's inside license.rev or something...
>> All my answer dialogs are with MONGOL writings background and with 
>> your logo now...
>
> OK. That is odd. I took a look at the screen shot! Holy cow.
>
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 20:50:50 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:50:50 -0300
Subject: question for pam.
In-Reply-To: <8326CB03-E41C-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <FADE7CAA-E418-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<8326CB03-E41C-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <FFBC7A0E-E41D-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 9:40 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> OK. That is odd. I took a look at the screen shot! Holy cow.
>

hheheheh wanna get scared! The Mongols even took altPluggins under 
their commands! look at the shots
http://www.soapdog.org/weird.jpg     -- Rev distro builder under mongol 
control.
http://www.soapdog.org/weird2.jpg   -- Rev message box under mongol 
control.
http://www.soapdog.org/weird3.jpg   -- Chipp's altPlugin under mongol 
control!!!!!!!!

I think that's the root of the problem, the replaced "Answer Dialog" 
stack... can someone with Metacard open the project and destroy the 
"answer dialog" and clear the profiles... from inside Rev I can't do 
that...

andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From gwills at ozemail.com.au  Sun Aug  1 20:59:06 2004
From: gwills at ozemail.com.au (Greg Wills)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:29:06 +0930
Subject: Saving and Talking
In-Reply-To: <20040730040319.B8AA7930104@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040730040319.B8AA7930104@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2776EA68-E41F-11D8-A956-000D9366AC66@ozemail.com.au>

Hi All

I am having trouble getting a standalone to do both these functions in 
the same app. What I want to do is allow the user to alter button 
names. The name of the button can then be used to speak the word. This 
works fine as a stack.

I can get the Distribution Builder to build a standalone that will save 
changes (button names).

I can get the Distribution Builder to build a standalone that will 
speak the button name.

BUT not in the same build.

I have tried combinations of settings, but don't seem to be able to get 
the standalone to be able to save changes and be able to use the 
revspeak function. Any thoughts?

I am using Rev 2.0.

cheers

Greg


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  1 21:01:20 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:01:20 -0400
Subject: question for pam.
In-Reply-To: <FFBC7A0E-E41D-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <FADE7CAA-E418-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<8326CB03-E41C-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<FFBC7A0E-E41D-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7746DC41-E41F-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 8:50 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> I think that's the root of the problem, the replaced "Answer Dialog" 
> stack... can someone with Metacard open the project and destroy the 
> "answer dialog" and clear the profiles... from inside Rev I can't do 
> that...

It looks like one of the images from the default image library has been 
modified. I'm not sure that would cause the whole problem...

Somehow, something in the stack is effectively modifying the IDE, I 
guess.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 21:06:59 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 22:06:59 -0300
Subject: question for pam.
In-Reply-To: <7746DC41-E41F-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <FADE7CAA-E418-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<8326CB03-E41C-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<FFBC7A0E-E41D-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<7746DC41-E41F-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <414FB494-E420-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 10:01 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> It looks like one of the images from the default image library has 
> been modified. I'm not sure that would cause the whole problem...
>
> Somehow, something in the stack is effectively modifying the IDE, I 
> guess.
>


it's not fiddling with image lib, for it's not only the background,  
it's a new stack... but Rev Does Not Allow ME TO DELETE THAT DAMN 
THING! it keeps coming back from the dead! Hell, I wish I had a 
metacard license IDE here or a simple starter kit just to try.... 
damn...

I think it's altering the message path too, for when I use "save as 
standalone..." it goes thru the openStack handler of pam mainstack... 
it should do that?

andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From pkc at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 21:10:50 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:10:50 -0400
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <20040802004723.58B199301F0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040802004723.58B199301F0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110419bd334413d3bf@[192.168.2.8]>

Well I trust everybody who is interested has now had a good look at 
Andre's hilarious pictures. They DO look very funny on his desktop, 
but I'm surprised at the surprise. I can't remember much about 
Revolution 1.x at this point, but Revolution 2.x has ALWAYS picked up 
any application icons I use in the ask and answer dialogs. 
Fortunately, they don't carry over to builds, but they stick in the 
IDE if I don't reinstall the original stacks from the Revolution 
folders.

This is nothing new. But the inability to build for Windows is very new.

Now, as an additional experiment I am doing what I should have done 
before now --building a small test stack, with the same set up I used 
for pkcdisaster.rev, and see what happens. Got to find some more 
guinea pigs. I'm sure students have nothing better to do than 
download file after file from me and get the "0,0" message.

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  1 21:13:50 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:13:50 -0400
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <p06110419bd334413d3bf@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040802004723.58B199301F0@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110419bd334413d3bf@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <369A57BE-E421-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Well, I'd be glad to be a guinea pig for you and I bet a few other 
folks from the list would be too.

I REALLY want to get to the bottom of this, at this point!  It's almost 
better than a good detective novel or a difficult antibody panel ;-))

M

On Aug 1, 2004, at 9:10 PM, pkc wrote:

> Got to find some more guinea pigs


From pkc at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 22:26:13 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 22:26:13 -0400
Subject: Pamela crisis --some progress
In-Reply-To: <20040802004723.58B199301F0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040802004723.58B199301F0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0611041fbd335515d01e@[192.168.2.8]>

The small dummy app I built for my students went through and ran fine 
at their end. So, the setup I have does not object to a stack with a 
single window in it.

Now, working on Andre's theory that the altered dialog stack is the 
villain, I built an independent mainstack, copied the elements from 
the old mainstack to it, pointed all the substacks EXCEPT the evil 
dialog stack, did a global change of the scripts, saved and closed.

I'm going to build that thing now. Those of my students who are night 
owls (or just eager to pass the course) may get back to me within an 
hour or so with results.

I should say, I tried to kill this stack many times.  I deleted it, 
saw it disappear from the application browser, saved, closed, and 
when I reopened it was always there.  It is not at all unruly and, as 
you can see in Andre's web production, looks rather nice (?).  But I 
THINK it is true that I downloaded the alternative stack and plugged 
it in between the good builds and the bad builds (unfortunately for 
scientific purposes, about the same time I upgraded to Rev 2.2CR2. So 
this is an extremely good theory. If I could have killed the stack 
that might have solved it, but it kept coming back from the beyond.

More soon, I hope.  Many thanks for all the good ideas.
Pamela

From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  1 22:34:36 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 23:34:36 -0300
Subject: Pamela crisis --some progress
In-Reply-To: <p0611041fbd335515d01e@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040802004723.58B199301F0@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0611041fbd335515d01e@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <7E97CCAF-E42C-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Pam,

I might be wrong on my assumption that the answer dialog was the evil 
part (not that it is not evil), I made a standalone of pkcdisaster 
without Answer dialog or Ask dialog, meaning it starts without asking 
me the login!!!! and it works!!! but in windows it dies the same death 
we always see... (or I created a stack without the dialogs, but with 
the evil answer dialog code/bits/spirit in it and it still causing 
trouble). I don't know... it's past midnight here, I think I must 
sleep.

I try again tomorrow!

cheers
andre



On Aug 1, 2004, at 11:26 PM, pkc wrote:

> The small dummy app I built for my students went through and ran fine 
> at their end. So, the setup I have does not object to a stack with a 
> single window in it.
>
> Now, working on Andre's theory that the altered dialog stack is the 
> villain, I built an independent mainstack, copied the elements from 
> the old mainstack to it, pointed all the substacks EXCEPT the evil 
> dialog stack, did a global change of the scripts, saved and closed.
>
> I'm going to build that thing now. Those of my students who are night 
> owls (or just eager to pass the course) may get back to me within an 
> hour or so with results.
>
> I should say, I tried to kill this stack many times.  I deleted it, 
> saw it disappear from the application browser, saved, closed, and when 
> I reopened it was always there.  It is not at all unruly and, as you 
> can see in Andre's web production, looks rather nice (?).  But I THINK 
> it is true that I downloaded the alternative stack and plugged it in 
> between the good builds and the bad builds (unfortunately for 
> scientific purposes, about the same time I upgraded to Rev 2.2CR2. So 
> this is an extremely good theory. If I could have killed the stack 
> that might have solved it, but it kept coming back from the beyond.
>
> More soon, I hope.  Many thanks for all the good ideas.
> Pamela
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Aug  1 23:18:39 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 20:18:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <BD32CA79.7263%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408012016490.26297-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Wasn't the mouse idea 'stolen' from Englebart? (Doug?)

Judy


On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:

> The 'mouse' idea was 'stolen' from Xerox, though.
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  1 23:36:56 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 20:36:56 -0700
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408012016490.26297-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408012016490.26297-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <410DB6D8.7060100@fourthworld.com>

Judy Perry wrote:

 > On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:
 >
 >
 >>The 'mouse' idea was 'stolen' from Xerox, though.
 >>
 > Wasn't the mouse idea 'stolen' from Englebart? (Doug?)

Yes, as far as I know.

I have a copy of the videotape of his presentation of the first 
mouse-driven OS in 1967 (apparently he had invented the mouse several 
years earlier but then needed to write an OS to use it on <g>).

If you come to one of our LA RUG meetings I'll show it. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  1 23:41:43 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 20:41:43 -0700
Subject: Mainstacks and substacks?
In-Reply-To: <1640BF04-E41A-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]>
	<66889882-E3F6-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<5AE3DC00-E3FE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
	<789F1B98-E409-11D8-BF58-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<AAAC6290-E40A-11D8-BF58-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<1640BF04-E41A-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <410DB7F7.1050402@fourthworld.com>

kee nethery wrote:

> Thank you to both Troy and Klaus. It really helps to be able to ask 
> stupid simple questions and get crisp clear answers.
> 
> Sounds like the Klaus saved data solution is to treat a stack as a 
> document and put it into the executable. Then spit it out and start to 
> populate it. Looks like there really is no way to have the data stored 
> directly in the executable. It's not the hypercard method but it does 
> seem to be the standard way things are done so I'll adopt it.

On most computers there's no alternative:  it isn't possible for an 
executable to write to itself on Windows or UNIX.  Rev carries this 
through to Mac OS for consistency.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 00:00:40 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 21:00:40 -0700
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <DC45C386-E413-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]> <410D5230.7040607@chipp.com>
	<23A2609E-E401-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<86E002AA-E40C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<0388DD38-E411-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<72258978-E412-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<DC45C386-E413-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <410DBC68.4020704@fourthworld.com>

Marian Petrides wrote:

>  I thought about that but, if that's the case, why does it work just 
> fine on the Mac?  Works OK both in the IDE and as a standalone.
> 
> But having dealt with corrupt apps before

In Rev?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug  2 00:26:21 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 18:26:21 -1000
Subject: Windows Backdrop Blues
In-Reply-To: <410CA6D5.9090505@chipp.com>
References: <2ED6C0F1-E373-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<410CA6D5.9090505@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <1B797C1B-E43C-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Chipp, thanks, that worked... backdrop at the end...

--Sivakatirswami
On Jul 31, 2004, at 10:16 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> and
>
> hide menubar;hide taskbar;set the backdrop to blue
>
> so, perhaps you should try 'reordering' those commands.
>
> -Chipp
>


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Aug  2 00:24:17 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 00:24:17 -0400
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <D3239140-E414-11D8-8A13-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <D1785F4F-E43B-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Sunday, August 1, 2004, at 07:45 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

>
> Le 1 ao?t 04, ? 23:32, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :
>
>>
>> On Saturday, July 31, 2004, at 04:56 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> About how to set up a Revolution applications server binded to  
>>> PostgreSQL under Mac OS X or Linux, see
>> B1 on Mac os X , doesn't work with postgres.
>
> Take care about the fact that the way i expose don't use the RevDB lib  
> but direct shell() calls to the psql PostgreSQL's server-side  
> connector.
Now technical what is the difference between the two methods ?
>  Works fine in production, under Metacard 2.32 / 2.5 and Revolution  
> 2.0 / 2.12 under both Linux x86 and Mac OS X 10.1 and UP. Not tested,  
> for yet under Rev 2.2 and UP.
>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.google.com/ 
>>> search?as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>
>>>
>>> Le 31 juil. 04, ? 20:42, Bj?rnke von Gierke a ?crit :
>>>
>>>> http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/
>>>> http://rodney.buzzword.com/discuss/msgReader$155
>>>> http://www.navaching.com/pagem.html
>>>> http://mitchellonline.pasco.k12.fl.us/training/metacardcgi.htm
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 31 2004, at 20:35, Rick Harrison wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been looking at all the information I can find thus far
>>>>> about how to use Rev as a CGI web solution.  I'm finding
>>>>> bits and pieces of stuff but nothing which really puts it
>>>>> all together in a simple step by step process.
>>>>> (I'm assuming that one doesn't exist at this point or I would
>>>>> have found it.)
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea is of course to use MySQL and Rev. as the CGI
>>>>> along with Apache or some other webserver capable of
>>>>> doing SSL transactions.  In other words, a rather serious
>>>>> project.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've looked at Andre Garzia's httpd stack server.  I found
>>>>> the concept very interesting.  I'm not able to follow his
>>>>> documentation real well without illustrations etc. I was
>>>>> very impressed!  I doubt that it will do SSL however.
>>>>>
>>>>> I looked at the REV CGI introduction, it is a little unclear
>>>>> on the permissions thing for setting it up on OS X. It obviously
>>>>> uses the command line terminal unix stuff to create the right
>>>>> hooks etc.  This appears to work through Apache so that will
>>>>> solve the SSL problem.  I obviously need some better more
>>>>> in depth resource to explore this further.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just now getting into the XML tutorial stack which at first
>>>>> glance looks very good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone out there done an extensive website using Rev
>>>>> and MySQL with Apache?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any other resources/examples you can recommend?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick Harrison
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>>>
>>> 100, rue de Paris
>>> F - 77140 Nemours
>>>
>>> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>>>
>>> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
>>> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>>> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>>>
>>> WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
>>> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> -- 
> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>
> 100, rue de Paris
> F - 77140 Nemours
>
> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>
> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>
> WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Aug  2 00:33:37 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 23:33:37 -0500
Subject: Pamela crisis -- Found corrupt substack
In-Reply-To: <p0611041fbd335515d01e@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <BD332E51.28CA%kray@sonsothunder.com>

Pam,

I looked at your stack and decided that I'd take the "no frills" approach
and try opening it with lockMessages on in MetaCard on Windows. I
immediately got the error:

  "Can't open stack because stack is corrupted, check for ~ backup file."

So since MC can open Rev files without problems, you definitely had a
corrupted file. The next thing to determine was just *where* the corruption
existed.

After individually removing substacks and testing, it turns out that the
substack "MONGOL_EDIT" is corrupt. I would highly recommend rebuilding this
stack from scratch if you can in order to remove the corruption. Once this
is done, you should be able to build an executable under Windows as normal.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com


 



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 00:36:11 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 21:36:11 -0700
Subject: Pamela crisis -- Found corrupt substack
In-Reply-To: <BD332E51.28CA%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD332E51.28CA%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <410DC4BB.2020907@fourthworld.com>

Ken Ray wrote:

> Pam,
> 
> I looked at your stack and decided that I'd take the "no frills" approach
> and try opening it with lockMessages on in MetaCard on Windows. I
> immediately got the error:
> 
>   "Can't open stack because stack is corrupted, check for ~ backup file."
> 
> So since MC can open Rev files without problems, you definitely had a
> corrupted file. The next thing to determine was just *where* the corruption
> existed.
> 
> After individually removing substacks and testing, it turns out that the
> substack "MONGOL_EDIT" is corrupt. I would highly recommend rebuilding this
> stack from scratch if you can in order to remove the corruption. Once this
> is done, you should be able to build an executable under Windows as normal.

Pam: Is there a copy of the file in the original directory with the same 
name but prefaced with "~"?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From pkc at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 00:43:37 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 00:43:37 -0400
Subject: Pamela crisis bad news
In-Reply-To: <20040802004723.58B199301F0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040802004723.58B199301F0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110402bd33757c6861@[192.168.2.8]>

In our last episode, I proceeded on Andre's excellent idea of an evil 
dialogue stack. I created a new mainstack and pointed the previous 
substacks at it, with the exception of the immortal dialog stack. 
Saved under a new name and reopened. Poof, suspect dialog is gone and 
the default dialogs have reappeared.  I built an .exe file into a 
fresh directory, zipped it, put it online, and invited unsuspecting 
students to download.

The result:   The dreaded 0,0 error.

I am just reeling with disbelief.

A new test stack (no functions, just to see if it will open) went 
through fine and the students opened it. I'm willing to tear this set 
of stacks down to the new mainstack, dummy out the calls to other 
stacks, and build it up till I find the stack that kills it.  I had 
other things going on in my life, but hey, in for a penny in for a 
pound. More later.

From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Aug  2 00:51:42 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:51:42 -0700
Subject: Quoting Posts in Replies
Message-ID: <A5C8AEDB-E43F-11D8-A5EF-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

<rant>

Every once in a while some curmudgeon has to jump in and suggest to 
people posting to this list that they PLEASE edit the previous posts 
quoted in their replies so that only the stuff that's essential to 
follow the current post is included. My turn.

I saw a couple of posts tonight that had like seven levels of quoted 
indentation in them. It was not even possible to find the comment being 
made by the person posting the new comment.

Please, folks, take the time to edit your replies. Not only will you 
reduce clutter and bandwidth demands on the list, you'll also increase 
the chances of getting an answer to your question or a response to your 
comment.

</rant>

I now return you to your regularly scheduled Revolution.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)

From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Aug  2 00:55:55 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:55:55 -0700
Subject: voice mail recording
In-Reply-To: <FAA7FB98-E3F1-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <FAA7FB98-E3F1-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <3CDFA32C-E440-11D8-A5EF-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 12:35 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Does anyone know what format is used or would be best for voice mail?

Can't tell you what is standard, but the email voice mail I get from my 
Vonage account comes in mp3 format.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  2 00:59:51 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 00:59:51 -0400
Subject: Animation library
Message-ID: <C9A6686D-E440-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>

It seems that with 2.5b RunRev is opting to phase out the animation 
library. I can understand this... I've played with it, but never used 
it for real. Mostly because it wasn't all that great - though it did 
have some really nice concepts.

Pretty much anybody who has paid any attention to my posts, knows that 
I come from a heavy Director background, and in fact still use Director 
daily, still more than Revolution except when I am deep in a Rev-based 
project.

At this stage, Rev and Director are moving father apart, with Rev more 
in line with tools like RealBasic, for "application building" rather 
than "multimedia building." Though, it is getting to the stage where 
while Director can make a credible application, Rev will have a harder 
time making credible multimedia.

So, I ask this... was anyone using the animation library? If so or not, 
why, or why not? Should it be replaced? If so, with what? What might it 
look like or do differently than the old library did?

One thought I had is just some sort of time-driven callback list with a 
graphical interface for setting it up, editing, etc. Then I realized, 
well that's about what the animation library was...

Hate to see a feature, even a little used one, pass without any 
discussion at all - especially since, in a certain regard, it changes 
the development landscape of Rev, and modifies development approach 
options.

Any thoughts at all?
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Aug  2 01:04:19 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 00:04:19 -0500
Subject: Pamela crisis bad news
In-Reply-To: <p06110402bd33757c6861@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <BD333583.28D3%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/1/04 11:43 PM, "pkc" <pkc at mac.com> wrote:

> In our last episode, I proceeded on Andre's excellent idea of an evil
> dialogue stack. I created a new mainstack and pointed the previous
> substacks at it, with the exception of the immortal dialog stack.
> Saved under a new name and reopened. Poof, suspect dialog is gone and
> the default dialogs have reappeared.  I built an .exe file into a
> fresh directory, zipped it, put it online, and invited unsuspecting
> students to download.
> 
> The result:   The dreaded 0,0 error.
> 
> I am just reeling with disbelief.
> 
> A new test stack (no functions, just to see if it will open) went
> through fine and the students opened it. I'm willing to tear this set
> of stacks down to the new mainstack, dummy out the calls to other
> stacks, and build it up till I find the stack that kills it.  I had
> other things going on in my life, but hey, in for a penny in for a
> pound. More later.

Pam, see my comments on another thread... you have a corrupt substack:
"MONGOL_EDIT". If you remove it, everything should be fine. But of course
you need it for your app, so you'll have to rebuild it from scratch.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 01:20:50 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 22:20:50 -0700
Subject: Animation library
In-Reply-To: <C9A6686D-E440-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <C9A6686D-E440-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <410DCF32.90808@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:
> It seems that with 2.5b RunRev is opting to phase out the animation 
> library. I can understand this... I've played with it, but never used it 
> for real. Mostly because it wasn't all that great - though it did have 
> some really nice concepts.
> 
> Pretty much anybody who has paid any attention to my posts, knows that I 
> come from a heavy Director background, and in fact still use Director 
> daily, still more than Revolution except when I am deep in a Rev-based 
> project.
> 
> At this stage, Rev and Director are moving father apart, with Rev more 
> in line with tools like RealBasic, for "application building" rather 
> than "multimedia building." Though, it is getting to the stage where 
> while Director can make a credible application, Rev will have a harder 
> time making credible multimedia.
> 
> So, I ask this... was anyone using the animation library? If so or not, 
> why, or why not? Should it be replaced? If so, with what? What might it 
> look like or do differently than the old library did?
> 
> One thought I had is just some sort of time-driven callback list with a 
> graphical interface for setting it up, editing, etc. Then I realized, 
> well that's about what the animation library was...
> 
> Hate to see a feature, even a little used one, pass without any 
> discussion at all - especially since, in a certain regard, it changes 
> the development landscape of Rev, and modifies development approach 
> options.
> 
> Any thoughts at all?

Would it make sense to open source it?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From pkc at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 01:23:11 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 01:23:11 -0400
Subject: Pamela crisis probable resolution
In-Reply-To: <20040802050218.41516930236@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040802050218.41516930236@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110404bd337f94c627@[192.168.2.8]>

Many thanks to Ken Ray, whose discovery of the corrupt substack I 
just saw.  Too bad, my favorite stack, and one that I use in the OS X 
build of this application to do all my own editing of course files! 
But, if that is the villain, it is the villain.  I will indeed build 
it from scratch.  Many, many thanks for everybody's efforts.

I will leave the stack on my iDisk in case others want to view it for 
scientific purposes.  I would really like to know, whenever anybody 
else knows, what it is that makes this stack corrupt!

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 01:24:46 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 22:24:46 -0700
Subject: Pamela crisis probable resolution
In-Reply-To: <p06110404bd337f94c627@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040802050218.41516930236@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd337f94c627@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <410DD01E.2060101@fourthworld.com>

pkc wrote:

> Many thanks to Ken Ray, whose discovery of the corrupt substack I just 
> saw.  Too bad, my favorite stack, and one that I use in the OS X build 
> of this application to do all my own editing of course files! But, if 
> that is the villain, it is the villain.  I will indeed build it from 
> scratch.  Many, many thanks for everybody's efforts.
> 
> I will leave the stack on my iDisk in case others want to view it for 
> scientific purposes.  I would really like to know, whenever anybody else 
> knows, what it is that makes this stack corrupt!

Just a wild guess:  are there any image objects there?  If so, what 
happens if you remove only those?


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  2 01:28:21 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 01:28:21 -0400
Subject: Animation library
In-Reply-To: <410DCF32.90808@fourthworld.com>
References: <C9A6686D-E440-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<410DCF32.90808@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C467C2E1-E444-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 1:20 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Would it make sense to open source it?

Does make one wonder. I know at one point there was discussion of 
improving it, expanding it, making it more robust and capable. Instead, 
the choice seems to be dropping it. Like I said, I can understand that. 
It might not be the best direction for RunRev's developers to spend 
time - but the nature of the tool itself is still a valid one. How else 
will the average user be able to drive sequences of time-based events 
in Rev? Dummy players? That isn't very elegant.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From tsj at unimelb.edu.au  Mon Aug  2 01:41:34 2004
From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:41:34 +1000
Subject: Animation library
In-Reply-To: <20040802050217.8ADF4930234@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040802050217.8ADF4930234@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9D39A390-E446-11D8-9B38-0003930D06A0@unimelb.edu.au>

> From: Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net>
> Date: 2 August 2004 2:59:51 PM
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Animation library
> Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>

I for one have never used the animation library (although someone who 
did some Rev development for me tried it ? to not very great effect) so 
won't be particularly sad at its passing (if it is indeed being phased 
out).  However, the lack of serious animation capabilities does not 
necessarily diminish Rev's value as a multimedia development tool.  I 
too use Director on a daily basis to develop rich multimedia projects 
yet rarely use its animation capabilities (which tend to be favoured by 
graphic designers but not educational designers in my experience). If I 
need animation it generally gets done in Flash and imported into 
Director, which works well given that Director and Flash are so well 
integrated.

While the same level of integration with Rev and Flash clearly isn't 
available, you can play Flash within QuickTime and with the help  of 
Trevore Devore's QT external 
(http://www.mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/enhancedqt.html) 
even pass messages from Flash to Rev using FSCommand.  If the reverse 
were also true...

Perhaps if the Rev team provided some support in that direction?

Cheers,

Terry...

> It seems that with 2.5b RunRev is opting to phase out the animation 
> library. I can understand this... I've played with it, but never used 
> it for real. Mostly because it wasn't all that great - though it did 
> have some really nice concepts.
>
> Pretty much anybody who has paid any attention to my posts, knows that 
> I come from a heavy Director background, and in fact still use 
> Director daily, still more than Revolution except when I am deep in a 
> Rev-based project.
>
> At this stage, Rev and Director are moving father apart, with Rev more 
> in line with tools like RealBasic, for "application building" rather 
> than "multimedia building." Though, it is getting to the stage where 
> while Director can make a credible application, Rev will have a harder 
> time making credible multimedia.
>
> So, I ask this... was anyone using the animation library? If so or 
> not, why, or why not? Should it be replaced? If so, with what? What 
> might it look like or do differently than the old library did?
>
> One thought I had is just some sort of time-driven callback list with 
> a graphical interface for setting it up, editing, etc. Then I 
> realized, well that's about what the animation library was...
>
> Hate to see a feature, even a little used one, pass without any 
> discussion at all - especially since, in a certain regard, it changes 
> the development landscape of Rev, and modifies development approach 
> options.
>
> Any thoughts at all?
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
Dr Terry Judd
Lecturer in Educational Technology (Design)
Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne

From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  2 01:47:04 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 01:47:04 -0400
Subject: Animation library
In-Reply-To: <9D39A390-E446-11D8-9B38-0003930D06A0@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <20040802050217.8ADF4930234@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D39A390-E446-11D8-9B38-0003930D06A0@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <61C0D616-E447-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 1:41 AM, Terry Judd wrote:

> I for one have never used the animation library (although someone who 
> did some Rev development for me tried it ? to not very great effect) 
> so won't be particularly sad at its passing (if it is indeed being 
> phased out).  However, the lack of serious animation capabilities does 
> not necessarily diminish Rev's value as a multimedia development tool.

I'm not really referring to animation as animation. I'm talking more 
about a graphical interface to time-driven events. Most people have a 
hard time doing this through pure scripting, I think.

FWIW, I don't actually animate in Director's score either, I mostly use 
imaging Lingo for that - but Rev doesn't have an equivalent for that 
either.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug  2 01:58:44 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 00:58:44 -0500
Subject: Pamela crisis probable resolution
In-Reply-To: <p06110404bd337f94c627@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040802050218.41516930236@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd337f94c627@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <410DD814.4040406@chipp.com>

Pamela,

I just got here a bit late, and don't have my Mac here at home, so I 
can't get to the iDisk file anyway..and besides, it looks like Ken's 
identified the problem.

I would agree with Richard's notion of removing any images inside the 
stack and trying again. For what it's worth, I only use images made in 
Photoshop and saved as JPG, BMP or GIF inside Rev. Rev can be somewhat 
strict in it's interpretation of image file format.

Also, I would recommend trying the altClean plugin at:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginDownload/Downloads.htm

If you don't want to install the toolbar, just open it up like a regular 
stack...palette it, and run it. It will delete some of the customProps 
RR uses but won't affect performance. It also compacts, remove script 
colors, recompiles all scripts in the stack, etc.

Lastly, I would also recommend you consider using the free altArchive 
plugin when developing in Revolution. IMO, it's the single 'musthave' 
plugin we have. It will place a save icon on the altPlugin toolbar, 
which when pressed will issue a 'save' from RR and then incrementally 
backup the new saved version with a "00X.rev" extension to a folder 
named "archive" at the same level as the file you're saving. This way, 
you can 'roll back' to multiple different versions at any time.

Keep us posted on your successes.

best,

Chipp



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Aug  2 02:52:14 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 22:52:14 -0800
Subject: voice mail recording
In-Reply-To: <20040801221956.AE5A393012E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD33249D.727F%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello Sannyasin,

> Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 09:35:43 -1000
> From: Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org>
> Subject: voice mail recording

> 
> Does anyone know what format is used or would be best for voice mail?
> What is the sound format used in telephony applications/telephone
> systems It would seem like a very doable thing to record something in
> Rev and then email the file to someone...

Depends how you want to handle it, but you might want to check here:

<http://www.quick-voice.com/>

If you're Mac-oriented, it's really a nice little app. Records CD quality
sound in stereo, too.

Awhile back, I recorded some voicemails for my mom (uses a PC) who has
macular degeneration, but now my long distance service is so cheap I just
phone her. I originally used .mov files which they had trouble reading, but
I switched to creating MP3 clips which played OK for them.

The little Rev audio recording interface I made is on my other computer, not
here. I'll look for it in the morning and see if I can get it to run, then
get back to you.

All the best,
Ken N.


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Mon Aug  2 03:39:50 2004
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 09:39:50 +0200
Subject: Animation library
In-Reply-To: <20040802050218.8644993023B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD33BC66.2402%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi,

>So, I ask this... was anyone using the animation library?

I never used it as I couldn?t tweak anything usable out of it. Animations
weren?t smooth. Really no go. And the GUI was simply confusing IMHO.

>If so or not, why, or why not?

Well I do animation with rev quite a lot. I came from an Audio and Video
background and was searching for a cheaper alternative to Director. Once I
got how Rev works I was pretty reminded of my BASIC background in the
80s/90s.

>Should it be replaced? If so, with what? What might it
>look like or do differently than the old library did?

I can offer libRMC for a start.

http://www.derbrill.de/librmc/libRMC.rev.zip

Even though you need to know some basic Transcript concepts it brings ease
of use to creating animations within Rev. It has no GUI yet. But it is well
documented and comes with demo code. You can copy and paste the demo
handlers and then simply set a few custom properties to change the
animations.

What I support so far is:

moving objects on linear paths
moving objects on polygonal paths
moving objects on circular paths
moving objects on elliptical paths

circular collision detection

and a few things more.

With this lib I have what I need to do my animations. I am open to set up an
improvement group for the lib. I *dream* of having something that comes
close to Directors Tweening, but I just can?t find the time/money to code it
right now. libRMC took quite a while to be coded, as one needs lots of math
to do scripted animation. I think I?ve implemented the math pretty well. :-)
and users of libRMC wont need to fuss with it.


Best,

Malte


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Aug  2 04:01:02 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 00:01:02 -0800
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <20040802050218.10ACD930238@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD3334BD.7282%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Richard,

> Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 20:36:56 -0700
> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> Subject: Re: 2.5 cursor change

> 
> Judy Perry wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> The 'mouse' idea was 'stolen' from Xerox, though.
>>> 
>> Wasn't the mouse idea 'stolen' from Englebart? (Doug?)
> 
> Yes, as far as I know.
> 
> I have a copy of the videotape of his presentation of the first
> mouse-driven OS in 1967 (apparently he had invented the mouse several
> years earlier but then needed to write an OS to use it on <g>).
> 
> If you come to one of our LA RUG meetings I'll show it. :)\

Cool.  What if you make a QT movie and post it somewhere?

Englebart's idea finally became a production reality with the Xerox PARC
machines in the 70's. I think that's where Jobs first saw it, when Apple
asked IDEO, Inc. to design a cleaner, more efficient, stable, and cheaper
device for the LISA, which they did. That same basic wheel-and-ball solution
is still being used in virtually all mechanical mice today, AFAIK.

But now, even my trackball is giving my poor CTS wrists problems. I need a
vertical trackball device, but I haven't seen what I want yet. I may build
my own from parts.

Ken N.



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Mon Aug  2 04:04:46 2004
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:04:46 +0200
Subject: Saving and Talking
In-Reply-To: <20040802050218.8644993023B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD33C23D.2403%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi Greg,

>I can get the Distribution Builder to build a standalone that will save
>changes (button names).

>I can get the Distribution Builder to build a standalone that will
>speak the button name.

>BUT not in the same build.

I guess the stack you are saving does not know that it needs to use the
revspeak external. Try having the script that does the speak in the
standalones mainstack and call that script from the stack you are saving.

e.G. declare a global or custom prop  that holds the text to be spoken and
speak that global / custom prop from the main stack.

Hope that helps,

Malte


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Mon Aug  2 04:26:00 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:26:00 +0200
Subject: More libRMC
In-Reply-To: <BD2FD417.23D8%malte.brill@t-online.de>
References: <BD2FD417.23D8%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <9600070E-E45D-11D8-A89C-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 30.07.2004, at 10:31, Malte Brill wrote:

> If there is interest
Yes

> I?ll put together a more beautiful demo. I hope the
> actual Demo helps getting you started anyway.
>
> I?ll prepare a homepage for libRMC soon. Maybe I put on the Docs as a 
> PDF
> file.

Great idea, Malte.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speadlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Mon Aug  2 04:32:43 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:32:43 +0200
Subject: More libRMC
In-Reply-To: <BD2EB546.23C5%malte.brill@t-online.de>
References: <BD2EB546.23C5%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <861824BC-E45E-11D8-A89C-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 29.07.2004, at 14:08, Malte Brill wrote:

> I?ve put together a small Demo stack showing how one can do smooth 
> animation
> with libRMC.
But its not smooth here. (G4/400/1GB/10.3.4) Its jerky (ruckelig) like 
nearly all rev programmed animations i?v seen.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speadlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 04:39:28 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 01:39:28 -0700
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <BD3334BD.7282%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BD3334BD.7282%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <410DFDC0.4010900@fourthworld.com>

Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:

> Hi Richard,
> 
> 
>>Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 20:36:56 -0700
>>From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>>Subject: Re: 2.5 cursor change
> 
> 
>>Judy Perry wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The 'mouse' idea was 'stolen' from Xerox, though.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Wasn't the mouse idea 'stolen' from Englebart? (Doug?)
>>
>>Yes, as far as I know.
>>
>>I have a copy of the videotape of his presentation of the first
>>mouse-driven OS in 1967 (apparently he had invented the mouse several
>>years earlier but then needed to write an OS to use it on <g>).
>>
>>If you come to one of our LA RUG meetings I'll show it. :)\
> 
> 
> Cool.  What if you make a QT movie and post it somewhere?

It's already available in Real format:
<http://www.superfastcomputer.com/2003_02_16_previous.html>

(Video links are in the middle of the page)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Aug  2 04:44:06 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:44:06 +0200
Subject: voice mail recording
In-Reply-To: <3CDFA32C-E440-11D8-A5EF-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <FAA7FB98-E3F1-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<3CDFA32C-E440-11D8-A5EF-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <1CEE7132-E460-11D8-B94A-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hello All,

In about MP3 voice recording, the "Audio Recorder" v 1.4 by Ben 
Shanfelder need probably to be best knowed ;)

Le 2 ao?t 04, ? 06:55, Dan Shafer a ?crit :

>
> On Aug 1, 2004, at 12:35 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know what format is used or would be best for voice mail?
>
> Can't tell you what is standard, but the email voice mail I get from 
> my Vonage account comes in mp3 format.
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
> Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
> Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Mon Aug  2 04:56:36 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:56:36 +0200
Subject: question for pam.
Message-ID: <DC0D5E09-E461-11D8-AB1F-003065CC999E@pi.be>


	? 	From: Andre Garzia
	? 	 Subject: Re: question for pam.
	? 	 Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 18:07:10 -0700

-- snip
> it's not fiddling with image lib, for it's not only the background, 
> it's a new stack... but Rev Does Not Allow ME TO DELETE THAT DAMN 
> THING! it keeps coming back from the dead! Hell, I wish I had a 
> metacard license IDE here or a simple starter kit just to try.... 
> damn...

Wish come true. Fetch a copy of the MC IDE and put the rev player (on 
its own) inside that folder and you have a simple starters kit.


> andre

Greetings,
WA


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Mon Aug  2 04:58:16 2004
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:58:16 +0200
Subject: more libRMC
In-Reply-To: <20040802004723.99281930060@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD33CEC8.2405%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi Wolfgang,

Have you looked at it with Rev 2.1/2.2?

On my G4 400 with half the amount of Ram I?ve noticed that on 9 it runs
really smooth but not on X.2.6 with Rev 2.1/2.2.
I guess it?s the IDE coming in the way somehow as I noticed it speeds up to
the original speed when running as Standalone.

On X.2.6 and 2.5 Beta it runs very smooth and as fast as under 9.
With faster machines I?ve not noticed a speed delay on Rev 2.1 So maybe just
wait for 2.5 or build a standalone (or upgrade your computer? ;-) just
kiddin)
  
Best,

Malte
 
>But its not smooth here. (G4/400/1GB/10.3.4) Its jerky (ruckelig) like
>nearly all rev programmed animations i?v seen.


From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Aug  2 06:18:42 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:18:42 +0200
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <D1785F4F-E43B-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <D1785F4F-E43B-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <543609A2-E46D-11D8-B5C4-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 2 ao?t 04, ? 06:24, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :

>
> On Sunday, August 1, 2004, at 07:45 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>>
>> Le 1 ao?t 04, ? 23:32, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :
>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 31, 2004, at 04:56 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> About how to set up a Revolution applications server binded to  
>>>> PostgreSQL under Mac OS X or Linux, see
>>> B1 on Mac os X , doesn't work with postgres.
>>
>> Take care about the fact that the way i expose don't use the RevDB  
>> lib but direct shell() calls to the psql PostgreSQL's server-side  
>> connector.
> Now technical what is the difference between the two methods ?

1.- worked fine years before the introduction of the RevDB lib
2.- those MC/Rev applications servers are only doing what they are  
doing the best : working on the data presentation layer, in beetwin the  
Web server (one side) and (second side) the shell() + psql connector to  
the ACID compliant PostgreSQL RDBMS.
3.- works fine and very fast in all situations, including  
administration tasks alike new databases and tables creations or  
automatic "pg_dump" (backups) operations without stopping the  
production statu of the PostgreSQL server.
4.- least but not least : i didn't, at this time, got enought time to  
test RevDB and see if it's mature in about handling critical production  
tasks (over 400 connections/secs, 75% write mode transactions).

>>  Works fine in production, under Metacard 2.32 / 2.5 and Revolution  
>> 2.0 / 2.12 under both Linux x86 and Mac OS X 10.1 and UP. Not tested,  
>> for yet under Rev 2.2 and UP.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.google.com/search? 
>>>> as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>
>>>>
>>>> Le 31 juil. 04, ? 20:42, Bj?rnke von Gierke a ?crit :
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/
>>>>> http://rodney.buzzword.com/discuss/msgReader$155
>>>>> http://www.navaching.com/pagem.html
>>>>> http://mitchellonline.pasco.k12.fl.us/training/metacardcgi.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 31 2004, at 20:35, Rick Harrison wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been looking at all the information I can find thus far
>>>>>> about how to use Rev as a CGI web solution.  I'm finding
>>>>>> bits and pieces of stuff but nothing which really puts it
>>>>>> all together in a simple step by step process.
>>>>>> (I'm assuming that one doesn't exist at this point or I would
>>>>>> have found it.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The idea is of course to use MySQL and Rev. as the CGI
>>>>>> along with Apache or some other webserver capable of
>>>>>> doing SSL transactions.  In other words, a rather serious
>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've looked at Andre Garzia's httpd stack server.  I found
>>>>>> the concept very interesting.  I'm not able to follow his
>>>>>> documentation real well without illustrations etc. I was
>>>>>> very impressed!  I doubt that it will do SSL however.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I looked at the REV CGI introduction, it is a little unclear
>>>>>> on the permissions thing for setting it up on OS X. It obviously
>>>>>> uses the command line terminal unix stuff to create the right
>>>>>> hooks etc.  This appears to work through Apache so that will
>>>>>> solve the SSL problem.  I obviously need some better more
>>>>>> in depth resource to explore this further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm just now getting into the XML tutorial stack which at first
>>>>>> glance looks very good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Has anyone out there done an extensive website using Rev
>>>>>> and MySQL with Apache?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any other resources/examples you can recommend?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rick Harrison
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>>>>
>>>> 100, rue de Paris
>>>> F - 77140 Nemours
>>>>
>>>> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>>>>
>>>> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
>>>> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>>>> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>>>>
>>>> WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
>>>> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From kkaufman at snet.net  Mon Aug  2 08:24:06 2004
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:24:06 -0400
Subject: New England Rev User's Group??
In-Reply-To: <20040801185458.53AEC930277@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040801185458.53AEC930277@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D8F38B90-E47E-11D8-AEE6-0003937052EC@snet.net>


On Aug 1, 2004, at 2:54 PM, Marian (Petrides) wrote:

> Are there any other Rev users in New England?

I'm in another Woodstock (in NE Connecticut).
-Kurt

=====================

We'll be the country's toast
And rule from coast to coast,
Without legality but that's
just a technicality!

Ira Gershwin,
"Let 'em Eat Cake", 1933


From kkaufman at snet.net  Mon Aug  2 08:33:21 2004
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:33:21 -0400
Subject: Saving and Talking 
In-Reply-To: <20040802050218.10ACD930238@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040802050218.10ACD930238@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2405408C-E480-11D8-AEE6-0003937052EC@snet.net>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 1:02 AM, Greg Wills wrote:

> I can get the Distribution Builder to build a standalone that will save
> changes (button names).
>
  How do you do that?  I was under the impression that any persistent 
changes had to be made to a substack when running from a standalone.  
What I usually do is to open a small stack (which does nothing except 
allow me to initialize the Revolution runtime), immediately make it 
invisible,  and then open a secondary stack which allows changes to be 
saved (and in effect does all the work).

-Kurt


=====================

We'll be the country's toast
And rule from coast to coast,
Without legality but that's
just a technicality!

Ira Gershwin,
"Let 'em Eat Cake", 1933


From kevin at runrev.com  Mon Aug  2 07:45:43 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:45:43 +0100
Subject: Animation library
In-Reply-To: <410DCF32.90808@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BD33E7F7.1D1C%kevin@runrev.com>

On 2/8/04 6:20 am, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> Would it make sense to open source it?

It is now open source.  All that is happening is that we're not supporting
it ourselves.  We'll post it soon.  We're not abandoning doing animation in
Rev, just saying that there are better ways to do it, such as using the
Player object.  Look out for further improvements related to this area in
later releases.

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug  2 09:34:11 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 09:34:11 -0400
Subject: Using 2.5 beta: Handler low on memory
In-Reply-To: <20040802125656.CB7BC9300AA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD33BB13.2195%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

I have been trying the 2.5 beta and after about ten minutes of work on my
stack project I get "Handler Running Low on Memory" as an error in the
script error dialogue and I have to quit. It doesn't seem to matter what
command I an running just that I do some stuff for a while first. It makes
the beta un-useable. I don't think I can bugzilla this until:

1. I figure out how to use bugzilla which will be hard as bugzilla never
sent me the confirming email back for my password.

2. I have to keep testing so that I can get the error to come up after
something specific (although I could just send my stack to anyone and you
just use it for a while  and you will get the error).

Has this happened to anyone else?



From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Mon Aug  2 09:47:51 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:47:51 -0400
Subject: question for pam.
In-Reply-To: <7746DC41-E41F-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <FADE7CAA-E418-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<8326CB03-E41C-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<FFBC7A0E-E41D-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<7746DC41-E41F-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <8C44BC13-E48A-11D8-BE63-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

The first Virus written in Rev, perhaps?

On Aug 1, 2004, at 21:01, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 1, 2004, at 8:50 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>> I think that's the root of the problem, the replaced "Answer Dialog" 
>> stack... can someone with Metacard open the project and destroy the 
>> "answer dialog" and clear the profiles... from inside Rev I can't do 
>> that...
>
> It looks like one of the images from the default image library has 
> been modified. I'm not sure that would cause the whole problem...
>
> Somehow, something in the stack is effectively modifying the IDE, I 
> guess.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



________________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Get It Now At www.doteasy.com




From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 09:55:41 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:55:41 -0300
Subject: question for pam.
In-Reply-To: <8C44BC13-E48A-11D8-BE63-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
References: <FADE7CAA-E418-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<8326CB03-E41C-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<FFBC7A0E-E41D-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<7746DC41-E41F-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<8C44BC13-E48A-11D8-BE63-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <A46AAC6E-E48B-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 10:47 AM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:

> The first Virus written in Rev, perhaps?
>
>

No, it was just a misunderstanding between me, Revolution and common 
sense... I thought the "Answer Dialog" was the corrupt stack but I 
didn't got to try this tesis cause Rev didn't allow me to delete the 
damn thing, but Ken used metacard and spoted the right evil substack! 
:D

andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  2 10:31:35 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:31:35 -0400
Subject: Animation library
In-Reply-To: <BD33E7F7.1D1C%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BD33E7F7.1D1C%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A7FEDB72-E490-11D8-B4BC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 7:45 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:

> It is now open source.  All that is happening is that we're not 
> supporting
> it ourselves.  We'll post it soon.  We're not abandoning doing 
> animation in
> Rev, just saying that there are better ways to do it, such as using the
> Player object.  Look out for further improvements related to this area 
> in
> later releases.

Hey, that's great - both the open sourcing of the current, and the fact 
that RunRev is looking to make a better system.

FWIW - The specific "type" of animation I am referring to is more in 
the line of "interface animation." e.g. a panel of controls slides onto 
the screen, and each control fades up one after the other, after which 
the default control pulses... that sort of thing.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Mon Aug  2 10:31:52 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 08:31:52 -0600
Subject: Error 0,0 in Windows Standalone
In-Reply-To: <p06110401bd3205db6e7a@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <p06110401bd3205db6e7a@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <B2839542-E490-11D8-966C-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

On Jul 31, 2004, at 8:44 PM, pkc wrote:

>  Sometime in early July (can't be sure of the date), I upgraded to 
> 2.2.1 and then 2.2CR2 in rapid succession.

I don't know if this is relevant to your problem, but note that you 
probably don't want to "upgrade" from 2.2.1 to 2.2RC2. The latter is a 
release candidate (a sort of late-stage beta version.) After that came 
2.2 and then 2.2.1. Have you tried reinstalling the latest release?

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Mon Aug  2 11:17:12 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 17:17:12 +0200
Subject: clicking into some text, how ?
Message-ID: <410E5AF8.EB14F91E@Club-Internet.fr>

Hi guys,

suddenly I have a blank...

I have a fld with some text in it, and I want the cursor
to be placed and blink automatically at a certain place
in that text (between the 4th & 5th char of the 2nd word
of line 1, for instance).

How can I do that ?

thanks in advance,
JB


From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug  2 11:24:44 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:24:44 +0200
Subject: clicking into some text, how ?
In-Reply-To: <410E5AF8.EB14F91E@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <410E5AF8.EB14F91E@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <14CEDBBD-E498-11D8-BF22-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi jbv,

> Hi guys,
>
> suddenly I have a blank...
>
> I have a fld with some text in it, and I want the cursor
> to be placed and blink automatically at a certain place
> in that text (between the 4th & 5th char of the 2nd word
> of line 1, for instance).
>
> How can I do that ?

...
select before char 5 of word 2 of line 1 of fld 1
...

Hope that helps..

> thanks in advance,
> JB

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From pkc at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 11:25:34 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:25:34 -0400
Subject: Pamela nightmare over: post-mortem
In-Reply-To: <20040802125656.CB7BC9300AA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040802125656.CB7BC9300AA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110402bd3401646f91@[192.168.2.8]>

I heard from students this morning that the latest build actually 
opens and runs on Windows. Again, many thanks to the group for your 
great ideas, considerable direct efforts, and support.

To review, the problem was:  An application built in OSX that built 
and ran without any problems in OSX could not under any circumstances 
be transferred to and run by a Windows machine.  Invariably, the 
resulting error was "0,0".  The fix was:  Ken Ray used MetaCard to 
identify a corrupt substack, I rewrote it, rebuilt for WIndows, 
distributed it as an .exe file (no zipping, in this case), and it 
worked.  The successful build happened to be in Revolution 2.2.1, 
which I had freshly reinstalled after searching hundreds of archives 
looking for the licence number.

Sounds simple, but it is worth remembering that before the 
application of MetaCard (as Andre foresaw) to this problem, there was 
absolutely no clue to where the problem lay.  In the end, we found 
out only where the problem lay, not exactly what it was.  That was 
enough to fix it, but I still have some questions.

First, I can say this from my experience of rewriting the stack:

As it happened the corrupted stack was one of the oldest in the 
application, and had certainly been present in very much its current 
form from the earliest builds (the ones that went across to Windows 
with no problems). In one of the scripts I found a stray "the" in an 
instruction.  I'm not assuming this was the problem, since I would 
have no way of understanding exactly how a "the" can cause disaster. 
Normally, that is the kind or error that the script editor seems to 
pick up as soon as the instructions are applied.  Now, it is possible 
to save the script anyway (and with a lot of windows open that can 
happen by accident anyway), so if this the source of evil, I should 
report that it was found.

Questions about that.  Why would OSX happily work around such as 
error?  Is this a deprecation issue? If so, my feature request for 
Revolution 4.x or 5.x would be that it flag ambiguous items according 
to the standards of the least-likely-to-deprecate system (which I am 
guessing, in this case, is Windows).

Second, I found MANY scripts in this stack (and probably in others) 
afflicted by a pesky problem that has before this seemed to me to be 
merely an annoyance.  A lot of my scripts insert strange empty space 
between the last instruction and the bottom of the window.  In a very 
small number of cases, I have found for a long time that the script 
editor reports a compiling error when these strange spaces are 
present, and then compiles happily when I remove the space.  But 
removing the space is not usually final.  Some script windows keep 
putting the mystery space whenever the script is opened.  I sometimes 
just copy the script into a text editor, and delete the old script 
entirely, review it for errors (there are usually none), paste it 
back in a new window, apply immediately, close immediately, and save. 
These wrestling matches are sometimes annoying, but I've always been 
able to work around them and in any case the script editor seems to 
report what it sees as an error immediately.

Questions about that:  What is with the empty space misbehavior in 
the first place?  Is it dangerous? Can it corrupt a stack file? Is 
this also a deprecation issue (sort of, in reverse)?

I found nothing else in the visible stack instructions that seemed in 
any way possible to connect with a corrupted or malfunctioning stack.

Richard Gaskin asked about images.  There is a background image in 
the mainstack that distributes to the substacks.  No other images of 
any kind in the corrupted stack.  I agree that Photoshop provides the 
best images for Revolution, and I always use that, rendering usually 
jpg but sometimes png images for logos or backgrounds. All other 
images displayed via this application come from the server.

That is all I have to report concerning the corrupted stack. No idea 
whether any of the above is actually related to the cause of the 
corruption.  However, the process of dealing with this has raised a 
few other questions.

Regarding the immortal dialog stack that nobody could kill (Andre 
suggested that MetaCard could be lethal to it, however), and which 
Andre has immortalized in his screen shots:  What seemed to have 
happened (before the no-Windows crisis) was that I downloaded an 
alternative dialog stack because I hated the three-mile-wide default 
dialog thing.  Once it was brought in as a substack, it appeared in 
the application browser, and seemed to always pre-empt Revolution's 
own dialog stacks in the IDE. It was a strange neon color so I 
fiddled with it, but it always looked ugly and finally I zapped it. 
But, as Andre discovered, it did not die.  There was absolutely no 
way to get it out of the stack.  You could disappear it from the 
browser and save, but when you reopened the mainstack it would 
reappear again. I figured it kept appearing in the IDE because it had 
somehow preempted the Revolution dialog stacks, but in that case why 
did it keep reappearing in the application browser as if it belonged 
in my application even though it was now working for the IDE?

But here is something else kind of neat.  When I finally gave up 
trying to make the alternative dialog stack look presentable, I 
zapped it, and when it was reincarnated it had picked up the 
background image of the mainstack!  This was, in fact, highly 
desirable. I liked it. It carried over beautifully to the OSX builds 
(of course, I never saw it in the Windows builds). I might try to 
make it happen again. If this can be tamed, it would be a useful 
addition, maybe?

In the end, I rid myself of the immortal dialog stack by creating a 
new mainstack and pointing all the substacks to it.  That left the 
old mainstack and the immortal dialog stack in a little universe of 
their own, after which they were closed and consigned to the dustbin 
of history.

Finally, the question with which it all began:  What in creation is a 
"0,0" error?  I have tentatively decided to interpret this as:  "I 
don't have the slightest idea why I cannot open and run your 
perfectly good application."

Many thanks, again, to all of you.  My Windows students are now using 
the applications to busily catch up on their work (one imagines).  I 
will lie low for the rest of the term to let the embarrassment blow 
over, but resume my advocacy here for Revolution in our courses.

Best wishes,
Pamela Crossley




From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Mon Aug  2 11:34:59 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 17:34:59 +0200
Subject: clicking into some text, how ?
References: <410E5AF8.EB14F91E@Club-Internet.fr>
	<14CEDBBD-E498-11D8-BF22-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <410E5F22.702CCBB8@Club-Internet.fr>



Klaus,

>
> ....
> select before char 5 of word 2 of line 1 of fld 1
> ....

works perfect.

Thanks a bunch,
Jb


From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug  2 11:37:16 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:37:16 +0200
Subject: clicking into some text, how ?
In-Reply-To: <410E5F22.702CCBB8@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <410E5AF8.EB14F91E@Club-Internet.fr>
	<14CEDBBD-E498-11D8-BF22-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<410E5F22.702CCBB8@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <D54D5D58-E499-11D8-BF22-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi jbv,

> Klaus,
>> ....
>> select before char 5 of word 2 of line 1 of fld 1
>> ....
>
> works perfect.

I know :-D

> Thanks a bunch,
> Jb

Ciao ragazzo

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  2 11:38:32 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:38:32 -0400
Subject: Pamela nightmare over: post-mortem
In-Reply-To: <p06110402bd3401646f91@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040802125656.CB7BC9300AA@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110402bd3401646f91@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <02778044-E49A-11D8-B4BC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 11:25 AM, pkc wrote:

> But here is something else kind of neat.  When I finally gave up 
> trying to make the alternative dialog stack look presentable, I zapped 
> it, and when it was reincarnated it had picked up the background image 
> of the mainstack!  This was, in fact, highly desirable. I liked it. It 
> carried over beautifully to the OSX builds (of course, I never saw it 
> in the Windows builds). I might try to make it happen again. If this 
> can be tamed, it would be a useful addition, maybe?

This is called inheritance.  ;-)

In general, it is quite tame.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Mon Aug  2 11:50:27 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 17:50:27 +0200
Subject: 2 more questions about operations on text in fields
Message-ID: <410E62C1.90F3C959@Club-Internet.fr>

Question #1 :
I'm on Mac (french kbd), and strangely the following
script :

on keyup which
    put which
end keyup

doesn't catch french characters with accents (? ? etc)...
is there any settings to catch those keys ?

---------

Question #2 :
is there any equivalent to the "returninfield" message
to catch the use of the delete key on parts of text
contained in a field (in order to quickly know what's
left in the field once users have used the delete key, but
while the field still has the focus) ?

Thanks in advance (again),
JB


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 11:48:31 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:48:31 -0300
Subject: weird errors (was Re: Pamela nightmare over: post-mortem)
In-Reply-To: <p06110402bd3401646f91@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040802125656.CB7BC9300AA@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110402bd3401646f91@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <678372F0-E49B-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:25 PM, pkc wrote:

>
> Finally, the question with which it all began:  What in creation is a 
> "0,0" error?  I have tentatively decided to interpret this as:  "I 
> don't have the slightest idea why I cannot open and run your perfectly 
> good application."
>

I loved this one... it's better than the "Behold, here comes an Act of 
God!" behaviour I sometimes get here... like for example during RMS we 
created a function that accepted one parameter, it just echoed it back 
with a simple return call. The code was like this:

function getRect pRect
   put "The rect is: && pRect
   return pRect
end getRect

function test
    get getRect(the rect of something)
    answer it
end test


simple. Then what happened was, when we call function test, we receive 
our rect back nice and warm, but that debug put that we use in getRect 
rect function shows that pRect was empty, me, David and Trevor stod 
looking at this premonition behaviour of Rev for sometime, variable 
watcher showed us that the pRect (in the actual code was a global) was 
forever empty and yet the function received an echo with the correct 
value... no kidding! After many nights asleep I decided that bug was 
actually a feature, an Act of God, God was whispering the correct 
values to my software so that it runs as smoothly as I designed it no 
matter if the engines bug rendered the rest is spoiled and evil... 
Thank you Lord! :D

Andre



>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From wbl at wilddsl.net.au  Mon Aug  2 04:54:03 2004
From: wbl at wilddsl.net.au (Bruce Laidlaw)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 18:54:03 +1000
Subject: Error message running "Drawers"
In-Reply-To: <861824BC-E45E-11D8-A89C-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
References: <BD2EB546.23C5%malte.brill@t-online.de>
	<861824BC-E45E-11D8-A89C-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <410E012B.8050203@wilddsl.net.au>

Richmond,

I downloaded your "Drawers" stack but get an error message:

         executing at 6:44:26 PM
Type    Handler: can't find handler
Object    OPEN
Line    drawer "DROP"
Hint    drawer

I'm running Rev 2.0 on Mac OSX 10.2.8

What am I doing wrong?

Bruce

Bruce Laidlaw
Sydney, Australia

From Meitnik at aol.com  Mon Aug  2 12:16:33 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:16:33 EDT
Subject: menubar demo/tutorial anyone?
Message-ID: <b7.43a0e434.2e3fc2e1@aol.com>

Hi, I have been searching for a well done menubar teaching stack? Any one 
have one, or have a stack to share that I can study. The revmenubar is more 
complex than I need.

Thanks,
Andrew

From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Aug  2 12:23:18 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:23:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <410DB6D8.7060100@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408020922350.9893-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Cool!  When's the next one? (so I can save up my gasoline & babysitting
pennies) ;-)

Judy

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>  > Wasn't the mouse idea 'stolen' from Englebart? (Doug?)
>
> Yes, as far as I know.
>
> I have a copy of the videotape of his presentation of the first
> mouse-driven OS in 1967 (apparently he had invented the mouse several
> years earlier but then needed to write an OS to use it on <g>).
>
> If you come to one of our LA RUG meetings I'll show it. :)


From nonsanity at fluffandsuch.com  Mon Aug  2 12:24:57 2004
From: nonsanity at fluffandsuch.com (Nonsanity)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:24:57 -0400
Subject: First Use
In-Reply-To: <410E5AF8.EB14F91E@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <410E5AF8.EB14F91E@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <410E6AD9.2090004@fluffandsuch.com>

Well, I can tell you I was surprised to find that Hypercard's legacy 
lives on when, on a whim while wishing for the old ease of Hypercard's 
quick prototyping powers, I typed "HyperTalk OS X" into google and found 
Revolution. Happy camper here! I read Danny Goodman's original work 
cover-to-cover before we bought our first Mac. I broke open that 
Macintosh II's box on the way home from the dealer just to get at HC's 
manual. I eventually became the Hypercard guru on GEnie and the 
short-lived NVN (in the days before the widespread use of the internet).

I'm VERY happy to see there's a solution now on OS X.

HyperTalk came right back to me without a hitch, and I was coding away 
like mad. I can say I love the loss of the 30,000 character limit on 
text fields, and the speed increase is wonderful.

But, all good thing aside, I did have a few problems. I guess the first 
isn't so much a problem as an issue: The interface is not very clean, 
and deffinately not Mac-like at all. Even the original Hypercard was 
easier to work with. I understand that this is a multi-platform program 
now, but some attention needs to be put into the Mac version's interface 
at the very least.

The other problem was the seeming lack of a way to set the scroll of a 
text field from a script. Not knowing the current whereabouts of Danny's 
old book, I'm going on memory but shouldn't there be a command like:

set the scroll of fld "Output" to 30000

I often used this to scroll to the bottom of a long field that I was 
continually adding to.

  ~ Chris Innanen
  ~ Nonsanity


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Aug  2 12:28:18 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:28:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Animation library
In-Reply-To: <C9A6686D-E440-11D8-BB6E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408020924470.9893-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Comments below.

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Troy Rollins wrote:

> So, I ask this... was anyone using the animation library? If so or not,
> why, or why not? Should it be replaced? If so, with what? What might it
> look like or do differently than the old library did?

--Yes, I used it as a part of my very brief animation unit (along with
using a set the loc of image whatever to whatever; in addition to having
them use a *really* old shareware that makes rolling credits that they
could embed as a QT movie in a Rev app).

For low-end users (like teachers and students) I would like to see it
retained.  They're much less likely to say to themselves, "wow, a simple
little animation here would be cool.  I think I'll go learn Director/Flash
etc."

If it were to be retained and improved, I'd like to see it include a
simple curved line of motion that the user could edit ala Director.

FWIW...

Judy


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Mon Aug  2 12:35:58 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 18:35:58 +0200
Subject: 2 more questions about operations on text in fields
References: <410E62C1.90F3C959@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <410E6D6B.EE880599@Club-Internet.fr>


OK, I've found a single solution for the 2 problems,
simply by using
    send "check_my_field" to me in 0.1 seconds

and starting to check the content of the fld as soon as it
gets the focus, and stopping when that fld looses focus...

It works, but I was wondering if there was any more
elegant (less "brute force") solution...

JB


> Question #1 :
> I'm on Mac (french kbd), and strangely the following
> script :
>
> on keyup which
>     put which
> end keyup
>
> doesn't catch french characters with accents (? ? etc)...
> is there any settings to catch those keys ?
>
> ---------
>
> Question #2 :
> is there any equivalent to the "returninfield" message
> to catch the use of the delete key on parts of text
> contained in a field (in order to quickly know what's
> left in the field once users have used the delete key, but
> while the field still has the focus) ?
>
> Thanks in advance (again),
> JB
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 12:31:26 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:31:26 -0700
Subject: Animation library
In-Reply-To: <9D39A390-E446-11D8-9B38-0003930D06A0@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <20040802050217.8ADF4930234@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D39A390-E446-11D8-9B38-0003930D06A0@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <66907C71-E4A1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 1, 2004, at 10:41 PM, Terry Judd wrote:
> While the same level of integration with Rev and Flash clearly isn't 
> available, you can play Flash within QuickTime and with the help  of 
> Trevore Devore's QT external 
> (http://www.mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/enhancedqt.html) 
> even pass messages from Flash to Rev using FSCommand.  If the reverse 
> were also true...

I just purchased two great QT API books by Tim Monroe at Apple 
<http://books.elsevier.com/us//mk/us/subindex.asp?isbn=0120884011>.  
One of the books has some info about setting variables in a Flash movie 
and simulating button clicks.  I'm working on incorporating some 
slideshow creation code that generates a slideshow with audio from a 
xml file.  Maybe I can incorporate the extra flash stuff as well.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  2 12:34:57 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:34:57 -0400
Subject: First Use
In-Reply-To: <410E6AD9.2090004@fluffandsuch.com>
References: <410E5AF8.EB14F91E@Club-Internet.fr>
	<410E6AD9.2090004@fluffandsuch.com>
Message-ID: <E4523631-E4A1-11D8-B4BC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:24 PM, Nonsanity wrote:

> But, all good thing aside, I did have a few problems. I guess the 
> first isn't so much a problem as an issue: The interface is not very 
> clean, and deffinately not Mac-like at all. Even the original 
> Hypercard was easier to work with. I understand that this is a 
> multi-platform program now, but some attention needs to be put into 
> the Mac version's interface at the very least.

The new beta - 2.5 addresses a lot of interface look and feel. I'm on 
OSX, and it is a big improvement.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Aug  2 12:42:28 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:42:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Animation library
In-Reply-To: <BD33E7F7.1D1C%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408020941570.9893-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Glad to hear it!

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Kevin Miller wrote:

> We're not abandoning doing animation in
> Rev, just saying that there are better ways to do it, such as using the
> Player object.  Look out for further improvements related to this area in
> later releases.


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Aug  2 12:43:53 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using 2.5 beta: Handler low on memory
In-Reply-To: <BD33BB13.2195%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408020942450.9893-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Yes, Bill.  I posted this same problem a while back and others confirmed
it.

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Bill wrote:

> Has this happened to anyone else?


From pkc at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 12:45:07 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:45:07 -0400
Subject: Inheritance tame and wild
In-Reply-To: <20040802160040.E9EEC9300D0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040802160040.E9EEC9300D0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110403bd341eda5723@[192.168.2.8]>

A
I wrote:


>When I finally gave up
>  > trying to make the alternative dialog stack look presentable, I zapped
>>  it, and when it was reincarnated it had picked up the background image
>>  of the mainstack!  This was, in fact, highly desirable. I liked it. It
>>  carried over beautifully to the OSX builds (of course, I never saw it
>>  in the Windows builds). I might try to make it happen again. If this
>>  can be tamed, it would be a useful addition, maybe?


Troy wrote:

>This is called inheritance.  ;-)
>
>In general, it is quite tame.

Yes, I understand about inheritance in the substacks that I create 
and add to the application.  But I was surprised by spontaneous 
inheritance by dialog stacks that did not originate with me and that 
were being used freely by the IDE --especially when they carried over 
without problem to the OS X build.  I tried very briefly today to get 
this to happen on purpose, but was not successful. I can't find any 
documentation yet and will continue to read and experiment.

From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Mon Aug  2 12:49:19 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:49:19 -0400
Subject: 2 more questions about operations on text in fields
In-Reply-To: <410E6D6B.EE880599@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <410E62C1.90F3C959@Club-Internet.fr>
	<410E6D6B.EE880599@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <E5E2C56C-E4A3-11D8-BE63-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Try looking at the "User Interaction" category of the documentation 
built-in to revolution.  For example, look at the help for messages 
such as:

     deleteKey
     backspaceKey
     openField
     closeField
     exitField



On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:35, jbv wrote:

>
> OK, I've found a single solution for the 2 problems,
> simply by using
>     send "check_my_field" to me in 0.1 seconds
>
> and starting to check the content of the fld as soon as it
> gets the focus, and stopping when that fld looses focus...
>
> It works, but I was wondering if there was any more
> elegant (less "brute force") solution...
>
> JB
>
>
>> Question #1 :
>> I'm on Mac (french kbd), and strangely the following
>> script :
>>
>> on keyup which
>>     put which
>> end keyup
>>
>> doesn't catch french characters with accents (? ? etc)...
>> is there any settings to catch those keys ?
>>
>> ---------
>>
>> Question #2 :
>> is there any equivalent to the "returninfield" message
>> to catch the use of the delete key on parts of text
>> contained in a field (in order to quickly know what's
>> left in the field once users have used the delete key, but
>> while the field still has the focus) ?
>>
>> Thanks in advance (again),
>> JB
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



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From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 12:51:14 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:51:14 -0700
Subject: Animation library
In-Reply-To: <A7FEDB72-E490-11D8-B4BC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <BD33E7F7.1D1C%kevin@runrev.com>
	<A7FEDB72-E490-11D8-B4BC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <2A55BF86-E4A4-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 7:31 AM, Troy Rollins wrote:
> On Aug 2, 2004, at 7:45 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:
>
>> It is now open source.  All that is happening is that we're not 
>> supporting
>> it ourselves.  We'll post it soon.  We're not abandoning doing 
>> animation in
>> Rev, just saying that there are better ways to do it, such as using 
>> the
>> Player object.  Look out for further improvements related to this 
>> area in
>> later releases.
>
> Hey, that's great - both the open sourcing of the current, and the 
> fact that RunRev is looking to make a better system.
>
> FWIW - The specific "type" of animation I am referring to is more in 
> the line of "interface animation." e.g. a panel of controls slides 
> onto the screen, and each control fades up one after the other, after 
> which the default control pulses... that sort of thing.

Troy,

Maybe this isn't exactly what you are after but I have used the 
following handlers for interface animation.  I dynamically create the 
controls from a db in a group and then call the following to ease it 
onto the screen.  I've found that scripted animation works very well in 
Revolution.  If you want to see some really cool stuff track down some 
of samples that Scott Rossi has done.

Here is an example of using the libAnim_Ease function taken from my 
code:

libAnim_Ease id of group (pTarget & i), owner of group (pTarget & i), \
         item 1 of loc of group (pTarget & i), tOffsetLeft + (width of 
group (pTarget & i) / 2), \
         item 2 of loc of group (pTarget & i), item 2 of loc of group 
(pTarget & i), \
         false, 10, 10

If you set pWithMsgs to "true" then make sure you have the following 
messages in the message path:

libAnim_Finished
libAnim_Update


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




/**
  * Performs the ease animation on an object
  *
  * @param pObjID    objID      ID of the object to animate
  * @param pOwner    obj        Owner of the object to animate
  * @param pStartX   integer    Starting x position
  * @param pEndX     integer    Ending x position
  * @param pStartY   integer    Starting y position
  * @param pEndY     integer    Ending y position
  * @param pWithMsgs boolean    Whether to send updates to object on 
updates and finishing.
  * @param pSpeed    integer    Speed of animation in milliseconds.  How 
often message is sent.
  * @param pNumSteps integer    Number of steps to do the animation in
  */
on libAnim_Ease pObjID, pOwner, pStartX, pEndX, pStartY, pEndY, 
pWithMsgs, pSpeed, pNumsteps
   local tTarget

   put "control id " & pObjID & " of " & pOwner into tTarget

   set the libAnim["uCurrentStep"] of tTarget to 1
   set the libAnim["uNumSteps"] of tTarget to pNumsteps
   set the libAnim["uStepSizeX"] of tTarget to (pEndX - pStartX) / 
pNumSteps
   set the libAnim["uStepSizeY"] of tTarget to (pEndY - pStartY) / 
pNumSteps
   set the libAnim["uStepAngle"] of tTarget to 2 * pi / pNumSteps
   set the libAnim["uSendMessages"] of tTarget to pWithMsgs
   set loc of tTarget to pStartX, pStartY

   # Start animation
   libAnim_CosineInterpolation pObjID, pOwner, pSpeed
end libAnim_Ease


/**
  * Animates an object using cosine interpolation
  *
  * @param pObj   objID    ID of control to animate
  * @param pOwner obj      Owner of the object (long owner)
  * @param pSpeed integer  How often to resend the message in 
milliseconds.
  */
on libAnim_CosineInterpolation pObjID, pObjOwner pSpeed
   local tVelocityScale
   local tTarget

   put "control id " & pObjID & " of " & pObjOwner into tTarget

   put 1 - \
       cos (the libAnim["uCurrentStep"] of tTarget * the 
libAnim["uStepAngle"] of tTarget) \
       into tVelocityScale
   put item 1 of loc of tTarget into tX
   put item 2 of loc of tTarget into tY
   set loc of tTarget to (tX + (tVelocityScale * the 
libAnim["uStepSizeX"] of tTarget), \
       tY + (tVelocityScale * the libAnim["uStepSizeY"] of tTarget))
   set the libAnim["uCurrentStep"] of tTarget to the 
libAnim["uCurrentStep"] of tTarget + 1
   if (the libAnim["uCurrentStep"] of tTarget <= the 
libAnim["uNumSteps"] of tTarget) then
     send "libAnim_CosineInterpolation" && pObjID &","& pObjOwner & "," 
& pSpeed to me in pSpeed milliseconds
   else
     if (the libAnim["uSendMessages"] of tTarget = true) then
       send "libAnim_Finished" to tTarget
     end if
   end if
end libAnim_CosineInterpolation


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Mon Aug  2 12:54:29 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:54:29 +0200
Subject: 2 more questions about operations on text in fields
In-Reply-To: <410E6D6B.EE880599@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <9EF29878-E4A4-11D8-99B4-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>


I did a test with the handler in a stack's script and got the same 
problem.

But the special characters are properly passed in the keyDown message, 
also if the keyUp message is in a field script.

Have you check the deleteKey and backspaceKey messages ?

Thierry.

On Monday, Aug 2, 2004, at 18:35 Europe/Paris, jbv wrote:

>
> OK, I've found a single solution for the 2 problems,
> simply by using
>     send "check_my_field" to me in 0.1 seconds
>
> and starting to check the content of the fld as soon as it
> gets the focus, and stopping when that fld looses focus...
>
> It works, but I was wondering if there was any more
> elegant (less "brute force") solution...
>
> JB
>
>
>> Question #1 :
>> I'm on Mac (french kbd), and strangely the following
>> script :
>>
>> on keyup which
>>     put which
>> end keyup
>>
>> doesn't catch french characters with accents (? ? etc)...
>> is there any settings to catch those keys ?
>>
>> ---------
>>
>> Question #2 :
>> is there any equivalent to the "returninfield" message
>> to catch the use of the delete key on parts of text
>> contained in a field (in order to quickly know what's
>> left in the field once users have used the delete key, but
>> while the field still has the focus) ?
>>
>> Thanks in advance (again),
>> JB
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Mon Aug  2 12:55:40 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:55:40 -0400
Subject: First Use
In-Reply-To: <410E6AD9.2090004@fluffandsuch.com>
References: <410E5AF8.EB14F91E@Club-Internet.fr>
	<410E6AD9.2090004@fluffandsuch.com>
Message-ID: <C8CB3E45-E4A4-11D8-BE63-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

> The other problem was the seeming lack of a way to set the scroll of a 
> text field from a script. Not knowing the current whereabouts of 
> Danny's old book, I'm going on memory but shouldn't there be a command 
> like:
>
> set the scroll of fld "Output" to 30000
>

The properties of interest are "vScroll" and "hScroll", for vertical 
and horizontal scrolling, respectively.

set the vScroll of field "Output" to 30000

or

set the hScroll of field "Output" to 30000


Units appear to be in pixels?



________________________________________________________________
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From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Aug  2 12:56:33 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:56:33 -0400
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <543609A2-E46D-11D8-B5C4-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <E84657CC-E4A4-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Monday, August 2, 2004, at 06:18 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

>
> Le 2 ao?t 04, ? 06:24, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :
>
>>
>> On Sunday, August 1, 2004, at 07:45 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Le 1 ao?t 04, ? 23:32, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, July 31, 2004, at 04:56 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Take care about the fact that the way i expose don't use the RevDB 
>>> lib but direct shell() calls to the psql PostgreSQL's server-side 
>>> connector.
>> Now technical what is the difference between the two methods ?
>
> 1.- worked fine years before the introduction of the RevDB lib
> 2.- those MC/Rev applications servers are only doing what they are 
> doing the best : working on the data presentation layer, in beetwin 
> the Web server (one side) and (second side) the shell() + psql 
> connector to the ACID compliant PostgreSQL RDBMS.
> 3.- works fine and very fast in all situations, including 
> administration tasks alike new databases and tables creations or 
> automatic "pg_dump" (backups) operations without stopping the 
> production statu of the PostgreSQL server.
> 4.- least but not least : i didn't, at this time, got enought time to 
> test RevDB and see if it's mature in about handling critical 
> production tasks (over 400 connections/secs, 75% write mode 
> transactions).
Well the the db library in my opinion is good and fast , I do all kind 
of SQL work without any problems. but I'd still like to try out and see 
how to work with shell() for other things as you mentioned above for 
maintenance purposes . The question, where I can get some education on 
that .
Thanks, Hershel
>
> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>
> 100, rue de Paris
> F - 77140 Nemours
>
> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>
> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>
> WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  2 13:03:09 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:03:09 -0400
Subject: Animation library
In-Reply-To: <2A55BF86-E4A4-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BD33E7F7.1D1C%kevin@runrev.com>
	<A7FEDB72-E490-11D8-B4BC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<2A55BF86-E4A4-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <D4DC1F5A-E4A5-11D8-B4BC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:51 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:
> Here is an example of using the libAnim_Ease function taken from my 
> code:
>
> libAnim_Ease id of group (pTarget & i), owner of group (pTarget & i), \
>         item 1 of loc of group (pTarget & i), tOffsetLeft + (width of 
> group (pTarget & i) / 2), \
>         item 2 of loc of group (pTarget & i), item 2 of loc of group 
> (pTarget & i), \
>         false, 10, 10

Cool Trevor.

I'm not afraid of script animation either, in fact, I'm pretty used to 
it. Your code looks a lot like some of mine... well except mine would 
be littered with comments like "-- this probably doesn't do anything"  
;-D

I guess my greater point is that code like this should be integrated 
into an animation palette, which allows even those not accustomed to 
scripted animation to take advantage of animated interface features.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Aug  2 13:18:29 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 09:18:29 -0800
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <20040802125656.964139300A9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD33B763.7295%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi again,

>>> I have a copy of the videotape of his presentation of the first
>>> mouse-driven OS in 1967 (apparently he had invented the mouse several
>>> years earlier but then needed to write an OS to use it on <g>).
>>> 
>>> If you come to one of our LA RUG meetings I'll show it. :)\
>> 
>> 
>> Cool.  What if you make a QT movie and post it somewhere?
> 
> It's already available in Real format:
> <http://www.superfastcomputer.com/2003_02_16_previous.html>

Thanks much, I'll take a look.

Ken N.


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Aug  2 13:02:27 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:02:27 -0400
Subject: Using 2.5 beta: Handler low on memory
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408020942450.9893-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <BB893BBC-E4A5-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

As mentioned ( if I remember properly), it'll be fixed in the next Beta.
Hershel
On Monday, August 2, 2004, at 12:43 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> Yes, Bill.  I posted this same problem a while back and others 
> confirmed
> it.
>
> On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Bill wrote:
>
>> Has this happened to anyone else?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kee at kagi.com  Mon Aug  2 13:11:56 2004
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:11:56 -0700
Subject: First Use = vscroll
In-Reply-To: <410E6AD9.2090004@fluffandsuch.com>
References: <410E5AF8.EB14F91E@Club-Internet.fr>
	<410E6AD9.2090004@fluffandsuch.com>
Message-ID: <0E70E20C-E4A7-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 9:24 AM, Nonsanity wrote:

> The other problem was the seeming lack of a way to set the scroll of a 
> text field from a script. Not knowing the current whereabouts of 
> Danny's old book, I'm going on memory but shouldn't there be a command 
> like:
>
> set the scroll of fld "Output" to 30000
>
> I often used this to scroll to the bottom of a long field that I was 
> continually adding to.

That is exactly what I use it for also. I'll have a log field where the 
data is display chronologically and as I add stuff to it, I set the 
scroll so that the new stuff is visible and the old stuff scrolls off 
the top of the screen.

do a search in the runrev docs for vscroll

should show you the functionality you need. And if you also want 
horizontal scroll, look at hscroll

Kee Nethery


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Aug  2 13:22:16 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:22:16 -0700
Subject: Inheritance tame and wild
In-Reply-To: <p06110403bd341eda5723@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040802160040.E9EEC9300D0@mail.runrev.com>
 <p06110403bd341eda5723@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <a05100301bd3428294a42@[66.52.165.212]>

>I was surprised by spontaneous inheritance by dialog stacks that did 
>not originate with me and that were being used freely by the IDE

Hi Pamela,

It should only come as a surprise if the properties inherited are NOT 
set to empty (ie: "use onwer's") in the dialog stacks.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From kaveh at focalimage.com  Mon Aug  2 13:29:19 2004
From: kaveh at focalimage.com (Kaveh Bazargan)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:29:19 +0100
Subject: 2.5 cursor change
In-Reply-To: <BD33B763.7295%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BD33B763.7295%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <p06110403bd342a04a1cc@[192.168.1.61]>

At 9:18 am -0800 2/8/04, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:

[...]

>> It's already available in Real format:
>> <http://www.superfastcomputer.com/2003_02_16_previous.html>
>
>Thanks much, I'll take a look.

Thanks for this link. What a beautiful set of movies. Those were the days!!
-- 

--------------
Kaveh Bazargan
http://www.focalimage.com/
http://www.holographer.org/

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  2 13:35:01 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:35:01 -0700
Subject: weird errors (was Re: Pamela nightmare over: post-mortem)
In-Reply-To: <678372F0-E49B-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <20040802125656.CB7BC9300AA@mail.runrev.com>
 <p06110402bd3401646f91@[192.168.2.8]>
 <678372F0-E49B-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1312378590.20040802103501@ahsoftware.net>

Andre-

I have stopped using the debugger in 2.5b1 after numerous instances of
having my code looping into places I never designed it to, variables
sometimes showing up with proper values, other times not, etc. I hate
it when turning on the debugger makes my code act differently from not
using the debugger. Especially when quitting the IDE and launching it
again *sometimes* acts properly. These days I'll experiment with
things in the beta just for fun, but I do my work in 2.2.1.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From operoutka at volny.cz  Mon Aug  2 13:41:45 2004
From: operoutka at volny.cz (Old=?ISO-8859-2?B?+A==?=ich Peroutka)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 19:41:45 +0200
Subject: FW: Question about command revGoURL
In-Reply-To: <BD2F1A2E.138E%operoutka@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <BD344979.1399%operoutka@volny.cz>

 Hi Judy,
 
thank you Judy for your respond and I try to explain what I'm doing. I want
to open HTML file that is located on my local Hard Drive. This file is
"myFile.htm". The absolute path to this my file is /Macintosh HD/Mac
temp/data/myFile.htm, this path contains 2 spaces in name of folders
"Macintosh HD" and "Mac temp".

Than if I write:

revGoURL myDataFolder & "myFile.htm"

 -- myDataFolder contains the path on local HardDrive (=/Macintosh HD/Mac
temp/data) to file "myFile.htm"
-- myFile.htm is file in folder data on local Hard Disk, that I want to open
in Internet Explorer (or other default browser).
 
After the Internet Explorer is open, one is looking for file with path:
Macintosh%20HD/Mac%20temp/data/myFile.htm. This path doesn't exist.

Sorry for my English, thanks

Oldrich

>> Hi,
>> 
>> I am not certain I correctly understand what you are doing, but if what
>> you are trying to do is tell Rev the path of your web browser, you needn't
>> do that.  If all you want to do is have Rev open a web browser and then go
>> to some URL, all you need to do is:
>> 
>> on mouseUp
>> revGoURL "http://www.yourURL.com"
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> Does this help or am I completely not understanding what you are trying to
>> do?
>> 
>> Judy
>> 
>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Old[ISO-8859-2] ?ich Peroutka wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Can anybody help me with the command ?revGoURL?? I?m the beginner with
>>> REVOLUTION (Runrev 2.2 for Mac OS 9.2.2 cz) and I have this problem.
>>> 
>>> My script is:
>>> 
>>> on mouseUp
>>>          ....
>>>          ....
>>> -- define myDefaultFolder and myDataFolder
>>> put ?/Macintosh HD/Mac temp/myFolder?  into myDefaultFolder
>>> put myDefaultFolder & ?/data/?  into myDataFolder
>>> -- ?myDataFolder? is /Macintosh HD/Mac temp/myFolder/data/
>>>         .....
>>>         .....
>>> set defaultFolder to myDataFolder
>>> revGoURL myDataFolder & ?myFile.htm?
>>> 
>>> or only
>>> 
>>> revGoURL  ?myFile.htm?
>>> 
>>> end mouseUp
>>> 
>>> It is one and the same if I write the first or the second way. The
>>> performance (path of file that Internet Explorer is looking for) is other
>>> but the result is the same ? Error in opened ?Internet Explorer? that one
>>> tells me ?the file doesn?t exist?.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The problem is, that all spaces in path (myDataFolder) are replaced with
>>> ?%20?. My ?Internet Explorer? is started OK but it is searching file
>>> with path ?/Macintosh%20HD/Mac%20temp/myFolder/data/myFile.htm?.
>>> This path doesn? t exist of course. Why the spaces but only the spaces in
>>> the path  of file are replaced with %20. ? %20? is the HEXcode of space.
>>> 
>>> If I write:
>>> 
>>> launch myDataFolder  & ?myFile.htm? with path2Explorer &  ?Internet
>>> Explorer?
>>> -- in path2Explorer is path to the programm ?Internet Explorer?.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All is OK. But by this way I have to know where my Internet Explorer on
>>> HarDrive is (or alternative browser), path to him.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks all
>>> 
>>> Oldrich
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> 
>> 
>> 

------ End of Forwarded Message


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 13:45:35 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:45:35 -0700
Subject: Using 2.5 beta: Handler low on memory
In-Reply-To: <BB893BBC-E4A5-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <BB893BBC-E4A5-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <410E7DBF.5020007@fourthworld.com>

Hershel Fisch wrote:
> As mentioned ( if I remember properly), it'll be fixed in the next Beta.
> Hershel
> On Monday, August 2, 2004, at 12:43 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
> 
>> Yes, Bill.  I posted this same problem a while back and others confirmed
>> it.

Kevin noted here that the issue is not actually memory-related, but that 
the actual cause of the error can be found by looking at the second item 
in that window.  This will at least let you get back to work while 
waiting for B2.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  2 13:45:40 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:45:40 -0700
Subject: Pamela nightmare over: post-mortem
In-Reply-To: <p06110402bd3401646f91@[192\.168\.2\.8]>
References: <20040802125656.CB7BC9300AA@mail.runrev.com>
 <p06110402bd3401646f91@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <1263017719.20040802104540@ahsoftware.net>

pkc-

Monday, August 2, 2004, 8:25:34 AM, you wrote:

p> Regarding the immortal dialog stack that nobody could kill (Andre
p> suggested that MetaCard could be lethal to it, however), and which 
p> Andre has immortalized in his screen shots:  What seemed to have 
p> happened (before the no-Windows crisis) was that I downloaded an 
p> alternative dialog stack because I hated the three-mile-wide default
p> dialog thing.  Once it was brought in as a substack, it appeared in
p> the application browser, and seemed to always pre-empt Revolution's
p> own dialog stacks in the IDE. It was a strange neon color so I 
p> fiddled with it, but it always looked ugly and finally I zapped it.
p> But, as Andre discovered, it did not die.  There was absolutely no 
p> way to get it out of the stack.  You could disappear it from the 
p> browser and save, but when you reopened the mainstack it would 
p> reappear again. I figured it kept appearing in the IDE because it had
p> somehow preempted the Revolution dialog stacks, but in that case why
p> did it keep reappearing in the application browser as if it belonged
p> in my application even though it was now working for the IDE?

(putting on my tin-foil hat...) is there some chance that the
alternative dialog stack you downloaded had the same name as the
original in the IDE and somehow got saved over it? Or took precedence
over it in the message hierarchy?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From kaveh at focalimage.com  Mon Aug  2 13:50:21 2004
From: kaveh at focalimage.com (Kaveh Bazargan)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:50:21 +0100
Subject: 2.5 public beta?
In-Reply-To: <p06110403bd342a04a1cc@[192.168.1.61]>
References: <BD33B763.7295%pixelbird@interisland.net>
 <p06110403bd342a04a1cc@[192.168.1.61]>
Message-ID: <p06110406bd342f30d80b@[192.168.1.61]>

Is this a public beta? If so which is the url? If not, why are the
discussions on this list? ;-)
-- 

--------------
Kaveh Bazargan
http://www.focalimage.com/
http://www.holographer.org/

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 13:51:22 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:51:22 -0700
Subject: Looking for more info on hScroll
In-Reply-To: <7B058B80-E343-11D8-AAD2-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <7B058B80-E343-11D8-AAD2-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <913D033E-E4AC-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Jul 31, 2004, at 3:46 PM, Wouter wrote:
>>  I did some more tests and I think the design of my slider is what is 
>> causing the problem. I added a call which prints out the value of 
>> formattedWidth - width - margins - borderWidth and as my custom group 
>> slider got to the end of the group the value increased. My custom 
>> slider which is part of the group itself was extending past the 
>> previous extreme right side of the group and adding a couple of more 
>> pixels to the group. Though the formattedHeight increases the highest 
>> value of hScroll for the group doesn't seem to be updated. I will 
>> keep fiddling around and see if I can pinpoint exactly what is going 
>> on though.
>>
> Aha you used a custom slider in the group. I thought you used the 
> horizontal scrollbar of the group itself.
> I bugzilla'ed an extra problem with sliders (bug #1912). May be this 
> applies also in your case.
> Be careful with the value of the thumbpos if the numberformat is not 
> used.
> You *see* ints but internally it still remain decimals which are 
> trunc-rounded in a weird way when needed in for example a repeat loop.

I actually use a scrollbar control as well as a slider that is inside 
the group being scrolled.  Think of a video editor like iMovie where 
you have a slider that moves through the video but also a slider that 
moves the entire video timeline when you are zoomed in.  When I was 
moving the video slider that is inside the group it was coming to the 
end of my timeline graphic and extending slightly past the edge.  This 
changed the formattedWidth of the group but the maximum hScroll 
property would not increase.  I need to do simpler test to see if this 
is a bug or not.  I fixed the problem by adding a small buffer to the 
left and right of my timeline so that the video slider would not 
increase the formattedWidth when it got to the edges.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug  2 13:55:13 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:55:13 -0500
Subject: 2 more questions about operations on text in fields
In-Reply-To: <410E6D6B.EE880599@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <410E62C1.90F3C959@Club-Internet.fr>
	<410E6D6B.EE880599@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <410E8001.7060300@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/2/04 11:35 AM, jbv wrote:

>Question #1 :
>I'm on Mac (french kbd), and strangely the following
>script :
>
>on keyup which
>    put which
>end keyup
>
>doesn't catch french characters with accents (? ? etc)...
>is there any settings to catch those keys ?

I haven't tried it, but does rawkeydown or rawkeyup work?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug  2 13:56:52 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:56:52 -0500
Subject: menubar demo/tutorial anyone?
In-Reply-To: <b7.43a0e434.2e3fc2e1@aol.com>
References: <b7.43a0e434.2e3fc2e1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <410E8064.7020506@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/2/04 11:16 AM, Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

> Hi, I have been searching for a well done menubar teaching stack? Any one 
> have one, or have a stack to share that I can study. The revmenubar is more 
> complex than I need.

Not sure how well-done it is or whether it is what you are looking for, 
but there is a discussion of menu bars and how they work within my 
conversion tutorial:

<http://www.hyperactivesw.com/mctutorial/rrtutorialtoc.html>

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Aug  2 14:11:55 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:11:55 +0200
Subject: Ann: WinN2O 1.5 beta 
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bd3428294a42@[66.52.165.212]>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGELJGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Hi everyone,

I've working like mad on this version... 
About 300 more features! ;))

The group and go menu are still in the works and may not make it
given the low need...

The updates of the list is not always automatic if the stack is installed 
as front or backscript but coming soon ;)

Only the Windows views is fully tested. 

Only tested on XP... 

So if you want to look... 

check it out

Screenshot
http://www.monsieurx.com/hyper/stacks/WinN2O15beta.gif
Download
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=59
Cheers
Xavier

From bill at igame3d.com  Mon Aug  2 13:59:51 2004
From: bill at igame3d.com (william griffin)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:59:51 -0400
Subject: menubar demo/tutorial 
In-Reply-To: <20040802173253.606409300E3@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040802173253.606409300E3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C059AA9E-E4AD-11D8-936D-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

>
>    1. Re: menubar demo/tutorial anyone? (Meitnik at aol.com)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:16:33 EDT
> From: Meitnik at aol.com
> Subject: Re: menubar demo/tutorial anyone?
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Message-ID: <b7.43a0e434.2e3fc2e1 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hi, I have been searching for a well done menubar teaching stack? Any 
> one
> have one, or have a stack to share that I can study. The revmenubar is 
> more
> complex than I need.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew

Since I've run into a bug creating the most ludicrously overflowing rev 
breaking menuBar in recorded
history, and my spam blocker had me off the list for awhile these seems 
like a good time and place
for me to jump back into things.

It would help if i knew what you were trying to accomplish of course, 
but here is the simple system.
Menu Builder, add items, generate the skeleton of the button scripts 
with that provided button, then
edit the script and fill in the needed data between the cases.

Script By Hand: Single Menu Items

on menuPick myPick
switch myPick
case "Open"
answer file "Pick some file"
if it is not empty then
put it into myFile
open file myFile for read
   read from file myFile until eof
   put it into field 1
end if
break
end switch
end menuPick

the pattern follows for all other options, after two or three of those 
you've got it down to a science.

Script by hand: Multiple items/sub items
Lets say we have an item we want as sub menu, we'll put it into a 
button called myMenu of our menuBar group called "myMainMenu", you do 
this

put "toplevel menu" & return & tab & "second level" into cd btn 
"myMenu" of group "myMainMenu"

to add a third level of menu into that same button works like this
put "toplevel menu" & return & tab & "second level" & return & tab & 
tab & "third level" into cd btn "myMenu" of group "myMainMenu"

Now to pick from this you would use this process.

on menuPick myPick1 myPick2
put myPick1 & myPick2 into myRealPick
--- a multi level menu pick of this button would produce "toplevel menu 
| second level menu | third level"
--- I've added space so you can see the bar character which denotes the 
items picked
switch  myRealPick
case "toplevel menu|second level menu|third level"
---do something with your item picked
---I've not found a way of picking the top two levels in a button like 
this, seems you must pick the final sub item
break
end switch
end menuPick

OK hope that helps, if you run into trouble just shout.

Mr Bill


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 14:14:58 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:14:58 -0700
Subject: Pamela nightmare over: post-mortem
In-Reply-To: <p06110402bd3401646f91@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040802125656.CB7BC9300AA@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110402bd3401646f91@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <410E84A2.30400@fourthworld.com>

Hello Pam -

> Richard Gaskin asked about images.  There is a background image in the
> mainstack that distributes to the substacks.  No other images of any
> kind in the corrupted stack.  I agree that Photoshop provides the best
> images for Revolution, and I always use that, rendering usually jpg
> but sometimes png images for logos or backgrounds. All other images
> displayed via this application come from the server.

What I had asked was:

     "Just a wild guess:  are there any image objects there?
      If so, what happens if you remove only those?"

I looked at your stack file.  None of the substacks themselves nor their
cards appear to be corrupted.  I removed the three images from the
substack "MONGOL_EDIT" and it opened fine on Windows.

It may be that only one of the images has bad data, but I didn't have
time to do the trial-and-error of deleting one at a time until I found
the culprit.

I'm at a loss to determine why the images would work well on Mac OS and
not Win, but the exercise was instructive in serving as a reminder about
the nature of corruption and how understanding that can help diagnose
problems.


If you come from a HyperCard, SuperCard, or FileMaker background it's
understandable that a wide variety of unexpected behaviors will be
viewed as file corruption.  But the notorious 5454 error that plagued
all but the most dilligent HyperCard users (that would be Paul Looney
<g>) is a card-level corruption that is almost entirely unknown with Rev.

In Rev, in the very rare cases that something is corrupted in my
experience it's limited to a single control rather than the card or
stack record.  In working with the engine for more than seven years I've
seen only one such case many years ago, and while I've heard of others
their descriptions do not appear consistent with actual corruption.  In
all but one case I've seen firsthand things that were reported as 
corruption turned out not to be (with the one exception from seven years 
ago being an image control).

I've written about corruption before, and to avoid sounding like a
broken record I'll just provide links to that background discussion if
it's of interest:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-June/017928.html>
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-December/010842.html>
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-December/010776.html>

The most relevant point is the one Scott Raney closes with in the last
of those posts

     If you've got something that you can reproduce, by all means
     send in a bug report so that we can make it even rarer ;-)

It would be helpful to send a note to support at runrev.com with a note on
how to get the stackfile.  It might also be very helpful if you have the
original image files used in that stack, so they can be compared with
the image data in the imported image objects.


How did I know the images were the culprit?

Like I said, it was just a guess.  But in the only case of actual
corruption I've ever seen firsthand the cause turned out to be an
imported image object, so it seemed worth trying those first.

I can't stress enough how useful it can be to try to forget the scarring
experiences of stack- or card-level corruption you may have encountered
with other tools when diagnosing problems encountered with Rev.

When something is corrupted the remedy usually involves deleting the
offending object and rebuilding it.  If you decide it's a card or a
stack or the entire stack file before you really know if that's the
case, you can spend a great deal of time rebuilding objects that don't
need to be rebuilt.  If the engine can open the file, any problem can 
probably be fixed with relative ease.

In seven years with the engine, your image objects are only the second
instance of corruption I've seen.  And the remedy was far simpler than
what's normally needed for correcting corruption issues in HyperCard.

The only other case of corruption I've seen was also with imported image
objects, but this is understandable as imported image objects are
complex creatures in which most of the data the engine's dealing with
was created by some other app.  I've never seen a corrupted object which
was created entirely by the engine itself; not to say it can't happen,
but it's rare enough that I don't think about it.

And before you get the impression that imported images are somehow
problematic, consider the odds:  Think of the number of Rev users and
the number of images they import into stacks every year, and remember
that the engine's been around since 1992 with very few verifiable cases
of corruption.

Since 1997 I've only seen two such cases, so I have a high degree of
confidence that corruption does not occur with 99.9999% of imported
image objects, and 99.999999999999999% all other objects. :)

Summary on corruption:

1. Most of the time when the engine reports corruption it's a case of an
interrupted save, and you'll find an intact copy of your stack with the
same name preceeded by "~" waiting for you in the same folder as the
"short saved" stack.

2. If the engine reports corruption and there's no such backup stack, 
see if there's a way to open the stack file, such as on a different
platform.  Look at imported images first, and with some trial and error
you can usually find the culprit in short order.

3. If you see a behavior that looks like it might be corruption but the 
engine doesn't report it as corruption it probably isn't corruption, so 
looking elsewhere at scripts and/or IDE bugs may the best way to look 
for the root cause.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev



From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Mon Aug  2 14:28:09 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 20:28:09 +0200
Subject: 2 more questions about operations on text in fields
References: <410E62C1.90F3C959@Club-Internet.fr>
	<410E8001.7060300@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <410E87B5.2F5CFE4E@Club-Internet.fr>

Here's the solution I'm using.
It's rather simple, it catches any character with accent,
as well as any delete action by end users.
the variable theString always contains the latest content
of the field.
The following handlers should be put in the field's script :


on openfield
  send "check_fld" to me in 0.1 seconds
end openfield

on check_fld
  global theString
  put fld "Myfld" into theString
  if (the long id of me) = (the focusedobject) then
    send "check_fld" to me in 0.1 seconds
  end if
end check_fld

Hope that helps

JB


From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug  2 14:39:44 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:39:44 +0200
Subject: OT: large REV projects
Message-ID: <52CF0F07-E4B3-11D8-BF22-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi list,

at last!

Finally the appropriate storage device for large REV projects arrived!

http://www.iomega-europe.com/eu/shop.aspx?category_name=REVType

:-D


Have a nice day/envening

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Mon Aug  2 14:56:47 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 20:56:47 +0200
Subject: rawkeydown & rawkeyup (was : 2 more questions about operationson 
 text in fields)
References: <410E62C1.90F3C959@Club-Internet.fr>
	<410E8001.7060300@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <410E8E6E.2736B3EC@Club-Internet.fr>



"J. Landman Gay" a *crit :

>
> I haven't tried it, but does rawkeydown or rawkeyup work?
>

BTW rawkeydown and rawkeyup both work, but then, how do you
map the raw keynumber with the corresponding char ?
the numtochar can't be used in this situation...

Thanks,
JB


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Mon Aug  2 07:58:56 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:58:56 -0400
Subject: update on pamela crisis
In-Reply-To: <410DBC68.4020704@fourthworld.com>
References: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110404bd32f346e3bd@[192.168.2.8]> <410D5230.7040607@chipp.com>
	<23A2609E-E401-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<86E002AA-E40C-11D8-9986-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<0388DD38-E411-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<72258978-E412-11D8-9A37-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<DC45C386-E413-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<410DBC68.4020704@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <54E35444-E47B-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

No.  Just a general statement. Sorry.

On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:00 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>>  I thought about that but, if that's the case, why does it work just 
>> fine on the Mac?  Works OK both in the IDE and as a standalone.
>> But having dealt with corrupt apps before
>
> In Rev?
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________
>  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 15:03:41 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:03:41 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
Message-ID: <AAFFF388-E4B6-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

Does anyone know if there is a way to determine if a file is on a USB 
Flash drive (vs a CD-ROM or a Hard Drive)?

I'm looking for methods for Windows and Mac OS X.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Mon Aug  2 15:11:39 2004
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:11:39 -0400
Subject: MySQL: .rev main stack called from standalone rev app
Message-ID: <OF522CBC0A.3C9DE140-ON85256EE4.005E1BCC-85256EE4.00697EA2@sealedair.com>

PLATFORM:       MacOSX (10.3.4)
ISSUE:  MySQL commands not working
DESCRIPTION:    We have a small, standalone "client" Rev app (MacOSX 
10.3.4) that shows a splash screen and calls a separate .rev main stack, 
which is the main guts of the application.  The client app is on the 
user's Mac (>40 users), and the .rev main stack is on the server.  This 
way, when we make changes/updates to the application, everyone is running 
the latest version.  The main application uses MySQL commands.  The MySQL 
commands work fine in development mode, and if I build it as a standalone 
app.  However, the MySQL commands do not work when the .rev main stack 
(not a standalone) is called by the client app.  I have set my standalone 
settings for the client app to include the MySQL Database Support.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks...James

From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Aug  2 15:12:40 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:12:40 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <AAFFF388-E4B6-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <BD33E038.CC08%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Trevor DeVore"  wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is a way to determine if a file is on a USB
> Flash drive (vs a CD-ROM or a Hard Drive)?
> 
> I'm looking for methods for Windows and Mac OS X.

Windows, I don't know, but on OS X maybe you might be able to get something
from System Profiler?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Aug  2 15:23:52 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:23:52 -0500
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <BD33E038.CC08%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BD33FEF8.299B%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/2/04 2:12 PM, "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> Recently, "Trevor DeVore"  wrote:
> 
>> Does anyone know if there is a way to determine if a file is on a USB
>> Flash drive (vs a CD-ROM or a Hard Drive)?
>> 
>> I'm looking for methods for Windows and Mac OS X.
> 
> Windows, I don't know, but on OS X maybe you might be able to get something
> from System Profiler?

Well, I know you can find out what type a drive is (like removable, fixed,
etc.) on Windows, but I don't know if you can find out specifically if it's
a USB flash drive vs. a Zip drive, etc.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 15:27:04 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:27:04 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <AAFFF388-E4B6-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <AAFFF388-E4B6-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <410E9588.8000409@fourthworld.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is a way to determine if a file is on a USB 
> Flash drive (vs a CD-ROM or a Hard Drive)?
> 
> I'm looking for methods for Windows and Mac OS X.

I don't know one, but I recently voted for adding "the detailed volumes" 
to Transcript for just that purpose:

<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=101>

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug  2 15:52:38 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:52:38 -0500
Subject: rawkeydown & rawkeyup (was : 2 more questions about operations
 on  text in fields)
In-Reply-To: <410E8E6E.2736B3EC@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <410E62C1.90F3C959@Club-Internet.fr>
	<410E6D6B.EE880599@Club-Internet.fr> <410E8001.7060300@hyperactivesw.com>
	<410E8E6E.2736B3EC@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <410E9B86.9080908@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/2/04 1:56 PM, jbv wrote:

 > BTW rawkeydown and rawkeyup both work, but then, how do you
 > map the raw keynumber with the corresponding char ?
 > the numtochar can't be used in this situation...

Good question. I usually only use it when I need to trap specific keys, 
and I build a switch statement around those. If you need to trap every 
key then you may be better off with your other solution. What is the 
goal for this handler?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 16:09:06 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:09:06 -0300
Subject: about SQLite?
Message-ID: <CE6BC7FB-E4BF-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

any info on the SQLite front? I am about to buy valentina tonight if no 
info on SQLite apears, I need a database I can distribute with the 
apps, there's no point in making small sharewares and asking user to 
install and manage MySQL.

andre
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 16:09:49 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:09:49 -0700
Subject: MySQL: .rev main stack called from standalone rev app
In-Reply-To: <OF522CBC0A.3C9DE140-ON85256EE4.005E1BCC-85256EE4.00697EA2@sealedair.com>
References: <OF522CBC0A.3C9DE140-ON85256EE4.005E1BCC-85256EE4.00697EA2@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <E8230ACD-E4BF-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:11 PM, James.Cass at sealedair.com wrote:

> PLATFORM:       MacOSX (10.3.4)
> ISSUE:  MySQL commands not working
> DESCRIPTION:    We have a small, standalone "client" Rev app (MacOSX
> 10.3.4) that shows a splash screen and calls a separate .rev main 
> stack,
> which is the main guts of the application.  The client app is on the
> user's Mac (>40 users), and the .rev main stack is on the server.  This
> way, when we make changes/updates to the application, everyone is 
> running
> the latest version.  The main application uses MySQL commands.  The 
> MySQL
> commands work fine in development mode, and if I build it as a 
> standalone
> app.  However, the MySQL commands do not work when the .rev main stack
> (not a standalone) is called by the client app.  I have set my 
> standalone
> settings for the client app to include the MySQL Database Support.

I imagine that the revdb external is being applied to to the stack 
(splash) that is being used  to create the executable.  In your client 
stack start using the stack that was used to create the exe.  So if 
your splash stack was named "mySplash" then in your client stack do 
something like this:

start using stack "mySplash"

This will make the revdb calls available in the message path.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 16:10:58 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:10:58 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <410E9588.8000409@fourthworld.com>
References: <AAFFF388-E4B6-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<410E9588.8000409@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <11746BEC-E4C0-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:27 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if there is a way to determine if a file is on a USB  
>> Flash drive (vs a CD-ROM or a Hard Drive)?
>> I'm looking for methods for Windows and Mac OS X.
>
> I don't know one, but I recently voted for adding "the detailed  
> volumes" to Transcript for just that purpose:
>
> <http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi? 
> id=101>

Maybe I will mosey on over to bugzilla and cast a vote or five.



-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  2 16:14:51 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:14:51 -0400
Subject: about SQLite?
In-Reply-To: <CE6BC7FB-E4BF-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <CE6BC7FB-E4BF-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <9C9EB7E2-E4C0-11D8-B4BC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 4:09 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> any info on the SQLite front? I am about to buy valentina tonight if 
> no info on SQLite apears, I need a database I can distribute with the 
> apps, there's no point in making small sharewares and asking user to 
> install and manage MySQL.

I know how you feel. I'm very interested in SQLite and Rev, as I use 
SQLite anyway. Apparently, it is going to be an add-on at every license 
level, but AFAIK there hasn't been any indication of cost yet.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 16:21:27 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:21:27 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <BD33FEF8.299B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD33FEF8.299B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <888B64C4-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

I'm responding to two messages at once.  Please don't think less of me 
;-)

On 8/2/04 2:12 PM, "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
>
> Windows, I don't know, but on OS X maybe you might be able to get 
> something
> from System Profiler?

This looks promising.  Now, is there a command line tool that gives 
this info in OS X...


On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:23 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Well, I know you can find out what type a drive is (like removable, 
> fixed,
> etc.) on Windows, but I don't know if you can find out specifically if 
> it's
> a USB flash drive vs. a Zip drive, etc.

Hmm, if I could tell the difference between a CD-ROM and USB that would 
be great.  I'm still in the pondering stages of something but the idea 
is basically that we may have a training app distributed on USB flash 
drive (still have to do some speed tests, etc.).  We don't need hard 
core copy protection but one of the things we don't want the casual 
user to do is burn the data to a CD and give it to their friend.  I'm 
just looking at different methods I might be able to use to tie data to 
a USB flash drive.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 16:23:11 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:23:11 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <888B64C4-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BD33FEF8.299B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<888B64C4-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <C68A5884-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 1:21 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
> On 8/2/04 2:12 PM, "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
>>
>> Windows, I don't know, but on OS X maybe you might be able to get 
>> something
>> from System Profiler?
>
> This looks promising.  Now, is there a command line tool that gives 
> this info in OS X...

/usr/sbin/system_profiler


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Mon Aug  2 16:25:12 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:25:12 -0400
Subject: Question about command revGoURL
In-Reply-To: <BD344979.1399%operoutka@volny.cz>
References: <BD344979.1399%operoutka@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <0EA667B9-E4C2-11D8-BE63-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Try:

revGoURL "file:" & myDataFolder & "myFile.htm"


On Aug 2, 2004, at 13:41, Old?ich Peroutka wrote:

>  Hi Judy,
>
> thank you Judy for your respond and I try to explain what I'm doing. I 
> want
> to open HTML file that is located on my local Hard Drive. This file is
> "myFile.htm". The absolute path to this my file is /Macintosh HD/Mac
> temp/data/myFile.htm, this path contains 2 spaces in name of folders
> "Macintosh HD" and "Mac temp".
>
> Than if I write:
>
> revGoURL myDataFolder & "myFile.htm"
>
>  -- myDataFolder contains the path on local HardDrive (=/Macintosh 
> HD/Mac
> temp/data) to file "myFile.htm"
> -- myFile.htm is file in folder data on local Hard Disk, that I want 
> to open
> in Internet Explorer (or other default browser).
>
> After the Internet Explorer is open, one is looking for file with path:
> Macintosh%20HD/Mac%20temp/data/myFile.htm. This path doesn't exist.
>
> Sorry for my English, thanks
>
> Oldrich
>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am not certain I correctly understand what you are doing, but if 
>>> what
>>> you are trying to do is tell Rev the path of your web browser, you 
>>> needn't
>>> do that.  If all you want to do is have Rev open a web browser and 
>>> then go
>>> to some URL, all you need to do is:
>>>
>>> on mouseUp
>>> revGoURL "http://www.yourURL.com"
>>> end mouseUp
>>>
>>> Does this help or am I completely not understanding what you are 
>>> trying to
>>> do?
>>>
>>> Judy
>>>
>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Old[ISO-8859-2] ?ich Peroutka wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Can anybody help me with the command ?revGoURL?? I?m the beginner 
>>>> with
>>>> REVOLUTION (Runrev 2.2 for Mac OS 9.2.2 cz) and I have this problem.
>>>>
>>>> My script is:
>>>>
>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>          ....
>>>>          ....
>>>> -- define myDefaultFolder and myDataFolder
>>>> put ?/Macintosh HD/Mac temp/myFolder?  into myDefaultFolder
>>>> put myDefaultFolder & ?/data/?  into myDataFolder
>>>> -- ?myDataFolder? is /Macintosh HD/Mac temp/myFolder/data/
>>>>         .....
>>>>         .....
>>>> set defaultFolder to myDataFolder
>>>> revGoURL myDataFolder & ?myFile.htm?
>>>>
>>>> or only
>>>>
>>>> revGoURL  ?myFile.htm?
>>>>
>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>
>>>> It is one and the same if I write the first or the second way. The
>>>> performance (path of file that Internet Explorer is looking for) is 
>>>> other
>>>> but the result is the same ? Error in opened ?Internet Explorer? 
>>>> that one
>>>> tells me ?the file doesn?t exist?.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The problem is, that all spaces in path (myDataFolder) are replaced 
>>>> with
>>>> ?%20?. My ?Internet Explorer? is started OK but it is searching file
>>>> with path ?/Macintosh%20HD/Mac%20temp/myFolder/data/myFile.htm?.
>>>> This path doesn? t exist of course. Why the spaces but only the 
>>>> spaces in
>>>> the path  of file are replaced with %20. ? %20? is the HEXcode of 
>>>> space.
>>>>
>>>> If I write:
>>>>
>>>> launch myDataFolder  & ?myFile.htm? with path2Explorer &  ?Internet
>>>> Explorer?
>>>> -- in path2Explorer is path to the programm ?Internet Explorer?.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All is OK. But by this way I have to know where my Internet 
>>>> Explorer on
>>>> HarDrive is (or alternative browser), path to him.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks all
>>>>
>>>> Oldrich
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



________________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer
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From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Mon Aug  2 16:35:39 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:35:39 +0100
Subject: First Use
In-Reply-To: <410E6AD9.2090004@fluffandsuch.com>
References: <410E5AF8.EB14F91E@Club-Internet.fr>
	<410E6AD9.2090004@fluffandsuch.com>
Message-ID: <84424217-E4C3-11D8-BD74-000A9569F8B0@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 2 Aug 2004, at 17:24, Nonsanity wrote:
>
> The other problem was the seeming lack of a way to set the scroll of a 
> text field from a script. Not knowing the current whereabouts of 
> Danny's old book, I'm going on memory but shouldn't there be a command 
> like:
>
> set the scroll of fld "Output" to 30000
>
> I often used this to scroll to the bottom of a long field that I was 
> continually adding to.
>

Others have mentioned the vScroll property, but "scroll" is a synonym 
for vScroll. To scroll to the bottom of a field, you can do this:

   set the scroll of field "output" to the formattedHeight of field 
"output"


Cheers
Dave


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 16:36:59 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:36:59 -0300
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
Message-ID: <B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I was hired to build a simple app here in brazil, I should take care of 
managing contacts and projects for a small company. As a common 
practice here in the country, they changed the project as the game was 
going and now the only thing it doesn't do is to babysit the CEO 
daughter, but okay, I could cope with the spec changes, it's just a 
huge db anway. Now the sky has fallen, they want their app to talk to 
the other franchise apps, meaning theres a company here at Rio de 
Janeiro, another at Sao Paulo and yet another at Porto Alegre, and they 
want to exchange data, they want the program to run everywhere and 
they've got lot's of firewalls since they are inside a university.

I was going like this, client app in Rev, MySQL running in a server, 
everyone access the server. This ain't working!!!! They can't open 
connections to the server running at my ISP, I can, I tested it in 
three machines on different networks.... they can't change their 
firewalls policies and they want to share data!!!!

I am now thinking in doing the other way, I make the server using my 
webserver stack and valentina, and they access it by the web, they can 
pass thru the firewall to do webrequests... but that's ugly I hate 
deploying apps using web interface. It's just simple DBs with 6 tables 
and couple joins... should be easy!!!!

I look forward to some advise for I must deliver this yesterday, and 
they just phoned to say that the other companies will use the program, 
that's why I am in a hurry... that's also the money that should take me 
to malta. And since they are publishing and marketing company they know 
nothing of IT they think that for them to use an app and for 
outside-of-lan-ambient people to use the same app is trivial.... 
hell!!!!! firewalls!!! fake IPs!!!!!!

anyone here got an advise or idea, I am begining again from the scratch 
so any advise is good.

andre

PS: and if I tell I need more time, they just dump me and use another 
contractant.... pretty cool ain't it.




-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug  2 16:46:44 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 16:46:44 -0400
Subject: Dreamcard beta testing
In-Reply-To: <20040802200656.E38379300A9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD342074.21C4%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

Thanks,

It is fun working with the new version.

Bill 

On 8/2/04 4:06 PM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hershel Fisch wrote:
>> As mentioned ( if I remember properly), it'll be fixed in the next Beta.
>> Hershel
>> On Monday, August 2, 2004, at 12:43 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
>> 
>>> Yes, Bill.  I posted this same problem a while back and others confirmed
>>> it.
> 
> Kevin noted here that the issue is not actually memory-related, but that
> the actual cause of the error can be found by looking at the second item
> in that window.  This will at least let you get back to work while
> waiting for B2.

        



From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Mon Aug  2 16:44:05 2004
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:44:05 -0400
Subject: MySQL: .rev main stack called from standalone rev app
In-Reply-To: <E8230ACD-E4BF-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <OF170078FB.77CD78D5-ON85256EE4.00717EB3-85256EE4.0071F512@sealedair.com>

Woohoo!  That did it!  I also added a "stop using..." in my "on close 
stack".  Is that recommended?

THANK YOU!!
-James






Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
08/02/04 04:09 PM
Please respond to How to use Revolution
 
        To:     How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: MySQL: .rev main stack called from standalone 
rev app


On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:11 PM, James.Cass at sealedair.com wrote:

> PLATFORM:       MacOSX (10.3.4)
> ISSUE:  MySQL commands not working
> DESCRIPTION:    We have a small, standalone "client" Rev app (MacOSX
> 10.3.4) that shows a splash screen and calls a separate .rev main
> stack,
> which is the main guts of the application.  The client app is on the
> user's Mac (>40 users), and the .rev main stack is on the server.  This
> way, when we make changes/updates to the application, everyone is
> running
> the latest version.  The main application uses MySQL commands.  The
> MySQL
> commands work fine in development mode, and if I build it as a
> standalone
> app.  However, the MySQL commands do not work when the .rev main stack
> (not a standalone) is called by the client app.  I have set my
> standalone
> settings for the client app to include the MySQL Database Support.

I imagine that the revdb external is being applied to to the stack
(splash) that is being used  to create the executable.  In your client
stack start using the stack that was used to create the exe.  So if
your splash stack was named "mySplash" then in your client stack do
something like this:

start using stack "mySplash"

This will make the revdb calls available in the message path.


--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 16:48:44 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:48:44 -0700
Subject: MySQL: .rev main stack called from standalone rev app
In-Reply-To: <OF170078FB.77CD78D5-ON85256EE4.00717EB3-85256EE4.0071F512@sealedair.com>
References: <OF170078FB.77CD78D5-ON85256EE4.00717EB3-85256EE4.0071F512@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <581FB2A8-E4C5-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 1:44 PM, James.Cass at sealedair.com wrote:

> Woohoo!  That did it!  I also added a "stop using..." in my "on close
> stack".  Is that recommended?
>
> THANK YOU!!
> -James

Glad to hear it.  I don't know that the stop using is required unless 
you wanted to do any cleanup in your stack library since the 
releaseStack message is sent to it.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 16:52:08 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:52:08 -0700
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D185DA23-E4C5-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 1:36 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
> I am now thinking in doing the other way, I make the server using my 
> webserver stack and valentina, and they access it by the web, they can 
> pass thru the firewall to do webrequests... but that's ugly I hate 
> deploying apps using web interface. It's just simple DBs with 6 tables 
> and couple joins... should be easy!!!!
>
> I look forward to some advise for I must deliver this yesterday, and 
> they just phoned to say that the other companies will use the program, 
> that's why I am in a hurry... that's also the money that should take 
> me to malta. And since they are publishing and marketing company they 
> know nothing of IT they think that for them to use an app and for 
> outside-of-lan-ambient people to use the same app is trivial.... 
> hell!!!!! firewalls!!! fake IPs!!!!!!
>
> anyone here got an advise or idea, I am begining again from the 
> scratch so any advise is good.

Here is how I think I would approach it -

Client

Rev application which makes requests over port 80 to a PHP/Perl/Rev CGI 
which talks to the central  DB (MySQL, Valentina, etc.).  The data is 
returned in a predetermined format.  Your app parses returned data and 
populates the interface as needed.  You don't have to redo your 
interface, just the how the data is obtained.

Server

PHP/Perl/Rev, etc

This will do all the talking to the db.  A request might look something 
like this:

http://mycoolserver.com/mycoolapp.php?GetFunnyRecords

GetFunnyRecords would run a predefined query and output the data to the 
client.  The data could be like a slimmed down xml -

<status="OK">
<error="">
<records>
	<record>
		<name>bob</name>
		<id>12</id>
	</record>
</records>

or just return one url encoded record per line (with status and error 
message being lines one and two) depending on your data.

Would this work for you?


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  2 16:54:28 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:54:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: please  use the Subject field
In-Reply-To: <A5C8AEDB-E43F-11D8-A5EF-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20040802205428.17586.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com>

please  use the Subject field

thank you,

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
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Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 16:57:54 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:57:54 -0300
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <D185DA23-E4C5-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<D185DA23-E4C5-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <A00C9C8E-E4C6-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>


Trevor,

thanks to your quick response. I was thinking about it... I was trying 
to make one app, not two, but I think that's the way to go, the time 
I'll take to create a HTML interface is bigger thant the one I'll use 
to modify the current rev interface, now let's build a server... 
(heck!)

Andre


On Aug 2, 2004, at 5:52 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> On Aug 2, 2004, at 1:36 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>>
>> I am now thinking in doing the other way, I make the server using my 
>> webserver stack and valentina, and they access it by the web, they 
>> can pass thru the firewall to do webrequests... but that's ugly I 
>> hate deploying apps using web interface. It's just simple DBs with 6 
>> tables and couple joins... should be easy!!!!
>>
>> I look forward to some advise for I must deliver this yesterday, and 
>> they just phoned to say that the other companies will use the 
>> program, that's why I am in a hurry... that's also the money that 
>> should take me to malta. And since they are publishing and marketing 
>> company they know nothing of IT they think that for them to use an 
>> app and for outside-of-lan-ambient people to use the same app is 
>> trivial.... hell!!!!! firewalls!!! fake IPs!!!!!!
>>
>> anyone here got an advise or idea, I am begining again from the 
>> scratch so any advise is good.
>
> Here is how I think I would approach it -
>
> Client
>
> Rev application which makes requests over port 80 to a PHP/Perl/Rev 
> CGI which talks to the central  DB (MySQL, Valentina, etc.).  The data 
> is returned in a predetermined format.  Your app parses returned data 
> and populates the interface as needed.  You don't have to redo your 
> interface, just the how the data is obtained.
>
> Server
>
> PHP/Perl/Rev, etc
>
> This will do all the talking to the db.  A request might look 
> something like this:
>
> http://mycoolserver.com/mycoolapp.php?GetFunnyRecords
>
> GetFunnyRecords would run a predefined query and output the data to 
> the client.  The data could be like a slimmed down xml -
>
> <status="OK">
> <error="">
> <records>
> 	<record>
> 		<name>bob</name>
> 		<id>12</id>
> 	</record>
> </records>
>
> or just return one url encoded record per line (with status and error 
> message being lines one and two) depending on your data.
>
> Would this work for you?
>
>
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Aug  2 17:13:52 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:13:52 +0200
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELNGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

why use another client-side-opened port for the server?

I cant even access my mysql server with runrev!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Andre
> Garzia
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 22:37
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I was hired to build a simple app here in brazil, I should take care of
> managing contacts and projects for a small company. As a common
> practice here in the country, they changed the project as the game was
> going and now the only thing it doesn't do is to babysit the CEO
> daughter, but okay, I could cope with the spec changes, it's just a
> huge db anway. Now the sky has fallen, they want their app to talk to
> the other franchise apps, meaning theres a company here at Rio de
> Janeiro, another at Sao Paulo and yet another at Porto Alegre, and they
> want to exchange data, they want the program to run everywhere and
> they've got lot's of firewalls since they are inside a university.
>
> I was going like this, client app in Rev, MySQL running in a server,
> everyone access the server. This ain't working!!!! They can't open
> connections to the server running at my ISP, I can, I tested it in
> three machines on different networks.... they can't change their
> firewalls policies and they want to share data!!!!
>
> I am now thinking in doing the other way, I make the server using my
> webserver stack and valentina, and they access it by the web, they can
> pass thru the firewall to do webrequests... but that's ugly I hate
> deploying apps using web interface. It's just simple DBs with 6 tables
> and couple joins... should be easy!!!!
>
> I look forward to some advise for I must deliver this yesterday, and
> they just phoned to say that the other companies will use the program,
> that's why I am in a hurry... that's also the money that should take me
> to malta. And since they are publishing and marketing company they know
> nothing of IT they think that for them to use an app and for
> outside-of-lan-ambient people to use the same app is trivial....
> hell!!!!! firewalls!!! fake IPs!!!!!!
>
> anyone here got an advise or idea, I am begining again from the scratch
> so any advise is good.
>
> andre
>
> PS: and if I tell I need more time, they just dump me and use another
> contractant.... pretty cool ain't it.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  2 16:59:45 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:59:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Animation library - libRMC
In-Reply-To: <BD33BC66.2402%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <20040802205945.76892.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Malte Brill <malte.brill at t-online.de> wrote:

> http://www.derbrill.de/librmc/libRMC.rev.zip

do you move multiple objects simultaneously?

Thank you,

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


	
		
__________________________________
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New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
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From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  2 17:01:02 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:01:02 -0700
Subject: home
Message-ID: <714739834.20040802140102@ahsoftware.net>

All-

I'm quite amused by the "See Also" recommendations for the "home"
keyword. In particular, the connection to the "two constant" is a bit
mind-boggling, with "seconds function" running a close... er...
second.

-- 
-Mark
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 17:04:45 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:04:45 -0300
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELNGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELNGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <94DA6400-E4C7-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 6:13 PM, MisterX wrote:

> why use another client-side-opened port for the server?

sorry, i  didn't understand....

>
> I cant even access my mysql server with runrev!

I can too, they can't.... don't know why, it's the same app and the 
server is on jaguarpc.net.... and % is on the host access list...

>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Mon Aug  2 17:08:09 2004
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:08:09 -0700
Subject: How to see if player is "done"?
Message-ID: <410EAD39.2010403@comcast.net>

Hi List -

Some context:

When using VIDEOCLIPS (embedded movies), we have two language features 
available that help us detect whether a clip is still playing:
   - the "movie" function
   - the "playStopped" message

When using PLAYERS to play movies (referenced files), we apparently have 
only one such feature available:
   - the "playStopped" message


My questions:

1) Is "playStopped" truly the only non-workaround way you can detect the 
current 'play' status of a player?

2) If so, what is your most reliable workaround way of detecting this?


Thanks -
Phil Davis

From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  2 17:12:29 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:12:29 -0400
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELNGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELNGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <A9909784-E4C8-11D8-B4BC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 5:13 PM, MisterX wrote:

> why use another client-side-opened port for the server?
>
> I cant even access my mysql server with runrev!

Just to be clear, the mySQL connection works. If you can't access it, 
there is some other problem.

Sounds like Andre doesn't have a problem with it from his end, but the 
client's firewall does. I'd look at using port 80... almost all 
firewalls have to allow that. Just means you need either Rev CGI or PHP 
to act as an intermediary.

Come on Andre - if anybody can make that work, YOU can!   ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  2 17:14:16 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:14:16 -0700
Subject: hasMemory
Message-ID: <3215533876.20040802141416@ahsoftware.net>

All-

Does anyone have any clues about the "hasMemory" function? In the
documentation I see:

Comments:
This function is only partially implemented, and may not return useful
values on some platforms. It is included in Transcript for
compatibility with imported SuperCard projects.

That alone would keep me from using it, but I'm curious about what
"partially implemented" means.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Mon Aug  2 17:21:54 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 23:21:54 +0200
Subject: rawkeydown & rawkeyup (was : 2 more questions aboutoperationson  
 text in fields)
References: <410E62C1.90F3C959@Club-Internet.fr>
	<410E8001.7060300@hyperactivesw.com>
	<410E9B86.9080908@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <410EB071.121546D6@Club-Internet.fr>



"J. Landman Gay" a *crit :

> On 8/2/04 1:56 PM, jbv wrote:
>
>  > BTW rawkeydown and rawkeyup both work, but then, how do you
>  > map the raw keynumber with the corresponding char ?
>  > the numtochar can't be used in this situation...
>
> Good question. I usually only use it when I need to trap specific keys,
> and I build a switch statement around those. If you need to trap every
> key then you may be better off with your other solution. What is the
> goal for this handler?
>

Well, it would be a bit too long to explain...
I guess an example is better (please note that I finally used
a third option - it is not fully implemented yet, but it'll give
you an idea).

Create a new stack with 1 field on it.

Put the following script in the card :

-----

on openCard
  global theString1, theString2, myList
  put "" into theString1
  put "" into theString2
  put "Google,Yahoo,Bravo,Alta Vista" into mylist

  set textfont of fld 1 to "Arial"
  set textstyle of fld 1 to bold

end openCard

on recherche a
  global theString1, theString2, myList
  put number of chars of theString2 into n

  put 0 into c
  repeat with j=1 to (number of items of myList)
    get item j of myList
    if char 1 to n of it = theString2 then
      put j into c
      exit repeat
    end if
  end repeat

  if c=0 then
    put theString2 into fld 1
    set the textcolor of line 1 of fld 1 to "black"
    select after char n of fld 1
  else

    put item j of myList into fld 1
    set the textcolor of line 1 of fld 1 to "100,100,100"
    set the textcolor of char 1 to n of line 1 of fld 1 to "black"
    select after char n of fld 1

  end if
end recherche




----------------------

put the following script in the field :

-------

on rawkeyup which
  global theString1, theString2

  put (number of chars of fld 1)

  if (number of chars of fld 1)=1 then
    set textcolor of line 1 of fld 1 to "black"
  end if

  put fld 1 into theString1

  if theString1 is not "" then
    put "" into theString2
    repeat with i=1 to (number of chars of theString1)
      if the textcolor of char i of fld 1 is "0,0,0" then
        put char i of theString1 after theString2
      else
        exit repeat
      end if
    end repeat

    if theString2 is not "" then
      recherche theString2
    else
      put "" into me
    end if
  end if
end rawkeyup

on returninField
  global theString1, theString2
  put fld 1 into theString1
  put "" into me
end returninField

-----------

Now, click inside the field, and type the letter "G" or "Y"...


JB


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 17:17:40 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:17:40 -0700
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <A00C9C8E-E4C6-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<D185DA23-E4C5-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<A00C9C8E-E4C6-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <62D90786-E4C9-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 1:57 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
> thanks to your quick response. I was thinking about it... I was trying 
> to make one app, not two, but I think that's the way to go, the time 
> I'll take to create a HTML interface is bigger thant the one I'll use 
> to modify the current rev interface, now let's build a server... 
> (heck!)

If you've already written the interface in Rev and depending on how 
separate your data fetching code is from your interface code then it 
should be a breeze.  I like to have data fetching functions which 
return arrays that I build the interface from so if I ever do need to 
change my data source I don't have to modify anything but the data 
acquisition library.

Creating a good application interface using HTML will depress you.  If 
you want to do it right you will have all sorts of browser 
compatibility issues to deal with and it is difficult to mimic basic 
functionality available in a desktop app.  Writing an DB interface on 
the server shouldn't take too long.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Mon Aug  2 17:19:31 2004
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:19:31 -0700
Subject: "playStarted" message - bad docs or unsupported feature?
Message-ID: <410EAFE3.6090601@comcast.net>

Can someone please clarify this for everyone (including me):

When a player starts, Rev sends a "playStarted" message. However, there 
is no "playStarted" entry in the docs. How come?

Is this because:
1) the message was overlooked when docs were created, or
2) "playStarted" is an unsupported message?

Thanks -
Phil Davis

From briany at qldlearning.com  Mon Aug  2 17:20:04 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:20:04 -0400
Subject: hasMemory
In-Reply-To: <3215533876.20040802141416@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <B894896E-E4C9-11D8-AE9B-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

The little I know is that in Supercard, it would return to you whether 
or not a given number of bytes could be allocated. IIRC (and I might 
not!) people tended to use it in order to detect a low-memory 
situation, i.e. if hasMemory(1024*1024) failed then there was less than 
1MB of memory to be had and that might be trouble.

Since Supercard is Mac-only, and the function was first written for OS 
9 where each application has a fixed memory allocation, it was probably 
well-defined if still a bit unusual. I'm guessing the Rev "half 
implementation" gets stuck on the meaning of the whole thing on other 
OS'es  with swap files and shared memory and all of that good stuff.

Conclusion- I would stay way unless you want something specific on 
MacOS and can verify that it works.

FWIW...

> All-
>
> Does anyone have any clues about the "hasMemory" function? In the
> documentation I see:
>
> Comments:
> This function is only partially implemented, and may not return useful
> values on some platforms. It is included in Transcript for
> compatibility with imported SuperCard projects.
>
> That alone would keep me from using it, but I'm curious about what
> "partially implemented" means.
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 17:20:59 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:20:59 -0700
Subject: How to see if player is "done"?
In-Reply-To: <410EAD39.2010403@comcast.net>
References: <410EAD39.2010403@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <D92F456E-E4C9-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 2:08 PM, Phil Davis wrote:
>
> 1) Is "playStopped" truly the only non-workaround way you can detect 
> the current 'play' status of a player?
>
> 2) If so, what is your most reliable workaround way of detecting this?

If you are using QT then the EnhancedQT external can tell you if a 
movie is playing or not.

qtGetMovieControllerInfo moviePlayerID of player 1, "IsPlaying"

<http://mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/enhancedqt.html>

Otherwise I think you need to check the currentTime of the movie then 
send a message in ?? milliseconds and see if the currentTime is the 
same or not.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Aug  2 17:21:12 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:21:12 -0700
Subject: How to see if player is "done"?
In-Reply-To: <410EAD39.2010403@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BD33FE58.CC47%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Phil Davis"  wrote:

> Is "playStopped" truly the only non-workaround way you can detect the
> current 'play' status of a player?

You can also test the paused of a player...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 17:21:33 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:21:33 -0300
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <A9909784-E4C8-11D8-B4BC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELNGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
	<A9909784-E4C8-11D8-B4BC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <ED8CFA75-E4C9-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 6:12 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> Just to be clear, the mySQL connection works. If you can't access it, 
> there is some other problem.
>
> Sounds like Andre doesn't have a problem with it from his end, but the 
> client's firewall does. I'd look at using port 80... almost all 
> firewalls have to allow that. Just means you need either Rev CGI or 
> PHP to act as an intermediary.
>
> Come on Andre - if anybody can make that work, YOU can!   ;-)
>

Thanks Troy,

the problem is, I can't changing the port of the MySQL server, it's 
running on my Web Hosting company, and I bet they use the same server 
for everyone...
irgh!!!!!

I am already making a server with LibCGI and a client with Rev


Andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From pkc at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 17:22:38 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:22:38 -0400
Subject: Corruption from Images
In-Reply-To: <20040802200656.E38379300A9@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040802200656.E38379300A9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0611040abd345fa28639@[192.168.2.8]>

Hi Richard, thanks for that terrific essay. In principle I understand 
what you mean. How can a person tell if an "image object" is actually 
corrupting the stack?  I never got any corruption messages from 
Revolution, and never even thought of corruption until Ken found it. 
Revolution happily ran the stack in the IDE, built both the OS X and 
Windows apps without comment, and the OS X application runs fine. 
The only hint of trouble came when the Windows app had reached it 
destination and couldn't be opened. I wonder if there is any way to 
get a hint of impending trouble during the compilation or during the 
build?

  It would indeed have been easier to just remove the objects, but it 
didn't kill me to rewrite the stack either.  Whatever those wacky 
image objects were didn't get included.

I'm going to follow up the reading you supplied.

From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 17:24:31 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:24:31 -0300
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <62D90786-E4C9-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<D185DA23-E4C5-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<A00C9C8E-E4C6-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<62D90786-E4C9-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <57AF349C-E4CA-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 6:17 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> If you've already written the interface in Rev and depending on how 
> separate your data fetching code is from your interface code then it 
> should be a breeze.  I like to have data fetching functions which 
> return arrays that I build the interface from so if I ever do need to 
> change my data source I don't have to modify anything but the data 
> acquisition library.
>

yes, it's pretty easy to change, almost everything was built by 
Database Query Builder, just dump the query and write your own.


> Creating a good application interface using HTML will depress you.  If 
> you want to do it right you will have all sorts of browser 
> compatibility issues to deal with and it is difficult to mimic basic 
> functionality available in a desktop app.  Writing an DB interface on 
> the server shouldn't take too long.
>
>

I already begun to write a DB interface using LibCGI as my backend... 
but I think my engine is missing the database library for I received 
this error:
  Object: stack "libCGI"
Line: 1
Statement: -- --
Description: Function: error in source expression
Value: revOpenDatabase

Is there any trick to use MySQL with CGI using linux mc engine?

andre



>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 17:31:53 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:31:53 -0700
Subject: How to see if player is "done"?
In-Reply-To: <BD33FE58.CC47%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BD33FE58.CC47%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <5F3EB78E-E4CB-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 2:21 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, "Phil Davis"  wrote:
>
>> Is "playStopped" truly the only non-workaround way you can detect the
>> current 'play' status of a player?
>
> You can also test the paused of a player...

You know, I looked for a way of doing this a while ago and never found 
it.  I remember thinking it was pretty silly that it wasn't available 
and that is why I put it in the EnhancedQT external.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 17:36:10 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:36:10 -0300
Subject: How to add Database Library to CGI engine?
Message-ID: <F829D524-E4CB-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

Uh... my MC engine for Linux is failing on revOpenDatabase, I assume 
this is due to a lack of the library itself for the error is like 
handler unknown... is there any trick to add DB support to a CGI? 
Man... I should know better...

andre
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Aug  2 17:38:47 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:38:47 -0700
Subject: How to see if player is "done"?
In-Reply-To: <5F3EB78E-E4CB-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <BD340277.CC54%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Trevor DeVore"  wrote:

>>> Is "playStopped" truly the only non-workaround way you can detect the
>>> current 'play' status of a player?
>> 
>> You can also test the paused of a player...
> 
> You know, I looked for a way of doing this a while ago and never found
> it.  I remember thinking it was pretty silly that it wasn't available
> and that is why I put it in the EnhancedQT external.

Dude -- you should have asked. :-)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 17:45:37 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:45:37 -0700
Subject: How to see if player is "done"?
In-Reply-To: <BD340277.CC54%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BD340277.CC54%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <4A8EF59E-E4CD-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 2:38 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>>
>> You know, I looked for a way of doing this a while ago and never found
>> it.  I remember thinking it was pretty silly that it wasn't available
>> and that is why I put it in the EnhancedQT external.
>
> Dude -- you should have asked. :-)

That would have been too easy.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug  2 17:49:07 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:49:07 -1000
Subject: File Format Will Change
Message-ID: <C7B6440C-E4CD-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

We note in the What's New for 2.5 beta1

"The format of stack files has not changed between version 2.2 and 2.5 
Beta 1. This means
that you can open and use version 2.5 stack files in version 2.2, 
although features that
are new for 2.5 will not work in earlier versions.  Note that the file 
format will change
later during the beta cycle for 2.5."

I presume this means that

a) any standalone apps made with 2.2.1 that are meant to download and 
run other stacks from the web will not be able to run such stacks made 
by 2.5 after the file format change is implemented.

b) all such standalone apps would then need to be upgraded.

Anyone know what "later during the beta cycle for 2.5" means in terms 
of real time? One would presume "shortly... in a month or so, this 
quarter for sure."

If anyone can just confirm the above. that would help.



Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  2 17:51:11 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:51:11 -0700
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <A00C9C8E-E4C6-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
 <D185DA23-E4C5-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
 <A00C9C8E-E4C6-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <10317748651.20040802145111@ahsoftware.net>

Andre-

I'd have to agree with Trevor here that a multi-tiered approach is the
way to go. I think you'll have an easier time of it than trying to
stuff everything into a giant rev app (not to mention an easier time
doing maintenance in the long run).

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 17:56:41 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:56:41 -0700
Subject: hasMemory
In-Reply-To: <3215533876.20040802141416@ahsoftware.net>
References: <3215533876.20040802141416@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <410EB899.2020907@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

> All-
> 
> Does anyone have any clues about the "hasMemory" function? In the
> documentation I see:
> 
> Comments:
> This function is only partially implemented, and may not return useful
> values on some platforms. It is included in Transcript for
> compatibility with imported SuperCard projects.
> 
> That alone would keep me from using it, but I'm curious about what
> "partially implemented" means.

The MC docs refer to the hasMemory function as "implemented for 
SuperCard compatibility".  In my experience, "implemented for 
compatibility" means "implemented in such a way that it won't throw 
script errors even if it does nothing at all like what you expected."

In even blunter terms, "for compatibility" sometimes means the engine 
may lie to you by not throwing a script error when an expected behavior 
is not at all present.

For example, in SuperCard you can say "set the tool of window myWindow 
to pointer", and only the specified window has the pointer mode while 
all others remain governed by the more global "choose" command.

But in Transcript, "set the tool" is synonymous with "choose", so that 
all toplevel windows will have the same mode.  AFAIK it isn't currently 
possible to have multiple toplevel windows with different modes (though 
an even more flexible option is proposed in 
<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=623>).

So if you're porting from SC and "set the tool" doesn't throw a script 
error, you may miss learning the essential fact that what your script is 
attempting, and being allowed to run, really isn't doing what you want.

How this comes down with the hasMemory function I couldn't tell you. 
But I can say that once you walk away from OS 9 I doubt you'll have 
memory issues.  Win32 has a pretty efficient virtual memory system, and 
of course the VM in UNIX, including OS X, is stellar.  I've never had a 
low-memory condition in any OS other than Win95 (back when the machines 
shipped with barely enough to run the OS) and Mac OS 9.

My rule of thumb is to avoid tokens implemented "for compatibility". 
The old MC docs didn't even include any that weren't fully implemented, 
tucking them away into a note on compatibility with other tools.

My clients and I have gone one step further:  we don't even build for OS 
9 anymore until someone requests it.  I know that's not an option in 
some markets, but thus far in our web publishing, medical, and 
qualitative analysis markets I haven't had a request for Classic yet.  I 
know that roughly half of Mac users are still running OS 9, but the 
number is tilting rapidly and most of those customers aren't the ones 
buying software.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From kee at kagi.com  Mon Aug  2 17:56:47 2004
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:56:47 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <C68A5884-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BD33FEF8.299B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<888B64C4-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<C68A5884-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <D9F2B1EF-E4CE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>

>>> Windows, I don't know, but on OS X maybe you might be able to get 
>>> something
>>> from System Profiler?
>>
>> This looks promising.  Now, is there a command line tool that gives 
>> this info in OS X...
>
> /usr/sbin/system_profiler

The goal of the OS is to make all drives appear exactly the same, as 
drives that are either writeable or not and otherwise, the apps running 
under that OS should not notice any differences between them.

What you are asking for is counter to what the OS is trying to do. 
Obviously the data is available. You'll note that Apple writes the 
system profiler and I'd guess that they probably have to modify it on a 
frequent basis to allow it to use undocumented calls to bypass what the 
OS is doing and provide you with the data that you desire when you are 
using system profiler. My guess is that someone else could write a 
similar piece of software but that they too would be constantly 
revising the various profiles in their software each time new hardware 
is released.

If I were you, I'd ask a question that every OS wants to answer rather 
than trying to ask a question about a detail that every OS tries to 
hide.

So lets step back. Why are you asking these questions? Perhaps you 
should instead, allow the user to select the drive they want? Perhaps 
you can do some educated guessing based upon read write times of a 
standard size file and based upon the relative size of various drives 
available to the system? Why do you care what kind of drive? If you are 
making assumptions about what you can do with a drive based upon what 
type it is, perhaps you should not do that because chances are good 
that your assumptions will be wrong for some percentage of your users. 
If you need to mark a drive, perhaps you let the user mark it by 
storing a file on it and instead of doing something with the USB flash 
drive, you do something with the drive that has the marker file?

On my system (a laptop) I have quite a few drives. The internal hard 
drive 37GB. A disk image that mounts onto the desktop that is actually 
stored on the laptop drive 500Mb. Two external firewire drives 15GB and 
190GB. One USB flash drive 32MB and a disk image on it that is 5MB in 
size, and a USB digital camera 256MB. One DVD read/write 4GB which can 
also be a CD R/W. And then at various times a disk image that mirrors a 
remote FTP site.

Now if I was running your software, I don't think I'd want you to make 
any assumptions about the various drives on my system. I'd want to 
specify which drives you write or store onto and which drives you run 
from. For example, the 190GB is a backup and I don't want you to do 
anything to that drive even though it appears to be the main drive if 
you base that decision upon access speed and size.

Not knowing anything about what you are attempting to do, I urge you to 
consider alternate ways of accomplishing what you are attempting to 
accomplish that are in sync with what all OSes are trying to do. Trying 
to go against the OS is never a long term solution.

Just my two cents and worth every penny you paid for it.

kee nethery


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 18:08:00 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:08:00 -0300
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <10317748651.20040802145111@ahsoftware.net>
References: <B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<D185DA23-E4C5-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<A00C9C8E-E4C6-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<10317748651.20040802145111@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <6AD42016-E4D0-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 6:51 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Andre-
>
> I'd have to agree with Trevor here that a multi-tiered approach is the
> way to go. I think you'll have an easier time of it than trying to
> stuff everything into a giant rev app (not to mention an easier time
> doing maintenance in the long run).
>

Mark,

Thanks! Already on that path! I just need to know how to make that 
database library work in the mc engine... it's not there...

Andre


> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 18:21:08 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:21:08 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <D9F2B1EF-E4CE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
References: <BD33FEF8.299B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<888B64C4-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<C68A5884-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<D9F2B1EF-E4CE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <40949F32-E4D2-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 2:56 PM, kee nethery wrote:
>
> The goal of the OS is to make all drives appear exactly the same, as 
> drives that are either writeable or not and otherwise, the apps 
> running under that OS should not notice any differences between them.
>
> What you are asking for is counter to what the OS is trying to do. 
> Obviously the data is available. You'll note that Apple writes the 
> system profiler and I'd guess that they probably have to modify it on 
> a frequent basis to allow it to use undocumented calls to bypass what 
> the OS is doing and provide you with the data that you desire when you 
> are using system profiler. My guess is that someone else could write a 
> similar piece of software but that they too would be constantly 
> revising the various profiles in their software each time new hardware 
> is released.
>
> If I were you, I'd ask a question that every OS wants to answer rather 
> than trying to ask a question about a detail that every OS tries to 
> hide.
>
> So lets step back. Why are you asking these questions? Perhaps you 
> should instead, allow the user to select the drive they want? Perhaps 
> you can do some educated guessing based upon read write times of a 
> standard size file and based upon the relative size of various drives 
> available to the system? Why do you care what kind of drive? If you 
> are making assumptions about what you can do with a drive based upon 
> what type it is, perhaps you should not do that because chances are 
> good that your assumptions will be wrong for some percentage of your 
> users. If you need to mark a drive, perhaps you let the user mark it 
> by storing a file on it and instead of doing something with the USB 
> flash drive, you do something with the drive that has the marker file?
>
> On my system (a laptop) I have quite a few drives. The internal hard 
> drive 37GB. A disk image that mounts onto the desktop that is actually 
> stored on the laptop drive 500Mb. Two external firewire drives 15GB 
> and 190GB. One USB flash drive 32MB and a disk image on it that is 5MB 
> in size, and a USB digital camera 256MB. One DVD read/write 4GB which 
> can also be a CD R/W. And then at various times a disk image that 
> mirrors a remote FTP site.
>
> Now if I was running your software, I don't think I'd want you to make 
> any assumptions about the various drives on my system. I'd want to 
> specify which drives you write or store onto and which drives you run 
> from. For example, the 190GB is a backup and I don't want you to do 
> anything to that drive even though it appears to be the main drive if 
> you base that decision upon access speed and size.
>
> Not knowing anything about what you are attempting to do, I urge you 
> to consider alternate ways of accomplishing what you are attempting to 
> accomplish that are in sync with what all OSes are trying to do. 
> Trying to go against the OS is never a long term solution.

Thanks for the detailed response.  My reasons for knowing whether the 
drive my app is running off of is USB or some other format is that I am 
looking at different options for some light, non-intrusive, inexpensive 
copy protection for some training materials.  We may be deploying the 
materials on USB drives for some other reasons and if we do we want to 
limit ways in which the app could be copied to a hard disk or burned to 
a CD-ROM.  Right now I'm just looking for what information I will have 
available so I can see what options I have.

Thanks,

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 18:24:09 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:24:09 -0300
Subject: since I am in Hell, let's all have fun... we might end with a case
	study.
Message-ID: <ACABDCEB-E4D2-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

If you've been tracking my emails latelly I am in hell. I was hired by 
an enterprize to create and app. I should deliver the first testing 
version tomorrow but they changed the spec at the last minute and now 
the app must work across firewalls and protected lans with fake 
unreachable ips. I am now rebuilding the whole thing from the scratch. 
Building a server side app that will interface with MySQL on the server 
and a Client app that will be nice and pretty (that's half done).

Since I feel masoquist and in need of some promotion (I am out of local 
TV for months now) I just created a Blog to record my steps building 
this app in the next 24hours. This way you all can share my pain and 
madness and laught as I go against the clock. I'll make this beta till 
9 AM tomorrow! I can post to blogs from inside the Rev IDE so I loose 
no time doing this and we can say we did the first Geek Code Reality 
WebShow. Also there are comment spots on the page so I hope people help 
me....

We Brazilians think that just because you're in Hell it's no motive to 
spoil good fun or spectacle. If everything works out good, we should 
end with a nice diary and case study, how many languages you know makes 
easy to build client/server apps in 24h?

PS: This will be a beta and they know it, it's suppose to be in working 
final order in two weeks, but must be demoed to three branches across 
the net tomorrow...

the url for the blog is http://www.wecode.org/24hRush have fun!
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Aug  2 18:46:38 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 23:46:38 +0100
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <6AD42016-E4D0-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <10317748651.20040802145111@ahsoftware.net>
 <B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
 <D185DA23-E4C5-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
 <A00C9C8E-E4C6-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
 <10317748651.20040802145111@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040802234154.025426b0@mail.tweedly.net>

At 19:08 02/08/2004 -0300, Andre Garzia wrote:

>Mark,
>
>Thanks! Already on that path! I just need to know how to make that 
>database library work in the mc engine... it's not there...

It kinda hurts to even suggest this, but .....

if you're using HTTP to send the query / get the response
and
if the server side is a simple CGI that receives an encoded version of the 
SQL query
and
responds with the data returned from mySQL
then
I'd be tempted to use PHP/mySQL on the server (at least for Beta)


-- Alex.

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 18:38:21 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 15:38:21 -0700
Subject: Corruption from Images
In-Reply-To: <p0611040abd345fa28639@[192.168.2.8]>
References: <20040802200656.E38379300A9@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0611040abd345fa28639@[192.168.2.8]>
Message-ID: <410EC25D.4000609@fourthworld.com>

pkc wrote:

> Hi Richard, thanks for that terrific essay. In principle I understand 
> what you mean. How can a person tell if an "image object" is actually 
> corrupting the stack?  I never got any corruption messages from 
> Revolution, and never even thought of corruption until Ken found it. 
> Revolution happily ran the stack in the IDE, built both the OS X and 
> Windows apps without comment, and the OS X application runs fine. The 
> only hint of trouble came when the Windows app had reached it 
> destination and couldn't be opened. I wonder if there is any way to get 
> a hint of impending trouble during the compilation or during the build?

Did you run the stackfile in the Win IDE?  When a standalone exhibits 
problems not evident in the Mac IDE, that's sometimes useful.

As for honing in on a corrupted object, first thing is to forget about 
corruption until the engine tells you a stack is corrupted.  ;)  Only 
after you run it in the IDE and it reports that it's corrupted is it 
worth going down that tedious road; in most other cases it's just a red 
herring that'll eat your time but not help you identify the actual cause 
of an issue.

But if the engine says a stack is corrupted, first check in the 
directory where the stack is located for a "`" copy (i.e., if your stack 
file is named "MyStack.rev" you'll likely see a stack named 
"~MyStack.rev").  This is a backup, which the engine makes automatically 
when you execute a save command. In 99% of cases where a stack is opened 
and the IDE reports that it's corrupted you'll find the automatic backup 
waiting for you, so you just toss the bad copy, remove the "~", and 
you're back in business with everything up to your last successful save.

In the very rare case where the engine will report that a file is 
corrupted and no "~" backup is available, the trick to finding the 
object giving you the trouble is like any other good problem solving: 
bisect the range of possibilities until you find it.

This assumes, of course, that you're able to open the file on at least 
one system. But if you can I would do this:

- Make a copy of the file.
- Delete half of the substacks.
- Try to open the file on the platform where the trouble
   was last reported.

If no error is reported then you know the offending object was in one of 
the deleted substacks.  If an error is reported then you know it's in 
one of the remaining substacks.

So then make another copy of the original file and try it again:  delete 
half of the suspect substacks.  Repeat this until you get down to the 
one containing the object which is causing the error.

Once you find the troublesome stack, the first thing I do is try 
deleting all of the image objects there.  If there is no problem then I 
can rule out image objects and focus on others.  If the problem goes 
away without the image objects then I've verified my hunch, and can go 
back to a fresh copy and delete just half of the image objects, and so 
on, until I get the one causing the issue.

Once the offending object is found -- and this is the most important 
step -- send the stack file to support at runrev.com with a report letting 
them know what you've found and what they'll need to do to see the 
error.  If you have the original image file that can also be very 
helpful, as the problem may be with something related to importing it or 
something in the image data itself, and having the original source image 
file will help them make that determination.

Fortunately this sort of thing is very, very rare.  If your experience 
is like mine you'll go another seven years without ever seeing another 
corrupted object. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 18:40:36 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 15:40:36 -0700
Subject: File Format Will Change
In-Reply-To: <C7B6440C-E4CD-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <C7B6440C-E4CD-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <410EC2E4.8060307@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> We note in the What's New for 2.5 beta1
> 
> "The format of stack files has not changed between version 2.2 and 2.5 
> Beta 1. This means
> that you can open and use version 2.5 stack files in version 2.2, 
> although features that
> are new for 2.5 will not work in earlier versions.  Note that the file 
> format will change
> later during the beta cycle for 2.5."
> 
> I presume this means that
> 
> a) any standalone apps made with 2.2.1 that are meant to download and 
> run other stacks from the web will not be able to run such stacks made 
> by 2.5 after the file format change is implemented.
> 
> b) all such standalone apps would then need to be upgraded.
> 
> Anyone know what "later during the beta cycle for 2.5" means in terms of 
> real time? One would presume "shortly... in a month or so, this quarter 
> for sure."
> 
> If anyone can just confirm the above. that would help.

Following my premature alarmist note on the subject here, Kevin politely 
reminded us that he'll definitely call out in big bold type which beta 
build will change the format once it's available.

His inclusion of the note about the file format change in b1 was just a 
"heads up", much appreciated by those of us who depend on this thing for 
our daily bread.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  2 18:41:49 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:41:49 -0300
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040802234154.025426b0@mail.tweedly.net>
References: <10317748651.20040802145111@ahsoftware.net>
	<B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<D185DA23-E4C5-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<A00C9C8E-E4C6-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<10317748651.20040802145111@ahsoftware.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040802234154.025426b0@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <2409E22C-E4D5-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 7:46 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> It kinda hurts to even suggest this, but .....
>
> if you're using HTTP to send the query / get the response
> and
> if the server side is a simple CGI that receives an encoded version of 
> the SQL query
> and
> responds with the data returned from mySQL
> then
> I'd be tempted to use PHP/mySQL on the server (at least for Beta)
>
>

Alex,

That's my first milestone! But there been time since I last programmed 
in PHP, actually more than three years, I don't trust my PHP skills 
anymore... I'll do exactly that but in Rev, then I'll try to refine the 
inteligence of the server, no point having a dumb server, clients are 
the ones made to be dumb...

Andre



> -- Alex.
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug  2 18:46:28 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 17:46:28 -0500
Subject: How to see if player is "done"?
In-Reply-To: <410EAD39.2010403@comcast.net>
References: <410EAD39.2010403@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <410EC444.3080306@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/2/04 4:08 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

> Hi List -
> 
> Some context:
> 
> When using VIDEOCLIPS (embedded movies), we have two language features 
> available that help us detect whether a clip is still playing:
>   - the "movie" function
>   - the "playStopped" message
> 
> When using PLAYERS to play movies (referenced files), we apparently have 
> only one such feature available:
>   - the "playStopped" message

You should be able to use all the messages, regardless of where the 
actual movie file is stored. The Player object acts the same regardless 
(or it is supposed to.) I have an app that loads QT movies from disk and 
it uses all the standard Player messages.


> My questions:
> 
> 1) Is "playStopped" truly the only non-workaround way you can detect the 
> current 'play' status of a player?

If you aren't getting this message, file a bug report. It got broken in 
the past, then it got fixed, then it got broken and fixed again, and now 
I'm not sure what its status is (but I thought it was okay now.)

If you just need to see if the movie is running or not, then check the 
paused property, as others suggested.

> 
> 2) If so, what is your most reliable workaround way of detecting this?

In addition to the other suggestions, another way is to set the 
callbacks of a movie. I've used these in the past, setting the callback 
time to the duration of the movie. In effect, it creates my own custom 
"playStopped" message.


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug  2 18:48:27 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 17:48:27 -0500
Subject: "playStarted" message - bad docs or unsupported feature?
In-Reply-To: <410EAFE3.6090601@comcast.net>
References: <410EAFE3.6090601@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <410EC4BB.5080700@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/2/04 4:19 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

> Can someone please clarify this for everyone (including me):
> 
> When a player starts, Rev sends a "playStarted" message. However, there 
> is no "playStarted" entry in the docs. How come?
> 
> Is this because:
> 1) the message was overlooked when docs were created, or
> 2) "playStarted" is an unsupported message?

The first, I think. It's a standard message, and it looks like an 
inadvertent omission in the docs.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  2 18:53:02 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:53:02 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <40949F32-E4D2-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BD33FEF8.299B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
 <888B64C4-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
 <C68A5884-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
 <D9F2B1EF-E4CE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
 <40949F32-E4D2-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <8221459066.20040802155302@ahsoftware.net>

Trevor-

Ah. So you only want to run if the app is running off the USB drive.
How about something simple:

if drive is removable (OS test) then
   write a text file to the drive
   if the write was successful then
      it's not a CDROM
   else
       somebody copied it to a CD
   end if
else
    it's been copied to a hard disk
end if

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 18:59:35 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:59:35 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <8221459066.20040802155302@ahsoftware.net>
References: <BD33FEF8.299B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<888B64C4-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<C68A5884-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<D9F2B1EF-E4CE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
	<40949F32-E4D2-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<8221459066.20040802155302@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <9F8C4C02-E4D7-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 3:53 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Trevor-
>
> Ah. So you only want to run if the app is running off the USB drive.
> How about something simple:
>
> if drive is removable (OS test) then
>    write a text file to the drive
>    if the write was successful then
>       it's not a CDROM
>    else
>        somebody copied it to a CD
>    end if
> else
>     it's been copied to a hard disk
> end if

I like simple.  that seems like it would work nicely Mark.

Thanks,


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  2 19:04:16 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:04:16 -0700
Subject: hasMemory
In-Reply-To: <B894896E-E4C9-11D8-AE9B-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
References: <B894896E-E4C9-11D8-AE9B-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <12022133626.20040802160416@ahsoftware.net>

Brian-

Monday, August 2, 2004, 2:20:04 PM, you wrote:

BY> Conclusion- I would stay way unless you want something specific on
BY> MacOS and can verify that it works.

Yep. I figured as much. Mind you, I'm not trying to use it - I just
came across it in the documentation and was wondering what the "half
implemented" thing was all about.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  2 19:11:43 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:11:43 -0700
Subject: hasMemory
In-Reply-To: <410EB899.2020907@fourthworld.com>
References: <3215533876.20040802141416@ahsoftware.net>
 <410EB899.2020907@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <3722580819.20040802161143@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Monday, August 2, 2004, 2:56:41 PM, you wrote:

RG> of course the VM in UNIX, including OS X, is stellar.  I've never had a
RG> low-memory condition in any OS other than Win95 (back when the machines
RG> shipped with barely enough to run the OS) and Mac OS 9.

<I once managed to install Win95 on a machine that had 4M of memory. I
started the installer, went to bed, and looked in on it the next
morning. And the dang thing actually ran. No memory to run
applications, of course, but the OS came up just fine.>

RG> My rule of thumb is to avoid tokens implemented "for compatibility".
RG> The old MC docs didn't even include any that weren't fully implemented,
RG> tucking them away into a note on compatibility with other tools.

I'm thinking these should all be deprecated and the SuperCard
compatibility stuff only activated if scAddressing is turned on, the
way the current HyperCard compatibility mode works with hcAddressing.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 19:15:46 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 16:15:46 -0700
Subject: hasMemory
In-Reply-To: <3722580819.20040802161143@ahsoftware.net>
References: <3215533876.20040802141416@ahsoftware.net>
	<410EB899.2020907@fourthworld.com> <3722580819.20040802161143@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <410ECB22.1090304@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
> RG> My rule of thumb is to avoid tokens implemented "for compatibility".
> RG> The old MC docs didn't even include any that weren't fully implemented,
> RG> tucking them away into a note on compatibility with other tools.
> 
> I'm thinking these should all be deprecated and the SuperCard
> compatibility stuff only activated if scAddressing is turned on, the
> way the current HyperCard compatibility mode works with hcAddressing.

Or maybe better, we could have a global property called something like 
"compatibilityErrors", which would throw exceptions for tokens that 
don't normally throw errors but aren't fully supported either.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From kee at kagi.com  Mon Aug  2 19:26:10 2004
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:26:10 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <9F8C4C02-E4D7-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BD33FEF8.299B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<888B64C4-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<C68A5884-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<D9F2B1EF-E4CE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
	<40949F32-E4D2-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<8221459066.20040802155302@ahsoftware.net>
	<9F8C4C02-E4D7-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <566C062E-E4DB-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>

How about:
Get a list of all the attached volumes, names and sizes
See if the USB drive that you initialized is visible and see if it is 
the same size as what you configured it to be.
Then see that you are running from that volume.
Not fool proof but it's a start.
If you have a way to read a specific block on the drive, you could use 
that data to provide yet another check. Put a tiny 1K file on the 
drive, add your file to the drive. Delete the 1K file. It will look 
like there is just your drive but if they duplicate the whole thing to 
another USB key, that 1K blank space won't be there.
Kee



On Aug 2, 2004, at 3:59 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> On Aug 2, 2004, at 3:53 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
>
>> Trevor-
>>
>> Ah. So you only want to run if the app is running off the USB drive.
>> How about something simple:
>>
>> if drive is removable (OS test) then
>>    write a text file to the drive
>>    if the write was successful then
>>       it's not a CDROM
>>    else
>>        somebody copied it to a CD
>>    end if
>> else
>>     it's been copied to a hard disk
>> end if
>
> I like simple.  that seems like it would work nicely Mark.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug  2 19:32:20 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:32:20 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <566C062E-E4DB-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
References: <BD33FEF8.299B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<888B64C4-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<C68A5884-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<D9F2B1EF-E4CE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
	<40949F32-E4D2-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<8221459066.20040802155302@ahsoftware.net>
	<9F8C4C02-E4D7-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<566C062E-E4DB-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <32CFD816-E4DC-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 2, 2004, at 4:26 PM, kee nethery wrote:

> How about:
> Get a list of all the attached volumes, names and sizes
> See if the USB drive that you initialized is visible and see if it is 
> the same size as what you configured it to be.
> Then see that you are running from that volume.
> Not fool proof but it's a start.
> If you have a way to read a specific block on the drive, you could use 
> that data to provide yet another check. Put a tiny 1K file on the 
> drive, add your file to the drive. Delete the 1K file. It will look 
> like there is just your drive but if they duplicate the whole thing to 
> another USB key, that 1K blank space won't be there.

That sounds like a great idea.  Any suggestions on how to read a 
specific block on a drive?  Does Rev have a built in way to do this or 
would it require an external?


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Aug  2 20:13:53 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 17:13:53 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Conductor & libiTunes for Rev Developers
Message-ID: <BD3426D1.CC8F%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Greetings Rev Developers:

After saying goodbye to the nice folks at the Rev Master's Summit and
spending many hours arguing with AppleScript, Tactile Media is happy to
announce a beta demo of Conductor, a Revolution stack that provides control
over virtually all playback features of Apple's iTunes music player on Mac
OS X.

Conductor contains the libiTunes library, a collection of 42 Transcript-like
commands and functions for controlling and retrieving data from iTunes.  We
encourage developers who have a need for CD/music control alongside Rev, and
those into skins and faces, to have a go at the demo and see how it
performs.  Download and information is available here:

  http://www.tactilemedia.com/conductor/

Please forward any questions/comments/problems off list.  Thanks in advance
for your participation and interest.

Best Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug  2 20:30:14 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:30:14 -1000
Subject: 2.5 search documentation not implemented yet?
Message-ID: <49A5350A-E4E4-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

2.5 beta 1

open documentation; switch to "search" enter "sound" --> no hits; enter 
"record" --> no hits

??


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug  2 20:10:40 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:10:40 -1000
Subject: Installing PostGreSQL Driver for  2.5
Message-ID: <8DD3CFBD-E4E1-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

We note the following in the docs for 2.5

======
PostgreSQL:
A PostgreSQL database driver is included as part of the Revolution 
installation on Windows systems.

To download an appropriate PostgreSQL driver for OS X or Unix systems, 
visit the PostgreSQL web site at <http://www.postgresql.com>.
=====

Ha.... Windows rules again! ;-(
Or possibly, it is open source and Mac that wins, meaning Rev doesn't 
have to do anything special to make it work, so they prefer you to get 
the

But not a big deal... just a bit lean for the untutored. Possibly a one 
line addition:

"After downloading the driver you should put it  <where ? />.  That's 
all you need to do. OR
After that you will need to initialize the driver  by <doing what? />

=======
Note we do see

"libmySQL.dll"

in the top level of the revolution folder in the  OSX distribution. Do 
.dll files apply to the OSX context? I always thought they were Windows 
files?

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug  2 21:19:11 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:19:11 -1000
Subject: 2.5 Beta 1 documentation
Message-ID: <203093E5-E4EB-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Should we assume the documentation is still a work in progress and not 
report all the anamolies we are experiencing (a dozen of problems at 
least) Frankly I don't have time to bugzilla things, so I'm not sure 
how to contribute without a more facile reporting option.

Anyway main problem is the search box and filter boxes do not return 
anything...or return a list of hits only a few moments later.


Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug  2 21:24:24 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:24:24 -1000
Subject: When is the timescale of a player passed to Rev?
Message-ID: <DA7466FE-E4EB-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

If I do this:

global gTimeScale
on mouseUp
   set the currentTime of player "theTape" to 0
   set the filename of player "theTape" to fld "soundFile"
   put the timescale of player "theTape" into gTimeScale
   start player "theTape"
   postTime
end mouseUp

the global gTimeScale

will have a value

If i quit Rev and then go back to the same stack and click a different 
button.

on mouseUp
   start player "theTape"
   set the currentTime of player "theTape" to fld "saveTime"
   put the timescale of player "theTape" into gTimeScale
   send postTime to this stack in 2 seconds
end mouseUp

gTimeScale is empty....

Looking through the current documentation I don't see any reference to 
when the properties are available, one would infer... but its just a 
guess, that the timescale property is only available at the moment the 
filename to the player is set.

insights?


Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  2 21:32:06 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 18:32:06 -0700
Subject: 2.5 Beta 1 documentation
In-Reply-To: <203093E5-E4EB-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <203093E5-E4EB-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <410EEB16.6030100@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Should we assume the documentation is still a work in progress and not 
> report all the anamolies we are experiencing (a dozen of problems at 
> least) Frankly I don't have time to bugzilla things, so I'm not sure how 
> to contribute without a more facile reporting option.

The latest copy of Ken's Revzilla is available at his site -- you can 
report bugs conveniently right from within Rev:

<http://www.sonsothunder.com/>

It's my understanding that if a release wears the "Beta" label it's good 
to submit bug reports for.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Mon Aug  2 22:46:45 2004
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:46:45 +0900
Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
In-Reply-To: <ACC47F54-E2A8-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <813544F8-E2A4-11D8-B312-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
	<6019D2EF-E2A7-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<ACC47F54-E2A8-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <5BED9D4E-E4F7-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Greetings

Can someone tell me what this crash log is telling me? I am trying to 
build a standalone which in the past has built successfully. RR can 
build several other stacks into standalones successfully, but this 
stack crashes every time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
Ron
==================

Date/Time:      2004-08-03 11:28:57 +0900
OS Version:     10.3.4 (Build 7H63)
Report Version: 2

Command: Revolution
Path:    /Users/reb/Documents/MacSeisho dev/current build/Revolution 
2.2.1/Revolution.app/Contents/MacOS/Revolution
Version: 2.2.1 (2.2.1)
PID:     742
Thread:  0

Exception:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes:      KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x066570c8




From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Mon Aug  2 23:02:13 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:32:13 +0930
Subject: 2.5 search documentation not implemented yet?
In-Reply-To: <49A5350A-E4E4-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIELBENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

There was an issue with the search option in 2.5b1. It's resolved now.

Cheers

--
  Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
  Sweat Technologies

  InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
  http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget


>-----Original Message-----
>From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Sannyasin
>Sivakatirswami
>Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 10:00 AM
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Subject: 2.5 search documentation not implemented yet?
>
>
>2.5 beta 1
>
>open documentation; switch to "search" enter "sound" --> no hits; enter 
>"record" --> no hits
>
>??
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Mon Aug  2 23:02:14 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:32:14 +0930
Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
In-Reply-To: <5BED9D4E-E4F7-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHKELBENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


Can you give some more details. Is it crashing during the standalone build
process or when you try to launch your standalone?

Cheers

--
  Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
  Sweat Technologies

  InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
  http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget


>-----Original Message-----
>From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of ron barber
>Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 12:17 PM
>To: How to use Revolution
>Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
>
>
>Greetings
>
>Can someone tell me what this crash log is telling me? I am trying to
>build a standalone which in the past has built successfully. RR can
>build several other stacks into standalones successfully, but this
>stack crashes every time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>thanks
>Ron
>==================
>
>Date/Time:      2004-08-03 11:28:57 +0900
>OS Version:     10.3.4 (Build 7H63)
>Report Version: 2
>
>Command: Revolution
>Path:    /Users/reb/Documents/MacSeisho dev/current build/Revolution
>2.2.1/Revolution.app/Contents/MacOS/Revolution
>Version: 2.2.1 (2.2.1)
>PID:     742
>Thread:  0
>
>Exception:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
>Codes:      KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x066570c8
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Aug  2 23:11:48 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:11:48 +1000
Subject: Question about command revGoURL
In-Reply-To: <BD344979.1399%operoutka@volny.cz>
References: <BD344979.1399%operoutka@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <DB910F99-E4FA-11D8-8B9C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> thank you Judy for your respond and I try to explain what I'm doing. I 
> want
> to open HTML file that is located on my local Hard Drive. This file is
> "myFile.htm". The absolute path to this my file is /Macintosh HD/Mac
> temp/data/myFile.htm, this path contains 2 spaces in name of folders
> "Macintosh HD" and "Mac temp".
>
> Than if I write:
>
> revGoURL myDataFolder & "myFile.htm"
>
>  -- myDataFolder contains the path on local HardDrive (=/Macintosh 
> HD/Mac
> temp/data) to file "myFile.htm"
> -- myFile.htm is file in folder data on local Hard Disk, that I want 
> to open
> in Internet Explorer (or other default browser).
>
> After the Internet Explorer is open, one is looking for file with path:
> Macintosh%20HD/Mac%20temp/data/myFile.htm. This path doesn't exist.
>
>
With revGoURL, you have to tell the system what sort of URL you are 
using. If you put:
	revGoURL "http://" & myDataFolder & "myFile.htm"
it will know that you want to open the file in the browser.

Internet Explorer always puts "%20" in place of any spaces in the path. 
Check out the URLencode & URLdecode functions for how to do this 
yourself although you shouldn't need to.

Finally, if the file still won;t open, it is nearly always a path 
error. Try putting this in the message box and pressing Enter:
answer file "Select htm file:"; put it

This will show you the exact path for the file you want to load and you 
can check whether you are building the file path correctly in your 
script.

Cheers,
Sarah


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  2 23:18:24 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:18:24 -0700
Subject: hasMemory
In-Reply-To: <410ECB22.1090304@fourthworld.com>
References: <3215533876.20040802141416@ahsoftware.net>
 <3722580819.20040802161143@ahsoftware.net> <410ECB22.1090304@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <16237381882.20040802201824@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Monday, August 2, 2004, 4:15:46 PM, you wrote:

RG> Or maybe better, we could have a global property called something like
RG> "compatibilityErrors", which would throw exceptions for tokens that
RG> don't normally throw errors but aren't fully supported either.

I've been compiling a list of these bad boys. I take it you have one
of your own?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Aug  2 23:23:08 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:23:08 +1000
Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
In-Reply-To: <5BED9D4E-E4F7-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>
References: <813544F8-E2A4-11D8-B312-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
	<6019D2EF-E2A7-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<ACC47F54-E2A8-11D8-9385-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<5BED9D4E-E4F7-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <712CD648-E4FC-11D8-8B9C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Where are you saving the build? The path shown in the crash log takes 
you right into the Revolution bundle. If you are trying to put your 
build there by mistake, that might be giving problems. Also, make sure 
your path is not too long - rev has problems with OS X if the full path 
has too many characters (I forget what the limit is), or if the final 
file name is more than 32 characters.

Apart from that, where do you get the crash - during build or when you 
run the standalone? How is your standalone structured? Are you using 
any externals?

Cheers,
Sarah

On 3 Aug 2004, at 12:45 pm, ron barber wrote:

> Greetings
>
> Can someone tell me what this crash log is telling me? I am trying to 
> build a standalone which in the past has built successfully. RR can 
> build several other stacks into standalones successfully, but this 
> stack crashes every time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> thanks
> Ron
> ==================
>
> Date/Time:      2004-08-03 11:28:57 +0900
> OS Version:     10.3.4 (Build 7H63)
> Report Version: 2
>
> Command: Revolution
> Path:    /Users/reb/Documents/MacSeisho dev/current build/Revolution 
> 2.2.1/Revolution.app/Contents/MacOS/Revolution
> Version: 2.2.1 (2.2.1)
> PID:     742
> Thread:  0
>
> Exception:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
> Codes:      KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x066570c8
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Mon Aug  2 23:29:07 2004
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:29:07 +0900
Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHKELBENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHKELBENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <46FCE80A-E4FD-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi Monte

thanks for the reply. The application has an invisible main stack 
palette and a visible sub-stack palette along with other substacks that 
open as needed.

  It crashes during the standalone build. It ask if I want to save 
changes. Yes or no, the result is the same. In the 'yes' case, it saves 
changes, closes the window. Then the mainstack flashes open and closes, 
the visible substack opens and shortly thereafter, RR crashes.

What else would be helpful to know?
Ron

On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:02 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>
> Can you give some more details. Is it crashing during the standalone 
> build
> process or when you try to launch your standalone?
>
> Cheers
>
> --
>   Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
>   Sweat Technologies
>
>   InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
>   http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of ron 
>> barber
>> Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 12:17 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
>>
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>> Can someone tell me what this crash log is telling me? I am trying to
>> build a standalone which in the past has built successfully. RR can
>> build several other stacks into standalones successfully, but this
>> stack crashes every time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> thanks
>> Ron
>> ==================
>>
>> Date/Time:      2004-08-03 11:28:57 +0900
>> OS Version:     10.3.4 (Build 7H63)
>> Report Version: 2
>>
>> Command: Revolution
>> Path:    /Users/reb/Documents/MacSeisho dev/current build/Revolution
>> 2.2.1/Revolution.app/Contents/MacOS/Revolution
>> Version: 2.2.1 (2.2.1)
>> PID:     742
>> Thread:  0
>>
>> Exception:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
>> Codes:      KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x066570c8
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Aug  2 23:26:21 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:26:21 -0700
Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHKELBENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <E441D68C-E4FC-11D8-84A7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Monday, August 2, 2004, at 08:02 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> Can you give some more details. Is it crashing during the standalone 
> build
> process or when you try to launch your standalone?
>
> Cheers

Hi Monte,

I had a problem building a Mac Classic build on a Mac 9.1 machine in 
Rev 2.2.1 so I brought it over to another Mac Classic 9.0 machine using 
Rev 2.2 and it built fine.

On Rev 2.2.1 it alerted this "There was an error while saving the 
standalone application"

I forgot how to look up the crashlogs or any other reporting that might 
clue me into why Rev 2.2.1 did not work but Rev 2.2 did.

Mark


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug  2 23:32:54 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:32:54 -1000
Subject: When is the timescale of a player passed to Rev?
In-Reply-To: <DA7466FE-E4EB-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <DA7466FE-E4EB-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <CE2BA0F0-E4FD-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

please ignore this... duh... i forgot to declare the global in the 
second button.


On Aug 2, 2004, at 3:24 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> If I do this:
>
> global gTimeScale
> on mouseUp
>   set the currentTime of player "theTape" to 0
>   set the filename of player "theTape" to fld "soundFile"
>   put the timescale of player "theTape" into gTimeScale
>   start player "theTape"
>   postTime
> end mouseUp
>
> the global gTimeScale
>
> will have a value
>
> If i quit Rev and then go back to the same stack and click a different 
> button.
>
> on mouseUp
>   start player "theTape"
>   set the currentTime of player "theTape" to fld "saveTime"
>   put the timescale of player "theTape" into gTimeScale
>   send postTime to this stack in 2 seconds
> end mouseUp
>
> gTimeScale is empty....


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Aug  2 23:34:12 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:34:12 +1000
Subject: Saving and Talking
In-Reply-To: <2776EA68-E41F-11D8-A956-000D9366AC66@ozemail.com.au>
References: <20040730040319.B8AA7930104@mail.runrev.com>
	<2776EA68-E41F-11D8-A956-000D9366AC66@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <FCD4E8F8-E4FD-11D8-8B9C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

It sounds like the revSpeech bundle is being loaded when you build a 
standalone with all the stacks in a single file, but when you separate 
out the sub-stacks to make them writable, the revSpeech bundle isn't 
loading.

Which stack loads the bundle and is that stack in use? Here is a 
section from a routine that I use for a Mac OS X bundle - your path may 
vary:

on enableLibraries
   put the fileName of stack "Splash" into tFile
   set the itemDel to "/"
   delete last item of tFile
   set the externals of stack "Main" to tFile & 
"/externals/revspeech.bundle"
   start using stack "Main"
end enableLibraries	

The key is to make sure that whatever stack loads the speech is in use.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 2 Aug 2004, at 10:59 am, Greg Wills wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I am having trouble getting a standalone to do both these functions in 
> the same app. What I want to do is allow the user to alter button 
> names. The name of the button can then be used to speak the word. This 
> works fine as a stack.
>
> I can get the Distribution Builder to build a standalone that will 
> save changes (button names).
>
> I can get the Distribution Builder to build a standalone that will 
> speak the button name.
>
> BUT not in the same build.
>
> I have tried combinations of settings, but don't seem to be able to 
> get the standalone to be able to save changes and be able to use the 
> revspeak function. Any thoughts?
>
> I am using Rev 2.0.
>
> cheers
>
> Greg
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Mon Aug  2 23:40:05 2004
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:40:05 +0900
Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
In-Reply-To: <E441D68C-E4FC-11D8-84A7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <E441D68C-E4FC-11D8-84A7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CF4975CF-E4FE-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi Mark, Sarah

I tried on 2.2 and on 2.2.1 with the same result.

The crash log is located in Library/logs/crash reporter

I am using Valentina external. This has not been a problem with 
previous builds.

I have tried various build locations.

I must have made some changes in the script that is tripping the SA 
builder up, but I can't find them yet.

Thanks
Ron


On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>
> On Monday, August 2, 2004, at 08:02 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>
>> Can you give some more details. Is it crashing during the standalone 
>> build
>> process or when you try to launch your standalone?
>>
>> Cheers
>
> Hi Monte,
>
> I had a problem building a Mac Classic build on a Mac 9.1 machine in 
> Rev 2.2.1 so I brought it over to another Mac Classic 9.0 machine 
> using Rev 2.2 and it built fine.
>
> On Rev 2.2.1 it alerted this "There was an error while saving the 
> standalone application"
>
> I forgot how to look up the crashlogs or any other reporting that 
> might clue me into why Rev 2.2.1 did not work but Rev 2.2 did.
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug  2 23:37:21 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:37:21 -1000
Subject: 2.5 search documentation not implemented yet?
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIELBENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIELBENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <6D8F3D16-E4FE-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

What about the "dictionary" which was my favorite place to land 
previously... Now if I click on "dictionary" icon above in the 
documentation window... nothing happens.

On Aug 2, 2004, at 5:02 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> There was an issue with the search option in 2.5b1. It's resolved now.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
>   Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
>   Sweat Technologies
>
>   InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
>   http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Sannyasin
>> Sivakatirswami
>> Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 10:00 AM
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Subject: 2.5 search documentation not implemented yet?
>>
>>
>> 2.5 beta 1
>>
>> open documentation; switch to "search" enter "sound" --> no hits; 
>> enter
>> "record" --> no hits
>>
>> ??
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Mon Aug  2 23:37:54 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:07:54 +0930
Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
In-Reply-To: <46FCE80A-E4FD-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCELDENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Ah.. I think this is one I've recently found and fixed. A temporary
workaround would be to set the visible of the mainstack to true. The fix
will be in Beta 2 of 2.5.

Cheers

--
  Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
  Sweat Technologies

  InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
  http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget


>-----Original Message-----
>From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of ron barber
>Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 12:59 PM
>To: How to use Revolution
>Subject: Re: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
>
>
>Hi Monte
>
>thanks for the reply. The application has an invisible main stack
>palette and a visible sub-stack palette along with other substacks that
>open as needed.
>
>  It crashes during the standalone build. It ask if I want to save
>changes. Yes or no, the result is the same. In the 'yes' case, it saves
>changes, closes the window. Then the mainstack flashes open and closes,
>the visible substack opens and shortly thereafter, RR crashes.
>
>What else would be helpful to know?
>Ron
>
>On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:02 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>
>>
>> Can you give some more details. Is it crashing during the standalone
>> build
>> process or when you try to launch your standalone?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> --
>>   Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
>>   Sweat Technologies
>>
>>   InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
>>   http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of ron
>>> barber
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 12:17 PM
>>> To: How to use Revolution
>>> Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings
>>>
>>> Can someone tell me what this crash log is telling me? I am trying to
>>> build a standalone which in the past has built successfully. RR can
>>> build several other stacks into standalones successfully, but this
>>> stack crashes every time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> Ron
>>> ==================
>>>
>>> Date/Time:      2004-08-03 11:28:57 +0900
>>> OS Version:     10.3.4 (Build 7H63)
>>> Report Version: 2
>>>
>>> Command: Revolution
>>> Path:    /Users/reb/Documents/MacSeisho dev/current build/Revolution
>>> 2.2.1/Revolution.app/Contents/MacOS/Revolution
>>> Version: 2.2.1 (2.2.1)
>>> PID:     742
>>> Thread:  0
>>>
>>> Exception:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
>>> Codes:      KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x066570c8
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  2 23:43:01 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:43:01 -0400
Subject: 2.5 search documentation not implemented yet?
In-Reply-To: <6D8F3D16-E4FE-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIELBENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
	<6D8F3D16-E4FE-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <3840CEC2-E4FF-11D8-93BB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 11:37 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> What about the "dictionary" which was my favorite place to land 
> previously... Now if I click on "dictionary" icon above in the 
> documentation window... nothing happens.

I think I've seen this. Try putting selecting dictionary, putting your 
cursor in the search field, and hit enter.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Aug  2 23:46:56 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:46:56 -0700
Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
In-Reply-To: <CF4975CF-E4FE-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <C450AD14-E4FF-11D8-84A7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Monday, August 2, 2004, at 08:40 PM, ron barber wrote:

> The crash log is located in Library/logs/crash reporter

There is no Library folder in Rev 2.2.1 for MacOS 9

Mark


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug  2 23:49:06 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:49:06 -1000
Subject: 2.5 Beta 1 documentation
In-Reply-To: <410EEB16.6030100@fourthworld.com>
References: <203093E5-E4EB-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<410EEB16.6030100@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <11959475-E500-11D8-B8CC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Great, yes, RevZilla...

I couldn't get it to work before with FireFox (my favorite browser 
now... fantastic tool set)cookies. But it works now... ( entered the  
login and cookie number and Ken seems to now have an "unknown" browser 
option... that let's RevZilla work even if your browser is not on the 
list.


On Aug 2, 2004, at 3:32 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> The latest copy of Ken's Revzilla is available at his site -- you can 
> report bugs conveniently right from within Rev:
>
> <http://www.sonsothunder.com/>
>
> It's my understanding that if a release wears the "Beta" label it's 
> good to submit bug reports for.


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Mon Aug  2 23:53:30 2004
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:53:30 +0900
Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCELDENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCELDENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <AEC2F7BE-E500-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Ah...I think this is one I've recently found too!

I changed the main stack to visible and that solved the problem, viz. I 
can successfully build the standalone. I find it hard to believe no one 
else has run into this, since I thought it was a fairly standard 
procedure. At any rate, thanks for the prompt support and solution. 
I'll keep it visible until it can be built the way it should be.

So this is a problem for 2.2 and for 2.2.1 and the only fix is to get 
2.5?

Thanks for you work,
Ron


On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:37 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> Ah.. I think this is one I've recently found and fixed. A temporary
> workaround would be to set the visible of the mainstack to true. The 
> fix
> will be in Beta 2 of 2.5.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
>   Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
>   Sweat Technologies
>
>   InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
>   http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of ron 
>> barber
>> Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 12:59 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Re: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
>>
>>
>> Hi Monte
>>
>> thanks for the reply. The application has an invisible main stack
>> palette and a visible sub-stack palette along with other substacks 
>> that
>> open as needed.
>>
>>  It crashes during the standalone build. It ask if I want to save
>> changes. Yes or no, the result is the same. In the 'yes' case, it 
>> saves
>> changes, closes the window. Then the mainstack flashes open and 
>> closes,
>> the visible substack opens and shortly thereafter, RR crashes.
>>
>> What else would be helpful to know?
>> Ron
>>
>> On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:02 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Can you give some more details. Is it crashing during the standalone
>>> build
>>> process or when you try to launch your standalone?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> --
>>>   Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
>>>   Sweat Technologies
>>>
>>>   InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
>>>   http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of ron
>>>> barber
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 12:17 PM
>>>> To: How to use Revolution
>>>> Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Greetings
>>>>
>>>> Can someone tell me what this crash log is telling me? I am trying 
>>>> to
>>>> build a standalone which in the past has built successfully. RR can
>>>> build several other stacks into standalones successfully, but this
>>>> stack crashes every time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> Ron
>>>> ==================
>>>>
>>>> Date/Time:      2004-08-03 11:28:57 +0900
>>>> OS Version:     10.3.4 (Build 7H63)
>>>> Report Version: 2
>>>>
>>>> Command: Revolution
>>>> Path:    /Users/reb/Documents/MacSeisho dev/current build/Revolution
>>>> 2.2.1/Revolution.app/Contents/MacOS/Revolution
>>>> Version: 2.2.1 (2.2.1)
>>>> PID:     742
>>>> Thread:  0
>>>>
>>>> Exception:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
>>>> Codes:      KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x066570c8
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Aug  3 00:20:38 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:50:38 +0930
Subject: 2.5 search documentation not implemented yet?
In-Reply-To: <3840CEC2-E4FF-11D8-93BB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIELEENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


Yes.. when you switch indexes it redoes the search/filter operation on the
new index. Give the search in b1 returned nothing every thime this is
probably what you are seeing???
--
  Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
  Sweat Technologies

  InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
  http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget


>> What about the "dictionary" which was my favorite place to land
>> previously... Now if I click on "dictionary" icon above in the
>> documentation window... nothing happens.
>
>I think I've seen this. Try putting selecting dictionary, putting your
>cursor in the search field, and hit enter.
>
>--
>Troy
>RPSystems, Ltd.
>http://www.rpsystems.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From bsieber2 at msn.com  Tue Aug  3 00:20:57 2004
From: bsieber2 at msn.com (Barry Sieber)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 04:20:57 +0000
Subject: Callbacks
Message-ID: <BAY5-F3EDjw64e2vSKT0007ee18@hotmail.com>

I am a newbie with Revoloution and would like to get some information about 
using callbacks with Revolution to support QuickTime movies. I would like to 
have information displayed during playback by attaching callbacks to the 
movie's chapter tracks times so that the message the callback contains is 
displayed. I have 2 questions. How are callbacks created? Does one type into 
the callbacks option screen (of the Property Inspector Window) when the 
quicktime movie is selected and enter the numbers and messages there? I have 
tried that, but upon typing them in and then selecting another option such 
as basic properties and then going back to the callback list, I see the 
callbacks are now gone. I have the callback handler on the card script so 
that when the message is tagged in the movie, the script for the message 
should display in the field I tell it to.

Please help me establish callbacks to use in conjunction with quicktime 
playback of text/chapter tracks.

Barry Sieber



From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Tue Aug  3 00:24:51 2004
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:24:51 +0900
Subject: Crash on Standalone build - Help please
In-Reply-To: <C450AD14-E4FF-11D8-84A7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <C450AD14-E4FF-11D8-84A7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <10034343-E505-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Sorry Mark, I read right over that detail about OS 9. I'm not on 9 
right now, so I don't know either.
Ron


On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:46 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>
> On Monday, August 2, 2004, at 08:40 PM, ron barber wrote:
>
>> The crash log is located in Library/logs/crash reporter
>
> There is no Library folder in Rev 2.2.1 for MacOS 9
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug  3 00:35:20 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:35:20 -0700
Subject: hasMemory
In-Reply-To: <16237381882.20040802201824@ahsoftware.net>
References: <3215533876.20040802141416@ahsoftware.net>
	<3722580819.20040802161143@ahsoftware.net> <410ECB22.1090304@fourthworld.com>
	<16237381882.20040802201824@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <410F1608.3080104@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
> Richard-
> 
> Monday, August 2, 2004, 4:15:46 PM, you wrote:
> 
> RG> Or maybe better, we could have a global property called something like
> RG> "compatibilityErrors", which would throw exceptions for tokens that
> RG> don't normally throw errors but aren't fully supported either.
> 
> I've been compiling a list of these bad boys. I take it you have one
> of your own?
> 

Bugzilla.

I usually float an idea here or on the Improve-Rev list, and if it seems 
to resonate I add the request to Bugzilla.  This one seems only of 
interest to you and me, and it's a very minor concern so I haven't bothered.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug  3 01:07:02 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 01:07:02 -0400
Subject: Callbacks
In-Reply-To: <BAY5-F3EDjw64e2vSKT0007ee18@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY5-F3EDjw64e2vSKT0007ee18@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <F4C66BCE-E50A-11D8-93BB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:20 AM, Barry Sieber wrote:

> How are callbacks created? Does one type into the callbacks option 
> screen (of the Property Inspector Window) when the quicktime movie is 
> selected and enter the numbers and messages there? I have tried that, 
> but upon typing them in and then selecting another option such as 
> basic properties and then going back to the callback list, I see the 
> callbacks are now gone. I have the callback handler on the card script 
> so that when the message is tagged in the movie, the script for the 
> message should display in the field I tell it to.

Well, you can use the property inspector, or you can set them through 
script.

 From the Transcript dictionary -

set the callbacks of player "Do It!" to "2500,soundNotes"

The property inspector is sometimes odd. Try hitting tab while on the 
callbacks page. Sometimes that will "fix" them. The script method 
should work very reliably though.

>
> Please help me establish callbacks to use in conjunction with 
> quicktime playback of text/chapter tracks.

Here's hoping.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From support at psystems.com.au  Tue Aug  3 01:29:02 2004
From: support at psystems.com.au (Paul Arnott)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 15:29:02 +1000
Subject: Learning space
Message-ID: <410F229E.4000604@psystems.com.au>

Hi all,
Question from a complete newbie!!
Not being a programmer of any sort, Revolution has me fascinated, so I'm 
looking to learn wherever I can.
I've loaded the beta 2.5, when I read about the Learning Space and 
tutorials, but when I try to access the Learning Space I get a msg 
'Incompatible Channel. This channel cannot be run in this environment'
I'm running Win2000. Is this the problem?
Paul

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Aug  3 01:32:53 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:32:53 -0700
Subject: hasMemory
In-Reply-To: <410F1608.3080104@fourthworld.com>
References: <3215533876.20040802141416@ahsoftware.net>
	<16237381882.20040802201824@ahsoftware.net>
	<410F1608.3080104@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <19645450123.20040802223253@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Monday, August 2, 2004, 9:35:20 PM, you wrote:

RG> to resonate I add the request to Bugzilla.  This one seems only of
RG> interest to you and me, and it's a very minor concern so I haven't bothered.

Fair enough.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug  3 01:37:36 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 01:37:36 -0400
Subject: Learning space
In-Reply-To: <410F229E.4000604@psystems.com.au>
References: <410F229E.4000604@psystems.com.au>
Message-ID: <39984D0E-E50F-11D8-93BB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 3, 2004, at 1:29 AM, Paul Arnott wrote:

> Not being a programmer of any sort, Revolution has me fascinated, so 
> I'm looking to learn wherever I can.
> I've loaded the beta 2.5, when I read about the Learning Space and 
> tutorials, but when I try to access the Learning Space I get a msg 
> 'Incompatible Channel. This channel cannot be run in this environment'
> I'm running Win2000. Is this the problem?

Maybe. Buy a Mac. (Just kidding.)

The learning space is pretty "beta", don't expect much yet. There is 
plenty of other information to read up on in the meantime.

Incidentally, if you are truly new - I'd suggest downloading 2.2.1.  
Betas aren't for the feint of heart, you could easily get discouraged 
at beta behaviors.  ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Aug  3 02:01:10 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:01:10 +0200
Subject: Advise on enterprize application + clustering
In-Reply-To: <6AD42016-E4D0-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEMIGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

This is getting interesting... A bit of everything to solve
your problem (x's famous howitzer approach). The last part
may be even more interesting than the first. Remember that
enterprise means also redundancy and zero-downtime ;)

Unfortunately there is some risks of lock ups if not done
carefully... But here are 3 things you could try:

1)

In a three tiered cluster strategy, mentioned in a clustering
class I had recently, there were three actors

  client -> server1 -> server2

  client -> server2 is not possible because of the firewall.

  but server1 -> server2 is fine and client -> server1 is ok2

  if client cannot use sql but can use client1's ports,
  and assuming client1 and client2 can do the sql bit...

  then you need a port configurable client server networking
  protocol.

  in brief:
  RRclient -> RR on Server -> SQLserver

  between RRclient and RRserver you use whatever protocol (80!)
  Best is to have your client ask their network administrator
  to see what is allowed and for what purpose.

  If you saw the forms we have to fill in for these requests
  at my office you would scream!

2)

For the clustering part now... For a redundant server...
  but you can have more than one server also...

  Run two instances of RR. Named RRServer1 and RRS2.
  Now only one application must work with the port communication
  at the time but you can imagine either that one is locked up,
  not responding, or working hard. It would be nice to have RR2
  take over the next client's server call...

  What you do, is create a temporary file called rr1alive where
  you write a frequent log - the frequency is the timeout for RR2
  to kick and start working.

  There's the case where the RR1alive file is locked by the RR1,
  which should be working but which should be closing the file.

  (is there a FileLocked(filepath) function in rr?)
  You can use the file's date from the extended files function to
  see the date anyway.

  So if there is a timeout trying to read that file, RR1 must be
  locked. Terminate the process RR1. Relaunch RR1 and give it the
  hand when you finished the current client processing.

  Note: usage of a different log for operations than the alivelog
  is worth the trouble. You could keep a log opened in the case of
  a processing but the alivelog should be kept closed to see when
  the last alive was logged to prevent a double server taking parts
  each of the same client's transactions (this can be prevented ez).

  Since transactions with SQL could take a while and queue up clients
  you could imagine that another RRx takes over while the other
  apps finish their transactions.

3)
  The cherry on the cake

  Now, if RunRev implemented threading into RR for 3.0, we would have
  this process written into just one server application. It's one
  thing that differentiates Java from RR... BUT wait a millisecond,
  requesting web urls is threaded and could be used also as a
  transaction protocol for any client over port 80 couldn't it?

  If well formed, im sure you can send xml or any data embeded into
  an client-side html-form request on good old port 80!
  Using mysqlmgr in html, you can send loads of sql data via a form
  to the server.

;)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Andre
> Garzia
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 00:08
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Advise on enterprize application.
>
>
>
> On Aug 2, 2004, at 6:51 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
>
> > Andre-
> >
> > I'd have to agree with Trevor here that a multi-tiered approach is the
> > way to go. I think you'll have an easier time of it than trying to
> > stuff everything into a giant rev app (not to mention an easier time
> > doing maintenance in the long run).
> >
>
> Mark,
>
> Thanks! Already on that path! I just need to know how to make that
> database library work in the mc engine... it's not there...
>
> Andre
>
>
> > --
> > -Mark Wieder
> >  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
> >
> >
> --
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Tue Aug  3 01:49:02 2004
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:49:02 -0700
Subject: How to see if player is "done"?
In-Reply-To: <410EC444.3080306@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <ILEFKEGKNEFMMOILLJNOAEJDCKAA.davis.phil@comcast.net>

Jacque, Trevor, Scott -

Thanks for all the great feedback!

Phil

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of J. Landman
> Gay
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 2:46 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: How to see if player is "done"?
> 
> 
> On 8/2/04 4:08 PM, Phil Davis wrote:
> 
> > Hi List -
> > 
> > Some context:
> > 
> > When using VIDEOCLIPS (embedded movies), we have two language features 
> > available that help us detect whether a clip is still playing:
> >   - the "movie" function
> >   - the "playStopped" message
> > 
> > When using PLAYERS to play movies (referenced files), we 
> apparently have 
> > only one such feature available:
> >   - the "playStopped" message
> 
> You should be able to use all the messages, regardless of where the 
> actual movie file is stored. The Player object acts the same regardless 
> (or it is supposed to.) I have an app that loads QT movies from disk and 
> it uses all the standard Player messages.
> 
> 
> > My questions:
> > 
> > 1) Is "playStopped" truly the only non-workaround way you can 
> detect the 
> > current 'play' status of a player?
> 
> If you aren't getting this message, file a bug report. It got broken in 
> the past, then it got fixed, then it got broken and fixed again, and now 
> I'm not sure what its status is (but I thought it was okay now.)
> 
> If you just need to see if the movie is running or not, then check the 
> paused property, as others suggested.
> 
> > 
> > 2) If so, what is your most reliable workaround way of detecting this?
> 
> In addition to the other suggestions, another way is to set the 
> callbacks of a movie. I've used these in the past, setting the callback 
> time to the duration of the movie. In effect, it creates my own custom 
> "playStopped" message.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From davis.phil at comcast.net  Tue Aug  3 01:51:37 2004
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:51:37 -0700
Subject: "playStarted" message - bad docs or unsupported feature?
In-Reply-To: <410EC4BB.5080700@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <ILEFKEGKNEFMMOILLJNOGEJDCKAA.davis.phil@comcast.net>

Thanks. I suspected the same, because the message seems to work in all cases
on at least Win32 & MacOSX.

Phil


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of J. Landman
> Gay
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 2:48 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: "playStarted" message - bad docs or unsupported feature?
>
>
> On 8/2/04 4:19 PM, Phil Davis wrote:
>
> > Can someone please clarify this for everyone (including me):
> >
> > When a player starts, Rev sends a "playStarted" message. However, there
> > is no "playStarted" entry in the docs. How come?
> >
> > Is this because:
> > 1) the message was overlooked when docs were created, or
> > 2) "playStarted" is an unsupported message?
>
> The first, I think. It's a standard message, and it looks like an
> inadvertent omission in the docs.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug  3 02:22:19 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 01:22:19 -0500
Subject: How to add Database Library to CGI engine?
In-Reply-To: <F829D524-E4CB-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BD34994B.2A73%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/2/04 4:36 PM, "Andre Garzia" <soapdog at mac.com> wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> 
> Uh... my MC engine for Linux is failing on revOpenDatabase, I assume
> this is due to a lack of the library itself for the error is like
> handler unknown... is there any trick to add DB support to a CGI?
> Man... I should know better...

Andre, how about downloading and connecting to the Valentina DB externals
directly (i.e. attach them to a stack which you open from the CGI to make DB
calls)?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Tue Aug  3 03:23:54 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:23:54 +0200
Subject: [ANN] Conductor & libiTunes for Rev Developers
In-Reply-To: <BD3426D1.CC8F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BD3426D1.CC8F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <13AC933A-E51E-11D8-A060-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>


Le 03-ao?t-04, ? 02:13, Scott Rossi a ?crit :

> Greetings Rev Developers:
>
> After saying goodbye to the nice folks at the Rev Master's Summit and
> spending many hours arguing with AppleScript, Tactile Media is happy to
> announce a beta demo of Conductor, a Revolution stack that provides 
> control
> over virtually all playback features of Apple's iTunes music player on 
> Mac
> OS X.
>
>

Hi Scott,

FABULOUS !

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be

From malte.brill at t-online.de  Tue Aug  3 03:50:59 2004
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 09:50:59 +0200
Subject: Animation library - libRMC
In-Reply-To: <20040803025959.7E45A93006E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD351083.2411%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi Erik,

>do you move multiple objects simultaneously?

Yes, I do. The main concept is to have handlers that calculate the next
point on the path. So if you call the handlers just once it will move the
object to the next point. You can easiely create a handler that calls itself
in a send in time structure.

In this handler you call the handlers that animate your objects.
You can have all animations in one place if you like. (mind that you must
start using stack "libRMC" to make it work.)

e.g. in a button:

on mouseUp
  if the flag of me is empty then
    set the flag of me to -1
  end if
  set the flag of me to the flag of me*-1
  hereWeGo
end mouseUp

on hereWeGo
  lock screen
  send moveCircular to img "myImage"
  send moveElliptical to grc "myGraphic"
  send moveLinear to fld "myField"
  unlock screen
  if the flag of me=1 then
    send hereWeGo to me in 4 milliseconds
  end if
end hereWeGo

Now you can use the inspector and set the custom properties created by the
handlers.

There will be a custom property set moveCircular for image "myImage" with
the following properties:

centerX - the x location of the circular paths center point
centerY - the y location
isAngle - the arcAngle
isRadius - the radius of the circle
step     - the speed and direction the object moves on the path

Each handler creates its own Custom properties set, so its easy to play with
it. :-)

Of course you can set these properties by script:

e.g. 

set the moveCircular["isRadius"] of img "myImage" to 80
set the moveCircular["step"] of img "myImage" to -0.5

If you happen to find the time, download my ERCSneak preview stack to see
libRMC in action.

I?ll be updating libRMC from time to time (next update will follow at the
end of August)

Best,

Malte


From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Aug  3 04:00:47 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:00:47 +0200
Subject: Rev Web Solutions?
In-Reply-To: <E84657CC-E4A4-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <E84657CC-E4A4-11D8-9D51-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <3A5853B2-E523-11D8-AEE1-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 2 ao?t 04, ? 18:56, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :

>
> On Monday, August 2, 2004, at 06:18 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>>
>> Le 2 ao?t 04, ? 06:24, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :
>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 1, 2004, at 07:45 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 1 ao?t 04, ? 23:32, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, July 31, 2004, at 04:56 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Take care about the fact that the way i expose don't use the RevDB  
>>>> lib but direct shell() calls to the psql PostgreSQL's server-side  
>>>> connector.
>>> Now technical what is the difference between the two methods ?
>>
>> 1.- worked fine years before the introduction of the RevDB lib
>> 2.- those MC/Rev applications servers are only doing what they are  
>> doing the best : working on the data presentation layer, in beetwin  
>> the Web server (one side) and (second side) the shell() + psql  
>> connector to the ACID compliant PostgreSQL RDBMS.
>> 3.- works fine and very fast in all situations, including  
>> administration tasks alike new databases and tables creations or  
>> automatic "pg_dump" (backups) operations without stopping the  
>> production statu of the PostgreSQL server.
>> 4.- least but not least : i didn't, at this time, got enought time to  
>> test RevDB and see if it's mature in about handling critical  
>> production tasks (over 400 connections/secs, 75% write mode  
>> transactions).
> Well the the db library in my opinion is good and fast , I do all kind  
> of SQL work without any problems.

That's a good news reminding me that i will have to test and learn how  
to use it as soon as possible ;)

> but I'd still like to try out and see how to work with shell() for  
> other things as you mentioned above for maintenance purposes . The  
> question, where I can get some education on that .

About general PostgreSQL + Metacard/Revolution posts :
<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>
About handling a PostgreSQL back-end from Revolution in CGI mode :
<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql+sadhu>
About handling a PostgreSQL back-end from Revolution set up as a  
web/eai applications server :
<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql+sahores>

The main site for PosrgreSQL stuffs, news, events :  
<http://www.postgresql.org/>
Cool PostgreSQL news : <http://pgreplicator.sourceforge.net/>
About PostgreSQL specifics to the MacOSX platform :   
<http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/postgresql/>

Best, Pierre

> Thanks, Hershel
>>
>> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>>
>> 100, rue de Paris
>> F - 77140 Nemours
>>
>> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>>
>> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
>> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>>
>> WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
>> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Aug  3 04:18:14 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:18:14 +0200
Subject: Advise on enterprize application.
In-Reply-To: <B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <B39C7610-E4C3-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AACAE9F2-E525-11D8-AEE1-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hello Andre,

I will answer to your post tonight. In short, the way is to have all 
your stuff binded to the standard Apache's 80 port trought sockets 
translators/listeners able to use the 80 port to provide the 
requests/replies over the web and to have your server-sided Rev apps 
connectables to the Apache default port from they own private/protected 
(> 1024) port. I use, for my own, a 10 lines .PHP script as the sockets 
translator. You can find it in searching the archives.

Because lots to do until 21 PM, more detals tonight :)

Best,

Le 2 ao?t 04, ? 22:36, Andre Garzia a ?crit :

> Hi Folks,
>
> I was hired to build a simple app here in brazil, I should take care 
> of managing contacts and projects for a small company. As a common 
> practice here in the country, they changed the project as the game was 
> going and now the only thing it doesn't do is to babysit the CEO 
> daughter, but okay, I could cope with the spec changes, it's just a 
> huge db anway. Now the sky has fallen, they want their app to talk to 
> the other franchise apps, meaning theres a company here at Rio de 
> Janeiro, another at Sao Paulo and yet another at Porto Alegre, and 
> they want to exchange data, they want the program to run everywhere 
> and they've got lot's of firewalls since they are inside a university.
>
> I was going like this, client app in Rev, MySQL running in a server, 
> everyone access the server. This ain't working!!!! They can't open 
> connections to the server running at my ISP, I can, I tested it in 
> three machines on different networks.... they can't change their 
> firewalls policies and they want to share data!!!!
>
> I am now thinking in doing the other way, I make the server using my 
> webserver stack and valentina, and they access it by the web, they can 
> pass thru the firewall to do webrequests... but that's ugly I hate 
> deploying apps using web interface. It's just simple DBs with 6 tables 
> and couple joins... should be easy!!!!
>
> I look forward to some advise for I must deliver this yesterday, and 
> they just phoned to say that the other companies will use the program, 
> that's why I am in a hurry... that's also the money that should take 
> me to malta. And since they are publishing and marketing company they 
> know nothing of IT they think that for them to use an app and for 
> outside-of-lan-ambient people to use the same app is trivial.... 
> hell!!!!! firewalls!!! fake IPs!!!!!!
>
> anyone here got an advise or idea, I am begining again from the 
> scratch so any advise is good.
>
> andre
>
> PS: and if I tell I need more time, they just dump me and use another 
> contractant.... pretty cool ain't it.
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug  3 04:49:28 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:49:28 +0200
Subject: Callbacks
In-Reply-To: <BAY5-F3EDjw64e2vSKT0007ee18@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY5-F3EDjw64e2vSKT0007ee18@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <07C56D32-E52A-11D8-9951-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Barry,

> I am a newbie with Revoloution and would like to get some information 
> about using callbacks with Revolution to support QuickTime movies. I 
> would like to have information displayed during playback by attaching 
> callbacks to the movie's chapter tracks times so that the message the 
> callback contains is displayed. I have 2 questions. How are callbacks 
> created? Does one type into the callbacks option screen (of the 
> Property Inspector Window) when the quicktime movie is selected and 
> enter the numbers and messages there? I have tried that, but upon 
> typing them in and then selecting another option such as basic 
> properties and then going back to the callback list, I see the 
> callbacks are now gone. I have the callback handler on the card script 
> so that when the message is tagged in the movie, the script for the 
> message should display in the field I tell it to.
>
> Please help me establish callbacks to use in conjunction with 
> quicktime playback of text/chapter tracks.

please check the "user contribution page" on the RR website, there is a 
small stack of mine
concerning and explaining "the callbacks":

The Mistery of the callbacks v1.0

Waaaaay down the page :-)


And please spread the word that there are LOTS of these nice thing on 
that page!!! ;-)

> Barry Sieber

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From gwills at ozemail.com.au  Tue Aug  3 04:51:35 2004
From: gwills at ozemail.com.au (Greg Wills)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 18:21:35 +0930
Subject: Saving and Talking
In-Reply-To: <20040802125657.0C7969300AD@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040802125657.0C7969300AD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <52F5FDCE-E52A-11D8-BDE1-000D9366AC66@ozemail.com.au>

Thanks Kurt, Malte and Sarah for your responses to my question. Your 
replies helped me to understand why it would not work. I misunderstood 
that the sub-stacks would be linked to the revSpeak external in the 
build.

I have not tried your suggestions, but understand why they would work.

I have done another search in the Rev archives and came across a very 
simple solution from Klaus which I tried and it works in both Mac OS X 
and Windows builds. Here it is; (Thanks Klaus.)

Put this into the script of the store-data-stack

on preopenstack
    start using stack "the standalone one" ## well, you guess
    ...
end preopenstack

and:

on closestack
     stop using stack "the standalone one"
     ...
end closestack


This way not only handlers and functions of stack "the standalone one"
are accessible but also its externals/libraries, which are missing
otherwise as you just experienced :-)

Hope that helps...




On 02/08/2004, at 10:26 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>> I can get the Distribution Builder to build a standalone that will 
>> save
>> changes (button names).
>
>> I can get the Distribution Builder to build a standalone that will
>> speak the button name.
>
>> BUT not in the same build.
>
> I guess the stack you are saving does not know that it needs to use the
> revspeak external. Try having the script that does the speak in the
> standalones mainstack and call that script from the stack you are 
> saving.
>
> e.G. declare a global or custom prop  that holds the text to be spoken 
> and
> speak that global / custom prop from the main stack.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Malte
>
>

> On Aug 2, 2004, at 1:02 AM, Greg Wills wrote:
>
>> I can get the Distribution Builder to build a standalone that will 
>> save
>> changes (button names).
>>
>   How do you do that?  I was under the impression that any persistent
> changes had to be made to a substack when running from a standalone.
> What I usually do is to open a small stack (which does nothing except
> allow me to initialize the Revolution runtime), immediately make it
> invisible,  and then open a secondary stack which allows changes to be
> saved (and in effect does all the work).
>
> -Kurt


Kurt maybe I didn't make it clear. It is saving to a sub-stack of the 
standalone. It has taken me ages to understand how to do this properly. 
Having now got to the point that I can actually do it gives me such a 
sense of freedom. Now I feel I can do whatever I want and get users to 
alter info in the stack as they want (yeh basic I know, but a 
satisfying breakthrough for me). It actually works, works reliably and 
not complicated - now!!

I am no expert on this, but if you want my explanation of how I have 
done this, I will be happy to share.

cheers

Greg

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Aug  3 03:33:55 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 00:33:55 -0700
Subject: 2.5 public beta?
In-Reply-To: <p06110406bd342f30d80b@[192.168.1.61]>
References: <BD33B763.7295%pixelbird@interisland.net>
 <p06110403bd342a04a1cc@[192.168.1.61]>
 <p06110406bd342f30d80b@[192.168.1.61]>
Message-ID: <p0610055fbd34e6c01708@[66.93.39.98]>

At 6:50 PM +0100 8/2/2004, Kaveh Bazargan wrote:
>Is this a public beta? If so which is the url? If not, why are the
>discussions on this list? ;-)

It is a public beta. You might have missed Kevin's announcement with 
the download link, but here it is:

>I'm delighted to announce Revolution 2.5 Beta for Windows and Mac OS X.
>Linux and Mac Classic will follow shortly.
>
>By definition, a beta test release is a test version and may not be
>reliable.  As such you should back up your work before using this version
>and not use it with any sensitive projects.
>
>Existing license keys will unlock this beta test version.
>
>The URL for Windows:
>http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B1/revsetup.exe
>
>Or without an installer:
>http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B1/revolution.zip
>
>Mac OS X:
>http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B1/revolutionosx.dmg
>
>An FAQ on the changes to Express can be found here:
>http://www.runrev.com/express/expresstodreamcard.shtml
>
>The testing of this version is being restricted to our existing customers so
>please do not give these URLs out outside this list.
>
>Please report any issues with this release directly on Bugzilla.
>
>Enjoy!
>
>Kind regards,
>
>Kevin

-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From curry at pair.com  Tue Aug  3 06:16:08 2004
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 05:16:08 -0500
Subject: My 2.5 beta 1 review
In-Reply-To: <20040803043251.CE9699300D1@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040803043251.CE9699300D1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bd350fe07230@[68.86.46.40]>


Here's my take on 2.5b1. (A bit late; I finally had a chance to try it!)

- The new tool cursor:

No, its appearance is not right. A pointer should be something fairly 
stable to look at, such as pointing in a direction (arrow, hand) or 
marking a location (cross, i-beam). This thing is chaotic; it has 
arrows pointing in five directions. Having the small crossed four 
arrows would tend to suggest resizing or moving things, and this is 
not the case. Is this intuitive, or misleading and confusing? Even it 
we were moving things, four crossed arrows would not be something to 
overuse; as a dragging icon it would be appropriate. Using it all the 
time is radical. They are separated from the main pointing portion of 
the cursor, and this enhances the confusing effect. Solution: a 
cursor-designing contest?

(Reading the Readme, I assume that "hand" will still be hand and 
"arrow" will still be arrow, and there will be another keyword for 
the tool icon--if so, good. Also, while defaulting to arrow is best 
for many apps, educational and some games are just as well done with 
the hand. This will be fine if it's easy to set the defaultcursor to 
the hand when desired.)

- The tool palette:

Yes and no. The advantage of dragging out a control is that you see 
its exact shape and position all the time while placing it. So, it 
has its good points as a method, and it's pretty smooth. However, it 
does have its limitations. It requires constant pressure on the mouse 
button; one-click creation is cleaner in a way. But even more 
importantly, the other old capability of dragging to create and size 
at the same time is superior in terms of what can be achieved with 
your motions. Lacking anything like this makes the new tool palette 
pretty clumsy. Double clicking to create a centered control is really 
too basic for an easy-to-use yet advanced tool like Rev. (It's more 
like what we would expect in Hyperstudio.) Rev would do better with a 
power feature, which is what we have with double-clicking the old 
tool palette.

Form should follow function. This is form striking out on its own 
with function stumbling along behind. It could be a step forward in 
both respects if the old and new palette capabilities were combined; 
after all, if you click and don't drag in the new tool palette, you 
get no result. This is wasted and unintuitive. Use the new way when 
the user drags, use the old way when he clicks or double-clicks. 
Simple, and then you have a truly superior interface, not just one 
that's "in fashion."

Including the paint and expanded draw tools is a good idea and will save time.

- The documentation window's dictionary:

Filter and Search are fine, but Scroll to term is a good thing and 
could still be included. I've used Filter many times (including every 
time I have to reset prefs, and also when I choose to use it for a 
purpose) and have always ended up setting it to Scroll as the default.

- Revolution online

Interesting way to get community going. "Cool."

- The player

Yes and no.

It's great to have Rev stacks play on all platforms; I think that is 
just as it should be. And a player is an ideal way to do this, so 
when I read about the idea, I was enthusiastic.

However, this particular player is too radical. If someone wants to 
distribute their software, they do want people to actually look at 
their software, and the people downloading also want to actually see 
that software. This player prevents that, jumping to the front and 
offering other options with the opened stack shoved to the back. 
Worse, closing the online browser quits everything. At best the user 
will be completely distracted from the program they downloaded, at 
worst they may give up before even getting to it. Either way, any 
software distributed the traditional way will seem much less valuable.

This is one of the most self-promoting players I've seen so far. So, 
selling something made with DreamCard would be very unlikely, but 
even freeware distributed as a traditional download package would 
just seem like part of the background when opened up. Was it worth 
downloading?

When browsing for online contributions it's not so bad, but on the 
other hand, this assumes a "community" point of view where the user 
is interested in trying whatever's out there, good and bad, big and 
small, all there together. What if a user downloads a distributed 
stack and just wants to see that stack and do whatever it does--not 
in community frame of mind, not interested in seeing other things? 
The DreamCard player is so IDE-centric and focused on the new 
community idea that it stops filling the original role of a player.

If there is still going to be any traditional distribution of stacks 
(on web pages and download sites) for use with the player, then the 
online browser should not take over. It could be available from a 
menu or button rather than popping out. And the Revolution 
message/promotion should be toned down and balanced. If someone 
downloads a distributed stack then they don't necessarily want to 
make their own; they haven't indicated that they want that, but they 
have indicated that they want to try the stack they downloaded. They 
should be able to play and exit the software without actually 
declining a trial download of Revolution or seeing too much 
advertising; otherwise stacks distributed in download sites won't be 
worth much and the online DreamCard community, good as it may be, 
might be all there is.

I think new concepts associated with the player should be added in a 
way that doesn't kill off the old ones!

The pitch for Buy/Try Revolution could be in a window reached from an 
"About the Player..." menu item, and the online browser could be 
available from that same window or from another menu item. If the 
user is opening a specific project (by dragging or by double-clicking 
that project) then keeping things focused on that project will be 
respecting the user's wishes. In this case, a splash screen would be 
better on exit (a traditional "Made with") rather than startup, 
because the user should be "in" the software with the assistance of 
the player, rather than "in" the player.

If the user double-clicks the player, then the intent is different 
and there's no reason not to go right into the online browser; they 
want to be "in" the player. However, opening a file stored on the 
user's hard disk should also be an option, in a menu item and 
probably also in a dialog or a button on the browser window.

-- 
Curry Kenworthy
--
Curry K. Software
http://www.curryk.com/

Christian xTalk Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cxtalk/


From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Aug  3 06:17:17 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 05:17:17 -0500
Subject: [ANN] Conductor & libiTunes for Rev Developers
In-Reply-To: <BD3426D1.CC8F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BD3426D1.CC8F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <410F662D.3070800@chipp.com>

Pretty cool stuff. I look forward to trying it out :-)

Scott Rossi wrote:

> Greetings Rev Developers:
> 
> After saying goodbye to the nice folks at the Rev Master's Summit and
> spending many hours arguing with AppleScript, Tactile Media is happy to
> announce a beta demo of Conductor, a Revolution stack that provides control
> over virtually all playback features of Apple's iTunes music player on Mac
> OS X.
> 
> Conductor contains the libiTunes library, a collection of 42 Transcript-like
> commands and functions for controlling and retrieving data from iTunes.  We
> encourage developers who have a need for CD/music control alongside Rev, and
> those into skins and faces, to have a go at the demo and see how it
> performs.  Download and information is available here:
> 
>   http://www.tactilemedia.com/conductor/
> 
> Please forward any questions/comments/problems off list.  Thanks in advance
> for your participation and interest.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From mark at maseurope.net  Tue Aug  3 07:36:59 2004
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:36:59 +0100
Subject: which engine for OS X CGI
In-Reply-To: <20040803101447.4C89F9300D8@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040803101447.4C89F9300D8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6EA1A4A8-E541-11D8-8FB9-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>

Wanting to try a bit of CGI stuff, and having a spare G3 in the corner, 
can anyone tell me which engine I should use with OS X?

Thanks,


Mark


From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Aug  3 07:48:51 2004
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 12:48:51 +0100
Subject: Corruption from Images
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040803123550.01cf8998@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:22:38 -0400, pkc <pkc at mac.com> wrote:

>Hi Richard, thanks for that terrific essay. In principle I understand
>what you mean. How can a person tell if an "image object" is actually
>corrupting the stack?  I never got any corruption messages from
>Revolution, and never even thought of corruption until Ken found it.
>Revolution happily ran the stack in the IDE, built both the OS X and
>Windows apps without comment, and the OS X application runs fine.
>The only hint of trouble came when the Windows app had reached it
>destination and couldn't be opened. I wonder if there is any way to
>get a hint of impending trouble during the compilation or during the
>build?

Coming very late to this discussion (after a few days away, I am 
overwhelmed even by digest postings on this list), I'd just like to say 
that I've been through something very similar: for months I was convinced I 
had an issue with the Windows engine, and even got the problem into 
Bugzilla - what used to happen was that an app of mine worked perfectly 
under OSX and Windows XP but crashed consistently in W98 - but it wasn't 
until I asked RR Support to look at it via a paid-for incident that Mark 
Waddingham finally found that one image was corrupted. This was replaced 
and after that everything worked perfectly.

BTW at no time did the Windows engine or IDE report a corrupted stack: 
instead Windows itself crashed, apparently on a 'no resources' error, which 
I don't pretend to understand. During the crash some pretty weird things 
happened, such as invisible stacks becoming visible and the whole screen 
refresh seizing up. Being basically a Mac guy I couldn't make anything of 
these symptoms.

Clearly one could blame Windows for being sensitive to corruption and 
having no error-reporting mechanism, but it still seems weird to me that 
the corruption didn't affect the app under other OSs - certainly there was 
no visual evidence at all.

Nowadays I am always on the alert for these image problems when other 
explanations have failed.

Graham



---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Tue Aug  3 09:03:53 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:03:53 +0200
Subject: Animation library+open source
In-Reply-To: <BD33E7F7.1D1C%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BD33E7F7.1D1C%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9214256A-E54D-11D8-9DFF-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 02.08.2004, at 13:45, Kevin Miller wrote:

>> Would it make sense to open source it?
>
> It is now open source.

correct me if I m wrong, but how can a part of rev be open source 
without a GPL License for rev?

As I understand I can make my scripted code free (open source), but 
every open Source developer has to buy a rev license to write code?
Will they do that? (How knows this guys?)

Is there any intention in RR to make the engine open source?

I m very interested in that, because I m changing my Trainingsmaps? to 
open source.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speadlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From michael.rr at mdmays.com  Tue Aug  3 10:41:33 2004
From: michael.rr at mdmays.com (Michael D Mays)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:41:33 -0500
Subject: Can Rev Print Unicode?
Message-ID: <36E39CA6-E55B-11D8-9412-000A95D7C7E2@mdmays.com>

Can Rev print unicode? And if it can how? I would like to be able to 
print mathmatical operators and such in a line of 'text' such as

  A ? B  (A 'union' B)

I can display the formula with the 'union' character in a field, but 
nothing is printed

Thanks,
Michael

From michael.rr at mdmays.com  Tue Aug  3 10:59:44 2004
From: michael.rr at mdmays.com (Michael D Mays)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:59:44 -0500
Subject: Can Rev Print Unicode?
In-Reply-To: <36E39CA6-E55B-11D8-9412-000A95D7C7E2@mdmays.com>
References: <36E39CA6-E55B-11D8-9412-000A95D7C7E2@mdmays.com>
Message-ID: <C133E56B-E55D-11D8-9412-000A95D7C7E2@mdmays.com>

I do not know what happened. I used Grab to copy an image of the 
operator and pasted it on the card and printed it and the operators in 
the field appeared. ????

It seems that the image's rect must cover the unicode for the unicode 
to print.
??

Michael

On Aug 3, 2004, at 9:41 AM, Michael D Mays wrote:

> Can Rev print unicode? And if it can how? I would like to be able to 
> print mathmatical operators and such in a line of 'text' such as
>
>  A ? B  (A 'union' B)
>
> I can display the formula with the 'union' character in a field, but 
> nothing is printed
>
> Thanks,
> Michael

From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug  3 11:28:27 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:28:27 -0400
Subject: Animation library+open source
In-Reply-To: <9214256A-E54D-11D8-9DFF-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
References: <BD33E7F7.1D1C%kevin@runrev.com>
	<9214256A-E54D-11D8-9DFF-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <C456251A-E561-11D8-93BB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 3, 2004, at 9:03 AM, Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:

> correct me if I m wrong, but how can a part of rev be open source 
> without a GPL License for rev?

The animation library is a stack. Written in Transcript.

>
> As I understand I can make my scripted code free (open source), but 
> every open Source developer has to buy a rev license to write code?
> Will they do that? (How knows this guys?)

You would be able to edit it with Revolution, just like any other stack.

You need to consider that this really means, take it and edit it 
however suits you. This makes anyone with a Rev license have the 
capacity to make something better out of it. It is just a stack, like 
any other.

>
> Is there any intention in RR to make the engine open source?

The engine is not a stack, and is not written in Transcript. Open 
sourcing the engine is a whole different topic, but I wouldn't expect 
that to happen any time soon. The engine is essentially where RunRev 
derives its income.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug  3 12:05:20 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 09:05:20 -0700
Subject: Animation library+open source
In-Reply-To: <9214256A-E54D-11D8-9DFF-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
References: <BD33E7F7.1D1C%kevin@runrev.com>
	<9214256A-E54D-11D8-9DFF-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <410FB7C0.1030600@fourthworld.com>

Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:
> 
> On 02.08.2004, at 13:45, Kevin Miller wrote:
> 
>>> Would it make sense to open source it?
>>
>> It is now open source.
> 
> correct me if I m wrong, but how can a part of rev be open source 
> without a GPL License for rev?
> 
> As I understand I can make my scripted code free (open source), but 
> every open Source developer has to buy a rev license to write code?
> Will they do that? (How knows this guys?)
> 
> Is there any intention in RR to make the engine open source?
> 
> I m very interested in that, because I m changing my Trainingsmaps? to 
> open source.

There may also be merit in dual licensing (see 
<http://www.onlamp.com/pub/wlg/4715>).

Just as one can release open source wares that require a proprietary OS 
to run (like Mozillla on OS X or Windows), there are open source 
licenses that govern components which are free for use within systems 
that may not be.

The MetaCard IDE uses a variant of the X11 license (sometimes called the 
MIT license), but there's also the LGPL ("Lesser GNU Public License") 
and others.

In the US, the creator of a work is the copyright holder and can release 
a work under any terms desired -- you can even make up a new license if 
there isn't one that covers your needs (enforcement, however, may be 
another matter <g>).

While there are competing factions in the open source world with varying 
opinions about licenses, I personally admire the work and dedication of 
Richard Stallman and tend to use licenses GNU.org considers 
"compatible".  A good overview of various open source licenses is at:
<http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html>

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From bill at igame3d.com  Tue Aug  3 12:20:57 2004
From: bill at igame3d.com (william griffin)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:20:57 -0400
Subject: Any Chatters? Revisited
In-Reply-To: <20040803101449.538089300CA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040803101449.538089300CA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <198C4EBD-E569-11D8-936D-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

Catching up on all the list I missed for a month.
As long as one person is in the chat room "runrev" the room will exist 
to join.
If no one is in the room and attempts to join, the room will be created.
Once you see people in the ichat room, you can drag them to your buddy 
list
and iChat provides groups so you can easily create a runrev specific 
group.
This is probably the best method to see when there is activity.

If you are on broadband and happen to leave your machine running,
you can lurk in the room for days and log everything said to keep up to 
date.
I logged three to four months of chats, even while I was asleep.

The ichat room used for iDevGames during last years uDevGames contest
was extremely successful, much alpha, beta, and final testing as well
as idea and knowledge sharing took place, along with lots of laughs.
After a couple of ichat network issues they switched to IRC and the
large community created in ichat disintegrated into only a small 
handful of
hard core geeks, with nothing much to talk about but code.

I'm curious why Tuviah's chatter stacks haven't been improved and 
implemented into a user community builder.
I had put his stack scripts into iGame3D with the hopes of using it as 
a base of community based game dev,
but without anyone on the network to test it and while doing trouble 
shooting I removed them.
It would seem a RunRev based solution to chatting would be the best 
method of
building a real time RunRev community. This could more likely occur 
once something
starts happening in iChat, then folks can know who is online to test 
networking apps made in runrev.

Well I'll be lurking in the chat room, see you there.

Mr Bill


From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Aug  3 12:23:12 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:23:12 -0700
Subject: Bulk mail sorting
In-Reply-To: <20040803160059.03FB89300DA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040803160059.03FB89300DA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110400bd356be62a80@[66.81.133.41]>

Has anyone worked on creating software to sort mail to achieve US 
Post Office bulk rates, in particular sorting by carrier route?

Jim

From nonsanity at fluffandsuch.com  Tue Aug  3 12:30:44 2004
From: nonsanity at fluffandsuch.com (Nonsanity)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 12:30:44 -0400
Subject: Any Chatters? Revisited
In-Reply-To: <198C4EBD-E569-11D8-936D-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
References: <20040803101449.538089300CA@mail.runrev.com>
	<198C4EBD-E569-11D8-936D-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
Message-ID: <410FBDB4.6060307@fluffandsuch.com>

Besides a live chat location, judging by the activity on this mailing 
list, a static web forum would be ideal. There may be one I don't know 
about (if so, share) but if there isn't, this would be a very good thing 
to start.

  ~ Chris Innanen
  ~ Nonsnaity
  ~ iChat/AIM: FluffAndSuch


william griffin wrote:
> Catching up on all the list I missed for a month.
> As long as one person is in the chat room "runrev" the room will exist 
> to join.
> If no one is in the room and attempts to join, the room will be created.
> Once you see people in the ichat room, you can drag them to your buddy list
> and iChat provides groups so you can easily create a runrev specific group.
> This is probably the best method to see when there is activity.
> 
> If you are on broadband and happen to leave your machine running,
> you can lurk in the room for days and log everything said to keep up to 
> date.
> I logged three to four months of chats, even while I was asleep.
> 
> The ichat room used for iDevGames during last years uDevGames contest
> was extremely successful, much alpha, beta, and final testing as well
> as idea and knowledge sharing took place, along with lots of laughs.
> After a couple of ichat network issues they switched to IRC and the
> large community created in ichat disintegrated into only a small handful of
> hard core geeks, with nothing much to talk about but code.
> 
> I'm curious why Tuviah's chatter stacks haven't been improved and 
> implemented into a user community builder.
> I had put his stack scripts into iGame3D with the hopes of using it as a 
> base of community based game dev,
> but without anyone on the network to test it and while doing trouble 
> shooting I removed them.
> It would seem a RunRev based solution to chatting would be the best 
> method of
> building a real time RunRev community. This could more likely occur once 
> something
> starts happening in iChat, then folks can know who is online to test 
> networking apps made in runrev.
> 
> Well I'll be lurking in the chat room, see you there.
> 
> Mr Bill
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug  3 12:34:33 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:34:33 -0400
Subject: Any Chatters? Revisited
In-Reply-To: <198C4EBD-E569-11D8-936D-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
References: <20040803101449.538089300CA@mail.runrev.com>
	<198C4EBD-E569-11D8-936D-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
Message-ID: <003BA416-E56B-11D8-93BB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:20 PM, william griffin wrote:

> I'm curious why Tuviah's chatter stacks haven't been improved and 
> implemented into a user community builder.
> I had put his stack scripts into iGame3D with the hopes of using it as 
> a base of community based game dev,
> but without anyone on the network to test it and while doing trouble 
> shooting I removed them.
> It would seem a RunRev based solution to chatting would be the best 
> method of
> building a real time RunRev community. This could more likely occur 
> once something
> starts happening in iChat, then folks can know who is online to test 
> networking apps made in runrev.

I think a system like that within the IDE would be pretty awesome. Talk 
about immediate feedback. It would be like being able to ask the IDE 
questions and getting a community response.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From briany at qldlearning.com  Tue Aug  3 11:31:51 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:31:51 -0400
Subject: which engine for OS X CGI
In-Reply-To: <6EA1A4A8-E541-11D8-8FB9-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <3E0C133A-E562-11D8-AE9B-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

You'll want the "Darwin" engine. Sorry don't have a URL handy but if 
you can't find on on RunRev.com, it's worth looking on ftp.metacard.com 
sometimes...

> Wanting to try a bit of CGI stuff, and having a spare G3 in the 
> corner, can anyone tell me which engine I should use with OS X?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mark


From index at kenjikojima.com  Tue Aug  3 12:37:42 2004
From: index at kenjikojima.com (Kenji Kojima)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:37:42 -0400
Subject: Save Stack Problem 
In-Reply-To: <C133E56B-E55D-11D8-9412-000A95D7C7E2@mdmays.com>
References: <36E39CA6-E55B-11D8-9412-000A95D7C7E2@mdmays.com>
	<C133E56B-E55D-11D8-9412-000A95D7C7E2@mdmays.com>
Message-ID: <70D22623-E56B-11D8-A920-000D9328738A@kenjikojima.com>

Hi,

I am trying to create a card and save stack using CGI script on Mac OSX.
But I cannot save a stack.

I made a stack "createCd" which had a card and a field,
and set permissions to 777.
CGI script was.

#! /Library/webServer/CGI-Executables/revolution

on startup
	open stack "createCd"
	put the num of cds of this stack &"<br>" after buffer
	put the time into fld 1
	put fld 1 of cd 1 &"<br>" after buffer	
	create cd
	put the num of cds of this stack &"<br>" after buffer
	save stack "createCd"		
	put the result after buffer
	close stack "createCd"	
   	put "Content-Type: text/html" & cr
  	 put "Content-Length:" && the length of buffer & cr & cr
  	 put buffer	
end startup
		

Browser showed
------------------------------
1
12:20 PM
2
can't open stack backup file
------------------------------
CGI script was working and made a card, but could not save a stack.
What is "can't open stack backup file"?

What was wrong?
Thanks,

--
Kenji Kojima
http://www.kenjikojima.com/







From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Tue Aug  3 12:39:17 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:39:17 -0400
Subject: Any Chatters? Revisited
Message-ID: <OF53D14DB3.D9A4A0DE-ON85256EE5.005A7D53@sealedair.com>

> I'm curious why Tuviah's chatter stacks haven't been improved
> and implemented into a user community builder.

I agree. iChat is nice, but the Rev community is very cross-platform. We 
need something that runs on ALL of the supported platforms that RunRev 
supports (with no code changes). It needs to share a common protocol and 
be capable of working from behind firewalls too. We would be like a Borg 
hive, continually working together to make our apps better until the day 
comes that we can no longer discern a difference between the reality 
around us and the code that makes it seem so real.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com


From kee at kagi.com  Tue Aug  3 12:41:26 2004
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:41:26 -0700
Subject: Bulk mail sorting
In-Reply-To: <p06110400bd356be62a80@[66.81.133.41]>
References: <20040803160059.03FB89300DA@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06110400bd356be62a80@[66.81.133.41]>
Message-ID: <F69085F1-E56B-11D8-B44B-000A959B2940@kagi.com>


On Aug 3, 2004, at 9:23 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:

> Has anyone worked on creating software to sort mail to achieve US Post 
> Office bulk rates, in particular sorting by carrier route?

no but the CD the USPS puts out is very easy to parse so if you have 
the data, you can combine with the addresses and then just sort. Should 
be "a simple matter of coding"  :-)  .
Kee


>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug  3 12:49:42 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:49:42 -0400
Subject: Any Chatters? Revisited
In-Reply-To: <OF53D14DB3.D9A4A0DE-ON85256EE5.005A7D53@sealedair.com>
References: <OF53D14DB3.D9A4A0DE-ON85256EE5.005A7D53@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <1DE5813A-E56D-11D8-93BB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:39 PM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> We would be like a Borg
> hive, continually working together to make our apps better until the 
> day
> comes that we can no longer discern a difference between the reality
> around us and the code that makes it seem so real.

OK. Maybe I'm rethinking this.... ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From kee at kagi.com  Tue Aug  3 12:51:23 2004
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:51:23 -0700
Subject: Determining type of drive a file is on
In-Reply-To: <32CFD816-E4DC-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BD33FEF8.299B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<888B64C4-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<C68A5884-E4C1-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<D9F2B1EF-E4CE-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
	<40949F32-E4D2-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<8221459066.20040802155302@ahsoftware.net>
	<9F8C4C02-E4D7-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<566C062E-E4DB-11D8-B798-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
	<32CFD816-E4DC-11D8-A0D2-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <5A10D4F4-E56D-11D8-B44B-000A959B2940@kagi.com>


On Aug 2, 2004, at 4:32 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> On Aug 2, 2004, at 4:26 PM, kee nethery wrote:
>
>> How about:
>> Get a list of all the attached volumes, names and sizes
>> See if the USB drive that you initialized is visible and see if it is 
>> the same size as what you configured it to be.
>> Then see that you are running from that volume.
>> Not fool proof but it's a start.
>> If you have a way to read a specific block on the drive, you could 
>> use that data to provide yet another check. Put a tiny 1K file on the 
>> drive, add your file to the drive. Delete the 1K file. It will look 
>> like there is just your drive but if they duplicate the whole thing 
>> to another USB key, that 1K blank space won't be there.
>
> That sounds like a great idea.  Any suggestions on how to read a 
> specific block on a drive?  Does Rev have a built in way to do this or 
> would it require an external?

No idea how to do it but I don't think it is a USB thing, I think it 
would be an access the disk drive thing and your code would probably 
need to be aware of which OS it was running. Might be custom code to 
extend Rev per platform using standard OS calls, might be some access 
using a shell script. No idea.
Kee


From briany at qldlearning.com  Tue Aug  3 12:52:20 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:52:20 -0400
Subject: Save Stack Problem 
In-Reply-To: <70D22623-E56B-11D8-A920-000D9328738A@kenjikojima.com>
Message-ID: <7C3E6B79-E56D-11D8-AE9B-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Kenji,

My guess is that you don't have write permission to that directory. 
You'll need to save the stack to another directory, or grant write 
access to the CGI-Executables folder, (the latter being a bit of a 
security no-no).

Hope that helps,
Brian

> Hi,
>
> I am trying to create a card and save stack using CGI script on Mac 
> OSX.
> But I cannot save a stack.
>
> I made a stack "createCd" which had a card and a field,
> and set permissions to 777.
> CGI script was.
>
> #! /Library/webServer/CGI-Executables/revolution
>
> on startup
> 	open stack "createCd"
> 	put the num of cds of this stack &"<br>" after buffer
> 	put the time into fld 1
> 	put fld 1 of cd 1 &"<br>" after buffer	
> 	create cd
> 	put the num of cds of this stack &"<br>" after buffer
> 	save stack "createCd"		
> 	put the result after buffer
> 	close stack "createCd"	
>   	put "Content-Type: text/html" & cr
>  	 put "Content-Length:" && the length of buffer & cr & cr
>  	 put buffer	
> end startup
> 		
>
> Browser showed
> ------------------------------
> 1
> 12:20 PM
> 2
> can't open stack backup file
> ------------------------------
> CGI script was working and made a card, but could not save a stack.
> What is "can't open stack backup file"?
>
> What was wrong?
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Kenji Kojima
> http://www.kenjikojima.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug  3 12:56:32 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 09:56:32 -0700
Subject: Any Chatters? Revisited
In-Reply-To: <OF53D14DB3.D9A4A0DE-ON85256EE5.005A7D53@sealedair.com>
References: <OF53D14DB3.D9A4A0DE-ON85256EE5.005A7D53@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <410FC3C0.5050108@fourthworld.com>

Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

>>I'm curious why Tuviah's chatter stacks haven't been improved
>>and implemented into a user community builder.
> 
> I agree. iChat is nice, but the Rev community is very cross-platform.

iChat uses the AIM service, for which there are compatible clients for 
Mac, Win, and AFAIK Linux.

I guess Rev's Irix users may be out of luck. ;)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From pkc at mac.com  Tue Aug  3 13:03:51 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:03:51 -0400
Subject: corruption from images
In-Reply-To: <20040803160059.03FB89300DA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040803160059.03FB89300DA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110402bd3574ffe246@[192.168.2.8]>

Graham Samuels' experience very closely parallels mine, except that 
we couldn't open the app on any Windows machines and so never had a 
chance to crash.  I wonder if our "0,0" error and his "no resources" 
error are the same?

Graham wrote:
>Clearly one could blame Windows for being sensitive to corruption and
>having no error-reporting mechanism...

Yes, let's do!  OS X handled the corruption with grace and 
generosity, while Windows tore up everybody's life over it.  Typical.

From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Aug  3 13:12:31 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 10:12:31 -0700
Subject: Any Chatters? Revisited
In-Reply-To: <OF53D14DB3.D9A4A0DE-ON85256EE5.005A7D53@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <BD35158F.11D28%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com" wrote:

> iChat is nice, but the Rev community is very cross-platform. We
> need something that runs on ALL of the supported platforms that RunRev
> supports (with no code changes).

Seems to me a client that supports multiple services would be useful.  Chipp
Walters introduced me to Fire, a multi-service chat client for OSX.  So far
it has worked well for me with iChat.

  http://fire.sourceforge.net/

Also came across this, though I haven't used it.

  http://www.proteusx.com/

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Tue Aug  3 13:14:18 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:14:18 -0400
Subject: Any Chatters? Revisited
Message-ID: <OF7697BB76.0F247F27-ON85256EE5.005E6937@sealedair.com>

> iChat uses the AIM service, for which there are compatible clients
> for Mac, Win, and AFAIK Linux.
> 
> I guess Rev's Irix users may be out of luck. ;)
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Media Corporation

You say Irix "users" (plural)??? There is actually an Irix port of the 
Linux gAim chat thingie. It works, but its gui looks terrible because of 
font issues. The text is unreadable. Irix aside though, I primarily use 
Windows 2000 from behind a corporate firewall. Aim is blocked. Streaming 
is blocked. Downloading MP3 or WAV files is blocked. It's like a giant 
"fun filter" to force work to happen. Anyway, as Troy suggested, something 
built-in to the dev environment would be great. And having it communicate 
over the standard port 80 with a new rev-chat-specific protocol would 
accommodate the firewall requirement and prevent it from being filtered 
out.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Tue Aug  3 13:30:57 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:30:57 -0400
Subject: Any Chatters? Revisited
In-Reply-To: <410FC3C0.5050108@fourthworld.com>
References: <OF53D14DB3.D9A4A0DE-ON85256EE5.005A7D53@sealedair.com>
	<410FC3C0.5050108@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E180DD7A-E572-11D8-B575-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Check out AIM's web site: there is a Java client that runs from inside 
a web browser.

Very cross-platform (I think I've seen it in use under Solaris, for 
example).

On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:56, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
>
>>> I'm curious why Tuviah's chatter stacks haven't been improved
>>> and implemented into a user community builder.
>> I agree. iChat is nice, but the Rev community is very cross-platform.
>
> iChat uses the AIM service, for which there are compatible clients for 
> Mac, Win, and AFAIK Linux.
>
> I guess Rev's Irix users may be out of luck. ;)
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________
>  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



________________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer
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From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  3 14:30:03 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:30:03 -0400
Subject: Any Chatters? Revisited
In-Reply-To: <1DE5813A-E56D-11D8-93BB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <OF53D14DB3.D9A4A0DE-ON85256EE5.005A7D53@sealedair.com>
	<1DE5813A-E56D-11D8-93BB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <22FE6CCC-E57B-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Resistance is futile. ;-)

M
On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:49 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:39 PM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
>
>> We would be like a Borg
>> hive, continually working together to make our apps better until the 
>> day
>> comes that we can no longer discern a difference between the reality
>> around us and the code that makes it seem so real.
>
> OK. Maybe I'm rethinking this.... ;-)
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  3 14:57:26 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:57:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can Rev Print Unicode?
In-Reply-To: <36E39CA6-E55B-11D8-9412-000A95D7C7E2@mdmays.com>
Message-ID: <20040803185726.54416.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael D Mays <michael.rr at mdmays.com> wrote:
> Can Rev print unicode? And if it can how? I would
> like to be able to 
> print mathmatical operators and such in a line of
> 'text' such as
> 
>   A ?? B  (A 'union' B)
> 
> I can display the formula with the 'union' character
> in a field, but 
> nothing is printed
> 
> Thanks,
> Michael
> 

Hi Michael,

Have you tried using the revPrintField command to
print the contents of the field ?
Also, is this on Windows, Mac, ... ?

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
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From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  3 15:00:28 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:00:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Error message running "Drawers"
In-Reply-To: <410E012B.8050203@wilddsl.net.au>
Message-ID: <20040803190029.45674.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Bruce Laidlaw <wbl at wilddsl.net.au> wrote:
> Richmond,
> 
> I downloaded your "Drawers" stack but get an error
> message:
> 
>          executing at 6:44:26 PM
> Type    Handler: can't find handler
> Object    OPEN
> Line    drawer "DROP"
> Hint    drawer
> 
> I'm running Rev 2.0 on Mac OSX 10.2.8
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Bruce
> 

Hi Bruce,

The 'drawer' command was introduced in Revolution 2.1
so the stack won't work under Revolution 2.0

Sorry to disappoint you,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  3 15:11:17 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:11:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to add Database Library to CGI engine?
In-Reply-To: <F829D524-E4CB-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20040803191117.47998.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Andre Garzia <soapdog at mac.com> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> Uh... my MC engine for Linux is failing on
> revOpenDatabase, I assume 
> this is due to a lack of the library itself for the
> error is like 
> handler unknown... is there any trick to add DB
> support to a CGI? 
> Man... I should know better...
> 
> andre
> 

Hi Andre,

The last published Revolution cgi-engines can be found
at :
<ftp://ftp.runrev.com/pub/revolution/downloads/engines/2.0/cgi>

These should support revdb calls ; the only tricky
part may be that you'll have to copy the database
drivers from a full Linux distribution, and use the
revSetDatabaseDriverPath command to point to the right
location.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
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From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  3 15:16:29 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:16:29 -0400
Subject: How to set version number for Win standalone?
In-Reply-To: <20040803185726.54416.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040803185726.54416.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9F6BDBB0-E581-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

I am having a problem with the displayed version number in my Windows 
standalone, created using v 2.1.2 on Mac OSX and then transferred to 
Win XP.

The following is what I did when I set up the standalone in 
Distribution Builder, Windows tab:


File description:  Version 1.0

Then clicked button: other version info
and entered the following

Comments: Version 1.0
File version: Version 1.0
Product version:  Version 1.0

Built the distribution, took it to Win XP and then examined it under 
Win XP


When I simply look at file on Win XP desktop, says Version 1.0 (dimmed 
text) below name.
With a mouse rollover over the filename the following is displayed:
		Description: Version 1.0
		File version 2.4.2.1             <<<----Huh????

If I then right click on the icon and select properties:
Right click--> properties-->
GENERAL tab
Type of file: application
Description: Version 1.0

VERSION tab
File version 2.4.2.1                            <<<<---Huh???
Description: Version 1.0
In scrolling list
Highlighted (selected item)   What is shown
Comments: Version 1.0
File version: Version 1.0
Product version:  Version 1.0

Where is the version 2.4.2.1 coming from and, more importantly, how do 
I get rid of it?
This was reported as a bug by one of my beta testers (who was trying to 
figure out what version he had in order to report another problem) and 
I'll be darned if I can figure out how to fix it.

Thanks!

M







From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Tue Aug  3 15:28:10 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:28:10 EDT
Subject: How to set version number for Win standalone?
Message-ID: <1dc.27d7f04d.2e41414a@aol.com>

This refers to the metaCard version upon which Rev is built. I am unaware  of 
a way of modifying it.

/H
Hugh Senior
The Flexible Learning  Company
Web: www.FlexibleLearning.com
E: h at flexiblelearning.com
T/F:  +44(0)1483.27 87 27
 
 

>Where is the version 2.4.2.1 coming from and, more importantly, how  do 
>I get rid of it?
>This was reported as a bug by one of my beta  testers (who was trying to 
>figure out what version he had in order to  report another problem) and 
>I'll be darned if I can figure out how to  fix it.



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  3 15:29:59 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:29:59 -0400
Subject: How to set version number for Win standalone?
In-Reply-To: <1dc.27d7f04d.2e41414a@aol.com>
References: <1dc.27d7f04d.2e41414a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <81E61C56-E583-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Ok.  At least I can stop trying. Thanks.

M

On Aug 3, 2004, at 3:28 PM, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:

> This refers to the metaCard version upon which Rev is built. I am 
> unaware  of
> a way of modifying it.
>
> /H
> Hugh Senior
> The Flexible Learning  Company
> Web: www.FlexibleLearning.com
> E: h at flexiblelearning.com
> T/F:  +44(0)1483.27 87 27
>
>
>
>> Where is the version 2.4.2.1 coming from and, more importantly, how  
>> do
>> I get rid of it?
>> This was reported as a bug by one of my beta  testers (who was trying 
>> to
>> figure out what version he had in order to  report another problem) 
>> and
>> I'll be darned if I can figure out how to  fix it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From nonsanity at fluffandsuch.com  Tue Aug  3 15:40:01 2004
From: nonsanity at fluffandsuch.com (Nonsanity)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 15:40:01 -0400
Subject: Any Chatters? Revisited
In-Reply-To: <1DE5813A-E56D-11D8-93BB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <OF53D14DB3.D9A4A0DE-ON85256EE5.005A7D53@sealedair.com>
	<1DE5813A-E56D-11D8-93BB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <410FEA11.9020000@fluffandsuch.com>

 > On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:39 PM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
 >
 > We would be like a Borg
 > hive, continually working together to make our apps better until the
 > day comes that we can no longer discern a difference between the
 > reality around us and the code that makes it seem so real.


Puts me in mind of Second Life (www.secondlife.com), a Windows and Mac 
3D world simulation. It happens to be the focus of my first Rev project. 
The game has auctions for its (virtual) land and there have been 
discussions in SL over how those are changing. ("Land Barons" buying up 
all the land, prices climbing, sky is falling, yadda, yadda, yadda...)

My project parses through the HTML auction result pages to strip out all 
the available information and formats it for input into a MySQL 
database. Then I can query the DB from Rev to datamine for interesting 
information.

Right now, the stack only parses and queries... But I see that the tools 
to do EVERY step are in there. I'll have to code it to fetch the HTML 
pages and add the data to the DB to keep the data up-to-date.

Anyone have a prefab data graphing tool? If a great one exists I might 
use it, but I've got no problem making my own. I've done it before in 
Hypercard, so it should be trivial in Revolution.

Oh and if anyone checks out Second Life (7-day free trial, one-time 
$9.95 price to play for life) look me up there. I'm "Tiger Crossing". 
Its combination of graphics and scripting might feel very familiar to 
Rev users, though the graphics are 3D and the coding is in a different 
language...

  ~ Chris Innanen
  ~ Nonsanity
  ~ ( Tiger Crossing )




From index at kenjikojima.com  Tue Aug  3 15:41:45 2004
From: index at kenjikojima.com (Kenji Kojima)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:41:45 -0400
Subject: Save Stack Problem 
In-Reply-To: <7C3E6B79-E56D-11D8-AE9B-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
References: <7C3E6B79-E56D-11D8-AE9B-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <26F22CEF-E585-11D8-A920-000D9328738A@kenjikojima.com>

Brian,
Thanks, your advices.

It does not work on Mac OSX, but works on Windows.

I made a new stack and put it into the CGI-Executables folder. And 
tried CGI script, but did not work.
How can I make grant write access to the CGI-Executables folder? I 
wanted to make a address book which was written from Web browser.

I installed same CGI script and a stack onto Windows XP and Apache 2 
server.
I changed only one line that was:
#! C:/Apache Group/apache2/bin/revolution.exe
And did not set permissions of the stack.
It worked.

I want to use Mac OSX, because Windows server is not mine.
Can anybody explain why I cannot save a stack on Mac OSX?

Thanks,
--
Kenji Kojima
http://www.kenjikojima.com/



On Aug 3, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:

> Kenji,
>
> My guess is that you don't have write permission to that directory. 
> You'll need to save the stack to another directory, or grant write 
> access to the CGI-Executables folder, (the latter being a bit of a 
> security no-no).
>
> Hope that helps,
> Brian
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am trying to create a card and save stack using CGI script on Mac 
>> OSX.
>> But I cannot save a stack.
>>
>> I made a stack "createCd" which had a card and a field,
>> and set permissions to 777.
>> CGI script was.
>>
>> #! /Library/webServer/CGI-Executables/revolution
>>
>> on startup
>> 	open stack "createCd"
>> 	put the num of cds of this stack &"<br>" after buffer
>> 	put the time into fld 1
>> 	put fld 1 of cd 1 &"<br>" after buffer	
>> 	create cd
>> 	put the num of cds of this stack &"<br>" after buffer
>> 	save stack "createCd"		
>> 	put the result after buffer
>> 	close stack "createCd"	
>>   	put "Content-Type: text/html" & cr
>>  	 put "Content-Length:" && the length of buffer & cr & cr
>>  	 put buffer	
>> end startup
>> 		
>>
>> Browser showed
>> ------------------------------
>> 1
>> 12:20 PM
>> 2
>> can't open stack backup file
>> ------------------------------
>> CGI script was working and made a card, but could not save a stack.
>> What is "can't open stack backup file"?
>>
>> What was wrong?
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Kenji Kojima
>> http://www.kenjikojima.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Tue Aug  3 15:42:16 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:42:16 -0400
Subject: Bulk mail sorting
In-Reply-To: <F69085F1-E56B-11D8-B44B-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <20040803193807.2486F30AC3@mail.rtl.org>

If you are trying to get the best possible rates you need a lot more than
CR. You also have to have your addresses PAVE  certified and CASS processed.
Barcodes for labels and tray/sack tags need to be generated. Government
style reports created, and sorting rules beyond measure. Just take a look at
the bulk rate section of the Domestic Mail Manual at the USPS site. The USPS
does provide data bases (at a subscription cost) and the software created
using the tables needs to be approved by a post office testing procedure.
It's all very ugly. We plan on attempting it sometime in the future but for
now we use commercial software. A couple of providers are Melissa Data and
Datatech Smartsoft.

If you plan to go ahead let me know as we may be able to work together as
this is a future project for us also...

Dave LeYanna

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of kee nethery
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 12:41 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Bulk mail sorting


On Aug 3, 2004, at 9:23 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:

> Has anyone worked on creating software to sort mail to achieve US Post 
> Office bulk rates, in particular sorting by carrier route?

no but the CD the USPS puts out is very easy to parse so if you have the
data, you can combine with the addresses and then just sort. Should be "a
simple matter of coding"  :-)  .
Kee


>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From mark at maseurope.net  Tue Aug  3 16:03:01 2004
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:03:01 +0100
Subject: which engine for OS X CGI
In-Reply-To: <20040803191417.3F7919300AD@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040803191417.3F7919300AD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1F6E753C-E588-11D8-BF0E-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>

Brian, thanks, I'll go looking...

Cheers,

Mark


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug  3 16:17:24 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 13:17:24 -0700
Subject: How to set version number for Win standalone?
In-Reply-To: <1dc.27d7f04d.2e41414a@aol.com>
References: <1dc.27d7f04d.2e41414a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <410FF2D4.2060900@fourthworld.com>

FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:

> This refers to the metaCard version upon which Rev is built. I am unaware  of 
> a way of modifying it.
>
>>Where is the version 2.4.2.1 coming from and, more importantly, how  do 
>>I get rid of it?
>>This was reported as a bug by one of my beta  testers (who was trying to 
>>figure out what version he had in order to  report another problem) and 
>>I'll be darned if I can figure out how to  fix it.

The standalone builder in versions prior to Rev 2.2 had never modified 
the binary form of the version number, only the textual form.  In Rev 
2.2 and later this is fixed, thanks to Monte's dilligence.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  3 16:18:15 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:18:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Save Stack Problem 
In-Reply-To: <26F22CEF-E585-11D8-A920-000D9328738A@kenjikojima.com>
Message-ID: <20040803201815.35408.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kenji Kojima <index at kenjikojima.com> wrote:
> Brian,
> Thanks, your advices.
> 
> It does not work on Mac OSX, but works on Windows.
> 
> I made a new stack and put it into the
> CGI-Executables folder. And 
> tried CGI script, but did not work.
> How can I make grant write access to the
> CGI-Executables folder? I 
> wanted to make a address book which was written from
> Web browser.
> 
> I installed same CGI script and a stack onto Windows
> XP and Apache 2 
> server.
> I changed only one line that was:
> #! C:/Apache Group/apache2/bin/revolution.exe
> And did not set permissions of the stack.
> It worked.
> 
> I want to use Mac OSX, because Windows server is not
> mine.
> Can anybody explain why I cannot save a stack on Mac
> OSX?
> 
> Thanks,
> --
> Kenji Kojima
> 

Hi Kenji,

It is probably working on Windows because Windows is
not as strict as MacOSX when it comes to permissions.

The reason it fails at the point of making a backup
file, is that when the engine saves a stack, it first
makes a copy of the original stack, so that if
corruption occurs, you can retrieve your last saved
version from thart backup file.
But if the engine doesn't have the right to write
files in the directory where the stack resides, it
cannot create the backup.

It is strongly recommended not to give write access to
(a folder in) the cgi-excecutables folder. It is best
to keep the data stack in a separate folder that isn't
shared with the rest of the world, and set the right
owner and permissions.

You cazn do this from the Finder using the 'Get Info'
item in the 'File' menu. In this window you will see a
section 'Owner & Privileges' where you can change the
owner (if you happen to be the administrator of the
machine)

If my memory serves me well, you'll want to set the
owner to the internal 'www' user, which is what the
web server process Apache is running as.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
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From index at kenjikojima.com  Tue Aug  3 16:23:04 2004
From: index at kenjikojima.com (Kenji Kojima)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:23:04 -0400
Subject: Save Stack Problem 
In-Reply-To: <20040803201815.35408.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040803201815.35408.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ECC86DD4-E58A-11D8-A920-000D9328738A@kenjikojima.com>

Jan
I will try.

Thanks,
--
Kenji Kojima
http://www.kenjikojima.com/


On Aug 3, 2004, at 4:18 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> --- Kenji Kojima <index at kenjikojima.com> wrote:
>> Brian,
>> Thanks, your advices.
>>
>> It does not work on Mac OSX, but works on Windows.
>>
>> I made a new stack and put it into the
>> CGI-Executables folder. And
>> tried CGI script, but did not work.
>> How can I make grant write access to the
>> CGI-Executables folder? I
>> wanted to make a address book which was written from
>> Web browser.
>>
>> I installed same CGI script and a stack onto Windows
>> XP and Apache 2
>> server.
>> I changed only one line that was:
>> #! C:/Apache Group/apache2/bin/revolution.exe
>> And did not set permissions of the stack.
>> It worked.
>>
>> I want to use Mac OSX, because Windows server is not
>> mine.
>> Can anybody explain why I cannot save a stack on Mac
>> OSX?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Kenji Kojima
>>
>
> Hi Kenji,
>
> It is probably working on Windows because Windows is
> not as strict as MacOSX when it comes to permissions.
>
> The reason it fails at the point of making a backup
> file, is that when the engine saves a stack, it first
> makes a copy of the original stack, so that if
> corruption occurs, you can retrieve your last saved
> version from thart backup file.
> But if the engine doesn't have the right to write
> files in the directory where the stack resides, it
> cannot create the backup.
>
> It is strongly recommended not to give write access to
> (a folder in) the cgi-excecutables folder. It is best
> to keep the data stack in a separate folder that isn't
> shared with the rest of the world, and set the right
> owner and permissions.
>
> You cazn do this from the Finder using the 'Get Info'
> item in the 'File' menu. In this window you will see a
> section 'Owner & Privileges' where you can change the
> owner (if you happen to be the administrator of the
> machine)
>
> If my memory serves me well, you'll want to set the
> owner to the internal 'www' user, which is what the
> web server process Apache is running as.
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From index at kenjikojima.com  Tue Aug  3 16:46:01 2004
From: index at kenjikojima.com (Kenji Kojima)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:46:01 -0400
Subject: Save Stack Problem 
In-Reply-To: <20040803201815.35408.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040803201815.35408.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <211B73B5-E58E-11D8-A920-000D9328738A@kenjikojima.com>

Jan,

> It is strongly recommended not to give write access to
> (a folder in) the cgi-excecutables folder. It is best
> to keep the data stack in a separate folder that isn't
> shared with the rest of the world, and set the right
> owner and permissions.
>
> You cazn do this from the Finder using the 'Get Info'
> item in the 'File' menu. In this window you will see a
> section 'Owner & Privileges' where you can change the
> owner (if you happen to be the administrator of the
> machine)

Yes, I did.
I've been struggling this since last week.
Thanks you very much,
--
Kenji Kojima
http://www.kenjikojima.com/




From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  3 17:14:18 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:14:18 -0400
Subject: How to set version number for Win standalone?
In-Reply-To: <410FF2D4.2060900@fourthworld.com>
References: <1dc.27d7f04d.2e41414a@aol.com> <410FF2D4.2060900@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1494795A-E592-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

If the rest of my stacks (non-standalone, driven from the standalone 
splash screen) are all created in version 2.1.2, would there be any 
negative consequence to my using 2.2 to create the standalone that 
drives the others? (The standalone has no content except for a card 
that says "Loading. Please wait.")  I can't think of any problems this 
would introduce but wanted to be sure.

Thanks.

M


On Aug 3, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> The standalone builder in versions prior to Rev 2.2 had never modified 
> the binary form of the version number, only the textual form.  In Rev 
> 2.2 and later this is fixed, thanks to Monte's dilligence.


From pkc at mac.com  Tue Aug  3 17:22:19 2004
From: pkc at mac.com (pkc)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:22:19 -0400
Subject: chat client
In-Reply-To: <20040803191418.2A1A59300A9@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040803191418.2A1A59300A9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110400bd35b0bfe32d@[192.168.2.8]>

Scott Rossi wrote;
>
>Seems to me a client that supports multiple services would be useful.  Chipp
>Walters introduced me to Fire, a multi-service chat client for OSX.  So far
>it has worked well for me with iChat.
>
>   http://fire.sourceforge.net/
>
>Also came across this, though I haven't used it.
>
>   http://www.proteusx.com/
>


I've used all those, and Adium (AIM only).  If you need to include 
Yahoo chat for some reason, these are the choices for Mac users.  The 
Fire bunch was at it first and then have progressed from a pleasant 
and imaginative application that didn't work to an even more pleasant 
and imaginative one that does. Proteus is alright too, but they have 
been following Fire so my sympathies are with Fire.

But if you don't really need Yahoo (do you?), Netscape will run 
across AIM and ICQ, which is marginally more useful.

I have put Tuvah's stack into several applications and it works like 
a charm.  Very simple. Everybody can use it to make their own 
clients. But it is P2P, somebody has to run the server all the time 
(or a tracker, anyway).

From moe2 at shaw.ca  Tue Aug  3 17:17:19 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 14:17:19 -0700
Subject: unresponsive menus
Message-ID: <BD354EEF.6B13%moe2@shaw.ca>

im an old HC?er, using OS 9 on an iMac. i have just downloaded the RR trial
version. RR opens fine. i select the ?Help? menu
... then i see menuItem  ?Documentation   cmd-??
so i try cmd-? ... nothing happens
but  cmd-shift-?  works ... is this a bug?

i see there is no ?checkmark? beside the menuItem ?Documentation? in ?Help?
menu when the ?Documentation? window is open. is this a bug?
... the menuItems in the ?View? menu have checkmarks!

so then i select menuItem ?Transcript Dictionary? in menu ?Help?  ...
nothing happens. is this a bug?

i close the Documentation window. select menuItem ?Transcript Dictionary? in
menu ?Help? ... this works ... and very nice too i might add ... but no
checkMark beside the menuItem. is this a bug?

then i select menuItem ?Documentation? in the ?Help? menu
   ... nothing happens ... is this a bug?

is someone going to address these in the current beta version ?

moe


From michael.rr at mdmays.com  Tue Aug  3 17:28:56 2004
From: michael.rr at mdmays.com (Michael D Mays)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:28:56 -0500
Subject: Can Rev Print Unicode?
In-Reply-To: <20040803185726.54416.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040803185726.54416.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <201D7878-E594-11D8-9412-000A95D7C7E2@mdmays.com>

I'm on a Mac.

revprintField prints everything in the filed except for the unicode.

The way I put the unicode into the field is via Apple's Character 
Palette.

Michael
On Aug 3, 2004, at 1:57 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> --- Michael D Mays <michael.rr at mdmays.com> wrote:
>> Can Rev print unicode? And if it can how? I would
>> like to be able to
>> print mathmatical operators and such in a line of
>> 'text' such as
>>
>>   A ?? B  (A 'union' B)
>>
>> I can display the formula with the 'union' character
>> in a field, but
>> nothing is printed
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Michael
>>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Have you tried using the revPrintField command to
> print the contents of the field ?
> Also, is this on Windows, Mac, ... ?
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.


From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Aug  3 17:49:34 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 18:49:34 -0300
Subject: How to add Database Library to CGI engine?
In-Reply-To: <20040803191117.47998.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040803191117.47998.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01FAAFD2-E597-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 3, 2004, at 4:11 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> Hi Andre,
>
> The last published Revolution cgi-engines can be found
> at :
> <ftp://ftp.runrev.com/pub/revolution/downloads/engines/2.0/cgi>
>
> These should support revdb calls ; the only tricky
> part may be that you'll have to copy the database
> drivers from a full Linux distribution, and use the
> revSetDatabaseDriverPath command to point to the right
> location.
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>

auhahahuahuahuhuahuahu Thank Jan, but in the last 24h I created (with 
lots of help from Trevor) a php DB conduit, protocol and xml 
transportation for my stacks.... It's almost a Database Query Builder 
replacement by now, in couple days it will be... uhahuahahau damn that 
handler... I never knew I needed to set something up besides my 
externals prop.

Thanks Jan
Andre



>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  3 18:29:09 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:29:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: since I am in Hell, let's all have fun... we might end with a
	case study.
In-Reply-To: <ACABDCEB-E4D2-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20040803222909.9889.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Andre Garzia <soapdog at mac.com> wrote:

> We Brazilians think that just because you're in
> Hell it's no motive to spoil good fun or
spectacle.

why don't you give up the machines and go back 
to entertainment? host your own forum.
if anyone can squeeze humor out of a difference
engine...

> the url for the blog is
> http://www.wecode.org/24hRush

oh, i get it. write code and comedy
at the same time.
do you use the send in time command?
usted es el hombre.  
(non-Portugese in-joke)

> Andre Alves Garzia <eth> 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org

p.s.
all i drink is agua de arroz
but malt and Malta seem like a possibility..

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
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From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Aug  3 19:52:08 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:22:08 +0930
Subject: How to set version number for Win standalone?
In-Reply-To: <1494795A-E592-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHMEMEENAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


>
>If the rest of my stacks (non-standalone, driven from the standalone
>splash screen) are all created in version 2.1.2, would there be any
>negative consequence to my using 2.2 to create the standalone that
>drives the others? (The standalone has no content except for a card
>that says "Loading. Please wait.")  I can't think of any problems this
>would introduce but wanted to be sure.
>

This won't be a problem. You will need to upgrade your icons to include the
9 images rather than the single image of pre Rev 2.2. It will look better
too ;-)

Cheers

--
  Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
  Sweat Technologies

  InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
  http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  3 20:24:31 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:24:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Animation library - libRMC
In-Reply-To: <BD351083.2411%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <20040804002431.88735.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>


thanks Malte,

the next question: can the animation be synced
with MIDI or audio sound?

--- Malte Brill <malte.brill at t-online.de> wrote:

> >do you move multiple objects simultaneously?
> 
> Yes, I do. The main concept is to have handlers
> that calculate the next
> point on the path. So if you call the handlers
> just once it will move the
> object to the next point. You can easiely
> create a handler that calls itself
> in a send in time structure.
> 
> In this handler you call the handlers that
> animate your objects.
> You can have all animations in one place if you
> like. (mind that you must
> start using stack "libRMC" to make it work.)
> 
> e.g. in a button:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   if the flag of me is empty then
>     set the flag of me to -1
>   end if
>   set the flag of me to the flag of me*-1
>   hereWeGo
> end mouseUp
> 
> on hereWeGo
>   lock screen
>   send moveCircular to img "myImage"
>   send moveElliptical to grc "myGraphic"
>   send moveLinear to fld "myField"
>   unlock screen
>   if the flag of me=1 then
>     send hereWeGo to me in 4 milliseconds
>   end if
> end hereWeGo
> 
> Now you can use the inspector and set the
> custom properties created by the
> handlers.
> 
> There will be a custom property set
> moveCircular for image "myImage" with
> the following properties:
> 
> centerX - the x location of the circular paths
> center point
> centerY - the y location
> isAngle - the arcAngle
> isRadius - the radius of the circle
> step     - the speed and direction the object
> moves on the path
> 
> Each handler creates its own Custom properties
> set, so its easy to play with
> it. :-)
> 
> Of course you can set these properties by
> script:
> 
> e.g. 
> 
> set the moveCircular["isRadius"] of img
> "myImage" to 80
> set the moveCircular["step"] of img "myImage"
> to -0.5
> 
> If you happen to find the time, download my
> ERCSneak preview stack to see
> libRMC in action.
> 
> I?ll be updating libRMC from time to time (next
> update will follow at the
> end of August)

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
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From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  3 20:28:58 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040803191418.2A1A59300A9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040804002858.75270.qmail@web40507.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Developers,

After a lot of discussion about the need of
pdf in this platform, i get surprised that no
interest showed to this handler to export
the vector graphics of a stack as pdf.
It's a humble start to learn to write pdf
from within RR/MC.

I just ask for feedback on PDF readers error messages
on linux and mac os x.

Just in case that the original message
get lost in the mail, i'll post here again:

on Sun, 25 Jul 2004 
Alejandro Tejada wrote:
    
Hi Developers,

Download the stack "vector2pdf":

_http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/vector2pdf.zip_
<http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/vector2pdf.zip>

This shows a handler to export vector graphics as
pdf. When Acrobat Reader 5 opens the file, it still 
shows the message "Rebuilding reference table", 
but at least the file opens... :-))

Inform to the mail list about any incompabilities
and error messages with Acrobat 6 and Readers from
Mac OS X and Linux.

If you want to help to write the code needed to 
write text and images with this handler, download
the PDF reference manual. Look in Google for
"PDF reference manual".

Thanks a lot to Richard Gaskin for his help with 
the colornames funtions.

al



=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/
Search the mail list:
http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi


		
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From Revinfo1155 at aol.com  Tue Aug  3 21:41:10 2004
From: Revinfo1155 at aol.com (Revinfo1155 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:41:10 -0400
Subject: Button script for "save as"
Message-ID: <0DE2CD2D.472B3413.3ED9C1B5@aol.com>

I need a button script that accomplishes the same thing as the "save as " in the file menu. I tryed scripting around the ask file command but I'm leaving something out as it will not create the file. Any help to get me on the right path will be appreciated.

jack

From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Aug  3 21:54:27 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:54:27 +1000
Subject: Button script for "save as"
In-Reply-To: <0DE2CD2D.472B3413.3ED9C1B5@aol.com>
References: <0DE2CD2D.472B3413.3ED9C1B5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <37F62E84-E5B9-11D8-8B9C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

You want to save a copy of your stack under another name?

   ask file "Save stack as:"
   put it into newName
   if newName is empty then exit to top
   save this stack as newName
   put the fileName of this stack into tCheck
   answer "Stack saved to file: " & tCheck

The revMenuBar uses this:
     revSaveAs the short name of the topStack,false

Cheers,
Sarah


On 4 Aug 2004, at 11:42 am, Revinfo1155 at aol.com wrote:

> I need a button script that accomplishes the same thing as the "save 
> as " in the file menu. I tryed scripting around the ask file command 
> but I'm leaving something out as it will not create the file. Any help 
> to get me on the right path will be appreciated.
>
> jack


From stephenmcnutt at mac.com  Tue Aug  3 22:02:37 2004
From: stephenmcnutt at mac.com (Stephen Paul McNutt)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:02:37 -0400
Subject: How do I allow quotation marks in input text?
Message-ID: <5BCFC3F0-E5BA-11D8-AE9B-003065B40FBA@mac.com>

I've got a field into which users enter questions for a game, but 
single and double quotation marks don't display properly later when 
they appear in the game.  They become boxes.  Is this a font issue?  
I've tried several fonts.  I thought it was because the quotation marks 
were reserved characters, but they don't end the display of the string 
as I'd expect if they were.


From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Tue Aug  3 22:07:47 2004
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 22:07:47 -0400
Subject: Corrupted Files in OS X
Message-ID: <14E518D2-E5BB-11D8-ABB1-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>

Hello everyone,

I apologize in advance if this, being observed with MC, is not directly 
relevant to Rev, but I suspect it is.

A week or so ago I wrote in about corrupted MC stack files, where a 
tilde (~) was being appended to the mc extension of the file residing 
in the Mac OS folder of the application package of a standalone (what a 
mouthful that was...).  One of the list members, Wouter, responded that 
mc~ files are temps or backups the engine makes when there is a crash 
or corruption.  In my case, it appears that the problem was caused by 
an attempt to write output to the Shared folder.  Redirecting output to 
another folder within the current account fixed it.

My question now is whether it is possible to write to the Shared 
folder.  It has read-write permission assigned to everyone.  So, why 
the problem?

	Gregory Lypny
	__________________________
	Associate Professor of Finance
	John Molson School of Business
	Concordia University
	Montreal, Quebec
	Canada


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  3 22:34:52 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:34:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: MoireX 2.0
In-Reply-To: <20040804015236.A49BF93008D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040804023452.97054.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com>

on Sun Aug 1 2004
MisterX wrote:

>Hi again, I updated the links,
>Added the executable...

>Made a couple last changes to the stack regarding the
>cursor...

>and a few more tricks ;)

Great work! Xavier :-))

I'll like that the instructions were
in a flat color. Multicolored letters
are somewhat difficult to read over some 
colored backgrounds

Would you include the handlers to
export the vector graphics as svg,adobe
ilustrator or pdf?
In this way the user could have the option to
export the screen content.

By the way, the beautiful radial gradations, 
Are vectors graphics too?

Keep up your good work!

al

=====
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http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/
Search the mail list:
http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi


		
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From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Tue Aug  3 22:41:31 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:41:31 -0400
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
Message-ID: <OF4C938D95.C27C1D52-ON85256EE6.000D8180@sealedair.com>

> I just ask for feedback on PDF readers error messages
> on linux and mac os x

Alejandro,

I for one am very appreciative of your work in this area. PDF output needs 
to become as easy as printing. As a matter of fact, that is one way of 
getting a PDF out of a Rev stack (if you own Adobe Acrobat - not reader). 
That is a costly solution, and cannot be bundled as a part of our own 
creations, making it even more important to achieve this capability within 
Rev.

I tested your "vector2pdf" with Acrobat 5 (full) and Acrobat Reader 6 on Win2000. In both cases the 
PDF files opened and displayed correct color filled objects. I look 
forward to text functionality, even in its simplest form would be SOOOO 
useful! Let me know if I can assist with testing or providing sample PDF 
files created with various programs.

Thanks.
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug  3 22:45:02 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:45:02 -0400
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <OF4C938D95.C27C1D52-ON85256EE6.000D8180@sealedair.com>
References: <OF4C938D95.C27C1D52-ON85256EE6.000D8180@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <489529CE-E5C0-11D8-ADCC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 3, 2004, at 10:41 PM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> As a matter of fact, that is one way of
> getting a PDF out of a Rev stack (if you own Adobe Acrobat - not 
> reader).

Or, a Mac.  ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Tue Aug  3 22:55:43 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:55:43 -0400
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
Message-ID: <OFED6E5182.44A926ED-ON85256EE6.000F3FDD@sealedair.com>

>> As a matter of fact, that is one way of
>> getting a PDF out of a Rev stack (if you own Adobe Acrobat - not
>> reader).
> 
> Or, a Mac.  ;-)
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.

Yet another cost-prohibitive factor.   ;-p
Also, did you know that PDF files from the rendering engine bundled in OS 
X are not Adobe compliant? For simple document exchange, they are ok. but 
in commercial prepress we have to rely on Adobe Distiller to convert 
postscript files to a usable format.

~Roger


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug  3 23:05:43 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 23:05:43 -0400
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <OFED6E5182.44A926ED-ON85256EE6.000F3FDD@sealedair.com>
References: <OFED6E5182.44A926ED-ON85256EE6.000F3FDD@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <2C4BF54A-E5C3-11D8-ADCC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 3, 2004, at 10:55 PM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> Yet another cost-prohibitive factor.   ;-p
> Also, did you know that PDF files from the rendering engine bundled in 
> OS
> X are not Adobe compliant? For simple document exchange, they are ok. 
> but
> in commercial prepress we have to rely on Adobe Distiller to convert
> postscript files to a usable format.

Oh yeah. I have Acrobat Pro for those instances too. I know what you 
mean. But the ability to just print a pretty decent PDF from anything 
that can print is pretty handy.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Aug  4 00:10:39 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 23:10:39 -0500
Subject: rawkeydown & rawkeyup (was : 2 more questions aboutoperationson
 text in fields)
In-Reply-To: <410EB071.121546D6@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <410E62C1.90F3C959@Club-Internet.fr>
	<410E6D6B.EE880599@Club-Internet.fr> <410E8001.7060300@hyperactivesw.com>
	<410E8E6E.2736B3EC@Club-Internet.fr> <410E9B86.9080908@hyperactivesw.com>
	<410EB071.121546D6@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <411061BF.2010409@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/2/04 4:21 PM, jbv wrote:

 >
 > "J. Landman Gay" a *crit :
 >
 >
 >>On 8/2/04 1:56 PM, jbv wrote:
 >>
 >> > BTW rawkeydown and rawkeyup both work, but then, how do you
 >> > map the raw keynumber with the corresponding char ?
 >> > the numtochar can't be used in this situation...
 >>
 >>Good question. I usually only use it when I need to trap specific keys,
 >>and I build a switch statement around those. If you need to trap every
 >>key then you may be better off with your other solution. What is the
 >>goal for this handler?
 >>
 >
 >
 > Well, it would be a bit too long to explain...
 > I guess an example is better (please note that I finally used
 > a third option - it is not fully implemented yet, but it'll give
 > you an idea).

I see. That's kind of cool. I think you are right though that trapping 
rawkeydown wouldn't work too well. I'm glad you found another solution 
because I can't think of a better one.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  4 01:00:12 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:00:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040803160059.03FB89300DA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040804050012.80011.qmail@web40512.mail.yahoo.com>

on Tue Aug 3 2004
Roger.E.Eller wrote:

> I tested your "vector2pdf" with Acrobat 5 (full) and

> Acrobat Reader 6 on Win2000. In both cases the 
> PDF files opened and displayed correct color filled 
> objects. 

This is great to know! Thanks!

Did you try to print or save as pdf from
Acrobat? 

These are my results in informal test:

In Acrobat 5, when i modify and try to save the file
it warns about an error that could not be repaired.
And the file do not save...

In Adobe ilustrator, this pdf is dismissed as
damaged and is not opened.

Freehand opens this pdf without problems.

> I look forward to text functionality, even in its 
> simplest form would be SOOOO useful! 

I agree. Because of the encodings required by text
it takes more time to test and implement correctly.

> Let me know if I can assist with testing or 
> providing sample PDF 
> files created with various programs.

Of course, if you could save these same set of vectors
graphics as pdf from other applications, like
ghostscript, corel, indesign, open office, etc..., 
you could compress all of them and send to my mail 
for inspection.

If we want to make this adaptation happen faster, 
everybody could grab a copy of the pdf reference and 
start reading and experimenting. ;-)

Thanks in advance.

al


=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


	
		
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From alw918 at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  4 01:36:37 2004
From: alw918 at earthlink.net (Andrew)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:36:37 -0700
Subject: New version of Revolution, Same standalone problems
In-Reply-To: <20040803191417.3F7919300AD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <410F423B-E5D8-11D8-AD60-000393DD0724@earthlink.net>

Hello, kind and smart people of the Revolution list.  I wonder if you 
could lend me a hand with a little head-scratching puzzler of a problem 
that I've been experiencing.
When I create standalones, I'm getting problems with both Windows and 
Mac versions.
The Windows standalone works except that it doesn't seem to recognize 
my Keyup handler (or Keydown for that matter).
http://ultimate.atomkinder.net/VillageIdiot.exe
The Mac standalone doesn't work at all.  When I double-click to open 
it, it just does nothing.
http://ultimate.atomkinder.net/VillageIdiot.sit
Any ideas?
Thanks so much for your help!
-Andrew


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Aug  4 02:18:12 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 01:18:12 -0500
Subject: New version of Revolution, Same standalone problems
In-Reply-To: <410F423B-E5D8-11D8-AD60-000393DD0724@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BD35E9D4.2BE5%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/4/04 12:36 AM, "Andrew" <alw918 at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hello, kind and smart people of the Revolution list.  I wonder if you
> could lend me a hand with a little head-scratching puzzler of a problem
> that I've been experiencing.
> When I create standalones, I'm getting problems with both Windows and
> Mac versions.
> The Windows standalone works except that it doesn't seem to recognize
> my Keyup handler (or Keydown for that matter).
> http://ultimate.atomkinder.net/VillageIdiot.exe
> The Mac standalone doesn't work at all.  When I double-click to open
> it, it just does nothing.
> http://ultimate.atomkinder.net/VillageIdiot.sit

Andrew,

Nothing personal, but you're asking us to download and run an executable...
not to sound paranoid, but I don't know too many people who'll take you up
on the offer... perhaps you can post your .rev stack and we can build our
own standalones and test it?

Thanks,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Aug  4 04:14:02 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:14:02 +0200
Subject: since I am in Hell, let's all have fun... we might end with a
 case study.
In-Reply-To: <20040803222909.9889.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040803222909.9889.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06110407bd3643deaf72@[194.158.42.164]>

>
>p.s.
>all i drink is agua de arroz
>but malt and Malta seem like a possibility..
>
>=====
>erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

Possibility?   Reality...real as stone.

atb
sims
---------------------------------
European Revolution Conference
14-15-16 November 2004 Malta
The November 2004 EuroRevCon Features...

* Kevin Miller, Rev CEO Keynote Sunday evening and daily discussions
* Two full days of Rev presentations and discussions by expert Rev developers:
     Malte Brill Richard Gaskin Klaus Major Frederic Rinaldi Jan Schenkel
     Dan Shafer will be in Malta also!
More information is available online at:    http://techietours.com/Rev/
Want to know more? Please get in touch...
email: rev at TechieTours.com
iChat: techietours

From rick at keyoptions.com.au  Wed Aug  4 04:00:18 2004
From: rick at keyoptions.com.au (Rick Wylie)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 18:00:18 +1000
Subject: openbase connectivity?
Message-ID: <535923C4-E5EC-11D8-B4D1-000A95CEF6CE@keyoptions.com.au>

Is there a database connection tool for Openbase?


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Wed Aug  4 06:37:09 2004
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:37:09 +0200
Subject: Animation library - libRMC
In-Reply-To: <20040804015237.00FD493008B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD3688F5.2421%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi Erik,

>thanks Malte,

You?re welcome. Thanks for your interest. :-)

If I am boring anyone on the list with my lib please tell me to shut up. ;-)

>the next question: can the animation be synced with MIDI or audio sound?

Yes. But you need to script the sync on your own.

the lib calculates the next point on the path of the target from the custom
properties of the target. You can change these custom properties any time
with a few lines of script. So if you use a player to play your audio you
can set up callbacks and react the way you want to.
Every needed information is stored in the custom properties

e.g. for a linear movement:

moveLinear["startpoint"]    The starpoint of the path
moveLinear["endpoint"]      The endpoint of the paths
moveLinear["isDistance"]    distance from the startpoint (in pixel)
moveLinear["step"]          (move how many pixels with any call of
                            movelinear
moveLinear[moveDone"]       a flag that lets you know if moving on the path
                            is completed.

these can be set by a script and when you call the moveLinear handler the
next time your object will react on the changes...
 
We can take this off list if you want and work on a small demo stack...

<boring technical hooey/dreammode on>

I know the scripted animation approach isn?t too compfortable as one still
needs to script quite a few things. It would be very cool to have a timeline
and a set of animation tools that one can just use. In other words a GUI
that lets you animate your objects by simply dragging them around, resizing
them and set some keyframes here and there. After the animation part is done
one could export "animation-Markup" that could be called any time the
animation library is in use. But that would require:

Time for creating the UI (maybe one could use parts of the old anim manager
                          as a basis)
Plenty of time for looking deeply into bezier curves...
(why do 2 names come to my mind right now? <g>)

Time for looking into XML or roll an animation markup on ones own

As I think about it it all seems doable, but will require lots of time
and/or more than one person coding on it. This is a huge task.

</boring technical hooey/dreammode off>

Best,

Malte


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Wed Aug  4 09:06:17 2004
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 15:06:17 +0200
Subject: libRMC PDF docs 
In-Reply-To: <20040804015237.00FD493008B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD36ABE9.2424%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi,

a first quick?n?dirty PDF is online:

<http://www.derbrill.de/librmc/docs.pdf>

please let me know if you need anything else.

Best,

Malte


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Wed Aug  4 09:45:27 2004
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:45:27 +0900
Subject: RevPrintText/Field/Card problems
In-Reply-To: <BD24368D.C5F%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BD24368D.C5F%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8B4CF466-E61C-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi,

Any chance RevPrintText will be updated to support Unicode? Printing 
unicode text is proving challenging. Type Unicoded text into a fld and 
then use the various print options available to us.

<revprinttext >
put the htmltext of fld 1 into thetext
revshowprintdialog false,true
revprinttext thetext
=== This results in a blank page(s) being previewed as well as 'printed'

put the text of fld 1 into thetext
revshowprintdialog false,true
revprinttext thetext
=== This results in the unicode text being printed in ascii format ie. 
incorrectlly

<Print card...>
This can be used. One just needs to clone a stack with a field the size 
of the printable area of the chosen paper, add a little to the topright 
and chop off a little of the bottomleft to get rid of the fld outline 
and it passes as a printed page of text. It is not an ideal solution 
however.

<revprintfield>
This works for ascii text but not for unicode. The results is a blank 
page(s) similar to using revprinttext using htmltext.


thanks
Ron


From RGould8 at aol.com  Wed Aug  4 09:55:41 2004
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:55:41 EDT
Subject: OT: Javascript to close any prev open windows
Message-ID: <45.124d7e14.2e4244dd@aol.com>

I realize this doesn't pertain to Revolution, but I don't presently belong to 
a Javascript listserve, and the folks on this list are probably smarter than 
the folks on a javascript listserve anyway ;)   This actually is for a project 
using Rev, but this occurs after Rev launches IE and quits itself.


-----------
Does anyone know if a means in Javascript to write an "onload" handler that 
detects any previously opened windows in Internet Explorer and automatically 
closes them when the present html page opens?

something like:

body onload="window.close()"

except that instead of closing the present html page's window, it'll close 
any previously opened windows.   Unfortunately, we don't know the "name" of the 
previously opened windows.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Aug  4 09:56:42 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 06:56:42 -0700
Subject: RevPrintText/Field/Card problems
In-Reply-To: <8B4CF466-E61C-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>
References: <BD24368D.C5F%kevin@runrev.com>
 <8B4CF466-E61C-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <a05100306bd369b55745e@[66.52.165.59]>

>put the htmltext of fld 1 into thetext

Hi Ron,

Have you tried "put the unicodeText of fld 1 into theText"?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Aug  4 10:08:34 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:08:34 -0300
Subject: since I am in Hell, let's all have fun... we might end with a
	case study.
In-Reply-To: <20040803222909.9889.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040803222909.9889.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C61BAE07-E61F-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>

> why don't you give up the machines and go back
> to entertainment? host your own forum.
> if anyone can squeeze humor out of a difference
> engine...

I am considering making some comedy stacks, like webcomics but 
cooler....
code and comedy are very similar, how many times you looked at a source 
and laughed... I think there are five types of reaction upon looking at 
source code made by others:

1) "Man, I can't belive he did it that way..."   <---- That's comedy.
2) "Oh, that's how he implemented it, amazing..."   <---- That's a 
religious revelation.
3) "Oh Heck! Come Look how that moron did it..."   <---- That's also 
comedy, but people are laughing on you and the support techs...
4) "Man, that will never work." <--- That's an act of faith, and fit's 
the religious kind.
5) "I can't understand this, I think it's perl, at least, it appears 
perl to me..."   <---- That's also comedy, but the coder was a 
masoquist.

but that's just my theory, I don't know why I typed this, I just awoke, 
took a bath and checked email... I'll begin to make more sense after 
tea.

send in time is cool by the way, but I am waiting a premonition 
external that will enable things like:  send "do not execute rm -rf /" 
in -4 years and execute things in the past, this would save my old pc 
and maybe my mac.

I am learning spanish by talking to you guys! "no cada uno poder ser 
scott rossi" eheheheheh

Cheers (where's my tea?)
andre

>
>> the url for the blog is
>> http://www.wecode.org/24hRush
>
> oh, i get it. write code and comedy
> at the same time.
> do you use the send in time command?
> usted es el hombre.
> (non-Portugese in-joke)
>
>> Andre Alves Garzia <eth> 2004
>> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
>> http://studio.soapdog.org
>
> p.s.
> all i drink is agua de arroz
> but malt and Malta seem like a possibility..
>
> =====
> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org
>
>
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Aug  4 10:21:11 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:21:11 -0300
Subject: changing the order of controls?
Message-ID: <890E7236-E621-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I made a form like card with fields and I want to change the orders of 
the navigation using tabs. The inspector is not allowing any change in 
the layer prop. Also bringing forward or backward does nothing, and 
selecting all the controls and pressing relayer do nothing to (I think 
those layer buttons in my inspector are disabled)

any clue?

andre
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

From Revinfo1155 at aol.com  Wed Aug  4 10:25:10 2004
From: Revinfo1155 at aol.com (Revinfo1155 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:25:10 EDT
Subject: Button script for "save as"
Message-ID: <1ce.27b694d4.2e424bc6@aol.com>

Sarah-The script worked great-Thanks! Would it be possible for you to comment 
the script so I can understand what each command does? I'm a little lost. 
Thanks for your help.

jack

In a message dated 8/3/04 9:55:15 PM, sarahr at genesearch.com.au writes:


> You want to save a copy of your stack under another name?
> 
> ?? ask file "Save stack as:"
> ?? put it into newName
> ?? if newName is empty then exit to top
> ?? save this stack as newName
> ?? put the fileName of this stack into tCheck
> ?? answer "Stack saved to file: " & tCheck
> 
> The revMenuBar uses this:
> ? ?? revSaveAs the short name of the topStack,false
> 
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> 
> 
> On 4 Aug 2004, at 11:42 am, Revinfo1155 at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > I need a button script that accomplishes the same thing as the "save
> > as " in the file menu. I tryed scripting around the ask file command
> > but I'm leaving something out as it will not create the file. Any help
> > to get me on the right path will be appreciated.
> >
> > jack
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Wed Aug  4 10:38:00 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 10:38:00 -0400
Subject: Switch statement
In-Reply-To: <20040801185458.6D7D893027A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD366D08.2242%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

 switch (Text) contains
    case "ballast"
      put "no cargo" into fld "e4"
      break
    case "bulk"
      put "oil bunkers" into fld "e5"
      break
    default
      put "general cargo" into fld "e6"
  end switch

The above is a simple switch where (Text) is more than one word and I am
looking to see if that list of words contains one particular word. I have
tried every possible permutation of this and can't find the simple answer.
Maybe I have to do like in MySQL and put ? Before and after my search word
although that is particular for MySQL.

What is the easiest way to do this (other than three separate if statements)
-- I would like to get the switch working with a "contains" search.



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  4 10:39:37 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 07:39:37 -0700
Subject: since I am in Hell, let's all have fun... we might end with a
	case study.
In-Reply-To: <C61BAE07-E61F-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1C121062-E624-11D8-9FC6-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, August 4, 2004, at 07:08 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> but that's just my theory, I don't know why I typed this, I just 
> awoke, took a bath and checked email... I'll begin to make more sense 
> after tea.

6) "This must be Andre's code before tea." <--- :-)

I like send in time too. I used to be a building contractor so when 
thinking about the original premise of the topic for this thread I 
thought that send in time might be improved by adding by adding a 
secondary option with  "all the new features." When I was a builder I 
made the customer pay in advance for all feature improvements beyond 
the original contract. That tends to put the burden of hell back on the 
customer.

Mark



From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Aug  4 10:40:22 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 07:40:22 -0700
Subject: changing the order of controls?
In-Reply-To: <890E7236-E621-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <890E7236-E621-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a0510030abd36a55bcf54@[66.52.165.59]>

>I made a form like card with fields and I want to change the orders 
>of the navigation using tabs. The inspector is not allowing any 
>change in the layer prop. Also bringing forward or backward does 
>nothing, and selecting all the controls and pressing relayer do 
>nothing to (I think those layer buttons in my inspector are disabled)
>
>any clue?

Hi Andre,

If the controls are grouped, you must edit the group to change the 
layering of the controls within it.  Groups & ungrouped controls 
should respond to layering changes when you are not editing any group.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Aug  4 10:43:23 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 07:43:23 -0700
Subject: Switch statement
In-Reply-To: <BD366D08.2242%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD366D08.2242%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <a0510030bbd36a65008b6@[66.52.165.59]>

>  switch (Text) contains
>     case "ballast"
>       put "no cargo" into fld "e4"
>       break
>     case "bulk"
>       put "oil bunkers" into fld "e5"
>       break
>     default
>       put "general cargo" into fld "e6"
>   end switch
>
>The above is a simple switch where (Text) is more than one word and I am
>looking to see if that list of words contains one particular word. I have
>tried every possible permutation of this and can't find the simple answer.
>Maybe I have to do like in MySQL and put ? Before and after my search word
>although that is particular for MySQL.
>
>What is the easiest way to do this (other than three separate if statements)
>-- I would like to get the switch working with a "contains" search.

Hi Bill,

remove "contains"
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  4 10:44:25 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:44:25 -0400
Subject: Dealing with creeping featurism in customer requests
In-Reply-To: <1C121062-E624-11D8-9FC6-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <1C121062-E624-11D8-9FC6-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C7B5D0E5-E624-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

 >>>When I was a builder I made the customer pay in advance for all 
feature improvements beyond the original contract. That tends to put 
the burden of hell back on the customer.

Not a bad idea, Mark.

M
On Aug 4, 2004, at 10:39 AM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>
> On Wednesday, August 4, 2004, at 07:08 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>> but that's just my theory, I don't know why I typed this, I just 
>> awoke, took a bath and checked email... I'll begin to make more sense 
>> after tea.
>
> 6) "This must be Andre's code before tea." <--- :-)
>
> I like send in time too. I used to be a building contractor so when 
> thinking about the original premise of the topic for this thread I 
> thought that send in time might be improved by adding by adding a 
> secondary option with  "all the new features." When I was a builder I 
> made the customer pay in advance for all feature improvements beyond 
> the original contract. That tends to put the burden of hell back on 
> the customer.
>
> Mark
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Aug  4 10:50:35 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 07:50:35 -0700
Subject: Switch statement
Message-ID: <a0510030cbd36a6c12375@[66.52.165.59]>

>  switch (Text) contains
>     case "ballast"
>       put "no cargo" into fld "e4"
>       break
>     case "bulk"
>       put "oil bunkers" into fld "e5"
>       break
>     default
>       put "general cargo" into fld "e6"
>   end switch
>
>The above is a simple switch where (Text) is more than one word and I am
>looking to see if that list of words contains one particular word. I have
>tried every possible permutation of this and can't find the simple answer.
>Maybe I have to do like in MySQL and put ? Before and after my search word
>although that is particular for MySQL.
>
>What is the easiest way to do this (other than three separate if statements)
>-- I would like to get the switch working with a "contains" search.


>remove "contains"

Sorry, Bill.

I understood Text to contain only the text in the case definitions.

If there is other text in Text as well, how about:

  switch
     case  (Text) contains"ballast"
       put "no cargo" into fld "e4"
       break
     case  (Text) contains"bulk"
       put "oil bunkers" into fld "e5"
       break
     default
       put "general cargo" into fld "e6"
   end switch

-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Aug  4 10:52:14 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:52:14 -0300
Subject: changing the order of controls?
In-Reply-To: <a0510030abd36a55bcf54@[66.52.165.59]>
References: <890E7236-E621-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<a0510030abd36a55bcf54@[66.52.165.59]>
Message-ID: <DF7400CC-E625-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 4, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Hi Andre,
>
> If the controls are grouped, you must edit the group to change the 
> layering of the controls within it.  Groups & ungrouped controls 
> should respond to layering changes when you are not editing any group.
>

Thank You Rob!!!!! (I knew interfaces based on tab pannels and grouped 
controls would give me a headache!)

Thanks!
andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  4 10:52:20 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 07:52:20 -0700
Subject: Dealing with creeping featurism in customer requests
In-Reply-To: <C7B5D0E5-E624-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E32E4A9B-E625-11D8-9FC6-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, August 4, 2004, at 07:44 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> >>>When I was a builder I made the customer pay in advance for all 
> feature improvements beyond the original contract. That tends to put 
> the burden of hell back on the customer.
>
> Not a bad idea, Mark.
>
> M

I like the title of this subject. I always knew back then if one of my 
customers started growing a second head that I was in trouble or was 
soon going to be. You got to watch out for creeping features  in your 
customers.

mb


From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Aug  4 10:53:55 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:53:55 -0300
Subject: Dealing with creeping featurism in customer requests
In-Reply-To: <C7B5D0E5-E624-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <1C121062-E624-11D8-9FC6-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
	<C7B5D0E5-E624-11D8-B6EA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1B84832C-E626-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 4, 2004, at 11:44 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> >>>When I was a builder I made the customer pay in advance for all 
> feature improvements beyond the original contract. That tends to put 
> the burden of hell back on the customer.
>
> Not a bad idea, Mark.
>

If I was smarter, I would have done that, now, a simple directory app 
turned into a SAP clone... damn....

Andre



> M
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Wed Aug  4 10:59:23 2004
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 23:59:23 +0900
Subject: RevPrintText/Field/Card problems
In-Reply-To: <a05100306bd369b55745e@[66.52.165.59]>
References: <BD24368D.C5F%kevin@runrev.com>
	<8B4CF466-E61C-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<a05100306bd369b55745e@[66.52.165.59]>
Message-ID: <DF689352-E626-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi Rob

Yes, that would seem the natural thing to do, however my results were 
the same as the htmltext attemp viz. blank sheets. The htmltext does 
actually, appear in the variable watcher as html tagged text with the 
language = japanese (in my case) and numbers representing the 
characters. It seems that revprinttext loses something in the 
translation. But I would loved to be proved wrong and  the fault be 
mine.

Thanks
Ron


On Aug 4, 2004, at 10:56 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>> put the htmltext of fld 1 into thetext
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> Have you tried "put the unicodeText of fld 1 into theText"?
> -- 
>
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company


From nonsanity at fluffandsuch.com  Wed Aug  4 10:56:41 2004
From: nonsanity at fluffandsuch.com (Nonsanity)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 10:56:41 -0400
Subject: Switch statement
In-Reply-To: <BD366D08.2242%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD366D08.2242%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <4110F929.80305@fluffandsuch.com>

If you are searching for your words in a larger string, then this won't 
work with a case statement. Case statements are better (that is, 
slightly faster - maybe) than if-then-else chains when you are comparing 
a single variable with multiple constants. If you need to perform 
processing (like a "contains" find-like command) or use multiple 
variables and conditions, or compare against other variables... Then 
case is not the way to go. If your "Text" variable contains nothing but 
"ballast", "bulk", or something else, then just drop the "contains" 
keyword. If "Text" is a larger string, like "16-ton ballast" (which in 
your case it is), then switch to a chained if-then-else:


if "ballast" is in Text then
     put "no cargo" into fld "e4"
else if "bulk" is in Text then
     put "oil bunkjers into fld "e5"
else
     put "general cargo" into fld "e6"
end if



  ~ Chris Innanen
  ~ Nonsanity
  ~ AIM: FluffAndSuch


Bill wrote:
>  switch (Text) contains
>     case "ballast"
>       put "no cargo" into fld "e4"
>       break
>     case "bulk"
>       put "oil bunkers" into fld "e5"
>       break
>     default
>       put "general cargo" into fld "e6"
>   end switch
> 
> The above is a simple switch where (Text) is more than one word and I am
> looking to see if that list of words contains one particular word. I have
> tried every possible permutation of this and can't find the simple answer.
> Maybe I have to do like in MySQL and put ? Before and after my search word
> although that is particular for MySQL.
> 
> What is the easiest way to do this (other than three separate if statements)
> -- I would like to get the switch working with a "contains" search.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Aug  4 11:56:28 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:56:28 -0700
Subject: Bulk mail sorting
In-Reply-To: <20040804015236.A49BF93008D@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040804015236.A49BF93008D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110404bd36b5bc24f0@[66.81.128.21]>

>---------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:42:16 -0400
>From: "Dave LeYanna" <dleyanna at rtl.org>
>Subject: RE: Bulk mail sorting
>To: "'How to use Revolution'" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <20040803193807.2486F30AC3 at mail.rtl.org>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
>If you are trying to get the best possible rates you need a lot more than
>CR. You also have to have your addresses PAVE  certified and CASS processed.
>Barcodes for labels and tray/sack tags need to be generated. Government
>style reports created, and sorting rules beyond measure. Just take a look at
>the bulk rate section of the Domestic Mail Manual at the USPS site. The USPS
>does provide data bases (at a subscription cost) and the software created
>using the tables needs to be approved by a post office testing procedure.
>It's all very ugly. We plan on attempting it sometime in the future but for
>now we use commercial software. A couple of providers are Melissa Data and
>Datatech Smartsoft.
>
>If you plan to go ahead let me know as we may be able to work together as
>this is a future project for us also...
>
>Dave LeYanna
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of kee nethery
>Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 12:41 PM
>To: How to use Revolution
>Subject: Re: Bulk mail sorting
>
>
>On Aug 3, 2004, at 9:23 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:
>
>>  Has anyone worked on creating software to sort mail to achieve US Post
>>  Office bulk rates, in particular sorting by carrier route?
>
>no but the CD the USPS puts out is very easy to parse so if you have the
>data, you can combine with the addresses and then just sort. Should be "a
>simple matter of coding"  :-)  .
>Kee
>

Thanks Dave and Kee,

I have looked at the Post Office regs. They are indeed ugly. Pity. It 
would be trivial to sort a given address list to match the Post 
Office's carrier routes, but the certification is a killer. And I 
can't see what need there is for bar codes. The whole point of the 
sort by carrier route is to avoid the necessity of the PO doing their 
own sort.

Think I'll take your advice Dave and let the mailing houses handle 
it. This annoys me. There is little competition in my neck of the 
woods and they take advantage of the fact. But as my work is gratis, 
as a volunteer, my resources are limited.

Just out of curiosity, where would I order the PO CD?

Jim

From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Aug  4 12:08:08 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:08:08 -0700
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040804015236.A49BF93008D@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040804015236.A49BF93008D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110405bd36b89bd1b4@[66.81.128.21]>

>
>Message: 19
>Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Alejandro Tejada <capellan2000 at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [ANN] vector to pdf
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Message-ID: <20040804002858.75270.qmail at web40507.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Hi Developers,
>
>After a lot of discussion about the need of
>pdf in this platform, i get surprised that no
>interest showed to this handler to export
>the vector graphics of a stack as pdf.
>It's a humble start to learn to write pdf
>from within RR/MC.
>
>

Hi Al,

Actually  you have solved my needs for a PDF exporter within RunRev 
with your generous work allowing us to export RunRev graphics as an 
Illustrator file.

What I do now is use your utility to export any RR graphic as an 
Illustrator file, open it it FreeHand, complete my work in FreeHand 
and export the FreeHand document as PDF.

A little cumbersome, but certainly workable.

Jim


From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Aug  4 12:42:38 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 18:42:38 +0200
Subject: Advise on enterprize application + clustering
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEMIGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEMIGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <4BE7CDE1-E635-11D8-A719-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Grettings, All,

Le 3 ao?t 04, ? 08:01, MisterX a ?crit :

> This is getting interesting... A bit of everything to solve
> your problem (x's famous howitzer approach). The last part
> may be even more interesting than the first. Remember that
> enterprise means also redundancy and zero-downtime ;)

!!! --> Always have this in mind (aka : only ACID compliant RDBMS 
back-ends are eligibles there). In respecting this basis, the 
applications server will always be cleanly designed (with, sorry for 
the possibles Java's addicts reading us, to the end, Tomcat, JBoss no 
more suitables at all than Metacard or Revolution...).


> Unfortunately there is some risks of lock ups if not done
> carefully... But here are 3 things you could try:
>
> 1)
>
> In a three tiered cluster strategy, mentioned in a clustering
> class I had recently, there were three actors
>
>   client -> server1 -> server2
>
>   client -> server2 is not possible because of the firewall.
>
>   but server1 -> server2 is fine and client -> server1 is ok2

An usefull ports translation strategy, always very suitable, even in 
about proxying / firewalling applications servers...
>
>   if client cannot use sql but can use client1's ports,
>   and assuming client1 and client2 can do the sql bit...
>
>   then you need a port configurable client server networking
>   protocol.
>
>   in brief:
>   RRclient -> RR on Server -> SQLserver
>
>   between RRclient and RRserver you use whatever protocol (80!)
>   Best is to have your client ask their network administrator
>   to see what is allowed and for what purpose.
>
>   If you saw the forms we have to fill in for these requests
>   at my office you would scream!

For sure very cool and secure from the cluster administrator's point of 
view...
>
> 2)
>
> For the clustering part now... For a redundant server...
>   but you can have more than one server also...
>
>   Run two instances of RR. Named RRServer1 and RRS2.
>   Now only one application must work with the port communication
>   at the time but you can imagine either that one is locked up,
>   not responding, or working hard. It would be nice to have RR2
>   take over the next client's server call...
>
>   What you do, is create a temporary file called rr1alive where
>   you write a frequent log - the frequency is the timeout for RR2
>   to kick and start working.
>
>   There's the case where the RR1alive file is locked by the RR1,
>   which should be working but which should be closing the file.
>
>   (is there a FileLocked(filepath) function in rr?)
>   You can use the file's date from the extended files function to
>   see the date anyway.
>
>   So if there is a timeout trying to read that file, RR1 must be
>   locked. Terminate the process RR1. Relaunch RR1 and give it the
>   hand when you finished the current client processing.
>
>   Note: usage of a different log for operations than the alivelog
>   is worth the trouble. You could keep a log opened in the case of
>   a processing but the alivelog should be kept closed to see when
>   the last alive was logged to prevent a double server taking parts
>   each of the same client's transactions (this can be prevented ez).
>
>   Since transactions with SQL could take a while and queue up clients
>   you could imagine that another RRx takes over while the other
>   apps finish their transactions.

Hum ! I like your proposal design, Xavier but why would we have to 
reinvent the wheel of the "transactions manager concept" when we can 
let Apache (on the in/out to public/VPN internet side) and the ACID-DB 
transactions managers handle tthat all for our Rev's applications 
server ?
>
> 3)
>   The cherry on the cake
>
>   Now, if RunRev implemented threading into RR for 3.0, we would have
>   this process written into just one server application. It's one
>   thing that differentiates Java from RR...

That's mainly marketing... Even if unofficial, the JAVA 1.4 best 
practices recommandation is to never exced 3 simultaneous bytecode 
threads per web-services (aka : best to let dedicaded parts of the 
system handle such kind of tasks, including the Posix kernel's 
multi-theading features (very well suited under Linux), the Apache and 
ACID-DB servers ones).

> BUT wait a millisecond,
>   requesting web urls is threaded and could be used also as a
>   transaction protocol for any client over port 80 couldn't it?

True. Apache is build to handle that all for us (in synchronious mode) 
in opening a new thread for each incoming request.  By experience, the 
MC/Rev applications servers are just best coached in this way than by 
any internal transcript dedicated code and, because, the WAS works, in 
practice,; always faster than the DB backend, there is no wait at all, 
each transaction thread after an other.
>
>   If well formed, im sure you can send xml or any data embeded into
>   an client-side html-form request on good old port 80!

100 times true !  Simplicity is there the best entry to build secure 
and clean...

>   Using mysqlmgr in html, you can send loads of sql data via a form
>   to the server.
>
> ;)

Cool and very "pedagogique" (as we say so much, there, in France) post 
! Thanks, Xavier :D

Best, Pierre
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Andre
>> Garzia
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 00:08
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Re: Advise on enterprize application.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 2, 2004, at 6:51 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
>>
>>> Andre-
>>>
>>> I'd have to agree with Trevor here that a multi-tiered approach is 
>>> the
>>> way to go. I think you'll have an easier time of it than trying to
>>> stuff everything into a giant rev app (not to mention an easier time
>>> doing maintenance in the long run).
>>>
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Thanks! Already on that path! I just need to know how to make that
>> database library work in the mc engine... it's not there...
>>
>> Andre
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> -Mark Wieder
>>>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
>> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
>> http://studio.soapdog.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Aug  4 13:10:26 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 19:10:26 +0200
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040804002858.75270.qmail@web40507.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040804002858.75270.qmail@web40507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2DBF5BCA-E639-11D8-A719-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Thanks Alejandro,

Will spend a couple of hours with it (Linux, Panther).

Best, Pierre

Le 4 ao?t 04, ? 02:28, Alejandro Tejada a ?crit :

> Hi Developers,
>
> After a lot of discussion about the need of
> pdf in this platform, i get surprised that no
> interest showed to this handler to export
> the vector graphics of a stack as pdf.
> It's a humble start to learn to write pdf
> from within RR/MC.
>
> I just ask for feedback on PDF readers error messages
> on linux and mac os x.
>
> Just in case that the original message
> get lost in the mail, i'll post here again:
>
> on Sun, 25 Jul 2004
> Alejandro Tejada wrote:
>
> Hi Developers,
>
> Download the stack "vector2pdf":
>
> _http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/vector2pdf.zip_
> <http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/vector2pdf.zip>
>
> This shows a handler to export vector graphics as
> pdf. When Acrobat Reader 5 opens the file, it still
> shows the message "Rebuilding reference table",
> but at least the file opens... :-))
>
> Inform to the mail list about any incompabilities
> and error messages with Acrobat 6 and Readers from
> Mac OS X and Linux.
>
> If you want to help to write the code needed to
> write text and images with this handler, download
> the PDF reference manual. Look in Google for
> "PDF reference manual".
>
> Thanks a lot to Richard Gaskin for his help with
> the colornames funtions.
>
> al
>
>
>
> =====
> Visit my site:
> http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/
> Search the mail list:
> http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi
>
>
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug  4 13:18:37 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 19:18:37 +0200
Subject: margins and tabstops
Message-ID: <52911858-E63A-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi all,

did someone notice that the TABs do not respect the set
margins of a field?

Example:
I have a field where i set the margins to "60,4,4,4" because i need some
"room" on the left side...

But when i set the tabstops they do not "respect" the margins...?

The tabstop STAYS at 140 or whatever and therefore i cannot use the
"vgrid" property to display the text in the field correctly...

Know what i mean?

Create a field with a wide left margin, set the TABS, put some tabs and 
text
into it and turn on the "vgrid"...

Et voila, completely "out of sync" :-(

Bug or feature?


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Aug  4 13:22:19 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:22:19 -0700
Subject: Corrupted Files in OS X
In-Reply-To: <14E518D2-E5BB-11D8-ABB1-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>
References: <14E518D2-E5BB-11D8-ABB1-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <821432790.20040804102219@ahsoftware.net>

Gregory-

I'm not sure if this is relevant to your problem, but have a look at
the customProperties in revPreferences. I've been having similar
problems occasionally and having to clear out corrupted paths from the
cRecentPaths property. (BZ #1752)

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Aug  4 13:28:56 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:28:56 -0700
Subject: margins and tabstops
In-Reply-To: <52911858-E63A-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <52911858-E63A-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <a05100304bd36cb42b723@[66.52.165.173]>

>Create a field with a wide left margin, set the TABS, put some tabs and text
>into it and turn on the "vgrid"...
>
>Et voila, completely "out of sync" :-(
>
>Bug or feature?

Or just the way that it works, Klaus.

I believe tabStops are absolute positions: tabStop pixels from the 
left of the field or the last tabStop.  I have not tried this, but I 
believe you can obtain the same "out of sync"ness by radically 
changing the font size of the field's contents.

You need to account for your margins and font size if you want vGrids 
to change dynamically when margins &/or font size changes.


-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Aug  4 13:33:34 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:33:34 -0700
Subject: since I am in Hell, let's all have fun... we might end with a
	case study.
In-Reply-To: <C61BAE07-E61F-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <20040803222909.9889.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>
 <C61BAE07-E61F-11D8-8E69-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1622107620.20040804103334@ahsoftware.net>

Andre-

Wednesday, August 4, 2004, 7:08:34 AM, you wrote:

AG> but that's just my theory, I don't know why I typed this, I just awoke,
AG> took a bath and checked email... I'll begin to make more sense after
AG> tea.

What? You took a bath BEFORE checking your email?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug  4 13:46:24 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 19:46:24 +0200
Subject: margins and tabstops
In-Reply-To: <a05100304bd36cb42b723@[66.52.165.173]>
References: <52911858-E63A-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<a05100304bd36cb42b723@[66.52.165.173]>
Message-ID: <34099AD8-E63E-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Rob,

>> Create a field with a wide left margin, set the TABS, put some tabs 
>> and text
>> into it and turn on the "vgrid"...
>>
>> Et voila, completely "out of sync" :-(
>>
>> Bug or feature?
>
> Or just the way that it works, Klaus.

I was afraid of that ;-)

> I believe tabStops are absolute positions: tabStop pixels from the 
> left of the field or the last tabStop.

Sure, makes sense...

> I have not tried this, but I believe you can obtain the same "out of 
> sync"ness by radically changing the font size of the field's contents.

No, a tab at 200 is a tab at 200.

> You need to account for your margins and font size if you want vGrids 
> to change dynamically when margins &/or font size changes.

Only one size and font and style...

Please try it out by yourself, you have to see it ;-)

I simply cannot use the "vgrid" to prevent text from "displacing" the 
next tabs...

I will have to "reorder" my list field entries, but then i will have 
more "vgrid" lines
in my field than i want... Too bad :-(

> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From alw918 at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  4 13:46:45 2004
From: alw918 at earthlink.net (Andrew)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:46:45 -0700
Subject: New Version of Rev.... Executables
In-Reply-To: <20040804143804.E78F3930058@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <40B94FD9-E63E-11D8-B5DE-000393DD0724@earthlink.net>

Sorry to scare you, Ray.  :) But you're right.  Here is the Rev stack.
http://ultimate.atomkinder.net/VillageIdiot.rev
As I said, with the Windows standalone, you the keyup doesn't work.  
And with the Mac standalone, it doesn't seem to work at all-- that is, 
it doesn't work after I've uploaded it to my site and then downloaded 
it as if I were a user.  This is weird, aint it?  But it is so.
Thanks for any help you can offer!
-Andrew
On Wednesday, August 4, 2004, at 07:38  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Nothing personal, but you're asking us to download and run an 
> executable...
> not to sound paranoid, but I don't know too many people who'll take 
> you up
> on the offer... perhaps you can post your .rev stack and we can build 
> our
> own standalones and test it?


From RGould8 at aol.com  Wed Aug  4 14:09:27 2004
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:09:27 EDT
Subject: revGoUrl and IE 5.1
Message-ID: <6.2f98c291.2e428057@aol.com>

There's something fishy going on with the way revGoURL works and Internet 
Explorer 5.1 on Mac OS X:

With IE 5.2 or 5.2.3 set up as the default browser, this revGoURL command 
works fine:

revGoURL "file:///Users/test/Desktop/FIOS_8_2g/DATA/HTML/fiosbiz.htm"

However, if the user has IE 5.1 set up as their default browser, Revolution 
fails to launch the browser to the locally-stored html file.

Any idea what could be causing that?   Is there a unix call I could use 
instead to get around this problem?


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Wed Aug  4 14:28:01 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 14:28:01 -0400
Subject: Switch statement
In-Reply-To: <20040804160017.D60A69300CF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD36A2F1.225C%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>


Thanks this worked. I thought you had to use a switch statement because an
if statement could only have one "else". Now I realize a switch/case
statement is only used because it is faster for comparing one item against
other items to match exactly. This is an example of how an old hypercard
programmer can do lots of stuff without really knowing anything about
programming. I do notice that all the runrev processes like this run so fast
it doesn't really matter. The only thing slowing down my program is the
calls to the database and I'm starting to put all those in global containers
to speed things up by just accessing the variables.

> if "ballast" is in Text then
>      put "valuable contraband" into fld "e4"
> else if "bulk" is in Text then
>      put "illegal aliens" into fld "e5"
> else
>      put "go visit Andre in South America" into fld "e6"
> end if





From patricia.de.martelaere at pi.be  Wed Aug  4 14:46:20 2004
From: patricia.de.martelaere at pi.be (Patricia De Martelaere)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 20:46:20 +0200
Subject: margins and tabstops
Message-ID: <93BC4456-E646-11D8-8EB0-000A95DAEFDA@pi.be>

> 	? 	From: Klaus Major
> 	? 	 Subject: margins and tabstops
> 	? 	 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 10:17:44 -0700
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> did someone notice that the TABs do not respect the set
> margins of a field?
>
>
> Example:
> I have a field where i set the margins to "60,4,4,4" because i need 
> some
> "room" on the left side...
>
>
> But when i set the tabstops they do not "respect" the margins...?
>
>
> The tabstop STAYS at 140 or whatever and therefore i cannot use the
> "vgrid" property to display the text in the field correctly...
>
>
> Know what i mean?
>
>  Create a field with a wide left margin, set the TABS, put some tabs 
> and text
>  into it and turn on the "vgrid"...
>
>
> Et voila, completely "out of sync" :-(
>
>
> Bug or feature?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Klaus Major


Hi Klaus,

May be you will consider this a work around but why not format the tabs 
and use the tabs to show the text in the cell you want?
like for example:
constant origTabs = 30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30  ---- or whatever format

on resetcolumns
     set the tabstops of fld 1 to origTabs
end resetcolumns

on showcolumn x
    get origTabs
    put <widecellvalue> into item x of it
    set the tabstops of fld 1 to it
end showcolumn

Greetings,
WA


From howard.bornstein at gmail.com  Wed Aug  4 14:49:19 2004
From: howard.bornstein at gmail.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:49:19 -0400
Subject: How do I allow quotation marks in input text?
In-Reply-To: <05C2A073-E5BB-11D8-8653-000A95909E26@mac.com>
References: <05C2A073-E5BB-11D8-8653-000A95909E26@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3f07cc260408041149249c3b93@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:02:37 -0400, Stephen Paul McNutt
<stephenmcnutt at mac.com> wrote:
> I've got a field into which users enter questions for a game, but
> single and double quotation marks don't display properly later when
> they appear in the game.  They become boxes.  Is this a font issue?
> I've tried several fonts.  I thought it was because the quotation marks
> were reserved characters, but they don't end the display of the string
> as I'd expect if they were.

It's not clear exactly what you mean. For example, if your user enters
the following into a field:

This is some "text" with 'quote' marks.

You should be able to move this text around (put fld "questions" into
fld "answers") with no problems and the quotes will come right along.

Maybe you can give some examples of what you're trying to do and what
happens when you do it.

Regards,

Howard Bornstein
-----------------------
www.designeq.com

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Aug  4 14:57:44 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:57:44 -0700
Subject: margins and tabstops
In-Reply-To: <34099AD8-E63E-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <52911858-E63A-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
 <a05100304bd36cb42b723@[66.52.165.173]>
 <34099AD8-E63E-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <a05100300bd36db938c54@[66.52.165.173]>

>>I have not tried this, but I believe you can obtain the same "out 
>>of sync"ness by radically changing the font size of the field's 
>>contents.
>
>No, a tab at 200 is a tab at 200.
>
>>You need to account for your margins and font size if you want 
>>vGrids to change dynamically when margins &/or font size changes.
>
>Only one size and font and style...
>
>Please try it out by yourself, you have to see it ;-)

Yes, I see it now, Klaus;

If I didn't know better, I'd say the field is acting like a 
right-justified column in a spreadsheet.

Just as strange, if I make the font size large enough, the end of the 
text before the tab disappears under the text after the tab.  This 
conjures up memories of left-justified spreadsheet entries.

Is it just coincidence that Vertical grid is listed among Table properties?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Aug  4 14:59:52 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:59:52 -0500
Subject: unresponsive menus
In-Reply-To: <BD354EEF.6B13%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <BD369C58.2CAD%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/3/04 4:17 PM, "moe2 at shaw.ca" <moe2 at shaw.ca> wrote:

> im an old HC?er, using OS 9 on an iMac. i have just downloaded the RR trial
> version. RR opens fine. i select the ?Help? menu
> ... then i see menuItem  ?Documentation   cmd-??
> so i try cmd-? ... nothing happens
> but  cmd-shift-?  works ... is this a bug?

Personally I think it is a bug - even though *technically* to get the ? you
need to hold down the shift key, I still think that RR should trap both
cmd-/ and cmd-shift-/ to activate the Cmd-? Documentation menu item.

> i see there is no ?checkmark? beside the menuItem ?Documentation? in ?Help?
> menu when the ?Documentation? window is open. is this a bug?
> ... the menuItems in the ?View? menu have checkmarks!

No, I don't think so. I've seen many apps that don't toggle the checkmarks
for non-palette windows.
 
> so then i select menuItem ?Transcript Dictionary? in menu ?Help?  ...
> nothing happens. is this a bug?

Yup. The already open documentation window should shift to show the TD...
it's not.

> i close the Documentation window. select menuItem ?Transcript Dictionary? in
> menu ?Help? ... this works ... and very nice too i might add ... but no
> checkMark beside the menuItem. is this a bug?

No, for the same reason as the Documentation menu item I mentioned above.
 
> then i select menuItem ?Documentation? in the ?Help? menu
>    ... nothing happens ... is this a bug?

Yes. Same as the bug above - basically they need to switch the docs to
whatever is selected in the Help menu.
 
> is someone going to address these in the current beta version ?

I hope so, but I know right now there's a focus on fixing functional bugs
vs. cosmetic ones, so it may not be addressed in the next version of Rev.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Aug  4 15:11:21 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:11:21 -0300
Subject: Switch statement
In-Reply-To: <BD36A2F1.225C%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD36A2F1.225C%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <12793A38-E64A-11D8-BB50-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 4, 2004, at 3:28 PM, Bill wrote:

>> else
>>      put "go visit Andre in South America" into fld "e6"
>> end if

Oh boy.... if there's a bug in this software I'll end with ballast or 
illegal aliens in my home!!!!
:-)

Andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From tac at mac.com  Wed Aug  4 15:12:32 2004
From: tac at mac.com (Takaaki Furukawa)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:12:32 -0700
Subject: Image format
Message-ID: <3CAF632E-E64A-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>

I would like to export the data of an image object in either PNG or JPG
format in CGI.
But when I do this, I get a corrupted PNG file. I use Revolution Engine 
2.5
(which doesn't seem to support "export image" command yet).
  Maybe "put into url" cannot be used with image objects?

> set the paintCompression to PNG
> import snapshot from rect "0,0,100,100"
> put last image into myImage
> put myImage into url "file:imagedir/myimage.png"

Takaaki Furukawa


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Aug  4 15:25:39 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:25:39 -0700
Subject: revGoUrl and IE 5.1
In-Reply-To: <6.2f98c291.2e428057@aol.com>
References: <6.2f98c291.2e428057@aol.com>
Message-ID: <11CCDB68-E64C-11D8-89F5-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>


On Aug 4, 2004, at 11:09 AM, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> There's something fishy going on with the way revGoURL works and 
> Internet
> Explorer 5.1 on Mac OS X:
>
Sounds like an IE problem, not a Rev issue. This problem with outdated 
and buggy browsers comes up all the time when I do Web-based 
development. IE 5.1 for Mac had a few ugly bugs in it. I tell my 
clients that if they want to run my Web apps on IE Mac, they need to 
upgrade.

I recognize you may not have that option. But I wanted you to know it's 
not an uncommon problem.

Dan


From revlist at cableone.net  Wed Aug  4 15:27:50 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:27:50 -0600
Subject: Rev 2.2.1 and Mac OS 10.1.5
Message-ID: <000001c47a59$222e1560$64fea8c0@chris1>

Forgive me if this as been addressed before.

Why is it that Rev 2.2 will run under Mac OS 10.1.5 but Rev 2.2.1 will not?
This is a pretty serious thing.  I have an app nearing end of production,
and we just discovered that this is the case.  Anyone have any ideas?  Is
there a workaround?  I supposed I could build it using 2.2, but there are a
few bug fixes in 2.2.1 that I need.

Thanks,


Chris Sheffield
Software Developer
Read Naturally


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/2004
 


From nnoydb at excite.com  Wed Aug  4 15:34:55 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Wed,  4 Aug 2004 15:34:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Advise on enterprize application + clustering
Message-ID: <20040804193455.6C2F21E423@xprdmailfe25.nwk.excite.com>



If one could replace the stdin and stout handles with sockets a fork could be executed for redundcy a pipe proxy can be created for the remote process (created via sshd ir what ever sheel system you wish to use).

I have been conversing with RR developers about this topic.

Kevin


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Wed 08/04, Pierre Sahores < psahores at easynet.fr > wrote:
From: Pierre Sahores [mailto: psahores at easynet.fr]
To: x at monsieurx.com, use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 18:42:38 +0200
Subject: Re: Advise on enterprize application + clustering

Grettings, All,<br><br>Le 3 ao?t 04, ? 08:01, MisterX a ?crit :<br><br>> This is getting interesting... A bit of everything to solve<br>> your problem (x's famous howitzer approach). The last part<br>> may be even more interesting than the first. Remember that<br>> enterprise means also redundancy and zero-downtime ;)<br><br>!!! --> Always have this in mind (aka : only ACID compliant RDBMS <br>back-ends are eligibles there). In respecting this basis, the <br>applications server will always be cleanly designed (with, sorry for <br>the possibles Java's addicts reading us, to the end, Tomcat, JBoss no <br>more suitables at all than Metacard or Revolution...).<br><br><br>> Unfortunately there is some risks of lock ups if not done<br>> carefully... But here are 3 things you could try:<br>><br>> 1)<br>><br>> In a three tiered cluster strategy, mentioned in a clustering<br>> class I had recently, there were three actors<br>><br>>   client -> server1 -> server2<br>><br>>   client -> server2 is not possible because of the firewall.<br>><br>>   but server1 -> server2 is fine and client -> server1 is ok2<br><br>An usefull ports translation strategy, always very suitable, even in <br>about proxying / firewalling applications servers...<br>><br>>   if client cannot use sql but can use client1's ports,<br>>   and assuming client1 and client2 can do the sql bit...<br>><br>>   then you need a port configurable client server networking<br>>   protocol.<br>><br>>   in brief:<br>>   RRclient -> RR on Server -> SQLserver<br>><br>>   between RRclient and RRserver you use whatever protocol (80!)<br>>   Best is to have your client ask their network administrator<br>>   to see what is allowed and for what purpose.<br>><br>>   If you saw the forms we have to fill in for these requests<br>>   at my office you would scream!<br><br>For sure very cool and secure from the cluster administrator's point of <br>view...<br>><br>> 2)<br>><br>> For the clustering part now... For a redundant server...<br>>   but you can have more than one server also...<br>><br>>   Run two instances of RR. Named RRServer1 and RRS2.<br>>   Now only one application must work with the port communication<br>>   at the time but you can imagine either that one is locked up,<br>>   not responding, or working hard. It would be nice to have RR2<br>>   take over the next client's server call...<br>><br>>   What you do, is create a temporary file called rr1alive where<br>>   you write a frequent log - the frequency is the timeout for RR2<br>>   to kick and start working.<br>><br>>   There's the case where the RR1alive file is locked by the RR1,<br>>   which should be working but which should be closing the file.<br>><br>>   (is there a FileLocked(filepath) function in rr?)<br>>   You can use the file's date from the extended files function to<br>>   see the date anyway.<br>><br>>   So if there is a timeout trying to read that file, RR1 must be<br>>   locked. Terminate the process RR1. Relaunch RR1 and give it the<br>>   hand when you finished the current client processing.<br>><br>>   Note: usage of a different log for operations than the alivelog<br>>   is worth the trouble. You could keep a log opened in the case of<br>>   a processing but the alivelog should be kept closed to see when<br>>   the last alive was logged to prevent a double server taking parts<br>>   each of the same client's transactions (this can be prevented ez).<br>><br>>   Since transactions with SQL could take a while and queue up clients<br>>   you could imagine that another RRx takes over while the other<br>>   apps finish their transactions.<br><br>Hum ! I like your proposal design, Xavier but why would we have to <br>reinvent the wheel of the "transactions manager concept" when we can <br>let Apache (on the in/out to public/VPN internet side) and the ACID-DB <br>transactions managers handle tthat all for our Rev's applications <br>server ?<br>><br>> 3)<br>>   The cherry on the cake<br>><br>>   Now, if RunRev implemented threading into RR for 3.0, we would have<br>>   this process written into just one server 
 application. It's one<br>>   thing that differentiates Java from RR...<br><br>That's mainly marketing... Even if unofficial, the JAVA 1.4 best <br>practices recommandation is to never exced 3 simultaneous bytecode <br>threads per web-services (aka : best to let dedicaded parts of the <br>system handle such kind of tasks, including the Posix kernel's <br>multi-theading features (very well suited under Linux), the Apache and <br>ACID-DB servers ones).<br><br>> BUT wait a millisecond,<br>>   requesting web urls is threaded and could be used also as a<br>>   transaction protocol for any client over port 80 couldn't it?<br><br>True. Apache is build to handle that all for us (in synchronious mode) <br>in opening a new thread for each incoming request.  By experience, the <br>MC/Rev applications servers are just best coached in this way than by <br>any internal transcript dedicated code and, because, the WAS works, in <br>practice,; always faster than the DB backend, there is no wait at all, <br>each transaction thread after an other.<br>><br>>   If well formed, im sure you can send xml or any data embeded into<br>>   an client-side html-form request on good old port 80!<br><br>100 times true !  Simplicity is there the best entry to build secure <br>and clean...<br><br>>   Using mysqlmgr in html, you can send loads of sql data via a form<br>>   to the server.<br>><br>> ;)<br><br>Cool and very "pedagogique" (as we say so much, there, in France) post <br>! Thanks, Xavier :D<br><br>Best, Pierre<br>><br>><br>>> -----Original Message-----<br>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com<br>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Andre<br>>> Garzia<br>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 00:08<br>>> To: How to use Revolution<br>>> Subject: Re: Advise on enterprize application.<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> On Aug 2, 2004, at 6:51 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:<br>>><br>>>> Andre-<br>>>><br>>>> I'd have to agree with Trevor here that a multi-tiered approach is <br>>>> the<br>>>> way to go. I think you'll have an easier time of it than trying to<br>>>> stuff everything into a giant rev app (not to mention an easier time<br>>>> doing maintenance in the long run).<br>>>><br>>><br>>> Mark,<br>>><br>>> Thanks! Already on that path! I just need to know how to make that<br>>> database library work in the mc engine... it's not there...<br>>><br>>> Andre<br>>><br>>><br>>>> --<br>>>> -Mark Wieder<br>>>>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net<br>>>><br>>>><br>>> --<br>>> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004<br>>> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL<br>>> http://studio.soapdog.org<br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> use-revolution mailing list<br>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> use-revolution mailing list<br>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>><br>><br>-- <br>Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores<br><br>100, rue de Paris<br>F - 77140 Nemours<br><br>psahores+ at +easynet.fr<br><br>GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70<br>Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33<br>Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33<br><br>WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP<br>"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From kkaufman at snet.net  Wed Aug  4 16:15:39 2004
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:15:39 -0400
Subject: revGoUrl and IE 5.1
In-Reply-To: <20040804193227.EEF119300D5@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040804193227.EEF119300D5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <0D962E3C-E653-11D8-B4BE-0003937052EC@snet.net>


> There's something fishy going on with the way revGoURL works and 
> Internet
> Explorer 5.1 on Mac OS X:
>

Just a thought: Could this have something to do with IE 5.1 in relation 
to the "Classic" environment and default browser preferences?


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Aug  4 16:32:32 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:32:32 -0700
Subject: Rev 2.2.1 and Mac OS 10.1.5
In-Reply-To: <000001c47a59$222e1560$64fea8c0@chris1>
References: <000001c47a59$222e1560$64fea8c0@chris1>
Message-ID: <17112846382.20040804133232@ahsoftware.net>

Chris-

Wednesday, August 4, 2004, 12:27:50 PM, you wrote:

CS> Why is it that Rev 2.2 will run under Mac OS 10.1.5 but Rev 2.2.1 will not?

I ran into this doing my presentation at the RMS - I had to resurrect
my laptop, got OSX 10.2 and rev 2.2.1 installed just before my demo,
and couldn't get anything to work. Afterwards, once I managed to run
Software Update and get up to 10.2.8 everything was fine.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug  4 16:45:16 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:45:16 +0200
Subject: Image format
In-Reply-To: <3CAF632E-E64A-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
References: <3CAF632E-E64A-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
Message-ID: <310124E5-E657-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Kon'ichi wa Furukawa-san,

> I would like to export the data of an image object in either PNG or JPG
> format in CGI.
> But when I do this, I get a corrupted PNG file. I use Revolution 
> Engine 2.5
> (which doesn't seem to support "export image" command yet).
>  Maybe "put into url" cannot be used with image objects?

Try this, which is a bit shorter, too :-)

...
import snapshot from rect "0,0,100,100"
export last image to file "imagedir/myimage.png" as PNG
...

Hope that helps.

> Takaaki Furukawa

Sayonara

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug  4 16:47:21 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:47:21 +0200
Subject: margins and tabstops
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bd36db938c54@[66.52.165.173]>
References: <52911858-E63A-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<a05100304bd36cb42b723@[66.52.165.173]>
	<34099AD8-E63E-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<a05100300bd36db938c54@[66.52.165.173]>
Message-ID: <7B7D3978-E657-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Rob,

>>> I have not tried this, but I believe you can obtain the same "out of 
>>> sync"ness by radically changing the font size of the field's 
>>> contents.
>> No, a tab at 200 is a tab at 200.
>>> You need to account for your margins and font size if you want 
>>> vGrids to change dynamically when margins &/or font size changes.
>> Only one size and font and style...
>> Please try it out by yourself, you have to see it ;-)
>
> Yes, I see it now, Klaus;

Great :-)

> If I didn't know better, I'd say the field is acting like a 
> right-justified column in a spreadsheet.
> Just as strange, if I make the font size large enough, the end of the 
> text before the tab disappears
> under the text after the tab.  This conjures up memories of 
> left-justified spreadsheet entries.

Very strange, isn't it?

> Is it just coincidence that Vertical grid is listed among Table 
> properties?

Dunno...
But "vgrid" was there long before "table" objects ;-)

> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From 36degrees at runrev.com  Wed Aug  4 16:54:30 2004
From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 21:54:30 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Image format
In-Reply-To: <3CAF632E-E64A-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
References: <3CAF632E-E64A-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0408042147130.27559@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com>

Hi Takaaki,

The reason you are getting corrupted PNG's is probably because you are
putting the image into a 'text' URL. You should do
  put myImage into URL "binfile:imagedir/myimage.png"

To clarify what's going on, if you put something into a 'file' URL,
Revolution will assume what you are putting is text and output the
appropriate end-of-line markers for the platform you are on. Using a
'binfile' URL will stop Revolution meddling in this way :o)

Some of you may have noticed the 'corrupt PNG messages' appearing on the
console in an earlier alpha/beta of Revolution 2.5 then this was the
cause... (Ahem) I kinda got caught out on this one when importing images
for revOnline...

Best wishes,

Mark.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
  Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees @ runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
       Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools

On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Takaaki Furukawa wrote:

> I would like to export the data of an image object in either PNG or JPG
> format in CGI.
> But when I do this, I get a corrupted PNG file. I use Revolution Engine
> 2.5
> (which doesn't seem to support "export image" command yet).
>   Maybe "put into url" cannot be used with image objects?
>
> > set the paintCompression to PNG
> > import snapshot from rect "0,0,100,100"
> > put last image into myImage
> > put myImage into url "file:imagedir/myimage.png"
>
> Takaaki Furukawa
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug  4 16:55:37 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:55:37 +0200
Subject: Image format
In-Reply-To: <310124E5-E657-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <3CAF632E-E64A-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
	<310124E5-E657-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <A32A62DA-E658-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Kunban wa Furukawa-san ;-)

> Kon'ichi wa Furukawa-san ;-)
>
>> I would like to export the data of an image object in either PNG or 
>> JPG
>> format in CGI.
>> But when I do this, I get a corrupted PNG file. I use Revolution 
>> Engine 2.5
>> (which doesn't seem to support "export image" command yet).

Sorry, did overread this completely...
Although i think this was in 2.5...? But am not sure...

Anyway, try this:

set the paintCompression to PNG
import snapshot from rect "0,0,100,100"
put last mage into url "binfile:imagedir/myimage.png"


Hope THIS helps :-)


Sayoonara

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug  4 16:58:05 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:58:05 +0200
Subject: margins and tabstops
In-Reply-To: <93BC4456-E646-11D8-8EB0-000A95DAEFDA@pi.be>
References: <93BC4456-E646-11D8-8EB0-000A95DAEFDA@pi.be>
Message-ID: <FB78E6E2-E658-11D8-85E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Patricia De Martelaere, (Wouter? ;-)

> ...
> Hi Klaus,
>
> May be you will consider this a work around but why not format the 
> tabs and use the tabs to show the text in the cell you want?
> like for example:
> constant origTabs = 30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30  ---- or whatever format
>
> on resetcolumns
>     set the tabstops of fld 1 to origTabs
> end resetcolumns
>
> on showcolumn x
>    get origTabs
>    put <widecellvalue> into item x of it
>    set the tabstops of fld 1 to it
> end showcolumn

Sorry, does not work for me, i just have an ordinary list-field.

Maar, hartelijk bedankt :-)

> Greetings,
> WA

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Aug  4 18:05:06 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:05:06 -0700
Subject: OT: Javascript to close any prev open windows
In-Reply-To: <45.124d7e14.2e4244dd@aol.com>
References: <45.124d7e14.2e4244dd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <13018400158.20040804150506@ahsoftware.net>

RGould8-

Wednesday, August 4, 2004, 6:55:41 AM, you wrote:

Rac> Does anyone know if a means in Javascript to write an "onload" handler that
Rac> detects any previously opened windows in Internet Explorer and automatically
Rac> closes them when the present html page opens?

JavaScript doesn't maintain a list of windows.
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/1460/fid/124

Aside from the social repercussions of closing a user's browser
windows, is there some reason you need to do this so draconically? I
think the whole idea of having separate browser windows is so that
they can be independently opened and closed. Of course, if they're
windows you've opened yourself from your app then you should be able
to maintain an array and close them at the appropriate time.

Otherwise, short of closing the browser and relaunching your url, I
think you're out of luck on this.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug  4 19:19:36 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 19:19:36 -0400
Subject: openbase connectivity?
In-Reply-To: <535923C4-E5EC-11D8-B4D1-000A95CEF6CE@keyoptions.com.au>
References: <535923C4-E5EC-11D8-B4D1-000A95CEF6CE@keyoptions.com.au>
Message-ID: <41116F08.6090007@fourthworld.com>

Rick Wylie wrote:
> Is there a database connection tool for Openbase?

There isn't yet, but Chipp and I had the good fortune of speaking with
OpenBase's CTO, Scott Keith, at WWDC last month.  Mr. Keith was very
intrigued by Rev's flexibility, and definitely recognizes the
opportunity it represents as an onmi-platform GUI toolkit for OpenBase
customers.  He said that they can't devote the resources to writing a
Rev API themselves he'd happily provide technical assistance to anyone
who wanted to take that up.

If one of you wants to write an external to interface with OpenBase
please contact me offlist and I'll provide introductions.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com



From tac at mac.com  Wed Aug  4 19:19:43 2004
From: tac at mac.com (Takaaki Furukawa)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:19:43 -0700
Subject: Image format
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0408042147130.27559@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com>
References: <3CAF632E-E64A-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0408042147130.27559@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com>
Message-ID: <C46A95D4-E66C-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>

Hi Mark,

Thank you for the information.
The file was still corrupt after using "binfile:", but I found out 
something.
I hexdump'ed the corrupted file, and obviously the PNG file did not 
have any
headers. But files created with "export" command (which is not 
supported by
Revolution Engine 2.5) do have headers. So it looks like "put into url" 
command
does not add any headers to the file to be saved. And I wonder if what 
kind of
format an image is in when the image is "put into url."

On Aug 4, 2004, at 1:54 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote:

> Hi Takaaki,
>
> The reason you are getting corrupted PNG's is probably because you are
> putting the image into a 'text' URL. You should do
>   put myImage into URL "binfile:imagedir/myimage.png"
>
> To clarify what's going on, if you put something into a 'file' URL,
> Revolution will assume what you are putting is text and output the
> appropriate end-of-line markers for the platform you are on. Using a
> 'binfile' URL will stop Revolution meddling in this way :o)
>
> Some of you may have noticed the 'corrupt PNG messages' appearing on 
> the
> console in an earlier alpha/beta of Revolution 2.5 then this was the
> cause... (Ahem) I kinda got caught out on this one when importing 
> images
> for revOnline...
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Mark.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees @ runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
>        Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools
>
> On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Takaaki Furukawa wrote:
>
>> I would like to export the data of an image object in either PNG or 
>> JPG
>> format in CGI.
>> But when I do this, I get a corrupted PNG file. I use Revolution 
>> Engine
>> 2.5
>> (which doesn't seem to support "export image" command yet).
>>   Maybe "put into url" cannot be used with image objects?
>>
>>> set the paintCompression to PNG
>>> import snapshot from rect "0,0,100,100"
>>> put last image into myImage
>>> put myImage into url "file:imagedir/myimage.png"
>>
>> Takaaki Furukawa
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Aug  4 19:49:01 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:49:01 -0700
Subject: image in htmlText overruns top of line hilited
Message-ID: <DC9BCE96-E670-11D8-8FCE-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

Hi,

I have a field with listBehavior set to true and fixedLineHeight set to 
false.  It contains htmlText and one line has an image which is 40 
pixels tall.  When the line is selected the very top 2 pixels of the 
image extend over the top of the hilite.  I've put a screen shot here:

<http://mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/imageoverrun.jpg>

I tried adjusting the textShift of the image but that doesn't fix it.  
I adjusted the textHeight to see if that would fix it and it does if I 
set it to 42 or higher.  This would be great if I wanted all my lines 
to be 42 pixels tall.  I don't.  So based on what I've observed under 
OS X this is what I think is happening and what should happen -

1) There is a 2 pixel buffer between the bottom of the line and the 
text baseline.
2) The engine is setting the height of the line with the image to 40 
pixels (2 pixels below the text baseline and 38 above).
3) Since the image starts at the text baseline the height of the line 
should really be 42.  When the textShift is adjusted this 2 pixel 
buffer needs to be added as well.

So does anybody have any further insight into this?  I'm I missing 
something obvious or is this a bug that I should promptly report?

I'm using OS X.3, Rev 2.5 b1.

Thanks,

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Wed Aug  4 20:26:09 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 02:26:09 +0200
Subject: margins and tabstops
Message-ID: <0CA24BA9-E676-11D8-AB1F-003065CC999E@pi.be>

	? 	From: Klaus Major
	? 	 Subject: Re: margins and tabstops
	? 	 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:57:17 -0700


-- snip
>
> Sorry, does not work for me, i just have an ordinary list-field.
>
>
> Maar, hartelijk bedankt :-)
>
>
> Greetings,
> WA
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Klaus Major


:-)
Sorry.
As I was not in front of my computer and it was something out of the 
top of my head, I couldn't test.
So here is the correction for completeness sake:


  constant origTabs = "30,60,90,120,150,180,210,240,270" ---- or 
whatever format


on resetcolumns
     set the tabstops of fld 1 to origTabs
end resetcolumns


on showcolumn x
   get origTabs
   repeat with i = x to the num of items in it
     add <wideCellValue> to item i of it
   end repeat
   set the tabstops of fld 1 to it
end showcolumn

Tested it on all kind of fields (list included) and it works over here.

Greetings,
WA

From bill at igame3d.com  Wed Aug  4 20:42:41 2004
From: bill at igame3d.com (william griffin)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 20:42:41 -0400
Subject: Game Design Doc
In-Reply-To: <20040804193228.1B88F9300D2@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040804193228.1B88F9300D2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5B61BDB8-E678-11D8-8292-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

Hello Folks,
Months ago I had the idea that a design document based interface
would simplify and organize the iGame3D production flow.
Much has happened since then and I can't seem to recall the 
inspirational
genius behind what I was trying to accomplish, resulting in the work I 
started needlessly gathering dust.

I now provide you with this incomplete work, in the hopes that it might
inspire someone to take things to the next level or in the least help 
you do something in the same vein.

http://www.igame3d.com/gamedesigndocs.zip
The download consists of the following:

GameDesignDoc.rev
This is heart of the concept, a Revolution based design document 
generator/input/asset management stack.
Memory is fuzzy but I believe it is based on the work of Darius Kazemi 
found in the included text document "GameDesignFlow.txt".
Basically I started to put in every detail of a game design document, 
with the intention
that options chosen within said document would in the end generate the 
necessary
components of an actual game. I know there is very expensive asset 
management software
of this kind, I've just never had my hands on such.
Currently this stack opens to the "objects" group, as thats where I 
left off with all
the options that came to mind for giving a game object properties that 
would in turn lead
to "logic requirements".

logiceditor030704.rev
This is the implementation of the concept for use with iGame3D by 
Tobias Opfermann.
It is currently very iGame3D specific. I include it as an example of 
what kinds of options
would be available after one picked several options in the above 
"objects" group.
I intend on improving this at some point in the future, after a dozen 
other things on the to do list,
and coming up with a logical way of implementing it into the production 
pipeline.

Ideally both above stacks, would be "engine" neutral, in that 
scripters/coders would
have a way of providing rules to give the stacks for generating scripts 
for game logic
be it in BASIC, Rev, LUA, Ruby, whatever.
Although how this is done is way over my head right now.

GoofyleveldesignTopDown.rev
This is just a collection of the game looking default icons provided in 
Revolution.
I thought: "What if you had a top down level editor using default icons"
As you'll see there is potential in these for mapping, logic rules, 
character positions and the like.
Maybe someone can do something with these, or use it as a spring board 
for their own icon designs.
These icons are a bit oversized for any clean UI, IMHO.

GameDesignDocDiagrams.pdf
This is a long winded educational essay on diagramming game design 
found on the net,
provided as a reference towards the goals I was aiming to achieve.

Comments, suggestions, and collaborations are welcome.

Mr Bill


From tac at mac.com  Wed Aug  4 22:19:04 2004
From: tac at mac.com (Takaaki Furukawa)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 19:19:04 -0700
Subject: export on Revolution Engine
In-Reply-To: <C46A95D4-E66C-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
References: <3CAF632E-E64A-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0408042147130.27559@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com>
	<C46A95D4-E66C-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D2CC391F-E685-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>

Does "export" command ever work (for images) on Revolution Engine?
The engine seems to stop with "Script execution error" whenever I try to
use the export command. Does "export" command depend on Quicktime?
I use Darwin version of Revolution engine.

Takaaki Furukawa


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Aug  4 23:06:38 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 22:06:38 -0500
Subject: Rev 2.2.1 and Mac OS 10.1.5
In-Reply-To: <17112846382.20040804133232@ahsoftware.net>
References: <000001c47a59$222e1560$64fea8c0@chris1>
	<17112846382.20040804133232@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4111A43E.8030403@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/4/04 3:32 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Chris-
> 
> Wednesday, August 4, 2004, 12:27:50 PM, you wrote:
> 
> CS> Why is it that Rev 2.2 will run under Mac OS 10.1.5 but Rev 2.2.1 will not?
> 
> I ran into this doing my presentation at the RMS - I had to resurrect
> my laptop, got OSX 10.2 and rev 2.2.1 installed just before my demo,
> and couldn't get anything to work. Afterwards, once I managed to run
> Software Update and get up to 10.2.8 everything was fine.
> 

Does the most recent beta run under 10.1.5? I don't have a copy of that 
OS to test on.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Thu Aug  5 00:18:43 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:18:43 -0600
Subject: export on Revolution Engine
References: 	<3CAF632E-E64A-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com><Pine.LNX.4.58.0408042147130.27559@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com><C46A95D4-E66C-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
	<D2CC391F-E685-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
Message-ID: <00b801c47aa3$4c680580$3fd4e6cf@WorkPC>

> Does "export" command ever work (for images) on Revolution Engine?
> The engine seems to stop with "Script execution error" whenever I try to
> use the export command. Does "export" command depend on Quicktime?
> I use Darwin version of Revolution engine.

I've been using the "export" command without any problems in JPEGCompress.  What is the handler that your writing.  Maybe if we look at it we can tell you what's going wrong.
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Thu Aug  5 00:39:33 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:39:33 -0600
Subject: Key Combo to Move/Resize Locked Items
Message-ID: <00c701c47aa6$354ec110$3fd4e6cf@WorkPC>

Is there a command or keyboard combination where I can hold the "alt" or "ctrl" key and have the ability to resize a Location Locked item?

It would be a great time saver as I'm getting tired of having to uncheck "Lock size and position" and then check it again after I've moved the object.
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  4 23:59:05 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 20:59:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040804193228.1B88F9300D2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040805035905.29770.qmail@web40501.mail.yahoo.com>

on Wed, 4 Aug 2004 
Jim Hurley wrote:

> Actually  you have solved my needs for a PDF
> exporter within RunRev 
> with your generous work allowing us to export RunRev
> graphics as an 
> Illustrator file.

I'm glad that you find useful that handler.
Notice, Jim, the pdf export handler is
almost identical to the AI export handler.

If you are using FreeHand, then i suggest that you 
use the pdf export handler because it solves 
some errors in the AI handler. 

FreeHand opens the PDF without problems. 
Ilustrator warns about an error and does not opens 
the PDF.

Read a previous post on this topic


Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Will spend a couple of hours with it (Linux,
> Panther).

Thanks Pierre. I'll look forward to your review.

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From tac at mac.com  Thu Aug  5 00:49:58 2004
From: tac at mac.com (Takaaki Furukawa)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 21:49:58 -0700
Subject: export on Revolution Engine
In-Reply-To: <00b801c47aa3$4c680580$3fd4e6cf@WorkPC>
References: <3CAF632E-E64A-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0408042147130.27559@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com>
	<C46A95D4-E66C-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
	<D2CC391F-E685-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>
	<00b801c47aa3$4c680580$3fd4e6cf@WorkPC>
Message-ID: <E74FCC44-E69A-11D8-9A9C-00039308EC44@mac.com>

Here is the CGI script. The export command works fine on normal 
(non-server)
version of Revolution, but not on Revolution Engine for servers (CGI).
  I'm using the Darwin engine, and "the version" returns 2.5. (Although
I downloaded it from
ftp://ftp.runrev.com/pub/revolution/downloads/engines/2.1.2/Darwin.gz
)

#!revolution
on startUp
   put "Content-type: text/plain" & cr & cr
   open stack "myStack"
   go to first card
   set the paintCompression to PNG
   export img 1 to url "binfile:imgdir/myimg.gif" as PNG
   -- "Script execution error" occurs
   put "Export complete!"
end startUp
"Script execution error" also occurs when I try to do

export img 1 to myImg as PNG                   -- export to a variable
export img 1 to file "imgdir/myimg.gif" -- export to a file

... and so on.

Takaaki

>> Does "export" command ever work (for images) on Revolution Engine?
>> The engine seems to stop with "Script execution error" whenever I try 
>> to
>> use the export command. Does "export" command depend on Quicktime?
>> I use Darwin version of Revolution engine.
>
> I've been using the "export" command without any problems in 
> JPEGCompress.  What is the handler that your writing.  Maybe if we 
> look at it we can tell you what's going wrong.
>
>
> Derek Bump
> Dreamscape Software
> ____________________________________________
> Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
> http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From alw918 at earthlink.net  Thu Aug  5 01:10:01 2004
From: alw918 at earthlink.net (Andrew)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:10:01 -0700
Subject: sound in revolution
Message-ID: <B4126979-E69D-11D8-8A06-000393DD0724@earthlink.net>

Hello, List.  I was just wondering where I could get more information 
about dealing with sound and music in Revolution.  Maybe someone could 
answer some of my basic questions or refer me to a very simple, 
beginner's tutorial.  (Well, not too beginners. I know how to import a 
sound and play it.)
1. What's the less expensive sound file in terms of space?  Wav?  Mp3?  
Any considerations for short or long samples?
2. How do you play/stop/open/close MIDI files from inside Rev?
3. Has anyone heard of .nsf files?  Can these be played with Rev?
4. In HC we used to be able to change the pitch and tempo of a sound 
file.  We could also play sounds on different "channels".  Is there a 
way to do these things with Rev?
Thanks so much
-A


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Aug  5 01:14:16 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 07:14:16 +0200
Subject: impossible menus
In-Reply-To: <20040805035905.29770.qmail@web40501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEPGGFAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Hi everyone,

Im working on my next tool plug in and experiencing a really dreadfull
feeling that I got no solution... Maybe someone here knows how...

I got a toolbar with some menu buttons. I've made some cool images to
color the buttons backcolor and hilite. So far it looks quick arse.
Last but not least, the card's backcolor was also set to a nice patter.

When you pulldown the menu however, the backcolor of the menu itself is
the pattern! To make tihngs worse, if you made the menu pulldown or popup
you get two different patterning results! Interesting...

So I thought I'd change the backcolor when the mouse is down and restore
the backpattern when the mouse is up! ;( doesn't work.

I thought I'd make the button not opaque, but then you dont get the hilite
pattern.

IS THERE NO WAY TO MAKE THE MENU STANDARD WHITE?

Sure, I set the backcolor of the menu to white... transparent with a
background
image...

Is there no more efficient way of doing this?

Somehow, in the middle of the experiment of change things to find a solution
I got it to work! Opaque, backpattern and white menu... But after one
change,
it stopped working. I have not been able to put it back how it was! Another
glitch?

Thanks for any solutions... As an option menu it works fine! But option
menus
dont have checkmarks, or disabled items IOW: even less standard...

cheers
Xavier


From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Aug  5 02:57:59 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:57:59 +0200
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040805035905.29770.qmail@web40501.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040805035905.29770.qmail@web40501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C99903EB-E6AC-11D8-B49B-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Alejandro,

Your "vector2pdf" stack works fine there under both Panther 10.3.4 and 
Suse-Linux 8.2 Pro (MC 2.5 in both cases).

The exported PDF files opens OK under Apercu and Acrobat Reader 6 
(MacOS) and under Acrobat 5 (Linux). They don't open under KGhostView 
0.13.2 / KDE 3.1.1 (Linux) and under Ghostscript 7.05.6 (Linux), witch 
popups an error message saying that the file has a corrupted "%EOF" 
marker or gaberage after the "%EOF".

Kind Regards,

Pierre

Le 5 ao?t 04, ? 05:59, Alejandro Tejada a ?crit :

> on Wed, 4 Aug 2004
> Jim Hurley wrote:
>
>> Actually  you have solved my needs for a PDF
>> exporter within RunRev
>> with your generous work allowing us to export RunRev
>> graphics as an
>> Illustrator file.
>
> I'm glad that you find useful that handler.
> Notice, Jim, the pdf export handler is
> almost identical to the AI export handler.
>
> If you are using FreeHand, then i suggest that you
> use the pdf export handler because it solves
> some errors in the AI handler.
>
> FreeHand opens the PDF without problems.
> Ilustrator warns about an error and does not opens
> the PDF.
>
> Read a previous post on this topic
>
>
> Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>> Will spend a couple of hours with it (Linux,
>> Panther).
>
> Thanks Pierre. I'll look forward to your review.
>
> al
>
> =====
> Visit my site:
> http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/
>
>
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

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"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Thu Aug  5 04:04:09 2004
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 10:04:09 +0200
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <20040802200657.3C6399300AA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD37B699.2433%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi Andrew,

>Hello, List.  I was just wondering where I could get more information
>about dealing with sound and music in Revolution.

This list is a great place to start ;-)

> Maybe someone could
>answer some of my basic questions or refer me to a very simple,
>beginner's tutorial.  (Well, not too beginners. I know how to import a
>sound and play it.)

So you know how to play an audioclip, right?

>1. What's the less expensive sound file in terms of space?  Wav?  Mp3?
>Any considerations for short or long samples?

You only can play MP3 if you use a player object. That will require to
reference to the file. I suggest you look into how to set a filepath by
script if external files are an option. (See about absolute and relative
paths in the Rev Docs) The less memory costy would be to use MIDI Files . As
these contain no Audio data they are really small. But you are dependant of
the Synthesis offered by QT or the playback engine... If you need digital
audio, try mp3 in a player object.

>2. How do you play/stop/open/close MIDI files from inside Rev?
Use a player. 

>3. Has anyone heard of .nsf files?  Can these be played with Rev?

Never heared of it. A quick google search showes me that these are Nintendo
sounddumps. I doubt one can play these without an external. Same with .mod
files. Even though I wish there was aa modfile player external. A free
library is around, I am just afraid wrapping it into an external is over my
head.

>4. In HC we used to be able to change the pitch and tempo of a sound
>file.  We could also play sounds on different "channels".  Is there a
>way to do these things with Rev?

Again, use a player. You can?t set the pitch, but the speed audio is played
back. You can have multiple players play at the same time.

>Thanks so much

You?re welcome.

Best,

Malte


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Thu Aug  5 04:18:34 2004
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 10:18:34 +0200
Subject: Key Combo to Move/Resize Locked Items
In-Reply-To: <20040802211202.E73D79300C2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD37B9FA.2434%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi Derek,

>It would be a great time saver as I'm getting tired of having to uncheck "Lock
>size and position"

Maybe using the messagebox to set the rectangle by script is an option?

Best,

Malte


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Aug  5 04:31:21 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 01:31:21 -0700
Subject: Key Combo to Move/Resize Locked Items
In-Reply-To: <00c701c47aa6$354ec110$3fd4e6cf@WorkPC>
References: <00c701c47aa6$354ec110$3fd4e6cf@WorkPC>
Message-ID: <p06100539bd37a097225b@[66.93.39.98]>

At 10:39 PM -0600 8/4/2004, Derek Bump wrote:
>Is there a command or keyboard combination where I can hold the 
>"alt" or "ctrl" key and have the ability to resize a Location Locked 
>item?

You can use the arrow keys to move such an object. Hold down the 
Shift key to move 10 pixels at a time. Usually this is quite a bit 
more convenient than changing the property in order to drag the 
object...
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Thu Aug  5 05:36:05 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 03:36:05 -0600
Subject: Key Combo to Move/Resize Locked Items
References: <00c701c47aa6$354ec110$3fd4e6cf@WorkPC>
	<p06100539bd37a097225b@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <000f01c47acf$a2281010$4dd4e6cf@WorkPC>

> You can use the arrow keys to move such an object. Hold down the 
> Shift key to move 10 pixels at a time. Usually this is quite a bit 
> more convenient than changing the property in order to drag the 
> object...

Ah, yes, I forgot about that little trick.

I'll probably just have to put it in as a feature request, but I figure if your editing an object, specifically a group, and it's location is locked, then you should still be able to move the object.  Oh well.
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Thu Aug  5 04:47:00 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:47:00 +0200
Subject: mac 2 screeners
Message-ID: <040399CE-E6BC-11D8-AB1F-003065CC999E@pi.be>

Hi 2 screen mac users,

Bug 1866 is closed with the following line:

> ------- Additional Comments From kevin at runrev.com  2004-08-04 17:30 
> -------
> We changed the IDE to prevent this happening so you couldn't get a 
> stack "stuck" underneath the menu
> bar on the Mac OS.  This is a feature, not a bug.

As I suppose a closed *feature*bug is not turned on again later, I 
throw this one on the list.

The feature is not to get a stack get stuck underneath the rev menu bar.
The problem is if there are 2 screens with different resolutions and 
bottoms aligned, screen real estate is lost.
It is not possible to put a stack window above the menubar bottom as 
they jump back .
On the second screen is no menubar where a stack could get stuck.
Wouldn't it be nicer if the code of this feature was changed to take 
the region of the menu bar instead of the bottom of the menu bar and 
free the space on the second screen instead of having to align the tops 
of the screen (and still lose some place)?
And for another solution I like 4wDeskView a lot (tnx Mr Gaskin)

(I know this is a luxury problem to some :-)

Greetings,
WA


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Thu Aug  5 05:14:24 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:14:24 +0200
Subject: libRMC PDF docs 
In-Reply-To: <BD36ABE9.2424%malte.brill@t-online.de>
References: <BD36ABE9.2424%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <D7EE4C30-E6BF-11D8-956B-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 04.08.2004, at 15:06, Malte Brill wrote:

> a first quick?n?dirty PDF is online:
>
> <http://www.derbrill.de/librmc/docs.pdf>
>
> please let me know if you need anything else.

BRAVO Malte! you understood the word "brainfriendly"!

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speadlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug  5 05:15:53 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:15:53 +0200
Subject: margins and tabstops
In-Reply-To: <0CA24BA9-E676-11D8-AB1F-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <0CA24BA9-E676-11D8-AB1F-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <0D3BE76F-E6C0-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Dag Wouter,


> :-)
> Sorry.
> As I was not in front of my computer and it was something out of the 
> top of my head, I couldn't test.
> So here is the correction for completeness sake:
>
>  constant origTabs = "30,60,90,120,150,180,210,240,270" ---- or 
> whatever format
>
> on resetcolumns
>     set the tabstops of fld 1 to origTabs
> end resetcolumns
>
> on showcolumn x
>   get origTabs
>   repeat with i = x to the num of items in it
>     add <wideCellValue> to item i of it
>   end repeat
>   set the tabstops of fld 1 to it
> end showcolumn
>
> Tested it on all kind of fields (list included) and it works over here.

I am sure this will work (somehow ;-), but not in my case!

I haved a simple list-field with a simple "mouseup" handler...
And some disabled buttons with fixed size (what else!) as the "labels" 
for the "columns"...

The "vgrid" will be at the right location -> the sides of these buttons,
but the text of that field is not, because of my 60 px left margin...

With a TAB set to e.g. 200, the text will go to 260, but the "vgrid" 
will display at 200

Now i just want to use the "vgrid" to prevent ONE column from 
"overflowing"
into the next TAB... (That's what i really want!)
Nothing less and nothing more :-) A simple but FIXED display!

If i use your technique, the whole field will be "out of sync"...

Know what i mean?


I am afraid i will have to use a fake listfield BELOW my listfield, 
remove the
wide left margin completely and FAKE again what i want to achieve ;-)

> Greetings,
> WA

Groetjes

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From patricia.de.martelaere at pi.be  Wed Aug  4 14:11:01 2004
From: patricia.de.martelaere at pi.be (Patricia De Martelaere)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 20:11:01 +0200
Subject: margins and tabstops
Message-ID: <A4A499C7-E641-11D8-8EB0-000A95DAEFDA@pi.be>

> 	? 	From: Klaus Major
> 	? 	 Subject: margins and tabstops
> 	? 	 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 10:17:44 -0700
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> did someone notice that the TABs do not respect the set
> margins of a field?
>
>
> Example:
> I have a field where i set the margins to "60,4,4,4" because i need 
> some
> "room" on the left side...
>
>
> But when i set the tabstops they do not "respect" the margins...?
>
>
> The tabstop STAYS at 140 or whatever and therefore i cannot use the
> "vgrid" property to display the text in the field correctly...
>
>
> Know what i mean?
>
>  Create a field with a wide left margin, set the TABS, put some tabs 
> and text
>  into it and turn on the "vgrid"...
>
>
> Et voila, completely "out of sync" :-(
>
>
> Bug or feature?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Klaus Major


Hi Klaus,

May be you will consider this a work around but why not format the tabs 
and use the tabs to show the text in the cell you want?
like for example:
constant origTabs = 30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30  ---- or whatever format

on resettabs
     set the tabstops of fld 1 to origTabs
end resettabs

on showcell x
    get origTabs
    put <widecellvalue> into item x of it
    set the tabstops of fld 1 to it
end showcell

Greetings,
WA


From lbrehmer at rof.net  Thu Aug  5 05:33:05 2004
From: lbrehmer at rof.net (Lars Brehmer)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:33:05 +0300
Subject: slavic languages
Message-ID: <74188F21-E6C2-11D8-8A39-000A9566DE9E@rof.net>

I am using rev 2.2.1, OSX.3.  Is there any way to use the Polish 
keyboard for text field input?  I've been looking in docs under 
language, keyboard, fonts and searching the revList database to no 
avail.  Help, anyone?

Lars


From tvogelaar at de-mare.nl  Thu Aug  5 05:09:29 2004
From: tvogelaar at de-mare.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:09:29 +0200
Subject: Error message "Object: value is not a boolean (true or false)"
In-Reply-To: <ce.4e1f43e9.2de4ed4c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <281F2A5C-E6BF-11D8-829A-000A9569E638@de-mare.nl>

Hi all,
I have a weird problem I can't solve.
I get an error message "Object: value is not a boolean (true or false)" 
when calling a custom handler. The handler doesn't expect a boolean 
value; in fact it never arrives at the handler code, because the error 
occurs in the call. But the call works fine in the message box.

A brief description where it occurs:
I have made an application with two stacks. The first is a 
login/password stack. The second contains the rest of the interface. 
This stack is hidden until the user logs in. The login button closes 
the login window and then the problematic function is called to adjust 
the content of the interface, so it will show what is appropriate to 
the login data. If the script would ever arrive there, it would reveal 
the hidden stack.

It worked before, but now it does it neighter in the development 
environment, nor in the standalone version.

Any suggestions?

Terry


From kkaufman at snet.net  Thu Aug  5 08:44:40 2004
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:44:40 -0400
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <20040805060035.97DEB9300CC@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040805060035.97DEB9300CC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3780094E-E6DD-11D8-878E-0003937052EC@snet.net>

1. What's the less expensive sound file in terms of space?  Wav?  Mp3?
If you are recording voice, you can usually get away with low bit-rate 
mp3s, as low as 32.  For music, I find a bit-rate of 64 to be a 
workable minimum, although it depends somewhat on the individual 
content of the clip.  Wav clips will be larger in file size.

2. How do you play/stop/open/close MIDI files from inside Rev?
Treat a MIDI file as you would an audio file: play them, etc. from 
within the Player Object.

3. Has anyone heard of .nsf files?  Can these be played with Rev?
I think it's a sound format for computer games; I'm not aware of 
QuickTime being able to open these.

4. In HC we used to be able to change the pitch and tempo of a sound
file.
See the Transcript Dictionary definition for playRate.

We could also play sounds on different "channels".  Is there a
way to do these things with Rev?
I *think* it's possible to have more than one audio player playing at 
once. Anyone?

-Kurt


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug  5 08:50:37 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:50:37 +0200
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <3780094E-E6DD-11D8-878E-0003937052EC@snet.net>
References: <20040805060035.97DEB9300CC@mail.runrev.com>
	<3780094E-E6DD-11D8-878E-0003937052EC@snet.net>
Message-ID: <0CAC56CF-E6DE-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Kurt,

> 1. What's the less expensive sound file in terms of space?  Wav?  Mp3?
> If you are recording voice, you can usually get away with low bit-rate 
> mp3s, as low as 32.  For music, I find a bit-rate of 64 to be a 
> workable minimum, although it depends somewhat on the individual 
> content of the clip.  Wav clips will be larger in file size.
>
> 2. How do you play/stop/open/close MIDI files from inside Rev?
> Treat a MIDI file as you would an audio file: play them, etc. from 
> within the Player Object.

QT necessary...

> 3. Has anyone heard of .nsf files?  Can these be played with Rev?
> I think it's a sound format for computer games; I'm not aware of 
> QuickTime being able to open these.

Nope... Unknown to QT...

> 4. In HC we used to be able to change the pitch and tempo of a sound
> file. See the Transcript Dictionary definition for playRate.
>
> We could also play sounds on different "channels".  Is there a
> way to do these things with Rev?
> I *think* it's possible to have more than one audio player playing at 
> once. Anyone?

Yes, but only via "player objects", but even without QT being installed!

No chance with "play ac xyz"!

Hope that helps...

> -Kurt

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Aug  5 09:33:54 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 06:33:54 -0700
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040805060035.BFE0C9300CF@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040805060035.BFE0C9300CF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110401bd37e58c676d@[66.81.132.28]>

>-----
>
>Message: 18
>Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 20:59:05 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Alejandro Tejada <capellan2000 at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [ANN] vector to pdf
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Message-ID: <20040805035905.29770.qmail at web40501.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>on Wed, 4 Aug 2004
>Jim Hurley wrote:
>
>>  Actually  you have solved my needs for a PDF
>>  exporter within RunRev
>>  with your generous work allowing us to export RunRev
>>  graphics as an
>>  Illustrator file.
>
>I'm glad that you find useful that handler.
>Notice, Jim, the pdf export handler is
>almost identical to the AI export handler.
>
>If you are using FreeHand, then i suggest that you
>use the pdf export handler because it solves
>some errors in the AI handler.

Al,

Thanks for this update. I will follow your advice.

Now after your triumph with "Vector to AI" and a "Vector to PDF," 
what will you do for an encore? Maybe "Vector to IPod?"

Jim

From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Thu Aug  5 10:31:42 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:31:42 -0400
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
Message-ID: <OF49B862D1.698920FB-ON85256EE7.004B1065@sealedair.com>

>>If you are using FreeHand, then i suggest that you
>>use the pdf export handler because it solves
>>some errors in the AI handler.
> 
> Al,
> 
> Thanks for this update. I will follow your advice.
> 
> Now after your triumph with "Vector to AI" and a "Vector to PDF,"
> what will you do for an encore? Maybe "Vector to IPod?"
> 
> Jim

"Vector to DXF" would make it possible to make CAD compatible software. 
That would be a nice encore! But let's achieve one dream at a time. ;-)

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Thu Aug  5 10:46:34 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:46:34 -0400
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
Message-ID: <OFED944416.CBC348EC-ON85256EE7.0050D063@sealedair.com>

>> Let me know if I can assist with testing or
>> providing sample PDF
>> files created with various programs.
> 
> Of course, if you could save these same set of vectors
> graphics as pdf from other applications, like
> ghostscript, corel, indesign, open office, etc...,
> you could compress all of them and send to my mail
> for inspection.

Alejandro,

I do not have the applications mentioned above, but I just tested your 
"vector2pdf.pdf" in the graphics software we use. It is called PackEdge by 
Esko Graphics.

http://www.esko-graphics.com

I imported "vector2pdf.pdf", and PackEdge converted the color pallette 
from RGB to CMYK because this program is designed for commercial printing. 
Then I exported the file out as "pdf2PackEdge2pdf.pdf". When both files 
are viewed in Acrobat Reader 6, the size, position, and layering of 
objects is retained. The colors display differently because of the RGB to 
CMYK conversion though. Over all, it worked great!

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From Meitnik at aol.com  Thu Aug  5 10:49:53 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:49:53 EDT
Subject: Check out "Universal Access: Computers That Everyone Can Use"
Message-ID: <12a.47ecde77.2e43a311@aol.com>

Click Here: Check out "Universal Access: Computers That Everyone Can Use"
<http://developer.apple.com/accessibility/universalaccess.html>
For over 20yrs I have wanted and waited for a computer company to understand 
whats really needed at the OS level to support Disabilities. Apple seems so 
far gets it. 
Please read, please ponder, and please support one and all. 

Thank you. :)
Andrew

From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Aug  5 12:06:57 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:06:57 -0600
Subject: Error message "Object: value is not a boolean (true or false)"
In-Reply-To: <281F2A5C-E6BF-11D8-829A-000A9569E638@de-mare.nl>
References: <281F2A5C-E6BF-11D8-829A-000A9569E638@de-mare.nl>
Message-ID: <79C617E8-E6F9-11D8-86D8-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 5, 2004, at 3:09 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:

> I get an error message "Object: value is not a boolean (true or 
> false)" when calling a custom handler.

> Any suggestions?

Check it in the beta.

If it does not work, Bugzilla right away.  A few weird error messages 
were fixed for the beta but some are still there.  I almost always get 
a weird message every time I click apply the first time after editing.  
In my case, it seems to be something left over from other things going 
on.

I don't have a workaround.  You might try a 'try' and if there is an 
error try it again.

Oh.  I know you said the problem is also in the dev env, but some 
things don't work in startup.

Dar Scott


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug  5 12:09:20 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 11:09:20 -0500
Subject: Error message "Object: value is not a boolean (true or false)"
In-Reply-To: <281F2A5C-E6BF-11D8-829A-000A9569E638@de-mare.nl>
References: <281F2A5C-E6BF-11D8-829A-000A9569E638@de-mare.nl>
Message-ID: <41125BB0.30209@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/5/04 4:09 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:

> Hi all,
> I have a weird problem I can't solve.
> I get an error message "Object: value is not a boolean (true or false)" 
> when calling a custom handler. The handler doesn't expect a boolean 
> value; in fact it never arrives at the handler code, because the error 
> occurs in the call. But the call works fine in the message box.

This is a spurious error message that was being sent in version 2.2. 
Upgrading to version 2.2.1 fixes the problem.

If you are already using 2.2.1 then we'll need to troubleshoot some more.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu Aug  5 12:35:42 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 10:35:42 -0600
Subject: slavic languages
In-Reply-To: <74188F21-E6C2-11D8-8A39-000A9566DE9E@rof.net>
References: <74188F21-E6C2-11D8-8A39-000A9566DE9E@rof.net>
Message-ID: <7E248358-E6FD-11D8-BB32-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Lars,

This is determined by what language support you have installed in the 
OS. In OS X, just choose the Polish input from the keyboard menu and 
you should automatically be able to type Polish in a Revolution field.

Devin

On Aug 5, 2004, at 3:33 AM, Lars Brehmer wrote:

> I am using rev 2.2.1, OSX.3.  Is there any way to use the Polish 
> keyboard for text field input?  I've been looking in docs under 
> language, keyboard, fonts and searching the revList database to no 
> avail.  Help, anyone?
>
> Lars
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Aug  5 12:42:12 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:42:12 -0600
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <0CAC56CF-E6DE-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <20040805060035.97DEB9300CC@mail.runrev.com>
	<3780094E-E6DD-11D8-878E-0003937052EC@snet.net>
	<0CAC56CF-E6DE-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <66C94300-E6FE-11D8-9702-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 5, 2004, at 6:50 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Yes, but only via "player objects", but even without QT being 
> installed!

Uh, do you mean QT must be installed?  Or do you mean QT need not be 
installed?

Dar Scott


From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Aug  5 12:46:12 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:46:12 -0700
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040805160048.384F59300BA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040805160048.384F59300BA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110404bd381163b41c@[66.81.132.28]>

Al,

There is a problem with  "line" graphics with an open segment in the 
PDF converter.

For example, a line graphic with with following points:

139,109
402,59
476,242

214,361
65,244

appears as if the open line were closed, i.e. as if the empty line were absent.

Did I make myself clear?

Jim

From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Aug  5 12:51:02 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:51:02 -0700
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
Message-ID: <p06110405bd38153f9c36@[66.81.132.28]>

>Al,
>
>There is a problem with  "line" graphics with an open segment in the 
>PDF converter.
>
>For example, a line graphic with with following points:
>
>139,109
>402,59
>476,242
>
>214,361
>65,244
>
>appears as if the open line were closed, i.e. as if the empty line 
>were absent.
>
>Did I make myself clear?
>
>Jim


P.S.

Al,

I should have said: it appears closed in FreeHand.

When I try to open it it Acrobat I get a error message: "Too few operands."

Jim

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug  5 12:51:24 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 18:51:24 +0200
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <66C94300-E6FE-11D8-9702-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <20040805060035.97DEB9300CC@mail.runrev.com>
	<3780094E-E6DD-11D8-878E-0003937052EC@snet.net>
	<0CAC56CF-E6DE-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<66C94300-E6FE-11D8-9702-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <AF8521FD-E6FF-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Dar,

> On Aug 5, 2004, at 6:50 AM, Klaus Major wrote:
>> Yes, but only via "player objects", but even without QT being 
>> installed!
> Uh, do you mean QT must be installed?  Or do you mean QT need not be 
> installed?

without QT being installed != QT being installed

:-D

QT does not necessarily have to be installed, although the REV 
menuitems may suggest this ;-)

File: New Referenced Control: QuickTime-Supported file...

> Dar Scott

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Aug  5 16:57:20 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:57:20 -0600
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <AF8521FD-E6FF-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <20040805060035.97DEB9300CC@mail.runrev.com>
	<3780094E-E6DD-11D8-878E-0003937052EC@snet.net>
	<0CAC56CF-E6DE-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<66C94300-E6FE-11D8-9702-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<AF8521FD-E6FF-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <0AE5D84D-E722-11D8-A265-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 5, 2004, at 10:51 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> QT does not necessarily have to be installed, although the REV 
> menuitems may suggest this ;-)

There might be some limitations.  From my reading of bug 1375, the file 
types for player audio without QT are limited and playing audio with a 
player object is incidental and not supported.

Dar Scott


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug  5 17:13:55 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 23:13:55 +0200
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <0AE5D84D-E722-11D8-A265-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <20040805060035.97DEB9300CC@mail.runrev.com>
	<3780094E-E6DD-11D8-878E-0003937052EC@snet.net>
	<0CAC56CF-E6DE-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<66C94300-E6FE-11D8-9702-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<AF8521FD-E6FF-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<0AE5D84D-E722-11D8-A265-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <5C2641F4-E724-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Dar,

> On Aug 5, 2004, at 10:51 AM, Klaus Major wrote:
>> QT does not necessarily have to be installed, although the REV 
>> menuitems may suggest this ;-)
> There might be some limitations.

Sure there are :-D

> From my reading of bug 1375, the file types for player audio without 
> QT are limited and
> playing audio with a player object is incidental and not supported.

> ------ Additional Comment  #2 From  Scott Raney  2004-07-05 19:51 
> -------
> The player object is designed to play video, not audio.

AHA!

My apps would probably not have been working in the last 6 years, if i 
had known this :-D

> Use the "play
> audioClip" command to play sound files.  QT has the nice feature of 
> being able
> to play WAV, but the default video player on Windows can only play MP3 
> files
> (because they're actually MPEG video files with no video in them).

This is new to me!

But i hade big success playing WAV (which is noit necessarily = WAV 
;-), AIF, AU
and MP3 as sounds and "AVI (even DivX) and MPG as video files on Windoze
without QT being installed (= NO QT ;-)

But i also cannot understand why some pcs do not install QT, but wanna 
have FULL
"multimedia" experience... OK, it is not MS...

> Dar Scott

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From cteno4 at earthlink.net  Thu Aug  5 17:18:34 2004
From: cteno4 at earthlink.net (cteno4)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:18:34 -0400
Subject: message box not functioning
Message-ID: <20040805211037.1F31E93008D@mail.runrev.com>

ok, im finally starting to move over to the rev programming interface 
from good olde mc programming interface. I have run into one small 
problem with a metacard created stack in rev is that i cant get the 
message box to function if any of my mc created stacks are set as the 
defaultstack. if i create a new rev stack and lock that as the default 
stack then i can send messages to my stacks via the message box if i 
append the stack name to the message (ie show image test of stack 
mcstack). but as soon as any of the mc created stack are the defaultstack 
then messages just go off to never never land. 

what am i doing wrong here? feeling a bit stupid here... thanks.


Jeffrey H. Reynolds
6620 Michaels Dr.
Bethesda, MD  20817

301.469.8562

email: cteno4 at earthlink.net
       cteno4 at aol.com


From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Thu Aug  5 18:45:50 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:45:50 -0600
Subject: Model stack that doesn't Stop Messages
Message-ID: <005501c47b3d$f5f25f20$5cd4e6cf@WorkPC>

I've got a mainstack that when it loads the "openStack" handler, it modals a substack that downloads a few files from a web server.  When it's done downloading it is to close and the main stack then continues with it's operations.

I'm experiencing a wonderful little issue now where the stack models, but the mainstack continues it's handlers and does not wait for the model'd stack to finish it's own operations.  So then I just get nothing but errors.  On top of that, the model'd stack is executing the "preOpenStack" and "openStack" handlers from the mainstack instead of it's own.

Any ideas on what's going on?  Here's the mainstack's script...

on preOpenStack
  put "ftp://****:****@ftp.valuworld.com/www/htdocs/supermallsystem/" into ftpAddress
  put queryRegistry("HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ValuLine Online\Customer Manager\ScreenRect") into newRect
  if newRect is not empty then set the rect of this stack to newRect
end preOpenStack

on openStack
  set cursor to watch
  -- Perform Downloading Operations
  set the dialogData to "downloadAccountAgent"
  modal stack "wsmTransferAgent"
  put the dialogData into theResult
  if theResult is not empty then
    put warnAsk("Error","An error occured while attempting to download the Accounts and Agents data.") into errorResult
  end if
  -- Perform Screen Update Operations
  showAgents
  showAccounts
end openStack


And here's the modeled sub-stack's script...

on preOpenStack
  set the thumbPosition of scrollbar "progress1" to 0
  set the thumbPosition of scrollbar "progress2" to 0
  put empty into cd fld "status1"
  put empty into cd fld "status2"
  put the dialogData into theAction
end preOpenStack

on openStack
  if theAction is "downloadAccountAgent" then
    downloadAccountAgent
  else if theAction is "uploadAccountAgent" then
    uploadAccountAgent
  end if
end openStack

 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From RGould8 at aol.com  Thu Aug  5 17:47:57 2004
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:47:57 EDT
Subject: Can rev create cookies?
Message-ID: <1d5.27dd9d0d.2e44050d@aol.com>

Can anyone tell me if it's possible for Revolution to create a cookie on Mac 
OS X that can be read by a web-page in Internet Explorer?   If so, do you have 
any code you could share with me so I can see how this is done?

From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Thu Aug  5 19:28:04 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:28:04 -0600
Subject: Model stack that doesn't Stop Messages
References: <005501c47b3d$f5f25f20$5cd4e6cf@WorkPC>
Message-ID: <007701c47b43$dc6a0f20$5cd4e6cf@WorkPC>

Never mind, I figured it out.

I had a handler who's name didn't match.  Thanks anyways.
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug  5 18:33:25 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 17:33:25 -0500
Subject: message box not functioning
In-Reply-To: <20040805211037.1F31E93008D@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040805211037.1F31E93008D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4112B5B5.9090406@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/5/04 4:18 PM, cteno4 wrote:
> ok, im finally starting to move over to the rev programming interface 
> from good olde mc programming interface. I have run into one small 
> problem with a metacard created stack in rev is that i cant get the 
> message box to function if any of my mc created stacks are set as the 
> defaultstack. if i create a new rev stack and lock that as the default 
> stack then i can send messages to my stacks via the message box if i 
> append the stack name to the message (ie show image test of stack 
> mcstack). but as soon as any of the mc created stack are the defaultstack 
> then messages just go off to never never land. 
> 
> what am i doing wrong here? feeling a bit stupid here... thanks.

Do you have the MC message box stack embedded as a substack in your MC 
stacks? That creates a conflict which acts as you describe. The easiest 
way to deal with this situation is to open the stack in MC and delete 
the message box substack from there.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Aug  5 19:58:51 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:58:51 +1000
Subject: Button script for "save as"
In-Reply-To: <1ce.27b694d4.2e424bc6@aol.com>
References: <1ce.27b694d4.2e424bc6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <665E12A8-E73B-11D8-8B9C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> Sarah-The script worked great-Thanks! Would it be possible for you to 
> comment
> the script so I can understand what each command does? I'm a little 
> lost.
> Thanks for your help.
>
> jack

-- the next script line just asks for a file path to save to.
-- it can return a new file (not written yet) or an existing one
-- it returns empty if the user clicks Cancel
ask file "Save stack as:"
-- get the result of the "ask file" command and store it into the 
variable newName
put it into newName
-- if no file path was returned, get out of this routine
if newName is empty then exit to top

-- save the current stack file to the newly selected file path
-- if there is an existing file of that name, this will
-- ask if you want to replace it
save this stack as newName
-- "the fileName of this stack" gives you the complete file path
-- to the current stack file
put the fileName of this stack into tCheck
-- tell the user what the file path of the current stack file is, just 
to confirm
answer "Stack saved to file: " & tCheck

Cheers,
Sarah


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Aug  5 20:23:27 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:23:27 +1000
Subject: New Version of Rev.... Executables
In-Reply-To: <40B94FD9-E63E-11D8-B5DE-000393DD0724@earthlink.net>
References: <40B94FD9-E63E-11D8-B5DE-000393DD0724@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D66271C8-E73E-11D8-8B9C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Andrew,

The only time I have had a Mac standalone refuse to run was under OS X, 
when I had copied the file and it's permissions had got messed up. It 
would bounce once in the dock and then disappear. Did you compress the 
file before uploading it? Does the person who downloaded it have admin 
access (although I'm not sure if this would make any difference).

Can't help with the Windows version.

Sarah

On 5 Aug 2004, at 3:47 am, Andrew wrote:

> Sorry to scare you, Ray.  :) But you're right.  Here is the Rev stack.
> http://ultimate.atomkinder.net/VillageIdiot.rev
> As I said, with the Windows standalone, you the keyup doesn't work.  
> And with the Mac standalone, it doesn't seem to work at all-- that is, 
> it doesn't work after I've uploaded it to my site and then downloaded 
> it as if I were a user.  This is weird, aint it?  But it is so.
> Thanks for any help you can offer!
> -Andrew


From Revinfo1155 at aol.com  Thu Aug  5 20:30:36 2004
From: Revinfo1155 at aol.com (Revinfo1155 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 20:30:36 -0400
Subject: Button script for "save as"
Message-ID: <629DFD4C.46AE8B46.3ED9C1B5@aol.com>

Sarah-Thanks much!

jack

From RGould8 at aol.com  Thu Aug  5 22:36:30 2004
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 22:36:30 EDT
Subject: Way to mimic what this page does?
Message-ID: <9.2ff777fa.2e4448ae@aol.com>

Can anyone tell me if there's a way to mimic what this web-page does in 
Revolution?

http://www.verizon.net/cookiemonster.asp?view=set

I need to see if it's possible to save a cookie in IE in Mac OS X, using the 
parameters that you see on this site.   I would define those parameters in 
Revolution and save them as variables.   I'd need to somehow pass those variables 
to something that saves a cookie in the same format that this web-site saves 
the cookie.   From what I've been learning about cookies, it's sounding like I 
need to be on the same "domain" when saving cookies as the web-page that 
reads the cookie - - - is that correct?   If that is correct then I'm clueless as 
to how you'd go about telling Rev to mimic "being on a domain" in order to 
save a cookie.   The good news is that Rev doesn't have to read the cookie - - - 
just write it.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Aug  5 23:00:45 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 21:00:45 -0600
Subject: Way to mimic what this page does?
In-Reply-To: <9.2ff777fa.2e4448ae@aol.com>
References: <9.2ff777fa.2e4448ae@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CFDD33EF-E754-11D8-900B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 5, 2004, at 8:36 PM, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> I need to see if it's possible to save a cookie in IE in Mac OS X, 
> using the
> parameters that you see on this site.   I would define those 
> parameters in
> Revolution and save them as variables.   I'd need to somehow pass 
> those variables
> to something that saves a cookie in the same format that this web-site 
> saves
> the cookie.   From what I've been learning about cookies, it's 
> sounding like I
> need to be on the same "domain" when saving cookies as the web-page 
> that
> reads the cookie - - - is that correct?   If that is correct then I'm 
> clueless as
> to how you'd go about telling Rev to mimic "being on a domain" in 
> order to
> save a cookie.   The good news is that Rev doesn't have to read the 
> cookie - - -
> just write it.

Maybe you can get IE to open a "web page" at a specialized port in the 
application, that is, connect to a server on the same computer that is 
really in your application.  The application sets the cookies.

On approach to the domain problem is to make the cookies widely 
available.

Maybe IE also allows cookie management by AppleScript.  Well, I said 
maybe.

Dar Scott



From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug  5 23:05:12 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 23:05:12 -0400
Subject: Way to mimic what this page does?
In-Reply-To: <9.2ff777fa.2e4448ae@aol.com>
References: <9.2ff777fa.2e4448ae@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6EE645F5-E755-11D8-9682-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 5, 2004, at 10:36 PM, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> The good news is that Rev doesn't have to read the cookie - - -
> just write it.
>

Maybe Ken Ray can help, he's proven that cookies can be used in some 
way in Rev, via RevZilla.

Of course, the bad news is that it reads them, not writes them.  ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug  5 23:12:13 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 22:12:13 -0500
Subject: Way to mimic what this page does?
In-Reply-To: <6EE645F5-E755-11D8-9682-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD38613D.2E0B%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/5/04 10:05 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> 
> On Aug 5, 2004, at 10:36 PM, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:
> 
>> The good news is that Rev doesn't have to read the cookie - - -
>> just write it.
>> 
> 
> Maybe Ken Ray can help, he's proven that cookies can be used in some
> way in Rev, via RevZilla.
> 
> Of course, the bad news is that it reads them, not writes them.  ;-)

Very true - and I think that's the rub. I'm just trying to access cookies
that have already been written by a browser for use in Rev... don't know if
that will help you much.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Aug  5 23:16:06 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 21:16:06 -0600
Subject: retrieving data from a sub-stack?
In-Reply-To: <79EA8A6C-BB4E-11D8-A8C7-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>
References: <79EA8A6C-BB4E-11D8-A8C7-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <F4C7AF87-E756-11D8-900B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Jun 10, 2004, at 8:24 PM, Rich Lague wrote:

> I can get it to go to the "RFP Importer" stack but I don't think it is 
> coming back to the "productEvals" stack. What is the best way to get 
> this working?

You can 'go back' and then close stack you came from.  However (bug 
1701), this does not work with 'lock screen', so if that might occur, 
make your own 'go back'.  I can look up what I ended up doing, if you 
need.

Dar Scott


From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug  5 23:20:34 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 23:20:34 -0400
Subject: Way to mimic what this page does?
In-Reply-To: <CFDD33EF-E754-11D8-900B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <9.2ff777fa.2e4448ae@aol.com>
	<CFDD33EF-E754-11D8-900B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <9416D586-E757-11D8-9682-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 5, 2004, at 11:00 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> Maybe IE also allows cookie management by AppleScript.  Well, I said 
> maybe.

Speaking of AppleScript, I've gotta say, since Scott Rossi posted his 
UberCool iTunes stack, I've been going nuts with AppleScript and Rev. 
I've never been able to decipher Xcode and AppleScript studio, but the 
combination of Late Night Software's "Script Debugger" and Revolution 
are quite a power team for elegant control of your Mac, and letting Rev 
control all of your applications as though they were one big app.

Incidentally, "Script Debugger" wins my all-time best script editor 
award. If RunRev wants to improve the script editing and debugging 
interface in Revolution, they should examine that tool. Closely. 
(Please. ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Aug  5 23:44:00 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 20:44:00 -0700
Subject: Way to mimic what this page does?
In-Reply-To: <BD38613D.2E0B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD38613D.2E0B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <9842532638.20040805204400@ahsoftware.net>

Ken-

Thursday, August 5, 2004, 8:12:13 PM, you wrote:

KR> Very true - and I think that's the rub. I'm just trying to access cookies
KR> that have already been written by a browser for use in Rev... don't know if
KR> that will help you much.

Of course, the cookies file is just a text file. You should be able to
read and write it without a problem, as long as IE doesn't put a lock
on it while it's running. The cookie format itself is fixed (or at
least as fixed as any MS product gets).

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Aug  6 00:03:27 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 22:03:27 -0600
Subject: Way to mimic what this page does?
In-Reply-To: <9842532638.20040805204400@ahsoftware.net>
References: <BD38613D.2E0B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<9842532638.20040805204400@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <91F22AD3-E75D-11D8-900B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 5, 2004, at 9:44 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Of course, the cookies file is just a text file. You should be able to
> read and write it without a problem, as long as IE doesn't put a lock
> on it while it's running. The cookie format itself is fixed (or at
> least as fixed as any MS product gets).

Yeah.  I just looked at cookies.txt for Netscape and it looked 
straightforward.  Maybe that for IE is the same.

Maybe a way to force an unlock is to force IE to quit.

Dar Scott




From bvlahos at mac.com  Fri Aug  6 00:24:55 2004
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 21:24:55 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
Message-ID: <91F587ED-E760-11D8-A1F8-0003936A2C42@mac.com>

For crying out loud, I just saw that someone has published a book on 
iTunes for Windows and is selling it in bookstores.

Isn't there some way to get Dan's excellent book on Revolution in 
stores too?

Bill Vlahos


From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug  6 00:33:44 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 00:33:44 -0400
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <91F587ED-E760-11D8-A1F8-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
References: <91F587ED-E760-11D8-A1F8-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CD49A762-E761-11D8-9682-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 6, 2004, at 12:24 AM, Bill Vlahos wrote:

> For crying out loud, I just saw that someone has published a book on 
> iTunes for Windows and is selling it in bookstores.
>
> Isn't there some way to get Dan's excellent book on Revolution in 
> stores too?

Convincing a book distributor that Revolution has as much appeal to the 
unwashed masses as iTunes?

Good luck with that one.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Aug  6 01:27:58 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:27:58 -0500
Subject: OT - Major league cool utiltiy for Mac OSX!
Message-ID: <411316DE.5080408@chipp.com>

I recently came across a cool new Mac utility (Panther only) which 
really helps me on my Powerbook. It's at:

http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net/index.php

It's called Desktop Manager and it changes the way you think about 
screen real estate. You can instantly switch between a number of 
desktops using whatever transition you like (I prefer the 'rotating 
cube). It reminds me of SWITCHER -- a very old Mac program written by 
Andy Hertzfeld (if you're old enough to remember THAT one, then you are 
a hardcore Mac fanatic;-)

I also am using a new version of uControl - a key mapping utility found at:
http://gnufoo.org/ucontrol/ucontrol.html

which now has the cool ability to be able to emulate the mouse scroll 
wheel on your trackpad. It's as easy as pressing the fn key and moving 
your finger up/down to scroll a webpage or document.

From cteno4 at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  6 01:52:46 2004
From: cteno4 at earthlink.net (cteno4)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 01:52:46 -0400
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 23
Message-ID: <20040806054449.37D6A93005C@mail.runrev.com>

Jacqueline,

Doh! thanks sooo much. makes so much sense now... felt so dumb after 
having worked most other differences out with just a little poking 
around, that one really was making my forehead get bloody banging it 
against the wall!

I am realizing that I will now have to have a 30" monitor to hold all the 
things i have open on my 1024x768 projects and their programming stacks i 
use along with all the revolution pallets! everything just fit peachy on 
the 21", but not now...

thanks again!

jeff

use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote on 8/5/04 11:18 PM

>Do you have the MC message box stack embedded as a substack in your MC 
>stacks? That creates a conflict which acts as you describe. The easiest 
>way to deal with this situation is to open the stack in MC and delete 
>the message box substack from there.



Jeffrey H. Reynolds
6620 Michaels Dr.
Bethesda, MD  20817

301.469.8562

email: cteno4 at earthlink.net
       cteno4 at aol.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug  6 04:54:21 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:54:21 +0200
Subject: Ann: GradientsN2O
In-Reply-To: <9416D586-E757-11D8-9682-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEAEGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


Well, after a cool moire program, I had all the code required for yet
another cool palette in the N2O series!

This cool tool creates gradients in images or across multiple buttons. You
can set the direction, color and luminosity of the colors, the color type
(fore, back, etc...), save the gradients (session only) and even choose
which controls in your selection should be colorized...

Download (a big whopping 40KBs), screenshots at
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=161

Enjoy
Xavier


From lbrehmer at rof.net  Fri Aug  6 04:49:54 2004
From: lbrehmer at rof.net (Lars Brehmer)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:49:54 +0300
Subject: slavic languages
Message-ID: <9685BD9C-E785-11D8-8810-000A9566DE9E@rof.net>

Thanks Devin, but:

This is the first thing I tried, but every character with a diacritical 
just shows up as a box.

> This is determined by what language support you have installed in the
> OS. In OS X, just choose the Polish input from the keyboard menu and
> you should automatically be able to type Polish in a Revolution field.

That's why I've been fooling around with unicode & html.  Nothing 
works.  And it's not my keyboard, because this works in all word 
processors.  Any other solutions?

Thanks

Lars


From tvogelaar at de-mare.nl  Fri Aug  6 05:58:11 2004
From: tvogelaar at de-mare.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:58:11 +0200
Subject: Error message "Can't find handler" (was "Object: value is not a
	boolean (true or false)")
In-Reply-To: <41125BB0.30209@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <200CC713-E78F-11D8-8B41-000A9569E638@de-mare.nl>


J. Landman Gay heeft op donderdag, 5 aug 2004 om 18:09 
(Europe/Amsterdam) het volgende geschreven:

> On 8/5/04 4:09 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:
>
>> I have a weird problem I can't solve.
>> I get an error message "Object: value is not a boolean (true or 
>> false)" when calling a custom handler. The handler doesn't expect a 
>> boolean value; in fact it never arrives at the handler code, because 
>> the error occurs in the call. But the call works fine in the message 
>> box.
>
> This is a spurious error message that was being sent in version 2.2. 
> Upgrading to version 2.2.1 fixes the problem.
>
> If you are already using 2.2.1 then we'll need to troubleshoot some 
> more.

Dar Scott heeft op donderdag, 5 aug 2004 om 18:06 (Europe/Amsterdam) 
het volgende geschreven:

> Check it in the beta.

I installed 2.2.1 and tried it in the beta. The described error is 
gone, but there is another one now. It says "Can't find handler"

I added a test function to both stacks with the same name to see which 
of the two is called. To my surprise, the one in the login stack is 
called! At least that explains the "Can't find handler" error. That is 
the stack with the executed script in it, but that one is closed at the 
moment of the call; the other stack should be the frontmost at that 
time and thus it should receive messages. Or am I wrong about this?

Is there a way to explicitly tell RunRev which stack should handle the 
call?

Terry


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug  6 06:43:36 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:43:36 +0200
Subject: ANN: SimpleFilePreview
In-Reply-To: <200CC713-E78F-11D8-8B41-000A9569E638@de-mare.nl>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEAGGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

As I really dont have anything better to do, here is yet another
release!

This one is opensource, freeware and full of cool features!

This stack serves two purposes:
1 Demonstrate how to read and write files in probably every possible way
2 Preview huge files that cannot be read in the usual text editors. (BBEdit
might do it, UltraEdit requires a bit of tweaking to avoid huge delays).
This stack does it in milliseconds ;)

Other cool features are
- the full file's information,
- buffered reading forward or backwards,
- a formatter that does ASCII or HEX (and a future formatter coming later
that will allow other formating styles but which is not fully finished in
this stack release).

Download is here and is only 15KBs
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=61

Sorry, no screenshot.

Enjoy
Xavier


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug  6 07:13:52 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:13:52 +0200
Subject: GradientsN2O
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEAEGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEAHGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Hello everyone,

Im quite distressed. Abraham sent me a screenshot of GradientsN2O on MacOSX
and it looks like as if I had been doing quite a mix of psychodelic drugs
last night (could be his screengrabber did too!) ;)

Two problems:
1) the menus use a backpattern is not sized to Mac's liking. I believe this
is because the size of the backpattern used in the menu buttons is not the
Mac "wanted" size (must by a power of 2)...
2) the left most button has a fixed size and changes its icons which are
different sizes. Why does it look like the icon size overrides the buttons
size?

Makes you wonder why it works so nice on windows without respecting any
sizes and why the mac must have these sizes or screw everything up...

After the major major pain I had making those menus work as they are
supposed to, Im just so discouraged to see this... I guess it will be a
Windows/Linux release for the moment. I'll fix those graphics later this
weekend if I muster the patience. Maybe a stupid plain backdrop for macs if
there is no better solution. Too bad for the cool hilitedpattern I pained
myself to do... Overide code for macs all over too... AAAARGH.

Is anyone using Linux that can confirm any visual problems?

Why must we limit our programming environments with such stupidity and
shortsight? OK, the Mac has it's old toolbox programming limits but must we
linger in these limits to deliver 21st century software? Is there no way to
have a mode of sorts that overides these bad behaviors/habits/limits?

Is RunRev planning to kill these limits soon?

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:54
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Ann: GradientsN2O
>
>
>
> Well, after a cool moire program, I had all the code required for yet
> another cool palette in the N2O series!
>
> This cool tool creates gradients in images or across multiple buttons. You
> can set the direction, color and luminosity of the colors, the color type
> (fore, back, etc...), save the gradients (session only) and even choose
> which controls in your selection should be colorized...
>
> Download (a big whopping 40KBs), screenshots at
> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=161
>
> Enjoy
> Xavier
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Fri Aug  6 07:03:44 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 07:03:44 EDT
Subject: IMPORTANT: Scripter's Scrapbook v4 Bug
Message-ID: <146.30155243.2e44bf90@aol.com>

The Scripter's Scrapbook v4.0
Important  Bulletin


If you are using the current version 4.0 of the Scripter's  Scrapbook, there 
is an unlikely but potentially important bug in a sub-function  of the File 
Attachments dialog window...

If you use the File Attachment  dialog's 'Save as' to re-create an attachment 
to you desktop, DO NOT select the  auto-launch option that is then presented 
to you. The bug, now fixed for the  upcoming release, can disable your 
Scrapbook in some situations. As a  precautionary measure, all v4.0 files have been 
temporarily suspended on the  website pending re-release.

The good news is that it does not corrupt  your program, there is no data 
loss is involved, and we can quickly fix it for  you if you send your Scrapbook 
file to us at the address below.

Our  sincere apologies for any inconvenience.

Hugh  Senior
FLCo
support at flexibleLearning.com  


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  6 10:10:47 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 07:10:47 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <CD49A762-E761-11D8-9682-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <6A241A40-E7B2-11D8-8BC2-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Thursday, August 5, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> Convincing a book distributor that Revolution has as much appeal to 
> the unwashed masses as iTunes?
>
> Good luck with that one.
> --
> Troy

Amazon.com has a small publisher section that would allow Dan / 
Revolution to sell his book from the Amazon website. His book would pop 
up for any requests for books on Runtime Revolution. Of course Dan 
would need to take a 50% reduction in earnings to ask for that level of 
exposure and the percentage of loss to him might even be greater.  It 
might be better to advertise the existence of his book and keep selling 
it direct. What you are really saying is that more Revolution exposure 
would be nice. Advertising could handle both issues and earn enough 
from it to pay for the print runs.

<mtml>
    <my two="cents" name="Mark"> 2 </my>
</mtml>




From dleyanna at rtl.org  Fri Aug  6 10:19:56 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:19:56 -0400
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <6A241A40-E7B2-11D8-8BC2-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20040806141556.33D5030AC3@mail.rtl.org>

Is his book "self-published"?, if so I can help save some costs because I am
a partner in a Printing On Demand publisher. We do ISBN and everything
including a listing in "Books in Print". I'm sure that I'm cheaper than
anyone else. PLUS we are on demand meaning that he doesn't have to buy any
up front inventory.

BTW how far has he progresses on the three vol. set? I purchased the
"Pre-pub" deal (option C) and haven't heard a thing since the pre-pub of
vol. one.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark Brownell
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:11 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely


On Thursday, August 5, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> Convincing a book distributor that Revolution has as much appeal to 
> the unwashed masses as iTunes?
>
> Good luck with that one.
> --
> Troy

Amazon.com has a small publisher section that would allow Dan / Revolution
to sell his book from the Amazon website. His book would pop up for any
requests for books on Runtime Revolution. Of course Dan would need to take a
50% reduction in earnings to ask for that level of exposure and the
percentage of loss to him might even be greater.  It might be better to
advertise the existence of his book and keep selling it direct. What you are
really saying is that more Revolution exposure would be nice. Advertising
could handle both issues and earn enough from it to pay for the print runs.

<mtml>
    <my two="cents" name="Mark"> 2 </my> </mtml>



_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug  6 10:52:28 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:52:28 +0200
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <6A241A40-E7B2-11D8-8BC2-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEALGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


Why not put an announcement in

DDJ.com
slashdot.org
?
Both put in articles for books about programming and 
have a wide audience of ahem, geeks...

Little is known or mentioned of RR or MC or hypercard anymore
but Wired.com has run articles on it in the past. 

Surely a small article in each will draw hords to both RR 
and the book. 

Then, there is the reference to the old HC handbook... Why not
use that?



> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Mark
> Brownell
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 16:11
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, August 5, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
> 
> > Convincing a book distributor that Revolution has as much appeal to 
> > the unwashed masses as iTunes?
> >
> > Good luck with that one.
> > --
> > Troy
> 
> Amazon.com has a small publisher section that would allow Dan / 
> Revolution to sell his book from the Amazon website. His book would pop 
> up for any requests for books on Runtime Revolution. Of course Dan 
> would need to take a 50% reduction in earnings to ask for that level of 
> exposure and the percentage of loss to him might even be greater.  It 
> might be better to advertise the existence of his book and keep selling 
> it direct. What you are really saying is that more Revolution exposure 
> would be nice. Advertising could handle both issues and earn enough 
> from it to pay for the print runs.
> 
> <mtml>
>     <my two="cents" name="Mark"> 2 </my>
> </mtml>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  6 10:38:49 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 07:38:49 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <20040806141556.33D5030AC3@mail.rtl.org>
Message-ID: <549A2F48-E7B6-11D8-8BC2-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Friday, August 6, 2004, at 07:19 AM, Dave LeYanna wrote:

> <answer><I don't Know> Is his book "self-published"? </I don't Know>, 
> <advertisement> if so I can help save some costs because I am a 
> partner in a Printing On Demand publisher. We do ISBN and everything 
> including a listing in "Books in Print". I'm sure that I'm cheaper 
> than anyone else. PLUS we are on demand meaning that he doesn't have 
> to buy any up front inventory. </advertisement>
>
> <I don't Know> BTW how far has he progresses on the three vol. set? 
> </I don't Know>
> <gee, that's not good> I purchased the "Pre-pub" deal (option C) and 
> haven't heard a thing since the pre-pub of
> vol. one. </gee, that's not good>
> Dave </answer>

I do ISBN too.

Mark


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Fri Aug  6 10:55:54 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:55:54 -0400
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <549A2F48-E7B6-11D8-8BC2-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20040806145154.694F030AD8@mail.rtl.org>

I guess I got carried away...

Before I get flamed, I withdraw any hint of profit making. Didn't mean to
step on any toes here. Withdraw, withdraw, withdraw, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark Brownell
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:39 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely


On Friday, August 6, 2004, at 07:19 AM, Dave LeYanna wrote:

> <answer><I don't Know> Is his book "self-published"? </I don't Know>, 
> <advertisement> if so I can help save some costs because I am a 
> partner in a Printing On Demand publisher. We do ISBN and everything 
> including a listing in "Books in Print". I'm sure that I'm cheaper 
> than anyone else. PLUS we are on demand meaning that he doesn't have 
> to buy any up front inventory. </advertisement>
>
> <I don't Know> BTW how far has he progresses on the three vol. set? 
> </I don't Know>
> <gee, that's not good> I purchased the "Pre-pub" deal (option C) and 
> haven't heard a thing since the pre-pub of vol. one. </gee, that's not 
> good> Dave </answer>

I do ISBN too.

Mark

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Fri Aug  6 11:14:37 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 17:14:37 +0200
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEALGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEALGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>

>Why not put an announcement in
>
>DDJ.com
>slashdot.org
>?
>Both put in articles for books about programming and
>have a wide audience of ahem, geeks...
>
>Little is known or mentioned of RR or MC or hypercard anymore
>but Wired.com has run articles on it in the past.
>
>Surely a small article in each will draw hords to both RR
>and the book.

One of the benefits of pushing the EuroRevCon has been just what
you are referring to...exposure of Rev to people who may have not
heard about it. Marketing a product or event is not easy and is
usually expensive.

The Apple Developer Connection Newsletter has carried
a notice about the EuroRevCon for quite a few issues.
The ADC newsletter goes out to approx. 200,000 people
according to Rod McCall.

For several issues the ADC has carried this announcement:
At 2:39 -0700 7/19/04, Apple Developer Connection wrote:
>
>European Revolution Conference
>November 14-16 in Malta
>http://www.techietours.com/Rev/


Having the EuroRevCon be a success is also important, we need a few more
people to sign on. If you are considering it please get in touch with me,
just as Dan SHafer did this week when he told me wants to come and will
be available to speak or otherwise do what he can to promote Rev.

atb
sims




From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Aug  6 11:05:44 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:05:44 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <CD49A762-E761-11D8-9682-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <91F587ED-E760-11D8-A1F8-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
	<CD49A762-E761-11D8-9682-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <17032E33-E7BA-11D8-BD1A-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

I'm afraid the bookstore route is closed to us for the moment. When 
Dreamcard gets enough traction and the software is available in stores, 
we may be able to convince some specialty places like Fry's to carry 
it, but mainstream bookstores aren't likely to touch it unless it comes 
from a major publisher or through an established distributor. Which is 
why Kevin and I have been working on trying to set up a publishing 
relationship on the series rather than cranking out more books for a 
handful of people to buy.

We're still at it.

Dan

On Aug 5, 2004, at 9:33 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 6, 2004, at 12:24 AM, Bill Vlahos wrote:
>
>> For crying out loud, I just saw that someone has published a book on 
>> iTunes for Windows and is selling it in bookstores.
>>
>> Isn't there some way to get Dan's excellent book on Revolution in 
>> stores too?
>
> Convincing a book distributor that Revolution has as much appeal to 
> the unwashed masses as iTunes?
>
> Good luck with that one.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Aug  6 11:06:31 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:06:31 -0700
Subject: OT - Major league cool utiltiy for Mac OSX!
In-Reply-To: <411316DE.5080408@chipp.com>
References: <411316DE.5080408@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <331B9AF1-E7BA-11D8-BD1A-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

That desktop switching stuff was one of the very few features of Linux 
desktop I found really useful. I'm going to look at this sucker.

dan

On Aug 5, 2004, at 10:27 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I recently came across a cool new Mac utility (Panther only) which 
> really helps me on my Powerbook. It's at:
>
> http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net/index.php
>
> It's called Desktop Manager and it changes the way you think about 
> screen real estate. You can instantly switch between a number of 
> desktops using whatever transition you like (I prefer the 'rotating 
> cube). It reminds me of SWITCHER -- a very old Mac program written by 
> Andy Hertzfeld (if you're old enough to remember THAT one, then you 
> are a hardcore Mac fanatic;-)
>
> I also am using a new version of uControl - a key mapping utility 
> found at:
> http://gnufoo.org/ucontrol/ucontrol.html
>
> which now has the cool ability to be able to emulate the mouse scroll 
> wheel on your trackpad. It's as easy as pressing the fn key and moving 
> your finger up/down to scroll a webpage or document.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Aug  6 11:21:21 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:21:21 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <20040806141556.33D5030AC3@mail.rtl.org>
References: <20040806141556.33D5030AC3@mail.rtl.org>
Message-ID: <456B4FB3-E7BC-11D8-BD1A-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>


On Aug 6, 2004, at 7:19 AM, Dave LeYanna wrote:

> Is his book "self-published"?,

Nope. RunREv set up a publishing group to handle it. In a sense, RunRev 
has self-published it. I own the rights to the eBook version and Kevin 
and I have discussed doing a POD deal but such a relationship can 
confuse the issue when you're trying to line up a "real publisher."

> if so I can help save some costs because I am
> a partner in a Printing On Demand publisher. We do ISBN and everything
> including a listing in "Books in Print". I'm sure that I'm cheaper than
> anyone else. PLUS we are on demand meaning that he doesn't have to buy 
> any
> up front inventory.
>
I publish another self-published book with CafePress and although I'm 
delighted with their service, promotion and marketing remains my 
problem, of course.

> BTW how far has he progresses on the three vol. set? I purchased the
> "Pre-pub" deal (option C) and haven't heard a thing since the pre-pub 
> of
> vol. one.
>
There have been a few posts on the list about this. Kevin Miller and I 
decided some time ago to turn our efforts to finding a "real publisher" 
to handle Vol. 1 and to put together a publishing plan for Vols. 2 and 
3. Meanwhile, I release occasional individual chapters (only two so far 
with a third in draft mode now) free to those who joined my RevPros 
community at the Leader level and $5 each to everyone else who is in a 
hurry for a particular chapter and doesn't want to wait for the other 
volumes to be finished en masse.

I will communicate with you offlist about your membership.


> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark 
> Brownell
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:11 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
>
>
> On Thursday, August 5, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>
>> Convincing a book distributor that Revolution has as much appeal to
>> the unwashed masses as iTunes?
>>
>> Good luck with that one.
>> --
>> Troy
>
> Amazon.com has a small publisher section that would allow Dan / 
> Revolution
> to sell his book from the Amazon website. His book would pop up for any
> requests for books on Runtime Revolution. Of course Dan would need to 
> take a
> 50% reduction in earnings to ask for that level of exposure and the
> percentage of loss to him might even be greater.  It might be better to
> advertise the existence of his book and keep selling it direct. What 
> you are
> really saying is that more Revolution exposure would be nice. 
> Advertising
> could handle both issues and earn enough from it to pay for the print 
> runs.
>
> <mtml>
>     <my two="cents" name="Mark"> 2 </my> </mtml>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Aug  6 11:30:14 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:30:14 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <6A241A40-E7B2-11D8-8BC2-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <6A241A40-E7B2-11D8-8BC2-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <831C93EA-E7BD-11D8-BD1A-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>


On Aug 6, 2004, at 7:10 AM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>
> On Thursday, August 5, 2004, at 09:33 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>
>> Convincing a book distributor that Revolution has as much appeal to 
>> the unwashed masses as iTunes?
>>
>> Good luck with that one.
>> --
>> Troy
>
> Amazon.com has a small publisher section that would allow Dan / 
> Revolution to sell his book from the Amazon website. His book would 
> pop up for any requests for books on Runtime Revolution. Of course Dan 
> would need to take a 50% reduction in earnings to ask for that level 
> of exposure and the percentage of loss to him might even be greater.  
> It might be better to advertise the existence of his book and keep 
> selling it direct. What you are really saying is that more Revolution 
> exposure would be nice. Advertising could handle both issues and earn 
> enough from it to pay for the print runs.
>
I don't have any problem with cutting deals like this as a rule and I 
certainly don't have an issue with this book, which has sold remarkably 
few copies.

There are two problems with going to amazon.com with this book.

First, fulfillment is still out of Edinburgh, which drives the cost of 
the book very high.

Second, to the extent that we enter into new contractual distribution 
deals we cloud the possibility of success with a traditional publisher, 
who is already going to be quite reluctant to work with us just based 
on the minuscule size of the potential audience.

If it were up to me, we'd use amazon.com and a bunch of other places to 
try to get the word out. But it's more complicated than it seems on the 
surface, at least until Kevin and I have either cut a deal or given up 
on the idea.

Dan

> <mtml>
>    <my two="cents" name="Mark"> 2 </my>
> </mtml>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  6 11:48:29 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:48:29 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <831C93EA-E7BD-11D8-BD1A-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <103F73E6-E7C0-11D8-898D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Friday, August 6, 2004, at 08:30 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> First, fulfillment is still out of Edinburgh, which drives the cost of 
> the book very high.

International shipping costs are almost a deal killer.

> Second, to the extent that we enter into new contractual distribution 
> deals we cloud the possibility of success with a traditional 
> publisher, who is already going to be quite reluctant to work with us 
> just based on the minuscule size of the potential audience.

Now I see why you went the e-Book way. Geeks already have their faces 
screen-burned so what's the diff. The e-book business has pretty much 
tanked. People want to have something to hold in their hands that is 
not screen related. Still these books of yours are part of the reason 
that some would consider using Revolution in the first place. Keep up 
the great work, and thanks.

Mark


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug  6 12:02:11 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 18:02:11 +0200
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEANGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Sims,

No doubt, the EuroRevCon is a great way for us to get together, and
buy discounted autographed books from our favority author. ;)

No kidding, I still pride my HC handbook 2.0! 
I got 3 HC books and Dan's the one that got the most leafing! ;)

However, spending dire marketing money on the ADC is IMOHO a big
waste. What is 200000 users when you can have double that with
a single post in Slashdot.org (/.) alone! Oh, I almost forgot, it's 
free and revisitable... However RunRev has not made much talk there 
and there's a catchup to do if you want the book to find even more 
success... 

Separately, in RunRev's case, I dont know how much /. banner ads 
cost but surely their success have to worth the money more than 
anywhere else... Question is how does RR want to market itself and
to whom... I started with Macs, dont get me wrong, but PC's are not
to be undermined - at 9x% of the market...

Consider that unix, linux, mac and PC users will visit /. while
the ADC will get the usual 10% attention, 5% response you get
from printed marketing... 

And /. is free... ;) If Kevin and Dan talked to /. ed. im sure they
could get a sweet deal... Dan and Kevin would get an audience interested
in RR and the ball start rolling not just in the Mac audience which
seems still to be the mainstream RR client.

Please correct me if Im wrong! 

my 2 eurocents
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of sims
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 17:15
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: RE: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
> 
> 
> >Why not put an announcement in
> >
> >DDJ.com
> >slashdot.org
> >?
> >Both put in articles for books about programming and
> >have a wide audience of ahem, geeks...
> >
> >Little is known or mentioned of RR or MC or hypercard anymore
> >but Wired.com has run articles on it in the past.
> >
> >Surely a small article in each will draw hords to both RR
> >and the book.
> 
> One of the benefits of pushing the EuroRevCon has been just what
> you are referring to...exposure of Rev to people who may have not
> heard about it. Marketing a product or event is not easy and is
> usually expensive.
> 
> The Apple Developer Connection Newsletter has carried
> a notice about the EuroRevCon for quite a few issues.
> The ADC newsletter goes out to approx. 200,000 people
> according to Rod McCall.
> 
> For several issues the ADC has carried this announcement:
> At 2:39 -0700 7/19/04, Apple Developer Connection wrote:
> >
> >European Revolution Conference
> >November 14-16 in Malta
> >http://www.techietours.com/Rev/
> 
> 
> Having the EuroRevCon be a success is also important, we need a few more
> people to sign on. If you are considering it please get in touch with me,
> just as Dan SHafer did this week when he told me wants to come and will
> be available to speak or otherwise do what he can to promote Rev.
> 
> atb
> sims
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Aug  6 12:20:37 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:20:37 -0600
Subject: Error message "Can't find handler" (was "Object: value is not a
	boolean (true or false)")
In-Reply-To: <200CC713-E78F-11D8-8B41-000A9569E638@de-mare.nl>
References: <200CC713-E78F-11D8-8B41-000A9569E638@de-mare.nl>
Message-ID: <8CF82D73-E7C4-11D8-91DD-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 6, 2004, at 3:58 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:

> I added a test function to both stacks with the same name to see which 
> of the two is called. To my surprise, the one in the login stack is 
> called! At least that explains the "Can't find handler" error. That is 
> the stack with the executed script in it, but that one is closed at 
> the moment of the call; the other stack should be the frontmost at 
> that time and thus it should receive messages. Or am I wrong about 
> this?

well, assuming I understand your setup and how your are thinking about 
it, you are wrong about this.  Ignoring shared groups (backgrounds), 
the message path  from a button, say, for a mouseUp, goes like this:

front scripts
button clicked
groups the button is in, if any
card the button is on
stack the card is in
*
its main stack if it is a sub stack
libraries
back scripts

(* There is a bug.  In the standalone, the libraries seem to be also 
here.)

Frontmost does not enter into this.

> Is there a way to explicitly tell RunRev which stack should handle the 
> call?

Look at 'send', 'call' and 'value()'.

Dar Scott


From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Aug  6 12:27:26 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:27:26 -0300
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEANGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEANGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <813D74EC-E7C5-11D8-B90F-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 6, 2004, at 1:02 PM, MisterX wrote:

> However, spending dire marketing money on the ADC is IMOHO a big
> waste. What is 200000 users when you can have double that with
> a single post in Slashdot.org (/.) alone! Oh, I almost forgot, it's
> free and revisitable... However RunRev has not made much talk there
> and there's a catchup to do if you want the book to find even more
> success...
>

Xavier,

can they handle being slashdoted... the page can go down... :D

Andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Fri Aug  6 12:41:39 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 18:41:39 +0200
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEANGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEANGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <p06110419bd3961e0d3fa@[10.0.0.2]>

>Sims,
>
>No doubt, the EuroRevCon is a great way for us to get together, and
>buy discounted autographed books from our favority author. ;)
>
>No kidding, I still pride my HC handbook 2.0!
>I got 3 HC books and Dan's the one that got the most leafing! ;)
>
>However, spending dire marketing money on the ADC is IMOHO a big
>waste. What is 200000 users when you can have double that with
>a single post in Slashdot.org (/.) alone! Oh, I almost forgot, it's
>free and revisitable... However RunRev has not made much talk there
>and there's a catchup to do if you want the book to find even more
>success...

Ummm...it cost nothing, zilch, nada for the ad in the ADC Neswletter.

A marketing budget for the EuroRevCon would be an interesting concept  ;-)
So far it has been mostly my time & effort...I must have missed that 'marketing
budget' meeting (joke there folks)  ;-)

Look forward to seeing you at EuroRevCon Mr X.

Ciao,
sims

From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Fri Aug  6 12:34:29 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:34:29 EDT
Subject: IMPORTANT: Scripter's Scrapbook v4 Bug
Message-ID: <145.3028cc39.2e450d15@aol.com>

The following did not appear in the Metacard  Digest vol 11 issue 7, nor in 
the use-Revolution digest 24 which seems to have  been skipped entirely...


The Scripter's Scrapbook v4.0
Important  Bulletin


If you are using the current version 4.0 of the Scripter's  Scrapbook, there 
is an unlikely but potentially important bug in a sub-function  of the File 
Attachments dialog window...

If you use the File Attachment  dialog's 'Save as' to re-create an attachment 
to you desktop, DO NOT select the  auto-launch option that is then presented 
to you. The bug, now fixed for the  upcoming release, can disable your 
Scrapbook in some situations. As a  precautionary measure, all v4.0 files have been 
temporarily suspended on the  website pending re-release.

The good news is that it does not corrupt  your program, there is no data 
loss is involved, and we can quickly fix it for  you if you send your Scrapbook 
file to us at the address below.

Our  sincere apologies for any inconvenience.

Hugh  Senior
FLCo
support at flexibleLearning.com  


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Fri Aug  6 12:45:40 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 18:45:40 +0200
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <813D74EC-E7C5-11D8-B90F-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEANGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
 <813D74EC-E7C5-11D8-B90F-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p0611041bbd396583ae24@[10.0.0.2]>

>On Aug 6, 2004, at 1:02 PM, MisterX wrote:
>
>>However, spending dire marketing money on the ADC is IMOHO a big
>>waste. What is 200000 users when you can have double that with
>>a single post in Slashdot.org (/.) alone! Oh, I almost forgot, it's
>>free and revisitable... However RunRev has not made much talk there
>>and there's a catchup to do if you want the book to find even more
>>success...
>>
>
>Xavier,
>
can they handle being slashdoted... the page can go down... :D

Bandwidth costs might put Rev out of biz.

Actually, if the EuroRevCon web page did get slashdoted I hope
it goes down immediately as the server fees would bankrupt me.
No joke there.

atb
sims

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  6 12:51:22 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:51:22 -0400
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEANGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEANGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <D8ABCEBE-E7C8-11D8-B73D-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Well, based on an n of 1, if it weren't for the sidebar ad on macnn  
(or was it macintouch?), I never would have heard of Rev.


On Aug 6, 2004, at 12:02 PM, MisterX wrote:

> Separately, in RunRev's case, I dont know how much /. banner ads
> cost but surely their success have to worth the money more than
> anywhere else...


From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Aug  6 12:54:52 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:54:52 -0300
Subject: OT (Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <p0611041bbd396583ae24@[10.0.0.2]>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEANGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
	<813D74EC-E7C5-11D8-B90F-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<p0611041bbd396583ae24@[10.0.0.2]>
Message-ID: <56502D3A-E7C9-11D8-B90F-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 6, 2004, at 1:45 PM, sims wrote:

> Actually, if the EuroRevCon web page did get slashdoted I hope
> it goes down immediately as the server fees would bankrupt me.
> No joke there.

So I must ask CmdrTaco not to publish the note I sent ten minutes ago?

*grin*

:D

Andre

-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug  6 13:32:48 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:32:48 +0200
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <p0611041bbd396583ae24@[10.0.0.2]>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEBAGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

hummmm... being slashdotted is not fun...

but it's a sign of power marketing... ;)

besides, with a clear description, this could be avoided.
I dont click on all the website links I see in slashdot.

being slashdoted usually comes with having big downloads.
uh... RR has them dont they ;))

Ready when you are Kevin ;)



> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of sims
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 18:46
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
> 
> 
> >On Aug 6, 2004, at 1:02 PM, MisterX wrote:
> >
> >>However, spending dire marketing money on the ADC is IMOHO a big
> >>waste. What is 200000 users when you can have double that with
> >>a single post in Slashdot.org (/.) alone! Oh, I almost forgot, it's
> >>free and revisitable... However RunRev has not made much talk there
> >>and there's a catchup to do if you want the book to find even more
> >>success...
> >>
> >
> >Xavier,
> >
> can they handle being slashdoted... the page can go down... :D
> 
> Bandwidth costs might put Rev out of biz.
> 
> Actually, if the EuroRevCon web page did get slashdoted I hope
> it goes down immediately as the server fees would bankrupt me.
> No joke there.
> 
> atb
> sims
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug  6 13:32:49 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:32:49 +0200
Subject: OT (Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <56502D3A-E7C9-11D8-B90F-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEBAGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

ROTFL ;)

what is Cryptome.org or lecanardenchaine.fr going to say now ;)

want more market but cant market it? ;))

Look at le canardenchained.fr... they want to sell news
but I wont buy newspapers (save the trees) so they wont
publish on the net, and I wont read it anymore... ;(

Catch 22?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Andre
> Garzia
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 18:55
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: OT (Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
>
>
>
> On Aug 6, 2004, at 1:45 PM, sims wrote:
>
> > Actually, if the EuroRevCon web page did get slashdoted I hope
> > it goes down immediately as the server fees would bankrupt me.
> > No joke there.
>
> So I must ask CmdrTaco not to publish the note I sent ten minutes ago?
>
> *grin*
>
> :D
>
> Andre
>
> --
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From nnoydb at excite.com  Fri Aug  6 13:31:03 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Fri,  6 Aug 2004 13:31:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: :=
Message-ID: <20040806173103.F39C53CF8@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>



Is there any kind of preprocessor/macro system so I can create my own assignment operator?  I would die right now for a := (since = is already used).



-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug  6 13:36:52 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:36:52 -0400
Subject: OT - Major league cool utiltiy for Mac OSX!
In-Reply-To: <411316DE.5080408@chipp.com>
References: <411316DE.5080408@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <34197856-E7CF-11D8-B470-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 6, 2004, at 1:27 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I recently came across a cool new Mac utility (Panther only) which 
> really helps me on my Powerbook. It's at:
>
> http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net/index.php

This switcher is really nice, however it discriminates by the window 
rather than the owner application. This means that parts of Revolution 
can be strewn across multiple desktops, and if you should accidentally 
use the doc to summon Revolution back to the screen, it doesn't bring 
all of it, only parts.

It also doesn't deal particularly well with multiple monitors. 
Functionally it works, but the cool transition effects only take place 
on one monitor.

Like you, I really want multiple desktops, as it is a good way to 
manage screen real estate, but it looks like I'll have to stick with 
Expose until someone gets it fully right.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  6 13:43:46 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:43:46 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEBAGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <2A8D4BFC-E7D0-11D8-9C3B-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Friday, August 6, 2004, at 10:32 AM, MisterX wrote:

> hummmm... being slashdotted is not fun...
>
> but it's a sign of power marketing... ;)
>
> besides, with a clear description, this could be avoided.
> I dont click on all the website links I see in slashdot.
>
> being slashdoted usually comes with having big downloads.
> uh... RR has them dont they ;))
>
> Ready when you are Kevin ;)

So host your big downloads at :
http://www.serverbeach.com/catalog/

2000 GB Bandwidth prices from $99 to 300 per month

... and slash away.

Mark


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug  6 14:17:02 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 20:17:02 +0200
Subject: :=
In-Reply-To: <20040806173103.F39C53CF8@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEBBGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

K,

there's contstant,global, local a=1
and put blabla into talk

and preopenstack|card to do assignements but typing variables
is obsolete in RR... equal is equal as they say ;)

Lastly, since transcripts are precompiled, 
I doubt this would run on a RunRev made app...

This is not your dad's C precompiler or macro assembler...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of K
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 19:31
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: :=
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any kind of preprocessor/macro system so I can create my 
> own assignment operator?  I would die right now for a := (since = 
> is already used).
> 
> 
> 
> -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
> Disclaimer:
> 
> Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
> employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
> coincidental. 
> Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.
> 
>  The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
> them
> is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
> the reader
>  is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
> (A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
> scope of this article.)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Fri Aug  6 14:45:03 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:45:03 EDT
Subject: [ANN] The Scripter's Scrapbook v4.01
Message-ID: <1ca.27d5b6d5.2e452baf@aol.com>

The Scripter's Scrapbook
v4.01
Released  6-AUG-2004


Version 4.01 of the free software is now on-line at  
www.FlexibleLearning.com/xtalk. 

If you are using version 4, you are  stongly recommended to replace it from 
the "About" screen of your Scrapbook at  your earliest convenience. If you 
experience problems, it may be due to traffic  as over 800 copies have been 
downloaded at this time and there may be some  digital congestion.

If you are using a version earlier than v4, you can  upgrade at any time and 
take advantage of all the new features, again by  selecting the "About" screen.


/H
Hugh Senior
The Flexible  Learning Company
Web: www.FlexibleLearning.com
E: h at flexiblelearning.com  


From briany at qldlearning.com  Fri Aug  6 15:18:38 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:18:38 -0400
Subject: :=
In-Reply-To: <20040806173103.F39C53CF8@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <6BB549EB-E7DD-11D8-B3FA-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

> Is there any kind of preprocessor/macro system so I can create my own 
> assignment operator?  I would die right now for a := (since = is 
> already used).

There isn't although you could conceivably write a plugin which 
intercepts the edit and save script messages, and modifies the script 
text accordingly.

- Brian


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  6 15:19:22 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:19:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040806160020.6A05E930124@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040806191922.64333.qmail@web40501.mail.yahoo.com>

Jim Hurley wrote:

>Now after your triumph with "Vector to AI" and 
>a "Vector to PDF," what will you do for an encore? 
>Maybe "Vector to IPod?"

I do not have an IPod, but accept any mp3 player
from the participants of this list... ;-)

But, i do not feel too triumphant.
This is more a scratchy start, than a problem
solved. The pdf file BARELY opens in Acrobat. ;-))

>There is a problem with  "line" graphics with an open

>segment in the PDF converter.

>For example, a line graphic with following 
>points:

>139,109
>402,59
>476,242

>214,361
>65,244

>appears as if the open line were closed, i.e. as if
>the empty line were absent.

>Did I make myself clear?

Ah, yes. This is an exceptional case
that will require some new code to handle.

Thanks for pointing this, Jim!

It'll be needed to represent each segment as a 
new vector graphic.

I'll start working on this today, with the 
vector figures from the stack "Rotater". 

If you could add this code, Jim, then please do.
Probably you are working in the graphics for your
book and need this now or as soon as possible. 

If you need more specific help, then
write me off-list. I think that some custom code
to save a sequence of vector animation as : 
file01.pdf,file02.pdf,etc could be really useful
later on the road.

>I should have said: it appears closed in FreeHand.

>When I try to open it it Acrobat I get a error 
>message: "Too few operands."

I suspect that Acrobat is complaining about 
empty lines.

FreeHand uses a very relaxed interpretation of
pdf files, closely related to the way the program
"PackEdge" deals with pdf files, extracting only
the objects useful for screen representation.

Pierre Sahores wrote:

>Your "vector2pdf" stack works fine there under 
>both Panther 10.3.4 and Suse-Linux 8.2 Pro 
>(MC 2.5 in both cases).
>The exported PDF files opens OK under Apercu and 
>Acrobat Reader 6 (MacOS) and under Acrobat 5 (Linux).

Good news!!! :-))

>They don't open under KGhostView 0.13.2 / KDE 3.1.1 
>(Linux) and under Ghostscript 7.05.6 (Linux), witch 
>popups an error message saying that the file has a 
>corrupted "%EOF" marker or gaberage after the "%EOF".

An error message! This is as valuable as gold,
given that most readers do not returns useful
information when they found an error.

Probably there is two or more chars after "%EOF"
I bet they are linefeeds.

Roger.E.Eller wrote:

>"Vector to DXF" would make it possible to make CAD 
>compatible software. 

Actually, i do not have CAD software to test this
conversion. Is DXF written as ascii text?

>I imported "vector2pdf.pdf", and PackEdge 
>converted the color pallette 
>from RGB to CMYK because this program is 
>designed for commercial printing. 

Not only changed from rgb to cmyk, but it
literally rebuild the pdf around the objects.

This is a great pdf fixer application!

>Then I exported the file out 
>as "pdf2PackEdge2pdf.pdf". 

Thanks for sending this file.
Now I have 8 different pdf files from the
same set of vector graphics.

Actually, i have almost solved the ascii85
encoding issue.

More important is that i've found and
downloaded the pdf reference 1.1, 1.2, 
1.3, 1.4 and 1.5 from diverse websites.

First reference manual (1.1) is a must read
to understand the format.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback.
i'll keep you posted on fixes to this code.

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Aug  6 15:41:07 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 15:41:07 -0400
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <17032E33-E7BA-11D8-BD1A-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <91F587ED-E760-11D8-A1F8-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
	<CD49A762-E761-11D8-9682-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<17032E33-E7BA-11D8-BD1A-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4113DED3.105@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> I'm afraid the bookstore route is closed to us for the moment. When 
> Dreamcard gets enough traction and the software is available in stores, 
> we may be able to convince some specialty places like Fry's to carry it, 
> but mainstream bookstores aren't likely to touch it unless it comes from 
> a major publisher or through an established distributor.

Why is this necessarily limited to DreamCard?

There are books on many professional development tools, including 
Director, RealBASIC, and others, at a great many mainstream bookstores.

Wouldn't the award-winning pro Rev product be worth marketing?  With the 
higher margins I would think it would be even more so....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  6 15:45:34 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:45:34 -0400
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <4113DED3.105@fourthworld.com>
References: <91F587ED-E760-11D8-A1F8-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
	<CD49A762-E761-11D8-9682-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<17032E33-E7BA-11D8-BD1A-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4113DED3.105@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <2EA772FE-E7E1-11D8-B73D-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

My suspicion is that the key phrase in all this is "[w]hen...the 
software is available in stores."  I wonder whether any thought has 
been given to marketing Rev through mail order/online shops as well as 
brick and mortar shops>

On Aug 6, 2004, at 3:41 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> I'm afraid the bookstore route is closed to us for the moment. When 
>> Dreamcard gets enough traction and the software is available in 
>> stores, we may be able to convince some specialty places like Fry's 
>> to carry it, but mainstream bookstores aren't likely to touch it 
>> unless it comes from a major publisher or through an established 
>> distributor.
>
> Why is this necessarily limited to DreamCard?
>
> There are books on many professional development tools, including 
> Director, RealBASIC, and others, at a great many mainstream 
> bookstores.
>
> Wouldn't the award-winning pro Rev product be worth marketing?  With 
> the higher margins I would think it would be even more so....


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Fri Aug  6 16:40:33 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:40:33 -0400
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf
Message-ID: <OF0982D22B.C7CCB548-ON85256EE8.0070AB67@sealedair.com>

Alejandro,

> Actually, i do not have CAD software to test this
> conversion. Is DXF written as ascii text?

In its simplest form, DXF can be ascii only. The DXF CAD file format 
appears to be well documented at myfileformats.com.

http://myfileformats.com/search.php?name=dxf

There are numerous freeware and/or shareware CAD programs that will import 
DXF files that would serve well as a viewer during development.

Regards,
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Aug  6 17:54:03 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 22:54:03 +0100
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEANGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>

At 18:02 06/08/2004 +0200, MisterX wrote:

>However, spending dire marketing money on the ADC is IMOHO a big
>waste. What is 200000 users when you can have double that with
>a single post in Slashdot.org (/.) alone! Oh, I almost forgot, it's
>free and revisitable... However RunRev has not made much talk there
>and there's a catchup to do if you want the book to find even more
>success...

Well, I found RunRev through a link from /. (it might have been indirect - 
a /. link to someone's weblog talking about different scripting languages, 
and it mentioned Revolution - don't remember now).

>Separately, in RunRev's case, I dont know how much /. banner ads
>cost but surely their success have to worth the money more than
>anywhere else... Question is how does RR want to market itself and
>to whom... I started with Macs, dont get me wrong, but PC's are not
>to be undermined - at 9x% of the market...

I did find the Mac-orientation of Revolution a bit off-putting at first. 
Hypercard (and Applescript, and QT and ...) are mentioned so often, and so 
much discussion includes Mac mentions, that I did wonder initially just how 
"cross-platform" Rev would be - or whether it was really 80% a Mac 
application, with a token ability to run on other platforms. The apparent 
focus on Mac/Apple (conferences, Macworld announcements, etc.) could easily 
"scare" Windows (or Unix/Linux) users. I think it would be a good idea for 
some "balancing" if possible.

[ Occasionally, I still think there's too much Mac focus - but I'll keep 
that argument for another day when my skin is feeling thicker :- ]

-- Alex.

From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Aug  6 18:44:15 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:44:15 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <4113DED3.105@fourthworld.com>
References: <91F587ED-E760-11D8-A1F8-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
	<CD49A762-E761-11D8-9682-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<17032E33-E7BA-11D8-BD1A-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4113DED3.105@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <24B1E32C-E7FA-11D8-AEE2-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Richard....

Of course if RevPro gets enough market traction (i.e., a large enough 
installed base) then a publisher would be interested. As of now, it 
seems to me that it is far more likely that Dreamcard will achieve that 
level of market penetration sooner because it is going to be sold in a 
more mainstream way rather than through narrower dev channels.

Dan

On Aug 6, 2004, at 12:41 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> I'm afraid the bookstore route is closed to us for the moment. When 
>> Dreamcard gets enough traction and the software is available in 
>> stores, we may be able to convince some specialty places like Fry's 
>> to carry it, but mainstream bookstores aren't likely to touch it 
>> unless it comes from a major publisher or through an established 
>> distributor.
>
> Why is this necessarily limited to DreamCard?
>
> There are books on many professional development tools, including 
> Director, RealBASIC, and others, at a great many mainstream 
> bookstores.
>
> Wouldn't the award-winning pro Rev product be worth marketing?  With 
> the higher margins I would think it would be even more so....
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Fri Aug  6 20:32:10 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 18:32:10 -0600
Subject: Hide Taskbar
Message-ID: <001201c47c15$fb4c3710$7dd4e6cf@WorkPC>

I have a stack that resizes to the screenRect(), but after that's done and the "show taskbar" command is issued, the taskbar doesn't show.

Is there any way to disable Revolution from hiding the taskbar when it resizes to the screenRect()?
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Aug  6 19:46:38 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 18:46:38 -0500
Subject: Hide Taskbar
In-Reply-To: <001201c47c15$fb4c3710$7dd4e6cf@WorkPC>
References: <001201c47c15$fb4c3710$7dd4e6cf@WorkPC>
Message-ID: <4114185E.8010001@chipp.com>

check out the windowBoundingRect...it is correctly set in standalones 
(though RR's IDE resets it so it's tough to use from within the IDE)

-Chipp

Derek Bump wrote:

> I have a stack that resizes to the screenRect(), but after that's done and the "show taskbar" command is issued, the taskbar doesn't show.
> 
> Is there any way to disable Revolution from hiding the taskbar when it resizes to the screenRect()?
>  
> 
> Derek Bump
> Dreamscape Software
> ____________________________________________
> Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
> http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
>  
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Fri Aug  6 21:01:31 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:01:31 -0600
Subject: Hide Taskbar
References: <001201c47c15$fb4c3710$7dd4e6cf@WorkPC>
	<4114185E.8010001@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <002701c47c1a$194b5da0$7dd4e6cf@WorkPC>

> check out the windowBoundingRect...it is correctly set in standalones 
> (though RR's IDE resets it so it's tough to use from within the IDE)

Ok, so does the windowBoundingRect adjust for the different sizes of the taskbar?  Is there anything in the IDE that will return the height of the taskbar?
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug  6 23:47:14 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 23:47:14 -0400
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 6, 2004, at 5:54 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> I did find the Mac-orientation of Revolution a bit off-putting at 
> first. Hypercard (and Applescript, and QT and ...) are mentioned so 
> often, and so much discussion includes Mac mentions, that I did wonder 
> initially just how "cross-platform" Rev would be - or whether it was 
> really 80% a Mac application, with a token ability to run on other 
> platforms. The apparent focus on Mac/Apple (conferences, Macworld 
> announcements, etc.) could easily "scare" Windows (or Unix/Linux) 
> users. I think it would be a good idea for some "balancing" if 
> possible.

I think that this isn't an issue of Windows versus Mac, but one of 
Windows developers versus Mac developers. One of Rev's greatest 
strengths and marketable features is its inherently multi-platform 
nature. A feature that Windows developers generally don't give a whit 
about. Windows developers (typically) are not Mac savvy, and don't even 
consider developing anything for Mac. In fact, your initial reaction 
would be typical, I think. Why mess up an IDE and scripting language 
with all that Mac oriented rubbish? What's with this plain English 
programming?

Mac developers, on the other hand, know well that they generally *must* 
develop for Windows in order for their products to be seriously 
marketable to the general public. Virtually all Mac developers that I 
know (Hypercarders excepted) develop multi-platform, and look for 
multi-platform tools to develop with. Windows users are not 
specifically looking for multi-platform tools, they are looking for the 
tools with the most advanced Windows features they can find. There is 
an argument to be had that Rev is somewhat limited in advanced Windows 
features because of its well-balanced multi-platform feature set.

I'm not saying one approach is better or worse, each developer needs to 
choose that for themselves. I'm just making the point that *if* Rev's 
focus has any bias to Mac at all, it is because the Mac developers are 
very receptive to their offerings, needing such tools perhaps more than 
Windows developers. Windows developers are certainly not scrambling to 
find a HyperCard replacement, for instance.

Which is a long way of saying that I assess that RunRev is trying to 
appeal, at least initially, to those most receptive to what they have 
to offer. Hypercard and Applescript are often mentioned because the 
languages are virtually identical to Transcript... and all three are a 
loooong way from VB Script. QuickTime is mentioned because it is the 
primary media engine on both platforms for Revolution, as it is the 
only truly cross-platform media solution.

Marketing Revolution to Mac developers is easy. Marketing it to Windows 
developers (other than a certain segment) is swimming against the tide. 
It can be done, but it is certainly a harder road to travel. There is a 
lot more "education" to do, in order to get Windows developers to 
recognize the value... if in fact, it does have value to them over 
their current tools.

>
> [ Occasionally, I still think there's too much Mac focus - but I'll 
> keep that argument for another day when my skin is feeling thicker :- 
> ]

Ah, OK. Standing-by.  ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug  7 00:15:50 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 21:15:50 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <77276AE0-E828-11D8-AA91-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Troy....

That is one of the best, most cogent, clear pieces of explanation of 
this phenomenon that I've seen. I've been saying this for a lot of 
years. It seems quite clear to me that you're right, but there are 
still people who don't see it our way!

Dan


From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Aug  7 01:15:00 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 00:15:00 -0500
Subject: OT - Major league cool utiltiy for Mac OSX!
In-Reply-To: <34197856-E7CF-11D8-B470-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <411316DE.5080408@chipp.com>
	<34197856-E7CF-11D8-B470-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <41146554.2040705@chipp.com>

It's really easy to get all the windows on a single window.

First, navigate to any window where RR is 'frontmost' then 
command-option click the desktop. This effectively minimizes all the 
windows for RR. Next navigate to the desktop you want all the windows 
on, then cmd-tab to bring up the task switcher and select RR from the 
icons. All the RR windows will appear together on whichever desktop is 
'active.'

Troy Rollins wrote:


> This switcher is really nice, however it discriminates by the window 
> rather than the owner application. This means that parts of Revolution 
> can be strewn across multiple desktops, and if you should accidentally 
> use the doc to summon Revolution back to the screen, it doesn't bring 
> all of it, only parts.


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 01:27:30 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 01:27:30 -0400
Subject: OT - Major league cool utiltiy for Mac OSX!
In-Reply-To: <41146554.2040705@chipp.com>
References: <411316DE.5080408@chipp.com>
	<34197856-E7CF-11D8-B470-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41146554.2040705@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <7A012E92-E832-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 1:15 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> It's really easy to get all the windows on a single window.
>
> First, navigate to any window where RR is 'frontmost' then 
> command-option click the desktop. This effectively minimizes all the 
> windows for RR. Next navigate to the desktop you want all the windows 
> on, then cmd-tab to bring up the task switcher and select RR from the 
> icons. All the RR windows will appear together on whichever desktop is 
> 'active.'

Hey, not bad.

Yeah, the panel manager thing becomes a "must have" functionality after 
a while... helps keep things better sorted out in your head as well as 
on the screen.

I'm going to work with this one a bit more. I know there are several 
alternatives, but this is the most complete free one I've seen, that's 
for sure.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 01:44:02 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 07:44:02 +0200
Subject: Localizer - Transcriptlator - opinion request
In-Reply-To: <77276AE0-E828-11D8-AA91-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEBFGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

After much scripting on it, I'm puzzled what I should do
and so would like to let you tell me what you think.

I wrote a transcript translator engine for c, pascal, basic
which also handles parts of fortran, php, flash, java and js.

The last piece I added to this stack is a parser that finds
all your local assignments and puts them into the script if
missing. This script also recognizes also the locals assigned 
outside of the script's handlers and puts them on top of the 
script to avoid some conflicts when locals are used before
before the local assignment.

So the question is whether this last script should be made 
available separately in a stack from the other translators?

If there is interest or need for them, I will put this or both 
stacks in my priority list.

For your info, the translators take care of translating the 
basics of any language into Transcript. It's not 100 perfect 
naturally but it saves you about 80% of the time in translating
from one language to transcript.

Thanks in advance for your comments
Xavier

From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Aug  7 01:32:28 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 00:32:28 -0500
Subject: OT - Major league cool utiltiy for Mac OSX!
In-Reply-To: <41146554.2040705@chipp.com>
References: <411316DE.5080408@chipp.com>
	<34197856-E7CF-11D8-B470-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41146554.2040705@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <4114696C.3020201@chipp.com>



Chipp Walters wrote:

> It's really easy to get all the windows on a single window.
> 
> First, navigate to any window where RR is 'frontmost' then 
> command-option click the desktop. This effectively minimizes all the 
> windows for RR. 

Or another way: Navigate to the desktop you want RR on and just click on 
the RR icon in the doc to pull up all RR windows in the 'current' desktop

Next navigate to the desktop you want all the windows
> on, then cmd-tab to bring up the task switcher and select RR from the 
> icons. All the RR windows will appear together on whichever desktop is 
> 'active.'
> 
> Troy Rollins wrote:
> 
> 
>> This switcher is really nice, however it discriminates by the window 
>> rather than the owner application. This means that parts of Revolution 
>> can be strewn across multiple desktops, and if you should accidentally 
>> use the doc to summon Revolution back to the screen, it doesn't bring 
>> all of it, only parts.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Aug  7 01:34:33 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 00:34:33 -0500
Subject: vis of menuBar?
Message-ID: <411469E9.8040404@chipp.com>

Does anyone know how to check whether the menuBar is hidden or not? I 
can't seem to find it in the docs.

I've tried:

the vis of menubar

and it won't work. TIA,

Chipp

From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 01:38:36 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 01:38:36 -0400
Subject: OT - Major league cool utiltiy for Mac OSX!
In-Reply-To: <4114696C.3020201@chipp.com>
References: <411316DE.5080408@chipp.com>
	<34197856-E7CF-11D8-B470-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41146554.2040705@chipp.com> <4114696C.3020201@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <077BC414-E834-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 1:32 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Or another way: Navigate to the desktop you want RR on and just click 
> on the RR icon in the doc to pull up all RR windows in the 'current' 
> desktop

Yes! I just did that one "accidentally." That of course, works just 
fine.  ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 01:39:27 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 01:39:27 -0400
Subject: Localizer - Transcriptlator - opinion request
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEBFGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEBFGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <25A65DFE-E834-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 1:44 AM, MisterX wrote:

> So the question is whether this last script should be made
> available separately in a stack from the other translators?

Obviously, you are considering a possible good reason for these to be 
separate, but since I don't have a full understanding, perhaps you 
could humor me and tell me what it is? Why would the parts of the 
script which identify and include the locals be put into a separate 
stack? Would it have some application outside of the rest of the 
scripts?

Maybe if I understood better, I could offer some kind of opinion.

Either way, the stacks sound interesting, Xavier.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sat Aug  7 01:46:39 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 07:46:39 +0200
Subject: image size and depth
Message-ID: <2762C4B0-E835-11D8-8247-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>

Hi list,

I have a file which is a jpg file
This img is taken with a digital camera

I'd like a script which would change the size and the dpi of this img. 
The idea is to dim the size and set the dpi to "100" or "72"

For now I use graphicConverter but I'm asking if it would be possible 
to make it from within Revolution ?

My script begins with

answer file "Where is the image ?"
if it is empty then exit to top
put it into filepathToImg
...
...

Thank you very much.

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Aug  7 02:04:23 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 01:04:23 -0500
Subject: image size and depth
In-Reply-To: <2762C4B0-E835-11D8-8247-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
References: <2762C4B0-E835-11D8-8247-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <411470E7.1040500@chipp.com>

Yves,
You might want to check out

altResizeImgLib
at
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/runrev/Downloads.htm

The library doesn't explicitly reset the dpi, but it will resize it, and 
you can check the dpi after exporting...

-Chipp

Yves COPPE wrote:

> Hi list,
> 
> I have a file which is a jpg file
> This img is taken with a digital camera
> 
> I'd like a script which would change the size and the dpi of this img. 
> The idea is to dim the size and set the dpi to "100" or "72"


From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Aug  7 02:15:45 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 01:15:45 -0500
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <41147391.9050506@chipp.com>

Troy,

Good points, all. But I also believe there is too much 'Mac' centric 
focus in RR. The GUI is completely Mac based, and so is much of the 
marketing focus. Though, this does represent the 'low-hanging fruit', RR 
won't ever truly make inroads onto other platforms w/out a concerted 
marketing effort by the company.

Also, we can easily see where HyperCard, SuperCard and other 
'Mac-centric' authoring environments have ended up. I think it's 
eventually in RR's best interest to focus on other platforms, else the 
find themselves in the same situation as the other lanquished Mac Xtalk 
authoring environments. And remember, both Flash and Director found some 
success on PC's, and originally shipped with an Xtalk language.

Your point below is quite cogent.

-Chipp

Troy Rollins wrote:


> Marketing Revolution to Mac developers is easy. Marketing it to Windows 
> developers (other than a certain segment) is swimming against the tide. 
> It can be done, but it is certainly a harder road to travel. There is a 
> lot more "education" to do, in order to get Windows developers to 
> recognize the value... if in fact, it does have value to them over their 
> current tools.


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 02:39:51 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 08:39:51 +0200
Subject: Localizer - Transcriptlator - opinion request
In-Reply-To: <25A65DFE-E834-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEBHGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Troy,

> > So the question is whether this last script should be made
> > available separately in a stack from the other translators?
> 
> Obviously, you are considering a possible good reason for these to be 
> separate, but since I don't have a full understanding, perhaps you 
> could humor me and tell me what it is? Why would the parts of the 
> script which identify and include the locals be put into a separate 
> stack? Would it have some application outside of the rest of the 
> scripts?

Well, for different reasons.
- the translator and the localizer do different things. One does the
obvious job of translating other languages. The other declares
your locals to make the explicit variables feature happy. It also
helps make your scripts less buggy as it allows you to see right
away when you have misspelled variables.

The reason both are integrated into the Trancriptolator is that
the Localizer was another parser I made using the T.ptolators' 
functions. In addition the Localizer can be used after any 
translation! 

But Im thinking that the localizer may be needed for some while
the T'ptolator may not. Im thinking of a 5 EU/$ shareware for 
the localizer (as a script editor plug-in) while the T'ptolator 
will be priced higher.

Here's a few screenshots...
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=2

> Maybe if I understood better, I could offer some kind of opinion.

Clearer?

> Either way, the stacks sound interesting, Xavier.

Thanks! 

From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  7 02:25:54 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 23:25:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: First update for vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040806214235.B777593013A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040807062554.562.qmail@web40513.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Developers,

Here is a quick fix for the problem mentioned
by Jim Hurley.

Replace the whole section of code for
the case of Polygon with this code:
Tested and works with the 3d vector graphic
of the Rotater stack.
Beware of linewraps introduced by this yahoo mail.

case "polygon"

/*
To handle the special case where a polygon graphic
could have
segments separated by spaces, i have put in their own
variable
details like linesize, linecolor and fillcolor with
the
only purpose to reuse this data when appear a new
segment
in the graphic. To represent this new segment, it'll
be necessary to create a new polygon graphic with the
same attributes of the original vector graphic.
*/

-- Begin of code changed --

if the linesize of control i <> 0 then put the
linesize of control i & " w" & return after zxs1
if the linesize of control i <> 0 then
put the effective firstcolor of control i into wse
if the number of items of wse = 1 then put
ColorName2RGB(wse) into wse
put colortodecimalrgb(wse) & "RG" & return after zxs1
-- the outline
end if
if the filled of control i is true then
put the effective secondcolor of control i into wse
if the number of items of wse = 1 then put
ColorName2RGB(wse) into wse
put colortodecimalrgb(wse) & "rg" & return after zxs1
-- the fill
end if
        
put the points of control i into mnbq
        
replace comma with space in mnbq
        
put zxs1 & word 1 of line 1 of mnbq && abs(the height
of this stack - word 2 of line 1 of mnbq) & " m" &
return after zxs
delete line 1 of mnbq
        
repeat until mnbq is empty
          
if line 1 of mnbq is empty then -- create new graphic
put zxs1 & word 1 of line 2 of mnbq && abs(the height
of this stack - word 2 of line 2 of mnbq) & " m" &
return after zxs
delete line 2 of mnbq
delete line 1 of mnbq
else -- not an empty line
put word 1 of line 1 of mnbq && abs(the height of this
stack - (word 2 of line 1 of mnbq)) & " l" & return
after zxs
delete line 1 of mnbq
end if
          
end repeat
        
put empty into zxs1

-- End of code changed --
 
put the points of control i into mnfd
        
if the filled of control i is false and the linesize
of control i = 0 and the last line of mnfd = the first
line of mnfd then put "n" & return after zxs

if the filled of control i is false and the linesize
of control i = 0 and the last line of mnfd <> the
first line of mnfd then put "N" & return after zxs
        
if the filled of control i is true and the linesize of
control i = 0 and the last line of mnfd = the first
line of mnfd then put "f" & return after zxs

if the filled of control i is true and the linesize of
control i = 0 and the last line of mnfd <> the first
line of mnfd then put "F" & return after zxs
        
if the filled of control i is false and the linesize
of control i <> 0 and the last line of mnfd = the
first line of mnfd then put "s" & return after zxs

if the filled of control i is false and the linesize
of control i <> 0 and the last line of mnfd <> the
first line of mnfd then put "S" & return after zxs
        
if the filled of control i is true and the linesize of
control i >= 1 and the last line of mnfd <> the first
line of mnfd then put "B" & return after zxs

if the filled of control i is true and the linesize of
control i >= 1 and the last line of mnfd = the first
line of mnfd then put "b" & return after zxs

break

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 03:36:55 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 09:36:55 +0200
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEBIGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Chipp,

> Troy,
>
> Good points, all. But I also believe there is too much 'Mac' centric
> focus in RR. The GUI is completely Mac based, and so is much of the
> marketing focus. Though, this does represent the 'low-hanging fruit', RR
> won't ever truly make inroads onto other platforms w/out a concerted
> marketing effort by the company.

Maybe runrev is using the mac community as ginnea pigs ;)

The recent cursor changes (ouch), XP appearance manager support (although
it works nicely, parts of the RR GUI controls loose their features to
support this sub-aqua wannabe), the externals support on PCs, and more
make RR a better multiplatform tool. This is great...

To win over PC users, it would be nice to have the features of flash and
java... RunRev definitely has the quality look required. But performance
and little things keep RR a step behind. Even compared to RealBasic, RR
still has one feature above all the forementioned: the easiest and fastest
way to make an application - Flash is not that easy to script!

With 3D and bezier scripteable controls, RR may
eat Flash for breakfast. With threading, it would have java and php for
lunch!
With a web player, web developpers would have no more reasons to avoid RR...

And for dessert the polyphonic midi sampler/synth support ;)

Anyway, if more of us make Mac AND PC (and linux of course) freewares or
shareware executables, drop them into sites like gnome, downloads.com,
tucows then we might get more referals or attention.

We could, for example, put these tools as downloable in 2MB exe size or
"RR player required" 50KB downloads. This might induce the advantages of
using the player to offset app sizes made with RR. If the IDE could double
as the player, we sure would not have as many stack distribution problems.

Im not saying making exes is obsolete. However I'd like to point out
that RR's limiting platform distributions per license types is not
encouraging the crowds to deliver apps for all platforms - since most of
us have a studio license, we are restricted - and the RR player would be a
great solution here. But it's not in RR's licensing advantage to do so. I
ask myself if RR could be painting themselves in a corner here? How much
is Flash or Java which deliver on all platforms? What can RR not do that
they do? Other than threading...

There's always a sales volume/market's attention/profit trade-off in
pricing.
Just like there is a trade-off in performance/features/quality/delivery
time.

hope this helps our sales ;)
X

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Chipp
> Walters
> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 08:16
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
>
>


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 05:44:21 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 11:44:21 +0200
Subject: GradientsN2O for Mac
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEBIGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEBJGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

After the disastrous backpattern issue, I managed to find an
alternative. 

Alas not as nice since there is no hilite to the menus yet for macs.

I have updated the download. Let me know if there are further anomalies.
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=161

From heather at runrev.com  Sat Aug  7 06:38:57 2004
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 11:38:57 +0100
Subject: User Contributions on our website
Message-ID: <BD3A6FD1.2BFB0%heather@runrev.com>

Dear listees,

We have just completed a weeding out of the user contributions page on our
website. I have removed stacks known to error or that we feel are no longer
relevant. Thank you all for your valued contributions!

We would like to encourage the authors of the remaining contributions and
new contributions to upload them to Revonline. Ultimately we intend
Revonline to replace the user contributions section entirely, (and of course
vastly expand and improve on it.) Revonline will be a dynamic community,
which you as authors will be able to keep up to date much more easily.

I will no longer be adding new contributions to this website section. As the
old ones become available on Revonline they will be removed from user
contributions. I'd appreciate if authors could drop me a line when they
achieve upload of an existing contribution.

Once again, thank you for your contributions in the past, and we look
forward to seeing your new creations thriving and flourishing on Revonline!

Regards,

Heather
-- 

** For a faster response to all licensing, support, and technical issues,
please now send mail to support at runrev.com **

Heather Nagey ~ heather at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
Tel +44 (0) 870 747 1165 Fax +44 (0) 845 4588487
~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~


From heather at runrev.com  Sat Aug  7 06:47:32 2004
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 11:47:32 +0100
Subject: Change of Address
Message-ID: <BD3A71D4.2BFB9%heather@runrev.com>

Dear list member,

Runtime Revolution have moved!

Due to a lack of space we have moved to bigger and better offices. Our new
address is: 

15-19 York Place, Edinburgh, EH1 3EB, Scotland, UK

Fax and phone number remain as

Tel +44 (0) 870 747 1165 Fax +44 (0) 845 4588487

All future correspondence should be sent to the new address.

Warm Regards

Heather
-- 

** For a faster response to all licensing, support, and technical issues,
please now send mail to support at runrev.com **

Heather Nagey ~ heather at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
Tel +44 (0) 870 747 1165 Fax +44 (0) 845 4588487
~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~


From Meitnik at aol.com  Sat Aug  7 08:22:13 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 08:22:13 EDT
Subject: translater tool, whoa
Message-ID: <1a9.271900f2.2e462375@aol.com>


> I wrote a transcript translator engine for c, pascal, basic
> which also handles parts of fortran, php, flash, java and js.
> 
> -- Please send me more info on it. Btw, how did you handle the pointer stuff 
in those languages???

Andrew


From Meitnik at aol.com  Sat Aug  7 08:35:40 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 08:35:40 EDT
Subject: MDI challege
Message-ID: <1de.26c4524f.2e46269c@aol.com>


> There is an argument to be had that Rev is somewhat limited in advanced 
> Windows
> features because of its well-balanced multi-platform feature set.
> 
-- Limiting, you bet. I consider a tool cross platform when a tool handles 
the core features of each platform. RR simply does't, look at lack of MDI 
support. Ken Ray wrote a great spec whose features could have been slowly fullfilled 
over the 2yrs since its introduction. The code to do fake MDI in RR IDE is a 
hack, a working one yes, but a hack. And its not even explained to others who 
could even use that hack if one wanted "revMDI". 
I challege rr team to post a free tutorial on Menbars and MDI on revonline in 
the next 60days ;-)
This posting would help newbies and those working strictly on Windows to make 
best use of RR.

Andrew

From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Aug  7 09:23:56 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 14:23:56 +0100
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
 <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040807140406.00abbc40@mail.tweedly.net>

At 23:47 06/08/2004 -0400, Troy Rollins wrote:


>On Aug 6, 2004, at 5:54 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>>I did find the Mac-orientation of Revolution a bit off-putting at first. 
>>Hypercard (and Applescript, and QT and ...) are mentioned so often, and 
>>so much discussion includes Mac mentions, that I did wonder initially 
>>just how "cross-platform" Rev would be - or whether it was really 80% a 
>>Mac application, with a token ability to run on other platforms. The 
>>apparent focus on Mac/Apple (conferences, Macworld announcements, etc.) 
>>could easily "scare" Windows (or Unix/Linux) users. I think it would be a 
>>good idea for some "balancing" if possible.

>
>I think that this isn't an issue of Windows versus Mac, but one of Windows 
>developers versus Mac developers. One of Rev's greatest strengths and 
>marketable features is its inherently multi-platform nature. A feature 
>that Windows developers generally don't give a whit about. Windows 
>developers (typically) are not Mac savvy, and don't even consider 
>developing anything for Mac. In fact, your initial reaction would be 
>typical, I think. Why mess up an IDE and scripting language with all that 
>Mac oriented rubbish? What's with this plain English programming?

Troy - you present a very persuasive argument for why Mac developers are a 
better (or easier) target for Rev. than Windows developers. I'm worried 
that  the Mac universe isn't big enough for a small portion of it to 
sustain Revolution - whereas a (much smaller) portion of the Windows users 
/ developers would be.

And to be honest I'm not so much worried about what a Windows developer / 
user thinks of the details (such as "plain English") as that they don't get 
that far. Look at the main page on www.runrev.com - Windows is mentioned 
once - a single word (admittedly in a prominent place).
About a fifth of the screen is taken up by a row of  icons of Mac awards, 
and another fifth of the screen is a Max OSX screenshot.
Simply changing the screenshot to W-XP would help.
Adding a quote (or logo/award) from a PC or Linux mag or site would help 
even more.

>Mac developers, on the other hand, know well that they generally *must* 
>develop for Windows in order for their products to be seriously marketable 
>to the general public. Virtually all Mac developers that I know 
>(Hypercarders excepted) develop multi-platform, and look for 
>multi-platform tools to develop with. Windows users are not specifically 
>looking for multi-platform tools, they are looking for the tools with the 
>most advanced Windows features they can find.

True - though there may be an opening with the extra press given to 
Unix/Linux to convince more Windows developers to consider other platforms.

>  There is an argument to be had that Rev is somewhat limited in advanced 
> Windows features because of its well-balanced multi-platform feature set.

Presumably, the same argument applies:
"There is an argument to be had that Rev is somewhat limited in advanced 
Macintosh features because of its well-balanced multi-platform feature set."

Would you agree with that ? Which Mac features are missing ? Are they 
missing because of the multi-platform nature ?

>Marketing Revolution to Mac developers is easy. Marketing it to Windows 
>developers (other than a certain segment) is swimming against the tide. It 
>can be done, but it is certainly a harder road to travel. There is a lot 
>more "education" to do, in order to get Windows developers to recognize 
>the value... if in fact, it does have value to them over their current tools.
>
>>
>>[ Occasionally, I still think there's too much Mac focus - but I'll keep 
>>that argument for another day when my skin is feeling thicker :- ]
>
>Ah, OK. Standing-by.  ;-)

No, I'm not going to be tempted into that topic until I'm ready for it....

-- Alex.

From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Sat Aug  7 09:27:03 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:27:03 +0100
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
References: <20040807103648.58E2A930151@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c47c82$3a79a5a0$5602a8c0@athalon>

View from a 'non-professional' Windows user-

I agree wholeheartedly with Chipp and Troy. It would be interesting to
understand the balance between Mac and PC (and others) on the list. As
mentioned by others, I also find Mac bias a bit off putting. List answers
like "get a Mac" (admittedly tongue in cheek) and that we don't need any
media support as there's always QuickTime don't help the PC community.

I started with Rev about 18 months ago after finding a free 1.1 disc on a PC
mag. I was so impressed with it that even though it was a fully licensed
product I bought another license for 2.xx, particularly as 2.xx offered more
in media and speech, tables.
I work with around 200 other engineers all using PCs and have spent a long
time trying to 'sell' the idea of Rev to them. Unfortunately, here in the
UK, the market is around 90% PC and we seem to continually find things Rev
doesn't really do well on PC, media, graphs, real tables etc (and many list
respondents unfortunately don't have much experience with PCs).

Speech capability seems to have vanished from the PC as far as I can see and
media playing is still restricted if QT is not installed. It has been
mentioned many times on the list that typical users of Rev products would be
teachers/schools and that these sort of people cannot install QT as they
have no admin rights, but this argument seems to hit stoney ground. Maybe a
solution to this would be to embed QT into the Dreamcard player, so that all
users have the full range of media facilities. Is this a possibility?

Anyway, I have had no luck with selling the idea of Rev to my PC colleagues
who see it as too Mac driven (review citations don't help unfortunately).
After a very brief flourish Rev seems to have vanished off the PC magazines
and no longer appears in the programming sections (where Vb, C++, Java etc
reside), the UK Mac market is very small and specialist as is Mac software
so I really see no market penetration likely in the UK. And, as has been
mentioned, constant references to 'mac' shows and awards just give the idea
that the product is not beeing promoted in PC shows/mags (here I group Linux
as well).

To me it seems a missed opportunity - the UK small user market is huge - I'm
not a professional, but I have sucessfully produced 3 special apps for
clubs, all being used actively and appreciated, but it never seems to
deliver what I need to use it for work apps or for my wifes 'teacher' needs.
In many ways I love the program, but in others I feel I am missing what the
Mac community can do with it.

I believe Rev is a great product and from what has been written, Dreamcard
may offer increased opportunities but I fear it will only really be
successul if the PC market is actively developed.

Steve

Chipp wrote..
> Troy,
>
> Good points, all. But I also believe there is too much 'Mac' centric
> focus in RR. The GUI is completely Mac based, and so is much of the
> marketing focus. Though, this does represent the 'low-hanging fruit', RR
> won't ever truly make inroads onto other platforms w/out a concerted
> marketing effort by the company.
>
> Also, we can easily see where HyperCard, SuperCard and other
> 'Mac-centric' authoring environments have ended up. I think it's
> eventually in RR's best interest to focus on other platforms, else the
> find themselves in the same situation as the other lanquished Mac Xtalk
> authoring environments. And remember, both Flash and Director found some
> success on PC's, and originally shipped with an Xtalk language.
>
> Your point below is quite cogent.
>
> -Chipp
>
> Troy Rollins wrote:
>
>
> > Marketing Revolution to Mac developers is easy. Marketing it to Windows
> > developers (other than a certain segment) is swimming against the tide.
> > It can be done, but it is certainly a harder road to travel. There is a
> > lot more "education" to do, in order to get Windows developers to
> > recognize the value... if in fact, it does have value to them over their
> > current tools.


From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Aug  7 09:35:34 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 06:35:34 -0700
Subject: First update for vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040807103648.58E2A930151@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040807103648.58E2A930151@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110401bd3a8519e4a4@[66.81.130.36]>

>
>Message: 18
>Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 23:25:54 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Alejandro Tejada <capellan2000 at yahoo.com>
>Subject: First update for vector to pdf
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Message-ID: <20040807062554.562.qmail at web40513.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Hi Developers,
>
>Here is a quick fix for the problem mentioned
>by Jim Hurley.
>
>Replace the whole section of code for
>the case of Polygon with this code:
>Tested and works with the 3d vector graphic
>of the Rotater stack.
>Beware of linewraps introduced by this yahoo mail.


Al,

Worked like a charm! Thanks you so much. I had considered a solution 
which did in RR what you did in the text file. Mine was much more 
intrusive.

I tried your revised script out on a graphic which illustrates the 
physics of the rainbow. It consists of a single line graphic broken 
in over 30 places--each broken segment represents a single light ray. 
It translated perfectly into FreeHand.

Another small point I noticed.

My graphic was named "rainbow" and so the *short* name did not 
contain the word "graphic." So I just changed the code line:

	if the short name of control i contains "graphic"

to

	if the name of control i contains "graphic"

>Probably you are working on the graphics for your
>book and need this now or as soon as possible.


Actually the book is finished. I put up a web site for it at:

http://www.jamesphurley.com/

There are a number of Run Rev graphic applications there which 
illustrate a few of the topics treated in the book. (These are 
stand-alones, but I can furnish the RR code.)


Jim

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Aug  7 09:37:18 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:37:18 -0400
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEBIGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEBIGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <4114DB0E.2050004@fourthworld.com>

MisterX wrote:

> To win over PC users, it would be nice to have the features of flash and
> java... RunRev definitely has the quality look required. But performance
> and little things keep RR a step behind. Even compared to RealBasic, RR
> still has one feature above all the forementioned: the easiest and fastest
> way to make an application - Flash is not that easy to script!

Indeed the productivity benefits are hard to match, and I've seen no
reasoned argument describing something more productive.

But on performance, I think you must have missed a few posts here
over the last year:

Everytime someone who who doesn't use Rev comes trolling in here looking
to pick a fight on performance, ultimately it is the troll who goes away
embarassed when Rev is demonstrated to outperform their fave, and often
in fewer lines.

I'm sure a more clever troll could work hard enough to identify the
subset of cases where that's not true, but do date the discussions have
been ostensibly about real-world needs, and the argument wasn't worth
pursuing further to them at all once total development productivity is
reintroduced into the discussion.

This is not to suggest that Rev will beat everything all the way down to
Assembler, but it's much faster than most 4GLs and some 3GLs and I don't
think anyone who actually measures it considers performance to be a
critical issue.

In the relatively narrow subset of cases where performance of
computationally-intensive routines is beyond what Rev does gracefully,
as with the many-times-more-expensive Director or Toolbook products you
can always just drop in an external for such specialized needs.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sat Aug  7 10:03:36 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 10:03:36 -0400
Subject: Change of Address
Message-ID: <OF2B225AE0.61E755FE-ON85256EE9.004C613E@sealedair.com>

Heather wrote:

> Dear list member,
> 
> Runtime Revolution have moved!

Oh my!!!!!!  I hope they didn't lose the IRIX machine again during this 
move!   8^D

Moving to a bigger building is a sign of progress and growth. GO 
RUNTIME!!!!!

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Sat Aug  7 10:11:10 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 11:11:10 -0300
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BD3A694E.9462%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Ahhh... The 2 dimensional world looking for the first time at the 3
dimensional world that has existed for 20 years... Welcome.

on 8/7/04 3:15 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Troy,
> 
> Good points, all. But I also believe there is too much 'Mac' centric
> focus in RR. The GUI is completely Mac based, and so is much of the
> marketing focus. Though, this does represent the 'low-hanging fruit', RR
> won't ever truly make inroads onto other platforms w/out a concerted
> marketing effort by the company.
> 
> Also, we can easily see where HyperCard, SuperCard and other
> 'Mac-centric' authoring environments have ended up. I think it's
> eventually in RR's best interest to focus on other platforms, else the
> find themselves in the same situation as the other lanquished Mac Xtalk
> authoring environments. And remember, both Flash and Director found some
> success on PC's, and originally shipped with an Xtalk language.
> 
> Your point below is quite cogent.
> 
> -Chipp
> 
> Troy Rollins wrote:
> 
> 
>> Marketing Revolution to Mac developers is easy. Marketing it to Windows
>> developers (other than a certain segment) is swimming against the tide.
>> It can be done, but it is certainly a harder road to travel. There is a
>> lot more "education" to do, in order to get Windows developers to
>> recognize the value... if in fact, it does have value to them over their
>> current tools.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Sat Aug  7 10:28:55 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:28:55 +0100
Subject: sound in revolution
References: <20040806031800.ADE819300FF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <001401c47c8a$deb60b60$5602a8c0@athalon>

Klaus wrote..
> But i hade big success playing WAV (which is noit necessarily = WAV
> ;-), AIF, AU
> and MP3 as sounds and "AVI (even DivX) and MPG as video files on Windoze
> without QT being installed (= NO QT ;-)


Klaus, How did you manage WAVs? I am sure I have not managed to play a
windows WAV file in Rev without QT being installed? To me it was a big
problem as WAV is still the 'native' recording type for windows for many
apps and earlier Win versions.

Dar Wrote
> But i also cannot understand why some pcs do not install QT, but wanna
> have FULL
> "multimedia" experience... OK, it is not MS...

I don't think it's some, I don't think any distributors in teh Uk ship with
QT installed.
The main problem as I see it is:
- Many users do not have the rights to install these things. I am an
engineer of 25 years working with many other engineers. We all have home PCs
and know how to use them but none of us can install anything at work. It has
to be done through an IT team. This is the same for most organisations I
believe. I think its pretty unusual now for businesses to give their workers
admin rights - the risk of loading unlicensed software and penalties is just
too high. I would think that assuming all users can download QT and install
is no longer true.
- Windows is shipped with media player, just like Mac OS is shipped with QT.
So most users don't need it.

So as Rev needs it for full potential- why can't Rev bundle QT with the
player at source (or have as an associated install)? I've seen many other
programs that ask me if I want to install QT as well (the QT licensing for
individuals is really a bit cumbersome for the stack producer).

Cheers
Steve


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sat Aug  7 10:31:35 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:31:35 +0200
Subject: image size and depth
In-Reply-To: <411470E7.1040500@chipp.com>
References: <2762C4B0-E835-11D8-8247-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<411470E7.1040500@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <7C555E6C-E87E-11D8-817D-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>


Le 07-ao?t-04, ? 08:04, Chipp Walters a ?crit :

> Yves,
> You might want to check out
>
> altResizeImgLib
> at
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/runrev/Downloads.htm
>
> The library doesn't explicitly reset the dpi, but it will resize it, 
> and you can check the dpi after exporting...
>
> -Chipp
>
>


Hi Chipp,

thank for the stack for resizing

but, how can I change de dpi, I don't understand your tip : "and you 
can check the dpi after exporting..."

thank you.
Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 10:49:38 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:49:38 +0200
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <4114DB0E.2050004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEBMGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Richard,

As you point out, performance is not a problem in most
"practical" cases.

In terms of graphics, Im even quite surprised at the throughput
of MoireX but given its simplicity, well, i dont think bezier
moires are coming soon at least on my little portable ;)

But what about the 100% cpu hogging so characteristic of Windowns
seen when running a loop? This is not so savvy Im afraid to report
even though it doesn't seem like RR hogs the computer - only the
...

But for the most part, you're absolutely right to say that RR is
a performer. I know nothing faster to develop with this level
of complexity and expected output... But graphicsand hogging are
the smoothest. But I'll add an FPSmeter to my next moire version ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Richard
> Gaskin
> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 15:37
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
>
>
> MisterX wrote:
>
> > To win over PC users, it would be nice to have the features of flash and
> > java... RunRev definitely has the quality look required. But performance
> > and little things keep RR a step behind. Even compared to RealBasic, RR
> > still has one feature above all the forementioned: the easiest
> and fastest
> > way to make an application - Flash is not that easy to script!
>
> Indeed the productivity benefits are hard to match, and I've seen no
> reasoned argument describing something more productive.
>
> But on performance, I think you must have missed a few posts here
> over the last year:
>
> Everytime someone who who doesn't use Rev comes trolling in here looking
> to pick a fight on performance, ultimately it is the troll who goes away
> embarassed when Rev is demonstrated to outperform their fave, and often
> in fewer lines.
>
> I'm sure a more clever troll could work hard enough to identify the
> subset of cases where that's not true, but do date the discussions have
> been ostensibly about real-world needs, and the argument wasn't worth
> pursuing further to them at all once total development productivity is
> reintroduced into the discussion.
>
> This is not to suggest that Rev will beat everything all the way down to
> Assembler, but it's much faster than most 4GLs and some 3GLs and I don't
> think anyone who actually measures it considers performance to be a
> critical issue.
>
> In the relatively narrow subset of cases where performance of
> computationally-intensive routines is beyond what Rev does gracefully,
> as with the many-times-more-expensive Director or Toolbook products you
> can always just drop in an external for such specialized needs.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   ___________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 10:49:38 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:49:38 +0200
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <BD3A694E.9462%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEBNGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Maybe we've written a new chapter for Dan's book here
regarding marketing your RunRev apps ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Jim
> Carwardine
> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 16:11
> To: Revolution Listserve
> Subject: Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
>
>
> Ahhh... The 2 dimensional world looking for the first time at the 3
> dimensional world that has existed for 20 years... Welcome.
>
> on 8/7/04 3:15 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
> > Troy,
> >
> > Good points, all. But I also believe there is too much 'Mac' centric
> > focus in RR. The GUI is completely Mac based, and so is much of the
> > marketing focus. Though, this does represent the 'low-hanging fruit', RR
> > won't ever truly make inroads onto other platforms w/out a concerted
> > marketing effort by the company.
> >
> > Also, we can easily see where HyperCard, SuperCard and other
> > 'Mac-centric' authoring environments have ended up. I think it's
> > eventually in RR's best interest to focus on other platforms, else the
> > find themselves in the same situation as the other lanquished Mac Xtalk
> > authoring environments. And remember, both Flash and Director found some
> > success on PC's, and originally shipped with an Xtalk language.
> >
> > Your point below is quite cogent.
> >
> > -Chipp
> >
> > Troy Rollins wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Marketing Revolution to Mac developers is easy. Marketing it to Windows
> >> developers (other than a certain segment) is swimming against the tide.
> >> It can be done, but it is certainly a harder road to travel. There is a
> >> lot more "education" to do, in order to get Windows developers to
> >> recognize the value... if in fact, it does have value to them
> over their
> >> current tools.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> --
>
> OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
> <http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>
>
> Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
> 1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
> Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 10:59:45 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:59:45 +0200
Subject: MDI challege
In-Reply-To: <1de.26c4524f.2e46269c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEBNGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

uh, scuze me, I just regained consciousness...

what is Dreamcard and what is MDI good for?

Other than DirectX or writting a DLL , I haven't
found a thing done on PCs that I couldn't do with
MetaCard...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of
> Meitnik at aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 14:36
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: MDI challege
>
>
>
> > There is an argument to be had that Rev is somewhat limited in advanced
> > Windows
> > features because of its well-balanced multi-platform feature set.
> >
> -- Limiting, you bet. I consider a tool cross platform when a
> tool handles
> the core features of each platform. RR simply does't, look at lack of MDI
> support. Ken Ray wrote a great spec whose features could have
> been slowly fullfilled
> over the 2yrs since its introduction. The code to do fake MDI in
> RR IDE is a
> hack, a working one yes, but a hack. And its not even explained
> to others who
> could even use that hack if one wanted "revMDI".
> I challege rr team to post a free tutorial on Menbars and MDI on
> revonline in
> the next 60days ;-)
> This posting would help newbies and those working strictly on
> Windows to make
> best use of RR.
>
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  7 10:56:33 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 07:56:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Localizer - Transcriptlator - opinion request
In-Reply-To: <20040807103648.58E2A930151@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040807145633.54974.qmail@web40513.mail.yahoo.com>

on Sat, 7 Aug 2004 
xavier bury wrote:

> I wrote a transcript translator engine for c,
> pascal, basic
> which also handles parts of fortran, php, flash,
> java and js.

This is extraordinary!

If you have a website, you could
provide this service via a Rev CGI.

The user enters your webpage, paste their
code in a field and click on buttons to
set options and send the data to your
stack running in RevCGI.

I have cgi running in my site, if you are
interested to make this available this way.

> If there is interest or need for them, I will put
> this or both 
> stacks in my priority list.

Are you going to comment on every translation?

This will become like a Rosetta stone for
developers. It's an exciting development tool.

> For your info, the translators take care of
> translating the 
> basics of any language into Transcript. It's not 100
> perfect 
> naturally but it saves you about 80% of the time in
> translating
> from one language to transcript.

It'll be highly useful if you provide
comments on the translation choices
along with the translation.

I'm sure that some expressions could be
handled in different ways. An explanation
is always welcome.

So, When do we see this tool? :-))

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Aug  7 11:05:44 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:05:44 +0100
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <4114DB0E.2050004@fourthworld.com>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEBIGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
 <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEBIGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040807153212.00ad6ad0@mail.tweedly.net>

At 09:37 07/08/2004 -0400, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>Indeed the productivity benefits are hard to match, and I've seen no
>reasoned argument describing something more productive.

Agreed - though I would guess that, for me, Revolution is less than half as 
productive than it *should* be. It's held back by
   - documentation (somewhat improved in 2.5B)
   - flaky behaviour of keyboard shortcuts (improved in 2.5B, but still 
quirky compared to the platform standards)
   - poor error reporting (getting to be less of an issue as I get used to 
ignoring the message itself and just inspect the code in the area)
   - poor script colorizer (improved but still disappointing in 2.5B)
   - lack of navigation features (raise/focus next window, edit indicated 
handler, etc.)
   - non-intuitive (and poorly documented) distinctions between keywords, 
arguments, evaluated strings, variable names, etc. - and lack of diagnostic 
when you get it wrong

This is aggravated by lack of a good, well-organized collection of 
user-contributed scripts and libraries. (I can't decide whether RevOnline 
is going to be a step forward or a step backward here - won't be able to 
tell until we see it in operation).


>But on performance, I think you must have missed a few posts here
>over the last year:
>
>Everytime someone who who doesn't use Rev comes trolling in here looking
>to pick a fight on performance, ultimately it is the troll who goes away
>embarassed when Rev is demonstrated to outperform their fave, and often
>in fewer lines.

I've raised a number of performance related issues. I didn't come here 
deliberately trolling to find them :-)

What I've found is that if I do something the *obvious* way in Rev, the 
performance can be appallingly poor.  There is usually (maybe always) a 
different way to do it that is adequately fast (at least within 10 or 20% 
of the performance of other scripting languages), but requires a far less 
natural or convenient way to do it.

examples ?
1. draw moderate number of rectangles:
      Other language - you draw a number of rectangles
      Revolution - you draw a single large polygon with invisible edges and 
rectangular markers at each vertex. (!?)

The Rev way works quite nicely, only 10 or 20% slower than in the other 
language, but I'd never have found it without the help of this group. And I 
didn't find it without wasting hours (days ?) pursuing other more obvious 
ideas which all failed through performance.

2. Modify the size, colour or position of some of those rectangles you just 
drew in example 1.
    Other - you change the colour (shape, position) of the rectangle, and 
re-draw the set
    Revolution - you maintain a number of polygons (as lists of vertices in 
variables, not in the graphics themselves), representing the different 
combinations of colour and size needed,and then remove the required line 
from one polygon and add it to another, then re-draw (i.e. put the variable 
into the graphic) the two polygons. Oh - and if you need to deal with 
layering, then you need mulitple polygons per color/size/layer ...

Again, it works - but it is about as self-documenting as Fortran :-)

3. Read a CSV file
The simple natural way (of course) doesn't work - CSV isn't like that :-)
The proper way works OK in Rev, though performance is an issue.
The quick way (thanks again Richard !) works well, and has pretty decent 
performance; but it is 20-30 lines including a couple of non-obvious 
techniques - which as a beginner in the language I wouldn't have considered.

And to change to a different dialect of CSV (e.g. read csv from Access 
rather than from Excel) would be another 20-30 lines, with a couple of 
subtle differences.

The Python equivalent is to use a standard library - so a couple very 
obvious and well-documented lines instead of those 20-30; to use a 
different dialect is one extra phrase (dialect="Access")

4. Displaying a CSV file (re-formatted into a scrollable set of columns).
I did this using a number of list-fields, and scrolling the group - I might 
have used the altFieldHeader had I known about it at the time).

This worked "kind of OK" - did what I wanted, but was a bit slow.
Didn't take long to think about it, move all the workings into variables, 
and finally write the variables to the fields. |mproved the performance 
from "iffy" up to "just fine".

So again - Rev can do it with adequate performance - but I find myself 
having to consider performance in a way I haven't had to do for years.  And 
there's a trade-off between performance and natural data structuring that I 
haven't had to deal with elsewhere.

-- Alex.

From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Aug  7 11:24:06 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:24:06 +0200
Subject: image size and depth
In-Reply-To: <7C555E6C-E87E-11D8-817D-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
References: <2762C4B0-E835-11D8-8247-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<411470E7.1040500@chipp.com> <7C555E6C-E87E-11D8-817D-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <D236C62E-E885-11D8-A6CC-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bon jour Yves,

> Le 07-ao?t-04, ? 08:04, Chipp Walters a ?crit :
>
>> Yves,
>> You might want to check out
>>
>> altResizeImgLib
>> at
>> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/runrev/Downloads.htm
>> The library doesn't explicitly reset the dpi, but it will resize it, 
>> and you can check the dpi after exporting...
>>
>> -Chipp
>
> Hi Chipp,
>
> thank for the stack for resizing
> but, how can I change de dpi, I don't understand your tip : "and you 
> can check the dpi after exporting..."

i am sorry, but Rev, like many other apps that are NO image-editing 
apps, are not even aware
of something like DPI...

These app, incl. Rev, treat every image "as is", that means x pixels in 
width and y pixels in height
but with screen-resolution = 72 dpi...

You will have to do some calculations and resize your image to that 
amount in pixels that will
fit to a given DPI, but you will have to change the DPI in an image 
editing app like Graphic Converter etc...

Hope that helps...

> thank you.
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be

Au revoir, mon ami...

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From mark at maseurope.net  Sat Aug  7 11:23:55 2004
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:23:55 +0100
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 27
In-Reply-To: <20040807103648.23ECB93014F@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040807103648.23ECB93014F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CB9D08C4-E885-11D8-9A1C-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>

Wasn't MetaCard originally a Unix thing? Either way, MetaCard has ended 
up... well...here...

Cheers,

Mark

On 7 Aug 2004, at 11:36, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Also, we can easily see where HyperCard, SuperCard and other
> 'Mac-centric' authoring environments have ended up.


From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Aug  7 11:33:21 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:33:21 +0200
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <001401c47c8a$deb60b60$5602a8c0@athalon>
References: <20040806031800.ADE819300FF@mail.runrev.com>
	<001401c47c8a$deb60b60$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <1D1E975A-E887-11D8-A6CC-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Stephen,

> Klaus wrote..
>> But i hade big success playing WAV (which is noit necessarily = WAV
>> ;-), AIF, AU
>> and MP3 as sounds and "AVI (even DivX) and MPG as video files on 
>> Windoze
>> without QT being installed (= NO QT ;-)
>
> Klaus, How did you manage WAVs?

I just put them into a player object and that was all :-)

> I am sure I have not managed to play a
> windows WAV file in Rev without QT being installed? To me it was a big
> problem as WAV is still the 'native' recording type for windows for 
> many
> apps and earlier Win versions.

OK, but "WAV" is just a container for different codecs like "AVI"...

Of course, i had some suprises, like a WAV that would play nicely in 
WinMediaPlayer
and in QT-player, but not in REV, with or without QT...

> Dar Wrote
>> But i also cannot understand why some pcs do not install QT, but wanna
>> have FULL "multimedia" experience... OK, it is not MS...
>
> I don't think it's some, I don't think any distributors in teh Uk ship 
> with
> QT installed.
> The main problem as I see it is:
> - Many users do not have the rights to install these things. I am an
> engineer of 25 years working with many other engineers. We all have 
> home PCs
> and know how to use them but none of us can install anything at work. 
> It has
> to be done through an IT team. This is the same for most organisations 
> I
> believe. I think its pretty unusual now for businesses to give their 
> workers
> admin rights - the risk of loading unlicensed software and penalties 
> is just
> too high. I would think that assuming all users can download QT and 
> install
> is no longer true.
> - Windows is shipped with media player, just like Mac OS is shipped 
> with QT.
> So most users don't need it.

True...

> So as Rev needs it for full potential- why can't Rev bundle QT with the
> player at source (or have as an associated install)?

Good question :-)

> I've seen many other
> programs that ask me if I want to install QT as well (the QT licensing 
> for
> individuals is really a bit cumbersome for the stack producer).

You just have to fill out a (two) 15 pages form and send it to Apple 
with 2 CD-ROMs
or whatever medium you use to ship your software...

Yes, it is a bit cumbersome ;-)

> Cheers
> Steve

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Aug  7 11:47:11 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:47:11 +0200
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 27
In-Reply-To: <CB9D08C4-E885-11D8-9A1C-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>
References: <20040807103648.23ECB93014F@mail.runrev.com>
	<CB9D08C4-E885-11D8-9A1C-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <0C2C38D5-E889-11D8-A6CC-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Wasn't MetaCard originally a Unix thing?

That is very true!

After about 7 or 8 years as UNIX-only!!! the first windows!!! version 
came out...
And the MAC version shortly after that...

> Either way, MetaCard has ended up... well...here...

:-)

> Cheers,
>
> Mark

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 12:20:35 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 18:20:35 +0200
Subject: translater tool, whoa
In-Reply-To: <1a9.271900f2.2e462375@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAECBGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Andrew,

Glad you asked. Surely I need a faq to answer those...

Pointers are not handled. Or they will be mishandled.
I may leave a choice to convert the notations

this.that
and 
this->that

 as this[that]

I've seen object.rect->topleft and this gets more confusing...
so object[rect,topleft] is the answer but it's gets weirder
the more code you see ;)

Pointers can be much more complex 
than just simple assignment of variable addresses. 
Even a for loop can hard to parse 
for(mystruct* s->t=0; (x ? i,z)< thisfcuntion();++i) // etc...
is a beast to translate... 

But I got some ways of doing some of these cases. 
Recognizing how a for loop is incremented alone
means different strategies for repeat statements.

Like basic's goto statements what do you do?

Now, pointers...

How could I translate a register barrel shifter for example?
in a code like this
#define SIZEOF(thisstruct)
int *b=thisstruct->nextpointer

where you move from struct element to another using the pointer
is best done with a simple 
thisstruct[b,element]

Some C++ or Java oriented constructs/logic must be done 
by hand. 

As I said it does the tedious translation and parsing the job.

you did see the screen shots right?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of
> Meitnik at aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 14:22
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: translater tool, whoa
> 
> 
> 
> > I wrote a transcript translator engine for c, pascal, basic
> > which also handles parts of fortran, php, flash, java and js.
> > 
> > -- Please send me more info on it. Btw, how did you handle the 
> pointer stuff 
> in those languages???
> 
> Andrew
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 12:20:36 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 18:20:36 +0200
Subject: image size and depth
In-Reply-To: <D236C62E-E885-11D8-A6CC-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCECBGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Actually it's simpler than that...

a screen image is 72 dpi at the pixel level.
Color printing requires 150 dpi
BW printing goes from 150 draft inkjet to 2400 or more in offset printing.

1024 px /72 dpi = x inches

im sure you can do the rest of the math. the higher the res, the smaller
the picture, the more details.

Forget about handling lpis in RR though... That's your printer's job unless
you know your stuff in Photoshop.

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Klaus Major
> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 17:24
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: image size and depth
>
>
> Bon jour Yves,
>
> > Le 07-ao?t-04, ? 08:04, Chipp Walters a ?crit :
> >
> >> Yves,
> >> You might want to check out
> >>
> >> altResizeImgLib
> >> at
> >> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/runrev/Downloads.htm
> >> The library doesn't explicitly reset the dpi, but it will resize it,
> >> and you can check the dpi after exporting...
> >>
> >> -Chipp
> >
> > Hi Chipp,
> >
> > thank for the stack for resizing
> > but, how can I change de dpi, I don't understand your tip : "and you
> > can check the dpi after exporting..."
>
> i am sorry, but Rev, like many other apps that are NO image-editing
> apps, are not even aware
> of something like DPI...
>
> These app, incl. Rev, treat every image "as is", that means x pixels in
> width and y pixels in height
> but with screen-resolution = 72 dpi...
>
> You will have to do some calculations and resize your image to that
> amount in pixels that will
> fit to a given DPI, but you will have to change the DPI in an image
> editing app like Graphic Converter etc...
>
> Hope that helps...
>
> > thank you.
> > Greetings.
> >
> > Yves COPPE
> > yvescoppe at skynet.be
>
> Au revoir, mon ami...
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug  7 13:19:03 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 10:19:03 -0700
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Chipp.........

You knew I'd have to chime in here. :-)

Not simply to be contrarian, but I do not believe RR has any serious 
chance of making real inroads into other platforms. Period. No matter 
what they do. Over the decades -- yes, decades! -- I've been in this 
business, I bet I've seen 100 or more development platforms, languages, 
and tools emerge that would have made Windows programmers more 
productive and efficient. Not one of them thrived. Only a few survived.

Now you could go through the list and find something wrong with every 
one of them, I'm sure. A reason they failed. But I submit that if in 
all that time, no new language or tool that wasn't backed by a huge 
company (Microsoft in particular but also Sun and IBM and, for a while 
at least, Borland) ever made real inroads. My belief -- and I confess 
that it is only a belief, not something I can support with anything 
stronger than my own experiences an insights -- is that Windows 
developers are principally if not exclusively interested in developing 
for the Windows platform and that the Bandwagon Effect results in the 
vast majority of them using mainstream tools. Hell, Java doesn't even 
have significant presence among pure Windows developers; it's been 
shifted to the enterprise/server side of the equation and Microsoft is 
on the verge of dislodging even that penetration.

Oh, sure, there is a minuscule number of programmers who experience a 
Smalltalk or a Revolution or an Objective C and say, "Wow, I can be way 
more productive than my competitors with this. I think I'll use it 
instead of C++ or C#." And some of them stick with their 
out-of-the-mainstream tools. But most don't. Eventually, the fact that 
95% of their colleagues are using other tools with widespread library 
support, fellow programmers to exchange code and ideas with, and all 
the other components of the Bandwagon Effect drag most of them back to 
the mainstream tools.

This is true even on the Mac. Only a minority of desktop app developers 
who develop  for the Mac are ultimately interested in selling Windows 
products. (I'm not saying this *should* be the case, but it's a reality 
nonetheless.) CodeWarrior lets hard-core C types deliver cross-platform 
but they're a bit player on both sides of the fence. Apple's dev tools, 
esp under OS X, are awesome and powerful. Every single Mac programmer I 
know uses them and not Revolution despite the fact that they could use 
Rev and greatly expand their market. In some cases, they are working 
for an all-Mac customer or client base. In  others, they just don't 
care; they'd rather build apps with all of the coolness and nuance of a 
Mac app and forego the Windows marketplace than compromise. In effect, 
this is another face of the same argument you make for why RR needs to 
make the product less Mac-centric: developers on those "other" 
platforms want to see tools that feel like those platforms.

At the end of the day, RR has to find niches where cross-platform 
development is important or even critical. Those niches exist. But they 
are not mainstream programmers on either platform (and certainly not on 
*nix, whose developers seem to prefer Open Source tools). To delude 
itself into thinking it will *ever* make significant inroads into any 
traditional programming market would, I think, be the end of RR. I 
think they should focus exclusively on  the folks I call Inventive 
Users who are not full-time professional coders, who can make a tool 
switch without a huge technical or social cost, and who are at least 
interested in if not motivated by the possibility of cross-platform 
development.

As it happens, I think that audience is at least 10 times as large as 
the professional programming audience and vastly more receptive to new 
development tools and technologies. But reaching that audience is 
tricky.

On Aug 6, 2004, at 11:15 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I also believe there is too much 'Mac' centric focus in RR. The GUI is 
> completely Mac based, and so is much of the marketing focus. Though, 
> this does represent the 'low-hanging fruit', RR won't ever truly make 
> inroads onto other platforms w/out a concerted marketing effort by the 
> company.


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 13:39:23 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 13:39:23 -0400
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely) 
In-Reply-To: <41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <B8383C3A-E898-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 2:15 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> And remember, both Flash and Director found some success on PC's, and 
> originally shipped with an Xtalk language.

This is mostly true, though Flash never really had an XTalk language, 
it had a unique (and very basic) scripting language which quickly 
evolved to a pseudo JavaScript syntax, and then to fully JS. 
Interestingly, Flash seems to enjoy a greater popularity on Windows, 
while Director developers seem to have (even today) a disproportional 
penchant for Mac.

This could make one believe that in general, Windows based developers 
have less interest overall in XTalk languages. I think it could be a 
case of the fact that Mac users don't recognize any correlation between 
"ease of use" and "lack of power", while Windows users equate "hard and 
cryptic" with "more powerful." List members excepted, of course.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Aug  7 13:40:08 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 10:40:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040807140406.00abbc40@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408071038510.5242-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

The support of multiple sound channels, I've been told...

Judy

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Would you agree with that ? Which Mac features are missing ? Are they
> missing because of the multi-platform nature ?


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Aug  7 13:42:01 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 10:42:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <000e01c47c82$3a79a5a0$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408071040580.5242-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Indeed, why hasn't speech on Windows been fixed yet? Hasn't it been a year
or more?

Judy

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Stephen King wrote:

> Speech capability seems to have vanished from the PC as far as I can see and
> media playing is still restricted if QT is not installed.




From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Aug  7 13:44:28 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 10:44:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <001401c47c8a$deb60b60$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408071043520.5242-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Is your problem with WAVs related to whether they are compressed or
uncompressed?

Judy

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Stephen King wrote:

> Klaus, How did you manage WAVs? I am sure I have not managed to play a
> windows WAV file in Rev without QT being installed? To me it was a big
> problem as WAV is still the 'native' recording type for windows for many
> apps and earlier Win versions.


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 13:55:44 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 13:55:44 -0400
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
	<E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <00E521F2-E89B-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 1:19 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> At the end of the day, RR has to find niches where cross-platform 
> development is important or even critical. Those niches exist. But 
> they are not mainstream programmers on either platform (and certainly 
> not on *nix, whose developers seem to prefer Open Source tools). To 
> delude itself into thinking it will *ever* make significant inroads 
> into any traditional programming market would, I think, be the end of 
> RR.

I have to say, I completely agree. In general, Windows developers are 
simply not seeking a tool like this. Many Mac developers are, as well 
as many developers who are specifically looking for X-plat capability.

For me, X-plat is an absolute necessity. For one thing, I work on Macs 
exclusively. This is strictly my choice and preference. But my clients 
need Windows apps, and only occasionally a Mac version.

I have to admit, I've been studying Apples XCode in the past week, if 
only to better understand what I am currently choosing *not* to use. So 
far as I can see, the only way to develop X-plat using a single 
code-base with XCode would be to do so in Java, and I'm not sure I'm 
interested in that route. The package is VERY compelling though...
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug  7 14:18:30 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 11:18:30 -0700
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <00E521F2-E89B-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
	<E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<00E521F2-E89B-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <2F9BBEE0-E89E-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Troy.....

On Aug 7, 2004, at 10:55 AM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> So far as I can see, the only way to develop X-plat using a single 
> code-base with XCode would be to do so in Java, and I'm not sure I'm 
> interested in that route.

Don't get caught in THAT trap. I have several friends who are serious 
Java programmers. They maintain that Java's "write once, run  anywhere" 
promise has NEVER been fulfilled and that they find it doesn't even 
come up to the standard of "write once, debug everywhere." They're 
using Java almost exclusively for server-side stuff these days; very 
few new apps are being written in pure Java for xplat deployment.

Further proof, I think, that the demand for cross-platform development 
tools is small and largely Mac-focused.

BTW, in my earlier too-long contribution to this dialog, I neglected to 
say that if I were writing apps for OS X only, I'd probably be inclined 
to learn and use Objective C and XCode. For me, the one big failing in 
Revolution is and always will be its lack of object orientation. But I 
remain willing to forego that lack in return for the ability to develop 
Windows apps without having to use Windows all day to do it.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From warren at howsoft.com  Sat Aug  7 14:32:26 2004
From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:32:26 -0300
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
Message-ID: <004e01c47cad$2f7ec4c0$0301a8c0@john>

I have only ever "dabbled" in RunRev and I have left it alone for the major
part of the last 2 years when I first made contact with RunRev. Since then,
I have been waiting for it to turn into a product truly describable as
"decent" in comparison with VB that I am much more used to.

Not long ago, after breaking contact with the RunRev IDE for a very long
time and forgetting even the one or two little things I learned in the first
place, I tried making a variation of the "Hello World!" project and testing
it before making a standalone.

I documented this attempt at testing the project and recorded my confusions
in an article at http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/article.htm .
If anyone has the patience to read through this illustrated story, would
they please enlighten me as to the "higher purpose" of "persistent
properties" when test-running a Rev project! (The meaning or "persistent
properties" is abundantly clear in the article.)

Thanks.



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 14:36:39 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:36:39 -0400
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <2F9BBEE0-E89E-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
	<E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<00E521F2-E89B-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<2F9BBEE0-E89E-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <B85B10E4-E8A0-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 2:18 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> BTW, in my earlier too-long contribution to this dialog, I neglected 
> to say that if I were writing apps for OS X only, I'd probably be 
> inclined to learn and use Objective C and XCode.

XCode is *almost* enough to make me want to be a Mac-only developer... 
and then I remember that I have bills to pay.  ;-)

Naw. I'm not heading the Java route. Not productive enough. Today's 
choices for X-plat application development, (rather than multimedia 
where Director still reigns supreme) are RealBasic and Revolution. They 
both have their advantages. Currently, Revolution is in the lead for me 
as it is more generally versatile, can be extremely productive and 
offers more delivery techniques in addition to being more truly X-plat 
coding. If that could be strengthened with more graphics functionality 
(both 2D and 3D) I probably wouldn't bother looking around, or needing 
to constantly switch tools based on project requirements.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 14:51:57 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 20:51:57 +0200
Subject: Localizer - Transcriptlator - opinion request
In-Reply-To: <20040807145633.54974.qmail@web40513.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAECDGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


> > I wrote a transcript translator engine for c,
> > pascal, basic
> > which also handles parts of fortran, php, flash,
> > java and js.
> 
> This is extraordinary!

Not really but a lot of work scripting and debugging...

> If you have a website, you could
> provide this service via a Rev CGI.

> The user enters your webpage, paste their
> code in a field and click on buttons to
> set options and send the data to your
> stack running in RevCGI.
> 
> I have cgi running in my site, if you are
> interested to make this available this way.

hmmm... Unfortunately you cant print a big 
"sample" philigram across code... I'll see what 
I can do about a demo... 

My plan nowadays is to make publisheable applications. 

But I had this stack nearly ready after some more c 
and basic translations I did for primes computing. 

> > If there is interest or need for them, I will put
> > this or both stacks in my priority list.
> 
> Are you going to comment on every translation?

I havent thought about that yet ;)
But the original comments are left as they are.
I dont recommend this exercise for novices though. 

> This will become like a Rosetta stone for
> developers. It's an exciting development tool.

It doens't do cunieform or hiperogliphicscripts 
yets though ;) Transcript translation to the other
languages is also dubious in use. And by the time
humanity reaches Mars as a vacation spot, Transcript
surely will be obsolete ;)

> > For your info, the translators take care of
> > translating the 
> > basics of any language into Transcript. It's not 100
> > perfect 
> > naturally but it saves you about 80% of the time in
> > translating
> > from one language to transcript.
> 
> It'll be highly useful if you provide
> comments on the translation choices
> along with the translation.

I dont see much the use of it though...
It wont translate complex stuff, so the script
is as explanatory as the stuff it changes...
Some of the parsed structures could be commented
for possible errors. 
But I'll consider the cases when possible.

> I'm sure that some expressions could be
> handled in different ways. An explanation
> is always welcome.

Maybe comments to warn you that you have to
do the pointer's array translation yourself! ;)

I'll start writing a faq as questions pour in.

No one has answered my question yet...

> So, When do we see this tool? :-))

Here's a few screenshots...
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=2

From Cubist at aol.com  Sat Aug  7 14:39:29 2004
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:39:29 EDT
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
Message-ID: <88.1109f362.2e467be1@aol.com>

   Well, well, well. So some of the guys on the PC side of the fence find Rev 
alien to their usual habits/expectations? They wonder why Rev doesn't court 
*them* assiduously enough? They can't figure out why *their* platform-of-choice 
is largely ignored?
   Heh!
   I'm a Mac user of long standing, and I got one thing to say to those PC 
users:
   Welcome to *our* world, baby. Think about it.

   Okay, whatever substance there may be to complaints of an "excess" of Mac 
focus, the above mini-rant doesn't do squat to address them... but after years 
and years of seeing the PC boys act, not just like the Universe *does* around 
them, but that the Universe *can, should, and MUST* revolve around them? All 
I can say is that it's *great* fun to see the shoe on the *other* foot, for 
once. This doesn't make me a paragon of tolerance, to be sure, but I'm only 
human, you know? I believe our German friends have a very relevant word -- 
"schadenfreude" (which I may or may not have spelled correctly)...

   Now that I've got that out of my system: What things do you PC boys find 
lacking in the PC implementation of Rev? Let's see if we can't assemble a list 
of 'weak points'. Once we've got that list, we can maybe discover which of 
those 'holes' is something the good folk of RunRev can reasonably do something 
about, which ones you're stuck with until Microsoft gets its act together, and 
yada yada yada. I'll start:

   Text-to-speech. It's my understanding (gained from past posts to this 
mailing list) that TTS is pretty much broken on the PC side, and it's going to 
*stay* broken until Microsoft gets its act together and *fixes* it.

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 15:02:03 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:02:03 +0200
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408071040580.5242-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKECDGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


I've heard it work but never tried. I think directx is required and as
usual those who use it for example in games prefer samples...

Anyway, making Fruityloops talk is too much fun, you can twist the sound
so much it can sound like your Mac is talking! It actually reminds
me of macintalk!

Did speech recognition continue on the mac btw?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Judy Perry
> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 19:42
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
>
>
> Indeed, why hasn't speech on Windows been fixed yet? Hasn't it been a year
> or more?
>
> Judy
>
> On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Stephen King wrote:
>
> > Speech capability seems to have vanished from the PC as far as
> I can see and
> > media playing is still restricted if QT is not installed.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 14:49:46 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:49:46 -0400
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
In-Reply-To: <004e01c47cad$2f7ec4c0$0301a8c0@john>
References: <004e01c47cad$2f7ec4c0$0301a8c0@john>
Message-ID: <8DB65A58-E8A2-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 2:32 PM, Bob Warren wrote:

> I documented this attempt at testing the project and recorded my 
> confusions
> in an article at http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/article.htm .
> If anyone has the patience to read through this illustrated story, 
> would
> they please enlighten me as to the "higher purpose" of "persistent
> properties" when test-running a Rev project! (The meaning or 
> "persistent
> properties" is abundantly clear in the article.)

The "higher purpose" is that it makes it extremely easy to save a users 
input values, drawings, data, etc. simply by saving the stack. It is 
basically a shifting of how you think about programming. The concept 
that it shouldn't be hard to save a user's input and data is one of the 
driving forces behind this.

To correct this, all Bob needed to do was place scripts like -

on openCard
	put EMPTY into Field "Field 1"
end openCard

This would clear the field each time the card was opened.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Aug  7 14:52:16 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 20:52:16 +0200
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
	<E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <E6B490C9-E8A2-11D8-9202-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Thanks for this debate, Dan and Chipp,

Best Regards, Pierre

Le 7 ao?t 04, ? 19:19, Dan Shafer a ?crit :

> Chipp.........
>
> You knew I'd have to chime in here. :-)
>
> Not simply to be contrarian, but I do not believe RR has any serious 
> chance of making real inroads into other platforms. Period. No matter 
> what they do. Over the decades -- yes, decades! -- I've been in this 
> business, I bet I've seen 100 or more development platforms, 
> languages, and tools emerge that would have made Windows programmers 
> more productive and efficient. Not one of them thrived. Only a few 
> survived.
>
> Now you could go through the list and find something wrong with every 
> one of them, I'm sure. A reason they failed. But I submit that if in 
> all that time, no new language or tool that wasn't backed by a huge 
> company (Microsoft in particular but also Sun and IBM and, for a while 
> at least, Borland) ever made real inroads. My belief -- and I confess 
> that it is only a belief, not something I can support with anything 
> stronger than my own experiences an insights -- is that Windows 
> developers are principally if not exclusively interested in developing 
> for the Windows platform and that the Bandwagon Effect results in the 
> vast majority of them using mainstream tools. Hell, Java doesn't even 
> have significant presence among pure Windows developers; it's been 
> shifted to the enterprise/server side of the equation and Microsoft is 
> on the verge of dislodging even that penetration.
>
> Oh, sure, there is a minuscule number of programmers who experience a 
> Smalltalk or a Revolution or an Objective C and say, "Wow, I can be 
> way more productive than my competitors with this. I think I'll use it 
> instead of C++ or C#." And some of them stick with their 
> out-of-the-mainstream tools. But most don't. Eventually, the fact that 
> 95% of their colleagues are using other tools with widespread library 
> support, fellow programmers to exchange code and ideas with, and all 
> the other components of the Bandwagon Effect drag most of them back to 
> the mainstream tools.
>
> This is true even on the Mac. Only a minority of desktop app 
> developers who develop  for the Mac are ultimately interested in 
> selling Windows products. (I'm not saying this *should* be the case, 
> but it's a reality nonetheless.) CodeWarrior lets hard-core C types 
> deliver cross-platform but they're a bit player on both sides of the 
> fence. Apple's dev tools, esp under OS X, are awesome and powerful. 
> Every single Mac programmer I know uses them and not Revolution 
> despite the fact that they could use Rev and greatly expand their 
> market. In some cases, they are working for an all-Mac customer or 
> client base. In  others, they just don't care; they'd rather build 
> apps with all of the coolness and nuance of a Mac app and forego the 
> Windows marketplace than compromise. In effect, this is another face 
> of the same argument you make for why RR needs to make the product 
> less Mac-centric: developers on those "other" platforms want to see 
> tools that feel like those platforms.
>
> At the end of the day, RR has to find niches where cross-platform 
> development is important or even critical. Those niches exist. But 
> they are not mainstream programmers on either platform (and certainly 
> not on *nix, whose developers seem to prefer Open Source tools). To 
> delude itself into thinking it will *ever* make significant inroads 
> into any traditional programming market would, I think, be the end of 
> RR. I think they should focus exclusively on  the folks I call 
> Inventive Users who are not full-time professional coders, who can 
> make a tool switch without a huge technical or social cost, and who 
> are at least interested in if not motivated by the possibility of 
> cross-platform development.
>
> As it happens, I think that audience is at least 10 times as large as 
> the professional programming audience and vastly more receptive to new 
> development tools and technologies. But reaching that audience is 
> tricky.
>
> On Aug 6, 2004, at 11:15 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>> I also believe there is too much 'Mac' centric focus in RR. The GUI 
>> is completely Mac based, and so is much of the marketing focus. 
>> Though, this does represent the 'low-hanging fruit', RR won't ever 
>> truly make inroads onto other platforms w/out a concerted marketing 
>> effort by the company.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 15:12:12 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:12:12 +0200
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <B85B10E4-E8A0-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIECEGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


Troy,

> coding. If that could be strengthened with more graphics functionality
> (both 2D and 3D) I probably wouldn't bother looking around, or needing
> to constantly switch tools based on project requirements.

While looking at some graphic functions theory and how to translate,
Actionscript, java to TS, I noticed that the 3D in Flash is simply
anymations
made in Swivel3D. The rest is just smart line handling.

I plan to do some 3D again soon... It's hard but result is always fun
to watch... One nice feature of RR to implement this will be the irregular
polygon which with a matrix set of operations converts 2D to easy 3D...

Here's a nice Flash tutorial I found...
http://www.codylindley.com/Tutorials/trigonometry/index.htm

cheers
Xavier


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 15:12:12 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:12:12 +0200
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <2F9BBEE0-E89E-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGECEGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


> [snip] For me, the one big failing in 
> Revolution is and always will be its lack of object orientation. But I 
> remain willing to forego that lack in return for the ability to develop 
> Windows apps without having to use Windows all day to do it.

Dan, 

That's just a matter of algorithmic and smart parsing/variable passing.

between handling 

[snip]
newclient = &new client.id++;
[snip]

and 

go to stack clients
create card

I choose the later! OOP is a phylosophy or a point of view...
And with database handling in RR (which I havent tested mind you)
you dont have to do hoops to manage/navigate the info. 

Smart stack design gives you easily relational databases and if you really
need OOP in your stack, you can do a little C++ external as Richard always
suggests ;)

cheers
Xavier



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 15:07:41 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:07:41 -0400
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIECEGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIECEGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <0E370E8E-E8A5-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 3:12 PM, MisterX wrote:

> While looking at some graphic functions theory and how to translate,
> Actionscript, java to TS, I noticed that the 3D in Flash is simply
> anymations
> made in Swivel3D. The rest is just smart line handling.

This is true, Flash is not much of a 3D environment... well, actually 
it doesn't have one at all. I've done some 3D in Flash (with swift3D) 
and I've used exporter tools from 3D apps which generate "rendered" 
vectors of 3D scenes, but it isn't the same, since the user cannot 
change camera angles, etc.

I'd like to see a true 3D layer in Rev, probably based on openGL. 
Director has this, as does RealBasic, and it is one of the areas that 
Rev is behind. An antialiased 2D library is missing as well. Fast 
bitmap manipulation like Director has with "Imaging lingo" is another. 
Graphically, Rev is a long way behind in pretty much every way, and I'm 
hoping to see that change.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Aug  7 15:16:30 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:16:30 +0200
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <2F9BBEE0-E89E-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
	<E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<00E521F2-E89B-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<2F9BBEE0-E89E-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <495EFCE3-E8A6-11D8-9202-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 7 ao?t 04, ? 20:18, Dan Shafer a ?crit :

>  They're using Java almost exclusively for server-side stuff these 
> days; very few new apps are being written in pure Java for xplat 
> deployment.

And on the server-side, Java is only usable to code WEB / EAI 
applications servers, mainly not as is in core Java but in using lots 
of different frameworks and components to be set-up together witch 
means : Java is mainly used by teams in sharing/storing the work via 
CVS servers, not persons working alone from the begining to the end of 
the life-cycle of a product.

Java is mainly a low-level development paradigm, even if because the 
framworks and J2EE platforms about marketing, all is done to let us 
expect something more usefull and different. The "best thing" with Java 
is that this language is usable by the low-level developers the 
computing and consulting compagnies are prospecting for low costs all 
over the world, in India, Pakinstan, China or Maroco.

In about Desktop apps, Java is just not the tool to use. Too slow, even 
in replacing the Swing libraries by the Eclipse's SWT ones...

Regards, Pierre
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
> Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
> Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Aug  7 15:24:43 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 12:24:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <88.1109f362.2e467be1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408071223270.5242-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I thought the problem was that MS changed its TTS right around the time
that Rev implemented it for the previous TTS system and that Rev was going
to fix it on the Rev side to be compliant with MS's TTS kit.

Am I wrong?

Judy

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 Cubist at aol.com wrote:

>    Text-to-speech. It's my understanding (gained from past posts to this
> mailing list) that TTS is pretty much broken on the PC side, and it's going to
> *stay* broken until Microsoft gets its act together and *fixes* it.


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Aug  7 15:36:59 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:36:59 +0200
Subject: Rev 2.2.1 for Linux very impressive !
Message-ID: <25E830C2-E8A9-11D8-9202-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Just to share that i discovered that Rev 2.2.1 is realy impressive 
under Linux x86. Works yet just as expected : i can go head with it 
under the linux platform too. Cool, cool, cool ;)

Best Regards, Pierre


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Sat Aug  7 16:22:09 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:22:09 EDT
Subject: image size and depth
Message-ID: <e6.55bdfe58.2e4693f1@aol.com>

 
 
Import a gif at double the dimensions. Scale in Rev to 50%. Print at  144dpi. 
Or its jpgs... one does, the other doesn't.
 
/H
 
> These app, incl. Rev, treat every image "as is", that means x pixels  in
> width and y pixels in height  but with screen-resolution = 72  dpi...





From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Aug  7 16:42:57 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 13:42:57 -0700
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <5D738418-E8B2-11D8-B39D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Saturday, August 7, 2004, at 10:19 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Chipp.........
>
> You knew I'd have to chime in here. :-)
>
> Not simply to be contrarian, but I do not believe RR has any serious 
> chance of making real inroads into other platforms. ...

Brilliant!

Mark


From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Sat Aug  7 16:52:34 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:52:34 +0100
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
References: <20040807185534.EDA2F9301C3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c47cc0$774a7570$5602a8c0@athalon>

Hi
Cubist wrote...

>    I'm a Mac user of long standing, and I got one thing to say to those PC
> users:
>    Welcome to *our* world, baby. Think about it.

Don't get me wrong, I was only saying that for Rev to get into the big
market (here in the UK), they need to show the program is PC orientated as
well which doesn't appear to come across. The UK Mac market appears to be
tiny. If REV is intended primarily as a tool for mac users to produce apps
for the wider market, then fine. I  wouldn't want to get into the argument
about which platform is better. The discussion was more about marketting I
think. Of course, Dan may be right and niche markets may be the target
anyway.

>
>    Text-to-speech. It's my understanding (gained from past posts to this
> mailing list) that TTS is pretty much broken on the PC side, and it's
going to
> *stay* broken until Microsoft gets its act together and *fixes* it.
>
Back last year when 2.xx first came out, the problem was identified as Rev
not working with SAPI5, but it did work with SAPI 4. Unfortunately, Win XP
uses SAPI5 and was not a new OS at that time and even my Win 98 (released
1997/98 but free upgrades to about 2002) uses SAPI 5.
In July 2003 REV said that they were fixing so it worked with SAPI 5. I
don't think anything has been heard since. As far as I know, Windows hasn't
changed, but I could be mistaken.

For me, reliance on 3rd party QT is a *big* issue.

Cheers
Steve


From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Sat Aug  7 17:02:23 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 22:02:23 +0100
Subject: sound in revolution
References: <20040807185534.EDA2F9301C3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <001301c47cc1$d60b8cb0$5602a8c0@athalon>

Hi Judy,

Judy wrote..

>Is your problem with WAVs related to whether they are compressed or
>uncompressed?
>Judy

Dunno, How do I tell? From memory I am sure I just used windows recorder to
record a Wav file. I know newer recorder can also do MP3 but I have a number
of older Windows WAV files to use.

Does it work one way or the other?
I normally test across 2 PCs - I have one with QT on and the other does not
have QT.
I know my target (school PCs) do not have QT.

Cheers
Steve

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Stephen King wrote:

> Klaus, How did you manage WAVs? I am sure I have not managed to play a
> windows WAV file in Rev without QT being installed? To me it was a big
> problem as WAV is still the 'native' recording type for windows for many
> apps and earlier Win versions.


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 17:18:39 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:18:39 -0400
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <000c01c47cc0$774a7570$5602a8c0@athalon>
References: <20040807185534.EDA2F9301C3@mail.runrev.com>
	<000c01c47cc0$774a7570$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <5A461AAE-E8B7-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 4:52 PM, Stephen King wrote:

> For me, reliance on 3rd party QT is a *big* issue.

This is true, and frequently heard with all tools that use multimedia - 
from the Windows side of things. It is a non-issue on Mac, and wouldn't 
even qualify as "third party." Consider that, for cross-platform 
compatibility, RealBasic and Director both rely on QuickTime as well.

QuickTime is the only multimedia "enabling technology" which endeavors 
to provide full cross platform parity. Writing an equivalent 
independent library is a HUGE non-trivial task considering the shear 
amount of media types which must be supported. Virtually all authoring 
environments rely on QT for good reason - it puts the costs, tasks and 
responsibility for maintaining this entire segment of functionality on 
Apple. I'm sure if Microsoft were to bother itself with providing such 
a technology for both platforms, with an identical feature set, it 
would be something which could be considered. But they don't, and 
aren't likely to.

Out of curiosity, what functionality specifically do you need which 
then requires QuickTime? Rev can obviously run happily without it, and 
some basic media types are even supported in that case - but beyond 
that, QuickTime is required to do the heavy lifting.

And, I take it that one of the issues is that the Rev installer doesn't 
invoke the QuickTime installer? That should seem to be resolvable...
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug  7 17:25:18 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:25:18 -0500
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <88.1109f362.2e467be1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD3AB2EE.3794%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/7/04 1:39 PM, "Cubist at aol.com" <Cubist at aol.com> wrote:

>    Now that I've got that out of my system: What things do you PC boys find
> lacking in the PC implementation of Rev?

Here's a couple of goodies:

1) Inability to use ActiveX or COM controls (although with Chipp's
altBrowser you can use them in a web browser, but that's different).

2) Inability to call the Windows API (something which almost every PC-based
development environment is able to do - RealBasic, VB, etc.).

3) Inability to call "normal" (i.e. not developed specifically for Rev)
DLLs.

Until a couple of these items are addressed (specifically the API calls),
Rev really can't swim in the "big pond". There are other more "niggly" items
I can think of, but if these three were implemented, we could use those
avenues to deal with those situations. For example:

- Displaying notification icons (the ballooon in the system tray)

- Being able to create new registry keys in the Windows registry

- Ability to call VBScript as easily as AppleScript ("do <script> as
VBScript")

You get the idea...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com





From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 17:31:41 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:31:41 -0400
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <BD3AB2EE.3794%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD3AB2EE.3794%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <2C070D22-E8B9-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 5:25 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Here's a couple of goodies:
>
> 1) Inability to use ActiveX or COM controls (although with Chipp's
> altBrowser you can use them in a web browser, but that's different).

I know Director can use ActiveX, what other x-plat tools can? Does 
RealBasic?
>
> 3) Inability to call "normal" (i.e. not developed specifically for Rev)
> DLLs.

Which x-plat development tools can do this?

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug  7 17:47:36 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:47:36 -0500
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BD3AB828.379B%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/7/04 12:19 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> Chipp.........
> 
> You knew I'd have to chime in here. :-)
> 
> Not simply to be contrarian, but I do not believe RR has any serious
> chance of making real inroads into other platforms.

Dan, you make a very compelling argument about the use of non-Bandwagon
Effect tools making inroads to other platforms. But before I agree with you,
I'd like to clarify some things that I've seen from my experience as well.

First of all, the main places I've seen where there are problems adopting
non-mainstream tools is in the *corporate* workplace - i.e. big companies.
Most big companies only feel comfortable using other big companies' tools,
primarily because they feel that the longevity of the company is not in
question, and that "if thousands of other developers are using the product,
why shouldn't we" (the Bandwagon Effect).

Also, keep in mind that most corporate settings only hire people into their
engineering space that have specific C/C++/Java/etc. backgrounds and so they
are by nature already biased towards specific tools. And the person (or
persons) who directs them would take an incredible risk to go with an
unknown (or little known) development environment for anything that is
mission critical. In the companies I worked for, tools like Rev were more
used for internal apps or prototyping situations when they were used at all.

So accordingly, it is in the *corporate* space that I see Rev (or other
tools for that matter) having little chance of making inroads.

However, I would disagree with you when it comes to the
small-to-medium-sized businesses out there. Most of them just want to "get
the job done", as quickly, efficiently, and cost-effectively as possible.
Not that they are willing to go with an unknown because of the promise of
efficiency - they too care about longevity and support of the development
environment, but in those situations it is likely they don't have
programmers on staff and are having to contract out development. It is also
likely that it is someone near the top of the food chain at said company (a
manager or even the owner of the company if the company's small enough) that
will be dealing directly with the contract programmer(s) involved. They also
have little or no experience in what tools are out there, or what tools are
on the "bandwagon". So they are much more open.

*Here* is where Rev (and other tools of its ilk) *can* make inroads. All
that it takes is enough compelling evidence that RunRev isn't going
anywhere, that the underlying engine has been around for a decade, and that
it is the most efficient way to develop the application/product they want,
and it's a much higher chance that said company will allow for a tool like
Rev to be used.

This space is where I (and I'm sure others on this list) get most of the
contract work. Although I'm now a contractor, I used to be the Director of
Systems Development at a corporation with a dozen+ programmers under my
direction. At *that* time, it was nearly impossible to get MetaCard in the
door (although we had *some* success at it). Now, the people I deal with
mostly are small-to-medium-sized businesses that just want the job done. And
I've used MetaCard/Rev in over 70% of the jobs I've done over the last
several years.

And this discussion is primarily focused on Windows. I'm not sure if the
same sentiment (either Dan's or mine) relates to the Linux/Unix marketplace
(such as it is), since my experience there is very limited.

So to say "I do not believe RR has any serious chance of making real inroads
into other platforms" is a statement I both agree and disagree with.

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug  7 17:53:08 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:53:08 -0500
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <2C070D22-E8B9-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD3AB974.379D%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/7/04 4:31 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> 
> On Aug 7, 2004, at 5:25 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
> 
>> Here's a couple of goodies:
>> 
>> 1) Inability to use ActiveX or COM controls (although with Chipp's
>> altBrowser you can use them in a web browser, but that's different).
> 
> I know Director can use ActiveX, what other x-plat tools can? Does
> RealBasic?

Actually, yes.

>> 
>> 3) Inability to call "normal" (i.e. not developed specifically for Rev)
>> DLLs.
> 
> Which x-plat development tools can do this?

Troy, as was stated before by someone more eloquent than me, PC programmers
may or may not care about the cross-platform nature of Rev. So I wouldn't be
comparing Rev to other cross-platform tools when looking at Windows
development needs - I'd be comparing Rev to other mainstream PC development
environments. And for *those*, the answer is *yes*, all those tools can do
what I proposed Rev should do.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 18:01:14 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 18:01:14 -0400
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <BD3AB974.379D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD3AB974.379D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <4D10BD08-E8BD-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 5:53 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>>
>> Which x-plat development tools can do this?
>
> Troy, as was stated before by someone more eloquent than me, PC 
> programmers
> may or may not care about the cross-platform nature of Rev. So I 
> wouldn't be
> comparing Rev to other cross-platform tools when looking at Windows
> development needs - I'd be comparing Rev to other mainstream PC 
> development
> environments. And for *those*, the answer is *yes*, all those tools 
> can do
> what I proposed Rev should do.

Yes, I gotcha. I just wanted to be sure that there wasn't some X-plat 
tool which had this in place as well.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 17:31:58 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:31:58 -0400
Subject: Rev 2.2.1 for Linux very impressive !
In-Reply-To: <25E830C2-E8A9-11D8-9202-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
References: <25E830C2-E8A9-11D8-9202-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <3657CF28-E8B9-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 3:36 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Just to share that i discovered that Rev 2.2.1 is realy impressive 
> under Linux x86. Works yet just as expected : i can go head with it 
> under the linux platform too. Cool, cool, cool ;)

Yes, I have a Linux system up and running and it is really nice, but 
now I'm wondering - has anyone tried the Linux version of Revolution 
running under X11 Darwin?

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug  7 18:02:00 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 17:02:00 -0500
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
In-Reply-To: <8DB65A58-E8A2-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD3ABB88.37A1%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/7/04 1:49 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> To correct this, all Bob needed to do was place scripts like -
> 
> on openCard
> put EMPTY into Field "Field 1"
> end openCard
> 
> This would clear the field each time the card was opened.

The other way would be to make sure the fields were empty, and then set the
'cantModify' of the stack to true, and save the stack. The next and
subsequent times that it opened, the fields would be empty.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug  7 18:05:28 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 17:05:28 -0500
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <4D10BD08-E8BD-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD3ABC58.37A6%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/7/04 5:01 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> Yes, I gotcha. I just wanted to be sure that there wasn't some X-plat
> tool which had this in place as well.

Well, RB supports API calls and ActiveX, but not accessing normal Windows
DLLs directly, I believe. Directory as you said has ActiveX support and I
*think* there's an Xtra that lets you call the API (I may be wrong on that).
Flash has none of the above. :-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 18:54:31 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:54:31 +0200
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <BD3AB2EE.3794%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEECIGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Ken,

> - Being able to create new registry keys in the Windows registry
> 
> - Ability to call VBScript as easily as AppleScript ("do <script> as
> VBScript")

But it is easy and noticeably shorter and doesn't block RR...

on doVBS x
  get shell("start" && x)
end doVBS

Although not built in, these are easy to do with the shell type commands.
Unlike externals, they dont tie up the RR environment (dont have to) and
there's so many...

>From there you can also access COM, and DLL objects too probably.
Check out shellcity.net for a good start at what is available...

cheers
Xavier





From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  7 18:40:41 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:40:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (;-) = ?
In-Reply-To: <5C2641F4-E724-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20040807224041.83978.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

(;-)

is this an artifact from
some cybernetic Ursprache?

=====
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From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug  7 18:58:27 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:58:27 +0200
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <BD3ABC58.37A6%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGECIGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

remember flash is web based primarily so it's normal it cant do those.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ray
> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 00:05
> To: Use Revolution List
> Subject: Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
> 
> 
> On 8/7/04 5:01 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:
> 
> > Yes, I gotcha. I just wanted to be sure that there wasn't some X-plat
> > tool which had this in place as well.
> 
> Well, RB supports API calls and ActiveX, but not accessing normal Windows
> DLLs directly, I believe. Directory as you said has ActiveX support and I
> *think* there's an Xtra that lets you call the API (I may be 
> wrong on that).
> Flash has none of the above. :-)
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From FMoyer at aol.com  Sat Aug  7 18:49:00 2004
From: FMoyer at aol.com (FMoyer at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 18:49:00 EDT
Subject: imagedata problem
  Ken Ray
Message-ID: <6d.304dc47a.2e46b65c@aol.com>

Does anyone else have this experience? -- I'm trying to analyze the imagedata 
of a whole bunch of grayscale images.

The problem is that the imagedata for almost every pixel is:
     0,191,191,191
or 
     0,85,85,85
or 
     0,200,200,200

Each image has its own favorite number and it seems to make no difference 
whether the pixel is actually white or black or gray.   On the other hand, there 
are parts of the image (usually the far left side or the far right side) where 
believable numbers suddenly appear.

These images are bxw tiffs that I turned into transparent gifs in 
GraphicConverter. But I don't understand: if the imageData is corrupt, why do the images 
look fine?

Any ideas how I can figure out the correct imagedata? Maybe I'm mistaken, but 
I'm expecting to see white pixels listed as: "0,255,255,255" and black   
pixels: "0,0,0,0"

Thanks.
Fred Moyer

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  7 19:04:15 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:04:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sound in revolution -- available MIDI resources
In-Reply-To: <0CAC56CF-E6DE-11D8-B522-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20040807230415.54038.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>

MIDI in RunRev

Windows:
http://flexiblelearning.com/xtalk.htm

Mac
Shakobox at:
<http://www.hyperactivesw.com/shakobox.html>

UDI at: http://homepage.mac.com/udi/

Kurt Kaufman: a SMF stack bundled with RR

the mac apps all take different approaches.
Joe Bob says check them out.
the Windows flexi, hope to try soon.

this month i will be updating my
RunRev Fanzine with a section on
MIDI: emphasis on programming tightly
with Animation. it must be possible to sync
movement with musical structure in RunRev.
at least by measure if not by beat. 

if anyone has any Midi apps, handlers, code
that they would like to contribute, maybe
we can get something going. the emphasis will
be on links to your sites.

thank you,

Erik Hansen


=====
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From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  7 19:18:32 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:18:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 3d graphics in RR/MC [again]
In-Reply-To: <20040807185534.EDA2F9301C3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040807231832.59818.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com>

Troy wrote:

> [snip] If that RR could be strengthened with more
> graphics functionality
> (both 2D and 3D) I probably wouldn't bother
> looking around, or needing
> to constantly switch tools based on project
> requirements.

xavier bury wrote:

> While looking at some graphic functions theory and
> how to translate,
> Actionscript, java to TS, I noticed that the 3D in
> Flash is simply
> anymations
> made in Swivel3D. The rest is just smart line
> handling.
> 
> I plan to do some 3D again soon... It's hard but
> result is always fun
> to watch... One nice feature of RR to implement this
> will be the irregular
> polygon which with a matrix set of operations
> converts 2D to easy 3D...

Hi Troy and Xavier,

Download the stack Rotater Manipulator from:

<http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/Rotater_Manipulator_v1a.zip>

This is an adaptation of the HC stack of Alexander
Thomas that you could download from his website:
 
<http://www.dr-lex.34sp.com/software/3dstuff.html>

I've added 3D matrix math to make the transformations
still more faster and included the "Live" option
suggested by Jim Hurley (use this option with
models of a few lines like the cube and some simple
shapes like the Fighter and the Tank).

Read the Help card (second card)
of this stack for useful information.

I've invited to Alexander Thomas to test RunRev 
by himself and to visit us in the mail list.

Enjoy! :-))

al


=====
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http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
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From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug  7 19:20:25 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:20:25 -0700
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <BD3AB828.379B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD3AB828.379B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <5CEF9DCC-E8C8-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Ken....

Good observations based (obviously) on experience. You may be right, 
though I wonder how easily this kind of market is located and tapped. 
Other comments below.

On Aug 7, 2004, at 2:47 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> However, I would disagree with you when it comes to the
> small-to-medium-sized businesses out there. Most of them just want to 
> "get
> the job done", as quickly, efficiently, and cost-effectively as 
> possible.
>
While I think that's fundamentally true, it's also true that they look 
at total cost of ownership. And the big question that *I* hear when I 
propose to use Revolution to do a project centers on the question of 
long-term maintenance. That question, in turn, has two parts: (1) how 
long will the company (RunRev) be around; and (2) if Dan gets run over 
by a dinosaur, how easy will it be for me to find another Rev 
developer? I can usually get by the first one by explaining the whole 
engine story but the second has been a show stopper twice. In both 
cases, I simply passed on the contracts because, frankly, I don't want 
to get really good at any more programming languages. I'm getting too 
old. :-D

>
> *Here* is where Rev (and other tools of its ilk) *can* make inroads. 
> All
> that it takes is enough compelling evidence that RunRev isn't going
> anywhere, that the underlying engine has been around for a decade, and 
> that
> it is the most efficient way to develop the application/product they 
> want,
> and it's a much higher chance that said company will allow for a tool 
> like
> Rev to be used.

I think you're right that the chances of getting the  small to medium 
sized company to adopt Rev is much higher than that of a corporation. 
But it's still not very high, IMNSHO.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug  7 19:24:30 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:24:30 -0700
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <BD3AB2EE.3794%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD3AB2EE.3794%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <EE91A7A1-E8C8-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Ken....

What you are saying here is that you want a cross-platform tool that 
still allows you to do very platform-specific code. Or maybe you don't 
care about cross-platform as long as you can use the system-specific 
stuff. Either way, I can tell you from bitter experience that creating 
a tool designed to be xplat and then opening the door to proprietary 
OS-based code is a path to disaster for the tool maker and ultimately 
for developers, particularly inventive users who find themselves 
trapped on a single platform by a bad, poorly understood decision.

There has *never* been a true xplat development tool of which I am 
aware that successfully used native system calls and opened the native 
system API. That way lies danger, methinks.

On Aug 7, 2004, at 2:25 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 8/7/04 1:39 PM, "Cubist at aol.com" <Cubist at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>    Now that I've got that out of my system: What things do you PC 
>> boys find
>> lacking in the PC implementation of Rev?
>
> Here's a couple of goodies:
>
> 1) Inability to use ActiveX or COM controls (although with Chipp's
> altBrowser you can use them in a web browser, but that's different).
>
> 2) Inability to call the Windows API (something which almost every 
> PC-based
> development environment is able to do - RealBasic, VB, etc.).
>
> 3) Inability to call "normal" (i.e. not developed specifically for Rev)
> DLLs.
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug  7 19:26:17 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:26:17 -0700
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <BD3AB974.379D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD3AB974.379D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <2E9DC2B0-E8C9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

And therein lies the rub.

I believe it is literally impossible to create an xplat dev tool that 
lets the developer call native system APIs. As an OS X guy, I would 
much rather find xplat ways of accomplishing things that would 
otherwise cause me to have to learn and deal with an underlying OS.


On Aug 7, 2004, at 2:53 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> I wouldn't be
> comparing Rev to other cross-platform tools when looking at Windows
> development needs - I'd be comparing Rev to other mainstream PC 
> development
> environments. And for *those*, the answer is *yes*, all those tools 
> can do
> what I proposed Rev should do.
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Aug  7 19:33:20 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:33:20 -0600
Subject: imagedata problem Ken Ray
In-Reply-To: <6d.304dc47a.2e46b65c@aol.com>
References: <6d.304dc47a.2e46b65c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2A9DAD51-E8CA-11D8-A91E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 4:49 PM, FMoyer at aol.com wrote:

> Does anyone else have this experience? -- I'm trying to analyze the 
> imagedata
> of a whole bunch of grayscale images.
>
What version are you using?  (Some things are fixed in the beta and 
some weird stuff has been added.)

Dar Scott


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  7 20:07:51 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:07:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
In-Reply-To: <20040807185534.EDA2F9301C3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040808000751.13395.qmail@web40512.mail.yahoo.com>

on Sat, 7 Aug 2004
Bob Warren wrote:

[big snip]
> I tried making a variation of the "Hello
> World!" project and testing
> it before making a standalone.

> I documented this attempt at testing the project and
> recorded my confusions
> in an article at
> http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/article.htm .

You provided an invaluable review of the expectatives
of an user of other development platform when
first encounters RR.

I was a HyperCard user and the main inspiration
to keep up learning is/was the extraordinary
body of code and examples created by users
more advanced that me.

Eventually, i hope to add my own knowledge to
this already astounding collection of programs.

One of my biggest concern about the xtalk
platforms (HyperCard, SuperCard, MetaCard, RunRev,
Oracle Media objects, WinPlus, etc, etc...)
is the relative (or factual)isolation of their 
developers and the code they create.

My worst fear is that all that code, all that
isolated efforts will dissapear without trace...
without trace. 

Books, stacks, libraries, applications...
get forgotten and lost forever.

The oldest programmers in the xtalk community
could testify this, better than me.

How many stack or programs you remember have
seen that are not available anymore?

Before working in a project, do you ask yourself:

Did someone else had done this code before in the
X talk platform?
If so, 
Where could i see this code? 
And the errors produced while implementing some 
of the features?

A Pantechnicon for all XTalk code is needed
to answer these questions.

> If anyone has the patience to read through this
> illustrated story, would
> they please enlighten me as to the "higher purpose"
> of "persistent
> properties" when test-running a Rev project! (The
> meaning or "persistent
> properties" is abundantly clear in the article.)

For a while, i try to record all my errors while
programming, but as interesting as it sounds, for
me become a burden over the real task of programming.

So bugs in my code are squashed, cleaned and
forgotten,
not saved for a later study and dissection.

I feel that my errors could teach me a lot on my
thoughts patterns while programming, but first
i had to find an easier way to archive them for 
later study.

I congratulate you for following so closely your
activity while programming. If you could keep
this habit, you'll learn fast and you'll learn well.

About persistent properties, i could say you that
everything is persistent in RR, until you change it.

The only Non persistent object i'm aware are the
variables that get emptied when you close the 
development environment.

If you do not save the stack while closing it,
all the changes are gone too.


Keep up asking and learning with 
the helpful folks of this list!

al



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http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
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From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Aug  7 20:38:00 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:38:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <001301c47cc1$d60b8cb0$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408071736470.9572-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Hi Stephen,

I dunno myself @;-) but think I recall discussions on list that Rev only
likes uncompressed WAVs.  Ask Klaus or search the last month's worth of
posts (for one from Klaus I believe on supported file formats).

HTH,

Judy

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Stephen King wrote:

> Dunno, How do I tell? From memory I am sure I just used windows recorder to
> record a Wav file. I know newer recorder can also do MP3 but I have a number
> of older Windows WAV files to use.


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Aug  7 18:08:37 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:08:37 -0700
Subject: Localizer - Transcriptlator - opinion request
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEBFGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEBFGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <1574739074.20040807150837@ahsoftware.net>

MisterX-

Friday, August 6, 2004, 10:44:02 PM, you wrote:

M> The last piece I added to this stack is a parser that finds
M> all your local assignments and puts them into the script if
M> missing. This script also recognizes also the locals assigned 

We're obviously thinking along the same lines here. I've just been
finishing off and getting ready to publish my Stack Analyzer that has
this as one of its tasks (also namespace conflicts, unquoted string
literals, etc).

M> So the question is whether this last script should be made
M> available separately in a stack from the other translators?

My feeling is that this is a separate feature from cross-language
translation. They're obviously related issues, but there are some
things that are rev-specific, or are at least frowned on in other
languages, and that therefore seem to be out of the realm of
translation itself. I'm in particular thinking of the strong typing
present in C and java, and to a lesser extent in basic.

BTW - if you start a new thread with a real subject line instead of
replying to the middle of an existing one there's more of a chance it
will be seen. I missed your original message the first time through
because it was buried in a thread that I was ignoring.

-- 
 -Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From warren at howsoft.com  Sat Aug  7 21:26:12 2004
From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 22:26:12 -0300
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
Message-ID: <008e01c47ce6$f2ce5fb0$0301a8c0@john>

Dear Troy and Ken,

As far as I can see, the suggested solution -

on openCard
    put EMPTY into Field "Field 1"
end openCard

- is more or less the same as I described in the article
(http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/article.htm ):

on openCard
    Set the text of Field1 to ""
end openCard

What worries me about this solution is that if my program set 99 other
properties when I test-ran it, would I have to put 99 other statements of
this type in the openCard handler?

In relation to the suggestion about setting the stack to 'cantModify', I
find that if I do this, Rev won't allow me to save the stack at all!

Regarding the "higher purpose" of retaining acquired properties once the
program test-run has been ended, I am fully prepared to believe that I am
suffering from blind-spots because of my experience with VB and that higher
purposes really exist, but at this point I have some difficulty still:

1. Why would I want to save the user's input values in the stack?
2. As the article indicated, I was aware of an (outdated?) use of retaining
drawings. But in practical terms nowadays I wouldn't do that anyway because
of the "jaggies", and as I showed in my article at
http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/svg.htm , the best solution to drawing (for me
at least) is with vector graphics using the altBrowser.

>On 8/7/04 1:49 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

<The "higher purpose" is that it makes it extremely easy to save a users
<input values, drawings, data, etc. simply by saving the stack. It is
<basically a shifting of how you think about programming. The concept
<that it shouldn't be hard to save a user's input and data is one of the
<driving forces behind this.

>> To correct this, all Bob needed to do was place scripts like -
>>
>> on openCard
>> put EMPTY into Field "Field 1"
>> end openCard
>>
>> This would clear the field each time the card was opened.

>The other way would be to make sure the fields were empty, and then set the
>'cantModify' of the stack to true, and save the stack. The next and
>subsequent times that it opened, the fields would be empty.




From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 21:41:53 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:41:53 -0400
Subject: 3d graphics in RR/MC [again]
In-Reply-To: <20040807231832.59818.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040807231832.59818.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1FCA5478-E8DC-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 7:18 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> Download the stack Rotater Manipulator from:

Thank you. Yes, I always find such simulations impressive and 
interesting. Scott Rossi has another such stack with similar 
attributes.

But I think you would have to admit, that beyond the academic, this 
nature of 3D is of limited practical value, and does not represent the 
beginnings of a potential system, but rather the extent of what is 
currently possible in the environment. While they do instill in me a 
great respect for the authors, I don't find these examples at all 
encouraging. I find them more like road signs which say "Dead End". 
(But very cool code, nonetheless.)

For 3D to be truly viable, there would have to be some assistance 
provided by the operating system and the graphics card. Which, in an 
x-plat scenario points to openGL.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Aug  7 22:02:54 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 19:02:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
In-Reply-To: <008e01c47ce6$f2ce5fb0$0301a8c0@john>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408071902200.10386-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Can't the openCard handler be at the stack level?  (Or, is this an old HC
convention)...

Judy

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Bob Warren wrote:

> Dear Troy and Ken,
>
> As far as I can see, the suggested solution -
>
> on openCard
>     put EMPTY into Field "Field 1"
> end openCard
>
> - is more or less the same as I described in the article
> (http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/article.htm ):
>
> on openCard
>     Set the text of Field1 to ""
> end openCard
>
> What worries me about this solution is that if my program set 99 other
> properties when I test-ran it, would I have to put 99 other statements of
> this type in the openCard handler?


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug  7 22:09:56 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:09:56 -0500
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGECIGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <BD3AF5A4.37C5%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/7/04 5:58 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> remember flash is web based primarily so it's normal it cant do those.

Perhaps, but that was Macromedia's decision to cripple Flash's standalone
capability to that of its browser plugin. Personally I would have given
Flash standalones more capabilities of other app-building programs (like
file I/O, etc.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug  7 22:08:45 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:08:45 -0500
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEECIGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <BD3AF55D.37C3%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/7/04 5:54 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> But it is easy and noticeably shorter and doesn't block RR...
> 
> on doVBS x
>   get shell("start" && x)
> end doVBS
> 
> Although not built in, these are easy to do with the shell type commands.
> Unlike externals, they dont tie up the RR environment (dont have to) and
> there's so many...
> 
>> From there you can also access COM, and DLL objects too probably.
> Check out shellcity.net for a good start at what is available...

Xavier, I'm not saying there aren't workarounds. I do them myself, of
course. But the 'shell("start")' only works if you have a VBS file to begin
with, which must be written out before it can be performed. So it takes
several lines to execute something which should be a one-liner in Rev.

Imagine if you had to create a text file with AppleScript in it and execute
it from shell(). Of course you *could* do it, but it's much easier to use
"do <script> as AppleScript".

And as to COM and DLL, once again, I shouldn't have to hunt around for
command-line apps to call - I should be able to link directly to a DLL and
execute a function that it contains.

My point was not to say that you *couldn't* do these kinds of things in Rev,
but it is not straightforward enough to convince PC people who have done
this forever with single line calls in other development environments.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug  7 22:18:42 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:18:42 -0500
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <EE91A7A1-E8C8-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BD3AF7B2.37C9%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/7/04 6:24 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> Ken....
> 
> What you are saying here is that you want a cross-platform tool that
> still allows you to do very platform-specific code. Or maybe you don't
> care about cross-platform as long as you can use the system-specific
> stuff. Either way, I can tell you from bitter experience that creating
> a tool designed to be xplat and then opening the door to proprietary
> OS-based code is a path to disaster for the tool maker and ultimately
> for developers, particularly inventive users who find themselves
> trapped on a single platform by a bad, poorly understood decision.

Really? What about AppleScript support, the ability to read and write to the
registry in Windows, support for XCMDs in OS 9, etc.? These are all
platform-specific additions to Rev. If Rev *truly* decided to only do what
was possible across platforms, Rev would be a lot more limited than it is
now.

What I'm saying is that there are specific items on specific platforms that
are really important to have. AppleScript on MacOS is one of them. Native
API calls in Windows is another.

> There has *never* been a true xplat development tool of which I am
> aware that successfully used native system calls and opened the native
> system API. That way lies danger, methinks.

Well, you'll have to tell that to Real Software (unless you don't think they
are a true xplat development tool) - see the Declare statement in the
RealBasic help stack. And Toolbook (although it is not xplat, but IS xTalk)
has support for accessing the Windows API.

Look, I'm not trying to bust anyone's chops on this - I'm just trying to say
that to hook Windows developers on Rev, you MUST have SOME ability to access
outside functionality (DLLs, API calls, ActiveX/COM controls, etc.) -
otherwise they won't listen about all the good things that Rev can offer to
development. It's almost like spending hours extolling the virtues of Rev,
only to find out it can't read or write files. That would be a true downer.
It's THAT basic, IMHO.

But perhaps I'm wrong at assuming this is a must-have... there are a number
of Windows developers on this list... too them I ask: am I wrong about this?
Please, be honest...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Aug  7 22:21:34 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:21:34 -0500
Subject: image size and depth
In-Reply-To: <7C555E6C-E87E-11D8-817D-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
References: <2762C4B0-E835-11D8-8247-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<411470E7.1040500@chipp.com> <7C555E6C-E87E-11D8-817D-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <41158E2E.5010605@chipp.com>

Yves,

To my knowledge, you can't set dpi from within REV. But, as dpi is not 
related to image resolution, you can perhaps actually set it in the 
binary data file.

For instance, a 300 pixel x 300 pixel image at 300 dpi would print out a 
1" square.

The same 300 x 300 image at 100 dpi prints a 3" square, though the image 
displays *exactly* the same on the pc screen. So, dpi is a function only 
for printing, and is probably a setting in the header of the image file.

best,

Chipp

Yves COPPE wrote:


> Hi Chipp,
> 
> thank for the stack for resizing
> 
> but, how can I change de dpi, I don't understand your tip : "and you can 
> check the dpi after exporting..."

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug  7 22:22:30 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:22:30 -0500
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <5CEF9DCC-E8C8-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BD3AF896.37CB%kray@sonsothunder.com>

> While I think that's fundamentally true, it's also true that they look
> at total cost of ownership. And the big question that *I* hear when I
> propose to use Revolution to do a project centers on the question of
> long-term maintenance. That question, in turn, has two parts: (1) how
> long will the company (RunRev) be around; and (2) if Dan gets run over
> by a dinosaur, how easy will it be for me to find another Rev
> developer? 

So true, Dan. Those are the two critical questions that always need be
answered.

> I can usually get by the first one by explaining the whole
> engine story but the second has been a show stopper twice. In both
> cases, I simply passed on the contracts because, frankly, I don't want
> to get really good at any more programming languages. I'm getting too
> old. :-D

Hmm. Well, I seem to be able to get by on the second question by mentioning
that I personally know of a handful of seasoned Rev developers and offer to
give them the contact information for those people if it would help them
feel better about using Rev. (Of course I check with those developers first
to make sure it's OK to release that kind of info.)

>> *Here* is where Rev (and other tools of its ilk) *can* make inroads.
>> All
>> that it takes is enough compelling evidence that RunRev isn't going
>> anywhere, that the underlying engine has been around for a decade, and
>> that
>> it is the most efficient way to develop the application/product they
>> want,
>> and it's a much higher chance that said company will allow for a tool
>> like
>> Rev to be used.
> 
> I think you're right that the chances of getting the  small to medium
> sized company to adopt Rev is much higher than that of a corporation.
> But it's still not very high, IMNSHO.

Good question - a lot of it (in my experience) seems to be how knowledgeable
the client contact is. The more they know about programming languages, the
harder it is to convince them.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From warren at howsoft.com  Sat Aug  7 22:36:02 2004
From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 23:36:02 -0300
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
Message-ID: <00e001c47cf3$15e73e70$0301a8c0@john>

Dear List members,

I have just posted the following to Kevin:

What some people are saying on the List at this moment confirms what I
pointed out in my notes: Windows programmers (about 90% of the market?) can
easily be scared away by the MAC dominance of RunRev and its community/
lieutenants. All my notes really called for (technically) was what I have
been used to in VB for many years, a standard which is different (and higher
in some respects) than the MAC-oriented one emanating from RunRev.

One such standard in comparison with VB was the availability of a
Programmer's Transcript/IDE Reference Manual (1) and a Programmer's RunRev
Guide (2), supplied at no extra cost with the IDE in order to form a
complete product (implying that anything less represents an incomplete
product).

Now what I see on the List is a discussion of what can be done with Dan and
his books!

These are my suggestions (bearing in mind of course that I know absolutely
nothing of RunRev's finances, but you do not seem to be doing too badly):

1) This obviously very able author should not be frustrated or (heaven
forbid) be allowed to slip through RunRev's fingers!

2) Pay the man generously to do the crucial job of completing the RunRev
product with the Guide (2 above) in 3 volumes.

I would also like to see this Guide (a) available first in HTML form on the
Internet; (b) available in CHM form (another Windows standard) for free
download, not only by Rev clients but also by Rev PROSPECTIVE clients.

For notes on how to Make the CHM format available to MAC and Unix/Linux
users, please go to http://xchm.sourceforge.net/index.html . It's not
perfectly straightforward, but I am sure your programmers could
work it out.

None of this precludes the practice (later) of making the hard copies
available at extra cost.




From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Aug  7 22:57:16 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 04:57:16 +0200
Subject: Rev 2.2.1 for Linux very impressive !
In-Reply-To: <3657CF28-E8B9-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <25E830C2-E8A9-11D8-9202-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<3657CF28-E8B9-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <A7AEDD38-E8E6-11D8-BDBC-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 7 ao?t 04, ? 23:31, Troy Rollins a ?crit :

>
> On Aug 7, 2004, at 3:36 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>> Just to share that i discovered that Rev 2.2.1 is realy impressive 
>> under Linux x86. Works yet just as expected : i can go head with it 
>> under the linux platform too. Cool, cool, cool ;)
>
> Yes, I have a Linux system up and running and it is really nice, but 
> now I'm wondering - has anyone tried the Linux version of Revolution 
> running under X11 Darwin?

I suppose that the Darwin engine + the Linux distribution stacks are 
eligibles there but didn't test this for my own.
>
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 23:03:18 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 23:03:18 -0400
Subject: Rev 2.2.1 for Linux very impressive !
In-Reply-To: <A7AEDD38-E8E6-11D8-BDBC-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
References: <25E830C2-E8A9-11D8-9202-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<3657CF28-E8B9-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<A7AEDD38-E8E6-11D8-BDBC-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <7F943051-E8E7-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 10:57 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> I suppose that the Darwin engine + the Linux distribution stacks are 
> eligibles there but didn't test this for my own.

I'm running X11 under OSX/Darwin at this point. I plan to do some tests 
with the linux distribution of Rev to see if it is even possible. I'm 
also running Linux under VirtualPC and a on real machine (P3/833 + 512 
megs). Overall I've been really pleased with the Linux version of Rev.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Aug  7 23:06:48 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 22:06:48 -0500
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
	<E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <411598C8.5000208@chipp.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> Chipp.........
> 
> You knew I'd have to chime in here. :-)
> 
> Not simply to be contrarian, but I do not believe RR has any serious 
> chance of making real inroads into other platforms. Period. 

Dan,

Chiming back atcha! Dan, you do make a compelling argument, but I 
suggest 3 components which are in favor of RR's ability to succeed on 
more than 1 platform:

1) It's a new day. With the debacle created by MS of enterprise 
security, I think we'll begin to see a shift to (dare i say;-) Linux on 
the desktop before too long....especially as Longhorn draws near. (Note: 
I just read recently where the number of Linux's on the desktop has 
overcome MacOSX installations.) I believe many a CIO will think 
carefully about the next migration to Longhorn-- as this last migration 
from 2000 to XP has been difficult for many, and Longhorn may have some 
serious configuration issues when released (not to mention the cost). 
Also, many, many enterprises are already transitioning off of MS server 
based solutions to Linux/Uxix due to all the SQL Server targeted 
security risks.

Not to mention all of the alienated VB programmers MS created when it 
dumped VB in favor of .NET. And now they're getting rid of VB all together!

Along with this new day, are plenty of new opportunities. Where is the 
VB for Linux? I'm not suggesting RR take front and center, but if I 
owned the company, I would certainly prepare a strategy focussed on 
Linux within the timeframe of Longhorn launch. Think about it, all you 
really need is a single major player validating the RR platform. A 
strategic partner like IBM can do wonders for this technology. Just 
think about how many copies would sell if IBM invested in RR as the 'VB' 
for cross-platform development...

2) Entrepreneurs are by definition, optimistic. If Kevin only believed 
the value of RR was for the Mac community, then why not simply drop the 
other platforms? It sure would make their job much easier. I really 
think (as do some others like Jerry, Richard and you;-) that RR is good 
enough for serious professional development, and I believe it's adoption 
is mostly a function of marketing & positioning, not technical achievement.

A quick story. At a Palm Springs CEO summit in the 90's, I spent some 
time with Eric Schmidt, the then CTO for Sun (currently CEO for Google) 
who was focussed on evangelizing Java. I mentioned to him we had done a 
technical assessment of Java and found it seriously lacking 
performance-wise. He frankly admitted such, with the caveat that 'as 
long as the perception is managed correctly- it will improve and be 
successful.' He pointed to Window 3.1 as an example of managed 
perception until the technology caught up (Win95). Of course, he was 
correct.

So, in my opinion, all RR needs is the resources to manage the 
perception. It, of course, is much better than Java was at that time.

3) Two words: Market Share.  MacOSX is currently on around 50% of the 
2.7% installed base (1.35%), and creates a very small market opportunity 
for RR. Consider the other 96+%. All one needs is only a 'dent' in this 
market to create a business. Furthermore, one isn't subject to the whims 
of Apple (one day you're their darling, next day their victim a la 
Konfabulator), so it behoves RR to focus on other platforms.

IMO, Any RR investor would do so on the belief of it's strongest virtue: 
cross-platform development. To ignore it, would be irresponsible from a 
business point of view.

Your turn :-)

-Chipp



From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Aug  7 23:16:09 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 22:16:09 -0500
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <B8383C3A-E898-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
	<B8383C3A-E898-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <41159AF9.70402@chipp.com>

Couldn't agree with you more. I think it's a function of HyperCard 
leading the way-- and Apples 'leading-edge' effect. MS is like Dell. You 
rarely see innovation there first, only after someone else has 
'validated' the technology.

Though, I guess, MS is getting better, and one could say their ability 
to rip-off others technology does make better business sense than the 
'not invented here' syndrome from Apple.

(I know, I know, some will say Apple 'stole' the technology from Xerox. 
But overall, Apple's NIH syndrome is legend)

> This could make one believe that in general, Windows based developers 
> have less interest overall in XTalk languages. I think it could be a 
> case of the fact that Mac users don't recognize any correlation between 
> "ease of use" and "lack of power", while Windows users equate "hard and 
> cryptic" with "more powerful." List members excepted, of course.
> -- 
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug  7 23:16:34 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 20:16:34 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <00e001c47cf3$15e73e70$0301a8c0@john>
References: <00e001c47cf3$15e73e70$0301a8c0@john>
Message-ID: <59DEAA34-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Bob....

Thanks for the vote of support!

There is not much chance I will "slip through RunRevs fingers" although 
I will admit to *some* small degree of frustration at the very low 
numbers of people who have bought my first volume in any form. I don't 
think this says anything other than the community may be smaller 
overall than I suspected. (Of course, I refuse to think it's because my 
book isn't good. Though that remains a possibility.)

I reiterate what I said earlier today in this very interesting 
discussion. I do not believe Rev has any serious chance of making 
significant inroads into the professional development community on ANY 
platform, and certainly not on Windows or (moreso?) on *nix. It will 
always be a product aimed at hobbyist and inventive user class 
developers who do not write code for a living but who have real 
problems to solve at work or at home. That's a huge market, bigger, I 
believe, than the programmer market. But it has to be located and 
convinced.

> Now what I see on the List is a discussion of what can be done with 
> Dan and
> his books!
>
> These are my suggestions (bearing in mind of course that I know 
> absolutely
> nothing of RunRev's finances, but you do not seem to be doing too 
> badly):
>
> 1) This obviously very able author should not be frustrated or (heaven
> forbid) be allowed to slip through RunRev's fingers!
>
> 2) Pay the man generously to do the crucial job of completing the 
> RunRev
> product with the Guide (2 above) in 3 volumes.
>


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug  7 23:20:00 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 20:20:00 -0700
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
Message-ID: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

I was chatting with one of my Java buddies this evening about this 
discussion and he pointed out something that is important to keep in 
mind as well.

If small developers want or need to create software for multiple 
platforms, it is crucial that they not be expected to maintain multiple 
code bases to do so. To the extent that the toolset they use supports 
OS-specific features and these features are incorporated, they end up 
with a situation where they have to maintain multiple code bases or, in 
the not-less-unattractive alternative, incorporate lots of 
platform-checking conditional code.

This kind of thing can kill a small developer.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug  7 23:23:42 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 22:23:42 -0500
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <411598C8.5000208@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BD3B06EE.37FF%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/7/04 10:06 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> Not to mention all of the alienated VB programmers MS created when it
> dumped VB in favor of .NET. And now they're getting rid of VB all together!

Really? Could you provide a link where you saw that? Just curious...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug  7 23:30:17 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 22:30:17 -0500
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
In-Reply-To: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BD3B0879.3801%kray@sonsothunder.com>

> If small developers want or need to create software for multiple
> platforms, it is crucial that they not be expected to maintain multiple
> code bases to do so. To the extent that the toolset they use supports
> OS-specific features and these features are incorporated, they end up
> with a situation where they have to maintain multiple code bases or, in
> the not-less-unattractive alternative, incorporate lots of
> platform-checking conditional code.

"Lots" would depend on what they're trying to do. No way would any of us on
this list maintain multiple code bases... at worst we would write a bunch of
platform specific code.

But aren't we doing that anyway? Something simple like calling "shell" needs
a "if the platform is" switch. I think this is part and parcel of what we as
developers do.

> This kind of thing can kill a small developer.

I disagree. Sticking only to code that is inherently cross-platform can kill
a small developer. UNLESS, RunRev were to make changes/add features that
would over time reduce or eliminate the need to call platform-specific code.

I just finished doing an installer in Rev for a client of mine, and you can
bet there was all sorts of platform-specific code in there, like:

  if the platform is "MacOS" then
    if isOSX() then
      put "/applications" into tDir
    else
      put specialFolderPath("apps") into tDir
    end if
  else
    put specialFolderPath(5) into tDir
  end if

Now if RunRev were to extend "specialFolderPath" so that one call could be
made for all platforms, then I wouldn't need a 'platform' switch.

This kind of stuff happens all the time in my neck of the woods...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
 



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug  7 23:31:53 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 20:31:53 -0700
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <411598C8.5000208@chipp.com>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
	<E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<411598C8.5000208@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <7E078899-E8EB-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Chipp.....

You make some good points but they aren't really counters to my 
thoughts. Rather they are sort of orthogonal segues.

I did not mean to say or imply that I wish Rev would simply stop 
supporting other platforms. That would make their program useless to me 
as an OS X developer. What I said -- or intended, at any rate -- was 
that:

(a) Multi-platform support is difficult or impossible to execute while 
allowing for platform/OS-specific functionality;
(b) Windows programmers are less likely to adopt almost ANY non-MS tool 
set (though your point about VB does ring true).
(c) The vast, vast majority of serious professional programmers will 
not take Rev seriously or will be prohibited by any number of factors 
from adopting it in place of current dev technologies.

(BTW, I have not heard anything to indicate MS is *abandoning* VB. 
Where did you hear that?)
On Aug 7, 2004, at 8:06 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> MO, Any RR investor would do so on the belief of it's strongest 
> virtue: cross-platform development. To ignore it, would be 
> irresponsible from a business point of view.
>
We agree completely here.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 23:32:20 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 23:32:20 -0400
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
In-Reply-To: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <8DF2C5CC-E8EB-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 11:20 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> If small developers want or need to create software for multiple 
> platforms, it is crucial that they not be expected to maintain 
> multiple code bases to do so. To the extent that the toolset they use 
> supports OS-specific features and these features are incorporated, 
> they end up with a situation where they have to maintain multiple code 
> bases or, in the not-less-unattractive alternative, incorporate lots 
> of platform-checking conditional code.

Oh exactly. *Some* platform testing stuff is to be expected, but 
generally, it has to be a single code base, stored in a single script 
set, otherwise, it simple doesn't work. Note my original comment on the 
topic...

I wrote :

>> So far as I can see, the only way to develop X-plat using a single 
>> code-base with XCode would be to do so in Java, and I'm not sure I'm 
>> interested in that route.

Personally, I'm doubting my ability to avoid using ALL of the "big 
three" x-plat tools. (Revolution, Director, and RealBasic.) My curse is 
that my projects vary THAT much, and no single one of those tools 
(other than *maybe* RB fully loaded with every available plug in) could 
possibly meet my needs. Unfortunate, because that is expensive in both 
$$ and time - to stay up on everything.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Aug  7 23:39:03 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:39:03 -0600
Subject: MDI challege
In-Reply-To: <1de.26c4524f.2e46269c@aol.com>
References: <1de.26c4524f.2e46269c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7E164C4B-E8EC-11D8-8EE2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 6:35 AM, Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

> I consider a tool cross platform when a tool handles
> the core features of each platform. RR simply does't, look at lack of 
> MDI
> support.

I might be confused.  I probably am confused.

I thought MDI involved child windows in a window workspace.  In that 
case, it is all in one stack and everything is under the developer's 
control.  You don't have to have some special OS interface.  The start 
bar has nothing to do with it.

Or am I thinking of something else.

Dar Scott


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 23:41:11 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 23:41:11 -0400
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
In-Reply-To: <BD3B0879.3801%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD3B0879.3801%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <CAB42167-E8EC-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 11:30 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> I just finished doing an installer in Rev for a client of mine, and 
> you can
> bet there was all sorts of platform-specific code in there, like:
>
>   if the platform is "MacOS" then

My recently finished Rev app has this in no less than 30 handlers, for 
instance.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Aug  7 23:43:10 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 22:43:10 -0500
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <5CEF9DCC-E8C8-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <BD3AB828.379B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<5CEF9DCC-E8C8-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4115A14E.9040700@chipp.com>


Dan Shafer wrote:

>(1) how 
> long will the company (RunRev) be around; and 

Good question. Well, let's see, the engine has been around for 10 years. 
  You know the rest. Besides, how long is VB around for? Currently MS is 
still providing minor tech support, and no bug fixes. So, you need to 
rewrite you program in .NET.

>(2) if Dan gets run over 
> by a dinosaur, how easy will it be for me to find another Rev developer? 
> I can usually get by the first one by explaining the whole engine story 
> but the second has been a show stopper twice. 

Well, this list is a good place to start looking. I've worked on 
projects with you, Dar, Jerry, Monte and collaborated with Richard, Ken 
and Jacque as well (and others). So, there does seem to be an easy way 
to find help. Besides, as you know oh so well, many programmers would 
rather 'rewrite' than 'fix old code' anyway. So, who knows, the next 
incarnation of appX may be in Java, Smalltalk, C++, or RR. And, because 
one can develop in RR so fast, it may still be the cheaper alternative.

best,

Chipp

From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug  7 23:45:35 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 23:45:35 -0400
Subject: MDI challege
In-Reply-To: <7E164C4B-E8EC-11D8-8EE2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <1de.26c4524f.2e46269c@aol.com>
	<7E164C4B-E8EC-11D8-8EE2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <67C4522C-E8ED-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 11:39 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
>> I consider a tool cross platform when a tool handles
>> the core features of each platform. RR simply does't, look at lack of 
>> MDI
>> support.
>
> I might be confused.  I probably am confused.
>
> I thought MDI involved child windows in a window workspace.  In that 
> case, it is all in one stack and everything is under the developer's 
> control.  You don't have to have some special OS interface.  The start 
> bar has nothing to do with it.
>
> Or am I thinking of something else.

Not sure, but that is the same MDI I'm thinking of. I guess(?) the 
issue being thrown here is that multiple stacks cannot share the same 
window. The start bar? I'm not sure where that enters it.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From warren at howsoft.com  Sat Aug  7 23:41:02 2004
From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:41:02 -0300
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
References: <BD3AFE9C.37D4%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <013301c47cfb$1f4026f0$0301a8c0@john>

I don't know whether Ken Ray posted his MARVELLOUS answer to the List, but
in case not, here it is! QED. A ray of light has entered my brain! Well
done, Ray.

There is one remaining question for those of you with experience in both VB
and RunRev. Do you think it would be a good idea to make the "persisting
properties" OPTIONAL as suggested by the penultimate "dream" picture of my
article at http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/article.htm  ?

Many thanks also to all others who have participated in this thread so far.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
KEN RAY'S ANSWER:

> OK. Here's the basic situation, Bob... and just so that we're on the same
> playing field, you should know that I've used VB since VB 3 (although for
> "religious" reasons, I haven't gone to VB.NET yet ;-).
>
> The fact is that a stack *can* contain its own data that has been entered
by
> the user at runtime. This is unlike VB in that forms *never* contain their
> own data from user input; it is always added as static text values or as
> data read from an external source (text file, database, etc.).  In a
sense,
> think of Rev stacks like VB forms except that what can be done by VB in
> design time can be done by Rev in *both* design time AND runtime.
>
> So if you make a text object in VB and set its Text property to a value
> (like "this is a test"). You see it in design time. When you run the form,
> you see it at Runtime as well. However if you change it during runtime and
> then stop running to return to the IDE, it returns to what it was
> preprogrammed for during design time ("this is a test").
>
> One issue here is that Rev doesn't have separate design and runtime
> environments - they are one and the same. So that means that if you change
> data while in pointer mode by adding info via the Properties palette, this
> is the same as if you had the browse tool and clicked in the field itself
> and entered your data. Once you save the stack, it is saved with the text
> you put into it. If you want it saved without data, you need to either
> explicitly clear the data, OR you need to make the decision to *not save
the
> data with the stack*.
>
> And this is not so foreign - if you want to populate Text objects in VB at
> runtime, the data has to come from *somewhere* (INI file, XML file,
> database, etc.). The same is true with Rev. If you make the decision to
keep
> the data outside the stack and read it in at runtime, the stacks
themselves
> can be designed as either "cantModify", or you can just make sure you
never
> execute the "save" command through your scripts or through the Rev IDE.
>
> So one of the answers to question #1 above is "you don't necessarily want
> to". However there *are* times when you might want to keep the data in the
> stack (more below), so another answer is "because it keeps all the data in
> one file and makes it easier to work with the data".
>
> For example, suppose you had a simple Address stack. Fields that have been
> put into a group with backgroundbehavior turned on will show up as being
> empty whenever a new card is created in that stack. So for example,
suppose
> you made fields for name, address, etc. with no text in them, grouped them
> and set the background behavior to true. You then use the browse tool to
> enter data in the fields. Now when you create a new card (either by script
> or via the menu item in the IDE), you go to the next card automatically,
and
> the fields are empty.
>
> Note that I said they are *empty* and not that they are *emptied*, they
are
> naturally empty since Rev makes a distinction between the field object and
> the text it contains. For fields that are not in a background group, the
> text and the field object both reside on the card. For fields that *are*
in
> the background group, the text stays on the card, and the fields stay
empty
> in the background group. So when you create a new card, the background
> fields display in their *natural* state - empty and waiting for someone to
> put text into them.
>
> So in *this* kind of instance, you might want to keep the data in the
stack
> and save the stack to disk to keep the data saved.
>
> Rev gives you the choice - you can save data with the stack or not,
> depending on what you are developing and what best adapts to the situation
> at hand.
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
>
>



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat Aug  7 23:53:53 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 20:53:53 -0700
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <BD3AF7B2.37C9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD3AF7B2.37C9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <90EEDCFE-E8EE-11D8-BBEA-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 7, 2004, at 7:18 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
> Well, you'll have to tell that to Real Software (unless you don't 
> think they
> are a true xplat development tool) - see the Declare statement in the
> RealBasic help stack. And Toolbook (although it is not xplat, but IS 
> xTalk)
> has support for accessing the Windows API.
>
> Look, I'm not trying to bust anyone's chops on this - I'm just trying 
> to say
> that to hook Windows developers on Rev, you MUST have SOME ability to 
> access
> outside functionality (DLLs, API calls, ActiveX/COM controls, etc.) -
> otherwise they won't listen about all the good things that Rev can 
> offer to
> development. It's almost like spending hours extolling the virtues of 
> Rev,
> only to find out it can't read or write files. That would be a true 
> downer.
> It's THAT basic, IMHO.
>
> But perhaps I'm wrong at assuming this is a must-have... there are a 
> number
> of Windows developers on this list... too them I ask: am I wrong about 
> this?
> Please, be honest...

I agree with Ken on this.  I would like to see support for calling Win 
APIs, DLLs and ActiveX.  Even though one of the major features of Rev 
is the ability to develop for multiple platforms there are jobs where 
catering to a specific platform is required.

All software that my company creates and sells ourselves is built 
cross-platform but thus far my clients/potential clients have had 
Windows only needs and they want the app we create to integrate with 
Windows technologies.  In these cases I would use Rev not because it 
runs cross-platform but because of the ability to quickly develop 
applications.  When I have to have an external made in order to access 
APIs or get access to common Windows functionality then it adds cost 
and slows down development.  I've ditched all the other tools I used to 
use for desktop apps and decided to use only Rev so if the increase in 
time/money needed to interact with Windows is too great then I would 
have to turn down the job.

Two examples from my experiences where this support would be useful.

1 - I've shared this before I think but I have a project where the app 
I wrote was one in a suite of products that runs on Windows only.  In 
order to access the help files for the suite I had to use a Windows API 
call.  I had to use an external and add another file to the download in 
order to accomplish it.  Being able to calls the Windows API would 
avoid this.

2 - An example of where ActiveX would be useful is in dealing with 
media on Windows.  I am dealing with a project now where I would love 
to be able to use Real Media/Windows Media (SWF too but that can be 
handled by QT which the software uses already) on the Windows side of 
the project because potential customers will have files in this format 
and possibly want to use them in the app.  If I had ActiveX support 
this would be possible and allow the Windows users to work with files 
they are accustomed to working with.  Right now I would have to tell 
them to convert to QuickTime.

I realize that with a cross-platform dev tool it is important to have 
things work correctly across all platforms but I believe there are 
cases where you need to enable access to core OS dependent 
technologies.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Aug  7 23:57:55 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 22:57:55 -0500
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <BD3B06EE.37FF%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD3B06EE.37FF%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <4115A4C3.1090609@chipp.com>

Hi Ken,

I take both InfoWorld and EWeek. Both have had multiple articles about 
the 'disenfranchisment' (is that a word?) of VB developers with .NET

And you know the last version of VB before .NET will no soon no longer 
be supported.

The latest I've heard from Chris, who stays on top of this stuff, is 
that to use the more advanced features in .NET, you'll have to use C#.

-Chipp

Ken Ray wrote:


> Really? Could you provide a link where you saw that? Just curious...


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug  8 00:04:14 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 23:04:14 -0500
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
In-Reply-To: <013301c47cfb$1f4026f0$0301a8c0@john>
Message-ID: <BD3B106E.380F%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/7/04 10:41 PM, "Bob Warren" <warren at howsoft.com> wrote:

> I don't know whether Ken Ray posted his MARVELLOUS answer to the List, but
> in case not, here it is! QED. A ray of light has entered my brain! Well
> done, Ray.

Thank you... and I did indeed forget to post this to the list. Thanks for
doing so.

> There is one remaining question for those of you with experience in both VB
> and RunRev. Do you think it would be a good idea to make the "persisting
> properties" OPTIONAL as suggested by the penultimate "dream" picture of my
> article at http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/article.htm  ?

I think in order to do that we'd need to be able to know the difference
between the two states - design vs. run time. And right now, that's not
something one can easily figure out since Rev is really always at runtime.

One thing we *could* do might be do separate stack vs. standalone - i.e.
that when a stack is turned into a standalone, certain properties, text,
etc. is removed. Or we might be able to create an object-level property that
is like cantModify, but on an object-specific level.

However I think it would be a "hack" (if you'll excuse the word). Until and
unless Rev gets a true "design mode", any attempts at simulating a design
vs. run environment would be a kludge at best, IMHO.

I think it may be more important to focus on providing materials that will
allow VB (and other) programmers to make the mental shift to the Rev
paradigm.

But that's just one man's opinion...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug  8 00:07:29 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 23:07:29 -0500
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <4115A4C3.1090609@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BD3B1131.3811%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/7/04 10:57 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> I take both InfoWorld and EWeek. Both have had multiple articles about
> the 'disenfranchisment' (is that a word?) of VB developers with .NET

This is more I think about VB developers not wanting to go to .NET because
it represents a major paradigm shift for them. (BTW: I'm one of them. ;-)

> And you know the last version of VB before .NET will soon no longer
> be supported.

Well, I know that Microsoft at some point will stop supporting VB 6 and only
support VB.NET.
 
> The latest I've heard from Chris, who stays on top of this stuff, is
> that to use the more advanced features in .NET, you'll have to use C#.

Well that's true. Although it seems that a number of people still think
VB.NET will be supported in Longhorn, although that will probably strand us
VB 6 developers if they don't allow for support of VB 6 apps in Longhorn.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Aug  8 00:18:00 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:18:00 -0400
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <20040808030427.662009300E2@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040808030427.662009300E2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EF5B58BB-E8F1-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

On Aug 7, 2004, at 11:04 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> From: Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com>
> Subject: Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <2E9DC2B0-E8C9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6 at danshafer.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> And therein lies the rub.
>
> I believe it is literally impossible to create an xplat dev tool that
> lets the developer call native system APIs. As an OS X guy, I would
> much rather find xplat ways of accomplishing things that would
> otherwise cause me to have to learn and deal with an underlying OS.
>

I'm on a 56K modem and haven't caught up with all of the previous 
discussion, but I couldn't pass up responding to this one:

1. It is not only possible, but actually not all that hard, to create 
hooks to native platform APIs on a cross-platform tool.  Java does it 
with JNI.  Microsoft did it with their version of JNI  (RNI?) that Sun 
had such a stink about and sued them over.  RealBasic does it.  What's 
to stop RunRev doing it?  Once you decide how to pass parameters, the 
rest is easy.

2. Neither adding hooks for native platform APIs,  nor adding an 
alternate C-like syntax (as Director did) would cause the sky to fall.  
In fact both of these things would both make RunRev vastly more 
accessible and to, and usable by, the overwhelming majority of 
developers writing software today.

-- Frank Leahy

Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  8 00:34:03 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:34:03 -0400
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <EF5B58BB-E8F1-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <20040808030427.662009300E2@mail.runrev.com>
	<EF5B58BB-E8F1-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <2CE79B2E-E8F4-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 12:18 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> 1. It is not only possible, but actually not all that hard, to create 
> hooks to native platform APIs on a cross-platform tool.  Java does it 
> with JNI.  Microsoft did it with their version of JNI  (RNI?) that Sun 
> had such a stink about and sued them over.  RealBasic does it.  What's 
> to stop RunRev doing it?  Once you decide how to pass parameters, the 
> rest is easy.
>
> 2. Neither adding hooks for native platform APIs,  nor adding an 
> alternate C-like syntax (as Director did) would cause the sky to fall. 
>  In fact both of these things would both make RunRev vastly more 
> accessible and to, and usable by, the overwhelming majority of 
> developers writing software today.

Agreed on both points. I think at the very least, Rev should support 
ActiveX controls... and as we all know, I'm a Mac guy. ActiveX is just 
too important to ignore.

And, personally, while I find Transcript amazingly powerful, I'll 
*never* actually like it as a language. Dot syntax is just as 
efficient, and clear as "writing it out longhand."

Still, even with Transcript Rev wins all of my productivity awards... 
AS LONG AS IT IS CAPABLE OF DOING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. The big killer 
with Rev is that while the ceiling is incredibly high, you can 
eventually hit it, and you have no options other than using an 
alternate tool to overcome them. There is no vast archive of externals, 
for free, or at any cost... unless you are willing to not only finance 
one, but wait for its development, and do the general design as well - 
and that is presuming you can find someone who is qualified and 
available to do it for you.

Basically, IF Rev can already do everything you need in your project, 
you are golden. In many if not most cases, this is probably the case. 
But if not, you need a different tool, because it doesn't easily extend 
beyond its limits.

ActiveX and similar hooks may relax the need for custom externals on 
many types of projects.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Aug  8 00:34:56 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:34:56 -0400
Subject: Is being a good cross-platform tool good enough? [was Re: Is Rev
	too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <20040807231554.89CDE9300D9@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040807231554.89CDE9300D9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4D00088D-E8F4-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

On Aug 7, 2004, at 7:15 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> From: Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net>
> Subject: Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <2C070D22-E8B9-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8 at rpsystems.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Aug 7, 2004, at 5:25 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>
>> Here's a couple of goodies:
>>
>> 1) Inability to use ActiveX or COM controls (although with Chipp's
>> altBrowser you can use them in a web browser, but that's different).
>
> I know Director can use ActiveX, what other x-plat tools can? Does
> RealBasic?
>>
>> 3) Inability to call "normal" (i.e. not developed specifically for 
>> Rev)
>> DLLs.
>
> Which x-plat development tools can do this?
>

The problem with these types of question -- "but aren't we as good as 
the other cross-platform tools?" -- is that most developers aren't 
asking whether other *cross-platform development* tools can do these 
things, they're asking whether *development* tools can do these things 
(because most developers don't really care about cross-platform 
development.)

With native API support, the ability to call native libraries (dlls, 
etc.), and the addition of a more widely-used syntax, RunRev could give 
the best single-platform tools a run for their money.  But as long as 
RunRev continues to make decisions based on its being just another 
cross-platform tool, then they will miss out on being the best tool, 
regardless of platform.

Just my 2p...

-- Frank Leahy

Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Aug  8 00:36:53 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:36:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <59DEAA34-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408072126160.11795-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I agree, Dan...

Unfortuantely, for the win market, it seems to be a chicken and the egg
sort of thing: universities will only teach the MS stuff they are given
because (a) it's free (or all but) and (b) 'it's what everybody uses in
industry'.  It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I remember when Code Warrior offered their stuff to my CS department for
FREE ... ZIP... NADA... NICHTS... NUTTIN'... and we didn't take it.
Instead, we paid for Borland and Microsoft stuff.  And still do.  And when
all our students graduate and find themselves in positions where they'll
do the hiring, what do you think they will be looking for?

Rev has accolades from the Mac side of things because, well,  they have
them.  If  you've got it, flaunt it. PC magazine could give them an award
if they so chose... I'd like not to see the case of the list advocating
that the company bite the hand that feeds it.

With the exception of speech on Windows not working, most calls to
'improve' Rev (with the respect of being overly Mac-ish) seem to be along
the lines of 'make it like every Windows and traditional systems
programming language'.

But there already are plenty of those, existing and in the ash heap.

I suspect Dan's right that Rev will never replace Java, C++, anything
.NETish...  but why does that need to be the goal?

Judy

 On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Dan Shafer wrote:

>
> I reiterate what I said earlier today in this very interesting
> discussion. I do not believe Rev has any serious chance of making
> significant inroads into the professional development community on ANY
> platform, and certainly not on Windows or (moreso?) on *nix. It will
> always be a product aimed at hobbyist and inventive user class
> developers who do not write code for a living but who have real
> problems to solve at work or at home. That's a huge market, bigger, I
> believe, than the programmer market. But it has to be located and
> convinced.
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Aug  8 00:37:02 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 22:37:02 -0600
Subject: image size and depth
In-Reply-To: <41158E2E.5010605@chipp.com>
References: <2762C4B0-E835-11D8-8247-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<411470E7.1040500@chipp.com> <7C555E6C-E87E-11D8-817D-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<41158E2E.5010605@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <97BFE5C0-E8F4-11D8-8EE2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 8:21 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> To my knowledge, you can't set dpi from within REV. But, as dpi is not 
> related to image resolution, you can perhaps actually set it in the 
> binary data file.

This handler might do what you suggest.  It is completely untested, but 
might give an idea of what should be done.

on setJPEGdpi @jpeg, dpi  -- dpi less than 256
   put numToChar(1) into units -- dots per inch
   put numToChar(0) & numToChar(dpi) into encodedDPI
   get units & encodedDPI & encodedDPI
   put it into char 13 to 17 of jpeg
end setJPEGdpi

Dar Scott




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Aug  8 00:41:21 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:41:21 -0700
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <EF5B58BB-E8F1-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <20040808030427.662009300E2@mail.runrev.com>
	<EF5B58BB-E8F1-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <327B1566-E8F5-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, Frank.
On Aug 7, 2004, at 9:18 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> On Aug 7, 2004, at 11:04 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
> wrote:
>
>> From: Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com>
>> Subject: Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
>> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Message-ID: <2E9DC2B0-E8C9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6 at danshafer.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>
>> And therein lies the rub.
>>
>> I believe it is literally impossible to create an xplat dev tool that
>> lets the developer call native system APIs. As an OS X guy, I would
>> much rather find xplat ways of accomplishing things that would
>> otherwise cause me to have to learn and deal with an underlying OS.
>>
>
> I'm on a 56K modem and haven't caught up with all of the previous 
> discussion, but I couldn't pass up responding to this one:
>
> 1. It is not only possible, but actually not all that hard, to create 
> hooks to native platform APIs on a cross-platform tool.  Java does it 
> with JNI.  Microsoft did it with their version of JNI  (RNI?) that Sun 
> had such a stink about and sued them over.  RealBasic does it.  What's 
> to stop RunRev doing it?  Once you decide how to pass parameters, the 
> rest is easy.
>
Java's xplat support  is, from all accounts and limited personal 
experience, a nightmare and a joke. Microsoft NEVER produced an xplat 
tool that supported the Mac as far as I know. Although RB lays some 
claim to doing xplat stuff right, from what I gather lurking on their 
message boards and reading developer web pages, it's not all it's 
cracked up to be.

I can't comment on the ease of doing it, just observe that it's been 
tried a lot and never, as far as I know, successfully. My deepest 
experience was with Smalltalk, which certainly didn't do it but came 
closer than anything else I've seen.

> 2. Neither adding hooks for native platform APIs,  nor adding an 
> alternate C-like syntax (as Director did) would cause the sky to fall. 
>  In fact both of these things would both make RunRev vastly more 
> accessible and to, and usable by, the overwhelming majority of 
> developers writing software today.
>
Which begs my point: I do not believe that RR has ANY shot at 
converting professional Windows developers. Period. Doesn't matter what 
they do.

> -- Frank Leahy
>
> Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
> See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kee at kagi.com  Sun Aug  8 00:51:18 2004
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:51:18 -0700
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <5CEF9DCC-E8C8-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <BD3AB828.379B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<5CEF9DCC-E8C8-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <96300A7C-E8F6-11D8-A59A-000A959B2940@kagi.com>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 4:20 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
> (2) if Dan gets run over by a dinosaur, how easy will it be for me to 
> find another Rev developer?

I agree that this is a stumbling block. Seems to me that a good way to 
deal with this is to have RunRev develop a code escrow replacement 
programmer kind of service where the source for a build goes onto a 
RunRev maintained server with access detailed in the splash screen of 
the app.

Dan gets squished by a dinosaur. I launch Dan's app and in the splash 
screen see instructions for how to gain access to the source used to 
build this version. Perhaps there is some unique file ID and the name 
and address of the person in the company who has the password needed to 
unlock the source code (a document that the RunRev site generated when 
I uploaded the code that was designed specifically to be given to the 
person in the company).

I get the password from that corporate person and I go to the RunRev 
site specified on the splash screen and fill in all the data requested. 
RunRev checks that data against what Dan entered originally and if all 
looks well, someone from RunRev does the final confirmation (phone call 
or fax exchange or perhaps emails) for a nominal fee (say 100 EUR). If 
that looks good, RunRev provides the source to the client and hooks 
them up with someone they know can handle the job. Think of it as 
insurance that costs nothing to buy but when you need to use it, there 
is a fee.

Seems to me RunRev could set up a system that goes a long way towards 
negating the fear of Dan being crushed by a dinosaur and in doing so, 
expand the acceptance of Revolution.

Just a thought.

kee nethery


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  8 00:51:24 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:51:24 -0400
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <327B1566-E8F5-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <20040808030427.662009300E2@mail.runrev.com>
	<EF5B58BB-E8F1-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<327B1566-E8F5-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <999BCC51-E8F6-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 12:41 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

>
>> 2. Neither adding hooks for native platform APIs,  nor adding an 
>> alternate C-like syntax (as Director did) would cause the sky to 
>> fall.  In fact both of these things would both make RunRev vastly 
>> more accessible and to, and usable by, the overwhelming majority of 
>> developers writing software today.
>>
> Which begs my point: I do not believe that RR has ANY shot at 
> converting professional Windows developers. Period. Doesn't matter 
> what they do.

I agree with that too. RR is simply not going to make significant 
inroads in that market.

I just want those things for me and the rest of us who want the ability 
to make powerful Windows applications from our Macs.  ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From warren at howsoft.com  Sun Aug  8 01:16:37 2004
From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 02:16:37 -0300
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
Message-ID: <01d801c47d07$7da78470$0301a8c0@john>

Dan -

I have given training in the computer field since the 1960s (even in
Scotland!), and from what I can see and judge, the difficulty with your book
sales probably has nothing to do with their quality. Leaving diagnoses
aside, there is no doubt in my mind that since a Programmer's Guide is
urgently needed to accompany the RunRev product, your book would serve very
well. Being distributed as a normal part of the product would help to make
it better known and would also express Rev's confidence in it. Thus, being
"forced" to become familiar with it and consequently like it, there would be
a greater number of users who would then be prepared to make an investment
in buying the hard-cover form, particularly those who are not comfortable
with electronic documents (quite a lot of people). Of course, all of this is
in Rev's hands....We can but hope.

Regards,
Bob W.

> Bob....

> Thanks for the vote of support!

> There is not much chance I will "slip through RunRevs fingers" although
> I will admit to *some* small degree of frustration at the very low
> numbers of people who have bought my first volume in any form. I don't
> think this says anything other than the community may be smaller
> overall than I suspected. (Of course, I refuse to think it's because my
> book isn't good. Though that remains a possibility.)

> I reiterate what I said earlier today in this very interesting
> discussion. I do not believe Rev has any serious chance of making
> significant inroads into the professional development community on ANY
> platform, and certainly not on Windows or (moreso?) on *nix. It will
> always be a product aimed at hobbyist and inventive user class
> developers who do not write code for a living but who have real
> problems to solve at work or at home. That's a huge market, bigger, I
> believe, than the programmer market. But it has to be located and
> convinced.

> > Now what I see on the List is a discussion of what can be done with
> > Dan and
> > his books!
> >
> > These are my suggestions (bearing in mind of course that I know
> > absolutely
> > nothing of RunRev's finances, but you do not seem to be doing too
> > badly):
> >
> > 1) This obviously very able author should not be frustrated or (heaven
> > forbid) be allowed to slip through RunRev's fingers!
> >
> > 2) Pay the man generously to do the crucial job of completing the
> > RunRev
> > product with the Guide (2 above) in 3 volumes.
> >


> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
> Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
> Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)





From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Aug  8 01:50:45 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 07:50:45 +0200
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <BD3AF55D.37C3%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCECPGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

> On 8/7/04 5:54 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
>
> > But it is easy and noticeably shorter and doesn't block RR...
> >
> > on doVBS x
> >   get shell("start" && x)
> > end doVBS
> >
> > Although not built in, these are easy to do with the shell type
> commands.
> > Unlike externals, they dont tie up the RR environment (dont have to) and
> > there's so many...
> >
> >> From there you can also access COM, and DLL objects too probably.
> > Check out shellcity.net for a good start at what is available...
>
> Xavier, I'm not saying there aren't workarounds. I do them myself, of
> course. But the 'shell("start")' only works if you have a VBS
> file to begin
> with, which must be written out before it can be performed. So it takes
> several lines to execute something which should be a one-liner in Rev.

True but once you have this written with wrappers it becomes more
transcript like. I haven't tried executing vbs directly in the
shell function but there must be a way. What I dont like about that is
that since there is no threading in RR, RR is stuck until your shell
code finishes running - IOW, if your shell is blocked, RR is blocked!

In a server situation, I needed to have a second RR made exe check if the
logs change and kill the process if it got stuck and relaunch it. So,
yes, this is a big shortcoming after all.

> Imagine if you had to create a text file with AppleScript in it
> and execute
> it from shell(). Of course you *could* do it, but it's much easier to use
> "do <script> as AppleScript".

Doesn't Applescript also block RR? In HC, I resorted to applets to do the
AS.

> And as to COM and DLL, once again, I shouldn't have to hunt around for
> command-line apps to call - I should be able to link directly to a DLL and
> execute a function that it contains.

I asked this one to our guru and he wasn't saying it would be easy. Rather
that you'd have to compile a different external for any DLL function kind
of in brief...

> My point was not to say that you *couldn't* do these kinds of
> things in Rev,
> but it is not straightforward enough to convince PC people who have done
> this forever with single line calls in other development environments.

Surely if there is a need, RR will look into it. Shall we make a bugzilla
request? ;) I'll vote on it...


From warren at howsoft.com  Sun Aug  8 01:44:53 2004
From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 02:44:53 -0300
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
Message-ID: <01ef01c47d0a$e74350f0$0301a8c0@john>

Ray:

There was an implicit "hack" in the penultimate image of my article.

When the option is selected:
1. On selecting the Browse Tool (Run scripts and interact), save the
stack to the HD temporarily.
2. On selecting the Pointer Tool (edit), substitute the modified stack with
the temp stack.

Things are easy to say, but more difficult to do. Do you think that
something along these lines would be viable?

Bob

**************************************
> > There is one remaining question for those of you with experience in both
VB
> > and RunRev. Do you think it would be a good idea to make the "persisting
> > properties" OPTIONAL as suggested by the penultimate "dream" picture of
my
> > article at http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/article.htm  ?

> I think in order to do that we'd need to be able to know the difference
> between the two states - design vs. run time. And right now, that's not
> something one can easily figure out since Rev is really always at runtime.

> One thing we *could* do might be do separate stack vs. standalone - i.e.
> that when a stack is turned into a standalone, certain properties, text,
> etc. is removed. Or we might be able to create an object-level property
that
> is like cantModify, but on an object-specific level.

> However I think it would be a "hack" (if you'll excuse the word). Until
and
> unless Rev gets a true "design mode", any attempts at simulating a design
> vs. run environment would be a kludge at best, IMHO.

> I think it may be more important to focus on providing materials that will
> allow VB (and other) programmers to make the mental shift to the Rev
> paradigm.

> But that's just one man's opinion...

> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Aug  8 02:00:51 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 08:00:51 +0200
Subject: image size and depth
In-Reply-To: <41158E2E.5010605@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGECPGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Intersting thought:

If you resize an image in RR, you only get a reduced image.
It would be nice to have a resolution dependent choice for
those in publishing...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Chipp
> Walters
> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 04:22
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: image size and depth
> 
> 
> Yves,
> 
> To my knowledge, you can't set dpi from within REV. But, as dpi is not 
> related to image resolution, you can perhaps actually set it in the 
> binary data file.
> 
> For instance, a 300 pixel x 300 pixel image at 300 dpi would print out a 
> 1" square.
> 
> The same 300 x 300 image at 100 dpi prints a 3" square, though the image 
> displays *exactly* the same on the pc screen. So, dpi is a function only 
> for printing, and is probably a setting in the header of the image file.
> 
> best,
> 
> Chipp
> 
> Yves COPPE wrote:
> 
> 
> > Hi Chipp,
> > 
> > thank for the stack for resizing
> > 
> > but, how can I change de dpi, I don't understand your tip : 
> "and you can 
> > check the dpi after exporting..."
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Aug  8 01:55:49 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 00:55:49 -0500
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <2CE79B2E-E8F4-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <20040808030427.662009300E2@mail.runrev.com>
	<EF5B58BB-E8F1-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<2CE79B2E-E8F4-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <4115C065.7040308@chipp.com>

Troy et al..

> Agreed on both points. I think at the very least, Rev should support 
> ActiveX controls... 

Do you have an idea on how you will use these? I know....PDF and Flash. 
But others? (fact is, PDF and Flash can be already used within 
altBrowser, though albeit there are some functional issues.)

The reason I ask, is Chris (my C programming partner and co-author of 
altBrowser PC (Mac in beta as we speak)) tells me adding activeX is 
fairly straightforward, and could be done as an external--but I as a PC 
developer don't know of any good reason to add it.

Perhaps if others can point to a compelling use, we would consider 
rolling an ActiveX external.

BTW, does Director and Flash support ActiveX? Just wondering. If they 
do, I wonder at what level they support it. For instance, do you want to 
support adding an ActiveX Tree control? If so, how does one 'interface' 
with it in Director or Flash.

best,

Chipp

From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sun Aug  8 01:58:19 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 07:58:19 +0200
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <F2AA39B6-E8FF-11D8-ADBD-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 07.08.2004, at 08:15, Chipp Walters wrote:
> Also, we can easily see where HyperCard, SuperCard and other 
> 'Mac-centric' authoring environments have ended up. I think it's 
> eventually in RR's best interest to focus on other platforms, else the 
> find themselves in the same situation as the other lanquished Mac 
> Xtalk authoring environments. And remember, both Flash and Director 
> found some success on PC's, and originally shipped with an Xtalk 
> language.

And the Mouse father said to his son. Paint yourself as a Lion, kill 
his kids than you will become the next prince of Africa!!

There are at least 10 Mac centric authoring environments. If  the mAc 
has 5% and WIN 95% marketshare, than there must be about 200 WIN 
centric authoring environments i the market, which have survived the 
dominance of M$?s VB  and .net.
Give me only 30...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speadlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Aug  8 02:10:58 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 08:10:58 +0200
Subject: Localizer (was RE: Localizer - Transcriptlator - opinion request)
In-Reply-To: <1574739074.20040807150837@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOECPGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Seems the localizer will be jut a localizer then...

Thanks Mark. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Mark Wieder
> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 00:09
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Localizer - Transcriptlator - opinion request
> 
> 
> MisterX-
> 
> Friday, August 6, 2004, 10:44:02 PM, you wrote:
> 
> M> The last piece I added to this stack is a parser that finds
> M> all your local assignments and puts them into the script if
> M> missing. This script also recognizes also the locals assigned 
> 
> We're obviously thinking along the same lines here. I've just been
> finishing off and getting ready to publish my Stack Analyzer that has
> this as one of its tasks (also namespace conflicts, unquoted string
> literals, etc).
> 
> M> So the question is whether this last script should be made
> M> available separately in a stack from the other translators?
> 
> My feeling is that this is a separate feature from cross-language
> translation. They're obviously related issues, but there are some
> things that are rev-specific, or are at least frowned on in other
> languages, and that therefore seem to be out of the realm of
> translation itself. I'm in particular thinking of the strong typing
> present in C and java, and to a lesser extent in basic.
> 
> BTW - if you start a new thread with a real subject line instead of
> replying to the middle of an existing one there's more of a chance it
> will be seen. I missed your original message the first time through
> because it was buried in a thread that I was ignoring.
> 
> -- 
>  -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug  8 02:04:53 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 01:04:53 -0500
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
In-Reply-To: <01ef01c47d0a$e74350f0$0301a8c0@john>
Message-ID: <BD3B2CB5.3828%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/8/04 12:44 AM, "Bob Warren" <warren at howsoft.com> wrote:

> Ray:

(uh, it's "Ken"... "Ray" is my last name - no harm done...)

> There was an implicit "hack" in the penultimate image of my article.
> 
> When the option is selected:
> 1. On selecting the Browse Tool (Run scripts and interact), save the
> stack to the HD temporarily.
> 2. On selecting the Pointer Tool (edit), substitute the modified stack with
> the temp stack.
> 
> Things are easy to say, but more difficult to do. Do you think that
> something along these lines would be viable?

Not to throw water on your suggestion, but no, I don't think it would be
viable (at least not as a permanent change to Rev), and here's the reason...
the substituting of a stack with another stack would be disconcerting (to
say the least) to experienced Rev developers. The reason is that they (and
I) are too used to just being able to switch to browse tool to try something
out. We are *empowered* by the single mode, rather than hampered.

Now this is not to say that one couldn't create a plugin that might do as
you suggest to help aid VB, etc. programmers into understanding Rev, but I
think IMHO that it would be more of a crutch than help. I mean if someone
knowledgeable with Rev sat down with you for a couple of hours or so at the
beginning of your explorations of Rev, and explained the paradigm shift and
how to take advantage of it, you probably would have a better overall
understanding and you would continue to learn to use Rev the way Rev was
intended to be used.

I place the responsibility at the beginning of the excursion - meaning there
isn't a good "Getting Started" guide that one is either directed to or is
provided in printed form along with the software to help in this transition.

But that's just my 2 cents,


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  8 02:06:52 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 02:06:52 -0400
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <4115C065.7040308@chipp.com>
References: <20040808030427.662009300E2@mail.runrev.com>
	<EF5B58BB-E8F1-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<2CE79B2E-E8F4-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<4115C065.7040308@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <246DD882-E901-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 1:55 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Do you have an idea on how you will use these? I know....PDF and 
> Flash. But others? (fact is, PDF and Flash can be already used within 
> altBrowser, though albeit there are some functional issues.)

There are so many...

> BTW, does Director and Flash support ActiveX? Just wondering. If they 
> do, I wonder at what level they support it. For instance, do you want 
> to support adding an ActiveX Tree control? If so, how does one 
> 'interface' with it in Director or Flash.

Flash, no. Flash is a plug-in turned authoring environment.

Director, yes. Director allows selection of an ActiveX control from the 
file system, and presents a properties panel to perform settings, etc. 
read from the control itself. Control specific parameters can be 
entered, changed, and viewed. After that, it is primarily through 
script. RealBasic handles ActiveX almost identically to Director's 
approach.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Aug  8 02:10:21 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 01:10:21 -0500
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <59DEAA34-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <00e001c47cf3$15e73e70$0301a8c0@john>
	<59DEAA34-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4115C3CD.4000601@chipp.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:


> I reiterate what I said earlier today in this very interesting 
> discussion. I do not believe Rev has any serious chance of making 
> significant inroads into the professional development community on ANY 
> platform, and certainly not on Windows or (moreso?) on *nix. It will 
> always be a product aimed at hobbyist and inventive user class 
> developers who do not write code for a living but who have real problems 
> to solve at work or at home.

Depends on what you mean by 'significant inroads.' If it means making 
enough to provide a return to shareholders and keep the product alive 
and well, then I beg to disagree. If it means competing head to head 
with MS products then I agree. As you rightly pointed out earlier, even 
Borland can't compete w/ MS, but does that make them unsuccessful?

One thing I do think should be made clear though: RR is a PROFESSIONAL 
LEVEL DEVELOPMENT TOOL. There are those of us (including you) who make a 
living writing professional code using RR. I only mention this so others 
(perhaps undecided) who read this thread will know that professional 
level products have been created with this product.

best,

Chipp

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug  8 02:11:04 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 01:11:04 -0500
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <4115C065.7040308@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BD3B2E28.382C%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/8/04 12:55 AM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> Troy et al..
> 
>> Agreed on both points. I think at the very least, Rev should support
>> ActiveX controls...
> 
> Do you have an idea on how you will use these? I know....PDF and Flash.
> But others? (fact is, PDF and Flash can be already used within
> altBrowser, though albeit there are some functional issues.)

Personally I'd want access to other control types - trees, data grids,
panes, splitters, date/time pickers, charting controls, etc., plus the
ability to use other ActiveX controls that would act as drivers to other
hardware/software.

> BTW, does Director and Flash support ActiveX? Just wondering.

Troy answered this one. :-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Aug  8 02:18:33 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 01:18:33 -0500
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <90EEDCFE-E8EE-11D8-BBEA-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BD3AF7B2.37C9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<90EEDCFE-E8EE-11D8-BBEA-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <4115C5B9.60201@chipp.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:


> I agree with Ken on this.  I would like to see support for calling Win 
> APIs, DLLs and ActiveX.  Even though one of the major features of Rev is 
> the ability to develop for multiple platforms there are jobs where 
> catering to a specific platform is required.


Trevor,

Unlike most of us on this list, you are already an accomplished C 
programmer. In fact, you have successfully written a couple VERY NICE 
externals for RR!

Now, I wonder, how many others on this list would take the time to learn 
the correct C interfaces to the WinAPI (I'm sure Ken would!). As feature 
requests are made, the RR team has to factor how many users would 
benefit from them.

Also, as you recall at the Rev Summit in CA, Chris Bohnert demonstrated 
how easy it is to create an external for RR. One which can call a 
Win32API if needed. So, it seems to me, an interim step would be a 
really good primer for creating externals for RR. 'Cause even with a 
WinAPI interface embedded in the language, users will still need to 
learn a lot to be able to use it.

best,

Chipp

From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sun Aug  8 02:23:59 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 08:23:59 +0200
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
	<E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <88BC2142-E903-11D8-ADBD-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 07.08.2004, at 19:19, Dan Shafer wrote:

> At the end of the day, RR has to find niches where cross-platform 
> development is important or even critical. Those niches exist. But 
> they are not mainstream programmers on either platform (and certainly 
> not on *nix, whose developers seem to prefer Open Source tools). To 
> delude itself into thinking it will *ever* make significant inroads 
> into any traditional programming market would, I think, be the end of 
> RR. I think they should focus exclusively on  the folks I call 
> Inventive Users who are not full-time professional coders, who can 
> make a tool switch without a huge technical or social cost, and who 
> are at least interested in if not motivated by the possibility of 
> cross-platform development.
GREAT Analysis Dan! (like that from Troy)

> As it happens, I think that audience is at least 10 times as large as 
> the professional programming audience and vastly more receptive to new 
> development tools and technologies. But reaching that audience is 
> tricky.
I dont agree with the 10 times. Its hundred or thousand times bigger, 
if RR would start to focus more a this niche and better to the needs of 
"non professional prorgrammers". Im one of this, hence I know what im 
talking about.

Dan, why do they not listen to you at RR?

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speadlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  8 02:26:56 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 02:26:56 -0400
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <4115C3CD.4000601@chipp.com>
References: <00e001c47cf3$15e73e70$0301a8c0@john>
	<59DEAA34-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4115C3CD.4000601@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <F2340EE4-E903-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 2:10 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> One thing I do think should be made clear though: RR is a PROFESSIONAL 
> LEVEL DEVELOPMENT TOOL. There are those of us (including you) who make 
> a living writing professional code using RR. I only mention this so 
> others (perhaps undecided) who read this thread will know that 
> professional level products have been created with this product.

I'm happy to agree with that too.

RR in the hands of a professional developer who takes the time to learn 
its in-and-outs, strengths and weaknesses, can certainly make a VERY 
professional tool. I'd never dispute that... I'd be foolish to. I'm a 
professional developer, and I like to think the products I've produced 
with Rev are professional too.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Aug  8 02:29:46 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 01:29:46 -0500
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <BD3B2E28.382C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD3B2E28.382C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <4115C85A.3070105@chipp.com>

Ken and Troy,

Forgive my ignorance on this topic, but just so I understand. Does 
Director and Real Basic 'use' ActiveX tree controls, data grids, etc? If 
so, are they 'embedded' in the app with full access to properties and 
methods and instancing via script control? If so, WOW. Do you know of 
any examples of these in use?

best,

Chipp


Ken Ray wrote:

> On 8/8/04 12:55 AM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Troy et al..
>>
>>
>>>Agreed on both points. I think at the very least, Rev should support
>>>ActiveX controls...
>>
>>Do you have an idea on how you will use these? I know....PDF and Flash.
>>But others? (fact is, PDF and Flash can be already used within
>>altBrowser, though albeit there are some functional issues.)
> 
> 
> Personally I'd want access to other control types - trees, data grids,
> panes, splitters, date/time pickers, charting controls, etc., plus the
> ability to use other ActiveX controls that would act as drivers to other
> hardware/software.

From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  8 02:31:37 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 02:31:37 -0400
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
In-Reply-To: <BD3B2CB5.3828%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD3B2CB5.3828%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <99E79FB2-E904-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 2:04 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Not to throw water on your suggestion, but no, I don't think it would 
> be
> viable (at least not as a permanent change to Rev), and here's the 
> reason...
> the substituting of a stack with another stack would be disconcerting 
> (to
> say the least) to experienced Rev developers. The reason is that they 
> (and
> I) are too used to just being able to switch to browse tool to try 
> something
> out. We are *empowered* by the single mode, rather than hampered.

That said, Bob, if you think about it, YOU (simply by nature of having 
concepted it) could make a Rev plug-in which would allow you to have 
this capability within your own environment. It could consist of a 
single button which said "Test stack" which did the temp saving, 
switched to the browse tool, then when clicked again, loaded the temp 
stack and switched to the select tool.

If you really need it, you could do it.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Aug  8 02:51:25 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 08:51:25 +0200
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <BD3B2E28.382C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEDBGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


> Personally I'd want access to other control types - trees, data grids,
> panes, splitters, date/time pickers, charting controls, etc., plus the
> ability to use other ActiveX controls that would act as drivers to other
> hardware/software.

Nothing you cannot do in RR with it's own controls... Many ActiveX are
no more than the usual controls we have in RR to display said objects
in a browser for example. 

Another interesting idea would be to allow RR to compile ActiveX 
controls and or DLLs for the windoze plat. Wouldn't it?

From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  8 02:39:47 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 02:39:47 -0400
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <4115C85A.3070105@chipp.com>
References: <BD3B2E28.382C%kray@sonsothunder.com> <4115C85A.3070105@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BD7560EA-E905-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 2:29 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Forgive my ignorance on this topic, but just so I understand. Does 
> Director and Real Basic 'use' ActiveX tree controls, data grids, etc? 
> If so, are they 'embedded' in the app with full access to properties 
> and methods and instancing via script control? If so, WOW. Do you know 
> of any examples of these in use?

Both those apps have almost no limits with regard to what controls are 
available to them, other than the fact that they are generally "Direct 
to screen" meaning they don't get rendered into the graphics buffer, 
but "ride on top" of the app. Based on stuff I've seen, I would assume 
that data grids would be within the scope, yes. All the stuff Ken 
mentioned and more...

I've seen examples of lots of ActiveX use in Director, but personally, 
I generally use Xtras instead since they allow me to author on Mac. It 
is really in Rev where I see their value, since the Xtras (externals) 
just aren't there to be had.

WOW is about right.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Aug  8 02:45:05 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 23:45:05 -0700
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <4115C5B9.60201@chipp.com>
References: <BD3AF7B2.37C9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
 <90EEDCFE-E8EE-11D8-BBEA-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
 <4115C5B9.60201@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <5135727162.20040807234505@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

Saturday, August 7, 2004, 11:18:33 PM, you wrote:

CW> Also, as you recall at the Rev Summit in CA, Chris Bohnert demonstrated
CW> how easy it is to create an external for RR. One which can call a 
CW> Win32API if needed. So, it seems to me, an interim step would be a
CW> really good primer for creating externals for RR. 'Cause even with a
CW> WinAPI interface embedded in the language, users will still need to
CW> learn a lot to be able to use it.

I think there are two approaches to this:

First, in order to get out of the RR sandbox, a developer either has
to code an external in C or get someone else to do it for them. A
primer for how to create externals for RR needs to be aimed at
existing C programmers, teach non-C-programmers how to program in C,
or somehow do the work for them. And this is not just Windows. Mac
users wanting to create external libraries would need the same sort of
skills to make calls into the Mac OS. This isn't something every RR
developer needs, and shouldn't be.

Second, I feel that the extension of Transcript to externals has a
couple of pluses - one is that programmers coming from another
environment (MSVC for example) can make port their code over to
Transcript more easily if they have access to calls that are not
currently supported by the RR engine (and in fact the engine would
probably have no business supporting). This I think would be a big
draw towards acceptance in the Windows market. The second plus is that
given access to a standard ActiveX mechanism, RR programmers would
have a wealth of existing controls and libraries at their disposal
without having to reinvent everything from scratch. As Ken Ray has
pointed out, there are lots of grid controls and the like that exist
for C and VB programmers to pluck off the net and drop into their
applications, but that capability doesn't yet exist for RR.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Aug  8 02:55:58 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 01:55:58 -0500
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <BD7560EA-E905-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <BD3B2E28.382C%kray@sonsothunder.com> <4115C85A.3070105@chipp.com>
	<BD7560EA-E905-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <4115CE7E.8050303@chipp.com>

Thanks Troy,

I did a quick check on the RB site and the only thing I could find on 
their forum was the following:

In response to a request for (surprise) Tree and Grid controls a user 
responded:

"For Windows tree controls, you might look into ActiveX.  Some of them
mimic the Windows Explorer very thoroughly.  I've not seen ActiveX used
with RB much.  The few examples I've seen have been extremely sketchy
and leaning toward merely theoretical."

It seems like most people use ActiveX controls for things like drivers, 
Text-to-Speech, Windows Media object (cool), etc..

-Chipp

From jhj at jhj.com  Sun Aug  8 03:11:36 2004
From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry J)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:11:36 -0700
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <20040808061902.ADEBE9300F3@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040808061902.ADEBE9300F3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2FC12A8F-E90A-11D8-979F-003065B58254@jhj.com>

> From: Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com>
> Subject: Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
>
> Trevor DeVore wrote:
>> I agree with Ken on this.  I would like to see support for calling Win
>> APIs, DLLs and ActiveX.  Even though one of the major features of Rev 
>> is
>> the ability to develop for multiple platforms there are jobs where
>> catering to a specific platform is required.
>
> Trevor,
> Unlike most of us on this list, you are already an accomplished C
> programmer. In fact, you have successfully written a couple VERY NICE
> externals for RR!
>
> Now, I wonder, how many others on this list would take the time to 
> learn
> the correct C interfaces to the WinAPI (I'm sure Ken would!). As 
> feature
> requests are made, the RR team has to factor how many users would
> benefit from them.
>
> Also, as you recall at the Rev Summit in CA, Chris Bohnert demonstrated
> how easy it is to create an external for RR. One which can call a
> Win32API if needed. So, it seems to me, an interim step would be a
> really good primer for creating externals for RR. 'Cause even with a
> WinAPI interface embedded in the language, users will still need to
> learn a lot to be able to use it.

I, for one, would learn the C interfaces to whatever API I need to use, 
which in my current situation would be OS X. I have written a lot of C 
on a lot of platforms. I wrote a bunch of custom XCMDs for HC (in 
MPW!), most of which (if not all) would be unnecessary in RR. I do need 
to know that I will be able to write OS X externals using XCode. 
Chris's demonstration at the Summit was excellent, and it will be easy, 
I hope. When I asked where all the required pearls of wisdom are 
documented, several heads turned to another of the participants with 
question marks for eyes... his response was something like I dunno, I 
sent it all to Kevin.

Right on, Chipp. I need to see a really good primer. I'll settle for 
even a bad one...

Cheer,
Jerry Jensen


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sun Aug  8 03:17:56 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 09:17:56 +0200
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
	!controversial!
In-Reply-To: <411598C8.5000208@chipp.com>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
	<E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<411598C8.5000208@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <1221DBFC-E90B-11D8-ADBD-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 08.08.2004, at 05:06, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Along with this new day, are plenty of new opportunities. Where is the 
> VB for Linux? I'm not suggesting RR take front and center, but if I 
> owned the company, I would certainly prepare a strategy focussed on 
> Linux within the timeframe of Longhorn launch. Think about it, all you 
> really need is a single major player validating the RR platform. A 
> strategic partner like IBM can do wonders for this technology. Just 
> think about how many copies would sell if IBM invested in RR as the 
> 'VB' for cross-platform development...

Agree with that, Chipp.
That would be one way to get into the market.
But, whats about a strategic partner called the community?

I would like to make a proposal, where Rev should go and how this can 
be realized?
*Change the actual licensing policy and license the engine only too,
*license the engine let the developers (in common project) make GUI for 
WIN, Linux, Newbies etc...
*Dont violate them every half a year with another license system
*Say clearly to them: We need to sell every year so many 
licenses/upgrades to survive and further development. (RR! You owe this 
to your gratis supporters). And the guys and gals will understand and 
not feeling constrained as many do now. And will struggle with you - 
not only blindly evangelise the converted. Think about it, how the old 
german trainer Rehagel, who has won the european championship in 
futball(soccer) with the DAVID-Country Greece against Giants like 
France England, Spain, Italy, Germany, Portugal, Cechia...: "Before I 
came, everybody did what he wants, now everybody does what he can."
*Therefore change the License for the last(!) time to a way of yearly 
subscription
*focus your actual GUI to the professional developers and sell it as 
that
*collaborate in projects with your developers
*Dont make your design, new features etc. in a hidden and quiet place 
anywhere in the highlands. Ask the comunity before!
*publish (let publish) on the webpage common project which can be done 
with and from the rev community
*Find these new Developer(markets), together with your community, which 
do not know actually that they are (future) developers of rev.


regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speadlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Aug  8 03:27:04 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 02:27:04 -0500
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <2FC12A8F-E90A-11D8-979F-003065B58254@jhj.com>
References: <20040808061902.ADEBE9300F3@mail.runrev.com>
	<2FC12A8F-E90A-11D8-979F-003065B58254@jhj.com>
Message-ID: <4115D5C8.6040505@chipp.com>



Jerry J wrote:


> When I asked where all the required pearls of wisdom are documented, 
> several heads turned to another of the participants with question marks 
> for eyes... his response was something like I dunno, I sent it all to 
> Kevin.

Hi Jerry!

Mark Weider is the guy. He wrote an external primer for RR, but I don't 
know whatever became of it...


> Right on, Chipp. I need to see a really good primer. I'll settle for 
> even a bad one...

I keep promising myself to make one soon. But alas, things get in the 
way-- I'm afraid it's on the same schedule as Devolution ;-)

Mark,

"Second, I feel that the extension of Transcript to externals has a
couple of pluses - one is that programmers coming from another
environment (MSVC for example) can make port their code over to
Transcript more easily if they have access to calls that are not
currently supported by the RR engine (and in fact the engine would
probably have no business supporting). This I think would be a big
draw towards acceptance in the Windows market. The second plus is that
given access to a standard ActiveX mechanism, RR programmers would
have a wealth of existing controls and libraries at their disposal
without having to reinvent everything from scratch. As Ken Ray has
pointed out, there are lots of grid controls and the like that exist
for C and VB programmers to pluck off the net and drop into their
applications, but that capability doesn't yet exist for RR."

Yep, I agree. After spending the last 30 minutes perusing the RB 
developer list archives, I see there can be some significant support 
'costs' to adding ActiveX as a feature set...



best,

Chipp

From warren at howsoft.com  Sun Aug  8 03:33:22 2004
From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 04:33:22 -0300
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
References: <BD3B2CB5.3828%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <022101c47d1a$3a83e2c0$0301a8c0@john>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
To: "Bob Warren" <warren at howsoft.com>; "Use Revolution List"
<use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: Program Testing and Persistent Properties

> > When the option is selected: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> > 1. On selecting the Browse Tool (Run scripts and interact), save the
> > stack to the HD temporarily.
> > 2. On selecting the Pointer Tool (edit), substitute the modified stack
with
> > the temp stack.
> >
> > Things are easy to say, but more difficult to do. Do you think that
> > something along these lines would be viable?
>
> Not to throw water on your suggestion, but no, I don't think it would be
> viable (at least not as a permanent change to Rev), and here's the
reason...
> the substituting of a stack with another stack would be disconcerting (to
> say the least) to experienced Rev developers. The reason is that they (and
> I) are too used to just being able to switch to browse tool to try
something
> out. We are *empowered* by the single mode, rather than hampered.

So whoever doesn't want it simply doesn't turn on the option..........
What I was suggesting was a permanent optional choice, not a permanent
change to a fixed mode that experienced users would not like.
(Sorry to have called you "Ray", it was a slip of my typewriter.)



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Aug  8 04:21:41 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 01:21:41 -0700
Subject: Is being a good cross-platform tool good enough? [was Re: Is
	Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <4D00088D-E8F4-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <20040807231554.89CDE9300D9@mail.runrev.com>
	<4D00088D-E8F4-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <FA1DA9B1-E913-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Frank.....

Pardon me, but this comment seemed a little strange to me. "Just 
another cross-platform tool"? What others are there? RealBasic has been 
mentioned. Maybe Director (though it's not for general-purpose apps).

I think the shoe belongs on the other foot. If Rev attempts to be "just 
another Windows tool" (or for that matter "just another Mac tool") it 
will miss its opportunity to be the best damn cross-platform tool 
around.


On Aug 7, 2004, at 9:34 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

>  But as long as RunRev continues to make decisions based on its being 
> just another cross-platform tool, then they will miss out on being the 
> best tool, regardless of platform.
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Aug  8 04:24:41 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 01:24:41 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <4115C3CD.4000601@chipp.com>
References: <00e001c47cf3$15e73e70$0301a8c0@john>
	<59DEAA34-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4115C3CD.4000601@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <65401C52-E914-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 11:10 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> One thing I do think should be made clear though: RR is a PROFESSIONAL 
> LEVEL DEVELOPMENT TOOL. There are those of us (including you) who make 
> a living writing professional code using RR. I only mention this so 
> others (perhaps undecided) who read this thread will know that 
> professional level products have been created with this product.
>
Yes, yes and yes. When I say Rev won't make significant inroads into 
the professional programming market, I'm talking about the 99% of that 
audience who don't know about Rev and would dismiss it out of hand if 
they heard about it. The other 1% (including yours truly) just smile 
all the way to the bank as we out-bid Java-bound competitors.

Heh heh



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Aug  8 04:25:31 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 01:25:31 -0700
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <4115C5B9.60201@chipp.com>
References: <BD3AF7B2.37C9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<90EEDCFE-E8EE-11D8-BBEA-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
	<4115C5B9.60201@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <8358CC92-E914-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

I'd volunteer to work with Chris to create the primer even though I'm 
deliberately ignorant of C.

Dan

On Aug 7, 2004, at 11:18 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>
>> I agree with Ken on this.  I would like to see support for calling 
>> Win APIs, DLLs and ActiveX.  Even though one of the major features of 
>> Rev is the ability to develop for multiple platforms there are jobs 
>> where catering to a specific platform is required.
>
>
> Trevor,
>
> Unlike most of us on this list, you are already an accomplished C 
> programmer. In fact, you have successfully written a couple VERY NICE 
> externals for RR!
>
> Now, I wonder, how many others on this list would take the time to 
> learn the correct C interfaces to the WinAPI (I'm sure Ken would!). As 
> feature requests are made, the RR team has to factor how many users 
> would benefit from them.
>
> Also, as you recall at the Rev Summit in CA, Chris Bohnert 
> demonstrated how easy it is to create an external for RR. One which 
> can call a Win32API if needed. So, it seems to me, an interim step 
> would be a really good primer for creating externals for RR. 'Cause 
> even with a WinAPI interface embedded in the language, users will 
> still need to learn a lot to be able to use it.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Aug  8 04:26:25 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 01:26:25 -0700
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <88BC2142-E903-11D8-ADBD-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
References: <p06110416bd394ee06021@[194.158.42.164]>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040806224630.00ad67c0@mail.tweedly.net>
	<78662436-E824-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41147391.9050506@chipp.com>
	<E15BF5A8-E895-11D8-AC61-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<88BC2142-E903-11D8-ADBD-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <A3617158-E914-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 11:23 PM, Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:

> Dan, why do they not listen to you at RR?
>
They do. They don't always agree, but they do listen. Kevin and I have 
fairly regular dialog on these subjects.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sun Aug  8 04:32:35 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 01:32:35 -0700
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <4115C5B9.60201@chipp.com>
References: <BD3AF7B2.37C9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<90EEDCFE-E8EE-11D8-BBEA-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
	<4115C5B9.60201@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <7FCB42BF-E915-11D8-BBEA-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 7, 2004, at 11:18 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Unlike most of us on this list, you are already an accomplished C 
> programmer. In fact, you have successfully written a couple VERY NICE 
> externals for RR!
> Now, I wonder, how many others on this list would take the time to 
> learn the correct C interfaces to the WinAPI (I'm sure Ken would!). As 
> feature requests are made, the RR team has to factor how many users 
> would benefit from them.

I agree that these types of things might not be at the top of the 
development list but I would like to see them in there someday.  As I 
mentioned, I would like ActiveX in order to support other video players 
on Windows but the project I would use it on doesn't have the budget to 
support paying someone to create it yet (I suspect that this type of 
external is way out of my league).  I would be perfectly happy using an 
external to do this if it was available however.

> Also, as you recall at the Rev Summit in CA, Chris Bohnert 
> demonstrated how easy it is to create an external for RR. One which 
> can call a Win32API if needed. So, it seems to me, an interim step 
> would be a really good primer for creating externals for RR.

I agree that a primer for externals would be very beneficial.  One nice 
thing about Director was being able to go out and find an Xtra to 
accomplish just about anything Director couldn't do natively.  If it 
wasn't necessary to hunt down information on how to create them then 
perhaps more people would be involved.  I would like to see some 
examples of interacting with OS technologies that the user interacts 
with (WebKit, PDF, etc.).  I know how to pass data around but I don't 
even know where to start when it comes to viewing data from something 
like WebKit.  I think Chris mentioned that you do something with images 
but some examples showing how to go about this would be nice.

> 'Cause even with a WinAPI interface embedded in the language, users 
> will still need to learn a lot to be able to use it.

True but if other development environments are doing this successfully 
and it is a feature that potential Rev customers are looking for then 
it seems like something which should be on the roadmap (even if it is 
down the road a little bit).  If it is possible to handle the calls in 
Transcript then it makes the implementation that much cleaner and means 
I just have to browse the Windows API online rather than opening up my 
compiler and putting together an external.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Aug  8 04:46:33 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:46:33 +0200
Subject: Rev 2.2.1 for Linux very impressive !
In-Reply-To: <7F943051-E8E7-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <25E830C2-E8A9-11D8-9202-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<3657CF28-E8B9-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<A7AEDD38-E8E6-11D8-BDBC-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<7F943051-E8E7-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <733E3D18-E917-11D8-B958-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hi Troy,

>
> On Aug 7, 2004, at 10:57 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>> I suppose that the Darwin engine + the Linux distribution stacks are 
>> eligibles there but didn't test this for my own.
>
> I'm running X11 under OSX/Darwin at this point. I plan to do some 
> tests with the linux distribution of Rev to see if it is even 
> possible.

Please, let me know how it goes ;-)

> I'm also running Linux under VirtualPC and a on real machine (P3/833 + 
> 512 megs).

The good thing with Linux is that, in about server-side apps, it's 
running very fast, even on PIII configs !

> Overall I've been really pleased with the Linux version of Rev.
>
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Kind Regards, Pierre


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Aug  8 04:53:29 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 01:53:29 -0700
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <7FCB42BF-E915-11D8-BBEA-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BD3AF7B2.37C9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<90EEDCFE-E8EE-11D8-BBEA-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
	<4115C5B9.60201@chipp.com>
	<7FCB42BF-E915-11D8-BBEA-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <6B847930-E918-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Another idea has been percolating this morning.

OS X has AppleScript and supports the OSA (Open Scripting 
Architecture). Windows has Windows Scripting Host (WSH) and I think 
also supports OSA. OSA lets you create systtem-level actions in a 
scripting tool like Perl or Python or Tcl.

So it might be feasible to have people who program in those scripting 
languages develop OSA modules that we could call from Rev?

(If this is irrational, chalk it up to the fact that it's 2 a.m. and my 
brain is at least partially fried.)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Sun Aug  8 05:01:44 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:01:44 +0100
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
References: <20040807231554.89CDE9300D9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <001601c47d26$53ff3540$5602a8c0@athalon>


Troy wrote
>Out of curiosity, what functionality specifically do you need which
>then requires QuickTime? Rev can obviously run happily without it, and
>some basic media types are even supported in that case - but beyond
>that, QuickTime is required to do the heavy lifting.

Hi Troy,
I wasn't really thinking of the 'rich' media bits. To me Rev should do the
basics itself. Sort of thing I'm thinking of are simple things like the
player controls not appearing if QT isn't installed. Not retested it but
from memory, if an MPEG is played (Wav won't play without QT remember - but
after Klaus's success need to work on this) in windows no controller appear
at all (but the MPEG plays). I had to resort to scripting my own controllers
based on Klaus's "banana" controller script.

Surely this level of support shouldn't rely on QT.

My other problems have been weird behaviour with basic transistions. I never
use transitions at all on windows now.

There may be other points using recording through QT, but I've never tried
this as I tend to avoid these areas in case they are QT dependent.

Cheers
Steve


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 05:43:36 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 02:43:36 -0700
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <BD3B1131.3811%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD3B1131.3811%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <4115F5C8.5080708@fourthworld.com>

Ken Ray wrote:
> On 8/7/04 10:57 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I take both InfoWorld and EWeek. Both have had multiple articles about
>>the 'disenfranchisment' (is that a word?) of VB developers with .NET
> 
> 
> This is more I think about VB developers not wanting to go to .NET because
> it represents a major paradigm shift for them. (BTW: I'm one of them. ;-)

Paraigm shift is a big part of it.  But another part is the download 
size:  I've been told that for non-XP customers (roughly half of the 
active Win installed base) using .Net requires downloading a 43MB 
framework system.

I was talking about Rev to a VB developer recently, and when I told him 
the engine was only about 2MBs and completely self-contained (no DLLs 
strewn all over the hard drive as seems customary with tools like VB and 
ToolBook) he nearly fell out of his chair. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Sun Aug  8 05:46:34 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:46:34 +0100
Subject: Re Demise of VB? (was: Rev's Mac-Centricity)
References: <20040808043218.BEB519300E8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c47d2c$974e4a60$5602a8c0@athalon>

Ken Ray wrote
>
>On 8/7/04 10:06 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
>
>> Not to mention all of the alienated VB programmers MS created when it
>> dumped VB in favor of .NET. And now they're getting rid of VB all
together!
>
>Really? Could you provide a link where you saw that? Just curious...
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software

Seems puzzling... In my Sep 2004 copy of Computer Shopper, News states
Microsoft is releasing express versions of a number of apps aimed at budding
programmers. VB 2005 is one of those listed.

Aimed at grabbing those millions of hobbyists?

Steve


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 05:48:44 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 02:48:44 -0700
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <2CE79B2E-E8F4-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <20040808030427.662009300E2@mail.runrev.com>
	<EF5B58BB-E8F1-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<2CE79B2E-E8F4-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <4115F6FC.2020708@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:
> I think at the very least, Rev should support 
> ActiveX controls... and as we all know, I'm a Mac guy. ActiveX is just 
> too important to ignore.

THAT is probable a bigger obstacle to Win penetration than any other 
single factor.

It's hard to appreciate the how many companies depend on ActiveX until 
you work for one, but once you get a feel for how and how many companies 
are using it it's undeniably a show-stopper for many sales.

Imagine if a Mac app didn't support even the most rudimentary Apple 
events.  While ActiveX is not a requirement, no serious Win dev tool 
exists without support for it.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 05:58:30 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 02:58:30 -0700
Subject: The sky is falling... [was Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?]
In-Reply-To: <327B1566-E8F5-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <20040808030427.662009300E2@mail.runrev.com>
	<EF5B58BB-E8F1-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<327B1566-E8F5-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4115F946.2000702@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> Java's xplat support  is, from all accounts and limited personal 
> experience, a nightmare and a joke.

Not anymore.

Sure, when Marimba release Bongo we all had a good chuckle, but that was 
many years ago.

A more modern example is ThinkFree Office:
<http://www.thinkfree.com/products/pd_office20.jsp>

Fully written in Java, it's appearances and performance seem roughly on 
par with Rev for many key tasks.

I managed to purge my hard drive of all Microsoft apps, but since so 
many people mistake Excel and Word for open standards that it's 
essential to be able to read those formats. ThinkFree Office does a fair 
job of reading and writing most Excel and Word files (those are 
proprietary formats, so there are limitations), and it does so fairly 
efficiently and provides acceptable interfaces for editing them.

Oddly enough, they have a feature similar to RevOnline called 
"CyberDrive", which provides space on their servers for storing and 
trading documents.

Of course I believe they'd cut their development costs in half if they 
switched to Rev, but as an example of what modern Java frameworks can 
deliver it's a pretty good one.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sun Aug  8 06:06:54 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 12:06:54 +0200
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <59DEAA34-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <00e001c47cf3$15e73e70$0301a8c0@john>
	<59DEAA34-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <AD038F25-E922-11D8-ADBD-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 08.08.2004, at 05:16, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I reiterate what I said earlier today in this very interesting 
> discussion. I do not believe Rev has any serious chance of making 
> significant inroads into the professional development community on ANY 
> platform, and certainly not on Windows or (moreso?) on *nix. It will 
> always be a product aimed at hobbyist and inventive user class 
> developers who do not write code for a living but who have real 
> problems to solve at work or at home. That's a huge market, bigger, I 
> believe, than the programmer market. But it has to be located and 
> convinced.
Thanks Dan
couldnt agree more!

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speadlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug  8 07:16:18 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 13:16:18 +0200
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408071736470.9572-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408071736470.9572-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <5EE87C94-E92C-11D8-BEE5-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Judy and Stephen,

> Hi Stephen,
>
> I dunno myself @;-) but think I recall discussions on list that Rev 
> only
> likes uncompressed WAVs.  Ask Klaus or search the last month's worth of
> posts (for one from Klaus I believe on supported file formats).

I did the searching for you :-)

Here my post from july, 6th:

> ...
> Addition:
> In my tests almost any file playable in the WinMediaPlayer will be
> playable via "players" in RR without QT...
>
> Audio:
> wav
> aif
> au
> mp3
>
> Video:
> avi (even DivX, if installed)
> mpg
>
> The different stremaing formats are not supported unfortunately:
> wmv
> wma
> asf
> etc...

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug  8 07:26:44 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 13:26:44 +0200
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <5EE87C94-E92C-11D8-BEE5-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408071736470.9572-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<5EE87C94-E92C-11D8-BEE5-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <D3ABE4D2-E92D-11D8-BEE5-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi,

> Hi Judy and Stephen,
>
>> Hi Stephen,
>>
>> I dunno myself @;-) but think I recall discussions on list that Rev 
>> only
>> likes uncompressed WAVs.  Ask Klaus or search the last month's worth 
>> of
>> posts (for one from Klaus I believe on supported file formats).
>
> I did the searching for you :-)
>
> Here my post from july, 6th:
>
>> ...
>> Addition:
>> In my tests almost any file playable in the WinMediaPlayer will be
>> playable via "players" in RR without QT...
>>
>> Audio:
>> wav
>> aif
>> au
>> mp3
>>
>> Video:
>> avi (even DivX, if installed)
>> mpg
>>
>> The different stremaing formats are not supported unfortunately:
>> wmv
>> wma
>> asf
>> etc...

small addition concerning the "play ac xyz" command, which does not 
support
COMPRESSED sound formats:

> ...the default play command which uses low-level sound routines in 
> Win32 and
> MacOS which don't support compression.
>
> Posted 9/2/2002 by Scott Raney to the MetaCard List

So this is official :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Sun Aug  8 08:08:58 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 13:08:58 +0100
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
Message-ID: <000e01c47d40$7c40b190$5602a8c0@athalon>



 Dan wrote
 >I reiterate what I said earlier today in this very interesting
 >discussion. I do not believe Rev has any serious chance of making
 >significant inroads into the professional development community on ANY
 >platform, and certainly not on Windows or (moreso?) on *nix. It will
 >always be a product aimed at hobbyist and inventive user class
 >developers who do not write code for a living but who have real
 >problems to solve at work or at home. That's a huge market, bigger, I
 >believe, than the programmer market. But it has to be located and
 >convinced.

 I couldn't agree more...
 I see the 'express' market as the big one, not the professional developer
(but understand that Rev is a pro tool)
As I see it there is a very large and intelligent older/retiree community
rapidly building skills in this area. They have the time to invest in
learing and not the need to sell the product. They programme for fun,
providing tools for schools, clubs, freinds. Also, there are peolple like
myself and those I work with who programme at home generating tools to help
our work, be it engineering, research, schools - again not to sell. These
people need a tool that developes code (script) rapidly, is easy to use,
doesn't have to follow the old rules (they are not professionals so don't
know the old rules) but they need the features to at least do everything
reasonably but not perfectly. They provide very local one off custom
solutions*

 These are windows based (UK) not xplat developers (except maybe Macs who
develop for organisations using PCs) but that doesn't matter if the tool is
usuable. The market is there but it needs to be tapped by good documentation
and high profiling - back to an earlier point that Rev *never* appears in
the windows mags.

 Rev is easy to use and could be easy to learn. It's powerful - it needs to
address some weaknesses but most of all I think it needs to grab a bigger
market!

 Cheers
 Steve
 PS - I have bopught Vol 1... waiting earnestly for vol 2 and 3 (not a dig
;-))

 *As an example, I produced a specialised stroke analysis tool for a
swimming
 club. This was specific to the coaches needs and no way would he get it
 commercially. There are thousands such clubs around who are now computer
 based and are computer literate. Most have a 'member' who can try their
hand
 at this.


From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Sun Aug  8 08:36:20 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 09:36:20 -0300
Subject: Suppressing Save Dialogue - How do I do it?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408071902200.10386-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <BD3BA494.9505%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

I went to find the Rev archives just now and discovered that apparently they
are no longer available.  Is that true?  In either case, I was looking for a
way to suppress the Save dialogue when I save a stack under script control.
Anyone know of a way?  Rev doesn't seem to have a "no dialogue" script
element.  Jim


OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From FMoyer at aol.com  Sun Aug  8 09:16:36 2004
From: FMoyer at aol.com (FMoyer at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 09:16:36 EDT
Subject: imagedata problem
Message-ID: <c0.133e35bd.2e4781b4@aol.com>

> On Aug 7, 2004, at 4:49 PM, FMoyer at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone else have this experience? -- I'm trying to analyze the
> > imagedata
> > of a whole bunch of grayscale images.
> >
> What version are you using?? (Some things are fixed in the beta and
> some weird stuff has been added.)
> 
> Dar Scott
> 
> 
> 
I'm using 2.2.1 and MacOSX.

But I may be onto an answer -- could have more to do with something I 
probably did wrong in GraphicConverter. Except it still is puzzling that the 
imagedata would be so obviously corrupt while the image looks fine.

Thanks.
Fred

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  8 11:06:36 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 08:06:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RevPrintText/Field/Card problems
In-Reply-To: <8B4CF466-E61C-11D8-ACE3-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <20040808150636.67394.qmail@web60510.mail.yahoo.com>

--- ron barber <rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Any chance RevPrintText will be updated to support
> Unicode? Printing 
> unicode text is proving challenging. Type Unicoded
> text into a fld and 
> then use the various print options available to us.
> 
> <revprinttext >
> put the htmltext of fld 1 into thetext
> revshowprintdialog false,true
> revprinttext thetext
> === This results in a blank page(s) being previewed
> as well as 'printed'
> 
> put the text of fld 1 into thetext
> revshowprintdialog false,true
> revprinttext thetext
> === This results in the unicode text being printed
> in ascii format ie. 
> incorrectlly
> 
> <Print card...>
> This can be used. One just needs to clone a stack
> with a field the size 
> of the printable area of the chosen paper, add a
> little to the topright 
> and chop off a little of the bottomleft to get rid
> of the fld outline 
> and it passes as a printed page of text. It is not
> an ideal solution 
> however.
> 
> <revprintfield>
> This works for ascii text but not for unicode. The
> results is a blank 
> page(s) similar to using revprinttext using
> htmltext.
> 
> 
> thanks
> Ron
> 

Hi Ron,

If you haven't filed a bugzilla report yet, you
should, as otherwise it's not going to get on the
agenda -- however, I think I've found the culprit :
handler 'revSetPrintFont' in the 'revPrintBack'
backscript doesn't take into account if the field font
is set to something unicode, like "Osaka,Japanese"
when it checks if the textFont of the field is in the
fontnames of the printer.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
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From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  8 11:23:29 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 08:23:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: First update for vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <p06110401bd3a8519e4a4@[66.81.130.36]>
Message-ID: <20040808152329.91670.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
> >
> >Message: 18
> >Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 23:25:54 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: Alejandro Tejada <capellan2000 at yahoo.com>
> >Subject: First update for vector to pdf
> >To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >Message-ID:
> <20040807062554.562.qmail at web40513.mail.yahoo.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> >Hi Developers,
> >
> >Here is a quick fix for the problem mentioned
> >by Jim Hurley.
> >
> >Replace the whole section of code for
> >the case of Polygon with this code:
> >Tested and works with the 3d vector graphic
> >of the Rotater stack.
> >Beware of linewraps introduced by this yahoo mail.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Another small point I noticed.
> 
> My graphic was named "rainbow" and so the *short*
> name did not 
> contain the word "graphic." So I just changed the
> code line:
> 
> 	if the short name of control i contains "graphic"
> 
> to
> 
> 	if the name of control i contains "graphic"
> 

Hi Jim and Alejandro,

This part of the code would even fire for images that
just happened to have a name like "silly graphics" ;
it is best to check word 1 of the long name of control
i.

Just something that came to mind as I was catching up
on use-rev mail -- keep up the great work :-)

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
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From Meitnik at aol.com  Sun Aug  8 11:24:40 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:24:40 EDT
Subject: Flash roots
Message-ID: <12f.484cf921.2e479fb8@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/8/04 2:22:57 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
writes:


> Flash is a plug-in turned authoring environment.
> -- Nope, I was one of the testers for Pre-flash and flash. Flash actually has 
its roots in SmartDraw and Freehand. But then thats some messy politics 
between Aldus/Altsys some 15yrs ago. Actionscript was response to Hypertalk which 
Altsys hated. I tried very hard to get Hypertalk (via superacard) into Altsys 
products but failed, sorry. Sadly, Actionscript has more books written about it 
than Hypertalk ever will have. 

Andrew



From Meitnik at aol.com  Sun Aug  8 11:29:24 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:29:24 EDT
Subject: cross platform info
Message-ID: <45.128fa47a.2e47a0d4@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/8/04 1:02:21 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
writes:


> a situation where they have to maintain multiple code bases or, in
> the not-less-unattractive alternative, incorporate lots of
> platform-checking conditional code.
> 
> This kind of thing can kill a small developer.
> -- um, whats killing is not finding all the small stuff that is need to make 
the crossplatform stuff work. I would like to see RR docs have a full section 
on win/mac issuses explained and how to be handled. Why dont the webnotes be 
fulled out to teach newibies whats the teething points for crossplatform 
support are.

Andrew



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 11:32:10 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 08:32:10 -0700
Subject: cross platform info
In-Reply-To: <45.128fa47a.2e47a0d4@aol.com>
References: <45.128fa47a.2e47a0d4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4116477A.9040806@fourthworld.com>

Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/8/04 1:02:21 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
> writes:
>
>>a situation where they have to maintain multiple code bases or, in
>>the not-less-unattractive alternative, incorporate lots of
>>platform-checking conditional code.
>>
>>This kind of thing can kill a small developer.
>>-- um, whats killing is not finding all the small stuff that is need to make  
> the crossplatform stuff work. I would like to see RR docs have a full section 
> on win/mac issuses explained and how to be handled. Why dont the webnotes be 
> fulled out to teach newibies whats the teething points for crossplatform 
> support are.

That's a vast subject, and will vary from app to app.

What did you have in mind?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  8 11:32:56 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 08:32:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Suppressing Save Dialogue - How do I do it?
In-Reply-To: <BD3BA494.9505%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
Message-ID: <20040808153256.95239.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jim Carwardine
<JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com> wrote:
> I went to find the Rev archives just now and
> discovered that apparently they
> are no longer available.  Is that true? 

If you mean Alex Rice's search cgi at mindlube.com ;
yes that resource seems to have been retired ; I do
hope someone at Runtime Revolution HQ talks to Alex to
try and resurrect the service at the runrev.com
website.

> In either case, I was looking for a
> way to suppress the Save dialogue when I save a
> stack under script control.
> Anyone know of a way?  Rev doesn't seem to have a
> "no dialogue" script
> element.  Jim
> 

Well I'm not sure how you could prevent it from
showing up inside the IDE ; however, it shouldn't show
up in your standalones, so why do you want to make
sure it doesn't show up ?

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
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From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  8 11:36:01 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:36:01 -0400
Subject: Flash roots
In-Reply-To: <12f.484cf921.2e479fb8@aol.com>
References: <12f.484cf921.2e479fb8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A71BA354-E950-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 11:24 AM, Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

>
>> Flash is a plug-in turned authoring environment.
>> -- Nope, I was one of the testers for Pre-flash and flash. Flash 
>> actually has 
> its roots in SmartDraw and Freehand. But then thats some messy politics
> between Aldus/Altsys some 15yrs ago. Actionscript was response to 
> Hypertalk which
> Altsys hated. I tried very hard to get Hypertalk (via superacard) into 
> Altsys
> products but failed, sorry. Sadly, Actionscript has more books written 
> about it
> than Hypertalk ever will have.

Wha??

It does not.

It roots in a product called FutureSplash Animator, which was written 
by a guy lived about 3 blocks from me in Toronto Canada. I used the 
betas of the original FutureSplash and used to call the dude at his 
house to provide feedback. It was a plug-in to allow vector graphics 
animation in web browsers. It had minimal scripting, but the drawing 
tools haven't changed much since Macromedia bought it from him.

Smartdraw and Freehand had absolutely nothing to do with Flash's 
"roots." Altsys? Hypercard? What?? You have experienced some entirely 
different history than the one in this reality.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug  8 11:43:09 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 17:43:09 +0200
Subject: Flash roots
In-Reply-To: <12f.484cf921.2e479fb8@aol.com>
References: <12f.484cf921.2e479fb8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A606B0B0-E951-11D8-BEE5-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Andrew,

>
> In a message dated 8/8/04 2:22:57 AM, 
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com
> writes:
>
>
>> Flash is a plug-in turned authoring environment.
>> -- Nope, I was one of the testers for Pre-flash and flash. Flash 
>> actually has 
> its roots in SmartDraw

It was "Future Wave SmartSketch" actually, and i may still have a 
version somewhere
here in my "archives"... :-)

I think it was in one of these Supercard 2.0 SUPER-upgrade-bundles 
looooooog time ago...
Along with "Elastic Reality" (sic!) and "Specular Logomotion 2.0", an 
EXTREMEMLY
good bargain, BTW ;-)

> and Freehand. But then thats some messy politics
> between Aldus/Altsys some 15yrs ago. Actionscript was response to 
> Hypertalk which
> Altsys hated. I tried very hard to get Hypertalk (via superacard) into 
> Altsys
> products but failed, sorry. Sadly, Actionscript has more books written 
> about it
> than Hypertalk ever will have.
>
> Andrew

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  8 11:45:57 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 08:45:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <BD3AB2EE.3794%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20040808154557.97493.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
> On 8/7/04 1:39 PM, "Cubist at aol.com" <Cubist at aol.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >    Now that I've got that out of my system: What
> things do you PC boys find
> > lacking in the PC implementation of Rev?
> 
> Here's a couple of goodies:
> 
> 1) Inability to use ActiveX or COM controls
> (although with Chipp's
> altBrowser you can use them in a web browser, but
> that's different).
> 
> 2) Inability to call the Windows API (something
> which almost every PC-based
> development environment is able to do - RealBasic,
> VB, etc.).
> 
> 3) Inability to call "normal" (i.e. not developed
> specifically for Rev)
> DLLs.
> 
> Until a couple of these items are addressed
> (specifically the API calls),
> Rev really can't swim in the "big pond". There are
> other more "niggly" items
> I can think of, but if these three were implemented,
> we could use those
> avenues to deal with those situations. For example:
> 
> - Displaying notification icons (the ballooon in the
> system tray)
> 
> - Being able to create new registry keys in the
> Windows registry
> 
> - Ability to call VBScript as easily as AppleScript
> ("do <script> as
> VBScript")
> 
> You get the idea...
> 
> Ken Ray
> 

I agree with Ken that a bit of catching up should be
done on the Windows side, though one can't say the
attention has only gone to Mac lately : 2.2 brought
WinXP theme support, 2.5 will update the look and feel
for Linux ; but there are a number of items that the
Revolution team might want to address to lure more
people in, and that the above list represents the most
frequently asked questions when you try and convince
someone to give Revolution a whirl, especially when
they've cobbled together a collection of ActiveX's.
It's not good enough to be a better cross-platform
tool than RB and Java ; people expect their tool to be
a first-class citizen on every platform so they can
compete. But I am confident that when
platform-specific issues are addressed, mucht thought
will go into implementing a broader solution. After
all, being above platforms allows an eagle-eye
overview...

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
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From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  8 11:58:46 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 08:58:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
In-Reply-To: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20040808155846.97413.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
> I was chatting with one of my Java buddies this
> evening about this 
> discussion and he pointed out something that is
> important to keep in 
> mind as well.
> 
> If small developers want or need to create software
> for multiple 
> platforms, it is crucial that they not be expected
> to maintain multiple 
> code bases to do so. To the extent that the toolset
> they use supports 
> OS-specific features and these features are
> incorporated, they end up 
> with a situation where they have to maintain
> multiple code bases or, in 
> the not-less-unattractive alternative, incorporate
> lots of 
> platform-checking conditional code.
> 
> This kind of thing can kill a small developer.
> 

Well, as someone who has used FoxPro in a
cross-platform manner, I can attest that it's not
always easy to accomplish and that some tools are
better than others. I've always ended up with a
mixture of platformspecific code and manual tweaks to
the layout after the migrator tools were done.
Revolution is a lot quicker and far better than the
FoxPro transporter has ever been (even after a
colleague and I hacked it into a much better tool than
delivered by the MS-boys).
But I do wish it were easier to say "this collection
of properties is platform-specific" and "the text and
htmltext properties language-specific" and have one
profile-system to handle it without having to create 8
profiles to manage 2 platforms and 4 languages.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
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From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  8 12:07:53 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 09:07:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <BD3B1131.3811%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20040808160753.77496.qmail@web60510.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
> On 8/7/04 10:57 PM, "Chipp Walters"
> <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
> 
> > I take both InfoWorld and EWeek. Both have had
> multiple articles about
> > the 'disenfranchisment' (is that a word?) of VB
> developers with .NET
> 
> This is more I think about VB developers not wanting
> to go to .NET because
> it represents a major paradigm shift for them. (BTW:
> I'm one of them. ;-)
> 
> > And you know the last version of VB before .NET
> will soon no longer
> > be supported.
> 
> Well, I know that Microsoft at some point will stop
> supporting VB 6 and only
> support VB.NET.
>  
> > The latest I've heard from Chris, who stays on top
> of this stuff, is
> > that to use the more advanced features in .NET,
> you'll have to use C#.
> 
> Well that's true. Although it seems that a number of
> people still think
> VB.NET will be supported in Longhorn, although that
> will probably strand us
> VB 6 developers if they don't allow for support of
> VB 6 apps in Longhorn.
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> 

I've been taking VB.NET as evening classes, and I must
say it's pretty good actually ; of course I had only
dabbled with VB6 in the past so I didn't have the
re-learning curve ; to me it was just learning a
language like C++ and looking at a framework like the
Think Class Library.
The key thing is that in the .NET environment, Basic
is just a programming language with only a different
syntax from C#, but with access to all the same
commands and functions, so it is no longer a
second-rate programming language whoch forced you to
use Visual C++ to accomplish advanced tasks.
To give VB developers complete access, a lot of things
had to change, alienating older users. VB6 however, is
quite dead and this presents an opportunity -- we just
have to beat RealBasic to this potential audience. And
the best way to do that is to offer them all they're
used to, the most important being ActiveX components.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
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From Meitnik at aol.com  Sun Aug  8 12:18:49 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 12:18:49 EDT
Subject: flas roots, updated
Message-ID: <d4.134d257b.2e47ac69@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/8/04 12:03:40 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> 
> It roots in a product called FutureSplash Animator, which was written
> by a guy lived about 3 blocks from me in Toronto Canada. I used the
> betas of the original FutureSplash and used to call the dude at his
> house to provide feedback. It was a plug-in to allow vector graphics
> animation in web browsers. It had minimal scripting, but the drawing
> tools haven't changed much since Macromedia bought it from him.
> -- I was aware of Splash ,but not of the plugin part in its earilier history. 
I see now I came to it just as it was transformed into an app. I learned 
more. Thank you.
But 





From Meitnik at aol.com  Sun Aug  8 12:21:34 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 12:21:34 EDT
Subject: win/mac help notes...
Message-ID: <7d.55189328.2e47ad0e@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/8/04 12:03:40 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> 
> What did you have in mind?
> -- Volumes, reading and parsing
-- drapdrag of files at os level
-- windowing handling
are a few...

Andrew


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug  8 12:24:05 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 11:24:05 -0500
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <6B847930-E918-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BD3BBDD5.387E%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/8/04 3:53 AM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> 
> OS X has AppleScript and supports the OSA (Open Scripting
> Architecture). Windows has Windows Scripting Host (WSH) and I think
> also supports OSA. OSA lets you create systtem-level actions in a
> scripting tool like Perl or Python or Tcl.
> 
> So it might be feasible to have people who program in those scripting
> languages develop OSA modules that we could call from Rev?

Certainly that would be beneficial, but AFAIK Windows doesn't support OSA -
WSH is a totally different beast.

> (If this is irrational, chalk it up to the fact that it's 2 a.m. and my
> brain is at least partially fried.)

:-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  8 12:24:35 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 09:24:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Suppressing Save Dialogue - How do I do it?
In-Reply-To: <20040808153256.95239.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040808162435.34252.qmail@web60506.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- Jim Carwardine
> <JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com> wrote:
> > I went to find the Rev archives just now and
> > discovered that apparently they
> > are no longer available.  Is that true? 
> 
> If you mean Alex Rice's search cgi at mindlube.com ;
> yes that resource seems to have been retired ; I do
> hope someone at Runtime Revolution HQ talks to Alex
> to
> try and resurrect the service at the runrev.com
> website.
> 

Before anyone thinks the archives can no longer be
searched, you can still use a special Google search :
<http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com>

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug  8 12:37:39 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 11:37:39 -0500
Subject: Flash roots
In-Reply-To: <A71BA354-E950-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD3BC103.3886%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/8/04 10:24 AM, "Meitnik at aol.com" <Meitnik at aol.com> wrote:

> -- Nope, I was one of the testers for Pre-flash and flash. Flash actually has
> its roots in SmartDraw and Freehand.

On 8/8/04 10:36 AM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> It roots in a product called FutureSplash Animator, which was written
> by a guy lived about 3 blocks from me in Toronto Canada.

On 8/8/04 10:43 AM, "Klaus Major" <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

> It was "Future Wave SmartSketch" actually, and i may still have a
> version somewhere here in my "archives"... :-)

Actually, you're all right. (Although for Andrew's comment should have said
"competitor for SmartDraw and Freehand").

It was originally called "SmartSketch 95" (by Future Wave), which was
originally designed as a graphics program for pen computers. After doing
that, they wanted to make a run at the Windows and Mac market and saw
Illustrator and Freehand already in the space. So they turned it into an
animation product and it was reborn as "FutureSplash Animator". This was
then bought by Macromedia who changed the name to "Flash".

For the full story, you can go to:

http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/events/john_gay/page04.html


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Aug  8 12:41:04 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:41:04 -0600
Subject: imagedata problem
In-Reply-To: <c0.133e35bd.2e4781b4@aol.com>
References: <c0.133e35bd.2e4781b4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD655F96-E959-11D8-8A73-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 7:16 AM, FMoyer at aol.com wrote:

>>> Does anyone else have this experience? -- I'm trying to analyze the
>>> imagedata
>>> of a whole bunch of grayscale images.

> I'm using 2.2.1 and MacOSX.
>
> But I may be onto an answer -- could have more to do with something I
> probably did wrong in GraphicConverter. Except it still is puzzling 
> that the
> imagedata would be so obviously corrupt while the image looks fine.

See if you get good imageData the second access or after getting 'the 
text' of the image.  If so, use that as a workaround.  This sounds 
familiar.

Maybe you should bugzilla this, especially if you are willing to supply 
RunRev with an example image.  Check the image bugs; this might be 
there, but I think this is different.  I'm going to do a rash of image 
checks in the next beta, so if bugzilla is a bother, I'll look for this 
then.

I think I have seen Revolution gag on some gray PNG files and display a 
squished pink image.  Maybe some gray formats are a problem.

Dar Scott


From warren at howsoft.com  Sun Aug  8 13:01:17 2004
From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 14:01:17 -0300
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
Message-ID: <006701c47d6a$c2258260$0301a8c0@john>

On Aug 8, 2004, at 2:04 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> > > Not to throw water on your suggestion, but no, I don't think it would
> > > be
> > > viable (at least not as a permanent change to Rev), and here's the
> > > reason...
> > > the substituting of a stack with another stack would be disconcerting
> > > (to
> > > say the least) to experienced Rev developers. The reason is that they
> > > (and
> > > I) are too used to just being able to switch to browse tool to try
> > > something
> > > out. We are *empowered* by the single mode, rather than hampered.

Bob Warren wrote:

> > So whoever doesn't want it simply doesn't turn on the option..........
> > What I was suggesting was a permanent optional choice, not a permanent
> > change to a fixed mode that experienced users would not like.

Troy wrote:

> That said, Bob, if you think about it, YOU (simply by nature of having
> concepted it) could make a Rev plug-in which would allow you to have
> this capability within your own environment. It could consist of a
> single button which said "Test stack" which did the temp saving,
> switched to the browse tool, then when clicked again, loaded the temp
> stack and switched to the select tool.

> If you really need it, you could do it.

That was exactly what I had in mind, except that I am a complete beginner in
RR and I was a bit nervous about attempting such a thing as a first
programming effort. Also, I was hoping that others would also be interested
in this option. But what we have on one hand are the experienced MAC users
who appear to say "Don't muck around with OUR IDE" and on the other hand an
almost complete lack of VB programmers, new to RR, who would naturally be
more interested in such an option. So I have little choice. A plugin needs
to be my first attempt at Transcript programming, until such time as I can
appreciate the inner depths of the "persisting properties" characteristic.



From warren at howsoft.com  Sun Aug  8 13:08:47 2004
From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 14:08:47 -0300
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0408072027150.20390@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
	<013001c47cfb$1b0f4e80$0301a8c0@john>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0408080705050.29658@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <006801c47d6a$c3a7dca0$0301a8c0@john>

Dear Marty,

Please see answers below.
If you don't mind, I'll also post this to the list so that other members can
correct me if I am wrong. OK?

Regards,
Bob W.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Billingsley" <marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
To: "Bob Warren" <warren at howsoft.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Program Testing and Persistent Properties


> But I think I *am* missing something because I just don't get this
> discussion of "modeless".  The browse tool (the hand) is for running
> the program (the stack); the selection tool (the arrow) is for changing
> the program.  My 8th grade students don't have a problem with
> that.....maybe I'm making things too easy?

As far as I understand (because I am only a beginner in RR), the term
"modeless" refers to the type of window your stack is shown in. You can
close it, but you cannot re-size it or minimize it. If you use ONLY the
browse tool (the hand) which is for running the program (the stack), the
window you get is modal, which means that you CAN re-size or minimize it. As
you know, "modeless" is not available on the toolbar. You have to
select it in other places. The confusion arises (in my mind) because the
selection of the "modeless" property also runs the program, or stops me from
editing it. And the only way of editing it thereafter is to select the "top
level" option: clicking on the selection tool in the toolbar (the arrow)
doesn't help. But when you click on this top level option, you get a modal
window again and the modeless property disappears. So here is my confusion
(if you are still able to follow me). As far as I am concerned, a window
could be modal (or not), quite independent of whether it is being run for
test purposes or is in edit mode, just as in VB. In RR, to select "modeless"
ALSO means "RUN" (i.e. make editing impossible), except that you have no
indication of this on the toolbar, and as far as I can see this is totally
unnecessary.

I am perfectly prepared to believe that your 8th Grade students are smarter
than I am, which you didn't mean to imply, of course. But another big
difference is that they probably have no experience in VB which creates a
completely different set of expectancies.


> The arrow in Photoshop isn't actually all that different from the arrow in
> RR; it's what you work with when you want to move something around or
> resize it.  Of course, there's no Photoshop equivalent of the browse tool,
> as there's nothing to "run".

No. But I was looking for "run" in RR, and for that reason I didn't consider
using what seemed to me to be a pure "move" button.

> One thing that *is* confusing is that when you build an app, you get the
> arrow instead of the hand when running the program.  (But my students only
> build an app as the very last project in our class, so they don't have to
> be confused for long -- the quarter ends:-)
>
> Of couse, I'm not running the latest RR (2.5b?) and there are apparently
> some cursor changes in that, so perhaps that's what y'all are talking
> about.

The others perhaps, but not me.

> Still confused,
>   - marty



From jhurley at infostations.com  Sun Aug  8 13:27:06 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:27:06 -0700
Subject: First update for vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040808160007.5033B930105@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040808160007.5033B930105@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06110400bd3c0d93553b@[69.19.168.122]>

>
>--- Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
>(snip)
>  > Another small point I noticed.
>>
>>  My graphic was named "rainbow" and so the *short*
>>  name did not
>>  contain the word "graphic." So I just changed the
>>  code line:
>>
>>	if the short name of control i contains "graphic"
>>
>>  to
>>
>>	if the name of control i contains "graphic"
>>
>
>Hi Jim and Alejandro,
>
>This part of the code would even fire for images that
>just happened to have a name like "silly graphics" ;
>it is best to check word 1 of the long name of control
>i.
>
>Just something that came to mind as I was catching up
>on use-rev mail -- keep up the great work :-)
>
>Jan Schenkel.
>


Jan,

Right you are!

Word 1 of "the name" or "the long name" tells you what the control 
type is. I ran into the problem you mention just yesterday when I 
found I had a FIELD named "graphic data". Needless to say, the 
converter choked on this.

We all owe Alejandro a big debt of gratitude for this utility. 
Finally we can export graphic objects out of RR--this was the 
facility I missed most from SuperCard.

If we had a list of the  "Run Rev Utility Contributor of the Year" 
award, I would nominate Al for consideration. I'm sure the list of 
nominees would be long, since we all have such different needs.

Jim

From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sun Aug  8 13:56:16 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 10:56:16 -0700
Subject: teacher needs
In-Reply-To: <000e01c47c82$3a79a5a0$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <BD3BB74F.6CFB%moe2@shaw.ca>


hi Steve

what is the activity of each of the clubs?

what is one teacher need that is difficult to solve with RR?

moe 

> 
> ... I have sucessfully produced 3 special apps for clubs,
> all being used actively and appreciated, but it never seems to
> deliver what I need to use it for ... for my wifes 'teacher' needs.
> 
> Steve


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Aug  8 14:36:57 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:36:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: cross platform info
In-Reply-To: <45.128fa47a.2e47a0d4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408081136360.23263-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Good idea!

Judy

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

> > This kind of thing can kill a small developer.
> > -- um, whats killing is not finding all the small stuff that is need to make
> the crossplatform stuff work. I would like to see RR docs have a full section
> on win/mac issuses explained and how to be handled. Why dont the webnotes be
> fulled out to teach newibies whats the teething points for crossplatform
> support are.


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Aug  8 14:38:20 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:38:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: cross platform info
In-Reply-To: <4116477A.9040806@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408081137120.23263-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Well, the basics such as fonts and font sizes (and how to get around the
xplat font issue such as 'make it a graphic if you don't want to fiddle
with it endlessly')... media format types (ala a recent question about
sound files)...

Judy

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> That's a vast subject, and will vary from app to app.
>
> What did you have in mind?


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Aug  8 14:42:32 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: teacher needs
In-Reply-To: <BD3BB74F.6CFB%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408081142100.23263-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Yes, I'm interested in hearing this as well...

Judy

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:

> what is one teacher need that is difficult to solve with RR?


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Aug  8 15:29:26 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:29:26 +0200
Subject: cross platform info
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408081137120.23263-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEDKGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


And dont forget backpatterns sizes...
icon sizes?

If you work with shells in RR you also have to transform
the / for the \ in  the paths. RR understands all three though.




> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Judy Perry
> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 20:38
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: cross platform info
> 
> 
> Well, the basics such as fonts and font sizes (and how to get around the
> xplat font issue such as 'make it a graphic if you don't want to fiddle
> with it endlessly')... media format types (ala a recent question about
> sound files)...
> 
> Judy
> 
> On Sun, 8 Aug 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
> > That's a vast subject, and will vary from app to app.
> >
> > What did you have in mind?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  8 16:30:50 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 13:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The sky is falling...
In-Reply-To: <20040808094136.9A611930102@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040808203050.58212.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com>

"MisterX" wrote:
 
> Another interesting idea would be to allow RR to
> compile ActiveX 
> controls and or DLLs for the windoze plat. Wouldn't
> it?

Looks like this page could provide some ideas
about the plug-ins available:

http://www.neosoftware.com/nbw1.html

For example:

NeoBookDX 1.1: This exciting new plug-in adds the 
advanced multimedia capabilities of Microsoft's 
DirectX technology to NeoBook 4

NeoBookPDF 1.0a: Use this plug-in to display Adobe 
Acrobat Reader PDF documents inside your NeoBook 4 
publications

tmPDF
Export NeoBook pages as Adobe Acrobat compatible
PDF files.

tmHostExe
Host external EXEs inside your NeoBook publications.
With tmHostExe you can configure external 
applications to run inside a rectangle within NeoBook

ActiveXToNeoBook (ATN) Wizard allows you to convert 
virtually any ActiveX control into a ready to use 
NeoBook Plug-in - No Programming required.

Flash Plug-In allows you to easily add support for 
Macromedia Flash files to your NeoBook publications.

OzTalker series: Bring your NeoBook applications to
life with Text to Speech using the ever popular 
MsAgents the OzTalker series. Supports Genie, Merlin 
the magician, Rooby the robot & Peedy the parrot. You 
can even combine two characters at the same time for
twice the fun with our combo series. Shareware.

Cult3D: This plug-in, a joint development of Cycore
and NeoSoft, allows users of Cycore's Cult3D software 
to incorporate 3D objects into NeoBook publications.

etc,etc,etc...

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 18:11:32 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 15:11:32 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <4115C3CD.4000601@chipp.com>
References: <00e001c47cf3$15e73e70$0301a8c0@john>
	<59DEAA34-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4115C3CD.4000601@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <4116A514.4070908@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> I reiterate what I said earlier today in this very interesting 
>> discussion. I do not believe Rev has any serious chance of making 
>> significant inroads into the professional development community on ANY 
>> platform, and certainly not on Windows or (moreso?) on *nix. It will 
>> always be a product aimed at hobbyist and inventive user class 
>> developers who do not write code for a living but who have real 
>> problems to solve at work or at home.
> 
> Depends on what you mean by 'significant inroads.' If it means making 
> enough to provide a return to shareholders and keep the product alive 
> and well, then I beg to disagree. If it means competing head to head 
> with MS products then I agree. As you rightly pointed out earlier, even 
> Borland can't compete w/ MS, but does that make them unsuccessful?

If Borland is a joke, with a sustained customer base at least an order 
of magnitude larger than Rev's it would make Rev the punchline.

I prefer not to see it so dimly.

There is evidently room for many players in the dev tools arena, on all 
platforms.  The computing revolution has barely begun, and everything is 
still in flux:  Windows marketshare is in decline, Linux is the 
fastest-growing OS, Mac OS is holding steady and there's always the 
chance Apple may one day take an interest in increasing marketshare.

The good thing is that it seems RunRev is hearing all sides of this 
debate, and handling them all positively:

Historically there has indeed been a Mac-centricity to the product 
because, as has been noted, that's where the low-hanging fruit was.

In v2.2 XP native appearances took the product a huge leap forward for 
that OS, and in v2.5 it seems they're doing the same for Linux.

While it may remain debatable whether a small business can adequately 
penetrate two very different markets simultaneously, to their credit 
RunRev has rebranded the hobbyist product to more clearly distinguish it 
from the current award-winning professional dev tool.

There may be an argument for spinning the pro tools out into a separate 
business unit to avoid dillution of resources, putting day-to-day 
management of the pro product line in the hands of those who remain 
excited by the potential there.  But that may not be necessary so long 
as the product managers for each are given reasonable budgets and 
sufficient autonomy to respond to the radically different challenges 
each market requires.

So from where I sit, yes, there are many details to be decided, and of 
course the proof will be in the pudding:  all the talk here about what's 
best will either be validated or invalidated when we see where the 
numbers fall this time next year.

But overall, the general plan seems to be a reasonably healthy attempt 
to capture both ends of the market, and it is appears there is some 
effort toward providing a thoughtful balance of resources to address the 
needs of developers using each OS proportionate to sales.

One thing I know about Kevin is that he's a bit of an info-junkie:  if 
he sees a tilt in interest from users of non-Mac OSes I feel confident 
he'll push those platform-specific enhancements even more quickly than 
the current good clip.  While MetaCard was born on UNIX, in v2.5 it 
finally looks pretty there.  I'm sure there's more to come....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 18:15:44 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 15:15:44 -0700
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
In-Reply-To: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4116A610.60202@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> If small developers want or need to create software for multiple 
> platforms, it is crucial that they not be expected to maintain multiple 
> code bases to do so. To the extent that the toolset they use supports 
> OS-specific features and these features are incorporated, they end up 
> with a situation where they have to maintain multiple code bases or, in 
> the not-less-unattractive alternative, incorporate lots of 
> platform-checking conditional code.
> 
> This kind of thing can kill a small developer.

Agreed. Fortunately Rev insulates most platform-specific requirements 
from the developer, with the exception of irreconcilable 
incompatibilities like AppleScript (essential for Mac OS but absent from 
Win) and the Registry (essential for Win but absent from Mac).

All in all most of the work I do has less than 2% platform-specific code.

Rev is very much like a virtual machine, with the extra benefit that you 
can step outside the sandbox as needed, giving you the best of both worlds.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 18:24:26 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 15:24:26 -0700
Subject: win/mac help notes...
In-Reply-To: <7d.55189328.2e47ad0e@aol.com>
References: <7d.55189328.2e47ad0e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4116A81A.1050908@fourthworld.com>

Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/8/04 12:03:40 PM, 
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:
> 
>>What did you have in mind?
> -- Volumes, reading and parsing 
> -- drapdrag of files at os level
> -- windowing handling

What OS-specific differences are there on these that should be called 
out in the docs?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Aug  8 18:24:37 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:24:37 -0600
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
In-Reply-To: <4116A610.60202@fourthworld.com>
References: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4116A610.60202@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BBE80C9A-E989-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 4:15 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> All in all most of the work I do has less than 2% platform-specific 
> code.

But what percentage of the work is directed toward that 2%?

Dar Scott



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 18:40:47 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 15:40:47 -0700
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <5CEF9DCC-E8C8-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <BD3AB828.379B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<5CEF9DCC-E8C8-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4116ABEF.20507@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> On Aug 7, 2004, at 2:47 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>> *Here* is where Rev (and other tools of its ilk) *can* make inroads. All
>> that it takes is enough compelling evidence that RunRev isn't going
>> anywhere, that the underlying engine has been around for a decade, and 
>> that
>> it is the most efficient way to develop the application/product they 
>> want,
>> and it's a much higher chance that said company will allow for a tool 
>> like
>> Rev to be used.
> 
> I think you're right that the chances of getting the  small to medium 
> sized company to adopt Rev is much higher than that of a corporation. 
> But it's still not very high, IMNSHO.

That's solveable.

The inherent value proposition for Rev as a pro development tool is 
demonstrably high, and after 14 years there are sufficient examples to 
make a compelling case.

If the case is not immediately compelling today, what changes could be 
made at the RunRev site and lesser marketing materials to make the value 
more self-evident?

One area that has been historically weak at the various incarnations of 
the RunRev site is demonstrating the scope of the "infrastructure": 
there has not been (nor is there currently) a page devoted to 
Conferences and Events, where folks can see that RunRev has acquired an 
audience sufficient to have three conferences this year alone, with 
several regional users groups starting up.

Beyond that, what other things might help make the value of choosing Rev 
more self-evident?

The value's there.  The problem isn't the tool, it's communicating what 
the tool has already accomplished.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 18:46:50 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 15:46:50 -0700
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
In-Reply-To: <BBE80C9A-E989-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4116A610.60202@fourthworld.com>
	<BBE80C9A-E989-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4116AD5A.2010208@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> On Aug 8, 2004, at 4:15 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> All in all most of the work I do has less than 2% platform-specific code.
>  
> But what percentage of the work is directed toward that 2%?

For me, far less than 2%:  I wrote most of what I need years ago, and 
just "start using" a common library whenever I need it.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Aug  8 18:57:50 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:57:50 -0600
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
In-Reply-To: <4116AD5A.2010208@fourthworld.com>
References: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4116A610.60202@fourthworld.com>
	<BBE80C9A-E989-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4116AD5A.2010208@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5F912DE6-E98E-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 4:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> For me, far less than 2%:  I wrote most of what I need years ago, and 
> just "start using" a common library whenever I need it.

Does that take care of the problem that there is no available font that 
works the same on both Windows and OS X?

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 19:08:19 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 16:08:19 -0700
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
In-Reply-To: <5F912DE6-E98E-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4116A610.60202@fourthworld.com>
	<BBE80C9A-E989-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4116AD5A.2010208@fourthworld.com>
	<5F912DE6-E98E-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4116B263.3010302@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> 
> On Aug 8, 2004, at 4:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> For me, far less than 2%:  I wrote most of what I need years ago, and 
>> just "start using" a common library whenever I need it.
> 
> 
> Does that take care of the problem that there is no available font that 
> works the same on both Windows and OS X?

I rarely make "multimedia" apps that use one font on all platforms.  For 
production apps it's far better to use the font specified by the target 
HIG....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Aug  8 19:13:47 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 17:13:47 -0600
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
In-Reply-To: <4116B263.3010302@fourthworld.com>
References: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4116A610.60202@fourthworld.com>
	<BBE80C9A-E989-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4116AD5A.2010208@fourthworld.com>
	<5F912DE6-E98E-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4116B263.3010302@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <99EA2BAE-E990-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 5:08 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> Does that take care of the problem that there is no available font 
>> that works the same on both Windows and OS X?
>
> I rarely make "multimedia" apps that use one font on all platforms.  
> For production apps it's far better to use the font specified by the 
> target HIG....

Then text can extend beyond the right or bottom of the field.  Do you 
tweak the font size until text fits?  Do you do something special for 
objects that float to the left of a paragraph?

Dar Scott


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Sun Aug  8 19:17:34 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 19:17:34 -0400
Subject: Number format for money
In-Reply-To: <20040808043218.BEB519300E8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD3C2CCE.2383%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

set the numberFormat of tBondAmount to "#.00"

Only works for scroll bars (weird that it is so specialized).

How do you take a number like 10000000.00 that is in the variable
tBondAmount and make it look like $100,000,000.00 ??

Bill

-- thanks in adavance!



From alex at harryscollar.com  Sun Aug  8 21:30:05 2004
From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 11:30:05 +1000
Subject: Quick Rev <=> Flash review
In-Reply-To: <20040808160007.5033B930105@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040808160007.5033B930105@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040809101719.02694918@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>

At 02:00 AM 9/08/2004, you wrote:
>products but failed, sorry. Sadly, Actionscript has more books written 
>about it
>than Hypertalk ever will have.
>
>Andrew

Just recently bought Macromedia's Flash MX 2004 Pro because I wanted to 
create a xplat hybrid system for a client which used a full-screen flash 
projector for the main interface (because anti-aliased vector graphics 
rule) and rev for everything else (database, local / server file ops etc). 
Halfway through the project now..

Anyway here are my observations...

Flash has certainly come along way in its last 2 incarnations. I've used 
and taught flash for a number of years now and as a software engineer 
thought it was fun and had a lot of potential.... just the language needed 
to mature.. and it has, fortunately .. not as easy as our favorite 
xtalk/transcript but that's javascript/actionscript for ya. Classes seem 
more useful in a language like actionscript :)
I was also impressed by the number of new built-in & 3rd-party drop-in 
components. It now has datagrids / treelists etc .. of course all this is 
well-presented by some smick macromedia propaganda, see 
http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/productinfo/features/brz_tour/
now how come the runrev team can't look as slick ;-)

The development IDE is much better & having more control over your vector 
canvas was great (actionscript now has a draw line command!). Flash is far 
from perfect when trying to integrate it with anything non-macromedia (like 
microsoft and apple). Anyway after a few days hacking the old mchttpd stack 
I've ended up with my initial hybrid setup, with rev / flash happily 
talking semi-bidirectionally via tcp/ip. Next step is to get them talking 
xml and making use of the xupdate feature (anyone done this?.. I don't need 
it now but it could be handy in the future)

Both flash and rev still require kludges for certain platform-specific 
issues but these are [sometimes documented &] easily solved. There has been 
some talk about embedding activex controls into rev and this is certainly a 
good thing if you're ms-bound but I think most of us chose mc / rev because 
of it's xplat capabilities and this project certainly proved to me that it 
was only possible because rev is really good at the basic stuff and if it 
can keep doing that and improving then we all benefit.

regards
alex 


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Aug  8 21:57:59 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:57:59 -0300
Subject: My 2 Cents (Re: Quick Rev <=> Flash review)
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040809101719.02694918@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <20040808160007.5033B930105@mail.runrev.com>
	<6.1.2.0.0.20040809101719.02694918@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <8A191DA9-E9A7-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>



Alex et All,

I do think you folks are comparing things that don't really mix...  
Flash and Rev are not simillar apps or competitors... Flash is a  
interactive multimida creation app, thats all. Try do something else,  
you loose... Rev is a Development Platform, you can build multimidia  
apps, but you can do a lot more. You should not use flash to create  
software in the sense of softwares like the ones we create here like  
database netsavvy software and the likes... It's easy to be all bells  
and whistles when your aim is narrow, when you're aiming big, like Rev  
is, then your job is harder...

I think this comparisions are like mixing oranges and shoes.
one goes: "oranges are pretty!"
the other: "my shoes take me everywhere."
one goes: "I can step on my oranges too... and they are prettier..."

understand? Flash will not allow you thru the possibilities that Rev  
does, and Rev is very excellent in many points. When you ever thought  
you could create an app that will query MySQL server on the net, grab  
data and display it will nice QT transitions in both mac and win, in  
couple hours.... That's powerfull.

cheers
andre

On Aug 8, 2004, at 10:30 PM, Alex Shaw wrote:

> At 02:00 AM 9/08/2004, you wrote:
>> products but failed, sorry. Sadly, Actionscript has more books  
>> written about it
>> than Hypertalk ever will have.
>>
>> Andrew
>
> Just recently bought Macromedia's Flash MX 2004 Pro because I wanted  
> to create a xplat hybrid system for a client which used a full-screen  
> flash projector for the main interface (because anti-aliased vector  
> graphics rule) and rev for everything else (database, local / server  
> file ops etc). Halfway through the project now..
>
> Anyway here are my observations...
>
> Flash has certainly come along way in its last 2 incarnations. I've  
> used and taught flash for a number of years now and as a software  
> engineer thought it was fun and had a lot of potential.... just the  
> language needed to mature.. and it has, fortunately .. not as easy as  
> our favorite xtalk/transcript but that's javascript/actionscript for  
> ya. Classes seem more useful in a language like actionscript :)
> I was also impressed by the number of new built-in & 3rd-party drop-in  
> components. It now has datagrids / treelists etc .. of course all this  
> is well-presented by some smick macromedia propaganda, see  
> http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/productinfo/features/ 
> brz_tour/
> now how come the runrev team can't look as slick ;-)
>
> The development IDE is much better & having more control over your  
> vector canvas was great (actionscript now has a draw line command!).  
> Flash is far from perfect when trying to integrate it with anything  
> non-macromedia (like microsoft and apple). Anyway after a few days  
> hacking the old mchttpd stack I've ended up with my initial hybrid  
> setup, with rev / flash happily talking semi-bidirectionally via  
> tcp/ip. Next step is to get them talking xml and making use of the  
> xupdate feature (anyone done this?.. I don't need it now but it could  
> be handy in the future)
>
> Both flash and rev still require kludges for certain platform-specific  
> issues but these are [sometimes documented &] easily solved. There has  
> been some talk about embedding activex controls into rev and this is  
> certainly a good thing if you're ms-bound but I think most of us chose  
> mc / rev because of it's xplat capabilities and this project certainly  
> proved to me that it was only possible because rev is really good at  
> the basic stuff and if it can keep doing that and improving then we  
> all benefit.
>
> regards
> alex
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From matt.denton at limelight.com.au  Sun Aug  8 22:16:52 2004
From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:16:52 +1000
Subject: Target and me.  Target not the correct value
In-Reply-To: <20040808223823.AC06593005F@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040808223823.AC06593005F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2D9FEB0F-E9AA-11D8-8C5B-000A95A05246@limelight.com.au>

Hey ho.

Just found a small discrepancy: the 'me' function will always return 
the correct object, however 'the target' will only return the name of 
the object.  This becomes an issue if you, like me, sometimes duplicate 
an object and forget to give it a unique name.  Create a button, put 
this script in it:
	
on closeField
   put the value of me
end closeField

Now duplicate (or option-drag) a copy.  Change text in the field, 
notice the correct values are reported back to the msg window. Now 
change BOTH scripts to:

on closeField
   put the value of the target
end closeField

... this reports incorrectly, only reporting 1 field (the first found 
with the name 'Field 1').  I kinda remember in my dim past that 
HyperCard would always return the target value correctly, even with 
object name duplication?

Confusingly, just 'target' (no 'the') returns the value correctly; 'the 
value of the target' doesn't when there is a duplicate name.  Small, 
simple, but had me stumped for a bit.  As you might expect, 'put the 
value of (long ID of the target)' works.  Of course avoiding 
duplication is good practice; not trusting 'the target' is safest if 
you can't guarantee unique field/group/button etc names.

I'd like to see 'the target' use the long ID for object referencing, 
but use the name of the target (as it does now) when used for display.  
Is that possible?  Anyone agree?

Bye

M@
Matt


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  8 22:27:18 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:27:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: First update for vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040808160007.5033B930105@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040809022718.70549.qmail@web40506.mail.yahoo.com>

on Sun, 8 Aug 2004 
Jan Schenkel wrote:
> Hi Jim and Alejandro,
> 
> This part of the code would even fire for images
> that just happened to have a name like "silly 
> graphics" ; it is best to check word 1 of the long 
> name of control i.

Good point, Jan 
I'll add this to next version
of the code. :-)

> keep up the great work :-)

Thanks a lot Jan. I hope that you or
one of the pros in this list could help
with the code to save bitmap images as pdf.

Roger Eller send me yesterday a pdf that he
wrote from a text editor, so i hope that soon
we could be using his code: text2pdf.

I have changed the template for the pdf,
so now it does not produce an error if
you try to save it from Acrobat 5.

Now, Ilustrator 10 opens the pdf without
problems. Could you believe that the original
template lacks only one line to open without
problems?... A single line.

But it was needed to rewrite the code to
find the offsets...

I still have problems with ascii85 encoding,
because some negative numbers are produced while
converting long binary numbers in decimal.

Could Dar Scott help with this task? ;-)

and seems that the gzip produced by the compress
function is not liked by Acrobat, that is able
to decode gzip with the FlateDecode filter.
I hope to be wrong on this assumption. I'll really
like to be wrong. Could anyone test this too?

To test for gzip compatibility in Acrobat,
Save as pdf a single small image from an application,
like open office, that could save compressed
pdf with flateencode (or zip) compression.

Then, save the same image compressed as gzip to
a binary file from RR/MC.

In a text editor that could open binary
files (like boxer or bbedit)compare
the compressed strings as gzip or Flate encoded,
from the pdf and the RR/MC binary file.

If you do, then, please, post the results 
to this list. 

I really like to be wrong on the results
i'm seeing on my side.

Tomorrow, i'll post a new vector2pdf
stack with the fixes available until now.

Thanks a lot for your interest in this
project!

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 22:35:25 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 19:35:25 -0700
Subject: Target and me.  Target not the correct value
In-Reply-To: <2D9FEB0F-E9AA-11D8-8C5B-000A95A05246@limelight.com.au>
References: <20040808223823.AC06593005F@mail.runrev.com>
	<2D9FEB0F-E9AA-11D8-8C5B-000A95A05246@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <4116E2ED.5090207@fourthworld.com>

Matt Denton wrote:
> Hey ho.
> 
> Just found a small discrepancy: the 'me' function will always return the 
> correct object, however 'the target' will only return the name of the 
> object.  This becomes an issue if you, like me, sometimes duplicate an 
> object and forget to give it a unique name.  Create a button, put this 
> script in it:
>     
> on closeField
>   put the value of me
> end closeField
> 
> Now duplicate (or option-drag) a copy.  Change text in the field, notice 
> the correct values are reported back to the msg window. Now change BOTH 
> scripts to:
> 
> on closeField
>   put the value of the target
> end closeField
> 
> ... this reports incorrectly, only reporting 1 field (the first found 
> with the name 'Field 1').  I kinda remember in my dim past that 
> HyperCard would always return the target value correctly, even with 
> object name duplication?
> 
> Confusingly, just 'target' (no 'the') returns the value correctly; 'the 
> value of the target' doesn't when there is a duplicate name.  Small, 
> simple, but had me stumped for a bit.  As you might expect, 'put the 
> value of (long ID of the target)' works.  Of course avoiding duplication 
> is good practice; not trusting 'the target' is safest if you can't 
> guarantee unique field/group/button etc names.
> 
> I'd like to see 'the target' use the long ID for object referencing, but 
> use the name of the target (as it does now) when used for display.  Is 
> that possible?  Anyone agree?

I agree, but I think what we're seeing here is something.

What happens if you change the name of the fields?

The phrase "field 1" is itself a valid object descriptor, so apply the 
value function to that may be what's tripping you up.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 22:44:02 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 19:44:02 -0700
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
In-Reply-To: <99EA2BAE-E990-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4116A610.60202@fourthworld.com>
	<BBE80C9A-E989-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4116AD5A.2010208@fourthworld.com>
	<5F912DE6-E98E-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4116B263.3010302@fourthworld.com>
	<99EA2BAE-E990-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4116E4F2.7010305@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> 
> On Aug 8, 2004, at 5:08 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>>> Does that take care of the problem that there is no available font 
>>> that works the same on both Windows and OS X?
>>
>> I rarely make "multimedia" apps that use one font on all platforms.  
>> For production apps it's far better to use the font specified by the 
>> target HIG....
> 
> Then text can extend beyond the right or bottom of the field.  Do you 
> tweak the font size until text fits?  Do you do something special for 
> objects that float to the left of a paragraph?

Most text in the stuff I build tends to be of three types:

- Labels for fields or other controls
   I usually have those to the left of the entry field, and
   right-aligned with a little extra space at the left to
   account for differences in font metrics.

- Blocks of stack text
   Usually just a couple lines, often used for descriptions.
   Sometimes I'll put in my own hard returns if I'm picky about
   the flow of wording.  I leave a little extra space on these
   too.

- Scrolling text
   Used for Help fields and other detailed descriptions, and
   since it scrolls it takes care of itself.

On very rare occasions I'll use an image of text to ensure it displays 
precisely.  For example, each of the main WebMerge tabs have an 
explanation of what the controls on that tab do; space was limited and 
it had to be very clear, so I did the text once just the way I wanted it 
and then screen-grabbed it, hid the field, and put the image where the 
field had been.  I don't do that often, but when precise control is 
needed it's the surest bet.

Fortunately very few things require such precision. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  8 22:59:41 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Flash roots
In-Reply-To: <20040808223823.659AD930110@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040809025942.87139.qmail@web40503.mail.yahoo.com>

on Sun, 08 Aug 2004 11:37:39 -0500
Ken Ray wrote:

>For the full story, you can go to:

>http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/events/
>john_gay/page04.html

And here too:

<http://www.flashmagazine.com/html/413.htm>
_http://www.flashmagazine.com/html/413.htm_

On 8/8/04 10:36 AM, "Troy Rollins"
<troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> It roots in a product called FutureSplash Animator, 
> which was written by a guy lived about 3 blocks 
> from me in Toronto Canada.

Troy, you knew in person to Mr. Jonathan Gay,
before he was rich and famous! ;-)

When could we see an interview with Scott Raney? 

I imagine Scott Raney like a big men with a big beard.

Like Jerry Garcia, the legendary guitarrist. :-)

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  8 23:12:31 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 20:12:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: First update for vector to pdf
In-Reply-To: <20040808223823.659AD930110@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040809031231.92379.qmail@web40513.mail.yahoo.com>

on Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:27:06 -0700
Jim Hurley wrote:

> We all owe Alejandro a big debt of gratitude for 
> this utility. 

Actually is my pleasure to give something back,
to all of you who freely share your knowledge
with all the developers.

> Finally we can export graphic objects out of RR--
> this was the facility I missed most from SuperCard.

i'll like that a SuperCard developer port this code
to his platform. Do you some SuperCard developers
that will be interested in using this code in
their programs? In this way, with more people
working in the same project, faster and better
evolves the code.

> If we had a list of the 
>"Run Rev Utility Contributor of the Year" 

i'll accept a nomination but only for 
"Run Rev Utility Contributor of the WEEK" ;-)

Remember that you could help anytime.
This code is far from finished.
I foresee that implementing most of the
pdf specs will take a lot of time and trials.

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug  8 23:30:05 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 22:30:05 -0500
Subject: Number format for money
In-Reply-To: <BD3C2CCE.2383%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <BD3C59ED.38EA%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/8/04 6:17 PM, "Bill" <bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote:

> set the numberFormat of tBondAmount to "#.00"
> 
> Only works for scroll bars (weird that it is so specialized).
> 
> How do you take a number like 10000000.00 that is in the variable
> tBondAmount and make it look like $100,000,000.00 ??

Well, you can't do it directly with numberFormat. You need to do something
like this:

on mouseUp
  ask "Enter a value:"
  if it <> "" then
    put ConvertToDollars(it)
  end if
end mouseUp

function ConvertToDollars pAmt
  split pAmt by "."
   -- pAmt[1] contains the dollars, pAmt[2] contains the cents
  if pAmt[2] = "" then put "00" into pAmt[2]
  if length(pAmt[2]) = 1 then put "0" after pAmt[2]
  
  put trunc(length(pAmt[1])/3) into tNumLoops
  put "" into tDollars
  repeat tNumLoops
    put "," & char -3 to -1 of pAmt[1] before tDollars
    delete char -3 to -1 of pAmt[1]
  end repeat

  put pAmt[1] & tDollars & "." & pAmt[2] into tRetVal
  -- remove a preceding comma if an even multiple of 3
  if char 1 of tRetVal = "," then delete char 1 of tRetVal

  return "$" & tRetVal
end ConvertToDollars

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug  8 23:33:14 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:33:14 -0400
Subject: Flash roots
In-Reply-To: <20040809025942.87139.qmail@web40503.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040809025942.87139.qmail@web40503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D8A55C49-E9B4-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 10:59 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> Troy, you knew in person to Mr. Jonathan Gay,
> before he was rich and famous! ;-)

That's the guy. I had started with a FutureSplash beta, as I was in 
charge of an R&D multimedia department. I called him the first time for 
tech support at like 7 at night, only to find out that I was calling 
his house, a few blocks away from mine. He and I had a lot of phone 
conversations in the ensuing months, and we were one of the first to 
use FutureSplash in a big screen presentation for a major soft drink 
company. I thought the drawing techniques in that package were so 
original...

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug  8 23:51:44 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:51:44 -0700
Subject: Flash roots
In-Reply-To: <D8A55C49-E9B4-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <20040809025942.87139.qmail@web40503.mail.yahoo.com>
	<D8A55C49-E9B4-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <4116F4D0.7090202@fourthworld.com>


Where Flash roots and xTalk collide:

Future Splash's investor was Charlie Jackson, founder of Silicon Beach 
Software, SuperCard's original publisher.

It's a small world after all...

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Aug  9 00:00:29 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:00:29 -0700
Subject: Quick Rev <=> Flash review
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040809101719.02694918@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <20040808160007.5033B930105@mail.runrev.com>
	<6.1.2.0.0.20040809101719.02694918@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <A6E27768-E9B8-11D8-B7D2-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

I'd be interested in knowing how you get the Flash app and the Rev app  
to talk to each other.

Dan

On Aug 8, 2004, at 6:30 PM, Alex Shaw wrote:

> At 02:00 AM 9/08/2004, you wrote:
>> products but failed, sorry. Sadly, Actionscript has more books  
>> written about it
>> than Hypertalk ever will have.
>>
>> Andrew
>
> Just recently bought Macromedia's Flash MX 2004 Pro because I wanted  
> to create a xplat hybrid system for a client which used a full-screen  
> flash projector for the main interface (because anti-aliased vector  
> graphics rule) and rev for everything else (database, local / server  
> file ops etc). Halfway through the project now..
>
> Anyway here are my observations...
>
> Flash has certainly come along way in its last 2 incarnations. I've  
> used and taught flash for a number of years now and as a software  
> engineer thought it was fun and had a lot of potential.... just the  
> language needed to mature.. and it has, fortunately .. not as easy as  
> our favorite xtalk/transcript but that's javascript/actionscript for  
> ya. Classes seem more useful in a language like actionscript :)
> I was also impressed by the number of new built-in & 3rd-party drop-in  
> components. It now has datagrids / treelists etc .. of course all this  
> is well-presented by some smick macromedia propaganda, see  
> http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/productinfo/features/ 
> brz_tour/
> now how come the runrev team can't look as slick ;-)
>
> The development IDE is much better & having more control over your  
> vector canvas was great (actionscript now has a draw line command!).  
> Flash is far from perfect when trying to integrate it with anything  
> non-macromedia (like microsoft and apple). Anyway after a few days  
> hacking the old mchttpd stack I've ended up with my initial hybrid  
> setup, with rev / flash happily talking semi-bidirectionally via  
> tcp/ip. Next step is to get them talking xml and making use of the  
> xupdate feature (anyone done this?.. I don't need it now but it could  
> be handy in the future)
>
> Both flash and rev still require kludges for certain platform-specific  
> issues but these are [sometimes documented &] easily solved. There has  
> been some talk about embedding activex controls into rev and this is  
> certainly a good thing if you're ms-bound but I think most of us chose  
> mc / rev because of it's xplat capabilities and this project certainly  
> proved to me that it was only possible because rev is really good at  
> the basic stuff and if it can keep doing that and improving then we  
> all benefit.
>
> regards
> alex
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Aug  9 00:05:34 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:05:34 -0700
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <4116ABEF.20507@fourthworld.com>
References: <BD3AB828.379B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<5CEF9DCC-E8C8-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4116ABEF.20507@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5D2C64F8-E9B9-11D8-B7D2-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>


On Aug 8, 2004, at 3:40 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> One area that has been historically weak at the various incarnations 
> of the RunRev site is demonstrating the scope of the "infrastructure": 
> there has not been (nor is there currently) a page devoted to 
> Conferences and Events, where folks can see that RunRev has acquired 
> an audience sufficient to have three conferences this year alone, with 
> several regional users groups starting up.
>
Good point. I think this is a subset of the whole issue of how and why 
RunRev ought to promote the power of this community in the broader 
sense. I'd like to see a front-page link to a section of the site 
maintained by one or more users where we flat-out brag about this tool 
and what it can do, what we've done with it, what we know about that 
others have done, etc. Maybe we need to create an external site for 
this and get RunRev to link to it. We discussed something like this at 
the RMS in Monterey last month but so far nothing has happened as far 
as I know.

> Beyond that, what other things might help make the value of choosing 
> Rev more self-evident?
>
user contributions that are *apps* rather than dev tools and developer 
support, that solve real-world problems in interesting ways, that are 
open sourced so that newbies can open them, look at them, understand 
them, adapt them, and learn from them.

> The value's there.  The problem isn't the tool, it's communicating 
> what the tool has already accomplished.

Given that you're right -- and I'm not yet convinced you are -- then we 
need to band together as a community and make this case much, much 
stronger.

What we need is a special group of evangelists out promoting the crap 
out of this thing. Maybe RunRev can create something like the MS VIP 
program?

Dan


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug  9 00:16:00 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:16:00 -0500
Subject: Flash roots
In-Reply-To: <4116F4D0.7090202@fourthworld.com>
References: <20040809025942.87139.qmail@web40503.mail.yahoo.com>
	<D8A55C49-E9B4-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<4116F4D0.7090202@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4116FA80.50206@chipp.com>

SmartSketch was Charlie's first product after he sold the Silicon Beach 
products to Aldus. The original programmers were none other than the 
same ones who had worked on SuperPaint (bitmap and vector drawing 
package with 'Laserbits').

I was a frequent user of many Silicon Beach products and fortunate to 
have Charlie send me a pre-release copy of SmartSketch. It later became 
FutureSplash and then Flash. Certainly Charlie didn't know where it 
would end up before he sold it to Macromedia!

SmartSketch was one of the first cross-platform draw apps out there, and 
ingenious in the way it approached vector graphics as if they were bitmaps.

-Chipp

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> 
> Where Flash roots and xTalk collide:
> 
> Future Splash's investor was Charlie Jackson, founder of Silicon Beach 
> Software, SuperCard's original publisher.
> 
> It's a small world after all...
> 

From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug  9 00:31:37 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:31:37 -0500
Subject: Further on Platform Specificity
In-Reply-To: <99EA2BAE-E990-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <D4BF3350-E8E9-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<4116A610.60202@fourthworld.com>
	<BBE80C9A-E989-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4116AD5A.2010208@fourthworld.com>
	<5F912DE6-E98E-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4116B263.3010302@fourthworld.com>
	<99EA2BAE-E990-11D8-9DB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4116FE29.8090808@chipp.com>

Dar,

You can use 'profiles' in RR to accomodate for the various discrepencies 
in font size and type on the different platforms. Like Richard, I've 
'rolled my own' tools to do the same.

Basically, on startup, I check to see what platform there is, then get a 
list of controls which need platform-specific customizing. I then change 
the settings for each control (including rect and position).

I have a plugin which allows me to setup all of this automatically. It 
currently is not available, as I don't wish to provide support for it. 
But if you're interested, holler at me offlist and I'll send you a copy.

One more note. I tend to set the default font for all stacks to Tahoma. 
It's available on both Mac and PC and doesn't 'move around' as much. 
Plus, it anti-aliases very nice on both platforms. I've noticed Scott 
Rossi likes Verdana as well.

best,

Chipp

Dar Scott wrote:


> Then text can extend beyond the right or bottom of the field.  Do you 
> tweak the font size until text fits?  Do you do something special for 
> objects that float to the left of a paragraph?


From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Aug  9 01:28:00 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 01:28:00 -0400
Subject: Is being a good cross-platform tool good enough?
In-Reply-To: <20040808094136.9A611930102@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040808094136.9A611930102@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <E0B88458-E9C4-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

> Frank.....
>
> Pardon me, but this comment seemed a little strange to me. "Just
> another cross-platform tool"? What others are there? RealBasic has been
> mentioned. Maybe Director (though it's not for general-purpose apps).
>

Dan,

Let's say you've been hired to develop a cross-platform accounting 
system, and you present the spec to your client.  After reading it over 
they ask why features A, B and C are missing, and you respond with 
"well, no other cross-platform accounting system can do that".  Do you 
suppose you're going to get the project?  I doubt it, not when your 
client is competing against single-platform packages that do A, B and 
C.

Same goes for RunRev.  When a programmer evaluates RunRev they're 
looking not just at cross-platform packages, but at single-platform 
packages as well, and they're weighing the ease of going cross-platform 
with a limited set of technologies, versus the cost of not having 
access to native technologies that RunRev doesn't support.  And when 
there's a single-platform must-have that RunRev doesn't support then 
RunRev doesn't get the sale.

> I think the shoe belongs on the other foot. If Rev attempts to be "just
> another Windows tool" (or for that matter "just another Mac tool") it
> will miss its opportunity to be the best damn cross-platform tool
> around.

Kevin doesn't have enough $$$ in the bank to keep up with the latest 
technologies on all the platforms he's trying to support, and so he's 
always going to have to shoot for the lowest common denominator.  He 
can get rid of that problem by providing native API support once.  
Because once he does that the problem goes away -- forever.

-- Frank


From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Aug  9 02:24:25 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:24:25 -0700
Subject: Is being a good cross-platform tool good enough?
In-Reply-To: <E0B88458-E9C4-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <20040808094136.9A611930102@mail.runrev.com>
	<E0B88458-E9C4-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <C2CBB425-E9CC-11D8-B7D2-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Frank.....

Good conversation.
On Aug 8, 2004, at 10:28 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

>> Frank.....
>>
>> Pardon me, but this comment seemed a little strange to me. "Just
>> another cross-platform tool"? What others are there? RealBasic has 
>> been
>> mentioned. Maybe Director (though it's not for general-purpose apps).
>>
>
> Dan,
>
> Let's say you've been hired to develop a cross-platform accounting 
> system, and you present the spec to your client.  After reading it 
> over they ask why features A, B and C are missing, and you respond 
> with "well, no other cross-platform accounting system can do that".  
> Do you suppose you're going to get the project?  I doubt it, not when 
> your client is competing against single-platform packages that do A, B 
> and C.
>
Intriguing scenario. I've never encountered this issue. If I did, I'd 
probably try to explain up front the trade-offs involved in getting 
those nifty platform-specific features in a product he wants to be sure 
is cross-platform. I'd explain the costs of maintaining two separate 
(even partial) code bases. I'd try to find out why he wants this 
product to be cross-platform. If, e.g., he has clients where mixed 
platforms will be used, introducing platform-specific features might 
create some zany support and training issues.

At the end of the day, if he really wants platform-specific features in 
this cross-platform tool, then I have to decide if I want to learn 
those features and how to implement them, pass on the project, or hire 
someone who's expert on his other platform.

But you are right that RunRev won't in its current incarnation be the 
right tool for all such applications. I'm not even sure it's a good 
choice for an accounting package. But the fact that a huge percentage 
of xplat projects don't require that platform-specific feature set 
makes it usable for a lot of things. Enough to keep me happy anyway.

> Same goes for RunRev.  When a programmer evaluates RunRev they're 
> looking not just at cross-platform packages, but at single-platform 
> packages as well,

Not sure I agree or follow here, Frank. If I had a client who wanted a 
Windows-only product, I'd choose a Windows-only tool, not a tool 
designed specifically to create cross-platform apps because I know the 
trade-offs that are inevitably made to create such tools.

For example, if I were asked to write an OS X-only product, I might 
well choose not to use Revolution simply because Revolution might not 
be as easy to do system-specific features in.

> and they're weighing the ease of going cross-platform with a limited 
> set of technologies, versus the cost of not having access to native 
> technologies that RunRev doesn't support.  And when there's a 
> single-platform must-have that RunRev doesn't support then RunRev 
> doesn't get the sale.
>
>> I think the shoe belongs on the other foot. If Rev attempts to be 
>> "just
>> another Windows tool" (or for that matter "just another Mac tool") it
>> will miss its opportunity to be the best damn cross-platform tool
>> around.
>
> Kevin doesn't have enough $$$ in the bank to keep up with the latest 
> technologies on all the platforms he's trying to support, and so he's 
> always going to have to shoot for the lowest common denominator.  He 
> can get rid of that problem by providing native API support once.  
> Because once he does that the problem goes away -- forever.
>
Decent point. But in the process, will he have to give up on the 
simplicity and approachability of Transcript and Revolution? It seems 
to me inevitable. And when that happens, the utility of the program  
for its largest potential user base -- inventive users rather than 
professional programmers --  declines.

My ultimate point remains if not valid at least logical. There's no way 
for Rev to compete as a single-platform development tool for 
professionals on any platform. Its real power is in cross-platform. To 
keep the language accessible, we need to resist gratuitous additions.

I can't say that the ability to access system APIs will of necessity 
make the language and/or IDE more complex than necessary or accessible, 
but it seems to me that it's likely to do so.

> -- Frank
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sat Aug  7 22:05:01 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 19:05:01 -0700
Subject: (;-) = ?
In-Reply-To: <20040807224041.83978.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040807224041.83978.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0610059bbd3b3aa44996@[66.93.39.98]>

At 3:40 PM -0700 8/7/2004, Erik Hansen wrote:
>--- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:
>
>(;-)
>
>is this an artifact from
>some cybernetic Ursprache?

Perhaps a winking smiley ;-) but wearing a beret or similar headgear?
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Mon Aug  9 02:35:45 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 02:35:45 EDT
Subject: Call for feature requests, ssBk
Message-ID: <7b.307ad86b.2e487541@aol.com>

This is a call for feature requests for the next  release of The Scripter's 
Scrapbook. Please reply direct to  h at FlexibleLearning.com for coordination, 
unless you feel your request has  discussion merit!

A selection of requests already received:
- Transfer  of current settings and entries to updates
- List selection by entries with  attachments
- Multiple page print preview
- Global text wrap option
-  Identify new samples in updates
- Copy to clipboard (now in 4.01)
- Search  Internet and archives (now in 4.01)
- Import/convert files as entry records  (now in 4.01)


/H

Hugh Senior
The Flexible Learning  Company
www.FlexibleLearning.com/ssbk.htm  


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Aug  9 04:09:01 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:09:01 +0200
Subject: Rev's Web-centricity (was: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to
	sell Dan's book widely))
In-Reply-To: <4116ABEF.20507@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEDPGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Richard,

> Beyond that, what other things might help make the value of choosing Rev
> more self-evident?
>
> The value's there.  The problem isn't the tool, it's communicating what
> the tool has already accomplished.

RR is like a cult - much like ska music - it has a worldwide following,
it's extremely popular if not fanatic following, it's clearly a superb
idea that moves and jostles your motivation to do better, offers an
incredible resourcefullness in variety of styles.

But compared to trendy things like Disco, House, Rap/HipHop, and Techno
today, it will never get the spotlight - except for a exceptional songs/
stacks. There is a question of getting a big publishing/recording label
behind you.

I bought the PC studio license because - 1) I have potentially 10X more
users (and note that this ratio doesn't really justify buying a license
for another platform - but Im sure this is not a real issue once a soft
is successful, 2) Im have this hobby of creating/designing/writing and
RunRev is the digital tool that does it ALL.

I find the lack of Made-in-RR applications around the web to be probably
the biggest loss in show of commercial capability, marketing visibility
power (any one has the potential Moft look on the net) is needed - like
an article or banner on Slashdot. After that, continued articles (one a
month eg) would keep the flow in... Good old marketing wave function.

A few how-tos with graphics on the web would be cool to demonstrate the
disparate advantages of RR.

If you look at niche products like Satelite decoders (my dreambox in
particular but others as well), PHPNuke, FruityLoops and countless others,
the show of force that brings the crowd to the website is the web Forum.
Not only it serves as a live FAQ and an organized place for things like
release announcements, Plat-x issues, Heather news, etc...

Today, if that moves to the RevOnline, you will loose that visibility. I
really suggest you look at FruityLoops forums and excellent website at
www.flstudio.com. They have a tool much like RR but for music and their
user crowd is amazing in display of help, samples, songs, you name it.
If RR had this, we wouldn't be having this talk. And note that FL is
PC only - made with Delphi. Delphi's web site is not bad either BTW.

Since HyperCard met the net, this forum visibility has been moved mostly
from maillist to maillist. But this form is not well exposed IMOHO to either
new comers or visitors and is severly limited by its text-only appearance
which is not a good example of the platform. The web presence of RR is far
from what HC was... But HC was, well, a 32K BW Apple-limited tool. It was
well marketed in the beginning.

An interesting question/comparison is Filemaker today on PCs... Media
marketing over info-world and pc world didn't do much... But repeat
marketing is known to have a bigger effect over long-term. It has worked
on the Mac I believe. How many of us found RunRev while seeing a web ad?

So there, without getting into the tech details of RR, just looking at
the client's web view, the visibility is still a handful of webs with a
handful of links - which are not even complete - few have externals, HC
libraries (infomac or hyperarchive.mit, not to mention my own) <:(

Would Google ads do better than Slashdot's? Why not try both. Again, Fruity
Loops Studio is available on Tucows - Wouldn't that be part of its success?
No, they had magazines include them on CDs, make articles on them and they
make IMPRESSIVE demos of the capabilities of their products. Try their
demo, it's spectacular and not as expensive as RR. Which is the source of
their success? It certainly is not the features which we could compare as
powerful as RR's.

This thread is a definitely good marketing tutor, thinktank!

cheers
Xavier



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Aug  9 04:59:39 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:59:39 +0200
Subject: Rev's Web-centricity (was: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea
	tosell Dan's book widely))
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEDPGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEEAGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Sorry, but i just finished my 2nd cup of coffee and my brain fog
cleared up...

In my 2 reasons for getting RR studio, #2 reason was that you can still
run the stack format on any platform and do it all.

And for the RevOnline "experience", it would be great to have it both
web based in addition to Mac based. Easier for the RevUser (some prefer
web to stack based navigation?) and nice to see for the newcomer or
visitor to navigate.

If the website of RunRev mentioned something like

This site made and running with a RunRev over Apache


Wouldn't that be something to consider for Java/PHP/Flash/SQL
users?

Can RR perform? ;)
I have my ideas how it can with Win2003 servers.
Im sure that Kevin and company are considering our ideas as fast
as they pour in but at the end of the day, it takes time and man
years to make this work. This discussion has been really a big
feast of thoughts! Dan's book will honor my library... I have to
know what made this thread mushroom!

Cheers
Xa
--
http://monsieurx.com
Nitrous boosted plugins and applications for the RunRevolution!



> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:09
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: RE: Rev's Web-centricity (was: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea
> tosell Dan's book widely))
>
>
> Richard,
>
> > Beyond that, what other things might help make the value of choosing Rev
> > more self-evident?
> >
> > The value's there.  The problem isn't the tool, it's communicating what
> > the tool has already accomplished.
>
> RR is like a cult - much like ska music - it has a worldwide following,
> it's extremely popular if not fanatic following, it's clearly a superb
> idea that moves and jostles your motivation to do better, offers an
> incredible resourcefullness in variety of styles.
>
> But compared to trendy things like Disco, House, Rap/HipHop, and Techno
> today, it will never get the spotlight - except for a exceptional songs/
> stacks. There is a question of getting a big publishing/recording label
> behind you.
>
> I bought the PC studio license because - 1) I have potentially 10X more
> users (and note that this ratio doesn't really justify buying a license
> for another platform - but Im sure this is not a real issue once a soft
> is successful, 2) Im have this hobby of creating/designing/writing and
> RunRev is the digital tool that does it ALL.
>
> I find the lack of Made-in-RR applications around the web to be probably
> the biggest loss in show of commercial capability, marketing visibility
> power (any one has the potential Moft look on the net) is needed - like
> an article or banner on Slashdot. After that, continued articles (one a
> month eg) would keep the flow in... Good old marketing wave function.
>
> A few how-tos with graphics on the web would be cool to demonstrate the
> disparate advantages of RR.
>
> If you look at niche products like Satelite decoders (my dreambox in
> particular but others as well), PHPNuke, FruityLoops and countless others,
> the show of force that brings the crowd to the website is the web Forum.
> Not only it serves as a live FAQ and an organized place for things like
> release announcements, Plat-x issues, Heather news, etc...
>
> Today, if that moves to the RevOnline, you will loose that visibility. I
> really suggest you look at FruityLoops forums and excellent website at
> www.flstudio.com. They have a tool much like RR but for music and their
> user crowd is amazing in display of help, samples, songs, you name it.
> If RR had this, we wouldn't be having this talk. And note that FL is
> PC only - made with Delphi. Delphi's web site is not bad either BTW.
>
> Since HyperCard met the net, this forum visibility has been moved mostly
> from maillist to maillist. But this form is not well exposed
> IMOHO to either
> new comers or visitors and is severly limited by its text-only appearance
> which is not a good example of the platform. The web presence of RR is far
> from what HC was... But HC was, well, a 32K BW Apple-limited tool. It was
> well marketed in the beginning.
>
> An interesting question/comparison is Filemaker today on PCs... Media
> marketing over info-world and pc world didn't do much... But repeat
> marketing is known to have a bigger effect over long-term. It has worked
> on the Mac I believe. How many of us found RunRev while seeing a web ad?
>
> So there, without getting into the tech details of RR, just looking at
> the client's web view, the visibility is still a handful of webs with a
> handful of links - which are not even complete - few have externals, HC
> libraries (infomac or hyperarchive.mit, not to mention my own) <:(
>
> Would Google ads do better than Slashdot's? Why not try both.
> Again, Fruity
> Loops Studio is available on Tucows - Wouldn't that be part of
> its success?
> No, they had magazines include them on CDs, make articles on them and they
> make IMPRESSIVE demos of the capabilities of their products. Try their
> demo, it's spectacular and not as expensive as RR. Which is the source of
> their success? It certainly is not the features which we could compare as
> powerful as RR's.
>
> This thread is a definitely good marketing tutor, thinktank!
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Mon Aug  9 04:50:09 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:50:09 +0200
Subject: cross platform info
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408081136360.23263-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408081136360.23263-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <1E3FC4F2-E9E1-11D8-AAD8-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 08.08.2004, at 20:36, Judy Perry wrote:

Yes, really a good idea!

> Good idea!
>
> Judy
>
> On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 Meitnik at aol.com wrote:
>
>>> This kind of thing can kill a small developer.
>>> -- um, whats killing is not finding all the small stuff that is need 
>>> to make
>> the crossplatform stuff work. I would like to see RR docs have a full 
>> section
>> on win/mac issuses explained and how to be handled. Why dont the 
>> webnotes be
>> fulled out to teach newibies whats the teething points for 
>> crossplatform
>> support are.
>>

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speadlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Aug  9 05:19:57 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:19:57 +0200
Subject: 3d graphics in RR/MC [again]
In-Reply-To: <20040807231832.59818.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEEAGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

That's really fantastic!

Im impressed! 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Alejandro
> Tejada
> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 01:19
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: 3d graphics in RR/MC [again]
> 
> 
> Troy wrote:
> 
> > [snip] If that RR could be strengthened with more
> > graphics functionality
> > (both 2D and 3D) I probably wouldn't bother
> > looking around, or needing
> > to constantly switch tools based on project
> > requirements.
> 
> xavier bury wrote:
> 
> > While looking at some graphic functions theory and
> > how to translate,
> > Actionscript, java to TS, I noticed that the 3D in
> > Flash is simply
> > anymations
> > made in Swivel3D. The rest is just smart line
> > handling.
> > 
> > I plan to do some 3D again soon... It's hard but
> > result is always fun
> > to watch... One nice feature of RR to implement this
> > will be the irregular
> > polygon which with a matrix set of operations
> > converts 2D to easy 3D...
> 
> Hi Troy and Xavier,
> 
> Download the stack Rotater Manipulator from:
> 
> <http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/Rotater_Manipulator_v1a.zip>
> 
> This is an adaptation of the HC stack of Alexander
> Thomas that you could download from his website:
>  
> <http://www.dr-lex.34sp.com/software/3dstuff.html>
> 
> I've added 3D matrix math to make the transformations
> still more faster and included the "Live" option
> suggested by Jim Hurley (use this option with
> models of a few lines like the cube and some simple
> shapes like the Fighter and the Tank).
> 
> Read the Help card (second card)
> of this stack for useful information.
> 
> I've invited to Alexander Thomas to test RunRev 
> by himself and to visit us in the mail list.
> 
> Enjoy! :-))
> 
> al
> 
> 
> =====
> Visit my site:
> http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From wmb at internettrainer.com  Mon Aug  9 05:16:40 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:16:40 +0200
Subject: Quick Rev <=> Flash review
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040809101719.02694918@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <20040808160007.5033B930105@mail.runrev.com>
	<6.1.2.0.0.20040809101719.02694918@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <D2E3FA98-E9E4-11D8-AAD8-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 09.08.2004, at 03:30, Alex Shaw wrote:

> Both flash and rev still require kludges for certain platform-specific 
> issues but these are [sometimes documented &] easily solved. There has 
> been some talk about embedding activex controls into rev and this is 
> certainly a good thing if you're ms-bound but I think most of us chose 
> mc / rev because of it's xplat capabilities and this project certainly 
> proved to me that it was only possible because rev is really good at 
> the basic stuff and if it can keep doing that and improving then we 
> all benefit.

That report was vey interesting for me. Thanks!
Assuming you used QT for Flash or is there any other way withotu it? 
But do you think, I dont remember when and how many times as I asked 
for that, a nativ Flash support in rev would be that Killer App(Plug 
in)? to revs real target market, as Dan mentioned before?

obrigado to Andre also, nice metapher. I think thats the point to 
attract developers to change from VB or .... Use rev as the 
crossplattform Orange peel, but give this peel the possibility to hold 
more native supported fruits than oranges only.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speadlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Mon Aug  9 05:38:48 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:38:48 +0200
Subject: (;-) = ?
In-Reply-To: <p0610059bbd3b3aa44996@[66.93.39.98]>
References: <20040807224041.83978.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>
	<p0610059bbd3b3aa44996@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <EA4F1B9A-E9E7-11D8-AAD8-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 08.08.2004, at 04:05, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 3:40 PM -0700 8/7/2004, Erik Hansen wrote:
>> --- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:
>>
>> (;-)
>>
>> is this an artifact from
>> some cybernetic Ursprache?
>
> Perhaps a winking smiley ;-) but wearing a beret or similar headgear?

Do you have patent or can we use it too?;))

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speadlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug  9 05:50:55 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:50:55 +0200
Subject: (;-) = ?
In-Reply-To: <p0610059bbd3b3aa44996@[66.93.39.98]>
References: <20040807224041.83978.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>
	<p0610059bbd3b3aa44996@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <9BB3E90C-E9E9-11D8-95AE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Jeanne, hi erik,

> At 3:40 PM -0700 8/7/2004, Erik Hansen wrote:
>> --- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:
>>
>> (;-)
>>
>> is this an artifact from
>> some cybernetic Ursprache?
>
> Perhaps a winking smiley ;-) but wearing a beret or similar headgear?

OK, i think i have to put something clear!

That is a FAKE actually!!!
The original post does not contains something like: (;-)

This is an evil and CHEAP attempt to undermine my authority!
I have to protest fiercely!

Don't you have something important to script?


Hence! home, you idle creatures, get you home:
Is this a holiday? what, know you not,
being mechanical, you ought not walk
upon a labouring day without the sign
of your profession? Speak, what trade art thou?
...


:-D

> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
> http://www.jaedworks.com

Regards from a very hot (you guessed ;-) germany

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Mon Aug  9 06:01:34 2004
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:01:34 +0900
Subject: RevPrintText/Field/Card problems
In-Reply-To: <20040808150636.67394.qmail@web60510.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040808150636.67394.qmail@web60510.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <189FECEC-E9EB-11D8-8EE4-000A95DAEEF0@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Thanks Jan for checking on this, I'll bug it now. Hopefully, it can be 
fixed with 2.5.

Ron


On Aug 9, 2004, at 12:06 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> --- ron barber <rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Any chance RevPrintText will be updated to support
>> Unicode? Printing
>> unicode text is proving challenging. Type Unicoded
>> text into a fld and
>> then use the various print options available to us.
>>
>> <revprinttext >
>> put the htmltext of fld 1 into thetext
>> revshowprintdialog false,true
>> revprinttext thetext
>> === This results in a blank page(s) being previewed
>> as well as 'printed'
>>
>> put the text of fld 1 into thetext
>> revshowprintdialog false,true
>> revprinttext thetext
>> === This results in the unicode text being printed
>> in ascii format ie.
>> incorrectlly
>>
>> <Print card...>
>> This can be used. One just needs to clone a stack
>> with a field the size
>> of the printable area of the chosen paper, add a
>> little to the topright
>> and chop off a little of the bottomleft to get rid
>> of the fld outline
>> and it passes as a printed page of text. It is not
>> an ideal solution
>> however.
>>
>> <revprintfield>
>> This works for ascii text but not for unicode. The
>> results is a blank
>> page(s) similar to using revprinttext using
>> htmltext.
>>
>>
>> thanks
>> Ron
>>
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> If you haven't filed a bugzilla report yet, you
> should, as otherwise it's not going to get on the
> agenda -- however, I think I've found the culprit :
> handler 'revSetPrintFont' in the 'revPrintBack'
> backscript doesn't take into account if the field font
> is set to something unicode, like "Osaka,Japanese"
> when it checks if the textFont of the field is in the
> fontnames of the printer.
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
>
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Mon Aug  9 06:36:58 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:36:58 +0200
Subject: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <4116ABEF.20507@fourthworld.com>
References: <BD3AB828.379B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
 <5CEF9DCC-E8C8-11D8-B198-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
 <4116ABEF.20507@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a06110442bd3cff393f0c@[141.89.100.235]>

>The inherent value proposition for Rev as a pro development tool is 
>demonstrably high, and after 14 years there are sufficient examples 
>to make a compelling case.
>
>If the case is not immediately compelling today, what changes could 
>be made at the RunRev site and lesser marketing materials to make 
>the value more self-evident?
>...
>Beyond that, what other things might help make the value of choosing 
>Rev more self-evident?
>
>The value's there.  The problem isn't the tool, it's communicating 
>what the tool has already accomplished.
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation

and

>And to be honest I'm not so much worried about what a Windows 
>developer / user thinks of the details (such as "plain English") as 
>that they don't get that far. Look at the main page on 
>www.runrev.com - Windows is mentioned once - a single word 
>(admittedly in a prominent place).
>About a fifth of the screen is taken up by a row of  icons of Mac 
>awards, and another fifth of the screen is a Max OSX screenshot.
>Simply changing the screenshot to W-XP would help.
>Adding a quote (or logo/award) from a PC or Linux mag or site would 
>help even more.
>
>-- Alex.

As a cross-platform tool, RR should have not one but at least three 
screen shots there lined up up vertically, all with the same basic 
content but each from a different platform: OSX, WXP, Linux (W98 and 
OS9 could follow as well). The size of each should be smaller of 
course: half would do (clicking them should display each in large 
size).

Also, the sample in each window should be for sth more advanced than 
a simple calculator (for example, a movie player like the one that 
was presented in the MacTech articles).

Furthermore, the flashbox (the yellow box with news) could be moved 
left (or made a singleliner) so these "platform" shots start 
immediately under the navbar so their multiplicity is clearly evident 
within the initial pageview.

This would convey cross-platform aspect of this tool a lot stronger 
than any text they have there.

Robert Brenstein

From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Aug  9 06:40:06 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:40:06 +0200
Subject: Rev's Web-centricity (was: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea
	tosell Dan's book widely))
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEEAGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEEAGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <7AC3D670-E9F0-11D8-844F-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Grettings, All,

In about marketing/pedagogic tasks, the need is always to repeat and 
repeat, again and again... Thanks for the inputs, Xavier. I vote for 
having "Revolution Powered Web-Service" banners all over the Rev 
powered / dedicated web-services too !

Le 9 ao?t 04, ? 10:59, MisterX a ?crit :

> Sorry, but i just finished my 2nd cup of coffee and my brain fog
> cleared up...
>
> In my 2 reasons for getting RR studio, #2 reason was that you can still
> run the stack format on any platform and do it all.
>
> And for the RevOnline "experience", it would be great to have it both
> web based in addition to Mac based. Easier for the RevUser (some prefer
> web to stack based navigation?) and nice to see for the newcomer or
> visitor to navigate.
>
> If the website of RunRev mentioned something like
>
> This site made and running with a RunRev over Apache
>
>
> Wouldn't that be something to consider for Java/PHP/Flash/SQL
> users?
>
> Can RR perform? ;)
> I have my ideas how it can with Win2003 servers.
> Im sure that Kevin and company are considering our ideas as fast
> as they pour in but at the end of the day, it takes time and man
> years to make this work. This discussion has been really a big
> feast of thoughts! Dan's book will honor my library... I have to
> know what made this thread mushroom!
>
> Cheers
> Xa
> --
> http://monsieurx.com
> Nitrous boosted plugins and applications for the RunRevolution!
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of MisterX
>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:09
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: RE: Rev's Web-centricity (was: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: 
>> Plea
>> tosell Dan's book widely))
>>
>>
>> Richard,
>>
>>> Beyond that, what other things might help make the value of choosing 
>>> Rev
>>> more self-evident?
>>>
>>> The value's there.  The problem isn't the tool, it's communicating 
>>> what
>>> the tool has already accomplished.
>>
>> RR is like a cult - much like ska music - it has a worldwide 
>> following,
>> it's extremely popular if not fanatic following, it's clearly a superb
>> idea that moves and jostles your motivation to do better, offers an
>> incredible resourcefullness in variety of styles.
>>
>> But compared to trendy things like Disco, House, Rap/HipHop, and 
>> Techno
>> today, it will never get the spotlight - except for a exceptional 
>> songs/
>> stacks. There is a question of getting a big publishing/recording 
>> label
>> behind you.
>>
>> I bought the PC studio license because - 1) I have potentially 10X 
>> more
>> users (and note that this ratio doesn't really justify buying a 
>> license
>> for another platform - but Im sure this is not a real issue once a 
>> soft
>> is successful, 2) Im have this hobby of creating/designing/writing and
>> RunRev is the digital tool that does it ALL.
>>
>> I find the lack of Made-in-RR applications around the web to be 
>> probably
>> the biggest loss in show of commercial capability, marketing 
>> visibility
>> power (any one has the potential Moft look on the net) is needed - 
>> like
>> an article or banner on Slashdot. After that, continued articles (one 
>> a
>> month eg) would keep the flow in... Good old marketing wave function.
>>
>> A few how-tos with graphics on the web would be cool to demonstrate 
>> the
>> disparate advantages of RR.
>>
>> If you look at niche products like Satelite decoders (my dreambox in
>> particular but others as well), PHPNuke, FruityLoops and countless 
>> others,
>> the show of force that brings the crowd to the website is the web 
>> Forum.
>> Not only it serves as a live FAQ and an organized place for things 
>> like
>> release announcements, Plat-x issues, Heather news, etc...
>>
>> Today, if that moves to the RevOnline, you will loose that 
>> visibility. I
>> really suggest you look at FruityLoops forums and excellent website at
>> www.flstudio.com. They have a tool much like RR but for music and 
>> their
>> user crowd is amazing in display of help, samples, songs, you name it.
>> If RR had this, we wouldn't be having this talk. And note that FL is
>> PC only - made with Delphi. Delphi's web site is not bad either BTW.
>>
>> Since HyperCard met the net, this forum visibility has been moved 
>> mostly
>> from maillist to maillist. But this form is not well exposed
>> IMOHO to either
>> new comers or visitors and is severly limited by its text-only 
>> appearance
>> which is not a good example of the platform. The web presence of RR 
>> is far
>> from what HC was... But HC was, well, a 32K BW Apple-limited tool. It 
>> was
>> well marketed in the beginning.
>>
>> An interesting question/comparison is Filemaker today on PCs... Media
>> marketing over info-world and pc world didn't do much... But repeat
>> marketing is known to have a bigger effect over long-term. It has 
>> worked
>> on the Mac I believe. How many of us found RunRev while seeing a web 
>> ad?
>>
>> So there, without getting into the tech details of RR, just looking at
>> the client's web view, the visibility is still a handful of webs with 
>> a
>> handful of links - which are not even complete - few have externals, 
>> HC
>> libraries (infomac or hyperarchive.mit, not to mention my own) <:(
>>
>> Would Google ads do better than Slashdot's? Why not try both.
>> Again, Fruity
>> Loops Studio is available on Tucows - Wouldn't that be part of
>> its success?
>> No, they had magazines include them on CDs, make articles on them and 
>> they
>> make IMPRESSIVE demos of the capabilities of their products. Try their
>> demo, it's spectacular and not as expensive as RR. Which is the 
>> source of
>> their success? It certainly is not the features which we could 
>> compare as
>> powerful as RR's.
>>
>> This thread is a definitely good marketing tutor, thinktank!
>>
>> cheers
>> Xavier
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

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"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Aug  9 08:20:31 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 13:20:31 +0100
Subject: XML questions
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040809125413.00b07630@pop3.btinternet.com>


I just started learning from Sarah's great XML demo, trying to get enough 
XML knowledge to do some simple input from XML.

I found a few questions (about XML in Rev, not about the demo)

1. For revCreateXMLTree (and other XML functions), the documentation says
"if the function encounters an error, it returns an error message starting 
with "xmlerr"

Is there a list of the errors that can be returned?
Where would I find it ?

2. trying to create an XML tree from my file (with 
revCreateXMLTreeFromFile), I get
      xmlerr, can't parse xml
      Unsupported encoding ISO-8559-15

Is there a list of supported encodings ?

3. ISO-8559-15 is simply ISO-8559-1 (i.e. Latin1) with the addition of the 
euro symbol. Other than the fact that my input files are in that encoding, 
I don't personally have any need for the euro symbol (I'm going to ignore 
the currency section of the input anyway), but it sounds like a reasonably 
likely encoding to encounter in future - should I simply Bugzilla support of
ISO-8559-15 as an enhancement ?

4. If I simply read the file into a variable, replace "ISO-8559-15" with 
"ISO-8559-1" then it *looks* as though it works OK - the euro symbol in an 
input XML file comes in ok (though this may be Windows specific ??).  How 
much trouble am I creating for myself if I do this ?

Thanks
-- Alex.



From heather at runrev.com  Mon Aug  9 08:38:53 2004
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 13:38:53 +0100
Subject: Rev's Web-centricity (was: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was:  Plea
	to sell Dan's book widely))
In-Reply-To: <20040809103716.A45449300AE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD3D2EED.2C195%heather@runrev.com>

> an organized place for things like
> release announcements, Plat-x issues, Heather news, etc...

! This made me laugh. Heather news? Is that like the weather, only about a
creeping heath plant? "Today the heather is growing well on the mountains,
och aye indeed, and will be blooming in the gloamin fornenst the nicht the
nicht..."

I've been following this debate with interest and at its conclusion will see
what items can be gleaned from it for our marketing program. I should say
that most of these issues have been debated, tried where appropriate or are
under consideration.

Cheers

The Heather News Team
-- 

** For a faster response to all licensing, support, and technical issues,
please now send mail to support at runrev.com **

Heather Nagey ~ heather at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
Tel +44 (0) 870 747 1165 Fax +44 (0) 845 4588487
~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~


From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Mon Aug  9 08:47:55 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 09:47:55 -0300
Subject: Suppressing Save Dialogue - How do I do it?
In-Reply-To: <20040808153256.95239.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BD3CF8CA.956E%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

I want to suppress it so that the user doesn't constantly see messages about
saving a stack when it closes.  I've run into a situation where I have a
palette that contains a text field and gets updated plus some other changes
and the save dialogue seems intrusive and out of context.  If I could save
surreptitiously I feel that would be better... Jim

on 8/8/04 12:32 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

>> In either case, I was looking for a
>> way to suppress the Save dialogue when I save a
>> stack under script control.
>> Anyone know of a way?  Rev doesn't seem to have a
>> "no dialogue" script
>> element.  Jim
>> 
> 
> Well I'm not sure how you could prevent it from
> showing up inside the IDE ; however, it shouldn't show
> up in your standalones, so why do you want to make
> sure it doesn't show up ?

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Aug  9 04:46:48 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:46:48 +0200
Subject: Number format for money
In-Reply-To: <BD3C2CCE.2383%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD3C2CCE.2383%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <A6AB3A0C-E9E0-11D8-BBD5-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>


Le 09-ao?t-04, ? 01:17, Bill a ?crit :

> set the numberFormat of tBondAmount to "#.00"
>
> Only works for scroll bars (weird that it is so specialized).
>
> How do you take a number like 10000000.00 that is in the variable
> tBondAmount and make it look like $100,000,000.00 ??
>
> Bill
>
> -- thanks in adavance!
>
>

Hi Bill,

a time ago, someone on the list gave an universal function for money, 
separator,...

I don't know who was this rev user but his function is very interesting.

here is the function :

function currency rawStr, currSym, beforeAfter, thouSymb, decSym, decPl
   -- Parameters:
   -- rawstr - unformatted number
   -- currSym - currency symbol (can be more than 1 char)
   -- beforeAfter -  symbol is "before" or "after" the value
   -- thouSymb - thousands separator symbol
   -- decSym - decimal point symbol
   -- decPl - number of decimal places
   if not isNumber(decPl) or decPl = 0 then
     put round(rawStr) into rawStr
   end if
   put trunc(rawStr) into wholeNumb
   if thouSymb = empty then
     put wholeNumb into currStr
   else
     put empty into currStr
     repeat until wholeNumb < 1000
       put thouSymb & char -3 to -1 of ("000" & wholeNumb mod 1000) 
before currStr
       put wholeNumb div 1000 into wholeNumb
     end repeat
     if wholeNumb = 0 then
       delete first char of currStr
     else
       put wholeNumb before currStr
     end if
     if currStr = empty then put "0" into currStr
   end if

   if isNumber(decPl) and decPl > 0 then
     put rawStr - trunc(rawStr) into tmp
     if tmp = "0" then
       put decSym & "00" after currStr
     end if

     if char -3 to -1 of currStr <> ",00" then

       if char (offset(".",rawStr))+1 of rawStr = "0" then
         put decSym &"0"&round((rawStr - trunc(rawStr)) * (10 ^ decPl)) 
after currStr
       else
         put decSym & round((rawStr - trunc(rawStr)) * (10 ^ decPl)) 
after currStr
       end if
     end if


   end if
   if beforeAfter <> "after" then
     put currSym before currStr
   else
     put currSym after currStr
   end if
   return currStr
end currency



hope this help.

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be

From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  9 09:43:32 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:43:32 -0400
Subject: (;-) = ?
In-Reply-To: <9BB3E90C-E9E9-11D8-95AE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <20040807224041.83978.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>
	<p0610059bbd3b3aa44996@[66.93.39.98]>
	<9BB3E90C-E9E9-11D8-95AE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1AF05745-EA0A-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 5:50 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Speak, what trade art thou?

(;-P
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From Meitnik at aol.com  Mon Aug  9 09:53:49 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:53:49 EDT
Subject: RevApiMac/Win
Message-ID: <196.2ce26957.2e48dbed@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/9/04 6:41:31 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
writes:


> I can't say that the ability to access system APIs will of necessity
> make the language and/or IDE more complex than necessary or accessible,
> but it seems to me that it's likely to do so.
> -- Nope. Some 15yrs ago I helped a company named Thursday Software craft a 
get set of xcmds which allowed direct access to Macos APIs rather smoothly in 
english like names. I loved it. I was actally coding Inside Mac examples in no 
time. I seen it done, it can be done again. Yes, it will take some work. Sadly, 
the one publisher Heizer he went to, felt it competed with ComplileIt, so it 
never got its marketing due.

Andrew
> 
> 


From revlist at cableone.net  Mon Aug  9 10:00:49 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 08:00:49 -0600
Subject: memory - why isn't it getting freed
Message-ID: <000801c47e19$46ab2540$64fea8c0@chris1>

Can anyone tell me the reasons for memory not getting freed up like it
should?

I have an application that consists of a login stack, another main stack
where most of the program functionality occurs, and then several other
external stacks (stored as compressed data in a Valentina database) that
contain multimedia content such as graphics, audio files, text, etc.  These
stacks get extracted from the database, decompressed, and then accessed to
retrieve that content.  The problem is, when I?m done with these external
stacks, I use the delete stack command, which should remove them from
memory, but it doesn?t.  I have checked every function I can think of
(revLoadedStacks, openStacks, stacksInUse, etc.) to see if Rev thinks these
stacks are still open in some way, but that is not the case.  The memory
just doesn?t get freed.  It doesn?t return to normal until I completely exit
my application.  This is not a good thing because used memory keeps building
up and up, until eventually the application crashes because the system has
run out of memory.

This is a serious problem, and I?m not sure if it?s something I?m doing
wrong, or if I?ve discovered some bug in Rev.  So what I?m wondering is,
what would cause memory to not get freed the way it should?  Files that the
stacks might have open perhaps?  But if that were the case, why would the
stack not appear when using one of the above functions?  Anything else?

Thanks,


Chris Sheffield
Software Developer
Read Naturally
csheffield at readnaturally.com



---
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From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug  9 10:06:36 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:06:36 -0400
Subject: Mysterious gray background
In-Reply-To: <20040809103716.A45449300AE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD3CFD2C.23B2%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

When I make a label field and put some text in it all is fine but when I
print it it has a gray background. I cannot find anywhere where this gray
background comes from. How do I get rid of it. All the "colors and patterns"
selections are clear for both this large text field and the group it is in.

I am used to WYSIWIG and this has me stumped.



From Meitnik at aol.com  Mon Aug  9 10:12:43 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:12:43 EDT
Subject: "Dont need MDI" they say ;-)
Message-ID: <e6.55db5fe8.2e48e05b@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/9/04 6:41:31 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
writes:


> But the fact that a huge percentage
> of xplat projects don't require that platform-specific feature set
> makes it usable for a lot of things.
> -- And thats why I am now begining to understand why there has not been the 
need to do MDI support in 10yrs. So, not having true MDI support is not a 
problem if you creating a true document app? ;-)

Andrew

From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  9 10:23:17 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:23:17 -0400
Subject: "Dont need MDI" they say ;-)
In-Reply-To: <e6.55db5fe8.2e48e05b@aol.com>
References: <e6.55db5fe8.2e48e05b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A840D764-EA0F-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 10:12 AM, Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

>> -- And thats why I am now begining to understand why there has not 
>> been the 
> need to do MDI support in 10yrs. So, not having true MDI support is 
> not a
> problem if you creating a true document app?

When we talk about "true MDI", are we talking about containing all of 
the applications documents in a single window, rather than having each 
of them as an independent window?
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From nnoydb at excite.com  Mon Aug  9 10:39:05 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Mon,  9 Aug 2004 10:39:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: frontscripts (the script property)
Message-ID: <20040809143905.A7A423DEC@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>




Thanks for all the responses to my := query! I was wondering if placeing a GetProp/SetProp handler in front scripts to x-lat := into the put XXX into XXX syntax and back again upon get (possibly even build my own parse tree). Is this a viable option? Are there any other considerations?

Kevin


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From kevin at runrev.com  Mon Aug  9 11:17:45 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:17:45 +0100
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
In-Reply-To: <4115D5C8.6040505@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BD3D5429.26B4%kevin@runrev.com>

On 8/8/04 8:27 am, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> Mark Weider is the guy. He wrote an external primer for RR, but I don't
> know whatever became of it...

It will be shipped as part of 2.5.

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From kevin at runrev.com  Mon Aug  9 11:34:56 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:34:56 +0100
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <000e01c47c82$3a79a5a0$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <BD3D5830.26B7%kevin@runrev.com>

On 7/8/04 2:27 pm, "Stephen King" <st.king42 at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Speech capability seems to have vanished from the PC as far as I can see and
> media playing is still restricted if QT is not installed. It has been
> mentioned many times on the list that typical users of Rev products would be
> teachers/schools and that these sort of people cannot install QT as they
> have no admin rights, but this argument seems to hit stoney ground. Maybe a
> solution to this would be to embed QT into the Dreamcard player, so that all
> users have the full range of media facilities. Is this a possibility?

On the contrary, I'm very much aware of these issues.  We have addressed a
fair number of them to date, such as Windows XP and now Linux theme support,
and will be addressing more very actively over the next few versions, along
with the relevant marketing support.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Mon Aug  9 11:30:29 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:30:29 +0200
Subject: Target and me.  Target not the correct value
In-Reply-To: <2D9FEB0F-E9AA-11D8-8C5B-000A95A05246@limelight.com.au>
References: <20040808223823.AC06593005F@mail.runrev.com>
 <2D9FEB0F-E9AA-11D8-8C5B-000A95A05246@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <a0611044bbd3d43c25825@[141.89.100.235]>

>Hey ho.
>
>Just found a small discrepancy: the 'me' function will always return 
>the correct object, however 'the target' will only return the name 
>of the object.  This becomes an issue if you, like me, sometimes 
>duplicate an object and forget to give it a unique name.  Create a 
>button, put this script in it:
>
>on closeField
>   put the value of me
>end closeField

How does your button get the closefield message? This message is sent 
to the field but it is not passed to any button.

>Now duplicate (or option-drag) a copy.  Change text in the field, 
>notice the correct values are reported back to the msg window. Now 
>change BOTH scripts to:
>
>on closeField
>   put the value of the target
>end closeField

This pulls the content of the target not the target name. May be you 
mean to use the 'short name of the target'?

>... this reports incorrectly, only reporting 1 field (the first 
>found with the name 'Field 1').  I kinda remember in my dim past 
>that HyperCard would always return the target value correctly, even 
>with object name duplication?

the target function returns 'field "fldname"' or "button "btnname' so 
it indeed confusing if you have multiple objects of the same kind 
with the same name. I think you will always get the one in lower 
layer. It was the same in HyperCard I believe. If your objects have 
no names, then the object id is used and the target reference is 
unique.

>Confusingly, just 'target' (no 'the') returns the value correctly; 
>'the value of the target' doesn't when there is a duplicate name. 
>Small, simple, but had me stumped for a bit.

I get the same result regardless whether I have the or not in front 
of the target. This is curious in itself. Without the, it should not 
be recognized as a function.

>As you might expect, 'put the value of (long ID of the target)' 
>works.  Of course avoiding duplication is good practice; not 
>trusting 'the target' is safest if you can't guarantee unique 
>field/group/button etc names.

Hmm, curious that the long id of the target works. The target should 
still resolve ambiguously, so getting long id of that object should 
not fare any better. But I verified that indeed the result is 
correct. May be there is some preference to the current object. But 
then a parallel construct with value fails. I verified that it is 
indeed the case. It would seem that engine parses these differently.

>I'd like to see 'the target' use the long ID for object referencing, 
>but use the name of the target (as it does now) when used for 
>display.  Is that possible?  Anyone agree?

You are asking to change the syntax of Transcript which transpired 
from HyperTalk. That could result in compatbility issues with 
existing software.

Robert

From herz at ucsd.edu  Mon Aug  9 11:50:48 2004
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 08:50:48 -0700
Subject: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
References: <20040808061902.80BFF9300F1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <007a01c47e29$336e6bd0$6801a8c0@RKHpc2>

Chipp wrote:

> Also, as you recall at the Rev Summit in CA, Chris Bohnert demonstrated 
> how easy it is to create an external for RR. One which can call a 
> Win32API if needed. So, it seems to me, an interim step would be a 
> really good primer for creating externals for RR. 'Cause even with a 

An externals primer would be a great contribution!

Rich


From bob at ashford.ca  Mon Aug  9 12:05:07 2004
From: bob at ashford.ca (Robert J. Earp)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 09:05:07 -0700
Subject: Call for feature requests, ssBk
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040809084023.00b50000@mail.ashford.ca>

What a fantastic utility Hugh, many thanks for making it public.

I haven't had time to try all of its features and I don't entirely know if 
Scripter's Scrapbook is the place for it, but a better interface to the 
list would be MOST appreciated.

Although I'm set to digests, I still get a plethora of messages a day form 
the list.  The trouble is they are buried in the mass of spam one gets 
these days.

Now don't get me wrong, I really appreciate all of the activity of this 
list, its one of the best, but one tends to get bogged down reading 
everything.  Even a simple hyperlink from the table of contents to the 
actual article plus links between articles on the same subject would help 
immensely.

best, Bob...



>Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 02:35:45 EDT
>From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com
>Subject: Call for feature requests, ssBk
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Message-ID: <7b.307ad86b.2e487541 at aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>This is a call for feature requests for the next release of The Scripter's
>Scrapbook. Please reply direct to h at FlexibleLearning.com for coordination,
>unless you feel your request has discussion merit!
>
>A selection of requests already received:
>- Transfer of current settings and entries to updates
>- List selection by entries with attachments
>- Multiple page print preview
>- Global text wrap option
>- Identify new samples in updates
>- Copy to clipboard (now in 4.01)
>- Search Internet and archives (now in 4.01)
>- Import/convert files as entry records (now in 4.01)
>
>/H
>
>Hugh Senior
>The Flexible Learning Company
>www.FlexibleLearning.com/ssbk.htm





Robert J. Earp - Ashford Training Technologies
18059 21A Avenue, South Surrey, British Columbia, Canada.  V3S 9V7
T:(604) 541 1662  Cel: (604) 612 6688 Fx: (604) 541 1686








From Meitnik at aol.com  Mon Aug  9 12:20:15 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:20:15 EDT
Subject: MDI kind
Message-ID: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/9/04 12:04:59 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> When we talk about "true MDI", are we talking about containing all of
> the applications documents in a single window, rather than having each
> of them as an independent window?
> -- Well, ask a Windows developer what kind of MDI support is wanted in RR. As 
for me, I want a clean and effective way to handle MDI so it works like a MDI 
critter in Windows expected. Anyone have a code library for handling MDI on 
Windows with proper support for the taskbar?

Andrew


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug  9 12:41:46 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:41:46 -0400
Subject: MONEY FORMATER with cubits and drachmars
In-Reply-To: <20040809160044.696029300BF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD3D218A.23CC%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>


Please stop! I am using the excellent US dollar function given to me
earlier. I don't need to format francs or Euros and I am worried that the
next function someone offers will also give me capability for reals and
pieces of eight which will also not be needed.

Thank you list for your help as always...


On 8/9/04 12:00 PM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> universal function for money,

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From csilverm at ryerson.ca  Mon Aug  9 12:29:57 2004
From: csilverm at ryerson.ca (Charles Silverman)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:29:57 -0400
Subject: Mac-centric or mac-friendly?
In-Reply-To: <20040809160044.336349300BD@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040809160044.336349300BD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5A237DFA-EA21-11D8-8E0A-000A95A0C562@ryerson.ca>

Could it be that Rev is simply Mac-friendly and Mac-equal rather than 
Mac-centric... Mac-friendly is a good thing.  Otherwise, I wouldn't be 
using Rev.

There are still a lot of Mac things which aren't available in Rev.... 
The new "font" dialog box that is standard in OS X for one. Macs do 
well in education and digital media so that 96% figure regarding the 
rest of the market place may be a trifle high.

Would there be as many complaints about Quicktime if it weren't an 
"Apple" product?  Quicktime is supposed to be almost caught up to 
Windows Media Player, with Real trailing behind, so it's hard to see 
that it's that much of a problem to install Quicktime. I recall that 
Apple offers the Quicktime installer license for free. To quote:

> "A recent report on media player market share sales for client and 
> enterprise applications by research firm Frost & Sullivan showed Apple 
> moving into second position with 36.8 percent of the market, after 
> running a distant third a few years ago. That puts Apple above Real, 
> which controls 24.9 percent and not too far off from Microsoft and its 
> share of 38.2 percent."
- from http://www.internetnews.com/infra/article.php/3366831

One of my main reasons for using Rev is its Quicktime support.  I hope 
it gets better.

The Mac-friendly approach of the Rev team is much appreciated.

best,
Charles Silverman


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Mon Aug  9 12:49:00 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:49:00 -0700
Subject: Mysterious gray background
In-Reply-To: <BD3CFD2C.23B2%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD3CFD2C.23B2%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <0342526C-EA24-11D8-A12C-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 7:06 AM, Bill wrote:

> When I make a label field and put some text in it all is fine but when 
> I
> print it it has a gray background. I cannot find anywhere where this 
> gray
> background comes from. How do I get rid of it. All the "colors and 
> patterns"
> selections are clear for both this large text field and the group it 
> is in.
>
> I am used to WYSIWIG and this has me stumped.
>

If you are sure that you have your backgrounds are set to white and you 
still see the grey background, try updating your printer drivers.  This 
was an old issue for me years ago that seems to have gone away.


-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  9 13:06:58 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:06:58 -0400
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com>
References: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <862B2F45-EA26-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 12:20 PM, Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

>
>> When we talk about "true MDI", are we talking about containing all of
>> the applications documents in a single window, rather than having each
>> of them as an independent window?
>> -- Well, ask a Windows developer what kind of MDI support is wanted 
>> in RR. As 
> for me, I want a clean and effective way to handle MDI so it works 
> like a MDI
> critter in Windows expected. Anyone have a code library for handling 
> MDI on
> Windows with proper support for the taskbar?

I'm sorry, I still don't understand. What is a "MDI critter" and 
"proper support for the taskbar"? If no one properly identifies what 
they are expecting (and why), it is highly unlikely that those 
expectations will be met.

What *exactly* should MDI be doing, and what *exactly* should the 
taskbar be doing?

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Aug  9 13:54:13 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:54:13 -0600
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <862B2F45-EA26-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com>
	<862B2F45-EA26-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <1FCD81C0-EA2D-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 11:06 AM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> I'm sorry, I still don't understand. What is a "MDI critter" and 
> "proper support for the taskbar"? If no one properly identifies what 
> they are expecting (and why), it is highly unlikely that those 
> expectations will be met.
>
> What *exactly* should MDI be doing, and what *exactly* should the 
> taskbar be doing?

I'm with you.  I thought a minimized doc would be be something in the 
bottom of the window.  The taskbar would not be involved.  Well, my 
VC++ does this and an app I made deep in the last century did.

Dar Scott



From rporeda at ci.tulsa.ok.us  Mon Aug  9 14:13:38 2004
From: rporeda at ci.tulsa.ok.us (Robert Poreda)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 13:13:38 -0500
Subject: User Contributions on our website
Message-ID: <s117788a.015@ci.tulsa.ok.us>

Revonline.com displays a domain placeholder.

Revonline.org is yet another revolution in Christianity.

Revonline.net can't be found.



>>> heather at runrev.com 08/07 5:38 AM >>>
Dear listees,

...We would like to encourage the authors of the remaining contributions and
new contributions to upload them to Revonline...



From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Aug  9 14:38:18 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 19:38:18 +0100
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <862B2F45-EA26-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com>
 <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040809183148.034a8310@mail.tweedly.net>

At 13:06 09/08/2004 -0400, Troy Rollins wrote:


>On Aug 9, 2004, at 12:20 PM, Meitnik at aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>>When we talk about "true MDI", are we talking about containing all of
>>>the applications documents in a single window, rather than having each
>>>of them as an independent window?
>>>-- Well, ask a Windows developer what kind of MDI support is wanted in 
>>>RR. As
>>for me, I want a clean and effective way to handle MDI so it works like a MDI
>>critter in Windows expected. Anyone have a code library for handling MDI on
>>Windows with proper support for the taskbar?
>
>I'm sorry, I still don't understand. What is a "MDI critter" and "proper 
>support for the taskbar"? If no one properly identifies what they are 
>expecting (and why), it is highly unlikely that those expectations will be met.
>
>What *exactly* should MDI be doing, and what *exactly* should the taskbar 
>be doing?

Yes, MDI implies a single main window, with multiple child windows, each 
contained within the main window. A menu bar, status bar and task bar would 
be part of the main window, but their buttons/contents would apply to each 
(or often, the current) child window. (And individual child windows may 
also have their own, different task bars). The "standard" keyboard commands 
would apply (e.g. Ctrl-Tab should cycle through each child window, Alt-Tab 
should raise the main window in its turn, etc.)

(I have mostly a user rather than a developer point of view  - I've never 
developed anything to the MDI model because I dislike it and I know it's 
only a matter of time before the world, including even MS converts to a 
more document-centric model :-), so I may have missed something significant 
...)

-- Alex.


From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Aug  9 14:47:52 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 19:47:52 +0100
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040809183148.034a8310@mail.tweedly.net>
References: <862B2F45-EA26-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
 <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com>
 <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040809194114.0340dd10@mail.tweedly.net>

At 19:38 09/08/2004 +0100, Alex Tweedly wrote:

>Yes, MDI implies a single main window, with multiple child windows, each 
>contained within the main window. A menu bar, status bar and task bar 
>would be part of the main window, but their buttons/contents would apply 
>to each (or often, the current) child window. (And individual child 
>windows may also have their own, different task bars).

Sorry - I said task bar when I meant tool bar.

The taskbar is the (often hidden, pop-up) bar across the bottom of the 
screen. When an application is NOT minimized, it should still have an entry 
in the task bar; when minimized, it has only the entry in the task bar.

Dar Scott said:
>I'm with you.  I thought a minimized doc would be be something in the 
>bottom of the window.  The taskbar would not be involved.  Well, my VC++ 
>does this and an app I made deep in the last century did.

I'm used to that too - minimizing a child window produces an "icon" within 
the main window. However, I have seen sometimes (maybe XP only, and maybe 
only when the number of applications gets to be large enough ??) an 
application with multiple child windows will have a single entry in the 
task bar, but right clicking on it gives a pop-up menu which allows you to 
select an individual one of the child windows. (Or something like that - I 
don't use XP except when I need to fix something on my spouse's laptop).

-- Alex.

From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  9 14:52:43 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:52:43 -0400
Subject: User Contributions on our website
In-Reply-To: <s117788a.015@ci.tulsa.ok.us>
References: <s117788a.015@ci.tulsa.ok.us>
Message-ID: <4BC3431D-EA35-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 2:13 PM, Robert Poreda wrote:

> Revonline.com displays a domain placeholder.
>
> Revonline.org is yet another revolution in Christianity.
>
> Revonline.net can't be found.

This is a good point... it would be a good idea for RunRev to get a 
domain with that name.

However, Heather's comment is aimed at the new "RevOnline" utility 
built into version 2.5, I think.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Mon Aug  9 14:56:21 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:56:21 -0400
Subject: Call for feature requests, ssBk
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040809084023.00b50000@mail.ashford.ca>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040809084023.00b50000@mail.ashford.ca>
Message-ID: <CDC9441B-EA35-11D8-AC9A-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

  I set up a separate folder for messages from the list and set up a 
mail rule to send all of the list messages into that folder.  That way 
the list messages don't get mixed in with my other mail.

If your eMail client supports this, you might want to consider it.  
(Under OS X's Mail app, for example, check the "Rules" section of 
Mail's Preferences window; most major eMail clients support this).


On Aug 9, 2004, at 12:05, Robert J. Earp wrote:

> Although I'm set to digests, I still get a plethora of messages a day 
> form the list.  The trouble is they are buried in the mass of spam one 
> gets these days.



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  9 14:57:40 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 11:57:40 -0700
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com>
References: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4117C924.4030509@fourthworld.com>

Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/9/04 12:04:59 PM, 
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:
> 
>>When we talk about "true MDI", are we talking about containing all of
>>the applications documents in a single window, rather than having each
>>of them as an independent window?
>>-- Well, ask a Windows developer what kind of MDI support is wanted in RR. As 
> 
> for me, I want a clean and effective way to handle MDI so it works like a MDI 
> critter in Windows expected. Anyone have a code library for handling MDI on 
> Windows with proper support for the taskbar?

What are the concerns about the taskbar?  AFAIK it's not possible to do 
MDI at all in Rev today, though there is a proposal for its 
implementation (see 
<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1928>).


What is MDI?
------------
The Win HIG describes four windowing models for desktop apps, each 
appropriate for different workflows:
<http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/ch10a.asp>

Single-Document Window Interface
Workbooks
Projects
Multiple-Document Interface

Of these, Rev can do the SDI and Project models easily, and can mock up 
an acceptable Workbook with only modest effort to make tabs at the 
bottom of a window (I never use the Workbook model myself).

But MDI is a whole other animal, in which a parent window encompasses 
all document and tool windows.  Ideally, tool windows are also dockable 
in a true MDI (though not a spec requirement).  The parent MDI window 
holds the menu bar, unlike the SDI model in which each document window 
has its own menu bar.

There's an argument that MDI most closely parallels the Mac experience, 
since the Mac also has a single menu bar.  But with the advent of OS X 
that's where the similarities end:  in Mac Classic windows for a given 
app were in their own layer, and moving one forward brought all of them 
forward, which is what you get when moving an MDI window forward.  But 
OS X now has interleaved windows, so that apart from having a single 
menu bar Mac apps generally have more in common with the SDI or Project 
models.

It's useful to note that MDI is for viewing multiple documents, and is 
not necessarily appropriate for all multi-window designs.  Interfaces 
that provide multiple windows as different views into a single document 
file are addressed by the Project windowing model, which the Rev IDE uses.


Case Study: HyperRESEARCH
-------------------------
I have had only one app which would have benefitted from MDI, and the 
workaround is not pretty:  make a detached toolbar/menu window and 
position it along the top, using the backdrop to hide other apps.  That 
app (HyperRESEARCH) is most accurately described as a hybrid between 
this quasi-MDI model and the Project model (for viewing different 
elements of a single document we have one window for displaying 
transcriptions, another for cataloging citations of those 
transcriptions, another for listing the conceptual labels used for 
marking those citations, and another for annotations associated with the 
citations).

While HyperRESEARCH's design is inherently a perfect match for the HIG's 
Project model, users slammed us for not providing the conveniences 
afforded by MDI (rightfully so, IMO, even though we were fully 
HIG-compliant with the Project model).  Our emulating some of those MDI 
appearances and behaviors was a response to those requests, chiefly that 
there be a way to hide other apps and to minimize everything at once.

The toolbar+backdrop kludge is a far cry from the useful behaviors of 
MDI, which include being able to have the MDI parent window not 
maximized so one can easily switch to other apps by clicking on them 
directly rather than relying on the taskbar alone.

Also, an MDI parent window will of course hide all of its sub-windows 
when minimized, but to emulate this behavior you'll need to trap the 
iconify message in the toolbar window and minimize all your subwindows 
in script, which results in each of them having their own tab in the 
task bar (MDI gives you just one tab for the parent window, keeping 
things simple and clean).


Moving Beyond MDI
-----------------
Since the advent of OS X I don't bother with emulating MDI, as it 
doesn't address interleaving for managing windows on non-M$ platforms. 
Instead, we're migrating HyperRESEARCH to a panelled design in which 
what were separate windows in older versions will become resizable 
panels in a single window (a la Outlook Express, Mozilla, iMovie, etc.).

In addition to simplifying the user's workspace, the extra benefit of 
migrating the former hybrid Project/quasi-MDI model to a panelled SDI is 
that we save a fair amount of screen real estate by not having all those 
window title bars (32px * the number of windows * the width of each). 
Also, having everything associated with a given file in one window 
allows us to have multiple windows open; in a Project model it would be 
difficult to keep track of which window is viewing which file.

One could argue that a panelled single window is the more modern 
alternative to designs that use multiple windows for different views 
associated with a single file.  Apple seems to think so, with iMovie, 
iDVD, iPhoto, iTunes and others using mostly one window for everything, 
with the occassional dialog for less common tasks (I tend to design in 
ways that avoid platform-specific elements like Drawers).

While panels give you a better alternative to the Project model, they 
don't address those apps in which it's beneficial to have all documents 
together in the same application space (though I can't think of any 
offhand).

However, until we get a reliable method for notifying an app when a 
document is double-clicked (AFAIK Micro$oft provides no API for this, 
creating a second instance of the app instead), the usefulness of MDI is 
hampered.  M$ suugests we use MDI where needed, but makes it 
unnecessarily difficult to do so.  Fortunately it's not needed often.


Summary: Alternatives to MDI often make a cleaner UI
----------------------------------------------------
While MDI is sometimes useful and for the sake of completeness I feel 
Rev should support it, I prefer to use SDI for single-view documents and 
extend that with panels for replacing the multi-view Project model. 
True, M$ Office relies on MDI extensively, but application suites are a 
special case with unusually high needs for interaction among separate 
documents, and no one complains about Internet Explorer's cleaner and 
simpler SDI.  And with OS X's interleaved windows Apple is leading the 
way with a trend toward panelled single-window interfaces on that OS.

SuperCard users like myself may find the transition from multi-window 
views to panelled views unintuitive at first, if only because SC does a 
fine job in supporting multiple windows (with some features Rev has yet 
to match, like having different tool modes for different toplevel 
windows) but provides no equivalent of Rev's group object needed for 
many panelled designs, such as those in which a given panel must be 
scrollable independently of other panels.

Andrew, does your app use multiple windows for separate documents, or 
for different views into the same document?

If the former you may find SDI sufficient, and if the latter you may 
find moving the contents of those auxilliary windows into groups within 
a single window will simply your user experience.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Mon Aug  9 15:26:54 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:26:54 -0400
Subject: User Contributions on our website
Message-ID: <OFDE6204AF.017A2EE2-ON85256EEB.006A0864@sealedair.com>

> ...We would like to encourage the authors of the remaining contributions 
and
> new contributions to upload them to Revonline...

You are referring to Revonline in the beta 2.5 correct? Without access 
from inside a corporate firewall, Revonline is useless to me (at work 
anyway). In the preferences, I enter my proxy information just as I do for 
web browsers. Browsers can get out once they have prompted me for 
authentication info. Revonline never prompts for authentication, therefore 
never reaches the server. It works fine from home though.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Aug  9 15:37:20 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:37:20 -0600
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <4117C924.4030509@fourthworld.com>
References: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com> <4117C924.4030509@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <87AF9498-EA3B-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 12:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> What are the concerns about the taskbar?  AFAIK it's not possible to  
> do MDI at all in Rev today, though there is a proposal for its  
> implementation (see  
> <http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi? 
> id=1928>).

"At all" might be too strong.

Maybe there is no easy way to make an arbitrary stack a child window,  
but for many applications a "document" can be represented in a way that  
looks like a child window.

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  9 16:29:08 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 13:29:08 -0700
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <87AF9498-EA3B-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com> <4117C924.4030509@fourthworld.com>
	<87AF9498-EA3B-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4117DE94.1050901@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> 
> On Aug 9, 2004, at 12:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> What are the concerns about the taskbar?  AFAIK it's not possible to  
>> do MDI at all in Rev today, though there is a proposal for its  
>> implementation (see  
>> <http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi? 
>> id=1928>).
> 
> 
> "At all" might be too strong.
> 
> Maybe there is no easy way to make an arbitrary stack a child window,  
> but for many applications a "document" can be represented in a way that  
> looks like a child window.

Yes, there are various ways to get some of the appearance and behavior 
of MDI, but they are not a true MDI asds described in the Win HIG:

<http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/ch10g.asp>

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug  9 16:29:51 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 15:29:51 -0500
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <4117C924.4030509@fourthworld.com>
References: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com> <4117C924.4030509@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4117DEBF.8000501@chipp.com>

IMO, a MDI interface: one which has multiple windows floating inside 
another window, is a big turn-off. I think it's just plain difficult to 
use and I try my best to avoid all products which have such an 
interface. Besides, as Richard says, it seems outdated - as Mac and PC 
apps alike seem to prefer the panelled view.

I would encourage RR to spend it's valuable resources elsewhere.

-Chipp

From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug  9 16:37:04 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 15:37:04 -0500
Subject: memory - why isn't it getting freed
In-Reply-To: <000801c47e19$46ab2540$64fea8c0@chris1>
References: <000801c47e19$46ab2540$64fea8c0@chris1>
Message-ID: <4117E070.5070309@chipp.com>

Hi Chris,

Did you try 'delete stack'?

I've found this works when others like 'close stack' doesn't.

-Chipp

From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Aug  9 16:39:27 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:39:27 -0600
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <4117DE94.1050901@fourthworld.com>
References: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com> <4117C924.4030509@fourthworld.com>
	<87AF9498-EA3B-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4117DE94.1050901@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <34D1FAE6-EA44-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 2:29 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Yes, there are various ways to get some of the appearance and behavior 
> of MDI, but they are not a true MDI asds described in the Win HIG:

I would admit that a Win HIG MDI would be more work, but that is a 
matter of effort, not a matter of kind.  One problem might be matching 
the system buttons of the host.

Dar Scott


From revlist at cableone.net  Mon Aug  9 16:48:22 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:48:22 -0600
Subject: memory - why isn't it getting freed
In-Reply-To: <4117E070.5070309@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <001701c47e52$36361ab0$64fea8c0@chris1>

Yes, I'm using 'delete stack'.  The weird thing is that the memory does not
appear to get freed, even when using that, at least not completely.  I'm
just monitoring memory using Activity Monitor on OS X and Windows Task
Manager under Windows XP.  As I watch the memory usage of my application, it
just continues to build up and up, even though I'm "deleting" any and all
stacks that are not in use.

Chris Sheffield
Software Developer
Read Naturally


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Chipp Walters
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 2:37 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: memory - why isn't it getting freed
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> Did you try 'delete stack'?
> 
> I've found this works when others like 'close stack' doesn't.
> 
> -Chipp
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004
> 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004
 


From warren at howsoft.com  Mon Aug  9 16:39:02 2004
From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:39:02 -0300
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties - Thread Conclusion
Message-ID: <005101c47e52$9ad70f60$0301a8c0@john>

Colleagues:

Some days ago I published a "worst case scenario" account of what it might
be like for a VB programmer to make the switch to the Rev IDE and the
confusions he might encounter when presuming that the setup of distinct
project design /project testing existed as he had been used to. For those of
you who might have missed the thread, the original  illustrated story of the
VB programmer's demise is at http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/article.htm .

Of course, the question of VB programmers entering into the Rev world
touches on various other crucial issues under discussion at the moment, such
as the quality and availability of the Rev documents, whether or not Rev is
too MAC-centric, whether or not Rev should do more to attract non-MAC
clients, cross-platform technical issues, etc. Other colleagues are far more
qualified to discuss these issues than I am. However, from my own egocentric
point of view I have discovered that:

1. Although there are profounder aspects of the IDE's project testing
environment that I really do need to work at, I am still suffering mental
blocks over the denomination and inter-relationship of the Browse Tool,
Pointer Tool, Modeless (properties??) and "Top Level", together with the
fact that projects tested with the Browse Tool (or Modeless request) retain
their acquired properties.

2. I am not the only one to be confused. Some people with far more
experience in Rev and far less experience in VB do not understand the design
of the interface in these respects, but so far have had little trouble
because they have not asked too many questions. For example, I am perfectly
happy using my video cassette player by learning how to start, stop, rewind,
etc. All the other knobs and buttons I ignore. Or if I use Microsoft Word, I
can quite happily produce my texts by ignoring about 80% of the resources
available to me.

The procedure I am used to in VB makes me very happy, and unfortunately, has
become a precondition for my happiness:

1. Project design and project testing are totally separate modes.

2. I feel absolutely no need to include user data in my project. I prefer to
keep it separately on the HD or elsewhere. If necessary, I can bundle it
with my standalone program and distribute it as a single file, but this is
done separately and by other means. (However, it should be noted that Rebol
for example permits the mixing of program and user data in the same script,
and this is considered to be an advantage in some circumstances.)

3. I can work in the following manner: Program a bit / Test it / Program a
bit more / Test it / Program a bit more / Test it
....................................... This particular characteristic is so
valuable that anything which prevented me from doing it easily would upset
me to say the least.

Some people have pointed out that Rev is different to VB, being born in the
MAC tradition. Rev means MAC, and proudly so, so welcome to Macintosh and
roll up your sleeves. If I were the average VB programmer (which I am not),
I would simply say "OK, bye-bye". What does the average man do when his
favourite program ends on the TV and he doesn't fancy watching the next one?
He takes a quick look at all the other channels. And how does he judge
whether he will switch to another channel? I don't know about you, but I
usually make up my mind in a few seconds. Is it the type of program I am
looking for? What is the overall quality of the pictures I take a glimpse
at? Do I like the actors' faces? Or perhaps I am looking for something
completely different to the program I have been watching, or not. So all
this relates back to whether Rev is interested in occupying a conservative
niche of about 10% of the overall market, or whether it considers that it
needs to expand (and really capture potential users such as myself) in order
to survive.

These things said, I would like to introduce you to an absolutely brilliant
analysis of the initial difficulties I encountered with the Rev IDE. It was
sent to me by Ken Ray, and it appears below. But for those of you who missed
the start of this thread, I should explain the following. The last 2
pictures of the article at http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/article.htm express
the idea of providing Rev with a mechanism for project testing in the VB
manner I have described. Troy Rollins thinks that (even as a beginner) I
could quite easily produce the plugin stack depicted there. I might well try
to do it. But Ken has an important observation to make about this question,
as you will see. Within a few days, I will put Ken's analysis on my site at
http://www.howsoft.com/runrev, since it is so useful. There are even
indications that Ken intends to pursue the Rev/VB comparison further and
that perhaps many more useful insights are in the pipeline. Anyway, here is
Ken's analysis:

(Bob, I'm writing this to you "off list" - if you feel that it should be "on
list", feel free to post it or to tell me it's OK to post it.)

>> If you really need it, you could do it.
>
> That was exactly what I had in mind, except that I am a complete beginner
in
> RR and I was a bit nervous about attempting such a thing as a first
> programming effort.

I agree, Bob... you shouldn't have to try to develop a plugin as your first
programming effort, considering the trouble you went through to understand
the pointer/browse dynamic in the first place.

To me, something like this is like a conversion program that converts from
one xTalk to another - once it is used it is no longer needed. As you said,
until such a time as you can apprecite the "persistent properties" (which is
really the result of a unified design+run mode), you would like a tool like
this. Which implies that once you "get there", you won't need it anymore.

I printed out your article and read it over in detail to see what I could
glean from your experience. Here's what I discovered:

1) Coming from a VB background, you naturally looked for a way to assign a
value to a property for an object. So much like in VB where you'd do:

  TextBox1.Text = "Hello World!"

I'm assuming you looked for a "text" property of a Rev field, found it, and
decided to test it:

  set the text of Field 1 to "Hello World!"

Which worked (of course). But it seems that without guidance, the whole
concept of "containers" (e.g. a field as a container for text data) was
missed, and the whole "put"/"get" approach was not explained. This is how it
is "normally" done:

  put "Hello World!" into field 1

Those who come from an xTalk background already have this under their belt,
but non-xTalk programmers do not.

POINT #1: RunRev needs to document better the container concept, along with
its "set the <property>" alternatives.

2) You assumed that there was the classic "design mode" and "run mode", and
so went off down the path of looking for a way to toggle between the two
(this was stated by me in an earlier post). But rather than discover that
there *aren't* two modes, you mistakenly assumed that the "browse tool mode"
is one mode and the "pointer tool mode" is the other mode. This is certainly
a very understandable mistake, as you pointed out  - you were looking for a
way to test your project and you found it. But that brings me to the next
point:

POINT #2: RunRev needs to explain clearly the "single mode with different
tools" approach, and not merely assume that everyone will "get it". In fact,
only xTalk programmers from other tools will "get it" - everyone else will
have to make a conceptual shift.

3) After migrating from MetaCard to Rev, you ran the same test and for some
reason couldn't find the browse tool in the tool palette. I'm curious - why
did this happen? MetaCard's tools were in the toolbar and Rev's were in a
palette, but it doesn't seem to me that there is that much of a cognitive
shift between the two. Is it because of the similarity to the move tool in
Photoshop?

You eventually went down the path of using the Application Browser to do
"Go" (which just displays the card you selected; the currently selected tool
doesn't change - which is why you thought nothing happened).

By choosing "Modeless", you invoked a mode that forced the stack window to
effectively close and reopen *as a dialog box*. Modal and modeless dialogs
automatically get the browse tool regardless of what is the currently active
tool.

POINT #3: RunRev needs to explain clearly how different stack modes change
the tool selection.

4) You hunted around and found the Property Inspector and used that to clear
the text of the field. You were unaware that you could use the browse tool
to click and select the text in the field and hit the delete key to remove
it (unless the field was locked through the 'lockText' property being set to
true, but I'm assuming that wasn't the case).

Once again a disconnect between modes - thinking in "two modes", it wouldn't
make any sense to wipe and delete the text, because as soon as you return to
"design mode", whatever changes you had made would be irrelevant (as they
are in VB). However thinking in "one mode", where the field's contents are
there regardless of tool chosen, it would make *perfect* sense to switch to
browse tool and wipe the text and delete it. Of course this wouldn't affect
the stack when it started up again unless you saved it first, but at this
point in the story, that is not the most important thing.

(see POINT #2)

5) You discovered that RunRev didn't have good drawing tools or
antialiasing. Yup... that about covers it. :-)

6) Instead of counting sheep, you repeated the mantra:

RUN - BROWSE TOOL - POINTING FINGER - MODELESS
STOP - SELECT CONTROLS - DIAGONAL ARROW - TOP LEVEL

Can I assume that now you know the mantra is:

  BROWSE TOOL - POINTING FINGER
  POINTER TOOL - DIAGONAL ARROE

And that there isn't really a "run" and "stop", and that the "modeless" and
"toplevel" are ways of displaying stacks and don't really correlate to
browse/pointer?

If not, let me know and I'll be happy to explain them. The reason why there
isn't really a "run" and "stop" is that even with the pointer tool selected,
scripts can still run. It's just that you usually can't *activate* most
handlers because they depend on the browse tool. For example, "mouseUp" is
one of those that depends on the browse tool - "mouseEnter" (the message
sent when the mouse enters the rectangle of the object) is activated
regardless of tool.

Try this:

- Create a button in Rev. Edit the script so it has this code:

on mouseUp
  beep
end mouseUp

on mouseEnter
  beep
end mouseEnter

Then switch to browse tool. As your mouse enters the button you will hear a
beep. Click the button and you'll hear another beep.

Then move the mouse out of the button area and switch to pointer tool. As
your mouse enters the button you will hear a beep. Click on the button and
the button will be selected, but will not beep.

So you see, there isn't a "mode" in Rev where NO scripts run. Scripts run
due to messages being sent to specific objects, and these messages get sent
all the time, *sometimes* dependent on what tool you have chosen. There are
methods to "lock messages" temporarily so that certain messages are
prevented from being sent, but there is no way to lock all the messages
forever (or until a specific action has taken place). The best that can be
done is to create a "frontscript" (I'll explain this later if you like) that
can trap and absorb all of these messages and not pass them through to other
stack objects.

POINT #4: RunRev needs to understand, document and make easily available a
set of instructions to guide programmers from other environments to being
able to understand how Rev is used. It can't just assume that everyone will
"get it", or will know where to find things in the docs or even *go* to the
online docs. After first time installation, it should not just bring up a
"tip of the day" window, but should provide a wizard that asks the user
their past experience and guides them to finding the right data in the docs.

Bob, the Rev documentation is really very good - most of the problems that
people have had with it are that sometimes the information is in a
non-intuitive place, or that an imporatnt concept is buried several levels
down and hard to get to. This is the exception and not the rule, though.

For example, when I opened the docs and clicked on "Welcome to Revolution",
the first thing that greeted me is "What describes you best?" with a list of
different places one could have come from. When I clicked on "experienced
traditional language programmer" there was a wealth of information on making
the conceptual shift between traditional languages and Rev.

So it's not that the information isn't *there*, it's just that it is not
where it needs to be, IMHO, for the beginning user.

Anyway, that's my take on things,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com












From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  9 16:53:00 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:53:00 -0400
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <4117DEBF.8000501@chipp.com>
References: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com> <4117C924.4030509@fourthworld.com>
	<4117DEBF.8000501@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <19D0A444-EA46-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 4:29 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> IMO, a MDI interface: one which has multiple windows floating inside 
> another window, is a big turn-off. I think it's just plain difficult 
> to use and I try my best to avoid all products which have such an 
> interface. Besides, as Richard says, it seems outdated - as Mac and PC 
> apps alike seem to prefer the panelled view.
>
> I would encourage RR to spend it's valuable resources elsewhere.

I agree. For one thing, it is a serious hindrance for users with 
multiple monitors.

Speaking of... perhaps the time saved on NOT bothering with MDI can be 
spent improving multiple monitor support.  ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  9 16:57:08 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 13:57:08 -0700
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <34D1FAE6-EA44-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com> <4117C924.4030509@fourthworld.com>
	<87AF9498-EA3B-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4117DE94.1050901@fourthworld.com>
	<34D1FAE6-EA44-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4117E524.2020806@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:
> On Aug 9, 2004, at 2:29 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Yes, there are various ways to get some of the appearance and behavior 
>> of MDI, but they are not a true MDI asds described in the Win HIG:
> 
> I would admit that a Win HIG MDI would be more work, but that is a 
> matter of effort, not a matter of kind.  One problem might be matching 
> the system buttons of the host.

That's the least of it.  Take a second look at the spec:
<http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/ch10g.asp>

There is nothing that behaves like an MDI parent window in Rev, with the 
ability to constrain child windows within it, allow the docking behavior 
we see when maximizing child windows within it, and more.

About the only way I can think of to do anything close to that would be 
to emulate all of the child windows as groups, but it would be very 
challenging to make those emulated windows look and feel like real windows.

You got a secret method you're willing to share? :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug  9 17:00:29 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:00:29 -0500
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <19D0A444-EA46-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com> <4117C924.4030509@fourthworld.com>
	<4117DEBF.8000501@chipp.com>
	<19D0A444-EA46-11D8-B3F3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <4117E5ED.9020204@chipp.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:

> Speaking of... perhaps the time saved on NOT bothering with MDI can be 
> spent improving multiple monitor support.  ;-)

Now I'd vote for that!

From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  9 17:03:52 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 18:03:52 -0300
Subject: question about httpProxy prop.
Message-ID: <9E45D14F-EA47-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I am having trouble with http connections with a project of mine. I 
just discovered that my client uses a Proxy and I am using a http 
"tunnel" for my DB calls. Is it possible that the proxy might be 
cacheing the answers thus responding with out of date results? When I 
set the httpProxy property to a proxy, does it last till the engine 
closes or it reverts to empty after handler finishes?

It's strange for I tested this program in 6 machines, in friends houses 
with DSL, in other companies and there, on their machine lab, it does 
not work... or worse, it works in some machines and it doesn't in 
others... very strange.

Andre

-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Aug  9 17:06:57 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:06:57 -0600
Subject: MDI kind
In-Reply-To: <4117E524.2020806@fourthworld.com>
References: <6b.3058cd41.2e48fe3f@aol.com> <4117C924.4030509@fourthworld.com>
	<87AF9498-EA3B-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4117DE94.1050901@fourthworld.com>
	<34D1FAE6-EA44-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4117E524.2020806@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <0CA02668-EA48-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 2:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> About the only way I can think of to do anything close to that would 
> be to emulate all of the child windows as groups, but it would be very 
> challenging to make those emulated windows look and feel like real 
> windows.
>
> You got a secret method you're willing to share? :)

I concede to "very challenging", well, maybe "challenging".

Dar


From Meitnik at aol.com  Mon Aug  9 17:21:08 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:21:08 EDT
Subject: more mdi
Message-ID: <1e2.27813b62.2e4944c4@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/9/04 4:49:46 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
writes:


> does your app use multiple windows for separate documents, or
> for different views into the same document?
> -- 3 palettes, 1 menubar, and 1 toplevel stack as templete for cloning as a 
document for content for diffrent docs.
> 
> If the former you may find SDI sufficient, and if the latter you may
> find moving the contents of those auxilliary windows into groups within
> a single window will simply your user experience.\
> -- yep, if I was not fighting a deadline, I would rewrite   my doc stack as a 
grp with fake titlebars etc..but am concerned for preformane on lower end MS 
boxs. At this point in time, I am accepting Gates' branding of my documents 
just to so something for MDI and access to taskbar. 
There is a good chance I maybe forced to ship the Mac version first and get 
RealBasic to the Windows verison a year later, eating lost sales on Windoze and 
making it very difficult to justify renewing RR in 6 months at 500!.

Thanks for your help and well worded explaining of MDI for all. 

Andrew



From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Aug  9 17:43:02 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:43:02 -0600
Subject: question about httpProxy prop.
In-Reply-To: <9E45D14F-EA47-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <9E45D14F-EA47-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <16B6F5A0-EA4D-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 3:03 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Is it possible that the proxy might be cacheing the answers thus 
> responding with out of date results?

Yes.  You can minimize the problem with some header settings if you can 
control that end.  However, a perverse proxy policy can override that.  
Also, a proxy might "learn" what is interesting to clients and try to 
prefetch.

Dar Scott


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  9 17:51:10 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 18:51:10 -0300
Subject: question about httpProxy prop.
In-Reply-To: <16B6F5A0-EA4D-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <9E45D14F-EA47-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<16B6F5A0-EA4D-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <39963F30-EA4E-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 6:43 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> Yes.  You can minimize the problem with some header settings if you 
> can control that end.  However, a perverse proxy policy can override 
> that.  Also, a proxy might "learn" what is interesting to clients and 
> try to prefetch.
>
> Dar Scott

Dar,

thanks for the answer. I can control the http headers (in both request 
and response), what kind of headers can help me minimize the problem, 
plz!

Learning proxies... damn technology... :D

Cheers
andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug  9 17:56:46 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:56:46 -0500
Subject: ActiveX and RR
Message-ID: <4117F31E.8040702@chipp.com>

Spent some talking with Chris today about ActiveX controls inside of RunRev.

Some on the list here have posited the notion that RR can't be taken 
seriously as a tool until (among other things) it has ActiveX support. 
While this may indeed be true, it is worth examining what really *is* 
ActiveX support and how does a product like RB 'support' it?

(Note: I expect this argument may also be true for Director, though I'm 
not positive. Perhaps Troy can shed some light).

Regarding ActiveX (from Chris):

1) He believes it's easy to add (in fact, we have a ActiveX instantiator 
in our XConnector code for Hemingway) with the following caveats:

a) You would need to know the CLSID of the ActiveX control you wanted to 
add (this could probably be done inside of RR using a Registry browser 
function).

b) You could display the ActiveX control/player easily on a card

c) You could set properties and call methods (assume you know the 
correct syntax)

All this is well and good...and in fact is how RB deals with them. The 
two major hard parts are:

1) 'event trapping' or sending events back and forth across the RR boundary.

2) 'type marshalling' or converting RR strings to the appropriate 
Windows API type.

The first can be done thru custom code in an external or an engine 
modification. Type marshalling is a bit more difficult and would make 
sense to have an engine modification in order to do this properly. 
Things like pointer handles and arrays are most difficult. This would 
mean we would need some way to convert strings to variants. Plus, 
there's the whole issue of unicode which makes things even harder...

Chris' opinion is that RB provides a subset of ActiveX support and 
doesn't handle the 'events' completely-- and that is why they have their 
'own' grids, tables, etc and don't use standard ActiveX ones (I assume 
the same is true for Director and 'Xtras'). It is also the reason why 
altBrowser is a custom external and not just an instantiatiated ActiveX 
wrapper.

So, to recap, it appears it would be fairly easy to have an 'ActiveX' 
wrapper external which could call ActiveX DLLs. But, the DLL it calls 
would not actually 'trap' events, but rather only have props set and 
methods called. How functional is this? Well, for one it could work as a 
player for different 'players' like Flash, IE, Acrobat,Excel, as long as 
you don't need callbacks...which is of limited use because most 
programmers want to 'get' the event messaging.

In fact, if one peruses the RB list, you will find instances of users 
being able to 'call' to the Windows Media Player and start playing a 
video. But, to able to respond to the video via callbacks, etc, is not 
supported.

Interesting, in talking with Jerry Daniels and Chris about this, the 
very first question they had was "What do you want to do which isn't 
currently supported?" Ken Ray has offered some good suggestions 
regarding existing ActiveX tables, grids and treeLists. But, to my 
knowledge, adding the full functionality of these ActiveX controls are 
difficult (if not impossible) both in RB and RR (and I assume Director 
as well).

Lastly, for those who have gotten this far:-) and think of ActiveX 
support a 'have2have' feature, I am wondering...How much would you 
consider paying for it? Or would you expect it to be in the 'Enterprise' 
version of RR?

-Chipp

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug  9 18:05:49 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 17:05:49 -0500
Subject: Target and me.  Target not the correct value
In-Reply-To: <2D9FEB0F-E9AA-11D8-8C5B-000A95A05246@limelight.com.au>
References: <20040808223823.AC06593005F@mail.runrev.com>
	<2D9FEB0F-E9AA-11D8-8C5B-000A95A05246@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <4117F53D.5020506@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/8/04 9:16 PM, Matt Denton wrote:

> Confusingly, just 'target' (no 'the') returns the value correctly; 'the 
> value of the target' doesn't when there is a duplicate name.

One thing to note is that "target" and "the target" are two different 
things. This is a HyperCard construct and has been in xtalk languages 
since 1987, so changing it would probably break a lot of stacks. 
However, it can be confusing.

"The target" is a function that identifies the object that originated 
the message. "Target" refers to the text in the object (usually a field.)

Create a stack with a field, and put this into the card script:

  on keydown
   put the target && target
   pass keydown
  end keydown

The above needs refining for actual use, but should give you an idea of 
how it all works.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug  9 18:08:51 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 17:08:51 -0500
Subject: memory - why isn't it getting freed
In-Reply-To: <000801c47e19$46ab2540$64fea8c0@chris1>
References: <000801c47e19$46ab2540$64fea8c0@chris1>
Message-ID: <4117F5F3.5080300@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/9/04 9:00 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote:

> Can anyone tell me the reasons for memory not getting freed up like it
> should?
> 
> I have an application that consists of a login stack, another main stack
> where most of the program functionality occurs, and then several other
> external stacks (stored as compressed data in a Valentina database) that
> contain multimedia content such as graphics, audio files, text, etc.  These
> stacks get extracted from the database, decompressed, and then accessed to
> retrieve that content.  The problem is, when I?m done with these external
> stacks, I use the delete stack command, which should remove them from
> memory, but it doesn?t.  I have checked every function I can think of
> (revLoadedStacks, openStacks, stacksInUse, etc.) to see if Rev thinks these
> stacks are still open in some way, but that is not the case.  The memory
> just doesn?t get freed.  It doesn?t return to normal until I completely exit
> my application.  This is not a good thing because used memory keeps building
> up and up, until eventually the application crashes because the system has
> run out of memory.
> 
> This is a serious problem, and I?m not sure if it?s something I?m doing
> wrong, or if I?ve discovered some bug in Rev.  So what I?m wondering is,
> what would cause memory to not get freed the way it should?  Files that the
> stacks might have open perhaps?  But if that were the case, why would the
> stack not appear when using one of the above functions?  Anything else?

Does this happen only in the IDE, or in the standalone as well? If it is 
only in the IDE, then it may be that Rev's preferences are set to keep 
the stack open regardless of what command is used to close it. Rev will 
override the close command and the destroystack property when this 
preference is set.

If it is happening in a standalone, then I'm afraid I don't know why. I 
haven't seen that behavior, but then, I haven't specifically checked for 
it either.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  9 18:20:11 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 15:20:11 -0700
Subject: more mdi
In-Reply-To: <1e2.27813b62.2e4944c4@aol.com>
References: <1e2.27813b62.2e4944c4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4117F89B.4080204@fourthworld.com>

Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

 >> does your app use multiple windows for separate documents, or
 >> for different views into the same document?
 >
 >-- 3 palettes, 1 menubar, and 1 toplevel stack as templete for cloning
 > as a document for content for diffrent docs.
 >
 >> If the former you may find SDI sufficient, and if the latter you may
 >> find moving the contents of those auxilliary windows into groups
 >> within a single window will simply your user experience.
 >
 >-- yep, if I was not fighting a deadline, I would rewrite   my doc
 > stack as a grp with fake titlebars etc..but am concerned for
 > preformane on lower end MS boxs. At this point in time, I am
 > accepting Gates' branding of my documents just to so something
 > for MDI and access to taskbar.
 > There is a good chance I maybe forced to ship the Mac version first
 > and get RealBasic to the Windows verison a year later, eating lost
 > sales on Windoze and making it very difficult to justify renewing
 > RR in 6 months at 500!.
 >
 > Thanks for your help and well worded explaining of MDI for all.

It may be worth a second read.  The thrust of my post was that MDI is 
very rarely needed, most often replaceable with SDI which also provides 
a simpler user experience.

Your palettes are fine with SDI; palettes and other non-document windows 
are not addressed distinctly in the MDI model, which deals exclusively 
with providing a parent window to contain multiple documents.

MDI appears to be a holdover from the Win 3.1 days, and as Ken just 
pointed out to me on the phone, not even M$ Word uses it:  While Word 
documents open within a parent window, opening a second document -- even 
from within the program -- will spawn a second parent window for it, 
ignoring their own description of MDI behaviors and acting like an SDI 
instead.

So if Micro$oft is any indication, it seems the world is migrating away 
from MDI.  It's needlessly complex to interact with, new users find the 
dual window controls confusing, and it provides few if any measurable 
benefits for the user over SDI.

What is the benefit of an MDI parent window for the app you're building?
Is whatever benefit there may be strong enough to triple your 
development costs by writing and maintaining a second code base in a 
lower-level language?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Aug  9 18:19:44 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:19:44 -0600
Subject: ActiveX and RR
In-Reply-To: <4117F31E.8040702@chipp.com>
References: <4117F31E.8040702@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <37924FB6-EA52-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 3:56 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Regarding ActiveX (from Chris):
>
> 1) He believes it's easy to add (in fact, we have a ActiveX 
> instantiator in our XConnector code for Hemingway) with the following 
> caveats:
>
> a) You would need to know the CLSID of the ActiveX control you wanted 
> to add (this could probably be done inside of RR using a Registry 
> browser function).


> b) You could display the ActiveX control/player easily on a card

Many automation COM services do not need a control.  I realize that 
most folks want the control, but where I could have used this over the 
past couple years, I have not needed the control.

> c) You could set properties and call methods (assume you know the 
> correct syntax)
>
> All this is well and good...and in fact is how RB deals with them. The 
> two major hard parts are:
>
> 1) 'event trapping' or sending events back and forth across the RR 
> boundary.

The calls should be more straightforward.  The callbacks may be a 
problem and there may be a need to get across a thread boundary.  In 
looking at similar problems, I think the Revolution app may need to 
poll for the callbacks.

> 2) 'type marshalling' or converting RR strings to the appropriate 
> Windows API type.
>
> The first can be done thru custom code in an external or an engine 
> modification. Type marshalling is a bit more difficult and would make 
> sense to have an engine modification in order to do this properly. 
> Things like pointer handles and arrays are most difficult. This would 
> mean we would need some way to convert strings to variants.

I don't think this is as bad as it sounds.  The first step is to come 
up with the right mapping of types.  The pointers are known and are not 
arbitrary so a scheme can be set up for those.  The implementation step 
might be tedious but half can be done in transcript.

> Plus, there's the whole issue of unicode which makes things even 
> harder...

Well, Revolution does handle unicode values and for the first version 
it might be OK to assume ASCII.

Such a thing would have been handy for some DCOM work over the past 
couple years, but I don't know how much that might come up again.  I 
have toyed with the idea of a generic dll interface, but that has crash 
risks if the developer gets the interface wrong.

I have found COM to be tedious.  That might mean more work for whomever 
builds this, but it will mean less work (if done well) for others.

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  9 18:28:57 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 15:28:57 -0700
Subject: Target and me.  Target not the correct value
In-Reply-To: <4117F53D.5020506@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <20040808223823.AC06593005F@mail.runrev.com>
	<2D9FEB0F-E9AA-11D8-8C5B-000A95A05246@limelight.com.au>
	<4117F53D.5020506@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4117FAA9.4000400@fourthworld.com>

On 8/8/04 9:16 PM, Matt Denton wrote:
> 
> Confusingly, just 'target' (no 'the') returns the value correctly; 
> 'the value of the target' doesn't when there is a duplicate name.

The target returns the long ID, so by itself it's an unambiguous unique 
reference.

The problem doesn't appear to be with the target; it seems to be a 
side-effect of the IDE naming objects for you using a name that also 
evaluates to a valid object descriptor (e.g., "field 1").

If you simply get the target you should be fine.  You don't need to 
evaluate it, which is where it seems the problem is, since the name of 
the object evaluates to a descriptor for another object.

If you want to specify the text of the target you can use the 
unambiguous form:

   get the text of the target

Try changing the name to something that isn't also a valid object 
descriptor and your script may work just fine as is.  If not, try simply 
getting the text of the target and it'll work well.  But either way, 
you'll find the target is a reliable absolute reference when used 
without the value function.

Who wants to post a Bugzilla request to have the IDE use default names 
for objects that are not also valid object references?  Perhaps better 
still, why not just leave the name empty until the user adds one?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  9 18:31:58 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:31:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (;-) = ?
In-Reply-To: <9BB3E90C-E9E9-11D8-95AE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20040809223158.75892.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

> OK, i think i have to put something clear!
> 
> That is a FAKE actually!!!

was ist denn ein ersatz was denn?


Erich

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  9 18:35:49 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 15:35:49 -0700
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties - Thread Conclusion
In-Reply-To: <005101c47e52$9ad70f60$0301a8c0@john>
References: <005101c47e52$9ad70f60$0301a8c0@john>
Message-ID: <4117FC45.10205@fourthworld.com>

Bob Warren wrote:

> Although there are profounder aspects of the IDE's project testing
> environment that I really do need to work at, I am still suffering mental
> blocks over the denomination and inter-relationship of the Browse Tool,
> Pointer Tool, Modeless (properties??) and "Top Level", together with the
> fact that projects tested with the Browse Tool (or Modeless request) retain
> their acquired properties.

The best place to start:

1. Choose "Documentation" from the Help menu
2. Click "Learning Revolution: Welcome to Revolution"
3. Under "Which described you best?" choose
    "Experienced traditional language programmer"


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From cteno4 at earthlink.net  Mon Aug  9 18:45:36 2004
From: cteno4 at earthlink.net (cteno4)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 18:45:36 -0400
Subject: Standalone Creation problems
Message-ID: <20040809223731.0F80F9300EA@mail.runrev.com>

I am having problems with rev 221 to create a mac standalone from a mc 
stack. I had moved it back into mc and removed all the resources (ie 
answer and ask dialogs). this fixed the message box problem i had with 
the stack in rev.

new problem is that when i go to create a standalone application in rev 
now (after working for a few days in rev on the stack) i get a beep after 
the stack window closes and reopens with the dialog "there was an error 
while saving standalone application". i only get a text file of about 
128K w/o the build folders being created or the applications in them.

I have created a new stack in rev and sucessfully created the mac and win 
applications, but have no luck with my metacard stack that i have moved 
over to rev. 

I have tried doing a save as in rev before the build, restarting, upping 
revs memory... trying to build on system 922 mac to create a mac PPC 
standalone.

any ideas?

thanks

jeff


Jeffrey H. Reynolds
6620 Michaels Dr.
Bethesda, MD  20817

301.469.8562

email: cteno4 at earthlink.net
       cteno4 at aol.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug  9 18:49:52 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 17:49:52 -0500
Subject: Standalone Creation problems
In-Reply-To: <20040809223731.0F80F9300EA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040809223731.0F80F9300EA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4117FF90.5090606@chipp.com>

Jeff,

Try saving your standalone in a brand new folder and not an existing one.

-Chipp

From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Aug  9 18:52:42 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:52:42 -0600
Subject: question about httpProxy prop.
In-Reply-To: <39963F30-EA4E-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <9E45D14F-EA47-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<16B6F5A0-EA4D-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<39963F30-EA4E-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D29FB68C-EA56-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 3:51 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> thanks for the answer. I can control the http headers (in both request 
> and response), what kind of headers can help me minimize the problem, 
> plz!

Arg.  Memory...failing...  Try some of these:


    Expires <same as in date header to expire immediately>

This requires putting in a date like this:  Sat, 08 Aug 2008 12:30:23 
LDT


    Cache-control: no-cache

This can be in either client or server.  This is the easiest one to try.


    Pragma: no-cache
    Expires: 0

These are non standard, but some old proxies might only recognize one 
or both of these.


Dar Scott


From herz at ucsd.edu  Mon Aug  9 18:54:02 2004
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:54:02 -0700
Subject: Program Testing and Persistent Properties - Thread Conclusion
References: <20040809222917.D92E39300EC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <02c801c47e63$c4b7d2e0$58bfef84@maerkhpc1>

Bob Warren wrote:

> Some days ago I published a "worst case scenario" account of what it might
> be like for a VB programmer to make the switch to the Rev IDE and the
> confusions he might encounter when presuming that the setup of distinct
> project design /project testing existed as he had been used to. For those
of
> you who might have missed the thread, the original  illustrated story of
the
> VB programmer's demise is at http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/article.htm .

A small aspect of this is related to the design of the tools palette.  I
suggest that better graphics be added to show that the browse and pointer
(edit) tool buttons toggle each other. The current design in 2.5b1 of making
the selected button's arrow icon black is bad since the selected cursor icon
doesn't look like the active cursor!.  In addition, there should be a
stronger graphical connection between the pointer tool and the control
selection buttons below on the tools palette.  Perhaps the browse and
pointer buttons should be over/under each other, with the browse button on
top and the pointer on bottom next to the control selection buttons - or
have some other graphical feature "connecting" the pointer button to the
control buttons.  Perhaps the control selection buttons should dim when the
browse tool is selected.

Rich



From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  9 18:58:25 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:58:25 -0300
Subject: question about httpProxy prop.
In-Reply-To: <D29FB68C-EA56-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <9E45D14F-EA47-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<16B6F5A0-EA4D-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<39963F30-EA4E-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<D29FB68C-EA56-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <9EC0F28E-EA57-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>


Dar,

Thanks! I just changed the server code to include no-cache info... Hope 
that proxy dies! Also, hope that this is the source of all evil...

Thanks!
andre

On Aug 9, 2004, at 7:52 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Aug 9, 2004, at 3:51 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>> thanks for the answer. I can control the http headers (in both 
>> request and response), what kind of headers can help me minimize the 
>> problem, plz!
>
> Arg.  Memory...failing...  Try some of these:
>
>
>    Expires <same as in date header to expire immediately>
>
> This requires putting in a date like this:  Sat, 08 Aug 2008 12:30:23 
> LDT
>
>
>    Cache-control: no-cache
>
> This can be in either client or server.  This is the easiest one to 
> try.
>
>
>    Pragma: no-cache
>    Expires: 0
>
> These are non standard, but some old proxies might only recognize one 
> or both of these.
>
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug  9 18:58:12 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 17:58:12 -0500
Subject: question about httpProxy prop.
In-Reply-To: <39963F30-EA4E-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <9E45D14F-EA47-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<16B6F5A0-EA4D-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<39963F30-EA4E-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <41180184.6060901@chipp.com>

Andre,

1) Do you know what type of authentication your proxy server is using?
2) Are you 'not connecting' or just getting empty data back?

If you're getting empty data back you might try:

repeat 5 times
   get URL "http://myandre.com/test.htm"
   if it is not empty then
      answer "Got it!: " & it
   end if
end repeat

sometimes it takes a couple trys to get through some firewalls/proxy 
servers. I've used this successfully on high latency proxy servers.

If you find out you're using Basic Authentication, then Dave Cragg has a 
new version of libURL which supports both Basic and NTLM authentication. 
If you need the NTLM authentication, then contact me offlist and I'll 
send you a NTLM.dll external.

best,

Chipp

From tuviah at runrev.com  Mon Aug  9 19:00:10 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:00:10 -0400
Subject: feature requests
References: <20040809222918.1CDDB9300EF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <01ac01c47e64$9fc984f0$1602a8c0@athlon>

>About the only way I can think of to do anything close to that would be
>to emulate all of the child windows as groups, but it would be very
>challenging to make those emulated windows look and feel like real windows.
MDI, ActiveX how many people need these vs things like answer file with
extension. Seems not many from looking at the bugzilla votes. If you want
these features, vote for them:-)

Tuviah


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug  9 19:06:35 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 18:06:35 -0500
Subject: feature requests
In-Reply-To: <01ac01c47e64$9fc984f0$1602a8c0@athlon>
References: <20040809222918.1CDDB9300EF@mail.runrev.com>
	<01ac01c47e64$9fc984f0$1602a8c0@athlon>
Message-ID: <4118037B.3040604@chipp.com>

Couldn't have said it better myself!

tuviah snyder wrote:

> MDI, ActiveX how many people need these vs things like answer file with
> extension. Seems not many from looking at the bugzilla votes. If you want
> these features, vote for them:-)
> 
> Tuviah


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug  9 19:07:30 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 18:07:30 -0500
Subject: ActiveX and RR
Message-ID: <411803B2.4040607@chipp.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> Many automation COM services do not need a control.  I realize that most 
> folks want the control, but where I could have used this over the past 
> couple years, I have not needed the control.

I agree, this actually would be the best case scenario for an
ActiveX/COM wrapper external.

> The calls should be more straightforward.  The callbacks may be a 
> problem and there may be a need to get across a thread boundary.  In 
> looking at similar problems, I think the Revolution app may need to poll 
> for the callbacks.

You are correct, this is the big hurdle.

> I don't think this is as bad as it sounds.  The first step is to come up 
> with the right mapping of types.  The pointers are known and are not 
> arbitrary so a scheme can be set up for those.  The implementation step 
> might be tedious but half can be done in transcript.

Certainly a naming convention could be setup where variable prefixes in
RR could be used to 'type' data on the other side. But, even then,
pointers referring to pointers still remains a problem... And arrays,
too (Arrays of arrays of arrays...I know I know...'Dar's Boxes!' :-)

> Such a thing would have been handy for some DCOM work over the past 
> couple years, but I don't know how much that might come up again.  I 
> have toyed with the idea of a generic dll interface, but that has crash 
> risks if the developer gets the interface wrong.

No doubt, making a crash proof version would be a challenge. In fact, a
main reason we haven't taken this on is primarily one of support.



From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug  9 19:59:25 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:59:25 -0300
Subject: question about httpProxy prop.
In-Reply-To: <41180184.6060901@chipp.com>
References: <9E45D14F-EA47-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<16B6F5A0-EA4D-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<39963F30-EA4E-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com> <41180184.6060901@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <241E1BBA-EA60-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Chipp,

thank you very much for the reply! I am investigating what type of 
damn-proxy I am dealing with, but I think it uses no auth, for the 
students have no login and the explorer shows no auth...

I am receiving weird errors, in some machines it work fine, others it 
receives old data... I must go on site and see with my eyes, now, all I 
have is their tech on the phone line screaming, I will be there in 
couple days, then I'll see what I am dealing with.

Thanks
andre


On Aug 9, 2004, at 7:58 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Andre,
>
> 1) Do you know what type of authentication your proxy server is using?
> 2) Are you 'not connecting' or just getting empty data back?
>
> If you're getting empty data back you might try:
>
> repeat 5 times
>   get URL "http://myandre.com/test.htm"
>   if it is not empty then
>      answer "Got it!: " & it
>   end if
> end repeat
>
> sometimes it takes a couple trys to get through some firewalls/proxy 
> servers. I've used this successfully on high latency proxy servers.
>
> If you find out you're using Basic Authentication, then Dave Cragg has 
> a new version of libURL which supports both Basic and NTLM 
> authentication. If you need the NTLM authentication, then contact me 
> offlist and I'll send you a NTLM.dll external.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From matt.denton at limelight.com.au  Mon Aug  9 20:05:40 2004
From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:05:40 +1000
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 42
In-Reply-To: <20040809222918.639509300F0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040809222918.639509300F0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <03AA8D04-EA61-11D8-ABD9-000A95A05246@limelight.com.au>

Hi Jacqueline (and Richard earlier!),

Yes thanks kindly for the tip, yes I do know the difference, I remember 
crossing this bridge years ago in HyperLand.

My point was centred around duplication.  In my scripts, I regularly 
use the target as a reference to the original object.  The stack or 
group script might set a custom prop of an object, for example.  I've 
always understood 'the target' to be an absolute reference to the 
object.  It usually is.

For example, I want to remember or reference the object to say set a 
custom prop, I need an assured reference back to the object if it is 
handled down the object hierarchy.

Subtle differences:

	set the cSomeMagicValue of the target to "It works!"

... works, even if the object has been duplicated.  However:

on closeField
	put the value of the target into gKeepForLater
end closeField

... doesn't, when there are two objects with the same name, the 2nd 
object puts the value of the first object into the global.   
Interestingly, the above doesn't work even if it is in the object's 
script.  Of course 'me' always works, as does 'the name of me' or 'the 
id of me'.

Perhaps that's why 'target' was invented.

I guess prefacing with 'value of' causes Rev to convert 'the target' to 
a text name value, then get the value of that object by name, which is 
incorrect if the object has a buddy with a duplicate name.  I'll just 
stick to 'target' and the ID of the target from here on in, value of... 
doesn't seem to be reliable!  (Of course no duplicates is the best 
remedy...).

Thanks kindly to both of you!

M@
Matt

on Mon, 09 Aug 2004 17:05:49 -0500 J. Landman Gay" 
<jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrot:

On 10/08/2004, at 8:29 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

>
>> Confusingly, just 'target' (no 'the') returns the value correctly; 
>> 'the
>> value of the target' doesn't when there is a duplicate name.
>
> One thing to note is that "target" and "the target" are two different
> things. This is a HyperCard construct and has been in xtalk languages
> since 1987, so changing it would probably break a lot of stacks.
> However, it can be confusing.
>
> "The target" is a function that identifies the object that originated
> the message. "Target" refers to the text in the object (usually a 
> field.)
>
> Create a stack with a field, and put this into the card script:
>
>   on keydown
>    put the target && target
>    pass keydown
>   end keydown
>
> The above needs refining for actual use, but should give you an idea of
> how it all works.

>> Hey ho.
>>
>> Just found a small discrepancy: the 'me' function will always return 
>> the correct object, however 'the target' will only return the name of 
>> the object.  This becomes an issue if you, like me, sometimes 
>> duplicate an object and forget to give it a unique name.  Create a 
>> button, put this script in it:
>> 	
>> on closeField
>>   put the value of me
>> end closeField
>>
>> Now duplicate (or option-drag) a copy.  Change text in the field, 
>> notice the correct values are reported back to the msg window. Now 
>> change BOTH scripts to:
>>
>> on closeField
>>   put the value of the target
>> end closeField
>>
>> ... this reports incorrectly, only reporting 1 field (the first found 
>> with the name 'Field 1').  I kinda remember in my dim past that 
>> HyperCard would always return the target value correctly, even with 
>> object name duplication?
>>
>> Confusingly, just 'target' (no 'the') returns the value correctly; 
>> 'the value of the target' doesn't when there is a duplicate name.  
>> Small, simple, but had me stumped for a bit.  As you might expect, 
>> 'put the value of (long ID of the target)' works.  Of course avoiding 
>> duplication is good practice; not trusting 'the target' is safest if 
>> you can't guarantee unique field/group/button etc names.
>>
>> I'd like to see 'the target' use the long ID for object referencing, 
>> but use the name of the target (as it does now) when used for 
>> display.  Is that possible?  Anyone agree?
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> M@
>> Matt


From nnoydb at excite.com  Mon Aug  9 20:15:18 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Mon,  9 Aug 2004 20:15:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ActiveX and RR
Message-ID: <20040810001518.052DAB700@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>


Basically, RR needs is own Dispatch Driver and IConnectionPoint external.  I would recomend however that RR developers implement a GetProcAddress and LoadLibrary fuctionality (cross-platform).  This will facilitate Win32 calls as well as glibc (CoCreateInsyance, CreateThread, CoMarshall, fork and many more) it would also increase the capibilities of the tool significantly.


NOTE: All COM and ActiveX interfaces are called via standard Win32 DLL.  Of course on *nix systems CORBA, PVM and many other libraries would finally be easily available.

Kevin




-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Mon 08/09, Chipp Walters < chipp at chipp.com > wrote:
From: Chipp Walters [mailto: chipp at chipp.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:56:46 -0500
Subject: ActiveX and RR

Spent some talking with Chris today about ActiveX controls inside of RunRev.<br><br>Some on the list here have posited the notion that RR can't be taken <br>seriously as a tool until (among other things) it has ActiveX support. <br>While this may indeed be true, it is worth examining what really *is* <br>ActiveX support and how does a product like RB 'support' it?<br><br>(Note: I expect this argument may also be true for Director, though I'm <br>not positive. Perhaps Troy can shed some light).<br><br>Regarding ActiveX (from Chris):<br><br>1) He believes it's easy to add (in fact, we have a ActiveX instantiator <br>in our XConnector code for Hemingway) with the following caveats:<br><br>a) You would need to know the CLSID of the ActiveX control you wanted to <br>add (this could probably be done inside of RR using a Registry browser <br>function).<br><br>b) You could display the ActiveX control/player easily on a card<br><br>c) You could set properties and call methods (assume you know the <br>correct syntax)<br><br>All this is well and good...and in fact is how RB deals with them. The <br>two major hard parts are:<br><br>1) 'event trapping' or sending events back and forth across the RR boundary.<br><br>2) 'type marshalling' or converting RR strings to the appropriate <br>Windows API type.<br><br>The first can be done thru custom code in an external or an engine <br>modification. Type marshalling is a bit more difficult and would make <br>sense to have an engine modification in order to do this properly. <br>Things like pointer handles and arrays are most difficult. This would <br>mean we would need some way to convert strings to variants. Plus, <br>there's the whole issue of unicode which makes things even harder...<br><br>Chris' opinion is that RB provides a subset of ActiveX support and <br>doesn't handle the 'events' completely-- and that is why they have their <br>'own' grids, tables, etc and don't use standard ActiveX ones (I assume <br>the same is true for Director and 'Xtras'). It is also the reason why <br>altBrowser is a custom external and not just an instantiatiated ActiveX <br>wrapper.<br><br>So, to recap, it appears it would be fairly easy to have an 'ActiveX' <br>wrapper external which could call ActiveX DLLs. But, the DLL it calls <br>would not actually 'trap' events, but rather only have props set and <br>methods called. How functional is this? Well, for one it could work as a <br>player for different 'players' like Flash, IE, Acrobat,Excel, as long as <br>you don't need callbacks...which is of limited use because most <br>programmers want to 'get' the event messaging.<br><br>In fact, if one peruses the RB list, you will find instances of users <br>being able to 'call' to the Windows Media Player and start playing a <br>video. But, to able to respond to the video via callbacks, etc, is not <br>supported.<br><br>Interesting, in talking with Jerry Daniels and Chris about this, the <br>very first question they had was "What do you want to do which isn't <br>currently supported?" Ken Ray has offered some good suggestions <br>regarding existing ActiveX tables, grids and treeLists. But, to my <br>knowledge, adding the full functionality of these ActiveX controls are <br>difficult (if not impossible) both in RB and RR (and I assume Director <br>as well).<br><br>Lastly, for those who have gotten this far:-) and think of ActiveX <br>support a 'have2have' feature, I am wondering...How much would you <br>consider paying for it? Or would you expect it to be in the 'Enterprise' <br>version of RR?<br><br>-Chipp<br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  9 21:00:09 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 18:00:09 -0700
Subject: ActiveX and RR
In-Reply-To: <4117F31E.8040702@chipp.com>
References: <4117F31E.8040702@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <19433026579.20040809180009@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

Monday, August 9, 2004, 2:56:46 PM, you wrote:

CW> 1) 'event trapping' or sending events back and forth across the RR boundary.

CW> 2) 'type marshalling' or converting RR strings to the appropriate 
CW> Windows API type.

These are exactly the two sticky points in creating a generic library
mechanism. It's not just ActiveX and not just (insert your own
favorite OS here)-style calls, either. I think what is necessary here
to deal with variable typing is something similar to the declaration
methods in RB or C or java - something that signals the engine that
when it comes across this external function it will need to pass a
32-bit integer or a string or whatever the function needs. Then we
need generic routines to do the argument casting.

I don't have a strong preference for the actual syntax of the
declaration statement. I *can* say that I'm not wild about having any
of the existing syntaxes tacked onto runrev, but I *am* used to using
them, as are other developers, so it may be worth putting in something
that feels comfortable to them.

CW> Interesting, in talking with Jerry Daniels and Chris about this, the
CW> very first question they had was "What do you want to do which isn't
CW> currently supported?" Ken Ray has offered some good suggestions 
CW> regarding existing ActiveX tables, grids and treeLists. But, to my
CW> knowledge, adding the full functionality of these ActiveX controls are
CW> difficult (if not impossible) both in RB and RR (and I assume Director
CW> as well).

CW> Lastly, for those who have gotten this far:-) and think of ActiveX
CW> support a 'have2have' feature, I am wondering...How much would you
CW> consider paying for it? Or would you expect it to be in the 'Enterprise'
CW> version of RR?

ActiveX is a mixed bag. My understanding is that OLE was rather
universally reviled by developers as being too arcane and hard to use,
so Microsoft renamed it ActiveX and more or less forced developers to
use it by dropping support for earlier technologies. That said,
ActiveX at least has a fairly good and well-documented discovery
process for the features it exposes.

As I've mentioned before, I think the mechanism for getting out of the
RR sandbox (not necessarily ActiveX here) is a necessity for drawing
in existing developers, at least in the Windows world. As an example,
if I'm working as part of a larger team and one group has developed a
middleware library in C that I'm supposed to interact with, I've got a
limited number of choices right now. I will probably end up spawning
an external library of functions in C as a shim between the two. I can
see the questions coming from project management now: why do we need
an extra layer of complexity? and if we have to write this layer in C
anyway, why do we need runrev in here?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  9 21:11:03 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 18:11:03 -0700
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 42
In-Reply-To: <03AA8D04-EA61-11D8-ABD9-000A95A05246@limelight.com.au>
References: <20040809222918.639509300F0@mail.runrev.com>
	<03AA8D04-EA61-11D8-ABD9-000A95A05246@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <411820A7.2080907@fourthworld.com>

Matt Denton wrote:

> I guess prefacing with 'value of' causes Rev to convert 'the target' to 
> a text name value, then get the value of that object by name, which is 
> incorrect if the object has a buddy with a duplicate name.  I'll just 
> stick to 'target' and the ID of the target from here on in, value of... 
> doesn't seem to be reliable!

Just for clarity, the value function is very reliable.  It's one of the 
oldest parts of the engine, field-tested for more than a decade.

The problem here is that it's doing exactly what you're telling it to 
do, evaluating a string (the value returned by "the target"), and that 
string contains an object name which is also a reference to another 
object ("field 1").

The key is to name objects in ways that don't cause such conflicts. 
There's only two rules I can think of offhand:

- don't name an object with a purely numeric name (e.g., "12")
- don't name an object with a string that can evaluate to a
   reference to another object (e.g., naming your second
   field "field 1").

If there's a fault here it's with the IDE's default behavior for making 
up names (why not just leave the user in control?), and not with the 
underlying engine.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Mon Aug  9 21:27:00 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:57:00 +0930
Subject: ActiveX and RR
In-Reply-To: <19433026579.20040809180009@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHKEDBEOAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


>As I've mentioned before, I think the mechanism for getting out of the
>RR sandbox (not necessarily ActiveX here) is a necessity for drawing
>in existing developers, at least in the Windows world. As an example,
>if I'm working as part of a larger team and one group has developed a
>middleware library in C that I'm supposed to interact with, I've got a
>limited number of choices right now. I will probably end up spawning
>an external library of functions in C as a shim between the two. I can
>see the questions coming from project management now: why do we need
>an extra layer of complexity? and if we have to write this layer in C
>anyway, why do we need runrev in here?

I'm actually more interested in the prospect of a Rev - Java interface for a
few reasons:
 - an applet object would be a perfect way to integrate custom controls into
Rev
 - an external type interface for Java would allow us to leverage lot's of
Java code and also give us a very powerful combination for J2EE clients
 - a reasonable probablility that creations would be as cross-platform as
Rev
 - it's far more likely that RunRev would get support from the Sun crowd
than the Microsoft crowd

Cheers

--
  Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
  Sweat Technologies

  InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
  http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug  9 21:31:58 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:31:58 -0400
Subject: ActiveX and RR
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHKEDBEOAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHKEDBEOAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <12568661-EA6D-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 9, 2004, at 9:27 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> I'm actually more interested in the prospect of a Rev - Java interface 
> for a
> few reasons:
>  - an applet object would be a perfect way to integrate custom 
> controls into
> Rev
>  - an external type interface for Java would allow us to leverage 
> lot's of
> Java code and also give us a very powerful combination for J2EE clients
>  - a reasonable probablility that creations would be as cross-platform 
> as
> Rev
>  - it's far more likely that RunRev would get support from the Sun 
> crowd
> than the Microsoft crowd

Monte, I think that is a really good idea. I'm no fan of ActiveX 
specifically, being a Mac-based developer, but I am a fan of gaining a 
lot of potential tools and a more opened-up platform with just one 
addition to Rev.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  9 22:06:50 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 19:06:50 -0700
Subject: ActiveX and RR
In-Reply-To: <19433026579.20040809180009@ahsoftware.net>
References: <4117F31E.8040702@chipp.com>
	<19433026579.20040809180009@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <41182DBA.9040607@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

> I don't have a strong preference for the actual syntax of the
> declaration statement. I *can* say that I'm not wild about having any
> of the existing syntaxes tacked onto runrev, but I *am* used to using
> them, as are other developers, so it may be worth putting in something
> that feels comfortable to them.

I would stongly advocate using ToolBook's syntax.  To the best of my 
knowledge it remains the only xTalk capable of making direct system 
calls, and has done so for more than a decade.

Although it's been a few years since I worked with it I remember writing 
some routines that directly used the Win API for drawing shapes for a 
custom window and it was a snap.

TookBook changed hands again -- originally published by Asymetrix and 
then Click2Learn, it's now in the hands of Sum Total Systems -- a demo 
is available, which should include the docs:

<http://www.sumtotalsystems.com/toolbook/index.html>

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug  9 22:27:33 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 22:27:33 -0400
Subject: Mysterious gray background when printing cards
In-Reply-To: <20040809204553.873E29300D8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD3DAAD5.23EB%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>


Thanks -- you cleared this up for me. If you click the little button next to
background color which says "clear" (in colors and patterns of stack
inspectior) this causes your background color to be gray. To set your
background color to "clear" you have to open up the color picker and push it
to white. Thanks for the heads up.

If I knew more I would ask for a feature on bugzilla. My feature request
would be to make "clear" be the lack of any color, icon, figure or even
gray. At least that is what I think of as clear. Or maybe if gray is chosen
it should be visible.


Bill

On 8/9/04 4:45 PM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>> I am used to WYSIWIG and this has me stumped.
>> 
> 
> If you are sure that you have your backgrounds are set to white and you
> still see the grey background, try updating your printer drivers.  This
> was an old issue for me years ago that seems to have gone away.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Mark Talluto




From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug  9 22:28:40 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 22:28:40 -0400
Subject: Database linked controls
In-Reply-To: <20040809204553.873E29300D8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD3DAB18.23EC%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>


What is the message sent when a newly opened, connected, stack finishes
making a connection to the database?



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  9 22:41:46 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:41:46 -0700
Subject: ActiveX and RR
In-Reply-To: <20040810001518.052DAB700@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040810001518.052DAB700@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <8239123276.20040809194146@ahsoftware.net>

K-

Monday, August 9, 2004, 5:15:18 PM, you wrote:

K> Basically, RR needs is own Dispatch Driver and IConnectionPoint
K> external.  I would recomend however that RR developers implement a
K> GetProcAddress and LoadLibrary fuctionality (cross-platform).  This

Implementing LoadLibrary (even cross=platform) is very very easy. Even
implementing GetProcAddress (given a function name) is easy. The
problems start from there. GetProcAddress gives you a pointer - how to
deal with that in rev? You can store it in a variable, but how do you
turn it around and vector through it? That facility needs to be built
into the engine in order to use it.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  9 22:48:36 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:48:36 -0700
Subject: ActiveX and RR
In-Reply-To: <41182DBA.9040607@fourthworld.com>
References: <4117F31E.8040702@chipp.com>
	<41182DBA.9040607@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5839532965.20040809194836@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

It's been years since I've used ToolBook, and I no longer remember the
syntax for doing these things, so I went and took a look at the new
web site:

http://www.sumtotalsystems.com/toolbook/demos/flash/unsupported/unsupported.html

So far I'm not impressed.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  9 22:53:37 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:53:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf v02
Message-ID: <20040810025337.94668.qmail@web40513.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Developers,

Download the stack "vector2pdf_v02":

_http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/vector2pdf_v02.zip_

<http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/vector2pdf_v02.zip>

This handler includes the bug fixes discussed
in this list and others not so obvius. ;-) 

I've included ASCIIHexEncoding as a prelude to
future work with binary data from gzip compresion 
and jpg images.

Inform to the mail list about any incompabilities
and error messages with Acrobat 6 and Readers from
Mac OS X and Linux.
 
If you want to help to write the code needed to 
write text and images with this handler, download
the PDF reference manual from:
<http://penguin.at0.net/~fredo/files/PDF-DOCS/>
_http://penguin.at0.net/~fredo/files/PDF-DOCS/_
 
Thanks a lot to Richard Gaskin (for his help with 
the codenames funtions), to Jim Hurley and
Jan Schenkel, (for identifying and fixing diverse
bugs in the previous version), to Pierre Sahores
(for reporting on error messages in his platforms),
and everyone of you, who take the time to test
this handler in your machines.

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug  9 23:04:21 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:04:21 -0700
Subject: ToolBook syntax for external DLLs
In-Reply-To: <41182DBA.9040607@fourthworld.com>
References: <4117F31E.8040702@chipp.com>
	<41182DBA.9040607@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8240478314.20040809200421@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

But I did find a couple of examples:

http://listserv.plattecanyon.com/wa.exe?A2=ind9506A&L=toolbook&P=R2844&I=-3
http://listserv.plattecanyon.com/wa.exe?A2=ind9501&L=toolbook&P=R15555&I=-3

To use a function from an external library file (exe or dll) use the linkDLL
function in TB, eg:
 
to handle SummatAndNowt
        linkdll "USER"
                int messageBox(word, string, string, word)
        end
end
 
The above links the very useful messagebox function, which you can later
call in script, eg:
 
        get MessageBox(sysWindowHandle, "Do you really want to quit?", \
                        "Quit", 256+32+4)

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug  9 23:06:05 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 20:06:05 -0700
Subject: ActiveX and RR
In-Reply-To: <5839532965.20040809194836@ahsoftware.net>
References: <4117F31E.8040702@chipp.com>	<41182DBA.9040607@fourthworld.com>
	<5839532965.20040809194836@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <41183B9D.30401@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
> Richard-
> 
> It's been years since I've used ToolBook, and I no longer remember the
> syntax for doing these things, so I went and took a look at the new
> web site:
> 
> http://www.sumtotalsystems.com/toolbook/demos/flash/unsupported/unsupported.html
> 
> So far I'm not impressed.

I'm not suggesting anyone use ToolBook; Rev is smaller, faster, and even 
the Enterprise version costs less than half as much so there would be no 
need.

My only point is that if we're going to explore ways to add optional 
type declarations to the language we don't need to reinvent that wheel.

Extra bonus points:  if we use the long-established conventions ToolBook 
already has for this, it makes it that much easier for those users to 
switch to Rev if they're as impressed by the new owners as you are. ;)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Tue Aug 10 00:37:35 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 22:37:35 -0600
Subject: clipboardData["text"]
Message-ID: <005b01c47e93$c337c1c0$36d4e6cf@WorkPC>

When I do the following...

  set the clipboardData["text"] to "Hello World"

I get the following when I paste it into Wordpad...

  {\rtf\ansi Hello World}

Is this right?  It pastes just fine in Notepad, and I'm worried about what it may do in other programs.
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug  9 23:45:40 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 22:45:40 -0500
Subject: Mysterious gray background when printing cards
In-Reply-To: <BD3DAAD5.23EB%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD3DAAD5.23EB%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <411844E4.9000508@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/9/04 9:27 PM, Bill wrote:
> Thanks -- you cleared this up for me. If you click the little button next to
> background color which says "clear" (in colors and patterns of stack
> inspectior) this causes your background color to be gray. To set your
> background color to "clear" you have to open up the color picker and push it
> to white. Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> If I knew more I would ask for a feature on bugzilla. My feature request
> would be to make "clear" be the lack of any color, icon, figure or even
> gray. At least that is what I think of as clear. Or maybe if gray is chosen
> it should be visible.

Actually, "clear" in this case means "none" or "transparent". It clears 
the color assignment from the object entirely. When an object has no 
color specifically assigned to it, it inherits color from the next 
object up the hierarchy. If that one has no assignment, then the 
inheritance continues up the hierarchy until an object does have a color 
assigned or until the default is used. Somewhere in your stack or in 
Revolution itself there is a gray color that your object is inheriting. 
So, to avoid that, assign your own color -- in this case, white.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From cteno4 at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 10 02:14:40 2004
From: cteno4 at earthlink.net (cteno4)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 02:14:40 -0400
Subject: Metacard to rev problems
Message-ID: <20040810060635.6220D930066@mail.runrev.com>

Hi,

Just thought i would let you all know of some serious problems i have run 
into switching a stack from metacard to revolution. I hope some of the 
problems below are just from switching mid project.

The project was nearing the end and i decided to try out revolution to 
see if it would help with one little bug i was having with the backdrop 
function in windows where the topmost program manager window would get 
trapped between the stack window and the backdrop window (scott had said 
a long time ago they had seen this and couldnt quite figure out what was 
causing it.). i was able to fix this later by just doing all the stack 
window calls first then doing the stack movements and changes then 
calling the backdrop last.

Well all was going well squishing the last few bugs in the program on the 
mac, then the problems started...

Mac problems (922 g4 mc251 rev221)

Standalone creation error
I could not build a mac PPC application on the mac in revolution. Tried 
everything i could think of and it just doesnt work (including creating a 
new folder to build into). just kept giving me the error message at the 
end "there was an error while saving standalone application" and wouldnt 
create its build folder and only left a 128K text file where the app 
directory was to go. I can start a new stack and build apps or it fine.

PC problems (dell p4 win xp pro mc251 rev221)

Audio playback:
When starting to build the pc apps (couldnt build them on the mac...) on 
a pc i noticed that my audio files (wav files loaded into a player) would 
only play for about 3 seconds then go silent. i believe the player was 
still reading the file since if i paused the player (i have a play/pause 
button to do this) the file would start up about where it would be if the 
part that played and the amount of silent time i had done before pausing. 
This happens in the development environment or if i build a standalone (i 
can build standalones of this stack on the pc). The same stack on 
Metacard 251 on the pc plays the same audio files fine. I tried opening 
the stack on windows rev and deleting and recreating the player that i am 
using to play all the audio files just to make sure there wasnt something 
weird about players with the newer engine used in rev. no dice, still 
stops playing after a few seconds.

One other old bug i ran into that i had forgotten about was that if you 
ask for a callback set at the duration of a player with a file loaded you 
get it on the mac, but on the pc you need to knock a tick off or the 
callback is not sent. This is in both 25 and 26 engines. luckly just 
knocking a few ticks off the duration fixes this on both platforms.

Image problems:
I had some images that were imported into the stacks in metacard, then i 
did a small amount of erasing to a few of them (using the erase tool). 
The resulting images look fine on the mac, but have a subtle color change 
on the pc. I tried this with metacard on the mac (importing an image then 
erasing a small part) and on the pc in metacard this color shift does not 
happen. I created a new stack in rev and tried the same process of 
importing an image, erasing a bit of it then taking it over to rev on the 
pc and it does the color shift, so this is some bug in the newer 2.6 
engine.

Good News
The good news is that i moved the project back over to mc25 and have 
gotten everything working on both sides. went back and replaced the few 
graphics that were messed up by rev and I think i can just finish the 
project in metacard.

If anyone has any ideas of why these problems errupted, i would be glad 
to test out any ideas to see if there are work arounds. I have been 
extreemly happy with metacard and was enjoying my new experience with rev 
until i ran into these problems here right near the end.


Jeffrey H. Reynolds
6620 Michaels Dr.
Bethesda, MD  20817

301.469.8562

email: cteno4 at earthlink.net
       cteno4 at aol.com


From bobnelson at mac.com  Tue Aug 10 03:13:13 2004
From: bobnelson at mac.com (Bob Nelson)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 00:13:13 -0700
Subject: Arrgh...  Weird text issue(s)
Message-ID: <BD3DC399.10168%bobnelson@mac.com>

I've got a strange problem which I'm prone to call a "bug" and yet I'm
reluctant to 'go-there' without some guidance from the group (fearing I may
have pulled some bone-head stunt that makes it "my fault").

Here's the story - I'm parsing data (thanks to those who pointed me in some
very good directions in the past!) by sucking down a web page, massaging the
text to dispose of the chaff, and producing the anticipated output - tab
delimited, hard return, formatting looks just like I want it.

Problem is that this routine takes place about 500 times - going to
different pages created by ASP or something and sucking back the data.

Along the way, the parsed data gets put into a field "holder" and the next
parsed line gets added to the end - no big deal, normally!  However, I'm
getting strange "characters" when the third or fourth line is written in
succession.  And if I copy that text off, it is strange indeed...

I've stepped through my routine and it is obviously working flawlessly -
until we get to that third or fourth iteration...

Another "weird" thing I've noticed -- Even though the process cycles to the
next record in the list and prepares to grab the file, for some reason, the
program "thinks" that we're talking about the last record -- even though the
reference to the last record has been deleted from the list.

Anybody encountered any similar weirdness that they might be able to tell me
about?  Anybody want to look at my creation to see if I've gone and done
something really stupid (I'm really not seeing a problem here!)?

Thanks in advance,

Bob
-- 
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.  Albert
Einstein.


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Aug 10 03:39:47 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:39:47 +0100
Subject: question about httpProxy prop.
In-Reply-To: <241E1BBA-EA60-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <9E45D14F-EA47-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<16B6F5A0-EA4D-11D8-848E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<39963F30-EA4E-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com> <41180184.6060901@chipp.com>
	<241E1BBA-EA60-11D8-B7A4-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7489B6B4-EAA0-11D8-9F7E-000A9569F8B0@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 10 Aug 2004, at 00:59, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Chipp,
>
> thank you very much for the reply! I am investigating what type of 
> damn-proxy I am dealing with, but I think it uses no auth, for the 
> students have no login and the explorer shows no auth...
>
> I am receiving weird errors, in some machines it work fine, others it 
> receives old data... I must go on site and see with my eyes, now, all 
> I have is their tech on the phone line screaming, I will be there in 
> couple days, then I'll see what I am dealing with.
>
> Thanks
> andre
>
It would be useful to go on site and try and and get a log extract 
(libUrlSetLogField) of the proxy server's response.

If the response has a 407 status code, then proxy authentication is 
needed (see below).

If it's a caching problem, then I think Dar's suggestions are good. I 
use the same headers to overcome such problems. However, I recently ran 
across a proxy server that served cached responses, whatever the 
headers. I was going to try an approach of changing the url for each 
request. Something like this:

   post tData to url 
"http://my.server.com/cgi-bin/somescript.cgi?userid=xxx0001&requestid=1

where the requestid value is incremented on each request. (The field 
has no significance for the remote cgi script, it's just to fool the 
proxy) I haven't tried it yet, but as a last resort, you might want to 
try.

Chipp Walters wrote:
> If you find out you're using Basic Authentication, then Dave Cragg has 
> a new version of libURL which supports both Basic and NTLM 
> authentication. If you need the NTLM authentication, then contact me 
> offlist and I'll send you a NTLM.dll external.

I've been a bit slow in putting out documentation of the features that 
Chipp is referring to. Perhaps just as well as I recently discovered a 
bug in the implementation which should be fixed for the next release. 
(However, it's possible to handle Basic authentication on a proxy 
server without the new features.)

(The new features allow setting a callback to handle the 
authentication. Although a bit complex, you can set it up once in your 
project and then forget about it. It's main benefit is in integrating 
more difficult authentication schemes such as NTLM (Windows only) which 
require an external to handle the messy stuff.)

Cheers
Dave


From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Tue Aug 10 03:42:06 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:42:06 +0100
Subject: Re Feature requests
References: <20040810020423.05EA39300BB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000801c47ead$89492250$5602a8c0@athalon>

Tuviah wrote..
>MDI, ActiveX how many people need these vs things like answer file with
>extension. Seems not many from looking at the bugzilla votes. If you want
>these features, vote for them:-)

Just a thought on the voting system...If (and its a big if) the user base is
predominantly focused towards one platform, doesn't this mean that voting
will also (probably) skew the feature requests towards that platform?
This is not necessarily a problem, but if there is an intent to spread the
net more widely, then it could be counter productive?
Are all feature requsets looked at from a vote view or is a bigger picture
used too?
Just a thought.

Steve


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 10 03:55:14 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 00:55:14 -0700
Subject: Re Feature requests
In-Reply-To: <000801c47ead$89492250$5602a8c0@athalon>
References: <20040810020423.05EA39300BB@mail.runrev.com>
	<000801c47ead$89492250$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <41187F62.4000703@fourthworld.com>

Stephen King wrote:

> Tuviah wrote..
> 
>>MDI, ActiveX how many people need these vs things like answer file with
>>extension. Seems not many from looking at the bugzilla votes. If you want
>>these features, vote for them:-)
> 
> Just a thought on the voting system...If (and its a big if) the user base is
> predominantly focused towards one platform, doesn't this mean that voting
> will also (probably) skew the feature requests towards that platform?
> This is not necessarily a problem, but if there is an intent to spread the
> net more widely, then it could be counter productive?
> Are all feature requsets looked at from a vote view or is a bigger picture
> used too?
> Just a thought.

I think the system is more like a democratic republic than a true 
democracy:  our votes don't determine the agenda, but they provide 
guidance for those who do.

:)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 10 04:45:58 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:45:58 +0200
Subject: (;-) = ?
In-Reply-To: <20040809223158.75892.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040809223158.75892.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B366B86D-EAA9-11D8-87F4-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Erik,

> --- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:
>
>> OK, i think i have to put something clear!
>> That is a FAKE actually!!!
> was ist denn ein ersatz was denn?

Atama wo tsukatta hou ga ii.

Kyuuryou ga totemo ii kara,  watashi ha depaato de hataraku
koto ni shimashita.

OK? :-D

> Erich

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From heather at runrev.com  Tue Aug 10 06:38:52 2004
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:38:52 +0100
Subject: User Contributions on our website
In-Reply-To: <20040809204553.873E29300D8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD3E644C.2C2CE%heather@runrev.com>

>> ...We would like to encourage the authors of the remaining contributions
> and
>> new contributions to upload them to Revonline...
> 
> You are referring to Revonline in the beta 2.5 correct?

Correct.

> Without access 
> from inside a corporate firewall, Revonline is useless to me (at work
> anyway). In the preferences, I enter my proxy information just as I do for
> web browsers. Browsers can get out once they have prompted me for
> authentication info. Revonline never prompts for authentication, therefore
> never reaches the server. It works fine from home though.

Thank you for this important observation. I shall bring it up with the
development team, but for the best chance of this being addressed could you
bugzilla it?

Regards,

Heather

> 
> Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>

-- 

** For a faster response to all licensing, support, and technical issues,
please now send mail to support at runrev.com **

Heather Nagey ~ heather at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
Tel +44 (0) 870 747 1165 Fax +44 (0) 845 4588487
~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~


From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Aug 10 07:41:47 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 07:41:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ActiveX and RR
Message-ID: <20040810114147.A4CC7B6D7@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>


I believe the focus on ActiveX is a bit short sighted once RR can make native OS calls (GetProcAddress, LoadLibrary ...) ActiveX, OLE, COM, COM+, CORBA, ImageMagik, PVM are just steps away.  As far as interfacing with Java I see no need to haul a 40+ MB virtual machine around!  The major hurdle is RR would need to invoke each OS call "with messages" and provide a ASM stub for OS callbacks.  I provided this functionality in several languages I wrote (TIL based).  In my case I had a "run mutex" that controled the active "thread" anyone executing a reentrant code (code that did not require the intrepreter) would release the "run mutex" make the call and reaquire upon returning.  In fact all functions in the system that accessed the OS would do this.  Giving the appearence of multi-threading.  My languages actually interfaced with OLE, COM and DCOM (supporting ActiveX was not necessary).

Kevin

NOTE: I would appreciate if someone from RR would explain the design of the RR  low level functions so we (the users) can extend the language.



-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Mon 08/09, Richard Gaskin < ambassador at fourthworld.com > wrote:
From: Richard Gaskin [mailto: ambassador at fourthworld.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 20:06:05 -0700
Subject: Re: ActiveX and RR

Mark Wieder wrote:<br>> Richard-<br>> <br>> It's been years since I've used ToolBook, and I no longer remember the<br>> syntax for doing these things, so I went and took a look at the new<br>> web site:<br>> <br>> http://www.sumtotalsystems.com/toolbook/demos/flash/unsupported/unsupported.html<br>> <br>> So far I'm not impressed.<br><br>I'm not suggesting anyone use ToolBook; Rev is smaller, faster, and even <br>the Enterprise version costs less than half as much so there would be no <br>need.<br><br>My only point is that if we're going to explore ways to add optional <br>type declarations to the language we don't need to reinvent that wheel.<br><br>Extra bonus points:  if we use the long-established conventions ToolBook <br>already has for this, it makes it that much easier for those users to <br>switch to Rev if they're as impressed by the new owners as you are. ;)<br><br>-- <br>  Richard Gaskin<br>  Fourth World Media Corporation<br>  ___________________________________________________________<br>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com<br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Tue Aug 10 07:52:59 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:52:59 +0200
Subject: ActiveX and RR
References: <20040810114147.A4CC7B6D7@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <4118B71A.814D131D@Club-Internet.fr>



K a *crit :

> Kevin
>
> NOTE: I would appreciate if someone from RR would explain the design of the RR  low level functions so we (the users) can extend the language.

Yep, agreed. that would be VERY nice.
BTW this is one of the 2 major reasons why I dropped
the developpement of an openGL library about a year
ago (the other one was lack of time).
But I have the feeling that being able to extend the language
would have made lack of time less important...

JB


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Tue Aug 10 07:57:35 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:57:35 +0200
Subject: ActiveX and RR
References: <20040810114147.A4CC7B6D7@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
	<4118B71A.814D131D@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <4118B82F.3234F54@Club-Internet.fr>

BTW I just recalled that among other projects I had
a year ago, there was the implementation of 2D anti-
aliased vector graphics using openGL.
I had found plenty of opensource code that needed
very little adaptation.
I remember starting to work on it, but pretty soon the
impossibility to extend the language made the whole
project a source of headaches, and I finally dropped it...

JB


> K a *crit :
>
> > Kevin
> >
> > NOTE: I would appreciate if someone from RR would explain the design of the RR  low level functions so we (the users) can extend the language.
>
> Yep, agreed. that would be VERY nice.
> BTW this is one of the 2 major reasons why I dropped
> the developpement of an openGL library about a year
> ago (the other one was lack of time).
> But I have the feeling that being able to extend the language
> would have made lack of time less important...
>
> JB
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From kkaufman at snet.net  Tue Aug 10 08:42:02 2004
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:42:02 -0400
Subject: OT MacinTalk
In-Reply-To: <20040807185534.C8D6B9301C2@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040807185534.C8D6B9301C2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <AD5AC1F2-EACA-11D8-86BE-0003937052EC@snet.net>

>  It actually reminds
> me of macintalk!
>
>

Are you referring to the "original" MacinTalk of System 6 (or perhaps 
even earlier)?  My wife would joke that the (single) voice sounded like 
a "Roumanian diplomat".  The synthesizer and its rules all fit into 34 
kb, if I remember correctly.....

-Kurt


From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Aug 10 08:45:47 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:45:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ActiveX and RR
Message-ID: <20040810124547.3913B3DD5@xprdmailfe12.nwk.excite.com>



Oh, something important I forgot!  The Runtime Revolution "Stacks"/"Windows" must be a ActiveX container or provide a interface to be subclassed.  Otherwise ActiveX components (with graphics footprint) would not be viable. The RAD would also need to consider design time properties (a enormous job for just 1 platform). A IDL and APIHOOK declaration system would serve all platforms and allow the community to develope this without (platform specific) XCMD development.

Kevin


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Tue 08/10, jbv < jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr > wrote:
From: jbv [mailto: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:57:35 +0200
Subject: Re: ActiveX and RR

BTW I just recalled that among other projects I had<br>a year ago, there was the implementation of 2D anti-<br>aliased vector graphics using openGL.<br>I had found plenty of opensource code that needed<br>very little adaptation.<br>I remember starting to work on it, but pretty soon the<br>impossibility to extend the language made the whole<br>project a source of headaches, and I finally dropped it...<br><br>JB<br><br><br>> K a *crit :<br>><br>> > Kevin<br>> ><br>> > NOTE: I would appreciate if someone from RR would explain the design of the RR  low level functions so we (the users) can extend the language.<br>><br>> Yep, agreed. that would be VERY nice.<br>> BTW this is one of the 2 major reasons why I dropped<br>> the developpement of an openGL library about a year<br>> ago (the other one was lack of time).<br>> But I have the feeling that being able to extend the language<br>> would have made lack of time less important...<br>><br>> JB<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> use-revolution mailing list<br>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
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From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 10 08:48:18 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:48:18 -0400
Subject: OT MacinTalk
In-Reply-To: <AD5AC1F2-EACA-11D8-86BE-0003937052EC@snet.net>
References: <20040807185534.C8D6B9301C2@mail.runrev.com>
	<AD5AC1F2-EACA-11D8-86BE-0003937052EC@snet.net>
Message-ID: <8DCFE85B-EACB-11D8-86DE-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Historical note:  Macintalk came with the earliest Macs, so it was 
around since System 3 (the earliest MacOS I remember)  if not even 
earlier.

M
On Aug 10, 2004, at 8:42 AM, Kurt Kaufman wrote:

>>  It actually reminds
>> me of macintalk!
>>
>>
>
> Are you referring to the "original" MacinTalk of System 6 (or perhaps 
> even earlier)?  My wife would joke that the (single) voice sounded 
> like a "Roumanian diplomat".  The synthesizer and its rules all fit 
> into 34 kb, if I remember correctly.....
>
> -Kurt
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Aug 10 09:40:35 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:40:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: the script
Message-ID: <20040810134035.288481BF50@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>


Is there any way to intercept "the script" ptoperty for all objects?  

Kevin



-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 10 09:50:33 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 06:50:33 -0700
Subject: Arrgh...  Weird text issue(s)
In-Reply-To: <BD3DC399.10168%bobnelson@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4028035B-EAD4-11D8-A528-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 10, 2004, at 12:13 AM, Bob Nelson wrote:

> Along the way, the parsed data gets put into a field "holder" and the 
> next
> parsed line gets added to the end - no big deal, normally!  However, 
> I'm
> getting strange "characters" when the third or fourth line is written 
> in
> succession.  And if I copy that text off, it is strange indeed...

Not sure what you are doing but there is a limit to how much 
information may be contained in a single line of a field object. I 
would try putting your parsed data into a global variable to see if 
that solves the problem.

HTH,

Mark


From Meitnik at aol.com  Tue Aug 10 09:58:11 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:58:11 EDT
Subject: voting, done it. :)
Message-ID: <42.5524b607.2e4a2e73@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/9/04 10:07:56 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> MDI, ActiveX how many people need these vs things like answer file with
> extension. Seems not many from looking at the bugzilla votes. If you want
> these features, vote for them:-)
> 
> Tuviah
> -- As long as RR states support for Win95/98/2k, MDI will remain important 
for a polished shipping app on Windows. Being forced to rewrite ones app to work 
around lack of MDI is a poor answer if one has to support older Windoze. I 
feel Ken's spec could go a long way to solving MDI support untill a more final 
design could be made. All I am asking is perhaps to meet me half way to help me 
dance with the Gates's 800lb Critter.

Andrew



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Tue Aug 10 10:00:18 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:00:18 -0400
Subject: OT MacinTalk
Message-ID: <OFA2618F88.F5BD3A3A-ON85256EEC.004C3626@sealedair.com>

Marian Petrides <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Historical note:  Macintalk came with the earliest Macs, so it
> was around since System 3 (the earliest MacOS I remember)  if
> not even earlier.

It is debatable which computer company had speech synthesis first. I 
remember Macintalk, but I also remember having a 5.25" floppy diskette for 
my commodore 64 that had speech syntheses very similar to Macintalk. That 
was in 1983 (predating the first Macintosh). Here is an interesting 
article that mentions some of commodores pioneering technologies.

http://www.byte.com/art/9408/sec14/art1.htm

Regards,
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 10 10:39:29 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:39:29 -0400
Subject: ActiveX and RR
In-Reply-To: <20040810114147.A4CC7B6D7@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040810114147.A4CC7B6D7@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <16057EFB-EADB-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 10, 2004, at 7:41 AM, K wrote:

>  As far as interfacing with Java I see no need to haul a 40+ MB 
> virtual machine around!

Is there such a thing as a machine that doesn't have Java installed 
anymore?

I guess I don't know, on OSX the latest VM is just part of the OS, and 
Java apps don't take any addition time to launch, and perform quite 
well.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Aug 10 11:24:21 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:24:21 +0100
Subject: voting, done it. :)
In-Reply-To: <42.5524b607.2e4a2e73@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040810161657.02a8d980@mail.tweedly.net>

At 09:58 10/08/2004 -0400, Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 8/9/04 10:07:56 PM,
>use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:
>
> > MDI, ActiveX how many people need these vs things like answer file with
> > extension. Seems not many from looking at the bugzilla votes. If you want
> > these features, vote for them:-)
> >
> > Tuviah
> > -- As long as RR states support for Win95/98/2k, MDI will remain important
>for a polished shipping app on Windows. Being forced to rewrite ones app 
>to work
>around lack of MDI is a poor answer if one has to support older Windoze. I
>feel Ken's spec could go a long way to solving MDI support untill a more 
>final
>design could be made. All I am asking is perhaps to meet me half way to 
>help me
>dance with the Gates's 800lb Critter.

If you ask the gorilla today, he will say you should consider avoiding 
MDI.  Or, to be exact,
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/winui/winui/windowsuserinterface/windowing/multipledocumentinterface.asp 
says:
>The multiple-document interface (MDI) is a specification that defines a 
>user interface for applications that enable the user to work with more 
>than one document at the same time.
>
>Note  MDI is an application-oriented model. Many new and intermediate 
>users find it difficult to learn to use MDI applications. Therefore, many 
>applications are switching to a document-oriented model. Therefore, you 
>may want to consider other models for your user interface.

So although there's a large existing base of applications using MDI (and 
many users who are familiar with it), most new apps (including those from 
MS itself) will not use it. The users' familiarity with the older standard 
may mean you need to explain the situation to them, including pointing out 
the advice on the MS site.

-- Alex.


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 10 11:19:26 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:19:26 -0400
Subject: ActiveX and RR
In-Reply-To: <20040810114147.A4CC7B6D7@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040810114147.A4CC7B6D7@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <AADCE6B4-EAE0-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 10, 2004, at 7:41 AM, K wrote:

> I believe the focus on ActiveX is a bit short sighted once RR can make 
> native OS calls (GetProcAddress, LoadLibrary ...) ActiveX, OLE, COM, 
> COM+, CORBA, ImageMagik, PVM are just steps away.

Not being a Windows-based programmer, I'd have to ask - would doing 
this provide the every day user  (not C programmer) a broad range of 
downloadable plug ins which they could use to extend Rev's 
capabilities?

I'm only interested in seeing Rev have the capacity to do even more 
than it can currently do. I really don't care what means that is 
through, only that it shouldn't involve a C compiler. It should tap 
into some library of tools which is being continuously added to, and is 
designed for the average developer to tie into their projects.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From greghall at uvic.ca  Mon Aug  9 15:51:10 2004
From: greghall at uvic.ca (Greg Hall)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:51:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Slow animation on OS X
Message-ID: <49283.192.168.1.10.1092081070.squirrel@192.168.1.10>

Hi. I just started using revolution trial on OS X, and it works good so
far but I am having a problem with animation being uselessly slow on OS X.

I am going thru the animation builder tutorial.

When I play an animation using the Animation Builder, it works exactly
like it should, the circle fades in nicely, the text moves nice and
smoothly across the window.

When I play the same animation in browse mode, or in a standalone app, the
animation of the cirlce is the same, but the text is awful - I see about 6
frames out of 60! I tried animating the circle instead to see if it's just
text, and got the same result.

The PPC standalone works fairly smoothly under OS X Classic emulation, you
just have to run it a couple of times to get it going at optimal frame
rate.

I quit all other running apps and tried rebooting just to be sure the app
gets enough cpu time.

Why do OS X native apps animate objects so slowly? Is there anything I can
do about it? It's too slow to even be usable as an application.

My system:

G4 400Mhz
1GB ram
Revolution 2.2.1

================
Greg Hall
greghall at uvic.ca
================

From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Aug 10 11:23:23 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:23:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ActiveX and RR
Message-ID: <20040810152323.A506F1BF64@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>



Not all Java Virtual Machines are created equal!  A company I worked for shipped a product that required the SUN virtual machine (not the MSFT look alike).  The most significant compliant from Fortune 500 administrators/companies was the deployment of the Java Virtual Machine.

K


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Tue 08/10, Troy Rollins < troy at rpsystems.net > wrote:
From: Troy Rollins [mailto: troy at rpsystems.net]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:39:29 -0400
Subject: Re: ActiveX and RR

<br>On Aug 10, 2004, at 7:41 AM, K wrote:<br><br>>  As far as interfacing with Java I see no need to haul a 40+ MB <br>> virtual machine around!<br><br>Is there such a thing as a machine that doesn't have Java installed <br>anymore?<br><br>I guess I don't know, on OSX the latest VM is just part of the OS, and <br>Java apps don't take any addition time to launch, and perform quite <br>well.<br><br>--<br>Troy<br>RPSystems, Ltd.<br>http://www.rpsystems.net<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Aug 10 11:28:25 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:28:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ActiveX and RR
Message-ID: <20040810152825.C60D11BF59@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>




This would allow the development of RR extensions that do not involve a C++ compiler or significant knowledge of C++.  I imagine this functioning like the Visual Basic Declare statement (only with a significant IDL)which allows Visual Basic to call WIN32 without C++ knowledge.

Kevin


>Not being a Windows-based programmer, I'd have to ask - would doing
>this provide the every day user (not C programmer) a broad range of
>downloadable plug ins which they could use to extend Rev's
>capabilities?

>I'm only interested in seeing Rev have the capacity to do even more
>than it can currently do. I really don't care what means that is
>through, only that it shouldn't involve a C compiler. It should tap
>into some library of tools which is being continuously added to, and is
>designed for the average developer to tie into their projects.

-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Tue 08/10, Troy Rollins < troy at rpsystems.net > wrote:
From: Troy Rollins [mailto: troy at rpsystems.net]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:19:26 -0400
Subject: Re: ActiveX and RR

<br>On Aug 10, 2004, at 7:41 AM, K wrote:<br><br>> I believe the focus on ActiveX is a bit short sighted once RR can make <br>> native OS calls (GetProcAddress, LoadLibrary ...) ActiveX, OLE, COM, <br>> COM+, CORBA, ImageMagik, PVM are just steps away.<br><br>Not being a Windows-based programmer, I'd have to ask - would doing <br>this provide the every day user  (not C programmer) a broad range of <br>downloadable plug ins which they could use to extend Rev's <br>capabilities?<br><br>I'm only interested in seeing Rev have the capacity to do even more <br>than it can currently do. I really don't care what means that is <br>through, only that it shouldn't involve a C compiler. It should tap <br>into some library of tools which is being continuously added to, and is <br>designed for the average developer to tie into their projects.<br>--<br>Troy<br>RPSystems, Ltd.<br>http://www.rpsystems.net<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Tue Aug 10 11:40:04 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:40:04 -0400
Subject: MYSTERIOUS GRAY BACKGROUND
In-Reply-To: <20040810124345.334BD9300B5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD3E6494.241E%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>


This means that the gray background color is somehow in revolution itself as
it shows through when I tell the background of the stack to be clear and is
white when I tell the bg of the stack to be white. So there must be some
setting in RunRev like a preference where you can tell it that gray is not
an appropriate color? Or perhaps this is in the docs as a feature?

Bill

PS It must be a feature or other people that have tried printing cards would
complain...

On 8/10/04 8:43 AM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: Mysterious gray background when printing cards
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <411844E4.9000508 at hyperactivesw.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> 
> On 8/9/04 9:27 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Thanks -- you cleared this up for me. If you click the little button next to
>> background color which says "clear" (in colors and patterns of stack
>> inspectior) this causes your background color to be gray. To set your
>> background color to "clear" you have to open up the color picker and push it
>> to white. Thanks for the heads up.
>> 
>> If I knew more I would ask for a feature on bugzilla. My feature request
>> would be to make "clear" be the lack of any color, icon, figure or even
>> gray. At least that is what I think of as clear. Or maybe if gray is chosen
>> it should be visible.
> 
> Actually, "clear" in this case means "none" or "transparent". It clears
> the color assignment from the object entirely. When an object has no
> color specifically assigned to it, it inherits color from the next
> object up the hierarchy. If that one has no assignment, then the
> inheritance continues up the hierarchy until an object does have a color
> assigned or until the default is used. Somewhere in your stack or in
> Revolution itself there is a gray color that your object is inheriting.
> So, to avoid that, assign your own color -- in this case, white.

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Aug 10 12:25:36 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:25:36 +0200
Subject: OT MacinTalk
In-Reply-To: <8DCFE85B-EACB-11D8-86DE-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEFMGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

3 sounds right. Mac plus time if im correct...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Marian
> Petrides
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 14:48
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: OT MacinTalk
> 
> 
> Historical note:  Macintalk came with the earliest Macs, so it was 
> around since System 3 (the earliest MacOS I remember)  if not even 
> earlier.
> 
> M
> On Aug 10, 2004, at 8:42 AM, Kurt Kaufman wrote:
> 
> >>  It actually reminds
> >> me of macintalk!
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Are you referring to the "original" MacinTalk of System 6 (or perhaps 
> > even earlier)?  My wife would joke that the (single) voice sounded 
> > like a "Roumanian diplomat".  The synthesizer and its rules all fit 
> > into 34 kb, if I remember correctly.....
> >
> > -Kurt
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Aug 10 12:45:47 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:45:47 +0200
Subject: voting, done it. :)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040810161657.02a8d980@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEFNGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

MDI sounds like win3.11 technology...  beuah... ;)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Alex
> Tweedly
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 17:24
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: voting, done it. :)
>
>
> At 09:58 10/08/2004 -0400, Meitnik at aol.com wrote:
>
> >In a message dated 8/9/04 10:07:56 PM,
> >use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:
> >
> > > MDI, ActiveX how many people need these vs things like answer
> file with
> > > extension. Seems not many from looking at the bugzilla votes.
> If you want
> > > these features, vote for them:-)
> > >
> > > Tuviah
> > > -- As long as RR states support for Win95/98/2k, MDI will
> remain important
> >for a polished shipping app on Windows. Being forced to rewrite ones app
> >to work
> >around lack of MDI is a poor answer if one has to support older
> Windoze. I
> >feel Ken's spec could go a long way to solving MDI support untill a more
> >final
> >design could be made. All I am asking is perhaps to meet me half way to
> >help me
> >dance with the Gates's 800lb Critter.
>
> If you ask the gorilla today, he will say you should consider avoiding
> MDI.  Or, to be exact,
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/w
inui/winui/windowsuserinterface/windowing/multipledocumentinterface.asp
says:
>The multiple-document interface (MDI) is a specification that defines a
>user interface for applications that enable the user to work with more
>than one document at the same time.
>
>Note  MDI is an application-oriented model. Many new and intermediate
>users find it difficult to learn to use MDI applications. Therefore, many
>applications are switching to a document-oriented model. Therefore, you
>may want to consider other models for your user interface.

So although there's a large existing base of applications using MDI (and
many users who are familiar with it), most new apps (including those from
MS itself) will not use it. The users' familiarity with the older standard
may mean you need to explain the situation to them, including pointing out
the advice on the MS site.

-- Alex.



From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Aug 10 12:52:43 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:52:43 -0700
Subject: the script
In-Reply-To: <20040810134035.288481BF50@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040810134035.288481BF50@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <B30688E6-EAED-11D8-BBDB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Not clear what you mean here, Kevin. You don't "intercept" properties 
as such. Do you mean you want to override the script or are you trying 
to intercept the editScript message?
On Aug 10, 2004, at 6:40 AM, K wrote:

>
> Is there any way to intercept "the script" ptoperty for all objects?
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
> -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
> Disclaimer:
>
> Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
> employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
> coincidental.
> Any resemblance between the above and my own views is 
> non-deterministic.
>
>  The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to 
> hold
> them
> is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
> the reader
>  is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient.
> (A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
> scope of this article.)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Aug 10 13:26:21 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:26:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Slow animation on OS X
In-Reply-To: <49283.192.168.1.10.1092081070.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408101026050.23411-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I think this is a known issue... about to go away along with the animation
builder...

:(

Judy

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Greg Hall wrote:

> Hi. I just started using revolution trial on OS X, and it works good so
> far but I am having a problem with animation being uselessly slow on OS X.
>
> I am going thru the animation builder tutorial.
>
> When I play an animation using the Animation Builder, it works exactly
> like it should, the circle fades in nicely, the text moves nice and
> smoothly across the window.
>
> When I play the same animation in browse mode, or in a standalone app, the
> animation of the cirlce is the same, but the text is awful - I see about 6
> frames out of 60! I tried animating the circle instead to see if it's just
> text, and got the same result.
>
> The PPC standalone works fairly smoothly under OS X Classic emulation, you
> just have to run it a couple of times to get it going at optimal frame
> rate.
>
> I quit all other running apps and tried rebooting just to be sure the app
> gets enough cpu time.
>
> Why do OS X native apps animate objects so slowly? Is there anything I can
> do about it? It's too slow to even be usable as an application.
>
> My system:
>
> G4 400Mhz
> 1GB ram
> Revolution 2.2.1
>
> ================
> Greg Hall
> greghall at uvic.ca
> ================
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Tue Aug 10 13:38:06 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:38:06 EDT
Subject: Call for feature requests, ssBk 
Message-ID: <79.30973a6d.2e4a61fe@aol.com>

I know what you mean, Bob. The program is not a  discussion list reader, so 
hyperlinked ToC access to threaded posts is not  really going to happen, I'm 
afraid. Requests for an improved Rev list interface  would be best directed to 
use-revolution-owner at lists.runrev.com.

However,  as of v4 you do have built-in direct access to Rev list archive 
searching, plus  a several other locations.

/H
Hugh Senior
The Flexible Learning  Company
Web: www.FlexibleLearning.com
E: h at flexiblelearning.com
T/F:  +44(0)1483.27 87 27


---- Original message----
What a fantastic  utility Hugh, many thanks for making it public.

I haven't had time to try  all of its features and I don't entirely know if 
Scripter's Scrapbook is the  place for it, but a better interface to the 
list would be MOST  appreciated.

Although I'm set to digests, I still get a plethora of  messages a day form 
the list.  The trouble is they are buried in the  mass of spam one gets 
these days.

Now don't get me wrong, I really  appreciate all of the activity of this 
list, its one of the best, but one  tends to get bogged down reading 
everything.  Even a simple hyperlink  from the table of contents to the 
actual article plus links between articles  on the same subject would help 
immensely.

best, Bob...  


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 10 13:39:49 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:39:49 -0700
Subject: voting, done it. :)
In-Reply-To: <42.5524b607.2e4a2e73@aol.com>
References: <42.5524b607.2e4a2e73@aol.com>
Message-ID: <41190865.60209@fourthworld.com>

Meitnik at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 8/9/04 10:07:56 PM, 
>-- As long as RR states support for Win95/98/2k, MDI will remain important 
> for a polished shipping app on Windows. Being forced to rewrite ones app to work 
> around lack of MDI is a poor answer if one has to support older Windoze. 

MDI is not a requirement for Windows deployment.  Even going back as far 
as Win95, it is just one of the four windowing models I posted the URL to:
<http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/ch10a.asp>

There are many caveats to using MDI -- see the bottom of this page (in 
the section labeled "Design Trade-offs"), from the Win95 HIG:
<http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/ch10g.asp>

MDI has never been supported in Rev, so I'm hqaving difficulty 
understanding why you would be "forced to rewrite" an app.  If it was 
written in Rev no change should be required, and if it was written in 
something else it would need to be rewritten in Transcript anyway.

Moreover, MDI is rarely the best choice for an app's design.
The question from my post yesterday remains unanswered:
----------------------------------------------------------

Your palettes are fine with SDI; palettes and other non-document windows 
are not addressed distinctly in the MDI model, which deals exclusively 
with providing a parent window to contain multiple documents.

MDI appears to be a holdover from the Win 3.1 days, and as Ken just 
pointed out to me on the phone, not even M$ Word uses it:  While Word 
documents open within a parent window, opening a second document -- even 
from within the program -- will spawn a second parent window for it, 
ignoring their own description of MDI behaviors and acting like an SDI 
instead.

So if Micro$oft is any indication, it seems the world is migrating away 
from MDI.  It's needlessly complex to interact with, new users find the 
dual window controls confusing, and it provides few if any measurable 
benefits for the user over SDI.

What is the benefit of an MDI parent window for the app you're building?

----------------------------------------------------------
If the goal is to ship an app, there's plenty of help here on this list 
to get designs beyond MDI.  But to do so effectively we'll have to ask 
you to meet us halfway and describe what specific benefits you're 
looking for.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 10 13:39:53 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:39:53 -0400
Subject: Slow animation on OS X
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408101026050.23411-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408101026050.23411-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <4967A0D3-EAF4-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 10, 2004, at 1:26 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> I think this is a known issue... about to go away along with the 
> animation
> builder...

True, but we have been told that RR has something better in mind... 
though it won't be in 2.5 - for now, "in mind" is the only place it 
will be.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 10 13:57:24 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:57:24 -0700
Subject: Slow animation on OS X
In-Reply-To: <4967A0D3-EAF4-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408101026050.23411-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<4967A0D3-EAF4-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <41190C84.9090900@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:

> 
> On Aug 10, 2004, at 1:26 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
> 
>> I think this is a known issue... about to go away along with the 
>> animation
>> builder...
> 
> 
> True, but we have been told that RR has something better in mind... 
> though it won't be in 2.5 - for now, "in mind" is the only place it will 
> be.

There's an oddity about OS X that may be at the root of this:  the 
screen update mechanism with OS X's Quartz is very different from 
earlier models, and often needs to be explicitely notified to update or 
it will wait until its own update interval has occurred.

To nudge OS X to update is simple enough -- just add this to animation 
loops:

    wait 0 with messages

Again, I'm not sure if this is related to the Anim Mgr issue 
specificallty, but I've seen many cases where updates are being drawn by 
the Rev engine but not yet visible on screen (such as status info in 
fields to indicate loop progress), and this simple one-liner seems to do 
the trick and will hopefully be useful to others.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Tue Aug 10 14:01:39 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 20:01:39 +0200
Subject: opening sockets and cpu usage
Message-ID: <5408DBA0-EAF7-11D8-AFE4-003065CC999E@pi.be>

Hi all,

Yesterday while testing a chat stack with some people,
there was an old problem coming back in a worse form
with the latest engine 2.6.1 (while the other 2 didn't seem
to have any problem at all).

To simplify the question:
  if a socket is opened like in:

        open socket to "127.0.0.0:8080" with message "gotit"

with rev engine 2.6 and before, the cpu usage is slowly but steadily 
growing
     (and faster if there are connections)
with rev engine 2.6.1 it jumps at once to about 85 % cpu usage

Is this normal for slower machines (400 mhz G4  Mac OSX 10.3.4)
or is something else terribly wrong?

TIA
WA


From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Tue Aug 10 14:26:43 2004
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:26:43 -0500
Subject: OT MacinTalk
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEFMGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <8DCFE85B-EACB-11D8-86DE-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
 <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEFMGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040810132135.01c73848@exchange.slg.com>

Actually MacInTalk was introduced with the very first Mac in 1984, so that 
at the unveiling it could introduce itself...

see http://developer.apple.com/technotes/pt/pdf/pt_22.pdf

Here's an excerpt:

For the introduction of the Macintosh computer, it was decided (by the 
powers formerly in charge) that such a computer
would need something very special to make it a unique event. To aid in this 
concept, a third-party company was contracted
to write a speech synthesizer which would allow the Macintosh computer to 
introduce itself. The contract was signed, and
the work begun.

The outcome of this work was MacinTalk. MacinTalk is a file that can be 
placed into the System Folder of an ordinary
Macintosh computer and allow text to be transformed into speech for the 
introduction in 1984. It was felt to be an
interesting piece of software, so Apple made it available to developers. 
Interfaces to MacinTalk were published and Apple
Software Licensing allowed it to be included with developers' products.


At 11:25 AM 8/10/2004, you wrote:
>3 sounds right. Mac plus time if im correct...
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Marian
> > Petrides
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 14:48
> > To: How to use Revolution
> > Subject: Re: OT MacinTalk
> >
> >
> > Historical note:  Macintalk came with the earliest Macs, so it was
> > around since System 3 (the earliest MacOS I remember)  if not even
> > earlier.
> >
> > M
> > On Aug 10, 2004, at 8:42 AM, Kurt Kaufman wrote:
> >
> > >>  It actually reminds
> > >> me of macintalk!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > Are you referring to the "original" MacinTalk of System 6 (or perhaps
> > > even earlier)?  My wife would joke that the (single) voice sounded
> > > like a "Roumanian diplomat".  The synthesizer and its rules all fit
> > > into 34 kb, if I remember correctly.....
> > >
> > > -Kurt
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-revolution mailing list
> > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Aug 10 14:41:38 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:41:38 -0700
Subject: ActiveX and RR
In-Reply-To: <AADCE6B4-EAE0-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <20040810114147.A4CC7B6D7@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
 <AADCE6B4-EAE0-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <921288662.20040810114138@ahsoftware.net>

Troy-

Tuesday, August 10, 2004, 8:19:26 AM, you wrote:

TR> I'm only interested in seeing Rev have the capacity to do even more
TR> than it can currently do. I really don't care what means that is 
TR> through, only that it shouldn't involve a C compiler. It should tap
TR> into some library of tools which is being continuously added to, and is
TR> designed for the average developer to tie into their projects.

Yes - this is exactly the point of a generic extensibility mechanism.

One analogy that comes to mind is music software, where VST plugins
and the like are supported by many different applications without the
users having to write a new connecting library for each new plugin.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Aug 10 14:44:52 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:44:52 -0700
Subject: ActiveX and RR
In-Reply-To: <20040810114147.A4CC7B6D7@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040810114147.A4CC7B6D7@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <1341483202.20040810114452@ahsoftware.net>

K-

Tuesday, August 10, 2004, 4:41:47 AM, you wrote:

K> I believe the focus on ActiveX is a bit short sighted once RR
K> can make native OS calls (GetProcAddress, LoadLibrary ...) ActiveX,

I did the LoadLibrary and GetProcAddress external calls some time ago,
but without engine support they aren't that useful by themselves.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From lbrehmer at rof.net  Tue Aug 10 14:45:09 2004
From: lbrehmer at rof.net (Lars Brehmer)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:45:09 +0300
Subject: Profile woes
Message-ID: <67B36F9A-EAFD-11D8-B9DF-000A9566DE9E@rof.net>

Has anyone ever encountered a problem when building a standalone with 
two property profiles that causes a long list of cryptic sounding extra 
properties to appear in the property profile of some objects? And some 
of your real  properties get the wrong values? Especially disconcerting 
is the appearance of an "id" stack property with two different values 
for the two profiles, which seems to cause one profile's objects to get 
all the wrong values.  It is mostly icon and highlight icon id's and 
some images.  At first I thought it was just icon images stored in one 
stack that had the same id's as some images in another, where some of 
the buttons are located, becuse instead of the icons, in some cases 
there was another graphic displayed in the button.  No problem - I 
changed all the icon id's to what I thought would remain unique values, 
namely three digit valuse between 140 and 230. (the docs say these are 
free, but inreality these are metacard brushes or patterns in the 
develpoment tool stacks with those numbers - thanks rev).  Well, when I 
saw that the button icons were suddenly old metacard patterns, I at 
least thought I was on the right track, so I changed them all again to 
60000 and above, thinking that no other images could possibly have been 
assigned such a high id number.  Well, it still happens, the buttons in 
one profile are assigned low 4 digit id's, some of which by coincidence 
other images already have, otherwise the button is just blank. And some 
images with a simple true/false visible in the two profiles loose their 
values.  It's always the same 25 properties that show up in the 
property profiles of these objects, starting with "traversalOn, 
palindrome frames, blendLevel, rect, hotSpot and 20 more"  The 
standalone is a splashscreen, so if I open the package contents and 
open the stacks in rev and change everything back PLUS do the same with 
the preference stacks this app generates, then the standalone works, 
but this is obviously not right. An extra hour everytime I make a 
slight change, and I still don't know what happens in Windows, since I 
don't have a PC.

I am using Rev 2.2.1 and OSX.3.4  Help appreciated!

Also, still can't use the Polish keyboard, not in Rev, not in 
Standalones, even though the Polish keyboard works in every other app 
;-(

Thanks,

Lars


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Tue Aug 10 14:51:32 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:51:32 -0700
Subject: comment msg script?
In-Reply-To: <5408DBA0-EAF7-11D8-AFE4-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <BD3E6744.6DE1%moe2@shaw.ca>


using an iMac  OS 9.2

how can multiple lines of message box script be comment
without typing "--" in front of every line

selecting multiple lines and typing cmd?-  will not work :-(

i know that the first line of msg script can not be commented,
without an error msg

thanks in advance for help

moe 

From dleyanna at rtl.org  Tue Aug 10 15:19:15 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:19:15 -0400
Subject: comment msg script?
In-Reply-To: <BD3E6744.6DE1%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <20040810191500.E652C30AB4@mail.rtl.org>

In the script editor...

Select the text you want to comment out
Select the "Script-->Comment" menu options

This works for me but I'm using Win XP

Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of moe2 at shaw.ca
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 2:52 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: comment msg script?


using an iMac  OS 9.2

how can multiple lines of message box script be comment without typing "--"
in front of every line

selecting multiple lines and typing cmd--  will not work :-(

i know that the first line of msg script can not be commented, without an
error msg

thanks in advance for help

moe
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From greghall at uvic.ca  Tue Aug 10 14:49:44 2004
From: greghall at uvic.ca (Greg Hall)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:49:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Versions of RR
In-Reply-To: <41190C84.9090900@fourthworld.com>
References:     <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408101026050.23411-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
    <4967A0D3-EAF4-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
    <41190C84.9090900@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <49642.192.168.1.10.1092163784.squirrel@192.168.1.10>

I see some posts that talk about the 2.5 and 2.6 engine of RR.

I'm a bit confused, as I just started using RR and the current version
(for OS X anyway) is 2.2.1.

Does the engine have a different version than the IDE, or are these both
future versions currently being worked on?

================
Greg Hall
greghall at uvic.ca
================

From dleyanna at rtl.org  Tue Aug 10 15:31:19 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:31:19 -0400
Subject: Versions of RR
In-Reply-To: <49642.192.168.1.10.1092163784.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
Message-ID: <20040810192704.635E530AB4@mail.rtl.org>

They are public beta versions.
Here are links that Kevin posted again a few days ago...

Dave

>I'm delighted to announce Revolution 2.5 Beta for Windows and Mac OS X.
>Linux and Mac Classic will follow shortly.
>
>By definition, a beta test release is a test version and may not be 
>reliable.  As such you should back up your work before using this 
>version and not use it with any sensitive projects.
>
>Existing license keys will unlock this beta test version.
>
>The URL for Windows:
>http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B1/revsetup.exe

>
>Or without an installer:
>http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B1/revolution.zip
>
>Mac OS X:
>http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B1/revolutionosx.dmg
>
>An FAQ on the changes to Express can be found here:
>http://www.runrev.com/express/expresstodreamcard.shtml
>
>The testing of this version is being restricted to our existing 
>customers so please do not give these URLs out outside this list.
>
>Please report any issues with this release directly on Bugzilla.
>
>Enjoy!
>
>Kind regards,
>
>Kevin 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Greg Hall
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 2:50 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Versions of RR

I see some posts that talk about the 2.5 and 2.6 engine of RR.

I'm a bit confused, as I just started using RR and the current version (for
OS X anyway) is 2.2.1.

Does the engine have a different version than the IDE, or are these both
future versions currently being worked on?

================
Greg Hall
greghall at uvic.ca
================
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 10 15:52:23 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:52:23 -0400
Subject: Versions of RR
In-Reply-To: <49642.192.168.1.10.1092163784.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408101026050.23411-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<4967A0D3-EAF4-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41190C84.9090900@fourthworld.com>
	<49642.192.168.1.10.1092163784.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
Message-ID: <CBFE98BF-EB06-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 10, 2004, at 2:49 PM, Greg Hall wrote:

> Does the engine have a different version than the IDE, or are these 
> both
> future versions currently being worked on?

The engine can, and generally does, have a different version number 
than the IDE.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Aug 10 16:01:39 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:01:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: wait with messages
Message-ID: <20040810200139.CE2C5B6E0@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>



I cannot wait with messages on more than a single condition!  I this the intended behavior? Why can't I wait on more than one condition?  

Kevin




-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Aug 10 16:04:24 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:04:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ActiveX and RR
Message-ID: <20040810200424.E19B0B6D6@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>


Does your implementation support *nix platforms?   


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Tue 08/10, Mark Wieder < mwieder at ahsoftware.net > wrote:
From: Mark Wieder [mailto: mwieder at ahsoftware.net]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:44:52 -0700
Subject: Re: ActiveX and RR

K-<br><br>Tuesday, August 10, 2004, 4:41:47 AM, you wrote:<br><br>K> I believe the focus on ActiveX is a bit short sighted once RR<br>K> can make native OS calls (GetProcAddress, LoadLibrary ...) ActiveX,<br><br>I did the LoadLibrary and GetProcAddress external calls some time ago,<br>but without engine support they aren't that useful by themselves.<br><br>-- <br>-Mark Wieder<br> mwieder at ahsoftware.net<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Aug 10 16:06:49 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:06:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: wait with messages
Message-ID: <20040810200649.055E1B6D6@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>



Sorry, I did not explaine the situation well enough.  I seems that when I execute a wait with messages for a specific contition and another event execute a wait with messages on a different condition the seconds wait cancels the first.

Kevin


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Tue 08/10, K < nnoydb at excite.com > wrote:
From: K [mailto: nnoydb at excite.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:01:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: wait with messages

<br><br>I cannot wait with messages on more than a single condition!  I this the intended behavior? Why can't I wait on more than one condition?  <br><br>Kevin<br><br><br><br><br>-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-<br>Disclaimer:<br><br>Any resemblance between the above views and those of my<br>employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely<br>coincidental. <br>Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.<br><br> The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold<br>them<br>is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of<br>the reader<br> is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. <br>(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the<br>scope of this article.)<br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com<br>The most personalized portal on the Web!<br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 10 16:19:58 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:19:58 -0700
Subject: List archive Aug04 experiment
In-Reply-To: <4028035B-EAD4-11D8-A528-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A6C20B52-EB0A-11D8-847B-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>

So in the interest of mining the rev-list archive I have thrown 
together the last 800+ messages from this month and created two 
different versions of the same MTML file.

If you go to http://www.gizmotron.org/intuition/download.html you will 
see at the bottom links for the free Intuition Reader. (MacOSX and 
Windows only for now) Use this to:

If you use the free reader you can either surf to this file on the 
internet:
at: http://www.gizmotron.org/revolution/aug04RevList.txt and run it 
from there or you can download this file and unzip it and then open it:
http://www.gizmotron.org/revolution/testList.zip

Note: There are 800 plus pages so doing a keyWord search is not 
recommended without selecting the term subject first to be included 
during a search. This is a non indexed search process.

Example search for best results:

1) open file with Intuition Reader

2. Click "S" in the tool bar.
   a.) enter "linux" & select "or" from the radio button
   b.) click cancel

3. Click "T" from the tool bar
   a.) Click "subject"
   b.) select "use keywords" from the radio button option
   c.) Click "MT"

The process of using a search term "subject" in combination with a 
keyword allows for fastest results. Apparently a keyword search alone 
takes way too long to render the text. This extremely large file for 
this purpose shows me that I can work on speeding up Intuition when 
it's used as a list archive tool. Anyone wishing to mine the list 
archive and tag it with MTML as a resource project I would be 
interested in helping create an MTML version of the archive. I can't 
host this archive if once it is completed. I used BBEdit and Rev to 
transform the 1.2 MB archive document to an 800+ page MTML document 
with the subject tag set included. I then used Intuition to batch 
process the pages into the two files. see links above. <end of 
experiment/>

Mark


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 10 16:26:03 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:26:03 -0600
Subject: opening sockets and cpu usage
In-Reply-To: <5408DBA0-EAF7-11D8-AFE4-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <5408DBA0-EAF7-11D8-AFE4-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <80030B60-EB0B-11D8-8431-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 10, 2004, at 12:01 PM, Wouter wrote:

> To simplify the question:
>  if a socket is opened like in:
>
>        open socket to "127.0.0.0:8080" with message "gotit"
>
> with rev engine 2.6 and before, the cpu usage is slowly but steadily 
> growing
>     (and faster if there are connections)
> with rev engine 2.6.1 it jumps at once to about 85 % cpu usage

I ran a test with a similar open.

But to test it I used 'accept' and at that point my usage jumped to 
about 98% to 103% (of a possible 200% with two processors).  The open 
did not add more usage that I could tell.

Then I closed the accept, leaving the connection open.  It stayed up 
near 100%.  When I close from the passive (server) end, Revolution 
usage drops to almost 0.

It looks like a bad thread is running when any socket is open.  It 
might be polling.

This looks like bugzilla food to me.

I'm on OS X 10.3.4 with dual 1.25 GHz processors.

Oh, don't test using a default button.  For me, that causes usage to 
jump up 27%.

Dar Scott



From jhj at jhj.com  Tue Aug 10 16:35:56 2004
From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry J)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:35:56 -0700
Subject: External primer
In-Reply-To: <20040809160044.696029300BF@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040809160044.696029300BF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <E1EB5870-EB0C-11D8-97C8-003065B58254@jhj.com>

> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:17:45 +0100
> From: Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Is Rev too "Mac focused"?
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <BD3D5429.26B4%kevin at runrev.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> On 8/8/04 8:27 am, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
>
>> Mark Weider is the guy. He wrote an external primer for RR, but I 
>> don't
>> know whatever became of it...
>
> It will be shipped as part of 2.5.

Thanks, Kevin, you just made my day. Looking forward to it.

Jerry Jensen


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 10 16:37:06 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:37:06 -0600
Subject: wait with messages
In-Reply-To: <20040810200649.055E1B6D6@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040810200649.055E1B6D6@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <0B708820-EB0D-11D8-8431-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 10, 2004, at 2:06 PM, K wrote:

> Sorry, I did not explaine the situation well enough.  I seems that 
> when I execute a wait with messages for a specific contition and 
> another event execute a wait with messages on a different condition 
> the seconds wait cancels the first.

The waits will nest.

You should use an event style of programming; the multi-threading style 
will not work.

You can poll with a send-in-time cycle.  Or you can use a setProp or 
other changing function, to send a message upon a change of some 
parameters or variables.

The Primer on Message Mechanics might give you some ideas, too.  Find 
it here:

      http://www.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html

The basic idea of the event style is that each event (user action or 
I/O event or delayed message created with send) makes a change to the 
state of your program perhaps such that other user action or I/O events 
or delayed messages are destined to come, all creating the behavior you 
want.

Dar Scott


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Tue Aug 10 16:37:43 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:37:43 -0400
Subject: dBase lib
Message-ID: <20040810203328.2CF8B30AC3@mail.rtl.org>

While I'm new to Rev, I haven't found any way to natively use .dbf  (dBase,
FoxPro, etc.) files. It appears that I need to find a dBase library.
 
After searching the list (Google) and looking at a few vendors I have come
up blank. Is there one out there somewhere?
 
Dave

From userev at canelasoftware.com  Tue Aug 10 16:41:43 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:41:43 -0700
Subject: MYSTERIOUS GRAY BACKGROUND
In-Reply-To: <BD3E6494.241E%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD3E6494.241E%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <B072EE78-EB0D-11D8-9DDA-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 10, 2004, at 8:40 AM, Bill wrote:

> PS It must be a feature or other people that have tried printing cards 
> would
> complain...

I have just made a habit of giving my backgrounds a color (usually 
white).
Before I understood inheritance issues, this one stumped me as well.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 10 16:59:46 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:59:46 -0600
Subject: opening sockets and cpu usage
In-Reply-To: <80030B60-EB0B-11D8-8431-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <5408DBA0-EAF7-11D8-AFE4-003065CC999E@pi.be>
	<80030B60-EB0B-11D8-8431-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <35FBC692-EB10-11D8-8431-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 10, 2004, at 2:26 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> It looks like a bad thread is running when any socket is open.  It 
> might be polling.
>
> This looks like bugzilla food to me.

I don't see any new threads added.  A polling thread might be OK under 
some conditions.

Normally Rev makes 200 system calls a second, but with sockets on, it 
makes about 80,000.

Dar Scott


From RGould8 at aol.com  Tue Aug 10 17:14:44 2004
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:14:44 EDT
Subject: Way to detect if IE is installed?
Message-ID: <da.10f60d17.2e4a94c4@aol.com>

Can anyone tell me if there's a way to detect on Mac OS X if IE is installed, 
via Revolution?   Since the user could move IE to other locations on their 
hard-drive, I can't really detect via file-path.

From RGould8 at aol.com  Tue Aug 10 17:27:11 2004
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:27:11 EDT
Subject: Way to print contents of scrolling group?
Message-ID: <ce.546fc54b.2e4a97af@aol.com>

I've got a group of objects that are grouped together within a scrolling 
group object on a card, and I'd like to print the contents of that group, even 
though it's not all visible on the screen at once?   Is this possible in Rev?   
All the parameters for the print command appear to be card and stack-related, 
not object-related.

From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Aug 10 17:32:16 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:32:16 +0200
Subject: opening sockets and cpu usage
In-Reply-To: <35FBC692-EB10-11D8-8431-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <5408DBA0-EAF7-11D8-AFE4-003065CC999E@pi.be>
	<80030B60-EB0B-11D8-8431-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<35FBC692-EB10-11D8-8431-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <C05335C0-EB14-11D8-802A-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hello,

Le 10 ao?t 04, ? 22:59, Dar Scott a ?crit :

>
> On Aug 10, 2004, at 2:26 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>
>> It looks like a bad thread is running when any socket is open.  It 
>> might be polling.
>>
>> This looks like bugzilla food to me.
>
> I don't see any new threads added.  A polling thread might be OK under 
> some conditions.
>
> Normally Rev makes 200 system calls a second, but with sockets on, it 
> makes about 80,000.

... and 1/20 of the sended requests, using the "open socket" command 
don't never arrive to destination... This is an Metacard historical 
bug. As a workaround, i avoid to use this command and use the "POST 
Method" to the Apache port + a php sockets listener/translator instead, 
where the php script is binded, first side, to Apache on port 80 and, 
second side, to the Revolution server-side app on the port xxxx this 
app accept connection :

> accept connections on port "xxxx" with message "newconnect"

Works just as expected and take advantage of the Apache+PHP ability to 
replace MC/Rev in what represants, in my opinion, one of its oldest and 
most dangerous MC/Rev limitation...

The php script example can be found in the list archives in searching 
about the Metacard+PostgreSQL threads.

Best, Pierre

> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From cteno4 at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 10 17:42:35 2004
From: cteno4 at earthlink.net (cteno4)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:42:35 -0400
Subject: Callbacks on players on Windows
Message-ID: <20040810213427.B620A930068@mail.runrev.com>

I have been setting callbacks on my players so that when the audio file 
is done (wav files), i can hide the pause button. i found that i have had 
to pull the end callback time to at least 10 ticks from the total 
duration of the file when loaded into the player to get consisitant 
callbacks sent. On the mac i can just set the callback to the duration of 
the player and it works every time. even trimming 10 clicks off the 
duration for the end callback on windows i get probably 1 in 25 that 
never get called when the player plays to the end. the player is hidden.

any ideas of whats going on here?

thanks

jeff


Jeffrey H. Reynolds
6620 Michaels Dr.
Bethesda, MD  20817

301.469.8562

email: cteno4 at earthlink.net
       cteno4 at aol.com


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Aug 10 18:06:31 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:06:31 +1000
Subject: Way to detect if IE is installed?
In-Reply-To: <da.10f60d17.2e4a94c4@aol.com>
References: <da.10f60d17.2e4a94c4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <893EC206-EB19-11D8-AF0F-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I would check in the Applications folder, then in the user's 
Applications folder (if it exists). If you haven't found it by then, 
ask the user where it is (allowing them to say it isn't there) and 
store it's location in the custom property for use next time. If it has 
been moved out of the standard Applications folder, then I think you 
are justified in asking for it to be located, or assuming it isn't 
there.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 11 Aug 2004, at 7:17 am, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> Can anyone tell me if there's a way to detect on Mac OS X if IE is 
> installed,
> via Revolution?   Since the user could move IE to other locations on 
> their
> hard-drive, I can't really detect via file-path.


From bobnelson at mac.com  Tue Aug 10 18:19:54 2004
From: bobnelson at mac.com (Bob Nelson)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:19:54 -0700
Subject: Arrgh...
Message-ID: <BD3E981A.101B4%bobnelson@mac.com>

Mark Brownell wrote:

> Not sure what you are doing but there is a limit to how much
> information may be contained in a single line of a field object. I
> would try putting your parsed data into a global variable to see if
> that solves the problem.

> HTH,

> Mark

First, THANK YOU!

Second, I realized that the problem was a chunk of my code which didn't
clear out the previous iteration and, instead, tagged each run successively
onto the end of a prior run, resulting in a line that continued to grow.  By
the third iteration, the line was too big and when placed back into a field,
did this weird thing instead of reporting an error.  (I guess that qualifies
as an error code, now that I know what it is!)

Third, if anyone at Rev is listening, I have a suggestion for a future
release...  Make the breakpoints follow your code!  It is frustrating to set
breakpoints in a long series of code and when you add/delete a line, your
breakpoint is now out-of-whack with where you wanted it to be.  This would
be a nice feature...

Thanks again,

Bob 
-- 
My mind works like lightning. One brilliant flash and its gone.


From tac at mac.com  Tue Aug 10 18:44:42 2004
From: tac at mac.com (Takaaki Furukawa)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:44:42 -0700
Subject: Versions of RR
In-Reply-To: <49642.192.168.1.10.1092163784.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408101026050.23411-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<4967A0D3-EAF4-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41190C84.9090900@fourthworld.com>
	<49642.192.168.1.10.1092163784.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
Message-ID: <DE9305B4-EB1E-11D8-85BF-00039308EC44@mac.com>

> I see some posts that talk about the 2.5 and 2.6 engine of RR.

  The version numbers of Engines seem to be based on MetaCard
rather than Revolution. Some versions of Revolution Engine are even 
called
"mc" and if you do "mc -h" you'll see the credit that says "MetaCard 
2.5."

Takaaki Furukawa


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 10 18:50:53 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:50:53 -0700
Subject: List archive Aug04 experiment
In-Reply-To: <A6C20B52-EB0A-11D8-847B-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BBC4769D-EB1F-11D8-BF31-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 10, 2004, at 01:19 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> So in the interest of mining the rev-list archive I have thrown 
> together the last 800+ messages from this month and created two 
> different versions of the same MTML file.
>
> If you go to http://www.gizmotron.org/intuition/download.html you will 
> see at the bottom links for the free Intuition Reader. (MacOSX and 
> Windows only for now) Use this to:
>
> If you use the free reader you can either surf to this file on the 
> internet:
> at: http://www.gizmotron.org/revolution/aug04RevList.txt and run it 
> from there or you can download this file and unzip it and then open > it:
> http://www.gizmotron.org/revolution/testList.zip


If anyone is trying this thing out you need to download the .zip file 
and unzip it first then open it. I discovered a missing property in a 
function call that works fine as a hyperlink but is missing the type 
value so it is not working right now as an entered hyperlink (MTML 
Link). This will all be fixed by tomorrow after I drink a six-pack and 
take in some rays and the swimming pool.

Mark


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Tue Aug 10 19:23:04 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:23:04 +0200
Subject: opening sockets and cpu usage
Message-ID: <3AE76F54-EB24-11D8-AFE4-003065CC999E@pi.be>

> Re: opening sockets and cpu usage
> 	? 	From: Pierre Sahores
> 	? 	 Subject: Re: opening sockets and cpu usage
> 	? 	 Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:31:47 -0700
>
> Hello,
>
>
> Le 10 ao?t 04, ? 22:59, Dar Scott a ?crit :
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 10, 2004, at 2:26 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>>
>>
>>  It looks like a bad thread is running when any socket is open. It 
>> might be polling.
>>
>> This looks like bugzilla food to me.
>>
>>  I don't see any new threads added. A polling thread might be OK 
>> under some conditions.
>>
>> Normally Rev makes 200 system calls a second, but with sockets on, it 
>> makes about 80,000.
>
>  ... and 1/20 of the sended requests, using the "open socket" command 
> don't never arrive to destination... This is an Metacard historical 
> bug. As a workaround, i avoid to use this command and use the "POST 
> Method" to the Apache port + a php sockets listener/translator 
> instead, where the php script is binded, first side, to Apache on port 
> 80 and, second side, to the Revolution server-side app on the port 
> xxxx this app accept connection :
>
>
> accept connections on port "xxxx" with message "newconnect"
>
>  Works just as expected and take advantage of the Apache+PHP ability 
> to replace MC/Rev in what represants, in my opinion, one of its oldest 
> and most dangerous MC/Rev limitation...
>
> The php script example can be found in the list archives in searching 
> about the Metacard+PostgreSQL threads.
>
>
> Best, Pierre
>
>
> Dar Scott

Tnx Dar and Pierre,

What I don't understand is some others don't have this problem when 
working with the same stack.
Their cpu usage was under 3%.
Anyway I fed this bug to its Zilla  (1963)

Greets,
WA


From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Aug 10 19:36:35 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 19:36:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: the script
Message-ID: <20040810233635.7B238C00A@xprdmailfe13.nwk.excite.com>



Can this be done in a frontscript with out any significant anomalies?  Meaning can I place this code in a frontscript so that every object runs through my macro system?

Kevin


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Tue 08/10, Dan Shafer < revdan at danshafer.com > wrote:
From: Dan Shafer [mailto: revdan at danshafer.com]
To: nnoydb at excite.com
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:45:01 -0700
Subject: Re: the script

Might be possible. Check out using editScript message<br><br>on editScript theObject<br>  -- do some stuff to the script<br>  -- which usually means you put the script into a variable,<br>  -- munge the text in the variable<br>  -- and then set the script of the object to the variable<br>end editScript<br><br>On Aug 10, 2004, at 12:56 PM, K wrote:<br><br>><br>><br>> Actually, I would like to alter "the script" itself before validation  <br>> and it being saved to the object (stack, card or button).  Also modify  <br>> upon retreival.<br>><br>> Basically, I would like to use my own parse tree to validate the code  <br>> and produce a MACRO/Preprocessor for my code.<br>><br>> Kevin<br>><br>><br>> -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-<br>> Disclaimer:<br>><br>> Any resemblance between the above views and those of my<br>> employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely<br>> coincidental.<br>> Any resemblance between the above and my own views is  <br>> non-deterministic.<br>><br>>  The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to  <br>> hold<br>> them<br>> is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of<br>> the reader<br>>  is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient.<br>> (A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the<br>> scope of this article.)<br>><br>><br>><br>>  --- On Tue 08/10, Dan Shafer < revdan at danshafer.com > wrote:<br>> From: Dan Shafer [mailto: revdan at danshafer.com]<br>> To: nnoydb at excite.com, use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:52:43 -0700<br>> Subject: Re: the script<br>><br>> Not clear what you mean here, Kevin. You don't "intercept" properties  <br>> <br>as such. Do you mean you want to override the script or are you  <br>> trying <br>to intercept the editScript message?<br>On Aug 10, 2004, at  <br>> 6:40 AM, K wrote:<br><br>><br>> Is there any way to intercept "the  <br>> script" ptoperty for all objects?<br>><br>> Kevin<br>><br>><br>><br>>  <br>> -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-<br>>  <br>> Disclaimer:<br>><br>> Any resemblance between the above views and  <br>> those of my<br>> employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are  <br>> purely<br>> coincidental.<br>> Any resemblance between the above and  <br>> my own views is <br>> non-deterministic.<br>><br>>  The question of  <br>> the existence of views in the absence of anyone to <br>> hold<br>>  <br>> them<br>> is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the  <br>> existence of<br>> the reader<br>>  is left as an exercise for the  <br>> second god coefficient.<br>> (A discussion of non-orthogonal,  <br>> non-integral polytheism is beyond the<br>> scope of this  <br>> article.)<br>><br>><br>><br>>  <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Join Excite! -  <br>> http://www.excite.com<br>> The most personalized portal on the  <br>> Web!<br>> _______________________________________________<br>>  <br>> use-revolution mailing list<br>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>>  <br>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use- <br>> revolution<br>><br>><br>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>D <br>> an Shafer, Revolutionary<br>Author of  "Revolution: Software at the  <br>> Speed of Thought"<br>http://www.revolutionpros.com for more  <br>> info<br>Available at Runtime Revolution Store  <br>> (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)<br><br><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com<br>> The most personalized portal on the Web!<br>><br><br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 10 19:47:26 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 19:47:26 -0400
Subject: Versions of RR
In-Reply-To: <DE9305B4-EB1E-11D8-85BF-00039308EC44@mac.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408101026050.23411-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<4967A0D3-EAF4-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<41190C84.9090900@fourthworld.com>
	<49642.192.168.1.10.1092163784.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
	<DE9305B4-EB1E-11D8-85BF-00039308EC44@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A2468280-EB27-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 10, 2004, at 6:44 PM, Takaaki Furukawa wrote:

>> I see some posts that talk about the 2.5 and 2.6 engine of RR.
>
>  The version numbers of Engines seem to be based on MetaCard
> rather than Revolution. Some versions of Revolution Engine are even 
> called
> "mc" and if you do "mc -h" you'll see the credit that says "MetaCard 
> 2.5."

Well, that would make sense, and in fact, it is exactly the reason. 
After all, Revolution's engine IS the MetaCard engine.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From greghall at uvic.ca  Tue Aug 10 19:44:03 2004
From: greghall at uvic.ca (Greg Hall)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:44:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Way to detect if IE is installed?
In-Reply-To: <da.10f60d17.2e4a94c4@aol.com>
References: <da.10f60d17.2e4a94c4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <49272.192.168.1.10.1092181443.squirrel@192.168.1.10>

I recall from using RealBasic in the past that there is some AppleEvent
you can execute that locates a program based on its creator code. I think
there is some way to enter this into Script Editor, but I forget what the
command is.

This would enable you to find any copy of IE on the users system
regardless of where it is installed. In fact, the creator code is all you
need to tell the program what to do, if you're trying to control IE from
RR. Effectively, you don't actually know where the copy of IE is
installed, and you don't need to - you can  launch and control it without
knowing where it is.

I don't know if it is possible just to detect the presence of IE, but is
possible to try the event that launches it, and if it fails, the user
doesn't have it.

Below is some code I used in RealBasic to launch Graphic Converter if it
isn't already running. One issue is that once you launch an app with an
AppleEvent, if you try to tell the app to do something before it has
finished launching, the event will fail. Unfortunately, there is no event
to find out if the app has finished launching.

What my code does is wait for GraphicConverter to launch by trying an
AppleEvent that reports how many windows GraphicConverter has open. This
event will fail unless GraphicConverter is finished loading an has
displayed its UI. So the program simply continuously tries executing the
AppleEvent until it is successful.

IE should support the same event for how many windows are open, so the
idea shd work.

You would need to adapt this code for RR (I just started using RR
yesterday, so I have no idea how it supports AppleEvents). This code is
fairly low-level, in RealBasic you have to specify the event type and
class and creator, so it may be hard to follow.

========================================
  'Wait for Finder to launch GC

  ae = NewAppleEvent("aevt", "odoc", "MACS")
  obj = GetUniqueIDObjectDescriptor("appf", nil, "GKON")
  ae.ObjectSpecifierParam("----") = obj
  if not ae.Send then
    MsgBox "GraphicConverter is not available."
    Quit
  end if

  'Wait until GC is able to report how many windows it has
  'That way, we know it's ready for events

  ae = NewAppleEvent("core", "getd", "GKON")
  obj = GetOrdinalObjectDescriptor("cwin", nil, "all ")
  ae.ObjectSpecifierParam("----") = obj
  while (not ae.Send)
  wend

  'Bring myself to front.
  ae = NewAppleEvent("aevt", "odoc", "MACS")
  if DebugBuild then
    obj = GetUniqueIDObjectDescriptor("appf", nil, "RBv2")
  else
    obj = GetUniqueIDObjectDescriptor("appf", nil, "Bant")
  end if
  ae.ObjectSpecifierParam("----") = obj
  if not ae.Send then
    MsgBox "Unable to activate self."
  end if
========================================

> Can anyone tell me if there's a way to detect on Mac OS X if IE is
> installed,
> via Revolution?   Since the user could move IE to other locations on their
> hard-drive, I can't really detect via file-path.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

================
Greg Hall
greghall at uvic.ca
================

From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Tue Aug 10 19:55:40 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:55:40 +0200
Subject: memory - why isn't it getting freed
In-Reply-To: <4117F5F3.5080300@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <000801c47e19$46ab2540$64fea8c0@chris1>
 <4117F5F3.5080300@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <a06110413bd3f1088468a@[141.89.100.235]>

On 8/9/04 9:00 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote:

>Can anyone tell me the reasons for memory not getting freed up like it
>should?
>
>I have an application that consists of a login stack, another main stack
>where most of the program functionality occurs, and then several other
>external stacks (stored as compressed data in a Valentina database) that
>contain multimedia content such as graphics, audio files, text, etc.  These
>stacks get extracted from the database, decompressed, and then accessed to
>retrieve that content.  The problem is, when I'm done with these external
>stacks, I use the delete stack command, which should remove them from
>memory, but it doesn't.  I have checked every function I can think of
>(revLoadedStacks, openStacks, stacksInUse, etc.) to see if Rev thinks these
>stacks are still open in some way, but that is not the case.  The memory
>just doesn't get freed.  It doesn't return to normal until I completely exit
>my application.  This is not a good thing because used memory keeps building
>up and up, until eventually the application crashes because the system has
>run out of memory.
>
>This is a serious problem, and I'm not sure if it's something I'm doing
>wrong, or if I've discovered some bug in Rev.  So what I'm wondering is,
>what would cause memory to not get freed the way it should?  Files that the
>stacks might have open perhaps?  But if that were the case, why would the
>stack not appear when using one of the above functions?  Anything else?

I suspect that at least some of the non-freed memory is coming from 
Valentina caching. When you extract your stacks, the extracted 
content is cached by valentina before being passed to Rev.

Robert Brenstein

From briany at qldlearning.com  Tue Aug 10 20:43:04 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:43:04 -0000
Subject: the script
In-Reply-To: <20040810233635.7B238C00A@xprdmailfe13.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <9D3CBA0A-ACC3-11D6-8353-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

It sounds to me like an interesting endeavor... one thing I had 
contemplated in the past was using the same means to write an xTalk 
optimizer which would optimize your code before compiling. Unroll some 
loops, change things like "put x+2 into x" to "add 2 to x", maybe even 
translate repeat loops to use "repeat for each" syntax when 
advantageous, etc.

It would be nifty to be able to drop in a macro plugin, an optimizer, 
and other goodies that would actually extend the language. Heck, in 
theory you could even create things like "dot syntax" plugins that just 
worked as pre and post processors.

> Can this be done in a frontscript with out any significant anomalies?  
> Meaning can I place this code in a frontscript so that every object 
> runs through my macro system?


From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Aug 10 20:54:32 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:54:32 -0300
Subject: Way to detect if IE is installed?
In-Reply-To: <49272.192.168.1.10.1092181443.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
References: <da.10f60d17.2e4a94c4@aol.com>
	<49272.192.168.1.10.1092181443.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
Message-ID: <01EEA492-EB31-11D8-AE41-0003936D012E@mac.com>


Just fetched from macScripter.net

ell application "Finder"
  ? ?try
  ? ?? ?if exists application file id "MSIE" then
  ? ?? ?? ?set iePath to application file id "MSIE"
  ? ?? ?? ?display dialog ("IE Located at: " & return & iePath & "") as 
string
  ? ?? ?end if
  ? ?on error --> In case it's not found
  ? ?? ?display dialog "Couldn't find IE!"
  ? ?end try
  end tell

you can use it to find other apps as well, just change the creator 
code. AppleScript can be fun!
cheers
andre


On Aug 10, 2004, at 8:44 PM, Greg Hall wrote:

> I recall from using RealBasic in the past that there is some AppleEvent
> you can execute that locates a program based on its creator code. I 
> think
> there is some way to enter this into Script Editor, but I forget what 
> the
> command is.
>
> This would enable you to find any copy of IE on the users system
> regardless of where it is installed. In fact, the creator code is all 
> you
> need to tell the program what to do, if you're trying to control IE 
> from
> RR. Effectively, you don't actually know where the copy of IE is
> installed, and you don't need to - you can  launch and control it 
> without
> knowing where it is.
>
> I don't know if it is possible just to detect the presence of IE, but 
> is
> possible to try the event that launches it, and if it fails, the user
> doesn't have it.
>
> Below is some code I used in RealBasic to launch Graphic Converter if 
> it
> isn't already running. One issue is that once you launch an app with an
> AppleEvent, if you try to tell the app to do something before it has
> finished launching, the event will fail. Unfortunately, there is no 
> event
> to find out if the app has finished launching.
>
> What my code does is wait for GraphicConverter to launch by trying an
> AppleEvent that reports how many windows GraphicConverter has open. 
> This
> event will fail unless GraphicConverter is finished loading an has
> displayed its UI. So the program simply continuously tries executing 
> the
> AppleEvent until it is successful.
>
> IE should support the same event for how many windows are open, so the
> idea shd work.
>
> You would need to adapt this code for RR (I just started using RR
> yesterday, so I have no idea how it supports AppleEvents). This code is
> fairly low-level, in RealBasic you have to specify the event type and
> class and creator, so it may be hard to follow.
>
> ========================================
>   'Wait for Finder to launch GC
>
>   ae = NewAppleEvent("aevt", "odoc", "MACS")
>   obj = GetUniqueIDObjectDescriptor("appf", nil, "GKON")
>   ae.ObjectSpecifierParam("----") = obj
>   if not ae.Send then
>     MsgBox "GraphicConverter is not available."
>     Quit
>   end if
>
>   'Wait until GC is able to report how many windows it has
>   'That way, we know it's ready for events
>
>   ae = NewAppleEvent("core", "getd", "GKON")
>   obj = GetOrdinalObjectDescriptor("cwin", nil, "all ")
>   ae.ObjectSpecifierParam("----") = obj
>   while (not ae.Send)
>   wend
>
>   'Bring myself to front.
>   ae = NewAppleEvent("aevt", "odoc", "MACS")
>   if DebugBuild then
>     obj = GetUniqueIDObjectDescriptor("appf", nil, "RBv2")
>   else
>     obj = GetUniqueIDObjectDescriptor("appf", nil, "Bant")
>   end if
>   ae.ObjectSpecifierParam("----") = obj
>   if not ae.Send then
>     MsgBox "Unable to activate self."
>   end if
> ========================================
>
>> Can anyone tell me if there's a way to detect on Mac OS X if IE is
>> installed,
>> via Revolution?   Since the user could move IE to other locations on 
>> their
>> hard-drive, I can't really detect via file-path.
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> ================
> Greg Hall
> greghall at uvic.ca
> ================
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Tue Aug 10 23:04:48 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:04:48 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
Message-ID: <41198CD0.9090300@wordtech-software.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'm a relatively novice Mac developer who's done most of my work in
AppleScript and AppleScript Studio. (See my website,
http://www.wordtech-software.com/aqua.html for some samples.)  I started
with these tools to get familiar with programming logic and GUI
development, and I've also done some brief learning with C just to get
the feel for it. Now I'm interested in learning things that will run on
multiple platforms. I'm in the process of studying Tcl/Tk, and also plan
to look at C++ (Qt), Java (Swing) and Python (wxPython).

I ran across Rev and downloaded the demo, and have played with it a bit.
It's very intriguing--on just about an hour of playing with it, it seems
very similar to AppleScript Studio in many ways, and the
cross-compilation--Windows, Mac Classic and OS X, Linux, and every
flavor of Unix under the sun--is really slick.  This is clearly a
serious development environment. I could spend a *long* time learning
this toolkit, and it feels comfortable enough to make that process
enjoyable.

However, because Rev, unlike the other languages and toolkits I'm
looking at, is a commercial toolkit and would represent a fairly
substantial investment on my part for what is a hobby (as opposed to a
professional investment), I'm wondering if some of the more seasoned
developers on this list would mind answering a few questions:

1. How closely does Rev resemble AppleScript--not in terms of its hooks
into the Mac OS, but on a more general scale--its syntax, its
programming logic, etc.? Does a background in AppleScript and
AppleScript Studio lessen the learning curve somewhat?

2. How does Rev compare to other cross-platform toolkits such as Qt and
Java/Swing? Does it have limitations over what these other systems can
do? Does it have advantages?

3. How does Rev compare specifically to other scripting languages,
especially Tcl/Tk and Python/wxPython? I'm studying Tcl/Tk out of a
slightly contrarian nature, as I know the GUI's that can be built with
Tk are more limited; wxPython, by contrast, is very rich. Can anyone
with experience with either of these development environments offer some
insight about how they compare to Rev?

4. Documentation. I note that Rev seems to come with fairly
comprehensive documentation built-in--the API reference, Transcript
dictionary, and some basic tutorials. I found it a bit hard to navigate,
although this may be something that can be overcome with a greater
investment of time. However, Apple has both a very complete (300+ plus
pages) API reference for AppleScript and AppleScript Studio, and
detailed introductory materials, that made learning AppleScript very
easy. I also note that there is a large pool of third-party
documentation on AppleScript, both informal (websites) and formal
(O'Reillly books). The same is true, especially, for Qt, Tcl/Tk (I just
spent $60 on two nice Prentice Hall books on Qt and Tcl) and of course
Java. By contrast, I haven't noticed a large pool of documentation for
Rev outside of that which comes with the application. Is it out there,
and I just haven't seen it? Is there an O'Reilly book in the works? I
guess I'm curious as to what additional independent resources there are
for learning Transcript apart from what comes with Rev itself.

I appreciate any advice anyone can give me!

- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
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From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Aug 10 23:13:02 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 20:13:02 -0700
Subject: dBase lib
In-Reply-To: <20040810203328.2CF8B30AC3@mail.rtl.org>
References: <20040810203328.2CF8B30AC3@mail.rtl.org>
Message-ID: <14227880099.20040810201302@ahsoftware.net>

Dave-

Have you tried setting up an ODBC link to your dbf files?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 10 23:23:49 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:23:49 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <41198CD0.9090300@wordtech-software.com>
References: <41198CD0.9090300@wordtech-software.com>
Message-ID: <DC93FB14-EB45-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 10, 2004, at 11:04 PM, Kevin Walzer wrote:

> 1. How closely does Rev resemble AppleScript--not in terms of its hooks
> into the Mac OS, but on a more general scale--its syntax, its
> programming logic, etc.? Does a background in AppleScript and
> AppleScript Studio lessen the learning curve somewhat?

Absolutely. The two languages are like close cousins, as you've 
probably already realized. Transcript is just MUCH larger, due to its 
MUCH broader scope. Note also, that Transcript can call uncompiled 
AppleScripts directly from strings in Transcript

e.g.
	 do "tell finder...(etc.)" as AppleScript

So sometimes, the fastest way to accomplish something (on Mac at least) 
will be to slip in some AppleScript.

>
> 2. How does Rev compare to other cross-platform toolkits such as Qt and
> Java/Swing? Does it have limitations over what these other systems can
> do? Does it have advantages?

It is easier to develop in. It is arguably faster. It is arguably a 
more "closed" environment, and has arguably less graphics capability 
(in particular.)

Transcript has an extremely broad and capable scope. If you have been 
enjoying AppleScript, you'll find Transcript powerful, easy, and a lot 
of fun.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Aug 10 23:27:38 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:27:38 -0500
Subject: Version stuff...
Message-ID: <4119922A.7060003@chipp.com>

I use this function to 'get' the version of the IDE and the Engine. It 
works for both MetaCard and RR.

on answerVersion pWhere
   if exists(stack "revMenuBar") then
     put "RunRev version: " & revAppVersion() & return & "MetaCard 
engine version: " & the version & return & "Build Number: " & the 
buildNumber into theMsg
   else
     put "MetaCard engine version: " & the version & return & "Build 
Number: " & the buildNumber into theMsg
   end if
   if pWhere is empty then
     --put theMsg
   else
     go inv stack "answer Dialog"
     set the loc of stack "answer Dialog" to the screenloc
     show stack "answer Dialog"
     answer information theMsg
   end if
end answerVersion



From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Aug 10 23:42:14 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:42:14 -0500
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <41198CD0.9090300@wordtech-software.com>
References: <41198CD0.9090300@wordtech-software.com>
Message-ID: <41199596.5000203@chipp.com>

Kevin,

Welcome to the best kept secret for many of us professional developers. 
I've yet to find something I can't build using RR. See below for some 
thoughts and answers.

Kevin Walzer wrote:


> 1. How closely does Rev resemble AppleScript--not in terms of its hooks
> into the Mac OS, but on a more general scale--its syntax, its
> programming logic, etc.? Does a background in AppleScript and
> AppleScript Studio lessen the learning curve somewhat?

I'm primarily a PC programmer, but have 'dabbled' some in Applescript. 
Just like Applescript uses an 'english-like' syntax, so does Revolution. 
The language is quite robust, in fact, rarely have I ever had to go 
outside the language for both Mac and PC applications. I've created a 
neat little image app called "ButtonGadget" (www.buttongadget.com) using 
RR with no externals. Took me only a couple of weeks to develop.

> 
> 2. How does Rev compare to other cross-platform toolkits such as Qt and
> Java/Swing? Does it have limitations over what these other systems can
> do? Does it have advantages?

I probably am not the best person to ask, but my partner is a seasoned C 
programmer and has used most of the toolkits you've talked about. He 
tells me I can build apps an order of magnitude faster than the fastest 
C programmers he knows. He also is a big fan of RR, and Altuit (our 
company) builds externals for it as well. (See 
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/default.htm)

As you probably already know, QT is even more expensive than Rev. Also, 
Rev has an Express product which is very affordable. Actually, one of 
the biggest advantages Rev has going for it, is this list. It's VERY 
active and both newbies and advanced users are welcome :-)

> 
> 3. How does Rev compare specifically to other scripting languages,
> especially Tcl/Tk and Python/wxPython? I'm studying Tcl/Tk out of a
> slightly contrarian nature, as I know the GUI's that can be built with
> Tk are more limited; wxPython, by contrast, is very rich. Can anyone
> with experience with either of these development environments offer some
> insight about how they compare to Rev?

Dan Shafer is a big python nut, and perhaps he'll chime in here. I doubt 
you can create the types of interfaces in Python as you can in Rev. In 
fact, I believe Dan has written books on both Python and Rev and he 
could give you some advice...(He's currently mostly using Rev these days).

> 
> 4. Documentation. I note that Rev seems to come with fairly
> comprehensive documentation built-in--the API reference, Transcript
> dictionary, and some basic tutorials. I found it a bit hard to navigate,
> although this may be something that can be overcome with a greater
> investment of time. However, Apple has both a very complete (300+ plus
> pages) API reference for AppleScript and AppleScript Studio, and
> detailed introductory materials, that made learning AppleScript very
> easy. I also note that there is a large pool of third-party
> documentation on AppleScript, both informal (websites) and formal
> (O'Reillly books). The same is true, especially, for Qt, Tcl/Tk (I just
> spent $60 on two nice Prentice Hall books on Qt and Tcl) and of course
> Java. By contrast, I haven't noticed a large pool of documentation for
> Rev outside of that which comes with the application. Is it out there,
> and I just haven't seen it? Is there an O'Reilly book in the works? I
> guess I'm curious as to what additional independent resources there are
> for learning Transcript apart from what comes with Rev itself.

You can purchase the Reference Manuals from Rev direct...I did. They 
make for great 'bedtime reading' but you'll probably also want to buy 
Dan's book as well. It's great for those just getting started. You can 
find it on the RR site.

> 
> I appreciate any advice anyone can give me!

Your welcome! Hope you decide to join our community:-)

-Chipp Walters


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Aug 11 00:00:35 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:00:35 -0500
Subject: MYSTERIOUS GRAY BACKGROUND
In-Reply-To: <BD3E6494.241E%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD3E6494.241E%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <411999E3.50203@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/10/04 10:40 AM, Bill wrote:
> This means that the gray background color is somehow in revolution itself as
> it shows through when I tell the background of the stack to be clear and is
> white when I tell the bg of the stack to be white.

 From the docs, under "backgroundColor": "On Mac OS, OS X, and Windows 
systems, if the backgroundColor of all objects in the object hierarchy 
is empty, the background color set by the system is used." Maybe this is 
what you are seeing.

> So there must be some
> setting in RunRev like a preference where you can tell it that gray is not
> an appropriate color? Or perhaps this is in the docs as a feature?

I don't think there's a way to change it currently via Preferences. Most 
people just set their stack's background color if they want something else.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug 11 01:12:38 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:12:38 -0700
Subject: wait with messages
In-Reply-To: <0B708820-EB0D-11D8-8431-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <20040810200649.055E1B6D6@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
	<0B708820-EB0D-11D8-8431-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4119AAC6.3090006@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> The Primer on Message Mechanics might give you some ideas, too.  Find it 
> here:
> 
>      http://www.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html

That's a wonderful tutorial Dar.  The animated message path simulation 
is great!

Thanks for posting that.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Aug 11 01:19:44 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:19:44 -0400
Subject: wait with messages
In-Reply-To: <4119AAC6.3090006@fourthworld.com>
References: <20040810200649.055E1B6D6@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
	<0B708820-EB0D-11D8-8431-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4119AAC6.3090006@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <0E59A4BC-EB56-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 1:12 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> The Primer on Message Mechanics might give you some ideas, too.  Find 
>> it here:
>>      http://www.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html
>
> That's a wonderful tutorial Dar.  The animated message path simulation 
> is great!
>
> Thanks for posting that.

Yup. Should be required reading, and distributed with the Rev package. 
Not only is it remarkably helpful info, it has some great techniques in 
its presentation. Dar, it would be a great thing for the new 
"RevOnline" doohickey.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Aug 11 01:24:51 2004
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:24:51 -0500
Subject: errorDialog Message question
Message-ID: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>

Gang,

I've been in the archives looking for others who may have had trouble 
with the errorDialog message.

While most of the posts dealt with the errorData this message delivers, 
my problem revolves around trapping this message with a handler in the 
IDE. I am developing a script editor and want to handle my own 
execution errors.

It seems the revBackScript is the only one getting any errorDialog 
messages in the Rev 2.2 IDE. If I lock error dialogs, then I get the 
message, but I can't put a lock error dialog statement in every 
handler, now can I? I've tried inserting a script in back like 
revBackScript, but it doesn't matter where I put it, I don't get 
errorDialog messages unless I remove revBackScript.

I know Richard has been mucking about with this rascal, maybe he knows 
the path to salvation?

Help, please.

-Jerry Daniels


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug 11 02:00:43 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:00:43 -0700
Subject: errorDialog Message question
In-Reply-To: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
References: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <4119B60B.7010102@fourthworld.com>

Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Gang,
> 
> I've been in the archives looking for others who may have had trouble 
> with the errorDialog message.
> 
> While most of the posts dealt with the errorData this message delivers, 
> my problem revolves around trapping this message with a handler in the 
> IDE. I am developing a script editor and want to handle my own execution 
> errors.
> 
> It seems the revBackScript is the only one getting any errorDialog 
> messages in the Rev 2.2 IDE. If I lock error dialogs, then I get the 
> message, but I can't put a lock error dialog statement in every handler, 
> now can I? I've tried inserting a script in back like revBackScript, but 
> it doesn't matter where I put it, I don't get errorDialog messages 
> unless I remove revBackScript.
> 
> I know Richard has been mucking about with this rascal, maybe he knows 
> the path to salvation?

I put together an article on extending the Rev message path for just 
such occassions:
<http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/revolution_message_path.html>

In reference to backscripts, I note there:

    Scripts inserted first take precedence over scripts inserted later.

So when you insert a backScript, it goes in bsck of any existing 
backscripts.

Fortunately, the opposite is true of the corollary to backscript: 
frontScripts.

With frontScripts, those inserted later are put in front.  So if you 
insert a frontScript and the Rev IDE is already loaded, your script can 
get system messages before the IDE gets them.

Note that the errorDialog message will only address execution issues. 
To trap for compilation issues you'll want to handle the 
scriptParsingError message.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From alex at harryscollar.com  Wed Aug 11 05:17:00 2004
From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:17:00 +1000
Subject: Quick Rev <=> Flash review
In-Reply-To: <20040809103716.A45449300AE@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040809103716.A45449300AE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040811160256.02838c18@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>


hi

for this particular job i just wanted to use flash for the fancy (yet 
functional) interface and somehow integrate rev (like i do for most of my 
projects :)

i had explored the flash swf format before by embedding flash [as 
quicktime] and wrote a little tool to inject bitmaps into swf data and 
generate valid swf files etc

but this time i wanted to do something different..

hmm.. i think everyone prefers smooth anti-aliased lines over the jaggies 
so i won't go there, one day if runrev don't anti-aliase rev or integrate 
native swf, i may if time permits like to delve into imagedata but 
basically the other problem was tighter integration ie control.. so 
embedded qt flash wouldn't cut it .. Trevor's mango media dll sounds very 
useful but still looking for a project to use it on

i knew rev was up for the task so .. how?

this proved a good opportunity to also upgrade to the latest flash.. i 
stuffed round, read some sites & decided to use full screen projector exe 
mode for the [flash] interface component and a floating rev control window. 
you can get more separation between interface and logic than two separate 
exes (4 if you include the mac versions) in two separate languages :)

other issues:
- qt currently only supports flash 5 and i wanted to use the new commands 
and components in flash pro mx
- FSCommand (currently) seems limited for future development

at the end of the day rev's ability to run as a little custom tcp server 
allowed communication/control of the flash bit.. i love rev

swf is an open format but qt, svg & swf are not as simple as bmp files so i 
can see runrev's basic problem with wanting to support something like 
actionscript (the embedded language of flash).. another language, need more 
developers etc heaps of reasons but a start would be nice, because even on 
linux delivering the full quicktime experience is limited.. yet i can run 
rev & flash easily but independently,,

anyway this is all still work in progress but so far so good, rev is simply 
a indispensable tool

regards
alex


At 08:37 PM 9/08/2004, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:
>>Re: Quick Rev <=> Flash review
>Assuming you used QT for Flash or is there any other way withotu it?
>But do you think, I dont remember when and how many times as I asked
>for that, a nativ Flash support in rev would be that Killer App(Plug
>in)? to revs real target market, as Dan mentioned before?


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Aug 11 06:02:59 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:02:59 +0200
Subject: Quick Rev <=> Flash review
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040811160256.02838c18@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEGKGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

as I mentioned in an email one or two months ago, it's not hard
to smooth out graphics in RR. Including anti-aliasing.

If you draw a black line, draw a number of intermediate grey or
your other colors to simulate the antialias. Draw from shadow to
border to avoid shadow overlap.

You can also use a control's shadow to do it in some cases.

You can use my gradient tool too.
Create a rectangle that serves as the shadow, draw the gradient from
color x to y... (hum... idea for features... )

I still have to program the angled gradients. Maybe i'll get to it
soon.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Alex Shaw
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:17
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Quick Rev <=> Flash review
>
>
>
> hi
>
> for this particular job i just wanted to use flash for the fancy (yet
> functional) interface and somehow integrate rev (like i do for most of my
> projects :)
>
> i had explored the flash swf format before by embedding flash [as
> quicktime] and wrote a little tool to inject bitmaps into swf data and
> generate valid swf files etc
>
> but this time i wanted to do something different..
>
> hmm.. i think everyone prefers smooth anti-aliased lines over the jaggies
> so i won't go there, one day if runrev don't anti-aliase rev or integrate
> native swf, i may if time permits like to delve into imagedata but
> basically the other problem was tighter integration ie control.. so
> embedded qt flash wouldn't cut it .. Trevor's mango media dll sounds very
> useful but still looking for a project to use it on
>
> i knew rev was up for the task so .. how?
>
> this proved a good opportunity to also upgrade to the latest flash.. i
> stuffed round, read some sites & decided to use full screen projector exe
> mode for the [flash] interface component and a floating rev
> control window.
> you can get more separation between interface and logic than two separate
> exes (4 if you include the mac versions) in two separate languages :)
>
> other issues:
> - qt currently only supports flash 5 and i wanted to use the new commands
> and components in flash pro mx
> - FSCommand (currently) seems limited for future development
>
> at the end of the day rev's ability to run as a little custom tcp server
> allowed communication/control of the flash bit.. i love rev
>
> swf is an open format but qt, svg & swf are not as simple as bmp
> files so i
> can see runrev's basic problem with wanting to support something like
> actionscript (the embedded language of flash).. another language,
> need more
> developers etc heaps of reasons but a start would be nice,
> because even on
> linux delivering the full quicktime experience is limited.. yet i can run
> rev & flash easily but independently,,
>
> anyway this is all still work in progress but so far so good, rev
> is simply
> a indispensable tool
>
> regards
> alex
>
>
> At 08:37 PM 9/08/2004, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:
> >>Re: Quick Rev <=> Flash review
> >Assuming you used QT for Flash or is there any other way withotu it?
> >But do you think, I dont remember when and how many times as I asked
> >for that, a nativ Flash support in rev would be that Killer App(Plug
> >in)? to revs real target market, as Dan mentioned before?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Wed Aug 11 05:57:55 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:57:55 +0200
Subject: Profile woes
In-Reply-To: <67B36F9A-EAFD-11D8-B9DF-000A9566DE9E@rof.net>
References: <67B36F9A-EAFD-11D8-B9DF-000A9566DE9E@rof.net>
Message-ID: <a06110416bd3f9be60505@[141.89.100.235]>

>
>Also, still can't use the Polish keyboard, not in Rev, not in 
>Standalones, even though the Polish keyboard works in every other 
>app ;-(
>

When typing using Polish keyboard under OS9 in MetaCard with engine 
2.6, I get two characters inserted into the field for each special 
character typed. This happens also for other keyboards in CE script 
(tried Slovak and Hungarian).

Seems that input/unicode is not handled correctly for non-default 
system script.

You should enter this in Bugzilla. Sounds like engine problem to me. 
Send me the bug number so I can corraborate.

Robert

From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Aug 11 06:36:40 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:36:40 +0100
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <41198CD0.9090300@wordtech-software.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>

At 23:04 10/08/2004 -0400, Kevin Walzer wrote:

>However, because Rev, unlike the other languages and toolkits I'm
>looking at, is a commercial toolkit and would represent a fairly
>substantial investment on my part for what is a hobby (as opposed to a
>professional investment), I'm wondering if some of the more seasoned
>developers on this list would mind answering a few questions:

I'm also a hobbyist rather than a professional user, so I'll specifically 
answer this part. Even when you're doing something you enjoy, your time has 
value. Being more productive will enable you to do more. So IMHO the direct 
cost of RR is insignificant compared to the indirect cost in lower 
productivity of most other software development environments. 
Python/wxPython is the only other environment which I find approximates the 
productivity of RR (better for some things, not so good for others);  even 
it has a high cost when you include the learning time. (I suspect that your 
Applescript background will make your learning curve in RR shorter than 
your Python one).

>3. How does Rev compare specifically to other scripting languages,
>especially Tcl/Tk and Python/wxPython? I'm studying Tcl/Tk out of a
>slightly contrarian nature, as I know the GUI's that can be built with
>Tk are more limited; wxPython, by contrast, is very rich. Can anyone
>with experience with either of these development environments offer some
>insight about how they compare to Rev?

I'd skip Tcl/Tk - it's very limited compared to the other two, and just not 
fun.

Python/wxPython (and Pythoncard) has a lot of strengths compared to RR, and 
just about as many weaknesses :-)

RR can do almost anything - but it excels in some areas while it "can do" 
others. I see RR as particularly strong in text handling, imaging, sound, 
multimedia (other on the list might disagree because they are experienced 
in other tools in that area, where I'm not).

P/wxP is strong in text handling, simple graphics, Internet protocols. It 
has strong "traditional" data structuring features - which I think help to 
make programs in it maintainable.

wxP has a richer set of tools (e.g. wxGrid is about 3 generations better 
than RR's table control), but RR has unequalled ability to put them 
together to get what you want.

I have to say I'm an enthusiastic user of both, so I'm biased :-)


>I appreciate any advice anyone can give me!

Learn both. Use both. Choose which one to use for each project (based 
partly on how much you've learned about each). Do some projects in both 
(either in parallel, or by "porting" a completed one). Use the knowledge 
you gained in one to increase your skillset / toolset to make you more 
productive in both.

-- Alex Tweedly.


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Wed Aug 11 07:56:15 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 07:56:15 -0400
Subject: dBase lib
In-Reply-To: <14227880099.20040810201302@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <20040811115158.F177930AB4@mail.rtl.org>

I know that is one way to do it but I wanted native access (direct file
access) because of difficulties in setting up ODBC on client desktops and
the problems with mixed OS environments.

Thanks for your help. This may be the way that I have to go...

Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark Wieder
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:13 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: dBase lib

Dave-

Have you tried setting up an ODBC link to your dbf files?

--
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From nnoydb at excite.com  Wed Aug 11 09:10:21 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:10:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: the script - Further details examples.
Message-ID: <20040811131021.DBDDB39A2@xprdmailfe9.nwk.excite.com>


The editScript message is a after the fact process.  I need to munge the script prior to it being set. Since the script with my macros is not necessarily valid and may encounter several if a multitude of errors.  I was wondering if I could place a setProp/getProp handler in the front scripts to intercept the script upon storage and retrieval.  This would allow me to expand/collapse the code.  


setProp script aScript

	local tExpanded
        
        --
        --Munge script and expand macros
        --

        --
        --Now here is the real problem will the call to set the script
        --go to the appropriate object since this is a front script?
        --
        set the script to tExpanded

end script

getProp script
	
      local tCollapsed
      local tScript
	
      --
      --Now here is the real problem will the call to set the script
      --go to the appropriate object since this is a front script?
      --
      put the script into tScript

      --
      --Munge tScript into tCollapsed
      --
	
      return tCollapsed

end script

Kevin

-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Tue 08/10, Dan Shafer < revdan at danshafer.com > wrote:
From: Dan Shafer [mailto: revdan at danshafer.com]
To: nnoydb at excite.com
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:45:01 -0700
Subject: Re: the script

Might be possible. Check out using editScript message<br><br>on editScript theObject<br>  -- do some stuff to the script<br>  -- which usually means you put the script into a variable,<br>  -- munge the text in the variable<br>  -- and then set the script of the object to the variable<br>end editScript<br><br>On Aug 10, 2004, at 12:56 PM, K wrote:<br><br>><br>><br>> Actually, I would like to alter "the script" itself before validation  <br>> and it being saved to the object (stack, card or button).  Also modify  <br>> upon retreival.<br>><br>> Basically, I would like to use my own parse tree to validate the code  <br>> and produce a MACRO/Preprocessor for my code.<br>><br>> Kevin<br>><br>><br>> -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-<br>> Disclaimer:<br>><br>> Any resemblance between the above views and those of my<br>> employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely<br>> coincidental.<br>> Any resemblance between the above and my own views is  <br>> non-dete
 rministic.<br>><br>>  The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to  <br>> hold<br>> them<br>> is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of<br>> the reader<br>>  is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient.<br>> (A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the<br>> scope of this article.)<br>><br>><br>><br>>  --- On Tue 08/10, Dan Shafer < revdan at danshafer.com > wrote:<br>> From: Dan Shafer [mailto: revdan at danshafer.com]<br>> To: nnoydb at excite.com, use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:52:43 -0700<br>> Subject: Re: the script<br>><br>> Not clear what you mean here, Kevin. You don't "intercept" properties  <br>> <br>as such. Do you mean you want to override the script or are you  <br>> trying <br>to intercept the editScript message?<br>On Aug 10, 2004, at  <br>> 6:40 AM, K wrote:<br><br>><br>> Is there any way to intercept "the  <br>> script" ptoperty for all objects?<br>>
 <br>> Kevin<br>><br>><br>><br>>  <br>> -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-<br>>  <br>> Disclaimer:<br>><br>> Any resemblance between the above views and  <br>> those of my<br>> employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are  <br>> purely<br>> coincidental.<br>> Any resemblance between the above and  <br>> my own views is <br>> non-deterministic.<br>><br>>  The question of  <br>> the existence of views in the absence of anyone to <br>> hold<br>>  <br>> them<br>> is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the  <br>> existence of<br>> the reader<br>>  is left as an exercise for the  <br>> second god coefficient.<br>> (A discussion of non-orthogonal,  <br>> non-integral polytheism is beyond the<br>> scope of this  <br>> article.)<br>><br>><br>><br>>  <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Join Excite! -  <br>> http://www.excite.com<br>> The most personalized portal on the  <br>> Web!<br>> ____________________________________________
 ___<br>>  <br>> use-revolution mailing list<br>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>>  <br>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use- <br>> revolution<br>><br>><br>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>D <br>> an Shafer, Revolutionary<br>Author of  "Revolution: Software at the  <br>> Speed of Thought"<br>http://www.revolutionpros.com for more  <br>> info<br>Available at Runtime Revolution Store  <br>> (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)<br><br><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com<br>> The most personalized portal on the Web!<br>><br><br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From nnoydb at excite.com  Wed Aug 11 09:10:43 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:10:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: the script - Further details examples.
Message-ID: <20040811131043.DAE013970@xprdmailfe9.nwk.excite.com>


The editScript message is a after the fact process.  I need to munge the script prior to it being set. Since the script with my macros is not necessarily valid and may encounter several if a multitude of errors.  I was wondering if I could place a setProp/getProp handler in the front scripts to intercept the script upon storage and retrieval.  This would allow me to expand/collapse the code.  


setProp script aScript

	local tExpanded
        
        --
        --Munge script and expand macros
        --

        --
        --Now here is the real problem will the call to set the script
        --go to the appropriate object since this is a front script?
        --
        set the script to tExpanded

end script

getProp script
	
      local tCollapsed
      local tScript
	
      --
      --Now here is the real problem will the call to set the script
      --go to the appropriate object since this is a front script?
      --
      put the script into tScript

      --
      --Munge tScript into tCollapsed
      --
	
      return tCollapsed

end script

Kevin

-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Tue 08/10, Dan Shafer < revdan at danshafer.com > wrote:
From: Dan Shafer [mailto: revdan at danshafer.com]
To: nnoydb at excite.com
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:45:01 -0700
Subject: Re: the script

Might be possible. Check out using editScript message<br><br>on editScript theObject<br>  -- do some stuff to the script<br>  -- which usually means you put the script into a variable,<br>  -- munge the text in the variable<br>  -- and then set the script of the object to the variable<br>end editScript<br><br>On Aug 10, 2004, at 12:56 PM, K wrote:<br><br>><br>><br>> Actually, I would like to alter "the script" itself before validation  <br>> and it being saved to the object (stack, card or button).  Also modify  <br>> upon retreival.<br>><br>> Basically, I would like to use my own parse tree to validate the code  <br>> and produce a MACRO/Preprocessor for my code.<br>><br>> Kevin<br>><br>><br>> -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-<br>> Disclaimer:<br>><br>> Any resemblance between the above views and those of my<br>> employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely<br>> coincidental.<br>> Any resemblance between the above and my own views is  <br>> non-dete
 rministic.<br>><br>>  The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to  <br>> hold<br>> them<br>> is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of<br>> the reader<br>>  is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient.<br>> (A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the<br>> scope of this article.)<br>><br>><br>><br>>  --- On Tue 08/10, Dan Shafer < revdan at danshafer.com > wrote:<br>> From: Dan Shafer [mailto: revdan at danshafer.com]<br>> To: nnoydb at excite.com, use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:52:43 -0700<br>> Subject: Re: the script<br>><br>> Not clear what you mean here, Kevin. You don't "intercept" properties  <br>> <br>as such. Do you mean you want to override the script or are you  <br>> trying <br>to intercept the editScript message?<br>On Aug 10, 2004, at  <br>> 6:40 AM, K wrote:<br><br>><br>> Is there any way to intercept "the  <br>> script" ptoperty for all objects?<br>>
 <br>> Kevin<br>><br>><br>><br>>  <br>> -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-<br>>  <br>> Disclaimer:<br>><br>> Any resemblance between the above views and  <br>> those of my<br>> employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are  <br>> purely<br>> coincidental.<br>> Any resemblance between the above and  <br>> my own views is <br>> non-deterministic.<br>><br>>  The question of  <br>> the existence of views in the absence of anyone to <br>> hold<br>>  <br>> them<br>> is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the  <br>> existence of<br>> the reader<br>>  is left as an exercise for the  <br>> second god coefficient.<br>> (A discussion of non-orthogonal,  <br>> non-integral polytheism is beyond the<br>> scope of this  <br>> article.)<br>><br>><br>><br>>  <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Join Excite! -  <br>> http://www.excite.com<br>> The most personalized portal on the  <br>> Web!<br>> ____________________________________________
 ___<br>>  <br>> use-revolution mailing list<br>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>>  <br>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use- <br>> revolution<br>><br>><br>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>D <br>> an Shafer, Revolutionary<br>Author of  "Revolution: Software at the  <br>> Speed of Thought"<br>http://www.revolutionpros.com for more  <br>> info<br>Available at Runtime Revolution Store  <br>> (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)<br><br><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com<br>> The most personalized portal on the Web!<br>><br><br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Aug 11 09:17:08 2004
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:17:08 -0500
Subject: errorDialog Message question
In-Reply-To: <4119B60B.7010102@fourthworld.com>
References: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<4119B60B.7010102@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BF15F5DF-EB98-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>

RIchard,

Thanks for the info. I think I already understood backscripts. I did  
try changing the order of my backscripts. What I can't do is get my  
errorDialog handler to catch a message in my back script without  
removing revBackScript permanently.

I insert my backscript, then remove revBackScript, then insert  
revBackScript again, so that my backscript will come before  
revBackScript in the hierarchy. No dice. Doesn't seem to work. Nada.  
Try it and see.

1. Create a btn with an errorDialog handler
2. Insert its script into back
3. Remove revBackScript from back
4. Insert revBackScript into back
5. Create another button that causes an execution error
6. Click the error-producing button

Does your errorDialog handler get called? Mine doesn't.

I have tried other variations of this as well. Remove revBackScript,  
insert my backscript, and then re-insert revBackScript. Nada as well.

I'm already catching the compiling errors, but thanks for the heads-up.

Best,

Jerry


On Aug 11, 2004, at 1:00 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>> Gang,
>> I've been in the archives looking for others who may have had trouble  
>> with the errorDialog message.
>> While most of the posts dealt with the errorData this message  
>> delivers, my problem revolves around trapping this message with a  
>> handler in the IDE. I am developing a script editor and want to  
>> handle my own execution errors.
>> It seems the revBackScript is the only one getting any errorDialog  
>> messages in the Rev 2.2 IDE. If I lock error dialogs, then I get the  
>> message, but I can't put a lock error dialog statement in every  
>> handler, now can I? I've tried inserting a script in back like  
>> revBackScript, but it doesn't matter where I put it, I don't get  
>> errorDialog messages unless I remove revBackScript.
>> I know Richard has been mucking about with this rascal, maybe he  
>> knows the path to salvation?
>
> I put together an article on extending the Rev message path for just  
> such occassions:
> <http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/ 
> revolution_message_path.html>
>
> In reference to backscripts, I note there:
>
>    Scripts inserted first take precedence over scripts inserted later.
>
> So when you insert a backScript, it goes in bsck of any existing  
> backscripts.
>
> Fortunately, the opposite is true of the corollary to backscript:  
> frontScripts.
>
> With frontScripts, those inserted later are put in front.  So if you  
> insert a frontScript and the Rev IDE is already loaded, your script  
> can get system messages before the IDE gets them.
>
> Note that the errorDialog message will only address execution issues.  
> To trap for compilation issues you'll want to handle the  
> scriptParsingError message.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________
>  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Wed Aug 11 09:24:07 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:24:07 -0400
Subject: Mysterious gray color
In-Reply-To: <20040811102510.848239300EE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD3F9637.2482%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>


Thanks for that info. But I guess my real question is the WYSIWG dilemma.
The gray background is only visible when you print the card. So if the
system gray color is showing through why does it appear white when you look
at the card?

I have solved it by setting the stack background color to white but my gripe
is that he gray color is invisible except when printing and I think that is
a RUNREV fault which should be corrected.

Try it yourself with any stack. They appear to have a white background but
in the background color is set to clear it will print as light gray. If you
do a print preview it is very much evident on my monitor.


On 8/11/04 6:25 AM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>> This means that the gray background color is somehow in revolution itself as
>> it shows through when I tell the background of the stack to be clear and is
>> white when I tell the bg of the stack to be white.
> 
>  From the docs, under "backgroundColor": "On Mac OS, OS X, and Windows
> systems, if the backgroundColor of all objects in the object hierarchy
> is empty, the background color set by the system is used." Maybe this is
> what you are seeing.
> 
>> So there must be some
>> setting in RunRev like a preference where you can tell it that gray is not
>> an appropriate color? Or perhaps this is in the docs as a feature?
> 
> I don't think there's a way to change it currently via Preferences. Most
> people just set their stack's background color if they want something else.




From mdswindell at charter.net  Wed Aug 11 10:59:18 2004
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 07:59:18 -0700
Subject: Change answer dialog icon
Message-ID: <050632F5-EBA7-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>

How do I replace the answer dialog icon "R" with my own icon?

TIA
Mark


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 11 11:07:47 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:07:47 -0400
Subject: Change answer dialog icon
In-Reply-To: <050632F5-EBA7-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
References: <050632F5-EBA7-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
Message-ID: <3436F9B0-EBA8-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Look at gRevAppIcon and its cohort gRevSmallAppIcon in the Rev dox.  
That should give you the info you need.

M


On Aug 11, 2004, at 10:59 AM, Mark Swindell wrote:

> How do I replace the answer dialog icon "R" with my own icon?
>
> TIA
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mdswindell at charter.net  Wed Aug 11 11:14:56 2004
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:14:56 -0700
Subject: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <01d801c47d07$7da78470$0301a8c0@john>
References: <01d801c47d07$7da78470$0301a8c0@john>
Message-ID: <343FE540-EBA9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>

The "inventive user" person certainly describes myself, and anyone else 
I have recommended Revolution to.  I don't know many "real 
programmers," but those I do know work on low level programming 
specific to some feature that their employers tell them to make happen.

It would seem Revolution could really make a dent in education, as 
well, particularly in the instruction of basic programming skills and 
logic.  Being able to create an application, no matter how simple, is 
an incredibly empowering experience for the novice who is used to doing 
what the computer wants him/her to do, rather than having the computer 
do what you tell it to do.

Mark


On Aug 7, 2004, at 10:16 PM, Bob Warren wrote:

>> I reiterate what I said earlier today in this very interesting
>> discussion. I do not believe Rev has any serious chance of making
>> significant inroads into the professional development community on ANY
>> platform, and certainly not on Windows or (moreso?) on *nix. It will
>> always be a product aimed at hobbyist and inventive user class
>> developers who do not write code for a living but who have real
>> problems to solve at work or at home. That's a huge market, bigger, I
>> believe, than the programmer market. But it has to be located and
>> convinced.


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 11 11:27:16 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:27:16 -0400
Subject: Educational uses for Rev (was Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)
In-Reply-To: <343FE540-EBA9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
References: <01d801c47d07$7da78470$0301a8c0@john>
	<343FE540-EBA9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
Message-ID: <ED4DCA48-EBAA-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Not only in teaching programming but in designing custom educational 
courseware. Who wants the student to have ONLY simple multiple-guess 
questions to work with?

Life doesn't come with a series of four exclusive-or questions tattooed 
across it, so why give student this unrealistic view of the real world, 
when a little work in Rev will permit far more challenging 
interactivity?

M

On Aug 11, 2004, at 11:14 AM, Mark Swindell wrote:

> It would seem Revolution could really make a dent in education, as 
> well, particularly in the instruction of basic programming skills and 
> logic. 


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Aug 11 11:34:27 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:34:27 -0600
Subject: OS X Standalone (mis)behavior
Message-ID: <EE5E1F36-EBAB-11D8-88CF-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

I have had some bizarre problems running a standalone app created with 
Rev 2.2 on OS X. The app is created on my G5 running OSX 10.3.4 and 
then copied up to a file server (an Xserve running OS X Server 10.2). 
When I try to run it on my lab iMacs (also running 10.3), the launch is 
unsuccessful. The application icon "zooms" but never appears in the 
dock. At first I thought perhaps it was a permissions issue, so I 
changed permissions on the server to give ownership to the generic user 
that I use to log in to the file server. No luck. However, if I log in 
to the server from my lab machines using the administrator login, it 
launches normally.

Now here's where it gets weird:
I went back to my development station, the G5 and logged in to the file 
server as the lab user. The app launched and ran normally. But when I 
logged out and back in to the server as administrator, the app would 
not launch! In other words, the failure behavior was exactly opposite 
depending upon whether I logged in from my desktop G5 or one of my lab 
iMacs.

I was about to chalk this up to some weird permissions/ subnet thing 
(the labs are in a different subnet than my desktop machine), but then 
I dropped back to Rev 2.1.2 and re-compiled the standalone, copied it 
up to the server, and it works the way it's supposed to: Log in to 
server from anywhere using the lab user login and it works.

This makes me suspect the Standalone Builder in 2.2.1. A couple of 
other curious clues (though they may be red herrings):

- When I try to examine the Info.plist file in the application bundle 
created with 2.2.1 I am unable to open it with the Property List 
Editor. BBedit opens it but complains that 'The UTF-8 file "Info.plist" 
is damaged or incorrectly formed'. The Info.plist file from the app 
bundle created with 2.1.2 opens normally. (It's also not UTF-8 encoded. 
Significant?)

- In the 2.2.1-created app, no version information appears in Get Info 
or preview, even though I entered in the Standalone Settings before I 
built. In the 2.1.2-created app, I see version information as expected 
in Get Info and preview.

Any ideas? Maybe I'm doing something wrong when I am building the 
standalone under 2.2?

Thanks,
Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Aug 11 11:38:55 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:38:55 -0600
Subject: errorDialog Message question
In-Reply-To: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
References: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <8E31D014-EBAC-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 10, 2004, at 11:24 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> While most of the posts dealt with the errorData this message 
> delivers, my problem revolves around trapping this message with a 
> handler in the IDE. I am developing a script editor and want to handle 
> my own execution errors.

See also 'try'.

Dar Scott


From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Aug 11 11:48:18 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:48:18 -0400
Subject: OS X Standalone (mis)behavior
In-Reply-To: <EE5E1F36-EBAB-11D8-88CF-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <EE5E1F36-EBAB-11D8-88CF-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <DD463DB5-EBAD-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 11:34 AM, Devin Asay wrote:

> Any ideas? Maybe I'm doing something wrong when I am building the 
> standalone under 2.2?

I've seen the zooming-without-launching effect too. I have no idea if 
this has been identified and logged with bugzilla though.

FWIW, if I copied or moved the application locally, after bringing it 
from my server to my local drive, it seemed to work properly and 
consistently e.g. grab it from my 10.3 Server to a local folder, then 
move it from my local folder to my applications folder - it would 
launch every time.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Aug 11 11:55:05 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:55:05 -0600
Subject: wait with messages
In-Reply-To: <20040811125659.79BC73997@xprdmailfe9.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040811125659.79BC73997@xprdmailfe9.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <CFD2DD66-EBAE-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 6:56 AM, K wrote:

> Without polling what is the best way to wait (while messages continue 
> processing) for a viriable state to change?  Since wait with messages 
> is presenting several anomalies I cannot explain.

One way would be to use a custom command (hander) to set the variable.  
It can 'send ... in 0'.  A possible problem is that it might queue up 
several messages before execution completes and only one is needed.

Another way is to call a routine to check what needs to be done at the 
end of routines and it can do the sends.

Dar Scott




From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Wed Aug 11 12:11:31 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:11:31 +0200
Subject: OS X Standalone (mis)behavior
In-Reply-To: <EE5E1F36-EBAB-11D8-88CF-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <1BF82EA4-EBB1-11D8-A625-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>

I had similar problem (standalone won't launch and info.plist can't be 
opened) due to a special character in the "copyright notice" field, I 
think it was a &

Hope it helps.

Thierry.

On Wednesday, Aug 11, 2004, at 17:34 Europe/Paris, Devin Asay wrote:

> I have had some bizarre problems running a standalone app created with 
> Rev 2.2 on OS X. The app is created on my G5 running OSX 10.3.4 and 
> then copied up to a file server (an Xserve running OS X Server 10.2). 
> When I try to run it on my lab iMacs (also running 10.3), the launch 
> is unsuccessful. The application icon "zooms" but never appears in the 
> dock. At first I thought perhaps it was a permissions issue, so I 
> changed permissions on the server to give ownership to the generic 
> user that I use to log in to the file server. No luck. However, if I 
> log in to the server from my lab machines using the administrator 
> login, it launches normally.
>
> Now here's where it gets weird:
> I went back to my development station, the G5 and logged in to the 
> file server as the lab user. The app launched and ran normally. But 
> when I logged out and back in to the server as administrator, the app 
> would not launch! In other words, the failure behavior was exactly 
> opposite depending upon whether I logged in from my desktop G5 or one 
> of my lab iMacs.
>
> I was about to chalk this up to some weird permissions/ subnet thing 
> (the labs are in a different subnet than my desktop machine), but then 
> I dropped back to Rev 2.1.2 and re-compiled the standalone, copied it 
> up to the server, and it works the way it's supposed to: Log in to 
> server from anywhere using the lab user login and it works.
>
> This makes me suspect the Standalone Builder in 2.2.1. A couple of 
> other curious clues (though they may be red herrings):
>
> - When I try to examine the Info.plist file in the application bundle 
> created with 2.2.1 I am unable to open it with the Property List 
> Editor. BBedit opens it but complains that 'The UTF-8 file 
> "Info.plist" is damaged or incorrectly formed'. The Info.plist file 
> from the app bundle created with 2.1.2 opens normally. (It's also not 
> UTF-8 encoded. Significant?)
>
> - In the 2.2.1-created app, no version information appears in Get Info 
> or preview, even though I entered in the Standalone Settings before I 
> built. In the 2.1.2-created app, I see version information as expected 
> in Get Info and preview.
>
> Any ideas? Maybe I'm doing something wrong when I am building the 
> standalone under 2.2?
>
> Thanks,
> Devin
>
> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Aug 11 12:23:10 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:23:10 -0600
Subject: wait with messages
In-Reply-To: <20040810200649.055E1B6D6@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040810200649.055E1B6D6@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <BC997A6D-EBB2-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 10, 2004, at 2:06 PM, K wrote:

> I seems that when I execute a wait with messages for a specific 
> contition and another event execute a wait with messages on a 
> different condition the seconds wait cancels the first.

In other mail:

> Task aka event '1' is executing code but needs to wait for a variable 
> to be altered by a "send in time" task '2'.  Task '2' also realizes it 
> must wait on task '3' to alter a variable so it execute the wait with 
> messages also.  When task '2' executes this task '1' suddenly aborts 
> or returns from it's wait (even though '2' has not made any 
> modification to the variable.

This seems to work for me in Rev 2.2 on OS X 10.3.4.

I made this card script:
****************************************************************
local a
local b

on setA
   put true into a
   log "a is set"
end setA

on setB
   put true into b
   log "b is set"
end setB

on test
   put empty
   put false into a
   put false into b
   log "variables are cleared"
   log "before wait for a"
   wait until a with messages
   log "after wait for a"
   log "all done"
end test

on insideTest
   log "before wait for b"
   wait until b with messages
   log "after wait for b"
end insideTest

on log logText
   put the long time && quote & logText & quote after message
   put " a = " & a after message
   put "; b = " & b & lf after message
end log
*****************************************************************

I put on the card 4 buttons, one for each of commands setA, setB, test, 
and insideTest.  I labeled them such and had the mouseUp call the 
corresponding one.

On these button clicks in this order:  test, insideTest, setA, setB

...I get this result:

10:11:24 AM "variables are cleared" a = false; b = false
10:11:24 AM "before wait for a" a = false; b = false
10:11:25 AM "before wait for b" a = false; b = false
10:11:27 AM "a is set" a = true; b = false
10:11:29 AM "b is set" a = true; b = true
10:11:29 AM "after wait for b" a = true; b = true
10:11:29 AM "after wait for a" a = true; b = true
10:11:29 AM "all done" a = true; b = true

That looks right to me.  I tried some variations and those look right.  
Note that because of the nesting, the wait for a is blocked by the wait 
for b.  Looking at the time, you can see that once the setB button is 
clicked, everything wraps up.

Dar Scott



From kaj37 at mac.com  Wed Aug 11 12:28:38 2004
From: kaj37 at mac.com (Kaj Schwermer)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 01:28:38 +0900
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 49
In-Reply-To: <20040811160027.0CCE093010D@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040811160027.0CCE093010D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <80293E76-EBB3-11D8-B8A7-000A9598B088@mac.com>

Mark,

Thanks for the inspiration!  Speaking of novices and creating apps for 
the educational market.  I haven't seen the beginning of this thread 
and am a complete neophyte as far as programming goes, but am extremely 
interested in potential uses of Rev for the educational market.  I run 
a small chain of language schools here in Osaka, Japan and have been 
working in the language education field for nearly a decade here in 
this country, specializing in children's education. The English 
language education market is a multibillion dollar market in this 
country alone, but decent software (language teaching in Asia) is few 
and far between.  I would be very interested in hearing more about what 
you have to say about potential applications in this field.

Kaj Schwermer


> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:14:56 -0700
> From: Mark Swindell <mdswindell at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <343FE540-EBA9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> The "inventive user" person certainly describes myself, and anyone else
> I have recommended Revolution to.  I don't know many "real
> programmers," but those I do know work on low level programming
> specific to some feature that their employers tell them to make happen.
>
> It would seem Revolution could really make a dent in education, as
> well, particularly in the instruction of basic programming skills and
> logic.  Being able to create an application, no matter how simple, is
> an incredibly empowering experience for the novice who is used to doing
> what the computer wants him/her to do, rather than having the computer
> do what you tell it to do.
>
> Mark
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Aug 11 12:29:34 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:29:34 -0600
Subject: wait with messages
In-Reply-To: <CFD2DD66-EBAE-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <20040811125659.79BC73997@xprdmailfe9.nwk.excite.com>
	<CFD2DD66-EBAE-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <A118608E-EBB3-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 9:55 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

>> Without polling what is the best way to wait (while messages continue 
>> processing) for a viriable state to change?  Since wait with messages 
>> is presenting several anomalies I cannot explain.
>
> One way would be to use a custom command (hander) to set the variable. 
>  It can 'send ... in 0'.  A possible problem is that it might queue up 
> several messages before execution completes and only one is needed.
>
> Another way is to call a routine to check what needs to be done at the 
> end of routines and it can do the sends.

By the way, polling may not be so bad if you don't need a fast 
response.  Use a cycle like one of the flashers in the primer.  Maybe 
you can poll every 100 or 200 ms or even faster.  Look at the cpu meter 
if you are concerned.

In the case of something like a FIFO, you might give the fifo a message 
to send whenever it becomes empty and a message to send every time it 
become nonempty.  If you put a cycle in that to check the state and 
send the message, that is mostly a fallback and would not affect the 
normal performance.

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug 11 12:41:52 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:41:52 -0700
Subject: errorDialog Message question
In-Reply-To: <BF15F5DF-EB98-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
References: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<4119B60B.7010102@fourthworld.com>
	<BF15F5DF-EB98-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <411A4C50.3090708@fourthworld.com>

Jerry Daniels wrote:

> RIchard,
> 
> Thanks for the info. I think I already understood backscripts. I did  
> try changing the order of my backscripts. What I can't do is get my  
> errorDialog handler to catch a message in my back script without  
> removing revBackScript permanently.
> 
> I insert my backscript, then remove revBackScript, then insert  
> revBackScript again, so that my backscript will come before  
> revBackScript in the hierarchy. No dice. Doesn't seem to work. Nada.  
> Try it and see.
> 
> 1. Create a btn with an errorDialog handler
> 2. Insert its script into back
> 3. Remove revBackScript from back
> 4. Insert revBackScript into back
> 5. Create another button that causes an execution error
> 6. Click the error-producing button
> 
> Does your errorDialog handler get called? Mine doesn't.
> 
> I have tried other variations of this as well. Remove revBackScript,  
> insert my backscript, and then re-insert revBackScript. Nada as well.

I think I found the culprit:

The "Script Debug Mode" item in the Development menu is set by default 
in a new installation, and when set the message being sent is 
traceError, which is handled in revFrontScript.

Putting a traceError handler in a frontScript should address that, and 
determining if indeed the Script Debug Mode is being set without direct 
user action would be helpful.

What property does the "Script Debug Mode" menu item set, and why is it 
beneficial to ship with a default setting that's different from the 
engine default?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Aug 11 12:47:48 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:47:48 -0500
Subject: Callbacks on players on Windows
In-Reply-To: <20040810213427.B620A930068@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040810213427.B620A930068@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <411A4DB4.8070009@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/10/04 4:42 PM, cteno4 wrote:

> I have been setting callbacks on my players so that when the audio file 
> is done (wav files), i can hide the pause button. i found that i have had 
> to pull the end callback time to at least 10 ticks from the total 
> duration of the file when loaded into the player to get consisitant 
> callbacks sent. On the mac i can just set the callback to the duration of 
> the player and it works every time. even trimming 10 clicks off the 
> duration for the end callback on windows i get probably 1 in 25 that 
> never get called when the player plays to the end. the player is hidden.
> 
> any ideas of whats going on here?

I had various problems with messages from hidden players in one project. 
The solution was to set the visible of the player to true and move it 
offscreen. Does that help?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug 11 12:53:34 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:53:34 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev (was Re: Plea to sell Dan's book
	widely)
In-Reply-To: <ED4DCA48-EBAA-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <01d801c47d07$7da78470$0301a8c0@john>
	<343FE540-EBA9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
	<ED4DCA48-EBAA-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <411A4F0E.6000903@fourthworld.com>

Marian Petrides wrote:

> Not only in teaching programming but in designing custom educational 
> courseware. Who wants the student to have ONLY simple multiple-guess 
> questions to work with?
> 
> Life doesn't come with a series of four exclusive-or questions tattooed 
> across it, so why give student this unrealistic view of the real world, 
> when a little work in Rev will permit far more challenging interactivity?

Agreed wholeheartedly.  Education-related work was the largest single 
set of tasks folks did with HyperCard, and for all the tools that have 
come out since there remains an unaddressed gap which may be an ideal 
focus for DreamCard.

But moving beyond simple questions models like multiple choice is 
difficult.  The AICC courseware interoperability standard describes 
almost a dozen question models, but most are variants of "choose one", 
"choose many", "closest match", etc., sometimes enlived by using 
drag-and-drop as the mechanism for applying the answer but not 
substantially different from what gets tested with a simple multiple 
choice in terms of truer assessment of what's been learned.

The challenge is to find more open-ended question models which can still 
be assessed by the computer.  For example, the most open-ended question 
is an essay, but I sure don't want to write the routine that scores 
essays. :)

What sorts of enhanced question models do you think would be ideal for 
computer-based learning?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Aug 11 12:55:28 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:55:28 -0500
Subject: Mysterious gray color
In-Reply-To: <BD3F9637.2482%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD3F9637.2482%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <411A4F80.2010201@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/11/04 8:24 AM, Bill wrote:

> Thanks for that info. But I guess my real question is the WYSIWG dilemma.
> The gray background is only visible when you print the card. So if the
> system gray color is showing through why does it appear white when you look
> at the card?
> 
> I have solved it by setting the stack background color to white but my gripe
> is that he gray color is invisible except when printing and I think that is
> a RUNREV fault which should be corrected.

Maybe; it depends on how you are doing your printing. If you are using 
the pre-built Revolution printing commands ("revPrintText", etc.) then 
it could be a Rev problem. These Rev handlers create temporary stacks to 
produce the printout and may not be setting the background color 
correctly (I'd have to go check, I can't remember.) If you are creating 
your own printing stack, then you'll have to remember to set the 
background color on that before running a print job.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From revlist at cableone.net  Wed Aug 11 12:57:48 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:57:48 -0600
Subject: memory - why isn't it getting freed
In-Reply-To: <a06110413bd3f1088468a@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <001001c47fc4$5541a6e0$64fea8c0@chris1>

Thanks, Robert.  I was able to make a called to Valentina("Shutdown"), and
that will at least clear my cache. Then I'm able to reinitialize the
Valentina kernel after that.

Strange behavior going on here, but at least there's a workaround, for which
I'm very grateful.  I was having much stress over this one. :-)

Thanks again,

Chris Sheffield
Software Developer
Read Naturally


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Robert Brenstein
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:56 PM
> To: jacque at hyperactivesw.com; How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: memory - why isn't it getting freed
> 
> On 8/9/04 9:00 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote:
> 
> >Can anyone tell me the reasons for memory not getting freed up like it
> >should?
> >
> >I have an application that consists of a login stack, another main stack
> >where most of the program functionality occurs, and then several other
> >external stacks (stored as compressed data in a Valentina database) that
> >contain multimedia content such as graphics, audio files, text, etc.
> These
> >stacks get extracted from the database, decompressed, and then accessed
> to
> >retrieve that content.  The problem is, when I'm done with these external
> >stacks, I use the delete stack command, which should remove them from
> >memory, but it doesn't.  I have checked every function I can think of
> >(revLoadedStacks, openStacks, stacksInUse, etc.) to see if Rev thinks
> these
> >stacks are still open in some way, but that is not the case.  The memory
> >just doesn't get freed.  It doesn't return to normal until I completely
> exit
> >my application.  This is not a good thing because used memory keeps
> building
> >up and up, until eventually the application crashes because the system
> has
> >run out of memory.
> >
> >This is a serious problem, and I'm not sure if it's something I'm doing
> >wrong, or if I've discovered some bug in Rev.  So what I'm wondering is,
> >what would cause memory to not get freed the way it should?  Files that
> the
> >stacks might have open perhaps?  But if that were the case, why would the
> >stack not appear when using one of the above functions?  Anything else?
> 
> I suspect that at least some of the non-freed memory is coming from
> Valentina caching. When you extract your stacks, the extracted
> content is cached by valentina before being passed to Rev.
> 
> Robert Brenstein
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004
> 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004
 


From mdswindell at charter.net  Wed Aug 11 13:14:07 2004
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:14:07 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev (was Re: Plea to sell Dan's book
	widely)
In-Reply-To: <411A4F0E.6000903@fourthworld.com>
References: <01d801c47d07$7da78470$0301a8c0@john>
	<343FE540-EBA9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
	<ED4DCA48-EBAA-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<411A4F0E.6000903@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <DA4D2F59-EBB9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>

It would seem courseware in this context implies primarily evaluation, 
not teaching/learning.  Students would need to have control of the 
reins in Revolution to create content that would show learning had 
occurred.  But then you have the PowerPoint multimedia slide show model 
as a result, most likely.

But on the testing end of things, perhaps the models provided by the 
AICC are the best easy models available.  Expository writing, 
interviewing is the only real way I know of to test the depth of 
retention and comprehension of what a student has learned.

Perhaps an answer is to create the tools by which the student must 
create the test themselves, rather than take it, using the models you 
cite.  Then you will be assured they have at least known that material 
long enough to create it, and in contradiction to the wrong answers 
they provide, which should provide a context that would imply some real 
comprehension.  How to evaluate this would pose another problem.

Mark

On Aug 11, 2004, at 9:53 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> Not only in teaching programming but in designing custom educational 
>> courseware. Who wants the student to have ONLY simple multiple-guess 
>> questions to work with?
>> Life doesn't come with a series of four exclusive-or questions 
>> tattooed across it, so why give student this unrealistic view of the 
>> real world, when a little work in Rev will permit far more 
>> challenging interactivity?
>
> Agreed wholeheartedly.  Education-related work was the largest single 
> set of tasks folks did with HyperCard, and for all the tools that have 
> come out since there remains an unaddressed gap which may be an ideal 
> focus for DreamCard.
>
> But moving beyond simple questions models like multiple choice is 
> difficult.  The AICC courseware interoperability standard describes 
> almost a dozen question models, but most are variants of "choose one", 
> "choose many", "closest match", etc., sometimes enlived by using 
> drag-and-drop as the mechanism for applying the answer but not 
> substantially different from what gets tested with a simple multiple 
> choice in terms of truer assessment of what's been learned.
>
> The challenge is to find more open-ended question models which can 
> still be assessed by the computer.  For example, the most open-ended 
> question is an essay, but I sure don't want to write the routine that 
> scores essays. :)
>
> What sorts of enhanced question models do you think would be ideal for 
> computer-based learning?
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From nnoydb at excite.com  Wed Aug 11 13:24:00 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:24:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: wait with messages
Message-ID: <20040811172400.7B8701BCC1@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>



Thanks, I do believe now that my code is not working in the correct manner.  Honestly, I would prefer it worked like the VB event system were you could just doEvents to yeild the tasker/system (KISS).

I will rewrite the offending routines!


Kevin




-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Wed 08/11, Dar Scott < dsc at swcp.com > wrote:
From: Dar Scott [mailto: dsc at swcp.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:29:34 -0600
Subject: Re: wait with messages

<br>On Aug 11, 2004, at 9:55 AM, Dar Scott wrote:<br><br>>> Without polling what is the best way to wait (while messages continue <br>>> processing) for a viriable state to change?  Since wait with messages <br>>> is presenting several anomalies I cannot explain.<br>><br>> One way would be to use a custom command (hander) to set the variable. <br>>  It can 'send ... in 0'.  A possible problem is that it might queue up <br>> several messages before execution completes and only one is needed.<br>><br>> Another way is to call a routine to check what needs to be done at the <br>> end of routines and it can do the sends.<br><br>By the way, polling may not be so bad if you don't need a fast <br>response.  Use a cycle like one of the flashers in the primer.  Maybe <br>you can poll every 100 or 200 ms or even faster.  Look at the cpu meter <br>if you are concerned.<br><br>In the case of something like a FIFO, you might give the fifo a message <br>to send whenever it becomes empty and a message to send every time it <br>become nonempty.  If you put a cycle in that to check the state and <br>send the message, that is mostly a fallback and would not affect the <br>normal performance.<br><br>Dar Scott<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From briany at qldlearning.com  Wed Aug 11 13:24:30 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:24:30 -0400
Subject: memory - why isn't it getting freed
In-Reply-To: <001001c47fc4$5541a6e0$64fea8c0@chris1>
Message-ID: <4DD1604F-EBBB-11D8-8353-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Chris,

Also probably worth noting- with Valentina you can control the size of 
the cache, so if your data is small and you want to conserve memory, 
you can always make the cache smaller. Otherwise, shutting down the 
database is actually a pretty normal way to dispose of a cache- most 
databases want to keep the cache big and persistent to increase 
performance and so releasing the cache is actually one of the primary 
purposes of a shutdown method (other than closing connections to 
database files).

FWIW.

> Thanks, Robert.  I was able to make a called to Valentina("Shutdown"), 
> and
> that will at least clear my cache. Then I'm able to reinitialize the
> Valentina kernel after that.
>
> Strange behavior going on here, but at least there's a workaround, for 
> which
> I'm very grateful.  I was having much stress over this one. :-)
-------------------------------------
Brian Yennie
Chief Technology Officer
QLD Learning, LLC
(941)-928-7127
briany at qldlearning.com
--------------------------------------


From briany at qldlearning.com  Wed Aug 11 13:26:35 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:26:35 -0400
Subject: memory - why isn't it getting freed
In-Reply-To: <001001c47fc4$5541a6e0$64fea8c0@chris1>
Message-ID: <987D298C-EBBB-11D8-8353-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

On other thought- you may be able to close database files and reopen 
them instead of shutting down entirely and/or call "FlushDatabase" to 
write things to disk... (not sure of the exact method name, but the 
flush method...)

> Thanks, Robert.  I was able to make a called to Valentina("Shutdown"), 
> and
> that will at least clear my cache. Then I'm able to reinitialize the
> Valentina kernel after that.
>
> Strange behavior going on here, but at least there's a workaround, for 
> which
> I'm very grateful.  I was having much stress over this one. :-)
>
-------------------------------------
Brian Yennie
Chief Technology Officer
QLD Learning, LLC
(941)-928-7127
briany at qldlearning.com
--------------------------------------


From nnoydb at excite.com  Wed Aug 11 13:34:40 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:34:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: the script - The ugly details of what I am trying to do.
Message-ID: <20040811173440.129661BCA1@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>



The editScript message is a after the fact process. I need to munge the script prior to it being set. Since the script with my macros is not necessarily valid and may encounter several if a multitude of errors. I was wondering if I could place a setProp/getProp handler in the front scripts to intercept the script upon storage and retrieval. This would allow me to expand/collapse the code.

Parser Expand and Callopse are a implementation of the GOLD parser with
whatever syntax table you would like to use.


function parserExpand aScript

--
--Do Something
--

return tExpanded

end parserExpand

function parserCollapse aScript

--
--Do Something
--

return tCallapsed

end parserCollapse

setProp script aScript
--
--Now here is the real problem will the call to set the script
--go to the appropriate object since this is a front script?
--
set the script to parserExpand( aScript )

end script

getProp script
     

--
--Now here is the real problem will the call to set the script
--go to the appropriate object since this is a front script?
--
put the script into tScript

return parserCollapse( tScript ) 

end script

Kevin


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From mvreade at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 10 13:21:38 2004
From: mvreade at earthlink.net (Michael Reade)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:21:38 -0400
Subject: now it's SQLite (was... Re: Newcomer)
In-Reply-To: <0BD0E153-792A-11D8-AA21-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BD3E7C62.53BC%mvreade@earthlink.net>

Andr?,

I'd like to have a conversation with you, about us possibly teaming up.
Posso te ligar? 

Michael

on 3/18/04 5:17 PM, Andre Garzia at soapdog at mac.com wrote:

> 
> On Mar 18, 2004, at 7:08 PM, Michael Reade wrote:
> 
>> So I guess the short of it is that if you are going to embed a db,
>> SQLite is
>> the way to go, and if you are serving it to multiple users, MySQL is
>> the way
>> to go.
>> 
> 
> Thats what I think, here people might have other opinions. For serving
> multiple-users, across network connection there's MySQL and
> PostgreeSQL.
> For single user there are many ways, besides valentina and SQLite.
> 
> 1) You can just use plain transcript and save to a stack.
> 
> 2) You can use XML as information storage facility. Or even plain text.
> 
> 3) You can check serendipty library, which is very good in 100%
> transcript code, it doesn't support SQL statements, but if you don't
> need them, it's a way to go.
> <http://www.oenolog.net/ftp/serendipity_downloader.htm>. And serendipty
> is also networkable, comes with server/client architecture.
> 
> As soon as I get the grip of XML in Revolution,  I'll write a .plist
> lib.
> 
> Cheers
> Andre
> 
> 
> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Michael
>> 


From mvreade at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 10 13:25:55 2004
From: mvreade at earthlink.net (Michael Reade)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:25:55 -0400
Subject: now it's SQLite (was... Re: Newcomer)
In-Reply-To: <0BD0E153-792A-11D8-AA21-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BD3E7D63.53C0%mvreade@earthlink.net>


Sorry, please disregard. My mistake.



on 3/18/04 5:17 PM, Andre Garzia at soapdog at mac.com wrote:

> 
> On Mar 18, 2004, at 7:08 PM, Michael Reade wrote:
> 
>> So I guess the short of it is that if you are going to embed a db,
>> SQLite is
>> the way to go, and if you are serving it to multiple users, MySQL is
>> the way
>> to go.
>> 
> 
> Thats what I think, here people might have other opinions. For serving
> multiple-users, across network connection there's MySQL and
> PostgreeSQL.
> For single user there are many ways, besides valentina and SQLite.
> 
> 1) You can just use plain transcript and save to a stack.
> 
> 2) You can use XML as information storage facility. Or even plain text.
> 
> 3) You can check serendipty library, which is very good in 100%
> transcript code, it doesn't support SQL statements, but if you don't
> need them, it's a way to go.
> <http://www.oenolog.net/ftp/serendipity_downloader.htm>. And serendipty
> is also networkable, comes with server/client architecture.
> 
> As soon as I get the grip of XML in Revolution,  I'll write a .plist
> lib.
> 
> Cheers
> Andre
> 
> 
> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Michael
>> 


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Aug 11 13:58:10 2004
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:58:10 -0500
Subject: errorDialog Message question
In-Reply-To: <411A4C50.3090708@fourthworld.com>
References: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<4119B60B.7010102@fourthworld.com>
	<BF15F5DF-EB98-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<411A4C50.3090708@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <01A4CF11-EBC0-11D8-94C9-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>

Richard,

YOU are the man.

That worked like a charm.

Your closing question is a good one. Why, indeed?

-JD

On Aug 11, 2004, at 11:41 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>> RIchard,
>> Thanks for the info. I think I already understood backscripts. I did  
>> try changing the order of my backscripts. What I can't do is get my  
>> errorDialog handler to catch a message in my back script without  
>> removing revBackScript permanently.
>> I insert my backscript, then remove revBackScript, then insert  
>> revBackScript again, so that my backscript will come before  
>> revBackScript in the hierarchy. No dice. Doesn't seem to work. Nada.  
>> Try it and see.
>> 1. Create a btn with an errorDialog handler
>> 2. Insert its script into back
>> 3. Remove revBackScript from back
>> 4. Insert revBackScript into back
>> 5. Create another button that causes an execution error
>> 6. Click the error-producing button
>> Does your errorDialog handler get called? Mine doesn't.
>> I have tried other variations of this as well. Remove revBackScript,  
>> insert my backscript, and then re-insert revBackScript. Nada as well.
>
> I think I found the culprit:
>
> The "Script Debug Mode" item in the Development menu is set by default 
> in a new installation, and when set the message being sent is 
> traceError, which is handled in revFrontScript.
>
> Putting a traceError handler in a frontScript should address that, and 
> determining if indeed the Script Debug Mode is being set without 
> direct user action would be helpful.
>
> What property does the "Script Debug Mode" menu item set, and why is 
> it beneficial to ship with a default setting that's different from the 
> engine default?
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Aug 11 14:01:33 2004
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:01:33 -0500
Subject: errorDialog Message question
In-Reply-To: <8E31D014-EBAC-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<8E31D014-EBAC-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <7AEADAD2-EBC0-11D8-94C9-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>

Thanks, Dar, but I am looking for an IDE-wide solution for a script 
editor I'm writing and I need to do my own execution error dialogs. 
Don't think "try" will do the trick other than in a handler where I use 
it. Maybe there's more to your comment and I don't understand it, 
though. Let me know if I'm missing the point.

Richard came up with the solution to my dilemma: the debug mode was 
turned on and this must route the error dialog message somehow 
circumventing the hierarchy.

Best,

Jerry

On Aug 11, 2004, at 10:38 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Aug 10, 2004, at 11:24 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>> While most of the posts dealt with the errorData this message 
>> delivers, my problem revolves around trapping this message with a 
>> handler in the IDE. I am developing a script editor and want to 
>> handle my own execution errors.
>
> See also 'try'.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Aug 11 14:16:55 2004
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:16:55 -0500
Subject: errorDialog Message question
In-Reply-To: <411A4C50.3090708@fourthworld.com>
References: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<4119B60B.7010102@fourthworld.com>
	<BF15F5DF-EB98-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<411A4C50.3090708@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <A0614F3C-EBC2-11D8-94C9-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>

Forgot to answer question: I had the script debug mode ON. When it's 
off, the error msg works fine. I'll try putting a traceError msg up 
front.

THanks, again.

JD

On Aug 11, 2004, at 11:41 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>> RIchard,
>> Thanks for the info. I think I already understood backscripts. I did  
>> try changing the order of my backscripts. What I can't do is get my  
>> errorDialog handler to catch a message in my back script without  
>> removing revBackScript permanently.
>> I insert my backscript, then remove revBackScript, then insert  
>> revBackScript again, so that my backscript will come before  
>> revBackScript in the hierarchy. No dice. Doesn't seem to work. Nada.  
>> Try it and see.
>> 1. Create a btn with an errorDialog handler
>> 2. Insert its script into back
>> 3. Remove revBackScript from back
>> 4. Insert revBackScript into back
>> 5. Create another button that causes an execution error
>> 6. Click the error-producing button
>> Does your errorDialog handler get called? Mine doesn't.
>> I have tried other variations of this as well. Remove revBackScript,  
>> insert my backscript, and then re-insert revBackScript. Nada as well.
>
> I think I found the culprit:
>
> The "Script Debug Mode" item in the Development menu is set by default 
> in a new installation, and when set the message being sent is 
> traceError, which is handled in revFrontScript.
>
> Putting a traceError handler in a frontScript should address that, and 
> determining if indeed the Script Debug Mode is being set without 
> direct user action would be helpful.
>
> What property does the "Script Debug Mode" menu item set, and why is 
> it beneficial to ship with a default setting that's different from the 
> engine default?
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Aug 11 14:46:12 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:46:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Educational uses for Rev (was Re: Plea to sell Dan's book
	widely)
In-Reply-To: <411A4F0E.6000903@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408111145370.19133-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Indeed!

Perhaps another educational use of Rev-based products would be exploratory
learning... then assessed, perhaps, by the dreaded m/c questions

Judy

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Marian Petrides wrote:
>
> > Not only in teaching programming but in designing custom educational
> > courseware. Who wants the student to have ONLY simple multiple-guess
> > questions to work with?
> >
> > Life doesn't come with a series of four exclusive-or questions tattooed
> > across it, so why give student this unrealistic view of the real world,
> > when a little work in Rev will permit far more challenging interactivity?
>
> Agreed wholeheartedly.  Education-related work was the largest single
> set of tasks folks did with HyperCard, and for all the tools that have
> come out since there remains an unaddressed gap which may be an ideal
> focus for DreamCard.
>
> But moving beyond simple questions models like multiple choice is
> difficult.  The AICC courseware interoperability standard describes
> almost a dozen question models, but most are variants of "choose one",
> "choose many", "closest match", etc., sometimes enlived by using
> drag-and-drop as the mechanism for applying the answer but not
> substantially different from what gets tested with a simple multiple
> choice in terms of truer assessment of what's been learned.
>
> The challenge is to find more open-ended question models which can still
> be assessed by the computer.  For example, the most open-ended question
> is an essay, but I sure don't want to write the routine that scores
> essays. :)
>
> What sorts of enhanced question models do you think would be ideal for
> computer-based learning?
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   ___________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 11 14:49:13 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:49:13 -0400
Subject: Educational uses for Rev (was Re: Plea to sell Dan's book
	widely)
In-Reply-To: <411A4F0E.6000903@fourthworld.com>
References: <01d801c47d07$7da78470$0301a8c0@john>
	<343FE540-EBA9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
	<ED4DCA48-EBAA-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<411A4F0E.6000903@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <23D59542-EBC7-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

One thing I make extensive use of is check boxes.  This allows you to 
ask relatively open-ended fact questions.  For example, present a 
clinical vignette and ask  "out of this list of 9 diagnoses which could 
cause this clinical picture (ie what is your differential diagnosis at 
this point)"; student needs to get all correct diagnoses and no 
incorrect diagnoses.

If you are programming the parser yourself, you can even set up 
"permissive" rules. Using the above example, say 4 of the responses are 
the ones sought after, but there are 2 others that might be viewed as 
correct in certain circumstances.  You could then allow all of the 
following to proceed to the card for "correct answer":  correct 4, 
(correct 4 + one other), (correct 4 +  the other possibly correct), 
(correct 4 + both others). The answer card then tells the student what 
the sought after answer was and why, then explains the "permissive" 
answers.

The other thing which can be done is to simulate real-world tasks.  
I've put together a module that simulates the way a bench tech goes 
about interpreting an antibody identification panel. The programming 
for this was actually quite easy.  What was difficult was figuring out 
the graphical display--once I created the graphics for a hardcopy book 
I wrote, the programming solution made itself apparent.

For those who are curious, I'll describe what I did (ignore if you 
like).   If you envision a grid consisting of 10 rows and 25 columns, 
the first step the student needs to do is to highlight the correct rows 
(on-off toggle using unhighlighted graphic vs highlighted one (both 
created in Photoshop). Then the student needs to toggle one of the 
following 3 (no image, slash, or X) at the top of each column.  
Eventually, the parser needs to see whether the correct rows are 
highlighted and whether the correct mark appears at the top of each 
column. Again, there are "permissive" rules covering circumstances in 
which both a slash or an X could be correct.

M

On Aug 11, 2004, at 12:53 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> What sorts of enhanced question models do you think would be ideal for 
> computer-based learning?


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 11 14:54:07 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:54:07 -0400
Subject: Mysterious gray color
In-Reply-To: <411A4F80.2010201@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <BD3F9637.2482%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
	<411A4F80.2010201@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <D2CC5DF6-EBC7-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

FWIW, I can confirm for Bill that the problem as described occurs when 
one chooses the Print command in the IDE.

M
On Aug 11, 2004, at 12:55 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 8/11/04 8:24 AM, Bill wrote:
>
>> Thanks for that info. But I guess my real question is the WYSIWG 
>> dilemma.
>> The gray background is only visible when you print the card. So if the
>> system gray color is showing through why does it appear white when 
>> you look
>> at the card?
>> I have solved it by setting the stack background color to white but 
>> my gripe
>> is that he gray color is invisible except when printing and I think 
>> that is
>> a RUNREV fault which should be corrected.
>
> Maybe; it depends on how you are doing your printing. If you are using 
> the pre-built Revolution printing commands ("revPrintText", etc.) then 
> it could be a Rev problem. These Rev handlers create temporary stacks 
> to produce the printout and may not be setting the background color 
> correctly (I'd have to go check, I can't remember.) If you are 
> creating your own printing stack, then you'll have to remember to set 
> the background color on that before running a print job.


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 11 15:03:05 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:03:05 -0400
Subject: Educational uses for Rev 
In-Reply-To: <DA4D2F59-EBB9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
References: <01d801c47d07$7da78470$0301a8c0@john>
	<343FE540-EBA9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
	<ED4DCA48-EBAA-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<411A4F0E.6000903@fourthworld.com>
	<DA4D2F59-EBB9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
Message-ID: <133B2FCF-EBC9-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Actually, I am talking about self-paced instruction (see my earlier 
reply), in which the student is presented with a question, has to 
commit to an answer, the answer is parsed, and the student given 
feedback on the answer.

Frankly, while it would not be hard to "score" responses in this 
setting, I have resisted doing so because then the goal becomes to get 
the best "score," not to learn the material. Since what I do is medical 
education, there is a mix of science (fact) and art (clinical judgment) 
involved in answering the questions--see my comment on "permissive" 
answers in my earlier post. Giving a numeric score penalizes the 
student who thinks outside the box. And, because the ultimate goal of 
medical education is to teach students how to "think like a doctor" NOT 
how to memorize these 10 million factoids, creative thinking should not 
be penalized--or even appear to be.

M


On Aug 11, 2004, at 1:14 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:

> It would seem courseware in this context implies primarily evaluation, 
> not teaching/learning.  Students would need to have control of the 
> reins in Revolution to create content that would show learning had 
> occurred. 


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Aug 11 15:09:56 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:09:56 -0600
Subject: errorDialog Message question
In-Reply-To: <7AEADAD2-EBC0-11D8-94C9-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
References: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<8E31D014-EBAC-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<7AEADAD2-EBC0-11D8-94C9-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <085B3EF5-EBCA-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 12:01 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Thanks, Dar, but I am looking for an IDE-wide solution for a script 
> editor I'm writing and I need to do my own execution error dialogs. 
> Don't think "try" will do the trick other than in a handler where I 
> use it. Maybe there's more to your comment and I don't understand it, 
> though. Let me know if I'm missing the point.

What you have is probably what you want, but I should probably clarify 
something.

The 'try' works for all execution with its scope, not just in the same 
handler.  That is, it applies to called functions and commands.  Maybe 
that is what you meant by "in a handler", but I thought I'd mention 
this.

I don't have my 'throw' schema integrated with what Revolution throws, 
so I use 'try'.  Also, there is some interesting behavior in making 
sure you get the right errorDialog.

Dar Scott


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Wed Aug 11 15:22:39 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:22:39 -0400
Subject: PostgreSQL 8 beta avail.
Message-ID: <20040811191820.A6BDA30AB4@mail.rtl.org>

FYI The beta version of PostgreSQL 8.0 is available. The Windows installer
went without a hitch and it comes with a Windows admin utility. I'll be
trying it out with Rev over the next couple of days...
 
Dave

From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Aug 11 15:30:32 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:30:32 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Kevin....

I concur heartily with all that Alex said about RR and Python. I would 
add only two more thoughts.

First, until PythonCard (an  OpenSource project to which I have been an 
on-and-off contributor and whose founder is a good friend) is mature, 
there really isn't a good direct-manipulation graphical IDE for Python. 
This makes building apps far too time-consuming if they need 
sophisticated cross-platform UIs, as all apps I build require. My guess 
is that PythonCard is at best a year from ready for prime time.

Second, as a programming language Python is unexcelled. If I could use 
RunRev to create the UI and Python as a scripting language, I'd be in 
hog heaven. As much as I love Transcript -- and I really do -- Python 
runs circles around it linguistically FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME who is 
steeped in object-oriented design, analysis, programming, and thought. 
Please don't take that to mean I think Python is purely and always 
better than Transcript. As I said, I love Transcript.

As an aside, I've been thinking for some time in sort of deep 
background mode about figuring out how to make RunRev UIs into a 
graphical layer that calls Python scripts so I could have the best of 
both worlds. I'm not yet steeped enough in how that would work beyond 
some very simple ability to execute a Python script via the shell() 
function, but it remains one of those projects I hope I get to someday 
but would be delighted if someone beat me to doing!


On Aug 11, 2004, at 3:36 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

>
>> 3. How does Rev compare specifically to other scripting languages,
>> especially Tcl/Tk and Python/wxPython? I'm studying Tcl/Tk out of a
>> slightly contrarian nature, as I know the GUI's that can be built with
>> Tk are more limited; wxPython, by contrast, is very rich. Can anyone
>> with experience with either of these development environments offer 
>> some
>> insight about how they compare to Rev?
>
> I'd skip Tcl/Tk - it's very limited compared to the other two, and 
> just not fun.
>
> Python/wxPython (and Pythoncard) has a lot of strengths compared to 
> RR, and just about as many weaknesses :-)
>
> RR can do almost anything - but it excels in some areas while it "can 
> do" others. I see RR as particularly strong in text handling, imaging, 
> sound, multimedia (other on the list might disagree because they are 
> experienced in other tools in that area, where I'm not).
>
> P/wxP is strong in text handling, simple graphics, Internet protocols. 
> It has strong "traditional" data structuring features - which I think 
> help to make programs in it maintainable.
>
> wxP has a richer set of tools (e.g. wxGrid is about 3 generations 
> better than RR's table control), but RR has unequalled ability to put 
> them together to get what you want.
>
> I have to say I'm an enthusiastic user of both, so I'm biased :-)
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From tuviah at runrev.com  Wed Aug 11 15:34:28 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:34:28 -0400
Subject: SQLite testing
References: <20040811175544.EE735930136@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c47fda$38247d10$1602a8c0@athlon>

Hello, I'm currently nearing completion of my SQLite revdb driver for Unix
(all), Windows, Mac (OSX/PPC). If your interested in testing this subscribe
to

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dbsqlitelist/

or contact me offlist for an invite.

Best,
Tuviah


From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Wed Aug 11 15:34:59 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:34:59 +0100
Subject: sound in revolution
References: <20040808160007.5033B930105@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <002201c47fda$4a5b1de0$5602a8c0@athalon>

Hi Judy, Klaus,

After carefully reading your post Klaus, I have now (embarrassingly) cracked
my problem of playing WAVs without QT.
I hadn't fully appreciated the difference between the PLAY and PLAYER
'objects'. I mistakenly thought that PLAY was simply similar to PLAYER but
with data stored rather than a filename reference.
Not so it seems. You are absolutely right that 'Play Audio Clip' does indeed
play WAVs fine on Windows. One has to script the player bit, but at least it
all plays.

I also had this response in a Bugzilla but hadn't appreciate the
significance at the time.
Must learn to read the docs more carefully :-)

Thanks for this. Helps a lot.

Cheers
Steve


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Aug 11 15:38:24 2004
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:38:24 -0500
Subject: errorDialog Message question
In-Reply-To: <085B3EF5-EBCA-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<8E31D014-EBAC-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<7AEADAD2-EBC0-11D8-94C9-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<085B3EF5-EBCA-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <02785003-EBCE-11D8-94C9-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>

Dar,

I read the archives on the errorDialog and have looked at the 
traceErrror and errorDialog code in Rev.

How would "try" work so that all statements in the IDE are going 
through it? Sounds very interesting.

-JD

On Aug 11, 2004, at 2:09 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Aug 11, 2004, at 12:01 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Dar, but I am looking for an IDE-wide solution for a script 
>> editor I'm writing and I need to do my own execution error dialogs. 
>> Don't think "try" will do the trick other than in a handler where I 
>> use it. Maybe there's more to your comment and I don't understand it, 
>> though. Let me know if I'm missing the point.
>
> What you have is probably what you want, but I should probably clarify 
> something.
>
> The 'try' works for all execution with its scope, not just in the same 
> handler.  That is, it applies to called functions and commands.  Maybe 
> that is what you meant by "in a handler", but I thought I'd mention 
> this.
>
> I don't have my 'throw' schema integrated with what Revolution throws, 
> so I use 'try'.  Also, there is some interesting behavior in making 
> sure you get the right errorDialog.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Aug 11 15:39:17 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:39:17 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 3:30 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I concur heartily with all that Alex said about RR and Python.

Really? You consider Rev particularly strong in Imaging and Multimedia 
too?

I've been biting my tongue on that one.

String handling, yes, network and internet, yes, file system, yes... 
but Imaging and Multimedia? Or were you excepting that from the "all 
that was said"?
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Aug 11 15:53:35 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:53:35 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <218607AC-EBD0-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Sorry, Troy, for the confusion.

I was talking only about the conclusion that Python and Rev are both 
great products with their individual strengths.

I don't have nearly enough experience or expertise to address RR's 
capabilities in imaging and multimedia. But I do have the sense from 
Chipp Walters, who does have such background, that RR is pretty strong 
on those points. I suspect he'll chime in any minute.

On Aug 11, 2004, at 12:39 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 11, 2004, at 3:30 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> I concur heartily with all that Alex said about RR and Python.
>
> Really? You consider Rev particularly strong in Imaging and Multimedia 
> too?
>
> I've been biting my tongue on that one.
>
> String handling, yes, network and internet, yes, file system, yes... 
> but Imaging and Multimedia? Or were you excepting that from the "all 
> that was said"?
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Aug 11 15:58:42 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:58:42 -0600
Subject: errorDialog Message question
In-Reply-To: <02785003-EBCE-11D8-94C9-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
References: <C51D8514-EB56-11D8-B9A5-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<8E31D014-EBAC-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<7AEADAD2-EBC0-11D8-94C9-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<085B3EF5-EBCA-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<02785003-EBCE-11D8-94C9-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <D84A095A-EBD0-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 1:38 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> How would "try" work so that all statements in the IDE are going 
> through it? Sounds very interesting.

I'm still not explaining this well.

The problem with 'try' it that it would need to be in all handlers for 
events if you want to catch all errors.  The errorDialog approaches 
would be better for getting all errors.

Example:

on mouseUp
     try
        doButtonStuff
     catch e
        doErrorStuff e
     end try
end mouseUp

An error or throw in doButtonStuff, even down deep in functions and 
commands, will bubble up to the catch (if there is no 'try' in 
between).

Using 'try' is fine for a small number of events that you want to 
watch.  It is great for putting at the top of some library functions.

If you are making a new plugin and want to integrate with the IDE, I'm 
not sure what is best, but it sounds like the direction you are going 
will work; I didn't look closely.

Dar Scott


From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Aug 11 16:17:25 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:17:25 +0100
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
 <E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>

At 15:39 11/08/2004 -0400, Troy Rollins wrote:

>On Aug 11, 2004, at 3:30 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>>I concur heartily with all that Alex said about RR and Python.
>
>Really? You consider Rev particularly strong in Imaging and Multimedia too?
>
>I've been biting my tongue on that one.

Yeah - I figured a few people might rise to that one, based on recent 
discussion on this list. I do not have the experience with other tools 
mentioned recently that are strong in this area.  I even put in the caveat
>...... multimedia (other on the list might disagree because they are 
>experienced in other tools in that area, where I'm not).

But I still think it's true in the context of Kevin's question - he said

>I'm in the process of studying Tcl/Tk, and also plan
>to look at C++ (Qt), Java (Swing) and Python (wxPython).

and I have no doubt that RR is streets ahead of any of those for 
multimedia. Imaging might arguable using PIL or similar - but I'm pretty 
sure RR is well ahead for multimedia.

You went on to say ....
>String handling, yes, network and internet, yes, file system, yes... but 
>Imaging and Multimedia?

Actually, I don't think RR excels at network and internet; it does them OK, 
but without broader library support it can't be said to excel. (e.g. NNTP, 
NTP, IMAP, POP3, email header parsers, Mime-type handling, etc.). Any of 
those could built in RR (perhaps more easily than in many other languages), 
but until they are supported in the standard package, or in well organized 
add-ons, RR is still lagging.

-- Alex.








From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Wed Aug 11 16:17:20 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:17:20 -0400
Subject: Gray background only visible on printing
In-Reply-To: <20040811175544.EE735930136@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD3FF710.24A9%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

I am creating my own printing stack. The built-in print commands are not
versatile enough. But my simple gripe is that any stack should have the same
things visible on the screen as what prints when you say: "print card"
unless you specifically tell it to hide or change something on printing. At
least that is my opinion. I was very surprised to find that the default
background for all stacks which appears white is actually gray when printed.
I think it is non-intuitive and should be fixed by RunRev unless there is
some reason for it. If there is a reason I would like to know what it is --
please!

But basically setting the background of any stack you are using to white
solves the problem but doesn't make me feel any better ; )

Bill


On 8/11/04 1:55 PM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>> Thanks for that info. But I guess my real question is the WYSIWG dilemma.
>> The gray background is only visible when you print the card. So if the
>> system gray color is showing through why does it appear white when you look
>> at the card?
>> 
>> I have solved it by setting the stack background color to white but my gripe
>> is that he gray color is invisible except when printing and I think that is
>> a RUNREV fault which should be corrected.
> 
> Maybe; it depends on how you are doing your printing. If you are using
> the pre-built Revolution printing commands ("revPrintText", etc.) then
> it could be a Rev problem. These Rev handlers create temporary stacks to
> produce the printout and may not be setting the background color
> correctly (I'd have to go check, I can't remember.) If you are creating
> your own printing stack, then you'll have to remember to set the
> background color on that before running a print job.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Aug 11 16:30:57 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:30:57 +0200
Subject: PostgreSQL 8 beta avail.
In-Reply-To: <20040811191820.A6BDA30AB4@mail.rtl.org>
References: <20040811191820.A6BDA30AB4@mail.rtl.org>
Message-ID: <5987BF34-EBD5-11D8-ACE0-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hello List,

And the good news is that this PostgreSQL 8.0 issue will be, beside the 
*NIX and Mac OS X, issues, the first one natively available for the 
windows platform too (no more curses emulation at all) !!!

PostgreSQL 8.0 will support many new improvements, including 
tablespaces magagment and lots more. For production state apps, it's 
still recommanded to use the PostgreSQL 7.4.3 issue...

PostgreSQL : the most  friendly ACID RDBMS available to suit our 
WEB/EAI oriented Revolution centric developments (beside the expensive 
Sybase ASE 12.5 and before the less suitable Oracle 10g).

Best, Pierre

Le 11 ao?t 04, ? 21:22, Dave LeYanna a ?crit :

> FYI The beta version of PostgreSQL 8.0 is available. The Windows 
> installer
> went without a hitch and it comes with a Windows admin utility. I'll be
> trying it out with Rev over the next couple of days...
>
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk  Wed Aug 11 16:40:25 2004
From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:40:25 +0100
Subject: Educational uses for Rev (was Re: Plea to sell Dan's book
 widely)
In-Reply-To: <411A4F0E.6000903@fourthworld.com>
References: <01d801c47d07$7da78470$0301a8c0@john>
 <343FE540-EBA9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
 <ED4DCA48-EBAA-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
 <411A4F0E.6000903@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06100501bd401c42124e@[129.215.153.161]>

>>Not only in teaching programming but in designing custom 
>>educational courseware. Who wants the student to have ONLY simple 
>>multiple-guess questions to work with?
>>
>>Life doesn't come with a series of four exclusive-or questions 
>>tattooed across it, so why give student this unrealistic view of 
>>the real world, when a little work in Rev will permit far more 
>>challenging interactivity?
>
>Agreed wholeheartedly.  Education-related work was the largest 
>single set of tasks folks did with HyperCard, and for all the tools 
>that have come out since there remains an unaddressed gap which may 
>be an ideal focus for DreamCard.
>
>But moving beyond simple questions models like multiple choice is 
>difficult.  The AICC courseware interoperability standard describes 
>almost a dozen question models, but most are variants of "choose 
>one", "choose many", "closest match", etc., sometimes enlived by 
>using drag-and-drop as the mechanism for applying the answer but not 
>substantially different from what gets tested with a simple multiple 
>choice in terms of truer assessment of what's been learned.
>
>The challenge is to find more open-ended question models which can 
>still be assessed by the computer.  For example, the most open-ended 
>question is an essay, but I sure don't want to write the routine 
>that scores essays. :)
>
>What sorts of enhanced question models do you think would be ideal 
>for computer-based learning?

Richard, Marian,

General information on computer-based assessment can be found on the 
CAA website  (Computer assisted assessment centre, UK, University of 
Luton), http://www.caacentre.ac.uk/ or on the Pass-it Scotland 
website, http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/projects/passit/. The later 
considers a wide range of activities, from situations where 
candidates word process short answer responses or essays and submit 
these to markers by e-mail, to those where candidates take 
computer-delivered tests online and their responses are marked 
through automated marking systems. I have a (long) list of references 
that I am ready to share, if you are interested.

Yes, I agree that Revolution could be the ideal tool to let teachers 
easily develop complex formative exercises with no requirement of 
technical skills. At least, it's what I argue in a grant I submitted 
recently. You can find the full description at : 
http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/mlange/Elearning/.

Unfortunately, that project did not get funded (at this stage, 
Universities are more concerned about speeding up the exam process 
with automatized summative -- multiple choices -- assessment)...

This means I will have to find other ways to get me a full license 
for revolution. Damn, I want it so badly, Revolution is the 
programming language of my dreams. It's ideal for persons like me who 
have zillions of (small) projects to realize, but do not have enough 
spare time to juggle with complex computer languages. So easy to use 
and program, and yet so powerful! I tried to convince my university 
to buy a site license, but no luck there (the person I contacted said 
that she did not find the time to try the product one month later 
after my request). If you have a "selling" portfolio, I would be more 
than happy to forward it to them. Otherwise, no chance to get an HE 
education price? Yes, I agree, revolution is worth more than its 
current price... but HE people often have no plan to sell the 
products they develop. Selling it to a lower price to HE individuals 
may have them ask their university to buy a site or university-wide 
license. Also, HE people are creative, productive, often happy to 
make their codes public and may contribute to the development of a 
gallery of small programs. Seriously, the product, Revolution, is 
great, but the shop-window is currently of little appeal. Do you know 
of konfabulator (http://www.konfabulator.com/)? They are highly 
succesfull despite the fact that they are exactly the opposite... 
limited potential but dramatic shop-window full of jaw dropping 
little time-savers or friendly desktop fillers (yes, most of them are 
useless, but Konfabulator lets you develop small applications, in one 
or two days and proudly show it on the net, which apparently appeals 
customers). I suspect that your decision to develop a less expensive 
player is a step in that direction. But its not a good option for a 
lecturer who cannot ask each one of his students to buy a player to 
benefit from the courseware material he has developed.

I should maybe take this opportunity to add that the university 
lecturer I am is seriously considering moving to a career of 
developing tools for teachers (so many  university teachers do not 
even know about HTML, believe me, there is a HUGE market for tools 
that let them easily develop courseware material and put it on the 
web, as encouraged more and more by Universities) and courseware for 
students (believe me, there is a HUGE market there too... even more 
when small tablets/ebooks will begin to appear). If anybody is 
interested in an association or has a job to propose, I would be 
delighted to hear from them. I currently live in Edinburgh, Scotland 
(and I have credentials, as I won an award for best educational 
website).

Cheers,
Marielle

  "Imagine a school with children that can read or write, but with 
teachers who cannot, and you have a metaphor of the Information Age 
in which we live. "  -Peter Cochrane

-- 
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguistics, Lecturer in Psychology and 
Informatics
University of Edinburgh, UK

Email:        M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage:  http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/mlange/
Calendar:    http://www.icalx.com/html/mlange/week.php?cal=Work

Contact details:
Dept of Psychology /  7 George Square /  EH8 9JZ / UK / Tel: 44 131 650
3444  / Fax: 44 131 650 6626
ANC institute / 5 Forrest Hill / EH1 2QL / UK / Tel: 44 131 650 3098 /
Fax: 44 131 650 6899

From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Aug 11 16:40:52 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:40:52 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>
References: <E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BC4D8653-EBD6-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

>> String handling, yes, network and internet, yes, file system, yes... 
>> but Imaging and Multimedia?
>
> Actually, I don't think RR excels at network and internet; it does 
> them OK, but without broader library support it can't be said to 
> excel. (e.g. NNTP, NTP, IMAP, POP3, email header parsers, Mime-type 
> handling, etc.). Any of those could built in RR (perhaps more easily 
> than in many other languages), but until they are supported in the 
> standard package, or in well organized add-ons, RR is still lagging.

OK. Well, it handles strings darn well then, we agree on that!

;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 11 17:17:17 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:17:17 -0400
Subject: Educational uses for Rev (was Re: Plea to sell Dan's book
	widely)
In-Reply-To: <p06100501bd401c42124e@[129.215.153.161]>
References: <01d801c47d07$7da78470$0301a8c0@john>
	<343FE540-EBA9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
	<ED4DCA48-EBAA-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<411A4F0E.6000903@fourthworld.com> <p06100501bd401c42124e@[129.215.153.161]>
Message-ID: <D321873A-EBDB-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Marielle wrote:

 >>>>I suspect that your decision to develop a less expensive player is 
a step in that direction. But its not a good option for a lecturer who 
cannot ask each one of his students to buy a player to benefit from the 
courseware material he has developed.

I have not paid very close attention to this since the player does not 
interest me, but it is my understanding that the player (as in the 
executable file that plays your stacks) will be like HyperCard 
Player--free to distribute with your stacks.  Or am I misspeaking?

 >>>Yes, I agree, revolution is worth more than its current price... but 
HE people often have no plan to sell the products they develop. Selling 
it to a lower price to HE individuals may have them ask their 
university to buy a site or university-wide license.

Again, I bought a Professional license (now Enterprise) when Rev first 
came out and have continued with same, so I have not kept up with the 
cost/features of other versions.  However, if you are simply developing 
applications for your students to use, couldn't you simply get by with 
an Express license at $149  (makes standalones that exit with "made 
with Revolution")? Or, if you need to create cross-platform apps but 
are OK with doing your creation on one platform, a Studio license at 
$299 (no "made with Rev" on exit)?

Finally, it sounds like Dreamcard, which I think will cost $100 will be 
exactly what you need, assuming that you are permitted to distribute 
the player with your stacks at no extra charge.

 >>>If anybody is interested in an association or has a job to propose, 
I would be delighted to hear from them.

I don't have a job (not even for myself ;-) but would be glad to talk 
off list.  I am in Vermont, USA.

Marian


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 11 17:36:14 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:36:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf v02b
Message-ID: <20040811213614.72102.qmail@web40513.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Developers,

Download the stack "vector2pdf_v02b":

_http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/vector2pdf_v02b.zip_
<http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/vector2pdf_v02b.zip>
 
This handler now includes Ascii85 encoding and
AsciiHex encoding.

I have succesfully export one image from
RR to pdf. But more work is needed to
make the process reliable.

Now i'm trying to make the Gzip compresion 
of RunRev works with Acrobat Reader.

I noticed that all gziped binary strings
produced by RR begin with the same characters.

I tried to delete these characters but Acrobat
Reader still do not recognize the string as gzip
compressed. Some time ago, Dar Scott mentioned
that the function compress() do not return a fully
RFC compliant gzip compressed string.
If you have more info about the rfc gzip standard,
please comment about possible solutions.

Inform to the mail list about any incompabilities
and error messages with Acrobat 6 and Readers from
Mac OS X and Linux.
 
If you want to help to write the code needed to 
write text and images with this handler, download
the PDF reference manual from:
<http://penguin.at0.net/~fredo/files/PDF-DOCS/>
_http://penguin.at0.net/~fredo/files/PDF-DOCS/_
  
Thanks a lot to Richard Gaskin (for his help with 
the codenames funtions), to Jim Hurley and
Jan Schenkel, (for identifying and fixing diverse
bugs in the previous version), to Pierre Sahores
(for reporting on error messages in his platforms),
and everyone of you, who take the time to test
this handler in your machines.
 
al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug 11 17:57:27 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:57:27 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev (was Re: Plea to sell Dan's book
	widely)
In-Reply-To: <p06100501bd401c42124e@[129.215.153.161]>
References: <01d801c47d07$7da78470$0301a8c0@john>
	<343FE540-EBA9-11D8-98F9-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
	<ED4DCA48-EBAA-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<411A4F0E.6000903@fourthworld.com> <p06100501bd401c42124e@[129.215.153.161]>
Message-ID: <411A9647.5070506@fourthworld.com>

Marielle Lange wrote:
> Do you know of konfabulator (http://www.konfabulator.com/)? They are 
> highly succesfull despite the fact that they are exactly the opposite... 
> limited potential but dramatic shop-window full of jaw dropping little 
> time-savers or friendly desktop fillers (yes, most of them are useless, 
> but Konfabulator lets you develop small applications, in one or two days 
> and proudly show it on the net, which apparently appeals customers).

While it generated a fair amount of buzz when it came out, it's worth 
noting that according to the Support page there the two folks who make 
Konfab never left their day jobs.

In the dot-bomb era mindshare was more important than revenue, but now 
that we've had a roadside sobriety check on the information superhighway 
we've returned to more traditional definitions of success. :)

But where Konfab's eye-candy-over-utility is an inherent part of their 
security model, Rev's greater flexibility has no such limitation.  With 
user-definable security options, the Rev Player can be used for net-only 
apps with no file I/O or full applications.

> I suspect that your decision to develop a less expensive player is a step 
> in that direction. But its not a good option for a lecturer who cannot 
> ask each one of his students to buy a player to benefit from the 
> courseware material he has developed.

The Rev Player is free.

And for more than a decade the engine has had the ability to create 
standalones that can run other stacks, so one can make their own 
learning tool to run any number and variety of courseware, royalty-free.


> I should maybe take this opportunity to add that the university lecturer 
> I am is seriously considering moving to a career of developing tools for 
> teachers (so many  university teachers do not even know about HTML, 
> believe me, there is a HUGE market for tools that let them easily 
> develop courseware material and put it on the web, as encouraged more 
> and more by Universities) and courseware for students (believe me, there 
> is a HUGE market there too... even more when small tablets/ebooks will 
> begin to appear).

The Web can be fine for relatively simple presentations, but is limited 
for more sophisticated interactions.

Send the lecturer to:
<http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html>

There are links there to many other resources as well.

This is not to suggest that using the Web for distance learning is 
necessarily a bad idea, but that most of its strengths are equally 
applicable to custom client software such as one can make in Revolution, 
Director, or REBOL, and many of the unique benefits are largely based on 
misconceptions (such as helper apps being somehow more trouble than 
dealing with the limitations of a browser plugin).

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

-- 

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug 11 18:01:58 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:01:58 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>
References: <E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <411A9756.3060704@fourthworld.com>

Alex Tweedly wrote:
> Actually, I don't think RR excels at network and internet; it does them 
> OK, but without broader library support it can't be said to excel. (e.g. 
> NNTP, NTP, IMAP, POP3, email header parsers, Mime-type handling, etc.). 
> Any of those could built in RR (perhaps more easily than in many other 
> languages), but until they are supported in the standard package, or in 
> well organized add-ons, RR is still lagging.

People still use Usenet?  I thought the spammers drove them all away. ;)

There's a POP library available -- does it not also handle POP3?

What specific challenges have you encountered with parsing email 
headers, and what do you need to do with MIME types?

How are those handled in other languages?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From mdswindell at charter.net  Wed Aug 11 18:10:46 2004
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:10:46 -0700
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
Message-ID: <4B702C18-EBE3-11D8-87BB-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>

I'm wrapping up a project (finally) and have done my best to use 
graphics for all displays but there are a couple of fields and buttons 
that need X-platform fonts.   I know very little about Windows so 
forgive my ignorance.

First, is there a tutorial site I can be pointed to that deals with 
X-platform font implementation in any sort of comprehensive way?

Is Comic Sans MS a common windows font?  It seems ubiquitous in print, 
but I know next to nothing about Windows.  Can I assume that Verdana 10 
will display as a Verdana 10  in pop-up buttons on the Windows side of 
things?  How about Helvetica?  Are 10 pt and 12pt sizes a safe bet, or 
do they display larger on Windows machines?

TIA,
Mark


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Aug 11 18:29:12 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:29:12 -0700
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <4B702C18-EBE3-11D8-87BB-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
References: <4B702C18-EBE3-11D8-87BB-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
Message-ID: <DE929F60-EBE5-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Mark......

We just had a HUGE discussion on this topic on this list over the last 
week or so. Search the archives for the bad news.

Dan

On Aug 11, 2004, at 3:10 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:

> I'm wrapping up a project (finally) and have done my best to use 
> graphics for all displays but there are a couple of fields and buttons 
> that need X-platform fonts.   I know very little about Windows so 
> forgive my ignorance.
>
> First, is there a tutorial site I can be pointed to that deals with 
> X-platform font implementation in any sort of comprehensive way?
>
> Is Comic Sans MS a common windows font?  It seems ubiquitous in print, 
> but I know next to nothing about Windows.  Can I assume that Verdana 
> 10 will display as a Verdana 10  in pop-up buttons on the Windows side 
> of things?  How about Helvetica?  Are 10 pt and 12pt sizes a safe bet, 
> or do they display larger on Windows machines?
>
> TIA,
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Aug 11 18:38:20 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 23:38:20 +0100
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411A9756.3060704@fourthworld.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>
 <E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
 <E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811231606.027e11c8@mail.tweedly.net>

At 15:01 11/08/2004 -0700, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>Alex Tweedly wrote:
>>Actually, I don't think RR excels at network and internet; it does them 
>>OK, but without broader library support it can't be said to excel. (e.g. 
>>NNTP, NTP, IMAP, POP3, email header parsers, Mime-type handling, etc.). 
>>Any of those could built in RR (perhaps more easily than in many other 
>>languages), but until they are supported in the standard package, or in 
>>well organized add-ons, RR is still lagging.
>
>People still use Usenet?  I thought the spammers drove them all away. ;)

That's one reason you might need a scripting language - to guard against 
Spam :-)


>There's a POP library available -- does it not also handle POP3?

I'm sure it will - but I couldn't find a POP library. (so it's either not 
in the standard package, or it's not well documented, or it's not in a 
"well organized add-on").

>What specific challenges have you encountered with parsing email headers, 
>and what do you need to do with MIME types?

None - since I didn't find a POP3 library, or an email/mime handling lib I 
did the project in a different language rather than RR, so didn't have any 
specific challenges.

>How are those handled in other languages?

Can't answer in general, but in Python there's convenient POP3 library, so 
you do something like

import poplib
MAIL = poplib.POP3("mail.tweedly.net")
MAIL.user("username")
MAIL.pass_("password")

messageList = MAIL.uidl()[1]

for msg in messageList:
     msgNum, msgUID = msg.split()
     MAIL.retr(msgNum)
   etc.

to handle a particular email, you use the email library
import email
emailmessage = email.message_from_string(theMessageFromPOP3Above)

and then you can conveniently retrieve the headers
   headerValue = emailmessage.get('headername')
and parse them
   who, emailAddr = email.Utils.parseaddr(msg.get('from'))
and (in a similar way) you can walk through each part of the message using 
simple get() and gettype() functions, such as
if p.get_main_type() == "image":
             image = p.get_payload(decode=1)
             fname = p.get_filename()
which not only extract the name and payload, but decodes it for you, ready 
to write to a file.

Summary:
  I could write any one of these functions in RR/Transcript just by reading 
the RFCs and putting in some effort.
  I could write all of them (adequately, maybe not well) given enough time.

But I have finished the project in question in the time it would take me to 
read through rfc-2822, far less implement it.

-- Alex.

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 11 18:37:48 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:37:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: send ("myHandler" && myItems) in tSpeed millisecs only sends item 1
	of myItems
In-Reply-To: <E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20040811223748.66665.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>

send ("myHandler" && pMyItems) in tSpeed
millisecs -- only sends item 1 of pMyItems.

send ("myHandler" && myItems) in tSpeed
-- by itself sends all of the items in pMyItems.

this is step 1 in coordinating with sound!

thank you,

Erik Hansen


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 11 18:56:18 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:56:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: send ("myHandler" && myItems) in tSpeed... typo corrected
In-Reply-To: <20040811223748.66665.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040811225618.94829.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>

correction:

> send ("myHandler" && pMyItems) in tSpeed
> millisecs -- only sends item 1 of pMyItems.
> 
> send ("myHandler" && myItems) -- by itself
> sends all of the items in pMyItems.
> 
> this is step 1 in coordinating with sound!


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. 
http://messenger.yahoo.com

From michaell at unimelb.edu.au  Wed Aug 11 19:02:06 2004
From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:02:06 +1000
Subject: Educational uses for Rev (was Re: Plea to sell Dan's book 
 widely)
Message-ID: <p05200f37bd4053833746@[128.250.229.137]>


At 4:31 PM -0400 11/8/04, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>Perhaps another educational use of Rev-based products would be exploratory
>learning... then assessed, perhaps, by the dreaded m/c questions
>
>Judy

Exactly! While assessment can drive learning, there is more to 
teaching and learning than tests ;-)

I use simulations that I've written with Rev to first allow 
(university) students to conduct experiments and learn from the 
results, but then to design and conduct their own experiments to 
answer questions. The learning objectives of the two stages are 
different, but obviously synergistic. At the moment most of the use 
of the simulations is in supervised conditions, but I am planning a 
kit of simulations that students will use as part of self-directed 
projects. At the moment I toying with the idea that students will be 
required to make reports that can be distributed to the class as 
learning resources; having to teach something is a terrific incentive 
for learning it first!

>On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>>  Marian Petrides wrote:
>>
>>  > Not only in teaching programming but in designing custom educational
>>  > courseware. Who wants the student to have ONLY simple multiple-guess
>>  > questions to work with?
>>  >
>>  > Life doesn't come with a series of four exclusive-or questions tattooed
>>  > across it, so why give student this unrealistic view of the real world,
>>  > when a little work in Rev will permit far more challenging interactivity?
>>
>>  Agreed wholeheartedly.  Education-related work was the largest single
>>  set of tasks folks did with HyperCard, and for all the tools that have
>>  come out since there remains an unaddressed gap which may be an ideal
>>  focus for DreamCard.
>>
>>  But moving beyond simple questions models like multiple choice is
>>  difficult.  The AICC courseware interoperability standard describes
>  > almost a dozen question models, but most are variants of "choose one",
>>  "choose many", "closest match", etc., sometimes enlived by using
>>  drag-and-drop as the mechanism for applying the answer but not
>>  substantially different from what gets tested with a simple multiple
>>  choice in terms of truer assessment of what's been learned.
>>
>>  The challenge is to find more open-ended question models which can still
>>  be assessed by the computer.  For example, the most open-ended question
>>  is an essay, but I sure don't want to write the routine that scores
>>  essays. :)
>>
>>  What sorts of enhanced question models do you think would be ideal for
>>  computer-based learning?
>>
>>  --
>>    Richard Gaskin
>  >   Fourth World Media Corporation

-- 
Michael J. Lew

Senior Lecturer
Department of Pharmacology
The University of Melbourne
Parkville 3010
Victoria
Australia

Phone +613 8344 8304

**
New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au
**

From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Aug 11 19:10:21 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:40:21 +0930
Subject: OS X Standalone (mis)behavior
In-Reply-To: <DD463DB5-EBAD-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOEFAEOAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


>> Any ideas? Maybe I'm doing something wrong when I am building the
>> standalone under 2.2?
>
>I've seen the zooming-without-launching effect too. I have no idea if
>this has been identified and logged with bugzilla though.

No it hasn't. There are only two bugs on the standalone builder and both are
PENDING. Without wishing to sound rude, it's a little frustrating to see
"I've seen that too" posts when a bug is discussed on the list and still
nothing in bugzilla. Please post to bugzilla so we can keep a record of the
issue. I'm not sure I have enough info to fix this yet though...

Cheers

--
  Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
  Sweat Technologies

  InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
  http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Aug 11 19:43:46 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:43:46 -0600
Subject: send ("myHandler" && myItems) in tSpeed millisecs only sends
	item 1 of myItems
In-Reply-To: <20040811223748.66665.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040811223748.66665.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <496C6CD2-EBF0-11D8-89A5-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 4:37 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:

> send ("myHandler" && pMyItems) in tSpeed millisecs -- only sends item 
> 1 of pMyItems.

If pMyItems contains 3 items, this will send 3 parameters to 
"myHandler".

Perhaps you want this:

    send "myHandler pMyItems" in tSpeed milliseconds

This will send one parameter to "myHandler", it containing an item 
list, I presume.

Dar Scott


From rodney at infiny.co.nz  Wed Aug 11 20:05:55 2004
From: rodney at infiny.co.nz (rodney tamblyn)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:05:55 +1200
Subject: OT MacinTalk
In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.2.20040810132135.01c73848@exchange.slg.com>
References: <8DCFE85B-EACB-11D8-86DE-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEFMGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
	<6.1.1.1.2.20040810132135.01c73848@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <61B45D1B-EBF3-11D8-A921-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>

I've got a copy which runs on my Newton :-)

~ Rodney

On 11/08/2004, at 6:26 AM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

> Actually MacInTalk was introduced with the very first Mac in 1984, so 
> that at the unveiling it could introduce itself...
>
> see http://developer.apple.com/technotes/pt/pdf/pt_22.pdf
>
> Here's an excerpt:
>
> For the introduction of the Macintosh computer, it was decided (by the 
> powers formerly in charge) that such a computer
> would need something very special to make it a unique event. To aid in 
> this concept, a third-party company was contracted
> to write a speech synthesizer which would allow the Macintosh computer 
> to introduce itself. The contract was signed, and
> the work begun.
>
> The outcome of this work was MacinTalk. MacinTalk is a file that can 
> be placed into the System Folder of an ordinary
> Macintosh computer and allow text to be transformed into speech for 
> the introduction in 1984. It was felt to be an
> interesting piece of software, so Apple made it available to 
> developers. Interfaces to MacinTalk were published and Apple
> Software Licensing allowed it to be included with developers' products.
>
>
--
Rodney Tamblyn
OceanBrowser Ltd
44 Melville Street
Dunedin, New Zealand
Ph +64-3-4778606
http://www.oceanbrowser.com/


From mdswindell at charter.net  Wed Aug 11 20:09:03 2004
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:09:03 -0700
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <DE929F60-EBE5-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <4B702C18-EBE3-11D8-87BB-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
	<DE929F60-EBE5-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <D1DAD0C4-EBF3-11D8-87BB-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>

Hey, thanks.  That thread really cleared things up for me!  <g>

It seems like the xplat font mess ought to be a high priority for 
Revolution.  The only solution I saw that seems foolproof is the free 
Bitstream Vera idea or the fellow who hired his own fontographer and 
required user installation.

I really don't get why this issue is insurmountable.  It seems like the 
kind of thing that leads to bad PR for any creation made with RR that 
displays poorly on different systems.  Perhaps there needs to be a font 
development effort for inclusion with RR that would ensure xplat 
compatibility and not cause copyright infringement.  If a program 
displays like &^#%#g it is perceived as same, and in the final analysis 
that hurts RR and those who develop with it.

Last question showing my ignorance:  Can fonts ever exist and be called 
from within an application itself, or must they reside at the system 
level and be called from there?

Mark

On Aug 11, 2004, at 3:29 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Mark......
>
> We just had a HUGE discussion on this topic on this list over the last 
> week or so. Search the archives for the bad news.
>
> Dan
>
> On Aug 11, 2004, at 3:10 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:
>
>> I'm wrapping up a project (finally) and have done my best to use 
>> graphics for all displays but there are a couple of fields and 
>> buttons that need X-platform fonts.   I know very little about 
>> Windows so forgive my ignorance.
>>
>> First, is there a tutorial site I can be pointed to that deals with 
>> X-platform font implementation in any sort of comprehensive way?
>>
>> Is Comic Sans MS a common windows font?  It seems ubiquitous in 
>> print, but I know next to nothing about Windows.  Can I assume that 
>> Verdana 10 will display as a Verdana 10  in pop-up buttons on the 
>> Windows side of things?  How about Helvetica?  Are 10 pt and 12pt 
>> sizes a safe bet, or do they display larger on Windows machines?
>>
>> TIA,
>> Mark
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 11 20:15:38 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:15:38 -0400
Subject: OT MacinTalk
In-Reply-To: <61B45D1B-EBF3-11D8-A921-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>
References: <8DCFE85B-EACB-11D8-86DE-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEFMGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
	<6.1.1.1.2.20040810132135.01c73848@exchange.slg.com>
	<61B45D1B-EBF3-11D8-A921-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>
Message-ID: <BCF90F3A-EBF4-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

I'd LOVE to have a copy--I had it on my Mac 512--but it's long gone 
now.  I still remember the opening phrases:  "In olden days not many 
people used computers because not very many people knew how. Then one 
bright day in Cupertino...."

M

On Aug 11, 2004, at 8:05 PM, rodney tamblyn wrote:

> I've got a copy which runs on my Newton :-)
>
> ~ Rodney
>
> On 11/08/2004, at 6:26 AM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:
>
>> Actually MacInTalk was introduced with the very first Mac in 1984, so 
>> that at the unveiling it could introduce itself...
>>
>> see http://developer.apple.com/technotes/pt/pdf/pt_22.pdf
>>
>> Here's an excerpt:
>>
>> For the introduction of the Macintosh computer, it was decided (by 
>> the powers formerly in charge) that such a computer
>> would need something very special to make it a unique event. To aid 
>> in this concept, a third-party company was contracted
>> to write a speech synthesizer which would allow the Macintosh 
>> computer to introduce itself. The contract was signed, and
>> the work begun.
>>
>> The outcome of this work was MacinTalk. MacinTalk is a file that can 
>> be placed into the System Folder of an ordinary
>> Macintosh computer and allow text to be transformed into speech for 
>> the introduction in 1984. It was felt to be an
>> interesting piece of software, so Apple made it available to 
>> developers. Interfaces to MacinTalk were published and Apple
>> Software Licensing allowed it to be included with developers' 
>> products.
>>
>>
> --
> Rodney Tamblyn
> OceanBrowser Ltd
> 44 Melville Street
> Dunedin, New Zealand
> Ph +64-3-4778606
> http://www.oceanbrowser.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Aug 11 20:20:58 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:20:58 -0400
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf v02b
Message-ID: <OF140070AE.9DD5D7B4-ON85256EEE.00011BB8@sealedair.com>

> Inform to the mail list about any incompabilities
> and error messages with Acrobat 6 and Readers from
> Mac OS X and Linux.

Since v02 and v02b, PDF files will not open in Reader 6.0 with or without 
ascii85 or hex encoding. Reader 6 gives no error message and displays an 
empty square page. The page size is reported as 0 x 0 in Reader 6.

All encodings open fine in Acrobat 5.0, and it allows saving. Oddly, after 
saving from Acrobat 5.0, Reader 6.0 still will not open the file.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 11 20:23:01 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:23:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040811203152.AB1659300C2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040812002301.74956.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>

on Thu, 12 Aug 2004 
Kaj Schwermer wrote:
 
> Thanks for the inspiration!  Speaking of novices 
> and creating apps for 
> the educational market.  I haven't seen the
> beginning of this thread 
> and am a complete neophyte as far as programming
> goes, but am extremely 
> interested in potential uses of Rev for the
> educational market.  

For a while, RunRev started a Education Mail list,
but some uneducated responses make that list
to be closed.

> I run a small chain of language schools here in 
> Osaka, Japan and have been 
> working in the language education 
> field for nearly a decade here in 
> this country, specializing in children's education.

While i was working in Macintosh, i made a
"identify hiragana-katakana" stack.

It required that Kanji fonts were installed in
the Macintosh.

> The English 
> language education market is a multibillion dollar
> market in this 
> country alone, but decent software (language
> teaching in Asia) is few 
> and far between.  

What's the main operating systems of PC in Japan?
I've read somewhere that NEC computers are
a majority in Japan, or it was long ago?

Talking with some japanese people, i learned
that relatively few japanese could speak
english with fluency. This was a surprise for me.

> I would be very interested in
> hearing more about what 
> you have to say about potential applications 
> in this field.
 
Look at the users contributions
in the RunRev site.

These educational interactions from
Macromedia Flash are a piece of cake
in this platform:

<>

With little work, you can realize
MOST of your ideas in RR/MC/DreamCard!

Mark Swindell wrote:

> It would seem Revolution could really make a dent
> in education, as well, particularly in the 
> instruction of basic programming skills and logic.  

Look at these links:

<http://www.metacard.com/pi6.html>
<ftp://ftp.metacard.com/MetaCard/mtp.mc>
<ftp://ftp.metacard.com/MetaCard/mtpguide.mc>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> The challenge is to find more open-ended question
> models which can still 
> be assessed by the computer.  For example, the most
> open-ended question 
> is an essay, but I sure don't want to write the
> routine that scores 
> essays. :)

This will require some sort of Artificial
Inteligent agents. A Team work for sure. ;-)

> What sorts of enhanced question models do you think
> would be ideal for 
> computer-based learning?

Simulations. Or Social games, like those that 
Mark Prensky advocates:

<http://www.marcprensky.com>

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


	
		
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New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Aug 11 20:53:36 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:53:36 -0500
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>

Certainly there are some imaging tasks which can be done better in Flash 
or Director, and some done better in RR. I seriously doubt ButtonGadget 
could be built in either Flash or Director. Among other things, 
ButtonGadget has a transcript-coded compositing engine and convolution 
filter.

In fact, I wouldn't know if you can directly edit the binary data of 
images (bits and bytes, not pixels) in either Flash or Director w/out 
some sort of external.

OTH, Flash has anti-aliased graphics and Director built-in 3D capabilities.

 From a multimedia perspective, Flash and Director pretty much have it 
all over RR. If one is planning on creating a complex multimedia 
product, then I would of course suggest Director. That is not to say you 
can't create multimedia within RR, just that more options are available 
to developers in either Flash or Director.

best,

Chipp

Troy Rollins wrote:


> Really? You consider Rev particularly strong in Imaging and Multimedia too?
> 
> I've been biting my tongue on that one.

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug 11 21:18:09 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:18:09 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <411AC551.5000909@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:

>  From a multimedia perspective, Flash and Director pretty much have it 
> all over RR. 

This depends on what you're building, of course.

I just had a meeting this morning with a new client who produces three 
multimedia CD-ROM products a year using Director, who's very excited 
about moving into the faster production workflow and multimedia 
performance he finds with Rev (apparently Director has a tough time 
being graceful under Quartz, and a lot of his customers as OS X users).

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 11 21:24:33 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:24:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] vector to pdf v02b
In-Reply-To: <20040812005100.06AF09300BB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040812012433.95887.qmail@web40506.mail.yahoo.com>

on Wed, 11 Aug 2004 
Roger.E.Eller wrote:

>Since v02 and v02b, PDF files will not open 
>in Reader 6.0 with or without ascii85 or hex 
>encoding. 

I'll have to download Adobe Reader v6.0,
but first, i'll need to download and read
the new pdf spec v1.5. :-)

>Reader 6 gives no error message and 
>displays an empty square page. The page size is 
>reported as 0 x 0 in Reader 6.

Interesting, because you will see the 
"mediabox" tag in the pdf file with a
clearly defined size.

>All encodings open fine in Acrobat 5.0, and it 
>allows saving. Oddly, after saving from Acrobat 5.0, 
>Reader 6.0 still will not open the file.

Not even after saving from the full version
of Acrobat!!! :-((

That's not good.
When a file is saved in Acrobat 5 it's
linearizated or optimized for fast 
web downloading.

If Reader 6.0 does not recognize linearized pdf,
then it means that Acrobat 5 it's not modifying
the pdf after saving it.

I'll revert to use the template of version 01
to see if this solves the problem.

Thanks a lot for the report! :-))

al


=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Aug 11 21:34:00 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:34:00 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 8:53 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Certainly there are some imaging tasks which can be done better in 
> Flash or Director, and some done better in RR. I seriously doubt 
> ButtonGadget could be built in either Flash or Director. Among other 
> things, ButtonGadget has a transcript-coded compositing engine and 
> convolution filter.
>
> In fact, I wouldn't know if you can directly edit the binary data of 
> images (bits and bytes, not pixels) in either Flash or Director w/out 
> some sort of external.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not down on RR, but I also know Director quite 
well. ButtonGadget could not only be done in Director without any 
externals, it would have MANY more options. Director has a full 
compositing engine based on direct access to C libraries which is, to 
say the least blazingly fast, and incredibly powerful. Granted, it is 
an advanced function, and one which you don't often see, but in reality 
it is no harder than anything else. It is SO fast, that there is no 
need to render, buttons like buttonGadget produces can be rendered, and 
animated in real time.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Aug 11 21:36:53 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:36:53 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 11, 2004, at 5:53 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Certainly there are some imaging tasks which can be done better in 
> Flash or Director, and some done better in RR. I seriously doubt 
> ButtonGadget could be built in either Flash or Director. Among other 
> things, ButtonGadget has a transcript-coded compositing engine and 
> convolution filter.
>
> In fact, I wouldn't know if you can directly edit the binary data of 
> images (bits and bytes, not pixels) in either Flash or Director w/out 
> some sort of external.
>
> OTH, Flash has anti-aliased graphics and Director built-in 3D 
> capabilities.
>
> From a multimedia perspective, Flash and Director pretty much have it 
> all over RR. If one is planning on creating a complex multimedia 
> product, then I would of course suggest Director. That is not to say 
> you can't create multimedia within RR, just that more options are 
> available to developers in either Flash or Director.

The word multimedia is a broad term and while Director seems to be 
designed primarily as a multimedia playback environment (Flash really 
doesn't support much when it comes to media, it just does vector really 
well with bitmaps and video thrown in) I find that is seriously lacking 
when it comes to building multimedia applications.

What I mean by a multimedia application is a program that looks and 
acts like most software that runs on your computer (multiple windows, 
menus, native interface elements, etc.) but uses media as a central 
piece of the application.  In my experience when you write a program in 
Director it looks like you created in in Director if you know what I 
mean.  Rev apps look like they belong on the system.  I chose 
Revolution a few years back for this very reason.  The majority of the 
apps I work on are primarily media based and Revolution has performed 
excellently.  Now I haven't used the latest version of Director but if 
I remember correctly you had to use some silly thing called MIAW in 
Director anytime you wanted to create any windows besides the main 
presentation window.  That always gave me headaches.  Rev makes it easy 
and that makes me happy.

Now my projects don't have flashy vector graphics that spin all around 
the screen and nauseate people but they use media just the same.  I use 
large bitmaps that have interactive portions, screens of media elements 
that are generated from database data, navigational elements that are 
generated from the db and animated onto the screen, and QT to integrate 
most of the other things I want to do (the interactive 3D stuff, 
instructive Flash animations, etc.).  I have been very pleased with 
Rev's performance in all of these areas.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Aug 11 21:37:59 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:37:59 -0700
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <D1DAD0C4-EBF3-11D8-87BB-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
References: <4B702C18-EBE3-11D8-87BB-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
	<DE929F60-EBE5-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<D1DAD0C4-EBF3-11D8-87BB-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
Message-ID: <3E14A86D-EC00-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 5:09 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:

> I really don't get why this issue is insurmountable.  It seems like 
> the kind of thing that leads to bad PR for any creation made with RR 
> that displays poorly on different systems.

If you read the entire thread, you know that this problem is note 
peculiar to RR. It's a very broad and difficult problem to solve. 
IMNSHO, nobody has really solved it elegantly and transparently in a 
development tool.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Aug 11 21:41:36 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:41:36 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411AC551.5000909@fourthworld.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com> <411AC551.5000909@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BF80AF82-EC00-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 9:18 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I just had a meeting this morning with a new client who produces three 
> multimedia CD-ROM products a year using Director, who's very excited 
> about moving into the faster production workflow and multimedia 
> performance he finds with Rev (apparently Director has a tough time 
> being graceful under Quartz, and a lot of his customers as OS X 
> users).

With all due respect, this simply isn't true. Well, I'm sure it is true 
insomuch as your client believes it, but, they are wrong. I program in 
Director, under quartz. Its graphics performance is certainly graceful 
under quartz.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From nrkweto03 at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 11 21:36:31 2004
From: nrkweto03 at hotmail.com (kweto)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:36:31 +0900
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
References: <20040812002301.74956.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY17-DAV8mYDKFJ2I100001c87@hotmail.com>

Alejandro Tejanda asked:

> What's the main operating systems of PC in Japan?

Windows, hands down.

> I've read somewhere that NEC computers are
> a majority in Japan, or it was long ago?

Long ago, there's a good chance NEC were dominant. All the schools of all
the schoolboards I taught at 15 years ago, for example, had installed
"top-of-the-line" CALL rooms (40+ PC's, projector screen, printers, all
networked, though no internet), and everything had the NEC brand.
(Incidentally, those rooms also collected a lot of dust.) And, knowing
bureaucracies, if two or three schoolboards went NEC then the likelihood is
also high that many (most? all??) other schoolboards nationwide went NEC
too.

Things now, though, may have changed.  This comment, too, is just a guess
from experience. For example, the private jr/sr high I was at most recently
was originally NEC based, but this year they re-did one of the CALL room's
with Dell machines. Must be the economy and everyone's efforts to cut down
on costs.

> Talking with some japanese people, i learned
> that relatively few japanese could speak
> english with fluency. This was a surprise for me.

Sadly, that's still probably true. But, then again, coming from Canada, I
can't speak with pride about the general French ability of Anglo-Canadians
despite years of education and, more importanly, despite the fact that it's
one of our official languages.

(Y ademas, Alejandro, me imagino que en tu mente estaras haciendo una
comparacion entre el nivel de ingles aqui y ese nivel tan alto que existe
por casi toda Europa. Si es asi, yo pienso que no es una comparacion
razonable. Por ejemplo, como ya sabras, los sistemas de letras y la
gramatica son bastantes diferentes, y, ademas, el ingles forma parte tanto
de la historia europeana como la de sus paises coloniales. Pero pensando
positivamente, me parece que a lo mejor despues de una o dos generaciones
mas, la abilidad en ingles aqui tambien se vera significadamente mejorada.
Por ejemplo, en una de los high-schools que enseno, casi todos los maestros
de ingles hablan el ingles "pera-pera". En contraste, hace quince anos antes
que, de las dozenas de maestros de ingles que yo conocia en las escuelas
publicas, solamente dos o tres hablaban o entendian el ingles
suficientemente. Puesto que, espero que las cosas esten cambiando
veramente.)


> > I would be very interested in
> > hearing more about what
> > you have to say about potential applications
> > in this field.

Kaj Schwermer asked that (Hello, Kaj! Nicolas Cueto here, in
Tochigi-ken/Japan for 15 -- or more?! -- years, and running just one
"eikaiwa" school), and, of course, the potential for RunRev or MC is near
infinite. Myself, I've made applications for in-class use or online; some of
it for making little doohickeys that just add fun to the class, some of it
for language analysis (part of my MSc involved corpora analysis of sr high
entrance exams), some of it for testing (and, horrors!, that includes
multiple-choice testing), some of it for generating classroom materials, and
some of it to handle repetitive tasks (like spitting out the html code for a
large table of photos). And, I agree with Kaj about the dearth of quality
CALL materials here. Hence why I roll my own. Now, if only I could draw, I'd
be all set. <g>

Enjoying and benefitting from this education thread!

Cheers,
Nicolas Cueto
niconiko language school (Japan)
http://kweto.com

From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Aug 11 22:18:46 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:18:46 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <F0D22057-EC05-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 9:36 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> What I mean by a multimedia application is a program that looks and 
> acts like most software that runs on your computer (multiple windows, 
> menus, native interface elements, etc.) but uses media as a central 
> piece of the application.  In my experience when you write a program 
> in Director it looks like you created in in Director if you know what 
> I mean.  Rev apps look like they belong on the system.  I chose 
> Revolution a few years back for this very reason.  The majority of the 
> apps I work on are primarily media based and Revolution has performed 
> excellently.  Now I haven't used the latest version of Director but if 
> I remember correctly you had to use some silly thing called MIAW in 
> Director anytime you wanted to create any windows besides the main 
> presentation window.  That always gave me headaches.  Rev makes it 
> easy and that makes me happy.

Multiple window applications under Director are a pain in the... 
anyway... oh yes, I agree, native interface elements and multiple 
windows are MUCH better in Rev.

>
> Now my projects don't have flashy vector graphics that spin all around 
> the screen and nauseate people but they use media just the same.

That is a bit of a stereotypic representation, I think. Tools are what 
the developer makes of them. You make it sound like the only thing 
people do with graphics handling power is meaningless garbage. I have a 
hard time believing that when you *were* using Director, you opted to 
make nauseating interfaces. If so, that would have been your choice I 
guess. One doesn't have to pull newbie spinning graphic stunts to 
appreciate interactive graphic manipulation power and speed. Certain 
audiences don't want native controls after all. Trade show environments 
are one. I think you know that, yet your characterization is 
particularly, and intentionally shallow.

In my case I use Director's graphics handling capabilities to make very 
beautiful and elegant dynamically generated animated menu systems which 
allow the user to navigate huge amounts of information... these menus 
are composited, animated and rendered in real-time based on reading 
database content and XML files. This is not nauseating spinning logo 
stuff, nor pointless and gratuitous, it is attractive, functional, 
effective and captivating - features demanded by the client and their 
audience.

The bottom line on that? Revolution was not the right tool to use for 
that project. Director has the functionality and capability required, 
Rev, at this point, does not. That doesn't make Rev a bad tool, and I 
never said it did, it simply is not the best tool for all projects.

> I use large bitmaps that have interactive portions, screens of media 
> elements that are generated from database data, navigational elements 
> that are generated from the db and animated onto the screen, and QT to 
> integrate most of the other things I want to do (the interactive 3D 
> stuff, instructive Flash animations, etc.).  I have been very pleased 
> with Rev's performance in all of these areas.

True, Rev can be OK when supported by QT and Flash. My whole point is, 
Rev is powerful to be sure, but it still has its weaker points. 
Graphics handling is one of them. But, why would I waste my time 
talking about it here? Because I'd LOVE to have the same capabilities 
in Rev that I do in Director, that's all. Not because I just want to 
prove that Director is "better." At certain aspects, it IS better, but 
it doesn't have to be that way for all time, does it?
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 11 22:24:01 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:24:01 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <ACC3F5B6-EC06-11D8-81E4-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, August 11, 2004, at 06:36 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

>  Now I haven't used the latest version of Director but if I remember 
> correctly you had to use some silly thing called MIAW in Director 
> anytime you wanted to create any windows besides the main presentation 
> window.  That always gave me headaches.

Ah yes MIAW, that's Movie In A Window. Works like a movie in a window 
when all the other windows in Amsterdam have real girls.

mb


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Aug 11 23:00:20 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:00:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411AC551.5000909@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408111959510.26551-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>



On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Chipp Walters wrote:
>
> >  From a multimedia perspective, Flash and Director pretty much have it
> > all over RR.
>
> This depends on what you're building, of course.

And it also depends upon whose building it.  Learning Director's no
cakewalk...

Judy


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Thu Aug 12 00:31:27 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:31:27 -0700
Subject: do submenuItems work?
In-Reply-To: <BC4D8653-EBD6-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD4040AF.6E75%moe2@shaw.ca>

using:  OS 9.2, iMac, lots of ram

i created a group of pulldown menus with menuItems using menuBuilder
  ... very nice job RR people,
then added a cascading menu for one of the parent menuItems.

i put this script in the menu buttons

on menuPick myChoice
 put myChoice & "?" & the menuHistory of me
end menuPick

script works great when there is a menuItem with NO cascading menu

? nothing happens when selecting a cascading menu ?

how do the rest of you toggle a checkMark before a cascading menu ...
without this code working?

i did just as documentation says in:
     Creating Cascading Menus
in the sixth line of "About ...    menus and menu bar",
I clicked the hotText "submenus" and exactly what i want to see was
displayed,
which is a checkMarked cascading menu

what i wanted to get was something like this:
  Third Item Is A Submenu|Second Item In Submenu

also it might be more clear if the word "Submenu" only appeared once and the
other "Submenu" word said "CascadeMenu" instead. what do the rest of you
think?

thank you in advance for help

moe 

From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 12 00:48:25 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:48:25 -0400
Subject: do submenuItems work?
In-Reply-To: <BD4040AF.6E75%moe2@shaw.ca>
References: <BD4040AF.6E75%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <D8727467-EC1A-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 12:31 AM, moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:

> how do the rest of you toggle a checkMark before a cascading menu ...
> without this code working?

I believe the technique is to loop through all of the menuItems, 
determine if the first char is a checkmark, and remove it. There is an 
example of this (required code included) in the documentation... 
somewhere.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Thu Aug 12 01:02:33 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:02:33 -0700
Subject: do submenuItems work?
In-Reply-To: <D8727467-EC1A-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD4047F8.6E84%moe2@shaw.ca>


i guess i did not make myself clear

i want to check and uncheck the cascading menu as the user selects it


> 
>> how do the rest of you toggle a checkMark before a cascading menu ...
>> without this code working?
> 
> I believe the technique is to loop through all of the menuItems,
> determine if the first char is a checkmark, and remove it. There is an
> example of this (required code included) in the documentation...
> somewhere.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 12 01:29:12 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 01:29:12 -0400
Subject: do submenuItems work?
In-Reply-To: <BD4047F8.6E84%moe2@shaw.ca>
References: <BD4047F8.6E84%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <8B08D118-EC20-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 1:02 AM, moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:

> i guess i did not make myself clear
>
> i want to check and uncheck the cascading menu as the user selects it

Check and uncheck the item which is the "source of the cascade"? The 
item in the higher level menu which has the arrow on the right?
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Aug 12 01:34:33 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:34:33 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <F0D22057-EC05-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<F0D22057-EC05-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <4A90A8D6-EC21-11D8-B662-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 11, 2004, at 7:18 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
> On Aug 11, 2004, at 9:36 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:
>>
>> Now my projects don't have flashy vector graphics that spin all 
>> around the screen and nauseate people but they use media just the 
>> same.
>
> That is a bit of a stereotypic representation, I think. Tools are what 
> the developer makes of them. You make it sound like the only thing 
> people do with graphics handling power is meaningless garbage. I have 
> a hard time believing that when you *were* using Director, you opted 
> to make nauseating interfaces. If so, that would have been your choice 
> I guess. One doesn't have to pull newbie spinning graphic stunts to 
> appreciate interactive graphic manipulation power and speed. Certain 
> audiences don't want native controls after all. Trade show 
> environments are one. I think you know that, yet your characterization 
> is particularly, and intentionally shallow.

Troy,

It was a stereotypic generalization and was made in gest.  My point was 
simply that a multimedia application doesn't by default have to be 
capable of the things that Flash and Director are typically known for.  
Each project has different needs and some projects fit very nicely into 
Rev's currently capabilities.  Note that I'm not advocating that Rev 
needn't improve in these areas, just that it isn't necessary for all 
multimedia projects.

> In my case I use Director's graphics handling capabilities to make 
> very beautiful and elegant dynamically generated animated menu systems 
> which allow the user to navigate huge amounts of information... these 
> menus are composited, animated and rendered in real-time based on 
> reading database content and XML files. This is not nauseating 
> spinning logo stuff, nor pointless and gratuitous, it is attractive, 
> functional, effective and captivating - features demanded by the 
> client and their audience.
>
> The bottom line on that? Revolution was not the right tool to use for 
> that project. Director has the functionality and capability required, 
> Rev, at this point, does not. That doesn't make Rev a bad tool, and I 
> never said it did, it simply is not the best tool for all projects.

See comment below.

>> I use large bitmaps that have interactive portions, screens of media 
>> elements that are generated from database data, navigational elements 
>> that are generated from the db and animated onto the screen, and QT 
>> to integrate most of the other things I want to do (the interactive 
>> 3D stuff, instructive Flash animations, etc.).  I have been very 
>> pleased with Rev's performance in all of these areas.
>
> True, Rev can be OK when supported by QT and Flash. My whole point is, 
> Rev is powerful to be sure, but it still has its weaker points. 
> Graphics handling is one of them. But, why would I waste my time 
> talking about it here? Because I'd LOVE to have the same capabilities 
> in Rev that I do in Director, that's all. Not because I just want to 
> prove that Director is "better." At certain aspects, it IS better, but 
> it doesn't have to be that way for all time, does it?

My goal isn't to say we don't need improvements in this area in Rev, I 
just don't want people who browse the list to walk away thinking that 
they should ditch Rev if they start on a multimedia project because it 
isn't capable of doing what Director or Flash can do.  Rev is capable 
of quite a bit right now and I'm always finding that it can do things 
that I thought were previously out if it's reach.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Thu Aug 12 01:35:20 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:35:20 -0700
Subject: do submenuItems work?
In-Reply-To: <BD4040AF.6E75%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <BD404FA8.6E85%moe2@shaw.ca>

this now works ... i dont know why the only difference is that i have now
had supper and created a cascade button from the tool palette, and deleted
it ... strange
> 
> on menuPick myChoice
> put myChoice & "?" & the menuHistory of me
> end menuPick
> 

> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Thu Aug 12 01:55:10 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:55:10 +0200
Subject: Who uses Rev?
Message-ID: <p06110400bd40b4513ea8@[10.0.0.2]>

Is there one type of person who is drawn towards learning and
using a scripting language such as Transcript? Not a chance.

Is there only one method for learning how to make things with Rev?
Absolutly not.

Here is the second in a series on interviews with people who
have become highly skilled at making things with Rev. The interviews
provide snapshots of how people found and learned to use Rev.

What path lead Malte Brill to Rev and how did he learn Transcript?
Find out here:        http://techietours.com/Rev/profile_mb.html


You can meet Malte Brill along with Richard Gaskin, Klaus Major,
Frederic Rinaldi, Jan Schenkel, Dan Shafer, and Rev CEO Kevin Miller at the
the European Rev Conference 14-15-16  November 2004 in Malta.
  http://techietours.com/Rev/

From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 12 01:57:52 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:57:52 -0500
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>

Troy,

Thanks for your comments. Here are some questions.

In Director, can you composite 4 images, one on the top of each other, 
each with a transparent alpha channel, and export the final single 
composited image as a PNG with alpha channel intact? I know they can be 
'overlayed' on top of each other, but combining them into a single image 
with the 'sum of the alphas' is quite a different thing. This is not a 
simple image snapshot I'm talking about.

Can you edit the binary data of a single image? Can you reset the dpi 
for an image w/out affecting the size of an image?

And, can you create a standalone application which can be launched by 
clicking a 'document file' (not the app itself) and load the document 
file automatically?

Lastly, could you do all of this in 2 weeks? If so, I'm just wondering 
why I don't see more real 'apps' written in Director? In fact, I know of 
no commercial apps written in Director, though I can't say I've looked 
all that hard ;-).

Granted, my last spin w/Director was quite awhile ago, but at that time 
I wasn't sure it could do any of this. Come to think of it, perhaps the 
'Flash Generator' server app (is it still around?) may had much of the 
compositing stuff in it.

In anycase, I would say if Director can do all of this, then hurray for 
Director:-), but it still doesn't diminish the serious imaging 
capabilities of RR.

best,

Chipp


Troy Rollins wrote:


> Don't get me wrong, I'm not down on RR, but I also know Director quite 
> well. ButtonGadget could not only be done in Director without any 
> externals, it would have MANY more options. Director has a full 
> compositing engine based on direct access to C libraries which is, to 
> say the least blazingly fast, and incredibly powerful. Granted, it is an 
> advanced function, and one which you don't often see, but in reality it 
> is no harder than anything else. It is SO fast, that there is no need to 
> render, buttons like buttonGadget produces can be rendered, and animated 
> in real time.


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 12 01:59:27 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:59:27 -0500
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <411B073F.8030200@chipp.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:

> Now my projects don't have flashy vector graphics that spin all around 
> the screen and nauseate people but they use media just the same.  

LOL

I couldn't agree more! It's actually one of my pet peeves with 
Flash...lot's of sizzle, but rarely any content.

-Chipp

From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 12 02:01:25 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 01:01:25 -0500
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408111959510.26551-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408111959510.26551-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <411B07B5.4000809@chipp.com>

Yes Judy, I agree. Though we both do come from a slightly prejudiced 
veiwpoint ;-)

Judy Perry wrote:


> And it also depends upon whose building it.  Learning Director's no
> cakewalk...


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Aug 12 02:12:52 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 23:12:52 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411B073F.8030200@chipp.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<411B073F.8030200@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <A49A8302-EC26-11D8-B662-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 11, 2004, at 10:59 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> Now my projects don't have flashy vector graphics that spin all 
>> around the screen and nauseate people but they use media just the 
>> same.
>
> LOL
>
> I couldn't agree more! It's actually one of my pet peeves with 
> Flash...lot's of sizzle, but rarely any content.

But Chipp, the point of the sizzle is so you don't realize there isn't 
any content ;-)


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 12 02:25:14 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 02:25:14 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <A49A8302-EC26-11D8-B662-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<411B073F.8030200@chipp.com>
	<A49A8302-EC26-11D8-B662-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <5F103EF0-EC28-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 2:12 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

>>
>>> Now my projects don't have flashy vector graphics that spin all 
>>> around the screen and nauseate people but they use media just the 
>>> same.
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> I couldn't agree more! It's actually one of my pet peeves with 
>> Flash...lot's of sizzle, but rarely any content.
>
> But Chipp, the point of the sizzle is so you don't realize there isn't 
> any content ;-)

Revolution has the means somehow to ensure that the content is of 
higher quality than other tools do?

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From tsj at unimelb.edu.au  Thu Aug 12 02:41:57 2004
From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:41:57 +1000
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <20040812055704.3AE849300D8@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040812055704.3AE849300D8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B5133348-EC2A-11D8-8CF0-0003930D06A0@unimelb.edu.au>


On 12/08/2004, at 3:57 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> From: Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com>
> Date: 12 August 2004 3:57:52 PM
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
> Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>
>
> Troy,
>
> Thanks for your comments. Here are some questions.
>
> In Director, can you composite 4 images, one on the top of each other, 
> each with a transparent alpha channel, and export the final single 
> composited image as a PNG with alpha channel intact? I know they can 
> be 'overlayed' on top of each other, but combining them into a single 
> image with the 'sum of the alphas' is quite a different thing. This is 
> not a simple image snapshot I'm talking about.

Director actually has some very nice image editing/creation 
capabilities. Check out the getPixel and setPixel commands. I'm not 
saying Rev can't do the same sort or better (maybe it can, maybe it 
can't) but (and it's been a while since I've visited this site) check 
out some of the stuff at
http://www.setpixel.com

Cheers,

Terry...

Dr Terry Judd
Lecturer in Educational Technology (Design)
Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne

From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 12 02:50:17 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 02:50:17 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 1:57 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> In Director, can you composite 4 images, one on the top of each other, 
> each with a transparent alpha channel, and export the final single 
> composited image as a PNG with alpha channel intact? I know they can 
> be 'overlayed' on top of each other, but combining them into a single 
> image with the 'sum of the alphas' is quite a different thing. This is 
> not a simple image snapshot I'm talking about.

It seems that I'm being backed into a corner. OK. Here we go. Remember, 
you dragged it out of me.

Yes. Easily. With mind-blowing speed. Nothing to do with snapshots. 
Pure image compositing with alpha, additional masks, ink types, and 
much more. Oh, 4 images...? How about 40? 400? in milliseconds. Sum the 
alphas and all. It is no big thing. (Terry GetPixel and SetPixel are 
relatively slow... check out copyPixels()

>
> Can you edit the binary data of a single image?

Yes, you can manipulate individual pixels, with or without alpha. Far 
more easily than you can in Revolution.

>  Can you reset the dpi for an image w/out affecting the size of an 
> image?

I don't know. I've never tried.

>
> And, can you create a standalone application which can be launched by 
> clicking a 'document file' (not the app itself) and load the document 
> file automatically?

Yes. I do it all the time. It is not as straight-forward as Rev, but 
certainly very possible.

>
> Lastly, could you do all of this in 2 weeks?

Oh yes. Other than the DPI thing, I would seriously doubt it would take 
that much time, probably half that. Trust me, the image handling is 
THAT MUCH BETTER. To the point where I can't see what the big deal is. 
Compositing the images and summing the alpha? It is one line of code 
per image.

>  If so, I'm just wondering why I don't see more real 'apps' written in 
> Director? In fact, I know of no commercial apps written in Director, 
> though I can't say I've looked all that hard ;-).

Compared to the hordes written in Revolution you mean? Let's face it, 
there have been hundreds of commercial apps written in Director. 
Though, given the admitted multimedia bent to them, MOST of them are 
educational and activity CD ROMS for kids. But they are on the shelves 
of every computer store in the world as we speak. How many Rev apps 
are?

>
> Granted, my last spin w/Director was quite awhile ago, but at that 
> time I wasn't sure it could do any of this. Come to think of it, 
> perhaps the 'Flash Generator' server app (is it still around?) may had 
> much of the compositing stuff in it.

Has nothing to do with Flash generator or Flash. Imaging Lingo. It is a 
complete library of extremely fast image manipulation tools which tap 
directly into low level libraries, available only in Director. Written 
for Macromedia by Werner Sharp, one of Director's pioneering authors.

>
> In anycase, I would say if Director can do all of this, then hurray 
> for Director:-), but it still doesn't diminish the serious imaging 
> capabilities of RR.
>
IMO it does. Both REALbasic and Director have MUCH better imaging 
capabilities than Rev. VASTLY. Apparently, I am the only one in the 
"conversation" with experience and familiarity (and who owns and uses 
the current version of) all three.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Aug 12 03:11:33 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:11:33 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <5F103EF0-EC28-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<411B073F.8030200@chipp.com>
	<A49A8302-EC26-11D8-B662-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
	<5F103EF0-EC28-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <D7345CE6-EC2E-11D8-B662-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 11, 2004, at 11:25 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>
> Revolution has the means somehow to ensure that the content is of 
> higher quality than other tools do?

Come on Troy, I even added the wink this time :-)  Would you argue that 
Flash is not known as the tool used to create an occasional website or 
two that was more glitz than substance?  This being the case can we not 
poke fun at it once and a while?  Does that mean it is all it is 
capable of?  Of course not.

In my experience Flash works very well from a delivery standpoint for 
web apps that will be delivered in a browser because it enables you to 
create elegant interfaces that aren't reloading every time a request is 
sent to the server (among other things).  The problem lies in the 
development tools.  The Flash authoring environment is severely lacking 
for this type of development (even with MX 2004 "Professional") and in 
my experience with creating web apps in Flash the authoring environment 
was a bottleneck.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From Cubist at aol.com  Thu Aug 12 03:22:33 2004
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 03:22:33 EDT
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
Message-ID: <193.2cf83c9a.2e4c74b9@aol.com>

sez mdswindell at charter.net:
>It seems like the xplat font mess ought to be a high priority for 
>Revolution.  The only solution I saw that seems foolproof is the free 
>Bitstream Vera idea or the fellow who hired his own fontographer and 
>required user installation.
   That reminds me: If anyone out there wishes to pursue the "hire a font 
designer" option... I can do it, and I'm available.

>I really don't get why this issue is insurmountable.
   One: How do you know whether or not [insert arbitrary font here] is 
installed on J. Random User's machine?
   Two: Even if by some miracle you *do* know the *names* of the fonts on J. 
Random User's machine (which, in general, you *won't*), how do you know the 
character widths, X-height, leading, etc etc etc, of those fonts?
   Three: Even if by some other miracle you *do* know the character widths, 
X-height, leading, etc, that are associated with the font-names that are 
installed on J. Random User's machine, how do you know that *his* installed version 
of [insert arbitrary font-name here] has the same character widths, X-height, 
leading, etc, as the version of [insert arbitrary font-name here] that *you* 
know about?
   None of these questions are trivial. If you truly do not perceive the 
difficulty, I'd say that you either (a) are not well-informed on the issue, or (b) 
haven't invested sufficient thought in the issue, or (c) a combination of 
both.

>It seems like the
>kind of thing that leads to bad PR for any creation made with RR that 
>displays poorly on different systems.  Perhaps there needs to be a font
>development effort for inclusion with RR that would ensure xplat 
>compatibility and not cause copyright infringement.  If a program 
>displays like &^#%#g it is perceived as same, and in the final analysis
>that hurts RR and those who develop with it.
   I don't think anyone would disagree that this sort of thing is Not Good; 
the question is, what the heck do you *do* about it? As I pointed out above, it 
is *not* a trivial problem! You *may* be able to count on certain specific 
fonts being universally available on one particular OS (see also: 
Chicago/Charcoal for MacOS), but if you're tryna go xplat...

>Last question showing my ignorance:  Can fonts ever exist and be called
>from within an application itself, or must they reside at the system 
>level and be called from there?
   Yes, they can. While I am blissfully ignorant of the gritty details of How 
To Make It Happen, I know it's possible because there are a number of 
different apps which *do* it (mostly font-type utilities; cataloguers & etc). Perhaps 
someone with actual knowledge of the Gritty Details could chime in with an 
explanation of why this would or wouldn't be a good thing to incorporate into 
the Rev engine?
    _ _ _
  /\_\_\_\   Quentin 'Cubist' Long
 /\/\_\_\_\  Webmaster and co-editor, TSAT netzine
/\/\/\_\_\_\
\/\/\/_/_/_/ tsat.transform.to (main)
 \/\/_/_/_/  tsat.xepher.net (mirror)
  \/_/_/_/

From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 12 03:57:52 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 02:57:52 -0500
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411B2300.7050000@chipp.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:


> It seems that I'm being backed into a corner. OK. Here we go. Remember, 
> you dragged it out of me.

Sorry you feel that way, I'm just asking questions...

> 
> Yes. Easily. With mind-blowing speed. Nothing to do with snapshots. Pure 
> image compositing with alpha, additional masks, ink types, and much 
> more. Oh, 4 images...? How about 40? 400? in milliseconds. Sum the 
> alphas and all. It is no big thing. (Terry GetPixel and SetPixel are 
> relatively slow... check out copyPixels()

Very cool.

>> Lastly, could you do all of this in 2 weeks?
> 
> 
> Oh yes. Other than the DPI thing, I would seriously doubt it would take 
> that much time, probably half that. Trust me, the image handling is THAT 
> MUCH BETTER. To the point where I can't see what the big deal is. 
> Compositing the images and summing the alpha? It is one line of code per 
> image.

Good to know. I wish it was that easy in RR.

> 
>>  If so, I'm just wondering why I don't see more real 'apps' written in 
>> Director? In fact, I know of no commercial apps written in Director, 
>> though I can't say I've looked all that hard ;-).
> 
> 
> Compared to the hordes written in Revolution you mean? Let's face it, 
> there have been hundreds of commercial apps written in Director. Though, 
> given the admitted multimedia bent to them, MOST of them are educational 
> and activity CD ROMS for kids. But they are on the shelves of every 
> computer store in the world as we speak. How many Rev apps are?

Troy, I'm talking Applications, not multimedia projects. Heck, at Human 
Code we created tons of award winning multimedia/game CD's using 
Director-- and put them on plenty of store shelves, for folks like 
Discovery Channel, Disney, Hasbro and others. I know *multimedia* works 
in Director.

Seriously, can you point me to a couple of commercial 'applications' 
built in Director? Especially image editing desktop applications. I'd 
really like to take a look at them, as I'm sure they'd offer me new 
insights regarding image editting.

Frankly, considering Director has an installed base at least an order of 
magnitude larger than Revolution, I would expect there to be some 
commercial apps available (not multimedia apps). Seems to me, there 
should be a number of image editors available with all of that power. I 
tried searching the Director forum, but couldn't find any...perhaps I 
used the wrong search terms.

There was this one really cool Director app, I forget the name, but it 
built CD covers and graphic design layouts automatically. Unfortunately 
there was no way to save it, but it was really, really inspiring. I 
think it was called 'nextGen' or something like that, can't remember. 
Perhaps you saw it?

I can point you to commercial apps written in Rev, (including yours), 
but I assume you know what/who they are. You of course chose to write 
your latest app in Rev rather than RB or Director. Perhaps the basis for 
that choice could lend some valuable perspective to this discussion.


>> In anycase, I would say if Director can do all of this, then hurray 
>> for Director:-), but it still doesn't diminish the serious imaging 
>> capabilities of RR.
>>
> IMO it does. Both REALbasic and Director have MUCH better imaging 
> capabilities than Rev. VASTLY. Apparently, I am the only one in the 
> "conversation" with experience and familiarity (and who owns and uses 
> the current version of) all three.

Troy, perhaps you can be more specific rather than 'VASTLY'? It might 
help to define 'areas of improvement' for Rev and it's engine 
capabilities. Certainly, anti-aliased graphics are a place to start.

I have yet to find an imaging task which I want to do which can't be 
done in Revolution, though I'm certain there are some. I've created a 
program ImageGadget
<http://www.altuit.com/webs/hemingway/HemTools/ImageGadget.htm>
which allows me to build banners by importing and layering images and 
type, using custom alpha effects. I've created screen capture apps and 
ButtonGadget. I'm just looking for similar apps written in Director or RB.

Just so I'm clear, I'm not attacking Director's image handling 
capabilities, in fact you've identified some things it does very well. I 
am just pointing out Revolution has some fine tools itself for building 
image editting apps.

Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge of the other 
products. It's always good to know what other products can do, as it 
helps us understand where we can 'get better.' I think conversations 
like this are helpful for us all.

-Chipp

From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Thu Aug 12 04:51:13 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:51:13 +0200
Subject: memory - why isn't it getting freed
In-Reply-To: <4DD1604F-EBBB-11D8-8353-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
References: <4DD1604F-EBBB-11D8-8353-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <a06110423bd40de5ec819@[141.89.100.235]>

I did not mean to imply that Valentina's cache keeps growing. I had 
once a situation where there was a memory leak as a result of some 
weird interaction between MetaCard and Valentina. I had a field in a 
window that was displaying live log of on-going activities. If 
valentina was off, all was fine. If valentina was on, updating that 
field was leaking memory (and the field had a fixed number of lines 
displayed, for each added at the end, one was deleted at top). I 
ended up eliminating all live updates of log fields. Truly strange. 
The leak was definitely on the MetaCard's side but under no other 
circumstances I managed to reproduce it otherwise (and I really tried 
as I wanted Scott to fix it) and even in that program changing some 
unrelated scripts would trigger this behavior on and off. There was 
aparently some strange memory fragmentation occuring that was 
resulting in MetaCard acquiring more and more of it.

Robert


>Chris,
>
>Also probably worth noting- with Valentina you can control the size 
>of the cache, so if your data is small and you want to conserve 
>memory, you can always make the cache smaller. Otherwise, shutting 
>down the database is actually a pretty normal way to dispose of a 
>cache- most databases want to keep the cache big and persistent to 
>increase performance and so releasing the cache is actually one of 
>the primary purposes of a shutdown method (other than closing 
>connections to database files).
>
>FWIW.
>
>>Thanks, Robert.  I was able to make a called to Valentina("Shutdown"), and
>>that will at least clear my cache. Then I'm able to reinitialize the
>>Valentina kernel after that.
>>
>>Strange behavior going on here, but at least there's a workaround, for which
>>I'm very grateful.  I was having much stress over this one. :-)
>-------------------------------------
>Brian Yennie
>Chief Technology Officer
>QLD Learning, LLC
>(941)-928-7127
>briany at qldlearning.com
>--------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Aug 12 07:46:21 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:46:21 +0200
Subject: Quit in Mac OS X
Message-ID: <3B03ED0E-EC55-11D8-9668-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>

Hi list


I come with an old known problem but I can't find my right way :

on Mac OS X, when I choose in a standAlone "Quit <myAppName> from the 
application menu, which menu Message is sent to the Engine ???

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Thu Aug 12 08:01:15 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:01:15 +0200
Subject: Quit in Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <3B03ED0E-EC55-11D8-9668-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <501E1A84-EC57-11D8-AA1D-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>

Hi Yves,

the answer is: shutdownRequest

Thierry.

On Thursday, Aug 12, 2004, at 13:46 Europe/Paris, Yves COPPE wrote:

> Hi list
>
>
> I come with an old known problem but I can't find my right way :
>
> on Mac OS X, when I choose in a standAlone "Quit <myAppName> from the 
> application menu, which menu Message is sent to the Engine ???
>
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Thu Aug 12 08:19:14 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 05:19:14 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <BD4040AF.6E75%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <BD40AE52.6E9F%moe2@shaw.ca>


i would sure appreciate someone pointing out the script that would correctly
check and uncheck all seven menu items as illustrated in the Documentation

i found this in the Search Documentation by typing in  "menus and the menu
bar"
selecting topic   "About menus and the menu bar"
and in the sixth line of the text, clicking the hotText "submenus"

these are the four menuItems of ONE menu that are displayed,
and Alignment has 3 cascading menuItems: left, center, right

   Format
   Alignment
   Size
   Style

the documentation script to check and uncheck the menu items does not work
(for me) for Size and Style (those menuItems after a cascading menuItem)


here are all of the methods from the documentation:

on menuPick theItem
 put the menuHistory of me into myItemNumber
 if char 1 to 2 of line myItemNumber of me is "!c"
 then delete char 1 to 2 of line myItemNumber of me
 else put "!c" before line myItemNumber of me

 repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in me
   if char 1 to 2 of line x of me is "!c"
   then delete char 1 to 2 of line x of me
 end repeat
 put "!c" before line myItemNumber of me

 put the currentCheckedLine of me into oldLine
 delete char 1 to 2 of line oldLine of me
 put "!c" before line myItemNumber of me
 set the currentCheckedLine of me to myItemNumber
end menuPick

your help is appreciated

moe





From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Aug 12 09:17:34 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:17:34 +0200
Subject: woah! 
In-Reply-To: <501E1A84-EC57-11D8-AA1D-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEIPGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

http://www.bit-101.com

you have to see this...

his demos are not only super numerous but with code and most are quite
amazing!

in flash... but it doesn't stop us from being inspired or to know what we're
up
against....

cheers
Xavier


From howard.bornstein at gmail.com  Thu Aug 12 09:22:26 2004
From: howard.bornstein at gmail.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:22:26 -0400
Subject: Way to print contents of scrolling group?
In-Reply-To: <561E2EBA-EB14-11D8-AB14-000A95909E26@aol.com>
References: <561E2EBA-EB14-11D8-AB14-000A95909E26@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3f07cc26040812062255df3d69@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:27:11 EDT, rgould8 at aol.com <rgould8 at aol.com> wrote:
> I've got a group of objects that are grouped together within a scrolling
> group object on a card, and I'd like to print the contents of that
> group, even though it's not all visible on the screen at once?   Is this possible
> in Rev?  All the parameters for the print command appear to be card and
> stack-related, not object-related.

You can do this by expanding the group to its full size (even if it's
larger than the screen rect) and using a script on Ken Ray's website
called "How to Export a Card Image"
(http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/metacard/tips/imag007.htm). This
will export the full image to a graphic file which you can then print.

I've done this with a very large group (3000 X 3000 pixels). It's a
little tricky if you don't want the user to see the expansion of the
group. You have to use judicious placement of Lock/Unlock screen
commands. However, if you put them in the wrong place, you'll get a
black image for anything larger than the screen rect.

-- 
Regards,

Howard Bornstein
-----------------------
www.designeq.com

From sw at wordtech-software.com  Thu Aug 12 09:24:02 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:24:02 -0400
Subject: Price of Rev Studio?
Message-ID: <411B6F72.7070909@wordtech-software.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Is Rev Studio $299 or $399? The Rev website says $299, but the RevCon
Europe conference website says that Rev's usual retail price is $399 and
it will be specially discounted at the conference. Or is there a price
increase in the works? Just curious.

- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBG29xF6m9qPmThLQRAlC2AJ4xeS5NOtI/P2LdPxF6EYvSDaxK7ACfaap6
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From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Thu Aug 12 09:39:44 2004
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:39:44 -0400
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040812005059.C75659300B3@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040812005059.C75659300B3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <12109D5E-EC65-11D8-AB83-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>

Hello everyone,

Hope I'm not taking this too far off topic.  Shout me down if I am.

I agree with Richard.  I would go considerably further and say that 
web-based interactive learning materials have not lived up to their 
hype.  My rule of thumb is to use the Internet to (1) make getting and 
sharing information convenient for students and (2) deploy learning 
vehicles only if they involve interactions among them.

After fifteen years of tinkering with this at the University of 
Toronto, McGill, and Concordia, this is what I've found (based on 
responses from thousands of students) for (1) and (2):

(1) Biggest bang for the buck comes from having an web site or FTP site 
where they have access to well-written and well-designed PDF notes, 
exercises, and timely feedback on their progress, which they can 
actually print on old fashioned paper, take to the coffee shop, discuss 
with classmates, and especially grapple with.  They use the Internet to 
go in, get the stuff, and get out as quickly as possible.  No muss, no 
fuss, no being tied to a throbbing screen that may precipitate an 
epileptic seizure.

(2) Another big bang comes from an online experimental stock market I 
run called Borsa.  Here interaction is the essence of it as students 
are trading with one another.  Their actions yield feedback, data is 
collected, and this can be downloaded and explored at the end of each 
market session.  I would like to port it from FileMaker to Rev, but I 
haven't found enough time yet to play with Rev as a CGI, to learn how 
to create tokens, etc.  Other examples include things like the 
Ultimatum game, auctions, surveys, and anything where the decision, 
choice, or action of one is viewed and reacted to by others, and where 
the resulting data can be shared and explored.

My rule: if it can be done as a solitary activity as simulations, 
interactive tutorials, presentations, data analysis (including tapping 
into the Internet to gather data via web services or some other way), 
then make standalone courseware that can be used on the desktop; if it 
involves interactions among people, then use the Internet (you pretty 
much have to!).

All this, in my mind, bodes well for Rev as a courseware design tool.  
Unfortunately, most of what I see from academics who mess around with 
technology in teaching, amounts to simplistic web-based animations.  To 
get an idea of the prevalence of this, simply "google" any topic topic, 
for example, "normal distribution", and you will find many 
professor-run sites that offer simulations of bell curves: click a 
button, generate random numbers, graph them.  Similar examples can be 
found for junior and secondary education.  The question is not whether 
there is educational merit in simulating the distributions (although I 
would submit that it is marginal unless the student is required to 
participate a good deal more than just clicking a button repeatedly), 
it is whether it could be done better on the desktop in the form of 
standalone courseware.  I contend that the answer is almost always yes.

	Gregory
	__________________________
	Associate Professor of Finance
	John Molson School of Business
	Concordia University
	Montreal, Quebec
	Canada


On Aug 11, 2004, at 8:50 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> The Web can be fine for relatively simple presentations, but is limited
> for more sophisticated interactions.


From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Aug 12 09:41:48 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 06:41:48 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411B073F.8030200@chipp.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<411B073F.8030200@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <5C23C456-EC65-11D8-A038-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

In fact, the whole Flash intro thing led to a very famous Web site, 
whose beauty and sarcasm may have been lost to the latest generation of 
designers:

http://www.skipintro.com

Be sure you're someplace where you can let sound rip.

:-D

dan

On Aug 11, 2004, at 10:59 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> Now my projects don't have flashy vector graphics that spin all 
>> around the screen and nauseate people but they use media just the 
>> same.
>
> LOL
>
> I couldn't agree more! It's actually one of my pet peeves with 
> Flash...lot's of sizzle, but rarely any content.
>
> -Chipp
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Aug 12 09:49:21 2004
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 06:49:21 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <6A20C3BB-EC66-11D8-B15F-000A95A872D6@inspiredlogic.com>

Is there a document you can point to as part of a feature request?

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com

On Aug 11, 2004, at 11:50 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> Oh yes. Other than the DPI thing, I would seriously doubt it would 
> take that much time, probably half that. Trust me, the image handling 
> is THAT MUCH BETTER. To the point where I can't see what the big deal 
> is. Compositing the images and summing the alpha? It is one line of 
> code per image.


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 12 09:50:16 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:50:16 -0400
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <12109D5E-EC65-11D8-AB83-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>
References: <20040812005059.C75659300B3@mail.runrev.com>
	<12109D5E-EC65-11D8-AB83-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <8A7E3FFD-EC66-11D8-8244-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Now THAT is an excellent summary. Thanks, Greg.

M
On Aug 12, 2004, at 9:39 AM, Gregory Lypny wrote:

> My rule: if it can be done as a solitary activity as simulations, 
> interactive tutorials, presentations, data analysis (including tapping 
> into the Internet to gather data via web services or some other way), 
> then make standalone courseware that can be used on the desktop; if it 
> involves interactions among people, then use the Internet (you pretty 
> much have to!).


From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Aug 12 09:55:06 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 06:55:06 -0700
Subject: woah! 
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEIPGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEIPGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <376A1F22-EC67-11D8-A038-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Pretty interesting experiments. I found the use of multiple draggable 
windows in side a browser window to be a bit reminiscent of Windows' 
outdated MDI approach and a little dissonant for my taste, but the fact 
that he could do that in a browser was pretty impressive.

Dan

On Aug 12, 2004, at 6:17 AM, MisterX wrote:

> http://www.bit-101.com
>
> you have to see this...
>
> his demos are not only super numerous but with code and most are quite
> amazing!
>
> in flash... but it doesn't stop us from being inspired or to know what 
> we're
> up
> against....
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Thu Aug 12 10:09:18 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:09:18 +0200
Subject: Price of Rev Studio?
In-Reply-To: <411B6F72.7070909@wordtech-software.com>
References: <411B6F72.7070909@wordtech-software.com>
Message-ID: <p06110405bd4129a39a64@[10.0.0.2]>

>Is Rev Studio $299 or $399? The Rev website says $299, but the RevCon
>Europe conference website says that Rev's usual retail price is $399 and
>it will be specially discounted at the conference. Or is there a price
>increase in the works? Just curious.

I am waiting  for new price changes from Rev and will adjust the 
RevCon web site
appropriately. The changes *should* reflect a savings comparable to the
savings shown above.

atb
sims


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 12 10:36:51 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:36:51 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <5C23C456-EC65-11D8-A038-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <0CEDA758-EC6D-11D8-ADB1-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Thursday, August 12, 2004, at 06:41 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> In fact, the whole Flash intro thing led to a very famous Web site, 
> whose beauty and sarcasm may have been lost to the latest generation 
> of designers:
>
> http://www.skipintro.com
>
> Be sure you're someplace where you can let sound rip.
>
> :-D
>
> dan


Wow! Happy surfing to you too.

Now for all you MTML fans here's a vector based interface that does 
have content. It's a 50kbt browser. I've been boring people with this 
MTML experiment for years.

Take the tour: http://www.gizmotron.org/mtml/showtour.html

Requires shockwave and will ask you to install textCruncher when it 
first runs.

Mark


From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 12 10:58:35 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:58:35 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411B2300.7050000@chipp.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B2300.7050000@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <15DA2AA2-EC70-11D8-BE22-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 3:57 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Troy, I'm talking Applications, not multimedia projects. Heck, at 
> Human Code we created tons of award winning multimedia/game CD's using 
> Director-- and put them on plenty of store shelves, for folks like 
> Discovery Channel, Disney, Hasbro and others. I know *multimedia* 
> works in Director.

But you see, I'm not talking about "applications" or "multimedia", I'm 
talking about functions. I have no debate about Rev's ability to 
produce applications - as you said, one of my own commercial apps is 
written in Rev, and I don't regret it. Director is MUCH harder to get 
to produce "applications" that look and behave like "applications."

> I can point you to commercial apps written in Rev, (including yours), 
> but I assume you know what/who they are. You of course chose to write 
> your latest app in Rev rather than RB or Director. Perhaps the basis 
> for that choice could lend some valuable perspective to this 
> discussion.

Sure. It was because I knew the project only had light imaging 
functionality required, and otherwise no "multimedia" functions. It is 
a visual application to be sure, but it does not have high imaging 
demands. However, it needed to look and behave like an "application." 
Rev fits the bill very well for my product. For those of you who have 
no idea what I'm referring to (just look at the page, don't bother 
downloading the app unless you own a professional MPEG2 player)

<http://www.rpsystems.net/fathom>

> Seriously, can you point me to a couple of commercial 'applications' 
> built in Director? Especially image editing desktop applications. I'd 
> really like to take a look at them, as I'm sure they'd offer me new 
> insights regarding image editting.

Here's one -

<http://www.macxware.com/candypress/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=26>

As you can see, it even uses multiple windows and native controls. I 
pity the poor soul who managed that part. I've done it, and it isn't 
fun.... see this -

<http://www.rpsystems.net/streamlogger>

Which is one of my own. Written in Director, has some imaging, saves 
files, looks and works like an application, etc.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Aug 12 11:04:06 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:04:06 +0200
Subject: Rep : Quit in Mac OS X
Message-ID: <DB510CB9-EC70-11D8-8EF2-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>

Hi Pierre,

I have a main stack used as a splashcreen and substacks

where have I to place the shutdonwrequest ??

I have placed it in a substacks

when I open my standAlone and close it afterwards immediately, it works
when I opern mu standAlone and open afterwards others substacks, work 
with the app and then choose "quitter <my app>" (French System) in the 
application menu, the message is not sent and the app merely quit 
without the script in the shutdown message

Thank you for your help.

Amicalement.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu Aug 12 11:47:26 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:47:26 -0600
Subject: OS X Standalone (mis)behavior
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOEFAEOAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOEFAEOAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <E92F8FF6-EC76-11D8-88CF-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Monte,

Now I've heard others have had it, I'll try to come up with a recipe 
and then bugzilla it.

Devin

On Aug 11, 2004, at 5:10 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>
>>> Any ideas? Maybe I'm doing something wrong when I am building the
>>> standalone under 2.2?
>>
>> I've seen the zooming-without-launching effect too. I have no idea if
>> this has been identified and logged with bugzilla though.
>
> No it hasn't. There are only two bugs on the standalone builder and 
> both are
> PENDING. Without wishing to sound rude, it's a little frustrating to 
> see
> "I've seen that too" posts when a bug is discussed on the list and 
> still
> nothing in bugzilla. Please post to bugzilla so we can keep a record 
> of the
> issue. I'm not sure I have enough info to fix this yet though...
>
> Cheers
>
> --
>   Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
>   Sweat Technologies
>
>   InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
>   http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From mdswindell at charter.net  Thu Aug 12 11:52:08 2004
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:52:08 -0700
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <193.2cf83c9a.2e4c74b9@aol.com>
References: <193.2cf83c9a.2e4c74b9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9139CA87-EC77-11D8-9395-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>

On Aug 12, 2004, at 12:22 AM, Cubist at aol.com wrote:

> I really don't get why this issue is insurmountable.

>    None of these questions are trivial. If you truly do not perceive 
> the
> difficulty, I'd say that you either (a) are not well-informed on the 
> issue, or (b)
> haven't invested sufficient thought in the issue, or (c) a combination 
> of
> both.

First, I used the word insurmountable, not trivial.  Worlds apart in 
meaning and implication.  I also said I think solving this very "in 
your face" problem should be a priority.  It is a problem common to all 
who create with Rev in any platform.

I then suggested two ways that "might" make this thorn in the side more 
manageable:

1) Revolution itself investing in and distributing a limited number of 
font faces which would be identical across platforms (requiring 
individuals to hire fontographers on their own is not viable).

2) Revolution providing a mechanism for these fonts, as needed, to 
reside within the standalone and be called from there.

It appears the former has been shown to work for some users.  You seem 
to be saying that latter option might be legitimate, too, but like you 
I am ignorant of how it might happen.

While you would be correct in saying that I am (c) a combination of not 
well-informed and without having invested a lot of thought in the 
issue, I'm ok with that.  It's not an area I feel I should need to 
become expert.  I do feel Rev users of any skill level deserve a simple 
(to the user), upfront solution to what seems to be a plaguing problem 
that is not being addressed systemically from  within the Rev 
environment.

Mark


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu Aug 12 12:12:54 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:12:54 -0600
Subject: Educational uses for Rev (was Re: Plea to sell Dan's book
	widely)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408111145370.19133-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408111145370.19133-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <77A3041E-EC7A-11D8-88CF-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Hi folks,

I've been following the discussion about Rev as a tool for educational 
s/w development. One of the perhaps overlooked uses of Rev in the 
educational setting is as an easy-to-learn, non-threatening environment 
for teaching programming concepts to non-techies. We teach just such a 
course and made the decision back in the v. 1.0 days to make the change 
to Revolution. We've negotiated the minefields of buggy early releases, 
and today, starting our fourth year of teaching Rev, we're pretty happy 
with it. It's allowed us to better utilize our teaching and classroom 
resources.

At the same time Rev provided us a way to migrate our older HyperCard 
and Toolbook custom apps to a new, single-track code base. We are not 
primarily concerned with producing marketable educational software 
(although we will do so if a demand emerges), but mainly with producing 
and maintaining software for the use of our foreign langauge and 
humanities students here in house.

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Aug 12 12:21:51 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:21:51 -0700
Subject: woah!
In-Reply-To: <376A1F22-EC67-11D8-A038-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEIPGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
	<376A1F22-EC67-11D8-A038-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <411B991F.7080301@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> Pretty interesting experiments. I found the use of multiple draggable 
> windows in side a browser window to be a bit reminiscent of Windows' 
> outdated MDI approach and a little dissonant for my taste, but the fact 
> that he could do that in a browser was pretty impressive.

And trivial in an xTalk plugin.  Almost a decade ago I made a drawing 
app in SuperCard's Roadster plugin.  While I don't think there's as much 
value in making a Rev plugin as there would be in exporting Java 
bytecode, making that sort of thing in an xTalk is a snap, so easy it 
would hardly be worth posting on its flourish value alone. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Aug 12 12:26:20 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:26:20 -0700
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <9139CA87-EC77-11D8-9395-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
References: <193.2cf83c9a.2e4c74b9@aol.com>
	<9139CA87-EC77-11D8-9395-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
Message-ID: <411B9A2C.50403@fourthworld.com>

Mark Swindell wrote:
> I then suggested two ways that "might" make this thorn in the side more 
> manageable:
> 
> 1) Revolution itself investing in and distributing a limited number of 
> font faces which would be identical across platforms (requiring 
> individuals to hire fontographers on their own is not viable).

How many app designers want to ignore the standard fonts for all target 
platforms to use a typeface standard to none?

For the subset of cases where that might be useful there are free fonts 
available; I have a loooooooooooong list of things I'd like to see 
RunRev do before they also become a type foundry.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 12 12:40:58 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:40:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Way to print contents of scrolling group?
In-Reply-To: <ce.546fc54b.2e4a97af@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040812164058.26627.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>

--- RGould8 at aol.com wrote:
> I've got a group of objects that are grouped
> together within a scrolling 
> group object on a card, and I'd like to print the
> contents of that group, even 
> though it's not all visible on the screen at once?  
> Is this possible in Rev?   
> All the parameters for the print command appear to
> be card and stack-related, 
> not object-related.
> 

Hava a close look at the 'print' command ; the 'into
rectangle' form allows you to print something into a
specific part of the page that will come out of the
printer.

Suppose you have a scrolling group that is 600 pixels
high and 400 pixels wide ; then you could do something
like :
--
set the vScroll of group "Foobar" to 0
print from the topleft of group "Foobar" to the
bottomright of group "Foobar" into 0,0,400,300
set the vScroll of group "Foobar" to 300
print from the topleft of group "Foobar" to the
bottomright of group "Foobar" into 0,300,400,600
--

You may have to fiddle a bit, bit this should be the
general way of doing it.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Aug 12 12:45:19 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:45:19 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <BF80AF82-EC00-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com> <411AC551.5000909@fourthworld.com>
	<BF80AF82-EC00-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411B9E9F.3020202@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:
> On Aug 11, 2004, at 9:18 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> I just had a meeting this morning with a new client who produces three 
>> multimedia CD-ROM products a year using Director, who's very excited 
>> about moving into the faster production workflow and multimedia 
>> performance he finds with Rev (apparently Director has a tough time 
>> being graceful under Quartz, and a lot of his customers as OS X users).
>
> With all due respect, this simply isn't true. Well, I'm sure it is true 
> insomuch as your client believes it, but, they are wrong. I program in 
> Director, under quartz. Its graphics performance is certainly graceful 
> under quartz.

Don't shoot the messenger.  I haven't touched Director since I walked 
away from it more than five years ago.  I'm just reporting what my 
client tells me.  As a long-time professional developer with many 
Director-based products under his belt, he has contacts within both 
Apple and Macromedia and if he has a tech issue he can usually get an 
answer pronto.  He tells me he wasn't satisfied with the answer he got 
on this issue, and is excited about what Rev will do not only for his 
products' performance but with the production workflow as well.

There are no doubt specifics at play here that could be worked 
differently to improve performance, but for him those specifics appear 
to be more cost-effectively dealt with by hiring me to set him up with a 
good toolkit than to wrestle with MMD any further.

It may well be the case that his contacts at Macromedia and Apple are 
wrong, as you suggest.  But it may also be the case that he knows what 
he's doing for his circumstances, and judging from the long train of 
successes behind him I'm inclined to believe the latter.

Your mileage may vary; contents may settle during shipping.


BTW: Does MMD still have the logo requirement for products built with 
it, or has it joined Coder Warrior, XCode, and Rev in requiring only a 
"portions copyright" string in the About box?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 12 12:48:46 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:48:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: dBase lib
In-Reply-To: <20040811115158.F177930AB4@mail.rtl.org>
Message-ID: <20040812164846.90142.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dave LeYanna <dleyanna at rtl.org> wrote:
> I know that is one way to do it but I wanted native
> access (direct file
> access) because of difficulties in setting up ODBC
> on client desktops and
> the problems with mixed OS environments.
> 
> Thanks for your help. This may be the way that I
> have to go...
> 
> Dave 
> 

Hi Dave,

Though the file format itself is not overly
complicated and well documented online, the hard part
is creating the actual database engine that would
parse your SQL commands and spit out the result of
your SELECT.
The ODBC driver takes care of all that ; and with
Valentina, MySQL, PostgreSQL and other databases
natively supported, hardly anyone will see the need to
write a native driver for dBase files -- now if this
had been 8 years ago...

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 12 13:30:38 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:30:38 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411B9E9F.3020202@fourthworld.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com> <411AC551.5000909@fourthworld.com>
	<BF80AF82-EC00-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B9E9F.3020202@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <53DDA768-EC85-11D8-BE22-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 12:45 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Don't shoot the messenger.

Oh, I'm not.

And, I'm not "all about Director" either, BTW. But, the product is a 
pretty powerful and viable one. Rev is amazing, but try as this list 
might, it is NOT the be-all end-all in all categories. It can be easily 
outperformed in image processing.

I'd be very interested to hear in what way Revolution outperforms 
Director graphically, under quartz, or any other Director supported OS. 
I just can't see that happening under *any* circumstances. I use these 
tools daily. This is not second hand knowledge, list archives, or web 
site reading. It is practical experience, by an experienced developer, 
using the current versions of the tools.

> BTW: Does MMD still have the logo requirement for products built with 
> it, or has it joined Coder Warrior, XCode, and Rev in requiring only a 
> "portions copyright" string in the About box?

Actually, they have eliminated all requirements of that nature 
altogether for anything designed with DMX2004.

All I ever said on the subject was that Imaging is not (yet) one of 
Rev's strong suits, yet somehow I get put in the position of defending 
Director as having capabilities beyond Revolution's - which I can 
assure you, in certain particular areas, it does - so the defense is 
not that difficult, requiring only the truth. These areas may, or may 
not be, important to the work of the list members, or those reading the 
archives to determine Rev's suitability for their own work. In *some* 
of my work, it is important. This is the reason I even ever mentioned 
it, I'd like to see Rev be more capable in this regard, so that I don't 
have to maintain knowledge in several IDEs to accomplish my goals.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Aug 12 13:41:13 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:41:13 +0200
Subject: Rep : Quit in Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <DB510CB9-EC70-11D8-8EF2-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
References: <DB510CB9-EC70-11D8-8EF2-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <CDEA4AC5-EC86-11D8-A4C2-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hello Yves,

Along a cool Jeff Beck's  winyle is playing here all over the house...

I didn't have to deal with this so i'm not sure to be able to be handy 
and went directly to the list archives to see how friends are trapping 
such kind of events. Thanks to all of them ;)

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2003-January/003689.html>
and
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-December/003368.html>

It seems to have to do with how OS X trap the quit appleevent message 
that Rev send to the system when pulling down the quit item.

Hope this can help :D

Best, Pierre


Le 12 ao?t 04, ? 17:04, Yves COPPE a ?crit :

> Hi Pierre,
>
> I have a main stack used as a splashcreen and substacks
>
> where have I to place the shutdonwrequest ??
>
> I have placed it in a substacks
>
> when I open my standAlone and close it afterwards immediately, it works
> when I opern mu standAlone and open afterwards others substacks, work 
> with the app and then choose "quitter <my app>" (French System) in the 
> application menu, the message is not sent and the app merely quit 
> without the script in the shutdown message
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> Amicalement.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Aug 12 13:46:02 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:46:02 +0200
Subject: Rep : Quit in Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <CDEA4AC5-EC86-11D8-A4C2-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
References: <DB510CB9-EC70-11D8-8EF2-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<CDEA4AC5-EC86-11D8-A4C2-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <7A7BD9F8-EC87-11D8-8AF5-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>


Le 12-ao?t-04, ? 19:41, Pierre Sahores a ?crit :

> Hello Yves,
>
> Along a cool Jeff Beck's  winyle is playing here all over the house...
>
>

Hi Klaus,

superstition !!!!

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 12 13:55:07 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:55:07 +0200
Subject: Rep : Quit in Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <7A7BD9F8-EC87-11D8-8AF5-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
References: <DB510CB9-EC70-11D8-8EF2-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<CDEA4AC5-EC86-11D8-A4C2-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<7A7BD9F8-EC87-11D8-8AF5-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <BEF4C0E4-EC88-11D8-91E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bon soir Yves,

> Le 12-ao?t-04, ? 19:41, Pierre Sahores a ?crit :
>> Hello Yves,
>>
>> Along a cool Jeff Beck's  winyle is playing here all over the house...

Beck-O-La?

> Hi Klaus,
>
> superstition !!!!

Mon ami, je ne suis pas Pierre!
:-D

Mais j'aime la musique de Jeff B. aussi :-)

> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Thu Aug 12 13:59:57 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:59:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <193.2cf83c9a.2e4c74b9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408121056080.10655-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Okay, Cubist, I'm gonna make plain my ignorance on the issue in hopes you
can help  me understand why ...

One cannot use, say, Trebuchet MS and Comic Sans MS (standard installs
on both PC and Macs I think) reasonably reliably.

These are kinda plain-vanilla types of fonts.  I'm aware that there
probably won't be complete crossplatform fidelity, but, on the whole,
shouldn't they work with remarkably little nudging?

My project used these, and they worked tolerably well on both platforms
until about half way through...

Judy

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 Cubist at aol.com wrote:

>    None of these questions are trivial. If you truly do not perceive the
> difficulty, I'd say that you either (a) are not well-informed on the issue, or (b)
> haven't invested sufficient thought in the issue, or (c) a combination of
> both.


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Thu Aug 12 14:05:48 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:05:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <12109D5E-EC65-11D8-AB83-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408121103030.10655-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Thanks, Gregory, for this insight.

I find it particularly interesting given that I just finished a master's
in instructional design & technology... in which the mantra seemed to be
"web uber alles".  And, like you, I tended to disagree.

I think the problem with the web uber alles folks is that they do not
possess the ability (much less the interest, I guess) of producing
standalone interactive courseware.  So what we get is alot of form
trumping function.

A pity...

Judy

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Gregory Lypny wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Hope I'm not taking this too far off topic.  Shout me down if I am.
>
> I agree with Richard.  I would go considerably further and say that
> web-based interactive learning materials have not lived up to their
> hype.  My rule of thumb is to use the Internet to (1) make getting and
> sharing information convenient for students and (2) deploy learning
> vehicles only if they involve interactions among them.


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Aug 12 14:30:09 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:30:09 +0200
Subject: woah! 
In-Reply-To: <376A1F22-EC67-11D8-A038-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEJDGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

im so impressed by this guy...

he commands, shape, color, physics, animation smoothness totally...

he's even hilarious with the spiders...

I spent almost a whole day on his site. Haven't done that since...
the NASA Drysden airbase gallery discovery or www.thejackytouch.com
or the NASA daily picture exploration...

Anyone heard of a good fla[sh] file format source/parser lately?

;)


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug 12 14:23:28 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:23:28 -0500
Subject: Gray background only visible on printing
In-Reply-To: <BD3FF710.24A9%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD3FF710.24A9%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <411BB5A0.6090809@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/11/04 3:17 PM, Bill wrote:

> I am creating my own printing stack. The built-in print commands are not
> versatile enough. But my simple gripe is that any stack should have the same
> things visible on the screen as what prints when you say: "print card"
> unless you specifically tell it to hide or change something on printing. At
> least that is my opinion. I was very surprised to find that the default
> background for all stacks which appears white is actually gray when printed.
> I think it is non-intuitive and should be fixed by RunRev unless there is
> some reason for it. If there is a reason I would like to know what it is --
> please!
> 
> But basically setting the background of any stack you are using to white
> solves the problem but doesn't make me feel any better ; )

Sounds like a good case for a Bugzilla report. Why not enter one so that 
the team can fix it? It seems like a reasonable request to me.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From dleyanna at rtl.org  Thu Aug 12 14:26:47 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:26:47 -0400
Subject: dBase lib
In-Reply-To: <20040812164846.90142.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040812182233.8216530AB4@mail.rtl.org>

Points well taken, none the less...

Let me take a different approach here. How about creating libs (not an
external) that have functions like open, close, set order to, seek, append,
delete, pack, get, put and so on. The tables are in use now I just want to
use Rev as a front end without ODBC. However if nothing like this exists I
suppose that I'll have to decide if I want to take the time to make it (not
likely) or not use Rev as the front end. I wonder about Python...

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jan Schenkel
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:49 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: RE: dBase lib

--- Dave LeYanna <dleyanna at rtl.org> wrote:
> I know that is one way to do it but I wanted native access (direct 
> file
> access) because of difficulties in setting up ODBC on client desktops 
> and the problems with mixed OS environments.
> 
> Thanks for your help. This may be the way that I have to go...
> 
> Dave
> 

Hi Dave,

Though the file format itself is not overly
complicated and well documented online, the hard part
is creating the actual database engine that would
parse your SQL commands and spit out the result of
your SELECT.
The ODBC driver takes care of all that ; and with
Valentina, MySQL, PostgreSQL and other databases
natively supported, hardly anyone will see the need to
write a native driver for dBase files -- now if this
had been 8 years ago...

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."
(La Rochefoucauld)


		
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From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Aug 12 14:33:34 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:33:34 +0200
Subject: Rep : Quit in Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <BEF4C0E4-EC88-11D8-91E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <DB510CB9-EC70-11D8-8EF2-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<CDEA4AC5-EC86-11D8-A4C2-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<7A7BD9F8-EC87-11D8-8AF5-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<BEF4C0E4-EC88-11D8-91E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1E7DD1C9-EC8E-11D8-B0D9-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>


Le 12-ao?t-04, ? 19:55, Klaus Major a ?crit :

> Bon soir Yves,
>
>> Le 12-ao?t-04, ? 19:41, Pierre Sahores a ?crit :
>>> Hello Yves,
>>>
>>> Along a cool Jeff Beck's  winyle is playing here all over the 
>>> house...
>
> Beck-O-La?
>
>> Hi Klaus,
>>
>> superstition !!!!
>
> Mon ami, je ne suis pas Pierre!
> :-D
>
> Mais j'aime la musique de Jeff B. aussi :-)
>

sorry, Pierre, usually Klaus answer to my questions, so the mistake !

but we are all fan of Jeff Beck !

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Aug 12 14:43:46 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:43:46 -0700
Subject: woah!
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEJDGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEJDGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <411BBA62.7060102@fourthworld.com>

MisterX wrote:

> Anyone heard of a good fla[sh] file format source/parser lately?

No, but I found a good non-proprietary replacement:
<http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/>

With CSS, JavaScript, DOM, and SMIL all operating as subsets under the 
SVG umbrella, there's little one can't do with SVG.

Parsing it is a snap:  it's all XML.  Delivering it efficiently is a 
snap: gzip-compressed delivery is part of the spec.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug 12 14:45:22 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:45:22 -0500
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <53DDA768-EC85-11D8-BE22-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD4124F2.3CD6%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/12/04 12:30 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> And, I'm not "all about Director" either, BTW. But, the product is a
> pretty powerful and viable one. Rev is amazing, but try as this list
> might, it is NOT the be-all end-all in all categories. It can be easily
> outperformed in image processing.

There are several areas where Rev is excellent, some where it is good, some
where it is poor, etc. I think so long as we all are trying to work with
RunRev to shore up the "non-excellent" points of the product, it will only
continue to get better and better.

One way to do this is to look at what other development tools do well and
see if there's a way to add this functionality to Rev. As Troy said:

> I'd like to see Rev be more capable in this regard, so that I don't
> have to maintain knowledge in several IDEs to accomplish my goals.

I totally agree. It is good to have several tools in the "toolbox", but if
you can have an "all-in-one" tool (or as close to it as possible), you don't
need to reach into the toolbox for other tools quite so often.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Aug 12 14:47:55 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:47:55 -0300
Subject: dBase lib
In-Reply-To: <20040812182233.8216530AB4@mail.rtl.org>
References: <20040812182233.8216530AB4@mail.rtl.org>
Message-ID: <1F8D5607-EC90-11D8-80C3-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 3:26 PM, Dave LeYanna wrote:

> Points well taken, none the less...
>
> Let me take a different approach here. How about creating libs (not an
> external) that have functions like open, close, set order to, seek, 
> append,
> delete, pack, get, put and so on. The tables are in use now I just 
> want to
> use Rev as a front end without ODBC. However if nothing like this 
> exists I
> suppose that I'll have to decide if I want to take the time to make it 
> (not
> likely) or not use Rev as the front end. I wonder about Python...
>
> Dave
>

Dave,

Do you need dbase files or can just be another format? You can use 
serendipty library. It will not give you SQL but it will give you those 
old school feeling using record pointers and navigation. Also, if the 
problem is in the deployment you can always check Valentina or wait 
till SQLite external is available, both will give you nice SQL 
features.

Also, try doing windows in Python... it's awfull even using PyObjC... 
Better use Rev. So the point is, it must be *.dbf files, like you want 
to migrate old records, or it must be a simple filebased database with 
no fuss?

Andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Aug 12 14:53:23 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:53:23 -0300
Subject: little OT (was Re: woah!)
In-Reply-To: <411BBA62.7060102@fourthworld.com>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEJDGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
	<411BBA62.7060102@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E33DA98F-EC90-11D8-80C3-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 3:43 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> MisterX wrote:
>
>> Anyone heard of a good fla[sh] file format source/parser lately?
>
> No, but I found a good non-proprietary replacement:
> <http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/>
>
> With CSS, JavaScript, DOM, and SMIL all operating as subsets under the 
> SVG umbrella, there's little one can't do with SVG.
>
> Parsing it is a snap:  it's all XML.  Delivering it efficiently is a 
> snap: gzip-compressed delivery is part of the spec.

have you folks looked into XUL? it's very cool... And any mozilla based 
browser supports it out of the box.

for a little Demo, try the Mozilla Amazon Browser at 
http://mab.mozdev.org/ just click on "Try Mab 1.2". You must try it 
with a mozilla based browser, I just tried it with firefox on my MacOS 
10.3.5 and it worked nice. It brings good UI to browsers, I think it's 
a good way to go for webapps when you can't deploy a netapp...

Andre


>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Thu Aug 12 15:00:14 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:00:14 -0400
Subject: dBase lib
In-Reply-To: <1F8D5607-EC90-11D8-80C3-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20040812185600.C20FC30ABB@mail.rtl.org>

See note below... 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andre Garzia
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:48 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: dBase lib


On Aug 12, 2004, at 3:26 PM, Dave LeYanna wrote:

> Points well taken, none the less...
>
> Let me take a different approach here. How about creating libs (not an
> external) that have functions like open, close, set order to, seek, 
> append, delete, pack, get, put and so on. The tables are in use now I 
> just want to use Rev as a front end without ODBC. However if nothing 
> like this exists I suppose that I'll have to decide if I want to take 
> the time to make it (not
> likely) or not use Rev as the front end. I wonder about Python...
>
> Dave
>

Dave,

Do you need dbase files or can just be another format?

I am converting an old system that has dozens of tables, 50 or so custom written programs and semi-associated systems. I am moving little pieces over to PostgreSQL a little at a time because it is way to much to move everything at once. The old design needs to be reworked and has been reworked over the years by way to many system designers.

I need to be able to retrieve and update records in the old system and at the same time manipulate data in the new PostgreSQL system. I want the front end to become congruent and transparent to the two data storage backends. As time goes on everything will be in the PostgreSQL backend but for now...

Dave


 You can use serendipty library. It will not give you SQL but it will give you those old school feeling using record pointers and navigation. Also, if the problem is in the deployment you can always check Valentina or wait till SQLite external is available, both will give you nice SQL features.

Also, try doing windows in Python... it's awfull even using PyObjC... 
Better use Rev. So the point is, it must be *.dbf files, like you want to migrate old records, or it must be a simple filebased database with no fuss?

Andre


--
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Aug 12 14:33:28 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:33:28 -0700
Subject: woah! 
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEJDGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEJDGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <1ADB67B0-EC8E-11D8-8095-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 12, 2004, at 11:30 AM, MisterX wrote:
>
> Anyone heard of a good fla[sh] file format source/parser lately?

Gordon.  <http://www.futurecandy.com/>


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From RGould8 at aol.com  Thu Aug 12 15:14:51 2004
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:14:51 EDT
Subject: Way to print contents of scrolling group?
Message-ID: <1d6.288a1518.2e4d1bab@aol.com>

Brilliant!   Yes, that sounds like it should work.   Thanks!

In a message dated 8/12/04 12:41:26 PM, janschenkel at yahoo.com writes:


> --- RGould8 at aol.com wrote:
> > I've got a group of objects that are grouped
> > together within a scrolling
> > group object on a card, and I'd like to print the
> > contents of that group, even
> > though it's not all visible on the screen at once??
> > Is this possible in Rev???
> > All the parameters for the print command appear to
> > be card and stack-related,
> > not object-related.
> >
> 
> Hava a close look at the 'print' command ; the 'into
> rectangle' form allows you to print something into a
> specific part of the page that will come out of the
> printer.
> 
> Suppose you have a scrolling group that is 600 pixels
> high and 400 pixels wide ; then you could do something
> like :
> --
> set the vScroll of group "Foobar" to 0
> print from the topleft of group "Foobar" to the
> bottomright of group "Foobar" into 0,0,400,300
> set the vScroll of group "Foobar" to 300
> print from the topleft of group "Foobar" to the
> bottomright of group "Foobar" into 0,300,400,600
> --
> 
> You may have to fiddle a bit, bit this should be the
> general way of doing it.
> 
> Hope this helped,
> 
> Jan Schenkel.
> 
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."? 
> (La Rochefoucauld)
> 
> 
> ? ? ? ?
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Aug 12 15:31:53 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:31:53 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408121103030.10655-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408121103030.10655-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <411BC5A9.1030802@fourthworld.com>

 >>I agree with Richard.  I would go considerably further and say that
 >>web-based interactive learning materials have not lived up to their
 >>hype.  My rule of thumb is to use the Internet to (1) make getting and
 >>sharing information convenient for students and (2) deploy learning
 >>vehicles only if they involve interactions among them.
 >
 > Thanks, Gregory, for this insight.
 >
 > I find it particularly interesting given that I just finished a
 > master's in instructional design & technology... in which the
 > mantra seemed to be "web uber alles".  And, like you, I tended
 > to disagree.
 >
 > I think the problem with the web uber alles folks is that they do not
 > possess the ability (much less the interest, I guess) of producing
 > standalone interactive courseware.  So what we get is alot of form
 > trumping function.

One sadly pervasive problem is that too many self-described 
"authorities" on e-learning mistake the Internet for the Web.

I can understand why they didn't stumble across my "Beyond the Browser" 
article:
<http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html>

But it's hard to imagine how anyone who claims to be an authority on 
e-learning could not stumble across any of the dozens of related 
articles I cite there.

The Web, of course, is but a subset of the larger collection of Internet 
protocols.  But moveover, the HTTP protocol that defines the Web is not 
limited to use in generalized browsers, but can be -- and regularly is 
-- used by a wide variety of more specialized software for specific 
tasks, such as delivering courseware materials.

RevNet is but one example of how completely trivial is it to use Rev to 
make a custom client for delivering interactive materials.  The new 
RevOnline is another, and there are many more floating around.

And Rev isn't alone in this:  using HTTP for content delivery within 
interfaces more specialized than a generic browser has been done with 
RealBASIC, REBOL, Director, Flash, and others.

I'd like to think any "authority" would be able to connect the dots here. :)

So all it really comes down to is nothing related to any inherent 
"magic" in a generic browser, but the more interesting question of 
providing an interface that supports a given task optimally.

Many large companies also mistake the Web for the Internet, and in 
providing materials via HTTP to their employees they find e-Bay, Amazon, 
and a million news and entertainment sites competing for their 
employees' attention.

Making a more focused software experience in a custom HTTP client would 
save organizations billions in productivity annually, while providing a 
more useful software experience for their users.

Much of that holds equally true for e-learning and other specialized 
communications....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From cteno4 at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 12 15:43:22 2004
From: cteno4 at earthlink.net (cteno4)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:43:22 -0400
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 50
Message-ID: <20040812193512.E65AC93008B@mail.runrev.com>

Jacqueline,

Thanks very much, this fixed the problems. also fixed my truncating audio 
files using the 26 engine. with the 25 engine with an invisible player 
the files play fine on mac and windows, just that callbacks set near the 
end can be flakie on windows. invisible players work fine on the mac, 
seems to be a pc only problem. setting the location off screen and the 
player to visible fixes all thse audio playback bugs.

Thanks again for the solution!

cheers,

jeff

use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote on 8/11/04 1:55 PM

>> I have been setting callbacks on my players so that when the audio file 
>> is done (wav files), i can hide the pause button. i found that i have had 
>> to pull the end callback time to at least 10 ticks from the total 
>> duration of the file when loaded into the player to get consisitant 
>> callbacks sent. On the mac i can just set the callback to the duration of 
>> the player and it works every time. even trimming 10 clicks off the 
>> duration for the end callback on windows i get probably 1 in 25 that 
>> never get called when the player plays to the end. the player is hidden.
>> 
>> any ideas of whats going on here?
>
>I had various problems with messages from hidden players in one project. 
>The solution was to set the visible of the player to true and move it 
>offscreen. Does that help?



Jeffrey H. Reynolds
6620 Michaels Dr.
Bethesda, MD  20817

301.469.8562

email: cteno4 at earthlink.net
       cteno4 at aol.com


From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Thu Aug 12 15:41:48 2004
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:41:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Educational uses for Rev (was Re: Plea to sell Dan's book widely
In-Reply-To: <20040812185729.CB33F930124@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040812185729.CB33F930124@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0408121425380.22765@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

Devin Asay <devin_asay at byu.edu> writes:
> I've been following the discussion about Rev as a tool for educational
> s/w development. One of the perhaps overlooked uses of Rev in the
> educational setting is as an easy-to-learn, non-threatening environment
> for teaching programming concepts to non-techies.

Or even to techies!

Introductory programming was one of the best uses of HyperCard,
I thought, and have been trying to promote this with Rev.  We
switched over from HC a year ago with our 8th grade programming
class, and have been very happy with it.  Rev has, of course,
several advantages over HC; two biggies are its use of color and
the ability to save apps for any platform so students can take
their work home to show their folks.

I know of other schools that are hanging on with HC, who would
probably make the switch if readable documentation were available.
I used to be able to hand my students Danny Goodman's book and let
them look up things in the index.  My students can navigate Rev's
online help, but since they often don't know what keywords to look
for it isn't that useful.  There should be an index of concepts,
rather than keywords.  I'm thinking of creating a "recipe book"
that teachers could use with kids; there were several such for HC
that got a lot of teachers started.

The University of Chicago uses Rev in a CS class for non-techies.
Originally they used HyperCard and, I believe, the book "HyperCard
in a Hurry".  I'm sure they would like a Rev rewrite of it.

I guess we're back to talking about documentation :-)

Seriously, I think Rev should make a push in the schools; as Devin
said, it's an easy-to-learn, non-threatening programming environment.
Kids love it.

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Aug 12 16:03:46 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:03:46 -0300
Subject: dBase lib
In-Reply-To: <20040812185600.C20FC30ABB@mail.rtl.org>
References: <20040812185600.C20FC30ABB@mail.rtl.org>
Message-ID: <B82529C0-EC9A-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 4:00 PM, Dave LeYanna wrote:

>
> I am converting an old system that has dozens of tables, 50 or so 
> custom written programs and semi-associated systems. I am moving 
> little pieces over to PostgreSQL a little at a time because it is way 
> to much to move everything at once. The old design needs to be 
> reworked and has been reworked over the years by way to many system 
> designers.
>
> I need to be able to retrieve and update records in the old system and 
> at the same time manipulate data in the new PostgreSQL system. I want 
> the front end to become congruent and transparent to the two data 
> storage backends. As time goes on everything will be in the PostgreSQL 
> backend but for now...
>
> Dave

Dave,

we don't have a plain dbase file lib, I think it should not be hard to 
implement a simple one, I just looked at 
http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/python/dbfreader.py  where 
you have a simple dbf reader. I think your options are:

1) Implement dbase lib on your won. That would be great.
2) Make a gui wrapper in Rev, use a command line tool on the background 
to interface with the dbase files (like gui in Rev, dbase engine in 
python)
3) Use ODBC and be happy. Why can't you use ODBC, I am sure you said, 
but I missed...

Andre



>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Thu Aug 12 16:16:03 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:16:03 -0400
Subject: dBase lib
In-Reply-To: <B82529C0-EC9A-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20040812201149.3EA7930ABB@mail.rtl.org>

Andre; 

-----Original Message-----
Clip...

Dave,

we don't have a plain dbase file lib, I think it should not be hard to implement a simple one, I just looked at http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/python/dbfreader.py  where you have a simple dbf reader. I think your options are:

1) Implement dbase lib on your won. That would be great.

--Maybe I'll have to look into this option.


2) Make a gui wrapper in Rev, use a command line tool on the background to interface with the dbase files (like gui in Rev, dbase engine in
python)

--Possibility. Probably easier than option 1



3) Use ODBC and be happy. Why can't you use ODBC, I am sure you said, but I missed...

I have Windows and Linux deployment environments and Windows users outside the main office (all over the state of Michigan) that have trouble running webmail! Setting up ODBC over the phone will not be fun. The same thing could be said for setting up PostgreSQL until v.8 (beta) came out. That thing installs like a charm in Windows!

Dave





Andre



>
--
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 12 16:24:47 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:24:47 -0500
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <15DA2AA2-EC70-11D8-BE22-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B2300.7050000@chipp.com>
	<15DA2AA2-EC70-11D8-BE22-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411BD20F.60701@chipp.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:

> But you see, I'm not talking about "applications" or "multimedia", I'm 
> talking about functions. I have no debate about Rev's ability to produce 
> applications - as you said, one of my own commercial apps is written in 
> Rev, and I don't regret it. Director is MUCH harder to get to produce 
> "applications" that look and behave like "applications."

Troy,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. This is good feedback stuff :-)

Originally, this thread began with the comment that I believed Director 
would have problems building a ButtonGadget type 'application.' That is 
why I focussed on applications. Based upon what you just said, I assume 
it is easier to build applications in Rev than Director. We are alligned 
on that point :-)

IMO, the ability to deliver an app involves a number of factors, 
including having the 'correct' imaging tools available. Based upon what 
you have said, I'm impressed with what Director can do! You've also 
pointed out some of it's shortcomings as well.

I wish I could try out the application demo you sent me a link to. 
Unfortunately, it's a 'purchase or none' type of product. I'd like to 
better understand what it is they are doing and see how much of it is 
possible in Rev.

Troy, you're obviously knowledgeable about both of these platforms. 
Based upon that knowledge, what do you think would be most difficult 
imaging tasks if you were to port your streamlogger app to Rev? This can 
give us valuable insight into the directions Rev might be able to take 
to have better imaging tools.

-Chipp

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Aug 12 16:36:35 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:36:35 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev (was Re: Plea to sell Dan's book
	widely)
In-Reply-To: <77A3041E-EC7A-11D8-88CF-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408111145370.19133-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<77A3041E-EC7A-11D8-88CF-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <411BD4D3.1080901@fourthworld.com>

Devin Asay wrote:

> At the same time Rev provided us a way to migrate our older HyperCard 
> and Toolbook custom apps to a new, single-track code base.

When Chipp and I were manning the Rev booth at WWDC we had a chance to 
do real-time HyperCard conversion:  a fella came by the booth with 
questions about conversion, I told him how easy it was, he came back a 
few hours later and brought his stack (a really cool simulation of 
genetic mutations) and we were able to convert it on the spot in just a 
few minutes, handing him back the converted stack and an OS X standalone. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Aug 12 16:49:11 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:49:11 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411BD20F.60701@chipp.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B2300.7050000@chipp.com>
	<15DA2AA2-EC70-11D8-BE22-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411BD20F.60701@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <1011BB48-ECA1-11D8-8095-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 12, 2004, at 1:24 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
> Troy, you're obviously knowledgeable about both of these platforms. 
> Based upon that knowledge, what do you think would be most difficult 
> imaging tasks if you were to port your streamlogger app to Rev? This 
> can give us valuable insight into the directions Rev might be able to 
> take to have better imaging tools.

Would wrapping an external around something like image magick be 
helpful in addressing some of Rev's shortcomings in the image 
manipulation library?  I haven't used image magick but it seems to do 
lots of neat things.  It would obviously be slower since it was wrapped 
in an external but maybe it would still be fast enough to make Rev an 
option in some projects that it currently isn't an option for.

I haven't looked at the feasibility of this, just wondering at this 
point.

<http://www.imagemagick.org/>

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug 12 16:49:51 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:49:51 -0500
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 50
In-Reply-To: <E1BvLOY-0002DC-Ec@iron.nocdirect.com>
References: <E1BvLOY-0002DC-Ec@iron.nocdirect.com>
Message-ID: <411BD7EF.7020500@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/12/04 2:43 PM, cteno4 wrote:

 > Jacqueline,
 >
 > Thanks very much, this fixed the problems. also fixed my truncating 
audio
 > files using the 26 engine. with the 25 engine with an invisible player
 > the files play fine on mac and windows, just that callbacks set near the
 > end can be flakie on windows. invisible players work fine on the mac,
 > seems to be a pc only problem. setting the location off screen and the
 > player to visible fixes all thse audio playback bugs.
 >
 > Thanks again for the solution!

No problem. I encourage you to bugzilla these -- that's the only way 
they will get fixed. The work-around is okay but it would be better if 
we didn't have to use it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 12 16:51:57 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:51:57 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <411BD20F.60701@chipp.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B2300.7050000@chipp.com>
	<15DA2AA2-EC70-11D8-BE22-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411BD20F.60701@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <737C23A4-ECA1-11D8-BE22-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 4:24 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Troy, you're obviously knowledgeable about both of these platforms. 
> Based upon that knowledge, what do you think would be most difficult 
> imaging tasks if you were to port your streamlogger app to Rev? This 
> can give us valuable insight into the directions Rev might be able to 
> take to have better imaging tools.

;-)

StreamLogger is a poor example indeed. IMO, it should not have been 
written in Director in the first place. It works well, and does all the 
things it says, but it is more of an "application", and makes few 
demands on Imaging functionality - in fact, basically the same ones 
that "Fathom" does, which are easily achievable in Rev. When I release 
version 2, it will include an "engine" change.  ;-)   The Streamlogger 
example was more to show that such applications *can* be written in 
Director, as the implication had been that they couldn't.

When I say that Rev is behind in Imaging functionality, I'm talking 
more about real-time dynamic image creation. Director can composite 
(really composite, NOT overlay) many images with alpha at 30+ frames a 
second. This allows a single pixel bitmap to be transformed through 
code into a fully animated dynamic interface, with text, interactive 
buttons, rollovers, everything. Think of a dynamic animated 
hierarchical menu which is actually a one pixel bitmap that is written 
into and modified on the fly. This simply cannot be done in Revolution 
currently, yet is (relatively) commonplace in Director.

Consider this, in Director, virtually everything has an .image 
property. Text included. This means that you can generate a field of 
HTML styled text, which is never displayed, and exists only as a "cast 
member" (data resource). The .image of this field can then easily be 
obtained - with 8-bit alpha, and used within the same imaging functions 
as actual images. This allows real-time compositing of text and images 
into a single new image.

Also, all images have the ability to be real-time warped (essentially 
offsetting of individual points of their rects) before or after the 
compositing, with remarkable image smoothing. Useful in creating 
distortions, perspectives, and realtime soft semi-transparent drop 
shadows... and anything else the developer wishes to do. Are these sort 
of functions irrelevant? To some, maybe. Not to me. To me, they are a 
level of power and interface control I've yet to see in any other tool. 
Does it apply to all projects? Certainly not. StreamLogger makes NO use 
of them, and shouldn't. This is one of the reasons I anticipate moving 
it out of Director.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 12 16:55:04 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:55:04 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <1011BB48-ECA1-11D8-8095-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B2300.7050000@chipp.com>
	<15DA2AA2-EC70-11D8-BE22-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411BD20F.60701@chipp.com>
	<1011BB48-ECA1-11D8-8095-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <E2A161F7-ECA1-11D8-BE22-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 4:49 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> Would wrapping an external around something like image magick be 
> helpful in addressing some of Rev's shortcomings in the image 
> manipulation library?  I haven't used image magick but it seems to do 
> lots of neat things.  It would obviously be slower since it was 
> wrapped in an external but maybe it would still be fast enough to make 
> Rev an option in some projects that it currently isn't an option for.

Well, no doubt it would. Speed is one consideration, true, but having 
the functionality at all is certainly another.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Thu Aug 12 17:14:41 2004
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:14:41 -0400
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040812185729.CB33F930124@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040812185729.CB33F930124@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9FFE6D28-ECA4-11D8-8357-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>

You're most welcome, Judy.

In fact, I've opposed the development of online courses at Concordia, 
not only because the professor as communicator of his or her own 
research and art is removed from the equation (that online forums do 
not fill the gap is another story we could get into) and student 
interaction becomes marginal (it need not, but it does), but because 
web stuff is almost always more form than content and is generally not 
even developed by the educator.  I haven't seen many online courses 
that are not fluff.

The potential benefits of standalone courseware, created with 
HyperCard-like languages, as complements to traditional lectures is, in 
my opinion, mind boggling.  It would be trivial, for example, to create 
a Revolution stack that selects random excerpts of prose by authors who 
are considered to write in the same genre and present these to the 
student for comparison.  But better still, have the professor use the 
stack in the class as a presentation vehicle so that he or she is also 
in the dark as to the prose that will be pulled up for comparison, and 
therefore would not benefit from the perfect foresight of dusty old 
critiques that otherwise could be used as a weapon of mass smugness 
(nasty, eh?).  Make the profs earn their keep.

I have long stopped evangelizing courseware because the response I get 
from colleagues is that they do not want to be involved with its 
development.  The incentive to do the work is simply not there.  I make 
my stuff freely available to my colleagues, but their enthusiasm 
quickly peters when I explained that some work is required to get it to 
do what they want it to do.  They'll only give it a spin if it's ready 
to go right off the shelf.  But what is right off the shelf often 
wasn't developed with the direct and ongoing involvement of the 
educator and is unlikely to have the educational depth that it 
otherwise could.  (In deference to everyone on this list, I'm not 
saying that you have to be an educator to create something educational. 
  Quite the contrary: some of the fluffiest stuff I've seen was created 
by educators who don't have a particular speciality in any discipline.  
What I am saying is that courseware will be meatier if it is created by 
a scholar, which is someone who has a speciality and has produced 
original work in the sciences, humanities or art.)  Of course, the 
dilemma faced by companies such as Runtime Revolution is that they can 
never make their software easy enough to use to appeal to a big enough 
market of individual educators because of the incentive problem.  Some 
hope does lie with the many consultants and free-lance developers who 
have a scholarly bent, or have formed close collaborations with those 
who do.  But I think that many of them would agree that the education 
market is not particularly lucrative, and we're back to where we 
started.  I should leave this with a positive spin:  courseware = cool, 
untapped potential.  We just need more impressive examples of it in 
use.

	Gregory



On Aug 12, 2004, at 2:57 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> Thanks, Gregory, for this insight.
>
> I find it particularly interesting given that I just finished a 
> master's
> in instructional design & technology... in which the mantra seemed to 
> be
> "web uber alles".  And, like you, I tended to disagree.
>
> I think the problem with the web uber alles folks is that they do not
> possess the ability (much less the interest, I guess) of producing
> standalone interactive courseware.  So what we get is alot of form
> trumping function.
>
> A pity...
>
> Judy


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 12 17:32:19 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:32:19 -0500
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <1011BB48-ECA1-11D8-8095-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B2300.7050000@chipp.com>
	<15DA2AA2-EC70-11D8-BE22-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411BD20F.60701@chipp.com>
	<1011BB48-ECA1-11D8-8095-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <411BE1E3.40909@chipp.com>

Hi Trevor,

Funny you should mention it, but Chris has done some of this already. 
Unfortunately, nothing ready for primetime, but you two should share 
tips/code etc..

best,

Chipp

Trevor DeVore wrote:


> Would wrapping an external around something like image magick be helpful 
> in addressing some of Rev's shortcomings in the image manipulation 
> library?  I haven't used image magick but it seems to do lots of neat 
> things.  It would obviously be slower since it was wrapped in an 
> external but maybe it would still be fast enough to make Rev an option 
> in some projects that it currently isn't an option for.
> 
> I haven't looked at the feasibility of this, just wondering at this point.
> 
> <http://www.imagemagick.org/>

From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Aug 12 17:32:22 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:32:22 -0700
Subject: little OT (was Re: woah!)
In-Reply-To: <E33DA98F-EC90-11D8-80C3-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEJDGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
	<411BBA62.7060102@fourthworld.com>
	<E33DA98F-EC90-11D8-80C3-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <18617E31-ECA7-11D8-A15C-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

I've spent a good bit of time with XUL. It's pretty cool for what it 
tries to do but it's very limiting and a poor dev choice because of a 
lack tools for creating the UI.

Dan

On Aug 12, 2004, at 11:53 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

>
> On Aug 12, 2004, at 3:43 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> MisterX wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone heard of a good fla[sh] file format source/parser lately?
>>
>> No, but I found a good non-proprietary replacement:
>> <http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/>
>>
>> With CSS, JavaScript, DOM, and SMIL all operating as subsets under 
>> the SVG umbrella, there's little one can't do with SVG.
>>
>> Parsing it is a snap:  it's all XML.  Delivering it efficiently is a 
>> snap: gzip-compressed delivery is part of the spec.
>
> have you folks looked into XUL? it's very cool... And any mozilla 
> based browser supports it out of the box.
>
> for a little Demo, try the Mozilla Amazon Browser at 
> http://mab.mozdev.org/ just click on "Try Mab 1.2". You must try it 
> with a mozilla based browser, I just tried it with firefox on my MacOS 
> 10.3.5 and it worked nice. It brings good UI to browsers, I think it's 
> a good way to go for webapps when you can't deploy a netapp...
>
> Andre
>
>
>>
>> -- 
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>>  ___________________________________________________________
>>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> -- 
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug 12 17:47:09 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:47:09 -0500
Subject: little OT (was Re: woah!)
In-Reply-To: <18617E31-ECA7-11D8-A15C-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BD414F8D.3D01%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/12/04 4:32 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> I've spent a good bit of time with XUL. It's pretty cool for what it
> tries to do but it's very limiting and a poor dev choice because of a
> lack tools for creating the UI.

Hey, Andre - why don't you use Rev as a front end for creating XUL? Then you
could make it public and it would also garner some interest in Rev as a
development tool.

Whaddya think?

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Aug 12 18:09:20 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:09:20 +0200
Subject: dBase lib
In-Reply-To: <20040812182233.8216530AB4@mail.rtl.org>
References: <20040812182233.8216530AB4@mail.rtl.org>
Message-ID: <42686A10-ECAC-11D8-9D0B-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hello Dave,

I'm sure you can code your dBase lib in using transcript even if nobody 
else, there, seems to use such kind of stuff for yet. If i had to do 
the job, i would try to translate an other language dBase lib to 
Transcript instead of starting from scratch.

I don't know if it can be usefull but i know that Fran?ois Jouen has 
build this kind of dBase lib in using the Rebol scripting language. He 
showed me the resulting app and i could see that it works fine. Perhaps 
could you download the Fran?ois Jouen's libs from the Rebol developers 
resources (all freeware) from the www.rebol.com site and have an eye on 
them to see if you can translate them to native Transcript code.

Hope this can help :)

Best, Pierre

Le 12 ao?t 04, ? 20:26, Dave LeYanna a ?crit :

> Points well taken, none the less...
>
> Let me take a different approach here. How about creating libs (not an
> external) that have functions like open, close, set order to, seek, 
> append,
> delete, pack, get, put and so on. The tables are in use now I just 
> want to
> use Rev as a front end without ODBC. However if nothing like this 
> exists I
> suppose that I'll have to decide if I want to take the time to make it 
> (not
> likely) or not use Rev as the front end. I wonder about Python...
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jan 
> Schenkel
> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:49 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: RE: dBase lib
>
> --- Dave LeYanna <dleyanna at rtl.org> wrote:
>> I know that is one way to do it but I wanted native access (direct
>> file
>> access) because of difficulties in setting up ODBC on client desktops
>> and the problems with mixed OS environments.
>>
>> Thanks for your help. This may be the way that I have to go...
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Though the file format itself is not overly
> complicated and well documented online, the hard part
> is creating the actual database engine that would
> parse your SQL commands and spit out the result of
> your SELECT.
> The ODBC driver takes care of all that ; and with
> Valentina, MySQL, PostgreSQL and other databases
> natively supported, hardly anyone will see the need to
> write a native driver for dBase files -- now if this
> had been 8 years ago...
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."
> (La Rochefoucauld)
>
>
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Aug 12 18:13:34 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:13:34 +0200
Subject: Rep : Quit in Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <1E7DD1C9-EC8E-11D8-B0D9-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
References: <DB510CB9-EC70-11D8-8EF2-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<CDEA4AC5-EC86-11D8-A4C2-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<7A7BD9F8-EC87-11D8-8AF5-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<BEF4C0E4-EC88-11D8-91E8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<1E7DD1C9-EC8E-11D8-B0D9-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <DA29EBF5-ECAC-11D8-9D0B-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 12 ao?t 04, ? 20:33, Yves COPPE a ?crit :

>
> Le 12-ao?t-04, ? 19:55, Klaus Major a ?crit :
>
>> Bon soir Yves,
>>
>>> Le 12-ao?t-04, ? 19:41, Pierre Sahores a ?crit :
>>>> Hello Yves,
>>>>
>>>> Along a cool Jeff Beck's  winyle is playing here all over the 
>>>> house...
>>
>> Beck-O-La?
>>
>>> Hi Klaus,
>>>
>>> superstition !!!!
>>
>> Mon ami, je ne suis pas Pierre!
>> :-D
>>
>> Mais j'aime la musique de Jeff B. aussi :-)
>>
>
> sorry, Pierre, usually Klaus answer to my questions, so the mistake !

a very excusable mistake as long as Klaus will stay one of our prefered 
musicien too :D
>
> but we are all fan of Jeff Beck !
>
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From Cubist at aol.com  Thu Aug 12 18:25:29 2004
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:25:29 EDT
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
Message-ID: <a3.608508ae.2e4d4859@aol.com>

sez mdswindell at charter.net:
>First, I used the word insurmountable, not trivial.  Worlds apart in 
>meaning and implication.
   Perhaps you should think about exactly & precisely *how* non-trivial it 
*is* to determine which fonts are installed on J. Random User's machine, to 
determine the typographical specifications (character widths, etc) of those 
installed fonts, and to deal with the puzzle presented by fonts whose names are 
identical but whose typographic specifications are *different*. There may well be 
more factors which increase the intractability of the xplat font problem, but 
those three will do for a start.

>I also said I think solving this very "in 
>your face" problem should be a priority.  It is a problem common to all
>who create with Rev in any platform.
   No, it isn't. It's a problem common to all who create *cross-platform 
products*, REGARDLESS of whatever tool(s) they use. *Some* Rev users do that; 
others are perfectly happy to ignore every platform they, themselves, don't use.

>I then suggested two ways that "might" make this thorn in the side more
>manageable:
>
>1) Revolution itself investing in and distributing a limited number of
>font faces which would be identical across platforms (requiring 
>individuals to hire fontographers on their own is not viable).
   This solution assumes that (a) *all* Rev users *will* install each & every 
font that's included with the package, *and* (b) that *no* Rev users will 
*ever* UNinstall the Rev fonts. Can you guarantee either of those assumptions, 
let alone both? Didn't think so...

>2) Revolution providing a mechanism for these fonts, as needed, to 
>reside within the standalone and be called from there.
>
>It appears the former has been shown to work for some users.  You seem
>to be saying that latter option might be legitimate, too, but like you
>I am ignorant of how it might happen.
   Door #2 looks the most promising to my eyes. I just don't know if there 
are any under-the-hood "gotcha"s which might bite Rev in the ass if the engine 
were tweaked to *do* this sort of thing. My tentative assumption, based on the 
fact that the vast majority of apps *don't* do this sort of thing, is that 
there are indeed valid technical reasons for not doing it in most cases; the few 
apps which *do* do it are, as a rule, pretty darned limited in scope, which 
suggests that there are tradeoffs involved, and, in consequence, that these 
tradeoffs are of such a nature as to make the game not worth the candle for most 
apps. Again, I would be very interested in getting true knowledge from someone 
who *does* know what they're talking about...

   A third option has occured to me: Take the bitmaps for every character in 
a font, store all these bitmaps as custom properties, and set the imageSource 
for all the characters in a field to the appropriate custom properties. I can 
already see a number of practical difficulties with this scheme, but it *is* 
doable, and it *would* allow *exactly and precisely the SAME* font(s) to be 
used on *any* platform Rev supports. This last quality, in and of itself, may be 
sufficiently valuable to make it worth a developer's time and effort to go 
this route, in some cases.

>While you would be correct in saying that I am (c) a combination of not
>well-informed and without having invested a lot of thought in the 
>issue, I'm ok with that.  It's not an area I feel I should need to 
>become expert.  I do feel Rev users of any skill level deserve a simple
>(to the user), upfront solution to what seems to be a plaguing problem
>that is not being addressed systemically from  within the Rev 
>environment.
   That's nice. Mind you, I'm *not* disagreeing that a "simple (to the user), 
upfront solution" would be a Really Nifty thing to have, nor do we differ on 
the question of whether or not this problem is (at the very least) a *major 
bloody annoyance*. If you'll pardon the metaphor, I am simply saying, "sounds 
great, but who will bell the cat?"
    _ _ _
  /\_\_\_\   Quentin 'Cubist' Long
 /\/\_\_\_\  Webmaster and co-editor, TSAT netzine
/\/\/\_\_\_\
\/\/\/_/_/_/ tsat.transform.to (main)
 \/\/_/_/_/  tsat.xepher.net (mirror)
  \/_/_/_/

From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Aug 12 18:26:36 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:26:36 +0100
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040812002301.74956.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040812002301.74956.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AC026EF8-ECAE-11D8-9F7E-000A9569F8B0@lacscentre.co.uk>


> on Thu, 12 Aug 2004
> Kaj Schwermer wrote:
>
>
>> The English
>> language education market is a multibillion dollar
>> market in this
>> country alone, but decent software (language
>> teaching in Asia) is few
>> and far between.
>
>
>> I would be very interested in
>> hearing more about what
>> you have to say about potential applications
>> in this field.
>
>
You might want to take a look here,

<http://www.corporate-english.com>

and for something different here,

<http://www.eigotown.com/p_news/fred/index.shtml>

I'm not saying these are great pieces of language education software  
(like everyone else, I have my own opinions on what good educational 
software should do), but I think they illustrate some of the scope of 
Revolution. (It isn't mentioned on the sites, but both products were 
developed in Metacard/Revolution, including all the current server-side 
CGI scripts for the Corporate English product.)

Cheers
Dave


From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Aug 12 18:26:39 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:26:39 -0300
Subject: XUL, not OT anymore... was (Re: little OT (was Re: woah!))
In-Reply-To: <BD414F8D.3D01%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD414F8D.3D01%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <ADC0FD9A-ECAE-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 6:47 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>
>> I've spent a good bit of time with XUL. It's pretty cool for what it
>> tries to do but it's very limiting and a poor dev choice because of a
>> lack tools for creating the UI.
>
> Hey, Andre - why don't you use Rev as a front end for creating XUL? 
> Then you
> could make it public and it would also garner some interest in Rev as a
> development tool.
>
> Whaddya think?

Ken,

I was thinking about a Card to Xul conversor like the one I use to make 
forms with RevHTTPd. We could loop the controls and spit a XUL file, of 
course the main problem would be the scripts inside the controls, but 
if one is using revHTTPd then any script can be accessed by a URL, so I 
think some time soon we may have a nice and transparent way to put our 
cards into mozilla...

what about this?

andre



>
> :-)
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From Cubist at aol.com  Thu Aug 12 18:37:11 2004
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:37:11 EDT
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
Message-ID: <9f.4b4ed833.2e4d4b17@aol.com>

sez jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu:
>Okay, Cubist, I'm gonna make plain my ignorance on the issue in hopes you
>can help  me understand why ...
>
>One cannot use, say, Trebuchet MS and Comic Sans MS (standard installs
>on both PC and Macs I think) reasonably reliably.
>
>These are kinda plain-vanilla types of fonts.  I'm aware that there
>probably won't be complete crossplatform fidelity, but, on the whole,
>shouldn't they work with remarkably little nudging?
>
>My project used these, and they worked tolerably well on both platforms
>until about half way through...
   Hmmm. The best suggestion I can think of is maybe the font files 
themselves got corrupted somewhere along the way, in which case you should trash the 
fonts and reinstall fresh copies. Failing that, there's always the generic Mac 
troubleshooting protocol, namely "trash the relevant preference files (Finder 
prefs, General Controls prefs, and Rev prefs, in this case), rebuild the 
desktop, and zap the PRAM".
   If neither of those options help, well, you got me...
    _ _ _
  /\_\_\_\   Quentin 'Cubist' Long
 /\/\_\_\_\  Webmaster and co-editor, TSAT netzine
/\/\/\_\_\_\
\/\/\/_/_/_/ tsat.transform.to (main)
 \/\/_/_/_/  tsat.xepher.net (mirror)
  \/_/_/_/

From rodney at infiny.co.nz  Thu Aug 12 18:43:57 2004
From: rodney at infiny.co.nz (rodney tamblyn)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:43:57 +1200
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <9FFE6D28-ECA4-11D8-8357-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>
References: <20040812185729.CB33F930124@mail.runrev.com>
	<9FFE6D28-ECA4-11D8-8357-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <18C53E9F-ECB1-11D8-A600-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>

Hi Gregory,

Thanks for your interesting posting, and to everyone else who has 
contributed to this thread

I've been involved in developing educational media software for over 10 
years, at a University here in NZ until a few years ago when I went out 
on my own.  A lot of my early work was in the area of computer assisted 
learning, using HyperCard.  Later I branched out into other academic 
disciplines, particularly medical teaching. I'm also convinced of the 
potential of applications like Revolution to contribute to meaningful, 
constructivist, student-centred online learning spaces.

Over the last two years I've been trying to put these ideas into 
practice in a commercial form.  I've just released the results of this 
work, an application called OceanBrowser (PC/OSX) to my first 
customers. Developed in Revolution it combines a set of learning 
objects, a backend database on the internet for collaborative data, and 
a content management system for course data distributed on CD-ROM.  
It's designed to allow people to start out with what they have and feel 
comfortable with, and to gradually increase the interactivity/scope of 
learning activities as time and resources allow.  It's important to the 
business model that the software is practical out of the box.

For those of you who are interested in the detail of the current 
product, here's a little more information.  My initial customers are 
all involved in online postgraduate medical education.  They have a 
well defined set of requirements, which include the ability to work 
with complex multimedia such as VR movies, audio, and large numbers of 
high resolution images.  They also have a lot of documents that need 
distribution, typically Acrobat documents and Powerpoints.  We 
converted the latter to Flash in order to more seamlessly display them 
in OceanBrowser.   The product uses Altuit's excellent Altbrowser dll 
(on the Windows platform) to show web content.  OceanBrowser supports a 
custom protocol ("ocb://") which allows academics to embed links in web 
pages or emails to point to specific learning resources in 
OceanBrowser.  When the student clicks on this link, OceanBrowser will 
open, retrieve the resource (typically from a database stored on the 
local computer) and display.  Next to every resource displayed in the 
system is a comments area that "tracks" the content being showed.  
Users can post comments to this area, which may also embed appropriate 
metadata (e.g. posting to an audio item includes link to the timepoint 
the user was at in the audio file, posting to Flash powerpoint links to 
slide).  "Resource" can be anything ranging form a document (pdf, 
webpage), multimedia (image, movie) to an application (Flash player, 
Director projector, etc).  The foregoing list may seem to be overly 
orientated around document distribution, as I said though, my users 
have a large body of existing content they need to work with, so stage 
one is to address these problems.

One of the more interesting learning objects in the system at the 
moment is an image annotation tool, which allows the user to view or 
create multimedia annotations to an image (by drawing a region on the 
image, recording an audio commentary, and providing additional 
information such as name, description etc).  This has been based on 
some research I've been doing over the last year or so, and I hope to 
extend these annotation features to support true, distributed, 
collaborative image annotation.

With OceanBrowser I'm hoping that by creating a sustainable business 
model I'll be able to afford to invest the time into interaction 
design, prototyping, and research (review of educational 
literature/other products) that will be required to implement some of 
the more exciting educational ideas that I want to see in the product 
over time.

The new website for Oceanbrowser.com will be going up in a couple of 
weeks, now that the software product is complete.  I hope then that we 
can put some demo content up for everyone to have a look at.

Regards,

Rodney

On 13/08/2004, at 9:14 AM, Gregory Lypny wrote:

> You're most welcome, Judy.
>
> In fact, I've opposed the development of online courses at Concordia, 
> not only because the professor as communicator of his or her own 
> research and art is removed from the equation (that online forums do 
> not fill the gap is another story we could get into) and student 
> interaction becomes marginal (it need not, but it does), but because 
> web stuff is almost always more form than content and is generally not 
> even developed by the educator.  I haven't seen many online courses 
> that are not fluff.
>
> The potential benefits of standalone courseware, created with 
> HyperCard-like languages, as complements to traditional lectures is, 
> in my opinion, mind boggling.  It would be trivial, for example, to 
> create a Revolution stack that selects random excerpts of prose by 
> authors who are considered to write in the same genre and present 
> these to the student for comparison.  But better still, have the 
> professor use the stack in the class as a presentation vehicle so that 
> he or she is also in the dark as to the prose that will be pulled up 
> for comparison, and therefore would not benefit from the perfect 
> foresight of dusty old critiques that otherwise could be used as a 
> weapon of mass smugness (nasty, eh?).  Make the profs earn their keep.
>
> I have long stopped evangelizing courseware because the response I get 
> from colleagues is that they do not want to be involved with its 
> development.  The incentive to do the work is simply not there.  I 
> make my stuff freely available to my colleagues, but their enthusiasm 
> quickly peters when I explained that some work is required to get it 
> to do what they want it to do.  They'll only give it a spin if it's 
> ready to go right off the shelf.  But what is right off the shelf 
> often wasn't developed with the direct and ongoing involvement of the 
> educator and is unlikely to have the educational depth that it 
> otherwise could.  (In deference to everyone on this list, I'm not 
> saying that you have to be an educator to create something 
> educational.  Quite the contrary: some of the fluffiest stuff I've 
> seen was created by educators who don't have a particular speciality 
> in any discipline.  What I am saying is that courseware will be 
> meatier if it is created by a scholar, which is someone who has a 
> speciality and has produced original work in the sciences, humanities 
> or art.)  Of course, the dilemma faced by companies such as Runtime 
> Revolution is that they can never make their software easy enough to 
> use to appeal to a big enough market of individual educators because 
> of the incentive problem.  Some hope does lie with the many 
> consultants and free-lance developers who have a scholarly bent, or 
> have formed close collaborations with those who do.  But I think that 
> many of them would agree that the education market is not particularly 
> lucrative, and we're back to where we started.  I should leave this 
> with a positive spin:  courseware = cool, untapped potential.  We just 
> need more impressive examples of it in use.
>
> 	Gregory
>
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2004, at 2:57 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Gregory, for this insight.
>>
>> I find it particularly interesting given that I just finished a 
>> master's
>> in instructional design & technology... in which the mantra seemed to 
>> be
>> "web uber alles".  And, like you, I tended to disagree.
>>
>> I think the problem with the web uber alles folks is that they do not
>> possess the ability (much less the interest, I guess) of producing
>> standalone interactive courseware.  So what we get is alot of form
>> trumping function.
>>
>> A pity...
>>
>> Judy
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
--
Rodney Tamblyn
44 Melville Street
Dunedin
New Zealand
+64 3 4778606
http://rodney.buzzword.com/
http://oceanbrowser.com


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Aug 12 18:50:39 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:50:39 +0100
Subject: Win XP SP2, anyone tried it?
Message-ID: <08067484-ECB2-11D8-9F7E-000A9569F8B0@lacscentre.co.uk>

Hi all

SP2 for Win XP is now available. But I'm temporarily stuck on a dial-up 
connection, so am unlikely to be able to try it out soon. So if anyone 
has installed it (or is about to), I'd be interested to know of any 
problems ecountered by Rev, or better yet, to hear that it works 
flawlessly.

Cheers
Dave


From rporeda at ci.tulsa.ok.us  Thu Aug 12 20:02:36 2004
From: rporeda at ci.tulsa.ok.us (Robert Poreda)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:02:36 -0500
Subject: NT4
Message-ID: <s11bbeda.071@ci.tulsa.ok.us>

Has anyone created a Revolution CGI explicitly for NT4?


From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Thu Aug 12 20:11:35 2004
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:11:35 -0400
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040812220605.757F1930144@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040812220605.757F1930144@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <56E79E94-ECBD-11D8-8357-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>

It was at least a couple of years ago that I posted to the MC list that 
I thought that the (not sure of the exact titles --- my copies are at 
work) HyperCard Users Manual and Language Reference from the original 
boxed version were two of the most elegant and well written software 
manuals I had every read. I am surprised that so few software companies 
have adopted Apple's style and format or insist on good writing from 
their manual writers.  Online help in general does not come close to 
the usefulness of a well written manual in traditional print.

	Gregory


On Aug 12, 2004, at 6:06 PM, Marty Billingsley wrote:

> Introductory programming was one of the best uses of HyperCard,
> I thought, and have been trying to promote this with Rev.  We
> switched over from HC a year ago with our 8th grade programming
> class, and have been very happy with it.  Rev has, of course,
> several advantages over HC; two biggies are its use of color and
> the ability to save apps for any platform so students can take
> their work home to show their folks.
>
> I know of other schools that are hanging on with HC, who would
> probably make the switch if readable documentation were available.
> I used to be able to hand my students Danny Goodman's book and let
> them look up things in the index.  My students can navigate Rev's
> online help, but since they often don't know what keywords to look
> for it isn't that useful.  There should be an index of concepts,
> rather than keywords.  I'm thinking of creating a "recipe book"
> that teachers could use with kids; there were several such for HC
> that got a lot of teachers started.


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 12 20:16:28 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:16:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wait with messages
In-Reply-To: <CFD2DD66-EBAE-11D8-A7C4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040813001628.88767.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>


if you had your website URL as part of your
signoff then it would be easier to find
your stacks!

Thanks for the advice,

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
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From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 12 20:31:38 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:31:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040812055704.775C99300DB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040813003138.19055.qmail@web40512.mail.yahoo.com>

on Thu, 12 Aug 2004 
Nicolas Cueto wrote:
 
> > Alejandro Tejada asked:
> > What's the main operating systems of PC in Japan?

> Windows, hands down.

So XBox still had a chance to displace Sony
in their own market! ;-)

> > I've read somewhere that NEC computers are
> > a majority in Japan, or it was long ago?
> 
> Long ago, there's a good chance NEC were dominant.
> All the schools of all
> the schoolboards I taught at 15 years ago, for
> example, had installed
> "top-of-the-line" CALL rooms (40+ PC's, projector
> screen, printers, all
> networked, though no internet), and everything had
> the NEC brand.
> (Incidentally, those rooms also collected a lot of
> dust.) And, knowing
> bureaucracies, if two or three schoolboards went NEC
> then the likelihood is
> also high that many (most? all??) other schoolboards
> nationwide went NEC
> too.

Similar to the motto:
"Nobody gets fired for buying from Microsoft"

> Things now, though, may have changed.  This comment,
> too, is just a guess
> from experience. For example, the private jr/sr high
> I was at most recently
> was originally NEC based, but this year they re-did
> one of the CALL room's
> with Dell machines. Must be the economy and
> everyone's efforts to cut down on costs.

Dell? Not Sony or Toshiba? :-(

> > Talking with some japanese people, i learned
> > that relatively few japanese could speak
> > english with fluency. This was a surprise for me.
> 
> Sadly, that's still probably true. But, then again,
> coming from Canada, I
> can't speak with pride about the general French
> ability of Anglo-Canadians
> despite years of education and, more importanly,
> despite the fact that it's
> one of our official languages.

I believed that French is mostly speaked in
Quebec...

> (Y ademas, Alejandro, me imagino que en tu mente
> estaras haciendo una
> comparacion entre el nivel de ingles aqui y ese
> nivel tan alto que existe
> por casi toda Europa. Si es asi, yo pienso que no es
> una comparacion
> razonable. Por ejemplo, como ya sabras, los sistemas
> de letras y la
> gramatica son bastantes diferentes, y, ademas, el
> ingles forma parte tanto
> de la historia europeana como la de sus paises
> coloniales. Pero pensando
> positivamente, me parece que a lo mejor despues de
> una o dos generaciones
> mas, la abilidad en ingles aqui tambien se vera
> significadamente mejorada.
> Por ejemplo, en una de los high-schools que enseno,
> casi todos los maestros
> de ingles hablan el ingles "pera-pera". 

Interesting, indeed!

I had to look in google for pera-pera:

>From this page:
<http://www.jalt-publications.org/tlt/articles/2002/08/mieuli>

Pera-pera is a great Japanese word that means 
fluent or talkative. 

> En contraste, hace quince anos antes
> que, de las dozenas de maestros de ingles que yo
> conocia en las escuelas
> publicas, solamente dos o tres hablaban o entendian
> el ingles
> suficientemente. Puesto que, espero que las cosas
> esten cambiando
> veramente.)

Do you think that RunRev and Transcript have
a chance to get introduced to english students 
and japanese english teachers?

Are you able to type EASILY Japanese with unicode
characters within RunRev fields?

> Now, if only I could draw, I'd be all set. <g>

If you could take photos, and control Photoshop
or another image editing application then you are
almost ready! ;-))

> Enjoying and benefitting from this education thread!

Actually, RunRev could benefit from opening the
educators list, but this time by sending an 
invitation to suscribe. :-)

> http://kweto.com

Your image "Still under construction"
wins my laugh for today! :-))

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
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From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Aug 12 20:45:08 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:45:08 -0300
Subject: FTPd Server Side implemented in Rev!!!
Message-ID: <066500A2-ECC2-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I am about to add a brand new pure transcript server to our bag of 
code. I just made the first proof of concept of a FTP server in Rev. 
It's running, it works. I am not releasing the code right now for this 
will be packed with HTTPd in my nice LibWebServices library. And also, 
I did not implemented RETR yet, so you cannot download or upload, you 
can just play arround traversing folders and listing it's content... 
tomorrow I'll implement download and upload. I am having some trouble 
with passive connections too, but that should be addressed soon.

If anyone want to see a shot of the server along with a terminal 
proving that it works point your browser to:
http://homepage.mac.com/soapdog/RevFTPdshot.jpg

hehehehe I just love transcript!!!!!

Andre
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Aug 12 20:48:58 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:48:58 -0600
Subject: wait with messages
In-Reply-To: <20040813001628.88767.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040813001628.88767.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8F74FB83-ECC2-11D8-859F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 6:16 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:

> if you had your website URL as part of your
> signoff then it would be easier to find
> your stacks!

Like this?

Dar

****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug 12 21:42:03 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:42:03 -0500
Subject: XUL, not OT anymore... was (Re: little OT (was Re: woah!))
In-Reply-To: <ADC0FD9A-ECAE-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BD41869B.3D22%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/12/04 5:26 PM, "Andre Garzia" <soapdog at mac.com> wrote:

> 
> On Aug 12, 2004, at 6:47 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> I've spent a good bit of time with XUL. It's pretty cool for what it
>>> tries to do but it's very limiting and a poor dev choice because of a
>>> lack tools for creating the UI.
>> 
>> Hey, Andre - why don't you use Rev as a front end for creating XUL?
>> Then you
>> could make it public and it would also garner some interest in Rev as a
>> development tool.
>> 
>> Whaddya think?
> 
> Ken,
> 
> I was thinking about a Card to Xul conversor like the one I use to make
> forms with RevHTTPd. We could loop the controls and spit a XUL file, of
> course the main problem would be the scripts inside the controls, but
> if one is using revHTTPd then any script can be accessed by a URL, so I
> think some time soon we may have a nice and transparent way to put our
> cards into mozilla...
> 
> what about this?

Sounds good to me!

Let me know when you're done... ;-)

Seriously - is anyone else interested in taking a look at this? If not,
perhaps you and I should take this off list...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug 12 21:55:32 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:55:32 -0500
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <a3.608508ae.2e4d4859@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD4189C4.3D25%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/12/04 5:25 PM, "Cubist at aol.com" <Cubist at aol.com> wrote:

> sez mdswindell at charter.net:
>> First, I used the word insurmountable, not trivial.  Worlds apart in
>> meaning and implication.
>    Perhaps you should think about exactly & precisely *how* non-trivial it
> *is* to determine which fonts are installed on J. Random User's machine

Well, we can use the fontNames function and get a list (of course it's just
names, and nothing else, but at least it's *something*).

>    No, it isn't. It's a problem common to all who create *cross-platform
> products*, REGARDLESS of whatever tool(s) they use. *Some* Rev users do that;
> others are perfectly happy to ignore every platform they, themselves, don't
> use.

Or to assume that "close is OK". I'll bet that this covers most Rev
developers unless what they are doing either (A) requires a specific font,
or (B) is really concerned with exactness. For example, in many cases I have
just allowed the default font to "win out", or would use my own frontscript
to change the font of all the controls on a card during preOpenCard to a
known (common) font. This isn't to say that there aren't issues involved -
there certainly are (some additional space between controls, etc). But for
the most part, since the app I'm delivering is a "business app" (i.e.
contacts, calendar, etc.) for a vertical market who probably cares even less
than the general public, "close is OK".

>> 2) Revolution providing a mechanism for these fonts, as needed, to
>> reside within the standalone and be called from there.
>    Door #2 looks the most promising to my eyes. I just don't know if there
> are any under-the-hood "gotcha"s which might bite Rev in the ass if the engine
> were tweaked to *do* this sort of thing.

Well, Flash and Director do it all the time by allowing TrueType (and I
believe OpenType as well) fonts to be embedded. Perhaps Rev can do the same
thing?


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From frank at backtalk.com  Thu Aug 12 21:58:38 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:58:38 -0400
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <20040812055704.775C99300DB@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040812055704.775C99300DB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4B2D08DF-ECCC-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

If Monte would add installation of the BitStream cross-platform fonts 
as an option to his installer, then we'd be one step closer to a 
solution.

And if RunRev would fix bug #1856, then RunRev could be the first 
cross-platform tool to have good cross-platform font support.

Make sure to vote for 
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi? 
id=1856

-- Frank

Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/

On Aug 12, 2004, at 1:57 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> From: Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com>
> Subject: Re: Cross platform fonts question
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <3E14A86D-EC00-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6 at danshafer.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2004, at 5:09 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:
>
>> I really don't get why this issue is insurmountable.  It seems like
>> the kind of thing that leads to bad PR for any creation made with RR
>> that displays poorly on different systems.
>
> If you read the entire thread, you know that this problem is note
> peculiar to RR. It's a very broad and difficult problem to solve.
> IMNSHO, nobody has really solved it elegantly and transparently in a
> development tool.
>


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Aug 12 22:01:23 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:01:23 +1000
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811231606.027e11c8@mail.tweedly.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040811231606.027e11c8@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <AD8A0250-ECCC-11D8-A110-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 12 Aug 2004, at 8:30 am, Alex Tweedly wrote:

>> There's a POP library available -- does it not also handle POP3?
>
> I'm sure it will - but I couldn't find a POP library. (so it's either 
> not in the standard package, or it's not well documented, or it's not 
> in a "well organized add-on").
>
The POP library is mine and it's listed on VersionTracker as well as on 
my web site which is a member of the RunRev web ring. Googling for 
"Runtime Revolution POP3 library" shows it as the first entry.

It is not part of the standard package but it is a well-documented 
library and I hope you will find it is well organized.

BTW, in answer to Richard's query, it has only been tested with POP3. I 
haven't come across any servers using earlier versions of the POP 
protocol, so I don't know how compatible it would be with them.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/


From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 12 22:03:26 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:03:26 -0400
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <4B2D08DF-ECCC-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <20040812055704.775C99300DB@mail.runrev.com>
	<4B2D08DF-ECCC-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <F68537F8-ECCC-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 12, 2004, at 9:58 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> And if RunRev would fix bug #1856, then RunRev could be the first 
> cross-platform tool to have good cross-platform font support.


Uh...

... never mind.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Aug 12 22:33:07 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:33:07 +1000
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <F68537F8-ECCC-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <20040812055704.775C99300DB@mail.runrev.com>
	<4B2D08DF-ECCC-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<F68537F8-ECCC-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <1C9F9CD6-ECD1-11D8-A110-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi All,

While we are talking about fonts, would some Linux person please fill 
me in on whether they have these fonts and if not, what is the closest 
thing in the Linux world. I don't know if this varies with distribution 
and GUI so I may be asking an impossible question.

Proportional:
Sans serif: Verdana
Serif: Times or Times New Roman

Fixed width:
Sans serif: Monaco
Serif: Courier or Courier New

I use these four fonts almost exclusively although I try to avoid 
Monaco if possible because it isn't a Windows font. I don't like 
FixedSys, so if any Windows person has an idea of a fixed width sans 
serif font that works well in small sizes, I'd love to know. (XP only)

Thanks,
Sarah


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug 12 22:45:27 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:45:27 -0500
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <BD4189C4.3D25%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD4189C4.3D25%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <411C2B47.6090601@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/12/04 8:55 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Well, Flash and Director do it all the time by allowing TrueType (and I
> believe OpenType as well) fonts to be embedded. Perhaps Rev can do the same
> thing?

This would solve a lot of problems and I'd like it a lot. HyperCard used 
to allow embedded fonts too -- but the practice was discouraged by Apple 
because of potential crashes in certain situations while printing.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From tsj at unimelb.edu.au  Thu Aug 12 22:53:35 2004
From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:53:35 +1000
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <20040812185729.A544E930123@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <F8551F59-ECD3-11D8-9A1C-000393AEC28C@unimelb.edu.au>


On Friday, August 13, 2004, at 04:57  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004  2:45:19  AM Australia/Melbourne
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
> Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>
>
> BTW: Does MMD still have the logo requirement for products built with 
> it, or has it joined Coder Warrior, XCode, and Rev in requiring only a 
> "portions copyright" string in the About box?

Nup. As of Director MX 2004 there are no logo requirements at all. 
Copyright info gets added to the Version attribute displayed in the 
info window (on a Mac at least) when you build a projector in MX but I 
don't have MX 2004 handy to confirm whether it does the same.

Cheers,

Terry...

> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________
>  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
>
Dr Terry Judd
Lecturer in Educational Technology (Design)
Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne
Parkville VIC 3052
AUSTRALIA


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 12 23:16:42 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:16:42 -0500
Subject: Win XP SP2, anyone tried it?
In-Reply-To: <08067484-ECB2-11D8-9F7E-000A9569F8B0@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <08067484-ECB2-11D8-9F7E-000A9569F8B0@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <411C329A.2050808@chipp.com>

Hi Dave,

I've used it at the office with Hemingway. Seems to work just fine with 
the embedded firewall turned on. We haven't tested it against any proxy 
servers just yet.

-Chipp

Dave Cragg wrote:

> SP2 for Win XP is now available. But I'm temporarily stuck on a dial-up 
> connection, so am unlikely to be able to try it out soon. So if anyone 
> has installed it (or is about to), I'd be interested to know of any 
> problems ecountered by Rev, or better yet, to hear that it works 
> flawlessly.



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 12 23:23:01 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:23:01 -0500
Subject: FTPd Server Side implemented in Rev!!!
In-Reply-To: <066500A2-ECC2-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <066500A2-ECC2-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <411C3415.1000300@chipp.com>

Andre, that's great!
Give me a Paypal link and let me contribute to your fine handiwork :-)

best,

Chipp

Andre Garzia wrote:

> I am about to add a brand new pure transcript server to our bag of code. 
> I just made the first proof of concept of a FTP server in Rev. It's 
> running, it works. I am not releasing the code right now for this will 
> be packed with HTTPd in my nice LibWebServices library. And also, I did 
> not implemented RETR yet, so you cannot download or upload, you can just 
> play arround traversing folders and listing it's content... tomorrow 
> I'll implement download and upload. I am having some trouble with 
> passive connections too, but that should be addressed soon.


From wbl at wilddsl.net.au  Thu Aug 12 23:23:57 2004
From: wbl at wilddsl.net.au (Bruce Laidlaw)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:23:57 +1000
Subject: sound in revolution
References: <20040806031800.ADE819300FF@mail.runrev.com>
	<001401c47c8a$deb60b60$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <411C344D.7050301@wilddsl.net.au>

Hi, Steve, Judy, Klause,

Sorry, I've only been have half-attending/understanding. I have a HC 
stack with the line

play "applause"

"Applause" was just a HC sound file. Translated into Rev the new stack 
works fine on Mac and Windows. However the only Windows machine I can 
test it on has QT intalled. Are you saying this won't work if QT is not 
installed in the Windows machine?

If I change the script to 'play audioclip "applause.wav"' AND install a 
"applause.wav" into my Rev stack then it should play fine on Windows 
machines without Quicktime?

Steve, what do you mean by "One has to script the player bit...."?

Thanks
Bruce

Stephen King wrote:

>Hi Judy, Klaus,
>
>After carefully reading your post Klaus, I have now (embarrassingly) cracked
>my problem of playing WAVs without QT.
>I hadn't fully appreciated the difference between the PLAY and PLAYER
>'objects'. I mistakenly thought that PLAY was simply similar to PLAYER but
>with data stored rather than a filename reference.
>Not so it seems. You are absolutely right that 'Play Audio Clip' does indeed
>play WAVs fine on Windows. One has to script the player bit, but at least it
>all plays.
>
>I also had this response in a Bugzilla but hadn't appreciate the
>significance at the time.
>Must learn to read the docs more carefully :-)
>
>Thanks for this. Helps a lot.
>
>Cheers
>Steve
>
>
>  
>



From nrkweto03 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 12 23:41:57 2004
From: nrkweto03 at hotmail.com (kweto)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:41:57 +0900
Subject: Educational uses for Rev / typing Japanese
References: <20040813003138.19055.qmail@web40512.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY17-DAV5QIs4i3qlY00010833@hotmail.com>

On Friday 13 Aug 2004
Alejandro Tejada asked:

> Do you think that RunRev and Transcript have
> a chance to get introduced to english students
> and japanese english teachers?

I have no idea. I hope so! And I think there's a Japan-based RunRev users
group?

> Are you able to type EASILY Japanese with unicode
> characters within RunRev fields?

I don't know? From my experience with MC, I've been assuming that with
RunRev too I'd have to cut'n'paste Japanese text into fields. So, after
Alejandro Tejada asked I checked out and, yes!, I can not only type but also
edit Japanese text directly within a field. Wow!

But, there's still a mismatch between some shift-key and punctuation
characters on my keyboard and how these characters actually appear onscreen
within a script field or the message box. For example, if I type these
characters in a script field...

&'():]+*}

the corresponding result onscreen is...

^&*('\:"|

Oh well...

Cheers,
Nicolas Cueto

From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Thu Aug 12 23:49:00 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <411BC5A9.1030802@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408122045590.20154-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Actually, Richard, they would have had to have worked hard NOT to have
stumbled across it, as I posted it as ammo in one or more class discussion
threads ;-)

As for some of them being 'authorities', well, remember that two of them
claimed that Hypercard was 'a cheap rip-off' or 'knock-off' of Visual
Basic... and that VBA = Visual Basic Analogue...  you get the drift I'm
sure.

Judy

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> One sadly pervasive problem is that too many self-described
> "authorities" on e-learning mistake the Internet for the Web.
>
> I can understand why they didn't stumble across my "Beyond the Browser"
> article:
> <http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html>

<snip>
>
> I'd like to think any "authority" would be able to connect the dots here. :)


From jamesboudalis at comcast.net  Thu Aug 12 23:53:00 2004
From: jamesboudalis at comcast.net (james boudalis)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:53:00 -0500
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <000c01c480e9$09bf3e00$4123a343@homermibjmbm2s>


From SimPLsol at aol.com  Fri Aug 13 00:05:55 2004
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:05:55 EDT
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
Message-ID: <74.4003b6e6.2e4d9823@aol.com>

Richard Gaskin writes:
How many app designers want to ignore the standard fonts for all target
platforms to use a typeface standard to none?

I am one.
1. The number of bundled "common" fonts is limited.
2. The common fonts leave a lot to be desired, would you really want to use 
Arial (ever), or Courier, or Times?
3. Some of the common fonts look and print differently on different 
platforms, anyway - despite having the same name.
4. There are good cross-platform fonts which are not bundled with any 
platform (Bitstream Vera comes immediately to mind).
5. Designers may wish to have a signature font to define the "look" or 
"style" of their app.

I agree that Rev. Ltd. has many better ways to deploy resources than becoming 
a type foundry. But I would like to see an easy way of bundling fonts of the 
designer's choice with a Rev. app.

Paul Looney

From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 13 00:54:49 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <20040813020046.1D72F9300EB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040813045449.84405.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com>

on Thu, 12 Aug 2004
Ken Ray wrote:

> Well, Flash and Director do it all the time by
> allowing TrueType (and I believe OpenType as well) 
> fonts to be embedded. Perhaps Rev can do the same
> thing?

I'll add Acrobat too. ;-)
Do you remember the Cross World Computing dll's?
They could load a font in runtime, so no installation
in the system was needed.
Did they work as promised in both platforms? 

Troy Rollins wrote:
 
> Uh...
> 
> ... never mind.
> --

Hmmm, i think that Adobe Acrobat could claim
to be one of the best cross-platform font
rendering tools. Recent pdf specifications
clearly shows the direction that Adobe is
aiming Acrobat: A multimedia cross platform
tool. 

Before doubting this, check by yourself
all the multimedia features added to
pdf version 1.5

Cubist wrote:

> A third option has occured to me: Take the
> bitmaps for every character in 
> a font, store all these bitmaps as custom
> properties, and set the imageSource 
> for all the characters in a field to the appropriate
> custom properties.

Malte Brill coded a similar solution.
It's in the RR user's contribution site.

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Aug 13 01:13:03 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:13:03 +0200
Subject: NT4
In-Reply-To: <s11bbeda.071@ci.tulsa.ok.us>
References: <s11bbeda.071@ci.tulsa.ok.us>
Message-ID: <73BD1DCA-ECE7-11D8-83DC-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

I did it in 09/2000 (NT4/SP5) and it worked like a charm but i can't 
yet remerber about the details (don't work since 01/2001 with this 
customer)...

Le 13 ao?t 04, ? 02:02, Robert Poreda a ?crit :

> Has anyone created a Revolution CGI explicitly for NT4?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Aug 13 02:24:43 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:24:43 -0500
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <20040813045449.84405.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BD41C8DB.3D61%kray@sonsothunder.com>

>> Well, Flash and Director do it all the time by
>> allowing TrueType (and I believe OpenType as well)
>> fonts to be embedded. Perhaps Rev can do the same
>> thing?
> 
> I'll add Acrobat too. ;-)
> Do you remember the Cross World Computing dll's?
> They could load a font in runtime, so no installation
> in the system was needed.
> Did they work as promised in both platforms?

It only worked for Windows, IIRC.

> Cubist wrote:
> 
>> A third option has occured to me: Take the
>> bitmaps for every character in
>> a font, store all these bitmaps as custom
>> properties, and set the imageSource
>> for all the characters in a field to the appropriate
>> custom properties.
> 
> Malte Brill coded a similar solution.
> It's in the RR user's contribution site.

Yeah, but setting on imageSource per character is *really slow*, so you'd
only want to do this if you had a short string like a title.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From rooster at drizzle.com  Fri Aug 13 03:36:25 2004
From: rooster at drizzle.com (iMP)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:36:25 -0700
Subject: trim sides of image rect if white
In-Reply-To: <20040813020046.1D72F9300EB@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040813020046.1D72F9300EB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <v04220800bd421ce23103@[192.168.123.191]>

Hi:

I generate a variable image in a white area of a card within a known 
rectangle. I would like to save this area to a jpg file, but with the 
left and right sides trimmed of any extra white space. The rule would 
be "if all the pixels from top to bottom are white, then trim that 
'column' of pixels." I want to start from the left and the right 
sides and work to the center of the rectangle, deleting all columns 
that have only white pixels, stopping when I hit a colored pixel. The 
height should not be affected.

Has anybody already done this that they could share, or give me some 
pointers on how to accomplish this? I hope I explained the problem 
understandably!

Many thanks,

guy

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 13 03:45:40 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 03:45:40 -0400
Subject: sound in revolution
In-Reply-To: <411C344D.7050301@wilddsl.net.au>
References: <20040806031800.ADE819300FF@mail.runrev.com>
	<001401c47c8a$deb60b60$5602a8c0@athalon> <411C344D.7050301@wilddsl.net.au>
Message-ID: <C60D2D60-ECFC-11D8-BA50-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

You can import the sound as a WAV file  into Rev (File ---> import as 
control --> audio file) then play it using the play command:  play 
"applause.wav"  Works fine cross-platform.  I do not think I have 
QuickTime installed on the PC I use for testing.

M


On Aug 12, 2004, at 11:23 PM, Bruce Laidlaw wrote:

> Hi, Steve, Judy, Klause,
>
> Sorry, I've only been have half-attending/understanding. I have a HC 
> stack with the line
>
> play "applause"
>
> "Applause" was just a HC sound file. Translated into Rev the new stack 
> works fine on Mac and Windows. However the only Windows machine I can 
> test it on has QT intalled. Are you saying this won't work if QT is 
> not installed in the Windows machine?
>
> If I change the script to 'play audioclip "applause.wav"' AND install 
> a "applause.wav" into my Rev stack then it should play fine on Windows 
> machines without Quicktime?
>
> Steve, what do you mean by "One has to script the player bit...."?
>
> Thanks
> Bruce
>
> Stephen King wrote:
>
>> Hi Judy, Klaus,
>>
>> After carefully reading your post Klaus, I have now (embarrassingly) 
>> cracked
>> my problem of playing WAVs without QT.
>> I hadn't fully appreciated the difference between the PLAY and PLAYER
>> 'objects'. I mistakenly thought that PLAY was simply similar to 
>> PLAYER but
>> with data stored rather than a filename reference.
>> Not so it seems. You are absolutely right that 'Play Audio Clip' does 
>> indeed
>> play WAVs fine on Windows. One has to script the player bit, but at 
>> least it
>> all plays.
>>
>> I also had this response in a Bugzilla but hadn't appreciate the
>> significance at the time.
>> Must learn to read the docs more carefully :-)
>>
>> Thanks for this. Helps a lot.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Aug 13 03:53:03 2004
From: martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:53:03 +0100
Subject: Cross platform fonts question
In-Reply-To: <1C9F9CD6-ECD1-11D8-A110-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <F68537F8-ECCC-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
 <20040812055704.775C99300DB@mail.runrev.com>
 <4B2D08DF-ECCC-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
 <F68537F8-ECCC-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <l03130300bd4227983ea2@[81.78.127.10]>

>Sarah reichelt wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>While we are talking about fonts, would some Linux person please fill
>me in on whether they have these fonts and if not, what is the closest
>thing in the Linux world. I don't know if this varies with distribution
>and GUI so I may be asking an impossible question.
>
>Proportional:
>Sans serif: Verdana
>Serif: Times or Times New Roman
>
>Fixed width:
>Sans serif: Monaco
>Serif: Courier or Courier New
>
>I use these four fonts almost exclusively although I try to avoid
>Monaco if possible because it isn't a Windows font. I don't like
>FixedSys, so if any Windows person has an idea of a fixed width sans
>serif font that works well in small sizes, I'd love to know. (XP only)
>
>Thanks,
>Sarah
>

Sarah,

I would expect available fonts to vary between distros and installations.
Linux was "born to be tweaked" after all. Verdana is not available, being
an MS font you wouldn't expect it on Linux.
While I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a "Linux person", I do run
Mandrake Linux 10 here and FWIW here are a few of the common or potentially
useful fonts that came installed with it.

Bitstream Vera Sans
Bitstream Vera Sans Mono
Bitstream Vera Serif
Courier
Helvetica
Lucida
LucidaTypewriter
Times

all these have regular, italic, bold, bold italic

The KDE desktop, by default seems to use 2 fonts imaginatively named "Sans"
and "Monospace" as what we might call system fonts. They look OK actually.

The version of Helvetica is even uglier than usual. Helvetica is a Unix
system font however (also courier and times I believe), and barring user
changes, Helvetica is the default font that Revolution uses - ie it is the
effective textfont of a newly created stack under Linux. (In Rev 2.5 things
may well be different but I haven't checked it).

(BTW, the application I've been working on runs on mac classic, windows and
Linux. I've never set any fonts or font sizes at all except in a couple of
text editing fields, and probably as a result I haven't had any issues with
cross-platform fonts, Revolution's defaults have worked fine for me. I
think the moral of that is that if your application can live without the
use of typograhics, one answer to this problem is just to leave well alone.)

I'd be interested to hear what other Linux installations have.

Martin Baxter



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug 13 04:45:40 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:45:40 +0200
Subject: sound in revolution nr. 666
In-Reply-To: <411C344D.7050301@wilddsl.net.au>
References: <20040806031800.ADE819300FF@mail.runrev.com>
	<001401c47c8a$deb60b60$5602a8c0@athalon> <411C344D.7050301@wilddsl.net.au>
Message-ID: <27D5B8D4-ED05-11D8-98C4-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Bruce,

> Hi, Steve, Judy, Klause,
>
> Sorry, I've only been have half-attending/understanding. I have a HC 
> stack with the line
>
> play "applause"
>
> "Applause" was just a HC sound file. Translated into Rev the new stack 
> works fine on Mac and Windows.
>  However the only Windows machine I can test it on has QT intalled.
> Are you saying this won't work if QT is not installed in the Windows 
> machine?

No :-)

> If I change the script to 'play audioclip "applause.wav"' AND install 
> a "applause.wav" into
> my Rev stack then it should play fine on Windows machines without 
> Quicktime?

Yes :-)

But you cannot mix then, means you cannot use "play ac xyz" AND QT 
player objects in the
same project on windows!

If you use the command "play ac xyz" then the engine uses:

> ...that uses QT, which although much slower and more memory intensive 
> can play many
> more formats than the default play command which uses low-level sound 
> routines in
> Win32 and MacOS which don't support compression.
>
> Posted 9/2/2002 by Scott Raney to the MetaCard List

But if you use "player" objects, the engine tries to use QT, if 
installed, and WMP
(WinMediaPlayer) if not...

> Steve, what do you mean by "One has to script the player bit...."?
>
> Thanks
> Bruce

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Fri Aug 13 06:43:41 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:43:41 +0200
Subject: FTPd Server Side implemented in Rev!!!
In-Reply-To: <066500A2-ECC2-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <066500A2-ECC2-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a06110446bd424a344348@[141.89.100.235]>

>Hi Folks,
>
>I am about to add a brand new pure transcript 
>server to our bag of code. I just made the first 
>proof of concept of a FTP server in Rev. It's 
>running, it works. I am not releasing the code 
>right now for this will be packed with HTTPd in 
>my nice LibWebServices library. And also, I did 
>not implemented RETR yet, so you cannot download 
>or upload, you can just play arround traversing 
>folders and listing it's content... tomorrow 
>I'll implement download and upload. I am having 
>some trouble with passive connections too, but 
>that should be addressed soon.
>
>If anyone want to see a shot of the server along 
>with a terminal proving that it works point your 
>browser to:
>http://homepage.mac.com/soapdog/RevFTPdshot.jpg
>
>hehehehe I just love transcript!!!!!
>
>Andre
>--
>Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
>http://studio.soapdog.org
>

That is really great news if we can have embedded ftp server.

Sounds like you your should either rename your 
lib to libNetServices or make a separate libFTP 
and libHTTP. What speaks for the latter is that 
these protocols are independent from each other 
and having two libs will allow you independent 
maintenance cycles, also making things a bit 
easier for users. They will also match other 
'protocol' libs (libSMTP, libPOP...). I imagine 
that libFTP will also merge in the FTP client 
functionality.

Robert

From nnoydb at excite.com  Fri Aug 13 07:06:58 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:06:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Tokenizer?
Message-ID: <20040813110658.9531C299AF@xprdmailfe22.nwk.excite.com>


Has anyone written a tokenizer that I can use in RR?  I am working on rewriting the Gold Parser Engine but could use something simple for the short term.



Kevin


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Aug 13 07:15:01 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:15:01 +0200
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <ACC3F5B6-EC06-11D8-81E4-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <ACC3F5B6-EC06-11D8-81E4-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <04E51640-ED1A-11D8-9072-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 12.08.2004, at 04:24, Mark Brownell wrote:

> Ah yes MIAW, that's Movie In A Window. Works like a movie in a window 
> when all the other windows in Amsterdam have real girls.
Lol.. - seems that not many Driectors have been in Amsterdam yet...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speelearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Aug 13 07:26:14 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:26:14 +0200
Subject: QT in rev slower: Was Re: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other
	toolkits
In-Reply-To: <16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <964DB1A2-ED1B-11D8-9072-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 12.08.2004, at 03:36, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> and QT to integrate most of the other things I want to do (the 
> interactive 3D stuff, instructive Flash animations, etc.).  I have 
> been very pleased with Rev's performance in all of these areas.
>
Trevor,
I have made an interactiv .mov file in a QT tool. If I run it as a 
standalone its double as fast as in a rev QT Player?  (from the 
subjectiv feeling, i cant test how fast it runs)
What kind of secret do have that QT performs well in rev?.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speelearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Aug 13 07:38:39 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:38:39 +0200
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <524B4DE7-ED1D-11D8-9072-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 12.08.2004, at 08:50, Troy Rollins wrote:

> It seems that I'm being backed into a corner.
But you came out like Ronaldo after a goal..;)

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speelearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug 13 08:50:50 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:50:50 +0200
Subject: Fla[sh] file reader for PCs
In-Reply-To: <BD41869B.3D22%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEKBGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

there's a free reader here
http://www.bomberstudios.com/sciteflash/index.php

it doesn't show as being capable of opening fla files,
but it does... ;)

there's an alternative version
http://www.meychi.com/scite.php

it has a problem with bit101 fla files but it's easily fixed
with... 

Well... I opened it in file preview because there were a bunch
of null chars everywhere... I made a new file reader option...

i'll update the file soon on the web...

cheers
Xavier

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug 13 09:39:55 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:39:55 +0200
Subject: Tokenizer?
In-Reply-To: <20040813110658.9531C299AF@xprdmailfe22.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEKDGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

what is a tokenizer? ;0

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of K
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 13:07
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Tokenizer?
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone written a tokenizer that I can use in RR?  I am 
> working on rewriting the Gold Parser Engine but could use 
> something simple for the short term.
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
> Disclaimer:
> 
> Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
> employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
> coincidental. 
> Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.
> 
>  The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
> them
> is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
> the reader
>  is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
> (A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
> scope of this article.)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From kevin at runrev.com  Fri Aug 13 09:10:39 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:10:39 +0100
Subject: errorDialog Message question
In-Reply-To: <411A4C50.3090708@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BD427C5F.2BE9%kevin@runrev.com>

On 11/8/04 5:41 pm, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> What property does the "Script Debug Mode" menu item set, and why is it
> beneficial to ship with a default setting that's different from the
> engine default?

It defaults to true in the IDE.  The engine defaults are designed for
standalones.  Debugging is not a useful mode to have on by default, but it
is wanted by default in the IDE.  This is a rare instance, normally we place
a priority on keep the defaults in sync, and will make a few more changes to
the engine to bring it better into line in future releases.

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From kevin at runrev.com  Fri Aug 13 09:27:51 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:27:51 +0100
Subject: Versions of RR
In-Reply-To: <A2468280-EB27-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD428067.2BEA%kevin@runrev.com>

On 11/8/04 12:47 am, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> Well, that would make sense, and in fact, it is exactly the reason.
> After all, Revolution's engine IS the MetaCard engine.

It is not the MetaCard engine.  It ceased to be when we bought it some time
ago.  We haven't updated all the strings or synced the version numbers as
those changes have to be done carefully, but we will complete doing that
over time.

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Fri Aug 13 09:52:27 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:52:27 -0400
Subject: Tokenizer?
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEKDGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <20040813134810.26B6230ABD@mail.rtl.org>

While it's a bit over my head there is an explanation here...
http://www.devincook.com/goldparser/concepts/dfa.htm

Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of MisterX
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:40 AM
To: nnoydb at excite.com; How to use Revolution
Subject: RE: Tokenizer?

what is a tokenizer? ;0

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of K
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 13:07
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Tokenizer?
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone written a tokenizer that I can use in RR?  I am working on 
> rewriting the Gold Parser Engine but could use something simple for 
> the short term.
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
> Disclaimer:
> 
> Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, my 
> terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental.
> Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.
> 
>  The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to 
> hold them is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the 
> existence of the reader  is left as an exercise for the second god 
> coefficient.
> (A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the 
> scope of this article.)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 13 10:08:01 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:08:01 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <04E51640-ED1A-11D8-9072-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <2FC2A0C4-ED32-11D8-92A3-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Friday, August 13, 2004, at 04:15 AM, Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:

> On 12.08.2004, at 04:24, Mark Brownell wrote:
>
>> Ah yes MIAW, that's Movie In A Window. Works like a movie in a window 
>> when all the other windows in Amsterdam have real girls.
> Lol.. - seems that not many Driectors have been in Amsterdam yet...
>
> regards
> Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Yep, looks that way. I only saw something about this on the travel 
channel, that's how I know.. So I would guess that they haven't seen 
the Travel channel either.

\This is a perfect example of the need for a joke handler. If they 
would just put an arm and hand on the side of most computers then the 
joke handler could polk the user in the ribs, your girl friend could 
slap you, your computer could shake you to wake you up when you are 
tired...etc

Mark


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 13 10:21:43 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:21:43 -0700
Subject: Tokenizer?
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEKDGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <19D49641-ED34-11D8-92A3-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Friday, August 13, 2004, at 06:39 AM, MisterX wrote:

> what is a tokenizer? ;0

If you are going to dream about features than dream big:

"When you are writing a lexical analyzer it would be helpful to have a 
class like the StreamTokenizer class from Sun's Java, so I've done 
something like that and here it is the CStringTokenizer class, the 
usage of this class is the same as by the StreamTokenizer from Java, 
there are a few additional functionality's and the function names are 
slightly different"
http://www.codeguru.com/Cpp/Cpp/cpp_mfc/parsing/article.php/c781/
----
Perhaps this could be part of getting to this:

Flex, version 2.5
A fast scanner generator

"Overview

This manual describes flex, a tool for generating programs that perform 
pattern-matching on text. The manual includes both tutorial and 
reference sections: "
http://www.gnu.org/software/flex/manual/html_mono/flex.html

Perhaps this could be the best approach to creating high speed specific 
need pull-parsers.

Mark



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Aug 13 10:54:05 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:54:05 -0300
Subject: FTPd Server Side implemented in Rev!!!
In-Reply-To: <a06110446bd424a344348@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <066500A2-ECC2-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<a06110446bd424a344348@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <9F28EA36-ED38-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 13, 2004, at 7:43 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

> That is really great news if we can have embedded ftp server.
>
> Sounds like you your should either rename your lib to libNetServices 
> or make a separate libFTP and libHTTP. What speaks for the latter is 
> that these protocols are independent from each other and having two 
> libs will allow you independent maintenance cycles, also making things 
> a bit easier for users. They will also match other 'protocol' libs 
> (libSMTP, libPOP...). I imagine that libFTP will also merge in the FTP 
> client functionality.
>
> Robert
>

Robert,

the library was called libWebServices, I know ftp is not the web, and I 
am considering renaming it to libNetServices. We've got HTTPd and FTPd 
functionality, Rev already provide the client side, if you use get URL 
"ftp://ftp.myServer.com/pub/" it will work. The servers are independent 
each one inside it's own button and you load them in the back. I can do 
my development cycle fine for working in one server does nothing to the 
other. The main difficulty is passive connections, the clients are not 
connecting to the dataport, but this I'll figure today.

if you embedd the two servers out of the box in your stack (just add 
two invisible buttons) you gain this functionlities:
* HTTPd - Serve dynamic and static pages.
* HTTPd - map handlers/controls/cards/stacks to URL-like scheme (Ie: 
http://www.myhome.com/myStack/myCard/myButton/mouseUp)
* HTTPd - XML-RPC Server Side so that you can use RPC with all your 
handlers.
* FTPd - Serve files using standard protocol, active connections and 
passive connections.
* FTPd - built-in folders aliases, you can create an alias in memory to 
a folder. This is good for apps you can make 
ftp://ftp.myServer.com/pub/ point to the desired shared folder on user 
machine. There will be no symlink or touch in the hard drive, FTPd will 
translate from one to the other in it's memory.


Nice ain't it?

Cheers
Andre



-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 13 10:55:01 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:55:01 -0400
Subject: Versions of RR
In-Reply-To: <BD428067.2BEA%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BD428067.2BEA%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C0CB950D-ED38-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 13, 2004, at 9:27 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:

> It is not the MetaCard engine.  It ceased to be when we bought it some 
> time
> ago.  We haven't updated all the strings or synced the version numbers 
> as
> those changes have to be done carefully, but we will complete doing 
> that
> over time.

My mistake.

It is NOT the MetaCard engine. Whatever it is, it isn't that.

It is the "currently in transition engine formerly known as the 
MetaCard engine" engine.

So, there is no MetaCard? Or, MetaCard is now just an openSource IDE, 
which also uses the "currently in transition engine formerly known as 
the MetaCard engine" engine?

Or, is the engine the "Revolution engine"? Or, is there ultimately no 
separate "engine" at all for end-users to be concerned with?
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Aug 13 11:21:34 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:21:34 -0700
Subject: QT in rev slower: Was Re: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs.
	other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <964DB1A2-ED1B-11D8-9072-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<964DB1A2-ED1B-11D8-9072-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <7624EEC8-ED3C-11D8-B538-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 13, 2004, at 4:26 AM, Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:
>
> On 12.08.2004, at 03:36, Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> and QT to integrate most of the other things I want to do (the 
>> interactive 3D stuff, instructive Flash animations, etc.).  I have 
>> been very pleased with Rev's performance in all of these areas.
>>
> Trevor,
> I have made an interactiv .mov file in a QT tool. If I run it as a 
> standalone its double as fast as in a rev QT Player?  (from the 
> subjectiv feeling, i cant test how fast it runs)
> What kind of secret do have that QT performs well in rev?.

I imagine your interactive movie was using wired sprites.  I *think* 
the QT original code for Rev didn't take into account wired movies, 
effects movies, etc. and so movies that didn't have a video track did 
not get serviced enough during idle since Rev assumed there was no 
image to update.  This could have been the reason that the controls for 
audio only players were not always updated correctly.

One way to fix this is to place a simple animated GIF off screen and 
that should improve performance for you on current versions of Rev.  I 
think the audio controller issue was resolved in the latest beta so 
this might no longer be an issue.  I haven't run through my QT test 
stacks in the beta yet to see what is working better and what isn't.  
That reminds me, I need to check if Rev now opens QT files with 
read/write permission so that if you edit a movie in a controller you 
can save it in place.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From Meitnik at aol.com  Fri Aug 13 11:56:05 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:56:05 EDT
Subject: "Mastering Regular expressions" book
Message-ID: <12c.48f8c7b6.2e4e3e95@aol.com>

Hi,

I am wondering if the code and teaching of regrep in this book can be done 
fully with the regrep support in rr 2.5beta? What limits or points would I have 
problems with? I need to know before a friend of mine who whats to buy the 
book for me as a gift to help me with my project and dont want to waste his funds 
if the book wont help me much with RR. 

Thanks :)
Andrew

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Aug 13 12:17:24 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:17:24 -0700
Subject: "Mastering Regular expressions" book
In-Reply-To: <12c.48f8c7b6.2e4e3e95@aol.com>
References: <12c.48f8c7b6.2e4e3e95@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1851678213.20040813091724@ahsoftware.net>

Andrew-

Doesn't directly answer your question about the book, but...

Have you seen The Regex Coach? This is where I run all my regular
expressions for a sanity check.

http://weitz.de/files/regex-coach.exe
http://weitz.de/files/regex-coach.tgz

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From kevin at runrev.com  Fri Aug 13 12:19:43 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:19:43 +0100
Subject: Versions of RR
In-Reply-To: <C0CB950D-ED38-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD42A8AF.2C1C%kevin@runrev.com>

On 13/8/04 3:55 pm, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> Or, is the engine the "Revolution engine"? Or, is there ultimately no
> separate "engine" at all for end-users to be concerned with?

I don't think you generally need to be concerned with the distinction, but
when you do, it is the Revolution engine.

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Aug 13 12:31:32 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:31:32 -0700
Subject: Tokenizer?
In-Reply-To: <19D49641-ED34-11D8-92A3-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <19D49641-ED34-11D8-92A3-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1572526943.20040813093132@ahsoftware.net>

Mark-

Friday, August 13, 2004, 7:21:43 AM, you wrote:

MB> http://www.codeguru.com/Cpp/Cpp/cpp_mfc/parsing/article.php/c781/

Thanks for the pointer! Now *that's* interesting - and I see he's also
incorporated the tokenizer class into his pascal compiler...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Aug 13 12:34:22 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:34:22 -0700
Subject: FTPd Server Side implemented in Rev!!!
In-Reply-To: <9F28EA36-ED38-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <066500A2-ECC2-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
 <a06110446bd424a344348@[141.89.100.235]>
 <9F28EA36-ED38-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <782696407.20040813093422@ahsoftware.net>

Andre-

Friday, August 13, 2004, 7:54:05 AM, you wrote:

AG> other. The main difficulty is passive connections, the clients are not
AG> connecting to the dataport, but this I'll figure today.

Passive ftp connections are weird. You may run into more firewall
problems, since I know you've already encountered those in other
situations.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 13 12:36:28 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: dBase lib
In-Reply-To: <20040812185600.C20FC30ABB@mail.rtl.org>
Message-ID: <20040813163628.86447.qmail@web60509.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dave LeYanna <dleyanna at rtl.org> wrote:
> 
> I am converting an old system that has dozens of
> tables, 50 or so custom written programs and
> semi-associated systems. I am moving little pieces
> over to PostgreSQL a little at a time because it is
> way to much to move everything at once. The old
> design needs to be reworked and has been reworked
> over the years by way to many system designers.
> 
> I need to be able to retrieve and update records in
> the old system and at the same time manipulate data
> in the new PostgreSQL system. I want the front end
> to become congruent and transparent to the two data
> storage backends. As time goes on everything will be
> in the PostgreSQL backend but for now...
> 
> Dave
> 

Hi Dave,

One option to get certain tables out of the dbf files
and into the PostgreSQL database is to write a dBase /
FoxPro application that dumps these .dbf files to an
sql script with all the INSERT statements.
I've done that before in FoxPro, and it's surprisingly
easy once you get the hang of it -- if you want more
info, don't hesitate to contact me off-list.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
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From dleyanna at rtl.org  Fri Aug 13 12:39:42 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:39:42 -0400
Subject: dBase lib
In-Reply-To: <20040813163628.86447.qmail@web60509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040813163525.6BCC030AB4@mail.rtl.org>

We do this as an interim solution when writing back to the dBase files is no
necessary IE:doing extractions or queries on the data...

Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jan Schenkel
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:36 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: RE: dBase lib

--- Dave LeYanna <dleyanna at rtl.org> wrote:
> 
> I am converting an old system that has dozens of tables, 50 or so 
> custom written programs and semi-associated systems. I am moving 
> little pieces over to PostgreSQL a little at a time because it is way 
> to much to move everything at once. The old design needs to be 
> reworked and has been reworked over the years by way to many system 
> designers.
> 
> I need to be able to retrieve and update records in the old system and 
> at the same time manipulate data in the new PostgreSQL system. I want 
> the front end to become congruent and transparent to the two data 
> storage backends. As time goes on everything will be in the PostgreSQL 
> backend but for now...
> 
> Dave
> 

Hi Dave,

One option to get certain tables out of the dbf files and into the
PostgreSQL database is to write a dBase / FoxPro application that dumps
these .dbf files to an sql script with all the INSERT statements.
I've done that before in FoxPro, and it's surprisingly easy once you get the
hang of it -- if you want more info, don't hesitate to contact me off-list.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."
(La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
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_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From mdswindell at charter.net  Fri Aug 13 12:50:25 2004
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:50:25 -0700
Subject: Best solution for building windows icon on mac?
Message-ID: <DF85583F-ED48-11D8-B420-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>

What's the best solution for building a Windows icon on MacOs or OSX 
that will be compatible with the standalone maker v 2.1?  (16 bit 744 
size)

TIA
Mark


From "kaj37 at mac.com" at mac.com  Thu Aug 12 11:32:45 2004
From: "kaj37 at mac.com" at mac.com (Kaj Schwermer)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:32:45 +0900
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 53
In-Reply-To: <20040812055704.775C99300DB@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040812055704.775C99300DB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <DBBCFB41-EC74-11D8-9235-000A9598B088@mac.com>

Nicolas,

Wow!  It's a small world, isn't it? Thanks for answering Alejandro's 
questions for me.  If anyone's qualified to discuss CALL-related issues 
in this country, it would be you.

I'll drop you a line off-list,

-Kaj


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug 13 13:05:07 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:05:07 +0200
Subject: Best solution for building windows icon on mac?
In-Reply-To: <DF85583F-ED48-11D8-B420-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
References: <DF85583F-ED48-11D8-B420-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
Message-ID: <ED60BB96-ED4A-11D8-98C4-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> What's the best solution for building a Windows icon on MacOs or OSX 
> that
> will be compatible with the standalone maker v 2.1?

I'd recommend the Photoshop plugin "IconBuilder Pro", had no probs 
creating ugly
icons in the correct filesize :-D

Get it here:

http://www.iconfactory.com/

> (16 bit 744 size)

Actually it is even worse -> 4 bit = 16 colors ;-)
AND these 16 colors have of course to be special 16 colors,
the first and last 8 colors of the win 8 bit system clut!

The worst colors of benetton :-D


But with version >= 2.2 you will need a new icon format...

> TIA
> Mark

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 13 13:36:16 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:36:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <56E79E94-ECBD-11D8-8357-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <20040813173616.17235.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gregory Lypny <gregory.lypny at videotron.ca> wrote:
> It was at least a couple of years ago that I posted
> to the MC list that 
> I thought that the (not sure of the exact titles ---
> my copies are at 
> work) HyperCard Users Manual and Language Reference
> from the original 
> boxed version were two of the most elegant and well
> written software 
> manuals I had every read. I am surprised that so few
> software companies 
> have adopted Apple's style and format or insist on
> good writing from 
> their manual writers.  Online help in general does
> not come close to 
> the usefulness of a well written manual in
> traditional print.
> 
> 	Gregory
> 

A friend of mine is a professional documentation
writer, and he told me once that a number of companies
explicitly tell him to not make the docs too clear, as
they want customers to pay for support questions.
Companies that are not looking to turn their tech
support into a profit center, will do their best to
provide good manuals ; now if you look at the vast
amount of information in the Revolution docs, all you
can say is : I wish I knew where to start looking.
But that is just one of the many items that are being
addressed with Rev 2.5

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
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From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Aug 13 14:38:05 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:38:05 -0800
Subject: Open GL tools
In-Reply-To: <20040813160015.6AAE49300DC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD424A8C.748F%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

Are there now, or will there ever likely be, Open GL tools available to Rev
for 3D object rendering?

TIA,
Ken N.


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Fri Aug 13 13:46:28 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:46:28 +0200
Subject: Best solution for building windows icon on mac?
In-Reply-To: <DF85583F-ED48-11D8-B420-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
Message-ID: <B459F91A-ED50-11D8-B128-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>

Hi,

I use Iconographer to build my icons for OSX and Windows (2K and XP).
Works with Rev 2.1 and later.
This shareware only costs 15$
http://www.mscape.com/products/iconographer.html

Thierry.

On Friday, Aug 13, 2004, at 18:50 Europe/Paris, Mark Swindell wrote:

> What's the best solution for building a Windows icon on MacOs or OSX 
> that will be compatible with the standalone maker v 2.1?  (16 bit 744 
> size)
>
> TIA
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Aug 13 14:47:56 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:47:56 -0800
Subject: MIDI tools
In-Reply-To: <20040813160015.6AAE49300DC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD424CDB.7490%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Another Q:

What about MIDI tools, specifically, can we play notes live through an
onscreen keyboard with no latency.

To get an idea of what I mean, for Mac folks who are on the SuperCard list
(Yahoo! groups), go to the files area Miscellaneous folder and D/L my latest
post there named 'Instrument2', and checkout how the keyboard works.

By permission of the owner (Jon Adams), it uses Nigel Redmond's QuickNotes
external. Would it work with Rev?  How could it be implemented
cross-platform (the thing I'm interested in for these experiments)? I
wouldn't have a clue how to transform it into a Windows-useable DLL.

TIA,
Ken N.


From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 13 13:49:19 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:49:19 -0400
Subject: Open GL tools
In-Reply-To: <BD424A8C.748F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BD424A8C.748F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <19EEF20D-ED51-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 13, 2004, at 2:38 PM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:

> Are there now, or will there ever likely be, Open GL tools available 
> to Rev
> for 3D object rendering?

No, there are not currently such abilities.

..."Ever likely to be"...?

< shaking magic 8-ball >

"Maybe"

Somebody was doing some work on it, but apparently gave up. Kevin 
Miller was trying to get it back on track, but it didn't sound very 
positive to me. Who knows?

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 13 12:22:38 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:22:38 -0400
Subject: Versions of RR
In-Reply-To: <BD42A8AF.2C1C%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BD42A8AF.2C1C%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <FE66A409-ED44-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 13, 2004, at 12:19 PM, Kevin Miller wrote:

> it is the Revolution engine.

Well, it has a nice ring to it.  ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Fri Aug 13 14:18:50 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:18:50 -0400
Subject: Best solution for building windows icon on mac?
In-Reply-To: <B459F91A-ED50-11D8-B128-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>
References: <B459F91A-ED50-11D8-B128-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <39C2520A-ED55-11D8-B9C7-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

I'm also finding that Iconographer works quite well.  I have 
Iconographer X 2.5 here, and I can use that to make both Mac and 
Windows icons.



On Aug 13, 2004, at 13:46, Thierry Arbellot wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I use Iconographer to build my icons for OSX and Windows (2K and XP).
> Works with Rev 2.1 and later.
> This shareware only costs 15$
> http://www.mscape.com/products/iconographer.html
>
> Thierry.
>
> On Friday, Aug 13, 2004, at 18:50 Europe/Paris, Mark Swindell wrote:
>
>> What's the best solution for building a Windows icon on MacOs or OSX 
>> that will be compatible with the standalone maker v 2.1?  (16 bit 744 
>> size)
>>
>> TIA
>> Mark
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



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From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Aug 13 14:19:47 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:19:47 -0600
Subject: OS X Standalone (mis)behavior
In-Reply-To: <E92F8FF6-EC76-11D8-88CF-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOEFAEOAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
 <E92F8FF6-EC76-11D8-88CF-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <5BA2B444-ED55-11D8-88CF-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Well, as I was doing some testing to try to come up with a recipe for 
this, my experiments started pointing to a cause outside of Rev. There 
may be something going on within OS X that somehow "remembers" the 
creator type for a previous version and when a new version with the 
same name but different creator type tries to launch the OS gets 
confused and refuses to launch it.

This is what I did that makes me suspect the OS:
I copied the 2.2 compiled version to my file server, but to a different 
directory than the one that is refusing to launch. I launch my app, it 
works perfectly. Then I copy the application to the original directory 
on the server (remember it has the same name as the previous, rev 
2.1-compiled version, which launched normallly, but in 2.2 I left the 
creator name as ???? and in the 2.1 version I used RApp.) The copy now 
WILL NOT LAUNCH. If I go back to the other directory, the application 
launches fine. This makes me suspect that OS X is retaining some kind 
of information about the path name to the application and its creator 
type and if something doesn't match up to what it expects, the launch 
is aborted.

I'll continue to watch and play with it, but for now it doesn't appear 
to be a Rev problem.

Devin

On Aug 12, 2004, at 9:47 AM, Devin Asay wrote:

> Monte,
>
> Now I've heard others have had it, I'll try to come up with a recipe 
> and then bugzilla it.
>
> Devin
>
> On Aug 11, 2004, at 5:10 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>
>>
>>>> Any ideas? Maybe I'm doing something wrong when I am building the
>>>> standalone under 2.2?
>>>
>>> I've seen the zooming-without-launching effect too. I have no idea if
>>> this has been identified and logged with bugzilla though.
>>
>> No it hasn't. There are only two bugs on the standalone builder and 
>> both are
>> PENDING. Without wishing to sound rude, it's a little frustrating to 
>> see
>> "I've seen that too" posts when a bug is discussed on the list and 
>> still
>> nothing in bugzilla. Please post to bugzilla so we can keep a record 
>> of the
>> issue. I'm not sure I have enough info to fix this yet though...
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> --
>>   Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
>>   Sweat Technologies

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Aug 13 14:21:50 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:21:50 -0700
Subject: Versions of RR
In-Reply-To: <C0CB950D-ED38-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <BD428067.2BEA%kevin@runrev.com>
	<C0CB950D-ED38-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411D06BE.7000703@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:
 > On Aug 13, 2004, at 9:27 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:
 >
 >> It is not the MetaCard engine.  It ceased to be when we bought
 >> it some time ago.  We haven't updated all the strings or synced
 >> the version numbers as those changes have to be done carefully,
 >> but we will complete doing that over time.
 >
 > My mistake.
 >
 > It is NOT the MetaCard engine. Whatever it is, it isn't that.
 >
 > It is the "currently in transition engine formerly known as
 > the MetaCard engine" engine.
 >
 > So, there is no MetaCard? Or, MetaCard is now just an openSource IDE,
 > which also uses the "currently in transition engine formerly known as
 > the MetaCard engine" engine?
 >
 > Or, is the engine the "Revolution engine"? Or, is there ultimately
 > no separate "engine" at all for end-users to be concerned with?

In the beginning (1992, to be precise) Scott Raney created the MetaCard 
engine, and it was good.

But the engine is by design completely faceless, so he made a simple IDE 
for it so it could be used.  The IDE was also good, but unless you think 
Motif is the bee's knees it was likely to be somewhat off-putting: 
while the engine works hard to make native appearances for each 
platform, there was little effort put into having the MetaCard IDE use 
those features to get a native feel on any platfom other than UNIX.

For many years a number of folks kept asking if there might be greater 
marketing potential if a new IDE was built on top of the proven powerful 
engine.  We all knew the engine was incredibly powerful, and certainly 
underutilized given its unquestionable value for professional development.

One company answered that question a few years ago: Crossworlds of 
Edinburgh licensed the engine from MetaCard Corp., built a new IDE for 
it, and changed the name of their company to Runtime Revolution Ltd. to 
reflect the brand of this new product.

In June of last year RunRev reached a major milestone: acquiring the 
source code for the engine from MetaCard Corp.  And so the 
engine-formerly-known-as-MetaCard is now known as the Revolution engine.

The engine remains faceless, and both IDEs remain as stack files 
separate from the engine.  The Revolution IDE ships with the product and 
is used by some 99% of Transcript programmers, with most former MetaCard 
customers having migrated to the Rev IDE.  The MC IDE was converted to 
an open source project at the time of the acquisition, and is maintained 
by a team of about a half-dozen ol' timers who are too stuck in their 
ways to make the switch. ;)  There are at least two other IDEs in 
development that I know of; there may be more.

An IDE is essentially just a collection of stacks that set properties, 
and the engine's flexibility allows a nearly infinite variety of IDEs to 
be built for it.

If I had nothing but time on my hands I've been itching to make an 
iShell-like IDE just to show off the engine's versatility.  But with so 
many folks already enjoying Rev, even if I somehow got the time I'd 
probably implement it as a plugin so folks could use it easily within 
their favorite IDE.

Although an IDE is just a collection of property-setting stacks, booting 
into anything other than Rev's requires some rather unintuitive steps. 
Plugins provide the ability to craft your own development tools with a 
much simpler way to install and use them -- just drop 'em into the 
Plugins folder.

As the number of plugins continues to grow every week, the role of an 
IDE is becomming more clearly a rack onto which you can hang any number 
of your own tools. In essence, each of us can have our own customized 
IDE, perfectly tailored for our own specific workflow and preferences.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Aug 13 15:58:59 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 16:58:59 -0300
Subject: some trouble with PASV/EPSV (Re: FTPd Server Side implemented in
	Rev!!!)
In-Reply-To: <782696407.20040813093422@ahsoftware.net>
References: <066500A2-ECC2-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<a06110446bd424a344348@[141.89.100.235]>
	<9F28EA36-ED38-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<782696407.20040813093422@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <379D10E8-ED63-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 13, 2004, at 1:34 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

>
> Passive ftp connections are weird. You may run into more firewall
> problems, since I know you've already encountered those in other
> situations.
>

Mark,

yes, I am beggining to hate proxies and firewalls from the deep of my 
heart. The problem is that I must support passive connections (PASV and 
EPSV) for that's the way browsers connect to ftp daemons. Browsers are 
very talkative blokes, they don't like listening, so if you fail to 
support passive connections they'll just give up trying. since I am 
integrating everything in my server side libs, I must support 
browsers...

I think my code is right. Server send a EPSV/PASV command, I shout the 
port I am now listening and start accepting connections on that port. 
The connections never arrive. When using the command-line ftp tool, it 
works flawlessly, when using browser, it fails to connect to the 
dataport, the control port works fine.... any clue?

cheers
Andre


> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Aug 13 16:07:37 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:07:37 -0300
Subject: FTPd Server Side implemented in Rev!!!
In-Reply-To: <411C3415.1000300@chipp.com>
References: <066500A2-ECC2-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<411C3415.1000300@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <6C77FF12-ED64-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 13, 2004, at 12:23 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Andre, that's great!
> Give me a Paypal link and let me contribute to your fine handiwork :-)
>
> best,
>
> Chipp
>

Chipp,

Thanks for the support man! This lib is gonna be great! my paypal 
account is under agarzia at mac.com

Active connections are already working, passives are giving me some 
trouble...

cheers
Andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Fri Aug 13 16:05:54 2004
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:05:54 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev / typing Japanese
References: <20040813113338.EA2659300FE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <411D1F22.7070209@pacbell.net>

Nicolas Cueto said,



> &'():]+*}

> the corresponding result onscreen is...

> ^&*('\:"|

> Oh well...


Watch your language! Women and children may be listening! 

 :-P 

Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491




From nnoydb at excite.com  Fri Aug 13 16:09:36 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 16:09:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Tokenizer?
Message-ID: <20040813200936.586763E07@xprdmailfe11.nwk.excite.com>



I was actually looking for one written completely in REV.  It is anoying to write a external for BSD, LINUX, OSX, OS9, WIN32, SUN Solaris, AIX.  I wish RR had a declares API so I could just use the open source versions with make files already provided.

Kevin


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Fri 08/13, Mark Wieder < mwieder at ahsoftware.net > wrote:
From: Mark Wieder [mailto: mwieder at ahsoftware.net]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:31:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Tokenizer?

Mark-<br><br>Friday, August 13, 2004, 7:21:43 AM, you wrote:<br><br>MB> http://www.codeguru.com/Cpp/Cpp/cpp_mfc/parsing/article.php/c781/<br><br>Thanks for the pointer! Now *that's* interesting - and I see he's also<br>incorporated the tokenizer class into his pascal compiler...<br><br>-- <br>-Mark Wieder<br> mwieder at ahsoftware.net<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From bvg at mac.com  Fri Aug 13 16:38:56 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 22:38:56 +0200
Subject: [ANN]ChatRev 1.0
Message-ID: <CC4C0DD3-ED68-11D8-94B4-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>

Dear developers

After the fun chat we had in the AIM/iChat room I wanted more. 
Especially more chatters. But most of you seem to not chat that often, 
so I envisioned a devious plan to get you all hooked. I made a chat in 
RunRev!

ChatRev features colorisation, slash-commands, private messages and 
many other state of the art chat features. You can start it by typing 
this into the message box:
go stack url "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.0.rev"

You can also look at the server by going to this stack:
go stack url "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrevserver1.0.rev"

ChatRev and ChatrevServer are released into the public domain, so 
everyone can do whatever they want with it. a small mention of my name 
would be appreciated of course ;)

Note that you need a place to upload a small file with your ip, or a 
static ip for hosting your own chatrev. for your own server to work you 
also need to make some changes in the scripts of the client, which does 
currently not support multiple hosts.

have fun!
Bjoernke von Gierke

<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.0.rev"


From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 13 16:57:45 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 16:57:45 -0400
Subject: [ANN]ChatRev 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CC4C0DD3-ED68-11D8-94B4-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
References: <CC4C0DD3-ED68-11D8-94B4-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6CFF1803-ED6B-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 13, 2004, at 4:38 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

> After the fun chat we had in the AIM/iChat room I wanted more. 
> Especially more chatters. But most of you seem to not chat that often, 
> so I envisioned a devious plan to get you all hooked. I made a chat in 
> RunRev!

OK. That is really cool.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Fri Aug 13 17:00:29 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:00:29 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <CEDAE744-ED6B-11D8-BC70-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 11, 2004, at 11:50 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> Compared to the hordes written in Revolution you mean? Let's face it, 
> there have been hundreds of commercial apps written in Director. 
> Though, given the admitted multimedia bent to them, MOST of them are 
> educational and activity CD ROMS for kids. But they are on the shelves 
> of every computer store in the world as we speak. How many Rev apps 
> are?

Just for fun I shall mention that my apps are in about 2000 stores 
across the U.S.  ;)

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 13 17:08:37 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:08:37 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <CEDAE744-ED6B-11D8-BC70-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<CEDAE744-ED6B-11D8-BC70-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <F1EA65B0-ED6C-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 13, 2004, at 5:00 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:

> Just for fun I shall mention that my apps are in about 2000 stores 
> across the U.S.  ;)

Well OKay!

That is fun, isn't it?  ;-)

Seriously though - that is a good thing.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Aug 13 17:29:03 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:29:03 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040813173616.17235.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040813173616.17235.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8420377511.20040813142903@ahsoftware.net>

Jan-

Friday, August 13, 2004, 10:36:16 AM, you wrote:

JS> writer, and he told me once that a number of companies
JS> explicitly tell him to not make the docs too clear, as
JS> they want customers to pay for support questions.

I had the experience once in putting together an sdk where I was told
not to put in "too many" source code examples.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Aug 13 17:50:08 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:50:08 -0700
Subject: some trouble with PASV/EPSV (Re: FTPd Server Side implemented
	in Rev!!!)
In-Reply-To: <379D10E8-ED63-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <066500A2-ECC2-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
 <a06110446bd424a344348@[141.89.100.235]>
 <9F28EA36-ED38-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
 <782696407.20040813093422@ahsoftware.net>
 <379D10E8-ED63-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <16321642960.20040813145008@ahsoftware.net>

Andre-

Here's the relevant section of RFC959. Note that PASV mode requests
the server to listen on a specific port, and the server respsonds with
the host address and listening port. In particular, I think you will
be processing message 227, although 228 and 229 may come into play:

http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/959/22.htm

If you want to support ipv6 you'll need the EPSV command as well:

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2428.html

Also, notice some security measures you might think about coding into
the server mechanics:

http://cr.yp.to/ftp/security.html

...and there's a rather excellent explanation of passive mode ftp at
http://slacksite.com/other/ftp.html

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 13 18:11:10 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:11:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wait with messages
In-Reply-To: <8F74FB83-ECC2-11D8-859F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040813221110.63432.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> 
> On Aug 12, 2004, at 6:16 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:
> 
> > if you had your website URL as part of your
> > signoff then it would be easier to find
> > your stacks!
> 
> Like this?
> 
> Dar
> 
> ****************************************
>      Dar Scott Consulting
>      http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
>      Programming Services
> ****************************************

yeah!

now i can go to the shop and download
that messages stack.

Erik Hansen


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From europe at ehug.info  Fri Aug 13 19:33:39 2004
From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 01:33:39 +0200
Subject: the script - The ugly details of what I am trying to do.
In-Reply-To: <20040811173440.129661BCA1@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040811173440.129661BCA1@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <411D4FD3.3070508@ehug.info>

Hi Kevin,

I've notice that you have posted your question several times.
What about this very simple example:

on preOpenStack
   if the target is ("card" && quote & "revscript" & quote) then
     answer "You're going to edit a script" with "Okay" or ?
     "Cancel"
     if it is "Cancel" then
       close stack "revScriptEditor 1"
     end if
   end if
   pass preOpenStack
end preOpenStack

Unfortunately, not passing the preOpenStack handler may mess up
objects in the stack revscript. So, please be careful and do
extensive tests before releasing anything with scripts like 
these. This script should be sufficient if you want to change 
scripts before they are opened.

The editScript message is sent before the script editor opens,
according to the docs. I have tested this and it is not true (in
Rev 2.2.1). I have filed this as bug 1973:

<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1973>

Not sure whether this is a real bug or a mistake in the docs.

The editScript message doesn't work while the development
environment is active, according to the docs. This is true most
of the time. Then again, I wonder what an editScript message is
good for if it doesn't work in the development environment. Who
wants to edit a script outside of the development environment???

The revEditScript message should be sent to plug-ins, but it
isn't. See bug 692.

<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=692>

This has been announced to be fixed in Rev 2.5, but I can't test
that right now. In the next release of Rev, using a plug-in that
intercepts the revEditScript message and sends a message to your
stack might offer a solution, but not if your purpose really is
to prevent people from editing scripts.

For the latter, password protection is probably the right thing, 
but that could also have disadvantages (e.g. password protected 
stacks cannot be included as substacks in a standalone (Rev. 
2.2.1)).

Mark

K wrote:
> 
> The editScript message is a after the fact process. I need to
> munge the script prior to it being set. Since the script with
> my macros is not necessarily valid and may encounter several
> if a multitude of errors. I was wondering if I could place a
> setProp/getProp handler in the front scripts to intercept the
> script upon storage and retrieval. This would allow me to
> expand/collapse the code.
> 
> Parser Expand and Callopse are a implementation of the GOLD
> parser with whatever syntax table you would like to use.
> 
> 
> function parserExpand aScript
> 
> -- --Do Something --
> 
> return tExpanded
> 
> end parserExpand
> 
> function parserCollapse aScript
> 
> -- --Do Something --
> 
> return tCallapsed
> 
> end parserCollapse
> 
> setProp script aScript -- --Now here is the real problem will
> the call to set the script --go to the appropriate object
> since this is a front script? -- set the script to
> parserExpand( aScript )
> 
> end script
> 
> getProp script
> 
> 
> -- --Now here is the real problem will the call to set the
> script --go to the appropriate object since this is a front
> script? -- put the script into tScript
> 
> return parserCollapse( tScript )
> 
> end script
> 
> Kevin

-- 

eHUG coordinator
mailto:europe at ehug.info
fax: +1 501 633 94 04
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.ehug.info


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 13 18:39:47 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:39:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Educational uses for Rev -- profs talk to gamers?
In-Reply-To: <12109D5E-EC65-11D8-AB83-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <20040813223947.4644.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gregory Lypny <gregory.lypny at videotron.ca>
wrote:

> Unfortunately, most of what I see from
> academics who mess around with 
> technology in teaching, amounts to simplistic
> web-based animations.  

perhaps because they don't see computers as
more than a gimmicky folder file?

when i suggested to a biologist that her plant
growth
website could do even more with animation
showing incremental progress, the reaction was
a defensive "oh yes, and i could add some waving
arms!" no, she was not a programmer.

a math prof felt that animating the progress of
a mathematical function was a cop-out, not real
thought. 

a class in neural networking i once took
had  step-wise representation of a function's
progress in a Variable Watcher and in a graph.
i never would have gotten the idea from the
prose.

many "get" the concept of a sine wave only
after seeing a visual representation.

maybe the profs should talk to the game writers?

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
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From cassj at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 13 20:00:24 2004
From: cassj at earthlink.net (James Cass)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 20:00:24 -0400
Subject: Open GL tools
In-Reply-To: <19EEF20D-ED51-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <BD424A8C.748F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
	<19EEF20D-ED51-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <F0E96CE6-ED84-11D8-9B6D-000D93C26DB4@earthlink.net>

Funny how the collective-consciousness of the internet works.....

>> Are there now, or will there ever likely be, Open GL tools available 
>> to Rev
>> for 3D object rendering?
>
> No, there are not currently such abilities.
>
> ..."Ever likely to be"...?
>
> < shaking magic 8-ball >
>
> "Maybe"


On Aug 13, 2004, at 1:49 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 13, 2004, at 2:38 PM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:
>
>> Are there now, or will there ever likely be, Open GL tools available 
>> to Rev
>> for 3D object rendering?
>
> No, there are not currently such abilities.
>
> ..."Ever likely to be"...?
>
> < shaking magic 8-ball >
>
> "Maybe"
>
> Somebody was doing some work on it, but apparently gave up. Kevin 
> Miller was trying to get it back on track, but it didn't sound very 
> positive to me. Who knows?
>
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Aug 13 21:10:12 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:10:12 -0800
Subject: Open GL tools
In-Reply-To: <20040813200702.DD02E930103@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD42A673.7497%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Troy,

> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:49:19 -0400
> From: Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net>
> Subject: Re: Open GL tools
> 
> 
> On Aug 13, 2004, at 2:38 PM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:
> 
>> Are there now, or will there ever likely be, Open GL tools available
>> to Rev
>> for 3D object rendering?
> 
> No, there are not currently such abilities.

I didn't think so. :-(

> ..."Ever likely to be"...?
> 
> < shaking magic 8-ball >
> 
> "Maybe"
> 
> Somebody was doing some work on it, but apparently gave up. Kevin
> Miller was trying to get it back on track, but it didn't sound very
> positive to me. Who knows?

Well, you've heard more than me. It would be nice, though.

Ken N.


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Aug 13 21:18:13 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 20:18:13 -0500
Subject: Best solution for building windows icon on mac?
In-Reply-To: <DF85583F-ED48-11D8-B420-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
References: <DF85583F-ED48-11D8-B420-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
Message-ID: <411D6855.9030901@chipp.com>

Hi Mark,

I have a tutorial called "Standalone Builder Tutorial" at 
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/runrev/Tutorials.htm which you may 
find useful...

-Chipp

Mark Swindell wrote:

> What's the best solution for building a Windows icon on MacOs or OSX 
> that will be compatible with the standalone maker v 2.1?  (16 bit 744 size)


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Aug 13 21:26:48 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 20:26:48 -0500
Subject: [ANN]ChatRev 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CC4C0DD3-ED68-11D8-94B4-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
References: <CC4C0DD3-ED68-11D8-94B4-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <411D6A58.9060806@chipp.com>

Thanks Bj?rnke,

Now we need to add a 'doorbell' so we can know if someone is in the chat 
room!

-Chipp

From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 13 21:55:18 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 21:55:18 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
Message-ID: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>

Hey all,

I'm playing with fields that are supposed to work like multi-column 
tables. I must be missing whatever the secret is, as they just don't 
seem to be behaving properly. This is really my first foray with them, 
and something is just not right. I also tested them in the beta1, and 
didn't really notice any difference, so I bring it here.

The table should have 3 columns. I've accomplished this via setting tab 
stops... 292,425,691 (691 is actually just off the right hand edge, 
otherwise the last column gets a column separator right inside of it.)

In the "Table palette" of the PI, I have Table Object, hGrid, and vGrid 
selected. Though Table object selected or not doesn't seem to make any 
difference in the behavior.

Vertical scrollbar is turned on, Horizontal is off. LockLoc is on.

The problem - the table object seems to have a will of its own when it 
comes to horizontal size, adding columns to some arbitrary size that I 
can't figure out where it is getting it, turning on its H scrollbar, 
and scrolling sideways when tab is pressed.

I'm sure there must be a property not being set, or something, but I 
don't know which one it is. Anyone have a table tutorial stack, or 
advise on how to make a multi-column field which behaves like a proper 
table?

Thanks.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Aug 13 21:56:15 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:56:15 -0600
Subject: library stack in plugins
Message-ID: <20426DD6-ED95-11D8-A5C7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

How do I put a library stack into the plugins folder to support plugins 
without it becoming a plugin?

****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 13 22:03:46 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 22:03:46 -0400
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <8420377511.20040813142903@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20040813173616.17235.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
	<8420377511.20040813142903@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <2D60E60A-ED96-11D8-A1B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

That s*cks!  On the other hand, Discovery Systems who used to market 
Course Builder (not to be confused with the Adobe product of the same 
name) had my undying loyalty because whenever you asked them a tech 
support question, not only did they answer it they often also included 
a sample snippet of code.  Kinda like what folks do on this list.

M

On Aug 13, 2004, at 5:29 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Jan-
>
> Friday, August 13, 2004, 10:36:16 AM, you wrote:
>
> JS> writer, and he told me once that a number of companies
> JS> explicitly tell him to not make the docs too clear, as
> JS> they want customers to pay for support questions.
>
> I had the experience once in putting together an sdk where I was told
> not to put in "too many" source code examples.
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mdswindell at charter.net  Fri Aug 13 22:08:21 2004
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:08:21 -0700
Subject: [ANN]ChatRev 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CC4C0DD3-ED68-11D8-94B4-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
References: <CC4C0DD3-ED68-11D8-94B4-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D1405080-ED96-11D8-97F0-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>

Extremely cool!  I'm impressed.

Mark

On Aug 13, 2004, at 1:38 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

> http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.0.rev

From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 13 22:49:59 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 22:49:59 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <A2237EEE-ED9C-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 13, 2004, at 9:55 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> I'm sure there must be a property not being set, or something, but I 
> don't know which one it is. Anyone have a table tutorial stack, or 
> advise on how to make a multi-column field which behaves like a proper 
> table?

Incidentally, the sample contained in Chipp Walters' (very cool) 
altFieldHeader plugin shows the same issue, you can tab past the right 
hand edge of the table, causing a horizontal scroll, which the header 
cannot stay aligned with.

Specifically, the issue is with editable fields which are supposed to 
work like tables (cell editing or not). The documentation says that as 
of Rev 2.2, tables can show only a subset of their columns if desired, 
but it doesn't seem to elaborate of how this is accomplished. I haven't 
figured that one out yet either, or if it would help in the issue 
anyway.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug 14 01:26:29 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 07:26:29 +0200
Subject: Tokenizer?
In-Reply-To: <20040813200936.586763E07@xprdmailfe11.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEKMGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

could my transcriptolator help?

It has a bunch of parsers but it's far from finished. I have to atomize
the different parsers into generic functions still...

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of K
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 22:10
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Tokenizer?
>
>
>
>
> I was actually looking for one written completely in REV.  It is
> anoying to write a external for BSD, LINUX, OSX, OS9, WIN32, SUN
> Solaris, AIX.  I wish RR had a declares API so I could just use
> the open source versions with make files already provided.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
> Disclaimer:
>
> Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
> employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
> coincidental.
> Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.
>
>  The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
> them
> is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
> the reader
>  is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient.
> (A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
> scope of this article.)
>
>
>
>  --- On Fri 08/13, Mark Wieder < mwieder at ahsoftware.net > wrote:
> From: Mark Wieder [mailto: mwieder at ahsoftware.net]
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:31:32 -0700
> Subject: Re: Tokenizer?
>
> Mark-<br><br>Friday, August 13, 2004, 7:21:43 AM, you
> wrote:<br><br>MB>
> http://www.codeguru.com/Cpp/Cpp/cpp_mfc/parsing/article.php/c781/<
br><br>Thanks for the pointer! Now *that's* interesting - and I see he's
also<br>incorporated the tokenizer class into his pascal
compiler...<br><br>-- <br>-Mark Wieder<br>
mwieder at ahsoftware.net<br><br>______________________________________________
_<br>use-revolution mailing
list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/l
istinfo/use-revoluti


_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug 14 01:36:32 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 07:36:32 +0200
Subject: Best solution for building windows icon on mac?
In-Reply-To: <411D6855.9030901@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEKMGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


what about building mac icons on windows? ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Chipp
> Walters
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 03:18
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Best solution for building windows icon on mac?
> 
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I have a tutorial called "Standalone Builder Tutorial" at 
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/runrev/Tutorials.htm which you may 
> find useful...
> 
> -Chipp
> 
> Mark Swindell wrote:
> 
> > What's the best solution for building a Windows icon on MacOs or OSX 
> > that will be compatible with the standalone maker v 2.1?  (16 
> bit 744 size)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Aug 14 02:14:53 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 01:14:53 -0500
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>

Hi Troy,

I don't use the Rev table object, but if I wanted to do what you want to 
do using a field I'd do it like this:

trap the tabkey (on tabKey) in the field, then check the number of tabs 
in the selectedLine, and execute the appropriate business logic based 
upon where your cursor is (selectedChar function)-- either pass the 
tabKey or move the cusor (select char 12 to 11 of me).

OR create your own table group consisting of separate fields next to 
each other.

best,

Chipp

Troy Rollins wrote:

> The table should have 3 columns. I've accomplished this via setting tab 
> stops... 292,425,691 (691 is actually just off the right hand edge, 
> otherwise the last column gets a column separator right inside of it.)
> 
> In the "Table palette" of the PI, I have Table Object, hGrid, and vGrid 
> selected. Though Table object selected or not doesn't seem to make any 
> difference in the behavior.
> 
> Vertical scrollbar is turned on, Horizontal is off. LockLoc is on.
> 
> The problem - the table object seems to have a will of its own when it 
> comes to horizontal size, adding columns to some arbitrary size that I 
> can't figure out where it is getting it, turning on its H scrollbar, and 
> scrolling sideways when tab is pressed.
> 
> I'm sure there must be a property not being set, or something, but I 
> don't know which one it is. Anyone have a table tutorial stack, or 
> advise on how to make a multi-column field which behaves like a proper 
> table?


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug 14 02:25:58 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 02:25:58 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 14, 2004, at 2:14 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I don't use the Rev table object, but if I wanted to do what you want  
> to do using a field I'd do it like this:

What do you use? The other two options you mention? Or something else?

>
> trap the tabkey (on tabKey) in the field, then check the number of  
> tabs in the selectedLine, and execute the appropriate business logic  
> based upon where your cursor is (selectedChar function)-- either pass  
> the tabKey or move the cusor (select char 12 to 11 of me).

Yeah, thanks. I was considering something like that.

>
> OR create your own table group consisting of separate fields next to  
> each other.

;-) Yeah, was considering that too.

None of those solutions are really all that inspiring, unfortunately.  
We really need an actual data grid, with headers, etc. I can certainly  
make due for this project, but I encourage folks to jump on Bugzilla  
and add your voice to this important feature request...

<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi? 
id=670>

57 votes so far!
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Aug 14 03:01:13 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:01:13 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <2D60E60A-ED96-11D8-A1B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <20040813173616.17235.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
	<8420377511.20040813142903@ahsoftware.net>
	<2D60E60A-ED96-11D8-A1B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <411DB8B9.30903@fourthworld.com>

Marian Petrides wrote:

> That s*cks!  On the other hand, Discovery Systems who used to market 
> Course Builder (not to be confused with the Adobe product of the same 
> name) had my undying loyalty because whenever you asked them a tech 
> support question, not only did they answer it they often also included a 
> sample snippet of code.  Kinda like what folks do on this list.

More "small world" xTalk trivia:  Course Builder was what Bill Appleton
made before he made SuperCard.

What I found most interesting about talking with him on that was his
disappointment with iconic programming:  he felt it was ultimately too
limited to be very useful for anything but the simplest of tasks.  That
disappointment with iconic programming became a big part of his
motivation for making a scripting product.

I've been looking into iconic and other visual programming tools as a
possible answer for education tool, a la KidSim.

But the more I look into it, the more I've noticed one salient oddity
about visual programming languages as a whole:  most papers published
about such things span from the mid-80s to the mid-90s, with almost no
new developments in the last decade.  Indeed, commercial tools like
Cocoa (the original SK8-based sim-building tool which later became
KidSim), Prograph, Icon Author, and Authorware are either dead or dying.

So is it the case that all of the truly visual programming languages are
gone?  Or have I just missed some really cool work going on out there?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug 14 03:47:09 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:47:09 +0200
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <411DB8B9.30903@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEKNGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


> But the more I look into it, the more I've noticed one salient oddity
> about visual programming languages as a whole:  most papers published
> about such things span from the mid-80s to the mid-90s, with almost no
> new developments in the last decade.  Indeed, commercial tools like
> Cocoa (the original SK8-based sim-building tool which later became
> KidSim), Prograph, Icon Author, and Authorware are either dead or dying.
>
> So is it the case that all of the truly visual programming languages are
> gone?  Or have I just missed some really cool work going on out there?

I tried prograph but it got quite confusing and tedious to dig through
a hierachy of objects to click. Soon enough you had 20 million windows
opened! But the concept is superb. Too bad it didn't work so well after all.

I tried also VIP-C from Mainstay. Half-C IDE and a HyperCard-like gui
builder
but with the ugly c code. It had 3D, all the right stuff but it came back
again to C debugging and using yet another product to compile the app if all
went well after the build. Not to bad, I developped C codecs with it for a
while. What was nice was the segmentation of the different application parts
much like Flash does now. The script editor has a nice logical graphic of
your code too which was clickeable to jump to the code. I think it still
runs and sells and could be used to create xcmds for macs. You could use
metroworks or other compilers to make the apps.

RR is still better IMOHO. Im trying to compare Rev graphics with graphics in
Flash and see how that works... It seems like a nice environment but much
more confusing than RR... so far...


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Aug 14 05:24:38 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 02:24:38 -0700
Subject: Open GL tools
In-Reply-To: <19EEF20D-ED51-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD432866.1293B%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Ken Norris asked:

>> Are there now, or will there ever likely be, Open GL tools available
>> to Rev for 3D object rendering?


Troy Rollins wrote:

> No, there are not currently such abilities.


Since I haven't seen any responses to this yet, I thought I'd chime in on
behalf of the iGame3D folks.  They have had a very cool and complex external
(Windows/Mac) in the works for some time now (see the list archives).  They
are primarily interested in creating a game development environment, but
have already tapped into much of what openGL offers.

At the recent Masters Summit conference in Monterey, I demonstrated a
developmental version of our own take on a 3D tool tentatively called
Stylizer3D.  Based on the iGame folks' technology, the goal is to provide a
set of primitive shapes with basic control over position, lighting and
textures.  Ideally we'd like to allow for importing vector information (ie
EPS or possibly Rev pointlists) -- Alejandro Tejada, are you listening? :-)

I can't say when any of this will be available for use, but the iGame guys
are working on it.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From bvg at mac.com  Sat Aug 14 05:46:48 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 11:46:48 +0200
Subject: [ANN]ChatRev 1.0
In-Reply-To: <411D6A58.9060806@chipp.com>
References: <CC4C0DD3-ED68-11D8-94B4-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
	<411D6A58.9060806@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <DC94A93B-EDD6-11D8-94B4-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>

On Aug 14 2004, at 03:26, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Thanks Bj?rnke,
>
> Now we need to add a 'doorbell' so we can know if someone is in the 
> chat room!
>

Well, I already got a List of features for 2.0:

individual colours
allow each chatter to have his own colour, but I am unsure about this, 
might not implement it.

spam filter
What if someone sends infinite messages? need to accommodate for that.

sound alert
sound alerts when someone posts a message or logs in/out.

ignore
ignoring a offensive chatter.

editing "real name" mouseover
so you can put status messages there.

clickable links
posted links should be clickable and direct you to its content.

double login bug
When someone logs in twice in short succession, without properly login 
out he appears twice in the chat.

pong <> error message
pong happens too often to be a error message remove it.

maybe pong bug?
I am not sure if there is a bug with the ping / pong messages getting 
send too often.

<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.0.rev"


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sat Aug 14 07:44:03 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 13:44:03 +0200
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040813173616.17235.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040813173616.17235.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3DA8A784-EDE7-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 13.08.2004, at 19:36, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> A friend of mine is a professional documentation
> writer, and he told me once that a number of companies
> explicitly tell him to not make the docs too clear, as
> they want customers to pay for support questions.
>

We call that microsoftionising of the world...=;(

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speelearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Sat Aug 14 08:31:40 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 08:31:40 -0400
Subject: Make tables more spread-sheet-like
In-Reply-To: <20040814062325.D9426930122@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD437E6C.25FE%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

Come on only 62 votes for this so far! If we vote enough maybe we will see
this feature for the next release! At least the weird tabbing bugs will be
removed. I'd like to see the tables behave like a mini-spreadsheet (of
course without the math). A very similar thing was available in Reports
Nine-To-Five and very useful. It would also be very useful for making
reports for printing. This way you can make a view of organized data that is
editable (either gathered from cards or from your database) and re-size-able
by the user.

Bug number 670

PS: Download Revzilla if you don't like the interface for Bugzilla. Revzilla
is incredible (and there is an example of a table there which needs the
ability to have it's columns resized by the user).

Just go to:

<http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/RevZilla.htm>

And follow the instructions.


On 8/14/04 2:23 AM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>> 
>> OR create your own table group consisting of separate fields next to
>> each other.
> 
folks to jump on Bugzilla
> and add your voice to this important feature request...
> 
> <http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?
> id=670>
> 
> 57 votes so far!
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From markgreenberg at cox.net  Sat Aug 14 10:09:07 2004
From: markgreenberg at cox.net (Mark Greenberg)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 07:09:07 -0700
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 62
In-Reply-To: <20040814062325.BC5DE930121@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <81B594CF-EDFB-11D8-BFA0-000A959B61BE@cox.net>


On Friday, August 13, 2004, at 11:23 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:

> many "get" the concept of a sine wave only
> after seeing a visual representation.
>
> maybe the profs should talk to the game writers?

I usually don't pipe up in this list, feeling somewhat like a meerkat 
among lions and elephants, but now we're talking about my field.

As much money as we pour into school computers in the US, you'd think 
we'd use them for more than just typing, keeping grades, and Internet 
research.  The problem is that kids (who play video games) and 
programmers can see the possibilities like variable-dependent animation 
and game-like user interaction.  The vast majority of teachers think of 
computers as business machines with tools like spreadsheets, databases, 
and word processors.

For about 7 years my students have been using computers to learn 
through games that I have designed, and they have made presentations 
that include variable dependent animation.  For instance, one student 
made a stack that painted a picture randomly in one of a dozen color 
schemes and the player had to click on the type of color scheme.  
Another made a graph under the normal curve (for Stat class) that 
animated according to three different variables, all entered by the 
user.  There are scores more.

One interesting site that advances the view of using video-game 
metaphor as an educational design for programming is 
http://www.marcprensky.com/.

Mark Greenberg
English Teacher
Revolutionary

From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sat Aug 14 10:02:55 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 07:02:55 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <BD4366C7.6F6B%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <BD43699F.6F6D%moe2@shaw.ca>


since i did not get a reply regarding a request
for script to check/uncheck a cascade menu
and menu that follows a cascading menu
from anyone ... including the RR people

is it true that no one can do this and that there is a bug in RR?


> i would sure appreciate someone writing out the script that would
> correctly check and uncheck all seven menu items as illustrated
> in the Documentation
> 
> i found a cascade menu in the Search Documentation by typing in
>         "menus and the menu bar"
> selecting topic   "About menus and the menu bar"
> and in the sixth line of the text, clicking the hotText "submenus"
> 
> these are the four menuItems of ONE menu that are displayed,
> and Alignment has 3 cascading menuItems: left, center, right
> 
>   Format
>   Alignment
>   Size
>   Style
> 
> the documentation script to check and uncheck the Size and Style menu
> items does not (those menuItems after a cascading menuItem)
> 
> 
> here are all of the methods from the documentation:
> 
> on menuPick theItem
> put the menuHistory of me into myItemNumber
> if char 1 to 2 of line myItemNumber of me is "!c"
> then delete char 1 to 2 of line myItemNumber of me
> else put "!c" before line myItemNumber of me
> 
> repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in me
>   if char 1 to 2 of line x of me is "!c"
>   then delete char 1 to 2 of line x of me
> end repeat
> put "!c" before line myItemNumber of me
> 
> put the currentCheckedLine of me into oldLine
> delete char 1 to 2 of line oldLine of me
> put "!c" before line myItemNumber of me
> set the currentCheckedLine of me to myItemNumber
> end menuPick
> 
> your help is appreciated
> 
> moe
> 







From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 14 10:22:10 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:22:10 -0400
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 62
In-Reply-To: <81B594CF-EDFB-11D8-BFA0-000A959B61BE@cox.net>
References: <81B594CF-EDFB-11D8-BFA0-000A959B61BE@cox.net>
Message-ID: <5442F5E6-EDFD-11D8-A1B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

I agree.  I have always contended that adventure games are more than 
toys, for they teach the scientific method:  try something, if it 
doesn't work, modify a variable and try again.  Yet, from the student's 
perspective it feels like play.  Isn't that what learning SHOULD be: 
FUN?


On Aug 14, 2004, at 10:09 AM, Mark Greenberg wrote:

> For about 7 years my students have been using computers to learn 
> through games that I have designed, and they have made presentations 
> that include variable dependent animation.


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug 14 11:20:54 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 11:20:54 -0400
Subject: Open GL tools
In-Reply-To: <BD432866.1293B%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BD432866.1293B%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <89042CC4-EE05-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 14, 2004, at 5:24 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:
> Since I haven't seen any responses to this yet, I thought I'd chime in 
> on
> behalf of the iGame3D folks.  They have had a very cool and complex 
> external
> (Windows/Mac) in the works for some time now (see the list archives).  
> They
> are primarily interested in creating a game development environment, 
> but
> have already tapped into much of what openGL offers.

This must be what I was referring to when I said -

>> Somebody was doing some work on it, but apparently gave up. Kevin 
>> Miller was trying to get it back on track, but it didn't sound very 
>> positive to me. Who knows?

Apparently, Scott knows something more. ;-)

However, the last messages which were posted to this list from the 
iGames folks were extremely negative in tone, and indicated that they 
were pretty luke-warm on completing it. It would be good to hear that 
they were actually going to finish it.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug 14 11:34:06 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 11:34:06 -0400
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <BD43699F.6F6D%moe2@shaw.ca>
References: <BD43699F.6F6D%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <60B007E6-EE07-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 14, 2004, at 10:02 AM, moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:

> since i did not get a reply regarding a request
> for script to check/uncheck a cascade menu
> and menu that follows a cascading menu
> from anyone ... including the RR people
>
> is it true that no one can do this and that there is a bug in RR?

Possibly. It is also possible that no one quite fully understands what 
you are wanting to do.

"script to check/uncheck a cascade menu and menu that follows a 
cascading menu"

You pull down a menu. You cursor down and hilite the topmost layer in a 
cascading menu, so that its child menus become available. Now, you want 
to release the mouse button when exactly? While over that topmost 
layer? And from that you are expecting to place checkmarks on the 
topmost layer, as well as all of its child items?
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Sat Aug 14 12:01:01 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 18:01:01 +0200
Subject: Open GL tools
References: <BD432866.1293B%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<89042CC4-EE05-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411E373C.CD6A8057@Club-Internet.fr>

Hi guys,

>
> >> Somebody was doing some work on it, but apparently gave up. Kevin
> >> Miller was trying to get it back on track, but it didn't sound very
> >> positive to me. Who knows?
>
> Apparently, Scott knows something more. ;-)
>
> However, the last messages which were posted to this list from the
> iGames folks were extremely negative in tone, and indicated that they
> were pretty luke-warm on completing it. It would be good to hear that
> they were actually going to finish it.
> --

on the subject of Rev & openGL, here are my 2 cents :

about 1.5 year ago I spent some time on the project of interfacing Rev
with openGL, and I can say that displaying (in Rev) images built in
realtime with openGL is very easy (I have code for an external for
Mac & Windows).
HOWEVER, sending requests to the openGL engine via a Rev script
seems as easy at first, but pretty soon brings lots of headaches,
especially
if you want to keep the benefit of realtime interaction.
IOW I came to the conclusion that expecting full control of openGL from
Rev via an external will take us to a dead end.

For the moment, I can see 2 options only :

1- for each project you'll have to code a specific external in C that does
all the job,
while Rev is only used for mouse / kbd events, and 3D ouput images display
(which is what I've done so far for a couple of personal projects including

realtime 3D : it works ok, but 95% of the job is straight C programing)

2- adding a large set of commands and properties in Transcript (for the
equivalents
in openGL). As of yet, this can be done only by RunRev development crew,
and I'm not sure where it stands on their list of priorities (needless to
say it's a
huge task).
As mentioned in a recent thread, giving the possibility to users to extend
the
language would be a HUGE improvement for Rev : such development projects
could be undertaken by several of us (in a similar way as open source
coding).
Think about it : several high end functions could be added to Rev brick by
brick
(realtime 3D and scriptable realtime antialiased 2D vector graphics - both
thru openGL),
scriptable realtime sound processing and MIDI, etc etc.

I'm not a specialist, but I have the feeling that the possibility to extend
the language
would boost the product way beyond it's present status of slightly improved
Xplatform
HyperCard...

JB


From toncardona at mac.com  Sat Aug 14 12:11:37 2004
From: toncardona at mac.com (Ton Cardona)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 18:11:37 +0200
Subject: How to detect which files need an update
Message-ID: <9E8FEE18-EE0C-11D8-8245-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>

One program of mine is based on compressed files which the user 
downloads from an FTP to his hard disk. Those files are frequently 
updated (legal stuff).

Although it is easy to detect the date of files in the FTP, I am unable 
to detect whether the files in the hard disk do need an update by 
comparing their dates to the dates of those in the FTP.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Ton Cardona


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug 14 12:21:57 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:21:57 -0400
Subject: How to detect which files need an update
In-Reply-To: <9E8FEE18-EE0C-11D8-8245-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
References: <9E8FEE18-EE0C-11D8-8245-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0FEFB430-EE0E-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 14, 2004, at 12:11 PM, Ton Cardona wrote:

> Although it is easy to detect the date of files in the FTP, I am 
> unable to detect whether the files in the hard disk do need an update 
> by comparing their dates to the dates of those in the FTP.

Maybe on each connection to the FTP you could create a local catalogue 
which maintains a list of the current state of the remote folder, and 
retain it in your program. The next time you connect, you compare them, 
and download anything which has been modified, and then update your 
local catalogue.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Aug 14 12:39:10 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:39:10 -0600
Subject: How to detect which files need an update
In-Reply-To: <9E8FEE18-EE0C-11D8-8245-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
References: <9E8FEE18-EE0C-11D8-8245-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <77D3BFBA-EE10-11D8-BE8D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 14, 2004, at 10:11 AM, Ton Cardona wrote:

> One program of mine is based on compressed files which the user 
> downloads from an FTP to his hard disk. Those files are frequently 
> updated (legal stuff).
>
> Although it is easy to detect the date of files in the FTP, I am 
> unable to detect whether the files in the hard disk do need an update 
> by comparing their dates to the dates of those in the FTP.

Are you using modification date from the files() function?  If not, 
look at that.  It would not match the FTP date, I assume, but if it is 
older than the ftp date, you need to update.  You might want to update 
if it is near the ftp date, just to be safe.

If you are already using it, what is wrong?

Dar

****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Aug 14 12:40:55 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:40:55 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEKNGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEKNGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <361894984.20040814094055@ahsoftware.net>

MisterX-

Saturday, August 14, 2004, 12:47:09 AM, you wrote:

M> I tried prograph but it got quite confusing and tedious to dig through
M> a hierachy of objects to click. Soon enough you had 20 million windows
M> opened! But the concept is superb. Too bad it didn't work so well after all.

I keep going back and looking at the Prograph model and wishing it
would work better. I think they had an excellent idea. I can't quite
bring myself to throw out the old CDs or either that or VIP-C. My main
problem with VIP-C was that it was buggy - like you I would end up
doing the initial design work in VIP-C, then throwing it over to
CodeWarrior for the heavy lifting.

M> your code too which was clickeable to jump to the code. I think it still
M> runs and sells and could be used to create xcmds for macs. You could use

Well, that's *technically* true... VIP-C v2.5 was the last version
that shipped. And while it's still listed as available in the "legacy"
section of their website, the note says "Updated for System 8".

http://www.mstay.com//legacy.html

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Sat Aug 14 12:41:22 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:41:22 -0400
Subject: Make tables more spread-sheet-like
In-Reply-To: <BD437E6C.25FE%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD437E6C.25FE%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <C6A6E154-EE10-11D8-B9C7-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Personally, I'd like to see the ability to use varied column widths: 
right now, all columns are the same width.

On Aug 14, 2004, at 8:31, Bill wrote:

> Come on only 62 votes for this so far! If we vote enough maybe we will 
> see
> this feature for the next release! At least the weird tabbing bugs 
> will be
> removed. I'd like to see the tables behave like a mini-spreadsheet (of
> course without the math). A very similar thing was available in Reports
> Nine-To-Five and very useful. It would also be very useful for making
> reports for printing. This way you can make a view of organized data 
> that is
> editable (either gathered from cards or from your database) and 
> re-size-able
> by the user.



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug 14 12:49:49 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:49:49 -0400
Subject: Make tables more spread-sheet-like
In-Reply-To: <C6A6E154-EE10-11D8-B9C7-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
References: <BD437E6C.25FE%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
	<C6A6E154-EE10-11D8-B9C7-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <F4F8C96D-EE11-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 14, 2004, at 12:41 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:

> Personally, I'd like to see the ability to use varied column widths: 
> right now, all columns are the same width.

Well, that part isn't exactly correct. Column width is currently based 
on placement of tab stops. However, the current implementation will 
extend the final tab stop almost infinitely, and those columns will be 
the same size as the last one which was set.

As Chipp mentioned, many of these issues can (more or less) be resolved 
programatically. Several of them cant. Bug #670 is a feature request 
aimed at getting "actual" data grids implemented as a new kind of 
control, which would inherently behave the way a data grid should, 
without a whole bunch of workarounds through custom code.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Aug 14 13:30:23 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:30:23 -0500
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
	<CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411E4C2F.2090001@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/14/04 1:25 AM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> 
> On Aug 14, 2004, at 2:14 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

>> OR create your own table group consisting of separate fields next to  
>> each other.
> 
> 
> ;-) Yeah, was considering that too.

I built one of these some years ago:

<http://www.hyperactivesw.com/downloads/pseudtbl.mc.hqx>

You'll probably want to adjust the behavior, but it might get you 
started. The method has some limitations but can work in the right 
circumstances.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Aug 14 13:31:03 2004
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 18:31:03 +0100
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
Message-ID: <p05100300bd43fbab6317@[82.35.49.167]>

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 02:25:58 -0400, Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

>[...]



>  but I encourage folks to jump on Bugzilla
>and add your voice to this important feature request...
>
><http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?
>id=670>
>
>57 votes so far!

OK, I added my 5, but I couldn't remember to add an additional 
comment to Bguzilla (it only seems possible to add an attachment like 
a patch?!). I note tho that the comments which are there are fairly 
'advanced'. What about much more basic functionality like a message 
being sent every time the user changes the contents of a cell or 
every time the user tabs from one cell to another: similarly, how is 
the script supposed to detect that a set of cells has been selected 
and whether it's contiguous or not? You can see that my mind is 
running along spreadsheet lines... maybe all this has been thought of 
and I've missed it (it is hard for me to keep up with digests just at 
present), but I don't want the simple stuff to be neglected.

Graham
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
          Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France

From soapdog at mac.com  Sat Aug 14 13:32:53 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 14:32:53 -0300
Subject: How to detect which files need an update
In-Reply-To: <9E8FEE18-EE0C-11D8-8245-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
References: <9E8FEE18-EE0C-11D8-8245-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <F8CDCDDB-EE17-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 14, 2004, at 1:11 PM, Ton Cardona wrote:

> Although it is easy to detect the date of files in the FTP, I am 
> unable to detect whether the files in the hard disk do need an update 
> by comparing their dates to the dates of those in the FTP.

You can parse the detailed files function for the modification date. 
Also, some FTP servers support MDTM command which gives you the last 
modification date for a given file. You can call it with 
libURLFtpCommand  function. If your server support it, then you can use 
the dateItem stuff in in Rev to make your detection routine, it should 
take you less than ten lines. If your server does not support MDTM 
command, then use a LS command and parse the result for dates, you can 
use MatchText and look for date-like struct or use common chunk 
routines and try to find the date by matching items. This should 
ammount to very little coding too.

If you need further assistance, just ask.

Andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Aug 14 14:40:20 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:40:20 -0800
Subject: Open GL tools
In-Reply-To: <20040814160019.BE0D79300EE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD439C91.74AE%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi JB,

> Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 18:01:01 +0200
> From: jbv <jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr>
> Subject: Re: Open GL tools

> on the subject of Rev & openGL, here are my 2 cents :

Thanks, your Re adds to the picture (pun intended) ;-) I am hoping there are
ways to work OpenGL into it, though.

snip
 
> I'm not a specialist, but I have the feeling that the possibility to extend
> the language
> would boost the product way beyond it's present status of slightly improved
> Xplatform
> HyperCard...

Well, as it happens, I'd have to agree with the language-extension thing.
Providing toolboxes for the major platforms to do that might be daunting,
though. I see the reasoning behind your anaysis of the one-off OpenGL
interfaces, but the very thing you did looks like it could provide a model
for more generic approaches, yes?

Then 'brick' it together at some point.
 
But for the last part: For one obvious thing, it has 5x the keywords
available in the last version of HC. So, I'd have to say it's slightly more
than slightly more, eh?

All the best,
Ken N.


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Sat Aug 14 14:05:24 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 14:05:24 EDT
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
Message-ID: <1dd.28e3f7cb.2e4fae64@aol.com>

>> is it true that no one can do this and  that there is a bug in RR?

>Possibly. It is also possible that no one  quite fully understands what 
>you are wanting to  do.
>
>"script to check/uncheck a cascade menu and menu that follows  a 
>cascading menu"


I think the request is not only a child  sub-menu checked but also the 
parent. If this is the case, the answer seems to  be no you cannot. Which I agree is 
a bit odd as it would certainly help to track  down checked sub-menus when 
you cannot see them, but then Apple is trying to  abolish hierarchical menus 
anyway.

/H

Hugh Senior
The Flexible  Learning Company
Web: www.FlexibleLearning.com
E:  h at flexiblelearning.com
T/F: +44(0)1483.27 87 27  


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sat Aug 14 15:18:49 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:18:49 +0200
Subject: visual programming tools was ( Re: Educational uses for Rev)
In-Reply-To: <411DB8B9.30903@fourthworld.com>
References: <20040813173616.17235.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
	<8420377511.20040813142903@ahsoftware.net>
	<2D60E60A-ED96-11D8-A1B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<411DB8B9.30903@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C587130D-EE26-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 14.08.2004, at 09:01, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> sim-building tool which later became
> KidSim), Prograph, Icon Author, and Authorware are either dead or 
> dying.
>
> So is it the case that all of the truly visual programming languages 
> are
> gone?  Or have I just missed some really cool work going on out there?

You have missed them, Richard!
let me give you a small list
ezedia QT - QT-Tool mov very easy
eZedia MX - QT-Tool player very easy
Qarbon great succes with Flash format (unfortunaltly now WIN only)
MistralMove (the smaller brothers of QuickMedia) - the mTropolis idea, 
Mac only
QuickMedia Mac and Win MistralMove with scripting
X-Builder Mac only - a lot for 20 Bucks!
AgentSheets a simulation idea - intersting!
- -
Hyperstudio as we know it

more powerfull ones:
Norpath Elements Studio - The Authorware-idea with SQL connection, 
deploy for OSX, Win, Linux and Solaris
iShell (you know) QT at steroids a bit slow - the Outliner GUI!
Magik its called now(?): Java Studio Creator (bought from Sun)
visviva - some like that Win-thing
Anark - impressiv and easy 3D
labview - for laboratories I cant say

and I m sure, there are a lot more in the net.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speelearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sat Aug 14 15:22:13 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:22:13 +0200
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <2FC2A0C4-ED32-11D8-92A3-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <2FC2A0C4-ED32-11D8-92A3-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F24134C-EE27-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 13.08.2004, at 16:08, Mark Brownell wrote:

> \This is a perfect example of the need for a joke handler.
be carefully with joke handlers, thats a list for serious programming;))

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speelearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sat Aug 14 15:25:38 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:25:38 +0200
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <CEDAE744-ED6B-11D8-BC70-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<CEDAE744-ED6B-11D8-BC70-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <B96BFEDC-EE27-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 13.08.2004, at 23:00, Mark Talluto wrote:

> Just for fun I shall mention that my apps are in about 2000 stores 
> across the U.S.  ;)

because you are called canela?;)

No serious, which app is that?

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speelearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sat Aug 14 16:29:36 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:29:36 +0200
Subject: Versions of RR+ whats about?!
In-Reply-To: <411D06BE.7000703@fourthworld.com>
References: <BD428067.2BEA%kevin@runrev.com>
	<C0CB950D-ED38-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411D06BE.7000703@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <A88CFBFA-EE30-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 13.08.2004, at 20:21, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> If I had nothing but time on my hands I've been itching to make an 
> iShell-like IDE just to show off the engine's versatility.  But with 
> so many folks already enjoying Rev, even if I somehow got the time I'd 
> probably implement it as a plugin so folks could use it easily within 
> their favorite IDE.

Richard,
you are in the third year promising that;))

Sometimes in life everybody could/has/should think not only in time and 
money. I know thats very hard to understand for you americans, but 
there is a bit more in life than time and money...

I know you are one of the best scripter here and you did a great tool 
with MC, what needs much more than scripting...

Whats abgout finding 15 minutes a day and wasting them to show us (me 
Dummy) how that unfulfilled promise can be realized anytime. If it 
takes monthes half a year or more... it doesnt matter. Better we have 
it in a year then never. I would like to participate with at least 15 
minutes (not scripting of course;)), and I m sure here are more nice 
guys and gals, which are also ready to waste that 15 minutes.

One more thought: Think not only iShell. Think about the other great 
GUI idea too: the mTropolis or Apple?s new Motion. Ist the same thing: 
drag prescripted icons to the controls and give them life. Let them do 
whats written inside the icaons in transcript. (they should be 
doubleclickable to open the editor to adapt them for the more advanced 
Users). Any control could be dragged like that. Check MistralMovie 
http://www.omegaconcept.fr/index.php?oc=54 for minutes and you will 
know what I mean. It lacks the possiblitiy of scripting, what its 
bigger brother Qucikmedia has, but has a more modern GUI, hence it 
gives a good impression how that mTropolis GUI could look today.

We could  abuse the rev dox list and form a small group, and make a 
list how this can be realized and everybody selects a different job. 
Maybe we can anytime get a small fee for that. But we can surely do a 
lot for the educational/newbie market.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speelearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sat Aug 14 16:33:43 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:33:43 +0200
Subject: QT in rev slower: Was Re: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs.
	other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <7624EEC8-ED3C-11D8-B538-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<964DB1A2-ED1B-11D8-9072-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
	<7624EEC8-ED3C-11D8-B538-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <3C3C6EF7-EE31-11D8-915F-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 13.08.2004, at 17:21, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> I imagine your interactive movie was using wired sprites.

I did not. But maybe the tool, with which I did it, uses sprites in the 
executable QT code, because it has this feature. CAnt say that, because 
I dont not understand it.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speelearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug 14 16:37:41 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:37:41 -0400
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <1dd.28e3f7cb.2e4fae64@aol.com>
References: <1dd.28e3f7cb.2e4fae64@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C99D8BC5-EE31-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 14, 2004, at 2:05 PM, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:

> I think the request is not only a child  sub-menu checked but also the
> parent. If this is the case, the answer seems to  be no you cannot. 
> Which I agree is
> a bit odd as it would certainly help to track  down checked sub-menus 
> when
> you cannot see them, but then Apple is trying to  abolish hierarchical 
> menus
> anyway.

I believe the reason you can't is that no event gets fired by releasing 
on the parent, isn't that correct?

If so, I don't think it would qualify as a "bug" since AFAIK, menus 
aren't *supposed* to work that way.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Sat Aug 14 17:19:16 2004
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:19:16 -0400
Subject: Educational uses for Rev -- profs talk to gamers?
In-Reply-To: <20040814062325.A5177930120@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040814062325.A5177930120@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <98F625D8-EE37-11D8-87EE-000D9350C9C2@videotron.ca>

Actually, Erik, on the face of it I would have to side with the 
biologist; although, as I wrote previously, my question would have 
been, why a web site?

Animations do have educational value, some more than others, but 
generally marginal.  There isn't enough bang for the buck unless a lot 
more is done to entice students to explore.  Students will appreciate a 
sine function much more by tabulating its values, writing those on a 
piece of paper, and then graphing them on a piece of paper.  They are 
actively engaged, with knowledge running up the pencil, through the 
arm, up into the brain, and then hopefully back down again to the 
pencil.  A spreadsheet is a good second-best.  Animations, on the other 
hand, can be viewed passively, like television.

	Gregory


On Aug 14, 2004, at 2:23 AM, Erik Hansen wrote:
>
> perhaps because they don't see computers as
> more than a gimmicky folder file?
>
> when i suggested to a biologist that her plant
> growth
> website could do even more with animation
> showing incremental progress, the reaction was
> a defensive "oh yes, and i could add some waving
> arms!" no, she was not a programmer.
>
> a math prof felt that animating the progress of
> a mathematical function was a cop-out, not real
> thought.
>
> a class in neural networking i once took
> had  step-wise representation of a function's
> progress in a Variable Watcher and in a graph.
> i never would have gotten the idea from the
> prose.
>
> many "get" the concept of a sine wave only
> after seeing a visual representation.
>
> maybe the profs should talk to the game writers?
>
> Erik Hansen


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Sat Aug 14 17:28:59 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 23:28:59 +0200
Subject: Open GL tools
References: <BD439C91.74AE%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <411E841B.678416B9@Club-Internet.fr>



Ken,

>
> > I'm not a specialist, but I have the feeling that the possibility to extend
> > the language
> > would boost the product way beyond it's present status of slightly improved
> > Xplatform
> > HyperCard...
>
> Well, as it happens, I'd have to agree with the language-extension thing.
> Providing toolboxes for the major platforms to do that might be daunting,
> though. I see the reasoning behind your anaysis of the one-off OpenGL
> interfaces, but the very thing you did looks like it could provide a model
> for more generic approaches, yes?
>
> Then 'brick' it together at some point.

Mmmh... I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean...
what I did was actually straight C coding and believe, I would have been
more than happy to be able to avoid it and code the whole thing in
Transcript (and avoid the compilation hassle, the Xplat compatibility
problems, the use of 2 different languages simultaneously, etc etc)...

>
>
> But for the last part: For one obvious thing, it has 5x the keywords
> available in the last version of HC. So, I'd have to say it's slightly more
> than slightly more, eh?
>

he he... agreed...
nevertheless, the possibility for users to extend the language would be
(IMHO) a giant leap, coz simply adding keywords extends the number
of avialble functions, but doesn't imply improvement of the paradigm
of the product...
Last but not least, with such a feature, I guess we would be only 1 small
step away from the approach of Rev not as a single engine / black box, but
as a collection of librairies that could be selected at will when building a
standalone...
The discussion already occured on this list : some ppl said that adding 1.5 Mb
of code when building a standalone is no big deal... in many cases it might be
so, but 2 years ago I did a small app for a client who was in the middle of the
desert (don't ask me why) and had only a satellite phone with narrow bwdth
to download it to his laptop... those 1.5 Mb looked huge (especially because
the "really useful" code was less than 1 Kb).
Also when using Rev (actually MC 2.4.3) for a simple screensaver (to be
downloaded by ppl with 56 Kb connections) that made heavy use of
openGL and in which very few Transcript functions were used (namely
mousup, mousedown, get URL and images display)... 1.5 Mb looked huge
when compared to the same app in C...

Best,
JB


From howard.bornstein at gmail.com  Sat Aug 14 17:33:29 2004
From: howard.bornstein at gmail.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:33:29 -0400
Subject: [ANN]ChatRev 1.0
In-Reply-To: <062489FC-ED69-11D8-8D35-000A95909E26@mac.com>
References: <062489FC-ED69-11D8-8D35-000A95909E26@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3f07cc26040814143358a9cf73@mail.gmail.com>

Way cool. Very fun chatting with you!
-- 

Regards,

Howard Bornstein (whiplash)
-----------------------
www.designeq.com

From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 14 18:45:25 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 15:45:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040814160020.265E89300E7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040814224525.47470.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com>

on Sat, 14 Aug 2004
Mark Greenberg wrote:

> I usually don't pipe up in this list, feeling
> somewhat like a meerkat 
> among lions and elephants, but now we're talking
> about my field.

Marc, Did you ever receive any mails from Rev
education mail list? I bet that you will feel
at home in that list.

> For about 7 years my students have been using
> computers to learn 
> through games that I have designed, and they have
> made presentations 
> that include variable dependent animation.  For
> instance, one student 
> made a stack that painted a picture randomly in one
> of a dozen color 
> schemes and the player had to click on the type of
> color scheme.  
> Another made a graph under the normal curve (for
> Stat class) that 
> animated according to three different variables, all
> entered by the 
> user.  There are scores more.

Did you have a link to see these projects? :-)

> One interesting site that advances the view of using
> video-game 
> metaphor as an educational design for programming is
> 
> http://www.marcprensky.com/.

This is the second time that Marc Prensky in
mentioned in this thread. ;-)

on Sat, 14 Aug 2004 
Marian Petrides wrote:

> I agree.  I have always contended that adventure
> games are more than 
> toys, for they teach the scientific method:  try
> something, if it 
> doesn't work, modify a variable and try again.  Yet,
> from the student's 
> perspective it feels like play.  Isn't that what
> learning SHOULD be: 
> FUN?

Interesting enough, the creators of Hot Potatoes,are
promoting a new interactive learning tool: Quandary 

<http://www.halfbakedsoftware.com/quandary.php>
_http://www.halfbakedsoftware.com/quandary.php_

Quandary is an application for creating Web-based 
Action Mazes. An Action Maze is a kind of interactive 
case-study; the user is presented with a situation, 
and a number of choices as to a course of action to 
deal with it. On choosing one of the options, the 
resulting situation is then presented, again with a 
set of options. Working through this branching tree is

like negotiating a maze, hence the name "Action Maze".

Action mazes can be used for many purposes, including 
problem-solving, diagnosis, procedural training, and 
surveys/questionnaires. All of these types of use are 
easier to understand by example than they are to 
explain, so here are some example exercises.

Tell me if i'm wrong, but how different is this from
a very simple text Role game playing:

<http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Games/Text_Role_Playing_Games/index.html>
_http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Games/Text_Role_Playing_Games/index.html_

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 14 19:34:37 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:34:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <1a6.263ce5ff.2e29572f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040814233437.86204.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>


--- FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:
http://flexiblelearning.com/xtalk.htm
mci & mciSendString()
mci MIDI in 3 steps 

these use MIDI files. is there a Windows way
to convert xTalk commands like
play "60q 62e 64e" -- to MIDI files?

for mac:
http://www.hyperactivesw.com/shakobox.html
http://homepage.mac.com/udi/
Kurt Kaufman: a SMF stack bundled with RR

but Windows remains mute.
 




=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


	
		
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 14 19:55:43 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Monterey video
In-Reply-To: <C2CBB425-E9CC-11D8-B7D2-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20040814235543.28677.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>

hi Dan,

do you want to communicate with the 
Monterey station about my dance videos,
or should i contact them directly?

either way is fine,

see you soon,

Erik Hansen

p.s.
thanks again for the sharks!



=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
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Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. 
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 14 19:57:53 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:57:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: woops
In-Reply-To: <20040814235543.28677.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040814235754.25462.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>


disculpas, i got the address wrong.


=====
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From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug 14 21:07:08 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 18:07:08 -0700
Subject: Monterey video
In-Reply-To: <20040814235543.28677.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040814235543.28677.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6DEFA6B9-EE57-11D8-8BA1-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

I'll do it. This week is bad; my eye surgery is on Wednesday and one of 
the key guys at AMP is on vacation. I'll try to get to it the following 
week, but bugging me next Tuesday (8/24) is probably not a bad idea.

Dan

On Aug 14, 2004, at 4:55 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:

> hi Dan,
>
> do you want to communicate with the
> Monterey station about my dance videos,
> or should i contact them directly?
>
> either way is fine,
>
> see you soon,
>
> Erik Hansen
>
> p.s.
> thanks again for the sharks!
>
>
>
> =====
> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org
>
>
> 		
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
> http://messenger.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Aug 14 22:19:07 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 19:19:07 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408122045590.20154-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408122045590.20154-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <411EC81B.2050105@fourthworld.com>

Judy Perry wrote:
>
>> One sadly pervasive problem is that too many self-described
>> "authorities" on e-learning mistake the Internet for the Web.
>>
>> I can understand why they didn't stumble across my "Beyond the
>> Browser" article:
>><http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html>
>
>> I'd like to think any "authority" would be able to connect the
>> dots here. :)
>
> Actually, Richard, they would have had to have worked hard NOT
> to have stumbled across it, as I posted it as ammo in one or
> more class discussion threads ;-)

Thanks for the link.

After my SETI joke page that article is the post popular page at my
site.  At least someone's reading it, whether or not they take it to heart.

> As for some of them being 'authorities', well, remember that
> two of them claimed that Hypercard was 'a cheap rip-off' or
> 'knock-off' of Visual Basic...

If you need to embarass 'em you can wait till they say that at a meeting
and point out that Visual Basic was prototyped on a Mac using SuperCard
(heard it from a Microsoft employee).

> and that VBA = Visual Basic Analogue...

Frightening.  And sad, considering how many knowledgeable and talented
people have trouble finding work in these tough times, while people like
that have "anti-jobs" (in which they get paid to provide the opposite of
useful goods and services <g>).

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev




From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 15 00:12:27 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 00:12:27 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <411E4C2F.2090001@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
	<CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411E4C2F.2090001@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <518DE46E-EE71-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 14, 2004, at 1:30 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I built one of these some years ago:
>
> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/downloads/pseudtbl.mc.hqx>
>
> You'll probably want to adjust the behavior, but it might get you 
> started. The method has some limitations but can work in the right 
> circumstances.

I grabbed that demo, and I must say, it is really nice, and very 
impressive. That said, with no intent to snub the obvious expertise, it 
is hundreds of lines of custom code, which delivers a one-off solution, 
which still does not really behave like a "standard" data grid. This 
leads me only to believe that without a built-in solution, a 
generically useful and practical data grid is simply beyond our current 
capabilities.

To me, data grids are a pretty critical functionality, and one of the 
reasons I left Director behind for my "application" development. 
Director has a well-known xtra called "OSControl xtra" which provides 
cross-platform native controls - but a multi-column data grid is beyond 
its capability - even at a base, text-only, level. And, text should not 
be the extent of a data grid.

While other deficiencies I've mentioned (imaging, openGL, etc.) are 
features that would be nice to see in Rev, and I can live without or 
find suitable workarounds for until we see support for them, data 
display is not so easily remedied. It creates interface bottlenecks 
where entire multi-field cards are used instead of a single 
multi-column line in a grid. This is not a workable solution in many 
cases, since it doesn't support relational sorting, etc.

The application browser is perhaps the closest thing I have seen in 
Revolution to a working data grid. It isn't an actual OS native grid, 
but it comes pretty close - of course, it doesn't support cell editing 
but otherwise has many of the features needed, including hierarchy 
support. If the grid which is used in it were made into something that 
we as users could get under our control, with a reasonable API, it 
might suffice for the interim, but only for some projects.

In the meantime, I have an upcoming project which *requires* a fast, 
sophisticated grid (ala iTunes.) I currently don't see how Revolution 
is going to support it, and therefore I will have to resort to using 
something else - all too frequent a situation with "high level 
language" tools it seems. Development speed and no airbags for when the 
brick walls crop up. I had thought that maybe between Director and 
Revolution, I'd pretty much have all the bases covered, but this is one 
where neither Director or Revolution is the right tool. The search 
continues. <sigh>
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Sun Aug 15 01:55:15 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 01:55:15 EDT
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading Menus
Message-ID: <24.5dc1aa72.2e5054c3@aol.com>

When a child or grandchild menuitem is selected, each of the higher level  
parent menuitems could indicate that one (or more) of their offspring is active  
with a dedicated symbol mark.

As for event firing, you are correct of course for Rev. Some programs,  
however, do allow parent menuitems to accept events.
/H


> I  believe the reason you can't is that no event gets fired by releasing 
>  on the parent, isn't that correct?
> 
> If so, I don't think it  would qualify as a "bug" since AFAIK, menus 
> aren't *supposed* to work  that way.
> --
> Troy


> I think the request is not  only a child  sub-menu checked but also the
> parent. If this is the  case, the answer seems to  be no you cannot. 
> Which I agree  is
> a bit odd as it would certainly help to track  down checked  sub-menus 
> when
> you cannot see them, but then Apple is trying  to  abolish hierarchical 
> menus anyway.
> /H

From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sun Aug 15 01:59:34 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:59:34 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <60B007E6-EE07-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD4449D6.6FA1%moe2@shaw.ca>

on 2004/08/14 8:34 AM, Troy Rollins at troy at rpsystems.net wrote:

thanks for your reply Troy ... note the word "script" in my question

which means i am looking for THE SCRIPT to check and uncheck menus

> 
> On Aug 14, 2004, at 10:02 AM, moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:
> 
>> since i did not get a reply regarding a request
>> for script to check/uncheck a cascade menu
>> and menu that follows a cascading menu
>> from anyone ... including the RR people
>> 
>> is it true that no one can do this and that there is a bug in RR?
> 
> Possibly. It is also possible that no one quite fully understands what
> you are wanting to do.
> 
> "script to check/uncheck a cascade menu and menu that follows a
> cascading menu"
> 
> You pull down a menu. You cursor down and hilite the topmost layer in a
> cascading menu, so that its child menus become available. Now, you want
> to release the mouse button when exactly? While over that topmost
> layer? And from that you are expecting to place checkmarks on the
> topmost layer, as well as all of its child items?
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sun Aug 15 02:05:59 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 23:05:59 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <1dd.28e3f7cb.2e4fae64@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD444B57.6FA2%moe2@shaw.ca>

on 2004/08/14 11:05 AM, FlexibleLearning at aol.com at FlexibleLearning at aol.com
wrote:

we are not on the same page. i created my own menus in a stack and now i
want to check and uncheck them. i can do this but not when there is a
cascade menu in the middle of the dropdown menus

i can see the menus, i just can not get a checkmark to appear before the
proper menu when there is a cascade menu in the middle of the menus. the
cascade menu is ok if it is the first one but not if it resides with the
second of three menus

what does "child sub-menu checked" mean?

>>> is it true that no one can do this and  that there is a bug in RR?
> 
>> 
>> "script to check/uncheck a cascade menu and menu that follows  a
>> cascading menu"
> 
> 
> I think the request is not only a child  sub-menu checked but also the
> parent. If this is the case, the answer seems to  be no you cannot. Which I
> agree is 
> a bit odd as it would certainly help to track  down checked sub-menus when
> you cannot see them, but then Apple is trying to  abolish hierarchical menus
> anyway.
> 
> /H
> 
> Hugh Senior
> The Flexible  Learning Company
> Web: www.FlexibleLearning.com
> E:  h at flexiblelearning.com
> T/F: +44(0)1483.27 87 27
> 


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug 15 02:17:18 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 23:17:18 -0700
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <518DE46E-EE71-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
	<CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411E4C2F.2090001@hyperactivesw.com>
	<518DE46E-EE71-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411EFFEE.3070104@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:
...
> To me, data grids are a pretty critical functionality....

For me too, but I think you're talking about a very specific 
implementation of a data grid, perhaps the type one sees in spreadsheets 
or the type supported by HTML.

The built-in multi-column field has been doing me just fine for years. 
You can put up to 4GB of tab-delimited data into it and get instant 
results by setting the tabStops property. It supports most of the 
behaviors commonly associated with database display, including 
properties for selecting either single or multiple lines, and even 
discontiguous selection.

...
 > It creates interface bottlenecks
> where entire multi-field cards are used instead of a single multi-column 
> line in a grid. This is not a workable solution in many cases, since it 
> doesn't support relational sorting, etc.

What is "relational sorting"?

The built-in sort command will do well with the built-in multi-column 
list object, with the only caeat being that no single line of text can 
be longer than 64k (which is probably wider than would be practical for 
most common uses anyway).

> It isn't an actual OS native grid

Where did you get the impression any OS provides a data grid control?

If there's a native data grid control in OS X or XP it's very new; for 
the previous 20 years everyone rolled their own.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sun Aug 15 02:17:33 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 23:17:33 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <C99D8BC5-EE31-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD444E0D.6FA3%moe2@shaw.ca>

of course one should be able script menus with cascading menus ... and the
scripter should be able to allow the user to place a checkmark before menu
items and before the cascade menus also

where in the RR documentation is there a reference to "parent" ?

by fired, if you mean is a message created when a menu is selected, yes. and
with this message one can decide to check and uncheck the menu in the button
that created the messgae ... or at least the documentation says one should
be able to. i can do this for menus but not for cascaded menus between other
menus

for example "Toolbars" is a menu that is checked and unchecked ... i want to
be able to do that with script in my stacks and with cascade menus

> 
> On Aug 14, 2004, at 2:05 PM, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:
> 
>> I think the request is not only a child  sub-menu checked but also the
>> parent. If this is the case, the answer seems to  be no you cannot.
>> Which I agree is
>> a bit odd as it would certainly help to track  down checked sub-menus
>> when
>> you cannot see them, but then Apple is trying to  abolish hierarchical
>> menus
>> anyway.
> 
> I believe the reason you can't is that no event gets fired by releasing
> on the parent, isn't that correct?
> 
> If so, I don't think it would qualify as a "bug" since AFAIK, menus
> aren't *supposed* to work that way.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Sun Aug 15 02:25:07 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 23:25:07 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <B96BFEDC-EE27-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<CEDAE744-ED6B-11D8-BC70-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
	<B96BFEDC-EE27-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <DA21ABC8-EE83-11D8-95D6-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 14, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:

>
> On 13.08.2004, at 23:00, Mark Talluto wrote:
>
>> Just for fun I shall mention that my apps are in about 2000 stores 
>> across the U.S.  ;)
>
> because you are called canela?;)
>
> No serious, which app is that?
>

Canela means cinnamon in Spanish.  I don't think it has improved my 
sales much with the Spanish speaking countries.  Oh well...
Math Generator, Lesson Plan Generator, Primary Generator, and my 
Classroom Fonts collection are in most teacher stores in the U.S.  Not 
sure how long I will be able to sustain that level of exposure.  It is 
very expensive and requires more time and effort than I have to offer 
lately.  It was a dream of mine to get products in the retail market, 
but have come to appreciate other forms of sales much more.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sun Aug 15 02:23:36 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 23:23:36 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading Menus
In-Reply-To: <24.5dc1aa72.2e5054c3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD444F78.6FA7%moe2@shaw.ca>

i can find no reference to event firing, child, grandchild, parent,
offspring menuItems in the RR documentation ... where do you find these
terms in the documentation?

i am not talking about "some programs" ... this is a Runtime Revolution chat
site


> When a child or grandchild menuitem is selected, each of the higher level
> parent menuitems could indicate that one (or more) of their offspring is
> active  
> with a dedicated symbol mark.
> 
> As for event firing, you are correct of course for Rev. Some programs,
> however, do allow parent menuitems to accept events.
> /H
> 
> 
>> I  believe the reason you can't is that no event gets fired by releasing
>> on the parent, isn't that correct?
>> 
>> If so, I don't think it  would qualify as a "bug" since AFAIK, menus
>> aren't *supposed* to work  that way.
>> --
>> Troy
> 
> 
>> I think the request is not  only a child  sub-menu checked but also the
>> parent. If this is the  case, the answer seems to  be no you cannot.
>> Which I agree  is
>> a bit odd as it would certainly help to track  down checked  sub-menus
>> when
>> you cannot see them, but then Apple is trying  to  abolish hierarchical
>> menus anyway.
>> /H
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 15 02:38:28 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 02:38:28 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <411EFFEE.3070104@fourthworld.com>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
	<CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411E4C2F.2090001@hyperactivesw.com>
	<518DE46E-EE71-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411EFFEE.3070104@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B7D5CAAB-EE85-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 15, 2004, at 2:17 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> To me, data grids are a pretty critical functionality....
>
> For me too, but I think you're talking about a very specific 
> implementation of a data grid, perhaps the type one sees in 
> spreadsheets or the type supported by HTML.

Not HTML. But speadsheets, or iTunes, or many other data grid driven 
program types.

>
> The built-in multi-column field has been doing me just fine for years. 
> You can put up to 4GB of tab-delimited data into it and get instant 
> results by setting the tabStops property. It supports most of the 
> behaviors commonly associated with database display, including 
> properties for selecting either single or multiple lines, and even 
> discontiguous selection.

Yes, and I've used those features, and it can work OK, but well, it 
just isn't powerful enough, and frankly, too flakey, especially if the 
user is to be able to edit the content. Layout is clumsy...

>> where entire multi-field cards are used instead of a single 
>> multi-column line in a grid. This is not a workable solution in many 
>> cases, since it doesn't support relational sorting, etc.
>
> What is "relational sorting"?

Column sorting. Obviously cards full of fields do not support column 
sorting, so I put it into another term. Relational sorting (column 
sorting) allowing rows to be sorted by the different relationships they 
have with the columns.

>
> The built-in sort command will do well with the built-in multi-column 
> list object, with the only caeat being that no single line of text can 
> be longer than 64k (which is probably wider than would be practical 
> for most common uses anyway).

Yes, I'm sure that is far wider than is needed. But a multi-column 
field doesn't do a very good job of simulating a data grid. I don't 
doubt that you have found it OK for your applications, or somehow made 
it work. In my case, the market particular product will be very 
critical of this, and anything less than "so good they don't notice 
anything other than good" is too little.

>
>> It isn't an actual OS native grid
>
> Where did you get the impression any OS provides a data grid control?
>
> If there's a native data grid control in OS X or XP it's very new; for 
> the previous 20 years everyone rolled their own.

Well, Applescript studio has one, so on the Mac at least it my not be 
part of the OS, but it is provided by Apple for constructing UI... I 
should probably say "one which appears native, matches the rest of the 
OS, and would be considered by the end user to seem appropriate on 
their system."
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug 15 02:43:06 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 23:43:06 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <BD444E0D.6FA3%moe2@shaw.ca>
References: <BD444E0D.6FA3%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <411F05FA.2090504@fourthworld.com>

moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:

 > of course one should be able script menus with cascading menus ...
 > and the scripter should be able to allow the user to place a
 > checkmark before menu items and before the cascade menus also

Where in any HIG is there a recommendation to put a checkmark before a 
cascading menu?  Or even an app that exibits this behavior?

Of course there are many examples of checkmarks next to menu items, even 
submenu items, but I don't believe I've ever seen an app that puts a 
checkmark next to a menu or submenu itself.

This seems appropriate, given that a checkmark notes an active setting; 
when a menu has its own menu items but the checkmark is placed in the 
menu itself, what would it signify?

 > where in the RR documentation is there a reference to "parent" ?

I don't believe "parent" is a keyword.

However, searching for "checkmark" with the Search Documentation tool 
yields eight items in v2.2, with "Recipe for checkMarking a menu item" 
probably the best bet for what you're looking for.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug 15 02:46:32 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 01:46:32 -0500
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading Menus
In-Reply-To: <BD444F78.6FA7%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <BD4470F8.3EBA%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/15/04 1:23 AM, "moe2 at shaw.ca" <moe2 at shaw.ca> wrote:

> i can find no reference to event firing, child, grandchild, parent,
> offspring menuItems in the RR documentation ... where do you find these
> terms in the documentation?

The aren't. They're conceptual descriptions that we're using to help us try
to figure out what you're trying to accomplish. I wouldn't get hung up on
those.

So let me get this straight - you have a *stack* menu that has multiple menu
buttons on it. One of those is a cascade type menu button. When you try to
set the checkmark of some *other* button on the stack by using the example
script (i.e. putting "!c" before the contents of the button), it doesn't get
a check mark.

Do I have that right? If so, do you see the "!c" in the name of the button,
or does just nothing happen? And can I ask why you're using a menu *stack*
instead of setting the contents of a menu button?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From toncardona at mac.com  Sun Aug 15 03:36:40 2004
From: toncardona at mac.com (Ton Cardona)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:36:40 +0200
Subject: How to detect which files need an update
Message-ID: <D8D3EF20-EE8D-11D8-BC8B-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>

Thanks a lot to Dar, Troy and Andre.

The trouble is I am unable to convert the internet date I get from the 
FTP to seconds. Sounds silly, but I have tried again an again with no 
success and since the modification date in the files function is given 
in seconds, I am at a loss.

I am using Revolution 2.1 on a Mac system 10.3.4.

Thanks to you all in advance.

Ton


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sun Aug 15 03:34:10 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 00:34:10 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <411F05FA.2090504@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BD446002.6FAE%moe2@shaw.ca>

ALL of the stack that i have written have special menus. some menuItems are
checked when that window is active (like the tool palette in RR) OR for
example the user has to chose a parameter ... the choice is reflected in a
checkmark before the cascaded menu chosen

i am surprised that this is so unfamiliar to all of you out there. i have
taught this in ALL hyperCard classes ... and i expect to do the same in RR

scope out the font menu ... there is checkmark beside the font in use in any
word processor app

check out menu ?Window? in AppleWorks app, the menuItem ?Page View? has a
toggled checkmark

open a number of documents in AppleWorks app ... select menu ?Window? and
you will see a checkmark before the active window

check out ?auto-calculate? in menu ?Calculate? when in AppleWorks
spreadsheat

check out the "Button Bar" and the "Address Bar" in Explorer ... both are
checkable

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

where is there a "recommendation" to purchase RR.

> moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:
> 
>> of course one should be able script menus with cascading menus ...
>> and the scripter should be able to allow the user to place a
>> checkmark before menu items and before the cascade menus also
> 
> Where in any HIG is there a recommendation to put a checkmark before a
> cascading menu?  Or even an app that exibits this behavior?
> 
> Of course there are many examples of checkmarks next to menu items, even
> submenu items, but I don't believe I've ever seen an app that puts a
> checkmark next to a menu or submenu itself.
> 
> This seems appropriate, given that a checkmark notes an active setting;
> when a menu has its own menu items but the checkmark is placed in the
> menu itself, what would it signify?

it would signify an active setting ... just as you said

>> where in the RR documentation is there a reference to "parent" ?
> 
> I don't believe "parent" is a keyword.

i dont believe it is either ... that is why i was asking where people find
these terms in the RR documentation ... true i have not memorized every word
> 
> However, searching for "checkmark" with the Search Documentation tool
> yields eight items in v2.2, with "Recipe for checkMarking a menu item"
> probably the best bet for what you're looking for.

exactly, now we are getting somewhere. i have memorized these sections. and
as you see in the documentation that a cascade menu is displayed in a window
along with this is the RR documentation of how to place a checkMark and
remove a check mark IN ANY MENU ... including a cascade menu

now that we are on the same page ... this is my problem. i CAN with SCRIPT
to put a check mark in a menus and take them out but i can NOT put a
checkmark in a cascade menu ... AND i can NOT get the checkmarks to appear
in the correct menu when there is more than one drop down menu with one of
the menus having a cascade menu ... the checkmarks appear but on the wrong
menuItems

to simplify this question ... i asked if someone could write the script to
check and uncheck the example that is in the documentation ... the specific
location of the cascade menu is outlined on an earlier msg. this reference
is easy to find, since RR help documentation is easy to navigate around

so Mr. Gaskin show me that RR script can be written to check and uncheck the
example in the documentation !   i say RR has a bug here, but i dont want to
be to cocky about this since you people are the RR guru's and know RR inside
and out ... i thought this would take less than a minute of your time

i was hoping that Ms. Landman Gay would code this for me or any one of the
other creators of RR. i still think the documentation is incorrect, i wish
to be proven wrong



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sun Aug 15 04:58:45 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:58:45 +0200
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <DA21ABC8-EE83-11D8-95D6-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<CEDAE744-ED6B-11D8-BC70-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
	<B96BFEDC-EE27-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
	<DA21ABC8-EE83-11D8-95D6-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <5081BDE5-EE99-11D8-875D-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 15.08.2004, at 08:25, Mark Talluto wrote:

> Canela means cinnamon in Spanish.
that was the reason why i asked, because its promising something sweet. 
Canela is what we in the euopean cooking use a lot for sweets;))

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speedlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Aug 15 05:55:06 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:55:06 +0200
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <DA21ABC8-EE83-11D8-95D6-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELGGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


Have you tried contacting a publisher / distributor?
Maybe there's specialized ones for educational markets
but in general, they can take that load off your back
eventually.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Mark
> Talluto
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 08:25
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 14, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:
> 
> >
> > On 13.08.2004, at 23:00, Mark Talluto wrote:
> >
> >> Just for fun I shall mention that my apps are in about 2000 stores 
> >> across the U.S.  ;)
> >
> > because you are called canela?;)
> >
> > No serious, which app is that?
> >
> 
> Canela means cinnamon in Spanish.  I don't think it has improved my 
> sales much with the Spanish speaking countries.  Oh well...
> Math Generator, Lesson Plan Generator, Primary Generator, and my 
> Classroom Fonts collection are in most teacher stores in the U.S.  Not 
> sure how long I will be able to sustain that level of exposure.  It is 
> very expensive and requires more time and effort than I have to offer 
> lately.  It was a dream of mine to get products in the retail market, 
> but have come to appreciate other forms of sales much more.
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Mark Talluto
> http://www.canelasoftware.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Aug 15 05:46:34 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:46:34 +0100
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading 	menus
	Re: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading 	menus
In-Reply-To: <20040814224250.2BD13930105@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040814224250.2BD13930105@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <FE9DD912-EE9F-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

On Aug 14, 2004, at 11:42 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> From: Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net>
> Subject: Re: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading
> 	menus
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <C99D8BC5-EE31-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8 at rpsystems.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2004, at 2:05 PM, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:
>
>> I think the request is not only a child  sub-menu checked but also the
>> parent. If this is the case, the answer seems to  be no you cannot.
>> Which I agree is
>> a bit odd as it would certainly help to track  down checked sub-menus
>> when
>> you cannot see them, but then Apple is trying to  abolish hierarchical
>> menus
>> anyway.
>
> I believe the reason you can't is that no event gets fired by releasing
> on the parent, isn't that correct?
>
> If so, I don't think it would qualify as a "bug" since AFAIK, menus
> aren't *supposed* to work that way.
>

That's correct -- on the Mac (not sure about Windows), disabled and 
sub-menu items are always considered unselectable, i.e. when you 
release on a disabled menu item or on a sub-menu item, no menu item is 
chosen or reported.

You can, using the Mac toolbox directly (i.e. not via RR), see if a 
sub-menu or disabled item has been selected by calling another 
function, MenuChoice().  That function was added so that things like 
Help systems could find out if the user had selected a disabled item, 
or a sub-menu item.

-- Frank

Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/



From wbl at wilddsl.net.au  Sun Aug 15 06:03:35 2004
From: wbl at wilddsl.net.au (Bruce Laidlaw)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:03:35 +1000
Subject: sound in revolution nr. 666
In-Reply-To: <27D5B8D4-ED05-11D8-98C4-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <20040806031800.ADE819300FF@mail.runrev.com>
	<001401c47c8a$deb60b60$5602a8c0@athalon> <411C344D.7050301@wilddsl.net.au>
	<27D5B8D4-ED05-11D8-98C4-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <411F34F7.10005@wilddsl.net.au>

Thanks, guys,

I've changed the script to 'play audioclip "applause.wav"' and imported 
the sound as a control. However, it now doesn't work on Mac.

Do I need to have two versions of each sound? I would then use the 
systemVersion to see what operating system the program is on.

I don't particularly want to have two versions of the runrev stack, one 
for mac and one for windows. Is that what everone else does?

Bruce
PS. Klaus, my street number is 666. How did you know?

Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Bruce,
>
>> Hi, Steve, Judy, Klause,
>>
>> Sorry, I've only been have half-attending/understanding. I have a HC 
>> stack with the line
>>
>> play "applause"
>>
>> "Applause" was just a HC sound file. Translated into Rev the new 
>> stack works fine on Mac and Windows.
>>  However the only Windows machine I can test it on has QT intalled.
>> Are you saying this won't work if QT is not installed in the Windows 
>> machine?
>
>
> No :-)
>
>> If I change the script to 'play audioclip "applause.wav"' AND install 
>> a "applause.wav" into
>> my Rev stack then it should play fine on Windows machines without 
>> Quicktime?
>
>
> Yes :-)
>
> But you cannot mix then, means you cannot use "play ac xyz" AND QT 
> player objects in the
> same project on windows!
>
> If you use the command "play ac xyz" then the engine uses:
>
>> ...that uses QT, which although much slower and more memory intensive 
>> can play many
>> more formats than the default play command which uses low-level sound 
>> routines in
>> Win32 and MacOS which don't support compression.
>>
>> Posted 9/2/2002 by Scott Raney to the MetaCard List
>
>
> But if you use "player" objects, the engine tries to use QT, if 
> installed, and WMP
> (WinMediaPlayer) if not...
>
>> Steve, what do you mean by "One has to script the player bit...."?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Bruce
>
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major



From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Sun Aug 15 06:27:06 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 06:27:06 EDT
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
Message-ID: <f7.3e621764.2e50947a@aol.com>

> now that we are on the same page ... this is my problem. i CAN with  SCRIPT
> to put a check mark in a menus and take them out but i can NOT  put a
> checkmark in a cascade menu ... AND i can NOT get the checkmarks  to appear
> in the correct menu when there is more than one drop down menu  with one of
> the menus having a cascade menu ... the checkmarks appear  but on the wrong
> menuItems


1. Use a Cascade button-style for  menu stacks you build yourself.
2. For a simple hierarchical menu, use tab  indents in the text of the button 
to implement sub-menus.
3. To place a  checkmark next to a menuItem or hierarchical menuItem, put !c 
at the _start_ of  the line...

Apples
A1
A2
A3
Pears
!c      P1
P2
P2.1
!c            P2.2
P3

Note that checkmarks will  fail to display if you try to use them for 
menuItems that have sub-menus (ie.  'parents' cannot show that their 'children' are 
checkmarked). Checkmarks also  fail to display if you place the checkmark 
anywhere other than at the beginning  of the line (syntax rules). Note also that as 
soon as a menuItem or sub-menuItem  has any checkmark identifier (!c or !n or 
!r or !u), all menuItems at all levels  will display offset to the right.

To script the example above, you could  use the format notation of \n to 
indicate a new line and \t to indicate a  tab...

put  
"Apples\n\tA1\n\tA2\n\tA3\nPears\n!c\tP1\n\tP2\n\t\tP2.1\n!c\t\tP2.2\n\tP3" into  tStr
set the text of btn "MyHierMenu" to format(tStr)

To dynamically  build menus, place the script in a mouseDown handler. For 
example, in a button  try this...

on mouseDown
put  
"Apples\n\tA1\n\tA2\n\tA3\nPears\n!c\tP1\n\tP2\n\t\tP2.1\n!c\t\tP2.2\n\tP3" into  tStr
set the text of me to format(tStr)
end mouseDown

Final point: If the menus are dynamically built in a menubar group,  place 
the menu-building script in the background script of the group as the  button 
itself will not receive the mouseDown message.
 

Hope this helps you. Your frustration is evident in the tone of your  message.

/H
 

From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug 15 06:41:32 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 12:41:32 +0200
Subject: sound in revolution nr. 666
In-Reply-To: <411F34F7.10005@wilddsl.net.au>
References: <20040806031800.ADE819300FF@mail.runrev.com>
	<001401c47c8a$deb60b60$5602a8c0@athalon> <411C344D.7050301@wilddsl.net.au>
	<27D5B8D4-ED05-11D8-98C4-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<411F34F7.10005@wilddsl.net.au>
Message-ID: <AC5773C6-EEA7-11D8-A69B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Bruce,

> Thanks, guys,
>
> I've changed the script to 'play audioclip "applause.wav"' and 
> imported the sound as a control. However, it now doesn't work on Mac.

Huh?

I ONLY knew this problem "vice versa" -> ...but doesn't work on windows 
:-D

Can you play that sound with QuickTime Player on the mac?

My personal advice:
Use the AU format for your internal sounds...
I do it all the time and NEVER had problems with it...
They will even play on linux/unix (if necessary... ;-)

AU is the only COMPRESSED file format that is supported by the
"play ac xyz" command!

> Do I need to have two versions of each sound? I would then use the 
> systemVersion
> to see what operating system the program is on.
> I don't particularly want to have two versions of the runrev stack, 
> one for mac and
> one for windows.

I don't think you will have to go THAT far ;-)

> Is that what everone else does?

See above...

> Bruce
> PS. Klaus, my street number is 666. How did you know?

That's an easy one: I am omniscient 8-D


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Sun Aug 15 06:44:12 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 06:44:12 EDT
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
Message-ID: <19c.27fbe9d6.2e50987c@aol.com>

In a message dated 15/08/2004 10:30:31 GMT  Daylight Time, moe2 at shaw.ca 
writes:

> so Mr. Gaskin show me that RR  script can be written to check and uncheck 
the
> example in the  documentation !   i say RR has a bug here, but i dont want 
to
>  be to cocky about this since you people are the RR guru's and know RR  
inside
> and out ... i thought this would take less than a minute of your  time
> 
> i was hoping that Ms. Landman Gay would code this for me  or any one of the
> other creators of RR. i still think the documentation  is incorrect, i wish
> to be proven wrong


This is a discussion  list, not a scripting service. If you want a scripting 
service, Revolution  offers this for a fee. Otherwise, individual list members 
offer help and  guidance according their abilities and understanding of the 
problem but are  under no obligation to do so.

/H  


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 15 07:16:09 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 07:16:09 -0400
Subject: sound in revolution nr. 666
In-Reply-To: <AC5773C6-EEA7-11D8-A69B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <20040806031800.ADE819300FF@mail.runrev.com>
	<001401c47c8a$deb60b60$5602a8c0@athalon> <411C344D.7050301@wilddsl.net.au>
	<27D5B8D4-ED05-11D8-98C4-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<411F34F7.10005@wilddsl.net.au>
	<AC5773C6-EEA7-11D8-A69B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <823F4AB0-EEAC-11D8-90EF-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Am I missing something here?  I import a WAV file into Rev then play it 
using:  play "Applause.wav"  I have no problems with doing it this way 
on Mac OS X or Win XP.


On Aug 15, 2004, at 6:41 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Bruce,
>
>> Thanks, guys,
>>
>> I've changed the script to 'play audioclip "applause.wav"' and 
>> imported the sound as a control. However, it now doesn't work on Mac.
>
> Huh?
>
> I ONLY knew this problem "vice versa" -> ...but doesn't work on 
> windows :-D
>
> Can you play that sound with QuickTime Player on the mac?
>
> My personal advice:
> Use the AU format for your internal sounds...
> I do it all the time and NEVER had problems with it...
> They will even play on linux/unix (if necessary... ;-)
>
> AU is the only COMPRESSED file format that is supported by the
> "play ac xyz" command!
>
>> Do I need to have two versions of each sound? I would then use the 
>> systemVersion
>> to see what operating system the program is on.
>> I don't particularly want to have two versions of the runrev stack, 
>> one for mac and
>> one for windows.
>
> I don't think you will have to go THAT far ;-)
>
>> Is that what everone else does?
>
> See above...
>
>> Bruce
>> PS. Klaus, my street number is 666. How did you know?
>
> That's an easy one: I am omniscient 8-D
>
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Sun Aug 15 07:20:33 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 07:20:33 EDT
Subject: Firewall question
Message-ID: <159.3c8bc052.2e50a101@aol.com>

Is anyone able to enlighten me about the difference between setting the  
httpProxy and including UserName:Password@ in an http url?
 
Ouch! Did I write that?
 
Okay... Simple question in terms of outcome... How do I get The Scripter's  
Scrapbook to access web addresses behind a Firewall? Is adding  
UserName:Password@ to a url enough?
 
/H

From scott at bc.edu  Sun Aug 15 10:03:08 2004
From: scott at bc.edu (Scott Kinder)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:03:08 -0400
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading 
Message-ID: <D624DFEF-EEC3-11D8-9A6F-000A956863E2@bc.edu>

There is an issue with cascading menus and the menuHistory property:

 From the Rev docs:

Note:  The effect of the menuHistory property in cascading menus is 
ambiguous. Avoid setting or relying on the menuHistory of a cascading 
menu.

This is ugly and stupid, but works:

on menuPick pWhich

   repeat with i = 1 to the number of menuitems of btn "help"
     put menuitem i of btn "help" & return after helpmenuitems
   end repeat
   set the itemDel to "|"
   get lineOffset(item 2 of pWhich,helpmenuitems)
   if char 1 to 2 of menuitem it of btn "help" = "!c" then
     delete char 1 to 2 of menuitem it of btn "help"
   else
     put "!c" before menuitem it of btn "help"
   end if
.
.
.
This allows multiple checkmarks in the same submenu, so if you did not 
want that, some additional code would be required.

Scott


From djh at mac.com  Sun Aug 15 10:22:51 2004
From: djh at mac.com (Derek Hadlington)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:22:51 +0100
Subject: Win XP SP2, anyone tried it?
In-Reply-To: <411C329A.2050808@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <200408151422.i7FEMnBA010166@mac.com>

Ditto here been using Rev with SP2 for several weeks with no apparent
problems.

Regards
Derek

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Chipp Walters
Sent: 13 August 2004 04:17
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Win XP SP2, anyone tried it?

Hi Dave,

I've used it at the office with Hemingway. Seems to work just fine with 
the embedded firewall turned on. We haven't tested it against any proxy 
servers just yet.

-Chipp

Dave Cragg wrote:

> SP2 for Win XP is now available. But I'm temporarily stuck on a dial-up 
> connection, so am unlikely to be able to try it out soon. So if anyone 
> has installed it (or is about to), I'd be interested to know of any 
> problems ecountered by Rev, or better yet, to hear that it works 
> flawlessly.


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug 15 11:17:03 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 08:17:03 -0700
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <B7D5CAAB-EE85-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
	<CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411E4C2F.2090001@hyperactivesw.com>
	<518DE46E-EE71-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411EFFEE.3070104@fourthworld.com>
	<B7D5CAAB-EE85-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411F7E6F.90608@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:

> On Aug 15, 2004, at 2:17 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>>> To me, data grids are a pretty critical functionality....
>>
>> For me too, but I think you're talking about a very specific 
>> implementation of a data grid, perhaps the type one sees in 
>> spreadsheets or the type supported by HTML.
> 
> Not HTML. But speadsheets, or iTunes, or many other data grid driven 
> program types.

Spreadsheets and iTunes are very different creatures.

Therein lies the difficulty in satisfying the request:  so many options,
so little specification.

>> The built-in multi-column field has been doing me just fine for years. 
>> You can put up to 4GB of tab-delimited data into it and get instant 
>> results by setting the tabStops property. It supports most of the 
>> behaviors commonly associated with database display, including 
>> properties for selecting either single or multiple lines, and even 
>> discontiguous selection.
> 
> Yes, and I've used those features, and it can work OK, but well, it just 
> isn't powerful enough, and frankly, too flakey, especially if the user 
> is to be able to edit the content. Layout is clumsy...

I'm not sure we're talking about the same things.  Not that what you're
looking for is necessarily trivial, but rather on the contrary: there
are MANY types of multi-column lists, if you observe them closely.
There is no one-size-fits-all.

Some specifics about what you're looking for would be helpful in
providing a solution, but you've already ruled that out: you'll accept
nothing that isn't built into the engine, and no one can build it into
the engine until its details have been specified.

>>> where entire multi-field cards are used instead of a single 
>>> multi-column line in a grid. This is not a workable solution in many 
>>> cases, since it doesn't support relational sorting, etc.
>>
>> What is "relational sorting"?
>
> Column sorting. Obviously cards full of fields do not support column 
> sorting, so I put it into another term. Relational sorting (column 
> sorting) allowing rows to be sorted by the different relationships they 
> have with the columns.

For the rare case like Jacque's grid, which is very different from
iTunes in that it support multiple lines per cell, yes, that's tough.

But for single-line cells the built-in list field will use the built-in
sort command:

   set the itemdel to tab
   sort lines of fld 1 by item 4 of each

>> The built-in sort command will do well with the built-in multi-column 
>> list object, with the only caeat being that no single line of text can 
>> be longer than 64k (which is probably wider than would be practical 
>> for most common uses anyway).
> 
> Yes, I'm sure that is far wider than is needed. But a multi-column field 
> doesn't do a very good job of simulating a data grid. I don't doubt that 
> you have found it OK for your applications, or somehow made it work. In 
> my case, the market particular product will be very critical of this, 
> and anything less than "so good they don't notice anything other than 
> good" is too little.

You seem to be referring to grids in which a cell has multiple lines.
Because this is very different from iTunes, which you also cite as an
example, it becomes difficult to understand what you're looking for.

Given the world of difference between the two I hope you'll forgive the
confusion and, if you'll reconsider the requirement that it be fully
engine-based we might be able to provide what you need once we
understand it.

>>> It isn't an actual OS native grid
>>
>> Where did you get the impression any OS provides a data grid control?
>>
>> If there's a native data grid control in OS X or XP it's very new; for 
>> the previous 20 years everyone rolled their own.
> 
> Well, Applescript studio has one, so on the Mac at least it my not be 
> part of the OS, but it is provided by Apple for constructing UI... I 
> should probably say "one which appears native, matches the rest of the 
> OS, and would be considered by the end user to seem appropriate on their 
> system."

And there's the rub:  we've already identified three very different
types of multi-column lists: spreadsheets, multi-line cell types, and
the more common iTunes style (single-line cells but without the
spreadsheet behaviors), and we haven't really even started examing the
full range of options yet (headers, selection/sorting/binding/resizing
options, etc.).

These are not subtle differences; data grids are inherently complex
objects.  This is probably why OS vendors haven't bothered to make an
API for one.

Consider the many options that go into describing the appearance and
behavior of the many types of multi-column lists in common use.  Then
multiply that by the number of OSes supported and you begin to get a
feel for the complexity of the task.

Specs have been proposed to RunRev for such widgets, and even in their
more focused form, which does not attempt to address all types of
multi-column lists, the number of properties was more than two dozen.

So there are three options at hand:

- Specify what you need and let's see if someone has what
   you're looking for in scripted form.

- Specify what you need and let's see if it could be added
   to the engine.

- Send us a postcard from El Dorado
   (ride, bodly ride, the shade replied...)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug 15 11:32:20 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 08:32:20 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <BD446002.6FAE%moe2@shaw.ca>
References: <BD446002.6FAE%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <411F8204.1090700@fourthworld.com>

moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:

> ALL of the stack that i have written have special menus. some menuItems are
> checked when that window is active (like the tool palette in RR) OR for
> example the user has to chose a parameter ... the choice is reflected in a
> checkmark before the cascaded menu chosen

Ah, this is a much clearer explanation.  It seems many here had the 
impression that when you wrote that you wanted a checkmark next to a 
cascading menu that you wanted a checkmark next to a cascading menu.

It's now clear that what you really want is a checkmark next to menu 
ITEMS in a cascading menu, which is of course common and is easy to do 
in Rev.

>>>where in the RR documentation is there a reference to "parent" ?
>>
>>I don't believe "parent" is a keyword.
>
> i dont believe it is either ... that is why i was asking where people find
> these terms in the RR documentation ... true i have not memorized every word

Heck, me neither.  That would of course be silly.

But if looking for abstract terms like "parent" isn't yielding what 
you're looking for, trying a more concrete expression that more 
specifically describes what you want might work.  You're looking for 
info on checkmarks in cascade menus, so searching for "checkmark" or 
"cascade" would seem worth trying.

>>However, searching for "checkmark" with the Search Documentation tool
>>yields eight items in v2.2, with "Recipe for checkMarking a menu item"
>>probably the best bet for what you're looking for.
> 
> exactly, now we are getting somewhere. i have memorized these sections. and
> as you see in the documentation that a cascade menu is displayed in a window
> along with this is the RR documentation of how to place a checkMark and
> remove a check mark IN ANY MENU ... including a cascade menu
> 
> now that we are on the same page ... this is my problem. i CAN with SCRIPT
> to put a check mark in a menus and take them out but i can NOT put a
> checkmark in a cascade menu ... AND i can NOT get the checkmarks to appear
> in the correct menu when there is more than one drop down menu with one of
> the menus having a cascade menu ... the checkmarks appear but on the wrong
> menuItems

It's impossible to know where your script is failing without seeing it. 
  Please post it and one of us will make it work.

> so Mr. Gaskin show me that RR script can be written to check and uncheck the
> example in the documentation !   i say RR has a bug here

That doesn't follow: if you found what you need why is that a bug?

> i was hoping that Ms. Landman Gay would code this for me or any one of the
> other creators of RR.

That Jacque generously gives thousands of dollars' worth of her 
consulting time here for free is a noble thing.  To expect or demand 
that she work for free is not.

 > i still think the documentation is incorrect, i wish to be proven wrong

Hard to say since you haven't noted what you feel is a bug.

Getting back to results, if you post the code you have I'm sure someone 
here will fix it.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 15 11:34:31 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:34:31 -0400
Subject: How to detect which files need an update
In-Reply-To: <D8D3EF20-EE8D-11D8-BC8B-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
References: <D8D3EF20-EE8D-11D8-BC8B-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <9A0440A4-EED0-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 15, 2004, at 3:36 AM, Ton Cardona wrote:

> The trouble is I am unable to convert the internet date I get from the 
> FTP to seconds. Sounds silly, but I have tried again an again with no 
> success and since the modification date in the files function is given 
> in seconds, I am at a loss.

I honestly think you are going to have a hard time if the only 
comparison you do is between the FTP's date, and the local machine's 
date. You need to maintain a catalogue, and in that catalogue, you can 
just store the date in the format the FTP supplies to compare the next 
time you connect. Anything else will be very likely to be unreliable, 
if only a little.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug 15 11:46:49 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:46:49 -0500
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading  menus
 Re: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading  menus
In-Reply-To: <FE9DD912-EE9F-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BD44EF99.3EFC%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/15/04 4:46 AM, "Frank Leahy" <frank at backtalk.com> wrote:

>
> That's correct -- on the Mac (not sure about Windows), disabled and
> sub-menu items are always considered unselectable, i.e. when you
> release on a disabled menu item or on a sub-menu item, no menu item is
> chosen or reported.

Well, that's true for disabled menu items, but not for sub-menu items - so
long as you remove the "autoarm" property. If you do that, what you get back
is the form: <menuItemName>|<subMenuItemName|<subSubMenuItemName>, so in a
menu that looks like this:

Test
    SubTest1
        SubSubTest1
        SubSubTest2
    SubTest2

If you pick "SubSubTest2", you get back in "menuPick":

  Tets|SubTest1|SubSubTest2

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug 15 11:50:19 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:50:19 -0500
Subject: How to detect which files need an update
In-Reply-To: <D8D3EF20-EE8D-11D8-BC8B-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BD44F06B.3EFF%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/15/04 2:36 AM, "Ton Cardona" <toncardona at mac.com> wrote:

> Thanks a lot to Dar, Troy and Andre.
> 
> The trouble is I am unable to convert the internet date I get from the
> FTP to seconds. Sounds silly, but I have tried again an again with no
> success and since the modification date in the files function is given
> in seconds, I am at a loss.

Ton, can you put the date into a variable and use "convert" on it? If not,
what error are you getting? It's my understanding that as long as the
internet date is formatted properly, it should work. I've used Rev's own
"internet date" format for my test, so if I do this:

  put the internet date
  -- returns: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:49:27 -0500

  put the internet date into tDate
  convert tDate to seconds
  put tDate
  -- returns 1092585002

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Aug 15 13:18:27 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:18:27 -0800
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <20040815085407.54DAB930142@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD44DAE2.74C6%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Erik,

> Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:34:37 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Erik Hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
> 
> mci & mciSendString()
> mci MIDI in 3 steps
> 
> these use MIDI files. is there a Windows way
> to convert xTalk commands like
> play "60q 62e 64e" -- to MIDI files?

Not sure. I know "ShakoBox" works in Rev on the Mac. Did you try it?

Jacque can speak to this better.

Ken N.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Aug 15 12:35:52 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:35:52 -0500
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <BD446002.6FAE%moe2@shaw.ca>
References: <BD446002.6FAE%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <411F90E8.70203@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/15/04 2:34 AM, moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:

> i was hoping that Ms. Landman Gay would code this for me or any one of the
> other creators of RR. 

I appreciate the defense Richard and Hugh gave for my time (which is 
very limited right now,) but I might have done this anyway. I'm usually 
a sucker for an appeal to pride. ;)

But I think Hugh gave you a pretty good answer. Does it work for you?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug 15 12:47:16 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:47:16 -0700
Subject: Versions of RR+ whats about?!
In-Reply-To: <A88CFBFA-EE30-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
References: <BD428067.2BEA%kevin@runrev.com>
	<C0CB950D-ED38-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411D06BE.7000703@fourthworld.com>
	<A88CFBFA-EE30-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <411F9394.6040309@fourthworld.com>

Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:

> 
> On 13.08.2004, at 20:21, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> If I had nothing but time on my hands I've been itching to make an 
>> iShell-like IDE just to show off the engine's versatility.  But with 
>> so many folks already enjoying Rev, even if I somehow got the time I'd 
>> probably implement it as a plugin so folks could use it easily within 
>> their favorite IDE.
>
> Richard,
> you are in the third year promising that;))

And the original offer still stands: if someone wants to pay my bills 
for a month or two they can have it. :)

> Sometimes in life everybody could/has/should think not only in time and 
> money. I know thats very hard to understand for you americans, but there 
> is a bit more in life than time and money...

While I agree with many European perceptions about Americans, it's 
rarely useful to consider all members of any group to have the same 
traits (i.e., "steroetyping").  Not all Irishmen are alcoholics, some 
Brits can indeed cook, and I've never in my life met a lazy Mexican.

I am not alone here in a lifestyle that includes a signficant amount of 
not-for-profit work.  For starters, as a matter of company policy I 
donate 10% of my billable time to non-profit organizations, and during 
times when I have an assistant that person is instructed to do the same 
(Fourth World pays for their time, as it does mine).

I make a few contributions to this community as well.

Multiply my best effort times ten and you'd get a feel for the 
generosity of a good many people in my community.

For all that can be said about American culture at this moment, 
individual Americans are often very different from the values projected 
by our corporate conglomerates and the politicians beholden to them. 
This is true of most cultures.

> I know you are one of the best scripter here and you did a great tool 
> with MC, what needs much more than scripting...

It's open source, and fully brancheable into any form anyone likes: you 
can do whatever you want with it at any time.

> Whats abgout finding 15 minutes a day and wasting them to show us (me 
> Dummy) how that unfulfilled promise can be realized anytime. If it takes 
> monthes half a year or more... it doesnt matter.

With one limitation:  I don't personally have any use for it.

For myself such a very different IDE is merely an intellectual exercise, 
but I have no shortage of things to try to keep my mind nimble.

If you find value in it you might consider building it yourself, or 
starting an open source collective which could pool the efforts of many 
like-minded developers.

Here's what I can bring to the table:  a plugin to make switching 
between IDEs as simple as a single click.

It's called FlipsIDE, and it's being developed now in my spare time.
And yes, it will be free.

So the question is:  What will you do with it?

In the meantime I'm going to spend today's 15 minutes enjoying a latte 
and doing no coding at all for anyone while I watch the boulevardier....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Aug 15 12:49:18 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:49:18 -0500
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <518DE46E-EE71-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
	<CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411E4C2F.2090001@hyperactivesw.com>
	<518DE46E-EE71-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411F940E.8010407@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/14/04 11:12 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> 
> On Aug 14, 2004, at 1:30 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>> I built one of these some years ago:
>>
>> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/downloads/pseudtbl.mc.hqx>
>>
>> You'll probably want to adjust the behavior, but it might get you 
>> started. The method has some limitations but can work in the right 
>> circumstances.
> 
> 
> I grabbed that demo, and I must say, it is really nice, and very 
> impressive. That said, with no intent to snub the obvious expertise, it 
> is hundreds of lines of custom code, which delivers a one-off solution, 
> which still does not really behave like a "standard" data grid. This 
> leads me only to believe that without a built-in solution, a generically 
> useful and practical data grid is simply beyond our current capabilities.

No offense taken; the demo was written to address a particular need and 
it isn't suitable for all applications. It did what I needed it to do in 
one of my projects.

That said, I think it is possible to write just about any type of grid 
in Transcript, though as you say it could be time-consuming. I've also 
done Excel-type interfaces, where an editable field accepts user input 
and then places that input into a tabbed-field table object. This solves 
the problem of editing "cells"; all editing is done inside the entry 
field. If Excel can do it, so can I, and users are generally used to 
this type of editing.

Single-line data tables such as iTunes uses are easy to make. Just trap 
the tabKey message and insert a return character if the insertion point 
is in the last "cell". You can sort the field by column using standard 
"sort" syntax ("sort field 1 by item 3 of each", etc.) You can resize 
columns by resetting tabstops. I do this routinely. You can even create 
a "header" field that allows the user to drag out the columns to the 
widths they want, and when they release the mouse, set your data grid to 
the same tabstops (there are several different ways to implement the HIG 
for this.) Or resize the grid dynamically during the header drag; Rev is 
fast enough to do it.

If neither of these types of grid are what you need, tell us what you 
are looking for. There is nearly always a way to script it.

Real "table objects" are on the requested feature list, and I know the 
team has been considering how to implement them. It is a difficult thing 
to create, but I believe the plan is to try to build one for a future 
release. Meanwhile, most of us have been scripting our own solutions for 
years. It can be done.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From sims at ezpzapps.com  Sun Aug 15 13:08:17 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:08:17 +0200
Subject: Versions of RR+ whats about?!
In-Reply-To: <411F9394.6040309@fourthworld.com>
References: <BD428067.2BEA%kevin@runrev.com>
 <C0CB950D-ED38-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
 <411D06BE.7000703@fourthworld.com>
 <A88CFBFA-EE30-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
 <411F9394.6040309@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06110411bd45482e2999@[10.0.0.1]>

>
In the meantime I'm going to spend today's 15 minutes enjoying a 
latte and doing no coding at all for anyone while I watch the 
boulevardier....

And reading Edgar Allen Poe?   ;-)

sims


European Rev Conference   http://TechieTours.com/Rev

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Aug 15 13:05:36 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 12:05:36 -0500
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <BD44DAE2.74C6%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BD44DAE2.74C6%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <411F97E0.2050207@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/15/04 12:18 PM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:

> Hi Erik,
> 
> 
>>Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:34:37 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: Erik Hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com>
>>Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
>>
>>mci & mciSendString()
>>mci MIDI in 3 steps
>>
>>these use MIDI files. is there a Windows way
>>to convert xTalk commands like
>>play "60q 62e 64e" -- to MIDI files?
> 
> 
> Not sure. I know "ShakoBox" works in Rev on the Mac. Did you try it?
> 
> Jacque can speak to this better.

It works on Mac by sending Apple Events to a tiny custom translation 
app. But it doesn't work on Windows because it is AppleScript, and Eric 
is looking for a Windows solution.

The user contributions page on Rev's web site has a stack by UDI called 
"makeSMF v1.3" which may work. I haven't worked with it much, but if I 
remember right it needs to write a file to disk. I don't know if that 
would be fast enough for "live" music creation but it is worth a look.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 15 13:08:17 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:08:17 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <411F7E6F.90608@fourthworld.com>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
	<CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411E4C2F.2090001@hyperactivesw.com>
	<518DE46E-EE71-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411EFFEE.3070104@fourthworld.com>
	<B7D5CAAB-EE85-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411F7E6F.90608@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B3ADE7BE-EEDD-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 15, 2004, at 11:17 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Spreadsheets and iTunes are very different creatures.
>
> Therein lies the difficulty in satisfying the request:  so many 
> options,
> so little specification.

OK, fair enough. Either. Both. A flexible solution of multi-column, 
single line or multi-line data display.

> I'm not sure we're talking about the same things.  Not that what you're
> looking for is necessarily trivial, but rather on the contrary: there
> are MANY types of multi-column lists, if you observe them closely.
> There is no one-size-fits-all.
>
> Some specifics about what you're looking for would be helpful in
> providing a solution, but you've already ruled that out: you'll accept
> nothing that isn't built into the engine, and no one can build it into
> the engine until its details have been specified.

Specifically, for this upcoming project, I need single-line, resizable 
by headers, with contained checkboxes, possible progress bars, and 
small icons. Multi-line would be nice, but that is its own batch of 
headaches, I realize.

> Given the world of difference between the two I hope you'll forgive the
> confusion and, if you'll reconsider the requirement that it be fully
> engine-based we might be able to provide what you need once we
> understand it.

Yes, it IS confusing. I don't require an engine modification 
specifically, but #670 pretty clearly identifies the nature of tool I'm 
looking for. While all higher-level languages cause developers to 
"make-do" with the collection of resources available, and design and 
build projects based on the tools which they have at hand, this 
particular feature is particularly complex to "fake" well.

A data grid, with whatever features which could be dragged out of the 
toolbar into a project would be ideal, because like all the other 
tools, it would have a nice API, and be easy to integrate into any 
project. Just another incarnation of a field would be less than 
desirable unless it was very carefully worked up. The current table 
object hardly behaves like a proper table. (e.g. tabbing past the right 
edge, cell editing, etc.)

> These are not subtle differences; data grids are inherently complex
> objects.  This is probably why OS vendors haven't bothered to make an
> API for one.

True. And no doubt the reason I really don't want to hack together a 
one-off custom version every time one is needed.

The existing tab-stopped based field, is simply not good enough. But, 
if there were some decent generic version, with whatever feature set, 
like a good high-level language developer, I'd try to design my project 
around whatever it could do.

A RunRev solution would be best, since it would be supported, etc. But 
I also have no doubt that it is possible to make something generic 
through transcript alone... I've never seen one, but that doesn't mean 
it isn't possible.

>
> So there are three options at hand:
>
> - Specify what you need and let's see if someone has what
>   you're looking for in scripted form.

A working table / data grid object, which allows column resizing and 
sorting via headers, cell editing, proper treatment of the tab and 
return keys, lockable horizontal size - with a reasonable API (addRow, 
delRow, rowClicked,cellClicked, etc.) The rest of it is bonus features, 
I guess.

>
> - Specify what you need and let's see if it could be added
>   to the engine.

#670 does a good job, though admittedly vague and broad. I didn't write 
it, but based on the signers-on, I'm not the only one who would like to 
see such a tool.

>
> - Send us a postcard from El Dorado
>   (ride, bodly ride, the shade replied...)

Yes, Mr. Poe, it could be that I "seek for Eldorado." I have a tendency 
to want high-level tools to offer the same unrestricted features as 
low-level tools, and low-level tools to offer the same productivity and 
freedom from gibberish syntax that high-level tools do. There really is 
no Eldorado, is there?  Darn. I guess with high-level languages, you 
pick the one with the best features/compromises ratio, and make it work 
from there. Doesn't mean I won't keep up the search, or trying to get 
Revolution to continue transforming in the direction of Eldorado.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 15 13:10:51 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:10:51 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <411F940E.8010407@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
	<CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411E4C2F.2090001@hyperactivesw.com>
	<518DE46E-EE71-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411F940E.8010407@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <0F35B97D-EEDE-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 15, 2004, at 12:49 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Single-line data tables such as iTunes uses are easy to make. Just 
> trap the tabKey message and insert a return character if the insertion 
> point is in the last "cell". You can sort the field by column using 
> standard "sort" syntax ("sort field 1 by item 3 of each", etc.) You 
> can resize columns by resetting tabstops. I do this routinely. You can 
> even create a "header" field that allows the user to drag out the 
> columns to the widths they want, and when they release the mouse, set 
> your data grid to the same tabstops (there are several different ways 
> to implement the HIG for this.) Or resize the grid dynamically during 
> the header drag; Rev is fast enough to do it.

Thanks, Jacque. I plan to do some experimenting with this. It would be 
nice if there were a "built-in" tool for this, but where there isn't, 
you make your own, I guess.

I'll give it a go and see if I can get credible results.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Aug 15 13:59:17 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:59:17 +0100
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading 
In-Reply-To: <20040815160006.837EC930106@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040815160006.837EC930106@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D34E145B-EEE4-11D8-A877-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

On Aug 15, 2004, at 5:00 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject: Re: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading
> 	menus Re: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading  menus
> To: Use Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <BD44EF99.3EFC%kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
> On 8/15/04 4:46 AM, "Frank Leahy" <frank at backtalk.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> That's correct -- on the Mac (not sure about Windows), disabled and
>> sub-menu items are always considered unselectable, i.e. when you
>> release on a disabled menu item or on a sub-menu item, no menu item is
>> chosen or reported.
>
> Well, that's true for disabled menu items, but not for sub-menu items 
> - so
> long as you remove the "autoarm" property. If you do that, what you 
> get back
> is the form: <menuItemName>|<subMenuItemName|<subSubMenuItemName>, so 
> in a
> menu that looks like this:
>
> Test
>     SubTest1
>         SubSubTest1
>         SubSubTest2
>     SubTest2
>
> If you pick "SubSubTest2", you get back in "menuPick":
>
>   Tets|SubTest1|SubSubTest2
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken Ray
>

Ken,

A misunderstanding of terminology -- I understood the "sub-menu item" 
to mean "SubTest1" in your example above, i.e. the menu item that 
displays the sub-menu.    A "sub-menu item" cannot be chosen, and 
therefore yields no MenuPick message, just as a disabled menu item 
cannot be selected and yields no MenuPick message.

Conversely MenuPick does get called when any menu item in a sub menu is 
chosen, as long as that menu item is not either disabled, or is itself 
a sub-menu item (i.e. causes a sub-sub-menu to appear)

-- Frank


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sun Aug 15 14:20:49 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:20:49 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading
In-Reply-To: <D34E145B-EEE4-11D8-A877-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BD44F791.6FDE%moe2@shaw.ca>

on 2004/08/15 10:59 AM, Frank Leahy at frank at backtalk.com wrote:

> On Aug 15, 2004, at 5:00 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com
> wrote:
> 
>> From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>> Subject: Re: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading
>> menus Re: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading  menus
>> To: Use Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Message-ID: <BD44EF99.3EFC%kray at sonsothunder.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="US-ASCII"
>> 
>> On 8/15/04 4:46 AM, "Frank Leahy" <frank at backtalk.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> That's correct -- on the Mac (not sure about Windows), disabled and
>>> sub-menu items are always considered unselectable, i.e. when you
>>> release on a disabled menu item or on a sub-menu item, no menu item is
>>> chosen or reported.
>> 
>> Well, that's true for disabled menu items, but not for sub-menu items
>> - so
>> long as you remove the "autoarm" property. If you do that, what you
>> get back
>> is the form: <menuItemName>|<subMenuItemName|<subSubMenuItemName>, so
>> in a
>> menu that looks like this:
>> 
>> Test
>> SubTest1
>> SubSubTest1
>> SubSubTest2
>> SubTest2
>> 
>> If you pick "SubSubTest2", you get back in "menuPick":
>> 
>> Tets|SubTest1|SubSubTest2
>> 
>> HTH,
>> 
>> Ken Ray
>> 
> 
> Ken,
> 
> A misunderstanding of terminology -- I understood the "sub-menu item"
> to mean "SubTest1" in your example above, i.e. the menu item that
> displays the sub-menu.    A "sub-menu item" cannot be chosen, and
> therefore yields no MenuPick message,

not true
put this transcript in the button script of a button with submenus and
cascade menus

on menuPick theItem
  put theItem & "  " & the menuHistory of me
end menuPick

this will show that cascade menuItems as well as menuItems can get a message
sent and intercepted ... so this handler should be able to toggle the
checkMark of any selected menuItem and cascade menuItem

> just as a disabled menu item
> cannot be selected and yields no MenuPick message.
> 
> Conversely MenuPick does get called when any menu item in a sub menu is
> chosen, as long as that menu item is not either disabled, or is itself
> a sub-menu item (i.e. causes a sub-sub-menu to appear)
> 
> -- Frank
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Aug 15 14:27:38 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:27:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <411EC81B.2050105@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408151123210.10474-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>



On Sat, 14 Aug 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> > As for some of them being 'authorities', well, remember that
> > two of them claimed that Hypercard was 'a cheap rip-off' or
> > 'knock-off' of Visual Basic...
>
> If you need to embarass 'em you can wait till they say that at a meeting
> and point out that Visual Basic was prototyped on a Mac using SuperCard
> (heard it from a Microsoft employee).

--well, actually, I already committed that faux pas... on the very first
meeting of my master's group, where the individual did indeed make that
grand, sweeping pronouncement.  For my astonished stammering to the
contrary, I was kinda blacklisted for the full two years of the program.
And Mike Swain sending the offending individuals a very, shall we say,
*pointed* email advising them of their inaccuracies probably didn't help
my social standing, either ;-)

> > and that VBA = Visual Basic Analogue...
>
> Frightening.  And sad, considering how many knowledgeable and talented
> people have trouble finding work in these tough times, while people like
> that have "anti-jobs" (in which they get paid to provide the opposite of
> useful goods and services <g>).

Yup.

Judy


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Aug 15 14:29:40 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:29:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sound in revolution nr. 666
In-Reply-To: <AC5773C6-EEA7-11D8-A69B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408151129110.10474-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Klaus,

What's your thoughts on the AIFF format?

Judy


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Aug 15 14:30:11 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:30:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sound in revolution nr. 666
In-Reply-To: <823F4AB0-EEAC-11D8-90EF-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408151129510.10474-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I think it may depend upon whether it is a compressed or an uncompressed
wav...

Judy

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Am I missing something here?  I import a WAV file into Rev then play it
> using:  play "Applause.wav"  I have no problems with doing it this way
> on Mac OS X or Win XP.


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sun Aug 15 14:51:07 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:51:07 -0700
Subject: QT in rev slower: Was Re: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs.
	other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <3C3C6EF7-EE31-11D8-915F-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<16D66E65-EC00-11D8-8D36-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<964DB1A2-ED1B-11D8-9072-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
	<7624EEC8-ED3C-11D8-B538-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>
	<3C3C6EF7-EE31-11D8-915F-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <1140E4B8-EEEC-11D8-876B-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 14, 2004, at 1:33 PM, Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:
> On 13.08.2004, at 17:21, Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> I imagine your interactive movie was using wired sprites.
>
> I did not. But maybe the tool, with which I did it, uses sprites in 
> the executable QT code, because it has this feature. CAnt say that, 
> because I dont not understand it.

If it wasn't flash then it was using Wired Sprites since that is the 
technology QT has for interactivity.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Sun Aug 15 15:11:36 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:11:36 +0200
Subject: problem with decompress()
Message-ID: <411FB568.394D4909@Club-Internet.fr>

Hi list,

Could someone be kind enough to explain why the following script :

on mouseUp
  get compress(myVar)
  put it into fld 1
  get fld 1
  put decompress(it)
end mouseUp

returns the following error :
decompress: string is not compressed data

Thanks,
JB


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Sun Aug 15 15:16:03 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:16:03 +0200
Subject: problem with decompress()
References: <411FB568.394D4909@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <411FB672.ED19FE5C@Club-Internet.fr>

OK nevermind...
I just realized it has to do with binary data...

Best,
JB


> Hi list,
>
> Could someone be kind enough to explain why the following script :
>
> on mouseUp
>   get compress(myVar)
>   put it into fld 1
>   get fld 1
>   put decompress(it)
> end mouseUp
>
> returns the following error :
> decompress: string is not compressed data
>
> Thanks,
> JB
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sun Aug 15 15:13:55 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 12:13:55 -0700
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <p05100300bd43fbab6317@[82.35.49.167]>
References: <p05100300bd43fbab6317@[82.35.49.167]>
Message-ID: <40CA4564-EEEF-11D8-876B-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 14, 2004, at 10:31 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:
> OK, I added my 5, but I couldn't remember to add an additional comment 
> to Bguzilla (it only seems possible to add an attachment like a 
> patch?!). I note tho that the comments which are there are fairly 
> 'advanced'. What about much more basic functionality like a message 
> being sent every time the user changes the contents of a cell or every 
> time the user tabs from one cell to another: similarly, how is the 
> script supposed to detect that a set of cells has been selected and 
> whether it's contiguous or not? You can see that my mind is running 
> along spreadsheet lines... maybe all this has been thought of and I've 
> missed it (it is hard for me to keep up with digests just at present), 
> but I don't want the simple stuff to be neglected.

If you want to know if a selection is contiguous or not you can use 
something like this:

function getIsFldSelContiguous pHilitedLines
	if ( (sum(pHilitedLines) / (last item of pHilitedLines - first item of 
pHilitedLines + 1)) = \
		((first item of pHilitedLines + last item of pHilitedLines) / 2)) then
		return "true"
	else
		return "false"
	end if
end getIsFldSelContiguous

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 15 15:16:06 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 12:16:06 -0700
Subject: problem with decompress()
In-Reply-To: <411FB568.394D4909@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <8E7A277E-EEEF-11D8-8EEF-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 12:11 PM, jbv wrote:

> Could someone be kind enough to explain why the following script :
>
> on mouseUp
>   get compress(myVar)
>   put it into fld 1
>   get fld 1
>   put decompress(it)
> end mouseUp



I would use put compress(myVar) into myVar2 & put decompress(myVar2) 
into myVar3

Watch out for lines of long lengths in fields. It's either 32kbts or 
64kbts lengths that mess things up when fields are used as storage 
containers.

Mark


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sun Aug 15 15:24:45 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 12:24:45 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <19c.27fbe9d6.2e50987c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD45068D.6FDF%moe2@shaw.ca>


> 
>> so Mr. Gaskin show me that RR  script can be written
>> to check and uncheck the
>> example in the  documentation !
>> i say RR has a bug here, but i dont want to
>> be to cocky about this since you people are the RR guru's
>>  and know RR inside and out
>> ... i thought this would take less than a minute of your time
>> 

> 
> This is a discussion  list, not a scripting service.

my sincere apologies for using this site to debug your software. i was
writing in to verify my findings BEFORE putting in a bugzilla that would
have wasted your (an RR persons) time if my findings were incorrect

> If you want a scripting service, Revolution  offers this for a fee.

perhaps my challenge to you was to strong, ... "show me that ..."
and directed to you. i have been reading your responses for a long time and
had admired your thoughtful frequent response

i should have just asked if someone has been able to get RR to do this, i
will be more careful in the future

> Otherwise, individual list members offer help and  guidance
> according their abilities and understanding of the
> problem but are  under no obligation to do so.
> 

very sorry for coming across as though i had an expectation of an
obligation. no such expectation was intended. this was simply a plea (and a
bit of a challenge) for help after ?days? of winding my way through how
transcript manipulates menus ... essentially your thought process since you
contributed to the creation of RR

... no charge for finding this bug in transcript and the RR documentation


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sun Aug 15 15:40:53 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 12:40:53 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <FE9DD912-EE9F-11D8-A876-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BD450A55.6FEB%moe2@shaw.ca>


> You can, using the Mac toolbox directly (i.e. not via RR), see if a
> sub-menu or disabled item has been selected by calling another
> function, MenuChoice().
> 
> -- Frank


hi Frank

thank you for your suggestion, and a good one too

unfortunately my developing stack must run on multiple platforms,
so your suggestion will only work while developing on the Mac platform.
Much appreciated

take care

moe


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Sun Aug 15 15:47:21 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:47:21 EDT
Subject: Versions of RR+ whats about?! 
Message-ID: <ac.5f883e14.2e5117c9@aol.com>

Richard:

> In the meantime I'm going to spend today's 15 minutes enjoying a  latte 
> and doing no coding at all for anyone while I watch the  boulevardier....

And about time, too!

/H
 

From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sun Aug 15 15:55:49 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:55:49 +0200
Subject: Versions of RR+ whats about?!
In-Reply-To: <411F9394.6040309@fourthworld.com>
References: <BD428067.2BEA%kevin@runrev.com>
	<C0CB950D-ED38-11D8-A3D3-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411D06BE.7000703@fourthworld.com>
	<A88CFBFA-EE30-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
	<411F9394.6040309@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1AC584D6-EEF5-11D8-8CCC-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 15.08.2004, at 18:47, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> And the original offer still stands: if someone wants to pay my bills 
> for a month or two they can have it. :)
At this time I could have payed this month, but I thought rev is the 
tool of my choice and I can do a lot with it. What an error! (It was 
the time before these terrible engine crashes in 1.0, which have cost 
me 3 big clients. And if you loose 2 years in the IT business, what 
should I tell you?). Now I dont have the money. And, Richard, when I 
will have it again, there are on the first place of muy coders list: 
Klaus, Malte Bj?rnke. But I have it mind, that you can do the iShell 
GUI in a month. I cant blieve it, but ok, whe shall see... Pls tell me 
what are the costs of your bills for a month, that I can note it down 
for later.

>> Sometimes in life everybody could/has/should think not only in time 
>> and money. I know thats very hard to understand for you americans, 
>> but there is a bit more in life than time and money...
>
> While I agree with many European perceptions about Americans, it's 
> rarely useful to consider all members of any group to have the same 
> traits (i.e., "steroetyping").  Not all Irishmen are alcoholics, some 
> Brits can indeed cook, and I've never in my life met a lazy Mexican.

... and my wife is from Colombia and she is definitly "not" a cocaine 
dealer too!
You are right stereotyping is never correct! but that was not my 
intention!
If you feel _personally_ offended: sorry!

OT: The austrian revenge is Arnold Blackcorner;))

> I am not alone here in a lifestyle that includes a signficant amount 
> of not-for-profit work.  For starters, as a matter of company policy I 
> donate 10% of my billable time to non-profit organizations, and during 
> times when I have an assistant that person is instructed to do the 
> same (Fourth World pays for their time, as it does mine).
Thanks in the name of them.

> It's open source, and fully brancheable into any form anyone likes: 
> you can do whatever you want with it at any time.
As I know: Only for HC owner which have upgraded to rev... And not open 
source in the idea of GPL. Or is the source code of the engine free to 
dl?

> With one limitation:  I don't personally have any use for it.
As you know I m a bad scripter, so I cant help with scripting to this 
list. But I m still trying to bring some ideas in, although I don't 
personally have any use of it, spending a lot of time with it.

I have some sales expierence from my former life; sold for about 10 
Millions$ (more or less the actual value) MS-DOS PC?s/year for an 
international company. Therefore sometimes, when I saw again and again 
the "strange" RR distribution policy, my memory looked back and I 
thought: I cant do nothing for the scripters, but I could do anything 
for the rev GUI, the newbies, the educational market the distribution 
policy, which could help me in the future too. Seems I should seriously 
rethink about that...

> It's called FlipsIDE, and it's being developed now in my spare time.
Thanks again in advance. I dont know if this will help me, but RR 
sure...

> In the meantime I'm going to spend today's 15 minutes enjoying a latte 
> and doing no coding at all for anyone while I watch the 
> boulevardier....
I dont have the knowlege of this "english" flavor, that I can 
understand it well, and the dictionary doesnt know what "latte or 
boulevardier" is.

Now I have actual to finish my novel and sorry, if I will answer short 
or not to following postings, because I will not have the time to read 
all that, as I did in the last weeks.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speedlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sun Aug 15 15:59:54 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:59:54 +0200
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <411EC81B.2050105@fourthworld.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408122045590.20154-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<411EC81B.2050105@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <AD19AA8C-EEF5-11D8-8CCC-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 15.08.2004, at 04:19, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> If you need to embarass 'em you can wait till they say that at a 
> meeting
> and point out that Visual Basic was prototyped on a Mac using SuperCard
> (heard it from a Microsoft employee).

Is that true?

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speedlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Sun Aug 15 15:59:21 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:59:21 EDT
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading
Message-ID: <8.54c16843.2e511a99@aol.com>

Moe:

> not true
> put this transcript in the button script of a button  with submenus and
> cascade menus
> 
> on menuPick  theItem
>   put theItem & "  " & the menuHistory of  me
> end menuPick
> 
> this will show that cascade menuItems  as well as menuItems can get a 
message
> sent and intercepted ... so this  handler should be able to toggle the
> checkMark of any selected menuItem  and cascade menuItem

'Cascade' has a specific meaning in Revolution (it  is a reserved token for a 
menuMode) and is not necessarily synonymous with  'hierarchical' (which can 
refer to pulldown menus as well). This can lead  to confusion and was one of 
the reasons for misunderstandings from your original  post.
 
/H

From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug 15 16:06:16 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:06:16 +0200
Subject: sound in revolution nr. 666
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408151129110.10474-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408151129110.10474-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <90ABD665-EEF6-11D8-A69B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

local windoo = QUOTE & "play ac xyz" & QUOTE & "on windows without 
QuickTime"
### Maybe on linux/unix, too, but i have no experience with these 
platforms...

Hi Judy,

> Klaus,
>
> What's your thoughts on the AIFF format?

In historical or cultural respect?

:-D

Well, as long as it is uncompressed (and it appears to be uncompressed
since it would be an AIFC otherwise ;-) this can also be played with
windoo...

If that's what you're after ;-)

OK, here is another short table of some other settings
that may result in a successful windoo...

Mono/Stereo: doesn't matter

Sample-depth in bit:
8
16

Sample-rate in KHZ:
11.025
22.5
44.1

Uncompressed WAV or AIF files in these formats should work with 
windoo...

But the general rule is:
test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, 
test, test, test, test,
test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, 
test, test, test, test,
test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, 
test, test, test, test,
test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test, 
test, test, test, test,
and test!

:-)

> Judy

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug 15 16:10:43 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:10:43 +0200
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <AD19AA8C-EEF5-11D8-8CCC-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408122045590.20154-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<411EC81B.2050105@fourthworld.com>
	<AD19AA8C-EEF5-11D8-8CCC-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <2FCE2BAA-EEF7-11D8-A69B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hallo Wolfgang,

> On 15.08.2004, at 04:19, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> If you need to embarass 'em you can wait till they say that at a 
>> meeting
>> and point out that Visual Basic was prototyped on a Mac using 
>> SuperCard
>> (heard it from a Microsoft employee).
>
> Is that true?

JA!!! :-)
YES!!! :-)

Cool, isn't it... ;-)

> regards
> Wolfgang M. Bereuter
>
> Trainingsmaps? -- speedlearning with Mindmaps!
> INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
> Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
> ...............................
> http://www.internettrainer.com
> wmb at internettrainer.com
> ...............................
> Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Sun Aug 15 16:24:03 2004
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:24:03 +0200
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
Message-ID: <411FC663.10609@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

In June our university hosted an international conference about 
E-Learning. The new buzzword coming up in almost all plenary 
presentations was "blended learning", meaning a mix of online and 
offline learning, but still with widely varying accentuations concerning 
the role of the offline part.

Additionally, 23 projects developed at our institution were presented in 
booths during the duration of the two-day conference.

I think the most important project going on here is "Winfoline", 
developed by my colleague Prof. Winand. It can be called "important" as 
it has been accepted as a learning platform by a couple of other 
universities and because it get parts of the funding from our federal 
government.

You can look up information about it under

<http://winfoline.wirtschaft.uni-kassel.de>
<http://www.winfoline.de>

This project also favors some "blended learning"; there are English 
parts of the websites.-

Although I sometimes cooperate very closely with Prof. Winand - having 
been jointly responsible for theses dealing with aspects of information 
sciences and educational technology and also conducting oral 
examinations - I have not yet been able to convince him of the benefits 
of XTalk languages.-

Our own booth presentation focused on our project "Language Suite" 
developed with Metacard, but offered samples of other educational 
materials. A short description of the "Language Suite" project is to be 
found - still in German - on page "Projects: Language Suite" of my 
website <http://www.sanke.org>, English version. The stacks themselves 
will be publicly available soon as demo versions.

The most frequently asked questions from participants of the conference 
at our booth was "Where is the browser?" and the feedback that 
apparently impressed them most was

- our indication that there was no need for a HTML browser, and
- demonstrating the ability of Metacard/Revolution to start programs 
online without browser assistance and being connected to five different 
websites simultaneously (RevNet, California; Metacard-Site, Colorado; 
Himalayan Academy, Hawaii; Tactile Media, California; FTP-Server Uni 
Kassel, Germany).

We also tried to convince them of the higher degree of "interactivity" 
possible with XTalk languages as compared to browser-based languages.

I addressed such questions some years ago in an article about

"Interaktives Lernen im Internet? -
Fragen zum Design und zur m?glichen Nutzung von Lernmaterialien ?ber das 
"World Wide Web", 1997,

which at some points raises issues similar to those in Richard Gaskin's 
"Beyond the Browser". The German version of my article is available on 
page "Texte", website <http://www.sanke.org>, German version.-

Interestingly, one of the other booth presentations was about about a 
project originally developed with Metacard ("Simulation 
Handelsvorteile", page "Student Samples" of my website), but 
re-programmed with Flash. The student had developed this simulation 
using Metacard in a few days. He attracted the attention of a colleague 
from "Computational Mathematics" who however persuaded him to re-program 
it with Flash as a "real" programming tool by offering him a one-year 
and well-paid contract as a research assistant. It took the student two 
months - so he told me - to achieve with Flash (he had to learn Flash 
from scratch) what he alrady had achieved using Metacard; the results of 
his efforts look very much identical, the biggest difference being that 
resizing - and adapting the simulation to screen size - is much easier 
in Flash than with Revolution/Metacard.


-- Wilhelm Sanke, Prof.
   University Media Center
   University of Kassel, Germany
  <http://www.sanke.org>






From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Aug 15 16:41:05 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:41:05 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <0F35B97D-EEDE-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <6D97CD94-EEFB-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Check out this link it myth help.
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm
Hershel
On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 01:10 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 15, 2004, at 12:49 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> Single-line data tables such as iTunes uses are easy to make. Just 
>> trap the tabKey message and insert a return character if the 
>> insertion point is in the last "cell". You can sort the field by 
>> column using standard "sort" syntax ("sort field 1 by item 3 of 
>> each", etc.) You can resize columns by resetting tabstops. I do this 
>> routinely. You can even create a "header" field that allows the user 
>> to drag out the columns to the widths they want, and when they 
>> release the mouse, set your data grid to the same tabstops (there are 
>> several different ways to implement the HIG for this.) Or resize the 
>> grid dynamically during the header drag; Rev is fast enough to do it.
>
> Thanks, Jacque. I plan to do some experimenting with this. It would be 
> nice if there were a "built-in" tool for this, but where there isn't, 
> you make your own, I guess.
>
> I'll give it a go and see if I can get credible results.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 15 17:03:23 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:03:23 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <6D97CD94-EEFB-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <6D97CD94-EEFB-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <8B26A5F8-EEFE-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 15, 2004, at 4:41 PM, Hershel Fisch wrote:

> Check out this link it myth help.
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm

Thanks, yes I'm very aware of this excellent tool. I'm also aware that 
the headers functionality it provides are the same ones used in the 
application browser. Which is moderately successful at *some* of the 
features I'm looking to accomplish.

But, even Chipp, who wrote those, says -
> I don't use the Rev table object, ...

I'm looking at the tables issue, and playing with some of the 
possibilities. We'll see. Maybe I can come up with an acceptable 
compromise.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Aug 15 17:07:10 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:07:10 +0100
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading
In-Reply-To: <20040815193019.F2C13930128@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040815193019.F2C13930128@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <12D92906-EEFF-11D8-A877-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

On Aug 15, 2004, at 8:30 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

>> Ken,
>>
>> A misunderstanding of terminology -- I understood the "sub-menu item"
>> to mean "SubTest1" in your example above, i.e. the menu item that
>> displays the sub-menu.    A "sub-menu item" cannot be chosen, and
>> therefore yields no MenuPick message,
>
> not true
> put this transcript in the button script of a button with submenus and
> cascade menus
>
> on menuPick theItem
>   put theItem & "  " & the menuHistory of me
> end menuPick
>
> this will show that cascade menuItems as well as menuItems can get a 
> message
> sent and intercepted ... so this handler should be able to toggle the
> checkMark of any selected menuItem and cascade menuItem
>

Ok, I guess I have to be even more explicit :-)

On the Mac, when a menu is drawn using the Mac's native menu or popup 
menu control (as opposed to the non-native menus that are available in 
Transcript), sub-menu items (i.e. menu items that causes a sub-menu to 
appear) will not generate a MenuPick message.

-- Frank


From kkaufman at snet.net  Sun Aug 15 17:08:45 2004
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:08:45 -0400
Subject: MIDI tools
In-Reply-To: <20040813200702.DD02E930103@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040813200702.DD02E930103@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4B5F2F62-EEFF-11D8-80FF-0003937052EC@snet.net>


On Aug 13, 2004, at 4:07 PM, K Norris wrote:

> What about MIDI tools, specifically, can we play notes live through an
> onscreen keyboard with no latency.
>
> To get an idea of what I mean, for Mac folks who are on the SuperCard 
> list
> (Yahoo! groups), go to the files area Miscellaneous folder and D/L my 
> latest
> post there named 'Instrument2', and checkout how the keyboard works.
>
> By permission of the owner (Jon Adams), it uses Nigel Redmond's 
> QuickNotes
> external. Would it work with Rev?  How could it be implemented
> cross-platform (the thing I'm interested in for these experiments)? I
> wouldn't have a clue how to transform it into a Windows-useable DLL.
>

As  you indicate, the cross-platform issue is the challenge.  For the 
stack MIDI Builder, I use an invisible QT player set to a temporary 
MIDI file for each piano key clicked. This enables cross-platform 
functionality but does involve a latency due to the overhead of 
initializing a MIDI file for each heard note. As it stands, each 
separate note's MIDI file is created on-the-fly.  This enables the 
current MIDI track's selected MIDI instrument to be heard exactly as it 
will be recorded to the MIDI file.  This system would of course be 
inappropriate for real-time data entry; it works only in step-entry 
mode.  I personally am not familiar with the hooks to the 
"MIDI-playing" parts of the OS, Mac or Windows. In the case of MIDI 
Builder, QT handles it for me.
In reference to your question above, I'm guessing that you would have 
to have an external that would interact with QT for Windows, or 
alternately one that might work through the underlying mechanism used 
by the Windows Media Player to play MIDI files.

-Kurt
=====================

We'll be the country's toast
And rule from coast to coast,
Without legality but that's
just a technicality!

Ira Gershwin,
"Let 'em Eat Cake", 1933


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sun Aug 15 17:33:09 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:33:09 +0200
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <2FCE2BAA-EEF7-11D8-A69B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408122045590.20154-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<411EC81B.2050105@fourthworld.com>
	<AD19AA8C-EEF5-11D8-8CCC-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
	<2FCE2BAA-EEF7-11D8-A69B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <B4210B66-EF02-11D8-8CCC-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 15.08.2004, at 22:10, Klaus Major wrote:

>> Is that true?
>
> JA!!! :-)
> YES!!! :-)
>
> Cool, isn't it... ;-)

unpackbar!
untakable;)

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speedlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug 15 18:09:17 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:09:17 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading
In-Reply-To: <12D92906-EEFF-11D8-A877-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <20040815193019.F2C13930128@mail.runrev.com>
	<12D92906-EEFF-11D8-A877-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <411FDF0D.8010701@fourthworld.com>

Frank Leahy wrote:
> On the Mac, when a menu is drawn using the Mac's native menu or popup 
> menu control (as opposed to the non-native menus that are available in 
> Transcript), sub-menu items (i.e. menu items that causes a sub-menu to 
> appear) will not generate a MenuPick message.

There must be something else at play there.  While I can't vouch for 
popups, submenus in the menubar continue to send menuPick messages to my 
menus as they have for years.  HyperRESEARCH is dependent on this for a 
number of its features, and if it wasn't working I'd hear about if from 
several hundred people. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 15 18:09:57 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:09:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Compilers for external dll
In-Reply-To: <20040815193019.F2C13930128@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040815220957.48931.qmail@web40507.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Developers,

Before downloading this 38 mb installer,
Could i compile, with minimal changes, the
external dll for RunRev using the free Microsoft 
Visual C++ toolkit 2003?

<http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=272BE09D-40BB-49FD-9CB0-4BFA122FA91B&displaylang=en>

_http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=272BE09D-40BB-49FD-9CB0-4BFA122FA91B&displaylang=en_

Could open source compilers like LCC, Bloodshed, etc
compile this external without problems?

<http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32/>
_http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32/_

Thanks in advance.

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug 15 18:11:00 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:11:00 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <AD19AA8C-EEF5-11D8-8CCC-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408122045590.20154-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<411EC81B.2050105@fourthworld.com>
	<AD19AA8C-EEF5-11D8-8CCC-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <411FDF74.3080808@fourthworld.com>

Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:

> 
> On 15.08.2004, at 04:19, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> If you need to embarass 'em you can wait till they say that at a meeting
>> and point out that Visual Basic was prototyped on a Mac using SuperCard
>> (heard it from a Microsoft employee).
>
> Is that true?

I heard it from a Microsoft employee.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 15 18:14:24 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:14:24 -0400
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading
In-Reply-To: <411FDF0D.8010701@fourthworld.com>
References: <20040815193019.F2C13930128@mail.runrev.com>
	<12D92906-EEFF-11D8-A877-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<411FDF0D.8010701@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <772886E9-EF08-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 15, 2004, at 6:09 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>
>> On the Mac, when a menu is drawn using the Mac's native menu or popup 
>> menu control (as opposed to the non-native menus that are available 
>> in Transcript), sub-menu items (i.e. menu items that causes a 
>> sub-menu to appear) will not generate a MenuPick message.
>
> There must be something else at play there.  While I can't vouch for 
> popups, submenus in the menubar continue to send menuPick messages to 
> my menus as they have for years.  HyperRESEARCH is dependent on this 
> for a number of its features, and if it wasn't working I'd hear about 
> if from several hundred people. :)

It seems we are all having a difficulty communicating. Here is a 
thesaurus entry for the issue at hand -

1a) The PARENT of the submenu item does not generate an event when a 
mouseup occurs on it.

1b) The menuItem which has a submenu, does not generate an event when a 
mouseup occurs on it.

1c) The item which you put your mouse on, from which the submenu 
appears, does not generate an event when a mouseup occurs on it.

1d) The source item for the submenu, does not generate an event when a 
mouseup occurs on it.

2) The submenu items themselves, DO generate events when a mouseup 
occurs on it.

Everyone agrees on this, I think.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug 15 18:16:36 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:16:36 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <BD45068D.6FDF%moe2@shaw.ca>
References: <BD45068D.6FDF%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <411FE0C4.4040908@fourthworld.com>

moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:
> my sincere apologies for using this site to debug your software. i was
> writing in to verify my findings BEFORE putting in a bugzilla that would
> have wasted your (an RR persons) time if my findings were incorrect

I haven't seen a post from a RunRev employee yet.  I work for Fourth 
World and Jacque works for HyperActive Software.

> very sorry for coming across as though i had an expectation of an
> obligation. no such expectation was intended. this was simply a plea (and a
> bit of a challenge) for help after ?days? of winding my way through how
> transcript manipulates menus ... essentially your thought process since you
> contributed to the creation of RR
> 
> ... no charge for finding this bug in transcript and the RR documentation

If you'll kindly post your note to Bugzilla with the fix Scott Kinder 
posted here yesterday, chances are good that Monte will update the docs 
in time for the v2.5 release.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug 15 18:20:42 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:20:42 -0700
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <B3ADE7BE-EEDD-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
	<CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411E4C2F.2090001@hyperactivesw.com>
	<518DE46E-EE71-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411EFFEE.3070104@fourthworld.com>
	<B7D5CAAB-EE85-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411F7E6F.90608@fourthworld.com>
	<B3ADE7BE-EEDD-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411FE1BA.3080001@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:
>> So there are three options at hand:
>>
>> - Specify what you need and let's see if someone has what
>>   you're looking for in scripted form.
> 
> A working table / data grid object, which allows column resizing and 
> sorting via headers, cell editing, proper treatment of the tab and 
> return keys, lockable horizontal size - with a reasonable API (addRow, 
> delRow, rowClicked,cellClicked, etc.) The rest of it is bonus features, 
> I guess.
> 
>>
>> - Specify what you need and let's see if it could be added
>>   to the engine.
> 
> #670 does a good job, though admittedly vague and broad. I didn't write 
> it, but based on the signers-on, I'm not the only one who would like to 
> see such a tool.

While #670 describes only a limited implementation and still has a good 
many necessary properties undefined, it's a fair start and got my 5 votes.

There are more complete specs posted previously to the improve-rev list 
-- Ken, do you have those?  Should they be posted to #670 or would that 
broaden the scope of that requst too much?

>> - Send us a postcard from El Dorado
>>   (ride, bodly ride, the shade replied...)
> 
> Yes, Mr. Poe, it could be that I "seek for Eldorado." I have a tendency 
> to want high-level tools to offer the same unrestricted features as 
> low-level tools, and low-level tools to offer the same productivity and 
> freedom from gibberish syntax that high-level tools do. There really is 
> no Eldorado, is there?  Darn. I guess with high-level languages, you 
> pick the one with the best features/compromises ratio, and make it work 
> from there. Doesn't mean I won't keep up the search, or trying to get 
> Revolution to continue transforming in the direction of Eldorado.

Amen to that, brother.  Like an old friend of mine used to say, "The 
problem with setting your sights too low is that you're likely to reach 
them."

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From katir at hindu.org  Sun Aug 15 18:25:02 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 12:25:02 -1000
Subject: Spell checkers
Message-ID: <F36C19D2-EF09-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

I really need a spell check with a user editable dictionary. or a 
separate User's dictionary. Before I dive into using Hugh Seniors 
stack, which is dated 1999... I was wondering if anyone had done one 
more recently.
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Aug 15 18:25:58 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:25:58 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408151123210.10474-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408151123210.10474-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <411FE2F6.8010901@fourthworld.com>

Judy Perry wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Aug 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>>>As for some of them being 'authorities', well, remember that
>>>two of them claimed that Hypercard was 'a cheap rip-off' or
>>>'knock-off' of Visual Basic...
>>
>>If you need to embarass 'em you can wait till they say that at a meeting
>>and point out that Visual Basic was prototyped on a Mac using SuperCard
>>(heard it from a Microsoft employee).
> 
> --well, actually, I already committed that faux pas... on the very first
> meeting of my master's group, where the individual did indeed make that
> grand, sweeping pronouncement.  For my astonished stammering to the
> contrary, I was kinda blacklisted for the full two years of the program.
> And Mike Swain sending the offending individuals a very, shall we say,
> *pointed* email advising them of their inaccuracies probably didn't help
> my social standing, either ;-)

Hmmmm... if that passes for rational process I think there are positions 
open in the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy for 
minds like that:

<http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040815/ap_on_sc/bush_scientists_4>

;)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Aug 15 18:32:47 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 00:32:47 +0200
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <411FDF74.3080808@fourthworld.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408122045590.20154-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<411EC81B.2050105@fourthworld.com>
	<AD19AA8C-EEF5-11D8-8CCC-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
	<411FDF74.3080808@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <08CB284E-EF0B-11D8-B530-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Richard and All,

I heard exactly the same, including the Visual Interdev framework...

Best,

Le 16 ao?t 04, ? 00:11, Richard Gaskin a ?crit :

> Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:
>
>> On 15.08.2004, at 04:19, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>> If you need to embarass 'em you can wait till they say that at a 
>>> meeting
>>> and point out that Visual Basic was prototyped on a Mac using 
>>> SuperCard
>>> (heard it from a Microsoft employee).
>>
>> Is that true?
>
> I heard it from a Microsoft employee.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
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"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sun Aug 15 18:23:38 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:23:38 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading
In-Reply-To: <D624DFEF-EEC3-11D8-9A6F-000A956863E2@bc.edu>
Message-ID: <BD453075.6FF4%moe2@shaw.ca>


> There is an issue with cascading menus and the menuHistory property:

ah, someone else has a similar inability to use cascade menuItems as i have,
maybe my brain has not gone totally soft yet! :-)

> 
> From the Rev docs:
> 
> Note:  The effect of the menuHistory property in cascading menus is
> ambiguous. Avoid setting or relying on the menuHistory of a cascading
> menu.
> 
> This is ugly and stupid, but works:

nothing is ugle and never stupid THAT WORKS

as a teacher for more than two decades i never thought that any question to
me was stupid. if the person had the energy and time to ask, then it was
valid and they deserved my time and the best answer i could give ... along
with the question "did i you get your answer?"

> 
> on menuPick pWhich
> 
>   repeat with i = 1 to the number of menuitems of btn "help"
>     put menuitem i of btn "help" & return after helpmenuitems
>   end repeat
>   set the itemDel to "|"
>   get lineOffset(item 2 of pWhich,helpmenuitems)
>   if char 1 to 2 of menuitem it of btn "help" = "!c" then
>     delete char 1 to 2 of menuitem it of btn "help"
>   else
>   put "!c" before menuitem it of btn "help"
>   end if
>   .
>   .
>   .
> This allows multiple checkmarks in the same submenu, so if you did not
> want that, some additional code would be required.

there is an concept here that you wrote that i have not thought of ... i
will incorporate your thoughts into my code ... my excitment has been
rejuvinated ... this will take some time, but when i am done i will post
what i have if it works

your comments and suggestions are very much appreciated Scott
and i think what you have written will be of great help, THANK YOU

this is just what i needed to see myself throught the RR documentation maze.
i should be careful here not to offend anyone ... the RR documentation (in
the application) that is there, is excellent

moe

> 
> Scott
> 


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sun Aug 15 18:31:14 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:31:14 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <411F8204.1090700@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BD453242.7003%moe2@shaw.ca>


>> i was hoping that Ms. Landman Gay would code this for me or any one of the
>> other creators of RR.
>>
>> moe
> 
> That Jacque generously gives thousands of dollars' worth of her
> consulting time here for free is a noble thing.  To expect or demand
> that she work for free is not.

Mr. Gaskin sorry to have upset you. a "hope" is hardly a demand

in the last two decades i have given thousands of hours to helping hundreds
of others ... it all comes back someday. as you see from the thread Scott
has kindly pointed me in another direction (hopefully the right one)

moe


From moe2 at shaw.ca  Sun Aug 15 18:52:44 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:52:44 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <411F8204.1090700@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BD45374B.7004%moe2@shaw.ca>


>> moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:
>>
>> ALL of the stack that i have written have special menus. some menuItems are
>> checked when that window is active (like the tool palette in RR) OR for
>> example the user has to chose a parameter ... the choice is reflected in a
>> checkmark before the cascaded menu chosen

> on 2004/08/15 8:32 AM, Richard Gaskin at ambassador at fourthworld.com wrote:
>
> Ah, this is a much clearer explanation.  It seems many here had the
> impression that when you wrote that you wanted a checkmark next to a
> cascading menu that you wanted a checkmark next to a cascading menu.
> 
> It's now clear that what you really want is a checkmark next to menu
> ITEMS in a cascading menu, which is of course common and is easy to do
> in Rev.
> 

you are correct ... to be able to check and uncheck menuItems in a cascading
menu (also, that these cascade menuItems are in a button with other
menuItems)

as for "easy to do in Rev."  ... this i have yet to see!
so far i have not been able to do this after extensively memorizing your RR
documentation ... which is excellent to the point that it goes

i will be back when i made another effort to solve this

i will keep in mind that the "man at the top" says this is "common" (meaning
done successfully & often) and easy (meaning he can do it) ... that is
enough for me to continue to enjoy and discover :-)

your encouragement is appreciated ... it is likely that i will 'continue' to
purchase your product.  i hope you will enjoy your working holiday in Malta

moe



From kkaufman at snet.net  Sun Aug 15 19:09:06 2004
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:09:06 -0400
Subject: sound in revolution nr. 666
Message-ID: <1B300A1E-EF10-11D8-A50F-0003937052EC@snet.net>

Ah, the devil's trill!
:-)


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Aug 15 19:29:06 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:29:06 -0700
Subject: Compilers for external dll
In-Reply-To: <20040815220957.48931.qmail@web40507.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040815220957.48931.qmail@web40507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <19324678505.20040815162906@ahsoftware.net>

Alejandro-

Sunday, August 15, 2004, 3:09:57 PM, you wrote:

AT> Could i compile, with minimal changes, the
AT> external dll for RunRev using the free Microsoft 
AT> Visual C++ toolkit 2003?

I haven't tried this one, but I don't see why it shouldn't work. You
need to be able to produce Microsoft-compatible libraries, and if MS's
own compilers can't do that then we're all in trouble. Shouldn't take
any changes to the library source. I used MSVC 6.0 and haven't tried
the .net stuff yet, but it should work.

AT> Could open source compilers like LCC, Bloodshed, etc
AT> compile this external without problems?

I tried a couple of open source compilers and had trouble coercing
them into creating truly compatible libraries. I haven't tried lcc or
bloodshed - if you want to try them out, I'm quite curious as to
whether or not they would work. The compilers that I know for sure
won't work are the ones from Borland and Digital Mars.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From katir at hindu.org  Sun Aug 15 19:30:44 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:30:44 -1000
Subject: Spell checkers
In-Reply-To: <F36C19D2-EF09-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <F36C19D2-EF09-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <20C8272D-EF13-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

I would add, that while Hugh's stack is functional, it need a few more 
features: what is needed is not only identify that a given word does 
not exist in the main or user dictionary, but... also

a) give the user a list of choices beginning with the same initial 
letter(s)
b) let him choose one of those and click on one from the choice list
c) allow for the option to enter the word correctly spelled.
c) fix the mis-spelled word in the original text field by clicking 
"replace all"

I think I could probably get my head around doing this myself using 
Hugh's stacks as a starting point, but didn't want to go there yet if 
someone else had already done this.

alternatively we could ask Mac users to get Cassidy and Green excellent 
"SpellCatcher"  but then I don't have control over the user dictionary 
and don't know of a comparable system wide option like that on Windows 
machines... So I may have to roll my own chapati here.

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org

On Aug 15, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> I really need a spell check with a user editable dictionary. or a 
> separate User's dictionary. Before I dive into using Hugh Seniors 
> stack, which is dated 1999... I was wondering if anyone had done one 
> more recently.
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
> Himalayan Academy Publications
> at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
> katir at hindu.org
>
> www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
> www.HinduismToday.com
> www.Gurudeva.org
> www.Hindu.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Aug 15 19:51:14 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:51:14 -0400
Subject: printing statatments
Message-ID: <FE47FCF3-EF15-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi all
I need to print statements on a monthly basis, how do I set this up ?
Thanks Hershel


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug 15 20:22:43 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:22:43 -0500
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading
In-Reply-To: <772886E9-EF08-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD456883.3F44%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/15/04 5:14 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

 
> 1a) The PARENT of the submenu item does not generate an event when a
> mouseup occurs on it.
> 
> 1b) The menuItem which has a submenu, does not generate an event when a
> mouseup occurs on it.
> 
> 1c) The item which you put your mouse on, from which the submenu
> appears, does not generate an event when a mouseup occurs on it.
> 
> 1d) The source item for the submenu, does not generate an event when a
> mouseup occurs on it.


Troy, can you be a bit clearer? I don't think I've got it yet...

;-)

"First thou shalt take out the holy pin, then shalt thou count to three, no
more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of
the counting shall be three. Four thou shalt not count, nor shalt thou count
to two, excepting that thou shalt then proceed to three. Five is right out!
Once the number three, being the third number be reached, is spoken, then
lobbest thou thy holy hand grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being
naughty in my sight?shalt snuff it.

Amen."

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 15 20:24:23 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:24:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Compilers for external dll
In-Reply-To: <20040815222228.8F0A79300D6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040816002423.99668.qmail@web40511.mail.yahoo.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

>I haven't tried this one, but I don't see why it 
>shouldn't work. You
>need to be able to produce Microsoft-compatible 
>libraries, and if MS's
>own compilers can't do that then we're all in 
>trouble. Shouldn't take any changes to the library 
>source. I used MSVC 6.0 and haven't tried
>the .net stuff yet, but it should work.

Speaking of Microsoft it's difficult to be sure.
In the name of the OS security they could change
anything and everything for the sake of software 
welfare.

I'll visit their forums to know more about this
compiler and possible user's problems.

>I tried a couple of open source compilers and had
>trouble coercing them into creating truly compatible
>libraries. I haven't tried lcc or bloodshed - if you
>want to try them out, I'm quite curious as to
>whether or not they would work. The compilers that I 
>know for sure won't work are the ones from Borland 
>and Digital Mars.

"coercing"... interesting word indeed.
How many weeks or days would this take? :-((

I'll really like that a Pascal Master programmer 
created a tutorial to create dll's for RR/MC 
with Pascal.

Knowledge about how to pass C strings, 
strings terminated in nulls, that is the
unlocking piece for this Pascal dll.

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From stephenmcnutt at mac.com  Sun Aug 15 20:31:58 2004
From: stephenmcnutt at mac.com (Stephen McNutt)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:31:58 -0400
Subject: Stand-Alone Sorrow
Message-ID: <AEDAA380-EF1B-11D8-B3D2-000A95DDD0EA@mac.com>

I'm having trouble with stand-alone builds of my application.  My app 
runs just fine within the Revolution development environment.  I'm 
using an iMac with the latest system software.

Problem A:   When I build a Windows stand-alone, it runs just fine 
within Virtual PC 6.1 on my iMac.  When I stick it on my flash drive 
and take it to a PC, I get generic icons (not the custom one I built 
with IconFactory--which shows up just fine within Virtual PC) and the 
app won't open.  I get an error message that says something about 
initialization failing and that the error was 8, 0.

Problem B:  When I build a Mac OS X stand-alone, the program opens but 
doesn't function.  I believe I've determined that it hasn't found the 
data files it access upon startup to get saved variable values.  I 
wrote the following code to get it to access the data files, and this 
code was working until a couple weeks ago:

     if the environment is not "development" then
       if the platform is "MacOS" then --Sets the default folder to the 
correct folder within a Mac OSX bundle (package).
         put defaultFolder into ldefaultFolder
         put "/CQ.app/Contents/MacOS/" after lDefaultFolder
         set the defaultFolder to lDefaultFolder
       end if
     end if

During development, the data files are inside a folder, which itself is 
in the same folder as the application.

Anybody got any insight into what appears to be two separate problems?

Thanks,
Steve McNutt


From paul at psystems.com.au  Sun Aug 15 21:43:18 2004
From: paul at psystems.com.au (Paul)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:43:18 +1000
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
Message-ID: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>

Dear list,
As a complete programming newbie, first I should say, that I'm glad to 
be in a community that actually welcomes us newbies, even try to attract 
us, thanks!!!.
I haven't bought a Rev license yet as I'm not (100%) sure the 
application I'm planning is possible in Revolution, so I have a few 
questions that I hope someone will help with!!!
The company I'm looking to design the application for, is a vertically 
integrated cattle company, meaning they have breeding properties, 
feedlots and an abattoir (slaughterhouse)

Requirements

1.What I'm hoping to do is build a system where each of the breeding 
properties can record enter cattle weight (and other) details,and have 
the application work out an individual's daily weight gain and forecast 
future weights.

Question: These records would typically be over 5000 animals with 
possibly 20 to 30 records each. Would I use a SQL database, XML, Arrays, 
or cards to store the data? (sorry, I've still a lot to learn, 
obviously!!!)

2.This info needs to be accessable over the web by the feedlot, so that 
the manager can forecast his feed requirements well in advance of the 
cattle arriving, similarly the slaughterhouse needs access so they can 
'forward sell' the resulting meat. They would also be inputting weight 
and carcass and price data for feedback to the breeders. (who also need 
access)

3. Web access can be flaky in the more remote areas, so I don't want a 
typical 'web application', rather something more along the lines of the 
excellent GoRevnet. That is, I would need the program to be able to 
operate as a local application, then by clicking a button, connect to a 
server, synchronise with the database, and upload 'new' information and 
download 'new' information, automatically

4. The info would need to be segregated by password so that indiviual 
breeders would only have access to their own info, but head office would 
have access to everything. Similarly the feedlot could access the 
breeder records but not slaughterhouse records.

5. It would also need some fairly flexible reporting functionality

I know the first thing ppl will say is to 'try something less 
complicated first and work up to a project like this', which is what I 
will do, but although I think this can be done in Rev, I don't want to 
buy a license, without knowing that it can eventually done.
Thanks in advance
Paul

From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 15 22:22:55 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:22:55 -0400
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
Message-ID: <2F0D61E8-EF2B-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 15, 2004, at 9:43 PM, Paul wrote:

> I know the first thing ppl will say is to 'try something less 
> complicated first and work up to a project like this', which is what I 
> will do, but although I think this can be done in Rev, I don't want to 
> buy a license, without knowing that it can eventually done.

Paul, I DO have a license, in fact several. And while I'm frequently 
seen as a verbal critic who picks apart some of the finer details of 
Revolution on this list, that it not to say that I don't think it is a 
remarkable tool, because it is - and that is why I own several licenses 
for my company.  ;-)

Everything you mentioned in your project scope sounds like Rev would be 
the ideal tool to build your project in. Networked multi-user tools 
have their own set of needs and considerations, but as you've noted 
(the GoRevNet example) Revolution is very adept at them. Revolution is 
also particularly "newbie friendly" as you've also noted. I don't see 
anything in your project details which would make me hesitate to 
suggest that Rev is ideally suited to your tasks - especially after 
getting your feet wet with a couple of smaller projects.

Feel free to post any questions to this list. There are a lot of great 
people here who can always help out as you go.

Good luck with it.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Aug 15 22:53:10 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:53:10 -0700
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <2F0D61E8-EF2B-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<2F0D61E8-EF2B-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <68D3C1DB-EF2F-11D8-91F5-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Paul....

I agree with Troy. I'm building two fairly large-scale apps right now, 
both of which have many requirements that are similar to yours.

The one area you'll find most difficult with out-of-the-box Rev is 
reporting. But there is at least one third-party reporting tool on the 
verge of release and I know another developer (part of one of the teams 
I'm working with) who does miracles with reports and may have some 
tools to release at some point as well.

So I would join Troy in encouraging you to go for it. You won't find a 
more productive tool than Rev, IMNSHO, for an app such as the one you 
describe.


On Aug 15, 2004, at 7:22 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 15, 2004, at 9:43 PM, Paul wrote:
>
>> I know the first thing ppl will say is to 'try something less 
>> complicated first and work up to a project like this', which is what 
>> I will do, but although I think this can be done in Rev, I don't want 
>> to buy a license, without knowing that it can eventually done.
>
> Paul, I DO have a license, in fact several. And while I'm frequently 
> seen as a verbal critic who picks apart some of the finer details of 
> Revolution on this list, that it not to say that I don't think it is a 
> remarkable tool, because it is - and that is why I own several 
> licenses for my company.  ;-)
>
> Everything you mentioned in your project scope sounds like Rev would 
> be the ideal tool to build your project in. Networked multi-user tools 
> have their own set of needs and considerations, but as you've noted 
> (the GoRevNet example) Revolution is very adept at them. Revolution is 
> also particularly "newbie friendly" as you've also noted. I don't see 
> anything in your project details which would make me hesitate to 
> suggest that Rev is ideally suited to your tasks - especially after 
> getting your feet wet with a couple of smaller projects.
>
> Feel free to post any questions to this list. There are a lot of great 
> people here who can always help out as you go.
>
> Good luck with it.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Aug 15 22:58:48 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:58:48 +1000
Subject: How to detect which files need an update
In-Reply-To: <9E8FEE18-EE0C-11D8-8245-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
References: <9E8FEE18-EE0C-11D8-8245-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <31DE0FE3-EF30-11D8-A110-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I give each stack a custom property called "versionNum" or something 
like that. When I upload the new stacks to the FTP server, I rename 
them in a specific format e.g. StackName113.rev.gz would be a 
compressed copy of StackName.rev with a version number of 1.1.3
Then I have a utility on the remote computers that check the files on 
the FTP server, see if any of them have a version number later than the 
ones if the "versionNum" custom property and of so, download, 
uncompress & install them.
I don't rely on dates & times at all.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 15 Aug 2004, at 2:13 am, Ton Cardona wrote:

> One program of mine is based on compressed files which the user 
> downloads from an FTP to his hard disk. Those files are frequently 
> updated (legal stuff).
>
> Although it is easy to detect the date of files in the FTP, I am 
> unable to detect whether the files in the hard disk do need an update 
> by comparing their dates to the dates of those in the FTP.
>
> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>
> Ton Cardona


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Sun Aug 15 23:12:04 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:12:04 -0400
Subject: Report Tools coming
In-Reply-To: <68D3C1DB-EF2F-11D8-91F5-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BD459E44.2679%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>


How about some more info? Any testers needed?

On 8/15/04 10:53 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> The one area you'll find most difficult with out-of-the-box Rev is
> reporting. But there is at least one third-party reporting tool on the
> verge of release and I know another developer (part of one of the teams
> I'm working with) who does miracles with reports and may have some
> tools to release at some point as well.





From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Aug 15 23:27:34 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:27:34 +1000
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
Message-ID: <36BB1392-EF34-11D8-A110-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Paul,

> 1.What I'm hoping to do is build a system where each of the breeding 
> properties can record enter cattle weight (and other) details,and have 
> the application work out an individual's daily weight gain and 
> forecast future weights.
>
> Question: These records would typically be over 5000 animals with 
> possibly 20 to 30 records each. Would I use a SQL database, XML, 
> Arrays, or cards to store the data? (sorry, I've still a lot to learn, 
> obviously!!!)
I would use one card per breeding property with all the data for that 
property in a tab-delimited text field, one line per record. 
Revolution's text handling, sorting & filtering make such a data 
structure very fast & easy to use.

> 2.This info needs to be accessable over the web by the feedlot, so 
> that the manager can forecast his feed requirements well in advance of 
> the cattle arriving, similarly the slaughterhouse needs access so they 
> can 'forward sell' the resulting meat. They would also be inputting 
> weight and carcass and price data for feedback to the breeders. (who 
> also need access)
>
> 3. Web access can be flaky in the more remote areas, so I don't want a 
> typical 'web application', rather something more along the lines of 
> the excellent GoRevnet. That is, I would need the program to be able 
> to operate as a local application, then by clicking a button, connect 
> to a server, synchronise with the database, and upload 'new' 
> information and download 'new' information, automatically
Set up an FTP site and have the software at each property log into the 
FTP server and check for updates every now & then. If they had no net 
access, they could keep going with the data they had already.
>
> 4. The info would need to be segregated by password so that indiviual 
> breeders would only have access to their own info, but head office 
> would have access to everything. Similarly the feedlot could access 
> the breeder records but not slaughterhouse records.
Two possibilities come to mind: either control the downloading of info 
so they don't even get to see what else is on the FTP site (they don't 
even need to know the password if you embed it in your app), or control 
access to separate folders at your FTP site, perhaps using something 
like .htaccess files.
>
> 5. It would also need some fairly flexible reporting functionality
Rev doesn't have a good report generator yet, but one good way to go is 
to have a report printing stack that assembles all the data into 
specific fields and then prints the whole card or cards.
>
> I know the first thing ppl will say is to 'try something less 
> complicated first and work up to a project like this', which is what I 
> will do, but although I think this can be done in Rev, I don't want to 
> buy a license, without knowing that it can eventually done.
Like all projects, there are lots of small sections. Just work on them 
a bit at a time and you won't get overwhelmed. There are a lot of very 
knowledgeable people on this list who are always ready to give advice 
and encouragement and there is enough diversity so that you can always 
find someone to help in any situation.

Just one word of warning as there have been some misconceptions about 
this list: although the Rev people read this list and sometimes 
contribute, nearly all the people on this list are NOT employees of 
Runtime Revolution, they help out of kindness and get no reward. This 
means that it is not possible to demand help. If a question doesn't get 
an answer, this is nearly always because the question was not phrased 
in a way that made a quick answer possible. Try re-phrasing it, 
splitting it into sections or even including a portion of script.

This is not a complaint about your email which was polite and clear, 
but I thought I would seize the opportunity to remind everyone about 
the nature of this list and the best way to get help :-)

Cheers,
Sarah


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Aug 15 23:24:45 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:24:45 -0400
Subject: Shell was( Rev Web Solutions?)
In-Reply-To: <3A5853B2-E523-11D8-AEE1-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <D22B0FB8-EF33-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, August 3, 2004, at 04:00 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>> but I'd still like to try out and see how to work with shell() for  
>> other things as you mentioned above for maintenance purposes . The  
>> question, where I can get some education on that .
>
> About general PostgreSQL + Metacard/Revolution posts :
> <http://www.google.com/ 
> search?as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>
> About handling a PostgreSQL back-end from Revolution in CGI mode :
> <http://www.google.com/ 
> search?as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql+sadhu>
> About handling a PostgreSQL back-end from Revolution set up as a  
> web/eai applications server :
> <http://www.google.com/ 
> search?as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql+sahores>
I looked over these links but didn't get anywhere. I need to know how  
to access the first postgres db command and I'll try to get on from  
there.
I tryed to put just a simple command " put  shell(" cd -")" or "shell  
("ls ..") and got an error Script: missing '"' after literal or command  
not found.
Thanks , Hershel
>
> Best, Pierre


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Sun Aug 15 23:51:14 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:51:14 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELGGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELGGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <8519E918-EF37-11D8-BFAA-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 15, 2004, at 2:55 AM, MisterX wrote:

>
> Have you tried contacting a publisher / distributor?
> Maybe there's specialized ones for educational markets
> but in general, they can take that load off your back
> eventually.

Marketing software is a wonderful topic.  Something I would imagine 
just about everyone on this list might be interested in.  I have been 
marketing my software for about 8 years now and am not afraid to offer 
some of my experiences.

There are a handful of education distributors left in the U.S.  Most 
are slipping and have gone out of business do to this market going soft 
over the past 3 years.  I do work with distributors and have found them 
to be very effective.  When it comes to distributors that work with 
retail in stores, that is a different beast altogether.  Most will 
offer you 10-15% of their net.  Once you tie up with a distributor, you 
can get locked into long contracts where you may lose control over 
certain aspects of your product.

I'll get off my soap box for now unless others are interested in 
opening this up.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Sun Aug 15 23:52:41 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:52:41 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <5081BDE5-EE99-11D8-875D-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<224FCF9D-EBCE-11D8-91F6-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411ABF90.8010303@chipp.com>
	<AFECE64B-EBFF-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411B06E0.5020502@chipp.com>
	<DEC1F3A7-EC2B-11D8-A160-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<CEDAE744-ED6B-11D8-BC70-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
	<B96BFEDC-EE27-11D8-8DE4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
	<DA21ABC8-EE83-11D8-95D6-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>
	<5081BDE5-EE99-11D8-875D-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <B8DAB0A2-EF37-11D8-BFAA-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 15, 2004, at 1:58 AM, Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:

>> Canela means cinnamon in Spanish.
> that was the reason why i asked, because its promising something 
> sweet. Canela is what we in the euopean cooking use a lot for 
> sweets;))

My wife makes me canela tea all of the time.  It is how we picked our 
company name.  Plus, there were no trademarks for the name.  I had 
problems with my previous name.  Trademarking is another interesting 
topic!

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 15 23:55:15 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:55:15 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <8519E918-EF37-11D8-BFAA-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELGGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
	<8519E918-EF37-11D8-BFAA-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <151574A8-EF38-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 15, 2004, at 11:51 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:

> Most will offer you 10-15% of their net.  Once you tie up with a 
> distributor, you can get locked into long contracts where you may lose 
> control over certain aspects of your product.
>

How very generous. The shrink wrap your hard work, and keep 90% for 
their trouble. Maybe they *should* go out of business.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug 16 00:20:52 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:20:52 -0700
Subject: Compilers for external dll
In-Reply-To: <20040816002423.99668.qmail@web40511.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040816002423.99668.qmail@web40511.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <11042184077.20040815212052@ahsoftware.net>

Alejandro-

Sunday, August 15, 2004, 5:24:23 PM, you wrote:

AT> Knowledge about how to pass C strings,
AT> strings terminated in nulls, that is the
AT> unlocking piece for this Pascal dll.

The last time I checked, Pascal used strings that had a length byte as
their first character, instead of being null-terminated. The
conversion from one form to the other is pretty easy.

At one time I used a hybrid string form internally:
length + string + null termination

and I could then use it as a pascal string or a C string, depending on
whether I specified it starting at byte 0 or byte 1.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Aug 16 00:15:50 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 00:15:50 -0400
Subject: close stack
Message-ID: <F4C8CF9E-EF3A-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

I'm wondering why when I put "close stack "b" in a script it also hides 
or closes the stack where the script is in  stack "a" ?

Thanks Hershel


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug 16 00:31:01 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 00:31:01 -0400
Subject: close stack
In-Reply-To: <F4C8CF9E-EF3A-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <F4C8CF9E-EF3A-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <141AC3E8-EF3D-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 12:15 AM, Hershel Fisch wrote:

> I'm wondering why when I put "close stack "b" in a script it also 
> hides or closes the stack where the script is in  stack "a" ?

What is the relationship between the stacks? Is "a" a substack of "b"?

And, do you have any "closeStack" handlers anywhere?
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 00:47:39 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 01:47:39 -0300
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
Message-ID: <66A0E050-EF3F-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>


Paul,

Your app can be done in Rev. I would advise you to use some SQL 
database to store your data. You could use Valentina for your local 
solution and MySQL for your internet solution, since they both share 
the RevDB api, you build your code only once and just tell what DB your 
using when you open them.

I think you need SQL for you'll be cross searching data, and SQL is 
great at that, if you're using Arrays or XML, then you need to build 
your own cross searching routines and thats a science on it's own.

I know nothing of report producing in Rev, but I am learning much of 
the Rev net features features, so if you need any assistance on the 
net, I can try to help you. I would go like this.

On the application startup (not the handler but the time when it 
starts), I would check for net connection, it I've got net connection, 
then I would connect to main server and fetch data I need and push it 
inside the valentina local db, only after that I would allow the user 
to interact with the system. One trick part is synchronization. If 
you've got multiple connections using the same DB you must take care 
for them not to overwrite each other modfications. Imagine this 
scenario where:

1) Client A, fetches Data from main DB.
2) Client B, fetches Data from main DB.
3) They both fiddle with the Data and change same records.
4) Client A uploads back it's data.
5) Client B uploads back it's data.

In this hellish case, client A data modifications are lost due to 
client B overwrite. If all clients are working with the same tables and 
records accross the net, you must build your software in a way to 
prevent this from happening. MySQL got some locking mechanisms on it's 
own, I don't know how to use them, but someone here sure know and there 
are very good skilled DB programmers here and they will sure point you 
to the right location.

Andre


On Aug 15, 2004, at 10:43 PM, Paul wrote:

> Dear list,
> As a complete programming newbie, first I should say, that I'm glad to 
> be in a community that actually welcomes us newbies, even try to 
> attract us, thanks!!!.
> I haven't bought a Rev license yet as I'm not (100%) sure the 
> application I'm planning is possible in Revolution, so I have a few 
> questions that I hope someone will help with!!!
> The company I'm looking to design the application for, is a vertically 
> integrated cattle company, meaning they have breeding properties, 
> feedlots and an abattoir (slaughterhouse)
>
> Requirements
>
> 1.What I'm hoping to do is build a system where each of the breeding 
> properties can record enter cattle weight (and other) details,and have 
> the application work out an individual's daily weight gain and 
> forecast future weights.
>
> Question: These records would typically be over 5000 animals with 
> possibly 20 to 30 records each. Would I use a SQL database, XML, 
> Arrays, or cards to store the data? (sorry, I've still a lot to learn, 
> obviously!!!)
>
> 2.This info needs to be accessable over the web by the feedlot, so 
> that the manager can forecast his feed requirements well in advance of 
> the cattle arriving, similarly the slaughterhouse needs access so they 
> can 'forward sell' the resulting meat. They would also be inputting 
> weight and carcass and price data for feedback to the breeders. (who 
> also need access)
>
> 3. Web access can be flaky in the more remote areas, so I don't want a 
> typical 'web application', rather something more along the lines of 
> the excellent GoRevnet. That is, I would need the program to be able 
> to operate as a local application, then by clicking a button, connect 
> to a server, synchronise with the database, and upload 'new' 
> information and download 'new' information, automatically
>
> 4. The info would need to be segregated by password so that indiviual 
> breeders would only have access to their own info, but head office 
> would have access to everything. Similarly the feedlot could access 
> the breeder records but not slaughterhouse records.
>
> 5. It would also need some fairly flexible reporting functionality
>
> I know the first thing ppl will say is to 'try something less 
> complicated first and work up to a project like this', which is what I 
> will do, but although I think this can be done in Rev, I don't want to 
> buy a license, without knowing that it can eventually done.
> Thanks in advance
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Aug 16 01:19:01 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:19:01 +0200
Subject: Shell was( Rev Web Solutions?)
In-Reply-To: <D22B0FB8-EF33-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <D22B0FB8-EF33-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <C89C5202-EF43-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hi Hershel,

On witch platform are you planning to develop your app ? I can provide  
you Linux and MacOS X example apps you could use as starter point.

Best, Pierre

Le 16 ao?t 04, ? 05:24, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :

>
> On Tuesday, August 3, 2004, at 04:00 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>> but I'd still like to try out and see how to work with shell() for  
>>> other things as you mentioned above for maintenance purposes . The  
>>> question, where I can get some education on that .
>>
>> About general PostgreSQL + Metacard/Revolution posts :
>> <http://www.google.com/search? 
>> as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>
>> About handling a PostgreSQL back-end from Revolution in CGI mode :
>> <http://www.google.com/search? 
>> as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql+sadhu>
>> About handling a PostgreSQL back-end from Revolution set up as a  
>> web/eai applications server :
>> <http://www.google.com/search? 
>> as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql+sahores>
> I looked over these links but didn't get anywhere. I need to know how  
> to access the first postgres db command and I'll try to get on from  
> there.
> I tryed to put just a simple command " put  shell(" cd -")" or "shell  
> ("ls ..") and got an error Script: missing '"' after literal or  
> command not found.
> Thanks , Hershel
>>
>> Best, Pierre
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug 16 01:23:22 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:23:22 -1000
Subject: Standalone failure for Mac PPC 9.2
Message-ID: <64670436-EF44-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

I have a stand alone that works fine under OSX. and on Windows 2000 or 
XP

a) If I do the build for PPC for the Mac it fails on a iMac running 
9.2....
b) It also fails on an old laptop running Windows 98.

How do I diagnose and solve this problem? I only need to focus on a) 
above for now (mac, classic PPC) because  the Windows user bailed on 
the project out of frustration...

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 01:32:39 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 02:32:39 -0300
Subject: Standalone failure for Mac PPC 9.2
In-Reply-To: <64670436-EF44-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <64670436-EF44-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <B045443B-EF45-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>


Sannyasin,

does the App ever launch? You can use the standalone builder and check 
"include error reporting" dialog (or something like that) this error 
reporting stack will trap the error and ask what to do... choose save 
file, it will be a text file, see inside where the error was (it will 
be a text like the ones we see on that "error" window on Rev)

that's the way I do when profiling errors on platforms where I can't 
use Rev IDE due to lack of license.

Andre


On Aug 16, 2004, at 2:23 AM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> I have a stand alone that works fine under OSX. and on Windows 2000 or 
> XP
>
> a) If I do the build for PPC for the Mac it fails on a iMac running 
> 9.2....
> b) It also fails on an old laptop running Windows 98.
>
> How do I diagnose and solve this problem? I only need to focus on a) 
> above for now (mac, classic PPC) because  the Windows user bailed on 
> the project out of frustration...
>
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
> Himalayan Academy Publications
> at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
> katir at hindu.org
>
> www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
> www.HinduismToday.com
> www.Gurudeva.org
> www.Hindu.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Aug 16 01:39:27 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:39:27 +0200
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
Message-ID: <A3598C72-EF46-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 16 ao?t 04, ? 03:43, Paul a ?crit :

> Dear list,
> As a complete programming newbie, first I should say, that I'm glad to 
> be in a community that actually welcomes us newbies, even try to 
> attract us, thanks!!!.
> I haven't bought a Rev license yet as I'm not (100%) sure the 
> application I'm planning is possible in Revolution, so I have a few 
> questions that I hope someone will help with!!!
> The company I'm looking to design the application for, is a vertically 
> integrated cattle company, meaning they have breeding properties, 
> feedlots and an abattoir (slaughterhouse)
>
> Requirements
>
> 1.What I'm hoping to do is build a system where each of the breeding 
> properties can record enter cattle weight (and other) details,and have 
> the application work out an individual's daily weight gain and 
> forecast future weights.
>
> Question: These records would typically be over 5000 animals with 
> possibly 20 to 30 records each. Would I use a SQL database, XML, 
> Arrays, or cards to store the data? (sorry, I've still a lot to learn, 
> obviously!!!)

Rev binded to Valentina (local DB) and PostgreSQL (remote DB)...
>
> 2.This info needs to be accessable over the web by the feedlot, so 
> that the manager can forecast his feed requirements well in advance of 
> the cattle arriving, similarly the slaughterhouse needs access so they 
> can 'forward sell' the resulting meat. They would also be inputting 
> weight and carcass and price data for feedback to the breeders. (who 
> also need access)
>
> 3. Web access can be flaky in the more remote areas, so I don't want a 
> typical 'web application', rather something more along the lines of 
> the excellent GoRevnet. That is, I would need the program to be able 
> to operate as a local application, then by clicking a button, connect 
> to a server, synchronise with the database, and upload 'new' 
> information and download 'new' information, automatically

See upon..
>
> 4. The info would need to be segregated by password so that indiviual 
> breeders would only have access to their own info, but head office 
> would have access to everything. Similarly the feedlot could access 
> the breeder records but not slaughterhouse records.

Rev Transcript scripting...
>
> 5. It would also need some fairly flexible reporting functionality
>
> I know the first thing ppl will say is to 'try something less 
> complicated first and work up to a project like this', which is what I 
> will do, but although I think this can be done in Rev, I don't want to 
> buy a license, without knowing that it can eventually done.

As Sarah, Dan, Andre and more, i work all the time on such kind of apps 
and i wouldn't want to use an other core dev tool than Revolution to 
build them :D

> Thanks in advance
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Mon Aug 16 02:17:48 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:47:48 +0930
Subject: Standalone failure for Mac PPC 9.2
In-Reply-To: <64670436-EF44-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEIOEOAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


Check out things like filenames longer than 32 chars that Classic can't
handle.

Cheers

--
  Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
  Sweat Technologies

  InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
  http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget


>-----Original Message-----
>From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Sannyasin
>Sivakatirswami
>Sent: Monday, 16 August 2004 2:53 PM
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Subject: Standalone failure for Mac PPC 9.2
>
>
>I have a stand alone that works fine under OSX. and on Windows 2000 or
>XP
>
>a) If I do the build for PPC for the Mac it fails on a iMac running
>9.2....
>b) It also fails on an old laptop running Windows 98.
>
>How do I diagnose and solve this problem? I only need to focus on a)
>above for now (mac, classic PPC) because  the Windows user bailed on
>the project out of frustration...
>
>Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
>Himalayan Academy Publications
>at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
>katir at hindu.org
>
>www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
>www.HinduismToday.com
>www.Gurudeva.org
>www.Hindu.org
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Aug 16 02:19:01 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 01:19:01 -0500
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <411FE1BA.3080001@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BD45BC05.3F80%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/15/04 5:20 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> While #670 describes only a limited implementation and still has a good
> many necessary properties undefined, it's a fair start and got my 5 votes.
> 
> There are more complete specs posted previously to the improve-rev list
> -- Ken, do you have those?  Should they be posted to #670 or would that
> broaden the scope of that requst too much?

I don't happen to have them handy. I'll see if I can scare 'em up, and if I
can, I'll add it to #670.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Mon Aug 16 02:37:43 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:37:43 +0200
Subject: Standalone failure for Mac PPC 9.2
In-Reply-To: <64670436-EF44-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <64670436-EF44-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <p06110404bd460666fd05@[10.0.0.1]>

>I have a stand alone that works fine under OSX. and on Windows 2000 or XP
>
>a) If I do the build for PPC for the Mac it fails on a iMac running 9.2....
>b) It also fails on an old laptop running Windows 98.
>
How do I diagnose and solve this problem? I only need to focus on a) 
above for now (mac, classic PPC) because  the Windows user bailed on 
the project out of frustration...


Was it compressed as an ".sit"?
If so maybe an updated of stuffit is needed.

atb
sims


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug 16 03:52:49 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 02:52:49 -0500
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <8B26A5F8-EEFE-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <6D97CD94-EEFB-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
	<8B26A5F8-EEFE-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <412067D1.7090204@chipp.com>

Troy,

I've seen some absolutely stunning tables created by Jerry Daniels. 
Tables which have rows and columns which collapse and expand. Icons and 
checkboxes are also used. In fact, I'm sure Jerry could even build a 
table easily with progress bars as well...so I believe it's possible. If 
this is a project for a client, you might want to contract Jerry for a 
few hours to help you roll your own table.

Dan Shafer has used him on a recent project to build us a custom report 
generator using some similar table objects.

He's at www.daniels-mara.com

best,

Chipp


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug 16 04:29:46 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 01:29:46 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <8519E918-EF37-11D8-BFAA-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELGGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
	<8519E918-EF37-11D8-BFAA-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <4120707A.60507@fourthworld.com>

Mark Talluto wrote:

> Marketing software is a wonderful topic.  Something I would imagine just 
> about everyone on this list might be interested in.  I have been 
> marketing my software for about 8 years now and am not afraid to offer 
> some of my experiences.

We're planning another SoCal Rev User Group meeting for early September. 
  I'd happily try to arrange it around your schedule if you'd care to 
talk about marketing in the after-dinner portion of the meeting (Trevor 
has graciously agreed to demo his QT external in the pre-dinner 
presentation).

At the last SoCal RUG (on your birthday, if I recall) we had some 
requests for marketing discussion, so it would be most timely if you 
could consider it.

For those not in southern California:  Are there other regional Rev user 
groups meeting yet?  Seems there would be enough folks in NY, Brazil, 
and London to make for some good meetings, possibly other regions as 
well (time for a NoCal RUG?).

If so please note the URL to the group's home page here.  The SoCal RUG 
page is at:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socalrev/>

Feel free to email me if you're interested in starting a regional user 
group and would like some ideas about how to get started. Geoff Canyon 
and I have started pooling notes to help other RUGs get going....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Aug 16 05:05:53 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:05:53 +0200
Subject: OT: Processing
In-Reply-To: <4120707A.60507@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEMEGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


here's a cool link for those into graphic scripting ;)

http://processing.org

cheers
Xavier

From stephenmcnutt at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 05:46:50 2004
From: stephenmcnutt at mac.com (Stephen McNutt)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 05:46:50 -0400
Subject: Stand-Alone Sorrow Update
Message-ID: <32709E74-EF69-11D8-B81E-000A95DDD0EA@mac.com>

Okay, I figured out what I'd done with the Mac OS X stand-alone that 
made it stop working a couple weeks ago:  I'd changed the name of the 
app within the stand-alone builder settings but didn't change it in the 
line of code that points it to the data files.  Simple mistake.

I still don't know why I'm getting the Windows stand-alone problem, 
though.  I should add to what I typed previously that both within 
Virtual PC and on the other actual PC's I've tried the stand-alone on, 
the OS is Windows XP.  Here's a reprint of that problem:

When I build a Windows stand-alone, it runs just fine within Virtual PC 
6.1 on my iMac.  When I stick it on my flash drive and take it to a PC, 
I get generic icons (not the custom one I built with IconFactory--which 
shows up just fine within Virtual PC) and the app won't open.  I get an 
error message that says something about initialization failing and that 
the error was 8, 0.

Thanks,
Steve McNutt


From toncardona at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 06:00:08 2004
From: toncardona at mac.com (Ton Cardona)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:00:08 +0200
Subject: How to detect which files need an update
Message-ID: <0E5E7580-EF6B-11D8-A56E-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>

I agree with you all in which dates, seconds and their conversions are 
a mess. If one could convert the seconds to the date it would be fine.

Sarah proposes a good solution; the trouble is I am dealing with some 
2.500 compressed  files, not with a few stacks ...

My FTP gives me the date and the time all right but files on a hard 
disk offer the modification date in  ... seconds for reasons I cannot 
wholly grasp

Thanks anyway to you all; the solution I have found is not ideal but it 
works reasonably well; the user can choose to update either today?s new 
files, last week?s or last month?s

Ton Cardona

From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Mon Aug 16 07:05:14 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:05:14 +0100
Subject: Win XP SP2, anyone tried it?
In-Reply-To: <200408151422.i7FEMnBA010166@mac.com>
References: <200408151422.i7FEMnBA010166@mac.com>
Message-ID: <267528B4-EF74-11D8-ABC9-000A9569F8B0@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 15 Aug 2004, at 15:22, Derek Hadlington wrote:

> Ditto here been using Rev with SP2 for several weeks with no apparent
> problems.
>
> Regards
> Derek
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Chipp 
> Walters
> Sent: 13 August 2004 04:17
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Win XP SP2, anyone tried it?
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I've used it at the office with Hemingway. Seems to work just fine with
> the embedded firewall turned on. We haven't tested it against any proxy
> servers just yet.
>
> -Chipp
>
That's good to hear. It seems like many many apps are not so fortunate.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1636075,00.asp

Cheers
Dave


From wbl at wilddsl.net.au  Mon Aug 16 07:05:21 2004
From: wbl at wilddsl.net.au (Bruce Laidlaw)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:05:21 +1000
Subject: sound in revolution nr. 666
In-Reply-To: <823F4AB0-EEAC-11D8-90EF-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <20040806031800.ADE819300FF@mail.runrev.com>
	<001401c47c8a$deb60b60$5602a8c0@athalon> <411C344D.7050301@wilddsl.net.au>
	<27D5B8D4-ED05-11D8-98C4-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<411F34F7.10005@wilddsl.net.au>
	<AC5773C6-EEA7-11D8-A69B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<823F4AB0-EEAC-11D8-90EF-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <412094F1.6070803@wilddsl.net.au>

Oooooooops!! Sorry! :(

I didn't import the wav sound properly. Now I have, it works in Mac and 
Windows.

BTW, I can't see any way of checking what audio files have been imported 
into a stack. Where do I look?

Bruce
-----------
Marian Petrides wrote:

> Am I missing something here?  I import a WAV file into Rev then play 
> it using:  play "Applause.wav"  I have no problems with doing it this 
> way on Mac OS X or Win XP.
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2004, at 6:41 AM, Klaus Major wrote:
>
>> Hi Bruce,
>>
>>> Thanks, guys,
>>>
>>> I've changed the script to 'play audioclip "applause.wav"' and 
>>> imported the sound as a control. However, it now doesn't work on Mac.
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
====================================
A handsome young lad named MacGookie   
At betting was quite a smart cookie  
Before every race   
He relaxed at his place   
Curled up with a very good bookie.


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 16 07:10:20 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:10:20 -0400
Subject: sound in revolution nr. 666
In-Reply-To: <412094F1.6070803@wilddsl.net.au>
References: <20040806031800.ADE819300FF@mail.runrev.com>
	<001401c47c8a$deb60b60$5602a8c0@athalon> <411C344D.7050301@wilddsl.net.au>
	<27D5B8D4-ED05-11D8-98C4-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<411F34F7.10005@wilddsl.net.au>
	<AC5773C6-EEA7-11D8-A69B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<823F4AB0-EEAC-11D8-90EF-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<412094F1.6070803@wilddsl.net.au>
Message-ID: <DC6458DB-EF74-11D8-A030-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Look in the Application Browser.  In 2.1.2:  Tools menu -->  
Application Browser --->  click the little arrow to the left of the 
stack name to expand the stack and then look in Audio Clips.

M
On Aug 16, 2004, at 7:05 AM, Bruce Laidlaw wrote:

> Oooooooops!! Sorry! :(
>
> I didn't import the wav sound properly. Now I have, it works in Mac 
> and Windows.
>
> BTW, I can't see any way of checking what audio files have been 
> imported into a stack. Where do I look?


From scott at bc.edu  Mon Aug 16 07:13:31 2004
From: scott at bc.edu (Scott Kinder)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:13:31 -0400
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 69
In-Reply-To: <20040816032726.73D259300DB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4EBE1CEA-EF75-11D8-9A6F-000A956863E2@bc.edu>

Hi Moe

 From the Tao of Pooh:

"One of the basic principles of Taoism is P'U, the Uncarved Block. The 
essence of the Uncarved Block is that things in their original 
simplicity contain their own natural power, power that is easily 
spoiled and lost when that simplicity is changed."

I had never heard of the menuHistory property, so it did not interfere 
with my approach to the problem. Ignorance is bliss ;-D

Good Luck!
Scott

On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 11:27 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> there is an concept here that you wrote that i have not thought of ... 
> i
> will incorporate your thoughts into my code ... my excitment has been
> rejuvinated ... this will take some time, but when i am done i will 
> post
> what i have if it works
>
> your comments and suggestions are very much appreciated Scott
> and i think what you have written will be of great help, THANK YOU

From wmb at internettrainer.com  Mon Aug 16 07:28:50 2004
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:28:50 +0200
Subject: OT: Processing
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEMEGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEMEGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <72746F9C-EF77-11D8-AB42-003065430226@internettrainer.com>


On 16.08.2004, at 11:05, MisterX wrote:

> here's a cool link for those into graphic scripting ;)
>
> http://processing.org
Thats extremely interesting!

Thanks a lot for that link, MisterX...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps? -- speedlearning with Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539


From bvg at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 07:37:38 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:37:38 +0200
Subject: Stand-Alone Sorrow Update
In-Reply-To: <32709E74-EF69-11D8-B81E-000A95DDD0EA@mac.com>
References: <32709E74-EF69-11D8-B81E-000A95DDD0EA@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AD1C263D-EF78-11D8-8D77-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>

It would be useful to offer the list some more details about what you 
are doing with your standalone. For example, when you put your 
standalone into the "program files" folder, then you can't write to 
your data files, maybe that is the reason why it won't run?
You might also try to transfer your standalone via other means then the 
usb stick, maybe it is corrupted?
What do you get when you include error reporting into your standalone?

There are of course many other possible problems, but without more 
detail its hard to help.

greetings
Bjoernke von Gierke

<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.0.rev"


From markgreenberg at cox.net  Mon Aug 16 08:07:33 2004
From: markgreenberg at cox.net (Mark Greenberg)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 05:07:33 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040814224250.12E8F930100@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <DAC5F3D9-EF7C-11D8-BFA0-000A959B61BE@cox.net>


On Saturday, August 14, 2004, at 03:42 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Marc, Did you ever receive any mails from Rev
> education mail list? I bet that you will feel
> at home in that list.

I don't see the education mailing list mentioned on the Rev web site.  
Where can I subscribe to it?

>
>> For about 7 years my students have been using
>> computers to learn
>> through games that I have designed, and they have
>> made presentations
>> that include variable dependent animation.  For
>> instance, one student
>> made a stack that painted a picture randomly in one
>> of a dozen color
>> schemes and the player had to click on the type of
>> color scheme.
>> Another made a graph under the normal curve (for
>> Stat class) that
>> animated according to three different variables, all
>> entered by the
>> user.  There are scores more.
>
> Did you have a link to see these projects? :-)

I don't.  I develop them at home, or my students make them in class, to 
be used on the lab computers at school.  There never was a need to make 
them available on the Web.  I don't have a personal web site.  In the 
past I have either emailed the stacks to interested people or sent them 
through regular mail if they were too large for email.  All my Rev 
stacks fit on one CD, and I'd be glad to send them to anyone who is 
interested if they contact me off-list.  They are teaching-game stacks 
mostly for the high school level.  Some of the stacks described in my 
original post are not Rev stacks, but HyperStudio stacks scripted in 
HyperLogo.

Mark Greenberg
English Teacher

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 15 21:55:45 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:55:45 -0400
Subject: Stand-Alone Sorrow
In-Reply-To: <AEDAA380-EF1B-11D8-B3D2-000A95DDD0EA@mac.com>
References: <AEDAA380-EF1B-11D8-B3D2-000A95DDD0EA@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6376122A-EF27-11D8-A030-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

The cryptic error message is vaguely reminiscent of the problem Pamela  
Crossley was having a couple of weeks ago.  In that case the problem  
turned out to be a corrupted substack. Others had, I believe, reported  
problems with image corruption causing bizarre errors.

I am appending Pamela's synopsis of her problem and some information  
Richard Gaskin summarized concerning corruption, especially image  
corruption, in the hope that it may help track down your problem.

NOTE:  I don't make a habit of repeating large portions of other  
people's posts, but in this case these both seemed to be valuable  
enough summaries that I saved them to disk and thought I ought to share  
them.  Sorry for the length of this post, especially if it doesn't  
help.

Marian
-----
Pamela's summary:

To review, the problem was:  An application built in OSX that built and  
ran without any problems in OSX could not under any circumstances be  
transferred to and run by a Windows machine.  Invariably, the resulting  
error was "0,0".  The fix was:  Ken Ray used MetaCard to identify a  
corrupt substack, I rewrote it, rebuilt for WIndows, distributed it as  
an .exe file (no zipping, in this case), and it worked.  The successful  
build happened to be in Revolution 2.2.1, which I had freshly  
reinstalled after searching hundreds of archives looking for the  
licence number.

Sounds simple, but it is worth remembering that before the application  
of MetaCard (as Andre foresaw) to this problem, there was absolutely no  
clue to where the problem lay.  In the end, we found out only where the  
problem lay, not exactly what it was.  That was enough to fix it, but I  
still have some questions.

First, I can say this from my experience of rewriting the stack:

As it happened the corrupted stack was one of the oldest in the  
application, and had certainly been present in very much its current  
form from the earliest builds (the ones that went across to Windows  
with no problems). In one of the scripts I found a stray "the" in an  
instruction.  I'm not assuming this was the problem, since I would have  
no way of understanding exactly how a "the" can cause disaster.  
Normally, that is the kind or error that the script editor seems to  
pick up as soon as the instructions are applied.  Now, it is possible  
to save the script anyway (and with a lot of windows open that can  
happen by accident anyway), so if this the source of evil, I should  
report that it was found.

Questions about that.  Why would OSX happily work around such as error?  
  Is this a deprecation issue? If so, my feature request for Revolution  
4.x or 5.x would be that it flag ambiguous items according to the  
standards of the least-likely-to-deprecate system (which I am guessing,  
in this case, is Windows).

Second, I found MANY scripts in this stack (and probably in others)  
afflicted by a pesky problem that has before this seemed to me to be  
merely an annoyance.  A lot of my scripts insert strange empty space  
between the last instruction and the bottom of the window.  In a very  
small number of cases, I have found for a long time that the script  
editor reports a compiling error when these strange spaces are present,  
and then compiles happily when I remove the space.  But removing the  
space is not usually final.  Some script windows keep putting the  
mystery space whenever the script is opened.  I sometimes just copy the  
script into a text editor, and delete the old script entirely, review  
it for errors (there are usually none), paste it back in a new window,  
apply immediately, close immediately, and save. These wrestling matches  
are sometimes annoying, but I've always been able to work around them  
and in any case the script editor seems to report what it sees as an  
error immediately.

Questions about that:  What is with the empty space misbehavior in the  
first place?  Is it dangerous? Can it corrupt a stack file? Is this  
also a deprecation issue (sort of, in reverse)?

I found nothing else in the visible stack instructions that seemed in  
any way possible to connect with a corrupted or malfunctioning stack.

Richard Gaskin asked about images.  There is a background image in the  
mainstack that distributes to the substacks.  No other images of any  
kind in the corrupted stack.  I agree that Photoshop provides the best  
images for Revolution, and I always use that, rendering usually jpg but  
sometimes png images for logos or backgrounds. All other images  
displayed via this application come from the server.

That is all I have to report concerning the corrupted stack. No idea  
whether any of the above is actually related to the cause of the  
corruption.  However, the process of dealing with this has raised a few  
other questions.

Regarding the immortal dialog stack that nobody could kill (Andre  
suggested that MetaCard could be lethal to it, however), and which  
Andre has immortalized in his screen shots:  What seemed to have  
happened (before the no-Windows crisis) was that I downloaded an  
alternative dialog stack because I hated the three-mile-wide default  
dialog thing.  Once it was brought in as a substack, it appeared in the  
application browser, and seemed to always pre-empt Revolution's own  
dialog stacks in the IDE. It was a strange neon color so I fiddled with  
it, but it always looked ugly and finally I zapped it. But, as Andre  
discovered, it did not die.  There was absolutely no way to get it out  
of the stack.  You could disappear it from the browser and save, but  
when you reopened the mainstack it would reappear again. I figured it  
kept appearing in the IDE because it had somehow preempted the  
Revolution dialog stacks, but in that case why did it keep reappearing  
in the application browser as if it belonged in my application even  
though it was now working for the IDE?

But here is something else kind of neat.  When I finally gave up trying  
to make the alternative dialog stack look presentable, I zapped it, and  
when it was reincarnated it had picked up the background image of the  
mainstack!  This was, in fact, highly desirable. I liked it. It carried  
over beautifully to the OSX builds (of course, I never saw it in the  
Windows builds). I might try to make it happen again. If this can be  
tamed, it would be a useful addition, maybe?

In the end, I rid myself of the immortal dialog stack by creating a new  
mainstack and pointing all the substacks to it.  That left the old  
mainstack and the immortal dialog stack in a little universe of their  
own, after which they were closed and consigned to the dustbin of  
history.

Finally, the question with which it all began:  What in creation is a  
"0,0" error?  I have tentatively decided to interpret this as:  "I  
don't have the slightest idea why I cannot open and run your perfectly  
good application."

====

Information from Richard Gaskin re: corruption, esp. image corruption:

Richard Gaskin asked about images.  There is a background image in the
mainstack that distributes to the substacks.  No other images of any
kind in the corrupted stack.  I agree that Photoshop provides the best
images for Revolution, and I always use that, rendering usually jpg
but sometimes png images for logos or backgrounds. All other images
displayed via this application come from the server.

What I had asked was:

     "Just a wild guess:  are there any image objects there?
      If so, what happens if you remove only those?"

I looked at your stack file.  None of the substacks themselves nor their
cards appear to be corrupted.  I removed the three images from the
substack "MONGOL_EDIT" and it opened fine on Windows.

It may be that only one of the images has bad data, but I didn't have
time to do the trial-and-error of deleting one at a time until I found
the culprit.

I'm at a loss to determine why the images would work well on Mac OS and
not Win, but the exercise was instructive in serving as a reminder about
the nature of corruption and how understanding that can help diagnose
problems.


If you come from a HyperCard, SuperCard, or FileMaker background it's
understandable that a wide variety of unexpected behaviors will be
viewed as file corruption.  But the notorious 5454 error that plagued
all but the most dilligent HyperCard users (that would be Paul Looney
<g>) is a card-level corruption that is almost entirely unknown with  
Rev.

In Rev, in the very rare cases that something is corrupted in my
experience it's limited to a single control rather than the card or
stack record.  In working with the engine for more than seven years I've
seen only one such case many years ago, and while I've heard of others
their descriptions do not appear consistent with actual corruption.  In
all but one case I've seen firsthand things that were reported as  
corruption turned out not to be (with the one exception from seven  
years ago being an image control).

I've written about corruption before, and to avoid sounding like a
broken record I'll just provide links to that background discussion if
it's of interest:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-June/017928.html>
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-December/ 
010842.html>
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-December/ 
010776.html>

The most relevant point is the one Scott Raney closes with in the last
of those posts

     If you've got something that you can reproduce, by all means
     send in a bug report so that we can make it even rarer ;-)

It would be helpful to send a note to support at runrev.com with a note on
how to get the stackfile.  It might also be very helpful if you have the
original image files used in that stack, so they can be compared with
the image data in the imported image objects.


How did I know the images were the culprit?

Like I said, it was just a guess.  But in the only case of actual
corruption I've ever seen firsthand the cause turned out to be an
imported image object, so it seemed worth trying those first.

I can't stress enough how useful it can be to try to forget the scarring
experiences of stack- or card-level corruption you may have encountered
with other tools when diagnosing problems encountered with Rev.

When something is corrupted the remedy usually involves deleting the
offending object and rebuilding it.  If you decide it's a card or a
stack or the entire stack file before you really know if that's the
case, you can spend a great deal of time rebuilding objects that don't
need to be rebuilt.  If the engine can open the file, any problem can  
probably be fixed with relative ease.

In seven years with the engine, your image objects are only the second
instance of corruption I've seen.  And the remedy was far simpler than
what's normally needed for correcting corruption issues in HyperCard.

The only other case of corruption I've seen was also with imported image
objects, but this is understandable as imported image objects are
complex creatures in which most of the data the engine's dealing with
was created by some other app.  I've never seen a corrupted object which
was created entirely by the engine itself; not to say it can't happen,
but it's rare enough that I don't think about it.

And before you get the impression that imported images are somehow
problematic, consider the odds:  Think of the number of Rev users and
the number of images they import into stacks every year, and remember
that the engine's been around since 1992 with very few verifiable cases
of corruption.

Since 1997 I've only seen two such cases, so I have a high degree of
confidence that corruption does not occur with 99.9999% of imported
image objects, and 99.999999999999999% all other objects. :)

Summary on corruption:

1. Most of the time when the engine reports corruption it's a case of an
interrupted save, and you'll find an intact copy of your stack with the
same name preceeded by "~" waiting for you in the same folder as the
"short saved" stack.

2. If the engine reports corruption and there's no such backup stack,  
see if there's a way to open the stack file, such as on a different
platform.  Look at imported images first, and with some trial and error
you can usually find the culprit in short order.

3. If you see a behavior that looks like it might be corruption but the  
engine doesn't report it as corruption it probably isn't corruption, so  
looking elsewhere at scripts and/or IDE bugs may the best way to look  
for the root cause.



On Aug 15, 2004, at 8:31 PM, Stephen McNutt wrote:

> I'm having trouble with stand-alone builds of my application.  My app  
> runs just fine within the Revolution development environment.  I'm  
> using an iMac with the latest system software.
>
> Problem A:   When I build a Windows stand-alone, it runs just fine  
> within Virtual PC 6.1 on my iMac.  When I stick it on my flash drive  
> and take it to a PC, I get generic icons (not the custom one I built  
> with IconFactory--which shows up just fine within Virtual PC) and the  
> app won't open.  I get an error message that says something about  
> initialization failing and that the error was 8, 0.
>
> Problem B:  When I build a Mac OS X stand-alone, the program opens but  
> doesn't function.  I believe I've determined that it hasn't found the  
> data files it access upon startup to get saved variable values.  I  
> wrote the following code to get it to access the data files, and this  
> code was working until a couple weeks ago:
>
>     if the environment is not "development" then
>       if the platform is "MacOS" then --Sets the default folder to the  
> correct folder within a Mac OSX bundle (package).
>         put defaultFolder into ldefaultFolder
>         put "/CQ.app/Contents/MacOS/" after lDefaultFolder
>         set the defaultFolder to lDefaultFolder
>       end if
>     end if
>
> During development, the data files are inside a folder, which itself  
> is in the same folder as the application.
>
> Anybody got any insight into what appears to be two separate problems?
>
> Thanks,
> Steve McNutt
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Aug 16 10:33:43 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:33:43 +0100
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <AD8A0250-ECCC-11D8-A110-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811231606.027e11c8@mail.tweedly.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>
 <E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
 <E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20040811231606.027e11c8@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040816151252.02763dc0@mail.tweedly.net>

At 12:01 13/08/2004 +1000, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>On 12 Aug 2004, at 8:30 am, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>>>There's a POP library available -- does it not also handle POP3?
>>
>>I'm sure it will - but I couldn't find a POP library. (so it's either not 
>>in the standard package, or it's not well documented, or it's not in a 
>>"well organized add-on").
>The POP library is mine and it's listed on VersionTracker as well as on my 
>web site which is a member of the RunRev web ring.

What's VersionTracker ? (or do I mean, where's VersionTracker ?)
Obviously, I didn't look there ...

(I just googled for it, and found www.versiontracker.com - but a Search on 
that site for "revolution pop3" finds nothing, so I'm not sure if that's 
the right place or not).

>  Googling for "Runtime Revolution POP3 library" shows it as the first entry.

But googling for "Revolution pop3" (which is what I did), doesn't find your 
page at all (at least not in the first 3 or 4 pages of results).  It does 
find mention of  Shao Sean's SMTP and POP3 stacks, but I couldn't track 
them down; one email implies they are (or were) on the runrev site, but if 
they are, they're well tucked away).

>It is not part of the standard package but it is a well-documented library 
>and I hope you will find it is well organized.

Sounds like I said it badly .... I hadn't found your library, and was not 
saying that it was badly documented. What I was saying was that:
either
   - it's not in the standard package
or
  - it's in the standard package and not well documented

and also
  - it's not in any well-organized place.
(i.e. there is no single, central place to go look for runrev add-ons, 
nothing comparable to CPAN or even www.python.org or sourceforge).

I don't think that professional development tools should require a user to 
find (standards based) libraries by going through the Web Ring and 
searching individuals' sites. I'd expect RunRev to create a central place 
to find these (probably an index, with pointers to the individual 
websites). I think "User Resources" on the runrev site should be that 
(actually, I thought for a while that it was ....)


>BTW, in answer to Richard's query, it has only been tested with POP3. I 
>haven't come across any servers using earlier versions of the POP 
>protocol, so I don't know how compatible it would be with them.

No, I doubt if there's such a thing left in the world :-)

-- Alex.

From bvg at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 10:32:02 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:32:02 +0200
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040816151252.02763dc0@mail.tweedly.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040811231606.027e11c8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040811111134.02ae7fc8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<E8FAA346-EBCC-11D8-B5DB-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040811205700.0281a1f8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040811231606.027e11c8@mail.tweedly.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040816151252.02763dc0@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <09F47FED-EF91-11D8-8D77-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>


On Aug 16 2004, at 16:33, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> ...
>
> and also
>  - it's not in any well-organized place.
> (i.e. there is no single, central place to go look for runrev add-ons, 
> nothing comparable to CPAN or even www.python.org or sourceforge).

Have you tried RevNet?

In the Revolution IDE, choose "plugins" ->> "goRevNet"

after downloading the "RevNet" stack, click on "stacks".

Both pop and smtp libraries are there.

hope that helped
Bjoernke von Gierke

<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.0.rev"


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Mon Aug 16 10:38:46 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:38:46 -0400
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <A3598C72-EF46-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<A3598C72-EF46-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <FAA8117C-EF91-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

>> Question: These records would typically be over 5000 animals with 
>> possibly 20 to 30 records each. Would I use a SQL database, XML, 
>> Arrays, or cards to store the data? (sorry, I've still a lot to 
>> learn, obviously!!!)
>
> Rev binded to Valentina (local DB) and PostgreSQL (remote DB)...
>

You could also use PostgreSQL locally and save yourself some licensing 
costs.

I would advise you NOT to store the data internally to the application, 
since you will probably want to use standalones when distributing to 
the various locations (otherwise each location would need a Rev 
license), and the data would be lost when closing the program if the 
data is stored internally in a standalone.

I would suggest (as an example) that you set up a local database at 
each location (PostgreSQL would be fine, and it is free) which would 
store the information locally, and use a central server at some other 
location to pool the data for all of the different locations together 
for the central staff.  Include a feature in the program you distribute 
to the different locations to upload any modifications to the central 
server when a connection is present.

There are of course other ways to do this, but this would be one 
example you might consider.



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
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From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug 16 10:49:12 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:49:12 -0400
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <09F47FED-EF91-11D8-8D77-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BD4641A8.26CF%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

I tried that and it just says error downloading URL rev.net.gz "check
network connection and proxy setup in preferences"

There are no such animals in the rev application preferences so I gave up...


On 8/16/04 10:32 AM, "Bj?rnke von Gierke" <bvg at mac.com> wrote:

> 
> On Aug 16 2004, at 16:33, Alex Tweedly wrote:
> 
>> ...
>> 
>> and also
>>  - it's not in any well-organized place.
>> (i.e. there is no single, central place to go look for runrev add-ons,
>> nothing comparable to CPAN or even www.python.org or sourceforge).
> 
> Have you tried RevNet?
> 
> In the Revolution IDE, choose "plugins" ->> "goRevNet"
> 
> after downloading the "RevNet" stack, click on "stacks".
> 
> Both pop and smtp libraries are there.
> 
> hope that helped
> Bjoernke von Gierke




From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon Aug 16 10:49:16 2004
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:49:16 -0400
Subject: RR Competition?
In-Reply-To: <66A0E050-EF3F-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<66A0E050-EF3F-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <72716D08-EF93-11D8-8E59-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>

Hi there,

Are these guys the competition to Revolution?

Has anyone played around with it?

Is it a threat yet?

Thanks,

Rick Harrison

See below:

HyperNext 1.3 from TigaByte Software is a visual software
development system that can help you build Macintosh applications,
plug-ins, and stacks that run on the free HyperNext Player. This
version includes new network commands and controls, such as
checkboxes, radio buttons, and popup menus. It also features
enhancements to graphical performance and REALbasic scripting.
http://www.tigabyte.com/


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug 16 10:54:20 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:54:20 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <412067D1.7090204@chipp.com>
References: <6D97CD94-EEFB-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
	<8B26A5F8-EEFE-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<412067D1.7090204@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <27760754-EF94-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 3:52 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I've seen some absolutely stunning tables created by Jerry Daniels. 
> Tables which have rows and columns which collapse and expand. Icons 
> and checkboxes are also used. In fact, I'm sure Jerry could even build 
> a table easily with progress bars as well...so I believe it's 
> possible. If this is a project for a client, you might want to 
> contract Jerry for a few hours to help you roll your own table.

Well, its good to know it can be done. I'm not sure I ever fully 
doubted that - I more doubted my own inclination to devise my own data 
grid system from the ground up starting with a field. To me it sounds 
like a lot of careful programming, and understanding the ins-and-outs 
of transcript relating to fields, etc. better than I do.

Jerry's system sounds pretty awesome, but as this program will 
initially be self-financed, I'm not sure there is room in the budget 
for a custom interface component of that calibre and scope.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Mon Aug 16 10:59:23 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:59:23 -0400
Subject: Is this a Rev bug, or what am I missing?
Message-ID: <DC6BF621-EF94-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

I am writing a custom installer program which I need for a commercial 
app I am writing.  I need to use a custom installer, because it is 
necessary to populate a database during the install process.

The database stuff seems to basically work at this point, but I am 
having trouble with code to create folders for the install process.

In the script for the card which implements the file copies, I have 
this custom handler:

on makefold what
   if there is a folder what then
     log "Found existing installation folder " & what
   else
     log "Creating installation folder " & what
     create folder what
   end if
end makefold


"log" is a custom handler in the stack script which just sticks a 
timestamp after the line of text and appends it to a log of the install 
process; this code works fine.

Now when I go to create the installation folders, I use a 
platform-specific block of "makefold" lines.  Right now I am having a 
problem with the Windows version of the code, which looks like this (I 
changed the names of the folders, obviously, but otherwise this would 
be it):

if the platform is "Win32" then
     makefold "c:/Documents and Settings"
     makefold "c:/Documents and Settings/All Users"
     makefold "c:/Documents and Settings/All Users/Start Menu"
     makefold "c:/Documents and Settings/All Users/Start Menu/Programs"
     makefold "c:/Documents and Settings/All Users/Start Menu/Programs/" 
& \
         "MyCompany"
     makefold "c:/Program Files"
     makefold "c:/Program Files/MyCompany"
     makefold "c:/Program Files/MyCompany/MyApp/"
     makefold "c:/Program Files/MyCompany/MyApp/HelpFiles"
     makefold "c:/Program Files/MyCompany/MyApp/externals"
     makefold "c:/Program Files/MyCompany/MyApp/externals/" & \
         "database_drivers"
   else if the platform is "MacOS" then
(...)



When this block of code executes, the log shows (obviously) that some 
of the above folders exist, and that others (MyCompany, for ex.) are 
being created.  However, the install fails when one of the files cannot 
be copied into one of the supposedly created folders.  When I go to 
look at what files/folders are on the disk, "externals", for example. 
was created as a *FILE* instead of a folder!  I tried deleting these 
files and my own folders (the ones specific to this program) and 
rerunning the installer, but the same problem occurs.

What am I missing here?



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
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From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Aug 16 11:00:46 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:00:46 +0200
Subject: sound in revolution nr. 666
In-Reply-To: <90ABD665-EEF6-11D8-A69B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408151129110.10474-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<90ABD665-EEF6-11D8-A69B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <0D5BDDDD-EF95-11D8-8DAF-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi all,

sorry, typo-alarm!!!

> ...
> Sample-rate in KHZ:
> 11.025

!!!
> 22.05
!!!!

> 44.1

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Mon Aug 16 11:00:37 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:00:37 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <27760754-EF94-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20040816145610.61D1F30ABB@mail.rtl.org>

Troy;

Maybe some of us can get together and share some development expense...

Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Troy Rollins
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:54 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Table fields... oh boy.


On Aug 16, 2004, at 3:52 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I've seen some absolutely stunning tables created by Jerry Daniels. 
> Tables which have rows and columns which collapse and expand. Icons 
> and checkboxes are also used. In fact, I'm sure Jerry could even build 
> a table easily with progress bars as well...so I believe it's 
> possible. If this is a project for a client, you might want to 
> contract Jerry for a few hours to help you roll your own table.

Well, its good to know it can be done. I'm not sure I ever fully doubted
that - I more doubted my own inclination to devise my own data grid system
from the ground up starting with a field. To me it sounds like a lot of
careful programming, and understanding the ins-and-outs of transcript
relating to fields, etc. better than I do.

Jerry's system sounds pretty awesome, but as this program will initially be
self-financed, I'm not sure there is room in the budget for a custom
interface component of that calibre and scope.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From bvg at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 11:21:13 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:21:13 +0200
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <BD4641A8.26CF%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD4641A8.26CF%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <E8E5CE57-EF97-11D8-8D77-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>

You can set the proxy by script, type this into your message box:

set the HTTPProxy to "127.0.0.0:80"

watch out to use the proper IP.



On Aug 16 2004, at 16:49, Bill wrote:

> I tried that and it just says error downloading URL rev.net.gz "check
> network connection and proxy setup in preferences"
>
> There are no such animals in the rev application preferences so I gave 
> up...
>
>
> On 8/16/04 10:32 AM, "Bj?rnke von Gierke" <bvg at mac.com> wrote:
>> In the Revolution IDE, choose "plugins" ->> "goRevNet"
>>
>> after downloading the "RevNet" stack, click on "stacks".
>>
>> Both pop and smtp libraries are there.
>>
>> hope that helped
>> Bjoernke von Gierke

<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.0.rev"


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Aug 16 11:29:29 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:29:29 -0500
Subject: Is this a Rev bug, or what am I missing?
In-Reply-To: <DC6BF621-EF94-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <BD463D09.3FC0%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/16/04 9:59 AM, "Frank D. Engel, Jr." <fde101 at fjrhome.net> wrote:

> on makefold what
>    if there is a folder what then
>      log "Found existing installation folder " & what
>    else
>      log "Creating installation folder " & what
>      create folder what
>    end if
> end makefold

> When this block of code executes, the log shows (obviously) that some
> of the above folders exist, and that others (MyCompany, for ex.) are
> being created.  However, the install fails when one of the files cannot
> be copied into one of the supposedly created folders.  When I go to
> look at what files/folders are on the disk, "externals", for example.
> was created as a *FILE* instead of a folder!  I tried deleting these
> files and my own folders (the ones specific to this program) and
> rerunning the installer, but the same problem occurs.
> 
> What am I missing here?

Well, if sometimes it creates folders and sometimes it creates files, it
sounds like a bug to me. Can you nail it down to one line that is definitely
not working? If so, let us know and we'll try it on our PCs and attempt to
corroborate your findings.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Mon Aug 16 11:41:20 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:41:20 EDT
Subject: Is this a Rev bug, or what am I missing? 
Message-ID: <19e.2816d34e.2e522fa0@aol.com>

 
 
Frank:

on  makefold what
if there is a folder what then
log "Found existing installation folder " &  what
else
log "Creating installation  folder " & what
create folder what
end if
end makefold


When this block of code executes, the log  shows (obviously) that some 
of the above folders exist, and that others  (MyCompany, for ex.) are 
being created.  However, the install fails  when one of the files cannot 
be copied into one of the supposedly created  folders.  When I go to 
look at what files/folders are on the disk,  "externals", for example. 
was created as a *FILE* instead of a  folder!  I tried deleting these 
files and my own folders (the ones  specific to this program) and 
rerunning the installer, but the same  problem occurs.

What am I missing here?


Short answer looks like you are not trapping unsuccessful create  directory 
commands, relying on a log which is not subject to its success or  failure.
 
/H
 
Hugh  Senior
The Flexible Learning Company
Web: _www.FlexibleLearning.com_ (http://www.flexiblelearning.com/) 
E: _h at flexiblelearning.com_ (mailto:h at flexiblelearning.com) 
T/F:  +44(0)1483.27 87 27

From moe2 at shaw.ca  Mon Aug 16 11:43:17 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:43:17 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading
In-Reply-To: <8.54c16843.2e511a99@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD462425.700A%moe2@shaw.ca>


> 
> 'Cascade' has a specific meaning in Revolution (it  is a reserved token for a
> menuMode) and is not necessarily synonymous with  'hierarchical' (which can
> refer to pulldown menus as well). This can lead  to confusion and was one of
> the reasons for misunderstandings from your original  post.
> 
> /H

thank you for this response ... this is helpful

moe


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug 16 11:53:18 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:53:18 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <20040816145610.61D1F30ABB@mail.rtl.org>
References: <20040816145610.61D1F30ABB@mail.rtl.org>
Message-ID: <646AD220-EF9C-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 11:00 AM, Dave LeYanna wrote:

> Maybe some of us can get together and share some development expense...

Interesting idea.

In a certain regard, I thought we already had.  :-(

Worth considering, tho'.

In the meantime, if you haven't voted for #670, I encourage you to do 
so.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Mon Aug 16 11:55:51 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:55:51 -0400
Subject: Is this a Rev bug, or what am I missing? 
In-Reply-To: <19e.2816d34e.2e522fa0@aol.com>
References: <19e.2816d34e.2e522fa0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BFD108BC-EF9C-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

How do I check that though?  Where are errors in the "create folder" 
statement reported?

Would "the result" provide that?  The documentation does not seem clear 
on this.

I suppose I could always check again (if there is a folder what then) 
after the "create folder" statement, but if there is a result code, I 
would prefer to use that.

I will try this, I suppose, and see what I am getting back as a result.

On Aug 16, 2004, at 11:41, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:

>
>
> Frank:
>
> on  makefold what
> if there is a folder what then
> log "Found existing installation folder " &  what
> else
> log "Creating installation  folder " & what
> create folder what
> end if
> end makefold
>
>
> When this block of code executes, the log  shows (obviously) that some
> of the above folders exist, and that others  (MyCompany, for ex.) are
> being created.  However, the install fails  when one of the files 
> cannot
> be copied into one of the supposedly created  folders.  When I go to
> look at what files/folders are on the disk,  "externals", for example.
> was created as a *FILE* instead of a  folder!  I tried deleting these
> files and my own folders (the ones  specific to this program) and
> rerunning the installer, but the same  problem occurs.
>
> What am I missing here?
>
>
> Short answer looks like you are not trapping unsuccessful create  
> directory
> commands, relying on a log which is not subject to its success or  
> failure.
>
> /H
>
> Hugh  Senior
> The Flexible Learning Company
> Web: _www.FlexibleLearning.com_ (http://www.flexiblelearning.com/)
> E: _h at flexiblelearning.com_ (mailto:h at flexiblelearning.com)
> T/F:  +44(0)1483.27 87 27
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



___________________________________________________________
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10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
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From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug 16 12:03:20 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:03:20 -0400
Subject: Strange invisible error
In-Reply-To: <27760754-EF94-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD465308.26DC%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>


Put "birth, nick, notes, board" into tData

Put "birth, nick, notes, board" into tData

Those two lines above look exactly alike but the first one gives an error
and the second line does not. The first line is a cut and paste from data
generated by my program and the second I typed by hand. There must be an
invisible character in there. Also if I cut and paste the lines in and out
of BBEdit to the message box in runrev the first line will only paste as far
as Put "

Even weirder if I type in Bbedit a replacement over the word "birth" then it
will allow me to cut and paste just as far as

Put "birth,

This is the weirdest error I have ever seen...

Script compile error:
Error description: Script: missing '"' after literal



When I run zap gremlins in Bedit I get:

Put "?birth, ?nick, ?notes,? board" into tData


----
I am now trying to figure out where the invisible character (some kind of
line feed maybe???) is coming from. It is possible that when this email is
sent that the invisible character will get converted to something. I am on
MAC OS X






From moe2 at shaw.ca  Mon Aug 16 12:02:29 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:02:29 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <411FE0C4.4040908@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BD4628A5.7058%moe2@shaw.ca>



i will post to Bugzilla ... along with my prioritized list of other RR
features which i am concerned with ... as soon as i feel that i understand
RR sufficiently. i am an old HC'er working my way through the RR trial
version

Richard, thank you for all your comments
   ... and thanks to the others that participated in this thread

thank you for update that there is a v2.5 version release
   ... i look forward to purchasing this!

moe


> on 2004/08/15 3:16 PM, Richard Gaskin at ambassador at fourthworld.com wrote:
>
> If you'll kindly post your note to Bugzilla with the fix Scott Kinder
> posted here yesterday, chances are good that Monte will update the docs
> in time for the v2.5 release.


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Mon Aug 16 12:12:38 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:12:38 EDT
Subject: Is this a Rev bug, or what am I missing?
Message-ID: <1e2.2821e848.2e5236f6@aol.com>

log "Creating installation  folder " & what
create folder  what
if the result <>"" then log "Creating installation folder  err:" & the result

Let us know the outcome, Frank.

----- Original post -----
How do I check that though?  Where are  errors in the "create folder" 
statement reported?

Would "the result"  provide that?  The documentation does not seem clear 
on this.

I  suppose I could always check again (if there is a folder what then) 
after  the "create folder" statement, but if there is a result code, I 
would prefer  to use that.

I will try this, I suppose, and see what I am getting back  as a result.
----------
 
/H
 

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 16 12:14:01 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:14:01 -0700
Subject: Strange invisible error
In-Reply-To: <BD465308.26DC%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <494618A7-EF9F-11D8-8FD5-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Monday, August 16, 2004, at 09:03 AM, Bill wrote:

>
> Put "birth, nick, notes, board" into tData
>
> Put "birth, nick, notes, board" into tData
>
> Those two lines above look exactly alike but the first one gives an 
> error
> and the second line does not. The first line is a cut and paste from 
> data
> generated by my program and the second I typed by hand. There must be 
> an
> invisible character in there. Also if I cut and paste the lines in and 
> out
> of BBEdit to the message box in runrev the first line will only paste 
> as far
> as Put "

What happens if you paste from BBEdit to TextEdit then copy TextEdit 
and paste to Rev?

Mark


From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Aug 16 12:15:07 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 18:15:07 +0200
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <FAA8117C-EF91-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<A3598C72-EF46-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<FAA8117C-EF91-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <704A328F-EF9F-11D8-95F6-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 16 ao?t 04, ? 16:38, Frank D. Engel, Jr. a ?crit :

>>> Question: These records would typically be over 5000 animals with 
>>> possibly 20 to 30 records each. Would I use a SQL database, XML, 
>>> Arrays, or cards to store the data? (sorry, I've still a lot to 
>>> learn, obviously!!!)
>>
>> Rev binded to Valentina (local DB) and PostgreSQL (remote DB)...
>>
>
> You could also use PostgreSQL locally and save yourself some licensing 
> costs.

Why didn't i think at this. Tied, probably ;-!  Thanks, Frank for 
pointing us in this direction ;)

100 times true, even for a newbie under MacOS X in getting the cool 
Marc Liyanage's installer at

<http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosxpostgresql>

  or under Windows in using the PostgreSQL Beta 8.0 and the windows 
dedicated tools coming with it at

<http://www.postgresql.org> and <http://pgreplicator.sourceforge.net/>

I'm using PG all the time under both Linux and MacOS X (can help) but 
havn't begin to test and work with the replicator for yet (can't help).
>
> I would advise you NOT to store the data internally to the 
> application, since you will probably want to use standalones when 
> distributing to the various locations (otherwise each location would 
> need a Rev license), and the data would be lost when closing the 
> program if the data is stored internally in a standalone.

Same...
>
> I would suggest (as an example) that you set up a local database at 
> each location (PostgreSQL would be fine, and it is free) which would 
> store the information locally, and use a central server at some other 
> location to pool the data for all of the different locations together 
> for the central staff.  Include a feature in the program you 
> distribute to the different locations to upload any modifications to 
> the central server when a connection is present.

Same again ;)
>
> There are of course other ways to do this, but this would be one 
> example you might consider.
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
> 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
> Signup at www.doteasy.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 16 12:22:53 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:22:53 -0400
Subject: RR Competition?
In-Reply-To: <72716D08-EF93-11D8-8E59-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<66A0E050-EF3F-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<72716D08-EF93-11D8-8E59-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <86212D93-EFA0-11D8-A030-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Unless I am missing something, this is Mac only.  Who wants to create 
apps that are Mac only, when the majority of the market out there is 
still Windows?

Don't get me wrong, I love my Mac, insist on my apps being available on 
Mac OS 9 and OS X and wouldn't consider designing/programming my apps 
on a Windows machine.  It's just that the ability to create 
crossplatform apps is a crucial part of what I need and I think that's 
true of others, as well.

Even if there were no Revolution out there, I wouldn't even consider 
this until they have at least a Windows player. And then, I would need 
to see that Windows player actually WORK with my stacks (apropos of the 
text line-up problems reported here and elsewhere when apps made for 
one platform are ported to the other).  If it looks pretty on Mac and I 
have no way to make it look pretty in Win player then it's dead in the 
water.

My 2 pfennings.

M

On Aug 16, 2004, at 10:49 AM, Rick Harrison wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Are these guys the competition to Revolution?
>
> Has anyone played around with it?
>
> Is it a threat yet?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick Harrison
>
> See below:
>
> HyperNext 1.3 from TigaByte Software is a visual software
> development system that can help you build Macintosh applications,
> plug-ins, and stacks that run on the free HyperNext Player. This
> version includes new network commands and controls, such as
> checkboxes, radio buttons, and popup menus. It also features
> enhancements to graphical performance and REALbasic scripting.
> http://www.tigabyte.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug 16 12:42:08 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:42:08 -0400
Subject: Strange invisible error
In-Reply-To: <494618A7-EF9F-11D8-8FD5-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BD465C20.26F8%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

Text edit will only allow a paste of the part of the line past the strange
invisible charactors. When you paste into text edit the other part of the
line disappears.

I found two more interesting things:

1. The invisible characters are only from fields that I manually entered
test data in. The other fields which got data from my MySQL database do not
have the strange characters.

2. (this is really weird) a commented out line in a runrev script that has
these characters in it will still generate errors.


On 8/16/04 12:14 PM, "Mark Brownell" <gizmotron at earthlink.net> wrote:

> 
> On Monday, August 16, 2004, at 09:03 AM, Bill wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Put "birth, nick, notes, board" into tData
>> 
>> Put "birth, nick, notes, board" into tData
>> 
>> Those two lines above look exactly alike but the first one gives an
>> error
>> and the second line does not. The first line is a cut and paste from
>> data
>> generated by my program and the second I typed by hand. There must be
>> an
>> invisible character in there. Also if I cut and paste the lines in and
>> out
>> of BBEdit to the message box in runrev the first line will only paste
>> as far
>> as Put "
> 
> What happens if you paste from BBEdit to TextEdit then copy TextEdit
> and paste to Rev?
> 
> Mark
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 12:40:48 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:40:48 -0300
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <704A328F-EF9F-11D8-95F6-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<A3598C72-EF46-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<FAA8117C-EF91-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<704A328F-EF9F-11D8-95F6-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <0727D0EF-EFA3-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 1:15 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

>>
>> You could also use PostgreSQL locally and save yourself some 
>> licensing costs.
>
> Why didn't i think at this. Tied, probably ;-!  Thanks, Frank for 
> pointing us in this direction ;)
>
> 100 times true, even for a newbie under MacOS X in getting the cool 
> Marc Liyanage's installer at
>
> <http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosxpostgresql>
>
>

Folks,

beware that maybe, the end user is not inclined to mantain a PostgreSQL 
instalation on his home machine.  For example, a simple normal user 
wants to create a blog. He can use Movable Type which is great, but to 
use it, he need MySQL, Apache and PHP. The mac comes with apache and 
there are installer packages for PHP and MySQL at Marc Liynages page 
but the normal user will be intimidated by the proceess, and also, a 
RDBMS is not something that you leave unatended. The user might by 
fiddling with his system, prevent PostgreSQL to run at startup without 
even knowing that he did this, then when launching Paul app, the app 
will fail and the user will have no clue on what to do!!!

Normal, plain users, the ones that just want to use a computer, not to 
understand a computer, should not be forced to install and mantain a 
complex thing like MySQL/PostgreSQL. I know the installers are pretty 
much forward, but I hope that I am being clear, it's like giving a 18 
wheel truck to a teenager who just got his car license and saying: "go 
to the bakery, bring me bread.". If the teenager is carefull enough, 
things will work out, but a single mistake...

The big advantage of Valentina is that: there's no instalation 
proccess, there's no maintanance, in fact it will all be inside the mac 
bundle, he might not even see the vdb files. You'll spend $300 now, but 
the chance that this will free you from hours of support and pain are 
very good, and you can always use it on other projects as well!

Cheers
andre

PS: no, I don't have a Valentina license, I am saving for one or for 
SQLite.

-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug 16 12:46:27 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:46:27 -0400
Subject: Strange invisible error characters
In-Reply-To: <494618A7-EF9F-11D8-8FD5-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BD465D23.26FA%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

Also I note from your email reply that the strange characters did not
survive a passage through the email. Both lines in the email below do not
have the evil characters.

I think I may have to run some kind of char to num function for each
character in the field to try to find out what they are and where they are
coming from. I was surprised to find that it wasn't from the MySQL.


On 8/16/04 12:14 PM, "Mark Brownell" <gizmotron at earthlink.net> wrote:

> 
> On Monday, August 16, 2004, at 09:03 AM, Bill wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Put "birth, nick, notes, board" into tData
>> 
>> Put "birth, nick, notes, board" into tData
>> 
>> Those two lines above look exactly alike but the first one gives an
>> error
>> and the second line does not. The first line is a cut and paste from
>> data
>> generated by my program and the second I typed by hand. There must be
>> an
>> invisible character in there. Also if I cut and paste the lines in and
>> out
>> of BBEdit to the message box in runrev the first line will only paste
>> as far
>> as Put "
> 
> What happens if you paste from BBEdit to TextEdit then copy TextEdit
> and paste to Rev?
> 
> Mark
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug 16 12:49:43 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:49:43 -0400
Subject: Strange invisible charactors
In-Reply-To: <494618A7-EF9F-11D8-8FD5-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BD465DE7.26FB%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

BBEdit has a "replace with code" function and gives this:

'\0x00birth','\0x00nick','\0x00notes',

So what does \0x00 mean?


On 8/16/04 12:14 PM, "Mark Brownell" <gizmotron at earthlink.net> wrote:

> 
> On Monday, August 16, 2004, at 09:03 AM, Bill wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Put "birth, nick, notes, board" into tData
>> 
>> Put "birth, nick, notes, board" into tData
>> 
>> Those two lines above look exactly alike but the first one gives an
>> error
>> and the second line does not. The first line is a cut and paste from
>> data
>> generated by my program and the second I typed by hand. There must be
>> an
>> invisible character in there. Also if I cut and paste the lines in and
>> out
>> of BBEdit to the message box in runrev the first line will only paste
>> as far
>> as Put "
> 
> What happens if you paste from BBEdit to TextEdit then copy TextEdit
> and paste to Rev?
> 
> Mark
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Aug 14 04:13:12 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 03:13:12 -0500
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
	<CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <411DC998.2000401@chipp.com>

I either use locked fields, then do 'ask' when you click a cell (not the 
cleanest of interfaces, but I don't use it often), or do as Jerry 
Daniels demo'ed at Rev Summit, create a 'table group' of fields.

Table groups can actually be very fast, especially if you have a fixed 
number of rows to display (vs rows of data). You can use a fixed number 
of flds to scroll through many more rows than are actually displayed. 
Think of a table group as a 'window' onto the data, and you'll get what 
I'm talking about.

Jerry actually has a fairly modular table group object he uses. Course 
right now his head is buried in Constellation, his new script/property 
editor/debugger.



Troy Rollins wrote:

> What do you use? The other two options you mention? Or something else?



From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug 16 13:05:02 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:05:02 -0400
Subject: Table fields... oh boy.
In-Reply-To: <411DC998.2000401@chipp.com>
References: <FE8C68B5-ED94-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DADDD.2010306@chipp.com>
	<CE0C062A-EDBA-11D8-A6DB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<411DC998.2000401@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <69F9233E-EFA6-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 14, 2004, at 4:13 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Table groups can actually be very fast, especially if you have a fixed  
> number of rows to display (vs rows of data). You can use a fixed  
> number of flds to scroll through many more rows than are actually  
> displayed. Think of a table group as a 'window' onto the data, and  
> you'll get what I'm talking about.

Yes, I see what you mean. That *is* an interesting approach. Doesn't  
lend itself to scaling with a window of course, but overall it is  
another idea worth examining to be sure.

(I'll take the opportunity to plug #670 again including a super easy  
link to follow.)
<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi? 
id=670>

98 votes so far!
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug 16 12:53:20 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:53:20 -0400
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <0727D0EF-EFA3-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<A3598C72-EF46-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<FAA8117C-EF91-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<704A328F-EF9F-11D8-95F6-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<0727D0EF-EFA3-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C73B5282-EFA4-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 12:40 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> The big advantage of Valentina is that: there's no instalation 
> proccess, there's no maintanance, in fact it will all be inside the 
> mac bundle, he might not even see the vdb files. You'll spend $300 
> now, but the chance that this will free you from hours of support and 
> pain are very good, and you can always use it on other projects as 
> well!

Also, another upcoming option with be SQLite. Though we don't yet know 
what the price of that option will be.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 13:17:17 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:17:17 -0300
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <C73B5282-EFA4-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<A3598C72-EF46-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<FAA8117C-EF91-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<704A328F-EF9F-11D8-95F6-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<0727D0EF-EFA3-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<C73B5282-EFA4-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <1FBBF986-EFA8-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 1:53 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> Also, another upcoming option with be SQLite. Though we don't yet know 
> what the price of that option will be.

Yes, I am eager to look into SQLite, thats why I didn't bought a 
valentina license yet...

Cheers
andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug 16 13:36:48 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:36:48 -1000
Subject: Standalone failure for Mac PPC 9.2
In-Reply-To: <p06110404bd460666fd05@[10.0.0.1]>
References: <64670436-EF44-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<p06110404bd460666fd05@[10.0.0.1]>
Message-ID: <D9B6AAC6-EFAA-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Yes, it was compressed as .sit   but it unstuffs to the point of 
appearing correctly on the desk top as  an unstuffed .rev file... then 
unexpectedly quits on boot.. (in classic)

Are you say that even if it unstuffs and outputs an apparently 
unstuffed file that an old Stuffit could have created a bad file?... 
OK, will just have to try it.

As for Monte's and Andre's recommendations... it doesn't even get that 
far..

Thanks.


On Aug 15, 2004, at 8:37 PM, sims wrote:

> How do I diagnose and solve this problem? I only need to focus on a) 
> above for now (mac, classic PPC) because  the Windows user bailed on 
> the project out of frustration...
>
>
> Was it compressed as an ".sit"?
> If so maybe an updated of stuffit is needed.
>
> atb
> sims


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Aug 16 13:39:32 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:39:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sound in revolution nr. 666
In-Reply-To: <412094F1.6070803@wilddsl.net.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408161038530.819-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Application browser?

(You can also delete the perhaps many improperly imported files there...
as you can tell, I've had to do this myself!)

Judy

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Bruce Laidlaw wrote:

> Oooooooops!! Sorry! :(
>
> I didn't import the wav sound properly. Now I have, it works in Mac and
> Windows.
>
> BTW, I can't see any way of checking what audio files have been imported
> into a stack. Where do I look?


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Aug 16 13:42:52 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:42:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RR Competition?
In-Reply-To: <72716D08-EF93-11D8-8E59-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408161042040.819-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I dunno, but when last I looked (maybe 6 mo. to 1 year ago?) it looked
pretty raw...  even for me @;-)

Judy

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Rick Harrison wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Are these guys the competition to Revolution?

<snip>

> HyperNext 1.3 from TigaByte Software is a visual software
> development system that can help you build Macintosh applications,
> plug-ins, and stacks that run on the free HyperNext Player. This
> version includes new network commands and controls, such as
> checkboxes, radio buttons, and popup menus. It also features
> enhancements to graphical performance and REALbasic scripting.
> http://www.tigabyte.com/


From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Aug 16 14:03:04 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:03:04 +0200
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <0727D0EF-EFA3-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<A3598C72-EF46-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<FAA8117C-EF91-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<704A328F-EF9F-11D8-95F6-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<0727D0EF-EFA3-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <85717EA9-EFAE-11D8-8757-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hello Andre,

This point of vue is usefull too ;) Because i'm with Postgres as in 
Sancho's 'Tiags, i forget, some times that any body don't need nor like 
my second prefered shoes, after the Rev's ones, naturally ;D

With you, back to the previous proposal : Valentina as local DB and 
Postgres as the remote centralisation's one. And in this way, as you 
previously spoked about in the same thread, it will be usefull to take 
care in about fine designing the ways the local to remote and the 
remote to local updates will have to be handled...

Best, Pierre

Le 16 ao?t 04, ? 18:40, Andre Garzia a ?crit :

>
> On Aug 16, 2004, at 1:15 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>>>
>>> You could also use PostgreSQL locally and save yourself some 
>>> licensing costs.
>>
>> Why didn't i think at this. Tied, probably ;-!  Thanks, Frank for 
>> pointing us in this direction ;)
>>
>> 100 times true, even for a newbie under MacOS X in getting the cool 
>> Marc Liyanage's installer at
>>
>> <http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosxpostgresql>
>>
>>
>
> Folks,
>
> beware that maybe, the end user is not inclined to mantain a 
> PostgreSQL instalation on his home machine.  For example, a simple 
> normal user wants to create a blog. He can use Movable Type which is 
> great, but to use it, he need MySQL, Apache and PHP. The mac comes 
> with apache and there are installer packages for PHP and MySQL at Marc 
> Liynages page but the normal user will be intimidated by the proceess, 
> and also, a RDBMS is not something that you leave unatended. The user 
> might by fiddling with his system, prevent PostgreSQL to run at 
> startup without even knowing that he did this, then when launching 
> Paul app, the app will fail and the user will have no clue on what to 
> do!!!
>
> Normal, plain users, the ones that just want to use a computer, not to 
> understand a computer, should not be forced to install and mantain a 
> complex thing like MySQL/PostgreSQL. I know the installers are pretty 
> much forward, but I hope that I am being clear, it's like giving a 18 
> wheel truck to a teenager who just got his car license and saying: "go 
> to the bakery, bring me bread.". If the teenager is carefull enough, 
> things will work out, but a single mistake...
>
> The big advantage of Valentina is that: there's no instalation 
> proccess, there's no maintanance, in fact it will all be inside the 
> mac bundle, he might not even see the vdb files. You'll spend $300 
> now, but the chance that this will free you from hours of support and 
> pain are very good, and you can always use it on other projects as 
> well!
>
> Cheers
> andre
>
> PS: no, I don't have a Valentina license, I am saving for one or for 
> SQLite.
>
> -- 
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 16 14:12:19 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:12:19 -0700
Subject: Strange invisible error
In-Reply-To: <BD465C20.26F8%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <CFAFEB2C-EFAF-11D8-B283-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Monday, August 16, 2004, at 09:42 AM, Bill wrote:

> 1. The invisible characters are only from fields that I manually 
> entered
> test data in. The other fields which got data from my MySQL database 
> do not
> have the strange characters.


You might be copying the richtext of the text field. If you put the 
clipboard data into a var and ask for the text of the va,r (put the 
text of myVar into cleanMyVar), an put that back into the clipboard 
then it might clean it.

Mark


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 14:14:25 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:14:25 -0300
Subject: Question about Rev app on remote X11.
Message-ID: <1B0D5746-EFB0-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I am with a friend considering Rev for creating some special apps for 
an enterprize, the problem is, the app will run on server, and it 
should be displayed on remote xterminals. The dumb terminals got a 
XFree86 running in there, and the server will pipe the display there... 
anyone tried running rev apps from remote yet? Will I be the first one?

Cheers
andre
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Aug 16 14:38:25 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:38:25 +0100
Subject: Strange invisible error
In-Reply-To: <BD465308.26DC%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <27760754-EF94-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040816193508.0271a558@mail.tweedly.net>

At 12:03 16/08/2004 -0400, Bill wrote:


>Put "birth, nick, notes, board" into tData
>
>Put "birth, nick, notes, board" into tData
>
>Those two lines above look exactly alike but the first one gives an error
>and the second line does not. The first line is a cut and paste from data
>generated by my program and the second I typed by hand. There must be an
>invisible character in there. Also if I cut and paste the lines in and out
>of BBEdit to the message box in runrev the first line will only paste as far
>as Put "

Those two lines above looked the same in my email, BUT ...


>When I run zap gremlins in Bedit I get:
>
>Put "?birth, ?nick, ?notes,? board" into tData

This line shows up with  euro (currency) symbols on my machine (Windows, 
European), and those characters are reported (by hexdump) as being char 128.

I think, as you said in subsequent email, a char to num conversion and test 
is called for ...

-- Alex.

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Aug 16 14:44:35 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:44:35 -0700
Subject: RR Competition?
In-Reply-To: <86212D93-EFA0-11D8-A030-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
 <66A0E050-EF3F-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
 <72716D08-EF93-11D8-8E59-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
 <86212D93-EFA0-11D8-A030-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1286326797.20040816114435@ahsoftware.net>

Marian-

Agreed. The web site says there's a Windows version in development,
but I fell for that line once before when SuperCard said it...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Aug 16 15:07:58 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:07:58 +0100
Subject: Strange invisible charactors
In-Reply-To: <20040816182654.D6587930112@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040816182654.D6587930112@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <95F623EE-EFB7-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 7:26 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> Subject: Re: Strange invisible charactors
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <BD465DE7.26FB%bill at bluewatermaritime.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
> BBEdit has a "replace with code" function and gives this:
>
> '\0x00birth','\0x00nick','\0x00notes',
>
> So what does \0x00 mean?
>

It looks almost like the first character of each word is a Unicode 
character (with the upper byte being 0 (0x00 is hex zero)) -- but why 
that would be is beyond me.

-- Frank

Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 16 15:26:29 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:26:29 -0400
Subject: RR Competition?
In-Reply-To: <1286326797.20040816114435@ahsoftware.net>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<66A0E050-EF3F-11D8-914D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<72716D08-EF93-11D8-8E59-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>
	<86212D93-EFA0-11D8-A030-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<1286326797.20040816114435@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <2CA27B86-EFBA-11D8-A030-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

You read my mind ;-)

On Aug 16, 2004, at 2:44 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Marian-
>
> Agreed. The web site says there's a Windows version in development,
> but I fell for that line once before when SuperCard said it...
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From RGould8 at aol.com  Mon Aug 16 15:31:08 2004
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:31:08 EDT
Subject: Way to pass Rev variables to javascript?
Message-ID: <1eb.27c0a77f.2e52657c@aol.com>

I've got a Revolution application that is designed to run off of a CD, 
without installing anything to the user's hard-drive.   Part of this application 
requires that I launch Internet Explorer to an .htm file that's stored on the CD.

My client has thrown a monkey-wrench into the situation by requesting that 
one of the links within that CD-ROM-based .htm file be dynamically changed via a 
variable in Revolution.   I'm trying to think of ways to do this - - - the 
only thing I can think to do is:

1)   Somehow get a Revolution variable passed into IE as a javascript 
variable, which is then used by that CD-ROM-based .htm file.

or

2)   Write the variable to the user's hard-drive (a cookie perhaps?), that 
then gets read by the CD-ROM-based .htm file, and acted upon.

or

3)   Copy the .htm file from the user's CD-ROM drive into a temp folder on 
their hard-drive, and then use Rev's text-editing ability to alter the htm file. 
  Then have Rev launch the .htm file from this temp directory instead of from 
the CD.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

- Rob

From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Aug 16 15:37:34 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:37:34 -0600
Subject: Way to pass Rev variables to javascript?
In-Reply-To: <1eb.27c0a77f.2e52657c@aol.com>
References: <1eb.27c0a77f.2e52657c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8EF3D11-EFBB-11D8-81FD-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 1:31 PM, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> 1)   Somehow get a Revolution variable passed into IE as a javascript
> variable, which is then used by that CD-ROM-based .htm file.

It is possible to execute javascript in IE via appleScript, I think.  
Whether the variable will live beyond that execution, I can only guess.

Dar

****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************

A fool and his money are soon partying.
                   -- Unknown


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 16 15:41:37 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:41:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Way to pass Rev variables to javascript?
In-Reply-To: <1eb.27c0a77f.2e52657c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040816194137.91232.qmail@web60506.mail.yahoo.com>

--- RGould8 at aol.com wrote:
> I've got a Revolution application that is designed
> to run off of a CD, 
> without installing anything to the user's
> hard-drive.   Part of this application 
> requires that I launch Internet Explorer to an .htm
> file that's stored on the CD.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 3)   Copy the .htm file from the user's CD-ROM drive
> into a temp folder on 
> their hard-drive, and then use Rev's text-editing
> ability to alter the htm file. 
>   Then have Rev launch the .htm file from this temp
> directory instead of from 
> the CD.
> 
> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
> 
> - Rob
> 

Hi Rob,

>From experience, number 3 is the best solution ; check
out the 'tempName' function as well as the 'merge'
function to make your life easy for altering the file
content.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From sims at ezpzapps.com  Mon Aug 16 15:55:36 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:55:36 +0200
Subject: Standalone failure for Mac PPC 9.2
In-Reply-To: <D9B6AAC6-EFAA-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <64670436-EF44-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
 <p06110404bd460666fd05@[10.0.0.1]>
 <D9B6AAC6-EFAA-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <p06110416bd46c115fca1@[10.0.0.1]>

>Yes, it was compressed as .sit   but it unstuffs to the point of 
>appearing correctly on the desk top as  an unstuffed .rev file... 
>then unexpectedly quits on boot.. (in classic)
>
>Are you say that even if it unstuffs and outputs an apparently 
>unstuffed file that an old Stuffit could have created a bad file?... 
>OK, will just have to try it.


I had this issue a while back...cannot remember whether I needed to update
Expander or DropStuff but one of them produced the symptoms you describe.

hth
sims
EuroRevCon     http://TechieTours.com/Rev

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 16 15:49:08 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:49:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Database linked controls
In-Reply-To: <BD3DAB18.23EC%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <20040816194908.42675.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Bill <bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote:
> 
> What is the message sent when a newly opened,
> connected, stack finishes
> making a connection to the database?
> 

Hi Bill,

As far as I can tell, so far nobody has replied to
this question ; the answer depends largely on your
connection settings :
- if you open all connections for the queries when the
stack opens, then you'll get the 'openStack' message
after the connection has been made.
- if you open a connection for a query when the card
opens, then you'll get the 'openCard' message after
the connection has been opened.
- however, Revolution does its best to 'cache'
connections , so if you have a query A which is opened
when the stack opens, and all the settings of query B
are the same, then it will use the connection that is
already open.

Hope this clarified it a bit,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo 

From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 15:56:15 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:56:15 -0300
Subject: Way to pass Rev variables to javascript?
In-Reply-To: <1eb.27c0a77f.2e52657c@aol.com>
References: <1eb.27c0a77f.2e52657c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <54D0D9E6-EFBE-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 4:31 PM, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

>
> 3)   Copy the .htm file from the user's CD-ROM drive into a temp 
> folder on
> their hard-drive, and then use Rev's text-editing ability to alter the 
> htm file.
>   Then have Rev launch the .htm file from this temp directory instead 
> of from
> the CD.
>
> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>
> - Rob
>

Rob,

I would go with option three, I would put a dummy link placeholder on 
the html like %DUMMYLINK%. Copy it to memory, and use

replace "%DUMMYLINK%" with "http://whatever.com" in tHTML

then I would write that thing to temp and launch the file.

andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From nnoydb at excite.com  Mon Aug 16 16:05:19 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:05:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question about Rev app on remote X11.
Message-ID: <20040816200519.815DB8AEB8@xprdmailfe2.nwk.excite.com>


Below is a posting I sent some time ago in reference to using RR stand-alones in a cluster environment.  A RR stand-alone should observe the $DISPALY environment variable and if envoked from a remote termial display on that terminal. Another alterative is to use the "--display" commmand line parameter (shown below) which will cause the stad-alone to ignore the $DISPLAY environment variable and use the specified display.


Kevin

=============================================================================
ORGINAL POSTING
=============================================================================



Cluster GUI

solution it is messy but gets the job done.

Create a user with very little access for my purposes I will call it 'clustergui'. 

Manually execute vncserver and set the vnc password to something very secure!

Create a init.d script (or use the one below) to initialize a vncserver secession (protected by local firewall) for user 'clustergui'.  

Add 127.0.0.1 aka locahost to your system xhost (this gives 127.0.0.1 aka localhost the right to mount the gui you just created).

Execute the program like so:

rrprogram -display 127.0.0.1:<display#> 

Note: You can set the DISPLAY environment varaible to 127.0.0.1:<display#> for entire cluster.

Because the firewall is protecting the VNC secession (preventing anyone from connecting) the secession will utilize little processor.  I also configured the ~/.vnc/xstartup to use 'twm' as the window manager (significantly lowering the memory foot-print).  Using it in this manner allows ALL GUI applications to have a X secession (not just RR standalones).  In fact I am now using matlab with bitmap function (which require X) on my cluster.

I am also using this method for my cron/console (dual mode) execution.

The scripts I used to create the secession is below.

Hope this is helpful,

Kevin



#!/bin/bash
#
# chkconfig: - 91 35
# description: Starts and stops vncserver. \
#              used to provide remote X administration services.

# Source function library.
. /etc/init.d/functions

# Source networking configuration.
. /etc/sysconfig/network

# Check that networking is up.
[ ${NETWORKING} = "no" ] && exit 0

VNCSERVERS=""
[ -f /etc/sysconfig/vncservers ] && . /etc/sysconfig/vncservers

prog=$"VNC server"

start() {
    echo -n $"Starting $prog: "
    ulimit -S -c 0 >/dev/null 2>&1
    RETVAL=0
    for display in ${VNCSERVERS}
    do
        echo -n "${display} "
        unset BASH_ENV ENV
        initlog $INITLOG_ARGS -c \
            "su ${display##*:} -l -c \"cd ~${display##*:} && [ -f .vnc/passwd ] && vncserver :${display%%:*}\""
        RETVAL=$?
        [ "$RETVAL" -ne 0 ] && break
    done
    [ "$RETVAL" -eq 0 ] && success $"vncserver startup" || \
        failure $"vncserver start"
    echo
    [ "$RETVAL" -eq 0 ] && touch /var/lock/subsys/vncserver
}

stop() {
    echo -n $"Shutting down $prog: "
    for display in ${VNCSERVERS}
    do
        echo -n "${display} "
        unset BASH_ENV ENV
        initlog $INITLOG_ARGS -c \
            "su ${display##*:} -c \"vncserver -kill :${display%%:*}\" >/dev/null 2>&1"
    done
    RETVAL=$?
    [ "$RETVAL" -eq 0 ] && success $"vncserver shutdown" || \
        failure $"vncserver shutdown"
    echo
    [ "$RETVAL" -eq 0 ] && rm -f /var/lock/subsys/vncserver
}

# See how we were called.
case "$1" in
  start)
        start
        ;;
  stop)
        stop
        ;;
  restart|reload)
        stop
        sleep 1
        start
        ;;
  condrestart)
        if [ -f /var/lock/subsys/vncserver ]; then
            stop
            start
        fi
        ;;
  status)
        status Xvnc
        ;;
  *)
        echo $"Usage: $0 {start|stop|restart|condrestart|status}"
        exit 1
esac

--------------------
Contents of /etc/sysconfig/vncservers:

# The VNCSERVERS variable is a list of display:user pairs.
#
# Uncomment the line below to start a VNC server on display :1
# as my 'myusername' (adjust this to your own).  You will also
# need to set a VNC password; run 'man vncpasswd' to see how
# to do that.  
#
# DO NOT RUN THIS SERVICE if your local area network is
# untrusted!  For a secure way of using VNC, see
# URL:http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/sshvnc.html.

# VNCSERVERS="1:myusername"
VNCSERVERS="100:clustergui"

-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Mon 08/16, Andre Garzia < soapdog at mac.com > wrote:
From: Andre Garzia [mailto: soapdog at mac.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:14:25 -0300
Subject: Question about Rev app on remote X11.

Hi Folks,<br><br>I am with a friend considering Rev for creating some special apps for <br>an enterprize, the problem is, the app will run on server, and it <br>should be displayed on remote xterminals. The dumb terminals got a <br>XFree86 running in there, and the server will pipe the display there... <br>anyone tried running rev apps from remote yet? Will I be the first one?<br><br>Cheers<br>andre<br>-- <br>Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL<br>http://studio.soapdog.org<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From nnoydb at excite.com  Mon Aug 16 16:06:45 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:06:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question about Rev app on remote X11.
Message-ID: <20040816200645.B85B88AEE7@xprdmailfe2.nwk.excite.com>



Also, if the user is connecting via terminal application please make sure that X11 fordwarding is active.

Kevin


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Mon 08/16, Andre Garzia < soapdog at mac.com > wrote:
From: Andre Garzia [mailto: soapdog at mac.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:14:25 -0300
Subject: Question about Rev app on remote X11.

Hi Folks,<br><br>I am with a friend considering Rev for creating some special apps for <br>an enterprize, the problem is, the app will run on server, and it <br>should be displayed on remote xterminals. The dumb terminals got a <br>XFree86 running in there, and the server will pipe the display there... <br>anyone tried running rev apps from remote yet? Will I be the first one?<br><br>Cheers<br>andre<br>-- <br>Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL<br>http://studio.soapdog.org<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From dleyanna at rtl.org  Mon Aug 16 16:22:15 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:22:15 -0400
Subject: Report Tools coming
In-Reply-To: <BD459E44.2679%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <20040816201746.9484030ABB@mail.rtl.org>

Me to, me to...

Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:12 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Report Tools coming


How about some more info? Any testers needed?

On 8/15/04 10:53 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> The one area you'll find most difficult with out-of-the-box Rev is 
> reporting. But there is at least one third-party reporting tool on the 
> verge of release and I know another developer (part of one of the 
> teams I'm working with) who does miracles with reports and may have 
> some tools to release at some point as well.




_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 16:23:40 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:23:40 -0300
Subject: look, it runs from remote! (was Re: Question about Rev app on
	remote X11.)
In-Reply-To: <20040816200645.B85B88AEE7@xprdmailfe2.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040816200645.B85B88AEE7@xprdmailfe2.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <29270879-EFC2-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 5:06 PM, K wrote:

> Also, if the user is connecting via terminal application please make 
> sure that X11 fordwarding is active.
>
> Kevin
>

Kevin,

Yes, I managed to make it run pretty easy. I made a little page about 
it with some shots.

http://homepage.mac.com/soapdog/X11forwarding.html

Thanks for the help!
andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Aug 16 16:18:41 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:18:41 -0400
Subject: close stack
In-Reply-To: <141AC3E8-EF3D-11D8-88FD-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <7741D834-EFC1-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Monday, August 16, 2004, at 12:31 AM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 16, 2004, at 12:15 AM, Hershel Fisch wrote:
>
>> I'm wondering why when I put "close stack "b" in a script it also 
>> hides or closes the stack where the script is in  stack "a" ?
>
> What is the relationship between the stacks? Is "a" a substack of "b"?
Both are subStacks of the same mainStack
Hershel
>
> And, do you have any "closeStack" handlers anywhere?
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Aug 16 16:19:52 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:19:52 -0400
Subject: Shell was( Rev Web Solutions?)
In-Reply-To: <C89C5202-EF43-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <A1B89DF0-EFC1-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Monday, August 16, 2004, at 01:19 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Hi Hershel,
>
> On witch platform are you planning to develop your app ? I can provide 
> you Linux and MacOS X example apps you could use as starter point.
Mac os x.
Thanks, Hershel
>
> Best, Pierre
>
> Le 16 ao?t 04, ? 05:24, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> -- 
> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>
> 100, rue de Paris
> F - 77140 Nemours
>
> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>
> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>
> WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Mon Aug 16 16:29:41 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:29:41 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <4120707A.60507@fourthworld.com>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELGGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
	<8519E918-EF37-11D8-BFAA-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>
	<4120707A.60507@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <00AA685F-EFC3-11D8-B156-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 1:29 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Mark Talluto wrote:
>
>> Marketing software is a wonderful topic.  Something I would imagine 
>> just about everyone on this list might be interested in.  I have been 
>> marketing my software for about 8 years now and am not afraid to 
>> offer some of my experiences.
>
> We're planning another SoCal Rev User Group meeting for early 
> September.  I'd happily try to arrange it around your schedule if 
> you'd care to talk about marketing in the after-dinner portion of the 
> meeting (Trevor has graciously agreed to demo his QT external in the 
> pre-dinner presentation).
>
> At the last SoCal RUG (on your birthday, if I recall) we had some 
> requests for marketing discussion, so it would be most timely if you 
> could consider it.
>
> For those not in southern California:  Are there other regional Rev 
> user groups meeting yet?  Seems there would be enough folks in NY, 
> Brazil, and London to make for some good meetings, possibly other 
> regions as well (time for a NoCal RUG?).
>
> If so please note the URL to the group's home page here.  The SoCal 
> RUG page is at:
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socalrev/>
>
> Feel free to email me if you're interested in starting a regional user 
> group and would like some ideas about how to get started. Geoff Canyon 
> and I have started pooling notes to help other RUGs get going....


Richard,

I would be honored to share my experiences regarding marketing at the 
next SoCal Rev meeting with the understanding that I am not expert in 
this field at all.  I have tried just about everything I am aware of 
regarding marketing.  So it would be fun to talk about it.  I'll 
contact you off-list to set this up.


-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 17:17:52 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 18:17:52 -0300
Subject: Brazil RUG! (was Re: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other
	toolkits)
In-Reply-To: <00AA685F-EFC3-11D8-B156-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMELGGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
	<8519E918-EF37-11D8-BFAA-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>
	<4120707A.60507@fourthworld.com>
	<00AA685F-EFC3-11D8-B156-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <BBF04418-EFC9-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 5:29 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:

>>
>> For those not in southern California:  Are there other regional Rev 
>> user groups meeting yet?  Seems there would be enough folks in NY, 
>> Brazil, and London to make for some good meetings, possibly other 
>> regions as well (time for a NoCal RUG?).
>>
>>


So far I think I might be the only member of Brazilian Revolution User 
Group. Since Brazil got continental proportions, and might be even 
bigger than the U.S. and the former Soviet Republic of Russia, I think 
I've got extreme powers!!! No kidding, if any Brazilian is reading this 
shout to me! We could go out for some pizza and complain about unicode 
and make a pirate group to hijack our way to malta! We should be called 
"Revolution Brazilian Pirates" and have cool mottos like: "The flogging 
will continue until your code is bug free" (I coined this for Richard 
birthday during RMS.)


Andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From greghall at uvic.ca  Mon Aug 16 18:24:38 2004
From: greghall at uvic.ca (Greg Hall)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:24:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Localization
Message-ID: <49370.192.168.1.10.1092695078.squirrel@192.168.1.10>

Is there some way to detect in RR what language the user has logged in as
(English, French, etc). I don't see one.

Or do you just default to English and provide the user with a menu or
preference of some kind to choose something else if they don't want that?

Tx.

================
Greg Hall
greghall at uvic.ca
================

From mark at maseurope.net  Mon Aug 16 18:24:50 2004
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:24:50 +0100
Subject: A possible menu bug?
In-Reply-To: <20040816182654.BAC1893010D@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040816182654.BAC1893010D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <16B9305A-EFD3-11D8-80F5-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>


I created a pulldown menu in RR 2.2.1 in Mac OS X. I chose an icon for 
it, and chose not to display it's name.
  I set it's text to a list of choices. It's quite a long list, so what 
appeared to be the default font seemed a bit big. I changed it's font 
and text size in it's property inspector. This had no effect.
  I found that if I unchecked "Show Border" in the "icons and border" 
pane of it's property inspector, it now displayed the menu as I wished 
ie. with the font and textsize I had set, however, now it showed a 
white rectangle instead of the fill colour inherited from the stack, 
and nothing I could do to change it's fill colour worked.

I started over, and this time the fill colour problem didn't occur, but 
the funky business with the 'show border' property and font did.

This might be two bugs for the price of one, or am I missing something?

Cheers,

Mark


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 16 18:42:10 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:42:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <411F97E0.2050207@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <20040816224210.94315.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
wrote:


> >>mci & mciSendString()
> >>mci MIDI in 3 steps
> >>
> >>these use MIDI files. is there a Windows way
> >>to convert xTalk commands like
> >>play "60q 62e 64e" -- to MIDI files?
> 
> It works on Mac by sending Apple Events to a
> tiny custom translation 
> app. But it doesn't work on Windows because it
> is AppleScript, and Eric 
> is looking for a Windows solution.
> 
> The user contributions page on Rev's web site
> has a stack by UDI called 
> "makeSMF v1.3" which may work. I haven't worked
> with it much, but if I 
> remember right it needs to write a file to
> disk. I don't know if that 
> would be fast enough for "live" music creation
> but it is worth a look.

i believe UDI is mac only
Kurt Kaufmans bundled mac stack is also good.

shakobox can also be used to play different
musical events simultaneously. Fun!

we (I) desperately need Shakobox for Windows.

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Mon Aug 16 19:26:46 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:26:46 -0400
Subject: Is this a Rev bug, or what am I missing?
In-Reply-To: <1e2.2821e848.2e5236f6@aol.com>
References: <1e2.2821e848.2e5236f6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BDAECD9C-EFDB-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Okay, the new version of the custom event handler is:

on makefold what
   if there is a folder what then
     log "Found existing installation folder " & what
   else
     create folder what
     if the result is empty then
       log "Installation folder " & what & " successfully created"
     else
       log "Error creating installation folder " & what & ": " & the 
result
     end if
   end if
end makefold


So.... now it works?

WHY!?!?!

Well, it does!

If the problem pops up again, i will try to get more detailed error 
reports and fill you all in.

Thank you!

On Aug 16, 2004, at 12:12, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:

> log "Creating installation  folder " & what
> create folder  what
> if the result <>"" then log "Creating installation folder  err:" & the 
> result
>
> Let us know the outcome, Frank.
>
> ----- Original post -----
> How do I check that though?  Where are  errors in the "create folder"
> statement reported?
>
> Would "the result"  provide that?  The documentation does not seem 
> clear
> on this.
>
> I  suppose I could always check again (if there is a folder what then)
> after  the "create folder" statement, but if there is a result code, I
> would prefer  to use that.
>
> I will try this, I suppose, and see what I am getting back  as a 
> result.
> ----------
>
> /H
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



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From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug 16 19:30:38 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:30:38 -0400
Subject: Strange invisible charactors
In-Reply-To: <95F623EE-EFB7-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BD46BBDE.2745%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

Thanks - This invisible char wasted three or four hours of my time so I just
deleted that test data and re-entered it (the real data from the mySQL never
had the problem). The only thing I can guess is that somehow because that
card and it's test data was filled-out in the 2.5 beta maybe saving there
and opening in 2.2x somehow introduced those invisible (line feeds is my
guess). The final solution would be for all unicode charactors to behave
"good" when they are in script. The reproducible bug is that a line feed (or
0x00) character will cause a script to fail even if it is in a commented-out
line. It also makes database calls really unhappy.


On 8/16/04 3:07 PM, "Frank Leahy" <frank at backtalk.com> wrote:

> 
> On Aug 16, 2004, at 7:26 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com
> wrote:
> 
>> Subject: Re: Strange invisible charactors
>> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Message-ID: <BD465DE7.26FB%bill at bluewatermaritime.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>> 
>> BBEdit has a "replace with code" function and gives this:
>> 
>> '\0x00birth','\0x00nick','\0x00notes',
>> 
>> So what does \0x00 mean?
>> 
> 
> It looks almost like the first character of each word is a Unicode
> character (with the upper byte being 0 (0x00 is hex zero)) -- but why
> that would be is beyond me.
> 
> -- Frank
> 
> Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
> See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Aug 16 19:32:13 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:32:13 -0400
Subject: Database linked controls
In-Reply-To: <20040816194908.42675.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BD46BC3D.2749%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

Thanks - you solved that minor problem. I have to put my after database
calls in an open card handler instead of open stack (to match when my
connections open). Works good now. Hey watch out for invisible characters in
your SQL queries -- real pain that.


On 8/16/04 3:49 PM, "Jan Schenkel" <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- Bill <bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote:
>> 
>> What is the message sent when a newly opened,
>> connected, stack finishes
>> making a connection to the database?
>> 
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> As far as I can tell, so far nobody has replied to
> this question ; the answer depends largely on your
> connection settings :
> - if you open all connections for the queries when the
> stack opens, then you'll get the 'openStack' message
> after the connection has been made.
> - if you open a connection for a query when the card
> opens, then you'll get the 'openCard' message after
> the connection has been opened.
> - however, Revolution does its best to 'cache'
> connections , so if you have a query A which is opened
> when the stack opens, and all the settings of query B
> are the same, then it will use the connection that is
> already open.
> 
> Hope this clarified it a bit,
> 
> Jan Schenkel.
> 
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La
> Rochefoucauld)
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From paul at psystems.com.au  Mon Aug 16 19:54:55 2004
From: paul at psystems.com.au (Paul Arnott)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:54:55 +1000
Subject: Revolution seems ideal for Linux GUIs
Message-ID: <4121494F.9060502@psystems.com.au>

Hello again,
Having played around with different versions of Linux, it seems that the 
biggest impediment to uptake is a lack of GUI tools to perform tasks 
like maintaining servers and the like. I've since found a fairly good 
solution in the form of Webmin, which uses a browser interface to do 
these sort of jobs in a graphical environment. Webmin is written is a 
bunch of CGI programs written in Perl, and is an excellent tool.
However, having only recently discovered the wonderful world of 
Revolution, it would seem that there is a huge market for Rev 
applications that would perform tasks usually done through a command 
line. Is Rev able to drop stuff into a shell?
Cheers
Paul

From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 20:10:48 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:10:48 -0300
Subject: Revolution seems ideal for Linux GUIs
In-Reply-To: <4121494F.9060502@psystems.com.au>
References: <4121494F.9060502@psystems.com.au>
Message-ID: <E4746FE8-EFE1-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 8:54 PM, Paul Arnott wrote:

> Hello again,
> Having played around with different versions of Linux, it seems that 
> the biggest impediment to uptake is a lack of GUI tools to perform 
> tasks like maintaining servers and the like. I've since found a fairly 
> good solution in the form of Webmin, which uses a browser interface to 
> do these sort of jobs in a graphical environment. Webmin is written is 
> a bunch of CGI programs written in Perl, and is an excellent tool.
> However, having only recently discovered the wonderful world of 
> Revolution, it would seem that there is a huge market for Rev 
> applications that would perform tasks usually done through a command 
> line. Is Rev able to drop stuff into a shell?
> Cheers
> Paul

Paul,

yes, and it does it pretty well, just check the shell() function and 
the open process function, pretty straight forward. The only concern is 
that linux folks are more into open source things they can 
./configure-make-make-install-make-clean... if your software is 
pre-built they look suspicious... :D

andre



> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From greghall at uvic.ca  Mon Aug 16 20:36:45 2004
From: greghall at uvic.ca (Greg Hall)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:36:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object refs
Message-ID: <49414.192.168.1.10.1092703005.squirrel@192.168.1.10>

Is there some way of making a reference to an object in a variable?

IOW, instead of having to say something like

line j of customKeys of field i of me

and having to constantly repeat such wordy refs to objects, is there some
way to do this:

put field i of me into myObj
line j of customKeys of myObj

It sure would be nice if I could.

In this case I could snag the customKeys list, but that's not always what
I'm trying to do.

Tx.

================
Greg Hall
greghall at uvic.ca
================

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 16 21:03:05 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:03:05 -0400
Subject: Videoclip playback
In-Reply-To: <16B9305A-EFD3-11D8-80F5-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>
References: <20040816182654.BAC1893010D@mail.runrev.com>
	<16B9305A-EFD3-11D8-80F5-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <323B2C1F-EFE9-11D8-A030-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Using Rev 2.1.2 in MacOSX with QuickTime installed:

When I try to play a videoclip by importing the video into Rev as a 
control and then using
               play videoclip "myVideo"
it does not work.

First of all, it takes forever to load, then what gets displayed is 
gibberish characters.  This is true whether the video clip is a an mpg  
(mpeg-1) file or a QuickTime movie. It even happens if I try to play 
the video clip from within the Application Browser.

However, the same files play fine if I create a player object and play 
them from disk.

Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug? (No bug listed in Bugzilla 
that I could find.)

M




From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 16 21:21:52 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:21:52 -0400
Subject: Videoclip playback
In-Reply-To: <323B2C1F-EFE9-11D8-A030-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <20040816182654.BAC1893010D@mail.runrev.com>
	<16B9305A-EFD3-11D8-80F5-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>
	<323B2C1F-EFE9-11D8-A030-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D1DAA08E-EFEB-11D8-A030-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

More information on videoclip problem.  When I went back to try this 
again, I WAS able to play the QuickTime .mov clip both in the 
application browser (by double clicking on the clip) and from a script.

However, the .mpg  (mpeg-1 compressed) file still does not work. I did 
try opening the MPEG file in QuickTime player and it played just fine 
that way.

The only other difference between the two files is size: the .mov file 
is 1.6 meg, the MPEG file is between 9 and 10 megs. Is there a size 
limit on imported videoclips?

Marian
On Aug 16, 2004, at 9:03 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Using Rev 2.1.2 in MacOSX with QuickTime installed:
>
> When I try to play a videoclip by importing the video into Rev as a 
> control and then using
>               play videoclip "myVideo"
> it does not work.
>
> First of all, it takes forever to load, then what gets displayed is 
> gibberish characters.  This is true whether the video clip is a an mpg 
>  (mpeg-1) file or a QuickTime movie. It even happens if I try to play 
> the video clip from within the Application Browser.
>
> However, the same files play fine if I create a player object and play 
> them from disk.
>
> Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug? (No bug listed in 
> Bugzilla that I could find.)
>
> M
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Aug 16 21:39:07 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:39:07 -0600
Subject: Object refs
In-Reply-To: <49414.192.168.1.10.1092703005.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
References: <49414.192.168.1.10.1092703005.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
Message-ID: <3AC45B5B-EFEE-11D8-81FD-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 6:36 PM, Greg Hall wrote:

> Is there some way of making a reference to an object in a variable?

Use the long id of the object.

      put the long id of field "Title" of card "Title Page" of stack 
"Novel" into ob
      set the location of ob to newLoc

Dar

****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Aug 16 21:38:29 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:38:29 -0400
Subject: Shell was( Rev Web Solutions?)
In-Reply-To: <C89C5202-EF43-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <244E3596-EFEE-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Monday, August 16, 2004, at 01:19 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Hi Hershel,
>
> On witch platform are you planning to develop your app ? I can provide  
> you Linux and MacOS X example apps you could use as starter point.
I'd appreciate that , Mac OSX
Hershel
>
> Best, Pierre
>
> Le 16 ao?t 04, ? 05:24, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :
>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 3, 2004, at 04:00 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>>> but I'd still like to try out and see how to work with shell() for  
>>>> other things as you mentioned above for maintenance purposes . The  
>>>> question, where I can get some education on that .
>>>
>>> About general PostgreSQL + Metacard/Revolution posts :
>>> <http://www.google.com/ 
>>> search?as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>
>>> About handling a PostgreSQL back-end from Revolution in CGI mode :
>>> <http://www.google.com/ 
>>> search?as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql+sadhu>
>>> About handling a PostgreSQL back-end from Revolution set up as a  
>>> web/eai applications server :
>>> <http://www.google.com/ 
>>> search?as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql+sahores>
>> I looked over these links but didn't get anywhere. I need to know how  
>> to access the first postgres db command and I'll try to get on from  
>> there.
>> I tryed to put just a simple command " put  shell(" cd -")" or "shell  
>> ("ls ..") and got an error Script: missing '"' after literal or  
>> command not found.
>> Thanks , Hershel
>>>
>>> Best, Pierre
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> -- 
> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>
> 100, rue de Paris
> F - 77140 Nemours
>
> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>
> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>
> WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug 16 22:09:06 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:09:06 -0500
Subject: Revolution seems ideal for Linux GUIs
In-Reply-To: <4121494F.9060502@psystems.com.au>
References: <4121494F.9060502@psystems.com.au>
Message-ID: <412168C2.3080105@chipp.com>

Hi Paul,

It's pretty easy. I wrote a 'shell' for an OpenSouce MacOSX command-line 
app called Synergy. You can see the website here:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/SynergyOSX/default.htm

Took me about a day.

best,

Chipp


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Aug 16 22:23:05 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:23:05 -0500
Subject: A possible menu bug?
In-Reply-To: <16B9305A-EFD3-11D8-80F5-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <BD46D639.4069%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/16/04 5:24 PM, "Mark Smith" <mark at maseurope.net> wrote:

> 
> I created a pulldown menu in RR 2.2.1 in Mac OS X. I chose an icon for
> it, and chose not to display it's name.
>   I set it's text to a list of choices. It's quite a long list, so what
> appeared to be the default font seemed a bit big. I changed it's font
> and text size in it's property inspector. This had no effect.
>   I found that if I unchecked "Show Border" in the "icons and border"
> pane of it's property inspector, it now displayed the menu as I wished
> ie. with the font and textsize I had set, however, now it showed a
> white rectangle instead of the fill colour inherited from the stack,
> and nothing I could do to change it's fill colour worked.
> 
> I started over, and this time the fill colour problem didn't occur, but
> the funky business with the 'show border' property and font did.
> 
> This might be two bugs for the price of one, or am I missing something?

Depends on how you look at it, Mark. ;-)

Actually what's happening is that as soon as the showBorder is turned on for
the button in OS X, it is now a Mac OS X "native" button and so retrieves
its information directly from the OS. This is the same as an option button
created in OS X - you can't change the font size, etc. because it is a
"native" button style. As soon as you remove the border, it is no longer a
native button and can be adjusted.

Personally, I think it's a bug - I believe you should be able to set
font/size/style regardless of being "native" or not, but at least it has a
reasonable (if not preferable, IMHO) explanation.


HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug 16 22:24:46 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:24:46 -1000
Subject: Cursor Insertion Fails to Appear at end of text
Message-ID: <9B5D32EC-EFF4-11D8-8E30-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

I am getting a failure of the cursor to appear near the end of text 
fields where the last lines are several lines above the bottom of the 
field?

  Is anyone else getting this? Has it been reported? It's a long 
standing problem... still present in 2.5

Symptoms..

create scrolling field. Insert some text text only fills 2/3rds of the 
field, if you click into the window at the end of the text... no 
cursor... if you click into the text of the last line.. no cursor, if 
you click a few lines above, you get a cursor... ok now, page several 
more paragraphs until text runs over... scroll down... now, problem 
goes away.. you can click at the end of the text... now, it return ten 
times... ten empty lines at then for field click in white space.. you 
should get a cursor between empty line... nothing appears... click 
delete(backspace) and lines are removed... the cursor is there... just 
doesn't appear...

??

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Aug 16 22:25:37 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:25:37 -0500
Subject: Localization
In-Reply-To: <49370.192.168.1.10.1092695078.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
Message-ID: <BD46D6D1.406B%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/16/04 5:24 PM, "Greg Hall" <greghall at uvic.ca> wrote:

> Is there some way to detect in RR what language the user has logged in as
> (English, French, etc). I don't see one.
> 
> Or do you just default to English and provide the user with a menu or
> preference of some kind to choose something else if they don't want that?

Well, here's a link to a tip that lets you get information about the current
language from Windows:

  http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_lang002

For Mac OS, you can probably use AppleScript (although I don't know the
exact call).

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Aug 16 22:42:51 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:42:51 +1000
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <FAA8117C-EF91-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<A3598C72-EF46-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<FAA8117C-EF91-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <224DE18E-EFF7-11D8-B3EF-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 17 Aug 2004, at 12:41 am, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:

>>> Question: These records would typically be over 5000 animals with 
>>> possibly 20 to 30 records each. Would I use a SQL database, XML, 
>>> Arrays, or cards to store the data? (sorry, I've still a lot to 
>>> learn, obviously!!!)
>>
>> Rev binded to Valentina (local DB) and PostgreSQL (remote DB)...
>>
>
> You could also use PostgreSQL locally and save yourself some licensing 
> costs.
>
> I would advise you NOT to store the data internally to the 
> application, since you will probably want to use standalones when 
> distributing to the various locations (otherwise each location would 
> need a Rev license), and the data would be lost when closing the 
> program if the data is stored internally in a standalone.
Not true - if the data is stored in a separate sub-stack, it can be 
saved by it's standalone, even without a Rev license.

I tend to think of these external databases as overkill for nearly all 
projects, and as Paul specifically requires the application to work 
without net access, I think it would be adding a needless layer of 
complexity, requiring each user to install and maintain their own SQL 
server.

Cheers,
Sarah


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Aug 16 22:53:53 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:53:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <20040816224210.94315.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408161953220.819-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

IIRC, there IS a Windows version of Shakobox...

Judy

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Erik Hansen wrote:

> shakobox can also be used to play different
> musical events simultaneously. Fun!
>
> we (I) desperately need Shakobox for Windows.


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Aug 16 23:09:46 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:09:46 -0300
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <224DE18E-EFF7-11D8-B3EF-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<A3598C72-EF46-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<FAA8117C-EF91-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<224DE18E-EFF7-11D8-B3EF-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <E46C8B12-EFFA-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 11:42 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>
> I tend to think of these external databases as overkill for nearly all 
> projects, and as Paul specifically requires the application to work 
> without net access, I think it would be adding a needless layer of 
> complexity, requiring each user to install and maintain their own SQL 
> server.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>

Sarah,

if he uses Valentina then there will be no fuss like installing and 
maintaining a SQL Server, and also he will benefit from SQL searches, 
it's easier to search records using SQL, to use rev 
stack/card/control/text scheme might be overkill if you imagine that he 
will have to code the searching mechanisms on his own don't you think?

Andre


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug 16 23:10:12 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:10:12 -0400
Subject: Is this possible in RR?
In-Reply-To: <224DE18E-EFF7-11D8-B3EF-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <41201136.8040302@psystems.com.au>
	<A3598C72-EF46-11D8-9A20-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
	<FAA8117C-EF91-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<224DE18E-EFF7-11D8-B3EF-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <F439BB6C-EFFA-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 10:42 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> I tend to think of these external databases as overkill for nearly all 
> projects, and as Paul specifically requires the application to work 
> without net access, I think it would be adding a needless layer of 
> complexity, requiring each user to install and maintain their own SQL 
> server.

But, that isn't how Valentina or SQLite work. They are embedded 
single-user databases. They do not require an install, and are not a 
server. They are just an optimized data file supporting SQL queries.

The embedded DB solution offers such benefits as primary fields and 
indexes, so searching within them can be very fast. They can VERY 
rapidly search 10s or 100s of thousands of records. I believe they also 
don't need to be completely loaded into Ram in order to be used as 
stacks do.

Useful for when the local data exceeds the practical size of a stack. 
All that said, I've been very surprised at what can be done with a 
"simple" stack.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 16 23:23:35 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:23:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040816151841.77F40930132@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040817032335.17025.qmail@web40509.mail.yahoo.com>

on Mon, 16 Aug 2004 
Mark Greenberg wrote:

> I don't see the education mailing list mentioned on
> the Rev web site.  
> Where can I subscribe to it?

Ask to RunRev support. In this way they
could measure the interest of participants,
and install the list again. ;-)

> > Did you have a link to see these projects? :-)

> I don't.  I develop them at home, or my students
> make them in class, to 
> be used on the lab computers at school.  There never
> was a need to make 
> them available on the Web.  I don't have a personal
> web site.  

Geocities provides you with 15 mb of free space.

> In the 
> past I have either emailed the stacks to interested
> people or sent them 
> through regular mail if they were too large for
> email.  All my Rev 
> stacks fit on one CD, and I'd be glad to send them
> to anyone who is 
> interested if they contact me off-list.  

Web distribution is faster and cheaper.
How much space take them? Almost 700 MB?
I have space in my website if it could help.
You could upload your compressed zip files
via ftp and left them in the server for a 
week to anyone interested.

> They are teaching-game stacks 
> mostly for the high school level.  Some of the
> stacks described in my 
> original post are not Rev stacks, but HyperStudio
> stacks scripted in 
> HyperLogo.

HyperStudio has a player for both platform.
I'll really like to see these educational stacks.
If you had a fast connection to upload these
files, write me off-list to send you a password
to ftp the files to my webspace.

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
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From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 16 23:37:46 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Compilers for external dll
In-Reply-To: <20040816110349.66D8493010D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040817033746.82679.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com>

on Sun, 15 Aug 2004 
Mark Wieder wrote:

> The last time I checked, Pascal used strings that
> had a length byte as
> their first character, instead of being
> null-terminated. The
> conversion from one form to the other is pretty
> easy.

I agree completely.

> At one time I used a hybrid string form internally:
> length + string + null termination
> 
> and I could then use it as a pascal string or a C
> string, depending on
> whether I specified it starting at byte 0 or byte 1.

That's was a highly clever style of coding!
But not without its risk!

Five years ago, i was coding almost
daily in pascal, but when i learned that
to program interfaces in mac i had to digest 
these massive apple programming books, 
i turned to hypercard and never look back!

Now, i had to start with C code to have
a zlib compression dll for pdf writing.

al



=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
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From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 17 00:04:58 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:04:58 -0400
Subject: Bug in 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <20040817032335.17025.qmail@web40509.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040817032335.17025.qmail@web40509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9AA8CFA8-F002-11D8-AF04-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

I just downloaded the Text to Speech demo from the user files area. It 
works fine in the IDE but when I make a standalone nothing plays when I 
click on the "Say Text" button.  This is in 2.5b1 on Mac OSX. And YES I 
did remember to include the Speech Library in my standalone.

Is this a bug or is there something I missed?

M


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Aug 17 00:57:00 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:57:00 -0400
Subject: send message with parameter
Message-ID: <DFB2AAC9-F009-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi all ,
How do I send a message with a param ?
e.g.  send "myHandler" param1 to stack "abc"
Thanks, Hershel


From bvg at mac.com  Tue Aug 17 01:10:32 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 07:10:32 +0200
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <DFB2AAC9-F009-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <DFB2AAC9-F009-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <C3839814-F00B-11D8-8D77-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>


   send "myHandler" && param1 && param2 && paramX to stack "abc"

Beware of commas in your parameters! If you have commas in the 
parameters (for example a location (143,244) then you need to add 
quotes around them in the send statement, or have a parameter in the 
target handler for each one separately:

send "myHandler" && quote & the loc of me & quote to stack "abc"
or
myHandler xLoc,yLoc

hope that helped
Bjoernke von Gierke

On Aug 17 2004, at 06:57, Hershel Fisch wrote:

> Hi all ,
> How do I send a message with a param ?
> e.g.  send "myHandler" param1 to stack "abc"
> Thanks, Hershel


<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.0.rev"


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 17 01:22:47 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:22:47 -0700
Subject: Questions about Rev/Transcript vs. other toolkits
In-Reply-To: <BD4641A8.26CF%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD4641A8.26CF%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <41219627.4000301@fourthworld.com>

Bill wrote:

> I tried that and it just says error downloading URL rev.net.gz "check
> network connection and proxy setup in preferences"
> 
> There are no such animals in the rev application preferences so I gave up...

In the current shipping version of Rev (v2.2) it's at the bottom of the 
first card of the Preferences stack.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 17 01:30:52 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:30:52 -0700
Subject: Question about Rev app on remote X11.
In-Reply-To: <20040816200519.815DB8AEB8@xprdmailfe2.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040816200519.815DB8AEB8@xprdmailfe2.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <4121980C.2070707@fourthworld.com>


Great info. Have you added that to the feature requests in Bugzilla?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


K wrote:

> Below is a posting I sent some time ago in reference to using RR stand-alones in a cluster environment.  A RR stand-alone should observe the $DISPALY environment variable and if envoked from a remote termial display on that terminal. Another alterative is to use the "--display" commmand line parameter (shown below) which will cause the stad-alone to ignore the $DISPLAY environment variable and use the specified display.
> 
> 
> Kevin
> 
> =============================================================================
> ORGINAL POSTING
> =============================================================================
> 
> 
> 
> Cluster GUI
> 
> solution it is messy but gets the job done.
> 
> Create a user with very little access for my purposes I will call it 'clustergui'. 
> 
> Manually execute vncserver and set the vnc password to something very secure!
> 
> Create a init.d script (or use the one below) to initialize a vncserver secession (protected by local firewall) for user 'clustergui'.  
> 
> Add 127.0.0.1 aka locahost to your system xhost (this gives 127.0.0.1 aka localhost the right to mount the gui you just created).
> 
> Execute the program like so:
> 
> rrprogram -display 127.0.0.1:<display#> 
> 
> Note: You can set the DISPLAY environment varaible to 127.0.0.1:<display#> for entire cluster.
> 
> Because the firewall is protecting the VNC secession (preventing anyone from connecting) the secession will utilize little processor.  I also configured the ~/.vnc/xstartup to use 'twm' as the window manager (significantly lowering the memory foot-print).  Using it in this manner allows ALL GUI applications to have a X secession (not just RR standalones).  In fact I am now using matlab with bitmap function (which require X) on my cluster.
> 
> I am also using this method for my cron/console (dual mode) execution.
> 
> The scripts I used to create the secession is below.
> 
> Hope this is helpful,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> #
> # chkconfig: - 91 35
> # description: Starts and stops vncserver. \
> #              used to provide remote X administration services.
> 
> # Source function library.
> . /etc/init.d/functions
> 
> # Source networking configuration.
> . /etc/sysconfig/network
> 
> # Check that networking is up.
> [ ${NETWORKING} = "no" ] && exit 0
> 
> VNCSERVERS=""
> [ -f /etc/sysconfig/vncservers ] && . /etc/sysconfig/vncservers
> 
> prog=$"VNC server"
> 
> start() {
>     echo -n $"Starting $prog: "
>     ulimit -S -c 0 >/dev/null 2>&1
>     RETVAL=0
>     for display in ${VNCSERVERS}
>     do
>         echo -n "${display} "
>         unset BASH_ENV ENV
>         initlog $INITLOG_ARGS -c \
>             "su ${display##*:} -l -c \"cd ~${display##*:} && [ -f .vnc/passwd ] && vncserver :${display%%:*}\""
>         RETVAL=$?
>         [ "$RETVAL" -ne 0 ] && break
>     done
>     [ "$RETVAL" -eq 0 ] && success $"vncserver startup" || \
>         failure $"vncserver start"
>     echo
>     [ "$RETVAL" -eq 0 ] && touch /var/lock/subsys/vncserver
> }
> 
> stop() {
>     echo -n $"Shutting down $prog: "
>     for display in ${VNCSERVERS}
>     do
>         echo -n "${display} "
>         unset BASH_ENV ENV
>         initlog $INITLOG_ARGS -c \
>             "su ${display##*:} -c \"vncserver -kill :${display%%:*}\" >/dev/null 2>&1"
>     done
>     RETVAL=$?
>     [ "$RETVAL" -eq 0 ] && success $"vncserver shutdown" || \
>         failure $"vncserver shutdown"
>     echo
>     [ "$RETVAL" -eq 0 ] && rm -f /var/lock/subsys/vncserver
> }
> 
> # See how we were called.
> case "$1" in
>   start)
>         start
>         ;;
>   stop)
>         stop
>         ;;
>   restart|reload)
>         stop
>         sleep 1
>         start
>         ;;
>   condrestart)
>         if [ -f /var/lock/subsys/vncserver ]; then
>             stop
>             start
>         fi
>         ;;
>   status)
>         status Xvnc
>         ;;
>   *)
>         echo $"Usage: $0 {start|stop|restart|condrestart|status}"
>         exit 1
> esac
> 
> --------------------
> Contents of /etc/sysconfig/vncservers:
> 
> # The VNCSERVERS variable is a list of display:user pairs.
> #
> # Uncomment the line below to start a VNC server on display :1
> # as my 'myusername' (adjust this to your own).  You will also
> # need to set a VNC password; run 'man vncpasswd' to see how
> # to do that.  
> #
> # DO NOT RUN THIS SERVICE if your local area network is
> # untrusted!  For a secure way of using VNC, see
> # URL:http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/sshvnc.html.
> 
> # VNCSERVERS="1:myusername"
> VNCSERVERS="100:clustergui"
> 
> -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Aug 17 01:33:07 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:33:07 +1000
Subject: Bug in 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <9AA8CFA8-F002-11D8-AF04-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <20040817032335.17025.qmail@web40509.mail.yahoo.com>
	<9AA8CFA8-F002-11D8-AF04-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <EAFDECAA-F00E-11D8-B3EF-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I haven't tried it with 2.5 but with the earlier versions, I found you 
had to include a command in your startup to set the externals.

e.g. for OS X:

   put the fileName of stack "MyMainStack" into tFile
   set the itemDel to "/"
   delete last item of tFile
   set the externals of stack "MyMainStack" to tFile & 
"/externals/revspeech.bundle"

Cheers,
Sarah


On 17 Aug 2004, at 2:06 pm, Marian Petrides wrote:

> I just downloaded the Text to Speech demo from the user files area. It 
> works fine in the IDE but when I make a standalone nothing plays when 
> I click on the "Say Text" button.  This is in 2.5b1 on Mac OSX. And 
> YES I did remember to include the Speech Library in my standalone.
>
> Is this a bug or is there something I missed?
>
> M


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 17 01:44:11 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:44:11 -0700
Subject: Educational uses for Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040817032335.17025.qmail@web40509.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040817032335.17025.qmail@web40509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41219B2B.6090408@fourthworld.com>

Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> on Mon, 16 Aug 2004 
> Mark Greenberg wrote:
> 
> 
>>I don't see the education mailing list mentioned on
>>the Rev web site.  
>>Where can I subscribe to it?
> 
> 
> Ask to RunRev support. In this way they
> could measure the interest of participants,
> and install the list again. ;-)

Educators were the single biggest audience for HyperCard, so it would 
seem reasonable that we can expect the same with Dreamcard.

If there is a separate list for Dreamcard I have no doubt it will 
organically evolve to have education issues be a regular part of the 
discussion there.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Aug 17 01:56:33 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 07:56:33 +0200
Subject: Revolution seems ideal for Linux GUIs
In-Reply-To: <4121494F.9060502@psystems.com.au>
References: <4121494F.9060502@psystems.com.au>
Message-ID: <3148C4E6-F012-11D8-AA4B-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hello Paul,

As an example, Revo is the only tool i use to build my PostgreSQL's 
management tools (as a dedicated n-tier front-end/application server 
networked app), from DB creation to pg_dumps ;) Best, this way let me 
get the best from the "object oriented" features of Postgres.

Le 17 ao?t 04, ? 01:54, Paul Arnott a ?crit :

> Hello again,
> Having played around with different versions of Linux, it seems that 
> the biggest impediment to uptake is a lack of GUI tools to perform 
> tasks like maintaining servers and the like. I've since found a fairly 
> good solution in the form of Webmin, which uses a browser interface to 
> do these sort of jobs in a graphical environment. Webmin is written is 
> a bunch of CGI programs written in Perl, and is an excellent tool.
> However, having only recently discovered the wonderful world of 
> Revolution, it would seem that there is a huge market for Rev 
> applications that would perform tasks usually done through a command 
> line. Is Rev able to drop stuff into a shell?
> Cheers
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 17 02:27:13 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:27:13 -0600
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <DFB2AAC9-F009-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <DFB2AAC9-F009-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <7A381B55-F016-11D8-98A7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 16, 2004, at 10:57 PM, Hershel Fisch wrote:

> How do I send a message with a param ?
> e.g.  send "myHandler" param1 to stack "abc"

     send "myHandler param1" to stack "abc"

Dar

****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Tue Aug 17 02:32:34 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 02:32:34 EDT
Subject: send message with parameter
Message-ID: <142.3115ee5a.2e530082@aol.com>


> Hi all ,
> How do I send a message with a param ?
>  e.g.  send "myHandler" param1 to stack "abc"
> Thanks,  Hershel

put the defaultStack into tDefStk
set the defaultStack to  "abc"
MyHandler param1
se tthe defaultStack to tDefStk

/H
Hugh  Senior
The Flexible Learning Company
Web: www.FlexibleLearning.com
E:  h at flexiblelearning.com



From revolution at jaedworks.com  Mon Aug 16 11:57:24 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:57:24 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <BD45374B.7004%moe2@shaw.ca>
References: <BD45374B.7004%moe2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <p061005ecbd4689abf6a6@[66.93.39.98]>

At 3:52 PM -0700 8/15/2004, moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:
>you are correct ... to be able to check and uncheck menuItems in a cascading
>menu (also, that these cascade menuItems are in a button with other
>menuItems)
>
>as for "easy to do in Rev."  ... this i have yet to see!
>so far i have not been able to do this

Moe, posting your code that is not having the desired effect will 
probably make this process much quicker.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Aug 17 02:20:48 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:20:48 -0700
Subject: Cursor Insertion Fails to Appear at end of text
In-Reply-To: <9B5D32EC-EFF4-11D8-8E30-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <9B5D32EC-EFF4-11D8-8E30-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <p06100539bd475415dc2c@[66.93.39.98]>

At 4:24 PM -1000 8/16/2004, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>I am getting a failure of the cursor to appear near the end of text 
>fields where the last lines are several lines above the bottom of 
>the field?

There's a known problem when fields overlap a group (which I thought 
was fixed, but you might be seeing it again). Does this happen if the 
field is the only object on the card?
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 17 02:58:54 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:58:54 -0600
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <142.3115ee5a.2e530082@aol.com>
References: <142.3115ee5a.2e530082@aol.com>
Message-ID: <E6E68A4A-F01A-11D8-98A7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 17, 2004, at 12:32 AM, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:

>> How do I send a message with a param ?
>>  e.g.  send "myHandler" param1 to stack "abc"
>> Thanks,  Hershel
>
> put the defaultStack into tDefStk
> set the defaultStack to  "abc"
> MyHandler param1
> se tthe defaultStack to tDefStk

I wonder if this is faster than a 'send'.  If so, this can be pretty 
handy.
If it works.

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Aug 17 03:22:46 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:22:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug in 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <9AA8CFA8-F002-11D8-AF04-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408170021590.819-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I dunno, but Mark from the HC list just reported to me that there was a
speech-related error in my uploaded stack...

Judy

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004, Marian Petrides wrote:

> I just downloaded the Text to Speech demo from the user files area. It
> works fine in the IDE but when I make a standalone nothing plays when I
> click on the "Say Text" button.  This is in 2.5b1 on Mac OSX. And YES I
> did remember to include the Speech Library in my standalone.
>
> Is this a bug or is there something I missed?
>
> M


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Aug 17 03:23:45 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:23:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug in 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <EAFDECAA-F00E-11D8-B3EF-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408170023140.819-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

FWIW, Mark reported a problem with my *uncompiled* stack with respect to
speech under 2.5...

Judy

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> I haven't tried it with 2.5 but with the earlier versions, I found you
> had to include a command in your startup to set the externals.
>
> e.g. for OS X:
>
>    put the fileName of stack "MyMainStack" into tFile
>    set the itemDel to "/"
>    delete last item of tFile
>    set the externals of stack "MyMainStack" to tFile &
> "/externals/revspeech.bundle"
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Tue Aug 17 04:46:52 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:46:52 +0200
Subject: Localization
In-Reply-To: <49370.192.168.1.10.1092695078.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
Message-ID: <FC63BC7B-F029-11D8-908D-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>

on MacOS X

put replaceText(shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain  
AppleLanguages"),"(\s|\(|\))","") into theLanguagesList
theLanguagesList will contains the list of the preferred languages as  
defined in the international panel of the system preferences, separated  
by comma
e.g. en,fr
or English,French

For more information, you can visit the Apple Developer site:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/ 
BPInternational/Concepts/LanguageDesignations.html

Thierry

On Tuesday, Aug 17, 2004, at 00:24 Europe/Paris, Greg Hall wrote:

> Is there some way to detect in RR what language the user has logged in  
> as
> (English, French, etc). I don't see one.
>
> Or do you just default to English and provide the user with a menu or
> preference of some kind to choose something else if they don't want  
> that?
>
> Tx.
>
> ================
> Greg Hall
> greghall at uvic.ca
> ================
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 17 05:12:04 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:12:04 +0200
Subject: Localization
In-Reply-To: <49370.192.168.1.10.1092695078.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
References: <49370.192.168.1.10.1092695078.squirrel@192.168.1.10>
Message-ID: <81CF2156-F02D-11D8-8C7F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Greg,

> Is there some way to detect in RR what language the user has logged in 
> as
> (English, French, etc). I don't see one.
>
> Or do you just default to English and provide the user with a menu or
> preference of some kind to choose something else if they don't want 
> that?

i use to check the "system weekdaynames" for sunday, sounds strange, 
but works :-D
(sprache = language)
...
  switch
   case "Sonntag" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
     put "d" into sprache
     break
   case "Zondaag" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
     put "hl" into sprache
     break
   case "Sondaag" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
     put "af" into sprache
     break
   case "Dimanche" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
     put "fr" into sprache
     break
   case "Domenica" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
     put "it" into sprache
     break
   case "Domingo" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
     put "sp" into sprache
     break
   default
     put "gb" into sprache
     break
...

Hope that helps

> Tx.
>
> ================
> Greg Hall
> greghall at uvic.ca
> ================

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From mark at maseurope.net  Tue Aug 17 05:31:54 2004
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:31:54 +0100
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 75
In-Reply-To: <20040817045947.CDAE1930078@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040817045947.CDAE1930078@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <471A2FE0-F030-11D8-9F6A-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>


On 17 Aug 2004, at 05:59, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Hi all ,
> How do I send a message with a param ?
> e.g.  send "myHandler" param1 to stack "abc"
> Thanks, Hershel


Just put the quotes outside the whole command:

send "myHandler param1" to stack "abc"

Cheers,


Mark


From mark at maseurope.net  Tue Aug 17 05:34:37 2004
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:34:37 +0100
Subject: A possible menu bug?
In-Reply-To: <20040817045947.CDAE1930078@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040817045947.CDAE1930078@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A7F414BE-F030-11D8-9F6A-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>

Thanks, Ken. That makes sense, but I agree, we should be able to 
control the menus regardless....

Cheers,

Mark


From frank at backtalk.com  Tue Aug 17 08:46:17 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:46:17 +0100
Subject: Should put URL file: create intervening folders?
Message-ID: <6E76EE03-F04B-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

When I call "put URL ftp:", it creates any intervening directories that 
don't yet exist, e.g.

     put URL "ftp:/some/file/goes/here.txt"

will create /some and /some/file and /some/file/goes directories before 
putting the file "here.txt".

The same thing doesn't seem happen when I use "put URL file:", i.e. any 
missing folders are NOT created.  Is that correct, or am I doing 
something wrong?

Thanks,
-- Frank

p.s. I wish the docs were a little more explicit about this...

Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/


From bvg at mac.com  Tue Aug 17 09:24:56 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:24:56 +0200
Subject: Should put URL file: create intervening folders?
In-Reply-To: <6E76EE03-F04B-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <6E76EE03-F04B-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <D4B68F12-F050-11D8-8D77-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>


On Aug 17 2004, at 14:46, Frank Leahy wrote:

> When I call "put URL ftp:", it creates any intervening directories 
> that don't yet exist, e.g.
>
>     put URL "ftp:/some/file/goes/here.txt"
>
> will create /some and /some/file and /some/file/goes directories 
> before putting the file "here.txt".
>
> The same thing doesn't seem happen when I use "put URL file:", i.e. 
> any missing folders are NOT created.  Is that correct, or am I doing 
> something wrong?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Frank

That is how it's supposed to work

Check these items from the docs:

ftp keyword
file keyword
create folder command
how to... create a directory on a ftp server


<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.0.rev"


From PaulBuzzy at aol.com  Tue Aug 17 09:45:25 2004
From: PaulBuzzy at aol.com (PaulBuzzy at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:45:25 EDT
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after Quitting
Message-ID: <1a8.27575a7c.2e5365f5@aol.com>

I am writing a fairly complicated standalone application called ScrapDiary 
using Runtime Revolution. ScrapDiary is a calendar-based app. that can store 
pictures, movies, sounds, and text on each page. The main stack has several 
substacks for handling sound recording, video input, a floating calendar etc. I 
store the information in a separate stack which is created at runtime. When 
ScrapDiary first opens, I have a startup script that opens the splash screen window 
(modal - closes after a set time or when the user clicks on it). I also have 
a preopen stack script in the main stack that opens and closes a hidden 
calendar substack (a crude way of setting up some variables in the substack). I have 
about eight substacks, some of which use some global variables setup in the 
main stack.
Now, I have run into a major problem when I create the standalone. When I 
open and close ScrapDiary, ?ScrapDiary.exe? shows up in the list of processes in 
the Windows Task Manager running under Windows XP. The standalone uses some 
of the externals (revspeech.dll and revvideograbber.dll). Now here is the 
strange thing. If I prevent two of the substacks from opening during startup and 
preopen stack (the splash screen and calendar substack), I don?t get the problem.
Now, if I create a very simple stack with no substacks and include a button 
that references the revSpeak command on mouseUp, everything is fine if I simply 
open and close the stack. If I click the button and use the revSpeak command, 
the standalone also remains in the process list of Windows Task Manager, even 
after quitting.
I am not sure if the reference to the externals (revSpeech etc.) are the 
reason for the problem in ScrapDiary, but they seem to be in the simple stack. I 
have played around with the destroyStack and destroyWindow settings to no avail.
Please let me know what I may be doing wrong. Thank you.

From Meitnik at aol.com  Tue Aug 17 10:07:29 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:07:29 EDT
Subject: menu bug, setting features
Message-ID: <c4.135b7d5d.2e536b21@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/17/04 1:03:30 AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> Personally, I think it's a bug - I believe you should be able to set
> font/size/style regardless of being "native" or not, but at least it has a
> reasonable (if not preferable, IMHO) explanation.
> -- I would vote for it in BZ. I hate to have to roll my own speical menus 
under osX. ;-)

Andrew


From mdswindell at charter.net  Tue Aug 17 10:34:55 2004
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 07:34:55 -0700
Subject: Rev web presence
Message-ID: <9BA7B6B5-F05A-11D8-A8DF-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>

I've been reading posts here alluding to DreamCard but didn't really 
know what it was, so I Googled it and was directed to broken links and 
then found a link to http://revolution.runrev.com where there appears 
to be a new site taking shape?  I'm just airing the confusion I've felt 
navigating the Revolution web world, even the straight runrev.com site.

I've wanted to turn people on to the power of Revolution, but for the 
uninitiated person visiting the site, I'm not sure how appealingly the 
product and its offshoots is being portrayed.  I think I can say this:  
If I had no prior scripting experience with HyperCard/Supercard and 
hadn't heard MetaCard's praises sung on the latter list, I don't think 
I would buy into the Rev. product as a newcomer.  I say all of this as 
a constructive observation.  I think Revolution is an amazingly 
powerful tool and interface.

Mark Swindell


From kevin at runrev.com  Tue Aug 17 10:51:45 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:51:45 +0100
Subject: Rev web presence
In-Reply-To: <9BA7B6B5-F05A-11D8-A8DF-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
Message-ID: <BD47DA11.30C2%kevin@runrev.com>

On 17/8/04 3:34 pm, "Mark Swindell" <mdswindell at charter.net> wrote:

> I've been reading posts here alluding to DreamCard but didn't really
> know what it was, so I Googled it and was directed to broken links and
> then found a link to http://revolution.runrev.com where there appears
> to be a new site taking shape?  I'm just airing the confusion I've felt
> navigating the Revolution web world, even the straight runrev.com site.

Obviously there will be an update to the web site when the 2.5 release is
ready.  The release is still in testing and the site update isn't ready yet,
the draft pages you managed to find shouldn't have been available (and now
aren't).  Stay tuned for the final version.

Thanks,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From jan.decroos at groepvanroey.be  Tue Aug 17 11:08:04 2004
From: jan.decroos at groepvanroey.be (Jan Decroos)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:08:04 +0200
Subject: Localization
In-Reply-To: <20040817143435.ABFD49300AC@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040817143435.ABFD49300AC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <fc.0073fc4600134bd03b9aca00491d6f32.134bf4@groepvanroey.be>

>Klaus Major:

>i use to check the "system weekdaynames" for sunday, sounds strange, 
>but works :-D
>(sprache = language)
>...
>  switch
>   case "Sonntag" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
>     put "d" into sprache
>     break
>   case "Zondaag" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
>     put "hl" into sprache
>     break
>   case "Sondaag" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
>     put "af" into sprache
>     break
>   case "Dimanche" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
>     put "fr" into sprache
>     break
>   case "Domenica" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
>     put "it" into sprache
>     break
>   case "Domingo" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
>     put "sp" into sprache
>     break
>   default
>     put "gb" into sprache
>     break
>...
>
>Hope that helps


small correction:
        Sunday translated in dutch ("hl" -> Holland) is "Zondag".

on Mac OS X you can get the language by 
	word 1 of item 1 of line 2 of shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain
AppleLanguages") 
 		-> "English"  or "Dutch" or  "German" or ...

Jan


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 17 11:16:36 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:16:36 +0200
Subject: Localization
In-Reply-To: <fc.0073fc4600134bd03b9aca00491d6f32.134bf4@groepvanroey.be>
References: <20040817143435.ABFD49300AC@mail.runrev.com>
	<fc.0073fc4600134bd03b9aca00491d6f32.134bf4@groepvanroey.be>
Message-ID: <6E5A2F29-F060-11D8-8C7F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Jan,

>> Klaus Major:
>
>> i use to check the "system weekdaynames" for sunday, sounds strange,
>> but works :-D
>> (sprache = language)
>> ...
>>  switch
>>   case "Sonntag" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
>>     put "d" into sprache
>>     break
>>   case "Zondaag" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
>>     put "hl" into sprache
>>     break
>>   case "Sondaag" is among the lines of the system weekdaynames
>>     put "af" into sprache

af = afrikaans

Hi Ryno, hoe gaat het met U? :-)

>> ...
>>
>> Hope that helps
>
> small correction:
>         Sunday translated in dutch ("hl" -> Holland) is "Zondag".

(Jean-Claude) Verdamme, dat klopt :-)

> on Mac OS X you can get the language by
> 	word 1 of item 1 of line 2 of shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain
> AppleLanguages")
>  		-> "English"  or "Dutch" or  "German" or ...

Sure, that's what i learned today, too ;-)

> Jan

Thanks and regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Aug 17 11:34:25 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:34:25 -0300
Subject: corrupt RunRev win32 version on site...
Message-ID: <EBA06F3F-F062-11D8-ABBE-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I tried downloading Runtime Revolution Trial Version 2.2.1 from the 
RunRev page on three different machines. Every time I tried to install, 
installShield complained about corrupt data1.cab. I think the download 
is broken.

andre
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Tue Aug 17 11:35:23 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:35:23 +0200
Subject: Localization
In-Reply-To: <fc.0073fc4600134bd03b9aca00491d6f32.134bf4@groepvanroey.be>
Message-ID: <0E446AEE-F063-11D8-908D-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>


On Tuesday, Aug 17, 2004, at 17:08 Europe/Paris, Jan Decroos wrote:

>
> on Mac OS X you can get the language by
> 	word 1 of item 1 of line 2 of shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain
> AppleLanguages")
>  		-> "English"  or "Dutch" or  "German" or ...
>
> Jan
>
on MacOS 10.2.8 and Rev 2.1, this script returns empty

To get the language, I use
replaceText(shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain 
AppleLanguages"),"(\s|\(|\))","")

Thierry

> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug 17 11:42:31 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:42:31 -0500
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after
 Quitting
In-Reply-To: <1a8.27575a7c.2e5365f5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD479197.40DC%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/17/04 8:45 AM, "PaulBuzzy at aol.com" <PaulBuzzy at aol.com> wrote:
> Now, I have run into a major problem when I create the standalone. When I
> open and close ScrapDiary, ?ScrapDiary.exe? shows up in the list of processes
> in 
> the Windows Task Manager running under Windows XP.

Paul,

Are you officially executing a "quit" command, or are you just letting the
closure of the last stack window handle that for you? If it is the latter,
could you test trapping "closeStackRequest" on your final window and doing
an official "quit", like:

on closeStackRequest
  quit
end closeStackRequest

And then let us know what happened so we can troubleshoot this further...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug 17 11:45:04 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:45:04 -0500
Subject: Localization
In-Reply-To: <0E446AEE-F063-11D8-908D-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <BD479230.40DD%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/17/04 10:35 AM, "Thierry Arbellot" <thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr> wrote:

> 
> On Tuesday, Aug 17, 2004, at 17:08 Europe/Paris, Jan Decroos wrote:
> 
>> 
>> on Mac OS X you can get the language by
>> word 1 of item 1 of line 2 of shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain
>> AppleLanguages")
>> -> "English"  or "Dutch" or  "German" or ...
>> 
>> Jan
>> 
> on MacOS 10.2.8 and Rev 2.1, this script returns empty
> 
> To get the language, I use
> replaceText(shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain
> AppleLanguages"),"(\s|\(|\))","")

Thierry,

When you get this, is the first one in the list the one that is currently
the active language? If not, how do you tell what is the currently active
language?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Aug 17 12:53:32 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:53:32 -0800
Subject: MIDI tools
In-Reply-To: <20040815222228.73E419300D4@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD477809.750D%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi. Back on this again.

> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:08:45 -0400
> From: Kurt Kaufman <kkaufman at snet.net>
> Subject: MIDI tools

>> What about MIDI tools, specifically, can we play notes live through an
>> onscreen keyboard with no latency.
>> Would it work with Rev?  How could it be implemented
>> cross-platform (the thing I'm interested in for these experiments)? I
>> wouldn't have a clue how to transform it into a Windows-useable DLL.
>> 
> 
> As  you indicate, the cross-platform issue is the challenge.
>
> In reference to your question above, I'm guessing that you would have
> to have an external that would interact with QT for Windows, or
> alternately one that might work through the underlying mechanism used
> by the Windows Media Player to play MIDI files.

I guess my question is: Does anyone here have that capability?

Media Player MIDI files might be great SA addition, but since most of the
other stuff (a chord maker, chord progression maker, recorder, and live
instrument player with an onscreen keyboard and special perussion/effects
player) will be using QT, then the platform must have it aboard anyway.

So, yes, can anyone here develop a QuickNotes type of external to work with
Rev on a Windows platform?

Ken N.


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Tue Aug 17 12:01:15 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:01:15 +0200
Subject: Localization
In-Reply-To: <BD479230.40DD%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <AB39D3DA-F066-11D8-908D-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>

On Tuesday, Aug 17, 2004, at 17:45 Europe/Paris, Ken Ray wrote:

>> on MacOS 10.2.8 and Rev 2.1, this script returns empty
>>
>> To get the language, I use
>> replaceText(shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain
>> AppleLanguages"),"(\s|\(|\))","")
>
> Thierry,
>
> When you get this, is the first one in the list the one that is 
> currently
> the active language? If not, how do you tell what is the currently 
> active
> language?
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com

Hi Ken,

Yes, the first in the list is the active language.
The languages in this list are sorted in the same order than the 
languages in the system preferences, international panel

Regards.
Thierry


From laguer at ucs.orst.edu  Tue Aug 17 12:13:17 2004
From: laguer at ucs.orst.edu (Rich Lague)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:13:17 -0700
Subject: next repeat problem
In-Reply-To: <4121980C.2070707@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <593DCC7C-F068-11D8-AD29-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>

I'm trying to get rid of blank lines in a global variable by using the 
"next repeat" control structure to stop them from being put into the 
variable in the first place. I keep getting errors-- but only when I 
include the "next repeat" line. Here is the script:

on upDateTopicsRequest
   global theList, order, theListPlus, currentListNam

   put empty into theList
   ask "Would you like to save your current list?"
   if it is empty then beep
   else
     put it into field "listName"
     put it into currentListNam

     set the itemDelimiter to tab
     repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines in field "daTable"
       if  line i is empty then next repeat
       put item 1 of line i of field "daTable" & return after theList
     end repeat
     put the number of lines of theList into order
     put field "daTable" into theListPlus --extract the descriptors in 
productEval stack

   end if

end upDateTopicsRequest


	"daTable" is a table field. If I exclude the "next repeat" line I do 
not get an error, but I get a lot of blank lines in the global variable 
"theList". This, in turn, causes other problems down the line. The 
error I get when I hit the "Apply" button is "if missing 'then'.
	Is there a better way of excluding the blank lines in the field 
"daTable" from my global variable?

Thanks,

Rich Lague


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Aug 17 13:15:05 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:15:05 -0800
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <20040817045947.CDAE1930078@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD477D18.750E%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Judy,

> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:53:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu>
> Subject: Re: Re :Windows MIDI conversion question
> 
> IIRC, there IS a Windows version of Shakobox...
 
No, I'm afraid not. It uses AppleScript. Jacque, who developed the interface
for it, wrote:

> It works on Mac by sending Apple Events to a tiny custom translation
> app. But it doesn't work on Windows because it is AppleScript, and Eric
> is looking for a Windows solution.
> 
> The user contributions page on Rev's web site has a stack by UDI called
> "makeSMF v1.3" which may work. I haven't worked with it much, but if I
> remember right it needs to write a file to disk. I don't know if that
> would be fast enough for "live" music creation but it is worth a look.


** for Erik -- did you try "makeSMF v1.3"?
 
> On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Erik Hansen wrote:
> 
>> shakobox can also be used to play different
>> musical events simultaneously. Fun!
>> 
>> we (I) desperately need Shakobox for Windows.

Looks like you'd have to create a track using it, then somehow figure out
timing for playback, if you want to use it for accompaniment while playing
live, or to coordinate with other tracks.

What is it, exactly, that you want to do? Why can't you just create MIDI
files with one of the softwares available for Windows and incorporate them
into your stacks?

Ken N.


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 17 12:18:46 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: next repeat problem
In-Reply-To: <593DCC7C-F068-11D8-AD29-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <20040817161846.42332.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Rich Lague <laguer at ucs.orst.edu> wrote:
>        if  line i is empty then next repeat

Should be

         if  line i of field "daTable" is empty
         then next repeat

Also check out 'repeat for each' as it is much faster
when traversing the lines of a variable or field.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Aug 17 12:19:14 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <BD477D18.750E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408170917390.23285-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Jacque:

Am I on drugs or something?? I thought that Jonathan wrote a Windows
version after I asked him about it on the HC list.

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:

> Hi Judy,
>
> > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:53:53 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu>
> > Subject: Re: Re :Windows MIDI conversion question
> >
> > IIRC, there IS a Windows version of Shakobox...
>
> No, I'm afraid not. It uses AppleScript. Jacque, who developed the interface
> for it, wrote:


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 17 12:28:10 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:28:10 +0200
Subject: next repeat problem
In-Reply-To: <593DCC7C-F068-11D8-AD29-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>
References: <593DCC7C-F068-11D8-AD29-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <6D8A6C7C-F06A-11D8-8C7F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Rich,

> I'm trying to get rid of blank lines in a global variable by using the 
> "next repeat" control structure to stop them from being put into the 
> variable in the first place. I keep getting errors-- but only when I 
> include the "next repeat" line. Here is the script:
>
> on upDateTopicsRequest
>   global theList, order, theListPlus, currentListNam
>
>   put empty into theList
>   ask "Would you like to save your current list?"
>   if it is empty then beep
>   else
>     put it into field "listName"
>     put it into currentListNam
>
>     set the itemDelimiter to tab
>     repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines in field "daTable"
>    ##   if  line i is empty then next repeat
## Does this work?
        if  line i of field "daTable" = empty then next repeat
## Need the complete descriptor for i...

>       put item 1 of line i of field "daTable" & return after theList
>     end repeat
>     put the number of lines of theList into order
>     put field "daTable" into theListPlus --extract the descriptors in 
> productEval stack
>
>   end if
>
> end upDateTopicsRequest
>
>
> 	"daTable" is a table field. If I exclude the "next repeat" line I do 
> not get an error, but I get a lot of blank lines in the global 
> variable "theList". This, in turn, causes other problems down the 
> line. The error I get when I hit the "Apply" button is "if missing 
> 'then'.
> 	Is there a better way of excluding the blank lines in the field 
> "daTable" from my global variable?

If you have MANY lines you could save some time using "repeat for 
each..."

...
set the itemdel to TAB
repeat for each line i in fld "daTable"
    if i <> empty then
       put item 1 of i & CR after theList
    end if
end repeat
...

Insanely fast :-D

Hope that helps...

> Thanks,
>
> Rich Lague

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Tue Aug 17 12:30:23 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:30:23 +0200
Subject: tiny analog clock
Message-ID: <BD2F312B-F06A-11D8-8DA6-003065CC999E@pi.be>

For those who like to fiddle with tiny analog clocks put this in a 
button:

on mouseUp
   if there is no grp "Clock" then goCreateOne
   if the optionkey is down then
     set the runclock of grp "clock" to false
     exit to top
   end if
   setBackFace
end mouseUp

on setBackFace
   if there is no grp "Clock" then goCreateOne
   if  the cHMS of grp "clock" is 10,14,15 then
     ### radius of backface
     put 10 into tR
     ### length of hours, minutes and seconds hand
     set the cHMS of grp "clock" to 7,9,10
   else
     put 15 into tR
     set the cHMS of grp "clock" to 10,14,15
   end if
   put 0,0 & cr & 0,1 & cr & 1,1 & cr & 1,0 & cr & 0,0 into tA
   put 0,0 & cr & 0,1 & cr & -1,1 & cr & -1,0 & cr & 0,0 into tAA
   if the points of grc "backface" = "" then
     put the right of me + 30 into x
     put item 2 of the loc of me into y
   else
     put item 1 of the loc of grp "clock" into x
     put item 2 of the loc of grp "clock" into y
   end if
   put (2 * pi / 12) into sRad
   repeat with i = 1 to 12
     put trunc(tR * cos (sRad * i)) + x into a
     put trunc(tR * sin (sRad * i)) + y into b
     if i = 12 or i = 9 then
       repeat for each line j in tAA
         put item 1 of j + a,item 2 of j + b & cr after aTemp
       end repeat
       put cr after aTemp
     else if i mod 3 = 0 then
       repeat for each line j in tA
         put item 1 of j + a,item 2 of j + b & cr after aTemp
       end repeat
       put cr after aTemp
     else put  a,b &  cr &  a,b &  cr & cr after aTemp
   end repeat
   set the points of grc "backFace" to aTemp
   set the points of grc "secondsHand" to ""
   set the rect of grc "secondsHand" to the rect of of grc "backFace"
   set the points of grc "shadowHands" to ""
   set the rect of grc "shadowHands" to the rect of of grc "backFace"
   set the points of grc "timeGraph" to ""
   set the rect of grc "timeGraph" to the rect of of grc "backFace"
   set the runclock of grp "clock" to true
   send "SetHands 0" to grp "clock"
end setBackFace

on goCreateOne
   set the style of the templategraphic to polygon
   set the opaque of the templategraphic to false  ### to make <open> 
polygons
   set the linesize of the templategraphic to 1
   create grc "backFace"
   put the name of grc "backFace" && "and " after tList
   set the colors of grc "backFace" to 88,88,88
   set the linesize of the templategraphic to 2
   create grc "shadowHands"
   put the name of grc "shadowHands" && "and " after tList
   set the colors of grc "shadowHands" to 170,170,170
   set the linesize of the templategraphic to 1
   create grc "timeGraph"
   put the name of grc "timeGraph" && "and " after tList
   set the colors of grc "timeGraph" to 50,50,50
   set the linesize of the templategraphic to 1
   create grc "secondsHand"
   set the colors of grc "secondsHand" to red
   put the name of grc "secondsHand" after tList
   do "group" && tList
   set the name of last grp to "Clock"
   get the script of me
   set the script of grp "clock" to line lineoffset("on SetHands", it) 
to -1 of it
   choose browse tool
end goCreateOne

on SetHands timeOffset
   put (2 * pi / 60) into sRad
   convert the seconds + timeOffset to dateItems
   put (item 4 of it * 5) + (item 5 of it/12) - 15,\
       item 5 of it - 15,item 6 of it - 15,\
       item 6 of it + 15 into tTime
   repeat with j = 1 to 3
     put the loc of me & cr & \
         round(item j of the cHMS of me * cos (sRad * item j of tTime)) 
+ \
         item 1 of the loc of me, \
         round(item j of the cHMS of me * sin (sRad * item j of tTime)) 
+ \
         item 2 of the loc of me & cr after thepoints
   end repeat
   set the points of grc "secondsHand" to line 5 to 6 of thePoints
   set the points of grc "shadowHands" to line 1 to 4 of thePoints
   set the points of grc "timegraph" to line 1 to 4 of thePoints
   if the runclock of me then send "setHands" && timeOffset to me in 1 
sec
end SetHands


Beware of the mail line wraps.
Enjoy,
WA


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 17 12:45:48 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:45:48 +0200
Subject: tiny analog clock
In-Reply-To: <BD2F312B-F06A-11D8-8DA6-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <BD2F312B-F06A-11D8-8DA6-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <E49B0DDA-F06C-11D8-8C7F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Wouter,

Waaaaay cooooool, thanks!!! :-)


Regards & groetjes

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Tue Aug 17 13:58:09 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:58:09 -0600
Subject: tiny analog clock
References: <BD2F312B-F06A-11D8-8DA6-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <004d01c48483$c2f11c20$52d4e6cf@WorkPC>

Excellent job!  This is the kind of creativity that I like to see.  It looks simple, yet so professional!
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 17 12:56:24 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:56:24 -0400
Subject: tiny analog clock
In-Reply-To: <BD2F312B-F06A-11D8-8DA6-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <BD2F312B-F06A-11D8-8DA6-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <5F1B90FE-F06E-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 17, 2004, at 12:30 PM, Wouter wrote:

> For those who like to fiddle with tiny analog clocks put this in a 
> button:

;-D
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Aug 17 13:20:25 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:20:25 -0500
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408161953220.819-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408161953220.819-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <41223E59.7000502@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/16/04 9:53 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> IIRC, there IS a Windows version of Shakobox...

Nope; only for Mac. That's because it uses AppleScript.


> 
> Judy
> 
> On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Erik Hansen wrote:
> 
> 
>>shakobox can also be used to play different
>>musical events simultaneously. Fun!
>>
>>we (I) desperately need Shakobox for Windows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug 17 13:22:44 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:22:44 -0500
Subject: The currently displayed card in another window?
Message-ID: <BD47A914.4103%kray@sonsothunder.com>

Is there any way to get an identifier (name, ID, number) of the currently
displayed card in another stack window *WITHOUT* changing the defaultStack?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Tue Aug 17 13:31:17 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:31:17 +0200
Subject: The currently displayed card in another window?
Message-ID: <3EB1C948-F073-11D8-8DA6-003065CC999E@pi.be>


> 	? 	From: Ken Ray
> 	? 	 Subject: The currently displayed card in another window?
> 	? 	 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:23:35 -0700
>
> Is there any way to get an identifier (name, ID, number) of the 
> currently
> displayed card in another stack window *WITHOUT* changing the 
> defaultStack?
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Yes.

      put the [long] name of this cd of stack <stackname>
or
      put the number of this cd of stack <stackname>
or
      put the [long] id of this cd of stack <stackname>

HTH,
WA


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Aug 17 13:36:43 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:36:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <41223E59.7000502@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408171035360.23285-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I'm NOT on drugs!  (really, I'm not!).

>From Jonathan's post to this list (I think):

OK, I just sent the message out. If you don't see the message appear on
the RunRev list within the next few minutes, forward this to them:

---------- START MESSAGE TO FORWARD ----------

There was an outpouring of enthusiasm on this list when the Shakobox
stack was ported to Revolution and you could finally play scripted
music using its helper application, PlayCommand Agent. A few people
over at the HyperCard Mailing List requested a Windows port, so here it
is:

http://www.angelfire.com/d20/jrdesktop/misc/playcmdwin.zip

It includes the application and the Read Me file.

I haven't done much testing on it, but it should work fine since the
only thing I changed was how to talk to it.

There are two ways to talk to PlayCommand Agent. I haven't done much
testing of this, so I don't know which way will work the best.

One way is from the command line:

PlayCmdAgent quit
PlayCmdAgent play musicbox 100 eq cq eq qr eq cq eq
PlayCmdAgent playstr musicbox eq cq eq qr eq cq eq tempo 100
PlayCmdAgent playnote musicbox 60 127

The syntax is:

PlayCmdAgent quit
PlayCmdAgent play <instrument> <tempo> <notes>
PlayCmdAgent playstr <string>
PlayCmdAgent playnote <instrument> <pitch> <velocity>

The other way is to write one of these commands to a text file in
C:\WINDOWS\ called PLAYCMD.EVT. As soon as the file is readable and
nonempty, the command will be picked up and the file will be deleted
automatically.

BIf you have any questions, please send them to jonrelay

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 8/16/04 9:53 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
>
> > IIRC, there IS a Windows version of Shakobox...
>
> Nope; only for Mac. That's because it uses AppleScript.
>
>
> >
> > Judy
> >
> > On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Erik Hansen wrote:
> >
> >
7napanet.net and
put [HCC] in the subject line. I am not subscribed to this list so I
won't see any responses made on this list.



From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Tue Aug 17 13:39:41 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:39:41 +0200
Subject: tiny analog clock
Message-ID: <6B1E8588-F074-11D8-8DA6-003065CC999E@pi.be>

I didn't realize people liked tiny analog clocks  :-)
Tnx.

WA


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Aug 17 14:04:27 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:04:27 -0500
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408170917390.23285-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408170917390.23285-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <412248AB.5060102@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/17/04 11:19 AM, Judy Perry wrote:

> Jacque:
> 
> Am I on drugs or something?? I thought that Jonathan wrote a Windows
> version after I asked him about it on the HC list.

Well, I can't speak for your personal lifestyle. :) But if Jonathan 
wrote a Windows version he never told me about it. Wish he would.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Aug 17 14:00:29 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:00:29 -0400
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <C3839814-F00B-11D8-8D77-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <535F297A-F077-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Some how it doesn't work.
The script
  myHandler param1

I want to send the handler and a string
send "myHandler" &&"string"  to stack "a" NG
send "myHandler" && string  to stack "a"  NG
send "myHandler" && quote string quote to stack "a" NG
send "myHandler" && quote &string& quote to stack "a" NG
Thanks , Hershel
On Tuesday, August 17, 2004, at 01:10 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

>
>   send "myHandler" && param1 && param2 && paramX to stack "abc"
>
> Beware of commas in your parameters! If you have commas in the 
> parameters (for example a location (143,244) then you need to add 
> quotes around them in the send statement, or have a parameter in the 
> target handler for each one separately:
>
> send "myHandler" && quote & the loc of me & quote to stack "abc"
> or
> myHandler xLoc,yLoc
>
> hope that helped
> Bjoernke von Gierke
>
> On Aug 17 2004, at 06:57, Hershel Fisch wrote:
>
>> Hi all ,
>> How do I send a message with a param ?
>> e.g.  send "myHandler" param1 to stack "abc"
>> Thanks, Hershel
>
>
> <>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
> Chat with other RunRev developers:
> go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.0.rev"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Aug 17 14:13:01 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:13:01 -0400
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <7A381B55-F016-11D8-98A7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <1365EEBE-F079-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, August 17, 2004, at 02:27 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Aug 16, 2004, at 10:57 PM, Hershel Fisch wrote:
>
>> How do I send a message with a param ?
>> e.g.  send "myHandler" param1 to stack "abc"
>
>     send "myHandler param1" to stack "abc"
Sorry, woun,t do it.
Hershel
>
> Dar
>
> ****************************************
>     Dar Scott Consulting
>     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
>     Programming Services
> ****************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Aug 17 14:14:00 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:14:00 -0400
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <142.3115ee5a.2e530082@aol.com>
Message-ID: <367BEFAE-F079-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, August 17, 2004, at 02:32 AM, FlexibleLearning at aol.com 
wrote:

>
>> Hi all ,
>> How do I send a message with a param ?
>>  e.g.  send "myHandler" param1 to stack "abc"
>> Thanks,  Hershel
>
> put the defaultStack into tDefStk
> set the defaultStack to  "abc"
> MyHandler param1
> se tthe defaultStack to tDefStk
Didn't get that .
>
> /H
> Hugh  Senior
> The Flexible Learning Company
> Web: www.FlexibleLearning.com
> E:  h at flexiblelearning.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 17 14:30:39 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:30:39 -0600
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <1365EEBE-F079-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <1365EEBE-F079-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <8A51372B-F07B-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 17, 2004, at 12:13 PM, Hershel Fisch wrote:

>>> How do I send a message with a param ?
>>> e.g.  send "myHandler" param1 to stack "abc"
>>
>>     send "myHandler param1" to stack "abc"
> Sorry, woun,t do it.

I just did it.

I put this handler in the stack script of stack "B"

on myHandler x
   put "[" & x & "]"
end myHandler

I put this handler in a button on card 1 of stack "A"

on mouseUp
   put "abc" into param1
   send "myHandler param1" to stack "B"
end mouseUp

I clicked the button.

Into the message box:
[abc]

It looks to me that this works.  Maybe I didn't understand what you 
need.

Dar

****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Tue Aug 17 14:33:34 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:33:34 -0400
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after
	Quitting
In-Reply-To: <BD479197.40DC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD479197.40DC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <F24E347A-F07B-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

BTW, I have noticed this with some of my programs too (both Windows and 
OS X) -- but inconsistently; it only seems to happen occasionally.  I'm 
still early on in my projects, but if this is an active problem, I will 
need to fix it eventually, so let me know if I can help debug this 
somehow.

(Closing the last window is *supposed to* quit the program, correct?)

Rev Studio 2.2.1, Mac OS X version, building standalones for multiple 
platforms (mostly Win32 and OS X right now).

On Aug 17, 2004, at 11:42, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 8/17/04 8:45 AM, "PaulBuzzy at aol.com" <PaulBuzzy at aol.com> wrote:
>> Now, I have run into a major problem when I create the standalone. 
>> When I
>> open and close ScrapDiary, ?ScrapDiary.exe? shows up in the list of 
>> processes
>> in
>> the Windows Task Manager running under Windows XP.
>
> Paul,
>
> Are you officially executing a "quit" command, or are you just letting 
> the
> closure of the last stack window handle that for you? If it is the 
> latter,
> could you test trapping "closeStackRequest" on your final window and 
> doing
> an official "quit", like:
>
> on closeStackRequest
>   quit
> end closeStackRequest
>
> And then let us know what happened so we can troubleshoot this 
> further...
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 17 14:43:57 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:43:57 -0700
Subject: The currently displayed card in another window?
In-Reply-To: <BD47A914.4103%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD47A914.4103%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <412251ED.4020700@fourthworld.com>

Ken Ray wrote:

> Is there any way to get an identifier (name, ID, number) of the currently
> displayed card in another stack window *WITHOUT* changing the defaultStack?

  get the id of this cd of stack "SomeOtherStack"


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Tue Aug 17 14:45:42 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:45:42 +0200
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after
	Quitting
Message-ID: <A4640352-F07D-11D8-B8FE-003065CC999E@pi.be>

> 	? 	From: Frank D. Engel, Jr.
> 	? 	 Subject: Re: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) 
> after Quitting
> 	? 	 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:33:46 -0700
>
>  BTW, I have noticed this with some of my programs too (both Windows 
> and OS X) -- but inconsistently; it only seems to happen occasionally. 
> I'm still early on in my projects, but if this is an active problem, I 
> will need to fix it eventually, so let me know if I can help debug 
> this somehow.
>
>
> (Closing the last window is *supposed to* quit the program, correct?)

Yes, but if there is a *hidden* stack there is still an open stack when 
closing the last window.
So it  won't quit.


>
> Rev Studio 2.2.1, Mac OS X version, building standalones for multiple 
> platforms (mostly Win32 and OS X right now).

HTH,
WA

From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 17 14:45:21 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:45:21 -0400
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <8A51372B-F07B-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <1365EEBE-F079-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
	<8A51372B-F07B-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <97C66426-F07D-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 17, 2004, at 2:30 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>> Sorry, woun,t do it.
>
> I just did it.

You can also do this

Put "String parameter with spaces and stuff" into tMessage
send "myHandlerName tMessage" to stack "abc"

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Aug 17 14:47:08 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:47:08 -0400
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <97C66426-F07D-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <D7B9F8F9-F07D-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Yes , Thanks
Hershel
On Tuesday, August 17, 2004, at 02:45 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 17, 2004, at 2:30 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>
>>> Sorry, woun,t do it.
>>
>> I just did it.
>
> You can also do this
>
> Put "String parameter with spaces and stuff" into tMessage
> send "myHandlerName tMessage" to stack "abc"
>
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Aug 17 14:50:31 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:50:31 -0400
Subject: IDE slowing down
Message-ID: <505FD5C2-F07E-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi all,
I'm wondering why after using large globals (meaning a few thousand 
lines, the ide slows down ? I quit RR and restart , but doesn't help. I 
have to restart my computer. Mac osx 1.2
Hershel


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Tue Aug 17 14:58:43 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:58:43 -0400
Subject: Detect installed packages under Windows?  (may be slightly OT)
Message-ID: <75CC3153-F07F-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Does anyone know of any easy way to determine if some particular 
software program is installed under Windows?

Specifically, I need to know if the PostgreSQL database server package 
is installed on the computer running a Revolution standalone.

(I would settle for detecting the current beta version installed MSI 
package; I can't just look for the files, since the location might not 
be the default one).

Thank you!



___________________________________________________________
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From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Tue Aug 17 14:59:37 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:59:37 -0400
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after
	Quitting
In-Reply-To: <A4640352-F07D-11D8-B8FE-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <A4640352-F07D-11D8-B8FE-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <95C73F1C-F07F-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Nope.  There may be other closed stacks in memory, but I don't hide my 
stacks for any of these programs.

On Aug 17, 2004, at 14:45, Wouter wrote:

>> 	? 	From: Frank D. Engel, Jr.
>> 	? 	 Subject: Re: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager 
>> (XP) after Quitting
>> 	? 	 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:33:46 -0700
>>
>>  BTW, I have noticed this with some of my programs too (both Windows 
>> and OS X) -- but inconsistently; it only seems to happen 
>> occasionally. I'm still early on in my projects, but if this is an 
>> active problem, I will need to fix it eventually, so let me know if I 
>> can help debug this somehow.
>>
>>
>> (Closing the last window is *supposed to* quit the program, correct?)
>
> Yes, but if there is a *hidden* stack there is still an open stack 
> when closing the last window.
> So it  won't quit.
>
>
>>
>> Rev Studio 2.2.1, Mac OS X version, building standalones for multiple 
>> platforms (mostly Win32 and OS X right now).
>
> HTH,
> WA
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



___________________________________________________________
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 17 15:04:39 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:04:39 -0700
Subject: IDE slowing down
In-Reply-To: <505FD5C2-F07E-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <505FD5C2-F07E-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <412256C7.2040605@fourthworld.com>

Hershel Fisch wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm wondering why after using large globals (meaning a few thousand 
> lines, the ide slows down ? I quit RR and restart , but doesn't help. I 
> have to restart my computer. Mac osx 1.2

What suggests the problem is with the globals?  What else does your app do?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From PaulBuzzy at aol.com  Tue Aug 17 15:08:06 2004
From: PaulBuzzy at aol.com (PaulBuzzy at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:08:06 EDT
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after
	Quitting
Message-ID: <1ef.280f236e.2e53b196@aol.com>

Dear Ken:

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm looking through my code and I think I may be 
preventing some of the close stack calls. The substacks override the main 
stack's close stack handler, because the main stack closes all of the substacks. I 
may not be handling the pass close stack properly. The main stack does use the 
quit command if quit is selected from the file menu though. I'll try your 
suggestion though. Thanks again. Paul.

From PaulBuzzy at aol.com  Tue Aug 17 15:09:09 2004
From: PaulBuzzy at aol.com (PaulBuzzy at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:09:09 EDT
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after
	Quitting
Message-ID: <1d5.28ec8dd9.2e53b1d5@aol.com>

I'll keep you posted if I figure out where I am making the mistake. Thanks.

From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Aug 17 15:06:03 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:06:03 -0400
Subject: IDE slowing down
In-Reply-To: <412256C7.2040605@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <7C3475EA-F080-11D8-80BC-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, August 17, 2004, at 03:04 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Hershel Fisch wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I'm wondering why after using large globals (meaning a few thousand 
>> lines, the ide slows down ? I quit RR and restart , but doesn't help. 
>> I have to restart my computer. Mac osx 1.2
>
> What suggests the problem is with the globals?  What else does your 
> app do?
Database records handling, business application. Till I don't do major 
record search or search all it is fast , very fast. Where I see the 
most speed decrease is is in the editor or messageBox. I definitely see 
some kind of memory loss.
Hershel
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 17 15:21:33 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:21:33 -0600
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after
	Quitting
In-Reply-To: <1a8.27575a7c.2e5365f5@aol.com>
References: <1a8.27575a7c.2e5365f5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A6271678-F082-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 17, 2004, at 7:45 AM, PaulBuzzy at aol.com wrote:

> If I click the button and use the revSpeak command,
> the standalone also remains in the process list of Windows Task 
> Manager, even
> after quitting.

I think the application will not quit if pendingMessages is not empty.  
If you have some sort of send cycle going on, or the generation of 
status messages, then that might cause a problem like this.

Dar

****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug 17 15:22:08 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:22:08 -0500
Subject: The currently displayed card in another window?
In-Reply-To: <412251ED.4020700@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BD47C510.4130%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/17/04 1:43 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> Ken Ray wrote:
> 
>> Is there any way to get an identifier (name, ID, number) of the currently
>> displayed card in another stack window *WITHOUT* changing the defaultStack?
> 
>   get the id of this cd of stack "SomeOtherStack"

Thanks... for some reason I was thinking "current" instead of "this" and (of
course) it didn't work.

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 17 15:27:36 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:27:36 -0600
Subject: What is the word for "call" but not using the 'call' command
Message-ID: <7E855BF7-F083-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

Consider this handler:

on doSomething
    doThis
    doThat
end doSomething

I would normally say that doSomething calls doThat.  But there is a 
command called 'call'.  Is there a prefered xTalk word?  Executes?  
Invokes?  Uses?  (Hmmm, sounds like 'start using'...)  Directly calls?

Dar

****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From PaulBuzzy at aol.com  Tue Aug 17 15:32:20 2004
From: PaulBuzzy at aol.com (PaulBuzzy at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:32:20 EDT
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after
	Quitting
Message-ID: <fb.5ea1a38d.2e53b744@aol.com>

OK, thanks

From PaulBuzzy at aol.com  Tue Aug 17 15:33:09 2004
From: PaulBuzzy at aol.com (PaulBuzzy at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:33:09 EDT
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after
	Quitting
Message-ID: <143.30c6ff53.2e53b775@aol.com>

OKI, I have a lot of things to check. Thanks for all of your suggestions.

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug 17 15:37:02 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:37:02 -0500
Subject: Detect installed packages under Windows?  (may be slightly OT)
In-Reply-To: <75CC3153-F07F-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <BD47C88E.4139%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/17/04 1:58 PM, "Frank D. Engel, Jr." <fde101 at fjrhome.net> wrote:

> Does anyone know of any easy way to determine if some particular
> software program is installed under Windows?
> 
> Specifically, I need to know if the PostgreSQL database server package
> is installed on the computer running a Revolution standalone.


Frank, the basic approach is to look in the Registry, but since I don't have
PostgreSQL, I don't know what to look for...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From laguer at ucs.orst.edu  Tue Aug 17 15:41:50 2004
From: laguer at ucs.orst.edu (Rich Lague)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:41:50 -0700
Subject: next repeat problem
In-Reply-To: <6D8A6C7C-F06A-11D8-8C7F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <7C076A9B-F085-11D8-938B-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>

Thanks Klaus (and Jan!),

Yes, adding the complete descriptor for i did allow my 'next repeat' to 
run. However, I'm still having problems getting rid of the extra lines 
in my global variable.
I have also been trying your suggestion of using 'repeat for each'.

I get an error when I try to 'apply' this script--

---------------------------------------------------------------
set the itemdel to tab
repeat for each line i in fld "daTable"
if i = empty then
delete line i of fld "daTable"
else
put item 1 of field "daTable"  & return after theList
end if
end repeat

--------------------------------------------------------------
The error I get is "Chunk: error in chunk expression" and it highlights 
the line "put item 1 of field "daTable"  & return after theList" -- 
this is a line of the script that worked before...

Rich

On Tuesday, August 17, 2004, at 09:28  AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Rich,
>
>> I'm trying to get rid of blank lines in a global variable by using 
>> the "next repeat" control structure to stop them from being put into 
>> the variable in the first place. I keep getting errors-- but only 
>> when I include the "next repeat" line. Here is the script:
>>
>> on upDateTopicsRequest
>>   global theList, order, theListPlus, currentListNam
>>
>>   put empty into theList
>>   ask "Would you like to save your current list?"
>>   if it is empty then beep
>>   else
>>     put it into field "listName"
>>     put it into currentListNam
>>
>>     set the itemDelimiter to tab
>>     repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines in field "daTable"
>>    ##   if  line i is empty then next repeat
> ## Does this work?
>        if  line i of field "daTable" = empty then next repeat
> ## Need the complete descriptor for i...
>
>>       put item 1 of line i of field "daTable" & return after theList
>>     end repeat
>>     put the number of lines of theList into order
>>     put field "daTable" into theListPlus --extract the descriptors in 
>> productEval stack
>>
>>   end if
>>
>> end upDateTopicsRequest
>>
>>
>> 	"daTable" is a table field. If I exclude the "next repeat" line I do 
>> not get an error, but I get a lot of blank lines in the global 
>> variable "theList". This, in turn, causes other problems down the 
>> line. The error I get when I hit the "Apply" button is "if missing 
>> 'then'.
>> 	Is there a better way of excluding the blank lines in the field 
>> "daTable" from my global variable?
>
> If you have MANY lines you could save some time using "repeat for 
> each..."
>
> ...
> set the itemdel to TAB
> repeat for each line i in fld "daTable"
>    if i <> empty then
>       put item 1 of i & CR after theList
>    end if
> end repeat
> ...
>
> Insanely fast :-D
>
> Hope that helps...
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rich Lague
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 17 15:41:11 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:41:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What is the word for "call" but not using the 'call' command
In-Reply-To: <7E855BF7-F083-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040817194111.54649.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> Consider this handler:
> 
> on doSomething
>     doThis
>     doThat
> end doSomething
> 
> I would normally say that doSomething calls doThat. 
> But there is a 
> command called 'call'.  Is there a prefered xTalk
> word?  Executes?  
> Invokes?  Uses?  (Hmmm, sounds like 'start
> using'...)  Directly calls?
> 
> Dar
> 

Hi Dar,

I'd go for 'invoke' but I've been taking a VB.NET
course so you shouldn't always trust my views ;-)

Jan Schenkel

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 17 15:44:40 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:44:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: next repeat problem
In-Reply-To: <7C076A9B-F085-11D8-938B-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <20040817194440.93603.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Rich Lague <laguer at ucs.orst.edu> wrote:
> Thanks Klaus (and Jan!),
> 
> Yes, adding the complete descriptor for i did allow
> my 'next repeat' to 
> run. However, I'm still having problems getting rid
> of the extra lines 
> in my global variable.
> I have also been trying your suggestion of using
> 'repeat for each'.
> 
> I get an error when I try to 'apply' this script--
> 
>
---------------------------------------------------------------
> set the itemdel to tab
> repeat for each line i in fld "daTable"
> if i = empty then
> delete line i of fld "daTable"
> else
> put item 1 of field "daTable"  & return after
> theList
> end if
> end repeat
> 
>
--------------------------------------------------------------
> The error I get is "Chunk: error in chunk
> expression" and it highlights 
> the line "put item 1 of field "daTable"  & return
> after theList" -- 
> this is a line of the script that worked before...
> 
> Rich
> 

Hi Rich,

Glad to be of help. I think the engine is not sure
what you're trying to do, so you need to hlp it a bit
with parentheses :
  put (item 1 of field "daTable") & return after
theList

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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From kevin at runrev.com  Tue Aug 17 15:51:48 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:51:48 +0100
Subject: 2.5 Beta 2
Message-ID: <BD482064.3143%kevin@runrev.com>

Hi Everyone,

Beta 2, which is the last scheduled public test release of 2.5, is up.  This
is your last chance to test 2.5 and report problems before we ship.

Please note this version requires a new key.  If your license has not
expired you can request a new key be issued automatically from:

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/updatekeyrequest.shtml

The changes to the key generation system will make it much easier for us to
issue updates and lost keys in the future.  It is a big step forward in the
service we will be able to offer you.  However, the system is new and still
being tested.  Please do not contact support without exhausting use of the
automated system and waiting the period specified in any email it sends you.

*WE ARE STILL TESTING THE KEY ISSUING SYSTEM, IF THE EMAIL YOU RECEIVE SAYS
YOUR KEY IS GOING TO BE ISSUED MANUALLY, DO NOT CONTACT SUPPORT*

The file format has changed in this release.  This is a minor change which
in no way affects backward compatibility.  The details will not be made
public.  As with all beta test releases, back up your stacks before using
with this release.

We have tracked down most of the issues reported against beta 1.  However we
have still been unable to locate the cause of a few types of crash reported
against beta 1.  The purpose of this beta is to track those down, and to
check that there are no other stability issues, before we ship this as the
final release.  To help us do that, the engines have increased debugging
information and will write out data about their state to the console.
Please include this information, together with the crash log with any crash
report.  Please also try to include a recipe if you have one.  We hope the
additional debug data will be enough, but a recipe remains the *only* way to
be sure we can fix something, so please send one in *if at all possible*!

This version also ships with a new logging mode.  If you are having problems
or anticipate problems, please run revVerboseDebug true in the message box.
This property is persistent between sessions and only needs to be set once.
Revolution will write a complete message log to a file, veboseLog.txt in the
Revolution directory as it runs.  Please include a compressed version of
this log file with a crash log.  Note that this file is erased when
Revolution is restarted, so you need to copy this file and send in a report
before reopening Revolution.

Parts of the Learning Center have now been uploaded for use with this
release.  We are aware of an issue on Rev Online where images will highlight
incorrectly under certain circumstances, we are working on it.  In order to
view the videos, you will need to download the Ensharpen decoder from the
bottom of the page at:
http://www.techsmith.com/download/ensharpendefault.asp?lid=DownloadEnSharpen

The release version will include this codec in the distribution and prompt
to install it automatically.  Also note that some of the videos that are up
are marked as requiring a key.  In the final release only the more advanced
topics will require a key.  Right now we are testing our key issuing
mechanism so have marked some of the Getting Started videos as not
available, even though these will be free to all in the release.  All Studio
and Enterprise customers with active licenses will get a free key to access
all videos, including the advanced topics.

The URLs are as follows.  In this release we have included both Linux and
Classic builds, along with Mac OS X and Windows:

Linux:

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B2/linux.tgz
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B2/revolution-2.5-b2.i386.r
pm

Mac OS X:

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B2/revolutionosx.dmg

Mac OS Classic:

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B2/revolution.sit

Windows (no installer):

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B2/revolution.zip

Windows (with installer):

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B2/revsetup.exe

Finally, thanks for all the great feedback on the test releases to date.

Enjoy!

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Tue Aug 17 15:58:12 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:58:12 EDT
Subject: tiny analog clock  
Message-ID: <1df.2837aecc.2e53bd54@aol.com>

 
 
I wish to award Wouter a prize for scripting elegance.
 
/H



From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 17 16:08:08 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:08:08 -0400
Subject: tiny analog clock  
In-Reply-To: <1df.2837aecc.2e53bd54@aol.com>
References: <1df.2837aecc.2e53bd54@aol.com>
Message-ID: <286553A1-F089-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 17, 2004, at 3:58 PM, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:

> I wish to award Wouter a prize for scripting elegance.

Seconded.

It isn't about the clock. It is about the coolness of the approach.

Bravo!
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Aug 17 16:18:08 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:18:08 -0700
Subject: tiny analog clock
In-Reply-To: <BD2F312B-F06A-11D8-8DA6-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <BD2F312B-F06A-11D8-8DA6-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <16212018351.20040817131808@ahsoftware.net>

Wouter-

!!!

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From katir at hindu.org  Tue Aug 17 16:57:08 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:57:08 -1000
Subject: Faceless MC -- Memory Failure
Message-ID: <009B5276-F090-11D8-BFDB-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Greetings,

I'm trying to write a filter for a Linux system using x-talk rather than
C, Perl, etc .. and I am running out of memory.  My mc interpreter is
failing with s signal 11 and giving this message:

  /usr/local/bin/mc: out of memory

The problem is I suppose due to the size of the data file I'm trying to
process in a single container - it's nearly 800 Meg.  Files almost as
large make it ok though.

I am hoping maybe a newer version would help, or, switch to the Rev
engine.  This is on SuSE Linux.  You might ask, which version of the
MC interpreter do you have?  Ah .. not sure, it appears to have been
installed April 2003 .. the size is:

1889896 Apr 18  2003 /usr/local/bin/mc

Another option might be to rewrite my filter in some more efficient
manner.  I'll probably try that approach too, I have a couple ideas.

In any case, I'd appreciate your thoughts if you have a suggestion.
Source code below.

Aloha,
Sadhu Nadesan
sadhu at castandcrew.com



-------------------cut here----------------------
#!/usr/local/bin/mc
######################################################################## 
#######
#
#                            -=< Payroll II >=-
#         Copyright (c) Cast & Crew Entertainment Services, Inc. 2004
#
#     Program name:     adjustment_dater
#        File name:     adjustment_dater.mt
#           Author:     Sadhunathan Nadesan
#     Date started:     08/11/2004
#
#     Description:
#       Pre processing for MT RTS file, put PC check date into PR checks
#
######################################################################## 
#######

on startup

   put $1 into inputFile
   open file inputFile for read
   read from file inputFile until eof
   put it into inputData
   close file inputFile

   // find reversed checks
   repeat for each line thisLine in inputData
     if (char 1 to 2 of thisLine contains "PC") then
       put char 4 to 11 of thisLine \ -- reversed by ck seq #
         & "|" \
         & char 13 to 22 of thisLine \ -- check effective date
         & linefeed after pcDateArray
     end if -- a reversed check
   end repeat

   split pcDateArray by linefeed and "|"

   // patch the date of the reversing check
   repeat for each line thisLine in inputData
     if (char 1 to 2 of thisLine contains "PR") then
         put char 24 to 31 of thisLine into sequenceNumber
         put pcDateArray[sequenceNumber] into char 13 to 22 of thisLine
     end if -- reversing check

   // now pass the modified data on
     put thisLine
   end repeat

end startup


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Aug 17 17:02:56 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:02:56 -0700
Subject: tiny analog clock
In-Reply-To: <6B1E8588-F074-11D8-8DA6-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <6B1E8588-F074-11D8-8DA6-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <16214706566.20040817140256@ahsoftware.net>

Wouter-

I've always much preferred analog clocks to digital ones. The problem
with digital watches and such is you lose your sense of relative time.
7:45 doesn't convey nearly the information of "a quarter to eight".

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net

Tuesday, August 17, 2004, 10:39:41 AM, you wrote:

W> I didn't realize people liked tiny analog clocks  :-)
W> Tnx.



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug 17 17:18:39 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:18:39 -0500
Subject: What is the word for "call" but not using the 'call' command
In-Reply-To: <7E855BF7-F083-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BD47E05F.4151%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/17/04 2:27 PM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> Consider this handler:
> 
> on doSomething
>     doThis
>     doThat
> end doSomething
> 
> I would normally say that doSomething calls doThat.  But there is a
> command called 'call'.  Is there a prefered xTalk word?  Executes?
> Invokes?  Uses?  (Hmmm, sounds like 'start using'...)  Directly calls?

How about "runs"?

doSomething runs doThat


Personally, I use "executes", but thought I'd offer a different approach...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From briany at qldlearning.com  Tue Aug 17 17:38:40 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:38:40 -0400
Subject: Faceless MC -- Memory Failure
In-Reply-To: <009B5276-F090-11D8-BFDB-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <CE0531EA-F095-11D8-B44C-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Sadhu,

I would suggest just defining a constant for how many lines to read at 
once, and read from the files in chunks. Alternatively, you could pass 
the number of lines to read at once in $2. I really don't think you 
want to be reading the entire file at once if there's any chance of 
800MB or larger files- that'll eat up gigabytes of RAM by the time you 
process it...

I would try looking at one of your sample files, and figure out about 
how many lines make up 1MB, and then extrapolate from there how many 
lines you'd like to process based on how much memory you want to use.

EX:

constant kNumberOfLines = 20000
on startup
    put $1 into inputFile
    open file inputFile
    repeat
       read from file inputFile for kNumberOfLines lines
       if (it is empty) then exit repeat
      processData it
    end repeat
   close file inputFile
end startup

on processData inputData
   // find reversed checks
   repeat for each line thisLine in inputData
     if (char 1 to 2 of thisLine contains "PC") then
       put char 4 to 11 of thisLine \ -- reversed by ck seq #
         & "|" \
         & char 13 to 22 of thisLine \ -- check effective date
         & linefeed after pcDateArray
     end if -- a reversed check
   end repeat

   split pcDateArray by linefeed and "|"

   // patch the date of the reversing check
   repeat for each line thisLine in inputData
     if (char 1 to 2 of thisLine contains "PR") then
         put char 24 to 31 of thisLine into sequenceNumber
         put pcDateArray[sequenceNumber] into char 13 to 22 of thisLine
     end if -- reversing check

   // now pass the modified data on
     put thisLine
   end repeat
end processData


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Tue Aug 17 17:59:53 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:59:53 -0400
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after
	Quitting
In-Reply-To: <143.30c6ff53.2e53b775@aol.com>
References: <143.30c6ff53.2e53b775@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C4F47E20-F098-11D8-9F5B-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Actually, this happens on Mac OS X as follows:

My main stack has a button marked "Exit".  The script is thus:

on mouseUp
   close this stack
end mouseUp


Truly simple.  No other stacks are open.  Clicking the button closes 
the stack window, but *does not* quit the application.

I also intercept and "pass" both closeStackRequest and shutdownRequest. 
  Clicking on the window's close box yields
the correct behavior (the application quits).


On Aug 17, 2004, at 15:33, PaulBuzzy at aol.com wrote:

> OKI, I have a lot of things to check. Thanks for all of your 
> suggestions.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



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From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 17 18:04:46 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:04:46 +0200
Subject: next repeat problem
In-Reply-To: <7C076A9B-F085-11D8-938B-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>
References: <7C076A9B-F085-11D8-938B-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <73BE5834-F099-11D8-8C7F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Rich,

> Thanks Klaus (and Jan!),
>
> Yes, adding the complete descriptor for i did allow my 'next repeat' 
> to run. However, I'm still having problems getting rid of the extra 
> lines in my global variable.
> I have also been trying your suggestion of using 'repeat for each'.
>
> I get an error when I try to 'apply' this script--
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> set the itemdel to tab
> repeat for each line i in fld "daTable"
> if i = empty then
> delete line i of fld "daTable"
> else
> put item 1 of field "daTable"  & return after theList
> end if
> end repeat
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> The error I get is "Chunk: error in chunk expression" and it 
> highlights the line "put item 1 of field "daTable"  & return after 
> theList" -- this is a line of the script that worked before...

"repeat for each xyz" is READ only!!!

Means you cannot manipulate "i" in this case AND "i" holds the
CONTENTS of line i, therefore it is no number and the error is correct 
;-)

If you need the current loop number, you can use this old trick:

set the itemdel to tab
put 1 into my_counter
repeat for each line i in fld "daTable"
    if i = empty then delete line my_counter of fld "daTable"
         else
        ###    put item 1 of field "daTable"  & return after theList
        ###????? Nonono, did not write this ;-)
            put item 1 of i & CR after theList
    end if
add 1 to my_counter
end repeat
...

> Rich

>> ...
>> set the itemdel to TAB
>> repeat for each line i in fld "daTable"
>>    if i <> empty then
>>       put item 1 of i & CR after theList
###!!!
>>    end if
>> end repeat
>> ...
>>

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From tuviah at runrev.com  Tue Aug 17 18:14:47 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:14:47 -0400
Subject: IDE slowing down
References: <20040817211707.4349D9300CF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00d501c484a7$9b85d260$1602a8c0@athlon>

>Database records handling, business application. Till I don't do major 
>record search or search all it is fast , very fast. Where I see the 
>most speed decrease is is in the editor or messageBox. I definitely see 
>some kind of memory loss.
Can't verify any memory loss with mallocdebug.

Best,
Tuviah

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 17 18:17:07 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <7A381B55-F016-11D8-98A7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040817221707.68936.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> > How do I send a message with a param?
> 
>      send "myHandler param1" to stack "abc"

after trying all sorts of things like
send "myHandler" && ("guy" & comma & i)
which usually work,  i have settled on
the Dar's Razor approach:

on Andale
...
put ("guy" & comma & i) into pClumpsOfStuff
send "setDancers pClumpsOfStuff" to \
stack (the mainstack) in tSpeed milliseconds
...
end Andale

on setDancers pClumpsOfStuff
-- IMPORTANT --
put item 1 of pClumpsOfStuff into pWho
put item 2 of pClumpsOfStuff into i
...
end setDancers

setDancers ignores any parameters beyond 1.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 17 18:23:19 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:23:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What is the word for "call" but not using the 'call' command
In-Reply-To: <BD47E05F.4151%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20040817222319.70197.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>

> On 8/17/04 2:27 PM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Consider this handler:
> > 
> > on doSomething
> >     doThis
> >     doThat
> > end doSomething
> > 
> > I would normally say that doSomething calls
> doThat.  But there is a
> > command called 'call'.  Is there a prefered
> xTalk word?  Executes?
> > Invokes?  Uses?  (Hmmm, sounds like 'start
> using'...)  Directly calls?

"activates" as with neural networks?

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________________________
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 17 18:29:15 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:29:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Localization
In-Reply-To: <81CF2156-F02D-11D8-8C7F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20040817222915.59403.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

>   switch
>    case "Sonntag" is among the lines of the
> system weekdaynames
>      put "d" into sprache
>      break
>    case "Zondaag" is among the lines of the
> system weekdaynames
>      put "hl" into sprache
>      break
>    case "Sondaag" is among the lines of the
> system weekdaynames
>      put "af" into sprache
>      break
>    case "Dimanche" is among the lines of the
> system weekdaynames
>      put "fr" into sprache
>      break
>    case "Domenica" is among the lines of the
> system weekdaynames
>      put "it" into sprache
>      break
>    case "Domingo" is among the lines of the
> system weekdaynames
>      put "sp" into sprache
>      break
>    default
>      put "gb" into sprache
>      break
> ...
> 
> Hope that helps

anti-Dansk?

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
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From moe2 at shaw.ca  Tue Aug 17 18:30:08 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:30:08 -0700
Subject: checking/unchecking menus after a menu with cascading menus
In-Reply-To: <p061005ecbd4689abf6a6@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <BD47D500.7111%moe2@shaw.ca>


i have not posted the script because i am still in a struggle with it ...
this is the way to learn RR. i am retired so i have lots of time to spend at
this. i will post as soon as i get it working or when i am totally
exasperated. i want to share the working script with all here at RR ...
especially the beginners with RR ... those how do not think this is easy and
common :-)

maybe what i post will get included in the RR documentation since it is not
as simple as: 

    set the checkMark of menuItem "sub sub menuItem" \
    of menu "sub menu" of button "whatever" to \
    not the checkMark of menuItem "sub sub menuItem" \
    of menu "sub menu" of button "whatever"

to toggle a checkMark before a cascade menuItem

thank you for this comment Jeanne A. E. DeVoto

i have also been inspired by some of your postings in the past, thank you
for those too

moe

==========

on 2004/08/16 8:57 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at revolution at jaedworks.com
wrote:

> At 3:52 PM -0700 8/15/2004, moe2 at shaw.ca wrote:
>> you are correct ... to be able to check and uncheck menuItems in a cascading
>> menu (also, that these cascade menuItems are in a button with other
>> menuItems)
>> 
>> as for "easy to do in Rev."  ... this i have yet to see!
>> so far i have not been able to do this
> 
> Moe, posting your code that is not having the desired effect will
> probably make this process much quicker.


From jan.decroos at groepvanroey.be  Tue Aug 17 18:44:38 2004
From: jan.decroos at groepvanroey.be (Jan Decroos)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:44:38 +0200
Subject: next repeat problem
In-Reply-To: <20040817211707.84CCA9300AD@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040817211707.84CCA9300AD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <fc.0073fc4600134d313b9aca00809d6f71.134d35@groepvanroey.be>

FYI: Instead of a repeat, you can filter out the blank lines by ... the filter
command:

function RemoveEmptyLines pData
  filter pData without empty
  return (pData)
end RemoveEmptyLines



Jan


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Aug 17 18:46:01 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:46:01 -0700
Subject: What is the word for "call" but not using the 'call' command
In-Reply-To: <7E855BF7-F083-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <7E855BF7-F083-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <p06100569bd483af73c10@[66.93.39.98]>

At 1:27 PM -0600 8/17/2004, Dar Scott wrote:
>Consider this handler:
>
>on doSomething
>    doThis
>    doThat
>end doSomething
>
>I would normally say that doSomething calls doThat.  But there is a 
>command called 'call'.  Is there a prefered xTalk word?  Executes? 
>Invokes?  Uses?  (Hmmm, sounds like 'start using'...)  Directly 
>calls?

"Call" seems fine to me in this context. (After all, it's why the 
call command is called that, and not the "invoke" command, or...)

You could also say that doSomething sends a doThis message.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 17 18:49:06 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:49:06 -0600
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <20040817221707.68936.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040817221707.68936.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A53A631C-F09F-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 17, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:

> after trying all sorts of things like
> send "myHandler" && ("guy" & comma & i)
> which usually work,  i have settled on
> the Dar's Razor approach:

I know you are settled, but...

   put "guy" into gender
   send "myHandler gender, i" to ...

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Aug 17 18:49:28 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:49:28 -0500
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408171035360.23285-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408171035360.23285-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <41228B78.6030605@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/17/04 12:36 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> I'm NOT on drugs!  (really, I'm not!).
> 
>>From Jonathan's post to this list (I think):
> 
> OK, I just sent the message out. If you don't see the message appear on
> the RunRev list within the next few minutes, forward this to them:
> 
> ---------- START MESSAGE TO FORWARD ----------
> 
> There was an outpouring of enthusiasm on this list when the Shakobox
> stack was ported to Revolution and you could finally play scripted
> music using its helper application, PlayCommand Agent. A few people
> over at the HyperCard Mailing List requested a Windows port, so here it
> is:

Whoa. How'd I miss that? I guess I'll have to check it out. Thanks for 
the heads-up -- makes me wonder which of us really is on drugs. :)

If anyone else tries this before I do, could you drop me a note and let 
me know how it works? It may be a while before I can get to it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 17 18:56:09 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:56:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <A53A631C-F09F-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040817225609.72729.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> > after trying all sorts of things like
> > send "myHandler" && ("guy" & comma & i)
> > which usually work,  i have settled on
> > the Dar's Razor approach:
> 
> I know you are settled, but...
> 
>    put "guy" into gender
>    send "myHandler gender, i" to ...

so you do not like sending literals as
parameters?
this is IMPORTANT!

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
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From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 17 19:14:33 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:14:33 -0600
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <20040817225609.72729.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040817225609.72729.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <32D87651-F0A3-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 17, 2004, at 4:56 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:

>>> after trying all sorts of things like
>>> send "myHandler" && ("guy" & comma & i)
>>> which usually work,  i have settled on
>>> the Dar's Razor approach:
>>
>> I know you are settled, but...
>>
>>    put "guy" into gender
>>    send "myHandler gender, i" to ...
>
> so you do not like sending literals as
> parameters?
> this is IMPORTANT!

I'm lazy and don't want to have to keep up with quote.

Also, this allows me to read the command that I'm sending.

So, yeah, a safe style is to avoid non-number literals as parameters in 
send.  Or maybe a lazy style.

Note that send is much like a 'do' and can even have a comment in the 
handler spec.

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 17 19:24:00 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:24:00 -0600
Subject: What is the word for "call" but not using the 'call' command
In-Reply-To: <p06100569bd483af73c10@[66.93.39.98]>
References: <7E855BF7-F083-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<p06100569bd483af73c10@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <8512FB0A-F0A4-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 17, 2004, at 4:46 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> "Call" seems fine to me in this context. (After all, it's why the call 
> command is called that, and not the "invoke" command, or...)
>
> You could also say that doSomething sends a doThis message.

OK, but how do I describe this:

on doSomething
    doThis
    call "doThat" of button "A"
    send "doOther" to button "B"
end doSomething

If I use "call" or "send" to describe what doSomething does with 
doThis, how do I describe what it does with doThat and doOther?  Would 
"of" and "to" in such a description imply what I want?

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Aug 17 19:42:41 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:42:41 -0400
Subject: IDE slowing down
In-Reply-To: <00d501c484a7$9b85d260$1602a8c0@athlon>
Message-ID: <2180B576-F0A7-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, August 17, 2004, at 06:14 PM, tuviah snyder wrote:

>> Database records handling, business application. Till I don't do major
>> record search or search all it is fast , very fast. Where I see the
>> most speed decrease is is in the editor or messageBox. I definitely 
>> see
>> some kind of memory loss.
> Can't verify any memory loss with mallocdebug.
You probably are getting to technical for me , when I'm completely not 
, the bottom line is when I restart then it gets back to normal and 
before the restart I can have a cigarette (maybe not a whole one LOL) 
between every char that comes on the screen in the editor.
Hershel
>
> Best,
> Tuviah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Tue Aug 17 20:01:18 2004
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:01:18 +1000
Subject: next repeat problem
In-Reply-To: <20040817211706.EA3749300CA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040817211706.EA3749300CA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB416488-F0A9-11D8-BEB2-000A95A261D2@dvkconsult.com.au>


On 18/08/2004, at 7:17, Rich Lague <laguer at ucs.orst.edu> wrote:
>
> Thanks Klaus (and Jan!),
>
> Yes, adding the complete descriptor for i did allow my 'next repeat' 
> to run. However, I'm still having problems getting rid of the extra 
> lines in my global variable.
> I have also been trying your suggestion of using 'repeat for each'.
>
> I get an error when I try to 'apply' this script--
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> set the itemdel to tab
> repeat for each line i in fld "daTable"
> if i = empty then
> delete line i of fld "daTable"
> else
> put item 1 of field "daTable"  & return after theList
> end if
> end repeat
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> The error I get is "Chunk: error in chunk expression" and it 
> highlights the line "put item 1 of field "daTable"  & return after 
> theList" -- this is a line of the script that worked before...

Rich

Please go back to the sample code sent to you by Klaus. "Repeat for 
each" does not allow you to manipulate the lines of data in your source 
file. By trying to delete something to which it thinks it is pointing, 
you are confusing it, hence the error. When changing data using "Repeat 
for each" always move the lines you want, modified as you please, to a 
new container. As Klaus shows, this simply involves copying non-empty 
lines and is damn fast.

regards
David


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 17 20:08:14 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:08:14 -0400
Subject: next repeat problem
In-Reply-To: <BB416488-F0A9-11D8-BEB2-000A95A261D2@dvkconsult.com.au>
References: <20040817211706.EA3749300CA@mail.runrev.com>
	<BB416488-F0A9-11D8-BEB2-000A95A261D2@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <B2FACA82-F0AA-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 17, 2004, at 8:01 PM, David Vaughan wrote:

> Please go back to the sample code sent to you by Klaus. "Repeat for 
> each" does not allow you to manipulate the lines of data in your 
> source file. By trying to delete something to which it thinks it is 
> pointing, you are confusing it, hence the error. When changing data 
> using "Repeat for each" always move the lines you want, modified as 
> you please, to a new container. As Klaus shows, this simply involves 
> copying non-empty lines and is damn fast.

True, but for that sort of function, "filter" is just amazing. No 
copying, no repeat loop.

In the end, either one works great.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From PaulBuzzy at aol.com  Tue Aug 17 20:24:57 2004
From: PaulBuzzy at aol.com (PaulBuzzy at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:24:57 EDT
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after
	Quitting
Message-ID: <129.48e85c71.2e53fbd9@aol.com>

Yes, that did the trick! Thanks.

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 17 20:25:44 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <32D87651-F0A3-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040818002544.83740.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> put "guy" into gender
> send "myHandler gender, i" to ...

ever have any problems with the space
after the comma?

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From PaulBuzzy at aol.com  Tue Aug 17 20:26:02 2004
From: PaulBuzzy at aol.com (PaulBuzzy at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:26:02 EDT
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows Task Manager (XP) after
	Quitting
Message-ID: <147.31436166.2e53fc1a@aol.com>

Yes, as Dar pointed out, making surfe that pendingMessages is empty does the 
trick

From PaulBuzzy at aol.com  Tue Aug 17 20:32:36 2004
From: PaulBuzzy at aol.com (PaulBuzzy at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:32:36 EDT
Subject: Standalone still active in Windows... New problem -
	revUnloadSpeech error
Message-ID: <36.5ff018a9.2e53fda4@aol.com>

If one uses the revSpeak handler in a standalone, the application does not 
quit properly - it is still listed in the Windows Task Manager, at least on 
Windows XP. According to the documentation in RR2.2, one should use the 
revUnloadSpeech handler when quitting or closing the stack etc. However, I get a "Can't 
find handler" error message if I try to use this handler. Has anyone else seen 
this problem?

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 17 20:38:05 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:38:05 -0700
Subject: [OT] Extracting chapter track timecodes?
Message-ID: <4122A4ED.3050508@fourthworld.com>

I know how to import chapter track info into QT movies using QT Player, 
but anyone have a recipe for exporting that info from movies that 
already have chapters?

TIA -
-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 17 21:02:38 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:02:38 -0600
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <20040818002544.83740.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040818002544.83740.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C66DE56-F0B2-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Aug 17, 2004, at 6:25 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:
>> put "guy" into gender
>> send "myHandler gender, i" to ...
>
> ever have any problems with the space
> after the comma?

No.  -- dar

****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 17 21:14:09 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:14:09 -0400
Subject: send message with parameter
In-Reply-To: <20040818002544.83740.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040818002544.83740.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E86C25F4-F0B3-11D8-80FE-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 17, 2004, at 8:25 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:

>
>> put "guy" into gender
>> send "myHandler gender, i" to ...
>
> ever have any problems with the space
> after the comma?

I have. Yes.

Just yesterday I was passing 6 parameters, each of which had a space 
after the comma. The pass failed, only to find out that they were being 
considered one huge string, with everything getting handed in to the 
first parameter. I was very surprised at that, since I'm positive I've 
done it before without problems.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug 17 22:31:01 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:31:01 -0500
Subject: What is the word for "call" but not using the 'call' command
In-Reply-To: <8512FB0A-F0A4-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BD482995.4227%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/17/04 6:24 PM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> 
> On Aug 17, 2004, at 4:46 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
> 
>> "Call" seems fine to me in this context. (After all, it's why the call
>> command is called that, and not the "invoke" command, or...)
>> 
>> You could also say that doSomething sends a doThis message.
> 
> OK, but how do I describe this:
> 
> on doSomething
>     doThis
>     call "doThat" of button "A"
>     send "doOther" to button "B"
> end doSomething
> 
> If I use "call" or "send" to describe what doSomething does with
> doThis, how do I describe what it does with doThat and doOther?  Would
> "of" and "to" in such a description imply what I want?

Personally, I'd say:

 "doSomething" executes the "doThis" handler
 "doSomething" calls the "doThat" handler of button "A"
 "doSomething" sends the "doOther" message to button "B"

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Aug 17 23:00:34 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:00:34 +1000
Subject: next repeat problem
In-Reply-To: <593DCC7C-F068-11D8-AD29-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>
References: <593DCC7C-F068-11D8-AD29-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <C628E00C-F0C2-11D8-B3EF-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 18 Aug 2004, at 2:15 am, Rich Lague wrote:

> 	Is there a better way of excluding the blank lines in the field 
> "daTable" from my global variable?
>
Yes! Try this invaluable one-liner:

	filter fld "daTable" with "?*"

Although you won't need it, here is the fix for your repeat loop:
Instead of;
       if  line i is empty then next repeat

use:
       if line i of field "daTable" is empty then next repeat

Two other points which may prove useful in the future, with regard to 
the speed of your loop:
1. operations on fields are much slower than on variables. In this 
case, if you put fld "daTable" into a variable, then used the variable 
in the loop instead of the field itself, things would have been faster.
2. "repeat for each" is much, much faster than "repeat with".

For maximum efficiency, your loop could have been:
	put fld "daTable" into theTable
     repeat for each line L in theTable
       if L is empty then next repeat
       put item 1 of L & return after theList
     end repeat

Cheers,
Sarah


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 18 04:37:09 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:37:09 +0200
Subject: Localization
In-Reply-To: <20040817222915.59403.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040817222915.59403.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CB82AFD3-F0F1-11D8-9A2F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Erik,

> --- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:
>
>>   switch
>>    case "Sonntag" is among the lines of the
>> system weekdaynames
>>      put "d" into sprache
>>      break
>>    case "Zondaag" is among the lines of the
>> system weekdaynames
>>      put "hl" into sprache
>>      break
>>    case "Sondaag" is among the lines of the
>> system weekdaynames
>>      put "af" into sprache
>>      break
>>    case "Dimanche" is among the lines of the
>> system weekdaynames
>>      put "fr" into sprache
>>      break
>>    case "Domenica" is among the lines of the
>> system weekdaynames
>>      put "it" into sprache
>>      break
>>    case "Domingo" is among the lines of the
>> system weekdaynames
>>      put "sp" into sprache
>>      break
>>    default
>>      put "gb" into sprache
>>      break
>> ...
>>
>> Hope that helps
>
> anti-Dansk?

paranoid?

> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From index at kenjikojima.com  Wed Aug 18 08:12:02 2004
From: index at kenjikojima.com (Kenji Kojima)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:12:02 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Unicode Menu Shortcuts
In-Reply-To: <BD482064.3143%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BD482064.3143%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CFDA0196-F10F-11D8-9A4D-000D9328738A@kenjikojima.com>

Hi,

Does any body know how I can set Unicode menu shortcuts.
I can make Japanese menus and menu items, but not shortcuts.

Thanks,

--
Kenji Kojima
http://www.kenjikojima.com/





From pascal.jablonka at paris.IUFM.FR  Tue Aug 17 09:40:54 2004
From: pascal.jablonka at paris.IUFM.FR (Pascal Jablonka)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:40:54 +0200
Subject: internet library
Message-ID: <0F904CAD-F053-11D8-ABFC-0003934A8FF2@paris.IUFM.FR>

Hello,

I'm new on this list. I'm french, I'm trying to write a standard ftp 
tool who can work as well on Macintosh, Windows and Linux  for my 
students wich are preservice teachers.
using  "    libURLDownloadToFile fichier" in order to put the url 
fichier (ftp://user:password at hostname/path of the file) into the 
default folder, the respons of the serveur is "can't open that file" 
whatever the type of the file is.
How to copy a file from an ftp host or to an ftp host ?

Thanks

Pascal

----------

Bonjour,

Je suis nouveau sur cette liste. Je suis fran?ais. J'essaie d'?crire un 
logiciel standard de ftp qui fonctionne de la m?me mani?re sur Mac, 
sous Windows ou sous LInux pour mes ?tudiants qui sont ?l?ve 
enseignants.
Lorsque j'utilise "    libURLDownloadToFile fichier" pour copier le 
fichier d?crit par son url (ftp://user:password at hostname/chemin du 
fichier) dans le r?pertoire par d?faut local, je me heurte 
syst?matiquement ?  "can't open that file" quel que soit le type de 
fichier s?lectionn?.
Comment copier un fichier depuis ou vers un h?te ftp ?

Merci

Pascal


From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Aug 18 10:05:47 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:05:47 -0400
Subject: internet library
In-Reply-To: <0F904CAD-F053-11D8-ABFC-0003934A8FF2@paris.IUFM.FR>
References: <0F904CAD-F053-11D8-ABFC-0003934A8FF2@paris.IUFM.FR>
Message-ID: <B432FCCD-F11F-11D8-8A2A-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 17, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Pascal Jablonka wrote:

> I'm new on this list. I'm french, I'm trying to write a standard ftp 
> tool who can work as well on Macintosh, Windows and Linux  for my 
> students wich are preservice teachers.
> using  "    libURLDownloadToFile fichier" in order to put the url 
> fichier (ftp://user:password at hostname/path of the file) into the 
> default folder, the respons of the serveur is "can't open that file" 
> whatever the type of the file is.
> How to copy a file from an ftp host or to an ftp host ?

Hi Pascal,

Can you post the segment of code which is trying to do this? Maybe if 
we see it we can tell you what is wrong.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Wed Aug 18 12:12:25 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 18:12:25 +0200
Subject: fun with emerging stacks
Message-ID: <651693F4-F131-11D8-B8FE-003065CC999E@pi.be>

For those who like things coming out of thin air.
Place the following in a button named "fader":

/*  place this one in the card script or in an existing preOpenStack 
handler
on preOpenStack
   send "startTheProcess" to btn "fader"
end preOpenStack
*/

on startTheProcess
   set the loc of this stack to -1000,1000
   set decorations of this stack to noshadow,empty
   doCapture
   send  "fadeIn" to me in 100 millisecs
end startTheProcess

on doCapture
   put the screenloc into tSL
   put the width of this stack div 2 into tW
   put the height of this stack div 2 into tH
   put item 1 of tSL - tW,item 2 of tsL - tH,item 1 of tSL + tW,item 2 
of tsL + tH into tRect
   if the width of this stack mod 2 = 1 then add 1 to item 3 of tRect
   if the height of this stack mod 2 = 1 then add 1 to item 4 of tRect
   import snapshot from rect tRect
   choose browse tool
   set the name of last control to "tempimage"
   set the blendlevel of img "tempimage" to 0
   set the loc of this stack to the screenloc
end doCapture

on fadeIn
   if there is an img "tempimage" then
     set the blendlevel of img  "tempimage" to (the blendlevel of img 
"tempimage" + 2)
     if the blendlevel of img "tempimage" < 100 then send "fadeIn" to me 
in  20 millisecs
     else
       delete img "tempimage"
       if the decorations of this stack = noshadow then set the 
decorations of this stack to default
     end if
   end if
end fadeIn

on mouseUp
   if the decorations of this stack = noshadow then
     set the decorations of this stack to default
     if there is a img "tempimage" then
       delete img "tempimage"
     end if
   else
     answer "Do you want to do it again?" with "No" or "Ok"
     if it is "Ok" then
       send "startTheProcess" to me
      end if
   end if
end mouseUp

It is just an experiment and it performs well on Mac OS X.
But it is not tested on other platforms yet.
So please....
TIA,
WA


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Aug 18 12:37:08 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 18:37:08 +0200
Subject: ANN: PieControl
In-Reply-To: <CB82AFD3-F0F1-11D8-9A2F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEPMGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Here is that quintessential stack idea turned into reality again...

I've put in the best features possible into this stack. 
And im proud of its, ahem, smoothness and design...

Check it out:

It does rotary controls - like those you see in FLStudio.com
It does pie charts with percents or any values automatically
Chooses smart colors for you!
Shows labels at a dynamic locations from the center for each
pie piece.
It allows live rotation of the graph and labels too
all using a rotary control ;)
Last but not least, it allows pie pieces selection with a dumb
click which zooms in the pie piece! Totally cool!

Download and info at 
 http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=162

Next version: 3D, isometrics, radial gradients too

Enjoy
Xavier

--
http://MonsieurX.com
A virtual garage for revolutionary tools
RR Plugins, applications, links and tips
and more...
--


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Aug 18 12:43:58 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 18:43:58 +0200
Subject: fun with emerging stacks
In-Reply-To: <651693F4-F131-11D8-B8FE-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEPNGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

works great on XP!

cool!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Wouter
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 18:12
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: fun with emerging stacks
> 
> 
> For those who like things coming out of thin air.
> Place the following in a button named "fader":
> 
> /*  place this one in the card script or in an existing preOpenStack 
> handler
> on preOpenStack
>    send "startTheProcess" to btn "fader"
> end preOpenStack
> */
> 
> on startTheProcess
>    set the loc of this stack to -1000,1000
>    set decorations of this stack to noshadow,empty
>    doCapture
>    send  "fadeIn" to me in 100 millisecs
> end startTheProcess
> 
> on doCapture
>    put the screenloc into tSL
>    put the width of this stack div 2 into tW
>    put the height of this stack div 2 into tH
>    put item 1 of tSL - tW,item 2 of tsL - tH,item 1 of tSL + tW,item 2 
> of tsL + tH into tRect
>    if the width of this stack mod 2 = 1 then add 1 to item 3 of tRect
>    if the height of this stack mod 2 = 1 then add 1 to item 4 of tRect
>    import snapshot from rect tRect
>    choose browse tool
>    set the name of last control to "tempimage"
>    set the blendlevel of img "tempimage" to 0
>    set the loc of this stack to the screenloc
> end doCapture
> 
> on fadeIn
>    if there is an img "tempimage" then
>      set the blendlevel of img  "tempimage" to (the blendlevel of img 
> "tempimage" + 2)
>      if the blendlevel of img "tempimage" < 100 then send "fadeIn" to me 
> in  20 millisecs
>      else
>        delete img "tempimage"
>        if the decorations of this stack = noshadow then set the 
> decorations of this stack to default
>      end if
>    end if
> end fadeIn
> 
> on mouseUp
>    if the decorations of this stack = noshadow then
>      set the decorations of this stack to default
>      if there is a img "tempimage" then
>        delete img "tempimage"
>      end if
>    else
>      answer "Do you want to do it again?" with "No" or "Ok"
>      if it is "Ok" then
>        send "startTheProcess" to me
>       end if
>    end if
> end mouseUp
> 
> It is just an experiment and it performs well on Mac OS X.
> But it is not tested on other platforms yet.
> So please....
> TIA,
> WA
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Aug 18 13:08:42 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:08:42 -0300
Subject: ANN: PieControl
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEPMGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEPMGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <416B045C-F139-11D8-8D44-0003936D012E@mac.com>


Xavier,

Amazing! Finally a pie chart that looks good! :D

Thanks for the contribution!

Andre



On Aug 18, 2004, at 1:37 PM, MisterX wrote:

> Here is that quintessential stack idea turned into reality again...
>
> I've put in the best features possible into this stack.
> And im proud of its, ahem, smoothness and design...
>
> Check it out:
>
> It does rotary controls - like those you see in FLStudio.com
> It does pie charts with percents or any values automatically
> Chooses smart colors for you!
> Shows labels at a dynamic locations from the center for each
> pie piece.
> It allows live rotation of the graph and labels too
> all using a rotary control ;)
> Last but not least, it allows pie pieces selection with a dumb
> click which zooms in the pie piece! Totally cool!
>
> Download and info at
>  http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=162
>
> Next version: 3D, isometrics, radial gradients too
>
> Enjoy
> Xavier
>
> --
> http://MonsieurX.com
> A virtual garage for revolutionary tools
> RR Plugins, applications, links and tips
> and more...
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Aug 18 13:19:29 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:19:29 -0700
Subject: fun with emerging stacks
In-Reply-To: <651693F4-F131-11D8-B8FE-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <BD48DDB1.12EC6%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Wouter wrote:

> For those who like things coming out of thin air.
> Place the following in a button named "fader":

An alternate way to achieve this effect is Trevor DeVore's window external
which allows you to do the same on OSX, but with *real* transparency.  Which
means windows can be moved without having to recapture the desktop.
Hopefully the Windows version will be updated/fixed soon (hint, hint...
Trevor, are you listening?).

Find Trevor's external here:

  http://www.mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/window.html

...and place it in your Rev application folder.

Then play with a demo toy by running the following in your message box:

  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/alien_spheres.rev"

Bonus: reveal the windows, drag them to random locations on your desktop,
and click one of the cycle buttons: viola, instant alien star system. :-)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Aug 18 13:37:06 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:37:06 -0700
Subject: fun with emerging stacks
In-Reply-To: <BD48DDB1.12EC6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BD48E1D2.12ECD%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, I wrote:

> viola, instant alien star system.

I believe this should have been "voila", not the musical instrument.
Apologies to the French contingent.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Wed Aug 18 15:06:11 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:06:11 -0600
Subject: Drag Files to Windows Desktop from Revolution
Message-ID: <008001c48556$6e2533b0$12d4e6cf@WorkPC>

Is there any way to determine where the user puts a file when they drag it to the Windows Desktop?  I checked dragDestination() and that only reports what objects are dropped onto Revolution elements.

What I want to be able to do is change the name of the file that is dropped.  Any ideas on how to do this?
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Wed Aug 18 14:39:27 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:39:27 -0700
Subject: What is the word for "call" but not using the 'call' command
In-Reply-To: <8512FB0A-F0A4-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <7E855BF7-F083-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
 <p06100569bd483af73c10@[66.93.39.98]>
 <8512FB0A-F0A4-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <p061005cbbd4951a79a11@[66.93.39.98]>

At 5:24 PM -0600 8/17/2004, Dar Scott wrote:
>on doSomething
>    doThis
>    call "doThat" of button "A"
>    send "doOther" to button "B"
>end doSomething
>
>If I use "call" or "send" to describe what doSomething does with 
>doThis, how do I describe what it does with doThat and doOther? 
>Would "of" and "to" in such a description imply what I want?

I think this goes back to the dual nature of doThis: you can think of 
it either as a custom command (implemented by the custom handler 
"doThis"), in which case doSomething is executing "doThis", or using 
the doThis command... or you can think of it as a custom message 
(handled by the "doThis" handler), in which case doSomething is 
sending a doThis message. Either way is a legitimate way to think of 
what's going on, but the emphasis and terminology are very different.

One offshoot of this difference is that "call" takes the first 
attitude - you're calling a routine - while "send" takes the second - 
you're sending a message to an object.

I think the best terminology to use will depend on the context.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Aug 18 15:05:08 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:05:08 -0600
Subject: What is the word for "call" but not using the 'call' command
In-Reply-To: <p061005cbbd4951a79a11@[66.93.39.98]>
References: <7E855BF7-F083-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<p06100569bd483af73c10@[66.93.39.98]>
	<8512FB0A-F0A4-11D8-8C7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<p061005cbbd4951a79a11@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <85E395ED-F149-11D8-A6FF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 18, 2004, at 12:39 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

>> on doSomething
>>    doThis
>>    call "doThat" of button "A"
>>    send "doOther" to button "B"
>> end doSomething

> I think the best terminology to use will depend on the context.

How about this:

    The handler doSomthing calls (or sends a message for) doThis.
    Then it calls doThat of button "A".
    Then it sends "doOther" to button "B".

The differences are idioms in Revolution jargon.

I'm not sure what the generic term for all three might be.

Dar

****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Aug 18 15:25:05 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:25:05 -0600
Subject: Simulating password entry
Message-ID: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

All,

I'm writing an app that simulates a network server login on Mac OS X. I 
want the password field to behave just like normal password fields in 
OS X; i.e., bullet characters appear in place of clear text. I've sorta 
kinda got it working by trapping the keydown message in the password 
field, but it's quirky. Before I spend a lot of time on this, I thought 
I'd ask: Has anyone done this and would mind sharing a script?

Thanks.

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Aug 18 15:42:42 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 21:42:42 +0200
Subject: fun with emerging stacks
In-Reply-To: <651693F4-F131-11D8-B8FE-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <651693F4-F131-11D8-B8FE-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <C52B64C8-F14E-11D8-B945-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Thanks Wouter. A really cool designer's piece of code :D

Best Regards, Pierre


Le 18 ao?t 04, ? 18:12, Wouter a ?crit :

> For those who like things coming out of thin air.
> Place the following in a button named "fader":
>
> /*  place this one in the card script or in an existing preOpenStack 
> handler
> on preOpenStack
>   send "startTheProcess" to btn "fader"
> end preOpenStack
> */
>
> on startTheProcess
>   set the loc of this stack to -1000,1000
>   set decorations of this stack to noshadow,empty
>   doCapture
>   send  "fadeIn" to me in 100 millisecs
> end startTheProcess
>
> on doCapture
>   put the screenloc into tSL
>   put the width of this stack div 2 into tW
>   put the height of this stack div 2 into tH
>   put item 1 of tSL - tW,item 2 of tsL - tH,item 1 of tSL + tW,item 2 
> of tsL + tH into tRect
>   if the width of this stack mod 2 = 1 then add 1 to item 3 of tRect
>   if the height of this stack mod 2 = 1 then add 1 to item 4 of tRect
>   import snapshot from rect tRect
>   choose browse tool
>   set the name of last control to "tempimage"
>   set the blendlevel of img "tempimage" to 0
>   set the loc of this stack to the screenloc
> end doCapture
>
> on fadeIn
>   if there is an img "tempimage" then
>     set the blendlevel of img  "tempimage" to (the blendlevel of img 
> "tempimage" + 2)
>     if the blendlevel of img "tempimage" < 100 then send "fadeIn" to 
> me in  20 millisecs
>     else
>       delete img "tempimage"
>       if the decorations of this stack = noshadow then set the 
> decorations of this stack to default
>     end if
>   end if
> end fadeIn
>
> on mouseUp
>   if the decorations of this stack = noshadow then
>     set the decorations of this stack to default
>     if there is a img "tempimage" then
>       delete img "tempimage"
>     end if
>   else
>     answer "Do you want to do it again?" with "No" or "Ok"
>     if it is "Ok" then
>       send "startTheProcess" to me
>      end if
>   end if
> end mouseUp
>
> It is just an experiment and it performs well on Mac OS X.
> But it is not tested on other platforms yet.
> So please....
> TIA,
> WA
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Aug 18 16:06:47 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:06:47 -0500
Subject: Simulating password entry
In-Reply-To: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <4123B6D7.406@chipp.com>

David,

See:
Using asteriks for passwords in a field

at:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/UsefulScripts.htm

best,

Chipp


Devin Asay wrote:


> I'm writing an app that simulates a network server login on Mac OS X. I 
> want the password field to behave just like normal password fields in OS 
> X; i.e., bullet characters appear in place of clear text. I've sorta 
> kinda got it working by trapping the keydown message in the password 
> field, but it's quirky. Before I spend a lot of time on this, I thought 
> I'd ask: Has anyone done this and would mind sharing a script?


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Aug 18 16:08:29 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:08:29 -0500
Subject: fun with emerging stacks
In-Reply-To: <C52B64C8-F14E-11D8-B945-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
References: <651693F4-F131-11D8-B8FE-003065CC999E@pi.be>
	<C52B64C8-F14E-11D8-B945-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <4123B73D.90706@chipp.com>

There's a similar stack entitled:

SplashScreen Stack at:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm

if you're interested in another way to use this effect. It's tested on 
both Mac and Windows.

best,

Chipp

Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Thanks Wouter. A really cool designer's piece of code :D


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Aug 18 16:28:29 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:28:29 +0200
Subject: Simulating password entry
In-Reply-To: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <2A7E4A6C-F155-11D8-8F3E-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>


Le 18-ao?t-04, ? 21:25, Devin Asay a ?crit :

> All,
>
> I'm writing an app that simulates a network server login on Mac OS X. 
> I want the password field to behave just like normal password fields 
> in OS X; i.e., bullet characters appear in place of clear text. I've 
> sorta kinda got it working by trapping the keydown message in the 
> password field, but it's quirky. Before I spend a lot of time on this, 
> I thought I'd ask: Has anyone done this and would mind sharing a 
> script?
>
> Thanks.
>
>


create a field and put this script in the field :

local thisPassword
on returninfield
   get thisPassword
   if it is "<YourPassWrod>" then
     go to stack "<your mainStack>l"
   else
     answer "Tentative ill?gale !"
   end if
end returninfield

on enterinfield
   returninfield
end enterinfield

on keydown whichKey
    put whichKey after thisPassword
   put "*" after field "pass"
end keyDown

on backspaceKey
   put empty into field "pass"
   put "" into thisPassword
end backspaceKey

on deleteKey
   put empty into field "pass"
   put "" into thisPassword
end deleteKey



hope this help.

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug 18 16:33:32 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:33:32 -0700
Subject: Simulating password entry
In-Reply-To: <4123B6D7.406@chipp.com>
References: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
	<4123B6D7.406@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <4123BD1C.8000009@fourthworld.com>

Devin Asay wrote:
>
> I'm writing an app that simulates a network server login on Mac OS X. 
> I want the password field to behave just like normal password fields 
> in OS X; i.e., bullet characters appear in place of clear text. I've 
> sorta kinda got it working by trapping the keydown message in the 
> password field, but it's quirky. Before I spend a lot of time on this, 
> I thought I'd ask: Has anyone done this and would mind sharing a script?

A tip for use bullets across platforms:

Remember that characters in fields are automatically updated between 
platforms to account for things like mapping the Mac bullet character to 
the Windows bullet character.

So in my login screens I have a hidden field that contains just a bullet 
character, and I use that in the scripts that handle my visible entry field.

Here's a variant of such a script, borrowed largely from the MC IDE -- I 
have this in the bullet (display) field named "ftpPasswordBullet", with 
another hidden field to store the actual text named "ftpPassword":
---------------------------------------------------------

local sBullet


on tabkey
   focus on fld "ftpname"
end tabkey

on openField
   put char 1 of fld "bulletchar" into sBullet
   select the text of the target
end openField

on keyDown which
   local tpos
   put the selectedChunk into tpos
   put which into character (word 2 of tpos) to (word 4 of tpos) of 
field "ftpPassword"
   star
   select after character (word 2 of tpos) of fld "ftpPasswordBullet"
end keyDown

on deleteKey
   deleteone
end deleteKey

on backspaceKey
   deleteone
end backspaceKey

on deleteone
   put word 2 of the selectedChunk into tStart
   put word 4 of the selectedchunk into tEnd
   --
   if tStart > tEnd then
     put empty into char tEnd of fld "ftpPassword"
   else
     put empty into char tStart to tEnd of fld "ftpPassword"
   end if
   star
   select before char (tStart-1) of fld "ftpPasswordBullet"
end deleteone

on commandKeyDown pChar
   put word 2 of the selectedChunk into tStart
   put word 4 of the selectedchunk into tEnd
   --
   switch pChar
   case "x"
     cut char tstart to tEnd of fld "ftpPassword"
     star
     break
   case "v"
     select char tStart to tEnd of fld "ftpPassword"
     paste
     star
     select after character tEnd of fld "ftpPasswordBullet"
     break
   default
     pass commandKeyDown
   end switch
end commandKeyDown

on star
   local tstring
   put empty into tstring
   repeat with i = 1 to the number of characters in fld "ftpPassword"
     put sBullet after tstring
   end repeat
   put tstring into field "ftpPasswordBullet"
end star



-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From Meitnik at aol.com  Wed Aug 18 16:37:11 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:37:11 EDT
Subject: dancing popup menus
Message-ID: <129.48ff33fe.2e5517f7@aol.com>

Hi,

Anyone else having the IDE popup menus suddenly change to someone's else 
popup menus within the IDE?? Its driving me crazy. I cant find any pattern so far. 
I try to force IDE to make up its mind but sometimes i just have to close the 
IDE and reopen it. Any work arounds welcomed.

2.5b2, osx 10.3.4

Andrew

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug 18 16:47:23 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:47:23 -0700
Subject: dancing popup menus
In-Reply-To: <129.48ff33fe.2e5517f7@aol.com>
References: <129.48ff33fe.2e5517f7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4123C05B.8060004@fourthworld.com>

Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Anyone else having the IDE popup menus suddenly change to someone's else 
> popup menus within the IDE?? Its driving me crazy. I cant find any pattern so far. 
> I try to force IDE to make up its mind but sometimes i just have to close the 
> IDE and reopen it. Any work arounds welcomed.

I've seen this in the MC IDE, and have had to modify it to help prevent 
it.  However scripting style plays a role here, so an IDE can only do so 
much to preserve itself:

The issue is a Transcript convenience which allows you to refer to menu 
button objects by simply using the keyword "menu" as a shorthand for a 
complete button reference, so you can say things like:

   put tMyMenuItems into menu "Edit"

...instead of:

   put tMyMenuItems into btn "Edit" of stack "MyMenuBar"

When using the shorter "menu" reference, it assumes you're taking about 
a button of that name within the group which is currently the 
defaultMenuBar.

However, if you have an app which changes the defaultMenuBar, unless 
scripts check to see which defaultMenuBar is active then modifying menu 
contents with the shorter "menu" reference may modify the wrong object.

To correct this in the MC IDE I've changed the scripts to use only 
explicit object references (the second form shown above).  While the 
"menu" form can be a great convenience when porting HC stacks, that 
convenience comes at the price of ambiguity.  More explicit references 
to menu buttons will make for more robust systems.

I don't know if the Rev IDE uses the "menu" form in their scripts, or if 
they use only explicit references like we now use with the MC IDE.  If 
Rev uses only explicit references it may be the case that one of your 
scripts or perhaps those in a plugin are not checking the defaultMenuBar 
before modifying things, so the interpreter faithfully does what it's 
told even if it may not be what you want. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Aug 18 17:01:46 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:01:46 +0200
Subject: Questions about Altbrowser and SVG
Message-ID: <4123C3B8.BB5E2270@Club-Internet.fr>

Hi folks,

Not so long ago, someone posted a message about
the use of Altbrowser and SVG in a Rev stack
(sorry if I don't remember who it was, I just kept
this link : http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/svg.htm)

I have to make a decision (and have very little time
before I can give an answer to my client) about the
possible use of vector graphics made with SVG in
a Rev app (actually the project is to refurbish some
app I wrote about 2 years ago with MC 2.4.1, and
I might consider re-using that version of MC).

I am familiar with SVG. The questions I have are
mostly related to the best way to embed Altbrowser,
the SVG plugin and an MC standalone, and to the
best way to distribute it on a CD-Rom :

1) according to what I read on the above mentioned
HTML page, the SVG graphics display inside an img
control (which is what I do when interfacing Rev with
openGL), and therefore can be mixed with other controls
(graphics, fields, other imgs...), right ?

2) the window in which the SVG stuff displays is a regular
stack window, right ? Which means that I can use it as a
splashscreen, or as my default stack, and set the decorations
of that window like any other stack ?

3) how fast does the SVG stuff refresh ? can I expect to do
animated vector graphics by rendering successive SVG scripts
several times per second ?

4) how can the whole thing be distributed ? The ideal situation
for me would be to have all required elements (the standalone,
the SVG plugin and the Altbrowser DLL) installed on the CD-Rom,
with no installation of anything on the end-user HD...
And last but not least, what about copyright ? does the Altwrowser
licence fee allow that ?

I would really apreciate if anyone familiar with the subject could
answer the above questions, and give me any detailed infos that
could help me make a decision. As said before, time is critical...
Basically, the final decision will consist in a choice between SVG
and Flash... And to tell the truth, I have the feeling that I could get
more realtime control on the displays with SVG... I have used Flash
anims in Rev projects before, but haven't really been satisfied with
the results...

Thanks in advance,
JB


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 18 16:59:11 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:59:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question -- UDI's SMF
In-Reply-To: <41228B78.6030605@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <20040818205911.56901.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>

Thank you for an email.

I read those articles.

I have NO Windows PC,
And I don't understand how QT works on Windows
PC.
I think that my code is right, but I can't
inspect it.

Because makeSMF makes a SMF file once 
(is certainly 'make-SMF'),
I understand that there is an issue of
performance.

It works on my machine *comparatively* smoothly,
but don't know a performance on Windows.

>ok for me to post this info on the list?

Yes, thank your consideration.

===

thank you for SMF,

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Wed Aug 18 17:03:56 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:03:56 +0200
Subject: fun with emerging stacks
Message-ID: <1E888501-F15A-11D8-B8FE-003065CC999E@pi.be>

> 	? 	From: MisterX
> 	? 	 Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:29:13 -0700
>
> 	? 	From: Scott Rossi
> 	? 	 Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:19:40 -0700
>
> 	? 	From: Pierre Sahores
> 	? 	 Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:42:08 -0700
>
> 	? 	From: Chipp Walters
> 	? 	 Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:08:37 -0700


Thank you all for your replies.

WA


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Aug 18 17:08:10 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:08:10 -0600
Subject: Simulating password entry
In-Reply-To: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <B57863D3-F15A-11D8-A6FF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 18, 2004, at 1:25 PM, Devin Asay wrote:

> I'm writing an app that simulates a network server login on Mac OS X. 
> I want the password field to behave just like normal password fields 
> in OS X; i.e., bullet characters appear in place of clear text. I've 
> sorta kinda got it working by trapping the keydown message in the 
> password field, but it's quirky. Before I spend a lot of time on this, 
> I thought I'd ask: Has anyone done this and would mind sharing a 
> script?

In some releases of Revolution characters with accents marks or umlauts 
will bypass messages, so watch out.

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 18 17:21:21 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:21:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <BD477D18.750E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <20040818212121.39002.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Ken Norris (dialup)"
<pixelbird at interisland.net> wrote:

> >> we (I) desperately need Shakobox for
> Windows.
> 
>  somehow figure out timing for playback,

ay, there's the rub.

> What is it, exactly, that you want to do? Why
> can't you just create MIDI
> files with one of the softwares available for
> Windows and incorporate them
> into your stacks?

my graphics need to be precisely coordinated
with the music. at least to the measure, if not
the beat. tempo can change within a composition.
this is dance choreography which is in lockstep
with the music.

right now i am getting an extra 17 milliseconds
for each repeat in the pendingmessages

on andale
  ...
  put 0 into counter
  repeat with 1 = pStart to pEnd
     put (counter * 1000) into tSpeed
     send "setDancers i" to me in tSpeed
milliseconds
     add 1 to counter
  end repeat
...
end andale

exact sound and motion coordination is
an absolute must. nightmares about moving
to director... Scott Rossi said something about
using Flash within RR, but hopefully it can all
be done here.

Thank You,

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
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From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Aug 18 18:53:28 2004
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:53:28 -0500
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX
Message-ID: <6B6103FF-F169-11D8-B8D7-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>

Gang,

I've noticed that in some stacks running in the IDE under OSX appear 
momentarily white and then their background color or image appears. 
This is VERY brief, but it can be seen as a flicker. It's more 
noticeable because my backgrounds are different shades of charcoal.

This is also seen when I switch from the finder to Rev and my stack 
redraws.

I've looked at the archives (nada) and tried fiddling with 
alwaysBuffer, bufferhiddenImages and screenNoPixmaps to no avail.

Any thoughts, haters of flicker?

Best,

Jerry


From Meitnik at aol.com  Wed Aug 18 19:14:39 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:14:39 EDT
Subject: dancing menus, ii
Message-ID: <dc.1221aee4.2e553cdf@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/18/04 5:58:09 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> I don't know if the Rev IDE uses the "menu" form in their scripts, or if
> they use only explicit references like we now use with the MC IDE.? If
> Rev uses only explicit references it may be the case that one of your
> scripts or perhaps those in a plugin are not checking the defaultMenuBar
> before modifying things, so the interpreter faithfully does what it's
> told even if it may not be what you want. :)
> --- ahh, this never happened till 2.5, so code changes in IDE is suspect here 
;-) Thanks for the tip. Btw, I always use full obj refs, helps for better 
testing.

Andrew


From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Aug 18 20:27:52 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 21:27:52 -0300
Subject: problem with export command...
Message-ID: <9BCEB3D4-F176-11D8-8D44-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I am trying to export a PNG file using export command like this

export image "The Image" to file 
"/Users/andregar/Desktop/teste/images/mainimage.png" as PNG

and it returns a "cannot write to file, mask file, container" message, 
the folder is there, and it's not write protected, any clue?
I am obtaining this folder with answer folder, so no place for typos.

Andre
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Aug 18 21:12:56 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:12:56 +1000
Subject: problem with export command...
In-Reply-To: <9BCEB3D4-F176-11D8-8D44-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <9BCEB3D4-F176-11D8-8D44-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <E7682271-F17C-11D8-8EC1-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I had this problem when the image was actually empty i.e. no imageData. 
It sounds like a file path error but it isn't.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 19 Aug 2004, at 10:29 am, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> I am trying to export a PNG file using export command like this
>
> export image "The Image" to file 
> "/Users/andregar/Desktop/teste/images/mainimage.png" as PNG
>
> and it returns a "cannot write to file, mask file, container" message, 
> the folder is there, and it's not write protected, any clue?
> I am obtaining this folder with answer folder, so no place for typos.


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Aug 18 21:32:03 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:32:03 -0500
Subject: fun with emerging stacks
In-Reply-To: <BD48DDB1.12EC6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BD496D43.4322%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/18/04 12:19 PM, "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> Recently, Wouter wrote:
> 
>> For those who like things coming out of thin air.
>> Place the following in a button named "fader":
> 
> An alternate way to achieve this effect is Trevor DeVore's window external
> which allows you to do the same on OSX, but with *real* transparency.  Which
> means windows can be moved without having to recapture the desktop.
> Hopefully the Windows version will be updated/fixed soon (hint, hint...
> Trevor, are you listening?).
> 
> Find Trevor's external here:
> 
>   http://www.mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/window.html
> 
> ...and place it in your Rev application folder.
> 
> Then play with a demo toy by running the following in your message box:
> 
>   go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/alien_spheres.rev"
> 
> Bonus: reveal the windows, drag them to random locations on your desktop,
> and click one of the cycle buttons: viola, instant alien star system. :-)

Cool stuff, Scott!

Violin!

;-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Aug 18 22:02:20 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:02:20 -0300
Subject: problem with export command...
In-Reply-To: <E7682271-F17C-11D8-8EC1-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <9BCEB3D4-F176-11D8-8D44-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<E7682271-F17C-11D8-8EC1-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <CE11A77E-F183-11D8-8D44-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 18, 2004, at 10:12 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> I had this problem when the image was actually empty i.e. no 
> imageData. It sounds like a file path error but it isn't.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah

Thanks Sarah! I am seein the image, but let's us probe the imageData, I 
hope the engine find it amusing...

:D
andre


>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Wed Aug 18 22:53:35 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:53:35 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Beta 2 and verbose log
In-Reply-To: <BD482064.3143%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD498E6F.2917%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>



> This version also ships with a new logging mode.  If you are having problems
> or anticipate problems, please run revVerboseDebug true in the message box.

I had some crashing when working with scripts (after opening and closing
windows) so I decided to set the revVerboseDebug true thing and make a log
so I could do a proper report. Ever since I did that the crashing stopped.
It is very similar to when you open a can of paint on a nice blue sky day
and the fumes from the paint go up into the clouds and make them rain only
in the opposite manner.

I do notice though that writing the verbose log when using the database
controls slows things down considerably.



From warren at howsoft.com  Wed Aug 18 23:14:04 2004
From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:14:04 -0300
Subject: Questions about Altbrowser and SVG
Message-ID: <002001c4859b$05840620$0301a8c0@john>

Dear JB,

I was the one who posted the message. I'll try to answer your questions as
best I can. However, a person more qualified than myself to answer your
questions about the altBrowser is one of the co-creators, Chipp Walters. So
I will ask Chipp to correct me if I am wrong.

< Not so long ago, someone posted a message about
< the use of Altbrowser and SVG in a Rev stack
< (sorry if I don't remember who it was, I just kept
< this link : http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/svg.htm)

< I have to make a decision (and have very little time
< before I can give an answer to my client) about the
< possible use of vector graphics made with SVG in
< a Rev app (actually the project is to refurbish some
< app I wrote about 2 years ago with MC 2.4.1, and
< I might consider re-using that version of MC).

< I am familiar with SVG. The questions I have are
< mostly related to the best way to embed Altbrowser,
< the SVG plugin and an MC standalone, and to the
< best way to distribute it on a CD-Rom :

THE altBrowser and the SVG plugin are not connected. The altBrowser simply
shows in a stack whatever you might show in the Internet Explorer. So if IE
has the SVG plugin, then it is possible to show the SVG in the stack. But if
IE has no plugin, then of course it is not possible to show the SVG in the
stack.

You will note on the same page at howsoft.com that I also showed an example
of a Rebol plugin. The same logic applies. If IE is enabled, then so is the
altBrowser, but if not, not.

< 1) according to what I read on the above mentioned
< HTML page, the SVG graphics display inside an img
< control (which is what I do when interfacing Rev with
< openGL), and therefore can be mixed with other controls
< (graphics, fields, other imgs...), right ?

RIGHT.

< 2) the window in which the SVG stuff displays is a regular
< stack window, right ? Which means that I can use it as a
< splashscreen, or as my default stack, and set the decorations
< of that window like any other stack ?

YES.
What I did in my example, though, was to simply modify the example stack
that came with the altBrowser when I bought the license. Chipp will correct
me if I am wrong by affirming that there is absolutely nothing special about
this stack, and you can build a new one from scratch with all the other
bells and whistles you want.

< 3) how fast does the SVG stuff refresh ? can I expect to do
< animated vector graphics by rendering successive SVG scripts
< several times per second ?

NOT VERY FAST. This is not a limitation of the altBrowser, but happens just
the same in the Internet Explorer. But of course this depends to some degree
on the size and complexity of the SVG scripts. If they are simple scripts,
you might well get the speed you need, but please note that I have not run
any tests along the lines you mention.

< 4) how can the whole thing be distributed ? The ideal situation
< for me would be to have all required elements (the standalone,
< the SVG plugin and the Altbrowser DLL) installed on the CD-Rom,
< with no installation of anything on the end-user HD...

THE Adobe SVG plugin is for the Internet Explorer, and can be downloaded
from Adobe (it is free). However, I don't know how they would feel about
your distributing it on your CD-Rom. You can visit their site to find out
(the address is my site http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/svg.htm that you have
already visited.) If the result of this is not favourable in terms of
distribution, you might consider using the Batik SVG plugin, which can
probably be distributed more freely (but please check this).

< And last but not least, what about copyright ? does the Altwrowser
< licence fee allow that ?

That's for Chipp to answer.


< I would really apreciate if anyone familiar with the subject could
< answer the above questions, and give me any detailed infos that
< could help me make a decision. As said before, time is critical...
< Basically, the final decision will consist in a choice between SVG
< and Flash... And to tell the truth, I have the feeling that I could get
< more realtime control on the displays with SVG... I have used Flash
< anims in Rev projects before, but haven't really been satisfied with
< the results...




From katir at hindu.org  Wed Aug 18 23:32:27 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:32:27 -1000
Subject: bug reporting for 2.5B2
Message-ID: <649FE220-F190-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Not to whine too much but:

I was under the impression that all the bugs were fixed in 2.5B2... So 
I reported a bug that continues to persist in 2.5B2:

Drop file from finder on a field which traps the drop, not only returns 
the path to the file (intended behavior.. I use this all the time, all 
day long) but creates a field and posts the data from the file into the 
field.  so, if I get the path for a 80 mg psd file... rev tries to put 
all that binary data into the field. Crashes of course.

but then the man behind the run rev bugzilla mask responds

"bug removed, already fixed... please check bugs before reporting?"

?? if its already fixed, then why is it still happening?

I'm seeing LOTS of problems with 2.5.B2... it is certainly not ready 
for prime time. it would be a public relations disaster if it went out 
like this.  I worked in Rev IDE generally speaking 3 hours day in 
various projects... today I hit at least 8 major issues... non have 
been show stoppers except the above... some are scary though, like 
selecting a field and choosing the table under the properties pull down 
and having all the data in the field deleted and replaced with the data 
of a field  on another card in the same background that had been 
previously set to a table object... revert now! ;-( at least I had a 
way to back out. And i like the one about opening a stack name 
"searchfiles.rev" and being told that "You already have a stack open by 
the name of "WebEditor-g4.rev... having two stack open in memory with 
the same name means you could lose some data...." aside from the 
erroneous report (the stacks are completley different) what happened to 
the purge option?  Then there's the metal stacks where all the objects 
on the face of the card simply disappear ?!  that's fun... resize 
window.. blink, they are back... that's fun and then there's the.....

IMHO might it not be better to issue a release with the bugs fixed? so 
that we can freely report issues remaining without having to research 
what's been reported already.  I guess I misunderstood Kevin's 
description of B2 as "just a few crash issues remaining.." and the 
assumption all bugs reported has been fixed in B2. I just don't have 
time to check if each one was reported before. Ken's revZilla still not 
working right with fireFox cookies, and manual entry of the cookie log 
in and bugzilla number is not persistent.

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug 19 00:52:21 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:52:21 -0500
Subject: bug reporting for 2.5B2
In-Reply-To: <649FE220-F190-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <BD499C35.4331%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/18/04 10:32 PM, "Sannyasin Sivakatirswami" <katir at hindu.org> wrote:

> IMHO might it not be better to issue a release with the bugs fixed? so
> that we can freely report issues remaining without having to research
> what's been reported already.  I guess I misunderstood Kevin's
> description of B2 as "just a few crash issues remaining.." and the
> assumption all bugs reported has been fixed in B2. I just don't have
> time to check if each one was reported before. Ken's revZilla still not
> working right with fireFox cookies, and manual entry of the cookie log
> in and bugzilla number is not persistent.

Well, I can't answer for RunRev, but my RevZilla app is not sponsored by
RunRev or supported by them, so any bugs you see in RevZilla should be sent
to me directly and not sent to Bugzilla (since I won't look for them there).

That said, I'll see what I can do about fixing RevZilla to work with
Firefox...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug 19 00:56:10 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:56:10 -0500
Subject: Simulating password entry
In-Reply-To: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <412432EA.5000706@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/18/04 2:25 PM, Devin Asay wrote:

> All,
> 
> I'm writing an app that simulates a network server login on Mac OS X. I 
> want the password field to behave just like normal password fields in OS 
> X; i.e., bullet characters appear in place of clear text. I've sorta 
> kinda got it working by trapping the keydown message in the password 
> field, but it's quirky. Before I spend a lot of time on this, I thought 
> I'd ask: Has anyone done this and would mind sharing a script?

It's built in. If you want an encrypted password back:

  ask password "Enter your password"

If you want clear text back:

  ask password clear "Enter your password"

Both return the user entry in the variable "it".

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From SimPLsol at aol.com  Thu Aug 19 01:44:05 2004
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 01:44:05 EDT
Subject: Fields, Margins, Tab on Return
Message-ID: <dc.1228b22f.2e559825@aol.com>

     Create a new rectangular field with four lines of 9 pt. type on 12 pt. 
leading - 48 pixels tall. Default margins are 5.
1. Try to set the margins to zero. Half of the leading on the top line 
disappears. Width margins seem to be tied to height margins, which makes no sense to 
me. I can find no way to set either set of margins to zero. Is there a way?
2. Type something in the first line of this field. Hit the return key three 
times; the cursor is flashing on line four; all is well. Hit the return key 
again; the field scrolls; the cursor is on line five; the info on line one is 
invisible; and the only way to get back to seeing line one is to delete lines 
(there is, of course, no scroll bar on a rectangle field)! Rectangle fields 
should not scroll! Right? I don't want the user to put a five line address in a 
four line address field.
3. I can prevent the scrolling if I check "Tab on Return". This works all 
right for a plain field or a one line field. But, if i add a 1 pixel border and 
check "Three dimensional" on this four line field, the cursor will no longer go 
into line four. I can only fix this by increasing the height of the field 
(unacceptable, 4 lines of 12 pt. leading must be 48 pixels, 3 lines must be 36 
pixels, etc.) or reduce the margin to 3 - which cuts off the top of the first 
line again. This problem seems to be directly related to #1.

(Using OS X 10.3.5, TiBook 400, 1 gig of RAM)

What I want is a std., non-scrolling, rectangle field, with 3D, a one pixel 
border, the ability to type into all lines, the height of the field to be 12 
times the number of lines in the field, and (on some fields) the ability to auto 
tab without losing the last line of the field. Is there a simple way to do 
this?

I appreciate your assistance.

Paul Looney

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug 19 02:26:57 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 01:26:57 -0500
Subject: Fields, Margins, Tab on Return
In-Reply-To: <dc.1228b22f.2e559825@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD49B261.4339%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/19/04 12:44 AM, "SimPLsol at aol.com" <SimPLsol at aol.com> wrote:

>      Create a new rectangular field with four lines of 9 pt. type on 12 pt.
> leading - 48 pixels tall. Default margins are 5.
> 1. Try to set the margins to zero. Half of the leading on the top line
> disappears. Width margins seem to be tied to height margins, which makes no
> sense to 
> me. I can find no way to set either set of margins to zero. Is there a way?

Yes, but it's not "zero" - for some reason, if you want to set it to
*appear* to be 0, you set it to 2,2,0,0 (if you are not showing a border),
or 2,4,0,0 (if you are showing a border).

Remember that you can use a single number for margins (in which case it
applies to all sides), or a 4 item string for left,top,right,bottom margins.

> 2. Type something in the first line of this field. Hit the return key three
> times; the cursor is flashing on line four; all is well. Hit the return key
> again; the field scrolls; the cursor is on line five; the info on line one is
> invisible; and the only way to get back to seeing line one is to delete lines
> (there is, of course, no scroll bar on a rectangle field)! Rectangle fields
> should not scroll! Right? I don't want the user to put a five line address in
> a 
> four line address field.

I don't think it's a bug (as I have used this approach to "scroll" movie
titles), but you can prevent it this way:

on returnInField
  if the number of lines of me is 4 then
    beep
    exit returnInField
  else
    pass returnInField
  end if
end returnInField

If you want something more flexible based on the current field height:

on returnInField
  put round(the height of me / the textHeight of me) into tMaxLines
  if the number of lines of me is tMaxLines then
    beep
    exit returnInField
  else
    pass returnInField
  end if
end returnInField

Now keep in mind that you'd want to trap enter key as well as people pasting
in data, but this'll get you started.

> What I want is a std., non-scrolling, rectangle field, with 3D, a one pixel
> border, the ability to type into all lines, the height of the field to be 12
> times the number of lines in the field, and (on some fields) the ability to
> auto 
> tab without losing the last line of the field. Is there a simple way to do
> this?

To do the "autotab" you can amend my script above as follows:

on returnInField
  put round(the height of me / the textHeight of me) into tMaxLines
  if the number of lines of me is tMaxLines then
    type tab
    exit returnInField
  else
    pass returnInField
  end if
end returnInField

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 19 03:02:47 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 02:02:47 -0500
Subject: Questions about Altbrowser and SVG
In-Reply-To: <002001c4859b$05840620$0301a8c0@john>
References: <002001c4859b$05840620$0301a8c0@john>
Message-ID: <41245097.2010105@chipp.com>

Bob,

Thanks for answering all the questions. You are correct on all of them.

JB,

If you need faster redraw of vector graphics, considering using Flash in 
altBrowser. As you know, Flash can animate and redraw very fast. Of 
course if you purchase altBrowser, you get a license to redistribute it 
with any of your standalones, including those on CD-ROM. Remember, you 
should install the .dll in the same folder as the standalone, as that is 
the standard place for externals.

best,

Chipp


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Thu Aug 19 03:51:54 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:51:54 +0200
Subject: Questions about Altbrowser and SVG
References: <002001c4859b$05840620$0301a8c0@john>
Message-ID: <41245C19.B72F77A7@Club-Internet.fr>



Bob, Chipp,

Thank you both for answering my questions.

>
> THE altBrowser and the SVG plugin are not connected. The altBrowser simply
> shows in a stack whatever you might show in the Internet Explorer. So if IE
> has the SVG plugin, then it is possible to show the SVG in the stack. But if
> IE has no plugin, then of course it is not possible to show the SVG in the
> stack.

This is the point that I don't really understand...
Let's say I have my standalone and the Altbrowser dll on my CD-Rom;
does that mean that the end user needs to install the SVG plugin for IE
on his HD (and thus have IE installed on his HD) to be able to use my stack
with Altbrowser ?

Besides, there's another point that remains unclear to me : you confirmed
that decorations of the stack window can be set like for any stack. OK, but
nevertheless the stack will be displayed INSIDE a browser window, with its
own "decorations"... which means that if I want to get rid of those "browser
decorations" I probably need to add some javascript code on top of
everything...
If I'm right on this, it looks a bit tricky...

As for Chipp's suggestion to use Flash for fast vector graphics, I've done
that several times, but haven't been 100% satisfied by that solution, mostly
because Flash anims run in Rev through QT which isn't always up to date
regarding the latest Flash version...

As of yet, I see only 2 solutions for my project :
1- do all my 2D vector graphics through an openGL external, but that means
quite a lot of hardcore C coding (and also some serious problems when mixing
the result with other controls on the screen, mostly because of transparencies
and aliasing)
2- pre-calculate all the images I need in some scriptable vector graphic
software
(Flash or Illustrator or SVG), save each frame as a jpg or png image and then
display those images sequentially...

The thing is that both solutions are trade-offs...

God damn... when will Runrev include anti-aliased vector graphics in Rev ?
I (and a few others) keep asking for it for more than 2 years...


Best,
JB


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 19 04:02:04 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 04:02:04 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Beta 2 and verbose log
In-Reply-To: <BD498E6F.2917%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD498E6F.2917%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <0EE09FE1-F1B6-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Is there a way to prevent RevOnline from starting up whenever I launch 
Rev.  I couldn't find a preference that allowed me to do this.

It significantly slows down the launch of Rev and there are times when 
I have either a slow internet connection or no internet connection at 
all--and thus have no use for RevOnline.

Thanks.

M


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 19 04:03:22 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 03:03:22 -0500
Subject: Questions about Altbrowser and SVG
In-Reply-To: <41245C19.B72F77A7@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <002001c4859b$05840620$0301a8c0@john>
	<41245C19.B72F77A7@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <41245ECA.7000900@chipp.com>

Hi JB,

If you haven't already, go to
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/altBrowser.htm

and download the altBrowser demo. It's a standalone which is a stack 
with embedded browser. Check out the help file in the menu for info on 
the browser commands supported.

We're putting the final touches on altBrowser for Mac as we speak. 
Unfortuately, a client (meaning paying work) got in the way. Chris has 
it working fine on the Mac but we're just tweaking the commands so 
they're fully cross-platform.


jbv wrote:


> This is the point that I don't really understand...
> Let's say I have my standalone and the Altbrowser dll on my CD-Rom;
> does that mean that the end user needs to install the SVG plugin for IE
> on his HD (and thus have IE installed on his HD) to be able to use my stack
> with Altbrowser ?

Yes, you are correct.

> Besides, there's another point that remains unclear to me : you confirmed
> that decorations of the stack window can be set like for any stack. OK, but
> nevertheless the stack will be displayed INSIDE a browser window, with its
> own "decorations"... which means that if I want to get rid of those "browser
> decorations" I probably need to add some javascript code on top of
> everything...
> If I'm right on this, it looks a bit tricky...

No, altBrowser actually runs inside an image control. So, the image 
control is in fact a browser window. So, it's the other way around, the 
browser is displayed inside a stack window.

> As for Chipp's suggestion to use Flash for fast vector graphics, I've done
> that several times, but haven't been 100% satisfied by that solution, mostly
> because Flash anims run in Rev through QT which isn't always up to date
> regarding the latest Flash version...

If your user has the ability to play Flash inside IE (most do), then 
Flash will play inside altBrower, as it is only an instance of the IE 
ActiveX control.



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 19 04:04:58 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 03:04:58 -0500
Subject: Fields, Margins, Tab on Return
In-Reply-To: <dc.1228b22f.2e559825@aol.com>
References: <dc.1228b22f.2e559825@aol.com>
Message-ID: <41245F2A.3000001@chipp.com>

Check out the fixedLineHeight property. I suggest setting it to false.


From SimPLsol at aol.com  Thu Aug 19 07:34:49 2004
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:34:49 EDT
Subject: Fields, Margins, Tab on Return
Message-ID: <12e.4946c037.2e55ea59@aol.com>

Thank you Ken. I do appreciate it.

Am I the only one who thinks there are entirely too many "work arounds" like 
this in Revolution? Sizing fields should be fundamental, logical and easy. 
Zero margins should be zero margins. What newby is ever going to discover this?

Previous posts said Revolution was too Mac-like. I think it is too UNIX-like. 
If you don't read the manual twice and check the list daily it is hard to do 
simple stuff. This is not the only item: the menu manager, backgrounds, 
creating lists, making reports, etc. are still far more difficult than I would 
expect of a 2.5 product.

Perhaps I am the only one on the list who thinks this way - but I believe I 
represent the market Rev. needs   - if it is going to become something more 
than a hobbyist's RAD.

Sincerely,
Paul Looney

From SimPLsol at aol.com  Thu Aug 19 07:41:07 2004
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:41:07 EDT
Subject: Fields, Margins, Tab on Return
Message-ID: <149.31122898.2e55ebd3@aol.com>

Chipp,
I unchecked the Fixed Line Height. All of the lines disappeared (as one might 
expect) but the cursor still autotabbed out of the field at line 3.
Thank you for the suggestion.
Paul Looney
PS. Hopefully the final solution will allow me to keep the lines in the 
field.

From jan.decroos at groepvanroey.be  Thu Aug 19 08:16:16 2004
From: jan.decroos at groepvanroey.be (Jan Decroos)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:16:16 +0200
Subject: Prevent RevOnline launches (was:2.5 Beta 2 and verbose log)
In-Reply-To: <20040819113914.AFE99930075@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040819113914.AFE99930075@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <fc.0073fc46001355853b9aca00e602b03c.135591@groepvanroey.be>

Marian Petrides wrote:
>Is there a way to prevent RevOnline from starting up whenever I launch 
>Rev.  I couldn't find a preference that allowed me to do this.

Sure!
See:
	Preferences -> General -> Automatically launch Revolution Online



Jan


From tvogelaar at de-mare.nl  Thu Aug 19 09:16:48 2004
From: tvogelaar at de-mare.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:16:48 +0200
Subject: Accessing other stacks in LibCGI
Message-ID: <06E9C845-F1E2-11D8-AD56-000A9569E638@de-mare.nl>

Hi all,

While LibCGI helped me a lot in building my website, there is one issue 
I can't resolve yet.

I have a 'content' stack and I want to access information in another 
stack named 'agenda'. And I can't figure out how.
I tried:

lock messages
start using "path/to/agenda.rev"
put functionInAgenda() into a

That worked as long as I let functionInAgenda just return plain 
information. If I want to access a field on a card, it fails.

I even tried:
put url 
"http://www.de-mare.nl/cgi-bin/form.cgi?stack=agenda&cmd=cmdinagenda" 
into a

The space where the data should be inserted stayed empty, while the url 
itself worked OK in a browser.

I also tried to mare agenda a substack of content an do:
put value("functionInAgenda()",stack "agenda") into a

Same result. If I specify a card in "agenda" it can't be found. If I 
check the name of the first card, it gives the name of the first card 
of stack 'content' instead. If I add 'of stack "agenda"' it solves the 
problem in the development environment, but the webbrowser gives an 
infinite load time.

Any suggestions?

Terry


From kevin at runrev.com  Thu Aug 19 10:13:00 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:13:00 +0100
Subject: bug reporting for 2.5B2
In-Reply-To: <649FE220-F190-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <BD4A73FC.33DA%kevin@runrev.com>

On 19/8/04 4:32 am, "Sannyasin Sivakatirswami" <katir at hindu.org> wrote:

> Not to whine too much but:
> 
> I was under the impression that all the bugs were fixed in 2.5B2...

We have never stated that all bugs will be fixed in this, or any other
release.  We have fixed the vast majority of the issues reported, which is
what we set out to do.  No commercial software is bug free, that's
unrealistic.  Apple would never have shipped Mac OS X, Microsoft would never
have shipped Windows...

> So I reported a bug that continues to persist in 2.5B2:
> 
> Drop file from finder on a field which traps the drop, not only returns
> the path to the file (intended behavior.. I use this all the time, all
> day long) but creates a field and posts the data from the file into the
> field.  so, if I get the path for a 80 mg psd file... rev tries to put
> all that binary data into the field. Crashes of course.

Are you sure you are using 2.5B2?  There is no script in B2 that does that,
its not an engine behavior, so check your scripts, or that you haven't
copied the old "plug ins" folder from a previous release.

> but then the man behind the run rev bugzilla mask responds
> 
> "bug removed, already fixed... please check bugs before reporting?"
> 
> ?? if its already fixed, then why is it still happening?
> 
> I'm seeing LOTS of problems with 2.5.B2... it is certainly not ready
> for prime time. it would be a public relations disaster if it went out
> like this.  I worked in Rev IDE generally speaking 3 hours day in
> various projects... today I hit at least 8 major issues... non have
> been show stoppers except the above... some are scary though, like
> selecting a field and choosing the table under the properties pull down
> and having all the data in the field deleted and replaced with the data
> of a field  on another card in the same background that had been
> previously set to a table object... revert now! ;-( at least I had a
> way to back out. 

And you reported this issue in Bugzilla complete with a recipe?  This list
isn't the right place for bug reports.

> And i like the one about opening a stack name
> "searchfiles.rev" and being told that "You already have a stack open by
> the name of "WebEditor-g4.rev... having two stack open in memory with
> the same name means you could lose some data...." aside from the
> erroneous report (the stacks are completley different) what happened to
> the purge option?

Read the dialog again.  The warning is new, it warns that you have two
substacks of the same name open.  We warn you but allow you to continue.
The Purge option is still there if you open two mainStacks of the same name.

> Then there's the metal stacks where all the objects
> on the face of the card simply disappear ?!  that's fun... resize
> window.. blink, they are back... that's fun and then there's the.....
> 
> IMHO might it not be better to issue a release with the bugs fixed? so
> that we can freely report issues remaining without having to research
> what's been reported already.  I guess I misunderstood Kevin's
> description of B2 as "just a few crash issues remaining.." and the
> assumption all bugs reported has been fixed in B2. I just don't have
> time to check if each one was reported before. Ken's revZilla still not
> working right with fireFox cookies, and manual entry of the cookie log
> in and bugzilla number is not persistent.

We've been testing this release for several months now.  We've marked what
issues we have fixed in Bugzilla, which copies you when your issues have
been addressed.

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu Aug 19 10:27:16 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:27:16 -0600
Subject: Simulating password entry
In-Reply-To: <412432EA.5000706@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
 <412432EA.5000706@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <DEAE383A-F1EB-11D8-9C4F-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Yes, I know about ask password, but I want a login dialog with more 
than one field: user name and password. User name should be in clear 
text, but the password obscured. I would love it if ask password gave 
you a multi-field option, but since it doesn't, I have to roll my own.

Actually, with some help from Chipp, Yves, Richard and others, I have a 
solution that works pretty well. I'll post it when I've thoroughly 
tested it.

Devin

On Aug 18, 2004, at 10:56 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 8/18/04 2:25 PM, Devin Asay wrote:
>
>> All,
>> I'm writing an app that simulates a network server login on Mac OS X. 
>> I want the password field to behave just like normal password fields 
>> in OS X; i.e., bullet characters appear in place of clear text. I've 
>> sorta kinda got it working by trapping the keydown message in the 
>> password field, but it's quirky. Before I spend a lot of time on 
>> this, I thought I'd ask: Has anyone done this and would mind sharing 
>> a script?
>
> It's built in. If you want an encrypted password back:
>
>  ask password "Enter your password"
>
> If you want clear text back:
>
>  ask password clear "Enter your password"
>
> Both return the user entry in the variable "it".
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu Aug 19 10:46:11 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:46:11 -0600
Subject: Script shortcut in b2?
Message-ID: <831A4B0E-F1EE-11D8-9C4F-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Before I bugzilla this, could anyone confirm whether the command-option 
click shortcut for opening scripts is working for you in 2.5b2? I'm on 
Mac OS  X 10.3.5. I know it was working in b1, and I thought it was 
working at first under b2, but I can't make it work. (Yes I did check 
the preference setting--it's on.)

wait 300 seconds -- while I check something....

Okay, I just installed 2.5b2 on my laptop and the shortcut works as 
advertised. What could cause this feature to suddenly stop working? I 
did have a hang once and had to force quit 2.5b2.


Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Thu Aug 19 11:02:19 2004
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:02:19 -0500
Subject: Cross-platform fonts...what is everyone else doing?
In-Reply-To: <C558292C-E0B1-11D8-8C18-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <20040728154824.89C7A930291@mail.runrev.com>
 <C558292C-E0B1-11D8-8C18-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040819100050.0400d8c8@exchange.slg.com>

At 11:18 AM 7/28/2004, you wrote:
>I think I will probably go with a runtime solution, such that when a stack 
>opens for the first time it quickly checks every field for a non-empty 
>font/size/style and resets it to the correct font for that platform.  I 
>don't have that many controls that are bolded or have a different point 
>size, so it should be fast enough.

One thing nice about Authorware is it has a font mapping file in which you 
can set up a font mapping from Windows to Mac and vice versa, not only the 
font names, but also sized, since the sizes are different on Mac and Windows.

I've often wished Rev had a similar feature.

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Aug 19 11:18:13 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:18:13 -0700
Subject: bug reporting for 2.5B2
In-Reply-To: <BD4A73FC.33DA%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BD4A73FC.33DA%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4124C4B5.3090406@fourthworld.com>

Kevin Miller wrote:
> On 19/8/04 4:32 am, "Sannyasin Sivakatirswami" <katir at hindu.org> wrote:
>>I was under the impression that all the bugs were fixed in 2.5B2...
>
> We have never stated that all bugs will be fixed in this, or any other
> release.  We have fixed the vast majority of the issues reported, which is
> what we set out to do.

Verified.

As an occassional contractor I get cc'd with notices of activity in 
Bugzilla.  You'd be amazed at how many "fixed" notices fly by each week 
-- some days I see more of those than I see spam. :)

Kevin's stated objective for v2.5 was to address a majority of 
outstanding bugs.  This would normally be a tough metric, since new bugs 
keep coming in while the others are being worked on (not to mention that 
  few companies dare to publicly state bug-fix goals, and fewer choose a 
goal so aggressive).

But even with that, by my count the team has far surpassed the 50% mark, 
approaching 2/3 if I read the numbers correctly.  This is a big move 
forward, esp. when viewed in light of the new features v2.5 offers: 
industrial-strength encryption (opening up development opportunities in 
banking, medicine, etc.), GTK appearance mangement (opening up 
opportunites across the Linux frontier), and a bunch more.

So yes, there's still work to be done, and that work is being done with 
the help of your reports posted to Bugzilla.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 19 10:44:24 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:44:24 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Beta 2 and verbose log
In-Reply-To: <0EE09FE1-F1B6-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <BD498E6F.2917%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
	<0EE09FE1-F1B6-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4350ABB3-F1EE-11D8-8E47-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 19, 2004, at 4:02 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Is there a way to prevent RevOnline from starting up whenever I launch 
> Rev.  I couldn't find a preference that allowed me to do this.
>
> It significantly slows down the launch of Rev and there are times when 
> I have either a slow internet connection or no internet connection at 
> all--and thus have no use for RevOnline.

It is a preference on the first page called (interestingly enough) 
"Automatically launch RevOnline".
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From europe at ehug.info  Thu Aug 19 11:29:32 2004
From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:29:32 +0200
Subject: Simulating password entry
In-Reply-To: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <4124C75C.6090006@ehug.info>

Devin,

What about using my bullet font? It is in the section "More 
downloads" on my software homepage:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch/software/main.html

There is a bitmap version and a truetype version. The font 
should not be used with commercial projects.

Mark


Devin Asay wrote:
> All,
> 
> I'm writing an app that simulates a network server login on Mac OS X. I 
> want the password field to behave just like normal password fields in OS 
> X; i.e., bullet characters appear in place of clear text. I've sorta 
> kinda got it working by trapping the keydown message in the password 
> field, but it's quirky. Before I spend a lot of time on this, I thought 
> I'd ask: Has anyone done this and would mind sharing a script?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University


-- 

eHUG coordinator
mailto:europe at ehug.info
fax: +1 501 633 94 04
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.ehug.info


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Thu Aug 19 11:40:35 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:40:35 -0400
Subject: Script shortcut in b2?
In-Reply-To: <831A4B0E-F1EE-11D8-9C4F-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <BD4A4233.2951%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

For the first time ever in 2.5b2 it works fine for me. I like it much better
than the old mouse-over thing which never worked.


On 8/19/04 10:46 AM, "Devin Asay" <devin_asay at byu.edu> wrote:

> Before I bugzilla this, could anyone confirm whether the command-option
> click shortcut for opening scripts is working for you in 2.5b2? I'm on
> Mac OS  X 10.3.5. I know it was working in b1, and I thought it was
> working at first under b2, but I can't make it work. (Yes I did check
> the preference setting--it's on.)
> 
> wait 300 seconds -- while I check something....
> 
> Okay, I just installed 2.5b2 on my laptop and the shortcut works as
> advertised. What could cause this feature to suddenly stop working? I
> did have a hang once and had to force quit 2.5b2.
> 
> 
> Devin
> 
> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From bill at igame3d.com  Thu Aug 19 12:50:30 2004
From: bill at igame3d.com (william griffin)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:50:30 -0400
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX
In-Reply-To: <20040819113905.D048F93008D@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040819113905.D048F93008D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <E1073FE1-F1FF-11D8-8953-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:53:28 -0500
> From: Jerry Daniels <jerry at daniels-mara.com>
> Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX
> To: Use Revolution List use Revolution
> 	<use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <6B6103FF-F169-11D8-B8D7-000A95B300EC at daniels-mara.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Gang,
>
> I've noticed that in some stacks running in the IDE under OSX appear
> momentarily white and then their background color or image appears.
> This is VERY brief, but it can be seen as a flicker. It's more
> noticeable because my backgrounds are different shades of charcoal.
>
> This is also seen when I switch from the finder to Rev and my stack
> redraws.
>
> I've looked at the archives (nada) and tried fiddling with
> alwaysBuffer, bufferhiddenImages and screenNoPixmaps to no avail.
>
> Any thoughts, haters of flicker?
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry
>
My stacks and stand alones in OS X occasionally open up TOTALY Black, 
nothing can be seen.
I have to resize the stack to get the controls to show up and the 
blackness to vanish.

Mr Bill


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu Aug 19 12:58:49 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:58:49 -0600
Subject: Simulating password entry
In-Reply-To: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <4F14CD84-F14C-11D8-ADDA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <0A9E3677-F201-11D8-9C4F-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Thanks to all who sent suggestions. Here's what I came up with (beware 
line wraps):

global passwd

on keydown whichKey
   put word 2 of the selectedChunk of me into sChar
   put word 4 of the selectedChunk of me into eChar
   if eChar > sChar then -- some text is selected
     delete char sChar to eChar of me
     delete char sChar to eChar of passwd
   end if
   put word 2 of the selectedChunk of me into sChar
   put word 4 of the selectedChunk of me into eChar
   put whichKey after char eChar of passwd
   put numtochar(165) after char eChar of me
end keyDown

on backspaceKey
   put word 2 of the selectedChunk of me into sChar
   put word 4 of the selectedChunk of me into eChar
   if eChar > sChar then -- text is selected
     delete char sChar to eChar of me
     delete char sChar to eChar of passwd
   else
     delete char eChar of me
     delete char eChar of passwd
   end if
end backspaceKey

on deleteKey
   put word 2 of the selectedChunk of me into sChar
   put word 4 of the selectedChunk of me into eChar
   if eChar > sChar then -- text is selected
     delete char sChar to eChar of me
     delete char sChar to eChar of passwd
   else
     delete char eChar of me
     delete char eChar of passwd
   end if
end deleteKey

on returnInField
   click at the loc of btn "connect"
end returnInField

On Aug 18, 2004, at 1:25 PM, Devin Asay wrote:

> All,
>
> I'm writing an app that simulates a network server login on Mac OS X. 
> I want the password field to behave just like normal password fields 
> in OS X; i.e., bullet characters appear in place of clear text. I've 
> sorta kinda got it working by trapping the keydown message in the 
> password field, but it's quirky. Before I spend a lot of time on this, 
> I thought I'd ask: Has anyone done this and would mind sharing a 
> script?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 19 13:05:28 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:05:28 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Beta 2 and verbose log
In-Reply-To: <4350ABB3-F1EE-11D8-8E47-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <BD498E6F.2917%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
	<0EE09FE1-F1B6-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<4350ABB3-F1EE-11D8-8E47-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <F8A1A102-F201-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Believe it or not, I did look there and somehow (don't ask me how) I 
missed it.  Musta been brain-dead. Thanks.

M
On Aug 19, 2004, at 10:44 AM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 19, 2004, at 4:02 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to prevent RevOnline from starting up whenever I 
>> launch Rev.  I couldn't find a preference that allowed me to do this.
>>
>> It significantly slows down the launch of Rev and there are times 
>> when I have either a slow internet connection or no internet 
>> connection at all--and thus have no use for RevOnline.
>
> It is a preference on the first page called (interestingly enough) 
> "Automatically launch RevOnline".
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Aug 19 13:16:34 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:16:34 -0300
Subject: Accessing other stacks in LibCGI
In-Reply-To: <06E9C845-F1E2-11D8-AD56-000A9569E638@de-mare.nl>
References: <06E9C845-F1E2-11D8-AD56-000A9569E638@de-mare.nl>
Message-ID: <8598BB64-F203-11D8-BE16-0003936D012E@mac.com>


Terry,

I usually stick to using text files with libCGI, I never tried a 
content stack like that. I would suggest you try one of these:

First option:  Make agenda a substack of your mainstack, this way it 
would load anyway.

Second option: try using go invisible stack <filepath>, on your 
libraryStack handler, load agenda this way, so when you need to 
performe any command, it will be in memory.

Tell me if you managed that.

Andre




On Aug 19, 2004, at 10:16 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> While LibCGI helped me a lot in building my website, there is one 
> issue I can't resolve yet.
>
> I have a 'content' stack and I want to access information in another 
> stack named 'agenda'. And I can't figure out how.
> I tried:
>
> lock messages
> start using "path/to/agenda.rev"
> put functionInAgenda() into a
>
> That worked as long as I let functionInAgenda just return plain 
> information. If I want to access a field on a card, it fails.
>
> I even tried:
> put url 
> "http://www.de-mare.nl/cgi-bin/form.cgi?stack=agenda&cmd=cmdinagenda" 
> into a
>
> The space where the data should be inserted stayed empty, while the 
> url itself worked OK in a browser.
>
> I also tried to mare agenda a substack of content an do:
> put value("functionInAgenda()",stack "agenda") into a
>
> Same result. If I specify a card in "agenda" it can't be found. If I 
> check the name of the first card, it gives the name of the first card 
> of stack 'content' instead. If I add 'of stack "agenda"' it solves the 
> problem in the development environment, but the webbrowser gives an 
> infinite load time.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Terry
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From tvogelaar at de-mare.nl  Thu Aug 19 14:24:55 2004
From: tvogelaar at de-mare.nl (Terry Vogelaar (de Mare))
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:24:55 +0200
Subject: Accessing other stacks in LibCGI
In-Reply-To: <8598BB64-F203-11D8-BE16-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <11E042A8-F20D-11D8-8892-0030656FD666@de-mare.nl>

Andre Garzia heeft op donderdag, 19 aug 2004 om 19:16 
(Europe/Amsterdam) het volgende geschreven:

> I usually stick to using text files with libCGI, I never tried a 
> content stack like that. I would suggest you try one of these:
>
> First option:  Make agenda a substack of your mainstack, this way it 
> would load anyway.
>
> Second option: try using go invisible stack <filepath>, on your 
> libraryStack handler, load agenda this way, so when you need to 
> performe any command, it will be in memory.
>
> Tell me if you managed that.

I tried both of your solutions, but the problem doesn't seem to be 
loading the stack into memory. The test function
function functionInAgenda
   return "Works!"
end functionInAgenda
indeed returned the string, although it was in the other stack. But 
when I let the function return anything on a card, it refused.

But what you wrote in the first line might solve the problem as well. I 
don't really need to store this data in a stack! The content of 
'content' is more complex so I'd prefer to keep that in a stack, but 
the agenda can be an external text file or a custom property.

Thanks.

> On Aug 19, 2004, at 10:16 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> While LibCGI helped me a lot in building my website, there is one 
>> issue I can't resolve yet.
>>
>> I have a 'content' stack and I want to access information in another 
>> stack named 'agenda'. And I can't figure out how.
>> I tried:
>>
>> lock messages
>> start using "path/to/agenda.rev"
>> put functionInAgenda() into a
>>
>> That worked as long as I let functionInAgenda just return plain 
>> information. If I want to access a field on a card, it fails.
>>
>> I even tried:
>> put url 
>> "http://www.de-mare.nl/cgi-bin/form.cgi?stack=agenda&cmd=cmdinagenda" 
>> into a
>>
>> The space where the data should be inserted stayed empty, while the 
>> url itself worked OK in a browser.
>>
>> I also tried to mare agenda a substack of content an do:
>> put value("functionInAgenda()",stack "agenda") into a
>>
>> Same result. If I specify a card in "agenda" it can't be found. If I 
>> check the name of the first card, it gives the name of the first card 
>> of stack 'content' instead. If I add 'of stack "agenda"' it solves 
>> the problem in the development environment, but the webbrowser gives 
>> an infinite load time.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Terry
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> -- 
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Aug 19 14:52:41 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:52:41 -0300
Subject: Accessing other stacks in LibCGI
In-Reply-To: <11E042A8-F20D-11D8-8892-0030656FD666@de-mare.nl>
References: <11E042A8-F20D-11D8-8892-0030656FD666@de-mare.nl>
Message-ID: <F302FE04-F210-11D8-BE16-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 19, 2004, at 3:24 PM, Terry Vogelaar (de Mare) wrote:

> I tried both of your solutions, but the problem doesn't seem to be 
> loading the stack into memory. The test function
> function functionInAgenda
>   return "Works!"
> end functionInAgenda
> indeed returned the string, although it was in the other stack. But 
> when I let the function return anything on a card, it refused.
>
> But what you wrote in the first line might solve the problem as well. 
> I don't really need to store this data in a stack! The content of 
> 'content' is more complex so I'd prefer to keep that in a stack, but 
> the agenda can be an external text file or a custom property.
>

Terry,

when you say doesn't work you mean return empty or trigger error?
Also check if the agenda stack is loaded, check if the card and the 
control you want is there... use the "there is a" function. Try 
refering them by the ID too...

cheers
andre




> Thanks.
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From katir at hindu.org  Thu Aug 19 15:16:35 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:16:35 -1000
Subject: bug reporting for 2.5B2
In-Reply-To: <BD4A73FC.33DA%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BD4A73FC.33DA%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4953D0F0-F214-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Thanks Kevin, that's clear..

Just in case any newbies are lurking on this thread. Don't take these 
comments the wrong way. Make not mistake about it: Revolution is the 
best tool on the market and my favorite oftware and  has allows us to 
do things (as non-programmers) that we would have otherwise had to hire 
out for 100's of thousands of dollars.

OK back on point here. Focus on issues..

Re drag and drop problem, yes, using 2.5B2 and no didn't copy plug ins 
folder but yes did copy "some" plug ins that I use.

I will send it another bug report... as I depend on this facility quite 
heavily (ability to get a full path from a file drop to a field that 
copies it to the clipboard.


Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org
>
>
>> So I reported a bug that continues to persist in 2.5B2:
>>
>> Drop file from finder on a field which traps the drop, not only 
>> returns
>> the path to the file (intended behavior.. I use this all the time, all
>> day long) but creates a field and posts the data from the file into 
>> the
>> field.  so, if I get the path for a 80 mg psd file... rev tries to put
>> all that binary data into the field. Crashes of course.
>
> Are you sure you are using 2.5B2?  There is no script in B2 that does 
> that,
> its not an engine behavior, so check your scripts, or that you haven't
> copied the old "plug ins" folder from a previous release.
>
>


From warren at howsoft.com  Thu Aug 19 15:31:25 2004
From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:31:25 -0300
Subject: Questions about Altbrowser and SVG 
Message-ID: <000401c48625$2a489bd0$0301a8c0@john>

JB,

In my opinion, Chipp's advice to go for Flash to do your animations is
undoubtedly the best solution for various reasons. However, it is perfectly
possible to do animations in SVG using a SINGLE SCRIPT, not a succession of
scripts as you had in mind. (In fact, it probably wouldn't work as a
succession of scripts.) A fly in the ointment regarding practicality is
the fact that SVG is relatively new, and there aren't many editors around
that would enable you to create your animations easily. And writing the
script directly for an animated vector graphic ain't easy either.

Your Flash animations would be shown in the altBrowser exactly the same as
they are in the Internet Explorer (without IE's decorations of course).




From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Thu Aug 19 17:30:06 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 23:30:06 +0200
Subject: Questions about Altbrowser and SVG
References: <000401c48625$2a489bd0$0301a8c0@john>
Message-ID: <41251BDC.FF35FD13@Club-Internet.fr>



Bob,

Thanx for all the advices.

Nevertheless, Flash is far from being the perfect solution
(at least for my project) : if you want your animation to
react and being modified according to the user's previous
actions, you need to set up complex Transcript / Actionscript
interaction (a real nightmare - I've tried before).

OTOH, a "simple" antialiased Bezier tool (for which one could
set control points, just like you set points for a graphic control),
combined with the use of ink & blendlevel & angle properties for
images would allow "easy" (which means easier by several orders
of magnitude) Flash-like animations within Rev with full control.

I've coded such a Bezier tool in openGL within a few hours.
The difficulty is then to mix it with other controls on the card...

Again, at the risk of being nasty, I still don't understand why
neither the MC or the Rev crew ever responded to that request
during the past 2 years or so...

Thanks again,
JB


> JB,
>
> In my opinion, Chipp's advice to go for Flash to do your animations is
> undoubtedly the best solution for various reasons. However, it is perfectly
> possible to do animations in SVG using a SINGLE SCRIPT, not a succession of
> scripts as you had in mind. (In fact, it probably wouldn't work as a
> succession of scripts.) A fly in the ointment regarding practicality is
> the fact that SVG is relatively new, and there aren't many editors around
> that would enable you to create your animations easily. And writing the
> script directly for an animated vector graphic ain't easy either.
>
> Your Flash animations would be shown in the altBrowser exactly the same as
> they are in the Internet Explorer (without IE's decorations of course).
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 19 17:50:15 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:50:15 -0400
Subject: Rev 2.5b2 dox not working yet?
In-Reply-To: <41251BDC.FF35FD13@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <000401c48625$2a489bd0$0301a8c0@john>
	<41251BDC.FF35FD13@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <C146A716-F229-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

When I try to look up an item in the docs (dictionary:  player object) 
I get an appropriate list at the left but highlighting and/or double 
clicking on an item does not change the text at the right--I keep 
getting what appears to be the entry for xmlerr

Is this expected behavior (ie, an area that is still being worked on) 
or a reportable bug?

(When I tried to search for controller toggle--which is what I really 
wanted to know about--Rev seemed to hang; had to force quit to get out 
of Rev.)

Also, I gather that the links to the videos are not yet active. Is that 
right?

M


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug 19 18:02:19 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:02:19 -0500
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX
In-Reply-To: <E1073FE1-F1FF-11D8-8953-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
Message-ID: <BD4A8D9B.43C8%kray@sonsothunder.com>


>> I've looked at the archives (nada) and tried fiddling with
>> alwaysBuffer, bufferhiddenImages and screenNoPixmaps to no avail.
>> 
>> Any thoughts, haters of flicker?
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Jerry
>> 
> My stacks and stand alones in OS X occasionally open up TOTALY Black,
> nothing can be seen.
> I have to resize the stack to get the controls to show up and the
> blackness to vanish.

Funny, I thought it was just me... but for me it's on Windows XP where this
happens. A lock/unlock screen combo will redraw, but it shouldn't be there
in the first place.

Bill, did you Bugzilla this by any chance? If so, I'll add my "me too"s...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu Aug 19 18:26:27 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:26:27 -0600
Subject: Rev 2.2 Windows player object bug
Message-ID: <CFCD4A18-F22E-11D8-9C4F-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

All,

A few weeks ago I remember reading a thread regarding a player object 
bug in Rev 2.2 Windows that caused a sound to stop playing before it 
reached its end, but only if the player object was invisible. The 
workaround was to move the player offscreen.

I've searched the archives and bugzilla to try to learn whether this 
has been reported and/or resolved, but couldn't find anything. Could 
someone with a better memory than mine please let me know the status of 
this bug (or at least where to look for it.)

Thanks.

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Thu Aug 19 18:49:06 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:49:06 -0400
Subject: Rev 2.5b2 dox not working yet?
In-Reply-To: <C146A716-F229-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BD4AA6A2.2983%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>


Same thing happened to me. I didn't like the hang when asking for dictionary
so I went to bugzilla with it which is now bug #2030

On 8/19/04 5:50 PM, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:

> When I try to look up an item in the docs (dictionary:  player object)
> I get an appropriate list at the left but highlighting and/or double
> clicking on an item does not change the text at the right--I keep
> getting what appears to be the entry for xmlerr
> 
> Is this expected behavior (ie, an area that is still being worked on)
> or a reportable bug?
> 
> (When I tried to search for controller toggle--which is what I really
> wanted to know about--Rev seemed to hang; had to force quit to get out
> of Rev.)
> 
> Also, I gather that the links to the videos are not yet active. Is that
> right?
> 
> M
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 19 18:53:59 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:53:59 -0400
Subject: Rev 2.5b2 dox not working yet?
In-Reply-To: <BD4AA6A2.2983%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BD4AA6A2.2983%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <A86D4EDC-F232-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Thanks

On Aug 19, 2004, at 6:49 PM, Bill wrote:

>
> Same thing happened to me. I didn't like the hang when asking for 
> dictionary
> so I went to bugzilla with it which is now bug #2030
>
> On 8/19/04 5:50 PM, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> When I try to look up an item in the docs (dictionary:  player object)
>> I get an appropriate list at the left but highlighting and/or double
>> clicking on an item does not change the text at the right--I keep
>> getting what appears to be the entry for xmlerr
>>
>> Is this expected behavior (ie, an area that is still being worked on)
>> or a reportable bug?
>>
>> (When I tried to search for controller toggle--which is what I really
>> wanted to know about--Rev seemed to hang; had to force quit to get out
>> of Rev.)
>>
>> Also, I gather that the links to the videos are not yet active. Is 
>> that
>> right?
>>
>> M
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
>             |    |    |
>            )_)  )_)  )_)
>           )___))___))___)\
>          )____)____)_____)\\
>        _____|____|____|____\\\__
> -------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
>  ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
>        ^^^^      ^^^
>
> 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
> fax: (787) 809-8426
>
> Blue Water Maritime
> P.O. Box 91
> Puerto Real, PR 00740
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From rodney at oceanbrowser.com  Thu Aug 19 19:56:59 2004
From: rodney at oceanbrowser.com (Rodney Tamblyn)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:56:59 +1200
Subject: Accessing other stacks in LibCGI
In-Reply-To: <F302FE04-F210-11D8-BE16-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <11E042A8-F20D-11D8-8892-0030656FD666@de-mare.nl>
	<F302FE04-F210-11D8-BE16-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7572E813-F23B-11D8-8A33-003065F97100@oceanbrowser.com>

Hi Terry,

You *think* (you'll need to check this) you can access data in custom 
properties of stacks, but not fields, when the stack is accessed by the 
command line engine.  e.g. you can start using a stack, and execute a 
function that may (for example) retrieve data stored in a custom 
property of the stack, but you cannot navigate to a card, get a field 
etc.

~ Rodney
--
Rodney Tamblyn
OceanBrowser Ltd
44 Melville Street
Dunedin, New Zealand
Ph +64-3-4778606
http://www.oceanbrowser.com/


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Thu Aug 19 20:48:42 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:18:42 +0930
Subject: bug reporting for 2.5B2
In-Reply-To: <4953D0F0-F214-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEOLEOAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>Re drag and drop problem, yes, using 2.5B2 and no didn't copy plug ins
>folder but yes did copy "some" plug ins that I use.

Make sure revDropFile is not in your plugins folder. It was an experiment I
did while I was chatting to Chipp one afternoon and never intended it to be
part of the IDE.

Cheers

Monte


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Aug 19 23:02:26 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:02:26 -0700
Subject: AppleScript won't compile (?)
Message-ID: <412569C2.9080604@fourthworld.com>

Pasted below is an AppleScript I found at 
<http://www.apple.com/applescript/quicktime/> to obtain info about 
chapter tracks in movies.

While I can paste it and run it fine in AppleScript Editor, putting it 
into a field and using:

   do fld 1 as AppleScript

...generates an error: "compiler error" (not very helpful)

So my question is:

    What could be causing the script to run well in AppleScript
    Editor but not using Rev's "do" command?

TIA -

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


--------------- the script in question -----------

tell application "QuickTime Player"
	launch
	activate
	try
		if not (exists movie 1) then error "No movies are open."
		stop every movie

		-- CHECK FOR THE CORRECT VERSION
		set QT_version to (QuickTime version as string)
		set player_version to (version as string)
		if (QT_version is less than "5.0") or ?
			(player_version is less than "5.0") then
			error "This script requires QuickTime 5.0 or greater." & ?
				return & return & ?
				"Current QuickTime Version: " & QT_version & return & ?
				"Current QuickTime Player Version: " & player_version
		end if

		-- CHECK FOR QUICKTIME PRO
		if QuickTime Pro installed is false then
			set the target_URL to "http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/"
			display dialog "This script requires QuickTime Pro." & return & 
return & ?
				"If this computer is currently connected to the Internet, " & ?
				"click the Upgrade 
 button to visit the QuickTime Website at:" & ?
				return & return & target_URL buttons {"Upgrade", "Cancel"} default 
button 2
			ignoring application responses
				tell application "Finder"
					open location target_URL
				end tell
			end ignoring
			error number -128
		end if
		
		tell movie 1
			if the (count of chapters) is not 0 then
				set this_track to the current chapter track
				set the chapter_names to the name of every chapter of this_track
				set the chapter_times to the time of every chapter of this_track
				set the chapter_durations to the duration of every chapter of this_track
				set the chapter_infolist to {}
				repeat with i from 1 to the count of the the chapter_names
					set the end of the chapter_infolist to ?
						(item i of chapter_names & "    " & item i of chapter_times & " 
  " & item i of chapter_durations)
					
				end repeat
				choose from list chapter_infolist with prompt ("Chapter Summary" & 
return & "Name  " Start  " Duration") cancel button name " " with empty 
selection allowed
			else
				error "The front movie has no chapters."
			end if
		end tell
	on error error_message number error_number
		if the error_number is not -128 then
			beep
			display dialog error_message buttons {"Cancel"} default button 1
		end if
	end try
end tell

-------------------------------------------------

From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Aug 19 23:22:12 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:22:12 +1000
Subject: AppleScript won't compile (?)
In-Reply-To: <412569C2.9080604@fourthworld.com>
References: <412569C2.9080604@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20A301C7-F258-11D8-8EC1-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

This is very odd. I have always recommended that AppleScripts only be 
transferred to Rev after they have been tested in the AppleScript 
editor, and have never had a script that worked in one & not the 
othere. The only idea I had was the line continuations. Does it work if 
you make all the wrapped lines into single lines?

Cheers,
Sarah


On 20 Aug 2004, at 1:05 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Pasted below is an AppleScript I found at 
> <http://www.apple.com/applescript/quicktime/> to obtain info about 
> chapter tracks in movies.
>
> While I can paste it and run it fine in AppleScript Editor, putting it 
> into a field and using:
>
>   do fld 1 as AppleScript
>
> ..generates an error: "compiler error" (not very helpful)
>
> So my question is:
>
>    What could be causing the script to run well in AppleScript
>    Editor but not using Rev's "do" command?


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Aug 19 23:52:51 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:52:51 -0700
Subject: AppleScript won't compile (?)
In-Reply-To: <20A301C7-F258-11D8-8EC1-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <412569C2.9080604@fourthworld.com>
	<20A301C7-F258-11D8-8EC1-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <41257593.9030004@fourthworld.com>

Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> This is very odd. I have always recommended that AppleScripts only be 
> transferred to Rev after they have been tested in the AppleScript 
> editor, and have never had a script that worked in one & not the othere. 
> The only idea I had was the line continuations. Does it work if you make 
> all the wrapped lines into single lines?

Thanks for looking into it.  I found the culprit: it was the "choose 
from list" AppleScript command.  That's okay, because I don't really 
want to display a list of chapter info but merely return it to Rev, so 
not having that available doesn't bother me.

Still curious as to why that doesn't work from Rev, though.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug 20 00:34:19 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 23:34:19 -0500
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <20040818212121.39002.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040818212121.39002.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41257F4B.2030209@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/18/04 4:21 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:

> --- "Ken Norris (dialup)"
> <pixelbird at interisland.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>we (I) desperately need Shakobox for
>>
>>Windows.
>>
>> somehow figure out timing for playback,
> 
> 
> ay, there's the rub.
> 
> 
>>What is it, exactly, that you want to do? Why
>>can't you just create MIDI
>>files with one of the softwares available for
>>Windows and incorporate them
>>into your stacks?
> 
> 
> my graphics need to be precisely coordinated
> with the music. at least to the measure, if not
> the beat. tempo can change within a composition.
> this is dance choreography which is in lockstep
> with the music.
> 
> right now i am getting an extra 17 milliseconds
> for each repeat in the pendingmessages
> 
> on andale
>   ...
>   put 0 into counter
>   repeat with 1 = pStart to pEnd
>      put (counter * 1000) into tSpeed
>      send "setDancers i" to me in tSpeed
> milliseconds
>      add 1 to counter
>   end repeat
> ...
> end andale
> 
> exact sound and motion coordination is
> an absolute must. nightmares about moving
> to director... Scott Rossi said something about
> using Flash within RR, but hopefully it can all
> be done here.

It would be tedious and you'd have to use MIDI or another sound format 
in a player object, but the only other thing I can think of is to create 
a lookup table that has pairs of time stamps and graphics. You'd have to 
do each piece of music individually, which is the tedious part. You'd 
note the place in the music where each graphic needs to change and store 
a table where the first number is the time in the movie and the second 
is the graphics number, something like this:

0,1
155,2
423,3

and so forth. Then create a handler that sends itself a message every 
few milliseconds. The handler would check the currentTime of the movie 
and if it matches an entry in the table, it sets the dancer to the 
graphic indicated by the second item in the line.

local myTable -- contains the numbers list

on andale
  get the currentTime of player "myMusic"
  put lineoffset(cr&it,cr&myTable) into theMatch
  if theMatch > 0 then
    setDancers (item 2 of line theMatch of cr&myTable)
  end if
  send "andale" to me in 100 milliseconds
end andale

The carriage returns are to make sure that only numbers at the 
beginnings of the lines match. The above is untested, so you may need to 
tweak it. You'd also have to write something that stops the messaging 
when the player stops.

Alternately, you could try the Shakobox for Windows file that Judy 
posted. The link still works and I was able to grab the file, but I 
haven't had time to test it yet.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From bill at igame3d.com  Fri Aug 20 00:40:17 2004
From: bill at igame3d.com (william griffin)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 00:40:17 -0400
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (or black)  - OSX
In-Reply-To: <20040820035008.6244C930101@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040820035008.6244C930101@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <093370F4-F263-11D8-8953-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

>
> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:02:19 -0500
> From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject:
>
>>> I've looked at the archives (nada) and tried fiddling with
>>> alwaysBuffer, bufferhiddenImages and screenNoPixmaps to no avail.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts, haters of flicker?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Jerry
>>>
>> My stacks and stand alones in OS X occasionally open up TOTALY Black,
>> nothing can be seen.
>> I have to resize the stack to get the controls to show up and the
>> blackness to vanish.
>
> Funny, I thought it was just me... but for me it's on Windows XP where 
> this
> happens. A lock/unlock screen combo will redraw, but it shouldn't be 
> there
> in the first place.
>
> Bill, did you Bugzilla this by any chance? If so, I'll add my "me 
> too"s...
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com

Nope Sorry no Bugzilla of this, else I'd have posted the URL to it.
I can't make it happen consistently in IDE or standalone, it just 
happens out of the blue, and as usual I can't
begin to guess why. It happens when opening a stack, either the main 
stack or a sub stack.
I had lock/unlock screen all over the place at one point, and then 
removed them all thinking they were
related to the "menuMode"-inspector menu Button lock up bug. Guess I 
have to go  and put them all back in,
as a work around for the bizarre black stack attack.

Mr Bill


From paul at psystems.com.au  Fri Aug 20 00:46:24 2004
From: paul at psystems.com.au (Paul Arnott)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:46:24 +1000
Subject: Should I wait for 2.5 to be released?
Message-ID: <41258220.6080600@psystems.com.au>

Dear List,
I'm keen to get started with Rev, but am wondering whether I should wait 
for ver2.5 to be released. As I read it, a Rev license doesn't entitle 
you to any upgrades. I've had a look at 2.5 and it has some features I 
would like, such as SSL. My question is should I wait, or should I go 
with 2.2?
Paul

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 01:19:23 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 01:19:23 -0400
Subject: Should I wait for 2.5 to be released?
In-Reply-To: <41258220.6080600@psystems.com.au>
References: <41258220.6080600@psystems.com.au>
Message-ID: <7F936A4E-F268-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Paul,

Whether you get updates depends on the license you buy.  The license I 
have (Enterprise) gives me free updates for a year.

But, if you are not intending to buy one of the licenses that come with 
free updates,  then I would definitely wait for 2.5 to be 
released--which should not be long now, based on what I've seen of 
2.5b2 and on what the folks from RunRev have said both here and 
elsewhere.

Marian
On Aug 20, 2004, at 12:46 AM, Paul Arnott wrote:

> Dear List,
> I'm keen to get started with Rev, but am wondering whether I should 
> wait for ver2.5 to be released. As I read it, a Rev license doesn't 
> entitle you to any upgrades. I've had a look at 2.5 and it has some 
> features I would like, such as SSL. My question is should I wait, or 
> should I go with 2.2?
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From tvogelaar at de-mare.nl  Fri Aug 20 01:28:21 2004
From: tvogelaar at de-mare.nl (Terry Vogelaar (de Mare))
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:28:21 +0200
Subject: Accessing other stacks in LibCGI
In-Reply-To: <F302FE04-F210-11D8-BE16-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BFEFE943-F269-11D8-BCC3-0030656FD666@de-mare.nl>

Rodney Tamblyn heeft op vrijdag, 20 aug 2004 om 01:56 
(Europe/Amsterdam) het volgende geschreven:

> Hi Terry,
>
> You *think* (you'll need to check this) you can access data in custom 
> properties of stacks, but not fields, when the stack is accessed by 
> the command line engine.  e.g. you can start using a stack, and 
> execute a function that may (for example) retrieve data stored in a 
> custom property of the stack, but you cannot navigate to a card, get a 
> field etc.
>
> ~ Rodney

What you write seems to be correct.

Andre Garzia heeft op donderdag, 19 aug 2004 om 20:52 
(Europe/Amsterdam) het volgende geschreven:

>> I tried both of your solutions, but the problem doesn't seem to be 
>> loading the stack into memory. The test function
>> indeed returned the string, although it was in the other stack. But 
>> when I let the function return anything on a card, it refused.
>>
>> But what you wrote in the first line might solve the problem as well. 
>> I don't really need to store this data in a stack! The content of 
>> 'content' is more complex so I'd prefer to keep that in a stack, but 
>> the agenda can be an external text file or a custom property.
>
> When you say doesn't work you mean return empty or trigger error?
> Also check if the agenda stack is loaded, check if the card and the 
> control you want is there... use the "there is a" function. Try 
> refering them by the ID too...

It returns empty. If I check with 'if there is a cd cardnamevar', it 
evaluates false and the function returns what is in the 'else' part. 
Since I was very sure that there was a card with that name, I checked 
the name of the first card to find out in which stack it was searching. 
It returned the name of 'content', so it was just searching in the 
wrong stack.

I'll try a tip someone mailed me personally and if that doesn't solve 
anything, I put everything in a text file. That seems to be the 
simplest. And the simplest is often the best solution.

Terry


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 01:32:10 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 01:32:10 -0400
Subject: AppleScript won't compile (?)
In-Reply-To: <41257593.9030004@fourthworld.com>
References: <412569C2.9080604@fourthworld.com>
	<20A301C7-F258-11D8-8EC1-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
	<41257593.9030004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <48A94C7A-F26A-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

That's odd because when I try to compile this script in AppleScript 
editor it gives me a compile error at exactly the same spot:  Syntax 
error: expected comma but found identifier  with the highlighted word 
(identifier) being chapter.
M

On Aug 19, 2004, at 11:52 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>
>> This is very odd. I have always recommended that AppleScripts only be 
>> transferred to Rev after they have been tested in the AppleScript 
>> editor, and have never had a script that worked in one & not the 
>> othere. The only idea I had was the line continuations. Does it work 
>> if you make all the wrapped lines into single lines?
>
> Thanks for looking into it.  I found the culprit: it was the "choose 
> from list" AppleScript command.  That's okay, because I don't really 
> want to display a list of chapter info but merely return it to Rev, so 
> not having that available doesn't bother me.
>
> Still curious as to why that doesn't work from Rev, though.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Aug 20 01:41:16 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:41:16 -0700
Subject: Accessing other stacks in LibCGI
In-Reply-To: <BFEFE943-F269-11D8-BCC3-0030656FD666@de-mare.nl>
References: <BFEFE943-F269-11D8-BCC3-0030656FD666@de-mare.nl>
Message-ID: <41258EFC.9060100@fourthworld.com>

Terry Vogelaar (de Mare) wrote:
> I'll try a tip someone mailed me personally and if that doesn't solve 
> anything, I put everything in a text file. That seems to be the 
> simplest. And the simplest is often the best solution.

In my experience you can access properties of objects, and even create 
them, so long as you don't do anything that would require rendering the 
card, since the faceless engine won't be able to render.

For example, you should be able to say:

   get the text of fld 1 of cd 3 of stack "MyStack.rev"

   create button in stack "MyStack.rev"
   set the uMyProp of btn 1 of stack "MyStack.rev" to "Howdy"

But you cannot say:

   go cd 1 of stack "MyStack.rev"

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Aug 20 01:46:00 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:46:00 -0700
Subject: AppleScript won't compile (?)
In-Reply-To: <48A94C7A-F26A-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <412569C2.9080604@fourthworld.com>
	<20A301C7-F258-11D8-8EC1-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
	<41257593.9030004@fourthworld.com>
	<48A94C7A-F26A-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <41259018.7010101@fourthworld.com>

Marian Petrides wrote:
 > On Aug 19, 2004, at 11:52 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >> Sarah Reichelt wrote:
 >>> This is very odd. I have always recommended that AppleScripts only
 >>> be transferred to Rev after they have been tested in the AppleScript
 >>> editor, and have never had a script that worked in one & not the
 >>> othere. The only idea I had was the line continuations. Does it work
 >>> if you make all the wrapped lines into single lines?
 >>
 >> Thanks for looking into it.  I found the culprit: it was the "choose
 >> from list" AppleScript command.  That's okay, because I don't really
 >> want to display a list of chapter info but merely return it to Rev,
 >> so not having that available doesn't bother me.
 >>
 >> Still curious as to why that doesn't work from Rev, though.
 >
 > That's odd because when I try to compile this script in AppleScript
 > editor it gives me a compile error at exactly the same spot:  Syntax
 > error: expected comma but found identifier  with the highlighted word
 > (identifier) being chapter.

It may be a formatting issue caused by email; when I open the script 
directly from Apple's example it runs, and when I Select All, Copy, and 
Paste into a new script in AppleScript editor it runs, but when I paste 
into a Rev field and try to run from there it fails.

If you're inclined to try it (it's a useful set of scripts to have 
anyway if you need to script the QT Player) it's at:
<http://www.apple.com/applescript/quicktime/>

Once the archive is decompressed the example I used is in:

  QuickTime Player Scripts/Chapters/Chapter Summary.scpt



-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 20 01:52:42 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:52:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Accessing other stacks in LibCGI
In-Reply-To: <7572E813-F23B-11D8-8A33-003065F97100@oceanbrowser.com>
Message-ID: <20040820055242.89471.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Rodney Tamblyn <rodney at oceanbrowser.com> wrote:
> Hi Terry,
> 
> You *think* (you'll need to check this) you can
> access data in custom 
> properties of stacks, but not fields, when the stack
> is accessed by the 
> command line engine.  e.g. you can start using a
> stack, and execute a 
> function that may (for example) retrieve data stored
> in a custom 
> property of the stack, but you cannot navigate to a
> card, get a field 
> etc.
> 
> ~ Rodney
> 

Actually, why not just go to the right card in the
stack and execute the function ? I made a simple test
stack with a single bakcground field "Memo" and the
following cgi-scripts to test :

1. newmemo.mt
--
#!revolution
on startUp
  open stack "smemo.rev"
  go last card
  create card
  put "I made this with the cgi-engine," && \
      the internet date && "!" into field "memo"
  save stack "smemo.rev"
  close stack "smemo.rev"
  put "Added 1 card" into tBuffer
  put "Content-Type: text/plain" & cr
  put "Content-Length:" && length(tBuffer) & cr & cr
  put tBuffer
end startUp
--

2. showmemo.mt
--
#!revolution
on startUp
  put $QUERY_STRING into tQuery
  split tQuery using "&" and "="
  put tQuery["number"] into tCardNumber
  open stack "smemo.rev"
  go card tCardNumber
  put "Content of 'memo' field:" & return & \
      field "memo" into tBuffer
  close stack "smemo"
  put "Content-Type: text/plain" & cr
  put "Content-Length:" && length(tBuffer) & cr & cr
  put tBuffer
end startUp
--

I triggered newmemo a couple of times, checked the
content with Revolution to make sure there was data in
the stack.
Then I wanted to see if the cgi-engine could get the
content of the field from card 3 with:
  http://localhost/cgi-bin/showmemo.mt?number=3
And I got the correct result.

[And before any of the security experts say anything,
this is running on a separate box on my local network
so security is not an issue for these tests]

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel


		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

From david at opn-technologies.com  Fri Aug 20 05:50:19 2004
From: david at opn-technologies.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:50:19 +0100
Subject: Localizer - Transcriptlator - opinion request
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEBFGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEBFGGAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <4125C95B.9080608@opn-technologies.com>

MisterX wrote:

>The last piece I added to this stack is a parser that finds
>all your local assignments and puts them into the script if
>missing. This script also recognizes also the locals assigned 
>outside of the script's handlers and puts them on top of the 
>script to avoid some conflicts when locals are used before
>before the local assignment.
>

Outside as a nice defined and if possible optional component would be 
the optimal methinks?

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug 20 07:29:17 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:29:17 +0200
Subject: Links: QA forums
In-Reply-To: <20040820055242.89471.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEBFGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Some of you seemed interested in some testing,
quality, etc...

Here's just the site. And it's free!

http://www.qaforums.com

cheers
Xavier

From frank at backtalk.com  Fri Aug 20 08:19:32 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:19:32 +0100
Subject: Edit menu recipe?
Message-ID: <3137E639-F2A3-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Does anyone have an edit menu recipe they'd like to share?  I've got 
one that works for the main stack, but doesn't seem to work for other 
stacks.  I thought it was working at one point, but now I'm not sure 
whether it was ever working correctly.

Here's what I've got currently:

on DoMenuEditMenu theMenuItem
   switch (theMenuItem)
     --- Edit menu
   case "Undo"
     -- do nothing for now, not yet implemented
     break
   case "Cut"
     put the selectedChunk into curChunk
     if curChunk <> "" then
       put "put " & curChunk & " into theText" into theCmd
       do theCmd
       set the clipboardData["text"] to theText
       put "put empty into " & curChunk into theCmd
       do theCmd
     end if
     break
   case "Copy"
     put the selectedChunk into curChunk
     if curChunk <> "" then
       put "put " & curChunk & " into theText" into theCmd
       do theCmd
       set the clipboardData["text"] to theText
     end if
     break
   case "Paste"
     put the selectedChunk into curChunk
     put the clipboardData["text"] into pasteChunk

     put the focusedObject into theSelectedField
     if theSelectedField = "" then break
     put the short name of the focusedObject into fieldName

     if not fieldName contains "Description" then
       replace (numToChar(10) & numToChar(13)) with " " in pasteChunk
       replace numToChar(10) with " " in pasteChunk
       replace numToChar(13) with " " in pasteChunk
     end if

     put "put pasteChunk into " & curChunk into theCmd
     do theCmd
     put the selectedChunk into curSelection
     select curSelection
     break
   case "Clear"
     put the selectedChunk into curChunk
     if curChunk <> "" then
       put "put empty into " & curChunk into theCmd
       do theCmd
     end if
     break
   case "Select All"
     put the focusedObject into fieldName
     if word 1 of fieldName = "field" then
       put the short name of the focusedObject into shortFieldName
       put "select text of " & fieldName into theCmd
       do theCmd
     end if
     break
   default
     answer error "Error: forgot to handle '" & theMenuItem & "' in List 
of Albums menuPickEditMenu" titled getPhotoAlbumDialogName()
   end switch
end DoMenuEditMenu


Thanks,
-- Frank

Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 08:21:22 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:21:22 -0400
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <41257593.9030004@fourthworld.com>
References: <412569C2.9080604@fourthworld.com>
	<20A301C7-F258-11D8-8EC1-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
	<41257593.9030004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <728C8679-F2A3-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Richard's query about Applescript got me thinking about ways to use 
Applescripts in Rev code.  One thing that isn't clear to me, however, 
is whether if you execute an Applescript using:

do fld 1  as applescript

and that Applescript  returns a value, is there a way to capture that 
value and use it in other Revolution code?  If so, how would one send a 
value (or better yet a list of values) back from Applescript to Rev?

Thanks.

M


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Fri Aug 20 08:34:29 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:34:29 +0200
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <728C8679-F2A3-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <477E9A59-F2A5-11D8-9951-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>

I haven't too much experience with Applescript in Rev, but I can help 
in a simple script.
I use the following script to get the physical ram of the computer and 
I get the returned value into "the result" variable.

     do "get (system attribute " &quote& "ram " &quote& ") / 1048 div 
1000" as appleScript
     put the result into theRAM

Thierry

On Friday, Aug 20, 2004, at 14:21 Europe/Paris, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Richard's query about Applescript got me thinking about ways to use 
> Applescripts in Rev code.  One thing that isn't clear to me, however, 
> is whether if you execute an Applescript using:
>
> do fld 1  as applescript
>
> and that Applescript  returns a value, is there a way to capture that 
> value and use it in other Revolution code?  If so, how would one send 
> a value (or better yet a list of values) back from Applescript to Rev?
>
> Thanks.
>
> M
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 08:39:56 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:39:56 -0400
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <477E9A59-F2A5-11D8-9951-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>
References: <477E9A59-F2A5-11D8-9951-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <0A7D4C0E-F2A6-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Thanks. That's just the kind of thing I had in mind.

M
On Aug 20, 2004, at 8:34 AM, Thierry Arbellot wrote:

> I haven't too much experience with Applescript in Rev, but I can help 
> in a simple script.
> I use the following script to get the physical ram of the computer and 
> I get the returned value into "the result" variable.
>
>     do "get (system attribute " &quote& "ram " &quote& ") / 1048 div 
> 1000" as appleScript
>     put the result into theRAM
>
> Thierry
>
> On Friday, Aug 20, 2004, at 14:21 Europe/Paris, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> Richard's query about Applescript got me thinking about ways to use 
>> Applescripts in Rev code.  One thing that isn't clear to me, however, 
>> is whether if you execute an Applescript using:
>>
>> do fld 1  as applescript
>>
>> and that Applescript  returns a value, is there a way to capture that 
>> value and use it in other Revolution code?  If so, how would one send 
>> a value (or better yet a list of values) back from Applescript to 
>> Rev?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> M
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 09:05:28 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:05:28 -0400
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <477E9A59-F2A5-11D8-9951-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>
References: <477E9A59-F2A5-11D8-9951-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <9C167ACA-F2A9-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

When I implement Thierry's suggest exactly as written in a button 
script everything works fine.

on mouseup
   do "get (system attribute " &quote& "ram " &quote& ") / 1048 div 
1000" as appleScript
   put the result into theRAM
   put theRAM into fld 1

  --now see if I can manipulate the variable which was passed
   put theRAM/2 into halfRAM
   put halfRAM into line 2 of field 1
end mouseup


However, if I paste the very same command into field 2 and change the 
button script to read

on mouseup
   do fld 2 as appleScript
   put the result into theRAM
   put theRAM into fld 1
end mouseup

I now get a compiler error.  And this isn't simply a copy/paste error 
since I get the same error if I manually type:
             get (system attribute " &quote& "ram " &quote& ") / 1048 
div 1000
into field 2

Any one have thoughts as to why this should be happening?

Thanks.

Marian







On Aug 20, 2004, at 8:34 AM, Thierry Arbellot wrote:

> I haven't too much experience with Applescript in Rev, but I can help 
> in a simple script.
> I use the following script to get the physical ram of the computer and 
> I get the returned value into "the result" variable.
>
>     do "get (system attribute " &quote& "ram " &quote& ") / 1048 div 
> 1000" as appleScript
>     put the result into theRAM
>
> Thierry


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Fri Aug 20 09:27:04 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:27:04 -0400
Subject: Simulating password entry
Message-ID: <OF720347FD.37F3D6F9-ON85256EF6.0047574A@sealedair.com>

Devin,

Your final script is WONDERFUL! I only made a slight modification to make 
it more X-platform, On windows, ascii 165 looks kinda like a chicken 
footprint. Also, the default font apparently doesn't contain the bullet 
character on Win. I changed the font in the script, but of course that 
could be moved to preOpenStack so it only happens once. Anyways, here is 
what I changed/added.

switch (the platform)
  case "MacOS"
    put numtochar(165) after char eChar of me
    break
  case "Win32"
    set the textFont of me to "Arial Black"
    set the textSize of me to "12"
    put numtochar(149) after char eChar of me
    break
end switch

Kind regards,
Roger Eller  <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>

> Thanks to all who sent suggestions. Here's what I came up with (beware
> line wraps):
> 
> global passwd
> 
> on keydown whichKey
> put word 2 of the selectedChunk of me into sChar
> put word 4 of the selectedChunk of me into eChar
> if eChar > sChar then -- some text is selected
> delete char sChar to eChar of me
> delete char sChar to eChar of passwd
> end if
> put word 2 of the selectedChunk of me into sChar
> put word 4 of the selectedChunk of me into eChar
> put whichKey after char eChar of passwd
> put numtochar(165) after char eChar of me
> end keyDown
> 
> on backspaceKey
> put word 2 of the selectedChunk of me into sChar
> put word 4 of the selectedChunk of me into eChar
> if eChar > sChar then -- text is selected
> delete char sChar to eChar of me
> delete char sChar to eChar of passwd
> else
> delete char eChar of me
> delete char eChar of passwd
> end if
> end backspaceKey
> 
> on deleteKey
> put word 2 of the selectedChunk of me into sChar
> put word 4 of the selectedChunk of me into eChar
> if eChar > sChar then -- text is selected
> delete char sChar to eChar of me
> delete char sChar to eChar of passwd
> else
> delete char eChar of me
> delete char eChar of passwd
> end if
> end deleteKey
> 
> on returnInField
> click at the loc of btn "connect"
> end returnInField
> 
> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Fri Aug 20 09:46:01 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:46:01 +0200
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <9C167ACA-F2A9-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <45D40C77-F2AF-11D8-9951-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>

Marian,

you should remove the quotes if you put the script into a field
try like this:
get (system attribute "ram ") / 1048 div 1000

Thierry

On Friday, Aug 20, 2004, at 15:05 Europe/Paris, Marian Petrides wrote:

> When I implement Thierry's suggest exactly as written in a button 
> script everything works fine.
>
> on mouseup
>   do "get (system attribute " &quote& "ram " &quote& ") / 1048 div 
> 1000" as appleScript
>   put the result into theRAM
>   put theRAM into fld 1
>
>  --now see if I can manipulate the variable which was passed
>   put theRAM/2 into halfRAM
>   put halfRAM into line 2 of field 1
> end mouseup
>
>
> However, if I paste the very same command into field 2 and change the 
> button script to read
>
> on mouseup
>   do fld 2 as appleScript
>   put the result into theRAM
>   put theRAM into fld 1
> end mouseup
>
> I now get a compiler error.  And this isn't simply a copy/paste error 
> since I get the same error if I manually type:
>             get (system attribute " &quote& "ram " &quote& ") / 1048 
> div 1000
> into field 2
>
> Any one have thoughts as to why this should be happening?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Marian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 20, 2004, at 8:34 AM, Thierry Arbellot wrote:
>
>> I haven't too much experience with Applescript in Rev, but I can help 
>> in a simple script.
>> I use the following script to get the physical ram of the computer 
>> and I get the returned value into "the result" variable.
>>
>>     do "get (system attribute " &quote& "ram " &quote& ") / 1048 div 
>> 1000" as appleScript
>>     put the result into theRAM
>>
>> Thierry
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kevin at runrev.com  Fri Aug 20 09:50:39 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:50:39 +0100
Subject: Should I wait for 2.5 to be released?
In-Reply-To: <41258220.6080600@psystems.com.au>
Message-ID: <BD4BC03F.359B%kevin@runrev.com>

On 20/8/04 5:46 am, "Paul Arnott" <paul at psystems.com.au> wrote:

> I'm keen to get started with Rev, but am wondering whether I should wait
> for ver2.5 to be released. As I read it, a Rev license doesn't entitle
> you to any upgrades. I've had a look at 2.5 and it has some features I
> would like, such as SSL. My question is should I wait, or should I go
> with 2.2?

No need to wait, if you purchase now you will get a free upgrade to 2.5 when
it ships.  Put a note on your order if you want a 2.5 key with it now.  We
announced this when we first started testing beta 1 (though I don't think I
posted that information again since).

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 09:53:19 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:53:19 -0400
Subject: Should I wait for 2.5 to be released?
In-Reply-To: <BD4BC03F.359B%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BD4BC03F.359B%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4AC7325E-F2B0-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Can't beat that!

On Aug 20, 2004, at 9:50 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:

> On 20/8/04 5:46 am, "Paul Arnott" <paul at psystems.com.au> wrote:
>
>> I'm keen to get started with Rev, but am wondering whether I should 
>> wait
>> for ver2.5 to be released. As I read it, a Rev license doesn't entitle
>> you to any upgrades. I've had a look at 2.5 and it has some features I
>> would like, such as SSL. My question is should I wait, or should I go
>> with 2.2?
>
> No need to wait, if you purchase now you will get a free upgrade to 
> 2.5 when
> it ships.  Put a note on your order if you want a 2.5 key with it now. 
>  We
> announced this when we first started testing beta 1 (though I don't 
> think I
> posted that information again since).
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Aug 20 10:05:56 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:05:56 -0700
Subject: Edit menu recipe?
In-Reply-To: <3137E639-F2A3-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <3137E639-F2A3-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bd4bb55e9c5d@[66.52.165.124]>

>Does anyone have an edit menu recipe they'd like to share?

Hi Frank,

Following is the script of the Edit button from revMenubar.rev:

on menuPick which
   global gREVChunkStore, gREVUndoList
   switch which
   case "Undo"
     if gREVUndoList is not empty then
       if line -1 of gREVUndoList is "width" then
         delete last line of gREVUndoList
         repeat for each line l in gREVUndoList
           put item 1 to -2 of l into tObject
           if there is a tObject then set the width of tObject to item -1 of l
         end repeat
       else
         delete last line of gREVUndoList
         repeat for each line l in gREVUndoList
           put item 1 to -2 of l into tObject
           if there is a tObject then set the height of tObject to item -1 of l
         end repeat
       end if
       put empty into gREVUndoList
     else
       undo
     end if
     break
   case "Cut Object(s)"
   case "Cut Objects"
   case "Cut Card"
   case "Cut"
   case "Cut Text"
     if the selectedField is not empty and the lockText of the 
selectedField then
       exit to top
     end if
     if the selectedField is not empty then
       put true into tField
       put the long id of the selectedField into tFieldID
     end if
     if revCheckGroupDelete() then
       cut
     end if
     if tField then
       if char 1 to 18 of revTargetStack(tFieldID) is "REVPropertyPalette" then
         put revTargetStack(tFieldID) into tStackName
         if the short name of this cd of stack tStackName is not among 
the items of "revBasic,revScript,revCustom" then
           --work around the object delete / crash bug
           lock screen
           put the selectedChunk into tRestore
           set the traversalOn of fld "hidden text" of stack 
"revMenuBar" to true
           select text of fld "hidden text" of stack "revMenuBar"
           paste
           select text of fld "hidden text" of stack "revMenuBar"
           copy
           set the traversalOn of fld "hidden text" of stack 
"revMenuBar" to false
         end if
       end if
     end if
     revUpdatePalette
     exit to top
     break
   case "Copy Objects"
   case "Copy Object(s)"
   case "Copy Card"
   case "Copy"
   case "Copy Text"
     if the selectedField is not empty then
       copy
       if char 1 to 18 of revTargetStack(the long id of the 
selectedField) is "REVPropertyPalette" then
         put revTargetStack(the long id of the selectedField) into tStackName
         if the short name of this cd of stack tStackName is not among 
the items of "revBasic,revScript,revCustom" then
           --work around the object delete / crash bug
           lock screen
           put the selectedChunk into tRestore
           set the traversalOn of fld "hidden text" of stack 
"revMenuBar" to true
           select text of fld "hidden text" of stack "revMenuBar"
           paste
           select text of fld "hidden text" of stack "revMenuBar"
           copy
           set the traversalOn of fld "hidden text" of stack 
"revMenuBar" to false
           do "select" && tRestore && "of stack" && quote & tStackname & quote
         end if
       end if
     else if (the selObj) is not empty then
       copy
     end if
     revUpdatePalette
     exit to top
     break
   case "Paste"
   case "Paste Object(s)"
   case "Paste Objects"
   case "Paste Text"
     write "starting paste" & cr to file "output"
     write "clipboard:" && the clipboard & cr to file "output"
     write "the selectedChunk:" && (the selectedChunk) & cr to file "output"
     write "gREVChunkStore:" && gREVChunkStore & cr to file "output"
     if the clipBoard is "text" and (the selectedChunk) is empty and 
(gREVChunkStore) is not empty then
       try
         write "paste 1" & cr to file "output"
         select gREVChunkStore
         write "paste 2" & cr to file "output"
         paste
         write "paste 3" & cr to file "output"
         --if pasting into the script editor, enable the Revert/Apply buttons
         put (the focusedObject) into tFocusedObject
         write "paste 4" & cr to file "output"
         put word 5 to -1 of tFocusedObject into tOwnerCard
         write "paste 5" & cr to file "output"
         --check the Script field of the script editor is focused
         write "paste 6" & cr to file "output"
         if the name of tFocusedObject is "field" &&quote&"Script"&quote \
             and the name of tOwnerCard is "card" &&quote&"revScript"&quote
         then send "rawKeyUp" to tFocusedObject
         write "paste 7" & cr to file "output"
         exit menuPick
       catch someError
         beep
         write "paste 8" & cr to file "output"
       end try
       write "paste 9" & cr to file "output"
       exit menuPick
     end if
     lock messages
     write "paste B1" & cr to file "output"
     set the defaultStack to the topStack
     write "paste B2" & cr to file "output"
     paste
     write "paste B3" & cr to file "output"
     unlock messages
     write "paste B4" & cr to file "output"
     if the clipBoard is "objects" then send "selectedObjectChanged" 
to btn "revBackScript" of stack "revLibrary"
     --exit to top
     write "finishing paste" & cr to file "output"
     break
   case "Clear Objects"
   case "Clear Card"
   case "Clear"
   case "Clear Text"
     set the defaultStack to the topStack
     if the selectedField is not empty then if the lockText of the 
selectedField then exit to MetaCard
     if revCheckGroupDelete() then delete
     break
   case "Deselect All"
     select empty
     break
   case "Select All"
     if the mode of the topStack is not 1 and the selectedField is empty then
       beep
       exit menuPick
     end if
     if the selectedField is not empty then
       if the lockText of the selectedField then exit to MetaCard
       select text of the selectedField
     else
       if the cantModify of the topStack then
         answer "This stack can't be modified"
         exit to MetaCard
       end if
       lock screen
       lock messages
       set the defaultStack to the topStack
       repeat with i = 1 to the number of layers
         if the visible of control i or the showInvisibles then
           if the selectGroupedControls then
             if word 1 of the name of control i is not "group" then
               set the selected of control i to true
             end if
           else
             set the selected of control i to true
             add the number of layers in control i to i
           end if
         else
           add the number of layers in control i to i
         end if
       end repeat
       unlock screen
       unlock messages
       send "selectedObjectChanged" to btn "revBackScript" of stack "revLibrary"
     end if
     break
   case "Invert Selection"
     if the mode of the topStack is not 1 and the selectedField is empty then
       beep
       exit menuPick
     end if
     lock screen
     lock messages
     set the defaultStack to the topStack
     repeat with i = 1 to the number of controls
       if (the visible of control i or the showInvisibles) and (not 
the selectGroupedControls or (the selectGroupedControls and word 1 of 
the name of control i is not "group")) then
         set the selected of control i to not the selected of control i
       end if
       if not the selectGroupedControls then add the number of layers 
in control i to i
     end repeat
     unlock screen
     unlock messages
     send "selectedObjectChanged" to btn "revBackScript" of stack "revLibrary"
     break
   case "Duplicate"
     set the defaultStack to revTargetStack(line 1 of (the selobj))
     if the selObj is not empty then
       lock screen
       lock messages
       put the number of lines in (the selObj) into tRepeatfor
       repeat for each line l in the selObj
         clone l
         if the right of last control > the right of this cd or the 
bottom of last control > the bottom of this cd then set the topLeft 
of last control to 10,10
       end repeat
       select empty
       put the number of controls into tNumberOfControls
       put tNumberOfControls - tRepeatFor+1 into tRepeatFor
       repeat with i = tNumberOfControls down to tRepeatFor
         set the selected of control i to true
       end repeat
       unlock messages
       unlock screen
       send "selectedObjectChanged" to btn "revBackScript" of stack "revLibrary"
     end if
     break
   case "Duplicate Card"
     set the defaultStack to revTargetStack(line 1 of (the selobj))
     clone the selobj
     break
   case "Replicate..."
     modal "revReplicate"
     break
   case "Select Grouped Controls"
     set the selectGroupedControls to not (the selectGroupedControls)
     if the selectGroupedControls and word 1 of (the selObj) is 
"group" then select empty
     break
   case "Intersected Selections"
     if the selectionMode is "intersect" then
       set the selectionMode to "surround"
       unhilite menuItem 15 of menu "Edit"
     else
       set the selectionMode to "intersect"
       hilite menuItem 15 of menu "Edit"
     end if
     break
   case "Preferences"
     modeless "revPreferences"
     break
   case "Find and Replace..."
     modeless "revSearch"
     break
   end switch
end menuPick

-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 10:10:11 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:10:11 -0400
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <45D40C77-F2AF-11D8-9951-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>
References: <45D40C77-F2AF-11D8-9951-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <A654B6B6-F2B2-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Thanks, Thierry. I'm looking into this for a friend who is considering 
Rev and who does some Applescript. Unfortunately, I know no 
Applescript.

Other listers:  That fixed the problem with Thierry's sample but I am 
still having problem with more complex scripts. My friend sent me the 
following Applescript:

on run
	tell application "Palm Desktop"
		set numberOfMemos to count of memos
		set memoMemos to {}
		set loopIndex to 1
		
		-- find all Memo Pad Memos (memos with no attachments) and put them 
in memoMemos
		repeat numberOfMemos times
			set theMemo to item loopIndex of memos
			if (count of attachments of theMemo) is 0 then
				set end of memoMemos to theMemo
			end if
			set loopIndex to loopIndex + 1
		end repeat
	end tell
	
	return loopIndex
end run


What he would like is to be able to capture the value of loopIndex and 
then manipulate it using Rev.  And I am having trouble figuring out how 
to get loopIndex passed from Applescript to Rev.

I tried:

on mouseup

do fld 1 as applescript
put the result into fld 2

end mouseup

but all that gets me is "handler run" in field 2.

I also tried  put loopIndex into fld 2 but I didn't expect that to work 
and, of course, it didn't.

TIA

M



On Aug 20, 2004, at 9:46 AM, Thierry Arbellot wrote:

> Marian,
>
> you should remove the quotes if you put the script into a field
> try like this:
> get (system attribute "ram ") / 1048 div 1000
>
> Thierry


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Fri Aug 20 10:46:07 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:46:07 +0200
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <A654B6B6-F2B2-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AB9E4A6C-F2B7-11D8-9951-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>

Woaw, it becomes hard
I don't have the "Palm Desktop" app, then I can't test.

Anyway, let's try something (just an idea)
put the following line
get loopIndex
into the Applescript  just before the return.
I guess the get command put the variable (loopIndex) into the result

I hope it will work

Otherwise, you must have to learn Applescript ;-)
Here is the link to the online documentation:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/AppleScript/AppleScript.html

Thierry.

On Friday, Aug 20, 2004, at 16:10 Europe/Paris, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Thanks, Thierry. I'm looking into this for a friend who is considering 
> Rev and who does some Applescript. Unfortunately, I know no 
> Applescript.
>
> Other listers:  That fixed the problem with Thierry's sample but I am 
> still having problem with more complex scripts. My friend sent me the 
> following Applescript:
>
> on run
> 	tell application "Palm Desktop"
> 		set numberOfMemos to count of memos
> 		set memoMemos to {}
> 		set loopIndex to 1
> 		
> 		-- find all Memo Pad Memos (memos with no attachments) and put them 
> in memoMemos
> 		repeat numberOfMemos times
> 			set theMemo to item loopIndex of memos
> 			if (count of attachments of theMemo) is 0 then
> 				set end of memoMemos to theMemo
> 			end if
> 			set loopIndex to loopIndex + 1
> 		end repeat
> 	end tell

          get loopIndex

> 	return loopIndex
> end run
>
>
> What he would like is to be able to capture the value of loopIndex and 
> then manipulate it using Rev.  And I am having trouble figuring out 
> how to get loopIndex passed from Applescript to Rev.
>
> I tried:
>
> on mouseup
>
> do fld 1 as applescript
> put the result into fld 2
>
> end mouseup
>
> but all that gets me is "handler run" in field 2.
>
> I also tried  put loopIndex into fld 2 but I didn't expect that to 
> work and, of course, it didn't.
>
> TIA
>
> M
>
>
>
> On Aug 20, 2004, at 9:46 AM, Thierry Arbellot wrote:
>
>> Marian,
>>
>> you should remove the quotes if you put the script into a field
>> try like this:
>> get (system attribute "ram ") / 1048 div 1000
>>
>> Thierry
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Fri Aug 20 10:57:32 2004
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ludovic_Th=E9bault?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:57:32 +0200
Subject: Filter and regex
Message-ID: <20040820165732970401.GyazMail.ludovic.thebault@laposte.net>

Hello,

I want to filter a list by date. For example i want all lines which 
contains a date between 01/05/* to 07/05/*
I try this :

filter myList with "(01|07)/05/*"
filter myList with "((01)|(07))/05/*"
filter myList with "[01|07]/05/*"

but it doesn't seem to work.

Any idea ? thanks


Ludovic

From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 20 11:07:48 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:07:48 -0400
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <45D40C77-F2AF-11D8-9951-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>
References: <45D40C77-F2AF-11D8-9951-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <B30D0FF2-F2BA-11D8-8443-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 20, 2004, at 9:46 AM, Thierry Arbellot wrote:

> you should remove the quotes if you put the script into a field
> try like this:
> get (system attribute "ram ") / 1048 div 1000

Yes, I have to say, the AppleScript is fun. After Scott Rossi posted 
his iTunes app for review I got inspired, and created something I 
needed for my application. Now my "registered users" stack has a 
library stack which -

- creates an email to the selected user in Mail.app
- sets the subject
- adds the body based on template fields
- adds a specified signature
- chooses the proper "send from" account
- adds a file attachment

So one click of a button sends them an email, from the correct account, 
which includes their registration codes, default messages, a tech 
support vCard, etc. Of course, the entire process is pretty slow, 
comparatively. Takes probably a second. ;-)

Very cool and fun stuff.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug 20 11:32:28 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:32:28 -0500
Subject: Edit menu recipe?
In-Reply-To: <3137E639-F2A3-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <3137E639-F2A3-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <4126198C.4050605@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/20/04 7:19 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> Does anyone have an edit menu recipe they'd like to share?  I've got one 
> that works for the main stack, but doesn't seem to work for other 
> stacks. 

My Edit menus tend to be very simple most of the time, because the 
functionality I usually need is is already built in. It looks like all 
you are working with is text; if that is the case, then you don't need 
to do any more than this:

on menuPick which
   switch which
   case "Cut"
     cut
     break
   case "Copy"
     copy
     break
   case "Paste"
     paste
     break
   case "Undo"
     undo
     break
   case "select all"
     if the selectedField <> ""
     then select text of the selectedField
     break
   end switch
end menuPick

The engine automatically handles all the text operations. If you want to 
manage the editing of objects, then it gets more complicated. But not 
many apps need to do that, and it looks like all you need is text 
manipulation.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Aug 20 11:36:01 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:36:01 -0500
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <A654B6B6-F2B2-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BD4B8491.446C%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/20/04 9:10 AM, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:

> I tried:
> 
> on mouseup
> 
> do fld 1 as applescript
> put the result into fld 2
> 
> end mouseup
> 
> but all that gets me is "handler run" in field 2.

Marian, I think it is the "run" structure that is causing the problem. I
don't have Palm Desktop either, but if you try this:

    tell application "Palm Desktop"
        set numberOfMemos to count of memos
        set memoMemos to {}
        set loopIndex to 1
        
        -- find all Memo Pad Memos (memos with no attachments) and put them
in memoMemos
        repeat numberOfMemos times
            set theMemo to item loopIndex of memos
            if (count of attachments of theMemo) is 0 then
                set end of memoMemos to theMemo
            end if
            set loopIndex to loopIndex + 1
        end repeat
        return loopIndex
    end tell

It should probably work. Note that I moved the "return loopIndex" inside the
"tell" and removed the "run/end run" statements.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Aug 20 11:46:17 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:46:17 -0600
Subject: Simulating password entry
In-Reply-To: <OF720347FD.37F3D6F9-ON85256EF6.0047574A@sealedair.com>
References: <OF720347FD.37F3D6F9-ON85256EF6.0047574A@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <1321C931-F2C0-11D8-9C4F-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Good point, Roger. My little app is intended for Mac OS X only, so I 
overlooked that detail.

Devin

On Aug 20, 2004, at 7:27 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> Devin,
>
> Your final script is WONDERFUL! I only made a slight modification to 
> make
> it more X-platform, On windows, ascii 165 looks kinda like a chicken
> footprint. Also, the default font apparently doesn't contain the bullet
> character on Win. I changed the font in the script, but of course that
> could be moved to preOpenStack so it only happens once. Anyways, here 
> is
> what I changed/added.
>
> switch (the platform)
>   case "MacOS"
>     put numtochar(165) after char eChar of me
>     break
>   case "Win32"
>     set the textFont of me to "Arial Black"
>     set the textSize of me to "12"
>     put numtochar(149) after char eChar of me
>     break
> end switch
>
> Kind regards,
> Roger Eller  <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>
>
>> Thanks to all who sent suggestions. Here's what I came up with (beware
>> line wraps):
>>
>> global passwd
>>
>> on keydown whichKey
>> put word 2 of the selectedChunk of me into sChar
>> put word 4 of the selectedChunk of me into eChar
>> if eChar > sChar then -- some text is selected
>> delete char sChar to eChar of me
>> delete char sChar to eChar of passwd
>> end if
>> put word 2 of the selectedChunk of me into sChar
>> put word 4 of the selectedChunk of me into eChar
>> put whichKey after char eChar of passwd
>> put numtochar(165) after char eChar of me
>> end keyDown
>>
>> on backspaceKey
>> put word 2 of the selectedChunk of me into sChar
>> put word 4 of the selectedChunk of me into eChar
>> if eChar > sChar then -- text is selected
>> delete char sChar to eChar of me
>> delete char sChar to eChar of passwd
>> else
>> delete char eChar of me
>> delete char eChar of passwd
>> end if
>> end backspaceKey
>>
>> on deleteKey
>> put word 2 of the selectedChunk of me into sChar
>> put word 4 of the selectedChunk of me into eChar
>> if eChar > sChar then -- text is selected
>> delete char sChar to eChar of me
>> delete char sChar to eChar of passwd
>> else
>> delete char eChar of me
>> delete char eChar of passwd
>> end if
>> end deleteKey
>>
>> on returnInField
>> click at the loc of btn "connect"
>> end returnInField
>>
>> Devin Asay
>> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
>> Brigham Young University
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Fri Aug 20 12:01:04 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 12:01:04 EDT
Subject: Rev 2.5
Message-ID: <d4.1473d968.2e577a40@aol.com>

Has the underlying engine also been modified, or Rev only? If so, is there  a 
list of what has been modified?
 
/H

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Aug 20 12:04:42 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:04:42 -0700
Subject: Edit menu recipe?
In-Reply-To: <4126198C.4050605@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <3137E639-F2A3-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<4126198C.4050605@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4126211A.1090308@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 8/20/04 7:19 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:
> 
>> Does anyone have an edit menu recipe they'd like to share?  I've got 
>> one that works for the main stack, but doesn't seem to work for other 
>> stacks. 
> 
> 
> My Edit menus tend to be very simple most of the time, because the 
> functionality I usually need is is already built in. It looks like all 
> you are working with is text; if that is the case, then you don't need 
> to do any more than this:
> 
> on menuPick which
>   switch which
>   case "Cut"
>     cut
>     break
>   case "Copy"
>     copy
>     break
>   case "Paste"
>     paste
>     break
>   case "Undo"
>     undo
>     break
>   case "select all"
>     if the selectedField <> ""
>     then select text of the selectedField
>     break
>   end switch
> end menuPick
> 
> The engine automatically handles all the text operations. If you want to 
> manage the editing of objects, then it gets more complicated. But not 
> many apps need to do that, and it looks like all you need is text 
> manipulation.

The built-in cut, copy, paste, and undo commands also work for most 
pointer tool operations (i.e., working with selected objects).

If one's picky about minimizing typing, because most of those are 
handled by the engine you can use the case block's fall-through feature 
to trim the code -- this version also handles "Select All" for objects:

on menuPick which
    switch which
    case "Cut"
    case "Copy"
    case "Paste"
    case "Undo"
      do which
      break
    case "select all"
      if the selectedField <> "" then
        select text of the selectedField
      else if "pointer" is in the tool then
        lock screen
        set the defaultStack to the topStack
        repeat with i = 1 to the number of layers
          if the visible of control i or the showInvisibles
          then set the selected of control i to true
          add the number of layers in control i to i
        end repeat
        unlock screen
      end if
      break
    end switch
end menuPick


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 12:05:08 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 12:05:08 -0400
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <BD4B8491.446C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD4B8491.446C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <B4FF3DAA-F2C2-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Ken
Alas pasting the revised applescript into fld 1 and then clicking the 
button with that same mouseup handler still doesn't pass a value to the 
result --just results in a compiler error.  If I change the put 
statement in the mouseup handler to put loopIndex into fld 2  it does 
literally what it was told to do--displays the word loopIndex.

Thanks for trying!

Troy:
  Is your registered users stack available someplace. It sounds like you 
are using it to do things similar to what my friend is interested in 
doing (he wants to retrieve text from memos in Palm Desktop), so maybe 
the answer he needs is there.

Thanks.

Marian


On Aug 20, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 8/20/04 9:10 AM, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I tried:
>>
>> on mouseup
>>
>> do fld 1 as applescript
>> put the result into fld 2
>>
>> end mouseup
>>
>> but all that gets me is "handler run" in field 2.
>
> Marian, I think it is the "run" structure that is causing the problem. 
> I
> don't have Palm Desktop either, but if you try this:
>
>     tell application "Palm Desktop"
>         set numberOfMemos to count of memos
>         set memoMemos to {}
>         set loopIndex to 1
>
>         -- find all Memo Pad Memos (memos with no attachments) and put 
> them
> in memoMemos
>         repeat numberOfMemos times
>             set theMemo to item loopIndex of memos
>             if (count of attachments of theMemo) is 0 then
>                 set end of memoMemos to theMemo
>             end if
>             set loopIndex to loopIndex + 1
>         end repeat
>         return loopIndex
>     end tell
>
> It should probably work. Note that I moved the "return loopIndex" 
> inside the
> "tell" and removed the "run/end run" statements.
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Aug 20 12:11:57 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:11:57 -0700
Subject: Rev 2.5
In-Reply-To: <d4.1473d968.2e577a40@aol.com>
References: <d4.1473d968.2e577a40@aol.com>
Message-ID: <412622CD.7030402@fourthworld.com>

FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:

> Has the underlying engine also been modified, or Rev only? If so, is there  a 
> list of what has been modified?

The Whats_New.txt file included in the package summarizes the changes. 
While it doesn't differentiate between engine and UI, as a general rule 
any command or function that begins with "rev" is part of the IDE's 
libraries, and all the rest are in the engine.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 20 12:35:36 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 12:35:36 -0400
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <B4FF3DAA-F2C2-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <BD4B8491.446C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<B4FF3DAA-F2C2-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F70880BD-F2C6-11D8-91D0-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 20, 2004, at 12:05 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

>  Is your registered users stack available someplace. It sounds like 
> you are using it to do things similar to what my friend is interested 
> in doing (he wants to retrieve text from memos in Palm Desktop), so 
> maybe the answer he needs is there.

Not yet, but I'm considering making it into a submission for the new 
RevOnline. I started it with all the intentions of generalization and 
encapsulation in the world, but as it progressed, it became just 
slightly proprietary ( a couple of things that should be variables or 
external references are "hard" coded, etc.)

My project is mostly one which sends information out to the other 
program, it sounds like your friend wants to pull it in. FWIW, I did a 
bunch of testing in the process of building my stack, and I didn't find 
much problem with retrieving data from external sources.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Aug 20 12:58:21 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:58:21 -0700
Subject: Filter and regex
In-Reply-To: <20040820165732970401.GyazMail.ludovic.thebault@laposte.net>
References: <20040820165732970401.GyazMail.ludovic.thebault@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <1752815788.20040820095821@ahsoftware.net>

Ludovic-

Friday, August 20, 2004, 7:57:32 AM, you wrote:

LT> Hello,

LT> I want to filter a list by date. For example i want all lines which
LT> contains a date between 01/05/* to 07/05/*

Well, if that's what you really want, then this does the trick:

0[1-7]/05/*

but note that that will give you "January through July of any year" or
"05 January through 05 July of any year", depending on the local date
system. If what you really want is "January through July of 2005" then
this is what you want:

/0?[1-7]/05

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 13:06:19 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:06:19 -0400
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <F70880BD-F2C6-11D8-91D0-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <BD4B8491.446C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<B4FF3DAA-F2C2-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<F70880BD-F2C6-11D8-91D0-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <412A7FA2-F2CB-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

 >>>FWIW, I did a bunch of testing in the process of building my stack, 
and I didn't find much problem with retrieving data from external 
sources.

I think I'm just having trouble figuring out what the syntax would be 
on the sending (applescript) end and the receiving (rev) side.

I'll keep an eye out for your stack in RevOnline if it shows up there. 
Thanks.

M

On Aug 20, 2004, at 12:35 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 20, 2004, at 12:05 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>>  Is your registered users stack available someplace. It sounds like 
>> you are using it to do things similar to what my friend is interested 
>> in doing (he wants to retrieve text from memos in Palm Desktop), so 
>> maybe the answer he needs is there.
>
> Not yet, but I'm considering making it into a submission for the new 
> RevOnline. I started it with all the intentions of generalization and 
> encapsulation in the world, but as it progressed, it became just 
> slightly proprietary ( a couple of things that should be variables or 
> external references are "hard" coded, etc.)
>
> My project is mostly one which sends information out to the other 
> program, it sounds like your friend wants to pull it in. FWIW, I did a 
> bunch of testing in the process of building my stack, and I didn't 
> find much problem with retrieving data from external sources.
>
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Fri Aug 20 13:15:55 2004
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ludovic_Th=E9bault?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:15:55 +0200
Subject: Filter and regex
In-Reply-To: <1752815788.20040820095821@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20040820165732970401.GyazMail.ludovic.thebault@laposte.net>
 <1752815788.20040820095821@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <20040820191555043495.GyazMail.ludovic.thebault@laposte.net>

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:58:21 -0700, Mark Wieder wrote:
> Well, if that's what you really want, then this does the trick:
> 
> 0[1-7]/05/*

Thanks, but it's more difficult. I'm on french system, also the date 
format is DD/MM/YY.
I want to found for example all datas of the first week of a month, or 
the second week, the third week..

For the first week, your script work fine but for the rest.. i've tried 
(to find datas from 8 may to 14 may)
((0[8-9])|(1[0-4]))/05/* but it doesn't work. 

PS : This regex works with BBedit (without *).

Ludovic

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 13:27:08 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:27:08 -0700
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <9257AEE8-E27F-11D8-840B-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <29AC248C-F2CE-11D8-9A00-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>

Hi,

I finally found what I was looking for in the basic core for all my  
pull-parser needs. With the help of those at Run Rev this was found:

This is exactly what I've been searching for all this time. It goes to  
the heart of a speedy
solution for creating high speed custom parsers. This could be useful  
to everyone for all
kinds of high speed searching not just parsers.

Please vote for this:
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/ 
show_bug.cgi?id=1926

On Wednesday, August 18, 2004, at 03:10 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:

> The one of most interest is the Boyer-Moore algorithm as this is  
> reputed
> to be the fastest.
>
> So, one idea is to implement a function:
>   matchGlobal(stringToSearch, token)
> returning a list of all indices in stringToSearch of token.
>
> e.g.
>   get matchGlobal("<a>foo</a><a>bar</a><a>baz</a>", "<a>")
> would give
>   it[1] = 1
>   it[2] = 10
>   it[3] = 20

Thanks,

Mark


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug 20 13:54:37 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:54:37 +0200
Subject: Filter and regex
In-Reply-To: <20040820191555043495.GyazMail.ludovic.thebault@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEBNGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


set itemdelimiter to "/" -- or the french liberty item delimiter ;)
put "1/5/2004" into adate
-- find first monday
repeat while word 1 of thisdate is not "monday" --(or sunday
  put adate into thisdate
  add 1 to item 1 of adate -- assume french date
  convert thisdate to the long date
end repeat
-- end of find first monday...
get item 2 of adate
-- we found our day, let's calculate the week
add (myweeknumber-1) * 7 to it
put it into item 1 of adate -- this is the first day of any week.

--now you can replace
.*(0*[myday])/(0*[mymonth])/.*

-- You'll have to find the right syntax that works with RR
   i feel better when I dont mess with grep's nasty syntax
-- I put 0* in the grep code in case there is or not a 0
   before a day/month less than 10.
-- put in the last "/" in the grep but not the year unless 
   you need to check the year. This way you're sure you have 
   a date and not force the engine to search for more than 
   what's required.

bon weekend!
Xa

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Ludovic
> Thebault
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 19:16
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Filter and regex
> 
> 
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:58:21 -0700, Mark Wieder wrote:
> > Well, if that's what you really want, then this does the trick:
> > 
> > 0[1-7]/05/*
> 
> Thanks, but it's more difficult. I'm on french system, also the date 
> format is DD/MM/YY.
> I want to found for example all datas of the first week of a month, or 
> the second week, the third week..
> 
> For the first week, your script work fine but for the rest.. i've tried 
> (to find datas from 8 may to 14 may)
> ((0[8-9])|(1[0-4]))/05/* but it doesn't work. 
> 
> PS : This regex works with BBedit (without *).
> 
> Ludovic
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Aug 20 14:06:04 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:06:04 -0500
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <B4FF3DAA-F2C2-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BD4BA7BC.44A9%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/20/04 11:05 AM, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:

>     tell application "Palm Desktop"
>>         set numberOfMemos to count of memos
>>         set memoMemos to {}
>>         set loopIndex to 1
>> 
>>         -- find all Memo Pad Memos (memos with no attachments) and put
>> them
>> in memoMemos
>>         repeat numberOfMemos times
>>             set theMemo to item loopIndex of memos
>>             if (count of attachments of theMemo) is 0 then
>>                 set end of memoMemos to theMemo
>>             end if
>>             set loopIndex to loopIndex + 1
>>         end repeat
>>         return loopIndex
>>     end tell

Marian, I got Palm Desktop and tried the code in Script Editor and got an
access error in trying to access the memo with "item loopIndex of memos".
When I changed the code to this:

tell application "Palm Desktop"
    set numberOfMemos to count of memos
    set memoMemos to {}
    set loopIndex to 1
    
    -- find all Memo Pad Memos (memos with no attachments) and put them in
memoMemos
    repeat with x from 1 to numberOfMemos
        set theMemo to memo x
        if (count of attachments of theMemo) is 0 then
            set end of memoMemos to theMemo
        end if
        set loopIndex to loopIndex + 1
    end repeat
    return loopIndex
end tell

It worked in Script Editor. I then tried it by pasting it into a Rev field
and did "do fld 1 as applescript;put the result" and it came back with the
same number.

Try it on your end...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From katir at hindu.org  Fri Aug 20 14:52:13 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:52:13 -1000
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
Message-ID: <0CC92958-F2DA-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

I'm coming to a point where it's imperative that we see how things look 
on Windows machines. Up to now have just been "winging it." But that 
won't do in the long run.

Question: Is Virtual PC on the Mac a reliable representation of the 
user experience on a real PC running Windows?

Obviously there can be underlying hardware issues that Virtual PC 
cannot address, but for now just the presentation, font sizes, etc. is 
what i am looking for and, aside from rev presentations:  viewing web 
pages in IE5-6 on Windows... to see if the CSS is rendering as 
expected...

Does Virtual PC really do a good enough job? Or do I need to 
requisition a cheap Dell running windows 2000. The "lo-end" Windows 
user experience would be the target.

Which leads to the next question, should we test under 2000  or XP?


Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Fri Aug 20 15:02:51 2004
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:02:51 -0400
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <0CC92958-F2DA-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <OFEAFB868D.A85098B2-ON85256EF6.0067C6A5-85256EF6.0068B17F@sealedair.com>

> Or do I need to requisition a cheap Dell running windows 2000.

I would recommend getting an inexpensive Windows PC like the Dell.
I am a die-hard Mac-guy, but I would still rather buy an actual 
Windows PC for development testing.  Even if I was running the best 
virtual PC app, I would always have that voice in the back of
my mind wondering, "Yeah, but how will it run on actual PC 
hardware?"

That's my 2.18403 JPY....James





Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
08/20/04 02:52 PM
Please respond to How to use Revolution
 
        To:     use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC


I'm coming to a point where it's imperative that we see how things look
on Windows machines. Up to now have just been "winging it." But that
won't do in the long run.

Question: Is Virtual PC on the Mac a reliable representation of the
user experience on a real PC running Windows?

Obviously there can be underlying hardware issues that Virtual PC
cannot address, but for now just the presentation, font sizes, etc. is
what i am looking for and, aside from rev presentations:  viewing web
pages in IE5-6 on Windows... to see if the CSS is rendering as
expected...

Does Virtual PC really do a good enough job? Or do I need to
requisition a cheap Dell running windows 2000. The "lo-end" Windows
user experience would be the target.

Which leads to the next question, should we test under 2000  or XP?


Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Fri Aug 20 15:10:48 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:10:48 -0400
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <0CC92958-F2DA-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <BD4BC4F8.29F0%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

Virtual PC is probably fine but a cheap windows box cost less than Virtual
PC (without monitor - you can use an existing monitor with a switch). The
other advantage is the windoz machine can run stuff off the network without
tying up your real working machine that you are coding on. But why wouldn't
you shoot for the Windoz XP market as that is what they all have. And Windoz
XP is a very close copy of the Mac GUI. No one uses Windoz 2000 anymore as
it crashes when you look at it. I have two of those cheap boxes. One I just
use to play movies (I'd rather use a Mac for that but $450 for a Windoz box
or $2000 for a Mac -- where is the choice?).


On 8/20/04 2:52 PM, "Sannyasin Sivakatirswami" <katir at hindu.org> wrote:

> I'm coming to a point where it's imperative that we see how things look
> on Windows machines. Up to now have just been "winging it." But that
> won't do in the long run.
> 
> Question: Is Virtual PC on the Mac a reliable representation of the
> user experience on a real PC running Windows?
> 
> Obviously there can be underlying hardware issues that Virtual PC
> cannot address, but for now just the presentation, font sizes, etc. is
> what i am looking for and, aside from rev presentations:  viewing web
> pages in IE5-6 on Windows... to see if the CSS is rendering as
> expected...
> 
> Does Virtual PC really do a good enough job? Or do I need to
> requisition a cheap Dell running windows 2000. The "lo-end" Windows
> user experience would be the target.
> 
> Which leads to the next question, should we test under 2000  or XP?
> 
> 
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
> Himalayan Academy Publications
> at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
> katir at hindu.org
> 
> www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
> www.HinduismToday.com
> www.Gurudeva.org
> www.Hindu.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Aug 20 15:09:46 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 12:09:46 -0700
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <OFEAFB868D.A85098B2-ON85256EF6.0067C6A5-85256EF6.0068B17F@sealedair.com>
References: <OFEAFB868D.A85098B2-ON85256EF6.0067C6A5-85256EF6.0068B17F@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <8041330C-F2DC-11D8-8B41-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

While there are few if any real differences between a real PC and 
Virtual PC from the perspective of how an app looks and feels, 
particularly since MS now owns VPC, there are three good reasons to buy 
an inexpensive Windows box for this testing:

1. VPC runs like a dog. Responsiveness is absolutely impossible to test 
in that environment.

2. There is some crossover functionality between VPC Windows and Mac OS 
X that involve sharing of some resources. Those could become gotchas in 
an app that makes use of things like printers, network connections, 
etc.

3. Did I mention how slooooooooooow VPC is? :-D


On Aug 20, 2004, at 12:02 PM, James.Cass at sealedair.com wrote:

>> Or do I need to requisition a cheap Dell running windows 2000.
>
> I would recommend getting an inexpensive Windows PC like the Dell.
> I am a die-hard Mac-guy, but I would still rather buy an actual
> Windows PC for development testing.  Even if I was running the best
> virtual PC app, I would always have that voice in the back of
> my mind wondering, "Yeah, but how will it run on actual PC
> hardware?"
>
> That's my 2.18403 JPY....James
>
>
>
>
>
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org>
> Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> 08/20/04 02:52 PM
> Please respond to How to use Revolution
>
>         To:     use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>         cc:
>         Subject:        OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
>
>
> I'm coming to a point where it's imperative that we see how things look
> on Windows machines. Up to now have just been "winging it." But that
> won't do in the long run.
>
> Question: Is Virtual PC on the Mac a reliable representation of the
> user experience on a real PC running Windows?
>
> Obviously there can be underlying hardware issues that Virtual PC
> cannot address, but for now just the presentation, font sizes, etc. is
> what i am looking for and, aside from rev presentations:  viewing web
> pages in IE5-6 on Windows... to see if the CSS is rendering as
> expected...
>
> Does Virtual PC really do a good enough job? Or do I need to
> requisition a cheap Dell running windows 2000. The "lo-end" Windows
> user experience would be the target.
>
> Which leads to the next question, should we test under 2000  or XP?
>
>
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
> Himalayan Academy Publications
> at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
> katir at hindu.org
>
> www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
> www.HinduismToday.com
> www.Gurudeva.org
> www.Hindu.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Aug 20 15:15:55 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:15:55 -0600
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <0CC92958-F2DA-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <0CC92958-F2DA-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <5C50E4D2-F2DD-11D8-9360-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 20, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Does Virtual PC really do a good enough job? Or do I need to 
> requisition a cheap Dell running windows 2000. The "lo-end" Windows 
> user experience would be the target.

For checking it out, Virtual PC is good.  It can be slow on Mac.  The 
plus of slow is that it exposes some silly gui and graphics things you 
might be doing.  The minus of slow is that it may not be sufficient to 
get the feel of a user's interaction.

A used computer with an OS can be cheap.  The greater cost might 
finding a place to set it up.  And lugging in a monitor.

If you need to test on lots of Windows platforms, I'd consider a good 
PC with XP Pro and then Virtual PC for Windows with several operating 
systems.  If this qualifies (and I think it would), you might get most 
or all the software you need with the right msdn level.

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 15:16:55 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:16:55 -0400
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <8041330C-F2DC-11D8-8B41-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: 	<OFEAFB868D.A85098B2-ON85256EF6.0067C6A5-85256EF6.0068B17F@sealedair.com>
	<8041330C-F2DC-11D8-8B41-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <800F6932-F2DD-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

No, I don't think you mentioned how absolutely, pathetically, 
ridiculously slow VPC is. ;-))))

Besides a cheap low-end WinTel box (the one I use to test low end 
configurations is a P2, 300 mHz laptop running Win98)  is probably not 
a whole lot more than what VPC would cost.

M
On Aug 20, 2004, at 3:09 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> 3. Did I mention how slooooooooooow VPC is? :-D


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Aug 20 15:27:16 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:27:16 -0600
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <0CC92958-F2DA-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <0CC92958-F2DA-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <F1E1A8D4-F2DE-11D8-9360-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 20, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
> Question: Is Virtual PC on the Mac a reliable representation of the 
> user experience on a real PC running Windows?

BTW, speaking of options.  I was at the Microsoft site the other day 
and saw a remote desktop client that ran on OS X.  I was busy looking 
for something else, so I didn't look at it, but it might be useful in 
testing.

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Fri Aug 20 15:29:31 2004
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ludovic_Th=E9bault?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:29:31 +0200
Subject: Filter and regex
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEBNGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEBNGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <20040820212931960843.GyazMail.ludovic.thebault@laposte.net>

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:54:37 +0200, MisterX wrote:

> You'll have to find the right syntax that works with RR
>    i feel better when I dont mess with grep's nasty syntax

Thanks, but these is not yet the right script ! ( i doesn't want the 
real week -- Monday to sunday) but only the day 1 to day 7, ...
Finally, i use this script, which work :

for first "week" (day 1 to 7):
filter myList with "*0[1-7]/05/*"

for second week (day 8 to 14):
put mylist into mylist2
filter myList with "*0[8-9]/05/*"
filter myList2 with "*1[0-4]/05/*"
put mylist&cr&mylist2 into mylist

...

Ludovic

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 15:35:12 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:35:12 -0400
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <BD4BA7BC.44A9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD4BA7BC.44A9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <0DE9D093-F2E0-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Ken,

Works great on my end, too. (although the number of memos returned is 
one more than the number Palm Desktop thinks are there--but I'm sure 
that's a function of an error in the AppleScript--I suspect in the line 
that increments the counter)

So now we know it CAN be done. Thanks so much everyone.  You guys are 
great--not only do you help with Rev scripts, you debug other people's 
AppleScripts!  Amazing!

Thanks again, everyone,

Marian




> Marian, I got Palm Desktop and tried the code in Script Editor and got 
> an
> access error in trying to access the memo with "item loopIndex of 
> memos".
> When I changed the code to this:
>
> tell application "Palm Desktop"
>     set numberOfMemos to count of memos
>     set memoMemos to {}
>     set loopIndex to 1
>
>     -- find all Memo Pad Memos (memos with no attachments) and put 
> them in
> memoMemos
>     repeat with x from 1 to numberOfMemos
>         set theMemo to memo x
>         if (count of attachments of theMemo) is 0 then
>             set end of memoMemos to theMemo
>         end if
>         set loopIndex to loopIndex + 1
>     end repeat
>     return loopIndex
> end tell
>
> It worked in Script Editor. I then tried it by pasting it into a Rev 
> field
> and did "do fld 1 as applescript;put the result" and it came back with 
> the
> same number.
>
> Try it on your end...
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Fri Aug 20 15:34:24 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:34:24 -0400
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
Message-ID: <OF23EA7D48.3CE350F1-ON85256EF6.006B2F84@sealedair.com>

> No, I don't think you mentioned how absolutely,
> pathetically, ridiculously slow VPC is. ;-))))

Yeah, I'd rather eat a cup of boogers collected from the attendees of the 
EuroRevDevCon on Fear Factor!!!!!

-- Sorry 'bout the mental image people. --

~Roger


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Aug 20 16:05:07 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 22:05:07 +0200
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <5C50E4D2-F2DD-11D8-9360-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGECAGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

A couple of points:

Dont get xp home edition to develop.

Try the XP theme, quit RR then try the W98/2000 theme. 
Dont use BMPs for images (last lesson learned from Pie Control)

To try different versions of RR (and or themes), 
just create different users in XP. 

Just remember not to use the same files across 2 different
RR applications or use the same RR app by two users at the
same time - unless you like trouble...

And with RR, you dont need MS software, you just write your
own office anyway dont you? ;) 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dar Scott
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 21:16
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 20, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
> 
> > Does Virtual PC really do a good enough job? Or do I need to 
> > requisition a cheap Dell running windows 2000. The "lo-end" Windows 
> > user experience would be the target.
> 
> For checking it out, Virtual PC is good.  It can be slow on Mac.  The 
> plus of slow is that it exposes some silly gui and graphics things you 
> might be doing.  The minus of slow is that it may not be sufficient to 
> get the feel of a user's interaction.
> 
> A used computer with an OS can be cheap.  The greater cost might 
> finding a place to set it up.  And lugging in a monitor.
> 
> If you need to test on lots of Windows platforms, I'd consider a good 
> PC with XP Pro and then Virtual PC for Windows with several operating 
> systems.  If this qualifies (and I think it would), you might get most 
> or all the software you need with the right msdn level.
> 
> Dar
> ****************************************
>      Dar Scott Consulting
>      http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
>      Programming Services
> ****************************************
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 20 15:20:03 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:20:03 -0400
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <0CC92958-F2DA-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <0CC92958-F2DA-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <EFEE55E2-F2DD-11D8-808A-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 20, 2004, at 2:52 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Question: Is Virtual PC on the Mac a reliable representation of the 
> user experience on a real PC running Windows?

 From a look and feel perspective it is, yes. From a performance level, 
no, of course not. If you have a very powerful Mac, performance becomes 
pretty acceptable... probably figure about half the MHz of your Mac.

>
> Obviously there can be underlying hardware issues that Virtual PC 
> cannot address, but for now just the presentation, font sizes, etc. is 
> what i am looking for and, aside from rev presentations:  viewing web 
> pages in IE5-6 on Windows... to see if the CSS is rendering as 
> expected...

It is fine for that. The interface is actually being generated by 
Windows, not Mac. Again, rendering performance will not be accurately 
reflected, but the final render will.

>
> Does Virtual PC really do a good enough job? Or do I need to 
> requisition a cheap Dell running windows 2000. The "lo-end" Windows 
> user experience would be the target.

I do both. During development I get in my "test early, test often" 
stuff on VPC. Toward the end of a cycle, I usually move the stuff onto 
an actual - especially if performance is an issue... (see the running 
theme here?  ;-)

>
> Which leads to the next question, should we test under 2000  or XP?

That really is one of the beauties of VPC. I maintain a system with 
each, all stored on a single external Firewire drive. Once one of them 
freaks out, grabs a virus, whatever, I just drag a clean and setup copy 
off my archives (it is one file for the whole installed OS with apps 
in) and I'm ready to go again. I also have 2 different Linux 
installations the same way.

There really is no full replacement for having an actual PC, but you 
can indeed do most of your testing in VPC, and for many types of apps, 
even get all the way through shipping based on it. VPC is the only PC 
I've ever owned which hasn't given me fits of rage. (And I used to do 
everything exclusively on PC.)

A tip if you start using VPC - render performance is MUCH improved if 
you set your monitor, or one of them if you have a dual monitor setup, 
to having VPC full-screen, rather than in a window. Probably doubles 
the display updates.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Aug 20 16:26:56 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 22:26:56 +0200
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <800F6932-F2DD-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: 	<OFEAFB868D.A85098B2-ON85256EF6.0067C6A5-85256EF6.0068B17F@sealedair.com>
	<8041330C-F2DC-11D8-8B41-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<800F6932-F2DD-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <48228818-F2E7-11D8-9526-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 20 ao?t 04, ? 21:16, Marian Petrides a ?crit :

> No, I don't think you mentioned how absolutely, pathetically, 
> ridiculously slow VPC is. ;-))))

In my remind, Virtual PC 2 was, in 1997 and under a G3 266, running 
Win95 faster than VirtualPC 6 is running Win2000 Pro under my actual 
PWB G4 1 Ghz with 1 Go of RAM... Just a toy, only able to start 
anything today and finish it next month, if the weather... ;)
>
> Besides a cheap low-end WinTel box (the one I use to test low end 
> configurations is a P2, 300 mHz laptop running Win98)  is probably not 
> a whole lot more than what VPC would cost.
>
> M
> On Aug 20, 2004, at 3:09 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> 3. Did I mention how slooooooooooow VPC is? :-D
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
--
That's all for yet, Friends, Kind Regards, Pierre


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 16:31:06 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:31:06 -0400
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGECAGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGECAGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <DCBBA632-F2E7-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

What is the problem using XP Home Edition for development?

I develop on Mac, then port, tweak and test the WinTel version on a 
laptop running XP Home Ed.  I haven't had any problems, but my exposure 
to XP Home is inherently minimal.

M

On Aug 20, 2004, at 4:05 PM, MisterX wrote:

> Dont get xp home edition to develop.


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Aug 20 17:14:24 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:14:24 -0500
Subject: Send variables back to Rev from Applescript
In-Reply-To: <0DE9D093-F2E0-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BD4BD3E0.44D4%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/20/04 2:35 PM, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Ken,
> 
> Works great on my end, too. (although the number of memos returned is
> one more than the number Palm Desktop thinks are there--but I'm sure
> that's a function of an error in the AppleScript--I suspect in the line
> that increments the counter)

Yes, it's the line counter... personally I don't understand why the
loopIndex is used when you can just return 'numberOfMemos', but that's me...

> So now we know it CAN be done. Thanks so much everyone.  You guys are
> great--not only do you help with Rev scripts, you debug other people's
> AppleScripts!  Amazing!

We aim's to please... ;-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug 20 17:25:40 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:25:40 -0500
Subject: Edit menu recipe?
In-Reply-To: <4126211A.1090308@fourthworld.com>
References: <3137E639-F2A3-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<4126198C.4050605@hyperactivesw.com> <4126211A.1090308@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <41266C54.7080900@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/20/04 11:04 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> If one's picky about minimizing typing, because most of those are 
> handled by the engine you can use the case block's fall-through feature 
> to trim the code -- this version also handles "Select All" for objects:
> 
> on menuPick which
>    switch which
>    case "Cut"
>    case "Copy"
>    case "Paste"
>    case "Undo"
>      do which

Picky purist point: using "do" forces the compiler to run and can slow 
the script, which is why I use the redundant form.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 20 18:05:32 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:05:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <41257F4B.2030209@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <20040820220532.77981.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
wrote:

> create a lookup table that
>  has pairs of time stamps
> and graphics. You'd have to 
> do each piece of music individually, which is
> the tedious part. You'd 
> note the place in the music where each graphic
> needs to change and store 
> a table where the first number is the time in
> the movie and the second 
> is the graphics number, something like this:
> 
> 0,1
> 155,2
> 423,3
> 
> and so forth. Then create a handler that sends
> itself a message every 
> few milliseconds. The handler would check the
> currentTime of the movie 
> and if it matches an entry in the table, it
> sets the dancer to the 
> graphic indicated by the second item in the
> line.
> 
> local myTable -- contains the numbers list
> 
> on andale
>   get the currentTime of player "myMusic"
>   put lineoffset(cr&it,cr&myTable) into
> theMatch
>   if theMatch > 0 then
>     setDancers (item 2 of line theMatch of
> cr&myTable)
>   end if
>   send "andale" to me in 100 milliseconds
> end andale
> 
> The carriage returns are to make sure that only
> numbers at the 
> beginnings of the lines match. The above is
> untested, so you may need to 
> tweak it. You'd also have to write something
> that stops the messaging 
> when the player stops.

well, the first part is working!
the loc, icon, vis are stored.

> Alternately, you could try the Shakobox for
> Windows file that Judy 
> posted. The link still works and I was able to
> grab the file, haven't had time to test it yet.

thanks, i will get going on all of the above.

Erik Hansen



=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
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Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
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From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Aug 20 18:25:09 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:25:09 -0400
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <0CC92958-F2DA-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <0CC92958-F2DA-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <CB644DCE-F2F7-11D8-9904-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I finished my second very large media project in Rev in MacOSX and the 
PC side was checked only in Virtual PC (Windows XP and Windows 2000). 
So far I have not had any responses about issues or problems.

So far it works for me.


Tom


On Aug 20, 2004, at 2:52 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> I'm coming to a point where it's imperative that we see how things 
> look on Windows machines. Up to now have just been "winging it." But 
> that won't do in the long run.
>
> Question: Is Virtual PC on the Mac a reliable representation of the 
> user experience on a real PC running Windows?
>
> Obviously there can be underlying hardware issues that Virtual PC 
> cannot address, but for now just the presentation, font sizes, etc. is 
> what i am looking for and, aside from rev presentations:  viewing web 
> pages in IE5-6 on Windows... to see if the CSS is rendering as 
> expected...
>
> Does Virtual PC really do a good enough job? Or do I need to 
> requisition a cheap Dell running windows 2000. The "lo-end" Windows 
> user experience would be the target.
>
> Which leads to the next question, should we test under 2000  or XP?
>
>
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
> Himalayan Academy Publications
> at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
> katir at hindu.org
>
> www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
> www.HinduismToday.com
> www.Gurudeva.org
> www.Hindu.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Aug 20 18:46:49 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:46:49 +0100
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <29AC248C-F2CE-11D8-9A00-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <9257AEE8-E27F-11D8-840B-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040820231830.00b07db8@mail.tweedly.net>

At 10:27 20/08/2004 -0700, Mark Brownell wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I finally found what I was looking for in the basic core for all my
>pull-parser needs. With the help of those at Run Rev this was found:

Sorry Mark, I'm going to have to ask for another lesson :-)

How does this proposal help with a pull-parser ?

This looks (simply) like a scheme to do fast searching for multiple 
occurrences of a string; could give a significant speed gain over repeated 
calls to offset, if only because the B-M setup time can be done once rather 
than each call (or each call with caching), as well as the speed gain from 
a single call versus multiple calls.

But this seems less useful than your earlier
    split by string1 to string2
proposal, which would (more obviously) allow incremental parsing.


Not that that means it wouldn't be a useful high-speed parsing technique - 
I just don't see how it could be used to create a pull-parser.

>On Wednesday, August 18, 2004, at 03:10 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:
>
>>The one of most interest is the Boyer-Moore algorithm as this is
>>reputed
>>to be the fastest.
>>
>>So, one idea is to implement a function:
>>   matchGlobal(stringToSearch, token)
>>returning a list of all indices in stringToSearch of token.
>>
>>e.g.
>>   get matchGlobal("<a>foo</a><a>bar</a><a>baz</a>", "<a>")
>>would give
>>   it[1] = 1
>>   it[2] = 10
>>   it[3] = 20

-- Alex.

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 20 18:39:36 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:39:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <41257F4B.2030209@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <20040820223936.13323.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
wrote:
 < jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu>
  wrote:

> I was able to grab the file, haven't tested it
yet.

HyperTalk scripted notation
using QuickTime Musical Instruments.

http://www.angelfire.com/d20/jrdesktop/misc/playcmdwin.zip

It includes the application and the Read Me file.

One way is from the command line:

PlayCmdAgent quit
PlayCmdAgent play musicbox 100 eq cq eq qr eq cq
eq
PlayCmdAgent playstr musicbox eq cq eq qr eq cq
eq tempo 100
PlayCmdAgent playnote musicbox 60 127

The syntax is:

PlayCmdAgent quit
PlayCmdAgent play <instrument> <tempo> <notes>
PlayCmdAgent playstr <string>
PlayCmdAgent playnote <instrument> <pitch>
<velocity>

The other way is to write one of these commands
to a text file in
C:\WINDOWS\ called PLAYCMD.EVT. As soon as the
file is readable and
nonempty, the command will be picked up and the
file will be deleted
automatically.

BIf you have any questions, please send them to
jonrelay
PLAYCOMMAND AGENT FOR WINDOWS

========

Instrument = name|number.
Pitch: middle C = 60
Velocity = volume, from 1 to 127.

To stop a note started with playnote,
call playnote again with the same instrument
and pitch but a velocity of 0.
For best results, use only single spaces 
between parameters.

======

so we are still dependent on Quicktime,
so be it.

the Velocity (Volume) parameter does not exist
in HyperTalk, that's a QT specific activation?

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
_______________________________
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Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
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From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 20 19:42:07 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:42:07 -0700
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040820231830.00b07db8@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <8C32F7F0-F302-11D8-985B-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Friday, August 20, 2004, at 03:46 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> At 10:27 20/08/2004 -0700, Mark Brownell wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I finally found what I was looking for in the basic core for all my
>> pull-parser needs. With the help of those at Run Rev this was found:
>
> Sorry Mark, I'm going to have to ask for another lesson :-)
>
> How does this proposal help with a pull-parser ?

It replaces the need to run a loop to find all instances of a tag. If 
you control the schema type of the XML and write it so that pulling the 
information makes the pull-parser design optimal then you have a simple 
fast solution. If you need to validate then use a standard XML parser. 
So adding to the example:

  get matchGlobal("<a>foo</a><a>bar</a><a>baz</a>", "<a>") would give
   it[1] = 1
   it[2] = 10
   it[3] = 20

get matchGlobal("<a>foo</a><a>bar</a><a>baz</a>", "</a>") would give
   it[1] = 7
   it[2] = 17
   it[3] = 27

so I would use:
put get matchGlobal(myString", "<a>") into startTagArray
put get matchGlobal(myString", "</a>") into endTagArray
put char ( startTagArray[1] +3) to (endTagArray[1] - 1) of mystring 
into A1-1
put char ( startTagArray[2] +3) to (endTagArray[2] - 1) of mystring 
into A2-1
put char ( startTagArray[3] +3) to (endTagArray[3] - 1) of mystring 
into A3-1

My XML example uses 3 instances of "<a>" tag-sets for each instance of 
"<task>".

So if I were to encapsulate these three previous sets into multiple 
sets with another tag-set I could create an array of "<task>" sets.

So this:
"<task><a>foo1</a><a>bar1</a><a>baz1</a></task>"
"<task><a>foo2</a><a>bar2</a><a>baz2</a></task>"
"<task><a>foo3</a><a>bar3</a><a>baz3</a></task>"
"<task><a>foo4</a><a>bar4</a><a>baz4</a></task>"

put get matchGlobal(myString", "<task>") into startTagArray
put get matchGlobal(myString", "</task>") into endTagArray

So I have the start points and end points for each respective 
occurrence of a tag-sets, "<task>".

All I have to do is use them to populate an array. (the old tried and 
true way that is)

Now this matchGlobal( ) function is starting to get faster than using 
an array because you have to loop through the array and this thing can 
drop that loop step. You know how offset() has the ability to start the 
next search after a certain point. Well you could use this 
matchGlobal() function to find the resultant contents of an "<a>" set  
that matched your search and then build a pulled array from the 
numerical numbers that were just below in the startTagArray[?] and just 
above in the endTagArray[?] for each instance found of "<a>" that fits.

example:
  itS[1] = 1
   itS[2] = 10
   itS[3] = 20

   itE[1] = 7
   itE[2] = 17
   itE[3] = 27

If the one I like is at  char 14 so I build the data from char (itS[2] 
+ 3) to (itE[2] - 1)

All I need is a quick way to loop once through the itS[] and itE[] 
arrays to get the ones that I want. I should be able to do this in one 
pass through the arrays. I might add that I'm now not storing my data 
in an "<task>" data array. MyString is now the permanent container of 
data and subject to high speed   changes using the replace function. If 
I can control the XML schema then I can make this pull technique negate 
the use of databases and just use the data in the XML state. I can't 
wait to test the results on MTML were currently pages are stored in 
each numerical key of an array receptively {1], [2], [3]. etc...


> This looks (simply) like a scheme to do fast searching for multiple 
> occurrences of a string; could give a significant speed gain over 
> repeated calls to offset, if only because the B-M setup time can be 
> done once rather than each call (or each call with caching), as well 
> as the speed gain from a single call versus multiple calls.

That's what I think also.

> But this seems less useful than your earlier
>    split by string1 to string2
> proposal, which would (more obviously) allow incremental parsing.

This "split by string1 to string2" idea put it into an array. I think 
that matchGlobal() might be faster if the loop through that "split by" 
array is eliminated.

I could use a form of repeat that exits after my target is greater than 
the last result of looping through the matchGlobal( ) arrays. Anyway I 
would search for the fastest repeat technique to get the start and end 
points I was interested in.

It all means less arrays and less trips through arrays using repeat 
loops.

> Not that that means it wouldn't be a useful high-speed parsing 
> technique - I just don't see how it could be used to create a 
> pull-parser.-- Alex.

HTH,

Mark


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Aug 20 20:31:41 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 17:31:41 -0700
Subject: Edit menu recipe?
In-Reply-To: <41266C54.7080900@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <3137E639-F2A3-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<4126198C.4050605@hyperactivesw.com> <4126211A.1090308@fourthworld.com>
	<41266C54.7080900@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <412697ED.7070900@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 8/20/04 11:04 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> If one's picky about minimizing typing, because most of those are 
>> handled by the engine you can use the case block's fall-through 
>> feature to trim the code -- this version also handles "Select All" for 
>> objects:
>>
>> on menuPick which
>>    switch which
>>    case "Cut"
>>    case "Copy"
>>    case "Paste"
>>    case "Undo"
>>      do which
> 
> 
> Picky purist point: using "do" forces the compiler to run and can slow 
> the script, which is why I use the redundant form.

Yes, in older, slower xTalks one might get a noticeable difference 
between "do" and the natural message path.

But it's a whole other world with Transcript -- this script tests timing 
of both the natural message path and the "do" command:

-------------------------
on mouseUp
   put 1000 into n
   -- test 1: natural message flow
   put the millisecs into s
   repeat n
     DoSomething
   end repeat
   put the millisecs - s into s1
   --
   -- test 2: do:
   put the millisecs into s
   repeat n
     do "SomethingElse"
   end repeat
   put the millisecs - s into s2
   --
   put "Natural: "& (s1/n) &"ms/iteration    Do: "&(s2/n)&"ms/iteration"
end mouseUp

on DoSomething
   get 1+1
end DoSomething

on SomethingElse
   get 1+1
end SomethingElse
--------------------------

When I run it on my PBG4 1GH I get:

   Natural: 0.013ms/iteration    Do: 0.016ms/iteration

So yes, using the do command is slower, but only by about 0.003ms.

Given that the menu script is responding to a user action and no user 
will be faster than 0.003ms, there's no perceptable savings to the 
system's performance, but using do can offer immediate savings for 
developer productivity.

While curmudgeonly, there is a practical point here:

With Transcript you can often make choices that put your productivity as 
a developer over concerns about "fast" or "slow".  Those terms are 
relative, and as we've seen with accessing custom properties vs. globals 
the actual differences are often very small, imperceptable at even 
10,000 iterations or more.

When in doubt benchmark, and consider whether the script in question 
will be responding to a direct user action....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From katir at hindu.org  Fri Aug 20 21:10:35 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:10:35 -1000
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <CB644DCE-F2F7-11D8-9904-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <0CC92958-F2DA-11D8-9155-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<CB644DCE-F2F7-11D8-9904-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <E7CF1A24-F30E-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Thanks for everyone's input.  As always, many ways to describe an 
elephant..

Our Apple repair-lady was here today. She said "Forget VPC, you will 
not only waste time but destabilize your whole system if you plan to do 
anything else on that machine."

But, I would be running VPC on OSX G4 dual-processor desktop model, (in 
another room) to upgraded to a G5 soon... so I think the speed will be 
acceptable.

But productivity can be an issue... fiddling with VPC, vs having a 
little DEL sitting on the corner of my own desk, plugged into the 
network would mean instant review. If  you are trying to wrap something 
up in 2 hours... it could mean a lot.

I'll see for now if I can live with VPC and also see if budgets will 
allow for a PC box...

Thanks
Sivakatirswami



On Aug 20, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> I finished my second very large media project in Rev in MacOSX and the 
> PC side was checked only in Virtual PC (Windows XP and Windows 2000). 
> So far I have not had any responses about issues or problems.
>
> So far it works for me.
>
>
> Tom
>
>
> On Aug 20, 2004, at 2:52 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>> I'm coming to a point where it's imperative that we see how things 
>> look on Windows machines. Up to now have just been "winging it." But 
>> that won't do in the long run.
>>
>> Question: Is Virtual PC on the Mac a reliable representation of the 
>> user experience on a real PC running Windows?
>>
>> Obviously there can be underlying hardware issues that Virtual PC 
>> cannot address, but for now just the presentation, font sizes, etc. 
>> is what i am looking for and, aside from rev presentations:  viewing 
>> web pages in IE5-6 on Windows... to see if the CSS is rendering as 
>> expected...
>>
>> Does Virtual PC really do a good enough job? Or do I need to 
>> requisition a cheap Dell running windows 2000. The "lo-end" Windows 
>> user experience would be the target.
>>
>> Which leads to the next question, should we test under 2000  or XP?
>>
>>
>> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
>> Himalayan Academy Publications
>> at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
>> katir at hindu.org
>>
>> www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
>> www.HinduismToday.com
>> www.Gurudeva.org
>> www.Hindu.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kkaufman at snet.net  Sat Aug 21 00:08:35 2004
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 00:08:35 -0400
Subject: "live" event capture and MIDI
Message-ID: <C5F081FB-F327-11D8-8FF0-0003937052EC@snet.net>

Many years ago I tried, using SuperCard, to create a realtime recording 
device, i.e. set a metronomic pulse and trap for mouseclicks in 
relation to that pulse.  If I remember correctly the problem lay in the 
runtime's response to the mouseclicks, which would throw off the timing 
of the pulse.
Perhaps the Rev engine is fast enough to deal with both.  Then again, 
maybe I was completely wrong in how I attempted to use the SC runtime 
and the same problems would apply, more or less, to Revolution.

I imagine that dedicated MIDI applications are optimized to run the two 
threads (do I use that word correctly here?) simultaneously.  Perhaps 
this is an area where a set of external functions written to the OS 
directly would be of great benefit.  In other words, the input of live 
MIDI data would require the receiving MIDI app to be able to recognize 
the parts of the MIDI data being streamed- including the timing pulse 
(clock).


From mdswindell at charter.net  Sat Aug 21 00:30:17 2004
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:30:17 -0700
Subject: OT Web Tutorial Suggestions?
Message-ID: <CE1B2066-F32A-11D8-B260-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>

I'm not a beginner at site building and static page development, but I 
am a complete novice at anything interactive, Perl, databases, etc.  I 
need to have a page that will take a button with multiple items on it, 
and depending on which one is chosen, go to another page and place a 
corresponding SKU into a field to be used for paying a percentage of a 
sale to the account of the "partner" that was chosen on the original 
button.  Does that make sense?  Each button item will have a 
corresponding SKU, and that will be a "partner" that gets a cut of a 
sale.

Anyway, can anyone recommend a web-based or other tutorial that will 
teach me how to do this type of thing, or is this something that 
Revolution can do for me behind the scenes?  As I say, I'm truly 
clueless how to make this (and other things of the sort) happen 
remotely, but I'd like to learn.  Referrals to the appropriate learning 
tools would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug 21 00:37:46 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:37:46 -0700
Subject: OT Web Tutorial Suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <CE1B2066-F32A-11D8-B260-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
References: <CE1B2066-F32A-11D8-B260-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
Message-ID: <D95D1BB9-F32B-11D8-BD6D-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

For this kind of thing, I wouldn't take the time to roll your own. Most 
good shopping carts (e.g., 1ShoppingCart.com) can handle affiliate 
payments pretty automatically for you, even down to two or more levels.

Dan

On Aug 20, 2004, at 9:30 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:

> I'm not a beginner at site building and static page development, but I 
> am a complete novice at anything interactive, Perl, databases, etc.  I 
> need to have a page that will take a button with multiple items on it, 
> and depending on which one is chosen, go to another page and place a 
> corresponding SKU into a field to be used for paying a percentage of a 
> sale to the account of the "partner" that was chosen on the original 
> button.  Does that make sense?  Each button item will have a 
> corresponding SKU, and that will be a "partner" that gets a cut of a 
> sale.
>
> Anyway, can anyone recommend a web-based or other tutorial that will 
> teach me how to do this type of thing, or is this something that 
> Revolution can do for me behind the scenes?  As I say, I'm truly 
> clueless how to make this (and other things of the sort) happen 
> remotely, but I'd like to learn.  Referrals to the appropriate 
> learning tools would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug 21 02:06:48 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 08:06:48 +0200
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <E7CF1A24-F30E-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMECEGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


> Our Apple repair-lady was here today. She said "Forget VPC, you will 
> not only waste time but destabilize your whole system if you plan to do 
> anything else on that machine."

Change the apple tech, that's 100% goblediguck...

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug 21 02:16:51 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 08:16:51 +0200
Subject: OT Web Tutorial Suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <CE1B2066-F32A-11D8-B260-000A95A6A8DA@charter.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGECFGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

http://www.navaching.com/pagem.html

has setup an examples... Naturally the button will have to be made
in an html form... You need to learn how web forms work with POST,
GET or PUT to submit the info to your cgi and that's it...

Making your first experience in this will be a great tutorial that
no one can do for you as Dan said...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Mark
> Swindell
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 06:30
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: OT Web Tutorial Suggestions?
> 
> 
> I'm not a beginner at site building and static page development, but I 
> am a complete novice at anything interactive, Perl, databases, etc.  I 
> need to have a page that will take a button with multiple items on it, 
> and depending on which one is chosen, go to another page and place a 
> corresponding SKU into a field to be used for paying a percentage of a 
> sale to the account of the "partner" that was chosen on the original 
> button.  Does that make sense?  Each button item will have a 
> corresponding SKU, and that will be a "partner" that gets a cut of a 
> sale.
> 
> Anyway, can anyone recommend a web-based or other tutorial that will 
> teach me how to do this type of thing, or is this something that 
> Revolution can do for me behind the scenes?  As I say, I'm truly 
> clueless how to make this (and other things of the sort) happen 
> remotely, but I'd like to learn.  Referrals to the appropriate learning 
> tools would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Sat Aug 21 03:31:53 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 03:31:53 EDT
Subject: No one uses W2k (was OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC)
Message-ID: <7d.564f8fa9.2e585469@aol.com>

Er... 'scuse me...

"No one uses Windoz 2000 anymore as it crashes  when you look at it."

- I use Win2k as the primary development machine,  and review on XP and Mac. 
I have found it very stable indeed, I think two  crashes in the past year and 
both my fault.



"But why wouldn't you  shoot for the Windoz XP market as that is what they 
all have."

-  Something of an overstatement, although XP is prevalent. Download webstats 
here  over the past six month period show a 53:47 split Mac:Windows with 
these  platform proportions...

Mac OS
17% (31% of Macs)

Mac OSX
36%  (69% of Macs)

Windows 2000
13% (27% of Win32)

Windows 95
2%  (4% of Win32)

Windows 98
8% (18% of Win32)

Windows XP
24%  (51% of Win32)


/H

Hugh Senior
The Flexible Learning Company
Web:  www.FlexibleLearning.com
E: h at flexiblelearning.com
 

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug 21 04:57:24 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:57:24 +0200
Subject: No one uses W2k (was OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC)
In-Reply-To: <7d.564f8fa9.2e585469@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCECIGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


> "No one uses Windoz 2000 anymore as it crashes  when you look at it."

This must come from that Apple techy that said installing VPC on your 
mac would make things unstable...

W2000 has been the best system (client or server) i've seen coming from 
MS until W2k3... XP is just 2000 with themes and a few more enhancements
DRM, license keys, hardware locking, and all that mostly restricting
crap...

As far as crashes, Windows 2000 crashes only if you dont know what
you install on it (or how to install it because you didn't read the
readme). Usually a problem between the chair and the keyboard. I've 
used W2K for years and have not seen a system as stable. W2K3 is better, 
bigger, hoggier and should be more stable but requires at least a 2Mhz 
cpu and 512 MB of RAM to be on the safe side... W2K runs on 24MBs of ram, 
has all the drivers, and is fast even on a p3... 

W2K is no longuer sold but given XP or W2K3 restrictions/requirements
it remains my system of choice. 

Of my 3 PCs, most have an uptime in terms of months and they are very
over-over loaded! And believe me when I say they do some heavy 
processing - primes searching, a full fruityloops producer edition, 
the mule, email, sql, php, ftp, video and audio editing from my dreambox, 
etc... 


From toncardona at mac.com  Sat Aug 21 06:14:18 2004
From: toncardona at mac.com (Ton Cardona)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:14:18 +0200
Subject: Disabled buttons appearance
Message-ID: <DD17F808-F35A-11D8-BAA6-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>

?Is there a way of controlling the appearance (colors, shadows etc) of 
disabled buttons?

Thanks in advance

Ton Cardona

From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Sat Aug 21 06:38:25 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:38:25 +0200
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <20040821055918.16426930108@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040821055918.16426930108@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3B1D93D2-F35E-11D8-A502-003065CC999E@pi.be>


On 21 Aug 2004, at 07:59, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 22:26:56 +0200
> From: Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr>
> Subject: Re: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <48228818-F2E7-11D8-9526-000A95C61E96 at easynet.fr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> Le 20 ao?t 04, ? 21:16, Marian Petrides a ?crit :
>
>> No, I don't think you mentioned how absolutely, pathetically,
>> ridiculously slow VPC is. ;-))))
>
> In my remind, Virtual PC 2 was, in 1997 and under a G3 266, running
> Win95 faster than VirtualPC 6 is running Win2000 Pro under my actual
> PWB G4 1 Ghz with 1 Go of RAM... Just a toy, only able to start
> anything today and finish it next month, if the weather... ;)
>>
>> Besides a cheap low-end WinTel box (the one I use to test low end
>> configurations is a P2, 300 mHz laptop running Win98)  is probably not
>> a whole lot more than what VPC would cost.
>>
>> M
>> On Aug 20, 2004, at 3:09 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>>
>>> 3. Did I mention how slooooooooooow VPC is? :-D
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>

But if you read links like this one, may be something will come up 
after the release of the new Xbox.

http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,61065,00.html

M$ bought VPC and  they killed Real PC.
They are going to use the powerpc chipset in their new Xbox.
And .... they are going to use VPC as emulator.....

"Microsoft will use the Virtual PC technology it acquired from 
Connectix last year to provide backward-compatibility with the current 
generation of Xbox games."

If the speedbump for VPC in the Xbox is also ported to the VPC for the 
mac, may be VPC will become really useful.
(If M$ is not going to release this technology may be geeks will 
extract it from the Xbox ;-)

Dreaming on...
WA


From frank at backtalk.com  Sat Aug 21 06:50:15 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 11:50:15 +0100
Subject: Edit menu recipe? 
In-Reply-To: <20040820160003.9023B9300E6@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040820160003.9023B9300E6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <E2A4597E-F35F-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

On Aug 20, 2004, at 5:00 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: Edit menu recipe?
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <4126198C.4050605 at hyperactivesw.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> On 8/20/04 7:19 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have an edit menu recipe they'd like to share?  I've got 
>> one
>> that works for the main stack, but doesn't seem to work for other
>> stacks.
>
> My Edit menus tend to be very simple most of the time, because the
> functionality I usually need is is already built in. It looks like all
> you are working with is text; if that is the case, then you don't need
> to do any more than this:
>
> on menuPick which
>    switch which
>    case "Cut"
>      cut
>      break
>    case "Copy"
>      copy
>      break
>    case "Paste"
>      paste
>      break
>    case "Undo"
>      undo
>      break
>    case "select all"
>      if the selectedField <> ""
>      then select text of the selectedField
>      break
>    end switch
> end menuPick
>
> The engine automatically handles all the text operations. If you want 
> to
> manage the editing of objects, then it gets more complicated. But not
> many apps need to do that, and it looks like all you need is text
> manipulation.
>

Jacqueline and Rob,

Many thanks for the suggestions.  I tried yours Jacqueline, and while 
it came close, I had problems with paste in particular where the 
selection point after the paste was in the wrong place (it was before 
the pasted data instead of after it).  Not sure why that was, I gave up 
and re-rolled my own.

The other thing that's interesting is that "the selectedChunk" was 
reporting the wrong field number for me (it would return field 21 when 
it should have been field 12 or field 14).  I don't know if this is a 
known bug, or whether it's just because of something I'm doing, but I 
had to use the first part of the selectedChunk -- "char 1 to 2 of" -- 
and then append "the focusedObject" to get the correct selectedChunk 
value.  Weird but true.

Anyway, it's all working now...thanks again.

-- Frank


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Sat Aug 21 06:59:43 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:59:43 +0200
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
Message-ID: <352C9804-F361-11D8-A502-003065CC999E@pi.be>

And look at this link:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14407

"The big news to us is that the XBOX 2 SDK has been seeded to 
developers on dual Apple Power Mac G5 systems running a custom Windows 
NT Kernel."

Hardware based or native Virtual PC (may be windows will become even 
faster on the mac than on real pc's)

Still dreaming on...
WA


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Sat Aug 21 07:52:03 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 07:52:03 -0400
Subject: No one uses W2k (was OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC)
In-Reply-To: <7d.564f8fa9.2e585469@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD4CAFA3.2A39%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>



Wow - that is so different from the web statistics on my server. I have
never seed that many Macs! I see 3% Mac OS and 90% Windows XP with linux and
other as the rest.

Do you have a lot of access from France? I understand that there are a lot
of Macs there as well as in Australia.


On 8/21/04 3:31 AM, "FlexibleLearning at aol.com" <FlexibleLearning at aol.com>
wrote:

> Mac OS
> 17% (31% of Macs)
> 
> Mac OSX
> 36%  (69% of Macs)
> 
> Windows 2000
> 13% (27% of Win32)
> 
> Windows 95
> 2%  (4% of Win32)
> 
> Windows 98
> 8% (18% of Win32)
> 
> Windows XP
> 24%  (51% of Win32)
> 

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Aug 21 08:17:25 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 14:17:25 +0200
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <3B1D93D2-F35E-11D8-A502-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <20040821055918.16426930108@mail.runrev.com>
	<3B1D93D2-F35E-11D8-A502-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <0FC6D4B4-F36C-11D8-9FB3-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 21 ao?t 04, ? 12:38, Wouter a ?crit :

Interesting..., even if M$ is so much often like the weather ;-)

>
> But if you read links like this one, may be something will come up 
> after the release of the new Xbox.
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,61065,00.html
>
> M$ bought VPC and  they killed Real PC.
> They are going to use the powerpc chipset in their new Xbox.
> And .... they are going to use VPC as emulator.....
>
> "Microsoft will use the Virtual PC technology it acquired from 
> Connectix last year to provide backward-compatibility with the current 
> generation of Xbox games."
>
> If the speedbump for VPC in the Xbox is also ported to the VPC for the 
> mac, may be VPC will become really useful.
> (If M$ is not going to release this technology may be geeks will 
> extract it from the Xbox ;-)
>
> Dreaming on...
> WA
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug 21 10:08:28 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 16:08:28 +0200
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <3B1D93D2-F35E-11D8-A502-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAECKGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


> M$ bought VPC and  they killed Real PC.
> They are going to use the powerpc chipset in their new Xbox.
> And .... they are going to use VPC as emulator.....

Sounds like Steve Jobs and PowerComputing to me ;)
Besides, VPC compared to VMWare is like a toy car compared to
a real car. HP sells VPC as a virtual server now if this puts
you in the picture. We use it a work to validate clusters and
run experimental system installs. But vmware doesn't work on
macs unfortunately.

> "Microsoft will use the Virtual PC technology it acquired from 
> Connectix last year to provide backward-compatibility with the current 
> generation of Xbox games."

MAME will do that too surely ;)

> If the speedbump for VPC in the Xbox is also ported to the VPC for the 
> mac, may be VPC will become really useful.
> (If M$ is not going to release this technology may be geeks will 
> extract it from the Xbox ;-)

Doubtful since an xbox uses an intel chipset and doesn't need to do
any instruction translations for the PPC...

> Dreaming on...

as you say!

From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sat Aug 21 10:21:11 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:21:11 -0400
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
Message-ID: <OF043EA105.4FEABF9A-ON85256EF7.004D5B3E@sealedair.com>

> Besides, VPC compared to VMWare is like a toy car compared to
> a real car. HP sells VPC as a virtual server now if this puts
> you in the picture. We use it a work to validate clusters and
> run experimental system installs. But vmware doesn't work on
> macs unfortunately.

If you primarily develop for x-plat on a Mac, I would say that having 
VMware running on an additional x86 box would give you an excellent 
testing area for multiple Rev supported operating systems. With VMware, 
you can have multiple OS' running simultaneously, including various 
flavors of Linux and WinXP, Win2K, WinMe, NT, bla bla bla. Basically 
anything that was designed for X86 hardware. I have used VMware from 
within Linux to run Windows Me, and there was practically no drop in 
performance compared to booting directly into a native x86 OS. Of course 
because you are running them simultaneously, you do have to share system 
resources.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 21 10:31:00 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 07:31:00 -0700
Subject: simple libSMTP send example, help
In-Reply-To: <8C32F7F0-F302-11D8-985B-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B96BE441-F37E-11D8-A4A2-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>

Hi,

I'm trying to get  libSMTP to work for a basic simple email send.

If I use this to add the libraries with the stacks added to my main 
stack already:

on openStack
   start using stack "libEmail"
   start using stack "libSmtp"
end openStack

on closeStack
   stop using stack "libEmail"
   stop using stack "libSmtp"
end closeStack

Then I need a few lines of code to send email to this destination:
send "ABCDEFG test" to "gizmotron at earthlink.net" with subject "test 
send"

or
body = "ABCDEFG test"
destination = "gizmotron at earthlink.net"
subject  = "test send"

I'm searching for a simple example of using libSmtp to send a plain 
text email. I can't get the example to work from Shoe Sean's website 
example. I think it is because I'm not sure how to use adding 
destinations and saving and/or selecting them during a send. Anyway it 
crashes on an HTMLtext handler. I'm using Rev 2.2 on Mac OSX. Does 
anyone have a basic email stack or example of code using these 
libraries that sends a single email without it being something that 
looks like it came from the source code of a full blown email client?

Having it report that the email was successfully sent looks like it is 
part of the lib also.

Thanks,

Mark


From myoung at ieee.org  Sat Aug 21 11:19:46 2004
From: myoung at ieee.org (Michael Young)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 09:19:46 -0600
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <20040821055906.41B99930100@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040821055906.41B99930100@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8967951D-F385-11D8-8EBC-000D932BD416@ieee.org>

Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Thanks for everyone's input.  As always, many ways to describe an
> elephant..
>
> Our Apple repair-lady was here today. She said "Forget VPC, you will
> not only waste time but destabilize your whole system if you plan to do
> anything else on that machine."
>
> But, I would be running VPC on OSX G4 dual-processor desktop model, (in
> another room) to upgraded to a G5 soon... so I think the speed will be
> acceptable.
>
> But productivity can be an issue... fiddling with VPC, vs having a
> little DEL sitting on the corner of my own desk, plugged into the
> network would mean instant review. If  you are trying to wrap something
> up in 2 hours... it could mean a lot.
>
> I'll see for now if I can live with VPC and also see if budgets will
> allow for a PC box...
>
> Thanks
> Sivakatirswami
>

Remember VPC for Mac will not run on G5 yet and this VPC for Mac will  
be the first new version put out under the Microsoft label, rather than  
Connectix. So who knows if Microsoft will do a good job on this  
version.

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/using.aspx? 
pid=usingvirtualpc
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/virtualpc.aspx? 
pid=comingsoon

The online tech literature I have read says the VPC 7 for Mac delay is  
because Microsoft wanted to get XP SP2 out the door. If you have been  
following that story you know hot fixes for SP2 are already coming out.  
I don't see how that can help get VPC 7 for Mac out any sooner. Sigh.

VPC on a modern Mac is slower than all but an ancient PC. Duh. :)  
However my wife used VPC 3, 5 and then 6 on a Power Mac (Sawtooth  
version) 400 MHz machine with 1 GB RAM for a couple of years to run  
Windows 95, 98 and then 2000 primarily so that she could run several  
different versions of Windows only Microsoft Money, which is a standard  
consumer application. Performance was acceptable. She never had a  
glitch from VPC. Things worked like they would on a real PC. She and I  
were satisfied.

HTH,

Michael Y


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Aug 21 11:44:42 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 08:44:42 -0700
Subject: Edit menu recipe?
In-Reply-To: <E2A4597E-F35F-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <20040820160003.9023B9300E6@mail.runrev.com>
	<E2A4597E-F35F-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <41276DEA.3030100@fourthworld.com>

Frank Leahy wrote:
> The other thing that's interesting is that "the selectedChunk" was 
> reporting the wrong field number for me (it would return field 21 when 
> it should have been field 12 or field 14).

Do you have a recipe for reproducing that?  Unless something was very 
recently changed in the engine, the selectedField function should be 
among the most robust parts of the language, field-tested for more than 
a decade.

Could the issue you're seeing be caused by the Rev IDE's practice of 
naming fields with names that can evaluate to other objects (e.g., 
"field 1")?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Aug 21 12:32:06 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:32:06 -0600
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAECKGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAECKGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <A3E41446-F38F-11D8-BF0B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 21, 2004, at 8:08 AM, MisterX wrote:

> Besides, VPC compared to VMWare is like a toy car compared to
> a real car.

Some time ago I evaluated VMWare and VPC on W2K (or maybe an early XP). 
  Though VMWare described some better features, they did not work well.  
VMWare attempts to use the host OS networking to simulate networks and 
did a poor job of it.  It essentially broke SMB.

I need net simulation and serial simulation and VMWare (at that time) 
made lots of promises but fell short.

I have some customer simulations I keep around so I keep VPC.  But, 
I'll consider it again.

One of the problems with software targeted for linux is that it is 
sloppy and ports to Windows are made with little regard to quality.

> But vmware doesn't work on
> macs unfortunately.

If it was, I'd evaluate it again.

On the other hand, the drive files are not compatible between OS X VPC 
and Windows VPC.

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug 21 13:00:16 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 19:00:16 +0200
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <8967951D-F385-11D8-8EBC-000D932BD416@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGECMGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

MS already removed the linux side of things in VPC. The xbox SDK will 
surely run under it, so you seriously still should consider getting a PC.

Dell's price is not high and that's 130% of the price for a good 
abit or asus clone.

You can actually buy a good PC for the price of a 40GB ipod in the
far east or US for sure!


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Michael
> Young
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 17:20
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
> 
> 
> Sivakatirswami wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for everyone's input.  As always, many ways to describe an
> > elephant..
> >
> > Our Apple repair-lady was here today. She said "Forget VPC, you will
> > not only waste time but destabilize your whole system if you plan to do
> > anything else on that machine."
> >
> > But, I would be running VPC on OSX G4 dual-processor desktop model, (in
> > another room) to upgraded to a G5 soon... so I think the speed will be
> > acceptable.
> >
> > But productivity can be an issue... fiddling with VPC, vs having a
> > little DEL sitting on the corner of my own desk, plugged into the
> > network would mean instant review. If  you are trying to wrap something
> > up in 2 hours... it could mean a lot.
> >
> > I'll see for now if I can live with VPC and also see if budgets will
> > allow for a PC box...
> >
> > Thanks
> > Sivakatirswami
> >
> 
> Remember VPC for Mac will not run on G5 yet and this VPC for Mac will  
> be the first new version put out under the Microsoft label, rather than  
> Connectix. So who knows if Microsoft will do a good job on this  
> version.
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/using.aspx? 
> pid=usingvirtualpc
> http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/virtualpc.aspx? 
> pid=comingsoon
> 
> The online tech literature I have read says the VPC 7 for Mac delay is  
> because Microsoft wanted to get XP SP2 out the door. If you have been  
> following that story you know hot fixes for SP2 are already coming out.  
> I don't see how that can help get VPC 7 for Mac out any sooner. Sigh.
> 
> VPC on a modern Mac is slower than all but an ancient PC. Duh. :)  
> However my wife used VPC 3, 5 and then 6 on a Power Mac (Sawtooth  
> version) 400 MHz machine with 1 GB RAM for a couple of years to run  
> Windows 95, 98 and then 2000 primarily so that she could run several  
> different versions of Windows only Microsoft Money, which is a standard  
> consumer application. Performance was acceptable. She never had a  
> glitch from VPC. Things worked like they would on a real PC. She and I  
> were satisfied.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Michael Y
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug 21 13:10:19 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 19:10:19 +0200
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <OF043EA105.4FEABF9A-ON85256EF7.004D5B3E@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMECMGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Roger,

Testing linux on a pc in vmware is also nice...

And with the virtual nets or connections, it's just 
like using a terminal server, no drop in performance, 
near real time refresh over gigabit nets!

But not for newbies who dont RT[F]M... Dar, I dont know
how you managed, but we run VMW virtual clusters over 
multidomains, virtual LANs with AD and DFS and no such
probs as you descripbe!

We had a few gurus, budget for consultants and the right
hardware though. VMW is not for the weak of budget or 
occasional PC user either! Hardware is 2-4 GBs
of RAM, NAS or lots of RAID storage, and definitely a Gb
network recommented for a reasonable performance to use
Window 2K3. HP has a config with blade servers runnning
VMWs... Quite nice but I still prefer metaframes or 
Terminal servers over W2K[3]. Cheaper and faster... But
not as flexible.

In comparison, using Terminal server, all you need is a
P4, 256MBs of ram, and a fast network to have good 
performance. 

BTW, Do you need a RR license for each instance of RR 
you run?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of
> Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 16:21
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: RE: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
> 
> 
> > Besides, VPC compared to VMWare is like a toy car compared to
> > a real car. HP sells VPC as a virtual server now if this puts
> > you in the picture. We use it a work to validate clusters and
> > run experimental system installs. But vmware doesn't work on
> > macs unfortunately.
> 
> If you primarily develop for x-plat on a Mac, I would say that having 
> VMware running on an additional x86 box would give you an excellent 
> testing area for multiple Rev supported operating systems. With VMware, 
> you can have multiple OS' running simultaneously, including various 
> flavors of Linux and WinXP, Win2K, WinMe, NT, bla bla bla. Basically 
> anything that was designed for X86 hardware. I have used VMware from 
> within Linux to run Windows Me, and there was practically no drop in 
> performance compared to booting directly into a native x86 OS. Of course 
> because you are running them simultaneously, you do have to share system 
> resources.
> 
> Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Aug 21 13:26:00 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:26:00 -0500
Subject: Edit menu recipe?
In-Reply-To: <E2A4597E-F35F-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <20040820160003.9023B9300E6@mail.runrev.com>
	<E2A4597E-F35F-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <412785A8.1020108@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/21/04 5:50 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> Many thanks for the suggestions.  I tried yours Jacqueline, and while it 
> came close, I had problems with paste in particular where the selection 
> point after the paste was in the wrong place (it was before the pasted 
> data instead of after it).  Not sure why that was, I gave up and 
> re-rolled my own.

I've never seen this. I just tried it again and the selection point 
moves to the end of the pasted section. Maybe you have scripts that 
interfere somewhere?
> 
> Anyway, it's all working now...thanks again.

Well, that's the main thing. Whatever works.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Sat Aug 21 13:30:15 2004
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:30:15 -0500
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX
In-Reply-To: <BD4A8D9B.43C8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD4A8D9B.43C8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <C36C9FBC-F397-11D8-B4BD-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>

Ken, et al.,

Where to do you put the lock/unlock screen in order to get rid of 
opening stack flicker? (See below for details.)

- Before and after you go to the stack? Tried this and flicker still 
there.
- On preOpenstack? Tried this and flicker still there.
- On preOpenstack? Tried this and flicker still there.
- Before I go to bed while I'm praying? Tried this and flicker still 
there.

Any additional hints would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Jerry

On Aug 19, 2004, at 5:02 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>
>>> I've looked at the archives (nada) and tried fiddling with
>>> alwaysBuffer, bufferhiddenImages and screenNoPixmaps to no avail.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts, haters of flicker?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Jerry
>>>
>> My stacks and stand alones in OS X occasionally open up TOTALY Black,
>> nothing can be seen.
>> I have to resize the stack to get the controls to show up and the
>> blackness to vanish.
>
> Funny, I thought it was just me... but for me it's on Windows XP where 
> this
> happens. A lock/unlock screen combo will redraw, but it shouldn't be 
> there
> in the first place.
>
> Bill, did you Bugzilla this by any chance? If so, I'll add my "me 
> too"s...
>
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Aug 21 13:39:50 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:39:50 -0700
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX
In-Reply-To: <C36C9FBC-F397-11D8-B4BD-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <BD4CD6F6.1324C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Where to do you put the lock/unlock screen in order to get rid of
> opening stack flicker? (See below for details.)
> 
> - Before and after you go to the stack? Tried this and flicker still
> there.
> - On preOpenstack? Tried this and flicker still there.
> - On preOpenstack? Tried this and flicker still there.
> - Before I go to bed while I'm praying? Tried this and flicker still
> there.
> 
> Any additional hints would be greatly appreciated.

Not sure if you've already checked this but I've found that most flicker is
usually caused by the alwaysBuffer of the stack being set to false.  When
set to true, flicker should stop.

Also, have you already tried initializing your stack invisibly and showing
it once the init process is complete?

Sorry if these are not new suggestions.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Sat Aug 21 14:23:31 2004
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 13:23:31 -0500
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX
In-Reply-To: <BD4CD6F6.1324C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BD4CD6F6.1324C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <34753C4C-F39F-11D8-B4BD-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>

Scott,

The alwaysBuffer approach I have tried already, but thanks for the 
suggestion.

I think you're suggesting that I go invisibly to the stack and then 
show it. Is that what you mean? I'll try that.

Thanks,

Jerry

On Aug 21, 2004, at 12:39 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>> Where to do you put the lock/unlock screen in order to get rid of
>> opening stack flicker? (See below for details.)
>>
>> - Before and after you go to the stack? Tried this and flicker still
>> there.
>> - On preOpenstack? Tried this and flicker still there.
>> - On preOpenstack? Tried this and flicker still there.
>> - Before I go to bed while I'm praying? Tried this and flicker still
>> there.
>>
>> Any additional hints would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Not sure if you've already checked this but I've found that most 
> flicker is
> usually caused by the alwaysBuffer of the stack being set to false.  
> When
> set to true, flicker should stop.
>
> Also, have you already tried initializing your stack invisibly and 
> showing
> it once the init process is complete?
>
> Sorry if these are not new suggestions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Development & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From j.dixon7 at btinternet.com  Sat Aug 21 16:52:56 2004
From: j.dixon7 at btinternet.com (John Dixon)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:52:56 +0100
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGECMGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <BD4D74B8.C03D%j.dixon7@btinternet.com>

On 21/8/04 6:00 pm, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> MS already removed the linux side of things in VPC. The xbox SDK will
> surely run under it, so you seriously still should consider getting a PC.
> 

No one should ever seriously consider buying a PC!


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sat Aug 21 17:33:52 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 17:33:52 -0400
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
Message-ID: <OF57E1AAAC.61A4CEE4-ON85256EF7.00762418@sealedair.com>

John Dixon <j.dixon7 at btinternet.com> wrote:

> On 21/8/04 6:00 pm, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> 
>> MS already removed the linux side of things in VPC. The xbox SDK will
>> surely run under it, so you seriously still should consider getting a 
PC.
>>
> 
> No one should ever seriously consider buying a PC!

You silly Mac user!  ;-)

~Roger


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Sat Aug 21 18:00:59 2004
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 17:00:59 -0500
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX
In-Reply-To: <BD4CD6F6.1324C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BD4CD6F6.1324C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <9582039A-F3BD-11D8-B4BD-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>

Scott, Ken, et al.,

I have found a way to eliminate the flicker:

1. I set the loc of the stack to "-5000,-5000"
2. Then I set did a "go to the stack"
3. Then I moved the stack to the desired location

No flicker of any kind. But there is a caveat:

This works great with any stack as long as its style is not modal or is 
not being made modal by the modal command.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Jerry

On Aug 21, 2004, at 12:39 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>> Where to do you put the lock/unlock screen in order to get rid of
>> opening stack flicker? (See below for details.)
>>
>> - Before and after you go to the stack? Tried this and flicker still
>> there.
>> - On preOpenstack? Tried this and flicker still there.
>> - On preOpenstack? Tried this and flicker still there.
>> - Before I go to bed while I'm praying? Tried this and flicker still
>> there.
>>
>> Any additional hints would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Not sure if you've already checked this but I've found that most 
> flicker is
> usually caused by the alwaysBuffer of the stack being set to false.  
> When
> set to true, flicker should stop.
>
> Also, have you already tried initializing your stack invisibly and 
> showing
> it once the init process is complete?
>
> Sorry if these are not new suggestions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Development & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Aug 21 19:10:57 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 00:10:57 +0100
Subject: simple libSMTP send example, help
In-Reply-To: <B96BE441-F37E-11D8-A4A2-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <8C32F7F0-F302-11D8-985B-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040822000345.00ae5578@mail.tweedly.net>

At 07:31 21/08/2004 -0700, Mark Brownell wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm trying to get  libSMTP to work for a basic simple email send.
>
>If I use this to add the libraries with the stacks added to my main stack 
>already:
>
>on openStack
>   start using stack "libEmail"
>   start using stack "libSmtp"
>end openStack
>
>on closeStack
>   stop using stack "libEmail"
>   stop using stack "libSmtp"
>end closeStack
>
>Then I need a few lines of code to send email to this destination:
>send "ABCDEFG test" to "gizmotron at earthlink.net" with subject "test send"
>
>or
>body = "ABCDEFG test"
>destination = "gizmotron at earthlink.net"
>subject  = "test send"
>
>I'm searching for a simple example of using libSmtp to send a plain text 
>email. I can't get the example to work from Shoe Sean's website example. I 
>think it is because I'm not sure how to use adding destinations and saving 
>and/or selecting them during a send. Anyway it crashes on an HTMLtext 
>handler. I'm using Rev 2.2 on Mac OSX. Does anyone have a basic email 
>stack or example of code using these libraries that sends a single email 
>without it being something that looks like it came from the source code of 
>a full blown email client?
>
>Having it report that the email was successfully sent looks like it is 
>part of the lib also.

Here's about the most basic you can get .... and it worked on only my 200th 
try :-)

>on mouseUp
>   put "alex at tweedly.net"&cr into mFrom
>   put "alex at tweedly.net" & lf & "alex at tweedly.com" & lf into mTo
>   put "A simple text message" & cr & "over two lines" into mMessage
>   put "smtp.btinternet.com" into mServer
>   put "25" into mPort
>   put "about to go " after msg
>   put libSmtp.send(mFrom, mTo, mMessage, mServer)
>   put the result after msg
>end mouseUp

Note - LF to separate the recipients

Note - I think I picked up an old version of the library, so you may need 
to change libSmtp.send to libSmtpSend if you have the later one from the 
appExample stack

Note  - this sends the message to two of my addresses. I did receive both 
copies; the one that came via the .com address (which forwards it to the 
.net one) looked OK
>Delivered-To: 1000-alex at tweedly.net
>From: alex at tweedly.net
>Bcc:
>Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 00:51:55 +0200
>X-Provags-Forward: alex at tweedly.com -> alex at tweedly.net
>
>A simple text message
>over two lines

The one that came "direct" looked bad -
>Delivered-To: 1000-alex at tweedly.net
>
>
>A simple text message
>over two lines

and it had no "Who" (who from) entry in my Eudora inbox summary.

So you should use libEmail to fill in a more complete message.

-- Alex.

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 21 19:09:53 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 16:09:53 -0700
Subject: simple libSMTP send example, help
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040822000345.00ae5578@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <35A44CE4-F3C7-11D8-A753-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Saturday, August 21, 2004, at 04:10 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

>> put "smtp.btinternet.com" into mServer
>>   put "25" into mPort

I'm trying to get users of a standalone app to send me a message. Can 
they send using my  mServer, "smtp.earthlink.net" or do I need to some 
how learn how the example gets the user's  mServer , "???" to have this 
work?

Thanks for all that 200+ work.

Mark


From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Aug 21 19:28:39 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 00:28:39 +0100
Subject: simple libSMTP send example, help
In-Reply-To: <35A44CE4-F3C7-11D8-A753-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040822000345.00ae5578@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040822002141.02f09f58@mail.tweedly.net>

At 16:09 21/08/2004 -0700, Mark Brownell wrote:


>On Saturday, August 21, 2004, at 04:10 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>>>put "smtp.btinternet.com" into mServer
>>>   put "25" into mPort
>
>I'm trying to get users of a standalone app to send me a message. Can they 
>send using my  mServer, "smtp.earthlink.net" or do I need to some how 
>learn how the example gets the user's  mServer , "???" to have this work?

I'd be very surprised  if they could use your SMTP server. That would imply 
that anyone could use it - and it would be open to all kinds of spam abuse.

Note that although I set the mPort to 25, I didn't use it :-)
As far as I know, you can pretty much depend on SMTP servers using port 25 
these days - but don't rely too much on that .... So it should be as simple 
as asking them for their smtp server name. Of course, not all of them will 
know ....  not sure how you can solve that.

Have you considered trying to invoke their email program to send the 
message; like a browser does with a "mailto:someone at somewhere.com" ?   Not 
that I have any idea how you'd go about doing that :-(

>Thanks for all that 200+ work.

My pleasure - I wanted to try out these libraries anyway, so this was a 
good trigger to getting round to it. And if I hadn't been so dumb in one 
particular way, I'd have got it within 20 tries :-)

-- Alex.

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 21 19:35:13 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 16:35:13 -0700
Subject: simple libSMTP send example, help
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040822002141.02f09f58@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BFA7B02E-F3CA-11D8-A753-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Saturday, August 21, 2004, at 04:28 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Have you considered trying to invoke their email program to send the 
> message; like a browser does with a "mailto:someone at somewhere.com" ?   
> Not that I have any idea how you'd go about doing that :-(

That's what I'm doing now, if they remember to paste in the message 
section it works fine except for when some people's Windows machines 
open old email clients with old settings and the email goes to the dead 
email dungeon. I was looking for a way to send an email without even 
using an e-mail client on the user's computer. I had a great Lasso form 
feed that sent messages from shockwave forms through the servers' 
default mailer.

This is a perfect case for a CGI that stores the data so that I can 
gather the data that comes in. I've never done that before and I doubt 
that earthlink has the proper privileges for setting it up. I know that 
my earthlink domains have CGI folders in each main folder. Guess I'll 
have to see what they have to offer.

Mark


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 21 20:11:45 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 17:11:45 -0700
Subject: simple libSMTP send example, help
In-Reply-To: <BFA7B02E-F3CA-11D8-A753-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <DA2B2DBA-F3CF-11D8-A753-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Saturday, August 21, 2004, at 04:35 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> This is a perfect case for a CGI that stores the data so that I can 
> gather the data that comes in. I've never done that before and I doubt 
> that earthlink has the proper privileges for setting it up. I know 
> that my earthlink domains have CGI folders in each main folder. Guess 
> I'll have to see what they have to offer.
>
> Mark

I've found an elegent solution by having my app FTP to the incoming 
public folder on my domain site. Now I can write a solution that 
automates batch proccessing of product fulfilment tasks using another 
app created with Rev. So this way incoming e-Mail is out of the story 
and so is CGI.

Thanks for the help,

Mark


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug 21 22:11:52 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:11:52 -0500
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX
In-Reply-To: <C36C9FBC-F397-11D8-B4BD-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <BD4D6B18.4560%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/21/04 12:30 PM, "Jerry Daniels" <jerry at daniels-mara.com> wrote:

> Ken, et al.,
> 
> Where to do you put the lock/unlock screen in order to get rid of
> opening stack flicker? (See below for details.)
> 
> - Before and after you go to the stack? Tried this and flicker still
> there.
> - On preOpenstack? Tried this and flicker still there.
> - On preOpenstack? Tried this and flicker still there.
> - Before I go to bed while I'm praying? Tried this and flicker still
> there.

Well, praying couldn't hurt... ;-)

Actually, I make a "FixUI" handler and at the end of my preOpenCard I put:

  send "FixUI" to me in 20 miilliseconds

and in FixUI, it locks/unlocks. This gives the preOpenCard handler time to
complete, for Rev to go idle and for it to attempt to redraw. Then the
incoming message forces the lock/unlock.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jimlyons at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 21 22:17:36 2004
From: jimlyons at earthlink.net (Jim Lyons)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 22:17:36 -0400
Subject: Critter
Message-ID: <6F634987-F3E1-11D8-BE74-000A95893982@earthlink.net>

Got time to play for a few minutes? Create a new stack and make an oval 
graphic about 32 by 32 pixels. Set its arcAngle to about 330 degrees. 
Set the _stack_ script to:

on mouseMove x,y
   if x,y is within the rect of grc 1 then exit mouseMove
   get the loc of grc 1
   set the startAngle of grc 1 to \
       -180*atan2( (y-item 2 of it),(x-item 1 of it) )/pi \
       + (360 - the arcAngle of grc 1)/2
   move grc 1 to x,y without waiting
end mouseMove

Play with the move speed. Enjoy. Now get back to work. ;^)

Jim Lyons


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Aug 21 23:22:12 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 05:22:12 +0200
Subject: Critter
In-Reply-To: <6F634987-F3E1-11D8-BE74-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMECPGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Cool. Here's the script I made last week that does
something similar! A bit smoother in movement thanks
to the speed differentiator. 

Then I tried yours by duplicating my oval. I just
pasted your script and even in development mode, I
had my graphic follow yours! ;) Im also working on
bouncing, gravity, friction and elasticity.

This could be the start of a cool video game!

on mousedown
  put 12 into xspeed
  put 12 into yspeed
  
  put the width of me into mW
  put the height of me into mH
  put mW div 2 into mW2
  put mH div 2 into mH2
  put the mouseh - left of me into xoff
  put the mousev - top of me into yoff
  put the width of this stack into stackwidth
    put the height of this stack into stackheight

  put the rect of this stack into limits
  lock messages
  
  repeat while the mouse is down
     
    put left of me + xoff into midx
    put top  of me + yoff into midy
    
    put the mouseh into nux
    put the mousev into nuy
     
    -- limit if out of 3dpane
     
    get the left of me
    add (nux - midx) / xspeed to it
    if it <= 1
    then get 1
    else if it + mw >= stackwidth
    then get stackwidth - mw
    set the left of me to it
    
    get the top of me
    add (nuy - midy) / yspeed to it
    if it <= 1
    then get 1
    else if it + mH >= stackheight
    then get stackheight - mH
    set the top of me to it 
     
  end repeat
end mousedown

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lyons
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 04:18
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Critter
> 
> 
> Got time to play for a few minutes? Create a new stack and make an oval 
> graphic about 32 by 32 pixels. Set its arcAngle to about 330 degrees. 
> Set the _stack_ script to:
> 
> on mouseMove x,y
>    if x,y is within the rect of grc 1 then exit mouseMove
>    get the loc of grc 1
>    set the startAngle of grc 1 to \
>        -180*atan2( (y-item 2 of it),(x-item 1 of it) )/pi \
>        + (360 - the arcAngle of grc 1)/2
>    move grc 1 to x,y without waiting
> end mouseMove
> 
> Play with the move speed. Enjoy. Now get back to work. ;^)
> 
> Jim Lyons
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Aug 22 00:00:56 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 23:00:56 -0500
Subject: Critter
In-Reply-To: <6F634987-F3E1-11D8-BE74-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BD4D84A8.4567%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/21/04 9:17 PM, "Jim Lyons" <jimlyons at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Got time to play for a few minutes? Create a new stack and make an oval
> graphic about 32 by 32 pixels. Set its arcAngle to about 330 degrees.
> Set the _stack_ script to:
> 
> on mouseMove x,y
>    if x,y is within the rect of grc 1 then exit mouseMove
>    get the loc of grc 1
>    set the startAngle of grc 1 to \
>        -180*atan2( (y-item 2 of it),(x-item 1 of it) )/pi \
>        + (360 - the arcAngle of grc 1)/2
>    move grc 1 to x,y without waiting
> end mouseMove
> 
> Play with the move speed. Enjoy. Now get back to work. ;^)

Hey, that's sweet! And so simple!

Thanks, Jim!


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From katir at hindu.org  Sun Aug 22 00:36:07 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:36:07 -1000
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX
In-Reply-To: <BD4D6B18.4560%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD4D6B18.4560%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <C8FE217C-F3F4-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

flicker confimed here... and also the occasional completely blank 
stack, until resize (OSX)

No recipe, needs to be bugZilla'ed

On Aug 21, 2004, at 4:11 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 8/21/04 12:30 PM, "Jerry Daniels" <jerry at daniels-mara.com> wrote:
>
>> Ken, et al.,
>>
>> Where to do you put the lock/unlock screen in order to get rid of
>> opening stack flicker? (See below for details.)
>>
>> - Before and after you go to the stack? Tried this and flicker still
>> there.
>> - On preOpenstack? Tried this and flicker still there.
>> - On preOpenstack? Tried this and flicker still there.
>> - Before I go to bed while I'm praying? Tried this and flicker still
>> there.
>
> Well, praying couldn't hurt... ;-)
>
> Actually, I make a "FixUI" handler and at the end of my preOpenCard I 
> put:
>
>   send "FixUI" to me in 20 miilliseconds
>
> and in FixUI, it locks/unlocks. This gives the preOpenCard handler 
> time to
> complete, for Rev to go idle and for it to attempt to redraw. Then the
> incoming message forces the lock/unlock.
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From bill at igame3d.com  Sun Aug 22 01:50:44 2004
From: bill at igame3d.com (william griffin)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 01:50:44 -0400
Subject: Critter (Meme PacAttack!!!)
In-Reply-To: <20040822043324.DC9629300D8@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040822043324.DC9629300D8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <35587D40-F3FF-11D8-8953-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

Fancy! Last couple of days I've been thinking of how to pull of games in
in Bj?rnke's RevChat, two the problem of direction vectors in rev
and a multiplayer player vs player Pac-Man crossed my mind not even 
twelve hours ago.

Funny Bj?rnke's chat pretty much started as a part of his mission for 
his uDevGames entry "Meme".
It seems to have started its own wave on the ether.

You should hear some new news about revChat soon, I encourage folks to 
get in on the Revolution!

Seize the Day!

Mr Bill

From themacguy at macosx.com  Sun Aug 22 02:20:46 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 00:20:46 -0600
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
Message-ID: <BD4D975E.24A5%themacguy@macosx.com>

I was plating with RealBasic and was shocked to discover that synthetic
speech worked on WindowsXP. Is this something that Rev now supports? The
last time I asked (about a year ago), the answer was no.

Thanks,
Barry



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Aug 22 03:23:36 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 09:23:36 +0200
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
In-Reply-To: <BD4D975E.24A5%themacguy@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEDBGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

I think there is something about it in the readme...

It's in the what's new actually


Issue:  On Windows systems, the Speech library is not yet compatible with
version
5.x of Microsoft's speech software.
Workaround:  Use version 4.x instead.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Barry
> Levine
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 08:21
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
>
>
> I was plating with RealBasic and was shocked to discover that synthetic
> speech worked on WindowsXP. Is this something that Rev now supports? The
> last time I asked (about a year ago), the answer was no.
>
> Thanks,
> Barry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Sun Aug 22 04:34:23 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 04:34:23 EDT
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX 
Message-ID: <105.4ebfcb3c.2e59b48f@aol.com>

Jerry:

> 1. I set the loc of the stack to "-5000,-5000"
>  2. Then I set did a "go to the stack"
> 3. Then I moved the stack to the  desired location
> 
> No flicker of any kind. But there is a  caveat:
> 
> This works great with any stack as long as its style is  not modal or is 
> not being made modal by the modal command.

Try  putting this script in the stack opening window...
 
on preopenstack
  setBuffer FALSE
end preOpenStack
 
on openStack
  send "setBuffer TRUE" to me in 30
end openStack
 
on setBuffer flag
set the alwaysBuffer of this stack to  flag
if not flag then set the bottomRight of this stack to  -100,-100
else set the loc of this stack to the screenLoc
end  setBuffer

This should solve the situation for any style of window. Please  let me know.
 
/H

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 22 13:38:17 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:38:17 -0400
Subject: Rev 2.5b2 stable enough?
In-Reply-To: <C8FE217C-F3F4-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <BD4D6B18.4560%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<C8FE217C-F3F4-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <0D5A8116-F462-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

I'm starting to prototype a new app and would like to do it using Rev 
2.5 if possible (mainly to increase my familiarity with the changes in 
2.5--none of its new features are required for this app).  My sense is 
that 2.5b2 is stable enough to use for this purpose but I wonder what 
others think.

Should I just stick to 2.1.2 for now or prototype in 2.5b2?

M


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 22 13:46:55 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:46:55 -0400
Subject: Rev 2.5b2 stable enough?
In-Reply-To: <0D5A8116-F462-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <BD4D6B18.4560%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<C8FE217C-F3F4-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<0D5A8116-F462-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4207FDC2-F463-11D8-A247-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 22, 2004, at 1:38 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> I'm starting to prototype a new app and would like to do it using Rev 
> 2.5 if possible (mainly to increase my familiarity with the changes in 
> 2.5--none of its new features are required for this app).  My sense is 
> that 2.5b2 is stable enough to use for this purpose but I wonder what 
> others think.
>
> Should I just stick to 2.1.2 for now or prototype in 2.5b2?

I had been asking myself the same question, and chose to start working 
in 2.5. While it still has a few issues (which should be cleared soon, 
I think) it also has many, many bug fixes which are in place now. Be 
prepared for a few odd things, but generally, I'm not regretting it, 
I'm finding it productive, and overall just nice to work in.

On the other side of things, if you aren't using an archiving system to 
save versions of your files, I'd especially suggest it while working in 
*any* beta.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 22 13:53:28 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:53:28 -0400
Subject: Rev 2.5b2 stable enough?
In-Reply-To: <4207FDC2-F463-11D8-A247-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <BD4D6B18.4560%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<C8FE217C-F3F4-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<0D5A8116-F462-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<4207FDC2-F463-11D8-A247-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <2C8E16A1-F464-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Me, too--except that the loss of the grabber hand, at least in the IDE, 
is still driving me crazy.  I'm sure I'll eventually get used to it...
M

On Aug 22, 2004, at 1:46 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> I'm finding it productive, and overall just nice to work in.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Aug 22 13:55:19 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 12:55:19 -0500
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <20040820223936.13323.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040820223936.13323.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4128DE07.4090209@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/20/04 5:39 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:
 >
 > so we are still dependent on Quicktime,
 > so be it.
 >
 > the Velocity (Volume) parameter does not exist
 > in HyperTalk, that's a QT specific activation?

Yes, I think so. Though you could also set the playLoudness property 
with Transcript if you want.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Aug 22 15:51:06 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:51:06 +0200
Subject: Rev 2.5b2 stable enough?
In-Reply-To: <2C8E16A1-F464-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <BD4D6B18.4560%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<C8FE217C-F3F4-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<0D5A8116-F462-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<4207FDC2-F463-11D8-A247-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<2C8E16A1-F464-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9B075BC4-F474-11D8-8688-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>


Le 22-ao?t-04, ? 19:53, Marian Petrides a ?crit :

> Me, too--except that the loss of the grabber hand, at least in the 
> IDE, is still driving me crazy.  I'm sure I'll eventually get used to 
> it...
> M
>
> On Aug 22, 2004, at 1:46 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>
>> I'm finding it productive, and overall just nice to work in.
>
>


Dear Marian,

Rev 2.5 is a BETA version

I should NOT do that

Don't forget that the file format is other than in the previous versions
Could a file created in 2.5 be open with a prev version if you have a 
problem ???

Begin your development in 2.2 and further in 2.5 eventually if you need 
or re-compile your app with 2.5 later...

My 2 cents...

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Aug 22 06:04:45 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 03:04:45 -0700
Subject: Disabled buttons appearance
In-Reply-To: <DD17F808-F35A-11D8-BAA6-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
References: <DD17F808-F35A-11D8-BAA6-000A95CE8EE6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p061005aabd4d41000514@[66.93.39.98]>

At 12:14 PM +0200 8/21/2004, Ton Cardona wrote:
>?Is there a way of controlling the appearance (colors, shadows etc) 
>of disabled buttons?

You control the colors and shadows of a button the same when it's 
disabled as when it's enabled - by setting the various color 
properties, the shadowOffset, etc.

(If you mean something more like, "is there a global way of setting 
up colors, etc. to be used for all disabled buttons", then not that I 
know of.)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Aug 22 15:56:54 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 12:56:54 -0700
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <29AC248C-F2CE-11D8-9A00-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <29AC248C-F2CE-11D8-9A00-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p06100543bd4cbd1a9dcd@[66.93.39.98]>

At 10:27 AM -0700 8/20/2004, Mark Brownell wrote:
>I finally found what I was looking for in the basic core for all my 
>pull-parser needs. With the help of those at Run Rev this was found:
>>So, one idea is to implement a function:
>>   matchGlobal(stringToSearch, token)
>>returning a list of all indices in stringToSearch of token.
>>
>>e.g.
>>   get matchGlobal("<a>foo</a><a>bar</a><a>baz</a>", "<a>")
>>would give
>>   it[1] = 1
>>   it[2] = 10
>>   it[3] = 20

The functionality sounds good, but may I put in a vote for readable 
syntax, instead of this C-like horror? ;-) For example, this one has 
been discussed pretty extensively on the Xtalk list:

   get the offsets of "<a>" in "<a>foo</a><a>bar</a><a>baz</a>"

returning either the array as above (although I'm a bit allergic to 
arrays in cases where they're not absolutely needed - difficult to 
display for debugging, etc.), or, as in most return values, a simple 
comma-delimited list: 1,10,20.

There are some advantages, since "offset" already exists and so 
"offsets" leverages off developer knowledge of that function. The 
syntax is also cleaner than the existing "offset" syntax, which has 
been a rough spot ever since HyperTalk 1.0, so making the obvious 
extension to the offset function might not be a bad idea. This could 
also be extended to word offsets, item offsets, and line offsets 
matching the current "offset" function variants.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Sun Aug 22 16:08:13 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:08:13 +0200
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
References: <29AC248C-F2CE-11D8-9A00-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
	<p06100543bd4cbd1a9dcd@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <4128FD27.C8E56F27@Club-Internet.fr>

>
>
> There are some advantages, since "offset" already exists and so
> "offsets" leverages off developer knowledge of that function. The
> syntax is also cleaner than the existing "offset" syntax, which has
> been a rough spot ever since HyperTalk 1.0, so making the obvious
> extension to the offset function might not be a bad idea. This could
> also be extended to word offsets, item offsets, and line offsets
> matching the current "offset" function variants.
> --

Another interesting extension would be to combine various offsets,
for instance to be able with 1 single command to get the lineoffset
and itemoffset of an element inside a variable containing multiple
lines with multiple items in each...

JB


From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Aug 22 16:25:25 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:25:25 +0100
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <p06100543bd4cbd1a9dcd@[66.93.39.98]>
References: <29AC248C-F2CE-11D8-9A00-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
 <29AC248C-F2CE-11D8-9A00-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040822211844.02ef5320@mail.tweedly.net>

At 12:56 22/08/2004 -0700, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

>At 10:27 AM -0700 8/20/2004, Mark Brownell wrote:
>>I finally found what I was looking for in the basic core for all my 
>>pull-parser needs. With the help of those at Run Rev this was found:
>[ ...]
>The functionality sounds good, but may I put in a vote for readable 
>syntax, instead of this C-like horror? ;-) For example, this one has been 
>discussed pretty extensively on the Xtalk list:
>
>   get the offsets of "<a>" in "<a>foo</a><a>bar</a><a>baz</a>"
>
>returning either the array as above (although I'm a bit allergic to arrays 
>in cases where they're not absolutely needed - difficult to display for 
>debugging, etc.),

<hot button>
The fact that arrays aren't displayed in the debugger is a deficiency of 
the debugger and ought to be fixed, not an inherent problem of arrays. It 
could be associated with displaying multiple lines (e.g. using "\n" or 
"<cr><lf> or ....) in the debugger.

Nevertheless, returning a comma-separated list would be much nicer than an 
array.

>  or, as in most return values, a simple comma-delimited list: 1,10,20.

-- Alex.

From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 22 16:55:01 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 16:55:01 -0400
Subject: Rev 2.5b2 stable enough?
In-Reply-To: <9B075BC4-F474-11D8-8688-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
References: <BD4D6B18.4560%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<C8FE217C-F3F4-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<0D5A8116-F462-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<4207FDC2-F463-11D8-A247-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<2C8E16A1-F464-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<9B075BC4-F474-11D8-8688-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <8948970D-F47D-11D8-9476-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 22, 2004, at 3:51 PM, Yves COPPE wrote:

> Could a file created in 2.5 be open with a prev version if you have a 
> problem ???

Yes it can.

Keep in mind, the discussion was for "prototyping" not delivering a 
final product. 2.5 is in a good enough state to prototype, and if 
needed the project can be opened (and output) in 2.2.

Never deliver on a beta, but development at this stage should be fine, 
and allows a more thorough testing of the new release. IF you run into 
a blocker, you back down to 2.2 and keep moving.

As I said, there are a LOT of bug fixes in 2.5... perhaps enough to 
make it more useful at this stage than 2.2, depending on if one of 
those bugs is important to your work.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 22 17:08:38 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:08:38 -0400
Subject: Rev 2.5b2 stable enough?
In-Reply-To: <8948970D-F47D-11D8-9476-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <BD4D6B18.4560%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<C8FE217C-F3F4-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<0D5A8116-F462-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<4207FDC2-F463-11D8-A247-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<2C8E16A1-F464-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<9B075BC4-F474-11D8-8688-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<8948970D-F47D-11D8-9476-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <6FE26A32-F47F-11D8-A835-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Thanks, Yves (you echoed my concerns) and Troy,

At the moment, I'm mainly cleaning up the way messages are handled, now 
that I have a better feel for things having done a full app.  For 
example, I had been setting button colors as part of an openCard script 
in each card, but try changing 1000 cards that way.  So I'm moving it 
to the stack level.

If worst comes to worst, I figure I can always just copy the scripts to 
2.12 (or start collecting them in Scripter's Scrapbook--which I really 
should start doing anyway!).

M

On Aug 22, 2004, at 4:55 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 22, 2004, at 3:51 PM, Yves COPPE wrote:
>
>> Could a file created in 2.5 be open with a prev version if you have a 
>> problem ???
>
> Yes it can.
>
> Keep in mind, the discussion was for "prototyping" not delivering a 
> final product. 2.5 is in a good enough state to prototype, and if 
> needed the project can be opened (and output) in 2.2.
>
> Never deliver on a beta, but development at this stage should be fine, 
> and allows a more thorough testing of the new release. IF you run into 
> a blocker, you back down to 2.2 and keep moving.
>
> As I said, there are a LOT of bug fixes in 2.5... perhaps enough to 
> make it more useful at this stage than 2.2, depending on if one of 
> those bugs is important to your work.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From bvg at mac.com  Sun Aug 22 17:58:25 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:58:25 +0200
Subject: [ANN]ChatRev 1.1
Message-ID: <647B0D2A-F486-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>

Hi fellow developers
ChatRev got some new features, and now chatting is even more pleasant!
Type this to start chatting:
go stack url "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.1.rev"

you need to register anew even if you have registered in 1.0.

New features
-Click-able links
Like any decent chat, chatRev now allows you to click on urls and emails
-About
You can save a short text about yourself on the server now..
-Status mouseover
The "Real name" tool tip has been changed to a status tool tip, and can 
be set from within the chat.
-sending e-mail
You can open an e-mail to a chatter in your mail app.
-better ui
Various usability improvements and look changes.
-sounds
ChatRev can now issue a sound warning when someone logs in or out, or 
when chatter is happening.

have fun!
Bj?rnke von Gierke

<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.1.rev"

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 22 18:46:25 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:46:25 -0700
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040822211844.02ef5320@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <192D51BE-F48D-11D8-B29F-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Sunday, August 22, 2004, at 01:25 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Nevertheless, returning a comma-separated list would be much nicer 
> than an array.
>
>>  or, as in most return values, a simple comma-delimited list: 1,10,20.
>
> -- Alex.

Interesting choice. An array could be one split away if you needed it.

So let's say that you have hundreds of points either in an array or 
comma delimited. What would be the fastest way to get the value of the 
item just less than 100 in this following example?

1, 34, 67, 99, 109, 121, 133, 144, 155, (answer = item 4) -- 99

Would I have to loop through each one checking each during a repeat for 
the last item less-than 100 or is there a faster way to get the value 
in item 4. Every time I can drop a repeat loop seems to be a way to 
optimize the result based on speed issues.

Mark


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Aug 22 18:47:42 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:47:42 -0500
Subject: Edit menu recipe?
In-Reply-To: <412697ED.7070900@fourthworld.com>
References: <3137E639-F2A3-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<4126198C.4050605@hyperactivesw.com> <4126211A.1090308@fourthworld.com>
	<41266C54.7080900@hyperactivesw.com> <412697ED.7070900@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4129228E.6010401@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/20/04 7:31 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Yes, in older, slower xTalks one might get a noticeable difference 
> between "do" and the natural message path.
> 
> But it's a whole other world with Transcript -- this script tests timing 
> of both the natural message path and the "do" command:

<snip>

> So yes, using the do command is slower, but only by about 0.003ms.
> 
> Given that the menu script is responding to a user action and no user 
> will be faster than 0.003ms, there's no perceptable savings to the 
> system's performance, but using do can offer immediate savings for 
> developer productivity.

The "lost" productivity in the script I submitted consists of typing an 
extra 5 words, which doesn't slow me down much.

Continuing the curmudgeonliness: I'll keep doing it my way, I think. I 
am of the school that says loading the compiler unnecessaily is poor 
programming practice. A similar example would be in using unquoted 
literals; it works fine in many cases and doesn't really slow things 
down that much, but I don't use use them because they too are a poor 
habit to get into.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Aug 22 19:15:35 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:15:35 +1000
Subject: simple libSMTP send example, help
In-Reply-To: <35A44CE4-F3C7-11D8-A753-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <35A44CE4-F3C7-11D8-A753-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2C1FFDAC-F491-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> I'm trying to get users of a standalone app to send me a message. Can 
> they send using my  mServer, "smtp.earthlink.net" or do I need to some 
> how learn how the example gets the user's  mServer , "???" to have 
> this work?

Have you tried the revMail command? It hooks in to the user's default 
email client and makes an email with the specified subject, body and 
addressee.

Cheers,
Sarah


From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Aug 22 19:27:23 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 00:27:23 +0100
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <192D51BE-F48D-11D8-B29F-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040822211844.02ef5320@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823001011.02fe3db0@mail.tweedly.net>

At 15:46 22/08/2004 -0700, Mark Brownell wrote:


>So let's say that you have hundreds of points either in an array or comma 
>delimited. What would be the fastest way to get the value of the item just 
>less than 100 in this following example?
>
>1, 34, 67, 99, 109, 121, 133, 144, 155, (answer = item 4) -- 99
>
>Would I have to loop through each one checking each during a repeat for 
>the last item less-than 100 or is there a faster way to get the value in 
>item 4. Every time I can drop a repeat loop seems to be a way to optimize 
>the result based on speed issues.

If you have only have hundreds of points, then a loop may not be too bad.

However, since you know that data is ordered, you have other options.

If you have many hundreds, or thousands, then I would try out a binary 
search and compare its times to the simple repeat loop.

If you are enthusiastic, I'd try out a linear interpolation search as well 
- given the nature of the data, this might be noticeably better on average 
than binary search (but of course would be much worse in the worst case).

If you have many thousands, and you will be searching in the same data 
repeatedly, then you might build a balanced binary index tree or something 
more complicated - but you'd need to be very dependent on speed to consider 
this (and so you'd probably be better building an external to do it).

But a more fundamental question - why would you want to know that ? :-)

I'd guess it's because you have something like ....

    put the offsets of "<a>" of theText into tOff1
    put the offsets of "</a>" of theText into tOff2

and then your working through tOff2, find a value of 100 and want to find 
the matching (i.e. preceding) occurrence in tOff1.

You might consider doing something like ....
     repeat for each line L of tOff1
         put L & comma & "<a>" after tAllOff
     end repeat
     repeat for each line L of tOff2
        put L & comma & "</a>" after tAllOff
    end repeat
    sort tAllOff by item 1
and then working on the combined offset list.

Hmmmm - so maybe it would be worth asking for a single function to take a 
list of strings and put their offsets into a single list :
     put the offsets of "<a>,</a>" of myText into tAllOff
which would put
    1, <a>
    4, </a>
    9, <a>
   11, <a>
   25, </a>
   ... etc.
  into the list.   i.e. somewhat like  the earlier "split by string1 and 
string2" idea.

-- Alex.

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 22 19:26:30 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 16:26:30 -0700
Subject: simple libSMTP send example, help
In-Reply-To: <2C1FFDAC-F491-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <B23C7EEE-F492-11D8-B29F-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Sunday, August 22, 2004, at 04:15 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> I'm trying to get users of a standalone app to send me a message. Can 
>> they send using my  mServer, "smtp.earthlink.net" or do I need to 
>> some how learn how the example gets the user's  mServer , "???" to 
>> have this work?
>
> Have you tried the revMail command? It hooks in to the user's default 
> email client and makes an email with the specified subject, body and 
> addressee.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah

I've been using revGoURL mailto:bob at enzytesales.com.

I tried adding a subject to this url but was getting errors on some 
Windows emailers. I'll run revMail tests to see if this works. All they 
would need do is press send if that works well.

Thanks,

Mark


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 22 20:49:37 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:49:37 -0700
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823001011.02fe3db0@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <4F0396A2-F49E-11D8-B29F-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Sunday, August 22, 2004, at 04:27 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> At 15:46 22/08/2004 -0700, Mark Brownell wrote:
>
>
>> So let's say that you have hundreds of points either in an array or 
>> comma delimited. What would be the fastest way to get the value of 
>> the item just less than 100 in this following example?
>>
>> 1, 34, 67, 99, 109, 121, 133, 144, 155, (answer = item 4) -- 99
>>
>> Would I have to loop through each one checking each during a repeat 
>> for the last item less-than 100 or is there a faster way to get the 
>> value in item 4. Every time I can drop a repeat loop seems to be a 
>> way to optimize the result based on speed issues.
>
> If you have only have hundreds of points, then a loop may not be too 
> bad.

It was just an example to show getting item 4. In some cases I have 
hundreds out of millions.

> [snip]
> But a more fundamental question - why would you want to know that ? :-)

I wouldn't want to know that. :-) I have exactly what I need in 
offset() repeat loops. It's just too slow.

> I'd guess it's because you have something like ....
>
>    put the offsets of "<a>" of theText into tOff1
>    put the offsets of "</a>" of theText into tOff2
>
> and then your working through tOff2, find a value of 100 and want to 
> find the matching (i.e. preceding) occurrence in tOff1.

This is what I' doing.

I'm planning on using one smaller list to gather the few objects that 
fit numerically from the much larger list of objects. Once the smaller 
selected objects are parsed into an array I can use those only for my 
needs

Example of MTML: "<message>" objects

<message>
At 15:46 22/08/2004 -0700, Mark Brownell wrote:

<important Phrase>So let's say that you have hundreds of points either 
in an array or comma delimited. What would be the <soWhat>fastest way 
to get the value of the item just less than 100 in this following 
example? </soWhat> </important Phrase>

<I need this sorted>1, 34, 67, 99, 109, 121, 133, 144, 155, (answer = 
item 4) -- 99 </I need this sorted>

Would I have to loop through each one checking each during a repeat for 
the last item less-than 100 or is there a faster way to get the value 
in item 4. <sort this>Every time I can drop a repeat loop seems to be a 
way to optimize the result based on speed issues. </sort this>

<won't work>If you have only have hundreds of points, then a loop may 
not be too bad. </won't work>
</message>

Now let's say that I had thousands of message objects in a single 
document and I wanted to use this to get the numerical points for each 
message objects start and end points.

put the offsets(myString, "<message>" into zap1
put the offsets(myString, "</message>" into zap2

now if I use this same function for:
put the offsets(myString, "<soWhat>" into soWhatList

Let's say that I get ten hits for "<soWhat>" and they occur at several  
numerical locations that turn out to be in message objects 20, 50, 60, 
77, 200, etc...
What I do now is parse all 1000 message objects and check each one for 
the existence of the "<soWhat>" element.

What I would like to do is just go to the ten message objects numerical 
start and end points and parse them only. I do this by checking to see 
if a "<soWhat>" number falls between a message objects' start and end 
points. If that occurs then I would add that message to my smaller list 
of message objects.

So this: 40, 50, 60, 70 would be used on this:

5, 15, 25, 35, 45, 55, 65, 75, 85, 95, to select items 4,5,6, and 7

the first item 40 happens just after 35 in the larger list at the forth 
item
the second item 50 happens just after 45 in the larger list at the 
fifth item
the third item 60 happens just after 55 in the larger list at the sixth 
item
the forth item 70 happens just after 65 in the larger list at the 
seventh item

If I know the item number I'm interested in then I can use the value 
found at that item to get that object. This would be a much faster 
process than looping through every object to see if it has the 
secondary object of interest.

> You might consider doing something like ....
>     repeat for each line L of tOff1
>         put L & comma & "<a>" after tAllOff
>     end repeat
>     repeat for each line L of tOff2
>        put L & comma & "</a>" after tAllOff
>    end repeat
>    sort tAllOff by item 1
> and then working on the combined offset list.

Don't need more repeat loops.

> Hmmmm - so maybe it would be worth asking for a single function to 
> take a list of strings and put their offsets into a single list :
>     put the offsets of "<a>,</a>" of myText into tAllOff
> which would put
>    1, <a>
>    4, </a>
>    9, <a>
>   11, <a>
>   25, </a>
>   ... etc.
>  into the list.   i.e. somewhat like  the earlier "split by string1 
> and string2" idea.
>
> -- Alex.

That's how my first tests went five years ago. It's clunky working 
through a single list of doubles. By using a single list of singles you 
can do my example above, and in half the time possibly.

Mark


From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Aug 22 22:25:20 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 03:25:20 +0100
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <4F0396A2-F49E-11D8-B29F-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823001011.02fe3db0@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823023845.02ec6e20@mail.tweedly.net>

At 17:49 22/08/2004 -0700, Mark Brownell wrote:


>On Sunday, August 22, 2004, at 04:27 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>>At 15:46 22/08/2004 -0700, Mark Brownell wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So let's say that you have hundreds of points either in an array or 
>>>comma delimited. What would be the fastest way to get the value of the 
>>>item just less than 100 in this following example?
>>>
>>>1, 34, 67, 99, 109, 121, 133, 144, 155, (answer = item 4) -- 99
>>>
>>>Would I have to loop through each one checking each during a repeat for 
>>>the last item less-than 100 or is there a faster way to get the value in 
>>>item 4. Every time I can drop a repeat loop seems to be a way to 
>>>optimize the result based on speed issues.
>>
>>If you have only have hundreds of points, then a loop may not be too bad.
>
>It was just an example to show getting item 4. In some cases I have 
>hundreds out of millions.

So a binary or linear interpolation search would be faster that a simple 
repeat loop.
Just do it !  :-)

<snip>

>Now let's say that I had thousands of message objects in a single document 
>and I wanted to use this to get the numerical points for each message 
>objects start and end points.
>
>put the offsets(myString, "<message>" into zap1
>put the offsets(myString, "</message>" into zap2
>
>now if I use this same function for:
>put the offsets(myString, "<soWhat>" into soWhatList
>
>Let's say that I get ten hits for "<soWhat>" and they occur at several
>numerical locations that turn out to be in message objects 20, 50, 60, 77, 
>200, etc...
>What I do now is parse all 1000 message objects and check each one for the 
>existence of the "<soWhat>" element.
>
>What I would like to do is just go to the ten message objects numerical 
>start and end points and parse them only. I do this by checking to see if 
>a "<soWhat>" number falls between a message objects' start and end points. 
>If that occurs then I would add that message to my smaller list of message 
>objects.
>
>So this: 40, 50, 60, 70 would be used on this:
>
>5, 15, 25, 35, 45, 55, 65, 75, 85, 95, to select items 4,5,6, and 7
>
>the first item 40 happens just after 35 in the larger list at the forth item
>the second item 50 happens just after 45 in the larger list at the fifth item
>the third item 60 happens just after 55 in the larger list at the sixth item
>the forth item 70 happens just after 65 in the larger list at the seventh item
>
>If I know the item number I'm interested in then I can use the value found 
>at that item to get that object. This would be a much faster process than 
>looping through every object to see if it has the secondary object of interest.

The fine details will depend on what (implicit) knowledge you have about 
the data at this point in the algorithm (such as - are the message start 
and message ends already known to match, can they be nested, are there gaps 
between one end and the next start, can soWhat's appear in those gaps, etc.)

But allowing for some fine tuning to adjust for that knowledge, I see no 
reason why you can't do something along the lines of  (excuse the C-like 
notation :-)

  put 1 into nextSoWhat
  put 1 into baseStart
  put 1 into baseEnd
  repeat forever
      if nextSoWhat > the number of items in soWhat then exit repeat
      put item nextSoWhat of soWhat into tLook
      -- find the start of this message
      put binarySearch(zap1, baseStart, len(zap1), tLook) into thisStart
      put thisStart into baseStart
      -- find matching end
      put binarySearch(zap2, baseEnd, len(sap2), tLook) into thisEnd
      put thisEnd into baseEnd
      -- add this message to the list to be processed
      put thisStart after theStartList
      -- now check if there are multiple soWhat's in this message
     repeat forever
        put nextSoWhat+1 into nextSoWhat
        if nextSoWhat > len(soWhat) then exit repeat
        if item nextSoWhat of soWhat > item thisEnd of zap2 then exit repeat
     end repat
  end repeat

Note that if the data is known to have matched start - end messages, you 
don't need the second binary search - you can simply use the same index 
into zap2.

This does K binary searches (or K*2) when there are K messages in the 
result, plus it scans each soWhat within the same message, and the binary 
searches are increasingly fast, because after the first one you don't need 
to start at 1, you start the binary search at the last one found.

btw - if the number of soWhats was much larger than the number of messages 
(which it could be in the abstract case), then instead of scanning the 
soWhat list, you'd turn around and binarySearch(soWhat, nextSoWhat, 
len(soWhat), item thisEnd of zap2)  to very quickly pass over multiple 
soWhat's in the same message without scanning each one.

-- Alex.

From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Aug 22 23:42:45 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:42:45 -0400
Subject: simple libSMTP send example, help
In-Reply-To: <20040822043324.9FA219300CF@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040822043324.9FA219300CF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200408222342.AA42451485@unitz.ca>

using your existing smtp will usually work, as not too many servers are 
secure.. some networks (sympatico.ca in canada for example) will not 
allow their users to use an external smtp server..

what you many want to look at in the example stack is the DNS code.. when 
the user is connected to the internet, you can use their email address to 
do a dns look-up of their smtp server..

-Sean

ps.. sorry i didn't answer your personal email, but i just got back



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 23 01:39:34 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:39:34 -0700
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823023845.02ec6e20@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <D0963D62-F4C6-11D8-877A-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Sunday, August 22, 2004, at 07:25 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> binarySearch

Alex,

I'm either missing a custom made function or you are using some kind of 
undocumented feature.

Mark


From j.tangen at unsw.edu.au  Mon Aug 23 03:28:36 2004
From: j.tangen at unsw.edu.au (Jason Tangen)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:28:36 +1000
Subject: switching between movies
Message-ID: <0BF10813-F4D6-11D8-A62A-000D93521362@unsw.edu.au>

I have two movies (both 640x480, 240 frames, ~2MB each).  I want to 
allow the user to click a button to switch back and forth between the 
two without delay.  Right now - I'm using the following strategy:

on keydown key
   if key = space then
     put the currentTime of player "A" into Atime
     set lockscreen to true
     hide player "A"
     set the currentTime of player "B" to Atime
     show player "B"
     start player "B"
     set lockscreen to false
   else pass keyDown
end keydown

...but this results in a rather noticeable delay between the clips.  I 
found that setting alwaysBuffer to false helps, but not much.  I tried 
importing the clip - but the videoPlayer doesn't allow you to set the 
current frame or time.  I thought about frame-based animation or 
animated gifs, but animated gifs seems rather memory intensive 
(especially for 240 frames!)

Any suggestions?

Jason


From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Aug 23 04:44:09 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:44:09 +0100
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <D0963D62-F4C6-11D8-877A-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823023845.02ec6e20@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823094043.02ef3c40@mail.tweedly.net>

At 22:39 22/08/2004 -0700, Mark Brownell wrote:


>On Sunday, August 22, 2004, at 07:25 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>>binarySearch
>
>Alex,
>
>I'm either missing a custom made function or you are using some kind of 
>undocumented feature.

Two messages back in this thread, I said  " .if you have [thousands], then 
I would try out a binary search ..."
meaning "write a binary search function and try it out".  No undocumented 
features here.

Now that I'm interested (fatal for me), I'm going to try it myself - so 
look for a post from me later today with a simple binarysearch function, 
and some timing results.

-- Alex.

From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Aug 23 05:15:14 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:15:14 +0100
Subject: RevCopyPackage?
Message-ID: <F1386916-F4E4-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

I'm building a helper script that takes a Rev standalone build and gets 
it ready for my "create an installer" step (copies to the right folder, 
renames various files, adds the readme and license, etc.), but I'm 
stuck on the step where I copy the OSX package.

In the archives Monte mentions an undocumented revCopyPackage command, 
but I can't seem to get it to work.

I want to copy the Mac OSX build, and rename it at the same time.  
Here's my code:

put "/Builds/MacOSX/Web Photos Pro" into fromPackage

put "/Installers/MacOSX/Web Photos Pro 1.0b10/Web Photos Pro 
1.0b10.app" into toPackage

revCopyPackage fromPackage, toPackage

the result returns 1 which is a bit unhelpful.  Has anyone successfully 
used this command?

Thanks,
-- Frank


Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/


From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Aug 23 05:43:50 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:43:50 +0100
Subject: revCopyFile doesn't copy file type and creator?
Message-ID: <F060862C-F4E8-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Anyone else notice that revCopyFile doesn't copy the Mac file type and 
creator?

RR 2.2, Mac OS X

-- Frank

Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 23 10:12:49 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 07:12:49 -0700
Subject: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823094043.02ef3c40@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <8364402A-F50E-11D8-AAE7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>

On Monday, August 23, 2004, at 01:44 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Two messages back in this thread, I said  " .if you have [thousands], 
> then I would try out a binary search ..."
> meaning "write a binary search function and try it out".  No 
> undocumented features here.
>
> Now that I'm interested (fatal for me), I'm going to try it myself - 
> so look for a post from me later today with a simple binarysearch 
> function, and some timing results.
>
> -- Alex.

Here is the origin of my interest if you are interested.

-- put getElements("<record>", "</record>", tStringVar) into theArray

function getElements tStartTag, tEndTag, StringToSearch
   put empty into tArray
   put 0 into tStart1
   put 0 into tStart2
   put 1 into tElementNum
   put the number of chars in tStartTag into dChars
   repeat
     put offset(tStartTag,StringToSearch,tStart1) into tNum1
     put (tNum1 + tStart1) into tStart1
     if tNum1 < 1 then exit repeat
     put offset(tEndTag,StringToSearch,tStart2) into tNum2
     put (tNum2 + tStart2) into tStart2
     if tNum2 < 1 then exit repeat
     --if tNum2 < tNum1 then exit repeat
     put char (tStart1 + dChars) to (tStart2 - 1) of StringToSearch into 
zapped
     put zapped into tArray[tElementNum]
     add 1 to tElementNum
   end repeat
   return tArray
end getElements

Mark


From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Aug 23 11:02:48 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:02:48 +0100
Subject: Binary search : was Re: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823094043.02ef3c40@mail.tweedly.net>
References: <D0963D62-F4C6-11D8-877A-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20040823023845.02ec6e20@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823132813.02f91c88@mail.tweedly.net>

At 09:44 23/08/2004 +0100, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>Now that I'm interested (fatal for me), I'm going to try it myself - so 
>look for a post from me later today with a simple binarysearch function, 
>and some timing results.

Mark, there's good news and bad news. :-)

The good news is that Transcript again amazes me with its great performance 
at chunk expression manipulation; it can iterate through the lines (or 
items) of a variable VERY quickly.

The bad news is that it is (relatively) slow at accessing individual lines 
(or items).

So the benefits of a binary search are counterbalanced by the slow access 
to the individual lines.

Note - for this purpose, you NEED to have your offsets stored as lines, not 
items, because if you try to put 1 million items into a variable you'll run 
into the limit on the number of characters in a line.
(took me a while to spot that one - couldn't figure out why I was creating 
1 million items but there were only about 9500 of them when I was done !)

Here's the test I did :
  - each offset is a value between 1 and 100 million.
  - create a list of 1 million offsets (random integers in that range)
              (this took 9 seconds)
  - sort that list
               (took 40 seconds !!)
  - linear search for the offset immediately below a random offset
              10 times, average of 1.3 seconds
  - binary search for same
               10 times, average of 1.25 seconds

I would put the test stack up on RevOnline - but I haven't succeeded in 
activating my account there yet - in the meantime, it's at 
http://www.tweedly.net/RunRev/Binary%20Search.rev if you want to look at it.

The binary search actually does better in smaller searches (400 ms versus 
750 ms for an average search in 100,000 offsets) - but not really enough 
benefit to be worth the extra complexity.

Not surprisingly, putting the offset list into an array is much slower.

So - unless one of the experienced Transcipters has some tricks up their 
sleeve, I think you're stuck with a linear search.

The good news is that the linear search isn't too slow, and you can do any 
number of "SoWhat"s in a single scan - so you're looking at maybe 2 seconds 
to extract the relevant thousands of messages from million+ total messages.

However, to do this you'll need to put the logic into a single loop, you 
won't be able to put the linear search into a separate function.

btw - just for comparison, and to make sure I had the logic right, I tried 
it in another popular scripting language I am familiar with;  the linear 
search is a bit faster than the Transcript version - but the binary search 
runs approx 1000 times as fast as the linear one - it does the binary 
search of 1 million items in < 1 millisecond.

Are you all *sure* we don't need numeric-indexed arrays or numeric-indexed 
lists ?

-- Alex.

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 23 11:06:06 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:06:06 -0700
Subject: Binary search : was Re: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823132813.02f91c88@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <F54DD2FA-F515-11D8-AAE7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Monday, August 23, 2004, at 08:02 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Are you all *sure* we don't need numeric-indexed arrays or 
> numeric-indexed lists ?
>
> -- Alex.

I'm sure that if I get this as a feature upgrade, (see below) that I 
will be able to get enough speed out of my apps that the user will not 
notice the delay that exists now. As far as the need for the millions 
of searches I would look into an external because that would be best 
for that application's purposes.

"On Wednesday, August 18, 2004, at 03:10 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:

> The one of most interest is the Boyer-Moore algorithm as this is 
> reputed
> to be the fastest.
>
> So, one idea is to implement a function:
>   matchGlobal(stringToSearch, token)
> returning a list of all indices in stringToSearch of token.
>
> e.g.
>   get matchGlobal("<a>foo</a><a>bar</a><a>baz</a>", "<a>")
> would give
>   it[1] = 1
>   it[2] = 10
>   it[3] = 20."

Thanks for your interest,

Mark


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 23 11:25:07 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:25:07 -0700
Subject: Binary search : was Re: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823132813.02f91c88@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <9D97E898-F518-11D8-AAE7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Monday, August 23, 2004, at 08:02 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Note - for this purpose, you NEED to have your offsets stored as 
> lines, not items, because if you try to put 1 million items into a 
> variable you'll run into the limit on the number of characters in a 
> line.
> (took me a while to spot that one - couldn't figure out why I was 
> creating 1 million items but there were only about 9500 of them when I 
> was done !)

I discovered this problem in my blowfish version. I used comma & space 
to create items that could wrap so that the line length issue was 
eliminated.

Mark


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 23 11:30:18 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:30:18 -0700
Subject: Binary search : was Re: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823132813.02f91c88@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <56D32B58-F519-11D8-AAE7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Monday, August 23, 2004, at 08:02 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

>
> I would put the test stack up on RevOnline - but I haven't succeeded 
> in activating my account there yet - in the meantime, it's at 
> http://www.tweedly.net/RunRev/Binary%20Search.rev if you want to look 
> at it.

Nice example. I love the Transcript syntax "needle" "haystack"  in your 
search functions.

Mark


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug 23 11:14:36 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:14:36 -0400
Subject: Binary search : was Re: shilling for my feature request [1926]
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040823132813.02f91c88@mail.tweedly.net>
References: <D0963D62-F4C6-11D8-877A-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040823023845.02ec6e20@mail.tweedly.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040823132813.02f91c88@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <2559208C-F517-11D8-8502-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 23, 2004, at 11:02 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Are you all *sure* we don't need numeric-indexed arrays or 
> numeric-indexed lists ?

Very funny.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Aug 23 11:43:23 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:43:23 -0500
Subject: revCopyFile doesn't copy file type and creator?
In-Reply-To: <F060862C-F4E8-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BD4F7ACB.45F3%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/23/04 4:43 AM, "Frank Leahy" <frank at backtalk.com> wrote:

> Anyone else notice that revCopyFile doesn't copy the Mac file type and
> creator?

Yes, I use the 'ditto' command through shell. Depending on your OS, you do
this:

10.3 or later:

  ditto --rsrc <pathToFile> <pathToDestFolder>

10.2 and earlier:

  ditto -rsrc <pathToFile> <pathToDestFolder>

Note the extra hyphen (-) for 10.3.

Because I don't like to use quotes at the UNIX command line, I use this
function to return a properly escaped path:

function FormatPath pPath
  put "\" & space & quote & "'`<>!;()[]?#$^&*=" into tSpecialChars
  repeat for each char tChar in tSpecialChars
    replace tChar with ("\" & tChar) in pPath
  end repeat
  return pPath
end FormatPath 

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug 23 11:50:37 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:50:37 -0700
Subject: Edit menu recipe?
In-Reply-To: <4129228E.6010401@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <3137E639-F2A3-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<4126198C.4050605@hyperactivesw.com> <4126211A.1090308@fourthworld.com>
	<41266C54.7080900@hyperactivesw.com> <412697ED.7070900@fourthworld.com>
	<4129228E.6010401@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <412A124D.7040402@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 8/20/04 7:31 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Yes, in older, slower xTalks one might get a noticeable difference 
>> between "do" and the natural message path.
>>
>> But it's a whole other world with Transcript -- this script tests 
>> timing of both the natural message path and the "do" command:
> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
>> So yes, using the do command is slower, but only by about 0.003ms.
>>
>> Given that the menu script is responding to a user action and no user 
>> will be faster than 0.003ms, there's no perceptable savings to the 
>> system's performance, but using do can offer immediate savings for 
>> developer productivity.
> 
> The "lost" productivity in the script I submitted consists of typing an 
> extra 5 words, which doesn't slow me down much.

There's no disputing tastes.  Those extra words added up for me when I 
was a one-handed typist for a year, but hopefully that's something few 
will endure.

My main point was just that I didn't want to leave folks with the 
impression that using "do" was a mistake.  Sometimes it's very useful, 
and in Transcript the penalty is imperceptible, almost immeasurable.

> Continuing the curmudgeonliness: I'll keep doing it my way, I think. I 
> am of the school that says loading the compiler unnecessaily is poor 
> programming practice. A similar example would be in using unquoted 
> literals; it works fine in many cases and doesn't really slow things 
> down that much, but I don't use use them because they too are a poor 
> habit to get into.

Fully agreed on unquoted literals: in addition to the reason you mention 
there are two others:

- it's easier to skim code for strings when they're quoted

- unquoted literals break when explicitVars is on

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug 23 11:53:30 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:53:30 -0700
Subject: Rev 2.5b2 stable enough?
In-Reply-To: <0D5A8116-F462-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <BD4D6B18.4560%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<C8FE217C-F3F4-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<0D5A8116-F462-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <412A12FA.1060002@fourthworld.com>

Marian Petrides wrote:

> I'm starting to prototype a new app and would like to do it using Rev 
> 2.5 if possible (mainly to increase my familiarity with the changes in 
> 2.5--none of its new features are required for this app).  My sense is 
> that 2.5b2 is stable enough to use for this purpose but I wonder what 
> others think.
> 
> Should I just stick to 2.1.2 for now or prototype in 2.5b2?

Based on experience with beta from a variety of vendors, the rules in my 
shop are:

- be prepared for new features to be absent from the final release
- be prepared for behavioral changes of new features between
   beta and final
- never ship any commercial work with a beta

But if you're only prototyping at the moment, we could all benefit from 
having as much work as possible being done with the beta release, so 
please do use it when you can.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From userev at canelasoftware.com  Mon Aug 23 11:55:30 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:55:30 -0700
Subject: switching between movies
In-Reply-To: <0BF10813-F4D6-11D8-A62A-000D93521362@unsw.edu.au>
References: <0BF10813-F4D6-11D8-A62A-000D93521362@unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <DC0D1012-F51C-11D8-BA95-000D93373366@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 23, 2004, at 12:28 AM, Jason Tangen wrote:

> I have two movies (both 640x480, 240 frames, ~2MB each).  I want to 
> allow the user to click a button to switch back and forth between the 
> two without delay.  Right now - I'm using the following strategy:
>
> on keydown key
>   if key = space then
>     put the currentTime of player "A" into Atime
>     set lockscreen to true
>     hide player "A"
>     set the currentTime of player "B" to Atime
>     show player "B"
>     start player "B"
>     set lockscreen to false
>   else pass keyDown
> end keydown
>
> ...but this results in a rather noticeable delay between the clips.  I 
> found that setting alwaysBuffer to false helps, but not much.  I tried 
> importing the clip - but the videoPlayer doesn't allow you to set the 
> current frame or time.  I thought about frame-based animation or 
> animated gifs, but animated gifs seems rather memory intensive 
> (especially for 240 frames!)
>

Hi Jason,

I modified your program slightly.  The main thing I noticed was to take 
out the lock screen.  This made things pretty snappy.  The faster the 
computer, the faster the transition.  I put this code at the card 
level.

on keydown thekey
   put thekey
   if thekey = "1" then
     stop player "B"
     put the currentTime of player "B" into Atime
     hide player "B"
     set the currentTime of player "A" to Atime
     show player "A"
     start player "A"
   end if

   if thekey = "2" then
     stop player "A"
     put the currentTime of player "A" into Atime
     hide player "A"
     set the currentTime of player "B" to Atime
     show player "B"
     start player "B"
   end if
   pass keyDown
end keydown


-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 23 12:02:30 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:02:30 -0400
Subject: Rev 2.5b2 stable enough?
In-Reply-To: <412A12FA.1060002@fourthworld.com>
References: <BD4D6B18.4560%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<C8FE217C-F3F4-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<0D5A8116-F462-11D8-AC2F-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<412A12FA.1060002@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <D6276895-F51D-11D8-A835-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

My question was mainly about the risk of introducing a bug through use 
of the beta that I only discover later when the product is nearly done, 
long after it has been moved to the release version of 2.5.

Oh, well, I am courageous, bold and daring (and maybe a little bit 
stupid).  What's more I am not facing any special deadline on this work 
so...

 >>we could all benefit from having as much work as possible being done 
with the beta release, so please do use it when you can.

I will continue to use the beta ;-0    Of course,  if I have to redo 
work as a consequence, then Yves can always say "I told you so."

Thanks.

Marian
On Aug 23, 2004, at 11:53 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> I'm starting to prototype a new app and would like to do it using Rev 
>> 2.5 if possible (mainly to increase my familiarity with the changes 
>> in 2.5--none of its new features are required for this app).  My 
>> sense is that 2.5b2 is stable enough to use for this purpose but I 
>> wonder what others think.
>> Should I just stick to 2.1.2 for now or prototype in 2.5b2?
>
> Based on experience with beta from a variety of vendors, the rules in 
> my shop are:
>
> - be prepared for new features to be absent from the final release
> - be prepared for behavioral changes of new features between
>   beta and final
> - never ship any commercial work with a beta
>
> But if you're only prototyping at the moment, we could all benefit 
> from having as much work as possible being done with the beta release, 
> so please do use it when you can.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From Meitnik at aol.com  Mon Aug 23 12:10:05 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:10:05 EDT
Subject: RevCopyFine and long filename
Message-ID: <8b.12ffddfa.2e5b70dd@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/23/04 12:05:10 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> Anyone else notice that revCopyFile doesn't copy the Mac file type and
> creator?
> -- I had BZ that if a file name is longer than 28 chars, setting the 
type/creator fails, fyi. Check to see if file name is longer than 28 chars.

Andrew


From trevor at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug 23 12:39:22 2004
From: trevor at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:39:22 -0700
Subject: [OT] Extracting chapter track timecodes?
In-Reply-To: <4122A4ED.3050508@fourthworld.com>
References: <4122A4ED.3050508@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <FC801C82-F522-11D8-ABF8-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

Richard,

I just got back from vacation and am going over emails.  Did you ever 
find a solution for this?  If not then I can possibly help you with 
something depending on what your end goal is.

Concerning the user group meeting, are we any closer to a date yet?

Trevor

On Aug 17, 2004, at 5:38 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I know how to import chapter track info into QT movies using QT 
> Player, but anyone have a recipe for exporting that info from movies 
> that already have chapters?
>
> TIA -
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Aug 23 14:14:48 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:14:48 +0200
Subject: Rev 2.5b2 stable enough?
In-Reply-To: <412A12FA.1060002@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEDJGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

I dont know if this has happened to Richard but

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/23/1653229&tid=109&tid=1

is worth checking out regarding new releases...

FYI, I've released 2 softwares built with 2.5b1
and 2 were finished with it no prob. Most problems
were with the IDE. 2.5b2 and executables were not
tested though. 

if that helps...
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Richard
> Gaskin
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 17:54
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Rev 2.5b2 stable enough?
> 
> 
> Marian Petrides wrote:
> 
> > I'm starting to prototype a new app and would like to do it using Rev 
> > 2.5 if possible (mainly to increase my familiarity with the changes in 
> > 2.5--none of its new features are required for this app).  My sense is 
> > that 2.5b2 is stable enough to use for this purpose but I wonder what 
> > others think.
> > 
> > Should I just stick to 2.1.2 for now or prototype in 2.5b2?
> 
> Based on experience with beta from a variety of vendors, the rules in my 
> shop are:
> 
> - be prepared for new features to be absent from the final release
> - be prepared for behavioral changes of new features between
>    beta and final
> - never ship any commercial work with a beta
> 
> But if you're only prototyping at the moment, we could all benefit from 
> having as much work as possible being done with the beta release, so 
> please do use it when you can.
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   ___________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Aug 23 15:01:55 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:01:55 -0700
Subject: [OT] Extracting chapter track timecodes?
In-Reply-To: <FC801C82-F522-11D8-ABF8-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <4122A4ED.3050508@fourthworld.com>
	<FC801C82-F522-11D8-ABF8-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <E694F440-F536-11D8-ABF8-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

Oops.  Everyone except for Richard can pretty much ignore this one.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


On Aug 23, 2004, at 9:39 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> Richard,
>
> I just got back from vacation and am going over emails.  Did you ever 
> find a solution for this?  If not then I can possibly help you with 
> something depending on what your end goal is.
>
> Concerning the user group meeting, are we any closer to a date yet?
>
> Trevor
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug 23 15:13:40 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:13:40 -0500
Subject: Silent beeps
Message-ID: <412A41E4.6050803@hyperactivesw.com>

Is it just me, or is the "beep" command broken on MacOS 10.2.8? It does 
appear to work on my OS 10.2.3 machine.

I get beeps from the Finder, but not from the engine using either Rev or 
MC. I've reset the playloudness but it doesn't help. I get the same 
results with both Rev 2.2.1 and the new 2.5 beta.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From revlist at cableone.net  Mon Aug 23 15:22:11 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:22:11 -0600
Subject: Silent beeps
In-Reply-To: <412A41E4.6050803@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c48946$7ddb5a20$64fea8c0@chris1>

Hi Jacque,

Worked okay for me under 10.2.8, running both Rev 2.2.1 and 2.5b2.

Chris Sheffield
Software Developer
Read Naturally


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 1:14 PM
> To: Revolution Mailing List
> Subject: Silent beeps
> 
> Is it just me, or is the "beep" command broken on MacOS 10.2.8? It does
> appear to work on my OS 10.2.3 machine.
> 
> I get beeps from the Finder, but not from the engine using either Rev or
> MC. I've reset the playloudness but it doesn't help. I get the same
> results with both Rev 2.2.1 and the new 2.5 beta.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004
> 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004
 


From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Aug 23 15:38:26 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:38:26 +0200
Subject: Silent beeps
In-Reply-To: <412A41E4.6050803@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <412A41E4.6050803@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <00EAC83A-F53C-11D8-9051-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hello Jacque,

Don't have MacOS 10.2.8 there anymore but only the 10.3.5. Just could 
test the beep command from the messagebox under 2.2.1 and 2.5b2 and all 
worked fine.

Don't know if that can help, but...

Kind Regards,

Pierre

Le 23 ao?t 04, ? 21:13, J. Landman Gay a ?crit :

> Is it just me, or is the "beep" command broken on MacOS 10.2.8? It 
> does appear to work on my OS 10.2.3 machine.
>
> I get beeps from the Finder, but not from the engine using either Rev 
> or MC. I've reset the playloudness but it doesn't help. I get the same 
> results with both Rev 2.2.1 and the new 2.5 beta.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
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100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

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From SimPLsol at aol.com  Mon Aug 23 17:37:49 2004
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:37:49 EDT
Subject: Silent beeps
Message-ID: <19f.28c140b2.2e5bbdad@aol.com>

Using OS 10.3.5 I get a beep when I enter "beep" in the message box.
However I noticed this strange thing: if I enter "beep 4" I get three beeps; 
"beep 5" gives 4 beeps, etc. Strange?
Paul Looney

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Aug 23 17:46:27 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:46:27 -0500
Subject: Silent beeps
In-Reply-To: <19f.28c140b2.2e5bbdad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD4FCFE3.4640%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/23/04 4:37 PM, "SimPLsol at aol.com" <SimPLsol at aol.com> wrote:

> Using OS 10.3.5 I get a beep when I enter "beep" in the message box.
> However I noticed this strange thing: if I enter "beep 4" I get three beeps;
> "beep 5" gives 4 beeps, etc. Strange?

Happens on 10.3.4 too... I think it's the engine and not the OS. Paul, can
you log it as a bug in Bugzilla (if you haven't already)?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From revlist at cableone.net  Mon Aug 23 18:00:07 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:00:07 -0600
Subject: Silent beeps
In-Reply-To: <BD4FCFE3.4640%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <003d01c4895c$8ddcf080$64fea8c0@chris1>

Actually, I think this issue is explained in the docs.  Something to do with
the beeps "overlapping" each other.

Chris Sheffield
Software Developer
Read Naturally


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:46 PM
> To: Use Revolution List
> Subject: Re: Silent beeps
> 
> On 8/23/04 4:37 PM, "SimPLsol at aol.com" <SimPLsol at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> > Using OS 10.3.5 I get a beep when I enter "beep" in the message box.
> > However I noticed this strange thing: if I enter "beep 4" I get three
> beeps;
> > "beep 5" gives 4 beeps, etc. Strange?
> 
> Happens on 10.3.4 too... I think it's the engine and not the OS. Paul, can
> you log it as a bug in Bugzilla (if you haven't already)?
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004
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From lestond at lpsoftware.com  Mon Aug 23 18:02:29 2004
From: lestond at lpsoftware.com (Leston Drake)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:02:29 -0600
Subject: problem running from a CD on Mac
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040823155122.00d47b48@mail.xmission.com>

Hi all,

I'm really in a bind, so any help on this will be greatly appreciated!!!....

I've got a standalone application. It is a slide-show type app, with about 
10 pages, lots of graphics. Has a background graphic that is grouped (a 
singe image in the group) so it can be placed on each page at layer 1. I 
create a standalone file (on the Mac). Test it and it runs fine from the 
mac's hard drive.

However, if I burn the files to a CD, everything works except that the 
background image (its about 40 k in size) does not show up. This is the one 
that is grouped. It's missing on each page. I created my own kind of 
message box to query the app when it is running from the CD, and it says 
that it is visible, in the proper location, etc.

If I then copy the files from the CD over to the hard drive, it runs 
perfectly, the background image is visible as it should be.

We've got a similar program that works the same way (different content, 
images) but it has no problems.

Any ideas would be very welcome.

TIA
Leston



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug 23 18:14:06 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:14:06 -0500
Subject: Silent beeps
In-Reply-To: <00EAC83A-F53C-11D8-9051-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
References: <412A41E4.6050803@hyperactivesw.com>
	<00EAC83A-F53C-11D8-9051-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <412A6C2E.4070403@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/23/04 2:38 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
 >
 > Don't have MacOS 10.2.8 there anymore but only the 10.3.5. Just could
 > test the beep command from the messagebox under 2.2.1 and 2.5b2 and all
 > worked fine.

Yes, it works for me in 10.3.5 too, just not in 10.2.8. But thanks to 
you and Chris and Paul for double-checking. I don't like to enter 
Bugzilla reports until I know the problem really is with Revolution.

I can't figure out what's stopping the beeps though. It has been silent 
for some weeks, persists through restarts and relaunches, and isn't 
related to the system volume (which is on.)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From jan.decroos at groepvanroey.be  Mon Aug 23 18:19:20 2004
From: jan.decroos at groepvanroey.be (Jan Decroos)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 00:19:20 +0200
Subject: revCopyFile doesn't copy file type and creator?
In-Reply-To: <20040823160036.CF735930111@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040823160036.CF735930111@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <fc.0073fc460013640e3b9aca003d1188f3.13642a@groepvanroey.be>

use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes:
>Anyone else notice that revCopyFile doesn't copy the Mac file type and 
>creator?
>
>RR 2.2, Mac OS X


Seems to be fixed for b1

see :
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=701

regards,
Jan


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug 23 18:21:09 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:21:09 -0500
Subject: Silent beeps
In-Reply-To: <BD4FCFE3.4640%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD4FCFE3.4640%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <412A6DD5.4010205@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/23/04 4:46 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 8/23/04 4:37 PM, "SimPLsol at aol.com" <SimPLsol at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Using OS 10.3.5 I get a beep when I enter "beep" in the message box.
>>However I noticed this strange thing: if I enter "beep 4" I get three beeps;
>>"beep 5" gives 4 beeps, etc. Strange?
> 
> 
> Happens on 10.3.4 too... I think it's the engine and not the OS. Paul, can
> you log it as a bug in Bugzilla (if you haven't already)?

Not a bug. From the docs:

  Cross-platform note:  Windows and OS X do not execute the beep command 
if it's issued while a beep is playing. This means that if you specify a 
numberOfTimes on a Windows or OS X system, the user might hear fewer 
beeps because not all of them are sent to the speaker. To ensure that 
the user hears a specific number of beeps, use a loop with a wait 
command (where the wait time is at least as long as the beep sound's 
duration) after each beep

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 23 18:22:26 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:22:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <4128DE07.4090209@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <20040823222226.85630.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
wrote:
> that's a QT specific activation?
> 
> Yes, I think so. Though you could also set the
> playLoudness property with Transcript .

thanks, i didn't know that.

why not run this info through the list?
might stir up a flurry of interest
or at least spark a response!

if MIDI can be precisely linked with send and
move graphics work, there might be more interest.

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Aug 23 18:28:19 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:28:19 -0500
Subject: Silent beeps
In-Reply-To: <412A6DD5.4010205@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BD4FD9B3.4651%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/23/04 5:21 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

> On 8/23/04 4:46 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
> 
>> On 8/23/04 4:37 PM, "SimPLsol at aol.com" <SimPLsol at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> Using OS 10.3.5 I get a beep when I enter "beep" in the message box.
>>> However I noticed this strange thing: if I enter "beep 4" I get three beeps;
>>> "beep 5" gives 4 beeps, etc. Strange?
>> 
>> 
>> Happens on 10.3.4 too... I think it's the engine and not the OS. Paul, can
>> you log it as a bug in Bugzilla (if you haven't already)?
> 
> Not a bug. From the docs:
> 
>   Cross-platform note:  Windows and OS X do not execute the beep command
> if it's issued while a beep is playing. This means that if you specify a
> numberOfTimes on a Windows or OS X system, the user might hear fewer
> beeps because not all of them are sent to the speaker. To ensure that
> the user hears a specific number of beeps, use a loop with a wait
> command (where the wait time is at least as long as the beep sound's
> duration) after each beep

Thanks, Jacque... and I just tested it in SuperCard on OS X and it's the
same thing, so it's definitely an OS issue.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From SimPLsol at aol.com  Mon Aug 23 18:32:36 2004
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:32:36 EDT
Subject: Silent beeps
Message-ID: <155.3cf30d48.2e5bca84@aol.com>

I'd say this IS a bug, a documented bug, but still a bug.
If the beep command accepts parameters, it should be able to handle those 
parameters - without the user having to consult the documentation or exception 
reports - or, worse yet, having to program around the bug. If a wait is required 
for beep parameters, it should be built into the beep command.
I think there is way too much stuff like this in the current Revolution; 
things that don't work logically, or obviously, but get explained away in the 
documentation.
Paul Looney

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 23 18:45:08 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:45:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: using "do" forces the compiler to run
In-Reply-To: <41266C54.7080900@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <20040823224508.7999.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
wrote:
> On 8/20/04 11:04 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
> > If one's picky about minimizing typing,
> because most of those are 
> > handled by the engine you can use the case
> block's fall-through feature 
> > to trim the code -- this version also handles
> "Select All" for objects:
> > 
> > on menuPick which
> >    switch which
> >    case "Cut"
> >    case "Copy"
> >    case "Paste"
> >    case "Undo"
> >      do which
> 
> Picky purist point: using "do" forces the
> compiler to run and can slow 
> the script, which is why I use the redundant
> form.

any more (is compiling) tips re: 
send, move,  wait, waiting lock etc?
i am trying to get precise movements
to set intervals
with a +- 1 millisecond tolerance.

send is working well,
move varies 10-20 milliseconds.
maybe the compiler is a factor?

Thank You,

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________
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From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug 23 18:47:05 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:47:05 -0500
Subject: Silent beeps
In-Reply-To: <BD4FD9B3.4651%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD4FD9B3.4651%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <412A73E9.4070207@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/23/04 5:28 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Thanks, Jacque... and I just tested it in SuperCard on OS X and it's the
> same thing, so it's definitely an OS issue.

So I solved two in one day -- I just found the cause of my silent beep 
problem too. There is a difference on Mac OS X between the system beep 
and the warning beep. They have different settings in the user prefs. I 
was testing with the Finder sound menu, which works fine, only it is 
using the system volume. Meanwhile, the warning beep was set to volume 0 
in the system prefs, and Rev's "beep" command triggers the warning 
sound. Duh.

I know I didn't reset this pref, but I think I'll just write it off as 
one of those mysterious things that go bump in the night.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug 23 18:48:19 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:48:19 -0500
Subject: Windows MIDI conversion question
In-Reply-To: <20040823222226.85630.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040823222226.85630.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <412A7433.2090009@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/23/04 5:22 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:

> --- "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>that's a QT specific activation?
>>
>>Yes, I think so. Though you could also set the
>>playLoudness property with Transcript .
> 
> 
> thanks, i didn't know that.
> 
> why not run this info through the list?

I think we have been. ;)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 23 18:51:39 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:51:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (number in parentheses) after the Message Watcher?
In-Reply-To: <4126211A.1090308@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20040823225139.67312.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>


what is the (number in parentheses)
after the Message Watcher?
there's nothing in the Help files.

Thank You,

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
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From SimPLsol at aol.com  Mon Aug 23 18:54:46 2004
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:54:46 EDT
Subject: Silent beeps
Message-ID: <c.314cabca.2e5bcfb6@aol.com>

Ken,
It is bug 2053.
Paul Looney

From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug 23 19:25:08 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:25:08 -1000
Subject: Standalone failure for Mac PPC 9.2
In-Reply-To: <D9B6AAC6-EFAA-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <64670436-EF44-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<p06110404bd460666fd05@[10.0.0.1]>
	<D9B6AAC6-EFAA-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <AC4BAACE-F55B-11D8-A248-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

More info on this:

I tried to open my HA Stack Player standalone, built for PPC, on my OSX 
machine. Of course, Classic started up first, but then, the standalone 
did not boot: no error msg. Same thing if Classic is up and running 
first.

Should standalones build for Mac PPC  run in the OSX Classic shell or 
not?

I'm having trouble getting anything to run on older Mac 9.2 machines... 
Today I'm going to copy the standalone to a CD and give that to a mac 
ppc user, just to eliminate .sit compression issues.

But, shouldn't it run in Classic? I'm thinking, perhaps the fact that 
it does not run in Classic shows there is a problem, which is also the 
cause for it's failure in 9.2.

I have these start ups in the stack script:

on preopenstack
   set the loc of this stack to the screenloc
   hide btn "Stack Index"
end preopenstack

on openstack
   put url "http://www.himalayanAcademy.com/runrev/versionControl.txt" 
into tCheckVersion

   If item 1 of line 1 of tCheckVersion = "HA Stack Player" then
     show button "Stack Index"
     if item 2 of tCheckVersion <> (the engineVersion of this stack) then
       upgradeNotice
     end if
   end if

end openStack

Could the attempt to access the net, should it fail, on 9.2, cause the 
application to lock up? (But, it's failing to boot in Classic even if I 
am connected)

If I disconnect from the network in OSX.. and boot the same stack... 
obviously it can't do an http GET, but it doesn't cause the app to  
lock up.

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org

On Aug 16, 2004, at 7:36 AM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Yes, it was compressed as .sit   but it unstuffs to the point of 
> appearing correctly on the desk top as  an unstuffed .rev file... then 
> unexpectedly quits on boot.. (in classic)
>
> Are you say that even if it unstuffs and outputs an apparently 
> unstuffed file that an old Stuffit could have created a bad file?... 
> OK, will just have to try it.
>
> As for Monte's and Andre's recommendations... it doesn't even get that 
> far..
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2004, at 8:37 PM, sims wrote:
>
>> How do I diagnose and solve this problem? I only need to focus on a) 
>> above for now (mac, classic PPC) because  the Windows user bailed on 
>> the project out of frustration...
>>
>>
>> Was it compressed as an ".sit"?
>> If so maybe an updated of stuffit is needed.
>>
>> atb
>> sims
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Aug 23 19:54:10 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:54:10 -0600
Subject: Silent beeps
In-Reply-To: <155.3cf30d48.2e5bca84@aol.com>
References: <155.3cf30d48.2e5bca84@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BA57AD3A-F55F-11D8-9CB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 23, 2004, at 4:32 PM, SimPLsol at aol.com wrote:

> I'd say this IS a bug, a documented bug, but still a bug.
> If the beep command accepts parameters, it should be able to handle 
> those
> parameters - without the user having to consult the documentation or 
> exception
> reports - or, worse yet, having to program around the bug. If a wait 
> is required
> for beep parameters, it should be built into the beep command.
> I think there is way too much stuff like this in the current 
> Revolution;
> things that don't work logically, or obviously, but get explained away 
> in the
> documentation.

I agree.

I can write a little handler to work correctly on multiple platforms.  
If I can do that, then RunRev can take care of the beep for different 
platforms.

Even so, the timing I get (when timing beeps) suggests that the bug is 
really something else.

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Aug 23 19:58:38 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:58:38 -0600
Subject: Silent beeps
In-Reply-To: <c.314cabca.2e5bcfb6@aol.com>
References: <c.314cabca.2e5bcfb6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5A69B2F8-F560-11D8-9CB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 23, 2004, at 4:54 PM, SimPLsol at aol.com wrote:

> It is bug 2053.

See also 1005 and especially 1690.

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Aug 23 21:35:48 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:35:48 -1000
Subject: Application-Doc/Stack Binding on Mac 
Message-ID: <ECCFED3A-F56D-11D8-81F4-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

OK, scenario:

I got a creator code from Apple: "haSp"
(Himalayan Academy Stack Player)

Open stack, open standalone builder  Rev 2.2.1

( as the SB in 2.5b2 is broken, for me anyway, always fails, on this 
same stack which builds fine in 2.2.1)

Enter "haSp" in the Application signature field and "STCK" into the 
document type field. Save standalone for mac OSX... build successful

Quit 2.21; switch to 2.5b1. Open stack (that I want to auto boot with 
the stand alone above)"Audio_Transcriber.rev"

Run this in msg box:

set the stackFileType of this stack to "haSpSTCK" result... nothing, 
assume successful prop set. Save.

run in msg box: "put the stackFiletype of this stack" result:

Message execution error:
Error description: Chunk: source is not a container

Make temp button in stack...

on mouseUp
   put the stackFiletype of this stack
end mouseUp

Throws up an error dialog. OK,  I assuming that despite errors, and in 
the absence of anyway to check, (how does one do the ResEdit thing 
these days in OSX? it's been years since I used it...) the prop was set 
as it should be.

Move my standalone to applications folder, restart machine.

now double click on Audio_Transcriber.rev in the hopes that "haSpSTCK" 
was in fact set properly... now it doesn't boot in my standalone and 
also doesn't boot Revolution (which it would normally do if the 
stackfiletype prop had never been set) instead I get an error dialog 
from the OS:

"This operation could not be completed. An unexpected error occurred 
(errod code -10660)" [OK]

Try another rev stack... double click.. Revolution boots as expected, 
all systems green.

Three questions:
1) what am I doing wrong? Related ?'s

Docs say: "To associate a file with your application, before you create 
the file, use the stackFileType property (for stack files created with 
the save command) or the fileType property (for all other files) to set 
the file's creator to the same four-character string you used for the 
application." How can you set a prop for a stack *before* you create it 
in Rev? And, what if it's already been created and  you want to assign 
it to your stand alone? Does it cease to be a revoSTCK? But if you open 
in the Rev IDE and save it, does rev reassign the stackFiletype to 
revoSTCK?  I can't find answers to this in the docs..

2) Tangential but related: What happened to the "distribution builder" 
option to output a stack, no as an executable standalone, but with 
inclusions in the stack itself--and, where one would have previously 
set the creator signature and document type for the stackfile (without 
including the engine)?

should I be using the stackFile services. I've never used that because 
i don't want the stand alone to be unhappy if those files are not 
present... it's just supposed to be an independent player."

Presently I have to ask all my users to boot the player first then open 
the stacks from inside the player, but that's not expected behavior of 
a professional app. Some of them forget and simply try to double click 
the stack and get the dialog box about not being able to find an 
application. etc.

(is this all carefully documented anywhere?)

3) I choose the sample icons for Rev "revApp.ico" assuming that since 
this is the OSX distribution of Rev that those should work but I don't 
get the pretty "R" icon. instead I get a generic "A" system icon.

This whole application binding thing would be ideal for a video 
tutorial. Anyone seen the Total Training series for Adobe apps? 
Expensive, but fantastic. One day maybe, Revolution will be there too.

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Mon Aug 23 21:53:03 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:23:03 +0930
Subject: Application-Doc/Stack Binding on Mac 
In-Reply-To: <ECCFED3A-F56D-11D8-81F4-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOECGEPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


>
>( as the SB in 2.5b2 is broken, for me anyway, always fails, on this
>same stack which builds fine in 2.2.1)

Have you reported this? If so I havent seen it.
>
>Enter "haSp" in the Application signature field and "STCK" into the
>document type field. Save standalone for mac OSX... build successful
>
>Quit 2.21; switch to 2.5b1. Open stack (that I want to auto boot with
>the stand alone above)"Audio_Transcriber.rev"
>
>Run this in msg box:
>
>set the stackFileType of this stack to "haSpSTCK" result... nothing,
>assume successful prop set. Save.
>
>run in msg box: "put the stackFiletype of this stack" result:

Please read the docs on the stackFileType property. It's global and you are
treating it as a stack property. You need to set the stackFileType then save
your stack.

Cheers

Monte


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Aug 23 22:55:17 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:55:17 -0600
Subject: using "do" forces the compiler to run
In-Reply-To: <20040823224508.7999.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040823224508.7999.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <079DC972-F579-11D8-9CB6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 23, 2004, at 4:45 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:

> any more (is compiling) tips re:
> send, move,  wait, waiting lock etc?
> i am trying to get precise movements
> to set intervals
> with a +- 1 millisecond tolerance.
>
> send is working well,
> move varies 10-20 milliseconds.
> maybe the compiler is a factor?

I think 'send', 'do', 'call', 'value()', 'merge()' and setting 'the 
script' will compile.

For improved timing with a send cycle, do the send for the next one at 
the start of the handler.  This is more precise but can be a problem if 
pendingMessages gets bogged down, so use only when needed.

If you need better than that, try getting there early and waiting 
around for the right time.

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Aug 23 23:34:04 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:34:04 +1000
Subject: problem running from a CD on Mac
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040823155122.00d47b48@mail.xmission.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040823155122.00d47b48@mail.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <725CB042-F57E-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> I've got a standalone application. It is a slide-show type app, with 
> about 10 pages, lots of graphics. Has a background graphic that is 
> grouped (a singe image in the group) so it can be placed on each page 
> at layer 1. I create a standalone file (on the Mac). Test it and it 
> runs fine from the mac's hard drive.
>
> However, if I burn the files to a CD, everything works except that the 
> background image (its about 40 k in size) does not show up. This is 
> the one that is grouped. It's missing on each page. I created my own 
> kind of message box to query the app when it is running from the CD, 
> and it says that it is visible, in the proper location, etc.
>
> If I then copy the files from the CD over to the hard drive, it runs 
> perfectly, the background image is visible as it should be.

You don't say whether the image is referenced or whether it has been 
imported into the stack. If it is referenced, then I would guess that 
the file path includes your hard disk name. Use your message box to 
check the filename of the image and see what you get then.

Cheers,
Sarah


From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Tue Aug 24 00:37:31 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:37:31 -0600
Subject: Attachments to revMail
Message-ID: <002701c48994$123e89b0$1002a8c0@BUMP>

I'm trying to add attachments to revMail but having no luck.  I tried using libEmail to do it, but I'm getting nothing but errors from libEmail.  Is there any way to do this?
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Aug 23 23:42:50 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:42:50 +1000
Subject: Attachments to revMail
In-Reply-To: <002701c48994$123e89b0$1002a8c0@BUMP>
References: <002701c48994$123e89b0$1002a8c0@BUMP>
Message-ID: <AC24B9B6-F57F-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Send yourself an email with an attachment, then look at the source of 
that email when it gets back to you. You will see that attachments are 
added to the body of the email in encoded form with specific dividers 
separating the various sections of the email.

While revMail has no attachments parameter, you can create your own 
attachment text and send it as part of the email body to revMail. If 
you would like more info, please let me know.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 24 Aug 2004, at 1:38 pm, Derek Bump wrote:

> I'm trying to add attachments to revMail but having no luck.  I tried 
> using libEmail to do it, but I'm getting nothing but errors from 
> libEmail.  Is there any way to do this?
>
>
> Derek Bump
> Dreamscape Software
> ____________________________________________
> Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
> http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Tue Aug 24 01:04:54 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:04:54 -0600
Subject: Attachments to revMail
References: <002701c48994$123e89b0$1002a8c0@BUMP>
	<AC24B9B6-F57F-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <000401c48998$10e2a660$1002a8c0@BUMP>

> While revMail has no attachments parameter, you can create your own 
> attachment text and send it as part of the email body to revMail. If 
> you would like more info, please let me know.

I was finally able to get libEmail to work correctly (I didn't know you had to remove the periods).  I added the encoded text to the message and was able to send it using revMail.  Unfortunatly when I got the message it came back as just test with the encoded attachment (as text) at the bottom of the email.

I then tried to write it to a file and then open the file "message.eml" in Windows.  It opened it as a normal message with no "Send" button.

Any ideas on how I can get this message to send through the default mail client (with attachments)?


Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com

From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 24 00:10:00 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 00:10:00 -0400
Subject: Attachments to revMail
In-Reply-To: <000401c48998$10e2a660$1002a8c0@BUMP>
References: <002701c48994$123e89b0$1002a8c0@BUMP>
	<AC24B9B6-F57F-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
	<000401c48998$10e2a660$1002a8c0@BUMP>
Message-ID: <776A9D82-F583-11D8-9429-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 24, 2004, at 1:04 AM, Derek Bump wrote:

> Any ideas on how I can get this message to send through the default 
> mail client (with attachments)?

On the Mac, I do it with AppleScript. I wrote my own because I also 
wanted to control the account and signature that was used. On 
Windows... don't know. VBscript on the shell or something?

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Tue Aug 24 01:14:43 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:14:43 -0600
Subject: Attachments to revMail
References: 	<002701c48994$123e89b0$1002a8c0@BUMP><AC24B9B6-F57F-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au><000401c48998$10e2a660$1002a8c0@BUMP>
	<776A9D82-F583-11D8-9429-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <002001c48999$44351e70$1002a8c0@BUMP>

> On the Mac, I do it with AppleScript. I wrote my own because I also 
> wanted to control the account and signature that was used. On 
> Windows... don't know. VBscript on the shell or something?

Heh, sometimes I wish I still had my Mac.  Unfortunatly I don't know any VBscript.  
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Attachments to revMail


> 
> On Aug 24, 2004, at 1:04 AM, Derek Bump wrote:
> 
> > Any ideas on how I can get this message to send through the default 
> > mail client (with attachments)?
> 
> On the Mac, I do it with AppleScript. I wrote my own because I also 
> wanted to control the account and signature that was used. On 
> Windows... don't know. VBscript on the shell or something?
> 
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Aug 24 01:04:03 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 00:04:03 -0500
Subject: Standalone failure for Mac PPC 9.2
In-Reply-To: <AC4BAACE-F55B-11D8-A248-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <64670436-EF44-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<p06110404bd460666fd05@[10.0.0.1]>
	<D9B6AAC6-EFAA-11D8-BB35-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<AC4BAACE-F55B-11D8-A248-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <412ACC43.6030201@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/23/04 6:25 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> More info on this:
> 
> I tried to open my HA Stack Player standalone, built for PPC, on my OSX 
> machine. Of course, Classic started up first, but then, the standalone 
> did not boot: no error msg. Same thing if Classic is up and running first.

Did it start to launch and then suddenly quit immediately, before the 
stack loaded? That happened to me once a long time ago. Turns out I had 
moved the color picker out of the Extensions folder, and the engine was 
hard-linked to it. When it couldn't find the color picker, it just quit 
without warning.

That's not to say that the color picker is your problem, but I know OS X 
moves a few extensions out of their original OS 9 folders. There may be 
others that Rev expects to find on an OS 9 system which have gone 
missing. Do you have a native OS 9 machine you can boot into to test?

PPC standalones normally run fine in Classic.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From Jeanpaulpoccard at aol.com  Tue Aug 24 02:48:49 2004
From: Jeanpaulpoccard at aol.com (Jeanpaulpoccard at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 02:48:49 EDT
Subject: silent beeps
Message-ID: <8a.130a10ba.2e5c3ed1@aol.com>

The first times I used Revolution, the beep worked perfectly on my Ibook with 
OSX 10.3.2. 
Some months ago I noticed that Revolution's beep was silent   and Itunes too. 


As I found the beep useful in my attempts to debug my stacks, I came back to 
my old Ibook with OSX 10.2 .   After some weeks I noticed that suddenly both 
Revolution's beep and Itunes became silent.

Exactly like if theese applications checked the same system flag...

Did anyone notice the same correlation ? 

Thank you 
Cordialement, 
Jean-Paul Poccard.

From Cubist at aol.com  Tue Aug 24 03:36:30 2004
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 03:36:30 EDT
Subject: switching between movies
Message-ID: <1a9.27d487b5.2e5c49fe@aol.com>

sez userev at canelasoftware.com:
>On Aug 23, 2004, at 12:28 AM, Jason Tangen wrote:
>
>> I have two movies (both 640x480, 240 frames, ~2MB each).  I want to 
>> allow the user to click a button to switch back and forth between the
>> two without delay.  Right now - I'm using the following strategy:
>>
>> on keydown key
>>   if key = space then
>>     put the currentTime of player "A" into Atime
>>     set lockscreen to true
>>     hide player "A"
>>     set the currentTime of player "B" to Atime
>>     show player "B"
>>     start player "B"
>>     set lockscreen to false
>>   else pass keyDown
>> end keydown
>>
>> ...but this results in a rather noticeable delay between the clips.
>
>Hi Jason,
>
>I modified your program slightly.  The main thing I noticed was to take
>out the lock screen.  This made things pretty snappy.  The faster the 
>computer, the faster the transition.  I put this code at the card level.
>
>on keydown thekey
>   put thekey
>   if thekey = "1" then
>     stop player "B"
>     put the currentTime of player "B" into Atime
>     hide player "B"
>     set the currentTime of player "A" to Atime
>     show player "A"
>     start player "A"
>   end if
>
>   if thekey = "2" then
>     stop player "A"
>     put the currentTime of player "A" into Atime
>     hide player "A"
>     set the currentTime of player "B" to Atime
>     show player "B"
>     start player "B"
>   end if
>   pass keyDown
>end keydown
   Speaking as an amateur with a fetish for minimizing the number of lines of 
code, I'd be interested to see if the following modification of your handler 
is any better or worse than your code...

on keydown thekey
  put thekey
  switch theKey
    case 1
      put "B" into OldPlay
      put "lay
  put the currentTime of player OldPlay into Atime
  hide player OldPlay
  set the currentTime of player NuPlay to Atime
  show player NuPlay
  start player NuPlay

  pass keyDown
end keydown

   ...inquiring minds want to know!

From pascal.jablonka at paris.IUFM.FR  Wed Aug 18 14:41:21 2004
From: pascal.jablonka at paris.IUFM.FR (Pascal Jablonka)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:41:21 +0200
Subject: internet library
In-Reply-To: <B432FCCD-F11F-11D8-8A2A-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <0F904CAD-F053-11D8-ABFC-0003934A8FF2@paris.IUFM.FR>
	<B432FCCD-F11F-11D8-8A2A-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <33529B2F-F146-11D8-B66D-0003934A8FF2@paris.IUFM.FR>

Ok troy,
Thank you to worry about
"serveur" is the adress of ftp host (ftp://user:pswd at ftphost/)
"arbo" contains the complete path of folder that is displayed
"y" (parameter) contains the term "fichier" and the name of the file 
wich the user wants to transfer
"fichier" is the url of the file (arbo & y)
"connexion" is a boolean to show or hide the state (connected or not of 
the transfert)
arbolocale is a handler that shows the state of defaultfolder after 
transfert (should do)

on transfert y
   global serveur, arbo, connexion
   switch word 1 of y
   case "dossier"
     delete word 1 of y
     -- ? traiter par r?cursivit? (to be writen later)
     break
   case "fichier"
     delete word 1 of y
     put arbo & y  into fichier
     put true into connexion
     set visible of button "activit? serveur" to connexion
     libURLDownloadToFile fichier
     if the result is not empty then answer fichier & return & the result
     put false into connexion
     arbolocale defaultfolder
     break
   end switch
end transfert

Y probably did something wrong but, as usual when you have something 
just under your eyes, you don't see it

Pascal

Pascal Jablonka
IUFM de Paris
http://certem.paris.iufm.fr/jablonka

Le 18 ao?t 04, ? 16:05, Troy Rollins a ?crit :

>
> On Aug 17, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Pascal Jablonka wrote:
>
>> I'm new on this list. I'm french, I'm trying to write a standard ftp 
>> tool who can work as well on Macintosh, Windows and Linux  for my 
>> students wich are preservice teachers.
>> using  "    libURLDownloadToFile fichier" in order to put the url 
>> fichier (ftp://user:password at hostname/path of the file) into the 
>> default folder, the respons of the serveur is "can't open that file" 
>> whatever the type of the file is.
>> How to copy a file from an ftp host or to an ftp host ?
>
> Hi Pascal,
>
> Can you post the segment of code which is trying to do this? Maybe if 
> we see it we can tell you what is wrong.
>
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 24 07:24:29 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 04:24:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: internet library
In-Reply-To: <33529B2F-F146-11D8-B66D-0003934A8FF2@paris.IUFM.FR>
Message-ID: <20040824112429.21170.qmail@web60502.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Pascal Jablonka <pascal.jablonka at paris.IUFM.FR>
wrote:
> Ok troy,
> Thank you to worry about
> "serveur" is the adress of ftp host
> (ftp://user:pswd at ftphost/)
> "arbo" contains the complete path of folder that is
> displayed
> "y" (parameter) contains the term "fichier" and the
> name of the file 
> wich the user wants to transfer
> "fichier" is the url of the file (arbo & y)
> "connexion" is a boolean to show or hide the state
> (connected or not of 
> the transfert)
> arbolocale is a handler that shows the state of
> defaultfolder after 
> transfert (should do)
> 
> on transfert y
>    global serveur, arbo, connexion
>    switch word 1 of y
>    case "dossier"
>      delete word 1 of y
>      -- ? traiter par r?cursivit? (to be writen
> later)
>      break
>    case "fichier"
>      delete word 1 of y
>      put arbo & y  into fichier
>      put true into connexion
>      set visible of button "activit? serveur" to
> connexion
>      libURLDownloadToFile fichier
>      if the result is not empty then answer fichier
> & return & the result
>      put false into connexion
>      arbolocale defaultfolder
>      break
>    end switch
> end transfert
> 
> Y probably did something wrong but, as usual when
> you have something 
> just under your eyes, you don't see it
> 
> Pascal
> 

Hi Pascal,

My name isn't Troy, but I'll respond anyway -- that's
what the list is for :)
A quick look at the Transcript dictionary reveals :
  libURLDownloadToFile downloadURL,filePath
Where the parameter <downloadURL> is the full path,
including the server, of the file to download ; and
the parameter <filePath> is the local path where you
want to save the file after download.

Applying this to your code, you'd get :
--
on transfert y
   global serveur, arbo, connexion
   switch word 1 of y
   case "dossier"
     delete word 1 of y
     -- ? traiter par r?cursivit? 
     -- (to be writen later)
     break
   case "fichier"
     delete word 1 of y
     put arbo & y  into fichier
     put true into connexion
     set visible of button "activit? serveur" to \
         connexion
     put serveur & arbo & y into downloadURL
     put the defaultFolder & "/" & y into filePath
     libURLDownloadToFile downloadURL, filePath
     if the result is not empty
     then answer fichier & return & the result
     put false into connexion
     arbolocale the defaultFolder
     break
   end switch
end transfert
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From pascal.jablonka at paris.IUFM.FR  Tue Aug 24 08:57:56 2004
From: pascal.jablonka at paris.IUFM.FR (Pascal Jablonka)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:57:56 +0200
Subject: internet library
In-Reply-To: <20040824112429.21170.qmail@web60502.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040824112429.21170.qmail@web60502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <37EFD352-F5CD-11D8-B305-0003934A8FF2@paris.IUFM.FR>

Thank you Jan,

I'll try this

Pascal


Le 24 ao?t 04, ? 13:24, Jan Schenkel a ?crit :

> --- Pascal Jablonka <pascal.jablonka at paris.IUFM.FR>
> wrote:
>> Ok troy,
>> Thank you to worry about
>> "serveur" is the adress of ftp host
>> (ftp://user:pswd at ftphost/)
>> "arbo" contains the complete path of folder that is
>> displayed
>> "y" (parameter) contains the term "fichier" and the
>> name of the file
>> wich the user wants to transfer
>> "fichier" is the url of the file (arbo & y)
>> "connexion" is a boolean to show or hide the state
>> (connected or not of
>> the transfert)
>> arbolocale is a handler that shows the state of
>> defaultfolder after
>> transfert (should do)
>>
>> on transfert y
>>    global serveur, arbo, connexion
>>    switch word 1 of y
>>    case "dossier"
>>      delete word 1 of y
>>      -- ? traiter par r?cursivit? (to be writen
>> later)
>>      break
>>    case "fichier"
>>      delete word 1 of y
>>      put arbo & y  into fichier
>>      put true into connexion
>>      set visible of button "activit? serveur" to
>> connexion
>>      libURLDownloadToFile fichier
>>      if the result is not empty then answer fichier
>> & return & the result
>>      put false into connexion
>>      arbolocale defaultfolder
>>      break
>>    end switch
>> end transfert
>>
>> Y probably did something wrong but, as usual when
>> you have something
>> just under your eyes, you don't see it
>>
>> Pascal
>>
>
> Hi Pascal,
>
> My name isn't Troy, but I'll respond anyway -- that's
> what the list is for :)
> A quick look at the Transcript dictionary reveals :
>   libURLDownloadToFile downloadURL,filePath
> Where the parameter <downloadURL> is the full path,
> including the server, of the file to download ; and
> the parameter <filePath> is the local path where you
> want to save the file after download.
>
> Applying this to your code, you'd get :
> --
> on transfert y
>    global serveur, arbo, connexion
>    switch word 1 of y
>    case "dossier"
>      delete word 1 of y
>      -- ? traiter par r?cursivit?
>      -- (to be writen later)
>      break
>    case "fichier"
>      delete word 1 of y
>      put arbo & y  into fichier
>      put true into connexion
>      set visible of button "activit? serveur" to \
>          connexion
>      put serveur & arbo & y into downloadURL
>      put the defaultFolder & "/" & y into filePath
>      libURLDownloadToFile downloadURL, filePath
>      if the result is not empty
>      then answer fichier & return & the result
>      put false into connexion
>      arbolocale the defaultFolder
>      break
>    end switch
> end transfert
> --
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
>
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Aug 24 09:36:02 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:36:02 -0400
Subject: problem running from a CD on Mac
In-Reply-To: <725CB042-F57E-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040823155122.00d47b48@mail.xmission.com>
	<725CB042-F57E-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <8ADDCF58-F5D2-11D8-A5D7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Leston,

Check the file path. That is the leading issue when converting from the 
folder structure on the HD to moving to CD. It has to be referenced to 
not show up and if so then change the file path to the image so it 
matches the final state of the CD.


HTH

Tom

On Aug 23, 2004, at 11:34 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> I've got a standalone application. It is a slide-show type app, with 
>> about 10 pages, lots of graphics. Has a background graphic that is 
>> grouped (a singe image in the group) so it can be placed on each page 
>> at layer 1. I create a standalone file (on the Mac). Test it and it 
>> runs fine from the mac's hard drive.
>>
>> However, if I burn the files to a CD, everything works except that 
>> the background image (its about 40 k in size) does not show up. This 
>> is the one that is grouped. It's missing on each page. I created my 
>> own kind of message box to query the app when it is running from the 
>> CD, and it says that it is visible, in the proper location, etc.
>>
>> If I then copy the files from the CD over to the hard drive, it runs 
>> perfectly, the background image is visible as it should be.
>
> You don't say whether the image is referenced or whether it has been 
> imported into the stack. If it is referenced, then I would guess that 
> the file path includes your hard disk name. Use your message box to 
> check the filename of the image and see what you get then.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From lestond at lpsoftware.com  Tue Aug 24 09:37:25 2004
From: lestond at lpsoftware.com (Leston Drake)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:37:25 -0600
Subject: problem running from a CD on Mac
In-Reply-To: <725CB042-F57E-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040823155122.00d47b48@mail.xmission.com>
 <5.1.1.6.0.20040823155122.00d47b48@mail.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040824073610.03a74bd8@mail.xmission.com>

The file is imported into the application. It is not externally referenced. 
In fact, the app was developed on a WinXP machine, the Windows version 
works great, but not the Mac (from the CD).

At 09:34 PM 8/23/2004, you wrote:
>>I've got a standalone application. It is a slide-show type app, with 
>>about 10 pages, lots of graphics. Has a background graphic that is 
>>grouped (a singe image in the group) so it can be placed on each page at 
>>layer 1. I create a standalone file (on the Mac). Test it and it runs 
>>fine from the mac's hard drive.
>>
>>However, if I burn the files to a CD, everything works except that the 
>>background image (its about 40 k in size) does not show up. This is the 
>>one that is grouped. It's missing on each page. I created my own kind of 
>>message box to query the app when it is running from the CD, and it says 
>>that it is visible, in the proper location, etc.
>>
>>If I then copy the files from the CD over to the hard drive, it runs 
>>perfectly, the background image is visible as it should be.
>
>You don't say whether the image is referenced or whether it has been 
>imported into the stack. If it is referenced, then I would guess that the 
>file path includes your hard disk name. Use your message box to check the 
>filename of the image and see what you get then.
>
>Cheers,
>Sarah
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 24 10:31:08 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:31:08 -0400
Subject: internet library
In-Reply-To: <20040824112429.21170.qmail@web60502.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040824112429.21170.qmail@web60502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D00BD49-F5DA-11D8-9743-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 24, 2004, at 7:24 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> My name isn't Troy, but I'll respond anyway -- that's
> what the list is for :)

My name happens to be Troy, and I agree with Jan - that change should 
solve the problem.  :-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Aug 24 11:28:37 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:28:37 -0700
Subject: Printing Text & Juxtaposed Images
Message-ID: <a05100300bd510c2a5fb6@[66.52.165.13]>

Hi All,

Is there some magic formula (or a later version of RR) needed to get 
text to print over &/or under an image without distortion?

I've tried printing two different cards in different stacks using RR 
2.1.2 & Mac OS 10.2 and RR 2.0b1 & Mac OS 9 [same HP printer].  In 
one stack, text over/under the transparent portions of a gif is 
distorted differently depending on whether the field containing the 
text is in a higher or lower layer than the image.  In the other I am 
printing text in a transparent field over an image with a blendLevel 
of 80, and the text is printed with a white shadow around it [and 
remains so if blendLevel is set to 0.
-- 
Rob Cozens, Staff Conservator
Mendonoma Marine Life Conservancy

"Knowledge of the oceans is more than a matter of curiosity.
  Our very survival may depend upon it."

  -- John Fitzgerald Kennedy, 1961

From P.Jimmieson at csc.liv.ac.uk  Tue Aug 24 11:39:44 2004
From: P.Jimmieson at csc.liv.ac.uk (Phil Jimmieson)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:39:44 +0100
Subject: Printing Text & Juxtaposed Images
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bd510c2a5fb6@[66.52.165.13]>
References: <a05100300bd510c2a5fb6@[66.52.165.13]>
Message-ID: <a05200f05bd511199a617@[10.1.196.4]>

>Hi All,
>
>Is there some magic formula (or a later version of RR) needed to get 
>text to print over &/or under an image without distortion?
>
>I've tried printing two different cards in different stacks using RR 
>2.1.2 & Mac OS 10.2 and RR 2.0b1 & Mac OS 9 [same HP printer].  In 
>one stack, text over/under the transparent portions of a gif is 
>distorted differently depending on whether the field containing the 
>text is in a higher or lower layer than the image.  In the other I 
>am printing text in a transparent field over an image with a 
>blendLevel of 80, and the text is printed with a white shadow around 
>it [and remains so if blendLevel is set to 0.

Hi Rob,
check out

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1653

-- 
Phil Jimmieson  phil at csc.liv.ac.uk  (UK) 0151 794 3689  (Mobile) 07976 983164
Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Chadwick Building, Peach Street
Liverpool L69 7ZF              http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
   I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment.

From frank at backtalk.com  Tue Aug 24 12:17:40 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:17:40 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Web Photos Pro 1.0b10 and FREE license keys...
Message-ID: <1EFCE143-F5E9-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Hello all,

Version 1.0b10 of Web Photos Pro (written in Revolution) for Mac OS X 
and Windows XP/2000 is available for download.

I'm offering a free license key to Web Photos Pro v1.0 to anyone on the 
RunRev lists who uses the product to upload 3 or more albums with at 
least 10 photos in each album.  Simply send me a url of the albums 
you've uploaded, and I'll send you a free license key when the product 
ships.

Home page: http://www.webphotospro.com/
Downloads:  http://www.webphotospro.com/downloads/
Release notes: 
http://www.webphotospro.com/archives/category/release-notes/

-- Frank Leahy

Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/


From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Aug 24 12:26:36 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:26:36 -0300
Subject: [ANN] Web Photos Pro 1.0b10 and FREE license keys...
In-Reply-To: <1EFCE143-F5E9-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <1EFCE143-F5E9-11D8-ACA6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <5E59348C-F5EA-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Frank,

congratulations on your webphotospro!!! It's a very nice app, I am 
looking at the screenshots now, plain easy! It's the kind of app we 
like to see!

Cheers
andre




On Aug 24, 2004, at 1:17 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> www.webphotospro.com/
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Aug 23 23:06:20 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:06:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <DCBBA632-F2E7-11D8-9742-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408232005370.16994-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I dunno, but even my wintel students all complain about XP being
bloatware...

(Sorry for the late reply -- our server's apparently been down a while...)

Judy

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Marian Petrides wrote:

> What is the problem using XP Home Edition for development?
>
> I develop on Mac, then port, tweak and test the WinTel version on a
> laptop running XP Home Ed.  I haven't had any problems, but my exposure
> to XP Home is inherently minimal.
>


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Aug 23 23:12:19 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:12:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <E7CF1A24-F30E-11D8-B5DE-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408232008470.16994-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

FWIW, I also ran VPC w/XP on a dual G4... kinda painfully slow.

FWIW, if your user is using an older PC with specs that match Rev's
lower-limit official specs for deliverables, this is kinda like what VPC
is like on my dual G4, so, in a way, using VPC does you the favor of
knowing how dreadfully slow your app will run under the standard K-12
education PC.

Judy

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> But, I would be running VPC on OSX G4 dual-processor desktop model, (in
> another room) to upgraded to a G5 soon... so I think the speed will be
> acceptable.


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Aug 23 23:17:07 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEDBGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408232016190.16994-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Not to be excessively grouchy, but, hasn't this been the case for a good
year or more already?

Judy

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, MisterX wrote:

> I think there is something about it in the readme...
>
> It's in the what's new actually
>
>
> Issue:  On Windows systems, the Speech library is not yet compatible with
> version
> 5.x of Microsoft's speech software.
> Workaround:  Use version 4.x instead.
>


From pascal.jablonka at paris.IUFM.FR  Tue Aug 24 13:08:38 2004
From: pascal.jablonka at paris.IUFM.FR (Pascal Jablonka)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:08:38 +0200
Subject: internet library
In-Reply-To: <3D00BD49-F5DA-11D8-9743-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <20040824112429.21170.qmail@web60502.mail.yahoo.com>
	<3D00BD49-F5DA-11D8-9743-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <3DF6305A-F5F0-11D8-B561-0003934A8FF2@paris.IUFM.FR>

:-)

Pascal


Le 24 ao?t 04, ? 16:31, Troy Rollins a ?crit :

>
> On Aug 24, 2004, at 7:24 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:
>
>> My name isn't Troy, but I'll respond anyway -- that's
>> what the list is for :)
>
> My name happens to be Troy, and I agree with Jan - that change should 
> solve the problem.  :-)
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 24 13:11:31 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:11:31 -0700
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408232008470.16994-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408232008470.16994-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <412B76C3.4090202@fourthworld.com>

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
> 
>But, I would be running VPC on OSX G4 dual-processor desktop model, (in
>another room) to upgraded to a G5 soon... so I think the speed will be
>acceptable.

I have three physical PCs (Win XP, ME, and 95) and one copy of Virtual 
PC running on my G4 laptop.  While running VPC is a great way to 
spot-check Windows design issues and to make Win installers (I use Wise 
Install), the speed is at the edge of tolerable.

Under Micro$oft the new product is well optimized for running Win XP, 
but even with these enhancements it's very slow compared to running on 
native hardware.  And using any non-Micro$oft OS under VPC (it's a snap 
to set up a virtual Linux installation) runs much slower still.  Sure, a 
dual-G5 will help, but the nature of the task means it will never match 
native hardware.

Beyond the sluggish performance inherent with emulation, a bigger issue 
is that from time to time I'll come across issues in VPC that aren't 
evident on a physical PC (mostly redraw issues).  True, these get fewer 
and fewer with each new version of VPC, but something to keep in mind.

VPC is a great solution for ocassional Windows work while on the road 
(unless you don't mind lugging two laptops <g>), but if you're working 
at a desk you'll have a much more productive experience using a physical 
PC, and one which will more closely mirror the experience of your users. 
  You can have even greater productivity if you use the software gadget 
Chipp is fond of which allows you to use one mouse and keyboard across 
both systems as though the monitors are physically connected (Chipp, 
what's that called again?).

Best of all, with PCs being so inexpensive the cost difference is 
trivial.  Unless you play games the Celeron-based machines are quite 
suitable, and dirt-cheap (Mac users can only dream of the sort of 
competitive pricing that happens once you break out of a manufacturing 
monopoly). I got one from HP for under $500 that performs enviably well 
compared to my $2600 Mac (Quartz, while pretty, is a processor hog), and 
cheaper bargains are available if you shop around; even used ones can be 
a great value, and often $200 or less (roughly the same price as VPC).

And if you're only using the machine for tweaking/testing, you'll have 
plenty of hard drive space available if you choose to reformat to have a 
dual-boot so you can run Linux on that box too.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Tue Aug 24 13:53:58 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:53:58 -0400
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <412B76C3.4090202@fourthworld.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408232008470.16994-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<412B76C3.4090202@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <931D0C28-F5F6-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

You might want to check out www.qemu.org.

On Aug 24, 2004, at 1:11 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>> But, I would be running VPC on OSX G4 dual-processor desktop model, 
>> (in
>> another room) to upgraded to a G5 soon... so I think the speed will be
>> acceptable.
>
> I have three physical PCs (Win XP, ME, and 95) and one copy of Virtual 
> PC running on my G4 laptop.  While running VPC is a great way to 
> spot-check Windows design issues and to make Win installers (I use 
> Wise Install), the speed is at the edge of tolerable.
>
> Under Micro$oft the new product is well optimized for running Win XP, 
> but even with these enhancements it's very slow compared to running on 
> native hardware.  And using any non-Micro$oft OS under VPC (it's a 
> snap to set up a virtual Linux installation) runs much slower still.  
> Sure, a dual-G5 will help, but the nature of the task means it will 
> never match native hardware.
>
> Beyond the sluggish performance inherent with emulation, a bigger 
> issue is that from time to time I'll come across issues in VPC that 
> aren't evident on a physical PC (mostly redraw issues).  True, these 
> get fewer and fewer with each new version of VPC, but something to 
> keep in mind.
>
> VPC is a great solution for ocassional Windows work while on the road 
> (unless you don't mind lugging two laptops <g>), but if you're working 
> at a desk you'll have a much more productive experience using a 
> physical PC, and one which will more closely mirror the experience of 
> your users.  You can have even greater productivity if you use the 
> software gadget Chipp is fond of which allows you to use one mouse and 
> keyboard across both systems as though the monitors are physically 
> connected (Chipp, what's that called again?).
>
> Best of all, with PCs being so inexpensive the cost difference is 
> trivial.  Unless you play games the Celeron-based machines are quite 
> suitable, and dirt-cheap (Mac users can only dream of the sort of 
> competitive pricing that happens once you break out of a manufacturing 
> monopoly). I got one from HP for under $500 that performs enviably 
> well compared to my $2600 Mac (Quartz, while pretty, is a processor 
> hog), and cheaper bargains are available if you shop around; even used 
> ones can be a great value, and often $200 or less (roughly the same 
> price as VPC).
>
> And if you're only using the machine for tweaking/testing, you'll have 
> plenty of hard drive space available if you choose to reformat to have 
> a dual-boot so you can run Linux on that box too.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Tue Aug 24 13:57:24 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:57:24 -0400
Subject: Database Problems w/ Linux Standalones...
Message-ID: <0DADE548-F5F7-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

I can see that similar problems have been discussed previously on the 
list, but I can't seem to find an exact match for this.

I am running the OS X version of Rev 2.2.1.  I built standalones for a 
database app (PostgreSQL) for Windoze, OS X, and Linux.  The Windoze 
and OS X versions work "as advertised", but the Linux version seems to 
simply disregard my login script as soon as it hits the revOpenDatabase 
line -- the script works up to that point, then simply quits and drops 
me back to where I was before the script started (as if the 
revOpenDatabase line was an "exit mouseUp" command).

What would likely be the problem here, and how can I solve it?

Thank you!



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com


From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Aug 24 14:06:36 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:06:36 -0300
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
Message-ID: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I am building a little project manager here. I would like to be able to 
show a calendar like control so that the user could grasp the big 
picture of his project, like iCal and MS Project do. I am finding the 
field control very bad for it, the tabStops thing is horrible to design 
grids, I must calculate the biggest string, make arcane math to find 
how much pixels it will take and set the tabstops so that they do not 
overlap and so on... I thought about using the htmlText property and 
render a HTML table, but hey, my fields are not rendering the <table> 
tag... A choice would be using altBrowser, but I am in crossplatform 
hell I think, for I am developing for windows but on a mac, so 
althought I could deploy altBrowser, I can use it here in the Dev 
enviroment (unless altBroswer for mac is out)!

So, anyone here got an advise? I am planning to make a grid like this:
* first column is a status column is a status one, it will show a image 
(red ball or green ball depending on the status)
* second column is a string with the project task title (yes, variable 
width...)
* from the third and beyond, I would like to put the days and color 
them depending on the context.

why is it so hard?

andre
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Aug 24 13:57:05 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:57:05 -0700
Subject: Printing Text & Juxtaposed Images
In-Reply-To: <a05200f05bd511199a617@[10.1.196.4]>
References: <a05100300bd510c2a5fb6@[66.52.165.13]>
 <a05200f05bd511199a617@[10.1.196.4]>
Message-ID: <a05100301bd5130fc0661@[66.52.165.221]>

>check out
>
>http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1653

Thanks, Phil.

Interestingly, the BZ report said the problem didn't appear on OS X; 
but I see it here in 10.2...possibly it'll go away when I get a newer 
version of RR.

FWIW, I'm seeing distortion inside the rect of a button but outside 
the image identified as the button's icon.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Aug 24 14:07:58 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:07:58 -0700
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <412B76C3.4090202@fourthworld.com>
References:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408232008470.16994-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
 <412B76C3.4090202@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bd5132034413@[66.52.165.221]>

Hi All,

FWIW [virtually nothing, since the product is now discontinued], 
there is an alternative that was consistently rated 4 to 5 times 
faster than VPC: SoftWindows.

Whereas VPC emulates the entire Intel instruction set, SoftWindows 
translates some instructions directly to Mac OS calls.  Running 
SoftWindows 98 on an original iBook & Mac OS 9.2, I was able to run 
ESRI's ArcExplorer "GIS for Everyone" tutorials with "reasonably" 
acceptable speed.

Once again, the better product bites the dust...flattened by the 
Microsoft juggernaut.
-- 
Rob Cozens, Staff Conservator
Mendonoma Marine Life Conservancy

"...three factors have forever altered the traditional ''freedoms''
  coincident with the hunter-gatherer way of life:

  * swift population increase...,
  * the rapid advance of technology, and, most influential &...dangerous of all,
  * a perverse self-centered mind-set that shapes the character of 
many human actions"

Sylvia A. Earle, in Sea Change

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 24 14:16:40 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:16:40 -0700
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <412B8608.9050902@fourthworld.com>

Andre Garzia wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> 
> I am building a little project manager here. I would like to be able to 
> show a calendar like control so that the user could grasp the big 
> picture of his project, like iCal and MS Project do. I am finding the 
> field control very bad for it, the tabStops thing is horrible to design 
> grids, I must calculate the biggest string, make arcane math to find how 
> much pixels it will take and set the tabstops so that they do not 
> overlap and so on... 

The multi-column grid option built into the engine is designed for 
database-style views, not multi-line cell grids, so yes, attempting to 
make it work like a different type of grid will be some work.

But I believe the formattedWidth function works on chunks, no?  If so, 
it should simplify the arithmetic for determining tabStops.

 > I thought about using the htmlText property and
> render a HTML table, but hey, my fields are not rendering the <table> 
> tag... 

Not yet, but you can vote for it:
<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1447>

> So, anyone here got an advise? I am planning to make a grid like this:
> * first column is a status column is a status one, it will show a image 
> (red ball or green ball depending on the status)
> * second column is a string with the project task title (yes, variable 
> width...)
> * from the third and beyond, I would like to put the days and color them 
> depending on the context.

If these fields only display a single line you may find the built-in 
multi-column option to be just fine.

If you need multiple lines then creating a separate field for each cell 
may be the way to go.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 24 14:23:36 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:23:36 -0400
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B6CFBA42-F5FA-11D8-9743-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 24, 2004, at 2:06 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> So, anyone here got an advise? I am planning to make a grid like this:
> * first column is a status column is a status one, it will show a  
> image (red ball or green ball depending on the status)
> * second column is a string with the project task title (yes, variable  
> width...)
> * from the third and beyond, I would like to put the days and color  
> them depending on the context.
>
> why is it so hard?

This is the sort of "data grid" that I have been saying is lacking in  
Rev currently - though you have some additional and specific needs.  
There is a popular feature request in -   
<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/votes.cgi? 
action=show_bug&bug_id=670>

Which I see you have already committed 5 votes to. The current total  
for that feature is at 131 votes, which is pretty high among requested  
features.

I've taken some rough stabs at creating them in Transcript, but I don't  
have the patience or the Transcript finesse with fields to get them to  
work correctly.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 24 14:25:55 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:25:55 -0700
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <09EF3A54-F5FB-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 11:06 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> So, anyone here got an advise? I am planning to make a grid like this:
> * first column is a status column is a status one, it will show a 
> image (red ball or green ball depending on the status)
> * second column is a string with the project task title (yes, variable 
> width...)
> * from the third and beyond, I would like to put the days and color 
> them depending on the context.
>
> why is it so hard?

There's good news and bad news. If you use an individual field object 
for each table cell and you write a docking handler that allows for loc 
and rect changes then you have a very powerful library that does what 
you need. This could be the beginning of reinventing the spreadsheet. 
Perhaps someone has already created such a stack?

Mark


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Aug 24 14:27:34 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:27:34 -0700
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <412B8608.9050902@fourthworld.com>
References: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<412B8608.9050902@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <44A7421A-F5FB-11D8-8300-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 24, 2004, at 11:16 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
> But I believe the formattedWidth function works on chunks, no?  If so, 
> it should simplify the arithmetic for determining tabStops.

It does indeed work on chunks.  I just learned this the other day while 
working on a data grid viewer and it changed my life.  One day I will 
learn to pay more attention when reading the docs.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 24 14:53:55 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:53:55 -0700
Subject: Right click menu on Windows
In-Reply-To: <44A7421A-F5FB-11D8-8300-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <F3100AB9-F5FE-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>

Hi,

I'm trying to create a right click menu that come up like in the IDE. I 
want right click control of cut, copy, paste, & clear. My control-C and 
control-V work fine.

Anyone know where to look for this capability?

Mark


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Aug 24 14:59:27 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:59:27 +0200
Subject: Right click menu on Windows
In-Reply-To: <F3100AB9-F5FE-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <F3100AB9-F5FE-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B8E24A7D-F5FF-11D8-AACE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to create a right click menu that come up like in the IDE. 
> I want right click control of cut, copy, paste, & clear. My control-C 
> and control-V work fine.
> Anyone know where to look for this capability?

Create a popup button with the menus you need and put it offscreen...
(I think hiding the button does only work on a mac...?)

Then script:

on mousedown whatmouse
    if whatmouse = 3 then ## right- or control-click!
      popup btn "you btn here"
   end if
end mousedown

Hope that helps...

> Mark

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Tue Aug 24 14:59:41 2004
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:59:41 -0700
Subject: problem running from a CD on Mac
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040824073610.03a74bd8@mail.xmission.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040823155122.00d47b48@mail.xmission.com>
	<5.1.1.6.0.20040823155122.00d47b48@mail.xmission.com>
	<5.1.1.6.0.20040824073610.03a74bd8@mail.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <412B901D.6090407@comcast.net>

Another possibility - no guarantees, but you can try it:

Create a button to use as your backdrop, and set its icon to the ID 
of the image. Also turn of all its properties that make it interactive.

You can then move the image to any stack that will be open during 
the 'slide show', and/or you can hide the image. You can use any 
size image as a button icon.

I don't know if this will give you different results, but it might 
be worth a try if you're in a pinch.

Phil Davis



Leston Drake wrote:
> The file is imported into the application. It is not externally 
> referenced. In fact, the app was developed on a WinXP machine, the 
> Windows version works great, but not the Mac (from the CD).
> 
> At 09:34 PM 8/23/2004, you wrote:
> 
>>> I've got a standalone application. It is a slide-show type app, with 
>>> about 10 pages, lots of graphics. Has a background graphic that is 
>>> grouped (a singe image in the group) so it can be placed on each page 
>>> at layer 1. I create a standalone file (on the Mac). Test it and it 
>>> runs fine from the mac's hard drive.
>>>
>>> However, if I burn the files to a CD, everything works except that 
>>> the background image (its about 40 k in size) does not show up. This 
>>> is the one that is grouped. It's missing on each page. I created my 
>>> own kind of message box to query the app when it is running from the 
>>> CD, and it says that it is visible, in the proper location, etc.
>>>
>>> If I then copy the files from the CD over to the hard drive, it runs 
>>> perfectly, the background image is visible as it should be.
>>
>>
>> You don't say whether the image is referenced or whether it has been 
>> imported into the stack. If it is referenced, then I would guess that 
>> the file path includes your hard disk name. Use your message box to 
>> check the filename of the image and see what you get then.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Sarah

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 24 15:07:49 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:07:49 -0700
Subject: Right click menu on Windows
In-Reply-To: <F3100AB9-F5FE-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E44BB9F3-F600-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 11:53 AM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to create a right click menu that come up like in the IDE. 
> I want right click control of cut, copy, paste, & clear. My control-C 
> and control-V work fine.
>
> Anyone know where to look for this capability?
>
> Mark

from the docs:

on mouseUp theButton
   if theButton is 3 then popup stack "Lookup Options"
   else pass mouseDown
end mouseUp

This looks like the recommended way, I guess.

Mark


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 24 15:09:17 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:09:17 -0700
Subject: Right click menu on Windows
In-Reply-To: <B8E24A7D-F5FF-11D8-AACE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <18AF999E-F601-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 11:59 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

>  popup btn "you btn here"

Oh, popup a button. cool...

thanks, it did help.

Mark


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Aug 24 16:00:38 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:00:38 -0600
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bd5132034413@[66.52.165.221]>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408232008470.16994-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<412B76C3.4090202@fourthworld.com> <a05100302bd5132034413@[66.52.165.221]>
Message-ID: <451C36BF-F608-11D8-8F08-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 24, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Once again, the better product bites the dust...flattened by the 
> Microsoft juggernaut.

Better might depend on what the user has in mind for testing.  Using a 
real OS has advantages.

Wasn't it last year that Microsoft bought VPC?  When did SoftWindows 
bite the dust?

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Tue Aug 24 15:59:41 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:59:41 -0400
Subject: Database Problems w/ Linux Standalones...
Message-ID: <OFA0D13470.FDF18878-ON85256EFA.006CBCF0@sealedair.com>

"Frank D. Engel, Jr." <fde101 at fjrhome.net> wrote:
> ... but the Linux version seems to simply disregard my
> login script as soon as it hits the revOpenDatabase line...

I have experienced a similar thing with MySQL using the terrific SQL 
contribution stack from Sarah Reichelt. My stack would not connect to the 
MySQL daemon (also running on Linux) until I lower-cased the word "mysql" 
in the script of the connect button. Now it works great! Linux just seems 
to be more case-sensitive than Mac or Win.

put revOpenDatabase("mysql",dbAddr,dbName,dbUser,dbPass) into dbresult

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Aug 24 16:37:21 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:37:21 -0500
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <412BA701.7070902@chipp.com>

Hi Andre,

I'm not exactly sure what you're after, but it appears from your 
description fairly easy to do.

Just use htmlText for each line. For instance:

set the htmlText of line 1 of fld "timeline" to \

<p><img src="redball.gif">&#9;Task One&#9;<img src="active.gif">&#9;<img 
src="nonactive.gif"></p>

You'll need to get the secondColumn formattedTextWidth and set your 
tabstops accordingly. I've done this many times for my projects.

btw, &#9; is the html for tab

-Chipp

Andre Garzia wrote:

> So, anyone here got an advise? I am planning to make a grid like this:
> * first column is a status column is a status one, it will show a image 
> (red ball or green ball depending on the status)
> * second column is a string with the project task title (yes, variable 
> width...)
> * from the third and beyond, I would like to put the days and color them 
> depending on the context.

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 24 17:22:36 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:22:36 -0700
Subject: Missing tutorial
Message-ID: <412BB19C.6020509@fourthworld.com>

Anyone have the current URL to the "Beginning Programming in Revolution" 
tutorial from Richard James and Russell Hansen?

The old URL was:
<http://chum.byu.edu:16080/classes/CHum281/>

but is now 404.

TIA -

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From lestond at lpsoftware.com  Tue Aug 24 17:22:35 2004
From: lestond at lpsoftware.com (Leston Drake)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:22:35 -0600
Subject: problem running from a CD on Mac - SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040824073610.03a74bd8@mail.xmission.com>
References: <725CB042-F57E-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
 <5.1.1.6.0.20040823155122.00d47b48@mail.xmission.com>
 <5.1.1.6.0.20040823155122.00d47b48@mail.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040824151831.03aa4ba8@mail.xmission.com>

Thanks to you all for your input.

I solved the problem. It turns out that the JPG image was corrupted in some 
way. I re-created the JPG and re-imported it. The problem went away when I 
did that.

Seems strange to me that it ran differently from the CD than from the hard 
drive...? Go figure.

I'm just happy that I was able to solve it.

Thanks again.
Leston



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 24 17:26:47 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:26:47 -0700
Subject: Right click menu on Windows
In-Reply-To: <F3100AB9-F5FE-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4E036DD2-F614-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>

Is it possible to simulate a key combination click?

I'm trying to simulate a (Control & C) and (Control & V) from a 
menuPick for "copy" & "paste." I have a popup menu that allows me to 
use a field with textLock true on mouseDown and the textLock false on 
mouseUp. This enables the mouseDown to pass the mouse message to the 
popup.

If I can use the already perfectly working key combinations I won't 
have to write custom handlers for these two menuPick selections.

Mark


From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Tue Aug 24 18:53:11 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:53:11 -0600
Subject: htmlText
Message-ID: <006d01c48a2d$239eaf20$76d4e6cf@BUMP>

Any way to make the htmlText command use stylesheets instead of the normal "<font>" tags?
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 24 16:17:24 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:17:24 -0400
Subject: Database Problems w/ Linux Standalones...
In-Reply-To: <OFA0D13470.FDF18878-ON85256EFA.006CBCF0@sealedair.com>
References: <OFA0D13470.FDF18878-ON85256EFA.006CBCF0@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <9C76FF5A-F60A-11D8-9743-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:59 PM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> Linux just seems
> to be more case-sensitive than Mac or Win.

That would be because it is.  ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Tue Aug 24 18:20:48 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:20:48 -0600
Subject: Missing tutorial
In-Reply-To: <412BB19C.6020509@fourthworld.com>
References: <412BB19C.6020509@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <D9EF43CC-F61B-11D8-936D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Richard,

It's really a site meant to support a course that we teach. I suspect 
one of them has taken the site down to update it for classes that start 
next week.

wait 1800

In fact, I just checked our web server. That is apparently what 
happened. You can access the old site at 
http://chum.byu.edu/classes/chum281ob/ .

Maybe what we should do, if there is interest, is reformat the Rev 
content part of the site (minus the class-specific stuff) as a public 
reference site.

Devin

On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:22 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Anyone have the current URL to the "Beginning Programming in 
> Revolution" tutorial from Richard James and Russell Hansen?
>
> The old URL was:
> <http://chum.byu.edu:16080/classes/CHum281/>
>
> but is now 404.
>
> TIA -
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From laguer at ucs.orst.edu  Tue Aug 24 18:32:54 2004
From: laguer at ucs.orst.edu (Rich Lague)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:32:54 -0700
Subject: getting past OutLook?
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bd510c2a5fb6@[66.52.165.13]>
Message-ID: <8AB23252-F61D-11D8-BEFA-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>


	I'm trying to send my new application to the people I work with -- I 
work at  a university health clinic. The whole university is run on 
Windows, which I don't know much about. OutLook will nto let me send it 
to any of the computers of my co-workers. It objected to the ".exe" tag 
at the end of the file name. So, I tried changing the tag to ".edb", 
(the ending used in the turtorial,) but OutLook still called it an 
".exe" and refused to deliver the attachment.

	Is there some simple way around this?

Thanks!

Rich Lague

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug 24 18:36:22 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:36:22 -0500
Subject: getting past OutLook?
In-Reply-To: <8AB23252-F61D-11D8-BEFA-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <BD512D16.4713%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/24/04 5:32 PM, "Rich Lague" <laguer at ucs.orst.edu> wrote:

> 
> I'm trying to send my new application to the people I work with -- I
> work at  a university health clinic. The whole university is run on
> Windows, which I don't know much about. OutLook will nto let me send it
> to any of the computers of my co-workers. It objected to the ".exe" tag
> at the end of the file name. So, I tried changing the tag to ".edb",
> (the ending used in the turtorial,) but OutLook still called it an
> ".exe" and refused to deliver the attachment.
> 
> Is there some simple way around this?

Rich, try compressing the attachment as a .zip file and sending it that way.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 24 18:37:46 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:37:46 -0700
Subject: getting past OutLook?
In-Reply-To: <8AB23252-F61D-11D8-BEFA-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <387CD7BA-F61E-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 03:32 PM, Rich Lague wrote:

> I'm trying to send my new application to the people I work with -- I 
> work at  a university health clinic. The whole university is run on 
> Windows, which I don't know much about. OutLook will nto let me send 
> it to any of the computers of my co-workers. It objected to the ".exe" 
> tag at the end of the file name. So, I tried changing the tag to 
> ".edb", (the ending used in the turtorial,) but OutLook still called 
> it an ".exe" and refused to deliver the attachment.
>
> 	Is there some simple way around this?
>
> Thanks!

I would try compressing it into a folder that ended with .zip and try 
to send that as the attachment.

Mark


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Tue Aug 24 18:41:04 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:41:04 -0700
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <09EF3A54-F5FB-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <09EF3A54-F5FB-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AE5693CE-F61E-11D8-BA6A-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 24, 2004, at 11:25 AM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> There's good news and bad news. If you use an individual field object 
> for each table cell and you write a docking handler that allows for 
> loc and rect changes then you have a very powerful library that does 
> what you need. This could be the beginning of reinventing the 
> spreadsheet. Perhaps someone has already created such a stack?
>
> Mark

I have an app called Lesson Plan Generator.  Take a look at the demo.  
If the cell/grid structure looks useful to you, I will make it 
available to anyone who wants it.  I am working a a major upgrade to 
the program that will allow row resizing as only column resizing is 
available.  You can get the demo at:  
<http://www.canelasoftware.com/lpgupdates.html>

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 24 18:44:42 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:44:42 -0700
Subject: getting past OutLook?
In-Reply-To: <BD512D16.4713%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <309BD974-F61F-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 03:36 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Date: Tue Aug 24, 2004  3:36:22 PM US/Pacific

On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 03:37 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> From: Mark Brownell <gizmotron at earthlink.net>
> Date: Tue Aug 24, 2004  3:37:46 PM US/Pacific

1 minute, 24 seconds

Mark


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Tue Aug 24 18:47:49 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:47:49 -0400
Subject: Database Problems w/ Linux Standalones...
In-Reply-To: <9C76FF5A-F60A-11D8-9743-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <OFA0D13470.FDF18878-ON85256EFA.006CBCF0@sealedair.com>
	<9C76FF5A-F60A-11D8-9743-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <A0125BDC-F61F-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Yes, but even after I changed the text to all lower-case, it still 
doesn't work.

I hadn't even thought of the case sensitivity -- good catch, but still 
not working  :-(

On Aug 24, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:59 PM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
>
>> Linux just seems
>> to be more case-sensitive than Mac or Win.
>
> That would be because it is.  ;-)
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 24 18:53:34 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:53:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Missing tutorial
In-Reply-To: <D9EF43CC-F61B-11D8-936D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <20040824225334.2100.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Devin Asay <devin_asay at byu.edu> wrote:

> Maybe what we should do, if there is interest,
> is reformat the Rev 
> content part of the site (minus the
> class-specific stuff) as a public 
> reference site.

good idea.

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 24 19:12:16 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:12:16 -0700
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <AE5693CE-F61E-11D8-BA6A-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <0A096B9A-F623-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 03:41 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:

> I have an app called Lesson Plan Generator.  Take a look at the demo.  
> If the cell/grid structure looks useful to you, I will make it 
> available to anyone who wants it.  I am working a a major upgrade to 
> the program that will allow row resizing as only column resizing is 
> available.  You can get the demo at:  
> <http://www.canelasoftware.com/lpgupdates.html>
>
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Mark Talluto

That's a nice example of a grid. The cell/grid part would be nice to 
have handy.

Thanks,

Mark


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Tue Aug 24 19:18:22 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:18:22 -0700
Subject: switching between movies
In-Reply-To: <1a9.27d487b5.2e5c49fe@aol.com>
References: <1a9.27d487b5.2e5c49fe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <E43FC692-F623-11D8-BA6A-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 24, 2004, at 12:36 AM, Cubist at aol.com wrote:

> sez userev at canelasoftware.com:
>> On Aug 23, 2004, at 12:28 AM, Jason Tangen wrote:
>>
>>> I have two movies (both 640x480, 240 frames, ~2MB each).  I want to
>>> allow the user to click a button to switch back and forth between the
>>> two without delay.  Right now - I'm using the following strategy:
>>>
>>> on keydown key
>>>   if key = space then
>>>     put the currentTime of player "A" into Atime
>>>     set lockscreen to true
>>>     hide player "A"
>>>     set the currentTime of player "B" to Atime
>>>     show player "B"
>>>     start player "B"
>>>     set lockscreen to false
>>>   else pass keyDown
>>> end keydown
>>>
>>> ...but this results in a rather noticeable delay between the clips.
>>
>> Hi Jason,
>>
>> I modified your program slightly.  The main thing I noticed was to 
>> take
>> out the lock screen.  This made things pretty snappy.  The faster the
>> computer, the faster the transition.  I put this code at the card 
>> level.
>>
>> on keydown thekey
>>   put thekey
>>   if thekey = "1" then
>>     stop player "B"
>>     put the currentTime of player "B" into Atime
>>     hide player "B"
>>     set the currentTime of player "A" to Atime
>>     show player "A"
>>     start player "A"
>>   end if
>>
>>   if thekey = "2" then
>>     stop player "A"
>>     put the currentTime of player "A" into Atime
>>     hide player "A"
>>     set the currentTime of player "B" to Atime
>>     show player "B"
>>     start player "B"
>>   end if
>>   pass keyDown
>> end keydown
>    Speaking as an amateur with a fetish for minimizing the number of 
> lines of
> code, I'd be interested to see if the following modification of your 
> handler
> is any better or worse than your code...
>
> on keydown thekey
>   put thekey
>   switch theKey
>     case 1
>       put "B" into OldPlay
>       put "lay
>   put the currentTime of player OldPlay into Atime
>   hide player OldPlay
>   set the currentTime of player NuPlay to Atime
>   show player NuPlay
>   start player NuPlay
>
>   pass keyDown
> end keydown
>

I took at guess and made :  put "lay   ---> put "A" into "NuPlay"

In any case, this will not toggle the videos.  It will start the first 
video and nothing more.  Hitting 1 will only restart the video.  But 
yes, it is shorter than my solution.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Tue Aug 24 19:25:26 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:25:26 -0700
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <0A096B9A-F623-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <0A096B9A-F623-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E11F2966-F624-11D8-BA6A-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 24, 2004, at 4:12 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 03:41 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:
>
>> I have an app called Lesson Plan Generator.  Take a look at the demo. 
>>  If the cell/grid structure looks useful to you, I will make it 
>> available to anyone who wants it.  I am working a a major upgrade to 
>> the program that will allow row resizing as only column resizing is 
>> available.  You can get the demo at:  
>> <http://www.canelasoftware.com/lpgupdates.html>
>>
>> -- 
>> Best regards,
>> Mark Talluto
>
> That's a nice example of a grid. The cell/grid part would be nice to 
> have handy.
>

Nothing too magical under the hood.  It is a bunch of fields aligned 
next to each other.  I will see what it takes to rip it out of my 
program and post it.  I expect to be back into that program next week.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 24 19:29:37 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:29:37 -0700
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <E11F2966-F624-11D8-BA6A-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <76EC3CF6-F625-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 04:25 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:

> Nothing too magical under the hood.  It is a bunch of fields aligned 
> next to each other.  I will see what it takes to rip it out of my 
> program and post it.  I expect to be back into that program next week.

Don't hurry on my account. I don't need it. I would just work on the 
docking handler if I had nothing better to do. (I wish)

Mark


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 24 19:34:13 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:34:13 -0700
Subject: Right click menu on Windows
In-Reply-To: <4E036DD2-F614-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1B6CAFA6-F626-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 02:26 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> Is it possible to simulate a key combination click?
>
> I'm trying to simulate a (Control & C) and (Control & V) from a 
> menuPick for "copy" & "paste." I have a popup menu that allows me to 
> use a field with textLock true on mouseDown and the textLock false on 
> mouseUp. This enables the mouseDown to pass the mouse message to the 
> popup.
>
> If I can use the already perfectly working key combinations I won't 
> have to write custom handlers for these two menuPick selections.
>
> Mark

I've given up on this. I have a perfectly fine Text editor for my 
import window that works fine with Control-C, Control-V, Control-X, 
Control-Z, and Delete. So trying to call these native handlers from a 
right-click menu has caused all kinds of problems with firing off the 
mouseDown messages. So I'll just add (answer "Use Control-C") messages 
for menuPick items in the right-click menu.

Mark


From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Aug 24 19:49:13 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:49:13 -0700
Subject: htmlText
In-Reply-To: <006d01c48a2d$239eaf20$76d4e6cf@BUMP>
References: <006d01c48a2d$239eaf20$76d4e6cf@BUMP>
Message-ID: <339D762A-F628-11D8-8F21-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Derek...

Nope.

For that you'd need altBrowser from Chipp Walters and Chris Bohnert 
over at Altuit. Available now in Windows, coming soon on OS X.

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/altBrowser.htm


On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:53 PM, Derek Bump wrote:

> Any way to make the htmlText command use stylesheets instead of the 
> normal "<font>" tags?
>
>
> Derek Bump
> Dreamscape Software
> ____________________________________________
> Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
> http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 24 19:53:28 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:53:28 -0700
Subject: getting past OutLook?
In-Reply-To: <8AB23252-F61D-11D8-BEFA-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>
References: <8AB23252-F61D-11D8-BEFA-000393BAAB8A@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <412BD4F8.7030504@fourthworld.com>

Rich Lague wrote:

> 
>     I'm trying to send my new application to the people I work with -- I 
> work at  a university health clinic. The whole university is run on 
> Windows, which I don't know much about. OutLook will nto let me send it 
> to any of the computers of my co-workers. It objected to the ".exe" tag 
> at the end of the file name. So, I tried changing the tag to ".edb", 
> (the ending used in the turtorial,) but OutLook still called it an 
> ".exe" and refused to deliver the attachment.
> 
>     Is there some simple way around this?

Mozilla.  ;)

But seriously: more well maintained, gives the user greater freedom, is 
much much much more secure, and the price is right:  gratis!

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Aug 24 20:34:09 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:34:09 -0700
Subject: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC
In-Reply-To: <451C36BF-F608-11D8-8F08-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408232008470.16994-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
 <412B76C3.4090202@fourthworld.com>
 <a05100302bd5132034413@[66.52.165.221]>
 <451C36BF-F608-11D8-8F08-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bd518e9d05b0@[66.52.165.221]>

>When did SoftWindows bite the dust?

Hi Dar,

The product's still listed on Amazon.com; but is no longer on fwb's website.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From j.tangen at unsw.edu.au  Tue Aug 24 21:25:20 2004
From: j.tangen at unsw.edu.au (Jason Tangen)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:25:20 +1000
Subject: switching between movies
Message-ID: <A15B4D98-F635-11D8-938F-000D93521362@unsw.edu.au>

Thanks so much for your suggestions. I tried using the two if 
statements as well as switch resulting in no noticeable difference. 
While omitting lockscreen seems to have expedited things a bit, did 
result in a less than smooth transition between movie frames. Keeping 
lockscreen in makes it look as though there's a brief pause during the 
transition rather than an obvious switch between movies. I suppose I 
can deal with the brief pause, but I would have thought it would be 
possible to get rid of any delay whatsoever. Any other suggestions are 
welcome. Thanks again!

Jason


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Aug 24 21:31:54 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:31:54 +1000
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8C093054-F636-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> So, anyone here got an advise? I am planning to make a grid like this:
> * first column is a status column is a status one, it will show a 
> image (red ball or green ball depending on the status)
> * second column is a string with the project task title (yes, variable 
> width...)
> * from the third and beyond, I would like to put the days and color 
> them depending on the context.
>
Firstly, download Rinaldi's TabRuler plugin - it makes working with 
tabStops enormously easier: go to <http://www.xcmdfactory.com/> and 
click on the ?Revolution Stuff? button in the column on the left. In 
the plugins section of his Revolution page, you will see ?TabRuler.? 
Click on the disk icon to download the zip file.

Secondly, I don't quite see what is causing the problems. You aren't 
trying to do anything too weird and I use tables for this sort of thing 
a lot. Set your tabStops and make sure you have vertical grid turned on 
- this stops columns with lots of text overlapping the next column, 
although if you don't want to show the grid, you can make it the same 
color as the field.

You can either use htmlText to format the lines (image & color), or put 
a space in the first column of each line and use the imageSource 
property to show your status images instead of the space. With the 
colors of the later columns, I would write a handler that takes the row 
number, column number & color and sets the relevant characters to the 
specified color.

Lastly, have a look at Chipp's altFldHeader which allows you to use a 
group of header buttons to resize and sort columns in the associated 
field: 
<http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginDownload/Downloads.htm>

Cheers,
Sarah



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Aug 24 21:34:01 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:34:01 +1000
Subject: Right click menu on Windows
In-Reply-To: <1B6CAFA6-F626-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <1B6CAFA6-F626-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D7C87A6E-F636-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

>> Is it possible to simulate a key combination click?
>>
>> I'm trying to simulate a (Control & C) and (Control & V) from a 
>> menuPick for "copy" & "paste." I have a popup menu that allows me to 
>> use a field with textLock true on mouseDown and the textLock false on 
>> mouseUp. This enables the mouseDown to pass the mouse message to the 
>> popup.
>>
>> If I can use the already perfectly working key combinations I won't 
>> have to write custom handlers for these two menuPick selections.
>>
>> Mark
>
> I've given up on this. I have a perfectly fine Text editor for my 
> import window that works fine with Control-C, Control-V, Control-X, 
> Control-Z, and Delete. So trying to call these native handlers from a 
> right-click menu has caused all kinds of problems with firing off the 
> mouseDown messages. So I'll just add (answer "Use Control-C") messages 
> for menuPick items in the right-click menu.
>
Why do you want to simulate a key combination? Wouldn't it be easier 
just to have your popup menu use the "copy", "paste", "cut" & "undo" 
commands directly?

Sarah


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Aug 24 21:57:02 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:57:02 -0500
Subject: Right click menu on Windows
In-Reply-To: <4E036DD2-F614-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <4E036DD2-F614-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <412BF1EE.4050407@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/24/04 4:26 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> Is it possible to simulate a key combination click?
> 
> I'm trying to simulate a (Control & C) and (Control & V) from a menuPick 
> for "copy" & "paste." I have a popup menu that allows me to use a field 
> with textLock true on mouseDown and the textLock false on mouseUp. This 
> enables the mouseDown to pass the mouse message to the popup.
> 
> If I can use the already perfectly working key combinations I won't have 
> to write custom handlers for these two menuPick selections.

Do you need to do anything besides plain old copy/paste? If not, then 
those two commands are enough.

I think this is what they mean by "deja vu all over again." :)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From Cubist at aol.com  Tue Aug 24 23:17:04 2004
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:17:04 EDT
Subject: switching between movies
Message-ID: <77.31a61aee.2e5d5eb0@aol.com>

sez userev at canelasoftware.com:
>On Aug 24, 2004, at 12:36 AM, Cubist at aol.com wrote:
>> sez userev at canelasoftware.com:
>>> On Aug 23, 2004, at 12:28 AM, Jason Tangen wrote:
>>>> I have two movies (both 640x480, 240 frames, ~2MB each).  I want to
>>>> allow the user to click a button to switch back and forth between the
>>>> two without delay.  Right now - I'm using the following strategy:
>>>>
>>>> on keydown key
>>>>   if key = space then
>>>>     put the currentTime of player "A" into Atime
>>>>     set lockscreen to true
>>>>     hide player "A"
>>>>     set the currentTime of player "B" to Atime
>>>>     show player "B"
>>>>     start player "B"
>>>>     set lockscreen to false
>>>>   else pass keyDown
>>>> end keydown
>>>>
>>>> ...but this results in a rather noticeable delay between the clips.
>>>
>>> Hi Jason,
>>>
>>> I modified your program slightly.  The main thing I noticed was to 
>>> take
>>> out the lock screen.  This made things pretty snappy.  The faster the
>>> computer, the faster the transition.  I put this code at the card 
>>> level.
>>>
>>> on keydown thekey
>>>   put thekey
>>>   if thekey = "1" then
>>>     stop player "B"
>>>     put the currentTime of player "B" into Atime
>>>     hide player "B"
>>>     set the currentTime of player "A" to Atime
>>>     show player "A"
>>>     start player "A"
>>>   end if
>>>
>>>   if thekey = "2" then
>>>     stop player "A"
>>>     put the currentTime of player "A" into Atime
>>>     hide player "A"
>>>     set the currentTime of player "B" to Atime
>>>     show player "B"
>>>     start player "B"
>>>   end if
>>>   pass keyDown
>>> end keydown
>>    Speaking as an amateur with a fetish for minimizing the number of
>
>> lines of
>> code, I'd be interested to see if the following modification of your
>
>> handler
>> is any better or worse than your code...
>>
>> on keydown thekey
>>   put thekey
>>   switch theKey
>>     case 1
>>       put "B" into OldPlay
>>       put "lay
>>   put the currentTime of player OldPlay into Atime
>>   hide player OldPlay
>>   set the currentTime of player NuPlay to Atime
>>   show player NuPlay
>>   start player NuPlay
>>
>>   pass keyDown
>> end keydown
>>
>
>I took at guess and made :  put "lay   ---> put "A" into "NuPlay"
>In any case, this will not toggle the videos.  It will start the first
>video and nothing more.  Hitting 1 will only restart the video.  But 
>yes, it is shorter than my solution.
   For whatever mysterious reason, some of my code vanished into the ether -- 
I mean, where did the "end switch" go, for cryin' out loud!? Let's see if I 
can get it right this time...

on keydown thekey
  put thekey
  switch theKey
    case 1
      put "B" into OldPlay
      put "A" into NuPlay
    case 2
      put "A" into OldPlay
      put "B" into NuPlay
  end switch

  stop player OldPlay
  put the currentTime of player OldPlay into Atime
  hide player OldPlay
  set the currentTime of player NuPlay to Atime
  show player NuPlay
  start player NuPlay

  pass keyDown
end keydown

   Does *this* work better or worse than the original code?

From userev at canelasoftware.com  Wed Aug 25 00:15:41 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:15:41 -0700
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
Message-ID: <6D92C606-F64D-11D8-A5CD-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

I just posted the pertinent code to my cell routine at:
http://www.canelasoftware.com/pub/rev/datagrid.rev.sit

I also update RevNet once version 2.0 is done.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 25 00:23:45 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:23:45 -0700
Subject: Right click menu on Windows
In-Reply-To: <D7C87A6E-F636-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <8DB8AFBD-F64E-11D8-BCC1-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 06:34 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Why do you want to simulate a key combination? Wouldn't it be easier 
> just to have your popup menu use the "copy", "paste", "cut" & "undo" 
> commands directly?
>
> Sarah

They don't work for some reason that I can't understand. The keyboard 
commands for Control-C, and Control-V work perfectly but when I do a 
menuPick from a popup menu it didn't work. I spent hours on this. 
Perhaps I missed something. I just wanted a right-click menuPick to 
work on the selected text in a field of the same stack. It was 
suggested to use an offScreen button like this:

> Create a popup button with the menus you need and put it offscreen...
> (I think hiding the button does only work on a mac...?)
>
> Then script:
>
> on mousedown whatmouse
>    if whatmouse = 3 then ## right- or control-click!
>      popup btn "you btn here"
>   end if
> end mousedown
>

In the right-click menuPick I tried copy & paste. Perhaps I'll try one 
more time. I gave up on turning the locktext or textlock true and then 
false.

So I just tried now and with the mousedown handler moved from the text 
field to the stack the handler opens the popup menu but I lose the 
selection so there is nothing for the cammands to work on now.

Maybe I'll figure that out soon.

Mark


From themacguy at macosx.com  Wed Aug 25 00:30:58 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:30:58 -0600
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 92
In-Reply-To: <20040822160023.CB30C9300D6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD517222.2509%themacguy@macosx.com>

Fair enough but where, pray tell, is one to find "version 4.x"? A search at
ms.com revealed nothing.

Thanks,
Barry

On 8/22/04 10:00 AM, MisterX allegedly flung into the void:

> Subject: RE: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?

> I think there is something about it in the readme...
> 
> It's in the what's new actually
> 
> 
> Issue:  On Windows systems, the Speech library is not yet compatible with
> version
> 5.x of Microsoft's speech software.
> Workaround:  Use version 4.x instead.



From themacguy at macosx.com  Wed Aug 25 00:34:17 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:34:17 -0600
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
In-Reply-To: <20040824195822.7176F9300D7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD5172E9.250B%themacguy@macosx.com>

I'm at the tail end of two years using Rev and we haven't had speech on
WindowsXP. I'm getting ready to move to RealBasic simply because of this
issue. Frankly, I'm quite hesitant to pony up any more $$ for Rev if this
isn't fixed.

Barry

On 8/24/04 1:58 PM, Judy allegedly flung into the void:
> 
> Not to be excessively grouchy, but, hasn't this been the case for a good
> year or more already?




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Aug 25 00:59:17 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 06:59:17 +0200
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <0A096B9A-F623-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEFAGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Meitnik at aol.com wrote:

> -- UM, what a minute. If RR gave me all the tools to do it, yeah, I
> would rool my own. But after so many years, I have yet seen anyone
> really make a true data grid that general enough as a tool for all to
> customize. I think 100 pluse votes says much.

Well, it's been available in my DiscreteBrowser since last year!
It's as easy as
set the tabstops of fld myfieldname to FindTabStops(myfieldname)

And the stack source is still opened! Unfortunately due to a serie of
issues with GM, html-based images, unfinished features, stack corruption
I havent released an upgrade. Im in the process of retesting a newer
browser.

Here it is a self configuring self sizing tabstop finder
I created it to translate the HTML Tables in the discrete browser
to a RR grid depending on the formattedwidth of the text in these
columns.

http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=44

I've commented the function for the occasion.
Look in the comments for what is configurable.

  -- tool using this should check that maxfwt is ok
  -- in case the field had no tab characters
  -- example
  put FindTabStops(myfieldname) into maxfwt
  if maxfwt is not empty and item 1 of maxfwt is not 0
  then set the tabStops of fld fldname to maxfwt

function FindTabStops fldname
  local maxfw=0,txtsize
  local fldwidthdiv2, sourcelines
  local ht
  local maxtabs=2, maxtabline=1
  local ftxtsize

  put the textheight of fld fldname into txtsize
  put the width of fld fldname div 2 into fldwidthdiv2
  put the number of lines in fld fldname into sourcelines

  put fld fldname into ht

  set the itemdelimiter to tab
  -- find the largest formattedwidths for each column and line
   repeat with y = 1 to sourcelines
    get the number of items in line y of ht
    if it > maxtabs then
      put y into maxtabline
      put it into maxtabs
    end if
  end repeat

  -- you can customize the default width of your columns here.
  -- note the local variable "defaultwidth" created problems with
  -- RR script compiler before 2.5

  local defaltwidth=100, lcount

  -- optional auto configuration for defaultwidth
  --put (the width of fld fldname) div maxtabs-1 into defaltwidth
  put the fontsize of fld fldname into ftxtsize
  if ftxtsize is empty then put 12 into ftxtsize
  repeat with x = 1 to maxtabs
    put defaltwidth into item x of maxfw
  end repeat
  -- now, for each line
  repeat with y = 1 to sourcelines
    --set cursor to busy -- slows things down on large scripts
    put the number of items in line y of ht into lcount
    if lcount < 2 then next repeat
    -- for each item, find the best or custom fit
    repeat with l = 1 to lcount
      get the formattedwidth of item l of line y of fld fldname
      if it < defaltwidth then get defaltwidth
      if it > item l of maxfw then
        put it into item l of maxfw
      end if
    end repeat
  end repeat

  -- if a column is suposed to be center or right adjusted
  -- you can put a loop per line to pad with spaces here.

  local maxfwt,maxitems,lastit
  put the number of items in maxfw into maxitems
  put 0 into lastit
  repeat with x = 1 to maxitems
   -- note the different settings you can have in this loop
   -- this is the where you define if a column is fixed or not.
   get item x of maxfw
    if x = 1 then
      put it+10 & comma after maxfwt -- here we set a fixed width if we know
the column
      --put it & comma after maxfwt -- a small offset can help
      else if x = maxitems then
      put it + 1000 after maxfwt -- last item has a larger width so it is
not visible
    else
      get it + 12 + lastit -- normal width
      put it & comma after maxfwt
    end if
    put it into lastit
  end repeat
  -- delete last char of maxfwt
  return maxfwt
end FindTabStops

-- FindTabstops will always return a list of items equal to the number
   of tab delimited columns as found in the field in question.
-- Some columns may not be correctly set - Im aware of this issue and
   despite tweaking this function for each app, it remains a mistery why.
   I suspect a formattedWidth problem - an explanation is truely welcome!
--
So instead of wasting votes on RR non-issues, please vote for my bugs and
if you can explain the reason why Form...Wid.. is not always correct, im
interested! ;)

The other solution and surely it's been explored in the list is to create
vertical column fields which you can directly align left right center which
is even better.

The last solution is to use the format function - but it doesn't respect
alignment either.

If you check most of my tool including WinN2O, pieControl, etc... they all
use the same 2 fields, autotabstops, and autosort columns.

Why customize when you can automate?

cheers
Xavier

--
http://MonsieurX.com
A virtual garage for revolutionary tools
RR Plugins, applications, links and tips
--


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug 25 01:29:33 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:29:33 -0700
Subject: Open Directory reminder
Message-ID: <412C23BD.9040806@fourthworld.com>

A lot of great new Rev sites have come up in the last few months, so I 
just wanted to offer this reminder of the Open Directory category for 
Transcript:

<http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Transcript/>

Open Directory is the world's leading human-edited directory, and helps 
feed major search engines like Google and others.

Adding your Rev page to Open Directory listing for Transcript will help 
others find it more easily, and it's easy to do:  just click the 
"Suggest Url" link at the top of that page and fill in the very brief 
form.

The section is editor for that page is amazingly efficient, so you may 
see your site listed in as little as 48 hours.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From briany at qldlearning.com  Wed Aug 25 01:11:43 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 01:11:43 -0400
Subject: Right click menu on Windows
In-Reply-To: <8DB8AFBD-F64E-11D8-BCC1-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4169F842-F655-11D8-BE7F-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

This sounds like your popup menu is grabbing the focus from the field. 
What happens if you set the traversalOn (is that the right property 
name) to false for that menu button?

> So I just tried now and with the mousedown handler moved from the text 
> field to the stack the handler opens the popup menu but I lose the 
> selection so there is nothing for the cammands to work on now.
>
> Maybe I'll figure that out soon.
-------------------------------------
Brian Yennie
Chief Technology Officer
QLD Learning, LLC
(941)-928-7127
briany at qldlearning.com
--------------------------------------


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Aug 25 03:50:05 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:50:05 +0200
Subject: Open Directory reminder
In-Reply-To: <412C23BD.9040806@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEFBGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Thanks Richard!

It would also help if all the Rev, MC and HC oriented sites would update their
links once in a while. Many have outdated links, missing lots of new links
to. And if one thing works in search engines, it's linking and adding weight
to sites that cross reference given some search topics.

Adding metatags in your html pages also helps but you have to do it for them
all pages (php or rev.cgi headers anyone?)

cheers!
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Richard
> Gaskin
> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 07:30
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Open Directory reminder
> 
> 
> A lot of great new Rev sites have come up in the last few months, so I 
> just wanted to offer this reminder of the Open Directory category for 
> Transcript:
> 
> <http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Transcript/>
> 
> Open Directory is the world's leading human-edited directory, and helps 
> feed major search engines like Google and others.
> 
> Adding your Rev page to Open Directory listing for Transcript will help 
> others find it more easily, and it's easy to do:  just click the 
> "Suggest Url" link at the top of that page and fill in the very brief 
> form.
> 
> The section is editor for that page is amazingly efficient, so you may 
> see your site listed in as little as 48 hours.
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   ___________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From 36degrees at runrev.com  Wed Aug 25 03:51:56 2004
From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:51:56 +0100 (BST)
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <56E89822-F5F8-11D8-AA2A-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0408250833050.9054@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com>

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> I am building a little project manager here. I would like to be able to
> show a calendar like control so that the user could grasp the big
> picture of his project, like iCal and MS Project do. I am finding the
> ...

Just to add my two-pence to the mix...

You may also want to have a look at the 'lists' in the Revolution Online
Learning Center (e.g. Learning Center -> Video Tutorials -> All) - this is
effectively a custom table view that uses individual fields for each cell.
It's basically just a group that responds to custom properties and a
handful of messages - it is also entirely devoid of instructions/comments
at the moment, but figuring out how things work is part of the fun, isn't
it? ;o)

It could be optimized somewhat, and made more 'complete' - but it
exemplifies one way of doing things.

Anyway, if it looks useful, I'll happily rip it out of revOnline, clean it
up and make a more user-friendly example stack out of it as soon as I get
the chance.

Best wishes,

Mark.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
  Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees @ runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
       Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools



From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Wed Aug 25 04:07:11 2004
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ludovic_Th=E9bault?=)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:07:11 +0200
Subject: Rev equivalent to the php imageColorset ?
Message-ID: <20040825100711753501.GyazMail.ludovic.thebault@laposte.net>

Hello,

I want to change the color of "sectors" of an png picture.

Each sector of the picture have an unique color.

With php, and the imageColorSet function, i can replace one color by an 
other in this picture, and colorize each "sector" as i want.

How do this with Rev (2.1) ? I think i need to use imagedata but i 
didn't understand how.

Thanks.

PS : If a frenchie known the response, he could post in the french rev 
list (my english is bad !)

Ludovic

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Aug 25 05:30:38 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:30:38 +0200
Subject: playing wavs in RR
In-Reply-To: <20040825100711753501.GyazMail.ludovic.thebault@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEFCGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

I found the problem with wavs playing in RR without the help of
QuickTime. 

Play wavfilepath

Lucky to have a few GBs of samples for FruityLoops that I can
use in RR for effects, I tried a few and some passed and some
didn't. Well, in windows, you can display a column in the explorer's
details (or in the open file dialog) that displays the bitrate.

If the bitrate is above 512, it works! I'll raise a Bugzilla for it.
Can anyone confirm this on Macs or Linux? I can send you a couple 
samples to test if you want.

cheers
Xavier

From ptrendler at bigpond.com  Wed Aug 25 07:38:54 2004
From: ptrendler at bigpond.com (Pat Trendler)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:38:54 +1000
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 92 SAPI SDK 4
References: <BD517222.2509%themacguy@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c48a98$2a615360$b000a8c0@mshome.net>

Barry,

http://www.microsoft.com/speech/download/old/sdk40a.asp

You need to download the SAPI SDK 4 Suite.exe  40 MB (not the other
downloads listed there they don't contain the speech engine)


Pat


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Barry Levine" <themacguy at macosx.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 92


> Fair enough but where, pray tell, is one to find "version 4.x"? A search
at
> ms.com revealed nothing.
>
> Thanks,
> Barry
>
> On 8/22/04 10:00 AM, MisterX allegedly flung into the void:
>
> > Subject: RE: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
>
> > I think there is something about it in the readme...
> >
> > It's in the what's new actually
> >
> >
> > Issue:  On Windows systems, the Speech library is not yet compatible
with
> > version
> > 5.x of Microsoft's speech software.
> > Workaround:  Use version 4.x instead.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From alex at harryscollar.com  Wed Aug 25 08:01:04 2004
From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:01:04 +1000
Subject: Rev as memory-resident database
In-Reply-To: <20040825012918.253FC93011F@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040825012918.253FC93011F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040825213849.02767670@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>

hi,

I stumbled upon an old /. article just recently..

http://slashdot.org/features/01/05/03/1434242.shtml

.. "An OODBMS is thus a full scale object oriented development environment 
as well as a database management system."

That of course made me think of rev but I've also been thinking about more 
about using rev as my standard database system.. on 32-bit machines that's 
4G (realistically probably 2-3G) of memory space.  For the sort of systems 
i'm building that's quite a bit, and of course old info can be archived etc

With memory so cheap these days the idea of a rev combo server/database 
seems quite feasible..

Memory-resident should mean quick access .. i mean you do away with all the 
complications and extra plumbing needed to plug into external databases.

Has anyone actually tested rev performance on a high memory machine?

Having dreams at the moment of decking out a 64-bit linux machine with some 
G-sticks :)

regards
alex





From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Wed Aug 25 08:45:39 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:45:39 -0300
Subject: Lost the list???
Message-ID: <BD521042.9E56%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Don?t know what?s happened but I haven?t gotten any emails for 24 hours.  Is
the list down?  Jim
-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139





From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 25 09:12:04 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:04 -0400
Subject: playing wavs in RR
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEFCGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEFCGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <5C333C32-F698-11D8-9E45-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

 >>>Can anyone confirm this on Macs or Linux? I can send you a couple
> samples to test if you want.

I'll be glad to try it out on my Mac if you send me some samples.  I 
assume you are talking about using sounds as referenced files, correct. 
As I've posted before, if wav is embedded in the stack, I have no 
problem playing it simply by using play "applause"

M
On Aug 25, 2004, at 5:30 AM, MisterX wrote:

> I found the problem with wavs playing in RR without the help of
> QuickTime.
>
> Play wavfilepath
>
> Lucky to have a few GBs of samples for FruityLoops that I can
> use in RR for effects, I tried a few and some passed and some
> didn't. Well, in windows, you can display a column in the explorer's
> details (or in the open file dialog) that displays the bitrate.
>
> If the bitrate is above 512, it works! I'll raise a Bugzilla for it.
> Can anyone confirm this on Macs or Linux? I can send you a couple
> samples to test if you want.
>
> cheers
> Xavier
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 25 09:19:46 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 06:19:46 -0700
Subject: Right click menu on Windows
In-Reply-To: <4169F842-F655-11D8-BE7F-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <6F89A073-F699-11D8-97C5-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 10:11 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:

>  What happens if you set the traversalOn

Ah! That reminds me of my rock-climbing days. This is a case of hearing 
about setting the traversalOn and forgetting why. Perhaps it would be 
better to say "get your arhs out there." Well, better you than me that 
is.

I'll try that.

Thanks,

Mark


From SimPLsol at aol.com  Wed Aug 25 09:43:39 2004
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:43:39 EDT
Subject: Rev as memory-resident database
Message-ID: <d8.12c1c434.2e5df18b@aol.com>

We have been experimenting with small databases (50 to 100 meg.) and, so far, 
like the results. It takes a long time to load the data into RAM and a long 
time to save it back to disk in Rev. but while it is in RAM it runs FAST.
A modern computer should be able to hold many large databases in memory.
I think archives, for most companies, probably do not need to be loaded into 
memory. They can be accessed from disk (which in Rev. means being loaded into 
RAM) as needed (and purged from memory when closed).
Initially we were quite concerned about the volatility of RAM. But 
solid-state memory (with proper UPS backup) is probably safer than a mechanical 
Winchester disk.
Keep in touch.
Paul Looney

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Aug 25 09:45:01 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 06:45:01 -0700
Subject: Rev as memory-resident database
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040825213849.02767670@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <20040825012918.253FC93011F@mail.runrev.com>
 <6.1.2.0.0.20040825213849.02767670@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <a05100300bd5246ac4465@[66.52.165.41]>

>Has anyone actually tested rev performance on a high memory machine?

Hi Alex,

Not on a particularly high memory machine: 768 MB G4 iMac supporting 
a 45 MB, 43K-record SDB database stack.  Retrieval time for one 
record by key value via binary search is < 1 second.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 25 09:51:46 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 06:51:46 -0700
Subject: Right click menu on Windows
In-Reply-To: <6F89A073-F699-11D8-97C5-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E7BD38FA-F69D-11D8-97C5-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, August 25, 2004, at 06:19 AM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 10:11 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:
>
>>  What happens if you set the traversalOn
>
> I'll try that.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark

It works perfect now.



From Meitnik at aol.com  Wed Aug 25 10:00:15 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:00:15 EDT
Subject: speech and rev
Message-ID: <a1.4c38f052.2e5df56f@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/25/04 9:48:11 AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> I'm at the tail end of two years using Rev and we haven't had speech on
> WindowsXP. I'm getting ready to move to RealBasic simply because of this
> issue. Frankly, I'm quite hesitant to pony up any more $$ for Rev if this
> isn't fixed.
> -- I hear you! I need speech for my disabled users but if its not there for 
both mac/windows by Nov 1, then I too will need to move on to RB. I already got 
burned on revxml not working under win95 because it just was not tested by 
RR, am not about to get hurt again on speech. If RR has an dll, library that 
suppose to work on older OS, than test it please ,or document when it breaks 
instead of having paid users find out for you.Or, Admit its not been tested and 
warn users ;-)

Andrew




From lestond at lpsoftware.com  Wed Aug 25 10:33:41 2004
From: lestond at lpsoftware.com (Leston Drake)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:33:41 -0600
Subject: application could not be found ERROR
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040825083132.03ad1ec8@mail.xmission.com>

Hi,

I'm building a standalone. Running Rev 2.2.1.1 for OS9 on MacOSX machine 
(in Classic emulation).

I build a FAT distribution file. Rev says it is created successfully.

When I try to launch the file I get the error "The application WW1 could 
not be opened because WW1 could not be found." Tried running the same file 
from a PPC, got the same error (WW1 is the name of my file).

Any ideas?
TIA

Leston



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Aug 25 11:17:00 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:17:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: playing wavs in RR
In-Reply-To: <5C333C32-F698-11D8-9E45-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408250816270.17830-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I've had problems with some wavs, on both macs & pcs...

Judy

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Marian Petrides wrote:

> I'll be glad to try it out on my Mac if you send me some samples.  I
> assume you are talking about using sounds as referenced files, correct.
> As I've posted before, if wav is embedded in the stack, I have no
> problem playing it simply by using play "applause"


From tuviah at runrev.com  Wed Aug 25 12:14:07 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:14:07 -0400
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 101
References: <20040825160142.84AC6930106@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000501c48abe$8cfb5f40$1602a8c0@athlon>

> I'm at the tail end of two years using Rev and we haven't had speech on
> WindowsXP. I'm getting ready to move to RealBasic simply because of this
> issue.
RB has text to speech and is SAPI5 compatible, what?

> Frankly, I'm quite hesitant to pony up any more $$ for Rev if this
> isn't fixed.
> -- I hear you! I need speech for my disabled users but if its not there
for
>both mac/windows by Nov 1, then I too will need to move on to RB. I already
got
>burned on revxml not working under win95 because it just was not tested by
>RR, am not about to get hurt again on speech. If RR has an dll, library
that
>suppose to work on older OS, than test it please ,or document when it
breaks
>instead of having paid users find out for you.Or, Admit its not been tested
and
>warn users ;-)
SAPI 4 can co-exist with SAPI 5. As it stands I do have code to get text to
speech working with SAPI 5, see if I can squeeze it in between now and
release. I'm just wondering what bugzilla number is this, and why hasn't it
been voted on or marked critical?!

WRT XML working on Win95, that's on my to-do list and needs to be resolve
before final.

Best,
Tuviah


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Aug 25 12:25:52 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:25:52 -0600
Subject: Modal app
Message-ID: <6EFF9452-F6B3-11D8-90E0-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

I'm writing an OS X app which should only appear as a modal window. I 
tried

modal this stack

in the openStack handler. It works in the IDE but not as a standalone. 
Is there some trick I don't know about? Can a mainstack window be 
modal?

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 25 12:46:15 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:46:15 +0200
Subject: Modal app
In-Reply-To: <6EFF9452-F6B3-11D8-90E0-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <6EFF9452-F6B3-11D8-90E0-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <479708F0-F6B6-11D8-A3C5-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Devin,

> I'm writing an OS X app which should only appear as a modal window. I 
> tried
>
> modal this stack
>
> in the openStack handler. It works in the IDE but not as a standalone. 
> Is there some trick I don't know about? Can a mainstack window be 
> modal?

Try:

on preopenstack
    set the style of this stack to modal
    ...
    ...
end preopenstack


Looks the same, but worked for me :-)


Hope that helps...

> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Wed Aug 25 12:53:30 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:53:30 -0700
Subject: switching between movies
In-Reply-To: <77.31a61aee.2e5d5eb0@aol.com>
References: <77.31a61aee.2e5d5eb0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4ADAC243-F6B7-11D8-982B-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 24, 2004, at 8:17 PM, Cubist at aol.com wrote:

>    For whatever mysterious reason, some of my code vanished into the 
> ether --
> I mean, where did the "end switch" go, for cryin' out loud!? Let's see 
> if I
> can get it right this time...
>
> on keydown thekey
>   put thekey
>   switch theKey
>     case 1
>       put "B" into OldPlay
>       put "A" into NuPlay
>     case 2
>       put "A" into OldPlay
>       put "B" into NuPlay
>   end switch
>
>   stop player OldPlay
>   put the currentTime of player OldPlay into Atime
>   hide player OldPlay
>   set the currentTime of player NuPlay to Atime
>   show player NuPlay
>   start player NuPlay
>
>   pass keyDown
> end keydown
>
>    Does *this* work better or worse than the original code?


This is very clean.  The only thing to remember is that you need 
"breaks" to close out each "case".  The other issues is that if a user 
clicks on any other key besides a one or a two, you will get an error.  
The speed issues feels the same as the code I posted.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Aug 25 14:10:40 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:10:40 -0800
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
In-Reply-To: <20040825134333.C052193012D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD52161D.765A%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 8/25/04 5:43 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:34:17 -0600
> From: Barry Levine <themacguy at macosx.com>
> Subject: RE: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
> 
> I'm at the tail end of two years using Rev and we haven't had speech on
> WindowsXP. I'm getting ready to move to RealBasic simply because of this
> issue. Frankly, I'm quite hesitant to pony up any more $$ for Rev if this
> isn't fixed.

I'm afraid I find myself in nearly exactly the same position. Many of my
continuing adaptiveware projects depend on speech/voice feedback, which I've
never been able to make work under Rev and XP.

Ken N.


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Aug 25 13:11:23 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:11:23 -0600
Subject: Modal app
In-Reply-To: <479708F0-F6B6-11D8-A3C5-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <6EFF9452-F6B3-11D8-90E0-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
 <479708F0-F6B6-11D8-A3C5-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CA740660-F6B9-11D8-90E0-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Klaus,

On Aug 25, 2004, at 10:46 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Devin,
>
>> I'm writing an OS X app which should only appear as a modal window. I 
>> tried
>>
>> modal this stack
>>
>> in the openStack handler. It works in the IDE but not as a 
>> standalone. Is there some trick I don't know about? Can a mainstack 
>> window be modal?
>
> Try:
>
> on preopenstack
>    set the style of this stack to modal
>    ...
>    ...
> end preopenstack
>
>
> Looks the same, but worked for me :-)
>
>
> Hope that helps...
>
Thanks. It worked like a charm.

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From JaysLists at triad.rr.com  Wed Aug 25 13:20:45 2004
From: JaysLists at triad.rr.com (Jay Madren)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:20:45 -0400
Subject: Rev as memory-resident database
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bd5246ac4465@[66.52.165.41]>
Message-ID: <NDBBIGHFGLCPMCDMJOHHIEJKEAAA.JaysLists@triad.rr.com>

That's not really a good benchmark, unless you report the time in ms.
Accessing a record by key value in any good database should always be < 1
second.  Using SQL Server running on my 733mhz PIII desktop with 256 MB ram
(not a server - they call it their Desktop Database), I can retrieve one
record from a 22 MB, 97K-record table by key value (index) in 10 ms.

Now, if you are _not_ talking about indexes when you say key value, then
that would be more impressive (versus a disk-based db).  But it still needs
to be quantified more precisely.

Jay Madren

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Rob Cozens
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 09:45
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Rev as memory-resident database


>Has anyone actually tested rev performance on a high memory machine?

Hi Alex,

Not on a particularly high memory machine: 768 MB G4 iMac supporting
a 45 MB, 43K-record SDB database stack.  Retrieval time for one
record by key value via binary search is < 1 second.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Wed Aug 25 13:22:32 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:22:32 -0400
Subject: Rev as memory-resident database
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040825213849.02767670@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <20040825012918.253FC93011F@mail.runrev.com>
	<6.1.2.0.0.20040825213849.02767670@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <59442D18-F6BB-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Most operating systems split that 4GB address space roughly in half.  
2GB is reserved for the operating system (not half of the physical 
memory, but half of the addresses which can be assigned to the memory), 
and a unique 2GB address space is provided for each process.  Some of 
that "unique" 2GB address space, toward the beginning and sometimes 
toward the end, is often (intentionally) unusable, in an effort to help 
track bugs in software (there is a reason for this, and it is 
legitimate; if you have (C/C++/Pascal/etc.) programming experience, 
consider NULL pointer dereferences...)   This takes away another 
hundred K or so, and more is taken away by Revolution, by any 
user-level runtime libraries & DLLs referenced by Revolution (both the 
engine and the IDE need to be in that memory space).  Add to this the 
stack code and layout information, any runtime data tracked by 
revolution, global & local variables and properties, your Transcript 
code, and so on...   You don't really have that much memory addressing 
space available for your data.

Note that some operating systems (including some specially configured 
versions of W2K/XP) will allow 3GB of addressing space per process, and 
reserve only 1GB for the operating system.

If your data is larger than 1-1.25GB, do not expect it to fit into a 
32-bit addressing space, even if you have 4GB of RAM and no other 
running programs.  If you have one of those specially configured 
Windows systems (or a similarly configured OS of some other kind -- 
does anyone know if Linux or BSD can be configured that way?), you 
might get 2-2.25GB, maybe a little more, but these numbers are rough 
approximations.  Leave yourself more room than you think you'll need.

Also, even on a 64-bit computer, if Rev is not built to run as a 64-bit 
program, you will still be limited to the 32-bit address space.  And if 
the stack file is too large for the filesystem constraints, you will 
not be able to save it to disk, even if you have a 64-bit address space 
to make use of... many filesystems place a limit on the size of any one 
single file.

So in short, 2-3GB is not necessarily realistic for a 32-bit system ;-)


On Aug 25, 2004, at 8:01 AM, Alex Shaw wrote:

> hi,
>
> I stumbled upon an old /. article just recently..
>
> http://slashdot.org/features/01/05/03/1434242.shtml
>
> .. "An OODBMS is thus a full scale object oriented development 
> environment as well as a database management system."
>
> That of course made me think of rev but I've also been thinking about 
> more about using rev as my standard database system.. on 32-bit 
> machines that's 4G (realistically probably 2-3G) of memory space.  For 
> the sort of systems i'm building that's quite a bit, and of course old 
> info can be archived etc
>
> With memory so cheap these days the idea of a rev combo 
> server/database seems quite feasible..
>
> Memory-resident should mean quick access .. i mean you do away with 
> all the complications and extra plumbing needed to plug into external 
> databases.
>
> Has anyone actually tested rev performance on a high memory machine?
>
> Having dreams at the moment of decking out a 64-bit linux machine with 
> some G-sticks :)
>
> regards
> alex
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



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From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Aug 25 13:25:34 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:25:34 -0600
Subject: Faceless apps in OS X - FYI
Message-ID: <C6091363-F6BB-11D8-90E0-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Ken Ray has this tip posted on his Web Site 
(http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/metacard/tips/proc003.htm)

--quote

  To hide an application process in OS X, open the Info.plist file in 
the Contents folder of the application package. Add this to the <dict> 
section (it doesn't seem to matter where):

<key>NSBGOnly</key>
<string>1</string>

  Doing this will remove the process from the Dock, and from any menus 
that list active (visible) processes. To show it again, you can either 
put in a 0 instead of a 1 for the <key>, or you can remove the whole 
thing.

--end quote

I tried it and it didn't work, then I noticed in the mail list archive 
that this apparently was broken in Panther. I searched Apple Developer 
web site and discovered that the name of the key has been changed to 
LSUIElement.

So insert the following to create a faceless application (one that 
doesn't appear in Force Quit list or in Dock):

<key> LSUIElement </key>
<string>1</string>

It's best to use the Property List Editor application to do this rather 
than a text editor.

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Aug 25 13:27:37 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:27:37 -0400
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
Message-ID: <OF68069033.189AD38E-ON85256EFB.005F140C@sealedair.com>

On Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:34:17, Barry Levine <themacguy at macosx.com> 
wrote:
> Subject: RE: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
>
> I'm at the tail end of two years using Rev and we haven't had speech on
> WindowsXP. I'm getting ready to move to RealBasic simply because of this
> issue. Frankly, I'm quite hesitant to pony up any more $$ for Rev if 
this
> isn't fixed.

It is very frustrating to see "key" features left behind for so long just 
because Microsoft decided to move forward. If Apple had done the same 
thing, I would bet that RunRev would have made it work in the very next 
version. Asking the end user to downgrade their speech sdk as a workaround 
is totally wrong!

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Aug 25 13:54:22 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:54:22 -0600
Subject: Faceless apps in OS X - FYI
In-Reply-To: <C6091363-F6BB-11D8-90E0-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <C6091363-F6BB-11D8-90E0-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <CBB30925-F6BF-11D8-99AD-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 25, 2004, at 11:25 AM, Devin Asay wrote:

> I tried it and it didn't work, then I noticed in the mail list archive 
> that this apparently was broken in Panther. I searched Apple Developer 
> web site and discovered that the name of the key has been changed to 
> LSUIElement.

Do you think both can be set without invoking some strange behavior?

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Aug 25 14:01:27 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:01:27 -0700
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
In-Reply-To: <OF68069033.189AD38E-ON85256EFB.005F140C@sealedair.com>
References: <OF68069033.189AD38E-ON85256EFB.005F140C@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <C8CB6F9C-F6C0-11D8-9B9D-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

This is a perfect example of why making a cross-platform tool is so 
hard that very few people who have attempted it have succeeded. Every 
OS, every platform, every deployment configuration is a moving target 
that the tool maker has to try to keep up with despite having 
absolutely no input into or control over how the makers of those 
substrates go about their business of innovation and development.

I suppose that every one of us could come up with a list of things that 
we wish Rev would do. High on my list, e.g., is the ability to have 
truly styled text and styled text editing in fields. One of my dream 
apps demands this. But creating such a tool that would work across just 
the three primary platforms -- Mac OS X, Windows XP, and the core 
distribution of Linux -- would be a HUGE undertaking. (I know; I've 
read specs for it from other developers). Does that mean I am ready or 
willing even to CONSIDER abandoning the best development tool I've ever 
seen for 90% of my work? Or does it mean that I acknowledge that no 
tool, no matter how good it is, will ALWAYS have holes, will always 
have applications for which it simply isn't suited, and either to 
choose not to develop applications for which my favorite tool isn't a 
good choice or find a different tool that will work for what I want to 
do?

So-called "real programmers" always have two or more languages in their 
tool box. I don't know of any tool that is ideally suited for all kinds 
of applications.

Those who say that if Rev doesn't implement this or that feature, 
they're going to abandon it and move to RealBASIC or some other tool 
are apparently committed to developing applications for which RunRev is 
not the best choice. I say we should wish those people Godspeed and 
send them on their way to a tool that WILL do what they want. Their 
departure isn't a signal that there is something fundamentally wrong 
with Rev, only an acknowledgment that Rev is like all other tools: 
great for a lot of things, not so good for some.

On the other hand, if the tool maker commits to making a particular 
technology or technique work within their tool across the supported 
platform set, then the company owes its developers one of two things: 
completion of the work in a satisfactory manner or a clear statement 
that it will either never happen or won't be a near-term priority. The 
only real mistake that can be made here, from my viewpoint, is for the 
company to try to hold on to developers whose needs it will not clearly 
be able to meet in a reasonable time horizon. This does everyone a 
disservice. (Note that I'm not saying that's happened here; I don't 
rely on synthetic speech for my applications so I am not aware of all 
the history and the issues.)

I now return you to your regularly scheduled conversation.


On Aug 25, 2004, at 10:27 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> On Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:34:17, Barry Levine <themacguy at macosx.com>
> wrote:
>> Subject: RE: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
>>
>> I'm at the tail end of two years using Rev and we haven't had speech 
>> on
>> WindowsXP. I'm getting ready to move to RealBasic simply because of 
>> this
>> issue. Frankly, I'm quite hesitant to pony up any more $$ for Rev if
> this
>> isn't fixed.
>
> It is very frustrating to see "key" features left behind for so long 
> just
> because Microsoft decided to move forward. If Apple had done the same
> thing, I would bet that RunRev would have made it work in the very next
> version. Asking the end user to downgrade their speech sdk as a 
> workaround
> is totally wrong!
>
> Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Wed Aug 25 14:19:25 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:19:25 -0400
Subject: Database Problems w/ Linux Standalones...
In-Reply-To: <A0125BDC-F61F-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
References: <OFA0D13470.FDF18878-ON85256EFA.006CBCF0@sealedair.com>
	<9C76FF5A-F60A-11D8-9743-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<A0125BDC-F61F-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <4B6A5903-F6C3-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Okay, here is an example of what is happening.

The attached revolution file contains a button and a text field (used 
as a debugging log type of thing).

Again, I use Studio version 2.2.1 under Mac OS X, and I built three 
versions of the standalone: Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux.

The Windows and Mac OS X versions work "as advertised", but the Linux 
version seems to exit the handlers after dumping the first line of text 
to the log field.  If I comment out the line with the revOpenDatabase 
and uncomment the second line, then it does not try to connect, so the 
rest of the script works fine.

I could understand better if I was getting an error message back from 
revOpenDatabase, but *all* running handlers seem to be exiting -- not 
just the one containing the function call.

If it would help, I could *try* to get a Solaris/SPARC or Irix opinion 
on the issue, but it will take some time, as I will need to set up the 
hardware (I have those systems disconnected right now), and I don't 
think I even have Solaris installed on my SparcStation (it would be 
version 8, on my painfully slow SS LX).

On Aug 24, 2004, at 6:47 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:

> Yes, but even after I changed the text to all lower-case, it still 
> doesn't work.
>
> I hadn't even thought of the case sensitivity -- good catch, but still 
> not working  :-(
>
> On Aug 24, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:59 PM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
>>
>>> Linux just seems
>>> to be more case-sensitive than Mac or Win.
>>
>> That would be because it is.  ;-)
>> --
>> Troy
>> RPSystems, Ltd.
>> http://www.rpsystems.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
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> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Aug 25 15:24:41 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:24:41 -0500
Subject: Faceless apps in OS X - FYI
In-Reply-To: <C6091363-F6BB-11D8-90E0-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <BD5251A9.4799%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/25/04 12:25 PM, "Devin Asay" <devin_asay at byu.edu> wrote:

> <key>NSBGOnly</key>
> <string>1</string>
>
> So insert the following to create a faceless application (one that
> doesn't appear in Force Quit list or in Dock):
> 
> <key> LSUIElement </key>
> <string>1</string>
> 
> It's best to use the Property List Editor application to do this rather
> than a text editor.

Thanks for the update, Devin... I'll update my tip accordingly!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Aug 25 13:49:24 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:49:24 -0400
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX 
In-Reply-To: <105.4ebfcb3c.2e59b48f@aol.com>
References: <105.4ebfcb3c.2e59b48f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <19FB8D2E-F6BF-11D8-9DB5-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>

Is it possible to set the loc of a stack before it is opened? I have a 
template stack which I use to create clones from, so it has to be 
called on-screen in order to do the clone operation. When this goes on, 
there is a pretty unsightly flash of the stack appearing, and then 
being quickly cloned and discarded. I'd like to call that stack 
on-screen, but actually have it off-screen... is the only way to 
resolve that flashing by placing scripts in the pre-open stack of the 
stack to be opened, or can I do it somehow from the calling stack?


On Aug 22, 2004, at 4:34 AM, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:

> Try  putting this script in the stack opening window...
>
> on preopenstack
>   setBuffer FALSE
> end preOpenStack
>
> on openStack
>   send "setBuffer TRUE" to me in 30
> end openStack
>
> on setBuffer flag
> set the alwaysBuffer of this stack to  flag
> if not flag then set the bottomRight of this stack to  -100,-100
> else set the loc of this stack to the screenLoc
> end  setBuffer
>
> This should solve the situation for any style of window. Please  let 
> me know.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Aug 25 16:13:51 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:13:51 -0700
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX 
In-Reply-To: <19FB8D2E-F6BF-11D8-9DB5-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD52410F.D029%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Troy Rollins"  wrote:

> Is it possible to set the loc of a stack before it is opened?

You should be able to set the loc in preOpenStack.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Aug 25 16:21:46 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:21:46 -0400
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX 
In-Reply-To: <BD52410F.D029%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BD52410F.D029%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <62EE9A70-F6D4-11D8-9DB5-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 25, 2004, at 4:13 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

>
>> Is it possible to set the loc of a stack before it is opened?
>
> You should be able to set the loc in preOpenStack.

I tried some of that. I guess the issue is not what I thought, but 
more-so the clone operation itself. It seems very difficult to avoid 
some kind of flash when a stack is cloned.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Aug 25 16:26:26 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:26:26 +0200
Subject: Database Problems w/ Linux Standalones...
In-Reply-To: <4B6A5903-F6C3-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
References: <OFA0D13470.FDF18878-ON85256EFA.006CBCF0@sealedair.com>
	<9C76FF5A-F60A-11D8-9743-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<A0125BDC-F61F-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<4B6A5903-F6C3-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <09E1C178-F6D5-11D8-A9E0-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hi,

I don't know if that can be helpfull but, if the RevDB feets all my  
PostgreSQL's related needs, i use the following method under the linux  
platform as a workaround to the difficulties you are experimented (and  
because i had to connect PostgreSQL from Metacard, years ago) :

To stick in the preopenstack main's stack handler :

>  if the platform is "Linux" then put "psql -h localhost projetsdac -U  
> postgres" into PgPath
>   else
>     if PGLinkOpen is a number then get revdb_disconnect("projetsdac")
>     put  
> revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","localhost","projetsdac","postgres","postg 
> res") into PGLinkOpen
>   end if

To send the requests to the PostgreSQL server trought the psql's  
command line client (localhost only, because security tasks + TCP/IP  
activated in the postgres "hba.conf" file) :

The main SQL's parser script to stick in the main stack script :

> function presave r
>   set itemdel to "?"
>   put item 1 of r into s
>   put item 2 of r into t
>
>   set itemdel to "&"
>   replace numtochar(10) with "##10;#" in s
>   replace "\'" with "##11;#" in s
>   replace numtochar(34) with "##34;#" in s
>   replace "##11;###11;#" with "" in s
>
>   if the platform is "macos" then put mactoiso(isotomac(s)) into s
>
>   if "NRC=insert" is in s then put item itemoffset("rneetabl=",s) of s  
> & return into datatosave
>
>   repeat for each item i in s
>     if char 1 to 4 of i is t then put i & return after datatosave
>   end repeat
>
>   repeat for each char c in datatosave
>     try
>       if c is "_"
>       then put " " after datatosavec
>       else if chartonum(c) > 223
>       then put "&#" & chartonum(c) & ";" after datatosavec
>       else if chartonum(c) > 191
>       then put "&#" & chartonum(c) & ";" after datatosavec
>       else if chartonum(c) = 39
>       then put "&#" & chartonum(c) & ";" after datatosavec
>       else put c after datatosavec
>     catch errornum
>       if c is not char 1 of datatosave
>       then if c is not char -1 of datatosave
>       then put "_" after datatosavec
>     end try
>   end repeat
>
>   set itemdelimiter to "/"
>   put item 2 of the short date & "/" & item 1 of the short date & "/"  
> & item 3 of the short date into aa
>   if length(item 1 of aa) = 1 then put "0" before item 1 of aa
>   if length(item 2 of aa) = 1 then put "0" before item 2 of aa
>   put "20" before item 3 of aa
>
>   if "rneetabl" is in datatosavec then
>     put " ( " into insertcolnames
>     put " values ( " into insertcoldatas
>     repeat for each line l in datatosavec
>       if l is line -1 of datatosavec then
>         put char 1 to 8 of l && " ) " after insertcolnames
>         put "'" & aa & "' ) " after insertcoldatas
>       else
>         put char 1 to 8 of l && " , " after insertcolnames
>         put "'" & char 10 to -1 of l & "' , " after insertcoldatas
>       end if
>     end repeat
>     put insertcolnames & insertcoldatas into updatecols
>   else
>     repeat for each line l in datatosavec
>       if l is line -1 of datatosavec then put char 1 to 8 of l && "=  
> '" & aa & "'" after updatecols
>       else put char 1 to 8 of l && "= '" & char 10 to -1 of l & "' , "  
> after updatecols
>     end repeat
>   end if
>
>   return updatecols
> end presave
>
>
>
> function parsesql s
>   global PgPath,PGLinkOpen
>   repeat for each char c in s
>     try
>       if chartonum(c) > 223
>       then put "&#" & chartonum(c) & ";" after t
>       else if chartonum(c) > 191
>       then put "&#" & chartonum(c) & ";" after t
>       else put c after t
>     catch errornum
>       if c is not char 1 of s
>       then if c is not char -1 of s
>       then put "_" after t
>     end try
>   end repeat
>   replace "\" with "" in t
>   replace "[" with "&" in t
>   replace "]" with "\" in t
>   if the platform is "MacOS" then
>     if "select" is not in t then get revdb_QueryBLOB(PGLinkOpen,t)
>     else
>       put revdb_QueryList("|",return,PGLinkOpen,t) into pgreply
>       repeat for each line l in pgreply
>         put char 1 to -1+offset("|",l) of l && char offset("|",l) to  
> -1 of l & return after d
>       end repeat
>       return d & "(" & the num of lines in pgreply && "rows)"
>     end if
>   else return shell("echo" && quote && t && quote && "|" && PgPath)
> end parsesql

and some standard SQL requests using the upon SQL's parser (examples) :

One :

> put parsesql("select * from cpacpcst where rneetabl ilike '%" & testne  
> & "%'") into sreply

...and an other :

>  if char 5 to -1 of item itemoffset("NRC=",PostIn) of PostIn is  
> "insert" then get parsesql("insert into cpacpcst" && presave(PostIn &  
> "?dems"))
>   else get parsesql("update cpacpcst set" && presave(PostIn & "?dems")  
> && "where recordid='" & char 5 to -1 of item itemoffset("NRC=",PostIn)  
> of PostIn & "'")

All works very fine in production mode with up to hundreds connections  
peer seconds (75% write-mode), since 09/2000, only under the linux  
platform, the RevDB doing a best job than the upon scripts under the  
Panther platform.

Best Regards,

Pierre

Le 25 ao?t 04, ? 20:19, Frank D. Engel, Jr. a ?crit :

> Okay, here is an example of what is happening.
>
> The attached revolution file contains a button and a text field (used  
> as a debugging log type of thing).
>
> Again, I use Studio version 2.2.1 under Mac OS X, and I built three  
> versions of the standalone: Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux.
>
> The Windows and Mac OS X versions work "as advertised", but the Linux  
> version seems to exit the handlers after dumping the first line of  
> text to the log field.  If I comment out the line with the  
> revOpenDatabase and uncomment the second line, then it does not try to  
> connect, so the rest of the script works fine.
>
> I could understand better if I was getting an error message back from  
> revOpenDatabase, but *all* running handlers seem to be exiting -- not  
> just the one containing the function call.
>
> If it would help, I could *try* to get a Solaris/SPARC or Irix opinion  
> on the issue, but it will take some time, as I will need to set up the  
> hardware (I have those systems disconnected right now), and I don't  
> think I even have Solaris installed on my SparcStation (it would be  
> version 8, on my painfully slow SS LX).
>
> On Aug 24, 2004, at 6:47 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
>
>> Yes, but even after I changed the text to all lower-case, it still  
>> doesn't work.
>>
>> I hadn't even thought of the case sensitivity -- good catch, but  
>> still not working  :-(
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:59 PM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Linux just seems
>>>> to be more case-sensitive than Mac or Win.
>>>
>>> That would be because it is.  ;-)
>>> --
>>> Troy
>>> RPSystems, Ltd.
>>> http://www.rpsystems.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Aug 25 16:32:28 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:32:28 +0200
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9p_=3A_Database_Problems_w/_Lin?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?ux_Standalones_=28correction=29=2E=2E=2E?=
Message-ID: <E1CD798C-F6D5-11D8-A9E0-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>



Hi,

I don't know if that can be helpfull but, if the RevDB feets all my  
PostgreSQL's related needs under the MacOS X platform, i use the  
following method under the linux platform as a workaround to the  
difficulties you are experimented (and because i had to connect  
PostgreSQL from Metacard, years ago) :

To stick in the preopenstack main's stack handler :

>  if the platform is "Linux" then put "psql -h localhost projetsdac -U  
> postgres" into PgPath
>   else
>     if PGLinkOpen is a number then get revdb_disconnect("projetsdac")
>     put  
> revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","localhost","projetsdac","postgres","postg 
> res") into PGLinkOpen
>   end if

To send the requests to the PostgreSQL server trought the psql's  
command line client (localhost only, because security tasks + TCP/IP  
activated in the postgres "hba.conf" file) :

The main SQL's parser script to stick in the main stack script :

> function presave r
>   set itemdel to "?"
>   put item 1 of r into s
>   put item 2 of r into t
>
>   set itemdel to "&"
>   replace numtochar(10) with "##10;#" in s
>   replace "\'" with "##11;#" in s
>   replace numtochar(34) with "##34;#" in s
>   replace "##11;###11;#" with "" in s
>
>   if the platform is "macos" then put mactoiso(isotomac(s)) into s
>
>   if "NRC=insert" is in s then put item itemoffset("rneetabl=",s) of s  
> & return into datatosave
>
>   repeat for each item i in s
>     if char 1 to 4 of i is t then put i & return after datatosave
>   end repeat
>
>   repeat for each char c in datatosave
>     try
>       if c is "_"
>       then put " " after datatosavec
>       else if chartonum(c) > 223
>       then put "&#" & chartonum(c) & ";" after datatosavec
>       else if chartonum(c) > 191
>       then put "&#" & chartonum(c) & ";" after datatosavec
>       else if chartonum(c) = 39
>       then put "&#" & chartonum(c) & ";" after datatosavec
>       else put c after datatosavec
>     catch errornum
>       if c is not char 1 of datatosave
>       then if c is not char -1 of datatosave
>       then put "_" after datatosavec
>     end try
>   end repeat
>
>   set itemdelimiter to "/"
>   put item 2 of the short date & "/" & item 1 of the short date & "/"  
> & item 3 of the short date into aa
>   if length(item 1 of aa) = 1 then put "0" before item 1 of aa
>   if length(item 2 of aa) = 1 then put "0" before item 2 of aa
>   put "20" before item 3 of aa
>
>   if "rneetabl" is in datatosavec then
>     put " ( " into insertcolnames
>     put " values ( " into insertcoldatas
>     repeat for each line l in datatosavec
>       if l is line -1 of datatosavec then
>         put char 1 to 8 of l && " ) " after insertcolnames
>         put "'" & aa & "' ) " after insertcoldatas
>       else
>         put char 1 to 8 of l && " , " after insertcolnames
>         put "'" & char 10 to -1 of l & "' , " after insertcoldatas
>       end if
>     end repeat
>     put insertcolnames & insertcoldatas into updatecols
>   else
>     repeat for each line l in datatosavec
>       if l is line -1 of datatosavec then put char 1 to 8 of l && "=  
> '" & aa & "'" after updatecols
>       else put char 1 to 8 of l && "= '" & char 10 to -1 of l & "' , "  
> after updatecols
>     end repeat
>   end if
>
>   return updatecols
> end presave
>
>
>
> function parsesql s
>   global PgPath,PGLinkOpen
>   repeat for each char c in s
>     try
>       if chartonum(c) > 223
>       then put "&#" & chartonum(c) & ";" after t
>       else if chartonum(c) > 191
>       then put "&#" & chartonum(c) & ";" after t
>       else put c after t
>     catch errornum
>       if c is not char 1 of s
>       then if c is not char -1 of s
>       then put "_" after t
>     end try
>   end repeat
>   replace "\" with "" in t
>   replace "[" with "&" in t
>   replace "]" with "\" in t
>   if the platform is "MacOS" then
>     if "select" is not in t then get revdb_QueryBLOB(PGLinkOpen,t)
>     else
>       put revdb_QueryList("|",return,PGLinkOpen,t) into pgreply
>       repeat for each line l in pgreply
>         put char 1 to -1+offset("|",l) of l && char offset("|",l) to  
> -1 of l & return after d
>       end repeat
>       return d & "(" & the num of lines in pgreply && "rows)"
>     end if
>   else return shell("echo" && quote && t && quote && "|" && PgPath)
> end parsesql

and some standard SQL requests using the upon SQL's parser (examples) :

One :

> put parsesql("select * from cpacpcst where rneetabl ilike '%" & testne  
> & "%'") into sreply

...and an other :

>  if char 5 to -1 of item itemoffset("NRC=",PostIn) of PostIn is  
> "insert" then get parsesql("insert into cpacpcst" && presave(PostIn &  
> "?dems"))
>   else get parsesql("update cpacpcst set" && presave(PostIn & "?dems")  
> && "where recordid='" & char 5 to -1 of item itemoffset("NRC=",PostIn)  
> of PostIn & "'")

All works very fine in production mode with up to hundreds connections  
peer seconds (75% write-mode), since 09/2000, only under the linux  
platform, the RevDB doing a best job than the upon scripts under the  
Panther platform.

Best Regards,

Pierre

Le 25 ao?t 04, ? 20:19, Frank D. Engel, Jr. a ?crit :

> Okay, here is an example of what is happening.
>
> The attached revolution file contains a button and a text field (used  
> as a debugging log type of thing).
>
> Again, I use Studio version 2.2.1 under Mac OS X, and I built three  
> versions of the standalone: Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux.
>
> The Windows and Mac OS X versions work "as advertised", but the Linux  
> version seems to exit the handlers after dumping the first line of  
> text to the log field.  If I comment out the line with the  
> revOpenDatabase and uncomment the second line, then it does not try to  
> connect, so the rest of the script works fine.
>
> I could understand better if I was getting an error message back from  
> revOpenDatabase, but *all* running handlers seem to be exiting -- not  
> just the one containing the function call.
>
> If it would help, I could *try* to get a Solaris/SPARC or Irix opinion  
> on the issue, but it will take some time, as I will need to set up the  
> hardware (I have those systems disconnected right now), and I don't  
> think I even have Solaris installed on my SparcStation (it would be  
> version 8, on my painfully slow SS LX).
>
> On Aug 24, 2004, at 6:47 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
>
>> Yes, but even after I changed the text to all lower-case, it still  
>> doesn't work.
>>
>> I hadn't even thought of the case sensitivity -- good catch, but  
>> still not working  :-(
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:59 PM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Linux just seems
>>>> to be more case-sensitive than Mac or Win.
>>>
>>> That would be because it is.  ;-)
>>> --
>>> Troy
>>> RPSystems, Ltd.
>>> http://www.rpsystems.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Aug 25 16:32:55 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:32:55 -0600
Subject: Faceless apps in OS X - FYI
In-Reply-To: <CBB30925-F6BF-11D8-99AD-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <C6091363-F6BB-11D8-90E0-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
 <CBB30925-F6BF-11D8-99AD-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <F1AE2856-F6D5-11D8-91AA-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>


On Aug 25, 2004, at 11:54 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Aug 25, 2004, at 11:25 AM, Devin Asay wrote:
>
>> I tried it and it didn't work, then I noticed in the mail list 
>> archive that this apparently was broken in Panther. I searched Apple 
>> Developer web site and discovered that the name of the key has been 
>> changed to LSUIElement.
>
> Do you think both can be set without invoking some strange behavior?
>
I just tried it (setting both the LSUIElement key and the NSBGOnly key) 
in my app, running on OS X 10.3.5. It appears to run just fine. My 
guess is that the OS ignores deprecated or discontinued keys.

Devin


Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From Meitnik at aol.com  Wed Aug 25 16:36:50 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:36:50 EDT
Subject: fixing revxml, thank you!
Message-ID: <42.56a273c3.2e5e5262@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/25/04 4:33:26 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> WRT XML working on Win95, that's on my to-do list and needs to be resolve
> before final.
> -- Tuv, thank you very much. :) 

andrew


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Aug 25 16:50:29 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:50:29 +0200
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX 
In-Reply-To: <62EE9A70-F6D4-11D8-9DB5-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <BD52410F.D029%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<62EE9A70-F6D4-11D8-9DB5-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <65E659EA-F6D8-11D8-A3C5-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Troy,

> On Aug 25, 2004, at 4:13 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>>
>>> Is it possible to set the loc of a stack before it is opened?
>> You should be able to set the loc in preOpenStack.
>
> I tried some of that. I guess the issue is not what I thought, but 
> more-so the clone operation itself.
> It seems very difficult to avoid some kind of flash when a stack is 
> cloned.

Why not use the more elegant way of storing a "template" stack in a 
custom property
and spit it out when- and whereever you like WITHOUT flashing? ;-)

See my "Analyze it..." stack in the "2lz2" palette:
The "Contentz" stack is in fact stored in a cp and pulled out when 
needed :-)

...
get the templatus_staccus of this stack
go stack ittus
## ehm it :-D
...

Drop a line if you need more insight ;-)

> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From tuviah at runrev.com  Wed Aug 25 16:51:38 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:51:38 -0400
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
References: <20040825202912.5CE3F930139@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <007f01c48ae5$51b1d7d0$1602a8c0@athlon>

Just checked bugzilla and cannot find a feature request or bug report for
speech under xp with sapi 5...

regards,
Tuviah


From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Aug 25 16:54:03 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:54:03 -0400
Subject: hiliteColor
Message-ID: <E580FDA6-F6D8-11D8-9DB5-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>

In the startup of my main stack, I have -

set the hiliteColor of this stack to 143,192,202

With the intention of using inheritance to manage a hilite color theme 
throughout - since Window's default dark blue is hideous - with the 
blue, bevel buttons in a depressed state can not even have their labels 
read. Of course, it is working just fine on Mac OSX. I just tested the 
stack on Windows XP, and all fields, buttons, etc. have a hilite color 
which looks completely black - even worse than the default blue. Why 
might that be? Why would those values create a black result on windows? 
Or is it simply not working, and the black is getting introduced 
because of it?
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Aug 25 16:55:34 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:55:34 -0400
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX 
In-Reply-To: <65E659EA-F6D8-11D8-A3C5-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <BD52410F.D029%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<62EE9A70-F6D4-11D8-9DB5-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<65E659EA-F6D8-11D8-A3C5-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1C36B834-F6D9-11D8-9DB5-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 25, 2004, at 4:50 PM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Why not use the more elegant way of storing a "template" stack in a 
> custom property
> and spit it out when- and whereever you like WITHOUT flashing? ;-)

Interesting indeed. I'll look at this.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Wed Aug 25 17:04:45 2004
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:04:45 -0500
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
In-Reply-To: <007f01c48ae5$51b1d7d0$1602a8c0@athlon>
References: <20040825202912.5CE3F930139@mail.runrev.com>
 <007f01c48ae5$51b1d7d0$1602a8c0@athlon>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040825160250.040d49c0@exchange.slg.com>

It was listed as a known issue in the previous release.  That would seem to 
indicate it was something Runrev was working on and wouldn't need to be 
entered into bugzilla...

At 03:51 PM 8/25/2004, you wrote:
>Just checked bugzilla and cannot find a feature request or bug report for
>speech under xp with sapi 5...
>
>regards,
>Tuviah

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 


From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Wed Aug 25 17:19:40 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:19:40 +0100
Subject: Text to Speech in windows
References: <20040825202912.5CE3F930139@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c48ae9$3bdeb280$5602a8c0@athalon>

Hi,

I have raised this a number of times, most recently with regard to my
subscription renewal. I actually bugzilla'd it at least once and it
vanished! I thought I had raised it again on Bugzilla.

One reason it may not have been voted or marked critical could be its a
windows issue. I posted on the potential problem of scoring windows issues
with (what seems as) a predominantly mac based list a short while ago.

I understand that SAPI 4 can be used, but to me the problem of getting SAPI
4 downloaded through an IT department is orders of magnitude greater than
that of QuickTime! I don't think it's really an end user solution.

Cheers
Steve

Tuviah wrote..

> SAPI 4 can co-exist with SAPI 5. As it stands I do have code to get text
to
> speech working with SAPI 5, see if I can squeeze it in between now and
> release. I'm just wondering what bugzilla number is this, and why hasn't
it
> been voted on or marked critical?!
>
> WRT XML working on Win95, that's on my to-do list and needs to be resolve
> before final.
>
> Best,
> Tuviah


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Aug 25 18:33:41 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:33:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Text to Speech in windows
In-Reply-To: <000d01c48ae9$3bdeb280$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408251517180.1299-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Well, I, as a Mac user, for one, do not agree.  I was happy when TTS was
made available for Windows, as well as when Jonathan made a Windows
version of Shakobox.

I don't want features to be broken under windows... and this isn't because
it affects my bottom line (thin as it is), either.

OTOH, consider the perspective of the perhaps typical Mac Rev user:  we've
become accustomed to such things as TTS and scripted musical notation, and
(for others) tying AppleScript to our stacks.  To not have these things
would be a step backwards for us.

Perhaps now that Tuviah is aware of the issue, it will be fixed.  That's
my hope, anyway...

Judy

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Stephen King wrote:

> One reason it may not have been voted or marked critical could be its a
> windows issue. I posted on the potential problem of scoring windows issues
> with (what seems as) a predominantly mac based list a short while ago.


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Aug 25 18:34:48 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
In-Reply-To: <007f01c48ae5$51b1d7d0$1602a8c0@athlon>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408251533550.1299-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Perhaps, but I KNOW it's been discussed on list before... and I think
there's even some sort of tech note/read me kinda thing that acknowledges
the problem/issue... and that it was being fixed?

Judy

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, tuviah snyder wrote:

> Just checked bugzilla and cannot find a feature request or bug report for
> speech under xp with sapi 5...


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Aug 25 18:35:13 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:35:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
In-Reply-To: <007f01c48ae5$51b1d7d0$1602a8c0@athlon>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408251534530.1299-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Remember that I brought it up at the first rev chat session, too.

Judy

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, tuviah snyder wrote:

> Just checked bugzilla and cannot find a feature request or bug report for
> speech under xp with sapi 5...


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Aug 25 18:56:56 2004
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:56:56 -0500
Subject: FTP Download Problem
Message-ID: <10A2D0BE-F6EA-11D8-9311-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>

Gang,

I'm trying to download a stack from my server at IPowerWeb using xTalk 
in an application, It does not throw an error, but, instead, downloads 
a file with 0 bytes. My xTalk looks something like this:

     put URL theRemoteURL into URL theLocalURL

I can upload with no problems using the same URLs (in reversed 
positions, of course). If I change my download to an HTTP one, it works 
flawlessly. These are small to medium sized files, so I don't think 
that in this case "size matters." <GRIN>

I've also tried the libURL call "libURLDownloadToFile" and get 
identical results to my script above.

I've thought maybe it's the way my server is configured. I've added the 
mime type for .rev files. I can download files from my server using its 
own web-based services, so I know it's possible.

Thanks, in advance, for any advice.

Jerry


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 25 19:01:57 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:01:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Align Objects.exe?
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEFBGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <20040825230157.54583.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com>


has someone already writen an
alt Align Objects.exe?

so the user can move objects around as in the
development IDE. creating temporary clusters
and moving them with the mouse or arrow keys.

HC Power Tools was something along those lines.

Thank You,

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Aug 25 19:03:17 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:03:17 -0500
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX 
In-Reply-To: <62EE9A70-F6D4-11D8-9DB5-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD5284E5.47CC%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/25/04 3:21 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> I tried some of that. I guess the issue is not what I thought, but
> more-so the clone operation itself. It seems very difficult to avoid
> some kind of flash when a stack is cloned.

Theoretically you can save the "original" stack in an invisible state and
then when you clone it you only see the new (not the original stack).


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Aug 25 19:06:17 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:06:17 -0500
Subject: hiliteColor
In-Reply-To: <E580FDA6-F6D8-11D8-9DB5-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BD528599.47CD%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/25/04 3:54 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> In the startup of my main stack, I have -
> 
> set the hiliteColor of this stack to 143,192,202
> 
> With the intention of using inheritance to manage a hilite color theme
> throughout - since Window's default dark blue is hideous - with the
> blue, bevel buttons in a depressed state can not even have their labels
> read. Of course, it is working just fine on Mac OSX. I just tested the
> stack on Windows XP, and all fields, buttons, etc. have a hilite color
> which looks completely black - even worse than the default blue. Why
> might that be? Why would those values create a black result on windows?
> Or is it simply not working, and the black is getting introduced
> because of it?

I just tried it under Rev 2.2 on XP (created a simple stack with a button
and executed your "set the hiliteColor" from the message box), and it works
just fine here.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Wed Aug 25 20:56:49 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:56:49 -0600
Subject: HTMLText Errors
Message-ID: <00db01c48b07$92953360$10d4e6cf@BUMP>

I've been playing with the HTMLText property and use the function below to convert the HTML to CSS.  I'm just running into 1 problem though.  When the text size is "10", the HTMLText property will not attach the size="10" attributes to the <font> tag.  Any idea why?  Any ideas on a way around this?

function HTMLtoCSS theResult
   replace (quote& " ") with "; " in theResult
   replace ("<p><font face=" &quote) with ("<span style=" &quote& "font-family: ") in theResult
   replace (" size=" &quote) with (" font-size: ") in theResult
   replace (" color=" &quote& "#") with (" color: ") in theResult
   replace ("</font></p>") with ("</span></br>") in theResult
   replace "<p></p>" with "<br>" in theResult
   return ("<p>" & theResult & "</p>")
end HTMLtoCSS
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
 

From tuviah at runrev.com  Wed Aug 25 20:01:45 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:01:45 -0400
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
Message-ID: <00ac01c48aff$e1ab4cd0$1602a8c0@athlon>

Note revspeech.dll has been updated to support SAPI 5 for 2.5. You will
however have to choose between two versions of the external one that is
compatible with SAPI 4 and the other one which is compatible between with
SAPI 5. The one for SAPI 5 will be included in the distro by default. If
your using Win95, note that you will have to use SAPI 4 as SAPI doesn't work
with this OS...

Best,
Tuviah


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Aug 25 20:11:08 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:11:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
In-Reply-To: <00ac01c48aff$e1ab4cd0$1602a8c0@athlon>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408251710560.1299-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Thank you, Tuviah :-D

Judy

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, tuviah snyder wrote:

> Note revspeech.dll has been updated to support SAPI 5 for 2.5. You will
> however have to choose between two versions of the external one that is
> compatible with SAPI 4 and the other one which is compatible between with
> SAPI 5. The one for SAPI 5 will be included in the distro by default. If
> your using Win95, note that you will have to use SAPI 4 as SAPI doesn't work
> with this OS...
>
> Best,
> Tuviah
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com  Wed Aug 25 21:44:09 2004
From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:44:09 -0600
Subject: HTMLText Errors
References: <00db01c48b07$92953360$10d4e6cf@BUMP>
Message-ID: <00fb01c48b0e$2f6c3480$10d4e6cf@BUMP>

> I've been playing with the HTMLText property and use the function below to convert the HTML to CSS.  I'm just running into 1 problem though.  When the text size is "10", the HTMLText property will not attach the size="10" attributes to the <font> tag.  Any idea why?  Any ideas on a way around this?

I figured it out.  It bases the "default" font size off the field's font size. So by setting it to a number that is not used, it always adds the size tag.  Thanks anyways.
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
____________________________________________
Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com

From ptrendler at bigpond.com  Wed Aug 25 20:32:02 2004
From: ptrendler at bigpond.com (Pat Trendler)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:32:02 +1000
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408251710560.1299-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <008701c48b04$591e3b20$b000a8c0@mshome.net>

Ah ...    I was just in the middle of composing a very long whingeing email
...

Now all I get to say is Thanks!!


Pat


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Judy Perry" <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: "tuviah snyder" <tuviah at runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: re:Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?


> Thank you, Tuviah :-D
>
> Judy
>
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, tuviah snyder wrote:
>
> > Note revspeech.dll has been updated to support SAPI 5 for 2.5. You will
> > however have to choose between two versions of the external one that is
> > compatible with SAPI 4 and the other one which is compatible between
with
> > SAPI 5. The one for SAPI 5 will be included in the distro by default. If
> > your using Win95, note that you will have to use SAPI 4 as SAPI doesn't
work
> > with this OS...
> >
> > Best,
> > Tuviah
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Wed Aug 25 21:22:05 2004
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:22:05 -0700
Subject: writing an OS X package from a custom property
Message-ID: <57126AF0-F6FE-11D8-9BF1-000A95AFF636@elementarysoftware.com>

What I would like to do is store an OS X package (osax scripting 
addition) as a custom property in my application so that I can install 
it later onto the user's machine if they require it.  In order to load 
the package I've tried the usual:

on mouseUp
   answer file "Select a file:"
   if it is empty then exit to top
   put it into tFile
   put URL("binfile:"&tFile) into tData
   put compress(tData) into tData
   set the uOSAX of stack "tester" to tData
end mouseUp

the result of trying to read the package is: < error reading file >

I've tried some less orthodox  methods of getting the package into the 
custom property as well but whatever I store invariably gets written 
out again as a file rather than a package.

Rev 2.1.2  /  OS X 10.3.5  /  G5
-Scott Morrow
Elementary Software


From themacguy at macosx.com  Wed Aug 25 21:31:12 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:31:12 -0600
Subject: Text to speech Bugzilla'd (#2069)
In-Reply-To: <20040825202912.5CE3F930139@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD529980.252C%themacguy@macosx.com>

Tuviah,

I did not realize that work had -not- been progressing on text-to-speech for
Windws XP (SAPI5). I have started a Bugzilla thread (#2069). The lack of
text-to-speech on WindowsXP is all that prevents me from releasing an
important app (important to my client and me).

I complained about this about a year ago and was told that I could use SAPI4
as a temporary measure until the Rev component for XP text to speech was
done. SAPI4 can't be found at Microsoft as they've removed all reference to
it. I assumed that it would just be a matter of months so I didn't Bugzilla
it nor complain.

I appreciate your efforts to make this part of the next release!

Thanks,
Barry


On 8/25/04 2:29 PM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> allegedly flung into the void:

> SAPI 4 can co-exist with SAPI 5. As it stands I do have code to get text to
> speech working with SAPI 5, see if I can squeeze it in between now and
> release. I'm just wondering what bugzilla number is this, and why hasn't it
> been voted on or marked critical?!



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Aug 25 21:30:16 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:30:16 -0400
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
Message-ID: <OF710E6582.6F990F6E-ON85256EFC.0007C740@sealedair.com>

Thank you very much Tuviah! Not to seem ungrateful, but can you do 
anything to achieve TTS in the various supported unix flavors?

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>

> Note revspeech.dll has been updated to support SAPI 5 for 2.5. You will
> however have to choose between two versions of the external one that is
> compatible with SAPI 4 and the other one which is compatible between 
with
> SAPI 5. The one for SAPI 5 will be included in the distro by default. If
> your using Win95, note that you will have to use SAPI 4 as SAPI doesn't 
work
> with this OS...
> 
> Best,
> Tuviah


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Aug 25 21:37:33 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:37:33 -0500
Subject: writing an OS X package from a custom property
In-Reply-To: <57126AF0-F6FE-11D8-9BF1-000A95AFF636@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <BD52A90D.47E7%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/25/04 8:22 PM, "Scott Morrow" <scott at elementarysoftware.com> wrote:

> What I would like to do is store an OS X package (osax scripting
> addition) as a custom property in my application so that I can install
> it later onto the user's machine if they require it.  In order to load
> the package I've tried the usual:
> 
> on mouseUp
>    answer file "Select a file:"
>    if it is empty then exit to top
>    put it into tFile
>    put URL("binfile:"&tFile) into tData
>    put compress(tData) into tData
>    set the uOSAX of stack "tester" to tData
> end mouseUp
> 
> the result of trying to read the package is: < error reading file >

Did you try storing the OSAX as a custom property but not compressed? I seem
to remember some issues with compression and custom properties...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Aug 25 21:47:11 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:47:11 -0400
Subject: Align Objects.exe?
Message-ID: <OFBDDCC4D3.99960F3C-ON85256EFC.0009BFC4@sealedair.com>

Erik,

The align option in the object properties menu works fine for my needs 
MOST of the time... although I wish it had undo capability. I can 
multi-select objects and move them around using the arrow keys (as long as 
the cursor is not clicked inside a field). By clusters, do you mean 
groups?

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com

Erik Hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> has someone already writen an
> alt Align Objects.exe?
> ...so the user can move objects around as in
> the development IDE. creating temporary clusters
> and moving them with the mouse or arrow keys.


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Aug 25 22:21:28 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:21:28 -0600
Subject: writing an OS X package from a custom property
In-Reply-To: <57126AF0-F6FE-11D8-9BF1-000A95AFF636@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <57126AF0-F6FE-11D8-9BF1-000A95AFF636@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <A31ABBDC-F706-11D8-8428-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Aug 25, 2004, at 7:22 PM, Scott Morrow wrote:

> What I would like to do is store an OS X package (osax scripting 
> addition) as a custom property in my application so that I can install 
> it later onto the user's machine if they require it.

A package is not a single file.  Think .app and .bundle.

Dar
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Aug 25 22:46:02 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:46:02 +1000
Subject: Stack is momentarily solid white (flicker) - OSX 
In-Reply-To: <62EE9A70-F6D4-11D8-9DB5-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <BD52410F.D029%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<62EE9A70-F6D4-11D8-9DB5-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <118F9598-F70A-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

>>> Is it possible to set the loc of a stack before it is opened?
>>
>> You should be able to set the loc in preOpenStack.
>
> I tried some of that. I guess the issue is not what I thought, but 
> more-so the clone operation itself. It seems very difficult to avoid 
> some kind of flash when a stack is cloned.

Here's what I do:

BEFORE cloning the stack, set a custom property of the template stack. 
In this example, I set the cStoredRect of the template to the the rect 
I want. Then I have this handler in the stack or card script of the 
template stack:

on preOpenStack
   go invisible to this stack
   if the cStoredRect of this stack is not empty
   then set the rect of this stack to the cStoredRect of this stack
end preOpenStack

After setting the display, I then show the newly cloned stack. This 
works really well and I get no flickers.

Cheers,
Sarah


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Aug 25 23:01:10 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:01:10 +1000
Subject: FTP Download Problem
In-Reply-To: <10A2D0BE-F6EA-11D8-9311-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
References: <10A2D0BE-F6EA-11D8-9311-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <2F176534-F70C-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> I'm trying to download a stack from my server at IPowerWeb using xTalk 
> in an application, It does not throw an error, but, instead, downloads 
> a file with 0 bytes. My xTalk looks something like this:
>
>     put URL theRemoteURL into URL theLocalURL
>
> I can upload with no problems using the same URLs (in reversed 
> positions, of course). If I change my download to an HTTP one, it 
> works flawlessly. These are small to medium sized files, so I don't 
> think that in this case "size matters." <GRIN>
>
> I've also tried the libURL call "libURLDownloadToFile" and get 
> identical results to my script above.
>
> I've thought maybe it's the way my server is configured. I've added 
> the mime type for .rev files. I can download files from my server 
> using its own web-based services, so I know it's possible.
>

Here's the download handler I use (slightly edited, so not tested in 
exactly this form):

on startDownload pFileName
   put "ftp://" into tURL
   put fld "FTPuser" & ":" after tURL
   put fld "FTPpass" & "@" after tURL
   put fld "FTPserver" & "/" after tURL
   put fld "FTPfolder" & "/" after tURL
   put pFileName after tURL

   put fld "SaveFolder" & pFileName into tSaveName
   set the fileType  to ""
	
   libURLDownloadToFile tURL, tSaveName, downloadDone
end startDownload

downloadDone is the name of the handler that gets called when the 
download is finished.

For testing purposes, I would recommend that you create a log field and 
use the libURLSetLogField command to have the transcript of the FTP 
session shown to you. This will tell you where any problem is 
occurring.

Cheers,
Sarah


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug 25 23:08:18 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:08:18 -0700
Subject: Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
In-Reply-To: <C8CB6F9C-F6C0-11D8-9B9D-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <OF68069033.189AD38E-ON85256EFB.005F140C@sealedair.com>
	<C8CB6F9C-F6C0-11D8-9B9D-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <412D5422.4040303@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> I suppose that every one of us could come up with a list of things that 
> we wish Rev would do. High on my list, e.g., is the ability to have 
> truly styled text and styled text editing in fields. One of my dream 
> apps demands this. But creating such a tool that would work across just 
> the three primary platforms -- Mac OS X, Windows XP, and the core 
> distribution of Linux -- would be a HUGE undertaking.

What aspects of working with styled text would you like to see implemented?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev

From themacguy at macosx.com  Wed Aug 25 23:31:06 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:31:06 -0600
Subject: revspeech.dll - three questions
In-Reply-To: <20040826021848.55B60930172@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD52B59A.2538%themacguy@macosx.com>

Tuviah,

When the 2.5 release is ready for public consumption (I don't have it),
where would the revspeech.dll file be placed in order to provide the
text-to-speech function?

Will there be any difference in how I am to code the handler between OSX and
XP versions of the distribution?

Where may I DL the 2.5 beta?

Thanks,
Barry

On 8/25/04 8:18 PM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> allegedly flung into the void:

> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:01:45 -0400
> From: "tuviah snyder" <tuviah at runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: re:Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
> 
> Note revspeech.dll has been updated to support SAPI 5 for 2.5. You will
> however have to choose between two versions of the external one that is
> compatible with SAPI 4 and the other one which is compatible between with
> SAPI 5. The one for SAPI 5 will be included in the distro by default. If
> your using Win95, note that you will have to use SAPI 4 as SAPI doesn't work
> with this OS...
> 
> Best,
> Tuviah



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 25 23:35:04 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:35:04 -0400
Subject: revspeech.dll - three questions
In-Reply-To: <BD52B59A.2538%themacguy@macosx.com>
References: <BD52B59A.2538%themacguy@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <EB17186F-F710-11D8-A069-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

 From a posting by Kevin Miller re: 2.5b2:

The URLs are as follows.  In this release we have included both Linux  
and
Classic builds, along with Mac OS X and Windows:

Linux:

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B2/linux.tgz
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B2/revolution-2.5- 
b2.i386.r
pm

Mac OS X:

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B2/revolutionosx.dmg

Mac OS Classic:

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B2/revolution.sit

Windows (no installer):

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B2/revolution.zip

Windows (with installer):

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5B2/revsetup.exe

Please note this version requires a new key.  If your license has not
expired you can request a new key be issued automatically from:

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/updatekeyrequest.shtml




On Aug 25, 2004, at 11:31 PM, Barry Levine wrote:

> Tuviah,
>
> When the 2.5 release is ready for public consumption (I don't have it),
> where would the revspeech.dll file be placed in order to provide the
> text-to-speech function?
>
> Will there be any difference in how I am to code the handler between  
> OSX and
> XP versions of the distribution?
>
> Where may I DL the 2.5 beta?
>
> Thanks,
> Barry
>
> On 8/25/04 8:18 PM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
> <use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> allegedly flung into the  
> void:
>
>> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:01:45 -0400
>> From: "tuviah snyder" <tuviah at runrev.com>
>> Subject: Re: re:Do we have synthetic speech in WindowsXP yet?
>>
>> Note revspeech.dll has been updated to support SAPI 5 for 2.5. You  
>> will
>> however have to choose between two versions of the external one that  
>> is
>> compatible with SAPI 4 and the other one which is compatible between  
>> with
>> SAPI 5. The one for SAPI 5 will be included in the distro by default.  
>> If
>> your using Win95, note that you will have to use SAPI 4 as SAPI  
>> doesn't work
>> with this OS...
>>
>> Best,
>> Tuviah
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Aug 25 23:42:02 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 00:42:02 -0300
Subject: FTP Download Problem
In-Reply-To: <10A2D0BE-F6EA-11D8-9311-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
References: <10A2D0BE-F6EA-11D8-9311-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <E48AC556-F711-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>


Jerry,

Can you use a libURLSetLogField command and send me the output, we 
could look for invalid commands or behaviour... I am now deep into ftp 
and http specs here! I even printed them!

PS: are you going to malta?

Andre




On Aug 25, 2004, at 7:56 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Gang,
>
> I'm trying to download a stack from my server at IPowerWeb using xTalk 
> in an application, It does not throw an error, but, instead, downloads 
> a file with 0 bytes. My xTalk looks something like this:
>
>     put URL theRemoteURL into URL theLocalURL
>
> I can upload with no problems using the same URLs (in reversed 
> positions, of course). If I change my download to an HTTP one, it 
> works flawlessly. These are small to medium sized files, so I don't 
> think that in this case "size matters." <GRIN>
>
> I've also tried the libURL call "libURLDownloadToFile" and get 
> identical results to my script above.
>
> I've thought maybe it's the way my server is configured. I've added 
> the mime type for .rev files. I can download files from my server 
> using its own web-based services, so I know it's possible.
>
> Thanks, in advance, for any advice.
>
> Jerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Aug 25 23:44:16 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:44:16 -0700
Subject: Missing tutorial
In-Reply-To: <D9EF43CC-F61B-11D8-936D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <412BB19C.6020509@fourthworld.com>
	<D9EF43CC-F61B-11D8-936D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <412D5C90.6090001@fourthworld.com>

Devin Asay wrote:

> Richard,
> 
> It's really a site meant to support a course that we teach. I suspect 
> one of them has taken the site down to update it for classes that start 
> next week.
> 
> wait 1800
> 
> In fact, I just checked our web server. That is apparently what 
> happened. You can access the old site at 
> http://chum.byu.edu/classes/chum281ob/ .
> 
> Maybe what we should do, if there is interest, is reformat the Rev 
> content part of the site (minus the class-specific stuff) as a public 
> reference site.

That would be great. The lecture notes there are very helpful.

Thanks for posting the current URL.  I've updated my listings of Rev 
tutorials at:
<http://www.fourthworld.com/rev/index.html>

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Aug 25 23:53:48 2004
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:53:48 -0500
Subject: FTP Download Problem
In-Reply-To: <2F176534-F70C-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <10A2D0BE-F6EA-11D8-9311-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
	<2F176534-F70C-11D8-BA87-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <88E7A9F9-F713-11D8-9311-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>

Thanks, Sarah and Andre...

I'll try the log approach. See if Andre can spot the anomaly.

No, not going to Malta. Not a Revolution conference junkie, yet!

-JD

On Aug 25, 2004, at 10:01 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> I'm trying to download a stack from my server at IPowerWeb using 
>> xTalk in an application, It does not throw an error, but, instead, 
>> downloads a file with 0 bytes. My xTalk looks something like this:
>>
>>     put URL theRemoteURL into URL theLocalURL
>>
>> I can upload with no problems using the same URLs (in reversed 
>> positions, of course). If I change my download to an HTTP one, it 
>> works flawlessly. These are small to medium sized files, so I don't 
>> think that in this case "size matters." <GRIN>
>>
>> I've also tried the libURL call "libURLDownloadToFile" and get 
>> identical results to my script above.
>>
>> I've thought maybe it's the way my server is configured. I've added 
>> the mime type for .rev files. I can download files from my server 
>> using its own web-based services, so I know it's possible.
>>
>
> Here's the download handler I use (slightly edited, so not tested in 
> exactly this form):
>
> on startDownload pFileName
>   put "ftp://" into tURL
>   put fld "FTPuser" & ":" after tURL
>   put fld "FTPpass" & "@" after tURL
>   put fld "FTPserver" & "/" after tURL
>   put fld "FTPfolder" & "/" after tURL
>   put pFileName after tURL
>
>   put fld "SaveFolder" & pFileName into tSaveName
>   set the fileType  to ""
> 	
>   libURLDownloadToFile tURL, tSaveName, downloadDone
> end startDownload
>
> downloadDone is the name of the handler that gets called when the 
> download is finished.
>
> For testing purposes, I would recommend that you create a log field 
> and use the libURLSetLogField command to have the transcript of the 
> FTP session shown to you. This will tell you where any problem is 
> occurring.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Aug 26 00:07:13 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 01:07:13 -0300
Subject: anyone here would use simple httpd or ftpd code?
Message-ID: <6904E9A7-F715-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>

hi folks,


I am building this huge lib for handling netservices like http and ftp. 
Although I am not near my milestone 1, it's pretty usable so I was 
wondering if anyone here is really waiting for this and would like a 
libNetServices Lite version. What it can currently do is:

* Serve Pages, both dynamic stacks and static pages.
* Serve files by ftp both passive and active ftp.
* XML-RPC Server Side.

missing parts are: FTP Resume and Upload, Cookie Handling (actually you 
can read them, not set them right now).

hugz
andre

-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Thu Aug 26 00:51:28 2004
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:51:28 -0700
Subject: writing an OS X package from a custom property
Message-ID: <9780F882-F71B-11D8-9BFE-000A95AFF636@elementarysoftware.com>

Ken Ray wrote:
> Did you try storing the OSAX as a custom property but not compressed? 
> I seem
> to remember some issues with compression and custom properties...

I did... to no avail.  Dar Scott pointed out that since what I'm 
working with isn't a file perhaps I shouldn't expect it to act as one.  
  If you two aren't rolling your eyes with the simplicity of the task 
then I feel better letting go of it and moving on... though I'm still 
open for suggestions.
-Scott Morrow
Elementary Software


From spiffsetz at mac.com  Thu Aug 26 01:08:28 2004
From: spiffsetz at mac.com (Steve and Lee Ann Setzer)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:08:28 -0600
Subject: Mac to Windows -- maybe text encoding
Message-ID: <BD52CC6C.5EA8%spiffsetz@mac.com>

I have a problem that I think is related to text encoding, and I'm looking
for suggestions.

Here is the issue:

(A) I wrote a HyperCard stack years ago to teach the International Phonetic
Alphabet to students using games.
(B) I used the excellent PalPhon font to display the IPA characters.
(C) This year I decided to port the stack to Mac OS X, and hopefully
Windows, using RunRev.
(D) I switched to a newer font, IPAPhon, built by the original author of
PalPhon. It comes in both Mac and Windows TrueType versions; since OS X can
use either format, I used the windows TTFs for maximum compatibility).
(E) I do all my work on a Mac running OS X, but I have access to RunRev for
Windows and a decent Windows 2000 PC.
(F) The games involve buttons that have IPA characters in their names
 (Inspector-->Text Formatting-->Font-->IPAPhon Roman)
(G) When I move the stack to Windows, many of the button names show the
wrong character, either a rectangle or just a different letter/glyph.

I've been rummaging around through this list's archives and also the RunRev
documentation, and I'm pretty sure this is related to the charSet property
or similar text encoding issue.

Is there a way to have the standalone use the MacOS encoding even when it's
on Windows? Or is there some kind of automated way to tell which characters
are going to "move" and automate the translation?

It's a fairly complex (and fragile) program, and my early experiments with
manually searching for the "wrong" characters and replacing them with the
"right" ones (using Windows Character Map to find the new locations) have
been error-prone, so I'm looking for something more reliable.

Thanks all,

Steve Setzer


From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Aug 26 01:13:37 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:13:37 -0600
Subject: Two feature requests
Message-ID: <BD52CDA1.2539%themacguy@macosx.com>

I'm not sure if these should be Bugzilla entries as they're really feature
requests (that have been discussed on this list for two years).

RealBasic has a multicolumn "editField" that, with very little add'l code (I
know because I did it), permits a user to "return" down a column of cells
and "tab" across a row (with wrapping to the next column/row, respectively).
This is the feature I want to see in Rev. The existing multicolumn field is
worthless for any sort of data entry by a user without copious amounts of
code designed simply to keep the user from destroying the data presented in
the field.

The other request concerns printing columnar reports without doing
backflips. The "Report Builder" does nothing for this. What Rev needs is a
"PRINT @ X,Y" command (as in PRINT @ 20,80 "Hello" for which X and Y would
be pixels). Again, look to RB's implementation of this for an example.
Perhaps an extension to the revPrintText command that would permit it to
include an optional "@x,y"?

It is possible that a modification to the revPrintField command could work
(assuming that the multi-column field was implemented properly) if the
field's screen appearance (borders, lines between rows and columns, etc.)
was maintained on paper. Obviously, one would have to keep the overall width
of the field to a size that would print on one page (or a scaling parameter
switch could be used to force it to one page like Preview does for OSX).

You'll note that these requests would provide real, immediate benefits for
any developer interested in providing applications to be used by any
business.

Commentary by the Listas is solicited and appreciated.

Thanks,
Barry



From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 26 01:33:25 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 01:33:25 -0400
Subject: Two feature requests
In-Reply-To: <BD52CDA1.2539%themacguy@macosx.com>
References: <BD52CDA1.2539%themacguy@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <7384DCC4-F721-11D8-9D6F-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 26, 2004, at 1:13 AM, Barry Levine wrote:

> RealBasic has a multicolumn "editField" that, with very little add'l 
> code (I
> know because I did it), permits a user to "return" down a column of 
> cells
> and "tab" across a row (with wrapping to the next column/row, 
> respectively).
> This is the feature I want to see in Rev. The existing multicolumn 
> field is
> worthless for any sort of data entry by a user without copious amounts 
> of
> code designed simply to keep the user from destroying the data 
> presented in
> the field.

This is well-known as bugzilla entry #670, and has an impressive number 
of votes to its credit. I believe it may well be the single most 
requested feature to date.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Aug 26 02:22:23 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 03:22:23 -0300
Subject: writing an OS X package from a custom property
In-Reply-To: <9780F882-F71B-11D8-9BFE-000A95AFF636@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <9780F882-F71B-11D8-9BFE-000A95AFF636@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <4B18F310-F728-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 26, 2004, at 1:51 AM, Scott Morrow wrote:

> I did... to no avail.  Dar Scott pointed out that since what I'm 
> working with isn't a file perhaps I shouldn't expect it to act as one. 
>   If you two aren't rolling your eyes with the simplicity of the task 
> then I feel better letting go of it and moving on... though I'm still 
> open for suggestions.

Scott,

Since you're working with a bundle, I think you can compress it and 
then store in a custom prop. Be aware that using zip compression might 
destroy the data fork of macintosh files so you should use stuffit. If 
you're only deploying on OSX then you could make a DMG with the OSAX, 
and store the dmg, you can mount the disk image package using a simple 
applescript.

cheers
andre

PS: if you're trully masoquist, you can create the DMG, use uucode and 
store it on a field... but man that's evil!!!!!



> -Scott Morrow
> Elementary Software
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Aug 26 02:27:55 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 07:27:55 +0100
Subject: FTP Download Problem
In-Reply-To: <10A2D0BE-F6EA-11D8-9311-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
References: <10A2D0BE-F6EA-11D8-9311-000A95B300EC@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <10DE1E89-F729-11D8-ABC9-000A9569F8B0@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 25 Aug 2004, at 23:56, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Gang,
>
> I'm trying to download a stack from my server at IPowerWeb using xTalk 
> in an application, It does not throw an error, but, instead, downloads 
> a file with 0 bytes. My xTalk looks something like this:
>
>     put URL theRemoteURL into URL theLocalURL

One possible problem with this would be using "the result" to track an 
error in the ftp download. After this statement, "the result" will show 
the result of the local URL transaction.

This might be better:

    get URL theRemoteURL
    if the result is empty then
         put it into URL theLocalURL
    else
       answer the result
    end if

As others have said, using libUrlSetLogField will show server 
responses, and may help to indicate a problem.

There is no reason to use libUrlDownloadToFile for small to medium 
sized files (no harm either). It is intended for large files that won't 
fit into memory all in one go.

Cheers
Dave


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Aug 26 03:04:59 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:04:59 +0200
Subject: Two feature requests
In-Reply-To: <7384DCC4-F721-11D8-9D6F-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEFPGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

> On Aug 26, 2004, at 1:13 AM, Barry Levine wrote:
> know because I did it), permits a user to "return" down a column of 
> cells
> and "tab" across a row (with wrapping to the next column/row, 
> respectively).

I agree and disagree. 

For one, RR provides the objects and you must control them - at least 
you can do so at will and wim - compared to filemaker. On the other
hand, apps such as filemaker, excel, and RB mentioned here provide 
pre-made behaviors and you can control them only as much as there are 
options. In RR you have infinite options available. We could always 
whine to have one or another feature like this and until RR is updated, 
your programs are blocked!

In RR, i've made a field for any situation.
you can control return in field all you want and 
change the selectedchunk anyway you want. 

on returninfield
  savecell
  -- untested
  get the selectedchunk 
  get add 1 to word wordoffset("line",it) of it
  select it
  -- dont pass returninfield
end returninfield

on tabkey
  samething...
end tabkey

on savecell
  if validatecell
  then DoSavecell
  else AbortCellChange
end savecell

It's not hard scripting. Here, you have the option to add further
control to this field like holding the shiftkey to save the cell 
or checking the cell data type, etc...

What's wrong with the table object anyway? 
Im guilty of avoiding it! ;)

What is, however, in my disagreement is that fields options like 
fields' alignment per line or per column, independent margin control 
for name or label display, vertical alignment, cell backcolor ;), 
even the current linecolor display 
    (or the backcolor of line x )
    (let's not cover the backcolor of item x of line y yet)
doesn't cover completely the line between columns or even lines
(or gridlines).

So we have issues with both and surely while you have a solution,
i can't use the linecolor at all! Has anyone found a solution to
that (not a tab to text fill'in I hope ;)? 

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Troy
> Rollins
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 07:33
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Two feature requests
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 26, 2004, at 1:13 AM, Barry Levine wrote:
> 
> > RealBasic has a multicolumn "editField" that, with very little add'l 
> > code (I
> > know because I did it), permits a user to "return" down a column of 
> > cells
> > and "tab" across a row (with wrapping to the next column/row, 
> > respectively).
> > This is the feature I want to see in Rev. The existing multicolumn 
> > field is
> > worthless for any sort of data entry by a user without copious amounts 
> > of
> > code designed simply to keep the user from destroying the data 
> > presented in
> > the field.
> 
> This is well-known as bugzilla entry #670, and has an impressive number 
> of votes to its credit. I believe it may well be the single most 
> requested feature to date.
> 
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Aug 26 02:51:34 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:51:34 -0700
Subject: Mac to Windows -- maybe text encoding
In-Reply-To: <BD52CC6C.5EA8%spiffsetz@mac.com>
References: <BD52CC6C.5EA8%spiffsetz@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p061005e2bd5336367a79@[66.93.39.98]>

At 11:08 PM -0600 8/25/2004, Steve and Lee Ann Setzer wrote:
>(E) I do all my work on a Mac running OS X, but I have access to RunRev for
>Windows and a decent Windows 2000 PC.
>(F) The games involve buttons that have IPA characters in their names
>  (Inspector-->Text Formatting-->Font-->IPAPhon Roman)
>(G) When I move the stack to Windows, many of the button names show the
>wrong character, either a rectangle or just a different letter/glyph.

Try the macToISO function:

   set the name of button 1 to macToISO(the name of button 1)

This function (and the companion function ISOToMac) converts between 
the Mac and Windows character sets. (Field text is converted 
automatically when you move between platforms, but object names 
aren't.)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From signe.sanne at roman.uib.no  Thu Aug 26 03:05:22 2004
From: signe.sanne at roman.uib.no (Signe Marie Sanne)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:05:22 +0200
Subject: Mac to Windows -- maybe text encoding
In-Reply-To: <BD52CC6C.5EA8%spiffsetz@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.8.2.20040826085216.00c42d70@alf.uib.no>

At 23:08 25.08.2004 -0600, you wrote:
>I have a problem that I think is related to text encoding, and I'm looking
>for suggestions.
>
>Here is the issue:
>
>(A) I wrote a HyperCard stack years ago to teach the International Phonetic
>Alphabet to students using games.
>(B) I used the excellent PalPhon font to display the IPA characters.
>(C) This year I decided to port the stack to Mac OS X, and hopefully
>Windows, using RunRev.
>(D) I switched to a newer font, IPAPhon, built by the original author of
>PalPhon. It comes in both Mac and Windows TrueType versions; since OS X can
>use either format, I used the windows TTFs for maximum compatibility).
>(E) I do all my work on a Mac running OS X, but I have access to RunRev for
>Windows and a decent Windows 2000 PC.

On my Windows XP there is no trace of IPAPhon, so I guess it is not part of 
the preinstalled fonts. If your students work in a Windows lab, you have to 
install the font on the computers.

I have chosen this strategy: When students have to work with phonetical 
symbols at home computers, I have always avoided to let them have to 
install any fonts. Instead I have done the development on the platform with 
the phonetical font, in this case on Mac. Then - for each symbol I have 
used Import --> Snapshot to create a small image of it. Voil?, no more need 
for having phonetical fonts present on either platform.

Hope this may give you some ideas to go on with.
Signe Marie Sanne

>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

1. amanuensis Signe Marie Sanne      e-mail: signe.sanne at roman.uib.no
Romansk Institutt                            tel:  +47 55 58 21 27
?isteins gt. 1
5007 Bergen             http://www.hf.uib.no/hfolk/mlab/Info/sms.html
Norway


From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Thu Aug 26 03:09:10 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:09:10 +0100
Subject: Text to Speech in windows
References: <20040826021848.55B60930172@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000901c48b3b$95ee24c0$5602a8c0@athalon>

Thanks Tuviah..much appreciated.

Judy wrote
>Well, I, as a Mac user, for one, do not agree.  I was happy when TTS was
>made available for Windows, as well as when Jonathan made a Windows
>version of Shakobox.
Of course you are right. Its a target machine issue rather than a developer 
machine issue anyway.
I guess the real reason is we all thought it was in hand anyway.

All we need now... is Windows to improve SAM :-)

Cheers Steve 


From tuviah at runrev.com  Thu Aug 26 06:32:04 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:32:04 -0400
Subject: revspeech.dll - three questions
References: <20040826070619.E8B88930169@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <001501c48b57$ee2934b0$1602a8c0@athlon>

>When the 2.5 release is ready for public consumption (I don't have it),
>where would the revspeech.dll file be placed in order to provide the
>text-to-speech function?
It will replace revspeech.dll in the standard distro and the sapi 4 version
will be renamed revspeechold.dll. They use entirely different apis
internally, so one dll cannot be compatible with both SAPI and SAPI5.

>Will there be any difference in how I am to code the handler between OSX
and
>XP versions of the distribution?
None.


Tuviah


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 26 06:57:54 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:57:54 +0200
Subject: writing an OS X package from a custom property
In-Reply-To: <4B18F310-F728-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <9780F882-F71B-11D8-9BFE-000A95AFF636@elementarysoftware.com>
	<4B18F310-F728-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C7F160C0-F74E-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bom dias Andre,

> ...
> cheers
> andre
>
> PS: if you're trully masoquist, you can create the DMG, use uucode and 
> store it on a field... but man that's evil!!!!!

Sounds like you already have some experience in this area... :-D

>> -Scott Morrow
>> Elementary Software
> -- 
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org

Best from germany

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From doupsy at wanadoo.fr  Wed Aug 25 16:54:40 2004
From: doupsy at wanadoo.fr (doupsy at wanadoo.fr)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:54:40 +0200
Subject: dial
Message-ID: <FBBC1371-F6D8-11D8-B1F0-0003937E4820@wanadoo.fr>

Hello,

With Hypercard, it was very very simple to dial a phone number ( dial 
"05 02 00 00 00 for ex" with modem ).
Only you click  with one hand on a button to dial and with other hand 
you take your t?l?phone to your ear.

Why it is impossible to dial with Revolution ?
(I am under OS X)

I try :

close driver "/dev/cu.modem"
open driver "/dev/cu.modem"
write "ATDT"&PhoneNumber&CR to  driver "/dev/cu.modem"
read from driver "/dev/cu.modem" until eof
(write "ATH"&cr to driver "/dev/cu.modem"
read from driver "/dev/cu.modem" until eof)

With Revolution you must think when you must click on the button to 
dial, when you must lift the receiver, when you must hang up, etc....
And most often, the application crash.

Could you help me, or not ?

I am not an informatician.

Thanks

Edouard



From hmv-3 at valas.kpo.fi  Thu Aug 26 01:27:55 2004
From: hmv-3 at valas.kpo.fi (Marko Manninen)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:27:55 +0300
Subject: Printing records from the database
Message-ID: <200408260527.i7Q5RtTi014560@valas.kpo.fi>

Hey
 
My name is Marko Manninen and i just downloaded the trial version of 
Revolution because i needed to examine if it's going to be my developing 
tool for some projejects. After reading database faq i still didn't get 
answer to my biggest interest. Is it possible to print all records ( two 
records in one paper) straight from the database in Revolution v 2.xx? I 
need to put information in card like in to traditional form. 
 
Other question is, if it's possible to print to the custom sized paper 
from the revolution (from the database records)? And what is the 
procedure with both printing cases?
 
Thanks,
Marko

From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Thu Aug 26 10:19:26 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:19:26 -0400
Subject: writing an OS X package from a custom property
In-Reply-To: <4B18F310-F728-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <9780F882-F71B-11D8-9BFE-000A95AFF636@elementarysoftware.com>
	<4B18F310-F728-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <EF8AD6F0-F76A-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

> custom prop. Be aware that using zip compression might destroy the 
> data fork of

The resource fork, actually.  The data fork is what would be retained.


An alternative method to solving this problem would be to use array 
notation (custom property set ?) to read in and store each individual 
file in the bundle, rather than try to read it as a whole.  Bear in 
mind that this would mean recreating the bundle's internal structure -- 
directories and all -- when spitting it back out later on.

If you are distributing a standalone for OS X, it might be easier to 
simply copy the needed bundle into the resources folder of your 
standalone app bundle, then copy it back out when it needs to be 
installed.



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com


From bvg at mac.com  Thu Aug 26 10:23:23 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:23:23 +0200
Subject: anyone here would use simple httpd or ftpd code?
In-Reply-To: <6904E9A7-F715-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <6904E9A7-F715-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7CDBFDF4-F76B-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>

Well, we talked about this in the chat...
Basica ftp upload would be very helpful if one of the chatters is 
behind a firewall/non-configurable router, but I'll take what I can 
get, so having a ftp server to download stuff directly from someone 
would be nice already!


On Aug 26 2004, at 06:07, Andre Garzia wrote:

> hi folks,
>
>
> I am building this huge lib for handling netservices like http and 
> ftp. Although I am not near my milestone 1, it's pretty usable so I 
> was wondering if anyone here is really waiting for this and would like 
> a libNetServices Lite version. What it can currently do is:
>
> * Serve Pages, both dynamic stacks and static pages.
> * Serve files by ftp both passive and active ftp.
> * XML-RPC Server Side.
>
> missing parts are: FTP Resume and Upload, Cookie Handling (actually 
> you can read them, not set them right now).
>
> hugz
> andre
>
> -- 
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.1.rev"


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 26 12:05:22 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:05:22 -0700
Subject: anyone here would use simple httpd or ftpd code?
In-Reply-To: <6904E9A7-F715-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BBF351E8-F779-11D8-B7C7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, August 25, 2004, at 09:07 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> missing parts are: FTP Resume and Upload, Cookie Handling (actually 
> you can read them, not set them right now).
>
> hugz
> andre

I was going to begin working of FTP Upload from my standalone apps on 
user's own machines.

Mark


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 26 12:07:18 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:07:18 -0700
Subject: Two feature requests
In-Reply-To: <7384DCC4-F721-11D8-9D6F-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <00F8DCDA-F77A-11D8-B7C7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, August 25, 2004, at 10:33 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> This is well-known as bugzilla entry #670, and has an impressive 
> number of votes to its credit. I believe it may well be the single 
> most requested feature to date.

Now that I know how to use bugzilla I think I'll add five.

Mark


From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 26 11:03:31 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:03:31 -0400
Subject: Two feature requests
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEFPGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEFPGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <17E434AE-F771-11D8-AB38-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 26, 2004, at 3:04 AM, MisterX wrote:

> What's wrong with the table object anyway?

Let's just say that a Rapid Application Development tool should offer a 
versatile data grid as part of the toolkit. The table object does not 
qualify, neither does a field.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 26 12:30:48 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:30:48 -0400
Subject: Two feature requests
In-Reply-To: <00F8DCDA-F77A-11D8-B7C7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <00F8DCDA-F77A-11D8-B7C7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <49984668-F77D-11D8-AB38-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 26, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>
>> This is well-known as bugzilla entry #670, and has an impressive  
>> number of votes to its credit. I believe it may well be the single  
>> most requested feature to date.
>
> Now that I know how to use bugzilla I think I'll add five.

As lousy as bugzilla is, it is worthwhile to at least get the basics  
down, so that you can add your voice to what is important to you.

<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi? 
id=670>

Note, that for a supposedly "Mac-Centric" company as RunRev is often  
suggested to be, the choice in Bugzilla is a rather contrary one, since  
it behaves extremely poorly in Safari. Ken Ray's RevZilla is a good  
alternative, otherwise you need to get access to Safari's debug menu so  
that you can tell Safari to identify itself as MSIE to the server - at  
which point Bugzilla will work OK.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From Meitnik at aol.com  Thu Aug 26 13:23:59 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:23:59 EDT
Subject: new speech dll and standalone
Message-ID: <5b.5758efc3.2e5f76af@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/26/04 12:04:47 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> It will replace revspeech.dll in the standard distro and the sapi 4 version
> will be renamed revspeechold.dll. They use entirely different apis
> internally, so one dll cannot be compatible with both SAPI and SAPI5.
> -- Good, and thank you. How will SB handle the different critters?
> 
Andrew



From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Aug 26 13:27:28 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:27:28 -0300
Subject: anyone here would use simple httpd or ftpd code?
In-Reply-To: <BBF351E8-F779-11D8-B7C7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
References: <BBF351E8-F779-11D8-B7C7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3407B5EE-F785-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 26, 2004, at 1:05 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> I was going to begin working of FTP Upload from my standalone apps on 
> user's own machines.
>
> Mark
>

Mark,

when you say upload, you're talking about what point of view, the 
server or the client, we have built-in functions in Rev to make uploads 
to a given server, the missing part of FTPd is to accept uploads from a 
client (it's easy, I just don't have the time to doit)

cheers



>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Aug 26 13:28:41 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:28:41 -0700
Subject: Two feature requests
In-Reply-To: <49984668-F77D-11D8-AB38-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <00F8DCDA-F77A-11D8-B7C7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
	<49984668-F77D-11D8-AB38-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <412E1DC9.9010407@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:

> Note, that for a supposedly "Mac-Centric" company as RunRev is often  
> suggested to be, the choice in Bugzilla is a rather contrary one, since  
> it behaves extremely poorly in Safari. Ken Ray's RevZilla is a good  
> alternative, otherwise you need to get access to Safari's debug menu so  
> that you can tell Safari to identify itself as MSIE to the server - at  
> which point Bugzilla will work OK.

That's a good tip -- thanks for posting that.

As far as choosing Bugzilla, it's one of the leading bug-tracking 
systems and the price is unbeatable:  free (as in both beer and speech). 
  It's not easy finding something at that price with equivalent features.

Yes, Bugzilla has some rough edges and yes, Apple has some weird merde 
going on with Safari (I switched to Mozilla last year and never looked 
back -- thank you Jacque for the recommendation).

You can help see these issues corrected by reporting them to those who 
can address them -

    Bugzilla:
    <http://www.bugzilla.org/developers/reporting_bugs.html>

    Safari:
    Select "Report Bugs to Apple..." from the "Safari" menu.

If you would like to contribute directly to Bugzilla's evolution there 
are many opportunities for lending a hand -- not just programming, but 
also with documentation and testing:
<http://www.bugzilla.org/developers/how_to_help.html>

I agree they could use some help in the UI department and if I wasn't 
already committed to other open source projects I'd volunteer to help 
document either Bugzilla or Mozilla, but alas my landlord expects me to 
give priority to client work (as soon as we get open source housing and 
open source groceries I'll happy devote all of my time to open source 
software). :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 26 13:43:06 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:43:06 +0200
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
Message-ID: <62F41648-F787-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi all,

can someone please enlighten me if i am missing something here?


This is one of my "feature requests", Bugzilla 1032:

############################
2003-12-05:

To be able to position the label-text of buttons directly on top of 
their icons.
This way we wouldn't need so many workaround to make this happen ;-)

Thank you...

Klaus Major

----------
Posted by RevZilla 1.1

------- Additional Comment  #1 From  Mark  2004-03-21 04:19 -------
Something like changing the textHeight of a button?

  ------- Additional Comment  #2 From  Klaus Major  2004-03-21 06:20 
-------
##Something like changing the textHeight of a button?
I have no idea...
But as long this will position the label on top of the icon, its OK ;-)

Regards

Klaus Major

  ------- Additional Comment  #3 From  Kevin Miller  2004-04-29 18:53 
-------
This is now included in the shipping version 2.2.  Thanks for the 
request.
###############################

I added 2 other comments, but no response, the thing is "resolved as 
fixed"

I searched desparately, but did not find this "included" new feature...?

Please help :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From bill at igame3d.com  Thu Aug 26 14:10:40 2004
From: bill at igame3d.com (william griffin)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:10:40 -0400
Subject: anyone here would use simple httpd or ftpd code?
In-Reply-To: <20040826070619.E8B88930169@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040826070619.E8B88930169@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3D61B357-F78B-11D8-8953-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

>
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 01:07:13 -0300
> From: Andre Garzia <soapdog at mac.com>
> Subject: anyone here would use simple httpd or ftpd code?
> hi folks,
>
> I am building this huge lib for handling netservices like http and ftp.
> Although I am not near my milestone 1, it's pretty usable so I was
> wondering if anyone here is really waiting for this and would like a
> libNetServices Lite version. What it can currently do is:
>
> * Serve Pages, both dynamic stacks and static pages.
> * Serve files by ftp both passive and active ftp.
> * XML-RPC Server Side.
>
> missing parts are: FTP Resume and Upload, Cookie Handling (actually you
> can read them, not set them right now).
>
> hugz
> andre
>
> -- 
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
>
Sounds good, I think this would be a great addtion to the ChatRev, 
especially for getting
our individual user modifications of the server and client up to a 
central location,
and for serving up games and game data files in the future.

Hit me up for testing when you need some.

See you in ChatRev :)

Mr Bill


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug 26 14:21:45 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:21:45 -0500
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <62F41648-F787-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BD539469.4876%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/26/04 12:43 PM, "Klaus Major" <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

> I added 2 other comments, but no response, the thing is "resolved as
> fixed"
> 
> I searched desparately, but did not find this "included" new feature...?

Actually, it's not the textHeight, but the margins. If you set the margins
to a large value, the button text shifts up. It's still an odd effect,
though, because if you're showing the button itself (i.e. it's border, etc.)
the icon and the text that goes over it is not vertically centered to the
button - the icon remains where it would be if there was text below it; it's
just that the text moved.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Aug 26 14:27:31 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:27:31 -0700
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <62F41648-F787-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <62F41648-F787-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <97C03906-F78D-11D8-8D7B-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 26, 2004, at 10:43 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> can someone please enlighten me if i am missing something here?
>
>
> This is one of my "feature requests", Bugzilla 1032:
>
> ############################
> 2003-12-05:
>
> To be able to position the label-text of buttons directly on top of 
> their icons.
> This way we wouldn't need so many workaround to make this happen ;-)

I don't know what to tell you except that I would really like to see 
this as well.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug 26 14:27:17 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:27:17 -0500
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
Message-ID: <BD5395B5.4878%kray@sonsothunder.com>

I'm getting ready to have some time available to enhance RevZilla, and want
to make sure that I am adding things in the order that people will most want
them. The current version is 1.1.2, and I have a 1.1.3 that hasn't been
released yet, but has the following additions:

- Added support for Firefox to the OS X browser list
- Added info about trying to use AOL with RevZilla
- A few cosmetic adjustments

So for those of you who use RevZilla, can you please let me know what would
be your top 2 features you'd like to see added? Based on feedback, that will
allow me to determine which is most needed by the Rev community.

Thanks, 

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 26 14:27:00 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:27:00 -0400
Subject: hiliteColor
In-Reply-To: <BD528599.47CD%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD528599.47CD%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <85357BF4-F78D-11D8-AB38-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 25, 2004, at 7:06 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> I just tried it under Rev 2.2 on XP (created a simple stack with a 
> button
> and executed your "set the hiliteColor" from the message box), and it 
> works
> just fine here.

Still having some difficulty with this. What is the name of the 
property which determines the color a bevel button uses when pressed? 
It is also the same property which a popup menu uses to show the 
currently selected line, but it is apparently *not* the hiliteColor, 
which is what is used for the selected line in a field.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Aug 26 14:31:39 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:31:39 -0700
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <BD539469.4876%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD539469.4876%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <2B803788-F78E-11D8-8D7B-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 26, 2004, at 11:21 AM, Ken Ray wrote:
> It's still an odd effect,
> though, because if you're showing the button itself (i.e. it's border, 
> etc.)
> the icon and the text that goes over it is not vertically centered to 
> the
> button - the icon remains where it would be if there was text below 
> it; it's
> just that the text moved.

Which creates problems if the button style is transparent since the 
user can still click on that area (which appears as if there is nothing 
there).


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Aug 26 15:06:03 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:06:03 -0400
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <76EC3CF6-F625-11D8-BE4D-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F9B1FDD5-F792-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

What is the docking handler ?
Hershel
On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 07:29 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 04:25 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:
>
>> Nothing too magical under the hood.  It is a bunch of fields aligned 
>> next to each other.  I will see what it takes to rip it out of my 
>> program and post it.  I expect to be back into that program next >> week.
>
> Don't hurry on my account. I don't need it. I would just work on the 
> docking handler if I had nothing better to do. (I wish)
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug 26 15:46:03 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:46:03 -0500
Subject: Two feature requests
In-Reply-To: <412E1DC9.9010407@fourthworld.com>
References: <00F8DCDA-F77A-11D8-B7C7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
	<49984668-F77D-11D8-AB38-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<412E1DC9.9010407@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <412E3DFB.2070603@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/26/04 12:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Yes, Bugzilla has some rough edges and yes, Apple has some weird merde 
> going on with Safari (I switched to Mozilla last year and never looked 
> back -- thank you Jacque for the recommendation).

I love it like no other. Oh wait. That's a different software product. ;)

> (as soon as we get open source housing and 
> open source groceries I'll happy devote all of my time to open source 
> software). :)

Trust me, you don't want open-source groceries.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From davis.phil at comcast.net  Thu Aug 26 15:57:33 2004
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:57:33 -0700
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <62F41648-F787-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <62F41648-F787-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <412E40AD.50605@comcast.net>

That's funny - this is identical to one of my bugs, #819:

########## start 819 #########

2003-10-20:
Give option to show text ON (not below) buttons with icons

Add a feature that lets you position the name or label of a button 
within the button's rect, even when the button has icons. When icons 
are used, the label should appear in the button's foreground, with 
the icon in its background, "behind" the label.

This would eliminate the need for the "two buttons" workaround in 
many cases.

Currently you can get the label to appear within the rect of an icon 
button by manipulating the margins prop, but the label currently 
appears behind the icon. No joy.

----------
Posted by RevZilla 1.0

     ------- Additional Comment
       #1 From
       Tuviah Snyder
       2004-03-28 20:42 -------

OK anyone have any problem with me changing this for 2.2?

Only thing I can see this breaking is people who already obscure 
text using an image.

############ end 819 ##########

Phil Davis



Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> can someone please enlighten me if i am missing something here?
> 
> 
> This is one of my "feature requests", Bugzilla 1032:
> 
> ############################
> 2003-12-05:
> 
> To be able to position the label-text of buttons directly on top of 
> their icons.
> This way we wouldn't need so many workaround to make this happen ;-)
> 
> Thank you...
> 
> Klaus Major
> 
> ----------
> Posted by RevZilla 1.1
> 
> ------- Additional Comment  #1 From  Mark  2004-03-21 04:19 -------
> Something like changing the textHeight of a button?
> 
>  ------- Additional Comment  #2 From  Klaus Major  2004-03-21 06:20 -------
> ##Something like changing the textHeight of a button?
> I have no idea...
> But as long this will position the label on top of the icon, its OK ;-)
> 
> Regards
> 
> Klaus Major
> 
>  ------- Additional Comment  #3 From  Kevin Miller  2004-04-29 18:53 
> -------
> This is now included in the shipping version 2.2.  Thanks for the request.
> ###############################
> 
> I added 2 other comments, but no response, the thing is "resolved as fixed"
> 
> I searched desparately, but did not find this "included" new feature...?
> 
> Please help :-)
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug 26 16:02:37 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:02:37 -0500
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <BD539469.4876%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD539469.4876%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <412E41DD.4030603@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/26/04 1:21 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 8/26/04 12:43 PM, "Klaus Major" <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I added 2 other comments, but no response, the thing is "resolved as
>>fixed"
>>
>>I searched desparately, but did not find this "included" new feature...?
> 
> 
> Actually, it's not the textHeight, but the margins. If you set the margins
> to a large value, the button text shifts up. It's still an odd effect,
> though, because if you're showing the button itself (i.e. it's border, etc.)
> the icon and the text that goes over it is not vertically centered to the
> button - the icon remains where it would be if there was text below it; it's
> just that the text moved.

This is weird. If you set the margins using a single number ("set the 
margins to 20",) you get what you describe above. If you set the margins 
using a series of four numbers ("set the margins to 5,10,20,10"), it 
only uses the first one.

BUT: If you set the margins using a single number, which forces the text 
label upward, and then you set the topmargin separately -- voila -- the 
icon moves down.

And THEN: thinking that setting the bottomMargin separately would then 
move the text upward again, I did that. And both the icon and text moved 
up together.

At any rate, it looks like you can get good results by doing this:

   set the margins to 20
   set the topmargin to 25

Or something similar.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Aug 26 16:04:06 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:04:06 -0600
Subject: Table Field features (for v2.5)
Message-ID: <BD539E56.2556%themacguy@macosx.com>

Just played with the table field (and locked up the beta when tabbing out of
the second column or "return"ing out of the second row).

Reviewing the commentary about the requested feature set for this object, I
can only point to RB's implementation as what I want. Head over to the RB
website to see this.

The number of columns and rows are user-defined so no "extras" are seen
hanging over from outside the object's rect (partially scrolled out of view,
so to speak). With a small amount of code (about 12 lines), support for
"returns" and "tabs" selects the content of the next cell (down or across,
respectively) and wraps around in a logical manner (to the next row or
column, respectively).

There is code within RB to populate such a list from a database. Rev, also,
has such code.

But we should not zero in on this table field as only having a use with
databases! Rev's stack-of-cards metaphor permits this object to be quite
useful for a number of purposes beyond a vessel for SQL retrieval.

Let's consider what might happen when a user tabs into the cell; perhaps it
triggers a handler to bring up a choice list (like  FileMaker or Access). I
realize that feature is a big jump from a simple "block of editable cells"
so I won't request this for v2.5 (maybe 3.5). However, causing a drop-down
list or popup menu or even a little modal dialog to appear at the
appropriate location is do-able given the current (stable release) state of
Rev.

What about when a user clicks on (or keyboards into) a cell (whether its
contents are editable or not). Such an event ("on activate x,y" where x,y
indicates the cell) could be the trigger for spreadsheet-like calculations
(with the existing math functions and "plain old Transcript" handlers;
nothing new required for this). Example: Enter "1000" into a cell, tab out
of it, and the adjacent cell gets a new value based upon some handler.
Asssuming this cell is not editable (by setting a property in an openCard
handler presumably), a "tab" would skip over this cell and activate the next
(in the "tab" order or whatever we set in a handler or property). Again, I'm
not calling for this object to handle hidden formulae (like Excel) so that
only the value is displayed; do we really need another Excel or AppleWorks?

What I had to do in HyperCard (in 1988) to emulate a multi-column edit field
was to line up as many list fields as I required but I could not permit the
user to enter any data in the fields; rather, I had to intercept the
mouseClick and present a dialog in which the user could enter the data for
each cell. I was finally able to improve the interface to a larger dialog
which would permit "a row at a time" worth of data. Haven't we progessed in
16 years? Well, considering the v2.5 Rev beta, it looks like we're getting
there.

So I really hope people won't look at this posting as a diatribe nor as a
series of complaints; rather, this is a list of suggestions. It is entirely
possible that 2.5beta has the "on activate" type of handler for a cell but I
haven't been able to get much out of this object in the beta yet.

Regards,
Barry



From JaysLists at triad.rr.com  Thu Aug 26 16:15:16 2004
From: JaysLists at triad.rr.com (Jay Madren)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:15:16 -0400
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <BD5395B5.4878%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIGHFGLCPMCDMJOHHAELIEAAA.JaysLists@triad.rr.com>

Ken,

Well, I've got 3 that are all equally important. :)

Either make the bug display form wider or make it remember its size when I
change it.  Needed because, at least on my system, line breaks in the
description seem to be hard coded, so then of course your line wrapping
doesn't really reformat it properly to better fit the space.

Add Version to the bug list table.  To help with conserving space, you could
get rid of the Priority column (no one hardly uses it - almost all of them
are P2).

Need a way to easily select a range of choices from the drop-down lists in
search.  On bugzilla I can do this by clicking on one entry then
shift-clicking on another to select all entries in between.  This is useful
for, lets say, quickly selecting all versions except 2.5.

Jay Madren

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ray
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 14:27
To: Use Revolution List; Improve Revolution List
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?


I'm getting ready to have some time available to enhance RevZilla, and want
to make sure that I am adding things in the order that people will most want
them. The current version is 1.1.2, and I have a 1.1.3 that hasn't been
released yet, but has the following additions:

- Added support for Firefox to the OS X browser list
- Added info about trying to use AOL with RevZilla
- A few cosmetic adjustments

So for those of you who use RevZilla, can you please let me know what would
be your top 2 features you'd like to see added? Based on feedback, that will
allow me to determine which is most needed by the Rev community.

Thanks,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 26 16:24:45 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:24:45 -0400
Subject: Table Field features (for v2.5)
In-Reply-To: <BD539E56.2556%themacguy@macosx.com>
References: <BD539E56.2556%themacguy@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <F85E9138-F79D-11D8-AB38-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 26, 2004, at 4:04 PM, Barry Levine wrote:

> So I really hope people won't look at this posting as a diatribe nor 
> as a
> series of complaints; rather, this is a list of suggestions. It is 
> entirely
> possible that 2.5beta has the "on activate" type of handler for a cell 
> but I
> haven't been able to get much out of this object in the beta yet.

AFAIK, the table in 2.5 hasn't seen any significant differences from 
that in 2.2. Which is to say, it still makes a poor data grid in 
relation to what we would like to see.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Thu Aug 26 16:25:20 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:25:20 -0400
Subject: Reading data from BLOB objects
In-Reply-To: <12087764-DF1B-11D8-B055-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
References: <02C57D0F-DA92-11D8-AFA1-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<p061005fdbd2346fea81e@[4.243.227.185]>
	<55D5728E-DCD9-11D8-9466-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<12087764-DF1B-11D8-B055-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <0D3DDCA4-F79E-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Bugzilla Bug #369 indicates that there was a problem with BLOBs and 
PostgreSQL, but that it was fixed.  Does anyone know which version of 
Rev this was fixed in?  I've been trying with version 2.2.1, but it 
does not seem to be working for me.

Thank you!



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug 26 16:27:01 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:27:01 -0500
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <412E40AD.50605@comcast.net>
References: <62F41648-F787-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<412E40AD.50605@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <412E4795.6050601@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/26/04 2:57 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

> That's funny - this is identical to one of my bugs, #819:
> 
> ########## start 819 #########
> 
> 2003-10-20:
> Give option to show text ON (not below) buttons with icons
> 
> Add a feature that lets you position the name or label of a button 
> within the button's rect, even when the button has icons. When icons are 
> used, the label should appear in the button's foreground, with the icon 
> in its background, "behind" the label.
> 
> This would eliminate the need for the "two buttons" workaround in many 
> cases.
> 
> Currently you can get the label to appear within the rect of an icon 
> button by manipulating the margins prop, but the label currently appears 
> behind the icon. No joy.

Try this: Make a button 128 pixels square. Give it a big icon (I used 
803). Then:

set the margins of btn 1 to 40
set the topmargin of btn 1 to 60
set the textcolor of btn 1 to "blue"
set the textstyle of btn 1 to "bold"
set the textsize of btn 1 to 20

On my Mac, I get a blue label over the picture (not behind it) and the 
icon is vertically centered (well, close. Play with the numbers.)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 26 16:31:59 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:31:59 +0200
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <412E40AD.50605@comcast.net>
References: <62F41648-F787-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<412E40AD.50605@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FAF940F4-F79E-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Phil,

> That's funny - this is identical to one of my bugs, #819:

Well, that's funny and true :-)

> ########## start 819 #########
> 2003-10-20:
> Give option to show text ON (not below) buttons with icons
> Add a feature that lets you position the name or label of a button 
> within the button's rect, even when the button has icons. When icons 
> are used, the label should appear in the button's foreground, with the 
> icon in its background, "behind" the label.
> This would eliminate the need for the "two buttons" workaround in many 
> cases.
> Currently you can get the label to appear within the rect of an icon 
> button by manipulating the margins prop, but the label currently 
> appears behind the icon. No joy.
> ----------
> Posted by RevZilla 1.0
>
>     ------- Additional Comment
>       #1 From
>       Tuviah Snyder
>       2004-03-28 20:42 -------
>
> OK anyone have any problem with me changing this for 2.2?

No, apparently :-)

> Only thing I can see this breaking is people who already obscure text 
> using an image.
> ############ end 819 ##########

But looks like they did NOT impelement this one :-(

And dealing with the margins is a pain in the "arsch" ;-)

Any comments from edinborough?

> Phil Davis
>

>> This is one of my "feature requests", Bugzilla 1032:
>> ############################
>> 2003-12-05:
>> To be able to position the label-text of buttons directly on top of 
>> their icons.
>> This way we wouldn't need so many workaround to make this happen ;-)
>> Thank you...
>> ...
>>  ------- Additional Comment  #3 From  Kevin Miller  2004-04-29 18:53 
>> -------
>> This is now included in the shipping version 2.2.  Thanks for the 
>> request.

If yes, then it is a very well kept secret :-D

>> ###############################
>> I added 2 other comments, but no response, the thing is "resolved as 
>> fixed"
>> I searched desparately, but did not find this "included" new 
>> feature...?
>> Please help :-)
>> Regards
>> Klaus Major
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> http://www.major-k.de

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 26 16:36:59 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:36:59 +0200
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <412E4795.6050601@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <62F41648-F787-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<412E40AD.50605@comcast.net> <412E4795.6050601@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <ADE00782-F79F-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Jaqueline,

> On 8/26/04 2:57 PM, Phil Davis wrote:
>> That's funny - this is identical to one of my bugs, #819:
>> ########## start 819 #########
>> 2003-10-20:
>> Give option to show text ON (not below) buttons with icons
>> Add a feature that lets you position the name or label of a button 
>> within the button's rect, even when the button has icons. When icons 
>> are used, the label should appear in the button's foreground, with 
>> the icon in its background, "behind" the label.
>> This would eliminate the need for the "two buttons" workaround in 
>> many cases.
>> Currently you can get the label to appear within the rect of an icon 
>> button by manipulating the margins prop, but the label currently 
>> appears behind the icon. No joy.
>
> Try this: Make a button 128 pixels square. Give it a big icon (I used 
> 803). Then:
>
> set the margins of btn 1 to 40
> set the topmargin of btn 1 to 60
> set the textcolor of btn 1 to "blue"
> set the textstyle of btn 1 to "bold"
> set the textsize of btn 1 to 20
>
> On my Mac, I get a blue label over the picture (not behind it) and the 
> icon is vertically centered (well, close. Play with the numbers.)

Thanks for trying to cheer me up, but this is not the "real McCoy" :-D

> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Aug 26 17:28:49 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:28:49 -0500
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <ADE00782-F79F-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <62F41648-F787-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<412E40AD.50605@comcast.net> <412E4795.6050601@hyperactivesw.com>
	<ADE00782-F79F-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <412E5611.4090401@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/26/04 3:36 PM, Klaus Major wrote:

 >> Try this: Make a button 128 pixels square. Give it a big icon (I used
 >> 803). Then:
 >>
 >> set the margins of btn 1 to 40
 >> set the topmargin of btn 1 to 60
 >> set the textcolor of btn 1 to "blue"
 >> set the textstyle of btn 1 to "bold"
 >> set the textsize of btn 1 to 20
 >>
 >> On my Mac, I get a blue label over the picture (not behind it) and the
 >> icon is vertically centered (well, close. Play with the numbers.)
 >
 >
 > Thanks for trying to cheer me up, but this is not the "real McCoy" :-D

I guess I don't understand then; what are you looking for exactly?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Thu Aug 26 18:23:29 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:23:29 -0400
Subject: Reading data from BLOB objects
In-Reply-To: <0D3DDCA4-F79E-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
References: <02C57D0F-DA92-11D8-AFA1-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<p061005fdbd2346fea81e@[4.243.227.185]>
	<55D5728E-DCD9-11D8-9466-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<12087764-DF1B-11D8-B055-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<0D3DDCA4-F79E-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <8EBF9BEF-F7AE-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

At least, I think this code is right; a simplified version::

   put "UPDATE aTable SET aBLOB=:1 WHERE aNumberField=aValue" into z
   put image "anImage" into dbImage
   revExecuteSQL the database of this stack, z, "*bdbImage"

Am I doing this right?

Thank you!

On Aug 26, 2004, at 4:25 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:

> Bugzilla Bug #369 indicates that there was a problem with BLOBs and 
> PostgreSQL, but that it was fixed.  Does anyone know which version of 
> Rev this was fixed in?  I've been trying with version 2.2.1, but it 
> does not seem to be working for me.
>
> Thank you!
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
> 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
> Signup at www.doteasy.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

From userev at canelasoftware.com  Thu Aug 26 18:26:08 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:26:08 -0700
Subject: Arrows nudge or not?
Message-ID: <ED740B3E-F7AE-11D8-B419-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

Should the arrows nudge controls when they are selected with the 
pointer tool in standalones as they do in the IDE?  Is this an IDE 
feature or something in the engine?

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Aug 26 18:30:14 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 00:30:14 +0200
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <412E5611.4090401@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <62F41648-F787-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<412E40AD.50605@comcast.net> <412E4795.6050601@hyperactivesw.com>
	<ADE00782-F79F-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<412E5611.4090401@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <7FE0C43C-F7AF-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Jaqueline,

> On 8/26/04 3:36 PM, Klaus Major wrote:
>
> >> Try this: Make a button 128 pixels square. Give it a big icon (I 
> used
> >> 803). Then:
> >>
> >> set the margins of btn 1 to 40
> >> set the topmargin of btn 1 to 60
> >> set the textcolor of btn 1 to "blue"
> >> set the textstyle of btn 1 to "bold"
> >> set the textsize of btn 1 to 20
> >>
> >> On my Mac, I get a blue label over the picture (not behind it) and 
> the
> >> icon is vertically centered (well, close. Play with the numbers.)
> >
> >
> > Thanks for trying to cheer me up, but this is not the "real McCoy" 
> :-D
>
> I guess I don't understand then; what are you looking for exactly?

Well, i think dealing with the margins is just too much fuss, i don't
want to "play with the numbers" ;-)

I'd like to see a simple checkbox or an additional radio-button for
the "text formatting" that does that with a single click or a one-liner
in the message box...

> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



P.S.
Dear RunRev team:
I promise to not drop RR and convert to RB in case this feature not 
going
to make it into the 2.5 release :-D


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 26 18:36:38 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:36:38 -0500
Subject: Altuit releases MagicCarpet (finally!)
Message-ID: <412E65F6.2040905@chipp.com>

Hey all, just thought I'd let you know we just released our latest 
product- "MagicCarpet." It runs on both MacOSX and WinXP.

MagicCarpet is version control software and has a plugin for Rev users 
as well. The Rev team has used it in developing the latest version of 
Revolution and we're hoping to ship it with a future version of Enterprise.

The website is at:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetCover/default.htm

We've also added a pretty cool learning system we call
"Video Classroom" which walks you through step-by-step, setting up and 
using MagicCarpet.

best,

Chipp Walters
Altuit, Inc.

From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Aug 26 19:41:23 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 00:41:23 +0100
Subject: Altuit releases MagicCarpet (finally!)
In-Reply-To: <412E65F6.2040905@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040827002953.07b575d0@mail.tweedly.net>

At 17:36 26/08/2004 -0500, Chipp Walters wrote:

>Hey all, just thought I'd let you know we just released our latest 
>product- "MagicCarpet." It runs on both MacOSX and WinXP.

Is it really WinXP, or Windows in general  (i.e. how about W2000) ?

I would have assumed it was not XP specific, just the way you happened to 
say it, except that the About page also says "WinXP PCs ...

Thanks
-- Alex.

From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Aug 26 19:41:23 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 00:41:23 +0100
Subject: Altuit releases MagicCarpet (finally!)
In-Reply-To: <412E65F6.2040905@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040827002953.07b575d0@mail.tweedly.net>

At 17:36 26/08/2004 -0500, Chipp Walters wrote:

>Hey all, just thought I'd let you know we just released our latest 
>product- "MagicCarpet." It runs on both MacOSX and WinXP.

Is it really WinXP, or Windows in general  (i.e. how about W2000) ?

I would have assumed it was not XP specific, just the way you happened to 
say it, except that the About page also says "WinXP PCs ...

Thanks
-- Alex.

From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Aug 26 19:38:04 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:38:04 -0500
Subject: Altuit releases MagicCarpet (finally!)
Message-ID: <412E745C.90702@chipp.com>

Hey all, just thought I'd let you know we just released our latest
product- "MagicCarpet." It runs on both MacOSX and WinXP.

MagicCarpet is version control software and has a plugin for Rev users
as well. The Rev team has used it in developing the latest version of
Revolution and we're hoping to ship it with a future version of Enterprise.

The website is at:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetCover/default.htm

We've also added a pretty cool learning system we call
"Video Classroom" which walks you through step-by-step, setting up and
using MagicCarpet.

best,

Chipp Walters
Altuit, Inc.
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 26 20:05:01 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:05:01 -0400
Subject: Altuit releases MagicCarpet (finally!)
In-Reply-To: <412E745C.90702@chipp.com>
References: <412E745C.90702@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BDAC8632-F7BC-11D8-9384-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

 From the video, this looks like one sweet app, Chipp. Congratulations!

And the video is a superb way to take people through the function of 
Magic Carpet.  I especially like the way you take the time to explain 
the nuances of the various files in the files list, how they are made, 
stored and retrieved...down to making sure that people know that a 
version number entered in Magic Carpet does NOT affect the version 
number set in the app itself.  A really nice touch!

M

On Aug 26, 2004, at 7:38 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Hey all, just thought I'd let you know we just released our latest
> product- "MagicCarpet." It runs on both MacOSX and WinXP.
>
> MagicCarpet is version control software and has a plugin for Rev users
> as well. The Rev team has used it in developing the latest version of
> Revolution and we're hoping to ship it with a future version of 
> Enterprise.
>
> The website is at:
>
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetCover/default.htm
>
> We've also added a pretty cool learning system we call
> "Video Classroom" which walks you through step-by-step, setting up and
> using MagicCarpet.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp Walters
> Altuit, Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From frank at backtalk.com  Thu Aug 26 20:36:12 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:36:12 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Web Photos Pro 1.0b11 and FREE License Keys...
Message-ID: <19108AFD-F7C1-11D8-8BEE-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Hello all,

Version 1.0b11 of Web Photos Pro for Mac OS X and Windows XP/2000 is 
available for download.  This is a quick turnaround version based on 
feedback from the beta10 release on Monday.  Many thanks to everyone 
who sent in feedback!

I'm offering a free license key to Web Photos Pro v1.0 to anyone who 
uses the product to upload 3 or more albums with at least 10 photos in 
each album.  Simply send me a url of the albums you've uploaded, and 
I'll send you a free license key when the product ships (offer good 
until September 7, 2004).

Home page: http://www.webphotospro.com/
Downloads:  http://www.webphotospro.com/downloads/
Release notes: 
http://www.webphotospro.com/archives/category/release-notes/

Kind regards,
-- Frank Leahy

Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/


From markgreenberg at cox.net  Thu Aug 26 21:03:50 2004
From: markgreenberg at cox.net (Mark Greenberg)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:03:50 -0700
Subject: Link to an Educational Stack
Message-ID: <F562DF22-F7C4-11D8-B4EE-000A959B61BE@cox.net>

Alejandro Tejada has been kind enough to help me post one of my 
educational stacks on his server space:  
http://69.73.172.57/~jalejand/MG_01.zip

This is one of my simpler stacks, but effective.  It does not teach the 
students from scratch, the teacher does that.  Instead it gives the 
students practice with the concept so they can feel comfortable with it 
and remember it.

The stacks cover many high school subjects and could be adapted to 
lower grades.  I also have stacks written in HyperStudio if anyone is 
interested in those.

I have included the .rev stack and the standalone for Windows.  If 
there is interest in my type of stacks, perhaps I can post them one at 
a time.  Feel free to contact me off list too if you want.

Mark Greenberg
English Teacher

PS  The New York Times featured me and this teaching approach in the 
Circuit section last Thursday (front page).  That's me in the picture.

From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug 26 21:14:54 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:14:54 -0400
Subject: Altuit releases MagicCarpet (finally!)
In-Reply-To: <BDAC8632-F7BC-11D8-9384-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <412E745C.90702@chipp.com>
	<BDAC8632-F7BC-11D8-9384-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <80DD1CC6-F7C6-11D8-A634-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 26, 2004, at 8:05 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> From the video, this looks like one sweet app, Chipp. Congratulations!

Indeed. Outstanding.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Thu Aug 26 21:21:09 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:21:09 -0400
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <BD5395B5.4878%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BD5404C5.2CDF%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

Please fix it so that the update function which loads the pop-up buttons
always works. I can't use Revzilla anymore to post a bug because it will say
"Retreving data from Bugzilla" but never load it into the pop-up buttons.
 Version 1.1.2

Also when reporting bugs with the 2.5b2 we are supposed to upload the
compressed log. It would be nice if we had a button for that..

On 8/26/04 2:27 PM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> I'm getting ready to have some time available to enhance RevZilla, and want
> to make sure that I am adding things in the order that people will most want
> them. The current version is 1.1.2, and I have a 1.1.3 that hasn't been
> released yet, but has the following additions:
> 
> - Added support for Firefox to the OS X browser list
> - Added info about trying to use AOL with RevZilla
> - A few cosmetic adjustments
> 
> So for those of you who use RevZilla, can you please let me know what would
> be your top 2 features you'd like to see added? Based on feedback, that will
> allow me to determine which is most needed by the Rev community.
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug 26 21:48:13 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:48:13 -0500
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIGHFGLCPMCDMJOHHAELIEAAA.JaysLists@triad.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BD53FD0D.48C1%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/26/04 3:15 PM, "Jay Madren" <JaysLists at triad.rr.com> wrote:

> Ken,
> 
> Well, I've got 3 that are all equally important. :)
> 
> Either make the bug display form wider or make it remember its size when I
> change it.  Needed because, at least on my system, line breaks in the
> description seem to be hard coded, so then of course your line wrapping
> doesn't really reformat it properly to better fit the space.

Agreed. I'll add that to my list.

> Add Version to the bug list table.  To help with conserving space, you could
> get rid of the Priority column (no one hardly uses it - almost all of them
> are P2).

Sounds good.

> Need a way to easily select a range of choices from the drop-down lists in
> search.  On bugzilla I can do this by clicking on one entry then
> shift-clicking on another to select all entries in between.  This is useful
> for, lets say, quickly selecting all versions except 2.5.

Actually, if you select more than one thing from the same popup menu in
Search (the ones under the separator line), the label will change to
"Multiple" and you'll get multiple checkmarks next to them which will
indicate that you can search on mutiple items within a popup menu. Let me
know if this will work for you; if not, let me know what you'd like to do
instead (or in addition).

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug 26 22:03:56 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:03:56 -0500
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <BD5404C5.2CDF%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <BD5400BC.48C5%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/26/04 8:21 PM, "Bill" <bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote:

> Please fix it so that the update function which loads the pop-up buttons
> always works. I can't use Revzilla anymore to post a bug because it will say
> "Retreving data from Bugzilla" but never load it into the pop-up buttons.
>  Version 1.1.2

This is probably because you haven't logged into *Bugzilla* in a while.
Unfortunately, the cookies expire and I don't know how to log into Bugzilla
from RevZilla, so if you don't have working popup menus, go to Options and
click "Login to Bugzilla" and log in using your web browser. The next time
you run RevZilla (assuming it hasn't been weeks), the popups should refresh.

Speaking of that, does anyone know how to log into Bugzilla *directly*
without using stored cookies?

> Also when reporting bugs with the 2.5b2 we are supposed to upload the
> compressed log. It would be nice if we had a button for that..

Ah... attachments. I'll add that to the list.

Thanks!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Aug 26 23:20:16 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:20:16 -0500
Subject: Printing records from the database
In-Reply-To: <200408260527.i7Q5RtTi014560@valas.kpo.fi>
Message-ID: <BD5412A0.48CD%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/26/04 12:27 AM, "Marko Manninen" <hmv-3 at valas.kpo.fi> wrote:

> My name is Marko Manninen and i just downloaded the trial version of
> Revolution because i needed to examine if it's going to be my developing
> tool for some projejects.

Hey, Marko - welcome to the Revolution List!

> After reading database faq i still didn't get
> answer to my biggest interest. Is it possible to print all records ( two
> records in one paper) straight from the database in Revolution v 2.xx? I
> need to put information in card like in to traditional form.

The short answer is "yes", but the longer answer is what needs to be done in
order to get what you're looking for. Revolution has a simple structure for
printing sets of cards to the printer, but for a more serious "reporting"
package, we'll have to wait a short time - a third party is in the final
stages of a full blown reporting product for Revolution and this will
certainly allow you to do what you are asking for more easily. Prior to the
reporting package being released, you can do it, but it takes more work to
set up and test.
  
> Other question is, if it's possible to print to the custom sized paper
> from the revolution (from the database records)? And what is the
> procedure with both printing cases?

Revolution allows you to build printable areas as large or as small as you
like, so you'd just have to design a card so that it wasn't too large for
your paper. (This may have to be done by trial and error a couple of times,
but then it will work properly from that point on.)

Hope that helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From userev at canelasoftware.com  Thu Aug 26 23:42:02 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:42:02 -0700
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <BD5395B5.4878%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD5395B5.4878%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <0EDFDE8D-F7DB-11D8-BCA9-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>


On Aug 26, 2004, at 11:27 AM, Ken Ray wrote:
>
>
> So for those of you who use RevZilla, can you please let me know what 
> would
> be your top 2 features you'd like to see added? Based on feedback, 
> that will
> allow me to determine which is most needed by the Rev community.
>
>

1.  It would be cool if we could add comments to an existing bug.
2.  Would also be useful if we could resize the main window.  Sometimes 
I find myself using the horizontal slider way too much.

I use this program everyday.  You are doing a good job Ken.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 27 00:22:24 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:22:24 -0700
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <F9B1FDD5-F792-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <B23A0594-F7E0-11D8-BAB0-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Thursday, August 26, 2004, at 12:06 PM, Hershel Fisch wrote:

> What is the docking handler ?
> Hershel

>> Don't hurry on my account. I don't need it. I would just work on the 
>> docking handler if I had nothing better to do. (I wish)
>>
>> Mark

It's a reference to a possible library of duplicatable functions that 
would doc individual fields into columns and rows and size them 
properly based on border sizes for each row or column. It should also 
set line hight and font types and sizes. It should probably be done as 
an array or set of arrays and stored using a pull-parser in MTML. :-) 
There should also be global attributes for column formatting. All this 
should be like a spreadsheet layout processor. It should even handle 
the naming conventions for each field with names like r1c1, r2c1, r1c2, 
etc... It should even handle math attributes for running calculations 
from one field, ranges of fields into another field or fields. In other 
words it should be a stack that acts like a storable spreadsheet. 
Having object control over individual field objects could lead to 
extremely powerful acting spreadsheets.

Now there's a bit of work for the person that has nothing better to do.

Mark


From spiffsetz at mac.com  Fri Aug 27 00:22:45 2004
From: spiffsetz at mac.com (Steve and Lee Ann Setzer)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:22:45 -0600
Subject: Mac to Windows -- maybe text encoding
In-Reply-To: <20040826070619.E8B88930169@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD541335.5EBA%spiffsetz@mac.com>

Thanks to Jeanne A. E. DeVoto for the suggestion on the MactoISO and
ISOtoMac functions, I'll try that.

The other suggestion (from Signe Marie Sanne) was interesting and I may look
at designing future stacks around it, but would require a significant
rewrite for me at this point. Thanks though.

Steve Setzer


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Aug 27 00:31:08 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 23:31:08 -0500
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <0EDFDE8D-F7DB-11D8-BCA9-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <BD54233C.48D4%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/26/04 10:42 PM, "Mark Talluto" <userev at canelasoftware.com> wrote:

> 1.  It would be cool if we could add comments to an existing bug.

Agreed.

> 2.  Would also be useful if we could resize the main window.  Sometimes
> I find myself using the horizontal slider way too much.

That's 2 votes... :-)

> I use this program everyday.  You are doing a good job Ken.

Thanks, Mark!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From themacguy at macosx.com  Fri Aug 27 00:44:34 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:44:34 -0600
Subject: grid-like control
In-Reply-To: <20040827042011.19E869300D1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD541852.256A%themacguy@macosx.com>

Why re-invent the wheel? This sounds just like the RB multi-column edit
field although you don't have an option for entering functions (and seeing
values). In RB you also have checkboxes that may be used for a column in
this object.

The RB implementation of this object is exactly what we need in Rev (IMHO).
However, to carry this thought experiment a bit further, perhaps a "hidden"
column could contain the formulae which would display its result in the
column to its right? Just a thought.

Barry

On 8/26/04 10:20 PM, Mark allegedly flung into the void:

> It's a reference to a possible library of duplicatable functions that
> would doc individual fields into columns and rows and size them
> properly based on border sizes for each row or column. It should also
> set line hight and font types and sizes. It should probably be done as
> an array or set of arrays and stored using a pull-parser in MTML. :-)
> There should also be global attributes for column formatting. All this
> should be like a spreadsheet layout processor. It should even handle
> the naming conventions for each field with names like r1c1, r2c1, r1c2,
> etc... It should even handle math attributes for running calculations
> from one field, ranges of fields into another field or fields. In other
> words it should be a stack that acts like a storable spreadsheet.
> Having object control over individual field objects could lead to
> extremely powerful acting spreadsheets.
> 
> Now there's a bit of work for the person that has nothing better to do.
> 
> Mark

--------------------------------------------------------
Barry Jay Levine
"The Mac Guy"

Macintosh & Windows Troubleshooting, System Engineering, Training,
Server Setup, System Upgrades and Enhancements,
Multi-platform Application Development
Backup Strategies and Implementations

On-Site service for K20, Business, Consumer

Phone/VoiceMail: 915-581-1105
            Fax: 915-581-8167
          eMail: themacguy at themacguy.info
--------------------------------------------------------



From JaysLists at triad.rr.com  Fri Aug 27 00:58:15 2004
From: JaysLists at triad.rr.com (Jay Madren)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 00:58:15 -0400
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <BD53FD0D.48C1%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIGHFGLCPMCDMJOHHOELNEAAA.JaysLists@triad.rr.com>

>> Need a way to easily select a range of choices from the drop-down lists
in
>> search.  On bugzilla I can do this by clicking on one entry then
>> shift-clicking on another to select all entries in between.  This is
useful
>> for, lets say, quickly selecting all versions except 2.5.
>
>Actually, if you select more than one thing from the same popup menu in
>Search (the ones under the separator line), the label will change to
>"Multiple" and you'll get multiple checkmarks next to them which will
>indicate that you can search on multiple items within a popup menu. Let me
>know if this will work for you; if not, let me know what you'd like to do
>instead (or in addition).

Yes, I know you can select multiple entries, but it's not a easy, quick way
to select a lot of entries.  In my example, to select all versions except
the 2.5 ones, you have to individually select the 18 non-2.5 choices from
the version popup.  I don't know of anyone who wants to sit there and do
that.

So what's needed is a feature like the one on bugzilla (which is really just
a feature of popups/dropdowns in web forms), where you can shift-click to
select a whole range of choices.  If that's not easy to do, then maybe a
checkbox or button to invert the selection, e.g., select the 2.5 choices,
then select invert which would "invert" or reverse the checkmarks on all
entries in that field.

Another feature which would also help alleviate this tedious
multiple-selection problem would be the ability to save search criteria.  So
then I could just call up a saved search, maybe modify it a little, and run
it.  Of course, this is a worthy feature on its own, no matter if you "fix"
the multiple selection problem or not.

Jay Madren


From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 27 01:51:58 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:51:58 -0400
Subject: Altuit releases MagicCarpet (finally!)
In-Reply-To: <412E65F6.2040905@chipp.com>
References: <412E65F6.2040905@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <35B75CFA-F7ED-11D8-9378-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 26, 2004, at 6:36 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Hey all, just thought I'd let you know we just released our latest 
> product- "MagicCarpet." It runs on both MacOSX and WinXP.

Chipp, this product looks really really great - and it resolves one of 
my next rants before it could even happen - team functionality is 
critical to me. So, all I can say is...     :-D
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From spiffsetz at mac.com  Fri Aug 27 01:53:11 2004
From: spiffsetz at mac.com (Steve and Lee Ann Setzer)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 23:53:11 -0600
Subject: Mac to Windows -- maybe text encoding
In-Reply-To: <20040826070619.E8B88930169@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD542867.5EBC%spiffsetz@mac.com>

Folks,

Jeanne's suggestion worked for the primary problem. I ran ISOToMac and all
my buttons now appear correctly.

However, part of my game logic compares the button name to text stored in a
field. So, I need to also get the text in the field back into Mac encoding
even when running on Windows. I tried the following script but it didn't
seem to change things:

repeat with countVar = 1 to the number of fields
     get field countVar
     put ISOToMac(it) into field countVar
end repeat

Is there something wrong with my script? If not, then is there any way to
get RunRev on Windows to use Mac-encoded text in a field, or will it always
automagically turn it to Windows encoding?

Steve Setzer
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:51:34 -0700
> From: "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <revolution at jaedworks.com>
> Subject: Re: Mac to Windows -- maybe text encoding
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <p061005e2bd5336367a79@[66.93.39.98]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> 
> At 11:08 PM -0600 8/25/2004, Steve and Lee Ann Setzer wrote:
>> (E) I do all my work on a Mac running OS X, but I have access to RunRev for
>> Windows and a decent Windows 2000 PC.
>> (F) The games involve buttons that have IPA characters in their names
>>  (Inspector-->Text Formatting-->Font-->IPAPhon Roman)
>> (G) When I move the stack to Windows, many of the button names show the
>> wrong character, either a rectangle or just a different letter/glyph.
> 
> Try the macToISO function:
> 
>  set the name of button 1 to macToISO(the name of button 1)
> 
> This function (and the companion function ISOToMac) converts between
> the Mac and Windows character sets. (Field text is converted
> automatically when you move between platforms, but object names
> aren't.)
> -- 
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> 
> ------------------------------


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Aug 27 02:36:44 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:36:44 -0500
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIGHFGLCPMCDMJOHHOELNEAAA.JaysLists@triad.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BD5440AC.48E4%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/26/04 11:58 PM, "Jay Madren" <JaysLists at triad.rr.com> wrote:

> Yes, I know you can select multiple entries, but it's not a easy, quick way
> to select a lot of entries.  In my example, to select all versions except
> the 2.5 ones, you have to individually select the 18 non-2.5 choices from
> the version popup.  I don't know of anyone who wants to sit there and do
> that.

Agreed.
 
> So what's needed is a feature like the one on bugzilla (which is really just
> a feature of popups/dropdowns in web forms), where you can shift-click to
> select a whole range of choices.  If that's not easy to do, then maybe a
> checkbox or button to invert the selection, e.g., select the 2.5 choices,
> then select invert which would "invert" or reverse the checkmarks on all
> entries in that field.

Let me think about that - how to best implement it. I'm leaning towards
something like option-click the popup and everything's selected - then
choose the items you want to remove from the popup.

> Another feature which would also help alleviate this tedious
> multiple-selection problem would be the ability to save search criteria.  So
> then I could just call up a saved search, maybe modify it a little, and run
> it.  Of course, this is a worthy feature on its own, no matter if you "fix"
> the multiple selection problem or not.

Nice suggestion! I'll add it to the feature list...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Aug 27 02:47:57 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 03:47:57 -0300
Subject: little homepage: a glimpse into libNetServices.
Message-ID: <07AD20D1-F7F5-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I am now in the process of making final documentation and code patches 
so I can release libNetServices. I made this new little homepage to 
show some pictures and talk a little about my new NCon stack, which 
stands for Network Console stack, it's like a distributed console where 
remote apps can send their log outputs. It's very handy when debugging 
three stacks running on different machines across a network for 
example... all your logs, there... if anyone is curious, just point 
your browser too:

http://homepage.mac.com/soapdog/rev/libNetServices.html

this will change... many things to add, like a full manual...

Cheers
andre
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Aug 27 02:50:14 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 03:50:14 -0300
Subject: Altuit releases MagicCarpet (finally!)
In-Reply-To: <35B75CFA-F7ED-11D8-9378-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <412E65F6.2040905@chipp.com>
	<35B75CFA-F7ED-11D8-9378-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <592676E2-F7F5-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>



>> Hey all, just thought I'd let you know we just released our latest 
>> product- "MagicCarpet." It runs on both MacOSX and WinXP.

I am using it since RMS... it rocks!!!! Now, when I look at CVS, it 
makes me sad.... :D

Thanks for the app!
andre

-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From tuviah at runrev.com  Fri Aug 27 03:07:27 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 03:07:27 -0400
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
References: <20040827042011.19E869300D1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <003201c48c04$8322cbb0$1602a8c0@athlon>

>1.  It would be cool if we could add comments to an existing bug.
This is essential to me, I cannot use revzilla until this is done. Also the
ability to mark the bug reopened/verified/or fix. If Revzilla can fix the
bug for me even better:-)

Tuviah


From tuviah at runrev.com  Fri Aug 27 03:10:41 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 03:10:41 -0400
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
References: <20040827042011.19E869300D1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <004001c48c04$f70982d0$1602a8c0@athlon>

>Try this: Make a button 128 pixels square. Give it a big icon (I used
>803). Then:

>set the margins of btn 1 to 40
>set the topmargin of btn 1 to 60
>set the textcolor of btn 1 to "blue"
>set the textstyle of btn 1 to "bold"
>set the textsize of btn 1 to 20

>On my Mac, I get a blue label over the picture (not behind it) and the
>icon is vertically centered (well, close. Play with the numbers.)
Seems that we need vertical alignment (verticalalignment, valignment
property) options (bottom, top, centered) which get applied regardless of
the image. This is the easiest way. We would also need to make
horizontalalignment, halignment do alignment does now.

Best,
Tuviah


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Aug 27 03:12:57 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 02:12:57 -0500
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <003201c48c04$8322cbb0$1602a8c0@athlon>
Message-ID: <BD544929.48F2%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/27/04 2:07 AM, "tuviah snyder" <tuviah at runrev.com> wrote:

>> 1.  It would be cool if we could add comments to an existing bug.
> This is essential to me, I cannot use revzilla until this is done.

That makes two votes for this feature...

> Also the
> ability to mark the bug reopened/verified/or fix.

I'll add that to the feature list. :-)

> If Revzilla can fix the
> bug for me even better:-)

I'm good, but I'm not THAT good!

;-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From moe2 at shaw.ca  Fri Aug 27 02:51:19 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 23:51:19 -0700
Subject: Link to an Educational Stack
In-Reply-To: <F562DF22-F7C4-11D8-B4EE-000A959B61BE@cox.net>
Message-ID: <BD5427F7.73FE%moe2@shaw.ca>


hi Mark

impressive

how do you create the graphic on first card?

moe

> Alejandro Tejada has been kind enough to help me post one of my
> educational stacks on his server space:
> http://69.73.172.57/~jalejand/MG_01.zip
> 
> Mark Greenberg
> English Teacher


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Aug 27 03:46:32 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 02:46:32 -0500
Subject: Altuit releases MagicCarpet (finally!)
In-Reply-To: <592676E2-F7F5-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <412E65F6.2040905@chipp.com>
	<35B75CFA-F7ED-11D8-9378-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<592676E2-F7F5-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <412EE6D8.4090204@chipp.com>

Andre,

A number of users have already asked me how to use MagicCarpet locally 
on their own computer. I've setup a video demo using an existing FTP 
server on XP (Don't know how to setup the FTP on MacOSX yet, but am 
learning!)

It would be really cool if MagicCarpet could utilize the FTP part of 
libNetServices. Check out the video "Install a local FTP server on your 
WinXP PC" at (no audio) to see how to configure your FTP server:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpet/VideoClassroom.htm

Also, for those of you still reading, I've installed an 'auto-open' 
stack for users of the MagicCarpet plugin. Just be sure and use 
altPluginToolbar and open the PREFS and 'checkForUpdates.'

The standalone app will auto-update itself. Now, I need to go back to 
putting the final touches on the Mac altBrowser (which I would like to 
solicit a couple beta testers!). It's pretty much done, I just need to 
build a great demo stack and website for it!

best,

Chipp

Andre Garzia wrote:

> I am using it since RMS... it rocks!!!! Now, when I look at CVS, it 
> makes me sad.... :D
> 
> Thanks for the app!
> andre
> 


From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Aug 27 03:59:30 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 04:59:30 -0300
Subject: Altuit releases MagicCarpet (finally!)
In-Reply-To: <412EE6D8.4090204@chipp.com>
References: <412E65F6.2040905@chipp.com>
	<35B75CFA-F7ED-11D8-9378-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<592676E2-F7F5-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com> <412EE6D8.4090204@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <06AAC0E6-F7FF-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>


Chipp,

give me till monday and you'll have a FTP that can accept uploads...
To setup a FTP on MacOS X, just launch the "system preferences" click 
on sharing and select "file sharing" it will launch the FTP server... 
it's just three clicks away from you.
I'll try to use MagicCarpet with the FTPd on libNetServices, as soon as 
it is working, I'll send you a stack....

Cheers
andre



On Aug 27, 2004, at 4:46 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Andre,
>
> A number of users have already asked me how to use MagicCarpet locally 
> on their own computer. I've setup a video demo using an existing FTP 
> server on XP (Don't know how to setup the FTP on MacOSX yet, but am 
> learning!)
>
> It would be really cool if MagicCarpet could utilize the FTP part of 
> libNetServices. Check out the video "Install a local FTP server on 
> your WinXP PC" at (no audio) to see how to configure your FTP server:
>
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpet/VideoClassroom.htm
>
> Also, for those of you still reading, I've installed an 'auto-open' 
> stack for users of the MagicCarpet plugin. Just be sure and use 
> altPluginToolbar and open the PREFS and 'checkForUpdates.'
>
> The standalone app will auto-update itself. Now, I need to go back to 
> putting the final touches on the Mac altBrowser (which I would like to 
> solicit a couple beta testers!). It's pretty much done, I just need to 
> build a great demo stack and website for it!
>
> best,
>
> Chipp
>
> Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>> I am using it since RMS... it rocks!!!! Now, when I look at CVS, it 
>> makes me sad.... :D
>> Thanks for the app!
>> andre
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Fri Aug 27 04:07:22 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:07:22 +0200
Subject: anyone here would use simple httpd or ftpd code?
In-Reply-To: <3407B5EE-F785-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <BBF351E8-F779-11D8-B7C7-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
 <3407B5EE-F785-11D8-A268-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a06110437bd549c16e766@[141.89.100.235]>

>On Aug 26, 2004, at 1:05 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:
>
>>I was going to begin working of FTP Upload from my standalone apps 
>>on user's own machines.
>>
>>Mark
>>
>
>Mark,
>
>when you say upload, you're talking about what point of view, the 
>server or the client, we have built-in functions in Rev to make 
>uploads to a given server, the missing part of FTPd is to accept 
>uploads from a client (it's easy, I just don't have the time to doit)
>
>cheers

Being able to accept uploads (through ftp or http) would be the most 
welcome feature for me.

robert

From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Fri Aug 27 04:45:29 2004
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:45:29 -0700
Subject: writing an OS X package from a custom property
Message-ID: <73236406-F805-11D8-835D-000A95AFF636@elementarysoftware.com>

Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
> An alternative method to solving this problem would be to use array 
> notation (custom property set ?) to read in and store each individual 
> file in the bundle, rather than try to read it as a whole.  Bear in 
> mind that this would mean recreating the bundle's internal structure 
> -- directories and all -- when spitting it back out later on.

Ha! I did this last night... er, well I almost did It.  I got a package 
that looked right to me but it didn't work when I tried to run the 
AppleScript.  Perhaps with more fiddling...

> If you are distributing a standalone for OS X, it might be easier to 
> simply copy the needed bundle into the resources folder of your 
> standalone app bundle, then copy it back out when it needs to be 
> installed.

Well that is a fine idea!  Both simple and quick.  Worked like a charm! 
  Thanks.
-Scott Morrow
Elementary Software

From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 27 05:21:28 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 02:21:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Link to an Educational Stack
In-Reply-To: <20040827042011.19E869300D1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040827092128.30911.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>

on Thu, 26 Aug 2004
Mark Greenberg wrote:

> I also have stacks written in
> HyperStudio if anyone is 
> interested in those.

Of course!! There are teachers in this list
that will be very interested.

Could you include links to HyperStudio players
for Windows and Mac?

> The New York Times featured me and this teaching
> approach in the 
> Circuit section last Thursday (front page).  That's
> me in the picture.

This is the direction for this article. You need to
make an account with the NYT to read the article.

<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/19/technology/circuits/19teac.html>

The article mentioned that you had created
dozens of games: a role-playing card game called 
Magic: The Gathering that requires students to "dress"
historical figures with qualities that best fit their
names, a multimedia quiz on comma placement or the 
multiplication of polynomials, fill in blank speech 
balloons from Calvin and Hobbes comic strips and
Jeopardy-like games to train students for the Academic
Decathlon, a student contest.

Will you upload these games too? ;-)

Internet access in the classroom has become a
mixed blessing.

In the lab, i asked for a master switch to turn off
the internet access. Chat has become a big time sink
in the classroom!

Keep up your good work, Mark! :-)

al

PS: By the way, Did someone else notice the way that 
this message become merged with next mail in the
digest? This has happen before. Where is the problem?

> The New York Times featured me and this teaching
> approach in the 
> Circuit section last Thursday (front page).  That's
> me in the picture.From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Aug
> 26 21:11:50 2004
> Return-Path: <troy at rpsystems.net>
> Delivered-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Received: from mail1.atl.registeredsite.com


=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug 27 07:12:05 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:12:05 +0200
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032 + 819
In-Reply-To: <412E40AD.50605@comcast.net>
References: <62F41648-F787-11D8-8C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<412E40AD.50605@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <EDFCC0E8-F819-11D8-BF8B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi RunRev team,

could you please give a (short, i know you are always in a hurry ;-)
hint on how we should understand your comments on these 2 entries?

> ########## start 819 #########
>     ------- Additional Comment
>       #1 From
>       Tuviah Snyder
>       2004-03-28 20:42 -------
>
> OK anyone have any problem with me changing this for 2.2?

This one suggests that this might go into 2.2, which hasn't...

> Only thing I can see this breaking is people who already obscure text 
> using an image.
> ############ end 819 ##########
>
>> ############1032#############
>> 2003-12-05:
>> To be able to position the label-text of buttons directly on top of 
>> their icons.
>> This way we wouldn't need so many workaround to make this happen ;-)
>> Thank you...
>> Klaus Major
>> ----------
>> Posted by RevZilla 1.1
>> ------- Additional Comment  #1 From  Mark  2004-03-21 04:19 -------
>> Something like changing the textHeight of a button?
>>  ------- Additional Comment  #2 From  Klaus Major  2004-03-21 06:20 
>> -------
>> ##Something like changing the textHeight of a button?
>> I have no idea...
>> But as long this will position the label on top of the icon, its OK 
>> ;-)
>> Regards
>> Klaus Major
>>  ------- Additional Comment  #3 From  Kevin Miller  2004-04-29 18:53 
>> -------
>> This is now included in the shipping version 2.2.  Thanks for the 
>> request.

This is either not true or absolutely well hidden :-)


If you really mean struggling with the margins is the solution then i 
cannot take
your answer too serious...

Anyway, all i want is a clear answer :-)

Thanks in advance.


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Fri Aug 27 07:36:03 2004
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:36:03 +0200
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040827132231.01e59440@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:03:56 -0500, Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

>On 8/26/04 8:21 PM, "Bill" <bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote:
>
> > Please fix it so that the update function which loads the pop-up buttons
> > always works. I can't use Revzilla anymore to post a bug because it 
> will say
> > "Retreving data from Bugzilla" but never load it into the pop-up buttons.
> >  Version 1.1.2
>
>This is probably because you haven't logged into *Bugzilla* in a while.
>Unfortunately, the cookies expire and I don't know how to log into Bugzilla
>from RevZilla, so if you don't have working popup menus, go to Options and
>click "Login to Bugzilla" and log in using your web browser. The next time
>you run RevZilla (assuming it hasn't been weeks), the popups should refresh.

Ken, I just tried this and it didn't work for me straight away: I mean I 
logged on to Bugzilla, searched for something to check it was all working, 
quit MSIE, quit Revolution, reloaded Revolution, reloaded the Revzilla 
plugin; and there were still no items in the 'Post a Bug' tab's pop-up 
buttons. It was only after I checked that Revzilla  'knows' me by searching 
for my own bugs that the 'Post a Bug' tab came back. Just so you know. 
Windows XP Home Edition BTW.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:42:02 -0700, Mark Talluto 
<userev at canelasoftware.com> wrote:

>1.  It would be cool if we could add comments to an existing bug.
>2.  Would also be useful if we could resize the main window.  Sometimes
>I find myself using the horizontal slider way too much.

I strongly agree with these. I find the way of adding comments in Bugzilla 
itself strangely hard to do, and anyway I'd **far** rather use Revzilla!

Graham



---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 27 09:07:09 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:07:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <004001c48c04$f70982d0$1602a8c0@athlon>
Message-ID: <20040827130709.58247.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>

--- tuviah snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> wrote:
> >Try this: Make a button 128 pixels square. Give it
> a big icon (I used
> >803). Then:
> 
> >set the margins of btn 1 to 40
> >set the topmargin of btn 1 to 60
> >set the textcolor of btn 1 to "blue"
> >set the textstyle of btn 1 to "bold"
> >set the textsize of btn 1 to 20
> 
> >On my Mac, I get a blue label over the picture (not
> behind it) and the
> >icon is vertically centered (well, close. Play with
> the numbers.)
> Seems that we need vertical alignment
> (verticalalignment, valignment
> property) options (bottom, top, centered) which get
> applied regardless of
> the image. This is the easiest way. We would also
> need to make
> horizontalalignment, halignment do alignment does
> now.
> 
> Best,
> Tuviah
> 

This sounds really useful for fields as well ;
especially for those who are using them as cells for
substitute table controls.

I suggest as default values for buttons :
- vAlign is "bottom"
- hAlign is "center"
And as default values for fields :
- vAlign is "top"
- hAlign is "left"

That way things are as they have always been.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
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From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Fri Aug 27 09:33:32 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:33:32 -0400
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <20040827130709.58247.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040827130709.58247.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B06E9ED6-F82D-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Not true.  By default, the text for buttons is centered unless an icon 
is present, in which case the text is immediately below the icon, and 
they are sort of centered together in the button.  This default would 
call for an additional alignment option.  You would not really need a 
new option for horizontal alignment, would you?  Isn't that working 
already?  A vertical alignment option would be sufficient, perhaps with 
options like "top", "bottom", "center", "belowIcon", and "aboveIcon" -- 
where "belowIcon" (the default) and "aboveIcon" would be equivalent to 
"center" when no icon is present?

On Aug 27, 2004, at 9:07 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

>
> I suggest as default values for buttons :
> - vAlign is "bottom"
> - hAlign is "center"
> And as default values for fields :
> - vAlign is "top"
> - hAlign is "left"
>



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From frank at backtalk.com  Fri Aug 27 09:47:41 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:47:41 +0100
Subject: Reading UTF-8 files?
Message-ID: <AA782D00-F82F-11D8-8BEE-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Does anyone know if there's a way to read UTF-8 files?  The docs 
suggest not (only UTF-16).

If not, then my app won't be able to read iPhoto albums with high-byte 
characters in the album title, such as umlauts, ?.  Ugh...

Does anyone know if this is expected to be fixed in 2.5?

Thanks,
-- Frank


Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 27 09:56:52 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:56:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <B06E9ED6-F82D-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <20040827135652.51998.qmail@web60506.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Frank D. Engel, Jr." <fde101 at fjrhome.net> wrote:
> Not true.  By default, the text for buttons is
> centered unless an icon 
> is present, in which case the text is immediately
> below the icon, and 
> they are sort of centered together in the button. 
> This default would 
> call for an additional alignment option.  You would
> not really need a 
> new option for horizontal alignment, would you? 
> Isn't that working 
> already?  A vertical alignment option would be
> sufficient, perhaps with 
> options like "top", "bottom", "center", "belowIcon",
> and "aboveIcon" -- 
> where "belowIcon" (the default) and "aboveIcon"
> would be equivalent to 
> "center" when no icon is present?
> 

You're right : horizontal alignment is already working
properly, and I was merely echoing Tuviah's idea of
adding vertical alignment and some synonyms for the
current (horizontal) textAlign property.
And you do have a couple of neat proposals for the
vertical text alignment ; though for clarity, I'd
replace "center" with "middle" for this property.
Will you bugzilla these and let us know the number so
we can vote for it ?

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From tuviah at runrev.com  Fri Aug 27 10:10:32 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:10:32 -0400
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032 + 819
References: <20040827133059.1936E930121@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <006201c48c3f$9dacc3b0$1602a8c0@athlon>

>This is either not true or absolutely well hidden :-)


>If you really mean struggling with the margins is the solution then i
>cannot take
>your answer too serious...
The drawing order was changed so that you can draw text on top of icons. The
other issue (not struggling with margins) is a design issue and needs to be
discussed and resolved before being implemented.

Best,
Tuviah


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Fri Aug 27 10:18:33 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:18:33 -0400
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
Message-ID: <OFA2D79C12.73F3EAA6-ON85256EFD.004CF599@sealedair.com>

> And you do have a couple of neat proposals for the
> vertical text alignment ; though for clarity, I'd
> replace "center" with "middle" for this property.
> Will you bugzilla these and let us know the number so
> we can vote for it ?
> 
> Jan Schenkel.

"middle"???? I have --never-- seen "middle" used as a centering term in 
modern software products. It would be confusing to me to have to use 
"center" for some things, and "middle" for others in Transcript. Could it 
not be done in an even simpler way? For example, by default text is 
centered at the bottom of a button when an icon is present. Could their 
not be a property that is either true of false for text over an icon? 
Like...

set the textOverlay of btn 1 to true  -- Text ON TOP OF the icon

set the textOverlay of btn 1 to false -- Text at bottom of the button

In either case, the text would be horizontally centered. If more control 
is desired beyond overlaying the button text, then yes the previous 
suggestions regarding allignment would provide a more versitile solution. 
Sometimes, simplicity is best though IMHO.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 27 10:32:42 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 07:32:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032
In-Reply-To: <OFA2D79C12.73F3EAA6-ON85256EFD.004CF599@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <20040827143242.11784.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
> > And you do have a couple of neat proposals for the
> > vertical text alignment ; though for clarity, I'd
> > replace "center" with "middle" for this property.
> > Will you bugzilla these and let us know the number
> so
> > we can vote for it ?
> > 
> > Jan Schenkel.
> 
> "middle"???? I have --never-- seen "middle" used as
> a centering term in 
> modern software products. It would be confusing to
> me to have to use 
> "center" for some things, and "middle" for others in
> Transcript.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>
> 

Hi Roger,

In HTML tables, you can use the following vertical
alignments : top, middle, bottom -- I guess this makes
it easier to distinguish between vertical and
horizontal alignments (left, center, right).
That being said, I like simplicity too, but you have
to admit it would be neat to set the vertical
alignment of a button to control where the icon and
text end up.
If for some reason, you want the icon and the text to
be right-aligned, with the text above the icon, it
would be as simple as :
- hALign = "right"
- vAlign = "aboveIcon"

Hope this clarifies my view,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
_______________________________
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Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
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From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Fri Aug 27 10:35:07 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:35:07 -0400
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032 -> 2081
In-Reply-To: <OFA2D79C12.73F3EAA6-ON85256EFD.004CF599@sealedair.com>
References: <OFA2D79C12.73F3EAA6-ON85256EFD.004CF599@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <4AA0A69C-F836-11D8-A5CA-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

The new bug number is 2081,

I stuck with "center" as the suggested item, and added "obscure" 
vertical alignment as an equivalent to "center", only with the icon 
over top of the text.

On Aug 27, 2004, at 10:18 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

>> And you do have a couple of neat proposals for the
>> vertical text alignment ; though for clarity, I'd
>> replace "center" with "middle" for this property.
>> Will you bugzilla these and let us know the number so
>> we can vote for it ?
>>
>> Jan Schenkel.
>
> "middle"???? I have --never-- seen "middle" used as a centering term in
> modern software products. It would be confusing to me to have to use
> "center" for some things, and "middle" for others in Transcript. Could 
> it
> not be done in an even simpler way? For example, by default text is
> centered at the bottom of a button when an icon is present. Could their
> not be a property that is either true of false for text over an icon?
> Like...
>
> set the textOverlay of btn 1 to true  -- Text ON TOP OF the icon
>
> set the textOverlay of btn 1 to false -- Text at bottom of the button
>
> In either case, the text would be horizontally centered. If more 
> control
> is desired beyond overlaying the button text, then yes the previous
> suggestions regarding allignment would provide a more versitile 
> solution.
> Sometimes, simplicity is best though IMHO.
>
> Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



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From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 27 10:45:28 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 07:45:28 -0700
Subject: anyone here would use simple httpd or ftpd code?
In-Reply-To: <a06110437bd549c16e766@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <BD30C9F7-F837-11D8-9089-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Friday, August 27, 2004, at 01:07 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

> Being able to accept uploads (through ftp or http) would be the most 
> welcome feature for me.
>
> robert

I know little or next to nothing about this topic. I know how to use 
Fetch. OK, so I'm a dumbBo, big deal. I'm also in need of trying to 
send a randomly named 1kb text file to an anonymous FTP upload  folder 
from a commercially sold standalone app. I want to use this same 
anonymous FTP upload folder to have a product fulfillment app running 
from my place of business batch process these files, remove them from 
the upload folder, and send out reciprocal unlock keys for feature 
upgrades.

My biggest problem was finding a server that still uses or makes 
available these anonymous FTP upload folders. Turns out you can host 
your own remote servers at ServerBeach.com with 2000 gig transfer rate 
per month. So now I'm off to learn all about that. This was my answer 
to having my commercial apps e-mail me with the user's own e-mail 
client.

I believe that Rev already has native functions to handle these 
anonymous folder FTP uploads. This was the only way I could figure out 
how to get a text file from anywhere in the world to a single location 
that I could use another app to make use of through automation.  I 
imagine that there is a CGI method using the post function but I would 
need that FTP folder for other needs anyway so I just decided to use 
that FTP approach.

Mark


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Aug 27 11:28:51 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:28:51 +0200
Subject: Bugzilla nr. 1032 + 819
In-Reply-To: <006201c48c3f$9dacc3b0$1602a8c0@athlon>
References: <20040827133059.1936E930121@mail.runrev.com>
	<006201c48c3f$9dacc3b0$1602a8c0@athlon>
Message-ID: <CC4C6C72-F83D-11D8-BF8B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Tuviah,

>> This is either not true or absolutely well hidden :-)
>
>> If you really mean struggling with the margins is the solution then i
>> cannot take your answer too serious...
> The drawing order was changed so that you can draw text on top of 
> icons. The
> other issue (not struggling with margins) is a design issue and needs 
> to be
> discussed and resolved before being implemented.

Well this is a clear answer, although not exactly to my question ;-)

Now if my analysis is correct this means:
1. This feature is not included in v. 2.2
2. Dealing with the margins is not what Mr. Miller meant

Thank you :-)

> Best,
> Tuviah

Best from germany

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Fri Aug 27 11:59:21 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:59:21 +0200
Subject: [ANN] Kartolina Photo -Total rewrite
Message-ID: <p06110415bd5507640be3@[10.0.1.2]>

I have rewritten my app Kartolina Photo and have included many new features.
This beta is Mac OS X only - other versions will follow.

I am looking for feedback on all the tiny little bugs I have surely 
left in it  ;-)
plus any problems people might have understanding the interface or 
functionality.

*********  Send feedback to:  sims at ezpzapps.com  ***********

This app will:
make custom cards using your photo or image
add text to your photo or image
import images from the web and then manipulate that image
add arrows and text field for explaining parts of images (weather, 
space, satellite, etc.)

The new app features:
multiple fields
album manager for favorite folders of images
web images
scale to 300%
crop & save
and a few other things.


Download the beta at: 
http://ezpzapps.com/kartolina/Kartolina_Photo_3_b4.1.sit

( Information about the old version is at:   http://EZPZapps.com/kartolina )
Thanks

Oh!  Did I mention the European Rev Conference to be held in November???
  http://TechieTours.com/Rev

sims

From revlist at cableone.net  Fri Aug 27 12:09:19 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:09:19 -0600
Subject: 2.5b2 engines
Message-ID: <000a01c48c50$35f53070$64fea8c0@chris1>

Is there anywhere I can go to download additional engines for 2.5b2?  I want
to try building standalones for multiple platforms, but I keep getting
download errors when Rev tries to download the additional engines.  So can
they be downloaded manually somewhere?

Thanks,

Chris Sheffield
Software Developer
Read Naturally



---
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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Aug 27 12:10:55 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:10:55 -0500
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040827132231.01e59440@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BD54C73F.493E%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/27/04 6:36 AM, "Graham Samuel" <graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr> wrote:

> Ken, I just tried this and it didn't work for me straight away: I mean I
> logged on to Bugzilla, searched for something to check it was all working,
> quit MSIE, quit Revolution, reloaded Revolution, reloaded the Revzilla
> plugin; and there were still no items in the 'Post a Bug' tab's pop-up
> buttons. It was only after I checked that Revzilla  'knows' me by searching
> for my own bugs that the 'Post a Bug' tab came back. Just so you know.
> Windows XP Home Edition BTW.

Thanks, Graham. I'll check it out and see how I can make this easier/more
reliable.

>> 1.  It would be cool if we could add comments to an existing bug.
>> 2.  Would also be useful if we could resize the main window.  Sometimes
>> I find myself using the horizontal slider way too much.
> 
> I strongly agree with these. I find the way of adding comments in Bugzilla
> itself strangely hard to do, and anyway I'd **far** rather use Revzilla!

I'll add your votes, thanks!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Fri Aug 27 12:22:40 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:22:40 -0400
Subject: Printing records from the database
In-Reply-To: <BD5412A0.48CD%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <5108972B-F845-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

>>
>
> Revolution allows you to build printable areas as large or as small as 
> you
> like, so you'd just have to design a card so that it wasn't too large 
> for
> your paper. (This may have to be done by trial and error a couple of 
> times,
> but then it will work properly from that point on.)

Hi Ken,
I need to print statements. I understand  I need to set up a card as a 
template and then put in the info via SQL(from my PostgreSQL db) each 
statement for a different customer. How would be the best way to do 
that, that I should have them all in one print ? The amount of 
statement amount varies .
Thanks, Hershel

> Hope that helps,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Fri Aug 27 12:24:51 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:24:51 -0400
Subject: need advise on grid like control...
In-Reply-To: <B23A0594-F7E0-11D8-BAB0-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9EEB8BEE-F845-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

>
> It's a reference to a possible library of duplicatable functions that 
> would doc individual fields into columns and rows and size them 
> properly based on border sizes for each row or column. It should also 
> set line hight and font types and sizes. It should probably be done as 
> an array or set of arrays and stored using a pull-parser in MTML. :-) 
> There should also be global attributes for column formatting. All this 
> should be like a spreadsheet layout processor. It should even handle 
> the naming conventions for each field with names like r1c1, r2c1, 
> r1c2, etc... It should even handle math attributes for running 
> calculations from one field, ranges of fields into another field or 
> fields. In other words it should be a stack that acts like a storable 
> spreadsheet. Having object control over individual field objects could 
> lead to extremely powerful acting spreadsheets.
>
> Now there's a bit of work for the person that has nothing better to do.
Got that.
Thanks
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Aug 27 14:23:00 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:23:00 -0500
Subject: 2.5b2 engines
In-Reply-To: <000a01c48c50$35f53070$64fea8c0@chris1>
References: <000a01c48c50$35f53070$64fea8c0@chris1>
Message-ID: <412F7C04.1040106@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/27/04 11:09 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote:

> Is there anywhere I can go to download additional engines for 2.5b2?  I want
> to try building standalones for multiple platforms, but I keep getting
> download errors when Rev tries to download the additional engines.  So can
> they be downloaded manually somewhere?

Yup: <http://www.runrev.com/downloads/engines/2.5B2/>

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From revlist at cableone.net  Fri Aug 27 14:56:51 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:56:51 -0600
Subject: 2.5b2 engines
In-Reply-To: <412F7C04.1040106@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <001201c48c67$9d5526a0$64fea8c0@chris1>

Thanks, Jacque.  Couldn't find it. :-)

Chris Sheffield
Software Developer
Read Naturally


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 12:23 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: 2.5b2 engines
> 
> On 8/27/04 11:09 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote:
> 
> > Is there anywhere I can go to download additional engines for 2.5b2?  I
> want
> > to try building standalones for multiple platforms, but I keep getting
> > download errors when Rev tries to download the additional engines.  So
> can
> > they be downloaded manually somewhere?
> 
> Yup: <http://www.runrev.com/downloads/engines/2.5B2/>
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
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From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Fri Aug 27 16:27:29 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 06:27:29 +1000
Subject: Sockets
Message-ID: <012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>

Hi,

I am looking for a sample runtime revolution stack that has the following
elements

1. Address Text Box
2. Port Text Box
3. Command Text Box
4. Send Button
5. Response Text Box

eg Address = 192.168.100.63, Port = 4563 Command = MYOBContacts -> Send ->
Receive a long list of MYOBContacts.

I already have this working with REALbasic and our graphic designer desires
to use Runtime Revolution for the gui.

Any pointers?

Thanks

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Fri Aug 27 16:36:23 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:36:23 -0400
Subject: Launch with non-file argument(s)
Message-ID: <C2DDB0DE-F868-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Any way to launch an app with an argument which is *not* a filename, 
and not block?

I can get this to work with the shell function, except that it is 
blocking (the stack stalls until the other app quits), which is not 
acceptable.

I tried to get this to work with the launch statement, except that it 
complains that the document does not exist.

I need this to work cross-platform (I could, of course, have separate 
cases for different platforms -- that doesn't bother me if it works;  
It looks like "start" might be used under Windows?  What about OS X and 
*NIX?).



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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Aug 27 17:07:32 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:07:32 -0500
Subject: Launch with non-file argument(s)
In-Reply-To: <C2DDB0DE-F868-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <BD550CC4.4978%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/27/04 3:36 PM, "Frank D. Engel, Jr." <fde101 at fjrhome.net> wrote:

> Any way to launch an app with an argument which is *not* a filename,
> and not block?
> 
> I can get this to work with the shell function, except that it is
> blocking (the stack stalls until the other app quits), which is not
> acceptable.

Did you try "open process for neither"? I believe these are non-blocking...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From xslaugh at gmail.com  Fri Aug 27 17:15:50 2004
From: xslaugh at gmail.com (Scott Slaugh)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:15:50 -0600
Subject: Sockets
In-Reply-To: <012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
References: <012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
Message-ID: <f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com>

I have a stack that I have made that provides a library for working
with sockets in Revolution, as well as a front end for the library. 
I'll upload it to revOnline tonight, and you can see if it does what
you need.

Scott Slaugh

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 06:27:29 +1000, Keith Hutchison
<keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am looking for a sample runtime revolution stack that has the following
> elements
> 
> 1. Address Text Box
> 2. Port Text Box
> 3. Command Text Box
> 4. Send Button
> 5. Response Text Box
> 
> eg Address = 192.168.100.63, Port = 4563 Command = MYOBContacts -> Send ->
> Receive a long list of MYOBContacts.
> 
> I already have this working with REALbasic and our graphic designer desires
> to use Runtime Revolution for the gui.
> 
> Any pointers?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Keith Hutchison
> Balance-Infosystems.Com
> 
> postgresql - mysql - dbf
> Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
> http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Fri Aug 27 17:15:08 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 07:15:08 +1000
Subject: Sockets
References: <012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <018a01c48c7a$ee09e0a0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>

Hi Scott,

> I have a stack that I have made that provides a library for working
> with sockets in Revolution, as well as a front end for the library. 
> I'll upload it to revOnline tonight, and you can see if it does what
> you need.

Thanks

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf 
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org

From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Fri Aug 27 17:17:55 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:17:55 -0400
Subject: Launch with non-file argument(s)
In-Reply-To: <BD550CC4.4978%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD550CC4.4978%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <901AE57A-F86E-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

How can I pass parameters with that?

On Aug 27, 2004, at 5:07 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 8/27/04 3:36 PM, "Frank D. Engel, Jr." <fde101 at fjrhome.net> wrote:
>
>> Any way to launch an app with an argument which is *not* a filename,
>> and not block?
>>
>> I can get this to work with the shell function, except that it is
>> blocking (the stack stalls until the other app quits), which is not
>> acceptable.
>
> Did you try "open process for neither"? I believe these are 
> non-blocking...
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



___________________________________________________________
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From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Aug 27 17:28:25 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:28:25 -0700
Subject: Arrows nudge or not?
In-Reply-To: <ED740B3E-F7AE-11D8-B419-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
References: <ED740B3E-F7AE-11D8-B419-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <07B59642-F870-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

My guess is that this is an IDE feature. How do you give your users a 
pointer tool that lets them select objects in a standalone anyway? 
(Every day I learn something new about this amazing tool.)


On Aug 26, 2004, at 3:26 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:

> Should the arrows nudge controls when they are selected with the 
> pointer tool in standalones as they do in the IDE?  Is this an IDE 
> feature or something in the engine?
>
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Mark Talluto
> http://www.canelasoftware.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From xslaugh at gmail.com  Fri Aug 27 17:30:37 2004
From: xslaugh at gmail.com (Scott Slaugh)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:30:37 -0600
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <BD54C73F.493E%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD54C73F.493E%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <f23bc2d70408271430572ae240@mail.gmail.com>

  One thing that I've wanted to see in RevZilla is visual feedback on
the button on the various pages that will take you to BugZilla's page
on that bug.  Right now, if I click it, nothing happens.  I then wait
a few seconds for my web browser to come up before I know for sure
that it was actually clicked.  It would be wonderful if the button had
a hilited state so that I could see when I hold the mouse down on it.
  The other feature I would like to see added is support for Firefox in Windows.

Scott Slaugh

From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 27 17:30:40 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:30:40 -0400
Subject: Arrows nudge or not?
In-Reply-To: <07B59642-F870-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <ED740B3E-F7AE-11D8-B419-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
	<07B59642-F870-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <5834AAFC-F870-11D8-91CB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 27, 2004, at 5:28 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> My guess is that this is an IDE feature. How do you give your users a 
> pointer tool that lets them select objects in a standalone anyway? 
> (Every day I learn something new about this amazing tool.)

Dan, the surprising part is that pretty much ALL the tools can be 
provided to the end-user - take a look at "choose tool".
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Aug 27 17:33:21 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:33:21 -0700
Subject: dial
In-Reply-To: <FBBC1371-F6D8-11D8-B1F0-0003937E4820@wanadoo.fr>
References: <FBBC1371-F6D8-11D8-B1F0-0003937E4820@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <B845E646-F870-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

There could be a lot of reasons the dial command isn't supported in 
Revolution. I have not tried to use the alternative approaches, but 
what looks potentially promising for what you want to do is the write 
to file command with modem as the file identifier. This is documented 
and may do what you want.


On Aug 25, 2004, at 1:54 PM, doupsy at wanadoo.fr wrote:

> Hello,
>
> With Hypercard, it was very very simple to dial a phone number ( dial 
> "05 02 00 00 00 for ex" with modem ).
> Only you click  with one hand on a button to dial and with other hand 
> you take your t?l?phone to your ear.
>
> Why it is impossible to dial with Revolution ?
> (I am under OS X)
>
> I try :
>
> close driver "/dev/cu.modem"
> open driver "/dev/cu.modem"
> write "ATDT"&PhoneNumber&CR to  driver "/dev/cu.modem"
> read from driver "/dev/cu.modem" until eof
> (write "ATH"&cr to driver "/dev/cu.modem"
> read from driver "/dev/cu.modem" until eof)
>
> With Revolution you must think when you must click on the button to 
> dial, when you must lift the receiver, when you must hang up, etc....
> And most often, the application crash.
>
> Could you help me, or not ?
>
> I am not an informatician.
>
> Thanks
>
> Edouard
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Fri Aug 27 17:37:23 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:37:23 -0400
Subject: dial
In-Reply-To: <B845E646-F870-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <FBBC1371-F6D8-11D8-B1F0-0003937E4820@wanadoo.fr>
	<B845E646-F870-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <483F1A71-F871-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

write to driver, maybe?

On Aug 27, 2004, at 5:33 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> There could be a lot of reasons the dial command isn't supported in 
> Revolution. I have not tried to use the alternative approaches, but 
> what looks potentially promising for what you want to do is the write 
> to file command with modem as the file identifier. This is documented 
> and may do what you want.
>
>
> On Aug 25, 2004, at 1:54 PM, doupsy at wanadoo.fr wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> With Hypercard, it was very very simple to dial a phone number ( dial 
>> "05 02 00 00 00 for ex" with modem ).
>> Only you click  with one hand on a button to dial and with other hand 
>> you take your t?l?phone to your ear.
>>
>> Why it is impossible to dial with Revolution ?
>> (I am under OS X)
>>
>> I try :
>>
>> close driver "/dev/cu.modem"
>> open driver "/dev/cu.modem"
>> write "ATDT"&PhoneNumber&CR to  driver "/dev/cu.modem"
>> read from driver "/dev/cu.modem" until eof
>> (write "ATH"&cr to driver "/dev/cu.modem"
>> read from driver "/dev/cu.modem" until eof)
>>
>> With Revolution you must think when you must click on the button to 
>> dial, when you must lift the receiver, when you must hang up, etc....
>> And most often, the application crash.
>>
>> Could you help me, or not ?
>>
>> I am not an informatician.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Edouard
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
> Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
> Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



___________________________________________________________
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From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Fri Aug 27 17:35:54 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 07:35:54 +1000
Subject: Sockets
References: <012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>

Does the following code look correct?

set TheResult to open socket "127.0.0.1:4563" with message "MYOBContacts"
set the contents of ResultField to TheResult

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf 
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org
 

From userev at canelasoftware.com  Fri Aug 27 17:45:07 2004
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:45:07 -0700
Subject: Arrows nudge or not?
In-Reply-To: <07B59642-F870-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <ED740B3E-F7AE-11D8-B419-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
	<07B59642-F870-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <5CCBE2A6-F872-11D8-ABA5-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

On Aug 27, 2004, at 2:28 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> My guess is that this is an IDE feature. How do you give your users a 
> pointer tool that lets them select objects in a standalone anyway? 
> (Every day I learn something new about this amazing tool.)
>
>
> On Aug 26, 2004, at 3:26 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:
>
>> Should the arrows nudge controls when they are selected with the 
>> pointer tool in standalones as they do in the IDE?  Is this an IDE 
>> feature or something in the engine?
>>

Thanks for your reply.  I was hoping that I was missing something.  
Guess I will need to program that in myself.
I have a page layout teacher tool that has a tool bar.  You click on 
the arrow tool and it chooses the pointer tool.  From there your users 
are in that mode.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 27 17:51:59 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:51:59 -0400
Subject: Sockets
In-Reply-To: <01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
References: <012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com>
	<01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
Message-ID: <522B85E4-F873-11D8-91CB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 27, 2004, at 5:35 PM, Keith Hutchison wrote:

> Does the following code look correct?
>
> set TheResult to open socket "127.0.0.1:4563" with message 
> "MYOBContacts"
> set the contents of ResultField to TheResult

No. There is a lot wrong with it, to be blunt.  ;-)

The first line would probably look like -
open socket to "127.0.0.1:4563" with message "MYOBContacts"

But - "MYOBContacts" would be a handler in your scripts which the 
socket connection is going to make a callback to. It is the definition 
of a callback you are making there, not the message sent to the socket. 
That happens with a "write" command.

The second line looks like it would be creating a custom property... it 
probably wants to look something like -
put theResult into field "ResultField"

However, "TheResult" would currently not be holding anything very 
useful. You will need to "Read" from the socket before and place the 
result of that into a variable.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From bvg at mac.com  Fri Aug 27 17:58:29 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:58:29 +0200
Subject: Sockets
In-Reply-To: <01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
References: <012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com>
	<01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
Message-ID: <3B055EF0-F874-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>

> ...
> set TheResult to open socket "127.0.0.1:4563" with message 
> "MYOBContacts"
> set the contents of ResultField to TheResult
> ...

blocking:

on mouseUp
   open Socket "127.0.0.1:4563"
   write "MYOBContacts" to socket "127.0.0.1:4563"
   close socket "127.0.0.1:4563"
end mouseUp

nonblocking:

on mouseUp
   Open Socket "127.0.0.1:4563" with message "socketOpen"
end mouseUp

on socketOpen theIP
   write "MYOBContacts" to socket theIP with message "messageWritten"
end socketOpen

on messageWritten theIP
   close socket theIP
end messageWritten

complicated I know :)
Bjoernke

<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.1.rev"


From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Fri Aug 27 18:01:11 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 08:01:11 +1000
Subject: Sockets
References: 	<012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com><01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<522B85E4-F873-11D8-91CB-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <01e901c48c81$5d472530$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>

Hi Troy

> No. There is a lot wrong with it, to be blunt.  ;-)

Excellent!! ( Had to start somewhere :-) )

> The first line would probably look like -
> open socket to "127.0.0.1:4563" with message "MYOBContacts"
>
> But - "MYOBContacts" would be a handler in your scripts which the
> socket connection is going to make a callback to. It is the definition
> of a callback you are making there, not the message sent to the socket.
Is defining the call back like defining the name space for the socket?

In realbasic I would do something like this where kjtlTCPCommander is a
socket subclass
which handles all the read and write functions.

  TCPCommander = new kjtlTCPCommander
  TCPCommander.Address = Address
  TCPCommander.Port = Port
  if TCPCommander.Run( Command, Message ) then
    AdviseResult( 0, Verbose, Message )
  else
    AdviseResult( 1, Verbose, Message )
  end if


> That happens with a "write" command.
>
How do you access the socket object?

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 27 18:16:11 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:16:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Link to an Educational Stack
In-Reply-To: <20040827092128.30911.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040827221611.49079.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Alejandro Tejada <capellan2000 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> on Thu, 26 Aug 2004
> Mark Greenberg wrote:

> > The New York Times featured me and this
> > teaching approach in the 
> > Circuit section last Thursday (front page). 
> > That's  me in the picture.
> 
> This is the direction for this article. 
> make an account with the NYT.

>
<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/19/technology/circuits/19teac.html>
> 
> The article mentioned that you had created
> dozens of games: a role-playing card game
> called 
> Magic: The Gathering that requires students to
> "dress"
> historical figures with qualities that best fit
> their
> names, a multimedia quiz on comma placement or
> the 
> multiplication of polynomials, fill in blank
> speech 
> balloons from Calvin and Hobbes comic strips
> and
> Jeopardy-like games to train students for the
> Academic Decathlon, a student contest.

sounds like an active sense of play inplay.

Andre Garzia (with a Z) wrote:
"code and comedy are very similar,
how many times you looked at a source 
and laughed..."

this speaks to Richard Gaskin's thoughts 
on using RunRev in brand new ways.

maybe humor is a crucial though intangiable
element in educational apps for kids.

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Fri Aug 27 18:27:23 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 08:27:23 +1000
Subject: Sockets
References: 	<012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com><01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<3B055EF0-F874-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <01fe01c48c85$0632ad60$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>

Hi Bj?rnke

Here is the code I have based on your example.
I have breakpoints on each event, however only the first event, mouseup
stops in the debugger.
on mouseUp

    open socket "192.168.100.63:4563" with message "socketOpen"

end mouseUp

on socketOpen theIP

    write "Hello" to socket theIP with message "messageWritten"

end socketOpen

on messageWritten theIP

    close socket theIP

end messageWritten

I know the port is open since I can send a command from a linux command line

extract...

ns2: # PortCommandLiner.mwrb -a 192.168.100.63 -p 4563 -c Hello -v
World

Any further ideas?

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org






From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Fri Aug 27 18:31:39 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:31:39 -0400
Subject: dial
In-Reply-To: <483F1A71-F871-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
References: <FBBC1371-F6D8-11D8-B1F0-0003937E4820@wanadoo.fr>
	<B845E646-F870-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<483F1A71-F871-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <DCFA9B70-F878-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Oh, and then there's the easy way to do it:

http://www.fjrhome.net/PhoneDialer.rev

On Aug 27, 2004, at 5:37 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:

> write to driver, maybe?
>
> On Aug 27, 2004, at 5:33 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> There could be a lot of reasons the dial command isn't supported in 
>> Revolution. I have not tried to use the alternative approaches, but 
>> what looks potentially promising for what you want to do is the write 
>> to file command with modem as the file identifier. This is documented 
>> and may do what you want.
>>
>>
>> On Aug 25, 2004, at 1:54 PM, doupsy at wanadoo.fr wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> With Hypercard, it was very very simple to dial a phone number ( 
>>> dial "05 02 00 00 00 for ex" with modem ).
>>> Only you click  with one hand on a button to dial and with other 
>>> hand you take your t?l?phone to your ear.
>>>
>>> Why it is impossible to dial with Revolution ?
>>> (I am under OS X)
>>>
>>> I try :
>>>
>>> close driver "/dev/cu.modem"
>>> open driver "/dev/cu.modem"
>>> write "ATDT"&PhoneNumber&CR to  driver "/dev/cu.modem"
>>> read from driver "/dev/cu.modem" until eof
>>> (write "ATH"&cr to driver "/dev/cu.modem"
>>> read from driver "/dev/cu.modem" until eof)
>>>
>>> With Revolution you must think when you must click on the button to 
>>> dial, when you must lift the receiver, when you must hang up, 
>>> etc....
>>> And most often, the application crash.
>>>
>>> Could you help me, or not ?
>>>
>>> I am not an informatician.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Edouard
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
>> Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>> http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
>> Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
> 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
> Signup at www.doteasy.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 27 18:35:01 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:35:01 -0400
Subject: Sockets
In-Reply-To: <01fe01c48c85$0632ad60$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
References: 	<012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com><01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<3B055EF0-F874-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
	<01fe01c48c85$0632ad60$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
Message-ID: <551D60C2-F879-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:27 PM, Keith Hutchison wrote:

> Any further ideas?

Well, are you expecting to "read" something from the socket, or just 
write to it?

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From kevin at runrev.com  Fri Aug 27 18:35:49 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:35:49 +0100
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1
Message-ID: <BD5575D5.3E34%kevin@runrev.com>

Hi Folks,

Release candidate is now up for Windows, Mac OS X and Linux.

A few things to note:

You won't be able to access any of the external web browser links in this
yet, as they point to the updated web site which is currently password
protected as it gets finished.  The new site will go live when we launch.

The content for the Learning Center is still not finished.  This is
something we can update online without having to release another version of
the product.  It will be up over the next couple of days.  The installation
process now detects if the correct video codec has been installed.

The keys needed to unlock this release have not changed since beta 2.  Note
that the store and key generation systems will be taken up and down
throughout the weekend as we upgrade them in final preparation for release.
Please do not email support if you are unable to get a key from the system
because it is down - support does not have access to the system when it is
down either.  Apologies in advance for any inconvenience, this disruption is
unavoidable and will create a better system for all.

We're aware of an issue in the Documentation freezing for a minute or so
when accessing it with Web Notes turned on at the same time as downloading a
video from Rev Online.  We'll probably patch this in a minor rebuild before
we ship.

The Sample Stacks that used to be shipped with the product will be included
on the updated site as an optional download, this is so that the new Sample
Projects, which are carefully designed and commented for learning, are the
ones that new users are pointed to.  We will also be including the new
Externals SDK on the updated web site when it goes live.

At this time we are no longer able to respond to minor glitches or
annoyances reported.  This is because we must change as little as possible
in any rebuild to ensure we don't introduce any new issues.

Please do not give these URLs out.  Classic is still to follow.

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC1/linux.tgz
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC1/revolution-2.5-rc1.i386
.rpm
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC1/revsetup.exe
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC1/revolution.zip
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC1/revolutionosx.dmg

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Aug 27 18:45:20 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:45:20 -0700
Subject: Documentation in 2.5
Message-ID: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

I have been working a good bit with 2.5b2 and have found very few major 
issues with it, and certainly none that haven't been reported.

But I'd like to be contrary for a moment here (yeah, I know...big 
shock, right?) and ask why documentation was "fixed" for 2.5 when as 
far as I was concerned it was never broken in 2.2. In fact, it is all 
but unusable for the kinds of things I use the online docs for in 2.5.

This is not to say docs in 2.2 are perfect. But for the most part, they 
at least work well.

In the online docs for 2.5, I am constantly ending up with that 
curmudgeonly dialog box that says nothing matched my search criteria. 
This happens whether I've actually finished entering my search criteria 
or not, and it happens most maddeningly when it can't find something  I 
know is there.

Case in point: the choose command.

In 2.2, I go into the Transcript Dictionary and I tell it to search for 
"choose" and it instantly comes up with the right command. I ask it to 
find "choose toolname" thinking that this might be the syntax. Boom. 
Finds it. Same for "choose tool."

Try those same things in 2.5b2. The search for "choose" brings up a 
longish list, none of which is any command, let alone the  choose 
command. (I think it might be looking for TOPICS with the word "choose" 
but I'm guessing; the UI provides zero feedback about what is going 
on.) I click on "Dictionary" with the word "choose" in the search field 
and I get a bunch of commands that have the word "choose" in their 
description. The choose command is one of them. Try " choose tool" or 
"choose toolname". Result: nothing found.

I've had this experience over and over and over again. I'm sure there 
must be some fabulous new features in the new docs or RR wouldn't have 
taken time to update them, but can we PLEASE just have them work at 
least as well as they did in 2.2?

I'm one of those strange birds who actually reads such things. If I can 
find them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Fri Aug 27 18:47:31 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 08:47:31 +1000
Subject: Sockets
References: 	<012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com><01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><3B055EF0-F874-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com><01fe01c48c85$0632ad60$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<551D60C2-F879-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <021101c48c87$d68069b0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>

Hi Troy

Read and write.
Concept is send in a command via tcpip to a server, process the results on
the Runtime Revolution built client.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org



From bvg at mac.com  Fri Aug 27 18:58:20 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:58:20 +0200
Subject: Sockets
In-Reply-To: <01fe01c48c85$0632ad60$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
References: <012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com>
	<01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<3B055EF0-F874-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
	<01fe01c48c85$0632ad60$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
Message-ID: <97014364-F87C-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>

ok try this modification, there seems to be a problem with the open 
socket command... maybe the socket is already open? the result will 
contain the error information.

on mouseUp

     open socket "192.168.100.63:4563" with message "socketOpen"

if the result <> "" then put the result

end mouseUp

if indeed the socket is already open, then you can close all sockets by 
using the command "resetall"
I just tested it, and indeed it does not close the socket. Strange, I 
have no idea why that could be?
anyway to read from the socket you need to know either the length of 
the returned data, or the delimiter at the end of the data (ie. return) 
then you can read from your socket

read from socket  "192.168.100.63:4563" until return
or
read from socket  "192.168.100.63:4563" for 20 chars

why don't you join the chat, we can help you live there :)
type this into the message box:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.1.rev"

On Aug 28 2004, at 00:27, Keith Hutchison wrote:

> Hi Bj?rnke
>
> Here is the code I have based on your example.
> I have breakpoints on each event, however only the first event, mouseup
> stops in the debugger.
> on mouseUp
>
>     open socket "192.168.100.63:4563" with message "socketOpen"
>
> end mouseUp
>
> on socketOpen theIP
>
>     write "Hello" to socket theIP with message "messageWritten"
>
> end socketOpen
>
> on messageWritten theIP
>
>     close socket theIP
>
> end messageWritten
>
> I know the port is open since I can send a command from a linux 
> command line
>
> extract...
>
> ns2: # PortCommandLiner.mwrb -a 192.168.100.63 -p 4563 -c Hello -v
> World
>
> Any further ideas?


<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.1.rev"


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Aug 27 19:00:34 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:00:34 -0500
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
In-Reply-To: <BD5575D5.3E34%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD552742.499A%kray@sonsothunder.com>

Before I log this to Bugzilla, I just want to check and see if anyone else
sees this with the RC1 build - double-click on the Revolution Player and it
will get to a point where it says "Preparing..." and then it freezes (I'm on
OS X 10.3.4). If I force quit, there's a file left behind called "Revolution
Launcher".

Anyone else see this?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 27 19:06:39 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:06:39 -0400
Subject: Sockets
In-Reply-To: <021101c48c87$d68069b0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
References: 	<012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com><01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><3B055EF0-F874-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com><01fe01c48c85$0632ad60$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<551D60C2-F879-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<021101c48c87$d68069b0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
Message-ID: <C09C7DB6-F87D-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:47 PM, Keith Hutchison wrote:

> Read and write.
> Concept is send in a command via tcpip to a server, process the 
> results on
> the Runtime Revolution built client.

Well then, in your description you are -
opening the socket
once open, writing to the socket
once written, closing the socket

You probably want to have something like -

on messageWritten theIP

     read from socket theIP until linefeed with message "storeData"

end messageWritten
----------
on storeData theIP, theMessage
	Put theMessage into field "resultField"
end storeData

Generally, you will keep going back and reading, until some condition 
tells your software to stop that. So the storeData handler may well 
make a new call to "read from socket..." again, etc.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 27 19:09:48 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:09:48 -0400
Subject: Documentation in 2.5 - still doesn't show correct document - gives
	xmlerr
In-Reply-To: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <318EE98B-F87E-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Am I missing something here?

When I open the documentation and click on dictionary, I get a list of 
terms at the left. However, when I select an item (highlight OR 
double-click on) from this list (regardless of item chosen), what gets 
displayed at the right is STILL  "xmlerr, bad document id xmlerr, bad"

At this point, I'd be glad to get as far as Dan describes.

What am I doing wrong?

M

On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:45 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> In the online docs for 2.5, I am constantly ending up with that 
> curmudgeonly dialog box that says nothing matched my search criteria. 
> This happens whether I've actually finished entering my search 
> criteria or not, and it happens most maddeningly when it can't find 
> something  I know is there.
>


From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 27 19:18:22 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:18:22 -0400
Subject: Documentation in 2.5
In-Reply-To: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <63D1CA60-F87F-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:45 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> But I'd like to be contrary for a moment here (yeah, I know...big 
> shock, right?) and ask why documentation was "fixed" for 2.5 when as 
> far as I was concerned it was never broken in 2.2. In fact, it is all 
> but unusable for the kinds of things I use the online docs for in 2.5.

Well, there was a lot of demand for an updated approach to the docs, 
though the content was considered excellent. A single-window design was 
high on the request list.

As you can see, the docs have a lot of new features built-in, and take 
advantage of a lot of the new features that Revolution offers... XML, 
etc.

It seems all this updating comes with a price-tag though... performance 
doesn't begin to compare, and the search functionality seems less 
accurate than before... which was far from the best feature to begin 
with. All in all, it seems that we've traded one set of inefficiencies 
for a different set of inefficiencies.

I'm not going to let it stop me from using 2.5, since at least the docs 
no longer freeze Rev, but I'm sincerely hoping that the decision is 
made to use the XML as only an authoring-time tool, but have the doc's 
data be based on stacks and cards rather than raw XML, which they 
currently seem to be. Using the native database qualities of Revolution 
should bring us back the speed and search functionality we enjoyed 
previously, while still wrapped in the sexy new package.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Aug 27 19:29:58 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:29:58 -0700
Subject: Documentation in 2.5 - still doesn't show correct document -
	gives xmlerr
In-Reply-To: <318EE98B-F87E-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<318EE98B-F87E-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0256A236-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Well, I get the doc to appear when I click on it, but things are worse 
in the new RC1. Now when I do a Search for "choose", I get a huge list 
of dictionary entries, each of which apparently includes the word 
"choose" in its text, but the list is not in any discernible order. 
Makes it completely useless.

(BTW, the choose command itself appears near the bottom of this 
randomly ordered list.)

I don't see ANY value in a search that looks for text inside 
descriptions of these commands. In the dictionary, the search out by 
default look only for the key words themselves in the name of the item, 
no? Or am I missing something here about how other people use these 
things?

Now, if I click on "Topics" then a full-text search probably has real 
value. But not in the Dictionary.

Dan


On Aug 27, 2004, at 4:09 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Am I missing something here?
>
> When I open the documentation and click on dictionary, I get a list of 
> terms at the left. However, when I select an item (highlight OR 
> double-click on) from this list (regardless of item chosen), what gets 
> displayed at the right is STILL  "xmlerr, bad document id xmlerr, bad"
>
> At this point, I'd be glad to get as far as Dan describes.
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> M
>
> On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:45 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> In the online docs for 2.5, I am constantly ending up with that 
>> curmudgeonly dialog box that says nothing matched my search criteria. 
>> This happens whether I've actually finished entering my search 
>> criteria or not, and it happens most maddeningly when it can't find 
>> something  I know is there.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Aug 27 19:30:34 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:30:34 -0700
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
In-Reply-To: <BD552742.499A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD552742.499A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <1811B7B8-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Heck, I didn't even get a Revolution Player in my OS X download.

:-(

Dan

On Aug 27, 2004, at 4:00 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Before I log this to Bugzilla, I just want to check and see if anyone 
> else
> sees this with the RC1 build - double-click on the Revolution Player 
> and it
> will get to a point where it says "Preparing..." and then it freezes 
> (I'm on
> OS X 10.3.4). If I force quit, there's a file left behind called 
> "Revolution
> Launcher".
>
> Anyone else see this?
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Aug 27 19:32:19 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:32:19 -0700
Subject: dial
In-Reply-To: <DCFA9B70-F878-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
References: <FBBC1371-F6D8-11D8-B1F0-0003937E4820@wanadoo.fr>
	<B845E646-F870-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<483F1A71-F871-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<DCFA9B70-F878-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <56CFDB6A-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Which generates nice tones but of course doesn't connect to the phone.

Dan

On Aug 27, 2004, at 3:31 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:

> Oh, and then there's the easy way to do it:
>
> http://www.fjrhome.net/PhoneDialer.rev


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 27 19:34:42 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:34:42 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
In-Reply-To: <1811B7B8-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <BD552742.499A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<1811B7B8-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <AB9B1286-F881-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

It almost seems like we got different downloads, Dan. There IS a player 
in my download but the docs definitely still don't work. Dox work for 
you but there is no player. What gives?

And, yes Ken the player hangs for me, too.

Just out of curiosity, am I the only person who still gets xmlerr  as a 
response when selecting an item in the dox?

M
On Aug 27, 2004, at 7:30 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Heck, I didn't even get a Revolution Player in my OS X download.
>
> :-(
>
> Dan
>
> On Aug 27, 2004, at 4:00 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>
>> Before I log this to Bugzilla, I just want to check and see if anyone 
>> else
>> sees this with the RC1 build - double-click on the Revolution Player 
>> and it
>> will get to a point where it says "Preparing..." and then it freezes 
>> (I'm on
>> OS X 10.3.4). If I force quit, there's a file left behind called 
>> "Revolution
>> Launcher".
>>
>> Anyone else see this?
>>
>> Ken Ray
>> Sons of Thunder Software
>> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 27 19:38:22 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:38:22 -0400
Subject: Documentation in 2.5 - still doesn't show correct document -
	gives xmlerr
In-Reply-To: <0256A236-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<318EE98B-F87E-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<0256A236-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <2EF43CA7-F882-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Am I the only person who continues to get xmlerr document when trying 
to select an item in the dox??

Am redownloading now to be sure I didn't just get a corrupt download...
M

On Aug 27, 2004, at 7:29 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Well, I get the doc to appear when I click on it, but things are worse 
> in the new RC1. Now when I do a Search for "choose", I get a huge list 
> of dictionary entries, each of which apparently includes the word 
> "choose" in its text, but the list is not in any discernible order. 
> Makes it completely useless.
>
>
> On Aug 27, 2004, at 4:09 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> Am I missing something here?
>>
>> When I open the documentation and click on dictionary, I get a list 
>> of terms at the left. However, when I select an item (highlight OR 
>> double-click on) from this list (regardless of item chosen), what 
>> gets displayed at the right is STILL  "xmlerr, bad document id 
>> xmlerr, bad"
>>
>> At this point, I'd be glad to get as far as Dan describes.
>>
>> What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> M


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Fri Aug 27 19:59:57 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:59:57 -0400
Subject: dial
In-Reply-To: <56CFDB6A-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <FBBC1371-F6D8-11D8-B1F0-0003937E4820@wanadoo.fr>
	<B845E646-F870-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<483F1A71-F871-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<DCFA9B70-F878-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<56CFDB6A-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <32A68AC2-F885-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

No, but you can at least hold one up to the speaker ;-)

It's something anyway.

On Aug 27, 2004, at 7:32 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Which generates nice tones but of course doesn't connect to the phone.
>
> Dan
>
> On Aug 27, 2004, at 3:31 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
>
>> Oh, and then there's the easy way to do it:
>>
>> http://www.fjrhome.net/PhoneDialer.rev
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



___________________________________________________________
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Aug 27 20:17:22 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:17:22 -0700
Subject: Documentation in 2.5
In-Reply-To: <63D1CA60-F87F-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<63D1CA60-F87F-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <412FCF12.3050700@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:

> 
> On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:45 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
> 
>> But I'd like to be contrary for a moment here (yeah, I know...big 
>> shock, right?) and ask why documentation was "fixed" for 2.5 when as 
>> far as I was concerned it was never broken in 2.2. In fact, it is all 
>> but unusable for the kinds of things I use the online docs for in 2.5.
>
> Well, there was a lot of demand for an updated approach to the docs, 
> though the content was considered excellent. A single-window design was 
> high on the request list.

A single-window design can still be accomodated with having content 
stored in stacks rather than XML, thanks to the "in window of" option 
for the go command:

   go stack <stackName> in window of <stackName>

The production benefits of atomizing the Help files into thousands of 
tiny XML files could still be maintained for the dev team, while 
importing that content into stack files for delivery to the user.

I have an importer for the Transcript Dictionary files that uses a 
variant of the old MetaTalk Dictionary as a shell to hold them -- it 
takes less than 30 seconds to import and once it's done moving from item 
to item is lightning fast.

The Help system that ships with the product could be updated to use 
importers as part of the build process (assuming it's as automated as 
builds here that means adding only one line to a StripAndShip handler).

It would take a couple days to revamp the Help stacks for local storage, 
but I'd happily donate my Dictionary importer to the effort it there was 
an interest in doing this for v2.5.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From moe2 at shaw.ca  Fri Aug 27 20:12:52 2004
From: moe2 at shaw.ca (moe2 at shaw.ca)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:12:52 -0700
Subject: dial
In-Reply-To: <56CFDB6A-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BD551C13.744B%moe2@shaw.ca>

hold the part of the phone you talk into up to the computer speaker that
produce the tones ... the phone will dial quite nicely ... and you will
already have the phone in your hand

> Which generates nice tones but of course doesn't connect to the phone.
> 
> Dan
> 
> On Aug 27, 2004, at 3:31 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
> 
>> Oh, and then there's the easy way to do it:
>> 
>> http://www.fjrhome.net/PhoneDialer.rev
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Fri Aug 27 20:26:17 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 02:26:17 +0200
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
Message-ID: <E0734724-F888-11D8-8126-003065CC999E@pi.be>

> Re: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
> 	? 	From: Marian Petrides
> 	? 	 Subject: Re: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
> 	? 	 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:34:49 -0700
>
>  It almost seems like we got different downloads, Dan. There IS a 
> player in my download but the docs definitely still don't work. Dox 
> work for you but there is no player. What gives?
>
>
> And, yes Ken the player hangs for me, too.
>
> Just out of curiosity, am I the only person who still gets xmlerr as a 
> response when selecting an item in the dox?
>
>
> M

>> On Aug 27, 2004, at 7:30 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Heck, I didn't even get a Revolution Player in my OS X download.
>>
>>
>> :-(
>>
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 27, 2004, at 4:00 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Before I log this to Bugzilla, I just want to check and see if 
>>> anyone else
>>>  sees this with the RC1 build - double-click on the Revolution 
>>> Player and it
>>>  will get to a point where it says "Preparing..." and then it 
>>> freezes (I'm on
>>>  OS X 10.3.4). If I force quit, there's a file left behind called 
>>> "Revolution
>>>  Launcher".
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone else see this?
>>>
>>>
>>> Ken Ray
>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>

Hi,

The player object is produced once Rev is started up once.
The launcher object is produced once the player is launched.

True the player hangs when inside the Rev folder.
If one drags a stack on the app icon after the clock cursor has changed 
to pointer it will open in the player though the home stack won't hide.
But the player works like a charm when outside the rev folder and 
started with a stack.

Greetings,
WA


From yoy at comcast.net  Fri Aug 27 20:16:50 2004
From: yoy at comcast.net (yoy)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:16:50 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1
References: <BD5575D5.3E34%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000801c48c94$54431f30$35d45144@fatal>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Miller" <kevin at runrev.com>
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1


> At this time we are no longer able to respond to minor glitches or
> annoyances reported.  This is because we must change as little as possible
> in any rebuild to ensure we don't introduce any new issues.

C'mon! That's an outright POS comment.

Establish a known bugged FC???

Hah, Hah!

Andy


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Aug 27 20:38:17 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:38:17 -0500
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
In-Reply-To: <E0734724-F888-11D8-8126-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <BD553E29.49B2%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/27/04 7:26 PM, "Wouter" <wouter.abraham at pi.be> wrote:

> True the player hangs when inside the Rev folder.
> If one drags a stack on the app icon after the clock cursor has changed
> to pointer it will open in the player though the home stack won't hide.
> But the player works like a charm when outside the rev folder and
> started with a stack.

This just shouldn't be... how many people are going to see another app in
the Rev folder and 2x-click it to see what it does? Answer: Lots. And they
shouldn't be greeted with a hanging application. It should at least say
something like "Move this out of the Rev folder before launching", although
for the life of me I can't understand why it doesn't work in the Rev folder
but does outside of it.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Aug 27 20:40:19 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:40:19 -0500
Subject: Documentation in 2.5 - still doesn't show correct document -
 gives xmlerr
In-Reply-To: <2EF43CA7-F882-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BD553EA3.49B4%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/27/04 6:38 PM, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Am I the only person who continues to get xmlerr document when trying
> to select an item in the dox??
> 
> Am redownloading now to be sure I didn't just get a corrupt download...

Sorry, Marian... I don't get it. What OS are you on? (I'm on OS X 10.3.4)
Perhaps that has something to do with it...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Fri Aug 27 20:43:08 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 02:43:08 +0200
Subject: 2.5 RC 1
Message-ID: <3B41BD3E-F88B-11D8-8126-003065CC999E@pi.be>

Hi,

The changes to and speeding up of the docs in the the 2.5RC1 --  
excellent -- !!!
Overall security of password protected stacks  -- much improved -- !!!!

Congrats.

WA


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Fri Aug 27 20:50:05 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 02:50:05 +0200
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
Message-ID: <33E94410-F88C-11D8-8126-003065CC999E@pi.be>

Re: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
	? 	From: Ken Ray
	? 	 Subject: Re: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
	? 	 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:39:33 -0700
>
> On 8/27/04 7:26 PM, "Wouter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > True the player hangs when inside the Rev folder.
> > If one drags a stack on the app icon after the clock cursor has 
> changed
> > to pointer it will open in the player though the home stack won't 
> hide.
> > But the player works like a charm when outside the rev folder and
> > started with a stack.
>
> This just shouldn't be... how many people are going to see another app 
> in
> the Rev folder and 2x-click it to see what it does? Answer: Lots. And 
> they
> shouldn't be greeted with a hanging application. It should at least say
> something like "Move this out of the Rev folder before launching", 
> although
> for the life of me I can't understand why it doesn't work in the Rev 
> folder
> but does outside of it.

Correct.
But Rev  is not really *hanging*.
You still can drag stacks on the player icon and they will be loaded.
Only minor change in script will resolve this in the final candidate I 
am sure.
That's why they should still accept bugzilla reports or read the list 
thoroughly.

>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

WA


From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 27 20:57:16 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:57:16 -0400
Subject: 2.5 RC 1
In-Reply-To: <3B41BD3E-F88B-11D8-8126-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <3B41BD3E-F88B-11D8-8126-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <34C71B2A-F88D-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 27, 2004, at 8:43 PM, Wouter wrote:

> Overall security of password protected stacks  -- much improved -- !!!!

Oh? In what way?
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 27 20:59:45 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:59:45 -0400
Subject: Documentation in 2.5 - xmlerr resolved
In-Reply-To: <BD553EA3.49B4%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD553EA3.49B4%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <8D60A577-F88D-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

I am on OS X 10.3.5.

I think I have solved the mystery.  The problem appears to be having 
the Rev folder inside another folder with special characters  (opt-f, 
opt-;) in the folder's name.

The second download worked once but then I quit Rev and moved the Rev 
app folder into another named Rev 2.5 RC1 ?? This generated the xmlerr. 
  However, when Rev is out on the desktop OR if the folder it is in is 
named  "Rev 2.5 RC1 Folder,"  then the dox work. They consistently do 
NOT  work if Rev is inside a folder named Rev 2.5 RC1 ??

Can anyone confirm this? If so, I will bugzilla it, if only so that 
users can be warned not to use special characters in path leading to 
the Rev app.

M


On Aug 27, 2004, at 8:40 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 8/27/04 6:38 PM, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Am I the only person who continues to get xmlerr document when trying
>> to select an item in the dox??
>>
>> Am redownloading now to be sure I didn't just get a corrupt 
>> download...
>
> Sorry, Marian... I don't get it. What OS are you on? (I'm on OS X 
> 10.3.4)
> Perhaps that has something to do with it...
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 27 21:04:37 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:04:37 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
In-Reply-To: <BD553E29.49B2%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD553E29.49B2%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <3B506018-F88E-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

This version of Rev seems to be quite sensitive to placement inside 
folders. See the solution I just posted to why the dox were not 
displaying for me.  I had moved Rev app folder into a folder named Rev 
2.5 RC1 ?? and Rev apparently didn't like the fact that it was nested 
inside a folder with special characters in the name (opt-f, opt-;)

M
On Aug 27, 2004, at 8:38 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>  It should at least say
> something like "Move this out of the Rev folder before launching", 
> although
> for the life of me I can't understand why it doesn't work in the Rev 
> folder
> but does outside of it.


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Aug 27 21:17:43 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:17:43 -0500
Subject: Sockets
In-Reply-To: <021101c48c87$d68069b0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
References: 	<012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com><01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><3B055EF0-F874-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com><01fe01c48c85$0632ad60$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<551D60C2-F879-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<021101c48c87$d68069b0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
Message-ID: <412FDD37.60804@chipp.com>

Keith,

Not sure if you've already answered this, but I've a couple of comments 
for you.

If the server is a webserver, then you can use libURL to access it w/out 
having to mess around with opening and closing sockets.

Just use:

put URL "http://www.myserver.com/fred.mydocformat" into fld 1

and check out the post URL command as well.

-Chipp


From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Aug 27 21:28:38 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 02:28:38 +0100
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1
In-Reply-To: <000801c48c94$54431f30$35d45144@fatal>
References: <BD5575D5.3E34%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040828021824.02d21740@mail.tweedly.net>

At 20:16 27/08/2004 -0400, yoy wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kevin Miller" <kevin at runrev.com>
>Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1
>
>
> > At this time we are no longer able to respond to minor glitches or
> > annoyances reported.  This is because we must change as little as possible
> > in any rebuild to ensure we don't introduce any new issues.
>
>C'mon! That's an outright POS comment.
>
>Establish a known bugged FC???

No, in fact that's outright common sense. Introducing changes to software 
carries a risk of unintended consequences - even with the best automated 
testing methods around, you can't afford to risk making unnecessary changes 
at the last minute. If you find a major problem, you must fix it; if you 
find a serious or moderate problem, you have to make judgement - that's why 
software development managers gets paid big bucks; but if you find a minor 
annoyance you must not fix it.

As the release date gets closer, you have to "throttle down" on introducing 
changes to minor bugs and annoyances. I don't know a software company that 
doesn't use some form of this "throttling" technique as it gets to 
final  release of large products. You can do it differently for smaller 
products, where the predictability of unintended consequences is orders of 
magnitude smaller - but not for medium or large products, and I think Rev 
must be big enough to qualify for that category.

-- Alex.

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 27 21:18:50 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:18:50 -0400
Subject: Documentation in 2.5
In-Reply-To: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <37F5D78C-F890-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:45 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

 >>>Try those same things in 2.5b2. The search for "choose" brings up a 
longish list, none of which is any command, let alone the  choose 
command.

Now that I finally have gotten the dox to work, I have to agree with 
Dan--the search feature has been rendered less than useless (useless 
doesn't help, less than useless makes more work).

An even more telling case-in-point.  Try searching for "xml."  You'd 
think this would be unique enough to provide a limited number of hits, 
all of which have SOME relevance.  Nope. The list it generates is 59 
screens (page downs) long and includes such irrelevant items as 
RevSpeak (which does not have "xml" anywhere in the text of the entry.)

 >>>I'm one of those strange birds who actually reads such things. If I 
can find them.

Me too.  Looks like I'm going to have to keep a copy of Rev 2.1.2 
running alongside of 2.5, so I can search the dictionary while working. 
Bummer. :-(

M




From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 27 21:22:48 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:22:48 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040828021824.02d21740@mail.tweedly.net>
References: <BD5575D5.3E34%kevin@runrev.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20040828021824.02d21740@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <C5A8977F-F890-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Alex is right.
What's more Kevin didn't say RunRev was going to disregard minor 
glitches, just that fixes may have to wait until a later release.

Frankly, I'd rather deal with the devil I know (minor glitches) than 
with one I don't (unrecognized bugs introduced in the process of last 
minute tweaks to fix minor annoyances).


On Aug 27, 2004, at 9:28 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> At 20:16 27/08/2004 -0400, yoy wrote:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kevin Miller" <kevin at runrev.com>
>> Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1
>>
>>
>> > At this time we are no longer able to respond to minor glitches or
>> > annoyances reported.  This is because we must change as little as 
>> possible
>> > in any rebuild to ensure we don't introduce any new issues.
>>
>> C'mon! That's an outright POS comment.
>>
>> Establish a known bugged FC???
>
> No, in fact that's outright common sense. Introducing changes to 
> software carries a risk of unintended consequences - even with the 
> best automated testing methods around, you can't afford to risk making 
> unnecessary changes at the last minute. If you find a major problem, 
> you must fix it; if you find a serious or moderate problem, you have 
> to make judgement - that's why software development managers gets paid 
> big bucks; but if you find a minor annoyance you must not fix it.
>
> As the release date gets closer, you have to "throttle down" on 
> introducing changes to minor bugs and annoyances. I don't know a 
> software company that doesn't use some form of this "throttling" 
> technique as it gets to final  release of large products. You can do 
> it differently for smaller products, where the predictability of 
> unintended consequences is orders of magnitude smaller - but not for 
> medium or large products, and I think Rev must be big enough to 
> qualify for that category.
>
> -- Alex.


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 27 21:35:04 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:35:04 -0400
Subject: Documentation in 2.5
In-Reply-To: <37F5D78C-F890-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<37F5D78C-F890-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7C850ED9-F892-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

In the interest of providing positive as well as negative feedback, I 
really like the new object button in the dox.

Interestingly, search seems to work reasonably well in both the objects 
and FAQ section (but it doesn't work worth a flip in the dictionary).

M


From JaysLists at triad.rr.com  Fri Aug 27 21:54:03 2004
From: JaysLists at triad.rr.com (Jay Madren)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:54:03 -0400
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <f23bc2d70408271430572ae240@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIGHFGLCPMCDMJOHHEEMLEAAA.JaysLists@triad.rr.com>

Scott,

I use Firefox as my default browser, but to get RevZilla to work I just used
IE to login to Bugzilla and set the cookie one time.  Ever since then
(several months ago), I've never had to go back to IE.  Clicking on the
links in RevZilla takes me to Bugzilla in Firefox just fine.

Jay Madren

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Scott
Slaugh
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 17:31
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?


  One thing that I've wanted to see in RevZilla is visual feedback on
the button on the various pages that will take you to BugZilla's page
on that bug.  Right now, if I click it, nothing happens.  I then wait
a few seconds for my web browser to come up before I know for sure
that it was actually clicked.  It would be wonderful if the button had
a hilited state so that I could see when I hold the mouse down on it.
  The other feature I would like to see added is support for Firefox in
Windows.

Scott Slaugh
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Fri Aug 27 22:06:16 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:06:16 +1000
Subject: Sockets
References: 	<012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com><01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><3B055EF0-F874-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com><01fe01c48c85$0632ad60$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><551D60C2-F879-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net><021101c48c87$d68069b0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<C09C7DB6-F87D-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <008301c48ca3$9a7f5310$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>

Hi Troy

Thanks for your help.

Got it working.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf 
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org

From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Fri Aug 27 22:07:00 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:07:00 +1000
Subject: Sockets
References: 	<012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com><01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><3B055EF0-F874-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com><01fe01c48c85$0632ad60$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<97014364-F87C-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <008601c48ca3$b4209a90$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>

Hi Bj?rnke

Thanks for your online support.
Got it working,

Thanks

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org


From xslaugh at gmail.com  Fri Aug 27 22:07:28 2004
From: xslaugh at gmail.com (Scott Slaugh)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:07:28 -0600
Subject: Sockets
In-Reply-To: <412FDD37.60804@chipp.com>
References: <012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com><01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><3B055EF0-F874-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com><01fe01c48c85$0632ad60$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<551D60C2-F879-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<021101c48c87$d68069b0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP> <412FDD37.60804@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <f23bc2d7040827190740dbde73@mail.gmail.com>

  I've uploaded my networking library to revOnline.  It is under the
user xslaugh.  I have also uploaded a front end stack, which
demonstrates the use of the library.  This front end contains some
help, and the library has some comments in the script.
  This library currently uses datagram sockets to communicate, since
they worked better for the job I originally designed this stack for. 
Beware that data sent is not verified.  I do plan to add a version
that does not use datagrams to communicate at some point in the
future.
  Any comments on this are welcome!

Scott Slaugh

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:17:43 -0500, Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
> Keith,
> 
> Not sure if you've already answered this, but I've a couple of comments
> for you.
> 
> If the server is a webserver, then you can use libURL to access it w/out
> having to mess around with opening and closing sockets.
> 
> Just use:
> 
> put URL "http://www.myserver.com/fred.mydocformat" into fld 1
> 
> and check out the post URL command as well.
> 
> -Chipp
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

From RGould8 at aol.com  Fri Aug 27 22:48:59 2004
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 22:48:59 EDT
Subject: Modifying the guts of TCP/IP in Mac OS X
Message-ID: <b8.6101f2b4.2e614c9b@aol.com>

This may be way more than Revolution was intended for, but I haven't found 
much that can't be done with it:

I've got a client (an ISP), who has determined that for their fiber-optic 
network, they need to adjust the computer's "MUT_SIZE (maximum transmission unit 
size)" setting within the TCP/IP protocol.   This needs to be done in Mac OS 
X.   

They are presently doing this in Windows by adjusting certain registry values 
(the "TCP_RECEIVE_WINDOW_SIZE TCP/IP" registry)

This is more a Mac OS X question than anything - - - is type of TCP/IP 
modification even something that can be adjusted in Mac OS?

From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Fri Aug 27 22:55:19 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:55:19 +1000
Subject: Sockets [resolved]
Message-ID: <010201c48caa$74133000$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>


The example I ended up with is
http://balance-infosystems.com/applications/tcpcommander/TCPCommanderStack002.rev
I successfully got a list of myob contacts from an middleware application
server written in REALbasic to access a MYOB datafile via ADODB via an MS
access database!
Convoluted I know :-) , but the end result is a list of MYOB contacts from a
win32 resource being displayed on a MacOSX machine, and a happy graphic
designer who doesn't have to grapple with REALbasic...

Many thanks to all who responded.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org


From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Fri Aug 27 22:56:51 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:56:51 +1000
Subject: The store...
Message-ID: <010e01c48caa$ab524100$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>

 The Runtime Revolution Online Store is currently offline pending the
release of Revolution 2.5 - please check back soon. ?

When will the store be back on line?

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org


From RGould8 at aol.com  Fri Aug 27 23:05:03 2004
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:05:03 EDT
Subject: Any Revolution folks in Northern Virginia?
Message-ID: <12e.4a269d6a.2e61505f@aol.com>

Any Revolution developers in Northern Virginia?   I'm finding that I'm just 
getting swamped with work and I think I'd like to start outsourcing some 
Revolution development to others in the area.   Since this work involves 
telecommuncations devices in a lab environment, it really requires someone local to the 
Reston, Herdon or neaby.   It's work that is on-going, but not something that 
is full-time.   Perhaps 4-7 hours a week.   It involves a lot of HTTP-header 
and TCP/IP work, so if you're interested, you'll definitely want to have 
experience with Etherpeek and network-sniffing software.   Some of the 
telecommunications hardware, I can give you to have in your home.   Other things require 
time in the lab environment.

So, I can probably write more about this, once I find out if anyone is 
interested.   Please email me off the list if you are.

- Rob Gould

From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Aug 27 23:06:23 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:06:23 -0400
Subject: The store...
In-Reply-To: <010e01c48caa$ab524100$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
References: <010e01c48caa$ab524100$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
Message-ID: <3E4601E8-F89F-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 27, 2004, at 10:56 PM, Keith Hutchison wrote:

>  The Runtime Revolution Online Store is currently offline pending the
> release of Revolution 2.5 - please check back soon. ?
>
> When will the store be back on line?

Likely Monday. They are revamping over the weekend in preparation for 
the 2.5 release.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Fri Aug 27 23:12:43 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:12:43 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1  [bug# 1962 still broken]
Message-ID: <OF143ACAB3.D518BD1E-ON85256EFE.00106B29@sealedair.com>

This was bugzilla'd as RunRev instructed me to enter it there. The Bug 
number was 1962 

I have downloaded and installed 2.5 Release Candidate 1.  My Rev 
preferences has the correct http proxy info, yet Rev Online still fails 
from behind our corporate firewall. Why doesn't it prompt for firewall 
authentication like all other internet applications? I hope the final 
release won't be like this.

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1962

Summary: Can not access Rev-Online from behind firewall
Product: Revolution
Version: 2.5 B1
Platform: PC
OS/Version: All
Status: UNCONFIRMED
Severity: normal
Priority: P2
Component: Revolution Online
AssignedTo: 36degrees at runrev.com
ReportedBy: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com
QAContact: revbugs at lists.runrev.com

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Fri Aug 27 22:46:13 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:46:13 +1000
Subject: Sockets
References: 	<012601c48c74$4608e6e0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><f23bc2d704082714153522798d@mail.gmail.com><01bf01c48c7d$d4d7ce50$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><3B055EF0-F874-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com><01fe01c48c85$0632ad60$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP><551D60C2-F879-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net><021101c48c87$d68069b0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<412FDD37.60804@chipp.com> <f23bc2d7040827190740dbde73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00b201c48ca9$2f1bcfd0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>

Hi Scott

Thanks

The example I ended up with is
http://balance-infosystems.com/applications/tcpcommander/TCPCommanderStack002.rev
I successfully got a list of myob contacts from an middleware application
server written in REALbasic to access a MYOB datafile via ADODB via an MS
access database!
Convoluted I know :-) , but the end result is a list of MYOB contacts from a
win32 resource being displayed on a MacOSX machine, and a happy graphic
designer who doesn't have to grapple with REALbasic...

Many thanks to all who responded.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Aug 27 23:53:39 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:53:39 -0700
Subject: Modifying the guts of TCP/IP in Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <b8.6101f2b4.2e614c9b@aol.com>
References: <b8.6101f2b4.2e614c9b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2943938710.20040827205339@ahsoftware.net>

hi-

Here's how to modify the MTU under OSX. There's a lot of
under-the-hood stuff involved, but this article will step you through
it if you *really* need it.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107474

There's also a GUI utility call RMAC that automates this for you, but
the documentation is all in Japanese.

http://homepage.mac.com/johanneson/.cv/johanneson/Public/Tweaker.tgz-link.tgz

The pointers above are from

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/allthingsmac/7+Networking#3743

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug 28 00:38:24 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:38:24 -0700
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
In-Reply-To: <E0734724-F888-11D8-8126-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <E0734724-F888-11D8-8126-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <194894EE-F8AC-11D8-A579-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>


On Aug 27, 2004, at 5:26 PM, Wouter wrote:

>
> The player object is produced once Rev is started up once.
True. Odd but true.
> The launcher object is produced once the player is launched.
>
> True the player hangs when inside the Rev folder.
> If one drags a stack on the app icon after the clock cursor has 
> changed to pointer it will open in the player though the home stack 
> won't hide.
> But the player works like a charm when outside the rev folder and 
> started with a stack.
>
> Greetings,
> WA
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Aug 28 00:42:51 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:42:51 -0700
Subject: The store...
In-Reply-To: <3E4601E8-F89F-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <010e01c48caa$ab524100$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
	<3E4601E8-F89F-11D8-80DC-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <B84B3969-F8AC-11D8-A579-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Heather and I chatted about this today. It's obviously a top priority 
but they're really revamping and improving it, making for lots of 
checking, testing and debugging.

Dan

On Aug 27, 2004, at 8:06 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 27, 2004, at 10:56 PM, Keith Hutchison wrote:
>
>>  The Runtime Revolution Online Store is currently offline pending the
>> release of Revolution 2.5 - please check back soon. ?
>>
>> When will the store be back on line?
>
> Likely Monday. They are revamping over the weekend in preparation for 
> the 2.5 release.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug 28 00:52:47 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:52:47 -0500
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIGHFGLCPMCDMJOHHEEMLEAAA.JaysLists@triad.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BD5579CF.49E7%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/27/04 8:54 PM, "Jay Madren" <JaysLists at triad.rr.com> wrote:

> I use Firefox as my default browser, but to get RevZilla to work I just used
> IE to login to Bugzilla and set the cookie one time.  Ever since then
> (several months ago), I've never had to go back to IE.  Clicking on the
> links in RevZilla takes me to Bugzilla in Firefox just fine.

True. And I've added Firefox support for OS X, but right now I'm working on
a way to avoid the whole "cookie" issue and just allow you to provide an
email address and password to log in automatically. If this works, it won't
mattter what browser you're using... if it doesn't, I'll add Firefox support
for Windows. 

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug 28 00:54:21 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:54:21 -0500
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <f23bc2d70408271430572ae240@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BD557A2D.49E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/27/04 4:30 PM, "Scott Slaugh" <xslaugh at gmail.com> wrote:

>   One thing that I've wanted to see in RevZilla is visual feedback on
> the button on the various pages that will take you to BugZilla's page
> on that bug.  Right now, if I click it, nothing happens.  I then wait
> a few seconds for my web browser to come up before I know for sure
> that it was actually clicked.  It would be wonderful if the button had
> a hilited state so that I could see when I hold the mouse down on it.

No problem... I'll add some kind of indicator.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug 28 00:56:35 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:56:35 -0500
Subject: Launch with non-file argument(s)
In-Reply-To: <901AE57A-F86E-11D8-9F6F-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <BD557AB3.49ED%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/27/04 4:17 PM, "Frank D. Engel, Jr." <fde101 at fjrhome.net> wrote:

> How can I pass parameters with that?

Uh, I don't think you can... (oops, sorry).

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug 28 00:58:18 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:58:18 -0500
Subject: Printing records from the database
In-Reply-To: <5108972B-F845-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <BD557B1A.49EE%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/27/04 11:22 AM, "Hershel Fisch" <hershrev at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:

>>> 
>> 
>> Revolution allows you to build printable areas as large or as small as
>> you
>> like, so you'd just have to design a card so that it wasn't too large
>> for
>> your paper. (This may have to be done by trial and error a couple of
>> times,
>> but then it will work properly from that point on.)
> 
> Hi Ken,
> I need to print statements. I understand  I need to set up a card as a
> template and then put in the info via SQL(from my PostgreSQL db) each
> statement for a different customer. How would be the best way to do
> that, that I should have them all in one print ? The amount of
> statement amount varies .

Well, you could set up a field on the stack that is multi-column, and put
the statement information into the field using tabs to separate the columns
of data. If the data was longer than would fit on a single card (one that
was sized appropriately, say 8x10), you'd have to calculate where to
separate the data and put it on another printing card and then print them to
the printer.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Aug 28 01:38:18 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:38:18 -0500
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1 - Player Freeze?
In-Reply-To: <BD552742.499A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD552742.499A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <41301A4A.9080502@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/27/04 6:00 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Before I log this to Bugzilla, I just want to check and see if anyone else
> sees this with the RC1 build - double-click on the Revolution Player and it
> will get to a point where it says "Preparing..." and then it freezes (I'm on
> OS X 10.3.4). If I force quit, there's a file left behind called "Revolution
> Launcher".
> 
> Anyone else see this?

I've just entered bug #2086. I think removing the word "Preparing" won't 
cause too many glitches this late in the game, and would be enough to 
prevent users from thinking the app has hung. My other suggestion -- to 
ask for a stack to open -- could be postponed till a later version.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From Jeanpaulpoccard at aol.com  Sat Aug 28 05:50:49 2004
From: Jeanpaulpoccard at aol.com (Jeanpaulpoccard at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 05:50:49 EDT
Subject: link between standalone and doc on windows
Message-ID: <24.5f100a52.2e61af79@aol.com>

My standalone creates its own docs which extension is ".hti"

On MacOS 
   no problem,

On windows
   The problem arises when I try to display sevral docs by doublecliking on   
their icon from the desktop.


A double click on a doc icon lauches the standalone and a doc window is 
displayed.
but   what   happens if I doubleclick on another doc icon   ?
I expect   the standalone to display a second doc window.
In facts, Windows lauches once more the standalone, and the two standalones 
coexist in the memory. 
How can I obtain on windows the same behavior as on MacOs, only one 
standalone managing any doc opened from the desktop ?
Thank you for your help
Cordialement
Jean-Paul

From christian.brossier at free.fr  Sat Aug 28 06:59:46 2004
From: christian.brossier at free.fr (Christian Brossier)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:59:46 +0200
Subject: Documentation in 2.5 - xmlerr resolved
In-Reply-To: <20040828031046.C58E4930116@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040828031046.C58E4930116@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5FBCB700-F8E1-11D8-9132-000A95BD9FE2@free.fr>

I obtained the same result with Rev 2.5B2 and Rev 2.5RC1, and (french) 
Mac OS X 10.3.5 :

- Revolution in its folder "Revolution 2.5RC1" on the folder : no 
problem, the menuItem "Topics" is OK, and gives a lot of subjects ;

- the same folder in a folder the name of which is : R?volut?on ?" ( 3 
special characters : ?, ?, ?) : I get the bug, the menuItem "Topics" 
gives the xmlerr indication.

Christian Brossier

Le 28 ao?t 04, ? 05:10, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com a ?crit 
:

>
> De: Marian Petrides <mpetrides at earthlink.net>
> Date: 28 ao?t 2004 02:59:45 GMT+02:00
> ?: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Objet: R?p : Documentation in 2.5 - xmlerr resolved
> R?pondre ?: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>
>
> I am on OS X 10.3.5.
>
> I think I have solved the mystery.  The problem appears to be having 
> the Rev folder inside another folder with special characters  (opt-f, 
> opt-;) in the folder's name.
>
> The second download worked once but then I quit Rev and moved the Rev 
> app folder into another named Rev 2.5 RC1 ?? This generated the 
> xmlerr.  However, when Rev is out on the desktop OR if the folder it 
> is in is named  "Rev 2.5 RC1 Folder,"  then the dox work. They 
> consistently do NOT  work if Rev is inside a folder named Rev 2.5 RC1 
> ??
>
> Can anyone confirm this? If so, I will bugzilla it, if only so that 
> users can be warned not to use special characters in path leading to 
> the Rev app.
>
> M

From kevin at runrev.com  Sat Aug 28 08:27:29 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 13:27:29 +0100
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040828021824.02d21740@mail.tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BD5638C1.3EE2%kevin@runrev.com>

On 28/8/04 2:28 am, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> No, in fact that's outright common sense. Introducing changes to software
> carries a risk of unintended consequences - even with the best automated
> testing methods around, you can't afford to risk making unnecessary changes
> at the last minute.

Right.  One example might be making a last minute minor fix to the player
that has the result that it no longer loads on startup.  This is exactly
*why* we won't be making minor fixes to the release candidate.  We will be
fixing the player issue however :)

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Sat Aug 28 09:14:02 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:14:02 +0200
Subject: link between standalone and doc on windows
In-Reply-To: <24.5f100a52.2e61af79@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2156985B-F8F4-11D8-9692-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour Jean Paul

I found an old thread about this problem in the list

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-February/ 
013341.html
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-February/ 
013360.html

Hope it helps

Thierry

On Saturday, Aug 28, 2004, at 11:50 Europe/Paris,  
Jeanpaulpoccard at aol.com wrote:

> My standalone creates its own docs which extension is ".hti"
>
> On MacOS
>    no problem,
>
> On windows
>    The problem arises when I try to display sevral docs by  
> doublecliking on
> their icon from the desktop.
>
>
> A double click on a doc icon lauches the standalone and a doc window is
> displayed.
> but   what   happens if I doubleclick on another doc icon   ?
> I expect   the standalone to display a second doc window.
> In facts, Windows lauches once more the standalone, and the two  
> standalones
> coexist in the memory.
> How can I obtain on windows the same behavior as on MacOs, only one
> standalone managing any doc opened from the desktop ?
> Thank you for your help
> Cordialement
> Jean-Paul
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sat Aug 28 09:28:55 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 09:28:55 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1  [bug# 1962 still broken]
Message-ID: <OF703434F6.0041D843-ON85256EFE.00492384@sealedair.com>

Last night, 08/27/2004 at 11:12 PM, I, Roger Eller 
<roger.e.eller at sealedair.com> wrote:
> Rev Online still fails from behind our corporate firewall.
> Why doesn't it prompt for firewall authentication
> like all other internet applications?

Actually, I would be happy if there was a preference item for firewall 
username/password if this is easier for the RunRev team to do. I have made 
it work by inserting  my "user:pass@" into the URL field of Rev Online, 
but I want it to be used (but not shown in the URL).

Thanks.
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 28 09:44:47 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 09:44:47 -0400
Subject: Documentation in 2.5 - xmlerr resolved
In-Reply-To: <5FBCB700-F8E1-11D8-9132-000A95BD9FE2@free.fr>
References: <20040828031046.C58E4930116@mail.runrev.com>
	<5FBCB700-F8E1-11D8-9132-000A95BD9FE2@free.fr>
Message-ID: <6D2A7D44-F8F8-11D8-9203-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Thanks. I bugzilla'd it.

M
On Aug 28, 2004, at 6:59 AM, Christian Brossier wrote:

> I obtained the same result with Rev 2.5B2 and Rev 2.5RC1, and (french) 
> Mac OS X 10.3.5 :
>
> - Revolution in its folder "Revolution 2.5RC1" on the folder : no 
> problem, the menuItem "Topics" is OK, and gives a lot of subjects ;
>
> - the same folder in a folder the name of which is : R?volut?on ?" ( 3 
> special characters : ?, ?, ?) : I get the bug, the menuItem "Topics" 
> gives the xmlerr indication.
>
> Christian Brossier


From themacguy at macosx.com  Sat Aug 28 09:57:34 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 07:57:34 -0600
Subject: Bug #2087 - an enhancement request, "PRINT@"
Message-ID: <BD55EB6E.25A2%themacguy@macosx.com>

I'll respectfully ask that you (all) take a look at Bugzilla item #2087 and
decide if it deserving of your vote. It's an enhancement, not a bug.

Short description:

PRINT [(font[size]] @ X,Y "text to print" [@ X,Y "more text"]

where the user may optionally specify a font (and size), a starting pixel
location on the page horizontally and vertically, and then the actual text
(which could be a field reference). Additional references to location and
text are optional. The command would be used between an "open printing" and
"close printing" to build a report (most likely a columnar report).

Thanks,
Barry



From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Sat Aug 28 10:42:37 2004
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:42:37 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 1
In-Reply-To: <BD5575D5.3E34%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD56121D.2DC0%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

The way 2.5 beta was taking forever to access a mysql database when using
the linked controls is now fixed. I didn't even have a chance to make a bug
report.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Aug 28 13:21:08 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:21:08 -0500
Subject: Windows printing
Message-ID: <4130BF04.3000104@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm getting some weird and frustrating results when printing on Windows 
XP. I have a report that collects data and places it into two fields on 
a card in a printing stack. The two fields are next to each other, both 
are the length of the printing stack, and they simulate a 2-column 
printout. On screen it looks fine. The printing stack has its 
formatForPrinting set to true.

My script fills both fields, prints the card, prints a break, then 
repeats until the data is gone.

Depending partly on the font I use and partly on something I can't 
imagine, printouts are scrambled. Sometimes only one word prints per 
line, which makes Windows think a 7 page printout is about 1200 pages. 
Other times only hex gibberish is printed. Other times, the bottom third 
of the page is left empty and then a blank page prints instead after 
every printed one (i.e., two-thirds of page 1 prints, the a blank sheet, 
then two-thirds of page 2 prints, then a blank sheet, etc.)

We have tried different printer drivers with various results, but none 
of them are entirely correct.

This is making me crazy. Does anyone have suggestions? I know I could 
probably format the pages in html and print from a web browser but we 
don't want to.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Sat Aug 28 13:13:15 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:13:15 +0200
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
Message-ID: <a06110404bd566da2863e@[141.89.100.235]>

>I'm getting ready to have some time available to enhance RevZilla, and want
>to make sure that I am adding things in the order that people will most want
>them. The current version is 1.1.2, and I have a 1.1.3 that hasn't been
>released yet, but has the following additions:
>
>- Added support for Firefox to the OS X browser list
>- Added info about trying to use AOL with RevZilla
>- A few cosmetic adjustments
>
>So for those of you who use RevZilla, can you please let me know what would
>be your top 2 features you'd like to see added? Based on feedback, that will
>allow me to determine which is most needed by the Rev community.
>
>Thanks,

My top feature would be to make it compatible with MetaCard.

Robert

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug 28 13:44:16 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:44:16 -0500
Subject: RevZilla - What Should Be Done Next?
In-Reply-To: <a06110404bd566da2863e@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <BD562EA0.4A2A%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/28/04 12:13 PM, "Robert Brenstein" <rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de> wrote:

>> I'm getting ready to have some time available to enhance RevZilla, and want
>> to make sure that I am adding things in the order that people will most want
>> them. The current version is 1.1.2, and I have a 1.1.3 that hasn't been
>> released yet, but has the following additions:
>> 
>> - Added support for Firefox to the OS X browser list
>> - Added info about trying to use AOL with RevZilla
>> - A few cosmetic adjustments
>> 
>> So for those of you who use RevZilla, can you please let me know what would
>> be your top 2 features you'd like to see added? Based on feedback, that will
>> allow me to determine which is most needed by the Rev community.
>> 
>> Thanks,
> 
> My top feature would be to make it compatible with MetaCard.

Already on my list... :-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Aug 28 14:04:01 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 20:04:01 +0200
Subject: Windows printing
In-Reply-To: <4130BF04.3000104@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4130BF04.3000104@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <A3F8CC6C-F91C-11D8-9E32-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Jacque,

Did you test in setting the windows specific properties "set the 
formatForPrinting of stack to {true | false}" to true ?

Le 28 ao?t 04, ? 19:21, J. Landman Gay a ?crit :

> I'm getting some weird and frustrating results when printing on 
> Windows XP. I have a report that collects data and places it into two 
> fields on a card in a printing stack. The two fields are next to each 
> other, both are the length of the printing stack, and they simulate a 
> 2-column printout. On screen it looks fine. The printing stack has its 
> formatForPrinting set to true.
>
> My script fills both fields, prints the card, prints a break, then 
> repeats until the data is gone.
>
> Depending partly on the font I use and partly on something I can't 
> imagine, printouts are scrambled. Sometimes only one word prints per 
> line, which makes Windows think a 7 page printout is about 1200 pages. 
> Other times only hex gibberish is printed. Other times, the bottom 
> third of the page is left empty and then a blank page prints instead 
> after every printed one (i.e., two-thirds of page 1 prints, the a 
> blank sheet, then two-thirds of page 2 prints, then a blank sheet, 
> etc.)
>
> We have tried different printer drivers with various results, but none 
> of them are entirely correct.
>
> This is making me crazy. Does anyone have suggestions? I know I could 
> probably format the pages in html and print from a web browser but we 
> don't want to.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Kind Regards, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Aug 28 14:25:04 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 13:25:04 -0500
Subject: Windows printing
In-Reply-To: <A3F8CC6C-F91C-11D8-9E32-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
References: <4130BF04.3000104@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A3F8CC6C-F91C-11D8-9E32-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <4130CE00.9040306@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/28/04 1:04 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

 > Jacque,
 >
 > Did you test in setting the windows specific properties "set the
 > formatForPrinting of stack to {true | false}" to true ?

Yes. It is set to true. I'm at a loss. The oddest thing is how much the 
printout varies depending on the font the fields are set to. They are 
all wrong though, no matter what the font is.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Sat Aug 28 15:33:49 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:33:49 -0400
Subject: Bug #2087 - an enhancement request, "PRINT@"
In-Reply-To: <BD55EB6E.25A2%themacguy@macosx.com>
References: <BD55EB6E.25A2%themacguy@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <2FCA16AE-F929-11D8-8AB6-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

I quite agree, and if anyone is interested in even more, I have posted 
bug #2089 as a companion request for enhancement, for line drawing on 
the page, and for page breaks (to extend to additional pages).

On Aug 28, 2004, at 9:57 AM, Barry Levine wrote:

> I'll respectfully ask that you (all) take a look at Bugzilla item 
> #2087 and
> decide if it deserving of your vote. It's an enhancement, not a bug.
>
> Short description:
>
> PRINT [(font[size]] @ X,Y "text to print" [@ X,Y "more text"]
>
> where the user may optionally specify a font (and size), a starting 
> pixel
> location on the page horizontally and vertically, and then the actual 
> text
> (which could be a field reference). Additional references to location 
> and
> text are optional. The command would be used between an "open 
> printing" and
> "close printing" to build a report (most likely a columnar report).
>
> Thanks,
> Barry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



___________________________________________________________
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10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
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From themacguy at macosx.com  Sat Aug 28 15:45:15 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 13:45:15 -0600
Subject: Table Object in 2.5RC1
Message-ID: <BD563CEB.25AF%themacguy@macosx.com>

There's a world of improvement in the table object (compared to 2.2).
However, there's strange behavior and a serious lack of controls that still
render it useless:

Tab'ing or return'ing (or right-/down-arrowing, respectively) ADDS cells to
the grid. While these are the correct keys for navigation, that ruins the
grid (and, therefore, ruins the data contained therein). There absolutely
needs to be the ability to specify the grid-size as properties (x rows high
by x columns wide). Transcript code needs to be available to expand and
contract the grid on the fly.

"returnInField" is non-functional in this object so I can't trap for the
keystroke. How would I even know where the active cell is even if I could
trap for a "return" at the bottom of my grid (to prevent add'l rows from
being generated)?

Bug: Enter text into the grid using the Contents tab of the Inspector. That
text is displayed in the grid but is ignored (and not displayed) when the
cell becomes active. Entering text in that cell overwrites the original text
(which is expected). So either the Content tab in that object has a
disconnect with Browse mode or that tab shouldn't be there and was included
erroneously.

Frankly, I'm at a loss to understand the purpose of this object except as a
"look but don't touch" display of data. If that is its purpose, why provide
any Browse mode editing capabilities at all?

What's wrong with the RB grid object? I know it wasn't invented at Rev but
why can't its functionality simply be copied? It has the required feature
set down pat; there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

I'll file an "enhancement" Bugzilla report as this object obviously has no
real feature set to which one might direct a "bug" report as something being
"wrong"; it's features are all just missing.

Regards,
Barry



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Aug 28 15:49:02 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:49:02 -0700
Subject: Bug #2087 - an enhancement request, "PRINT@"
In-Reply-To: <2FCA16AE-F929-11D8-8AB6-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
References: <BD55EB6E.25A2%themacguy@macosx.com>
	<2FCA16AE-F929-11D8-8AB6-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <4130E1AE.3080905@fourthworld.com>

Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
> I quite agree, and if anyone is interested in even more, I have posted 
> bug #2089 as a companion request for enhancement, for line drawing on 
> the page, and for page breaks (to extend to additional pages).
> 
> On Aug 28, 2004, at 9:57 AM, Barry Levine wrote:
> 
>> I'll respectfully ask that you (all) take a look at Bugzilla item 
>> #2087 and
>> decide if it deserving of your vote. It's an enhancement, not a bug.
>>
>> Short description:
>>
>> PRINT [(font[size]] @ X,Y "text to print" [@ X,Y "more text"]
>>
>> where the user may optionally specify a font (and size), a starting pixel
>> location on the page horizontally and vertically, and then the actual 
>> text
>> (which could be a field reference). Additional references to location and
>> text are optional. The command would be used between an "open 
>> printing" and
>> "close printing" to build a report (most likely a columnar report).

What are the advantages of creating an alternate way to draw text 
containers and graphic primitives over the current object-based methods?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Sat Aug 28 16:01:17 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:01:17 -0400
Subject: Bug #2087 - an enhancement request, "PRINT@"
In-Reply-To: <4130E1AE.3080905@fourthworld.com>
References: <BD55EB6E.25A2%themacguy@macosx.com>
	<2FCA16AE-F929-11D8-8AB6-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<4130E1AE.3080905@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <05BD44D2-F92D-11D8-8AB6-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

Greater control over position on the page; this is made more 
significant when considering the "PRINT @" command suggested here, 
since it would allow for more precise underlining of headers and so 
forth (even if the PRINT @ has underlining, you would be underlining 
the text, not placing a separator for the header itself).

Plus I have extreme difficulty figuring out how to effectively use the 
current printing options; I'd be more inclined in some cases to just 
generate postscript code and feed it to the "lp" command, if there was 
an "lp" or "lpr" with a PostScript interpreter under Windows, which I 
must (unfortunately) support...   I guess I could just list Ghostscript 
as a system requirement ;-)

I guess I'm still too used to working with Pascal and Java.  Still 
adjusting to Rev and Transcript.  Basically impressive, but some things 
do seem to be missing, particularly when it comes to printing.  The 
suggested text and line primitives would be more in line with what I'm 
used to, and provide somewhat more precise control over page contents.


On Aug 28, 2004, at 3:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
>> I quite agree, and if anyone is interested in even more, I have 
>> posted bug #2089 as a companion request for enhancement, for line 
>> drawing on the page, and for page breaks (to extend to additional 
>> pages).
>> On Aug 28, 2004, at 9:57 AM, Barry Levine wrote:
>>> I'll respectfully ask that you (all) take a look at Bugzilla item 
>>> #2087 and
>>> decide if it deserving of your vote. It's an enhancement, not a bug.
>>>
>>> Short description:
>>>
>>> PRINT [(font[size]] @ X,Y "text to print" [@ X,Y "more text"]
>>>
>>> where the user may optionally specify a font (and size), a starting 
>>> pixel
>>> location on the page horizontally and vertically, and then the 
>>> actual text
>>> (which could be a field reference). Additional references to 
>>> location and
>>> text are optional. The command would be used between an "open 
>>> printing" and
>>> "close printing" to build a report (most likely a columnar report).
>
> What are the advantages of creating an alternate way to draw text 
> containers and graphic primitives over the current object-based 
> methods?
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
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From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Aug 28 16:02:34 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:02:34 -0400
Subject: Table Object in 2.5RC1
In-Reply-To: <BD563CEB.25AF%themacguy@macosx.com>
References: <BD563CEB.25AF%themacguy@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <3382AECC-F92D-11D8-A718-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 28, 2004, at 3:45 PM, Barry Levine wrote:

> I'll file an "enhancement" Bugzilla report as this object obviously 
> has no
> real feature set to which one might direct a "bug" report as something 
> being
> "wrong"; it's features are all just missing.

#670 - why make multiple versions of the same thing? Add comments to 
670 instead.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Aug 28 17:11:11 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:11:11 -0700
Subject: Bug #2087 - an enhancement request, "PRINT@"
In-Reply-To: <05BD44D2-F92D-11D8-8AB6-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
References: <BD55EB6E.25A2%themacguy@macosx.com>
	<2FCA16AE-F929-11D8-8AB6-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
	<4130E1AE.3080905@fourthworld.com>
	<05BD44D2-F92D-11D8-8AB6-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <4130F4EF.90304@fourthworld.com>

Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:

 >> What are the advantages of creating an alternate way to draw text
 >> containers and graphic primitives over the current object-based
 >> methods?
 >
 > Greater control over position on the page; this is made more
 > significant when considering the "PRINT @" command suggested here,
 > since it would allow for more precise underlining of headers and
 > so forth (even if the PRINT @ has underlining, you would be
 > underlining the text, not placing a separator for the header itself).

Unless Rev migrates to a resolution-independent coordinate system, all 
printing would be specified in pixels, whether as objects or an 
alternative script-only solution.

 > Plus I have extreme difficulty figuring out how to effectively use the
 > current printing options....

Like most things in Rev, printing is handled in a unique manner that's 
not hard to use well once you get the hang of it.

Basically you create an invisible stack to use as a "printing port", lay 
out objects, and issue a "print card" command.

Using "open printing" before print commands and "close printing" 
afterward lets you issue multiple print commands in a single print job.

Using "open printing with dialog" presents the OS print job dialog, and 
"answer printer" brings up the OS Page Setup dialog.

Filter the Transcript Dictionary with "print" to get a list of printing 
properties which may be useful, including printScale, printPaperSize, 
printGutters, printMargins, and more.

Key to printing a multi-page block of text is the pageHeights property. 
    You put text into a field of the width you'll be printing, get the 
pageHeights of that field, and what you have is a list of integers which 
are the amount you'd need to scroll the field to advance one page's worth.

While this sort of scroll,print,repeat may seem compicated, it's not bad 
once you actually do it, and not much more complicated than what you'd 
have to do do manage multi-page columns with headers, footers, etc. with 
a PRINT @ command.

But using the existing object model to lay out printing gives you the 
full range of Rev objects to use, including vector and raster graphics 
in addition to fields, and even buttons if you need 'em.

And best of all you can do it today, without needing to wait to anyone 
to add anything to the engine.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Aug 28 18:17:45 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:17:45 -0500
Subject: Windows printing
In-Reply-To: <A3F8CC6C-F91C-11D8-9E32-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <BD566EB9.4A57%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/28/04 1:04 PM, "Pierre Sahores" <psahores at easynet.fr> wrote:


>> We have tried different printer drivers with various results, but none
>> of them are entirely correct.

I hate to ask, but did you try different *printers*? Perhaps its an anomaly
of the printer you're trying to print to?

Just a thought,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Aug 28 18:37:13 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:37:13 -0500
Subject: Windows printing
In-Reply-To: <BD566EB9.4A57%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD566EB9.4A57%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <41310919.3080300@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/28/04 5:17 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 8/28/04 1:04 PM, "Pierre Sahores" <psahores at easynet.fr> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>>We have tried different printer drivers with various results, but none
>>>of them are entirely correct.
> 
> 
> I hate to ask, but did you try different *printers*? Perhaps its an anomaly
> of the printer you're trying to print to?

Four.  Now I am getting crashes too. I don't know if that's because I'm 
on Virtual PC. I don't have time to track it down.

I seem to have better luck, at least with screen display, when the 
formatForPrinting is false. That makes sense, and is recorded in the 
docs. So I set it to false to gather and calculate how much text goes in 
each field. It looks fine on screen. But when I set the 
formatForPrinting to true just before printing the page, the text 
spreads out with one word per line and three or four empty lines between 
each word. When I go ahead and print it, I lose the text completely. My 
7 page printout has been generating hundreds of empty pages with no text 
at all.

If I leave the formatForPrinting set to false before sending to the 
printer, I get the same results. Or at least, I have been, the last hour 
or so.

This is really a pretty simple thing I'm asking Rev to do: print a page 
with 2 fields of text, repeatedly, until the data is gone. It works fine 
on Mac. I cannot get anything to print on XP. I have tried both setting 
the field fonts, and leaving the entire font hierarchy empty; neither helps.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat Aug 28 18:50:58 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:50:58 -0700
Subject: Determining stack of object nested in groups
Message-ID: <BA465B66-F944-11D8-B2DC-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

I can think of two ways to get the stack an object belongs to based on 
the long id of the object:

1) Parse the string and extract the "stack myStack" part.
2) loop that keeps getting the owner until the owner is a stack.

I couldn't find a built in property for this.  Is there one or is 
option 1 the best way to do this?


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Aug 28 18:54:51 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:54:51 -0700
Subject: Determining stack of object nested in groups
In-Reply-To: <BA465B66-F944-11D8-B2DC-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BA465B66-F944-11D8-B2DC-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <41310D3B.3040106@fourthworld.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:

> I can think of two ways to get the stack an object belongs to based on 
> the long id of the object:
> 
> 1) Parse the string and extract the "stack myStack" part.
> 2) loop that keeps getting the owner until the owner is a stack.
> 
> I couldn't find a built in property for this.  Is there one or is option 
> 1 the best way to do this?

I think so, perhaps something like:

   if ("stack "&quote&"MyStack"&quote) is in \
     the long name of the target then....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Aug 28 19:11:14 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 01:11:14 +0200
Subject: Windows printing
In-Reply-To: <41310919.3080300@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <BD566EB9.4A57%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<41310919.3080300@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <8F32AB76-F947-11D8-B9E7-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 29 ao?t 04, ? 00:37, J. Landman Gay a ?crit :

> On 8/28/04 5:17 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>
>> On 8/28/04 1:04 PM, "Pierre Sahores" <psahores at easynet.fr> wrote:
>>>> We have tried different printer drivers with various results, but 
>>>> none
>>>> of them are entirely correct.
>> I hate to ask, but did you try different *printers*? Perhaps its an 
>> anomaly
>> of the printer you're trying to print to?
>
> Four.  Now I am getting crashes too. I don't know if that's because 
> I'm on Virtual PC. I don't have time to track it down.

If that can help to see if the problem has to do with Virtual PC, just 
send the stack... I have a Vaio laptop with XP Home and a Canon inkjet 
S300 installed there ;-!
>
> I seem to have better luck, at least with screen display, when the 
> formatForPrinting is false. That makes sense, and is recorded in the 
> docs. So I set it to false to gather and calculate how much text goes 
> in each field. It looks fine on screen. But when I set the 
> formatForPrinting to true just before printing the page, the text 
> spreads out with one word per line and three or four empty lines 
> between each word. When I go ahead and print it, I lose the text 
> completely. My 7 page printout has been generating hundreds of empty 
> pages with no text at all.
>
> If I leave the formatForPrinting set to false before sending to the 
> printer, I get the same results. Or at least, I have been, the last 
> hour or so.
>
> This is really a pretty simple thing I'm asking Rev to do: print a 
> page with 2 fields of text, repeatedly, until the data is gone. It 
> works fine on Mac. I cannot get anything to print on XP. I have tried 
> both setting the field fonts, and leaving the entire font hierarchy 
> empty; neither helps.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat Aug 28 19:12:41 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:12:41 -0700
Subject: Determining stack of object nested in groups
In-Reply-To: <41310D3B.3040106@fourthworld.com>
References: <BA465B66-F944-11D8-B2DC-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<41310D3B.3040106@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C2E283B9-F947-11D8-B2DC-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 28, 2004, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> I can think of two ways to get the stack an object belongs to based 
>> on the long id of the object:
>> 1) Parse the string and extract the "stack myStack" part.
>> 2) loop that keeps getting the owner until the owner is a stack.
>> I couldn't find a built in property for this.  Is there one or is 
>> option 1 the best way to do this?
>
> I think so, perhaps something like:
>
>   if ("stack "&quote&"MyStack"&quote) is in \
>     the long name of the target then....

Good to know.  I just put together a regular expression to extract an 
unknown stack:

get matchText(long id of myObject, "(stack "&quote&".*"&quote&")$", 
tTargeStack)

This will put:

stack "Owner stack name"

into tTargetStack.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Aug 28 23:30:10 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:30:10 -0500
Subject: Windows printing
In-Reply-To: <8F32AB76-F947-11D8-B9E7-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
References: <BD566EB9.4A57%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<41310919.3080300@hyperactivesw.com>
	<8F32AB76-F947-11D8-B9E7-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <41314DC2.9040108@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/28/04 6:11 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> 
> Le 29 ao?t 04, ? 00:37, J. Landman Gay a ?crit :
> 
>> On 8/28/04 5:17 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/28/04 1:04 PM, "Pierre Sahores" <psahores at easynet.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> We have tried different printer drivers with various results, but none
>>>>> of them are entirely correct.
>>>
>>> I hate to ask, but did you try different *printers*? Perhaps its an 
>>> anomaly
>>> of the printer you're trying to print to?
>>
>>
>> Four.  Now I am getting crashes too. I don't know if that's because 
>> I'm on Virtual PC. I don't have time to track it down.
> 
> 
> If that can help to see if the problem has to do with Virtual PC, just 
> send the stack... I have a Vaio laptop with XP Home and a Canon inkjet 
> S300 installed there ;-!

Oh thank you, thank you. Will contact you in email. :)


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From katir at hindu.org  Sun Aug 29 01:08:31 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:08:31 -1000
Subject: Documentation in 2.5 - still doesn't show correct document -
	gives xmlerr
In-Reply-To: <0256A236-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<318EE98B-F87E-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<0256A236-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <78C47C7D-F979-11D8-9C52-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Actually, Dan, I bugZilla'd b1 for docs and requested the search 
*should* look inside the text. so perhaps the current behavior is due 
in part to such requests, in part because, as you say, the docs in b1 
were so badly broken as compared to 2.2 that I was desperate ;-)

At least they work now...

For a really new user, who is still not even familiar with the syntax, 
or whose grey hairs=short term memory loss ...;-0)  one needs some 
"fuzzy" logic searching..

e.g.  without the full text search, an target of "mask" with search 
pointed to the dictionary, would never turn up

export snapshot [from rect[angle] rectangle [of window windowID]] \
    to {file filePath |container} [as format] [with mask maskFile]

but... thinking... duh... well it would turn up "MaskPixmapID" and 
there we would see the associated term: "export command"

OK, maybe you are right... but its still circuitous if one has in his 
head export issues....I still like the full list, but indeed! , as you 
say, it needs to be prioritized.

An obvious and probably easy to implement algorithm: where the syntax 
commands themselves which contained the target string came on top (in 
alpha order of course) and the other's followed (in alpha order as 
well)

constantMask
MaskData
MaskPixmapID
uMask
alphaData
folders
frameCount
etc.
windowShape

Could that work?

Sivakatirswami




On Aug 27, 2004, at 1:29 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I don't see ANY value in a search that looks for text inside 
> descriptions of these commands. In the dictionary, the search out by 
> default look only for the key words themselves in the name of the 
> item, no? Or am I missing something here about how other people use 
> these things?
>
> Now, if I click on "Topics" then a full-text search probably has real 
> value. But not in the Dictionary.


From Jeanpaulpoccard at aol.com  Sun Aug 29 03:25:11 2004
From: Jeanpaulpoccard at aol.com (Jeanpaulpoccard at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 03:25:11 EDT
Subject: link between standalone and doc on windows
Message-ID: <86.148136e1.2e62ded7@aol.com>


Dans un e-mail dat? du 28/08/04 15:14:21, thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr a ?crit 
:
> I found an old thread about this problem in the list
> 
Merci mille fois,   l'aide que vous m'avez apport?e m'est tr?s utile.
cordialement,
Jean-Paul.

From nnoydb at excite.com  Sun Aug 29 03:52:08 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 03:52:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: XCMD?
Message-ID: <20040829075208.72DBB8AED5@xprdmailfe2.nwk.excite.com>



Does a XCMD loaded by the RR engine have access to all system handles created by the engine?  For example are the stdin and stdout handles in a XCMD the same stdin and stdout for RR?

 


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From nnoydb at excite.com  Sun Aug 29 03:54:24 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 03:54:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: XCMD Tutorial
Message-ID: <20040829075424.758C38AED5@xprdmailfe2.nwk.excite.com>



I have seen references reguarding a XCMD tutorial where might I download it and any necessary SDKs?


Kevin


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Sun Aug 29 04:20:13 2004
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 01:20:13 -0700
Subject: Documentation in 2.5 - still doesn't show correct document -
	gives xmlerr
In-Reply-To: <0256A236-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<318EE98B-F87E-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<0256A236-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <3FE8E1F0-F994-11D8-917B-000A95A872D6@inspiredlogic.com>

Try using Filter With instead of Search For

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com

On Aug 27, 2004, at 4:29 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Well, I get the doc to appear when I click on it, but things are worse 
> in the new RC1. Now when I do a Search for "choose", I get a huge list 
> of dictionary entries, each of which apparently includes the word 
> "choose" in its text, but the list is not in any discernible order. 
> Makes it completely useless.


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Sun Aug 29 04:21:49 2004
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 01:21:49 -0700
Subject: Documentation in 2.5
In-Reply-To: <37F5D78C-F890-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<37F5D78C-F890-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7995834E-F994-11D8-917B-000A95A872D6@inspiredlogic.com>

Try using Filter With rather than Search For. Filter looks at subjects, 
Search looks at all the text -- I think. Search for XML might be 
particularly bad if it's searching the raw files, which are XML, and 
therefore would all match.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com

On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:18 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> An even more telling case-in-point.  Try searching for "xml."  You'd 
> think this would be unique enough to provide a limited number of hits, 
> all of which have SOME relevance.  Nope. The list it generates is 59 
> screens (page downs) long and includes such irrelevant items as 
> RevSpeak (which does not have "xml" anywhere in the text of the 
> entry.)


From nnoydb at excite.com  Sun Aug 29 05:10:02 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 05:10:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: open process/wite to process
Message-ID: <20040829091002.508D83DD8@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>




If I call open process several times with executable 'a' how do I address each individual process (since the name 'a' ) it not unique?

Kevin



-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From JaysLists at triad.rr.com  Sun Aug 29 07:16:51 2004
From: JaysLists at triad.rr.com (Jay Madren)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 07:16:51 -0400
Subject: open process/wite to process
In-Reply-To: <20040829091002.508D83DD8@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIGHFGLCPMCDMJOHHEENDEAAA.JaysLists@triad.rr.com>

You can't.  In fact, the docs say "You can run only one instantiation of a
given program at one time."

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of K
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 05:10
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: open process/wite to process





If I call open process several times with executable 'a' how do I address
each individual process (since the name 'a' ) it not unique?

Kevin



-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental.
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient.
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Aug 29 08:36:41 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:36:41 +0200
Subject: strange "save" behavior
Message-ID: <143FD24E-F9B8-11D8-A9B8-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>

Hi list,

Under Mac OS X with rev 2.2 (the same with 2.5 CR1)

I have a main stack splash screen)

in the substack A :  there is a script to import a list (text file), 
create a new card in stack B and update a list in stack A
then at the end of ths script
  save stack "A"
save stack "B"

When  I do it in the IDE, Ok I quit revolution and re-launch : ok

in the standAlone
when I do : OK, I quit the standAlone and re-launch the stand alone : 
nothing is saved as I never did nothing...

More, in the standAlone I have a shutdownrequest script which asks to 
"save" the work with which I agree, but nada...nothing is saved

what happens ??
thank you for your help.


Amicalement.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 29 08:40:16 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 08:40:16 -0400
Subject: Documentation in 2.5
In-Reply-To: <7995834E-F994-11D8-917B-000A95A872D6@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<37F5D78C-F890-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<7995834E-F994-11D8-917B-000A95A872D6@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <94284088-F9B8-11D8-8DA6-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Thanks!! That did the trick--and explained mind-boggling behavior.  Now 
searching the dox isn't a complete disaster ;-)


On Aug 29, 2004, at 4:21 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> Try using Filter With rather than Search For. Filter looks at 
> subjects, Search looks at all the text -- I think. Search for XML 
> might be particularly bad if it's searching the raw files, which are 
> XML, and therefore would all match.
>
> regards,
>
> Geoff Canyon
> gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com
>
> On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:18 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> An even more telling case-in-point.  Try searching for "xml."  You'd 
>> think this would be unique enough to provide a limited number of 
>> hits, all of which have SOME relevance.  Nope. The list it generates 
>> is 59 screens (page downs) long and includes such irrelevant items as 
>> RevSpeak (which does not have "xml" anywhere in the text of the 
>> entry.)
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug 29 08:48:20 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:48:20 +0200
Subject: strange "save" behavior
In-Reply-To: <143FD24E-F9B8-11D8-A9B8-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
References: <143FD24E-F9B8-11D8-A9B8-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <B4D363EC-F9B9-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bon jour Yves,

> Hi list,
>
> Under Mac OS X with rev 2.2 (the same with 2.5 CR1)
> I have a main stack splash screen)
> in the substack A :

If "A" and "B" are substacks of your "main stack splash screen" then 
this is the explanation!

Then "A" and "B" are part of the standalone and cannot be saved...

Or do you mean something different?

> there is a script to import a list (text file), create a new card in 
> stack B and update a list in stack A
> then at the end of ths script
>  save stack "A"
> save stack "B"
>
> When  I do it in the IDE, Ok I quit revolution and re-launch : ok
>
> in the standAlone
> when I do : OK, I quit the standAlone and re-launch the stand alone : 
> nothing is saved as I never did nothing...
>
> More, in the standAlone I have a shutdownrequest script which asks to 
> "save" the work with
> which I agree, but nada...nothing is saved
>
> what happens ??

Sorry, no idea (from the distance ;-)

> thank you for your help.
>
>
> Amicalement.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From jimlyons at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 29 09:11:31 2004
From: jimlyons at earthlink.net (Jim Lyons)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 09:11:31 -0400
Subject: Determining stack of object nested in groups
In-Reply-To: <20040829072241.4D0329300BF@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040829072241.4D0329300BF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <F19FC2E4-F9BC-11D8-B947-000A95893982@earthlink.net>

On Aug 29, 2004, at 3:22 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> I just put together a regular expression to extract an
> unknown stack:
>
> get matchText(long id of myObject, "(stack "&quote&".*"&quote&")$",
> tTargeStack)
>
> This will put:
>
> stack "Owner stack name"
>
> into tTargetStack.

Since a quoted string is one "word" in Transcript and since the stack 
is always the last component of the long id, you may also use:

word -2 to -1 of the long id of myObject

Jim Lyons


From depstein at att.net  Sun Aug 29 09:18:26 2004
From: depstein at att.net (depstein at att.net)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:18:26 +0000
Subject: Windows Printing
Message-ID: <082920041318.25076.4131D7A1000EED46000061F4216028106002070A9B9C9F0A0B@att.net>

Jacqueline Landman Gay wrote of Windows printing problems:

> The printing stack has its 
> formatForPrinting set to true.
> 
> My script fills both fields, prints the card, prints a break, then 
> repeats until the data is gone.

The documentation for "formatForPrinting" warns us never to edit a field with its formatForPrinting set to true.  A script that "fills both fields" is editing a field with formatForPrinting set to true.

I experienced the symptoms you described, plus the program frequently simply quitting, while trying to print in Windows using Metacard 2.5.  I believe I have now remedied the problem by having my script repeatedly call this command:

on ffp whether
  set the formatForPrinting of stack <myPrintLayoutStack> to whether
end ffp

FormatForPrinting needs to be FALSE before the script changes a field's content (including filling it in the first place), and it needs to be TRUE before you try to determine what changes are needed based on how the text fits in the space available (and before you print).  For example, here's handler I use to determine what text doesn't fit in a field and needs to be moved to the next column or page:

function extraText f -- returns the htmlText that overflows size of fld f
  ffp true -- SO THAT FORMATTEDHEIGHT WILL BE PROPERLY CALCULATED
  repeat with c = 1 to length(fld f)
    if the formattedHeight of char 1 to c of fld f > the height of fld f then
      put the htmlText of char c to -1 of fld f into myHtml
      ffp false -- BECAUSE I'M ABOUT THE CHANGE THE CONTENT OF FLD F
      delete char c to -1 of fld f
      return myHtml
    end if
  end repeat
  ffp false -- READY FOR FURTHER EDITS OF FLD F
  return empty
end extraText

Just before you print, set ffp true again.  Somewhere (but not in Rev docs, I think) I read advice suggesting a further precaution:  close and open the stack and then set formatForPrinting to true.  So I added this just before printing:

    set the destroyStack of stack <myPrintLayoutStack> to true
    save stack <myPrintLayoutStack>
    close stack <myPrintLayoutStack>
    open stack <myPrintLayoutStack>
    ffp true

This last bit seems a littler superstitious, but since I made these fixes a couple of weeks ago my Windows printing has worked properly.

I hope this will help with your difficulties.

David Epstein

From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Sun Aug 29 10:00:53 2004
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:00:53 +0200
Subject: Bug #2087 - an enhancement request, "PRINT@"
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040829154703.01d2e7b8@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:33:49 -0400, "Frank D. Engel, Jr." 
<fde101 at fjrhome.net> wrote:

>Message: 6
>Date:
>From:
>Subject:
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <2FCA16AE-F929-11D8-8AB6-0050E4BA750F at fjrhome.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>I quite agree [with Barry Levine], and if anyone is interested in even 
>more, I have posted
>bug #2089 as a companion request for enhancement, for line drawing on
>the page, and for page breaks (to extend to additional pages).

With all this renewed interest in printing, I hope others will agree that 
we should know more about the printer and the size and orientation of the 
paper we're printing on: I respectfully suggest you vote for Bug #1619.

Graham


---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From mark at maseurope.net  Sun Aug 29 10:27:30 2004
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:27:30 +0100
Subject: Aargh printing
In-Reply-To: <20040829072241.4D0329300BF@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040829072241.4D0329300BF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8F15FA56-F9C7-11D8-9B0F-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>

I'm having difficulty with a printing situation...

Rev 2.2.1,  Mac OS 10.3.4

I have a field containing columns of data, formatted by script using 
spaces... the textFont of the field is set to 9 point Monaco, so fixed 
width, to keep the columns straight.

Using revPrintField, the result on paper is larger (I'd say 10 point) 
and the the font, even though clearly still monaco, is clearly not 
fixed width...the columns are now 'wavy'.

Resetting the fontSize of the field before printing, and resetting 
again, afterwards, like this :

on doPrinting
   set the textSize of fld "pList" to 8
   set the printMargins to "30,30,30,30"
   revShowPrintDialog false,true
   if the result is "Cancel" then exit to top
   revPrintField the name of fld "pList"
   set the textSize of fld "pList" to 9
end doPrinting

solves the size problem, but the columns are still wavy.

Copying the text into textEdit and printing from there solves the wavy 
columns problem, but the fontSize is now reduced to 8 point. (Typing 
directly into textEdit and printing seems to be fine...)

Simply printing the card, with it's controls and everything (which I 
don't want), shows the columns nice and straight, but the font size is 
now even bigger, at 12 points, I'd say.

Printing to a PDF shows all the same problems, so I don't think it's 
the printer (an HP5552).

Any ideas anyone?

Thanks,

Mark


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Aug 29 10:29:48 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:29:48 +0200
Subject: strange "save" behavior
In-Reply-To: <B4D363EC-F9B9-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <143FD24E-F9B8-11D8-A9B8-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<B4D363EC-F9B9-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <E1A6FBAF-F9C7-11D8-AFA5-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>


Le 29-ao?t-04, ? 14:48, Klaus Major a ?crit :

> Bon jour Yves,
>
>> Hi list,
>>
>> Under Mac OS X with rev 2.2 (the same with 2.5 CR1)
>> I have a main stack splash screen)
>> in the substack A :
>
> If "A" and "B" are substacks of your "main stack splash screen" then 
> this is the explanation!
>
> Then "A" and "B" are part of the standalone and cannot be saved...
>
> Or do you mean something different?
>


the A and B are substacks of the mainstack !
How can I do otherwise ??



Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be

From Meitnik at aol.com  Sun Aug 29 10:41:04 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:41:04 EDT
Subject: dragdrop in windows 98se, or other win32s...
Message-ID: <12e.4a4ecaa5.2e634500@aol.com>

Hi,

I have dragdrop code that works fine on mac 10.3.4, but breaks on win98se. 
Under win98se, when I start to drag the selection, the selection gets deselected 
but if I continue dragging towards the other field on another stack, and drop 
it, the selection with its addtional info via scripting is indeed placed in 
the target field. I am cluess to whats going on. Anyone else seen this 
deselecting at the start of a drag under win98se??

2.5RC1

Thanks
Andrew

From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug 29 10:49:38 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:49:38 +0200
Subject: strange "save" behavior
In-Reply-To: <E1A6FBAF-F9C7-11D8-AFA5-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
References: <143FD24E-F9B8-11D8-A9B8-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<B4D363EC-F9B9-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<E1A6FBAF-F9C7-11D8-AFA5-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <A7178804-F9CA-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bon jour Yves,

>>> Hi list,
>>>
>>> Under Mac OS X with rev 2.2 (the same with 2.5 CR1)
>>> I have a main stack splash screen)
>>> in the substack A :
>> If "A" and "B" are substacks of your "main stack splash screen" then 
>> this is the explanation!
>> Then "A" and "B" are part of the standalone and cannot be saved...
>> Or do you mean something different?
> the A and B are substacks of the mainstack !
> How can I do otherwise ??

Make them separate (main) stacks OR check "Move substacks to individual 
stackfiles"
in the "Standalone Builder".

Hope this helps...

> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Aug 29 10:49:51 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:49:51 +0200
Subject: strange "save" behavior
In-Reply-To: <B4D363EC-F9B9-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <143FD24E-F9B8-11D8-A9B8-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<B4D363EC-F9B9-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <AEC68380-F9CA-11D8-A319-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>


Le 29-ao?t-04, ? 14:48, Klaus Major a ?crit :

> Bon jour Yves,
>
>>

> If "A" and "B" are substacks of your "main stack splash screen" then 
> this is the explanation!
>
> Then "A" and "B" are part of the standalone and cannot be saved...
>
> Or do you mean something different?
>

I'm a "stupid" boy... I forgot to make the substacks A and B individual 
stackfiles in the application settings !!!!

Thank you Klaus, once again you save me better than I save my own 
substacks !!



Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be

From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug 29 11:15:31 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:15:31 +0200
Subject: strange "save" behavior
In-Reply-To: <AEC68380-F9CA-11D8-A319-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
References: <143FD24E-F9B8-11D8-A9B8-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
	<B4D363EC-F9B9-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<AEC68380-F9CA-11D8-A319-000D93677F1E@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <44987BC8-F9CE-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bon jour Yves,

>> If "A" and "B" are substacks of your "main stack splash screen" then 
>> this is the explanation!
>> Then "A" and "B" are part of the standalone and cannot be saved...
>> Or do you mean something different?
> I'm a "stupid" boy... I forgot to make the substacks A and B 
> individual stackfiles in the application settings !!!!

Please don't start to flagellate yourself :-D

> Thank you Klaus, once again you save me better than I save my own 
> substacks !!

A votre service, monsieur!

> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be

Au revoir, mon ami...

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Sun Aug 29 11:38:24 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:38:24 +0200
Subject: Why is my animation so slow on Win XP ?
Message-ID: <4131F870.605DEA32@Club-Internet.fr>

Hi list,

I have a stack that begins with a (rather complex)
800x600 animation : controls moving around the
screen, blendlevel of various images (gifs & pngs
with transparency) changing slowly, etc...
The whole thing is controled by messages being
sent to the card 20 times per second
(send "next_frame" to this cd in 0.02 second).

Everything runs fine & smoothly on MacOS 9.
but on Win XP, it gets 5 to 10 times slower...
The app seems to have especially hard times
with modifying blendlevel of gifs or pngs...

The most surprising part of the story is that the
Mac is a G3 / 300 MHz, while the Win box runs
at 1.5 GHz...
Another surprising point is that at times (roughly
1 time out of 10) the Win stack runs OK (as fast
as the Mac version)...

I'm somewhat puzzled, as I'm used to the fact
that standalones run usually significantly faster
& smoother on Win...

Any idea ?

Thanks,
JB


From djgrumble at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 29 12:50:07 2004
From: djgrumble at hotmail.com (DJ Grumble)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:50:07 +0000
Subject: Preloading sounds for a Player?
Message-ID: <BAY18-F24cMd5NfOIfC00033566@hotmail.com>

hi,

when I try to play two player objects simultaneously, there always is a 
delay between when they start. i heard you could 'preload' the data so this 
won't happen? any help would be appreciated.

thanks
grumble

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 29 12:54:24 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 09:54:24 -0700
Subject: Preloading sounds for a Player?
In-Reply-To: <BAY18-F24cMd5NfOIfC00033566@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <14D23F9E-F9DC-11D8-BFBA-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Sunday, August 29, 2004, at 09:50 AM, DJ Grumble wrote:

> hi,
>
> when I try to play two player objects simultaneously, there always is 
> a delay between when they start. i heard you could 'preload' the data 
> so this won't happen? any help would be appreciated.
>
> thanks
> grumble

check out the load command in the docs:
"Use the load command to pre-fetch a file from the Internet in order to 
speed up access when using it in an expression with the URL keyword."

Mark


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Aug 29 13:08:09 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:08:09 -0700
Subject: open process/wite to process
In-Reply-To: <20040829091002.508D83DD8@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040829091002.508D83DD8@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <1193645161.20040829100809@ahsoftware.net>

K-

"open process" returns a processID. You can keep track of these
yourself and you can see the open ones with openProcessIDs.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Aug 29 13:33:30 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 12:33:30 -0500
Subject: Windows Printing
In-Reply-To: <082920041318.25076.4131D7A1000EED46000061F4216028106002070A9B9C9F0A0B@att.net>
References: <082920041318.25076.4131D7A1000EED46000061F4216028106002070A9B9C9F0A0B@att.net>
Message-ID: <4132136A.5060302@hyperactivesw.com>

David, thanks for the very helpful and informative post. It sounds like 
you have addressed the same problems I'm having. I do toggle the 
formatForPrinting as you describe, but I did not do the close-and-open 
business before the actual printing. I may try that. Maybe it isn't so 
superstitious after all. I have also had the unexplained 
termination/crashing problems you describe.

With Pierre's generous help, I've found that for this particular print 
job I may not need to set the formatForPrinting at all; leaving it false 
appears to work okay. This is because the columns I am printing are 
gennerously wide and there is no text wrap, so it doesn't matter whether 
we are using the printer fonts or not. To keep things simple, I may just 
leave out the formatForPrinting setting entirely.

It seems to me this printing business could be improved, especially on 
Windows machines. Thanks again for your help. I will definitely save 
your scripts for reference.


On 8/29/04 8:18 AM, depstein at att.net wrote:

> Jacqueline Landman Gay wrote of Windows printing problems:
> 
> 
>>The printing stack has its 
>>formatForPrinting set to true.
>>
>>My script fills both fields, prints the card, prints a break, then 
>>repeats until the data is gone.
> 
> 
> The documentation for "formatForPrinting" warns us never to edit a field with its formatForPrinting set to true.  A script that "fills both fields" is editing a field with formatForPrinting set to true.
> 
> I experienced the symptoms you described, plus the program frequently simply quitting, while trying to print in Windows using Metacard 2.5.  I believe I have now remedied the problem by having my script repeatedly call this command:
> 
> on ffp whether
>   set the formatForPrinting of stack <myPrintLayoutStack> to whether
> end ffp
> 
> FormatForPrinting needs to be FALSE before the script changes a field's content (including filling it in the first place), and it needs to be TRUE before you try to determine what changes are needed based on how the text fits in the space available (and before you print).  For example, here's handler I use to determine what text doesn't fit in a field and needs to be moved to the next column or page:
> 
> function extraText f -- returns the htmlText that overflows size of fld f
>   ffp true -- SO THAT FORMATTEDHEIGHT WILL BE PROPERLY CALCULATED
>   repeat with c = 1 to length(fld f)
>     if the formattedHeight of char 1 to c of fld f > the height of fld f then
>       put the htmlText of char c to -1 of fld f into myHtml
>       ffp false -- BECAUSE I'M ABOUT THE CHANGE THE CONTENT OF FLD F
>       delete char c to -1 of fld f
>       return myHtml
>     end if
>   end repeat
>   ffp false -- READY FOR FURTHER EDITS OF FLD F
>   return empty
> end extraText
> 
> Just before you print, set ffp true again.  Somewhere (but not in Rev docs, I think) I read advice suggesting a further precaution:  close and open the stack and then set formatForPrinting to true.  So I added this just before printing:
> 
>     set the destroyStack of stack <myPrintLayoutStack> to true
>     save stack <myPrintLayoutStack>
>     close stack <myPrintLayoutStack>
>     open stack <myPrintLayoutStack>
>     ffp true
> 
> This last bit seems a littler superstitious, but since I made these fixes a couple of weeks ago my Windows printing has worked properly.
> 
> I hope this will help with your difficulties.
> 
> David Epstein
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From nnoydb at excite.com  Sun Aug 29 13:37:21 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:37:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Externals?
Message-ID: <20040829173721.1BEB0AFA8F@xprdmailfe5.nwk.excite.com>



I am looking into creating my own externals and have a few questions.

>Are there docs specifically addressing OS X?

>Why would building for OS X be any different than *NIX flavors? The readme with the external SDK refers to using ResEdit is this necessary for OS X?  I have built many libs for OS X and bever found this necessary.

>There is little documentation with the External SDK where can I find further information?

>Examples for OS X and Linux? 

>A step by step tutorial?

Kevin

-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sun Aug 29 13:21:34 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:21:34 -0700
Subject: Determining stack of object nested in groups
In-Reply-To: <F19FC2E4-F9BC-11D8-B947-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
References: <20040829072241.4D0329300BF@mail.runrev.com>
	<F19FC2E4-F9BC-11D8-B947-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E03C0E2A-F9DF-11D8-92C7-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 29, 2004, at 6:11 AM, Jim Lyons wrote:
>
> Since a quoted string is one "word" in Transcript and since the stack 
> is always the last component of the long id, you may also use:
>
> word -2 to -1 of the long id of myObject

Thanks for the info Jim.  This is much faster than the regex and maybe 
just a little easier to read ;-).

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sun Aug 29 13:31:26 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:31:26 -0700
Subject: Externals?
In-Reply-To: <20040829173721.1BEB0AFA8F@xprdmailfe5.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040829173721.1BEB0AFA8F@xprdmailfe5.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <411FE61D-F9E1-11D8-92C7-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 29, 2004, at 10:37 AM, K wrote:
> I am looking into creating my own externals and have a few questions.
>
>> Are there docs specifically addressing OS X?

Not that I know of.

>> Why would building for OS X be any different than *NIX flavors? The 
>> readme with the external SDK refers to using ResEdit is this 
>> necessary for OS X?  I have built many libs for OS X and bever found 
>> this necessary.

You don't need ResEdit for OS X.

>> There is little documentation with the External SDK where can I find 
>> further information?

There is a tutorial that will be released with 2.5.  Mark Wieder put it 
together.  It should make getting started with externals much easier.

>> Examples for OS X and Linux?

I would take a look at some of the code of existing externals which may 
be helpful until the tutorial comes out.  Here are some links to some 
that include source code.

<http://www.mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/>
<http://www.mindlube.com/developer/revzeroconf/index.html>

>> A step by step tutorial?

see above.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Aug 29 15:28:28 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 12:28:28 -0700
Subject: Documentation in 2.5 - still doesn't show correct document -
	gives xmlerr
In-Reply-To: <3FE8E1F0-F994-11D8-917B-000A95A872D6@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <C66E9DDF-F87A-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<318EE98B-F87E-11D8-8046-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<0256A236-F881-11D8-99B6-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<3FE8E1F0-F994-11D8-917B-000A95A872D6@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <9ACA0FA2-F9F1-11D8-BF9E-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Filter with "choose" produces a no-match result in the default, 
out-of-the-box mode. If I click on "Dictionary" then filtering with 
choose does indeed produce just the choose command.

Perhaps what is needed is a way for  me to say, in essence, use the 
Dictionary as my default doc search/filter basis. With the old docs, we 
could set the page to appear when the doc window opened. It didn't 
*work*, but the idea was right! ;-)


On Aug 29, 2004, at 1:20 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> Try using Filter With instead of Search For
>
> regards,
>
> Geoff Canyon
> gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com
>
> On Aug 27, 2004, at 4:29 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> Well, I get the doc to appear when I click on it, but things are 
>> worse in the new RC1. Now when I do a Search for "choose", I get a 
>> huge list of dictionary entries, each of which apparently includes 
>> the word "choose" in its text, but the list is not in any discernible 
>> order. Makes it completely useless.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Aug 29 15:39:57 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 12:39:57 -0700
Subject: More Discoveries About Docs in 2.5
Message-ID: <351FACF8-F9F3-11D8-8373-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

I figured since I complained fairly loudly about the way the Search 
stuff works in 2.5 docs, I should balance that with a better-attitude 
post when I found something useful.

Balances the karma, ya know?

If you type in a term and select Filter With and then click on Objects 
in the toolbar of the docs window, you get a very nice, contextual 
listing of the term for which you are seeking information. Very cool.

In fact, I'm becoming convinced that if we could just set the default 
"mode" for doc searches, the new design is quite elegant. The problem 
as I see it is that it defaults to a mode where "Search for" rather 
than "Filter On" is the default setting and Topics is the default 
search location. That, it seems to me, is the most comprehensive and 
therefore (especially for newbies) the least useful of all the possible 
approaches to search. This is particularly true given that the returned 
results are not sorted in any obviously meaningful way.

But working with the docs just a bit has enabled me to find a way that 
is most comfortable and useful to me.

Oh, and BTW, the bookmark stuff is VERY helpful.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From nnoydb at excite.com  Sun Aug 29 15:40:46 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (K)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:40:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Externals?
Message-ID: <20040829194046.BFB68B6C2@xprdmailfe19.nwk.excite.com>




Since I am a Enterprise user should I be able to download the 2.5 with the tutorial?


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Sun 08/29, Trevor DeVore < lists at mangomultimedia.com > wrote:
From: Trevor DeVore [mailto: lists at mangomultimedia.com]
To: nnoydb at excite.com, use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:31:26 -0700
Subject: Re: Externals?

On Aug 29, 2004, at 10:37 AM, K wrote:<br>> I am looking into creating my own externals and have a few questions.<br>><br>>> Are there docs specifically addressing OS X?<br><br>Not that I know of.<br><br>>> Why would building for OS X be any different than *NIX flavors? The <br>>> readme with the external SDK refers to using ResEdit is this <br>>> necessary for OS X?  I have built many libs for OS X and bever found <br>>> this necessary.<br><br>You don't need ResEdit for OS X.<br><br>>> There is little documentation with the External SDK where can I find <br>>> further information?<br><br>There is a tutorial that will be released with 2.5.  Mark Wieder put it <br>together.  It should make getting started with externals much easier.<br><br>>> Examples for OS X and Linux?<br><br>I would take a look at some of the code of existing externals which may <br>be helpful until the tutorial comes out.  Here are some links to some <br>that include source code.<br><br><http://www.mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/><br><http://www.mindlube.com/developer/revzeroconf/index.html><br><br>>> A step by step tutorial?<br><br>see above.<br><br>-- <br>Trevor DeVore<br>Blue Mango Multimedia<br>trevor at mangomultimedia.com<br><br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Aug 29 15:54:44 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 12:54:44 -0700
Subject: Bookmarks Don't Work in 2.5 Docs?
Message-ID: <461DBA02-F9F5-11D8-8373-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Just after I posted my comment about how useful bookmarks are in 2.5 
docs, I did some more work with them and found they just don't seem to 
work.

Try selecting a command, adding it to a new bookmark set, then poking 
around and adding a couple of other items to the bookmark. In my 
experience, new items randomly overwrite existing items, often ending 
up in a situation where I have two of the same entries where I should 
have had three different ones.

I bugzilla'd this as 2092.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From janus005 at umn.edu  Sun Aug 29 16:45:53 2004
From: janus005 at umn.edu (Louis Janus)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:45:53 -0500
Subject: how to read value from SCALE BAR?
In-Reply-To: <461DBA02-F9F5-11D8-8373-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <461DBA02-F9F5-11D8-8373-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <a06020401bd57efa72cef@[160.94.62.55]>

This question reveals my naive state, and I know the answer is very 
obvious (once you all tell me).

I am playing with my trial version, have inserted a scrollbar of stye 
"slider". Now I'd like  to have something happen (like showing a 
different field for each value of my slider."

I used to know HyperCard fairly well, but have not made enough 
progress on Rev to decide if I want to use it for some text-based 
development I'm doing. The question ios probably too basic to be 
covered in the documentation.

Thanks in advance.

Louis
-- 
=====================================================
Louis Janus
  Less Commonly Taught Languages (LCTL) Project
  Center for Advanced Research on Language Acquisition (CARLA)
  University of Minnesota
  617 Heller Hall
  271 19th Avenue So.
  Minneapolis, MN 55455 USA
  phone: 612/624-9016; fax: 612/624-7514
-------------------------------
LCTL at umn.edu
-------------------------------
http://www.carla.umn.edu/LCTL
http://www.carla.umn.edu/about/profiles/janus.html
=====================================================

From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug 29 16:57:32 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:57:32 +0200
Subject: how to read value from SCALE BAR?
In-Reply-To: <a06020401bd57efa72cef@[160.94.62.55]>
References: <461DBA02-F9F5-11D8-8373-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<a06020401bd57efa72cef@[160.94.62.55]>
Message-ID: <0C18F60E-F9FE-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hib Louis,

> This question reveals my naive state, and I know the answer is very 
> obvious (once you all tell me).
>
> I am playing with my trial version, have inserted a scrollbar of stye 
> "slider". Now I'd like  to have something happen (like showing a 
> different field for each value of my slider."
>
> I used to know HyperCard fairly well, but have not made enough 
> progress on Rev to decide if I want to use it for some text-based 
> development I'm doing. The question ios probably too basic to be 
> covered in the documentation.

You can query "the thumbpos of sb xyz"...

thumbpos = thumbposition
sb = scrollbar

Less typing :-)

Or if you like response in "realtime" while dragging the slider,
put this into the script of the scrollbar/slider:

on scrollbardrag the_value
    put the_value into fld 1
end scrollbardrag

This message "scrollbardrag" is send continuously as long the user
drags that thing :-)

And there is one parameter "the_value" (or call it whatever you like)
that will hold the current value/thumbposition...

Hope that helps...

> Thanks in advance.
>
> Louis
> -- 
> =====================================================
> Louis Janus
>  Less Commonly Taught Languages (LCTL) Project
>  Center for Advanced Research on Language Acquisition (CARLA)
>  University of Minnesota
>  617 Heller Hall
>  271 19th Avenue So.
>  Minneapolis, MN 55455 USA
>  phone: 612/624-9016; fax: 612/624-7514
> -------------------------------
> LCTL at umn.edu
> -------------------------------
> http://www.carla.umn.edu/LCTL
> http://www.carla.umn.edu/about/profiles/janus.html

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Aug 29 17:00:24 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:00:24 +0200
Subject: how to read value from SCALE BAR? II
In-Reply-To: <0C18F60E-F9FE-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <461DBA02-F9F5-11D8-8373-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<a06020401bd57efa72cef@[160.94.62.55]>
	<0C18F60E-F9FE-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <727E9CD8-F9FE-11D8-BDF2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Louis,

> Hib Louis,

"Hib" is not a "less commoly taught language", but a simple typo :-D


Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Aug 29 17:10:43 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:10:43 +0100
Subject: Windows printing
In-Reply-To: <41310919.3080300@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <BD566EB9.4A57%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<41310919.3080300@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <E3A14365-F9FF-11D8-ABC9-000A9569F8B0@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 28 Aug 2004, at 23:37, J. Landman Gay wrote:

>
> I seem to have better luck, at least with screen display, when the 
> formatForPrinting is false. That makes sense, and is recorded in the 
> docs. So I set it to false to gather and calculate how much text goes 
> in each field. It looks fine on screen. But when I set the 
> formatForPrinting to true just before printing the page, the text 
> spreads out with one word per line and three or four empty lines 
> between each word. When I go ahead and print it, I lose the text 
> completely. My 7 page printout has been generating hundreds of empty 
> pages with no text at all.
>
> If I leave the formatForPrinting set to false before sending to the 
> printer, I get the same results. Or at least, I have been, the last 
> hour or so.
>

I found using "answer printer" *before* setting the formatForPrinting 
to true to produce more reliable results. Without doing this, I was 
getting various problems similar to what you describe. (This was with 
the 2.5 engine. Haven't tested since then.)

Dave


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sun Aug 29 16:46:40 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:46:40 -0700
Subject: Externals?
In-Reply-To: <20040829194046.BFB68B6C2@xprdmailfe19.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040829194046.BFB68B6C2@xprdmailfe19.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <87329DAA-F9FC-11D8-92C7-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>

On Aug 29, 2004, at 12:40 PM, K wrote:
>
> Since I am a Enterprise user should I be able to download the 2.5 with 
> the tutorial?

I'm not sure if it will be with the download or on the runrev website.  
I think it was said that the tutorial would be available once 2.5 was 
released.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Sun Aug 29 19:57:25 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:27:25 +0930
Subject: Documentation in 2.5 - still doesn't show correct document
	-gives xmlerr
In-Reply-To: <78C47C7D-F979-11D8-9C52-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEILEPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


Hi

Just like any other major feature overhaul there will be a few teething
problems but I think the end result will be worth the pain.

I'm starting to think that search should be moved to a separate dialog where
people can choose what parts of the document they want searched. For
example, doing much more than a syntax and example search may be overkill
for most cases. It would be nice to be able to have checkboxes indicating
which sections of the document one wanted to search.

This might also separate the search function from the filter function which
seems to cause some confusion. I doubt a change like that could or should
make 2.5 though. Perhaps 2.5.1 if there is interest/discussion on the idea.

Cheers

Monte



From themacguy at macosx.com  Sun Aug 29 21:15:46 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 19:15:46 -0600
Subject: Printing reports in Rev
In-Reply-To: <20040829072243.2024B9300D2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD57DBE2.25D6%themacguy@macosx.com>

Richard,

I do not disagree with anything you've written (as the documentation to do
such a task does not exist AFAIK. However, this leads me to ask for what
purpose the Report Builder was created? And that leads me to an observation:
Looks like Report Builder is MIA from the 2.5RC1 Tools menu (although it is
in the Tools folders). But I digress...

Neither the documentation (in 2.2 or 2.5) nor the "Learning Center" in
2.5RC1 has information about how to accomplish this. I've looked for sample
stacks at the Rev website but no luck.

As you seem to have a good handle on this, might I respectfully suggest a
small tutorial and example stack? I'll suggest a 40-card stack which should
be enough data to present on two printed pages using the invisible stack
method you mention.

BTW, it is possible that "revPrintText" is an alternate solution to my
"print@" wish. One of the code examples in the Learning Center (#41,
Printing the fields on a card) hints at this though some experimentation is
needed...(some minutes pass)...

Here's an example of the revPrintText command that seems to do much of what
my "print@" requests:

on mouseUp
  put "<p>" into theStart
  put "</p)" into theEnd
  repeat with i = 1 to 60
  -- ("60" would be the number of cards - a var)
    put "LINE " & i & " IS BEING PRINTED" into field theField
    put theStart & (the htmlText of field theField) & theEnd \
      after theCollection
  end repeat
  revShowPrintDialog true,true
  revPrintText theCollection
end mouseUp

Apparently, htmlText requires a field and can't deal with a var; "the
htmlText of theMiddle" (a variable) errors. So the "invisible printing
stack" might still be necessary if -only- to hold the current string we've
harvested from the stack data while we make it htmlText.

By the way, my test with 60 lines of data resulted in an automatic page
feed; I don't even have to keep track of this if I don't need page numbers,
headers, or footers.

However, reviewing your comments (and the docs) about the pageHeights
property bring additional enlightenment.

As usual, posting to the list and going through this Socratic discussion
yields wonderful results. Many thanks to all, especially you, Richard.

So should I kill my "print@" enhancement request? It it reinventing the
wheel?

Regards,
Barry

On 8/29/04 1:22 AM, Richard Gaskin allegedly flung into the void:

> Like most things in Rev, printing is handled in a unique manner that's
> not hard to use well once you get the hang of it.
> 
> Basically you create an invisible stack to use as a "printing port", lay
> out objects, and issue a "print card" command.
> 
> Using "open printing" before print commands and "close printing"
> afterward lets you issue multiple print commands in a single print job.
> 
> Using "open printing with dialog" presents the OS print job dialog, and
> "answer printer" brings up the OS Page Setup dialog.
> 
> Filter the Transcript Dictionary with "print" to get a list of printing
> properties which may be useful, including printScale, printPaperSize,
> printGutters, printMargins, and more.
> 
> Key to printing a multi-page block of text is the pageHeights property.
>     You put text into a field of the width you'll be printing, get the
> pageHeights of that field, and what you have is a list of integers which
> are the amount you'd need to scroll the field to advance one page's worth.
> 
> While this sort of scroll,print,repeat may seem compicated, it's not bad
> once you actually do it, and not much more complicated than what you'd
> have to do do manage multi-page columns with headers, footers, etc. with
> a PRINT @ command.
> 
> But using the existing object model to lay out printing gives you the
> full range of Rev objects to use, including vector and raster graphics
> in addition to fields, and even buttons if you need 'em.
> 
> And best of all you can do it today, without needing to wait to anyone
> to add anything to the engine.

--------------------------------------------------------
Barry Jay Levine
"The Mac Guy"

Macintosh & Windows Troubleshooting, System Engineering, Training,
Server Setup, System Upgrades and Enhancements,
Multi-platform Application Development
Backup Strategies and Implementations

On-Site service for K20, Business, Consumer

Phone/VoiceMail: 915-581-1105
            Fax: 915-581-8167
          eMail: themacguy at themacguy.info
--------------------------------------------------------



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Aug 29 21:20:15 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 18:20:15 -0700
Subject: Why is my animation so slow on Win XP ?
In-Reply-To: <4131F870.605DEA32@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <BD57CEDF.13BE7%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, jbv wrote:

> I have a stack that begins with a (rather complex)
> 800x600 animation : controls moving around the
> screen, blendlevel of various images (gifs & pngs
> with transparency) changing slowly, etc...
> The whole thing is controled by messages being
> sent to the card 20 times per second
> (send "next_frame" to this cd in 0.02 second).
> 
> Everything runs fine & smoothly on MacOS 9.
> but on Win XP, it gets 5 to 10 times slower...
> The app seems to have especially hard times
> with modifying blendlevel of gifs or pngs...
> 
> The most surprising part of the story is that the
> Mac is a G3 / 300 MHz, while the Win box runs
> at 1.5 GHz...
> Another surprising point is that at times (roughly
> 1 time out of 10) the Win stack runs OK (as fast
> as the Mac version)...
> 
> I'm somewhat puzzled, as I'm used to the fact
> that standalones run usually significantly faster
> & smoother on Win...
> 
> Any idea ?

Part of the reason may be a low end or low memory video card.  Machine
processor speed is only one of several factors when gauging a system's
capabilities --  I believe calculating blends of images is handled by the
video card.

You might try setting the XP system's display to thousands of colors, or use
a lower resolution, and see if either change makes a difference.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Sun Aug 29 21:44:00 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:44:00 -0300
Subject: A Silly Thing I Did
Message-ID: <BD580CAF.A129%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Well, I inadvertently pasted a picture in a script window.  I thought I had
the text I wanted in my script on my clipboard.  Now, every script in my
stack shows this picture and I can?t delete it.  How do I get rid of it?
Jim
-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139





From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 29 22:17:51 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides, M.D.)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:17:51 -0400
Subject: Quicktime not found??
In-Reply-To: <BD580CAF.A129%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
References: <BD580CAF.A129%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
Message-ID: <CB92114E-FA2A-11D8-92D2-0003931B4DBE@earthlink.net>

I am trying to view the first video tutorial (getting started).  After 
a period for downloading the video, I get a play button,  Clicking it 
gets me an error message saying that quicktime is needed but not 
installed. The video plays but there is only audio, no video.

I have QT 6.5.1 installed on this Mac (OS X 10.3.5) and what's more REv 
2.5 knows it's there because QTversion() yields 6.5.1

Any idea why the video won't display?

M


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 29 22:29:12 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:29:12 -0400
Subject: Quicktime not found??
In-Reply-To: <CB92114E-FA2A-11D8-92D2-0003931B4DBE@earthlink.net>
References: <BD580CAF.A129%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
	<CB92114E-FA2A-11D8-92D2-0003931B4DBE@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <61627B9D-FA2C-11D8-9917-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 29, 2004, at 10:17 PM, Marian Petrides, M.D. wrote:

> I am trying to view the first video tutorial (getting started).  After 
> a period for downloading the video, I get a play button,  Clicking it 
> gets me an error message saying that quicktime is needed but not 
> installed. The video plays but there is only audio, no video.
>
> I have QT 6.5.1 installed on this Mac (OS X 10.3.5) and what's more 
> REv 2.5 knows it's there because QTversion() yields 6.5.1
>
> Any idea why the video won't display?

Probably missing the ensharpen codec.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 29 22:37:19 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides, M.D.)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:37:19 -0400
Subject: Quicktime not found??
In-Reply-To: <61627B9D-FA2C-11D8-9917-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <BD580CAF.A129%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
	<CB92114E-FA2A-11D8-92D2-0003931B4DBE@earthlink.net>
	<61627B9D-FA2C-11D8-9917-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <83852EB7-FA2D-11D8-92D2-0003931B4DBE@earthlink.net>

well it downloaded the ensharpen encoder before it started, so I assume 
it got installed. How can I verify that it was indeed installed?

M
On Aug 29, 2004, at 10:29 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Aug 29, 2004, at 10:17 PM, Marian Petrides, M.D. wrote:
>
>> I am trying to view the first video tutorial (getting started).  
>> After a period for downloading the video, I get a play button,  
>> Clicking it gets me an error message saying that quicktime is needed 
>> but not installed. The video plays but there is only audio, no video.
>>
>> I have QT 6.5.1 installed on this Mac (OS X 10.3.5) and what's more 
>> REv 2.5 knows it's there because QTversion() yields 6.5.1
>>
>> Any idea why the video won't display?
>
> Probably missing the ensharpen codec.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Aug 29 23:21:19 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:21:19 +1000
Subject: Quicktime not found??
In-Reply-To: <83852EB7-FA2D-11D8-92D2-0003931B4DBE@earthlink.net>
References: <BD580CAF.A129%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
	<CB92114E-FA2A-11D8-92D2-0003931B4DBE@earthlink.net>
	<61627B9D-FA2C-11D8-9917-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<83852EB7-FA2D-11D8-92D2-0003931B4DBE@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A961FEDA-FA33-11D8-A644-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I found that I had to log out & in again (or restart) after installing 
the ensharpen coden. Otherwise, as you say, I got audio only. There is 
no problem installing it twice, if you aren't certain whether it is 
already installed.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 30 Aug 2004, at 12:37 pm, Marian Petrides, M.D. wrote:

> well it downloaded the ensharpen encoder before it started, so I 
> assume it got installed. How can I verify that it was indeed 
> installed?
>>
>>> I am trying to view the first video tutorial (getting started).  
>>> After a period for downloading the video, I get a play button,  
>>> Clicking it gets me an error message saying that quicktime is needed 
>>> but not installed. The video plays but there is only audio, no 
>>> video.
>>>
>>> I have QT 6.5.1 installed on this Mac (OS X 10.3.5) and what's more 
>>> REv 2.5 knows it's there because QTversion() yields 6.5.1
>>>
>>> Any idea why the video won't display?
>>
>> Probably missing the ensharpen codec.


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 29 23:23:06 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:23:06 -0400
Subject: Quicktime not found??
In-Reply-To: <83852EB7-FA2D-11D8-92D2-0003931B4DBE@earthlink.net>
References: <BD580CAF.A129%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
	<CB92114E-FA2A-11D8-92D2-0003931B4DBE@earthlink.net>
	<61627B9D-FA2C-11D8-9917-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<83852EB7-FA2D-11D8-92D2-0003931B4DBE@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E8F0CB78-FA33-11D8-9917-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 29, 2004, at 10:37 PM, Marian Petrides, M.D. wrote:

> well it downloaded the ensharpen encoder before it started, so I 
> assume it got installed. How can I verify that it was indeed 
> installed?

In my experience, you need to quit and restart Rev to get it to work.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Aug 29 23:23:40 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:23:40 +1000
Subject: A Silly Thing I Did
In-Reply-To: <BD580CAF.A129%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
References: <BD580CAF.A129%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
Message-ID: <FD24324F-FA33-11D8-A644-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> Well, I inadvertently pasted a picture in a script window.  I thought 
> I had
> the text I wanted in my script on my clipboard.  Now, every script in 
> my
> stack shows this picture and I can?t delete it.  How do I get rid of 
> it?
> Jim

I've done this myself (although not with a picture). In my case, I quit 
Rev making sure to say "Don't save" when it offered to save the script 
editor. If you are already past this stage and have already saved the 
"new improved" script editor, then there are a couple of options.

- reinstall Revolution (probably the quickest)
- use the Application Browser, show Rev UI elements in lists, find the 
script editor, find your image and delete it that way, then save the 
editor again.

Cheers,
Sarah


From themacguy at macosx.com  Sun Aug 29 23:28:45 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:28:45 -0600
Subject: Option button question
Message-ID: <BD57FB0D.25E0%themacguy@macosx.com>

I have an option button which triggers a dialog based upon the user choice.
No problem there. However, the button's title (the chosen text) is not
actually updated until the user dismisses the modal dialog. I'm sure there's
a "send..." syntax that would permit the updating of the button's text to
occur before the dialog actually is called but I'm at a loss to come up with
it.

Any assistance is appreciated.

Thanks,
Barry



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Aug 29 23:37:10 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:37:10 -0400
Subject: Option button question
In-Reply-To: <BD57FB0D.25E0%themacguy@macosx.com>
References: <BD57FB0D.25E0%themacguy@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <DFE641A0-FA35-11D8-9917-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 29, 2004, at 11:28 PM, Barry Levine wrote:

> I have an option button which triggers a dialog based upon the user 
> choice.
> No problem there. However, the button's title (the chosen text) is not
> actually updated until the user dismisses the modal dialog. I'm sure 
> there's
> a "send..." syntax that would permit the updating of the button's text 
> to
> occur before the dialog actually is called but I'm at a loss to come 
> up with
> it.

That depends how you are using it. Got a script?

Or you could try "send... in 0" which will do the send at the end of 
the handler - but if you are performing further operations based on the 
results of the dialog within the same handler, that won't work well for 
you.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Aug 29 23:42:37 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:42:37 +1000
Subject: Option button question
In-Reply-To: <BD57FB0D.25E0%themacguy@macosx.com>
References: <BD57FB0D.25E0%themacguy@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <A2E377D2-FA36-11D8-A644-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

You can explicitly set the label before calling the modal dialog
e.g.

on menuPick pChoice
   set the label of me to pChoice
   -- show dialog etc
end menuPick

Cheers,
Sarah

On 30 Aug 2004, at 1:28 pm, Barry Levine wrote:

> I have an option button which triggers a dialog based upon the user 
> choice.
> No problem there. However, the button's title (the chosen text) is not
> actually updated until the user dismisses the modal dialog. I'm sure 
> there's
> a "send..." syntax that would permit the updating of the button's text 
> to
> occur before the dialog actually is called but I'm at a loss to come 
> up with
> it.
>
> Any assistance is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Barry


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug 30 02:51:19 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:51:19 -0700
Subject: Printing reports in Rev
In-Reply-To: <BD57DBE2.25D6%themacguy@macosx.com>
References: <BD57DBE2.25D6%themacguy@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <4132CE67.8040200@fourthworld.com>

Barry Levine wrote:
> As you seem to have a good handle on this, might I respectfully suggest a
> small tutorial and example stack? I'll suggest a 40-card stack which should
> be enough data to present on two printed pages using the invisible stack
> method you mention.

I'd love to, along with one for sockets, animation, the Win registry, 
imageData, and a few hundred others.

Alas, my clients and my product plans don't allow such luxury at this 
time....

...
> Apparently, htmlText requires a field and can't deal with a var; "the
> htmlText of theMiddle" (a variable) errors. So the "invisible printing
> stack" might still be necessary if -only- to hold the current string we've
> harvested from the stack data while we make it htmlText.

Correct:  htmlText is derived from the internal binary representation of 
style runs.

It might be nice to have a function, but if the source is just plain 
text then most of what it'd be doing is just replacing returns with 
"<br>"....

> By the way, my test with 60 lines of data resulted in an automatic page
> feed; I don't even have to keep track of this if I don't need page numbers,
> headers, or footers.
> 
> However, reviewing your comments (and the docs) about the pageHeights
> property bring additional enlightenment.
> 
> As usual, posting to the list and going through this Socratic discussion
> yields wonderful results. Many thanks to all, especially you, Richard.
> 
> So should I kill my "print@" enhancement request? It it reinventing the
> wheel?

Try using objects and see how it works for you.  If you feel you can get 
what you need from them then you can withdraw the request with 
confidence at that time.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Mon Aug 30 04:09:05 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:09:05 +1000
Subject: shells win32
Message-ID: <084201c48e68$9e9a45b0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>

Two questions.

1. Is shell supported with Runtime Revolution with win32? (I assume it is )
2. Is the shell synchronous, asynchronous or interactive with RunTime
revolution?

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Aug 30 04:45:58 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:45:58 +0200
Subject: shells win32
In-Reply-To: <084201c48e68$9e9a45b0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEIGGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Hi Keith,

The shell is supported.
just try

shell("Dir c:\")

is it interactive? No. You can't have a result until the shell is 
finished (XP, NT or W98 alike). Can it be fooled? Yes...

get shell("start dir c:\ /s > mylisting.txt")

then you can read the mylisting.txt file as it comes 
if the file is not locked by the system (but it works 
in this case).

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Keith
> Hutchison
> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:09
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: shells win32
> 
> 
> Two questions.
> 
> 1. Is shell supported with Runtime Revolution with win32? (I assume it is )
> 2. Is the shell synchronous, asynchronous or interactive with RunTime
> revolution?
> 
> Keith Hutchison
> Balance-Infosystems.Com
> 
> postgresql - mysql - dbf
> Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
> http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com  Mon Aug 30 05:03:17 2004
From: keith.hutchison at balance-infosystems.com (Keith Hutchison)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:03:17 +1000
Subject: shells win32
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEIGGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <087101c48e70$30787ae0$3f64a8c0@KEITHXP>

Hi Xavier

> The shell is supported.
> just try
>
> shell("Dir c:\")
Good ;-)

>
> is it interactive? No. You can't have a result until the shell is
> finished (XP, NT or W98 alike). Can it be fooled? Yes...
>
> get shell("start dir c:\ /s > mylisting.txt")
>
> then you can read the mylisting.txt file as it comes
> if the file is not locked by the system (but it works
> in this case).
Same hassle as with REALbasic. shell _should_ be interactive.
Especially if you want to use ssh (putty etc on win32) to log into another
server to do some admin. I was hoping runtime revolution was more advanced
with the win32 shell than RealBasic.

Thanks

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org




From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Mon Aug 30 07:15:33 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 08:15:33 -0300
Subject: A Silly Thing I Did
In-Reply-To: <FD24324F-FA33-11D8-A644-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <BD5892A4.A14C%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Thanks, Sarah.  I found the graphic in the Browser but can't find a way to
delete it.  Control-clicking doesn't give me that option and I don't see a
menu item that does either.  Just using the Delete key doesn't work either.
How do I do that?  Jim

on 8/30/04 12:23 AM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> Well, I inadvertently pasted a picture in a script window.  I thought
>> I had
>> the text I wanted in my script on my clipboard.  Now, every script in
>> my
>> stack shows this picture and I can?t delete it.  How do I get rid of
>> it?
>> Jim
> 
> I've done this myself (although not with a picture). In my case, I quit
> Rev making sure to say "Don't save" when it offered to save the script
> editor. If you are already past this stage and have already saved the
> "new improved" script editor, then there are a couple of options.
> 
> - reinstall Revolution (probably the quickest)
> - use the Application Browser, show Rev UI elements in lists, find the
> script editor, find your image and delete it that way, then save the
> editor again.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Mon Aug 30 09:38:52 2004
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:38:52 -0400
Subject: Aargh printing
In-Reply-To: <8F15FA56-F9C7-11D8-9B0F-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>
References: <20040829072241.4D0329300BF@mail.runrev.com>
	<8F15FA56-F9C7-11D8-9B0F-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <EE245A9E-FA89-11D8-B6DF-0050E4BA750F@fjrhome.net>

To begin with, I would use tabs instead of spaces.

On Aug 29, 2004, at 10:27 AM, Mark Smith wrote:

> I'm having difficulty with a printing situation...
>
> Rev 2.2.1,  Mac OS 10.3.4
>
> I have a field containing columns of data, formatted by script using 
> spaces... the textFont of the field is set to 9 point Monaco, so fixed 
> width, to keep the columns straight.
>
> Using revPrintField, the result on paper is larger (I'd say 10 point) 
> and the the font, even though clearly still monaco, is clearly not 
> fixed width...the columns are now 'wavy'.
>
> Resetting the fontSize of the field before printing, and resetting 
> again, afterwards, like this :
>
> on doPrinting
>   set the textSize of fld "pList" to 8
>   set the printMargins to "30,30,30,30"
>   revShowPrintDialog false,true
>   if the result is "Cancel" then exit to top
>   revPrintField the name of fld "pList"
>   set the textSize of fld "pList" to 9
> end doPrinting
>
> solves the size problem, but the columns are still wavy.
>
> Copying the text into textEdit and printing from there solves the wavy 
> columns problem, but the fontSize is now reduced to 8 point. (Typing 
> directly into textEdit and printing seems to be fine...)
>
> Simply printing the card, with it's controls and everything (which I 
> don't want), shows the columns nice and straight, but the font size is 
> now even bigger, at 12 points, I'd say.
>
> Printing to a PDF shows all the same problems, so I don't think it's 
> the printer (an HP5552).
>
> Any ideas anyone?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



___________________________________________________________
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From douez at wanadoo.fr  Mon Aug 30 10:25:27 2004
From: douez at wanadoo.fr (thierry Douez)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:25:27 +0200
Subject: layers shifting  in Application Browser...
In-Reply-To: <412D5C90.6090001@fourthworld.com>
References: <412BB19C.6020509@fourthworld.com>
 <D9EF43CC-F61B-11D8-936D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
 <412D5C90.6090001@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <385209012.20040830162527@wanadoo.fr>

Hi all,

just experiencing some strange behavior !
Who's strange, me or rev 2.1 on Win98 ?

using the application browser to check a group
of fields and buttons... in one script i discover
that the layer is one less than the layer viewed
in the application browser window.

is this a known behavior ?

thierry


From douez at wanadoo.fr  Mon Aug 30 10:36:13 2004
From: douez at wanadoo.fr (thierry Douez)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:36:13 +0200
Subject: combobox in a background group
In-Reply-To: <412D5C90.6090001@fourthworld.com>
References: <412BB19C.6020509@fourthworld.com>
 <D9EF43CC-F61B-11D8-936D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
 <412D5C90.6090001@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1476862747.20040830163613@wanadoo.fr>

Hi all,

what is the trick to simply see a combobox in
a background group to behave like a field object
with the sharetext option Off ?

in other words, sharing a combobox in few cards,
how to put different values on each card ?

thanks for a help, or pointing to the documentation, i'm stuck :-(

regards, thierry


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 30 10:41:52 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 07:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: combobox in a background group
In-Reply-To: <1476862747.20040830163613@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20040830144152.40579.qmail@web60509.mail.yahoo.com>

--- thierry Douez <douez at wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> what is the trick to simply see a combobox in
> a background group to behave like a field object
> with the sharetext option Off ?
> 
> in other words, sharing a combobox in few cards,
> how to put different values on each card ?
> 
> thanks for a help, or pointing to the documentation,
> i'm stuck :-(
> 
> regards, thierry
> 

Bonjour Thierry,

In this case, I'd add a hidden field to contain the
actual data, then copy the value from the combobox
into that field on closeField, and set the combobox
label to the text of the hidden field on preOpenCard
in the background group script.

-- combobox script
on closeField
  put the label of me into field "HiddenField"
end closeField
--

-- background group script
on preOpenCard
  set the label of btn "Combobox" to \
      the text of field "HiddenField"
end preOpenCard
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 30 10:53:49 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 07:53:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: layers shifting  in Application Browser...
In-Reply-To: <385209012.20040830162527@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20040830145349.63468.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>

--- thierry Douez <douez at wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> just experiencing some strange behavior !
> Who's strange, me or rev 2.1 on Win98 ?
> 
> using the application browser to check a group
> of fields and buttons... in one script i discover
> that the layer is one less than the layer viewed
> in the application browser window.
> 
> is this a known behavior ?
> 
> thierry
> 

Bonjour Thierry,

Sometimes the Application Browser doesn't get properly
updated; have you tried closing it and re-opening it ?
Also important to note is that when you are in 'edit
group' mode, the Application Browser will only show
the controls inside that group, and starts numbering
at 1 -- because 'edit group' mode is different.

Of course, please check it again with Rev 2.5 Release
Candidate -- if the problem is still present there,
please bugzilla it :-)

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Aug 30 11:55:49 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:55:49 -0500
Subject: combobox in a background group
In-Reply-To: <20040830144152.40579.qmail@web60509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BD58B835.4BAC%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/30/04 9:41 AM, "Jan Schenkel" <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> in other words, sharing a combobox in few cards,
>> how to put different values on each card ?
>> 
>> thanks for a help, or pointing to the documentation,
>> i'm stuck :-(
>> 
>> regards, thierry
>> 
> 
> Bonjour Thierry,
> 
> In this case, I'd add a hidden field to contain the
> actual data, then copy the value from the combobox
> into that field on closeField, and set the combobox
> label to the text of the hidden field on preOpenCard
> in the background group script.

I was thinking the same thing, but using a custom property of the card
instead of a field.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From craine at sent.com  Mon Aug 30 12:28:28 2004
From: craine at sent.com (Anthony Craine)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:28:28 -0500
Subject: Downloading Web pages that require cookies
In-Reply-To: <BD58B835.4BAC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD58B835.4BAC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <1093883308.29378.203338526@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hello, List:

I'm thinking of making the jump from HyperCard to Revolution Express.
I'm currently playing with the 30-day trial version.

Is it possible, using Transcript's various URL scripting commands, to
download Web pages that require cookies in order to be downloaded? Or
would it make more sense to embed a UNIX curl command within a script in
Revolution? I know that curl can send cookie info to a Web server to
retrieve pages; I can't determine if Transcript has a command that can
do the same.

Thanks.

Tony Craine

From revlist at cableone.net  Mon Aug 30 12:35:59 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:35:59 -0600
Subject: A Silly Thing I Did
In-Reply-To: <BD5892A4.A14C%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
Message-ID: <000001c48eaf$6e9c3b10$64fea8c0@chris1>

I think you have make the card that contains your image the active card.
Should be able to do that by just double-clicking the card of the script
editor that contains your image.  Then you should be able to get the context
menu you're talking about, or even select the image itself on the screen.

Hope that helps.

Chris Sheffield
Software Developer
Read Naturally


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jim Carwardine
> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:16 AM
> To: Revolution Listserve
> Subject: Re: A Silly Thing I Did
> 
> Thanks, Sarah.  I found the graphic in the Browser but can't find a way to
> delete it.  Control-clicking doesn't give me that option and I don't see a
> menu item that does either.  Just using the Delete key doesn't work
> either.
> How do I do that?  Jim
> 
> on 8/30/04 12:23 AM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
> 
> >> Well, I inadvertently pasted a picture in a script window.  I thought
> >> I had
> >> the text I wanted in my script on my clipboard.  Now, every script in
> >> my
> >> stack shows this picture and I can?t delete it.  How do I get rid of
> >> it?
> >> Jim
> >
> > I've done this myself (although not with a picture). In my case, I quit
> > Rev making sure to say "Don't save" when it offered to save the script
> > editor. If you are already past this stage and have already saved the
> > "new improved" script editor, then there are a couple of options.
> >
> > - reinstall Revolution (probably the quickest)
> > - use the Application Browser, show Rev UI elements in lists, find the
> > script editor, find your image and delete it that way, then save the
> > editor again.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Sarah
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> --
> 
> OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
> <http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>
> 
> Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
> 1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
> Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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---
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From douez at wanadoo.fr  Mon Aug 30 13:16:45 2004
From: douez at wanadoo.fr (thierry Douez)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:16:45 +0200
Subject: combobox in a background group
In-Reply-To: <BD58B835.4BAC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <20040830144152.40579.qmail@web60509.mail.yahoo.com>
 <BD58B835.4BAC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <1718011452.20040830191645@wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour Ken,

KR> On 8/30/04 9:41 AM, "Jan Schenkel" <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

>>> in other words, sharing a combobox in few cards,
>>> how to put different values on each card ?
>> 
>> Bonjour Thierry,
>> 
>> In this case, I'd add a hidden field to contain the
>> actual data, then copy the value from the combobox
>> into that field on closeField, and set the combobox
>> label to the text of the hidden field on preOpenCard
>> in the background group script.

KR> I was thinking the same thing, but using a custom property of the card
KR> instead of a field.

Thanks to all,

As i was going to manage every control of the group with custom
properties, i've got my answer :-)
one script for the list of controls to store ansd retrieve the info
in and from the custom properties....


Meilleures Salutations,
 thierry


From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Mon Aug 30 13:18:43 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:18:43 -0300
Subject: A Silly Thing I Did
In-Reply-To: <000001c48eaf$6e9c3b10$64fea8c0@chris1>
Message-ID: <BD58E7C3.A199%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

It's gone now.  Thanks... Jim

on 8/30/04 1:35 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote:

> I think you have make the card that contains your image the active card.
> Should be able to do that by just double-clicking the card of the script
> editor that contains your image.  Then you should be able to get the context
> menu you're talking about, or even select the image itself on the screen.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> Chris Sheffield
> Software Developer
> Read Naturally
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
>> bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jim Carwardine
>> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:16 AM
>> To: Revolution Listserve
>> Subject: Re: A Silly Thing I Did
>> 
>> Thanks, Sarah.  I found the graphic in the Browser but can't find a way to
>> delete it.  Control-clicking doesn't give me that option and I don't see a
>> menu item that does either.  Just using the Delete key doesn't work
>> either.
>> How do I do that?  Jim
>> 
>> on 8/30/04 12:23 AM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>> 
>>>> Well, I inadvertently pasted a picture in a script window.  I thought
>>>> I had
>>>> the text I wanted in my script on my clipboard.  Now, every script in
>>>> my
>>>> stack shows this picture and I can?t delete it.  How do I get rid of
>>>> it?
>>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> I've done this myself (although not with a picture). In my case, I quit
>>> Rev making sure to say "Don't save" when it offered to save the script
>>> editor. If you are already past this stage and have already saved the
>>> "new improved" script editor, then there are a couple of options.
>>> 
>>> - reinstall Revolution (probably the quickest)
>>> - use the Application Browser, show Rev UI elements in lists, find the
>>> script editor, find your image and delete it that way, then save the
>>> editor again.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sarah
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
>> <http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>
>> 
>> Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
>> 1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
>> Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> ---
>> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 8/27/2004
>> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 8/27/2004
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From mark at runrev.com  Mon Aug 30 15:52:24 2004
From: mark at runrev.com (Mark Chia)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:52:24 +0000
Subject: Revolution 2.5 Release Candidate 2
Message-ID: <1093895544.8812.5.camel@andromeda.runtime>

Hi Folks, 

Release candidate 2 is now up for Windows, Mac OS X and Linux.

A few things to note:

You won't be able to access any of the external web browser links in
this yet, as they point to the updated web site which is currently
password protected as it gets finished.  The new site will go live when
we launch.

The content for the Learning Center is still not finished.  This is
something we can update online without having to release another version
of the product.  It will be up over the next couple of days.  The
installation process now detects if the correct video codec has been
installed.

The keys needed to unlock this release have not changed since beta 2. 
Note that the store and key generation systems will be taken up and down
throughout the weekend as we upgrade them in final preparation for
release. Please do not email support if you are unable to get a key from
the system because it is down - support does not have access to the
system when it is down either.  Apologies in advance for any
inconvenience, this disruption is unavoidable and will create a better
system for all.

We're aware of an issue in the Documentation freezing for a minute or so
when accessing it with Web Notes turned on at the same time as
downloading a video from Rev Online.  We'll probably patch this in a
minor rebuild before we ship.

The Sample Stacks that used to be shipped with the product will be
included on the updated site as an optional download, this is so that
the new Sample Projects, which are carefully designed and commented for
learning, are the ones that new users are pointed to.  We will also be
including the new Externals SDK on the updated web site when it goes
live.

At this time we are no longer able to respond to minor glitches or
annoyances reported.  This is because we must change as little as
possible in any rebuild to ensure we don't introduce any new issues.

Please do not give these URLs out.  Classic is still to follow.

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/linux.tgz
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revolution-2.5-rc2.i386.rpm
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revsetup.exe
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revolution.zip
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revolutionosx.dmg


Mark
--
Mark Chia ~ mark at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From mark at maseurope.net  Mon Aug 30 15:01:05 2004
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:01:05 +0100
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 117
In-Reply-To: <20040830160006.A88849300F0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040830160006.A88849300F0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <F1A81D25-FAB6-11D8-AFFA-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>

Fair enough, but some of the columns need to be right-justified, so I'm 
back to spaces, though fewer of them, so maybe less wavy print-outs.

My point, though directed at the world in general, not just you :), is 
that text generated in Rev, using a fixed width font seems to be 
non-fixed-width when the text is taken out of Revolution, either by 
printing or copying, even in to other applications that normally behave 
as expected. Perhaps even more disturbingly, the size of the font 
changes also...

Cheers,

Mark

On 30 Aug 2004, at 17:00, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> To begin with, I would use tabs instead of spaces.
>


From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Aug 30 15:31:58 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:31:58 -0700
Subject: Docs in 2.5RC2 MUCH Better
Message-ID: <423A74BE-FABB-11D8-A9B5-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Just wanted to report that the docs in the new RC2 release of Rev 2.5 
work MUCH better based on about 10 minutes' exploration. More 
responsive, better default (for my use anyway) and result lists get 
sorted properly.

I'm a MUCH happier Revolutionary.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Aug 30 15:37:26 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:37:26 -0500
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 117
In-Reply-To: <F1A81D25-FAB6-11D8-AFFA-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>
References: <20040830160006.A88849300F0@mail.runrev.com>
	<F1A81D25-FAB6-11D8-AFFA-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <413381F6.3000702@hyperactivesw.com>

On 8/30/04 2:01 PM, Mark Smith wrote:

> My point, though directed at the world in general, not just you :), is 
> that text generated in Rev, using a fixed width font seems to be 
> non-fixed-width when the text is taken out of Revolution, either by 
> printing or copying, even in to other applications that normally behave 
> as expected. Perhaps even more disturbingly, the size of the font 
> changes also...

Could it be related to all the formatForPrinting issues that I've been 
having in another thread? Are you setting the formatForPrinting 
property? Windows printing fonts are often a different size than their 
screen equivalents.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Aug 30 15:38:57 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:38:57 -0400
Subject: Docs in 2.5RC2 MUCH Better
In-Reply-To: <423A74BE-FABB-11D8-A9B5-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <423A74BE-FABB-11D8-A9B5-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <3BD3007C-FABC-11D8-8E8E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 30, 2004, at 3:31 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Just wanted to report that the docs in the new RC2 release of Rev 2.5 
> work MUCH better based on about 10 minutes' exploration. More 
> responsive, better default (for my use anyway) and result lists get 
> sorted properly.

Indeed. Looking really good. Filters in the dictionary are 
instantaneous. Searches are still slow... perhaps like Monte has 
mentioned, we can see the ability to filter what is searched in 
2.5.1... that should get us to having the new interface and as good or 
better means to get to what we are looking for.

Haven't checked the bookmarks issue that Dan brought up though.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Aug 30 15:48:41 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:48:41 -0700
Subject: Docs in 2.5RC2 MUCH Better
In-Reply-To: <3BD3007C-FABC-11D8-8E8E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <423A74BE-FABB-11D8-A9B5-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<3BD3007C-FABC-11D8-8E8E-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <9823F8CC-FABD-11D8-A9B5-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>


On Aug 30, 2004, at 12:38 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> Haven't checked the bookmarks issue that Dan brought up though.

Seems to be fixed. At least it appears to be a lot better.

BTW, it turns out one of my "bug" reports about the bookmarks was a 
simple misunderstanding. The problem was that the "Filter With" 
operation works on bookmarks (which it logically should, of course), so 
it only *appeared* things were being lost from my bookmark list. The 
problem with doubled entries, however, was real and now appears to be 
gone. As far as I can tell, personal local bookmarks work fine. Haven't 
tried using Internet Bookmarks yet.



> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From rev at armbase.com  Mon Aug 30 15:56:07 2004
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:56:07 +0100
Subject: Buying studio
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040830204950.019eaca0@mail.armbase.com>

Hi All.

I have express and have the option of dreamcard or an upgrade to studio. I 
know somewhere Kevin mentioned that there was an upgrade for 99 dollars. I 
cant find the email right now, so I dont know if I'm supposed to wait for 
release of version 2.5 or if I'm supposed to buy before release.
Also if I remember correctly, I can upgrade now, but if I take dreamcard, I 
would have to pay 199 dollars to upgrade to studio if I change my mind....

Anyone on the list know what my options are.

Cheers
Bob


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Aug 30 16:03:25 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:03:25 -0400
Subject: db connection
Message-ID: <A7253698-FABF-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi all,
put  revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,)  
revdberr,invalid database type . Is this because its not the final 
release  ?
Hershel Fisch

From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug 30 16:32:28 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:32:28 -0500
Subject: A Silly Thing I Did
In-Reply-To: <BD58E7C3.A199%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
References: <BD58E7C3.A199%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
Message-ID: <41338EDC.1050102@chipp.com>

Jim,

You can also use the altClean plugin. It will go through each script of 
your stack and remove the htmlText formatting for them. It can be found at:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginDownload/Downloads.htm

best,
Chipp

From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Mon Aug 30 16:43:06 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 21:43:06 +0100
Subject: Downloading Web pages that require cookies
In-Reply-To: <1093883308.29378.203338526@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <BD58B835.4BAC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<1093883308.29378.203338526@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <323C34A4-FAC5-11D8-8AEB-000A9569F8B0@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 30 Aug 2004, at 17:28, Anthony Craine wrote:
>
> Is it possible, using Transcript's various URL scripting commands, to
> download Web pages that require cookies in order to be downloaded? Or
> would it make more sense to embed a UNIX curl command within a script 
> in
> Revolution? I know that curl can send cookie info to a Web server to
> retrieve pages; I can't determine if Transcript has a command that can
> do the same.
>

Yes, it's possible.

When making a url request, you would send the cookie by setting the 
httpHeaders property. I can't remember exactly the format for a cookie 
header, but it's be something like this:

   Cookie: name=value

So you would do something like this (very roughly) in your script:

     put <some name> into tCookieName
     put <some data> into tCookieValue
     set the httpHeaders to "Cookie: " & tCookieName & "=" & tCookieValue
     get url myUrl
     set the httpHeaders to empty

To get the cookie that is sent by the server, you would use 
libUrlLastRHHeaders() and parse the data for the "Set-Cookie" header.

Dave


From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Aug 30 17:02:05 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:02:05 +0200
Subject: db connection
In-Reply-To: <A7253698-FABF-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <A7253698-FABF-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <D8FCA0B5-FAC7-11D8-9CDE-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hello Hershel,

Did you try this :

> put  
> revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","localhost","projetsdac","postgres","postg 
> res") into PGLinkOpen

with the second "postgres" item as the default postgres user password  
(to be replaced by the right one if you changed it) ?

Works there, at least under Panther.

Le 30 ao?t 04, ? 22:03, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :

> Hi all,
> put  revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,)   
> revdberr,invalid database type . Is this because its not the final  
> release  ?
> Hershel Fisch
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Aug 30 18:25:32 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:25:32 -0400
Subject: db connection
In-Reply-To: <D8FCA0B5-FAC7-11D8-9CDE-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <8173D58F-FAD3-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Monday, August 30, 2004, at 05:02 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Hello Hershel,
>
> Did you try this :
>
>> put  
>> revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","localhost","projetsdac","postgres","post 
>> gres") into PGLinkOpen
>
> with the second "postgres" item as the default postgres user password  
> (to be replaced by the right one if you changed it) ?
Ok ,
1) I don't have a password on my Db.
2) If this is the case then why is the err , invalid database type.
3) Using  X 10.2.8
4) "put  revOpenDatabase("MySQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,)" when I  
don't have mySql running, into the message box crashes or Freezes RR.
Thanks in advanced. Hershel
>
> Works there, at least under Panther.
>
> Le 30 ao?t 04, ? 22:03, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :
>
>> Hi all,
>> put  revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,)   
>> revdberr,invalid database type . Is this because its not the final  
>> release  ?
>> Hershel Fisch
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> -- 
> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>
> 100, rue de Paris
> F - 77140 Nemours
>
> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>
> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>
> WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Aug 30 18:33:24 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:33:24 -0700
Subject: htmlText - hard to pin down cause of crash
Message-ID: <4133AB34.50304@fourthworld.com>

I've had intermittet problems in all builds of Rev going back to v2.0, 
in which swapping out htmlText in fields sometimes causes a hard crash.

I've had a tough time pinning down the exact cause of the crash and 
can't find a related bug in Bugzilla, so if you've experienced something 
similar please contact me offlist with details and we can brainstorm a 
recipe and submit it.

Thanks in advance -

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From themacguy at macosx.com  Mon Aug 30 19:36:04 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:36:04 -0600
Subject: Option button question - answered
In-Reply-To: <20040830160006.E4AA99300F3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD591604.2608%themacguy@macosx.com>

Sarah,

A-ha! Set the label before calling the dialog. My "send..." attempt put the
cart before the horse.

Thanks very much.

Barry

On 8/30/04 10:00 AM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> allegedly flung into the void:

> From: Sarah Reichelt <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
> Subject: Re: Option button question
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <A2E377D2-FA36-11D8-A644-0003937A97B8 at genesearch.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> You can explicitly set the label before calling the modal dialog
> e.g.
> 
> on menuPick pChoice
>    set the label of me to pChoice
>    -- show dialog etc
> end menuPick



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Aug 30 21:19:52 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:19:52 -0500
Subject: htmlText - hard to pin down cause of crash
In-Reply-To: <4133AB34.50304@fourthworld.com>
References: <4133AB34.50304@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4133D238.9040500@chipp.com>

Interesting...

Are you setting the fields to properly formed htmlText, or are you 
'getting a URL' and setting the fld to the resulting htmlText?

I've never had a single problem and use htmlText for all of my Grid 
controls, so I'm thinking it has to do with non-properly formatted html.

Just a guess.

-Chipp

From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Mon Aug 30 22:45:49 2004
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:45:49 -0700
Subject: combobox in a background group
In-Reply-To: <BD58B835.4BAC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BD58B835.4BAC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <DE08E32C-FAF7-11D8-917B-000A95A872D6@inspiredlogic.com>

On Aug 30, 2004, at 8:55 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 8/30/04 9:41 AM, "Jan Schenkel" <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> in other words, sharing a combobox in few cards,
>>> how to put different values on each card ?
>>>
>>> thanks for a help, or pointing to the documentation,
>>> i'm stuck :-(
>>>
>>> regards, thierry
>>>
>>
>> Bonjour Thierry,
>>
>> In this case, I'd add a hidden field to contain the
>> actual data, then copy the value from the combobox
>> into that field on closeField, and set the combobox
>> label to the text of the hidden field on preOpenCard
>> in the background group script.
>
> I was thinking the same thing, but using a custom property of the card
> instead of a field.
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com

I was thinking the same thing, but using custom properties on the 
combobox, each named for the card they should be used on.

Horses for courses ;-)

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com


From craine at sent.com  Mon Aug 30 23:34:53 2004
From: craine at sent.com (Anthony Craine)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:34:53 -0500
Subject: Downloading Web pages that require cookies
In-Reply-To: <323C34A4-FAC5-11D8-8AEB-000A9569F8B0@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <BD58B835.4BAC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
   <1093883308.29378.203338526@webmail.messagingengine.com>
   <323C34A4-FAC5-11D8-8AEB-000A9569F8B0@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1093923293.12138.203377522@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 21:43:06 +0100, "Dave Cragg"
<dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk> said:
> 
> So you would do something like this (very roughly) in your script:
> 
>      put <some name> into tCookieName
>      put <some data> into tCookieValue
>      set the httpHeaders to "Cookie: " & tCookieName & "=" & tCookieValue
>      get url myUrl
>      set the httpHeaders to empty
> 
> To get the cookie that is sent by the server, you would use 
> libUrlLastRHHeaders() and parse the data for the "Set-Cookie" header.
> 
> Dave

Worked perfectly. Thanks, Dave.

From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Aug 30 23:58:53 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:58:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2.5/Sample Scripts
In-Reply-To: <1093923293.12138.203377522@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408302051580.15935-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I am pleased to see the sample scripts... however, while this cannot be
accomplished likely for final 2.5 release, I would like to recommend:

1. Breaking it up into categories (Card things, window things, navigation
things...).

2. Placing all items of a category into a substack, with all ideas in a
mainstack.

3. Line breaks between items (as a couple of my testers indicated, "people
don't like to read".  Sad, I know, but true...).

Judy




From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 30 23:59:39 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:59:39 -0700
Subject: htmlText - hard to pin down cause of crash
In-Reply-To: <4133AB34.50304@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <2E342445-FB02-11D8-ACF3-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Monday, August 30, 2004, at 03:33 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I've had intermittet problems in all builds of Rev going back to v2.0, 
> in which swapping out htmlText in fields sometimes causes a hard 
> crash.--
>  Richard Gaskin

I've never seen it cause a crash before. Sometimes I use an off screen 
field to convert text, rich text, or markup text fragments into rev 
friendly htmlText.

Is there any chance you are sometimes sending not-well formed SGML 
through the htmlText function?

Mark


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Aug 31 01:37:19 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:37:19 -0700
Subject: Mac to Windows -- maybe text encoding
In-Reply-To: <BD542867.5EBC%spiffsetz@mac.com>
References: <BD542867.5EBC%spiffsetz@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p061005b8bd56e22a70dd@[66.93.39.98]>

At 11:53 PM -0600 8/26/2004, Steve and Lee Ann Setzer wrote:
>However, part of my game logic compares the button name to text stored in a
>field. So, I need to also get the text in the field back into Mac encoding
>even when running on Windows. I tried the following script but it didn't
>seem to change things:
>
>repeat with countVar = 1 to the number of fields
>      get field countVar
>      put ISOToMac(it) into field countVar
>end repeat

Hmmm, this should work. (But are you perhaps doing the conversion 
twice? That is, if you've converted the button name to ISO, you don't 
need to convert the field text too - everything is now in the Windows 
character set.)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Aug 31 01:40:42 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:40:42 -0700
Subject: Determining stack of object nested in groups
In-Reply-To: <F19FC2E4-F9BC-11D8-B947-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
References: <20040829072241.4D0329300BF@mail.runrev.com>
 <F19FC2E4-F9BC-11D8-B947-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p06100524bd57f3711b62@[66.93.39.98]>

At 9:11 AM -0400 8/29/2004, Jim Lyons wrote:
>Since a quoted string is one "word" in Transcript and since the 
>stack is always the last component of the long id, you may also use:
>
>word -2 to -1 of the long id of myObject
>
>Jim Lyons

Elegant but dangerous ;-), if a filename or stack name contains 
quotes. You'll end up with the wrong piece in that case.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Aug 31 03:08:46 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:08:46 -0700
Subject: htmlText - hard to pin down cause of crash
In-Reply-To: <4133D238.9040500@chipp.com>
References: <4133AB34.50304@fourthworld.com> <4133D238.9040500@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <413423FE.1060000@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:

> Interesting...
> 
> Are you setting the fields to properly formed htmlText, or are you 
> 'getting a URL' and setting the fld to the resulting htmlText?
> 
> I've never had a single problem and use htmlText for all of my Grid 
> controls, so I'm thinking it has to do with non-properly formatted html.
> 
> Just a guess.

I just ran a test in which I took the HTML in question and set a field's 
htmltext to it 1000 times -- no crash.

So it may not be htmlText at all, but perhaps something else.  The 
htmlText is a part of a larger routine -- I'll keep testing portions of 
it until I find the culprit....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From frank at backtalk.com  Tue Aug 31 04:51:44 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 09:51:44 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Web Photos Pro 1.0b12 released
Message-ID: <FC6BEE19-FB2A-11D8-8BEE-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Hello all,

Version 1.0b12 of Web Photos Pro for Mac OS X and Windows XP/2000 is 
available for download.  New goodies in this release include support 
for ISO characters (?, ?, ?, etc.), and automatic version checking.

Lots of bugs have been fixed too.  If you tried Web Photos Pro before, 
but stopped using it because of problems or bugs, this is a great 
release with which to take another look.

We're still offering a free license key to Web Photos Pro v1.0 to 
anyone who uses the product to upload 3 or more albums with at least 10 
photos in each album.  Simply send me a url of the albums you've 
uploaded, and I'll send you a free license key when the product ships 
(offer good until September 15, 2004).

Home page: http://www.webphotospro.com/
Downloads:  http://www.webphotospro.com/downloads/
Release notes: 
http://www.webphotospro.com/archives/category/release-notes/

Kind regards,
-- Frank Leahy

Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/


From mark at maseurope.net  Tue Aug 31 04:57:55 2004
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 09:57:55 +0100
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 11, Issue 118
In-Reply-To: <20040831035622.A6C879300AC@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040831035622.A6C879300AC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D9701199-FB2B-11D8-91BC-000D93C19756@maseurope.net>

Yes, I checked the docs on this issue, but this a mac situation, no 
windows involved...

Cheers,

Mark Smith

On 31 Aug 2004, at 04:56, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Could it be related to all the formatForPrinting issues that I've been
> having in another thread? Are you setting the formatForPrinting
> property? Windows printing fonts are often a different size than their
> screen equivalents.


From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Aug 31 05:37:50 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:37:50 +0200
Subject: db connection
In-Reply-To: <8173D58F-FAD3-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <8173D58F-FAD3-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <6CAAA110-FB31-11D8-8787-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 31 ao?t 04, ? 00:25, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :

>
> On Monday, August 30, 2004, at 05:02 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>> Hello Hershel,
>>
>> Did you try this :
>>
>>> put  
>>> revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","localhost","projetsdac","postgres","pos 
>>> tgres") into PGLinkOpen
>>
>> with the second "postgres" item as the default postgres user password  
>> (to be replaced by the right one if you changed it) ?
> Ok ,
> 1) I don't have a password on my Db.

If Postgres is rightly installed, the default system postgres (with  
default "postgres" password") has been created during the installation  
process : so it exists. Else the installation process didn't complete.

> 2) If this is the case then why is the err , invalid database type.

To see if postgres is running normally lauch the activity monitor app  
and search the postgres thread. To see if the "postgres" user is  
rightly set, test "su - postgres" at the shell prompt and, then if you  
are prompted for the password, type "postgres". If something goes  
wrong, postgres need to be reinstalled (prefer the Marc Liyanage's  
installer -- <http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/postgresql/>).

> 3) Using  X 10.2.8

Seems OK.

> 4) "put  revOpenDatabase("MySQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,)" when I  
> don't have mySql running, into the message box crashes or Freezes RR.

Don't tell RR to connect MySQL if you want to access a PostgreSQL  
server...

> Thanks in advanced. Hershel

Hope this can help,

Best, Pierre


>>
>> Works there, at least under Panther.
>>
>> Le 30 ao?t 04, ? 22:03, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> put  revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,)   
>>> revdberr,invalid database type . Is this because its not the final  
>>> release  ?
>>> Hershel Fisch
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Aug 31 06:57:04 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:57:04 +0200
Subject: Revolution 2.5 Release Candidate 2
In-Reply-To: <1093895544.8812.5.camel@andromeda.runtime>
References: <1093895544.8812.5.camel@andromeda.runtime>
Message-ID: <7EA3342E-FB3C-11D8-8F89-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Works fine there, including the RevOnline features ;D

Best, Pierre


Le 30 ao?t 04, ? 21:52, Mark Chia a ?crit :

> Hi Folks,
>
> Release candidate 2 is now up for Windows, Mac OS X and Linux.
>
> A few things to note:
>
> You won't be able to access any of the external web browser links in
> this yet, as they point to the updated web site which is currently
> password protected as it gets finished.  The new site will go live when
> we launch.
>
> The content for the Learning Center is still not finished.  This is
> something we can update online without having to release another  
> version
> of the product.  It will be up over the next couple of days.  The
> installation process now detects if the correct video codec has been
> installed.
>
> The keys needed to unlock this release have not changed since beta 2.
> Note that the store and key generation systems will be taken up and  
> down
> throughout the weekend as we upgrade them in final preparation for
> release. Please do not email support if you are unable to get a key  
> from
> the system because it is down - support does not have access to the
> system when it is down either.  Apologies in advance for any
> inconvenience, this disruption is unavoidable and will create a better
> system for all.
>
> We're aware of an issue in the Documentation freezing for a minute or  
> so
> when accessing it with Web Notes turned on at the same time as
> downloading a video from Rev Online.  We'll probably patch this in a
> minor rebuild before we ship.
>
> The Sample Stacks that used to be shipped with the product will be
> included on the updated site as an optional download, this is so that
> the new Sample Projects, which are carefully designed and commented for
> learning, are the ones that new users are pointed to.  We will also be
> including the new Externals SDK on the updated web site when it goes
> live.
>
> At this time we are no longer able to respond to minor glitches or
> annoyances reported.  This is because we must change as little as
> possible in any rebuild to ensure we don't introduce any new issues.
>
> Please do not give these URLs out.  Classic is still to follow.
>
> http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/linux.tgz
> http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revolution-2.5- 
> rc2.i386.rpm
> http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revsetup.exe
> http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revolution.zip
> http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revolutionosx.dmg
>
>
> Mark
> --
> Mark Chia ~ mark at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From bvg at mac.com  Tue Aug 31 09:03:28 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:03:28 +0200
Subject: [ANN]ChatRev1.2
Message-ID: <269F944A-FB4E-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>

Its time again to update your chatrev stack. New features are:
Several bug fixes
UI enhancements
Multi line messages
styled text messages

also new since this release are 3th party chat stacks. Several people 
are working on these, and will release them when its time.

Download chatrev 1.2 by typing this into the message box:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.2.rev"

look at the server with its new UI:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrevserver1.2.rev"

you might also be interested in a short summary about the chatrev 
protocol:
http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev.txt

have fun!
Bjoernke

<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.2.rev"


From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Aug 31 13:40:35 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:40:35 -0500
Subject: New RunRev site...
Message-ID: <4134B813.10108@chipp.com>

www.runrev.com

Really nice! Great job RunRev team!

-Chipp

From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Tue Aug 31 13:38:47 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:38:47 -0400
Subject: Revolution 2.5 Release Candidate 2
Message-ID: <OF95E7B493.9E427F02-ON85256F01.0046C7B1@sealedair.com>

On 08/31/2004 at 06:57 AM Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr> wrote:
> Works fine there, including the RevOnline features ;D
> 
> Best, Pierre

I wish I could say the same for RevOnline. I filed bugzilla# 1962 when I 
discovered in 2.5RC1 that it doesn't work when I am at work. Most internet 
savy apps are firewall-aware, and will prompt when authentication is 
required. Not so with RevOnline...  :-(

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1962

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 31 13:56:54 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:56:54 -0700
Subject: New RunRev site...
In-Reply-To: <4134B813.10108@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <24EF2CD6-FB77-11D8-8DAF-000A95743F7A@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 10:40 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> www.runrev.com
>
> Really nice! Great job RunRev team!
>
> -Chipp

Garr-oo-vee, this new site is beautivile.

mb


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Aug 31 14:26:47 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:26:47 +0200
Subject: [ANN]ChatRev1.2
In-Reply-To: <269F944A-FB4E-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEJBGHAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Hey guys,

I highly recommend ChatRev. Not just because I'll soon announce one of 
'em 3rd party ChatRev Wannabe but because it finally makes sockets fun 
to learn and simple to use. 

Just wanted to say Good Job BvG!


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Bjornke von
> Gierke
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 15:03
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: [ANN]ChatRev1.2
> 
> 
> Its time again to update your chatrev stack. New features are:
> Several bug fixes
> UI enhancements
> Multi line messages
> styled text messages
> 
> also new since this release are 3th party chat stacks. Several people 
> are working on these, and will release them when its time.
> 
> Download chatrev 1.2 by typing this into the message box:
> go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.2.rev"
> 
> look at the server with its new UI:
> go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrevserver1.2.rev"
> 
> you might also be interested in a short summary about the chatrev 
> protocol:
> http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev.txt
> 
> have fun!
> Bjoernke
> 
> <>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
> Chat with other RunRev developers:
> go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.2.rev"
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Aug 31 14:16:58 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:16:58 -0700
Subject: New RunRev site...
In-Reply-To: <4134B813.10108@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BD5A0EAA.13DDD%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Chipp Walters wrote:

> www.runrev.com
> 
> Really nice! Great job RunRev team!

Echo what Chipp said.

The information provided and the way it is presented is an absolutely
stellar improvement.  RunRev.com is now on par with other players in the
industry.  All the folks involved in this update truly deserve big kudos.

Well done.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Aug 31 14:23:36 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:23:36 -0700
Subject: New RunRev site...
In-Reply-To: <BD5A0EAA.13DDD%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BD5A0EAA.13DDD%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <DFE63684-FB7A-11D8-BFE3-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

What can I say? Wow.

This is world-class both in design and in content. I found it easy to 
navigate, easy to understand the products and their differentiation, 
easy to buy my book ( :-) ) and aesthetically clean and simple.

Great job, folks. Really great.


On Aug 31, 2004, at 11:16 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>> www.runrev.com
>>
>> Really nice! Great job RunRev team!
>
> Echo what Chipp said.
>
> The information provided and the way it is presented is an absolutely
> stellar improvement.  RunRev.com is now on par with other players in 
> the
> industry.  All the folks involved in this update truly deserve big 
> kudos.
>
> Well done.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Development & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Aug 31 14:34:18 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:34:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New RunRev site...
In-Reply-To: <DFE63684-FB7A-11D8-BFE3-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0408311134040.15935-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Wow....

Huge improvement!

Judy



From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Aug 31 14:31:37 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:31:37 -0400
Subject: db connection
In-Reply-To: <6CAAA110-FB31-11D8-8787-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <FE76AB6F-FB7B-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 05:37 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

>
> Le 31 ao?t 04, ? 00:25, Hershel Fisch a ?crit :
>
>>
>> On Monday, August 30, 2004, at 05:02 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Hershel,
>>>
>>> Did you try this :
>>>
>>>> put  
>>>> revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","localhost","projetsdac","postgres","po 
>>>> stgres") into PGLinkOpen
>>>
>>> with the second "postgres" item as the default postgres user  
>>> password (to be replaced by the right one if you changed it) ?
>> Ok ,
>> 1) I don't have a password on my Db.
>
> If Postgres is rightly installed, the default system postgres (with  
> default "postgres" password") has been created during the installation  
> process : so it exists. Else the installation process didn't complete.
Got that , doesn't help. And also with RR 2.2.1 works without problems.
>
>> 2) If this is the case then why is the err , invalid database type.
>
> To see if postgres is running normally lauch the activity monitor app  
> and search the postgres thread. To see if the "postgres" user is  
> rightly set, test "su - postgres" at the shell prompt and, then if you  
> are prompted for the password, type "postgres". If something goes  
> wrong, postgres need to be reinstalled (prefer the Marc Liyanage's  
> installer -- <http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/postgresql/>).
Sorry , don't know what and where the activity monitor is.
The su - postgres is ok.
And I did use entropy's installation.
>
>
>> 4) "put  revOpenDatabase("MySQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,)" when  
>> I don't have mySql running, into the message box crashes or Freezes  
>> RR.
>
> Don't tell RR to connect MySQL if you want to access a PostgreSQL  
> server...
>
>> Thanks in advanced. Hershel
>
> Hope this can help,
>
> Best, Pierre
>
>
> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>
> 100, rue de Paris
> F - 77140 Nemours
>
> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>
> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>
> WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Tue Aug 31 14:48:22 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:48:22 -0400
Subject: 2.5 Release Candidate 2 link not working?
In-Reply-To: <1093895544.8812.5.camel@andromeda.runtime>
Message-ID: <20040831184319.0370030AE7@mail.rtl.org>

 
I saw that store and key generation systems may be down over the weekend but
I still can't get to the RC2 files in Mark's links and it is Tuesday.

Am I missing something?

Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark Chia
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 3:52 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Revolution 2.5 Release Candidate 2

Hi Folks, 

Release candidate 2 is now up for Windows, Mac OS X and Linux.

A few things to note:

You won't be able to access any of the external web browser links in this
yet, as they point to the updated web site which is currently password
protected as it gets finished.  The new site will go live when we launch.

The content for the Learning Center is still not finished.  This is
something we can update online without having to release another version of
the product.  It will be up over the next couple of days.  The installation
process now detects if the correct video codec has been installed.

The keys needed to unlock this release have not changed since beta 2. 
Note that the store and key generation systems will be taken up and down
throughout the weekend as we upgrade them in final preparation for release.
Please do not email support if you are unable to get a key from the system
because it is down - support does not have access to the system when it is
down either.  Apologies in advance for any inconvenience, this disruption is
unavoidable and will create a better system for all.

We're aware of an issue in the Documentation freezing for a minute or so
when accessing it with Web Notes turned on at the same time as downloading a
video from Rev Online.  We'll probably patch this in a minor rebuild before
we ship.

The Sample Stacks that used to be shipped with the product will be included
on the updated site as an optional download, this is so that the new Sample
Projects, which are carefully designed and commented for learning, are the
ones that new users are pointed to.  We will also be including the new
Externals SDK on the updated web site when it goes live.

At this time we are no longer able to respond to minor glitches or
annoyances reported.  This is because we must change as little as possible
in any rebuild to ensure we don't introduce any new issues.

Please do not give these URLs out.  Classic is still to follow.

http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/linux.tgz
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revolution-2.5-rc2.i386
.rpm
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revsetup.exe
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revolution.zip
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revolutionosx.dmg


Mark
--
Mark Chia ~ mark at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution -
User-Centric Development Tools

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Aug 31 14:44:43 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:44:43 -0400
Subject: New RunRev site...
In-Reply-To: <DFE63684-FB7A-11D8-BFE3-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <D2DF0937-FB7D-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 02:23 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> What can I say? Wow.
>
> This is world-class both in design and in content. I found it easy to 
> navigate, easy to understand the products and their differentiation, 
> easy to buy my book ( :-) ) and aesthetically clean and simple.

Beautiful site .
Hershel
>
> Great job, folks. Really great.
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2004, at 11:16 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>
>> Recently, Chipp Walters wrote:
>>
>>> www.runrev.com
>>>
>>> Really nice! Great job RunRev team!
>>
>> Echo what Chipp said.
>>
>> The information provided and the way it is presented is an absolutely
>> stellar improvement.  RunRev.com is now on par with other players in 
>> the
>> industry.  All the folks involved in this update truly deserve big 
>> kudos.
>>
>> Well done.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, Development & Design
>> -----
>> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
>> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
> Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
> Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From bodind at club-internet.fr  Tue Aug 31 15:07:48 2004
From: bodind at club-internet.fr (Dominique Bodin)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:07:48 +0200
Subject: Update ?
Message-ID: <opsdl13aewjagoek@mail.club-internet.fr>

Hello,

What a current registred user needs to download to upgrade from
2.2 rev to 2.5 rev ?

Thank's.

Dominique Bodin

From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Tue Aug 31 15:16:37 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:16:37 +0200
Subject: New RunRev site...
In-Reply-To: <4134B813.10108@chipp.com>
References: <4134B813.10108@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <a06110434bd5a7ed426b1@[141.89.100.235]>

>www.runrev.com
>
>Really nice! Great job RunRev team!
>
>-Chipp

Indeed. It IS a biiig improvement.

Robert

From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 31 16:23:52 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:23:52 -0400
Subject: New RunRev site...
In-Reply-To: <a06110434bd5a7ed426b1@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <4134B813.10108@chipp.com>
	<a06110434bd5a7ed426b1@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <ACA2D54A-FB8B-11D8-A3A1-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>

>> www.runrev.com
>>
>> Really nice! Great job RunRev team!
>>
>> -Chipp
>
> Indeed. It IS a biiig improvement.

All very true, the site is much improved... however, I don't see any 
way for existing customers to download the latest version without 
signing up for a free trial and being emailed a trial key.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Tue Aug 31 16:26:22 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:26:22 -0600
Subject: Revolution Studio and Enterprise 2.5 Released
In-Reply-To: <BD5A890D.2D68D%heather@runrev.com>
References: <BD5A890D.2D68D%heather@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <0619AE5E-FB8C-11D8-889C-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

I see RunRev has officially released 2.5. [Congrats!]

Anybody know whether there are any differences between this and 2.5RC2?

Devin


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Tue Aug 31 16:29:40 2004
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:29:40 -0400
Subject: New RunRev site...
In-Reply-To: <ACA2D54A-FB8B-11D8-A3A1-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20040831202436.CA66A30AF3@mail.rtl.org>

Your solution is the one I am trying. I'll be using my old key. I'll let you
know how it works...

Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Troy Rollins
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 4:24 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: New RunRev site...

>> www.runrev.com
>>
>> Really nice! Great job RunRev team!
>>
>> -Chipp
>
> Indeed. It IS a biiig improvement.

All very true, the site is much improved... however, I don't see any way for
existing customers to download the latest version without signing up for a
free trial and being emailed a trial key.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 31 16:30:02 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:30:02 -0400
Subject: New RunRev site...
In-Reply-To: <ACA2D54A-FB8B-11D8-A3A1-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <4134B813.10108@chipp.com>
	<a06110434bd5a7ed426b1@[141.89.100.235]>
	<ACA2D54A-FB8B-11D8-A3A1-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <893508AE-FB8C-11D8-8ACB-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

While you were sending this to the list, Troy, I was emailing Rev 
support with the same issue.  If there's a way for existing customers 
to go directly to the downloads page, I'm not finding it either 
(whether as a link from the website itself or via 
www.runrev.com/downloads/

M

On Aug 31, 2004, at 4:23 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> All very true, the site is much improved... however, I don't see any 
> way for existing customers to download the latest version without 
> signing up for a free trial and being emailed a trial key.


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 31 16:33:15 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:33:15 -0400
Subject: Downloads page workaround (was Re: New RunRev site...)
In-Reply-To: <ACA2D54A-FB8B-11D8-A3A1-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <4134B813.10108@chipp.com>
	<a06110434bd5a7ed426b1@[141.89.100.235]>
	<ACA2D54A-FB8B-11D8-A3A1-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <FC150EC5-FB8C-11D8-8ACB-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Until RunRev gets around to fixing this oversight, the url for the 
downloads page is:

http://downloads.runrev.com/revolution/

M
On Aug 31, 2004, at 4:23 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>>> www.runrev.com
>>>
>>> Really nice! Great job RunRev team!
>>>
>>> -Chipp
>>
>> Indeed. It IS a biiig improvement.
>
> All very true, the site is much improved... however, I don't see any 
> way for existing customers to download the latest version without 
> signing up for a free trial and being emailed a trial key.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 31 16:49:30 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:49:30 -0400
Subject: Bugzilla and Dox in nested folder
In-Reply-To: <351FACF8-F9F3-11D8-8373-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <351FACF8-F9F3-11D8-8373-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <416122AF-FB8F-11D8-8ACB-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Where did Bugzilla go to?  I got an email yesterday reporting that the 
problem with the Rev Dox giving an xmlerr if Rev resides in a folder 
whose path includes special characters (namely  ? ?) was resolved. But 
it is definitely NOT resolved in 2.5 final release.

OS X version: go to documentation, click on dictionary (select a few 
items, works fine). Now click on topics, get message box with xmlerr, 
can't parse xml.  Don't get topics list AND I can no longer select an 
item in the dictionary and see its definition--dox are stuck on the 
page for the last dictionary entry I viewed.

M

From michael.rr at mdmays.com  Tue Aug 31 17:18:28 2004
From: michael.rr at mdmays.com (Michael D Mays)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:18:28 -0500
Subject: Two sided printing
Message-ID: <4D5D5A2E-FB93-11D8-89CA-000A95D7C7E2@mdmays.com>

Hi,

How do I set up my printer with a script to do two sided printing, pick 
which tray to print from, ...?

Thanks,
Michael


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 31 17:19:41 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:19:41 -0400
Subject: Bugzilla and Dox in nested folder
In-Reply-To: <416122AF-FB8F-11D8-8ACB-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <351FACF8-F9F3-11D8-8373-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<416122AF-FB8F-11D8-8ACB-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <791ECB1E-FB93-11D8-8ACB-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

BTW, this was bugzilla 2088 and I have some additional information to 
share:

It not only hangs the documentation but it often hangs Rev 
(necessitating a forced quit), unless you exit the dox immediately.

Temporary fix:  Just don't use special characters (like ??  opt-f, 
opt-; ) in naming any of the folders Rev 2.5 is nested in.

M


On Aug 31, 2004, at 4:49 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Where did Bugzilla go to?  I got an email yesterday reporting that the 
> problem with the Rev Dox giving an xmlerr if Rev resides in a folder 
> whose path includes special characters (namely  ? ?) was resolved. But 
> it is definitely NOT resolved in 2.5 final release.
>
> OS X version: go to documentation, click on dictionary (select a few 
> items, works fine). Now click on topics, get message box with xmlerr, 
> can't parse xml.  Don't get topics list AND I can no longer select an 
> item in the dictionary and see its definition--dox are stuck on the 
> page for the last dictionary entry I viewed.
>
> M
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From frank at backtalk.com  Tue Aug 31 17:48:50 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:48:50 +0100
Subject: WebDAV implementation?
Message-ID: <8BB123F0-FB97-11D8-8BEE-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Has anyone done a WebDAV implementation in RunRev?  Would they be 
willing to share it?

Thanks,
-- Frank Leahy

Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Tue Aug 31 17:30:26 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:30:26 +0200
Subject: New RunRev site...
In-Reply-To: <ACA2D54A-FB8B-11D8-A3A1-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
References: <4134B813.10108@chipp.com>
 <a06110434bd5a7ed426b1@[141.89.100.235]>
 <ACA2D54A-FB8B-11D8-A3A1-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <a06110439bd5a9df977fb@[141.89.100.235]>

>
>All very true, the site is much improved... however, I don't see any 
>way for existing customers to download the latest version without 
>signing up for a free trial and being emailed a trial key.
>--
>Troy
>RPSystems, Ltd.
>http://www.rpsystems.net

Hopefully, they update the ftp site soon. The 2.2.1 is still the 
'current' version there.

ftp://ftp.runrev.com/pub/revolution/downloads/distributions/

Robert

From rodmc at runrev.com  Tue Aug 31 18:13:21 2004
From: rodmc at runrev.com (Rod McCall)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:13:21 +0100
Subject: ANN: Revolution Dreamcard 
Message-ID: <F81015C9-FB9A-11D8-BFDC-000393C52F2E@runrev.com>

Dear Revolutionaries,

We are delighted to announce two new products today, the first being 
the new Revolution Dreamcard 2.5, and the second being Revolution 2.5. 
More news on Revolution 2.5 follows in a separate email.

Dreamcard is software design and programming for the rest of us. If 
you've been waiting for the successor to Hypercard then this is it, 
however unlike Hypercard you can share your software with anyone who 
has the free Dreamcard Player, on any platform! With Dreamcard you can 
do anything from writing games to  finding out how to program, and make 
professional looking software easily!

Dreamcard is ideal for new and intermediate programmers, so whether 
your are a hobbyist, student, teacher or user interface professional, 
with Dreamcard you can build what you want quickly and easily. We've 
added new features such as video tutorials, printable PDF tutorials and 
our new RevOnline service. Each of these making it even easier to get 
started, or to find out more.

To find out whether it's Dreamcard or Revolution which best suits your 
needs pay our new look website at http://www.runrev.com

We would like to thank everyone who has supported Revolution so far and 
hope you will take the time to try out Dreamcard 2.5 and spread the 
word!

Best,

Rod

Dr Rod McCall ~ rodmc at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From Meitnik at aol.com  Tue Aug 31 18:58:32 2004
From: Meitnik at aol.com (Meitnik at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:58:32 EDT
Subject: nu site...insightful
Message-ID: <fb.60182df9.2e665c98@aol.com>

Kudos, well done, finally!

Now, since your pushing strong x-platform, lets get win32 stuff fixed fast 
;-)
My Mac app is very stable but my windows version is breaking. Tried filing a 
bug report but BZ is off line now...soon, I hope...

Andrew

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug 31 19:01:11 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:01:11 -0500
Subject: [ANN] RevZilla 1.1.3 Available
Message-ID: <BD5A6D67.4DD3%kray@sonsothunder.com>

RevZilla 1.1.3 is available, with the primary change being that it works
with the new location of Bugzilla (support.runrev.com/bugdatabase).

A much more enhanced version of RevZilla is under development and will be
released as RevZilla 2.0, and I wasn't planning on releasing an interim
build but the web site change demanded that I do so.

So until RevZilla 2.0 is released, RevZilla 1.1.3 will only be available
through RevNet (Development -> Plugins - Go RevNet, click on "Stacks")

I'll keep you all posted,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Aug 31 19:03:50 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:03:50 +0200
Subject: New RunRev site...
In-Reply-To: <DFE63684-FB7A-11D8-BFE3-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <BD5A0EAA.13DDD%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<DFE63684-FB7A-11D8-BFE3-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <057E23D7-FBA2-11D8-899E-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Dear Rev Team,

RR 2.5 + The Web Site. Congratulations and many Thanks ! This all is 
going to help us so much in both technical and marketing tasks :D

Kind Regards, Pierre

Le 31 ao?t 04, ? 20:23, Dan Shafer a ?crit :

> What can I say? Wow.
>
> This is world-class both in design and in content. I found it easy to 
> navigate, easy to understand the products and their differentiation, 
> easy to buy my book ( :-) ) and aesthetically clean and simple.
>
> Great job, folks. Really great.
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2004, at 11:16 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>
>> Recently, Chipp Walters wrote:
>>
>>> www.runrev.com
>>>
>>> Really nice! Great job RunRev team!
>>
>> Echo what Chipp said.
>>
>> The information provided and the way it is presented is an absolutely
>> stellar improvement.  RunRev.com is now on par with other players in 
>> the
>> industry.  All the folks involved in this update truly deserve big 
>> kudos.
>>
>> Well done.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, Development & Design
>> -----
>> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
>> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
> Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
> Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"


From rodmc at runrev.com  Tue Aug 31 19:24:05 2004
From: rodmc at runrev.com (Rod McCall)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 00:24:05 +0100
Subject: ANN: Revolution Studio and Enterprise 2.5
Message-ID: <D9E2EB98-FBA4-11D8-BFDC-000393C52F2E@runrev.com>

Hello again everyone,

Following on from my last email I am pleased to announce that we have 
also released Revolution Studio and Enterprise 2.5, for the 
professional and enterprise development communities who require 
industry level features and support options.. This new release brings 
over 700 new features and enhancements including:

* Full support for SSL for secure data transmission over networks and 
the Internet
* Linux native theme support (GTK) for a more professional appearance 
on Linux
* Industrial strength encryption support for data security
* Improved Unicode support
* New XML-RPC library
* Overhauled development user interface
* New learning centre with Video, PDF and Sample Projects library
* Better reference documentation
* New Externals SDK for running code written in other languages
* Over 700 other enhancements and stability improvements

This new release includes access to Revonline. This is our new online 
facility which  includes a Learning Centre, complete with a huge range 
of video tutorials, and the ability to access stacks across the web.? 
You can now publish your work for others to see and use - providing new 
ways for collaboration and interaction.

Why note pay a visit to our new look website www.runrev.com to find out 
more information and download the free trial versions?

Once again please take time to try out the new versions of Revolution 
and Dreamcard, and thanks for your support.

Kind regards,

Rod

Dr Rod McCall ~ rodmc at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools

From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Aug 31 19:37:14 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:37:14 +0200
Subject: Fwd: Google News Alert - runtime revolution
Message-ID: <B04F07C6-FBA6-11D8-8386-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

:D

D?but du message r?exp?di? :

> De: newsalerts-noreply at google.com
> Date: 1 septembre 2004 01:04:01 GMT+02:00
> ?: psahores at easynet.fr
> Objet: Google News Alert - runtime revolution
>
> DREAMCARD offers Hypercard-like environment
> MacNN - USA
> Revolution Dreamcard is a new easy-to-use development environment from
> Runtime Revolution. Created for a wide variety of users (educators ...
> <http://www.macnn.com/news/26079>
>
> APPLE Expo: Dreamcard simplifies programming
> MacWorld - USA
> Runtime Revolution announced at the Apple Expo in Paris the release of
> Dreamcard, a HyperCard-like application that enables hobbyists, 
> students
> and other ...
> <http://www.macworld.com/news/2004/08/31/dreamcard/index.php>
>
> This daily-once News Alert is brought to you by Google News (BETA)...
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Remove this News Alert:
> http://www.google.com/newsalerts/remove?s=fbd8482c1586a199&hl=en
>
> Create another News Alert:
> http://www.google.com/newsalerts?hl=en
>
> Try Google News:
> http://news.google.com/
>

From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Aug 31 19:33:31 2004
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:33:31 -0400
Subject: db connection
In-Reply-To: <FE76AB6F-FB7B-11D8-866B-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <2AF35BDE-FBA6-11D8-9968-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

>
>>
>>> 2) If this is the case then why is the err , invalid database type.
>>
>> To see if postgres is running normally lauch the activity monitor app 
>> and search the postgres thread. To see if the "postgres" user is 
>> rightly set, test "su - postgres" at the shell prompt and, then if 
>> you are prompted for the password, type "postgres". If something goes 
>> wrong, postgres need to be reinstalled (prefer the Marc Liyanage's 
>> installer -- <http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/postgresql/>).
> Sorry , don't know what and where the activity monitor is.
> The su - postgres is ok.
> And I did use entropy's installation.

[Hershel-Fischs-Computer:~] hershel% su - postgres
Password:
[Hershel-Fischs-Computer:~] postgres% /usr/local/bin/pg_ctl stop -D 
/usr/local/pgsql/data/
waiting for postmaster to shut down......done
postmaster successfully shut down
[Hershel-Fischs-Computer:~] postgres% /usr/local/bin/postmaster -D 
/usr/local/pgsql/data -i
LOG:  database system was shut down at 2004-08-31 19:11:05 EDT
LOG:  checkpoint record is at 0/C1E4D0
LOG:  redo record is at 0/C1E4D0; undo record is at 0/0; shutdown TRUE
LOG:  next transaction id: 6911; next oid: 19457
LOG:  database system is ready

>>
>>
>>> 4) "put  revOpenDatabase("MySQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,)" when 
>>> I don't have mySql running, into the message box crashes or Freezes 
>>> RR.
>>
>> Don't tell RR to connect MySQL if you want to access a PostgreSQL 
>> server...
>>
>>> Thanks in advanced. Hershel
>>
>> Hope this can help,
>>
>> Best, Pierre
>>
>>
>> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>>
>> 100, rue de Paris
>> F - 77140 Nemours
>>
>> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>>
>> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
>> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>>
>> WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
>> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From herz at ucsd.edu  Tue Aug 31 19:39:48 2004
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:39:48 -0700
Subject: New RunRev site...
References: <20040831221103.D4D08930124@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00d901c48fb3$d16b13b0$58bfef84@maerkhpc1>

The pages at the new site load slowly here (fast connection at university in 
western US on 2.2GHz PC).  Maybe it's slow because we are all hitting the 
site today or, hopefully, all the new customers are hitting it...

Also would expect rollover effects on the main navigation links but don't 
see them.

Rich Herz 



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Aug 31 19:43:12 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:13:12 +0930
Subject: Bugzilla and Dox in nested folder
In-Reply-To: <791ECB1E-FB93-11D8-8ACB-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHGELCEPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>



OK... looks like we need to reopen that one.

>BTW, this was bugzilla 2088 and I have some additional information to
>share:
>
>It not only hangs the documentation but it often hangs Rev
>(necessitating a forced quit), unless you exit the dox immediately.
>
>Temporary fix:  Just don't use special characters (like ??  opt-f,
>opt-; ) in naming any of the folders Rev 2.5 is nested in.
>
>M
>
>
>On Aug 31, 2004, at 4:49 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> Where did Bugzilla go to?  I got an email yesterday reporting that the
>> problem with the Rev Dox giving an xmlerr if Rev resides in a folder
>> whose path includes special characters (namely  ? ?) was resolved. But
>> it is definitely NOT resolved in 2.5 final release.
>>
>> OS X version: go to documentation, click on dictionary (select a few
>> items, works fine). Now click on topics, get message box with xmlerr,
>> can't parse xml.  Don't get topics list AND I can no longer select an
>> item in the dictionary and see its definition--dox are stuck on the
>> page for the last dictionary entry I viewed.
>>
>> M
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug 31 19:50:39 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:50:39 -0500
Subject: Bugzilla - New Location
Message-ID: <BD5A78FF.4DE2%kray@sonsothunder.com>

After RunRev revamped their site, Bugzilla got moved. This is the new URL:

  http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/query.cgi?GoAheadAndLogIn=1

If you haven't already gotten the notice about RevZIlla 1.1.3 (I sent it
before this one and didn't see it on the list before I sent this), you can
get it from RevNet - 1.1.3 works with the new Bugzilla location.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Aug 31 20:00:57 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:00:57 -0700
Subject: O'Reilly OS X Conference Will Have Rev Session
Message-ID: <000B5D91-FBAA-11D8-BFE3-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

Just thought the list might be interested in knowing that a proposal I 
made to the O'Reilly folks about presenting a session on our favorite 
programming tool at their upcoming Mac OS X conference (details at 
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/macosx2004/). My plan is to include a 
walk-through of a representative sampling of programs written in 
Revolution as 1/3 of the presentation, so if you have any ideas or 
suggestions, please let me know.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 31 20:15:31 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:15:31 -0400
Subject: Bugzilla and Dox in nested folder
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHGELCEPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHGELCEPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <08F46A1E-FBAC-11D8-8ACB-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Monte,

Do I need to update the bugzilla or are you saying what you have now is 
sufficient? (I did cc support with the email appended below).

M
On Aug 31, 2004, at 7:43 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>
>
> OK... looks like we need to reopen that one.
>
>> BTW, this was bugzilla 2088 and I have some additional information to
>> share:
>>
>> It not only hangs the documentation but it often hangs Rev
>> (necessitating a forced quit), unless you exit the dox immediately.
>>
>> Temporary fix:  Just don't use special characters (like ??  opt-f,
>> opt-; ) in naming any of the folders Rev 2.5 is nested in.
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>> On Aug 31, 2004, at 4:49 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>>
>>> Where did Bugzilla go to?  I got an email yesterday reporting that 
>>> the
>>> problem with the Rev Dox giving an xmlerr if Rev resides in a folder
>>> whose path includes special characters (namely  ? ?) was resolved. 
>>> But
>>> it is definitely NOT resolved in 2.5 final release.
>>>
>>> OS X version: go to documentation, click on dictionary (select a few
>>> items, works fine). Now click on topics, get message box with xmlerr,
>>> can't parse xml.  Don't get topics list AND I can no longer select an
>>> item in the dictionary and see its definition--dox are stuck on the
>>> page for the last dictionary entry I viewed.
>>>
>>> M
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 31 20:19:04 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:19:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: horsebecardiff
In-Reply-To: <BD591604.2608%themacguy@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <20040901001904.48535.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Barry Levine <themacguy at macosx.com> wrote:

> A-ha! Set the label before calling the dialog.
> My "send..." attempt put the 
> cart before the horse.

"horsebecardiff" is a strangely haunting
made-up-by-a-deaf-person expression.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Aug 31 20:35:01 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:05:01 +0930
Subject: Bugzilla and Dox in nested folder
In-Reply-To: <08F46A1E-FBAC-11D8-8ACB-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHMELEEPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


I just reopened.

--
  Monte Goulding - monte at sweattechnologies.com
  Sweat Technologies

  InstallGadget - How To Create An Installer In 10 Seconds
  http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget


>-----Original Message-----
>From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Marian
>Petrides
>Sent: Wednesday, 1 September 2004 9:46 AM
>To: How to use Revolution
>Subject: Re: Bugzilla and Dox in nested folder
>
>
>Monte,
>
>Do I need to update the bugzilla or are you saying what you have now is
>sufficient? (I did cc support with the email appended below).
>
>M
>On Aug 31, 2004, at 7:43 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> OK... looks like we need to reopen that one.
>>
>>> BTW, this was bugzilla 2088 and I have some additional information to
>>> share:
>>>
>>> It not only hangs the documentation but it often hangs Rev
>>> (necessitating a forced quit), unless you exit the dox immediately.
>>>
>>> Temporary fix:  Just don't use special characters (like ??  opt-f,
>>> opt-; ) in naming any of the folders Rev 2.5 is nested in.
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 31, 2004, at 4:49 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where did Bugzilla go to?  I got an email yesterday reporting that
>>>> the
>>>> problem with the Rev Dox giving an xmlerr if Rev resides in a folder
>>>> whose path includes special characters (namely  ? ?) was resolved.
>>>> But
>>>> it is definitely NOT resolved in 2.5 final release.
>>>>
>>>> OS X version: go to documentation, click on dictionary (select a few
>>>> items, works fine). Now click on topics, get message box with xmlerr,
>>>> can't parse xml.  Don't get topics list AND I can no longer select an
>>>> item in the dictionary and see its definition--dox are stuck on the
>>>> page for the last dictionary entry I viewed.
>>>>
>>>> M
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Aug 31 20:51:13 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:51:13 -0300
Subject: [ANN]ChatRev1.2
In-Reply-To: <269F944A-FB4E-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
References: <269F944A-FB4E-11D8-A583-000D932AE9E0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <05E96D16-FBB1-11D8-AEFF-0003936D012E@mac.com>



Bjoernke,

thanks for the protocol doc! :D

bots, I mean, smart agents will come... hauhahuahahu


Cheers
andre


On Aug 31, 2004, at 10:03 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

> Its time again to update your chatrev stack. New features are:
> Several bug fixes
> UI enhancements
> Multi line messages
> styled text messages
>
> also new since this release are 3th party chat stacks. Several people 
> are working on these, and will release them when its time.
>
> Download chatrev 1.2 by typing this into the message box:
> go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.2.rev"
>
> look at the server with its new UI:
> go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrevserver1.2.rev"
>
> you might also be interested in a short summary about the chatrev 
> protocol:
> http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev.txt
>
> have fun!
> Bjoernke
>
> <>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>()<>
> Chat with other RunRev developers:
> go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.2.rev"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Aug 31 20:55:10 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:55:10 -0300
Subject: WebDAV implementation?
In-Reply-To: <8BB123F0-FB97-11D8-8BEE-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <8BB123F0-FB97-11D8-8BEE-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <9364B378-FBB1-11D8-AEFF-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 31, 2004, at 6:48 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> Has anyone done a WebDAV implementation in RunRev?  Would they be 
> willing to share it?
>
> Thanks,

Frank,

I did http and ftp, so, let me see if the spec for webdav is sane 
enough.... I might be able to coin something, are you talking server 
side webdav or client side?

if you need this on a hurry, then if you're using macos x, you can use 
applescript to mount webdav volumes, they'll be like folders inside 
/Volumes

Cheers
andre



> -- Frank Leahy
>
> Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
> See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Aug 31 20:58:08 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:58:08 -0300
Subject: O'Reilly OS X Conference Will Have Rev Session
In-Reply-To: <000B5D91-FBAA-11D8-BFE3-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
References: <000B5D91-FBAA-11D8-BFE3-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <FD49AB7B-FBB1-11D8-AEFF-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 31, 2004, at 9:00 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Just thought the list might be interested in knowing that a proposal I 
> made to the O'Reilly folks about presenting a session on our favorite 
> programming tool at their upcoming Mac OS X conference (details at 
> http://conferences.oreillynet.com/macosx2004/). My plan is to include 
> a walk-through of a representative sampling of programs written in 
> Revolution as 1/3 of the presentation, so if you have any ideas or 
> suggestions, please let me know.
>

Dan,

I can send you my private iBlog blog client (it will be public soon), 
it's easy to understand, and shows the potential...

Andre



-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Aug 31 21:36:27 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:36:27 -0300
Subject: WebDAV implementation?
In-Reply-To: <9364B378-FBB1-11D8-AEFF-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <8BB123F0-FB97-11D8-8BEE-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<9364B378-FBB1-11D8-AEFF-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <577E57CE-FBB7-11D8-AEFF-0003936D012E@mac.com>


On Aug 31, 2004, at 9:55 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

>> Has anyone done a WebDAV implementation in RunRev?  Would they be 
>> willing to share it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>
>

It is doable, I just read three articles on WebDAV and browsed the 
specs, it's like a super set of HTTP1.1 (new methods) and some fancy 
weird XMLs... I'll try to cook a client lib as soon as I finish the 
FTPd implementation. Anyone here with 2.5 can say to me if we can 
listen to secure sockets?

Andre



-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug 31 21:41:29 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:41:29 -0500
Subject: [ANN] RevZilla 1.1.3 is Available
Message-ID: <BD5A92F9.4DF0%kray@sonsothunder.com>

RevZilla 1.1.3 is available, with the primary change being that it works
with the new location of Bugzilla (support.runrev.com/bugdatabase).

A much more enhanced version of RevZilla is under development and will be
released as RevZilla 2.0, and I wasn't planning on releasing an interim
build but the web site change demanded that I do so.

So until RevZilla 2.0 is released, RevZilla 1.1.3 will only be available
through RevNet (Development -> Plugins - Go RevNet, click on "Stacks")

I'll keep you all posted,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Aug 31 22:07:05 2004
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 03:07:05 +0100
Subject: Externals SDK
In-Reply-To: <BD5A92F9.4DF0%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040901025736.0217a308@mail.tweedly.net>


I had a look at the externals sdk info from the new site 
http://support.runrev.com/resources/externals.php and had some problems - 
but I'm still using 2.5B1 so I'm wondering if they still occur using the 
released version of 2.5  - if they do, I'd like to BZ them, but won't until 
I know if they still happen. (I'm waiting for the license server to give me 
a 2.5 license key, so can't try it myself yet).

When I run the stack that came as part the externals sdk, and try out the 
examples, I get various errors (note this is just looking at the stack that 
came in the package - not building any externals).

The Convolve example fails with "Handler not found", the Life example fails 
with
"Function: error in function handler"

Thanks
-- Alex.

From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Aug 31 21:58:24 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:58:24 -0300
Subject: about upgrading from 2.2 to 2.5?
Message-ID: <6871A04A-FBBA-11D8-AEFF-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I own a Rev Studio license for 2.2. Must I pay a new full license for 
2.5? is there an upgrade option? I would love to try the new features, 
but money is as short as always... :-/

cheers
andre
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From bvlahos at mac.com  Tue Aug 31 22:00:16 2004
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:00:16 -0700
Subject: Downloads page workaround (was Re: New RunRev site...)
In-Reply-To: <FC150EC5-FB8C-11D8-8ACB-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <4134B813.10108@chipp.com>
	<a06110434bd5a7ed426b1@[141.89.100.235]>
	<ACA2D54A-FB8B-11D8-A3A1-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>
	<FC150EC5-FB8C-11D8-8ACB-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AB3098F4-FBBA-11D8-9CC5-003065EC5590@mac.com>

I was wondering the same thing. Thanks for the URL.

Other that that oversight I agree that the new site is fabulous.

Bill Vlahos

On Aug 31, 2004, at 1:33 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Until RunRev gets around to fixing this oversight, the url for the 
> downloads page is:
>
> http://downloads.runrev.com/revolution/
>
> M


From katir at hindu.org  Tue Aug 31 22:29:08 2004
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:29:08 -1000
Subject: Color picker problem with 2.5?
Message-ID: <B3C05ACC-FBBE-11D8-9FA6-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Is it just me, or does anyone else experience the color picker in Rev 
2.5 OSX , if you click the little magnifying glass to try to pick up a 
color from some other object... it is way off... does not actually show 
what is under the glass, but is focused to some other place  on the 
screen...

??


Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 31 22:35:07 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:35:07 -0400
Subject: Color picker problem with 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <B3C05ACC-FBBE-11D8-9FA6-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <B3C05ACC-FBBE-11D8-9FA6-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <8971327C-FBBF-11D8-A3A1-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>


On Aug 31, 2004, at 10:29 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Is it just me, or does anyone else experience the color picker in Rev 
> 2.5 OSX , if you click the little magnifying glass to try to pick up a 
> color from some other object... it is way off... does not actually 
> show what is under the glass, but is focused to some other place  on 
> the screen...

Not seeing that. OSX.3.5
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Tue Aug 31 22:34:40 2004
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:34:40 -0700
Subject: dragging 2 windows in synch
Message-ID: <7953D802-FBBF-11D8-B06D-000A95AFF636@elementarysoftware.com>

Hello,
Is there a technique to maintain the relative location of a secondary 
stack while dragging the primary stack.  I'm not looking to just update 
the window location after the move has completed but to visually  drag 
it along with the window that the user is moving.  I'm building 
routines for simulating drawer behaviors outside of OSX.
Thanks,
-Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
http://elementarysoftware.com/

(Now with 20% less chalk dust !)


From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Aug 31 22:35:03 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:35:03 -0700
Subject: O'Reilly OS X Conference Will Have Rev Session
In-Reply-To: <FD49AB7B-FBB1-11D8-AEFF-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <000B5D91-FBAA-11D8-BFE3-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>
	<FD49AB7B-FBB1-11D8-AEFF-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <87305EB2-FBBF-11D8-9C00-000A95AE42E6@danshafer.com>

COol

Dan

On Aug 31, 2004, at 5:58 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

>
> On Aug 31, 2004, at 9:00 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> Just thought the list might be interested in knowing that a proposal 
>> I made to the O'Reilly folks about presenting a session on our 
>> favorite programming tool at their upcoming Mac OS X conference 
>> (details at http://conferences.oreillynet.com/macosx2004/). My plan 
>> is to include a walk-through of a representative sampling of programs 
>> written in Revolution as 1/3 of the presentation, so if you have any 
>> ideas or suggestions, please let me know.
>>
>
> Dan,
>
> I can send you my private iBlog blog client (it will be public soon), 
> it's easy to understand, and shows the potential...
>
> Andre
>
>
>
> -- 
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Aug 31 22:39:06 2004
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:39:06 -0400
Subject: Streamed QT
Message-ID: <1800C5B0-FBC0-11D8-A3A1-000A95A09CF8@rpsystems.net>

I am trying to connect to some streamed QT media (RTSP MPG4) in Rev 
2.5... the connection is very slow and unstable, and generally the 
player cannot negotiate a connection. QuickTime player connects 
instantaneously, as does Director via QT. In fact, I can leave Rev 
trying to negotiate the connection, and launch either of the other two 
and connect easily... return to Rev to find that it has failed or is 
still trying.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Aug 31 22:56:03 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:56:03 -0500
Subject: dragging 2 windows in synch
In-Reply-To: <7953D802-FBBF-11D8-B06D-000A95AFF636@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <BD5AA473.4E03%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 8/31/04 9:34 PM, "Scott Morrow" <scott at elementarysoftware.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> Is there a technique to maintain the relative location of a secondary
> stack while dragging the primary stack.  I'm not looking to just update
> the window location after the move has completed but to visually  drag
> it along with the window that the user is moving.  I'm building
> routines for simulating drawer behaviors outside of OSX.

Well, if it's for OS 9, you're probably out of luck unless you make your own
custom windows and your own drag regions. The reason is that the moveStack
message isn't sent until *after* you release the mouse on the Mac. Now if
this is for Windows, moveStack and resizeStack are sent continually so you
could probably get away with something like:

on moveWindow
  set the topLeft of stack "Secondary" to the topRight of this stack
end moveWindow

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Tue Aug 31 23:36:50 2004
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:36:50 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Downloads page workaround (was Re: New RunRev site...)
In-Reply-To: <20040831221103.D4D08930124@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040831221103.D4D08930124@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0408312230280.4386@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

Marian Petrides <mpetrides at earthlink.net>:
> On Aug 31, 2004, at 4:23 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
> > All very true, the site is much improved... however, I don't see any
> > way for existing customers to download the latest version without
> > signing up for a free trial and being emailed a trial key.
>
> Until RunRev gets around to fixing this oversight, the url for the
> downloads page is:
>
> http://downloads.runrev.com/revolution/

My studio license didn't unlock the version of 2.5 that can be
downloaded from this page -- in fact, my serial number is longer
than the spaces provided in the registration box.

Any clues as to how to upgrade a studio license?  I emailed Rev's
support but haven't heard back, and we've got to get our computer
image complete and installed in the lab by the time students return
on Tuesday.

Thanks,
  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

From bvlahos at mac.com  Tue Aug 31 23:47:50 2004
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:47:50 -0700
Subject: Downloads page workaround (was Re: New RunRev site...)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0408312230280.4386@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
References: <20040831221103.D4D08930124@mail.runrev.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0408312230280.4386@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <B2472A7A-FBC9-11D8-AF3F-003065EC5590@mac.com>

There is a link on the Rev page for converting your old-style license 
key to the new one. Go to Resources and Support and you will find the 
link called "license issues".

It sounds like the link should be automated but mine hasn't been 
processed yet. I figure it will take a day or so. Makes me a little 
frustrated as I can't use 2.5 yet. :(

Bill Vlahos

On Aug 31, 2004, at 8:36 PM, Marty Billingsley wrote:

> Marian Petrides <mpetrides at earthlink.net>:
>> On Aug 31, 2004, at 4:23 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>>> All very true, the site is much improved... however, I don't see any
>>> way for existing customers to download the latest version without
>>> signing up for a free trial and being emailed a trial key.
>>
>> Until RunRev gets around to fixing this oversight, the url for the
>> downloads page is:
>>
>> http://downloads.runrev.com/revolution/
>
> My studio license didn't unlock the version of 2.5 that can be
> downloaded from this page -- in fact, my serial number is longer
> than the spaces provided in the registration box.
>
> Any clues as to how to upgrade a studio license?  I emailed Rev's
> support but haven't heard back, and we've got to get our computer
> image complete and installed in the lab by the time students return
> on Tuesday.
>
> Thanks,
>   - marty
>
> --
> Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
> The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution