From valetia at mac.com  Tue Jul  1 00:23:01 2003
From: valetia at mac.com (valetia at mac.com)
Date: Tue Jul  1 00:23:01 2003
Subject: Fastest way to delete non-contiguous lines in list field
In-Reply-To: <3860B056-AB7D-11D7-971C-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB2755C5.2DE3A%valetia@mac.com>

Hi all,

What's the fastest way to delete non-contiguous lines in a list field? These
lines would be listed in the "hilitedLines".

TIA,
Valetia



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 01:05:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Jul  1 01:05:00 2003
Subject: Fastest way to delete non-contiguous lines in list field
In-Reply-To: <BB2755C5.2DE3A%valetia@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20030701055704.92050.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "valetia at mac.com" <valetia at mac.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> What's the fastest way to delete non-contiguous
> lines in a list field? These
> lines would be listed in the "hilitedLines".
> 
> TIA,
> Valetia
> 
> 

Hi Valetia,

Your problem would be that you have to either keep
track of the lines you have already deleted, or go
from the bottom to the top to avoid this but then you
can't use a 'repeat for each' construct, unless...
Try the following :

put the text of fld "Foobar" into tText
put the hilitedLines of fld "Foobar" into tLineNumbers
sort items of tLineNumbers numeric descending
repeat for each item tLineNumber in tLineNumbers
  delete line tLineNumber of tText
end repeat
set the text of field "Foobar" to tText

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
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From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul  1 01:19:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul  1 01:19:00 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <200306301954.PAA10562@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB267556.1A6C%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Helloah,

First I want to thank eveyone for the help with 'send in time'.

I took the basic premise I started from, then sliced off bits and pieces of
the posted scripts, reassembled them, refactored and hopefully reduced it.

What I came up with is this base to work from. It works great and seems very
stable. It's a scrolling field with upper and lower sections covered by
translucent graphics and an open box across the center (where the eventual
selection will take place). It has a few repeated lines at the head and tail
such that it smooth-scrolls endlessly in either direction.

(Currently) In a card script:

on mouseDown
   endlessScroller
end mouseDown

on endlessScroller
   constant scrollSpeedInterval = 10 -- will be a global later
   if the mouse is up then exit endlessScroller
   if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
     -- wrapover:
     if the vScroll of fld 1 = 0 then set the vScroll of fld 1 to 1345
     set the vScroll of fld 1 to (the vScroll of fld 1) - 1
   else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
     -- wrapover:
     if the vScroll of fld 1 ? 1345 then set the vScroll of fld 1 to 0
     set the vScroll of fld 1 to (the vScroll of fld 1) + 1
   end if
   send "endlessScroller" to me in scrollSpeedInterval milliseconds
end endlessScroller





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul  1 01:55:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul  1 01:55:00 2003
Subject: Fastest way to delete non-contiguous lines in list field
In-Reply-To: <20030701055704.92050.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB267C64.2FF32%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jan Schenkel wrote:

>> Hi all,
>> 
>> What's the fastest way to delete non-contiguous
>> lines in a list field? These
>> lines would be listed in the "hilitedLines".
...
> Your problem would be that you have to either keep
> track of the lines you have already deleted, or go
> from the bottom to the top to avoid this but then you
> can't use a 'repeat for each' construct, unless...
> Try the following :
> 
> put the text of fld "Foobar" into tText
> put the hilitedLines of fld "Foobar" into tLineNumbers
> sort items of tLineNumbers numeric descending
> repeat for each item tLineNumber in tLineNumbers
> delete line tLineNumber of tText
> end repeat
> set the text of field "Foobar" to tText

I think "sort" may be an expensive operation:

on mouseUp
  put 10000 into n -- iterations
  put fld 1 into tOrigList
  put the hilitedLines of fld 1 into tSelLines
  --
  -- Test 1:
  put the millisecs into t
  repeat n
    --
    put tOrigList into tList
    sort items of tSelLines numeric descending
    repeat for each item tLine in tSelLines
      delete line tLine of tList
    end repeat
    --
  end repeat
  put the millisecs - t into t1
  --
  -- Test 2:
  put the millisecs into t
  repeat n
    --
    put tOrigList into tList
    repeat for each item tLine in tSelLines
      put "ARBITRARY_DELETE_FLAG" into line tLine of tList
    end repeat
    replace "ARBITRARY_DELETE_FLAG"&cr with empty in tList
    --
  end repeat
  put the millisecs - t into t2
  --
  put t1 && t2  &&round( (t2/t1)*100) &"%"
end mouseUp

I don't know why the latter is as quick as it is, but here it seems about
40% faster than the one relying on "sort".

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Jul  1 02:18:00 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Tue Jul  1 02:18:00 2003
Subject: revDataFromQuery - list of columns
Message-ID: <000501c33f9f$d9e04750$39231e3e@Jez2>

I'm accessing an Access database via ODBC. How come I can do this:
put revDataFromQuery(,,db_id,"select * from pl where pl_team_id =
:1","tm_id") into field "Players"

but I cant replace the * with a list of columns. When I do this:

put revDataFromQuery(,,db_id,"select pl_id,pl_name,pl_desc from pl where
pl_team_id = :1","tm_id") into field "Players"

I get an error that it;s expecting a 2nd parameter. If you cant do this, is
there any way you can plug in parameters to a predefined query/record-set in
Database Query Builder?




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul  1 02:29:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul  1 02:29:01 2003
Subject: Cool word (sort of OT)
In-Reply-To: <200307010202.WAA18183@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB268595.1A72%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Say Monte... I really like your word:

> diggerence

Sounds like an Australian cross between digging and difference, as in a
difference with deeper significance.

Ken N.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Jul  1 02:33:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Jul  1 02:33:00 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <BB267556.1A6C%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BB26858C.D347%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Ken Norris wrote:

> I took the basic premise I started from, then sliced off bits and pieces of
> the posted scripts, reassembled them, refactored and hopefully reduced it.
> 
> What I came up with is this base to work from. It works great and seems very
> stable. It's a scrolling field with upper and lower sections covered by
> translucent graphics and an open box across the center (where the eventual
> selection will take place). It has a few repeated lines at the head and tail
> such that it smooth-scrolls endlessly in either direction.

> on mouseDown
> endlessScroller
> end mouseDown
> 
> on endlessScroller
> constant scrollSpeedInterval = 10 -- will be a global later
> if the mouse is up then exit endlessScroller
> if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
> -- wrapover:
> if the vScroll of fld 1 = 0 then set the vScroll of fld 1 to 1345
> set the vScroll of fld 1 to (the vScroll of fld 1) - 1
> else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
> -- wrapover:
> if the vScroll of fld 1 ? 1345 then set the vScroll of fld 1 to 0
> set the vScroll of fld 1 to (the vScroll of fld 1) + 1
> end if
> send "endlessScroller" to me in scrollSpeedInterval milliseconds
> end endlessScroller

You would do well to modify the above script to be more in keeping with the
examples provided because eventually you may find your script fails, ie
sticks in one direction or another (you are continually polling the mouse
state).

on mouseDown
   set the uAllowScroll of me to true
   endlessScroller
end mouseDown

on endlessScroller
   constant scrollSpeedInterval = 10 -- will be a global later
   if not the uAllowScroll of me then exit endlessScroller
   if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
     -- wrapover:
     if the vScroll of fld 1 = 0 then set the vScroll of fld 1 to 1345
     set the vScroll of fld 1 to (the vScroll of fld 1) - 1
   else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
     -- wrapover:
     if the vScroll of fld 1 ? 1345 then set the vScroll of fld 1 to 0
     set the vScroll of fld 1 to (the vScroll of fld 1) + 1
   end if
   send "endlessScroller" to me in scrollSpeedInterval milliseconds
end endlessScroller

on mouseUp
   set the uAllowScroll of me to false
end mouseUp

on mouseRelease
   mouseUp
end mouseRelease



Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul  1 02:37:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul  1 02:37:01 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <200307010202.WAA18183@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB268770.1A73%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Rob,

Please let me back up here:

> These two lines of your script defeat my purpose for using the 'send in
> time' construct, because they still use 'the mouse', which I'm trying to
> avoid:
> ----------
>> if the mouse is up then exit checkScroll
>> if the mouse is within graphic 1 then
----------
As it turns out, I think the problem isn't inherent in 'the mouse'
structures except when we try to put them in a repeat loop where they
swallow big gulps of processor time.

Consequently, I must apologize. I used a combination of changes to it, but I
think the basic 'send-in-time' to itself structure to cause the cycling is
OK.

With some alterations, I found the simplicity works OK (I posted my basic
working script). Thanks.

Ken N.



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul  1 02:53:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul  1 02:53:00 2003
Subject: Changing properties won't work
In-Reply-To: <200307010520.BAA24101@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB268B57.1A75%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello Jan,

> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:23:46 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Changing properties won't work
 
> Since you can add new things, I don't think the
> cantModify of the stack is true. A few questions :
> - can you make the changes via the message box ?
----------
Yes.
----------
> - does it happen in all stcks or just that one ?
----------
I tried another stack and it was OK. Once I went back after closing without
saving and I made a new field, then reworked the text. This time it stuck
OK.
----------
> - does it happen if you open another inspector ?
----------
Well, I thought it was, but it turned out as I was trying to do something
with a graphic border according to the tip in the colors section of the PI
that isn't correct for Macs. Took some serious digging to get at the
problem.
----------
> (RunRev re-uses older inspector palettes that are
> still in memory, so opening a second one will clone a
> fresh palette)
-----------
I think that was the problem. I was getting some error boxes and didn't
clear them, so there may have been something els there.
----------
> - if all of the above warrants it, have you tried
> reinstalling RunRev ?
----------
No need , I think.

Thanks so much,
Ken N.



From Cubist at aol.com  Tue Jul  1 03:24:01 2003
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Tue Jul  1 03:24:01 2003
Subject: More send in time
Message-ID: <169.20dfd4f6.2c329d21@aol.com>

sez pixelbird at interisland.net:
>What I came up with is this base to work from. It works great and seems very
>stable. It's a scrolling field with upper and lower sections covered by
>translucent graphics and an open box across the center (where the eventual
>selection will take place). It has a few repeated lines at the head and tail
>such that it smooth-scrolls endlessly in either direction.
>
>on endlessScroller
>   constant scrollSpeedInterval = 10 -- will be a global later
>   if the mouse is up then exit endlessScroller
>   if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
>     -- wrapover:
>     if the vScroll of fld 1 = 0 then set the vScroll of fld 1 to 1345
>     set the vScroll of fld 1 to (the vScroll of fld 1) - 1
>   else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
>     -- wrapover:
>     if the vScroll of fld 1 ? 1345 then set the vScroll of fld 1 to 0
>     set the vScroll of fld 1 to (the vScroll of fld 1) + 1
>   end if
>   send "endlessScroller" to me in scrollSpeedInterval milliseconds
>end endlessScroller
   Stop the presses! This looks like a job for... the MOD squad! Yes, MOD 
(short for "modulo"), the mild-mannered function which can make a perfectly 
normal counter cycle thru a limited number of values with no difficulty whatsoever! 
Here is an example of using MOD to cycle thru values from 1 to 10.

  put 1 into Fred
  repeat
    put 1 + (Fred mod 10) into Fred
  end repeat

   In this loop, the value of Fred increments from 1 to 10, and it does this 
over and over again. And here's a slight variation:

  put 1 into Fred
  repeat
    put (Fred + 1) mod 10 into Fred
  end repeat

   We again get the "eternal cycle" routine... but *this* time, it goes from 
*0* to *9*. Another slight variation:

  put 1 into Fred
  repeat
    put 1 + ((Fred + 10) mod 10) into Fred
  end repeat

   THis one cycles from 1 to 10 -- how boring -- but what's up with that 
redundant "+ 10" in there? Patience, my son, and all will become clear in the next 
variant:

  put 1 into Fred
  repeat
    put 1 + ((Fred + 10 - 2) mod 10) into Fred
  end repeat

   The first time thru the loop, Fred is 1. (1 + 10 - 2) is 9; 9 mod 10 is 9; 
and 9 + 1 is 10. Therefore, the first time thru the loop, Fred changes from 1 
to 10. Second time around, (10 + 10 - 2) is 18; 18 mod 10 is 8; and 8 + 1 is 
9 -- in other words, Fred changes from 10 to 9.
   In other words, the -2 in here makes the counter run *backwards*, from 10 
down to 1!

   Here, at last, is a "final" tweaked version of the EndlessScroller 
handler. Use it in good health...


on endlessScroller

  constant scrollSpeedInterval = 10 -- will be a global later

  if the mouse is up then exit endlessScroller

  if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
    set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1343) mod 1345
  else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
    set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345) mod 1345
  end if

  send "endlessScroller" to me in scrollSpeedInterval milliseconds

end endlessScroller

   Hope this helps...


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 04:26:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Jul  1 04:26:00 2003
Subject: Fastest way to delete non-contiguous lines in list field
In-Reply-To: <BB267C64.2FF32%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030701091805.91448.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> Jan Schenkel wrote:
> 
> >> Hi all,
> >> 
> >> What's the fastest way to delete non-contiguous
> >> lines in a list field? These
> >> lines would be listed in the "hilitedLines".
> ...
> > Your problem would be that you have to either keep
> > track of the lines you have already deleted, or go
> > from the bottom to the top to avoid this but then
> you
> > can't use a 'repeat for each' construct, unless...
> > Try the following :
> > 
> > put the text of fld "Foobar" into tText
> > put the hilitedLines of fld "Foobar" into
> tLineNumbers
> > sort items of tLineNumbers numeric descending
> > repeat for each item tLineNumber in tLineNumbers
> > delete line tLineNumber of tText
> > end repeat
> > set the text of field "Foobar" to tText
> 
> I think "sort" may be an expensive operation:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   put 10000 into n -- iterations
>   put fld 1 into tOrigList
>   put the hilitedLines of fld 1 into tSelLines
>   --
>   -- Test 1:
>   put the millisecs into t
>   repeat n
>     --
>     put tOrigList into tList
>     sort items of tSelLines numeric descending
>     repeat for each item tLine in tSelLines
>       delete line tLine of tList
>     end repeat
>     --
>   end repeat
>   put the millisecs - t into t1
>   --
>   -- Test 2:
>   put the millisecs into t
>   repeat n
>     --
>     put tOrigList into tList
>     repeat for each item tLine in tSelLines
>       put "ARBITRARY_DELETE_FLAG" into line tLine of
> tList
>     end repeat
>     replace "ARBITRARY_DELETE_FLAG"&cr with empty in
> tList
>     --
>   end repeat
>   put the millisecs - t into t2
>   --
>   put t1 && t2  &&round( (t2/t1)*100) &"%"
> end mouseUp
> 
> I don't know why the latter is as quick as it is,
> but here it seems about
> 40% faster than the one relying on "sort".
> 
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin 
> 

*sniffles* that's the second time in as many days that
'repeat for each' has betrayed me. *sobs*

By the way, the second script won't work correctly if
the user also selected the last line of the list
*grin*

Out of curiosity, how fast is this 'obvious' script in
comparison ?

    repeat for each line tLine in tOrigList
      add 1 to i
      if i is not among the items of tSelLines
      then put tLine & return after tList
    end repeat
    delete char -1 of tList

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 04:34:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Jul  1 04:34:00 2003
Subject: revDataFromQuery - list of columns
In-Reply-To: <000501c33f9f$d9e04750$39231e3e@Jez2>
Message-ID: <20030701092648.94053.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jez <jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm accessing an Access database via ODBC. How come
> I can do this:
> put revDataFromQuery(,,db_id,"select * from pl where
> pl_team_id =
> :1","tm_id") into field "Players"
> 
> but I cant replace the * with a list of columns.
> When I do this:
> 
> put revDataFromQuery(,,db_id,"select
> pl_id,pl_name,pl_desc from pl where
> pl_team_id = :1","tm_id") into field "Players"
> 
> I get an error that it;s expecting a 2nd parameter.
> If you cant do this, is
> there any way you can plug in parameters to a
> predefined query/record-set in
> Database Query Builder?
> 

Hi Jez,

Odd behaviour ; but then again I never use the ':n'
constructs ; have you tried the following ?
  put merge("SELECT pl_id,pl_name,pl_desc FROM pl
WHERE pl_team_id = [[tm_id]]") into tSQLQuery
  put revDataFromQuery(,,db_id,tSQLQuery)

As for using the Database Query Builder :
- make an extra query with the connection details ;
let's name it "pl_tm_id_query"
- now you can change the query and refresh any fields
connected to that query by scripting
  put merge("SELECT pl_id,pl_name,pl_desc FROM pl
WHERE pl_team_id = [[tm_id]]") into tSQLQuery
  revSetSQLOfQuery "pl_tm_id_query", tSQLQuery

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From n.thieberger at linguistics.unimelb.edu.au  Tue Jul  1 05:57:00 2003
From: n.thieberger at linguistics.unimelb.edu.au (Nicholas Thieberger)
Date: Tue Jul  1 05:57:00 2003
Subject: card names
In-Reply-To: <200306242345.TAA12553@www.runrev.com>
References: <200306242345.TAA12553@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p05010408bb2716adbb80@[211.28.229.30]>

It appears that card names cannot be digits but must include an 
alphabetic character, is that right? I have to name cards according 
to external filenames which can be entirely numeric, and when I try 
go cd NAME or go cd "NAME" it doesn't work, but go cd NAMEa does work 
(if I rename the card).

Nick


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 06:32:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Jul  1 06:32:00 2003
Subject: card names
In-Reply-To: <p05010408bb2716adbb80@[211.28.229.30]>
Message-ID: <20030701112458.4715.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Nicholas Thieberger wrote:
> It appears that card names cannot be digits but must
> include an 
> alphabetic character, is that right? I have to name
> cards according 
> to external filenames which can be entirely numeric,
> and when I try 
> go cd NAME or go cd "NAME" it doesn't work, but go
> cd NAMEa does work 
> (if I rename the card).
> 
> Nick
> 

Hi Nick,

The reason why you can't use all digits, is that when
you refer to card n, where n is a number, it thinks
you want card _number_ n (ie the n-th card), not card
_named_ n.
Quoting the number won't do the trick because the
engine interprets the parameter, sees it's a number
and tries to be helpful.
So put a "c" in front of the number, and you won't
have a problem.

Hope this cleared it up,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul  1 08:42:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul  1 08:42:01 2003
Subject: Fastest way to delete non-contiguous lines in list field
In-Reply-To: <20030701091805.91448.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB26DBE9.2FF59%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jan Schenkel wrote:

>>>> What's the fastest way to delete non-contiguous
>>>> lines in a list field? These
>>>> lines would be listed in the "hilitedLines".
>> ... 
> *sniffles* that's the second time in as many days that
> 'repeat for each' has betrayed me. *sobs*

'repeat for each' seems to remain the saviour of each version; it's the sort
that seems to be the difference.

> By the way, the second script won't work correctly if
> the user also selected the last line of the list
> *grin*

Good catch -- fixed below (along with displaying output to avoid such
oversights going forward <g>).
 
> Out of curiosity, how fast is this 'obvious' script in
> comparison ?
> 
> repeat for each line tLine in tOrigList
> add 1 to i
> if i is not among the items of tSelLines
> then put tLine & return after tList
> end repeat
> delete char -1 of tList

It benchmarks as the slowest of the three.

Here's an interesting thing:  Test 2 is faster only when the number of
selected lines is a fraction of the total lines.  When the number of
selectedlines is greater than about 20% of the total lines, Test 1 (your
original algorithm) is faster.

Given the greater clarity of your Test 1 and more general speed, I would
advocate using that one.  Good work.

This exercise carries a side benefit: it shows that "best" is sometimes not
an absolute, depending on the usage context.

Here's all three in a single script:


on mouseUp
  put 1000 into n -- iterations
  put fld 1 into tOrigList
  put the hilitedLines of fld 1 into tSelLines
  --
  -- Test 1:  Jan, 30 June
  put the millisecs into t
  repeat n
    --
    put empty into tList1
    put tOrigList into tList1
    sort items of tSelLines numeric descending
    repeat for each item tLine in tSelLines
      delete line tLine of tList1
    end repeat
    --
  end repeat
  put the millisecs - t into t1
  --
  -- Test 2: Richard, 30 June
  put the millisecs into t
  repeat n
    --
    put empty into tList2
    put tOrigList&cr into tList2
    repeat for each item tLine in tSelLines
      put "ARBITRARY_DELETE_FLAG" into line tLine of tList2
    end repeat
    replace "ARBITRARY_DELETE_FLAG"&cr with empty in tList2
    --
  end repeat
  delete char -1 of tList2
  put the millisecs - t into t2
  --
  -- Test 3:  Jan, 1 July
  put the millisecs into t
  repeat n
    --
    put empty into tList3
    put 0 into i
    repeat for each line tLine in tOrigList
      add 1 to i
      if i is not among the items of tSelLines
      then put tLine & return after tList3
    end repeat
    delete char -1 of tList3
    --
  end repeat
  put the millisecs - t into t3
  --
  put t1 && t2  && t3 &cr&&cr& tList1 &cr&cr& tList2 &cr&cr& tList3
end mouseUp


-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Jul  1 09:31:00 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue Jul  1 09:31:00 2003
Subject: Cool word (sort of OT)
In-Reply-To: <BB268595.1A72%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <D2E4600E-ABCF-11D7-A253-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Monday, June 30, 2003, at 09:25  PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Say Monte... I really like your word:
>
>> diggerence
>
> Sounds like an Australian cross between digging and difference, as in a
> difference with deeper significance.
>
> Ken N.

That sounds about right, but what about the meaning among different 
iterations of the root form, like say "indiggerence" for instance. One 
might think indiggerence be an indigenous form of deeper significance.

Sorry for the local humor ...



From RGould8 at aol.com  Tue Jul  1 10:09:00 2003
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Tue Jul  1 10:09:00 2003
Subject: how to write text file to root of HD
Message-ID: <c5.35cec86b.2c32fc34@aol.com>

I'm having a rough time trying to get Revolution to write a text file to the 
root of the user's hard-drive.   Wouldn't it be something like this?

put "\" & line 1 of the volumes & "\filetowrite.txt" into filetowrite

open filetowrite for write
write "test" to file filetowrite
close file filetowrite

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From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch  Tue Jul  1 10:15:00 2003
From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo)
Date: Tue Jul  1 10:15:00 2003
Subject: Some basic questions about fld tables
In-Reply-To: <E66D959E-9D17-11D7-86F1-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BB275449.B2B4%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>

Hello!
I have problems with Fields like Table.
How is it possible to put text into cell 1/3 (row 1 col 3)
How is it possible to read something in a cell (the same by example)?
How is it possible to say "put "taratata" into the first row empty in the
table"?
If you have one answer to all these questions or only to one, you are
welcome!

I have searched in all the doc, with the plugin, but nothing about that I
think!

Thank you
Fran?ois

-------------- 
Fran?ois Cuneo
Site Web d?di? au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Tue Jul  1 10:32:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Tue Jul  1 10:32:01 2003
Subject: mac OS X package
Message-ID: <1A9A3447-ABD8-11D7-AC67-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

I've 3 problems with Building apps for Mac OS X with Rev 2.0


1) when i ask the build stack, this is two small, I don't have access 
to the button at the bottom of the window ????


2) When I build an app, then ask show contents of the packages, where 
are the substacks files ?

3) I've chosen an icon for my app (a jpeg file) clicking on the button 
"choose" but the app doesn't have this icon The app has the generic 
icon of mac OS X app.



Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul  1 10:39:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul  1 10:39:01 2003
Subject: how to write text file to root of HD
In-Reply-To: <c5.35cec86b.2c32fc34@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BB26F74E.2FF6D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> I'm having a rough time trying to get Revolution to write a text file to the
> root of the user's hard-drive.   Wouldn't it be something like this?
> 
> put "\" & line 1 of the volumes & "\filetowrite.txt" into filetowrite
> 
> open filetowrite for write
> write "test" to file filetowrite
> close file filetowrite

It depends on the OS you're running.

Given the range of potential issues with file I/O, it's a useful habit to
check the result after opening a file.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul  1 10:43:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul  1 10:43:01 2003
Subject: Some basic questions about fld tables
In-Reply-To: <BB275449.B2B4%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>
Message-ID: <BB26F849.2FF6E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Fran?ois Cuneo wrote:

> I have problems with Fields like Table.
> How is it possible to put text into cell 1/3 (row 1 col 3)
> How is it possible to read something in a cell (the same by example)?
> How is it possible to say "put "taratata" into the first row empty in the
> table"?
> If you have one answer to all these questions or only to one, you are
> welcome!

Multi-column fields are like any other field, just with the hGrid and vGrid
properties set.  When cGrid is st on a field that contains tabs, text is
drawn clipped to the boundaries of the tabStops.

Rows are delimited by returns, columns by tabs.  You can set the itemdel to
tab and use chunk expressions like:

   put "SomeValue" into item 2 of line 3

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul  1 10:46:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul  1 10:46:00 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <200307011243.IAA31442@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB26FA24.1A7E%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello Scott,

> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 00:25:48 -0700
> Subject: Re: More send in time
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>

If this:

>> if the mouse is up then exit endlessScroller

...polls the mouse state, then why doesn't this:

> set the uAllowScroll of me to true

...poll the state of "uAllowScroll of me" in the same way?

These are the mechanics I don't understand. What, exactly, is the
difference? I ask because without that understanding I'm liable to do the
same type of thing again in a different setting.

TIA,
Ken N.



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul  1 10:52:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul  1 10:52:00 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <BB267556.1A6C%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <DDE09541-ABDA-11D7-B1DA-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, June 30, 2003, at 09:16 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> I took the basic premise I started from, then sliced off bits and 
> pieces of
> the posted scripts, reassembled them, refactored and hopefully reduced 
> it.

I'm glad you are able to get into this.

I would like to point out to all that Jan's example, Ken's masterpiece, 
and both of Scott's examples have a feature that if left in when one 
tries to generalize the approach can be a problem.  That feature has 
been in some that I have presented, too.

In the up-and-coming real-soon-now totally-free "A Primer on Message 
Mechanics" (formerly send primer) is a checklist for the desired 
starting behavior and a potential multiple cycles.  The key question 
for here is in essence:

      Can multiple calls to the start handler create multiple cycles?
      How about if they are executed quickly in succession?

Well, examples used intervals of 10, 20 and 50 ms, so repeated 
mouseDown while a message is pending is unlikely, but if one increases 
that drastically, or tries to apply this a different way, there can be 
trouble.  Imagine an interval of 800 ms and 
down-up-down-up-dooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwn.

The primer starts out with a simple example that does not use the 
message ID as all of these examples.  The primer introduces some 
concepts slowly, so the ID is introduced later.  It solves this problem 
by using a third state in the state variable, on that I intend to be 
natural in the example.

Partially by isolating start and stop handlers and paying attention to 
the state variables, the primer introduces an approach to building 
message machines that are stable and robust, suitable for building into 
complex machinery including that with custom and built-in callbacks.  
Well, that's my goal anyway.  The first half, of course, is primarily 
about send.

I'm hammering some at this every day.

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul  1 10:58:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul  1 10:58:01 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <BB267556.1A6C%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <AF51077E-ABDB-11D7-B1DA-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

I'm babbling on, but I wanted to add one more thing about using send.

 From these examples and from most I've seen on this list including 
mine, one can get the impression that send is useful only for repeated 
execution, a sort of glorified idle.  However, send can be used to 
build timeouts, delays, activity sensors (retrigerable oneshots for you 
electronics types) and other mechanisms, even in concert with 
callbacks, such as sockets callbacks.  These message machines, as I 
call them, can be used to interact with other message machines.

Dar Scott




From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Jul  1 10:59:01 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue Jul  1 10:59:01 2003
Subject: Speaking of voices
In-Reply-To: <200306301602.MAA02730@www.runrev.com>
References: <200306301602.MAA02730@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb275c533509@[66.81.143.4]>

>
>Message: 8
>Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 20:41:55 -0400
>Subject: Re: Speaking of voices
>From: Ken Norris <pixelbird at interisland.net>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>>  Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:18:04 -0700
>>  From: Jim Hurley
>>  Subject: Speaking of voices
>
>snip
>
>>  on mouseUP
>>  revsetspeechVoice "Bruce"
>>  if revIsSpeaking() then
>>  revstopSpeech
>>  else revspeak me
>>  end mouseUP
>----------
>The above won't work properly because you needed set the stop condition
>first, otherwise it just starts up the speech sequence on mouseUp, which
>will kill and ignore any previous condition.
>
>This is normal AFAIK with conditional statements. The above is simply out of
>sequence, so it just keeps starting up from scratch like it did the first
>time.


Ken,

I confess I didn't follow what you are saying here. Why would one 
need to set the stop condition first?

Without the line:

  RevSetSpeechVoice "Bruce",

  the mouseUP handler works as expected. It would appear that that 
line affects the conditional statement that follows. Why is that 
normal AFAIK behavior? And, of course, what does the acronym mean? 
:-)

Jim


From edgore at shinra.com  Tue Jul  1 11:26:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Tue Jul  1 11:26:00 2003
Subject: how to write text file to root of HD
Message-ID: <200307011618.h61GIaT63477@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

You are going to run into lots of cross platform problems witht he code below. On windows, for example, it will try to write to "\A:", which is probably not what you are after. I don't have a Mac handy, but I'm guessing that it's probably going to do something weird there as well.

If what you are looking for is to place a text file in an easy to get to location for the user then I would recommend using the specialFolderPath function to put it on the desktop

set the defaultfolder to specialFolderPath(desktop)
open file "filetowrite.txt" for text write
write "test" to file "filetowrite.txt"
close file "filetowrite.txt"

or, if you really want it to go to the root directory (of the drive that the stack is on)then

-- find out where the stack is located
put the filename of this stack into lStackLocation
set the itemdelimiter to "/" -- to parse directories
set the defaultfolder to item 1 of lStackLocation & "/"
open file "filetowrite.txt" for text write
write "test" to file "filetowrite.txt"
close file "filetowrite.txt"

I've tested the above on Windows and it works - on Mac and LInux your milage may vary...

>> put "\" & line 1 of the volumes &
>"\filetowrite.txt" into filetowrite
>> 
>> open filetowrite for write
>> write "test" to file filetowrite
>> close file filetowrite
>
>It depends on the OS you're running.
>
>Given the range of potential issues with file I/O,
>it's a useful habit to
>check the result after opening a file.
>
>-- 
> Richard Gaskin 
> Fourth World Media Corporation
> Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on
>any site
>
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com	  
>http://www.FourthWorld.com
> Tel: 323-225-3717			  AIM:
>FourthWorldInc
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>___________________________________________________
>________
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul  1 11:36:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul  1 11:36:00 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <200307011243.IAA31442@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2705C3.1A7F%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy Cubist,

> From: Cubist at aol.com
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 04:15:29 EDT
> Subject: Re: More send in time

This is the core changes you made:

> if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
> set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1343) mod 1345
> else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
> set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345) mod 1345
> end if
----------
Problems:

This appears to cause it to scroll 2 pixels at a time in the UP direction
(fast but not smooth, and fixabable by turning '1343' into '1344'), but it
doesn't work at all in the DOWN direction (nothing happens).

So, what I did was change line 4 to say:

  set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345) mod 1344

...which makes it work, apparently correctly because it doesn't jump or
anything. I guess it starts it going down (in the correct direction for the
mouseLoc).

What say ye about that?

Ken N.




From edgore at shinra.com  Tue Jul  1 11:40:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Tue Jul  1 11:40:00 2003
Subject: Some basic questions about fld tables
Message-ID: <200307011632.h61GWQg67132@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Now that you have Richard's explaination of how to set up a field, here are the specific answers to you questions

>Hello!
>I have problems with Fields like Table.
>How is it possible to put text into cell 1/3 (row 1
>col 3)

put x into item 3 of line 1 of field "table"

>How is it possible to read something in a cell (the
>same by example)?

put item 3 of line 1 of field "table" into x 

>How is it possible to say "put "taratata" into the
>first row empty in the
>table"?
on mouseUp
-- go through the field looking for an empty row
Repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in field "table"
-- if you find an empty row, put the word in it
if line x of field "table" is empty then 
put "taratata" into item 1 of line x of field "table"
exit MouseUp
end if
end repeat
-- if you made it through the whole field and didn't find 
-- an empty line, add a line and put the word in it
put return & "taratata" after field "table"
end mouseUp


>If you have one answer to all these questions or
>only to one, you are
>welcome!
>
>I have searched in all the doc, with the plugin,
>but nothing about that I
>think!
>
>Thank you
>Fran=E7ois
>
>--------------=20
>Fran=E7ois Cuneo
>Site Web d=E9di=E9 au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
>E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From edgore at shinra.com  Tue Jul  1 11:47:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Tue Jul  1 11:47:00 2003
Subject: how to write text file to root of HD
Message-ID: <200307011639.h61Gd0F68822@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Oops! I see a mistake...to make the second example work on the Mac and Liux, I *think* you need to do some extra work - try:

-- find out where the stack is located
put the filename of this stack into lStackLocation
set the itemdelimiter to "/" -- to parse directories
-- check to see if you are on Windows and deal with it
if char 2 of lStackLocation is ":" then -- Windows
set the defaultfolder to item 1 of lStackLocation & "/"
else -- Mac and Linux
set the defaultfolder to ("/" & item 1 of lStackLocation & "/")
end if
open file "filetowrite.txt" for text write
write "test" to file "filetowrite.txt"
close file "filetowrite.txt"

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: "Edwin Gore" <edgore at shinra.com>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:18:35
>
>You are going to run into lots of cross platform
>problems witht he code below. On windows, for
>example, it will try to write to "\A:", which is
>probably not what you are after. I don't have a Mac
>handy, but I'm guessing that it's probably going to
>do something weird there as well.
>
>If what you are looking for is to place a text file
>in an easy to get to location for the user then I
>would recommend using the specialFolderPath
>function to put it on the desktop
>
>set the defaultfolder to specialFolderPath(desktop)
>
>open file "filetowrite.txt" for text write
>write "test" to file "filetowrite.txt"
>close file "filetowrite.txt"
>
>or, if you really want it to go to the root
>directory (of the drive that the stack is on)then
>
>-- find out where the stack is located
>put the filename of this stack into lStackLocation
>set the itemdelimiter to "/" -- to parse
>directories
>set the defaultfolder to item 1 of lStackLocation &
>"/"
>open file "filetowrite.txt" for text write
>write "test" to file "filetowrite.txt"
>close file "filetowrite.txt"
>
>I've tested the above on Windows and it works - on
>Mac and LInux your milage may vary...
>
>>> put "\" & line 1 of the volumes &
>>"\filetowrite.txt" into filetowrite
>>> 
>>> open filetowrite for write
>>> write "test" to file filetowrite
>>> close file filetowrite
>>
>>It depends on the OS you're running.
>>
>>Given the range of potential issues with file I/O,
>
>>it's a useful habit to
>>check the result after opening a file.
>>
>>-- 
>> Richard Gaskin 
>> Fourth World Media Corporation
>> Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database
>on
>>any site
>>
>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com	   
>>http://www.FourthWorld.com
>> Tel: 323-225-3717			   AIM:
>>FourthWorldInc
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>________
>>tion
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>__________________________________________________
>_
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revol
>u
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul  1 11:52:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul  1 11:52:01 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <200307011243.IAA31442@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB27098E.1A80%pixelbird@interisland.net>

OK gang,

Here's version 2 of the card script, with Scott's idea to eliminate mouse
polling, and Cubist's 'mod' idea (with alterations) implemented (thanks,
fellers):

on mouseDown
  set the uAllowScroll of me to true
  endlessScroller
end mouseDown

on endlessScroller
   constant scrollSpeedInterval = 10
   if not the uAllowScroll of me then exit endlessScroller
     if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
    set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1344) mod 1345
  else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
    set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345) mod 1344
  end if
   --if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
     --f the vScroll of fld 1 = 0 then set the vScroll of fld 1 to 1345 --
wrapover
     --set the vScroll of fld 1 to (the vScroll of fld 1) - 1
   --else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
     --if the vScroll of fld 1 ? 1345 then set the vScroll of fld 1 to 0
--wrapover
     --set the vScroll of fld 1 to (the vScroll of fld 1) + 1
   --end if
   send "endlessScroller" to me in scrollSpeedInterval milliseconds
end endlessScroller

on mouseUp
   set the uAllowScroll of me to false
end mouseUp

on mouseRelease
   mouseUp
end mouseRelease

...I don't see how it can get any more efficient, but anyone is welcome to
take a shot.

Next, I'll be adding the selection routines, also based on former HC stuff.

Thanks again,
Ken N.



From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Tue Jul  1 12:26:00 2003
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Tue Jul  1 12:26:00 2003
Subject: mac OS X package
In-Reply-To: <1A9A3447-ABD8-11D7-AC67-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <1E6666D2-ABE8-11D7-A230-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>

Point 1 and 3 were already addressed in the list.

1. open the stack "revdistributionbuilder.rev", it's located in the 
Revolution folder (components/tools). Modify the stack size and save it 
(may be do a backup copy before).

2. Sorry, I don't understand the problem. I don't have either substack 
files in the package, but I don't care, as the app runs.

3. icon must be "icns" format. You can use "IconComposer" provided with 
Apple development tools, or a shareware like" Iconographer".

Regards.

Thierry Arbellot.

On Tuesday, Jul 1, 2003, at 17:24 Europe/Paris, Yves COPPE wrote:

> I've 3 problems with Building apps for Mac OS X with Rev 2.0
>
>
> 1) when i ask the build stack, this is two small, I don't have access 
> to the button at the bottom of the window ????
>
>
> 2) When I build an app, then ask show contents of the packages, where 
> are the substacks files ?
>
> 3) I've chosen an icon for my app (a jpeg file) clicking on the button 
> "choose" but the app doesn't have this icon The app has the generic 
> icon of mac OS X app.
>
>
>
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
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From bornstein at designeq.com  Tue Jul  1 12:40:01 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Tue Jul  1 12:40:01 2003
Subject: mac OS X package
Message-ID: <200307011732.h61HWKni001683@nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com>

>I've 3 problems with Building apps for Mac OS X with Rev 2.0
>
>
>1) when i ask the build stack, this is two small, I don't have access 
>to the button at the bottom of the window ????

I've also seen this and it's been reported (again!)

>3) I've chosen an icon for my app (a jpeg file) clicking on the button 
>"choose" but the app doesn't have this icon The app has the generic 
>icon of mac OS X app.

I've only seen this if I'm building for OS X under OS 9. In addition, 
under OS 9, the Name and Info string fields in the Mac OS X tab never set 
the appropriate
strings in the plist. A Mac OS X standalone has the Info string set to
the Rev copyright info, and the name of the application is always set to
Revolution.

These problems seem to go away if you do this under OS X.

Regards,

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Jul  1 12:43:01 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Tue Jul  1 12:43:01 2003
Subject: revDataFromQuery - list of columns
References: <20030701092648.94053.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003001c33ff7$2b46ad30$39231e3e@Jez2>

My mistake - I had a typo in my list of columns - still it's an odd error to
get!
Thanks anyway - your answer pointed me to some useful techniques I wasnt
aware of.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jan Schenkel" <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: revDataFromQuery - list of columns


> --- Jez <jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > I'm accessing an Access database via ODBC. How come
> > I can do this:
> > put revDataFromQuery(,,db_id,"select * from pl where
> > pl_team_id =
> > :1","tm_id") into field "Players"
> >
> > but I cant replace the * with a list of columns.
> > When I do this:
> >
> > put revDataFromQuery(,,db_id,"select
> > pl_id,pl_name,pl_desc from pl where
> > pl_team_id = :1","tm_id") into field "Players"
> >
> > I get an error that it;s expecting a 2nd parameter.
> > If you cant do this, is
> > there any way you can plug in parameters to a
> > predefined query/record-set in
> > Database Query Builder?
> >
>
> Hi Jez,
>
> Odd behaviour ; but then again I never use the ':n'
> constructs ; have you tried the following ?
>   put merge("SELECT pl_id,pl_name,pl_desc FROM pl
> WHERE pl_team_id = [[tm_id]]") into tSQLQuery
>   put revDataFromQuery(,,db_id,tSQLQuery)
>
> As for using the Database Query Builder :
> - make an extra query with the connection details ;
> let's name it "pl_tm_id_query"
> - now you can change the query and refresh any fields
> connected to that query by scripting
>   put merge("SELECT pl_id,pl_name,pl_desc FROM pl
> WHERE pl_team_id = [[tm_id]]") into tSQLQuery
>   revSetSQLOfQuery "pl_tm_id_query", tSQLQuery
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."
(La Rochefoucauld)
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 12:43:11 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Jul  1 12:43:11 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <BB26FA24.1A7E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <20030701173556.51079.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ken Norris <pixelbird at interisland.net> wrote:
> Hello Scott,
> 
> > Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 00:25:48 -0700
> > Subject: Re: More send in time
> > From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
> 
> If this:
> 
> >> if the mouse is up then exit endlessScroller
> 
> ...polls the mouse state, then why doesn't this:
> 
> > set the uAllowScroll of me to true
> 
> ...poll the state of "uAllowScroll of me" in the
> same way?
> 
> These are the mechanics I don't understand. What,
> exactly, is the
> difference? I ask because without that understanding
> I'm liable to do the
> same type of thing again in a different setting.
> 
> TIA,
> Ken N.
> 

Hi Ken,

Polling the mouse state requires an expensive system
call ; polling the content of a script local variable
is handled by the engine and very fast.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Tue Jul  1 12:45:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Tue Jul  1 12:45:01 2003
Subject: mac OS X package
In-Reply-To: <1E6666D2-ABE8-11D7-A230-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <B3B5264B-ABEA-11D7-AC67-003065E14B04@skynet.be>


Le mardi, 1 juil 2003, ? 19:19 Europe/Brussels, Thierry Arbellot a 
?crit :

> Point 1 and 3 were already addressed in the list.
>
> 1. open the stack "revdistributionbuilder.rev", it's located in the 
> Revolution folder (components/tools). Modify the stack size and save 
> it (may be do a backup copy before).
>
> 2. Sorry, I don't understand the problem. I don't have either substack 
> files in the package, but I don't care, as the app runs.
>
> 3. icon must be "icns" format. You can use "IconComposer" provided 
> with Apple development tools, or a shareware like" Iconographer".
>
> Regards.
>
> Thierry Arbellot.
>

Thank you for your quick responses

1) i've found it and it's Ok. Sorry I didn't remind it was already 
discussed before
2) I've found it also with the solution of point 1 : there is a btn : 
move substacks into individual files (in step 2 of the builder)
3) I didn't know how to do. Now it's OK

Thank you very much.

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be
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From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Jul  1 12:53:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Jul  1 12:53:00 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <BB26FA24.1A7E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BB2716DC.7B52%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Ken Norris"  wrote:

> If this:
> 
>>> if the mouse is up then exit endlessScroller
> 
> ...polls the mouse state, then why doesn't this:
> 
>> set the uAllowScroll of me to true
> 
> ...poll the state of "uAllowScroll of me" in the same way?

The first example polls the physical hardware state of the mouse.  In
essence, the engine is repeatedly looking at the mouse to determine its
state.  The second example evaluates the value of a variable, which is much
more efficient (and reliable) than looking at the hardware.  There is little
to no overhead required to repeatedly check the value of a variable.


> These are the mechanics I don't understand. What, exactly, is the
> difference? I ask because without that understanding I'm liable to do the
> same type of thing again in a different setting.

The engine is extremely fast and reliable when it comes to checking the
value of a variable.  Given the fact that the developers of the tools have
repeatedly stated this is the correct way to handle checking the mouse
state, it would be worth your time to get in the habit of using this
technique. 

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Tue Jul  1 13:02:01 2003
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Tue Jul  1 13:02:01 2003
Subject: mac OS X package
In-Reply-To: <B3B5264B-ABEA-11D7-AC67-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <347D7190-ABED-11D7-A230-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>


On Tuesday, Jul 1, 2003, at 19:37 Europe/Paris, Yves COPPE wrote:

>
> Le mardi, 1 juil 2003, ? 19:19 Europe/Brussels, Thierry Arbellot a 
> ?crit :
>
>> Point 1 and 3 were already addressed in the list.
>>
>> 1. open the stack "revdistributionbuilder.rev", it's located in the 
>> Revolution folder (components/tools). Modify the stack size and save 
>> it (may be do a backup copy before).
>>
>> 2. Sorry, I don't understand the problem. I don't have either 
>> substack files in the package, but I don't care, as the app runs.
>>
>> 3. icon must be "icns" format. You can use "IconComposer" provided 
>> with Apple development tools, or a shareware like" Iconographer".
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Thierry Arbellot.
>>
>
> Thank you for your quick responses
>
> 1) i've found it and it's Ok. Sorry I didn't remind it was already 
> discussed before
> 2) I've found it also with the solution of point 1 : there is a btn : 
> move substacks into individual files (in step 2 of the builder)
> 3) I didn't know how to do. Now it's OK
>
> Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

>
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
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From Cubist at aol.com  Tue Jul  1 13:28:00 2003
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Tue Jul  1 13:28:00 2003
Subject: More send in time
Message-ID: <15.14b27f28.2c332ad3@aol.com>

sez pixelbird at interisland.net:
>Howdy Cubist,
>This is the core changes you made:
>
>> if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
>> set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1343) mod 1345
>> else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
>> set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345) mod 1345
>> end if
>
>----------
>
>Problems:
>This appears to cause it to scroll 2 pixels at a time in the UP direction
>(fast but not smooth, and fixabable by turning '1343' into '1344'), but
>it doesn't work at all in the DOWN direction (nothing happens).
   Yes. Looking back at my "1 to 10" examples, it's clear that I messed up 
when I tweaked your handler -- there shoulda been a "1 +" in each of the two 
"set the vScroll" statements.

>So, what I did was change line 4 to say:
>  set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345) mod 1344
>...which makes it work, apparently correctly because it doesn't jump or
>anything. I guess it starts it going down (in the correct direction for
>the mouseLoc).
>What say ye about that?
   I say I apologize for my initial error, and I say *this*...

  # note the "1 +"es!
  if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then

    set the vScroll of fld 1 to (1 + ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1343) mod 1345)

  else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then

    set the vScroll of fld 1 to (1 + ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345) mod 1345)

  end if

   ...ought to do the job.
   The reason for going with that silly "+ 1345" business is that you can get 
away with condensing the "set the vScroll" lines into one, like so:

  if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then put -2 into Direx else 
put 0 into Direx
  set the vScroll of fld 1 to (1 + ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345 + Direx) 
mod 1345)

   As long as this bit of code is *only* activated when the mouse is within 
one of your two "xxxScrollArea"s, it should work fine. Hmmm... try this on for 
size:

  # in card script
on ScrollControl
  if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
    ScrollDatPuppy (-2)
  else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
    ScrollDatPuppy (0)
  send "ScrollControl" to me in 10 milliseconds -- adjust to taste
end ScrollControl

on ScrollDatPuppy Direx
  set the vScroll of fld 1 to (1 + ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345 + Direx) 
mod 1345)
end ScrollDatPuppy

  Hope this helps...


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul  1 14:11:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul  1 14:11:01 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <15.14b27f28.2c332ad3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C05CE2BA-ABF6-11D7-B1DA-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

Some of the strange code with mod in this discussion is to compensate 
for the, uh, interesting behavior of the Revolution mod function with 
negative numbers.

If one's application elsewhere just happened to use knuthMod(), defined 
on page 38 of _Fundamental Algorithms_, then the math would be simpler 
and easier to read if that function was used here.

Dar Scott



From edgore at shinra.com  Tue Jul  1 14:23:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Tue Jul  1 14:23:00 2003
Subject: Huge stack bloat...
Message-ID: <200307011915.h61JFkA16652@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Okay...so, does cloning a card work VERY differently than creating a new card? I ask because I have a stack where in a previous version I was using create card, but then I put in some card scripts, which I wanted to have included in new cards based on a template card. I was lazy, and didn't want to go through the work of moving the scripts into a background, or moving them up to the stack level.

Now it used to be that with around 500 cards this stack would be 6-700K.

Now that I switched to making new cards by cloaing, the same number of cards is about 35mb.

Whejn you clone a card is it acually making new copies of all the objects on that card - INCLUDING BACKGROUNDS?!?!

That just seems...I dunno...crazy.


From cm_sheffield at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 14:24:01 2003
From: cm_sheffield at yahoo.com (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Tue Jul  1 14:24:01 2003
Subject: revDataFromQuery - list of columns
In-Reply-To: <003001c33ff7$2b46ad30$39231e3e@Jez2>
Message-ID: <20030701191629.64875.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com>

revSetSQLOfQuery "pl_tm_id_query", tSQLQuery

Can someone tell me where these commands and functions
are documented?  I can't seem to find them.  I've seen
other posts with similar actions for modifying data in
a Database Query Builder query, but I have no idea
exactly how to use them.  Can someone help?


=====
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
www.readnaturally.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Jul  1 14:49:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Jul  1 14:49:00 2003
Subject: Huge stack bloat...
In-Reply-To: <200307011915.h61JFkA16652@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <BB2731F2.7B6A%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Edwin Gore"  wrote:

> Okay...so, does cloning a card work VERY differently than creating a new card?

Yes -- cloning includes all card elements on the current card.  Creating a
new card creates an empty card.


> I ask because I have a stack where in a previous version I was using create
> card, but then I put in some card scripts, which I wanted to have included in
> new cards based on a template card. I was lazy, and didn't want to go through
> the work of moving the scripts into a background, or moving them up to the
> stack level.
> 
> Now it used to be that with around 500 cards this stack would be 6-700K.
> 
> Now that I switched to making new cards by cloaing, the same number of cards
> is about 35mb.
> 
> Whejn you clone a card is it acually making new copies of all the objects on
> that card - INCLUDING BACKGROUNDS?!?!

Yes.


> That just seems...I dunno...crazy.

Not really.  It's quite a timesaver when, as you say, one is feeling lazy
(you could substitute the word "productive" here) and doesn't want to go
through the hassle of copying all elements from one card to another.

You have both options for copying a card: create and clone.  Pick the option
that suits your need.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Tue Jul  1 14:58:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Tue Jul  1 14:58:00 2003
Subject: Huge stack bloat...
Message-ID: <200307011950.h61Jofx27557@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

>Not really.  It's quite a timesaver when, as you
>say, one is feeling lazy
>(you could substitute the word "productive" here)
>and doesn't want to go
>through the hassle of copying all elements from one
>card to another.

Ah well, I have paid for my laziness...it took my about 4 minutes to move everything around so it works right when you just use "create". Plus, now the fears I had about my sort and search routine sudddenly slowing to a crawl have been alleviated - the file is now a little under a meg, and everything is back to being super fast again...

Live and learn (well, sometimes learn).


From HyperChris at aol.com  Tue Jul  1 15:11:01 2003
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Tue Jul  1 15:11:01 2003
Subject: Table Fun
Message-ID: <66.339fd666.2c3342d5@aol.com>

I decided to finally cut the chord with HC and get with Revolution. I started 
to bang out my little project and saw this nifty little Table option in the 
Inspector. Oh boy...I have always wanted this! I played with it for 20 minutes, 
went through the documentation for 30 minutes, dowloaded the 45MB revlist 
archive and then played with it for 3 hours. Such is the life of a wannabe 
programmer. Anyways, I was right there with Graham and Jane as they discussed these 
tables in the list and in response I came up with a stack that explores this 
critter. 

If you want the stack it is at ... 
http://www.christophercomputers.com/rev.html

Here are the notes which may suffice ...

The 'cREVTable' custom property set.
I first set out to use the cREVTable values as a means of keeping people from 
going off the edge of the table and causing it to scroll right or down.

To discover that set and the values associated with it. I downloaded 
MetaCard's demo opened up this same stack and double-clicked on the field with the 
pointer tool. That gave me the Field Properties and then I clicked the Extras tab 
and clicked the Custom Properties button. In that window I could select the 
cREVTable set and then see all these things I have listed here.

Now some of these are very useful (currentXcell and currentYcell) and some of 
these are superfluous (bottomFieldLoc and topFieldLoc) as they match the 
object parameters and others simply don't work. For instance, you would think that 
currentCell would be the x,y cell location but instead it always says '3,2' 
Note that tCell also says this. Go figure!   Some the others are strange, too, 
such as the mouseLoc and cellEdit.

They have a serious scrolling problem. 
Notice how I made this table 3.5 colums wide? That is so you can click on the 
3rd column without causing it to scroll over. You will see this behaviour if 
you click on the fourth column. So for my application, I will draw it 
oversized like this but I will throw some sort of graphic on top of the fourth column 
to keep out unwanted clicks. Same problem at the bottom by the way. Very 
annoying but you can get around it.

The target function is tweaked when the table is the target.
 You do NOT get back 'field"table1" ' or something like that. Instead you get 
'revCell-3,6' no matter which table you picked and no matter what the name of 
the table was. So if you need to differentiate between two tables then you 
will probably have to do something with clickLoc and calc it out. The 
silver-lining here is that after the revCell part are the x,y cell coordinates and you 
do at least know that it was a table !

Tables don't get messages. 
That's right I said it ... string me up. You click on a table or do anything 
like that and you can forget a nice field script to trap and check the data. 
You will need to put in the card script which brings me to the next "challenge"

RawKeyData baby!
The only means I have so far to control this puppy is to parse keystrokes. In 
the card script you can see that I hard coded my table size (xLimit and 
yLimit) and then trapped for arrows and tabs and other such things to deal with the 
scroll. This would also be the place to prevent unwanted keystrokes. For 
example, I trapped for the [enter] key which allows one to put multiple lines into 
a cell. This is NOT the place to validate data only to trap keys. 

Data Validation
This is tricky so pay attention. If you trap keys then you are ahead of the 
data being "entered". If you look at the card script you will see that the 
'showCustomSetValues' are being called '20 milliseconds' after the keystroke has 
been passed. This is the point at which you would check cellValue and make any 
changes. So what if you want to change the data now. Well ... I'm not sure I 
see any betterway than to grab the field data and make the change like you 
normally would. Bummer huh.

Other things
I played with getting to the end of my matrix and using the 'click' command 
to wrap around and go to the first cell of the next row. However,   I crashed 
Rev several times with that and gve up.

Don't even think of trying to align the text within the cells. It will kill 
your table and that actually is in the documentation.

The cell formatting featue does appear to work although the inspector 
settings are a tad obtuse at first. 

Every time I go to the Table pane in the inspector it turns my scroll bars 
back on. argh.

I have not tried this as a runtime application yet. Geez. I hope it works.

Dear Rev Team
You guys are great. Great program. Great company. This will be a great 
feature with just a tad more work and some documentation!
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From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch  Tue Jul  1 15:49:01 2003
From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo)
Date: Tue Jul  1 15:49:01 2003
Subject: Some basic questions about fld tables
In-Reply-To: <BB26F849.2FF6E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BB27BEDE.B2FC%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>

> Fran?ois Cuneo wrote:
> 
>> I have problems with Fields like Table.
>> How is it possible to put text into cell 1/3 (row 1 col 3)
>> How is it possible to read something in a cell (the same by example)?
>> How is it possible to say "put "taratata" into the first row empty in the
>> table"?
>> If you have one answer to all these questions or only to one, you are
>> welcome!
> 
> Multi-column fields are like any other field, just with the hGrid and vGrid
> properties set.  When cGrid is st on a field that contains tabs, text is
> drawn clipped to the boundaries of the tabStops.
> 
> Rows are delimited by returns, columns by tabs.  You can set the itemdel to
> tab and use chunk expressions like:
> 
>  put "SomeValue" into item 2 of line 3
Richard and Edwin, thank you very much?
Friendly
Fran?ois

-------------- 
Fran?ois Cuneo
Site Web d?di? au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul  1 15:52:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul  1 15:52:01 2003
Subject: Huge stack bloat...
In-Reply-To: <200307011915.h61JFkA16652@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <DA07E570-AC04-11D7-B1DA-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 1, 2003, at 04:15 PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> Whejn you clone a card is it acually making new copies of all the 
> objects on that card - INCLUDING BACKGROUNDS?!?!

Oh.  Backgrounds.  Rats.

Dar



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Jul  1 16:04:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Jul  1 16:04:00 2003
Subject: Another Script Editing Tip
Message-ID: <BB274394.7B74%scott@tactilemedia.com>

When looking for ways to make script editing more convenient, I found the
following to be a simple and easy method which (best of all) allows me to
keep the browse tool active -- no need to switch to the pointer tool.

Place the following in the stack script:

on editScript?
  if the optionKey is "down" then
    edit script of the target
    exit to top
  end if
end editScript?

Then in any object whose script you want to edit often, place the line
"editScript?" at the top of its mouseUp handler:

on mouseUp
  editScript?
  ...
  ...
end mouseUp

Now you can quickly edit the script of any object whenever you alt+click
(option+click) the object with the browse tool.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 16:23:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  1 16:23:00 2003
Subject: newbies
In-Reply-To: <20030701041521.86607.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030701211538.6157.qmail@web20004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Igor, 
> > if it makes you feel any better,
> > i have no idea what a "popup in a field" is!
> > 
> > after seeing the news about conventions,
> > reviews, word of mouth, etc. it seems that
> > a newbie friendly atmosphere, like this list,
> > is a crucial force for sales growth,
> > which allows more for you advanced users.
> 
> A "popup in a field" means that the mouseDown
> handler
> in the field script calls the 'popup' command.
> Igor had a vertical text alignment problem
> between a
> field and a pulldown menu. Dar suggested he
> replaced
> the pulldown with another field, and use the
> 'popup' command instead.

thanks, there are so many new options.

Erik

=====
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 16:31:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  1 16:31:00 2003
Subject: Another Script Editing Tip
In-Reply-To: <BB274394.7B74%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <20030701212348.8649.qmail@web20003.mail.yahoo.com>

this is the first instance of a handler name
using chars other than numbers, letters, 
and "_" that i have seen. more wonders.

--- Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
> When looking for ways to make script editing
> more convenient, I found the
> following to be a simple and easy method which
> (best of all) allows me to
> keep the browse tool active -- no need to
> switch to the pointer tool.
> 
> Place the following in the stack script:
> 
> on editScript?
>   if the optionKey is "down" then
>     edit script of the target
>     exit to top
>   end if
> end editScript?
> 
> Then in any object whose script you want to
> edit often, place the line
> "editScript?" at the top of its mouseUp
> handler:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   editScript?
>   ...
>   ...
> end mouseUp
> 
> Now you can quickly edit the script of any
> object whenever you alt+click
> (option+click) the object with the browse tool.
> 

=====
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 16:45:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  1 16:45:01 2003
Subject: card names (& labels)
In-Reply-To: <20030701112458.4715.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030701213706.79863.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- Nicholas Thieberger wrote:
> > It appears that card names cannot be digits
> but must
> > include an 
> > alphabetic character, is that right? I have
> to name
> > cards according 
> > to external filenames which can be entirely
> numeric,
> > and when I try 
> > go cd NAME or go cd "NAME" it doesn't work,
> but go cd NAMEa does work 
> > (if I rename the card).

> The reason why you can't use all digits, is
> that when
> you refer to card n, where n is a number, it
> thinks
> you want card _number_ n (ie the n-th card),
> not card
> _named_ n.
> Quoting the number won't do the trick because
> the
> engine interprets the parameter, sees it's a
> number
> and tries to be helpful.
> So put a "c" in front of the number, and you
> won't have a problem.

i had this problem in an application where a
piano keyboard HAS to show numerals representing
ASCII code (middle C = "60"). the keyboard
buttons must be referenced when hiliting,
changing shape etc. what i did in HC was 
store the btn ids as comma delimited items 
in a fld, store the name numbers in a function,
then use the offset function to get 
the id number in the fld.

someone on the MetaCard list pointed out that
i could name a btn "b60" and label it "60"
thus avoiding many headaches.

there are mixed emotions when MC/RR advances
let you throw away code you sweated blood over.

Erik

=====
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From bornstein at designeq.com  Tue Jul  1 17:03:00 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Tue Jul  1 17:03:00 2003
Subject: Another Script Editing Tip
Message-ID: <200307012155.h61Ltqni010135@nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com>

>When looking for ways to make script editing more convenient, I found the
>following to be a simple and easy method which (best of all) allows me to
>keep the browse tool active -- no need to switch to the pointer tool.

This reminds me of another trick I used to use all the time in HyperCard 
to lock and unlock a text field.

I had this script in my home stack:

on mousewithin
  global currentTarget
  put the target into currenttarget
  if currenttarget contains "field"  then
    if the commandkey is down and the shiftkey is down then
      set locktext of currenttarget to not locktext of currenttarget
      wait 20 -- just so you don't toggle it on and off if someone
      -- leaves the option key down
    end if
  end if
end mousewithin

This script doesn't work in Revolution (unless it's in the actual field 
you're trying to affect. It won't work in the stack script.) 

Apparently the mousewithin message doesn't travel up the hierarchy like 
it does in HC. Can you tell me why?

Regards,

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Jul  1 17:10:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Jul  1 17:10:01 2003
Subject: Some basic questions about fld tables
In-Reply-To: <1030702024527.3f01baa7.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.51131@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <B128102E-AC0F-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Don't forget that when getting items from a table field, you must first 
set the itemDelimiter to tab.
Cheers,
Sarah

On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 02:45  am, Edwin Gore wrote:

> Now that you have Richard's explaination of how to set up a field, 
> here are the specific answers to you questions
>
>> Hello!
>> I have problems with Fields like Table.
>> How is it possible to put text into cell 1/3 (row 1
>> col 3)
>
> put x into item 3 of line 1 of field "table"
>
>> How is it possible to read something in a cell (the
>> same by example)?
>
> put item 3 of line 1 of field "table" into x
>
>> How is it possible to say "put "taratata" into the
>> first row empty in the
>> table"?
> on mouseUp
> -- go through the field looking for an empty row
> Repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in field "table"
> -- if you find an empty row, put the word in it
> if line x of field "table" is empty then
> put "taratata" into item 1 of line x of field "table"
> exit MouseUp
> end if
> end repeat
> -- if you made it through the whole field and didn't find 
> -- an empty line, add a line and put the word in it
> put return & "taratata" after field "table"
> end mouseUp
>
>
>> If you have one answer to all these questions or
>> only to one, you are
>> welcome!
>>
>> I have searched in all the doc, with the plugin,
>> but nothing about that I
>> think!
>>
>> Thank you
>> Fran=E7ois
>>
>> --------------=20
>> Fran=E7ois Cuneo
>> Site Web d=E9di=E9 au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
>> E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>> tion
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 17:12:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  1 17:12:01 2003
Subject: Another Script Editing Tip
In-Reply-To: <200307012155.h61Ltqni010135@nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20030701220412.23489.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Howard Bornstein <bornstein at designeq.com>
wrote:
> to lock and unlock a text field.
> I had this script in my home stack:
> 
> on mousewithin
>   global currentTarget
>   put the target into currenttarget
>   if currenttarget contains "field"  then
>     if the commandkey is down and the shiftkey
> is down then
>       set locktext of currenttarget to not
> locktext of currenttarget
>       wait 20 -- just so you don't toggle it on
> and off if someone
>       -- leaves the option key down
>     end if
>   end if
> end mousewithin
> 
> This script doesn't work in Revolution (unless
> it's in the actual field 
> you're trying to affect. It won't work in the
> stack script.) 
> 
> Apparently the mousewithin message doesn't
> travel up the hierarchy like 
> it does in HC. Can you tell me why?

there is a similar handler in the Winkler/
De Voto book using mouseUp. this works for
me in 1.1

=====
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From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Jul  1 17:25:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Jul  1 17:25:01 2003
Subject: Another Script Editing Tip
In-Reply-To: <200307012155.h61Ltqni010135@nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BB2756A5.7B85%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Howard Bornstein"  wrote:

> I had this script in my home stack:
> 
> on mousewithin
> global currentTarget
> put the target into currenttarget
> if currenttarget contains "field"  then
>   if the commandkey is down and the shiftkey is down then
>     set locktext of currenttarget to not locktext of currenttarget
>     wait 20 -- just so you don't toggle it on and off if someone
>     -- leaves the option key down
>   end if
> end if
> end mousewithin
> 
> This script doesn't work in Revolution (unless it's in the actual field
> you're trying to affect. It won't work in the stack script.)
> 
> Apparently the mousewithin message doesn't travel up the hierarchy like
> it does in HC. Can you tell me why?

Can't tell you why, but according to the MC docs, mouseWithin is yet another
inefficient handler to be avoided.

The following works similarly to the HC script above and uses two key sets
(command+shift = unlock,command = lock):

[can be placed in the card or stack script]

on mouseMove
  if word 1 of name of the target = "field" then
    if the commandKey is "down" then
      if the shiftKey is "down" then
        set the lockText of the target to false
      else set the lockText of the target to true
    end if
    # SHOW FIELD STATUS
    put name of the target && "locked = " && the lockText of the target
  end if
end mouseMove

Passing the mouse over the field with the above mentioned key combinations
pressed allows you to lock/unlock a field at will.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Jul  1 17:32:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Jul  1 17:32:00 2003
Subject: Table Fun
In-Reply-To: <1030702061227.3f01eb2b.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.51677@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <63A17BFF-AC12-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Chris,

Good stack, I can see I'm going to find it useful. I made a slight 
tweak that makes your table field respond to mouse clicks by displaying 
all the cRevTable properties.
In the table field's script, I put this handler:
on mouseDown
   send "showCustomSetValues" to this card in 20 milliseconds
end mouseDown

I don't know what messages you were having trouble with, but this one 
works fine for me.

BTW, you don't need to use MetaCard to look at these properties in Rev. 
If you turn on "Revolution UI Elements in Lists" in the "View" menu, 
you will be able to choose cRevTable (or any other internal property 
sets) as the visible property set in the Inspector.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/


On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 06:12  am, HyperChris at aol.com wrote:

> I decided to finally cut the chord with HC and get with Revolution. I 
> started to bang out my little project and saw this nifty little Table 
> option in the Inspector. Oh boy...I have always wanted this! I played 
> with it for 20 minutes, went through the documentation for 30 minutes, 
> dowloaded the 45MB revlist archive and then played with it for 3 
> hours. Such is the life of a wannabe programmer. Anyways, I was right 
> there with Graham and Jane as they discussed these tables in the list 
> and in response I came up with a stack that explores this critter.
>
> If you want the stack it is at ... 
> http://www.christophercomputers.com/rev.html
>
snip




From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Jul  1 17:35:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue Jul  1 17:35:00 2003
Subject: Goings on behind the scene
In-Reply-To: <200307011900.PAA12147@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307011900.PAA12147@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210604bb27b3389f91@[66.81.143.244]>

I had a button with the following handler.:

on mouseEnter
  beep
end mouseEnter

Sure enough, it beeped every time the mouse entered.

But I left RR to respond to an incoming email. I noticed while in 
Eudora that I was getting occasional beeps, every time the mouse 
entered a certain area. I finally tracked it down to the Run Rev 
button *underneath* Eudora. When the mouse *in Eudora* was over the 
button hidden *in Run Rev*, Run Rev was still at work reading 
messages and registering beeps.

Actually it happened regardless of the program. This is spooky. I 
guess I knew that other programs were always at work, out of sight 
and out of mind; else how would I have known that a fresh email had 
arrived. I had also run into this fact earlier when I was getting 
inconsistent results from a "wait 0" command.

But it certainly came as a surprise that Run Rev is polling the mouse 
while I am preoccupied elsewhere.

Oddly enough, this beeping button does not respond to the MouseEnter 
(or mousewithin) when it is covered by another button within Run Rev.

Live and learn; live and blunder into things.

Jim

P.S. Scott:  Check out Run Rev preferences. Under "general" there is 
the shortcut: "Command-Option edits scripts" This work when the 
browse tool is over any control--but not for the card.


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Jul  1 17:43:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Jul  1 17:43:00 2003
Subject: Goings on behind the scene
In-Reply-To: <a05210604bb27b3389f91@[66.81.143.244]>
Message-ID: <BB275AD3.7B89%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Jim Hurley"  wrote:

> Scott:  Check out Run Rev preferences. Under "general" there is
> the shortcut: "Command-Option edits scripts" This work when the
> browse tool is over any control--but not for the card.

Thanks for the tip! (I don't believe this exists in MC but could be
wrong...)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Jul  1 17:44:02 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Jul  1 17:44:02 2003
Subject: Goings on behind the scene
In-Reply-To: <1030702083030.3f020b86.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.51878@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <5E65D4DE-AC14-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> P.S. Scott:  Check out Run Rev preferences. Under "general" there is 
> the shortcut: "Command-Option edits scripts" This work when the browse 
> tool is over any control--but not for the card.
Well it almost always works, but not every time :-(
For the card, I always use Command-Shift-C and for the stack script 
Command-Shift-S

Cheers,
Sarah




From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul  1 17:46:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul  1 17:46:00 2003
Subject: Another Script Editing Tip
In-Reply-To: <20030701212348.8649.qmail@web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BBBD0646-AC14-11D7-B1DA-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 1, 2003, at 03:23 PM, erik hansen wrote:

> this is the first instance of a handler name
> using chars other than numbers, letters,
> and "_" that i have seen. more wonders.

There are a handful of characters that will 'work'.

For a little while I used ? at the end of the names of functions that 
returned true or false.  However, Scott Raney has advised against using 
anything outside the set you mentioned because of potential future 
changes.  In addition, I was being inconsistent.  I have been 
suggesting that Revolution get a expression style 'if' that doesn't 
evaluate all arguments and even suggested the C notation involving ? 
and : to do it.  So I was suggesting a feature that would break my code.

I now put "Is" after the library name (if any) and before the rest of 
the name to indicate a function that returns true or false.  Example:  
spyIsErikOnline()

Dar Scott



From themacguy at macosx.com  Tue Jul  1 19:09:00 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Tue Jul  1 19:09:00 2003
Subject: Speech synthesis on Windows
Message-ID: <5A5D5DDC-AC20-11D7-BA17-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

I've used Macintalk within Rev to make my Mac speak phrases I have in 
fields (not user entered but static). How can I do this on a Windows PC 
without requiring some special hardware? Is there any "standard minimum 
configuration" that might be valid to spec?

If I have to include real AIFF files on both platforms to make the 
features common I will do so. I was just wondering...

Thanks,
Barry



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 19:14:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  1 19:14:01 2003
Subject: Another Script Editing Tip
In-Reply-To: <BBBD0646-AC14-11D7-B1DA-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20030702000612.78592.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> > this is the first instance of a handler name
> > using chars other than numbers, letters,
> > and "_" that i have seen. more wonders.
> 
> There are a handful of characters that will
> 'work'.
> 
> For a little while I used ? at the end of the
> names of functions that 
> returned true or false.  However, Scott Raney
> has advised against using 
> anything outside the set you mentioned because
> of potential future 
> changes.  In addition, I was being
> inconsistent.  I have been 
> suggesting that Revolution get a expression
> style 'if' that doesn't 
> evaluate all arguments and even suggested the C
> notation involving ? 
> and : to do it.  So I was suggesting a feature
> that would break my code.
> 
> I now put "Is" after the library name (if any)
> and before the rest of 
> the name to indicate a function that returns
> true or false.  Example:  
> spyIsErikOnline()

dassIstGut()

=====
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 19:23:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  1 19:23:01 2003
Subject: cr and return
In-Reply-To: <BB267C64.2FF32%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030702001534.2172.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:

replace "ARBITRARY_DELETE_FLAG"&cr \
with empty in tList

---

isn't a return a carriage return and...
a form feed? crIsReturn() in all cases?

function crIsReturn
   return (cr = return)
end crIsReturn


=====
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul  1 19:34:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul  1 19:34:00 2003
Subject: cr and return
In-Reply-To: <20030702001534.2172.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB2774C2.2FFE4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

erik hansen wrote:

> --- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> wrote:
> 
> replace "ARBITRARY_DELETE_FLAG"&cr \
> with empty in tList
> 
> ---
> 
> isn't a return a carriage return and...
> a form feed? 

Internally, "cr" and "return" both signify the Unix line ending (ASCII 10,
or linefeed).  Macs use ASCII 13, which is the true "return" character, and
Windows uses return+linefeed (ASCII 13 + ASCII 10).

When reading or writing a file as text, the enginew does line-ending
translation automatically.  But within the program, line endings use the
Unix convention.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 19:40:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  1 19:40:00 2003
Subject: cr and return
In-Reply-To: <BB2774C2.2FFE4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030702003249.41252.qmail@web20008.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Richard Gaskin ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> > wrote:
> > replace "ARBITRARY_DELETE_FLAG"&cr \
> > with empty in tList
---
> > isn't a return a carriage return and...
> > a form feed? 
--- 
> Internally, "cr" and "return" both signify the
> Unix line ending (ASCII 10,
> or linefeed).  Macs use ASCII 13, which is the
> true "return" character, and
> Windows uses return+linefeed (ASCII 13 + ASCII
> 10).
> 
> When reading or writing a file as text, the
> enginew does line-ending
> translation automatically.  But within the
> program, line endings use the
> Unix convention.

thanks,
so, there are no cross platform problems
with using either return or cr?

=====
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__________________________________
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From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul  1 19:49:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul  1 19:49:00 2003
Subject: cr and return
In-Reply-To: <20030702001534.2172.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FA03EE36-AC25-11D7-B1DA-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 1, 2003, at 06:15 PM, erik hansen wrote:

> isn't a return a carriage return and...
> a form feed? crIsReturn() in all cases?

The Revolution formFeed is the ASCII form feed and is distinct from the 
others.
The Revolution LF (new) is the ASCII line feed.

The Revolution CR is not the ASCII carriage return but is the same as 
LF.
The Revolution return is not the ASCII carriage return but is the same 
as LF.

The Revolution tab is the same as the ASCII tab.
The Revolution null (new) is the same as the ASCII null.

The Revolution CRLF is the same as the ASCII CR LF sequence, but the 
first char is not the same as the Revolution CR.

The most acceptable word for the line end in Revolution seems to be 
return.  Some use CR because it is shorter.  The use of CR grates on my 
nerves.  I use LF which bothers some others especially in contexts 
where it is the Revolution line end and does not have a particular 
ASCII function.

> function crIsReturn
>    return (cr = return)
> end crIsReturn

true

Dar Scott





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul  1 19:53:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul  1 19:53:01 2003
Subject: cr and return
In-Reply-To: <20030702003249.41252.qmail@web20008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB277922.2FFEB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

erik hansen wrote:

> so, there are no cross platform problems
> with using either return or cr?

Only when a file has been opened for binary read/write.  It's not
necessarily a problem, but if you're writing a text file to be read by
another program you'll probably want to open the file in the default text
mode rather than binary.

But yes, "cr" and "return" are synonyms.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 19:58:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  1 19:58:01 2003
Subject: cr and return
In-Reply-To: <FA03EE36-AC25-11D7-B1DA-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20030702005008.91181.qmail@web20010.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, July 1, 2003, at 06:15 PM, erik
> hansen wrote:
> 
> > isn't a return a carriage return and...
> > a form feed? crIsReturn() in all cases?
> 
> The Revolution formFeed is the ASCII form feed
> and is distinct from the 
> others.
> The Revolution LF (new) is the ASCII line feed.
> 
> The Revolution CR is not the ASCII carriage
> return but is the same as 
> LF.
> The Revolution return is not the ASCII carriage
> return but is the same 
> as LF.
> 
> The Revolution tab is the same as the ASCII
> tab.
> The Revolution null (new) is the same as the
> ASCII null.
> 
> The Revolution CRLF is the same as the ASCII CR
> LF sequence, but the 
> first char is not the same as the Revolution
> CR.
> 
> The most acceptable word for the line end in
> Revolution seems to be 
> return.  Some use CR because it is shorter. 
> The use of CR grates on my 
> nerves.  I use LF which bothers some others
> especially in contexts 
> where it is the Revolution line end and does
> not have a particular 
> ASCII function.
> 
> > function crIsReturn
> >    return (cr = return)
> > end crIsReturn
> 
> true
> 
> Dar Scott
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

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From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul  1 19:58:09 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul  1 19:58:09 2003
Subject: cr and return
In-Reply-To: <20030702003249.41252.qmail@web20008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <34CB418A-AC27-11D7-B1DA-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 1, 2003, at 06:32 PM, erik hansen wrote:

> so, there are no cross platform problems
> with using either return or cr?

Only cross programmer problems.

A new programmer might read over some code for serial or tcp/ip I/O 
several times before realizing the CR in the script should be changed 
to numToChar(13).  I might.

Fortunately, it is possible to write scripts so that these issues only 
come up in the isolated low level I/O and all other layers use the 
standard line end, whatever the name.

Dar Scott



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 20:07:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  1 20:07:00 2003
Subject: cr and return
In-Reply-To: <FA03EE36-AC25-11D7-B1DA-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20030702010001.7546.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, July 1, 2003, at 06:15 PM, erik
> hansen wrote:
> 
> > isn't a return a carriage return and...
> > a form feed? crIsReturn() in all cases?
> 
> The Revolution formFeed is the ASCII form feed
> and is distinct from the 
> others.
> The Revolution LF (new) is the ASCII line feed.
> 
> The Revolution CR is not the ASCII carriage
> return but is the same as 
> LF.
> The Revolution return is not the ASCII carriage
> return but is the same 
> as LF.
> 
> The Revolution tab is the same as the ASCII
> tab.
> The Revolution null (new) is the same as the
> ASCII null.
> 
> The Revolution CRLF is the same as the ASCII CR
> LF sequence, but the 
> first char is not the same as the Revolution
> CR.

aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh

notice how the "a"s give the illusion of
growing larger from left to right?
that has to be useful in UI design.
(the above "a" is like at or hat.)

> The most acceptable word for the line end in
> Revolution seems to be return.  

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh closure.

(this "ah" is like podner.)
be glad your language is not a creole.
on the other hand what other platform could
produce Chaucer and Shakespeare!

Some use CR because it is shorter. 
> The use of CR grates on my 
> nerves.  I use LF which bothers some others
> especially in contexts 
> where it is the Revolution line end and does
> not have a particular 
> ASCII function.
> 
> > function crIsReturn
> >    return (cr = return)
> > end crIsReturn
> 
> true

seriously, thanks, i am filing the subject.

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 20:11:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  1 20:11:01 2003
Subject: cr and return
In-Reply-To: <34CB418A-AC27-11D7-B1DA-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20030702010218.44993.qmail@web20008.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, July 1, 2003, at 06:32 PM, erik
> hansen wrote:
> 
> > so, there are no cross platform problems
> > with using either return or cr?
> 
> Only cross programmer problems.
> 
> A new programmer might read over some code for
> serial or tcp/ip I/O 
> several times before realizing the CR in the
> script should be changed 
> to numToChar(13).  I might.
> 
> Fortunately, it is possible to write scripts so
> that these issues only 
> come up in the isolated low level I/O and all
> other layers use the 
> standard line end, whatever the name.

so stick with "return" unless you know
what you are doing.

thanks again,

erik

=====
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 20:16:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  1 20:16:00 2003
Subject: cr and return
In-Reply-To: <BB277922.2FFEB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030702010852.92184.qmail@web20005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:
> erik hansen wrote:
> 
> > so, there are no cross platform problems
> > with using either return or cr?
> 
> Only when a file has been opened for binary
> read/write.  It's not
> necessarily a problem, but if you're writing a
> text file to be read by
> another program you'll probably want to open
> the file in the default text
> mode rather than binary.
> 
> But yes, "cr" and "return" are synonyms.

thanks, that clears things up.

an eventual goal is to generate ASCII files
that can be read by sequencers. there are some
stacks which will soon appear as links on my
RunRev Fanzine page. this might be a case where
"binary read/write" is involved.

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
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From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Jul  1 21:33:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue Jul  1 21:33:00 2003
Subject: Goings on behind the scene
In-Reply-To: <200307020009.UAA23497@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307020009.UAA23497@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210608bb27f051fa60@[66.81.143.244]>

>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:35:51 +1000
>Subject: Re: Goings on behind the scene
>From: Sarah <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>>  P.S. Scott:  Check out Run Rev preferences. Under "general" there is
>>  the shortcut: "Command-Option edits scripts" This work when the browse
>>  tool is over any control--but not for the card.
>Well it almost always works, but not every time :-(
>For the card, I always use Command-Shift-C and for the stack script
>Command-Shift-S
>
>Cheers,
>Sarah
>


Sarah and Scott,

Actually what I find to be the most use shortcut is

    command-control-shift (on the Mac.)

You get a whole menu of options: Edit the control, get its 
properties, edit the card or stack or get their properties. Sarah, 
are right about the intermittent behavior of command-option. But 
command-control-shift is infallible. That's why the Pope uses it.

Jim




From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Jul  1 22:34:00 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue Jul  1 22:34:00 2003
Subject: Speech synthesis on Windows
In-Reply-To: <5A5D5DDC-AC20-11D7-BA17-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAEENEENAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Hi Barry,

I'm pretty sure there isn't a ubiquitous solution for Speech on Windowsv via
RunRev. I checked around last night and found out they're shipping the SAPI
5.1 now with new WinXP, and RunRev Speech doesn't work with SAPI 5.1. In
fact, it's a bit confusing even trying to find out what version of SAPI is
running on WinXP.

I think RR will need to update the Speech libraries for Windows users.

--Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Barry Levine
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 7:02 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Speech synthesis on Windows
>
>
> I've used Macintalk within Rev to make my Mac speak phrases I have in
> fields (not user entered but static). How can I do this on a Windows PC
> without requiring some special hardware? Is there any "standard minimum
> configuration" that might be valid to spec?
>
> If I have to include real AIFF files on both platforms to make the
> features common I will do so. I was just wondering...
>
> Thanks,
> Barry
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From katir at hindu.org  Wed Jul  2 00:03:00 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Wed Jul  2 00:03:00 2003
Subject: OT: mp3 vs mp4
In-Reply-To: <32BDB86A-AB73-11D7-991F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <676DC668-AC49-11D7-B9BB-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Does anyone know about the merits/problems of encoding audio for 
internet delivery as mp4 (presumably smaller files and better quality) 
vs sticking with mp3? One issue we know of is that RealOne Player will 
play mp3 files now (their own .ra codec is really no longer needed) but 
perhaps .mp4 files will not play on windows. Problem being, as a Mac 
user, I find everything, works everywhere... We would like to switch to 
mp4 but am worried that it could break on windows machines, both in 
Revolution (i.e. using Quick
time on Windows) and in RealOne Player.

Any thoughts or input welcome (email me off list it this thread seems 
to far a field though though other developers may be interested.


TIA

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org



From igor at pixelmedia.com.au  Wed Jul  2 00:29:01 2003
From: igor at pixelmedia.com.au (Igor Couto)
Date: Wed Jul  2 00:29:01 2003
Subject: newbies
In-Reply-To: <20030630232930.21656.qmail@web20004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2D946097-AC4D-11D7-B91E-000393AD9396@pixelmedia.com.au>

Hey, Erik!

On Tuesday, July 1, 2003, at 09:29  AM, erik hansen wrote:

> if it makes you feel any better,
> i have no idea what a "popup in a field" is!

*hehehehehe*
I read about 'popups' when I was going through all the different types 
of user interface elements Revolution has to offer. However, I had 
'archived' their use in my mind as being for 'contextual menus' only... 
  Just goes to show that when you assume...

> after seeing the news about conventions,
> reviews, word of mouth, etc. it seems that
> a newbie friendly atmosphere, like this list,
> is a crucial force for sales growth,
> which allows more for you advanced users.

I have to say, that the more I get to know Revolution, the more I am 
enjoying it - and the support that we feel from the advanced users, as 
well as the extremely responsive Revolution staff, is more than just a 
small part of that.

I hope that the software I produce will be able to command the same 
level of excitement and devotion from my users as Rev has been able to 
instill in theirs!

Once again, thank you to all the great Rev users and Runtime staff for 
their effort and dedication - as you can see, it is, indeed, immensely 
appreciated.

Kind Regards,
--
Igor de Oliveira Couto
----------------------------------
igor at pixelmedia.com.au
----------------------------------



From bornstein at designeq.com  Wed Jul  2 01:25:01 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Wed Jul  2 01:25:01 2003
Subject: Another Script Editing Tip
Message-ID: <200307020617.h626H6ni020477@nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com>

>
>Can't tell you why, but according to the MC docs, mouseWithin is yet another
>inefficient handler to be avoided.

Perhaps since they are urging a movement away from mousewithin to 
mousemove, that the mousemove message gets passed up the hierarchy and 
mousewithin is now not passed. In any case, your script does what my old 
script did without using the "evil" mousewithin.

Thanks!

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From bornstein at designeq.com  Wed Jul  2 01:25:12 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Wed Jul  2 01:25:12 2003
Subject: Another Script Editing Tip
Message-ID: <200307020617.h626H6nj020477@nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com>

>there is a similar handler in the Winkler/
>De Voto book using mouseUp. this works for
>me in 1.1

I tended not to use mouseup since that handler is used in so many objects 
and then you'd always have to add a "pass mouseup" statement to your 
handlers. I found I used mousewithin much less frequently, so putting it 
in my home card (in HC) made it available almost all the time.

Scott Rossi's version using mousemove is a modern version of my old 
script.

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From bornstein at designeq.com  Wed Jul  2 01:45:01 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Wed Jul  2 01:45:01 2003
Subject: Goings on behind the scene
Message-ID: <200307020637.h626bMni029240@nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com>

>Actually what I find to be the most use shortcut is
>
>    command-control-shift (on the Mac.)

Actually, I believe you only need to control-click to get the same 
context menu.

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul  2 02:19:00 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Wed Jul  2 02:19:00 2003
Subject: Column Chunks
Message-ID: <000501c34069$2c72a340$39231e3e@Jez2>

I have a scrolling list field that is displaying in "table" format (I'm
populating from a database query via odbc). How do I get at each "column"
chunk of a table row?

If I use "token n of line j of field ..." it works but only up to a point :
if any of my columns in a row are blank they are not counted as a token so
mess things up.

Using "item n" with ItemDelimiter set to tab does not work either.

Help!




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Jul  2 02:28:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed Jul  2 02:28:00 2003
Subject: Speaking of voices
In-Reply-To: <200307011548.LAA05005@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB27D6F4.1A93%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Jim,

> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:51:01 -0700
> From: Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com>
> Subject: Re: Speaking of voices

> I confess I didn't follow what you are saying here. Why would one
> need to set the stop condition first?
----------
See below.
----------
> Without the line:
> 
> RevSetSpeechVoice "Bruce",
> 
> the mouseUP handler works as expected.
>
> It would appear that that
> line affects the conditional statement that follows. Why is that
> normal AFAIK behavior?
----------
Well, if I'm right, the explanation might be a little hard to follow, so
hang in there.

According to the docs, the line in question (RevSetSpeechVoice "Bruce")
cannot change voices while speech is already happening in a given session,
i.e., if you _were_ changing voices, which it must account for even if you
don't. 

Therefore, "revSetSpeechVoice" behaves like the beginning of a sequence at
every encounter in the current session, meaning it's going to shut off any
running speech when it sets the voice. This is "normal" in this case.

Thus, setting the voice _first_ causes the current speech to stop in
preparation for the next revSpeak command. After the line executes, there is
no more speech, i.e., revIsSpeaking() is FALSE. You can check this in the
message box.

Your handler:

on mouseUP
  revsetspeechVoice "Bruce"
       ## Kills the speech

    if revIsSpeaking() then
      revstopSpeech
          ## revIsSpeaking is now FALSE because the first line
          ## already killed speech.

    else revspeak me
       ## Will always start speaking at the beginning.

end mouseUP

So, if you simply re-sequence the handler like this:

on mouseUP
  if revIsSpeaking() then
    revstopSpeech
  else 
    revsetspeechVoice "Bruce"
    revspeak me
  end if
end mouseUP

...it works. Actually, since we know that 'revSetSpeechVoice' kills speech,
technically, we could use the same line in place of 'revStopSpeech':

on mouseUP
  if revIsSpeaking() then
    revsetspeechVoice "Bruce"
  else 
    revsetspeechVoice "Bruce"
    revspeak me
  end if
end mouseUP

...also works...if you can think of a reason to use it this way.

> And, of course, what does the acronym mean?
> :-)
----------
AFAIK = As Far As I Know.

HTH,
Ken N.



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Jul  2 02:40:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed Jul  2 02:40:00 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <200307011601.MAA06240@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB27D9A6.1A94%pixelbird@interisland.net>

OOPS!  Let's try it again without all the commented-out stuff from before:

on mouseDown
  set the uAllowScroll of me to true
  endlessScroller
end mouseDown

on endlessScroller
   constant scrollSpeedInterval = 10
   if not the uAllowScroll of me then exit endlessScroller
     if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
      set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1344) mod 1345
    else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
    set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345) mod 1344
    end if
   send "endlessScroller" to me in scrollSpeedInterval milliseconds
end endlessScroller

on mouseUp
   set the uAllowScroll of me to false
end mouseUp

on mouseRelease
   mouseUp
end mouseRelease

...Tested and works well.

Ken N.



From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul  2 02:42:00 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Wed Jul  2 02:42:00 2003
Subject: Column Chunks
Message-ID: <000c01c3406c$5cb24b20$39231e3e@Jez2>

Sorry, "item n" DOES work but only in code, not via Message Box.

I'm sure in 1.1.1 if you set ItemDel in the message box it used that setting
for subsequent commands entered in the message box? It doesnt seem to in
2.0.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jez" <jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 8:11 AM
Subject: Column Chunks


> I have a scrolling list field that is displaying in "table" format (I'm
> populating from a database query via odbc). How do I get at each "column"
> chunk of a table row?
>
> If I use "token n of line j of field ..." it works but only up to a point
:
> if any of my columns in a row are blank they are not counted as a token so
> mess things up.
>
> Using "item n" with ItemDelimiter set to tab does not work either.
>
> Help!
>




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 02:50:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul  2 02:50:00 2003
Subject: Column Chunks
In-Reply-To: <000c01c3406c$5cb24b20$39231e3e@Jez2>
Message-ID: <20030702074214.72526.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jez <jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Sorry, "item n" DOES work but only in code, not via
> Message Box.
> 
> I'm sure in 1.1.1 if you set ItemDel in the message
> box it used that setting
> for subsequent commands entered in the message box?
> It doesnt seem to in
> 2.0.
> 

Hi Jez,

You can always use the multi-line panel of the message
box ; then you can type a whole sequence, including
repeats, switches etc. ; and hit the 'enter' key to
execute it.

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jez" <jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 8:11 AM
> Subject: Column Chunks
> 
> 
> > I have a scrolling list field that is displaying
> in "table" format (I'm
> > populating from a database query via odbc). How do
> I get at each "column"
> > chunk of a table row?
> >
> > If I use "token n of line j of field ..." it works
> but only up to a point
> :
> > if any of my columns in a row are blank they are
> not counted as a token so
> > mess things up.
> >
> > Using "item n" with ItemDelimiter set to tab does
> not work either.
> >
> > Help!
> >
> 

So does this mean you answered your own question, or
is there still a problem with column fetching?

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Jul  2 02:59:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed Jul  2 02:59:01 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <200307011859.OAA12114@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB27DE3C.1A96%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Jan,

> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:35:56 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: More send in time

> Polling the mouse state requires an expensive system
> call ; polling the content of a script local variable
> is handled by the engine and very fast.
----------
Got it! Thank you.

Ken N.



From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul  2 03:00:00 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Wed Jul  2 03:00:00 2003
Subject: Colour Picker ?
Message-ID: <001201c3406e$e49499b0$39231e3e@Jez2>

What's happened to the old colour picker from 1.1.1? Is it in 2.0 - if so
where?

I liked the ability to select a colour by name, enter it by RGB values, or
by using the pipette tool to suck up a colour from somewhere else on the
screen. The colour picker in the property pages under 2.0 doesnt seem to
have these features, reverting to the standard windows colour selection.

However, as usual I'm probably missing something !




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 03:00:05 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul  2 03:00:05 2003
Subject: revDataFromQuery - list of columns
In-Reply-To: <20030701191629.64875.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030702075208.17684.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Chris Sheffield <cm_sheffield at yahoo.com> wrote:
> revSetSQLOfQuery "pl_tm_id_query", tSQLQuery
> 
> Can someone tell me where these commands and
> functions
> are documented?  I can't seem to find them.  I've
> seen
> other posts with similar actions for modifying data
> in
> a Database Query Builder query, but I have no idea
> exactly how to use them.  Can someone help?
> 
> 
> =====
> Chris Sheffield
> 

Hi Chris,

Use the message box to look at the 'revDatabase'
frontscript. Most command and function names *should*
be straightforward, and you'll learn more about the
intricacies of the Database linked buttons and fields
than you may ever want to know ;-)

Happy digging,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Wed Jul  2 03:04:01 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Wed Jul  2 03:04:01 2003
Subject: Export Frames from Movies as JPEGS....NOW!
Message-ID: <web-305270321@mail.maclaunch.com>

I have just uploaded a new version of my MOVIE-SNAPPER.REV
stack to my website:

It allows the user to export frames as JPEG files......Ra
Ra Rasputin ! ! !

Download it, Play with it, Send me abusive messages!

Regards, Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Jul  2 03:05:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed Jul  2 03:05:01 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <200307011859.OAA12114@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB27DFAB.1A97%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Scott,

> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:45:48 -0700
> Subject: Re: More send in time
> From: Scott Rossi

snip

> The engine is extremely fast and reliable when it comes to checking the
> value of a variable.  Given the fact that the developers of the tools have
> repeatedly stated this is the correct way to handle checking the mouse
> state, it would be worth your time to get in the habit of using this
> technique. 
----------
Thanks. Yes, I understand. What other things besides the mouse might have
these same kinds of handling characteristics?

TIA,
Ken N.



From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul  2 03:08:01 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Wed Jul  2 03:08:01 2003
Subject: Column Chunks
References: <20030702074214.72526.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c3406f$f3429380$39231e3e@Jez2>

It's all sorted now thank you.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jan Schenkel" <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: Column Chunks


> --- Jez <jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > Sorry, "item n" DOES work but only in code, not via
> > Message Box.
> >
> > I'm sure in 1.1.1 if you set ItemDel in the message
> > box it used that setting
> > for subsequent commands entered in the message box?
> > It doesnt seem to in
> > 2.0.
> >
>
> Hi Jez,
>
> You can always use the multi-line panel of the message
> box ; then you can type a whole sequence, including
> repeats, switches etc. ; and hit the 'enter' key to
> execute it.
>
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Jez" <jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk>
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 8:11 AM
> > Subject: Column Chunks
> >
> >
> > > I have a scrolling list field that is displaying
> > in "table" format (I'm
> > > populating from a database query via odbc). How do
> > I get at each "column"
> > > chunk of a table row?
> > >
> > > If I use "token n of line j of field ..." it works
> > but only up to a point
> > :
> > > if any of my columns in a row are blank they are
> > not counted as a token so
> > > mess things up.
> > >
> > > Using "item n" with ItemDelimiter set to tab does
> > not work either.
> > >
> > > Help!
> > >
> >
>
> So does this mean you answered your own question, or
> is there still a problem with column fetching?
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."
(La Rochefoucauld)
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul  2 03:13:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul  2 03:13:00 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <BB27DFAB.1A97%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BB27E044.D3B7%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Ken Norris wrote:

>> The engine is extremely fast and reliable when it comes to checking the
>> value of a variable.  Given the fact that the developers of the tools have
>> repeatedly stated this is the correct way to handle checking the mouse
>> state, it would be worth your time to get in the habit of using this
>> technique. 
> ----------
> Thanks. Yes, I understand. What other things besides the mouse might have
> these same kinds of handling characteristics?

You can see the recent posts (and docs) on mouseWithin/mouseMove...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From paeleman at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  2 04:06:01 2003
From: paeleman at hotmail.com (Joeri Paeleman)
Date: Wed Jul  2 04:06:01 2003
Subject: Externals problem - Windows Messages
Message-ID: <Law11-F1531Obiw57x90002a774@hotmail.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to make a little external for Revolution, but I'm running into 
some problems.

The DLL I'm making makes it possible to set a taskbar-tray-icon from 
Revolution. Setting, modifying and deleting the icon are no problem at all, 
but naturally the icon needs to respond to user interaction, and then things 
start getting confusing.
For the purposes of my current project, the most important feature would be 
to simply double-click the icon and show my Revolution stack (which was 
previously hidden). When initializing the icon, I can specify some 
windows-messages to be sent to my mainStack. So I specified 
WM_LBUTTONDBLCLK, hoping that Revolution would recognize the message (as it 
should). Unfortionately, Revolution responds to this message after a single 
mouseUp (and executes the stacks mouseUp handler).
For a moment I thought I could live with this (since I could show my stack 
after a single click). However, this method only appears to works in the IDE 
(or, as a standalone, when another stack is visible). So if I build a 
distribution, launch it, hide my main stack (and all others), and click the 
icon, nothing happens.

Has anybody got any ideas on how to solve this?

When I get this running, I would obviously like to add a context-menu to my 
icon. To implement that, it would be nice if there was a way to send 
messages from the external to the revolution-project. Is there a way to do 
this (eg using custom Windows-Messages to directly call a Revolution 
custom-handler)?

Thanks a lot,

Joeri

_________________________________________________________________




From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul  2 05:22:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul  2 05:22:00 2003
Subject: doubleclicking a stack
In-Reply-To: <Law11-F1531Obiw57x90002a774@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <0026AA55-AC76-11D7-8A10-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi all,

just a short question.

After doubleclicking a stack in RR 1.xx ONLY that stack was displayed.

Now in 2.x the complete IDE starts?

Bug or feature?

I thought it was supposed to work like MC,
doubleclicking a stack will only launch that file and
holding the command key while doubleclicking lauches the
stack AND the IDE...

This way it is hard (actually impossible) to use RR as simple 
"player"-app for stacks.


Clueless...

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


P.S.
A bit off-topic: Does anybody know a slim and fast Linux distribution
that might run sufficiently on my VPC (1 GHZ G4, 1 GB RAM :-).

Just for testing purposes. I don't have the room to add a 3rd machine
under my desk... :-)

Funny enough win2000 Pro (? ;-) runs much smoother than win98 on
my VPC...

Thanks in advance...



From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Jul  2 05:47:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed Jul  2 05:47:00 2003
Subject: Goings on behind the scene
In-Reply-To: <200307020701.DAA31130@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307020701.DAA31130@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bb28653cf555@[66.81.143.244]>

>
>Subject: Re: Goings on behind the scene
>Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:37:22 -0400
>From: Howard Bornstein <bornstein at designeq.com>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>>Actually what I find to be the most use shortcut is
>>
>  >    command-control-shift (on the Mac.)
>
>Actually, I believe you only need to control-click to get the same
>context menu.
>
>Howard Bornstein
>____________________
>D E S I G N  E Q
>www.designeq.com

Howard,

There is a slight difference. Command-control-shift-click brings up 
the contextual menu whether the browse or arrow tool is selected, 
whereas control-click only works if the arrow tool is selected.

Jim


From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Jul  2 05:53:01 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed Jul  2 05:53:01 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1558 - 17 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200307020701.DAA31130@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307020701.DAA31130@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bb286028c3e4@[66.81.143.244]>

>
>Message: 11
>Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 00:25:24 -0400
>Subject: Re: Speaking of voices
>From: Ken Norris <pixelbird at interisland.net>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>Well, if I'm right, the explanation might be a little hard to follow, so
>hang in there.
>
>According to the docs, the line in question (RevSetSpeechVoice "Bruce")
>cannot change voices while speech is already happening in a given session,
>i.e., if you _were_ changing voices, which it must account for even if you
>don't.
>
>Therefore, "revSetSpeechVoice" behaves like the beginning of a sequence at
>every encounter in the current session, meaning it's going to shut off any
>running speech when it sets the voice. This is "normal" in this case.
>
>Thus, setting the voice _first_ causes the current speech to stop in
>preparation for the next revSpeak command. After the line executes, there is
>no more speech, i.e., revIsSpeaking() is FALSE. You can check this in the
>message box.
>
>Your handler:
>
>on mouseUP
>   revsetspeechVoice "Bruce"
>        ## Kills the speech
>
>     if revIsSpeaking() then
>       revstopSpeech
>           ## revIsSpeaking is now FALSE because the first line
>           ## already killed speech.
>
>     else revspeak me
>        ## Will always start speaking at the beginning.
>
>end mouseUP

Ken,

Makes eminent good sense! Thank you. I had misunderstood your 
original message to say that revsetspeechvoice somehow affected the 
usual logic of the if...then...else control.



From DVGlasgow at aol.com  Wed Jul  2 06:03:01 2003
From: DVGlasgow at aol.com (DVGlasgow at aol.com)
Date: Wed Jul  2 06:03:01 2003
Subject: encrypted stacks
Message-ID: <3e.31f83da9.2c34141d@aol.com>

Thanks to those who offered previous posts on using encrypted stacks.  I feel 
slightly foolish posting, particularly in light of the learned encryption 
posts we have had lately.  

Anyhow, i stumbled accidentally on an AHA! that might help those just 
starting to think about these things.

I thought that you *had* to use Passkey to decrypt an encrypted stack 
whenever you wanted to use it.  OK, the docs don't say this, but it is the normal way 
password protecting works, and the docs don't say it isn't like this.  

So my scripts all had passkey in until I forgot I had commented one out and 
the 'get' command still worked.  Now I might have expected that of the dev 
environment, but it was a surprise in a standalone.  It looks to me as though 
reading (decrypted data) from an encrypted stack is automatic.  You don't even 
seem to need the password to change the contents of a field in an encrypted stack 
in the dev environment.  Double click the encrypted stack, type what you 
want, save and close.  This was even more of a surprise.

However, it is marvelous for me, because I can just paste lists of authorised 
users into an encrypted users stack, burn to CD, and  the standalone will 
personalise itself on startup, no passwords, no nothing.  Just a get and a put.  

Most of my anticipated users are likely to be either honest or not IT 
literate enough to try to add or replace authorised users.  The few that might try 
will use a text editor and get rubbish.  Aside from  the possibilty that someone 
might download  Rev  and then discover they can then do what they want, are 
there any other ways sneaky users might get round this system?


Best wishes,

David Glasgow
Home/ forensic assessments --> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/dvglasgow/">
DVGlasgow </A>
Courses --> <A HREF="http://www.i-Psych.co.uk">i-Psych</A>


From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch  Wed Jul  2 07:05:01 2003
From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo)
Date: Wed Jul  2 07:05:01 2003
Subject: Some basic questions about fld tables
In-Reply-To: <B128102E-AC0F-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <BB2895AA.B350%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>

> Don't forget that when getting items from a table field, you must first
> set the itemDelimiter to tab.
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> 
> On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 02:45  am, Edwin Gore wrote:
> 
>> Now that you have Richard's explaination of how to set up a field,
>> here are the specific answers to you questions
>> 
>>> Hello!
>>> I have problems with Fields like Table.
>>> How is it possible to put text into cell 1/3 (row 1
>>> col 3)
>> 
>> put x into item 3 of line 1 of field "table"
>> 
>>> How is it possible to read something in a cell (the
>>> same by example)?
>> 
>> put item 3 of line 1 of field "table" into x
>> 
>>> How is it possible to say "put "taratata" into the
>>> first row empty in the
>>> table"?
>> on mouseUp
>> -- go through the field looking for an empty row
>> Repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in field "table"
>> -- if you find an empty row, put the word in it
>> if line x of field "table" is empty then
>> put "taratata" into item 1 of line x of field "table"
>> exit MouseUp
>> end if
>> end repeat
>> -- if you made it through the whole field and didn't find
>> -- an empty line, add a line and put the word in it
>> put return & "taratata" after field "table"
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> 
>>> If you have one answer to all these questions or
>>> only to one, you are
>>> welcome!
>>> 
>>> I have searched in all the doc, with the plugin,
>>> but nothing about that I
>>> think!
>>> 
>>> Thank you
>>> Fran=E7ois
>>> 
>>> --------------=20
>>> Fran=E7ois Cuneo
>>> Site Web d=E9di=E9 au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
>>> E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>>> tion
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
Thanks Sarah, but I think that all what we have said here is not in the
documentation. It would be really important to write that, because the users
are unable to divine that!:-)
Thank you more
Friendly
Fran?ois

-------------- 
Fran?ois Cuneo
Site Web d?di? au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Jul  2 08:23:00 2003
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed Jul  2 08:23:00 2003
Subject: Colour Picker ?
Message-ID: <OFF2E08392.59B906E3-ON85256D57.0046EAC2@sealedair.com>

On 07/02/2003 at 03:52 AM, "Jez" <jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> What's happened to the old colour picker from 1.1.1? Is it in 2.0 - 
> if so where?
> 
> I liked the ability to select a colour by name, enter it by RGB values,
> or by using the pipette tool to suck up a colour from somewhere else
> on the screen. The colour picker in the property pages under 2.0 doesn't
> seem to have these features, reverting to the standard windows colour
> selection.

I agree. The 1.1.1 colour picker was much better, especially the 
pipette/eyedropper tool. Meanwhile, I have been using an RGB value 
reference stack that a colleague an I put together a while back. It 
provides several hundred colours from which to choose. This stack is 
available in the RunRev User Contributions section at:

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/developerdownloads/PantoneToRGB.rev.zip

Kind Regards,
Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  2 09:07:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  2 09:07:01 2003
Subject: visual effect on Mac OS X
Message-ID: <DFC18E21-AC95-11D7-8906-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hello,


I'd like to use the new :

"go to stack "xxx" as sheet"

for mac OS X

But there is a visual effect I 'd like to add : on Mac OS X there is 
also a sort of expansion of the DLOG coming from the top of the window 
: is it possible to add that in Revolution ?

Thanks.


Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From hansydelm at ntlworld.com  Wed Jul  2 09:19:00 2003
From: hansydelm at ntlworld.com (Hans)
Date: Wed Jul  2 09:19:00 2003
Subject: Launching a Cygwin/DOS program 
Message-ID: <IEENIBKPNJOKEMHOKOFCEEOBCJAA.hansydelm@ntlworld.com>

Hi All,

Can anybody explain to me how to correctly invoke a DOS(Cygwin) program
under windows2k from revolution (1.1.1 or 2.0)?

The following command fails:

 launch "cygwin_program > logfile.txt"

However, when I put the cygwin_program into a DOS batch file it all works,

batch file :
  cygwin_program > %1
Revolution :
  launch "cygwin_program.bat logfile.txt"

If I use the open process command revolution hangs

open process "cygwin_program" for read
read from process "cygwin_program" until end
put it into field "logfile"
close process "cygwin_program"

Running the cygwin_program from a cygwin shell or from a DOS box works fine.
Cygwin1.dll is in the search path. Using Linux (RH8) I have no problems
whatsoever :-)

Any idea?

Thanks,
Hans.




From pcharles at mtu.edu  Wed Jul  2 09:19:08 2003
From: pcharles at mtu.edu (Paul Charlesworth)
Date: Wed Jul  2 09:19:08 2003
Subject: mac OS X package
In-Reply-To: <1A9A3447-ABD8-11D7-AC67-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <975BE0D4-ABF2-11D7-855A-000393B6585E@mtu.edu>

Upgrade to 2.01.


On Tuesday, Jul 1, 2003, at 11:24 America/Detroit, Yves COPPE wrote:

> I've 3 problems with Building apps for Mac OS X with Rev 2.0
>
>
> 1) when i ask the build stack, this is two small, I don't have access 
> to the button at the bottom of the window ????
>
>
> 2) When I build an app, then ask show contents of the packages, where 
> are the substacks files ?
>
> 3) I've chosen an icon for my app (a jpeg file) clicking on the button 
> "choose" but the app doesn't have this icon The app has the generic 
> icon of mac OS X app.
>
>
>
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Wed Jul  2 09:28:01 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Wed Jul  2 09:28:01 2003
Subject: Colour Picker ?
Message-ID: <web-305278138@mail.maclaunch.com>

It is entirely possible to extract the COLOR CHOOSER
component from MetaCard 2.5 and
then move it into Runtime Revolution's HOME stack using my
MAINSTACKER.REV from
whence it can be called via the message box whenever it is
required.  If it is kept external to the HOME stack (say as
a plugin) it does not function properly.

It does, however, violate the RUNTIME REVOLUTION license
agreement.......

I, therefore, am merely noting this but not encouraging
anybody to do it.

I hope the RR brains will release a 'RR 2.0.2' or somesuch
to stop evil-minded characters like myself from breaking
faith.......

Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 09:28:13 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul  2 09:28:13 2003
Subject: Launching a Cygwin/DOS program 
In-Reply-To: <IEENIBKPNJOKEMHOKOFCEEOBCJAA.hansydelm@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030702142103.85180.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Hans <hansydelm at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Can anybody explain to me how to correctly invoke a
> DOS(Cygwin) program
> under windows2k from revolution (1.1.1 or 2.0)?
> 
> The following command fails:
> 
>  launch "cygwin_program > logfile.txt"
> 
> However, when I put the cygwin_program into a DOS
> batch file it all works,
> 
> batch file :
>   cygwin_program > %1
> Revolution :
>   launch "cygwin_program.bat logfile.txt"
> 
> If I use the open process command revolution hangs
> 
> open process "cygwin_program" for read
> read from process "cygwin_program" until end
> put it into field "logfile"
> close process "cygwin_program"
> 
> Running the cygwin_program from a cygwin shell or
> from a DOS box works fine.
> Cygwin1.dll is in the search path. Using Linux (RH8)
> I have no problems
> whatsoever :-)
> 
> Any idea?
> 
> Thanks,
> Hans.
> 

Hi Hans,

Try the 'shell' function.
  get shell("cygwin_program > logfile.txt")

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul  2 09:40:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul  2 09:40:01 2003
Subject: visual effect on Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <DFC18E21-AC95-11D7-8906-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <CB9937A4-AC98-11D7-8A10-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bonjour Yves,

> Hello,
>
>
> I'd like to use the new :
>
> "go to stack "xxx" as sheet"
>
> for mac OS X
>
> But there is a visual effect I 'd like to add : on Mac OS X there is 
> also a sort of
> expansion of the DLOG coming from the top of the window : is it 
> possible to add that in Revolution ?

This will happen automatically if the "sheet" stack is bigger than the 
"calling" stack ;-)
(If i understand you right...)

> Thanks.
>
> Greetings.
> Yves COPPE

Au revoir.


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From themacguy at macosx.com  Wed Jul  2 09:40:13 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Wed Jul  2 09:40:13 2003
Subject: Speech Synthesis on Windows
In-Reply-To: <200307020701.DAA31130@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7DDDF4A9-AC99-11D7-90DA-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Chipp,

Thanks for your input. I had already figured I would need to record my 
own speech as AIFF for the best cross-platform compatibility. I'll save 
the speech synthesis for another, Mac-only, project.

Regards,
Barry

On Wednesday, Jul 2, 2003, at 01:01 America/Denver, Chipp wrote:

> From: "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: RE: Speech synthesis on Windows
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:24:11 -0500
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
> Hi Barry,
>
> I'm pretty sure there isn't a ubiquitous solution for Speech on 
> Windowsv via
> RunRev. I checked around last night and found out they're shipping the 
> SAPI
> 5.1 now with new WinXP, and RunRev Speech doesn't work with SAPI 5.1. 
> In
> fact, it's a bit confusing even trying to find out what version of 
> SAPI is
> running on WinXP.
>
> I think RR will need to update the Speech libraries for Windows users.
>
> --Chipp
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Barry 
>> Levine
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 7:02 PM
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Subject: Speech synthesis on Windows
>>
>>
>> I've used Macintalk within Rev to make my Mac speak phrases I have in
>> fields (not user entered but static). How can I do this on a Windows 
>> PC
>> without requiring some special hardware? Is there any "standard 
>> minimum
>> configuration" that might be valid to spec?
>>
>> If I have to include real AIFF files on both platforms to make the
>> features common I will do so. I was just wondering...
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Barry
>>
--------------------------------------------------------
Barry Jay Levine
"The Mac Guy"

Macintosh Troubleshooting, System Engineering, Training,
AppleShare/OSX Server Setup, System Upgrades and Enhancements,
Custom Programming for Mac/Windows/Linux/Solaris

On-Site service for K20, Business, Consumer

Phone/VoiceMail: 915-581-1105
             Fax: 915-581-8167
           eMail: themacguy at macosx.com
--------------------------------------------------------



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 09:40:20 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul  2 09:40:20 2003
Subject: visual effect on Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <DFC18E21-AC95-11D7-8906-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <20030702142928.60532.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Yves COPPE <yvescoppe at skynet.be> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I'd like to use the new :
> 
> "go to stack "xxx" as sheet"
> 
> for mac OS X
> 
> But there is a visual effect I 'd like to add : on
> Mac OS X there is 
> also a sort of expansion of the DLOG coming from the
> top of the window 
> : is it possible to add that in Revolution ?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Greetings.
> Yves COPPE
> 

Hi Yves,

Simply use the 'sheet' command, it should take care of
the visual effect on its own.
  sheet "xxx"
If that doesn't cut it, have a look at the
'revChangeWindowSize' command.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Jul  2 10:20:02 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed Jul  2 10:20:02 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <200307021331.JAA07409@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB284587.1AA4%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello Scott,

> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:05:08 -0700
> Subject: Re: More send in time
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>

>> Thanks. Yes, I understand. What other things besides the mouse might have
>> these same kinds of handling characteristics?
> 
> You can see the recent posts (and docs) on mouseWithin/mouseMove...
----------
Yes, I know about those. What I meant was:

What _other_ things _besides_ the mouse? Non-mouse-oriented.

TIA,
Ken N.



From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul  2 11:16:01 2003
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Wed Jul  2 11:16:01 2003
Subject: Some basic questions about fld tables
Message-ID: <p05100300bb28a6ea2daa@[62.30.170.185]>

Thanks to Francois Cuneo and his questions, and to the clever people 
who answered them, and even  (in the case of HyperChris at aol.com) went 
a lot further. But compared with other aspects of RunRev, I must say 
that it seems a miserable way to have to learn about what appears to 
be a major new feature of the system. The fact is that there just 
isn't enough documentation to make it possible to use tables in a 
normal way (which IMHO is(by reading round the subject, doing a bit 
of experimenting etc, but not looking 'under the hood' in the IDE, 
exploring undocumented properties etc), and also there would appear 
to be some features of the implementation (especially the very 
limited way tables create events and respond to messages) which stop 
them being as useful as I for one might have hoped. Struggling on, 
however, AFAICS the following has not been covered even in 
HyperChris's work: how does the 'format... using' system work? For a 
start how does the nomenclature work - in the tableFun stack, we get 
a reference to some 'part of the field (i.e. some cells of the table) 
being formatted using 'decimal. The ref says

1,1:3,17	   Decimal:1

What does this actually mean? Assuming this is a kind of address list 
for cells which will be formatted as Decimal, what happens when I put 
a non-decimal value into one of these cells - AFAICS, nothing. What 
then does the 'format... using' do? Can't find anything relevant in 
the TD.

Sorry to be grumpy, but I think I'm still going to keep off tables 
until I feel that they're more properly integrated into RunRev. End 
of rant.

Graham
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
          Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  2 11:19:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  2 11:19:00 2003
Subject: visual effect on Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <CB9937A4-AC98-11D7-8A10-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <50C9A6F5-ACA8-11D7-90C0-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le mercredi, 2 juil 2003, ? 16:23 Europe/Brussels, Klaus Major a ?crit :

> Bonjour Yves,
>
> This will happen automatically if the "sheet" stack is bigger than the 
> "calling" stack ;-)
> (If i understand you right...)
>
> Au revoir.
>
>
>

Oops, yes that is !
Thanks

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul  2 11:57:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul  2 11:57:00 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <BB284587.1AA4%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <2F1322F6-ACAD-11D7-BFAE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

At the risk of being sacrilegious...

Maybe we are being too strict on this mouse thing.

1.
The meaning of "the mouse" has changed with Revolution 2.0 to what one 
might expect and is easier to use in loops.

2.
The use of "the mouse" in a loop is blocking in three senses.  It 
blocks that handler, of course.  It blocks one's entire application-- 
no downloading, no handler driven game motion, no serial I/O and so on. 
  And, most important in my mind, it blocks design opportunity.

Given that #2 is a simply a strong admonition and #1 opens up some 
doors, maybe we can lighten up on this.

Or is there a #3?

Dar Scott



From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  2 12:26:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  2 12:26:00 2003
Subject: Some basic questions about fld tables
Message-ID: <200307021718.h62HIMm18782@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

I haven't worked with them enough to know for sure, but my *guess* is that the term "decimal" refers to the type of tab-stop, not the format of the content.

>For a 
>start how does the nomenclature work - in the
>tableFun stack, we get 
>a reference to some 'part of the field (i.e. some
>cells of the table) 
>being formatted using 'decimal. The ref says
>
>1,1:3,17	    Decimal:1
>
>What does this actually mean? Assuming this is a
>kind of address list 
>for cells which will be formatted as Decimal, what
>happens when I put 
>a non-decimal value into one of these cells -
>AFAICS, nothing. What 
>then does the 'format... using' do? Can't find
>anything relevant in 
>the TD.


From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  2 12:32:03 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  2 12:32:03 2003
Subject: More debuggerbears
Message-ID: <200307021724.h62HOOY20436@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

I am finding that the function of the Step Over button is very unreliable (Windows 2K, RR 2.02).

My understanding of it - and the way that it works sometimes - is that when I am clicking through a script using Step Over, that it should not dive down into functions and so on - I should stay in the main script.

Now, since I have a couple of functions in the program I am debugging that do transformations on data based on iterating through a fairly large table of data once for each characters in a variable (which can be 20 or more characters in length), the debugger nearly useless if it decides, for whatever reason, to do a Step Into instead of a Step Over. I know this function works perfectly, I don't want to have to sit and watch it step through for 10 minutes before getting back to the script which called it - which I am VERY interested in debugging.

Anyone else seeing this?


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Jul  2 12:36:00 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Wed Jul  2 12:36:00 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
In-Reply-To: <50C9A6F5-ACA8-11D7-90C0-000393533246@skynet.be>
References: <50C9A6F5-ACA8-11D7-90C0-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <a05200f05bb28c5f3e268@[10.0.1.2]>

I am using the following to place a JPG onto the clipboard:

set the clipboardData["image"] to url ("binfile:"&tPhotoChoice)

When I paste the clipboard into another app it appears to paste
a PNG file which is much larger in k than the original JPG.

Is there any way to place the original JPG (and not a larger PNG)
onto the clipboard?

TIA

sims
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From bornstein at designeq.com  Wed Jul  2 13:08:00 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Wed Jul  2 13:08:00 2003
Subject: mac OS X package
Message-ID: <200307021800.h62I0Ws4006883@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>

#1 and #3 are NOT fixed in 2.01. (At least under OS 9)

>Upgrade to 2.01.
>
>
>On Tuesday, Jul 1, 2003, at 11:24 America/Detroit, Yves COPPE wrote:
>
>> I've 3 problems with Building apps for Mac OS X with Rev 2.0
>>
>>
>> 1) when i ask the build stack, this is two small, I don't have access 
>> to the button at the bottom of the window ????
>>
>>
>> 2) When I build an app, then ask show contents of the packages, where 
>> are the substacks files ?
>>
>> 3) I've chosen an icon for my app (a jpeg file) clicking on the button 
>> "choose" but the app doesn't have this icon The app has the generic 
>> icon of mac OS X app.


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Wed Jul  2 13:09:01 2003
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Wed Jul  2 13:09:01 2003
Subject: OT: mp3 vs mp4
Message-ID: <a05210601bb28cb665488@[192.168.1.100]>

>Does anyone know about the merits/problems of encoding audio for 
>internet delivery as mp4 (presumably smaller files and better 
>quality) vs sticking with mp3? One issue we know of is that RealOne 
>Player will play mp3 files now (their own .ra codec is really no 
>longer needed)

Realplayers have been able to play mp3s for years, as long as they 
are designated as the default player, however they were regarded as 
not 'sounding as good' as other players such as Audion or Winamp. For 
a long while, Real products were a pain in the ass as they viciously 
modified user settings for every format it could play. People 
complained, and they backed off the practice. I'd see sometimes 4-5 
instances of identical realplayer assignments in the Mac Internet 
panel.

>  but perhaps .mp4 files will not play on windows. Problem being, as 
>a Mac user, I find everything, works everywhere... We would like to 
>switch to mp4 but am worried that it could break on windows 
>machines, both in Revolution (i.e. using Quick
>time on Windows) and in RealOne Player.

Nothing beats real for the most compact and easily streamed files for 
voice. If the demand is small, you don't need real's server and you 
can still stream by http. Real *did* make a free encoder (albeit 
clumsy to get you to buy the paid one, and no Mac OSX version.  And 
Microsoft still didn't get it... there's still no encoder for mac for 
Windows media...and anyway, what distinguishes Win media from just 
being a me-too format except the enormous might of an almost-monopoly?

>
>Any thoughts or input welcome (email me off list it this thread 
>seems to far a field though though other developers may be 
>interested.
>
>
>TIA
>
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Wed Jul  2 13:19:00 2003
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Wed Jul  2 13:19:00 2003
Subject: Goings on behind the scene
Message-ID: <a05210604bb28d0a18e59@[192.168.1.100]>

Jim, this might be a Eudora problem - I've had this annoying 
situation with Eudora windows that were supposed to be in the 
background rudely popping up into another app I was working in... 
(OSX)...

It's so bad I have to quit Eudora completely sometimes...

obviously anti any user interface guidelines I've heard of...no other 
app has done this..

sqb


>I had a button with the following handler.:
>
>on mouseEnter
>  beep
>end mouseEnter
>
>Sure enough, it beeped every time the mouse entered.
>
>But I left RR to respond to an incoming email. I noticed while in 
>Eudora that I was getting occasional beeps, every time the mouse 
>entered a certain area. I finally tracked it down to the Run Rev 
>button *underneath* Eudora. When the mouse *in Eudora* was over the 
>button hidden *in Run Rev*, Run Rev was still at work reading 
>messages and registering beeps.
>
>Actually it happened regardless of the program. This is spooky. I 
>guess I knew that other programs were always at work, out of sight 
>and out of mind; else how would I have known that a fresh email had 
>arrived. I had also run into this fact earlier when I was getting 
>inconsistent results from a "wait 0" command.
>
>But it certainly came as a surprise that Run Rev is polling the 
>mouse while I am preoccupied elsewhere.
>
>Oddly enough, this beeping button does not respond to the MouseEnter 
>(or mousewithin) when it is covered by another button within Run Rev.
>
>Live and learn; live and blunder into things.
>
>Jim


From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  2 13:24:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  2 13:24:00 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
Message-ID: <200307021816.h62IGYJ36180@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

My understanding is that RunRev uses PNG internally for all images, so if the image is actually imported there is nothing you can do.

Now, what you *can* do, is write something that, when you paste a graphic into a stack, exports the graphic to an images folder as a jpeg, then assigns the image object on the card the filename of the external file. In some situations this can save you lots of spce - though you then have to deal with other issues of course.

This is the way that CDDbase, and Amazon Assistant, two of my programs that deal with hundreds of images, are set up.

If you want more details, I would be happy to go into.

>I am using the following to place a JPG onto the
>clipboard:
>
>set the clipboardData["image"] to url
>("binfile:"&tPhotoChoice)
>
>When I paste the clipboard into another app it
>appears to paste
>a PNG file which is much larger in k than the
>original JPG.
>
>Is there any way to place the original JPG (and not
>a larger PNG)
>onto the clipboard?
>
>TIA
>
>sims
>-- 
>    http://EZPZapps.com	 info at EZPZapps.com
>	Software - Internet Development - Consulting
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>---------------------------------------------------
>--------
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul  2 13:47:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul  2 13:47:00 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
In-Reply-To: <200307021816.h62IGYJ36180@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <BB2874C5.30085%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Edwin Gore wrote:

> My understanding is that RunRev uses PNG internally for all images, so if the
> image is actually imported there is nothing you can do.
> 
> Now, what you *can* do, is write something that, when you paste a graphic into
> a stack, exports the graphic to an images folder as a jpeg, then assigns the
> image object on the card the filename of the external file. In some situations
> this can save you lots of spce - though you then have to deal with other
> issues of course.

I wonder if changing the imageCompression property will help with clipboard
activities....

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul  2 14:12:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul  2 14:12:00 2003
Subject: Goings on behind the scene
In-Reply-To: <a05210608bb27f051fa60@[66.81.143.244]>
Message-ID: <0876B542-ACC0-11D7-BFAE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 1, 2003, at 08:24 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:

> Actually what I find to be the most use shortcut is
>
>    command-control-shift (on the Mac.)

This gets a sticker on the monitor!  (You know Dora in the movie 
"Finding Nemo"?  That's me.  Don't remember a thing.)

I put a multi-button mouse on my Mac so this is 
command-shift-rightclick for me.

Dar Scott



From HyperChris at aol.com  Wed Jul  2 14:12:09 2003
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Wed Jul  2 14:12:09 2003
Subject: Table Grumps
Message-ID: <17b.1cb9a7a0.2c3486a7@aol.com>

> >1,1:3,17? ? ?? Decimal:1
> >
> >What does this actually mean? Assuming this is a kind of address list
> >for cells which will be formatted as Decimal, what happens when I put
> >a non-decimal value into one of these cells - AFAICS, nothing. What
> >then does the 'format... using' do? Can't find anything relevant in
> >the TD.
> 
You sure are correct about the anemic documentation.

I interpet that line '1,1:3,17? ? ?? Decimal:1' to be ....
   format cell 1,1 to 3,17 using 0.0 format (1 place decimal)

That IS working on my little timecard spreadsheet project. That is a work in 
progress, so sorry if some of it isn't up to snuff, but I thought you might 
like to see it so I posted it at ...
   http://www.christophercomputers.com/rev.html

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From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  2 14:16:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  2 14:16:00 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
Message-ID: <200307021908.h62J8FP51697@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

>I wonder if changing the imageCompression property
>will help with clipboard
>activities....

Do you mean paintCompression? I haven't played with it, but looking at the docs, it *seems* like you could do something like paste an image into a stack, change the paintCompression to "jpeg" , make some minor change to the image through scripting the paint tools, then switch to another card, return, and the image will be re-compressed as a jpeg.

The main thing that worries me here is that quality might go down, since it seems it's being encoded as either a PNG or an RLE when it's initally pasted in, and the re-compressed as a JPEG.

The idea does have possibilities though...



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Jul  2 14:27:01 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Wed Jul  2 14:27:01 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
In-Reply-To: <BB2874C5.30085%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BB2874C5.30085%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f06bb28de5a9a70@[10.0.1.2]>

>I wonder if changing the imageCompression property will help with clipboard
>activities....
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin

Hmmm...I looked for imageCompression in the Transcript Language Dictionary
and it came up blank. Is there another name for this?

tia

sims
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Jul  2 14:27:09 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Wed Jul  2 14:27:09 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
In-Reply-To: <200307021816.h62IGYJ36180@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
References: <200307021816.h62IGYJ36180@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f07bb28deffc12f@[10.0.1.2]>

>My understanding is that RunRev uses PNG internally for all images, 
>so if the image is actually imported there is nothing you can do.
>
>Now, what you *can* do, is write something that, when you paste a 
>graphic into a stack, exports the graphic to an images folder as a 
>jpeg, then assigns the image object on the card the filename of the 
>external file. In some situations this can save you lots of spce - 
>though you then have to deal with other issues of course.

Good idea if pasting into a stack, but I want to paste it into other apps
such as an Eudora email, Word, etc. A 100k JPG can balloon to 400k PNG
when pasted from the clipboard into an email message...such an increase
is dramatic, especially if using a dial-up.

Thanks for the suggestion though...

I can set the fileType to JPG  - write to a file - perhaps I can dig 
up an applescript
which will then put that JPG onto the clipboard and then I delete JPG 
file I made...
a bit complicated though.

sims
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  2 14:45:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  2 14:45:00 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
Message-ID: <200307021937.h62JbJc59114@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Hmmmmm...given that what you are doing is pasting out of RunRev to other apps, I'm not sure what you can do...

The jpegQuality property only applies to files written to disk, and RunRev appears to automatically convert any copied image into PNG on the clipboard, and there is no way to control the quality of the PNG. This may only be solvable through non-cross-platform means like Applescript.

Or include a cable modem with each copy of the app ;-)

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: sims <sims at ezpzapps.com>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:11:53
>
>>I wonder if changing the imageCompression property
>will help with clipboard
>>activities....
>>
>>--
>>  Richard Gaskin
>
>Hmmm...I looked for imageCompression in the
>Transcript Language Dictionary
>and it came up blank. Is there another name for
>this?
>
>tia
>
>sims
>-- 
>    http://EZPZapps.com	 info at EZPZapps.com
>	Software - Internet Development - Consulting
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>---------------------------------------------------
>--------
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul  2 15:05:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul  2 15:05:01 2003
Subject: the formattedHeight of a field
Message-ID: <6FD5F72C-ACC7-11D7-BFAE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

I don't understand this.

I have a field.

the height = 85
the borderWidth = 2
The font is "Courier New", 11 pt, bold
Don't wrap is true.
The htmlText shows no per char formatting.
the fixedLineHeight is true or false
the margins = 8
the showFocusBorder is false


For 10 lines of text I get this:

the formattedHeight                  ==> 168
the formattedHeight of char 1 to -1  ==> 140
the formattedHeight of char 1        ==>  14

Que Pasa?

168 - 2 - 2 - 8 - 8 = 148

What are the other 8 pixels?  The TD says the focus border is counted 
in the margins and besides it is off.

Dar Scott




From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Jul  2 15:23:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed Jul  2 15:23:00 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1560 - 8 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200307021603.MAA11746@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307021603.MAA11746@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb28e6a5498d@[66.81.129.60]>

>
>Message: 8
>Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:49:44 -0600
>Subject: Re: More send in time
>From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>At the risk of being sacrilegious...
>
>Maybe we are being too strict on this mouse thing.
>
>1.
>The meaning of "the mouse" has changed with Revolution 2.0 to what one
>might expect and is easier to use in loops.
>
>2.
>The use of "the mouse" in a loop is blocking in three senses.  It
>blocks that handler, of course.  It blocks one's entire application--
>no downloading, no handler driven game motion, no serial I/O and so on.
>   And, most important in my mind, it blocks design opportunity.
>
>Given that #2 is a simply a strong admonition and #1 opens up some
>doors, maybe we can lighten up on this.
>
>Or is there a #3?
>
>Dar Scott


I am curious about this change in the meaning of "the mouse" in Run Rev 2.0

In the past the following staple from HC:

on mouseDown
   repeat while the mouse is down
     set the loc of me to the mouseLoc
   end repeat
end mouseDown

was not only frowned upon because it exhausted the CPU,  but, at 
least on the Mac, there was an intermittent bug in the engine which 
caused the mouse to stick to the button even after a MouseUp.
Is the bug gone?

Is there some way in  which we can experiment with Mouse down, 
mouseClick etc. to see  how a handler consumes CPU time using the 
ability of the debugger in RR 2.0 to display messages? For example I 
was curious to see how mouseclick compared with mouse is down.

JIm


P.S. Another item to add to the tips that have been circulating--at 
least for the Mac. I suspect others have had my frustration in 
looking for that little gem of a handler that lies buried in a 
forgotten stack. It turns out that Sherlock inventories Run Rev (as 
well as  MC and HC) scripts. Just search *the contents* of your drive 
files for some key word from that old gem and it should come up. 
(Sort by kind to cluster the results.)



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul  2 15:28:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul  2 15:28:01 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
In-Reply-To: <a05200f05bb28c5f3e268@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <93212D59-ACCA-11D7-8A10-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi sims,

> I am using the following to place a JPG onto the clipboard:
>
> set the clipboardData["image"] to url ("binfile:"&tPhotoChoice)
>
> When I paste the clipboard into another app it appears to paste
> a PNG file which is much larger in k than the original JPG.
>
> Is there any way to place the original JPG (and not a larger PNG)
> onto the clipboard?

i am not a techie so my explanation my be a bit naive :-)

I think that JPG is a compressed fileformat (sic!) which means that the
original image data (24 bit per pixel, no alpha channel in JPGs) will
get decompressed when put into the clipboard or opened in memory
by image editors.

When i open a JPG in Photoshop, the info also reports the big filesize.


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul  2 15:43:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul  2 15:43:00 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
In-Reply-To: <93212D59-ACCA-11D7-8A10-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BB28902A.7BC6%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Klaus Major"  wrote:

>> I am using the following to place a JPG onto the clipboard:
>> 
>> set the clipboardData["image"] to url ("binfile:"&tPhotoChoice)
>> 
>> When I paste the clipboard into another app it appears to paste
>> a PNG file which is much larger in k than the original JPG.
>> 
>> Is there any way to place the original JPG (and not a larger PNG)
>> onto the clipboard?
> 
> i am not a techie so my explanation my be a bit naive :-)
> 
> I think that JPG is a compressed fileformat (sic!) which means that the
> original image data (24 bit per pixel, no alpha channel in JPGs) will
> get decompressed when put into the clipboard or opened in memory
> by image editors.

It's true that JPEGs are compressed, but it's also true that the file format
is "lossy" (not lossless).  In other words, each time a JPEG is compressed,
information is lost.  With low compression, you may not notice any
artifacts, but with high compression you will see a high degree of odd color
patches and other artifacts.  So in reality, the 24 bit data is not stored
in the JPEG image.

24 bit PNG is a compressed and lossless format, and GIF can also be lossless
if the source image contains no more than 256 colors.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  2 15:47:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  2 15:47:01 2003
Subject: default button on OS X
Message-ID: <C20456A0-ACCD-11D7-B803-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hello,

I make a push btn and look at the inspector "Basic prop"

When I use a btn and ask "default btn" on OS X
this btn flashes a little to invite the user for clicking : GREAT

BUT
there is a square round the button and when I build my app this square 
is black ! NOT GREAT

I've tried  with the check btn of the palette "inspector" to make the 
quare disappear without success.
`
Has anyone a idea ?

Thanks.

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  2 15:51:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  2 15:51:00 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
Message-ID: <200307022043.h62KhXk79095@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

That about sums up the situation. I believe that the hope was that there might be someway of placing the compressed data onto the clipboard, so that it could be pasted into applications that understand jpg - for example when you attach a jpg file to many mail programs it displays the image rather than a file icon.

I believe that you are correct though, and there is no easy way to do this.

>i am not a techie so my explanation my be a bit
>naive :-)
>
>I think that JPG is a compressed fileformat (sic!)
>which means that the
>original image data (24 bit per pixel, no alpha
>channel in JPGs) will
>get decompressed when put into the clipboard or
>opened in memory
>by image editors.
>
>When i open a JPG in Photoshop, the info also
>reports the big filesize.
>
>
>Regards
>
>Klaus Major
>klaus at major-k.de
>www.major-k.de
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  2 16:01:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  2 16:01:00 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
Message-ID: <200307022053.h62KrJ984051@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

>So in reality, the 24
>bit data is not stored
>in the JPEG image.

It is accurate though to say that the memory footprint of an opened jpg file is the same as a 24-bit image of x-width and x-height, even it's not the same data as the original uncompressed (pre-jpeging) image. The jpg is still being expanded to a X by X 24-bit bitmap in memory, the the size concerns remain the same.

I assume that when I copy a jpg-image out fo RunRev that it is basically opening it into memory full size (or RLE encoded, I guess under windows) then it takes that and PNG encodes it, and that is what it makes available through the clipboard. It would be nice to be able to just get the original compressed jpg-data, since I know I have seen jpeg data on the clipboard before (under windows).

Gosh...all this talk of what is actually getting copied and stored inthe clipboard is making me nostalgic for the old Scrapbook on the mac, where you could past things into it and it would list all the data types that were associated with the scrap. Does the mac still have the scrapbook? I couldn't find it last time I was playing with one...if not too bad, that's the one thing that I really ever missed on windows.


From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Wed Jul  2 16:23:00 2003
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed Jul  2 16:23:00 2003
Subject: default button on OS X
In-Reply-To: <C20456A0-ACCD-11D7-B803-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <536780CA-ACD2-11D7-8B5C-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 01:42 PM, Yves COPPE wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I make a push btn and look at the inspector "Basic prop"
>
> When I use a btn and ask "default btn" on OS X
> this btn flashes a little to invite the user for clicking : GREAT
>
> BUT
> there is a square round the button and when I build my app this square 
> is black ! NOT GREAT
>
> I've tried  with the check btn of the palette "inspector" to make the 
> quare disappear without success.
> `
> Has anyone a idea ?
>
>

The problem lies with the current carbon API for X.  Your only recourse 
to make sure that your button does not touch any other object.



Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Wed Jul  2 16:28:00 2003
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Wed Jul  2 16:28:00 2003
Subject: doubleclicking a stack
In-Reply-To: <200307021329.JAA07263@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <147B986A-ACD3-11D7-90C0-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Wednesday, Jul 2, 2003, at 23:29 Australia/Sydney, Klaus Major 
<klaus at major-k.de> wrote:
>
> just a short question.
>
> After doubleclicking a stack in RR 1.xx ONLY that stack was displayed.
>
> Now in 2.x the complete IDE starts?
>
> Bug or feature?
>
> I thought it was supposed to work like MC,
> doubleclicking a stack will only launch that file and
> holding the command key while doubleclicking lauches the
> stack AND the IDE...

Klaus

A feature.

I recall many but intermittent posts about this 1.x/MC behaviour last 
year. Basically, more people wanted what is now the 2.x behaviour 
rather than the old one, so it was changed. I expect that most of those 
wanting the change came straight to Rev without prior MC experience (I 
am one) and expected either HC-like behaviour or else what was 
considered natural; that double-clicking a development file opened the 
development environment.

Recently, in relation to learning Rev, there have been posts about the 
likelihood that a Rev user might have prior experience of HC. Many 
users are on Lin/Win environments rather than Mac now. I expect this 
will open up discussion on the extent to which Rev should continue to 
adhere to HC standards, and I for one (despite being a Mac user coming 
from HC) think Rev is strong enough to be cutting more of those ties 
where it makes developmental sense.

regards
David
>
> This way it is hard (actually impossible) to use RR as simple 
> "player"-app for stacks.
>
>
> Clueless...
>
> Klaus Major



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul  2 16:33:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul  2 16:33:00 2003
Subject: The meaning of "the mouse" in 2.0
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bb28e6a5498d@[66.81.129.60]>
Message-ID: <B85D65B6-ACD3-11D7-BFAE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 02:15 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:

> I am curious about this change in the meaning of "the mouse" in Run 
> Rev 2.0

 From 'What's New.txt' that came with my download:

      - The "mouse" function now reports the state
      of the mouse button at the moment the function
      is called. Formerly, this function reported
      whether the mouse button had been pressed since
      the current handler started. (In general, it is
      recommended to handle the "mouseDown", "mouseRelease",
      and "mouseUp" messages rather than check the state of
      the "mouse" in a handler.)

>
> In the past the following staple from HC:
>
> on mouseDown
>   repeat while the mouse is down
>     set the loc of me to the mouseLoc
>   end repeat
> end mouseDown
>
> was not only frowned upon because it exhausted the CPU,  but, at least 
> on the Mac, there was an intermittent bug in the engine which caused 
> the mouse to stick to the button even after a MouseUp.
> Is the bug gone?

Whether it be bug or not, the behavior is not the same.


> Is there some way in  which we can experiment with Mouse down, 
> mouseClick etc. to see  how a handler consumes CPU time using the 
> ability of the debugger in RR 2.0 to display messages? For example I 
> was curious to see how mouseclick compared with mouse is down.

CPU Monitor

On my OS X I can use CPU Monitor.  I have two processors so it shows 
two meters.

With the above function, usage jumps so that the total of the two 
meters is 100% of one processor.  Either one is max'd and the other is 
minimal or both are about half way.

However, this loop is not the same:

on mouseDown
   repeat while the mouse is down
     set the loc of me to the mouseLoc
     wait 20 milliseconds
   end repeat
end mouseDown

This usually barely shows on either meter but will sometimes peak at 
50% of one processor.  Changing the delay to .1 seconds makes the 
handler not show up at all on the meters.  The drag is a little jerky 
at .1 s, but is quite acceptable on my computer.

I think there is a lesson here.  Maybe it is the #3 missing from my 
list.

3.
Use wait in tight polling loops.  If you just have to use a loop.  This 
might apply to other loops such as a read from a serial port.  If you 
just have to use a loop.  Leave out the wait and you consume too much 
CPU.

If you don't have this utility you can build a standalone that, uh, 
does something clever.

Dar Scott



From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul  2 16:42:01 2003
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Wed Jul  2 16:42:01 2003
Subject: Table Grumps
Message-ID: <p05100301bb28fba11599@[62.30.170.185]>

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:04:07 EDT, HyperChris at aol.com wrote:
At 15:24 -0400 2/7/03, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>
>You sure are correct about the anemic documentation.
>
>I interpet that line '1,1:3,17=A0 =A0 =A0=A0 Decimal:1' to be ....
>    format cell 1,1 to 3,17 using 0.0 format (1 place decimal)

[OT: the "=A0" stuff seems to have crept in through some different 
concept of 'plain text' in our respective email clients - I guess]

>
>That IS working on my little timecard spreadsheet project. That is a work in=
>=20
>progress, so sorry if some of it isn't up to snuff, but I thought you might=20
>like to see it so I posted it at ...
>    http://www.christophercomputers.com/rev.html

Yes, I've seen it (if it's "Table Fun") and it's illuminating - I 
didn't mean to criticise it at all. My real point was that it's not 
much use having a language feature that requires the level of 
research you've put in, just to understand what that feature is and 
does; and of course there's no guarantee that you'll get to the 
bottom of the whole thing as you're basically guessing.

On 2 Jul 2003 13:18:22 -0700, "Edwin Gore" <edgore at shinra.com> wrote:
>
>I haven't worked with them enough to know for sure, but my *guess* 
>is that the term "decimal" refers to the type of tab-stop, not the 
>format of the content.

I don't think this can be right, because the choices are Prefix, 
Suffix, Decimal, Scientific, Date - which look like conventional data 
formats to me.

BTW, referring to my earlier question about nomenclature, if I tell a 
RunRev table that I want to format cell 1 of column 1, the reference 
is shown as

  1,1:1,6

I still don't get it...

Graham


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
          Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul  2 16:50:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul  2 16:50:00 2003
Subject: The meaning of "the mouse" in 2.0
In-Reply-To: <B85D65B6-ACD3-11D7-BFAE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <1B6D89B6-ACD6-11D7-BFAE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 03:25 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> On my OS X I can use CPU Monitor.  I have two processors so it shows 
> two meters.

Ooooh-ooh-ooh!  And with Process Viewer I can see the numbers!  
Revolution ambient usage is about 1 to 7 %, with the tight loop that 
jumps up to 95 to 110 %.  With a .1 second delay there is nothing I can 
see above what it is just before or just after.

Dar Scott



From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  2 18:09:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  2 18:09:00 2003
Subject: Maximum variable size?
Message-ID: <200307022301.h62N1aL16075@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Curious - is anyone aware of a limit on the size of a variable in RunRev? I didn't see anything in the limitations section of the docs...

I ask because I have a function that goes through and replaces a whole bunch of stuff in a variable ie:

Function replaceStuff
replace "wordA" with VariableA in VariableZ
replace "wordC" with VariableC in VariableZ
replace "wordX" with VariableX in VariableZ
end ReplaceSTuff

When I hit the last line of this function, I get a system crash, and revolution quits out.

VariableZ is about 140K and variableX is about 170K

What's interesting, is that in the case that crashes reliably (as in everytime) VariableZ does not contain wordX

Any ideas? I figure that the next thing I will try, just to troubleshoot, is plopping VariableZ into field "Z" and doing the replace on that instead, since fields are unlimited...


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Jul  2 18:38:00 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed Jul  2 18:38:00 2003
Subject: Maximum variable size?
In-Reply-To: <200307022301.h62N1aL16075@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCIEOIFGAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Edwin,

be careful of the previously mentioned 64K per line of a field.

Also, consider using a byRef variable in a Handler as opposed to a function. I'm not sure, but I'm not sure how you're passing data to the function, but it may be being duplicated.

on replaceCRwBR @pval
  replace CR with "<br>" in pval
end replaceCRwBR

-Chipp

> 
> Curious - is anyone aware of a limit on the size of a variable in 
> RunRev? I didn't see anything in the limitations section of the docs...
> 
> I ask because I have a function that goes through and replaces a 
> whole bunch of stuff in a variable ie:
> 
> Function replaceStuff
> replace "wordA" with VariableA in VariableZ
> replace "wordC" with VariableC in VariableZ
> replace "wordX" with VariableX in VariableZ
> end ReplaceSTuff
> 
> When I hit the last line of this function, I get a system crash, 
> and revolution quits out.
> 
> VariableZ is about 140K and variableX is about 170K
> 
> What's interesting, is that in the case that crashes reliably (as 
> in everytime) VariableZ does not contain wordX
> 
> Any ideas? I figure that the next thing I will try, just to 
> troubleshoot, is plopping VariableZ into field "Z" and doing the 
> replace on that instead, since fields are unlimited...
> 



From awirz at scout-systems.ch  Wed Jul  2 19:04:00 2003
From: awirz at scout-systems.ch (Adrian Wirz)
Date: Wed Jul  2 19:04:00 2003
Subject: Calling external library code
Message-ID: <992558587awirz@scout-systems.ch>

I'm trying to find out how I can access a Shared Library (e.g. 4DOpen V6.7.1) from Revolution 2.01 on Mac OS 9.2.2 . Could anybody give me a hint where I can find information or documentation about it.

I already learned that I have to build a file containing XCMD and XFCN resources which I assume are just an interface for calls to a shared library. But some of the messages from the list are rather confusing and do not contain much information about the purpose of the XCMD and XFCN resources and how exactly they have to be built.

Another question I have is: How can I find out which XCMD and XFCN commands are loaded and available for programming (e.g. accepted as valid in a script).

I'd be grateful for any help!

********************************************************************
*       Adrian D. Wirz, Macintosh Software Developer               *
*       SCOUT Systems, Switzerland                                 *
********************************************************************




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Jul  2 19:12:00 2003
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed Jul  2 19:12:00 2003
Subject: Speech synthesis on Windows
In-Reply-To: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAEENEENAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAEENEENAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <15691181241.20030702170445@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

It gets worse. SAPI is downloadable from MS and can be installed on
any Windows system going back to Win98. Windows XP throws in another
monkey wrench with its "side-by-side" technology, which allows it to
archive different versions of DLLs to work with different pieces of
software. So it's conceivable that SAPI 5.0 could be installed on a
WindowsXP machine, the user upgrades to 5.1, and they're both there.
Somewhere.

-Mark Wieder

Tuesday, July 1, 2003, 8:24:11 PM, you wrote:

CW> I'm pretty sure there isn't a ubiquitous solution for Speech on Windowsv via
CW> RunRev. I checked around last night and found out they're shipping the SAPI
CW> 5.1 now with new WinXP, and RunRev Speech doesn't work with SAPI 5.1. In
CW> fact, it's a bit confusing even trying to find out what version of SAPI is
CW> running on WinXP.

CW> I think RR will need to update the Speech libraries for Windows users.





From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul  2 19:13:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul  2 19:13:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
Message-ID: <BB28C16C.7BE7%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Greetings List:

I've recently been working on a small game called KodeKraker, a variation of
the classic logic game Mastermind.  I'd like to invite folks with a few
spare moments (!) to take it for a test run.

What started out as a programming exercise turned into a fairly involved
little project.  The game features audio feedback, a custom UI (typical
Tactile Media eye candy), and a fun little custom dialog system (note: no
Flash was used in the making of this game).

To grab the game, type the following in your message box:

   go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev"

The stack runs 285K (folks with slower connections please be patient).

Thanks for reporting any problems or otherwise.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul  2 19:42:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul  2 19:42:01 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
In-Reply-To: <a05200f06bb28de5a9a70@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <BB28C7FE.300C5%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

sims wrote:

>> I wonder if changing the imageCompression property will help with clipboard
>> activities....
>> 
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
> 
> Hmmm...I looked for imageCompression in the Transcript Language Dictionary
> and it came up blank. Is there another name for this?

My bad:  I meant "paintCompression"

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Jul  2 20:50:01 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed Jul  2 20:50:01 2003
Subject: Goings on behind the scene
In-Reply-To: <200307021924.PAA18967@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307021924.PAA18967@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb2934e4abd4@[69.19.169.208]>

>
>Message: 6
>Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:10:52 -0700
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>From: Stephen Quinn Barncard <stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com>
>Subject: Re: Goings on behind the scene
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>Jim, this might be a Eudora problem - I've had this annoying
>situation with Eudora windows that were supposed to be in the
>background rudely popping up into another app I was working in...
>(OSX)...
>
>It's so bad I have to quit Eudora completely sometimes...
>
>obviously anti any user interface guidelines I've heard of...no other
>app has done this..
>
>sqb


Stephen,

Actually it happens with all apps. Try this: Create a button with the handler:

on mouseEnter --or on mouseWithin
   beep
end mouseEnter

Go to any other running app. Move the mouse so that it is over the 
place where the Run Rev button is located. See if you hear a beep. I 
do with all running applications. Turns out we can create our own 
Ghost In the Machine.

Jim


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Jul  2 21:16:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Jul  2 21:16:01 2003
Subject: hyperlinking from list fields
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHKEFJDEAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Hi all

I just noticed that something I assumed would work, doesn't. It seems you
can't hyperlink from a list field. Is it a bug? I would have thought that
the hyperlink behavior would override the list behavior???

I want to have a list field with columns (let's say name & email). I want to
be able to select the line and or click on the email link and handle the
linkClicked message. It seems that the linkClicked message isn't sent if the
part of the line you click on is a link. I think it should be. What do
others think????

I even tried scripting it with mouseUp and the chunk references like
clickChunk and mouseChunk but they seem to refer to the line chars not the
clicked word/group (which makes sense).

Regards

Monte



From bornstein at designeq.com  Wed Jul  2 22:06:00 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Wed Jul  2 22:06:00 2003
Subject: default button on OS X
Message-ID: <200307030258.h632weiY010541@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>

>BUT
>there is a square round the button and when I build my app this square 
>is black ! NOT GREAT

If the square only appears when you click the button, check to see if the 
Focus Border is set to true. If so, set it to false.

Regards,

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  2 22:27:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  2 22:27:00 2003
Subject: More debuggerbears
References: <200307021724.h62HOOY20436@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <001901c34111$ed5b50e0$6501a8c0@ed>

Okay...

I've reported this to the bug-DB - it happens on my XP Home machine, at
well, home.

This really does make the debugger just about useless.

Is no one else having this problem?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Edwin Gore" <edgore at shinra.com>
(sorry, I couldn't resist...)
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:24 PM
Subject: More debuggerbears


> I am finding that the function of the Step Over button is very unreliable
(Windows 2K, RR 2.02).
>
> My understanding of it - and the way that it works sometimes - is that
when I am clicking through a script using Step Over, that it should not dive
down into functions and so on - I should stay in the main script.
>
> Now, since I have a couple of functions in the program I am debugging that
do transformations on data based on iterating through a fairly large table
of data once for each characters in a variable (which can be 20 or more
characters in length), the debugger nearly useless if it decides, for
whatever reason, to do a Step Into instead of a Step Over. I know this
function works perfectly, I don't want to have to sit and watch it step
through for 10 minutes before getting back to the script which called it -
which I am VERY interested in debugging.
>
> Anyone else seeing this?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  2 22:30:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  2 22:30:01 2003
Subject: Goings on behind the scene
References: <200307021924.PAA18967@www.runrev.com> <a05210600bb2934e4abd4@[69.19.169.208]>
Message-ID: <002501c34112$5b01fea0$6501a8c0@ed>

Just tried this on Windows - it does not happen here, on my vastly superior
operating system...

(Banging shoe on table)

We will bury you!!!!!!!!!

(sorry - don't know what came over me....)

----- Original Message ----- > >Jim, this might be a Eudora problem - I've
had this annoying
> >situation with Eudora windows that were supposed to be in the
> >background rudely popping up into another app I was working in...
> >(OSX)...
> >
> >It's so bad I have to quit Eudora completely sometimes...
> >
> >obviously anti any user interface guidelines I've heard of...no other
> >app has done this..
> >
> >sqb
>
>
> Stephen,
>
> Actually it happens with all apps. Try this: Create a button with the
handler:
>
> on mouseEnter --or on mouseWithin
>    beep
> end mouseEnter
>
> Go to any other running app. Move the mouse so that it is over the
> place where the Run Rev button is located. See if you hear a beep. I
> do with all running applications. Turns out we can create our own
> Ghost In the Machine.
>
> Jim



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Jul  2 23:43:00 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Wed Jul  2 23:43:00 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
In-Reply-To: <93212D59-ACCA-11D7-8A10-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <93212D59-ACCA-11D7-8A10-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <a05200f00bb2961f76974@[10.0.1.2]>

Thank you for all the suggestions & education.
For now I am going to give the user an option of clipboard or
creating a JG on the desktop.

Thanks

sims



>>  place a JPG onto the clipboard:
>>set the clipboardData["image"] to url ("binfile:"&tPhotoChoice)

  put a JPG onto the desktop:
   put url ("binfile:"&tPhotoChoice)  into  url 
("binfile:"&tDesk&"/"&tPhotograph&"."&tExt)
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Jul  2 23:45:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed Jul  2 23:45:01 2003
Subject: Speech synthesis on Windows
In-Reply-To: <15691181241.20030702170445@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKELOCJAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Mark,

I had read on MS website: www.microsoft.com/speech that SAPI 4 and SAPI 5.1
can coexist (didn't even know there was a SAPI 5). Do you know how to
identify which version(s) of SAPI are currently installed?

best,

Chipp


> Chipp-
>
> It gets worse. SAPI is downloadable from MS and can be installed on
> any Windows system going back to Win98. Windows XP throws in another
> monkey wrench with its "side-by-side" technology, which allows it to
> archive different versions of DLLs to work with different pieces of
> software. So it's conceivable that SAPI 5.0 could be installed on a
> WindowsXP machine, the user upgrades to 5.1, and they're both there.
> Somewhere.
>
> -Mark Wieder




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 23:48:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul  2 23:48:00 2003
Subject: More debuggerbears
In-Reply-To: <001901c34111$ed5b50e0$6501a8c0@ed>
Message-ID: <20030703044011.99823.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Edwin,

Can't you insert a breakpoint _after_ the call,  and
just 'Run' to there ? This doesn't mean the RunRev
guys shouldn't fix it, of course...

Jan Schekel.

--- Edwin Gore <xxx at yyy.zzz> wrote:
> Okay...
> 
> I've reported this to the bug-DB - it happens on my
> XP Home machine, at
> well, home.
> 
> This really does make the debugger just about
> useless.
> 
> Is no one else having this problem?
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Edwin Gore" <edgore at shinra.com>
> (sorry, I couldn't resist...)
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:24 PM
> Subject: More debuggerbears
> 
> 
> > I am finding that the function of the Step Over
> button is very unreliable
> (Windows 2K, RR 2.02).
> >
> > My understanding of it - and the way that it works
> sometimes - is that
> when I am clicking through a script using Step Over,
> that it should not dive
> down into functions and so on - I should stay in the
> main script.
> >
> > Now, since I have a couple of functions in the
> program I am debugging that
> do transformations on data based on iterating
> through a fairly large table
> of data once for each characters in a variable
> (which can be 20 or more
> characters in length), the debugger nearly useless
> if it decides, for
> whatever reason, to do a Step Into instead of a Step
> Over. I know this
> function works perfectly, I don't want to have to
> sit and watch it step
> through for 10 minutes before getting back to the
> script which called it -
> which I am VERY interested in debugging.
> >
> > Anyone else seeing this?
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >
>
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Jul  3 00:01:00 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu Jul  3 00:01:00 2003
Subject: OT Goings on behind the scene
In-Reply-To: <002501c34112$5b01fea0$6501a8c0@ed>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEMCCJAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Edwin,

Congratulations on being able to post w/out HTML;-) !

>
> (Banging shoe on table)
>
> We will bury you!!!!!!!!!
>
> (sorry - don't know what came over me....)

You haven't been channelling Steve Ballmer or practicing his Monkeyboy
Dance, have you?




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 00:19:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Jul  3 00:19:00 2003
Subject: hyperlinking from list fields
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHKEFJDEAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <20030703051132.3451.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Monte Goulding <xxx at yyy.zzz> wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> 
> I just noticed that something I assumed would work,
> doesn't. It seems you
> can't hyperlink from a list field. Is it a bug? I
> would have thought that
> the hyperlink behavior would override the list
> behavior???
> 
> I want to have a list field with columns (let's say
> name & email). I want to
> be able to select the line and or click on the email
> link and handle the
> linkClicked message. It seems that the linkClicked
> message isn't sent if the
> part of the line you click on is a link. I think it
> should be. What do
> others think????
> 
> I even tried scripting it with mouseUp and the chunk
> references like
> clickChunk and mouseChunk but they seem to refer to
> the line chars not the
> clicked word/group (which makes sense).
> 
> Regards
> 
> Monte
> 

Hi Monte,

Here's an idea that might do the trick :
- create another field "on top" of the column with the
email-addresses
- set its threeD, showBorder and opaque to false
- fill in the addresses, and set the textStyle to link
for each line
- you may have to tweak the margins of the field a bit
to have it overlay "just right"
- now we have to make sure they scroll alongside, so
add to the list field script
  on scrollbarDrag
    set the vScroll of fld "email-addresses" to \
        the vScroll of me
  end scrollbarDrag
- last but not least, to prevent visual problems,
we'll also need to adapt the colour scheme
 . start by setting the properties linkColor,
linkHiliteColor and linkVisitedColor of the stack to
blue or another you like, as long as it's the same and
works both for hilited and not-hilited lines
 . if you want to go the extra mile, you could change
the list field script again to update the textColor of
the individual email-address field lines 'on
selectionChanged' ; this means you'll also have to fix
'on mouseMove' and 'on rawKeyDown' so that they send a
selectionChanged directly, rather than afterwards
(mouseMove) or never (rawKeyDown)

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Jul  3 00:45:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Thu Jul  3 00:45:00 2003
Subject: default button on OS X
In-Reply-To: <200307030258.h632weiY010541@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <7E2C1BD7-AD18-11D7-B113-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le jeudi, 3 juil 2003, ? 04:58 Europe/Brussels, Howard Bornstein a 
?crit :

>> BUT
>> there is a square round the button and when I build my app this square
>> is black ! NOT GREAT
>
> If the square only appears when you click the button, check to see if 
> the
> Focus Border is set to true. If so, set it to false.
>
>

No it appears so, always

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From HyperChris at aol.com  Thu Jul  3 00:52:01 2003
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Thu Jul  3 00:52:01 2003
Subject: Table Grumps We Are
Message-ID: <1c3.c0e0907.2c351c91@aol.com>

>> Yes, I've seen it (if it's "Table Fun") and it's illuminating - I 
didn't mean to criticise it at all. 

Not that stack ... I put another one there that is my actual project. 
TableFun was just to test. This one is called TimeCard 
(http://www.christophercomputers.com/tc1.rev.sit)

I promise not to use the OSX version of AOL to respond to the list again. My 
gosh what a mess it makes !


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 00:56:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Jul  3 00:56:01 2003
Subject: default button on OS X
In-Reply-To: <7E2C1BD7-AD18-11D7-B113-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <20030703054836.96754.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Yves COPPE <xxx at yyy.zzz> wrote:
> 
> Le jeudi, 3 juil 2003, ? 04:58 Europe/Brussels,
> Howard Bornstein a 
> ?crit :
> 
> >> BUT
> >> there is a square round the button and when I
> build my app this square
> >> is black ! NOT GREAT
> >
> > If the square only appears when you click the
> button, check to see if 
> > the
> > Focus Border is set to true. If so, set it to
> false.
> >
> >
> 
> No it appears so, always
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> Yves COPPE
> 

Do you have a big graphic behind your button? Or is
the backgroundColor of the stack something other than
empty or "false" ?
Can you post a screendump somewhere ?

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Thu Jul  3 00:57:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu Jul  3 00:57:01 2003
Subject: hyperlinking from list fields
In-Reply-To: <20030703051132.3451.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEFODEAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>
> Here's an idea that might do the trick :
> - create another field "on top" of the column with the
> email-addresses
> - set its threeD, showBorder and opaque to false
> - fill in the addresses, and set the textStyle to link
> for each line
> - you may have to tweak the margins of the field a bit
> to have it overlay "just right"
> - now we have to make sure they scroll alongside, so
> add to the list field script
>   on scrollbarDrag
>     set the vScroll of fld "email-addresses" to \
>         the vScroll of me
>   end scrollbarDrag
> - last but not least, to prevent visual problems,
> we'll also need to adapt the colour scheme
>  . start by setting the properties linkColor,
> linkHiliteColor and linkVisitedColor of the stack to
> blue or another you like, as long as it's the same and
> works both for hilited and not-hilited lines
>  . if you want to go the extra mile, you could change
> the list field script again to update the textColor of
> the individual email-address field lines 'on
> selectionChanged' ; this means you'll also have to fix
> 'on mouseMove' and 'on rawKeyDown' so that they send a
> selectionChanged directly, rather than afterwards
> (mouseMove) or never (rawKeyDown)
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
Hi Jan

I guess that's an option but it seems a rather costly one for what should be
a simple situation. It may be better for me to use a checkbox list field for
line selection rather than the standard list field. I guess it would have
been a rather strange UI anyway.

Cheers

Monte




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Jul  3 01:05:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu Jul  3 01:05:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <200307022314.TAA25068@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2914EE.1ABE%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:05:48 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>

> To grab the game, type the following in your message box:
> 
> go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev"
----------
I get a Desktop answer list dialog with the question:

Where is url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev?"

Ken N.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Jul  3 01:15:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Jul  3 01:15:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <BB2914EE.1ABE%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BB29163A.D409%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Ken Norris wrote:

>> To grab the game, type the following in your message box:
>> 
>> go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev"
> ----------
> I get a Desktop answer list dialog with the question:
> 
> Where is url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev?"

Are you using Rev 2? (requires this version)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Jul  3 01:51:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu Jul  3 01:51:01 2003
Subject: More send in time
In-Reply-To: <200307011859.OAA12114@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB291FD7.1ABF%pixelbird@interisland.net>

> From: Cubist at aol.com
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:20:03 EDT
> Subject: Re: More send in time

> if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
> 
> set the vScroll of fld 1 to (1 + ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1343) mod 1345)
> 
> else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
> 
> set the vScroll of fld 1 to (1 + ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345) mod 1345)
> 
> end if
-----------
So what's wrong with this?:

on endlessScroller
   constant scrollSpeedInterval = 10
   if not the uAllowScroll of me then exit endlessScroller
     if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then

    set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1344) mod 1345
## Causes a negative 1, so it starts immediately and
## continues in that direction.

  else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then

    set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345) mod 1344
## Causes a positive 1 and continues in that direction

  end if
   send "endlessScroller" to me in scrollSpeedInterval milliseconds
end endlessScroller

...That thing works flawlessly in my setting.
-----------
> As long as this bit of code is *only* activated when the mouse is within
> one of your two "xxxScrollArea"s, it should work fine. Hmmm... try this on for
> size:
> 
> # in card script
> on ScrollControl
> if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
> ScrollDatPuppy (-2)
> else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
> ScrollDatPuppy (0)
> send "ScrollControl" to me in 10 milliseconds -- adjust to taste
> end ScrollControl
> 
> on ScrollDatPuppy Direx
> set the vScroll of fld 1 to (1 + ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345 + Direx)
> mod 1345)
> end ScrollDatPuppy
-----------
I tried this, but it scrolls just one pixel, then quits. I haven't figured
out why yet.

Ken N.





From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Jul  3 02:29:01 2003
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu Jul  3 02:29:01 2003
Subject: Speech synthesis on Windows
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKELOCJAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKELOCJAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <197117371100.20030703002115@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

Well, there was (is) at least a 5.0 SDK. MS says that 5.1 is
binary-compatible with 5.0. I assume that means that 5.1 is a bug-fix
release. There's no API call that I have found to get the SAPI version
info number. I dig around in C:\WINNT\Speech and get the version
information from vcmd.exe (4.0.4.3405 for my Win2k).

I suppose you could try IspTokenUI::IsUISupported() with a pszTypeOfUI
argument being the name of a token that's supported in version 5 but
not in version 4. The 5.1 SDK help file by itself (2.3MB) is available
at http://www.microsoft.com/speech/techinfo/apioverview/ to save you
from downloading the whole SDK.

-Mark

Wednesday, July 2, 2003, 9:37:44 PM, you wrote:

CW> I had read on MS website: www.microsoft.com/speech that SAPI 4 and SAPI 5.1
CW> can coexist (didn't even know there was a SAPI 5). Do you know how to
CW> identify which version(s) of SAPI are currently installed?




From jan.decroos at groepvanroey.be  Thu Jul  3 05:39:00 2003
From: jan.decroos at groepvanroey.be (Jan Decroos)
Date: Thu Jul  3 05:39:00 2003
Subject: External for Windows using MetroWerks CodeWarrior (MacOSX)
Message-ID: <fc.0073fc46000d8b6c0073fc46000d8b6c.d8b88@groepvanroey.be>

Hi,


I would like tot test some externals we made for MacOS X (Project Builder) on
Windows using MertroWerks CodeWarrior (Mac).
Can someone tell me how I can move the example External (in Project Builder
now) to CodeWarrior to make a DLL on Windows ?
(preference settings, header files needed, etc
)


Thanks !

Regards,
Jan



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul  3 09:29:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul  3 09:29:00 2003
Subject: More debuggerbears
References: <20030703044011.99823.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003001c3416e$6cc34390$6501a8c0@ed>

The problem is that it's a loop, and I need to beable to follow it through
multiple iterations - and there are *lots* of functions being called - most
of which are complex and boring to step through :(

I have been trying to debug it by setting up multiple breakpoints and using
"run" to jump over the functions, but it's a nightmare.

Does this mean that you have seen this too? I keep hoping that nobody else
has seen this, and someone will just say "Ed, you dummy, it works just fine,
you're doing "X" wrong - see, it works now!" :)

Thanks,

Edwin gore

 Jan Schekel.:

> Hi Edwin,
>
> Can't you insert a breakpoint _after_ the call,  and
> just 'Run' to there ? This doesn't mean the RunRev
> guys shouldn't fix it, of course...



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul  3 09:36:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul  3 09:36:00 2003
Subject: Externals problem - Windows Messages
In-Reply-To: <Law11-F1531Obiw57x90002a774@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <A7B419C0-AD62-11D7-8742-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 02:57 AM, Joeri Paeleman wrote:

> For the purposes of my current project, the most important feature 
> would be to simply double-click the icon and show my Revolution stack 
> (which was previously hidden). When initializing the icon, I can 
> specify some windows-messages to be sent to my mainStack. So I 
> specified WM_LBUTTONDBLCLK, hoping that Revolution would recognize the 
> message (as it should). Unfortionately, Revolution responds to this 
> message after a single mouseUp (and executes the stacks mouseUp 
> handler).
> For a moment I thought I could live with this (since I could show my 
> stack after a single click). However, this method only appears to 
> works in the IDE (or, as a standalone, when another stack is visible). 
> So if I build a distribution, launch it, hide my main stack (and all 
> others), and click the icon, nothing happens.
>
> Has anybody got any ideas on how to solve this?

It may be that Revolution does its own double-click processing and you 
need to send a more primitive message.

I wonder if it is possible to create a new thread with the external 
DLL.  You could put a simple message loop in that.  The problem would 
be, then, getting info back to the main thread--see below.
>
> When I get this running, I would obviously like to add a context-menu 
> to my icon. To implement that, it would be nice if there was a way to 
> send messages from the external to the revolution-project. Is there a 
> way to do this (eg using custom Windows-Messages to directly call a 
> Revolution custom-handler)?

I think there is a way to do a Revolution "send".  However, it might 
intended to be called from within an external call and there might be 
problems if this is called from a separate thread.  (If this has thread 
protection, it would be good if that was documented.)  If you set up a 
separate thread then you might need to do your usual multithreading 
shared-data protection and pass it to an external call that is assigned 
to run on idle.  Have the one on idle actually "send" the message.

I haven't built an external this year and my memory is fuzzy here.

Alternately... If you know you will have tcp/ip on the computer, you 
could run your taskbar helper as a separate program and it could send a 
simple datagram message.  Well, it doesn't have to be separate, but it 
may be.

I think Ken Ray has a taskbar utility that might help, too.

Dar Scott







From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul  3 10:32:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul  3 10:32:00 2003
Subject: script trouble on OS X
In-Reply-To: <A7B419C0-AD62-11D7-8742-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <75C39552-AD6A-11D7-A8CD-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi folks,

i have a little script that works very fine on win,
but always throws an error on OS X...

Can someone please help out?

I have a popup btn where one can delete the current cd
in a stack. One menu is "loeschen" (delete) and this handler

on loeschen
   answer "do you really want ..." with "Ja" or "Nein"
   if it is "Nein" then exit loeschen
    if the short name of this cd <> "menu" then delete this cd
    akt ## creates a new index
    save this stack ## well, does what it says...
end loeschen

i get this error on OS X

stack locked or object's script is executing

at "...delete this cd"

I can delete the card with the msg AND that SAME script works
fine on windows2000...

The stack was created on Windows and copied over to my mac.
Everything worked fine, of course, except this "delete" handler.

Any hints are very welcome :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul  3 10:54:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul  3 10:54:00 2003
Subject: script trouble on OS X
In-Reply-To: <75C39552-AD6A-11D7-A8CD-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <92A1A497-AD6D-11D7-A8CD-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi folks,

> Hi folks,
>
> i have a little script that works very fine on win,
> but always throws an error on OS X...
>
> Can someone please help out?
>
> I have a popup btn where one can delete the current cd
> in a stack. One menu is "loeschen" (delete) and this handler

important additional info:

The button is part of a bg and NOT part of the card that i try to 
delete.

> on loeschen
>   answer "do you really want ..." with "Ja" or "Nein"
>   if it is "Nein" then exit loeschen
>    if the short name of this cd <> "menu" then delete this cd
>    akt ## creates a new index
>    save this stack ## well, does what it says...
> end loeschen
>
> i get this error on OS X
>
> stack locked or object's script is executing
>
> at "...delete this cd"
>
> I can delete the card with the msg AND that SAME script works
> fine on windows2000...
>
> The stack was created on Windows and copied over to my mac.
> Everything worked fine, of course, except this "delete" handler.

Any hints are still very welcome :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From RGould8 at aol.com  Thu Jul  3 10:56:01 2003
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Thu Jul  3 10:56:01 2003
Subject: Rev to launch AppleScript to launch .app
Message-ID: <79.14c35bca.2c35aa4a@aol.com>

Can anyone tell me what I might be doing wrong here with my file-path that 
I'm passing to Applescript via Revolution, to launch an .app file that's 
contained within my Revolution /Contents/Resources/ directory?

tell application "Finder"
     open 
"/Users/administrator/Desktop/PPPoE_Connector.app/Contents/Resources/PPPSetup.app"
end tell

I've verified my paths, and the PPPSetup.app file is definetely there.   
Anyone know if Applescript's "start of the path" is really at the "Users" level - 
- - that's the only thing I can think of that might be wrong.   Any 
suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul  3 11:34:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul  3 11:34:00 2003
Subject: script trouble on OS X
In-Reply-To: <92A1A497-AD6D-11D7-A8CD-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <2175A0AA-AD73-11D7-A8CD-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Klaus,

>> Hi folks,
>>
>> i have a little script that works very fine on win,
>> but always throws an error on OS X...
>> Can someone please help out?
>> I have a popup btn where one can delete the current cd
>> in a stack. One menu is "loeschen" (delete) and this handler
>
> important additional info:
>
> The button is part of a bg and NOT part of the card that i try to 
> delete.
>
>> on loeschen
>>   answer "do you really want ..." with "Ja" or "Nein"
>>   if it is "Nein" then exit loeschen
>>    if the short name of this cd <> "menu" then delete this cd
>>    akt ## creates a new index
>>    save this stack ## well, does what it says...
>> end loeschen
>>
>> i get this error on OS X
>>
>> stack locked or object's script is executing
>>
>> at "...delete this cd"
>>
>> I can delete the card with the msg AND that SAME script works
>> fine on windows2000...
>>
>> The stack was created on Windows and copied over to my mac.
>> Everything worked fine, of course, except this "delete" handler.

This is a mistrey indeed.

> Any hints are still very welcome :-)

i can offer no hint but a working workaround ;-)

...
  put the num of this cd into dn
   if the short name of this cd <> "menu" then send loesch to me in 1 ##
end loeschen

on loesch
   delete this card
   akt
   save this stack
end loesch

Works fine on X and win.

But don't know why the first scripts works on win and not on X!???

> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de

Hope that helps ;-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From valetia at mac.com  Thu Jul  3 11:55:00 2003
From: valetia at mac.com (valetia at mac.com)
Date: Thu Jul  3 11:55:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <BB28C16C.7BE7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB2A9B2D.2E27A%valetia@mac.com>

Very cool! Well done Scott.

I especially like the sliding text effect. :-)

Played a couple of games and looks good so far.

Valetia



On 3/7/03 10:05 AM, "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> Greetings List:
> 
> I've recently been working on a small game called KodeKraker, a variation of
> the classic logic game Mastermind.  I'd like to invite folks with a few
> spare moments (!) to take it for a test run.
> 
> What started out as a programming exercise turned into a fairly involved
> little project.  The game features audio feedback, a custom UI (typical
> Tactile Media eye candy), and a fun little custom dialog system (note: no
> Flash was used in the making of this game).
> 
> To grab the game, type the following in your message box:
> 
>  go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev"
> 
> The stack runs 285K (folks with slower connections please be patient).
> 
> Thanks for reporting any problems or otherwise.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jiml at netrin.com  Thu Jul  3 12:34:01 2003
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Thu Jul  3 12:34:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <200307031602.MAA10514@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBICMMKLOIPMPOLALAGEAFFDAA.jiml@netrin.com>

fun. works well. looks great.

suggestion: i forgot the meaning of the black/white verifiers and needed a
way see the rules again.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 6/18/03



From franklin.bacheller at usu.edu  Thu Jul  3 12:38:00 2003
From: franklin.bacheller at usu.edu (Franklin Bacheller)
Date: Thu Jul  3 12:38:00 2003
Subject: Rev to launch AppleScript to launch .app
In-Reply-To: <79.14c35bca.2c35aa4a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <02BEB644-AD7C-11D7-B28C-000A957A09CC@usu.edu>

I have found that I need to include the name of the disk in the path:

		set the movietoview to "Macintosh  
HD:Users:frank:AppleScriptProjs:getYou:spaceCar4.mov"

The above will load a movie into an AppleScript Studio project.

Hope this helps.

On Thursday, Jul 3, 2003, at 09:48 US/Mountain, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> Can anyone tell me what I might be doing wrong here with my file-path  
> that I'm passing to Applescript via Revolution, to launch an .app file  
> that's contained within my Revolution /Contents/Resources/ directory?
>
> tell application "Finder"
> ???? open  
> "/Users/administrator/Desktop/PPPoE_Connector.app/Contents/Resources/ 
> PPPSetup.app"
> end tell
>
> I've verified my paths, and the PPPSetup.app file is definetely  
> there.? Anyone know if Applescript's "start of the path" is really at  
> the "Users" level - - - that's the only thing I can think of that  
> might be wrong.? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>
>
Franklin I. Bacheller, Ph.D.
Associate Professor

Intensive English Language Institute
Utah State University
0715 Old Main Hill
Logan, UT 84322-0715

Phone: 435-797-1281
Fax:      435-797-4050
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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Jul  3 12:41:00 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Jul  3 12:41:00 2003
Subject: Rev to launch AppleScript to launch .app
In-Reply-To: <79.14c35bca.2c35aa4a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BB29D377.12A2%kray@sonsothunder.com>

You need to do two things:

1) Convert the path to ":" delimited
2) Provide the full path

That should work...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


> From:     RGould8 at aol.com
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:48:26 EDT
> To:     use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Rev to launch AppleScript to launch .app
> 
> Can anyone tell me what I might be doing wrong here with my file-path that
> I'm passing to Applescript via Revolution, to launch an .app file that's
> contained within my Revolution /Contents/Resources/ directory?
> 
> tell application "Finder"
>    open 
> "/Users/administrator/Desktop/PPPoE_Connector.app/Contents/Resources/PPPSetup.
> app"
> end tell
> 
> I've verified my paths, and the PPPSetup.app file is definetely there.
> Anyone know if Applescript's "start of the path" is really at the "Users"
> level - 
> - - that's the only thing I can think of that might be wrong.   Any
> suggestions are greatly appreciated.
> 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Jul  3 12:46:01 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Jul  3 12:46:01 2003
Subject: script trouble on OS X
In-Reply-To: <2175A0AA-AD73-11D7-A8CD-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BB29D488.12A3%kray@sonsothunder.com>

Klaus,

Is the background ON the card you're trying to delete? If so, that might
affect the script.

My suggestion is to use "send" to delete the card (I do this all the time):

on mouseUp
  send "delete this card" to me in 10 milliseconds
end mouseUp


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


> From:     Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:26:42 +0200
> To:     use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: script trouble on OS X
> 
> Hi Klaus,
> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> i have a little script that works very fine on win,
>>> but always throws an error on OS X...
>>> Can someone please help out?
>>> I have a popup btn where one can delete the current cd
>>> in a stack. One menu is "loeschen" (delete) and this handler
>> 
>> important additional info:
>> 
>> The button is part of a bg and NOT part of the card that i try to
>> delete.
>> 
>>> on loeschen
>>>   answer "do you really want ..." with "Ja" or "Nein"
>>>   if it is "Nein" then exit loeschen
>>>    if the short name of this cd <> "menu" then delete this cd
>>>    akt ## creates a new index
>>>    save this stack ## well, does what it says...
>>> end loeschen
>>> 
>>> i get this error on OS X
>>> 
>>> stack locked or object's script is executing
>>> 
>>> at "...delete this cd"
>>> 
>>> I can delete the card with the msg AND that SAME script works
>>> fine on windows2000...
>>> 
>>> The stack was created on Windows and copied over to my mac.
>>> Everything worked fine, of course, except this "delete" handler.
> 
> This is a mistrey indeed.
> 
>> Any hints are still very welcome :-)
> 
> i can offer no hint but a working workaround ;-)
> 
> ...
> put the num of this cd into dn
>  if the short name of this cd <> "menu" then send loesch to me in 1 ##
> end loeschen
> 
> on loesch
>  delete this card
>  akt
>  save this stack
> end loesch
> 
> Works fine on X and win.
> 
> But don't know why the first scripts works on win and not on X!???
> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Klaus Major
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> www.major-k.de
> 
> Hope that helps ;-)
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From bornstein at designeq.com  Thu Jul  3 12:48:01 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Thu Jul  3 12:48:01 2003
Subject: More debuggerbears
Message-ID: <200307031740.h63HeVs5015912@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>

>I have been trying to debug it by setting up multiple breakpoints and using
>"run" to jump over the functions, but it's a nightmare.
>
>Does this mean that you have seen this too? 

I agree with you that the current debugger is a nightmare. It is barely 
functional for me. I had to switch my project back to Rev 1.1.1 to use 
its debugger to finish a project last week.

I hope the Rev team puts fixing this as their highest priority!

Regards,

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul  3 12:58:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul  3 12:58:00 2003
Subject: script trouble on OS X
In-Reply-To: <BB29D488.12A3%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <D20A3E49-AD7E-11D7-A8CD-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Ken

> Klaus,
>
> Is the background ON the card you're trying to delete? If so, that 
> might
> affect the script.

See below...

> My suggestion is to use "send" to delete the card (I do this all the 
> time):
> ...

> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

Thanks, Klaus also provided this workaround, which i use now ;-)

But why the heck does it work on windows without complaining?

Puzzled :-)

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul  3 12:58:15 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul  3 12:58:15 2003
Subject: More debuggerbears
Message-ID: <200307031750.h63Honv41974@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

I think I'm going to give dropping back to 1.1.1 for debugging a try as well...not sure what will happen, since I know I have some 2.0 exclusive stuff in there...just not sure if it will step on it or not.


>
>>I have been trying to debug it by setting up
>multiple breakpoints and using
>>"run" to jump over the functions, but it's a
>nightmare.
>>
>>Does this mean that you have seen this too? 
>
>I agree with you that the current debugger is a
>nightmare. It is barely 
>functional for me. I had to switch my project back
>to Rev 1.1.1 to use 
>its debugger to finish a project last week.
>
>I hope the Rev team puts fixing this as their
>highest priority!
>
>Regards,
>
>Howard Bornstein


From Cubist at aol.com  Thu Jul  3 13:00:01 2003
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Thu Jul  3 13:00:01 2003
Subject: More send in time
Message-ID: <14a.21310842.2c35c751@aol.com>

sez pixelbird at interisland.net
> sez cubist at aol.com:
>> if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
>> set the vScroll of fld 1 to (1 + ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1343) mod 1345)
>> else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
>> set the vScroll of fld 1 to (1 + ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345) mod 1345)
>> end if
>-----------
>So what's wrong with this?:
>on endlessScroller
>   constant scrollSpeedInterval = 10
>   if not the uAllowScroll of me then exit endlessScroller
>     if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
>    set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1344) mod 1345
>## Causes a negative 1, so it starts immediately and
>## continues in that direction.
>  else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
>    set the vScroll of fld 1 to ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345) mod 1344
>## Causes a positive 1 and continues in that direction
>  end if
>   send "endlessScroller" to me in scrollSpeedInterval milliseconds
>end endlessScroller
>...That thing works flawlessly in my setting.
   I don't see anything wrong with it, issues of style or personal preference 
aside.

>-----------
>
>> As long as this bit of code is *only* activated when the mouse is within
>
>> one of your two "xxxScrollArea"s, it should work fine. Hmmm... try this on 
for
>> size:
>> # in card script
>> on ScrollControl
>> if within(graphic "upScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
>> ScrollDatPuppy (-2)
>> else if within(graphic "downScrollArea", mouseLoc()) then
>> ScrollDatPuppy (0)
>> send "ScrollControl" to me in 10 milliseconds -- adjust to taste
>> end ScrollControl
>> 
>> on ScrollDatPuppy Direx
>> set the vScroll of fld 1 to (1 + ((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345 + Direx 
mod 1345)
>> end ScrollDatPuppy
>-----------
>I tried this, but it scrolls just one pixel, then quits. I haven't figured
>out why yet.
   Hm. This is odd. Once you've triggered ScrollControl *at all*, the "send 
in 10 ms" line *should re-trigger itself forever and ever, Amen... Perhaps add 
another set of parentheses to ScrollDatPuppy? I.e.,
  set the vScroll of fld 1 to (1 + (((the vScroll of fld 1) + 1345 + Direx) 
mod 1345)


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Jul  3 13:00:10 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Jul  3 13:00:10 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <BB2A9B2D.2E27A%valetia@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BB29BB84.7C15%scott@tactilemedia.com>

> To grab the game, type the following in your message box:
> 
>  go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev"

Thanks for the suggestions and feedback guys.  Really great to hear from
you.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul  3 13:23:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul  3 13:23:01 2003
Subject: quoting all names, the mystery (was Re: [ANN] News Reader Stack Available)
In-Reply-To: <676EF98C-A21D-11D7-93A8-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <45E78B3E-AD82-11D7-8505-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, June 19, 2003, at 12:15  AM, Dar Scott wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 11:08 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>> I'm with Jacqueline. I always thought it took the interpreter longer 
>> to
>> figure out what it's looking at.

_HyperTalk 2.2 The Book_

Says on p. 45. "Enclosing literals in quotation marks can result in 
considerable time savings-- up to 20% for loops with several hundred or 
thousand repetitions."

> A quick test on OS X seems to indicate that is not the case:
>
> on mouseUp
>   local x
>   set the numberFormat to "0.000000"
>   put empty into field "Report"
>   put the long seconds into tEnd  -- throw this one away
>   put the long seconds into tStart
>   put the long seconds into tEnd
>   put tEnd-tStart into tCorrection
>   put the long seconds into tStart
>   put the highlight of button "dummy" into x
>   put the long seconds into tEnd
>   put (tEnd - tStart - tCorrection) & " s quoted" & LF after field 
> "Report"
>   put the long seconds into tStart
>   put the highlight of button dummy into x
>   put the long seconds into tEnd
>   put (tEnd - tStart - tCorrection) & " s unquoted" & LF after field 
> "Report"
> end mouseUp

In this test you are accessing a UI object. I suspect that access is 
going to skew things. We know accessing fields is much slower than 
accessing variables... maybe the same with for buttons?

But I ran my own test and can't discern any noticeable difference. 
Sometimes quoted literals is faster, sometimes unquoted literals is 
faster. The Hypertalk Book is so clear about this. Maybe we are not 
writing correct benchmarks?

on mouseup
   set the cursor to clock
   set the numberFormat to "0.000000"
   put pi into tArr["valOfPI"]
   put empty into tStart
   put empty into tEnd
   --
   -- with quoted literal
   --
   put the long seconds into tStart
   repeat for 1000000
     get tArr["valOfPI"]
   end repeat
   put the long seconds into tEnd
   put tEnd-tStart into tCorrection1
   put "with quoted literal"&& tab & tCorrection1 & \
       linefeed after fld "Report"
   --
   -- without quoted literal
   --
   put the long seconds into tStart
   repeat for 1000000
     get tArr[valOfPI]
   end repeat
   put the long seconds into tEnd
   put tEnd-tStart into tCorrection2
   put "without quoted literal"&& tab & tCorrection2 & \
       linefeed after fld "Report"
   --
   -- difference
   --
   put (tCorrection1 / tCorrection2) * 100 & \
       "%" & linefeed after fld "Report"
end mouseup


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul  3 14:25:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul  3 14:25:00 2003
Subject: quoting all names, the mystery (was Re: [ANN] News Reader Stack Available)
In-Reply-To: <45E78B3E-AD82-11D7-8505-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <060E49C6-AD8B-11D7-8742-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 12:15 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> _HyperTalk 2.2 The Book_
>
> Says on p. 45. "Enclosing literals in quotation marks can result in 
> considerable time savings-- up to 20% for loops with several hundred 
> or thousand repetitions."

I think this means "--up to 20% which can be significant for loops with 
several hundred or thousand repetitions."  The loops shouldn't affect 
the percentage.

> In this test you are accessing a UI object. I suspect that access is 
> going to skew things. We know accessing fields is much slower than 
> accessing variables... maybe the same with for buttons?

Uh.  I thought the question was related to UI objects.

>
> But I ran my own test and can't discern any noticeable difference. 
> Sometimes quoted literals is faster, sometimes unquoted literals is 
> faster. The Hypertalk Book is so clear about this. Maybe we are not 
> writing correct benchmarks?

OK.

I trimmed mine down to minimal without a loop.


on mouseUp
   set the numberFormat to "0.000000"
   put empty into field "Report"
   put the long seconds into tEnd  -- throw this one away

   -- measure ambient time ;-)
   put the long seconds into tStart
	-- measure nothing
   put the long seconds into tEnd
   put tEnd-tStart into tCorrection

   -- measure minimal quoted
   put the long seconds into tStart
   get "dummy"
   put the long seconds into tEnd
   put ((tEnd - tStart) - tCorrection) & " s " & it & " quoted" & LF 
after field "Report"

   -- measure minimal unquoted
   put the long seconds into tStart
   get dummy
   put the long seconds into tEnd
   put ((tEnd - tStart) - tCorrection) & " s " & it & " unquoted" & LF 
after field "Report"
end mouseUp


The tCorrection simply is the time it takes to put the long seconds 
into a variable which I need to subtract from my measurement.  The 
first long seconds is thrown away because it sometimes takes longer 
than the others.

My typical results are like this:

0.000005 s dummy quoted
0.000014 s dummy unquoted

There is a consistent approximately 10-microsecond difference and about 
a 1 to 3 ratio in time.

Here is where I see a mystery--
Suppose I insert this line at the start of the the minimal unquoted 
test:
   if 0 = 1 then put "cow" into dummy
The report at the end shows that 'get dummy' got empty.  If I put that 
at the end, then 'get dummy' got "dummy".
The method used seems to depend on whether a variable was created by 
that line in compiling.  If that is the case, why aren't the times the 
same?  I suspect there might be some decisions that have to wait until 
execution time related to this but don't come into play in this case.

Dar Scott



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jul  3 14:53:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu Jul  3 14:53:00 2003
Subject: quoting all names, the mystery (was Re: [ANN] News Reader Stack
 Available)
In-Reply-To: <45E78B3E-AD82-11D7-8505-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <45E78B3E-AD82-11D7-8505-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <3F0487F2.7020308@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/3/03 1:15 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> But I ran my own test and can't discern any noticeable difference. 
> Sometimes quoted literals is faster, sometimes unquoted literals is 
> faster. The Hypertalk Book is so clear about this. Maybe we are not 
> writing correct benchmarks?
> 

Okay, I got curious. I revised Dar's original script, which contained no 
repeats, to include a long repeat loop:

on mouseUp
   local x
   set the numberFormat to "0.000000"
   put empty into field "Report"
   put the long seconds into tEnd  -- throw this one away
   put the long seconds into tStart
   put the long seconds into tEnd
   put tEnd-tStart into tCorrection
   put the long seconds into tStart
   repeat 100000
     put the highlight of button "dummy" into x
   end repeat
   put the long seconds into tEnd
   put (tEnd - tStart - tCorrection) & " s quoted" & LF after field "Report"
   put the long seconds into tStart
   repeat 100000
     put the highlight of button dummy into x
   end repeat
   put the long seconds into tEnd
   put (tEnd - tStart - tCorrection) & " s unquoted" & LF after field 
"Report"
end mouseUp

I get consistent results -- quoted names are faster. A representative 
time value on my Mac G4 is:

1.086114 s quoted
1.335501 s unquoted

Granted, that's a lot of repeats and for single-event access it isn't 
going to make any difference. For long repeat loops though, it could.


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul  3 14:56:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul  3 14:56:01 2003
Subject: quoting all names, the mystery (was Re: [ANN] News Reader Stack Available)
In-Reply-To: <060E49C6-AD8B-11D7-8742-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4DC64F8A-AD8F-11D7-8505-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 01:17  PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 12:15 PM, Alex Rice wrote:
>
>> _HyperTalk 2.2 The Book_
>>
>> Says on p. 45. "Enclosing literals in quotation marks can result in 
>> considerable time savings-- up to 20% for loops with several hundred 
>> or thousand repetitions."
>
> I think this means "--up to 20% which can be significant for loops 
> with several hundred or thousand repetitions."  The loops shouldn't 
> affect the percentage.

A loop will amplify the difference which is why I stuck it into a long 
loop.

>> In this test you are accessing a UI object. I suspect that access is 
>> going to skew things. We know accessing fields is much slower than 
>> accessing variables... maybe the same with for buttons?
>
> Uh.  I thought the question was related to UI objects.

Maybe, but I think the issue is relating the engine parsing ambiguous 
words. Here is the context of that quote

Chapter- Style Memory and Performance
Section- Use Quoted Literals Instead of Unquoted Literals

	When HyperTalk comes across an ambiguous word-- one that might be a 
literal, function call, variable, or whatever-- it must check all the 
possibilities to discover what the word really is. The first 
possibility that HyperTalk considers is that the word is a quoted 
literal; the last thing it considers is that the word is an unquoted 
literal. Enclosing literals in quotation marks can result in 
considerable time savings-- up to 20% for loops with several hundred or 
thousand repetitions.

> Here is where I see a mystery--
> Suppose I insert this line at the start of the the minimal unquoted 
> test:
>   if 0 = 1 then put "cow" into dummy
> The report at the end shows that 'get dummy' got empty.  If I put that 
> at the end, then 'get dummy' got "dummy".

So this line
if 0 = 1 then put "cow" into dummy
although it is never executed, the compiler creates a local variable 
named dummy?

> The method used seems to depend on whether a variable was created by 
> that line in compiling.  If that is the case, why aren't the times the 
> same?

I agree that's what it looks like.

> I suspect there might be some decisions that have to wait until 
> execution time related to this but don't come into play in this case.

Hmm... this is getting mind bending now :-) I hope Scott or Tuviah will 
set us straight.



Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From paeleman at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 14:59:01 2003
From: paeleman at hotmail.com (Joeri Paeleman)
Date: Thu Jul  3 14:59:01 2003
Subject: Externals problem - Windows Messages 
Message-ID: <Law11-F602cz4GXh6xH00041c55@hotmail.com>

Finally got it running.

As it turns out, there are some commands to communicate with Revolution in 
XCmdGlue (which comes with the external framework).
So all the messages that are sent by the Taskbar-icon are now handled by an 
invisible window (created in the DLL), and passed to revolution with 
SendCardMessage().

All of this C++ has really reminded me why I like Revolution so much 
(although a bit of documentation on externals might have helped a bit :-).



Joeri

_________________________________________________________________




From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul  3 15:22:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul  3 15:22:00 2003
Subject: quoting all names, the mystery (was Re: [ANN] News Reader Stack Available)
In-Reply-To: <3F0487F2.7020308@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <FCC334C6-AD92-11D7-8742-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 01:45 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Okay, I got curious. I revised Dar's original script, which contained 
> no repeats, to include a long repeat loop:

I think this can be improved by putting an empty loop in the correction 
timing.  That should get rid of the loop overhead and you would see a 
greater difference.

If one's computer cannot do the short time measurement, the loop is the 
best way to go.

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul  3 15:27:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul  3 15:27:00 2003
Subject: quoting all names, the mystery (was Re: [ANN] News Reader Stack Available)
In-Reply-To: <4DC64F8A-AD8F-11D7-8505-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <99609228-AD93-11D7-8742-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 01:48 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>> Here is where I see a mystery--
>> Suppose I insert this line at the start of the the minimal unquoted 
>> test:
>>   if 0 = 1 then put "cow" into dummy
>> The report at the end shows that 'get dummy' got empty.  If I put 
>> that at the end, then 'get dummy' got "dummy".
>
> So this line
> if 0 = 1 then put "cow" into dummy
> although it is never executed, the compiler creates a local variable 
> named dummy?

That seems to be the case.  At least as far as the use as a literal in 
subsequent lines.

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul  3 15:31:02 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul  3 15:31:02 2003
Subject: Externals problem - Windows Messages 
In-Reply-To: <Law11-F602cz4GXh6xH00041c55@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D993288-AD94-11D7-8742-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 01:51 PM, Joeri Paeleman wrote:

> So all the messages that are sent by the Taskbar-icon are now handled 
> by an invisible window (created in the DLL), and passed to revolution 
> with SendCardMessage().

I'm interested in how you did this.  Does the invisible window have its 
own thread for messages or does it use the primary application thread?

Dar Scott



From curry at pair.com  Thu Jul  3 15:54:00 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Thu Jul  3 15:54:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <200307031854.OAA17965@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307031854.OAA17965@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb2a458461d8@[68.86.37.15]>

The intro text effects are especially nice, and everything looks 
good! My suggestion would be a way to choose color directly from a 
pop-up list or some other arrangement rather than repetitively 
clicking.

Curry


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul  3 16:03:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul  3 16:03:01 2003
Subject: clipboardData & PNG & JPG
In-Reply-To: <200307022053.h62KrJ984051@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <BC2C89F4-AD98-11D7-A38F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 05:53  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

>  Does the mac still have the scrapbook? I couldn't find it last time I 
> was playing with one...if not too bad, that's the one thing that I 
> really ever missed on windows.
>
There are some 3rd party utils for Mac OS X:

CopyPaste
iClip


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Jul  3 16:49:00 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Jul  3 16:49:00 2003
Subject: script trouble on OS X
In-Reply-To: <D20A3E49-AD7E-11D7-A8CD-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BB2A0D87.12F1%kray@sonsothunder.com>

> Thanks, Klaus also provided this workaround, which i use now ;-)
> 
> But why the heck does it work on windows without complaining?

I would bet it has something to do with the way memory is managed on Windows
vs. Mac. But Scott/Tuviah would need to answer for sure...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Jul  3 17:42:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Jul  3 17:42:00 2003
Subject: Hacker Contest
Message-ID: <BB29FD7F.7C71%scott@tactilemedia.com>

This may be a hoax or Internet propaganda, but just in case, you might want
to take the precaution of backing up any Web-stored material (sites, files,
etc).

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/internet/07/03/hacker.warnings.ap/index.html

Once of my ISPs recently sent out an advisory recommending the backing up of
all Web site files and data.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From Robin.Harrington at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Jul  3 20:30:00 2003
From: Robin.Harrington at canterbury.ac.nz (Robin Harrington)
Date: Thu Jul  3 20:30:00 2003
Subject: Simple socket example
Message-ID: <FCF40EEA-ADBD-11D7-B626-003065A2220E@canterbury.ac.nz>

Hi,

I'm having trouble establishing whether Revolution will meet my needs 
and need a simple example of a telnet socket as I cannot get it to work 
(following the documentation).

Thanks
Robin



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Thu Jul  3 20:41:00 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Thu Jul  3 20:41:00 2003
Subject: Simple socket example
Message-ID: <200307040133.VAA15937@bright.unitz.ca>

a sample of RunRev sockets or of telnet?

if you scroll _way_ down to the bottom of the contribution
list you'll find a simple client/server that shows you how
to use sockets..

----- Original Message Follows -----
> I'm having trouble establishing whether Revolution will
> meet my needs  and need a simple example of a telnet
> socket as I cannot get it to work  (following the
> documentation).


From squance at elkvalley.net  Thu Jul  3 21:53:00 2003
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Thu Jul  3 21:53:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <BB28C16C.7BE7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <l03130304bb2a9a7d11df@[192.168.1.101]>

>Thanks for reporting any problems or otherwise.
>


Very nice.  I'd second the comment about allowing for short memories, and
can the white be whiter than white?  It took me a couple of rounds before I
realized I had a white.




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Jul  3 22:54:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Jul  3 22:54:01 2003
Subject: default button on OS X
In-Reply-To: <1030703064642.3f0344b2.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.53869@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <FF15DE02-ADCE-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

This happened to me when I had a tabbed button which I had extended (to 
give the striped background). As long as the default button was on top 
of the tabbed button, I got this black border. When I shrunk the tabbed 
button away, it went back to normal.

Sarah

On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 06:46  am, Yves COPPE wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I make a push btn and look at the inspector "Basic prop"
>
> When I use a btn and ask "default btn" on OS X
> this btn flashes a little to invite the user for clicking : GREAT
>
> BUT
> there is a square round the button and when I build my app this square 
> is black ! NOT GREAT
>
> I've tried  with the check btn of the palette "inspector" to make the 
> quare disappear without success.
> `
> Has anyone a idea ?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Greetings.
> Yves COPPE
>
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Jul  3 23:54:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu Jul  3 23:54:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <200307031601.MAA10481@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2A55B8.1AEA%pixelbird@interisland.net>

> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:07:38 -0700
> Subject: Re: [ANN] Game Available for Test
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>

>>> To grab the game, type the following in your message box:
>>> 
>>> go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev"
>> ----------
>> I get a Desktop answer list dialog with the question:
>> 
>> Where is url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev?"
> 
> Are you using Rev 2? (requires this version)
----------
Yep. On a G4 Mac running OS 9.2.1

Ken N.



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Jul  4 00:02:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri Jul  4 00:02:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <200307031601.MAA10481@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2A57C5.1AEB%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi again,

> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:07:38 -0700
> Subject: Re: [ANN] Game Available for Test
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
>  
>>> To grab the game, type the following in your message box:
>>> 
>>> go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev"
>> ----------
>> I get a Desktop answer list dialog with the question:
>> 
>> Where is url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev?"
> 
> Are you using Rev 2? (requires this version)
------------
I tried the site straight from Netscape and all I get is a very long list of
gobbledy-gook, looks like uncompiled code in HTML or something.

Too bad, too. I'm dying to check it out. I want to write some eduware games
in RR, but haven't had the guts to take a stab at it.

Ken N.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Jul  4 00:15:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri Jul  4 00:15:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <BB2A57C5.1AEB%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BB2A599D.D46C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Ken Norris wrote:

>>>> To grab the game, type the following in your message box:
>>>> 
>>>> go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev"
>>> ----------
>>> I get a Desktop answer list dialog with the question:
>>> 
>>> Where is url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev?"
>> 
>> Are you using Rev 2? (requires this version)
> ------------
> I tried the site straight from Netscape and all I get is a very long list of
> gobbledy-gook, looks like uncompiled code in HTML or something.
> 
> Too bad, too. I'm dying to check it out. I want to write some eduware games
> in RR, but haven't had the guts to take a stab at it.

Seems that a number of folks didn't realize there's no Web browser involved
in getting the game.  Open the message box in your Rev app and type in the
above command:

go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev"

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Jul  4 00:25:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri Jul  4 00:25:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <BB2A57C5.1AEB%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BB2A57C5.1AEB%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <3F050E0F.5000700@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/3/03 8:59 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> I tried the site straight from Netscape and all I get is a very long list of
> gobbledy-gook, looks like uncompiled code in HTML or something.

This happens when the browser isn't set up to recognize a particular 
file type, so it tries to display the file in a window as text. Scott's 
game doesn't need a browser. Paste the command into Rev's message box. 
Rev will fetch the stack directly and display it. Be sure you are online 
when you do it.

> Too bad, too. I'm dying to check it out. I want to write some eduware games
> in RR, but haven't had the guts to take a stab at it.

Like everything Scott writes, this one is very cool. He really creates 
gorgeous stuff. You won't be able to explore it though; it is password 
protected and the scripts are locked.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Fri Jul  4 01:01:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Fri Jul  4 01:01:00 2003
Subject: default button on OS X
In-Reply-To: <FF15DE02-ADCE-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <C44AEA04-ADE3-11D7-8AD6-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Hello Sarah


Le vendredi, 4 juil 2003, ? 05:24 Europe/Brussels, Sarah a ?crit :

> This happened to me when I had a tabbed button which I had extended 
> (to give the striped background). As long as the default button was on 
> top of the tabbed button, I got this black border. When I shrunk the 
> tabbed button away, it went back to normal.
>
> Sarah
>
>

It's just what I did, there is a tabbed btn behind for the same purpose 
(striped bf)
but I don't understand the solutino ??(sorry ? my English is bad)

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From Cubist at aol.com  Fri Jul  4 01:36:00 2003
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Fri Jul  4 01:36:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test -- problem!
Message-ID: <197.1cc74453.2c36789c@aol.com>

   Okay... I open up REV. I type [ go stack url 
"http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev" ] into the message box. Something downloads; I see 
KODEKRAKER on my screen, and I hear that funky technoid soundtrack.
   So far, so good.
   I click on "Kontinue"... and nothing happens. Message watcher confirms no 
messages are triggered when I click on "Kontinue".
   I click on "Play", and it's the same story -- no messges, no discernable 
response whatsoever. Game? What game?

   I'm running MacOS 8.6 on a PowerBook 3400c/200, with 144 MB of RAM.
   REV version is 2.0.1, and I've got 40MB of memory allocated to it.
   Online connection is 56K modem, using AOL 4.0 for Mac.
   What am I doing wrong?


From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Fri Jul  4 01:38:01 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Fri Jul  4 01:38:01 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <200307021336.JAA07688@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2AEBAC.1F63%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

Is there an equivalent to the following Supercard statement?

   functionName([paramList]) via object

I tried the "value()", "send", "call", "do" expressions in RR but do not get
the intended results.

Joel



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Jul  4 01:44:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri Jul  4 01:44:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test -- problem!
In-Reply-To: <197.1cc74453.2c36789c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BB2A6E7F.D476%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Cubist at aol.com wrote:

> Okay... I open up REV. I type [ go stack url
> "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev" ] into the message
> box. Something downloads; I see
> KODEKRAKER on my screen, and I hear that funky technoid soundtrack.
> So far, so good.
> I click on "Kontinue"... and nothing happens. Message watcher confirms no
> messages are triggered when I click on "Kontinue".
> I click on "Play", and it's the same story -- no messges, no discernable
> response whatsoever. Game? What game?
> 
> I'm running MacOS 8.6 on a PowerBook 3400c/200, with 144 MB of RAM.
> REV version is 2.0.1, and I've got 40MB of memory allocated to it.
> Online connection is 56K modem, using AOL 4.0 for Mac.
> What am I doing wrong?

By any chance do you have the pointer tool selected?  This might interrupt
the scripts from running.  Double check that you have the browse tool
selected before downloading.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Jul  4 02:02:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri Jul  4 02:02:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <3F050E0F.5000700@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BB2A72C9.D478%scott@tactilemedia.com>

>> Too bad, too. I'm dying to check it out. I want to write some eduware games
>> in RR, but haven't had the guts to take a stab at it.
> 
> it is password protected and the scripts are locked.

Look again. :-)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul  4 02:37:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul  4 02:37:01 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <BB2AEBAC.1F63%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <BB2A7AD5.301B9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jo?l Guillod wrote:

> Is there an equivalent to the following Supercard statement?
> 
> functionName([paramList]) via object
> 
> I tried the "value()", "send", "call", "do" expressions in RR but do not get
> the intended results.

The "value" function has an optional object param which lets it behave like
SuperCard's "via", if memory serves about how "via" works.

Have you used that param?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Fri Jul  4 02:39:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Fri Jul  4 02:39:00 2003
Subject: default button on OS X
In-Reply-To: <1030704164029.3f05215d.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.57549@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <67AA5A5C-ADEF-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Sorry for not explaining myself clearly :-)
You will have to make the tabbed button shorter, so that the default 
button is not on top of it's striped background. Adjust the height of 
the tabbed button so that it is only just big enough to show the tabs 
and the blue line underneath (about 30 pixels works well for me).

If you want the striped background, the stripes are now available in 
the Image Library (Standard images - bottom row) and you can set the 
stack or card background to this.

Cheers,
Sarah

On Friday, July 4, 2003, at 04:40  pm, Yves COPPE wrote:

> Hello Sarah
>
>
> Le vendredi, 4 juil 2003, ? 05:24 Europe/Brussels, Sarah a ?crit :
>
>> This happened to me when I had a tabbed button which I had extended 
>> (to give the striped background). As long as the default button was 
>> on top of the tabbed button, I got this black border. When I shrunk 
>> the tabbed button away, it went back to normal.
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>>
>
> It's just what I did, there is a tabbed btn behind for the same 
> purpose (striped bf)
> but I don't understand the solutino ??(sorry ? my English is bad)
>
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Fri Jul  4 03:51:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Fri Jul  4 03:51:01 2003
Subject: default button on OS X
In-Reply-To: <67AA5A5C-ADEF-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <A422EC48-ADFB-11D7-8AD6-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le vendredi, 4 juil 2003, ? 09:16 Europe/Brussels, Sarah a ?crit :

> Sorry for not explaining myself clearly :-)
> You will have to make the tabbed button shorter, so that the default 
> button is not on top of it's striped background. Adjust the height of 
> the tabbed button so that it is only just big enough to show the tabs 
> and the blue line underneath (about 30 pixels works well for me).
>
> If you want the striped background, the stripes are now available in 
> the Image Library (Standard images - bottom row) and you can set the 
> stack or card background to this.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>
>

Thank you. I'll try this week-end and let you know if it gives a good 
result.

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From junkmail at myscratchdisk.com  Fri Jul  4 04:03:03 2003
From: junkmail at myscratchdisk.com (junkmail at myscratchdisk.com)
Date: Fri Jul  4 04:03:03 2003
Subject: Quicktime Chapter Tracks
Message-ID: <370FEE56-ADFD-11D7-8887-003065A8434E@myscratchdisk.com>

How do I navigate Quicktime Chapter tracks with Revolution.

Is there a native way of navigating Quicktime Chapter Tracks with 
revolution? or cuePoints? AppleScript, QTscript, Director, iShell, and 
others all have way to navigate Chapter Tracks. I'm looking at 
Revolution as a cross-platform solution for current and future projects 
that relies on the ability to navigate Chapter Tracks.....

so if anyone knows how to do this please let me know.....


-d



From Robin.Harrington at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Jul  4 05:16:00 2003
From: Robin.Harrington at canterbury.ac.nz (Robin Harrington)
Date: Fri Jul  4 05:16:00 2003
Subject: Simple socket example
Message-ID: <84740A0E-ADBD-11D7-B626-003065A2220E@canterbury.ac.nz>

Hi,

I'm having trouble establishing whether Revolution will meet my needs 
and need a simple example of a telnet socket as I cannot get it to work 
(following the documentation).

Thanks
Robin



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Jul  4 05:18:04 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri Jul  4 05:18:04 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <BB2A72C9.D478%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BEFE333B-AE07-11D7-8B50-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Scott,

>>> Too bad, too. I'm dying to check it out. I want to write some 
>>> eduware games
>>> in RR, but haven't had the guts to take a stab at it.
>>
>> it is password protected and the scripts are locked.
>
> Look again. :-)

WOW, thanks for letting us take a closer look at your smart scripts :-)

And a real cool (and timewasting  ;-) app, too...

I still did not solve your phantastic puzzle you released one or two 
years ago :-)

> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director

Thanks again :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Jul  4 05:26:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri Jul  4 05:26:00 2003
Subject: Quicktime Chapter Tracks
In-Reply-To: <370FEE56-ADFD-11D7-8887-003065A8434E@myscratchdisk.com>
Message-ID: <E63B5EF7-AE08-11D7-8B50-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi junkmail,

(if that's your real name i would advice to sue your parents :-D

> How do I navigate Quicktime Chapter tracks with Revolution.
>
> Is there a native way of navigating Quicktime Chapter Tracks with 
> revolution? or cuePoints?
> AppleScript, QTscript, Director, iShell, and others all have way to 
> navigate Chapter Tracks.
> I'm looking at Revolution as a cross-platform solution for current and 
> future projects that relies
> on the ability to navigate Chapter Tracks.....
>
> so if anyone knows how to do this please let me know...

I have worked a lot with QT but not with chapter tracks...

Wild guess:

since "the tracks of player xx" will return a list of the tracks in 
that movies
in this format:

id, type, startime, endtime

It may be possible to extract the correct start and endtime of that 
track
and thus only play that part of the QT movie...

Since i have no movie with a chapter track, i cannot confirm/check this.

Hope this helps a bit...

> -d

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Fri Jul  4 06:35:00 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Fri Jul  4 06:35:00 2003
Subject: 2 Sheets to the wind
Message-ID: <web-305321200@mail.maclaunch.com>

I have just uploaded a small reference stack to my website:
STACK DISPLAYER.REV that
demonstrates the use of display terms such as SHEET, MODAL,
and so on.

Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From sonesond1 at southernct.edu  Fri Jul  4 07:29:00 2003
From: sonesond1 at southernct.edu (Dan Soneson)
Date: Fri Jul  4 07:29:00 2003
Subject: Subject: Re: [ANN] Game Available for Test
Message-ID: <F7843E3D-AE19-11D7-8115-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>

> Like everything Scott writes, this one is very cool. He really creates
> gorgeous stuff. You won't be able to explore it though; it is password
> protected and the scripts are locked.

Now I am confused. It seemed to me from the discussion last month 
regarding password-protecting stacks that you perform this step in the 
distribution builder when you are constructing a standalone. Where do 
you password protect a stack that is not a standalone?

BTW it is a Kool game. Can you go backwards in the clicking order if 
you just clicked over the color you want?

Cheers,
Dan



From jhurley at infostations.com  Fri Jul  4 08:32:03 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Fri Jul  4 08:32:03 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <200307022314.TAA25082@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307022314.TAA25082@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb2b2b655dc0@[66.81.133.180]>

Scott,

A true programmers' game. Thanks. I was particularly appreciative of 
the full ten rows for trial and error. I used my full allotment on 
more than one occasion.

A suggestion (which you won't like.) Although it would spoil the 
esthetics of the game, I would have preferred letters rather than 
colored balls. In clicking through to select a particular color, I 
found that I often overshot the mark and had to cycle through again. 
With an alphabetical sequence there would be less danger of that 
since one can follow the sequence more easily. Perhaps you could 
provide an options of color balls or letters.

Again, thanks for the game. I have reciprocated by posting a favorite 
of mine that I wrote some time ago--I believe with HC; but the speed 
of Run Rev is sooo much more satisfying. It is a simulation of one 
the crytogram puzzles you may have seen. It is a long division 
problem with letters replacing the numbers. The problem is to 
decipher the code. It is easy to cheat. The trick is not to.

Unfortunately this works only on the Mac. I need to line up rows of 
letters and numbers and that requires a uniformly spaced 
font--monospaced. I didn't see one that works on my PC. It looks like 
Georgia is the only monospaced font but it is illegible at 24 point 
size.

I learned something from your trick of calling up the url from within 
Run Rev, so run this from the message box (1.1.1 or 2.0)

     go url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CryptDivision.rev"


From ttasovac at Princeton.EDU  Fri Jul  4 09:04:00 2003
From: ttasovac at Princeton.EDU (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Fri Jul  4 09:04:00 2003
Subject: callback messages not getting sent
Message-ID: <54705DFE-AE27-11D7-B794-000393D60E0C@princeton.edu>

Dear List,

I am using callbacks in a quicktime audio file to set the textColor of 
items in a field.  It seems to be working very well, BUT only the first 
time I play the movie.  If, after playing it for a while, I drag the 
player controller to the beginning of the movie, the callback messages 
do not get sent anymore (i.e. after currentTimeChanged and playStarted, 
I see absolutely no activity in the Message Viewer).

Is this a bug?  Any suggestion for a workaround?

I'm using Rev 2.0.1 and  OS X 10.2.6

All best,
Toma



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Fri Jul  4 09:21:00 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Fri Jul  4 09:21:00 2003
Subject: Movie-Snapper upgrade
Message-ID: <web-305322447@mail.maclaunch.com>

Dear Runtime Revolution afficionados,
   I have just uploaded an upgraded version of my
MOVIE_SNAPPER.REV stack to my website.

This version, as well as exporting frames from movies as
JPEGs, allows you to choose where to save the exported
files, and to give them less boring names than 1,2,3.

Regards, Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From k.r.hauge at east.uio.no  Fri Jul  4 09:27:00 2003
From: k.r.hauge at east.uio.no (Kjetil =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E5?= Hauge)
Date: Fri Jul  4 09:27:00 2003
Subject: More Unicode woes
Message-ID: <p05200f00bb2b34becdab@[129.240.19.17]>

I'm trying to script an application (on Mac OS X) that will enable 
users to produce HTML pages in a number of non-latin-1 languages, 
with utf-8. For this purpose, I obviously need to export Unicode text 
to a file: "write the unicodetext of field "text" to file thefile".

The results are rather frustrating. Cyrillic seems to get translated 
to two-byte sequences, but not the correct ones: the first letters of 
the alphabet ("abvgd...") come out as "x0x1x2x3x4", where "x" is 
ASCII 4. Characters from the CE fonts (Czech, Polish) and Greek cause 
BBEdit to complain about a corrupted or malformed utf-8 file, while 
Turkish special characters cause no such complaint (but are still 
wrong).

I have tried to use the uniencode function instead, with the 
",language" parameter, but with similar results. Using "binfile" also 
does not change things.

If I export as htmltext instead of unicodetext, all four of these 
types are recognised throught their fonts ("font face = "Times CE" 
/"Times CY") and the characters are translated to correct HTML 
numerical entiities, except for the CE fonts, which are translated as 
if their font was changed to plain Times.

Also, when I try to use the character palette, the button "Insert" is 
not dimmed, but does not work. (Microsoft Word with its miserable 
Unicode support at least has the decency to dim it.)
-- 
---
Kjetil R? Hauge, U. of Oslo, PO Box 1030 Blindern, N-0315 Oslo, Norway
Tel. +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140


From ttasovac at Princeton.EDU  Fri Jul  4 09:57:00 2003
From: ttasovac at Princeton.EDU (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Fri Jul  4 09:57:00 2003
Subject: More Unicode woes
In-Reply-To: <p05200f00bb2b34becdab@[129.240.19.17]>
Message-ID: <ADDC7AD6-AE2E-11D7-B794-000393D60E0C@princeton.edu>

try this:

put the unicodeText of fld "text" into tText
put uniDecode (tText,"utf8") into url "file:mysavedtext.txt"

it works for me -- at least with cyrillic.  opens correctly in bbedit 
if you tell bbedit to open it as utf8, but not if you try to open it 
with auto-detect.

all best,
Toma



On Friday, July 4, 2003, at 04:19  PM, Kjetil R? Hauge wrote:

> I'm trying to script an application (on Mac OS X) that will enable 
> users to produce HTML pages in a number of non-latin-1 languages, with 
> utf-8. For this purpose, I obviously need to export Unicode text to a 
> file: "write the unicodetext of field "text" to file thefile".
>
> The results are rather frustrating. Cyrillic seems to get translated 
> to two-byte sequences, but not the correct ones: the first letters of 
> the alphabet ("abvgd...") come out as "x0x1x2x3x4", where "x" is ASCII 
> 4. Characters from the CE fonts (Czech, Polish) and Greek cause BBEdit 
> to complain about a corrupted or malformed utf-8 file, while Turkish 
> special characters cause no such complaint (but are still wrong).
>
> I have tried to use the uniencode function instead, with the 
> ",language" parameter, but with similar results. Using "binfile" also 
> does not change things.
>
> If I export as htmltext instead of unicodetext, all four of these 
> types are recognised throught their fonts ("font face = "Times CE" 
> /"Times CY") and the characters are translated to correct HTML 
> numerical entiities, except for the CE fonts, which are translated as 
> if their font was changed to plain Times.
>
> Also, when I try to use the character palette, the button "Insert" is 
> not dimmed, but does not work. (Microsoft Word with its miserable 
> Unicode support at least has the decency to dim it.)
> -- 
> ---
> Kjetil R? Hauge, U. of Oslo, PO Box 1030 Blindern, N-0315 Oslo, Norway
> Tel. +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Jul  4 10:07:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri Jul  4 10:07:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <200307040502.BAA29153@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2AE5A2.1AF4%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Jacque,

I finally got the game, but see below.

> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 00:18:07 -0500
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: [ANN] Game Available for Test

> Like everything Scott writes, this one is very cool. He really creates
> gorgeous stuff. You won't be able to explore it though; it is password
> protected and the scripts are locked.
----------
??? The game won't play. The only button that works at all is the circular
arrow which glows green and makes a sound.

However, ALL the scripts are available in the inspector (nothing is locked).

So what's going on?

Mac G4 tower, OS 9.2.1, 500mb RAM.

Ken N.




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Jul  4 10:15:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri Jul  4 10:15:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test -- problem!
In-Reply-To: <200307041328.JAA06012@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2AE76B.1AF5%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Cubist,

> From: Cubist at aol.com
> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 02:28:44 EDT
> Subject: Re: [ANN] Game Available for Test -- problem!
> 
> Okay... I open up REV. I type [ go stack url
> "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev" ] into the message
> box. Something downloads; I see
> KODEKRAKER on my screen, and I hear that funky technoid soundtrack.
> So far, so good.
----------
That's what I got , too
----------
> I click on "Kontinue"... and nothing happens. Message watcher confirms no
> messages are triggered when I click on "Kontinue".
> I click on "Play", and it's the same story -- no messges, no discernable
> response whatsoever. Game? What game?
----------
I have the same problem...sort of. I did get the Circular Arrow to light up
and make a sound, but that's all.

Does your arrow button do that at least, or anything else.

Ken N.



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Fri Jul  4 11:47:00 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Fri Jul  4 11:47:00 2003
Subject: Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bb2b2b655dc0@[66.81.133.180]> 
References: <200307022314.TAA25082@www.runrev.com>
            <a05210600bb2b2b655dc0@[66.81.133.180]>
Message-ID: <20030704163932.29706.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Jim Hurley writes:
[snip]
> Unfortunately this works only on the Mac. I need to line up rows of 
> letters and numbers and that requires a uniformly spaced font--monospaced. 
> I didn't see one that works on my PC. It looks like Georgia is the only 
> monospaced font but it is illegible at 24 point size. 
> 
==============
Did you try Courier New font? I beleive that it is installed with the OS.
Geogia must be some third-party font so probably won't be found on many 
systems. So unless it is embedded in your app, it won't work anyway. 

miscdas


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Jul  4 12:18:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri Jul  4 12:18:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <BB2AE5A2.1AF4%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BB2AE5A2.1AF4%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <3F05B4FF.3080900@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/4/03 7:04 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> However, ALL the scripts are available in the inspector (nothing is locked).

The first version I retrieved was locked. The one I downloaded today is 
open. I think Scott has deprotected it for us. Thanks Scott, it's always 
nice to see how you accomplish your magic.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Jul  4 13:03:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri Jul  4 13:03:01 2003
Subject: Subject: Re: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <F7843E3D-AE19-11D7-8115-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>
References: <F7843E3D-AE19-11D7-8115-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>
Message-ID: <3F05B596.9000506@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/4/03 7:20 AM, Dan Soneson wrote:

> Now I am confused. It seemed to me from the discussion last month 
> regarding password-protecting stacks that you perform this step in the 
> distribution builder when you are constructing a standalone. Where do 
> you password protect a stack that is not a standalone?

 From the message box, if not elsewhere (I haven't looked.) Stacks can 
easily be password protected:

   set the password of this stack to "myPassword"

The setting in the distribution builder is a convenience, but not the 
only way.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul  4 15:04:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul  4 15:04:00 2003
Subject: Launching a Cygwin/DOS program 
In-Reply-To: <IEENIBKPNJOKEMHOKOFCEEOBCJAA.hansydelm@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <A0B602DE-AE59-11D7-AD16-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, June 30, 2003, at 06:02 AM, Hans wrote:

> The following command fails:
>
>  launch "cygwin_program > logfile.txt"
>
> However, when I put the cygwin_program into a DOS batch file it all 
> works,
>
> batch file :
>   cygwin_program > %1
> Revolution :
>   launch "cygwin_program.bat logfile.txt"
>
> If I use the open process command revolution hangs
>
> open process "cygwin_program" for read
> read from process "cygwin_program" until end
> put it into field "logfile"
> close process "cygwin_program"

As Jan said, use shell.  The above should be reported.

Dar Scott



From Cubist at aol.com  Fri Jul  4 15:07:01 2003
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Fri Jul  4 15:07:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test -- problem! (solved!)
Message-ID: <d3.1f6f9dd9.2c37369c@aol.com>

sez me:
>> Okay... I open up REV. I type [ go stack url
>> "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev" ] into the message
>> box. Something downloads...
>> I click on "Kontinue"... and nothing happens.
>> I click on "Play", and it's the same story... no discernable
>> response whatsoever. Game? What game?
>> What am I doing wrong?

sez scott at tactilemedia.com:
>By any chance do you have the pointer tool selected?  This might interrupt
>the scripts from running.  Double check that you have the browse tool
>selected before downloading.
   Tried browse tool as directed; no joy. Curiously, clicking in the 
KODEKRACKER window with the pointer never selected anything -- and there's *lots* of 
buttons & etc that I *should* have been able to select!
   Saved KODEKRAKER to my hard drive. Closed the K. window, removed it from 
memory. Tried opening the K. I'd just saved... and Rev. crashed.
   Got back into Rev. Opened K. from my hard drive. *Now* everything works! 
Yay!
   Nice piece of work. I shall explore its secrets. Thanks!


From k.r.hauge at east.uio.no  Fri Jul  4 15:54:00 2003
From: k.r.hauge at east.uio.no (Kjetil =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E5?= Hauge)
Date: Fri Jul  4 15:54:00 2003
Subject: More Unicode woes
In-Reply-To: <200307041605.MAA10198@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307041605.MAA10198@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p05210600bb2b96415511@[10.29.0.186]>

>From: Toma Tasovac <ttasovac at Princeton.EDU>
>[...]

>try this:
>
>put the unicodeText of fld "text" into tText
>put uniDecode (tText,"utf8") into url "file:mysavedtext.txt"
>
>it works for me -- at least with cyrillic.  opens correctly in bbedit
>if you tell bbedit to open it as utf8, but not if you try to open it
>with auto-detect.

Thanks a lot, this did the trick - at least with Cyrillic, Greek and 
Turkish. I hope that RunRev will add this to the "recipe" collection 
in their documentation. CE fonts, however, still are interpreted as 
latin-1.
-- 
--- Kjetil R? Hauge, U. of Oslo. Tel. +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140
--- (this msg sent from home, +47/67148424, fax +1/5084372444)


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul  4 16:23:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul  4 16:23:00 2003
Subject: Quicktime Chapter Tracks
In-Reply-To: <370FEE56-ADFD-11D7-8887-003065A8434E@myscratchdisk.com>
Message-ID: <BB2B3C6B.3025D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

junkmail at myscratchdisk.com wrote:

> How do I navigate Quicktime Chapter tracks with Revolution.
> 
> Is there a native way of navigating Quicktime Chapter Tracks with
> revolution? or cuePoints? AppleScript, QTscript, Director, iShell,
> and others all have way to navigate Chapter Tracks.  I'm looking
> at Revolution as a cross-platform solution for current and future
> projects that relies on the ability to navigate Chapter Tracks.....

Chapter tracks and cuePoits are very different things.  Revolution supports
a wide variety of QT notifications, messages, and structures, so while it
doesn't currently support chapter tracks if going as far away from that as
cuePoints would work for you then maybe going just a little farther to Rev's
support for callbacks will provide what you need.

Thinking this might make a good feature suggestion to submit, I was hoping
to find the documentation for Director and iShell with regard to chapter
track support to serve as a guide, but alas came up empty.  Where should I
look for that in those products?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Jul  4 17:29:00 2003
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri Jul  4 17:29:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test -- won't d/l and run
In-Reply-To: <d3.1f6f9dd9.2c37369c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CF408178-AE6D-11D7-B259-0003936D5826@earthlink.net>

Hmmm...

When I I open up REV and then type [ go stack url 
"http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev" ] into the 
message
>>> box.

(in v 1.1 not 2) absolutely nothing happens... I just get a message 
that the stack is defective and I should try the ~backup stack).  What 
am I doing wrong?

Marian



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Jul  4 17:51:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri Jul  4 17:51:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test -- won't d/l and run
In-Reply-To: <CF408178-AE6D-11D7-B259-0003936D5826@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BB2B511B.D4CB%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Marian Petrides wrote:

> When I I open up REV and then type [ go stack url
> "http://www.tactilemedia.com/test/stacks/kodekraker.rev" ] into the
> message
>>>> box.
> 
> (in v 1.1 not 2) absolutely nothing happens... I just get a message
> that the stack is defective and I should try the ~backup stack).  What
> am I doing wrong?

Requires version 2.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Sat Jul  5 03:38:00 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Sat Jul  5 03:38:00 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <200307041328.JAA06075@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2C594E.1F6D%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

>> Is there an equivalent to the following Supercard statement?
>> 
>> functionName([paramList]) via object
>> 
>> I tried the "value()", "send", "call", "do" expressions in RR but do not get
>> the intended results.
> 
> The "value" function has an optional object param which lets it behave like
> SuperCard's "via", if memory serves about how "via" works.

YES I did but it does not behave as described in the docs, only the "me"
keyword is related to the optional object param.

Any other idea?



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sat Jul  5 05:41:00 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Sat Jul  5 05:41:00 2003
Subject: Quicktime Chapter Tracks
In-Reply-To: <BB2B3C6B.3025D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <F119D3F4-AED3-11D7-A60D-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Friday, Jul 4, 2003, at 23:15 Europe/Vienna, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Thinking this might make a good feature suggestion to submit, I was 
> hoping
> to find the documentation for Director and iShell with regard to 
> chapter
> track support to serve as a guide, but alas came up empty.  Where 
> should I
> look for that in those products?

I dont know, but maybe here..:

LiveStagePro
http://www.totallyhip.com/

QuickMedia 5
http://www.omegaconcept.net/

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From ASGolub at dkhglaw.com  Sat Jul  5 07:33:00 2003
From: ASGolub at dkhglaw.com (Alan S. Golub)
Date: Sat Jul  5 07:33:00 2003
Subject: revJournal launch
In-Reply-To: <67AA5A5C-ADEF-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <C6A30A90-AEE3-11D7-819B-000A957CB626@dkhglaw.com>

Folks, my host has been down this weekend, delaying the scheduled 
launch of the revJournal site. Assuming we're back online within the 
next day or so, we'll be going live on Monday, July 7th.

I'll post an announcement when www.revjournal.com is up and running. 
Sorry for the delay.



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat Jul  5 10:16:02 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat Jul  5 10:16:02 2003
Subject: Quicktime Chapter Tracks
In-Reply-To: <BB2B3C6B.3025D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-A31F2A76AEFA11D7A51400039376023C@[10.0.0.2]>

On 7/4/03 Richard Gaskin wrote
>Chapter tracks and cuePoits are very different things.  Revolution supports
>a wide variety of QT notifications, messages, and structures, so while it
>doesn't currently support chapter tracks if going as far away from that as
>cuePoints would work for you then maybe going just a little farther to Rev's
>support for callbacks will provide what you need.
>
>Thinking this might make a good feature suggestion to submit, I was hoping
>to find the documentation for Director and iShell with regard to chapter
>track support to serve as a guide, but alas came up empty.  Where should I
>look for that in those products?

You can find information on iShell's support of Chapter Tracks and Cue Points here:

http://www.tribeworks.com/member/download/iShell3/iShell_3_Reference_Guide.pdf 

Look at page 51.

You may have to get a free membership to access this.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jul  5 11:49:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Jul  5 11:49:00 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <BB2C594E.1F6D%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <BB2C4DB6.302A3%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jo?l Guillod wrote:

>>> Is there an equivalent to the following Supercard statement?
>>> 
>>> functionName([paramList]) via object
>>> 
>>> I tried the "value()", "send", "call", "do" expressions in RR but do not get
>>> the intended results.
>> 
>> The "value" function has an optional object param which lets it behave like
>> SuperCard's "via", if memory serves about how "via" works.
> 
> YES I did but it does not behave as described in the docs, only the "me"
> keyword is related to the optional object param.

I don't understand this.  If it only supported "me" it would not be needed
at all.  But I can assure you it works with other object descriptors as
well.   What code were you using that brought unexpected results?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jul  5 11:58:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Jul  5 11:58:01 2003
Subject: Quicktime Chapter Tracks
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-A31F2A76AEFA11D7A51400039376023C@[10.0.0.2]>
Message-ID: <BB2C4FCA.302A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:

>> Thinking this might make a good feature suggestion to submit, I was hoping
>> to find the documentation for Director and iShell with regard to chapter
>> track support to serve as a guide, but alas came up empty.  Where should I
>> look for that in those products?
> 
> You can find information on iShell's support of Chapter Tracks and Cue Points
> here:
> 
> http://www.tribeworks.com/member/download/iShell3/iShell_3_Reference_Guide.pdf
> 
> Look at page 51.

Excellent. Thank you.  The screen Saver timer option is a nice touch there.
The rest of the iShell support for chapter tracks seems rather simple and
very straightforward, so hopefully it could be at least matched by Rev not
too far down the road.

Has this request been made on the xTalk list?
 
-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Sat Jul  5 12:41:01 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Sat Jul  5 12:41:01 2003
Subject: Movie-Snapper 2.2
Message-ID: <web-305342311@mail.maclaunch.com>

I have just uploaded version 2.2 of my Movie-Snapper stack
to my website.  This version now gives the user the choice
of exporting movie frames as JPEGs or PNGs.

Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat Jul  5 13:09:00 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat Jul  5 13:09:00 2003
Subject: Quicktime Chapter Tracks
In-Reply-To: <BB2C4FCA.302A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-B3482591AF1211D7A51400039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>

On 7/5/03 Richard Gaskin wrote

>Trevor DeVore wrote:
>> 
>> You can find information on iShell's support of Chapter Tracks and Cue Points
>> here:
>> 
>> http://www.tribeworks.com/member/download/iShell3/iShell_3_Reference_Guide.pdf
>> 
>> Look at page 51.
>
>Excellent. Thank you.  The screen Saver timer option is a nice touch there.
>The rest of the iShell support for chapter tracks seems rather simple and
>very straightforward, so hopefully it could be at least matched by Rev not
>too far down the road.

I would really like to see additions to QT support in Rev.  The primary reason I purchased Rev was to create applications that rely heavily on QuickTime and Databases.  I can do a lot of great stuff with it's current support but if additional support were added for things like intermovie communication, chapter tracks and the ApplicationliveNumberAndString message then it would open up new possibilities in some cases and be real time savers in others.

>Has this request been made on the xTalk list?

I know Kevin entered a request I made for intermovie communication into the feature request list.  I'm not sure if this has been made on the xTalk list however.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch  Sat Jul  5 15:39:00 2003
From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo)
Date: Sat Jul  5 15:39:00 2003
Subject: Picture in a field?
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-B3482591AF1211D7A51400039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>
Message-ID: <BB2D02B2.B46C%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>

Hello everybody!
I know, I'm very dummy!
But is it an object in Revolution where is it possible to paste text and
pictures?
I want to paste a text and some illustrations in the text, all in a field
(or other object).
What may I do?
Thank you
Fran?ois
-------------- 
Fran?ois Cuneo
Site Web d?di? au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sat Jul  5 16:13:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sat Jul  5 16:13:00 2003
Subject: Desktop icon in Mac OS X
Message-ID: <DED107D2-AF2C-11D7-9FB8-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hello,


Can someone explain me how I can set a desktop icon to my app starting 
from the stack Builder

I've done a picture with "iconographer", save it as ics

then in the step 3 of the builder, tab "mac OSX" I've chosen this 
file...

and my app has no icon at all !!!


Thanks.
Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


Salutations.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jul  5 16:36:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Jul  5 16:36:00 2003
Subject: Quicktime Chapter Tracks
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-B3482591AF1211D7A51400039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>
Message-ID: <BB2C90E2.302C0%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:

> I would really like to see additions to QT support in Rev.  The primary reason
> I purchased Rev was to create applications that rely heavily on QuickTime and
> Databases.  I can do a lot of great stuff with it's current support but if
> additional support were added for things like intermovie communication,
> chapter tracks and the ApplicationliveNumberAndString message then it would
> open up new possibilities in some cases and be real time savers in others.

As a workaround in the meantime you could use SMIL (QT 4. of later) or 3GPP
(new in QT 6.3) to create your own synch tracks for text.

>> Has this request been made on the xTalk list?
> 
> I know Kevin entered a request I made for intermovie communication into the
> feature request list.  I'm not sure if this has been made on the xTalk list
> however.

If Kevin's entered it that should be enough.  Since we're looking at only a
handful of new properties it probably doesn't require the peer review
process that makes the xTalk list valuable.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat Jul  5 16:57:00 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat Jul  5 16:57:00 2003
Subject: Quicktime Chapter Tracks
In-Reply-To: <BB2C90E2.302C0%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-A2EC54E4AF3211D7A51400039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>

On 7/5/03 Richard Gaskin wrote

>Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> I would really like to see additions to QT support in Rev.  The primary reason
>> I purchased Rev was to create applications that rely heavily on QuickTime and
>> Databases.  I can do a lot of great stuff with it's current support but if
>> additional support were added for things like intermovie communication,
>> chapter tracks and the ApplicationliveNumberAndString message then it would
>> open up new possibilities in some cases and be real time savers in others.
>
>As a workaround in the meantime you could use SMIL (QT 4. of later) or 3GPP
>(new in QT 6.3) to create your own synch tracks for text.

My current project that I am working on doesn't use the synching so I haven't been too concerned about that yet.  The two features I would love to see supported are intermovie communication and ApplicationNumberAndString messages.  Right now I am sending messages to Revolution from QT using DebugStr and extracting action commands from that.  ApplicationNumberAndString would be cleaner as you can pass two parameters (a number and a string) to the host app (Revolution) from your QT movie.  Intermovie communication would be very useful for me as well as you can could have multiple QT movies within a Rev app talking and reacting to each other without any code in Rev.  I have some VR stuff that would benefit from that (having interactive maps made with Flash or Wired Sprites reacting to movements in the QTVR).

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jul  5 17:47:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Jul  5 17:47:00 2003
Subject: Quicktime Chapter Tracks
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-A2EC54E4AF3211D7A51400039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>
Message-ID: <BB2CA199.302CA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:

>> Trevor DeVore wrote:
>> 
>>> I would really like to see additions to QT support in Rev.  The primary
>>> reason
>>> I purchased Rev was to create applications that rely heavily on QuickTime
>>> and
>>> Databases.  I can do a lot of great stuff with it's current support but if
>>> additional support were added for things like intermovie communication,
>>> chapter tracks and the ApplicationliveNumberAndString message then it would
>>> open up new possibilities in some cases and be real time savers in others.
>> 
>> As a workaround in the meantime you could use SMIL (QT 4. of later) or 3GPP
>> (new in QT 6.3) to create your own synch tracks for text.
> 
> My current project that I am working on doesn't use the synching so I haven't
> been too concerned about that yet.  The two features I would love to see
> supported are intermovie communication and ApplicationNumberAndString
> messages.  Right now I am sending messages to Revolution from QT using
> DebugStr and extracting action commands from that.  ApplicationNumberAndString
> would be cleaner as you can pass two parameters (a number and a string) to the
> host app (Revolution) from your QT movie.  Intermovie communication would be
> very useful for me as well as you can could have multiple QT movies within a
> Rev app talking and reacting to each other without any code in Rev.  I have
> some VR stuff that would benefit from that (having interactive maps made with
> Flash or Wired Sprites reacting to movements in the QTVR).

Indeed that would be way cool.

In playing with chaper tracks in Rev I've found that while Rev is normally
good about displaying the appropriate controller for each QT type (movie,
VR, streaming), with movies that contain chapter tracks it doesn't seem to
show the chapter pop-up control.  It'd be nice if Tuviah could add that
along with at least a read-only property to get the chapter names and
corresponding timecode offsets.

<OT>
Since you seem to know your way around QT, maybe you can help me find
something:  I'm trying to determine if it's possible to have a QTVR movie in
which portions of the pano have animations looped in it.  I'm told that
LiveStage Pro can do this, but in playing with the demo I can't figure it
out, and I've not seen any good demos that show such a technique.

Is this doable?
</OT>
 
-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Jul  5 18:52:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sat Jul  5 18:52:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] New Demo Stack and Viewer Update
Message-ID: <BB2CB0F4.D520%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Following on the heels of our KodeKraker game stack, we've added a new stack
to our demo collection called "Ease" which demonstrates ease-in and ease-out
animation techniques for Revolution/MetaCard.  Included are samples of
ease-in and ease-out animations and how they compare to using the built-in
"move" command.  Thanks to fellow list member Rich Herz for acting as the
"man behind the math" in the routines. :-)

For those of you who have used "move" to move objects around a card, you
know that the move commend is very regular and mechanical looking.
Ease-in/out adds nuance to object motion which can make animation appear a
bit more organic.  Time permitting, we'll add some new algorithms in an
update that provide more control over the ease behavior, and possibly
math-driven paths.

Also updated are our demo stacks, and our stack viewer which is now
(hopefully) more Rev friendly and provides separate access to Rev and MC
stacks.  While carefully *avoiding* use of your Web browser, type either of
the following into your Rev or MC message box:

  go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"

  go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.mc"

Questions/problems, let us know...

Best Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From jeanne at runrev.com  Sat Jul  5 21:03:00 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat Jul  5 21:03:00 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <BB2C594E.1F6D%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
References: <200307041328.JAA06075@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <v03130317bb2c85bdcda7@[158.252.223.194]>

At 1:30 AM -0700 7/5/03, Jo?l Guillod wrote:
>>> Is there an equivalent to the following Supercard statement?
>>>
>>> functionName([paramList]) via object
>
>YES I did but it does not behave as described in the docs, only the "me"
>keyword is related to the optional object param.


What exactly are you trying to do?

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Jul  5 21:54:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat Jul  5 21:54:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <200307051601.MAA24076@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2CDCAA.1B1E%pixelbird@interisland.net>

*************
> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 12:10:23 -0500
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: [ANN] Game Available for Test

> Thanks Scott, it's always
> nice to see how you accomplish your magic.
----------
Agreed. I finally got it to open correctly. Great game (I'm not so good at
it yet, though).

Also, many thanks for opening the "kode". It'll make a wonderful study.

Ken N.



From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Jul  5 22:33:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat Jul  5 22:33:00 2003
Subject: Stack jumps from top level to palette
In-Reply-To: <200307051601.MAA24144@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307051601.MAA24144@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb2d3d5168b7@[66.81.129.25]>

I've got serious troubles.

I have a stack (with *lot* of stuff) that I think may have become corrupted.

Every time I press command 2 or 3 to move to the previous or next 
card (Mac OS), the stack changes from toplevel to palette. If I type 
"go to next card" in the message box, the stack changes from top 
level to palette. Buttons with handles "go to next card" take me to 
the palette mode.

The arrow keys will move me from card to card without the change in stack mode.

This happens only with this one stack so it probably is not a corrupted engine.

There is noting in the stack script which should cause this behavior.

Any ideas?

Troubled,

Jim



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 22:50:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sat Jul  5 22:50:01 2003
Subject: Stack jumps from top level to palette
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bb2d3d5168b7@[66.81.129.25]>
Message-ID: <20030706034306.53150.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
> I've got serious troubles.
> 
> I have a stack (with *lot* of stuff) that I think
> may have become corrupted.
> 
> Every time I press command 2 or 3 to move to the
> previous or next 
> card (Mac OS), the stack changes from toplevel to
> palette. If I type 
> "go to next card" in the message box, the stack
> changes from top 
> level to palette. Buttons with handles "go to next
> card" take me to 
> the palette mode.
> 
> The arrow keys will move me from card to card
> without the change in stack mode.
> 
> This happens only with this one stack so it probably
> is not a corrupted engine.
> 
> There is noting in the stack script which should
> cause this behavior.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Troubled,
> 
> Jim
> 

Hi Jim,

What is the content of the 'style' property of the
stack ? I was bitten a while back by a stack that had
accidentally been set to modeless and kept jumping
back to it whenever I opened it.
  set the style of stack "Foobar" to "toplevel"

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Jul  5 23:31:00 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat Jul  5 23:31:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] New Demo Stack and Viewer Update
In-Reply-To: <BB2CB0F4.D520%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB2D0EC4.14E4%kray@sonsothunder.com>

Very nice, Scott! Keep it up!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


> From:     Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 16:44:36 -0700
> To:     Metacard List <metacard at lists.runrev.com>, Revolution List
> <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: [ANN] New Demo Stack and Viewer Update
> 
> go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.mc"



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 23:34:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sat Jul  5 23:34:01 2003
Subject: Picture in a field?
In-Reply-To: <BB2D02B2.B46C%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>
Message-ID: <20030706042629.56291.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Fran?ois Cuneo <francois.cuneo at cuk.ch> wrote:
> 
> Hello everybody!
> I know, I'm very dummy!
> But is it an object in Revolution where is it
> possible to paste text and
> pictures?
> I want to paste a text and some illustrations in the
> text, all in a field
> (or other object).
> What may I do?
> Thank you
> Fran?ois
> -------------- 
> Fran?ois Cuneo
> 

Bonjour Fran?ois,

First of all, don't orry about asking quesions. It's
better to ask them and get answers than sit back and
do nothing, or worse, claiming it can't be done.

That being said, you can indeed insert images into
fields, but copy+paste is a different ballpark (though
not impossible).

To insert an image into a field, you have to set the
'imageSource' of a chunk in that field ; however, the
image will replace that chunk on display.
Example :
  set the imageSource of char 1 of line 3 of \
      field "foo" to 210095
will replace char 1 of line 3 with the small
RuntimeRevolution logo.

You can set the imageSource to the name of an image
you imported earlier, or even a URL ; check the
Transcript Dictionary for more info.

As for copy+pasting the text with images into a
Revolution field : you may have some luck with the
'clipboardData' property, but I think you'd have
better luck with some form of import.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch  Sun Jul  6 03:35:00 2003
From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo)
Date: Sun Jul  6 03:35:00 2003
Subject: Picture in a field?
In-Reply-To: <20030706042629.56291.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB2DAA92.B47F%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>

> --- Fran?ois Cuneo <francois.cuneo at cuk.ch> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everybody!
>> I know, I'm very dummy!
>> But is it an object in Revolution where is it
>> possible to paste text and
>> pictures?
>> I want to paste a text and some illustrations in the
>> text, all in a field
>> (or other object).
>> What may I do?
>> Thank you
>> Fran?ois
>> -------------- 
>> Fran?ois Cuneo
>> 
> 
> Bonjour Fran?ois,
> 
> First of all, don't orry about asking quesions. It's
> better to ask them and get answers than sit back and
> do nothing, or worse, claiming it can't be done.
> 
> That being said, you can indeed insert images into
> fields, but copy+paste is a different ballpark (though
> not impossible).
> 
> To insert an image into a field, you have to set the
> 'imageSource' of a chunk in that field ; however, the
> image will replace that chunk on display.
> Example :
> set the imageSource of char 1 of line 3 of \
>     field "foo" to 210095
> will replace char 1 of line 3 with the small
> RuntimeRevolution logo.
> 
> You can set the imageSource to the name of an image
> you imported earlier, or even a URL ; check the
> Transcript Dictionary for more info.
> 
> As for copy+pasting the text with images into a
> Revolution field : you may have some luck with the
> 'clipboardData' property, but I think you'd have
> better luck with some form of import.
> 
> Hope this helped,
> 
> Jan Schenkel.
> 
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La
> Rochefoucauld)
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
Thank you very much Jan!
Sure it will help me!

-------------- 
Fran?ois Cuneo
Site Web d?di? au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch



From valetia at mac.com  Sun Jul  6 03:51:01 2003
From: valetia at mac.com (valetia at mac.com)
Date: Sun Jul  6 03:51:01 2003
Subject: Picture in a field?
In-Reply-To: <20030706042629.56291.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB2E1E6C.2E596%valetia@mac.com>

Is there a way to perform a "text wrap"?

The imageSource method seems to place the picture on the same level as a
single line of text.

How would you have multiple lines of text flowing alongside an image in the
same field (like the way it works with HTML)?

Valetia




From chripa at aon.at  Sun Jul  6 04:35:00 2003
From: chripa at aon.at (Christoph Pastl)
Date: Sun Jul  6 04:35:00 2003
Subject: Open driver?
Message-ID: <BB2DB813.222%chripa@aon.at>

Hello!

I?m using RR 2.0 on a PowerMac G4/400 with Mac OS 9.1.
I want to develop a program which connects to a USB interface
(an evaluation board). This USB board looks like a serial port for the Mac.
But: I don?t know how to connect to this hardware with RR.
The "open driver" command does not work.
I used many different names for the drivername, but no success.
(I took the drivername which appears in the Apple System Profiler too.)

The reason I know that my USB board is "visible" for the MacOS is,
that I can request its name using AppleScript. (With the "SerialPort osax")
I can also send data to my module using this osax.

How can I connect to my virtual serial port?


Chris 


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  6 05:01:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun Jul  6 05:01:01 2003
Subject: Picture in a field?
In-Reply-To: <BB2E1E6C.2E596%valetia@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20030706095314.71077.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "valetia at mac.com" <valetia at mac.com> wrote:
> Is there a way to perform a "text wrap"?
> 
> The imageSource method seems to place the picture on
> the same level as a
> single line of text.
> 
> How would you have multiple lines of text flowing
> alongside an image in the
> same field (like the way it works with HTML)?
> 
> Valetia
> 


Hi Valetia,

I don't think that's possible at the moment. However,
if you're a Windows user, you could use altBrowser :
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/altBrowser.htm
Let's keep our fingers crossed the authors can find a
way to build Mac and Unix versions.

In the meantime, you could do something similar with
the following, time-consuming workaround :
- make the field at its full size (no scrolling) and
set its tabStops property to 10 for easier alignment
- place image controls at the correct spots, editing
the field along the way, breaking lines with return
and adding tabs to make sure the text is drawn
correctly around the images
- place a transparent graphic control at the top and
the bottom of the field ; note that these have to be
visible or things won't work
- group the images and the 2 graphic controls, and set
the margins of the group to 0
- set the script of the field to also scroll the image
group at the same time :
  on scrollbarDrag
    set the vScroll of group "images" to \
        the vScroll of me
  end scrollbarDrag
And there you have it : your images and text flowing
together neatly as you scroll.

For more fine-tuned control, you can set the tabStops
of the field to a lower number ; if you feel up to it,
you could set this to 1, and script your way through
the procedure by examing formattedWidth of chunks of
the field and formattedHeight of images, etc.

In a variation on the above, you can do the following
:
- place the images about where you'd want them to end
up (you may have to tweak later)
- place the text in multiple borderless fields to the
right and left of them, and between them, tweaking
their positions manually
- group the lot and give the group scrollbars.
There might even be ways to make editing easier, as
you can auto-flow from one field to another ; check
out this post from a while ago :
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-October/009003.html

All in all, not the easiest thing to do, and your
careful placement might become a disaster on a
computer that ahs a slightly different font.

Nevertheless, I hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch  Sun Jul  6 07:15:00 2003
From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo)
Date: Sun Jul  6 07:15:00 2003
Subject: Picture in a field?
In-Reply-To: <BB2DAA92.B47F%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>
Message-ID: <BB2DDE25.B48C%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>

>> --- Fran?ois Cuneo <francois.cuneo at cuk.ch> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello everybody!
>>> I know, I'm very dummy!
>>> But is it an object in Revolution where is it
>>> possible to paste text and
>>> pictures?
>>> I want to paste a text and some illustrations in the
>>> text, all in a field
>>> (or other object).
>>> What may I do?
>>> Thank you
>>> Fran?ois
>>> -------------- 
>>> Fran?ois Cuneo
>>> 
>> 
>> Bonjour Fran?ois,
>> 
>> First of all, don't orry about asking quesions. It's
>> better to ask them and get answers than sit back and
>> do nothing, or worse, claiming it can't be done.
>> 
>> That being said, you can indeed insert images into
>> fields, but copy+paste is a different ballpark (though
>> not impossible).
>> 
>> To insert an image into a field, you have to set the
>> 'imageSource' of a chunk in that field ; however, the
>> image will replace that chunk on display.
>> Example :
>> set the imageSource of char 1 of line 3 of \
>>     field "foo" to 210095
>> will replace char 1 of line 3 with the small
>> RuntimeRevolution logo.
>> 
>> You can set the imageSource to the name of an image
>> you imported earlier, or even a URL ; check the
>> Transcript Dictionary for more info.
>> 
>> As for copy+pasting the text with images into a
>> Revolution field : you may have some luck with the
>> 'clipboardData' property, but I think you'd have
>> better luck with some form of import.
>> 
>> Hope this helped,
Jan, in fact, I don't know what the user of my application will paste in the
field.
Maybe text, maybe text and picture, maybe picture only.
So, is it possible to prepare that?
Thank you.
Fran?ois
-------------- 
Fran?ois Cuneo
Site Web d?di? au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  6 07:43:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun Jul  6 07:43:00 2003
Subject: Picture in a field?
In-Reply-To: <BB2DDE25.B48C%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>
Message-ID: <20030706123611.4703.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Fran?ois Cuneo <francois.cuneo at cuk.ch> wrote:
> >> --- Fran?ois Cuneo <francois.cuneo at cuk.ch> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Hello everybody!
> >>> I know, I'm very dummy!
> >>> But is it an object in Revolution where is it
> >>> possible to paste text and
> >>> pictures?
> >>> I want to paste a text and some illustrations in
> the
> >>> text, all in a field
> >>> (or other object).
> >>> What may I do?
> >>> Thank you
> >>> Fran?ois
> >>> -------------- 
> >>> Fran?ois Cuneo
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> Bonjour Fran?ois,
> >> 
> >> First of all, don't orry about asking quesions.
> It's
> >> better to ask them and get answers than sit back
> and
> >> do nothing, or worse, claiming it can't be done.
> >> 
> >> That being said, you can indeed insert images
> into
> >> fields, but copy+paste is a different ballpark
> (though
> >> not impossible).
> >> 
> >> To insert an image into a field, you have to set
> the
> >> 'imageSource' of a chunk in that field ; however,
> the
> >> image will replace that chunk on display.
> >> Example :
> >> set the imageSource of char 1 of line 3 of \
> >>     field "foo" to 210095
> >> will replace char 1 of line 3 with the small
> >> RuntimeRevolution logo.
> >> 
> >> You can set the imageSource to the name of an
> image
> >> you imported earlier, or even a URL ; check the
> >> Transcript Dictionary for more info.
> >> 
> >> As for copy+pasting the text with images into a
> >> Revolution field : you may have some luck with
> the
> >> 'clipboardData' property, but I think you'd have
> >> better luck with some form of import.
> >> 
> >> Hope this helped,
> Jan, in fact, I don't know what the user of my
> application will paste in the
> field.
> Maybe text, maybe text and picture, maybe picture
> only.
> So, is it possible to prepare that?
> Thank you.
> Fran?ois
> -------------- 
> Fran?ois Cuneo
> 

Unless you do something special in the 'on pasteKey'
handler in your field, only the (styled) text will be
copied through, and the images would not make it to
the other side.
That's why I think an import routine is probably the
way to go if you want to fill fields with imges from
an external source.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From jhurley at infostations.com  Sun Jul  6 08:12:01 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sun Jul  6 08:12:01 2003
Subject: Stack jumps from top level to palette
In-Reply-To: <200307060739.DAA02581@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307060739.DAA02581@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb2dc8fb82e6@[69.19.172.99]>

>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 12
>Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 20:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: Stack jumps from top level to palette
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>--- Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
>>  I've got serious troubles.
>>
>>  I have a stack (with *lot* of stuff) that I think
>>  may have become corrupted.
>>
>>  Every time I press command 2 or 3 to move to the
>>  previous or next
>>  card (Mac OS), the stack changes from toplevel to
>>  palette. If I type
>>  "go to next card" in the message box, the stack
>>  changes from top
>>  level to palette. Buttons with handles "go to next
>>  card" take me to
>>  the palette mode.
>>
>>  The arrow keys will move me from card to card
>>  without the change in stack mode.
>>
>>  This happens only with this one stack so it probably
>>  is not a corrupted engine.
>>
>>  There is noting in the stack script which should
>>  cause this behavior.
>>
>>  Any ideas?
>>
>>  Troubled,
>>
>>  Jim
>>
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>What is the content of the 'style' property of the
>stack ? I was bitten a while back by a stack that had
>accidentally been set to modeless and kept jumping
>back to it whenever I opened it.
>   set the style of stack "Foobar" to "toplevel"
>
>Hope this helped,
>
>Jan Schenkel.
>
=

Jan,

I was about to reply that I have been resetting the mode to toplevel 
every time it jumped to palette mode, perhaps a couple of dozen 
times--every time I changed cards. I was making the change from the 
pop up contextual sensitive menu (command-control-shift-click on the 
Mac.)

But I thought I would first follow your advice literally and so I set 
the style to toplevel in the message box. Eureka! This time it stuck. 
It turns out that using the menu palette is ephemeral. It only 
changes the mode temporarily. The mode reverts back to palette after 
command 3 to go to the next card.

Very odd.

Thank you Jan.

Jim


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  6 08:45:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun Jul  6 08:45:00 2003
Subject: Stack jumps from top level to palette
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bb2dc8fb82e6@[69.19.172.99]>
Message-ID: <20030706133726.25650.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
> 
> Jan,
> 
> I was about to reply that I have been resetting the
> mode to toplevel 
> every time it jumped to palette mode, perhaps a
> couple of dozen 
> times--every time I changed cards. I was making the
> change from the 
> pop up contextual sensitive menu
> (command-control-shift-click on the 
> Mac.)
> 
> But I thought I would first follow your advice
> literally and so I set 
> the style to toplevel in the message box. Eureka!
> This time it stuck. 
> It turns out that using the menu palette is
> ephemeral. It only 
> changes the mode temporarily. The mode reverts back
> to palette after 
> command 3 to go to the next card.
> 
> Very odd.
> 
> Thank you Jan.
> 
> Jim
> 

Hi Jim,

It's not abnormal if you track down how that popup
menu actually works : it executes a 'toplevel' command
(or 'modal' or 'modeless' or 'palette')


From jhurley at infostations.com  Sun Jul  6 09:45:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sun Jul  6 09:45:00 2003
Subject: Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <200307041603.MAA10105@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307041603.MAA10105@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bb2de2176932@[69.19.171.36]>

>
>Message: 4
>From: miscdas at boxfrog.com
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Subject: Re: Game Available for Test
>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 11:39:30 -0500
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>Jim Hurley writes:
>[snip]
>>  Unfortunately this works only on the Mac. I need to line up rows of
>>  letters and numbers and that requires a uniformly spaced font--monospaced.
>>  I didn't see one that works on my PC. It looks like Georgia is the only
>>  monospaced font but it is illegible at 24 point size.
>>
>==============
>Did you try Courier New font? I beleive that it is installed with the OS.
>Geogia must be some third-party font so probably won't be found on many
>systems. So unless it is embedded in your app, it won't work anyway.
>
>miscdas
>


miscdas,

Thanks. I overlooked Courier. It doesn't work quite as well as Monaco 
but it is certainly readable. So the following should work on both 
the PC and the Mac. In the message box run:

  go url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CryptDivisionCourier.rev"

Jim

P.S. How would you embed a font into a stack?



From ttasovac at Princeton.EDU  Sun Jul  6 10:28:00 2003
From: ttasovac at Princeton.EDU (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Sun Jul  6 10:28:00 2003
Subject: Bugzilla search
Message-ID: <5309793A-AFC5-11D7-A612-000393D60E0C@princeton.edu>

I cannot perform any search function in the Runrev bugzilla database on 
Mac OS 10.2.6 with either Safari or IE -- I always get a javascript 
error of some kind.  It seems to be a known issue with Bugzilla -- but 
what are we to do until it gest fixed?  How are we supposed to search 
the database to see if a bug has already been reported?

All best,
Toma



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Sun Jul  6 12:17:00 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Sun Jul  6 12:17:00 2003
Subject: Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bb2de2176932@[69.19.171.36]> 
References: <200307041603.MAA10105@www.runrev.com>
            <a05210601bb2de2176932@[69.19.171.36]>
Message-ID: <20030706170952.49683.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Jim Hurley writes: 

> 
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> From: miscdas at boxfrog.com
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Subject: Re: Game Available for Test
>> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 11:39:30 -0500
>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
>> 
>> Jim Hurley writes:
>> [snip]
>>>  Unfortunately this works only on the Mac. I need to line up rows of
>>> letters and numbers and that requires a uniformly spaced 
>>> font--monospaced.
>>> I didn't see one that works on my PC. It looks like Georgia is the only
>>>  monospaced font but it is illegible at 24 point size. 
>>> 
>> ==============
>> Did you try Courier New font? I beleive that it is installed with the OS.
>> Geogia must be some third-party font so probably won't be found on many
>> systems. So unless it is embedded in your app, it won't work anyway. 
>> 
>> miscdas 
>> 
>  
> 
> miscdas, 
> 
> Thanks. I overlooked Courier. It doesn't work quite as well as Monaco but 
> it is certainly readable. So the following should work on both the PC and 
> the Mac. In the message box run: 
> 
>  go url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CryptDivisionCourier.rev" 
> 
> Jim 
> 
> P.S. How would you embed a font into a stack? 
> 
===========
Courier looks fine on WIN XP pro, MC 2.4.3 

Couldn't you use tabbed fields to get the proper alignment with any font? 

I don't think MC or Rev allow embedding fonts. You could do a work around by 
doing a screen capture of each numeral in the font you like. You need to be 
careful about the size and alignment of each captured image. Then use the 
images in place of numerals. 

miscdas 



From hef at fisiltd.co.uk  Sun Jul  6 12:23:00 2003
From: hef at fisiltd.co.uk (howard freeman)
Date: Sun Jul  6 12:23:00 2003
Subject: Software DB Demo.rev & MySQL
In-Reply-To: <200307061602.MAA15226@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307061602.MAA15226@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p05100301bb2e08123f5f@[192.168.0.5]>

For some reason I can't open this stack through the file open command 
under OS X (10.2.6) and when I open it under OS 9 the fields are 
spread all over the place. Anyone else had such a problem?

I've tried to access a MySQL db running under redhat 9 (which 
shouldn't be a problem) as root at root password but I can't get an ID. 
When I try using another user (not root) I still can't make a 
connection. I note that the include files I created to let web users 
use the db gives 'localhost' as the HOST parameter, and I believe I 
should use socket access instead - how do I do that??

Thanks

Howard


From mfitz53 at comcast.net  Sun Jul  6 12:24:01 2003
From: mfitz53 at comcast.net (Michael)
Date: Sun Jul  6 12:24:01 2003
Subject: Mirroing an image
Message-ID: <2489360248da8f.248da8f2489360@icomcast.net>


Is it possible to set the angle of an image to 180 without turning it 
upside down? A horizontal flip is what I am hoping to find.
Thanks
mike fitz



From mfitz53 at comcast.net  Sun Jul  6 12:33:00 2003
From: mfitz53 at comcast.net (Michael)
Date: Sun Jul  6 12:33:00 2003
Subject: Substacks and "Saving As"
Message-ID: <24198dd2417ed1.2417ed124198dd@icomcast.net>

I have a stack that has several substacks. If I have the mainstack open 
and want to save a backup, does "Save As" make copies of all of the 
substacks as well? When doing so, would this not create a problem with 
duplicate names? Sorry if this sounds dumb, but I am trying to head off 
any extra headaches with my little project.
thanks
mike fitz





From jhurley at infostations.com  Sun Jul  6 12:47:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sun Jul  6 12:47:00 2003
Subject: : Re: Stack jumps from top level to palette
In-Reply-To: <200307061601.MAA15199@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307061601.MAA15199@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bb2e0abbf582@[69.19.171.36]>

>
>--- Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
>(snip)
>  > It turns out that using the menu palette is
>>  ephemeral. It only
>>  changes the mode temporarily. The mode reverts back
>>  to palette after
>>  command 3 to go to the next card.
>  >
>>  Very odd.
>>
>>  Thank you Jan.
>>
>>  Jim
>>

Jan Schenkel worte:

>Hi Jim,
>
>It's not abnormal if you track down how that popup
>menu actually works : it executes a 'toplevel' command
>(or 'modal' or 'modeless' or 'palette')
>
>>From the Transcript dictionary entry for 'go' :
>----
>Important!  The style of the stack, if it is anything
>other than &#147;topLevel&#148;, overrides any mode
>you specify in a go command. For example, if you open
>a stack using the statement go stack "Some Stack" as
>modeless, and the style of &#147;Some Stack&#148; is
>set to &#147;palette&#148;, it opens as a palette
>rather than a modeless dialog box, ignoring the mode
>you specified.

As if I didn't have enough troubles learning transcript without it 
ignoring me. :-)
I think I'll ignore it for the rest of the day and watch some  Wimbledon.

Jim

>----
>
>Hope this helped,
>
>Jan Schenkel.


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul  6 12:57:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul  6 12:57:00 2003
Subject: Bugzilla search
In-Reply-To: <5309793A-AFC5-11D7-A612-000393D60E0C@princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <304D8405-AFDA-11D7-A149-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 6, 2003, at 09:20 AM, Toma Tasovac wrote:

> I cannot perform any search function in the Runrev bugzilla database 
> on Mac OS 10.2.6 with either Safari or IE -- I always get a javascript 
> error of some kind.  It seems to be a known issue with Bugzilla -- but 
> what are we to do until it gest fixed?  How are we supposed to search 
> the database to see if a bug has already been reported?

I'm on OS X and I use Netscape for Bugzilla.

Dar Scott

******************************************************************
   Dar Scott Consulting     Programming Services     dsc at swcp.com
******************************************************************



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Jul  6 13:18:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun Jul  6 13:18:01 2003
Subject: Mirroing an image
In-Reply-To: <2489360248da8f.248da8f2489360@icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <36AEEC64-AFDD-11D7-8B44-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Michael,

> Is it possible to set the angle of an image to 180 without turning it
> upside down? A horizontal flip is what I am hoping to find.
> Thanks
> mike fitz

please don't laugh, but did you try:

...
flip img 1 horizontal
...

Surprise, surprise :-D
See the dox...


Have fun...


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Jul  6 13:20:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun Jul  6 13:20:00 2003
Subject: Substacks and "Saving As"
In-Reply-To: <24198dd2417ed1.2417ed124198dd@icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <76079DAF-AFDD-11D7-8B44-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Michael,

> I have a stack that has several substacks. If I have the mainstack open
> and want to save a backup, does "Save As" make copies of all of the
> substacks as well?

Yes.

> When doing so, would this not create a problem with
> duplicate names?

Yes, but the engine will leave that problem to you :-)

> Sorry if this sounds dumb, but I am trying to head off
> any extra headaches with my little project.
> thanks
> mike fitz

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Jul  6 13:23:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sun Jul  6 13:23:00 2003
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <4A00EC20-AFDE-11D7-82C7-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hello,

Working on Mac OSX 10.2.6 FR and Rev 2.0.1

I have a problem I didn't know with Rev 1.1.1

the command : "create folder"

1) works fine when I create a folder
BUT
2) doesn't work if the new created folder has a diacritical char

for example :

create folder "../test" works fine


create folder "../r?p?tition" doesn't work  (if I write  "repetition" 
(without the "?") it's good)


what to do ?????


Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Jul  6 13:30:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sun Jul  6 13:30:01 2003
Subject: Create folder
Message-ID: <38AB1E7E-AFDF-11D7-82C7-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hello,



OOPS


I was in a hurry in my previous mail : I didn't write a title/
Here it is ...


Working on Mac OSX 10.2.6 FR and Rev 2.0.1

I have a problem I didn't know with Rev 1.1.1

the command : "create folder"

1) works fine when I create a folder
BUT
2) doesn't work if the new created folder has a diacritical char

for example :

create folder "../test" works fine


create folder "../r?p?tition" doesn't work  (if I write  "repetition" 
(without the "?") it's good)


what to do ?????
How can I create a folder with french chars ???????

thank you for your help...


Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul  6 14:51:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul  6 14:51:00 2003
Subject: Open driver?
In-Reply-To: <BB2DB813.222%chripa@aon.at>
Message-ID: <1A3CACF7-AFEA-11D7-B156-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 6, 2003, at 03:27 AM, Christoph Pastl wrote:

> The "open driver" command does not work.
> I used many different names for the drivername, but no success.
> (I took the drivername which appears in the Apple System Profiler too.)

I have been tinkering with a Keyspan usb-to-serial adaptor, today.  I 
have not been able to open this with Mac OS 9 and Revolution 2.0.1.

I have heard tales of others who have not been able to open 
usb-to-serial on Mac OS 9 and after a while have given up.

I have also experimented with 'open file' but it is hard to tell 
success, because I always get empty for the result.  I expect I will 
find that I have created all kinds of files.

I think some people have opened "modem" and "printer" (or is it 
"modem:" and "printer:"?).  If you can somehow force a name change, 
maybe that will work.


> The reason I know that my USB board is "visible" for the MacOS is,
> that I can request its name using AppleScript. (With the "SerialPort 
> osax")
> I can also send data to my module using this osax.

I'm not very AppleScript savvy.  How can I get this name?  Can I use 
'do ... as AppleScript'?


I am curious about this evaluation board.

Dar Scott


******************************************************************
   Dar Scott Consulting     Programming Services     dsc at swcp.com
******************************************************************



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Jul  6 16:27:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sun Jul  6 16:27:00 2003
Subject: Script debug mode
Message-ID: <F47FE484-AFF7-11D7-9BBF-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hello,



Is it normal that when I ask the "script edit mode" item in the debug 
menu, it takes about 1/2 hour to toggle ?????


Thank you for your help.


Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From jeanne at runrev.com  Sun Jul  6 16:42:00 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun Jul  6 16:42:00 2003
Subject: Stack jumps from top level to palette
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bb2dc8fb82e6@[69.19.172.99]>
References: <200307060739.DAA02581@www.runrev.com>
 <200307060739.DAA02581@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <v0313031cbb2de3eb3309@[158.252.223.194]>

At 6:04 AM -0700 7/6/03, Jim Hurley wrote:
>But I thought I would first follow your advice literally and so I set
>the style to toplevel in the message box. Eureka! This time it stuck.
>It turns out that using the menu palette is ephemeral. It only
>changes the mode temporarily. The mode reverts back to palette after
>command 3 to go to the next card.

The contextual menu doesn't set the style property; it uses the commands
(toplevel, modeless, modal, palette) to redisplay the window in the desired
style. (It assumes you want to make a temporary change for editing, not to
lock the stack to a particular style.)

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From Cubist at aol.com  Sun Jul  6 16:47:01 2003
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Sun Jul  6 16:47:01 2003
Subject: Game Available for Test
Message-ID: <1ea.c9839a6.2c39f136@aol.com>

sez jhurley at infostations.com:
>How would you embed a font into a stack?
   I don't think you *would* do that. It's possible to do it on the Mac side, 
thanks to Mac files having resource forks, but it's not possible on any other 
platform, as far as I can tell. Thus, I'd bet that Rev can't do it *at all*, 
on *any* platform.
   What you *could* do is make yourself a preOpenStack handler that gets a 
list of all the user's installed fonts -- see also: the fontNames function -- 
and does something *if and only if* one of your stack's fonts *isn't* installed. 
"Does something" could mean putting up a dialog box to warn the user that 
some things won't look nice; it could mean warning the user about the font 
problem, giving instructions on how to solve it, and shutting down; it could mean a 
lot of different things...


From mfitz53 at comcast.net  Sun Jul  6 16:51:00 2003
From: mfitz53 at comcast.net (Michael)
Date: Sun Jul  6 16:51:00 2003
Subject: How to handle moveStopped?
Message-ID: <24a8c1a24a2905.24a290524a8c1a@icomcast.net>

 I am moving an object to the ponts of a curved graphic. If I read the 
docs right, a moveStopped message is sent to the object moved upon 
completion of the move.
 I have put the following into the script of the graphic being moved:
on moveStopped
if grc"red" is within the rect of btn mike fitz"rube" then beep
end moveStopped

The move completes and ...no beep.

Any ideas?
 mike fitz



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul  6 17:02:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul  6 17:02:01 2003
Subject: How to handle moveStopped?
In-Reply-To: <24a8c1a24a2905.24a290524a8c1a@icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <74316DF3-AFFC-11D7-B156-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 6, 2003, at 03:41 PM, Michael wrote:

> on moveStopped
   beep
> if grc"red" is within the rect of btn mike fitz"rube" then beep
> end moveStopped

Do you get at least one beep with this change?

Dar Scott



******************************************************************
   Dar Scott Consulting     Programming Services     dsc at swcp.com
******************************************************************



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Jul  6 17:33:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Sun Jul  6 17:33:00 2003
Subject: Open driver?
In-Reply-To: <1030707073815.3f0896c7.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.59101@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <BCB36EC5-B000-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Chris,

It depends whether your USB interface mimics a printer port. If it does 
(like port 1 on Keyspan or similar adapters), then you can connect 
perfectly. If it uses another name, then I don't know whether you can 
do it at all in Transcript - you may have to stick to AppleScript. For 
testing purposes, you might like to try my Serial test stack which is 
available on my web site.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 07:38  am, Christoph Pastl wrote:

> Hello!
>
> I?m using RR 2.0 on a PowerMac G4/400 with Mac OS 9.1.
> I want to develop a program which connects to a USB interface
> (an evaluation board). This USB board looks like a serial port for the 
> Mac.
> But: I don?t know how to connect to this hardware with RR.
> The "open driver" command does not work.
> I used many different names for the drivername, but no success.
> (I took the drivername which appears in the Apple System Profiler too.)
>
> The reason I know that my USB board is "visible" for the MacOS is,
> that I can request its name using AppleScript. (With the "SerialPort 
> osax")
> I can also send data to my module using this osax.
>
> How can I connect to my virtual serial port?
>
>
> Chris




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Jul  6 17:47:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Sun Jul  6 17:47:00 2003
Subject: Software DB Demo.rev & MySQL
In-Reply-To: <1030707073316.3f08959c.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.58834@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <3F79DAB2-B001-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Howard,

localhost is what you use if the MySQL server is running on your own 
computer. If it is on a remote computer, then you need to know the IP 
address. You shouldn't need to use sockets directly. Rev handles all 
that stuff for you in the database routines.

Have a look at the 2 MySQL stacks available on my web site. I have used 
them to connect to local and remote servers without any problems.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 07:33  am, howard freeman wrote:

> For some reason I can't open this stack through the file open command 
> under OS X (10.2.6) and when I open it under OS 9 the fields are 
> spread all over the place. Anyone else had such a problem?
>
> I've tried to access a MySQL db running under redhat 9 (which 
> shouldn't be a problem) as root at root password but I can't get an ID. 
> When I try using another user (not root) I still can't make a 
> connection. I note that the include files I created to let web users 
> use the db gives 'localhost' as the HOST parameter, and I believe I 
> should use socket access instead - how do I do that??
>
> Thanks
>
> Howard




From hef at fisiltd.co.uk  Sun Jul  6 18:28:00 2003
From: hef at fisiltd.co.uk (howard freeman)
Date: Sun Jul  6 18:28:00 2003
Subject: Software DB Demo.rev & MySQL
In-Reply-To: <200307062151.RAA23800@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307062151.RAA23800@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p05100301bb2e5dd966ac@[192.168.0.5]>

Hi Sarah nad list
Thanks for the stacks - I picked them up and tried them with no luck: 
I get a Rev error of (60) saying Rev can't connect to the MySQL 
server. However, MySQL is happily serving tot he web just fine. I 
used the MySQL root password and the user password, with the same 
result. It is possible that the port that MySQL works through, 3306, 
is blocked by the firewall, so I'll just have to get it opened and 
see if things work better.

If it's the firewall that's stopping things then I'll report back. 
One other point (this addressed to Rev authors) is that finding out 
about the use of the MySQL commands would have been a lot easier if 
they had been documented as a group rather than individually.

Howard

At 5:51 pm -0400 6/7/03, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>Message: 18
>Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:29:03 +1000
>From: Sarah <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
>Subject: Re: Software DB Demo.rev & MySQL
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>Hi Howard,
>
>localhost is what you use if the MySQL server is running on your own
>computer. If it is on a remote computer, then you need to know the IP
>address. You shouldn't need to use sockets directly. Rev handles all
>that stuff for you in the database routines.
>
>Have a look at the 2 MySQL stacks available on my web site. I have used
>them to connect to local and remote servers without any problems.
>
>Cheers,
>Sarah
>sarahr at genesearch.com.au
>http://www.troz.net/Rev/



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Jul  6 18:56:26 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Sun Jul  6 18:56:26 2003
Subject: [ANN] libSMTP v1.5.0
Message-ID: <200307062349.TAA05699@bright.unitz.ca>

well, i finally got around to getting it finished and
released, so here it is.. libSMTP v1.5.0

- plain text messages
- html messages (with inline/embedded images)
- file attachments
- smtp authentication

have fun
-Sean

http://shaosean.tk/


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Jul  6 19:08:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Sun Jul  6 19:08:00 2003
Subject: Software DB Demo.rev & MySQL
In-Reply-To: <1030707092419.3f08afa3.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.59550@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <06993658-B00E-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

One more idea Howard. As you say, it may be firewall setting, but it 
could also be a MySQL permission setting. As I understand it, when you 
set up permissions (using GRANT), you have to give a domain, IP address 
or range where that person will be logging in from. I wonder could that 
be the problem.

Sarah

On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 09:24  am, howard freeman wrote:

> Hi Sarah nad list
> Thanks for the stacks - I picked them up and tried them with no luck: 
> I get a Rev error of (60) saying Rev can't connect to the MySQL 
> server. However, MySQL is happily serving tot he web just fine. I used 
> the MySQL root password and the user password, with the same result. 
> It is possible that the port that MySQL works through, 3306, is 
> blocked by the firewall, so I'll just have to get it opened and see if 
> things work better.
>
> If it's the firewall that's stopping things then I'll report back. One 
> other point (this addressed to Rev authors) is that finding out about 
> the use of the MySQL commands would have been a lot easier if they had 
> been documented as a group rather than individually.
>
> Howard
>
> At 5:51 pm -0400 6/7/03, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>> Message: 18
>> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:29:03 +1000
>> From: Sarah <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
>> Subject: Re: Software DB Demo.rev & MySQL
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>
>> Hi Howard,
>>
>> localhost is what you use if the MySQL server is running on your own
>> computer. If it is on a remote computer, then you need to know the IP
>> address. You shouldn't need to use sockets directly. Rev handles all
>> that stuff for you in the database routines.
>>
>> Have a look at the 2 MySQL stacks available on my web site. I have 
>> used
>> them to connect to local and remote servers without any problems.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Sarah
>> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
>> http://www.troz.net/Rev/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From jhurley at infostations.com  Sun Jul  6 20:01:01 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sun Jul  6 20:01:01 2003
Subject: Game Available for Test etc.
In-Reply-To: <200307062150.RAA23679@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307062150.RAA23679@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210603bb2e6fabaca9@[69.19.171.36]>

>
>  > miscdas,
>>
>>  Thanks. I overlooked Courier. It doesn't work quite as well as Monaco but
>>  it is certainly readable. So the following should work on both the PC and
>>  the Mac. In the message box run:
>>
>>   go url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CryptDivisionCourier.rev"
>>
>>  Jim
>>
>  > P.S. How would you embed a font into a stack?
>>
>===========
>Courier looks fine on WIN XP pro, MC 2.4.3
>
>Couldn't you use tabbed fields to get the proper alignment with any font?
>
>I don't think MC or Rev allow embedding fonts. You could do a work around by
>doing a screen capture of each numeral in the font you like. You need to be
>careful about the size and alignment of each captured image. Then use the
>images in place of numerals.
>
>miscdas

miscdas,

I don't  think I can make the tabstops work. Because the puzzle 
numbers (divisor and dividend) are randomly generated, I need to 
right justify all fields (the number of digits below could be 1,2,3,4 
or 5). Tabs don't line the letters or numbers very well. Even with 
left justification it isn't perfect. A thin "I" will line up on the 
tabstops. Its *center* will be displaced slightly from the center of 
an "X" above.

In any event, your suggestion of using Courier is probably a good 
universal solution. It is common to almost all computers--certainly 
Macs and PCs.

Thanks,

Jim

>
>Message: 14
>From: Cubist at aol.com
>Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 17:40:06 EDT
>Subject: Re: Game Available for Test
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>sez jhurley at infostations.com:
>>How would you embed a font into a stack?
>    I don't think you *would* do that. It's possible to do it on the Mac side,
>thanks to Mac files having resource forks, but it's not possible on any other
>platform, as far as I can tell. Thus, I'd bet that Rev can't do it *at all*,
>on *any* platform.
>    What you *could* do is make yourself a preOpenStack handler that gets a
>list of all the user's installed fonts -- see also: the fontNames function --
>and does something *if and only if* one of your stack's fonts 
>*isn't* installed.
>"Does something" could mean putting up a dialog box to warn the user that
>some things won't look nice; it could mean warning the user about the font
>problem, giving instructions on how to solve it, and shutting down; 
>it could mean a
>lot of different things...
>
>--__


Cubist,

Quite so. I suspect that most computers will have Courier. In any 
event, I haven't any plans to distribute the stack beyond this list.

Thanks,

Jim

>Jeanne DeVoteo wrote:
>
>The contextual menu doesn't set the style property; it uses the commands
>(toplevel, modeless, modal, palette) to redisplay the window in the desired
>style. (It assumes you want to make a temporary change for editing, not to
>lock the stack to a particular style.)

Jeanne,

Yikes. This is probably not obvious to many users. And I doubt the 
documentation would help--it is not the sort of thing one would 
consider looking up.

Is there some language one could use in the menu that would suggest 
that this is a temporary change in mode for the purpose of editing? 
Perhaps "Stack Mode (Edit only)"

Thanks,

Jim


From jhj at jhj.com  Sun Jul  6 21:56:00 2003
From: jhj at jhj.com (jerry j)
Date: Sun Jul  6 21:56:00 2003
Subject: kodekraker
In-Reply-To: <200307051601.MAA24144@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9DF6F898-B025-11D7-A865-003065B58254@jhj.com>

> On 7/4/03 7:04 AM, Ken Norris wrote:
>
>> However, ALL the scripts are available in the inspector (nothing is 
>> locked).
>
> The first version I retrieved was locked. The one I downloaded today is
> open. I think Scott has deprotected it for us. Thanks Scott, it's 
> always
> nice to see how you accomplish your magic.

Yes indeedy! My only comment is that it is difficult to distinguish 
between the yellow, orange and red colors. I have wasted moves more 
than a few times confusing them in past attempts. I'm using a Pismo G3 
PowerBook (late 2000).

Nice work! Now, can I have my afternoon back? (8p)

Jerry



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul  6 22:32:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul  6 22:32:00 2003
Subject: Open driver?
In-Reply-To: <BCB36EC5-B000-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <934D9BD6-B02A-11D7-B797-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 6, 2003, at 04:25 PM, Sarah wrote:

> It depends whether your USB interface mimics a printer port. If it 
> does (like port 1 on Keyspan or similar adapters), then you can 
> connect perfectly.

This might not be the case on my Keyspan single port high speed 
adaptor, USA-19QW, or else I have something blocking it.

If I try this:

open file "printer:" for binary read

I get empty in the result.  (And zero in the sysError.)

(I open for read to avoid creating files and to get a good result.  I 
think.)

But the RTS and DSR lines don't light up on my little gadget as they do 
when the Keyspan is really opened.

Moreover, I get empty in the result even when the Keyspan is not 
plugged in.  I don't have a "printer:" serial port on my Blue & White 
G3 with Mac OS 9.2 unless there is some virtual dummy set up by the OS.

Dar Scott





From jeanne at runrev.com  Sun Jul  6 22:52:00 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun Jul  6 22:52:00 2003
Subject: Software DB Demo.rev & MySQL
In-Reply-To: <p05100301bb2e5dd966ac@[192.168.0.5]>
References: <200307062151.RAA23800@www.runrev.com>
 <200307062151.RAA23800@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <v0313031fbb2e686811b8@[158.252.223.194]>

At 4:20PM -0700 7/6/03, howard freeman wrote:
>One other point (this addressed to Rev authors) is that finding out
>about the use of the MySQL commands would have been a lot easier if
>they had been documented as a group rather than individually.

Help menu > Transcript Dictionary, then choose "Database Library" from the
Show menu at the top of the window.

All the commands and functions are also listed in "About connecting to and
using SQL databases", by category.

They're also all listed in the See Also list for that topic.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul  6 23:09:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul  6 23:09:00 2003
Subject: Open driver?
In-Reply-To: <934D9BD6-B02A-11D7-B797-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <B102DF58-B02F-11D7-B797-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 6, 2003, at 09:24 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>> It depends whether your USB interface mimics a printer port. If it 
>> does (like port 1 on Keyspan or similar adapters), then you can 
>> connect perfectly.
>
> This might not be the case on my Keyspan single port high speed 
> adaptor, USA-19QW, or else I have something blocking it.

I learned a little more for my case.  Due to a mental block on my part 
I didn't see the checkbox to have the Keyspan adaptor emulate the 
printer port in Keyspan Serial Assistant control panel.  (BTW, for you 
Windows PC folks, there are two classical serial ports on the Mac and 
one is named printer; this is not related to the parallel port on 
Windows PCs.)  I set that up and now an open for "printer:" takes a 
whole second to fail (syserror=-98).

So, on my Blue & White Mac OS 9.2 with no printer port that I know of:

Keyspan not plugged in--       open file "printer:" indicates success
Keyspan plugged in--           open file "printer:" indicates success
                                   but it does not open Keyspan
Keyspan in & set as printer--  open file "printer:" indicates error 
after 1 s

Dar Scott

******************************************************************
   Dar Scott Consulting     Programming Services     dsc at swcp.com
******************************************************************



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Jul  6 23:12:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Sun Jul  6 23:12:00 2003
Subject: Open driver?
In-Reply-To: <1030707133208.3f08e9b8.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.60288@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <DD90D061-B02F-11D7-99DE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

>> It depends whether your USB interface mimics a printer port. If it 
>> does (like port 1 on Keyspan or similar adapters), then you can 
>> connect perfectly.
>
> This might not be the case on my Keyspan single port high speed 
> adaptor, USA-19QW, or else I have something blocking it.
>
I think the single-port adapter does NOT emulate a printer port, only 
the Keyspan Twin adapter does this for one of it's ports. The single 
port adapters use the Communications ToolBox, rather than emulating a 
printer port. There are CTB XCMDs & XFCNs for HyperCard. I wonder if 
would they work in Rev? If you wanted to try and can't find those 
Xthings, I could send them to you.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Jul  6 23:43:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Sun Jul  6 23:43:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] New stacks at my web site
Message-ID: <64A2A352-B034-11D7-8162-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi everyone,

I have posted a few new stacks at my web site: http://www.troz.net/Rev/

MySQL.rev.gz - simple client for MySQL databses. Allows any command to 
be sent to a MySQL server with the result displayed in simple text 
format.
KeyCoder.rev.gz - utility to display key codes and rawKey codes for any 
key pressed. Useful to checking what you need to check for in any 
rawKey handlers.
ResourceCopier.rev.gz - stack that allows you to copy and delete 
resources (sounds, icons, XCMDs, XFCNs) from any file. Mac only.

Also some recent upgrades:

MySQL tests.rev.gz - stack to allow testing of connection to MySQL 
databases.
FunKey.rev.gz - plugin that allows you to attach scripts to the 
function keys. Sample scripts are included but the scripts are fully 
editable. Minor improvements, fixed typos and changed when I realised 
that Rev only supports function keys 1 to 12. Also some new example 
scripts.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/




From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Jul  7 01:31:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon Jul  7 01:31:00 2003
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <97F19862-B043-11D7-B4F5-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Hello list


I've send questions earlier without answers
So I come again...

1?
Working on Mac OSX 10.2.6 FR and Rev 2.0.1

I have a problem I didn't know with Rev 1.1.1

the command : "create folder"

1) works fine when I create a folder
BUT
2) doesn't work if the new created folder has a diacritical char

for example :

create folder "../test" works fine


create folder "../r?p?tition" doesn't work  (if I write  "repetition" 
(without the "?") it's good)


what to do ?????
How can I create a folder with french chars ???????


2?
Is it normal that when I ask the "script edit mode" item in the 
develpment menu, it takes about 1/2 hour to toggle ?????
I have this problem with a big stack (a main stack with many 
substacks), no problems with smaller stacks


Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Jul  7 01:43:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon Jul  7 01:43:00 2003
Subject: Image problems
In-Reply-To: <200307022314.TAA25068@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2E6393.1B46%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

I imported a pict image and Rev asked if I wanted to convert it, so I chose
to convert to a PNG image.

Nothing happened. Why not?

I tried again, but this time I left it as a Pict (Mac only) image. It
imported OK, but Inks refuse to work. Why not?

How do I fix these problems?

Mac G4, OS 9.2.1

TIA,
Ken N.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Jul  7 01:49:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon Jul  7 01:49:01 2003
Subject: Image problems
In-Reply-To: <BB2E6393.1B46%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BB2E6420.D5DC%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Ken Norris wrote:

> I imported a pict image and Rev asked if I wanted to convert it, so I chose
> to convert to a PNG image.
> 
> Nothing happened. Why not?
> 
> I tried again, but this time I left it as a Pict (Mac only) image. It
> imported OK, but Inks refuse to work. Why not?
> 
> How do I fix these problems?

Can you convert the PICT to PNG/GIF/JPEG before importing?

Regards, 

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Mon Jul  7 03:24:00 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Mon Jul  7 03:24:00 2003
Subject: Bugzilla search
In-Reply-To: <304D8405-AFDA-11D7-A149-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <21B55A23-B053-11D7-B99F-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Sunday, Jul 6, 2003, at 19:49 Europe/Vienna, Dar Scott wrote:

> Bugzilla search
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>
> On Sunday, July 6, 2003, at 09:20 AM, Toma Tasovac wrote:
>
>> I cannot perform any search function in the Runrev bugzilla database 
>> on Mac OS 10.2.6 with either Safari or IE -- I always get a 
>> javascript error of some kind.  It seems to be a known issue with 
>> Bugzilla -- but what are we to do until it gest fixed?  How are we 
>> supposed to search the database to see if a bug has already been 
>> reported?

It works for me with Camino too. But I could not make a query or 
report, because its to complicated for me...
Seems that I need a special training before I can use that =;(
What should I do now..?
Thanks for tips...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Jul  7 03:26:01 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon Jul  7 03:26:01 2003
Subject: Image problems
Message-ID: <web-305368791@mail.maclaunch.com>

The solution is remarkably simple: don't import PICT
images!  Convert them to JPEG or GIF
first, then import them.

Love, Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Jul  7 03:28:01 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon Jul  7 03:28:01 2003
Subject: GIF licence ???
Message-ID: <web-305368806@mail.maclaunch.com>

As the copyright on Compuserv's GIF codec is about to
expire I'd like to know if RR are planning to release the
code to export images from stacks in GIF format as a FREE
downloadable?

Cheekily yours, Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Jul  7 03:30:02 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon Jul  7 03:30:02 2003
Subject: Image converters
Message-ID: <web-305368842@mail.maclaunch.com>

If you have a problem converting images on a Macintosh
(why???) the place to look for image converters is

http://www.versiontracker.com

if you are poor / tight-fisted like me there are quite a
few FREE widgets around that can do the trick.

Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Mon Jul  7 04:02:01 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Mon Jul  7 04:02:01 2003
Subject: Newbies board gone?
In-Reply-To: <200307031854.OAA18017@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2F01F7.A23%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi List,

I?m back from a few days off in Switzerland and had my mailbox filled with
quite a few mails concerning the Revolution Newbies Board, hosted by Mark
Paris, that has vanished from the Web.
I tried to contact him off list before my vacation (Are you lurking Mark? I
hope you are well.), but didn?t recive an answer yet. If there?s anything I
can do to help bringing the Newbies board up again I would be glad to do so.
(Still got some MBs left on my Server)

Regards,

Malte



From tsj at unimelb.edu.au  Mon Jul  7 05:34:01 2003
From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Mon Jul  7 05:34:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] libSMTP v1.5.0
In-Reply-To: <200307062349.TAA05699@bright.unitz.ca>
Message-ID: <3F547625-B065-11D7-879F-000393AEC28C@unimelb.edu.au>

On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 09:49 AM, Shao Sean wrote:

> well, i finally got around to getting it finished and
> released, so here it is.. libSMTP v1.5.0
>
> - plain text messages
> - html messages (with inline/embedded images)
> - file attachments
> - smtp authentication

Fabulous!

>
> have fun
> -Sean
>
> http://shaosean.tk/



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Jul  7 06:10:00 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon Jul  7 06:10:00 2003
Subject: Image Problems: Download available
Message-ID: <web-305370269@mail.maclaunch.com>

Dear All,
  Just uploaded a stack to my website:  IMAGE CONVERTER.REV
(soon to receive an Oscar for
originality in naming programs) - this will import various
image formats (including the MAC-specific PICT format) and
export them in JPEG or PNG format.

Download it, Play with it, Throw it away......

Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Mon Jul  7 08:16:00 2003
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Mon Jul  7 08:16:00 2003
Subject: Desktop icon in Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <DED107D2-AF2C-11D7-9FB8-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3FA6F99D-B07C-11D7-8F6B-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>

Hi Yves,

I suppose you mean "icns" file type.

Have you created a Thumbnail 32-bit icon in the file ?

Regards.

Thierry Arbellot.

On Saturday, Jul 5, 2003, at 23:08 Europe/Paris, Yves COPPE wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
> Can someone explain me how I can set a desktop icon to my app starting 
> from the stack Builder
>
> I've done a picture with "iconographer", save it as ics
>
> then in the step 3 of the builder, tab "mac OSX" I've chosen this 
> file...
>
> and my app has no icon at all !!!
>
>
> Thanks.
> Greetings.
> Yves COPPE
>
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
>
>
> Salutations.
> Yves COPPE
>
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From edgore at shinra.com  Mon Jul  7 08:40:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Mon Jul  7 08:40:00 2003
Subject: GIF licence ???
References: <web-305368806@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <002201c3448c$2b1d5a40$6501a8c0@ed>

I believe that the problem is that the patent still has another year to go
in the U.K. - since they are based there, I don't believe taht they can
distribute if for for, even in the U.S.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mathewson" <richmond at mail.maclaunch.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 1:20 AM
Subject: GIF licence ???


> As the copyright on Compuserv's GIF codec is about to
> expire I'd like to know if RR are planning to release the
> code to export images from stacks in GIF format as a FREE
> downloadable?
>
> Cheekily yours, Richmond Mathewson
>
> __________________________________________________
> See Mathewson's software at:
>
> http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
> http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
> __________________________________________________
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Great Macintosh Products
>  The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Jul  7 08:43:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon Jul  7 08:43:01 2003
Subject: Desktop icon in Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <3FA6F99D-B07C-11D7-8F6B-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <E432BC78-B07F-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le lundi, 7 juil 2003, ? 15:09 Europe/Brussels, Thierry Arbellot a 
?crit :

> Hi Yves,
>
> I suppose you mean "icns" file type.
>
> Have you created a Thumbnail 32-bit icon in the file ?
>
> Regards.
>
> Thierry Arbellot.
>
>
I will try with IconComposer from Apple and let you now.

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From ASGolub at dkhglaw.com  Mon Jul  7 08:57:00 2003
From: ASGolub at dkhglaw.com (Alan Golub)
Date: Mon Jul  7 08:57:00 2003
Subject: RevJournal is "Live"!
Message-ID: <BB2EF29A.2596%ASGolub@dkhglaw.com>

StoryCard Software LLC is pleased to announce that revJournal is now live at
http://www.revjournal.com.

After several months? work, and a frustrating weekend of spotty host
performance, the new online magazine, revJournal, is up and running. The
debut issue features a host of interesting articles, including:

In revTools: An exclusive excerpt from Dan Shafer?s forthcoming three-volume
eBook series, ?Scripting Revolution?

In revTalk: An interview with Revolution developer Sarah Reichelt

In revSchool: Not one, but TWO installments of our ongoing Revolution
tutorials

And more! We?re just getting started, so please visit the site for more
details and the latest developments.

Thanks to all who contributed their time and/or feedback in helping us with
our premiere launch.

We?re always looking for Revolution tidbits to post to the site, so please
contact publisher at revjournal.com with any news, reviews, or anything else of
interest to Revolution developers.

Regards,
Alan S. Golub
StoryCard Software LLC
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From shaosean at unitz.ca  Mon Jul  7 08:59:01 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Mon Jul  7 08:59:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] libSMTP v1.5.0
Message-ID: <200307071351.JAA15868@bright.unitz.ca>

> Fabulous!

thank you =)


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Jul  7 09:01:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon Jul  7 09:01:01 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
Message-ID: <59673F58-B082-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Hello list again

PLEASE HELP HELP HELP....

I've send questions earlier without answers
So I come again...

1?
Working on Mac OSX 10.2.6 FR and Rev 2.0.1

I have a problem I didn't know with Rev 1.1.1

the command : "create folder"

1) works fine when I create a folder
BUT
2) doesn't work if the new created folder has a diacritical char

for example :

create folder "../test" works fine


create folder "../r?p?tition" doesn't work  (if I write  "repetition" 
(without the "?") it's good)


what to do ?????
How can I create a folder with french chars ???????


2?
Is it normal that when I ask the "script edit mode" item in the 
develpment menu, it takes about 1/2 hour to toggle ?????
I have this problem with a big stack (a main stack with many 
substacks), no problems with smaller stacks

Now it's so serious I cannot toggle anymore When I ask "script edit 
mode", the rev appl "quit" and return to finder
But I can further use the stacks when I restart Rev and further write 
scripts but I cannot debug...



PLEASE HELP...

Thanks.

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Jul  7 09:37:00 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon Jul  7 09:37:00 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
Message-ID: <web-305372752@mail.maclaunch.com>

Cher Yves,
  DIACRITICS:  Vous avez un petit problem; nous sommes
ecossais (les developpeurs des Runtime Revolution et moi),
et n'avons pas des diacritiques dans nos langues (Anglais,
Ecossais, et langue de Galles) - et chaque european a le
problem de la dominance Americaine.

The easiest solution (!!!) is to use either Fontographer or
Fontlab to design a font where letters with diacritics are
stored in the first ASCII table (merde!).  If you would
like this tell me and I will make you a font like this.

Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Jul  7 09:56:00 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon Jul  7 09:56:00 2003
Subject: RevJournal is "Live"!
In-Reply-To: <BB2EF29A.2596%ASGolub@dkhglaw.com>
Message-ID: <003601c34496$c5c9b660$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

Well done, Alan! Looks like a winner! 
 
Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alan Golub
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 8:49 AM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Cc: Richard Gaskin
Subject: RevJournal is "Live"!


StoryCard Software LLC is pleased to announce that revJournal is now
live at http://www.revjournal.com.

After several months' work, and a frustrating weekend of spotty host
performance, the new online magazine, revJournal, is up and running. The
debut issue features a host of interesting articles, including:

In revTools: An exclusive excerpt from Dan Shafer's forthcoming
three-volume eBook series, "Scripting Revolution"

In revTalk: An interview with Revolution developer Sarah Reichelt

In revSchool: Not one, but TWO installments of our ongoing Revolution
tutorials

And more! We're just getting started, so please visit the site for more
details and the latest developments.

Thanks to all who contributed their time and/or feedback in helping us
with our premiere launch.

We're always looking for Revolution tidbits to post to the site, so
please contact publisher at revjournal.com with any news, reviews, or
anything else of interest to Revolution developers.

Regards,
Alan S. Golub
StoryCard Software LLC 

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From ASGolub at dkhglaw.com  Mon Jul  7 10:08:00 2003
From: ASGolub at dkhglaw.com (Alan Golub)
Date: Mon Jul  7 10:08:00 2003
Subject: RevJournal is "Live"!
In-Reply-To: <003601c34496$c5c9b660$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <BB2F0347.25B1%ASGolub@dkhglaw.com>

Thanks! Please keep us posted with any new developments of your own. Always
on the lookout for quick revNews stories!

Alan

On 7/7/03 10:47 AM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> Well done, Alan! Looks like a winner!
>  
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alan Golub
>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 8:49 AM
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Cc: Richard Gaskin
>> Subject: RevJournal is "Live"!
>> 
>> StoryCard Software LLC is pleased to announce that revJournal is now live at
>> http://www.revjournal.com.
>> 
>> After several months? work, and a frustrating weekend of spotty host
>> performance, the new online magazine, revJournal, is up and running. The
>> debut issue features a host of interesting articles, including:
>> 
>> In revTools: An exclusive excerpt from Dan Shafer?s forthcoming three-volume
>> eBook series, ?Scripting Revolution?
>> 
>> In revTalk: An interview with Revolution developer Sarah Reichelt
>> 
>> In revSchool: Not one, but TWO installments of our ongoing Revolution
>> tutorials
>> 
>> And more! We?re just getting started, so please visit the site for more
>> details and the latest developments.
>> 
>> Thanks to all who contributed their time and/or feedback in helping us with
>> our premiere launch.
>> 
>> We?re always looking for Revolution tidbits to post to the site, so please
>> contact publisher at revjournal.com with any news, reviews, or anything else of
>> interest to Revolution developers.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Alan S. Golub
>> StoryCard Software LLC
> 


-- 


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From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Jul  7 10:20:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon Jul  7 10:20:00 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <web-305372752@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <67A1B96D-B08D-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le lundi, 7 juil 2003, ? 15:29 Europe/Brussels, Mathewson a ?crit :

> Cher Yves,
>   DIACRITICS:  Vous avez un petit problem; nous sommes
> ecossais (les developpeurs des Runtime Revolution et moi),
> et n'avons pas des diacritiques dans nos langues (Anglais,
> Ecossais, et langue de Galles) - et chaque european a le
> problem de la dominance Americaine.
>
> The easiest solution (!!!) is to use either Fontographer or
> Fontlab to design a font where letters with diacritics are
> stored in the first ASCII table (merde!).  If you would
> like this tell me and I will make you a font like this.
>
> Richmond Mathewson
>
>

Hello

I think you don't understand my problem

when I use the command "create folder" and there is a diacritic char in 
the name of the folder, the folder isn't created.....!!!!
in Rev 1.1.1 well !!!!
why anymore in Rev 2.0.1 ???

It's very urgent to find a solution !!!!!!

Thanks.

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From Fred_D_Yocum at mail.mcc.org  Mon Jul  7 10:42:00 2003
From: Fred_D_Yocum at mail.mcc.org (Fred_D_Yocum at mail.mcc.org)
Date: Mon Jul  7 10:42:00 2003
Subject: RevJournal is "Live"!
Message-ID: <85256D5C.00559013.00@mail.mcc.org>

Congratulations !
http://www.revjournal.com. has just gone on my browser toolbar.

F D Yocum
Graphic Designer
Mennonite Central Committee





From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Mon Jul  7 12:07:00 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:07:00 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <200307060739.DAA02643@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2F73A8.1F7F%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

I am trying to do what Supercard do with the function...via. That is I want
that the function is evaluated by the script of the specified object.

E.g.:

In Supercard you can write :

 put getSomeData(1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar) via btn "MyButton" of \
   cd 10 of stack "someStack" into tMyResult

How to translate that into rev?

 -- does not work:
 send "get getSomeData(1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar)" to \
   btn "MyButton" of cd 10 of stack "someStack" into tMyResult
 put it into tMyResult

 -- does not work or dont give the expected result:
 get value("getSomeData(1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar)", \
   btn "MyButton" of cd 10 of stack "someStack")
 put it into tMyResult

 -- work around but not elegant:
 -- getSomeData is no more a function but a handler...
 call "getSomeData "1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar" of \
   btn "MyButton" of cd 10 of stack "someStack"
 put the result into tMyResult

Of course, putting the script of the target object in the message path is
some other possibility but I would exclude this for implementation reason.

Maybe the "function via object" a feature for the wish list?

Or did I miss something?

Joel

> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 06:40:44 -0700
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> From: "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <jeanne at runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> 
> At 1:30 AM -0700 7/5/03, Jo?l Guillod wrote:
>>>> Is there an equivalent to the following Supercard statement?
>>>> 
>>>> functionName([paramList]) via object
>> 
>> YES I did but it does not behave as described in the docs, only the "me"
>> keyword is related to the optional object param.
> 
> 
> What exactly are you trying to do?
> 
> --
> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
> Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
> http://www.runrev.com/



From dluther at myscratchdisk.com  Mon Jul  7 12:14:00 2003
From: dluther at myscratchdisk.com (Damon Luther)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:14:00 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1569 - 14 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200307051601.MAA24144@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C9948D36-AF58-11D7-90F7-003065A8434E@myscratchdisk.com>

It's a little weird when you get into this area..... One of the best 
ways to make Chapter Tracks in a Quicktime movie is to set cuePoints in 
an audio or video editor then save the file.  This puts a text track 
into the movie with all the start times for each chapter, but does not 
set them as chapter tracks. Then you can open the movie in Quicktime 
Pro and get movie properties and select the text track in the pulldown 
menu then select make Chapter tracks from the properties pulldown. It 
will want you do associate the new chapter tracks with either the video 
or audio tracks... choose either one and then save... BAM now the movie 
has chapter tracks. I've tried some of the Chapter Track editors out 
there, but they don't seem to create the desired results like the above 
method does.

Director works with chapter tracks using cuePoint statements. Director 
automatically reads the text track of the movie whether it's set to be 
chapters or not, and then allows you to navigate the chapters based on 
the cuePoints. iShell automatically shows chapter tracks as parameters 
in it's UI.

The cool thing about Chapter Tracks and cuePoints is that you can write 
scripts that are universal to any movie, allowing you to navigate 
forward and backwards and even stop without knowing exact times. Very 
handy and reusable. And way better than trying to read the text file 
into an array.... and then use them.

I'm new to Rev so i don't know much about callBacks... is there a good 
resource for this? do you think callbacks can be used in a similar 
manner????

any help would be great

-d


On Saturday, July 5, 2003, at 09:01  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

>> How do I navigate Quicktime Chapter tracks with Revolution.
>>
>> Is there a native way of navigating Quicktime Chapter Tracks with
>> revolution? or cuePoints? AppleScript, QTscript, Director, iShell,
>> and others all have way to navigate Chapter Tracks.  I'm looking
>> at Revolution as a cross-platform solution for current and future
>> projects that relies on the ability to navigate Chapter Tracks.....
>
> Chapter tracks and cuePoits are very different things.  Revolution 
> supports
> a wide variety of QT notifications, messages, and structures, so while 
> it
> doesn't currently support chapter tracks if going as far away from 
> that as
> cuePoints would work for you then maybe going just a little farther to 
> Rev's
> support for callbacks will provide what you need.
>
> Thinking this might make a good feature suggestion to submit, I was 
> hoping
> to find the documentation for Director and iShell with regard to 
> chapter
> track support to serve as a guide, but alas came up empty.  Where 
> should I
> look for that in those products?



From scott.rankin at hunterlink.net.au  Mon Jul  7 12:14:08 2003
From: scott.rankin at hunterlink.net.au (Scott Rankin)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:14:08 2003
Subject: re Dial via built in modem
Message-ID: <E69ECEDA-AF8A-11D7-9EC0-000A957C92E0@hunterlink.net.au>

Dear Bill,

I found your posting of Oct 19 last year when trying to solve the 
problem of dialing the internal modem via applescript (OS X).

Have you found a solution?

I haven't been able to find anything.

I want to be able to dial via the modem so that I can control telephone 
company network features which are activated by long strings of codes.


Scott



From David.Glasgow at calderstones.nhs.uk  Mon Jul  7 12:14:15 2003
From: David.Glasgow at calderstones.nhs.uk (Glasgow David)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:14:15 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
Message-ID: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B351BA57@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk>

Yes it looks fine indeed.

But......Jacqueline's comments make me worry that I don't understand passwords and locking like I thought.

The first thing I did was try to see how he did that lovely whizzing text.  How is it that I can browse and even copy all of the scripts? Is this not what you mean by "explore"?

Best wishes,

David Glasgow

Courses HTTP://www.i-Psych.co.uk 

 >
 >Like everything Scott writes, this one is very cool. He 
 >really creates 
 >gorgeous stuff. You won't be able to explore it though; it is 
 >password 
 >protected and the scripts are locked.
 >
 >-- 
 >Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
 >HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
 >


From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Mon Jul  7 12:19:01 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:19:01 2003
Subject: ODBC on MacOSX?
In-Reply-To: <200307070727.DAA31797@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2F7671.1F7F%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

I got a "revdberr,invalid database type" when calling:

   revOpenDatabase("ODBC",...)

I installed the last Complete MySQL package from Server Logistics and the
ODBC seems to work with the test application under Terminal.

After a long browse in the web, I have not found what's happening. MySQL
works just fine with the revOpenDatabase("mysql",...) but how can I set up
the ODBC so it actually works with Rev?

Thanks for helping!

Joel



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Jul  7 12:19:11 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:19:11 2003
Subject: Image problems
In-Reply-To: <200307070727.DAA31704@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2EF8A4.1B55%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Thanks Scott,

I still have a couple questions.

> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:41:20 -0700
> Subject: Re: Image problems
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
> 
> Recently, Ken Norris wrote:
> 
>> I imported a pict image and Rev asked if I wanted to convert it, so I chose
>> to convert to a PNG image.
>> 
>> Nothing happened. Why not?
>> 
>> I tried again, but this time I left it as a Pict (Mac only) image. It
>> imported OK, but Inks refuse to work. Why not?
>> 
>> How do I fix these problems?
> 
> Can you convert the PICT to PNG/GIF/JPEG before importing?
----------
Yes, but, then, what is the purpose of the convert dialog? Is it broken? A
known bug?

Do ink settings work only in PNG, GIF, or JPEG and _not_ PICT?

Ken N.



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Jul  7 12:37:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:37:00 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1569 - 14 msgs
In-Reply-To: <C9948D36-AF58-11D7-90F7-003065A8434E@myscratchdisk.com>
Message-ID: <9060EF0F-B0A0-11D7-9C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Damon,

> It's a little weird when you get into this area..... One of the best  
> ways to make Chapter Tracks in a Quicktime movie is to set cuePoints  
> in an audio or video editor then save the file.  This puts a text  
> track into the movie with all the start times for each chapter, but  
> does not set them as chapter tracks. Then you can open the movie in  
> Quicktime Pro and get movie properties and select the text track in  
> the pulldown menu then select make Chapter tracks from the properties  
> pulldown. It will want you do associate the new chapter tracks with  
> either the video or audio tracks... choose either one and then save...  
> BAM now the movie has chapter tracks. I've tried some of the Chapter  
> Track editors out there, but they don't seem to create the desired  
> results like the above method does.
>
> Director works with chapter tracks using cuePoint statements. Director  
> automatically reads the text track of the movie whether it's set to be  
> chapters or not, and then allows you to navigate the chapters based on  
> the cuePoints. iShell automatically shows chapter tracks as parameters  
> in it's UI.
>
> The cool thing about Chapter Tracks and cuePoints is that you can  
> write scripts that are universal to any movie, allowing you to  
> navigate forward and backwards and even stop without knowing exact  
> times. Very handy and reusable. And way better than trying to read the  
> text file into an array.... and then use them.
>
> I'm new to Rev so i don't know much about callBacks... is there a good  
> resource for this? do you think callbacks can be used in a similar  
> manner????
>
> any help would be great

take a look at this little stack:

The Mistery of the callbacks v1.0

You can download it at:

http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/ 
usercontributions.html

waaaaaaay doooooown the page :-)

That should get you started with "callbacks"

Drop a line if you need more info/assistance...

> -d

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Jul  7 12:43:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:43:01 2003
Subject: RevJournal is "Live"!
In-Reply-To: <200307071410.KAA07539@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2EFE46.1B56%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 7/7/03 10:10 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
Hello Alan,

> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:49:14 -0400
> Subject: RevJournal is "Live"!
> From: Alan Golub <ASGolub at dkhglaw.com>

> StoryCard Software LLC is pleased to announce that revJournal is now live a=
> t
> http://www.revjournal.com.
----------
Nice work, and needed, too. I wish you all success. I became a member just
now.

Ken N.



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Jul  7 12:48:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:48:01 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
Message-ID: <17EC1A20-B0A2-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>



Hello list again

PLEASE HELP HELP HELP....

I've send questions earlier without answers
So I come again...


Working on Mac OSX 10.2.6 FR and Rev 2.0.1

1?
I have a problem I didn't know with Rev 1.1.1

the command : "create folder"

1) works fine when I create a folder
BUT
2) doesn't work if the new created folder has a diacritical char

for example :

create folder "../test" works fine


create folder "../r?p?tition" doesn't work  (if I write  "repetition" 
(without the "?") it's good)


what to do ?????
How can I create a folder with french chars ???????


2?
Is it normal that when I ask the "script edit mode" item in the 
develpment menu, it takes about 1/2 hour to toggle ?????
I have this problem with a big stack (a main stack with many 
substacks), no problems with smaller stacks

Now it's so serious I cannot toggle anymore When I ask "script edit 
mode", the rev appl "quit" and return to finder
But I can further use the stacks when I restart Rev and further write 
scripts but I cannot debug...



PLEASE HELP...

Thanks.

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Jul  7 12:50:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:50:01 2003
Subject: Image converters
In-Reply-To: <200307071410.KAA07539@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2EFFF6.1B57%pixelbird@interisland.net>

H i Richmond,

> From: "Mathewson" <richmond at mail.maclaunch.com>
> Subject: Image converters
> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 03:22:56 -0400
> 
> If you have a problem converting images on a Macintosh
> (why???) the place to look for image converters is
> 
> http://www.versiontracker.com
> 
> if you are poor / tight-fisted like me there are quite a
> few FREE widgets around that can do the trick.
----------
Well, it's not that I can't convert an image, it's that the Rev dialog asks
for it, but won't do it. I can only assume it's a bug, or is otherwise
broken, because it simply doesn't work.

Also, why don't the ink properties work on PICT images? I couldn't find any
documentation concerning this.



From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Jul  7 13:07:00 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon Jul  7 13:07:00 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <17EC1A20-B0A2-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
References: <17EC1A20-B0A2-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <a05100301bb2f63700fe1@[216.229.107.86]>

Salut, Yves.

Sorry to hear you are (a) having difficulties and (b) having problems 
getting answers.

I don't have answers; but suggestions as to what I would try next:

1? 1.  Try creating a folder without diacriticals and renaming it.

1? 2.  Try creating a folder with diacriticals in the OS or another 
app [probably dumb; but I'm an ignorant Anglo with no experience in 
this area   :{`)     ]

2? 1.  Are you seeing the OS X beach ball spinning while this happens?

2? 2.  How does the size of the stack, + any images or other 
resources that load with it, compare to the amount of physical RAM 
available after allowing for the OS?

Hope this helps a little.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Jul  7 13:10:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon Jul  7 13:10:01 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <17EC1A20-B0A2-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <28D99D3C-B0A5-11D7-9C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bon soir Yves,

> Hello list again
>
> PLEASE HELP HELP HELP....

don't panic :-)

...and get your towel... :-)

> I've send questions earlier without answers
> So I come again...
> Working on Mac OSX 10.2.6 FR and Rev 2.0.1
>
> 1?
> I have a problem I didn't know with Rev 1.1.1
>
> the command : "create folder"
>
> 1) works fine when I create a folder
> BUT
> 2) doesn't work if the new created folder has a diacritical char
>
> for example :
>
> create folder "../test" works fine
>
>
> create folder "../r?p?tition" doesn't work  (if I write  "repetition" 
> (without the "?") it's good)
>
>
> what to do ?????
> How can I create a folder with french chars ???????

I just tested it and one can create a folder with that name in the 
finder!

But the engine refuses to create a folder with accents in its name.

So i think it may be possible with "shell" somehow, but don't know 
how...

Can someone (with more knowledge about shell commands) provide a hint
in favour of Yves health? ;-)

Thanks a lot.

> 2?
> Is it normal that when I ask the "script edit mode" item in the 
> develpment menu, it takes about 1/2 hour to toggle ?????

Sorry, no idea, but really sounds not too normal... :-(

> Thanks.
>
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Jul  7 13:16:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon Jul  7 13:16:00 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <28D99D3C-B0A5-11D7-9C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1C7DBD8B-B0A6-11D7-9C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bon soir Yves,

SUCCESS!!! :-D

This worked fine on my OS X 10.2.6 RR 2.01:

...
get shell("mkdir" && "r?p?tition")
...

mkdir = make directory :-)


Hope that helps.

Regards
Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Jul  7 13:25:00 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon Jul  7 13:25:00 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
Message-ID: <a05100300bb2f699380fb@[216.229.107.86]>

1? 3.  Try creating a folder with diacriticals using AppleScript.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Jul  7 13:35:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon Jul  7 13:35:00 2003
Subject: Image Problems: Download available
In-Reply-To: <200307071410.KAA07539@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB2F0A6B.1B58%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Richmond,

> From: "Mathewson" <richmond at mail.maclaunch.com>
> Subject: Image Problems: Download available
> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 06:02:19 -0400
> 
> Dear All,
> Just uploaded a stack to my website:  IMAGE CONVERTER.REV
> (soon to receive an Oscar for
> originality in naming programs) - this will import various
> image formats (including the MAC-specific PICT format) and
> export them in JPEG or PNG format.
> 
> Download it, Play with it, Throw it away......
----------
I tried it with my stack, but the image, which was a shaded purple PICT got
changed to a solid green JPEG., i.e., not the same image as the PICT at all.

Ken N.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jul  7 13:45:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Jul  7 13:45:00 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <BB2F73A8.1F7F%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <BB2F0BEF.303E2%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jo?l Guillod wrote:

> -- does not work or dont give the expected result:
> get value("getSomeData(1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar)", \
> btn "MyButton" of cd 10 of stack "someStack")
> put it into tMyResult

What is the desired result?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Jul  7 13:55:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon Jul  7 13:55:00 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bb2f63700fe1@[216.229.107.86]>
Message-ID: <6A969893-B0AB-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le lundi, 7 juil 2003, ? 20:00 Europe/Brussels, Rob Cozens a ?crit :

> Salut, Yves.
>
> Sorry to hear you are (a) having difficulties and (b) having problems 
> getting answers.
>
> I don't have answers; but suggestions as to what I would try next:
>
> 1? 1.  Try creating a folder without diacriticals and renaming it.
>

strange but it works...

> 1? 2.  Try creating a folder with diacriticals in the OS or another 
> app [probably dumb; but I'm an ignorant Anglo with no experience in 
> this area   :{`)     ]
>

without problem
> 2? 1.  Are you seeing the OS X beach ball spinning while this happens?

NO
>
> 2? 2.  How does the size of the stack, + any images or other resources 
> that load with it, compare to the amount of physical RAM available 
> after allowing for the OS?
>

the stack is about 5.6 MBytes
where can I see the amount of RAM allowed on MAC OS X ???

my computer has 768 MBytes physical RAM !!!!

> Hope this helps a little.
> -- 
>
>
Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Jul  7 13:58:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon Jul  7 13:58:00 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <1C7DBD8B-B0A6-11D7-9C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <D88F1EBC-B0AB-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le lundi, 7 juil 2003, ? 20:09 Europe/Brussels, Klaus Major a ?crit :

> Bon soir Yves,
>
> SUCCESS!!! :-D
>
> This worked fine on my OS X 10.2.6 RR 2.01:
>
> ...
> get shell("mkdir" && "r?p?tition")
> ...
>
> mkdir = make directory :-)
>
>
>


How can I make a full pathname
for example : users/<myname>/Documents/myData/R?p?tition
with this command ??? get shell(...)


How can you explain that create folder doesn't work but rename folder 
without diacritical chars to a folder with diacritical chars do work ?

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From edgore at shinra.com  Mon Jul  7 14:45:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Mon Jul  7 14:45:01 2003
Subject: Debugger Testing
Message-ID: <200307071937.h67JbhX09752@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Okay...

I'm beginning to feel like maybe I'm going crazy, since I can't believe other people would not be inconvenienced by step-over in the 2.01 debugger not working.

Therefore, I have devised a test - if you download 

http://www.shinra.com/debugtest.rev

and run it you will see a stack with a single button on it. Turn on the debugger, and click the button. The debugger will open, and if you click on on the Step Over button in the debugger, you should remain in the script for the button, click  "step Over" a few times, and then the name of the button should change.

What I am getting instead, on all of my machines, even after uninstalling and reinstalling, is that I click step over, and when it gets to the function, it steps into it.

I KNOW that step over was working before - I just don't know if it was in the beta, or in 2.0.

If a couple of people could try this stack to verify that it's a problem for them, I would really appreciate it.

Also, if anyone still has a copy of the installer for the pre-release 2.0, I would appreciate the opportunity to experiment with it as well...

I NEED to be able to debug...

Thanks,

Edwin Gore


From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Jul  7 15:03:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon Jul  7 15:03:01 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <D88F1EBC-B0AB-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <03D0B3AE-B0B5-11D7-9C07-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bon soir Yves,

> Le lundi, 7 juil 2003, ? 20:09 Europe/Brussels, Klaus Major a ?crit :
>
>> Bon soir Yves,
>>
>> SUCCESS!!! :-D
>>
>> This worked fine on my OS X 10.2.6 RR 2.01:
>>
>> ...
>> get shell("mkdir" && "r?p?tition")
>> ...
>>
>> mkdir = make directory :-)

I'm proud of me :-)

> How can I make a full pathname
> for example : users/<myname>/Documents/myData/R?p?tition
> with this command ??? get shell(...)

Just like any other path in RR...

There are some Unix related goodies that you can use.

Like $HOME or $USER

Try this in the msg:

put $HOME

will give the path to your home directory

and

put $USER

will give the username of the currently logged-in user

So you can create a path like in your example:

...
get shell("mkdir" && $HOME & "/Documents/" & "r?p?tition")
...

See also the info about "specialfoldernames" on Ken Rays website!

> How can you explain that create folder doesn't work but rename folder
> without diacritical chars to a folder with diacritical chars do work ?

Not at all ;-)

Hope that helps.

> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be

Au revoir...

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Mon Jul  7 15:15:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Jul  7 15:15:00 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <6A969893-B0AB-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <B9266868-B0B6-11D7-A7F5-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 12:47  PM, Yves COPPE wrote:
>
> the stack is about 5.6 MBytes
> where can I see the amount of RAM allowed on MAC OS X ???
>
> my computer has 768 MBytes physical RAM !!!!

I would rule this out. You have plenty of RAM. Unless you are editing 
some DVDs in the background or something :-)

Mac OS X uses it's "virtual memory" all the time. Virtual memory 
includes physical RAM + disk space as overflow RAM. The effect is that 
Mac OS X will never run out of memory, instead it will start paging 
memory to disk and slowly churn churn churn until it's dead in the 
water.

Use Utilities/Process Viewer.app to see how much memory an app is 
using. **

Use the terminal command vm_stat for arcane information about the 
virtual memory system.

** It might be hard to separate your stack's memory usage from 
Revolution unless you build a standalone and run it.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Jul  7 15:20:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon Jul  7 15:20:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] Game Available for Test
In-Reply-To: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B351BA57@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk>
References: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B351BA57@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk>
Message-ID: <3F09D422.9080906@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/7/03 11:36 AM, Glasgow David wrote:

> Yes it looks fine indeed.
> 
> But......Jacqueline's comments make me worry that I don't understand
> passwords and locking like I thought.
> 
> The first thing I did was try to see how he did that lovely whizzing
> text.  How is it that I can browse and even copy all of the scripts?
> Is this not what you mean by "explore"?

I think you probably understand passwords just fine. What happened was 
that Scott first sent out a password-protected stack, and almost 
immediately afterward replaced it with a non-passworded copy. The one I 
downloaded the first time was password-protected (and the scripts could 
not be opened or viewed.) But when I downloaded another copy the next 
day, the password had been removed. The second copy is the one you 
probably were viewing.

So you are not going crazy.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul  7 15:25:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul  7 15:25:00 2003
Subject: Open driver?
In-Reply-To: <BB2DB813.222%chripa@aon.at>
Message-ID: <18A26046-B0B8-11D7-B77F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 6, 2003, at 03:27 AM, Christoph Pastl wrote:

> How can I connect to my virtual serial port?

 From the TD on "open file":

> You can use the open file command to open a serial port on Mac OS or 
> Windows systems. On Mac OS systems, specify either ?printer:? or 
> ?modem:?. On Windows systems, specify either ?COM1:?, ?COM2:?, or up 
> to ?COM9:?. Set the serialControlString property before opening the 
> port to specify the baud rate and other settings.

 From the TD on "printer:":

> To use the modem port on Mac OS systems, use the modem: keyword. 
> (Revolution does not support additional serial ports.) To use serial 
> ports on Windows systems, use the COM1: through COM9: keywords.

 From the TD on "open driver":

> Changes to Transcript:
> Support for using serial drivers with OS X systems was added in 
> version 2.0.

I think this says that you can't open your serial port on Mac OS 9, 
though I think you have a chance if you can convince it to look like 
the printer port.

Dar Scott




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Mon Jul  7 15:36:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Jul  7 15:36:00 2003
Subject: selectionChanged for empty selection?
Message-ID: <A3866A86-B0B9-11D7-A7F5-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

Why isn't a selectionChanged message sent by a list field when the 
selection goes from one or more lines to empty lines? For example 
Option-clicking on a Mac to deselect a line in a list field.

I can work around it by handling mouseUp, but this seems to reduce the 
utility of the selectionChanged message.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Jul  7 20:37:00 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon Jul  7 20:37:00 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <BB2F73A8.1F7F%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCAEPEFHAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Jo?l,

Check out the CALL and the VALUE commands. I believe CALL may do what you're
describing.

-Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Jo?l Guillod
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:00 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
>
>
> I am trying to do what Supercard do with the function...via. That
> is I want
> that the function is evaluated by the script of the specified object.
>
> E.g.:
>
> In Supercard you can write :
>
>  put getSomeData(1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar) via btn "MyButton" of \
>    cd 10 of stack "someStack" into tMyResult
>
> How to translate that into rev?
>
>  -- does not work:
>  send "get getSomeData(1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar)" to \
>    btn "MyButton" of cd 10 of stack "someStack" into tMyResult
>  put it into tMyResult
>
>  -- does not work or dont give the expected result:
>  get value("getSomeData(1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar)", \
>    btn "MyButton" of cd 10 of stack "someStack")
>  put it into tMyResult
>
>  -- work around but not elegant:
>  -- getSomeData is no more a function but a handler...
>  call "getSomeData "1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar" of \
>    btn "MyButton" of cd 10 of stack "someStack"
>  put the result into tMyResult
>
> Of course, putting the script of the target object in the message path is
> some other possibility but I would exclude this for implementation reason.
>
> Maybe the "function via object" a feature for the wish list?
>
> Or did I miss something?
>
> Joel
>
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 06:40:44 -0700
> > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > From: "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <jeanne at runrev.com>
> > Subject: Re: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
> > Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >
> > At 1:30 AM -0700 7/5/03, Jo?l Guillod wrote:
> >>>> Is there an equivalent to the following Supercard statement?
> >>>>
> >>>> functionName([paramList]) via object
> >>
> >> YES I did but it does not behave as described in the docs,
> only the "me"
> >> keyword is related to the optional object param.
> >
> >
> > What exactly are you trying to do?
> >
> > --
> > Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
> > Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
> > http://www.runrev.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Jul  7 22:55:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon Jul  7 22:55:01 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
Message-ID: <a05100300bb2fee5db408@[216.229.107.194]>

2? 3.  What happens if you use the Rev Toolbar to turn off messages 
before opening your stack?  If the problem goes away, it's in your 
handlers (preOpenStack, openStack, openBackground, openCard ??).

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Jul  7 23:08:00 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon Jul  7 23:08:00 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <BB2F73A8.1F7F%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <00a601c34505$663ef1a0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

Joel,

The value() function is what you need, but to include parameters, you
need to include them like a "do". That is, if the parameter is a
variable you need to "&" it. I ran your test like this:

Script of button 1:
-------------------
on mouseUp
  put "Hello" into tMyVar
  put "Goodbye" into tAnotherVar
  answer value("getSomeData(1,the date," & tMyVar & "," & tAnotherVar &
")",btn 2)
end mouseUp

Script of button 2:
-------------------
function getSomeData p1,p2,p3,p4
  -- p1 is a number, p2 is a date, p3 is a string, p4 is a string
  return p1&&p2&&p3&&p4
end getSomeData

When I clicked button 1, I got:

  1 7/7/03 Hello Goodbye

(which is what I expected). So variables are not evaluted before they
are sent to the object - you need to force them to evaluate by "&"-ing
them as in my example above.

Does this help?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Jo?l Guillod
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:00 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
> 
> 
> I am trying to do what Supercard do with the function...via. 
> That is I want that the function is evaluated by the script 
> of the specified object.
> 
> E.g.:
> 
> In Supercard you can write :
> 
>  put getSomeData(1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar) via btn 
> "MyButton" of \
>    cd 10 of stack "someStack" into tMyResult
> 
> How to translate that into rev?
> 
>  -- does not work:
>  send "get getSomeData(1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar)" to \
>    btn "MyButton" of cd 10 of stack "someStack" into 
> tMyResult  put it into tMyResult
> 
>  -- does not work or dont give the expected result:
>  get value("getSomeData(1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar)", \
>    btn "MyButton" of cd 10 of stack "someStack")
>  put it into tMyResult
> 
>  -- work around but not elegant:
>  -- getSomeData is no more a function but a handler...
>  call "getSomeData "1,the date,tMyVar,tAnOtherVar" of \
>    btn "MyButton" of cd 10 of stack "someStack"
>  put the result into tMyResult
> 
> Of course, putting the script of the target object in the 
> message path is some other possibility but I would exclude 
> this for implementation reason.
> 
> Maybe the "function via object" a feature for the wish list?
> 
> Or did I miss something?
> 
> Joel
> 
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 06:40:44 -0700
> > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > From: "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <jeanne at runrev.com>
> > Subject: Re: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
> > Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > 
> > At 1:30 AM -0700 7/5/03, Jo?l Guillod wrote:
> >>>> Is there an equivalent to the following Supercard statement?
> >>>> 
> >>>> functionName([paramList]) via object
> >> 
> >> YES I did but it does not behave as described in the docs, 
> only the 
> >> "me" keyword is related to the optional object param.
> > 
> > 
> > What exactly are you trying to do?
> > 
> > --
> > Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
> > Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought 
> > http://www.runrev.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 




From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul  7 23:51:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul  7 23:51:01 2003
Subject: re Dial via built in modem
In-Reply-To: <E69ECEDA-AF8A-11D7-9EC0-000A957C92E0@hunterlink.net.au>
Message-ID: <B6EF30A6-B0FE-11D7-A421-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 6, 2003, at 02:21 AM, Scott Rankin wrote:

> I found your posting of Oct 19 last year when trying to solve the 
> problem of dialing the internal modem via applescript (OS X).
>
> Have you found a solution?

I currently am having trouble with using the internal modem with 
Revolution 2.0.1 on OS X, but am hopeful that this will be fixed soon.  
It might be your internal modem works just fine.  If so, or when this 
is resolved, you should be able to do some simple dialing and 
touch-tone tasks from within your handlers.  In the mean time, I, too, 
would be interested in what can be done with the internal modem using 
AppleScript.

Dar Scott


******************************************************************
   Dar Scott Consulting     Programming Services     dsc at swcp.com
******************************************************************



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Tue Jul  8 00:47:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Tue Jul  8 00:47:00 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bb2fee5db408@[216.229.107.194]>
Message-ID: <8048C8CF-B106-11D7-B21C-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le mardi, 8 juil 2003, ? 05:48 Europe/Brussels, Rob Cozens a ?crit :

> 2? 3.  What happens if you use the Rev Toolbar to turn off messages 
> before opening your stack?  If the problem goes away, it's in your 
> handlers (preOpenStack, openStack, openBackground, openCard ??).
>
>

Earlier, I was able to toggle the menu in this stack...
Now when I turn on the menu before opening the stack, my splash screen 
appears and all stays blocked...
I have to "force quit"

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From signe.sanne at roman.uib.no  Tue Jul  8 01:23:00 2003
From: signe.sanne at roman.uib.no (Signe Marie Sanne)
Date: Tue Jul  8 01:23:00 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <17EC1A20-B0A2-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
References: <17EC1A20-B0A2-11D7-A2A2-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <p05100300bb300f9931b7@[129.177.205.242]>

>
>the command : "create folder"
>
>1) works fine when I create a folder
>BUT
>2) doesn't work if the new created folder has a diacritical char
>
>for example :
>
>create folder "../test" works fine
>
>create folder "../r?p?tition" doesn't work  (if I write 
>"repetition" (without the "?") it's good)
>

Yves, I know that you are on a Mac OSX but perhaps this may give you some clue:

On Mac OS 9.2.2 using MetaCard 2.5 the first time you use create 
'folder "../r?p?tition" ' the folder is actually created (at the same 
level as your engine).

On Mac OS 9.2.2 using Revolution 2.0r2 the first time you use create 
'folder "../r?p?tition" ' the folder is created  (at the same level 
as your engine).

If you then try to send the same script again you get an error: 
can't create that directory.


-- 

1. amanuensis Signe Marie Sanne      e-mail: signe.sanne at roman.uib.no
Romansk Institutt                            tel:  +47 55 58 21 27
Oysteins gt. 1                                   
5007 Bergen        	 http://www.hf.uib.no/hfolk/mlab/hjem/default.html
Norway



From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Tue Jul  8 03:15:00 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Tue Jul  8 03:15:00 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <200307080449.AAA25990@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB30488D.1F89%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

Thanks for the idea Ken but no this does not help!

Yes, just try your scripts with:

on mouseUp
  put "Hello Ken Ray" into tMyVar -- HERE IS THE MODIFICATION !!!!!!!!!
  put "Goodbye" into tAnotherVar
  answer value("getSomeData(1,the date," & tMyVar & "," & tAnotherVar
&")",btn 2)
end mouseUp

and you will got the error:

value: error executing expression
Object    Button 1
Line    put value("getSomeData(1,the date," & tMyVar & "," & tAnotherVar
&")",btn 2) into fld 1
Hint    button id 1003 of card id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1"

I suggest to stop this thread discussion because there is no simple
implementation. I will use the call instruction and request a new feature...

Joel



> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: RE: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:59:52 -0500
> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> 
> Joel,
> 
> The value() function is what you need, but to include parameters, you
> need to include them like a "do". That is, if the parameter is a
> variable you need to "&" it. I ran your test like this:
> 
> Script of button 1:
> -------------------
> on mouseUp
> put "Hello" into tMyVar
> put "Goodbye" into tAnotherVar
> answer value("getSomeData(1,the date," & tMyVar & "," & tAnotherVar &
> ")",btn 2)
> end mouseUp
> 
> Script of button 2:
> -------------------
> function getSomeData p1,p2,p3,p4
> -- p1 is a number, p2 is a date, p3 is a string, p4 is a string
> return p1&&p2&&p3&&p4
> end getSomeData
> 
> When I clicked button 1, I got:
> 
> 1 7/7/03 Hello Goodbye
> 
> (which is what I expected). So variables are not evaluted before they
> are sent to the object - you need to force them to evaluate by "&"-ing
> them as in my example above.
> 
> Does this help?
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Tue Jul  8 03:25:00 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Tue Jul  8 03:25:00 2003
Subject: Image Problems: Download available
In-Reply-To: <web-305299783@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <web-305391733@mail.maclaunch.com>

Ken Norris wrote:

I tried it with my stack, but the image, which was a shaded
purple PICT got
changed to a solid green JPEG., i.e., not the same image as
the PICT at all.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Well, to be honest I have just made a multicoloured test
image (a PICT) and exported it as both JPEG and PNG: in
both cases I did not get a green rectangle, but I didn't
get a faithful reproduction of the original.  SORRY

I am going to be nasty and blame it on RR 2.0.1: obviously
(in the light of the related discussions going on here)
something a bit "off" about image conversion.

Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Tue Jul  8 03:38:00 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Tue Jul  8 03:38:00 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <200307080449.AAA25990@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB304DD1.1F8A%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

Is there a easy way to draw any line on screen?

What I want to do is to click on a control in window A and move the mouse
onto another control in window B and have during the move the line drawn and
updated from the first control to the mouseloc. The goal is to have a visual
effect of connecting two controls placed in two different windows.

I made that with an XCMD in Supercard and need the same functionality in
Rev, multiplatform.

Thanks for a reliable solution!

Joel



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul  8 04:23:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul  8 04:23:00 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <BB30488D.1F89%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <BB2FD992.3043F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jo?l Guillod wrote:

> Thanks for the idea Ken but no this does not help!
> 
> Yes, just try your scripts with:
> 
> on mouseUp
> put "Hello Ken Ray" into tMyVar -- HERE IS THE MODIFICATION !!!!!!!!!
> put "Goodbye" into tAnotherVar
> answer value("getSomeData(1,the date," & tMyVar & "," & tAnotherVar
> &")",btn 2)
> end mouseUp
> 
> and you will got the error:
> 
> value: error executing expression
> Object    Button 1
> Line    put value("getSomeData(1,the date," & tMyVar & "," & tAnotherVar
> &")",btn 2) into fld 1
> Hint    button id 1003 of card id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1"
> 
> I suggest to stop this thread discussion because there is no simple
> implementation. I will use the call instruction and request a new feature...

If call is what you need then of course you should use it.  But using value
to specify an object is generally straightforward when you take a moment
analyze any errors that occur.

In the example above the script quoted from the error string is different
from the one Ken posted.   There may be a problem with what was posted, but
there might also be a problem with the script that was used.

Solving the problem at hand will require seeing the script.  But hang in
there -- there are many flexible options at your dispoal, all using
tried-and-true techniques, and I'm confident you'll find them as easy to
work with as SuperCard's via once we get past this moment of unlearning.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul  8 04:32:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul  8 04:32:01 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <BB304DD1.1F8A%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <BB2FDBD2.30441%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jo?l Guillod wrote:

> Is there a easy way to draw any line on screen?
> 
> What I want to do is to click on a control in window A and move the mouse
> onto another control in window B and have during the move the line drawn and
> updated from the first control to the mouseloc. The goal is to have a visual
> effect of connecting two controls placed in two different windows.
> 
> I made that with an XCMD in Supercard and need the same functionality in
> Rev, multiplatform.

Drawing between windows is inherently problematic, as you found with the
need to write an external.  Depending on what you want to do, you may find
writing an external for each platform to be ideal.

As a workaround you could fake it by capturing the screen with the import
command and have the drawing take place in a window containing the capture
image sized to the rect of the monitor.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From martin at harbourtown.co.uk  Tue Jul  8 04:55:00 2003
From: martin at harbourtown.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Tue Jul  8 04:55:00 2003
Subject: Debugger Testing
Message-ID: <l03130300bb304095a476@[62.137.85.19]>

You aren't going crazy Edwin, it happens here too, though it's
inconsistent. I seem to recall I've seen this mentioned several times in
the lists by others.

I don't know if anybody has formally reported this as a bug though. Last
time I tried to look something up in bugzilla it gave me an error (though
it had worked for me previously).
I find it fairly infuriating myself, but how much of a problem this to you
personally will of course depend on the structure of your scripts. I just
try and work around it as far as possible by judicious placement of
breakpoints and use of the Run button, or sometimes putting a breakpoint
inside a conditional as in :

if myVar = 300 then
    breakpoint
end if

can cut out the need to step through the preceding 299 iterations of a
function call :-)

martin baxter

>From: Edwin Gore
>Okay...
>
>I'm beginning to feel like maybe I'm going crazy, since I can't believe
>other people would not be inconvenienced by step-over in the 2.01 debugger
>not working.




From hansydelm at ntlworld.com  Tue Jul  8 05:03:00 2003
From: hansydelm at ntlworld.com (Hans Ydelm)
Date: Tue Jul  8 05:03:00 2003
Subject: Filter substring
In-Reply-To: <BB304DD1.1F8A%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
References: <BB304DD1.1F8A%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <1057658565.1371.71.camel@linux104>

Hi all,

Probably a simple question but since I am a beginner :-) How can you
extract a substring from a string? I would like to change an absolute
path name to a relative one, e.g,

/home/hans/project/fileorder/src

change to:

fileorder/src

both are variables,

Thanks,
Hans.




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul  8 05:34:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul  8 05:34:00 2003
Subject: Filter substring
In-Reply-To: <1057658565.1371.71.camel@linux104>
Message-ID: <BB2FEA61.3044B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Hans Ydelm wrote:

> Probably a simple question but since I am a beginner :-) How can you
> extract a substring from a string? I would like to change an absolute
> path name to a relative one, e.g,
> 
> /home/hans/project/fileorder/src
> 
> change to:
> 
> fileorder/src


on mouseUp
  put ClipPath("/home/hans/project/fileorder/src", "/home/hans/project")
end mouseUp


function ClipPath pPath, pPartToClip
   set the itemDel to "/"
   get the number of items of pPartToClip
   delete item 1 to it of pPath
   return pPath
end ClipPath



-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Tue Jul  8 05:42:00 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Tue Jul  8 05:42:00 2003
Subject: RevJournal is "Live"!
In-Reply-To: <BB2EF29A.2596%ASGolub@dkhglaw.com>
Message-ID: <ADDC6BD3-B12F-11D7-BF2C-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Monday, Jul 7, 2003, at 15:49 Europe/Vienna, Alan Golub wrote:

> StoryCard Software LLC is pleased to announce that revJournal is now 
> live at http://www.revjournal.com.
>

Bravo, that looks really great!!!

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Tue Jul  8 06:05:00 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Tue Jul  8 06:05:00 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
Message-ID: <web-305393429@mail.maclaunch.com>

Cher Yves,
  I understand your problem, but my idea of a solution is
different from yours.  I can make up a font in 30 minutes -
which is quicker than waiting for the folks at RR to
produce the next version.  That is all.

Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Tue Jul  8 06:07:00 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue Jul  8 06:07:00 2003
Subject: Newbies board - Thanks Esa
In-Reply-To: <200307071605.MAA09868@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3070BF.A49%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi list,

I just want to inform you that those who miss the newbies yaBB have a new
board to look at. Esa Kivel from Finland has offered to open a revboard on
his server.

You can find it at:

http://www.esashi.org/yabb/YaBB.pl


Regards,

Malte



From cowhead at mac.com  Tue Jul  8 06:46:00 2003
From: cowhead at mac.com (mitchell mark)
Date: Tue Jul  8 06:46:00 2003
Subject: files in nested folders
In-Reply-To: <200306210904.FAA02694@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B25707DF-B138-11D7-B465-0030656DAB8E@mac.com>

If I recall, some time ago, someone published here a script for 
obtaining a complete list of files, including those buried deep in 
nested folders.  However, I can't locate this in the archives.  Rather 
than reinvent the wheel, does anyone have a script for this?  I need to 
see the change dates on files in a folder, and in all the folders that 
are nested within that folder.  So I guess I need some sort of repeat 
loop that will keep looking for subfolders until it can't find any 
more.  The OS is Mac 10.2x
  Thanks in advance!

mark mitchell
japan



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Tue Jul  8 06:47:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Tue Jul  8 06:47:00 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <web-305393429@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <E4C5CB3A-B138-11D7-9820-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le mardi, 8 juil 2003, ? 11:57 Europe/Brussels, Mathewson a ?crit :

> Cher Yves,
>   I understand your problem, but my idea of a solution is
> different from yours.  I can make up a font in 30 minutes -
> which is quicker than waiting for the folks at RR to
> produce the next version.  That is all.
>
> Richmond
>
>

Hi

Excuse me, it's me. I don't understand your proposition...
what is your purpose with the new font ???

when I create a folder, you can change the font ???
don't understand ??
can you explain me your purpose ?

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Tue Jul  8 06:57:00 2003
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (Ron)
Date: Tue Jul  8 06:57:00 2003
Subject: Dialog box positions in Windows
In-Reply-To: <00a601c34505$663ef1a0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <BB30DF07.F440%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi

The docs say:
"The position and appearance of the dialog box varies between platforms. On
Mac OS systems, the dialog box is centered on the screen; on Unix and
Windows systems, the dialog box is centered over the active window. "

In one of my Win apps, the main stack is a palette that stays open as others
wds come and go. This is located in the upper lefthand corner of the screen.
When a function located in this wd is called with an 'answer' or 'ask'
command, the dialog box, centered as it is over the active wd in the corner,
is often halfway off the screen.

Is there a better way to deal with this or to center the dialogs in the
screen? It would even be acceptable if the dialog set its upperleft to the
upperleft of the screen, but that is not happening either.

Thanks
Ron



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Tue Jul  8 07:02:00 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue Jul  8 07:02:00 2003
Subject: files in nested folders 
In-Reply-To: <200307080449.AAA25990@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB307D80.A52%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi Mark you find it here:

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002266.html

Regards,

Malte



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul  8 07:46:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul  8 07:46:00 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <BB30488D.1F89%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <0957A3AE-B141-11D7-AC71-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 02:08 AM, Jo?l Guillod wrote:

> I suggest to stop this thread discussion because there is no simple
> implementation.

Several people have asked just what you want to do.  You would likely 
find a good response if you describe that.

To get information back from an object I often use send and then get 
the response with result().

Dar Scott



From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Jul  8 08:07:00 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue Jul  8 08:07:00 2003
Subject: URGENT MAC OS X Problems
Message-ID: <a05100302bb3070a3f217@[216.229.107.190]>

>2? 3.  What happens if you use the Rev Toolbar to turn off messages 
>before opening your stack?

My error: I was thinking the problem occurred when the stack was 
opened, rather then when you set debug mode.

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Jul  8 08:10:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue Jul  8 08:10:01 2003
Subject: files in nested folders 
In-Reply-To: <BB307D80.A52%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <5FEBFBE6-B144-11D7-9468-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Hi Mark you find it here:
>
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002266.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Malte

remember to use "the long files" to get your desired info about
mod-dates of the files.

But should be pretty straightforward to create a list that will fit 
your needs...

Drop a line if you need more info/assistance :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From RGould8 at aol.com  Tue Jul  8 09:45:00 2003
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Tue Jul  8 09:45:00 2003
Subject: Advice on windowshape command
Message-ID: <166.22e9f491.2c3c3127@aol.com>

Is there an URL someone can point me to that gives step-by-step instructions 
on how to create a mask that can be used with the windowshape command?   I've 
created a black-and-white mask, saved it as an 8-bit PNG, like the 
documentation describes, then I do a "set the windowshape of this stack to 1003" (the 
object ID # of that imported bitmap image), and the window flickers, but does not 
change.   I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.   Any advice is greatly 
appreciated.

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From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Jul  8 10:20:03 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue Jul  8 10:20:03 2003
Subject: Advice on windowshape command
In-Reply-To: <166.22e9f491.2c3c3127@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A65F8650-B156-11D7-9468-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi RGould8,

> Is there an URL someone can point me to that gives step-by-step 
> instructions on how to create a mask that can be used with the 
> windowshape command?? I've created a black-and-white mask, saved it as 
> an 8-bit PNG, like the documentation describes, then I do a "set the 
> windowshape of this stack to 1003" (the object ID # of that imported 
> bitmap image), and the window flickers, but does not change.? I'm not 
> sure what I'm doing wrong.? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

the syntax is correct, but i looks like your image is not correct.

You need an image with "real transparency" in it.

The engine does not compute irregular shapes from a b/w image.

It just needs an image with transparent areas in it.

So look if your favourite image editor allows defining transparency in
your image and then save it as a GIF or 8bit PNG.

Drop a line (offlist, if you like) and i send you a small example/more 
info/assistance.

Hope that helps.


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Jul  8 10:56:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue Jul  8 10:56:00 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <web-305393429@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-305393429@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <3F0AE7F4.3040502@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/8/03 4:57 AM, Mathewson wrote:

> Cher Yves,
>   I understand your problem, but my idea of a solution is
> different from yours.  I can make up a font in 30 minutes -
> which is quicker than waiting for the folks at RR to
> produce the next version.  That is all.

Yves wants to create new folders in the Finder. A custom font would 
require that he set the Finder to use that font, which could potentially 
alter any existing folder names containing diatricitals. If Yves is 
planning to distribute his stack to others, it would require that all 
his users also install the font and risk the same changes to their 
existing folder names. I don't see it as a viable solution.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul  8 11:14:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul  8 11:14:00 2003
Subject: Dial via built in modem
In-Reply-To: <200307080448.AAA25920@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB303B46.1B86%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Dar,

> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:43:26 -0600
> Subject: Re: re Dial via built in modem
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>

> I currently am having trouble with using the internal modem with
> Revolution 2.0.1 on OS X, but am hopeful that this will be fixed soon.
> It might be your internal modem works just fine.  If so, or when this
> is resolved, you should be able to do some simple dialing and
> touch-tone tasks from within your handlers.  In the mean time, I, too,
> would be interested in what can be done with the internal modem using
> AppleScript.
----------
Does OSX have dial tones built in? I'm working on a set of mp3 files for
each dial tone, which should also work on Win systems.

Ken N.



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Jul  8 11:25:01 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Jul  8 11:25:01 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <BB30488D.1F89%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <00f501c3456c$5ea6cc80$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

Joel,

My point exactly is that it runs like "do", which means that if you need
to put quotes around multiword items. In fact it's probably useful to
quote all variables that are being passed. So the script that works is
this:

on mouseUp
  put "Hello Ken Ray" into tMyVar
  put "Goodbye" into tAnotherVar
  answer value("getSomeData(1,the date," & q(tMyVar)& "," &
q(tAnotherVar) & ")",btn 2)
end mouseUp

function q what
  return quote & what & quote
end q


> I suggest to stop this thread discussion because there is no 
> simple implementation. I will use the call instruction and 
> request a new feature...

Don't get me wrong, Joel... I personally prefer the elegance of the
function "via" in SuperCard than with an extension to the value()
function, and I support your request for this feature. 

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 




From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Tue Jul  8 11:27:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Tue Jul  8 11:27:01 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <3F0AE7F4.3040502@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <045014D0-B160-11D7-9820-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le mardi, 8 juil 2003, ? 17:49 Europe/Brussels, J. Landman Gay a ?crit :

> On 7/8/03 4:57 AM, Mathewson wrote:
>
>> Cher Yves,
>>   I understand your problem, but my idea of a solution is
>> different from yours.  I can make up a font in 30 minutes -
>> which is quicker than waiting for the folks at RR to
>> produce the next version.  That is all.
>
> Yves wants to create new folders in the Finder. A custom font would 
> require that he set the Finder to use that font, which could 
> potentially alter any existing folder names containing diatricitals. 
> If Yves is planning to distribute his stack to others, it would 
> require that all his users also install the font and risk the same 
> changes to their existing folder names. I don't see it as a viable 
> solution.
>
>

I think the only good solution is that the Rev team makes it possible 
again as it was with Rev 1.1.1

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul  8 11:47:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul  8 11:47:01 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <045014D0-B160-11D7-9820-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <BB3041B8.3047B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Yves COPPE wrote:

> Le mardi, 8 juil 2003, ? 17:49 Europe/Brussels, J. Landman Gay a ?crit :
> 
>> On 7/8/03 4:57 AM, Mathewson wrote:
>> 
>>> Cher Yves,
>>> I understand your problem, but my idea of a solution is
>>> different from yours.  I can make up a font in 30 minutes -
>>> which is quicker than waiting for the folks at RR to
>>> produce the next version.  That is all.
>> 
>> Yves wants to create new folders in the Finder. A custom font would
>> require that he set the Finder to use that font, which could
>> potentially alter any existing folder names containing diatricitals.
>> If Yves is planning to distribute his stack to others, it would
>> require that all his users also install the font and risk the same
>> changes to their existing folder names. I don't see it as a viable
>> solution.
> 
> I think the only good solution is that the Rev team makes it possible
> again as it was with Rev 1.1.1

I guess the obvious next question is:  what is different between the 1.1.1
implementation and v2.0, and what went into the decision to change it?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul  8 11:48:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul  8 11:48:01 2003
Subject: Image Problems: Download available
In-Reply-To: <200307081148.HAA01755@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB304355.1B87%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello Richmond,

> From: "Mathewson" <richmond at mail.maclaunch.com>
> Subject: Image Problems: Download available
> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 03:17:37 -0400
 
> Well, to be honest I have just made a multicoloured test
> image (a PICT) and exported it as both JPEG and PNG: in
> both cases I did not get a green rectangle,
----------
Well, I think that was a reverse image and the shading got ignored as well,
but I have no idea why.
----------
> but I didn't get a faithful reproduction of the original.  SORRY
> 
> I am going to be nasty and blame it on RR 2.0.1: obviously
> (in the light of the related discussions going on here)
> something a bit "off" about image conversion.
----------
I didn't look at your scripts yet, so I don't know what you used to convert,
nor do I know how Rev 2.0.1 converts images. However, it's obvious from both
my attempts and yours that image conversion is not functioning properly in
Rev 2.0.1 on Macs.

As usual, I successfully converted the images in PhotoShop?.

Thanks,
Ken N.






From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Tue Jul  8 12:05:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Tue Jul  8 12:05:01 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <BB3041B8.3047B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C986EF3E-B164-11D7-9820-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Hello,

>
> I guess the obvious next question is:  what is different between the 
> 1.1.1
> implementation and v2.0, and what went into the decision to change it?
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>


I guess they have change something because with rev 1.x you couldn't 
handle on Mac OS X long name folder in the finder.
Now you are able to create a folder or a file with a long name
So I'm sure they have change something but perhaps forgotten the 
diacritical chars for French Mac OS X system...

my 2 eurocents.
Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul  8 12:21:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul  8 12:21:01 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <200307081148.HAA01755@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB304B04.1B88%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello,

> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 02:24:18 -0700
> Subject: Re: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>

> As a workaround you could fake it by capturing the screen with the import
> command and have the drawing take place in a window containing the capture
> image sized to the rect of the monitor.
-----------
Or capture an image of the two stacks and make a substack with this image
with no decorations. Position it exactly over the original stacks. This will
make the fake _look_ like the two stacks.

Either way should work.

Then just animate the mousemove/control connecting line.

When finished, just hide the "fake" windows substack.

BTW, what do polygons have to do with your query?

HTH,
Ken N.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul  8 12:28:03 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul  8 12:28:03 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <C986EF3E-B164-11D7-9820-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <BB304B6A.30484%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Yves COPPE wrote:

>> 
>> I guess the obvious next question is:  what is different between the
>> 1.1.1
>> implementation and v2.0, and what went into the decision to change it?
>> 
>> Richard Gaskin
> 
> I guess they have change something because with rev 1.x you couldn't
> handle on Mac OS X long name folder in the finder.
> Now you are able to create a folder or a file with a long name
> So I'm sure they have change something but perhaps forgotten the
> diacritical chars for French Mac OS X system...

Short-term:  Does copying the old code do what you need?

Long-term: Have you submitted a report at
<http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/bugzilla/index.html>?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From raney at metacard.com  Tue Jul  8 13:36:00 2003
From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney)
Date: Tue Jul  8 13:36:00 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <200307081603.MAA07871@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307081217040.25076-100000@mast.metacard.com>

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> >> Yves wants to create new folders in the Finder. A custom font would
> >> require that he set the Finder to use that font, which could
> >> potentially alter any existing folder names containing diatricitals.
> >> If Yves is planning to distribute his stack to others, it would
> >> require that all his users also install the font and risk the same
> >> changes to their existing folder names. I don't see it as a viable
> >> solution.
> > 
> > I think the only good solution is that the Rev team makes it possible
> > again as it was with Rev 1.1.1
> 
> I guess the obvious next question is:  what is different between the 1.1.1
> implementation and v2.0, and what went into the decision to change it?

The difference is that in 2.0 the engine was converted to Mach-O
format and uses UNIX system calls to access the filesystem whereas 1.X
used the older (and slower and much less capable) File Manager calls.
The real problem here is rooted in the circa 1982 decision by the
Apple developers to use a proprietary character encoding for the
Lisa/Mac rather than the ISO standard.  This decision has now bitten
them (and you!) in the ass because the display system uses a different
character encoding than the UNIX filesystem does, making stuff like
this very hard to deal with because you have to do character-set
conversions all over the place.

It should be possible for us to fix or at least work around this in
the engine, but in the mean time using a script-level workaround is
your best bet.
  Regards,
    Scott

> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin 
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc

********************************************************
Scott Raney  raney at metacard.com  http://www.metacard.com
MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul  8 13:49:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul  8 13:49:01 2003
Subject: windowShape
In-Reply-To: <200307071737.NAA15460@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB305F6C.1B8A%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Richmond, and any others who can help,

I've tried figuring out windowShape without much success. I tried using an
image made from a graphic, but apparently Rev's own image files cannot be
used. 

I made a gif image in Painter, imported it to my stack and put:

on preOpenStack
  set the windowShape of this stack to 1008 -- id of the imported GIF image
end preOpenStack

...in the stack script.

The shape was oval, and the shape came out OK, but the image is all messed
up, i.e., it has a line made up of tiny bars of colors and a cropped white
space at the bottom.

How do I make a GIF image capable of being used for windowShape?

Ken N.



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Tue Jul  8 13:49:12 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Tue Jul  8 13:49:12 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <BB304B6A.30484%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <3AFE4599-B174-11D7-9430-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hi Richard,


> Short-term:  Does copying the old code do what you need?

How ? I don't understand what you mean ?

>
> Long-term: Have you submitted a report at
> <http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/bugzilla/index.html>?
>

Yes.

> -- 
>



Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul  8 14:03:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:03:00 2003
Subject: Advice on windowshape command
In-Reply-To: <200307081601.MAA07806@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3062E3.1B90%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello Klaus,

> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:12:54 +0200
> Subject: Re: Advice on windowshape command
> From: Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de>

> So look if your favourite image editor allows defining transparency in
> your image and then save it as a GIF or 8bit PNG.
> 
> Drop a line (offlist, if you like) and i send you a small example/more
> info/assistance.
----------
I'm also having trouble with windowShape. I posted a message about this a
few minutes ago. The shape is right but the image is screwy. Can you take a
look at my stack and see what the problem might be?

Ken N.



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Jul  8 14:03:10 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:03:10 2003
Subject: windowShape
In-Reply-To: <BB305F6C.1B8A%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BB305F6C.1B8A%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <a05200f02bb30c401000b@[10.0.1.2]>

>
>How do I make a GIF image capable of being used for windowShape?

I use ColorIt (Mac) to make a GIF and make sure I save as a transparent GIF .

hth

sims
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Jul  8 14:20:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:20:00 2003
Subject: Advice on windowshape command
In-Reply-To: <BB3062E3.1B90%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <3720FFC0-B178-11D7-9468-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Ken,

> Hello Klaus,
>
>> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:12:54 +0200
>> Subject: Re: Advice on windowshape command
>> From: Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de>
>
>> So look if your favourite image editor allows defining transparency in
>> your image and then save it as a GIF or 8bit PNG.
>>
>> Drop a line (offlist, if you like) and i send you a small example/more
>> info/assistance.
> ----------
> I'm also having trouble with windowShape. I posted a message about 
> this a
> few minutes ago. The shape is right but the image is screwy. Can you 
> take a
> look at my stack and see what the problem might be?
>
> Ken N.

sure i will, just hit the send button :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From edgore at shinra.com  Tue Jul  8 14:21:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:21:01 2003
Subject: Anyone have a pre-release 2.0 installer around?
Message-ID: <200307081913.h68JDiZ31345@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Wondering if anyone on the list happens to have a copy of the 2.0 pre-release installer for Windows lying around.

I had a 2.0 installer, but the debugger is broken in that version too. I know it worked (better) in the pre-release, because I would frequently use it for debugging 1.1.1 projects.

I can't fall back to debugging under 1.1.1, since the stack that I am debugging makes heavy use of XML in the code that I want to debug.

I am a sad, sad developer.


From jameslewes at comcast.net  Tue Jul  8 14:44:01 2003
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (James Lewes)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:44:01 2003
Subject: Anyone have a pre-release 2.0 installer around?
In-Reply-To: <200307081913.h68JDiZ31345@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <BB309551.526%jameslewes@comcast.net>

on 7/8/03 6:13 PM, Edwin Gore at edgore at shinra.com wrote:

> Wondering if anyone on the list happens to have a copy of the 2.0 pre-release
> installer for Windows lying around.
> 
> I had a 2.0 installer, but the debugger is broken in that version too. I know
> it worked (better) in the pre-release, because I would frequently use it for
> debugging 1.1.1 projects.
> 
> I can't fall back to debugging under 1.1.1, since the stack that I am
> debugging makes heavy use of XML in the code that I want to debug.
> 
> I am a sad, sad developer.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


I think I have a mac version of the pre-release installer

James



From RGould8 at aol.com  Tue Jul  8 14:57:00 2003
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:57:00 2003
Subject: How to drag window when windowshape is used?
Message-ID: <9f.3af8bdcb.2c3c7a48@aol.com>

In the Transcript dictionary, under "Windowshape", it talks about the need to 
create your own "window moving" handlers, since the title-bar disappears when 
using the windowshape command.

Does anyone have any sample "fake title-bar dragging" code they could share 
that allows the user to move a window via an object on a card, instead of the 
titlebar?

I'm guessing it would be something like:

on idle
      if the mouse is down in object #1005 then
           set the loc of this stack to the loc of the mouse
      end if
end idle

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From katir at hindu.org  Tue Jul  8 14:59:00 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:59:00 2003
Subject: Maintain Long File Names on OSX?
Message-ID: <93D60832-B17D-11D7-90FC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

using

  "answer file" and choosing a long file name in OSX returns an  
"encrypted" truncated version, even though the long file name is very 
clear in the finder:

"encrypted"

e.g. a file on disk

fwd/ resistance against vegetarianism.txt

returns:

/Users/katir/   Working/  Editorial/  Letters to the editor/Oct-Dec 
03/Fwd: resistance again#BC342.txt

Now, if i put this into a variable to store "gThePath" and later do this

put fld "incomingLetter" into url ("file:" & gThePath)

The file name on disk becomes:

Fwd: resistance again#BC342.txt

?? Is there a solution for this?

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org



From cm_sheffield at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 15:01:00 2003
From: cm_sheffield at yahoo.com (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Tue Jul  8 15:01:00 2003
Subject: Anyone have a pre-release 2.0 installer around?
In-Reply-To: <200307081913.h68JDiZ31345@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <20030708195355.25840.qmail@web20415.mail.yahoo.com>

I've got a couple beta versions I think.  If you want
them, let me know.  I'll probably have to upload them
to an FTP server of some sort for you.  I don't think
my e-mail will let me send an attachment that big.

Chris Sheffield

--- Edwin Gore <edgore at shinra.com> wrote:
> Wondering if anyone on the list happens to have a
> copy of the 2.0 pre-release installer for Windows
> lying around.
> 
> I had a 2.0 installer, but the debugger is broken in
> that version too. I know it worked (better) in the
> pre-release, because I would frequently use it for
> debugging 1.1.1 projects.
> 
> I can't fall back to debugging under 1.1.1, since
> the stack that I am debugging makes heavy use of XML
> in the code that I want to debug.
> 
> I am a sad, sad developer.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


=====
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
www.readnaturally.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 15:03:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Jul  8 15:03:01 2003
Subject: How to drag window when windowshape is used?
In-Reply-To: <9f.3af8bdcb.2c3c7a48@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030708195554.68965.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- RGould8 at aol.com wrote:
> In the Transcript dictionary, under "Windowshape",
> it talks about the need to 
> create your own "window moving" handlers, since the
> title-bar disappears when 
> using the windowshape command.
> 
> Does anyone have any sample "fake title-bar
> dragging" code they could share 
> that allows the user to move a window via an object
> on a card, instead of the 
> titlebar?
> 
> I'm guessing it would be something like:
> 
> on idle
>       if the mouse is down in object #1005 then
>            set the loc of this stack to the loc of
> the mouse
>       end if
> end idle
> 
> 

Have a look at this sample stack :
http://www.geocities.com/janschenkel/downloads/drawertest.zip
It contains a variation on a script technique for
dragging windows which I found in Chipp Walters'
essential plug-ins for Revolution 2.0

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul  8 16:47:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul  8 16:47:01 2003
Subject: Dial via built in modem
In-Reply-To: <BB303B46.1B86%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <ACE1578B-B18C-11D7-B118-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 07:11 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Does OSX have dial tones built in? I'm working on a set of mp3 files 
> for
> each dial tone, which should also work on Win systems.

Most phone-line capable modems can dial with DTMF tones, including 
internal modems.  Most also have a way that you can hear tones and the 
other end answering during dialing and connection.

Or do you mean the dial tone you hear when you take the phone off hook?

If you are calculating the tones to create the file, you might find 
this handy:

            1209 Hz   1336 Hz   1477 Hz   1633 Hz
697 Hz      1         2         3         A
770 Hz      4         5         6         B
852 Hz      7         8         9         C
941 Hz      *         0         #         D

Each button generates a sound consisting of two sine tones.

I think dial tone 350 Hz and 440 Hz which should beat at 90 Hz.  If you 
need ringing and busy, I can look that up.

I you want to dial, you can use the modem.  Most modems will respond to 
simple Hayes protocol.  If you just want to generate sound sound as in 
a Carmen Sandiago game, you can calculate or use the modem to help you 
generate the sounds.  You can probably find sound files online.

If you use the modem as a part of dial assistance, take care when you 
hang it up.

Dar Scott

******************************************************************
   Dar Scott Consulting     Programming Services     dsc at swcp.com
******************************************************************



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Jul  8 17:33:01 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Jul  8 17:33:01 2003
Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
Message-ID: <001801c3459f$d93d0f80$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this headline:

  "Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology"

You can read all about it here:

   http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html

Is this cool, or what? :-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 




From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 17:53:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  8 17:53:00 2003
Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
In-Reply-To: <001801c3459f$d93d0f80$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <20030708224520.74380.qmail@web20009.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
> Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this
> headline:
> 
>   "Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology"
> 
> You can read all about it here:
> 
>    http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html
> 
> Is this cool, or what? :-)

yes, however...
the RR list will not only become bigger
(inevitable anyway) but the level of 
technical expertise will increase.
will us slow pokes still be tolerated?

Erik 

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From edgore at shinra.com  Tue Jul  8 18:13:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Tue Jul  8 18:13:00 2003
Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
Message-ID: <200307082305.h68N5lb00354@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Does this mean that MetaCard will no longer exist as a seperate product? The press release seems to indicate that the development team and all has gone to RunRev.

If that's the case and all those brains are focused on RunRev, with it's great development environment, I can see good things ahead...

>Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this
>headline:
>
>  "Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology"
>
>You can read all about it here:
>
>   http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html
>
>Is this cool, or what? :-)
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Tue Jul  8 18:13:11 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Tue Jul  8 18:13:11 2003
Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
Message-ID: <20030709000528.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

I think this is great news.  The only major qualm I had about the future of Revolution was precisely what the relationship was between Metacard and Runrev (I wasn't sure what the disaster plans were...)

But if Runrev now own the engine (and the source code) and Scott is going to be working inside Runrev, then I think it makes the future look much more secure.  I just hope they didn't make him such a generous offer that he can afford to retire :-)

I can understand that some of the traditional Metacard users might not like this move (after all, that is the development environment they chose to continue using when Revolution came out).  But I don't think the future expansion of Metacard lay in that direction.  I had looked at Metacard myself a few years ago and dismissed it as being child-like and simplistic (yes, I know that was very stupid of me...)  The IDE really hid the power behind the model and the language.  I think that Revolution brings this out and means it can be taken more seriously (even by hasty people like me).

I hope the users from the Metacard list will come over to the Revolution list.  It will be good to have their input here - they are extremely knowledgeable, and I have certainly found it interesting to see the kinds of advanced things they have been doing with Metacard.

I think it is tremendously good news that all the energies of Metcard Corp and Runrev are now being channeled in the same direction.  I am sure it is going to increase the profile of this environment.

I did notice that Scott had been quiet on these lists for quite some time (and also noticed a strange silence from the Runrev people in the past month or so...)  

Regards,
Bernard

	"Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
	Sent by: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
	08/07/2003 23:25
	Please respond to use-revolution
		 
		 To: "Use Revolution List" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
		 cc: 
		 Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!


Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this headline:

  "Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology"

You can read all about it here:

   http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html

Is this cool, or what? :-)

Ken Ray



From edgore at shinra.com  Tue Jul  8 18:16:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Tue Jul  8 18:16:01 2003
Subject: How to drag window when windowshape is used?
Message-ID: <200307082308.h68N8fP01101@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Chipp's site at http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/UsefulScripts.htm has a great script for doing this - it's the first one on the above page.


>In the Transcript dictionary, under "Windowshape",
>it talks about the need to 
>create your own "window moving" handlers, since the
>title-bar disappears when 
>using the windowshape command.
>
>Does anyone have any sample "fake title-bar
>dragging" code they could share 
>that allows the user to move a window via an object
>on a card, instead of the 
>titlebar?
>
>I'm guessing it would be something like:
>
>on idle
>      if the mouse is down in object #1005 then
>	    set the loc of this stack to the loc of
>the mouse
>      end if
>end idle
>


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 18:16:09 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul  8 18:16:09 2003
Subject: [ANN] New stacks at my web site
In-Reply-To: <64A2A352-B034-11D7-8162-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030708230848.20088.qmail@web20008.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sarah <sarahr at genesearch.com.au> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have posted a few new stacks at my web site:
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/

hello Sarah,

i would like to put a link to your site
on my RunRev Fanzine page, do you 
not (prefer to include a last name)?


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Jul  8 18:26:00 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Jul  8 18:26:00 2003
Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
In-Reply-To: <001801c3459f$d93d0f80$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEJKDEAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>
> Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this headline:
>
>   "Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology"
>
> You can read all about it here:
>
>    http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html
>
> Is this cool, or what? :-)
>
I think it's fantastic. It can only improve response times to feature
requests etc.

Viva la Revolution!

Cheers

Monte



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Jul  8 19:55:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Jul  8 19:55:01 2003
Subject: How to drag window when windowshape is used?
In-Reply-To: <9f.3af8bdcb.2c3c7a48@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BB30B43C.D6C5%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> Does anyone have any sample "fake title-bar dragging" code they could share
> that allows the user to move a window via an object on a card, instead of the
> titlebar?

Place this in your drag control:

on mouseDown
  set the uAllowDrag of me to the mouseH & "," & the mouseV
end mouseDown

on mouseMove x,y
  if the uAllowDrag of me is empty then exit mouseMove
  set the topLeft of this stack to \
     globalLoc(x - item 1 of the uAllowDrag of me & "," & \
     y - item 2 of the uAllowDrag of me)
end mouseMove

on mouseUp
  set the uAllowDrag of me to empty
end mouseUp

on mouseRelease
  mouseUp
end mouseRelease

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From mvivit at xmission.com  Tue Jul  8 20:53:00 2003
From: mvivit at xmission.com (Mary Vivit)
Date: Tue Jul  8 20:53:00 2003
Subject: RevJournal is "Live"!
In-Reply-To: <BB2EF29A.2596%ASGolub@dkhglaw.com>
Message-ID: <7206RN06R832WRLPNMLHC8QMHE94HG.3f0b734a@oemcomputer>

Awe-some! Thanks for all the hard work to you and the contributors!!!!

Mary Vivit
mvivit at xmission.com

7/7/2003 7:49:14 AM, Alan Golub <ASGolub at dkhglaw.com> wrote:

>
>
>  Subject:RevJournal is "Live"!
>
>  From:   Alan Golub <ASGolub at dkhglaw.com>
>  To:     <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>  Cc:     Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>  Date:   Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:49:14 -0400
>
>
>
>  StoryCard Software LLC is pleased to announce that revJournal is now live at
>  http://www.revjournal.com.
>
>  After several months? work, and a frustrating weekend of spotty host
>  performance, the new online magazine, revJournal, is up and running. The
>  debut issue features a host of interesting articles, including:
>
>  In revTools: An exclusive excerpt from Dan Shafer?s forthcoming three-volume
>  eBook series, ?Scripting Revolution?
>
>  In revTalk: An interview with Revolution developer Sarah Reichelt
>
>  In revSchool: Not one, but TWO installments of our ongoing Revolution
>  tutorials
>
>  And more! We?re just getting started, so please visit the site for more
>  details and the latest developments.
>
>  Thanks to all who contributed their time and/or feedback in helping us with
>  our premiere launch.
>
>  We?re always looking for Revolution tidbits to post to the site, so please
>  contact publisher at revjournal.com with any news, reviews, or anything else of
>  interest to Revolution developers.
>
>  Regards,
>  Alan S. Golub
>  StoryCard Software LLC





From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Jul  9 00:02:03 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed Jul  9 00:02:03 2003
Subject: Image converesion failure
In-Reply-To: <200307082048.QAA19328@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB30EF3B.1BA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

I recently reported what I was sure was a bug, but Tuviah says it couldn't
be reproduced.

Here's the problem:

I make an ordinary stack and import a PICT via the answer file dialog right
from the Picture files on the HD. These are all screen shots, so I'm
positive it is a PICT. I get a dialog asking if I want to convert it to a
PNG. I click  "Convert to PNG". Nothing, nada, zip. It doesn't do anything
at all.

I've tried this with any number of PICT files. The conversion does not take
place and it doesn't import anything.

If it's not a bug, then what could be wrong?

Ken N.





From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Wed Jul  9 00:34:01 2003
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed Jul  9 00:34:01 2003
Subject: Debugger Testing
In-Reply-To: <200307071937.h67JbhX09752@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <D5FDA6B1-B1CD-11D7-BF92-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 03:37 PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> Okay...
>
> I'm beginning to feel like maybe I'm going crazy, since I can't 
> believe other people would not be inconvenienced by step-over in the 
> 2.01 debugger not working.
>
> Therefore, I have devised a test - if you download
>
> http://www.shinra.com/debugtest.rev
>
> and run it you will see a stack with a single button on it. Turn on 
> the debugger, and click the button. The debugger will open, and if you 
> click on on the Step Over button in the debugger, you should remain in 
> the script for the button, click  "step Over" a few times, and then 
> the name of the button should change.
>
> What I am getting instead, on all of my machines, even after 
> uninstalling and reinstalling, is that I click step over, and when it 
> gets to the function, it steps into it.
>
> I KNOW that step over was working before - I just don't know if it was 
> in the beta, or in 2.0.
>
> If a couple of people could try this stack to verify that it's a 
> problem for them, I would really appreciate it.
>
> Also, if anyone still has a copy of the installer for the pre-release 
> 2.0, I would appreciate the opportunity to experiment with it as 
> well...
>
> I NEED to be able to debug...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Edwin Gore
>


We already reported this bug to them.  It was verified.  I bet it will 
get fixed in the next release.



Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 01:07:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul  9 01:07:01 2003
Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
In-Reply-To: <001801c3459f$d93d0f80$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <20030709055943.47335.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
> Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this
> headline:
> 
>   "Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology"
> 
> You can read all about it here:
> 
>    http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html
> 
> Is this cool, or what? :-)
> 
> Ken Ray
> 

Everything under one roof, that sounds good indeed.
And in the current economy, strong partnerships mean
everything, especially in a market that is by
definition only a fraction of the computer users.

Keep up the good work, on both sides of the pond !

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 01:10:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 01:10:01 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <BB3041B8.3047B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E5D10D9E-B1D2-11D7-985C-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Hi list,


I' tried the following


on mouseUp
   set itemDel to "/"
   put item 1 to -2 of the filename of this stack into mypath
   set itemdel to comma
   put "/????????" after mypath
   put "Hello world" into tx
   put tx into URL("file:"& mypath)
end mouseUp


so the filename contains diacriticals chars : it works fine !!!!!!!



so I don' t understand why the same script :

on mouseUp
   set itemDel to "/"
   put item 1 to -2 of the filename of this stack into mypath
   set itemdel to comma
   put "/????????" after mypath
   create folder myPath
end mouseUp

it doesn't work.
So my ask is : can anyone write for me a command in Applescript to do 
the same as "create folder"

as f. ex.

on CreateaFolder <thepath>

this will help me very much...


Thank you.

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 01:11:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul  9 01:11:01 2003
Subject: RevJournal is "Live"!
In-Reply-To: <BB2EF29A.2596%ASGolub@dkhglaw.com>
Message-ID: <20030709060347.48280.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Alan Golub <ASGolub at dkhglaw.com> wrote:
> StoryCard Software LLC is pleased to announce that
> revJournal is now live at
> http://www.revjournal.com.
> 
> After several months? work, and a frustrating
> weekend of spotty host
> performance, the new online magazine, revJournal, is
> up and running. 
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Thanks to all who contributed their time and/or
> feedback in helping us with
> our premiere launch.
> 
> We?re always looking for Revolution tidbits to post
> to the site, so please
> contact publisher at revjournal.com with any news,
> reviews, or anything else of
> interest to Revolution developers.
> 
> Regards,
> Alan S. Golub
> StoryCard Software LLC
> 

Looking good, Alan. Should be in everyone's bookmarks!
Hopefully I'll find the time soon to prep some items
for you.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Jul  9 01:17:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed Jul  9 01:17:01 2003
Subject: Image converesion failure
In-Reply-To: <BB30EF3B.1BA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAMEGHEPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

I'm not a Mac User but, I seem to remember something about the new screen
captures being saved as PDF's not PICT in Jaquar. So, perhaps you're trying
to import a PDF?

-Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Ken Norris
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:59 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Image converesion failure
>
>
> Howdy,
>
> I recently reported what I was sure was a bug, but Tuviah says it couldn't
> be reproduced.
>
> Here's the problem:
>
> I make an ordinary stack and import a PICT via the answer file
> dialog right
> from the Picture files on the HD. These are all screen shots, so I'm
> positive it is a PICT. I get a dialog asking if I want to convert it to a
> PNG. I click  "Convert to PNG". Nothing, nada, zip. It doesn't do anything
> at all.
>
> I've tried this with any number of PICT files. The conversion
> does not take
> place and it doesn't import anything.
>
> If it's not a bug, then what could be wrong?
>
> Ken N.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul  9 01:37:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul  9 01:37:01 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <E5D10D9E-B1D2-11D7-985C-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <BB310458.D86%scott@tactilemedia.com>

> I' tried the following
> 
> 
> on mouseUp
>  set itemDel to "/"
>  put item 1 to -2 of the filename of this stack into mypath
>  set itemdel to comma
>  put "/????????" after mypath
>  put "Hello world" into tx
>  put tx into URL("file:"& mypath)
> end mouseUp
> 
> 
> so the filename contains diacriticals chars : it works fine !!!!!!!
> 
> so I don' t understand why the same script :
> 
> on mouseUp
>  set itemDel to "/"
>  put item 1 to -2 of the filename of this stack into mypath
>  set itemdel to comma
>  put "/????????" after mypath
>  create folder myPath
> end mouseUp
> 
> it doesn't work.
> So my ask is : can anyone write for me a command in Applescript to do
> the same as "create folder"
> 
> as f. ex.
> 
> on CreateaFolder <thepath>
> 
> this will help me very much...

Well, first of all, they're not the same script: the first creates a file,
the second creates a folder.  Why a file works and not a folder I have no
idea, but why can't you do the following?

on mouseUp
  set itemDel to "/"
  put item 1 to -2 of the filename of this stack into mypath
  create folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder")
  rename folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder") to (myPath & "/?????")
end mouseUp

Works fine here...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 01:48:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 01:48:01 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <BB310458.D86%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <4E5F6709-B1D8-11D7-985C-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

HI

> on mouseUp
>   set itemDel to "/"
>   put item 1 to -2 of the filename of this stack into mypath
>   create folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder")
>   rename folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder") to (myPath & "/?????")
> end mouseUp
>
> Works fine here...
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>

It doesn't work if in your path you have an existing folder wtih  
diacriticals

f. ex.
myPath is     /users/<myName>/xxx/yyy/????

then
add your code

>   create folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder")
>   rename folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder") to (myPath & "/?????")
>

it won't work !!!!


I repeat, at this time, waiting the team of revolution for fixing the 
bug, I think it's bette with Applescript



Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From Antn at aol.com  Wed Jul  9 01:59:03 2003
From: Antn at aol.com (Antn at aol.com)
Date: Wed Jul  9 01:59:03 2003
Subject: Where are examples of full-fledged commercial programs written with Revolution? 
Message-ID: <19b.17b7d4ad.2c3d1591@aol.com>

Hi,

Other than the How-to-type program written by the programmers at Runtime 
Revolution, what other major, commercial grade software has been written with 
Revolution? 

I see the bits and pieces of code samples in the developers corner, and the 
samples and utilities posted on Revolution-related websites, but it would be 
nice to have a list of full fledged, heavy-duty software too, especially OPEN 
SOURCE programs, with code included, or, if not, at least commercial ones that 
can be downloaded for trial.

This will act as a great motivational and learning tool. Thanks.

Thanks. 
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From Antn at aol.com  Wed Jul  9 02:06:01 2003
From: Antn at aol.com (Antn at aol.com)
Date: Wed Jul  9 02:06:01 2003
Subject: Revolution's license restrictions 
Message-ID: <5f.3c4a819b.2c3d1711@aol.com>

Hi,

I am new to Revolution, so far I find it very impressive and I am trying to 
learn it. 

However, I find the ten line limit a bit restrictive, even after reading the 
suggested work-around methods. 

I would like to get the student version and see if I can get up to speed on 
it, then I will like to upgrade to the small business edition. 

Is this possible? Will I get credit for the $99 I paid for the student 
version?

After I pay for the software do I get the unlock codes right away, or does it 
take a while? Do I have to fax over my student ID or somthing else?

Another question:? What exactly are the restrictions on the student version? 
One part of the site says that it cant be used to distribute commercial 
software, and another part (a chart listing the different license options,) under 
"restrictions", indicates "none".

How does Runtime Revolutions, Inc know whether students are writing 
commercial programs with the software? Is it an honor code thing or is there a physical 
restriction on the Student/Education software versions to prevent commercial 
sales from the compiled programs? 

For instance, does software compiled on the student version generate a 
graphic like "STUDENT VERSION - NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE),? or something else that 
prevents the software from being distributed commercially?

Thanks


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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul  9 02:08:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul  9 02:08:01 2003
Subject: Where are examples of full-fledged commercial programs
	written with Revolution? 
In-Reply-To: <19b.17b7d4ad.2c3d1591@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BB310B6D.3051E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Antn at aol.com wrote:

> Other than the How-to-type program written by the programmers at Runtime
> Revolution, what other major, commercial grade software has been written with
> Revolution? 

<http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/chooserevolution/index.shtml>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul  9 02:13:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul  9 02:13:01 2003
Subject: RevJournal is "Live"!
In-Reply-To: <20030709060347.48280.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB310C8A.3051F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alan Golub <ASGolub at dkhglaw.com> wrote:
> StoryCard Software LLC is pleased to announce that
> revJournal is now live at
> http://www.revjournal.com.
> 
> After several months? work, and a frustrating
> weekend of spotty host
> performance, the new online magazine, revJournal, is
> up and running. 

Congratulations on the launch.  Looks great, interesting content.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From Antn at aol.com  Wed Jul  9 02:13:11 2003
From: Antn at aol.com (Antn at aol.com)
Date: Wed Jul  9 02:13:11 2003
Subject: Revolution's CGI Module - where is it???? 
Message-ID: <c3.35cb3774.2c3d18d0@aol.com>

Hi,

I saw on the posts recently a mention of the availabilty of a CGI module for 
Revolution. This module is supposed to be available on request. 
Questions: 
How do you request it? 
How do you program it?
Is it past beta stage? 
Are there any write-ups or documentation on it?
Are there any pre-programmed code samples available for common web functions 
(like shopping cart, form processing, database information storage, retrieval, 
processing, credit card processing, etc?)
Is the programming based on the same Revolution language as the applications 
version?
How fast is it?
How many instant requests can it handle, or how many requests can it 
process/hour?
Is this "Enterprise" Grade (excuse the IT-tekkie talk), in other words, can 
it scale up to mission critical, hyper-volume sites and maintain stability?
Is it secure?
Is it recommended for e-commerce applications?
Can it be installed in a regular CGI directory on a regular webspace account 
without accessing the root server?
How big is the CGI module?
Can it be tied to MS SQL server and the unix databases?


Thanks
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From Antn at aol.com  Wed Jul  9 02:17:01 2003
From: Antn at aol.com (Antn at aol.com)
Date: Wed Jul  9 02:17:01 2003
Subject: How do you reduce Revolution's compiled program sizes? 
Message-ID: <1e9.cbb8287.2c3d199a@aol.com>

Hi,

I notice that all programs compiled with Revolutions (even the simple "hello 
world" sample) are on the heavy side (at least 1.8 megs,) even after you 
minimize usage of the optional libraries. 

Is it because Revolution packs the runtime libraries along with every 
compiled project like Visual Basic does?

I prefer Revolution to VB or C++ because it appears to be much easier to 
learn and use (not to mention it's cross platform feature), however, I am envious 
of the compactness of C++.

Why is C++ so small as compared to Revolution?

Another program that is cross-platform like Revolution, but extremely compact 
is Rebol. (http://www.rebol.com) The avg prog size for rebol is only about 5k 
(as opposed to 1800K for Revolution.) How did they manage to make Rebol so 
compact?

Other than reducing the associated libraries, avoiding media files (graphics, 
audio, video, etc.,) what tricks and tips can be used to make Revolution 
produce leaner and trimer executables? 

Thanks
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From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Jul  9 02:23:00 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed Jul  9 02:23:00 2003
Subject: Where are examples of full-fledged commercial programs written with Revolution? 
In-Reply-To: <19b.17b7d4ad.2c3d1591@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAIEGMEPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

You can check out www.buttongadget.com and www.altuit.com (HemingwayPC) for
commercial products. And some Open Source stuff at:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/default.htm

--Chipp





From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul  9 02:30:00 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Wed Jul  9 02:30:00 2003
Subject: revExecuteSql query
Message-ID: <000501c345ea$d63ef5a0$0e231e3e@Jez2>

Is there any way to get the result of a revExecuteSql statement? I'm getting
no indication of error when the sql has a problem, and no indication of the
number of rows affected when it runs OK.

(I'm accessing a Microsoft Access database via ODBC)





From hansydelm at ntlworld.com  Wed Jul  9 02:43:01 2003
From: hansydelm at ntlworld.com (Hans Ydelm)
Date: Wed Jul  9 02:43:01 2003
Subject: Filter substring
In-Reply-To: <BB2FEA61.3044B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BB2FEA61.3044B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1057736152.1240.0.camel@linux104>

Thanks Paul,

Works like a treat :-)

Regards,
Hans.
www.ht-lab.com

On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 11:26, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Hans Ydelm wrote:
> 
> > Probably a simple question but since I am a beginner :-) How can you
> > extract a substring from a string? I would like to change an absolute
> > path name to a relative one, e.g,
> > 
> > /home/hans/project/fileorder/src
> > 
> > change to:
> > 
> > fileorder/src
> 
> 
> on mouseUp
>   put ClipPath("/home/hans/project/fileorder/src", "/home/hans/project")
> end mouseUp
> 
> 
> function ClipPath pPath, pPartToClip
>    set the itemDel to "/"
>    get the number of items of pPartToClip
>    delete item 1 to it of pPath
>    return pPath
> end ClipPath
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin 
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 02:43:11 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul  9 02:43:11 2003
Subject: revExecuteSql query
In-Reply-To: <000501c345ea$d63ef5a0$0e231e3e@Jez2>
Message-ID: <20030709073558.45499.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jez <jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Is there any way to get the result of a
> revExecuteSql statement? I'm getting
> no indication of error when the sql has a problem,
> and no indication of the
> number of rows affected when it runs OK.
> 
> (I'm accessing a Microsoft Access database via ODBC)
> 

What do you get when you insert :
  answer the result
after your call to the 'revExecuteSQL' command ?

You can also use the 'revdb_execute()' function ; the
result of the call will then be put in the special
'it' variable.

In fact, most of my code looks like :
  put revdb_execute(tConnectionID, tSQLQuery) \
      into tQueryResult
  if char 1 to 8 of tQueryResult is "revdberr" then
    answer error tQueryResult
    exit MyHandler
  end if
  -- if everything went fine, proceed...
  
Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul  9 02:50:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul  9 02:50:01 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <4E5F6709-B1D8-11D7-985C-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <BB311597.D9C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 7/8/03 11:41 PM, "Yves COPPE" <yvescoppe at skynet.be> wrote:

>> on mouseUp
>>   set itemDel to "/"
>>   put item 1 to -2 of the filename of this stack into mypath
>>   create folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder")
>>   rename folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder") to (myPath & "/?????")
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> Works fine here...
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>> 
> 
> It doesn't work if in your path you have an existing folder wtih
> diacriticals
> 
> f. ex.
> myPath is     /users/<myName>/xxx/yyy/????
> 
> then
> add your code
> 
>>   create folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder")
>>   rename folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder") to (myPath & "/?????")
>> 
> 
> it won't work !!!!


I can get this to work using the directory property and relative paths.

on mouseUp
  # START WITH FOLDER NAME
  put "?????" into tName
  
  # ESTABLISH THE BASE PATH
  # ALWAYS DO THIS BEFORE CREATING ANY FOLDER
  set itemDel to "/"
  put item 1 to -2 of the filename of this stack into mypath
  set the directory to mypath
  
  # OPTION 1 - CREATE FOLDER IN SAME DIRECTORY AS STACK
  create folder "newuserfolder"
  rename folder "newuserfolder" to tName
  
  # OPTION 2 - CREATE NEW FOLDER ONE FOLDER UP IN HIERARCHY
  set the directory to "../"
  create folder "newuserfolder"
  rename folder "newuserfolder" to tName
  
  # OPTION 3 - CREATE FOLDER TWO FOLDERS UP IN HIERARCHY
  set the directory to "../"
  create folder "newuserfolder"
  rename folder "newuserfolder" to tName
end mouseUp


Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Wed Jul  9 03:01:01 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Wed Jul  9 03:01:01 2003
Subject: free, lightweight sql engine
Message-ID: <20030709085312.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

I thought this might be of interest to Revolution developers.  SQLite is an cross-platform embedded SQL engine (basically DLL and an ODBC driver).  It appears to be completely free (as in beer and speech).  In this sense it is more free than MySQL (my understanding is that the latter is not free for use if distributed as part of a commercial application).

There are bindings for many different languages (there could be a native Transcript binding if Runrev were so inclined, and SQLite could be distributed as a part of Rev).  

In terms of SQL compliance, it seems to be at the level that MySQL was at up until the last release of MySQL.  Obviously, it is not a multi-user relational database (but then it also doesn't cost thousands of pounds/euros/dollars, nor a DBA....)

Here's some more info.  I haven't had time to test it other than to see that I could create a database and populate it with test data, and then connect to it from within Rev and query the data.  (I'm involved in so many other technology assessments right now that I just don't have time to use this, but thought this could be of use to Revolution users...  )

This is the main site: http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/

Sqlite seems to offer the best kind of relational storage for a Revolution/Metacard stack.  It seems to me that the primary reason why Rev/Metacard developers might want to store data in a RDBMS is to be able to access data faster than they can if it was simply stored in stacks (and really the key here is to be able to index the data).

What does Sqlite have to recommend it?

Sqlite is multiplatform - http://cvs.hwaci.com/sqlite/wiki?p=HowToCompile
(One doesn't necessarily have to compile it - there are binaries for Windows and Linux here: http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/  I was unable to find a binary for OS X).

The databases can be accessed from various languages and wrappers:
http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/lang.html
http://cvs.hwaci.com/sqlite/wiki?p=SqliteWrappers
(It is not surprising to see Delphi, Perl and Smalltalk in that list, but it is quite surprising to see Java and PHP.  Apparently the use of SQLite as the backend for websites is growing very rapidly).

There is an ODBC interface, so it can already be accessed from Revolution: http://www.ch-werner.de/sqliteodbc

I'm sure many traditional programmers would think that it is a bad idea to have typeless columns in a relational database, but I think this could appeal to Metacard/Rev developers: http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/datatypes.html


From paeleman at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 03:06:01 2003
From: paeleman at hotmail.com (Joeri Paeleman)
Date: Wed Jul  9 03:06:01 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
Message-ID: <Law11-F49oe2U8QVjp30002cef6@hotmail.com>

Hi,
This was the script which gave an error:

on mouseUp
  put "Hello Ken Ray" into tMyVar -- HERE IS THE MODIFICATION !!!!!!!!!
  put "Goodbye" into tAnotherVar
  answer value("getSomeData(1,the date," & tMyVar & "," & tAnotherVar 
&")",btn 2)
end mouseUp

I think the problem lies in "Hello Ken Ray", since it makes the script 
evaluate the following line:
getSomeData(1,the date, Hello Ken Ray, Goodbye)


It should work like this:
answer value("getSomeData(1,the date," & quote & tMyVar & quote & "," & 
quote & tAnotherVar & quote & ")",btn 2)
(Which would become:
getSomeData(1,the date,"Hello Ken Ray","Goodbye")
)

Goodbye doesn't need to be quoted, since it consists of one word (and 
Revolution appears to assume that it is a string if it can't find another 
use for it), so the previously posted script worked fine.


Hope this helps.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Search, for relevant search results! http://search.msn.be



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Jul  9 03:11:00 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Wed Jul  9 03:11:00 2003
Subject: unicode question
In-Reply-To: <BB311597.D9C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BB311597.D9C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f01bb317a16167a@[10.0.1.2]>

I have a field that displays names of some of the users files.

I want to be certain that *any* file name (including those with 
non-english spelling)
will be displayed properly.

What sort of scripting is needed for the field?

If I use:   set the useUnicode of fld "files" to true    
will that do it? If not, what is needed?

tia

sims

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Wed Jul  9 03:16:00 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Wed Jul  9 03:16:00 2003
Subject: How do you reduce Revolution's compiled program sizes?
Message-ID: <20030709090829.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

Revolution executables are 'so large' because they include the engine.  It as if you are distributing a Java application and including the JRE along with your class files.  Or, since you mention Rebol - it is as if you are distributing the Rebol engine along with your application.

A simple Revolution application (if distributed only as a stack a la your Rebol example) would also only be a couple of Kilobytes in size.  If you want to see something akin to the Rebol way of doing things, have a look at Richard Gaskin's GoRevNet: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev/index.html

Personally I would rather distribute a cross-platform Revolution executable that was 2MB in size and have the benefits of a powerful GUI and easier and more pleasant development experience.  One could always use C or C++ and produce a single platform, more compact application with a lengthy and nightmarish development process.

Maybe in the days of slow CPUs, and slow modems I would have different priorities :-)

Regards,
Bernard


>>
Hi,

I notice that all programs compiled with Revolutions (even the simple "hello world" sample) are on the heavy side (at least 1.8 megs,) even after you minimize usage of the optional libraries. 

Is it because Revolution packs the runtime libraries along with every compiled project like Visual Basic does?

I prefer Revolution to VB or C++ because it appears to be much easier to learn and use (not to mention it's cross platform feature), however, I am envious of the compactness of C++.

Why is C++ so small as compared to Revolution?

Another program that is cross-platform like Revolution, but extremely compact is Rebol. (http://www.rebol.com) The avg prog size for rebol is only about 5k (as opposed to 1800K for Revolution.) How did they manage to make Rebol so compact?

Other than reducing the associated libraries, avoiding media files (graphics, audio, video, etc.,) what tricks and tips can be used to make Revolution produce leaner and trimer executables? 

Thanks  
<<


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul  9 03:20:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul  9 03:20:00 2003
Subject: How do you reduce Revolution's compiled program sizes? 
In-Reply-To: <1e9.cbb8287.2c3d199a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BB311C7E.30538%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Antn at aol.com wrote:

> I notice that all programs compiled with Revolutions (even the simple "hello
> world" sample) are on the heavy side (at least 1.8 megs,) even after you
> minimize usage of the optional libraries.
> 
> Is it because Revolution packs the runtime libraries along with every compiled
> project like Visual Basic does?

Precisely, but with two advantages over VB:

- Rev has a much smaller runtime footprint.

- It's self-contained: no DLLs strewn all over the hard drive conflicting
with other versions.


> I prefer Revolution to VB or C++ because it appears to be much easier to learn
> and use (not to mention it's cross platform feature), however, I am envious of
> the compactness of C++.
> 
> Why is C++ so small as compared to Revolution?

A multi-platform framework as complete as what Rev delivers will not be
radically smaller than Rev.  To facillitate platform-independence any good
frame work will have at least two layers: the platform-independent API you
write to, which in turn uses OS-specific calls to execute your code on a
given machine.

The Rev engine is written in C++, and if you look at it as a precompiled
library its actually rather compact for what it does, from flexible fast
text processing to QuickTime playback.

The biggest difference is that with C++ you're generally only compiling the
parts you need.  With isolated demo examples like "Hello World" the
difference can be quite substantial as you've noted, but once you start
building professional-level apps the size of your app is not out of line
with modern norms:

 - GraphicConverter   4.4 MB
 - Apple's DVD Player 7.7 MB
 - Address Book       2.1 MB
 - Apple's Calculator   1 MB
 - iCal              26.4 MB
 - iSynch            10.2 MB
 - Interarchy         4.1 MB
 - Photoshop           53 MB

My Rev-based WebMerge product does a lot of heavy text processing and FTP in
an attractive UI for just 2.1 MBs, less than one-fourth the size of Apple's
Cocoa-based iSynch utility.

> Another program that is cross-platform like Revolution, but extremely compact
> is Rebol. (http://www.rebol.com) The avg prog size for rebol is only about 5k
> (as opposed to 1800K for Revolution.) How did they manage to make Rebol so
> compact?

5k is so unusually small that I'm not sure how much could be accomplished
with that.  Not that Rebol isn't a flexible, robust system, as many seem
very enthused by its capabilities.  I'm just not certain a 5k runtime is
what drives it; my hunch is that, like C++, the more capabilities your app
has the larger the libraries needed to support it.
 
> Other than reducing the associated libraries, avoiding media files (graphics,
> audio, video, etc.,) what tricks and tips can be used to make Revolution
> produce leaner and trimer executables?

There's a feature request to consider breaking the engine into chunks to
allow smaller executables, but that's a non-trivial task and I've yet to
hear a commitment to such a plan.

In the meantime, most of the apps worth shipping will likely have enough
features to warrant the engine overhead.  Stack files themselves are very
small, so once you get past the engine size your app can be loaded with
features with relatively little additional overhead.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Wed Jul  9 03:22:00 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Wed Jul  9 03:22:00 2003
Subject: Image Converter: New version
Message-ID: <web-305413765@mail.maclaunch.com>

Dear All, 
   I have uploaded a new version of my IMAGE CONVERTER.REV
stack to my website.

It is still problematic; the reasons are as follows (RR
staff please take note):

1.  The first version imported images as images; on export
as JPEG or PNG images there was colour 'corruption'.

2.  The new version is based on my MOVIE-SNAPPER.REV stack
insofar as it imports images into a PLAYER object (!!!!!);
it exports to JPEG and PNG perfectly, BUT......

the player object resizes the image to fit so images may be
distirted on export.

This is only a marker on the road to something better; and
that something better ought to be proper export
capabilities for images in RR.

Download it, play with it, throw abuse at me......

Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Wed Jul  9 03:27:01 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Wed Jul  9 03:27:01 2003
Subject: WindowShape
In-Reply-To: <F934BF2710426B44833B8677AF47F24635CE6D@mail3.tay.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <web-305414075@mail.maclaunch.com>

I downloaded a tryout copy of Photoshop 7 and made a GIF
with the following specs:

Grayscale

bottom layer transparent

the chose 'new layer'

drew shape in black (0.0.0)

saved FOR WEB

(if you save as a GIF it doth not work!)

Love, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Wed Jul  9 03:30:00 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Wed Jul  9 03:30:00 2003
Subject: How to drag window when windowshape is used !!!
Message-ID: <web-305414161@mail.maclaunch.com>

Go to my website.........go to the FILES page.....download
MULTIPLE INDEPENDENTLY DRAGGABLE WINDOWS........look at the
stack scripts......its all there.

Love, Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul  9 04:00:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul  9 04:00:00 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <4E5F6709-B1D8-11D7-985C-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <A7D59141-B1EA-11D7-882C-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bon jour Yves,

> HI
>
>> on mouseUp
>>   set itemDel to "/"
>>   put item 1 to -2 of the filename of this stack into mypath
>>   create folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder")
>>   rename folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder") to (myPath & "/?????")
>> end mouseUp
>> Works fine here...
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>
> It doesn't work if in your path you have an existing folder wtih  
> diacriticals
> f. ex.
> myPath is     /users/<myName>/xxx/yyy/????
> then
> add your code
>>   create folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder")
>>   rename folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder") to (myPath & "/?????")
>
> it won't work !!!!
>
> I repeat, at this time, waiting the team of revolution for fixing the 
> bug, I think it's bette with Applescript

any special reason why my (working!) code snippet with "get shell..." 
does not work for you?
Less code than with AppleScript ;-)

> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
>

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 04:47:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 04:47:00 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <A7D59141-B1EA-11D7-882C-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <38AD37FA-B1F1-11D7-BA54-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le mercredi, 9 juil 2003, ? 10:52 Europe/Brussels, Klaus Major a ?crit :

> Bon jour Yves,
>
> any special reason why my (working!) code snippet with "get shell..." 
> does not work for you?
> Less code than with AppleScript ;-)
>
>>

Hello Klaus

Yes there is a problem

when I use a path as

"/users/<myname>/aaaa/bbb/ccc/ddd/???/fff/<folderName>"

it doesn't work

seems that the path is too long

all the previous folders do exist : 
"/users/<myname>/aaaa/bbb/ccc/ddd/???/fff

but if I add the <foldername> with diacriticals, doesn't work...
when I use

get shell(....)
answer it

it = a message in 3 lines: folder doesn't exist...
try and let me know....
thanks.



Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul  9 05:27:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul  9 05:27:00 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <38AD37FA-B1F1-11D7-BA54-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <E547DB9C-B1F6-11D7-882C-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bon jour Yves,

> Le mercredi, 9 juil 2003, ? 10:52 Europe/Brussels, Klaus Major a ?crit 
> :
>
>> Bon jour Yves,
>>
>> any special reason why my (working!) code snippet with "get shell..." 
>> does not work for you?
>> Less code than with AppleScript ;-)
>>
>>>
>
> Hello Klaus
>
> Yes there is a problem

I knew it wouldn't be that easy... ;-)

> when I use a path as
>
> "/users/<myname>/aaaa/bbb/ccc/ddd/???/fff/<folderName>"
>
> it doesn't work
>
> seems that the path is too long

It's not the long path, it's the diacriticals in the name of the ??? 
folder.

Work with longer paths if there are no diacriticals...

> all the previous folders do exist : 
> "/users/<myname>/aaaa/bbb/ccc/ddd/???/fff
>
> but if I add the <foldername> with diacriticals, doesn't work...
> when I use

I did some tests and it will work, but only if the path does not 
contain diacriticals.
They may appear in the "foldername", but not in the path...

This worked here:

get shell("mkdir" && $HOME & "/aaaa/bbb/ccc/ddd/eee/fff/r?p?tition")


This didn't:

get shell("mkdir" && $HOME & "/aaaa/bbb/ccc/ddd/???/fff/r?p?tition")

Same error as in your example...

> get shell(....)
> answer it
>
> it = a message in 3 lines: folder doesn't exist...
> try and let me know....
> thanks.

This is strange indeed, but as Scott pointed out it's Apples fault and 
they are
going to workaround this in the next version/update...

Until then you really might have to use AppleScript...

I am rather unexperienced in AS so i leave this problem to another 
helpful soul ;-)

> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Wed Jul  9 05:29:00 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Wed Jul  9 05:29:00 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <200307082048.QAA19374@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB31B944.1F9C%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

le 8.7.2003 22:48, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com ?
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com a ?crit?:

>> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 02:24:18 -0700
>> Subject: Re: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
>> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> 
>> As a workaround you could fake it by capturing the screen with the import
>> command and have the drawing take place in a window containing the capture
>> image sized to the rect of the monitor.
> -----------
> Or capture an image of the two stacks and make a substack with this image
> with no decorations. Position it exactly over the original stacks. This will
> make the fake _look_ like the two stacks.
> 
> Either way should work.
> 
> Then just animate the mousemove/control connecting line.
> 
> When finished, just hide the "fake" windows substack.
> 
> BTW, what do polygons have to do with your query?
> 
> HTH,
> Ken N.

Thanks for the idea! I have already implemented this solution with a
snapshot and have been able to track for the location of the controls on
windows under the toplevel. This works just fine but does not take into
account that other applications are updating the content of their windows to
give real-time feedback to user.

Probably the better solution is through externals. That I cannot!

To Ken, polygons allow to have connectors between two points with two
segments at right angles (horizontal and vertical). This is for a pleasant
look. Have a look to the way WebObjects Builder or Interface Builder is
connecting two objects. This is better looking than an oblique line.

Joel




From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 05:33:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 05:33:01 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <E547DB9C-B1F6-11D7-882C-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1FDE74EE-B1F8-11D7-8B4E-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le mercredi, 9 juil 2003, ? 12:19 Europe/Brussels, Klaus Major a ?crit :

>> Hello Klaus
>>
>> Yes there is a problem
>
> I knew it wouldn't be that easy... ;-)
>
>> when I use a path as
>>
>> "/users/<myname>/aaaa/bbb/ccc/ddd/???/fff/<folderName>"
>>
>> it doesn't work
>>
>> seems that the path is too long
>
> It's not the long path, it's the diacriticals in the name of the ??? 
> folder.
>
> Work with longer paths if there are no diacriticals...
>
>> all the previous folders do exist : 
>> "/users/<myname>/aaaa/bbb/ccc/ddd/???/fff
>>
>> but if I add the <foldername> with diacriticals, doesn't work...
>> when I use
>
> I did some tests and it will work, but only if the path does not 
> contain diacriticals.
> They may appear in the "foldername", but not in the path...
>
> This worked here:
>
> get shell("mkdir" && $HOME & "/aaaa/bbb/ccc/ddd/eee/fff/r?p?tition")
>
>
> This didn't:
>
> get shell("mkdir" && $HOME & "/aaaa/bbb/ccc/ddd/???/fff/r?p?tition")
>
> Same error as in your example...
>
>> get shell(....)
>> answer it
>>
>> it = a message in 3 lines: folder doesn't exist...
>> try and let me know....
>> thanks.
>
> This is strange indeed, but as Scott pointed out it's Apples fault and 
> they are
> going to workaround this in the next version/update...
>
> Until then you really might have to use AppleScript...
>
> I am rather unexperienced in AS so i leave this problem to another 
> helpful soul ;-)
>
>> Greetings.
>>
>> Yves COPPE
>> yvescoppe at skynet.be
>
> Regards
>


So I ask asap an applescript user to write a command for me
because I see the heart infarct coming soon...


Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul  9 05:51:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul  9 05:51:00 2003
Subject: Advice on windowshape command
In-Reply-To: <BB3062E3.1B90%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <3B557482-B1FA-11D7-882C-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Ken,

the mail i send you offlist just came back (see below),
so i will post my answer here on this list

> Well here it is. The thing should be a transparent GIF which was 
> created in
> Painter Classic 1.0.2.

Hmmmm works fine here: OS X, RR 2.01...

Shape OK, no distorted colors in the gif...

> Thanks for taking a look,

Sorry for not being able to be more helpful ;-)

> Ken N.

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



P.S.
If this is of interest to someone, here is the error the mail returned:

    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<pixelbird at interisland.net>
     (reason: 553 5.3.0 <pixelbird at interisland.net>... Message from 
192.67.198.74 rejected - see http://dnsbl.sorbs.net/(sorbs))

    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mail.interisland.net.:
>>> DATA
<<< 553 5.3.0 <pixelbird at interisland.net>... Message from 192.67.198.74 
rejected - see http://dnsbl.sorbs.net/(sorbs)
550 5.1.1 <pixelbird at interisland.net>... User unknown
<<< 503 5.0.0 Need RCPT (recipient)
Reporting-MTA: dns; post.webmailer.de
Received-From-MTA: DNS; pD952ED08.dip.t-dialin.net
Arrival-Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:40:13 +0200 (MEST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; pixelbird at interisland.net
Action: failed
Status: 5.3.0
Remote-MTA: DNS; mail.interisland.net
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 5.3.0 <pixelbird at interisland.net>... Message 
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From mcdomi at free.fr  Wed Jul  9 07:28:00 2003
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Wed Jul  9 07:28:00 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307081217040.25076-100000@mast.metacard.com>
Message-ID: <1fxtu7e.ie0y5g187q69pM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Scott Raney <raney at metacard.com> wrote:

> This decision has now bitten them (and you!) in the ass because the
> display system uses a different character encoding than the UNIX
> filesystem does, making stuff like this very hard to deal with because you
> have to do character-set conversions all over the place.

This is why I have to rename my "Le?ons de fran?ais" stack into a
"Lessons de franssais" one when migrating to OS X ;->

and now I have to migrate from MC to Rev... 


From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul  9 08:02:02 2003
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Wed Jul  9 08:02:02 2003
Subject: Congrats from a Digest user
Message-ID: <p05100300bb31bf6cfe7d@[62.30.170.185]>

It seems that all the news arrives too late for a humble digest 
reader to comment on, but I just wanted to add my congrats to RunRev 
for acquiring MetaCard, to Alan Golub for getting RevJournal up and 
running, and again to RunRev for getting a fully working demo of 
Version 2 onto the MacUser (UK) cover CD - at least that one only 
arrived on my doorstep this morning!

Seriously, the more success and positive publicity that RunRev has, 
the better for each and every developer.

Graham
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
          Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France


From tnally at aga-engineers.com  Wed Jul  9 08:42:00 2003
From: tnally at aga-engineers.com (Tomas Nally, P.E.)
Date: Wed Jul  9 08:42:00 2003
Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
Message-ID: <C61A3CBA9945E54B85C1C02F13E1E36D949C13@saint.aga-engineers.com>

> 
>   "Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology"
> 
> You can read all about it here:
> 
>    http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html
> 
 
If you look at the newly-crafted logo of the
Houston Rockets professional basketball franchise,
it also looks like Runtime has acquired the
Rockets.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/topstory/1985185

Now, Yao Ming can do Runrev commercials
in addition to Powerbook commercials.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they are addressed.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority,
states them to be the views of Albert-Garaudy and Associates, Inc.


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul  9 08:49:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul  9 08:49:00 2003
Subject: melting RUNREV logo
In-Reply-To: <C61A3CBA9945E54B85C1C02F13E1E36D949C13@saint.aga-engineers.com>
Message-ID: <20E5FA18-B213-11D7-882C-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Tomas,

>>   "Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology"
>>
>> You can read all about it here:
>>
>>    http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html
>
> If you look at the newly-crafted logo of the
> Houston Rockets professional basketball franchise,
> it also looks like Runtime has acquired the
> Rockets.
>
> http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/topstory/1985185

LOL.

Looks like the RR logo after a long and very hot scripting session :-D


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Wed Jul  9 08:52:02 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Wed Jul  9 08:52:02 2003
Subject: RUNREV acquires Metacard
Message-ID: <web-305417471@mail.maclaunch.com>

Congratulations!  That's fantastic......and....as a
Scot.....it is rather nice to see a Scots firm buying out a
US firm rather than the other way around........

One of my obsessions is to do with GUI design...having been
in education for the last 15 years I am always shocked at
how good software is spoilt by a bad user interface.

I discovered MetaCard before I discovered
RR..........frankly the GUI of MetaCard was such a turn-off
I felt no enthusiasm for it at all.   Now the GUI of RR is
really very good (especially if you install my green
interface hacks - plug, plug).

My main criticism of the MC GUI is that it makes things
relatively inaccessible to new would-be programmers.  I
tried out 'Mister X's' add-ons, and, frankly, I thought
they looked a bit like Windows 3.1........

While I realise that a diversity of tastes is a good thing
I do hope that any volunteers who are to continue working
with the MetaCard GUI can make it more user friendly.

It would be extremely nice if RR could release more
components of both the RR and MC home stacks for
individuals to 'mess around with' - ultimately leading to a
'Hack' website where
people can assemble their own GUI from modules that suit
their individual tastes and needs.

Maybe there could be some sort of legal framework /
gentleman's agreement whereby any interface mods would be
routed through RR before being made generally available -
allowing RR a fair degree of control.

Read this, shout at me, write abusive replies, come
on........now, exactly now, is the time for a democratic
intellectual ferment re the future of RR/MC - which claims
(!!!!) to empower users!

Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Wed Jul  9 08:56:04 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Wed Jul  9 08:56:04 2003
Subject: melting RUNREV logo
Message-ID: <web-305417522@mail.maclaunch.com>

While when cheese melts it stops being cheese (it becomes
fondue), there are many types of cheese (I personally
rather like 'crot du diable'!).

With the acquistion of Metacard there is an opportunity for
the creation of a whole cheese-shop rather than a mere
choice of 2 cheeses.  I rather fancy infecting RR with a
bit of Roquefort and getting a whole new GUI.

Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Wed Jul  9 10:12:00 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Wed Jul  9 10:12:00 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <200307081603.MAA07899@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB31FBA8.1FA2%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

> [...] So the script that works is
> this:
> 
> on mouseUp
> put "Hello Ken Ray" into tMyVar
> put "Goodbye" into tAnotherVar
> answer value("getSomeData(1,the date," & q(tMyVar)& "," &
> q(tAnotherVar) & ")",btn 2)
> end mouseUp
> 
> function q what
> return quote & what & quote
> end q
>
> Don't get me wrong, Joel... I personally prefer the elegance of the
> function "via" in SuperCard than with an extension to the value()
> function, and I support your request for this feature.

Thank you Ken!

The problem with the script you propose is that you can have variables with
values containing quotes and then the script will just fail. The best
workaround I found until yet is:

  call "myHandler var1,var2,var3" of myObject
  put the result into fctResult

This is working ok but not when a var type is an array!

Joel



From RGould8 at aol.com  Wed Jul  9 10:18:03 2003
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Wed Jul  9 10:18:03 2003
Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
Message-ID: <50.1f6df7ec.2c3d8a6d@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/8/2003 4:08:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
edgore at shinra.com writes:
If that's the case and all those brains are focused on RunRev, with it's 
great development environment, I can see good things ahead...

Time to buy stock! - - - - is RunRev a publicly-traded company?
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul  9 10:51:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul  9 10:51:00 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <BB31B944.1F9C%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <BB3185FF.3058E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jo?l Guillod wrote:

> Thanks for the idea! I have already implemented this solution with a
> snapshot and have been able to track for the location of the controls on
> windows under the toplevel. This works just fine but does not take into
> account that other applications are updating the content of their windows to
> give real-time feedback to user.

Do it only on an as-needed basis for the drag, then dispose of the stack.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul  9 10:53:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul  9 10:53:00 2003
Subject: MAC OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <1fxtu7e.ie0y5g187q69pM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <BB31867C.30590%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dom wrote:

> and now I have to migrate from MC to Rev...

Where did that come from?  The FAQ in the release page says otherwise.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Jul  9 10:57:01 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Wed Jul  9 10:57:01 2003
Subject: OS X  & iPhoto 2
In-Reply-To: <BB31852B.D70C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BB31852B.D70C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f00bb31e96201d7@[10.0.1.2]>

I am looking for a few beta testers who use iPhoto 2 and Rev.

My app runs nicely here but I need confirmation.

Please get in touch off-list at:  sims at ezpzapps.com

tia

sims
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From jiml at netrin.com  Wed Jul  9 11:05:00 2003
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Wed Jul  9 11:05:00 2003
Subject: How do you reduce Revolution's compiled program sizes?
In-Reply-To: <200307090952.FAA13491@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBICMMKLOIPMPOLALAOEHEFDAA.jiml@netrin.com>

<The avg prog size for rebol is only about 5k (as opposed to 1800K for
Revolution.) How did they manage to make Rebol so compact?>

As Bernard noted Revolution executables include the runtime engine. With
your REBOL example that 5k is just for the program code; Rev code is just as
light. The last time I looked (a few years ago) the REBOL engine added about
300k, but it didn't include much, if any, GUI stuff in those days.  By the
time you add that and other niceities, REBOL and Rev executables probably
weigh the same.

BTW, REBOL is really cool. With it Sassenrath took a very unique and
exciting approach to programming.

Jim Lambert
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03



From steve at messimercomputing.com  Wed Jul  9 11:08:01 2003
From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Stephen Messimer)
Date: Wed Jul  9 11:08:01 2003
Subject: Animation questions
Message-ID: <A89FBFD0-B226-11D7-BC01-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>

Hi folks,

I have a few basic questions about animations.

1.  Are animations Objects?

2.  Is there a way to store an animation in a group?

Thanks.

Steve

Stephen R. Messimer, PA
208 1st Ave. South	
Escanaba, MI 49829
www.messimercomputing.com
--
Macintosh G-4 OSX 10.2.5, OS 9.2.2, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.0 fc1



From jameslewes at comcast.net  Wed Jul  9 11:17:00 2003
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (James Lewes)
Date: Wed Jul  9 11:17:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <a05200f00bb31e96201d7@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <B660758F-B227-11D7-8ED7-000502F78A80@comcast.net>

I have a book coming out, on July 30, on the military antiwar-movement 
which emerged during the Vietnam War. I am currently thinking about a 
website to accompany the book. The site will include approximately 500 
images and I would like to make it searchable by content.

At the moment I am  playing with three possibilities:

1. to build a filemaker database and link to it with a web portal.

2. to build it with revolution and deploy the stack online and build a 
front page that would do the same thing. The latter appeals to me 
because it would enhance my programming skills

3. To use html.

Please advise me on what I should do



From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Wed Jul  9 11:45:00 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Wed Jul  9 11:45:00 2003
Subject: Saving stack with a large number of cds 
In-Reply-To: <200307090952.FAA13509@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB321141.1FA3%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

I have a stack with 13752 cards and found that it takes more than 40 secs to
save it after just having edited the script of the stack.

I run under MacOSX 10.2.6, G4 1Gz, 500MB RAM. Is this duration expected or
is there something wrong?

And do not try to open the Application Browser or a Property palette
otherwise it takes many minutes before giving me the hand back (of course,
it tries to load a list of all cds names...). After 5+ minutes, I canceled
it...

Cheers,

Joel



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul  9 11:47:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul  9 11:47:00 2003
Subject: Equivalence to the SuperCard function call "via" object
In-Reply-To: <BB31FBA8.1FA2%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <E95411DE-B22B-11D7-B826-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 09:04 AM, Jo?l Guillod wrote:

> The problem with the script you propose is that you can have variables 
> with
> values containing quotes and then the script will just fail. The best
> workaround I found until yet is:
>
>   call "myHandler var1,var2,var3" of myObject
>   put the result into fctResult

The TD says...

      The difference between the call and send commands
      is that the send command changes the context so
      that object references are treated relative
      to the object you send the message to,
      while the call command does not change the context
      and continues to treat object references relative
      to the original object.

The "send" also work with the above method.  Depending on your need 
concerning the target, send might be the one for you.

I use send a lot and I have found that my favorite way to pack 
parameters is to use variables.  (This is in the upcoming primer, too.)

> This is working ok but not when a var type is an array!

Also, numbers in internal format (the result of arithmetic and other 
functions) will be converted to strings based on the current 
numberFormat.  Well, that's the case with send and I assume that's the 
way it is with call.

It's the conversion to string that gets you in both cases.  (In the 
upcoming primer, as well.)

You may need to 'combine' the array, but with a new design, I'd try 
something else.  Globals?  The send and call commands don't have to 
return using 'the result', global variables and maybe custom properties 
can be used.  (Hmmm.  Maybe a custom property will do what you want.)


Jan and I tinkered with some very general schemes, but they were 
elaborate and slow and suitable only cases where generality was 
important and speed does not have to be the highest.  I think I'd look 
at send/call depending on your need.

Dar Scott




From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul  9 11:52:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul  9 11:52:01 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <BB304DD1.1F8A%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <B7777B20-B22C-11D7-B826-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 02:30 AM, Jo?l Guillod wrote:

> Is there a easy way to draw any line on screen?

Maybe you can draw a line in separate stack and use windowShape.

Alternatives to the line might be color matching, flashing, a tiny 
window that runs back and forth between the two, and putting the two 
windows as groups on the same large stack.

Dar Scott



From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Wed Jul  9 12:02:02 2003
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed Jul  9 12:02:02 2003
Subject: Where are examples of full-fledged commercial programs written with Revolution? 
In-Reply-To: <19b.17b7d4ad.2c3d1591@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ED5A6352-B22D-11D7-8275-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 11:52 PM, Antn at aol.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Other than the How-to-type program written by the programmers at 
> Runtime Revolution, what other major, commercial grade software has 
> been written with Revolution?
>
> I see the bits and pieces of code samples in the developers corner, 
> and the samples and utilities posted on Revolution-related websites, 
> but it would be nice to have a list of full fledged, heavy-duty 
> software too, especially OPEN SOURCE programs, with code included, or, 
> if not, at least commercial ones that can be downloaded for trial.
>
> This will act as a great motivational and learning tool. Thanks.
>
> Thanks.
>
>

While my apps were created in MC, they will eventually be maintained in 
Rev.  I have demo versions of each of them on my site:  
http://www.canelasoftware.com

These are just the apps we create for a general audience.  We have 
other apps that were created for smaller markets that are not 
advertised there.  We have tens of thousands of users running our apps 
on a daily basis.  In other words, Rev is totally ready for commercial 
grade software.


Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  9 12:06:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  9 12:06:01 2003
Subject: Saving stack with a large number of cds 
Message-ID: <200307091658.h69Gwvr52942@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Unfortunately, what you are seeing sounds about right. RunRev loads the whole stack into memory, and when you save it it actually backs up the old stack, saves out you changes to a new file, then, when it knows everything went well, it deletes the old file, so forty seconds is, if you think about it, really fast.

I'm guessing that this stack is a database-type-of-thing, and that you have groups that are on each card that hold all you data - right?

What you might try doing is adding a text data import/export function to your stack, and exporting all the data out to a text file to keep it safe, then ceating a smaller data set to use during development. THat way you can do all your development quickly with a small test data set, then, when things are where you like it, import the data into the revised stack. Going forward, you do all your development on the development stack, and when you are happy with it, export the data from the working stack and import it into the new version.

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod
><joel.guillod at net2000.ch>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 18:36:49
>
>I have a stack with 13752 cards and found that it
>takes more than 40 secs to
>save it after just having edited the script of the
>stack.
>
>I run under MacOSX 10.2.6, G4 1Gz, 500MB RAM. Is
>this duration expected or
>is there something wrong?
>
>And do not try to open the Application Browser or a
>Property palette
>otherwise it takes many minutes before giving me
>the hand back (of course,
>it tries to load a list of all cds names...). After
>5+ minutes, I canceled
>it...
>
>Cheers,
>
>Joel
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul  9 12:13:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul  9 12:13:01 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <B660758F-B227-11D7-8ED7-000502F78A80@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <85D44716-B22F-11D7-882C-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi James,

> I have a book coming out, on July 30, on the military antiwar-movement 
> which emerged
> during the Vietnam War. I am currently thinking about a website to 
> accompany the book.
> The site will include approximately 500 images and I would like to 
> make it searchable by content.
>
> At the moment I am  playing with three possibilities:
>
> 1. to build a filemaker database and link to it with a web portal.
>
> 2. to build it with revolution and deploy the stack online and build a 
> front page that would do the same thing. The latter appeals to me 
> because it would enhance my programming skills
>
> 3. To use html.
>
> Please advise me on what I should do

well, you might not be surprised that most, if not all users of this 
list
will recommend option 2 ;-)

And it sounds like a good idea, too.

You could store all (or most) searchable text including link-infos in
the front-end stack and just download what's currently needed...

And remember that you can set the filename of an image to an URL like
http:///www.server.com/folder/image.gif, a veeeeery handy feature ;-)

Please don't hesitate to ask this list if you need more 
info/help/assistance :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Jul  9 12:22:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed Jul  9 12:22:01 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <200307090952.FAA13472@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB319CCF.1BB5%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Joel,

> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:21:24 +0200
> Subject: Re: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
> From: Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod <joel.guillod at net2000.ch>
>
> To Ken, polygons allow to have connectors between two points with two
> segments at right angles (horizontal and vertical). This is for a pleasant
> look. Have a look to the way WebObjects Builder or Interface Builder is
> connecting two objects. This is better looking than an oblique line.
----------
I don't see any objects connected. Do you mean the section divider widgets?
I think if you make a polygon, it will want to complete a polygon, i.e.,
close it. Then you'll have to get rid of the part you don't want. I think
you'd be better off drawing line segments. Just IMO.

Best regards,
Ken N.



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Jul  9 12:30:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed Jul  9 12:30:01 2003
Subject: Image converesion failure
In-Reply-To: <200307090538.BAA00935@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB319E9D.1BB6%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hii Chipp,

> From: "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com>
> Subject: RE: Image converesion failure
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:07:30 -0500
> 
> I'm not a Mac User but, I seem to remember something about the new screen
> captures being saved as PDF's not PICT in Jaquar. So, perhaps you're trying
> to import a PDF?
----------
Well, I'm not using Jaguar...yet...so it's nonsequiter.

Still, taking a screenshot into a PDF makes no sense to me. 9 times out of
10 you'll have to convert it to something you can edit later...that'd be a
total waste of time, IMO.

Thanks anyway, though.

Ken N.



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Jul  9 12:40:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed Jul  9 12:40:00 2003
Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
In-Reply-To: <200307090538.BAA00935@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB31A0F5.1BB7%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi gang,

> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:25:30 -0500
> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> 
> Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this headline:
> 
> "Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology"
> 
> You can read all about it here:
> 
> http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html
> 
> Is this cool, or what? :-)
----------
Sounds cool to me. I think, in spite of RR's and MetaCard's  good
relationship, there has been an underlying fear that if anything ever went
wrong, Rev would be in serious trouble whenever the contract ran out. This
acquisition alleves that situation and opens the door to a very bright
future for both companies.

Best wishes,
Ken N.



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 12:42:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 12:42:01 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
Message-ID: <9E0065C2-B233-11D7-A935-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Hi,

No sucess with my problem for creating a new folder with applescript

that is my script


tell application "Finder"
	set tPath to "HD Macintosh/users/<myname>/test/testing"
	make new folder to tPath
end tell

doesn't work ?????

HELP

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be
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From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul  9 12:49:00 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Wed Jul  9 12:49:00 2003
Subject: revExecuteSql query
References: <20030709073558.45499.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003e01c34641$499bed40$0e231e3e@Jez2>

Great thanks. I think this would be useful in the documentation!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jan Schenkel" <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: revExecuteSql query


> --- Jez <jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > Is there any way to get the result of a
> > revExecuteSql statement? I'm getting
> > no indication of error when the sql has a problem,
> > and no indication of the
> > number of rows affected when it runs OK.
> >
> > (I'm accessing a Microsoft Access database via ODBC)
> >
>
> What do you get when you insert :
>   answer the result
> after your call to the 'revExecuteSQL' command ?
>
> You can also use the 'revdb_execute()' function ; the
> result of the call will then be put in the special
> 'it' variable.
>
> In fact, most of my code looks like :
>   put revdb_execute(tConnectionID, tSQLQuery) \
>       into tQueryResult
>   if char 1 to 8 of tQueryResult is "revdberr" then
>     answer error tQueryResult
>     exit MyHandler
>   end if
>   -- if everything went fine, proceed...
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."
(La Rochefoucauld)
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul  9 13:06:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul  9 13:06:00 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <B7777B20-B22C-11D7-B826-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BB31A5A4.305BB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> 
> On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 02:30 AM, Jo?l Guillod wrote:
> 
>> Is there a easy way to draw any line on screen?
> 
> Maybe you can draw a line in separate stack and use windowShape.
> 
> Alternatives to the line might be color matching, flashing, a tiny
> window that runs back and forth between the two, and putting the two
> windows as groups on the same large stack.

As long as an externals-based solution like the one you've been using is
undesirable, maybe another option is to rethink the design.

With the interleaved window layering in OS X now making the Mac platform
behave like all others in this regard, it opens up window management
questions that affect all multi-window application designs.

One common solution is to migrate multi-window designs to multiple panes
(groups) within a single window.  This works well for Outlook, iMovie, and
many others.

While this level of deep rethinking is indeed non-trivial, I suspect as
application designers become more intimately familiar with the ramifications
of multi-window UIs in an interleaving OS we'll see more, and eventually
most, moving in this direction.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Jul  9 13:06:27 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Jul  9 13:06:27 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <9E0065C2-B233-11D7-A935-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <00b501c34643$9a713750$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

Yves,
 
You can't use "/"-delimited paths in AppleScript (or I haven't been able
to get it to work). So I convert to ":" delimited, as in:
 
tell application "Finder"
  set tPath to "HD:Macintosh:Users:<myName>:test:testing"
  make new folder to tPath
end tell
 
This should work (of course, swap in the right path),
 
Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Yves COPPE
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 12:35 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder


Hi,

No sucess with my problem for creating a new folder with applescript

that is my script


tell application "Finder"
set tPath to "HD Macintosh/users/<myname>/test/testing"
make new folder to tPath
end tell

doesn't work ?????

HELP

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be

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From jameslewes at comcast.net  Wed Jul  9 13:19:01 2003
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (James Lewes)
Date: Wed Jul  9 13:19:01 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <85D44716-B22F-11D7-882C-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BB0244BE-B238-11D7-B8E3-000502F78A80@comcast.net>

Klaus

I have never used revolution to build a web interface and then deploy 
the interface online. Also, I am not sure how to build html links into 
revolution.

James
On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 01:05  PM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi James,
>
>> I have a book coming out, on July 30, on the military 
>> antiwar-movement which emerged
>> during the Vietnam War. I am currently thinking about a website to 
>> accompany the book.
>> The site will include approximately 500 images and I would like to 
>> make it searchable by content.
>>
>> At the moment I am  playing with three possibilities:
>>
>> 1. to build a filemaker database and link to it with a web portal.
>>
>> 2. to build it with revolution and deploy the stack online and build 
>> a front page that would do the same thing. The latter appeals to me 
>> because it would enhance my programming skills
>>
>> 3. To use html.
>>
>> Please advise me on what I should do
>
> well, you might not be surprised that most, if not all users of this 
> list
> will recommend option 2 ;-)
>
> And it sounds like a good idea, too.
>
> You could store all (or most) searchable text including link-infos in
> the front-end stack and just download what's currently needed...
>
> And remember that you can set the filename of an image to an URL like
> http:///www.server.com/folder/image.gif, a veeeeery handy feature ;-)
>
> Please don't hesitate to ask this list if you need more 
> info/help/assistance :-)
>
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 13:28:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 13:28:00 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <00b501c34643$9a713750$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <18B82B47-B23A-11D7-A935-003065E14B04@skynet.be>


Le mercredi, 9 juil 2003, ? 19:57 Europe/Brussels, Ken Ray a ?crit :

> Yves,
> ?
> You can't use "/"-delimited paths in AppleScript (or I haven't been 
> able to get it to work). So I convert to ":" delimited, as in:
> ?
> tell application "Finder"
> ? set tPath to "HD:Macintosh:Users:<myName>:test:testing"
> ? make new folder to tPath
> end tell
> ?
> This should work (of course, swap in the right path),
> ?
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>


Doesn't work
create a "untitled folder" on my desktop...

the same if I use ":" or "/" as delimiter

HELP

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be
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From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  9 13:35:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  9 13:35:01 2003
Subject: Need some help
Message-ID: <200307091827.h69IRdl81485@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

It sounds like your site is going to have relatively static content. To me that says do it in HTML and use something like HTDIG or the like to do the searching.

I would love to nudge you towards doing it in Revolution, but it doesn't seem like the best solution here.

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: James Lewes
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:09:26
>
>I have a book coming out, on July 30, on the
>military antiwar-movement 
>which emerged during the Vietnam War. I am
>currently thinking about a 
>website to accompany the book. The site will
>include approximately 500 
>images and I would like to make it searchable by
>content.
>
>At the moment I am  playing with three
>possibilities:
>
>1. to build a filemaker database and link to it
>with a web portal.
>
>2. to build it with revolution and deploy the stack
>online and build a 
>front page that would do the same thing. The latter
>appeals to me 
>because it would enhance my programming skills
>
>3. To use html.
>
>Please advise me on what I should do
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Jul  9 13:42:01 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed Jul  9 13:42:01 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <9E0065C2-B233-11D7-A935-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-FD885055B23B11D7A51400039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>

On 7/9/03 Yves COPPE wrote

>Hi,
>
>No sucess with my problem for creating a new folder with applescript
>
>that is my script
>
>
>tell application "Finder"
>   set tPath to "HD Macintosh/users/<myname>/test/testing"
>   make new folder to tPath
>end tell
>
>doesn't work ?????

I think your syntax might be incorrect.  Try:

tell application "Finder"
    make new folder at "HD Macintosh:users:<myname>:test" with properties {name:"testing"}
end tell


Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From jameslewes at comcast.net  Wed Jul  9 13:51:00 2003
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (James Lewes)
Date: Wed Jul  9 13:51:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <200307091827.h69IRdl81485@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <3C1E2BFB-B23D-11D7-810B-000502F78A80@comcast.net>

ah, but the challenge appeals to me.


On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 05:27  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> It sounds like your site is going to have relatively static content. 
> To me that says do it in HTML and use something like HTDIG or the like 
> to do the searching.
>
> I would love to nudge you towards doing it in Revolution, but it 
> doesn't seem like the best solution here.
>
>> ----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>> From: James Lewes
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:09:26
>>
>> I have a book coming out, on July 30, on the
>> military antiwar-movement
>> which emerged during the Vietnam War. I am
>> currently thinking about a
>> website to accompany the book. The site will
>> include approximately 500
>> images and I would like to make it searchable by
>> content.
>>
>> At the moment I am  playing with three
>> possibilities:
>>
>> 1. to build a filemaker database and link to it
>> with a web portal.
>>
>> 2. to build it with revolution and deploy the stack
>> online and build a
>> front page that would do the same thing. The latter
>> appeals to me
>> because it would enhance my programming skills
>>
>> 3. To use html.
>>
>> Please advise me on what I should do
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>> tion
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 14:01:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:01:01 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-FD885055B23B11D7A51400039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>
Message-ID: <B2C48EB6-B23E-11D7-A935-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le mercredi, 9 juil 2003, ? 20:34 Europe/Brussels, Trevor DeVore a 
?crit :

>
> I think your syntax might be incorrect.  Try:
>
> tell application "Finder"
>     make new folder at "HD Macintosh:users:<myname>:test" with 
> properties {name:"testing"}
> end tell
>
>
>



we are further but
the folder is ALWAYS created on the desktop of the user.. the pathway 
is not respected

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul  9 14:10:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:10:00 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <9E0065C2-B233-11D7-A935-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <BB31B4F4.7CF3%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Yves COPPE"  wrote:

> No sucess with my problem for creating a new folder with applescript

Yves:

Klaus and I both offered you some solutions for your problem.  Did you try
them?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 14:14:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:14:00 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <BB31B4F4.7CF3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <FAD5140B-B240-11D7-B087-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le mercredi, 9 juil 2003, ? 21:03 Europe/Brussels, Scott Rossi a ?crit :

> Recently, "Yves COPPE"  wrote:
>
>> No sucess with my problem for creating a new folder with applescript
>
> Yves:
>
> Klaus and I both offered you some solutions for your problem.  Did you 
> try
> them?
>
>

Yes
No success...(discussed earlier...)

I'm struggling with applescript but without more success

(Sigh)

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul  9 14:19:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:19:00 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <FAD5140B-B240-11D7-B087-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <BB31B718.7CF7%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Yves COPPE"  wrote:

> No success...(discussed earlier...)

I would respectfully suggest re-reading the suggestions.  The 2nd suggestion
posted yesterday evening (using relative paths) appeared to work fine.  What
did not work with this option?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  9 14:22:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:22:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
Message-ID: <200307091914.h69JEd598053@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

In that case - go nuts!

If you want to be really crazy (and I mean REALLY CRAZY) then I would say that the most challenging thing to try would be to set up a standalone that resides on your webserver as a CGI and have that dynamically create html pages from templates based on the user's navigation and/or search input (in the form of a http-post).

Extra credit if you also create a web-based front end to manage the site!

I'm actually considering a project like this - it's possible, but it sure it nuts...

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: James Lewes
>Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:43:30
>
>ah, but the challenge appeals to me.
>
>
>On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 05:27  PM, Edwin
>Gore wrote:
>
>> It sounds like your site is going to have
>relatively static content. 
>> To me that says do it in HTML and use something
>like HTDIG or the like 
>> to do the searching.
>>
>> I would love to nudge you towards doing it in
>Revolution, but it 
>> doesn't seem like the best solution here.
>>
>>> ----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>>> From: James Lewes
>>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:09:26
>>>
>>> I have a book coming out, on July 30, on the
>>> military antiwar-movement
>>> which emerged during the Vietnam War. I am
>>> currently thinking about a
>>> website to accompany the book. The site will
>>> include approximately 500
>>> images and I would like to make it searchable by
>
>>> content.
>>>
>>> At the moment I am	playing with three
>>> possibilities:
>>>
>>> 1. to build a filemaker database and link to it
>>> with a web portal.
>>>
>>> 2. to build it with revolution and deploy the
>stack
>>> online and build a
>>> front page that would do the same thing. The
>latter
>>> appeals to me
>>> because it would enhance my programming skills
>>>
>>> 3. To use html.
>>>
>>> Please advise me on what I should do
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>
>>> tion
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Jul  9 14:25:00 2003
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:25:00 2003
Subject: Standalone crashes on exit
Message-ID: <OF904A5309.21F20051-ON85256D5E.00675BE7@sealedair.com>

I have just built my first app using Rev 2.0.1 (as returned by 
revAppVersion). My stack contains 2 small sub-stacks that are used for 
input/error dialogs. Each of them has an OK button that contains "close 
this stack". If I launch my standalone and immediately quit it, the exit 
is peaceful. However if any of the sub-stacks have been opened and closed, 
when I exit the main stack via "close this stack" it has a system level 
error. On Win2000 the error is "The instruction at 0x004a93cd referenced 
memory at 0x00002f04. The memory could not be read." On Mac OS X, the 
error is "The application has unexpectedly quit." Any ideas of how to 
prevent this behavior?

Kind Regards,
Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 14:31:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:31:00 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <BB31B718.7CF7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <3D7A541C-B243-11D7-B087-000393533246@skynet.be>


Le mercredi, 9 juil 2003, ? 21:12 Europe/Brussels, Scott Rossi a ?crit :

> Recently, "Yves COPPE"  wrote:
>
>> No success...(discussed earlier...)
>
> I would respectfully suggest re-reading the suggestions.  The 2nd 
> suggestion
> posted yesterday evening (using relative paths) appeared to work fine. 
>  What
> did not work with this option?
>
> Regards,
>



I've answered : if the path contains diacriticals chars it won't work :

It doesn't work if in your path you have an existing folder wtih
diacriticals

f. ex.
myPath is     /users/<myName>/xxx/yyy/????

then
add your code

 > create folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder") >rename folder (myPath & 
"/newuserfolder") to (myPath & "/?????") >it won't work !!!!

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be
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From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Jul  9 14:38:01 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:38:01 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <B2C48EB6-B23E-11D7-A935-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-D1E831D4B24311D7A51400039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>

On 7/9/03 Yves COPPE wrote

>
>Le mercredi, 9 juil 2003, ? 20:34 Europe/Brussels, Trevor DeVore a 
>?crit :
>
>>
>> I think your syntax might be incorrect.  Try:
>>
>> tell application "Finder"
>>     make new folder at "HD Macintosh:users:<myname>:test" with 
>> properties {name:"testing"}
>> end tell
>>
>we are further but
>the folder is ALWAYS created on the desktop of the user.. the pathway 
>is not respected

Does the folder 'test' already exist?  If not then that causes problems with the above script.

You can check if a folder exists like this:

tell application "Finder"
    if not ("Macintosh HD:users:tdevore:t?st" exists) then
        make new folder at "Macintosh HD:users:tdevore" with properties {name:"t?st"}
    end if
    make new folder at "Macintosh HD:users:tdevore:t?st" with properties {name:"t?sting"}
end tell

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul  9 14:44:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:44:00 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <3D7A541C-B243-11D7-B087-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <BB31BCF5.7D0A%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Yves COPPE"  wrote:

> I've answered : if the path contains diacriticals chars it won't work :
> 
> It doesn't work if in your path you have an existing folder wtih
> diacriticals 
> 
> f. ex. 
> myPath is     /users/<myName>/xxx/yyy/????
> 
> then 
> add your code 
> 
>> create folder (myPath & "/newuserfolder") >rename folder (myPath &
>> "/newuserfolder") to (myPath & "/?????") >it won't work !!!!


I've answered as well.  The following worked for me in all cases.  Did you
even try it?

on mouseUp
  # START WITH FOLDER NAME
  put "?????" into tName
  
  # ESTABLISH THE BASE PATH
  set itemDel to "/"
  put item 1 to -2 of the filename of this stack into mypath
  set the directory to mypath
  
  # OPTION 1 - CREATE FOLDER IN CURRENT DIRECTORY
  create folder "newuserfolder"
  rename folder "newuserfolder" to tName
  
  # OPTION 2 - CREATE NEW FOLDER ONE FOLDER UP IN HIERARCHY
  set the directory to "../"
  create folder "newuserfolder"
  rename folder "newuserfolder" to tName
  
  # OPTION 3 - CREATE FOLDER TWO FOLDERS UP IN HIERARCHY
  set the directory to "../"
  create folder "newuserfolder"
  rename folder "newuserfolder" to tName
end mouseUp

If I use relative paths, even when the paths include diacriticals, I can
create a folder and then rename it to whatever name is desired.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 14:51:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:51:01 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-D1E831D4B24311D7A51400039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>
Message-ID: <26895386-B246-11D7-B087-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hi Trevor

> You can check if a folder exists like this:
>
> tell application "Finder"
>     if not ("Macintosh HD:users:tdevore:t?st" exists) then
>         make new folder at "Macintosh HD:users:tdevore" with 
> properties {name:"t?st"}
>     end if
>     make new folder at "Macintosh HD:users:tdevore:t?st" with 
> properties {name:"t?sting"}
> end tell
>
>

It further create a folder on my desktop....

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Jul  9 15:01:00 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed Jul  9 15:01:00 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <26895386-B246-11D7-B087-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-24A9540EB24711D7A51400039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>

On 7/9/03 Yves COPPE wrote

>Hi Trevor
>
>> You can check if a folder exists like this:
>>
>> tell application "Finder"
>>     if not ("Macintosh HD:users:tdevore:t?st" exists) then
>>         make new folder at "Macintosh HD:users:tdevore" with 
>> properties {name:"t?st"}
>>     end if
>>     make new folder at "Macintosh HD:users:tdevore:t?st" with 
>> properties {name:"t?sting"}
>> end tell
>>
>>
>
>It further create a folder on my desktop....

Hmmmm.  D?sol?, mais I am no AppleScript expert (just barely learning) so I don't know what the problem is.  It works here.  Scott seemed to have a solution however.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul  9 15:08:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul  9 15:08:00 2003
Subject: Revolution's CGI Module - where is it???? 
In-Reply-To: <c3.35cb3774.2c3d18d0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <034FF98D-B248-11D7-A733-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 01:05  AM, Antn at aol.com wrote:

> Is the programming based on the same Revolution language as the 
> applications version?

It's just the runrev engine, trimmed down and without a GUI.

> How fast is it?

It's the same runrev engine we all use- and it's fast.

> How many instant requests can it handle, or how many requests can it 
> process/hour?
> Is this "Enterprise" Grade (excuse the IT-tekkie talk), in other 
> words, can it scale up to mission critical, hyper-volume sites and 
> maintain stability?

Usually CGI programs are not deployed in extremely high traffic web 
sites.

The reason for this is that the CGI interface is designed such that the 
web server starts the program up every time a request is made. That is 
a fork() call for every single request on the web app, and that's a lot 
of cpu cycles. (although with 3GHz multi-cpu servers, does it even 
matter?)

FastCGI, and PCGI were developed to address this shortcoming with CGI.

In contrast, web application servers such as PHP, ZOPE, Web Objects, 
Cold Fusion, and Tomcat are long running processes which the web server 
communicates with via a proxy, or the web app process is embedded in 
the web server as an extension. For each request made, the web app 
process is already in memory and probably already has a database 
connection opened up. Much faster.

So it all depends on your requirements.

> Can it be installed in a regular CGI directory on a regular webspace 
> account without accessing the root server?

Yes.

I'm sure someone else will answer the other questions. I don't actually 
use the CGI module. This is just my knowledge and what I've gleaned 
from the list.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From jameslewes at comcast.net  Wed Jul  9 15:21:00 2003
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (James Lewes)
Date: Wed Jul  9 15:21:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <200307091914.h69JEd598053@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <C0F4B470-B249-11D7-964F-000502F78A80@comcast.net>

How do I write scripts for CGI.  And having written them how do I get 
them to work in Revolution.

Also, Edwin as you and I both seem to be attempting to climb the same 
mountain, it might be good to put our heads together and see if we can 
make the climb easier.

James


On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 06:14  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> In that case - go nuts!
>
> If you want to be really crazy (and I mean REALLY CRAZY) then I would 
> say that the most challenging thing to try would be to set up a 
> standalone that resides on your webserver as a CGI and have that 
> dynamically create html pages from templates based on the user's 
> navigation and/or search input (in the form of a http-post).
>
> Extra credit if you also create a web-based front end to manage the 
> site!
>
> I'm actually considering a project like this - it's possible, but it 
> sure it nuts...
>
>> ----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>> From: James Lewes
>> Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:43:30
>>
>> ah, but the challenge appeals to me.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 05:27  PM, Edwin
>> Gore wrote:
>>
>>> It sounds like your site is going to have
>> relatively static content.
>>> To me that says do it in HTML and use something
>> like HTDIG or the like
>>> to do the searching.
>>>
>>> I would love to nudge you towards doing it in
>> Revolution, but it
>>> doesn't seem like the best solution here.
>>>
>>>> ----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>>>> From: James Lewes
>>>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:09:26
>>>>
>>>> I have a book coming out, on July 30, on the
>>>> military antiwar-movement
>>>> which emerged during the Vietnam War. I am
>>>> currently thinking about a
>>>> website to accompany the book. The site will
>>>> include approximately 500
>>>> images and I would like to make it searchable by
>>
>>>> content.
>>>>
>>>> At the moment I am	playing with three
>>>> possibilities:
>>>>
>>>> 1. to build a filemaker database and link to it
>>>> with a web portal.
>>>>
>>>> 2. to build it with revolution and deploy the
>> stack
>>>> online and build a
>>>> front page that would do the same thing. The
>> latter
>>>> appeals to me
>>>> because it would enhance my programming skills
>>>>
>>>> 3. To use html.
>>>>
>>>> Please advise me on what I should do
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>>
>>>> tion
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>> tion
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>> tion
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul  9 15:25:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul  9 15:25:00 2003
Subject: Image converesion failure
In-Reply-To: <BB319E9D.1BB6%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <761E30C3-B24A-11D7-A733-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 08:27  AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Well, I'm not using Jaguar...yet...so it's nonsequiter.
>
> Still, taking a screenshot into a PDF makes no sense to me. 9 times 
> out of
> 10 you'll have to convert it to something you can edit later...that'd 
> be a
> total waste of time, IMO.

It's actually very convenient. I take screenshots all the time and send 
the PDFs in email to coworkers. PDFs are just as editable as other 
image file types IMHO. Acrobat edits them directly. Photoshop can read 
them. PDF actually has an editing version history built into the 
document format. Maybe they are more editable than say a  PICT or BMP?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Wed Jul  9 15:27:00 2003
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed Jul  9 15:27:00 2003
Subject: AppleScript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-24A9540EB24711D7A51400039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>
Message-ID: <OF3DEE8838.A518D09E-ON85256D5E.006E8ACF-85256D5E.006F680B@sealedair.com>

Here's yet ANOTHER way.  I'm running Mac OS X 10.2.5.
-- ----------------------------------------------
tell application "Finder"
     set targetfolderpath to "Macintosh HD:Users:cassj:testfolder"  --
            "testfolder" already exists
     set newfoldername to "stoopidunderpants"
     if folder (targetfolderpath & ":" & newfoldername) exists then
           --do nothing
     else
           make new folder in folder targetfolderpath with properties
                   {name:newfoldername}
     end if
end tell
-- ----------------------------------------------

Hope this helps....Cassj




|---------+------------------------------------->
|         |           Trevor DeVore             |
|         |           <lists at mangomultimedia.com|
|         |           >                         |
|         |           Sent by:                  |
|         |           use-revolution-admin at lists|
|         |           .runrev.com               |
|         |                                     |
|         |                                     |
|         |           07/09/03 03:53 PM         |
|         |           Please respond to         |
|         |           use-revolution            |
|---------+------------------------------------->
  >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                                                                                            |
  |       To:       use-revolution at lists.runrev.com                                                                            |
  |       cc:                                                                                                                  |
  |       Subject:  Re: Applescript for creating a new folder                                                                  |
  >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




On 7/9/03 Yves COPPE wrote

>Hi Trevor
>
>> You can check if a folder exists like this:
>>
>> tell application "Finder"
>>     if not ("Macintosh HD:users:tdevore:t?st" exists) then
>>         make new folder at "Macintosh HD:users:tdevore" with
>> properties {name:"t?st"}
>>     end if
>>     make new folder at "Macintosh HD:users:tdevore:t?st" with
>> properties {name:"t?sting"}
>> end tell
>>
>>
>
>It further create a folder on my desktop....

Hmmmm.  D?sol?, mais I am no AppleScript expert (just barely learning) so I
don't know what the problem is.  It works here.  Scott seemed to have a
solution however.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul  9 15:29:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul  9 15:29:02 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <200307091827.h69IRdl81485@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <F562C75B-B24A-11D7-A733-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 03:27  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> It sounds like your site is going to have relatively static content. 
> To me that says do it in HTML and use something like HTDIG or the like 
> to do the searching.

BTW I would recommend Mnogosearch instead of HTDig. It does full text 
search on various SQL databases. It has a really nice indexer tool and 
is very flexible. http://mnogosearch.org/

But I think the poster should try to do it in Revolution! Getting there 
is all the fun right?


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 15:34:02 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 15:34:02 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <BB31BCF5.7D0A%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <2D2DF315-B24C-11D7-B087-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hi Scott,

> I've answered as well.  The following worked for me in all cases.  Did 
> you
> even try it?
>
> on mouseUp
>   # START WITH FOLDER NAME
>   put "?????" into tName
>
>   # ESTABLISH THE BASE PATH
>   set itemDel to "/"
>   put item 1 to -2 of the filename of this stack into mypath
>   set the directory to mypath
>
>   # OPTION 1 - CREATE FOLDER IN CURRENT DIRECTORY
>   create folder "newuserfolder"
>   rename folder "newuserfolder" to tName
>
>   # OPTION 2 - CREATE NEW FOLDER ONE FOLDER UP IN HIERARCHY
>   set the directory to "../"
>   create folder "newuserfolder"
>   rename folder "newuserfolder" to tName
>
>   # OPTION 3 - CREATE FOLDER TWO FOLDERS UP IN HIERARCHY
>   set the directory to "../"
>   create folder "newuserfolder"
>   rename folder "newuserfolder" to tName
> end mouseUp
>
> If I use relative paths, even when the paths include diacriticals, I 
> can
> create a folder and then rename it to whatever name is desired.
>
> Regards,
>
>


your script runs very well


BUT

I have to check when I create a folder if there are diacritical chars 
in the pathway before creating a new folder to set the directory to a 
relative pathway

then I have to know if the new futur folder has one or more 
diacriticals char

BUT


it  has an enormous advantage: it is the only script until now which 
works...!!!!!

Not easy but works however how much diacriticals chars there are in the 
pathway...


I will try to explore your script with more attention
I'll make a command from and use it anyway...

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul  9 15:43:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul  9 15:43:01 2003
Subject: Image converesion failure
In-Reply-To: <761E30C3-B24A-11D7-A733-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB31CAA1.30600%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 08:27  AM, Ken Norris wrote:
> 
>> Well, I'm not using Jaguar...yet...so it's nonsequiter.
>> 
>> Still, taking a screenshot into a PDF makes no sense to me. 9 times
>> out of
>> 10 you'll have to convert it to something you can edit later...that'd
>> be a
>> total waste of time, IMO.
> 
> It's actually very convenient. I take screenshots all the time and send
> the PDFs in email to coworkers. PDFs are just as editable as other
> image file types IMHO. Acrobat edits them directly. Photoshop can read
> them. PDF actually has an editing version history built into the
> document format. Maybe they are more editable than say a  PICT or BMP?

But with fewer tools able to edit them, and most of those tools being more
expensive. ;(

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 15:46:04 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 15:46:04 2003
Subject: AppleScript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <OF3DEE8838.A518D09E-ON85256D5E.006E8ACF-85256D5E.006F680B@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <DF3545DD-B24D-11D7-B087-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hi

>
> Here's yet ANOTHER way.  I'm running Mac OS X 10.2.5.
> -- ----------------------------------------------
> tell application "Finder"
>      set targetfolderpath to "Macintosh HD:Users:cassj:testfolder"  --
>             "testfolder" already exists
>      set newfoldername to "stoopidunderpants"
>      if folder (targetfolderpath & ":" & newfoldername) exists then
>            --do nothing
>      else
>            make new folder in folder targetfolderpath with properties
>                    {name:newfoldername}
>      end if
> end tell
> -- ----------------------------------------------
>
> Hope this helps....Cassj
>
>
>
>


works FINE
BUT

doesn't resolve my problem : it doesn't support diacritical 
chars...!!!!????
if the new created folder has a diacritical char, the folder is not 
created...

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul  9 15:52:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul  9 15:52:01 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <2D2DF315-B24C-11D7-B087-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <BB31CCE2.7D22%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Yves COPPE"  wrote:

> your script runs very well

...which is why you were requested to try it.


> BUT
> 
> I have to check when I create a folder if there are diacritical chars
> in the pathway before creating a new folder to set the directory to a
> relative pathway
> 
> then I have to know if the new futur folder has one or more
> diacriticals char

Actually, if you build your stack to always use the directory property to
create folders, instead of using the long path, you can create folders
wherever you want, even though the rename code will be redundant with
non-diacritical names.  There is no need to use two different functions.


> BUT
> 
> 
> it  has an enormous advantage: it is the only script until now which
> works...!!!!!
> 
> Not easy but works however how much diacriticals chars there are in the
> pathway...
> 
> 
> I will try to explore your script with more attention
> I'll make a command from and use it anyway...

A small "merci" would have been nice...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 15:55:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul  9 15:55:01 2003
Subject: AppleScript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <OF3DEE8838.A518D09E-ON85256D5E.006E8ACF-85256D5E.006F680B@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <0802E2B2-B24F-11D7-B087-000393533246@skynet.be>


Hi james
>
> Here's yet ANOTHER way.  I'm running Mac OS X 10.2.5.
> -- ----------------------------------------------
> tell application "Finder"
>      set targetfolderpath to "Macintosh HD:Users:cassj:testfolder"  --
>             "testfolder" already exists
>      set newfoldername to "stoopidunderpants"
>      if folder (targetfolderpath & ":" & newfoldername) exists then
>            --do nothing
>      else
>            make new folder in folder targetfolderpath with properties
>                    {name:newfoldername}
>      end if
> end tell
> -- ----------------------------------------------
>
> Hope this helps....Cassj
>
>
>

SORRY

IT WORKS.....!!!!!

FANTASTIC

MANY THANKS

also for every user who tried to help me
and special thansk to Scott

I have now 2 good solutions


Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Wed Jul  9 15:56:00 2003
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Wed Jul  9 15:56:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
Message-ID: <a05210601bb322eaa62d9@[192.168.1.100]>

I would suggest, gentlemen, that unless one has a lot of time on 
one's hands and needs the challenge, that using RunRev to make 
content management software for one site would be not a very good use 
of that time when there are numerous  packages written in Perl or PHP 
(such as pMachine) that already do that.

sqb


>Hi James,
>
>>I have a book coming out, on July 30, on the military 
>>antiwar-movement which emerged
>>during the Vietnam War. I am currently thinking about a website to 
>>accompany the book.
>>The site will include approximately 500 images and I would like to 
>>make it searchable by content.
>>
>>At the moment I am  playing with three possibilities:
>>
>>1. to build a filemaker database and link to it with a web portal.
>>
>>2. to build it with revolution and deploy the stack online and 
>>build a front page that would do the same thing. The latter appeals 
>>to me because it would enhance my programming skills
>>
>>3. To use html.
>>
>>Please advise me on what I should do
>
>well, you might not be surprised that most, if not all users of this list
>will recommend option 2 ;-)
>
>
>Klaus Major


From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  9 16:03:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  9 16:03:01 2003
Subject: Need some help
Message-ID: <200307092055.h69KtW134469@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

There is some good information on using the RunRev engine to execute cgi scripts here:

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/articles/tipoftheweek/6.html

It's also possible the create a standalone and install it on your server and then have it actually BE the application server and communicate through sockets. I haven't really started to play with the yet, but it seems like it would be very interesting to play with.

At this point I haven't really started to fool around with any of the server/CGI capabilites of RunRev - this is all just stuff that I have picked up from the list and various resources on the internet.

Right now I am struggling to just get a desktop version of my software finished, then (whenever that is) I'm going to start looking at what it would take to make a server-side version of it with a web interface.

The application that I am actually working on right now is designed for members of the Amazon affiliate program - it lets them create a database of the products that they want to offer, grabs the info about the products from Amazon's XML web service, then stores it locally. Users can then create html templates that are processed by my app into static web pages that are uploaded to a server. I'm not sure how long it's going to be before I move away from the desktop...


>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: James Lewes <jameslewes at comcast.net>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:13:07
>
>How do I write scripts for CGI.  And having written
>them how do I get 
>them to work in Revolution.
>
>Also, Edwin as you and I both seem to be attempting
>to climb the same 
>mountain, it might be good to put our heads
>together and see if we can 
>make the climb easier.
>
>James
>
>
>On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 06:14  PM, Edwin
>Gore wrote:
>
>> In that case - go nuts!
>>
>> If you want to be really crazy (and I mean REALLY
>CRAZY) then I would 
>> say that the most challenging thing to try would
>be to set up a 
>> standalone that resides on your webserver as a
>CGI and have that 
>> dynamically create html pages from templates
>based on the user's 
>> navigation and/or search input (in the form of a
>http-post).
>>
>> Extra credit if you also create a web-based front
>end to manage the 
>> site!
>>
>> I'm actually considering a project like this -
>it's possible, but it 
>> sure it nuts...
>>
>>> ----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>>> From: James Lewes
>>> Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:43:30
>>>
>>> ah, but the challenge appeals to me.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 05:27  PM, Edwin
>>> Gore wrote:
>>>
>>>> It sounds like your site is going to have
>>> relatively static content.
>>>> To me that says do it in HTML and use something
>
>>> like HTDIG or the like
>>>> to do the searching.
>>>>
>>>> I would love to nudge you towards doing it in
>>> Revolution, but it
>>>> doesn't seem like the best solution here.
>>>>
>>>>> ----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>>>>> From: James Lewes
>>>>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:09:26
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a book coming out, on July 30, on the
>>>>> military antiwar-movement
>>>>> which emerged during the Vietnam War. I am
>>>>> currently thinking about a
>>>>> website to accompany the book. The site will
>>>>> include approximately 500
>>>>> images and I would like to make it searchable
>by
>>>
>>>>> content.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the moment I am playing with three
>>>>> possibilities:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. to build a filemaker database and link to
>it
>>>>> with a web portal.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. to build it with revolution and deploy the
>>> stack
>>>>> online and build a
>>>>> front page that would do the same thing. The
>>> latter
>>>>> appeals to me
>>>>> because it would enhance my programming skills
>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. To use html.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please advise me on what I should do
>>>>>
>>>>>
>_______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>
>>>
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>
>>>
>>>>> tion
>>>> _______________________________________________
>
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>
>>> tion
>>>
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>
>>> tion
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Wed Jul  9 16:05:01 2003
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed Jul  9 16:05:01 2003
Subject: AppleScript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <DF3545DD-B24D-11D7-B087-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <OFDED8DBE3.DF91B798-ON85256D5E.007241A2-85256D5E.0072F866@sealedair.com>

Hmmm...

This worked fine for me, and merrily created the folder with diacritical
marks...
--------------------------------------------------
tell application "Finder"
   set targetfolderpath to "Macintosh HD:Users:cassj:testfolder" --
            "testfolder" already exists
   set newfoldername to "???-????-???-???-???"
   if folder (targetfolderpath & ":" & newfoldername) exists then
      --do nothing
   else
      make new folder in folder targetfolderpath with properties
            {name:newfoldername}
   end if
end tell
--------------------------------------------------

I'm using Script Editor 2.0 (v20) (Beta Version)

-Cassj




|---------+------------------------------------->
|         |           Yves COPPE                |
|         |           <yvescoppe at skynet.be>     |
|         |           Sent by:                  |
|         |           use-revolution-admin at lists|
|         |           .runrev.com               |
|         |                                     |
|         |                                     |
|         |           07/09/03 04:42 PM         |
|         |           Please respond to         |
|         |           use-revolution            |
|---------+------------------------------------->
  >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                                                                                            |
  |       To:       use-revolution at lists.runrev.com                                                                            |
  |       cc:                                                                                                                  |
  |       Subject:  Re: AppleScript for creating a new folder                                                                  |
  >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|





Hi

>
> Here's yet ANOTHER way.  I'm running Mac OS X 10.2.5.
> -- ----------------------------------------------
> tell application "Finder"
>      set targetfolderpath to "Macintosh HD:Users:cassj:testfolder"  --
>             "testfolder" already exists
>      set newfoldername to "stoopidunderpants"
>      if folder (targetfolderpath & ":" & newfoldername) exists then
>            --do nothing
>      else
>            make new folder in folder targetfolderpath with properties
>                    {name:newfoldername}
>      end if
> end tell
> -- ----------------------------------------------
>
> Hope this helps....Cassj
>
>
>
>


works FINE
BUT

doesn't resolve my problem : it doesn't support diacritical
chars...!!!!????
if the new created folder has a diacritical char, the folder is not
created...

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  9 16:13:05 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  9 16:13:05 2003
Subject: Need some help
Message-ID: <200307092105.h69L5ZD37411@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Oh, I completely agree. Though if you do want a challenge you can go way overboard with it!

It sort of reminds of something from Douglas Adams' "Last Chance To See". One of the endangered animals he visited incubates it's eggs by creating a great pile of crap (leaves, etc) and, as I recall, counts on the decomposition heat generated to incubate the eggs. After it builds it's mound, the bird has to constantly monitor the heat and add and remove material from the pile to keep the temp. just right. Adams pointed out that it would have been FAR easier if the bird had just sat on the eggs to keep them warm.

Of course Adams then proceeded to write a very complicated hypercard stack to simulate how the whole heating system worked, calculating mass to heat, with lots of bells and whistles, and a nice user interface. He used it twice. He then realized that it would have taken him about five minutes to satisfy his curiousity about the process using the calculator desk accessory instead.

Theres a lesson there. If something is worth doing, then it's worth overdoing!

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Stephen Quinn Barncard

>Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:46:39
>
>I would suggest, gentlemen, that unless one has a
>lot of time on 
>one's hands and needs the challenge, that using
>RunRev to make 
>content management software for one site would be
>not a very good use 
>of that time when there are numerous  packages
>written in Perl or PHP 
>(such as pMachine) that already do that.
>
>sqb
>
>
>>Hi James,
>>
>>>I have a book coming out, on July 30, on the
>military 
>>>antiwar-movement which emerged
>>>during the Vietnam War. I am currently thinking
>about a website to 
>>>accompany the book.
>>>The site will include approximately 500 images
>and I would like to 
>>>make it searchable by content.
>>>
>>>At the moment I am  playing with three
>possibilities:
>>>
>>>1. to build a filemaker database and link to it
>with a web portal.
>>>
>>>2. to build it with revolution and deploy the
>stack online and 
>>>build a front page that would do the same thing.
>The latter appeals 
>>>to me because it would enhance my programming
>skills
>>>
>>>3. To use html.
>>>
>>>Please advise me on what I should do
>>
>>well, you might not be surprised that most, if not
>all users of this list
>>will recommend option 2 ;-)
>>
>>
>>Klaus Major
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul  9 16:21:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul  9 16:21:01 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <200307092105.h69L5ZD37411@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <3144EB22-B252-11D7-882C-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi folks,

> Oh, I completely agree. Though if you do want a challenge you can go 
> way overboard with it!
>
> It sort of reminds of something from Douglas Adams' "Last Chance To 
> See". One of the endangered animals he visited incubates it's eggs by 
> creating a great pile of crap (leaves, etc) and, as I recall, counts 
> on the decomposition heat generated to incubate the eggs. After it 
> builds it's mound, the bird has to constantly monitor the heat and add 
> and remove material from the pile to keep the temp. just right. Adams 
> pointed out that it would have been FAR easier if the bird had just 
> sat on the eggs to keep the
> m warm.
>
> Of course Adams then proceeded to write a very complicated hypercard 
> stack to simulate how the whole heating system worked, calculating 
> mass to heat, with lots of bells and whistles, and a nice user 
> interface. He used it twice. He then realized that it would have taken 
> him about five minutes to satisfy his curiousity about the process 
> using the calculator desk accessory instead.
>
> Theres a lesson there. If something is worth doing, then it's worth 
> overdoing!
>
>> ----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>> From: Stephen Quinn Barncard
>
>> Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:46:39
>>
>> I would suggest, gentlemen, that unless one has a
>> lot of time on
>> one's hands and needs the challenge, that using
>> RunRev to make
>> content management software for one site would be
>> not a very good use
>> of that time when there are numerous  packages
>> written in Perl or PHP
>> (such as pMachine) that already do that.
>>
>> sqb

so sorry, gentlemen, mea culpa! ;-)

Maybe i misunderstood what James was trying to do.

It sounded to me like a frontend for some (hundreds of) images and text 
files on a server,
or the text fiels even stored in the front end stack, if possible.
(A simple "database" structure with about 500 entries, the ideal job 
for RR...)

And that is something that could be easily done with RR even for a 
novice :-)
(With the ususal kind assistance of this list :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Jul  9 16:54:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed Jul  9 16:54:01 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <B660758F-B227-11D7-8ED7-000502F78A80@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCIEHFFIAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Hi James,

I've actually done what Edwin has discussed -- create a Content Management
System using RR as the front end. It's project which has been in creation
for over 2 years, called Hemingway and you can check it out at

www.altuit.com

The Server is based on .asp, COM and SQL Server --all Microsoft
technologies.

It's very powerful and RR provides a great client platform. Problem is, our
ASP is a bit pricey at $480/yr (including hosting), but if you're
interested, contact me offlist and we can discuss some options. There are a
number of free trials available, and the RR HemPC client has just moved out
of beta (the client only works on PC at this time). It also works using a
standard browser as a front end (Mac users use this option).

That being said, if you already have a web-hosting provider, and are
somewhat familiar with FileMaker, you could also consider using Richard
Gaskin's fine product: WebMerge.


From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul  9 17:22:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul  9 17:22:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
Message-ID: <200307092214.h69MEoq61539@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Excellent suggestion Chipp - Webmerge is a great product and would be very well suited for this - plus there's a trial version!

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:49:20
>
>Hi James,
>
>I've actually done what Edwin has discussed --
>create a Content Management
>System using RR as the front end. It's project
>which has been in creation
>for over 2 years, called Hemingway and you can
>check it out at
>
>www.altuit.com
>
>The Server is based on .asp, COM and SQL Server
>--all Microsoft
>technologies.
>
>It's very powerful and RR provides a great client
>platform. Problem is, our
>ASP is a bit pricey at $480/yr (including hosting),
>but if you're
>interested, contact me offlist and we can discuss
>some options. There are a
>number of free trials available, and the RR HemPC
>client has just moved out
>of beta (the client only works on PC at this time).
>It also works using a
>standard browser as a front end (Mac users use this
>option).
>
>That being said, if you already have a web-hosting
>provider, and are
>somewhat familiar with FileMaker, you could also
>consider using Richard
>Gaskin's fine product: WebMerge.
>
>>From his website:
>
>"WebMerge generates static Web pages from database
>files. Build catalogs,
>e-zines, contact lists, image galleries and more,
>quickly and easily."
>
>(Hey Richard, does this count towards my affiliate
>program;-)
>
>www.fourthworld.com/index.html
>
>good luck!
>
>-Chipp
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Jul  9 17:58:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Jul  9 17:58:00 2003
Subject: revExecuteSql query
In-Reply-To: <1030709174209.3f0bc751.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.65946@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <5675C900-B25F-11D7-8162-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

As well as reporting "revdberr" if there is a problem, the result of 
revExecuteSQL will contain the number of rows affected if it is 
successful.

Sarah

On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 05:42  pm, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> --- Jez <jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Is there any way to get the result of a
>> revExecuteSql statement? I'm getting
>> no indication of error when the sql has a problem,
>> and no indication of the
>> number of rows affected when it runs OK.
>>
>> (I'm accessing a Microsoft Access database via ODBC)
>>
>
> What do you get when you insert :
>   answer the result
> after your call to the 'revExecuteSQL' command ?
>
> You can also use the 'revdb_execute()' function ; the
> result of the call will then be put in the special
> 'it' variable.
>
> In fact, most of my code looks like :
>   put revdb_execute(tConnectionID, tSQLQuery) \
>       into tQueryResult
>   if char 1 to 8 of tQueryResult is "revdberr" then
>     answer error tQueryResult
>     exit MyHandler
>   end if
>   -- if everything went fine, proceed...
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul  9 18:00:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul  9 18:00:01 2003
Subject: Revolution's CGI Module - where is it???? 
In-Reply-To: <034FF98D-B248-11D7-A733-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <15049C52-B260-11D7-B826-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 02:00 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>> Is the programming based on the same Revolution language as the 
>> applications version?
>
> It's just the runrev engine, trimmed down and without a GUI.

I'd like to use this as a script engine.

Do I get a particular engine or can I use the engines I have?  Anything 
else I should know?  What platforms can i use this on?  What do I type 
in terminal or in a command window?

I wonder how the recent acquisition will affect this.

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul  9 18:14:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul  9 18:14:00 2003
Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
In-Reply-To: <BB31A0F5.1BB7%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <033A4D07-B262-11D7-B826-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 08:37 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Sounds cool to me. I think, in spite of RR's and MetaCard's  good
> relationship, there has been an underlying fear that if anything ever 
> went
> wrong, Rev would be in serious trouble whenever the contract ran out. 
> This
> acquisition alleves that situation and opens the door to a very bright
> future for both companies.

I don't think there was ever a need for that fear.  I am confident that 
Kevin had and has all contingencies covered, including any new 
scenarios that have come up.

Dar Scott



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Wed Jul  9 19:33:00 2003
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Wed Jul  9 19:33:00 2003
Subject: Applescript for creating a new folder
In-Reply-To: <200307091909.PAA04978@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1497BC1C-B26D-11D7-90C0-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Thursday, Jul 10, 2003, at 05:09 Australia/Sydney, Trevor DeVore 
<lists at mangomultimedia.com> wrote:
>
> On 7/9/03 Yves COPPE wrote
>
>> Hi Trevor
>>
>>> You can check if a folder exists like this:
>>>
>>> tell application "Finder"
>>>     if not ("Macintosh HD:Users:tdevore:t?st" exists) then
>>>         make new folder at "Macintosh HD:Users:tdevore" with
>>> properties {name:"t?st"}
>>>     end if
>>>     make new folder at "Macintosh HD:Users:tdevore:t?st" with
>>> properties {name:"t?sting"}
>>> end tell
>>>
>>
>> It further create a folder on my desktop....

Yves

I am pleased you now have two working solutions. I have filed them away 
for my own information. You may have a third in Trevor's above 
suggestion as well. It worked for me when I tried it, so I did a little 
bit of more testing, naming non-existent Volumes both in Applescript 
and using Rev's create folder. Applescript gave an execution error but 
with Rev the folder was still created but in the current default path, 
which in your case may coincidentally have been your desktop.

No need to reply to this conjecture but it might be helpful in a future 
case. Usually, if an experienced helper (e.g. Scott, not to mention 
Trevor and others) says something works, it is because they have 
already proven it to themselves, so it makes sense to look for other 
possible differences in the testing.

regards
David

>
> Hmmmm.  D?sol?, mais I am no AppleScript expert (just barely learning) 
> so I don't know what the problem is.  It works here.  Scott seemed to 
> have a solution however.
>
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul  9 19:50:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul  9 19:50:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] Explosive Demo Stack
Message-ID: <BB32048F.7D76%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Howdy Lists:

For better or for worse, it is human nature to destroy things...  Thus we
have a new demo stack available via our stack viewer which provides a couple
of examples of explosion animation: explode a line of image text or shatter
a box into little images.  Based on our previously announced Ease stack,
this stack is called TNT (scroll to the bottom of the list).

To get the stack, enter one of the following in your Rev or MC message box:

  go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"

  go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.mc"

Have fun being destructive...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From dan at shafermedia.com  Wed Jul  9 20:46:00 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed Jul  9 20:46:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
Message-ID: <4D28A679-B277-11D7-A31E-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

James....

I'd strongly recommend *against* using FileMaker Pro for this task. 
FMPro is a peculiar duck, finding a decent hosting service for it is 
hard (but not impossible) and its performance is really pretty bad 
compared to almost any other approach.

I speak from experience. One of my clients has an existing FMPro 
database with about 500 text records in it. I'm building him a team 
site where the FMPro database will play a central role. I'm good at 
this stuff but it's taken me a lot longer to get the FMPro stuff 
working than the entire rest of the site.

Stay with RunRev.



From dan at shafermedia.com  Wed Jul  9 20:50:00 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed Jul  9 20:50:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
Message-ID: <D9C15EB0-B277-11D7-A31E-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

James....

HTML would be a good choice, but assuming you want to provide 
thumbnails from which people can select to see the larger image, laying 
out the page can be a bit of a challenge.

Also, it isn't clear to me how you'd manage the text search in that 
case unless you use either a database (in which case the complexity 
starts to approach that of doing it in RR to begin with) or use hidden 
fields (assuming you don't want to put keyword-looking captions on the 
pages themselves).



From jameslewes at comcast.net  Wed Jul  9 21:28:00 2003
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (James Lewes)
Date: Wed Jul  9 21:28:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <D9C15EB0-B277-11D7-A31E-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <035903C8-B27D-11D7-9DB0-000502F78A80@comcast.net>

I have thought of building a database because it would enable me to 
subdivide the group of images according to titles,. publication and 
content.  While I realize I can do this with html, it seems an overly 
restrictive format and presents little challenge. I already know how to 
do it in html, but I do not know how to do it in RR and therein lies 
the challenger and the problem, because I do not know how to do it and 
have had little luck in understanding sql. Also, as far as Filemaker 
pro goes I know how to do that, so it is same as html..

James

On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 09:43  PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> James....
>
> HTML would be a good choice, but assuming you want to provide 
> thumbnails from which people can select to see the larger image, 
> laying out the page can be a bit of a challenge.
>
> Also, it isn't clear to me how you'd manage the text search in that 
> case unless you use either a database (in which case the complexity 
> starts to approach that of doing it in RR to begin with) or use hidden 
> fields (assuming you don't want to put keyword-looking captions on the 
> pages themselves).
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Jul  9 23:08:00 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed Jul  9 23:08:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <035903C8-B27D-11D7-9DB0-000502F78A80@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <594E11A8-B28B-11D7-8579-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 07:20  PM, James Lewes wrote:

> I have thought of building a database because it would enable me to 
> subdivide the group of images according to titles,. publication and 
> content.  While I realize I can do this with html, it seems an overly 
> restrictive format and presents little challenge. I already know how 
> to do it in html, but I do not know how to do it in RR and therein 
> lies the challenger and the problem, because I do not know how to do 
> it and have had little luck in understanding sql. Also, as far as 
> Filemaker pro goes I know how to do that, so it is same as html..
>
> James

James

Although I have begun work on MTML 3.0 in RR I have this laying around 
that could work for you well perhaps. It's free and it handles topical 
searches, indexing, keyword searches, and multi-media. Someday there 
will be a full version based on all my parser experiments created in a 
single RR standalone. Until then maybe this will work: 
http://www.gizmotron.org/ebook/

When MTML 3.0 comes out it will use the same MTML Study Tool formating. 
So you will be able to offer it in the free to distribute standalone 
version.

Mark Brownell
Gizmotron Graphics



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 10 00:43:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Jul 10 00:43:01 2003
Subject: Standalone crashes on exit
In-Reply-To: <OF904A5309.21F20051-ON85256D5E.00675BE7@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <20030710053612.75540.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
> I have just built my first app using Rev 2.0.1 (as
> returned by 
> revAppVersion). My stack contains 2 small sub-stacks
> that are used for 
> input/error dialogs. Each of them has an OK button
> that contains "close 
> this stack". If I launch my standalone and
> immediately quit it, the exit 
> is peaceful. However if any of the sub-stacks have
> been opened and closed, 
> when I exit the main stack via "close this stack" it
> has a system level 
> error. On Win2000 the error is "The instruction at
> 0x004a93cd referenced 
> memory at 0x00002f04. The memory could not be read."
> On Mac OS X, the 
> error is "The application has unexpectedly quit."
> Any ideas of how to 
> prevent this behavior?
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Roger Eller
> 

What happens when you insert this in your stack
script?
  on closeStack
    if the target is me then quit
  end closeStack

Another thing to check : is it possible that there are
still pending messages when the stack is closed ?

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From Antn at aol.com  Thu Jul 10 02:12:00 2003
From: Antn at aol.com (Antn at aol.com)
Date: Thu Jul 10 02:12:00 2003
Subject: Revolution license restrictions
Message-ID: <4b.31135228.2c3d0231@aol.com>

Hi,

I am new to Revolution, so far I find it very impressive and I am trying to 
learn it. 

However, I find the ten line limit a bit restrictive, even after reading the 
suggested work-around methods. 

I would like to get the student version and see if I can get up to speed on 
it, then I will like to upgrade to the small business edition. 

Is this possible? Will I get credit for the $99 I paid for the student 
version?

Another question:  What exactly are the restrictions on the student version? 
One part of the site says that it cant be used to distribute commercial 
software, and another part (a chart listing the different license options,) under 
"restrictions", indicates "none".

How does Runtime Revolutions, Inc know whether students are writing 
commercial programs with the software? Is it an honor code thing or is there a physical 
restriction on the software to prevent commercial sales from the compiled 
programs? 

For instance, does software compiled on the student version generate a 
graphic like "STUDENT VERSION - NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE),  or something else that 
prevents the software from being distributed commercially?

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From Antn at aol.com  Thu Jul 10 02:12:28 2003
From: Antn at aol.com (Antn at aol.com)
Date: Thu Jul 10 02:12:28 2003
Subject: Revolution's CGI Module - where is it????
Message-ID: <183.1dbad026.2c3d0436@aol.com>

Hi,

I saw on the posts recently a mention of the availabilty of a CGI module for 
Revolution. This module is supposed to be available on request. 
Questions: 
How do you request it? 
How do you program it?
Is it past beta stage? 
Are there any write-ups or documentation on it?
Are there any pre-programmed code samples available for common web functions 
(like shopping cart, form processing, database information storage, retrieval, 
processing, credit card processing, etc?)
Is the programming based on the same Revolution language as the applications 
version?
How fast is it?
How many instant requests can it handle, or how many requests can it 
process/hour?

Thanks
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From Antn at aol.com  Thu Jul 10 02:12:42 2003
From: Antn at aol.com (Antn at aol.com)
Date: Thu Jul 10 02:12:42 2003
Subject: How do you reduce Revolution's compiled program sizes?
Message-ID: <70.300d97ee.2c3d07d0@aol.com>

Hi,

I notice that all programs compiled with Revolutions are on the heavy side 
(at least 1.8 megs,) even after you minimize usage of the optional libraries. 

Is it because Revolution packs the runtime libraries along with every 
compiled project like Visual Basic does?

I prefer Revolution to VB or C++ because it appears to be much easier to 
learn and use (not to mention it's cross platform feature), however, I am envious 
of the compactness of C++.

Why is C++ so small as compared to Revolution?

A program that is cross-platform like Revolution, but extremely compact is 
Rebol. (http://www.rebol.com) The avg prog size for rebol is only about 5k (as 
opposed to 1800K for Revolution.) How did they manage to make Rebol so compact?

Other than reducing the associated libraries, avoiding media files (graphics, 
audio, video, etc.) what tricks and tips can be used to make Revolution 
produce leaner and trimer executables? 
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From Antn at aol.com  Thu Jul 10 02:12:58 2003
From: Antn at aol.com (Antn at aol.com)
Date: Thu Jul 10 02:12:58 2003
Subject: Where are examples of full-fledged commercial programs written with Revolution?
Message-ID: <143.14af778d.2c3d09a4@aol.com>

Hi,

Other than the How-to-type program written by the programmers at Runtime 
Revolution, what other major, commercial grade software has been written with 
Revolution? 

I see the bits and pieces of code samples in the developers corner, and the 
samples and utilities posted on Revolution-related websites, but it would be 
nice to have a list of full fledged, heavy-duty software too, especially OPEN 
SOURCE programs, with code included, or, if not, at least commercial ones that 
can be downloaded for trial.

This will act as a great motivational and learning tool. Thanks.

Thanks. 
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From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 10 02:20:03 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 10 02:20:03 2003
Subject: Saving stack with a large number of cds 
In-Reply-To: <BB321141.1FA3%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <DB13A474-B2A5-11D7-B8A7-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

As noted by Edwin, this is a consequence of the way Revolution handles 
stacks (loading them entirely into memory). Consider storing the data 
externally and reading it in. On a machine like that the data could be 
as much as 50MB or more and probably you could still read it into an 
array and reference it into a 1-card stack. It would be much faster 
that way.

On the Application Browser, take a look at revNavigator (shareware I 
wrote) it does many of the same things, and allows you to limit the 
number of cards to be displayed while still displaying whichever card 
you're on.

On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 09:36  AM, Jo?l Guillod wrote:

> I have a stack with 13752 cards and found that it takes more than 40 
> secs to
> save it after just having edited the script of the stack.
>
> I run under MacOSX 10.2.6, G4 1Gz, 500MB RAM. Is this duration 
> expected or
> is there something wrong?
>
> And do not try to open the Application Browser or a Property palette
> otherwise it takes many minutes before giving me the hand back (of 
> course,
> it tries to load a list of all cds names...). After 5+ minutes, I 
> canceled
> it...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joel
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Thu Jul 10 03:05:00 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Thu Jul 10 03:05:00 2003
Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
In-Reply-To: <50.1f6df7ec.2c3d8a6d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FB259605-B2AB-11D7-99E5-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

Hi RGould,

On Wednesday, Jul 9, 2003, at 17:10 Europe/Vienna, RGould8 at aol.com 
wrote:

> In a message dated 7/8/2003 4:08:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
> edgore at shinra.com writes:
>
> If that's the case and all those brains are focused on RunRev, with 
> it's great development environment, I can see good things ahead...
>
> ?
> Time to buy stock! - - - - is RunRev a publicly-traded company?

Whoooow! your first non html posting...
How did you you do it..?;)

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Thu Jul 10 03:18:00 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Thu Jul 10 03:18:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <200307091827.h69IRdl81485@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <CA6FC83C-B2AD-11D7-99E5-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

Hi James,
On Wednesday, Jul 9, 2003, at 23:27 Europe/Vienna, Edwin Gore wrote:

>> From: James Lewes
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:09:26
>>
>> I have a book coming out, on July 30, on the
>> military antiwar-movement
>> which emerged during the Vietnam War. I am
>> currently thinking about a
>> website to accompany the book. The site will
>> include approximately 500
>> images and I would like to make it searchable by
>> content.

If you are on a Mac, have a look at Freeway (or another grafical Editor 
Dreamweaver, Golive) to do it in html, and have also a look at Richard 
Gaskins WebMerge 2.2. This seems a great and cost effectiv solution for 
your project, if you dont need a dynamic db connection with a SQL or FM 
Pro db.
my 2 cent

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Thu Jul 10 03:46:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Thu Jul 10 03:46:01 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <D9C15EB0-B277-11D7-A31E-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <C8053794-B2B1-11D7-99E5-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Thursday, Jul 10, 2003, at 03:43 Europe/Vienna, Dan Shafer wrote:

> HTML would be a good choice, but assuming you want to provide 
> thumbnails from which people can select to see the larger image, 
> laying out the page can be a bit of a challenge.

right, so have a look at: ThumbsUp 3.1
http://www.daevon-technologies.com

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From igor at pixelmedia.com.au  Thu Jul 10 04:09:01 2003
From: igor at pixelmedia.com.au (Igor Couto)
Date: Thu Jul 10 04:09:01 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <BB31A5A4.305BB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <473D37D0-B2B5-11D7-9ACF-000393AD9396@pixelmedia.com.au>

Hi all,

On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 03:57  AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 02:30 AM, Jo?l Guillod wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a easy way to draw any line on screen?
>>
>> Maybe you can draw a line in separate stack and use windowShape.
>>

Without having tried any of this, how about this solution:

1) Make a stack with only 1 single object - a line.

2) Using the windowShape property, set the stack to be totally 
transparent (you can do this by using an image which is totally 
transparent as the 'shape' for the windowShape property).

This means that in this stack, the only object able to be seen and to 
receive user-triggered events is the LINE you placed previously. This 
stack is effectively THE CONNECTING LINE you wish to 'draw' between the 
2 drag-and-drop points.

3) Hide the 'line stack'.

Now, the tricky part: you want the line to SHOW up when the user first 
clicks down on 'stack 1', RESIZES as the user moves the mouse, and then 
HIDE when the user releases the mouse over 'stack 2' (I suppose this is 
the behaviour you want). To do this:

1) 'Stack 1' must have a handler 'on mouseDown', which SHOWS the stack 
'line', resizes the line, and positions it right underneath the mouse 
cursor.

2) the 'Line' stack has to have a handler 'on mouseMove' that RESIZES 
the line (ie, re-sets the 'points' property of the line).

3) the 'Line' stack also has to have a handler 'on mouseUp' that hides 
itself.

As I said, I haven't actually tried implementing any of this, but in my 
(Rev newbie) mind, it feels as if it should work!

Good Luck!
--
Igor de Oliveira Couto
----------------------------------
igor at pixelmedia.com.au
----------------------------------



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Thu Jul 10 06:12:01 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Thu Jul 10 06:12:01 2003
Subject: Color Chooser
Message-ID: <web-305437946@mail.maclaunch.com>

Dear RR afficionados,
    A few weeks ago one or two people were complaining
about the Color Chooser in RR 2.0.1:
I then suggested something vaguely illegal............

here is something that should not be illegal: a modified
revTools stack with an old-style Color Chooser as a
substack: just put it in your components folder in place of
the original revTools stack (make a backup of that
first)........

Top of the list on the 'files' page of my website.

Love, Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Thu Jul 10 06:22:00 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Thu Jul 10 06:22:00 2003
Subject: People looking for old versions of RR / MC
Message-ID: <web-305438094@mail.maclaunch.com>

It might be a good idea if RR could make available older
versions of RR and Metacard via a webpage as a service to
those who require them.  This is not quite as daft as it
seems as some poeple prefer certain aspects of the user
interface in RR 1.1.1 to those in RR 2.0.1.

Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From jameslewes at comcast.net  Thu Jul 10 06:53:00 2003
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (James Lewes)
Date: Thu Jul 10 06:53:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <C8053794-B2B1-11D7-99E5-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <05D1D671-B2CC-11D7-87B0-000502F78A80@comcast.net>

I already use Dreamweaver and I could use photoshop to batch create 
thumbnails.  However, I want to make the images searchable by content, 
and as there are 500+ images it seems sensible to utilize an online 
database and I would like to use Revolution to do so.

James

On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 04:37  AM, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:

>
> On Thursday, Jul 10, 2003, at 03:43 Europe/Vienna, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> HTML would be a good choice, but assuming you want to provide 
>> thumbnails from which people can select to see the larger image, 
>> laying out the page can be a bit of a challenge.
>
> right, so have a look at: ThumbsUp 3.1
> http://www.daevon-technologies.com
>
> regards
> Wolfgang M. Bereuter
>
> Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
> INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
> Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
> ...............................
> http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
> ...............................
> Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Thu Jul 10 08:00:00 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Thu Jul 10 08:00:00 2003
Subject: OsX Throbbing buttons strangeness: Accepts Return but not
	clicking on it.
In-Reply-To: <200307091730.NAA30839@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB332E1E.A75%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi list,

trying to finish my little Player App. I come across a strange behaviour of
the throbbing Buttons under OsX. Sometimes it refuses to respond to clicks.
If you hit the enter key it accepts it. :-(
This is happening in the answer dialogue. If I hit command period quite
often Rev tells me that I?ve abortet a wait.

(wait 2 seconds with messages) but that statement should have been executed
before the answer dialogue appears...

Any ideas?

Malte



From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Jul 10 09:48:00 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu Jul 10 09:48:00 2003
Subject: Copy card produces same ID
Message-ID: <7F7A51EA-B2E4-11D7-8B8A-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

This seems like a bug but...If I use:

copy this card to this stack -- (I think that's what I used)

I get a duplicate card (which is what I want) but the ID of the card is 
the same as the original card. This seems like a bad thing (and a bug). 
Shouldn't ID's be unique? Should I be using something like:

copy this card to this stack with unique ID  --(?)

Alternatively (assuming I should always have unique IDs for my cards 
because to have things otherwise isn't kosher), can I script the 
process of:

1. Select the pointer tool.
2. "Select All" from the Edit menu.
3. "New Card" from the Object menu.
4. "Paste" from the Edit menu.

Appreciate any assistance. Thanks.

Barry



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 10 10:14:02 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 10 10:14:02 2003
Subject: Copy card produces same ID
In-Reply-To: <7F7A51EA-B2E4-11D7-8B8A-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <185FC5CA-B2E8-11D7-A55C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 08:40 AM, Barry Levine wrote:

> This seems like a bug but...If I use:
>
> copy this card to this stack -- (I think that's what I used)
>
> I get a duplicate card (which is what I want) but the ID of the card 
> is the same as the original card.

Are you seeing this evidence in the Application Browser?

Dar Scott



From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Thu Jul 10 10:39:00 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Thu Jul 10 10:39:00 2003
Subject: ODBC on MacOSX?
In-Reply-To: <200307070727.DAA31797@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB33535D.1FB3%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

I got a "revdberr,invalid database type" when calling:

   revOpenDatabase("ODBC",...)

I installed the last Complete MySQL package from Server Logistics and the
ODBC seems to work with the test application under Terminal.

After a long browse in the web, I have not found what's happening. MySQL
works just fine with the revOpenDatabase("mysql",...) but how can I set up
the ODBC so it actually works with Rev?

Thanks for helping!

Joel



From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Thu Jul 10 10:52:01 2003
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (Ron)
Date: Thu Jul 10 10:52:01 2003
Subject: MAC OS X standalone and externals
In-Reply-To: <BB311597.D9C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB33B91B.F559%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi

I am having trouble setting the external of an OS X standalone.

I think this is a path problem so I've spent a long time tonight trying to
read the docs on filepaths and searched the archives for info on OS X
standalones, but I'm still stuck.

The code works fine in OS 9 both in the ide and as a standalone. It works
great in OS X in the ide, but when I build a standalone for X the app
crashes.

I set the externals to "./VXCMD_macho" and put the Valentina bundle in the
same folder as the standalone. (I realize the standalone in OS X is a
folder/bundle, but I do not place it in the contents of the bundle, just on
the same level as the bundle).

Applications f
  My Standalone f
    My App.
    VXCMD_macho
    data f


Valentina inits itself fine, but calling it in a later script crashes.

Am I setting the external properly? This works in the ide...

thanks again,
Ron



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Jul 10 11:30:02 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Jul 10 11:30:02 2003
Subject: How do you reduce Revolution's compiled program sizes?
In-Reply-To: <70.300d97ee.2c3d07d0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01a701c346ff$732b53d0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

I hope this is an email glitch because your questions from your last
four posts were answered already...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 
-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Antn at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 12:53 AM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: How do you reduce Revolution's compiled program sizes?


Hi,

I notice that all programs compiled with Revolutions are on the heavy
side (at least 1.8 megs,) even after you minimize usage of the optional
libraries. 

Is it because Revolution packs the runtime libraries along with every
compiled project like Visual Basic does?

I prefer Revolution to VB or C++ because it appears to be much easier to
learn and use (not to mention it's cross platform feature), however, I
am envious of the compactness of C++.

Why is C++ so small as compared to Revolution?

A program that is cross-platform like Revolution, but extremely compact
is Rebol. (http://www.rebol.com) The avg prog size for rebol is only
about 5k (as opposed to 1800K for Revolution.) How did they manage to
make Rebol so compact?

Other than reducing the associated libraries, avoiding media files
(graphics, audio, video, etc.) what tricks and tips can be used to make
Revolution produce leaner and trimer executables? 




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 10 11:40:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 10 11:40:00 2003
Subject: Color Chooser
In-Reply-To: <web-305437946@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <1CDBB56A-B2F4-11D7-A994-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 04:04  AM, Mathewson wrote:

> Top of the list on the 'files' page of my website.

What is wrong with the new color chooser? The new color chooser on OS X 
appears to be the system (Mac OS X) color chooser. It's consistent with 
all other apps on OS X that use a color chooser. That is a good thing.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 10 11:45:12 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 10 11:45:12 2003
Subject: Copy card produces same ID
In-Reply-To: <7F7A51EA-B2E4-11D7-8B8A-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <CCE88120-B2F4-11D7-A994-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 08:40  AM, Barry Levine wrote:

> Appreciate any assistance. Thanks.

I can't replicated this problem on Rev 2.0.1. "copy this card to this 
stack" makes a card with the id iterated by 1.


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From mvivit at xmission.com  Thu Jul 10 12:21:00 2003
From: mvivit at xmission.com (Mary Vivit)
Date: Thu Jul 10 12:21:00 2003
Subject: People looking for old versions of RR / MC
In-Reply-To: <web-305438094@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <31TP0WUJH07B784HB6394D851B7XTP.3f0d9e33@oemcomputer>

Good day! I'd like to add my voice to this request. I have a couple of older projects that need to 
stay in an older format. Even though I have local backups, it would be nice to know I could 
download again if necessary.

Mary Vivit
mvivit at xmission.com


7/10/2003 4:14:24 AM, "Mathewson" <richmond at mail.maclaunch.com> wrote:

>It might be a good idea if RR could make available older
>versions of RR and Metacard via a webpage as a service to
>those who require them.  This is not quite as daft as it
>seems as some poeple prefer certain aspects of the user
>interface in RR 1.1.1 to those in RR 2.0.1.
>
>Richmond
>__________________________________________________
>





From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Thu Jul 10 12:35:01 2003
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu Jul 10 12:35:01 2003
Subject: Color Chooser
Message-ID: <OFA9C1D5FA.809C279C-ON85256D5F.005F0DB3@sealedair.com>

On 7/10/2003 at 12:32PM, Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com> wrote:

> What is wrong with the new color chooser? The new color chooser on OS X
> appears to be the system (Mac OS X) color chooser. It's consistent with
> all other apps on OS X that use a color chooser. That is a good thing.

Alex,

The option that I miss the most is the eyedropper tool. With that, I could 
quickly identify the RGB mix of any object in any open stack, and use that 
color in a new object. I'm sure the OS X color chooser is nice, but I and 
many others are forced to use other OS flavors by our employers.

Kind Regards,
Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 10 12:35:28 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Jul 10 12:35:28 2003
Subject: People looking for old versions of RR / MC
In-Reply-To: <31TP0WUJH07B784HB6394D851B7XTP.3f0d9e33@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <20030710172818.53887.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Mathewson <richmond at mail.maclaunch.com> wrote:
> It might be a good idea if RR could make available
> older versions of RR and Metacard via a webpage as a
> service to those who require them.  This is not 
> quite as daft as it seems as some poeple prefer 
> certain aspects of the user interface in RR 1.1.1 to

> those in RR 2.0.1.
> 
> Richmond
> 

For Revolution 1.1.1, look at :
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/

For older versions of MetaCard, look at :
http://www.canelasoftware.com/mcmirror.html

It would be much appreciated, though, if the good
people at RunRev HQ would provide as many 'back'
versions as possible in an easily acessible form.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Jul 10 12:36:01 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu Jul 10 12:36:01 2003
Subject: Copy Card Bug
In-Reply-To: <200307101601.MAA06432@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EAF06C00-B2FB-11D7-97F0-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Dar,

When I look at the property inspector and pull down the popup menu of 
the various objects, both cards have the same ID. When I type "the ID 
of this card" in the message box, I get the same answer no matter which 
card is the current one. I have not yet checked the App Browser.

Barry

On Thursday, Jul 10, 2003, at 10:01 America/Denver, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 08:40 AM, Barry Levine wrote:
>
>> This seems like a bug but...If I use:
>>
>> copy this card to this stack -- (I think that's what I used)
>>
>> I get a duplicate card (which is what I want) but the ID of the card
>> is the same as the original card.
>
> Are you seeing this evidence in the Application Browser?
>
> Dar Scott
>



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 10 12:48:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 10 12:48:01 2003
Subject: Color Chooser
In-Reply-To: <OFA9C1D5FA.809C279C-ON85256D5F.005F0DB3@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <9A975248-B2FD-11D7-A994-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 11:21  AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com 
wrote:
> The option that I miss the most is the eyedropper tool. With that, I 
> could
> quickly identify the RGB mix of any object in any open stack, and use 
> that
> color in a new object. I'm sure the OS X color chooser is nice, but I 
> and
> many others are forced to use other OS flavors by our employers.

Roger, I see now. The Windows color picker is really limited compared 
to the OS X one. I can see why you all want the Rev 1.1.1 color picker 
back.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Jul 10 13:09:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu Jul 10 13:09:00 2003
Subject: Stop repeat loop on with a double click
In-Reply-To: <200307101601.MAA06432@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307101601.MAA06432@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb33575f1a11@[66.81.143.243]>

I have a button with a repeat loop in which the clicklocs are being 
recorded and entered into a list.

Is it possible to exit the loop with a double click and continue with 
the button handler?

Thanks,

Jim


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Thu Jul 10 13:12:00 2003
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu Jul 10 13:12:00 2003
Subject: Color Chooser
Message-ID: <OFDC162200.3D00E0B0-ON85256D5F.006252EB@sealedair.com>

Richmond,

Just as an experiment, I copied revcolors.rev from 1.1.1
into C:\Program Files\Revolution 2.0.1\plugins. It seems to
work just fine (No modification at all). It's nice having
that little menu back!

Thanks.
Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com


> Dear RR afficionados,
> A few weeks ago one or two people were complaining
> about the Color Chooser in RR 2.0.1:
> I then suggested something vaguely illegal............
> 
> here is something that should not be illegal: a modified
> revTools stack with an old-style Color Chooser as a
> substack: just put it in your components folder in place of
> the original revTools stack (make a backup of that
> first)........
> 
> Top of the list on the 'files' page of my website.
> 
> Love, Richmond



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Thu Jul 10 13:14:00 2003
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Thu Jul 10 13:14:00 2003
Subject: MAC OS X standalone and externals
In-Reply-To: <200307101601.MAA06432@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB32FBC3.36D2%dan@clearvisiontech.com>

Ron,

I had the same type of problem with one of my OSX externals.  I don't know
if this will help, but here's what I did:

First, I had the external re-compiled as a bundle (from the code that was
used to make the original CODE resource and DLL).  So, it was now named
"Spell.bundle".  I placed "Spell.bundle" into a folder named "plug-ins".
Then, I set the externals of my stack to "plug-ins/Spell.bundle".  This
works fine for initializing my spell checker at start up.

FYI: when I set the externals of my stack to "./plug-ins/Spell.bundle" or
"/plug-ins/Spell.bundle", it failed in my standalone.  Only,
"plug-ins/Spell.bundle" worked.

However, when I went to run it, it couldn't find the dictionaries.  Turns
out it was a problem with paths.

When my app starts up, I use this to fill the global variable
"applicationPath" to the path to my application:

on applicationPathAtStartUp
  global applicationPath
  
  put the fileName of this stack into applicationPath
  set the itemDelimiter to "/"
  delete last item of applicationPath
  
  if the platform = "MacOS" then
    if char 1 to 3 of the systemVersion = "10." then
      delete item -3 to -1 of applicationPath
    end if
  end if
end applicationPathAtStartUp

Until I added the OSX "if", this procedure (on OSX) got the path to the
actual application, not the root level of "myStandalone.app".  Next, I found
out that most externals want a FULL PATH to referenced files.  However, this
procedure (on OSX) did not include the drive name, making it an incomplete
path.  So, instead of sending this:

applicationPath & "/plug-ins/AmericanDict.rcs"

I use this (for OSX):

line 1 of the volumes & applicationPath & "/plug-ins/AmericanDict.rcs"

Once I did this, everything works like like a charm!


Hope that helps.

-Dan


 
> Hi
> 
> I am having trouble setting the external of an OS X standalone.
> 
> I think this is a path problem so I've spent a long time tonight trying to
> read the docs on filepaths and searched the archives for info on OS X
> standalones, but I'm still stuck.
> 
> The code works fine in OS 9 both in the ide and as a standalone. It works
> great in OS X in the ide, but when I build a standalone for X the app
> crashes.
> 
> I set the externals to "./VXCMD_macho" and put the Valentina bundle in the
> same folder as the standalone. (I realize the standalone in OS X is a
> folder/bundle, but I do not place it in the contents of the bundle, just on
> the same level as the bundle).
> 
> Applications f
> My Standalone f
>   My App.
>   VXCMD_macho
>   data f
> 
> 
> Valentina inits itself fine, but calling it in a later script crashes.
> 
> Am I setting the external properly? This works in the ide...
> 
> thanks again,
> Ron



From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Thu Jul 10 13:30:01 2003
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu Jul 10 13:30:01 2003
Subject: Color Chooser
In-Reply-To: <OFDC162200.3D00E0B0-ON85256D5F.006252EB@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <OF329DAEA9.410E1C67-ON85256D5F.00646950-85256D5F.0064B935@sealedair.com>

You Hacker you.



|---------+------------------------------------->
|         |           Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.co|
|         |           m                         |
|         |           Sent by:                  |
|         |           use-revolution-admin at lists|
|         |           .runrev.com               |
|         |                                     |
|         |                                     |
|         |           07/10/03 01:59 PM         |
|         |           Please respond to         |
|         |           use-revolution            |
|---------+------------------------------------->
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                                                                                              |
  |       To:       use-revolution at lists.runrev.com                                                                              |
  |       cc:                                                                                                                    |
  |       Subject:  Re: Color Chooser                                                                                            |
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




Richmond,

Just as an experiment, I copied revcolors.rev from 1.1.1
into C:\Program Files\Revolution 2.0.1\plugins. It seems to
work just fine (No modification at all). It's nice having
that little menu back!

Thanks.
Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com


> Dear RR afficionados,
> A few weeks ago one or two people were complaining
> about the Color Chooser in RR 2.0.1:
> I then suggested something vaguely illegal............
>
> here is something that should not be illegal: a modified
> revTools stack with an old-style Color Chooser as a
> substack: just put it in your components folder in place of
> the original revTools stack (make a backup of that
> first)........
>
> Top of the list on the 'files' page of my website.
>
> Love, Richmond

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 10 13:45:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 10 13:45:01 2003
Subject: Copy Card Bug
In-Reply-To: <EAF06C00-B2FB-11D7-97F0-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <9AEAA5A4-B305-11D7-B207-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 11:28 AM, Barry Levine wrote:

> When I look at the property inspector and pull down the popup menu of 
> the various objects, both cards have the same ID. When I type "the ID 
> of this card" in the message box, I get the same answer no matter 
> which card is the current one. I have not yet checked the App Browser.

Sorry for the distraction.  I had a vague memory of the App Browser 
getting mixed up on the layer and thought you might be seeing that.

For the ID, are you looking at the title bar of the Property Inspector?

Dar Scott



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Thu Jul 10 14:42:01 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Thu Jul 10 14:42:01 2003
Subject: Color Chooser
Message-ID: <web-305445443@mail.maclaunch.com>

Of course Roger Eller's idea of turning the color chooser
from RR 1.1.1 into a RR 2.0.1 plugin is much more elegant
than my modified revTools stack: no least because the RR
1.1.1 colors stack has an eyedropper while the one I
'pinched' from MC does not!

Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From rpresender at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 10 16:19:00 2003
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Thu Jul 10 16:19:00 2003
Subject: Default button
Message-ID: <1CB9370A-B31B-11D7-BA32-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

Using OS 10.2.6, Rev 2.0.1

In development phase, I have a splash window with a default button 
(pulsing, no editable fields on card).  Have a mouseUp handler which 
works fine when clicking on the button, but the default button doesn't 
respond to enter or  return keys.

When a standalone is made of this stack, the default button is 
activated when enter or return keys are pressed.


My handler is:

on mouseUp
   if "X" is in field "RegCode" of stack "Registration" then
    set the lockscreen to true
     go stack "Articles"
     close stack "Creator"
    unlock screen
   else
  set the lockscreen to true
     go stack "Registration"
     close stack "Creator"
     unlock screen	
   end if
end mouseUp

Anyone have an explanation for this behavior?

tia

Regards .... Bob



From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Jul 10 16:37:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Jul 10 16:37:01 2003
Subject: Standalones Don't Remember Where To
Message-ID: <a05100300bb3389c95254@[216.229.107.138]>

Hi All,

In testing a standalone for SDB, I've noticed that on both OS 9 & OS 
X the standalone always opens in the same place on the screen.  My 
experience with other Mac apps is that they open in the screen 
position they occupied when last closed.

??

[No, I don't have any window positioning logic in the stack.]
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Jul 10 16:44:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Jul 10 16:44:01 2003
Subject: Standalones Don't Remember Where To
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bb3389c95254@[216.229.107.138]>
Message-ID: <BB332A74.7DD5%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Rob Cozens"  wrote:

> In testing a standalone for SDB, I've noticed that on both OS 9 & OS
> X the standalone always opens in the same place on the screen.  My
> experience with other Mac apps is that they open in the screen
> position they occupied when last closed.
> 
> ??

You need to store this information in a drive-stored preference file if you
want it preserved.  Most Mac apps do this.  Usually if you trash the
preferences file of the app, the app opens in a default window
configuration.

Alternatively, you can specify a "hard wired" location in your stack, such
as the screenLoc or other numerical position.

[stack script]

on preOpenStack
  set loc of me to the screenLoc
end preOpenStack

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Thu Jul 10 17:06:11 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Thu Jul 10 17:06:11 2003
Subject: checking if there's a CD (windows)
Message-ID: <200307102158.RAA12663@bright.unitz.ca>

i think it was shari who was looking for a way to check if
the CD is present or not on windows..
   get MCISendString("status cdaudio media present")
will return TRUE if there's a CD in the drive, FALSE if no
CD..

you can also eject and insert the CD tray
   get MCISendString("set cdaudio door open")
   get MCISendString("set cdaudio door closed")


-Sean


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jul 10 18:52:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Jul 10 18:52:01 2003
Subject: Standalones Don't Remember Where To
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bb3389c95254@[216.229.107.138]>
Message-ID: <BB334846.30742%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

> In testing a standalone for SDB, I've noticed that on both OS 9 & OS
> X the standalone always opens in the same place on the screen.  My
> experience with other Mac apps is that they open in the screen
> position they occupied when last closed.

Rev lets you position your windows where you want, rather than letting the
OS move 'em around without asking.

If you want them centered you can script that, or they'll use the last saved
position as you noted.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From HyperChris at aol.com  Thu Jul 10 18:56:01 2003
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Thu Jul 10 18:56:01 2003
Subject: Table'itis
Message-ID: <1d2.d9695cf.2c3f5537@aol.com>

Try this ...
1. Create a new blank mainstack.
2. Draw a descent sized Field on it
3. Go into the Inspector and check the Table settings (Table Object and Cell 
Edit)
4. Put some numbers in the first four cells of column one (how about 1, 2 ,3 
and 4)
5. Open the message box and execute ... put empty into fld 1
6. The field should go blank
7. Click on the cells into which you previously input data.
8. Like magic your numbers reappear in the cell while it is being edited.

Second round ...
1. Open the message and execute .... put "TEST" into line 3 of fld 1
2. "Test" appears in row 3 column 1
3. Click on it and you will see the number you entered and then wiped out 
earlier and not "TEST"

Third round ...
1. Open the message box and execute ... put empty into fld 1
2. Click on row 2 column 1
3. One of the earlier numbers should appear. Type over it with another number.
4. All the earlier numbers appear.

Fourth round ...
1. Use the "Popup Menu" button  and draw a quick button off to the side.
2. Go into the Inspector and give it some Menu Items (how about A, B, C, and 
D each on a sep. line) 
3. Select line 2 of column 1 but don't change anything.
4. Click on your pop up button and watch it party again.

I'm very open to suggestions! Feel free to point out something simple like ...
  set tableNotBuggy to true
... I'm not too proud for anything at this point.


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Jul 10 20:57:00 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Jul 10 20:57:00 2003
Subject: Standalones Don't Remember Where To
In-Reply-To: <BB334846.30742%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BB334846.30742%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bb33c701aea3@[216.229.107.64]>

>  > In testing a standalone for SDB, I've noticed that on both OS 9 & OS
>  > X the standalone always opens in the same place on the screen.
>
>Rev lets you position your windows where you want, rather than letting the
>OS move 'em around without asking.

I guess my question is "what determines the initial position of the 
standalone's window the first time it is opened?".  I certainly 
didn't tell the Distribution Builder to set it to open in the bottom 
left quadrant of the screen.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Jul 10 21:27:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu Jul 10 21:27:01 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <200307101202.IAA31801@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB336DE7.1C08%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Igor,

> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:02:48 +1000
> Subject: Re: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
> From: Igor Couto <igor at pixelmedia.com.au>

snip
> 2) Using the windowShape property, set the stack to be totally
> transparent (you can do this by using an image which is totally
> transparent as the 'shape' for the windowShape property).
snip

How? I couildn't get any of my paint programs, or even Photoshop, to make a
transparent PNG image of nothing.

Ken N.



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 10 21:33:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 10 21:33:01 2003
Subject: Standalones Don't Remember Where To
References: <BB334846.30742%ambassador@fourthworld.com> <a05100301bb33c701aea3@[216.229.107.64]>
Message-ID: <000e01c34753$a559a880$6701a8c0@ed>

I believe that it's preety much the last location the window was at when
saved during development
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Cozens"
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: Standalones Don't Remember Where To


> >  > In testing a standalone for SDB, I've noticed that on both OS 9 & OS
> >  > X the standalone always opens in the same place on the screen.
> >
> >Rev lets you position your windows where you want, rather than letting
the
> >OS move 'em around without asking.
>
> I guess my question is "what determines the initial position of the
> standalone's window the first time it is opened?".  I certainly
> didn't tell the Distribution Builder to set it to open in the bottom
> left quadrant of the screen.
> -- 
>
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Jul 10 21:51:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu Jul 10 21:51:00 2003
Subject: [ANN] Explosive Demo Stack
In-Reply-To: <200307100444.AAA21707@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB337394.1C0B%pixelbird@interisland.net>

> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:42:39 -0700
> Subject: [ANN] Explosive Demo Stack
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>

> For better or for worse, it is human nature to destroy things...  Thus we
> have a new demo stack available via our stack viewer which provides a couple
> of examples of explosion animation: explode a line of image text or shatter
> a box into little images.  Based on our previously announced Ease stack,
> this stack is called TNT (scroll to the bottom of the list).

> go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"
----------
Ingenius as usual. I welcome those little things because they're often along
the lines of things I need, too. I wish I had more time to experiment with
animation and grahical object techniques. Good job.

Ken N.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Jul 10 21:54:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Jul 10 21:54:01 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <BB336DE7.1C08%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BB33733E.D7B8%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Ken Norris wrote:

>> 2) Using the windowShape property, set the stack to be totally
>> transparent (you can do this by using an image which is totally
>> transparent as the 'shape' for the windowShape property).
> snip
> 
> How? I couildn't get any of my paint programs, or even Photoshop, to make a
> transparent PNG image of nothing.

In Photoshop, create a new file of the dimensions you want with a single
empty layer.  If the file has a background layer, delete it.  You should now
see the checkerboard pattern in the document window.  Choose "Save for
Web..." from the File menu as GIF with transparency enabled.

Keep in mind it's not necessary to create a totally transparent image for a
windowShape source image described above: the opaque portion of the image
can be hidden outside the rect of the window region (ie, your stack is
100x100, but your source image is 120x100).

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jul 10 22:10:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:10:00 2003
Subject: Standalones Don't Remember Where To
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bb33c701aea3@[216.229.107.64]>
References: <BB334846.30742%ambassador@fourthworld.com> <a05100301bb33c701aea3@[216.229.107.64]>
Message-ID: <3F0E28D7.1000306@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/10/03 8:48 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> I guess my question is "what determines the initial position of the 
> standalone's window the first time it is opened?".  I certainly didn't 
> tell the Distribution Builder to set it to open in the bottom left 
> quadrant of the screen.

My stacks always open in the same position on screen where I last saved 
them. I suspect its a coordinate saved as part of the stack structure 
itself. Was your stack at the bottom of the screen when you built the 
standalone?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jul 10 22:24:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:24:00 2003
Subject: Standalones Don't Remember Where To
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bb33c701aea3@[216.229.107.64]>
Message-ID: <BB3379F5.30761%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

>>> In testing a standalone for SDB, I've noticed that on both OS 9 & OS
>>> X the standalone always opens in the same place on the screen.
>> 
>> Rev lets you position your windows where you want, rather than letting the
>> OS move 'em around without asking.
> 
> I guess my question is "what determines the initial position of the
> standalone's window the first time it is opened?".  I certainly
> didn't tell the Distribution Builder to set it to open in the bottom
> left quadrant of the screen.

Was that its position when it was last saved?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 00:43:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri Jul 11 00:43:00 2003
Subject: Table'itis
In-Reply-To: <1d2.d9695cf.2c3f5537@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030711053527.65715.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

--- HyperChris at aol.com wrote:
> Try this ...
> 1. Create a new blank mainstack.
> 2. Draw a descent sized Field on it
> 3. Go into the Inspector and check the Table
> settings (Table Object and Cell 
> Edit)
> 4. Put some numbers in the first four cells of
> column one (how about 1, 2 ,3 
> and 4)
> 5. Open the message box and execute ... put empty
> into fld 1
> 6. The field should go blank
> 7. Click on the cells into which you previously
> input data.
> 8. Like magic your numbers reappear in the cell
> while it is being edited.
> 
> Second round ...
> 1. Open the message and execute .... put "TEST" into
> line 3 of fld 1
> 2. "Test" appears in row 3 column 1
> 3. Click on it and you will see the number you
> entered and then wiped out 
> earlier and not "TEST"
> 
> Third round ...
> 1. Open the message box and execute ... put empty
> into fld 1
> 2. Click on row 2 column 1
> 3. One of the earlier numbers should appear. Type
> over it with another number.
> 4. All the earlier numbers appear.
> 
> Fourth round ...
> 1. Use the "Popup Menu" button  and draw a quick
> button off to the side.
> 2. Go into the Inspector and give it some Menu Items
> (how about A, B, C, and 
> D each on a sep. line) 
> 3. Select line 2 of column 1 but don't change
> anything.
> 4. Click on your pop up button and watch it party
> again.
> 
> I'm very open to suggestions! Feel free to point out
> something simple like ...
>   set tableNotBuggy to true
> ... I'm not too proud for anything at this point.
> 

Hi Chris,

When you're dealing with table fields, the actual data
is stored not only in the field text, but also in two
separate custom poperties of the field :
  the cREVTable["currentview"]
  the cREVTable["formattedview"]

And of course the revTable frontScript works with
these internal data structures rather than the actual
text of the field, and will happily overwrite the text
with its own data when it gets a chance?

Now how do we use this knowledge ?
  -- build the (unformatted) data for the table
  --  column per column, row by row
  --  note that it wants an extra return at the end
  put "1" & tab & "foo" & return & \
      "2" & tab & "bar" & return into tTableData
  -- update the 'basic' table data :
  set the cREVTable["currentview"] of field "snafu" \
      to tTableData
  -- and tell it to format our data and redraw
  revDisplayFormattedData field "foobar"

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 00:58:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri Jul 11 00:58:00 2003
Subject: Table'itis
In-Reply-To: <20030711053527.65715.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030711055020.30631.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> [snip] 
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> When you're dealing with table fields, the actual
> data
> is stored not only in the field text, but also in
> two
> separate custom poperties of the field :
>   the cREVTable["currentview"]
>   the cREVTable["formattedview"]
> 
> And of course the revTable frontScript works with
> these internal data structures rather than the
> actual
> text of the field, and will happily overwrite the
> text
> with its own data when it gets a chance?
> 
> Now how do we use this knowledge ?
>   -- build the (unformatted) data for the table
>   --  column per column, row by row
>   --  note that it wants an extra return at the end
>   put "1" & tab & "foo" & return & \
>       "2" & tab & "bar" & return into tTableData
>   -- update the 'basic' table data :
>   set the cREVTable["currentview"] of field "snafu"
> \
>       to tTableData
>   -- and tell it to format our data and redraw
>   revDisplayFormattedData field "foobar"
> 

Last but not least, the quickest way to empty a table
field is :
  revEmptyTable field "foobar"

This and other tricks can be found by studying the
'revTable' frontScript. To review it :
- open the message box
- click on the 'Front Scripts' button
- check the box 'Show Revolution UI Front Scripts'
- select 'revTable' in the list
- click the 'Edit Script' button.

WARNING :
Be careful not to make changes there, and if
Revolution ever asks you to save changes in its
'revLibrary' stack, DO NOT SAVE THOSE CHANGES (unless
you know what you're doing, of course)

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 11 01:59:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 11 01:59:00 2003
Subject: Revolution's CGI Module - where is it????
In-Reply-To: <183.1dbad026.2c3d0436@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2FE3E1BE-B36C-11D7-B752-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 11:37  PM, Antn at aol.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I saw on the posts recently a mention of the availabilty of a CGI 
> module for Revolution.


See "Using Revolution To Do Server-Side Scripting - Some Basics"
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/articles/tipoftheweek/6.html

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines/  appears to be the current 
URL instead of
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From paeleman at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 02:30:00 2003
From: paeleman at hotmail.com (Joeri Paeleman)
Date: Fri Jul 11 02:30:00 2003
Subject: checking if there's a CD (windows) (Shao Sean)
Message-ID: <Law11-F67iUBtpUtUfC000019c4@hotmail.com>

Sean,


This is great!

But on my system (a compaq notebook) the "status cdaudio media present" 
returns false, even though there is a cd-player, and even more: the "set 
cdaudio door open" works.

Where can I find more of those strings?

Joeri

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Search, for relevant search results! http://search.msn.be



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 02:59:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri Jul 11 02:59:00 2003
Subject: Revolution's CGI Module - where is it????
In-Reply-To: <2FE3E1BE-B36C-11D7-B752-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <20030711075215.47136.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines/  appears
> to be the current 
> URL instead of
> http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11
> 
> 
> Alex Rice

Hi Alex,

I pulled the Revolution 1.1.1 engines URL
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/
out of the script of the Distribution Builder.

As there's an entry for LinuxPPC, which isn't
supported by Revolution 2.0, my guess is that the URL
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines/
actually points to Revolution 1.0

A bit more digging through the DIstribution Builder
for Revolution 2.0 revealed the following URL :
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/engines/2.0/

Whether this is also home to any CGI-versions or not
is another question. At one point an upgrade was
suggested to add database access and all the other
goodies into the CGI-engine.
Which is probably why the latest news on the topic
IIRC, is that it's still in beta but available on
request.

Hope this hasn't added to the confusion,

Jan Schenkel.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From igor at pixelmedia.com.au  Fri Jul 11 03:28:01 2003
From: igor at pixelmedia.com.au (Igor Couto)
Date: Fri Jul 11 03:28:01 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <BB336DE7.1C08%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <A1FF88D4-B378-11D7-81EB-000393AD9396@pixelmedia.com.au>

Dear Ken,

First of all, my previous 'solution' was actually very silly, and it 
will not work. If you make the entire stack invisible, any objects in 
its cards (including the line that was supposed to be the 'guide') will 
disappear.

I think that for an easy solution to that one we'll have to wait for a 
version of the 'windowShape' property that accepts graphics as 
parameters, as well as images... (someone was mentioning that a few 
months earlier).

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 09:24  AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> How? I couildn't get any of my paint programs, or even Photoshop, to 
> make a
> transparent PNG image of nothing.
>

Using Photoshop 7:

1) File -> New...

2) Make sure that at the bottom of the 'New' dialogue box, the 
'Contents' option is set to 'transparent', and not 'white' or 
'background color'.

3) Specify resolution of 72pixels/inch, RGB color mode, and make it any 
size you want it to be. Click 'OK'

A new, empty (ie, TRANSPARENT) photoshop image appears. With that image 
frontmost:

4) File -> Save For Web...

5) In the 'Save For Web' window, select the 'PNG-24' preset, and make 
sure that the 'transparency' option is set. Click 'Save'.

Done.

Regards,

--
Igor de Oliveira Couto
----------------------------------
igor at pixelmedia.com.au
----------------------------------



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Fri Jul 11 03:44:01 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Fri Jul 11 03:44:01 2003
Subject: Richmond's Summer Gift
Message-ID: <web-305458500@mail.maclaunch.com>

Dear Runtime Revolution Afficionados,
   I am off for 5 weeks of computer-free holidays this
evening (my house in Bulgaria).

I have just uploaded my Summer Gift to my website:
 REVTOOLS +

This is a significantly enhanced revtools stack: Backup the
revtools stack in /components/tools and then replace it
with revtools + (if you don't like it you can replace it
with your backup).

I wish you all a happy and Richmond-free summer.

Love, Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Fri Jul 11 04:48:01 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Fri Jul 11 04:48:01 2003
Subject: Color Chooser
Message-ID: <web-305459203@mail.maclaunch.com>

HOWEVER.......while Roger Eller's idea is maybe more
elegant than mine it DOESN'T WORK!

Try my Summer Gift: on my website!

Love, Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From kevin at runrev.com  Fri Jul 11 04:54:00 2003
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri Jul 11 04:54:00 2003
Subject: RUNREV ACQUIRES METACARD!!!
In-Reply-To: <50.1f6df7ec.2c3d8a6d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BB3445DD.1CA88%kevin@runrev.com>

On 9/7/03 4:10 pm, RGould8 at aol.com <RGould8 at aol.com> wrote:

> Time to buy stock! - - - - is RunRev a publicly-traded company?

Not at the moment, it is a privately held company.  However, we do have a
share purchase program, if anyone is interested, please contact me directly
off list.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited: Software at the Speed of Thought
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Jul 11 08:29:00 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri Jul 11 08:29:00 2003
Subject: Standalones Don't Remember Where To
In-Reply-To: <000e01c34753$a559a880$6701a8c0@ed>
References: <BB334846.30742%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
 <a05100301bb33c701aea3@[216.229.107.64]>
 <000e01c34753$a559a880$6701a8c0@ed>
Message-ID: <a05100300bb346a1968cd@[216.229.107.64]>

>I believe that it's preety much the last location the window was at when
>saved during development

Yes, Edwin, that seems to be the case.

I'll have to be more cognitive of stack location when saving before building.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Jul 11 08:34:01 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri Jul 11 08:34:01 2003
Subject: A speed difference between MC and Rev ?
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEFNCLAA.chipp@chipp.com> <f05200f02bb3320267084@[171.75.128.195]> <3F0D8C29.42181879@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <3F0EBB05.46F1AB19@easynet.fr>

Hello Any All there

My name is Pierre Sahores and i'm testing Rev 2.0.1 to see if i can
switch some of my MC 2.5 projects to Rev.

1.- After downloading the 30 days free trial issue of Revolution 2.0.1
(linux
x86),

2.- I open the main stack of the mc 2.5 project i'm just working on,

3.- I open, one after each other, the 12 substacks of this project : it
takes seconds to get each window displayed on screen where it takes some
ticks to get the same result in running the same project under MC 2.5 ?

Any idea about this "speed bug" ? Is that normal ? Do i have some thing
to do to get the same speed results in using Revolution than in using MC
?

Any help will be greatly apprecied. Thanks !
--
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Serveurs d'applications et SGBDR (Web/PGI)
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Fri Jul 11 08:37:01 2003
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri Jul 11 08:37:01 2003
Subject: Color Chooser
Message-ID: <OFF458093E.11A41708-ON85256D60.00488AF6@sealedair.com>

> HOWEVER.......while Roger Eller's idea is maybe more
> elegant than mine it DOESN'T WORK!
> 
> Try my Summer Gift: on my website!
> 
> Love, Richmond

Oh yeah...  Maybe you should experiment further before declaring to the 
world that it DOESN'T WORK. The revColors "plugin" should be opened AFTER 
selecting an object. If you need to modify the stack or card colors, then 
open the Stack Inspector or Card Inspector FIRST, and then open the 
revColors "plugin". It works very well here.

Have a great vacation! Since you will be computer-less, the printed Rev 
manuals would be great to pass the time.

Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Fri Jul 11 09:53:00 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Fri Jul 11 09:53:00 2003
Subject: Color Chooser
Message-ID: <web-305463143@mail.maclaunch.com>

..............it DOESN'T WORK according to the criterion
that it should be available as a floating palette that
doesn't have to be recalled everytime a new stack is
accessed........

My SUMMER GIFT now  (3pm  UK time) contains a COLOR
CHOOSER, MAIN-STACKER, MOVIE-SNAPPER, BACKDROPPER all in
conveniently small palettes as well as buttons to rapidly
access the  APPLICATION BROWSER and the MESSAGE
BOX.......Go and get it....

...if you can replace the COLOR CHOOSER I have there with
one with an eye-dropper that would be absolutely
marvellous........go on, there's a challenge!

I am leaving my printed RR manuals in Scotland: In Bulgaria
I shall be reading Bulgarian books, visiting monasteries,
getting drunk and all those other sensible things that I
have not done since I fell in love with Runtime Revolution.

Love, Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Fri Jul 11 09:53:43 2003
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Fri Jul 11 09:53:43 2003
Subject: Color Chooser
Message-ID: <web-305463508@mail.maclaunch.com>

Roger Eller's method doesn't work in terms of my wanting a
free-floating palette that does not have to be called every
time another stack is opened.  His does have the advantage
of the Eye-Dropper.

I have just revised my SUMMER GIFT (3pm UK) and it now
incorporates MAIN-STACKER, MOVIE-SNAPPER, COLOR CHOOSER,
BACKDROPPER as relatively compact, free-floating palettes,
as well as buttons for the MESSAGE BOX and APPLICATION
OVERVIEW.

If Roger Eller can move the RR 1.1.1 color chooser into the
revTools stack (I tried it and went badly wrong!) so it
works then I will be extremely impressed.

For those who are wondering: I am not completely kinky - I
will be leaving my RR printed manuals in Scotland - in
Bulgaria I shall read books, visit monasteries and get
drunk, as well as the most important thing for me: spend
lots of time with my wife and children.

Love, Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------


From ms1 at soas.ac.uk  Fri Jul 11 10:30:01 2003
From: ms1 at soas.ac.uk (muaadh salih)
Date: Fri Jul 11 10:30:01 2003
Subject: Unicode compliant ?
Message-ID: <p04320401bb33d9c0920a@[193.63.73.136]>

IS Revolution version 2 a fully Unicode Compliant?
Our problem is that we are intending to migrate to R  as our main 
programming language  for our
CALL (Computer assisted language learning) for teaching Arabic, 
Hebrew and  Persian.
It seems that we can programm for any text manipulations at all .

   Example "
a card with field 1 ,field 2 ans button 1
to set textfont of field 1 to a specific Hebrew font does through 
programming not have any effect so we have to set it manually.
So field1 was manually set to Arabic, or Hebrew fonts and r-l 
direction as was field 2.

we entered manually a Semitic text in field 1.

  The button script is
On mouseUP
Get field 1
put it into field 2
end mouse up

the result is not only that field 2 is filled with garbage but filed 
1 original text is turned in garbage as well

any solution?

Is there any thing like set text font of message box to "abc" ? in revolution?


We are a member of 14 European Universities thinking of leaving 
HyperCard  but Revolution is still proving difficult.


-- 

All the best

---------------
M.  Salih
N.M.E. Dept.
SOAS
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
London WCIH OXG

Tel. (UK) 020  7898 4354 Direct
               020  7898 4320 Dept.
eMail: ms1 at soas.ac.uk



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Fri Jul 11 10:45:01 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Fri Jul 11 10:45:01 2003
Subject: checking if there's a CD (windows) (Shao Sean)
Message-ID: <200307111537.LAA26661@bright.unitz.ca>

> "status cdaudio media present"  returns false, even though
there is a
> cd-player
if there is _no_ cd in the cd-rom, it'll return false.. if
there's a cd in the cd-rom it'll return true.. (if the door
is open, it'll return false too ;-)


> Where can I find more of those strings?
microsoft has the whole listing on their MSDN website, but
i'll be compiling a list that can be used in RR/MC..

-Sean


From themacguy at macosx.com  Fri Jul 11 10:57:00 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Fri Jul 11 10:57:00 2003
Subject: Copy Card Bug
Message-ID: <3EB0E348-B3B7-11D7-99F1-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Dar,

After your response about checking the App Browser, I decided to try 
"copy this card to this stack" again and look at the App Browser. Now 
it shows two distinct card IDs.

I think the confusion came about as a result of -another- bug in Rev2 
that fails to update the Property Inspector window. For example: I had 
the card's properties displayed and, when I created a new button, its 
properties showed that it (the button) was a -card- with the same ID. I 
changed its name, clicked another object on the card, and clicked back 
on the button. Now the properties were for the button and it had the 
name I had assigned to the card (which, apparently, was really the 
button but in an improperly updated PI window that had not been 
updated).

I hope the above makes sense.

In any case, the original "bug" isn't there but the display issue with 
the PI window is.

Barry



From joe_saltzman at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 12:09:00 2003
From: joe_saltzman at yahoo.com (Saltzman Joe)
Date: Fri Jul 11 12:09:00 2003
Subject: Does RR support quicktime media access keys?
Message-ID: <20030711170154.62726.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

Can anyone tell me if RR supports Quicktimes media
access key feature?

If so, can someone explain how it works?

Cheers,

Joe Saltzman


From franklin.bacheller at usu.edu  Fri Jul 11 12:35:01 2003
From: franklin.bacheller at usu.edu (Franklin Bacheller)
Date: Fri Jul 11 12:35:01 2003
Subject: Fonts and standalones
Message-ID: <F9A6118D-B3C4-11D7-AD58-000A957A09CC@usu.edu>

Hi,

I know this is a very elementary question with a very simple solution. 
But...

When I make a standalone the font size changes (gets much bigger) in 
fields and buttons (not for for all objects but many).  How can I keep 
this from happening?  Am I supposed to be locking font size by clicking 
something somewhere?  Using MAC OS X.

Thanks.

Frank Bacheller


Franklin I. Bacheller, Ph.D.
Associate Professor

Intensive English Language Institute
Utah State University
0715 Old Main Hill
Logan, UT 84322-0715

Phone: 435-797-1281
Fax:      435-797-4050



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 11 13:12:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 11 13:12:00 2003
Subject: Fonts and standalones
In-Reply-To: <F9A6118D-B3C4-11D7-AD58-000A957A09CC@usu.edu>
Message-ID: <165AEE07-B3CA-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 11:27  AM, Franklin Bacheller wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I know this is a very elementary question with a very simple solution. 
> But...
>
> When I make a standalone the font size changes (gets much bigger) in 
> fields and buttons (not for for all objects but many).  How can I keep 
> this from happening?  Am I supposed to be locking font size by 
> clicking something somewhere?  Using MAC OS X.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Frank Bacheller

In Distribution Builder, what are you selecting on the Profiles tab? 
Have you created any Profiles for any objects?

A guess: what you should do is select "Include profiles and allow 
switching" and "Only include profiles..." and select "Master".

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 11 13:59:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 11 13:59:01 2003
Subject: text encoding q, problems with networked folder and IDE
In-Reply-To: <v0313031cba42fd4265e0@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <C0339F4B-B3D0-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 03:21  AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
> That's right. From the docs:
> ------
> When you save a stack, its text is encoded using either the ISO 
> character
> set (on Unix or Windows systems) or the Macintosh character set (on 
> Mac OS
> or OS X systems). If you open the stack on a system that uses the other
> character set, Revolution converts all the text in the stack to use the
> current character set, and the process takes noticeable time if the 
> stack
> contains a great deal of text in fields or scripts.
> -----
> So the text is converted automatically when you open the stack on the 
> other
> set of platforms (Mac OS/OS X versus Unix/Windows), and you just have 
> to
> save it to get the benefit.

Are all substacks converted as well? It would be silly to have to open 
each substack, but I just wanted to make sure. Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From RGould8 at aol.com  Fri Jul 11 14:43:00 2003
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Fri Jul 11 14:43:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
Message-ID: <4f.31997471.2c406b75@aol.com>

I've used Revolution to create apps on the Mac, but I've not tried any 
server-related features of Revolution - - - can anyone tell me if Revolution could 
be used to create an app that runs on a Mac OS X server that pulls in data off 
of fields on a web-page served by the Mac OS X server performs actions based 
on that data?   

For instance, if I wanted to create a server app that prompts the user to 
enter information into fields and then saves that data into text files on the 
server hard-drive, would that be a job for Revolution, or for PHP or Filemaker 
Pro, or something else entirely?
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From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 11 14:51:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 11 14:51:01 2003
Subject: answer file tMsg with tPath
Message-ID: <03360B59-B3D8-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

I'm getting erratic results with answer file, trying to open the dialog 
to a specific folder/directory. Is anything wrong with this transcript?

answer file "select a file" with specialFolderPath("Documents")

On Mac OS X sometimes it opens the dialog on the correct folder, 
sometimes not. On Windows 2000 it opens the dialog in the directory 
"/Documents and Settings/username/" and puts "My Documents" into the 
_File Name_ field in the dialog. Not right.

specialFolderPath() is always returning correct results, but answer 
file seems to be erratic whether it obeys the path or not.

Rev 2.0.1

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 11 15:03:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 11 15:03:00 2003
Subject: Bugzilla search
In-Reply-To: <21B55A23-B053-11D7-B99F-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <A774860A-B3D9-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 02:15  AM, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:

> It works for me with Camino too. But I could not make a query or 
> report, because its to complicated for me...
> Seems that I need a special training before I can use that =;(
> What should I do now..?
> Thanks for tips...

I think it's great the runrev team is running an open bug database that 
we can all cooperate with. But in my opinion bugzilla has a confusing 
and poorly designed user interface. No offense intended & I know 
bugzilla was not written by the runrev team.

Also, it's a bummer bugzilla doesn't work with Safari. I never use 
Mozilla, but installed it just to use bugzilla.

Does the database backend of bugzilla accept outside connections? Maybe 
someone could write a simplified searching/browsing interface with rev.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 11 15:07:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 11 15:07:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <4f.31997471.2c406b75@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3CD3E066-B3DA-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 01:35  PM, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> I've used Revolution to create apps on the Mac, but I've not tried any 
> server-related features of Revolution - - - can anyone tell me if 
> Revolution could be used to create an app that runs on a Mac OS X 
> server that pulls in data off of fields on a web-page served by the 
> Mac OS X server performs actions based on that data??
>
> For instance, if I wanted to create a server app that prompts the user 
> to enter information into fields and then saves that data into text 
> files on the server hard-drive, would that be a job for Revolution, or 
> for PHP or Filemaker Pro, or something else entirely?

I would do it with Dreamweaver + Phakt/PHP + PostgreSQL or MySQL.  
That's just my preference though.

If you know revolution then it might be best for you to use it for the 
task. Pick up any book on CGI and HTTP web programming to get the 
basics of GET, POST, and form submissions.

You will have to work around the issue of locking the data stack or 
text file as simultaneous CGI processes try to access the same file. 
Imagine multiple instances of your script running at once, all trying 
to access the same resource.  Using a client-server database (like 
mysql) instead of a data stack or text file solves this for you.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 11 15:22:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 11 15:22:00 2003
Subject: Bugzilla search
In-Reply-To: <A774860A-B3D9-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB3468AF.3082D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> I think it's great the runrev team is running an open bug database that
> we can all cooperate with. But in my opinion bugzilla has a confusing
> and poorly designed user interface. No offense intended & I know
> bugzilla was not written by the runrev team.
> 
> Also, it's a bummer bugzilla doesn't work with Safari. I never use
> Mozilla, but installed it just to use bugzilla.

This suggests an interesting question:

Anyone feel like contributing to the development of an open source
bug-reporting tool built with Rev?

The client could be a simple stack window, the server a .mt script that
could use a stackfile for simple structured automatically-parsed data.

Anyone game?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 11 15:38:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 11 15:38:00 2003
Subject: Bugzilla search
In-Reply-To: <A774860A-B3D9-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <7D93907C-B3DE-11D7-9C20-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 01:55 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> I think it's great the runrev team is running an open bug database 
> that we can all cooperate with. But in my opinion bugzilla has a 
> confusing and poorly designed user interface. No offense intended & I 
> know bugzilla was not written by the runrev team.

Once I got past that, I am very comfortable with bugzilla.  I have a 
few things I do and they seem to work well.  My judgment may be poor, 
since I have already paid the price of the learning curve.

>
> Also, it's a bummer bugzilla doesn't work with Safari. I never use 
> Mozilla, but installed it just to use bugzilla.

Yeah.  I use Netscape on OS X for bugzilla only.  It would be nice if 
Safari and/or bugzilla improved to accommodate Safari.




From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Fri Jul 11 15:41:01 2003
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Fri Jul 11 15:41:01 2003
Subject: Bugzilla search
In-Reply-To: <A774860A-B3D9-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <E5E9F26C-B3DE-11D7-9BA7-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 12:55 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 02:15  AM, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:
>
>> It works for me with Camino too. But I could not make a query or 
>> report, because its to complicated for me...
>> Seems that I need a special training before I can use that =;(
>> What should I do now..?
>> Thanks for tips...
>
> I think it's great the runrev team is running an open bug database 
> that we can all cooperate with. But in my opinion bugzilla has a 
> confusing and poorly designed user interface. No offense intended & I 
> know bugzilla was not written by the runrev team.
>
> Also, it's a bummer bugzilla doesn't work with Safari. I never use 
> Mozilla, but installed it just to use bugzilla.
>
> Does the database backend of bugzilla accept outside connections? 
> Maybe someone could write a simplified searching/browsing interface 
> with rev.
>
>


I have been using Safari with Bugzilla with no problems.  Are you using 
the latest version of Safari?

Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 11 15:52:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 11 15:52:02 2003
Subject: Bugzilla search
In-Reply-To: <E5E9F26C-B3DE-11D7-9BA7-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <8BC7CAD2-B3E0-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 02:33  PM, Mark Talluto wrote:
>
> I have been using Safari with Bugzilla with no problems.  Are you 
> using the latest version of Safari?
>

I think so- 1.0 (v85). It won't let me search from on the opening 
screen (something about Javascript), and on the detailed search screen, 
it downloads html files to disk instead of displaying them.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 11 16:44:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 11 16:44:00 2003
Subject: answer file tMsg with tPath
In-Reply-To: <03360B59-B3D8-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BE3E4506-B3E7-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 01:43  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> I'm getting erratic results with answer file, trying to open the 
> dialog to a specific folder/directory. Is anything wrong with this 
> transcript?

more info...

The TD for "answer file command" says:

"The defaultPath is the name and location of the folder whose contents 
are listed when the dialog box appears. If no defaultPath is specified, 
the dialog box lists the contents of the last folder you used with a 
file dialog box."

but it seems that defaultPath actually expects the path to end in a 
filename not a folder because this works:

put specialFolderPath("Documents")  & "/myfile" into tPath
answer file "select a file" with tFile

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Fri Jul 11 17:00:03 2003
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Fri Jul 11 17:00:03 2003
Subject: Bugzilla search
In-Reply-To: <8BC7CAD2-B3E0-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <01491679-B3EA-11D7-9BA7-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 01:45 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 02:33  PM, Mark Talluto wrote:
>>
>> I have been using Safari with Bugzilla with no problems.  Are you 
>> using the latest version of Safari?
>>
>
> I think so- 1.0 (v85). It won't let me search from on the opening 
> screen (something about Javascript), and on the detailed search 
> screen, it downloads html files to disk instead of displaying them.
>
>

Ahhh...Just goes to show that I have not used every feature on 
Bugzilla.  It is true that the search feature is broken when using 
Safari.  Too bad.  I have bug reported it to Apple for what it is worth.


Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From bvlahos at mac.com  Fri Jul 11 17:01:05 2003
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Fri Jul 11 17:01:05 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <4f.31997471.2c406b75@aol.com>
Message-ID: <36771416-B3EA-11D7-BE7F-000393C44AE0@mac.com>

I think Rev could make a pretty good server. The only example I'm aware 
of is Tuviah' chat software at the RunRev user contributed page.

I'd like to see a simple generalized example of a Rev web server app 
designed for forms. I've done this sort of thing with AppleScript and 
WebSTAR but Rev should be able to do the whole thing.

The biggest issue would be how to effectively handle multiple 
simultaneous request/conversations while keeping track of each of them.

Bill Vlahos

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 12:35  PM, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> I've used Revolution to create apps on the Mac, but I've not tried any 
> server-related features of Revolution - - - can anyone tell me if 
> Revolution could be used to create an app that runs on a Mac OS X 
> server that pulls in data off of fields on a web-page served by the 
> Mac OS X server performs actions based on that data??
>
> For instance, if I wanted to create a server app that prompts the user 
> to enter information into fields and then saves that data into text 
> files on the server hard-drive, would that be a job for Revolution, or 
> for PHP or Filemaker Pro, or something else entirely?
>
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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Jul 11 17:35:01 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri Jul 11 17:35:01 2003
Subject: answer file tMsg with tPath
In-Reply-To: <BE3E4506-B3E7-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <002401c347fb$98f8c730$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

> but it seems that defaultPath actually expects the path to end in a 
> filename not a folder because this works:
> 
> put specialFolderPath("Documents")  & "/myfile" into tPath 
> answer file "select a file" with tFile

Actually it probably needs to end in a "/", since specialFolderPath()
returns folder paths without trailing slashes.

Try this:

  answer file "Select a file:" with (specialFolderPath("Documents")&"/")

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 




From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Jul 11 17:46:00 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri Jul 11 17:46:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <4f.31997471.2c406b75@aol.com>
References: <4f.31997471.2c406b75@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bb34ea5ba284@[216.229.107.20]>

>if I wanted to create a server app that prompts the user to enter 
>information into fields and then saves that data into text files on 
>the server hard-drive, would that be a job for Revolution, or for 
>PHP or Filemaker Pro, or something else entirely?

Yes..........     :{`)

But how about a Rev client app that prompts the user to enter 
information into fields, collects the fields into a record, and sends 
the record to a Rev server app to be filed in a multi-user Rev 
database stack?

The client app would be your responsibility; the server app and the 
libraries that drive it are being tested by Jan Schenkel's Rev IPC 
Group as we speak.  (SDB Server gave its first meaningful response to 
my test client stack less than an hour ago.)

And, BTW, when they are finished, the server, libraries, and 
supporting utilities will all be released with open-source copyrights 
for royalty-free distribution.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From igor at pixelmedia.com.au  Fri Jul 11 17:51:00 2003
From: igor at pixelmedia.com.au (Igor Couto)
Date: Fri Jul 11 17:51:00 2003
Subject: Unicode compliant ?
In-Reply-To: <p04320401bb33d9c0920a@[193.63.73.136]>
Message-ID: <35758882-B3F1-11D7-AEC0-000393AD9396@pixelmedia.com.au>

Dear Muaadh,

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 01:23  PM, muaadh salih wrote:

> we entered manually a Semitic text in field 1.
>
>  The button script is
> On mouseUP
> Get field 1
> put it into field 2
> end mouse up
>
> the result is not only that field 2 is filled with garbage but filed 1 
> original text is turned in garbage as well
>
> any solution?
>

Try this as the button script:

on mouseUp
	set the unicodeText of field "2" to the unicodeText of field "1"
end mouseUp

Let me know if that works! - I'm curious to hear how Rev handles text 
in right-to-left languages.

Regards,

--
Igor de Oliveira Couto
----------------------------------
igor at pixelmedia.com.au
----------------------------------



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 11 18:02:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 11 18:02:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <36771416-B3EA-11D7-BE7F-000393C44AE0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B78F8657-B3F2-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 03:54  PM, Bill Vlahos wrote:

> I think Rev could make a pretty good server. The only example I'm 
> aware of is Tuviah' chat software at the RunRev user contributed page.
>
> I'd like to see a simple generalized example of a Rev web server app 
> designed for forms. I've done this sort of thing with AppleScript and 
> WebSTAR but Rev should be able to do the whole thing.
>
> The biggest issue would be how to effectively handle multiple 
> simultaneous request/conversations while keeping track of each of > them.

To really take it to the next level, I would recommend modeling it 
after ZOPE and ZODB. Zope is a web application platform built on 
Python, and it is layered upon ZODB, Z Object Database. So Zope is a 
web-aware, multiuser, multithreaded, transactional object persistence 
platform :-). I used to be really into Zope when I was using Python a 
lot. Kinda lost interest tho.

I'm sure a comparable thing could be implemented in transcript with a 
data stack's custom properties! (you know with those n-dimensional 
groups of custom properties in richard's article)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 11 19:01:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 11 19:01:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bb34ea5ba284@[216.229.107.20]>
Message-ID: <E56129C4-B3FA-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 04:39  PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Rev IPC Group

Wow! Sounds cool. Is there a URL or discussion group for this?


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Fri Jul 11 21:14:00 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Fri Jul 11 21:14:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
Message-ID: <20030712030633.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

Hi Alex,

I think that any of the xTalk/Hypercard-based models already have much of what is offered by ZODB.  The Zope object database is just a way of saving in-memory objects to a persistent data store.  As I understand it (in principle), ZODB is just an database for objects, written in Python, and capable of persisting Python data structures.  Really, a stack is just the same thing, only for xTalk.  

To me the xTalk way is far more acceptable (and I prefer xTalk to Python).  For me it is much easier to get a grasp of fields, cards and stacks than the objects that get packed away into the ZODB...

Having said all that, I don't want to belittle Zope.  It is a fantastic concept, and is probably on a par with J2EE and .Net as an object-oriented web application framework (I just hope that Apple are going to publicly re-market WebObjects, but I doubt it).  Given that Zope is open-source, not backed by Microsoft or Sun (nor Oracle, IBM, etc.), and that it is based on a scripting language, it is very impressive... OK, maybe it lacks the kinds of transactional complexity 'required' by 'enterprise' frameworks... (scare quotes intended.)

But I will be totally dumbfounded if the Rev/MC users come up with anything like it.  

However, there is no getting over the fact that Python doesn't even have a true IDE (don't talk to me about Wing), and Zope has to be programmed through a browser interface... browsers are a poor interface for users, so they are definitely are a poor interface for developers.  Moreover, the Zope project seems to be in perpetual flux with DTML, Plone, ZPT...

I looked at Zope long and hard, bought every book available, and gave up on it...

I'm heavily involved in web application platforms at the moment, and would love it if I could use Transcript rather than the panoply of solutions I am using.  Most of them are overkill for what is in principle actually quite straightforward.

I would love to see something like Zope, but using Transcript, and with a proper IDE (even the Metacard IDE is light years ahead of what is used for Zope)....

I really have little idea of what Transcript might be capable of vis a vis web applications.  (I've followed Pierre's work on the Metacard list, and it sounds quite amazing.)  

I'm using a lot of Java, but solely because I can use it to integrate diverse platforms.  

I have some idea that the principle limitation of the Rev engine in a multi-user environment is that it is not capable of threading.  To me that means that any new HTTP request is beholden on the previous request(s) having been dealt with in a timely manner.  Of course, most of us do not really want to get involved in multi-threaded programming (as I believe Scott Raney as pointed out in the past).  Nevertheless, given the present engine, I think it is a bit optimistic to rely on the speed of the engine to save us from surviving being slashdotted...  Most web users get frustrated if they have to wait more than a few seconds, and, yes, memory-resident data stores can be very fast...

I think that given adequate mechanisms for communication and data exchange the server-side data store is mostly irrelevant.  It is just a data store and there are many alternatives.  

Don't get me wrong. I think that for user-centric apps, Rev is the bees-knees (including web-awere, user-centric apps -- ok, REBOL and a couple of models are also pretty cool in that regard, but they aren't as elegant as Transcript, they don't have the genealogy of xTalk and Metacard, and they have really obscure[=costly?] licensing).  

IMHO this is where Runrev need to focus.  They really, REALLY need to see Revolution as a replacement for Java applets, Flash, REBOL, even replacing browsers as the UI for web apps.  This has barely been scratched by Richard's GoRevNet, as impressive as that is.

Just my tuppenceworth... I think many people here know considerably more than I do - I spend way too much time looking at non-Rev platforms!  So, I will be delighted to be corrected :-)

Regards
Bernard 

>>
To really take it to the next level, I would recommend modeling it 
after ZOPE and ZODB. Zope is a web application platform built on 
Python, and it is layered upon ZODB, Z Object Database. So Zope is a 
web-aware, multiuser, multithreaded, transactional object persistence 
platform
<<  




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 11 22:10:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 11 22:10:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <20030712030633.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
Message-ID: <411C7EA0-B415-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 08:06  PM, 
revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com wrote:

> To me the xTalk way is far more acceptable (and I prefer xTalk to 
> Python).  For me it is much easier to get a grasp of fields, cards and 
> stacks than the objects that get packed away into the ZODB...

Bernard, glad someone else is thinking along the same lines!

> Having said all that, I don't want to belittle Zope.  It is a 
> fantastic concept, and is probably on a par with J2EE and .Net as an 
> object-oriented web application framework (I just hope that Apple are 
> going to publicly re-market WebObjects, but I doubt it).

Aren't Apple actively marketing the "new" Java WebObjects?

> But I will be totally dumbfounded if the Rev/MC users come up with 
> anything like it.

Other than the threading problem which you mention below, why?

> However, there is no getting over the fact that Python doesn't even 
> have a true IDE (don't talk to me about Wing), and Zope has to be 
> programmed through a browser interface... browsers are a poor 
> interface for users, so they are definitely are a poor interface for 
> developers.  Moreover, the Zope project seems to be in perpetual flux 
> with DTML, Plone, ZPT...

I agree totally.

> I would love to see something like Zope, but using Transcript, and 
> with a proper IDE (even the Metacard IDE is light years ahead of what 
> is used for Zope)....

How about the Rev IDE can be used, and Revolution cards can somehow 
represent themselves via HTTP as XML, or as HTML + CSS!

> I really have little idea of what Transcript might be capable of vis a 
> vis web applications.  (I've followed Pierre's work on the Metacard 
> list, and it sounds quite amazing.)

I'll have to search for Pierre.

> I have some idea that the principle limitation of the Rev engine in a 
> multi-user environment is that it is not capable of threading.  To me 
> that means that any new HTTP request is beholden on the previous 
> request(s) having been dealt with in a timely manner.

It may be OK that there is no threading! I believe ZOPE is based upon 
the Medusa package of Python. See 
http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/medusa.html

"""
Medusa is an architecture for very-high-performance TCP/IP servers 
(like  HTTP, FTP, and NNTP). Medusa is different from most other 
servers because it runs as a single process, multiplexing I/O with its 
various client and server connections within a single process/thread.
"""
  ^ python style quoting :-)

> IMHO this is where Runrev need to focus.  They really, REALLY need to 
> see Revolution as a replacement for Java applets, Flash, REBOL, even 
> replacing browsers as the UI for web apps.  This has barely been 
> scratched by Richard's GoRevNet, as impressive as that is.

I agree- but replacing Java Applets or Flash is overly optimistic isn't 
it. Since there is no browser plugin for Revolution, we'll just have to 
do the converse and embed the browser into our apps with altBrowser!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Jul 12 00:05:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat Jul 12 00:05:00 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <200307110745.DAA32354@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB342120.1C21%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Scott

> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:47:10 -0700
> Subject: Re: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
> 
> Recently, Ken Norris wrote:
 
>> How? I couildn't get any of my paint programs, or even Photoshop, to make a
>> transparent PNG image of nothing.
>
> If the file has a background layer, delete it.
----------
Oh...hmmm...I didn't think of that, i.e., delete the background layer.

Thank you,
Ken N.



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Jul 12 00:32:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat Jul 12 00:32:00 2003
Subject: Image conversion still broken
In-Reply-To: <200307112102.RAA28550@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB34EAEA.1C44%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello all,

Rev 2.0.1 still refuses to convert a PICT to a PNG on Import. Tuviah said it
works, but I'm saying it's broken on my end. It will not work, period.

I have no reason to lie about it, and have not found a cure. Any help
appreciated.

Mac G4 tower, 350mHz, 500mb RAM, OS 9.2.1

TIA,
Ken N.



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 00:48:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sat Jul 12 00:48:00 2003
Subject: Bugzilla search
In-Reply-To: <A774860A-B3D9-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <20030712054102.60909.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com> wrote:
> 
> On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 02:15  AM, Wolfgang M.
> Bereuter wrote:
> 
> > It works for me with Camino too. But I could not
> make a query or 
> > report, because its to complicated for me...
> > Seems that I need a special training before I can
> use that =;(
> > What should I do now..?
> > Thanks for tips...
> 
> I think it's great the runrev team is running an
> open bug database that 
> we can all cooperate with. But in my opinion
> bugzilla has a confusing 
> and poorly designed user interface. No offense
> intended & I know 
> bugzilla was not written by the runrev team.
> 
> Also, it's a bummer bugzilla doesn't work with
> Safari. I never use 
> Mozilla, but installed it just to use bugzilla.
> 
> Does the database backend of bugzilla accept outside
> connections? Maybe 
> someone could write a simplified searching/browsing
> interface with rev.
> 
> Alex Rice

That had me thinking : Couldn't we use Revolution and
the SOAP toolbox to build a front-end for this sort of
thing ? (provided bugzilla talks SOAP, of course) 

Jan Schenkel.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 12 02:27:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 12 02:27:00 2003
Subject: Bugzilla search
In-Reply-To: <20030712054102.60909.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CB9A187-B439-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 11:41  PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> That had me thinking : Couldn't we use Revolution and
> the SOAP toolbox to build a front-end for this sort of
> thing ? (provided bugzilla talks SOAP, of course)
>
> Jan Schenkel.

Alas it looks like it has no SOAP.

google site:bugzilla.org +soap
=> 0 hits

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jul 12 07:20:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Jul 12 07:20:01 2003
Subject: Style question: returning error values from functions
Message-ID: <BB35491D.3089F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

When crafting a function it's often useful to provide info about any errors
that occur within it.

Commands have a great mechanism for this:  we can put error info into the
result, and the calling handler can check the result just as it does for any
built-in command.

But functions don't have this luxury, as the result is the return value.

Two types of solutions that have become popular over the years:

- XFCN-style: Error info is returned directly from the function, and the
calling handler needs to check for it with something like:

  get foobar()
  if word 1 of it = "error" then
     answer line 2 of it
     exit to top
  end if

This approach has been popular with XFCN authors for years, but the problem
is that it's potentially ambiguous: what if the function works correctly but
the first word in the returned data happens to be "error"?


- Separate function:  Similar to how the sysError function works, you put
any error info in a global or static var with a separate function to access
it:

   get foobar()
   if fooErr() is not empty then
      answer fooErr()
      exit to top
   end if

This completely separates returned data from error info unambiguously, but
requires a little more effort to define functions reliably with it (it needs
to be cleared at the top of any function that uses it).


Which approach do you prefer?  One of these?  Something else?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Sat Jul 12 07:21:01 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Sat Jul 12 07:21:01 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
Message-ID: <20030712131327.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

(Sorry folks, this is a long and rambling post...)

Hi Alex,

I suppose the vital issue for a mulit-user, server-side database is going to be concurrency - does it look to users that they are getting the immediate attention of the server, or are they left hanging around?  Moreover, can these apparently independent users update the database simultaneously without corrupting the data?  

Obviously even with threading, this is really a bit of a trick - because of processor speed, threading, I/O speed, etc.. the user should get the impression they are not in a queue.  But there are many technological issues to overcome for Rev to be able to provide this effect.

Clearly, if one has enough speed in the Rev engine and the server processor, and the IO requests do not slow things down, then the user can get the impression that they are the only one being served.

To some extent this is what happens with the use of MySQL on db-backed web sites - given the table structures used in MySQL, along with the stripped-down SQL conformance, it is fast enough to give the appearance of concurrency.  No request is blocking any other, or at least not to any user-perceptible degree.  Last time I looked at these debates, MySQL was using table-level locking, and relying on the speed of the db engine and the read-intensive nature of the web applications to prevent users noticing this.

If I remember rightly, it was this kind of reliance on speed (and forking of processors) that Pierre was using to have Rev acting as the CGI engine to a PostgreSQL db.  Normally people recommend against CGI becuase of the overhead of forking, but his scenario seems to run against this wisdom and yet be successful.  Nevertheless, by forking processes the engine is getting a kind of threading.

Another way to give users the impression of concurrency is to use in-memory databases, such that the IO delays are reduced.  This is one way that Rev already has an architectural advantage (although RDBMS also mimic this to some extent via caching).

But Rev dbs will need to be written to disk to prevent data loss in the event of a crash.

Furthermore, there is the whole issue of locking for writes to the database.  I'm not sure if the Serendipity db has any locking mechanism.  Without some kind of locking or versioning mechanism, I don't see how one can have a multiuser database.

To my way of thinking, it is better to exploit some of the freely available, tried and tested relational databases.  I recommended that Runrev look at closer integration with Firebird about a year ago, but nothing has come of it.  The technology in Firebird has been around for 20 years, so it is well-tested.  It is very highly conformant with SQL 92 (as high as all the mainstream dbs from big vendors).  Yet it also has a tiny footprint, so can be embedded with standalone applications. Oh yes, and it is multiplatform (win32, unix, os x, linux).   Last week I also drew the lists attention to SQLite (but there seemed to be little interest in this.)

I don't see any benefit from Rev users or Runrev re-inventing the wheel.  

Now, on to Zope :-)

The Zope framework is about publishing Zope objects to the web, and the ZODB is just a place to store these objects persistently.  However, Zope can also use various other storage facilities (relational dbs, filesystems, LDAP).

There are many great things in this framework - such as extensive security delegation, acquisition and DHTML at the most basic level, and Zope Page Templates and Products at a higher level.  Now, maybe this kind of framework could be implemented in Rev, but... these frameworks would require a lot of work to architect and built and maintain, and would require a lot of work to be usable by others.  This is one of the problems with using Zope.  The Zopistas make a big thing of when someone 'groks' [= 'comprehends'] Zope.  It requires a mind-shift, that could take several months of immersion in the product to acquire.

Now, Zope is backed by the Zope Corporation.  I've no idea of the size of it, but it is at least dedicated to very clear objectives: developing and maintaining the Zope product, and consultancy services to implement this product (where most of their revenue comes from).  I don't think that Zope would have survived if it wasn't open source.  And it is supported by quite an extensive army of Python developers.  And yet still most people in IT have never heard of Zope.

The real strength of what is going on with something like Zope is that it provides a framework for the architecture of dynamic websites (inheritance, authentication, persistence, componentization, etc).  I don't think this is the kind of thing one wants to build into Rev, nor build with Rev.  Not that it can't be done, but it is a huge undertaking to do it, and a huge undertaking for anyone to commit to using it.

I agree totally with the idea of greater integration of Rev with web standards and technologies, but I don't think that the aim should be on server-side processing.  I mentioned this also on the list recently, but was met by a fairly dead silence.  I asked what Runrev's plans for XML were, and pointed out that it seemed to be a bit unclear as to the purpose of including XML functionality in the latest version.  Geoff Canyon responded to say he has a stack that can transform a Rev app to XML and can transform XML to Rev.  But it doesn't work with Rev 2, so as far as I can see, they still don't have any clear plan for XML integration.

IIRC, the altBrowser is IE only?  I would not like to rely on Microsoft for anything.  They have a history of destroying competition (by fair means or foul).  And it is my belief that we have seen nothing yet: they are going to tighten their monopoly position in ways that many people have not yet imagined.

If Runrev is going to become more closely integrated with a browser, then I would strongly suggest that people consider the Gecko rendering engine from the Mozilla project.  Yes, I know that the Mozilla browser can be a bit of a sloth compared to IE (although I don't think they are that different - I've seen IE take up to 100mb of RAM on my laptop...yep, 100mb!)  I'm unclear as to how big a task it might be to employ Gecko.  I suspect that MS make it relatively easy to integrate IE (people behind the Mozilla project just didn't get it, until Apple snubbed them with Safari).

I don't think one should get hung up on web browsers as a platform.  They are a joke.  Try developing quite simple CSS that work in IE6 on XP, then view them in IE on OS X and see them not work.  Same applies to Netscape and Mozilla.  Same applies to Javascript.  

Why is replacing Java applets or Flash over-optimistic?  [If you ask me, the whole idea of downloading Java applets was wildly more optimistic than my suggestion :-)]  If it can done by Sun and Macromedia, it can be done by RunRev!  OK, Runrev is orders of magnitude smaller...

So what is required?
a) integration with web technology (especially XML)
b) trust (certification) and/or a local security sandbox.

These are both achievable (and probably in many different ways), and I think the market potential is phenomenal.   

What I am interested in is the idea of distributed applications built using Rev.  The web technologies serve to integrate the Rev apps with server-side data stores and processing.  If this runs in a browser, all the better.  There are other companies out there right now doing this.  As far as I can see, the only thing stopping them is their low profile and their high or obscure licensing costs. (Oh yes, and a few are tied to IE).

But I don't see that Runrev recognize the potential.  And I'm starting to think it's just you and me talking :-)  Rev is the best RAD tool I've seen for generating client apps.  But I think we are inexorably moving to a connected world, and it will be the distributed apps that have the greatest potential.  I would like to see Runrev move into this area and dominate it.  I think REBOL is dying (sad to say) - they have just open-sourced parts of it, and since this was not something they were prepared to do before in their (relatively long) history, I think that is symptomatic of their problems. 

My vision is to be able to rapidly develop and deploy lightweight applications to multiple platforms.  They should be capable of securely retrieving and storing their data on central repositories.  They should have fantastically creative GUIs [I would have to employ a designer for that ;-)]  They should be very responsive. They should be dynamically reconfigurable - if I make a central change, the applications would all be capable of re-writing that part of themself when they re-connect.

I think Revolution is already capable of 95% of this.  And I don't see anything that comes close to this vision (except REBOL).  

I want to be able to use Rev as I have described above within the next 6 to 12 months.  My Java projects will keep me busy until then.  If I can't do these things with Rev then I shall have to re-consider the alternatives.  But with the alternatives I will lose things like platform independence.

My apologies for such a lengthy post...

Regards
Bernard.

>>
How about the Rev IDE can be used, and Revolution cards can somehow 
represent themselves via HTTP as XML, or as HTML + CSS!
[snip]
I agree- but replacing Java Applets or Flash is overly optimistic isn't 
it. Since there is no browser plugin for Revolution, we'll just have to 
do the converse and embed the browser into our apps with altBrowser!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
<<


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 12 08:29:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 12 08:29:01 2003
Subject: Style question: returning error values from functions
In-Reply-To: <BB35491D.3089F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C523BA76-B46B-11D7-841A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 06:11 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> When crafting a function it's often useful to provide info about any  
> errors
> that occur within it.

Arg.  Thought I answered on this list, but did on the other.  I wrote  
this:

> On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 06:11 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> Which approach do you prefer?  One of these?  Something else?
>
> I use these:
>
> 1.  Reshape the semantics so there are no errors.
> 2.  Throw
> 3.  Value returned in referenced variable and success/fail (or  
> related) returned.
> 4.  Separate domain validation functions (used before instead of  
> after) with, perhaps, #2 or #10
> 5.  Callback (very rarely for functions; I'll ignore this)
>
> Sometimes #1 is like your "error" prefix but not always.  For example,  
> char 5 of "abc" returns a reasonable value, empty, rather than an  
> error. In this approach what is reasonable depends on the function.   
> Another #1 approach is to define a way to coerce parameters to the  
> nearest closest value.  A general scheme can be used for numbers that  
> uses rounding and bounding as needed.
>
> The callback might reduce to changing a global error to a local error.
>
> These are also acceptable to me:
> 6.  Global
> 7.  Function like sysError()
> 8.  Error returned in referenced variable in parameters
> 9.  Use NaN, +Inf, etc for numerical functions (like #1)
> 10.  Let the function throw error or return garbage; used with #4
>
> Revolution built-in functions and operators use 1-3.  Of #1 some  
> return reasonable values and some coerce parameters to the function  
> domain.
>
> I readily use throw in scripts for my own use.  I also have used it in  
> a library I will make generally available, and I'm thinking of  
> changing the scripts so that they do not throw.  Are people  
> comfortable with throw?
>
> The value of functions is that you can use them in expressions.  If  
> you have to check after each use, then you lose the benefit.  That  
> makes #2 (throw) with perhaps #4 (data checking beforehand) more  
> interesting.

Dar

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Sat Jul 12 08:52:00 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Sat Jul 12 08:52:00 2003
Subject: Style question: returning error values from functions
Message-ID: <20030712144418.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

Hi Dar,

I did a quick search of the list archive, and there is very little discussion of the use of Try and Throw.  I suspect quite a few of us on the list might benefit from becoming more comfortable in using Try and Throw.

Bernard

> Are people comfortable with throw?
>
> The value of functions is that you can use them in expressions.  If  
> you have to check after each use, then you lose the benefit.  That  
> makes #2 (throw) with perhaps #4 (data checking beforehand) more  
> interesting.  



From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Jul 12 09:22:03 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Jul 12 09:22:03 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <20030712131327.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
References: <20030712131327.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
Message-ID: <a05100301bb35bd59621f@[216.229.107.20]>

Hi Bernard,

>Furthermore, there is the whole issue of locking for writes to the 
>database.  I'm not sure if the Serendipity db has any locking 
>mechanism.

The single-user version of SDB currently available at my ftp site 
does not; the Client/Server version now being alpha tested does.
>
>Without some kind of locking or versioning mechanism, I don't see 
>how one can have a multiuser database.

One could use HyperCard's "only the first one to open a stack can 
modify it" approach; however, in general I agree.

>
>To my way of thinking, it is better to exploit some of the freely 
>available, tried and tested relational databases.

I have remained fairly mute on this issue because I had no real 
experience with the RunRev db alternatives: I created SDB close to a 
decade ago, and there was no doubt in my mind I would use it for 
OenoLog and my other personal projects.

I have since had to explore MySQL in some depth for a project I am 
working on for someone else...{who is now taking a serious look at 
SDB). The more I work with MySQL, the more I'm convinced that, for 
the x-Talks community, SDB blows SQL away in terms of usability:

* In my estimation, 99% of SQL data typing is non-sequitur for xTalks 
that deal primarily with strings.

* In my estimation, 80% of SQLs parsing, sorting, and formatting 
functions can be handled just as easily in Transcript at the client 
end; thus reducing the load on the server.

* In my estimation, at least 85% of SQL syntax has to do with query 
functions that at least 95% of my clients/applications don't need or 
want.

* Server Installation:

MySQL Server must be installed (& maintained) on Mac OS X in the Unix 
root via the Terminal application using Unix command line syntax. 
The server will not run on Ma OS 9.

SDB Server can be dragged to any folder that the O/S allows 
applications to reside in.

* Cross-Platform Installation:

MySQL requires platform-specific drivers in the form of extensions, DLLs, etc.

SDB runs as native Transcript in one version on any platform 
Revolution supports.

* Security:

MySQL requires password security & user identification before it can 
be used, and supports limited access to the field level.

SDB supports edit & browse passwords, but requires NO password 
protection or user identification for use.  [User id can be supported 
by defining a user record in the data dictionary and scripting 
support for same.]

* Data Dictionary:

MySQL requires creation of a data dictionary record (table 
definition) for each record type before records can be filed.  That 
table definition must name & type every field (column) in the table. 
If you have 100 fields, you must name & type all 100.  So far as I 
can see there is no shortcut to specify all fields in one record in a 
table ("*" specifies all records in the table); so to select one 
record with 100 fields one must specify each field by name in the 
SELECT command.  [I cannot believe there is not some simple syntax 
for this; but no one has clued me in as to what it is.]

SDB's data dictionary is optional.  The SDB server can deal with the 
record without knowing its structure and the user can reference 
individual fields by number instead of creating data name entries in 
the Dictionary.

* User Input Editing:

MySQL can only check user input for its specific edit types, and then 
only when the record is processed by the server.  Most of the edit 
types are meaningless when working in Transcript.

SDB Client's frontScript can filter each keystroke based on data 
dictionary edit criteria and provide immediate feedback to the user. 
The Dictionary entry can also specify a Transcript edit handler & 
formatting instructions to be applied to the user's input on 
closeField.

* Access to Source Code:

MySQL is open source...in C & C++.  Anyone want to mess with that?

SDB is open source...in Transcript.

* Stability of Engine:

MySQL has been in use by thousands of users for many years and is 
proven with gigabyte+ databases.

SDB has been used by a handful of users for many years with 
single-user db's generally < 1MB (or 5K records); HOWEVER, the 
underlying MetaCard card-by-id index, which can be used directly by 
all SDB record manipulation calls except fileSDBRecord, has been used 
by thousands of users for many years and is proven for whatever MC/RR 
stack contains the most cards.

* Utility of features:

The MySQL syntax is designed to facilitate AD HOC db queries from 
many programming environments, and places the overhead for filtering, 
sorting, & formatting data on the server.  It supports the data types 
present in traditional non-xTalks dbs.  The majority of MySQL's data 
types and server data manipulation are not needed, as data in fields 
or passed as arguments is in string format and data manipulation is 
better handled in Transcript.

SDB syntax is designed for fast, efficient storage & retrieval of 
string data for RunRev & MC specifically, using preset (as opposed to 
ad hoc) index paths.  It supports filtering, sorting, and formatting 
at the Client end in Transcript syntax.

* DB Editing:

MySQL stores data in files that are inaccessible & undecipherable to 
the programmer & system administrator.

SDB stores data in string format that can be understood & directly 
edited by the programmer & system administrator.

-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Jul 12 09:23:48 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Jul 12 09:23:48 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <E56129C4-B3FA-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <E56129C4-B3FA-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bb35c68188db@[216.229.107.20]>

>>Rev IPC Group
>
>Wow! Sounds cool. Is there a URL or discussion group for this?

Alex, et al:

I should know it, as Jan made me co-moderator last December; but I 
have not exercised those powers yet.

Try <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/revolution_ipc>.  If there is no 
subscribe option there, I'm sure Jan will post instructions here.

BTW, the SDB version I'm now testing is NOT the last version posted 
to RevIPC.  I am using Jan's first-release client-side handlers with 
his second-release server-side handlers pending the imminent release 
of his third version of the IPC library.  I will be posting a new 
version of SDB to the RevIPC group within a day or two of Jan's 
release of the new library.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From jameslewes at comcast.net  Sat Jul 12 09:40:00 2003
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (James Lewes)
Date: Sat Jul 12 09:40:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bb35bd59621f@[216.229.107.20]>
Message-ID: <A43AF2F4-B475-11D7-B6CD-000502F78A80@comcast.net>

what is the ftp address where single user copies can be found


On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 10:03  AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Hi Bernard,
>
>> Furthermore, there is the whole issue of locking for writes to the 
>> database.  I'm not sure if the Serendipity db has any locking 
>> mechanism.
>
> The single-user version of SDB currently available at my ftp site does 
> not; the Client/Server version now being alpha tested does.
>>
>> Without some kind of locking or versioning mechanism, I don't see how 
>> one can have a multiuser database.
>
> One could use HyperCard's "only the first one to open a stack can 
> modify it" approach; however, in general I agree.
>
>>
>> To my way of thinking, it is better to exploit some of the freely 
>> available, tried and tested relational databases.
>
> I have remained fairly mute on this issue because I had no real 
> experience with the RunRev db alternatives: I created SDB close to a 
> decade ago, and there was no doubt in my mind I would use it for 
> OenoLog and my other personal projects.
>
> I have since had to explore MySQL in some depth for a project I am 
> working on for someone else...{who is now taking a serious look at 
> SDB). The more I work with MySQL, the more I'm convinced that, for the 
> x-Talks community, SDB blows SQL away in terms of usability:
>
> * In my estimation, 99% of SQL data typing is non-sequitur for xTalks 
> that deal primarily with strings.
>
> * In my estimation, 80% of SQLs parsing, sorting, and formatting 
> functions can be handled just as easily in Transcript at the client 
> end; thus reducing the load on the server.
>
> * In my estimation, at least 85% of SQL syntax has to do with query 
> functions that at least 95% of my clients/applications don't need or 
> want.
>
> * Server Installation:
>
> MySQL Server must be installed (& maintained) on Mac OS X in the Unix 
> root via the Terminal application using Unix command line syntax. The 
> server will not run on Ma OS 9.
>
> SDB Server can be dragged to any folder that the O/S allows 
> applications to reside in.
>
> * Cross-Platform Installation:
>
> MySQL requires platform-specific drivers in the form of extensions, 
> DLLs, etc.
>
> SDB runs as native Transcript in one version on any platform 
> Revolution supports.
>
> * Security:
>
> MySQL requires password security & user identification before it can 
> be used, and supports limited access to the field level.
>
> SDB supports edit & browse passwords, but requires NO password 
> protection or user identification for use.  [User id can be supported 
> by defining a user record in the data dictionary and scripting support 
> for same.]
>
> * Data Dictionary:
>
> MySQL requires creation of a data dictionary record (table definition) 
> for each record type before records can be filed.  That table 
> definition must name & type every field (column) in the table. If you 
> have 100 fields, you must name & type all 100.  So far as I can see 
> there is no shortcut to specify all fields in one record in a table 
> ("*" specifies all records in the table); so to select one record with 
> 100 fields one must specify each field by name in the SELECT command.  
> [I cannot believe there is not some simple syntax for this; but no one 
> has clued me in as to what it is.]
>
> SDB's data dictionary is optional.  The SDB server can deal with the 
> record without knowing its structure and the user can reference 
> individual fields by number instead of creating data name entries in 
> the Dictionary.
>
> * User Input Editing:
>
> MySQL can only check user input for its specific edit types, and then 
> only when the record is processed by the server.  Most of the edit 
> types are meaningless when working in Transcript.
>
> SDB Client's frontScript can filter each keystroke based on data 
> dictionary edit criteria and provide immediate feedback to the user. 
> The Dictionary entry can also specify a Transcript edit handler & 
> formatting instructions to be applied to the user's input on 
> closeField.
>
> * Access to Source Code:
>
> MySQL is open source...in C & C++.  Anyone want to mess with that?
>
> SDB is open source...in Transcript.
>
> * Stability of Engine:
>
> MySQL has been in use by thousands of users for many years and is 
> proven with gigabyte+ databases.
>
> SDB has been used by a handful of users for many years with 
> single-user db's generally < 1MB (or 5K records); HOWEVER, the 
> underlying MetaCard card-by-id index, which can be used directly by 
> all SDB record manipulation calls except fileSDBRecord, has been used 
> by thousands of users for many years and is proven for whatever MC/RR 
> stack contains the most cards.
>
> * Utility of features:
>
> The MySQL syntax is designed to facilitate AD HOC db queries from many 
> programming environments, and places the overhead for filtering, 
> sorting, & formatting data on the server.  It supports the data types 
> present in traditional non-xTalks dbs.  The majority of MySQL's data 
> types and server data manipulation are not needed, as data in fields 
> or passed as arguments is in string format and data manipulation is 
> better handled in Transcript.
>
> SDB syntax is designed for fast, efficient storage & retrieval of 
> string data for RunRev & MC specifically, using preset (as opposed to 
> ad hoc) index paths.  It supports filtering, sorting, and formatting 
> at the Client end in Transcript syntax.
>
> * DB Editing:
>
> MySQL stores data in files that are inaccessible & undecipherable to 
> the programmer & system administrator.
>
> SDB stores data in string format that can be understood & directly 
> edited by the programmer & system administrator.
>
> -- 
>
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From martin at harbourtown.co.uk  Sat Jul 12 09:50:00 2003
From: martin at harbourtown.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Sat Jul 12 09:50:00 2003
Subject: Image conversion still broken
Message-ID: <l03130300bb35c9691ced@[62.137.19.106]>

>Ken Norris wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>Rev 2.0.1 still refuses to convert a PICT to a PNG on Import. Tuviah said it
>works, but I'm saying it's broken on my end. It will not work, period.
>
>I have no reason to lie about it, and have not found a cure. Any help
>appreciated.
>
>Mac G4 tower, 350mHz, 500mb RAM, OS 9.2.1
>
>TIA,
>Ken N.

What I don't understand Ken, is why you are talking about needing to
convert the PICT ?
When I use the import paint command in a script to import a pict, it just
appears on the card. I'm using a mac with OS 8 so how does the convert
dialog enter the picture ?

martin




From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Jul 12 10:09:00 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Jul 12 10:09:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <A43AF2F4-B475-11D7-B6CD-000502F78A80@comcast.net>
References: <A43AF2F4-B475-11D7-B6CD-000502F78A80@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <a05100301bb35d10d0334@[216.229.107.19]>

>what is the ftp address where single user copies can be found

I wish you had not asked that question, James.

I clicked on the URL I was about to post, and found that the upshot 
of my ongoing (1 month, a dozen or more eMails, four phone calls, six 
faxes) effort to get Network Solutions to do what they needed to do 
so my new domain registry could handle my domain renewal, 
www.oenolog.com is off the 'Net.

Looks like I'm going to have to put SDB development aside while I 
complain to ICANN.  Fortunately, it's not a high volume site: most 
wineries on my mailing list are waiting for a version of OenoLog that 
runs on Windows.

I'll let you know when the site is up again.

-- 
Rob Cozens
<http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm>

Vive R Revolution!


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Jul 12 10:46:00 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Jul 12 10:46:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <20030712145726.5764.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030712145726.5764.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bb35d445c4da@[216.229.107.19]>

Everyone,

Jan passed his thoughts on some of this to me privately.  I'm posting 
my response to the list because (a) I think I know him well enough 
that he won't mind, and (b) to save any else the time of correcting 
me regarding selecting all columns of a single record.

>
>In our projects, we set in MySQL a single password and
>priviledges for the project, and handle the user
>password logic in our own programs.

But don't you have to create a user table in the DB with one entry 
for each user?  Or can the same user be active from more than one 
work station?

>
>Actually, 'SELECT * FROM customers' will give you all
>the customers, simply because you hadn't specified a
>WHERE-clause in your query.
>The * means 'all fields'. If you execute a 'SELECT *
>FROM customers WHERE customer_id=123456' query, you
>will get all the fields for that one customer ID.

Thanks for correcting me.  As I noted, I couldn't believe there was 
not syntax for this; but I didn't see it in the manual and no one had 
corrected me up to now.

>
>Though that can be easier for some type of projects,
>especially if you're building a hierarchical database,
>it's easier to remember a name than a number.

I agree; but just because it's easier doesn't mean it should be a 
requirement.  Should xTalks not allow references by id or ordinal?

>Plus, you can swap column sequences and insert new
>columns for greater consistency without bringing
>existing apps to your knees.
>

With SDB, I see no situation that causes the existing portion of the 
record format EVER to be modified.  Since fields are variable-length, 
changing a field size does not require changes in existing apps' 
logic [though the size of the field in the window might change].  New 
fields can all be appended to the end of the record: their position 
in the record has no relation to their position in the window. 
Obsolete fields can be left in the record definition at a cost of one 
extra delimiter character. It is true that the record field numbers 
and their corresponding windows' field numbers may no longer be in 
the same order--they were not likely to be in a one-to-one 
correspondence anyway.

That being said, I certainly intend to build a data dictionary for 
OenoLog and reference fields by dataName.

However, someone with a simple database structure can manipulate 
packing fields into a record and unpacking them again directly in the 
stack logic and never have to create user- or data-definition tables 
in the db.  Tell SDB Server, "file this record with this record type 
& key; return it when I pass this record type & key", and the server 
needs no information from the db about the user requesting the 
service or the structure of the record.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Sat Jul 12 11:13:01 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Sat Jul 12 11:13:01 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
Message-ID: <20030712170514.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

Hi Rob,

I did take a look on your web site a few weeks or months ago for some documentation on SDB.  I didn't find it, and guessed that you thought that anyone who was really interested would take a look at the code, since you kindly make it available for us to read.  Sorry, I was too lazy, and was just looking for an overview of what it was about.  This email gives me some more idea concerning that, so thank you.

I wasn't meaning to criticize or pour cold water on this project.  I was more responding to Alex's suggestions about Zope and ZODB.  I think that the kind of effort involved in producing something like that would be immense.

However, let me respond to some of your other points:

>>
* In my estimation, 99% of SQL data typing is non-sequitur for xTalks 
that deal primarily with strings.
<<
I agree with this.  I pointed out when I posted on the existence of SQLite that all data is stored as strings, and that this would probably be amenable to xTalkers.  However, there are good reasons for tightly controlling the datatypes in backend databases, especially if multiple programmers/programs/languages are going to be sharing this data.

>>
* In my estimation, 80% of SQLs parsing, sorting, and formatting 
functions can be handled just as easily in Transcript at the client 
end; thus reducing the load on the server.
<<
Agreed, and this is probably the case with many languages.  However, depending on the data sizes and speeds of network connections, one really may not want to shunt huge amounts of data around when it can be pre-processed by the backend before it is sent across the network.  In certain circomstances this may lead to a reduction in dataset size. Furthermore it may well be that one wants the potential to have it processed on really beefed up hardware.

>>
MySQL Server must be installed (& maintained)
<<
Again, there are freely-available multi-platform, embeddable databases such as Firebird and SQLite.  They are virtually maintenance free.

>>
* Security:
<<
... is a boon or a nuisance, depending on the circumstances :-)

>>
If you have 100 fields, you must name & type all 100.  So far as I 
can see there is no shortcut to specify all fields in one record in a 
table ("*" specifies all records in the table); so to select one 
record with 100 fields one must specify each field by name in the 
SELECT command.
<<
I don't understand all of this.  I understand that (generally) there is no way to define a series of fields in a batch process (although some Object-Relational mapping tools could do this).  With regard to selecting the data from these fields in SQL then "select * from myTable" will do that.  I'm sure you mean something else than this though.  [I think your subsequent post about this has probably cleared this up.]

>>
* User Input Editing:
<<
Agreed.  It does seem rather pointless defining the valid datatype in the back end and then having to duplicate validation rules in all front end apps.  I'm working on mechanisms to make this a uniform process with a single point of definition.

>>
SDB is open source...in Transcript.
<<
A big plus :-)

>>
the underlying MetaCard card-by-id index, which can be used directly by 
all SDB record manipulation calls except fileSDBRecord
<<

I'm quite curious about this indexing.  Can you explain more about this?  I think that one of the benefits of external file-based dbs is that indices can be constructed over many different fields, leading to speedier access paths for pertinent information.  If this could be done in SDB then that would also be a big plus.

One major issue I would see with a stack-based database is that it is memory-resident (if it is behaving as a normal stack).  Clearly this would be very fast.  But what do you do about writing the changes to disk?  Is the whole stack written out?  What happens in a database that is bigger than available RAM?  Assuming enough RAM (say 1 or 2gb), what happens when such a db is being written to disk.

I'm very pleased to learn more about SDB.  I hope it has far more potential than I have realised.

Regards
Bernard  



From ms1 at soas.ac.uk  Sat Jul 12 11:27:01 2003
From: ms1 at soas.ac.uk (muaadh salih)
Date: Sat Jul 12 11:27:01 2003
Subject: Hebrew Arabic texts
Message-ID: <p04320400bb353b386a89@[193.63.73.136]>

I have, partially,  solved the Unicode text, We are now  working on 
Chunk and bits
There is an urgent problem : Text Insertion.

Both Languages have
  R to L text alignment which is fine but the text insertion make the 
line back to front
examples:

Real Arabic-Hebrew  should read :
Word4  Word3  word 2 Word1
But in revolution it is :
Word1 word2 word3 word 4
We tried every thing ( including  system text Align) but it does not work


Any way to deal with this problem ?
Help !
-- 

All the best

---------------
M.  Salih
N.M.E. Dept.
SOAS
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
London WCIH OXG

Tel. (UK) 020  7898 4354 Direct
               020  7898 4320 Dept.
eMail: ms1 at soas.ac.uk



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 12 11:42:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 12 11:42:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <20030712131327.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
Message-ID: <C8B80556-B486-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 06:13  AM, 
revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com wrote:

>
> (Sorry folks, this is a long and rambling post...)

Bernard, you are raising lots of interesting issues but I disagree with 
you about some of technical possibilities.

- Very high performance servers can be constructed in a single thread 
on the Medusa design

- Python is a scripting language with an object persistence scheme.

- Transcript is a scripting language with data stacks and custom 
properties (like object persistence)

Technically, the starting points are the same. I conclude that Python 
has nothing up on us, and it's totally possible to do it in Revolution.

If you are arguing on business and organizational grounds that it's not 
a good idea, that we don't want to be kind of second-rate ZOPE 
competitor with less programmers and less funding and less organization 
then I can agree with that.

> I don't see any benefit from Rev users or Runrev re-inventing the 
> wheel.

Agreed. But custom properties are *fast* and integrate completely into 
revolution. So let's use them! I get tired of SQL and this is one of 
the things that appealed to me about Zope.

> Now, on to Zope :-) ...

All well put.

> I agree totally with the idea of greater integration of Rev with web 
> standards and technologies, but I don't think that the aim should be 
> on server-side processing.  I mentioned this also on the list 
> recently, but was met by a fairly dead silence.

I do not think people should be prevented from using Rev on the server 
side, for lack of documentation or supporting. I think already Rev is 
firmly oriented on the client-side and one should not to worry it's 
going to suddenly turn into a server-side only solution.

> I asked what Runrev's plans for XML were, and pointed out that it 
> seemed to be a bit unclear as to the purpose of including XML 
> functionality in the latest version.

Huh? Maybe I don't understand the question. Obviously the purpose was 
to have an XML parser. I'm using it in my project. OK it's only 1 file 
of XML I'm parsing and could have easily done it with regular 
expressions instead- but since the XML parser is there I'm using it.

>  Geoff Canyon responded to say he has a stack that can transform a Rev 
> app to XML and can transform XML to Rev.  But it doesn't work with Rev 
> 2, so as far as I can see, they still don't have any clear plan for 
> XML integration.

Probably lack of time.

> IIRC, the altBrowser is IE only?  I would not like to rely on 
> Microsoft for anything.  They have a history of destroying competition 
> (by fair means or foul).  And it is my belief that we have seen 
> nothing yet: they are going to tighten their monopoly position in ways 
> that many people have not yet imagined.

Naturally... But embedding browsers into apps is something the 
Microsoft has offered and Apple (will) offer. I don't think either of 
them are going to stop offering an embed-able browser.

> If Runrev is going to become more closely integrated with a browser, 
> then I would strongly suggest that people consider the Gecko rendering 
> engine from the Mozilla project.  Yes, I know that the Mozilla browser 
> can be a bit of a sloth compared to IE (although I don't think they 
> are that different - I've seen IE take up to 100mb of RAM on my 
> laptop...yep, 100mb!)  I'm unclear as to how big a task it might be to 
> employ Gecko.  I suspect that MS make it relatively easy to integrate 
> IE (people behind the Mozilla project just didn't get it, until Apple 
> snubbed them with Safari).
>
> I don't think one should get hung up on web browsers as a platform.  
> They are a joke.  Try developing quite simple CSS that work in IE6 on 
> XP, then view them in IE on OS X and see them not work.  Same applies 
> to Netscape and Mozilla.  Same applies to Javascript.

Yes, as a former web developer/programmer, I agree. Also look at 
bugzilla. Their project goals state it will be "browser agnostic". Ha! 
So far it only works with mozilla.

> Why is replacing Java applets or Flash over-optimistic?

Because they have huge installed bases I guess. I think a lot of Flash 
users wouldn't touch Revolution one they saw the jaggy graphics in Rev. 
They are used to antialiased graphics I'm sure. Personally I dislike 
Java applets, so I wish Rev would kill them off.

> So what is required?
> a) integration with web technology (especially XML)
> b) trust (certification) and/or a local security sandbox.
>
> These are both achievable (and probably in many different ways), and I 
> think the market potential is phenomenal.

Agreed!

> I want to be able to use Rev as I have described above within the next 
> 6 to 12 months.
>
Well I hope it happens :-)


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Jul 12 12:31:00 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Jul 12 12:31:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <20030712170514.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
References: <20030712170514.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
Message-ID: <a05100308bb35e5b6ddea@[216.229.107.19]>

Bernard, et al:

>
>I did take a look on your web site a few weeks or months ago for 
>some documentation on SDB.  I didn't find it,

No, it, like the page in my signature below, is not linked to the 
main website.  That's a spare time project, as the website is meant 
to promote OenoLog and there is nothing to promote to the majority of 
those on my mailing list until I can deploy on Windows.

>  >>
>the underlying MetaCard card-by-id index, which can be used directly by
>all SDB record manipulation calls except fileSDBRecord
><<
>
>I'm quite curious about this indexing.  Can you explain more about this?

The structure of an SDB database stack is:

	One index card with two fields
		Db Index
		Comments
	One record card for each record, with three fields
		Record Type
		Record Key
		Record Data

Record cards are filed in the stack in ascending order by Record Type 
& Record Key

The db index field has one line per record type with three items
	Record Type
	First Card #
	Last Card #

SDB's current index search handlers do a simple binary search on the 
Record Key field values of cards between First Card # & Last Card #. 
[If simple binary searching proves too slow for large dbs, the design 
can easily accommodate support for an industrial-strength B-tree 
index for each Record Type];

however,

* the fileSDBRecord command returns the id of the db card containing 
the record for future use by the client app.

* the sdbRecordIndex function returns paired lists of the keys & card 
ids of all, or a selective subset, of the records of the passed 
record type.

* all SDB record retrieval syntax recognizes the special Record Type, 
"0", which indicates the value passed as the key is actually the RR 
db stack card id #.

>   I think that one of the benefits of external file-based dbs is 
>that indices can be constructed over many different fields, leading 
>to speedier access paths for pertinent information.  If this could 
>be done in SDB then that would also be a big plus.

Except for a brief and unpleasant experience with Ingres in the mid 
1980s, I have worked exclusively with hierarchical business dbs.  To 
access records based on the value of a non-key field (eg: customers 
in zip code order) one defines a cross-reference record whose key is 
zipCode&customerId.  One can then use the customerId portion of the 
key to retrieve the actual record, or in SDB one could put a record 
(card) id field in the record retrieved via the "zipCust" cross 
reference.

So long as one can define the field cross reference paths at system 
design, this works admirably.  The drawback to hierarchical design 
only comes into play when there is a need to efficiently support AD 
HOC queries for which the index cross reference structure has not 
been optimized.

This discussion was initiated a little earlier than I planned because 
of this thread...I was planning to announce SDB C/S with the subject, 
"If You Don't Need 'Q', SDB Will Do".

>
>One major issue I would see with a stack-based database is that it 
>is memory-resident (if it is behaving as a normal stack).  Clearly 
>this would be very fast.  But what do you do about writing the 
>changes to disk?  Is the whole stack written out?  What happens in a 
>database that is bigger than available RAM?  Assuming enough RAM 
>(say 1 or 2gb), what happens when such a db is being written to disk.

Whether the server should save the db stack(s) to disk periodically 
or on command or not until shutdown is an issue I won't know the 
answer to until I have more operational experience with SDB C/S.  If 
one has UPS, the basic risk of not saving until shutdown is the risk 
of hardware failure.  Yes, the entire db would be copied from RAM to 
disk as with any RunRev Save, and db access would be blocked until 
the save was finished.

In a dedicated server environment, the server will be installed on a 
hardware platform with the disk & RAM space it needs.  OTOH, the RAM 
requirements of the client stacks are much less because they load 
only one record at a time.

>
>I'm very pleased to learn more about SDB.  I hope it has far more 
>potential than I have realised.

As I said in my initial response, I made SDB available tom the 
RunRev/MC community but have not touted it because I didn't know 
enough about the available alternatives.  The more I learn about the 
other alternatives, the more I appreciate SDB.
-- 
Rob Cozens
<http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm>

Vive R Revolution!


From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Jul 12 12:36:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat Jul 12 12:36:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <20030712131327.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
Message-ID: <5A00E950-B48E-11D7-BB5E-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com,

> IIRC, the altBrowser is IE only?

No, you can also set it up to use Mozilla/NetScape, if installed!

> I would not like to rely on Microsoft for anything.  They have a
> history of destroying competition (by fair means or foul).
> And it is my belief that we have seen nothing yet: they are
> going to tighten their monopoly position in ways that many
> people have not yet imagined.

Yo, the good ol' "dark side" ;-)

Have a nice weekend...


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Jul 12 12:46:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sat Jul 12 12:46:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bb35d10d0334@[216.229.107.19]>
Message-ID: <BB3595E0.D842%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Rob Cozens wrote:

> I clicked on the URL I was about to post, and found that the upshot
> of my ongoing (1 month, a dozen or more eMails, four phone calls, six
> faxes) effort to get Network Solutions to do what they needed to do
> so my new domain registry could handle my domain renewal,
> www.oenolog.com is off the 'Net.

Suggestion: blow off Network Solutions.

They are too big, too complex and too expensive.

Not sure what you're looking to do with them but look at GoDaddy.com --
inexpensive domain registry (the way it should be), easy maintenance,
hosting, and more.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Jul 12 12:52:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Jul 12 12:52:01 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <5A00E950-B48E-11D7-BB5E-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <5A00E950-B48E-11D7-BB5E-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <a0510030abb35f8543d85@[216.229.107.19]>

>>I would not like to rely on Microsoft for anything.  They have a
>>history of destroying competition (by fair means or foul).
>>And it is my belief that we have seen nothing yet: they are
>>going to tighten their monopoly position in ways that many
>>people have not yet imagined.

Unless others follow Munich and adopt Linux as their standard OS.

Much as I dislike Unix (in my days, it was labeled the "user-hostile" 
O/S...or "guru-friendly" if one felt charitable), I'm rooting for 
Linux.

I just hope the Linux folks have a better sugar coating for command 
syntax than Apple:  the OS X Terminal app is pure retro:  1984 in so 
many connotations.
-- 
Rob Cozens
<http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm>

Vive R Revolution!


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Jul 12 13:02:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Jul 12 13:02:01 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <BB3595E0.D842%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BB3595E0.D842%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <a0510030bbb35fa35ae71@[216.229.107.19]>

>Suggestion: blow off Network Solutions.

Believe me, Scott, that's been the goal of my whole frustrating exchange.

If Network Solution was in charge of the President's security, not 
only would it have been impossible for an unidentified person to get 
on the press plane in Africa; the Chief of State himself would not 
have been been allowed on AF-1 after providing his identity code & a 
copy of his driver's license.

Not that anyone cares, but the problem arose when the registry trying 
to renew oenolog.com discovered the whois owner is smarttoolsinc.com, 
which I abandoned a few years ago, and I began the "easy" task of 
getting NS to update the whois entry.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Sat Jul 12 13:21:00 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Sat Jul 12 13:21:00 2003
Subject: Can Rev be used as server database?
Message-ID: <20030712191259.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the comments.  It is helping me to think things through.

>>
I do not think people should be prevented from using Rev on the server 
side, for lack of documentation or supporting. 
<<
I agree.  I too wish that the documentation on CGI programming with Rev was more pronounced.  However, so much of the industry is moving against CGI (because of process forking)... maybe it is an unnecessary move against CGI, given Moore's Law.  Maybe Pierre will chip in and tell us how feasible it really is.

Whilst there are things that can be learnt from Zope (and other open source projects), I think it would be a massive task for Rev users to try to reproduce something like that.  

For me, I would prefer to use one of the many available multi-user databases than try to build it all with Rev.  The same goes for the many different web application frameworks (having said that, I just spent several months building my own...)  For me the incredible potential of Rev is at the front end.

When you say that custom properties are fast, isn't it just the case that they are fast relative to working with data that is in fields in stacks?  Is there really any speed comparison that shows they are faster than in-memory data structures in other languages?  (I would love to be shown that data can be loaded and manipulated with custom properties much faster than with the in-memory data structures of other languages).

With regard to XML ... It is cool to have an XML parser in Rev.  But the potential is vast, and I hope to see some sign that Runrev have a strategic direction with this.  For example, it would be nice for them to integrate version control from within  Rev.  This surely must be of use to _all_ Rev developers.  And since CVS seems to be coming the standard and is open source, I see no reason why something like Geoff's XML stack couldn't be fully integrated into Rev along with a CVS module.  That way one could just convert a stack into human readable XML, store it in the CVS repository, and reconvert it back into a stack.  Furthermore, we could perform diffs on this so that we could see what had changed between two versions, etc.  Even if Runrev do not want the hassle of integrating with CVS, it would be beneficial if stacks could actually be emitted as XML to the filesystem so they could be diffed. 

As it is, it looks like XML support was included, but that there is no strategic direction on this.  Other platforms were at this level of XML integration 3 or more years ago.  Maybe with the further integration of Metacard and Runrev we will see more of their strategic vision.

Anyway, these proved to be a very pleasant and thoughtful afternoon :-)

Regards
Bernard
  



From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Jul 12 14:31:16 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat Jul 12 14:31:16 2003
Subject: Moving the MC IDE forward
In-Reply-To: <3F104DA1.8050601@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <D7952DD5-B479-11D7-9EBA-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
	 <3F104DA1.8050601@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1058037702.1758.99.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 20:04, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 7/12/03 10:02 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
> 
-- snip --
> 
> For those who prefer MC's simplicity, I don't see any harm in continuing 
> to assure it is compatible with the most current Rev engine. People will 
> still have to purchase Revolution to get full access to long scripts, so 
> RR won't lose any money by allowing folks a choice of IDEs. They have 
> already said they won't support alternate IDEs, so it won't cost them 
> anything.

And i wants to add that, because, some RR/MC apps needs to be build to
run with no GUI at all (backgrounder or console-mode apps and demons),
we needs to have a lightweight UI available to code, debug and maintain
this kind of apps, for a best usage of the memory and the processor by
the hosting servers.
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 12 14:47:01 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat Jul 12 14:47:01 2003
Subject: XML integration [was]Re: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <C8B80556-B486-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <DF763033-B4A0-11D7-AAC6-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com & Alex Rice wrote:

>> I asked what Runrev's plans for XML were, and pointed out that it 
>> seemed to be a bit unclear as to the purpose of including XML 
>> functionality in the latest version.
>
> Huh? Maybe I don't understand the question. Obviously the purpose was 
> to have an XML parser. I'm using it in my project. OK it's only 1 file 
> of XML I'm parsing and could have easily done it with regular 
> expressions instead- but since the XML parser is there I'm using it.
>
>>  Geoff Canyon responded to say he has a stack that can transform a 
>> Rev app to XML and can transform XML to Rev.  But it doesn't work 
>> with Rev 2, so as far as I can see, they still don't have any clear 
>> plan for XML integration.
>
> Probably lack of time.

& a few minutes ago: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com wrote:

> With regard to XML ... It is cool to have an XML parser in Rev.  But 
> the potential is vast, and I hope to see some sign that Runrev have a 
> strategic direction with this.  For example, it would be nice for them 
> to integrate version control from within  Rev.  This surely must be of 
> use to _all_ Rev developers.  And since CVS seems to be coming the 
> standard and is open source, I see no reason why something like 
> Geoff's XML stack couldn't be fully integrated into Rev along with a 
> CVS module.  That way one could just convert a stack into human 
> readable XML, store it in the CVS repository, and reconvert it back 
> into a stack.  Furthermore, we could perform diffs on this so that we 
> could see what had changed between two versions, etc.  Even if Runrev 
> do not want the hassle of integrating with CVS, it would be beneficial 
> if stacks could actually be emitted as XML to the filesystem so they 
> could be diffed.
>
> As it is, it looks like XML support was included, but that there is no 
> strategic direction on this.  Other platforms were at this level of 
> XML integration 3 or more years ago.  Maybe with the further 
> integration of Metacard and Runrev we will see more of their strategic 
> vision.
>
> Anyway, these proved to be a very pleasant and thoughtful afternoon :-)
>
> Regards
> Bernard

I don't know about CVS but I wrote this just before reading your last 
post:

You can create your own Rev stack-conversion based on validating XML 
with your own DTD, using well-formed XML and Rev's new XML 
capabilities.  Geoff Canyon had his own parser if I remember correctly. 
Anyway he must have written a process to convert a stack to XML. I'm 
sure that a transformation process could be written that converts  
Geoff Canyon's XML to a version that the new parser/DTD could read.

As far as Rev 2 having a "clear plan for XML integration" I doubt that 
putting stacks into XML and XML into stacks qualifies as a benchmark 
for XML integration. I would think there are very few uses where that 
capability would be necessary; I can think of only two off-hand. 
Someone could use high-level-encrypted XML to hide application 
processes or another could use XML to transmit business process. There 
is one problem with the second use. XML for business process is already 
forming around the development of a framework for the creation of BPML, 
Business Process Markup Language, which is heavily leaning towards SOAP 
as the model to integrate around. If there wear any "clear plan for XML 
integration," I would want to see added my own suggestion for a text 
based pull-parser that works on the XML document before it is opened 
into the tree mode. I would add to that the ability for the XML parser 
that exists now to handle namespaces. This XML namespace handling 
capability is at the heart of part of the RDF/semantic web framework 
development work as well as the human-markup language experiment & for 
the development of a framework for artificial intelligence.

I talked with someone on the XML development team for Rev 2 about the 
pull parser and to their credit they might be adding it or something 
like it to a Rev 2.5 future release. So to their credit there is 
definitely a "clear plan for XML integration."

just my (2^32 - 4294967294) cents
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From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 12 14:56:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 12 14:56:01 2003
Subject: Moving the MC IDE forward
In-Reply-To: <1058037702.1758.99.camel@www.kmax.net>
Message-ID: <E65C7AAF-B4A1-11D7-841A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 01:21 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> And i wants to add that, because, some RR/MC apps needs to be build to
> run with no GUI at all (backgrounder or console-mode apps and demons),
> we needs to have a lightweight UI available to code, debug and maintain
> this kind of apps, for a best usage of the memory and the processor by
> the hosting servers.

I would be interested in this.

Dar

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From edgore at shinra.com  Sat Jul 12 14:58:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Sat Jul 12 14:58:01 2003
Subject: Can't delete a standalone after running?
References: <20030712170514.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net> <a05100308bb35e5b6ddea@[216.229.107.19]>
Message-ID: <000701c348ae$e6ae5540$6701a8c0@ed>

On windows XP Home, I have noticed that if I build a standalone, exit
revolution, and run the standalone, I am unable to delete it afterwards
without restarting my computer.

The error message I get is:

Cannot delete xxxx.exe: Access is denied

Make sure that the disk is not full or write protected and that the file is
not currently in use.

Looks like there is a problem wih the standalone correctly closing....



From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 12 15:08:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 12 15:08:00 2003
Subject: Moving the MC IDE forward
In-Reply-To: <E65C7AAF-B4A1-11D7-841A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <7ED43506-B4A3-11D7-841A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 01:49 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 01:21 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>> And i wants to add that, because, some RR/MC apps needs to be build to
>> run with no GUI at all (backgrounder or console-mode apps and demons),
>> we needs to have a lightweight UI available to code, debug and  
>> maintain
>> this kind of apps, for a best usage of the memory and the processor by
>> the hosting servers.
>
> I would be interested in this.

I better qualify that.  I'd be interesting in making no-GUI apps and  
would be interested in tools to help in that.  However, I don't think I  
would mind using the full IDE to do that.  If the app needed to run on  
an embedded computer, I would either develop on another or build  
special tools for handling upgrades.

Dar


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 12 15:13:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 12 15:13:01 2003
Subject: Can't delete a standalone after running?
In-Reply-To: <000701c348ae$e6ae5540$6701a8c0@ed>
Message-ID: <3FDAFADF-B4A4-11D7-841A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 01:50 PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> On windows XP Home, I have noticed that if I build a standalone, exit
> revolution, and run the standalone, I am unable to delete it afterwards
> without restarting my computer.
>
> The error message I get is:
>
> Cannot delete xxxx.exe: Access is denied

Do you get that if you skip the "run the standalone" step?

Dar

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jul 12 15:20:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Jul 12 15:20:00 2003
Subject: XML integration [was]Re: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <DF763033-B4A0-11D7-AAC6-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BB35B991.308E9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Mark Brownell wrote:

> With regard to XML ... It is cool to have an XML parser in Rev.  But the
> potential is vast, and I hope to see some sign that Runrev have a strategic
> direction with this.  For example, it would be nice for them to integrate
> version control from within  Rev.  This surely must be of use to _all_ Rev
> developers.  And since CVS seems to be coming the standard and is open source,
> I see no reason why something like Geoff's XML stack couldn't be fully
> integrated into Rev along with a CVS module.  That way one could just convert
> a stack into human readable XML, store it in the CVS repository, and reconvert
> it back into a stack.

Why do you need to read an XML version of a stack?

> Furthermore, we could perform diffs on this so that we
> could see what had changed between two versions, etc.  Even if Runrev do not
> want the hassle of integrating with CVS, it would be beneficial if stacks
> could actually be emitted as XML to the filesystem so they could be diffed.

Couldn't you diff the binaries?

One use for stack-to-XML-and-back conversion that interested me a while back
was to be able to post simple stack definitions to the discussion list so
folks could run object-dependent code examples without having to create
objects manually.

While it's not much harder to make a more complete XML conversion tool, it
is much more tedious.

Am I the only one with an interest in this sort of stack-XML usage, or is
that where you were headed with the human-readability above?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 12 15:36:01 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat Jul 12 15:36:01 2003
Subject: XML integration [was]Re: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <BB35B991.308E9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C31129A2-B4A7-11D7-AAC6-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 01:11  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Mark Brownell wrote:
>
>> With regard to XML ... It is cool to have an XML parser in Rev.  But 
>> the
>> potential is vast, and I hope to see some sign that Runrev have a 
>> strategic
>> direction with this.  For example, it would be nice for them to 
>> integrate
>> version control from within  Rev.  This surely must be of use to 
>> _all_ Rev
>> developers.  And since CVS seems to be coming the standard and is 
>> open source,
>> I see no reason why something like Geoff's XML stack couldn't be fully
>> integrated into Rev along with a CVS module.  That way one could just 
>> convert
>> a stack into human readable XML, store it in the CVS repository, and 
>> reconvert
>> it back into a stack.
>
> Why do you need to read an XML version of a stack?

I don't. I didn't need it when I was learning how fun Realbasic 3.0 
was. I thought it was cute and interesting and I didn't give a darn. 
Come to think of it, Realbasic puts out so many upgrade releaces that 
it might be the only way to deal with the propblem. I don't know...

>
>> Furthermore, we could perform diffs on this so that we
>> could see what had changed between two versions, etc.  Even if Runrev 
>> do not
>> want the hassle of integrating with CVS, it would be beneficial if 
>> stacks
>> could actually be emitted as XML to the filesystem so they could be 
>> diffed.
>
> Couldn't you diff the binaries?

What's the diff? Why don't you ask Bernard, he wrote it.   :-)

>
> One use for stack-to-XML-and-back conversion that interested me a 
> while back
> was to be able to post simple stack definitions to the discussion list 
> so
> folks could run object-dependent code examples without having to create
> objects manually.

Good idea.

>
> While it's not much harder to make a more complete XML conversion 
> tool, it
> is much more tedious.
>
> Am I the only one with an interest in this sort of stack-XML usage, or 
> is
> that where you were headed with the human-readability above?

Bernard is, and I'm getting interested now. For human-readability I use 
MTML and PNLP because long ago I wanted human-readability and SGML says 
that would be a no-no. So for me I use a text based pull-parser and a 
tagging system that is easy to read.

Mark

>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site



From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Jul 12 16:11:11 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat Jul 12 16:11:11 2003
Subject: About MC/RR applications servers
Message-ID: <1058043718.1642.269.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 14:13, revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com wrote:

-- snip --

> If I remember rightly, it was this kind of reliance on speed (and
forking of processors) that Pierre was using to have Rev acting as the
CGI engine to a PostgreSQL db. Normally people recommend against CGI
becuase of the overhead of forking, but his scenario seems to run
against this wisdom and yet be successful.

-- snip --

Hi Folks, 
I'm new to the rev list but it seems it could be an idea to share a little about the way i 
use MC/RR to build deamon apps (not cgi - too slow and unsecure) to drive web's and erp's apps.

I.- About the working stuff and platforms :

1.- The client-side app :

a.- Web browsers (Netscape 4.7/4.8), Mozilla 1.x, Opera, for a good javascript support)
b.- MC/RR front-ends (sending POST requests over the web - LibURL requiered with MC 2.4+ and
Revolution)

2.- The server-side suit of stuff :

a.- Apache 1.3.x or 2.0.x
b.- PHP 3.x or PHP 4.0.x or PHP 4.1 or above
c.- Metacard 2.32 or above or Revolution 1.1.1 or above
d.- PostgreSQL 7.xx
e.- HTMLDOC 1.8 or above (dynamic PDF pages on-the-fly edition)

3.- The server platform :

a.- Linux 2.0 or above (2.4.21), natively able to start MC/RR deamon apps in console mode, 
from a startup script dropped in the "../rc3.d/.." directory.
b.- Jaguar, even if i had no time to build a production-grade issue of my apps on OSX, for yet.
c.- BSDs, Win32 and Solaris platforms must be ok too but, not tested for yet.

4.- The client-side platform :

a.- Web browsers : any that supports the needed browser (with or without the javascript support
option)
b.- MC/RR front-ends : any that supports the MC engine, even if, because some platform specific 
debbugging work is always needed, the best is to support the most used one only (aka Win32 and OSX).

II.- About the processes design (can send a pict schema, on demand) :

1.- The client-side app (Web browser or MC/RR front-end) sends a POST request to the Apache demon 
(on the standard 80 port), over the Web.

2.- The Apache demon (configured to accept up to 150 requests peer second) send the request to a 
.php sockets listener, witch open a socket on a root protected port to the MC/RR demon app running
in the background.

3.- The MC/RR read/split the POST request and, if the request is corresponding to a closed list of task
the demon is able to do, the job (AI calculations, flat files databases access, SQL requests), he does the
job, else nothing to prevent any attack or security lacking.

If the demand is not containing any SQL request, the MC/RR demon builds his answer and send it back to
the opened .PHP socket, close the socket and wait for the next request.

If the demand contains an SQL request, the MC/RR demon open a connection to the psql command-line client of 
the Postmaster demon of PostgreSQL trough a metatalk/transcript shell() request, waits for the response,
makes if needed calculations on the SQL datas reply and, send it back to the opened .PHP socket, close 
the socket and wait for the next request.

Comment : As anyone can see, the MC/RR app always runs as a slave server (of the .PHP sockets listener, on
the first side ; of the PostgreSQL Postmaster demon, on the second side. It was the best way to solve the
concurrency problems management : Apache+PHP are maintaining perfectly the client-side part of the problem.
The PostgreSQL Postmaster do the same about the muti-concurrents access to the databases, in an ACID SQL
level of quality only available in using first-class db servers (aka. 0racle 7/8/9, Firebird, SAPDB and
PostgreSQL.

About using the shell() in place of ODBC or others middleware to bind the MC/RR demon to the SQL server :
just lost more faster, best protection in the fact that only one user:password key is opened on the
PostMaster side (the MC/RR one, in localhost mode only), all the end-users clients authentifications and
sessions persistence are build on encrypted keys included in the "POST" datas.

Because the MC/RR demon has nothing to handle, by it-self, about the concurrent accesses and sessions,
because it's always able to respond very fast, there is no possibles lacks in the complete processes and,
because that, it ways to add to the MC/RR demon many special procedure to replace the ones that don't
work as easy and fast in the other parts of the server (aka. build-in replacements of the SQL triggers,
stoked procedure and vues).

This kind of apps is using, in production mode, 7/7 days and 24/24 hours, to serve Extranet web's and erp's
apps, with up to 1000 clients peer app. The clients are french administrations, in the education and towns
management sphere. I never add a server down since i use those kind of apps, else the time my provider add
all this servers down because no more electricity at all.

About PostgreSQL : It's, for me, the best and fastest ACID SQL server available today. Backups and databases 
restaurations are done in seconds and, in writing mode, it supports more concurrent accesses on the same record
(over 350 peer sec) than any other db server, Oracle included.

About MySQL : Its 3.23 issue dont support more than 10/15 writing-mode concurrent accesses. The 4.0.12-Max
issue is more sure (aka the same level of db like Sybase ASE 12.5 or MS SQL Server) but why use it when it's
no more harder to install and run PostgreSQL.

About Oracle 8/9i : i ran both issues of this server in binding them to one of my tests MC application server.
What i found was not so far from comic : the java-installer needs on-line corrections, from within the shell
to run up to the end of the installation. The footprint of the Oracle server is in 100's of Megs where the
PostgreSQL one is in Megs. The only good news is probably that, by default, the Oracle SQL*Plus demon seems
always able to handle the requests very fast (cache).

III.- About a more detailled presentation :

a.- Read, beside my post on the Metacard archive list, what many of us wrote on the subject
(Sadhu, Andu, and many others of us..).

b.- Ask again fore more specifics responses when needed.

Hope this can help,
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From Cubist at aol.com  Sat Jul 12 16:18:00 2003
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Sat Jul 12 16:18:00 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
Message-ID: <12f.2ddcbc49.2c41d357@aol.com>

sez ken norris:
>>I couildn't get any of my paint programs, or even Photoshop, to make a
>> transparent PNG image of nothing.
   My experience does not match yours...
   I'm using Photoshop 6.0 for Mac. I opened up an old .PSD file I had lying 
around, made some bits of it transparent, selected SAVE AS from the FILE MENU, 
and in the SAVE AS dialogue box, selected PNG as the file format. When I 
opened up the resulting PNG file, the transparent bits remained transparent. What 
are you doing differently than I did?

sez scott rossi:
>In Photoshop, create a new file of the dimensions you want with a single
>empty layer.  If the file has a background layer, delete it.  You should now
>see the checkerboard pattern in the document window.  Choose "Save for
>Web..." from the File menu as GIF with transparency enabled.
   This will work perfectly well. I used to do it myself, until I discovered 
another option which will also work *and* saves a bit of effort on the user's 
part...
   First: Make sure the background is the active layer. If the background is 
the *only* layer, you're covered.
   Second: Go to the LAYER menu, select the NEW submenu, select LAYER FROM 
BACKGROUND from the LAYER:NEW submenu.


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 16:29:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sat Jul 12 16:29:01 2003
Subject: Style question: returning error values from functions
In-Reply-To: <C523BA76-B46B-11D7-841A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20030712212152.55835.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> > I readily use throw in scripts for my own
> use. Are people comfortable with throw?

what is "throw"?
it sounds exciting.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sat Jul 12 16:30:01 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Sat Jul 12 16:30:01 2003
Subject: Can't delete a standalone after running?
Message-ID: <200307122123.RAA19162@bright.unitz.ca>

all this means is your app hasn't finished doing something
(i use to get this a lot with sockets, but now i'm wiser ;-)

all you need to do is bring up the task manager
("ctrl-alt-del" OR right-click the task bar and select it
from the menu), go to the "Processes" tab and find your
program, select it and click the "end process" button, click
"ok" on the dialog..


----- Original Message Follows -----
> The error message I get is:
> Cannot delete xxxx.exe: Access is denied


From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Sat Jul 12 16:55:00 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Sat Jul 12 16:55:00 2003
Subject: About MC/RR applications servers
Message-ID: <20030712224658.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

Thanks Pierre for stepping in.  I had indeed misremembered what I had read a few months ago.

This makes very interesting reading and is a great overview of what you have done.

Let me see if I understand your process:

>>
2.- The Apache demon (configured to accept up to 150 requests peer second) send the request to a 
.php sockets listener, witch open a socket on a root protected port to the MC/RR demon app running
in the backg
<<
Do I take it from this that Apache thinks it is talking to a PHP engine?  That your MC app is answering as though it is going to process .PHP files?

>>
If the demand contains an SQL request, the MC/RR demon open a connection to the psql command-line client of 
the Postmaster demon of PostgreSQL trough a metatalk/transcript shell() request, waits for the response,
makes if needed calculations on the SQL datas reply and, send it back to the opened .PHP socket
<<
If I understand so far, the MC demon app then processes the request, shelling out to the OS and invoking the command-line interface to the PostgreSQL SQL interpreter.

If I have understood it, then it is quite surprising that it should be so fast.  Surely the invokation of the shell() to connect to PostgreSQL is precisely the kind of process forking that is advised against with CGI?

>>
About using the shell() in place of ODBC or others middleware to bind the MC/RR demon to the SQL server :
just lost more faster, 
<<
This really does go against the prevailing wisdom.  

>>
add to the MC/RR demon many special procedure to replace the ones that don't
work as easy and fast in the other parts of the server (aka. build-in replacements of the SQL triggers,
stoked procedure and vues).
<<
You mean by this, that triggers, SPs, views, etc all work via command line interaction, but because they are slow you have replaced the functions they perform with MC processing?

>>
1000 clients peer app
<<
Do I take it from this, that each of your servers is running just one of the MC demons, and that this demon is expected to be able to serve 1000 client requests? 

What is the specification of your server in terms of RAM and CPU?  
How large is the database that the clients query?
What is the proportion of reads to writes?

I'm sure you have only fuelled the interest in running server-side faceless Revolution apps :-)

Thanks again,
Bernard.  



From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Sat Jul 12 17:12:00 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Sat Jul 12 17:12:00 2003
Subject: XML integration
Message-ID: <20030712230433.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

Hi Richard,

No it is not Mark that has a bee in his bonnet about XML, it is me :-)

The diff program I am using sees Rev stacks as binary files.  All it can tell me is that two binary files are indeed different; it can't show me where they differ.

This is one reason why I would like to be able to convert stacks into text.  

I'm also very interested in being able to convert XML back into stacks.  It would effectively mean that one could externalize all the content of a stack.  Say one decided to change the language in which an app was distributed - all the relevant terms would be there in clear text and could be easily extracted, translated, replaced, and then the XML re-converted back to a stack ready for building.  Heck, maybe even the building of the executable could be automated as part of this process.

It could also open up development to other environments.  Any tool that could edit or emit XML could also be a source for a Rev application.

That Geoff has done the foundation of this for Rev 1.1.1 shows it is doable.  I am surprised that Runrev didn't take this up and run with it.

Or am I way off beam in seeing the potential in this?

Regards,
Bernard  



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 12 17:54:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 12 17:54:00 2003
Subject: XML integration [was]Re: Can Rev be used as server database?
In-Reply-To: <BB35B991.308E9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B31FE3AD-B4BA-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 02:11  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Couldn't you diff the binaries?

Diff-ing binaries doesn't give any useful information, in any tool that 
I'm aware of.

(On OS X)
# diff FacCalc00001.rev FacCalc00002.rev
Binary files FacCalc00001.rev and FacCalc00002.rev differ

> Am I the only one with an interest in this sort of stack-XML usage, or 
> is
> that where you were headed with the human-readability above?

Give the people XML and they will find a use for it! :-)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 12 17:56:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 12 17:56:01 2003
Subject: Style question: returning error values from functions
In-Reply-To: <20030712212152.55835.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F04A1C26-B4BA-11D7-841A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 03:21 PM, erik hansen wrote:

> --- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
>>> I readily use throw in scripts for my own
>> use. Are people comfortable with throw?
>
> what is "throw"?
> it sounds exciting.

I think in Revolution it is something like this:

A throw allows you to create an error much like sqrt(-1) does.  You can  
use it in custom command handlers and in custom functions.

Example:

function areaOfRectangle w, h
   if (w<=0) or (h<=0) then throw "Bad Rectangle Dimensions"
   return w*h
end areaOfRectangle

This example applies directly to the original question.

(I don't know of anything in Revolution that requires that throws be  
used only for errors, but that is normally the case.)

What makes 'throw' exciting is the use of 'try', or try-catch as it is  
sometimes called.  Both errors reported with 'throw' in your scripts  
and errors reported with a built-in throw in built-in commands and  
scripts can be contained with 'try'.

If there is an error and it is not caught with a try catch (or, if so,  
it is re-thrown) then it is handled by a custom handler or by the  
system.

You can use 'try' like this:

try
    put fastExperimentalComputation(x,y,z) into w
catch errVal
    put triedAndTrueComputation(x,y,z) into w
end try

If there is an error anywhere in fastExperimentalComputation() and it  
is not caught at an intermediate level, then its execution is stopped  
and execution continues in the catch clause.  If there is no error, the  
catch clause is not executed.  The error can be many functions and  
handlers down in calls.  (A 'try' might not do any good for a bug in  
the engine.)

The optional 'finally' clause is executed however control gets out of  
the try.  Use it like this:

local veryVeryLargeTempArray
try
   build veryVeryLargeTempArray
   doSomethingWith veryVeryLargeTempArray
catch errVal
   throw errVal
finally
   put empty into veryVeryLargeTempArray
end try

Or like this:

try
   controlMotor(a,b,x,y,t)
catch errVal
   if errVal is not "motor control error" then throw errVal
   put true into motorError
finally
    pullThePlug
end try

This will shut down the motor under all error conditions as well as all  
normal conditions.  I'm not sure, but I expect it will even if--in some  
fit of idiocy--you put an 'exit to top' command in one of the  
controlMotor routines.

You can use 'try' as one of your methods to make your applications  
robust.  Even if it trips, your app can land on its feet and casually  
go on.

Look at the TD entries for try and throw.  There are also a couple  
simple examples.

Dar
************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Jul 12 18:06:00 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat Jul 12 18:06:00 2003
Subject: About MC/RR applications servers
In-Reply-To: <20030712224658.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
References: <20030712224658.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
Message-ID: <1058050607.1758.449.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 23:46, revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com wrote:
> Thanks Pierre for stepping in.  I had indeed misremembered what I had read a few months ago.
> 
> This makes very interesting reading and is a great overview of what you have done.
> 
> Let me see if I understand your process:
> 
> >>
> 2.- The Apache demon (configured to accept up to 150 requests peer second) send the request to a 
> .php sockets listener, witch open a socket on a root protected port to the MC/RR demon app running
> in the backg
> <<
> Do I take it from this that Apache thinks it is talking to a PHP engine?  That your MC app is answering as though it is going to process .PHP files?
> 

Apache lets PHP do what he has to do and the .PHP sockets listener
script just open a tcp/ip socket on port xxx without care about the app
(MC/REV in our case) witch will respond to the socket embedded request.
The .PHP sockets listener will just block until he get a contents reply
to send back to the Apache demon.

> >>
> If the demand contains an SQL request, the MC/RR demon open a connection to the psql command-line client of 
> the Postmaster demon of PostgreSQL trough a metatalk/transcript shell() request, waits for the response,
> makes if needed calculations on the SQL datas reply and, send it back to the opened .PHP socket
> <<
> If I understand so far, the MC demon app then processes the request, shelling out to the OS and invoking the command-line interface to the PostgreSQL SQL interpreter.
> 

Yes

> If I have understood it, then it is quite surprising that it should be so fast.  Surely the invokation of the shell() to connect to PostgreSQL is precisely the kind of process forking that is advised against with CGI?
> 

Just do tests and you will see as me that this works perfectly, faster
for example, than in using ASP's or PHP commands, because the linux bash
optimisations, because the psql perfect design to work in command-line
pipe mode.

> >>
> About using the shell() in place of ODBC or others middleware to bind the MC/RR demon to the SQL server :
> just lots more faster, 
> <<
> This really does go against the prevailing wisdom.  
> 

Yes, probably because this way is not as expensive as it could be in
using, instead, best knowed commercial middlewares ;-)

> >>
> add to the MC/RR demon many special procedure to replace the ones that don't
> work as easy and fast in the other parts of the server (aka. build-in replacements of the SQL triggers,
> stoked procedure and vues).
> <<
> You mean by this, that triggers, SPs, views, etc all work via command line interaction, but because they are slow you have replaced the functions they perform with MC processing?
> 

I just remplace all of them by metatalk/transcript calculations on very
simple SQL requests replies (all my tables have a dual column index key
- chars+unique integer - and internal sequences are controlling the
unicity of the records), available inside the MC/RR process as global
vars.

> >>
> 1000 clients peer app
> <<
> Do I take it from this, that each of your servers is running just one of the MC demons, and that this demon is expected to be able to serve 1000 client requests? 
> 
No and yes : Some servers are running up to five different MC/RR demons,
each one listening for sockets requests on a different port. Two of my
MC/RR demons are serving an ERP app to 1000 clients but those are never
connected in writing mode at the same second (in practice, non more than
50 connections peer sec, aka 1/3 of what Apache is accepting before
queuing the more requests he could receive). The others MC/RR demons are
no serving more than 250 clients. The two first apps are each hosted on
a different Suse 8 Pro x86 - Athlon 800 1 Go Ram - server. All the other
apps are hosted on 3 st box, again Suse 8 Pro x86 - Athlon 800 1 Go Ram.
I'm in discussion about the possibility to switch some apps on an
XServe, but, for yet, because Jaguar is lots slower than Linux is, i
prefer "wait and see" until having testing Panther ;-)

> What is the specification of your server in terms of RAM and CPU?  
> How large is the database that the clients query?
> What is the proportion of reads to writes?

75% of writes on databases going from some megs (events statistics) up
to 250 Megs of datas, with, as an average, no more than 10 Megs peer
table (administrative forms).
> 
> I'm sure you have only fuelled the interest in running server-side faceless Revolution apps :-)
> 
> Thanks again,
> Bernard.  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 12 18:26:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 12 18:26:00 2003
Subject: About MC/RR applications servers
In-Reply-To: <1058050607.1758.449.camel@www.kmax.net>
Message-ID: <3CB882CD-B4BF-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 04:56  PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
> Just do tests and you will see as me that this works perfectly, faster
> for example, than in using ASP's or PHP commands, because the linux 
> bash
> optimisations, because the psql perfect design to work in command-line
> pipe mode

This doesn't make any sense to me. I would like to see the shell 
command you are using.

You're saying what you are doing is faster than PHP direct to 
PostgreSQL? PHP direct to PosgreSQL can have a persistent connection 
already open, and PHP (as apache module) is running already in memory?!

Your way: have to open a socket from PHP, launch the shell, then launch 
the psql command line program, which THEN finally connects to the 
database.

It absolutely impossible that your way could be faster.

Again, why are you even using Revolution instead of just going from PHP 
to PostgreSQL? Call me confused,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Sat Jul 12 18:34:00 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Sat Jul 12 18:34:00 2003
Subject: About MC/RR applications servers
Message-ID: <20030713002642.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

Thanks Pierre

>>
Just do tests and you will see as me that this works perfectly, faster
for example, than in using ASP's or PHP commands, because the linux bash
optimisations, because the psql perfect design to work in command-line
pipe mode.
<<
Well, this is rather flabberghasting...
I suppose it does fit in with the unix philosophy.  I am prepared to believe you, and when I get the time I will try to do some comparisons for myself.

>>
I just remplace all of them by metatalk/transcript calculations on very
simple SQL requests replies
<<
With regard to SPs, triggers, etc.. I still don't understand why you do not use them.  Is it because they do not work, because they are slow, or because you just prefer to do it in Transcript?

>>
75% of writes on databases going from some megs (events statistics) up
to 250 Megs of datas, with, as an average, no more than 10 Megs peer
table
<<
And it is basically a write-intensive application?  
Do I understand correctly that each write can be several megabytes?
And that the database size is around 250mb?

>>
Suse 8 Pro x86 - Athlon 800 1 Go Ram - server. All the other
apps are hosted on 3 st box, again Suse 8 Pro x86 - Athlon 800 1 Go Ram.
<<
Each server has 1gb of RAM?  Do you find you need that much?
I suppose if your queries are write-intensive this extra RAM is not there to boost PostgreSQL's cache?

I'm in agreement about OS X being slow compared to Linux.  Imagine running Linux on Panther :-)

Bernard  



From jameslewes at comcast.net  Sat Jul 12 18:44:00 2003
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (James Lewes)
Date: Sat Jul 12 18:44:00 2003
Subject: Hebrew Arabic texts
In-Reply-To: <p04320400bb353b386a89@[193.63.73.136]>
Message-ID: <9F15A624-B4C1-11D7-94AF-000502F78A80@comcast.net>

If you are inputting the text, why not make it in photoshop and import 
it as image files.

James

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 12:20  AM, muaadh salih wrote:

> I have, partially,  solved the Unicode text, We are now  working on 
> Chunk and bits
> There is an urgent problem : Text Insertion.
>
> Both Languages have
>  R to L text alignment which is fine but the text insertion make the 
> line back to front
> examples:
>
> Real Arabic-Hebrew  should read :
> Word4  Word3  word 2 Word1
> But in revolution it is :
> Word1 word2 word3 word 4
> We tried every thing ( including  system text Align) but it does not 
> work
>
>
> Any way to deal with this problem ?
> Help !
> -- 
>
> All the best
>
> ---------------
> M.  Salih
> N.M.E. Dept.
> SOAS
> University of London
> Thornhaugh Street
> London WCIH OXG
>
> Tel. (UK) 020  7898 4354 Direct
>               020  7898 4320 Dept.
> eMail: ms1 at soas.ac.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sat Jul 12 19:25:00 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Sat Jul 12 19:25:00 2003
Subject: Hebrew Arabic texts
Message-ID: <200307130017.UAA02934@bright.unitz.ca>

it's a cheap work-around, but just put a minus sign in front
of the numeral

to get the first word in your "real arabic-hebrew" example
just do:
  get word -1 of {container}  -- will return "word1"
to get the third word
  get word -3 of {container}  -- will return "word3"

hope that helps ^_^



> > Real Arabic-Hebrew  should read :
> > Word4  Word3  word2 Word1
> > But in revolution it is :
> > Word1 word2 word3 word 4
> > We tried every thing ( including  system text Align) but
> > it does not  work



From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Jul 12 19:50:01 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat Jul 12 19:50:01 2003
Subject: About MC/RR applications servers
In-Reply-To: <3CB882CD-B4BF-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <3CB882CD-B4BF-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <1058056823.1642.585.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 01:19, Alex Rice wrote:
> On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 04:56  PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
> >
> > Just do tests and you will see as me that this works perfectly, faster
> > for example, than in using ASP's or PHP commands, because the linux 
> > bash
> > optimisations, because the psql perfect design to work in command-line
> > pipe mode
> 
> This doesn't make any sense to me. I would like to see the shell 
> command you are using.

Hum... It's, even for you, freely, available on the Metacard archive
list.
> 
> You're saying what you are doing is faster than PHP direct to 
> PostgreSQL? PHP direct to PosgreSQL can have a persistent connection 
> already open, and PHP (as apache module) is running already in memory?!
> 
> Your way: have to open a socket from PHP, launch the shell, then launch 
> the psql command line program, which THEN finally connects to the 
> database.

Did you learn a little (aka lots) about WebSphere Weblogic or WebObjects
before. Have you any idea about how applications servers works...
> 
> It absolutely impossible that your way could be faster.

Perhaps are you too sure of you about how unixes are handeling multiples
processes tasks. Did you ever watch at the processor idle average time
of a linux box ? To the end, you are not alone to think so... even if 
my clients are, probably, not only too rich and stupid persons...
> 
> Again, why are you even using Revolution instead of just going from PHP 
> to PostgreSQL? Call me confused,

Did you ever ask you about the difference it makes to use real
application server instead of just including sql replies in web forms ?
> 
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Jul 12 20:12:00 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat Jul 12 20:12:00 2003
Subject: About MC/RR applications servers
In-Reply-To: <20030713002642.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
References: <20030713002642.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
Message-ID: <1058058162.1758.632.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 01:26, revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com wrote:
> Thanks Pierre
> 
> >>
> Just do tests and you will see as me that this works perfectly, faster
> for example, than in using ASP's or PHP commands, because the linux bash
> optimisations, because the psql perfect design to work in command-line
> pipe mode.
> <<
> Well, this is rather flabberghasting...
> I suppose it does fit in with the unix philosophy.  I am prepared to believe you, and when I get the time I will try to do some comparisons for myself.
> 
> >>
> I just remplace all of them by metatalk/transcript calculations on very
> simple SQL requests replies
> <<
> With regard to SPs, triggers, etc.. I still don't understand why you do not use them.  Is it because they do not work, because they are slow, or because you just prefer to do it in Transcript?

1.- In avoiding to use them, even if they can works, i am able to handle
a best "abstract layer" between the database back-end and the
applications server. This is always very usefull when we don't know, at
the beginning of the discussions with the client, what the application
will look like exactly, to the end. It's why, i will always be more
confortable in using metatalk/transcript handlers instead.

> >>
> 75% of writes on databases going from some megs (events statistics) up
> to 250 Megs of datas, with, as an average, no more than 10 Megs peer
> table
> <<
> And it is basically a write-intensive application?  
> Do I understand correctly that each write can be several megabytes?

No. individual writes POSTS don't never contains more than about 100 to
150 ko each, 

> And that the database size is around 250mb?

250 Mb peer year, yes.
> 
> >>
> Suse 8 Pro x86 - Athlon 800 1 Go Ram - server. All the other
> apps are hosted on 3 st box, again Suse 8 Pro x86 - Athlon 800 1 Go Ram.
> <<
> Each server has 1gb of RAM?  Do you find you need that much?
> I suppose if your queries are write-intensive this extra RAM is not there to boost PostgreSQL's cache?

With 512 Mo, it would be enough but i tuned the servers to 1 Go when
there was doubts about the memory usage of the the earlies issues of the
linux 2.4.x kernel.
> 
> I'm in agreement about OS X being slow compared to Linux.  Imagine running Linux on Panther :-)

As an example, the "sockettimeoutinterval" global needs to be set to
30000 under Jaguar, to have correct "pg_dump" and "restore.sql"
processing. Under Linux, the same global is just set at his default
startup value.
> 
> Bernard  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Sat Jul 12 20:25:00 2003
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Sat Jul 12 20:25:00 2003
Subject: DB examples corrupted? and other questions
Message-ID: <BEC94FE2-B4CF-11D7-90C0-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

Apropos these discussions about databases, I downloaded Tuviah's 
DBExamples to have a look at Valentina but attempting to open either of 
the two examples provided produced the error "unable to open - stack 
corrupted" (more or less).

Are these examples known to be working? I have Rev 2.0.1

Is anyone planning to write a wrapper for SQLite to be used with Rev. 
Clearly, I am not but would be interested in using it.

Of the various DB options for OS X, it appears from a quick scan that:
- mySQL is free, fast and not overly friendly to manage
- PostGRE is free, not as fast but more complete an implementation than 
mySQL
- Valentina is damned expensive for one user on one machine with no 
intention to sell, but very fast (and Tuviah advocates it for 
single-user databases)
- SDB is free, rev-speed and a unique DB language (yes, I know there is 
nothing attractive about SQL anyway)
- ...and of course I could just do it in Rev as my DB size, while not 
very small, does not push limits (<10,000 records, <10MB).

My need is for speed followed by simplicity of use. The design looks 
like three principal tables in the DB and considerable use of live 
searching (e.g. for each keydown) to link data.

Any experiences or commentary welcome.

regards
David



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 12 20:30:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 12 20:30:00 2003
Subject: About MC/RR applications servers
In-Reply-To: <1058056823.1642.585.camel@www.kmax.net>
Message-ID: <94C66C5C-B4D0-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 06:40  PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Did you ever ask you about the difference it makes to use real
> application server instead of just including sql replies in web forms ?

Since you asked, I've been writing web applications since 1995. I know 
relational databases. I know PostgreSQL. I worked for an Internet 
Service Provider for several years. I've deployed web applications on 
Solaris, Linux, FreeBSD and MacOS X. I have a very good understand of 
the design of web application design including the areas of shell 
scripting, CGI, Apache modules, and tcp/ip server processes.

However, I'm not interested in reading the Metacard archive searching 
for your posts.

You clearly have some kind of client-server design out that satisfies 
you and your clients. Good for you.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Jul 12 20:46:00 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat Jul 12 20:46:00 2003
Subject: DB examples corrupted? and other questions
In-Reply-To: <BEC94FE2-B4CF-11D7-90C0-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
References: <BEC94FE2-B4CF-11D7-90C0-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <1058060239.1758.678.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 03:17, David Vaughan wrote:
> Apropos these discussions about databases, I downloaded Tuviah's 
> DBExamples to have a look at Valentina but attempting to open either of 
> the two examples provided produced the error "unable to open - stack 
> corrupted" (more or less).

It's always better to gzip stacks before down/uploading them. Do anyone
know if Tuviah plan to do the same work for PostgreSQL, he did for MySQL
? I would be very interested :-)
> 
> Are these examples known to be working? I have Rev 2.0.1
> 
> Is anyone planning to write a wrapper for SQLite to be used with Rev. 
> Clearly, I am not but would be interested in using it.

Andu (Novag) use extensively SQLite beside MC apps. Ask him directly
about this.
> 
> Of the various DB options for OS X, it appears from a quick scan that:
> - mySQL is free, fast and not overly friendly to manage
> - PostGRE is free, not as fast but more complete an implementation than 
> mySQL
> - Valentina is damned expensive for one user on one machine with no 
> intention to sell, but very fast (and Tuviah advocates it for 
> single-user databases)
> - SDB is free, rev-speed and a unique DB language (yes, I know there is 
> nothing attractive about SQL anyway)
> - ...and of course I could just do it in Rev as my DB size, while not 
> very small, does not push limits (<10,000 records, <10MB).
> 
> My need is for speed followed by simplicity of use. The design looks 
> like three principal tables in the DB and considerable use of live 
> searching (e.g. for each keydown) to link data.
> 
> Any experiences or commentary welcome.
> 
> regards
> David
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Sat Jul 12 21:14:00 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Sat Jul 12 21:14:00 2003
Subject: DB examples corrupted? and other questions
Message-ID: <20030713030615.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

>>
Andu (Novag) use extensively SQLite beside MC apps.
<<

Thanks for that Pierre.  I came across SQLite by accident myself a couple of weeks ago, and didn't think to search the Metacard list to see if anyone had used it.

I know that one friend of mine I introduced to Rev is very happy now that I also pointed her in the direction of SQLite.  If she has any further questions with it, I shall point her in the direction of Andu.

David:
If you are really looking to get involved with a SQL database, don't overlook Firebird.  It has a great pedigree, a good support group at Yahoo groups, is practically maintenance-free and has sooooo many different development tools.  For anyone interested, have a look at http://www.ibphoenix.com

However, if you don't need a SQL database, avoid the additional complexity and stick with stacks :-)

Bernard.
  



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jul 12 21:40:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Jul 12 21:40:01 2003
Subject: DB examples corrupted? and other questions
In-Reply-To: <BEC94FE2-B4CF-11D7-90C0-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <BB3612CA.30938%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

David Vaughan wrote:

> Of the various DB options for OS X, it appears from a quick scan that:
> - mySQL is free, fast and not overly friendly to manage
> - PostGRE is free, not as fast but more complete an implementation than
> mySQL
> - Valentina is damned expensive for one user on one machine with no
> intention to sell, but very fast (and Tuviah advocates it for
> single-user databases)
> - SDB is free, rev-speed and a unique DB language (yes, I know there is
> nothing attractive about SQL anyway)
> - ...and of course I could just do it in Rev as my DB size, while not
> very small, does not push limits (<10,000 records, <10MB).

The 10,000-record "limit" is by no means absolute, and can be greatly
exceeded depending on how your data is stored.

In testing a slender db thang I'm making for a client, I've been able to run
queries with five evaluation criteria against 20,000 records in a hair over
4 secs on a G4/500 (and only 1.1 secs on a cheapo $500 Celeron-based HP
running XP -- don't get me started about the platform wars <g>).

The trick is to put tables in simple tab-delimited text in a variable
rather than in fields on cards.  The latter is where bulk and performance
issues come from:  the engine needs to make a text record structure for each
field on every card along with a card record structure in addition to the
data itself.  Plus, accessing data in a field is almost always much slower
than grabbing an item from a line in a block of text.

The downside to this simple text-based approach is that you have to write
your own routines for anything you need.

The upside is that you can use simple chunk expressions so it's easy to do.

If the overall size of the data is something that can be managed in RAM,
RAM-based solutions are hard to beat for speed over paged disk reads.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 12 22:07:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 12 22:07:00 2003
Subject: best usage of library stacks
Message-ID: <1CF1A67F-B4DE-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

I guess all new Rev users reach this point- where you try to figure out 
how to reuse your code in library stacks.

I see there is "Move substack to file...". Is there a way to "Save 
substack to file" and "Import substack from file"?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Sat Jul 12 22:46:01 2003
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Sat Jul 12 22:46:01 2003
Subject: DB examples corrupted? and other questions
In-Reply-To: <200307130141.VAA01988@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7FECD2F7-B4E3-11D7-90C0-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Sunday, Jul 13, 2003, at 11:41 Australia/Sydney, Richard Gaskin 
<ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>
> David Vaughan wrote:
snip
>> - ...and of course I could just do it in Rev as my DB size, while not
>> very small, does not push limits (<10,000 records, <10MB).
>
> The 10,000-record "limit" is by no means absolute, and can be greatly
> exceeded depending on how your data is stored.

Richard

Sorry, I expressed myself poorly. I meant that I expected my project to 
have fewer than 10K records etc, not that I envisaged some practical 
limit at that size. Your following comments on the options are very 
interesting.
>
> The trick is to put tables in simple tab-delimited text in a variable
> rather than in fields on cards.  The latter is where bulk and 
> performance
> issues come from:  the engine needs to make a text record structure 
> for each
> field on every card along with a card record structure in addition to 
> the
> data itself.  Plus, accessing data in a field is almost always much 
> slower
> than grabbing an item from a line in a block of text.
>
> The downside to this simple text-based approach is that you have to 
> write
> your own routines for anything you need.
>
> The upside is that you can use simple chunk expressions so it's easy 
> to do.
>
> If the overall size of the data is something that can be managed in 
> RAM,
> RAM-based solutions are hard to beat for speed over paged disk reads.

I have the RAM so give or take some data integrity issues I will think 
further about that approach. It might wind up coming to a speed test, 
or building a version in which I isolate data selection and update so 
the back end is substitutable

regards
David
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation



From curry at pair.com  Sat Jul 12 22:48:01 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Sat Jul 12 22:48:01 2003
Subject: Image conversion still broken
In-Reply-To: <200307121515.LAA15074@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307121515.LAA15074@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb3683d10a7c@[68.86.46.40]>

Dear Ken,

If you can get the PICT into your stack, I think you can then set the 
paintcompression to whatever format you want, click in the image with 
paint select tool, and there you go. (I think.) Paintcompression is 
global, not for a particular images. Set it and then all images you 
edit will be set to that format.

Curry


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 13 00:33:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 13 00:33:00 2003
Subject: Style question: returning error values from functions
In-Reply-To: <F04A1C26-B4BA-11D7-841A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <70EAB690-B4F2-11D7-841A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 04:48 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> The optional 'finally' clause is executed however control gets out of 
> the try.  Use it like this:
>
> local veryVeryLargeTempArray
> try
>   build veryVeryLargeTempArray
>   doSomethingWith veryVeryLargeTempArray
> catch errVal
>   throw errVal
> finally
>   put empty into veryVeryLargeTempArray
> end try

This is a crummy example unless local is changed to global or some 
other cleanup is needed because the array is emptied.

Sigh.

Dar



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Jul 13 02:00:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun Jul 13 02:00:00 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <200307122157.RAA28638@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3650BC.1C76%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 7/12/03 5:57 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> From: Cubist at aol.com
> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:10:47 EDT
> Subject: Re: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
> 
>> In Photoshop, create a new file of the dimensions you want with a single
>> empty layer.  If the file has a background layer, delete it.  You should now
>> see the checkerboard pattern in the document window.  Choose "Save for
>> Web..." from the File menu as GIF with transparency enabled.
----------
This seems to work OK. I didn't have a chance to try it until just now.
----------
> This will work perfectly well. I used to do it myself, until I discovered
> another option which will also work *and* saves a bit of effort on the user's
> part...
> First: Make sure the background is the active layer. If the background is
> the *only* layer, you're covered.
> Second: Go to the LAYER menu, select the NEW submenu, select LAYER FROM
> BACKGROUND from the LAYER:NEW submenu.
----------
Hmmm. Nice trick, but I just have PS 5.0 LE on this machine and that option
doesn't seem to exist, i.e., there is no LAYER FROM BACKGROUND. No big deal,
but thanks anyway. 

I hate to wimp out, but I'll have to get back to the experiments I was doing
tomorrow. I mowed and trimmed a 3 acre resort today, 9 hours nonstop. My
body is just a pile of ashes. I'm gonna drink a beer and hug my pillow for
another 9 hours.

Later,
Ken N.




From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Sun Jul 13 02:45:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sun Jul 13 02:45:01 2003
Subject: best usage of library stacks
In-Reply-To: <1CF1A67F-B4DE-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHKEPMDEAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>
> I guess all new Rev users reach this point- where you try to figure out
> how to reuse your code in library stacks.
>
> I see there is "Move substack to file...". Is there a way to "Save
> substack to file" and "Import substack from file"?
>
Checkout the mainstack property of the substack. If you set the mainstack of
a substack to itself then save it saves to a separate file. If you set the
mainstack of a mainstack to another mainstack it becomes a substack.

Cheers

Monte



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Sun Jul 13 03:16:00 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sun Jul 13 03:16:00 2003
Subject: DB examples corrupted? and other questions
In-Reply-To: <BB3612CA.30938%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEPNDEAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> The 10,000-record "limit" is by no means absolute, and can be greatly
> exceeded depending on how your data is stored.
>

> The trick is to put tables in simple tab-delimited text in a variable
> rather than in fields on cards.  The latter is where bulk and performance
> issues come from:  the engine needs to make a text record
> structure for each
> field on every card along with a card record structure in addition to the
> data itself.  Plus, accessing data in a field is almost always much slower
> than grabbing an item from a line in a block of text.

Hey Richard

I'm wondering if you have tested multi-dimensional arrays (stored as
customproperty sets)? I think the direct access nature would kill
tab-delimited text. What abut using something like: primaryKey,columnName as
the array key? I think it could be very fast and handle much more data. In
addition there is no risk from the delimiters.

The only issue I can see is the keys would return a very long list but this
could be parsed quickly using filter etc.

Test setup script:

on mouseUp
  repeat with x=1 to 10000
    repeat with y=1 to 50
      put random(100) & tab after tData
    end repeat
    put cr into char -1 of tData
  end repeat
  set the cTest of this stack to tData
  repeat with x=1 to 10000
    repeat with y=1 to 50
      put random(100) into tDataA[x,y]
    end repeat
  end repeat
  set the customProperties["cTest"] of this stack to tDataA
end mouseUp

Test script:

on mouseUp
  put the long seconds into tSeconds
  set the itemDel to tab
  put the cTest of this stack into tTest
  repeat with x=0 to 10000 step 100
    put item 25 of line x of tTest into tData
  end repeat
  put the long seconds - tSeconds into tTest1
  put the long seconds into tSeconds
  repeat with x=0 to 10000 step 100
  put the cTest[x,25] of this stack into tData
  end repeat
  put the long seconds - tSeconds into tTest2
  put tTest1,tTest2
end mouseUp

Result 0.219,0.002

Food for thought ;-)

Regards

Monte



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sun Jul 13 06:19:00 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Sun Jul 13 06:19:00 2003
Subject: Hebrew Arabic texts
In-Reply-To: <9F15A624-B4C1-11D7-94AF-000502F78A80@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <99213054-B522-11D7-A8D1-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

Hi James,

On Sunday, Jul 13, 2003, at 01:36 Europe/Vienna, James Lewes wrote:

>> Both Languages have
>>  R to L text alignment which is fine but the text insertion make the 
>> line back to front
>> examples:
>>
>> Real Arabic-Hebrew  should read :
>> Word4  Word3  word 2 Word1
>> But in revolution it is :
>> Word1 word2 word3 word 4
>> We tried every thing ( including  system text Align) but it does not 
>> work
>>
>>
>> Any way to deal with this problem ?
>> Help !
>> -- 

I have not tested that...
If you are on a Mac (OSX) try Mellel. Its a great word processor at all 
and the only Wordprocessor I know, which can do hebrew (because they 
are from Israel) and also arabic since the last update. You can change 
with a btn the direction from left to right to right to left. Can be 
mixed in a document. You could try to export the left to right arabic 
text as rtf and import it in to rev.
Or select/copy the text to the clipboard and paste it in to a text 
field. That works fine for me with "regular" (german, english) text. If 
it does not work with arabic font, send the authors an note, they are 
very responsiv...

hope that helps

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jul 13 10:56:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun Jul 13 10:56:00 2003
Subject: DB examples corrupted? and other questions
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEPNDEAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <BB36CD29.3096A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Monte Goulding wrote:

> I'm wondering if you have tested multi-dimensional arrays (stored as
> customproperty sets)? I think the direct access nature would kill
> tab-delimited text. What abut using something like: primaryKey,columnName as
> the array key? I think it could be very fast and handle much more data. In
> addition there is no risk from the delimiters.

True on all fronts. Random access of specific "records" (elements in an
array and lines in text) is much faster with arrays than with one block of
text.

However, in my case I settled on chunks because in nearly every usage I'm
displaying only a subset of columns, and usually more than one record, so I
need to query the whole data set each time.  In my benchmarks walking
through all the elements of an array is slower than walking through a text
block.

I don't have those benchmarks handy, but if I recall "repeat for each
element" took nearly twice as long as "repeat for each line".

Your code:
  
> on mouseUp
>   put the long seconds into tSeconds
>   set the itemDel to tab
>   put the cTest of this stack into tTest
>   repeat with x=0 to 10000 step 100
>     put item 25 of line x of tTest into tData
>   end repeat
>   put the long seconds - tSeconds into tTest1
>   put the long seconds into tSeconds
>   repeat with x=0 to 10000 step 100
>     put the cTest[x,25] of this stack into tData
>   end repeat
>   put the long seconds - tSeconds into tTest2
>   put tTest1,tTest2
> end mouseUp
> 
> Result 0.219,0.002

...uses the "repeat with" form, which is much slower than "repeat for each"
and doesn't scale well; it takes increasingly longer as you work your way
down through the lines, as it needs to count the number of lines each time
through the loop.  The "repeat for each line" form runs at a nearly constant
rate of lines per millisecond regardless of the size of the data set.

The "repeat for each" form parses and keeps its place as it goes, making it
many times faster for large text blocks.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From mail at richard-hillen.de  Sun Jul 13 15:16:00 2003
From: mail at richard-hillen.de (R. Hillen)
Date: Sun Jul 13 15:16:00 2003
Subject: Scrolling Image-window
In-Reply-To: <200307101203.IAA31930@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D3C46BD6-B56D-11D7-9E7A-000393854988@richard-hillen.de>

Hello List,

first I would like to thank all people, who helped me to get snapshots 
of my movies, scale them and put them into a database-stack.

Now here is another problem:

I have some very large Images (4000x4000 pix) (maps of noise in 
Germany), which I want to show without scaling in a scrolling window 
with size 200 x 200 pix or so.
How to add scrollbars to an Imageobject?
What is the solution?

Thanx in advance

Richard.



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Jul 13 15:44:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun Jul 13 15:44:00 2003
Subject: Scrolling Image-window
In-Reply-To: <D3C46BD6-B56D-11D7-9E7A-000393854988@richard-hillen.de>
Message-ID: <BCBF9368-B571-11D7-911F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Richard,

> Hello List,
>
> first I would like to thank all people, who helped me to get snapshots 
> of my
> movies, scale them and put them into a database-stack.
>
> Now here is another problem:
>
> I have some very large Images (4000x4000 pix) (maps of noise in 
> Germany),

Krach in Deutschland? :-D

> which I want to show without scaling in a scrolling window with size 
> 200 x 200 pix or so.
> How to add scrollbars to an Imageobject?

That is not possible unfortunately, but you can group that single 
image, adjust the groups size
to 200*200, set the lockloc of that group to true and add scrollbars to 
the group...

Et voila, a scrollable image :-)

> Thanx in advance
>
> Richard.

Hope that helps...


Regards (und Gr??e :-)

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sun Jul 13 15:46:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Jul 13 15:46:00 2003
Subject: Scrolling Image-window
In-Reply-To: <D3C46BD6-B56D-11D7-9E7A-000393854988@richard-hillen.de>
Message-ID: <0B02B44D-B572-11D7-9954-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 02:08  PM, R. Hillen wrote:

> I have some very large Images (4000x4000 pix) (maps of noise in 
> Germany), which I want to show without scaling in a scrolling window 
> with size 200 x 200 pix or so.
> How to add scrollbars to an Imageobject?
> What is the solution?

Group the image, resize the group, then turn on scrollbars for the 
group using it's property inspector.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Jul 13 16:16:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun Jul 13 16:16:00 2003
Subject: Image conversion still broken
In-Reply-To: <200307131602.MAA18063@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB371988.1C86%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Curry,

> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:38:56 -0500
> From: curry <curry at pair.com>
> Subject: Re: Image conversion still broken
>
> If you can get the PICT into your stack, I think you can then set the
> paintcompression to whatever format you want, click in the image with
> paint select tool, and there you go. (I think.) Paintcompression is
> global, not for a particular images. Set it and then all images you
> edit will be set to that format.
----------
That sounds plausible, but it's not my concern. The concern is that, as a
Bugzilla reply, Tuviah says it works for him, so my bug report got dissed.

If that's so, then why doesn't it work for me?

Once a gain, I import a PICT image and I immediately get a dialog asking if
I want to convert it to PNG file. I click the convert default button and
nothing happens. Very straightforward. It just flat does not work.

Why? I'm still looking for an answer.


Thanks,
Ken N.



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 13 16:53:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 13 16:53:00 2003
Subject: Hebrew Arabic texts
In-Reply-To: <p04320400bb353b386a89@[193.63.73.136]>
Message-ID: <5237BFFA-B57B-11D7-808B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 10:20 PM, muaadh salih wrote:

> I have, partially,  solved the Unicode text,

I just pasted some text using the Yehudit font into a field and it 
looks good.  It is not Unicode, I don't think.

> We are now  working on Chunk and bits
> There is an urgent problem : Text Insertion.
>
> Both Languages have
>  R to L text alignment which is fine but the text insertion make the 
> line back to front
> examples:
>
> Real Arabic-Hebrew  should read :
> Word4  Word3  word 2 Word1
> But in revolution it is :
> Word1 word2 word3 word 4
> We tried every thing ( including  system text Align) but it does not 
> work
>
>
> Any way to deal with this problem ?
> Help !

You might need to create a field customized by its script.

You might need commands for putting text into the field and taking text 
out.  You might need general word and char commands.  Use those custom 
commands instead of the usual chunking.

You might need to write commands that capture keys and mouse 
operations.  It should be straightforward to do right to left typing.  
What may take more work is multiline selection.  If you drag the mouse 
from the middle of one line to the middle of the next, the usual 
selection is wrong.

Once you get this field working, use copies of it everywhere you need R 
to L.

I'm just looking at what it would take to make it work using my Yehudit 
font.  Your Unicode text may have other solutions and problems.

Dar Scott



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Jul 13 17:16:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun Jul 13 17:16:00 2003
Subject: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
In-Reply-To: <200307131602.MAA18063@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3727BB.1C88%pixelbird@interisland.net>

> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:56:44 -0400
> Subject: Re: Can I draw a line (or better any polygon) directly on screen?
> From: Ken Norris <pixelbird at interisland.net>

>>> Choose "Save for Web..." from the File menu as GIF with transparency
>>> enabled.
> ----------
> This seems to work OK. I didn't have a chance to try it until just now.
----------
Oh..except PS 5.0 LE doesn't have "Save for Web" either. What difference?

Ken N.



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 13 17:54:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sun Jul 13 17:54:00 2003
Subject: Style question: returning error values from functions
In-Reply-To: <F04A1C26-B4BA-11D7-841A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20030713224702.80494.qmail@web20007.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:> 
> What makes 'throw' exciting is the use of
> 'try', or try-catch as it is  
> sometimes called

thanks, i'm excited!

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Jul 13 18:15:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun Jul 13 18:15:00 2003
Subject: Image conversion still broken
In-Reply-To: <BB371988.1C86%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BB371988.1C86%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <3F11E63C.1000706@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/13/03 1:13 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Once a gain, I import a PICT image and I immediately get a dialog asking if
> I want to convert it to PNG file. I click the convert default button and
> nothing happens. Very straightforward. It just flat does not work.

Try this and tell us what happens:

1. Import a PICT image.
2. When you get the dialog, click the Convert button.
3. In the message box, type:

    put the paintCompression of last image

What does the message box say? When I try it, it says "png".

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Sun Jul 13 19:45:00 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sun Jul 13 19:45:00 2003
Subject: DB examples corrupted? and other questions
In-Reply-To: <BB36CD29.3096A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEABDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> Monte Goulding wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering if you have tested multi-dimensional arrays (stored as
> > customproperty sets)? I think the direct access nature would kill
> > tab-delimited text. What abut using something like:
> primaryKey,columnName as
> > the array key? I think it could be very fast and handle much
> more data. In
> > addition there is no risk from the delimiters.
>
> True on all fronts. Random access of specific "records" (elements in an
> array and lines in text) is much faster with arrays than with one block of
> text.
>
> However, in my case I settled on chunks because in nearly every usage I'm
> displaying only a subset of columns, and usually more than one
> record, so I
> need to query the whole data set each time.  In my benchmarks walking
> through all the elements of an array is slower than walking through a text
> block.
>
> I don't have those benchmarks handy, but if I recall "repeat for each
> element" took nearly twice as long as "repeat for each line".

That's where filter and sort on array keys would come in handy.
>
> Your code:
>
> > on mouseUp
> >   put the long seconds into tSeconds
> >   set the itemDel to tab
> >   put the cTest of this stack into tTest
> >   repeat with x=0 to 10000 step 100
> >     put item 25 of line x of tTest into tData
> >   end repeat
> >   put the long seconds - tSeconds into tTest1
> >   put the long seconds into tSeconds
> >   repeat with x=0 to 10000 step 100
> >     put the cTest[x,25] of this stack into tData
> >   end repeat
> >   put the long seconds - tSeconds into tTest2
> >   put tTest1,tTest2
> > end mouseUp
> >
> > Result 0.219,0.002
>
> ...uses the "repeat with" form, which is much slower than "repeat
> for each"
> and doesn't scale well; it takes increasingly longer as you work your way
> down through the lines, as it needs to count the number of lines each time
> through the loop.  The "repeat for each line" form runs at a
> nearly constant
> rate of lines per millisecond regardless of the size of the data set.
>
> The "repeat for each" form parses and keeps its place as it goes,
> making it
> many times faster for large text blocks.
>
I knew someone would pick me up on that.

Cheers

Monte



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sun Jul 13 20:17:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Jul 13 20:17:00 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
Message-ID: <D7F2B46B-B597-11D7-950B-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

on testByReference @pVal1, pVal2
   answer pVal1
   answer pVal2
end testByReference

Is this valid transcript? I get no errors, but pVal2 seems to get 
thrown out.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 13 20:34:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 13 20:34:00 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
In-Reply-To: <D7F2B46B-B597-11D7-950B-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <50F95AAC-B59A-11D7-9BFE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 07:09 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> on testByReference @pVal1, pVal2
>   answer pVal1
>   answer pVal2
> end testByReference
>
> Is this valid transcript? I get no errors, but pVal2 seems to get  
> thrown out.

Looks good to me.

This works:

on mouseUp
   put 5 into x
   testIt x, 6
end mouseUp

on testIt @a, b
   put a && b
end testIt

I remember something about answer-answer not working as expected on  
some platforms.  Try a wait in between.

Dar
************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sun Jul 13 21:07:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Jul 13 21:07:01 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
In-Reply-To: <50F95AAC-B59A-11D7-9BFE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <E2771C45-B59E-11D7-B490-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 07:27  PM, Dar Scott wrote:
> Looks good to me.
>
> This works:
>
> on mouseUp
>   put 5 into x
>   testIt x, 6
> end mouseUp
>
> on testIt @a, b
>   put a && b
> end testIt

OK that works... This is actually what I'm seeing though: put the 
testit handler into a card script. Then execute this in the multiline 
message box:

put 5 into x
testIt x, 6

Is your output then just "5"?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 13 21:29:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 13 21:29:00 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
In-Reply-To: <E2771C45-B59E-11D7-B490-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <F3B05A66-B5A1-11D7-9BFE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 08:00 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> OK that works... This is actually what I'm seeing though: put the  
> testit handler into a card script. Then execute this in the multiline  
> message box:
>
> put 5 into x
> testIt x, 6
>
> Is your output then just "5"?

Message execution error:
Error description: Handler: can't find handler

Dar

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sun Jul 13 21:49:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Jul 13 21:49:00 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
In-Reply-To: <F3B05A66-B5A1-11D7-9BFE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <B2F67DE0-B5A4-11D7-B490-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 08:22  PM, Dar Scott wrote:
> Message execution error:
> Error description: Handler: can't find handler

Is the card script on the message path? Try going to that card, then 
doing the message box.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Jul 13 22:05:00 2003
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:05:00 2003
Subject: About Student/Teacher license...
Message-ID: <CB7EF7B0-B5A7-11D7-88F7-00039387AE90@mac.com>

Can someone tell me more about this license, I am planning to buy it 
but I need to know if it can access databases, It's for educational use 
only, I need to access a MySQL database...

Cheers
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2003 ? BRAZIL
http://www.soapdog.org



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 13 22:17:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:17:00 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
In-Reply-To: <B2F67DE0-B5A4-11D7-B490-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <B077EB50-B5A8-11D7-9BFE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 08:41 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 08:22  PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>> Message execution error:
>> Error description: Handler: can't find handler
>
> Is the card script on the message path? Try going to that card, then 
> doing the message box.
>
It is in the card script.  The Apply button is clicked.  I'm on that 
card.  The name of the stack is in the button bar of the message box 
window.

??

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 13 22:26:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:26:00 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
In-Reply-To: <B077EB50-B5A8-11D7-9BFE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <D5CC3114-B5A9-11D7-9BFE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 09:10 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>> On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 08:22  PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>>> Message execution error:
>>> Error description: Handler: can't find handler
>>
>> Is the card script on the message path? Try going to that card, then 
>> doing the message box.
>>
> It is in the card script.  The Apply button is clicked.  I'm on that 
> card.  The name of the stack is in the button bar of the

Blind spot.

I had put

put 5 into x
testIt 5, 6

instead of

put 5 into x
test it x, 6

Hmmm.

I get just 5.

Dar



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 13 22:55:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:55:00 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
In-Reply-To: <E2771C45-B59E-11D7-B490-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <005DE5C0-B5AE-11D7-9BFE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 08:00 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> OK that works... This is actually what I'm seeing though: put the  
> testit handler into a card script.

I changed my card handler to this:

on testIt @a, b
   put paramCount() && a && b
end testIt

I call it in my button and get this:
2 5 6

I call it from the multiline and get this
1 5

It is not that b is empty, it ain't even there.

Beats me as to why.  I guess there are limits to testing handlers with  
reference variables.

Dar
************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Jul 13 23:40:00 2003
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun Jul 13 23:40:00 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
In-Reply-To: <005DE5C0-B5AE-11D7-9BFE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <005DE5C0-B5AE-11D7-9BFE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <3742737102.20030713213233@ahsoftware.net>

Dar-

Sunday, July 13, 2003, 8:48:16 PM, you wrote:

DS> It is not that b is empty, it ain't even there.

Actually, there's a space there as a place holder.

Try

on testIt @a, b
   put paramCount() && a && b && "hello"
end testIt

and you'll see "hello" following the values. Now try

on testIt @a, b, c
   put paramCount() && a && b && c && "hello"
end testIt

and you'll find that an extra space is inserted.

It seems that after the first instance of a byReference argument all
other arguments are also taken to be by reference. I guess the space
is the result of trying to take the reference of 6.

Good one, Alex... this sounds buggable to me.

-Mark Wieder




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Jul 13 23:46:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun Jul 13 23:46:00 2003
Subject: Image conversion still broken
In-Reply-To: <200307140256.WAA29899@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB378335.1CA4%pixelbird@interisland.net>

> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:07:40 -0500
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Organization: HyperActive Software
> Subject: Re: Image conversion still broken

> put the paintCompression of last image
> 
> What does the message box say? When I try it, it says "png".
----------
Yep, it says "png".

Very nice. So, where is the image?

Ken N.



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 13 23:55:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 13 23:55:00 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
In-Reply-To: <3742737102.20030713213233@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <5F5D5660-B5B6-11D7-9BFE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 10:32 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> It seems that after the first instance of a byReference argument all
> other arguments are also taken to be by reference. I guess the space
> is the result of trying to take the reference of 6.

Good tests.  It is normal that parameters not used by the caller are  
empty.  The extra space is from the &&.  The script works as expected  
from another script, the problem is testing in the message box.

>
> Good one, Alex... this sounds buggable to me.

Yes.  Alex has already reported another problem in debugging tools and  
by-reference.  I guess they are not used as often and have fallen into  
the crack.

Dar Scott


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Mon Jul 14 00:03:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Jul 14 00:03:00 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
In-Reply-To: <3742737102.20030713213233@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <76D5408C-B5B7-11D7-B490-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 10:32  PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

>
> It seems that after the first instance of a byReference argument all
> other arguments are also taken to be by reference. I guess the space
> is the result of trying to take the reference of 6.

Mark, are you running those tests from the message box, or from another 
handler? Earlier in this thread it was looking like it was just a 
message box bug, now I'm not so sure.

> Good one, Alex... this sounds buggable to me.

Will do, I just want to make sure I can report the symptoms correctly.

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Mon Jul 14 00:09:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Jul 14 00:09:00 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
In-Reply-To: <5F5D5660-B5B6-11D7-9BFE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4FC0A41D-B5B8-11D7-B490-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 10:48  PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>  Alex has already reported another problem in debugging tools and 
> by-reference.

Yep this one is just that the variable watcher stack doesn't show the 
values of by-reference parameters.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Jul 14 00:11:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon Jul 14 00:11:01 2003
Subject: Image conversion still broken
In-Reply-To: <BB378335.1CA4%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BB378335.1CA4%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <3F1239BC.7040904@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/13/03 8:44 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

>>Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:07:40 -0500
>>From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
>>Organization: HyperActive Software
>>Subject: Re: Image conversion still broken
> 
> 
>>put the paintCompression of last image
>>
>>What does the message box say? When I try it, it says "png".
> 
> ----------
> Yep, it says "png".
> 
> Very nice. So, where is the image?

Somewhere on the card. If you can't see it, it may have large white 
areas that got imported, so that's all you can see. You can try setting 
its topleft to 0,0, and maybe you can see it then. The one I imported in 
my test was centered on the card, but if your image is very large and 
the center is white, you may not be seeing the visible part of the 
image. You may have to play around a little bit to find it. Or use the 
app overview to select it and look at its properties.


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Jul 14 00:17:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon Jul 14 00:17:00 2003
Subject: Image conversion still broken
In-Reply-To: <200307140256.WAA29899@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB378A71.1CA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>

OK, I finally got the handles of an image to show up, and it has a name and
id number, position, etc. It ought to be the one I imported, but it is
empty, IOW, no image.

Now what do I do?

Ken N.



From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Mon Jul 14 08:02:01 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Mon Jul 14 08:02:01 2003
Subject: Image conversion still broken
In-Reply-To: <200307121123.HAA09841@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3874B2.1FCE%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

Did this occur after an import snapshot command?

I also have problem with export image and this occured after an import
snapshot command. I suspect that there is a synchronisation problem and have
been able to find some workaround (send "export image ..." in 2 secs).



> Hello all,
> 
> Rev 2.0.1 still refuses to convert a PICT to a PNG on Import. Tuviah said it
> works, but I'm saying it's broken on my end. It will not work, period.
> 
> I have no reason to lie about it, and have not found a cure. Any help
> appreciated.
> 
> Mac G4 tower, 350mHz, 500mb RAM, OS 9.2.1
> 
> TIA,
> Ken N.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Jul 14 10:00:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon Jul 14 10:00:00 2003
Subject: Image conversion still broken
In-Reply-To: <BB378A71.1CA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BB378A71.1CA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <3F12C3DB.9080506@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/13/03 9:15 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> OK, I finally got the handles of an image to show up, and it has a name and
> id number, position, etc. It ought to be the one I imported, but it is
> empty, IOW, no image.
> 
> Now what do I do?

Not sure. Try a different image, saved as PICT with a different paint 
program, maybe? I was using a PICT saved by Graphic Converter. For 
testing, try a small image.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jimlyons at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 14 10:07:00 2003
From: jimlyons at earthlink.net (Jim Lyons)
Date: Mon Jul 14 10:07:00 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
References: <200307140256.WAA29899@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F12C623.69F4FC02@earthlink.net>

It was pointed out recently that it is much faster, especially for
increasingly large amounts of text, to "repeat for each line of theText"
than "repeat with i=1 to the number of lines of theText". But what if
you need to know what line you're on in the loop? Do you have to use the
slower form?

TIA,
Jim Lyons
Tallahassee, Florida, USA


From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Jul 14 10:16:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon Jul 14 10:16:00 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <3F12C623.69F4FC02@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2465354A-B60D-11D7-94D0-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Jim,

> It was pointed out recently that it is much faster, especially for
> increasingly large amounts of text, to "repeat for each line of 
> theText"
> than "repeat with i=1 to the number of lines of theText". But what if
> you need to know what line you're on in the loop? Do you have to use 
> the
> slower form?

Nope :-)

Just add these 2 lines to know what line your on

...
put 0 into your_line_counter
repeat for each line ...
   add 1 to your_line_counter
   ## do your ultra-fast stuff here...
...

So you can always do something with this var inside the loop...

Hope that helps.

> TIA,
> Jim Lyons
> Tallahassee, Florida, USA

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 10:22:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Jul 14 10:22:00 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <3F12C623.69F4FC02@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20030714151501.98172.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jim Lyons <jimlyons at earthlink.net> wrote:
> It was pointed out recently that it is much faster,
> especially for
> increasingly large amounts of text, to "repeat for
> each line of theText"
> than "repeat with i=1 to the number of lines of
> theText". But what if
> you need to know what line you're on in the loop? Do
> you have to use the
> slower form?
> 
> TIA,
> Jim Lyons
> 

Hi Jim,

The easiest way to do that without sacrificing the
speed advantage of repeat for each is to track the
index by means of a counter ; for example :
  put 0 into i
  repeat for each line tLine in tVariable
    add 1 to i
    -- do funny stuff, and use the index in i
    -- ...
  end repeat
  -- the other advantage is that i contains the number
of lines after the repeat

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Jul 14 10:26:01 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon Jul 14 10:26:01 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <3F12C623.69F4FC02@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-8A274D5CB60E11D7934600039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>

On 7/14/03 Jim Lyons wrote

>It was pointed out recently that it is much faster, especially for
>increasingly large amounts of text, to "repeat for each line of theText"
>than "repeat with i=1 to the number of lines of theText". But what if
>you need to know what line you're on in the loop? Do you have to use the
>slower form?

What I do is set i to 1 before the loop starts and then at the end of my repeat loop statements I put "add 1 to i".  That way you keep track of what iteration you are on but you get the speed of the repeat for each.  At least that is my theory.  I haven't done time comparisons.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul 14 11:25:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul 14 11:25:00 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-8A274D5CB60E11D7934600039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>
Message-ID: <B0744F54-B616-11D7-8FB5-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 09:19 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> What I do is set i to 1 before the loop starts and then at the end of  
> my repeat loop statements I put "add 1 to i".  That way you keep track  
> of what iteration you are on but you get the speed of the repeat for  
> each.  At least that is my theory.  I haven't done time comparisons.

You are right; "add 1 to i" is constant time for each loop cycle, and  
so will cost you time proportionally to the number of lines.  The  
"repeat with i" _with_ line chunking will cost you proportionally to  
the square of the size of the data.  The "repeat for each" will cost  
you proportional to the size of the data.  ("Size of data" is my fuzzy  
way of vaguely accounting for chars and lines.)

Not only that, that constant time for each loop cycle is very small for  
'add 1 to i".  It takes 0.7 microseconds on my computer.  (BTW, 'put x  
+ 1 into x' takes 1.4 microseconds, so, is fast too, so use whatever is  
readable.)

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Jul 14 15:07:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon Jul 14 15:07:01 2003
Subject: Image conversion still broken
In-Reply-To: <200307141601.MAA09199@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB385B12.1CC5%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello, uh, Joel, is it?

> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:54:42 +0200
> Subject: RE: Image conversion still broken
> From: Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod <joel.guillod at net2000.ch>
> 
> Did this occur after an import snapshot command?
----------
Not exaciticly [:-)], but it is a PICT made from a Mac screenshot. If you
take a screen shot, it autofiles itself as a PICT file on the HD. That's
where I imported it from. Actually it was very small one (portion of the
screeen using shift-cmd-4), about 1-1/2 in. x 2 in. on my monitor.
----------
> I also have problem with export image and this occured after an import
> snapshot command. I suspect that there is a synchronisation problem and have
> been able to find some workaround (send "export image ..." in 2 secs).
----------
I don't know...will I get the convert dialog if I import via a message?

Ken N.



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Mon Jul 14 15:29:00 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Mon Jul 14 15:29:00 2003
Subject: Scrolling Image-window
References: <200307140256.WAA29899@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F1310B1.1050608@pacbell.net>

> From: "R. Hillen" <mail at richard-hillen.de>


> 
> I have some very large Images (4000x4000 pix) (maps of noise in 
> Germany), which I want to show without scaling in a scrolling window 
> with size 200 x 200 pix or so.
> How to add scrollbars to an Imageobject?
> What is the solution?
> 
> Thanx in advance
> 

The solution for attaching scrollbars will work, BUT not on images 
4000x4000. I had a similar problem in MetaCard a couple of weeks ago.

MC/Rev tends to choke on these really big pix. Here's what Scott had to say:

I asked:
 > The balky photos all opened in Photoshop, Quicktime, PhotoImpression, or
 > Appleworks. The attached folder contains one of the balky pix.
 >
 > Any ideas?


We're stumped.  Works fine on Win32 and on UNIX systems, including the
Darwin engine.  But it fails in both the PPC and Mach-O (OS X)
engines.  It must be a problem in the JPEG library we're using, which
means it's not going to be practical for us to fix it.  But I'll put
upgrading that library on the to-do list for 2.5.1 and will put
checking this image on the QA list for that release.  Mean time, I
don't have much in the way of suggestions for getting these things to
display.  Have you tried recompressing them with some other tool, or
maybe just scaling them down?  At 4795 pixels, they're pretty wide...
   Regards,
     Scott



Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Jul 14 15:34:03 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon Jul 14 15:34:03 2003
Subject: Image conversion still broken
In-Reply-To: <200307141601.MAA09199@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB386130.1CC6%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Jacque,

> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:53:15 -0500
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Organization: HyperActive Software
> Subject: Re: Image conversion still broken
> 
> On 7/13/03 9:15 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
> 
>> OK, I finally got the handles of an image to show up, and it has a name and
>> id number, position, etc. It ought to be the one I imported, but it is
>> empty, IOW, no image.
>> 
>> Now what do I do?
> 
> Not sure. Try a different image, saved as PICT with a different paint
> program, maybe? I was using a PICT saved by Graphic Converter. For
> testing, try a small image.
----------
Well, it's a small screenshot PICT (1-1/2 x 2 inches) made by the Mac itself
(shift-cmd-3), imported right from the HD, i.e., Picture 11, to be exact.
HyperCard imports it with no problems, as always, but, of course, it's not a
control there.

I tried resetting the visible and closing/reopening the stack several
different ways. During one of those actions, a phantom image showed up,
i.e., I clicked where I had expected it to show before (when there was
nothing), and suddenly I got handles and could open its dialog. I don't know
which action did it, though, because the actual image is not there, or is
totally transparent or something, so I couldn't see it.

Since then, I've tried setting its inks and blendlevels with no avail. Rev
thinks there is an image object there, but it can't display it.

I guess I'll try to do something in PS.

Ken N.




From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 16:52:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon Jul 14 16:52:00 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <2465354A-B60D-11D7-94D0-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20030714214521.47919.qmail@web20009.mail.yahoo.com>

good to know that what they used to teach in
Basic intro courses is still valid.

why should:

put (the number of lines in tText) into tTotal
repeat with i = 1 to tTotal
   doSomething(line i of tText)
end repeat

be any faster than:

put 0 into tCounter
repeat for each line of tText
  add 1 to tCounter
  doSomething(line tCounter of tText)
end repeat

?

thanks,

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul 14 17:22:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul 14 17:22:01 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <20030714214521.47919.qmail@web20009.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8827928E-B648-11D7-8FB5-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 03:45 PM, erik hansen wrote:

> put (the number of lines in tText) into tTotal
> repeat with i = 1 to tTotal
>    doSomething(line i of tText)
> end repeat
>
> be any faster than:
>
> put 0 into tCounter
> repeat for each line of tText
>   add 1 to tCounter
>   doSomething(line tCounter of tText)
> end repeat

It is slightly faster, but it is not the question at hand as I  
understand it.

I think the situation is this:

put (the number of lines in tText) into tTotal
repeat with i = 1 to tTotal
    doSomething( i, line i of tText )  -- use both # & line
end repeat

is slower than

put 0 into tCounter
repeat for each line tLine of tText
   add 1 to tCounter
   doSomething(tCounter, tLine)  -- use both # & line
end repeat

The first one much climb through the tText every cycle to get to the  
desired line.

Dar

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jul 14 17:30:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Jul 14 17:30:01 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <20030714214521.47919.qmail@web20009.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB387B5B.30A40%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

erik hansen wrote:

> why should:
> 
> put (the number of lines in tText) into tTotal
> repeat with i = 1 to tTotal
>   doSomething(line i of tText)
> end repeat
>
> be any faster than:
> 
> put 0 into tCounter
> repeat for each line of tText
>   add 1 to tCounter
>   doSomething(line tCounter of tText)
> end repeat

Actually, that won't work: "repeat for each" requires you to specify a chunk
variable, like this:

 repeat for each line tMyLine of tText
   doSomething(tMyLine)
 end repeat

Why is it so much faster?

When you say:

   get line i of tText

...it has to walk through all the characters from the beginning, counting
carriage returns as it goes, until it reaches i number of lines.   This
creates a scaling problem:  the first time through the loop it's pretty
fast, but by the end it could be traversing hundreds or thousands of lines
each time through.  It does this with the most flexible assumption: if
something in the loop changes tText, only this brute-force method will
accurately count lines.

The "repeat for each" form works on a different assumption:  in cases where
you know tText won't change during the loop, the engine can afford to keep a
pointer into tText that tells it where it left off.  Each time through the
loop it only counts forward from where it last left off to the end of the
next line, so it scales beautifully:  each iteration takes almost exactly
the same time as the last.

And with specifying a chunk variable in the repeat statement, the chunk is
already parsed and stored in that var each iteration, ready for use.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 18:12:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon Jul 14 18:12:01 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <BB387B5B.30A40%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030714230450.59576.qmail@web20009.mail.yahoo.com>

thanks Dar & Richard

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Mon Jul 14 18:14:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Jul 14 18:14:00 2003
Subject: corrupted data stack?
Message-ID: <E5D765A3-B64F-11D7-B6DC-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

I have a data stack which has lots of duplicate keys in it's custom 
properties. Since custom properties are arrays, does that mean this 
stack is corrupted? This script reveals many, many duplicate keys:

set the customPropertySet of stack "UserData.rev" to "VisitorFacility"
put customProperties["VisitorFacility"] of stack "UserData.rev" into 
tArr
put the keys of tArr into tFu
-- OR
-- (this also shows the same list w/ many duplicate keys)
-- put the customKeys of stack "UserData.rev" into tFu
sort lines of tFu
put tFu

Is it corrupted, and how can I repair this stack?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Jul 14 18:52:00 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon Jul 14 18:52:00 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <BB387B5B.30A40%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <026501c34a61$d186c760$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

> The "repeat for each" form works on a different assumption:  
> in cases where you know tText won't change during the loop, 
> the engine can afford to keep a pointer into tText that tells 
> it where it left off.  Each time through the loop it only 
> counts forward from where it last left off to the end of the 
> next line, so it scales beautifully:  each iteration takes 
> almost exactly the same time as the last.
> 
> And with specifying a chunk variable in the repeat statement, 
> the chunk is already parsed and stored in that var each 
> iteration, ready for use.

Wouldn't it be great if we had:

  repeat for each line tMyLine in tData with counter tCounter
    doSomething(tMyLine)
  end repeat
  -- Then use tCounter thereafter...

Just a suggestion...

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 




From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 14 19:04:00 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon Jul 14 19:04:00 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <BB387B5B.30A40%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1B33FBD9-B657-11D7-AF23-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 03:23  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Actually, that won't work: "repeat for each" requires you to specify a 
> chunk
> variable, like this:
>
>  repeat for each line tMyLine of tText
>    doSomething(tMyLine)
>  end repeat
>
> Why is it so much faster?
>
> When you say:
>
>    get line i of tText
>
> ...it has to walk through all the characters from the beginning, 
> counting
> carriage returns as it goes, until it reaches i number of lines.   This
> creates a scaling problem:  the first time through the loop it's pretty
> fast, but by the end it could be traversing hundreds or thousands of 
> lines
> each time through.  It does this with the most flexible assumption: if
> something in the loop changes tText, only this brute-force method will
> accurately count lines.
>
> The "repeat for each" form works on a different assumption:  in cases 
> where
> you know tText won't change during the loop, the engine can afford to 
> keep a
> pointer into tText that tells it where it left off.  Each time through 
> the
> loop it only counts forward from where it last left off to the end of 
> the
> next line, so it scales beautifully:  each iteration takes almost 
> exactly
> the same time as the last.
>
> And with specifying a chunk variable in the repeat statement, the 
> chunk is
> already parsed and stored in that var each iteration, ready for use.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin

Well I'll be. This might actually optimize RevBlowfish.

This:

   put 1 into ic
   put 1 into ix
   repeat while ic <= textCryptLength
     put char ix to (ix + 3) of cryptThisText into strXL
     put char (ix + 4) to (ix + 7)  of cryptThisText into strXL

might works as:

repeat for each char tMychunk of cryptThisText  step 8
     put char 1 to 4 of tMychunk into strXL
     put char 5 to 8 of tMychunk into strXR

Does anyone know if "repeat for each char" works with step?

Mark

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From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul 14 19:15:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul 14 19:15:01 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <1B33FBD9-B657-11D7-AF23-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4FF55236-B658-11D7-8FB5-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 05:58 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> This:
>
>   put 1 into ic
>   put 1 into ix
>   repeat while ic <= textCryptLength
>     put char ix to (ix + 3) of cryptThisText into strXL
>     put char (ix + 4) to (ix + 7)  of cryptThisText into strXL
>
> might works as:
>
> repeat for each char tMychunk of cryptThisText  step 8
>     put char 1 to 4 of tMychunk into strXL
>     put char 5 to 8 of tMychunk into strXR

If that does anything, I'd doubt it will chunk more than one char at a 
time.  Try a small test.

And the good news is that you don't need it.

The counting from the front (or back) does not apply to char, only to 
other chunks.  Char chunking is fast and direct.

Dar



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 14 19:38:00 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon Jul 14 19:38:00 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <4FF55236-B658-11D7-8FB5-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <E4CEB129-B65B-11D7-AF23-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 05:07  PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> And the good news is that you don't need it.
>
> The counting from the front (or back) does not apply to char, only to 
> other chunks.  Char chunking is fast and direct.
>
> Dar

"???(t??5??*?[U9t?????*??d9?^??z`?????02??"  Works great.  ;^)

Thanks

Mark



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 20:11:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon Jul 14 20:11:01 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <8827928E-B648-11D7-8FB5-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20030715010422.63774.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> I think the situation is this:
> 
> put (the number of lines in tText) into tTotal
> repeat with i = 1 to tTotal
>     doSomething( i, line i of tText )
>  -- use both # & line
> end repeat
> 
> is slower than
> 
> put 0 into tCounter
> repeat for each line tLine of tText
>    add 1 to tCounter
>    doSomething(tCounter, tLine)  
> -- use both # & line
> end repeat

so tLine is the contents of the line?
i had thought tLine was a kind of
counter/pointer.

this is helping a lot, thanks.

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jul 14 20:23:13 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Jul 14 20:23:13 2003
Subject: [OT] More Linux adoption news
Message-ID: <BB38A3D7.30A5A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

eWeek: Linux Making Headway in Desktop Space

Mitch Kapor on Linux:

"...I'm not going to tell you that Linux is going to take over the desktop
world, but it will significantly grow its share," Kapor said. "Because of
the momentum around Linux, we will see price cuts by Microsoft. It would not
surprise me to see 10 percent of global desktops running Linux in the near
future. The rest of the world is leading the U.S. in terms of Linux, and I
expect that to continue. Foreign governments are also embracing Linux more
so than here....." 

<http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,3668,a=44522,00.asp>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jul 14 20:26:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Jul 14 20:26:01 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <20030715010422.63774.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB38A46B.30A5C%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

erik hansen wrote:

>> put 0 into tCounter
>> repeat for each line tLine of tText
>> add 1 to tCounter
>> doSomething(tCounter, tLine)
>> -- use both # & line
>> end repeat
> 
> so tLine is the contents of the line?
> i had thought tLine was a kind of
> counter/pointer.

Nope, it's the chunk itself.

Try some benchmarks between the two and you'll be quite surprised by how
fast it is...

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul 14 20:28:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul 14 20:28:01 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <20030715010422.63774.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A480BD54-B662-11D7-8FB5-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 07:04 PM, erik hansen wrote:

>
> so tLine is the contents of the line?
> i had thought tLine was a kind of
> counter/pointer.

Right!  And since it is not a counter/pointer then Jim needed something  
separate to be the counter.

Dar


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From raney at metacard.com  Mon Jul 14 20:54:00 2003
From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney)
Date: Mon Jul 14 20:54:00 2003
Subject: Scrolling Image-window
In-Reply-To: <200307150024.UAA18475@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307141937130.13296-100000@mast.metacard.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 "Ray G. Miller" <rgmiller at pacbell.net> wrote:

> I asked:
>  > The balky photos all opened in Photoshop, Quicktime, PhotoImpression, or
>  > Appleworks. The attached folder contains one of the balky pix.
>  >
>  > Any ideas?
> 
> We're stumped.  Works fine on Win32 and on UNIX systems, including the
> Darwin engine.  But it fails in both the PPC and Mach-O (OS X)
> engines. 

Just FYI, I figured this out later that day: the problem is a
fundamental limitation in the MacOS API.  You just can't draw images
larger than 4096 pixels using QuickDraw on 32-bit depth screens, the
API just doesn't support it.  It's possible (but a *lot* of work) to
get around this by "tiling" the image into several separate pixmaps
and drawing them in sequence, but we have no plans to do this.  I'll
bug report the doc, but in the mean time your only workarounds are to
resize the images to be less than that width, do the tiling yourself
(i.e., use several image objects), use a lower screen depth, or use a
different platform.
  Regards,
    Scott

> Ray G. Miller
> __________________
> Turtlelips Productions
> 4009 Everett Ave.
> Oakland, CA 94602
> MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
> (V) 510.530.1971
> (F) 510.482.3491

********************************************************
Scott Raney  raney at metacard.com  http://www.metacard.com
MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...




From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul 14 21:08:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul 14 21:08:00 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <BB38A46B.30A5C%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <31DF5E26-B668-11D7-8FB5-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 07:18 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> so tLine is the contents of the line?
>> i had thought tLine was a kind of
>> counter/pointer.
>
> Nope, it's the chunk itself.


On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 07:21 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>> so tLine is the contents of the line?
>> i had thought tLine was a kind of
>> counter/pointer.
>
> Right!  And since it is not a counter/pointer then Jim needed 
> something separate to be the counter.

LOL!  It is interesting how Nope and Right both correctly respond to 
the same comment.

Dar



From HyperChris at aol.com  Mon Jul 14 23:04:01 2003
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Mon Jul 14 23:04:01 2003
Subject: Table'itis Redux
Message-ID: <1c4.c866f85.2c44d576@aol.com>

Thanks to Jan for the pointers last week. I see now that Tables are really 
"rev built" objects and therefore controlled by frontScripts which I can 
explore. 

For example, I see that while the data is stored in the field and accessible 
through direct scriptiing (put "test" into fld"Table") it is better to always 
work with the custom cREVTable property first and then use the functions 
defined in the frontScript to update both the contents of the field and the table 
and how it looks.

Just in case anyone is having troubles with Jan's sample, note that you need 
to do the frontScript calls with one more level of indirection. For example ...
   revDisplayFormattedData field "foobar"
... should be ...
   revDisplayFormattedData ("field"&quote&"foobar"&quote)
... that way the frontscript code can request the field's id without problem.

Thanks again. This is a great list !!!


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Jul 15 01:10:01 2003
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue Jul 15 01:10:01 2003
Subject: pass by reference with multiple parameters?
In-Reply-To: <76D5408C-B5B7-11D7-B490-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <76D5408C-B5B7-11D7-B490-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <625114974.20030714230248@ahsoftware.net>

Alex-

Sunday, July 13, 2003, 9:56:00 PM, you wrote:

AR> Mark, are you running those tests from the message box, or from another
AR> handler? Earlier in this thread it was looking like it was just a 
AR> message box bug, now I'm not so sure.

This is from the multi-line message box. Seems to work fine from a
button script.

>> Good one, Alex... this sounds buggable to me.

AR> Will do, I just want to make sure I can report the symptoms correctly.

(Sorry for the delay here - I've been out all day reinstalling win2k
server on a client's machine - don't ask...)

-Mark Wieder




From guzdial at cc.gatech.edu  Tue Jul 15 07:52:00 2003
From: guzdial at cc.gatech.edu (Mark Guzdial)
Date: Tue Jul 15 07:52:00 2003
Subject: Scrolling through panorama JPEGs?
In-Reply-To: <20030621213126.28467.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEKNDDAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.8.2.20030715082350.05ca9bf8@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>

I've generated some panorama JPEGs using a mode on my Powershot S45.  These 
are JPEGs that are some 1024 pixels high and several thousand pixels 
long.  There's an example at 
http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/guzdial/uploads/37/panoramaFromAcropolis2.jpg

Has anyone built anything in Revolution for showing these kinds of 
shots?  I can imagine a couple of different ways I'd like to show such 
pictures:
- Display a slideful of the image in an image viewer, with a horizontal 
scrollbar for allowing the user to scroll through the length.
- Display a segment of the image and dynamically move the view along the 
image in a path scripted by me (ala Ken Burns' documentary style).

Any suggestions?
   Thanks!
    Mark


______
Mark Guzdial, Associate Professor, College of Computing/GVU
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~mark.guzdial/
Collaborative Software Lab http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/csl 




From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Tue Jul 15 08:07:00 2003
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic Thebault)
Date: Tue Jul 15 08:07:00 2003
Subject: Scrolling through panorama JPEGs?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.8.2.20030715082350.05ca9bf8@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEKNDDAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com> <5.2.0.8.2.20030715082350.05ca9bf8@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <3F13FA95.5060708@laposte.net>

Mark Guzdial wrote:

> Any suggestions?

Group your image and set the scrolling of group to horizontal.



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Tue Jul 15 08:34:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Tue Jul 15 08:34:00 2003
Subject: Scrolling through panorama JPEGs?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.8.2.20030715082350.05ca9bf8@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <05B017C1-B6C8-11D7-A46F-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le mardi, 15 juil 2003, ? 14:39 Europe/Brussels, Mark Guzdial a ?crit :

> I've generated some panorama JPEGs using a mode on my Powershot S45.   
> These are JPEGs that are some 1024 pixels high and several thousand  
> pixels long.  There's an example at  
> http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/guzdial/uploads/37/ 
> panoramaFromAcropolis2.jpg
>
> Has anyone built anything in Revolution for showing these kinds of  
> shots?  I can imagine a couple of different ways I'd like to show such  
> pictures:
> - Display a slideful of the image in an image viewer, with a  
> horizontal scrollbar for allowing the user to scroll through the  
> length.
> - Display a segment of the image and dynamically move the view along  
> the image in a path scripted by me (ala Ken Burns' documentary style).
>
> Any suggestions?
>   Thanks!
>    Mark
>
>
>

I've made something based on the viewer of Chipp Walters.

You may download his fantastic stack at

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm

the name of the stack is "altThumbBrowser"

you may also change a little the code and use the new "drag'n drop"  
feature of Rev 2 to easily add some pict to your browser.

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Tue Jul 15 13:34:00 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Tue Jul 15 13:34:00 2003
Subject: Creating a DSN for ODBC access
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D30@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

I am on Windows 2000, and have a relatively small Microsoft Access database
that I want to point to and extract raw data.  I am stumped at square one. I
would like to use the path instead of a DSN to address the database,
something like

get revOpenDatabase("ODBC","",pathToFile)

However this doesn't seem to work.  Is it required that I use a DSN for ODBC
access?  I am not understanding the advantages of having to do this and am
confounded by the interface of the Data Sources control panel that the docs
point to.  (BTW, I am a RunRev newbie, but with years of HyperCard
development in the early 90s--this product is my dream come true).  

Any help appreciated!

Mark Powell


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 13:55:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul 15 13:55:00 2003
Subject: Repeat loop index
In-Reply-To: <31DF5E26-B668-11D7-8FB5-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20030715184727.80352.qmail@web20005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> 
> On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 07:18 PM, Richard
> Gaskin wrote:
> 
> >> so tLine is the contents of the line?
> >> i had thought tLine was a kind of
> >> counter/pointer.
> >
> > Nope, it's the chunk itself.
> 
> 
> On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 07:21 PM, Dar
> Scott wrote:
> 
> >> so tLine is the contents of the line?
> >> i had thought tLine was a kind of
> >> counter/pointer.
> >
> > Right!  And since it is not a counter/pointer
> then Jim needed 
> > something separate to be the counter.
> 
> LOL!  It is interesting how Nope and Right both
> correctly respond to 
> the same comment.

yes.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 15 13:56:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 15 13:56:00 2003
Subject: Creating a DSN for ODBC access
In-Reply-To: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D30@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
Message-ID: <F81C7D78-B6F4-11D7-860C-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 12:26  PM, Mark Powell wrote:
>  I am not understanding the advantages of having to do this and am
> confounded by the interface of the Data Sources control panel that the 
> docs
> point to.

AFAIK you can't address ODBC databases by a path. You have to use The 
DSN.

I don't use Access, or Runrev with ODBC, but I have used ODBC on 
windows 2000 in the past, with a mysql database. I guess DSN stands for 
"Data Source Name". The idea is you use the control panel to define 
settings about your database connection (driver, hostname, username, 
password, database specific settings, etc). That NAME is then used by 
ODBC clients to connect to the data source. It's a good concept and it 
works.

>   (BTW, I am a RunRev newbie, but with years of HyperCard
> development in the early 90s--this product is my dream come true).

Welcome to the list!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 15 15:06:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 15 15:06:00 2003
Subject: Scrolling through panorama JPEGs?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.8.2.20030715082350.05ca9bf8@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <BB39AAF2.30AFB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Mark Guzdial wrote:

> I've generated some panorama JPEGs using a mode on my Powershot S45.  These
> are JPEGs that are some 1024 pixels high and several thousand pixels
> long.  There's an example at
> http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/guzdial/uploads/37/panoramaFromAcropolis2.jpg
> 
> Has anyone built anything in Revolution for showing these kinds of
> shots?  I can imagine a couple of different ways I'd like to show such
> pictures:
> - Display a slideful of the image in an image viewer, with a horizontal
> scrollbar for allowing the user to scroll through the length.
> - Display a segment of the image and dynamically move the view along the
> image in a path scripted by me (ala Ken Burns' documentary style).

First off, that's a great image!

Have you considered QTVR for that?  The nature of the pano seems a natural
fit, and Tuviah has done a great job of adding QTVR support.

Check out the pan and tilt player properties.  They can be both read and
set, so you can guide the user if you like or leave the alwaysbuffer off and
let them also interact with it, displaying your notes depending on ranges of
pan and tilt settings.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 15 15:51:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 15 15:51:00 2003
Subject: hypertext and "hand" cursor
Message-ID: <07A75452-B705-11D7-9C52-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

It seems that Rev's normal cursor handling doesn't switch between an 
arrow and a hand for hypertext. Here is a way I came up with.

--
-- mouseEnter/Leave
-- cursor changing for hypertext fields. does not conflict with other 
cursors like i-beam over
-- editable fields. put this in a card or stack to handle all hypertext 
fields.
--
on mouseEnter
   if the textStyle of the target = "link" then
     set the cursor to hand
     lock cursor
   end if
   pass mouseEnter
end mouseEnter

on mouseLeave
    if the textStyle of the target = "link" then
     set the cursor to the defaultCursor
     unlock cursor
   end if
   pass mouseLeave
end mouseLeave


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 15:53:03 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul 15 15:53:03 2003
Subject: initialize an static, local, script-wide variable to empty
In-Reply-To: <BABBAFED.2B08F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030715204619.54954.qmail@web20003.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:
> erik hansen wrote:
> 
> > 
> > --- Richard Gaskin
> <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >>> is there a way to set sHolder to
> >>> empty between each use?

> No, you would need a handler to trigger it. 
> Otherwise, Rev wuldn't know
> when you want it cleared.

i wanted a static-global like sHolder to empty
itself between uses just to reduce the clutter.

local tHolder 
in each handler does the job, of course.

in the script (ouside any handler) you can write
local sHolder = 0 and this will put 0 into
sHolder but i haven't found out whether sHolder
resets to 0 after each use.


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 15 16:20:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 15 16:20:00 2003
Subject: initialize an static, local, script-wide variable to empty
In-Reply-To: <20030715204619.54954.qmail@web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB39BC20.30B12%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

erik hansen wrote:

> --- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> wrote:
>> erik hansen wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> --- Richard Gaskin
>> <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> is there a way to set sHolder to
>>>>> empty between each use?
> 
>> No, you would need a handler to trigger it.
>> Otherwise, Rev wuldn't know
>> when you want it cleared.
> 
> i wanted a static-global like sHolder to empty
> itself between uses just to reduce the clutter.
> 
> local tHolder 
> in each handler does the job, of course.
> 
> in the script (ouside any handler) you can write
> local sHolder = 0 and this will put 0 into
> sHolder but i haven't found out whether sHolder
> resets to 0 after each use.

Scipr-local (or "static") vars retain their values during the current
session.  The exception is that editing a script will reset the value of
such vars defined in it.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 16:30:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul 15 16:30:01 2003
Subject: initialize an static, local, script-wide variable to empty
In-Reply-To: <BB39BC20.30B12%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030715212311.56970.qmail@web20009.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:
> Scipr-local (or "static") vars retain their
> values during the current
> session.  The exception is that editing a
> script will reset the value of
> such vars defined in it.

thanks, this was inadvertantly sent during
a housecleaning. does "editing a script"
refer to scripted changes to a script during
a session?

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 15 16:39:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 15 16:39:00 2003
Subject: XML integration
In-Reply-To: <20030712230433.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
Message-ID: <BB39C0B1.30B17%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com wrote:

> No it is not Mark that has a bee in his bonnet about XML, it is me :-)
> 
> The diff program I am using sees Rev stacks as binary files.  All it can tell
> me is that two binary files are indeed different; it can't show me where they
> differ.
> 
> This is one reason why I would like to be able to convert stacks into text.
> 
> I'm also very interested in being able to convert XML back into stacks.  It
> would effectively mean that one could externalize all the content of a stack.
> Say one decided to change the language in which an app was distributed - all
> the relevant terms would be there in clear text and could be easily extracted,
> translated, replaced, and then the XML re-converted back to a stack ready for
> building.  Heck, maybe even the building of the executable could be automated
> as part of this process.
> 
> It could also open up development to other environments.  Any tool that could
> edit or emit XML could also be a source for a Rev application.
> 
> That Geoff has done the foundation of this for Rev 1.1.1 shows it is doable.
> I am surprised that Runrev didn't take this up and run with it.
> 
> Or am I way off beam in seeing the potential in this?

The diff issue could be resolved by simpler and possibly more effective
means than XML.  Depending on what you want to do with the information it
could be formatted in any number of ways, and could be obtained more quickly
by running a comparison script against two stack files directly without the
intermediate step of writing XML versions of each.

As for using XML as a way to transfer files, it wouls be more efficient to
simply Base64 them for ASCII transfer.  So while I find the idea somewhat
attractive for posting object-dependent script examples, I'm hard-pressed to
find many other practical uses for it.

What would you use XML stak descriptions for?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 15 16:42:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 15 16:42:00 2003
Subject: initialize an static, local, script-wide variable to empty
In-Reply-To: <20030715212311.56970.qmail@web20009.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB39C16B.30B1E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

erik hansen wrote:

> 
> --- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> wrote:
>> Scipr-local (or "static") vars retain their
>> values during the current
>> session.  The exception is that editing a
>> script will reset the value of
>> such vars defined in it.
> 
> thanks, this was inadvertantly sent during
> a housecleaning. does "editing a script"
> refer to scripted changes to a script during
> a session?

Yes, but keep in mind that if you passwordprotect your scripts you won't be
able to swap them at runtime.

What does your program do that it needs to write scripts on the fly?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 17:06:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:06:00 2003
Subject: initialize an static, local, script-wide variable to empty
In-Reply-To: <BB39C16B.30B1E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030715215850.96747.qmail@web20004.mail.yahoo.com>

> > --- Richard Gaskin
> <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Scipr-local (or "static") vars retain their
> >> values during the current
> >> session.  The exception is that editing a
> >> script will reset the value of
> >> such vars defined in it.
> > 
> > thanks, this was inadvertantly sent during
> > a housecleaning. does "editing a script"
> > refer to scripted changes to a script during
> > a session?
> 
> Yes, but keep in mind that if you
> passwordprotect your scripts you won't be
> able to swap them at runtime.
> 
> What does your program do that it needs to
> write scripts on the fly?

i would rewrite functions to keep track of 
changing object names. with RR's labels this 
is no longer needed.

another example of long complex scripting
that really impressed people in the lab
but was replaced by a few lines of script
or a new program capability.

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 15 17:14:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:14:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <200307092214.h69MEoq61539@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <BB39C8DA.30B30%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Edwin Gore wrote:

> Excellent suggestion Chipp - Webmerge is a great product and would be very
> well suited for this - plus there's a trial version!

And for what it's worth, I was inspired ny Rev with the licensing:  every
feature is fully enabled in the WebMerge demo with no time limit.  Similarly
to Rev's script limits, the only restriction is the number of records that
can be processed for free (currently 20).

There are a number of Web developers who use WebMerge in conjunction with MS
Access or FileMaker Pro to delivery a complete cpntent update system for
their clients with simpe Web sites.  Their client just types into whatever
fields their consultant has set up for them, and click a button that
launches an automated WebMerge settings file to merge the data with HTML
templates and upload the geberated pages.

I certainly don't mind folks getting good use out of the free download
version of WebMerge.  If you have a simple site with 20 pages or fewer and
could benefit from it by all means do so.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From dottorzivago at fastwebnet.it  Tue Jul 15 17:17:00 2003
From: dottorzivago at fastwebnet.it (Dottor Zivago)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:17:00 2003
Subject: Date calculations
In-Reply-To: <200307150025.UAA18535@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3A483D.189%dottorzivago@fastwebnet.it>

Dear friends,
Sorry for another basic question to the list but:
I would like to have a field as a container for a date, then a button that
performs a calculation on that date and puts the result in another field.
For instance, for a given LMP (last menstrual period) I need to calculate an
EDD (estimated date of delivery) that is simply LMP+280 (and this is what I
do in Excel or FileMaker).
Pleeeease, assume an IQ<=40; some lines to cut and paste between "on
mouseup" and "end mouseup" would be very very appreciated.
Thank you very much
Ciao
Ubaldo



From jameslewes at comcast.net  Tue Jul 15 17:19:00 2003
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (James Lewes)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:19:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <BB39C8DA.30B30%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <3D6D9F08-B711-11D7-87AB-000502F78A80@comcast.net>

I am  testing a site for mcGraw Hill so I should have the scratch to 
buy it next week

James
On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 06:06  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Edwin Gore wrote:
>
>> Excellent suggestion Chipp - Webmerge is a great product and would be 
>> very
>> well suited for this - plus there's a trial version!
>
> And for what it's worth, I was inspired ny Rev with the licensing:  
> every
> feature is fully enabled in the WebMerge demo with no time limit.  
> Similarly
> to Rev's script limits, the only restriction is the number of records 
> that
> can be processed for free (currently 20).
>
> There are a number of Web developers who use WebMerge in conjunction 
> with MS
> Access or FileMaker Pro to delivery a complete cpntent update system 
> for
> their clients with simpe Web sites.  Their client just types into 
> whatever
> fields their consultant has set up for them, and click a button that
> launches an automated WebMerge settings file to merge the data with 
> HTML
> templates and upload the geberated pages.
>
> I certainly don't mind folks getting good use out of the free download
> version of WebMerge.  If you have a simple site with 20 pages or fewer 
> and
> could benefit from it by all means do so.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From herz at ucsd.edu  Tue Jul 15 17:19:24 2003
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:19:24 2003
Subject: double-clicking stack on desktop
References: <200306012358.TAA28405@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <011701c34b1e$1daa54b0$58bfef84@rkhpc1>

OK, starting to convert from using MC to Rev...

In MC, double-clicking a file on the desktop opens the file in Player
environment; command-double-click opens stack in Development.  The reverse
is true in Rev.  I prefer MC's way for personal stacks (calendar, addresses,
etc.) used by myself and family - who definitely don't expect to see the
Development stacks open (and will refuse to remember to hold command key
down!)

Is there a way to change this behavior in Rev to the way it works in MC?  My
current fix is to hide the development stacks in openStack of the
douible-clicked stack.

Thanks
Rich Herz
herz at ucsd.edu
www.reactorlab.net




From herz at ucsd.edu  Tue Jul 15 17:28:01 2003
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:28:01 2003
Subject: MC "hand" when command-double-clicking stack
References: <200306012358.TAA28405@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <012e01c34b1f$6cfcebd0$58bfef84@rkhpc1>

When command-double-clicking a Rev stack on the desktop to open the stack in
Player environment, the hand cursor that appears (here at least) is
MetaCard's, not Rev's, and the font size in the answer stack is the larger
MC default size, not the smaller Rev size.  Apparently the Rev cursor and
default font sizes get applied to Player environment during the standalone
build process at some point.

Does anyone have an explanation of what is going on?

Rich Herz
herz at ucsd.edu
www.reactorlab.net




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Jul 15 17:40:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:40:01 2003
Subject: double-clicking stack on desktop
In-Reply-To: <011701c34b1e$1daa54b0$58bfef84@rkhpc1>
References: <200306012358.TAA28405@www.runrev.com> <011701c34b1e$1daa54b0$58bfef84@rkhpc1>
Message-ID: <3F1480F9.8090003@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/15/03 5:11 PM, Richard K. Herz wrote:

> OK, starting to convert from using MC to Rev...
> 
> In MC, double-clicking a file on the desktop opens the file in Player
> environment; command-double-click opens stack in Development.  The reverse
> is true in Rev.  I prefer MC's way for personal stacks (calendar, addresses,
> etc.) used by myself and family - who definitely don't expect to see the
> Development stacks open (and will refuse to remember to hold command key
> down!)
> 
> Is there a way to change this behavior in Rev to the way it works in MC?  My
> current fix is to hide the development stacks in openStack of the
> douible-clicked stack.

Rename the engine on disk. (Haven't tried it, but that's what I heard 
works.)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Tue Jul 15 17:42:00 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:42:00 2003
Subject: Date calculations
Message-ID: <200307152234.SAA19927@bright.unitz.ca>

on mouseUp
  -- holds the date that was in the text field "LMP"
  local tLMP

  -- put the text from field "LMP" into our variable
  put the text of field "LMP" into tLMP

  -- convert the date to dateItems (look at the 'convert'
entry in the docs)
  convert tLMP from short system date to dateItems

  -- add 288 days to the date we previously had (yes, it'll
adjust itself correctly)
  add 288 to item 3 of tLMP

  -- convert back from dateItems to normal date format
  convert tLMP from dateItems to system date

  -- display the EDD date
  put tLMP into field "EDD"
end mouseUp


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Jul 15 17:44:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:44:01 2003
Subject: Date calculations
In-Reply-To: <1030716081410.3f147cb2.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.75419@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <C5F3BEBC-B714-11D7-8162-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Ubaldo,

The easiest way is to convert your dates to "the seconds" i.e. the 
number of seconds since 1/1/1970. This way they are a single number 
that can be used in all your calculations. The only tricky bit is to 
make sure that your dates are in the format that is expected: m/d/y or 
d/m/y

Try this script but check that it is giving sensible answers before 
telling people when their baby is due :-)

on mouseUp
   ask "Enter the LMP date in m/d/y format:"  -- this is Rev's standard 
format
   put it into LMP
   if LMP is empty then exit mouseUp   -- user clicked Cancel or didn't 
enter anything
   if LMP is not a date then exit mouseUp   -- best to give an error 
message here
   convert LMP from short date to seconds
   put LMP + (60 * 60 * 24 * 280) into EDD   -- add 280 days in seconds
   convert EDD to short date
   answer "EDD (m/d/y): " & EDD
end mouseUp

You might also be interested in the Calendar stack that is available on 
my web page. It allows you to select a date graphically, rather than by 
typing and so eliminates any errors in date format. You can also return 
the result in the localised format by saying "convert EDD to short 
system date".

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 08:14  am, Dottor Zivago wrote:

> Dear friends,
> Sorry for another basic question to the list but:
> I would like to have a field as a container for a date, then a button 
> that
> performs a calculation on that date and puts the result in another 
> field.
> For instance, for a given LMP (last menstrual period) I need to 
> calculate an
> EDD (estimated date of delivery) that is simply LMP+280 (and this is 
> what I
> do in Excel or FileMaker).
> Pleeeease, assume an IQ<=40; some lines to cut and paste between "on
> mouseup" and "end mouseup" would be very very appreciated.
> Thank you very much
> Ciao
> Ubaldo




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 15 17:52:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:52:00 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <3D6D9F08-B711-11D7-87AB-000502F78A80@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BB39D1C2.30B3B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

James Lewes wrote:

> I am  testing a site for mcGraw Hill so I should have the scratch to
> buy it next week

Way cool.  Does that mean I should go ahead and send you the reg code, or
would you be too busy until then to use it anyway?

Keep me posted if I can be of service -

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 15 17:54:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:54:00 2003
Subject: double-clicking stack on desktop
In-Reply-To: <011701c34b1e$1daa54b0$58bfef84@rkhpc1>
Message-ID: <BB39D256.30B3C%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Richard K. Herz wrote:

> OK, starting to convert from using MC to Rev...
> 
> In MC, double-clicking a file on the desktop opens the file in Player
> environment; command-double-click opens stack in Development.  The reverse
> is true in Rev.  I prefer MC's way for personal stacks (calendar, addresses,
> etc.) used by myself and family - who definitely don't expect to see the
> Development stacks open (and will refuse to remember to hold command key
> down!)
> 
> Is there a way to change this behavior in Rev to the way it works in MC?  My
> current fix is to hide the development stacks in openStack of the
> douible-clicked stack.

I've hear that if you just rename the executable this behavior changes....

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From junkmail at myscratchdisk.com  Tue Jul 15 17:54:33 2003
From: junkmail at myscratchdisk.com (junkmail at myscratchdisk.com)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:54:33 2003
Subject: Progress Bar
Message-ID: <35BE52EA-B716-11D7-94BF-003065A8434E@myscratchdisk.com>

Still checking out RunRev....

I'm loading a file from the internet with "load URL". I've been trying 
to make a progress bar show it's status but cant seem to get it to 
work. Has anyone done this, and if so what is the best way to do this?

-d



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 15 18:08:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 15 18:08:00 2003
Subject: Progress Bar
In-Reply-To: <35BE52EA-B716-11D7-94BF-003065A8434E@myscratchdisk.com>
Message-ID: <BB39D587.30B56%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

junkmail at myscratchdisk.com wrote:

> Still checking out RunRev....
> 
> I'm loading a file from the internet with "load URL". I've been trying
> to make a progress bar show it's status but cant seem to get it to
> work. Has anyone done this, and if so what is the best way to do this?

Check out the RevNet backscript; feel free to use anything there...

In summary, the process incvolves checking urlStatus periodically and
parsing the params to set the values in the progress bar.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 15 18:35:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 15 18:35:00 2003
Subject: Progress Bar
In-Reply-To: <BB39D587.30B56%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E6D6591A-B71B-11D7-9C52-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 05:00  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Check out the RevNet backscript; feel free to use anything there...
>
> In summary, the process incvolves checking urlStatus periodically and
> parsing the params to set the values in the progress bar.

See also the new in 2.0 transcript handler

libURLSetStatusCallback [messageName,objectLongID]


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From jameslewes at comcast.net  Tue Jul 15 18:54:01 2003
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (James Lewes)
Date: Tue Jul 15 18:54:01 2003
Subject: Need some help
In-Reply-To: <BB39D1C2.30B3B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <80298354-B71E-11D7-87AB-000502F78A80@comcast.net>

I will not be able to use it til next week, but if you want to send it 
go ahead
On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 06:44  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> James Lewes wrote:
>
>> I am  testing a site for mcGraw Hill so I should have the scratch to
>> buy it next week
>
> Way cool.  Does that mean I should go ahead and send you the reg code, 
> or
> would you be too busy until then to use it anyway?
>
> Keep me posted if I can be of service -
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Jul 15 19:19:00 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Jul 15 19:19:00 2003
Subject: MC "hand" when command-double-clicking stack
In-Reply-To: <012e01c34b1f$6cfcebd0$58bfef84@rkhpc1>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCEBHDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>
> When command-double-clicking a Rev stack on the desktop to open
> the stack in
> Player environment, the hand cursor that appears (here at least) is
> MetaCard's, not Rev's, and the font size in the answer stack is the larger
> MC default size, not the smaller Rev size.  Apparently the Rev cursor and
> default font sizes get applied to Player environment during the standalone
> build process at some point.
>
> Does anyone have an explanation of what is going on?
>
Yes... you. Just above.

Rev has a Suspend IDE menu option for testing.

Regards

Monte



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Jul 15 19:29:00 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Jul 15 19:29:00 2003
Subject: hypertext and "hand" cursor
In-Reply-To: <07A75452-B705-11D7-9C52-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEBHDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>
> It seems that Rev's normal cursor handling doesn't switch between an
> arrow and a hand for hypertext. Here is a way I came up with.
>

Hi Alex

Take a look at altCursor from Chipp and libCursor from me:
http:/www.sweattechnologies.com/rev

altCursor uses a better method and I've actually modified libCursor to use
that method but have not released it because it's so similar to altCursor.

It also handles a number of other situations like showing the hand on a
button etc.

Cheers

Monte



From bornstein at designeq.com  Tue Jul 15 23:23:01 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Tue Jul 15 23:23:01 2003
Subject: hypertext and "hand" cursor
Message-ID: <200307160415.h6G4Fgs4005856@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>

>on mouseEnter
>   if the textStyle of the target = "link" then
>     set the cursor to hand
>     lock cursor
>   end if
>   pass mouseEnter
>end mouseEnter
>
>on mouseLeave
>    if the textStyle of the target = "link" then
>     set the cursor to the defaultCursor
>     unlock cursor
>   end if
>   pass mouseLeave
>end mouseLeave

I have hyperlinks in many fields throughout my applications, so rather 
than putting these handlers in every field, I use one handler in the 
stack script:

on checkforLink
  if the mousechunk contains "field" then
    if the textstyle of the mousechunk = "Link" then
      set the cursor to hand
      lock cursor
    else
      set the cursor to arrow
      lock cursor
    end if
  end if
  
  send CheckforLink to me in 30 ticks
  
end checkforLink

Regards,

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 16 00:25:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 16 00:25:00 2003
Subject: hypertext and "hand" cursor
In-Reply-To: <200307160415.h6G4Fgs4005856@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <E47CA68A-B74C-11D7-A992-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 10:15  PM, Howard Bornstein wrote:

>> on mouseEnter
>>   if the textStyle of the target = "link" then
>>     set the cursor to hand
>>     lock cursor
>>   end if
>>   pass mouseEnter
>> end mouseEnter
>>
>> on mouseLeave
>>    if the textStyle of the target = "link" then
>>     set the cursor to the defaultCursor
>>     unlock cursor
>>   end if
>>   pass mouseLeave
>> end mouseLeave
>
> I have hyperlinks in many fields throughout my applications, so rather
> than putting these handlers in every field, I use one handler in the
> stack script:

Actually I put the mouseEnter and mouseLeave handlers in a stack script 
so they catch the events from all the fields on all the cards in the 
stack.

> on checkforLink
>   if the mousechunk contains "field" then
>     if the textstyle of the mousechunk = "Link" then
>       set the cursor to hand
>       lock cursor
>     else
>       set the cursor to arrow
>       lock cursor
>     end if
>   end if
>
>   send CheckforLink to me in 30 ticks
>
> end checkforLink

Couple of drawbacks with your method

- never idles
- always locks the cursor so I bet you don't get the ibeam cursor in 
editable fields for example

Thanks for the alternate method though!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 16 00:44:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 16 00:44:00 2003
Subject: hypertext and "hand" cursor
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEBHDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <85A3A3C6-B74F-11D7-A992-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 06:21  PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> Take a look at altCursor from Chipp and libCursor from me:
> http:/www.sweattechnologies.com/rev
>
> altCursor uses a better method and I've actually modified libCursor to 
> use
> that method but have not released it because it's so similar to 
> altCursor.
>
> It also handles a number of other situations like showing the hand on a
> button etc.

altCursorLib looks like a good solution! Thanks Monte, and Chipp

Couple of questions though

1) The altCursorLib script has this handler. Was it left in there by 
mistake?

on mouseLeave
   pass mouseLeave
end mouseLeave

2) The Instructions card says "You should see an Ibeam cursor over this 
field," but since the fld is locked the ibeam doesn't appear. Confusing 
for about 1 sec until one notices the "lock field" at the bottom of the 
Instructions card :-)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Jul 16 01:04:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Jul 16 01:04:01 2003
Subject: hypertext and "hand" cursor
In-Reply-To: <85A3A3C6-B74F-11D7-A992-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOEBLDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Hi Alex

My current libCursor implementation is as follows:

on mouseMove
  if the tool is "browse tool" then
    put word 1 of the target into targetType
    switch targetType
    case "button"
      set the defaultcursor to hand
      break
    case "player"
      set the defaultcursor to hand
      break
    case "field"
      if the lockText of the target is true then
        if the mouseChunk <> "" then
          if "link" is among the items of the textstyle of the mouseChunk
then
            set the defaultcursor to hand
          end if
        else
          set the defaultcursor to arrow
        end if
      end if
      break
    default
      set the defaultcursor to arrow
    end switch
  end if
  pass mouseMove
end mouseMove

> 1) The altCursorLib script has this handler. Was it left in there by
> mistake?
>
> on mouseLeave
>    pass mouseLeave
> end mouseLeave

It must be as it doesn't do anything. altCursor was based on libCursor and I
originally had a mouseLeave handler in it but it's not neccessary with the
defaultCursor method.
>
> 2) The Instructions card says "You should see an Ibeam cursor over this
> field," but since the fld is locked the ibeam doesn't appear. Confusing
> for about 1 sec until one notices the "lock field" at the bottom of the
> Instructions card :-)

Just that your lucky stars that Chipp takes the time to develop demo stakcs
for his libraries. I hardly ever do that. If you want to see a really
impressive demo stack for a library wait for Dar's box library ;-)

Oops, hope I didn't let any cats out of bags then ;-)

Cheers

Monte



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 16 01:11:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 16 01:11:00 2003
Subject: textStyle link
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEBHDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <48DAE05D-B753-11D7-A992-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 06:21  PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>
> altCursor uses a better method and I've actually modified libCursor to 
> use
> that method but have not released it because it's so similar to 
> altCursor.

On other question. I had to add another condition here, to check the 
style of the target, to get my links to work.

if "link" is among the items of the textStyle of the target or \
   "link" is among the items of the textstyle of the mouseChunk then
   set the defaultcursor to hand
end if

The Rev docs say that

"""The ?link? style can be used only for chunks of a field, not for 
objects. Setting the textStyle of a chunk to ?link? turns it into a 
text group."""

But I'm using it on entire fld objects not chunks, and it works. What 
am I not grokking about textStyle and links?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Jul 16 01:33:00 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Jul 16 01:33:00 2003
Subject: textStyle link
In-Reply-To: <48DAE05D-B753-11D7-A992-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHMEBMDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>
> The Rev docs say that
>
> """The ?link? style can be used only for chunks of a field, not for
> objects. Setting the textStyle of a chunk to ?link? turns it into a
> text group."""
>
> But I'm using it on entire fld objects not chunks, and it works. What
> am I not grokking about textStyle and links?
>
Sounds like a documentation bug? Jeanne?

A better fix would be:

if "link" is among the items of the effective textstyle of the mouseChunk
then
   set the defaultcursor to hand
end if

Regards

Monte



From threemanifold at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 02:42:01 2003
From: threemanifold at yahoo.com (Peterson Trethewey)
Date: Wed Jul 16 02:42:01 2003
Subject: Movie with a mask?
Message-ID: <20030716073438.7408.qmail@web80601.mail.yahoo.com>

I need to play a movie with a mask, like a clip
region, or an alpha channel.  I figured out how to do
this sort of thing with a picture, but movies are
totally different.  Is it possible to tell a player to
do this?

Thanks,
Peterson


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Wed Jul 16 03:00:00 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Wed Jul 16 03:00:00 2003
Subject: file permission problems with running runrev on Mac OS X
Message-ID: <20030716140128.1A02.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

Am I the only person who does most work on Mac OS X as a non-admin user?

(I'm sure I just didn't go back far enough in the archives to see an
answer for this.)

Logged in as the user that I installed runrev as, runrev runs.

Logged in as another user, runrev starts up and gives me the application
menu (second from left) and then just sits there. Now file menu, no edit
menu, no splash screen, no "do you agree to the license?" dialog,
nothing. I can quit from the application menu. There is no visible
response to any other item in the application menu.

I thought this had to do with not installing runrev in the applications
folder, or with not being the primary admin user when I installed it. So
I tried installing into the applications folder (/Applications/dev,
actually) as the primary admin. Same thing. Changing the owner and
permissions to match those in the pre-installed applications doesn't
seem to change anything.

Is this something I just have to live with? In other words, do I just
have to rip it out and re-install while logged in as the dev user?

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul 16 03:00:17 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul 16 03:00:17 2003
Subject: Movie with a mask?
In-Reply-To: <20030716073438.7408.qmail@web80601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB3A5240.30BAE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Peterson Trethewey wrote:

> I need to play a movie with a mask, like a clip
> region, or an alpha channel.  I figured out how to do
> this sort of thing with a picture, but movies are
> totally different.  Is it possible to tell a player to
> do this?

Yes: set the alwaysbuffer of the player to true, then lay any masked image
over the player.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From DVGlasgow at aol.com  Wed Jul 16 03:15:00 2003
From: DVGlasgow at aol.com (DVGlasgow at aol.com)
Date: Wed Jul 16 03:15:00 2003
Subject: conditions of use
Message-ID: <15c.20ec23d3.2c4661ec@aol.com>

Listers,

Does anyone know anything about legal disclaimers and conditions of use of 
software?  Most of the things we see are written in American legalese and make 
no sense to anyone, I suspect not even the lawyers who draft them.  

Is there any *plain English* guidance for British software developers who 
want to make explicit the conditions of use and limit liability? 


Best wishes,

David Glasgow
Home/ forensic assessments --> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/dvglasgow/">
DVGlasgow </A>
Courses --> <A HREF="http://www.i-Psych.co.uk">i-Psych</A>


From vikramsingh at mailandnews.com  Wed Jul 16 03:56:00 2003
From: vikramsingh at mailandnews.com (Vikram Singh)
Date: Wed Jul 16 03:56:00 2003
Subject: Movie with a mask?
Message-ID: <3F155B06@mailandnews.com>

You can manipulate the clip using QT Pro beforehand and then display in a 
player in the stack.

Rgds
Vikram

>===== Original Message From Peterson Trethewey <threemanifold at yahoo.com> 
=====
>I need to play a movie with a mask, like a clip
>region, or an alpha channel.  I figured out how to do
>this sort of thing with a picture, but movies are
>totally different.  Is it possible to tell a player to
>do this?
>
>Thanks,
>Peterson
>



From zellner at neo.tamu.edu  Wed Jul 16 04:29:00 2003
From: zellner at neo.tamu.edu (Ronald Zellner)
Date: Wed Jul 16 04:29:00 2003
Subject: Background graphic
In-Reply-To: <200307160505.BAA12291@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307160505.BAA12291@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <v04210100bb3ac3385b9f@[165.91.13.22]>

OK, I've read the documentation and past postings on backgrounds and 
I still find it confusing.  All I want is to have a large graphic 
appear behind the objects on all of my cards.  I don't want to have 
an image on each card as it uses too much memory.

I imported the image and then set it as the background for a card. 
This almost worked, but the image began tiling over itself before 
filling the card;  about 60% of the graphic was repeated several 
times over the card.  The graphic is a png file from Photoshop.  Any 
suggestions?

Ron


From switchedon at hsj.com  Wed Jul 16 07:14:00 2003
From: switchedon at hsj.com (Bill Lynn)
Date: Wed Jul 16 07:14:00 2003
Subject: Default Buttons in OS X
In-Reply-To: <200211211547.KAA16530@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EEA6735A-B785-11D7-BADF-00039374AB8C@hsj.com>

I'm sure this question has been asked and answered but please indulge 
me a moment. In Rev 2.0.1 under Jaguar I'm noticing a gray rectangle 
around blue throbbing default buttons. Is there any way to get rid of 
it?

Cheers... Bill Lynn
Simtech Publications



From curry at pair.com  Wed Jul 16 08:01:00 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Wed Jul 16 08:01:00 2003
Subject: Arrow keys in Rev are evil
In-Reply-To: <200307160505.BAA12344@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307160505.BAA12344@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb3ae314ac89@[68.86.46.40]>

It's true....

When making a game, I noticed that the background music (played by QT 
players) dropped out when I started playing and moved the character. 
I was puzzled, and finally noticed that when a sound played at 
exactly the same time as the music started, it didn't drop out, so I 
used that as a workaround--playing a small sound whenever I started 
music.

But later, when I was working on other parts of the game--intro and 
menu screens--I noticed that music would drop out there too if the 
arrow key was held down. I put it on my list of issues to try to 
figure out when I got time. That's been several weeks ago.

Finally today, it all came together and I realized what was going on. 
The QT players are interpreting the arrow keys (when held down for a 
moment) as a fast forward and rewind.

But to show how devious it is--the QT players were not on the active 
card. They were in a separate (and invisible) window which was not 
active. Furthermore, the QT player can have the controller turned off 
and keyboard focusable turned off, and it *still* happens! The only 
way I found to avoid it is to hide the player object. (And I think it 
only happens when you use the browse tool.)

Is this behavior due to Revolution or Apple? (If it's a Rev behavior, 
I would seriously suggest changing it to only affect the player if 
the window is active, and perhaps also only if the controller is 
shown.)

Today I was amazed to find that arrow keys were also stopping an 
animation and found out that holding down arrow keys can stop 
handlers cold that are using "wait...with messages." It happens when 
navigationArrows are turned off, unless you trap arrowkey messages. 
It looks like the Rev IDE scripts may cause it; it didn't happen for 
me when I tried it with the engine only. I'll enter this in the 
bugzilla when I get to it, and in the meantime here's a demo stack in 
case anyone wants to see how it may affect a handler and avoid it:

http://www25.pair.com/curry/evilarrows.rev.hqx

(I didn't make a demo stack for the QT player issue because it's 
pretty easy to test--just set a player up to play a MIDI file.)

I'm getting to dread arrow keys.... Why are they so cursed in Rev?

Seriously though, the QT thing was a headache because although the 
solution is simple in the end, tracking it down is difficult because 
of such unexpected behavior. The wait drop-out is pretty surprising 
too, but I was lucky that I had just turned off navigation arrows 
when I noticed it--if I had them on before making the animation, I 
probably would have never figure it out. I sincerely hope that's all 
the arrow key issues I run up against for a while! I hope I can save 
somebody going through the same thing.

Whew...

Curry


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul 16 08:14:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul 16 08:14:00 2003
Subject: Background graphic
In-Reply-To: <v04210100bb3ac3385b9f@[165.91.13.22]>
Message-ID: <65B07C12-B78E-11D7-A77E-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Ronald,

> OK, I've read the documentation and past postings on backgrounds and I 
> still find it confusing.
> All I want is to have a large graphic appear behind the objects on all 
> of my cards.
> I don't want to have an image on each card as it uses too much memory.
>
> I imported the image and then set it as the background for a card.
> This almost worked, but the image began tiling over itself before 
> filling
> the card;  about 60% of the graphic was repeated several times over 
> the card.
> The graphic is a png file from Photoshop.  Any suggestions?

Hmm, sounds like you set the backgroundpattern of the stack/card to 
that image?

Anyway, you can import that image (or reference it to the original 
file) and then group!!!
that single image, set the backgroundbehaviour for that grp to true, 
set its layer to 1
and place that grp on every card you like.

This way that image is only physically present (?) once but can be 
displayed on any
card you like...

Hope that helps.

> Ron

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From dottorzivago at fastwebnet.it  Wed Jul 16 08:31:00 2003
From: dottorzivago at fastwebnet.it (Dottor Zivago)
Date: Wed Jul 16 08:31:00 2003
Subject: Date calculations - big thank you
Message-ID: <BB3B1E8D.18F%dottorzivago@fastwebnet.it>

Hi Sean,
Thank you for your input. I have tried your suggestion and it works!!!

Sarah,
Your code works very well too!!!
I have downloaded your calendar stack and it is very nice and usefull.
Two questions for you:
- is it possible (without too much work) to have Monday as the first day of
week?
- I would like to show national holidays in different colours; is there an
easy way for a beginner to do this?

Thank you very much for your kind suggestions and sorry for my English.
Ciao from Italy
Ubaldo

PS "check that it is giving sensible answers before
telling people when their baby is due :-) "
As an obstetrician, the first thing you learn is that you can never trust
"LMP" of women; better dating pregnancy by ultrasound :-)




From steve at messimercomputing.com  Wed Jul 16 08:36:00 2003
From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Stephen Messimer)
Date: Wed Jul 16 08:36:00 2003
Subject: EDD calc
In-Reply-To: <200307152120.RAA03805@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7BA0F210-B791-11D7-950D-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>

Ubaldo.

This solution requires two fields and one button.  No persistent 
storage container is required to hold the gestation info other than the 
button script.  You could store this information in a field or custom 
prop but that really isn't necessary.

Try this ...

Create a field "LMP" for the user to type the LMP into.

Create a button "EDD"

Now go to the button's script and type"

on mouseUp
-- convert 280 days to seconds (60*60*24*280 = 24192000) for calculation
   put 24192000 into gest
   put fld "LMP" into lmpCalc
   convert lmpCalc to seconds
   add lmpCalc to gest
-- now convert seconds back to the date
   convert gest to date
  into fld "EDDFld"
end mouseUp

now create a fld named "EEDFld" to place the calculated EED into.

Hope this helps.

By the way I married an Italian Woman.  So I feel sort of like Familia.

Ciao

Steve

Stephen R. Messimer, PA
208 1st Ave. South	
Escanaba, MI 49829
www.messimercomputing.com



On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 05:20 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Sorry for another basic question to the list but:
> I would like to have a field as a container for a date, then a button 
> that
> performs a calculation on that date and puts the result in another 
> field.
> For instance, for a given LMP (last menstrual period) I need to 
> calculate an
> EDD (estimated date of delivery) that is simply LMP+280 (and this is 
> what I
> do in Excel or FileMaker).
> Pleeeease, assume an IQ<=40; some lines to cut and paste between "on
> mouseup" and "end mouseup" would be very very appreciated.
> Thank you very much
> Ciao
> Ubaldo
>



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Jul 16 08:45:00 2003
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed Jul 16 08:45:00 2003
Subject: Arrow keys in Rev are evil
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00bb3ae314ac89@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <C210C456-B792-11D7-884A-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 08:52  AM, curry wrote:

> It's true....
>
> When making a game, I noticed that the background music (played by QT 
> players) dropped out when I started playing and moved the character. I 
> was puzzled, and finally noticed that when a sound played at exactly 
> the same time as the music started, it didn't drop out, so I used that 
> as a workaround--playing a small sound whenever I started music.
>
> ...
> Curry
>

Curry,

Did you try trapping for the arrow key at the stack level?

I found I had to intercept the arrow key messages or Rev
thought I wanted to advance to the next card.  Trapping
the message first fixed the problem.

Rick Harrison




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 16 08:56:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 16 08:56:01 2003
Subject: conditions of use
In-Reply-To: <15c.20ec23d3.2c4661ec@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3440BEA8-B794-11D7-AE34-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 02:08  AM, DVGlasgow at aol.com wrote:

> Listers,
>
> Does anyone know anything about legal disclaimers and conditions of 
> use of
> software?  Most of the things we see are written in American legalese 
> and make
> no sense to anyone, I suspect not even the lawyers who draft them.
>
> Is there any *plain English* guidance for British software developers 
> who
> want to make explicit the conditions of use and limit liability?

Just write what you are thinking the license should be, in plain 
English :-)

I think the main points you should cover are

- you claim ownership and copyright over the source code and/or software
- you grant a limited license to the user for particular uses and 
purposes
- the user indemnifies you from damages and legal complaints
- the user accepts the license by acknowledging the license text and 
using the software

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Jul 16 09:02:02 2003
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed Jul 16 09:02:02 2003
Subject: Arrow keys in Rev are evil
Message-ID: <OF7A5D7155.1EDD6AC3-ON85256D65.004B9F2D@sealedair.com>

Check out the navigationArrows property.

"Specifies whether the arrow keys move from card to card."
set the navigationArrows to {true | false}

Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com

>> It's true....
>>
>> When making a game, I noticed that the background music (played by QT
>> players) dropped out when I started playing and moved the character. I
>> was puzzled, and finally noticed that when a sound played at exactly
>> the same time as the music started, it didn't drop out, so I used that
>> as a workaround--playing a small sound whenever I started music.
>>
>> ...
>> Curry
>>

> Curry,
> 
> Did you try trapping for the arrow key at the stack level?
> 
> I found I had to intercept the arrow key messages or Rev
> thought I wanted to advance to the next card.  Trapping
> the message first fixed the problem.
> 
> Rick Harrison


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Jul 16 09:11:00 2003
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed Jul 16 09:11:00 2003
Subject: Arrow keys in Rev are evil
In-Reply-To: <OF7A5D7155.1EDD6AC3-ON85256D65.004B9F2D@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <64638A3A-B796-11D7-884A-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 09:49  AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com 
wrote:

> Check out the navigationArrows property.
>
> "Specifies whether the arrow keys move from card to card."
> set the navigationArrows to {true | false}
>
> Roger Eller

Roger,

Good point. I think I did that a little later.
It's been awhile since I had to deal
with the issue.  Thanks for the reminder!

Rick Harrison



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul 16 09:17:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul 16 09:17:01 2003
Subject: Date calculations - big thank you
In-Reply-To: <BB3B1E8D.18F%dottorzivago@fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <AA8445BE-B797-11D7-B7BB-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le mercredi, 16 juil 2003, ? 15:23 Europe/Brussels, Dottor Zivago a 
?crit :

>
Hi,

do you want dates in European format : dd/mm/yyyy  for your 
calculations ?

so, you need to tuse the systemdate ??
I can help you if necessary.

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul 16 09:22:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul 16 09:22:00 2003
Subject: Default Buttons in OS X
In-Reply-To: <EEA6735A-B785-11D7-BADF-00039374AB8C@hsj.com>
Message-ID: <531251E8-B798-11D7-B7BB-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le mercredi, 16 juil 2003, ? 14:06 Europe/Brussels, Bill Lynn a ?crit :

> I'm sure this question has been asked and answered but please indulge 
> me a moment. In Rev 2.0.1 under Jaguar I'm noticing a gray rectangle 
> around blue throbbing default buttons. Is there any way to get rid of 
> it?
>
> Cheers... Bill Lynn
> Simtech Publications
>
> _______________________________________________
>

I've discussed this problem before and someone (I think Alex Rice or 
Sarah) gave me the answer
I had the same and if you build your app, the rectangle will be black 
(horror !)

you have a Tabbed btn in the background. Your btn must be out of the 
tabbed btn
If you want a "striped" mac OS X bg, look in the image library, at the 
bottom row, the 3th column : you can set the bgpatterin of your cd (or 
your stack) to the ID of this image.


cheers
Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From curry at pair.com  Wed Jul 16 09:44:01 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Wed Jul 16 09:44:01 2003
Subject: Arrow keys in Rev are evil
In-Reply-To: <200307161303.JAA20323@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307161303.JAA20323@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb3b10d770f3@[68.86.46.40]>

>Curry,
>
>Did you try trapping for the arrow key at the stack level?
>
>I found I had to intercept the arrow key messages or Rev
>thought I wanted to advance to the next card.  Trapping
>the message first fixed the problem.
>
>Rick Harrison

Yeah, that's something to look out for too, but a different issue. It 
won't affect the behavior of the QT players.

Curry


From zellner at neo.tamu.edu  Wed Jul 16 09:49:01 2003
From: zellner at neo.tamu.edu (Ronald Zellner)
Date: Wed Jul 16 09:49:01 2003
Subject: Background graphic
In-Reply-To: <200307160505.BAA12291@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307160505.BAA12291@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <v04210102bb3b10f69fa7@[165.91.13.22]>

OK,  I went back to  the basics and used the grouping of objects and 
then used the "Place group" menu item- and that seems to do the trick 
as advertised! (I  made a group out of only one object, the image). 
Sorry for the false alarm.

Ron


From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul 16 10:13:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul 16 10:13:01 2003
Subject: Disappearing substack...
Message-ID: <200307161506.h6GF63r02571@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

I'm running into a very strange problem. The "Help" stack of a project I am working on keeps disappearing. It's a substack, and nothing else seems to be afffected. Because I am stupid, this means that I have so far had to re-write the help section twice, since I have been saving frequently, but didn't make a back-up copy after finishing it (I am now using Chipp's archiver religiously!).

My question is this - what the heck is happening!?!? At first I thought that maybe I had accidently used a "delete stack" command someplace, but searching the scripts doesn't find anything. Neither does searching for "clear stack".

Are there any other synonyms for "Delete Stack" that I am missing? Is there any way to detect that a stack is being deleted so I can trap that when it happens and trace this down? Is there anything else that anyone can thing of that could be doing this? It's really irritating. 


From shaosean at unitz.ca  Wed Jul 16 10:22:00 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Wed Jul 16 10:22:00 2003
Subject: Date calculations - big thank you
Message-ID: <200307161514.LAA31932@bright.unitz.ca>

> Thank you for your input. I have tried your suggestion and
not a problem..


> I have downloaded your calendar stack and it is very nice
> and usefull. Two questions for you:
unlike sarah, i forgot to "plug" my calendar object ;-) 
(http://shaosean.tk/) 


> - is it possible (without too much work) to have Monday as
> the first day of week?
this was a feature request with my calendar and i should
actually put it in (i believe it was an extra line of
code)..


> - I would like to show national holidays in different
> colours; is there an easy way for a beginner to do this?
nice idea =)


-Sean


From dottorzivago at fastwebnet.it  Wed Jul 16 10:42:00 2003
From: dottorzivago at fastwebnet.it (Dottor Zivago)
Date: Wed Jul 16 10:42:00 2003
Subject: Date calculation
Message-ID: <BB3B3D3D.192%dottorzivago@fastwebnet.it>

Ciao Steve,
Thank you for your suggestion!
I have visited your site and seen we share some interests (Filemaker, Palm
computers and guitars).
Since you married an Italian women I hope we can meet in Italy (I live in
Genoa, north-west Italy); ever seen Portofino?
http://www.comune.portofino.genova.it/English/
Ancora ciao
Ubaldo

Hi Yves,
I am trying to learn revolution; I think I have understood the use of
"usesystemdate".
I will certainly ask if I have any doubt.
Thamk you for your reply
Ubaldo



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 16 10:43:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 16 10:43:00 2003
Subject: Disappearing substack...
In-Reply-To: <200307161506.h6GF63r02571@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <41A8EFEC-B7A3-11D7-8B30-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 12:06  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> I'm running into a very strange problem. The "Help" stack of a project 
> I am working on keeps disappearing. It's a substack, and nothing else 
> seems to be afffected. Because I am stupid, this means that I have so 
> far had to re-write the help section twice, since I have been saving 
> frequently, but didn't make a back-up copy after finishing it (I am 
> now using Chipp's archiver religiously!).
>
> My question is this - what the heck is happening!?!? At first I 
> thought that maybe I had accidently used a "delete stack" command 
> someplace, but searching the scripts doesn't find anything. Neither 
> does searching for "clear stack".
>
> Are there any other synonyms for "Delete Stack" that I am missing? Is 
> there any way to detect that a stack is being deleted so I can trap 
> that when it happens and trace this down? Is there anything else that 
> anyone can thing of that could be doing this? It's really irritating.
>

Edwin, is it possible you have another mainstack with a substack of the 
same name, and opening the mainstacks at the same time, effectively 
having two substacks of the same name open at once? I've filed a bug 
report involving this issue.

Bugzilla Bug 143
	  	naming collisions w/ open substacks having same name
--

Here's the scenario

create mainstack 1
add substack and rename to "fu"
create mainstack 2
add substack
-- now try to rename substack to "fu" with the inspector tool. 
-- name reverts to "Untitled x"
-- (that's already repeatable)

(next issue)

save both mainstacks
close mainstack 1
rename substack of mainstack 2 to substack "fu"
save and close mainstack 2
open mainstack 1
open mainstack 2
-- now you have two substack "fu"s open
-- do work in ide
-- save and close mainstack 1
-- reopen mainstack 1 now it is missing substack "fu"
-- The do work in ide seems to be key here. It's not always repeatable.



Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From cm_sheffield at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 10:43:12 2003
From: cm_sheffield at yahoo.com (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Wed Jul 16 10:43:12 2003
Subject: variables, arrays, or custom properties
Message-ID: <20030716153531.91876.qmail@web20413.mail.yahoo.com>

Just a quick, and probably basic, question.  I have a
stack that is going to make use of quite a bit of
different data, and I'm wondering what is the best to
use out of regular variables (many of them will have
to be globals), arrays, or custom properties.  Most of
this data will be read in from a database, manipulated
in different ways, and then written back to the
database.  Is one of these methods better than
another?  Is there something that will give me a
"shortcut" so to speak in regards to reading and
writing database records?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,



=====
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
www.readnaturally.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From rja46 at cam.ac.uk  Wed Jul 16 10:58:01 2003
From: rja46 at cam.ac.uk (Richard Adams)
Date: Wed Jul 16 10:58:01 2003
Subject: matchchunk
Message-ID: <3EEDBFBE-B7A5-11D7-A849-003065B78CEC@cam.ac.uk>

Dear All,

put "abcdefg"& return & "hijk" into a
put 1 into b
put 1 into c
put matchchunk(a, "def", b,c) into x
put b && c && x

Gives '  true'

	I cannot work out what I am doing wrong here. I want to find the 
location of matched text in a list but I do not get values returned. I 
am sure there is a simple solution. Suggestions?

Many thanks, Richard.


-- 
Richard J Adams              e: rja46 at cam.ac.uk
Department of Anatomy        t: +44 1223 333782
University of Cambridge      f: +44 1223 333786
Downing Street
Cambridge, CB2 3DY
UK



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul 16 10:58:29 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul 16 10:58:29 2003
Subject: variables, arrays, or custom properties
In-Reply-To: <20030716153531.91876.qmail@web20413.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB3AC239.30C07%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Chris Sheffield wrote:

> Just a quick, and probably basic, question.  I have a
> stack that is going to make use of quite a bit of
> different data, and I'm wondering what is the best to
> use out of regular variables (many of them will have
> to be globals), arrays, or custom properties.  Most of
> this data will be read in from a database, manipulated
> in different ways, and then written back to the
> database.  Is one of these methods better than
> another?  Is there something that will give me a
> "shortcut" so to speak in regards to reading and
> writing database records?
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.

The biggest differences between arrays and chunks seem to be that arrays are
significantly faster for obtaining single records, while one large block of
delimited text is faster (25-35%) for operations involving walking through
the entire data set.

So depending on what you're doing the "best" solution will vary.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul 16 11:05:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul 16 11:05:00 2003
Subject: Disappearing substack...
Message-ID: <200307161557.h6GFvrc20114@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

By george, I think you've got it! 

Each time that this has happened, it was when I was working on integrating altBrowser stuff into my project, and I had my project and the altBrowser project open at the same time. Altbrowser has a substack named "Help".

I'm guessing that this is the problem. So it's Chipp's fault! (just kidding Chipp!)

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Alex Rice 
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:36:23
>
>
>On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 12:06	PM, Edwin
>Gore wrote:
>
>> I'm running into a very strange problem. The
>"Help" stack of a project 
>> I am working on keeps disappearing. It's a
>substack, and nothing else 
>> seems to be afffected. Because I am stupid, this
>means that I have so 
>> far had to re-write the help section twice, since
>I have been saving 
>> frequently, but didn't make a back-up copy after
>finishing it (I am 
>> now using Chipp's archiver religiously!).
>>
>> My question is this - what the heck is
>happening!?!? At first I 
>> thought that maybe I had accidently used a
>"delete stack" command 
>> someplace, but searching the scripts doesn't find
>anything. Neither 
>> does searching for "clear stack".
>>
>> Are there any other synonyms for "Delete Stack"
>that I am missing? Is 
>> there any way to detect that a stack is being
>deleted so I can trap 
>> that when it happens and trace this down? Is
>there anything else that 
>> anyone can thing of that could be doing this?
>It's really irritating.
>>
>
>Edwin, is it possible you have another mainstack
>with a substack of the 
>same name, and opening the mainstacks at the same
>time, effectively 
>having two substacks of the same name open at once?
>I've filed a bug 
>report involving this issue.
>
>Bugzilla Bug 143
>		 naming collisions w/ open substacks
>having same name
>--
>
>Here's the scenario
>
>create mainstack 1
>add substack and rename to "fu"
>create mainstack 2
>add substack
>-- now try to rename substack to "fu" with the
>inspector tool. 
>-- name reverts to "Untitled x"
>-- (that's already repeatable)
>
>(next issue)
>
>save both mainstacks
>close mainstack 1
>rename substack of mainstack 2 to substack "fu"
>save and close mainstack 2
>open mainstack 1
>open mainstack 2
>-- now you have two substack "fu"s open
>-- do work in ide
>-- save and close mainstack 1
>-- reopen mainstack 1 now it is missing substack
>"fu"
>-- The do work in ide seems to be key here. It's
>not always repeatable.
>
>
>
>Alex Rice, Software Developer
>Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
>http://ARCplanning.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 16 11:18:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 16 11:18:00 2003
Subject: Disappearing substack...
In-Reply-To: <200307161557.h6GFvrc20114@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <1601BCAD-B7A8-11D7-8B30-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 12:57  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> By george, I think you've got it!
>
> Each time that this has happened, it was when I was working on 
> integrating altBrowser stuff into my project, and I had my project and 
> the altBrowser project open at the same time. Altbrowser has a 
> substack named "Help".
>
> I'm guessing that this is the problem. So it's Chipp's fault! (just 
> kidding Chipp!)

Thanks for confirming.
For me this was one of those "Am I going crazy or should I bug report 
it?" kind of things :-)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Wed Jul 16 11:20:00 2003
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed Jul 16 11:20:00 2003
Subject: Default Buttons in OS X
In-Reply-To: <EEA6735A-B785-11D7-BADF-00039374AB8C@hsj.com>
Message-ID: <4BB06756-B7A8-11D7-B934-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 05:06 AM, Bill Lynn wrote:

> I'm sure this question has been asked and answered but please indulge 
> me a moment. In Rev 2.0.1 under Jaguar I'm noticing a gray rectangle 
> around blue throbbing default buttons. Is there any way to get rid of 
> it?
>
>

If your background color is anything but "clear", then you can not have 
a default button overlap another object.



Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul 16 11:20:17 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul 16 11:20:17 2003
Subject: matchchunk
In-Reply-To: <3EEDBFBE-B7A5-11D7-A849-003065B78CEC@cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <5D605862-B7A8-11D7-8635-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 09:50 AM, Richard Adams wrote:

> 	I cannot work out what I am doing wrong here. I want to find the 
> location of matched text in a list but I do not get values returned. I 
> am sure there is a simple solution. Suggestions?

I usually use matchText, but I expect matchChunk is much the same.

You need to put parentheses around the parts you want to include in 
variable char indexes.

Dar Scott



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul 16 11:30:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul 16 11:30:01 2003
Subject: Disappearing substack...
In-Reply-To: <200307161557.h6GFvrc20114@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <BB3AC9CA.30C14%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Edwin Gore wrote:

> By george, I think you've got it!
> 
> Each time that this has happened, it was when I was working on integrating
> altBrowser stuff into my project, and I had my project and the altBrowser
> project open at the same time. Altbrowser has a substack named "Help".
> 
> I'm guessing that this is the problem

This reminds me of a habit I use that may be useful to others:

Stacks have bth a name and a title property.  When the title is empty, the
stack title is drawn with an asterisk (or followed by the card number if
more than one card).  To regain control over the appearance of the window
title I almost always use the stack's title property, which has one other
advantage:  I can now name the stack anything I want without affecting its
appearance.

Since stack names are used for identification, and because they can cause
conflicts when other stacks are present with the same name, I've found it
useful to use descriptive abbreviations for stack names, things like
"wmProgress" for the WebMerge progress window.  This makes it easy to
identify in a stack listing tool and is far less likely to run into name
space conflicts.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul 16 11:30:21 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul 16 11:30:21 2003
Subject: Disappearing substack...
Message-ID: <200307161623.h6GGNEq29300@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Well, one good thing is coming out of it. In order to avoid running into the problem again (and rewriting the 200K help section AGAIN!!!!), I am breaking most of my substacks out into mainstacks in a subfolder and calling them from my main stack. I would have had to do this at some point in order to facilitate easier updating over the internet anyway. I just have to remember to password protect all of them before distributing.

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Alex Rice
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:10:58
>
>
>On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 12:57	PM, Edwin
>Gore wrote:
>
>> By george, I think you've got it!
>>
>> Each time that this has happened, it was when I
>was working on 
>> integrating altBrowser stuff into my project, and
>I had my project and 
>> the altBrowser project open at the same time.
>Altbrowser has a 
>> substack named "Help".
>>
>> I'm guessing that this is the problem. So it's
>Chipp's fault! (just 
>> kidding Chipp!)
>
>Thanks for confirming.
>For me this was one of those "Am I going crazy or
>should I bug report 
>it?" kind of things :-)
>
>Alex Rice, Software Developer
>Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
>http://ARCplanning.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Jul 16 11:40:01 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Jul 16 11:40:01 2003
Subject: matchchunk
In-Reply-To: <3EEDBFBE-B7A5-11D7-A849-003065B78CEC@cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <BB3AE7F3.1654%kray@sonsothunder.com>

Richard,

You need to pass variables to hold the start/end chunk in the matchChunk
command (they don't need to have a value), but the regular expression needs
to have parentheses around the value you want to look for so it can
"extract" its location into the two variables. Like this:

on mouseUp
  local b,c
  put "abcdefg" & return & "hijk" into a
  put matchchunk(a, "(def)", b, c) into x
  put b && c && x
end mouseUp

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


> From:     Richard Adams <rja46 at cam.ac.uk>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:50:38 +0100
> To:     use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: matchchunk
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> put "abcdefg"& return & "hijk" into a
> put 1 into b
> put 1 into c
> put matchchunk(a, "def", b,c) into x
> put b && c && x
> 
> Gives '  true'
> 
> I cannot work out what I am doing wrong here. I want to find the
> location of matched text in a list but I do not get values returned. I
> am sure there is a simple solution. Suggestions?
> 
> Many thanks, Richard.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Richard J Adams              e: rja46 at cam.ac.uk
> Department of Anatomy        t: +44 1223 333782
> University of Cambridge      f: +44 1223 333786
> Downing Street
> Cambridge, CB2 3DY
> UK
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Jul 16 12:03:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed Jul 16 12:03:01 2003
Subject: variables, arrays, or custom properties
In-Reply-To: <20030716153531.91876.qmail@web20413.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030716153531.91876.qmail@web20413.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F15839F.1020308@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/16/03 10:35 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote:

> I have a
> stack that is going to make use of quite a bit of
> different data, and I'm wondering what is the best to
> use out of regular variables (many of them will have
> to be globals), arrays, or custom properties.

Or combine two of those methods and use a global variable that contains 
an array. I've had good luck with this approach. Globals provide the 
fastest access of the three methods you mention, and arrays are the 
fastest way to access individual chunks of data. A global array also has 
the advantage of being available to all the scripts in the stack and 
keeps all the information in one tidy container.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From bornstein at designeq.com  Wed Jul 16 15:30:00 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Wed Jul 16 15:30:00 2003
Subject: Embedded fonts
Message-ID: <200307162022.h6GKMeia004912@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>

I just want to confirm something about embedded fonts. Basically you 
can't do it in Rev, correct? (Ok, I believe you can embed fonts on Mac 
systems as resources, but if you want cross-platform compatibility, you 
can't do it).  

So if you create a stack or standalone and want the same typeface to 
appear across platforms, then you have to pick a typeface that's common 
to the platforms you're building for, correct? (Like developing for the 
web).

I'm talking about editable text. I understand you can convert any 
typeface to a graphic and use that anywhere.

But to have compatibility of typefaces across platforms, you either have 
to pick a typeface that's standard for the platforms or get the user to 
install your desired fonts. Is this correct?

Thanks,

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul 16 15:46:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul 16 15:46:00 2003
Subject: Embedded fonts
In-Reply-To: <200307162022.h6GKMeia004912@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BB3B0605.7FC5%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Howard Bornstein"  wrote:

> to have compatibility of typefaces across platforms, you either have
> to pick a typeface that's standard for the platforms or get the user to
> install your desired fonts. Is this correct?

Yes.

Several cross platform font names have been mentioned on the list: Arial,
Verdana, Helvetica (some folks claim they don't have this one), Courier and
probably Times.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul 16 15:53:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul 16 15:53:00 2003
Subject: Embedded fonts
Message-ID: <200307162045.h6GKjYv14277@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

As with most things in Revolution, it's all a matter of how insane you are.

Is this text that needs to be edited by the USER, or by you and by your program. Because that makes a big difference.

If it's just you or your program that need to edit the text, then you could write something that uses Rev's ability to insert graphics into fields to substiture PICTURES of the characters in a font for the characters themselves.

I guess you could probably write something that intercepts the user's typing and puts the font images into the field instead.

Like I said...how crazy are you?

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Howard Bornstein
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:22:39
>
>I just want to confirm something about embedded
>fonts. Basically you 
>can't do it in Rev, correct? (Ok, I believe you can
>embed fonts on Mac 
>systems as resources, but if you want
>cross-platform compatibility, you 
>can't do it).	
>
>So if you create a stack or standalone and want the
>same typeface to 
>appear across platforms, then you have to pick a
>typeface that's common 
>to the platforms you're building for, correct?
>(Like developing for the 
>web).
>
>I'm talking about editable text. I understand you
>can convert any 
>typeface to a graphic and use that anywhere.
>
>But to have compatibility of typefaces across
>platforms, you either have 
>to pick a typeface that's standard for the
>platforms or get the user to 
>install your desired fonts. Is this correct?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Howard Bornstein
>____________________
>D E S I G N  E Q
>www.designeq.com
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Jul 16 16:12:00 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Jul 16 16:12:00 2003
Subject: Embedded fonts
In-Reply-To: <200307162022.h6GKMeia004912@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <006d01c34bdd$d9f82600$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

One possibility is to use QuickTime to play a Flash SWF that has your
editable fields in it (I *think* this will work); Flash will embed the
fonts and Rev can take advantage of it...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Howard Bornstein
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:23 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Embedded fonts
> 
> 
> I just want to confirm something about embedded fonts. Basically you 
> can't do it in Rev, correct? (Ok, I believe you can embed 
> fonts on Mac 
> systems as resources, but if you want cross-platform 
> compatibility, you 
> can't do it).  
> 
> So if you create a stack or standalone and want the same typeface to 
> appear across platforms, then you have to pick a typeface 
> that's common 
> to the platforms you're building for, correct? (Like 
> developing for the 
> web).
> 
> I'm talking about editable text. I understand you can convert any 
> typeface to a graphic and use that anywhere.
> 
> But to have compatibility of typefaces across platforms, you 
> either have 
> to pick a typeface that's standard for the platforms or get 
> the user to 
> install your desired fonts. Is this correct?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Howard Bornstein
> ____________________
> D E S I G N  E Q
> www.designeq.com _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 




From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 16:23:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Wed Jul 16 16:23:00 2003
Subject: Disappearing substack...
In-Reply-To: <BB3AC9CA.30C14%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030716211558.96257.qmail@web20004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:
> This reminds me of a habit I use that may be
> useful to others:
> 
> Stacks have bth a name and a title property. 
> When the title is empty, the
> stack title is drawn with an asterisk (or
> followed by the card number if
> more than one card).  To regain control over
> the appearance of the window
> title I almost always use the stack's title
> property, which has one other
> advantage:  I can now name the stack anything I
> want without affecting its
> appearance.
> 
> Since stack names are used for identification,
> and because they can cause
> conflicts when other stacks are present with
> the same name, I've found it
> useful to use descriptive abbreviations for
> stack names, things like
> "wmProgress" for the WebMerge progress window. 
> This makes it easy to
> identify in a stack listing tool and is far
> less likely to run into name
> space conflicts.

with buttons you have name and label.
you can label a button "60" and name it "b60"
avoiding any confusion with the sixtieth btn.

Erik


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul 16 16:24:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul 16 16:24:00 2003
Subject: Embedded fonts
In-Reply-To: <006d01c34bdd$d9f82600$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <BB3B0EDA.7FCF%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Ken Ray"  wrote:

> One possibility is to use QuickTime to play a Flash SWF that has your
> editable fields in it (I *think* this will work); Flash will embed the
> fonts and Rev can take advantage of it...

This is a very cool idea Ken but can Rev access the field contents if
needed?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Jul 16 16:30:00 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed Jul 16 16:30:00 2003
Subject: Embedded fonts
In-Reply-To: <006d01c34bdd$d9f82600$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-9C1CBE7CB7D311D7B26900039376023C@[192.168.0.4]>

This would work well if you were just getting the text entered into the Flash Track into Rev since you could send DebugStr messages to Rev from the QT movie.  Setting the text of this flash track would be more difficult with Revs current QuickTime support.  A QT movie can request info from Rev if Rev is listening to a port on the localhost or by having Rev write an xml file to the harddrive that QT reads but Rev can't push data to a QT movie.

What would be nice is if Revolution supported sending messages to movies.  QT supports intermovie communication where movies can send messages to each other if the playback environment supports it.  The web plugin, qt player and apps like iShell support this currently.  What would be cool is if Rev could mimic this intermove communication and allow you to send messages to a movie as if Rev was a QT movie.  Then you could have true communication between Rev and QuickTime.

Another useful thing that Rev could support is setting the QTList for a qt movie to use when it opens.  Currently when you embed a qt movie in a web page with the embed/object tag you can specify an xml list in the "MovieQTList" tag.  When the QuickTime movie opens it has access to this xml list and can use the data in it for initialization of the movie.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com

On 7/16/03 Ken Ray wrote

>One possibility is to use QuickTime to play a Flash SWF that has your
>editable fields in it (I *think* this will work); Flash will embed the
>fonts and Rev can take advantage of it...
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 
>


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 16:39:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Wed Jul 16 16:39:00 2003
Subject: variables, arrays, or custom properties
In-Reply-To: <3F15839F.1020308@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <20030716213218.72047.qmail@web20008.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
wrote:
> On 7/16/03 10:35 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote:
> 
> globals), arrays, or custom properties.
> 
> Or combine two of those methods and use a
> global variable that contains 
> an array. I've had good luck with this
> approach. Globals provide the 
> fastest access of the three methods you
> mention, and arrays are the 
> fastest way to access individual chunks of
> data. A global array also has 
> the advantage of being available to all the
> scripts in the stack and 
> keeps all the information in one tidy
> container.

are you getting this array from disk,
making changes, then saving it back to disk?
and is this saving at the end of the session
or as you go? they used to say that globals were
too volatile to rely on very long, so i have
been saving to disk after each change.

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From cm_sheffield at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 17:24:00 2003
From: cm_sheffield at yahoo.com (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Wed Jul 16 17:24:00 2003
Subject: variables, arrays, or custom properties
In-Reply-To: <20030716213218.72047.qmail@web20008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030716221637.27715.qmail@web20416.mail.yahoo.com>

I have been saving to disk after each change.  My main
reason for doing this is because different sections
are bookmarked, and different data is manipulated in
each section.  So after a section has been completed,
the appropriate data is written to the database and
the bookmark is updated.

Chris

--- erik hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> wrote:
> > On 7/16/03 10:35 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote:
> > 
> > globals), arrays, or custom properties.
> > 
> > Or combine two of those methods and use a
> > global variable that contains 
> > an array. I've had good luck with this
> > approach. Globals provide the 
> > fastest access of the three methods you
> > mention, and arrays are the 
> > fastest way to access individual chunks of
> > data. A global array also has 
> > the advantage of being available to all the
> > scripts in the stack and 
> > keeps all the information in one tidy
> > container.
> 
> are you getting this array from disk,
> making changes, then saving it back to disk?
> and is this saving at the end of the session
> or as you go? they used to say that globals were
> too volatile to rely on very long, so i have
> been saving to disk after each change.
> 
> Erik
> 
> =====
> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


=====
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
www.readnaturally.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From switchedon at hsj.com  Wed Jul 16 17:39:00 2003
From: switchedon at hsj.com (Simtech Publications)
Date: Wed Jul 16 17:39:00 2003
Subject: What Gives?
In-Reply-To: <200307161601.MAA00536@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <50FCC74E-B7DD-11D7-95B7-000A959C346E@hsj.com>

I'm just getting back to Rev after a long absence, having fooled around 
too long with Director MX for Mac OS X. Too bad Macromedia has turned 
it's back on Mac users with that stinking lousy piece of beta software. 
Anyway, I'm now running Rev 2.0.1 under OS X v10.2.6 and it's acting 
extremely flakey (Rev not Jaguar). I mean EXTREMELY flakey. At first I 
thought the problems were caused by having imported older Rev 1.1.1 
stacks into Rev 2.0.1 so I spent all day reconstructing one particular 
stack. I'm finding that I can't use any keyboard shortcuts at all. 
None. Can't navigate from the keyboard, can't save the stack from the 
keyboard, can't toggle the message box. Nothing. Nada. This is 
extremely frustrating. I thought it might be my machine at work (an 
older slot loading 300 mHz G3 iMac) so I brought the stack home and the 
same problems occurred on my brand new 1 GHz G4 iMac. I tried both the 
PPC and OS X versions of Rev 2.0.1 with the same results.

Is anyone else having these problems?

My small business license runs out on July 23. I've already deleted 
Director MX from my hard drive. Do I need to do the same with Rev and 
maybe turn to REALBasic? What's a small spftware developer to do?

Cheers... Bill Lynn
Simtech Publications



From bvlahos at mac.com  Wed Jul 16 17:46:00 2003
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Wed Jul 16 17:46:00 2003
Subject: What Gives?
In-Reply-To: <50FCC74E-B7DD-11D7-95B7-000A959C346E@hsj.com>
Message-ID: <44E60486-B7DE-11D7-874A-000393C44AE0@mac.com>

It has been very stable for me on OS X 10.2.6.

Bill Vlahos

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 03:32  PM, Simtech Publications wrote:

> I'm just getting back to Rev after a long absence, having fooled 
> around too long with Director MX for Mac OS X. Too bad Macromedia has 
> turned it's back on Mac users with that stinking lousy piece of beta 
> software. Anyway, I'm now running Rev 2.0.1 under OS X v10.2.6 and 
> it's acting extremely flakey (Rev not Jaguar). I mean EXTREMELY 
> flakey. At first I thought the problems were caused by having imported 
> older Rev 1.1.1 stacks into Rev 2.0.1 so I spent all day 
> reconstructing one particular stack. I'm finding that I can't use any 
> keyboard shortcuts at all. None. Can't navigate from the keyboard, 
> can't save the stack from the keyboard, can't toggle the message box. 
> Nothing. Nada. This is extremely frustrating. I thought it might be my 
> machine at work (an older slot loading 300 mHz G3 iMac) so I brought 
> the stack home and the same problems occurred on my brand new 1 GHz G4 
> iMac. I tried both the PPC and OS X versions of Rev 2.0.1 with the 
> same results.
>
> Is anyone else having these problems?
>
> My small business license runs out on July 23. I've already deleted 
> Director MX from my hard drive. Do I need to do the same with Rev and 
> maybe turn to REALBasic? What's a small spftware developer to do?
>
> Cheers... Bill Lynn
> Simtech Publications
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Wed Jul 16 17:51:00 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Wed Jul 16 17:51:00 2003
Subject: What Gives?
Message-ID: <200307162243.SAA24282@bright.unitz.ca>

> Is anyone else having these problems?
well if the key commands are your only problems, that's not
too bad.. i have those problems as well as the fact that i'm
stuck on a windows xp machine ;-)
i think it was mentioned earlier on the list to go into the
prefs and reset them to the defaults (that should fix the
keyboard navigation)..


> My small business license runs out on July 23. I've
even though your license runs out, your copy of RunRev will
still be a good full-working copy after that date


> already deleted  Director MX from my hard drive. Do I need
anyone else use director back when the company was called
macromind?


> to do the same with Rev and  maybe turn to REALBasic?
i wanted to try out the windows version of RB (i used to use
mac version of RB all the time), but i need to email them
and get a temp serial number and stuff (too many hops for
me)..


> What's a small spftware developer to do?
write software =)


-Sean


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 16 17:57:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 16 17:57:01 2003
Subject: What Gives?
In-Reply-To: <50FCC74E-B7DD-11D7-95B7-000A959C346E@hsj.com>
Message-ID: <D938FFC7-B7DF-11D7-8B30-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 04:32  PM, Simtech Publications wrote:
>
> Is anyone else having these problems?
>
> My small business license runs out on July 23. I've already deleted 
> Director MX from my hard drive. Do I need to do the same with Rev and 
> maybe turn to REALBasic? What's a small spftware developer to do?

Bill, welcome back to Rev. I use Rev 2.0.1 daily on Mac OS X 10.2.6 and 
it does not exhibit any of the behaviors you describe. The only thing I 
can suggest is to read the all of the release notes for Rev 2.0 & 2.0.1 
because there are a fair number of transcript changes- maybe something 
in your stack is getting tripped up there.

See IDE Docs | Development Guide | Developing with Revolution | what's 
new in version 2.x

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Jul 16 18:46:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed Jul 16 18:46:00 2003
Subject: What Gives?
In-Reply-To: <50FCC74E-B7DD-11D7-95B7-000A959C346E@hsj.com>
References: <50FCC74E-B7DD-11D7-95B7-000A959C346E@hsj.com>
Message-ID: <3F15E1F7.3040502@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/16/03 5:32 PM, Simtech Publications wrote:

> I'm finding that I can't use any keyboard shortcuts at all.

Does it also happen when you create a brand new stack? If not, then the 
problem may be a commandkey handler in your older stack.

> Is anyone else having these problems?

No, not at all. I'm running Mac OS 10.2.6 with Rev 2.0.1.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From bornstein at designeq.com  Wed Jul 16 18:57:01 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Wed Jul 16 18:57:01 2003
Subject: Embedded fonts
Message-ID: <200307162349.h6GNngs4009930@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>

>Like I said...how crazy are you?

Uh, not that crazy. But thanks for the idea. ;-)

As for the idea of using QT to show Flash SWF files, this still requires 
Windows users to have QuickTime installed--not always an obvious 
assumption. So if I have to get them to run a QT installer, I might as 
well get them to install the font itself.

Regards,

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From tsj at myriad.its.unimelb.edu.au  Wed Jul 16 19:09:00 2003
From: tsj at myriad.its.unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Wed Jul 16 19:09:00 2003
Subject: Embedded fonts
In-Reply-To: <200307162045.h6GKjYv14277@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
References: <200307162045.h6GKjYv14277@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f00bb3b9654cb4d@[128.250.196.25]>

>As with most things in Revolution, it's all a matter of how insane you are.
>
>Is this text that needs to be edited by the USER, or by you and by 
>your program. Because that makes a big difference.
>
>If it's just you or your program that need to edit the text, then 
>you could write something that uses Rev's ability to insert graphics 
>into fields to substiture PICTURES of the characters in a font for 
>the characters themselves.
>
>I guess you could probably write something that intercepts the 
>user's typing and puts the font images into the field instead.
>
>Like I said...how crazy are you?

If you don't need the text to be editable but would really like to 
use a non-standard font then external PNG files created in Fireworks 
may be an option. Provided you don't compress them - ie just save 
them as 'standard' Fireworks files (Fireworks native format is PNG) - 
then you retain the ability to edit/style the text. Set up Fireworks 
as your external image editor from within Rev to take real advantage 
of this capacity.

Cheers,

Terry...
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
Dr Terry Judd

Lecturer
Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne
Email: t.judd at bmu.unimelb.edu.au
Phone: 03 9344 0187
Fax: 03 9344 4998
___________________________________________________________________________


From curry at pair.com  Wed Jul 16 20:12:00 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Wed Jul 16 20:12:00 2003
Subject: What Gives?
In-Reply-To: <200307162158.RAA08643@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307162158.RAA08643@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb3ba4ef680b@[68.86.46.40]>

I've had a similar problem, but not so big.

Suddenly, for just two or three days, I haven't been able to save by 
the keyboard. I can still toggle the message box. Since it's only 
saving, I'm just using the menu to save and going on ahead with work. 
When I get time or if it gets worse, I'll try resetting prefs or 
whatever and see what happens.

Curry


From herz at ucsd.edu  Wed Jul 16 20:18:00 2003
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Wed Jul 16 20:18:00 2003
Subject: double-clicking stack on desktop
Message-ID: <00b001c34c00$46e37a90$58bfef84@rkhpc1>

Thanks to Jackie and others for suggestion to change "double-clicking stack
on desktop" behavior of Rev stacks to that of MetaCard by renaming
application file.  Here's the details, at least on Windows OS:

I have many "personal" stacks (calendar, database, address) that I, or
family, normally just want to double-click and "use" rather than edit. In
MC, double-clicking a stack on the desktop opens the stack in Player, and
ctrl-double-click opens stack in Development - opposite behavior to Rev. MC
behavior is preferrable for these "personal" stacks you want to simply "use"
most of the time.

Would be nice if Rev had an option in Preferences for double-click behavior.
Here's fix, at least for Windows OS:

In Revolution distribution folder, copy Revolution.exe to a new file whose
name doesn't start with "rev", e.g., Copy of Revolution.exe or mc.exe or
mcrev.exe (but not revmc.exe). In Windows Folder Options (file types)
control panel, create a new file type for "personal" stacks, e.g., RV (.rv
extension) and then click Advanced button to specify they are to be opened
by the renamed copy of Revolution.exe in Revolution distribution folder.

Now, double-clicking an .rv stack on the desktop opens the stack in Player
mode (with MC hand cursor and default font size but with Rev title-bar
icon). Ctrl-double-click opens file in licensed MC Development if you have a
licensed MC home stack somewhere on disk, or opens file in Starter Kit MC
Development if you have an unlicensed MC home stack somewhere, or opens file
in Player if there is no MC home stack on disk.

Change extension of .rv file to .rev to edit file in Rev Development, then
change it back to .rv to open in Player with double-click.

Rich Herz
herz at ucsd.edu
www.reactorlab.net




From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Wed Jul 16 20:18:17 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Wed Jul 16 20:18:17 2003
Subject: file permission problems with running runrev on Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <20030716140128.1A02.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>
References: <20030716140128.1A02.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>
Message-ID: <20030717100655.A891.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

FYI:

> Am I the only person who does most work on Mac OS X as a non-admin user?
> 
> (I'm sure I just didn't go back far enough in the archives to see an
> answer for this.)
> 
> Logged in as the user that I installed runrev as, runrev runs.
> 
> Logged in as another user, runrev starts up and gives me the application
> menu (second from left) and then just sits there. Now file menu, no edit
> menu, no splash screen, no "do you agree to the license?" dialog,
> nothing. I can quit from the application menu. There is no visible
> response to any other item in the application menu.
> 
> I thought this had to do with not installing runrev in the applications
> folder, or with not being the primary admin user when I installed it. So
> I tried installing into the applications folder (/Applications/dev,
> actually) as the primary admin. Same thing. Changing the owner and
> permissions to match those in the pre-installed applications doesn't
> seem to change anything.
> 
> Is this something I just have to live with? In other words, do I just
> have to rip it out and re-install while logged in as the dev user?

Just for fun, I tried installing runrev on a volume that is not my boot
volume. (Non-boot volumes in Mac OS X tend to be given the permissions
of the logged in user. This is fundamentally wrong, but the way it is,
at least for the present.) That worked. I can log in as any user and
runrev starts up just fine from the non-boot volume.

Thinking about the license, I'm not sure that's what the folks at runrev
wanted either.

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From curry at pair.com  Wed Jul 16 20:43:00 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Wed Jul 16 20:43:00 2003
Subject: What Gives? (Keyboard shortcuts)
In-Reply-To: <200307162158.RAA08643@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307162158.RAA08643@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb3baa76b399@[68.86.46.40]>

>i think it was mentioned earlier on the list to go into the
>prefs and reset them to the defaults (that should fix the
>keyboard navigation)..

Hey it works! I'm saving easier again... :-)

Curry


From bornstein at designeq.com  Wed Jul 16 20:44:00 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Wed Jul 16 20:44:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <200307170137.h6H1b8iY015728@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>

Hmm. Looks like there's a new pricing model for Rev now and talk of 
V2.02. (http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/licensing1.html)

Sigh. Call me silly, but I always hoped we'd here about this stuff first 
on this list, rather than seeing it on the web site.

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Jul 16 21:03:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed Jul 16 21:03:00 2003
Subject: variables, arrays, or custom properties
In-Reply-To: <20030716213218.72047.qmail@web20008.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030716213218.72047.qmail@web20008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F160235.3020904@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/16/03 4:32 PM, erik hansen wrote:

> they used to say that globals were
> too volatile to rely on very long, so i have
> been saving to disk after each change.

I don't know if I'd call them volatile, particularly. The only danger is 
if another stack uses the same variable name, which would allow it to 
change the value when you might not expect it. If you give your globals 
distinctive names and don't reuse those names in other stacks, there 
isn't any danger. Richard's stack-naming example works well with globals 
too; if your stack's name is "MyStack," then prefix all its globals with 
"gMS" or some other identifier, which reduces the chance that some other 
stack will reuse it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From threemanifold at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 21:45:00 2003
From: threemanifold at yahoo.com (Peterson Trethewey)
Date: Wed Jul 16 21:45:00 2003
Subject: Movie with a mask?
In-Reply-To: <BB3A5240.30BAE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030717023706.15697.qmail@web80605.mail.yahoo.com>

well, THAT's easy.  Thanks!

--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> Peterson Trethewey wrote:
> 
> > I need to play a movie with a mask, like a clip
> > region, or an alpha channel.  I figured out how to
> do
> > this sort of thing with a picture, but movies are
> > totally different.  Is it possible to tell a
> player to
> > do this?
> 
> Yes: set the alwaysbuffer of the player to true,
> then lay any masked image
> over the player.
> 
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin 
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on
> any site
> 
>
___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com      
> http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM:
> FourthWorldInc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Jul 16 21:52:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Jul 16 21:52:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307170137.h6H1b8iY015728@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOECHDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>
> Hmm. Looks like there's a new pricing model for Rev now and talk of
> V2.02. (http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/licensing1.html)
>
> Sigh. Call me silly, but I always hoped we'd here about this stuff first
> on this list, rather than seeing it on the web site.

Well in theory the improve list is meant to hear about things first. Seeing
as there has been no announcement there I'd say that 2.0.2 would be another
minor bugfix relase. I also don't think they will announce until the page
and shopping cart are completed.

I'm not suprised at the changes in license pricing. It was inevitable that
once RunRev had the engine they would have more flexibility to both provide
the cheep version many people have demanded and push the boundaries with the
top end version now that they no longer compete with MetaCard. I'll be
interested to see how the 'deploy on one platform' version is enforced
though.

It seems there is no 'Free' edition listed also. If this is the case I
imagine the list will ignite for a few days. In the end, 30 days is
sufficient to evaluate the product and work out which version is right for
you.

It should also be noted that according to that page there are some absolute
bargain prices going at the moment.

Cheers

Monte



From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul 16 22:00:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:00:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
References: <200307170137.h6H1b8iY015728@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c34c0e$884014e0$6701a8c0@ed>

Um...something seems very wrong here. It's going to cost $1199 to do any
kind of real cross-platform development!?!?! According to this list, I am
going to need to develop under windows, and if I want test and debug
something for the Mac I will need to either pay $1199, or test on the mac
using the free version and WRITE DOWN all the error bugs, since I can't edit
scripts longer than 10 lines on my test machine!?!?

I'm understand the need to make money, but sacraficing the cross-platform
appeal of revolution for all the but the highest end users dosn't seem like
the way to do it to me.

What is a feature update, by the way?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Howard Bornstein" <bornstein at designeq.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 7:37 PM
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing


> Hmm. Looks like there's a new pricing model for Rev now and talk of
> V2.02. (http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/licensing1.html)
>
> Sigh. Call me silly, but I always hoped we'd here about this stuff first
> on this list, rather than seeing it on the web site.
>
> Howard Bornstein
> ____________________
> D E S I G N  E Q
> www.designeq.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul 16 22:07:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:07:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
References: <200307170137.h6H1b8iY015728@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com> <001b01c34c0e$884014e0$6701a8c0@ed>
Message-ID: <002601c34c0f$79f781b0$6701a8c0@ed>

Oh wait - as Monte has pointed out in his post, it looks like the free
version is going away. So, after 30 days it will be impossible to test on
another platform. Can someone explain how this will work?

----- Original Message ----- 
>  test on the mac
> using the free version and WRITE DOWN all the error bugs, since I can't
edit
> scripts longer than 10 lines on my test machine!?!?



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Jul 16 22:12:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:12:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <1030717125116.3f160f24.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.78567@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <0B2718CA-B803-11D7-8162-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

It all sounds good to me although I need to see the upgrade options & 
prices.
The odd thing is that when I went to the downloads page to see if 2.0.2 
was available, I could only get 1.1.1 or 2.0RC1. I seem to have slipped 
into a time warp here :-)

Sarah

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 12:51  pm, Monte Goulding wrote:

>
>>
>> Hmm. Looks like there's a new pricing model for Rev now and talk of
>> V2.02. (http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/licensing1.html)
>>
>> Sigh. Call me silly, but I always hoped we'd here about this stuff 
>> first
>> on this list, rather than seeing it on the web site.
>
> Well in theory the improve list is meant to hear about things first. 
> Seeing
> as there has been no announcement there I'd say that 2.0.2 would be 
> another
> minor bugfix relase. I also don't think they will announce until the 
> page
> and shopping cart are completed.
>
> I'm not suprised at the changes in license pricing. It was inevitable 
> that
> once RunRev had the engine they would have more flexibility to both 
> provide
> the cheep version many people have demanded and push the boundaries 
> with the
> top end version now that they no longer compete with MetaCard. I'll be
> interested to see how the 'deploy on one platform' version is enforced
> though.
>
> It seems there is no 'Free' edition listed also. If this is the case I
> imagine the list will ignite for a few days. In the end, 30 days is
> sufficient to evaluate the product and work out which version is right 
> for
> you.
>
> It should also be noted that according to that page there are some 
> absolute
> bargain prices going at the moment.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 16 22:18:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:18:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <001b01c34c0e$884014e0$6701a8c0@ed>
Message-ID: <3CCE716A-B804-11D7-9534-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 08:52  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> Um...something seems very wrong here. It's going to cost $1199 to do 
> any
> kind of real cross-platform development!?!?!

It's definitely a major change to the licensing. There are some 
negatives. However, some pluses too:

- They are enabling full (except Oracle) database functionality for all 
versions. I think was previously only for Pro licenses?

- They are also including more support with each license.

- And the 50% off deal

Also, the 30 day trial is all-platforms/all-platforms. In a pinch I bet 
a Studio user could use a trial license to debug a particularly 
platform specific bug using the IDE on that platform.


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From bornstein at designeq.com  Wed Jul 16 22:24:00 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:24:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <200307170316.h6H3Gns4028368@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>

>Well in theory the improve list is meant to hear about things first.

Oops, you're right. I meant to post this on the improve list.

>It seems there is no 'Free' edition listed also.

I was sort of assuming that the 30-day trial period edition was similar 
to what we currently have: 

"After the 30-day period expires, the Evaluation Edition is transformed 
into the Free Edition. You can continue to use the Free Edition as long 
as you want, but to remove the length limitation on scripts, or to 
continue to use Professional Edition features such as non-ODBC database 
connections after the evaluation period has passed, you must purchase a 
license."

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From alansimon01 at optonline.net  Wed Jul 16 22:44:01 2003
From: alansimon01 at optonline.net (Alan Simon)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:44:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307170316.h6H3Gns4028368@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <F114CFB5-B807-11D7-BB9A-00306586EADA@optonline.net>

How does the new pricing scheme relate to this?

Runtime Revolution 2.1 -- which was demonstrated at the CreativePro 
expo today -- is the latest update to the user-centric, multi-platform 
software development environment. Revolution 2.1, now in beta, will 
contain dozens of improvements. Mac OS X developers will benefit from 
the addition of "metal" appearance, dra wers, and other interface 
creation improvements. It is available for half-price ($200) until July 
23.

Alan Simon

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 11:16  PM, Howard Bornstein wrote:

>> Well in theory the improve list is meant to hear about things first.
>
> Oops, you're right. I meant to post this on the improve list.
>
>> It seems there is no 'Free' edition listed also.
>
> I was sort of assuming that the 30-day trial period edition was similar
> to what we currently have:
>
> "After the 30-day period expires, the Evaluation Edition is transformed
> into the Free Edition. You can continue to use the Free Edition as long
> as you want, but to remove the length limitation on scripts, or to
> continue to use Professional Edition features such as non-ODBC database
> connections after the evaluation period has passed, you must purchase a
> license."
>
> Howard Bornstein
> ____________________
> D E S I G N  E Q
> www.designeq.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul 16 22:49:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:49:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
References: <3CCE716A-B804-11D7-9534-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <003801c34c15$4ee43a30$6701a8c0@ed>

Maybe. I wasn't sure. Right now you have access to all of those databases
through ODBC, I'm mnot sure if they are talking about ODBC access, or full
SQL access. If so, that's a BIG improvement. At the same time, it becomes a
big negative that you can't develop on the PC (for example) and deliver
somethign that will run as a web app on a linux server.

What constitutes a "platform" in the case of the *nixs anyway? Do I need
different licenses for each flavor?

I'm really not complaining - it's way to early for that. I just have
questions.

Edwin Gore

----- Original Message ----- 
> - They are enabling full (except Oracle) database functionality for all
> versions. I think was previously only for Pro licenses?



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul 16 22:55:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:55:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <0B2718CA-B803-11D7-8162-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <6F456310-B809-11D7-BC12-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 09:02 PM, Sarah wrote:

> It all sounds good to me although I need to see the upgrade options &  
> prices.
> The odd thing is that when I went to the downloads page to see if  
> 2.0.2 was available, I could only get 1.1.1 or 2.0RC1. I seem to have  
> slipped into a time warp here :-)

Perhaps there is a goof with the MacWorld show and all and the latter  
is really it.

Dar


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Jul 16 22:56:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:56:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <001b01c34c0e$884014e0$6701a8c0@ed>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHGECKDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>
> Um...something seems very wrong here. It's going to cost $1199 to do any
> kind of real cross-platform development!?!?! According to this list, I am
> going to need to develop under windows, and if I want test and debug
> something for the Mac I will need to either pay $1199, or test on the mac
> using the free version and WRITE DOWN all the error bugs, since I
> can't edit
> scripts longer than 10 lines on my test machine!?!?
>
> I'm understand the need to make money, but sacraficing the cross-platform
> appeal of revolution for all the but the highest end users dosn't
> seem like
> the way to do it to me.

I think it's reasonable. I imagine this came about because so many people
opted for the Small Biz version so RunRev needed to introduce a major
difference between the versions. You could always use an Express or Eval
version for testing and bug fixing.
>
> What is a feature update, by the way?
>
I think it's a minor update. 2.0 -> 2.1. The 2.0.1 -> 2.0.2 updates would be
bug fixes and the 2.0 -> 3.0 updates would be major file structure changes.
I think this is a big plus for the Studio Version compared to the Small Biz
version.

> I was sort of assuming that the 30-day trial period edition was similar
> to what we currently have:

Don't assume anything. We don't know if RunRev was maintaining the Free
Version just to compete with MC or not. With such a cheep version being
introduced what value is it to RunRev to maintain the Free Version? If I
were RunRev I'd dump it because it will stop people buying the Express
version. Long term Free Version users are a drain on RunRev's resources and
the cost of that drain ends up in the hands of users that pay.

Regards

Monte



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Jul 16 23:02:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed Jul 16 23:02:01 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1611 - 14 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200307162158.RAA08633@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3B6D58.1D4A%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Bill,
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:32:00 -0400
> Subject: What Gives?
> From: Simtech Publications <switchedon at hsj.com>

> 
> Is anyone else having these problems?
-----------
I'm not. Mine is fine, G4 tower, OS 9.2.1

But I do recall some problems when I first used 2.0.1. If the stacks you
open have established filepaths to 1.1.1, you can have problems.

Best suggestion I can make is to trash or disable 1.1.1 so that the stacks
cannot access it when you open them. I threw my old 1.1.1 folder AND  the
2.0.1 folder away and downloaded the new version again, so it was fresh and
the only one available on the drive.

No problems since then.

HTH,
Ken N.



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Wed Jul 16 23:28:00 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Wed Jul 16 23:28:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <200307170420.AAA29619@bright.unitz.ca>

> It seems there is no 'Free' edition listed also. If this

from the website:

"After the 30-day period expires, the Evaluation Edition is
transformed into the Free Edition. You can continue to use
the Free Edition as long as you want, but to remove the
length limitation on scripts, or to continue to use
Professional Edition features such as non-ODBC database
connections after the evaluation period has passed, you must
purchase a license."


From squance at elkvalley.net  Wed Jul 16 23:44:00 2003
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Wed Jul 16 23:44:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307170137.h6H1b8iY015728@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <l03130302bb3bd863f5f6@[192.168.1.101]>

>Hmm. Looks like there's a new pricing model for Rev now and talk of
>V2.02. (http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/licensing1.html)
>
>Sigh. Call me silly, but I always hoped we'd here about this stuff first
>on this list, rather than seeing it on the web site.

It's so those of us who recently paid twice the price don't have a fit.  :)




From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul 16 23:51:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul 16 23:51:00 2003
Subject: file permission problems with running runrev on Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <20030716140128.1A02.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>
Message-ID: <38E01610-B811-11D7-BC12-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 01:55 AM, Joel Rees wrote:

> Am I the only person who does most work on Mac OS X as a non-admin  
> user?
>
I, too, do not do day-to-day work as an admin.

I put my Revolution folder into the very top of my User folder and that  
seems to work.  It seems I have versions all over the place, desktop,  
documents and so on and they work.

Dar Scott


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From bvlahos at mac.com  Thu Jul 17 00:14:00 2003
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Thu Jul 17 00:14:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <l03130302bb3bd863f5f6@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <85ED2346-B814-11D7-BB3A-0003936A2C42@mac.com>

I believe that 2.0.2 is a free bug fix update to the 2.0 version and 
will be included in same extended licenses for 2.0.

Version 2.1 has new features and, I believe, will be a pay for upgrade 
and is covered by current license holders.

Bill Vlahos

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 09:37  PM, David Squance wrote:

>> Hmm. Looks like there's a new pricing model for Rev now and talk of
>> V2.02. (http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/licensing1.html)
>>
>> Sigh. Call me silly, but I always hoped we'd here about this stuff 
>> first
>> on this list, rather than seeing it on the web site.
>
> It's so those of us who recently paid twice the price don't have a 
> fit.  :)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 01:51:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 01:51:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <001b01c34c0e$884014e0$6701a8c0@ed>
Message-ID: <F57CAFE2-B821-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

No -- if you don't need the other features of the Enterprise edition, 
you could buy the Studio edition for Windows for $199, and the Express 
edition for Mac for $75. This combination would allow you to build for 
any platform, and debug natively on Windows and OS X, for $274.

Also note that the Enterprise edition is currently $599, which is 
roughly $400 cheaper than it has ever been. (At least in the six years 
of history I'm familiar with)

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 07:52  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> Um...something seems very wrong here. It's going to cost $1199 to do 
> any
> kind of real cross-platform development!?!?! According to this list, I 
> am
> going to need to develop under windows, and if I want test and debug
> something for the Mac I will need to either pay $1199, or test on the 
> mac
> using the free version and WRITE DOWN all the error bugs, since I 
> can't edit
> scripts longer than 10 lines on my test machine!?!?
>

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 01:56:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 01:56:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307170316.h6H3Gns4028368@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9BE885DC-B822-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

It's my understanding that the 30-day trial will function more 
similarly to the industry norm: no network connection required, but no 
starter kit functionality afterward.

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 08:16  PM, Howard Bornstein wrote:

> I was sort of assuming that the 30-day trial period edition was similar
> to what we currently have:
>

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 02:02:02 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 02:02:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <003801c34c15$4ee43a30$6701a8c0@ed>
Message-ID: <65418618-B823-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 08:41  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> Maybe. I wasn't sure. Right now you have access to all of those 
> databases
> through ODBC, I'm mnot sure if they are talking about ODBC access, or 
> full
> SQL access. If so, that's a BIG improvement. At the same time, it 
> becomes a
> big negative that you can't develop on the PC (for example) and deliver
> somethign that will run as a web app on a linux server.

It's direct access, not ODBC. So everyone can start cheering now ;-)

You could get a copy of Studio to deliver to other platforms.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 02:04:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 02:04:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <003801c34c15$4ee43a30$6701a8c0@ed>
Message-ID: <DDC23538-B823-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 08:41  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> What constitutes a "platform" in the case of the *nixs anyway? Do I 
> need
> different licenses for each flavor?

If you are talking about Express, yes, you would need separate 
licenses. Express is intended for hobbyists and similar users. Note 
that apps built with Express have a built-in Revolution closing screen.

But in this case you should be considering Studio instead, which builds 
for all of them.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From bornstein at designeq.com  Thu Jul 17 02:09:00 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Thu Jul 17 02:09:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <200307170701.h6H71ns4007147@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>

>
>- They are also including more support with each license.

Hmm. I'm not so sure. The Educational and Professional licenses provide 1 
year technical email support. With the new licenses, Enterprise gives you 
10 incidents only (but it doesn't specify a time frame). No tech support 
other than up-and-running for the others.

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From curry at pair.com  Thu Jul 17 02:19:00 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Thu Jul 17 02:19:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307170225.WAA16050@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307170225.WAA16050@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb3be6f2fffa@[68.86.46.40]>

I thought that everyone had agreed (about ten thousand times) that 
the great thing about Revolution and MetaCard is you develop on all 
platforms. We all know that developing on one platform for another 
without being able to make changes on both can be the pits.

This new pricing model doesn't just affect people how people can use 
it according to their budgets, it changes what Revolution 
fundamentally is.

I realize all change is shocking and first responses tend to be 
pessimistic. I don't want to be too negative without hearing all the 
options. But my first reaction certainly wasn't jumping for joy.

The old model was really neat. If it needed some adjustments, that 
wouldn't be too bad. But I don't like to throw out everything and 
start all over every year. (That's why I don't change OSs and 
computers every time Apple has a trade show, for example.) I'm 
planning to base most of what I do in Rev, I've spent a lot of time 
building up stuff, and I'm hankering for a stable process, if 
possible avoiding big surprises--they tend to wrench the stomach.

I also need to know that I can continue to afford to stay on the ship 
that I jumped onto when I embarked on my journey; the ocean analogy 
is a good one to show the situation a person would be in if the 
licensing changes beyond his means! (Well, not lethal, but...)

I still hadn't renewed, but with the old system I was looking forward 
to doing so when I could, for the next big release. I guess there is 
still the question of the renewal fees. That might improve it a bit 
or not depending on what they are.

But here are the points I want to consider:

1. The fee model is very similar to RealBasic. I guess that's okay. 
(Although I came here trying to get away from RealBasic!) The prices 
and update privileges are similar. But a few important points: 
Realbasic Standard is 150 for CD and printed docs, and (as far as I 
know, I haven't fooled with them much lately) no "Made with" message. 
RB is 100 for license and downloads only.

I prefer e-docs, so that's no problem for me, although many people 
are ravenous for docs printed out. (But when you pay 150 for 
something, it shouldn't be like a cereal box offer for kids where you 
get the nag version. "Made with" is popular for versions of software 
ranging from free to 30 dollars. Even though it's the cheapest level, 
150 is still way above the nag level and those customers have paid 
adequately for control over their software including notices. You 
might get away with it (and maybe open up a new market for Rev and 
get more new people in) for a fifty dollar version with enough 
additional limitations.

If I bought RealBasic (not planning to, but let's look at the 
comparison since the price models look similar) I would definitely 
get (two of) the license-only versions at 100 each. If I bought Rev 
(from scratch, pretend I'm a new customer) that's 150 each--for the 
same thing, download the app and docs. Now, you do get some value for 
that 50 dollars each, but still, that's a consideration.

2. A more positive thought: Depending on the renewals, I may be 
considering the 150 version, buying one for Mac and one for Windows. 
That's fine. I would probably prefer that to the 400 version because 
you can edit on both platforms. But a promo screen at the end would 
jinx it up.

Even if the renewal fees were sweet enough to make it better for me 
to use another version, I still think that would still be a good 
option for people getting started.

But again, the promo screen--it's almost like a communication 
breakdown and lack of understanding of concepts and viewpoints 
between company and customer--not realizing that a 150 or 300 dollar 
per feature version customer is a serious customer! Look at other 
companies and products. The nag version (with the right limitations, 
they need to be sufficient limitations and something to adequately 
differentiate from the standard version and more serious 
users--notably, probably not making products to sell for profit) is 
totally acceptable to bring in people who are not doing something so 
serious, at a different price range. Teachers, kids, hobbyists who 
are not hard-core, freeware developers and non-profits--all these 
would be perfect examples and Rev could possibly start a new line of 
business there--but it has *nothing* to do with a version, no matter 
what it's called, at the 150 range. Making this mistake could have 
the potential to cheapen your product image and lose a whole set of 
potential customers in a certain range of price and interests.

3. What will be the results of the changes in terms of defining 
Revolution and how will people see it under the new setup? The old 
definition was definitely: the ultimate in multi-platform, in all 
aspects, at all levels.

However, I can understand that paying for platform privileges makes 
sense. So if this works out, fine. I'm open to it, as long as the 
issues such as #1 and #2 are handled well enough.

Well, there it is. I want to say congrats to RunRev on everything 
that's happened lately! It's exciting. But think carefully about this 
pricing model.

Thanks,

Curry Kenworthy


From Antn at aol.com  Thu Jul 17 03:10:00 2003
From: Antn at aol.com (Antn at aol.com)
Date: Thu Jul 17 03:10:00 2003
Subject: New PRINTED Revolution Docs Now Available?
Message-ID: <1e8.d26787e.2c47b233@aol.com>

Hi,

According to the new pricing model, the Enterprise version of Revolution 
comes with PRINTED DOCUMENTATION! 

Does that mean these are now available? 

According to the Rev website, only Enterprise license purchasers get printed 
docs.

Why make this available only to Enterprise level Revolution developers? 

It seem to me by the time you get to that stage you should already have the 
entire Rev dictionary in your head!

People new to Revolution, students, newbies, and the like, are really the 
ones who need printed docs, not gnarly, seasoned, professional veteran 
programmers (who can afford the enterprise version.)

The online Rev tutorials/documentation are great, but no online help doc can 
ever replace a good, sturdy, open book whose pages you can flip up and down, 
mark-up, doodle in, dog-ear-up, xerox, read in bed, and set next to you while 
you are learning.

I think these jprinted docs should come with EVERY paid license of Rev, 
irregardless of the level.

However, if not, I am willing to purchase a copy immediately.  

Are these docs available RIGHT NOW? Last time I checked they were out of 
stock. And if we buy them, are they shipped from Scotland? How long does it take 
to get to the US? How much are they?

Thanks.


Antn - (Leading the REVOLUTION!)
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From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Thu Jul 17 05:03:00 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Thu Jul 17 05:03:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <20030717105533.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

My initial reaction was that this was bad.  But after a lot of consideration, I don't think so any more.  The free Starter Kit was always a fantastic idea - the principle that people could start to learn Metacard (Rev) and see how easy it was to do stuff in just 10 lines is great.  And I really liked that the documentation would try to encourage people to think about the flexibility of the Metacard model by using frontscripts etc to get round the 10 line limitation.  To me this was just a very inviting model, and was one of the endearing things about the product, and actually made me want to buy Rev long before I had any need to because of the 10-line limit.

However, the jump between Starter Kit and Full version was huge.  The introduction of the Small Business version meant it was a no-brainer for me to buy it.  Even if my attention has been drawn elsewhere technologically in 2003, I have no regrets about buying into Rev.  However, I could not see myself upgrading to the full Professional license any time soon.  

What is new for the 'Enterprise' license, is the inclusion of the 10 support incidents.  We need to know if this is telephone or email support, and if there is a time limitation.  I suspect many people never even saw (or have forgotten) that support could be bought.   Even for me this might have been/might be useful, as there were some fundamental problems with some of the ODBC drivers I used with Rev.  If this meant I could get something like that fixed by them (the drives worked for all the other software I used with them), it would be worth the difference.  

To me, the policy on non-ODBC database drivers is a bizarre mish-mash, and would never have offered me any real benefit in upgrading from the SBE.  I can't see that any of it adds much benefit, even to an Enterprise user (plenty of companies are using DB2, Interbase, SQL Server or Sybase, and a myriad of other data sources).  And anyone who thinks that ODBC has to be slow should see how fast SQLite and Firebird are via the ODBC driver (connecting to Oracle is famously slow, hence the need for non-ODBC solutions).  The 10-incident support might well offer me the inducement to upgrade my license (the 'carrot'), as would the desire for upgrades (the 'stick').

The pricing model is probably an improvement for Runrev and for most users.  The model is a little more complex than before, but probably provides more flexibility in terms of encouraging people to move from the version of Rev that brings in less income, to a version of Rev that brings in more income (for both the developer and Runrev).  They can't be blamed for this - we want Rev to continue its advancement, so any change in the pricing structure that improves their revenue stream whilst not discouraging the uptake of Rev is great.  

The only people being squeezed are the SBE users who want to target multiple platforms, or who want the year of free upgrades.  But they are getting free access to the non-ODBC drivers, so they are not just losing out (I assume I am the only one who thinks the whole database drivers policy is mistaken in principle).  In fact, as someone who has no use for these drivers, but who wishes to target multiple platforms, I fall squarely into the camp of the 'losers'.  But on the whole, I still think the new pricing model is a good thing.  They have drastically lowered the bar for new entrants interested in producing apps for a single OS.

I suspect that the majority of the apps made with Rev and Metacard are aimed at Win32 and the Mac OSs.  I know that Metacard has a unix heritage, but it doesn't look from the Rev list like many people are targetting unix.  If someone really is targetting multiple platforms for 'religious' or commercial reasons, then I think they should be prepared to step up to pay twice as much as the single platform version.  If a multi-platform version of your app is not going to bring in $150 more in value, it is probably not a good idea to be thinking about it (unless, like me, you would want to do it to ensure future-proofing).  I still think that the unix support (or at least Linux support) has to be maintained.  It is hard for us to imagine the potential growth of Linux.  Whilst many Linux users might be averse to paying for software right now, that is going to change.  Businesses that are using Linux expect to pay for stuff (companies like Oracle and IBM are not giving away the Linux versions of their software).  Increasingly there will be end-users who also expect to pay for software too.

There is one thing that Runrev should seriously reconsider though. As Curry has pointed out, the 'Nag' screen principle leaves a bad taste.  Since small scale, multiplatform apps can be developed and built in the Starter Kit (Evaluation version), and that version brings in no revenue for Runrev, it is entirely reasonable that those apps should produce some kind of advertising for Runrev when the app runs or quits.  But it is unacceptable that someone who has paid for a license to use a development platform, should also be forced to include advertising for that platform.  

I personally have introduced people to Revolution and they have subsequently bought the SBE.  These were people who were really only interested in developing for one platform, and would have jumped even more quickly if the Express version had been available.  But I think that knowing they are forced to pay twice as much to get the multiplatform version just to get rid of the Nag screen would put them off altogether.

Runrev should rely on the merits of the product and their pricing structure.  Runrev should set about producing a range of small, free, multi-platform apps built with the Starter Kit (and the nag screen).  These apps should be distributed with no support via shareware/freeware sites, and the actual Transcript could be available on Runrev's site so that anyone who is interested in developing with Rev could then see how it was done, download the Starter Kit, and either become a paying customer or feed into the cycle of apps that advertise Rev.  

Rev is still the best multi-platform RAD solution, and they need to _demonstrate_ this as part of their marketing. 

We all need Runrev to thrive so that they have more internal developers and the product continues to be the best choice available.  But Runrev need to take responsibility for marketing their own product.  I have never seen any promotional material for it outside their own site.  I stumbled upon Rev completely by accident (someone mentioned it in an entirely unrelated discussion group and I looked into it purely because it was cross-platform).  

Now we just need to hear about how this all relates to those who want to upgrade their existing licenses on the basis of this new licensing structure.

Regards 

Bernard  



From curry at pair.com  Thu Jul 17 07:24:00 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Thu Jul 17 07:24:00 2003
Subject: New PRINTED Revolution Docs Now Available?
In-Reply-To: <200307170630.CAA22782@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307170630.CAA22782@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b01bb3c3e6e80f5@[68.86.46.40]>

>The online Rev tutorials/documentation are great, but no online help doc can
>ever replace a good, sturdy, open book whose pages you can flip up and down,
>mark-up, doodle in, dog-ear-up, xerox, read in bed, and set next to you while
>you are learning.

I'll probably always stick with the hypertext references which I 
prefer, but this is a great description and makes me understand a 
little more about what I am missing! :-)

Curry


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 07:42:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 07:42:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00bb3be6f2fffa@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <F9A62293-B82D-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

Responses below:

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 12:10  AM, curry wrote:

> I thought that everyone had agreed (about ten thousand times) that the 
> great thing about Revolution and MetaCard is you develop on all 
> platforms. We all know that developing on one platform for another 
> without being able to make changes on both can be the pits.

Certainly true, but people have also been clamoring for a lower cost 
option for hobbyists. Now one is available.

<snip>

> But here are the points I want to consider:
>
> 1. The fee model is very similar to RealBasic. I guess that's okay. 
> (Although I came here trying to get away from RealBasic!) The prices 
> and update privileges are similar. But a few important points: 
> Realbasic Standard is 150 for CD and printed docs, and (as far as I 
> know, I haven't fooled with them much lately) no "Made with" message. 
> RB is 100 for license and downloads only.

Obviously REALbasic and Revolution aren't interchangeable, but playing 
along for a moment, the Express edition is currently $75, and it 
includes access to MySQL, PostgreSQL, and other databases.

If you have exactly $150 to spend then REALbasic is ahead at that price 
point because of the printed manuals.

At $199 you can get Revolution Studio, which includes database access 
and cross-compiling. You don't get those until you move to REALbasic 
Professional for $399.

Note that I'm listing the intro price above. The gap narrows after the 
deal expires.

> I prefer e-docs, so that's no problem for me, although many people are 
> ravenous for docs printed out. (But when you pay 150 for something, it 
> shouldn't be like a cereal box offer for kids where you get the nag 
> version. "Made with" is popular for versions of software ranging from 
> free to 30 dollars. Even though it's the cheapest level, 150 is still 
> way above the nag level and those customers have paid adequately for 
> control over their software including notices. You might get away with 
> it (and maybe open up a new market for Rev and get more new people in) 
> for a fifty dollar version with enough additional limitations.

Express is intended for hobbyists.

> If I bought RealBasic (not planning to, but let's look at the 
> comparison since the price models look similar) I would definitely get 
> (two of) the license-only versions at 100 each. If I bought Rev (from 
> scratch, pretend I'm a new customer) that's 150 each--for the same 
> thing, download the app and docs. Now, you do get some value for that 
> 50 dollars each, but still, that's a consideration.

Currently it's $75 each, for $150 total.

> 2. A more positive thought: Depending on the renewals, I may be 
> considering the 150 version, buying one for Mac and one for Windows. 
> That's fine. I would probably prefer that to the 400 version because 
> you can edit on both platforms. But a promo screen at the end would 
> jinx it up.
>
> Even if the renewal fees were sweet enough to make it better for me to 
> use another version, I still think that would still be a good option 
> for people getting started.

That's the idea.

> But again, the promo screen--it's almost like a communication 
> breakdown and lack of understanding of concepts and viewpoints between 
> company and customer--not realizing that a 150 or 300 dollar per 
> feature version customer is a serious customer! Look at other 
> companies and products. The nag version (with the right limitations, 
> they need to be sufficient limitations and something to adequately 
> differentiate from the standard version and more serious 
> users--notably, probably not making products to sell for profit) is 
> totally acceptable to bring in people who are not doing something so 
> serious, at a different price range. Teachers, kids, hobbyists who are 
> not hard-core, freeware developers and non-profits--all these would be 
> perfect examples and Rev could possibly start a new line of business 
> there--but it has *nothing* to do with a version, no matter what it's 
> called, at the 150 range. Making this mistake could have the potential 
> to cheapen your product image and lose a whole set of potential 
> customers in a certain range of price and interests.

Teachers and kids would be eligible for the educational discount, so it 
would not be $150. During the introduction it's not even $75.

> 3. What will be the results of the changes in terms of defining 
> Revolution and how will people see it under the new setup? The old 
> definition was definitely: the ultimate in multi-platform, in all 
> aspects, at all levels.
>
> However, I can understand that paying for platform privileges makes 
> sense. So if this works out, fine. I'm open to it, as long as the 
> issues such as #1 and #2 are handled well enough.
>
> Well, there it is. I want to say congrats to RunRev on everything 
> that's happened lately! It's exciting. But think carefully about this 
> pricing model.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 07:52:26 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 07:52:26 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307170420.AAA29619@bright.unitz.ca>
Message-ID: <0D009B03-B826-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

The demo version is going to be updated to work more like a traditional 
demo: no network connection required, but also no Free Edition after 
the thirty days.

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 09:20  PM, Shao Sean wrote:

>> It seems there is no 'Free' edition listed also. If this
>
> from the website:
>
> "After the 30-day period expires, the Evaluation Edition is
> transformed into the Free Edition. You can continue to use
> the Free Edition as long as you want, but to remove the
> length limitation on scripts, or to continue to use
> Professional Edition features such as non-ODBC database
> connections after the evaluation period has passed, you must
> purchase a license."
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 08:00:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 08:00:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <85ED2346-B814-11D7-BB3A-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2F934A0C-B826-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 10:07  PM, Bill Vlahos wrote:

> I believe that 2.0.2 is a free bug fix update to the 2.0 version and 
> will be included in same extended licenses for 2.0.
>
> Version 2.1 has new features and, I believe, will be a pay for upgrade 
> and is covered by current license holders.

This is my understanding as well.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From kkaufman at snet.net  Thu Jul 17 08:35:00 2003
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Thu Jul 17 08:35:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <173947D8-B852-11D7-986A-0003936D1F12@snet.net>

I'll be very interested to see which bugs have been squashed in v2.02- 
hopefully the QT audio player controller update bug is among them?
With regard to the new pricing, I'm sure the pros and cons of the 
scheme were debated amongst those responsible for marketing Revolution; 
so now we'll see how it pans out.
Personally, I have to admit I found it a little odd to distribute a 
limited edition of the Rev. IDE with detailed instructions on how to 
circumvent those limitations, but I guess the idea was to use that 
circumvention as a tutorial.

my 2-cents,
Kurt



From switchedon at hsj.com  Thu Jul 17 08:47:00 2003
From: switchedon at hsj.com (Bill Lynn)
Date: Thu Jul 17 08:47:00 2003
Subject: What Goves?
In-Reply-To: <200307162158.RAA08643@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <0D0977F2-B85C-11D7-B50D-00039374AB8C@hsj.com>

> well if the key commands are your only problems, that's not
> too bad..

Not too bad! It's a major flaw in my estimation. And since others have 
reported it I think it warrants investigation. It's extremely tedious 
having to use the mouse and menus to accomplish repetitive tasks and it 
slows things down tremendously. By the way, reseting preferences to 
their defaults didn't help.

> even though your license runs out, your copy of RunRev will
> still be a good full-working copy after that date

I understand that. My point is that I'm not inclined to renew the 
license for software that has these problems.

> Does it also happen when you create a brand new stack? If not, then the
> problem may be a commandkey handler in your older stack.

I'm describing problems in a brand new stack.  I'm not using any 
command key handlers. I've also checked and rechecked to make sure that 
messages are not suppressed. The strange thing about command key 
equivalents is that when I try using them, the corresponding menu will 
flash but the operation will fail. I'm completely baffled by this.

This is a major disappointment for me. I've just wasted the past seven 
months banging my head against a wall with Director MX trying to 
understand why a company like Macromedia refuses to accept the fact 
that transition effects are important enough to fix. Can you believe 
it? Transitions in OS X projectors are broken. They just plain don't 
work. So for the past seven months I've been unable to ship products 
using Director MX.

As I continue to work with Rev 2.0.1 I'm discovering other quirks. For 
example, when I transition to a card that contains a default button the 
button magically appears on the starting card before the transition 
begins.

I understand that the the Rev people are at MacWorld Expo. Is anyone 
from the company monitoring this list this week and can you address my 
concerns?



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 17 08:57:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 17 08:57:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.1
In-Reply-To: <200307170137.h6H1b8iY015728@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <8D670A74-B85D-11D7-A496-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi all,

here is something for you from the german www.macgadget.de

MacWorld: Revolution 2.1 angek?ndigt.
Dutzende Verbesserungen verspricht die schottische Firma Runtime 
Revolution
f?r die Revision 2.1 der Entwicklungsumgebung Revolution. Dazu z?hlen 
unter
anderem eine verfeinerte Benutzeroberfl?che und eine verbesserte 
Unicode-Unterst?tzung.
Revolution 2.1 befindet sich derzeit im Betatest.

Tranlation (from babelklaus ;-):

MacWorld: Revolution 2.1 announced.
Dozens of improvements are promised for the revision 2.1 fo Revolution 
by the
Runtime Revolution company. E.g. a "refined" User Interface and improved
Unicode-support. Rev 2.1 is currently in Beta.


No comment, have a nice weekend (ok, its thursday, but ... ;-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Thu Jul 17 09:08:01 2003
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:08:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing and New PRINTED Revolution Docs
Message-ID: <OFEF19EB8C.C37679FB-ON85256D66.004ACB50@sealedair.com>

Ok, here goes my 2 cents worth:

If RunRev seriously sees the need to make changes to bring in "new 
business", newbie programmers are constantly checking out the programming 
section of major book stores. In 199x, I was seeking a language that I 
could understand without taking tech school courses in c++ or perl, etc. 
That is where I first learned of the existence of HyperCard (Brady was the 
author), and I bought these books. The nice thing about this was the 
attached cd that was chock-full of example scripts. My point is this: 
RunRev could simply provide e-Documentation with ALL variations of their 
licenses, but in addition to this, put this wonderful bundle of books ON 
THE SHELVES for would-be programmers to find. Including an evaluation 
version and some examples on a cd wouldn't be a bad idea either. It's 
difficult to imagine, but there are people who aren't online yet.

Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com



From martin at harbourtown.co.uk  Thu Jul 17 09:11:01 2003
From: martin at harbourtown.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:11:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <l03130300bb3c5b51bb3f@[62.137.95.175]>

>curry wrote :
>But I don't like to throw out everything and
>start all over every year. (That's why I don't change OSs and
>computers every time Apple has a trade show, for example.)

LOL - Long live heresy ;-)

martin




From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 09:15:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:15:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <20030717105533.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
Message-ID: <075A9CE4-B860-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 02:55  AM, 
revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com wrote:

> Runrev should set about producing a range of small, free, 
> multi-platform apps built with the Starter Kit (and the nag screen).  
> These apps should be distributed with no support via 
> shareware/freeware sites, and the actual Transcript could be available 
> on Runrev's site so that anyone who is interested in developing with 
> Rev could then see how it was done, download the Starter Kit, and 
> either become a paying customer or feed into the cycle of apps that 
> advertise Rev.

One such app is already completed and awaiting distribution. Regarding 
the code, I'll do you one better: the app itself puts its own code on 
the clipboard if you press command-c.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Thu Jul 17 09:20:01 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:20:01 2003
Subject: What Goves?
Message-ID: <200307171412.KAA18229@bright.unitz.ca>

> Not too bad! It's a major flaw in my estimation. And since
> others have  reported it I think it warrants
investigation.

i'm sure that it has been looked at, or will be (if someone
submits it to the bug-base).. but, obviously, it won't be
fixed in the version you're using ;-)


> It's extremely tedious  having to use the
> mouse and menus to accomplish repetitive tasks and it 
> slows things down tremendously.

isn't the save command on the button bar? you could use that
in the meantime?


> preferences to  their defaults didn't help.

sorry to hear that, but it did work for someone else


> I understand that. My point is that I'm not inclined to
> renew the  license for software that has these problems.

and if the problems are fixed? you can always download the
free/30-day version and see if the problems you've been
having are sorted out and then choose at anytime to renew,
if you are so inclined too..


> when I try using them, the corresponding menu will  flash
> but the operation will fail. I'm completely baffled by

sounds like they broke something.. but hey, i'd like to see
any complex piece of software that's perfect.. at least the
RunRev team has a way of submitting bugs and they do follow
up on them (2 of mine have been resolved)..


> Macromedia refuses to accept the fact  that transition
> effects are important enough to fix. Can you believe  it?

yeah i can believe it, but runrev is not macromedia and even
the littlest thing will be looked at and they will attempt
to fix it (so long as they are aware of it)


> As I continue to work with Rev 2.0.1 I'm discovering other
> quirks. For  example, when I transition to a card that
> contains a default button the  button magically appears on
> the starting card before the transition  begins.

did you bug report it? i know that sounds lame to keep
saying, but just b*tching about something and not using the
tools they offer won't get it resolved.. as for a cheap work
around now, why not take a screen cap of the button, make it
a graphic and then hide the button until the transition is
completed.. could work ;-)


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 09:20:17 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:20:17 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <173947D8-B852-11D7-986A-0003936D1F12@snet.net>
Message-ID: <D1885211-B860-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 05:27  AM, Kurt Kaufman wrote:

> Personally, I have to admit I found it a little odd to distribute a 
> limited edition of the Rev. IDE with detailed instructions on how to 
> circumvent those limitations, but I guess the idea was to use that 
> circumvention as a tutorial.

The problem with the 10 line limit in the Starter Kit is that it's both 
too big and too small.

It's too small in that anyone unfamiliar with Revolution thinks it's 
worthless. "You can't code anything more than 'Hello World' in ten 
lines or less," they say, and in any other development environment 
they're right. In some environments you can't even code "Hello World" 
in ten lines.

But it's also too large, in that anyone who knows what they're doing 
and are willing to put out the effort can get almost anything done in 
ten lines or less.

So the Starter Kit has the dual problem of not being as effective as it 
could be at bringing in new users, and also of hurting sales because 
people find they can do whatever they need with it.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Thu Jul 17 09:21:02 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:21:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <200307171414.KAA18427@bright.unitz.ca>

> One such app is already completed and awaiting
distribution.

what's the name?


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Thu Jul 17 09:22:00 2003
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:22:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.1
Message-ID: <OF7F40970C.F1865BE3-ON85256D66.004D5AB1@sealedair.com>

<snip>
> Tranlation (from babelklaus ;-):
>
> Regards
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
<snip>


When will "babelklaus.rev" be available to download from your website 
Klaus? ;-D

Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 09:24:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:24:01 2003
Subject: New PRINTED Revolution Docs Now Available?
In-Reply-To: <1e8.d26787e.2c47b233@aol.com>
Message-ID: <62753115-B861-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

I don't think the printed docs are available just yet, but they are in 
the works. One problem with including them in every license is the 
size: the last printed manuals were well over 1,000 pages in two or 
three volumes. The new version has substantially more content, although 
it has been reformatted to take up less space, so no bets on whether 
the page count goes up.

You can purchase the docs separately, and yes, I believe they are 
shipped from the U.K.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From mcmanusm at KramerGraphics.com  Thu Jul 17 09:25:00 2003
From: mcmanusm at KramerGraphics.com (Mike McManus)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:25:00 2003
Subject: Shell Problem - Windows
In-Reply-To: <00b301c27acd$771340b0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <66F58C1E-B861-11D7-B639-0003936C5FDE@kramergraphics.com>

I am having some major problems getting a return from windows shell 
commands. I wrote the stack on my mac OSX using shell commands...runs 
great, if at times a bit slow, because of the commands. After making a 
few tweaks for paths and such on windows(98 or NT). I compiled and 
tried it. It failed miserabley. I tried more changes, but got nowhere, 
so I downloaded the windows runrev, loaded it at started working from 
there. Without good results.

So to the message box I go. With the 2 shell commands below. The first 
one properly returns the directory as expected. The second returns 
nothing and no result. The path is correct

--works--
put shell("dir" && quote & "C:\Program Files\ImageMagick-5.5.7-Q16)
--does not work--
put shell(quote & "C:\Program Files\ImageMagick-5.5.7-Q16\identify" & 
quote  && "Z:\InFlight.tif")

in fact though I can get the correct response manually from the command 
line. I cannot using shell. I am almost certain it is either a timeout 
thing or some quoting thing I am missing. Anyone with lots of Windows 
command line experience? 



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 09:36:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:36:00 2003
Subject: What Gives?
In-Reply-To: <50FCC74E-B7DD-11D7-95B7-000A959C346E@hsj.com>
Message-ID: <0FF83ED4-B863-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 03:32  PM, Simtech Publications wrote:

> I'm finding that I can't use any keyboard shortcuts at all.

What happens if you just run Revolution and then press Command-M? (you 
should see the message box)

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 17 09:37:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:37:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.1
In-Reply-To: <OF7F40970C.F1865BE3-ON85256D66.004D5AB1@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <28922786-B863-11D7-A496-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Roger,

first let me say i hope that "Revolution 2.1" is not a typo from
the macgadget team :-)

> <snip>
>> Tranlation (from babelklaus ;-):
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Klaus Major
>> klaus at major-k.de
>> www.major-k.de
> <snip>
>
>
> When will "babelklaus.rev" be available to download from your website
> Klaus? ;-D

Well, since this is my personal "brain internal ;-)",
it will never make it to my site, sorry...

> Roger Eller
> roger.e.eller at sealedair.com

Regards

Klaus Major
(following the very exiting process of merging MC and RR
and the things that are coming...)

klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



P.S.
I like the new pricing scheme, but i also think that a "Revolution"
splash-screen IS a real showstopper in this region > 100 $.

OK its only 75 bucks for a limited tiome, but nevertheless...

P.P.S.
We need a RevPlayer (like the SuperCardPlayer)! ;-)
...and we want it pre-installed on EVERY new pc, mac or *nix box :-D



From steve at messimercomputing.com  Thu Jul 17 09:55:00 2003
From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Stephen Messimer)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:55:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307171309.JAA29679@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B8EE0CCA-B865-11D7-AF45-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>

Hi All,

Here's my 2 cents regarding the new pricing.

Frankly I think it is great.  I have been using Rev for the last 2 
years. It was difficult in the beginning to see the rationale for the 
steep pricing. Now it seems their initial pricing model has been 
vindicated.  What a new company's need to grow is capital. You can get 
it from you user base or you can get it from venture capitalists. If 
you do the latter they have a say in the development of the product. If 
you do the former you are freer to develop your product in ways that 
solve problems for your users.

Revolution continues to grow because they have their fiscal ship in 
good order. At the same time they are providing us with really great 
software. And they are doing this at an ever decreasing price point.

I have no complaints.  :-)   Keep up the good work Guys and Gals.

Cheers,

Steve

Stephen R. Messimer, PA
208 1st Ave. South	
Escanaba, MI 49829
www.messimercomputing.com



From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Thu Jul 17 09:57:01 2003
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:57:01 2003
Subject: Movie with a mask?
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716221235.00c6ce40@pop.wanadoo.fr>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:52:16 -0700, Richard Gaskin 
<ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:


>Peterson Trethewey wrote:
>
> > I need to play a movie with a mask, like a clip
> > region, or an alpha channel.  I figured out how to do
> > this sort of thing with a picture, but movies are
> > totally different.  Is it possible to tell a player to
> > do this?
>
>Yes: set the alwaysbuffer of the player to true, then lay any masked image
>over the player.

But what if the movie requires a different mask per frame? - imagine for 
example a windmill going round, so that the sails are in a different 
position in each frame, and you want the user to see the background behind 
the windmill except where the sails happen to be. Then AFAIKS you have to 
have a kind of movie mask - is this perhaps an alpha channel for the movie? 
I have tried to understand this in QT Pro but have got precisely nowhere. 
Information about how to do this sort of thing (including whether it's even 
possible) seems to me very hard to come by. My current solution is to avoid 
the problem by replacing the windmill with a spinning disk, but I would 
rather not.

Graham


---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  




From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Thu Jul 17 09:58:10 2003
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:58:10 2003
Subject: Controlling/comunicating w/ USB devices
In-Reply-To: <20030405091604.3B7C0B6FE@xmxpita.excite.com>
Message-ID: <BB3C7646.B414%benr_mc@cogapp.com>

on 4/5/03 10:16 AM, Thomas McCarthy wrote (on the Metacard list)

> Possible?
> 
> Tom McCarthy

but there were no replies.


Similarly on 7/4/03 2:36 pm, Sean at GndZero wrote (on the use-rev list):
> Is it possible to get/send commands from/to a USB
> device? How do I accomplish this?

as with others who've asked similar questions over the last eight months on
the use-rev list, he was pointed to the "open driver" command; but in all
cases, in followups asking for more info, examples, or a specific question
about the parameters to "open driver", answers have come there none - at
least on the list.

It would be unfair to quote one KM who wrote in January this year
> At present support for this isn't perfect (lack of documentation and support
> on OS X) but we're working on it and it shouldn't be long...

but oops I just did.  More generally, has anyone yet managed to communicate
with a USB device in MetaCard or Rev - and if so, could they share their
experience?

TIA
 
  Ben Rubinstein               |  Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com
  Cognitive Applications Ltd   |  Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600
  http://www.cogapp.com        |  Fax  : +44 (0)1273-728866



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 17 10:22:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 17 10:22:00 2003
Subject: Movie with a mask?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716221235.00c6ce40@pop.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <5E84A5C6-B869-11D7-A496-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Graham,

> ...
>> > totally different.  Is it possible to tell a player to
>> > do this?
>>
>> Yes: set the alwaysbuffer of the player to true, then lay any masked 
>> image
>> over the player.
>
> But what if the movie requires a different mask per frame? - imagine 
> for example
> a windmill going round, so that the sails are in a different position 
> in each frame,
> and you want the user to see the background behind the windmill except 
> where
> the sails happen to be. Then AFAIKS you have to have a kind of movie 
> mask - is
> this perhaps an alpha channel for the movie? I have tried to 
> understand this in QT
> Pro but have got precisely nowhere. Information about how to do this 
> sort of thing
> (including whether it's even possible) seems to me very hard to come 
> by.
> My current solution is to avoid the problem by replacing the windmill 
> with a
> spinning disk, but I would rather not.
>
> Graham

i don't think this is possible at all :-(

Neither with RR nor with QuickTime...

In QT you can only have one static mask (starting with version 5, i 
think...)

Haven't tried to play such a movie in RR yet. Don't have one at hand...
(Anyone did it? Does it work?)

Try to use one ore more animated gifs.

I think this is the only chance to have "moving masks"
(a.k.a. "travelling matte" in serious video-editing business ;-)
in Revolution.

Hope that helps.


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Jul 17 10:45:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Jul 17 10:45:01 2003
Subject: Movie with a mask?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716221235.00c6ce40@pop.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <BB3C110B.DA50%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Graham wrote:

>> Yes: set the alwaysbuffer of the player to true, then lay any masked image
>> over the player.
> 
> But what if the movie requires a different mask per frame? - imagine for
> example a windmill going round, so that the sails are in a different
> position in each frame, and you want the user to see the background behind
> the windmill except where the sails happen to be. Then AFAIKS you have to
> have a kind of movie mask - is this perhaps an alpha channel for the movie?
> I have tried to understand this in QT Pro but have got precisely nowhere.
> Information about how to do this sort of thing (including whether it's even
> possible) seems to me very hard to come by. My current solution is to avoid
> the problem by replacing the windmill with a spinning disk, but I would
> rather not.

If you don't have a lot of frames ('a lot' is a relative term) you could use
a series of PNG images which are masked as needed and swap them in sequence
in a button object.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Thu Jul 17 10:49:01 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Thu Jul 17 10:49:01 2003
Subject: Shell Problem - Windows
Message-ID: <200307171542.LAA29952@bright.unitz.ca>

> put shell("dir" && quote & "C:\Program
Files\ImageMagick-5.5.7-Q16)

did you try it with the closing QUOTE ?
did you try changing the shellCommand?

under NT i believe it's cmd.com, not command.com.. give that
a try

(BTW, geting the dir of my "c:\program files\" worked fine
under winXP home without having to set the shellCommand)..

also, have you taken a look at using the "detailed files" to
get your directory listing?


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 17 11:01:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 17 11:01:01 2003
Subject: Shell Problem - Windows
In-Reply-To: <66F58C1E-B861-11D7-B639-0003936C5FDE@kramergraphics.com>
Message-ID: <D32C94FF-B86E-11D7-B63C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 08:17 AM, Mike McManus wrote:

> --works--
> put shell("dir" && quote & "C:\Program Files\ImageMagick-5.5.7-Q16)

I assume the '" & quote ' got dropped.

> --does not work--
> put shell(quote & "C:\Program Files\ImageMagick-5.5.7-Q16\identify" & 
> quote  && "Z:\InFlight.tif")

Perhaps shell() does not allow a quoted command/program name.  Try 
start.  You may need to quote quote in that.  Use /, I think.

Dar scott
not really lots of command line experience




From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Thu Jul 17 11:56:01 2003
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu Jul 17 11:56:01 2003
Subject: What Goves?
In-Reply-To: <0D0977F2-B85C-11D7-B50D-00039374AB8C@hsj.com>
Message-ID: <8915E789-B876-11D7-81BB-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 06:39 AM, Bill Lynn wrote:

> As I continue to work with Rev 2.0.1 I'm discovering other quirks. For 
> example, when I transition to a card that contains a default button 
> the button magically appears on the starting card before the 
> transition begins.
>
> I understand that the the Rev people are at MacWorld Expo. Is anyone 
> from the company monitoring this list this week and can you address my 
> concerns?

This is not Rev's fault.  It is Apple's fault this happens.  Lets hope 
that Panther comes with a much better Carbon API to handle things like 
default buttons better.


Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From McManusM at KramerGraphics.com  Thu Jul 17 12:04:00 2003
From: McManusM at KramerGraphics.com (Mike McManus)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:04:00 2003
Subject: Shell Problem - Windows
Message-ID: <B46659EBDF26E94EA6F8C39E626A20F102AAE5@exchange.KramerGraphics.Com>

Yes I dropped the quote, sorry, I always seem to do that when I write. The dir listing does work. The next command does not. It is a shell command. The ImagaMagick program works via command line. Like I said wonderfully, on my OSX machine. The commands all work via the dos prompt in 98. And if I turn the hideconsule on, I see the window come up and then close. Just no result or return. Or completion of the command. Have quoted both the command and everything else I can think of at different times. But without some kind of result I am at a lose. When I do use the wrong command, the result comes back as a bad command. That much is good. But I really need the results in all cases.

Driving me crazy....since the program is done...except for it doesn't work on the Windows side!! arggghhhh!!

> ----------
> From: 	use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com on behalf of Dar Scott
> Reply To: 	use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Sent: 	Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:53 AM
> To: 	use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: 	Re: Shell Problem - Windows
> 
> 
> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 08:17 AM, Mike McManus wrote:
> 
> > --works--
> > put shell("dir" && quote & "C:\Program Files\ImageMagick-5.5.7-Q16)
> 
> I assume the '" & quote ' got dropped.
> 
> > --does not work--
> > put shell(quote & "C:\Program Files\ImageMagick-5.5.7-Q16\identify" & 
> > quote  && "Z:\InFlight.tif")
> 
> Perhaps shell() does not allow a quoted command/program name.  Try 
> start.  You may need to quote quote in that.  Use /, I think.
> 
> Dar scott
> not really lots of command line experience
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 17 12:04:21 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:04:21 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307170701.h6H71ns4007147@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <8D238BB2-B877-11D7-8996-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 01:01  AM, Howard Bornstein wrote:

>>
>> - They are also including more support with each license.
>
> Hmm. I'm not so sure. The Educational and Professional licenses 
> provide 1
> year technical email support. With the new licenses, Enterprise gives 
> you
> 10 incidents only (but it doesn't specify a time frame). No tech 
> support
> other than up-and-running for the others.

Hmm... you're right. Small Biz Edition only had mailing-list tech 
support, but now it has up-and-running. It's hard to compare though 
since all the license categories have changed.

Other questions for the list:

Is 2.0.2 available for download yet? It's on www.runrev.com but not the 
download page.

So what exactly is a feature update vs. a bug fix update? (One thing I 
hated about realbasic is that they release a free bug fix releases, 
what they call "beta", every few weeks or so, and they release 
"feature" pay-required upgrades multiple times per year. It's hard to 
keep up with that and license costs are unpredictable IMHO)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Thu Jul 17 12:05:02 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:05:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.1
In-Reply-To: <28922786-B863-11D7-A496-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <B217E6A6-B877-11D7-A2B4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Thursday, Jul 17, 2003, at 16:30 Europe/Vienna, Klaus Major wrote:

> P.S.
> I like the new pricing scheme, but i also think that a "Revolution"
> splash-screen IS a real showstopper in this region > 100 $.
>
Where did you find that?
What the price for the pro update..?
I did not see any info on the RR page...

> OK its only 75 bucks for a limited tiome, but nevertheless...
>
> P.P.S.
> We need a RevPlayer (like the SuperCardPlayer)! ;-)
> ...and we want it pre-installed on EVERY new pc, mac or *nix box :-D
Instead of the IE with license fee from M$...;))

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Jul 17 12:11:01 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:11:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307171502.LAA03772@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307171502.LAA03772@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb3c85bde790@[66.81.139.240]>

I can see an up-side to including the message "Made with Revolution"

It would appear that most of us on this list have good feelings about 
Run Rev.  It may not a bad idea to help spread the word.

I would have thought however that Run Rev might like to have the 
*option* of including this message. I expect someday to release some 
very bad software.

Jim


From McManusM at KramerGraphics.com  Thu Jul 17 12:18:01 2003
From: McManusM at KramerGraphics.com (Mike McManus)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:18:01 2003
Subject: Shell Problem - Windows
Message-ID: <B46659EBDF26E94EA6F8C39E626A20F102AAE6@exchange.KramerGraphics.Com>

Now more info. tried another of the imagemagick commands which I need. Still no result or response from the CLI, but the command did work and converted the file as I expect.

> ----------
> From: 	use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com on behalf of Mike McManus
> Reply To: 	use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Sent: 	Thursday, July 17, 2003 1:02 PM
> To: 	use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: 	RE: Shell Problem - Windows
> 
> Yes I dropped the quote, sorry, I always seem to do that when I write. The dir listing does work. The next command does not. It is a shell command. The ImagaMagick program works via command line. Like I said wonderfully, on my OSX machine. The commands all work via the dos prompt in 98. And if I turn the hideconsule on, I see the window come up and then close. Just no result or return. Or completion of the command. Have quoted both the command and everything else I can think of at different times. But without some kind of result I am at a lose. When I do use the wrong command, the result comes back as a bad command. That much is good. But I really need the results in all cases.
> 
> Driving me crazy....since the program is done...except for it doesn't work on the Windows side!! arggghhhh!!
> 
> > ----------
> > From: 	use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com on behalf of Dar Scott
> > Reply To: 	use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Sent: 	Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:53 AM
> > To: 	use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Subject: 	Re: Shell Problem - Windows
> > 
> > 
> > On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 08:17 AM, Mike McManus wrote:
> > 
> > > --works--
> > > put shell("dir" && quote & "C:\Program Files\ImageMagick-5.5.7-Q16)
> > 
> > I assume the '" & quote ' got dropped.
> > 
> > > --does not work--
> > > put shell(quote & "C:\Program Files\ImageMagick-5.5.7-Q16\identify" & 
> > > quote  && "Z:\InFlight.tif")
> > 
> > Perhaps shell() does not allow a quoted command/program name.  Try 
> > start.  You may need to quote quote in that.  Use /, I think.
> > 
> > Dar scott
> > not really lots of command line experience
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> > 
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 


From jiml at netrin.com  Thu Jul 17 12:18:31 2003
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:18:31 2003
Subject: Movie with a mask?
In-Reply-To: <200307171502.LAA03772@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBICMMKLOIPMPOLALAOEDHFEAA.jiml@netrin.com>

> But what if the movie requires a different mask per frame? - imagine
> for example
> a windmill going round, so that the sails are in a different position
> in each frame,
> and you want the user to see the background behind the windmill except
> where
> the sails happen to be.

As previously suggested animatedGIF or PNG.

Or, if the background upon which your movie is lain will always be the same,
just use an old trick - composite that backgroud right into your movie then
run it in an exactly-positioned rect - no mask needed.

jim lambert
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 17 12:29:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:29:00 2003
Subject: Shell Problem - Windows
In-Reply-To: <B46659EBDF26E94EA6F8C39E626A20F102AAE6@exchange.KramerGraphics.Com>
Message-ID: <1D0BDE85-B87B-11D7-B63C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:18 AM, Mike McManus wrote:

> Now more info. tried another of the imagemagick commands which I need. 
> Still no result or response from the CLI, but the command did work and 
> converted the file as I expect.

Maybe the command is writing to the console window in some nonstandard 
way.  Can you redirect the output to a file?

Dar Scott



From bvlahos at mac.com  Thu Jul 17 12:32:00 2003
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:32:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <85ED2346-B814-11D7-BB3A-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
Message-ID: <97A5B584-B87B-11D7-A8C4-000393C44AE0@mac.com>

I'm going to chime in that I also think the new pricing model is great. 
It is essentially what a number of us were asking for awhile ago.

To me the big news is the Express version. This becomes THE personal 
productivity tool for casual programers to write software for 
themselves. This joins a distinguished list of development environments 
(Applesoft Basic, MS DOS Basic, and HyperCard) but is available to 
everyone on any platform. This is incredible! I always thought the 
right price point should be in the $100 to $150 range and it is. These 
casual programmers likely will only develop on one platform and since 
it is for themselves, they won't care (at least initially) about 
building for other platforms.

Of course the beauty of this plan is that anyone who buys the Express 
version and wants to expand to other platforms can do so easily and 
cheaply by either upgrading to the Studio version or buying the Express 
version for the other platform(s) they want. Another option would be to 
collaborate with someone else who has a different platform and work 
together to build for multiple platforms. I think this is a win-win 
situation. The RunRev folks have sold software for multiple platforms 
to multiple people and the programmers can help each other which is 
also a good idea.

One of the other things I like about this plan is that upgrades to 
Studio and Enterprise version are easy to understand and have a clear 
set of benefits. If someone is really interested in doing more with 
Revolution they can and the prices are reasonable.

These intro prices are astounding and should become an impulse buy for 
a lot of people.

There are a few details the RunRev folks will need to clarify but I 
think this is terrific.

Viva la Revolution
Bill Vlahos



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 17 12:33:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:33:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.1
In-Reply-To: <B217E6A6-B877-11D7-A2B4-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <C09FCE17-B87B-11D7-A496-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Wolfgang,

> On Thursday, Jul 17, 2003, at 16:30 Europe/Vienna, Klaus Major wrote:
>
>> P.S.
>> I like the new pricing scheme, but i also think that a "Revolution"
>> splash-screen IS a real showstopper in this region > 100 $.
>>
> Where did you find that?

In a post from Curry today...

> What the price for the pro update..?

Sorry, no idea.

The only info i have is the news flash on www.macgadget.de.

> I did not see any info on the RR page...

Well, makes me wonder... ;-)

>> OK its only 75 bucks for a limited tiome, but nevertheless...
>>
>> P.P.S.
>> We need a RevPlayer (like the SuperCardPlayer)! ;-)
>> ...and we want it pre-installed on EVERY new pc, mac or *nix box :-D
> Instead of the IE with license fee from M$...;))

:-)

I heard that strange piece of software will still be in the app folder 
of Panther
but no alias in the dock pre-installed ;-)

> regards
> Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From degbert at mac.com  Thu Jul 17 12:55:00 2003
From: degbert at mac.com (David Egbert)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:55:00 2003
Subject: Does 2.02 fix CPU=100% issues?
Message-ID: <BB3C3D5B.8D6C%degbert@mac.com>

I'd like to know if the 2.02 update fixes the CPU pegging 100% on MacOS X
when opening stacks with custom properties.  I've got about 2 dozen stacks
that use custom properties extensively and all of them freeze the computer
when running the stacks.  The thought of rewriting all that code does not
make me very happy. :-(

Thanks.

--
Dave Egbert



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 17 12:56:13 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:56:13 2003
Subject: Controlling/comunicating w/ USB devices
In-Reply-To: <BB3C7646.B414%benr_mc@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <EFF08E22-B87E-11D7-B63C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 08:50 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote:

> More generally, has anyone yet managed to communicate
> with a USB device in MetaCard or Rev - and if so, could they share 
> their
> experience?

I don't know of any method to open a USB pipe with a simple byte stream 
open on any platform, but I have run tests on a USB-to-serial adaptor.  
Is that what you need?

Dar Scott



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Thu Jul 17 13:01:01 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Thu Jul 17 13:01:01 2003
Subject: What Gives?
References: <200307162158.RAA08633@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F16E289.3000901@pacbell.net>

Simtech Publications wrote:


 > I'm just getting back to Rev after a long absence, having fooled
 > around too long with Director MX for Mac OS X. Too bad Macromedia has
 > turned it's back on Mac users with that stinking lousy piece of beta
 > software. Anyway, I'm now running Rev 2.0.1 under OS X v10.2.6 and
 > it's acting extremely flakey (Rev not Jaguar). I mean EXTREMELY
 > flakey. At first I thought the problems were caused by having imported
 > older Rev 1.1.1 stacks into Rev 2.0.1 so I spent all day
 > reconstructing one particular stack. I'm finding that I can't use any
 > keyboard shortcuts at all. None. Can't navigate from the keyboard,
 > can't save the stack from the keyboard, can't toggle the message box.
 > Nothing. Nada. This is extremely frustrating. I thought it might be my
 > machine at work (an older slot loading 300 mHz G3 iMac) so I brought
 > the stack home and the same problems occurred on my brand new 1 GHz G4
 > iMac. I tried both the PPC and OS X versions of Rev 2.0.1 with the
 > same results.

Do you have a "commandKey" handler? Could be that handler is trapping 
all your keyboard commands. Be sure to select an edit tool (not the 
browser) to switch between "edit" and "run" mode.


Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jul 17 13:04:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Jul 17 13:04:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.1
In-Reply-To: <C09FCE17-B87B-11D7-A496-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BB3C314F.30D43%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Klaus Major wrote:

> I heard that strange piece of software will still be in the app folder
> of Panther but no alias in the dock pre-installed ;-)

Instead there will be a a new popup menu a la the old Apple menu or the
Start menu of Win/GNOME/KDE/Lindows/et al....

It just goes to show:  with sufficient feedback, the NeXT team driving OS X
can be flexible, step by slow step returning to either valuable elements of
Classic and/or industry-standard elements common to all GUIs.

For those of you who've taken advantage of Apple's OS X feedback page at
<http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/>, thank you.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Thu Jul 17 14:17:00 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Thu Jul 17 14:17:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <F9A62293-B82D-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com> 
References: <F9A62293-B82D-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <20030717191101.33475.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

[snip]
Geoff Canyon writes: 

> Responses below: 
> 
> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 12:10  AM, curry wrote: 
> 
>> I thought that everyone had agreed (about ten thousand times) that the 
>> great thing about Revolution and MetaCard is you develop on all 
>> platforms. We all know that developing on one platform for another 
>> without being able to make changes on both can be the pits.
> 
> Certainly true, but people have also been clamoring for a lower cost 
> option for hobbyists. Now one is available.

Excuse me?  The Starter Kit was already THE option for hobbyists! 

So, in the single OS versions, do we get a slimmed-down engine optimized for 
that OS? If we can develop only for one OS, why carry all the unused (and 
unusable) baggage for the others? 

Also, I can accept readily all the bugs in a Free version, but they're very 
hard to swallow in a paid version. (And please, don't tell me what a 
comparatively small bug count Rev has; it's really irrelevant.) 

miscdas 


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 17 14:53:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 17 14:53:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <20030717191101.33475.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <44C2C6B5-B88F-11D7-8996-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 01:10  PM, miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:

> So, in the single OS versions, do we get a slimmed-down engine 
> optimized for that OS? If we can develop only for one OS, why carry 
> all the unused (and unusable) baggage for the others?

When you need additional engines, the Distribution Builder downloads 
them for you, correct? So I'm unclear what you mean by "unused baggage"?

> Also, I can accept readily all the bugs in a Free version, but they're 
> very hard to swallow in a paid version. (And please, don't tell me 
> what a comparatively small bug count Rev has; it's really irrelevant.)

Hmm... your valuation of runrev's product is: not enough value to pay 
for the entry level version, not enough value to open any bug reports 
in bugzilla, but more than enough value to complain about it on list? I 
think you just want a free version on a silver platter.

I know I'll be buying two Studio licenses when Rev 2.1 comes out. (for 
two different companies).

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Thu Jul 17 15:18:00 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Thu Jul 17 15:18:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <200307172011.QAA01655@bright.unitz.ca>

considering you were already supposed to include a "some
parts copyright runrev/metacard blah blah" in your app
anyways.. does this mean we don't need to bother with that
any more consider you're gonna be spamming it anyways? 
feels very much like macromedia with their 2hr long
commercial at the end of director programs, unless you pay
them something like 10 bazillion pesos ;-)

----- Original Message Follows -----
> I can see an up-side to including the message "Made with
Revolution"


From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Jul 17 15:52:01 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu Jul 17 15:52:01 2003
Subject: New PRINTED Revolution Docs Now Available?
In-Reply-To: <62753115-B861-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <62753115-B861-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <1058474676.23878.221.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 16:17, Geoff Canyon wrote:
> I don't think the printed docs are available just yet, but they are in 
> the works. One problem with including them in every license is the 
> size: the last printed manuals were well over 1,000 pages in two or 
> three volumes. The new version has substantially more content, although 
> it has been reformatted to take up less space, so no bets on whether 
> the page count goes up.
> 
> You can purchase the docs separately, and yes, I believe they are 
> shipped from the U.K.
> 
> regards,
> 
> Geoff Canyon
> gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


Hello There,

Will it be an option to get the printed documentation available with the
Entreprise Edition license as  PDF files, we could get by downloading
them directly from the FTP server ?

Thanks.
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 17 16:28:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 17 16:28:01 2003
Subject: Linewidth of a graphic not working correct
In-Reply-To: <BB0CAD51.9A38%tkuypers@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <A0456842-B89C-11D7-B63C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 01:56 AM, tkuypers at pandora.be wrote:

> When changing the bordersize from an odd number to even, you the right 
> and
> bottom of this object are not set correctly, the line gets thicker, 
> but is 1
> pixels smaller than the actual rect... So, using a borderwidth of 1, 
> 3, 5,
> etc. works the way it is supposed to do, but 2, 4, 6, etc. gives a 
> visual
> discrepancy...)
>
> This makes it impossible to create exact images :-(

In a discussion on this issue, Scott Raney suggested the use of the 
borderWidth property as a workaround for rectangles.

I think this will work OK for rectangles on both Windows and OS X.  Set 
your lineSize to 0.  That is the size on the first page of the object 
inspector.  Set showBorder to true.  Set threeD to false.  Set the 
border size with borderWidth.

You may need to experiment with how that might apply to other objects.

(The meaning of the graphic properties of Revolution objects seems to 
be essentially a set of calls to the OS drawing API, the meaning of 
which--in terms of parameter meaning and rendering meanings--will vary 
slightly from platform to platform.  I don't expect this to change.)

Dar Scott



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 17 16:39:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 17 16:39:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <200307172131.h6HLVZF99587@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

I think I have figured out what has been bugging me about the new license structure. It's not the pricing - that looks very good for what you are getting. It's not the lack of a free version - that's also just fine. It's not even the limitations on cross platform development - it's the way they put it.

I don't think that they can honestly say that the studio product allows you to create applications for all supported platforms, since it's impossible to TEST the applications without using another one of the products. Also, isn't it impossible to build a Mac standalone under Windows or Linux? That means that if you want to deliver for the Mac you will need to buy at least a copy of Express to do so (for more than thirty days), unless they are planning to create a new "Macintosh Standalone Builder" that is runs on the Mac and does nothing but build Standalones from existing stacks that were developed elsewhere.

Overall, I think that the new pricing structure and restrictions are fair (the prices through August are MORE than fine - Studio, here I come!). I do think that that they need to make it very clear that there are actually many issues involved in delivering applications on other supported platforms when you are only allowed to develop and test on one.

Anyone heard anything about how all of this is going to affect the "headless" CGI engines?

Also, is there an upgrade path for anyone who purchased recently? I am currently fooling around with the educational version I got for my daughter (who's understanding of how to use RunRev is coming right along), but I am going to have to move to studio soon.


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 17 16:40:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 17 16:40:01 2003
Subject: Rendering fonts on Windows
Message-ID: <3F6D627A-B89E-11D7-B63C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

Nobody else seems to be having this problem, so I think there is 
something stupid I'm missing.

I can make a stack that looks nice on OS X and it looks crumby on 
Windows.

One of the problems is that fonts are rendered different sizes even 
when they are fonts available on both systems such as Courier New.  
Often the tops of letters are occasionally chopped off.  Also color is 
often applied only to the bottom of letters.  The same font will look 
ugly in a field but look OK in an editor.

What am I missing?

Dar Scott



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Thu Jul 17 17:02:00 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Thu Jul 17 17:02:00 2003
Subject: Rendering fonts on Windows
Message-ID: <200307172155.RAA14398@bright.unitz.ca>

everything looks bad on windows, so don't worry about it ;^)

----- Original Message Follows -----
> I can make a stack that looks nice on OS X and it looks
> crumby on  Windows.


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 17 17:14:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 17 17:14:00 2003
Subject: Rendering fonts on Windows
In-Reply-To: <3F6D627A-B89E-11D7-B63C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <0396EAB2-B8A3-11D7-9111-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 03:33  PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> Nobody else seems to be having this problem, so I think there is 
> something stupid I'm missing.
>
> I can make a stack that looks nice on OS X and it looks crumby on 
> Windows.
>
> One of the problems is that fonts are rendered different sizes even 
> when they are fonts available on both systems such as Courier New.  
> Often the tops of letters are occasionally chopped off.  Also color is 
> often applied only to the bottom of letters.  The same font will look 
> ugly in a field but look OK in an editor.
>
> What am I missing?

Dar, could it be related to the "Apply default font settings" and 
"Apply default colors" in the Distribution builder? Or otherwise 
related to Property Profiles?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 17 17:30:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 17 17:30:00 2003
Subject: Rendering fonts on Windows
In-Reply-To: <0396EAB2-B8A3-11D7-9111-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <3B817093-B8A5-11D7-B63C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 04:07 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> Dar, could it be related to the "Apply default font settings" and 
> "Apply default colors" in the Distribution builder?

I'm not using it in this case.

> Or otherwise related to Property Profiles?

Like I'm not using them!  LOL!

That may be a partial solution.  I might need to fiddle with fonts and 
sizes until I find something that doesn't get chopped up.

Related, maybe:  Sometimes when I bold a line on Windows, it just gets 
bigger.

Dar



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Thu Jul 17 17:33:01 2003
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (tkuypers at pandora.be)
Date: Thu Jul 17 17:33:01 2003
Subject: Linewidth of a graphic not working correct
In-Reply-To: <A0456842-B89C-11D7-B63C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CEF08.B079%tkuypers@pandora.be>

Dar,

As the poster of this bug, I think you misunderstood the problem. Probably I
just didn't explain it the right way...

When I create a graphic of 100x100 pixels and set the linewidth of it to 1,
3, 5, etc. pixels, the item shows its lines exactly at the size of 100
pixels. Just put a colored graphic without lines on top of it and you'll see
they match.

When you do the same thing with graphics having a linewidth of 2, 4, 6, etc.
pixels, the box you see (the right and bottom line) are moved 1 pixel to the
inside, so what you see is a box of 99x99 pixels.

In one of our projects the user can draw rectangles on screen, using a
user-definable grid. But because of this strange behaviour the drawn
rectangles will never be the correct size (so they won't touch each other)
when drawing within the grid. There will always be a gap of one pixel
between to rectangles...

I don't think this has to to anything with me being a newby, or rendering of
graphics, there is just something missing in the way these graphics are
drawn on screen... The visual boundaries (the 8 "resize" handles) shown on
screen are in the right position, just the lines aren't...

Hope this gives you the proper information to solve this, because I still
think this IS a bug...

Warm regards,

Ton Kuypers



> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:21:27 -0600
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Linewidth of a graphic not working correct
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 01:56 AM, tkuypers at pandora.be wrote:
> 
>> When changing the bordersize from an odd number to even, you the right
>> and
>> bottom of this object are not set correctly, the line gets thicker,
>> but is 1
>> pixels smaller than the actual rect... So, using a borderwidth of 1,
>> 3, 5,
>> etc. works the way it is supposed to do, but 2, 4, 6, etc. gives a
>> visual
>> discrepancy...)
>> 
>> This makes it impossible to create exact images :-(
> 
> In a discussion on this issue, Scott Raney suggested the use of the
> borderWidth property as a workaround for rectangles.
> 
> I think this will work OK for rectangles on both Windows and OS X.  Set
> your lineSize to 0.  That is the size on the first page of the object
> inspector.  Set showBorder to true.  Set threeD to false.  Set the
> border size with borderWidth.
> 
> You may need to experiment with how that might apply to other objects.
> 
> (The meaning of the graphic properties of Revolution objects seems to
> be essentially a set of calls to the OS drawing API, the meaning of
> which--in terms of parameter meaning and rendering meanings--will vary
> slightly from platform to platform.  I don't expect this to change.)
> 
> Dar Scott
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 



From curry at pair.com  Thu Jul 17 17:36:00 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Thu Jul 17 17:36:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307171854.OAA12805@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307171854.OAA12805@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb3cc41400b0@[68.86.46.40]>

Well, after considering for a while and after reading what other 
people said, the new model doesn't seem so terrible. I'm sure my 
first reaction to the news was too dramatic and things will be okay. 
:-)

At first glance it looked pretty scary, but then finally I realized 
that it might not affect existing customers all that much. So I think 
there was no need for the boat analogy! Sorry about that.

(However, I do still strongly oppose the "Made with" screen idea. Not 
because I don't want to promote Rev, but the place for that is in the 
About box and ReadMe. The problem with the promo screen is that it 
makes your finished software, if you do shareware or commercial 
software, look less professional. And that doesn't help anyone.)

But I'd like to know, what to others think about the Studio edition? 
To me, it just doesn't seem useful to do other platforms without 
being able to edit. And if the ten-line Starter Kit is no more (?) 
then that would be even more true! Another interesting thing will be 
whether Mac Classic and OSX are the same platform or different as far 
as licensing and editing goes.

So, I'll stop yakking now and get to work!

Curry


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jul 17 17:54:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu Jul 17 17:54:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00bb3cc41400b0@[68.86.46.40]>
References: <200307171854.OAA12805@www.runrev.com> <a05111b00bb3cc41400b0@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <3F172745.8070207@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/17/03 5:26 PM, curry wrote:

> Well, after considering for a while and after reading what other people 
> said, the new model doesn't seem so terrible. I'm sure my first reaction 
> to the news was too dramatic and things will be okay. :-)
> 
> At first glance it looked pretty scary, but then finally I realized that 
> it might not affect existing customers all that much. So I think there 
> was no need for the boat analogy! Sorry about that.
> 
> (However, I do still strongly oppose the "Made with" screen idea. Not 
> because I don't want to promote Rev, but the place for that is in the 
> About box and ReadMe. The problem with the promo screen is that it makes 
> your finished software, if you do shareware or commercial software, look 
> less professional. And that doesn't help anyone.)
> 
> But I'd like to know, what to others think about the Studio edition? To 
> me, it just doesn't seem useful to do other platforms without being able 
> to edit.

I guess the way I'd handle this would be to buy a studio license for one 
platform and also an express copy for your second platform. This will 
allow you to edit stacks on both operating systems. Once you know the 
stack is working okay in both places and you are ready to build your 
standalone, build them both with the studio edition, which will build 
for any platform and doesn't include the Rev "made with" screen.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 17 18:04:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 17 18:04:00 2003
Subject: Linewidth of a graphic not working correct
In-Reply-To: <BB3CEF08.B079%tkuypers@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <ECD1C6D4-B8A9-11D7-B63C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 04:25 PM, tkuypers at pandora.be wrote:

> Hope this gives you the proper information to solve this, because I 
> still
> think this IS a bug...

Oh, I don't like it either.  RunRev has labeled the bug, _invalid_, and 
we need to live with that.

I provided two workarounds on this list, the most recent the better, I 
think--if you can live with different properties for color and line 
width.  Give it a try.

Dar Scott



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 17 18:11:01 2003
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Thu Jul 17 18:11:01 2003
Subject: license renewal pricing
In-Reply-To: <20030717105533.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>
Message-ID: <E02A3D62-B8AA-11D7-A76A-0003936D5826@earthlink.net>

The website says:

 >>>> Information about renewal terms, updates, and pricing will be 
available here shortly

Does this mean that there will be a lower price for people who already 
purchased the Professional Edition last year but who have not yet 
renewed it (no need at present, I'm still developing in 1.1)?

Marian
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From curry at pair.com  Thu Jul 17 18:35:00 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Thu Jul 17 18:35:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307171309.JAA29679@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307171309.JAA29679@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b02bb3cd3a7a731@[68.86.46.40]>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

>Obviously REALbasic and Revolution aren't interchangeable, but playing
>along for a moment, the Express edition is currently $75, and it
>includes access to MySQL, PostgreSQL, and other databases.

Yeah, I don't mean they are interchangeable, far from it and you 
wouldn't believe how happy I am to be using Transcript rather than 
M$-style BASIC, besides some other things; the reason I mentioned it 
is because there are a lot of similarities in the pricing levels and 
platform restrictions now. (I'm ignoring the intro specials for the 
purpose of comparison, just as I would if it were the other way 
around and RB offering a special.)

But actually, depending on what the new Rev upgrade fees will be, 
although it starts off higher, Revolution will probably end up 
cheaper for Enterprise users in the long term--RB Pro is 640 for each 
one-year subscription, and I assume that's only editing on one 
platform for two, while Enterprise is editing on three for three! 
(Plus all the Unix varieties.) Definitely cheaper when we compare RB 
Pro subscription with Rev Studio, which are more similar for editing 
capabilities, assuming the one feature upgrade covers about the same.

Heh heh--so maybe Rev could list some example subscriptions savings 
and feature advantages compared with RB over time periods! :-D

Express is intended for hobbyists.

But multiple copies might look good to people who don't fancy editing 
on one platform for another with the Studio version. I think Express 
should be *substantially* above the level to show a promo screen at 
the end, and doing so will hurt both parties.

A version of Rev for 35, 50, or 75 dollars with the promo screen and 
a license to make freeware only, maybe no database and other features 
like sockets, password protection, etc., could make sense to replace 
the time-unlimited Starter Kit. I bet that would appeal to some 
people!

>Teachers and kids would be eligible for the educational discount, so it
>would not be $150. During the introduction it's not even $75.

Well, that's why I said "kids" rather than just students; kids at 
home buy IDEs too.

Best wishes,

Curry


From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Thu Jul 17 18:46:01 2003
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Thu Jul 17 18:46:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <FAAA5038-B8AF-11D7-9085-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

Some questions I did not see answered on the Rev site nor asked here so 
far as I have seen:

- What will be the licence renewal costs in the new pricing model, 
aside from support packages?

- Does RR have a specific major release program? This affects the 
economics of selecting Studio vs Enterprise versions, for example. I 
refer also to Alex's experience of RB.

- If you buy Studio and two major releases occur within a year, what is 
the upgrade cost to the second of them.

- Is there in fact a renewal fee for Studio or Express other than 
paying for new versions? If not, does that mean Studio becomes 
Super-Express after the included upgrade?

- What will be the transition arrangements from existing licences to 
new licences when the old licence falls due?

On the general question of new pricing, my view is somewhat agnostic. 
RR makes offers to the market place and we buy or we don't. I hope for 
lower prices and I want RR to stay in business to continue innovating. 
I buy Macs, too.
Withal, it looks a reasonably structured offer, given more complete 
information on what happens next.

regards
David



From david at kwinter.ca  Thu Jul 17 18:50:01 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Thu Jul 17 18:50:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing and New PRINTED Revolution Docs
In-Reply-To: <OFEF19EB8C.C37679FB-ON85256D66.004ACB50@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <BB3C9089.1AA6%david@kwinter.ca>

Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant! Who didn't go to the book store in the
early days of their computing lives? Has anyone noticed how many Java books
there are? RunRev absolutely has got to get a book w/CD in every big box
book store. Have REVOLUTION printed proudly on the spine and throw an
evaluation edition w/user contributions on the CD.

WRT the new pricing, it seems reasonable, but the studio edition makes Rev
seem a little more reliable & predictable than it is. Even the best
programmers need to debug & reformat their apps natively on each platform
and having additional express licenses is really awkward.

IMHO when your product's key feature is cross-platform development,
isolating platforms on the beginner licenses is not the way to go. Scrap the
10-liner starter kit for the 30 day evaluation. And keep the SBE and
professional as they were.


Personally, I'm sticking with 1.1.1 for its beautifully tabbed properties
palette : )  until Rev supports SSH (I heard in v2.5 a while back), then
I'll upgrade.

David Kwinter


On 7/17/03 7:55 AM, "Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com"
<Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com> wrote:

> Ok, here goes my 2 cents worth:
> 
> If RunRev seriously sees the need to make changes to bring in "new
> business", newbie programmers are constantly checking out the programming
> section of major book stores. In 199x, I was seeking a language that I
> could understand without taking tech school courses in c++ or perl, etc.
> That is where I first learned of the existence of HyperCard (Brady was the
> author), and I bought these books. The nice thing about this was the
> attached cd that was chock-full of example scripts. My point is this:
> RunRev could simply provide e-Documentation with ALL variations of their
> licenses, but in addition to this, put this wonderful bundle of books ON
> THE SHELVES for would-be programmers to find. Including an evaluation
> version and some examples on a cd wouldn't be a bad idea either. It's
> difficult to imagine, but there are people who aren't online yet.
> 
> Roger Eller
> roger.e.eller at sealedair.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From joe.gardner at nwa.com  Thu Jul 17 19:05:00 2003
From: joe.gardner at nwa.com (Gardner, Joseph A)
Date: Thu Jul 17 19:05:00 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1595, 1598, 1599, 1600, and 1602
Message-ID: <AF45F70949BC0345941B805B32299702042EA914@fmmspj35.pad.nwa.com>

Apologies in advance, but our new e-mail "security" software (Symantec Mail Security, if you would like to know) made mincemeat out of the above digests. Could some kind soul forward copies of these digests to me? I'm a real stickler for completeness sometimes...

Many thanks!

joe.

p.s. Here's what I got instead of the digest text (for the curious):

> Symantec Mail Security replaced Message Body with this text message.  The original file was unscannable and was deleted.
> 
> 


From SEGALOW at vax2.concordia.ca  Thu Jul 17 19:06:01 2003
From: SEGALOW at vax2.concordia.ca (SEGALOW at vax2.concordia.ca)
Date: Thu Jul 17 19:06:01 2003
Subject: Away on a trip
Message-ID: <01KYDLK4PPKY0019FE@vax2.concordia.ca>

Salutation:

     Body of message you want sent to the email originator

Signature


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 17 19:22:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 17 19:22:01 2003
Subject: unclear on the concept, or major report printing bugs?
Message-ID: <E7FDC2CE-B8B4-11D7-9111-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

create a mainstack "main"
add a field "news" with lot of text in it to card 1 of "main"
create a substack "report"
add a report object to card 1 of "report"
in the report object properties select field "news" of stack "main", 
then click Apply
now report object magically turns into a field? (OK- I assume that's 
supposed to happen)
now resize the report object height to fit it's content (several pages 
tall)
resize stack "report" to fit the report object  (several pages tall)
open Report Builder on stack "report" and use default settings
click Print Report
--
what is output is:
1 full page, with a the bottom line of text chopped in half. margins OK 
on page 1.
the second page is 75% empty space, with some text at the bottom 
running off the page.
it should have been 4 or 5 pages.


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Jul 17 19:26:01 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu Jul 17 19:26:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <FAAA5038-B8AF-11D7-9085-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
References: <FAAA5038-B8AF-11D7-9085-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <1058487486.24874.25.camel@www.kmax.net>

Just to say the new price strategy seems me very impressive ! Rev
available in tree formats, from the hobbysts to the professionals needs,
and best, this modern RR/MC technology available for less than the US $
99 needed to get Hypercard 2.41...

Please, RR Team : let us, now, know what will be the new renewal policy
:-)
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 19:47:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Thu Jul 17 19:47:00 2003
Subject: variables, arrays, or custom properties
In-Reply-To: <3F160235.3020904@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <20030718003950.28892.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
wrote:
> On 7/16/03 4:32 PM, erik hansen wrote:
> 
> > they used to say that globals were
> > too volatile to rely on very long, so i have
> > been saving to disk after each change.
> 
> I don't know if I'd call them volatile,
> particularly. The only danger is 
> if another stack uses the same variable name,
> which would allow it to 
> change the value when you might not expect it.
> If you give your globals 
> distinctive names and don't reuse those names
> in other stacks, there 
> isn't any danger. Richard's stack-naming
> example works well with globals 
> too; if your stack's name is "MyStack," then
> prefix all its globals with 
> "gMS" or some other identifier, which reduces
> the chance that some other 
> stack will reuse it.

sounds like a good system.
i still worry about crashes.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From dan at shafermedia.com  Thu Jul 17 20:32:01 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu Jul 17 20:32:01 2003
Subject: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR
Message-ID: <B1C0C886-B8BE-11D7-9117-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

I have whiled away many hours in the past three days trying to find the 
most efficient and effective way to go from a Microsoft Word .doc file 
to a reasonably clean, standards-compliant (or at least not 
standards-defiant) HTML format. I have discovered several ways to do 
this, none of which approaches satisfactory.

But that point is only semi-relevant to my point. I provide it only as 
background.

One of the approaches I tried was to save the Word file in RTF. While 
not an industry standard, RTF is at least well-documented and supported 
quite well by every major (and most minor) word processor on the 
market. Since RR has an RTFText property for fields, I decided to give 
it a go.

RTFText supports a tiny subset of the RTF file format. The docs list 
the formatting controls in RTF that are supported by RR. Out of 
something like 1300 control words in the RTF spec, RR supports 
approximately 30. The support is so thin that even a fairly simple book 
chapter -- which includes things like bulleted lists, code samples, and 
four-level headings, renders quite poorly and unusably.

That's OK. The docs are quite clear, so you know what you're getting. 
I'm hoping someday the RR team or some third party will get around to a 
serious RTF control because, candidly, using nicely formatted text in 
RR fields is virtually impossible at the moment, which makes it a poor 
medium for me to use for my project.

The RTFText docs say, "To export and re-import field information 
without losing any style information, use the htmlText property 
instead."

So I tried that. I opened an RTF file and set the htmlText of a field 
to the contents of that file. Imagine my surprise when I not only 
didn't see a formatted version of my chapter text, but instead I saw 
only RTF commands. And at that, only a small number of them from the 
first few dozen lines of the RTF file.

On reflection, I should not have been surprised. After all, setting the 
htmlText of a field should probably only work if I open a file 
containing HTML and read it, right? That does work, at least marginally 
well and within the constraints of htmlText property as spelled out in 
the docs.

My reluctant conclusion is that applications that rely heavily on 
richly formatted text are not a candidate for RR development. That's a 
HUGE disappointment but the good news is those aren't the only kinds of 
apps I'm interested in building.

Back to the drawing board.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jul 17 20:58:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Jul 17 20:58:01 2003
Subject: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR
In-Reply-To: <B1C0C886-B8BE-11D7-9117-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CA048.30D90%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> So I tried that. I opened an RTF file and set the htmlText of a field
> to the contents of that file. Imagine my surprise when I not only
> didn't see a formatted version of my chapter text, but instead I saw
> only RTF commands. And at that, only a small number of them from the
> first few dozen lines of the RTF file.

Try setting the rtfText of the field.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Jul 17 21:11:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Jul 17 21:11:00 2003
Subject: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR
In-Reply-To: <B1C0C886-B8BE-11D7-9117-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CA3B1.DA69%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I have whiled away many hours in the past three days trying to find the
> most efficient and effective way to go from a Microsoft Word .doc file
> to a reasonably clean, standards-compliant (or at least not
> standards-defiant) HTML format.
> ...
> My reluctant conclusion is that applications that rely heavily on
> richly formatted text are not a candidate for RR development. That's a
> HUGE disappointment but the good news is those aren't the only kinds of
> apps I'm interested in building.

You chose one of the worst formats to work with.  Word documents include a
severe amount of proprietary formatting (garbage characters) which make them
almost impossible to reliably parse.  Your best bet would be to try one of
the simpler text formats that Word can save out, but besides RTF I don't
know which formats include style information.  I seem to recall Word having
the ability to save documents in HTML format -- are you trying to solve a
specific problem?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 21:17:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 21:17:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307172011.QAA01655@bright.unitz.ca>
Message-ID: <ED1FC05D-B8C4-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 01:11  PM, Shao Sean wrote:

> considering you were already supposed to include a "some
> parts copyright runrev/metacard blah blah" in your app
> anyways.. does this mean we don't need to bother with that
> any more consider you're gonna be spamming it anyways?
> feels very much like macromedia with their 2hr long
> commercial at the end of director programs, unless you pay
> them something like 10 bazillion pesos ;-)

I haven't seen the notice, but it's supposed to be brief -- a few 
seconds. Bear in mind that this is only part of the Express edition, 
which is designed for hobbyists. Commercial developers should be using 
Studio at least. This is not a requirement, just a judgment based on 
the presence of the RunRev splash screen.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 21:18:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 21:18:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00bb3cc41400b0@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <03E00602-B8C5-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 03:26  PM, curry wrote:

> (However, I do still strongly oppose the "Made with" screen idea. Not 
> because I don't want to promote Rev, but the place for that is in the 
> About box and ReadMe. The problem with the promo screen is that it 
> makes your finished software, if you do shareware or commercial 
> software, look less professional. And that doesn't help anyone.)

Commercial developers should buy Studio at least.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Thu Jul 17 21:22:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu Jul 17 21:22:01 2003
Subject: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR
In-Reply-To: <B1C0C886-B8BE-11D7-9117-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEDJDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> My reluctant conclusion is that applications that rely heavily on
> richly formatted text are not a candidate for RR development. That's a
> HUGE disappointment but the good news is those aren't the only kinds of
> apps I'm interested in building.
>
> Back to the drawing board.
>
Hi Dan

It's true that it's very hard to import formatted text from other apps into
Rev. But that doesn't mean that Rev can't be used for app development that
relies on formatted text. I use my xmlText library to provide a style sheet.
Then I markup plain text in a very basic xml. This allows for changing the
style very simply. Even the user can change the styles.

The only thing lacking is a text editor that can apply the styles in an easy
way. I've been thinking about it but I can't work out how to relate the
selected chunk to the same chunk in the xmlText. I guess I could maintain a
list of chunks and associated text styles and then apply them all every time
the text is edited but that seems like overkill. I'm sure there's a way.
Perhaps if I also had a reference to where the chunk was in the xmlText it
would reduse the edit time load. I guess each chunk reference would still
need to be parsed the ensure there was no crossover and nesting issues were
sorted out. Perhaps if the chunk references were stored in order even these
issues could be resolved quickly.... Hmm... Starting to think out loud ;-)

It should also be noted that whilst Rev is poor at accepting RTFText from
other apps it does work well going the other way. Therefore a decent text
editor in rev could cover all bases. My suggestion would be to dedicate a
chapter in your book to the problem and development of a solution. I'd be
very happy for you to use xmlText as a component.

Cheers

Monte



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Jul 17 22:01:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Jul 17 22:01:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <1030718073919.3f171787.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.80048@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <FFC20B3A-B8CA-11D7-8162-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> I don't think that they can honestly say that the studio product 
> allows you to create applications for all supported platforms, since 
> it's impossible to TEST the applications without using another one of 
> the products.
I work 99.9999% of my time with Mac OS X. I have built a couple of apps 
for Windows and each time have only had two problems: display 
differences which can be seen by running the app, and script errors 
caused by my using Mac-only characters like not-equals instead of <>. 
So for me, it seems much less wasteful to pay only for one platform and 
I would imagine that most people concentrate on one platform for 
development.

>  Also, isn't it impossible to build a Mac standalone under Windows or 
> Linux? That means that if you want to deliver for the Mac you will 
> need to buy at least a copy of Express to do so (for more than thirty 
> days), unless they are planning to create a new "Macintosh Standalone 
> Builder" that is runs on the Mac and does nothing but build 
> Standalones from existing stacks that were developed elsewhere.
It is impossible to build for Mac OS 9 or less from non-Mac platforms 
since the files require resource forks which are not handled by non-Mac 
file systems. As of Rev 2.0, it is possible to build for Mac OS X from 
any platform.
>
> Overall, I think that the new pricing structure and restrictions are 
> fair (the prices through August are MORE than fine - Studio, here I 
> come!). I do think that that they need to make it very clear that 
> there are actually many issues involved in delivering applications on 
> other supported platforms when you are only allowed to develop and 
> test on one.
Actually, I though Geoff's plan of buying a Studio version for normal 
use, plus an Express version for cross-platform debugging, sounded like 
the way to go it you do a lot of cross-platform stuff. Remember that 
after you debug, you can re-compile using your Studio version, so you 
don't get the Made with Rev at the end.

For my purposes, I have always wanted MySQL access which meant I had to 
buy big bucks for the Pro edition. For me, the Studio edition is going 
to be perfect and save me heaps. Any technical support I needed, I have 
found on this list and although I got the printed manuals, they rapidly 
became out of date, so I stick to the built-in docs. (For casual 
reading, I'd love a version that could go on to my Palm. If anyone has 
any great ideas how to do that, let me know.)

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/




From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Thu Jul 17 22:13:02 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Thu Jul 17 22:13:02 2003
Subject: Shell Problem - Windows
In-Reply-To: <B46659EBDF26E94EA6F8C39E626A20F102AAE6@exchange.KramerGraphics.Com>
References: <B46659EBDF26E94EA6F8C39E626A20F102AAE6@exchange.KramerGraphics.Com>
Message-ID: <20030718120537.33CD.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

<reformat reason="long lines">
> Now more info. tried another of the imagemagick commands which I need.
> Still no result or response from the CLI, but the command did work and
> converted the file as I expect.
</reformat>

What result were you expecting, and how are you expecting to get the
result into your program?

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Jul 17 22:18:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu Jul 17 22:18:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00bb3cc41400b0@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEGECNAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Here's the only objection I have...and it's a big one.
The Made With Screen...

And here's why.

This same screen killed professional development for Macromedia Director.
Because so many hack-job Director games and projects were created...each
with the "Made by Director" stamp, it severely tarnished its reputation. We
had a number of clients who emphatically didn't want their Edutatainment
products developed in Director, because of this exact stigma --even though
we had done award winning CD-ROM's for Mattel and the Discovery Channel
using Director. We eventually gave up using Director. So has everyone else.

So, what can we expect *others* to think when they see the "Made with
Revolution" logo on 'newbie' type projects? That all Rev projects are like
this, and of the same caliber??? This is one of the reasons I originally
chose RR, because it *didn't* have this stigma.

Now, I'm not trying to denigrate or belittle newbie RR programmers at
all...it's just one would expect RR to want to splash their logo on the
*best* of it's developer's work...not the beginners. I think the ABOUT box
(the way it is currently) is just fine.

-Chipp




From david at kwinter.ca  Thu Jul 17 22:27:01 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Thu Jul 17 22:27:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEGECNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CC37E.1ABB%david@kwinter.ca>

> So, what can we expect *others* to think when they see the "Made with
> Revolution" logo on 'newbie' type projects? That all Rev projects are like
> this, and of the same caliber???

Agreed, perhaps a democratic show of hands can convince RR to reconsider the
splash screen.

I'll be #2



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jul 17 23:04:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu Jul 17 23:04:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEGECNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEGECNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <3F177021.6050009@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/17/03 10:09 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Here's the only objection I have...and it's a big one.
> The Made With Screen...
> 
> And here's why.
> 
> This same screen killed professional development for Macromedia Director.
> Because so many hack-job Director games and projects were created...each
> with the "Made by Director" stamp, it severely tarnished its reputation. We
> had a number of clients who emphatically didn't want their Edutatainment
> products developed in Director, because of this exact stigma --even though
> we had done award winning CD-ROM's for Mattel and the Discovery Channel
> using Director. We eventually gave up using Director. So has everyone else.

Hm. I hadn't thought of that. Poorly-designed beginner stacks are what 
gave HyperCard a bad name too, and eventually killed it. You have a good 
point.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jul 17 23:11:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Jul 17 23:11:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEGECNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CBF82.30DB0%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:

> Here's the only objection I have...and it's a big one.
> The Made With Screen...
> 
> And here's why.
> 
> This same screen killed professional development for Macromedia Director.
> Because so many hack-job Director games and projects were created...each
> with the "Made by Director" stamp, it severely tarnished its reputation. We
> had a number of clients who emphatically didn't want their Edutatainment
> products developed in Director, because of this exact stigma --even though
> we had done award winning CD-ROM's for Mattel and the Discovery Channel
> using Director. We eventually gave up using Director. So has everyone else.
> 
> So, what can we expect *others* to think when they see the "Made with
> Revolution" logo on 'newbie' type projects? That all Rev projects are like
> this, and of the same caliber??? This is one of the reasons I originally
> chose RR, because it *didn't* have this stigma.
> 
> Now, I'm not trying to denigrate or belittle newbie RR programmers at
> all...it's just one would expect RR to want to splash their logo on the
> *best* of it's developer's work...not the beginners. I think the ABOUT box
> (the way it is currently) is just fine.

Chipp raises an excellent point, and has the experience to back it up.  He
knows what he's talking about.

I had no opinion about the splash screen until I read his post.  Now I must
add my voice to those who think it's not in the best interests of the
product or the company.

Vive la R?volution!

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jul 17 23:29:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu Jul 17 23:29:00 2003
Subject: What Gives?
In-Reply-To: <50FCC74E-B7DD-11D7-95B7-000A959C346E@hsj.com>
References: <50FCC74E-B7DD-11D7-95B7-000A959C346E@hsj.com>
Message-ID: <3F1775D1.2010807@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/16/03 5:32 PM, Simtech Publications wrote:

> I'm finding that I can't use any keyboard shortcuts at all.

I just saw this over at MacFixit -- could this be the problem?

<start quote>
Thursday, July 17 2003 @ 08:00 AM PDT
Troubleshooting Security Update 2003-07-14 (#4): Universal Access and 
preferences 	

Universal access and preferences If you have Universal Access turned on 
from its preference pane, and Zoom turned on under the Seeing tab, the 
installation of Security Update 2003-7-14 may turn on Sticky Keys under 
the Keyboard tab.

MacFixIt reader Kate writes "This results in a very frustrating 'why 
don't my command-key combinations work?' which is easily resolved by 
turning off the Sticky Keys option. Similarly, the installation turns on 
'enable text-to-speech for universal access preferences.'
<end quote>

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Jul 17 23:43:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu Jul 17 23:43:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307171309.JAA29660@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CC867.1D64%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Bernard,

> From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com
> Date: 17 Jul 2003 09:55:33 -0000
> Subject: Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

> In fact, as someone who has no use for these drivers, but who wishes to target
> multiple platforms, I fall squarely into the camp of the 'losers'.
----------
How so? The new pricing and names indicate that the "Studio" version
replaces the SBE and includes "All supported platforms" .

Ken N.



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 17 23:47:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 23:47:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bb3c85bde790@[66.81.139.240]>
Message-ID: <D6AA38F1-B8D9-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 10:03  AM, Jim Hurley wrote:

> I would have thought however that Run Rev might like to have the 
> *option* of including this message. I expect someday to release some 
> very bad software.

There _is_ an option: Studio or Enterprise ;-)

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 00:11:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 00:11:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <20030717191101.33475.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <2F540864-B8DD-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 12:10  PM, miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:

> Excuse me?  The Starter Kit was already THE option for hobbyists!
> So, in the single OS versions, do we get a slimmed-down engine 
> optimized for that OS? If we can develop only for one OS, why carry 
> all the unused (and unusable) baggage for the others?
> Also, I can accept readily all the bugs in a Free version, but they're 
> very hard to swallow in a paid version. (And please, don't tell me 
> what a comparatively small bug count Rev has; it's really irrelevant.)

The Starter Kit was great for anyone who had the open-mindedness to 
look beyond the popular conception of what can be done in ten lines of 
code and the perseverance to work within the actual confines of that 
limit.

Ten lines of code is a very fuzzy limitation, because you can't know 
ahead of time how clever you'll be at building within that limit, and 
you can't even have a marginally accurate conception until you've used 
Revolution extensively.

The limitations on Express, on the other hand, are conceptually clean 
and simple; anyone can grasp what they're getting without any 
experience of Revolution at all.

Finally, bugs are always hard to swallow, but I find it's much easier 
with a nice chocolate sauce ;-)

Seriously -- _no_ product is bug-free. Revolution works hard to move 
toward that unattainable goal.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 00:15:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 00:15:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307172131.h6HLVZF99587@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <C685FB98-B8DD-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 05:31  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> I don't think that they can honestly say that the studio product 
> allows you to create applications for all supported platforms, since 
> it's impossible to TEST the applications without using another one of 
> the products.

You have a point, but: show of hands -- who here has built an app for 
another platform without ever testing on that platform and had it just 
work? And who has had the exact opposite experience; serious 
platform-specific issues that required working on that platform to fix?

> Also, isn't it impossible to build a Mac standalone under Windows or 
> Linux? That means that if you want to deliver for the Mac you will 
> need to buy at least a copy of Express to do so (for more than thirty 
> days), unless they are planning to create a new "Macintosh Standalone 
> Builder" that is runs on the Mac and does nothing but build 
> Standalones from existing stacks that were developed elsewhere.

You can build for OS X on other platforms, just not for OS <=9. 
Obviously this issue is getting smaller as time passes.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Jul 18 00:19:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri Jul 18 00:19:01 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <200307180214.WAA26168@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CD0F0.1D84%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

 I recently looked over a really cool SuperCard project from Fourth World
called "peeker" that demos using a graphic to magnify whatever is under it
in the window.

Is that thing yours, Richard?

Anyway, I'd like to implement something like it in Rev.

Any ideas...?

Ken N.



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 00:21:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 00:21:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <a05111b02bb3cd3a7a731@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <97612AFE-B8DE-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 04:25  PM, curry wrote:

> Well, that's why I said "kids" rather than just students; kids at home 
> buy IDEs too.

I believe anyone under the age of 18 qualifies for the educational 
discount, regardless of their educational status -- assuming they don't 
want to release for money.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 00:23:02 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 00:23:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <FAAA5038-B8AF-11D7-9085-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <EF6884F1-B8DE-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 04:39  PM, David Vaughan wrote:

> Some questions I did not see answered on the Rev site nor asked here 
> so far as I have seen:

Answers are coming.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From curry at pair.com  Fri Jul 18 00:52:00 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Fri Jul 18 00:52:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307180214.WAA26192@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307180214.WAA26192@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb3d34e09788@[68.86.46.40]>

>  > (However, I do still strongly oppose the "Made with" screen idea. Not
>  > because I don't want to promote Rev, but the place for that is in the
>  > About box and ReadMe. The problem with the promo screen is that it
>  > makes your finished software, if you do shareware or commercial
>  > software, look less professional. And that doesn't help anyone.)
>
>Commercial developers should buy Studio at least.

Well, perhaps this has the potential to get into a "Is so!"-"Is not!" 
type conversation :-) but I would hesitate to make such a generality. 
If a commercial developer doesn't like Studio because of its 
behavior, then it's either Enterprise, Studio + Express, or two 
Expresses.

Studio + Express doesn't sound so smooth, because they have different 
upgrade policies and you would either have to not update Studio so 
much or get a new Express often to keep up--so the price wouldn't be 
that great in the long run. Also, it's nice to really do the final 
compile on the platform too. So to me, if not for the splash screen, 
the two Expresses would look better than Studio.

I'm still not sure if any of that will affect me or not, depending on 
the new upgrade routes, I may be able to just do Enterprise instead, 
and so, no problem. But if I was new to Rev, or if the upgrade routes 
didn't work out, I would look hard at the Expresses before deciding 
on Studio. That's one reason why I made sure to voice my opinion on 
the promo screen.

The other reason I've already stated more than once, but I might add 
to it--since what you said brings up a good point related to it--that 
beside commercial software, promo screens aren't really acceptable 
for shareware either--not anymore. And if you look at the variety of 
products that use them right now, I think you'll see that they give 
an impression that does not match, IMO, what one should be purchasing 
with Rev Express. But enough said about that!

Thanks,

Curry


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 18 00:58:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 18 00:58:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEGECNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <C4DF257D-B8E3-11D7-9111-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 09:09  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Now, I'm not trying to denigrate or belittle newbie RR programmers at
> all...it's just one would expect RR to want to splash their logo on the
> *best* of it's developer's work...not the beginners. I think the ABOUT 
> box
> (the way it is currently) is just fine.

A really good point. I hope they remove the mandatory splash logo too. 
If RR decides to keep it in the Express version, maybe they will brand 
it differently than the Studio and Enterprise. Emphasizing the EXPRESS 
part of it.

For some reason this also reminds me there at least one app that has a 
spoof of the "made with realbasic" logo. It says "made with real c++". 
Very much a programmer's in-joke, but definitely a slight for realbasic 
programmers.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Fri Jul 18 01:08:01 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:08:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEGECNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <a05111b00bb3cc41400b0@[68.86.46.40]> <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEGECNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <20030718145350.33D1.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

> Here's the only objection I have...and it's a big one.
> The Made With Screen...
> 
> And here's why.
> 
> This same screen killed professional development for Macromedia Director.
> Because so many hack-job Director games and projects were created...each
> with the "Made by Director" stamp, it severely tarnished its reputation. We
> had a number of clients who emphatically didn't want their Edutatainment
> products developed in Director, because of this exact stigma --even though
> we had done award winning CD-ROM's for Mattel and the Discovery Channel
> using Director. We eventually gave up using Director. So has everyone else.

Wow. I've been wondering why all the authoring tools seem to disappear.

> So, what can we expect *others* to think when they see the "Made with
> Revolution" logo on 'newbie' type projects? That all Rev projects are like
> this, and of the same caliber??? This is one of the reasons I originally
> chose RR, because it *didn't* have this stigma.

And the attribution screen is going to be required _specifically_ on
stacks made by hobbiests and guys like me buying the cheap edition to
test the waters. (If I can talk my wife into squeezing it into the
family budget.)

> Now, I'm not trying to denigrate or belittle newbie RR programmers at
> all...it's just one would expect RR to want to splash their logo on the
> *best* of it's developer's work...not the beginners. I think the ABOUT box
> (the way it is currently) is just fine.

I think I'm going to have to agree. 

If the folks at runrev are going to insist on attribution, they might
want to have the screen say something like, "Built with Run Revolution
Express, the cheap version for hobbiests, students, etc. Why don't _you_
see what you can slap together in 30 minutes, too?"

They'd have to word that better, though.

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From jtenny at willamette.edu  Fri Jul 18 01:09:00 2003
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:09:00 2003
Subject: me - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <200307171854.OAA12772@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <F86F0622-B8E4-11D7-BD32-000393911676@willamette.edu>

Am I one of those that RR is interested in? I'd played a bit with HC 
and liked it; never had a useful product in mind so went on to other, 
non-programming tasks (like getting a PhD and running a graduate 
teacher education program for 15 years).

Now I do have a product in mind and a ready, if small market. It has to 
be cross platform to be a success (success = breaking even, not 
producing uncommitted cash)- a hobby with income. I stumbled across RR 
and thought I'd found the right tool.

The new pricing doesn't bother me at all - I was ready to pay the full 
price for the SBE (which was less than the Studio after the intro offer 
is finished) -- if it did the job I needed.

What has stopped me dead in my tracks is that I can't seem to learn the 
program. As a newcomer, I can tell you that the online help system 
stinks - not enough examples, not enough detail in the 
vocabulary/syntax areas, and a vaporware manual. Try finding how to use 
the debug feature of the program. This may sound silly to you 
experienced folks, but I'm an intelligent and capable learner, really 
working to learn the product, and it's a quagmire.

The free version let me play forever to try to get a handle on how 
things works; because I know so little, I was not clever enough to make 
things work within the 10 line limit, so was considering the SBE -- 
JUST TO LEARN ON.

I been reading this list (the most active I've ever seen) religiously, 
and can honestly say I have not found one single thing that has been at 
the level I need. This is a wonderful, supportive club of talented 
folks all at the same, more advanced level, and I can see that it's of 
real use to all of you. It's not to me at all. It's ok to be a printed 
manual person, and I'm one, although the idea of a 3000 page manual 
sounds ridiculous ( and I'd be happy to grade all the database access 
for just one of the manual sections). Put the manual online as a pdf

So RR has now (for a short time) a reasonable entry price tag ($199 for 
what I need); it's cross platform (although the list points out 
numerous problems). But I think the learning curve is just too much  
and no manual and no tech support and no list that doesn't intimidate 
me. I'd love for RR to be a success, but if they're after people like 
me, they're doing something wrong.

Peace,

     John

Technology Integration Mentor
OTEN PT3 Grant




From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 01:13:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:13:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEGECNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <D72B83FE-B8E5-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 08:09  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> So, what can we expect *others* to think when they see the "Made with
> Revolution" logo on 'newbie' type projects? That all Rev projects are 
> like
> this, and of the same caliber??? This is one of the reasons I 
> originally
> chose RR, because it *didn't* have this stigma.

This is an excellent point.

Still, as a community we're all more or less aware of the work being 
done by others here on the list. How many Revolution projects have you 
seen that made you cringe? I can't think of any. Obviously as the user 
base expands (hopefully dramatically with Express) we'll see more 
beginner projects, and there are bound to be some awful ones, but if 
the average project is as good as I've seen so far, we have nothing to 
worry about.

There are plenty of boneheaded C programs running around, and no one 
blames C. Likewise with every other tool available. I know this doesn't 
help much but still, it seems unreasonable to judge a language based on 
the work newbies do with it. If that standard had been applied in 1996, 
the web would have been universally rejected by 1997 ;-)

One way that occurs to me to deal with any objections would be to 
simply respond, "Those applications were built with Revolution Express. 
I work with Revolution Studio. There's a world of difference."

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 01:14:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:14:00 2003
Subject: What Gives?
In-Reply-To: <3F1775D1.2010807@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <0BDC02F9-B8E6-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 09:21  PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 7/16/03 5:32 PM, Simtech Publications wrote:
>
>> I'm finding that I can't use any keyboard shortcuts at all.
>
> I just saw this over at MacFixit -- could this be the problem?

Jacque, if this turns out to be the answer, I think you've just sewn up 
a bottle of whiskey for next year's list helper ;-)

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From jtenny at willamette.edu  Fri Jul 18 01:16:01 2003
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:16:01 2003
Subject: license work around
In-Reply-To: <200307172247.SAA20327@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <FC6B64B6-B8E5-11D7-BD32-000393911676@willamette.edu>

So does this equal a "functioning" cross platform tool with a total 
price tag of $550 (after August). Why so convoluted just to get 
something that works as advertised.

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 03:47  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> I guess the way I'd handle this would be to buy a studio license for 
> one
> platform and also an express copy for your second platform. This will
> allow you to edit stacks on both operating systems. Once you know the
> stack is working okay in both places and you are ready to build your
> standalone, build them both with the studio edition, which will build
> for any platform and doesn't include the Rev "made with" screen.




From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 01:19:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:19:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00bb3d34e09788@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <C76FEFAD-B8E6-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 10:42  PM, curry wrote:

> Studio + Express doesn't sound so smooth, because they have different 
> upgrade policies and you would either have to not update Studio so 
> much or get a new Express often to keep up--so the price wouldn't be 
> that great in the long run. Also, it's nice to really do the final 
> compile on the platform too. So to me, if not for the splash screen, 
> the two Expresses would look better than Studio.

The difference in upgrade frequencies should work to your favor in 
purchasing Studio+Express, although I can see the hassle in keeping 
track. I'll bet that Heather will be happy to remind you when you need 
to give her more money, though ;-)

re: final compiles: it shouldn't matter, at least as far as the result. 
It should be byte-for-byte the same regardless of which platform you 
build on.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 01:23:02 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:23:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <C4DF257D-B8E3-11D7-9111-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <473DE18D-B8E7-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 10:50  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> For some reason this also reminds me there at least one app that has a 
> spoof of the "made with realbasic" logo. It says "made with real c++". 
> Very much a programmer's in-joke, but definitely a slight for 
> realbasic programmers.

Then someone else released an app that made fun of _those_ guys because 
it said, "made with real assembler." ;-)

Seriously, anyone who wants to taunt me because he programmed his app 
in C is welcome to. I'll take the extra free time. (or code, really -- 
I don't have any extra time, just more done at the end of the day)

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 01:25:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:25:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00bb3d34e09788@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <BB3CDE9E.30DCF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

curry wrote:

>>> (However, I do still strongly oppose the "Made with" screen idea. Not
>>> because I don't want to promote Rev, but the place for that is in the
>>> About box and ReadMe. The problem with the promo screen is that it
>>> makes your finished software, if you do shareware or commercial
>>> software, look less professional. And that doesn't help anyone.)
>> 
>> Commercial developers should buy Studio at least.
> 
> Well, perhaps this has the potential to get into a "Is so!"-"Is not!"
> type conversation :-) but I would hesitate to make such a generality.
> If a commercial developer doesn't like Studio because of its
> behavior, then it's either Enterprise, Studio + Express, or two
> Expresses.

Agreed, but we're not talking about the perceptions of developers.  We're
talking about end-users.

Are you suggesting the splash screen include the something like, "This
unprofessional-looking splash screen is not present in applications made
with the Studio or Enterprise versions of Revlution"? ;)

I'm afraid that without it there's no way for an end-user to know.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 01:28:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:28:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEGECNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <F00E2639-B8E7-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 08:09  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> So, what can we expect *others* to think when they see the "Made with
> Revolution" logo on 'newbie' type projects? That all Rev projects are 
> like
> this, and of the same caliber??? This is one of the reasons I 
> originally
> chose RR, because it *didn't* have this stigma.

Just thought -- maybe this can be looked at from the other direction: 
that the time has come to stand up and be counted. The problem isn't 
that poor apps are made and show the logo. The problem is that good 
apps don't often give themselves away, and generally won't have to show 
the logo. If everyone who released a Revolution app made it perfectly 
clear, the newbies' apps wouldn't be an issue.

Everyone say it with me:

      Hi, my name is Geoff Canyon, and I use Revolution.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 01:29:46 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:29:46 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <C685FB98-B8DD-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CDFA8.30DD0%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> You have a point, but: show of hands -- who here has built an app for
> another platform without ever testing on that platform and had it just
> work? And who has had the exact opposite experience; serious
> platform-specific issues that required working on that platform to fix?

While it's possible to test on one machine and code on another, such a
workflow is inherently less productive.  One of the benefits of working
above lower-level languages is the ability to edit at runtime.  To encourage
anything less removes one of the primary advantages of Revolution.
 
> You can build for OS X on other platforms, just not for OS <=9.
> Obviously this issue is getting smaller as time passes.

Today 60% of Mac users still use OS 9 or earlier.
And if I can build OS X apps on other platforms, why does Scott tell me I
need to make Mach-O builds from OS X and not OS 9?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 01:36:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:36:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <C4DF257D-B8E3-11D7-9111-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CE149.30DD1%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:
 
> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 09:09  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
>> Now, I'm not trying to denigrate or belittle newbie RR programmers at
>> all...it's just one would expect RR to want to splash their logo on the
>> *best* of it's developer's work...not the beginners. I think the ABOUT
>> box
>> (the way it is currently) is just fine.
> 
> A really good point. I hope they remove the mandatory splash logo too.
> If RR decides to keep it in the Express version, maybe they will brand
> it differently than the Studio and Enterprise. Emphasizing the EXPRESS
> part of it.

A clearer differentiation could be possible with a product that deploys to a
player only.  It may seem odd to the outside observer that an
application-building system that claims to offer total control over the user
experience would hamper the exit of an application.  There are different
(lower) expectations for a player app....

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From dan at shafermedia.com  Fri Jul 18 01:38:02 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:38:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <5A7A2FA6-B8E9-11D7-9117-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

I'm just raising my hand here in support of Chipp's note about the 
splash screen. My company had a similar experience; we'd actually done 
some of the early demos for Director under contract to Macromedia and 
were building a decent business as Director developers. But our clients 
indicated they didn't want *their* customers (or competitors) to know 
what tool(s) they used and they insisted that we either circumvent the 
Director splash screen or switch tools.

We switched tools.

I am absolutely all in favor of RR getting as much exposure and 
publicity for the tool as possible because we all ultimately benefit 
from that. But this splash screen is a proven bad idea which I really 
hope RR reconsiders.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of forthcoming 3-book set,
"Revolution: Programming at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for More Info



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Fri Jul 18 01:39:47 2003
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:39:47 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307180509.BAA32093@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <84108E0A-B8E9-11D7-AA57-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 15:09 Australia/Sydney, Geoff Canyon 
<gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com> wrote:
>
> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 10:03  AM, Jim Hurley wrote:
>
>> I would have thought however that Run Rev might like to have the 
>> *option* of including this message. I expect someday to release some 
>> very bad software.
>
> There _is_ an option: Studio or Enterprise ;-)

Geoff, you are doing a fine job as front man while people are away at 
the show :-) but your response to Jim's delightful witticism misses the 
point made more extensively by Chipp and several others.

Like any tool, Rev will have a population of bad programmers. They will 
not be buying Enterprise and are unlikely to buy Studio. Whatever the 
excellence of many Express buyers testing the RR waters, it remains a 
fact that RR's proud splash will also sit on many of the worst programs 
made with Rev; programs badly written and unsupported; the author is 
not earning their living from them. This is just plain bad publicity 
and you do not need it.

I can afford not to care about the splash because I will need S and 
might get Ent, but not Ex. My view is therefore somewhat dispassionate 
and I support those saying RR is making a bad call here.

regards
David

PS: Before any free or prospective Ex buyers beat me up about those 
comments, I am just saying that is where the population of worse 
_programs_ is likely to arrive, not that better _programmers_ will 
avoid Ex. If that is too fine a distinction for you I will not respond 
to your flames. - dv

>
> regards,
>
> Geoff Canyon
> gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 01:42:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:42:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <D72B83FE-B8E5-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CE2BD.30DDB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> Still, as a community we're all more or less aware of the work being
> done by others here on the list. How many Revolution projects have you
> seen that made you cringe?

Ah, but the night is young.  As more hearty drinks get passed around it's
only a matter of time befor the lampshade wearers start dancing.  ;)

> There are plenty of boneheaded C programs running around, and no one
> blames C. 

And no C environment hampers the exit of an application.

> I know this doesn't help much but still, it seems unreasonable to
> judge a language based on the work newbies do with it.

On what planet do end-users have the time or interest to research the
development systems their apps were made with sufficienty to distinguish
between different categories of licenses that evidently confuse even
long-time users?
 
> One way that occurs to me to deal with any objections would be to
> simply respond, "Those applications were built with Revolution

For those who ask.  But as you know, in any community the vocal are a small
minority.  The rest merely observe, judge, and move on....

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Fri Jul 18 01:46:02 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:46:02 2003
Subject: me - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <1030718160559.3f178e47.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.81233@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <304EC89F-B8EA-11D7-8162-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi John,

I know what you mean, because even those of us experienced with other 
xTalk tools ran into problems starting. Basically it gets worse when 
you don't even know the question let alone the answer :-)
Anyway, we are here to help and we all hate seeing someone sink into 
despair, so here are a few starting points you could consider:

Metacard has a good tutorial: mtp.mc at http://www.metacard.com/pi6.html
Change the file extension to .rev and it will work fine. It doesn't 
deal with the graphical interface design at all, but gets you started 
with some simple scripts.

After that, since there aren't any Rev books out there yet, I recommend 
a HyperCard book. Rev has lots that HC doesn't, but it incorporates 
pretty much all that HC does and the docs note when this doesn't apply. 
Also any demo stacks can be loaded straight into Revolution although 
they can have some problems if they use menus. Books to consider are:
HyperTalk Programming by Dan Shafer
HyperTalk 2.2: The Book by Winkler, Kamins & DeVoto
The Complete HyperCard Handbook by Danny Goodman

Dan is re-writing his book to apply to Revolution: if you go to 
http://www.revjournal.com/ you can find some info about that as well as 
a couple of excerpts. Jeanne DeVoto is the author the Rev docs. I'm not 
sure that all these are still in print, but they can usually be found.

Apart from that, I assume you have done the tutorials that come with 
Revolution and if you have Rev 2.0, you will see the new Cookbook 
section which has quite a lot of example scripts. There are also 
numerous stacks available at the User Contributions section of the 
RunRev website and other places - all of which can be taken apart, 
examined, changed, tested etc so you can work out what is going on.

Finally, if you want the docs in a separate electronic format, go to 
http://www.inspiredlogic.com/downloads.html where Geoff Canyon has a 
stack that will export the docs into html, rtf or text.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

P.S. the manual isn't vaporware - the might stack of books is making my 
desk bend :-)


On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 04:05  pm, John Tenny wrote:

> Am I one of those that RR is interested in? I'd played a bit with HC 
> and liked it; never had a useful product in mind so went on to other, 
> non-programming tasks (like getting a PhD and running a graduate 
> teacher education program for 15 years).
>
> Now I do have a product in mind and a ready, if small market. It has 
> to be cross platform to be a success (success = breaking even, not 
> producing uncommitted cash)- a hobby with income. I stumbled across RR 
> and thought I'd found the right tool.
>
> The new pricing doesn't bother me at all - I was ready to pay the full 
> price for the SBE (which was less than the Studio after the intro 
> offer is finished) -- if it did the job I needed.
>
> What has stopped me dead in my tracks is that I can't seem to learn 
> the program. As a newcomer, I can tell you that the online help system 
> stinks - not enough examples, not enough detail in the 
> vocabulary/syntax areas, and a vaporware manual. Try finding how to 
> use the debug feature of the program. This may sound silly to you 
> experienced folks, but I'm an intelligent and capable learner, really 
> working to learn the product, and it's a quagmire.
>
> The free version let me play forever to try to get a handle on how 
> things works; because I know so little, I was not clever enough to 
> make things work within the 10 line limit, so was considering the SBE 
> -- JUST TO LEARN ON.
>
> I been reading this list (the most active I've ever seen) religiously, 
> and can honestly say I have not found one single thing that has been 
> at the level I need. This is a wonderful, supportive club of talented 
> folks all at the same, more advanced level, and I can see that it's of 
> real use to all of you. It's not to me at all. It's ok to be a printed 
> manual person, and I'm one, although the idea of a 3000 page manual 
> sounds ridiculous ( and I'd be happy to grade all the database access 
> for just one of the manual sections). Put the manual online as a pdf
>
> So RR has now (for a short time) a reasonable entry price tag ($199 
> for what I need); it's cross platform (although the list points out 
> numerous problems). But I think the learning curve is just too much  
> and no manual and no tech support and no list that doesn't intimidate 
> me. I'd love for RR to be a success, but if they're after people like 
> me, they're doing something wrong.
>
> Peace,
>
>     John
>
> Technology Integration Mentor
> OTEN PT3 Grant




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 01:48:25 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:48:25 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <473DE18D-B8E7-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CE425.30DDB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 10:50  PM, Alex Rice wrote:
> 
>> For some reason this also reminds me there at least one app that has a
>> spoof of the "made with realbasic" logo. It says "made with real c++".
>> Very much a programmer's in-joke, but definitely a slight for
>> realbasic programmers.
> 
> Then someone else released an app that made fun of _those_ guys because
> it said, "made with real assembler." ;-)
> 
> Seriously, anyone who wants to taunt me because he programmed his app
> in C is welcome to. I'll take the extra free time. (or code, really --
> I don't have any extra time, just more done at the end of the day)

The distinction should not be poo-poo'd:  C IDEs do require a "portuions
?..." string in the About box (for the minority that read their license
agreements).

But some IDEs require a logo as well, a line I'd rather not cross.  My
clients never had to cross it before, and we'd make an unholy noise if we
ever had to.  Fortunately the requirement as it stands for Studio and
Enterprise are on par with C and other professional IDEs.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From david at kwinter.ca  Fri Jul 18 01:55:01 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 01:55:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <F00E2639-B8E7-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CF43B.1ADE%david@kwinter.ca>

On 7/18/03 12:20 AM, "Geoff Canyon" <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com> wrote:

> Everyone say it with me:
> 
>     Hi, my name is Geoff Canyon, and I use Revolution.
> 


Playing devil's advocate, I'd like to point out that some hard core
developers may not want to promote Revolution. Simply put, Revolution is a
very serious competitive advantage. Such programmers may only want Rev to
barely survive.

Optimistically, I can't imagine the future of AI programming without a 4GL
compiler. In fact AI is defined as 5GL. It's amazing that Rev has such
powerful information management while maintaining a nearly complete set of
hooks into industry-standard databases, protocols, media, etc.

RunRev has phenomenal potential to be the standard 4GL engine if it plays
its cards right.

Marketing is mostly up to RunRev itself, and largely doesn't exist. RR:
Start with a real book and play up to your company's name. Tout the 90% less
code 4GL vs 3GL. You've got a piece of 2025 right now, we're all believers.


David Kwinter



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 18 02:00:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 18 02:00:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <473DE18D-B8E7-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <6FA25D15-B8EC-11D7-8465-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 12:15  AM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
> Then someone else released an app that made fun of _those_ guys 
> because it said, "made with real assembler." ;-)

"Made with real electrons"

> Seriously, anyone who wants to taunt me because he programmed his app 
> in C is welcome to. I'll take the extra free time. (or code, really -- 
> I don't have any extra time, just more done at the end of the day)

Same here!

> Everyone say it with me:
>
>      Hi, my name is Geoff Canyon, and I use Revolution.

Revolution is pretty amazing stuff. There are lots of folks unaware 
that there exists a tool that can deliver across platforms, look good, 
run fast, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. People need to know about 
it!

Geoff do you know if the current 50% off prices will continue including 
the 2.1 release?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 02:02:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 02:02:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <F00E2639-B8E7-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB3CE6EB.30DDD%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> Just thought -- maybe this can be looked at from the other direction:
> that the time has come to stand up and be counted. The problem isn't
> that poor apps are made and show the logo. The problem is that good
> apps don't often give themselves away, and generally won't have to show
> the logo. If everyone who released a Revolution app made it perfectly
> clear, the newbies' apps wouldn't be an issue.

It's not about developers.  It's about end-users.

End-users don't generally care what their apps were made with so long as
they provide a great software experience.

When a developer wants to know what tool a ware was written in, she'll go to
the About box to look at the copyright string.

Yes, it is time to stand up and be counted.  But before we can be counted we
must first stand up, and stand proudly.  Hampering an app's exit is not a
proud moment.

Enabling the highest degree of excellence in software design will do far
more for Revolution than the cleverist of branding strategies.

Forget Runtime Revolution Ltd., forget Fourth World/Sons o'
Thunder/Altuit/et al.   We don't matter; ultimately, only the end-user
matters.

Place the end-user experience above all else and the rest will sort itself
out naturally.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 02:20:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 02:20:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CF43B.1ADE%david@kwinter.ca>
Message-ID: <BB3CEBC8.30DEB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

So well said it's worth reposting:

David Kwinter wrote:
> RunRev has phenomenal potential to be the standard 4GL engine if it plays
> its cards right.
> 
> Marketing is mostly up to RunRev itself, and largely doesn't exist. RR:
> Start with a real book and play up to your company's name. Tout the 90% less
> code 4GL vs 3GL. You've got a piece of 2025 right now, we're all believers.

The future is 4GLs.  Rev is among the best 4GLs the world has seen.

If only 5% of the people currently throwing money away using lower-level
systems like Java instead used Rev where appropriate, RunRev Ltd. would be
rich and humanity would save more than a million person-hours in the first
year alone.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Fri Jul 18 02:34:00 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri Jul 18 02:34:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <5A7A2FA6-B8E9-11D7-9117-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEEADFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> I am absolutely all in favor of RR getting as much exposure and
> publicity for the tool as possible because we all ultimately benefit
> from that. But this splash screen is a proven bad idea which I really
> hope RR reconsiders.

Let's not get too carried away. I remember that the idea of a cheeper
version that only builds for one platform and has a splash like in Director
was called for way back before the initial let's get the last HC users
special offer.

I'm not saying it's a good idea but it's one that came from this list. Ever
since Rev came out there have been people demanding a $100-150 price tag and
not only does int make good business sense that RR have replaced the Free
version with the Express but it shows they listen to thier users.

The worst thing I can see about the splash is the target audience. It's not
annoying the developer as much as the user. The user is the one that doesn't
own Rev and therfore could be another sale. You've just annoyed a potential
customer. Will you get the sale? No.

I think that if Express is a hobby version then it should have a hobby
distribution system. My vote would be something akin to a standalone version
of RevNet with a cache for offline browsing. AKA Java WebStart.

That way the limitation is actually showing off the cross-platform web aware
capabilities of Rev.

Regards

Monte



From bvlahos at mac.com  Fri Jul 18 02:52:01 2003
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Fri Jul 18 02:52:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEGECNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <B6AED06D-B8F3-11D7-8313-0003936A2C42@mac.com>

This is a great argument and has changed my mind on the subject too.

My $.02

Bill

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 08:09  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Now, I'm not trying to denigrate or belittle newbie RR programmers at
> all...it's just one would expect RR to want to splash their logo on the
> *best* of it's developer's work...not the beginners. I think the ABOUT 
> box
> (the way it is currently) is just fine.



From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Fri Jul 18 03:33:00 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Fri Jul 18 03:33:00 2003
Subject: me - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <304EC89F-B8EA-11D7-8162-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <1030718160559.3f178e47.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.81233@192.168.0.100> <304EC89F-B8EA-11D7-8162-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030718172457.33D9.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

Thanks for the links and pointers, Sarah. I had also gotten sidetracked
into playing with the interface builder.

Sarah suggested

> I know what you mean, because even those of us experienced with other 
> xTalk tools ran into problems starting. Basically it gets worse when 
> you don't even know the question let alone the answer :-)
> Anyway, we are here to help and we all hate seeing someone sink into 
> despair, so here are a few starting points you could consider:
> 
> Metacard has a good tutorial: mtp.mc at http://www.metacard.com/pi6.html
> Change the file extension to .rev and it will work fine. It doesn't 
> deal with the graphical interface design at all, but gets you started 
> with some simple scripts.
> 
> After that, since there aren't any Rev books out there yet, I recommend 
> a HyperCard book. Rev has lots that HC doesn't, but it incorporates 
> pretty much all that HC does and the docs note when this doesn't apply. 
> Also any demo stacks can be loaded straight into Revolution although 
> they can have some problems if they use menus. Books to consider are:
> HyperTalk Programming by Dan Shafer
> HyperTalk 2.2: The Book by Winkler, Kamins & DeVoto
> The Complete HyperCard Handbook by Danny Goodman
> 
> Dan is re-writing his book to apply to Revolution: if you go to 
> http://www.revjournal.com/ you can find some info about that as well as 
> a couple of excerpts. Jeanne DeVoto is the author the Rev docs. I'm not 
> sure that all these are still in print, but they can usually be found.
> 
> Apart from that, I assume you have done the tutorials that come with 
> Revolution and if you have Rev 2.0, you will see the new Cookbook 
> section which has quite a lot of example scripts. There are also 
> numerous stacks available at the User Contributions section of the 
> RunRev website and other places - all of which can be taken apart, 
> examined, changed, tested etc so you can work out what is going on.
> 
> Finally, if you want the docs in a separate electronic format, go to 
> http://www.inspiredlogic.com/downloads.html where Geoff Canyon has a 
> stack that will export the docs into html, rtf or text.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/
> 
> P.S. the manual isn't vaporware - the might stack of books is making my 
> desk bend :-)

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 03:37:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 03:37:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICEGECNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <D1D73AC8-B8F9-11D7-A983-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 05:09 Europe/Vienna, Chipp Walters wrote:

> So, what can we expect *others* to think when they see the "Made with
> Revolution" logo on 'newbie' type projects? That all Rev projects are 
> like
> this, and of the same caliber??? This is one of the reasons I 
> originally
> chose RR, because it *didn't* have this stigma.
>
> Now, I'm not trying to denigrate or belittle newbie RR programmers at
> all...it's just one would expect RR to want to splash their logo on the
> *best* of it's developer's work...not the beginners. I think the ABOUT 
> box
> (the way it is currently) is just fine.

Agree 100%... It is (WAS?) one of the strongest rev arguments. If RR 
change her mind in this case I think its shooting in your own feet, as 
we say here in Austria...

One thought more...
What great product we could have now, if time and money of "license 
changes" - I think its the 6. or 7. licence/pricing change from the 
beginning (think about all the time what the members here also have 
wasted) - would have been invested in bugfixing and improvement of the 
UI...
A modular MC/rev developer tool with any flavor of UI (newbie to pro 
developer, from reduced to full featured) and features, where every 
developer could pick up what he needs. That would be the end of the 
pricing/license discussion and the beginning of real rev volume sales 
(against Director, RB, Visual Basic, etc...)

Let me give you an example: Geoffs revNavigator and the actual 
Appbrowser
The revNavigator is much better than the Appbrowser which is now at 
last (after 2 years) better than the good old Aplov. But far away what 
I it could be. The revNavigator not a real replacement, more an 
addition: "Together we are strong..."
Why not integrate the revNavigator concept in the Appbrowser with some 
other stacks, to a kind of pure developer UI..?
(pure does not mean cheap...)

So everybody could build his UI with different stacks, and his price 
(Of course there must be a basic UI like (similar) it was (is) in MC. 
Some prebuilded combinations (stacks) for rev newbies, HArdcore coder, 
MM developers HC switcher, RB switcher Director and so one could be 
done and offered by RR itself...
A killer app...!

Imho the problem is, there are a lot of great scripters at RR but only 
a few(?) "ergonomics" and UI freaks...

I know the wont pay me for my ideas, on the contrary so I would like to 
know, whats the upgrade price for the pro license...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 03:39:00 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 03:39:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CBF82.30DB0%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <0D62A816-B8FA-11D7-A983-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 06:02 Europe/Vienna, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I had no opinion about the splash screen until I read his post.  Now I 
> must
> add my voice to those who think it's not in the best interests of the
> product or the company.
>
> Vive la R?volution!

Assuming in this case you mean Evolution...;)

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From curry at pair.com  Fri Jul 18 03:44:00 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Fri Jul 18 03:44:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307180548.BAA04215@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307180548.BAA04215@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb3d5fa48bc7@[68.86.46.40]>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

>  >> Commercial developers should buy Studio at least.
>...
>  > If a commercial developer doesn't like Studio because of its
>  > behavior, then it's either Enterprise, Studio + Express, or two
>  > Expresses.
>
>Agreed, but we're not talking about the perceptions of developers.  We're
>talking about end-users.
>
>Are you suggesting the splash screen include the something like, "This
>unprofessional-looking splash screen is not present in applications made
>with the Studio or Enterprise versions of Revlution"? ;)
>
>I'm afraid that without it there's no way for an end-user to know.

Something got tangled up somewhere--that's not what I was talking 
about. Or rather, it's two different things.

I was talking about Studio's behavior (not editing on target 
platform) as a reason why I (as an example of the commercial 
developers he was talking about) would rather choose two Expresses 
than a Studio, but if using Express, that's where the end-user 
perception comes in about the splash screen. See what I meant? :-)

I don't want a splash screen to include *anything* because I don't 
want a splash screen! (Whether I'm using it or someone else.)

Curry


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 03:52:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 03:52:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <D72B83FE-B8E5-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <EC1DBB6E-B8FB-11D7-A983-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

Hi Geoff,
On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 08:05 Europe/Vienna, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> One way that occurs to me to deal with any objections would be to 
> simply respond, "Those applications were built with Revolution 
> Express. I work with Revolution Studio. There's a world of > difference."
You are expecting to much from the average costumer (client). He does 
not see the difference of Express odr Studio. He does, if he does, 
realize made+revolution - Not more...

I ofter fin myself not looking closer to a utility which offer a system 
near features if I see made on RB, maybe thats not fair, but it is ... 
Therefore thats a big danger for the whole product. You get a bad 
reputation very fast, but its difficult and expensive to loose it 
again...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 03:54:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 03:54:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CDE9E.30DCF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <44093618-B8FC-11D7-A983-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 08:15 Europe/Vienna, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Agreed, but we're not talking about the perceptions of developers.  
> We're
> talking about end-users.
>
> Are you suggesting the splash screen include the something like, "This
> unprofessional-looking splash screen is not present in applications 
> made
> with the Studio or Enterprise versions of Revlution"? ;)

Ahhh Hyperstudio..?

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 03:58:02 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 03:58:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <D72B83FE-B8E5-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <007458C4-B8FD-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

There seem to be three arguments against the Express closing screen:

1. Potential clients/developers won't want the closing screen on their 
apps.
    Answer: get Studio or Enterprise.

2. End Users will be frustrated by the closing screen.
    Answer: it is (my understanding) brief and somewhat entertaining.

3. Potential clients/developers will be turned off by the perceived 
lack of quality in Revolution-developed apps because awareness that a 
given app was created with Revolution will correlate with the 
newest/least serious developers.
    Answer: this is the hardest to answer. The decline of Director is 
being blamed on the "Made with Director" campaign. Could that campaign 
also be credited with the previous success of Director? The product had 
a very good run. Maybe the right business plan is to gain awareness 
with such a campaign only until you see traction in the marketplace, 
and then pull the campaign and let your product speak with its own (now 
much louder) voice?

What Revolution needs now is awareness. Anything that promotes that is 
good. Anything that hinders that is bad.

Disclaimer: the above is speculation.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 04:01:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:01:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <3F177021.6050009@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6E1FA016-B8FD-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 08:57  PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Hm. I hadn't thought of that. Poorly-designed beginner stacks are what 
> gave HyperCard a bad name too, and eventually killed it. You have a 
> good point.

All products should live the life and die the death of HyperCard...

To those who suggest a player would make the closing screen a better 
option, consider that there was no splash screen/closing screen on the 
HyperCard stacks that gave HyperCard a bad reputation. The thing 
identifying them was the fact that they ran in HyperCard.

Maybe the player app should be named "This certainly has nothing to do 
with Revolution." ;-)

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From P.Jimmieson at csc.liv.ac.uk  Fri Jul 18 04:03:02 2003
From: P.Jimmieson at csc.liv.ac.uk (Phil Jimmieson)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:03:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <C685FB98-B8DD-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <C685FB98-B8DD-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f01bb3d63819ee7@[138.253.187.249]>

>On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 05:31  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:
>
>>I don't think that they can honestly say that the studio product 
>>allows you to create applications for all supported platforms, 
>>since it's impossible to TEST the applications without using 
>>another one of the products.
>
>You have a point, but: show of hands -- who here has built an app 
>for another platform without ever testing on that platform and had 
>it just work?

I've had minor cosmetic issues show up (dodgy fonts, windows drawn 
with a default background colour other than I expected) but I was 
able to fix these on the Mac - no windows IDE required.

>And who has had the exact opposite experience; serious 
>platform-specific issues that required working on that platform to 
>fix?

I found that there was a problem with pathnames to quicktime files 
that only appeared under windows (it was in version 1.1.1 and I can't 
remember the details now). But suffice it to say that if I hadn't 
been able to debug the software under windows, it would have been 
*very* much harder to figure out what the problem was and code around 
it.

>You can build for OS X on other platforms, just not for OS <=9. 
>Obviously this issue is getting smaller as time passes.

But there are still a lot of people using OS9. Would you really want 
to unnecessarily cut them off from your potential audience? If you 
have to pay $800 more to be able to debug the software on OS9 when 
you're working on OSX then I imagine a lot of people just won't 
bother, so you won't get an OS9 version of the software. Personally 
I'd hate the loss of the ability to debug on any platform.

-- 
Phil Jimmieson  phil at csc.liv.ac.uk  (UK) 0151 794 3689  (Mobile) 07976 983164
Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Chadwick Building, Peach Street
Liverpool L69 7ZF              http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
   I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment.


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 04:11:02 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:11:02 2003
Subject: license work around
In-Reply-To: <FC6B64B6-B8E5-11D7-BD32-000393911676@willamette.edu>
Message-ID: <C3953B5C-B8FE-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:06  PM, John Tenny wrote:

> So does this equal a "functioning" cross platform tool with a total 
> price tag of $550 (after August). Why so convoluted just to get 
> something that works as advertised.

Depends on your definition of "functioning cross platform tool." I've 
built many apps on a Mac that compiled for a PC and ran flawlessly 
there. By that standard, Studio alone is sufficient at $199 now, $399 
normally.

For anything mission critical you want to be able to test/debug on the 
target platforms. If that's just Windows, then throw in a copy of 
Express for $75 now, $149 normally, for a total of $548.

If you want to test/debug on more platforms, you can add them in as 
well.

If you want simplicity, Enterprise is all-you-can-eat: build/debug on 
any platform or all of them, for $599 now, $1199 normally.

So if you want simple, it's available. So is a custom configuration, so 
if you need to be able to develop on Linux but target Sparc as well, 
Revolution has you covered.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From esa.kivela at welho.com  Fri Jul 18 04:12:02 2003
From: esa.kivela at welho.com (Esa =?iso-8859-1?Q?kivel=E4?=)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:12:02 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1621 - 14 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200307180548.BAA04215@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030718120145.00b4f650@mail-hub.welho.com>

At 01:48 18.7.2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Send use-revolution mailing list submissions to
>         use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
>         use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of use-revolution digest..."
>
>
>you can find the archives for this list at:
>
><http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/>
>
>and search them using this link:
>
><http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com>
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. me - the potential buyer (John Tenny)
>    2. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Geoff Canyon)
>    3. Re: What Gives? (Geoff Canyon)
>    4. license work around (John Tenny)
>    5. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Geoff Canyon)
>    6. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Geoff Canyon)
>    7. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Richard Gaskin)
>    8. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Geoff Canyon)
>    9. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Richard Gaskin)
>   10. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Richard Gaskin)
>   11. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Dan Shafer)
>   12. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (David Vaughan)
>   13. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Richard Gaskin)
>   14. Re: me - the potential buyer (Sarah)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:59:19 -0700
>Subject: me - the potential buyer
>From: John Tenny <jtenny at willamette.edu>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>Am I one of those that RR is interested in? I'd played a bit with HC
>and liked it; never had a useful product in mind so went on to other,
>non-programming tasks (like getting a PhD and running a graduate
>teacher education program for 15 years).
>
>Now I do have a product in mind and a ready, if small market. It has to
>be cross platform to be a success (success = breaking even, not
>producing uncommitted cash)- a hobby with income. I stumbled across RR
>and thought I'd found the right tool.
>
>The new pricing doesn't bother me at all - I was ready to pay the full
>price for the SBE (which was less than the Studio after the intro offer
>is finished) -- if it did the job I needed.
>
>What has stopped me dead in my tracks is that I can't seem to learn the
>program. As a newcomer, I can tell you that the online help system
>stinks - not enough examples, not enough detail in the
>vocabulary/syntax areas, and a vaporware manual. >

That's why I liked HCs Home tacka nd its HC reference :-) Something smiliar 
to RR (with good pratical examples)? I have difficulties also start with RR 
and some   things I still have to figure out.

Esashi


Even the most powerful human being
Has a limited sphere of strength.
Draw him outside of that sphere
And into your own, and his strength will dissipate.
          - Morihei Ueshiba



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 04:15:02 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:15:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CDFA8.30DD0%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <6327C29A-B8FF-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:20  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> While it's possible to test on one machine and code on another, such a
> workflow is inherently less productive.

Only if you actually end up needing to debug something specific to the 
non-development platform. Revolution isn't a perfect cross-platform 
solution, but it is very good. If the need for platform-specific 
debugging is lessened, the need for cross-platform development is 
similarly lessened.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 04:18:02 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:18:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CDFA8.30DD0%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C2CF5628-B8FF-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:20  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> You can build for OS X on other platforms, just not for OS <=9.
>> Obviously this issue is getting smaller as time passes.
>
> Today 60% of Mac users still use OS 9 or earlier.
> And if I can build OS X apps on other platforms, why does Scott tell 
> me I
> need to make Mach-O builds from OS X and not OS 9?

I thought you could build for OS X on OS 9, but maybe not -- it's been 
awhile since I opened Rev on a Classic machine, and far be it from me 
to contradict the Word of Raney. ;-)

I wasn't saying that there aren't still a lot of OS 9 users, just that 
their numbers are no longer increasing.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Fri Jul 18 04:19:02 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:19:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <20030718101157.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

Hello Ken

>> In fact, as someone who has no use for these drivers, but who wishes to target
>> multiple platforms, I fall squarely into the camp of the 'losers'.
----------
>How so? The new pricing and names indicate that the "Studio" version
>replaces the SBE and includes "All supported platforms" .

Because it appears that the Studio version only runs on one platform for development, and only includes a single version upgrade (although given the amount of time it took for Rev 2.0 to come out, so I do not expect there to be more than one upgrade per year). I think I didn't express myself very clearly (I was already embarrassed by the length of my email!)

Regards
Bernard  



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 04:20:03 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:20:03 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <5A7A2FA6-B8E9-11D7-9117-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <11DF15A0-B900-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:30  PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I'm just raising my hand here in support of Chipp's note about the 
> splash screen. My company had a similar experience; we'd actually done 
> some of the early demos for Director under contract to Macromedia and 
> were building a decent business as Director developers. But our 
> clients indicated they didn't want *their* customers (or competitors) 
> to know what tool(s) they used and they insisted that we either 
> circumvent the Director splash screen or switch tools.
>
> We switched tools.
>
> I am absolutely all in favor of RR getting as much exposure and 
> publicity for the tool as possible because we all ultimately benefit 
> from that. But this splash screen is a proven bad idea which I really 
> hope RR reconsiders.

You wouldn't have to circumvent anything -- just purchase Studio and 
poof, no closing screen.

I disagree that a closing screen is a "proven bad idea." It seemed to 
serve Macromedia pretty well for over half a decade.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 04:22:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:22:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CE149.30DD1%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <490B276E-B900-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:27  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> A clearer differentiation could be possible with a product that 
> deploys to a
> player only.  It may seem odd to the outside observer that an
> application-building system that claims to offer total control over 
> the user
> experience would hamper the exit of an application.  There are 
> different
> (lower) expectations for a player app....

Wouldn't people then get the impression that a player app was all 
Revolution was capable of?

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 04:27:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:27:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <6E1FA016-B8FD-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB3D09A5.30DFE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> To those who suggest a player would make the closing screen a better
> option, consider that there was no splash screen/closing screen on the
> HyperCard stacks that gave HyperCard a bad reputation. The thing
> identifying them was the fact that they ran in HyperCard.

Precisely.  No arbitrary delay on exit.

> Maybe the player app should be named "This certainly has nothing to do
> with Revolution." ;-)

Gets my vote. :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 04:27:40 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:27:40 2003
Subject: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR
In-Reply-To: <B1C0C886-B8BE-11D7-9117-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <DD65EEAC-B900-11D7-A983-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 03:25 Europe/Vienna, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>
> RTFText supports a tiny subset of the RTF file format. The docs list 
> the formatting controls in RTF that are supported by RR. Out of 
> something like 1300 control words in the RTF spec, RR supports 
> approximately 30. The support is so thin that even a fairly simple 
> book chapter -- which includes things like bulleted lists, code 
> samples, and four-level headings, renders quite poorly and unusably.

I have the same rtf problem since the beginning. Write and format in 
one tool and transfer all that without loosing the formating to other 
tools. Thats very important for writing or working with a lot of text, 
translations and so on. I have struggled a lot for the rtf feature in 
rev...
Now we have it at least!!!
I know its not perfect, but again we have it...;)
The biggest problem is -as always- M$. But there is ( I dont know) no 
other way to deal with formated text between OSes.
What I do is: I write in Mellel OSX only). It does good rtf import 
also, but I have not imported Word rtf files until now. I write in it
I select the text copy it to the clipboard
set the rev textfield to rtf and paste it to the rev textfield.
That works fine. Yes you have to do a bit of fine tuning with 
tabulators, but not the whole slave formatting job again and again. 
Nearly 95% of the formatting is correct here... (Dont know what happens 
if the text is very big, I paste only small parts to the rev textfields 
up to 3 pages)
Maybe there is a way for XML I dont know how this works...
The future could be pdf import..?

Hope that helps

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 04:29:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:29:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <5A7A2FA6-B8E9-11D7-9117-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <EDC4321E-B900-11D7-A983-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

Hi Dan,

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 08:30 Europe/Vienna, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I'm just raising my hand here in support of Chipp's note about the 
> splash screen. My company had a similar experience; we'd actually done 
> some of the early demos for Director under contract to Macromedia and 
> were building a decent business as Director developers. But our 
> clients indicated they didn't want *their* customers (or competitors) 
> to know what tool(s) they used and they insisted that we either 
> circumvent the Director splash screen or switch tools.
>
> We switched tools.
>
> I am absolutely all in favor of RR getting as much exposure and 
> publicity for the tool as possible because we all ultimately benefit 
> from that. But this splash screen is a proven bad idea which I really 
> hope RR reconsiders.

Thanks for that point and also for the book you are working on. I have 
seen it on revjournal and was very, very IMPRESSED!
Thats "the book" what we -NON-Hardcore scripter- are waiting for since 
years..!

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 04:33:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:33:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <6327C29A-B8FF-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB3D0AFE.30DFF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:20  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> While it's possible to test on one machine and code on another, such a
>> workflow is inherently less productive.
> 
> Only if you actually end up needing to debug something specific to the
> non-development platform. Revolution isn't a perfect cross-platform
> solution, but it is very good. If the need for platform-specific
> debugging is lessened, the need for cross-platform development is
> similarly lessened.

Exactly.  So once Rev becomes perfect the need for cross-platform
development goes away.

But in our imperfect world Rev is merely great, so the need remains....

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 04:39:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:39:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <490B276E-B900-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB3D0C8C.30E07%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:27  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> A clearer differentiation could be possible with a product that
>> deploys to a
>> player only.  It may seem odd to the outside observer that an
>> application-building system that claims to offer total control over
>> the user
>> experience would hamper the exit of an application.  There are
>> different
>> (lower) expectations for a player app....
> 
> Wouldn't people then get the impression that a player app was all
> Revolution was capable of?

Er, because it's a player?

As a standalone application, one expects the user experience to be defined
by its author.  The splash screen is reasonably among them.  When RunRev
Ltd. is the author, we can expect to see their logo.

But to have a splash screen which is completely unrelated to the application
it appears in is a little odd.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From curry at pair.com  Fri Jul 18 04:44:01 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:44:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307180548.BAA04215@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307180548.BAA04215@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b01bb3d61d20ea6@[68.86.46.40]>

Geoff Canyon wrote (to various people):

>You have a point, but: show of hands -- who here has built an app for
>another platform without ever testing on that platform and had it just
>work? And who has had the exact opposite experience; serious
>platform-specific issues that required working on that platform to fix?

Also include: who has tried a stack on the other platform and had to 
change something before even getting to the stage of building an app?

I have. Most recently: last week.

>re: final compiles: it shouldn't matter, at least as far as the result.
>It should be byte-for-byte the same regardless of which platform you
>build on.

It would matter, obviously, or I wouldn't have mentioned it. (Hint: 
we were talking Studio + Express.)

>You can build for OS X on other platforms, just not for OS <=9.
>Obviously this issue is getting smaller as time passes.

:-)

These points people are making do need to be seriously considered. 
Remember, we're sold on Rev already! (Many of us are sold enough that 
I'm sure we could sell others.) We need a true discussion about these 
points.

Curry


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 04:55:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:55:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <84108E0A-B8E9-11D7-AA57-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <EFD1EB0C-B904-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:31  PM, David Vaughan wrote:

> Like any tool, Rev will have a population of bad programmers. They 
> will not be buying Enterprise and are unlikely to buy Studio. Whatever 
> the excellence of many Express buyers testing the RR waters, it 
> remains a fact that RR's proud splash will also sit on many of the 
> worst programs made with Rev; programs badly written and unsupported; 
> the author is not earning their living from them. This is just plain 
> bad publicity and you do not need it.

Revolution needs publicity. Any publicity. Okay, not publicity about 
the fact that Kevin actually does most of his programming in Java ;-) 
But there's a reason they say any publicity is good as long as they 
spell your name right.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 04:56:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:56:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CE2BD.30DDB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <080F9C05-B905-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:33  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> And no C environment hampers the exit of an application.

No, just the creation of them ;-)

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 04:58:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:58:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CE2BD.30DDB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4BF08D1E-B905-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:33  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> I know this doesn't help much but still, it seems unreasonable to
>> judge a language based on the work newbies do with it.
>
> On what planet do end-users have the time or interest to research the
> development systems their apps were made with sufficienty to 
> distinguish
> between different categories of licenses that evidently confuse even
> long-time users?

The point was made in response to the statement that developers/clients 
would reject Rev based on this issue.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 04:59:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:59:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CE425.30DDB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <83C8C031-B905-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:39  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> But some IDEs require a logo as well, a line I'd rather not cross.  My
> clients never had to cross it before, and we'd make an unholy noise if 
> we
> ever had to.  Fortunately the requirement as it stands for Studio and
> Enterprise are on par with C and other professional IDEs.

Exactly. The case against the exit screen would be much stronger if it 
were an across-the-board requirement. It's not.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 05:02:02 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:02:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <C2CF5628-B8FF-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BE468188-B905-11D7-A983-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

Hi Geoff,
On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 11:11 Europe/Vienna, Geoff Canyon wrote:

>
>>> You can build for OS X on other platforms, just not for OS <=9.
>>> Obviously this issue is getting smaller as time passes.
>>
>> Today 60% of Mac users still use OS 9 or earlier.
>> And if I can build OS X apps on other platforms, why does Scott tell 
>> me I
>> need to make Mach-O builds from OS X and not OS 9?
>
> I thought you could build for OS X on OS 9, but maybe not -- it's been 
> awhile since I opened Rev on a Classic machine, and far be it from me 
> to contradict the Word of Raney. ;-)
>
> I wasn't saying that there aren't still a lot of OS 9 users, just that 
> their numbers are no longer increasing.

please start to thing with the Endusers head...
(not so much developers still use in OS9 but Millions of Endusers!!)

As Richard said before:
Forget Runtime Revolution Ltd., forget Fourth World/Sons o'
Thunder/Altuit/et al.   We don't matter; ultimately, only the end-user
matters.
Only the End User matters....
Thats the big point. And this should be repeat more frequently here
my 2 cent

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 05:02:34 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:02:34 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CF43B.1ADE%david@kwinter.ca>
Message-ID: <EDB10CC6-B905-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:47  PM, David Kwinter wrote:

> On 7/18/03 12:20 AM, "Geoff Canyon" <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com> wrote:
>
>> Everyone say it with me:
>>
>>     Hi, my name is Geoff Canyon, and I use Revolution.
>
> Playing devil's advocate, I'd like to point out that some hard core
> developers may not want to promote Revolution. Simply put, Revolution 
> is a
> very serious competitive advantage. Such programmers may only want Rev 
> to
> barely survive.

Paul Graham has made the exact same point in some detail regarding his 
tool of choice: LISP. He regards it as the secret weapon that allowed 
his company to be successful against larger competitors.

That said, I don't think any of us are currently at risk of the market 
being flooded with Revolution developers. When Revolution reaches the 
market penetration of, say, Apple, then there may be cause for concern.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 05:04:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:04:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <6FA25D15-B8EC-11D7-8465-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <173F4AFA-B906-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:52  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> Geoff do you know if the current 50% off prices will continue 
> including the 2.1 release?

I think that's a safe assumption.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Jul 18 05:04:33 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:04:33 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <a05111b01bb3d61d20ea6@[68.86.46.40]>
References: <200307180548.BAA04215@www.runrev.com>
	 <a05111b01bb3d61d20ea6@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <1058522210.25267.8.camel@www.kmax.net>

With the include support of most of the professional-grade (ACID) SQL
RDBMS, the RunRev Team will need to build a big marketing effort to do
Rev best knowed as a real professional-grade alternative to applications
servers products alike BEA Weblogic, IBM WebSphere or Macromedia
ColdFusion. That will need money too and it's why i accept with pleasure
to have to go to purchase or renewal to the entreprise edition of RR
(it's really not as expensive, if we compare to the previous named "over
ip" applications servers products are).
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 05:06:02 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:06:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CE6EB.30DDD%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5653E078-B906-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:51  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Yes, it is time to stand up and be counted.  But before we can be 
> counted we
> must first stand up, and stand proudly.  Hampering an app's exit is 
> not a
> proud moment.

By that standard we should lobby against splash screens in general. 
They waste the user's time.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From McManusM at KramerGraphics.com  Fri Jul 18 05:20:00 2003
From: McManusM at KramerGraphics.com (Mike McManus)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:20:00 2003
Subject: Shell Problem - Windows
Message-ID: <B46659EBDF26E94EA6F8C39E626A20F102AAE7@exchange.KramerGraphics.Com>

Each command returns something. The "identify" command returns info about the image file I am looking at. The "convert" command returns the completed file name. By returns, I mean in the output from the command.  for example The "identify -help" command I started this thread with should output the help text for the identify command. This works fine from the Dos prompt itself. or under OSX where I get the output. 

Just as the Shell function dictionary entry states "Runs a shell command and returns the command's output." 

> ----------
> From: 	use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com on behalf of Joel Rees
> Reply To: 	use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Sent: 	Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:08 PM
> To: 	use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: 	Re: Shell Problem - Windows
> 
> <reformat reason="long lines">
> > Now more info. tried another of the imagemagick commands which I need.
> > Still no result or response from the CLI, but the command did work and
> > converted the file as I expect.
> </reformat>
> 
> What result were you expecting, and how are you expecting to get the
> result into your program?
> 
> -- 
> Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
> Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
> http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 05:20:39 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:20:39 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <a05111b01bb3d61d20ea6@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <74CBABBD-B908-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 02:35  AM, curry wrote:

>> re: final compiles: it shouldn't matter, at least as far as the 
>> result.
>> It should be byte-for-byte the same regardless of which platform you
>> build on.
>
> It would matter, obviously, or I wouldn't have mentioned it. (Hint: we 
> were talking Studio + Express.)

I'm not sure I understand. Take two users, Marty Mac and Wendy Windows. 
Marty has Studio for OS X and Express for Windows. Wendy has Studio for 
Windows and Express for Mac. Both have the same debugging capabilities, 
i.e., Mac or Windows. Both have the same build ability: Marty and Wendy 
can both build for Mac OS X and Windows, and their apps will be 
byte-identical. Marty's Windows app, built in Studio on OS X, will be 
the same as Wendy's Windows app, built in Studio on XP.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 05:22:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:22:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <11DF15A0-B900-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <92C40AB3-B908-11D7-A983-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 11:13 Europe/Vienna, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> You wouldn't have to circumvent anything -- just purchase Studio and 
> poof, no closing screen.
>
> I disagree that a closing screen is a "proven bad idea." It seemed to 
> serve Macromedia pretty well for over half a decade.

The communism seemed to serve Russia pretty well for over half century. 
Sometimes anything looks well, because there is no alternative...

Now there are a lot of alternatives and nearly every day is coming 
another one, esp. from the point of view if MM development, which 
should still be the main focus - imho. Because its more difficult to 
struggle in the hardcore scripting market against M$?s .net or Sun 
Java. In the MM market is easier to get this 5% of the this MM market, 
because there is not such a domination like M$ or SUN.

I did a job like this in my "former" life. I pushed olivetti PC?s 
maketshare from "not registered" to the second place behind IBM with 
12% marketshare in the eighties here in Austria. I think I know a bit 
what I m talkin about... The way of doing the business is always the 
same, only the actors are changing...

Ahhh... whats the file limit of the list here, before I begin to write 
the list...?;)

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 05:25:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:25:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BE468188-B905-11D7-A983-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <0A3F0CCA-B909-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 02:53  AM, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:

> As Richard said before:
> Forget Runtime Revolution Ltd., forget Fourth World/Sons o'
> Thunder/Altuit/et al.   We don't matter; ultimately, only the end-user
> matters.
> Only the End User matters....
> Thats the big point. And this should be repeat more frequently here
> my 2 cent

I don't know any other way to say it, so I'll just say it again: I 
think OS 9 users matter. They're great people, and they deserve to be 
supported.

All I said that started this is that their numbers are decreasing. Does 
anyone disagree with that? Unless you think there will be more OS 7/8/9 
users next year than there are now, please don't respond to tell me I 
should value OS 9 users. I do. Really.

;-)

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 05:28:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:28:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <EFD1EB0C-B904-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB3D17D6.30E1F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:31  PM, David Vaughan wrote:
> 
>> Like any tool, Rev will have a population of bad programmers. They
>> will not be buying Enterprise and are unlikely to buy Studio. Whatever
>> the excellence of many Express buyers testing the RR waters, it
>> remains a fact that RR's proud splash will also sit on many of the
>> worst programs made with Rev; programs badly written and unsupported;
>> the author is not earning their living from them. This is just plain
>> bad publicity and you do not need it.
> 
> Revolution needs publicity. Any publicity. Okay, not publicity about
> the fact that Kevin actually does most of his programming in Java ;-)
> But there's a reason they say any publicity is good as long as they
> spell your name right.

Cultural beliefs and axioms should not be confused with logic.

What may work for the general public does not necessarily hold true for the
specialized subset of folks in our gene pool interested in programming.

One of the traits of the programmer personality type is that they are
generally of higher average intelligence than the gene pool as a whole, and
accordingly tend to be pursuaded more by reason and less by emotional or
popularity factors than the average bear.

An unusually discriminating audience, programmers are an exception to Geoff
Moore's observations about customer personality types across different
stages of technology adoption.

One could argue, and I'll wager that Moore would agree, that the distinction
in marketing programming tools is that the personality types driving the
"pre-chasm" phase he describes in 'Crossing the Chasm' are numbered in
greater proportion and extend far longer into the life cycle than one finds
with general consumer products.

In short, carefully managed publicity pays bigger dividends in markets full
of smart people than "publicity at any cost" strategies.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 05:29:02 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:29:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <EDB10CC6-B905-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB3D183D.30E1F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> That said, I don't think any of us are currently at risk of the market
> being flooded with Revolution developers. When Revolution reaches the
> market penetration of, say, Apple, then there may be cause for concern.

For those of us here now it would be cause for celebration, as we'd be the
experts in this new field.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 05:33:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:33:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <5653E078-B906-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB3D1917.30E20%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:51  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Yes, it is time to stand up and be counted.  But before we can be
>> counted we
>> must first stand up, and stand proudly.  Hampering an app's exit is
>> not a
>> proud moment.
> 
> By that standard we should lobby against splash screens in general.
> They waste the user's time.

Not the good ones:  intro splash screens provide feedback about the
initialization process and go away when initialization's done.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Fri Jul 18 06:36:01 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Fri Jul 18 06:36:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <2F540864-B8DD-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com> 
References: <2F540864-B8DD-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <20030718113039.60958.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Geoff Canyon writes: 

> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 12:10  PM, miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote: 
> 
>> Excuse me?  The Starter Kit was already THE option for hobbyists!
>> So, in the single OS versions, do we get a slimmed-down engine optimized 
>> for that OS? If we can develop only for one OS, why carry all the unused 
>> (and unusable) baggage for the others?
>> Also, I can accept readily all the bugs in a Free version, but they're 
>> very hard to swallow in a paid version. (And please, don't tell me what a 
>> comparatively small bug count Rev has; it's really irrelevant.)
> 
> The Starter Kit was great for anyone who had the open-mindedness to look 
> beyond the popular conception of what can be done in ten lines of code and 
> the perseverance to work within the actual confines of that limit. 
>
Considering this subject relates to hobbyists, you offer a great supporting 
argument for keeping the 10-line limit in tact. 

> Ten lines of code is a very fuzzy limitation, because you can't know ahead 
> of time how clever you'll be at building within that limit, and you can't 
> even have a marginally accurate conception until you've used Revolution 
> extensively. 
> 
Again, exactly the kind of challenging nut a hobbyist enjoys cracking.
I believe you will find the hobbyists contributing solutions to problems 
that would otherwise go un- or under-answered because "real developers" 
simply can't justify the time investment. 

> The limitations on Express, on the other hand, are conceptually clean and 
> simple; anyone can grasp what they're getting without any experience of 
> Revolution at all.

Ah, but now we switch the subject from hobbyist to the general "anyone". I 
couldn't agree more in that case. I know several "designers" that want to do 
multimedia apps, and state emphatically that they are not programmers (and 
don't want to be). Express would be good for them to make an evaluation.
[snip]
> regards, 
> 
> Geoff Canyon
> gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com

miscdas 



From martin at harbourtown.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 06:38:01 2003
From: martin at harbourtown.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 06:38:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <l03130300bb3d8621d67a@[62.136.248.50]>

>On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 02:35  AM, curry wrote:
>
>>> re: final compiles: it shouldn't matter, at least as far as the
>>> result.
>>> It should be byte-for-byte the same regardless of which platform you
>>> build on.
>>
>> It would matter, obviously, or I wouldn't have mentioned it. (Hint: we
>> were talking Studio + Express.)
>
>Geoff Canyon replied :
>
>I'm not sure I understand. Take two users, Marty Mac and Wendy Windows.
>Marty has Studio for OS X and Express for Windows. Wendy has Studio for
>Windows and Express for Mac. Both have the same debugging capabilities,
>i.e., Mac or Windows. Both have the same build ability: Marty and Wendy
>can both build for Mac OS X and Windows, and their apps will be
>byte-identical. Marty's Windows app, built in Studio on OS X, will be
>the same as Wendy's Windows app, built in Studio on XP.

I've seen it reported in these lists several times that e.g. windows
standalones created on a mac will take longer to startup than the same
thing built on the target platform, because the internal scripts or
what-have-you have to be translated to the local format at runtime each
time the program runs. And therefore it has been recommended to build on
the target platform if possible.

I'm *not* saying the deals on offer are necessarily unreasonable because of
this, but I mention this because it seems to me not quite correct to say
that there is no difference between building for windows on mac and
building for windows on windows.

regards

martin





From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 06:56:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 06:56:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <20030718113039.60958.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <94209E22-B915-11D7-895C-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

hi miscdas
On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 13:30 Europe/Vienna, miscdas at boxfrog.com 
wrote:

> Ah, but now we switch the subject from hobbyist to the general 
> "anyone". I couldn't agree more in that case. I know several 
> "designers" that want to do multimedia apps, and state emphatically 
> that they are not programmers (and don't want to be). Express would be 
> good for them to make an evaluation.

Thats the point...
I think that potential is very underestimated here...

MM developer dont want to become Hardcore Coder. And I think its not a 
good idea to treat them as poor programmers... Imho its better to try 
to bring them to rev...
If this new more complicated license/pricing system which is the right 
way to do that...?

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Fri Jul 18 07:24:00 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:24:00 2003
Subject: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR
In-Reply-To: <DD65EEAC-B900-11D7-A983-003065430226@internettrainer.com> 
References: <DD65EEAC-B900-11D7-A983-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <20030718121801.39269.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Wolfgang M. Bereuter writes:
[snip]
> 
> On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 03:25 Europe/Vienna, Dan Shafer wrote:
>>  
>> 
>> RTFText supports a tiny subset of the RTF file format. The docs list the 
>> formatting controls in RTF that are supported by RR. Out of something 
>> like 1300 control words in the RTF spec, RR supports approximately 30. 
>> The support is so thin that even a fairly simple book chapter -- which 
>> includes things like bulleted lists, code samples, and four-level 
>> headings, renders quite poorly and unusably.

Yes, it's a shame for those that want to develop text-centric apps.  MC/Rev 
look to the developers to help prioritize where to put their $$ for 
new/improved features. So, don't expect text handling improvements to 
develop very quickly. 

> I have the same rtf problem since the beginning. Write and format in one 
> tool and transfer all that without loosing the formating to other tools. 
> Thats very important for writing or working with a lot of text, 
> translations and so on. I have struggled a lot for the rtf feature in 
> rev...
> Now we have it at least!!!
> I know its not perfect, but again we have it...;)
> The biggest problem is -as always- M$.

I must correct you here. The problem is not MS per say, but rather the RTF 
specification; it is closer to a "guideline" than to a specification that 
explicitly states what is and is not allowed.  MS simply includes more 
"features" in their interpretation of the RTF specs than most other 
companies do. There are some good things that come out of it, such as text 
with full justification. The bad part is, VERY few programs know how to 
display fully justified text. So, the choice is to give it up, or use HTML. 
(Although, if my memomry serves me correctly, Rev choked on imported fully 
justified HTML as well.) 


> But there is ( I dont know) no 
> other way to deal with formated text between OSes.

No? What happened to HTML? 

> What I do is: I write in Mellel OSX only). It does good rtf import also, 
> but I have not imported Word rtf files until now. I write in it
> I select the text copy it to the clipboard
> set the rev textfield to rtf and paste it to the rev textfield.
> That works fine. Yes you have to do a bit of fine tuning with tabulators, 
> but not the whole slave formatting job again and again. Nearly 95% of the 
> formatting is correct here... (Dont know what happens if the text is very 
> big, I paste only small parts to the rev textfields up to 3 pages)
> Maybe there is a way for XML I dont know how this works...
> The future could be pdf import..? 
> 
> Hope that helps 
> 
> regards
> Wolfgang M. Bereuter 
> 
===== 

miscdas


From igor at pixelmedia.com.au  Fri Jul 18 07:28:01 2003
From: igor at pixelmedia.com.au (Igor Couto)
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:28:01 2003
Subject: Can Rev run 2 scripts simultaneously?
Message-ID: <75C20EE4-B91A-11D7-90F9-000393AD9396@pixelmedia.com.au>

HI all!

I have a project in which there is a script that drives some drawing 
accompanied by an animation in a window (stack). The problem is that 
depending on the drawing/animation settings that the user applies, the 
entire process can take up to a couple of minutes. Even though I have 
provided a progress bar to give feedback to the user, I have found that 
while the drawing and animation are taking place, I can't do anything 
else! - Rev's menus don't respond until the script ends.

I would very much like to be able to carry on with other tasks, while 
the drawing and the animation keeps running in the background - is that 
at all possible?

I thought that if I used the 'send ... in time' command form, that it 
might solve the problem. So setup a button with the send command in a 
substack, trying to use that to trigger the animation. Nevertheless, 
even though the button's script is finished, once the drawing script 
starts in the other stack, I don't seem to be able to use any other 
interface item until it is finished! What am I missing?

I feel that somehow I should be able to run 2 or more scripts 
simultaneously - but can't seem to find a way to do that!

thanks in advance for any insights!

--
Igor de Oliveira Couto
----------------------------------
igor at pixelmedia.com.au
----------------------------------



From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Fri Jul 18 07:30:00 2003
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham)
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:30:00 2003
Subject: Movie with a mask?
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030718135354.00ce5a20@pop.wanadoo.fr>

Thanks to all who replied - valuable stuff in each message!

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:14:32 +0200, Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

>Hi Graham,
>[...]
> > But what if the movie requires a different mask per frame?


>i don't think this is possible at all :-(
>
>Neither with RR nor with QuickTime...
>
>In QT you can only have one static mask (starting with version 5, i
>think...)
>
>Haven't tried to play such a movie in RR yet. Don't have one at hand...
>(Anyone did it? Does it work?)

Yup, I did it - no real problem (for the tiny ones I was using anyway) to 
get them to appear, apart from the masking issue. However there appeared to 
be a big performance hit, particularly if you allowed the user to drag the 
player object (with the movie stopped) - this worked far worse than it did 
in SuperCard - but obviously SC has the advantage of only having to work 
with the MacOSs. If you want to see my movies (which are really just tiny 
animations) I can send them to you off list.

>---
>Try to use one more more animated gifs.
>
>I think this is the only chance to have "moving masks"
>(a.k.a. "travelling matte" in serious video-editing business ;-)
>in Revolution.

OK, that's my very next thing. I'll tell you how I get on.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:38:35 -0700, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

>If you don't have a lot of frames ('a lot' is a relative term) you could use
>a series of PNG images which are masked as needed and swap them in sequence
>in a button object.

Wow! I hadn't thought of that - the big problem there would seem to be 
speed (I am worried that some of my users - schools in the UK, chronically 
short of money - may have very slow machines). But I am keen to try it.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:06:06 -0700, "Jim Lambert" <jiml at netrin.com> wrote:

>As previously suggested animatedGIF or PNG.
>
>Or, if the background upon which your movie is lain will always be the same,
>just use an old trick - composite that backgroud right into your movie then
>run it in an exactly-positioned rect - no mask needed.

Yes, I can manipulate the design of my app to make this possible, so I 
guess that would be the way to go - but as I'm still worried about the 
performance hit, I'll probably try one of the other solutions.

The hidden problem for me in using the other solutions suggested is that I 
want to be able to run the movies forwards or backwards with different 
speeds and always with sync sound (so that the slow speed movies would have 
a deeper, slower sound for example). This is a no-brainer in QT, but for 
every other method (AFAIK) one is just stuck having a whole set of 'movies' 
called, e.g.

slowest, very slow, slow, normal, fast, very fast, fastest - with 
appropriate sound tracks.

Much more messy. OTOH, I think I agree with some other listers who have 
hinted that QT is not **really** a cross-platform solution if one's users 
are hard-pressed non-experts (in my case, teachers who are not teaching 
IT). Much as I wish Apple to succeed, I do see it as an additional 
difficulty to insist that my users download and configure QT.

Thanks again

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  




From igor at pixelmedia.com.au  Fri Jul 18 07:35:01 2003
From: igor at pixelmedia.com.au (Igor Couto)
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:35:01 2003
Subject: How to use a button to STOP a handler?
Message-ID: <73EF7C04-B91B-11D7-90F9-000393AD9396@pixelmedia.com.au>

Hi all! - again...

I have a stack with a script that sometimes takes a long time to 
complete. I would like to allow the user to click on a button to stop 
the handler, if so desired (the handler is simply drawing geometrical 
lines on the card). The problem is that while the script is running, I 
don't seem to be able to have access to any other control in the 
interface - not even Rev's menus!

I tried starting the drawing handler from another stack, using a 'send 
drawRoutine in 1 sec'  command form, thinking that this construct might 
place the running script in a separate thread, thereby freeing the 
interface, but it make absolutely no difference...

How can I achieve this? - is there a way?

Many thanks in advance for any suggestions,

--
Igor de Oliveira Couto
----------------------------------
igor at pixelmedia.com.au
----------------------------------



From vikramsingh at mailandnews.com  Fri Jul 18 07:40:00 2003
From: vikramsingh at mailandnews.com (Vikram Singh)
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:40:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <3F1F6AC6@mailandnews.com>

What is rev's target market? If Rev is smart, the should be also targeting the 
open-source types (the really swift ones causing Corporations to lose their 
sleep). I'll bet my friends in this arena will puke (okay going too far... but 
you get the idea) if told that apps built by them shall be carrying a colorful 
parting screen. They want to keep the *Corporation* far far away from their 
end users. Its just the way their minds are hardwired, maybe.

Okay look another way, if you want to target web developers, when was the last 
time even MS told them to put 'This Active Server Page created on blah blah.. 
Copyright MS' line in their code. It doesnt happen this way in the web 
services world. There are just useful pages generated by different programs. 
And optional credits given by smitten developers to the application powering 
the service.

In the coming 6 months, I'd rather see a few articles on Rev in a few top 
notch websites/magazines that will get new users downloading Rev (along with 
free professional grade applications on that site) than 10,000 apps carrying 
colorful logos (and thereby *hoping* to get new users for rev). How many of us 
remember the last popup ad we ever took seriously. As far as an end user is 
concerned a popup ad = a parting screen.

Vikram


>===== Original Message From Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> =====
>Geoff Canyon wrote:

<snip>

>In short, carefully managed publicity pays bigger dividends in markets full
>of smart people than "publicity at any cost" strategies.

<snip>
>--
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Media Corporation
> Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Jul 18 07:47:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:47:00 2003
Subject: Movie with a mask?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030718135354.00ce5a20@pop.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <BB3D38CD.DAED%scott@tactilemedia.com>

>> If you don't have a lot of frames ('a lot' is a relative term) you could use
>> a series of PNG images which are masked as needed and swap them in sequence
>> in a button object.
> 
> Wow! I hadn't thought of that - the big problem there would seem to be
> speed (I am worried that some of my users - schools in the UK, chronically
> short of money - may have very slow machines). But I am keen to try it.

Unless you're talking truly old machines or 640x480 sized images, I tjink
you'll find the speed to be very acceptable.


>> As previously suggested animatedGIF or PNG.
>> 
>> Or, if the background upon which your movie is lain will always be the same,
>> just use an old trick - composite that backgroud right into your movie then
>> run it in an exactly-positioned rect - no mask needed.
> 
> Yes, I can manipulate the design of my app to make this possible, so I
> guess that would be the way to go - but as I'm still worried about the
> performance hit, I'll probably try one of the other solutions.
> 
> The hidden problem for me in using the other solutions suggested is that I
> want to be able to run the movies forwards or backwards with different
> speeds and always with sync sound (so that the slow speed movies would have
> a deeper, slower sound for example). This is a no-brainer in QT, but for
> every other method (AFAIK) one is just stuck having a whole set of 'movies'
> called, e.g.
> 
> slowest, very slow, slow, normal, fast, very fast, fastest - with
> appropriate sound tracks.

As you noted, a movie format is certainly going to be a lot easier for you
to manage than frame-by-frame animation or trying to synch up audio with an
animated GIF.  Synching sound with frame-by-frame animations is possible,
but it's more work:

  if the icon of btn myButton = id of img frame1.png then play mySound

It sounds like you need to prioritize your requirements:

- If the key aspect of your project is carefully synched animations and
audio then you should probably go with QuickTime (and/or additional movie
formats) and design your stacks around the QuickTime media.

- If the key aspect of your project is masked animation and sound is less
critical then frame-by-frame animation could work.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Fri Jul 18 07:58:01 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:58:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307180930.FAA19856@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3DB9E2.ACA%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi list,

here is my two Euro-cent on this topic.
I think that many people will miss the free starter kit, as it had one relly
huge advantage over a 30-days trial.

>>time<<

You probably might know this scenario:
You want to try a new piece of Software. You Download the 30-days trial
installer, install it play around for a day or two and suddenly you get
really busy with your job, girlfriend, kids or whatever...
You open up the program you wanted to give a testdrive and get a nice
dialogue box saying that the demo expiered...

What would you do? Go and buy the programm?
I guess I wouldn?t.

Next point. Open the 30-days trial without a printed book, don?t know where
to start without a multimedia background. Get frustrated within the first 2
days. Open up again after a period of time -> Demo expiered.

IMHO a 30 days trial does only make sense if it counts the effective days of
use, not the installation Date.
How will this be in the new version(s) of Revolution?

I really understand that RunRev need to make their living.
I also think the pricing is fair.

But I guess with the new limitations Revolution looses a lot of its
sexappeal and the small "inconveniences" will be a bit harder to swallow for
new potential purchasers.
So I guess without a really good promotion concept and 3rd party books the
userbase won?t grow.

The new concept lacks simplicity and the charme I loved about Rev.
Develop once, debug, test and publish anywhere.
And due to the lack of localized versions many people (on the geman market
at last) might consider other tools...

I?m not complaining. Just thinking a lot.

Regards,

Malte



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Fri Jul 18 08:43:00 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Fri Jul 18 08:43:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <94209E22-B915-11D7-895C-003065430226@internettrainer.com> 
References: <94209E22-B915-11D7-895C-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <20030718133702.4143.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Wolfgang M. Bereuter writes: 

> hi miscdas
> On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 13:30 Europe/Vienna, miscdas at boxfrog.com 
> wrote: 
> 
>> Ah, but now we switch the subject from hobbyist to the general "anyone". 
>> I couldn't agree more in that case. I know several "designers" that want 
>> to do multimedia apps, and state emphatically that they are not 
>> programmers (and don't want to be). Express would be good for them to 
>> make an evaluation.
> 
> Thats the point...
> I think that potential is very underestimated here... 
> 
> MM developer dont want to become Hardcore Coder. And I think its not a 
> good idea to treat them as poor programmers... Imho its better to try to 
> bring them to rev...

Wolfgang, let me add that I belong to other MM authoring lists, and the 
biggest single complaint by the "designers" is that they DON"T want to write 
code, scripts whatever; they want drag-and-drop or click-and-place objects, 
and then "script helpers" that list commands and functions that a selected 
object supports along with an example of the syntax in HUMAN UNDERSTANDABLE 
(as opposed to programmer understable) terms. Rev certainly doesn't have 
that, and from John's post (subject: "Me the potenital buyer"), 
documentation that is geared to programmers and leaves out others is a huge 
barrier to overcome, resulting in many giving up early in the game. This is 
complaint number 2 by the newbies. 

> If this new more complicated license/pricing system which is the right way 
> to do that...? 
> 
The new licensing does nothing to rectify the documentation needed to 
address the  "non-programmer newbie that really COULD eventially be a paying 
customer if only there were coherent, concise newbie-friendly docs and 
tutorials". Sarah was kind enough to list some of the available mish-mash of 
dcoumentaion and help--
"Metacard has a good tutorial: mtp.mc at ..."
"After that, since there aren't any Rev books out there yet, I recommend a 
HyperCard book..." ('OUCH!' says Newbie, 'What am I doing reading about 
Hyper whatever--isn't this Revolution??') 

"Also any demo stacks can be loaded straight into Revolution although they 
can have some problems if they use menus..." ('Demo problems?', laments 
Newbie, 'I haven't even started to evaluate Revoluton and you're telling me 
I am going to have problems with Demos?? OUCH again!') 

"I'm not sure that all these are still in print, but they can usually be 
found." ('Oh boy", moans Newbie, 'now I have to go searching for the books, 
too?!?') 

"...I assume you have done the tutorials that come with Revolution and if 
you have Rev 2.0, you will see the new Cookbook section which has quite a 
lot of example scripts. There are also numerous stacks available at the User 
Contributions section of the RunRev website and other places - all of which 
can be taken apart, examined, changed, tested etc so you can work out what 
is going on."  ('Well', despairs Newbie, 'I wish I knew something about how 
to "take apart and examine scripts". But since I have barely even started, 
and can't find a good book for beginners, and have to go from site-to-site 
to find examples, and couldn't find any instructions about taking apart 
scripts in the dictionary, (maybe it's there, but I can't find it) I guess 
this Revolution thing just isn't for me. I must be really stupid--or maybe 
you "programmers" are all geniuses!')
And so departs another frustrated Newbie, once hopeful of authoring some 
"cool apps", now fallen back into the trenches of despair. 


> regards
> Wolfgang M. Bereuter 
> 
> Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
> INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
> Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
 

miscdas


From Revinfo1155 at aol.com  Fri Jul 18 08:49:01 2003
From: Revinfo1155 at aol.com (Revinfo1155 at aol.com)
Date: Fri Jul 18 08:49:01 2003
Subject: main Stacks and substacks
Message-ID: <1f0.d6c2b78.2c49530e@aol.com>

1. How many substacks can a main stack have?

2. Can a mainstack with substacks be placed into another mainstack with 
substacks? Or can one just place mainstacks which become substacks of another 
mainstack?

Thanks for help

Jack
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From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Jul 18 09:05:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:05:01 2003
Subject: main Stacks and substacks
In-Reply-To: <1f0.d6c2b78.2c49530e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <D15C2DEF-B927-11D7-820F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Jack,  (hijack? :-)

> 1. How many substacks can a main stack have?

I am not sure...

I know that the size of a stack, card or background can be up to 4 GB.

This may include all substacks, too.

But i am sure it will take a looooong time, until you reach this limit 
:-)

Please notify this list about the exact number, when you get the first 
error
reporting that you have reached the "substacks-in-a-mainstack" limit ;-)

> 2. Can a mainstack with substacks be placed into another mainstack
> with substacks?

No.

You will have to extract the substacks to separate mainstacks in that 
case and set
their "mainstack"-prop to the other mainstack...

> Or can one just place mainstacks which become substacks of another 
> mainstack?

Yo/Nes ;-)

In priciple that  statement is correct.

But you can always change the "mainstack"-prop of a substack like:

...
set the mainstack of stack "sub a" of stack "main a" to "main b"
...

> Thanks for help

You're welcome :-)

> Jack

Hope that helps.


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 09:08:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:08:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <20030718113039.60958.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <41F50877-B928-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 04:30  AM, miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:

> Geoff Canyon writes:
>> The Starter Kit was great for anyone who had the open-mindedness to 
>> look beyond the popular conception of what can be done in ten lines 
>> of code and the perseverance to work within the actual confines of 
>> that limit.
> Considering this subject relates to hobbyists, you offer a great 
> supporting argument for keeping the 10-line limit in tact.

The feedback on this list, in the support email, and elsewhere, has 
been that this isn't the case. Few people look at the ten line limit as 
a useful amount of code.

>> Ten lines of code is a very fuzzy limitation, because you can't know 
>> ahead of time how clever you'll be at building within that limit, and 
>> you can't even have a marginally accurate conception until you've 
>> used Revolution extensively.
> Again, exactly the kind of challenging nut a hobbyist enjoys cracking.
> I believe you will find the hobbyists contributing solutions to 
> problems that would otherwise go un- or under-answered because "real 
> developers" simply can't justify the time investment.

Again, the feedback has contradicted this. No one has expressed 
enjoyment at puzzling their way within the ten-line limit, and many 
have expressed frustration.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 09:20:04 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:20:04 2003
Subject: Can Rev run 2 scripts simultaneously?
In-Reply-To: <75C20EE4-B91A-11D7-90F9-000393AD9396@pixelmedia.com.au>
Message-ID: <F5307EB4-B929-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

Depending on how your task breaks down, send...in would be one way to 
do this. You need to break the task into distinct pieces, each of which 
is small enough not to interfere with the user. The alternative is to 
insert

wait 0 milliseconds with messages

in your script. Again, this has to be interspersed enough that you pay 
enough attention to the user.

With either solution, you need to make sure that the user is protected 
from breaking things. Don't allow the user to (re)start the process 
repeatedly, for example.

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 05:22  AM, Igor Couto wrote:

> HI all!
>
> I have a project in which there is a script that drives some drawing 
> accompanied by an animation in a window (stack). The problem is that 
> depending on the drawing/animation settings that the user applies, the 
> entire process can take up to a couple of minutes. Even though I have 
> provided a progress bar to give feedback to the user, I have found 
> that while the drawing and animation are taking place, I can't do 
> anything else! - Rev's menus don't respond until the script ends.
>
> I would very much like to be able to carry on with other tasks, while 
> the drawing and the animation keeps running in the background - is 
> that at all possible?
>
> I thought that if I used the 'send ... in time' command form, that it 
> might solve the problem. So setup a button with the send command in a 
> substack, trying to use that to trigger the animation. Nevertheless, 
> even though the button's script is finished, once the drawing script 
> starts in the other stack, I don't seem to be able to use any other 
> interface item until it is finished! What am I missing?
>
> I feel that somehow I should be able to run 2 or more scripts 
> simultaneously - but can't seem to find a way to do that!
>
> thanks in advance for any insights!
>
> --
> Igor de Oliveira Couto
> ----------------------------------
> igor at pixelmedia.com.au
> ----------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From jamesjrichards at lineone.net  Fri Jul 18 09:29:03 2003
From: jamesjrichards at lineone.net (James Richards)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:29:03 2003
Subject: Docs on Palm (was Rev 2.02/New pricing)
In-Reply-To: <200307180214.WAA26168@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3DC052.36F1%jamesjrichards@lineone.net>

on 18/7/03  12:53:24 +1000, Sarah <sarahr at genesearch.com.au> wrote:

> (For casual reading, I'd love a version that could go on to my Palm. If anyone
> has any great ideas how to do that, let me know.)

and on 18 Jul 2003 16:36:40 +1000 Sarah <sarahr at genesearch.com.au> wrote

> Finally, if you want the docs in a separate electronic format, go to
> http://www.inspiredlogic.com/downloads.html where Geoff Canyon has a
> stack that will export the docs into html, rtf or text.

Sarah,

What functionality are you looking for? I use DocumentsToGo from dataviz
(http://www.dataviz.com) to put WP documents on my Palm compatible. If you
use Geoff's stack and open the docs in your WP do any tidying you need to
then DTG will turn it into a Palm file. It can either do a basic text file
or a slightly more formatted file including a bookmarking.

On Mac it will do AppleWorks or Word documents, also spreadsheets and
(depending on software/hardware) graphics and PDF files. I guess it will
also do the standards for Windows too.

Regards

James
-- 
James J Richards

jamesjrichards at lineone.net

Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063 



From hansydelm at ntlworld.com  Fri Jul 18 09:32:01 2003
From: hansydelm at ntlworld.com (Hans Ydelm)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:32:01 2003
Subject: newsgroup
In-Reply-To: <41F50877-B928-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <41F50877-B928-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <1058538327.1595.8.camel@linux104>

Hi All,

This must have come up from time to time but due to the amount of
traffic on this mailing list wouldn't a newsgroup be better?

Regards,
Hans. 



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 09:38:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:38:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <3F1F6AC6@mailandnews.com>
Message-ID: <672D47C3-B92C-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

Anyone who doesn't want the exit screen has merely to purchase the 
Studio or Enterprise license, neither of which includes it.

The exit screen is part of the bargain when you get Revolution for 
(currently) $75.

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 05:32  AM, Vikram Singh wrote:

> What is rev's target market? If Rev is smart, the should be also 
> targeting the
> open-source types (the really swift ones causing Corporations to lose 
> their
> sleep). I'll bet my friends in this arena will puke (okay going too 
> far... but
> you get the idea) if told that apps built by them shall be carrying a 
> colorful
> parting screen. They want to keep the *Corporation* far far away from 
> their
> end users. Its just the way their minds are hardwired, maybe.
>
> Okay look another way, if you want to target web developers, when was 
> the last
> time even MS told them to put 'This Active Server Page created on blah 
> blah..
> Copyright MS' line in their code. It doesnt happen this way in the web
> services world. There are just useful pages generated by different 
> programs.
> And optional credits given by smitten developers to the application 
> powering
> the service.
>
> In the coming 6 months, I'd rather see a few articles on Rev in a few 
> top
> notch websites/magazines that will get new users downloading Rev 
> (along with
> free professional grade applications on that site) than 10,000 apps 
> carrying
> colorful logos (and thereby *hoping* to get new users for rev). How 
> many of us
> remember the last popup ad we ever took seriously. As far as an end 
> user is
> concerned a popup ad = a parting screen.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From kevin at runrev.com  Fri Jul 18 09:39:00 2003
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:39:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <l03130300bb3d8621d67a@[62.136.248.50]>
Message-ID: <BB3D7D2E.1D130%kevin@runrev.com>

Hi Folks,

I'm at MacWorld at the moment.  Recently, we've taken over MetaCard, gone to
WWDC, are at MacWorld, have almost completed 2.1 and overhauled the product
line up.  Answers to all the questions you are posting exist, no one has had
time to release them and we needed to release the pricing policy available
for *new* users at MacWorld.

Please, rest assured that the policies for existing license holders and
original Revolutionaries will be generous and flexible, and the various
negative scenarios are either far fetched or not true.  I'll post all the
details when we have a chance to write them up - after the show.  So hold
off for a few days and do some development for now :-)

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited: Software at the Speed of Thought
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Jul 18 09:40:01 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:40:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <l03130300bb3d8621d67a@[62.136.248.50]>
Message-ID: <C264D37C-B92C-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 04:27  AM, Martin Baxter wrote:

> I've seen it reported in these lists several times that e.g. windows
> standalones created on a mac will take longer to startup than the same
> thing built on the target platform, because the internal scripts or
> what-have-you have to be translated to the local format at runtime each
> time the program runs. And therefore it has been recommended to build 
> on
> the target platform if possible.

Yes. Well. Erm... I never said the bytes were in the same _order_, just 
that they were the same. ;-)

In reality, for most apps this has no consequence. Functionality should 
be identical. The translation happens transparently, and except in the 
case of _large_ quantities of text is extremely fast. Anyone have a 
benchmark?

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Jul 18 09:42:05 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:42:05 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307180509.BAA32122@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3D54D5.1DA1%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello Rev folk,

I agree with Chipp on this. I _am_ a newbie, in the sense that I haven't
done much work in Rev, and I'm _not_ a professional programmer. I want to
create solutions for the disabled and some eduware, for right now. Who
knows, maybe someday I'll become a pro, but not right now. What that means
is that it may be more important for it to have some immediate function, and
to experiment with some individual solutions, than to have a polished look
and feel. I will take the lead in staying in contact with users to see what
works and what they want changed, etc., but commercial consumption may come
later if at all. Nevertheless,there may be some of these kinds of things
floating around for experimentation and testing.

So, a few deliberately unfinished, unpolished projects may be out there. I
don't want "Made with Rev..." stuff on them, or even my own, at least not
until the modifications and cohesive assembly of some modules are more
complete. That actually might never happen with some things.

> From: "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com>
> Subject: RE: Rev 2.02/New pricing
> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:09:45 -0500
> 
> Now, I'm not trying to denigrate or belittle newbie RR programmers at
> all...it's just one would expect RR to want to splash their logo on the
> *best* of it's developer's work...not the beginners. I think the ABOUT box
> (the way it is currently) is just fine.



From curry at pair.com  Fri Jul 18 09:45:01 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:45:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing (The novel)
In-Reply-To: <200307180929.FAA19772@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307180929.FAA19772@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b01bb3d9ddfe664@[68.86.46.40]>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

>  >> re: final compiles: it shouldn't matter, at least as far as the
>  >> result.
>...
>  > It would matter, obviously, or I wouldn't have mentioned it. (Hint: we
>  > were talking Studio + Express.)
>...
>Both have the same build ability: Marty and Wendy
>can both build for Mac OS X and Windows, and their apps will be
>byte-identical. Marty's Windows app, built in Studio on OS X, will be
>the same as Wendy's Windows app, built in Studio on XP.

I'm trying to involve you in considering these points more 
thoroughly, rather than just giving you the short answer. 
Byte-identical standalones are only one aspect to consider in this 
situation.

In fact, bringing Mary and Wendy into the picture may be a good idea, 
because the difference I'm trying to get you to see involves the 
developers and their work environment in addition to the Rev IDE and 
the applications produced. Imagine Marty and Wendy at work on their 
applications. They edit, they build...then what? (You may have to 
consider a few different types of people and work too--to make it 
simple, let's just compare me to Marty and assume he's making 
shareware.)

Let's take a look at Marty in his small home office room....

So, Marty tweaks and gets the Windows copy working right on his 
Express version, then copies the stack back to his Mac.

Then, he gets his Windows app built from his Mac and (as Martin 
suggested--good example) he opens it on PC to change the file format. 
Even if it was a small enough file to ignore that, how is he going to 
package the file? It depends on what Marty is using, but he may very 
well compress and package his Windows versions with different 
software (Windows software) than his Mac versions. And there may be 
other similar needs. So he still needs to transfer the app back to 
his PC.

Now, is Marty on a network? Maybe, maybe not. Since he's using Studio 
rather than Enterprise, let's assume maybe he's still not set up 
quite that well with equipment, and isn't networked. So he may 
transfer by internet or removable media, and the stack itself may 
have fit on a floppy, but the app won't, so Marty may have to take 
some time switching internet connections (he's just a Studio user, 
remember, and may be cutting a few corners) or he may have to go get 
a zip drive or two if he doesn't have one.

Ah...now the file is on the internet! But wait--is it the final 
release, or a beta? Either way, Marty may find that users report a 
bug or two that must be fixed right away. And he may have some 
problems with files or servers. Any number of things may make Marty 
have to go back and repeat his compiling process--and here's where 
the concept of workflow really begins to kick in: you don't just 
consider one iteration of a process; you have to consider what 
happens when it repeats, too. It may be repeated on the same project 
as well as repeated on different projects.

In fact, that's precisely the reason why Marty had purchased an 
Express version too (a rather ungainly and expensive combination to 
keep up after the initial sale price ended) to add to what was 
supposed to be a rather complete solution in itself. Marty's Studio 
version cranked out byte-identical copies of Windows apps, but Marty 
was developing cross-platform, so he some changes and tweaks were 
often needed. He used platform-conditional code, as many other 
developers did, and that had to tested to see if there were no 
bugs--and often, even when there were no bugs, he saw places for 
improvements to be added when testing.

If that only happened once, it wouldn't have been so bad. If it was 
only a case of verifying and changes were only needed once or twice a 
year, it wouldn't have been bad at all! But in fact, changes were 
often needed, and sometimes there were problems that were hard to 
track down and had to be tested repeatedly--each time jotting down 
notes and going back to try a few changes to the code, and repeating 
the tedious process of getting it back to the PC and opening again to 
try it again.

Finally, Marty had realized that his time was slipping away. His 
friend Wendy had told him he was getting to be a nervous wreck. In 
desperation, he had added an Express version and started juggling the 
two.

So why didn't Marty just get a Enterprise version? Is that the 
solution to workflow? Perhaps, but Marty bought Studio as a complete 
cross-platform tool within his budget. Can we blame him for doing 
this when he was encouraged to do so? Unfortunately, Marty's budget 
is still roughly the same. He and Wendy get together and look at his 
books--she's better with accounts--and they agree that he just can't 
swing it this year. Maybe next year. In fact, Wendy warns him that 
his finances aren't going to withstand his Express addiction much 
longer. Marty's sunken eyes look tiredly from his Mac, to his PC, and 
back to the Mac again. Is Studio a complete product? He can't deny 
it; it's byte-identical. But the workflow...the workflow.... Head in 
his hands, we leave him for the moment.

Another friend--Lee Linux--is using two Express editions--one for 
Linux, one for Mac. Lee had taken a look at Studio and shook his 
head--a somewhat lazy person who didn't fancy a long editing-testing 
cycle--but although it was a good area he was breaking into, there 
was still enough of the old attitude that a segment of Linux home 
users had about registering their software (although that was 
changing) that Lee didn't want to risk the big investment of the 
Enterprise edition. (Even half-price would have been a little above 
his head, but unfortunately, Lee came to Revolution a little too late 
to take advantage of it.)

So Lee was making software with Express and said, "So it has a quit 
screen--so what? I have a good workflow, okay? You guys look tired! 
How about me?" But one day Wendy, who worked in a school, actually 
saw a couple of people trying Lee's software at the computer lab. She 
moved closer and overheard one saying that she was interested in 
buying it the first time she looked--until she saw the promo screen 
when she quit. That didn't give her a good feeling about the 
reliability  of the software. Her colleague agreed--he told her of a 
bad experience his friend had with some software like that.

Wendy told Marty about it on the phone. "Should I tell Lee?" she 
said. "I don't know," he said, "but I'll never give in. I'll never 
have that splash screen." He was getting that weird tone again that 
he had so much lately, so Wendy ended the call quickly. She was 
worried about Marty. Lee might have few customers, but at least his 
health was okay....

-- I hope that *illustrates* some of the points that have been made. :-) --

Curry


From dan at shafermedia.com  Fri Jul 18 09:53:02 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:53:02 2003
Subject: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR
Message-ID: <8BF481F4-B92E-11D7-9117-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

Wolfgang Bereuter wrote:

>  I write in it
> I select the text copy it to the clipboard
> set the rev textfield to rtf and paste it to the rev textfield.

Wolfgang, could you elaborate just a bit? I don't quite know what you 
mean abou tsetting the textfield to RTF *before* you paste the text. Do 
you "set the rtfText of field 1 to 'a'" or some such thing? I think the 
rtfText of a field can only be set by supplying it with a string (which 
is generally something read from a file, I think). Or am I missing 
something?



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Jul 18 09:54:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:54:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <007458C4-B8FD-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIMEIJCNAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Geoff,

> There seem to be three arguments against the Express closing screen:
>
> 1. Potential clients/developers won't want the closing screen on their
> apps.
>     Answer: get Studio or Enterprise.
>
> 2. End Users will be frustrated by the closing screen.
>     Answer: it is (my understanding) brief and somewhat entertaining.
>

Forget these two...the issue is not even this third one...

> 3. Potential clients/developers will be turned off by the perceived
> lack of quality in Revolution-developed apps because awareness that a
> given app was created with Revolution will correlate with the
> newest/least serious developers.
>     Answer: this is the hardest to answer. The decline of Director is
> being blamed on the "Made with Director" campaign. Could that campaign
> also be credited with the previous success of Director? The product had
> a very good run. Maybe the right business plan is to gain awareness
> with such a campaign only until you see traction in the marketplace,
> and then pull the campaign and let your product speak with its own (now
> much louder) voice?

Now, it's plain to me, as an employee, you are doing your best to support
this policy. But have you really stopped and thought about this issue
carefully? I, too, am invested in the success of RR, not only from an
financial investor's viewpoint, but even moreso from a developer's one.

WE are not saying the splash screen killed Director -- that's NOT the main
point here. What we're saying is it killed the perception of the kind of
quality apps which can be made by Director. Referring to HyperCard (as you
did in another post) also, isn't the point. Not many of us attempted to sell
large-scale Enterprise apps on the HyperCard platform.

Here's the main point: The success of Revolution, ultimately, is a function
of a strong developer community and the perception of RR's ability to
accomplish real programming.

What ended up killing Director was the lack of both of the above.

Once it was perceived that Director was not powerful enough to create real
projects, no amount of discussion, nor examples could change the minds of
customers. Once *that* happened, it was only a matter of time until Director
died -- as the strong developer community left Director in favor of other
authoring tools.

The thought of many simpleton standalones at 2.5Mb each with the RR logo
blasted across them seems a sure fire way to create the impression that RR
is not a professional tool. Once this impression is created, it will be VERY
difficult to change. This in-product advertising is NOT in the best interest
of RR or it's developers.

Your many and quick-witted replies to this subject indicates to me this is
serious issue. I suggest your time (and ours) may be better spent in trying
to find another way to 'cripple' the low-end edition...or at least say, "We
will consider this request."

--Chipp




From jamesjrichards at lineone.net  Fri Jul 18 10:02:01 2003
From: jamesjrichards at lineone.net (James Richards)
Date: Fri Jul 18 10:02:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307181159.HAA24885@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3DC80B.36F4%jamesjrichards@lineone.net>

on 18/7/03 14:51:14 +0200, malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill) wrote:

> IMHO a 30 days trial does only make sense if it counts the effective days of
> use, not the installation Date.

I agree wholeheartedly. Malte is describing the kind of user I am. My HC
dabbling in the past means that I *do* understand both the limitations and
the possibilities of the ten line limit. On the new system I would only try
Rev when I knew I had got a month to spare (!). I'd be discouraged from
trying/buying Rev by a vicious combination of my time and finance budgets. I
have other full time employment than programming, but I have a couple of
ideas for some small utilities in my own field (minister of religion) which
would need to be cross platform to be worth putting energy into. They would
be unlikely to generate any significant income.

I agree with this too:
> IMHO a 30 days trial does only make sense if it counts the effective days of
> use, not the installation Date.

Regards

James
-- 
James J Richards

jamesjrichards at lineone.net

Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063 



From vikramsingh at mailandnews.com  Fri Jul 18 10:19:02 2003
From: vikramsingh at mailandnews.com (Vikram Singh)
Date: Fri Jul 18 10:19:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <3F2017F0@mailandnews.com>

So you are ready to live with a less than rapid adoption among the developers  
for a small issue. The first impression is the last impression, in many cases. 
Hope the price list doesnt confuse the movers and shakers of the IT world 
(who's word we all hope will help create new markets for Rev).

It is like going to buy a new sony music system and the store keeper offering 
a 80% discount to permanently stamp his shop's address on the body front. Had 
the price been around 20% less than Studio's price, say, it would have made 
sense to me. Here is a company that is sure of its product, is offering a 
small discount for inserting a page. But such a huge price differential seems 
strange to me, if seen from the eyes of a newbie.

Why dont you revert to the old policy? Show confidence that the product will 
sell at a decent price. Name your price. It is a premium product. So say it. 
It is pretty jazzed up now. And for the 'hobbyist' she/he always has the 
option of the free version. Do 75 dollars 'hobbyists' exist, maybe somewhere. 
Eliminate this option altogether, IMHO. Or eliminate the screen. Or raise the 
price, closer to the Studio price.

Regards

Vikram

>===== Original Message From Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com> =====
>Anyone who doesn't want the exit screen has merely to purchase the
>Studio or Enterprise license, neither of which includes it.
>
>The exit screen is part of the bargain when you get Revolution for
>(currently) $75.
>
>On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 05:32  AM, Vikram Singh wrote:
>
>> What is rev's target market? If Rev is smart, the should be also
>> targeting the
>> open-source types (the really swift ones causing Corporations to lose
>> their
>> sleep). I'll bet my friends in this arena will puke (okay going too
>> far... but
>> you get the idea) if told that apps built by them shall be carrying a
>> colorful
>> parting screen. They want to keep the *Corporation* far far away from
>> their
>> end users. Its just the way their minds are hardwired, maybe.
>>
>> Okay look another way, if you want to target web developers, when was
>> the last
>> time even MS told them to put 'This Active Server Page created on blah
>> blah..
>> Copyright MS' line in their code. It doesnt happen this way in the web
>> services world. There are just useful pages generated by different
>> programs.
>> And optional credits given by smitten developers to the application
>> powering
>> the service.
>>
>> In the coming 6 months, I'd rather see a few articles on Rev in a few
>> top
>> notch websites/magazines that will get new users downloading Rev
>> (along with
>> free professional grade applications on that site) than 10,000 apps
>> carrying
>> colorful logos (and thereby *hoping* to get new users for rev). How
>> many of us
>> remember the last popup ad we ever took seriously. As far as an end
>> user is
>> concerned a popup ad = a parting screen.
>
>regards,
>
>Geoff Canyon
>gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From themacguy at macosx.com  Fri Jul 18 10:38:00 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Fri Jul 18 10:38:00 2003
Subject: "splash" screen
In-Reply-To: <200307180509.BAA32131@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D3B13031-B934-11D7-9558-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Sh-tcan the splash screen. No matter when or where it appears, it's 
intrusive.

Of course, if RR wants to PAY ME a product placement fee for each copy 
of MY program I distribute, that is another matter. I think 10% of my 
product's selling price (per copy) is fair.

Barry

On Thursday, Jul 17, 2003, at 23:09 America/Denver, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Agreed, perhaps a democratic show of hands can convince RR to 
> reconsider the
> splash screen.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Jul 18 11:04:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri Jul 18 11:04:01 2003
Subject: What Gives?
In-Reply-To: <0BDC02F9-B8E6-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <0BDC02F9-B8E6-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <3F1818C6.6010209@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/18/03 1:07 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 09:21  PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>> On 7/16/03 5:32 PM, Simtech Publications wrote:
>>
>>> I'm finding that I can't use any keyboard shortcuts at all.
>>
>>
>> I just saw this over at MacFixit -- could this be the problem?
> 
> 
> Jacque, if this turns out to be the answer, I think you've just sewn up 
> a bottle of whiskey for next year's list helper ;-)

Good deal, that would be nice. I'd like the bottle to have a tag "Made 
with Rev" on it though. :)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jeanne at runrev.com  Fri Jul 18 11:23:00 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri Jul 18 11:23:00 2003
Subject: main Stacks and substacks
In-Reply-To: <1f0.d6c2b78.2c49530e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v03130304bb3dae1dac82@[10.0.1.7]>

At 6:41 AM -0700 7/18/03, Revinfo1155 at aol.com wrote:
>1. How many substacks can a main stack have?

As many as it wants. (There is no hard limit on the number, although if you
have very large number of substacks and the file grows large you may run
into memory issues.)


> 2. Can a mainstack with substacks be placed into another mainstack with
>substacks? Or can one just place mainstacks which become substacks of
>another mainstack?

A stack file can have only one main stack, so if you move a main stack to
another file, it becomes a substack - there's no nesting of multiple main
stacks.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Fri Jul 18 11:24:48 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri Jul 18 11:24:48 2003
Subject: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR
In-Reply-To: <B1C0C886-B8BE-11D7-9117-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <v03130308bb3dc02cd303@[10.0.1.7]>

There is a general distinction here to be made, between character
formatting and paragraph formatting.

Character formatting - font, size, style, and color changes that may be
applied to any part of a line or lines - is well-supported in Rev using
either HTML and RTF formats.

Paragraph formatting - alignment of individual paragraphs, header levels,
list formats, and so on - is not. This is not so much because of lack of
support in the RTFText and HTMLText properties, per se, as because fields
don't support these things (at least not yet). A field is more like a
SimpleText window than like a Word window, in terms of the formatting
options it supports: you can do character formatting, but although you can
set alignment, tab stops, and margins field-wide, you can't set them for
individual paragraphs.

I don't suppose this observation really helps, in terms of getting the
formatting you want to import from Word, but it may help clarify why some
things are supported and others aren't, and help you predict what
formatting will and won't transfer.

I know that some of these paragraph formatting options for fields have been
feature requested - because *I've* requested them ;-) - and I anticipate
that if and when they're added to fields, the RTFText property will also be
updated to support them.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 18 11:33:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 18 11:33:01 2003
Subject: translated to the local format at runtime [Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing]
In-Reply-To: <C264D37C-B92C-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <883B7A24-B93C-11D7-92BD-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 08:33  AM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
>
> Yes. Well. Erm... I never said the bytes were in the same _order_, 
> just that they were the same. ;-)
>
> In reality, for most apps this has no consequence. Functionality 
> should be identical. The translation happens transparently, and except 
> in the case of _large_ quantities of text is extremely fast. Anyone 
> have a benchmark?

My project builds a single-file executable approx 5-6 MB in size, which 
includes 17 substacks and about 120 cards. The automatic 
isotomac()/mactoiso() text conversion by RR is very fast.

AFAIK what is being the converted is not scripts or custom properties, 
only the text on buttons and fields on the cards of the app.

I haven't got any actual benchmarks, but my feeling is that when you 
factor in varying CPU speeds, and disk caching, it becomes a non-issue. 
By disk caching I mean the initial launches take ~ 2-3 seconds on my 
mapp. Then after the first launch of the app, subsequent launches take 
< 1 second. Whatever the time it takes to do the text translations, 
it's not subjectively noticeable. It's less time than the initial 
reading of the app from disk.

But technically speaking yes this is one difference between builds in 
Mac and builds on Windows. ;-)

BTW do Unix RR engines use the same text encoding as the Windows RR 
engine does?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 11:35:02 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 11:35:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307170137.h6H1b8iY015728@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <716C7A71-B93C-11D7-B4D2-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Thursday, Jul 17, 2003, at 03:37 Europe/Vienna, Howard Bornstein 
wrote:

> Call me silly, but I always hoped we'd here about this stuff first
> on this list, rather than seeing it on the web site.
Its imho NOT silly...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 11:52:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 11:52:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing (The novel)
In-Reply-To: <a05111b01bb3d9ddfe664@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <FA6CC9F0-B93E-11D7-B4D2-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 16:35 Europe/Vienna, curry wrote:

> -- I hope that *illustrates* some of the points that have been made. 
> :-) --

ILLUSTRATES PERFECTLY!!!!

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From edgore at shinra.com  Fri Jul 18 11:54:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Fri Jul 18 11:54:00 2003
Subject: Undocumented Engine Differences [Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing]
Message-ID: <200307181646.h6IGk1P71045@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Another issue is that there are undocumented differences between the engines, meaning that if you cannot test on the platform you are going to deliver on, things will end up breaking.

The proiject I am working on right now has an example - You can't disable items in a pop-up menu under Windows. Works perfectly on Mac and unix - in fact, it even works on windows if you change the Look and Feel to Mac or Mosaic, but not under the Windows Look and Feel.

This particular item is not documented, and would have caused my program's import feature to become completely non-functional if I had developed it on the Mac or Linux and just made a Windows standalone and distributed it. 

In reality I was developing on Windows, and ran into this, so I was able to create a work around. But the point is that issues like this do exist, and they affect the ability to "Deliver on all supported platforms".

I'm not trying to convince you to make Studio allow development on all platforms - I'm just saying that you might want to be very careful when you  say that it can deliver on them all.


From swartart at iafrica.com  Fri Jul 18 12:10:00 2003
From: swartart at iafrica.com (Ryno Swart)
Date: Fri Jul 18 12:10:00 2003
Subject: me - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <200307180548.BAA04215@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5C9478F4-B942-11D7-8621-003065D180EE@iafrica.com>

> What has stopped me dead in my tracks is that I can't seem to learn the
> program. As a newcomer, I can tell you that the online help system
> stinks - not enough examples, not enough detail in the
> vocabulary/syntax areas, and a vaporware manual. Try finding how to use
> the debug feature of the program. This may sound silly to you
> experienced folks, but I'm an intelligent and capable learner, really
> working to learn the product, and it's a quagmire.

That took a bit of guts, John. I find myself in the same position, well 
not age-wise... Just short of 60, I have been teaching myself 
Javascript (still learning), and Photoshop and Illustrator, and now the 
viola, and I see myself as perfectly intelligent, but there are some 
things I just cannot get to work. The list is brilliant, but it is a 
bit intimidating to ask really ground level questions, and particularly 
to ask them over and over until you get some darn thing not just to 
work, but to sing. I'm hoping revSchool might help in encouraging lots 
of questions, otherwise maybe some kind of list for smart dunces.

Ryno.
http://artistvision.org



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 12:26:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 12:26:01 2003
Subject: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR
In-Reply-To: <8BF481F4-B92E-11D7-9117-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <B6BB9816-B943-11D7-B4D2-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 16:45 Europe/Vienna, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I don't quite know what you mean abou tsetting the textfield to RTF 
> *before* you paste the text. Do you "set the rtfText of field 1 to 
> 'a'" or some such thing? I think the rtfText of a field can only be 
> set by supplying it with a string (which is generally something read 
> from a file, I think). Or am I missing something?
>
I
I do it with this script in the Message Box (hehe, its the first time a 
used that "animal")
How and why this exactly works I dont know, maybe one of the scripting 
Gurus can help out...
Here is the great posting from Vikram, with which I learned to do that.
----
RTF vs HTML
Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com

I can't talk of the benefits of exporting rtf as files, but if you are
copy-pasting from other apps this may interest you:

Copy a portion of a webpage. In the message box type:
set the rtftext of fld 1 to clipboarddata["rtf"]

And viceversa, paste into Word after copying the rtftext of a field:
set the clipboarddata["rtf"] to the rtftext of fld 1

etc..

Rgds,
Vikram
-----

copy the rtf (exported) text (from any fileformat you have) to the 
clipboard
select any textfield in rev
-- to the message box: 
set the rtftext of fld 1 to clipboarddata["rtf"]
Enter
And the formated text is in the textfield

Select "basic properties" in the property palette if it is open
after pasting you can select "contents" to make some fine tuning...)
dont select content before pasting, that does not work here...
means all is in the textfield, but does not appear in the content of 
the palette
Why?? -- One of this thousand rev miracles..?

Hope that helps, if not pls tell me.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Jul 18 12:29:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri Jul 18 12:29:00 2003
Subject: you - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <5C9478F4-B942-11D7-8621-003065D180EE@iafrica.com>
Message-ID: <4BED1049-B944-11D7-820F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Ryno,

>> What has stopped me dead in my tracks is that I can't seem to learn 
>> the
>> program. As a newcomer, I can tell you that the online help system
>> stinks - not enough examples, not enough detail in the
>> vocabulary/syntax areas, and a vaporware manual. Try finding how to 
>> use
>> the debug feature of the program. This may sound silly to you
>> experienced folks, but I'm an intelligent and capable learner, really
>> working to learn the product, and it's a quagmire.
>
> That took a bit of guts, John. I find myself in the same position, 
> well not age-wise...
> Just short of 60, I have been teaching myself Javascript (still 
> learning), and Photoshop
> and Illustrator, and now the viola, and I see myself as perfectly 
> intelligent,

coool, keep on learning, it will keep you alive :-)

> but there are some things I just cannot get to work. The list is 
> brilliant, but it is
> a bit intimidating to ask really ground level questions, and 
> particularly to ask

I cannot but to encourage you to ask, ask, ask this list as much and as 
basic
questions as they appear...

Noone will point with the finger towards you and if someone does, i'd 
love to
show him/her my complete collection of baseball bats :-D

(Hey, its just me, "jokeordie"-"47 and completely selftaught"-Klaus :-D)

> them over and over until you get some darn thing not just to work, but 
> to sing.

I even offer you to write me offlist (like many others did before, 
maybe because
of the same reasons and everytime we MADE their work sing :-) and i 
will love
to helps you out or try to explain some (hard to understand) basics.

> I'm hoping revSchool might help in encouraging lots of questions, 
> otherwise
> maybe some kind of list for smart dunces.

Here is a new revboard wher you can join and get help:

http://www.esashi.org/yabb/YaBB.pl

> Ryno.
> http://artistvision.org

Hope that helps.


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 12:35:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 12:35:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <3F2017F0@mailandnews.com>
Message-ID: <FFAED831-B944-11D7-B4D2-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 17:08 Europe/Vienna, Vikram Singh wrote:

> Why dont you revert to the old policy? Show confidence that the 
> product will
> sell at a decent price. Name your price. It is a premium product. So 
> say it.
> It is pretty jazzed up now. And for the 'hobbyist' she/he always has 
> the
> option of the free version. Do 75 dollars 'hobbyists' exist, maybe 
> somewhere.
> Eliminate this option altogether, IMHO. Or eliminate the screen. Or 
> raise the
> price, closer to the Studio price.
>

> Regards
>
> Vikram
>
> ===== Original Message From Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com> 
> =====
> Anyone who doesn't want the exit screen has merely to purchase the
> Studio or Enterprise license, neither of which includes it.
>
> The exit screen is part of the bargain when you get Revolution for
> (currently) $75.

Agree with Vikram!!

Geoff, dont forget that this $75 bargain is over before the the 30 day 
trial period. And then you have to pay the full price for watching the 
Sony Logo all the time...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Jul 18 12:51:03 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri Jul 18 12:51:03 2003
Subject: you - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <4BED1049-B944-11D7-820F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <5875EE62-B947-11D7-820F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi all,

i forgot to mention another very valuabel resource:

http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/

Click on "MetaClass".

Just replace "MetaCard" with "Revolution" and there you go...

Very good explanation of some very essential things...

Helped ME a lot :-)

Have a nice weekend.


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



P.S.
I also vote for the "StarterKit"!!!
This was the best thing ever!!!

I even created a (not too ;-) commercial windows cd-rom with it soon 
after the first
win-version was available...
No shit!!!

And with the money i got for that job i bought my first MetaCard 
pro-license.

Right after that i could create a more elaborate cd-rom, crossplatform 
mac/win...

So where would i be without the StarterKit?
(Please don't answer that ;-)



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 12:58:03 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 12:58:03 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <BB3CD0F0.1D84%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BB3D817F.30E8B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Ken Norris wrote:

> I recently looked over a really cool SuperCard project from Fourth World
> called "peeker" that demos using a graphic to magnify whatever is under it
> in the window.
> 
> Is that thing yours, Richard?

Not mine.  As much as I've enjoyed SC over the years, my work these days is
so committed to multi-platform deployment that I rarely get a chance to use
SC anymore.

> Anyway, I'd like to implement something like it in Rev.
> 
> Any ideas...?

What does it do?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 18 13:22:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 18 13:22:01 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <BB3CD0F0.1D84%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <B145C0A2-B94B-11D7-863C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 08:17 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

>  I recently looked over a really cool SuperCard project from Fourth 
> World
> called "peeker" that demos using a graphic to magnify whatever is 
> under it
> in the window.

> Anyway, I'd like to implement something like it in Rev.

I've made some crude things for looking closely at part of a stack, but 
that part has to be visible.  I don't know how to do that with a 
magnifying glass in front, but if you are willing for the magnification 
to be someplace else, then I'd use snapshot.

Dar Scott



From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Fri Jul 18 13:25:01 2003
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Fri Jul 18 13:25:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <FFAED831-B944-11D7-B4D2-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <151978EA-B94C-11D7-9B41-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

My problem with crediting a particular authoring tool/language is that 
it gives your clients the feeling that they are relying on two 
companies instead of the one they contracted to do a job.  If you are 
doing contract work, closing credits to another company will ruin a job 
opportunity.  The solution is that those people who are developing 
projects for pay should be able to afford the enterprise solution.  
This credit problem does not exist with the enterprise solution.

The software business offers many advantages to other forms of 
business.  We can have a store front (web site) for a lot less than 
conventional stores.  We can work at home and not have the expense of a 
leased building.  We can work on older computers till we can buy 
better.  We can buy a totally cross-platform development tool that 
allows a single person to compete against a team of 5 proficient C or 
Java programmers.  We can do a lot for a start-up, with minimal capital.

Those who are just trying to break into this business are going to get 
the cheapest version of Rev they can afford.  If they ever expect to 
get out of this vicious circle, they really need to buy the enterprise 
solution.  They will have to bite the bullet and put their small 
capital investment in that solution.  To me, it is the only solution 
Rev offers (with its new structure).  To put it bluntly, if you plan on 
making money, you *must* buy the enterprise solution.  Single platform 
development will not cut it.  Buying two cheaper solutions is not a 
complete solution.

The real question is:  What markets is RunRev targeting?  We have and 
always have had a pro solution.  I think RunRev is really trying to 
find its way with small businesses (if there is such a thing regarding 
this type of product) and hobbyists.  My thinking is that if you plan 
on making money, pay the extra few hundred and get enterprised.  If the 
extra 500 bucks or whatever is going to stop you from starting your 
business, you are already dead in the water.  The price of the 
enterprise version is so cheap for what you get.  Other businesses 
normally require you to invests tens if not hundreds of thousands to 
get started.  The only other business that would be cheaper to begin 
with is a lemonade stand.

At this point, I only see two clear markets.  People making money at 
developing and people doing it for every other reason.  I think rev 
should toss out the Studio version and meet the two markets that are 
easily identifiable.

Market #1
Self employed:  buy enterprise
Working day to day for a company that uses your development skills:  
Company buys enterprise for you to use
Software start-ups: buy enterprise

Market #2
Individual contemplating software development: get demo or buy express 
version.  They know the limitations and will live by them.  When they 
are sure they want to do this, they buy enterprise solution.
Individual programming for fun or home use:  buy express solution.  
Closing screen will not kill them for the price they paid.

If you disagree or think I have missed a market, I would love to hear 
about it.


Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 18 13:32:01 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Fri Jul 18 13:32:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
References: <200307180509.BAA32122@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F183B30.5080700@pacbell.net>

From: David Kwinter <david at kwinter.ca>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> 
> 
>>So, what can we expect *others* to think when they see the "Made with
>>Revolution" logo on 'newbie' type projects? That all Rev projects are like
>>this, and of the same caliber???
> 
> 
> Agreed, perhaps a democratic show of hands can convince RR to reconsider the
> splash screen.
> 
> I'll be #2


I vote for NO Rev logo. The poor "apps" can really hurt the revolution.

When we ran MaxStax, 98% of the submitted stacks were terrible. Newbies 
who'd never even heard of Apple's GUI guidelines butchered the UI: "I 
like using radio buttons instead of the standard buttons because they 
are smaller..." was a typical reply.



Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Jul 18 13:35:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri Jul 18 13:35:00 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <BB3D817F.30E8B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BB3D8A51.DB2C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

>> I recently looked over a really cool SuperCard project from Fourth World
>> called "peeker" that demos using a graphic to magnify whatever is under it
>> in the window.

If I understand what you're looking for, the easiest way would probably be
to take a snapshot of the current card and enlarge the resulting image.

You can take a look at our Camouflage demo stack which does this for the
screen, rather than a card:

   go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"

Launch the Camouflage stack and then click the Magnify button...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From jhurley at infostations.com  Fri Jul 18 14:06:03 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Fri Jul 18 14:06:03 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307181601.MAA07391@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307181601.MAA07391@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb3ded801689@[66.81.139.89]>

Possible compromise position.

Employ "Made with revolution" as the quit screen by mutual consent.

If Run Rev felt the product was of sufficient quality that it would 
do them proud, they would give their consent.

If the developer was pleased with the company he or she would be 
keeping (i.e. others who have been blessed with Run Rev GPS--good 
programing seal), he or she would give his or her consent.

Jim

Spelling by Eudora, compromise by Jim


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Jul 18 14:25:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Jul 18 14:25:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <20030718133702.4143.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <62D23248-B954-11D7-B4D2-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 15:36 Europe/Vienna, miscdas at boxfrog.com 
wrote:
>

> Wolfgang, let me add that I belong to other MM authoring lists, and 
> the biggest single complaint by the "designers" is that they DON"T 
> want to write code, scripts whatever; they want drag-and-drop or 
> click-and-place objects, and then "script helpers" that list commands 
> and functions that a selected object supports along with an example of 
> the syntax in HUMAN UNDERSTANDABLE (as opposed to programmer 
> understable) terms.
Right, like me, thats why we had some time ago the thread of an iShell 
UI with the MC engine. I have this kind of UI for rev still in Mind...

>  Rev certainly doesn't have that, and from John's post (subject: "Me 
> the potenital buyer"), documentation that is geared to programmers and 
> leaves out others is a huge barrier to overcome, resulting in many 
> giving up early in the game. This is complaint number 2 by the > newbies.
I would have given up also, because rev caused me headache and stomach 
pain...;(

>> If this new more complicated license/pricing system which is the 
>> right way to do that...?
> The new licensing does nothing to rectify the documentation needed to 
> address the  "non-programmer newbie that really COULD eventially be a 
> paying customer if only there were coherent, concise newbie-friendly 
> docs and tutorials".
right, Sara.., also Jaqueline made a very good documentation...

But how could I get all this (old antiquarian books here in Austria) 
And there is another problem. Rev authoring is only a part of my new 
way of learning with trainingsmaps?. I cant waste all my time in 
learning the authoring tool. There are a lot of other tools I need, to 
do the maps. Therefore I m looking for a faster understandable tool.
I see all that from a brainfriendly point of view. We all have 2 parts 
(hopefully) which have different functions. Scripters are very, very 
left (digital, sequenciel, read before, do later, details...) Designers 
are right (creativ, associative try and error, overwiev...)

> "...I assume you have done the tutorials
dont assume that=;) I have it here, but was not able to read much of 
it. A few parts, but...

>  that come with Revolution and if you have Rev 2.0, you will see the 
> new Cookbook section which has quite a lot of example scripts.
Hmmm , but maybe that sounds ridiculous to you, but most of the 
instructions are still - yes its better now than before - but still 
difficult to understand. Why this kind of (maybe Klaus can help me here 
with the translation) Scripter terminin, which is clear for every 
Scripter, is very confusing for a right brainer like me - or a newbie. 
This: put my Variable into your array... Must that be called "myVar" or 
is that an example? Do I need to use exactly that word. It would be 
much easyier to see a real script - plus explication and not this 
theoretical (fits for all) instructions.
So, I think, the market for rev with its actual scripting UI is limited 
to mostly scripters only.
Hence I have great hope in Dans books, because this is the first text I 
have seen, which eliminates exactly this termini. So, for me everything 
was much better understandable at only a fast(first) view...

>  There are also numerous stacks available at the User Contributions 
> section of the RunRev website and other places - all of which can be 
> taken apart, examined, changed, tested etc so you can work out what is 
> going on."  ('Well', despairs Newbie, 'I wish I knew something about 
> how to "take apart and examine scripts".
I, as a right brain thinking person, needed about 2 years to understand 
a bit of rev. 2 years to use the message box first time. 2 years mostly 
struggling with unusual behaviour, crashes and problems. Maybe I m an 
idiot, but why did I do my site (140 pages), which is bigger than my 
rev program (80 cards/6 stacks) in freeway without coding html in 4 
weeks. Why I have understood OmniGraffle in about a day. Is it really 
"my" stupid brain, that I dont understand rev..? I struggled monthes to 
finish my rev (prototyp) programm. Look at me as this kind of newbie 
rev is targeting...

> But since I have barely even started, and can't find a good book for 
> beginners, and have to go from site-to-site to find examples, and 
> couldn't find any instructions about taking apart scripts in the 
> dictionary, (maybe it's there, but I can't find it) I guess this 
> Revolution thing just isn't for me. I must be really stupid--or maybe 
> you "programmers" are all geniuses!')
> And so departs another frustrated Newbie, once hopeful of authoring 
> some "cool apps", now fallen back into the trenches of despair.
I felt like this since the beginning, and still feeling very often like 
a frustrated newbie...
And thats why I m still thinking a rev engine with a modular freeway, 
OmniGraffle, iShell, Mellel - eZedia UI could be the real killer app, 
as I described it (modular UI) in one of my last posts. A developing 
tool tool for the rest of us...

And last but not least: developing on one platform and deploying to any 
other platform. That the biggest point of it. And thats why I m still 
here. And exactly that point RR is killing now...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 18 14:37:07 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Fri Jul 18 14:37:07 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
References: <200307180834.EAA14370@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F184A80.4060109@pacbell.net>

From: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com>


> There seem to be three arguments against the Express closing screen:
> <snip>> What Revolution needs now is awareness. Anything that promotes that is 
> good. Anything that hinders that is bad.
> 
> Disclaimer: the above is speculation.
> 

Geoff, I couldn't disagree more strongly.

We, the designers and programmers, ARE the end-users of Rev, not our 
potential customers. The taste of a bad GUI of any programming tool can 
last a lifetime. Do you remember CPX? If you didn't get a headache doing 
a simple "hello world", you ended up in a straight jacket. How about 
that loverly "deBabbelizer"? My stomach tied in knots at the thought of 
booting it... Programmers and designers are two different breeds. What 
made most Apple Apps superior to PC Apps was the attention to the small 
details outlined in Apple (and probably Adobe) GUI.

When I first saw Rev 1.0, I was really turned off by the lack of user 
interface design (EX: madly resizing info windows; fonts that made 
German Script look positively readable; lines going every which way!). 
And this from folks who "knew" the Apple GUI. It hurt to use it.

I deleted it after three or four tries. I switched from WindowScript 
(HC) to MetaCard. The MC GUI was no great shakes, but it didn't get in 
my way. Scott Raney is the Superman of programmers, but UI is not his 
strongest suit.

This "awareness" boost is not the same as saying "any publicity is good 
publicity as long as they spell my name correctly". Bad publicity from 
poorly designed/programmed apps from Rev will have an adverse effect on 
the company. Smeared reputations by word-of-mouth programmers are very 
hard to cleanup. Look at HC and Director and CPX. If Rev is to grow, 
adding forced splash screens in not the way to do it. I know I wouldn't 
use it under those circumstances.

by the way, how many of you know about Apple GUI guidelines?


Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 18 14:44:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 18 14:44:01 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <B145C0A2-B94B-11D7-863C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <317DCD6E-B957-11D7-B4D0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 12:14 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> I'd use snapshot.

I forgot to mention.  The rectangle is correct in the example but the 
values are scrambled in the TD.  If you get a picture of the wrong part 
of the screen, that may be the trouble.

Dar



From steve at messimercomputing.com  Fri Jul 18 15:57:00 2003
From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Stephen Messimer)
Date: Fri Jul 18 15:57:00 2003
Subject: new users
In-Reply-To: <200307181828.OAA14833@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6B1F83C0-B961-11D7-BE1A-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>

Ryno and John,

Well guys welcome to the list.  There are a lot of us older types here. 
  While I am not quite as "advanced" as you, I am getting up there as 
well.
(55).  :-)

I have been around on the list for some time now.  I have always gotten 
great advice from others here and have asked my share of boneheaded 
questions.  In every case the listas have been both understanding and 
very generous with their remarks and advice.

Don't be concerned about the fact that there are some really brilliant 
programmers lurking around here.  They have been up the same path.  
They just walked it before you.  The interesting thing about most of 
them is that they are more than happy to help you with pretty much any 
question you may have.

While I don't place myself in that august group I would be more than 
happy to help you in any way I can.

Ask away!

Regards,

Steve

Stephen R. Messimer, PA
208 1st Ave. South	
Escanaba, MI 49829
www.messimercomputing.com
--
Macintosh G-4 OSX 10.2.6, OS 9.2.2, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.0.1

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 02:28 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> That took a bit of guts, John. I find myself in the same position, well
> not age-wise... Just short of 60, I have been teaching myself
> Javascript (still learning), and Photoshop and Illustrator, and now the
> viola, and I see myself as perfectly intelligent, but there are some
> things I just cannot get to work. The list is brilliant, but it is a
> bit intimidating to ask really ground level questions, and particularly
> to ask them over and over until you get some darn thing not just to
> work, but to sing. I'm hoping revSchool might help in encouraging lots
> of questions, otherwise maybe some kind of list for smart dunces.
>




From edgore at shinra.com  Fri Jul 18 16:23:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Fri Jul 18 16:23:00 2003
Subject: new users
Message-ID: <200307182115.h6ILFeN59233@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Newbies,

I can't agree enough. I've found the list to be a very welcoming place (just don't include anyone's email in a response...). Though I do have lots of previous Hyper & Supercard experience, Revolution is still very new to me and I have found the people on the list to be very helpful, though their level of knowledge and experiance can be intimidating. My advice is just jump in and ask questions - don't worry about the level of the question you are asking. In fact, I love it when somebody asks an easy, beginner type question - those are the kind I can help out with!

Edwin Gore

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Stephen Messimer
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:50:09
>
>Ryno and John,
>
>Well guys welcome to the list.  There are a lot of
>us older types here. 
>  While I am not quite as "advanced" as you, I am
>getting up there as 
>well.
>(55).	:-)
>
>I have been around on the list for some time now. 
>I have always gotten 
>great advice from others here and have asked my
>share of boneheaded 
>questions.  In every case the listas have been both
>understanding and 
>very generous with their remarks and advice.
>
>Don't be concerned about the fact that there are
>some really brilliant 
>programmers lurking around here.  They have been up
>the same path.  
>They just walked it before you.  The interesting
>thing about most of 
>them is that they are more than happy to help you
>with pretty much any 
>question you may have.


From kkaufman at snet.net  Fri Jul 18 16:32:03 2003
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Fri Jul 18 16:32:03 2003
Subject: splitting binary file into chunks
Message-ID: <56385EB0-B966-11D7-9C1D-0003936D1F12@snet.net>

Does anyone have a suggestion as to the most efficient way to:
(1) Open a binary file (generally less than 100KB in size)

(2) look for specific byte-sequences in that file (using offset? -or is 
that just for text?)

(3) split the data into sections based on location of the 
byte-sequences in (2)

(4) decode the sections determined in (3) and place the (now text) data 
into fields

Perhaps the decoding should be done at the outset (i.e. before (2)).

Thank you,
Kurt



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 16:36:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Fri Jul 18 16:36:01 2003
Subject: you - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <4BED1049-B944-11D7-820F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20030718212902.88077.qmail@web20007.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

> I cannot but to encourage you to ask, ask, ask
> this list as much and as 
> basic questions as they appear...
> 
> Noone will point with the finger towards you
> and if someone does, ... baseball bats.
> 
> http://www.esashi.org/yabb/YaBB.pl

some "heavy hitters" have stepped up to
the plate on this newbie list.

as far as use-revolution at lists.runrev.com,
the list is very supportive of new people.

> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de

Major Klaus,

i have several URL's for your name.
is there a preferred one for RunRev purposes?




=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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From curry at pair.com  Fri Jul 18 16:41:01 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Fri Jul 18 16:41:01 2003
Subject: me - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <200307180548.BAA04215@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307180548.BAA04215@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb3e14f55244@[68.86.46.40]>

>What has stopped me dead in my tracks is that I can't seem to learn the
>program. As a newcomer, I can tell you that the online help system
>stinks - not enough examples, not enough detail in the
>vocabulary/syntax areas, and a vaporware manual. Try finding how to use
>the debug feature of the program. This may sound silly to you
>experienced folks, but I'm an intelligent and capable learner, really
>working to learn the product, and it's a quagmire.

I'm not sure how much this will help, but here's a mix of what I did 
when I was new to Rev, and what I additional I would suggest now:

First, look through the Development Guide: About section of Help and 
read them through as you would a book chapter, also clicking on 
Transcript terms you want to know more about.

Then try the Recipes--a new feature which gives examples that I think 
will be really useful. Then you can see practically how some terms 
are used.

Finally, when you look up a Transcript term (the one you are looking 
for or another when you are still trying to find what you are looking 
for) always check what's in the See Also menu. That's what proved the 
most useful of all for me, even more than the development guide, to 
learn more of the language. You can also go through the Dictionary 
alphabetically sometimes and look for things that you still don't 
know and look useful--I did that now and then too.

Hope that helps,

Curry


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 16:47:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Fri Jul 18 16:47:00 2003
Subject: splitting binary file into chunks
In-Reply-To: <56385EB0-B966-11D7-9C1D-0003936D1F12@snet.net>
Message-ID: <20030718213953.36626.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kurt Kaufman <kkaufman at snet.net> wrote:
> Does anyone have a suggestion as to the most
> efficient way to:
> (1) Open a binary file (generally less than
> 100KB in size)
> 
> (2) look for specific byte-sequences in that
> file (using offset? -or is 
> that just for text?)
> 
> (3) split the data into sections based on
> location of the 
> byte-sequences in (2)
> 
> (4) decode the sections determined in (3) and
> place the (now text) data 
> into fields
> 
> Perhaps the decoding should be done at the
> outset (i.e. before (2)).

this "sounds" like a MIDI file.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 18 16:51:03 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 18 16:51:03 2003
Subject: splitting binary file into chunks
In-Reply-To: <56385EB0-B966-11D7-9C1D-0003936D1F12@snet.net>
Message-ID: <FF47B196-B968-11D7-B4D0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 03:25 PM, Kurt Kaufman wrote:

> (1) Open a binary file (generally less than 100KB in size)

put URL "binfile:myfile" into binaryData

> (2) look for specific byte-sequences in that file (using offset? -or  
> is that just for text?)

matchChunk()

I think you can use regex and offset on arbitrary stings.  Test for  
null problems.

> (3) split the data into sections based on location of the  
> byte-sequences in (2)

put char startChar to endChar into ...

> (4) decode the sections determined in (3) and place the (now text)  
> data into fields

binaryDecode()

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From themacguy at macosx.com  Fri Jul 18 17:23:00 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Fri Jul 18 17:23:00 2003
Subject: "Made with Rev" splash - for a "player", yes
Message-ID: <6A7D7A01-B96D-11D7-9CB2-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Essentially, I am already at the "Studio" level, I guess. The splash 
doesn't apply to my particular situation assuming I renew at the Studio 
level. However, I am still philisophically opposed to a splash "badge" 
appearing upon exiting a compiled app.

If RR wanted to distribute a "player" with which one could "run" an 
uncompiled, non-protected stack, I could argue on the side of placing a 
splash there. You could make small projects which could be examined by 
anyone (novice included). In this manner, RR's benefits could be seen 
by anyone who wanted to DL the player and whatever stacks are made 
available by anyone. Sort of "open source", so to speak, without giving 
away the crown jewels.

I am, however, extremely disappointed that I can't develop/compile any 
longer (apparently) on my PC as well as my Mac without spending an 
additional $400. Am I correct in assuming that whatever reg# I receive 
from RR will be platform specific?

Barry



From kkaufman at snet.net  Fri Jul 18 17:48:00 2003
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Fri Jul 18 17:48:00 2003
Subject: splitting binary file into chunks  
Message-ID: <F52957A0-B970-11D7-8BAF-0003936D1F12@snet.net>

Thanks, Dar.

I'm not familiar with "regex".  However, I originally figured "offset" 
would be particularly useful, as I have to search for each successive 
match from the point at which the last match was positioned in the file 
(now variable).  I can do this with offset's "charstoSkip" parameter, I 
think.  I hope offset can work with binary data, otherwise I guess it 
will have to be hex strings (my eyes glaze over at the thought).

-Kurt

PS/ Yes, it is MIDI data, Erik.



From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Fri Jul 18 17:56:01 2003
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Fri Jul 18 17:56:01 2003
Subject: me - the potential buyer
Message-ID: <20030718234844.knowledgeworks@Plus.Net>

>>
As a newcomer, I can tell you that the online help system 
stinks - not enough examples, not enough detail in the 
vocabulary/syntax areas, and a vaporware manual. Try finding how to use 
the debug feature of the program.
<<

John,

I agree with you about the debugger - it is hard to get your head round that at first.  But to state it quite bluntly - there are so many areas of IT that have less than adequate documentation, that I don't feel that Rev is by any means the worst offender.  I have looked at several other RAD tools in the past year, and they were all harder to grasp than Rev.

When I first started to use Rev last year I had no experience or knowledge of Hypercard.  I thought the tutorials in the online documentation were ok, but after doing them I felt that they had only begun as tutorials.  So, I bought Danny Goodman's books on Hypercard (which have always been well recommended), and the Winkler book on Hypertalk (Dan Winkler, Scott Kamins and Jeanne DeVoto).

After I finished both volumes of the Goodman book, I felt I had learnt a bit more.  And maybe it was useful to get my head oriented around the idea of stacks.  However, the Winkler book on Hypertalk is very good.  If you are serious about learning Transcript I cannot recommend that book too highly.  There is a lot of useful information in it.  Ok, it is not Rev-specific -- it can't teach you the IDE etc.  But 99% of what you learn about Hypertalk from that book you can carry over into Rev.  

If you live in the US then you can get a 2nd hand copy from Amazon for next to nothing... BUY IT, while you still can :-)  I'm glad I have a copy - I would often look at it if I'm puzzled by something and most of the time I didn't have to ask for help on the list.  If you have some familiarity with Hypercard, then the Goodman books may be a waste of time for you (I passed mine onto a friend who I introduced to Rev, and they did give her a bit more to work with).

And the Transcript dictionary is very complete, although you are right about the need for more examples, and more tutorials.  There is quite a gap between where the tutorials leave off and being able to find the right element in the dictionary.  BTW, do you know that you can search the documentation?

Also, you can search this list (and the metacard list).  So if you find a language element that you cannot figure out how to use properly, you can search the list for that term (or better, a phrase) and see if there is any discussion of it.  Here's the link: http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com
A search on "message box" brought up 706 hits; "custom prop" brought up 51 hits.

(I'm a bit embarrassed to admit I actually spent a lot of time reading the archived lists that go back a few years... There, I've admitted it...

When I have asked for help, I've found this list to have some extremely charming and knowledgable people on it.  It is really quite a cosy place....

Hope that helps,
Bernard  



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 18 18:03:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 18 18:03:00 2003
Subject: splitting binary file into chunks  
In-Reply-To: <F52957A0-B970-11D7-8BAF-0003936D1F12@snet.net>
Message-ID: <0AAE99A7-B973-11D7-B4D0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 04:41 PM, Kurt Kaufman wrote:

> I hope offset can work with binary data, otherwise I guess it will  
> have to be hex strings (my eyes glaze over at the thought).

I would be very surprised if it didn't.  Don't forget to numToChar() or  
otherwise make sure you have binary data that you are searching for.

And since this is midi, you can use charToNum() instead of  
binaryDecode().  Use bitAnd() to mask off bits.

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Jul 18 18:08:01 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Jul 18 18:08:01 2003
Subject: FW: Rev 2.02/New pricing/Currency - Dollars Sterling Euro Yen
Message-ID: <000101c34d80$5dbaed30$f600000a@porthos>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Rathbone [mailto:gary.rathbone at btconnect.com]
> Sent: 18 July 2003 23:57
> To: 'use-revolution at lists.runrev.com'
> Subject: RE: Rev 2.02/New pricing/Currency - Dollars Sterling Euro Yen
> 
> I'm not 'upgrading' yet...I'll 'upgrade' when I need to...depending on the
> new features available...and after the bug fixes...and when the global
> currency markets dictate :-)
> 
> Can we pleeeeeeeeease have options to pay in fixed prices and not have to
> translate US dollars according to current market trends?
> 
> It appears Rev users are highly and widely geographically diverse, and to
> find the purchase price from a Scottish company is solely based in USD is
> perhaps 'single minded', and not to everyone's taste.
> 
> Just my 2p.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
> Chartered Information Systems Practitioner
> Leeds, UK





From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Jul 18 18:40:01 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Jul 18 18:40:01 2003
Subject: Future Revolution Support...
Message-ID: <000201c34d84$d908f2d0$f600000a@porthos>

As Rev grows, and 'we' know we want a financially secure company behind our
development environment. (I've ridden the hypercard / Supercard
rollercoaster).then this will surely mean the user base will grow, perhaps
rapidly.

Many new user concerns/frustrations seem to concentrate on the lack of
documentation and learning materials, hence this list is the *primary*
source of support. Many new and 'old' users quite rightly praise this list
for the quality of information provided and the gifts that experienced Rev
developers provide. It seems this core of experienced Rev developers should
feature highly in RunRevs future plans.

Personally, it would provide huge 'peace of mind' regarding my investment in
Rev technology if these guru's were secured into RunRevs support program in
some announced 'formal' manner.

These experts have provided thankless support to thousands of wannabe's and
future Rev evangelists. Without them Rev wouldn't be what it is today, or
what it may become.

I'd support a pay-as-you-go guru list or other reliable service -
suggestions / comments ?.

Regards

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
Rev Wannabe !





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 18 18:49:04 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 18:49:04 2003
Subject: Future Revolution Support...
In-Reply-To: <000201c34d84$d908f2d0$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <BB3DD38A.30ECC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Gary Rathbone wrote:

> I'd support a pay-as-you-go guru list or other reliable service -
> suggestions / comments ?.

And I'd happily provide such a service with convenient online payment
options.

What sort of costs and commitments would do you think would be ideal?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 18:50:02 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Fri Jul 18 18:50:02 2003
Subject: Future Revolution Support...
In-Reply-To: <000201c34d84$d908f2d0$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <20030718234256.85294.qmail@web20009.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gary Rathbone <gary.rathbone at btclick.com>
wrote:
> I'd support a pay-as-you-go guru list or other
> reliable service -
> suggestions / comments ?.

sounds fair.

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Fri Jul 18 18:51:02 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Fri Jul 18 18:51:02 2003
Subject: Disappear script editors
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D4D@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

I am new to Revolution and am on Windows 2000.  When I switch from a Rev
script editor window or help window to the window of another application and
then return to Revolution, the window is always gone.  Can I adjust a
setting somewhere so that windows will stay put when I go in and out of
Revolution.  It is extremely annoying.

Mark Powell
Production Manager
VERITAS Education


From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Fri Jul 18 18:51:23 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Fri Jul 18 18:51:23 2003
Subject: Script Editor Menu Reference not clickable
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D4E@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

When I try to access the docs for the Script Editor Menu Reference, the the
cursor does not turn to browse over the links.  For example, the "File menu
(Script Editor)" type links are not clickable.  Any way of remedying this?
Thanks.

Mark Powell
Production Manager
VERITAS Education


From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Jul 18 19:37:01 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Jul 18 19:37:01 2003
Subject: Future Revolution Support...
In-Reply-To: <BB3DD38A.30ECC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <000301c34d8c$cd36d9b0$f600000a@porthos>

And one of the greatest guru's replies in record time...

Richard, 

To answer your question would be difficult. As ever, it depends. If I was
sat at a clients site and needed a 'quick' fix asap then it maybe near
priceless. However, messing around at home with a relatively minor annoyance
response time and cost would not be a factor.

As per my previous post Rev is now global. And I don't expect charity to
expand my development or financial prospects. 

A group support program of this kind would need careful thought and
planning...

Thanks

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS


> > I'd support a pay-as-you-go guru list or other reliable service -
> > suggestions / comments ?.
> 
> And I'd happily provide such a service with convenient online payment
> options.
> 
> What sort of costs and commitments would do you think would be ideal?
> 
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From edgore at shinra.com  Fri Jul 18 20:42:04 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Fri Jul 18 20:42:04 2003
Subject: ANN: Amazon Assistant
References: <000301c34d8c$cd36d9b0$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <000b01c34d95$ff227520$6701a8c0@ed>

Hey all,

After much work, and much sweat I have put out a beta version of Amazon
Assistant, a program I am working for use by members of Amazon's Associate
program. It's a desktop application that let's you create a database of
products that you want to offer either by manually typing data into the
database, entering partial information (ASIN, product name and a keyword, or
whatever), and click a button to retreive all the product details from
Amazon Web Services importing stuff exported from a database, or (thanks to
altBrowser) you can browse around Amazon and click "Add This Product", and
it will automatically add the product you are looking at to your catalog.

Overall, I think it's kind of cool.

It's very catalog/storefront oriented, but if any of you are members of the
Associate program I would appreciate any  feedback.

The beta (and all unregistered version) won't let you change the Associate
ID that is inserted (and the license agreement says that you won't change it
in the .html files it generate (yeah right)), but if you are willing to put
the effort into really testing it, I'll give you a freebie.

If you are interested, its at http://www.shinra.com/amazonassistant/

(And Heather...I'm upgrading to Studio from Educational next week...well
before this becomes commercial)

Edwin Gore



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 18 20:43:50 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 18 20:43:50 2003
Subject: building a font picker
Message-ID: <3EC5623E-B989-11D7-A8E1-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

I'm building a font picker using a list field and htmlText. I have a 
checkbox to filter out non-fixed width fonts. My function for deciding 
if a font is fixed width is

--
-- isFixedWidthFont()
--
function isFixedWidthFont pFontFaceName
   if pFontFaceName = empty then
     return "false"
   end if
   set the textFont of fld "fixedWidth1" to pFontFaceName
   set the textFont of fld "fixedWidth2" to pFontFaceName
   put the formattedWidth of fld "fixedWidth1" into twd1
   put the formattedWidth of fld "fixedWidth2" into twd2
   return (twd1 = twd2)
end isFixedWidthFont

fixedWidth1 has the lower-case alphabet and fixedWidth2 has the upper 
case alphabet.

1) Is there a way that's faster than this? If the user had lots of 
fonts on their system, it would take a bit to grind through them all.

2) On Mac OS X, this yields the list

#PC?? 12
Andale Mono 12
Courier 12
Courier CE 12
Courier New 12
Letter Gothic MT 12
Letter Gothic MT Bold 12
Letter Gothic MT Bold Oblique 12
Letter Gothic MT Oblique 12
Monaco 12
Monaco CE 12
Osaka?|???? 12
VT100 12

Now- Courier, Courier New, Monaco, Andale Mono, and VT100 all were 
expected. I wasn't expecting Letter Gothic, but it does appear to be 
fixed width.

But what are the "CE" fonts?

Letter Gothic seems strange also: it has it's available styles listed 
in the font names list (bold, obl, bold/obl).

3) The "CE" fonts as well as Letter Gothic fonts do not scale when I 
change the point size in the htmlText of the field. What is different 
about these fonts?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 18 20:57:03 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 18 20:57:03 2003
Subject: fonts in htmlText
Message-ID: <59D4FD44-B98B-11D7-A8E1-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Mac OS X 10.2.6/ Rev 2.0.1 I am putting all my fonts into htmlText, 
one font per paragraph. Mostly it looks great, but there are several 
fonts that are not rendering at all- they come through as Verdana or 
something. The problem ones are

American Typewriter
Andale Mono
Apple Chancery
Apple LiGothic
Apple LuSung
Big Caslon
Book Antiqua
Bookman Old Style
Brush Script MT
Century Gothic
Century Schoolbook
Comic Sans
Edwardian Script ITC
Fang Song
Gill Sans
Hoefler Text
Letter Gothic
Marker Felt
Monotype Sorts
New York
Trebuchet

Several other fonts have the correct face, but don't obey the size="" 
tag in htmlText.

Should I bug report all this?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 18 21:49:02 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 18 21:49:02 2003
Subject: building a font picker
In-Reply-To: <3EC5623E-B989-11D7-A8E1-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <A286BC56-B992-11D7-B4D0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 07:35 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> But what are the "CE" fonts?

Russian?  They may have alternate symbols for high coding.

Dar Scott




From bornstein at designeq.com  Fri Jul 18 22:10:03 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Fri Jul 18 22:10:03 2003
Subject: Script Editor Menu Reference not clickable
Message-ID: <200307190303.h6J332iY020201@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>

>When I try to access the docs for the Script Editor Menu Reference, the the
>cursor does not turn to browse over the links.  For example, the "File menu
>(Script Editor)" type links are not clickable. 

I concur. These links are not working.

Jeanne, this appears if you use the search plugin to do a search for 
"script editor". Among the results, the following two:

Script Editor Menu Reference
File menu (Script Editor)

do not link to anything.

Should I bugzilla this?

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From bornstein at designeq.com  Fri Jul 18 22:32:00 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Fri Jul 18 22:32:00 2003
Subject: building a font picker
Message-ID: <200307190325.h6J3P9iY010679@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>

>1) Is there a way that's faster than this? 

It might be a little faster to simply put "i" into field "fixedWidth1" 
and "Z" into fld "fixedWidth2" and compare them, rather than the entire 
alphabet.

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From bornstein at designeq.com  Fri Jul 18 23:34:03 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Fri Jul 18 23:34:03 2003
Subject: building a font picker
Message-ID: <200307190427.h6J4Qts4021732@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>

>1) Is there a way that's faster than this? If the user had lots of 
>fonts on their system, it would take a bit to grind through them all.

I set up a little test stack for this and used this script:

on mouseup
  put empty into fld "List"
  put the fontnames into fontlist
  put the ticks into t1
  lock screen
  repeat with i = 1 to number of lines in fontlist
    put line i of fontlist into fontName
    set the textFont of fld "F1" to fontName -- contains the letter "i"
    set the textFont of fld "F2" to fontName -- contains the letter "Z"
    put the formattedWidth of fld "F1" into fwd1
    put the formattedWidth of fld "F2" into fwd2
    if (fwd1 = fwd2) then put fontName &return after fld "List"
  end repeat

  put the ticks into t2
  put (t2-t1)/60&&"seconds"
end mouseup

On my system (iMac 500 Mz running OS 9.2.1 and Rev 2.01) it took .05 
seconds to generate a list of 18 monospaced fonts out of a font list of 
351 fonts. This is using my previous suggestion of comparing two letters 
rather than the entire alphabet.

The key to this speed, btw, is the lock screen command. You could 
probably get an additional significant increase on this by using the "for 
each" repeat structure. But it seems plenty fast even without this.

Regards,

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From curry at pair.com  Sat Jul 19 00:08:01 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Sat Jul 19 00:08:01 2003
Subject: me - the potential buyer (Documentation)
In-Reply-To: <200307182241.SAA25832@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307182241.SAA25832@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb3e7caa8c39@[68.86.46.40]>

For helpful snippets, besides the Cookbook, another thing that I 
guess has always been there is the How To--and a lot of these will be 
great for newcomers, and some of these are real gems for people 
already familiar with Rev too.

Today I saw the one for (Development Guide:Text and Data 
Processing:How To:) "How to shuffle the items or lines in a 
container." Have you seen it?

>sort items of myVar numeric by random(the number of items in myVar)

Brilliant! That is really amazing. A real work of art!

It's not exactly for new learners I guess, but that just shows the 
variety. How about this example of the many which are great for 
newbies:

"How to put text into a field"

>You use the put command to put text into a field. For example, to 
>put the text "Hello World" into a field named "My Field", use a 
>statement like the following (in a handler or in the message box):
>
>put "Hello World" into field "My Field"
>
>To put text at the beginning of a field without disturbing the 
>field's contents, use a statement like the following:
>
>put "text" before field "Field"
>
>To put the text at the end of the field, use a statement like the following:
>
>put "text" after field "Field"

Good stuff! So the How To is good just like the Cookbook.

Curry


From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sat Jul 19 00:13:00 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Sat Jul 19 00:13:00 2003
Subject: Disappear script editors
Message-ID: <200307190505.BAA08487@bright.unitz.ca>

go to the Preferences panel (under the Edit menu)..
go to "Script Editor" (the 5th item in the list on the left
side of the prefs)
check out the "when editing scripts:"


From curry at pair.com  Sat Jul 19 00:24:03 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Sat Jul 19 00:24:03 2003
Subject: Shuffle
In-Reply-To: <200307182241.SAA25832@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307182241.SAA25832@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b01bb3e80736f3a@[68.86.46.40]>

Great example in the How To about shuffling with a random sort! 
Amazing that's even possible. Revolution never fails to bring a sense 
of wonder to programming.

>sort items of myVar numeric \
>by random(the number of items in myVar)

But should we count the number of lines or items first?

Here's a test to perform in a button:

on mouseup
   --build a big list
   repeat with i=1 to 10000
     put i & cr after x
   end repeat
   --time the operation
   put the long sec into t
   --sort the original way
   sort lines of x numeric by random(num of lines in x)
   --record the time
   put the long sec - t into a
   put the long sec into t
   --count first
   put num of lines in x into n
   --use the pre-count for the random
   sort lines of x numeric by random(n)
   put the long sec - t into b
   --show the times
   answer a,b
   --show how much difference
   answer a/b
end mouseup

On my computer the second sort is 28 times faster.

Still, the way it's written in the How To is easy to understand for 
introducing the concept. But for people seriously using it, here you 
go. I just think this is a beautiful example and I have done my own 
clumsy shuffling thing many times; you can bet I'm switching to this 
method!

(And actually, if you really wanted to be perfect, you might improve 
it by multiplying the number of lines or items by a desired amount 
for your random number parameter, so you have less chance of two 
lines having the same random number and (I assume) remaining in the 
order they originally were in the list.)

 From time to time I'm going to see what else is lurking there in How 
To; I think it's not just for newcomers!!! :-)

Curry


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 19 00:33:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 19 00:33:00 2003
Subject: Shuffle
In-Reply-To: <a05111b01bb3e80736f3a@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <7BDE99FE-B9A9-11D7-B4D0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 11:15 PM, curry wrote:

> (And actually, if you really wanted to be perfect, you might improve  
> it by multiplying the number of lines or items by a desired amount for  
> your random number parameter, so you have less chance of two lines  
> having the same random number and (I assume) remaining in the order  
> they originally were in the list.)

Or use some large number?

Dar Scott
************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Jul 19 01:27:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat Jul 19 01:27:01 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <200307181828.OAA14804@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3E3241.1DBF%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Richard,

> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:50:39 -0700
> Subject: Re: Magnifier
> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>

> Not mine.  As much as I've enjoyed SC over the years, my work these days is
> so committed to multi-platform deployment that I rarely get a chance to use
> SC anymore.
----------
Well it's from Fourth World, and not new. I think it was done in SC3 because
I had to convert it to SC 4.1.1. That's why I figured you'd know about it,
but I see that it's Mark's project.
----------
> What does it do?
----------
It's a moveable graphic which uses the sourceRect feature to place a blowup
of whatever is under it in itself. It's very cool, just exactly like moving
a magnifying glass over the screen when you drag it.

If you still have SC, you can get it here (4th from the bottom):

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SuperCard/files/Samples/>

Best,
Ken N>





From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Jul 19 01:35:04 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat Jul 19 01:35:04 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <200307181828.OAA14804@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3E3306.1DC0%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Dar,

Please take a look at my Re to Scott.

> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:14:37 -0600
> Subject: Re: Magnifier
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>


> I've made some crude things for looking closely at part of a stack, but
> that part has to be visible.  I don't know how to do that with a
> magnifying glass in front, but if you are willing for the magnification
> to be someplace else, then I'd use snapshot
----------
Won't work, I don't think.

Ken N.



From curry at pair.com  Sat Jul 19 01:47:03 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Sat Jul 19 01:47:03 2003
Subject: Shuffle
In-Reply-To: <200307182241.SAA25832@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307182241.SAA25832@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b04bb3e97714eb3@[68.86.46.40]>

>  > (And actually, if you really wanted to be perfect, you might improve 
>  > it by multiplying the number of lines or items by a desired amount for 
>  > your random number parameter, so you have less chance of two lines 
>  > having the same random number and (I assume) remaining in the order 
>  > they originally were in the list.)
>
>Or use some large number?
>
>Dar Scott

Yeah! That's simpler. :-)


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Jul 19 02:08:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat Jul 19 02:08:00 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <200307181828.OAA14804@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3E3BF4.1DC1%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Scott,

> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:28:17 -0700
> Subject: Re: Magnifier
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
 
> If I understand what you're looking for, the easiest way would probably be
> to take a snapshot of the current card and enlarge the resulting image.
> 
> You can take a look at our Camouflage demo stack which does this for the
> screen, rather than a card:
> 
> go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"
> 
> Launch the Camouflage stack and then click the Magnify button...
----------
Yes...that's basically it. I'd love to build one for my mom to use for
reading emails (she has macular degeneration).

Mind if I take a gander at the scripts?

It'd be really cool to have a the magnified image appear in a simulated
magnifying glass widget.

I guess the trick is in the updating process, so that the actual screen
comes back when you quit dragging

Ken N.



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 19 02:14:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 19 02:14:00 2003
Subject: building a font picker
In-Reply-To: <200307190427.h6J4Qts4021732@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <8A708227-B9B7-11D7-A8E1-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 10:27  PM, Howard Bornstein wrote:

>  This is using my previous suggestion of comparing two letters
> rather than the entire alphabet.

Howard thanks. Yes this method is fairly quick. Actually I was hoping 
for a ready-made system property like "the fixedWidthFontFamilies" or 
something ;-)

re: comparing I vs. Z or the whole alphabet. Picking two letters I 
would take I and M. I think M is supposed to be the widest letter in 
general, hence an "em-dash"... I could be wrong about that.

But my reason for using entire alphabet instead of I and Z is that I 
think it could be possible for some font to have an I and Z have a 
difference in width that is less than the resolution of "the 
formattedWidth". I can't visualize what the font would be, but it's 
certainly possible. That's why I would make it more reliable by 
comparing multiple letters. Thoughts?

> The key to this speed, btw, is the lock screen command.

Yep I am doing that too.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Jul 19 02:17:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat Jul 19 02:17:01 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <200307182241.SAA25798@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3E3DBD.1DC3%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Dar,

> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:36:57 -0600
> Subject: Re: Magnifier
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
> 
> 
> On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 12:14 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
> 
>> I'd use snapshot.
> 
> I forgot to mention.  The rectangle is correct in the example but the
> values are scrambled in the TD.  If you get a picture of the wrong part
> of the screen, that may be the trouble.
-----------
OK, I'll keep that in mind...if i knew what a TD is.

Ken N.



From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 19 02:33:03 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 19 02:33:03 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <BB3E3DBD.1DC3%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <4A6A3065-B9BA-11D7-9F49-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 10:13 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

>> I forgot to mention.  The rectangle is correct in the example but the
>> values are scrambled in the TD.  If you get a picture of the wrong 
>> part
>> of the screen, that may be the trouble.
> -----------
> OK, I'll keep that in mind...if i knew what a TD is.

Sorry, I had seen others refer to the Transcript Dictionary as the TD 
and I was trying to act cool like I was in the in crowd.

The entry for 'import snapshot' has this syntax description:
     import snapshot [from rect[angle] top,left,bot,rt [of window 
windowID]]

The example for taking a screenshot of a stack has this line:
     import snapshot from rect (the rect of stack "My Stack")

...so I think the syntax should be this:
     import snapshot [from rect[angle] left,top,rt,bot [of window 
windowID]]

...which seems to work for me.

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 19 02:41:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 19 02:41:01 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <BB3E3306.1DC0%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <4E226D29-B9BB-11D7-9F49-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 09:28 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

>> I've made some crude things for looking closely at part of a stack, 
>> but
>> that part has to be visible.  I don't know how to do that with a
>> magnifying glass in front, but if you are willing for the 
>> magnification
>> to be someplace else, then I'd use snapshot
> ----------
> Won't work, I don't think.

The magnified image has to be over what is being magnified, huh?

How about you take a snapshot of the entire desktop when the mouse goes 
down, create the magnifying glass at the mouse, drag it around showing 
an enlargement of the snapshot at that point?  Things will be frozen, 
though.

Dar Scott



From preid at reidit.co.uk  Sat Jul 19 03:48:01 2003
From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Sat Jul 19 03:48:01 2003
Subject: building a font picker
In-Reply-To: <3EC5623E-B989-11D7-A8E1-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <3EC5623E-B989-11D7-A8E1-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <p05210605bb3eb407e121@[192.168.181.3]>

>But what are the "CE" fonts?

"Central European" fonts, i.e. those based on Cyrillic characters 
rather than the usual Roman characters.  If you install additional 
font support in Mac OS 9 for languages such as Russian, Polish, etc. 
then these fonts appear.

Cheers

Peter
-- 
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)8700 527576
E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk
Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk


From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Sat Jul 19 04:31:01 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Sat Jul 19 04:31:01 2003
Subject: Shuffle
In-Reply-To: <a05111b04bb3e97714eb3@[68.86.46.40]> 
References: <200307182241.SAA25832@www.runrev.com>
            <a05111b04bb3e97714eb3@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <20030719092455.8950.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

curry writes:
[snip]
> 
>>  > (And actually, if you really wanted to be perfect, you might improve  
>> > it by multiplying the number of lines or items by a desired amount for  
>> > your random number parameter, so you have less chance of two lines  > 
>> having the same random number and (I assume) remaining in the order  > 
>> they originally were in the list.) 
>> 

===========
But then, you no longer have a randomized list... You now have a non-random 
function based on random. 

miscdas 


From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Jul 19 04:33:09 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat Jul 19 04:33:09 2003
Subject: you - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <20030718212902.88077.qmail@web20007.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BCD78840-B9CA-11D7-8600-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Erik,

> ...
> Major Klaus,
>
> i have several URL's for your name.
> is there a preferred one for RunRev purposes?

Yo, my "official" URL for RunRev purposes is:

www.major-k.de/revstart.html

That will open the x-talk section directly in the frameset.

I already started to translatethe complete website (except one or two 
things,
that are not of interest fo english speaking folks.
Unfortunately the german folks are also not interested :-D

> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sat Jul 19 05:50:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Sat Jul 19 05:50:01 2003
Subject: strange X build
In-Reply-To: <151978EA-B94C-11D7-9B41-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <93D3A6EA-B9D5-11D7-93A0-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

Hello list
I have builded on OSX (10.2.6) a distribution for OSX, OS9, WIN and 
Linux.
The OSX build has a very strange "appearance". There is no stack in the 
data folder. All are in the  splash screen.
All other builds are correct and working fine. Seems the OSX works fine 
too..?
Any ideas what this can be...?

Thanks for help in advance

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Sat Jul 19 06:15:01 2003
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Sat Jul 19 06:15:01 2003
Subject: strange X build
In-Reply-To: <93D3A6EA-B9D5-11D7-93A0-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <52D5FAF6-B9D9-11D7-8110-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>

Hi Wolfgang,

Have you taken a look inside the package contents ?
There is a MacOs folder that contains a data folder with all substacks 
inside.

Hope it can help.

Regards.

Thierry Arbellot.

On Saturday, Jul 19, 2003, at 12:41 Europe/Paris, Wolfgang M. Bereuter 
wrote:

> Hello list
> I have builded on OSX (10.2.6) a distribution for OSX, OS9, WIN and 
> Linux.
> The OSX build has a very strange "appearance". There is no stack in 
> the data folder. All are in the  splash screen.
> All other builds are correct and working fine. Seems the OSX works 
> fine too..?
> Any ideas what this can be...?
>
> Thanks for help in advance
>
> regards
> Wolfgang M. Bereuter
>
> Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
> INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
> Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
> ...............................
> http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
> ...............................
> Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From bornstein at designeq.com  Sat Jul 19 13:04:04 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Sat Jul 19 13:04:04 2003
Subject: building a font picker
Message-ID: <200307191757.h6JHvDs4021888@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>

>But my reason for using entire alphabet instead of I and Z is that I 
>think it could be possible for some font to have an I and Z have a 
>difference in width that is less than the resolution of "the 
>formattedWidth". I can't visualize what the font would be, but it's 
>certainly possible. That's why I would make it more reliable by 
>comparing multiple letters. Thoughts?

Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention this other part. In the fields I set up to 
test, I make the fontsize something like 18 points (or larger). This 
should insure that the difference between "i" and "M" (I think you're 
right about "M") are clearly differentiated. I had set of some tests that 
gave me the actual formattedwidth of each character at different sizes, 
and at the larger sizes, they were always clearly different.

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From engleerica at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 19 13:56:03 2003
From: engleerica at yahoo.com (eric engle)
Date: Sat Jul 19 13:56:03 2003
Subject: Buying Revolution in Europe
In-Reply-To: <200307191601.MAA22995@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20030719184919.79490.qmail@web11101.mail.yahoo.com>

I would like to buy the low end starter license for
Revolution. 

I live in Germany. I would rather pay in euros,
perhaps by postal money order. I don't have credit
cards, because I refuse to go into debt.

Is it possible to pay in Euros? To an account in
Germany?

Thanks!

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 19 14:30:03 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 19 14:30:03 2003
Subject: size of image
Message-ID: <741B3D5C-BA1E-11D7-B343-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

How do I get the size of an image that has been squished or stretched?   
The width and height are "as stretched".  I want the pixel dimensions  
of the original image.

Dar Scott
************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Jul 19 15:24:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat Jul 19 15:24:01 2003
Subject: size of image
In-Reply-To: <741B3D5C-BA1E-11D7-B343-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <741B3D5C-BA1E-11D7-B343-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <3F19A724.2030003@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/19/03 2:23 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> How do I get the size of an image that has been squished or stretched?   
> The width and height are "as stretched".  I want the pixel dimensions  
> of the original image.

the formattedWidth of img 1
the formattedHeight of img 1

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 19 16:07:03 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sat Jul 19 16:07:03 2003
Subject: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR
In-Reply-To: <v03130308bb3dc02cd303@[10.0.1.7]>
Message-ID: <20030719210027.36635.qmail@web20007.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <jeanne at runrev.com>
wrote:
> There is a general distinction here to be made,
> between character
> formatting and paragraph formatting.
> 
> Character formatting - font, size, style, and
> color changes that may be
> applied to any part of a line or lines - is
> well-supported in Rev using
> either HTML and RTF formats.
> 
> Paragraph formatting - alignment of individual
> paragraphs, header levels,
> list formats, and so on - is not. This is not
> so much because of lack of
> support in the RTFText and HTMLText properties,
> per se, as because fields
> don't support these things (at least not yet).
> A field is more like a
> SimpleText window than like a Word window, in
> terms of the formatting
> options it supports: you can do character
> formatting, but although you can
> set alignment, tab stops, and margins
> field-wide, you can't set them for
> individual paragraphs.
> 
> I don't suppose this observation really helps,
> in terms of getting the
> formatting you want to import from Word, but it
> may help clarify why some
> things are supported and others aren't, and
> help you predict what
> formatting will and won't transfer.
> 
> I know that some of these paragraph formatting
> options for fields have been
> feature requested - because *I've* requested
> them ;-) - and I anticipate
> that if and when they're added to fields, the
> RTFText property will also be
> updated to support them.

how about using a field for each paragraph?

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 19 16:26:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sat Jul 19 16:26:00 2003
Subject: you - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <BCD78840-B9CA-11D7-8600-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20030719211840.42753.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

> Yo, my "official" URL for RunRev purposes is:
> 
> www.major-k.de/revstart.html
> 
> That will open the x-talk section directly in
> the frameset.
> 
> I already started to translate the complete
> website (except one or two 
> things,
> that are not of interest to english speaking
> folks.
> Unfortunately the german folks are also not
> interested :-D

nice looking site. that splash of color in
the RunRev link graphic puts some Sonne in
what was otherwise, ich muss es sagen, a somewhat
grausam GUI. in fact that little bit of yellow
and brown humanizes the blue-red-white
combination.(apologies to France, UK, USA, etc.)

maybe RR could emulate this and add some
earth tones to the surround. this all may
seem obscure, but to "me - the potential buyer"
they have a visceral effect on purchasing
decisions.

Erik


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Sat Jul 19 16:40:01 2003
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham)
Date: Sat Jul 19 16:40:01 2003
Subject: building a font picker
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030719193812.00c75a48@pop.wanadoo.fr>

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:06:38 -0600, Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com> wrote:

>re: comparing I vs. Z or the whole alphabet. Picking two letters I
>would take I and M. I think M is supposed to be the widest letter in
>general, hence an "em-dash"... I could be wrong about that.
>
>But my reason for using entire alphabet instead of I and Z is that I
>think it could be possible for some font to have an I and Z have a
>difference in width that is less than the resolution of "the
>formattedWidth". I can't visualize what the font would be, but it's
>certainly possible. That's why I would make it more reliable by
>comparing multiple letters. Thoughts?


For normal fonts, I think you are safe with i and M (that's lower case i 
and upper case M). These are traditionally the narrowest and widest letters 
in a font. Of course it would be **possible** to design a proportionally 
spaced typeface which breaks this rule to the extent of making these two 
letters equal, but it would be a very strange one. However I have just 
thought of two other potential showstoppers - (a) the incomplete font sets, 
where for example there are only capital letters with all the unused ones 
just the same letter (usually printed as a small rectangle); and (b) 
display fonts where the 'letters' are in fact symbols (as in Zapf Dingbats 
etc). In these fonts all bets are off for individual letters, so if you are 
simply running through all the fonts on your system to divide monospaced 
from proportional fonts, you might have to go back to comparing the 
complete alphabet as before.

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Jul 19 16:50:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat Jul 19 16:50:01 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <200307191601.MAA22966@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3F0AA7.1DDA%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi again Dar,

> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:33:35 -0600
> Subject: Re: Magnifier
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>

> How about you take a snapshot of the entire desktop when the mouse goes
> down, create the magnifying glass at the mouse, drag it around showing
> an enlargement of the snapshot at that point?  Things will be frozen,
> though.
----------
Well, I think that's how Scott's demo works, (it works well), but yet it
offers the real Desktop (or whatever is open...I tried it with my emailer
and it works fine) when you release. IOW, somehow it gives you back what's
actually there. I think while you have the mouse down, the Rev window is
active and the magnifier rect works with the screenshot as you drag it, when
you release it freezes what's in the rect and gives you back the real thing.
Press the mouse while it's in the rect of the magnifier, and it freezes the
background (because it's using the screenshot again)  and reactivates Rev
(the magnifier).

It gives the user the illusion of a DT widget, but it really just toggles
reality....I think. I haven't gone over the scripts thoroughly yet, as I
have a lot of work to do on my boat today and tomorrow in prep for hauling
out in a week or so...one of those tasks that has to be done, I can't put it
off any longer.

Thanks,
Ken N.



From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Jul 19 16:53:02 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat Jul 19 16:53:02 2003
Subject: you - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <20030719211840.42753.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6ECA12C3-BA32-11D7-8600-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Erik,

> ...
> nice looking site. that splash of color in
> the RunRev link graphic puts some Sonne in

:-)

> what was otherwise, ich muss es sagen, a somewhat
> grausam GUI. in fact that little bit of yellow
> and brown humanizes the blue-red-white
> combination.(apologies to France, UK, USA, etc.)

????

I cannot follow you here...

Except the "fun" page my "headline"-images are all greyscale jpgs...

What exactly are you talking about?

What graphics card are you using?
I noticed some evil color changes on windows... :-)

> maybe RR could emulate this and add some
> earth tones to the surround. this all may
> seem obscure, but to "me - the potential buyer"
> they have a visceral effect on purchasing
> decisions.

Sorry, don't understand...?

> Erik

What's up Erik?
Had a bad day? ;-)
It ain't THAT shabby :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 19 17:15:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sat Jul 19 17:15:01 2003
Subject: you - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <6ECA12C3-BA32-11D7-8600-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20030719220804.51603.qmail@web20004.mail.yahoo.com>

ok, the company page (GUI?) is a study in
greys. not so cheerful.

your RR page hase a link with a yellow pencil
and a light brownish hand around the RR logo.
this lights things up.

red-white-blue by itself lacks warmth (to me).
the flags of France UK USA are these colors.
the German flag seems warmer with the gold.

adding some color was a good call is what i
meant.

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 19 17:17:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 19 17:17:01 2003
Subject: size of image
In-Reply-To: <3F19A724.2030003@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <B7506646-BA35-11D7-B343-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 02:16 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 7/19/03 2:23 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>
>> How do I get the size of an image that has been squished or 
>> stretched?   The width and height are "as stretched".  I want the 
>> pixel dimensions  of the original image.
>
> the formattedWidth of img 1
> the formattedHeight of img 1

Wow!  Thanks!  It makes sense once I think about it, but even though I 
searched through terms with "image" in the description, I skipped over 
those.

Dar Scott



From david at kwinter.ca  Sat Jul 19 17:25:01 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Sat Jul 19 17:25:01 2003
Subject: Magnifier (script!)
In-Reply-To: <BB3E3BF4.1DC1%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BB3F1FB8.1B8B%david@kwinter.ca>

> I guess the trick is in the updating process, so that the actual screen
> comes back when you quit dragging
> 
> Ken N.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


Ken, make a new stack, make it big and put this into the stack script:

on moveStack
  if exists(image 1) then delete image 1
 
  put the rect of this stack into sRect
  hide stack me
  import snapshot from rect sRect
 
  put the height of image 1 into originalH
  put the width of image 1 into originalV
  set the height of image 1 to originalH*2
  set the height of image 1 to originalV*2
  show stack me
 
end moveStack   



From david at kwinter.ca  Sat Jul 19 17:29:04 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Sat Jul 19 17:29:04 2003
Subject: Magnifier (script!)
In-Reply-To: <BB3F1FB8.1B8B%david@kwinter.ca>
Message-ID: <BB3F20B5.1B8D%david@kwinter.ca>

Sorry, I made copy-paste typo, try this one:


on moveStack
  if exists(image 1) then delete image 1
 
  put the rect of this stack into sRect
  hide stack me
  import snapshot from rect sRect
 
  put the height of image 1 into originalH
  put the width of image 1 into originalW
  set the height of image 1 to originalH*2
  set the width of image 1 to originalW*2
  show stack me
 
end moveStack   



From pbsi at mac.com  Sat Jul 19 17:32:01 2003
From: pbsi at mac.com (PBSI)
Date: Sat Jul 19 17:32:01 2003
Subject: New User Question, OSX, return in field
In-Reply-To: <20030719220804.51603.qmail@web20004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C861949A-BA37-11D7-984F-000393020FF0@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

As a newly licensed user of Revolution (thanks RunRev for the license 
changes) on OSX, can anyone tell me if there is an easy way to get a 
field to ignore the return key?  On OSX the return key is supposed to 
invoke the default button (which I have one of) but it doesn't seem to 
work in Revolution.

Thanks, Brian Maher



From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Jul 19 17:37:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat Jul 19 17:37:01 2003
Subject: you - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <20030719220804.51603.qmail@web20004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <823AEE14-BA38-11D7-8600-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Am Sonntag, 20.07.03 um 00:08 Uhr schrieb erik hansen:

>
> ok, the company page (GUI?) is a study in
> greys. not so cheerful.
>
> your RR page hase a link with a yellow pencil
> and a light brownish hand around the RR logo.
> this lights things up.
>
> red-white-blue by itself lacks warmth (to me).
> the flags of France UK USA are these colors.
> the German flag seems warmer with the gold.
>
> adding some color was a good call is what i
> meant.
>
> Erik

Aha! ;--)

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From themacguy at macosx.com  Sat Jul 19 19:20:01 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Sat Jul 19 19:20:01 2003
Subject: Standalone with extra stacks
Message-ID: <E9B9BDDC-BA46-11D7-8711-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

This may sound strange but I've only been developing single-stack 
standalones. I've used text files to store various params.

I now have to create a three-stack solution; at least, I think three 
stacks is the proper design. I'd appreciate any advice  regarding the 
project as I describe it below:

Stack #1: Splash screen containing the standalone engine. No changes to 
this stack once it's compiled.

Stack #2: Sign-in stack containing a few buttons and a field. The 
buttons contain the code that adds/deletes user names to/from the 
field. Other code in the buttons will also create/delete folders named 
for each user.

Stack #3: The "business" part of the program containing a number of 
cards. Each card contains a few QT Player objects and the code 
contained in the stack (and/or buttons in the stack) will permit the 
user to link to photos or movies on the local hard drive.

This all seems quite straightforward to me except for one thing (which, 
as I indicated above, I've never done): What is the Transcript code I 
would use to call Stack #2 from Stack #1 and close Stack #1's window so 
it's not seen for the rest of the program?

Would this work?:

open stack "stack #2"
close stack "stack #1"

...or would this simply exit the program?

Should I just hide the window of Stack #1 (which is the standalone)?

As always, advice is gratefully appreciated.

Thanks,
Barry



From themacguy at macosx.com  Sat Jul 19 19:29:03 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Sat Jul 19 19:29:03 2003
Subject: Standalone with extra stacks
Message-ID: <396462C4-BA48-11D7-8711-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

I think I found the answer. Anyone care to confirm?

-- script of splash screen standalone (named "Splash.rev")
on openStack
   send "Continue" to me in 2 seconds
end openStack

on Continue
   open stack "Main.rev"
   close stack "Splash.rev"
end Continue


So the above seems to indicate that closing a stack (even though it 
contains the standalone engine) leaves the engine running. Correct?

Thanks,
Barry
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From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Jul 19 19:48:01 2003
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat Jul 19 19:48:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CE6EB.30DDD%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0307191739330.29694-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Unless, as Hypercard users have told a bazillion times, their app is
written with some "toy" tool...

:(

Judy

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> It's not about developers.  It's about end-users.
>
> End-users don't generally care what their apps were made with so long as
> they provide a great software experience.





From mfitz53 at comcast.net  Sat Jul 19 19:51:03 2003
From: mfitz53 at comcast.net (Michael)
Date: Sat Jul 19 19:51:03 2003
Subject: Update to which version?
Message-ID: <30951093095afe.3095afe3095109@icomcast.net>

Having purchased the sbe license with available updates for a 
year...when a bug fix is released and distributed, will this new 
pricing mean I will have to lose functionality if I want to update? At 
this point, I am able to build to linux, one of the facets of RR that 
appealed to me when I decided to buy the license.
 I hope I am not repeating something here that may have been already 
covered. If so, accept my apologies.

mike





From dan at shafermedia.com  Sat Jul 19 20:02:04 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat Jul 19 20:02:04 2003
Subject: Doc Nit: No mouseField function
Message-ID: <D2BCA1C0-BA4C-11D7-A162-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

The mouseStack function definition in the docs for 2.x refers to a 
mouseField function, which apparently does not exist.



From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Jul 19 20:04:01 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat Jul 19 20:04:01 2003
Subject: Standalone with extra stacks
In-Reply-To: <E9B9BDDC-BA46-11D7-8711-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
References: <E9B9BDDC-BA46-11D7-8711-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <1058626523.1401.5.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Sun, 2003-07-20 at 02:12, Barry Levine wrote:
> This may sound strange but I've only been developing single-stack 
> standalones. I've used text files to store various params.
> 
> I now have to create a three-stack solution; at least, I think three 
> stacks is the proper design. I'd appreciate any advice  regarding the 
> project as I describe it below:
> 
> Stack #1: Splash screen containing the standalone engine. No changes to 
> this stack once it's compiled.
> 
> Stack #2: Sign-in stack containing a few buttons and a field. The 
> buttons contain the code that adds/deletes user names to/from the 
> field. Other code in the buttons will also create/delete folders named 
> for each user.
> 
> Stack #3: The "business" part of the program containing a number of 
> cards. Each card contains a few QT Player objects and the code 
> contained in the stack (and/or buttons in the stack) will permit the 
> user to link to photos or movies on the local hard drive.
> 
> This all seems quite straightforward to me except for one thing (which, 
> as I indicated above, I've never done): What is the Transcript code I 
> would use to call Stack #2 from Stack #1 and close Stack #1's window so 
> it's not seen for the rest of the program?
> 
> Would this work?:
> 
> open stack "stack #2"
> close stack "stack #1"
> 
> ...or would this simply exit the program?
> 
> Should I just hide the window of Stack #1 (which is the standalone)?
> 
> As always, advice is gratefully appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Barry
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Try, if needed :

Instead of close stack "stack #1", close window the short name of "stack
#1"
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jul 19 20:11:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Jul 19 20:11:01 2003
Subject: Standalone with extra stacks
In-Reply-To: <396462C4-BA48-11D7-8711-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <BB3F3866.30F62%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Barry Levine wrote:

> I think I found the answer. Anyone care to confirm?
> 
> -- script of splash screen standalone (named "Splash.rev")
> on openStack 
> send "Continue" to me in 2 seconds
> end openStack 
> 
> on Continue 
> open stack "Main.rev"
> close stack "Splash.rev"
> end Continue 
> 
> 
> So the above seems to indicate that closing a stack (even though it contains
> the standalone engine) leaves the engine running. Correct?

There are two factors at play: there must be at least one stack open at all
times, with the exception being that if there are any pending messages the
engine will not quit until they are either cancelled or executed.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Jul 19 20:20:01 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat Jul 19 20:20:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0307191739330.29694-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: 	 <Pine.GSO.4.33.0307191739330.29694-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <1058627529.1404.21.camel@www.kmax.net>

> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
> > It's not about developers.  It's about end-users.
> >
> > End-users don't generally care what their apps were made with so long as
> > they provide a great software experience.

Hello Richard,

If, we, the RR/MC developers, are able to build apps that are payed by
picking just a reasonable part of the profits delta share that the
end-user client will do in using our softs in a professional context,
RR/MC will become an excellent "success fees" support and provider...

On the other side, i believe that it will always be more difficult to
get reasonable financial success in developing apps dedicated to non
professional markets.
-- 
Bests, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Jul 19 21:46:00 2003
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat Jul 19 21:46:00 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <BB3E3241.1DBF%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0307191937550.797-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Hi Ken,

Is it something like HC's Fat Bits?

Judy

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Ken Norris wrote:

> ----------
> > What does it do?
> ----------
> It's a moveable graphic which uses the sourceRect feature to place a blowup
> of whatever is under it in itself. It's very cool, just exactly like moving
> a magnifying glass over the screen when you drag it.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Jul 19 22:13:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat Jul 19 22:13:01 2003
Subject: New User Question, OSX, return in field
In-Reply-To: <C861949A-BA37-11D7-984F-000393020FF0@mac.com>
References: <C861949A-BA37-11D7-984F-000393020FF0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3F1A0702.8010401@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/19/03 5:24 PM, PBSI wrote:

> As a newly licensed user of Revolution (thanks RunRev for the license 
> changes) on OSX, can anyone tell me if there is an easy way to get a 
> field to ignore the return key?  On OSX the return key is supposed to 
> invoke the default button (which I have one of) but it doesn't seem to 
> work in Revolution.

A button whose style is "default" will have the correct appearance, but 
doesn't automatically handle the return key; you have to do that with a 
script, as you found out. You can catch a return key press in a field by 
handling the "returnInField" message. Put a handler like this one into 
the field script:

on returnInField
   send "mouseUp" to btn "myDefault" -- use your own button name
end returnInField

This handler assumes that the default button has its own script that 
does something. The handler will redirect the key press and not allow it 
to put a return character into the field. Of course, if your users are 
expecting to be able to type a return into the field, they will be 
frustrated because this handler will block it.

There is also an "enterInField" message, in case you want to handle the 
Enter key as well.

Welcome to the Revolution.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From katir at hindu.org  Sat Jul 19 22:27:01 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sat Jul 19 22:27:01 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
Message-ID: <01A0C0FF-BA61-11D7-BE78-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Probably too much to ask... but does anyone think that there would a 
way for revolution to determine if one image was a duplicated of 
another? I mean, not by file name but from the image data itself?


Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org



From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Sat Jul 19 22:30:01 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Sat Jul 19 22:30:01 2003
Subject: Disappear script editors
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D57@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

Unfortunately, your suggestion doesn't do what I am looking for.  Scenario:
I am typing in a script window, go to another application like Outlook to do
something, and then return to Revolution.  I want the script window to still
be there in front, but it is always put in back (or closed?).  Can I not
keep the script editor from disappearing?

Thanks

Mark

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Shao Sean [mailto:shaosean at unitz.ca]

  go to the Preferences panel (under the Edit menu)..
  go to "Script Editor" (the 5th item in the list on the left
  side of the prefs)
  check out the "when editing scripts:"


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jul 19 22:38:04 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Jul 19 22:38:04 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
In-Reply-To: <01A0C0FF-BA61-11D7-BE78-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <BB3F5AF7.30F6F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Probably too much to ask... but does anyone think that there would a
> way for revolution to determine if one image was a duplicated of
> another? I mean, not by file name but from the image data itself?

Does this do it?:

if the imagedata of img 1 <> the imagedata of img 2 then...

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Sat Jul 19 22:43:01 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Sat Jul 19 22:43:01 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D58@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

As I understand it, Revolution can ready binary data, which suggests there
that you would have the ability to compare two files.  Others would know
this better than I.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sannyasin Sivakatirswami [mailto:katir at hindu.org]
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 8:20 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Image recognition tool


Probably too much to ask... but does anyone think that there would a 
way for revolution to determine if one image was a duplicated of 
another? I mean, not by file name but from the image data itself?


Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 19 22:45:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 19 22:45:01 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
In-Reply-To: <01A0C0FF-BA61-11D7-BE78-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <60783E80-BA63-11D7-80B5-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 09:19 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Probably too much to ask... but does anyone think that there would a 
> way for revolution to determine if one image was a duplicated of 
> another? I mean, not by file name but from the image data itself?

imageData(I1) = imageData(I2) and alphaData(I1) = alphaData(I2) and 
formatedWidth(I1) = formatedWidth(I2)

Just a wild guess.

I don't know how that would work with multiframe gifs.

Dar Scott



From vikramsingh at mailandnews.com  Sat Jul 19 22:46:43 2003
From: vikramsingh at mailandnews.com (Vikram Singh)
Date: Sat Jul 19 22:46:43 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
Message-ID: <3F21DB5F@mailandnews.com>

Siva,

I think if you use md5digest it may give you what you want.

Regards
Vikram

>===== Original Message From Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> =====
>Probably too much to ask... but does anyone think that there would a
>way for revolution to determine if one image was a duplicated of
>another? I mean, not by file name but from the image data itself?
>
>
>Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
>Himalayan Academy Publications
>at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
>katir at hindu.org
> 



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Jul 19 23:56:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat Jul 19 23:56:01 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <200307191601.MAA22966@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB3F6E70.1DE5%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Dar,

> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:26:19 -0600
> Subject: Re: Magnifier
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
>
> The entry for 'import snapshot' has this syntax description:
> import snapshot [from rect[angle] top,left,bot,rt [of window
> windowID]]
> 
> The example for taking a screenshot of a stack has this line:
> import snapshot from rect (the rect of stack "My Stack")
> 
> ...so I think the syntax should be this:
> import snapshot [from rect[angle] left,top,rt,bot [of window
> windowID]]
> 
> ...which seems to work for me.
----------
Right. The normal coordinate description for a rect is as you say, so the
"TD" is wrong the way it says it.

However, in many descriptions, any screen coordinate is, by definition,
always a pair of numbers usually drawn from what is usually called the
topLeft corner (pair) to the bottomRight cornewr (pair). Maybe that's where
the Dictionary description got off track.

Just guessing,
Ken N.



From vikramsingh at mailandnews.com  Sat Jul 19 23:58:02 2003
From: vikramsingh at mailandnews.com (Vikram Singh)
Date: Sat Jul 19 23:58:02 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
Message-ID: <3F1AEA32@mailandnews.com>

It will also allow you (after formatting) to maintain a list of human readable 
chunks of characters without necessarily maintaining the corresponding image 
in that environment (eg that image may be in one of many substacks which are 
not open). You can then compare the correspondingly formatted md5digest of 
incoming images with the list to know if a copy exists. I think searching 
through a few thousand lines will take less than a few seconds! Isnt rev 
powerful?

Regards

Vikram

>===== Original Message From Vikram Singh <vikramsingh at mailandnews.com> =====
>Siva,
>
>I think if you use md5digest it may give you what you want.
>
>Regards
>Vikram
>
>>===== Original Message From Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> =====
>>Probably too much to ask... but does anyone think that there would a
>>way for revolution to determine if one image was a duplicated of
>>another? I mean, not by file name but from the image data itself?
>>
>>
>>Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
>>Himalayan Academy Publications
>>at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
>>katir at hindu.org
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From swartart at iafrica.com  Sun Jul 20 03:58:04 2003
From: swartart at iafrica.com (Ryno Swart)
Date: Sun Jul 20 03:58:04 2003
Subject: you - the potential buyer
In-Reply-To: <200307181828.OAA14833@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00ED4AC6-BA90-11D7-8621-003065D180EE@iafrica.com>

> I cannot but to encourage you to ask, ask, ask this list as much and as
> basic questions as they appear...
>
> Noone will point with the finger towards you and if someone does, i'd
> love to show him/her my complete collection of baseball bats :-D

Thank you for your very encouraging messages to Klaus and all the rest 
of you.
I shall attempt to share my confusions and hopefully to become 
proficient at this wonderful form of communication.

The comment from Wolfgang in another thread about designers working in 
the right brain mode fits me very well:
> (creativ, associative try and error, overwiev...)
And this may be part of the difficulty in learning faster. We are 
always looking for the elegant solution, sometimes in preference to the 
logical one.

I went to http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/ and found Metaclass, and it 
looks very good. Not being familiar with the etiquette of off-list 
mailing, Klaus, I thank you for your kind invitation, and I am sure to 
call on your kindness. It is remarkable how inspiring it is to get that 
feeling of enthusiasm from people who share your interests!

For now one question. Is there some way of making a group of, say 24 
horizontally placed images draggable and at the same time clickable so 
that 6 are visible at any time?

Ryno.




From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Jul 20 04:03:06 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sun Jul 20 04:03:06 2003
Subject: Magnifier (script!)
In-Reply-To: <BB3F20B5.1B8D%david@kwinter.ca>
Message-ID: <07EBDB0E-BA90-11D7-801A-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le dimanche, 20 juil 2003, ? 00:22 Europe/Brussels, David Kwinter a 
?crit :

> Sorry, I made copy-paste typo, try this one:
>
>
> on moveStack
>   if exists(image 1) then delete image 1
>
>   put the rect of this stack into sRect
>   hide stack me
>   import snapshot from rect sRect
>
>   put the height of image 1 into originalH
>   put the width of image 1 into originalW
>   set the height of image 1 to originalH*2
>   set the width of image 1 to originalW*2
>   show stack me
>
> end moveStack
>
> _______________________________________________
>

Hi list,

I have another problem :

I have an image in a stack

the rect of img 1 is "30,20,330,220"

i'd like that when  the user click on the image, the image is zoomed in 
and when the user option-click the image zooms out
AND when the user zooms in, the zoom happens on the img where the user 
has clicked.
Is it possible ?


Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Jul 20 04:05:05 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sun Jul 20 04:05:05 2003
Subject: closestackrequest
Message-ID: <2EBDA2FC-BA90-11D7-801A-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hi

I have a newbie question

I don't understand the meaning on the "closestackrequest"

Can anyone gives me an sample of a script using this command ?

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From swartart at iafrica.com  Sun Jul 20 04:48:03 2003
From: swartart at iafrica.com (Ryno Swart)
Date: Sun Jul 20 04:48:03 2003
Subject: A quick note of thanks.
In-Reply-To: <200307182241.SAA25832@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <FB48D402-BA96-11D7-8621-003065D180EE@iafrica.com>

> Well guys welcome to the list.  There are a lot of us older types here.
>   While I am not quite as "advanced" as you, I am getting up there as
> well.
> (55).  :-)

Hi Steve,

This reply is off-list because I wanted personally to thank you. I am 
already dusting off my half abandoned projects, fired up by the 
generous responses of you and the other guys on the list.

Ryno.



From dottorzivago at fastwebnet.it  Sun Jul 20 05:43:03 2003
From: dottorzivago at fastwebnet.it (Dottor Zivago)
Date: Sun Jul 20 05:43:03 2003
Subject: agenda
Message-ID: <BB403D3A.1CA%dottorzivago@fastwebnet.it>

Hi and nice weekend toeverybody,
I am trying now to create a little agenda.
I need a button that creates a number of cards whose name is a date.
I have put a script like this and it works

on mouseup
  set the usesystemdate to true
  put the short date into data
  repeat with i=1 to 3
    convert data from short date to seconds
    put data + (60 * 60 * 24 )*i into giorno
    convert giorno to long date
    create card giorno
  end repeat
end mouseup
It creates 3 cards from today's date

Now I would like to create a x number of cards from a x date
This is my GREAT script:
on mouseup
  set the usesystemdate to true
  ask "Insert start date"
  put it into dataini
  ask "Insert number od days to create"
  put it into giorni
  repeat with i=1 to giorni
  convert dataini from shortdate to seconds
  put dataini + (60 * 60 * 24 )*i into giorno
  convert giorno to short date
  create card giorno
  end repeat
end mouseup
It DOESN'T work

Better stop and play the guitar now :-(((
Any help greatly appreciated
Ciao
Ubaldo

PS a public thank you to Sarah who has been so kind to mail me her nice
calendar stack :-)



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Sun Jul 20 05:56:00 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Sun Jul 20 05:56:00 2003
Subject: strange X build
In-Reply-To: <52D5FAF6-B9D9-11D7-8110-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <97B333EE-BA9F-11D7-B519-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

Hi Thierry
On Saturday, Jul 19, 2003, at 13:08 Europe/Vienna, Thierry Arbellot 
wrote:

> Have you taken a look inside the package contents ?
> There is a MacOs folder that contains a data folder with all substacks 
> inside.

I dont understand what you mean with "package"? I have made builds with 
rev for different systems. All are equal. The splash sreen is the 
clickable file and the other stacks are in the data folder (as I have 
defined in the build). Only th OSX data folder is empty.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 20 06:05:01 2003
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun Jul 20 06:05:01 2003
Subject: strange X build
In-Reply-To: <97B333EE-BA9F-11D7-B519-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <FA5BB226-BAA0-11D7-BC13-0003936D5826@earthlink.net>

To look inside package contents, just left click (or control-click) on 
the icon in Finder.

On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 06:47 AM, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:

> Hi Thierry
> On Saturday, Jul 19, 2003, at 13:08 Europe/Vienna, Thierry Arbellot 
> wrote:
>
>> Have you taken a look inside the package contents ?
>> There is a MacOs folder that contains a data folder with all 
>> substacks inside.
>
> I dont understand what you mean with "package"? I have made builds 
> with rev for different systems. All are equal. The splash sreen is the 
> clickable file and the other stacks are in the data folder (as I have 
> defined in the build). Only th OSX data folder is empty.
>
> regards
> Wolfgang M. Bereuter
>
> Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
> INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
> Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
> ...............................
> http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
> ...............................
> Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Jul 20 06:43:03 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun Jul 20 06:43:03 2003
Subject: closestackrequest
In-Reply-To: <2EBDA2FC-BA90-11D7-801A-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <CCDD334B-BAA5-11D7-A0CD-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bonjour Yves,

> Hi
>
> I have a newbie question
> I don't understand the meaning on the "closestackrequest"
>
> Can anyone gives me an sample of a script using this command ?

When you close a window/stack, the message "closestackrequest" i sent 
to the engine.

If there is no handler that deals with "closestackrequest" then the 
window/stack will just close.

If you have a handler, you can either prevent the window from closing 
and/or implement
some "clean-up" etc... scripts before the window closes...

2 examples (stack script):

on closestackrequest
   ##  nothing here :-)
end closestackrequest

will never let the window close ;-)

on closestackrequest
   my_clean_up_handler
   pass closestackrequest
end closestackrequest

If the user closes or quits, this scriupt will call a handler of what 
kind ever
and after this has finished we pass the "closestackrequest" and the 
stack will finally close.

Hope that helps.

> Greetings.
> Yves COPPE

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Jul 20 06:45:03 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Sun Jul 20 06:45:03 2003
Subject: Disappear script editors
Message-ID: <200307201137.HAA07822@bright.unitz.ca>

the script window does move to the back when i do that, but
it never has disappeared on me..

----- Original Message Follows -----
> still be there in front, but it is always put in back (or
> closed?).  Can I not keep the script editor from


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Jul 20 07:16:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sun Jul 20 07:16:01 2003
Subject: closestackrequest
In-Reply-To: <CCDD334B-BAA5-11D7-A0CD-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <E0962046-BAAA-11D7-A011-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le dimanche, 20 juil 2003, ? 13:32 Europe/Brussels, Klaus Major a ?crit 
:

> When you close a window/stack, the message "closestackrequest" i sent 
> to the engine.
>
> If there is no handler that deals with "closestackrequest" then the 
> window/stack will just close.
>
> If you have a handler, you can either prevent the window from closing 
> and/or implement
> some "clean-up" etc... scripts before the window closes...
>
> 2 examples (stack script):
>
> on closestackrequest
>   ##  nothing here :-)
> end closestackrequest
>
> will never let the window close ;-)
>
>

Hi Klaus,

with such a script, how can we quit ???

if you write a code
quit
il will close the stack
but if the stack cannot close ????

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Jul 20 08:19:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun Jul 20 08:19:01 2003
Subject: closestackrequest
In-Reply-To: <E0962046-BAAA-11D7-A011-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <B53384D8-BAB3-11D7-A0CD-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bonjour Yves,

>> ...
>> on closestackrequest
>>   ##  nothing here :-)
>> end closestackrequest
>>
>> will never let the window close ;-)
>
> Hi Klaus,
>
> with such a script, how can we quit ???

Jamais :-)

> if you write a code
> quit
> il will close the stack
> but if the stack cannot close ????

If you have a "closestackrequest" handler you will have to
"pass closestackrequest" in order to close/quit.

> Greetings.
> Yves COPPE

Au revoir...


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sun Jul 20 12:20:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Jul 20 12:20:01 2003
Subject: Disappear script editors
In-Reply-To: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D57@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
Message-ID: <60E6F9C3-BAD5-11D7-A8DF-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 09:22  PM, Mark Powell wrote:

> Unfortunately, your suggestion doesn't do what I am looking for.  
> Scenario:
> I am typing in a script window, go to another application like Outlook 
> to do
> something, and then return to Revolution.  I want the script window to 
> still
> be there in front, but it is always put in back (or closed?).  Can I 
> not
> keep the script editor from disappearing?

This never happens to me either...

Is it possible you are hitting the Return key? Hitting return will 
apply the changes in the script editor, and hitting Return again will 
close the script editor.

If you look in the Window menu in Revolution- is the script editor open 
& just hidden by another window?

What version of Windows are you running? How are you switching apps? 
task bar, Alt-Tab, something else?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From katir at hindu.org  Sun Jul 20 12:26:00 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun Jul 20 12:26:00 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
In-Reply-To: <3F21DB5F@mailandnews.com>
Message-ID: <3BD882DC-BAD6-11D7-9D97-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

The challenge will be  that these images are not in stacks but on disk 
and the duplication recognition tool reads them, fortunately they are 
small.... I have yet to test the thoughtful options you all have given, 
but also,  that the duplicates are not copies of some other images done 
by copying the file. It is a second processed image e.g.:

_ Take hi-resolution image A from camera and store in archive I.

_ Process hi-resolution image A from archive and process with Image 
ready to small jpg: call it image B then  Store in archive II

_  later (let's say a month or more) someone else goes into Archive I, 
finds image A again and it is processed a second time, using exactly 
the same parameters, scale and jpg quality, to a small image, call it 
image C and stored in Archive II with a different file name.

OK now image B and C will look exactly the same on screen, but to what 
extent their binary data will be a precise match, given that they were 
processed at different times, even though they came from the same 
original... we will see.


On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 05:35  PM, Vikram Singh wrote:

> From: Vikram Singh <vikramsingh at mailandnews.com>
> Date: Sat Jul 19, 2003  5:35:27  PM Pacific/Honolulu
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: RE: Image recognition tool
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
> Siva,
>
> I think if you use md5digest it may give you what you want.
>
> Regards
> Vikram
>
>> ===== Original Message From Sannyasin Sivakatirswami 
>> <katir at hindu.org> =====
>> Probably too much to ask... but does anyone think that there would a
>> way for revolution to determine if one image was a duplicated of
>> another? I mean, not by file name but from the image data itself?
>>
>>
>> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
>> Himalayan Academy Publications
>> at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
>> katir at hindu.org
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Sun Jul 20 12:28:01 2003
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Sun Jul 20 12:28:01 2003
Subject: Basic question - how to use a variable to refer to an object (button)
Message-ID: <000b01c34ee3$5556f210$8c4e6351@home>

Hi All,

I am sure this is a very basic question but I cannot find it anywhere..

How can I refer to a button by name using a variable?

I know I can .. ' set the property of button x to...' where x is the ID
number of the button, but I cannot seem to reference its name.
I have tried .. button quote & name & quote but this gives an error, same
with.... button variable  where variable is the name.

I'm sure its really simple but I can't find it in the electronic docs. The
card I have has rather a lot of buttons and there IDs are not in the logical
order so I can't easily use that approach (a bit of bad planning on
reflection!).

Thanks for any help
Steve King
(Newbie Home user)





From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Jul 20 12:40:01 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Sun Jul 20 12:40:01 2003
Subject: Basic question - how to use a variable to refer to an object (button)
Message-ID: <200307201732.NAA09900@bright.unitz.ca>

the following code worked fine for me:

  on mouseUp
    local tButtonName
    put "bob" into tButtonName
    set the label of button tButtonName to "hello"
  end mouseUp

i had 2 buttons, one named "bob" and the other was just a
generic "new button".. clicking the generic button would
change the label of button "bob"..

is there something else that you were looking to do?


----- Original Message Follows -----
> How can I refer to a button by name using a variable?


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Jul 20 13:01:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sun Jul 20 13:01:01 2003
Subject: closestackrequest
In-Reply-To: <B53384D8-BAB3-11D7-A0CD-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <266D12F6-BADB-11D7-A244-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le dimanche, 20 juil 2003, ? 15:11 Europe/Brussels, Klaus Major a ?crit 
:

> Bonjour Yves,
>
>>> ...
>>> on closestackrequest
>>>   ##  nothing here :-)
>>> end closestackrequest
>>>
>>> will never let the window close ;-)
>>
>> Hi Klaus,
>>
>> with such a script, how can we quit ???
>
> Jamais :-)
>
>> if you write a code
>> quit
>> il will close the stack
>> but if the stack cannot close ????
>
> If you have a "closestackrequest" handler you will have to
> "pass closestackrequest" in order to close/quit.
>
>

thank you Klaus

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be

Salutations.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jul 20 13:03:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun Jul 20 13:03:00 2003
Subject: time-limited security
In-Reply-To: <BB3F62FF.30F74%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BB4025A8.30FCA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

I've avoided copy-protection schemes based on limited-time demos because
it's usually not too hard to find where the timeout info is stored and just
alter/delete it.

But now I have a need for such a scheme, but no confidence in any of the
methods I've found thus far.

Do any of you rely on time limits for your demos?  If so, how do you store
your timeout data in a way that won't be reset easily?

Feel free to reply privately if you prefer....

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From katir at hindu.org  Sun Jul 20 13:18:03 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun Jul 20 13:18:03 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
In-Reply-To: <BB3F5AF7.30F6F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <97FA94F4-BADD-11D7-9D97-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

OK test completed:

take  image A  and process with the same droplet in imageReady at 
different times, resulting in img1 and img2, not really exact dups of 
each other but "identical offspring" of the same source image.

this does not work:

   --  answer file "choose the first image"
   --  put url ("binfile:" & it) into tFirstImage
   --  answer file "choose the second image"
   --  put url ("binfile:" & it) into tSecondmage
   --  put (the md5Digest of tFirstImage) into tCheckDigest
   --  put cr & (the md5Digest of tSecondImage) after  
tTestMd5DigestMatch
   --  put tTestMd5DigestMatch

This works!

on mouseup
   lock screen
   answer file "choose the first image"
   set the filename of image img1 to it
   answer file "choose the second image"
   set the filename of image img2 to it
   if (the imagedata of image img1) = (the imagedata of image img2) then
       answer "Yes, they are dups!"
   else
     answer "Not a match"
   end if
end mouseup

So it appears I will have to load all the images, 1 by 1... load image 
1, load images 2-N of fileList, checking each one against image 1, if 
not a match then move on to image 2... but it should run fast with lock 
screen and a repeat for each deleting each line from the file list that 
is unique as we go...

also, ( different issue) for some reason I have never been able to get 
this to work properly either..

answer file "choose the first image"
put url ("binfile:" & it) into tFirstImage
set the imagedata  of image "anyImage" to tFirstImage

although the docs indicate it should work. Of course, "import" does the 
same job...

On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 05:30  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>> Probably too much to ask... but does anyone think that there would a
>> way for revolution to determine if one image was a duplicated of
>> another? I mean, not by file name but from the image data itself?
>
> Does this do it?:
>
> if the imagedata of img 1 <> the imagedata of img 2 then...
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 20 13:40:04 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 20 13:40:04 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
In-Reply-To: <3F1AEA32@mailandnews.com>
Message-ID: <A91ABFB8-BAE0-11D7-9CF4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 10:47 PM, Vikram Singh wrote:

> It will also allow you (after formatting) to maintain a list of human 
> readable
> chunks of characters without necessarily maintaining the corresponding 
> image
> in that environment (eg that image may be in one of many substacks 
> which are
> not open). You can then compare the correspondingly formatted 
> md5digest of
> incoming images with the list to know if a copy exists. I think 
> searching
> through a few thousand lines will take less than a few seconds! Isnt 
> rev
> powerful?

This is a very good idea.  To find a duplicate among n images will take 
n*(n-1)/2 comparisons.  Comparing the md5 will be much faster.  This 
will work either on binary files or on imageData() & alphaData() & 
formatedWidth().

You might even speed that up by sorting the md5 and looking that up or 
by using arrays.

Dar Scott



From vikramsingh at mailandnews.com  Sun Jul 20 13:42:00 2003
From: vikramsingh at mailandnews.com (Vikram Singh)
Date: Sun Jul 20 13:42:00 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
Message-ID: <3F1BC1FA@mailandnews.com>

on mouseUp
  answer file "choose the first image"
  put url ("binfile:" & it) into tFirstImage
  put (the md5Digest of tFirstImage) into tCheckDigest1
  answer file "choose the second image"
  put url ("binfile:" & it) into tSecondmage
  put (the md5Digest of tFirstImage) into tCheckDigest2
  put tcheckdigest1 &cr& tcheckdigest2
  if tCheckDigest1 is tCheckDigest2 then answer "They Match!"

  -- put cr & (the md5Digest of tSecondImage) after tTestMd5DigestMatch
  --put tTestMd5DigestMatch
  
end mouseUp

Works here.

Regards

Vikram



>===== Original Message From Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> =====
>OK test completed:
>
>take  image A  and process with the same droplet in imageReady at
>different times, resulting in img1 and img2, not really exact dups of
>each other but "identical offspring" of the same source image.
>
>this does not work:
>
>   --  answer file "choose the first image"
>   --  put url ("binfile:" & it) into tFirstImage
>   --  answer file "choose the second image"
>   --  put url ("binfile:" & it) into tSecondmage
>   --  put (the md5Digest of tFirstImage) into tCheckDigest
>   --  put cr & (the md5Digest of tSecondImage) after
>tTestMd5DigestMatch
>   --  put tTestMd5DigestMatch
>
>This works!
>
>on mouseup
>   lock screen
>   answer file "choose the first image"
>   set the filename of image img1 to it
>   answer file "choose the second image"
>   set the filename of image img2 to it
>   if (the imagedata of image img1) = (the imagedata of image img2) then
>       answer "Yes, they are dups!"
>   else
>     answer "Not a match"
>   end if
>end mouseup
>
>So it appears I will have to load all the images, 1 by 1... load image
>1, load images 2-N of fileList, checking each one against image 1, if
>not a match then move on to image 2... but it should run fast with lock
>screen and a repeat for each deleting each line from the file list that
>is unique as we go...
>
>also, ( different issue) for some reason I have never been able to get
>this to work properly either..
>
>answer file "choose the first image"
>put url ("binfile:" & it) into tFirstImage
>set the imagedata  of image "anyImage" to tFirstImage
>
>although the docs indicate it should work. Of course, "import" does the
>same job...
>
>On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 05:30  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>>
>>> Probably too much to ask... but does anyone think that there would a
>>> way for revolution to determine if one image was a duplicated of
>>> another? I mean, not by file name but from the image data itself?
>>
>> Does this do it?:
>>
>> if the imagedata of img 1 <> the imagedata of img 2 then...
>>
>> --
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>>  ___________________________________________________________
>>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 20 13:45:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 20 13:45:00 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
In-Reply-To: <97FA94F4-BADD-11D7-9D97-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <3FF5EEEE-BAE1-11D7-9CF4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> on mouseup
>   lock screen
>   answer file "choose the first image"
>   set the filename of image img1 to it
>   answer file "choose the second image"
>   set the filename of image img2 to it
>   if (the imagedata of image img1) = (the imagedata of image img2) then
>       answer "Yes, they are dups!"
>   else
>     answer "Not a match"
>   end if
> end mouseup

If the images are of the same form, then maybe you can just compare the  
binary files.

If they have transparent or translucent parts, then imageData() might  
be insufficient.  If they are solid colors, then imageData() will match  
a 7X11 image to an 11X7 image.

Also, Vikram's idea of using md5 is really cool.

Dar Scott


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jul 20 13:52:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun Jul 20 13:52:01 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
In-Reply-To: <97FA94F4-BADD-11D7-9D97-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <BB4030FB.30FD7%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> this does not work:
> 
> --  answer file "choose the first image"
> --  put url ("binfile:" & it) into tFirstImage
> --  answer file "choose the second image"
> --  put url ("binfile:" & it) into tSecondmage
> --  put (the md5Digest of tFirstImage) into tCheckDigest
> --  put cr & (the md5Digest of tSecondImage) after
> tTestMd5DigestMatch
> --  put tTestMd5DigestMatch

What is the error?

Does it work if you use the standard parenthetical function form?:

 put md5Digest(tFirstImage) into tCheckDigest


-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From vikramsingh at mailandnews.com  Sun Jul 20 14:16:00 2003
From: vikramsingh at mailandnews.com (Vikram Singh)
Date: Sun Jul 20 14:16:00 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
Message-ID: <3F1BDBA6@mailandnews.com>

The last post of mine is not quite right.

Later
Vikram


>on mouseUp
 > answer file "choose the first image"
 > put url ("binfile:" & it) into tFirstImage
 > put (the md5Digest of tFirstImage) into tCheckDigest1
 > answer file "choose the second image"
 > put url ("binfile:" & it) into tSecondmage
 > put (the md5Digest of tFirstImage) into tCheckDigest2
 > put tcheckdigest1 &cr& tcheckdigest2
 > if tCheckDigest1 is tCheckDigest2 then answer "They Match!"

  -- put cr & (the md5Digest of tSecondImage) after tTestMd5DigestMatch
  --put tTestMd5DigestMatch

>end mouseUp

> Works here.

>Regards

>Vikram



>===== Original Message From Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> =====
>OK test completed:
>
>take  image A  and process with the same droplet in imageReady at
>different times, resulting in img1 and img2, not really exact dups of
>each other but "identical offspring" of the same source image.
>
>this does not work:
>
>   --  answer file "choose the first image"
>   --  put url ("binfile:" & it) into tFirstImage
>   --  answer file "choose the second image"
>   --  put url ("binfile:" & it) into tSecondmage
>   --  put (the md5Digest of tFirstImage) into tCheckDigest
>   --  put cr & (the md5Digest of tSecondImage) after
>tTestMd5DigestMatch
>   --  put tTestMd5DigestMatch
>
>This works!
>
>on mouseup
>   lock screen
>   answer file "choose the first image"
>   set the filename of image img1 to it
>   answer file "choose the second image"
>   set the filename of image img2 to it
>   if (the imagedata of image img1) = (the imagedata of image img2) then
>       answer "Yes, they are dups!"
>   else
>     answer "Not a match"
>   end if
>end mouseup
>
>So it appears I will have to load all the images, 1 by 1... load image
>1, load images 2-N of fileList, checking each one against image 1, if
>not a match then move on to image 2... but it should run fast with lock
>screen and a repeat for each deleting each line from the file list that
>is unique as we go...
>
>also, ( different issue) for some reason I have never been able to get
>this to work properly either..
>
>answer file "choose the first image"
>put url ("binfile:" & it) into tFirstImage
>set the imagedata  of image "anyImage" to tFirstImage
>
>although the docs indicate it should work. Of course, "import" does the
>same job...
>
>On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 05:30  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>>
>>> Probably too much to ask... but does anyone think that there would a
>>> way for revolution to determine if one image was a duplicated of
>>> another? I mean, not by file name but from the image data itself?
>>
>> Does this do it?:
>>
>> if the imagedata of img 1 <> the imagedata of img 2 then...
>>
>> --
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>>  ___________________________________________________________
>>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jul 20 14:39:14 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun Jul 20 14:39:14 2003
Subject: RevNet update
Message-ID: <BB403C09.30FE1%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

RevNet has been updated with info on revJournal, including the addition of a
new section that downloads and displays headlines and article summaries from
the revJournal server.

For Rev 2.0 users, just select Development->Plugins->GoRevNet

Users of earlier Rev versions and MetaCard users who don't yet have the
GoRevNet plugin can download it from from the Fourth World Revolution
Embassy at:  <http://www.fourthworld.com/rev/>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From katir at hindu.org  Sun Jul 20 15:26:03 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun Jul 20 15:26:03 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
In-Reply-To: <BB4030FB.30FD7%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <756393FA-BAEF-11D7-9D97-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

oops.. I didn't have that posted quite like i was doing it... here 
Vikram's solution with your  suggested parenthetical function notation:

on mouseup
   answer file "choose the first image"
   put url ("binfile:" & it) into tFirstImage
   answer file "choose the second image"
   put url ("binfile:" & it) into tSecondmage
   put  md5Digest(tFirstImage) into tCheckDigestImg1
   put md5Digest(tSecondImage) into  tCheckDigestImg2
   if tCheckDigestImg1 = tCheckDigestImg2 then answer "Match!"
end mouseup

this still doesn't work... both cases fail:

a) case where the two images were separately processed to the exact 
same specs from a hi-res source (used same ImageReady droplet to make a 
thumbnail) and
b) case where I did a finder copy of image the first image (OSX) such 
that the second image should indeed be the exact same binary data of 
its source.

The md5digest of a binary data file doesn't appear to work. So far, 
seems the images have to be loaded to the card first, then check the 
image data and this does work for both a) and b) above....which is very 
doable for each loop process on a G4 dual processor work station (not 
my powerbook) and come back later.. (dups would be tagged or move to to 
another directory by script) to check -- (real world example: -- 20 
incoming images against an already existing archive of 500 plus images. 
  We also can't to a preliminary triage with file names (which would be 
lightening fast) as

DSCN0002.JPG  ## hi res source
DSCN0002-01.jpg ## first thumbnail output with droplet
DSCN0002-02.jpg  ## second thumbnail output with same droplet
DSCN0002-02 copy.jpg ## finder copy of above file.

are all the same image, but a month later a file by the same name

DSCN0002.JPG  might come in from a different camera and be a completely 
different image.

So, we have a solution, but its not very "run time" like you see on the 
TV shows where some intelligence agency is scanning a photo against a 
data base of photos for a match..  all in the blink of an eye -- can 
you  believe that stuff... ;-)

but anything has got to be better than (very tedious and unproductive 
routine:) dragging all the images into an iView catalog and, by eye, 
trying to spot dups...then sending those to the trash.

--Sivakatirswami





On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 08:43  AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> Date: Sun Jul 20, 2003  8:43:55  AM Pacific/Honolulu
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Image recognition tool
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>> this does not work:
>>
>> --  answer file "choose the first image"
>> --  put url ("binfile:" & it) into tFirstImage
>> --  answer file "choose the second image"
>> --  put url ("binfile:" & it) into tSecondmage
>> --  put (the md5Digest of tFirstImage) into tCheckDigest
>> --  put cr & (the md5Digest of tSecondImage) after
>> tTestMd5DigestMatch
>> --  put tTestMd5DigestMatch
>
> What is the error?
>
> Does it work if you use the standard parenthetical function form?:
>
>  put md5Digest(tFirstImage) into tCheckDigest



From edgore at shinra.com  Sun Jul 20 15:31:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Sun Jul 20 15:31:01 2003
Subject: time-limited security
References: <BB4025A8.30FCA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <002801c34efc$d2112550$6701a8c0@ed>

I'm not using it for time-limiting, but with Amazon Assistant I am
experimenting with storing registration data on my server, and then having
the program check that file when the user tries to make certain changes in
the program (mainly when attempting to alter the Associate ID the program
uses to create pages).

You might be able to do something where you hash together a couple of
attributes about a particular machine, then have your program write that to
a file on a internet server, along with the start data/end date whatever for
the trial, and then check that file at startup or something.

I assume you want this to work cross-platform, correct?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: "Rev Discussion List" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:55 AM
Subject: time-limited security


>
> I've avoided copy-protection schemes based on limited-time demos because
> it's usually not too hard to find where the timeout info is stored and
just
> alter/delete it.
>
> But now I have a need for such a scheme, but no confidence in any of the
> methods I've found thus far.
>
> Do any of you rely on time limits for your demos?  If so, how do you store
> your timeout data in a way that won't be reset easily?
>
> Feel free to reply privately if you prefer....
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jul 20 15:43:02 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun Jul 20 15:43:02 2003
Subject: time-limited security
In-Reply-To: <002801c34efc$d2112550$6701a8c0@ed>
Message-ID: <BB404B19.30FF1%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Edwin Gore wrote:

> I'm not using it for time-limiting, but with Amazon Assistant I am
> experimenting with storing registration data on my server, and then having
> the program check that file when the user tries to make certain changes in
> the program (mainly when attempting to alter the Associate ID the program
> uses to create pages).
> 
> You might be able to do something where you hash together a couple of
> attributes about a particular machine, then have your program write that to
> a file on a internet server, along with the start data/end date whatever for
> the trial, and then check that file at startup or something.
> 
> I assume you want this to work cross-platform, correct?

Yep.  The "phone home" option is looking more attractive the more I think
this through.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Sun Jul 20 15:51:01 2003
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Sun Jul 20 15:51:01 2003
Subject: Basic question - how to use a variable to refer to an object (button) -Thanks
Message-ID: <000b01c34eff$a5f41650$8c4e6351@home>

Hi,

Thanks for the info - it sort of backed up my own thoughts so thats really
useful in telling me I'm on the right track.

I found the specific problem though  its a little more subtle, it seems that
you can't label a button with a number and do this sort of thing.
Unfortunately this is exactly what I did! The program is for swimming lap
analaysis and so I just used a number as the label for lap select buttons.

I found this by using text labels (as in your example) then going back to my
numbers. As you say,  works fine with text, but apparently not with a
number.

So, problem sorted now (just 60 buttons to re label!) and I feel much more
confident that I know how to use the Object.

many thanks for the guidance
Steve

PS coming from VB/VBA, I'm finding rev a bit 'different' while I'm waiting
for my hard manuals to come through.

------------------------------------------------------
>the following code worked fine for me:
>
> on mouseUp
>    local tButtonName
>    put "bob" into tButtonName
>    set the label of button tButtonName to "hello"
>  end mouseUp

>i had 2 buttons, one named "bob" and the other was just >a generic "new
button".. clicking the generic button >would change the label of button
"bob"..
>
>is there something else that you were looking to do?




From vikramsingh at mailandnews.com  Sun Jul 20 16:42:00 2003
From: vikramsingh at mailandnews.com (Vikram Singh)
Date: Sun Jul 20 16:42:00 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
Message-ID: <3F1B51FE@mailandnews.com>

Namaste Siva

Comparing the md5Digests of the imagedata of two images seems to produce 
expected results. So maybe you could just set the filename of an image to the 
path of the new file and then work on it.


>this still doesn't work... both cases fail:

Regards

Vikram



From ttasovac at Princeton.EDU  Sun Jul 20 17:30:00 2003
From: ttasovac at Princeton.EDU (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Sun Jul 20 17:30:00 2003
Subject: rtf and unicode
In-Reply-To: <BB403C09.30FE1%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <67339A5B-BB00-11D7-83A2-0003937B95F4@princeton.edu>

 From the Transcript Dictionary:

"Getting the RTFText property reports a string consisting of the text 
of the field (or chunk of a field), with any font, size, style, and 
color properties embedded in the text in the form of RTF control words. 
Unicode text is supported."

How exactly is Unicode supported with RTF in Revolution?  I would like 
to save a UTF-8 encoded RTF file -- but simply putting the rtfText of 
field "suchandsuch" to url "blahblah"  produces garbage if the field 
"suchandsuch" contains Unicode text.

Any hints would be appreciated.

All best,

Toma



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Jul 20 17:51:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun Jul 20 17:51:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307200800.EAA18654@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB406A36.1DFA%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello Pierre,

> Subject: Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing
> From: Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr>
> Date: 19 Jul 2003 17:12:09 +0200
 
> On the other side, i believe that it will always be more difficult to
> get reasonable financial success in developing apps dedicated to non
> professional markets.
----------
I must respectfully disagree. Educational markets are, and have always been,
a viable market for both apps and xCard dev tools. Rev offers a great way to
offer both at the same time. Teachers and learning institutions can quickly
develop their own custom in-house apps and courseware, while at the same
time offering viable tools for students to learn base-to-expert programming
techniques.

All those young-uns will end up with the ability to make better decisions on
direction and goals, whether they decide on using primitives or go ahead
with hi-level RAD tools.

If the latter, it will be good for Rev to know there is a future user-base,
and for the graduates to know the tools they learned on are growing with
them.

Ken N.



From edgore at shinra.com  Sun Jul 20 18:07:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Sun Jul 20 18:07:01 2003
Subject: Revolution/Evolution
References: <BB4025A8.30FCA%ambassador@fourthworld.com> <002801c34efc$d2112550$6701a8c0@ed>
Message-ID: <002901c34f12$8f1353c0$6701a8c0@ed>

Maybe the low-end, often poor apps,  splash-screened product should have a
different name to differentiate it in the marketplace (and the minds of
clients) from the higher end, probably more professional, non splash screen
(but acknowledgement in the about box) version.

Maybe call the low end version "Runtime Evolution" and the higher end
version "Runtime Revolution Studio" and Runtime Revolution Enterprise".

Just thinking out loud here...



From jtenny at willamette.edu  Sun Jul 20 18:46:00 2003
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Sun Jul 20 18:46:00 2003
Subject: stopping a send/repeat loop?
In-Reply-To: <200307201841.OAA11284@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EF0FEEEE-BB0A-11D7-B710-000393911676@willamette.edu>

First, thanks for all the encouragement. Must have been having a bad 
beard day.

Working on a timer where there are two clocks. Clicking on timer 1 
starts it and display no of seconds and % of total time; clicking on 
timer 2 stops the first timer and starts it own set of displays. 
Clicking back on timer 1 stops timer B and restarts timer 1.

Only it doesn't. I'm sure it simpler than this. Sometimes I can get one 
clock working, but the second button won't stop it. The following 
script, although they appear similar to me, get stopped by the debug 
mechanism at different points. I kinda had more success with 
switch/case, but could never get the first timer to stop when clicking 
the button for the second timer.

Anyway: -------------------Timer 1----------------
--this is off task button 1093
global passingtime1,passingtime2,passingtime3,gswitch
set the numberFormat to "0."
on mouseup
    send CountDown to me in 1 secs
end mouseup
------------
on CountDown
   put false into gswitch
   repeat until gswitch = true
     add 1 to passingtime2--timer no. 2
     put passingtime2 into cd fld "b1f2x"--display timer 2
     add 1 to passingtime3--total time both timers
     put passingtime3 into cd fld "b1f3x"--disply total time
     put (passingtime2/passingtime3*100) &  "% off task" into cd fld 
"b1f3"
         -- % time off task
     put (100-(passingtime2/passingtime3*100)) &  "% on task" into cd 
fld "b1f2"
         -- % time on task
   end repeat
  end countdown
----------------end of timer 1-----------------

-----------------timer 2-----------------
--this is on task button 1092

global passingtime1,passingtime2,passingtime3,gswitch
set the numberFormat to "0."
on mouseup
    send "CountDown" to me in 1 secs
end mouseup
------------
on CountDown
   put true into gswitch
   repeat until gswitch = false
     add 1 to passingtime1 -- timer no 1
     put passingtime1 into cd fld "b1f1x" -- display time 1
     add 1 to passingtime3 -- total time both timers
     put passingtime3 into cd fld "b1f3x" --display total time
     put (passingtime1/passingtime3*100) & "% on task" into cd fld "b1f2"
         -- % time on task
     put (100-(passingtime1/passingtime3*100)) & "% off task" into cd 
fld "b1f3"
         -- % time off task
   end repeat
end CountDown
------------------end of timer 2---------------

Hope you can help. My head hurts, my eyes won't focus, and I have to go 
to the bathroom really bad.

John



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 20 19:13:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 20 19:13:01 2003
Subject: stopping a send/repeat loop?
In-Reply-To: <EF0FEEEE-BB0A-11D7-B710-000393911676@willamette.edu>
Message-ID: <12A9C171-BB0F-11D7-9CF4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

Here is a start...

> -------------------Timer 1----------------
> --this is off task button 1093
> global passingtime1,passingtime2,passingtime3,gswitch
> set the numberFormat to "0."
> on mouseup
>    send CountDown to me in 1 secs
      put false into gswitch
> end mouseup
> ------------
> on CountDown
    if gswitch then
>     add 1 to passingtime2--timer no. 2
>     put passingtime2 into cd fld "b1f2x"--display timer 2
>     add 1 to passingtime3--total time both timers
>     put passingtime3 into cd fld "b1f3x"--disply total time
>     put (passingtime2/passingtime3*100) &  "% off task" into cd fld 
> "b1f3"
>         -- % time off task
>     put (100-(passingtime2/passingtime3*100)) &  "% on task" into cd 
> fld "b1f2"
>         -- % time on task
       send CountDown to me in ??? secs
end if
>  end countdown
> ----------------end of timer 1-----------------

This is not quite there, because it is possible to get more than one 
cycle started, but it should give you the flavor of the way to go.

Dar Scott



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Jul 20 19:18:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Sun Jul 20 19:18:01 2003
Subject: agenda
In-Reply-To: <1030720204101.3f1a71bd.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.83384@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <A57E118A-BB0F-11D7-8162-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Here is the problem:
>   convert dataini from shortdate to seconds
put a space between "short" and "date" and it will be able to do the 
conversion and make your cards. At least it works for me with that one 
change :-)

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

P.S. My calendar stack that Ubaldo mentions is just a variation of my 
existing stack that allows you to specify whether weeks start on Monday 
or Sunday and also allows you to set up a list of holidays to be 
hilited. As soon as I get it tidied up and with a better interface for 
entering holiday dates, I will put it on my web site.

On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 08:41  pm, Dottor Zivago wrote:

> Hi and nice weekend toeverybody,
> I am trying now to create a little agenda.
> I need a button that creates a number of cards whose name is a date.
> I have put a script like this and it works
>
> on mouseup
>   set the usesystemdate to true
>   put the short date into data
>   repeat with i=1 to 3
>     convert data from short date to seconds
>     put data + (60 * 60 * 24 )*i into giorno
>     convert giorno to long date
>     create card giorno
>   end repeat
> end mouseup
> It creates 3 cards from today's date
>
> Now I would like to create a x number of cards from a x date
> This is my GREAT script:
> on mouseup
>   set the usesystemdate to true
>   ask "Insert start date"
>   put it into dataini
>   ask "Insert number od days to create"
>   put it into giorni
>   repeat with i=1 to giorni
>   convert dataini from shortdate to seconds
>   put dataini + (60 * 60 * 24 )*i into giorno
>   convert giorno to short date
>   create card giorno
>   end repeat
> end mouseup
> It DOESN'T work
>
> Better stop and play the guitar now :-(((
> Any help greatly appreciated
> Ciao
> Ubaldo
>
> PS a public thank you to Sarah who has been so kind to mail me her nice
> calendar stack :-)




From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 20 19:46:03 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 20 19:46:03 2003
Subject: stopping a send/repeat loop?
In-Reply-To: <EF0FEEEE-BB0A-11D7-B710-000393911676@willamette.edu>
Message-ID: <C58C2A34-BB13-11D7-9CF4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 05:36 PM, John Tenny wrote:

> Only it doesn't. I'm sure it simpler than this. Sometimes I can get 
> one clock working, but the second button won't stop it.

Here's more while you are pondering the earlier mail.

While you are getting the hang of this, work with just one timer.

There are a few issues here.  One is starting and stopping the send 
cycle (I call it a simple message machine).  The other is dealing with 
drift because of delays in executing the message.  A third is where 
setting numberFormat goes.

Three approaches to starting and stopping cycles:
1.  Use a state variable that has running, stopped and winding-down 
state
2.  Use a state variable with empty for stopped and the message ID for 
running
3.  Stop by name using pendingMessages() even before starting

I don't think #1 will work well for you because some folks might click 
fast.  Let's go with # 2.

Here is a pattern that should work for you.

local timer1ID
constant timer1Period = "1.0"

on startTimer
   stopTimer  -- alternately exit if timer1ID is not empty
   send "countDown" to me in 0 secs -- or timer1Period secs depending...
   put the result into timer1ID
end startTimer

on stopTimer
   cancel timer1ID
   put empty into timer1Id
end stopTimer

on countDown
   doTimer1Stuff  -- set the numberFormat in here
   send countDown to me in timer1Period
   put the result into timer1ID
end countDown

Put this in the card script for now.  Set up buttons that connect call 
startTimer and stopTimer respectively.

Play with that.  Watch pending messages with the message box.

To expand to two timers, add scripts in the card for timer 2, but both 
stops in the stop button, but start of one and stop of the other in the 
two start buttons.  Move scripts later to, say, field or timer group.

Concerning drift...  It won't be bad for the tests, but when things get 
active or long, try remembering the seconds at the start and then 
subtracting that from the seconds at the display time.

I didn't look at the code in the bulk of your timer counting and 
display.

I hope this points you in the right direction.

Dar Scott






From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Sun Jul 20 20:23:03 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Sun Jul 20 20:23:03 2003
Subject: Disappear script editors
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D59@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

I switch apps through the task bar and when I return to Revolution, the
script editor is always hidden behind the stack window.  (The script editor
window does show in the Revolution Window menu.)   I am not hitting Return
or Enter or Alt-Tab.  I am on Windows 2000.  It is a two click operation...I
am in the script editor, click on a (say) Note Pad document in the taskbar,
and immediately click back on the stack button in the taskbar, and the
script editor is gone.

It is behavior that is completely unintuitive and am assuming it is
something in my settings or operations.  But kick me in the teeth if I know
what.

Mark


This never happens to me either...

Is it possible you are hitting the Return key? Hitting return will 
apply the changes in the script editor, and hitting Return again will 
close the script editor.

If you look in the Window menu in Revolution- is the script editor open 
& just hidden by another window?

What version of Windows are you running? How are you switching apps? 
task bar, Alt-Tab, something else?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Jul 20 21:21:02 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun Jul 20 21:21:02 2003
Subject: Magnifier (script!)
In-Reply-To: <200307201601.MAA04399@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB409BC0.1E02%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Yves,

> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 10:56:20 +0200
> Subject: Re: Magnifier (script!)
> From: Yves COPPE <yvescoppe at skynet.be>

> the rect of img 1 is "30,20,330,220"
> 
> i'd like that when  the user click on the image, the image is zoomed in
> and when the user option-click the image zooms out
> AND when the user zooms in, the zoom happens on the img where the user
> has clicked.
> Is it possible ?
----------
Shoot the image (importSnapshot) in a rectangle under the mouse, and then
expand (width and height) the image as desired. Lock and unlock the screen
as needed.

Or, you could make it a QTVR movie, put it into a player window, and use the
"zoom" command.

HTH,
Ken N.



From katir at hindu.org  Sun Jul 20 22:03:03 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun Jul 20 22:03:03 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
In-Reply-To: <3F1B51FE@mailandnews.com>
Message-ID: <E4C2594C-BB26-11D7-8BCC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Namaste, Vikram:

right:

On mouseup
   lock screen
   answer file "choose the first image"
   set the filename of image img1 to it
   answer file "choose the second image"
   set the filename of image img2 to it
if md5Digest(the imagedata of image img1) = md5Digest(the imagedata of 
image img2) then answer "Match!"

--  if (the imagedata of image img1) = (the imagedata of image img2) 
then answer "Match!"

end mouseUp

the latter two options return the same result. But one is not sure how 
using the md5Digest at this point gets us anywhere faster.. the 
overhead of loading the images into the cards is there already. I could 
see possibly storing the md5Digest of all the images in a directory in 
advance in a separate file (array) and then checking incoming images 
against that instead of loading each of 500 images in the archive for 
each incoming image....

Sivakatirswami




On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 11:32  AM, Vikram Singh wrote:

> From: Vikram Singh <vikramsingh at mailandnews.com>
> Date: Sun Jul 20, 2003  11:32:49  AM Pacific/Honolulu
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Image recognition tool
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
> Namaste Siva
>
> Comparing the md5Digests of the imagedata of two images seems to 
> produce
> expected results. So maybe you could just set the filename of an image 
> to the
> path of the new file and then work on it.
>
>
>> this still doesn't work... both cases fail:
>
> Regards
>
> Vikram



From bornstein at designeq.com  Sun Jul 20 22:36:01 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Sun Jul 20 22:36:01 2003
Subject: Disappear script editors
Message-ID: <200307210329.h6L3TBiY024345@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>

>I switch apps through the task bar and when I return to Revolution, the
>script editor is always hidden behind the stack window.  (The script editor
>window does show in the Revolution Window menu.)   I am not hitting Return
>or Enter or Alt-Tab.  I am on Windows 2000.  It is a two click operation...I
>am in the script editor, click on a (say) Note Pad document in the taskbar,
>and immediately click back on the stack button in the taskbar, and the
>script editor is gone.

Mark,

I just verified that the same thing happens on my Windows 2000 system. 
The script editor isn't really gone but is placed behind the stack.

If you leave the script editor visible somewhere on your screen, you can 
just click in it to get back into Rev with your editor showing, rather 
than using the taskbar to get back to Rev.

That's the way I do it.

Regards,

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 20 23:19:03 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 20 23:19:03 2003
Subject: Image recognition tool
In-Reply-To: <E4C2594C-BB26-11D7-8BCC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <8263037E-BB31-11D7-9CF4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 08:56 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> the latter two options return the same result. But one is not sure how 
> using the md5Digest at this point gets us anywhere faster.. the 
> overhead of loading the images into the cards is there already. I 
> could see possibly storing the md5Digest of all the images in a 
> directory in advance in a separate file (array) and then checking 
> incoming images against that instead of loading each of 500 images in 
> the archive for each incoming image....

Yes.  You only have to take the md5 digest once per image.

Dar Scott



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sun Jul 20 23:36:03 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Jul 20 23:36:03 2003
Subject: Disappear script editors
In-Reply-To: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D59@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
Message-ID: <E8B99B20-BB33-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 07:15  PM, Mark Powell wrote:

> I switch apps through the task bar and when I return to Revolution, the
> script editor is always hidden behind the stack window.  (The script 
> editor
> window does show in the Revolution Window menu.)   I am not hitting 
> Return
> or Enter or Alt-Tab.  I am on Windows 2000.  It is a two click 
> operation...I
> am in the script editor, click on a (say) Note Pad document in the 
> taskbar,
> and immediately click back on the stack button in the taskbar, and the
> script editor is gone.
>
> It is behavior that is completely unintuitive and am assuming it is
> something in my settings or operations.  But kick me in the teeth if I 
> know
> what.
>
OK, so the script editor is not gone it's just behind another window.

The Window menu has a shortcut Control-`  for "send window to back"

On Windows 2K I can get to the script editor that way. Use the task bar 
or Alt-tab to return to Revolution then I hit Control-` once or twice 
until the script editor is in the foreground.

I don't think this is really a bug, you were just expecting the Rev 
windows to behave differently. There are probably other users who would 
expect their stack window, or the application browser, or the 
properties inspector to be in the foreground :-)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Sun Jul 20 23:41:02 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Sun Jul 20 23:41:02 2003
Subject: Disappear script editors
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D5A@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

Hi Howard:
Thanks for the sanity check!  It isn't just me!  I will try your suggestion,
but am sure that it will prompt me to finally insist that my management
installed a second monitor for me.  Having a two (or three!) monitor setup
is vital with Director and Photoshop type apps and it is proving to be the
same with Revolution.
Thanks all for the help.
--Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Bornstein [mailto:bornstein at designeq.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 8:29 PM

>I switch apps through the task bar and when I return to Revolution, the
>script editor is always hidden behind the stack window.  (The script editor
>window does show in the Revolution Window menu.)   I am not hitting Return
>or Enter or Alt-Tab.  I am on Windows 2000.  It is a two click
operation...I
>am in the script editor, click on a (say) Note Pad document in the taskbar,
>and immediately click back on the stack button in the taskbar, and the
>script editor is gone.

Mark,

I just verified that the same thing happens on my Windows 2000 system. 
The script editor isn't really gone but is placed behind the stack.

If you leave the script editor visible somewhere on your screen, you can 
just click in it to get back into Rev with your editor showing, rather 
than using the taskbar to get back to Rev.

That's the way I do it.

Regards,

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com




From katir at hindu.org  Sun Jul 20 23:43:01 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun Jul 20 23:43:01 2003
Subject: Magnifier (script!)
In-Reply-To: <BB409BC0.1E02%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <D4B2B86E-BB34-11D7-8BCC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

does this work for you?  (zooms in 10 pixel increments)

local tSizeChange

on mouseup
   if optionkey()="Down" then
     put (-10) into tSizeChange
     changeSize
     exit mouseup
   end if
   put (+10) into tSizeChange
   changeSize
end mouseup

on changeSize
    put (the height of the target/the width of the target) into tRatio
     set the width of  the target to (the width of me +tSizeChange)
     set the height of  the target to (the width of the target * tRatio)
     set the loc of the target to the mouseloc
   end changeSize


On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 01:19  PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Yves,
>
>> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 10:56:20 +0200
>> Subject: Re: Magnifier (script!)
>> From: Yves COPPE <yvescoppe at skynet.be>
>
>> the rect of img 1 is "30,20,330,220"
>>
>> i'd like that when  the user click on the image, the image is zoomed 
>> in
>> and when the user option-click the image zooms out
>> AND when the user zooms in, the zoom happens on the img where the user
>> has clicked.
>> Is it possible ?
> ----------
> Shoot the image (importSnapshot) in a rectangle under the mouse, and 
> then
> expand (width and height) the image as desired. Lock and unlock the 
> screen
> as needed.
>
> Or, you could make it a QTVR movie, put it into a player window, and 
> use the
> "zoom" command.
>
> HTH,
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Mon Jul 21 02:45:00 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Mon Jul 21 02:45:00 2003
Subject: multiple players
In-Reply-To: <BB406A36.1DFA%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BB406A36.1DFA%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <a05200f02bb414810254f@[10.0.1.2]>

I have 12 players on a cd.
I use a repeat to give each of them a filename (so they can display an image).

Is the order in which the players are assigned a filename determined 
by the layer
of the player?

If not, how is it done?

tia

sims

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Jul 21 02:55:02 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon Jul 21 02:55:02 2003
Subject: multiple players
In-Reply-To: <a05200f02bb414810254f@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <BB40E8F4.DC9F%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, sims wrote:

> I have 12 players on a cd.
> I use a repeat to give each of them a filename (so they can display an image).
> 
> Is the order in which the players are assigned a filename determined
> by the layer of the player?

If you refer to the players by number (ie player 1), then yes.

Keep in mind, you can also reference players by name and/or ID, as well as
by number.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Jul 21 02:58:03 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon Jul 21 02:58:03 2003
Subject: Magnifier (script!)
In-Reply-To: <D4B2B86E-BB34-11D7-8BCC-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <1DE7A697-BB50-11D7-89AD-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le lundi, 21 juil 2003, ? 06:36 Europe/Brussels, Sannyasin 
Sivakatirswami a ?crit :

> does this work for you?  (zooms in 10 pixel increments)
>
> local tSizeChange
>
> on mouseup
>   if optionkey()="Down" then
>     put (-10) into tSizeChange
>     changeSize
>     exit mouseup
>   end if
>   put (+10) into tSizeChange
>   changeSize
> end mouseup
>
> on changeSize
>    put (the height of the target/the width of the target) into tRatio
>     set the width of  the target to (the width of me +tSizeChange)
>     set the height of  the target to (the width of the target * tRatio)
>     set the loc of the target to the mouseloc
>   end changeSize
>
>


Hi Sannyasin, Ken and others,

We are very close to a solution but there still remains a problem :

I'd like that the RECT of the target stays at  "30,20,330,220" with the 
zoomed image in that rect.

Can you provide for that ?

Many thanks.


Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Jul 21 03:21:01 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon Jul 21 03:21:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB406A36.1DFA%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BB406A36.1DFA%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <1058775218.14623.7.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Sun, 2003-07-20 at 21:48, Ken Norris wrote:
> Hello Pierre,
> 
> > Subject: Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing
> > From: Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr>
> > Date: 19 Jul 2003 17:12:09 +0200
>  
> > On the other side, i believe that it will always be more difficult to
> > get reasonable financial success in developing apps dedicated to non
> > professional markets.
> ----------
> I must respectfully disagree. Educational markets are, and have always been,
> a viable market for both apps and xCard dev tools. Rev offers a great way to
> offer both at the same time. Teachers and learning institutions can quickly
> develop their own custom in-house apps and courseware, while at the same
> time offering viable tools for students to learn base-to-expert programming
> techniques.
> 
> All those young-uns will end up with the ability to make better decisions on
> direction and goals, whether they decide on using primitives or go ahead
> with hi-level RAD tools.
> 
> If the latter, it will be good for Rev to know there is a future user-base,
> and for the graduates to know the tools they learned on are growing with
> them.
> 
> Ken N.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Hi Ken,

Agreed. Thanks for your input. I hope that the new RunRev price policy
will help to do RR best knowed and used in the french educational
markets too.
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Jul 21 05:41:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon Jul 21 05:41:00 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <BB3E3BF4.1DC1%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BB410FAD.DCB6%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Ken Norris wrote:

>> go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"
>> 
>> Launch the Camouflage stack and then click the Magnify button...
> ----------
> Yes...that's basically it. I'd love to build one for my mom to use for
> reading emails (she has macular degeneration).
> 
> Mind if I take a gander at the scripts?

That's why it's offered as a demo stack... :-)

Note that screen magnification is built into OSX as Universal Access and
might be available under OS9 as CloseView or Easy Access.

Also, you might want to check out the following resource (contains links to
several older Mac accessibility enhancements and link to Screen Magnifiers
Home page):

  http://trace.wisc.edu/world/computer_access/mac/macshare.html

I tried a few of these under OS9 and they still work...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Mon Jul 21 08:10:01 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Mon Jul 21 08:10:01 2003
Subject: Disappear script editors
Message-ID: <200307211302.JAA22289@bright.unitz.ca>

maybe it's because of the style of window that the script
editor is? i know this does happen to me (win95, winxp home,
and win2k pro) so you're not alone..


From jtenny at willamette.edu  Mon Jul 21 09:48:01 2003
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Mon Jul 21 09:48:01 2003
Subject: revolution/evolution
In-Reply-To: <200307210024.UAA21750@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <F9AC91F8-BB88-11D7-9AB1-000393911676@willamette.edu>

I don't think the uninformed viewer would make the distinction between 
the titles below - they'd only see "Runtime".

But for a free/near free play-with-it version a splash screen that says 
just that... "Created by a beginner using the free (or beginner or ??) 
version of Revolution. See out our website for details on this cross 
platform development tool."  would make it clear that it was a 
non-professional creation. And no semi-professional would try to market 
a product with that splash screen on it, but it would provide stumbling 
beginners a tool to explore. If luring in real newbies is a goal, a one 
time, 30 day trial isn't enough, especially  if one is squeezing the 
learning in between other tasks.


On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 05:24  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Maybe the low-end, often poor apps,  splash-screened product should 
> have a
> different name to differentiate it in the marketplace (and the minds of
> clients) from the higher end, probably more professional, non splash 
> screen
> (but acknowledgement in the about box) version.
>
> Maybe call the low end version "Runtime Evolution" and the higher end
> version "Runtime Revolution Studio" and Runtime Revolution Enterprise".

Peace,

    John

Flowing Thought Educational Solutions
503-508-3398



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Mon Jul 21 09:57:03 2003
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Mon Jul 21 09:57:03 2003
Subject: Standalone with extra stacks
Message-ID: <6809C0C6-BB8A-11D7-B885-0030654E23A2@byu.edu>

Have you tried this?

   go to stack "stack #2" in window "stack #1"

This should replace the contents of the window with the stack you're 
going to.

Devin Asay

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 Barry Levine said:

> This may sound strange but I've only been developing single-stack
> standalones. I've used text files to store various params.
>
> I now have to create a three-stack solution; at least, I think three
> stacks is the proper design. I'd appreciate any advice  regarding the
> project as I describe it below:
>
> Stack #1: Splash screen containing the standalone engine. No changes to
> this stack once it's compiled.
>
> Stack #2: Sign-in stack containing a few buttons and a field. The
> buttons contain the code that adds/deletes user names to/from the
> field. Other code in the buttons will also create/delete folders named
> for each user.
>
> Stack #3: The "business" part of the program containing a number of
> cards. Each card contains a few QT Player objects and the code
> contained in the stack (and/or buttons in the stack) will permit the
> user to link to photos or movies on the local hard drive.
>
> This all seems quite straightforward to me except for one thing (which,
> as I indicated above, I've never done): What is the Transcript code I
> would use to call Stack #2 from Stack #1 and close Stack #1's window so
> it's not seen for the rest of the program?
>
> Would this work?:
>
> open stack "stack #2"
> close stack "stack #1"
>
> ...or would this simply exit the program?
>
> Should I just hide the window of Stack #1 (which is the standalone)?
>
> As always, advice is gratefully appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Barry

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From dottorzivago at fastwebnet.it  Mon Jul 21 10:21:01 2003
From: dottorzivago at fastwebnet.it (Dottor Zivago)
Date: Mon Jul 21 10:21:01 2003
Subject: Agenda- thank you
Message-ID: <BB41CFC3.1CF%dottorzivago@fastwebnet.it>

Here is the problem:
> convert dataini from shortdate to seconds put a space between "short" and
"date" and it will be able to do the
conversion and make your cards. At least it works for me with that one
change :-) 


Now it works for me too :-)
Thank you Sarah
Ubaldo



From jamesjrichards at lineone.net  Mon Jul 21 10:31:03 2003
From: jamesjrichards at lineone.net (James Richards)
Date: Mon Jul 21 10:31:03 2003
Subject: revolution/evolution
In-Reply-To: <200307211358.JAA10167@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB41C36F.3713%jamesjrichards@lineone.net>

on 21/7/03 07:38:20 -0700, John Tenny wrote:

> If luring in real newbies is a goal, a one
> time, 30 day trial isn't enough, especially  if one is squeezing the
> learning in between other tasks.

Sorry folks! Me again - I agree

James
-- 
James J Richards

jamesjrichards at lineone.net

Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063 



From valetia at mac.com  Mon Jul 21 10:40:03 2003
From: valetia at mac.com (valetia at mac.com)
Date: Mon Jul 21 10:40:03 2003
Subject: How to use revXML functions in CGI?
In-Reply-To: <BB41C36F.3713%jamesjrichards@lineone.net>
Message-ID: <BB4244E2.2FE65%valetia@mac.com>

Hi all,

How do you use revXML functions in CGI mode?

Need instructions for Linux, Darwin and Windows.

Cheers!

TIA,
Valetia



From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Mon Jul 21 11:08:03 2003
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon Jul 21 11:08:03 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <BB3CE6EB.30DDD%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BB3CE6EB.30DDD%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f17bb41b69e34ba@[141.89.100.235]>

>
>It's not about developers.  It's about end-users.
>
>End-users don't generally care what their apps were made with so long as
>they provide a great software experience.
>
>When a developer wants to know what tool a ware was written in, she'll go to
>the About box to look at the copyright string.
>
>Yes, it is time to stand up and be counted.  But before we can be counted we
>must first stand up, and stand proudly.  Hampering an app's exit is not a
>proud moment.
>
>Enabling the highest degree of excellence in software design will do far
>more for Revolution than the cleverist of branding strategies.
>
>Forget Runtime Revolution Ltd., forget Fourth World/Sons o'
>Thunder/Altuit/et al.   We don't matter; ultimately, only the end-user
>matters.
>
>Place the end-user experience above all else and the rest will sort itself
>out naturally.
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site

Yes! Adding a start or end screen might sound like a great marketing 
scheme, but I agree with others that Rev will live to regret it. The 
About dlog should be the place for such credits. Simply having to 
wait an extra second for that screen to go away will become annoying 
soon enough.

Robert


From rtamesis at cox.net  Mon Jul 21 11:23:03 2003
From: rtamesis at cox.net (rtamesis at cox.net)
Date: Mon Jul 21 11:23:03 2003
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <20030721161555.OLZI15657.lakemtao06.cox.net@smtp.central.cox.net>

I want to create a gradient background for my stack without having to import an image for that purpose. Can anyone tell me how to accomplish this? Thanks!



From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul 21 11:46:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul 21 11:46:01 2003
Subject: pi approximation day [OT]
Message-ID: <D455A5C5-BB99-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

Tuesday is pi approximation day (aka pi appreciation day).  I think 
that is because some folks write July 22 as 22/7.

In honor of this day, I plan to order 14" pizzas to enjoy with friends. 
  For some pizzas I plan to arrange the pieces on a rectangular cookie 
sheet in an alternating pattern to form an rectangle about 7" by 22".  
I will then badger friends into saying "Oooh" and "Ah" before letting 
them eat.

Illustrating this with a stack (in my losing struggle to make this 
on-topic) seemed too much work.  However, those who want to ponder pi 
on Tuesday might type this into the message box:

     put pi & LF & 22/7

Appreciate wonders both large and very small.

Dar Scott




From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Jul 21 11:58:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon Jul 21 11:58:01 2003
Subject: pi approximation day [OT]
In-Reply-To: <D455A5C5-BB99-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <844F7F80-BB9B-11D7-B166-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Dar,

> Tuesday is pi approximation day (aka pi appreciation day).  I think 
> that is because some folks write July 22 as 22/7.
>
> In honor of this day, I plan to order 14" pizzas to enjoy with 
> friends.  For some pizzas I plan to arrange the pieces on a 
> rectangular cookie sheet in an alternating pattern to form an 
> rectangle about 7" by 22".  I will then badger friends into saying 
> "Oooh" and "Ah" before letting them eat.
>
> Illustrating this with a stack (in my losing struggle to make this 
> on-topic) seemed too much work.  However, those who want to ponder pi 
> on Tuesday might type this into the message box:
>
>     put pi & LF & 22/7
>
> Appreciate wonders both large and very small.

3.14159265358979323846
3.142857

this is what i got...

Could you please be so kind and explain this "wonder" to a person (or 
more ;-)
who is/are not able to start cheering right away, just becaues they 
lack a
deeper understanding of the glamour of maths ;-)

Thanks a lot in advance.

> Dar Scott

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


P.S.
I want the free StarterKit back!!!
Please!!!



P.P.S.
Get your "greyscale" multimedia services (and more...) at

www.major-k.de

  :-D

(Very internal joke ;-)



From claus at dreischer.de  Mon Jul 21 11:59:01 2003
From: claus at dreischer.de (claus at dreischer.de)
Date: Mon Jul 21 11:59:01 2003
Subject: AW: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <20030721165200.A1C6681D1@voodoo.strato-webmail.de>

Hi,

how does this news fit into the new pricing scheme:

"REAL Software, Inc. announced today its plans to support Linux in
REALbasic 5.5, the next major upgrade to the award-winning cross-platform
visual development environment.
...
blabla"

http://www.realsoftware.com/company/pressreleases/linuxAnnounce.html

Regards,
 Claus Dreischer.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Jul 21 12:03:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon Jul 21 12:03:01 2003
Subject: Magnifier
In-Reply-To: <200307211358.JAA10167@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB416A4F.1E0D%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 7/21/03 9:58 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 03:34:05 -0700
> Subject: Re: Magnifier
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>

>> ----------
>> I'd love to build one for my mom to use for
>> reading emails (she has macular degeneration).
>> 
>> Mind if I take a gander at the scripts?
> 
> That's why it's offered as a demo stack... :-)
----------
OK, Thanks.
----------
> Note that screen magnification is built into OSX as Universal Access and
> might be available under OS9 as CloseView or Easy Access.
> 
> Also, you might want to check out the following resource (contains links to
> several older Mac accessibility enhancements and link to Screen Magnifiers
> Home page):
> 
> http://trace.wisc.edu/world/computer_access/mac/macshare.html
-----------
Thanks, I'll take a look, but my mom has a PC with Windows. Will the demo
scripts work for Windows (98 I think)?

Ken N.



From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul 21 12:22:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul 21 12:22:01 2003
Subject: pi approximation day [OT]
In-Reply-To: <844F7F80-BB9B-11D7-B166-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CE9C0754-BB9E-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 10:51 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Could you please be so kind and explain this "wonder" to a person (or 
> more ;-)
> who is/are not able to start cheering right away, just becaues they 
> lack a
> deeper understanding of the glamour of maths ;-)

Maybe it takes a few beers.

** Irrational numbers can be approximated by rational numbers. **

And, of course, the appropriate response is "Well, duh!"  Yet that is 
the basis of much computation.  That is why we can do much of the math 
we do in Revolution.

Also, this allows us to order pizza.  Or pumpkin pie. Or whatever.

Now the 22X7...  Well, the formula for the area of a circle is this:

A = pi * (r^2)

A = (pi * r) * r

since (pi * r) is half the circumference C, then

A = (C/2) * r

The rectangle approximation has an area computed like that.

If we use 22/7 for pi and 7 for r, then the original formula reduces to

A = 22 * 7

Friends say, "Dar has a firm grasp on the obvious."  I take it in the 
most generous way.

Dar Scott







From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Mon Jul 21 12:26:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Jul 21 12:26:02 2003
Subject: AW: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <20030721165200.A1C6681D1@voodoo.strato-webmail.de>
Message-ID: <76EFB7A8-BB9F-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 10:52  AM, claus at dreischer.de wrote:

> Hi,
>
> how does this news fit into the new pricing scheme:
>
> "REAL Software, Inc. announced today its plans to support Linux in
> REALbasic 5.5, the next major upgrade to the award-winning 
> cross-platform
> visual development environment.
> ...
> blabla"
>
> http://www.realsoftware.com/company/pressreleases/linuxAnnounce.html

Well I think realbasic announced their Windows IDE about 12 months 
before they delivered it :-) Running on Unix will be unfamiliar 
territory for realbasic, whereas RR has Unix down solid. We have 
nothing to worry about.

	?By adding support for Linux, REALbasic could be the only 
high-productivity rapid application development tool for all three 
platforms, Windows, Mac and Linux,? said Dan Farrand

I guess RR does not exist in their reality distortion field.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Mon Jul 21 12:34:03 2003
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (wouter)
Date: Mon Jul 21 12:34:03 2003
Subject: Magnifier (script!) 
Message-ID: <963F68A2-BBA0-11D7-9896-000502990960@pi.be>

Hi all,

> From: Yves COPPE
> Subject: Re: Magnifier (script!)
> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:51:14 -0700
>
> Le lundi, 21 juil 2003, ? 06:36 Europe/Brussels, Sannyasin   
> Sivakatirswami a ?crit :
>
>
> does this work for you?  (zooms in 10 pixel increments)
>
>  local tSizeChange
>
>
> on mouseup
>   if optionkey()="Down" then
>     put (-10) into tSizeChange
>     changeSize
>     exit mouseup
>   end if
>   put (+10) into tSizeChange
>   changeSize
> end mouseup
>
>
> on changeSize
>    put (the height of the target/the width of the target) into tRatio
>     set the width of  the target to (the width of me +tSizeChange)
>     set the height of  the target to (the width of the target * tRatio)
>     set the loc of the target to the mouseloc
>   end changeSize

To optimize the speed in the changeSize routine consider setting the  
rect at once as explained in "Fwd: Shrink Image quickly"  at
	http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-January/ 
011426.html
(This also can be done by setting the icon of a button (of the desired  
demensions) to the id of the image and setting the rect of the image to  
the rect of the button.)

>
>  Hi Sannyasin, Ken and others,
>
>  We are very close to a solution but there still remains a problem :
>
>  I'd like that the RECT of the target stays at  "30,20,330,220" with  
> the  zoomed image in that rect.
>
>  Can you provide for that ?

There are several solutions depending on which part of the image you  
want to show if  after the resizing the rect of the resulting image is  
larger than the above rect.
  If this is not the case then there is no problem.

>
>  Many thanks.
>
>
>
> Greetings.
> Yves COPPE

  Greetings,
WA







From gary.rathbone at btconnect.com  Mon Jul 21 13:09:03 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btconnect.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Mon Jul 21 13:09:03 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing/Currency - Dollars Sterling Euro Yen
In-Reply-To: <3F184A80.4060109@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <000001c34d7f$e69b2b20$f600000a@porthos>

I'm not 'upgrading' yet...I'll 'upgrade' when I need to...depending on the
new features available...and after the bug fixes...and when the global
currency markets dictate :-)

Can we pleeeeeeeeease have options to pay in fixed prices and not have to
translate US dollars according to current market trends?

It appears Rev users are highly and widely geographically diverse, and to
find the purchase price from a Scottish company is solely based in USD is
perhaps 'single minded', and not to everyone's taste.

Just my 2p.

Regards

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
Chartered Information Systems Practitioner
Leeds, UK





From bernard.devlin at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Mon Jul 21 13:10:03 2003
From: bernard.devlin at knowledgeworks.plus.com (bernard.devlin at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Mon Jul 21 13:10:03 2003
Subject: About MC/RR applications servers
Message-ID: <OF88ADCD8B.B8C28D95-ON80256D62.0006D1FD-80256D62.0008992B@lobstersoftware.com>

Hi Pierre,

Thanks for answering my other questions.  Just one more question, based on 
your answer to Alex.

I had a quick look in the Metcard archives and found this snippet:
>>
put "" into DbAuteurs
get shell("echo" && quote & "select distinct auteur__ from citations order 
by
auteur__" && quote && "| psql -h localhost citalis")
repeat for each line l in line 3 to -3 of it
    put word 1 to -1 of l & return after DbAuteurs
end repeat
<<
This is more or less how I imagined you were shelling out to the psql 
interpreter. Am I correct in thinking this is how you are invoking 
postgresql?

I can understand Alex's disbelief in this regard.  I share his 
understanding of how things are supposed to work using the combination the 
PHP Apache module, and persistent connections.

One of my apps is running on Linux and querying Firebird via ODBC.  All 
the queries have configurable debug parameters, so I can actually change 
the parameter to time each step of the process.  So I can isolate how long 
that app takes to connect and return a result set.

I will see if I can find some details on running Rev 2.01 as a command 
line application, and I will try to find some time next week to compare 
the speed of the two methods.
 

Bernard 






Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr>
Sent by: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
13/07/2003 01:40
Please respond to use-revolution

 
        To:     "use-revolution at lists.runrev.com" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: About MC/RR applications servers


On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 01:19, Alex Rice wrote:
> On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 04:56  PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
> >
> > Just do tests and you will see as me that this works perfectly, faster
> > for example, than in using ASP's or PHP commands, because the linux 
> > bash
> > optimisations, because the psql perfect design to work in command-line
> > pipe mode
> 
> This doesn't make any sense to me. I would like to see the shell 
> command you are using.

Hum... It's, even for you, freely, available on the Metacard archive
list.
> 
> You're saying what you are doing is faster than PHP direct to 
> PostgreSQL? PHP direct to PosgreSQL can have a persistent connection 
> already open, and PHP (as apache module) is running already in memory?!
> 
> Your way: have to open a socket from PHP, launch the shell, then launch 
> the psql command line program, which THEN finally connects to the 
> database.

Did you learn a little (aka lots) about WebSphere Weblogic or WebObjects
before. Have you any idea about how applications servers works...
> 
> It absolutely impossible that your way could be faster.

Perhaps are you too sure of you about how unixes are handeling multiples
processes tasks. Did you ever watch at the processor idle average time
of a linux box ? To the end, you are not alone to think so... even if 
my clients are, probably, not only too rich and stupid persons...
> 
> Again, why are you even using Revolution instead of just going from PHP 
> to PostgreSQL? Call me confused,

Did you ever ask you about the difference it makes to use real
application server instead of just including sql replies in web forms ?
> 
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From shrap at geko.net.au  Mon Jul 21 13:13:02 2003
From: shrap at geko.net.au (Neil Phillips)
Date: Mon Jul 21 13:13:02 2003
Subject: Revolution and Page setup
Message-ID: <l03130301bb39815b0dfd@[211.26.143.95]>

Hi all,
I'm developing a method of producing a report from a Revolution stack. I've
made a custom report stack that I'm happy with but I need to ensure that
the user's printer is set to landscape format when the report prints. Can I
script such a change into the print report script? If not, can I find out
whether or not the user's printer is set to landscape format and, if it's
in portrait format, put up a dialog box asking the user to set it to
lanscape?

Cheers,

Neil




From ovation06 at comcast.net  Mon Jul 21 13:13:27 2003
From: ovation06 at comcast.net (Don Cox)
Date: Mon Jul 21 13:13:27 2003
Subject: Dial with Modem
Message-ID: <C8CE377A-B72C-11D7-B87D-003065A08AC0@comcast.net>

Bill,

You may have moved far beyond this but, I ran across your post from 
last year in a list forum.

"I would like to use the built in modem to dial a phone number..."

I ran across this script so here it is. OS X and telephony not good but 
maybe better after this year?


Don Cox




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From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Mon Jul 21 13:14:00 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Mon Jul 21 13:14:00 2003
Subject: Mac OS X Problems (character encoding)
Message-ID: <20030716131118.19F9.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

I have to preface this with a disclaimer -- I am NOT criticizing Scott
or any of the technical teams at runrev/mc. I am not really criticizing
the Unicode Consortium, either. I am criticizing the entire industry. So
make sure any flames are aimed correctly ...

And Scott replied, 
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> > >> Yves wants to create new folders in the Finder. A custom font would
> > >> require that he set the Finder to use that font, which could
> > >> potentially alter any existing folder names containing diatricitals.
> > >> If Yves is planning to distribute his stack to others, it would
> > >> require that all his users also install the font and risk the same
> > >> changes to their existing folder names. I don't see it as a viable
> > >> solution.
> > > 
> > > I think the only good solution is that the Rev team makes it possible
> > > again as it was with Rev 1.1.1
> > 
> > I guess the obvious next question is:  what is different between the 1.1.1
> > implementation and v2.0, and what went into the decision to change it?
> 
> The difference is that in 2.0 the engine was converted to Mach-O
> format and uses UNIX system calls to access the filesystem whereas 1.X
> used the older (and slower and much less capable) File Manager calls.
> The real problem here is rooted in the circa 1982 decision by the
> Apple developers to use a proprietary character encoding for the
> Lisa/Mac rather than the ISO standard. 

Scott, there were no standards then. Suggested standards, yes, and a
number of them. Going off on your own was in fact the correct thing to
do back then.

> This decision has now bitten
> them (and you!) in the ass because the display system uses a different
> character encoding than the UNIX filesystem does, making stuff like
> this very hard to deal with because you have to do character-set
> conversions all over the place.

That is entirely misplacing the blame. It's not Apple's fault, any more
than it's Metacard or RunRev's fault. 

> It should be possible for us to fix or at least work around this in
> the engine, but in the mean time using a script-level workaround is
> your best bet.

There is no fix except for work-arounds. Unicode is huge, and it is not
really compatible with any other existing encoding. (Round tripping is
not the same as one-to-one correspondence.) It is still under
development in some of the most telling areas (example, rules for
collating), and that is where much of the pain comes from.

Pardon me for tossing out potential flame bait in my first post.

Joel Rees



From ubaldo.passamonti at fastwebnet.it  Mon Jul 21 13:14:25 2003
From: ubaldo.passamonti at fastwebnet.it (Ubaldo Passamonti)
Date: Mon Jul 21 13:14:25 2003
Subject: Date calculation for Sean
Message-ID: <BB3B3F65.194%ubaldo.passamonti@fastwebnet.it>

Hi Sean,
I downloaded your stack and it works nice when I click on "Draw calendar" or
on any day of the month.
It gives me an error when I try to change month (click on prev or next
arrow).        


"Type    Handler: can't find handler
Object    calendarPreviousMonth
Line    calendar_goPreviousMonth
Hint    calendar_goPreviousMonth"

Help :-)
Hi
Ubaldo



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Jul 21 13:30:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon Jul 21 13:30:00 2003
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20030721161555.OLZI15657.lakemtao06.cox.net@smtp.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <BB417D9D.80BC%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "rtamesis at cox.net"  wrote:

> I want to create a gradient background for my stack without having to import
> an image for that purpose. Can anyone tell me how to accomplish this? Thanks!

The easiest way would be to use a gradient image.

If you want to do it the hard way, you can create a series of rectangle
graphics whose backColors are set to progressively changing RGB values.  If
you wanted to get really complicated, you could divide the change in color
of the gradient over the distance covered by the gradient and create an
efficient number of graphics on the fly, when resizing the stack.

There may be also some kind of QuickTime filter/effect that applies a
gradient to a movie, and thus a player object (QT is pretty deep), but you'd
have to investigate this.

I would suggest using an image.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Jul 21 13:45:01 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon Jul 21 13:45:01 2003
Subject: About MC/RR applications servers
In-Reply-To: <OF88ADCD8B.B8C28D95-ON80256D62.0006D1FD-80256D62.0008992B@lobstersoftware.com>
References: 	 <OF88ADCD8B.B8C28D95-ON80256D62.0006D1FD-80256D62.0008992B@lobstersoftware.com>
Message-ID: <1058812636.1272.12.camel@www.kmax.net>

Hello Bernard,

On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 03:33, bernard.devlin at knowledgeworks.plus.com
wrote:
> Hi Pierre,
> 
> Thanks for answering my other questions.  Just one more question,
> based on your answer to Alex.
> 
> I had a quick look in the Metcard archives and found this snippet:
> >>
> put "" into DbAuteurs
> get shell("echo" && quote & "select distinct auteur__ from citations
> order by
> auteur__" && quote && "| psql -h localhost citalis")
> repeat for each line l in line 3 to -3 of it
>    put word 1 to -1 of l & return after DbAuteurs
> end repeat
> <<
> This is more or less how I imagined you were shelling out to the psql
> interpreter. Am I correct in thinking this is how you are invoking
> postgresql?

You are right.
> 
> I can understand Alex's disbelief in this regard.  I share his
> understanding of how things are supposed to work using the combination
> the PHP Apache module, and persistent connections.

I use PHP as an Apache module too, but only as sockets listener and
proxying app between Apache and Metacard. If i use, for yet, a shell()
command to bind MC to Postgres, i will, for sure, goes to the native RR
middleware or ODBC driver, after upgrading to RR 2, as soon as
possible...
> 
> One of my apps is running on Linux and querying Firebird via ODBC.
> All the queries have configurable debug parameters, so I can actually
> change the parameter to time each step of the process.  So I can
> isolate how long that app takes to connect and return a result set.
> 
> I will see if I can find some details on running Rev 2.01 as a command
> line application, and I will try to find some time next week to
> compare the speed of the two methods.
>  

Thanks for letting us know about the results :-)
> 
> Bernard 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pierre Sahores
> <psahores at easynet.fr>
> Sent by:
> use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> 
> 13/07/2003 01:40
> Please respond to
> use-revolution
>         
>         To:      
> "use-revolution at lists.runrev.com" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>         cc:        
>         Subject:      
> Re: About MC/RR
> applications servers
> 
> 
> On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 01:19, Alex Rice wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 04:56  PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
> > >
> > > Just do tests and you will see as me that this works perfectly,
> faster
> > > for example, than in using ASP's or PHP commands, because the
> linux 
> > > bash
> > > optimisations, because the psql perfect design to work in
> command-line
> > > pipe mode
> > 
> > This doesn't make any sense to me. I would like to see the shell 
> > command you are using.
> 
> Hum... It's, even for you, freely, available on the Metacard archive
> list.
> > 
> > You're saying what you are doing is faster than PHP direct to 
> > PostgreSQL? PHP direct to PosgreSQL can have a persistent connection
> > already open, and PHP (as apache module) is running already in
> memory?!
> > 
> > Your way: have to open a socket from PHP, launch the shell, then
> launch 
> > the psql command line program, which THEN finally connects to the 
> > database.
> 
> Did you learn a little (aka lots) about WebSphere Weblogic or
> WebObjects
> before. Have you any idea about how applications servers works...
> > 
> > It absolutely impossible that your way could be faster.
> 
> Perhaps are you too sure of you about how unixes are handeling
> multiples
> processes tasks. Did you ever watch at the processor idle average time
> of a linux box ? To the end, you are not alone to think so... even if 
> my clients are, probably, not only too rich and stupid persons...
> > 
> > Again, why are you even using Revolution instead of just going from
> PHP 
> > to PostgreSQL? Call me confused,
> 
> Did you ever ask you about the difference it makes to use real
> application server instead of just including sql replies in web forms
> ?
> > 
> > Alex Rice, Software Developer
> > Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> > http://ARCplanning.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> -- 
> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
> 
> Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
> Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Jul 21 14:18:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon Jul 21 14:18:01 2003
Subject: Date calculation for Sean
In-Reply-To: <BB3B3F65.194%ubaldo.passamonti@fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <081642E5-BBAF-11D7-98E6-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le mercredi, 16 juil 2003, ? 17:44 Europe/Brussels, Ubaldo Passamonti a 
?crit :

> Hi Sean,
> I downloaded your stack and it works nice when I click on "Draw 
> calendar" or
> on any day of the month.
> It gives me an error when I try to change month (click on prev or next
> arrow).
>
>
> "Type    Handler: can't find handler
> Object    calendarPreviousMonth
> Line    calendar_goPreviousMonth
> Hint    calendar_goPreviousMonth"
>
> Help :-)
> Hi
> Ubaldo
>


try this


send  calendar_goPreviousMonth to grp <groupname>

hope this help

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Jul 21 14:19:02 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon Jul 21 14:19:02 2003
Subject: Magnifier (script!)
In-Reply-To: <200307211358.JAA10167@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB418A57.1E0E%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Yves
> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:51:20 +0200
> Subject: Re: Magnifier (script!)
> From: Yves COPPE <yvescoppe at skynet.be>

> I'd like that the RECT of the target stays at  "30,20,330,220" with the
> zoomed image in that rect.
----------
OK, try this:

1) Make a substack the size and position you want and uncheck its resizeable
or set its resizeable() to false.

2) Set its decorations to empty.

3) Import the image you want.

4) Put Sannyasin's script into the image script and DELETE the last body
line ("set the loc of the target to the mouseloc") from it.

Tested; works.

Of course it's expected for you to set it up your own way. For example, I'd
have a "Zoom" menu with "increase" and "reduce" and use [cmd/+] for
increasing zoom and [cmd/-] to reduce it, and I'd set min/max limits. Things
like that.

HTH,
Ken N.



From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Mon Jul 21 14:31:01 2003
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Mon Jul 21 14:31:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <3F1C3F97.5A7C9326@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

Returning from a time-out of several days, I dare add my very personal
view to the many voices commenting on the proposal for new prices and
categories of Revolution.


On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com> wrote:


> The problem with the 10 line limit in the Starter Kit is that it's both
> too big and too small.
>
> It's too small in that anyone unfamiliar with Revolution thinks it's
> worthless.
>
> (snip)
>
> But it's also too large, in that anyone who knows what they're doing
> and are willing to put out the effort can get almost anything done in
> ten lines or less.
>
> So the Starter Kit has the dual problem of not being as effective as it
> could be at bringing in new users, and also of hurting sales because
> people find they can do whatever they need with it.
>
> regards,
>
> Geoff Canyon
>
These points could also be seen from a different perspective.

My impression is that the Starter Kit did *not* hurt sales. It did not
hurt you (the Revolution team) in amassing enough money so you could buy
out Metacard. The Starter Kit and the Free Edition helped you to get the
necessary money in the medium run, because quite a number of people
tried the Free Edition for a time longer than the meager thirty days of
a trial version and then bought a full license.

The Free Edition compares favorably with a number of other low-end
authoring systems (in the price range up to 150 US$) - in that is has at
least their potential - and will therefore diminish the sale of such
products.

On the other hand you are right when you say that "almost anything (can)
be done in ten lines or less" with the Starter Kit - that is one of the
many (may I say "former") beauties of Metacard/Revolution.
There may be indeed  that occasional programmer that puts out a
wonderful application, because he has overcome the ten-lines barrier
with much effort and ingenuity. But for any  programmer - other than a
casual hobbyist - that intends to create applications on a more regular
basis, the effort and time needed to overcome the ten-lines barrier by
far outweighs the money saved by not buying a regular license.
This occasional programmer will not hurt sales, on the contrary, by
showing what could be achieved with so much effort, his application
could be an incentive to buy a regular license that allows creating
similar programs without such tremendous effort and  in much less
time.--

We have a special problem here in case the Starter Kit should really
die:

In addition to a full license we have used the Starter Kit for a number
of years as an introductory tool for the (university) students in our
multimedia seminars and workshops. The students need to be able to work
on projects at home outside class hours. They can experiment,  try out
basic functions, and put together small projects. On the other hand,
they can get - or download from our ftp server (or from the many sites
that offer Metacard and Revolution stacks) - examples that have been
developed with a full edition and run them with the Starter Kit. These
stacks will be mostly small, because they are not standalones, and
because of that can be downloaded quickly (which is an important
consideration, because not many students have a DSL connection at home).

The students get a printed documentation  introducing them to a basic
set of commands and algorithms and a number of sample stacks especially
designed for this level.
When the semester finishes, they still have the Starter Kits and can
take second looks and maybe start anew exploring Revolution and showing
it to others.

Both by experimenting on their own and by looking at examples (and their
scripts) - also such produced with a full version -they can develop a
feeling for the rich potential of Metacard/Revolution and could either
be prospective buyers or people that spread the word and encourage
others to buy such a wonderful product.


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul 21 14:39:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul 21 14:39:01 2003
Subject: gradient background
In-Reply-To: <20030721161555.OLZI15657.lakemtao06.cox.net@smtp.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <F1EDF505-BBB1-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 10:15 AM, rtamesis at cox.net wrote:

> I want to create a gradient background for my stack without having to 
> import an image for that purpose. Can anyone tell me how to accomplish 
> this?

One approach: Group an image.  Set the backgroundBehavior to true.  
Make a group handler that makes sure the image size is right (a little 
hand waving, here) computes the gradient, builds an imageData string 
and sets the imageData of the image.  Perhaps it is based on custom 
properties and stack size.  At design time run the handler using the 
"Send Message" submenu on the context menu.  If it is fast enough, you 
might be able to do this at run time.  You might get bands; maybe 
adding a little noise before rounding to color values will help.

Dar Scott



From rodmc at runrev.com  Mon Jul 21 14:54:03 2003
From: rodmc at runrev.com (Rod McCall)
Date: Mon Jul 21 14:54:03 2003
Subject: What are you developing?
Message-ID: <9B32793C-BBB4-11D7-8491-000393B7335C@runrev.com>

Hi everyone,

I'm currently trying to gain some further information on what sort of  
products are being developed in Revolution. If you're already shipping  
a commercial/shareware product or have one due for completion (or  
upgrade) in the next six months please email me off list.

Also don't forget our user contributions section at:
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/ 
usercontributions.html

Kind regards,

Rod

Dr. Rod McCall                              www.runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Ltd
91 Hanover Street, Edinburgh, EH2 1DJ
t: +44 (0)131 718 4333 f: +44 (0) 131 718 4334
Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought

All incoming emails are subject to virus and spam checking, this may  
delay receipt and any response. 



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Mon Jul 21 15:53:01 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Mon Jul 21 15:53:01 2003
Subject: pi approximation day [OT]
In-Reply-To: <D455A5C5-BB99-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com> 
References: <D455A5C5-BB99-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20030721204724.54434.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Dar Scott writes: 

> Tuesday is pi approximation day (aka pi appreciation day).  I think that 
> is because some folks write July 22 as 22/7. 
> 
> In honor of this day, I plan to order 14" pizzas to enjoy with friends.  
> For some pizzas I plan to arrange the pieces on a rectangular cookie sheet 
> in an alternating pattern to form an rectangle about 7" by 22".  I will 
> then badger friends into saying "Oooh" and "Ah" before letting them eat. 
> 
> Illustrating this with a stack (in my losing struggle to make this 
> on-topic) seemed too much work.  However, those who want to ponder pi on 
> Tuesday might type this into the message box: 
> 
>     put pi & LF & 22/7 
> 
> Appreciate wonders both large and very small. 
> 
> Dar Scott
=================== 

I've always liked 355/113 (Thank you Leo Brodie, "Starting Forth") 

Indiana State legislation: Indiana House Bill #246 of 1897 would've set 
pi=3.2, but the bill was killed in the state Senate 

miscdas


From lbrehmer at rof.net  Mon Jul 21 16:37:01 2003
From: lbrehmer at rof.net (Lars Brehmer)
Date: Mon Jul 21 16:37:01 2003
Subject: Help for a non-code newbie!
Message-ID: <68E1AEA6-BBC2-11D7-8315-000A9566DE9E@rof.net>

Hi there!

I am one of those COMPLETELY non-programming people trying to use 
Revolution to develop a good idea into an inexpensive commercial 
product.  The manual is currently unavailable (I will buy a copy the 
second it is available and am waiting to hear about any 3rd party books 
on Revolution!) and I have 2 absolute beginner's questions:

1. Is there a way to hide multiple objects without a line for each one 
in the handler?  If I have to have a code line for each object and 
there are 8 fields and 8 buttons on each card, the stack gets real big 
real fast.  I've tried

hide field 1,2,3,etc
hide fields 1,2,3,etc
hide field 1-8
hide fields1-8

and so far nothing works.  I obviously have no clue about code syntax!

I also tried grouping themand hiding the group, but when other handlers 
need to show individual objects, it either doesn't work or I need to 
ungroup the group and am right back where I started!  Can anyone help 
me?


2. Is there a way to build a feature into a stack so that once the 
stack is a standalone and installed from a disk it requires the disk it 
was installed from to be present in the drive in order to continue?
I don't know whether what I am saying makes sense, I just know that 
lots of reference works that are installed on my machine require that I 
insert the disk they came on in order to use them.  I would like my app 
to do the same.  Is there a stack script that creates a message to the 
user like "Please insert disk "xyz" to continue?"

Revolution is terrific and I think I have some pretty simple yet 
interesting ideas and am making good progress, but until there is a 
comprehensive manual available, slogans like "software development 
without knowlege of code writing" aren't quite accurate.  Some of us 
know literally NOTHING and struggle with Revolution even though it is 
well designed and made for simplicity!

Thanks a million!


Lars Brehmer



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 21 16:40:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon Jul 21 16:40:01 2003
Subject: Basic question - how to use a variable to refer to an object (button) -Thanks
In-Reply-To: <000b01c34eff$a5f41650$8c4e6351@home>
Message-ID: <20030721213244.71475.qmail@web20004.mail.yahoo.com>

Stephen King <st.king42 at ntlworld.com> wrote:Hi,

Thanks for the info - it sort of backed up my own
thoughts so thats really
useful in telling me I'm on the right track.

I found the specific problem though its a little
more subtle, it seems that
you can't label a button with a number and do
this sort of thing.
Unfortunately this is exactly what I did!

===

btn label = "1"
btn name = "b1"
put 1 into n
refer to button ("b" & n)

this label feature saves you the bother of...
never mind.




=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From jhurley at infostations.com  Mon Jul 21 17:03:01 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:03:01 2003
Subject: pi approximation day [OT]
In-Reply-To: <200307211601.MAA15698@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307211601.MAA15698@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210604bb420ba443db@[69.19.173.183]>

>
>Message: 6
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:38:59 -0600
>Subject: pi approximation day [OT]
>From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>Tuesday is pi approximation day (aka pi appreciation day).  I think
>that is because some folks write July 22 as 22/7.
>
>In honor of this day, I plan to order 14" pizzas to enjoy with friends.
>   For some pizzas I plan to arrange the pieces on a rectangular cookie
>sheet in an alternating pattern to form an rectangle about 7" by 22". 
>I will then badger friends into saying "Oooh" and "Ah" before letting
>them eat.


Dar,

Close, but not quite squaring the circle :-)

>
>Illustrating this with a stack (in my losing struggle to make this
>on-topic) seemed too much work.  However, those who want to ponder pi
>on Tuesday might type this into the message box:
>
>      put pi & LF & 22/7
>
>Appreciate wonders both large and very small.
>
>Dar Scott
>



I share your appreciation for pi and will join you in celebrating on 22/7.

A day is also needed to celebrate that momentous quartet in 
mathematics: e, i, pi and -1.

And putting them all together:

        e^(i*pi) = -1

It could be a religion.

Jim


From edgore at shinra.com  Mon Jul 21 17:17:03 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:17:03 2003
Subject: Help for a non-code newbie!
Message-ID: <200307212210.h6LMA9i48727@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Welcome to the Revolution Lars!

On the first question:

I don't know of a way to do it in one line, but I can help you do it in fewer than 8!

You have two choices - either manage the numbers of the fields so that they are consecutive (which is hard, and boring) or include a number in the name. In either case you then hide and show them using a repeat loop - as in

fields and buttons are named like

fieldToHide1
fieldToHide2
etc.

buttonToHide1
buttonToHide2
etc.

Then use code like:

repeat with x = 1 to 8
hide field ("fieldToHide" & x)
hide button ("buttonToHide" & x)
end repeat

On the second question, well, it's complicated. There is probably some way that you could do it, but as copy protection it will be pretty useless. Unless the actual CD is copy protected, anybody will still be able to start your application using a copy of the original CD.

What you might find more useful (depending on how you expect the CD to be used) is to look at maybe doing some kind of an online registration check when the user tries to perform certain functions.

The application I am working on for example, won't the the user change a very important parameter without first checking against an encrypted list of registered users online.

Good luck!

Edwin Gore

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Lars Brehmer 
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:29:28
>
>Hi there!
>
>I am one of those COMPLETELY non-programming people
>trying to use 
>Revolution to develop a good idea into an
>inexpensive commercial 
>product.  The manual is currently unavailable (I
>will buy a copy the 
>second it is available and am waiting to hear about
>any 3rd party books 
>on Revolution!) and I have 2 absolute beginner's
>questions:
>
>1. Is there a way to hide multiple objects without
>a line for each one 
>in the handler?  If I have to have a code line for
>each object and 
>there are 8 fields and 8 buttons on each card, the
>stack gets real big 
>real fast.  I've tried
>
>hide field 1,2,3,etc
>hide fields 1,2,3,etc
>hide field 1-8
>hide fields1-8
>
>and so far nothing works.  I obviously have no clue
>about code syntax!
>
>I also tried grouping themand hiding the group, but
>when other handlers 
>need to show individual objects, it either doesn't
>work or I need to 
>ungroup the group and am right back where I
>started!  Can anyone help 
>me?
>
>
>2. Is there a way to build a feature into a stack
>so that once the 
>stack is a standalone and installed from a disk it
>requires the disk it 
>was installed from to be present in the drive in
>order to continue?
>I don't know whether what I am saying makes sense,
>I just know that 
>lots of reference works that are installed on my
>machine require that I 
>insert the disk they came on in order to use them. 
>I would like my app 
>to do the same.  Is there a stack script that
>creates a message to the 
>user like "Please insert disk "xyz" to continue?"
>
>Revolution is terrific and I think I have some
>pretty simple yet 
>interesting ideas and am making good progress, but
>until there is a 
>comprehensive manual available, slogans like
>"software development 
>without knowlege of code writing" aren't quite
>accurate.  Some of us 
>know literally NOTHING and struggle with Revolution
>even though it is 
>well designed and made for simplicity!
>
>Thanks a million!
>
>
>Lars Brehmer
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Jul 21 17:22:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:22:01 2003
Subject: Help for a non-code newbie!
In-Reply-To: <68E1AEA6-BBC2-11D7-8315-000A9566DE9E@rof.net>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCCEIGFLAA.chipp@chipp.com>

> 1. Is there a way to hide multiple objects without a line for each one
> in the handler?  If I have to have a code line for each object and
> there are 8 fields and 8 buttons on each card, the stack gets real big
> real fast.  I've tried
>
> hide field 1,2,3,etc
> hide fields 1,2,3,etc
> hide field 1-8
> hide fields1-8
>
> and so far nothing works.  I obviously have no clue about code syntax!

here's an idea...

put "fred,john,stan,jill" into tFldNames
repeat for each item I in tFldName
   hide fld I
end repeat


> 2. Is there a way to build a feature into a stack so that once the
> stack is a standalone and installed from a disk it requires the disk it
> was installed from to be present in the drive in order to continue?
> I don't know whether what I am saying makes sense, I just know that
> lots of reference works that are installed on my machine require that I
> insert the disk they came on in order to use them.  I would like my app
> to do the same.  Is there a stack script that creates a message to the
> user like "Please insert disk "xyz" to continue?"

If you want you can check for a (hidden) file on a specific drive. If it
doesn't exist, you can prompt the user to put the CD in...



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Jul 21 17:23:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:23:01 2003
Subject: gradient background
In-Reply-To: <F1EDF505-BBB1-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCCEIHFLAA.chipp@chipp.com>

I generally import a small JPG gradient image and then stretch it to fit.
Keeps the filesize small.

-Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dar Scott
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 2:32 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: gradient background
>
>
>
> On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 10:15 AM, rtamesis at cox.net wrote:
>
> > I want to create a gradient background for my stack without having to
> > import an image for that purpose. Can anyone tell me how to accomplish
> > this?
>
> One approach: Group an image.  Set the backgroundBehavior to true.
> Make a group handler that makes sure the image size is right (a little
> hand waving, here) computes the gradient, builds an imageData string
> and sets the imageData of the image.  Perhaps it is based on custom
> properties and stack size.  At design time run the handler using the
> "Send Message" submenu on the context menu.  If it is fast enough, you
> might be able to do this at run time.  You might get bands; maybe
> adding a little noise before rounding to color values will help.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Jul 21 17:31:00 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:31:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <a05200f17bb41b69e34ba@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCOEIIFLAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Geoff and RR,

There's one other issue about adding a splash screen to the basic version of
RR. A friend of mine mentioned this to me. There may be standalones and
stacks you *don't wish* to be associciated with. Think about pornography or
hacker programs, each ending with a "Made with Revolution" splash screen.
This may have the opposite effect you desire, IOW, creating a very POOR
image of the company rather than a GOOD one.

On another point, just so there is no confusion. Geoff, I've always admired
your work and abilities. You are one of the smartest and best ambassadors
for this platform, and are most appreciated! :-)

best,

Chipp



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jul 21 17:34:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:34:01 2003
Subject: AW: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <76EFB7A8-BB9F-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB41B683.310DC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> ?By adding support for Linux, REALbasic could be the only
> high-productivity rapid application development tool for all three
> platforms, Windows, Mac and Linux,? said Dan Farrand
> 
> I guess RR does not exist in their reality distortion field.

Nor, it seems, do 4GLs, which offer greater productivity by nearly every
objective measurement.
 
-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From edgore at shinra.com  Mon Jul 21 17:48:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:48:00 2003
Subject: AW: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <200307212240.h6LMeYK56439@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Also, from what I have read, Realbasic is going to be able to DEPLOY on linux. THe IDE is not being moved over.

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:25:55
>
>Alex Rice wrote:
>
>> =B3By adding support for Linux, REALbasic could
>be the only
>> high-productivity rapid application development
>tool for all three
>> platforms, Windows, Mac and Linux,=B2 said Dan
>Farrand
>>=20
>> I guess RR does not exist in their reality
>distortion field.
>
>Nor, it seems, do 4GLs, which offer greater
>productivity by nearly every
>objective measurement.
>=20
>--=20
> Richard Gaskin=20
> Fourth World Media Corporation
> Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on
>any site
>
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com	  
>http://www.FourthWorld.com
> Tel: 323-225-3717			  AIM:
>FourthWorldInc
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>___________________________________________________
>________
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul 21 19:19:03 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul 21 19:19:03 2003
Subject: gradient background
In-Reply-To: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCCEIHFLAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <30553735-BBD9-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 04:14 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I generally import a small JPG gradient image and then stretch it to 
> fit.
> Keeps the filesize small.

Cool!  I woulda thought the steps would be too big.

Dar



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Jul 21 19:33:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Mon Jul 21 19:33:01 2003
Subject: Help for a non-code newbie!
In-Reply-To: <1030722073432.3f1c5c68.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.86024@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <0595381A-BBDB-11D7-8162-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Lars,

Other people have suggested various loops to try, but you might also 
find that smaller groups may work for you. If you have 8 fields & 8 
buttons, so they all need to be shown individually at some time? If 
not, perhaps you could group the objects that always show or hide 
together and then use a loop to show/hide the others.

One other tip: if you put "lock screen" before a show or hide loop, the 
speed will be enormously increased.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 07:34  am, Lars Brehmer wrote:

> Hi there!
>
> I am one of those COMPLETELY non-programming people trying to use 
> Revolution to develop a good idea into an inexpensive commercial 
> product.  The manual is currently unavailable (I will buy a copy the 
> second it is available and am waiting to hear about any 3rd party 
> books on Revolution!) and I have 2 absolute beginner's questions:
>
> 1. Is there a way to hide multiple objects without a line for each one 
> in the handler?  If I have to have a code line for each object and 
> there are 8 fields and 8 buttons on each card, the stack gets real big 
> real fast.  I've tried
>
> hide field 1,2,3,etc
> hide fields 1,2,3,etc
> hide field 1-8
> hide fields1-8
>
> and so far nothing works.  I obviously have no clue about code syntax!
>
> I also tried grouping themand hiding the group, but when other 
> handlers need to show individual objects, it either doesn't work or I 
> need to ungroup the group and am right back where I started!  Can 
> anyone help me?
>
>> <snip>




From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Jul 21 19:51:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon Jul 21 19:51:01 2003
Subject: gradient background
In-Reply-To: <30553735-BBD9-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAGEMIFCAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Nope...works real well. Course if you do see banding, then (as you said
previously) add a bit of noise...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dar Scott
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 7:13 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: gradient background
>
>
>
> On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 04:14 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
> > I generally import a small JPG gradient image and then stretch it to
> > fit.
> > Keeps the filesize small.
>
> Cool!  I woulda thought the steps would be too big.
>
> Dar
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Mon Jul 21 20:01:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Jul 21 20:01:01 2003
Subject: cannot close modeless stack
Message-ID: <F87051B5-BBDE-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

I have a modeless stack that I cannot close (from a handler) unless I 
first change it to toplevel. Why is this?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Mon Jul 21 20:07:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Jul 21 20:07:00 2003
Subject: nevermind (was: cannot close modeless stack)
Message-ID: <C87E69AA-BBDF-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

Sorry, this wasn't the problem at all.

Alex	

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com>
> Date: Mon Jul 21, 2003  6:53:55  PM America/Denver
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: cannot close modeless stack
>
>
> I have a modeless stack that I cannot close (from a handler) unless I 
> first change it to toplevel. Why is this?
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jul 21 20:08:46 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Jul 21 20:08:46 2003
Subject: cannot close modeless stack
In-Reply-To: <F87051B5-BBDE-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB41DA78.310F9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> I have a modeless stack that I cannot close (from a handler) unless I
> first change it to toplevel. Why is this?

It cannot be determined until we see the handler in question.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From tsalagi at rainynightspress.com  Mon Jul 21 20:28:03 2003
From: tsalagi at rainynightspress.com (Duane Poncy)
Date: Mon Jul 21 20:28:03 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <200307211855.OAA26654@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307211855.OAA26654@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20030721182110250265.GyazMail.tsalagi@rainynightspress.com>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:55:23 -0400, Wilhelm Sanke <sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de>:

This is another late response to the new pricing scheme. As a user of the "Free Edition" I realize I don't have much standing to complain about the new pricing, but it does bring up a couple of questions for me. 

I am more than a hobbyist, but I am not a professional programmer. I have been working on a Cherokee dictionary for some months now. The hundred plus hours I have put into this dictionary is gratis. I am very low income, and and have not been able to afford the SBE. I expect to have this project ready for use in a few months, and will distribute if for free, because it is important to me to help save my tribe's language.

For this software to continue to be useful, I need cross-platform capability. Most education people and many writers, like me, use MacIntosh, but the majority of people who will use this dictionary are PC users. I have been thinking that if it went well, I could maybe scrape together enough to buy the SBE. With the new pricing there is no way I can afford to buy into cross-platform capability. 

I would like to continue to build Cherokee lanquage learning tools, but I guess I will have to find some other tool than Revolution. Or I will have to continue to use Revolution 2.0 free edition.

I don't know if there are others out there like me, and I know a company can't make decisions based on just a few users, but, nevertheless, I am truly disappointed. 


Duane Poncy

visit Elohi Gadugi: poetry, software, 
Cherokee culture and Native American rights.
http://dsaoregon.igc.org/tsalagi/

--------------------------------------------------------
Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. 
On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.  - Arundhati Roy
---------------------------------------------------------



From katir at hindu.org  Mon Jul 21 20:45:01 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon Jul 21 20:45:01 2003
Subject: Magnifier (script!)
In-Reply-To: <BB418A57.1E0E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <1F320E13-BBE5-11D7-B829-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

And, this is actually the proper way to do this, a bit more "esoteric" 
but the resize occurs  only once instead of twice... a tad faster.

local tSizeChange

on mouseup
   if optionkey()="Down" then
     put (-10) into tSizeChange
     changeSize
     exit mouseup
   end if
   put (+10) into tSizeChange
   changeSize
end mouseup

on changeSize
     put (the height of the target/the width of the target) into tRatio
     put the rect of the target into tImageRect
     put  (item 3 of tImageRect+tSizeChange) into item 3 of tImageRect
     put (((item 3 of tImageRect-item 1 of tImageRect)* tRatio)\
          +item 2 of tImageRect) into item 4 of tImageRect
     set the rect of the target to tImageRect
   end changeSize


On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 06:17  AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Hi Yves
>> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:51:20 +0200
>> Subject: Re: Magnifier (script!)
>> From: Yves COPPE <yvescoppe at skynet.be>
>
>> I'd like that the RECT of the target stays at  "30,20,330,220" with 
>> the
>> zoomed image in that rect.
> ----------
> OK, try this:
>
> 1) Make a substack the size and position you want and uncheck its 
> resizeable
> or set its resizeable() to false.
>
> 2) Set its decorations to empty.
>
> 3) Import the image you want.
>
> 4) Put Sannyasin's script into the image script and DELETE the last 
> body
> line ("set the loc of the target to the mouseloc") from it.
>
> Tested; works.
>
> Of course it's expected for you to set it up your own way. For 
> example, I'd
> have a "Zoom" menu with "increase" and "reduce" and use [cmd/+] for
> increasing zoom and [cmd/-] to reduce it, and I'd set min/max limits. 
> Things
> like that.
>
> HTH,
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Jul 21 20:56:00 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon Jul 21 20:56:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <20030721182110250265.GyazMail.tsalagi@rainynightspress.com>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAMEMLFCAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Duane,

My understanding is that you could purchase a Studio copy of RunRev for your
Mac platform for $199 and an Express copy to debug on Windows for $75 and
you're still under the $299 Small Business Edition.

The Studio Copy will let you compile standalones for all Windows versions.
You can debug your code using the Express Copy.

Another option is purchase two Express Copies (if you don't mind the "Made
with Revolution" message when the user quits.) This would only set you back
$150...still much cheaper than the small business edition used to be.

best,

Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Duane Poncy
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 8:21 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing
>
>
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:55:23 -0400, Wilhelm Sanke
> <sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de>:
>
> This is another late response to the new pricing scheme. As a
> user of the "Free Edition" I realize I don't have much standing
> to complain about the new pricing, but it does bring up a couple
> of questions for me.
>
> I am more than a hobbyist, but I am not a professional
> programmer. I have been working on a Cherokee dictionary for some
> months now. The hundred plus hours I have put into this
> dictionary is gratis. I am very low income, and and have not been
> able to afford the SBE. I expect to have this project ready for
> use in a few months, and will distribute if for free, because it
> is important to me to help save my tribe's language.
>
> For this software to continue to be useful, I need cross-platform
> capability. Most education people and many writers, like me, use
> MacIntosh, but the majority of people who will use this
> dictionary are PC users. I have been thinking that if it went
> well, I could maybe scrape together enough to buy the SBE. With
> the new pricing there is no way I can afford to buy into
> cross-platform capability.
>
> I would like to continue to build Cherokee lanquage learning
> tools, but I guess I will have to find some other tool than
> Revolution. Or I will have to continue to use Revolution 2.0 free edition.
>
> I don't know if there are others out there like me, and I know a
> company can't make decisions based on just a few users, but,
> nevertheless, I am truly disappointed.
>
>
> Duane Poncy
>
> visit Elohi Gadugi: poetry, software,
> Cherokee culture and Native American rights.
> http://dsaoregon.igc.org/tsalagi/
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Another world is not only possible, she is on her way.
> On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.  - Arundhati Roy
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From bvlahos at mac.com  Mon Jul 21 21:15:01 2003
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Mon Jul 21 21:15:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <20030721182110250265.GyazMail.tsalagi@rainynightspress.com>
Message-ID: <4FFD03FA-BBE9-11D7-9146-0003936A2C42@mac.com>

Duane,

No problem. Your existing free edition of Revolution version 2 will 
continue to work forever! You can complete your project and distribute 
it without any problems.

If you want to upgrade to 2.1 and can afford the $75 get the new 
Express version on sale before the end of next month. You won't have 
the 10 line limit of your current free version and will be able to help 
save your tribe's language on your Mac and even be able to freely 
distribute the application to other Mac users.

As far as Windows you could do the following...
1. You were hoping to scrape up $299 for the previous SBE version. That 
is the same as 1 Mac + 1 Windows Express versions at list price. The 
current sale price makes it even cheaper. All you would have to do is 
find someone with a Windows computer you can install Revolution Express 
on, copy over your finished stack and build it on the PC.

2. Alternatively you could partner up with a Windows purchaser of the 
Express version and work together and each build the finished 
standalones for distribution.

3. If your application was successful enough you could upgrade the 
Express version to the Studio version. I don't believe RunRev has 
posted the upgrade prices but they have been pretty close to just the 
cost differences of the various versions with previous versions. If you 
can swing this before the end of August then the Studio version will be 
$100 cheaper than what the SBE version ever was. You would be able to 
build distributions for all of the platforms from your Mac.

Bill Vlahos


On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 06:21  PM, Duane Poncy wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:55:23 -0400, Wilhelm Sanke 
> <sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de>:
>
> This is another late response to the new pricing scheme. As a user of 
> the "Free Edition" I realize I don't have much standing to complain 
> about the new pricing, but it does bring up a couple of questions for 
> me.
>
> I am more than a hobbyist, but I am not a professional programmer. I 
> have been working on a Cherokee dictionary for some months now. The 
> hundred plus hours I have put into this dictionary is gratis. I am 
> very low income, and and have not been able to afford the SBE. I 
> expect to have this project ready for use in a few months, and will 
> distribute if for free, because it is important to me to help save my 
> tribe's language.
>
> For this software to continue to be useful, I need cross-platform 
> capability. Most education people and many writers, like me, use 
> MacIntosh, but the majority of people who will use this dictionary are 
> PC users. I have been thinking that if it went well, I could maybe 
> scrape together enough to buy the SBE. With the new pricing there is 
> no way I can afford to buy into cross-platform capability.
>
> I would like to continue to build Cherokee lanquage learning tools, 
> but I guess I will have to find some other tool than Revolution. Or I 
> will have to continue to use Revolution 2.0 free edition.
>
> I don't know if there are others out there like me, and I know a 
> company can't make decisions based on just a few users, but, 
> nevertheless, I am truly disappointed.
>
>
> Duane Poncy
>
> visit Elohi Gadugi: poetry, software,
> Cherokee culture and Native American rights.
> http://dsaoregon.igc.org/tsalagi/
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Another world is not only possible, she is on her way.
> On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.  - Arundhati Roy
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Jul 21 22:11:02 2003
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon Jul 21 22:11:02 2003
Subject: Basic question - how to use a variable to refer to an object
 (button) -Thanks
In-Reply-To: <20030721213244.71475.qmail@web20004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0307212003220.17896-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Don't feel bad, Erik -- done it myself (and felt like a royal idiot!)

Judy

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, erik hansen wrote:

> I found the specific problem though its a little
> more subtle, it seems that
> you can't label a button with a number and do
> this sort of thing.
> Unfortunately this is exactly what I did!



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Mon Jul 21 22:31:03 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Mon Jul 21 22:31:03 2003
Subject: revolution/evolution
Message-ID: <200307220323.XAA04346@bright.unitz.ca>

how about instead of the 30-day limit, they take the
microsloth route and you can only run the full studio
version 50 times and it will slowly start removing features,
even though you've already paid 1000$ for it, entered your
serial number and jumped through some more hoops.. i can
already see the money rolling in ;-)


----- Original Message Follows -----
> explore. If luring in real newbies is a goal, a one  time,
> 30 day trial isn't enough, especially  if one is squeezing


From shaosean at unitz.ca  Mon Jul 21 22:50:01 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Mon Jul 21 22:50:01 2003
Subject: Date calculation for Sean
Message-ID: <200307220342.XAA06158@bright.unitz.ca>

actually it's something that seems to have gotta changed
some where along the way.. what needs to be done is to
create the custom handlers in the card/stack script to trap
the public handlers that are in the calendar object.. all
the public handlers in the object will have "pass
<handlerName>" as the last line.. this allows you, as the
developer, to trap what the user has done so your app can do
what you want it to do without having to muck around too
much in my (badly written) scripts ;-)


----- Original Message Follows -----
> > It gives me an error when I try to change month (click
> > on prev or next arrow).


From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Mon Jul 21 23:04:00 2003
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Mon Jul 21 23:04:00 2003
Subject: Help for a non-code newbie!
In-Reply-To: <200307220003.UAA04910@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9AA0FB26-BBF8-11D7-AA57-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Tuesday, Jul 22, 2003, at 10:03 Australia/Sydney, Sarah 
<sarahr at genesearch.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hi Lars,
>
> Other people have suggested various loops
...and here is another one but this one is a general solution rather 
than specific to one project. I include this in stacks fairly routinely.

on hideFields
   put the paramCount into k
   repeat with x = 1 to k
     hide field x
   end repeat
end hideFields

Put that in your stack script and wherever you want to hide fields, 
make a call

hideFields 1,7,3,8 -- (etc)

Notice you can pass it any number of fields and do not first have to 
put them in sequence or groups or anything else.

Create a corresponding handler for showing fields, and you might also 
want a reversing one, whose main line in the repeat loop is:
     set the visible of field x to (not the visible of field x)

You can also pass it field numbers or names, although if you are using 
names you should make sure they are not also variables or reserved 
words.

regards
David
>
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/



From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Mon Jul 21 23:22:01 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Mon Jul 21 23:22:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIMEIJCNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <007458C4-B8FD-11D7-A0AD-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com> <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIMEIJCNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <20030722130922.E348.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

> The thought of many simpleton standalones at 2.5Mb each with the RR logo
> blasted across them seems a sure fire way to create the impression that RR
> is not a professional tool. Once this impression is created, it will be VERY
> difficult to change. This in-product advertising is NOT in the best interest
> of RR or it's developers.

So, maybe the Express edition (and player only, if such is considered) should
have a completely different name?

For a player, Runtime Pawn? Pawn of the Revolution? Runtime Propoganda?

For the Express edition, Runtime Strategy? End-user Games? Pockets of
the Revolution?

Maybe war is not the right theme ...

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Jul 21 23:52:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon Jul 21 23:52:01 2003
Subject: Help for a non-code newbie!
In-Reply-To: <9AA0FB26-BBF8-11D7-AA57-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
References: <9AA0FB26-BBF8-11D7-AA57-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <3F1CC140.5020904@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/21/03 10:57 PM, David Vaughan wrote:

> ...and here is another one but this one is a general solution rather 
> than specific to one project. I include this in stacks fairly routinely.
> 
> on hideFields
>   put the paramCount into k
>   repeat with x = 1 to k
>     hide field x
>   end repeat
> end hideFields
> 
> Put that in your stack script and wherever you want to hide fields, make 
> a call
> 
> hideFields 1,7,3,8 -- (etc)

Good solution. I bet you typed it from memory though. ;)

I think this works the way you meant:

on hideFields
   put the params into k
   delete word 1 of k -- this is the handler name
   replace quote with empty in k
   repeat for each item x in k
     hide field x
   end repeat
end hideFields

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From katir at hindu.org  Tue Jul 22 00:33:01 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Tue Jul 22 00:33:01 2003
Subject: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
Message-ID: <FCD50856-BC04-11D7-B829-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

I am using a check box button to indicate to the user that he is or is  
not connected to the internet. on openCard, the script pings for a file  
on  a particular server... if it is downloaded and is not a 404, then  
the check box hilite is set to true. Problem is, I don't want the user  
to be able to click the button (thereby incorrectly toggling the check  
mark) Of course, one can do this:

on mouseup
   set the hilite of me to not the hilite of me
end mouseup

to preserve the button state an a click attempt... but, is there no  
property that can be set that would simply not let the user click the  
button (other than disabled, which dims the button.) ??

Or perhaps there is a preferred strategy to accomplish this goal other  
than use of a check button...


btw, since there are a lot of new Rev users here... you may enjoy  
hacking our latest simple presentation teacher's aid for "Good Conduct"  
for youth.

run this in your msg box:

go stack url  
"http://www.himalayanacademy.com/studyhall/yamas_niyamas/ 
Yamas_and_Niyamas.rev"

It demonstrates a lot of relatively simple stuff.

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org



From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Tue Jul 22 00:43:00 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Tue Jul 22 00:43:00 2003
Subject: XML library reliable?
In-Reply-To: <200307192332.TAA04569@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB4299DC.201C%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

1) Consider that you:

set the htmltext of field 1 to that -- : ...

<p>&copy;2003 by Jo&euml;l Guillod</p>
<p><font color="#0000FF"><u>joel.guillod at net2000.ch</u></font></p>
<p></p>


2) execute this test script:

    on test
      put "<fld1>" & (the HTMLtext of fld 1) & "</fld1>" into xmldata
      put revCreateXMLTree(xmldata,false,true,false) into fldTreeID
      put revXMLText(fldTreeID,"/fld1",false) into xmlDataRestored
      put xmlData &cr& xmlDataRestored
      revDeleteXMLtree fldTreeID
    end test


3) Why dont I get the same than the original data: i.e. why xmldata is not
xmlDataRestored? The procedure looses the diacritics (the euml for ? and
nothing for the copyright character). I actually get:

<fld1><p>2003 by Jol Guillod
joel.guillod at net2000.ch
</p></fld1>


4) If this is not a bug, please help and point me to some xml rev
documentation. Or it is something to do with the uniEncode() and uniDecode()
functions?
And do *NOT* give another way to do the job (using the RTFText of the field
instead of the htmltext will work but in that case, we will loose the
linktext and imagesource properties of the text and that I actually need
them)!

5) OK, another workaround for preserving html as far as I have tested is:

    on test
      put "<fld1>" & conv(the HTMLtext of fld 1) & "</fld1>" into xmldata
      put revCreateXMLTree(xmldata,false,true,false,"UTF-7") into fldTreeID
      put revXMLNodeContents(fldTreeID,"/fld1") into xmlDataRestored
      put xmlData &cr& xmlDataRestored &cr& the HTMLtext of fld 1 &cr&
revconv(xmlDataRestored)
      revDeleteXMLtree fldTreeID
    end test
    
    function conv d
      return base64encode(compress(d))
    end conv
    
    function revconv d
      return decompress(base64decode(d))
    end revconv
    

6) The problem is that the htmltext of fields is xml based, so including it
in an xml tree and restoring it should work whatever the diacritics,
shouldn't it?


Happy to use RR and hope all users will contribute a bit and more to do it
better and more reliable.


Jo?l G -- Jo&euml;l G



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 00:52:03 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Jul 22 00:52:03 2003
Subject: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
In-Reply-To: <FCD50856-BC04-11D7-B829-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <20030722054528.77117.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> wrote:
> I am using a check box button to indicate to the
> user that he is or is  
> not connected to the internet. on openCard, the
> script pings for a file  
> on  a particular server... if it is downloaded and
> is not a 404, then  
> the check box hilite is set to true. Problem is, I
> don't want the user  
> to be able to click the button (thereby incorrectly
> toggling the check  
> mark) Of course, one can do this:
> 
> on mouseup
>    set the hilite of me to not the hilite of me
> end mouseup
> 
> to preserve the button state an a click attempt...
> but, is there no  
> property that can be set that would simply not let
> the user click the  
> button (other than disabled, which dims the button.)
> ??
> 
> Or perhaps there is a preferred strategy to
> accomplish this goal other  
> than use of a check button...
> 
> 

Hi Sannyasin,

Turn off the autoHilite of the checkbox, and leave the
script of the checkbox empty. Now it won't be hilited
unless you set its hilite from a script.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 22 01:01:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 22 01:01:01 2003
Subject: understanding modeless stacks on OS X
Message-ID: <E0FE5B80-BC08-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

I have a preferences stack that I want to have the pinstripe background 
pattern on OS X, and I want to get rid of the ugly black box around the 
default button (OS X appearance manager button).

In the IDE, I just set the style to modeless, and it looks correct. In 
a standalone, the stack seems to be toplevel because there is a gray 
background instead of pinstripes and there is a black box around the 
default button. However, the stack reports that it is modeless. Here is 
the handler used to open the prefs stack.

on mouseUp
   set the loc of stack "Prefs" to the screenloc
   go stack "Prefs" -- also tried "as modeless"
   answer the style of stack "Prefs" -- says "modeless"
end mouseUp

Again, in the IDE, this handler shows a modeless stack that appears how 
I want it to. In standalone, it looks bad. Is this a bug?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 22 01:10:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 22 01:10:01 2003
Subject: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
In-Reply-To: <FCD50856-BC04-11D7-B829-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <1E96F9AC-BC0A-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 11:26 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Or perhaps there is a preferred strategy to accomplish this goal other  
> than use of a check button...

To me a check-box seems strange as an indicator, but that may be just  
me.  I'd explore graphics or buttons with images.

Dar Scott
************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 22 01:15:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 22 01:15:00 2003
Subject: XML library reliable?
In-Reply-To: <BB4299DC.201C%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <D4F8B01D-BC0A-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 11:35  PM, Jo?l Guillod wrote:

> <p>&copy;2003 by Jo&euml;l Guillod</p>
> <p><font color="#0000FF"><u>joel.guillod at net2000.ch</u></font></p>
> <p></p>

Joel, the little I've used the XML lib I've not had any reliability 
problems. In your example I can tell you what the error is, but not 
WHY. I don't know enough about XML.

If you make the second parameter to revCreateXMLTree to be "true", 
that's parseBadData, you will get the error message back from the 
function, instead of a xml tree ID:

xmlerr, can't parse xml
Entity 'euml' no defined

I don't know what's "bad" about that entity, but I do know that most 
html, found in web pages out in the wild, is not valid XML. Apparently 
not all htmlText is not valid XML either.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but is revCreateXMLTree negating the 
meaning of parseBadData? That is, it's parsing bad data when you have 
parseBadData = false, but when I set parseBadData = true, then it stops 
parsing with the error message?  It's late and I'm weary so please 
confirm and if so I'll file a bug.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 22 01:43:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 22 01:43:01 2003
Subject: XML library reliable?
In-Reply-To: <D4F8B01D-BC0A-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <B7D26C96-BC0E-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 12:07 AM, Alex Rice wrote:

>> <p>&copy;2003 by Jo&euml;l Guillod</p>
>> <p><font color="#0000FF"><u>joel.guillod at net2000.ch</u></font></p>
>> <p></p>
>
> Joel, the little I've used the XML lib I've not had any reliability 
> problems. In your example I can tell you what the error is, but not 
> WHY. I don't know enough about XML.
>
> If you make the second parameter to revCreateXMLTree to be "true", 
> that's parseBadData, you will get the error message back from the 
> function, instead of a xml tree ID:
>
> xmlerr, can't parse xml
> Entity 'euml' no defined

My XML pocket reference (which may be outdated) shows only five 
predefined entity references:

&amp:
&lt;
&gt;
&quote;
&apos;

Plus, you can have hexadecimal character references.

Maybe there is a way to define entities.

Dar Scott



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Tue Jul 22 02:05:00 2003
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Tue Jul 22 02:05:00 2003
Subject: Help for a non-code newbie! 
In-Reply-To: <200307220434.AAA13989@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <E915FE18-BC11-11D7-AA57-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Tuesday, Jul 22, 2003, at 14:34 Australia/Sydney, "J. Landman Gay" 
<jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
>
> Good solution. I bet you typed it from memory though. ;)

Dead right Jacque!
>
> I think this works the way you meant:
<snip>

thanks
David
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Jul 22 02:18:00 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue Jul 22 02:18:00 2003
Subject: understanding modeless stacks on OS X
In-Reply-To: <E0FE5B80-BC08-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <E0FE5B80-BC08-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f01bb4293f0fbcd@[10.0.1.2]>

>I have a preferences stack that I want to have the pinstripe 
>background pattern on OS X, and I want to get rid of the ugly black 
>box around the default button (OS X appearance manager button).
>
>In the IDE, I just set the style to modeless, and it looks correct. 
>In a standalone, the stack seems to be toplevel because there is a 
>gray background instead of pinstripes and there is a black box 
>around the default button.

When building the standalone did you check & select the image-pattern 
library that
is in the Inclusions? Maybe that is the problem?

atb

sims
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 22 02:20:03 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 22 02:20:03 2003
Subject: XML library reliable?
In-Reply-To: <B7D26C96-BC0E-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <EB09E353-BC13-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 12:35  AM, Dar Scott wrote:
> My XML pocket reference (which may be outdated) shows only five 
> predefined entity references:
>
> &amp:
> &lt;
> &gt;
> &quote;
> &apos;
>
> Plus, you can have hexadecimal character references.
>
> Maybe there is a way to define entities.

http://www.xml.com/pub/a/98/08/xmlqna1.html
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/98/08/xmlqna2.html

Also upcomingEvents.xml in the sample xml folder has custom entities. 
It uses the DOCTYPE element to define the DTD including entities used 
in the document.

So Joel I guess in a nutshell, html is not always compatible with XML.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 22 02:33:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 22 02:33:00 2003
Subject: understanding modeless stacks on OS X
In-Reply-To: <a05200f01bb4293f0fbcd@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <D08277EF-BC15-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 01:12  AM, sims wrote:

> When building the standalone did you check & select the image-pattern 
> library that
> is in the Inclusions? Maybe that is the problem?

I'm not using any patterns- I think the pinstripes are supposed to come 
from the Appearance Manager. However I tried building a distro with 
both of the pattern libraries selected, but it looked the same at 
run-time.

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Jul 22 02:57:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue Jul 22 02:57:01 2003
Subject: Help for a non-code newbie!
In-Reply-To: <200307220003.UAA04928@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB423C10.1E38%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Lars, and welcome to the Rev list,

> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:29:28 -0600
> Subject: Help for a non-code newbie!
> From: Lars Brehmer <lbrehmer at rof.net>

---------snip
> 1. Is there a way to hide multiple objects without a line for each one
> in the handler?
----------
Sure, but I wish I knew exactly what you want to do. It looks like there may
be a better way to accomplish your task. In the meantime, if you name your
fields in order, i.e., Field 1, Field 2, etc., then:

on myHandler
  repeat with fNum = 1 to 8
    hide fld ("Field " & fNum) -- Note the space after Field
  end repeat
end myHandler
----------
> I also tried grouping themand hiding the group, but when other handlers
> need to show individual objects, it either doesn't work or I need to
> ungroup the group and am right back where I started!  Can anyone help
> me?
----------
In the scenario I'm using here, you can either hide/show the group or
individual fields. It's just that if you hide the group, you can't show
individual fields while the group is hidden. I hope that makes sense?

You still may want to group the fields, though, so you can set the
backgroundBehavior of the group to true. This way, they will be on all
cards, even new ones, and yet you can still hide/show individual fields or
all at once in a loop. This, of course, saves memory of having different
sets on each card (just to clarify).

If you want to hide several individual fields, i.e., 3, 5, 6, 8, then you
must hide them separately.

But remember, they are STILL grouped, so they'll be the same on all cards.
i.e., the only way to have some show on card 1 and different ones to show on
card 2 is to set them up in an openCard handler. You could do this in each
card script, or specify which card shows which fields in a boolean statement
in an openCard handler in the stack script (don't forget to pass it so
openCard handlers can be activated in individual cards later if you need
to).

That may be over your head right now, so just ask as you go.
----------
> 2. Is there a way to build a feature into a stack so that once the
> stack is a standalone and installed from a disk it requires the disk it
> was installed from to be present in the drive in order to continue?
> I don't know whether what I am saying makes sense, I just know that
> lots of reference works that are installed on my machine require that I
> insert the disk they came on in order to use them.  I would like my app
> to do the same. 
----------
Why? What is the purpose? Will there be files on CD that you don't want on
the HD? That's usually a case where you either want to protect files (you
can delete them either by accident or maliciously on a hard drive, but not
on a write-once CD), or you want to conserve HD space, or, as in games, you
have a set of such large files (like video/animation/control sets), that
there may not be enough memory to have them all actively available
simultaneously (notice in high res flight sims you can't fly a Mustang and
Messershmidt at the same time). Not that Rev is quite ready to do
sophisticated flight sims yet ;-)
----------
> Is there a stack script that creates a message to the
> user like "Please insert disk "xyz" to continue?"
----------
Well, if you script what files it wants and where it expects them to be in
advance, then yes, you can script that. You could actually transfer
encrypted files off the internet that way if you like, as well.
----------
> Revolution is terrific
----------
Yeah, it is.

HTH,
Ken N.



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 22 09:24:00 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue Jul 22 09:24:00 2003
Subject: XML library reliable?
In-Reply-To: <BB4299DC.201C%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <978EA618-BC4F-11D7-B7A0-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 10:35  PM, Jo?l Guillod wrote:

> 1) Consider that you:
>
> set the htmltext of field 1 to that -- : ...
>
> <p>&copy;2003 by Jo&euml;l Guillod</p>
> <p><font color="#0000FF"><u>joel.guillod at net2000.ch</u></font></p>
> <p></p>
>
>
> 2) execute this test script:
>
>     on test
>       put "<fld1>" & (the HTMLtext of fld 1) & "</fld1>" into xmldata
>       put revCreateXMLTree(xmldata,false,true,false) into fldTreeID

[snip]

> 3) Why dont I get the same than the original data: i.e. why xmldata is  
> not
> xmlDataRestored? The procedure looses the diacritics (the euml for ?  
> and
> nothing for the copyright character). I actually get:
>
> <fld1><p>2003 by Jol Guillod
> joel.guillod at net2000.ch
> </p></fld1>

Warning, untested thinking,

I haven't tested for this but off hand I would say by your results that  
the XML parser is handling the text according to the rules of SGML  
correctly. Line-returns, in combination with the HTML "<p> </p>," are  
not being restored because they are not allowed in XML. Like empty  
space that is reserved for the creation of attributes in SGML, you  
might need to place all your text data on a single line. This might  
then result in a returned chunk of HTML text that will render correctly.

Example:
<p>&copy;2003 by Jo&euml;l Guillod</p><p><font  
color="#0000FF"><u>joel.guillod at net2000.ch</u></font></p><p></p>

You might further test XML by placing all your HTML text in one line &  
into an attribute in combination with including the escape-sequences  
for the quote characters.

Example:
<htmlChunk text="<p>&copy;2003 by Jo&euml;l Guillod</p><p><font color=  
&quote;#0000FF&quote;><u>joel.guillod at net2000.ch</u></font></p><p></ 
p>"></htmlChunk>

Mark Brownell


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From SteelWeaver52 at aol.com  Tue Jul 22 09:40:01 2003
From: SteelWeaver52 at aol.com (SteelWeaver52 at aol.com)
Date: Tue Jul 22 09:40:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Message-ID: <76.2fe7c7ab.2c4ea4f3@aol.com>

A list reader said:

>For this software to continue to be useful, I need cross-platform 
>capability. Most education people and many writers, like me, use 
>MacIntosh, but the majority of people who will use this dictionary 
>are PC users. I have been thinking that if it went well, I could maybe 
>scrape together enough to buy the SBE. With the new pricing there 
>is no way I can afford to buy into cross-platform capability.

I have a few thoughts on this, in no particular order, and not 
necessarily arranged coherently.

+  Perhaps a "used" Windows machine would be less costly
than that particular RunRev license required to produce
cross-platform applications.

+  Have you considered html?  

+  There is some irony here.  I personally think your efforts are
important.  But apparently the product is not important enough to 
your "customers" that they would be willing to exchange a few 
bucks for it, and thereby support it financially.  
Yet, you are disappointed in a profit-making 
corporation for not giving away the fruits of their labor for free.
Wouldn't a more logical focus of your disappointment be those
who have a vested interest in your product by way of culture and
history, rather than those who have no vested interest?

---Tom Nally, New Orleans
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From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 22 10:13:03 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue Jul 22 10:13:03 2003
Subject: XML library reliable?
In-Reply-To: <978EA618-BC4F-11D7-B7A0-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F0C6A37E-BC55-11D7-B7A0-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 07:20  AM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> Example:
> <htmlChunk text="<p>&copy;2003 by Jo&euml;l Guillod</p><p><font color=  
> &quote;#0000FF&quote;><u>joel.guillod at net2000.ch</u></font></p><p></ 
> p>"></htmlChunk>
>
> Mark Brownell

Like I said, it was untested thinking. This might return properly from  
the XML tree as the attribute but you would need to manually transform  
the "&quote;" [sp], (should read &quot;), "<font color=  
&quot;#0000FF&quot;>"  to <font color= "#0000FF"> first.



From themacguy at macosx.com  Tue Jul 22 11:09:03 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Tue Jul 22 11:09:03 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
Message-ID: <E7717368-BC5D-11D7-BF9E-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Just in case you haven't given this more thought, the Studio edition 
pricing seems to indicate that if I wish to develop on the Mac but do 
any final "tweaks" to my Windows distribution, I must do it on my Mac. 
Currently I have Rev installed on both my Mac -and- my PC. Of course, 
as I have a KVM switch, I only use one installation at any given time 
(therefore I am staying within my current licensing). When I need to 
tweak a distribution for the PC, I often find it easier to simply move 
the project over to the PC and do the final development for that 
platform over there. The new pricing structure would seem to preclude 
this.

So my question to the Rev crew is this: If I renew (SBE - to - Studio), 
will my reg# be functional for both the Mac and PC IDE versions or are 
you forcing me to choose?

With Macs at under 4% of the market, guess what I'll have to choose? 
Apple would not be pleased.

Barry



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 22 11:33:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 22 11:33:01 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <E7717368-BC5D-11D7-BF9E-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <32F51737-BC61-11D7-B782-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 10:02  AM, Barry Levine wrote:
>
> With Macs at under 4% of the market, guess what I'll have to choose? 
> Apple would not be pleased.

So how is Rev "Rev killing the Mac platform"? This doesn't make sense 
and it's not fair. In my eyes RR seems to be a huge advocate of Mac OS. 
Just look at their website, their press releases, jaguar this, jaguar 
that.

As Geoff mentioned, you can get an additional license for Express @ 
$75, to do your debugging on Windows.

Personally I would rather pay an extra $75 than to move over to Windows 
for my main development platform. If you are that easily swayed to 
abandon Mac OS then maybe there are other reasons & you would do it 
anyways?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 22 11:46:02 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 22 11:46:02 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <32F51737-BC61-11D7-B782-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB42B6A6.31172%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> Personally I would rather pay an extra $75 than to move over to Windows
> for my main development platform.

If you move your email to Windows as well you'll pay far more than $75
dealing with viruses. ;)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 12:23:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Jul 22 12:23:00 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02/New pricing
In-Reply-To: <76.2fe7c7ab.2c4ea4f3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030722171607.84811.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>

--- SteelWeaver52 at aol.com wrote:
> A list reader said:
> 
> >For this software to continue to be useful, I need
> cross-platform 
> >capability. Most education people and many writers,
> like me, use 
> >MacIntosh, but the majority of people who will use
> this dictionary 
> >are PC users. I have been thinking that if it went
> well, I could maybe 
> >scrape together enough to buy the SBE. With the new
> pricing there 
> >is no way I can afford to buy into cross-platform
> capability.
> 
> [snip]  
> 
> +  There is some irony here.  I personally think
> your efforts are
> important.  But apparently the product is not
> important enough to 
> your "customers" that they would be willing to
> exchange a few 
> bucks for it, and thereby support it financially.  
> Yet, you are disappointed in a profit-making 
> corporation for not giving away the fruits of their
> labor for free.
> Wouldn't a more logical focus of your disappointment
> be those
> who have a vested interest in your product by way of
> culture and
> history, rather than those who have no vested
> interest?
> 
> ---Tom Nally, New Orleans
> 

Hi Tom,

I know this reply might be considered as bordering on
political comments (which have no place here), but I'd
still like to point out that life on the reservations
does not allow for much money to be spent on anything.
And I'm sure I don't have to tell you that a lot of
people are having a hard time in the current state of
the global economy, and that one of the first things
to get axed from the budget, is support for this type
of non-profit efforts.
If you'd like to learn more about life on the
reservations or other Native American issues, there
are plenty of websites to visit. And if people would
like to discuss this further _OFF_LIST_ , well don't
hesitate to reply to janschenkel at yahoo.com

Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 22 12:32:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 22 12:32:01 2003
Subject: testing on Linux
Message-ID: <5DE6856E-BC69-11D7-B782-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

I don't know how many of you develop or deploy your apps on Linux, but 
if you don't have a Linux machine, there is an easy solution you can 
use to test your apps.

http://www.knoppix.org/

Knoppix is a Linux distribution that boots from a CD. It's very 
advanced and up to date. It auto-detects hardware correctly even on 
weird laptop systems.

You can download the ISO image for free and burn it, or mail-order a CD.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Tue Jul 22 12:44:01 2003
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Tue Jul 22 12:44:01 2003
Subject: understanding modeless stacks on OS X
In-Reply-To: <E0FE5B80-BC08-11D7-A7EA-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <0B424D5A-BC6B-11D7-99EA-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 10:53 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> I have a preferences stack that I want to have the pinstripe 
> background pattern on OS X, and I want to get rid of the ugly black 
> box around the default button (OS X appearance manager button).
>
> In the IDE, I just set the style to modeless, and it looks correct. In 
> a standalone, the stack seems to be toplevel because there is a gray 
> background instead of pinstripes and there is a black box around the 
> default button. However, the stack reports that it is modeless. Here 
> is the handler used to open the prefs stack.
>
> on mouseUp
>   set the loc of stack "Prefs" to the screenloc
>   go stack "Prefs" -- also tried "as modeless"
>   answer the style of stack "Prefs" -- says "modeless"
> end mouseUp
>
> Again, in the IDE, this handler shows a modeless stack that appears 
> how I want it to. In standalone, it looks bad. Is this a bug?
>
>

I am relatively new to Rev, but I remember seeing in the distribution 
builder a checkbox for using the REV IDE colors.  Uncheck that box and 
everything should be cool for you.



Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From themacguy at macosx.com  Tue Jul 22 12:49:01 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Tue Jul 22 12:49:01 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <200307221602.MAA32201@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D82B8880-BC6B-11D7-8135-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

If I follow what you are saying, I need to buy an Express license so I 
can continue my final development/tweaking under Windows, then transfer 
the project back to my Mac for the final distribution build so I won't 
get the annoying splash screen (that I would otherwise get if I built 
the project on the PC). It seems like a reasonable solution and I am 
slapping myself that I didn't see it (and obviously missed Geoff's 
posting regarding this). If that is all that is different (splash vs no 
splash), then I can build the distribution on both platforms (for PC) 
and double-check that there are no other differences that building on 
"the other platform" introduced.

As far as "abandoning" the Mac goes, I used to work for Apple and was 
their K-12 AE for my local territory. I bleed in six colors. However, 
the fact that I would need to buy an additional license when I am truly 
only running it on one computer at a time is bothersome. I'll just have 
to pass the costs on to my customers (which is reasonable).

Though I am "themacguy", I can see the benefits of the PC. In fact, I 
just built a "small-form-factor" unit which sits on the shelf and uses 
my Mac keyboard and trackball (via KVM).

Perhaps I'll complain less when the "special pricing" for renewals is 
posted.

Regards,
Barry


On Tuesday, Jul 22, 2003, at 10:02 America/Denver, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:26:08 -0600
> Subject: Re: Rev killing the Mac platform?
> From: Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com>
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 10:02  AM, Barry Levine wrote:
>>
>> With Macs at under 4% of the market, guess what I'll have to choose?
>> Apple would not be pleased.
>
> So how is Rev "Rev killing the Mac platform"? This doesn't make sense
> and it's not fair. In my eyes RR seems to be a huge advocate of Mac OS.
> Just look at their website, their press releases, jaguar this, jaguar
> that.
>
> As Geoff mentioned, you can get an additional license for Express @
> $75, to do your debugging on Windows.
>
> Personally I would rather pay an extra $75 than to move over to Windows
> for my main development platform. If you are that easily swayed to
> abandon Mac OS then maybe there are other reasons & you would do it
> anyways?



From bvlahos at mac.com  Tue Jul 22 13:19:01 2003
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Tue Jul 22 13:19:01 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <E7717368-BC5D-11D7-BF9E-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <FF3E2E43-BC6F-11D7-AF5F-000393C44AE0@mac.com>

The Mac becomes the best universal platform to develop on. I've written 
a number of apps on the Mac and then test them on other platforms.

On the few occasions where I see a problem I simply make a change to 
the code on the Mac and do another test build and test the standalone 
on the target platform. I've encountered very few cross platform issues 
period and this system has worked very well for me. I know a number of 
other folks on this list feel a strong need to do a lot of debugging on 
the target platform but this has not been my experience.

Bill Vlahos

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 09:02  AM, Barry Levine wrote:

> Just in case you haven't given this more thought, the Studio edition 
> pricing seems to indicate that if I wish to develop on the Mac but do 
> any final "tweaks" to my Windows distribution, I must do it on my Mac. 
> Currently I have Rev installed on both my Mac -and- my PC. Of course, 
> as I have a KVM switch, I only use one installation at any given time 
> (therefore I am staying within my current licensing). When I need to 
> tweak a distribution for the PC, I often find it easier to simply move 
> the project over to the PC and do the final development for that 
> platform over there. The new pricing structure would seem to preclude 
> this.
>
> So my question to the Rev crew is this: If I renew (SBE - to - 
> Studio), will my reg# be functional for both the Mac and PC IDE 
> versions or are you forcing me to choose?
>
> With Macs at under 4% of the market, guess what I'll have to choose? 
> Apple would not be pleased.
>
> Barry
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From tuviah at runrev.com  Tue Jul 22 13:49:00 2003
From: tuviah at runrev.com (Tuviah Snyder)
Date: Tue Jul 22 13:49:00 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1643 - 13 msgs
References: <200307221341.JAA27122@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00f001c35081$0cf8a190$afbe040a@user>

>4) If this is not a bug, please help and point me to some xml rev
>documentation. Or it is something to do with the uniEncode() and
uniDecode()
>functions?
revXML uses libXML which is UTF-8 compatible. So use uniencode with UTF-8.


>The problem is that the htmltext of fields is xml based, so including it
>in an xml tree and restoring it should work whatever the diacritics,
>shouldn't it?
Only well formed HTML is valid XML.

Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought



From tuviah at runrev.com  Tue Jul 22 14:00:01 2003
From: tuviah at runrev.com (Tuviah Snyder)
Date: Tue Jul 22 14:00:01 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1636 - 13 msgs
References: <200307210024.UAA21804@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <010801c35082$87f6e0e0$afbe040a@user>

>How exactly is Unicode supported with RTF in Revolution?  I would like
>to save a UTF-8 encoded RTF file -- but simply putting the rtfText of
>field "suchandsuch" to url "blahblah"  produces garbage if the field
>"suchandsuch" contains Unicode text.
RTF does support unicode text, but the unicode text is encoded a multibyte
and tagged with the appropriate language so other RTF readers can read it.
You should not need to encode the RTF file using UTF-8. Should be enough to
simply put the rtftext of field "suchandsuch" into url "blah.rtf"

Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 22 14:10:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 22 14:10:00 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <D82B8880-BC6B-11D7-8135-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <22FE29DB-BC77-11D7-B782-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 11:42  AM, Barry Levine wrote:

> If I follow what you are saying, I need to buy an Express license so I 
> can continue my final development/tweaking under Windows, then 
> transfer the project back to my Mac for the final distribution build 
> so I won't get the annoying splash screen (that I would otherwise get 
> if I built the project on the PC). It seems like a reasonable solution 
> and I am slapping myself that I didn't see it (and obviously missed 
> Geoff's posting regarding this).

Yep it was quite an active thread, I bet a lot of people missed that 
suggestion by Geoff. I'll append the message. I would buy the Studio 
license for Mac, and an Express version of Windows. Then you could 
build for Mac OS Classic too.

> As far as "abandoning" the Mac goes, I used to work for Apple and was 
> their K-12 AE for my local territory. I bleed in six colors. However, 
> the fact that I would need to buy an additional license when I am 
> truly only running it on one computer at a time is bothersome. I'll 
> just have to pass the costs on to my customers (which is reasonable).

It is kind of bothersome. The one license for the IDE on 11 platforms 
was too good to last I guess. :-)

> Though I am "themacguy", I can see the benefits of the PC. In fact, I 
> just built a "small-form-factor" unit which sits on the shelf and uses 
> my Mac keyboard and trackball (via KVM).
>
> Perhaps I'll complain less when the "special pricing" for renewals is 
> posted.

It will be interesting to see what they offer.

--
  From: Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com>
Date: Thu Jul 17, 2003  12:43:22  AM America/Denver
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing
Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)

No -- if you don't need the other features of the Enterprise edition, 
you could buy the Studio edition for Windows for $199, and the Express 
edition for Mac for $75. This combination would allow you to build for 
any platform, and debug natively on Windows and OS X, for $274.

Also note that the Enterprise edition is currently $599, which is 
roughly $400 cheaper than it has ever been. (At least in the six years 
of history I'm familiar with)

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 07:52  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> Um...something seems very wrong here. It's going to cost $1199 to do 
> any
> kind of real cross-platform development!?!?! According to this list, I 
> am
> going to need to develop under windows, and if I want test and debug
> something for the Mac I will need to either pay $1199, or test on the 
> mac
> using the free version and WRITE DOWN all the error bugs, since I 
> can't edit
> scripts longer than 10 lines on my test machine!?!?
>

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com

--

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 22 14:24:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 22 14:24:01 2003
Subject: XML and HTML
In-Reply-To: <00f001c35081$0cf8a190$afbe040a@user>
Message-ID: <06780DC4-BC79-11D7-9225-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 12:42 PM, Tuviah Snyder wrote:

>> The problem is that the htmltext of fields is xml based, so including  
>> it
>> in an xml tree and restoring it should work whatever the diacritics,
>> shouldn't it?
> Only well formed HTML is valid XML.

I believe HTML needs a DTD to define HTML entity references.  At least,  
that's my understanding from the recent conversation and my little XML  
pocket reference (which may be out-of-date).

Dar

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Tue Jul 22 15:06:00 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Tue Jul 22 15:06:00 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <BB42B6A6.31172%ambassador@fourthworld.com> 
References: <BB42B6A6.31172%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030722200022.55076.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Richard Gaskin writes: 

> Alex Rice wrote: 
> 
>> Personally I would rather pay an extra $75 than to move over to Windows
>> for my main development platform.
> 
> If you move your email to Windows as well you'll pay far more than $75
> dealing with viruses. ;) 
> 
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin 
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
=============
Wow Richard, that is s definitive sounding almost "urban legend"-like 
statement! However, as a Windows user for all but the first year it came 
out, I have not spent dollar one in either avoiding viruses or by problems 
caused by viruses on any of my Windows systems! 

miscdas 



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 15:12:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Jul 22 15:12:01 2003
Subject: unclear on the concept, or major report printing bugs?
In-Reply-To: <E7FDC2CE-B8B4-11D7-9111-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <20030722200457.54953.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com> wrote:
> create a mainstack "main"
> add a field "news" with lot of text in it to card 1
> of "main"
> create a substack "report"
> add a report object to card 1 of "report"
> in the report object properties select field "news"
> of stack "main", 
> then click Apply
> now report object magically turns into a field? (OK-
> I assume that's 
> supposed to happen)
> now resize the report object height to fit it's
> content (several pages 
> tall)
> resize stack "report" to fit the report object 
> (several pages tall)
> open Report Builder on stack "report" and use
> default settings
> click Print Report
> --
> what is output is:
> 1 full page, with a the bottom line of text chopped
> in half. margins OK 
> on page 1.
> the second page is 75% empty space, with some text
> at the bottom 
> running off the page.
> it should have been 4 or 5 pages.
> 
> 
> Alex Rice

Hi Alex,

Coming back from a viral infection-enduced hiatus, and
after having waded through a huge truckload of posts,
I noticed that nobody replied to the above post -- so
I figured I'd have a go at it.

First of all, the report object acts as a kind of
portal : the original object is cloned and placed on
the card when you click the "Apply" button. If you
resize the report viewer object, it will lose that
size and formatting when you hit "Apply" again.
When you use the menu to go to the next page, the
report generator checks if there happens to be a field
of the same name on the next card in the source stack.
If so, the text from that field is put in the field in
the report stack.

When printing time comes, the report generator is
supposed to try and print the updated card, and if
it's too big, print it over multiple pages.
However, the algorithm doesn't care if it's slicing a
field in half ; it just divides up the card into
slices the size of what fits between the header and
footer.
The header will be placed on the first page, the
footer on the last page. And tt won't scroll any
fields for you, either.

If you're looking to print the text of a single field,
revPrintField might be a better choice.
In case you're feeling adventurous and want to learn
more about the report generator inner workings, have a
look at the 'revPrintBack' backscript.

You'll see in that backScript that you can trap the
'revChangePage' message in your source stack and
update the data in a field dynamically with say, the
content of a field in a database ?
Hooking up revChangePage with revDBQueryGoToRecord
sounds like a very interesting plan to me ;-)

Hope this gets you closer to a solution,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 15:38:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Jul 22 15:38:01 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <20030722200022.55076.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <20030722203106.11141.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>

--- miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:
> Richard Gaskin writes: 
> 
> > Alex Rice wrote: 
> > 
> >> Personally I would rather pay an extra $75 than
> to move over to Windows
> >> for my main development platform.
> > 
> > If you move your email to Windows as well you'll
> pay far more than $75
> > dealing with viruses. ;) 
> > 
> > -- 
> >  Richard Gaskin 
> >  Fourth World Media Corporation
> >  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database
> on any site
> > 
>
___________________________________________________________
> =============
> Wow Richard, that is s definitive sounding almost
> "urban legend"-like 
> statement! However, as a Windows user for all but
> the first year it came 
> out, I have not spent dollar one in either avoiding
> viruses or by problems 
> caused by viruses on any of my Windows systems! 
> 
> miscdas 
> 

Well I for one am very happy that my Norton AntiVirus
software captures the five infected emails I get in my
home mailbox per week -- too bad it couldn't save me
from the real world-virus that had unmentionable
effects on my metabolism.
There are some very nasty viruses out there, as quite
a few of our customers can say who didn't get NAV and
lost quite a few things on their hard drives or found
sensitive files had been sent to a random person in
their address book. Not to mention the spyware that we
found on their hard drives.

This morning one of my colleagues showed me an
HTML-formatted email with a VBScript in it that would
eject all your removable media. Even if that's just a
prank, it goes to show that many things can be easily
accomplished by malevolent minds.
And when I compare the things I have to face on my
Outlook-equipped Win2K machine at work, to the safety
of my MacOSX iBook, I can only support Richard's
claim.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 22 15:45:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 22 15:45:01 2003
Subject: unclear on the concept, or major report printing bugs?
In-Reply-To: <20030722200457.54953.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5B0B8FD6-BC84-11D7-B782-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 02:04  PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:
> Coming back from a viral infection-enduced hiatus, and
> after having waded through a huge truckload of posts,
> I noticed that nobody replied to the above post -- so
> I figured I'd have a go at it.

Welcome back, glad you are still with us!

> However, the algorithm doesn't care if it's slicing a
> field in half ; it just divides up the card into
> slices the size of what fits between the header and
> footer.

This is surprising. For some reason I thought the Reports feature could 
do at least some basic pagination of big cards, since it offers 1-up or 
N-up options.

> In case you're feeling adventurous and want to learn
> more about the report generator inner workings, have a
> look at the 'revPrintBack' backscript.

Yes I was reading the backscript and it appeared to me that it should 
have been able to paginate a tall card. I guess I misread the 
transcript.

> You'll see in that backScript that you can trap the
> 'revChangePage' message in your source stack and
> update the data in a field dynamically with say, the
> content of a field in a database ?

Ah! that's interesting, I'll look into it.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 22 15:47:03 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 22 15:47:03 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <20030722200022.55076.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <BB42EF07.311B1%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:

>> If you move your email to Windows as well you'll pay far more than $75
>> dealing with viruses. ;)
>> 
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin 
>> Fourth World Media Corporation
>> Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>> ___________________________________________________________
> =============
> Wow Richard, that is s definitive sounding almost "urban legend"-like
> statement! However, as a Windows user for all but the first year it came
> out, I have not spent dollar one in either avoiding

Nearly all of the viruses that have cost us more than $7 billion dollars
worldwide over the last three years have been misreported in the press as
"computer viruses" when they are limited to Microsoft products.  From Code
Red on down, the legacy continues.

Sure, every OS has a virus or two now and then, but none have even come
close to the damage levels caused by Microsoft-specific viruses.

There may be any number of reasons for this: although virus damage has been
strongly disprortionate to marketshare, to be fair we could adjust a bit for
that; open source folks say it's because MS has too few eyes looking at the
code; Cringlely has his own theory at
<http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010802.html>.

I haven't met a Windows user who hasn't dealt with an emailed virus in the
last five years, and I've met no Mac or Linux user who has.  Your mileage
may vary; I just call 'em like I see 'em.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 22 15:57:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 22 15:57:01 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <20030722200022.55076.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <0D6A3A6B-BC86-11D7-B782-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 02:00  PM, miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:

> Wow Richard, that is s definitive sounding almost "urban legend"-like 
> statement! However, as a Windows user for all but the first year it 
> came out, I have not spent dollar one in either avoiding viruses or by 
> problems caused by viruses on any of my Windows systems!
> miscdas

Either this is a troll, or you are extremely lucky, or just unaware 
that your machines are totally saturated with virii. :-)

It's not an urban legend. MS Windows viruses, propagated mostly by MS 
Outlook users, cost businesses big bucks (*) when their networks go 
down or they have to scrub and reinstall Windows on infected computers. 
  You really ought to be running antivirus software on any Windows box. 
I have a subscription to Norton Antivirus for my windows box. Which BTW 
is nearly $75/year for a subscription :-)

(*) Not quantifiable, but in the billions
http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,49681,00.html

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Jul 22 15:57:30 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue Jul 22 15:57:30 2003
Subject: testing on Linux
In-Reply-To: <5DE6856E-BC69-11D7-B782-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <5DE6856E-BC69-11D7-B782-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <1058906993.2820.35.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 19:24, Alex Rice wrote:
> I don't know how many of you develop or deploy your apps on Linux, but 
> if you don't have a Linux machine, there is an easy solution you can 
> use to test your apps.
> 
> http://www.knoppix.org/
> 
> Knoppix is a Linux distribution that boots from a CD. It's very 
> advanced and up to date. It auto-detects hardware correctly even on 
> weird laptop systems.
> 
> You can download the ISO image for free and burn it, or mail-order a CD.
> 
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Hi Alex, List,

Agreed ! Knoppix is a great way to go to test Linux.

I use for my own Suse issues to run my x86 prod servers (fast install,
clean management of the dependencies, clean remote admin via OpenSSH,
fine firewall tools, very active mailing lists in about security and
oracle tasks under Suse (my prefered issues : the 8.0 pro and 8.2 pro,
8.1 Pro is not as good).

On the PPC platform, the Suse 7.3 is much as a little old and i use yet
the YellowDog 3.0, witch works perfectly out of the box, even on the ATI
Readon 7500 32 Mo based IBook 2.2.

Hope this help.
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From themacguy at macosx.com  Tue Jul 22 16:12:03 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Tue Jul 22 16:12:03 2003
Subject: using the PC instead of the Mac
In-Reply-To: <200307221939.PAA08628@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3C28803E-BC88-11D7-BC34-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

True, true. I do no eMailing from the PC (except using Yahoo right on 
the web). In fact, I've not even provided any account info to Outlook 
specifically because of the issues regarding how Microsoft macro 
"viruses" love to use Outlook to propagate themselves. I also backup my 
Rev folder to CD almost daily.

Barry

On Tuesday, Jul 22, 2003, at 13:39 America/Denver, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

>> If you move your email to Windows as well you'll pay far more than $75
>> dealing with viruses. ;)
>>
--------------------------------------------------------



From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Jul 22 16:20:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue Jul 22 16:20:00 2003
Subject: Corrupted stack
In-Reply-To: <200304241602.MAA12669@www.runrev.com>
References: <200304241602.MAA12669@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bb4357082113@[69.19.173.183]>

Ouch!  I lost a stack while working in 2.0

The stack still appears on my hard drive and is 572 K  in size. So 
there is something there.

I  tried to open it in RR 1.1.1 and I got a message "Stack corrupted; 
check for ~ backup."

I searched my drive for a tilde file and found nothing.

I'm afraid I've been spoiled by RR's reliability and took no precautions.

Any ideas on recovery?

Depressed,

Jim


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 16:25:03 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul 22 16:25:03 2003
Subject: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
In-Reply-To: <FCD50856-BC04-11D7-B829-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <20030722211834.73464.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org>
wrote:
> I am using a check box button to indicate to
> the user that he is or is  
> not connected to the internet.
> I don't want the user  
> to be able to click the button 

> Or perhaps there is a preferred strategy to
> accomplish this goal other  
> than use of a check button...

how about a field with text describing what
you want, and the last word toggling
between "On" and "Off" according to your code?

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 16:35:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Jul 22 16:35:01 2003
Subject: unclear on the concept, or major report printing bugs?
In-Reply-To: <5B0B8FD6-BC84-11D7-B782-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <20030722212755.48839.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 02:04  PM, Jan
> Schenkel wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> > However, the algorithm doesn't care if it's
> slicing a
> > field in half ; it just divides up the card into
> > slices the size of what fits between the header
> and
> > footer.
> 
> This is surprising. For some reason I thought the
> Reports feature could 
> do at least some basic pagination of big cards,
> since it offers 1-up or 
> N-up options.
> 
> > In case you're feeling adventurous and want to
> learn
> > more about the report generator inner workings,
> have a
> > look at the 'revPrintBack' backscript.
> 
> Yes I was reading the backscript and it appeared to
> me that it should 
> have been able to paginate a tall card. I guess I
> misread the 
> transcript.
> 

When you're in the backScript, go to the handler
revPrintMultiplePageCard ; it calls the function
revCalculateNumberPages() which employs a tactic of
straight slicing and dicing.

On the other hand, revPrintField uses the pageHeights
property to determine how to split up the lines of
text in the field so they fit on a page.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Jul 22 16:50:03 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue Jul 22 16:50:03 2003
Subject: Corrupted stack
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bb4357082113@[69.19.173.183]>
References: <200304241602.MAA12669@www.runrev.com>
	 <a05210602bb4357082113@[69.19.173.183]>
Message-ID: <1058910185.2820.53.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 23:12, Jim Hurley wrote:
> Ouch!  I lost a stack while working in 2.0
> 
> The stack still appears on my hard drive and is 572 K  in size. So 
> there is something there.
> 
> I  tried to open it in RR 1.1.1 and I got a message "Stack corrupted; 
> check for ~ backup."
> 
> I searched my drive for a tilde file and found nothing.
> 
> I'm afraid I've been spoiled by RR's reliability and took no precautions.
> 
> Any ideas on recovery?
> 
> Depressed,
> 
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Try to see if a temporary backup issue of the corrupted stack is still
available on the hard disk. If yes, save a copy of this stack and try to
reopen it, directly. Test the revert command too of the corrupted stack.
Both this methods have only chance to work if you did'nt quit the RR
session along witch the stack has been saved in its actual corrupted
state.

If this don't work, try to restore the stack in searching among the
temporary files you can see on your hard drive in using tools like
"Norton Utilites".

Hope this can help.
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 16:52:03 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul 22 16:52:03 2003
Subject: Basic question - how to use a variable to refer to an object (button) -Thanks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0307212003220.17896-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <20030722214515.12560.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu> wrote:
> Don't feel bad, Erik -- done it myself (and
> felt like a royal idiot!)

thanks, this will surely apply soon, but i was
replying. there seems to be a problem with the
hookup to the list. anyway my response was:

labels can be numbers. "60" is fine.
names should not. "b60" is prefered.

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From ttasovac at Princeton.EDU  Tue Jul 22 17:27:00 2003
From: ttasovac at Princeton.EDU (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Tue Jul 22 17:27:00 2003
Subject: RTF and Unicode
In-Reply-To: <010801c35082$87f6e0e0$afbe040a@user>
Message-ID: <546A6FCE-BC92-11D7-AB89-0003937B95F4@princeton.edu>

On Utorak, Jul 22, 2003, at 20:53 Europe/Belgrade, Tuviah Snyder wrote:
>>
> RTF does support unicode text, but the unicode text is encoded a  
> multibyte
> and tagged with the appropriate language so other RTF readers can read  
> it.
> You should not need to encode the RTF file using UTF-8. Should be  
> enough to
> simply put the rtftext of field "suchandsuch" into url "blah.rtf"


That's what I was hoping for, but alas this does NOT happen.  Saving a  
UTF-8 encoded field with Cyrillic text as an rtf file produces garbage  
that looks like this if you open it in TextEdit:

??????a je, ????e?? ??a??eo ????e ??o ???????????? ????a??a ??  
????e???? o??????eo ??????a??????...

or like this if you open it in BBEdit:

{\rtf\mac  
{\colortbl\red0\green0\blue0;\red0\green0\blue128;\red0\green128\blue0;\ 
red0\green128\blue128;\red128\green0\blue0;\red128\green0\blue128;\red12 
8\green128\blue0;\red192\green192\blue192;\red128\green128\

Looks very interesting, but it's not exactly Cyrillic... :)

Toma


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 22 18:10:01 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue Jul 22 18:10:01 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <0D6A3A6B-BC86-11D7-B782-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <FBB27D0F-BC98-11D7-9451-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


> On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 02:00  PM, miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:
>
>> Wow Richard, that is s definitive sounding almost "urban legend"-like 
>> statement! However, as a Windows user for all but the first year it 
>> came out, I have not spent dollar one in either avoiding viruses or 
>> by problems caused by viruses on any of my Windows systems!
>> miscdas


Either your time is worthless or it is worth your time getting a free 
solution by removing offending executables on your hard drives after 
looking them up on anti-virus web sites on your own. I just can't 
believe you have never received a computer virus on a win32 machine. I 
can understand fixing it yourself. I would like to know if the Guinness 
Book of Records should be contacted about this? This has to be a 
record...

:-)

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From themacguy at macosx.com  Tue Jul 22 18:52:02 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Tue Jul 22 18:52:02 2003
Subject: Images disappearing when printing stack
Message-ID: <9A9DF3DE-BC9E-11D7-BC34-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

I've built a stack that has four cards. On each card is a player object 
that might reference a jpeg or a QT movie stored on the hard drive. 
When I navigate to each card I can see either the current frame of the 
movie of the jpeg appearing in each player object. When I print from 
the Mac, everything prints including the current frame of the player 
object. However, when I print from Windows, the player objects appear 
empty. Their borders are there but the content is just blank white. Any 
idea what I'm not doing?

Thanks,
Barry



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 22 19:46:04 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 22 19:46:04 2003
Subject: Help for a non-code newbie!
In-Reply-To: <68E1AEA6-BBC2-11D7-8315-000A9566DE9E@rof.net>
Message-ID: <1582F842-BCA6-11D7-8BC0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 03:29 PM, Lars Brehmer wrote:

> 1. Is there a way to hide multiple objects without a line for each one  
> in the handler?

Any time you find you are repeating the same bunch of line over and  
over, you have an opportunity to create a separate custom handler.

For example:

on hidePies
   hide field "Apple"
   hide field "Pumpkin"
   hide field "Cherry"
end hidePies

Break out such code so that the piece (of code, not pie) has meaning to  
you.

You can even pass parameters, like this:

on changePie showing
   set the visible of field "Apple" to showing
   set the visible of field "Pumpkin" to showing
   set the visible of field "Cherry" to showing
end changePie

It costs little to show when something is already visible.  The same  
applies to hide when it is not visible.  If you find that the state of  
how things are visible can be defined either in one or more global or  
script local variables, or in handler parameters, then you can have one  
handler that updates all visibility, even those that don't need to be  
changed.

on updateVisibilities  kitchenClosed, beforeNoon, bossIsAround
    ...
end updateVisibilities

Use this whenever the visibilities need to change.  When you learn  
about openCard, you may decide to put it into that handler, too.

> If I have to have a code line for each object and there are 8 fields  
> and 8 buttons on each card, the stack gets real big real fast.

Hmmm.  This looks like a opportunity for sharing code and maybe even  
objects.

Handlers that are used by all cards (and their objects) can be put into  
the stack script.  If the card is not specified in such handlers, then  
control references (such as field) apply to those on the current card.

A group can be shared on multiple cards.  If you want the text in  
fields in the shared group to be different on each card, then make sure  
"share text" is unchecked in the Property Inspector.  One way to share  
is to remove the group (not delete!) and then place (not paste) it on  
each card it should be on.  Do not delete a shared group unless you  
really want to get rid of all uses.  The script of the group is  
available to all objects in the group.

Wherever you find a lot of repetition, you might find a solution that  
shares handlers or objects.  Think about what all those cards have in  
common.  ...about what all those fields have in common.  Ask the list  
with details if you need more info.  There are ways to share handlers  
and objects in other ways.

Dar Scott






************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From ian at 1492.ca  Tue Jul 22 20:56:02 2003
From: ian at 1492.ca (Ian Gordon)
Date: Tue Jul 22 20:56:02 2003
Subject: Images disappearing when printing stack
In-Reply-To: <200307222347.TAA17864@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D0E835BA-BCAF-11D7-A866-000393DAA2B4@1492.ca>

Hi

I had a problem with disappearing jpegs  when printing (last year), on 
the mac platform. I believe it was related to insufficient memory 
allocation (mac os 9). Maybe something similar on windows?

just a thought

Ian

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 07:47  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:45:41 -0600
> Subject: Images disappearing when printing stack
> From: Barry Levine <themacguy at macosx.com>
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
> I've built a stack that has four cards. On each card is a player object
> that might reference a jpeg or a QT movie stored on the hard drive.
> When I navigate to each card I can see either the current frame of the
> movie of the jpeg appearing in each player object. When I print from
> the Mac, everything prints including the current frame of the player
> object. However, when I print from Windows, the player objects appear
> empty. Their borders are there but the content is just blank white. Any
> idea what I'm not doing?
>
> Thanks,
> Barry



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Jul 22 21:24:03 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Jul 22 21:24:03 2003
Subject: understanding modeless stacks on OS X
In-Reply-To: <1030722155713.3f1cd239.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.87219@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <5175A01D-BCB3-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I only get the black border in a stack where I have extended a tabbed 
button to use it's striped background over the whole card area. This 
happens to me in the development environment as well as in a  
standalone.

I just tested a single stack app with radio buttons to change mode and 
a default button. The background changed as expected and the default 
button looked fine in all modes. Are you sure there isn't something 
else interfering, like a background pattern or color set in the 
mainStack, or a large tabbed button?

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 03:57  pm, Alex Rice wrote:

> I have a preferences stack that I want to have the pinstripe 
> background pattern on OS X, and I want to get rid of the ugly black 
> box around the default button (OS X appearance manager button).
>
> In the IDE, I just set the style to modeless, and it looks correct. In 
> a standalone, the stack seems to be toplevel because there is a gray 
> background instead of pinstripes and there is a black box around the 
> default button. However, the stack reports that it is modeless. Here 
> is the handler used to open the prefs stack.
>
> on mouseUp
>   set the loc of stack "Prefs" to the screenloc
>   go stack "Prefs" -- also tried "as modeless"
>   answer the style of stack "Prefs" -- says "modeless"
> end mouseUp
>
> Again, in the IDE, this handler shows a modeless stack that appears 
> how I want it to. In standalone, it looks bad. Is this a bug?
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/




From tuviah at runrev.com  Tue Jul 22 22:15:01 2003
From: tuviah at runrev.com (Tuviah Snyder)
Date: Tue Jul 22 22:15:01 2003
Subject: RTF and Unicode
References: <200307222347.TAA17907@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <002001c350c7$b1343ad0$afbe040a@user>

>That's what I was hoping for, but alas this does NOT happen.  Saving 
You know what to do then..report it to bugzilla and send a sample stack.

Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 22 22:31:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 22 22:31:01 2003
Subject: understanding modeless stacks on OS X
In-Reply-To: <5175A01D-BCB3-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <1C84B99A-BCBD-11D7-A0F4-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 08:13  PM, Sarah wrote:

> I only get the black border in a stack where I have extended a tabbed 
> button to use it's striped background over the whole card area. This 
> happens to me in the development environment as well as in a  
> standalone.

Yes, a tabbed button is on the card, however, the black border goes 
away when the style is modeless (with pinstripe background). So the 
issue is not the tabbed button, it's that I can't get the striped 
background to appear in standalone.

> I just tested a single stack app with radio buttons to change mode and 
> a default button. The background changed as expected and the default 
> button looked fine in all modes. Are you sure there isn't something 
> else interfering, like a background pattern or color set in the 
> mainStack, or a large tabbed button?

Yes- but did you build a standalone and get the same results? Here is a 
recipe with no tabbed button involved.

- New mainstack Untitled 1
- New substack Untitled 2
- Put a button on Untitled 1.
- Set the script of the button to

on mouseup
   go stack "Untitled 2"
end mouseup

- set the style of stack Untitled 2 to modeless
- in browse mode, click on button 1
- Untitled 2 appears fine w/ pinstripe background

- now build a standalone of the mainstack Untitled 1.
- run it and click button 1.
- Untitled 2 appears with a _gray_ background.

Thanks for the help Sarah. Hopefully I'm missing something obvious.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Tue Jul 22 23:12:01 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Tue Jul 22 23:12:01 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <20030722200022.55076.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
References: <BB42B6A6.31172%ambassador@fourthworld.com> <20030722200022.55076.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <20030723121711.184C.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

> Wow Richard, that is s definitive sounding almost "urban legend"-like 
> statement! However, as a Windows user for all but the first year it came 
> out, I have not spent dollar one in either avoiding viruses or by problems 
> caused by viruses on any of my Windows systems! 

In the gray-hat world, the common truism is that the operator of the
first decently functional trojan in often turns out to be the best
possible sysad for the naive user.

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Tue Jul 22 23:27:01 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Tue Jul 22 23:27:01 2003
Subject: RTF and Unicode
In-Reply-To: <546A6FCE-BC92-11D7-AB89-0003937B95F4@princeton.edu>
References: <010801c35082$87f6e0e0$afbe040a@user> <546A6FCE-BC92-11D7-AB89-0003937B95F4@princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <20030723131343.184E.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

> On Utorak, Jul 22, 2003, at 20:53 Europe/Belgrade, Tuviah Snyder wrote:
> >>
> > RTF does support unicode text, but the unicode text is encoded a  
> > multibyte
> > and tagged with the appropriate language so other RTF readers can read  
> > it.
> > You should not need to encode the RTF file using UTF-8. Should be  
> > enough to
> > simply put the rtftext of field "suchandsuch" into url "blah.rtf"
> 
> 
> That's what I was hoping for, but alas this does NOT happen.  Saving a  
> UTF-8 encoded field with Cyrillic text as an rtf file produces garbage  
> that looks like this if you open it in TextEdit:
> 
> $Bc`FE%&c`Fd/oc`FD%3(Ba je, $Bc`HE*d(B??$B%[%%(Be$Bc`Fd2'(B $Bc`Fd/q(Ba$Bc`FD%3(Beo $Bc`HE*d(B??$Bci!"(Be $Bc`FD!&(Bo $Bc`Fd0-c`HE2d(B??$B%F%*c`FP%%c`Fd/oc`HEK
c`Fd2&c`HE'Bc`HE-B(B $Bc`Fd/o(B  
> $Bc`HE*d(B??$Bci!"(Be$Bc`FD%3c`HE1
(Bo$Bc`FD!&c`HE2d(B??$BchAF(Bo $Bc`HE*d(B??$B%F.d(B??$Bci!"(Ba$Bc`HE(d(B??$B%[%%c`Fd/o(B...

(which will likely be further confused by the fact that my mail client
is going to try to say this is shift-JIS ...)

You might try specifying the encoding when opening with text edit. I
make no promises, but I find that I do often have to specify the
encoding when working with non-latin text.

> or like this if you open it in BBEdit:
> 
> {\rtf\mac  
> {\colortbl\red0\green0\blue0;\red0\green0\blue128;\red0\green128\blue0;\ 
> red0\green128\blue128;\red128\green0\blue0;\red128\green0\blue128;\red12 
> 8\green128\blue0;\red192\green192\blue192;\red128\green128\
> 
> Looks very interesting, but it's not exactly Cyrillic... :)

You're right. That is not cyrillic. It's a color table. The part that
would be cyrillic would be further down, I suspect.

And definitely try specifying the encoding when opening the file with
BBEdit.

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From dan at shafermedia.com  Wed Jul 23 00:12:03 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed Jul 23 00:12:03 2003
Subject: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
In-Reply-To: <200307221341.JAA27122@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <42BD9A0D-BCCB-11D7-8520-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 06:41 AM, Jan Schenkel suggested to 
Sannyasin:


> Turn off the autoHilite of the checkbox, and leave the
> script of the checkbox empty. Now it won't be hilited
> unless you set its hilite from a script.
>
Pardon the intrusion, but it may be worth noting that an unclickable 
checkbox is a violation of Apple's Human Interface Guidelines and of 
general UI design rules about user expectations. I'd respectfully 
suggest some other way of indicating the user's connected state than a 
checkbox he can't click on or change. I guarantee you'll have 
frustrated and confused users.

A text label whose contents changes from CONNECTED to NOT CONNECTED 
would be as easy to design and code and be much more meaningful in the 
bargain.

Just MHO.



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Jul 23 00:14:00 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed Jul 23 00:14:00 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <20030722200022.55076.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIMELACOAA.chipp@chipp.com>

I'm with miscdas on this one...besides, the cost evens out with Mac users
having to pay the *luxury tax* (cost of equipment and OS upgrades each
year;-). Though I agree that Macs, with under 2.5% marketshare
(http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-1027370.html?tag=nl), are a much smaller
target for viruses than Windows.

-Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of
> miscdas at boxfrog.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 3:00 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Rev killing the Mac platform?
>
>
> Richard Gaskin writes:
>
> > Alex Rice wrote:
> >
> >> Personally I would rather pay an extra $75 than to move over to Windows
> >> for my main development platform.
> >
> > If you move your email to Windows as well you'll pay far more than $75
> > dealing with viruses. ;)
> >
> > --
> >  Richard Gaskin
> >  Fourth World Media Corporation
> >  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
> >  ___________________________________________________________
> =============
> Wow Richard, that is s definitive sounding almost "urban legend"-like
> statement! However, as a Windows user for all but the first year it came
> out, I have not spent dollar one in either avoiding viruses or by
> problems
> caused by viruses on any of my Windows systems!
>
> miscdas
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From katir at hindu.org  Wed Jul 23 00:19:02 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Wed Jul 23 00:19:02 2003
Subject: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
In-Reply-To: <42BD9A0D-BCCB-11D7-8520-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <463F0562-BCCC-11D7-B829-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 07:05  PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> From: Dan Shafer <dan at shafermedia.com>
> Date: Tue Jul 22, 2003  7:05:21  PM Pacific/Honolulu
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 06:41 AM, Jan Schenkel suggested to 
> Sannyasin:
>
>
>> Turn off the autoHilite of the checkbox, and leave the
>> script of the checkbox empty. Now it won't be hilited
>> unless you set its hilite from a script.
>>
> Pardon the intrusion, but it may be worth noting that an unclickable 
> checkbox is a violation of Apple's Human Interface Guidelines and of 
> general UI design rules about user expectations. I'd respectfully 
> suggest some other way of indicating the user's connected state than a 
> checkbox he can't click on or change. I guarantee you'll have 
> frustrated and confused users.

No intrusion whatsoever... in fact, advice well taken... frankly, I 
have never even looked at Apple's HIG or any UI design guide... too 
busy... but now is the time as more and more we are developing tools 
for general public use... Do I need to purchase a book or what do you 
recommend as the best way to get up to speed.
>
> A text label whose contents changes from CONNECTED to NOT CONNECTED 
> would be as easy to design and code and be much more meaningful in the 
> bargain.

Certainly easily done... i'll do that, thanks for the tip!


>
> Just MHO.
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org



From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Wed Jul 23 00:26:01 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Wed Jul 23 00:26:01 2003
Subject: Text Recognition tool
In-Reply-To: <200307211400.KAA10266@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB43E75E.2036%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

Does anyone use an external for text recognition of digitized images? Or any
idea where to find some code for it?

I know about a DDL under Windows but it would be great to find some code
under MacOSX.

Jo?l G



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 00:26:25 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul 23 00:26:25 2003
Subject: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
In-Reply-To: <42BD9A0D-BCCB-11D7-8520-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <20030723051919.18869.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dan Shafer <dan at shafermedia.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 06:41 AM, Jan Schenkel
> suggested to 
> Sannyasin:
> 
> 
> > Turn off the autoHilite of the checkbox, and leave
> the
> > script of the checkbox empty. Now it won't be
> hilited
> > unless you set its hilite from a script.
> >
> Pardon the intrusion, but it may be worth noting
> that an unclickable 
> checkbox is a violation of Apple's Human Interface
> Guidelines and of 
> general UI design rules about user expectations. I'd
> respectfully 
> suggest some other way of indicating the user's
> connected state than a 
> checkbox he can't click on or change. I guarantee
> you'll have 
> frustrated and confused users.
> 
> A text label whose contents changes from CONNECTED
> to NOT CONNECTED 
> would be as easy to design and code and be much more
> meaningful in the 
> bargain.
> 
> Just MHO.
> 

I couldn't agree more, Dan ; but I just wanted to show
it was technically feasible, because I'm adventurous
that way *grin*
Yet another solution would be to have a button with
icon 201233 (a lovely checkmark) whose visibility you
can toggle.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Jul 23 00:32:02 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed Jul 23 00:32:02 2003
Subject: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
In-Reply-To: <463F0562-BCCC-11D7-B829-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKELCCOAA.chipp@chipp.com>

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AquaHIGui
delines/index.html

--Chipp

>> No intrusion whatsoever... in fact, advice well taken... frankly, I
> have never even looked at Apple's HIG or any UI design guide... too
> busy... but now is the time as more and more we are developing tools
> for general public use... Do I need to purchase a book or what do you
> recommend as the best way to get up to speed.




From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Wed Jul 23 00:33:01 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Wed Jul 23 00:33:01 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <FBB27D0F-BC98-11D7-9451-000A95859272@earthlink.net> 
References: <FBB27D0F-BC98-11D7-9451-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20030723052756.84030.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Mark Brownell writes: 

> 
>> On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 02:00  PM, miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote: 
>> 
>>> Wow Richard, that is s definitive sounding almost "urban legend"-like 
>>> statement! However, as a Windows user for all but the first year it came 
>>> out, I have not spent dollar one in either avoiding viruses or by 
>>> problems caused by viruses on any of my Windows systems!
>>> miscdas
>  
> 
> Either your time is worthless or it is worth your time getting a free 
> solution by removing offending executables on your hard drives after 
> looking them up on anti-virus web sites on your own. I just can't believe 
> you have never received a computer virus on a win32 machine. I can 
> understand fixing it yourself. I would like to know if the Guinness Book 
> of Records should be contacted about this? This has to be a record... 
> 
> :-) 
> 

==============
As too often occurs, you've added much more to my post than was actually in 
it. Look again: nowhere does it say that I have never had a virus on my hard 
drive; I have. I simply said that I have not made cash outlays to avoid 
them, to elimnate them, or fix any damage. I also did not say some kind of 
"cost" was not incurred; "cost" is often measured as time. Some small amount 
of time is invested. I use free virus scanners on a regular basis. I have 
backups of "important" files. 

My reply was a succinct, direct reponse to a likewise succinct, direct 
comment. When formulating a reply, I read nothing into the comment, nor 
attempted some type of exegesis. 

miscdas


From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Wed Jul 23 00:39:01 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Wed Jul 23 00:39:01 2003
Subject: Stack corruption
In-Reply-To: <200307211716.NAA20785@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB43EA67.2037%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

I experienced my first stack corruption yesterday... a bit disappointed
because I found RR very stable!

Is there a recoverable tool? Or should I read the file in a text editor and
try to rebuild manually?

How to avoid such corruption? I got it after importing about 200 files (4KB
per file) that I put into a field after creating a new card for each file.
There is also a save this stack instruction every 25 imports.

Jo?l G



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 23 01:37:03 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed Jul 23 01:37:03 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <20030723052756.84030.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <7F10B976-BCD7-11D7-92F3-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 10:27  PM, miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:

> As too often occurs, you've added much more to my post than was 
> actually in it.

Have I written to you and done this before?

> Look again: nowhere does it say that I have never had a virus on my 
> hard drive; I have.

Then my assumption was correct, you did have a virus on your windows 
machine before.

>  I simply said that I have not made cash outlays to avoid them, to 
> elimnate them, or fix any damage. I also did not say some kind of 
> "cost" was not incurred; "cost" is often measured as time. Some small 
> amount of time is invested. I use free virus scanners on a regular 
> basis. I have backups of "important" files.

Thank you for sharing that, I was hoping that you would have. Like I 
said "I can understand doing it yourself."

> My reply was a succinct, direct reponse to a likewise succinct, direct 
> comment. When formulating a reply, I read nothing into the comment, 
> nor attempted some type of exegesis.
> miscdas

I was intrigued by the urban-legend comment. The implications that an 
urban-legend [probable metaphor] could be read from this:

> If you move your email to Windows as well you'll pay far more than $75
> dealing with viruses. ;) --

... this is a stretch to imply that there is not enough truth for $75 
worth of damage to be considered unbelievable, especially for other 
people that can't fix things themselves. It is far more believable that 
defending operating systems on user-lists ever changes anyone's 
preferred decisions. I stopped counting Windows viruses after the 
number went over 10,000 many years ago; perhaps that is just an 
urban-legend comment as well.





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From dan at shafermedia.com  Wed Jul 23 02:37:03 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed Jul 23 02:37:03 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1647 - 15 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200307230538.BAA28933@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8B760371-BCDF-11D7-8520-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 10:38 PM, Sannyasin said:

> frankly, I
> have never even looked at Apple's HIG or any UI design guide... too
> busy... but now is the time as more and more we are developing tools
> for general public use... Do I need to purchase a book or what do you
> recommend as the best way to get up to speed.

I'm sure there are lots of books on good UI design. The one I always 
enjoyed reading the most was Bruce Tognazzini's "Tog on Interface," but 
it's probably a bit dated by now. Anything by Alan Cooper's bound to be 
good as well.




From ttasovac at Princeton.EDU  Wed Jul 23 02:38:01 2003
From: ttasovac at Princeton.EDU (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Wed Jul 23 02:38:01 2003
Subject: RTF and Unicode
In-Reply-To: <20030723131343.184E.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>
Message-ID: <4989F7EC-BCDF-11D7-AB89-0003937B95F4@princeton.edu>

On Sreda, Jul 23, 2003, at 06:22 Europe/Belgrade, Joel Rees wrote:
>> That's what I was hoping for, but alas this does NOT happen.  Saving a
>> UTF-8 encoded field with Cyrillic text as an rtf file produces garbage
>
> You might try specifying the encoding when opening with text edit. I
> make no promises, but I find that I do often have to specify the
> encoding when working with non-latin text.
> .
>
> And definitely try specifying the encoding when opening the file with
> BBEdit.
>
Dear Joel,

I should have mentioned this in my first posting -- specifying the 
encoding doesn't make a difference in this case: both automatic, utf8 
and utf16 produces the same kind of garbage.

T.
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From ttasovac at Princeton.EDU  Wed Jul 23 02:39:59 2003
From: ttasovac at Princeton.EDU (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Wed Jul 23 02:39:59 2003
Subject: RTF and Unicode
In-Reply-To: <002001c350c7$b1343ad0$afbe040a@user>
Message-ID: <6FBB6D8C-BCDF-11D7-AB89-0003937B95F4@princeton.edu>

of course.  bugzilla is my new best friend... :)

On Sreda, Jul 23, 2003, at 05:08 Europe/Belgrade, Tuviah Snyder wrote:

>> That's what I was hoping for, but alas this does NOT happen.  Saving
> You know what to do then..report it to bugzilla and send a sample 
> stack.
>
> Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
> Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Wed Jul 23 03:37:01 2003
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic Thebault)
Date: Wed Jul 23 03:37:01 2003
Subject: Use image as char : What's the command ?
Message-ID: <3F1E475D.9000001@laposte.net>

Hello,

i searched in the documentation, but i didn't found it, what's the 
command to display an image in a text ?

Thanks



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Wed Jul 23 03:52:03 2003
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (tkuypers at pandora.be)
Date: Wed Jul 23 03:52:03 2003
Subject: LibURL & file-encoding question
Message-ID: <BB4417C9.B3E0%tkuypers@pandora.be>

Here is a nice one... I think I am doing something wrong, but I just can?t
figure out what or where...

I need to download an XML-file from an Oracle-server hosted on a webserver.
The file I receive is around 800 kb in size, downloading works like a
charm...

But... When I open the file in Explorer, halfway there is a special char
which prevents loading the rest of the XML-file.
When I open this downloaded file in Notepad, there indeed is a special char
(the ? in Spanish text for instance).

Saving in Notepad, you have an option ?Encoding?. When choosing UTF-8 as the
encoding and saving this file, Explorer opens the XML-file without any
problems...

So... How do I download an amount of XML-data from a database and save the
file with UTF-8 encoding?

Seems so simple, maybe I should get a real job, because I don?t seem to get
this part working :-((

Who saves my life, somebody.... pleaseeeeeeeee.....

Ton Kuypers



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Jul 23 04:12:13 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed Jul 23 04:12:13 2003
Subject: quit
Message-ID: <CD6413DD-BCEC-11D7-81C6-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hi


i work on Mac OS X

The quit menu is in the application menu

I don't find how I can trap the message "quit" when the user select 
this item ???

I've written

on quit
    -- doStuff
end quit

doens'nt work


I work on a French system and like to replace the "quit" menu with 
"quitter"
Don't find how ???




Thank you
Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 04:15:02 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul 23 04:15:02 2003
Subject: Use image as char : What's the command ?
In-Reply-To: <3F1E475D.9000001@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <20030723090750.40697.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ludovic Thebault <ludovic.thebault at laposte.net>
wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> i searched in the documentation, but i didn't found
> it, what's the 
> command to display an image in a text ?
> 
> Thanks
> 

Bonjour Ludovic,

The 'imageSource' property is your friend :

  set the imageSource of char 1 of line 3 of field \
      "Foo" to "bar.gif"

will replace the first character on the third line
with the illustrious bar.gif image.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From curry at pair.com  Wed Jul 23 04:24:01 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Wed Jul 23 04:24:01 2003
Subject: HIG (How to make an Unclickable Check Box)
In-Reply-To: <200307230538.BAA28933@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307230538.BAA28933@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb43fd11bb1c@[68.86.46.40]>

>  Pardon the intrusion, but it may be worth noting that an unclickable
>  checkbox is a violation of Apple's Human Interface Guidelines and of
>  general UI design rules about user expectations. I'd respectfully
>  suggest some other way of indicating the user's connected state than a
>  checkbox he can't click on or change. I guarantee you'll have
>  frustrated and confused users.

There are also another couple of icons that look like a round 
indicator light off and on, those might not be bad with the button's 
text align set to right, then you can also have not too different 
from the size and shape the checkbox would have been.

However, about Apple--I can no longer consider them to be the 
ultimate example of good interface, as they were before.

Curry


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 04:26:03 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul 23 04:26:03 2003
Subject: LibURL & file-encoding question
In-Reply-To: <BB4417C9.B3E0%tkuypers@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <20030723091855.38708.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "tkuypers at pandora.be" <tkuypers at pandora.be> wrote:
> Here is a nice one... I think I am doing something
> wrong, but I just can?t
> figure out what or where...
> 
> I need to download an XML-file from an Oracle-server
> hosted on a webserver.
> The file I receive is around 800 kb in size,
> downloading works like a
> charm...
> 
> But... When I open the file in Explorer, halfway
> there is a special char
> which prevents loading the rest of the XML-file.
> When I open this downloaded file in Notepad, there
> indeed is a special char
> (the ? in Spanish text for instance).
> 
> Saving in Notepad, you have an option ?Encoding?.
> When choosing UTF-8 as the
> encoding and saving this file, Explorer opens the
> XML-file without any
> problems...
> 
> So... How do I download an amount of XML-data from a
> database and save the
> file with UTF-8 encoding?
> 
> Seems so simple, maybe I should get a real job,
> because I don?t seem to get
> this part working :-((
> 
> Who saves my life, somebody.... pleaseeeeeeeee.....
> 
> Ton Kuypers
> 

Hi Ton,

Untested, but seems logical enough :

  put uniEncode(tXMLData,"UTF8") into \
      URL("file:" & tFilePath)

You may also have to change your xml data a bit so it
contains
  <?xml encoding="UTF-8" ?>

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Jul 23 05:02:01 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed Jul 23 05:02:01 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIMELACOAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIMELACOAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <1058954051.2820.145.camel@www.kmax.net>

Hi Chipp,

Using for my own Suse-Linux servers in production mode and OSX laptops
in test mode, it seems me that an OSX server deployment is probably
cheaper than the Linux ones.

Suse = two new distro peer year (aka about US $ 180) and a fine tunning
need of the server by a security engineer (aka US $ 1500).

OSX = one distro peer year (aka about US $ 130) and a simple tunning
need of the server by my own (aka US $ 0).

On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 07:07, Chipp Walters wrote:
> I'm with miscdas on this one...besides, the cost evens out with Mac users
> having to pay the *luxury tax* (cost of equipment and OS upgrades each
> year;-). Though I agree that Macs, with under 2.5% marketshare
> (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-1027370.html?tag=nl), are a much smaller
> target for viruses than Windows.
> 
> -Chipp
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> > [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of
> > miscdas at boxfrog.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 3:00 PM
> > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Subject: Re: Rev killing the Mac platform?
> >
> >
> > Richard Gaskin writes:
> >
> > > Alex Rice wrote:
> > >
> > >> Personally I would rather pay an extra $75 than to move over to Windows
> > >> for my main development platform.
> > >
> > > If you move your email to Windows as well you'll pay far more than $75
> > > dealing with viruses. ;)
> > >
> > > --
> > >  Richard Gaskin
> > >  Fourth World Media Corporation
> > >  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
> > >  ___________________________________________________________
> > =============
> > Wow Richard, that is s definitive sounding almost "urban legend"-like
> > statement! However, as a Windows user for all but the first year it came
> > out, I have not spent dollar one in either avoiding viruses or by
> > problems
> > caused by viruses on any of my Windows systems!
> >
> > miscdas
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Wed Jul 23 05:51:03 2003
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (tkuypers at pandora.be)
Date: Wed Jul 23 05:51:03 2003
Subject: LibURL & file-encoding question
In-Reply-To: <20030723091855.38708.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB4433B3.B3F3%tkuypers@pandora.be>

Jan,

I figured your solution out about 3 minutes after I sent my mail, but too
bad... It's a no-go :-(

What happens:

Use Explorer to fetch the XML data from the database:
  -> Shows perfect in the browser.
Save the file as an XML-file and re-open it:
  -> Parsing error
Open the XML in Notepad and save with UTF8 encoding:
  -> Shows perfect in the browser.

Then:

Get the url in RR and put it into tXMLData
put uniEncode(tXMLData,"UTF8") into URL("file:" & tFilePath)

Result: < ? x m l  v e r s i o n = " 1 . 0 " etc.
The second byte is obviously not used in the XML, so encoding does what it
has to do, but messes things up.

The XML does not have the encoding-part in the header, when I add it before
saving there is no difference.

Do you know if the XML in the database (Oracle) needs to be "formatted" or
transmitted in a special way by any chance? The strange thing is that
Explorer works with it fine, but saving the file screws it up...

Warm regards,

Ton Kuypers



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul 23 06:37:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul 23 06:37:00 2003
Subject: quit
In-Reply-To: <CD6413DD-BCEC-11D7-81C6-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <F175B9B2-BD00-11D7-8A8D-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bonjour Yves,

> Hi
>
> i work on Mac OS X
>
> The quit menu is in the application menu
> I don't find how I can trap the message "quit" when the user select 
> this item ???
>
> I've written
>
> on quit
>    -- doStuff
> end quit
>
> doens'nt work
>
> I work on a French system and like to replace the "quit" menu with 
> "quitter"
> Don't find how ???

I am not sure, but i don't think that you can trap "quit" per se.

Two ideas from out of my head:

1. Write your own "quit"-handler a la:

on good_bye
   ### do your stuff
   quit
end good_bye

And put this into the script of your menu-bar item "Quit"...

2. Maybe "closestackrequest" will work for you...
(deja vu? ;-)

You could inset a buttons script into front that can handle "close...."
so it will work with every stack that is going to be closed.
Which is of course the case when the user quits :-)

Hope that helps...

> Thank you
> Greetings.
> Yves COPPE
>
> yvescoppe at skynet.be

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 06:42:02 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul 23 06:42:02 2003
Subject: LibURL & file-encoding question
In-Reply-To: <BB4433B3.B3F3%tkuypers@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <20030723113536.54621.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "tkuypers at pandora.be" <tkuypers at pandora.be> wrote:
> Jan,
> 
> I figured your solution out about 3 minutes after I
> sent my mail, but too
> bad... It's a no-go :-(
> 
> What happens:
> 
> Use Explorer to fetch the XML data from the
> database:
>   -> Shows perfect in the browser.
> Save the file as an XML-file and re-open it:
>   -> Parsing error
> Open the XML in Notepad and save with UTF8 encoding:
>   -> Shows perfect in the browser.
> 
> Then:
> 
> Get the url in RR and put it into tXMLData
> put uniEncode(tXMLData,"UTF8") into URL("file:" &
> tFilePath)
> 
> Result: < ? x m l  v e r s i o n = " 1 . 0 " etc.
> The second byte is obviously not used in the XML, so
> encoding does what it
> has to do, but messes things up.
> 
> The XML does not have the encoding-part in the
> header, when I add it before
> saving there is no difference.
> 
> Do you know if the XML in the database (Oracle)
> needs to be "formatted" or
> transmitted in a special way by any chance? The
> strange thing is that
> Explorer works with it fine, but saving the file
> screws it up...
> 
> Warm regards,
> 
> Ton Kuypers
> 

Hmm, interesting. Have you tried comparing the
different files ?
- the 'Source' from the 'View' menu in IE
- the saved file from IE
- the saved file from Notepad
- the file from RR

Maybe that can point in a certain direction.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 06:50:02 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul 23 06:50:02 2003
Subject: quit
In-Reply-To: <CD6413DD-BCEC-11D7-81C6-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <20030723114316.56662.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Yves COPPE <yvescoppe at skynet.be> wrote:
> Hi
> 
> 
> i work on Mac OS X
> 
> The quit menu is in the application menu
> 
> I don't find how I can trap the message "quit" when
> the user select 
> this item ???
> 
> I've written
> 
> on quit
>     -- doStuff
> end quit
> 
> doens'nt work
> 
> 
> I work on a French system and like to replace the
> "quit" menu with 
> "quitter"
> Don't find how ???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you
> Greetings.
> Yves COPPE
> 

Hi Yves,

I can't check right now, but IIRC, Revolution will
take the last item of the 'File' menu and move it to
the 'Application' menu -- so if it's called "Quitter",
it should be named "Quitter" as well.
And I think that when you choose the "Quit" item from
there, the 'File' button gets a menuPick message --
you can always insert a menuPick handler in your
mainStack stack script and check the target.
If you still have no luck, I can test it in a bit when
the PowerBook comes back.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From tkuypers at pandora.be  Wed Jul 23 07:02:01 2003
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (tkuypers at pandora.be)
Date: Wed Jul 23 07:02:01 2003
Subject: LibURL & file-encoding question
In-Reply-To: <20030723113536.54621.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB44444C.B405%tkuypers@pandora.be>

Jan,

All data "seems" identical, but I haven't really done a full compare because
when I just open them in notepad, then there allready is a conversion done
to view the file...

I set the Oracle-guys back to work, they messed up something, let them try
to solve it first before I start doing a lot of work...

I will keep you informed!

Ton

> From: Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:35:36 -0700 (PDT)
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: LibURL & file-encoding question
> 
> Hmm, interesting. Have you tried comparing the
> different files ?
> - the 'Source' from the 'View' menu in IE
> - the saved file from IE
> - the saved file from Notepad
> - the file from RR



From lale at phenotyping.com  Wed Jul 23 07:06:01 2003
From: lale at phenotyping.com (Lars Lewejohann)
Date: Wed Jul 23 07:06:01 2003
Subject: Palm Database Viewer
Message-ID: <3F1E77FF.9080000@phenotyping.com>

Hi,

About a month ago I asked:

 >(...) whether there are any templates/experiences using revolution to 
read/write
 >Palm databases.

Well, now there is. I wrote a simple Palm Database Viewer that at least 
works
well on WinXP with Palm databases produced by my own Palm software. You
can download the stack from http://www.tinyredbook.com/PDBV.zip .

Known issues:
-The record format is supposed to be NULL terminated string data -  data 
saved
  in other format (e.g., integer) will not be displayed (and saved) 
correctly
-The App/Sortinfo block and Categories are ignored (my databases don't 
use them)

I have not tested this on Linux or Mac systems.  Especially on Mac I 
have no idea
whether PDBs saved with my prog will be installable since I don't  know  
a) if  a
"Mac file type" is needed and b) if so, what is the "Mac file type" for 
Palm databases.

Any comments are welcome!

Kind regards,

Lars



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 07:11:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul 23 07:11:01 2003
Subject: LibURL & file-encoding question
In-Reply-To: <BB44444C.B405%tkuypers@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <20030723120340.57478.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "tkuypers at pandora.be" <tkuypers at pandora.be> wrote:
> Jan,
> 
> All data "seems" identical, but I haven't really
> done a full compare because
> when I just open them in notepad, then there
> allready is a conversion done
> to view the file...
> 
> I set the Oracle-guys back to work, they messed up
> something, let them try
> to solve it first before I start doing a lot of
> work...
> 
> I will keep you informed!
> 
> Ton
> 

Actually, I'm not sure it's an Oracle problem. When
the server responds to IE, it will send along a
content-type which may very well say "xml/utf-8" or
something similar.
However, what NotePad saves as extra that might clue
in IE, is a bit of a mistery.

By the way, I presume you're using WordPad instead of
NotePad ? NotePad wouldn't convert anything AFAIK, and
instead display the raw ASCII.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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From jeanne at runrev.com  Wed Jul 23 09:11:09 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Wed Jul 23 09:11:09 2003
Subject: quit
In-Reply-To: <F175B9B2-BD00-11D7-8A8D-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <CD6413DD-BCEC-11D7-81C6-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <v0313030dbb44440be01a@[10.0.1.10]>

At 4:29 AM -0700 7/23/03, Klaus Major wrote:
>> i work on Mac OS X
>>
>> The quit menu is in the application menu
>> I don't find how I can trap the message "quit" when the user select
>> this item ???
>
>I am not sure, but i don't think that you can trap "quit" per se.



When all else fails.... ;-)



"How to respond to quitting an OS X application

On OS X systems, the "Quit" menu item is part of the Application menu,
which is displayed by the operating system rather than by the application.
Because of this, choosing "Quit" on OS X systems does not send a menuPick
message, so you cannot handle quitting in a menuPick handler.

Instead, choosing "Quit" sends an Apple Event (class "aevt", ID "quit") to
the application. If you don't intercept this Apple Event in an appleEvent
handler, Revolution sends a shutdownRequest message in response to the
Apple Event. To respond to the user choosing "Quit", handle either of these
messages.

Tip:  For easiest cross-platform development, place all the code you want
to execute on quitting in a shutdownRequest handler."

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Jul 23 09:28:01 2003
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed Jul 23 09:28:01 2003
Subject: Palm Database Viewer
Message-ID: <OFD0493101.7200B6B6-ON85256D6C.004C2E14@sealedair.com>

On 07/23/2003 at 07:56 AM, Lars Lewejohann <lale at phenotyping.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> About a month ago I asked:
> 
>>(...) whether there are any templates/experiences using revolution to
> read/write
>>Palm databases.
> 
> Well, now there is. I wrote a simple Palm Database Viewer that at least
> works
> well on WinXP with Palm databases produced by my own Palm software. You
> can download the stack from http://www.tinyredbook.com/PDBV.zip .
> 
> Any comments are welcome!
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Lars

Lars,

I'm not sure why, but my perception of programming for PalmOS has always 
seemed somewhat mystical. Fear of the unknown, I guess. But I am happy to 
see a Rev developer building apps to bridge over to the PDA relm. There 
was a thread on this list over a year ago, asking RunRev to offer PalmOS 
as yet another supported platform. Wouldn't it be great to be able to 
build tiny apps on your PC/Mac/*nix system that will run on a PDA? I 
really enjoyed opening various .PDB files with your viewer just to have a 
look at their guts. I looked at your Palm app "Tiny Red Book" on your 
website... nice. Great work!

Regards,
Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com



From bill at igame3d.com  Wed Jul 23 09:41:01 2003
From: bill at igame3d.com (WIlliam Griffin)
Date: Wed Jul 23 09:41:01 2003
Subject: Message Box woes & editing Revolution
Message-ID: <1DE5AD46-BD1C-11D7-BB67-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

Typing a command and hitting return in Message box results in no action.
Whats the deal?

Also how do I move the "Edit script" submenu item to a button on the 
inspector palette?
I spend much time editing scripts which ammounts to
1. select object
2. edit group
3. find inspector under some other window
4. hold down drop down menu
5. select edit script
6. find script window under other windows.

There must be a way of making this app intuitive and to do things I 
expect it to do.

Revolution is moving my windows around to make room for that toolbar
at the top of the screen. I've spent a lot of time adjusting my 
interface for my users sake,
this revolution "move your interface"  glitch is not welcome.


Thanks.
Bill Griffin
info at igame3d.com
www.igame3d.com



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 09:57:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul 23 09:57:00 2003
Subject: Message Box woes & editing Revolution
In-Reply-To: <1DE5AD46-BD1C-11D7-BB67-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
Message-ID: <20030723145023.79995.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

--- WIlliam Griffin <bill at igame3d.com> wrote:
> Typing a command and hitting return in Message box
> results in no action.
> Whats the deal?
> 

Hi Bill,

There are two types of message boxes : a 1-line
message box and a multiple-line message box.
You can toggle by clicking the two left-most buttons
in the toolbar of the Message box window.

If you are on the one-line message box, and you typed
a command and hit return, and no error appears below,
then it must have worked, but maybe there was no
visible result.
What command were you trying ?

> Also how do I move the "Edit script" submenu item to
> a button on the 
> inspector palette?
> I spend much time editing scripts which ammounts to
> 1. select object
> 2. edit group
> 3. find inspector under some other window
> 4. hold down drop down menu
> 5. select edit script
> 6. find script window under other windows.
> 

You could use the Application Browser (in the 'Tools'
menu) and right-click on the object whose script you
want to edit.
Another aproach is to click the 'Select grouped'
button in the toolbar first, so you can select
individual objects within groups ; then you can once
again right-click on the object, or click the 'Script'
button in the toolbar.

> There must be a way of making this app intuitive and
> to do things I 
> expect it to do.
> 

Check out the Preferences (in the 'Edit' menu) to
customise some behaviour of the Application Browser
and the contextual menus.
You can even edit the script of object by merely
hovering over them and pressing a key combination.

> Revolution is moving my windows around to make room
> for that toolbar
> at the top of the screen. I've spent a lot of time
> adjusting my 
> interface for my users sake,
> this revolution "move your interface"  glitch is not
> welcome.
> 

You can always tinker the content of the global
'windowBoundingRect' property.

> 
> Thanks.
> Bill Griffin
> 

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul 23 10:14:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul 23 10:14:01 2003
Subject: Message Box woes & editing Revolution
Message-ID: <200307231506.h6NF6fw49910@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Actually, I am having what sounds like the same problem with the message box, and have been avoiding it but putting things into temporary button scripts.

For example, I create a new stack, create a button, then type "hide button 1" into the msg box, and hit return.

The button doesn't hide, the command I typed remains in the message box, with the insertion point blinking at the end of the command, and the results section remains unchanged.

This is in Rev 2.01, under Windows XP Home.


From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Jul 23 10:14:28 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed Jul 23 10:14:28 2003
Subject: Corrupted stack
In-Reply-To: <200307222347.TAA17907@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307222347.TAA17907@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb44530ff950@[69.19.170.250]>

>__--
>
>Message: 9
>Subject: Re: Corrupted stack
>From: Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr>
>To: "use-revolution at lists.runrev.com" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Organization:
>Date: 22 Jul 2003 23:43:05 +0200
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 23:12, Jim Hurley wrote:
>>  Ouch!  I lost a stack while working in 2.0
>>
>>  The stack still appears on my hard drive and is 572 K  in size. So
>>  there is something there.
>>
>>  I  tried to open it in RR 1.1.1 and I got a message "Stack corrupted;
>>  check for ~ backup."
>>
>>  I searched my drive for a tilde file and found nothing.
>>
>>  I'm afraid I've been spoiled by RR's reliability and took no precautions.
>>
>>  Any ideas on recovery?
>>
>>  Depressed,
>>
>>  Jim
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  use-revolution mailing list
>>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>Try to see if a temporary backup issue of the corrupted stack is still
>available on the hard disk. If yes, save a copy of this stack and try to
>reopen it, directly. Test the revert command too of the corrupted stack.
>Both this methods have only chance to work if you did'nt quit the RR
>session along witch the stack has been saved in its actual corrupted
>state.
>
>If this don't work, try to restore the stack in searching among the
>temporary files you can see on your hard drive in using tools like
>"Norton Utilites".
>
>Hope this can help.
>--
>Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>
>Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
>Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif
>

Pierre,

Thanks for the tips. I'll see what Norton can do for me.

I am pessimistic however. I did something profoundly stupid. (I am a 
recovering Catholic; hence this need for confession.) I lost the 
stack in question while I was working on it. It just disappeared from 
the screen. I tried to reopen it from the open menu but Rev assumed 
it was already active. So I decided to shut down and start over. And, 
is my habit when closing RR, I *saved* all running stacks, thus, 
apparently saving the corruption. I suspect, therefore, that any 
files I find will also be corrupted.

Jim



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 10:28:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 10:28:00 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <20030723052756.84030.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <476BD946-BD21-11D7-ACD8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 11:27  PM, miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:
>
> My reply was a succinct, direct reponse to a likewise succinct, direct 
> comment. When formulating a reply, I read nothing into the comment, 
> nor attempted some type of exegesis.
> miscdas

miscdas, in western cultures, TIME = MONEY is a universal and widely 
used metaphor. What you thought was a succinct reply was unbelievable 
for me. When I think of viruses, I think of not only outlays of $ for 
virus scanning software, but mainly I think of the time, hassle and 
frustration of dealing with them.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From runrev at dicas.com  Wed Jul 23 10:45:03 2003
From: runrev at dicas.com (Deivy Petrescu)
Date: Wed Jul 23 10:45:03 2003
Subject: Beginner in Revolution
Message-ID: <9C6ADC90-BD23-11D7-8DCA-000393B02DBE@dicas.com>

Hi all,
I am beginning to work in Revolution Express (2.02).

I script (AppleScript) and I've worked with HyperTalk and HyperCard for 
a while. I still have all manuals on HC.
There is this agenda stack that I made with  HC that I am trying to 
port to Revolution. I'll use the opportunity to learn Revolution.
The info on Revolution and manuals available very, very skimpy to say 
the list.
One can colorize scripts in Revolution, but  I could not find where to 
set the colors or how are they set.
To absorb concepts I need to read.
Can  someone please direct me to where i can read, possible something 
like a manual and not just those help files that keep going everywhere 
without getting anywhere.... ?
My sincerest thanks for all help.


Deivy Petrescu



From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Jul 23 11:05:00 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed Jul 23 11:05:00 2003
Subject: Corrupted stack
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bb44530ff950@[69.19.170.250]>
References: <200307222347.TAA17907@www.runrev.com>
	 <a05210600bb44530ff950@[69.19.170.250]>
Message-ID: <1058975856.1144.4.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 17:06, Jim Hurley wrote:
> >__--
> >
> >Message: 9
> >Subject: Re: Corrupted stack
> >From: Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr>
> >To: "use-revolution at lists.runrev.com" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >Organization:
> >Date: 22 Jul 2003 23:43:05 +0200
> >Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >
> >On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 23:12, Jim Hurley wrote:
> >>  Ouch!  I lost a stack while working in 2.0
> >>
> >>  The stack still appears on my hard drive and is 572 K  in size. So
> >>  there is something there.
> >>
> >>  I  tried to open it in RR 1.1.1 and I got a message "Stack corrupted;
> >>  check for ~ backup."
> >>
> >>  I searched my drive for a tilde file and found nothing.
> >>
> >>  I'm afraid I've been spoiled by RR's reliability and took no precautions.
> >>
> >>  Any ideas on recovery?
> >>
> >>  Depressed,
> >>
> >>  Jim
> >>  _______________________________________________
> >>  use-revolution mailing list
> >>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> >Try to see if a temporary backup issue of the corrupted stack is still
> >available on the hard disk. If yes, save a copy of this stack and try to
> >reopen it, directly. Test the revert command too of the corrupted stack.
> >Both this methods have only chance to work if you did'nt quit the RR
> >session along witch the stack has been saved in its actual corrupted
> >state.
> >
> >If this don't work, try to restore the stack in searching among the
> >temporary files you can see on your hard drive in using tools like
> >"Norton Utilites".
> >
> >Hope this can help.
> >--
> >Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
> >
> >Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
> >Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif
> >
> 
> Pierre,
> 
> Thanks for the tips. I'll see what Norton can do for me.
> 
> I am pessimistic however. I did something profoundly stupid. (I am a 
> recovering Catholic; hence this need for confession.) I lost the 
> stack in question while I was working on it. It just disappeared from 
> the screen. 

If this occurs again, try always (from the message box) "set the visible
of window #stack xxx to true" before any thing else.


> I tried to reopen it from the open menu but Rev assumed 
> it was already active. So I decided to shut down and start over. And, 
> is my habit when closing RR, I *saved* all running stacks, thus, 
> apparently saving the corruption. I suspect, therefore, that any 
> files I find will also be corrupted.
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 11:05:34 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul 23 11:05:34 2003
Subject: Beginner in Revolution
In-Reply-To: <9C6ADC90-BD23-11D7-8DCA-000393B02DBE@dicas.com>
Message-ID: <20030723155831.88264.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Deivy Petrescu <runrev at dicas.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am beginning to work in Revolution Express (2.02).
> 
> I script (AppleScript) and I've worked with
> HyperTalk and HyperCard for 
> a while. I still have all manuals on HC.
> There is this agenda stack that I made with  HC that
> I am trying to 
> port to Revolution. I'll use the opportunity to
> learn Revolution.
> The info on Revolution and manuals available very,
> very skimpy to say 
> the list.
> One can colorize scripts in Revolution, but  I could
> not find where to 
> set the colors or how are they set.
> To absorb concepts I need to read.
> Can  someone please direct me to where i can read,
> possible something 
> like a manual and not just those help files that
> keep going everywhere 
> without getting anywhere.... ?
> My sincerest thanks for all help.
> 
> 
> Deivy Petrescu
> 

Hi Deivy,

First of all, welcome to the Revolution... and to the
list too :-) In view of your HyperCard background, you
should be able to get some work done quickly.

You might want to start with the Revolution
Documentation, section 'For New Developers'
Click on 'Experienced HyperCard or SuperCard
developer' to get an introduction to what's new for
you in view of your background.

Also, following the tutorials will be a lifesaver in
the vast ocean of Revolution's abilities. This may
also explain why the Revolution Documentation looks so
daunting : there's lots to describe, and trust me,
it's all in there.
Jeanne A.E. Devoto did an excellent job, reminding us
on a regular basis that we can find the answer to this
question under that header in the encyclopedia, and
that it would be good to read up on this how-to or
that cookbook recipe.

Go to the 'Help' menu, select Revolution
Documentation, go to the Roadmap, and click away ; you
might find the "How to" and "Cookbook" especially
interesting. Everything is cross-referenced by means
of the 'See also' menu buttons all over the place.

As for porting your HyperCard stack to Revolution, the
place on the web to visit is Jacqueline Landman Gay's
excellent tutorial on the topic. Link :
http://www.hyperactivesw.com/mctutorial/index.html

And whenever there's a question, this list is here for
you, with lots of people willing to answer questions,
help solve problems, etc.
As a pool of knowledge, this place competes with the
Great Lakes.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Jul 23 11:12:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed Jul 23 11:12:01 2003
Subject: Beginner in Revolution
In-Reply-To: <9C6ADC90-BD23-11D7-8DCA-000393B02DBE@dicas.com>
References: <9C6ADC90-BD23-11D7-8DCA-000393B02DBE@dicas.com>
Message-ID: <a05100303bb445fbbb065@[216.229.107.53]>

Hi Deivy,

>There is this agenda stack that I made with  HC that I am trying to 
>port to Revolution. I'll use the opportunity to learn Revolution.

Note that there are two important nuances between a "native" 
Revolution stack and a Rev stack created by opening and saving a 
HyperCard stack:  check out the stack properties, HCAddressing & 
dynamicPaths.  If you import HC stacks but want them to behave 
exactly like native RR stacks, you MUST change these properties

>The info on Revolution and manuals available very, very skimpy to 
>say the list.

You may have found info on where to get info or manuals skimpy; but I 
doubt you will be able to say that about the actual documentation, 
printed or electronic.  The problem is not that the information is 
not available, but rather that the complexity of the subject & mass 
of the documentation is so great.

I suggest the tutorials as a good place to start.  With your 
HyperCard experience, most everything except menus & multiple 
backgrounds should be old hat.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Wed Jul 23 11:14:56 2003
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Wed Jul 23 11:14:56 2003
Subject: quit
In-Reply-To: <v0313030dbb44440be01a@[10.0.1.10]>
Message-ID: <9567E370-BD27-11D7-9EA1-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>

Hi Yves,

I have tested the shutdownRequest handler and it does work fine.
Thanks Jeanne.

> I work on a French system and like to replace the "quit" menu with 
> "quitter"
> Don't find how ???

This is little bit more tricky.
Actually, when Rev builds the standalone, it defines the development 
region as to be English.
This property setup the system menus to be in English, like Quit but 
also all items in the Apple menu and the Help menu title.
To change them to be in French, you have to do the following (I just 
tested it on my Mac):
- launch the Property List Editor app - it's provided with the 
development tools from Apple
- open the file Info.plist located in your app package contents
- click on the triangle in front of root to list all properties
- the first property is CFBundleDevelopmentRegion, Class String, Value 
English
- double click on English to make it editable, and replace it with 
French
- save and close
- launch your standalone to see the result

Good luck

Thierry Arbellot

On Wednesday, Jul 23, 2003, at 15:56 Europe/Paris, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto 
wrote:

> At 4:29 AM -0700 7/23/03, Klaus Major wrote:
>>> i work on Mac OS X
>>>
>>> The quit menu is in the application menu
>>> I don't find how I can trap the message "quit" when the user select
>>> this item ???
>>
>> I am not sure, but i don't think that you can trap "quit" per se.
>
>
>
> When all else fails.... ;-)
>
>
>
> "How to respond to quitting an OS X application
>
> On OS X systems, the "Quit" menu item is part of the Application menu,
> which is displayed by the operating system rather than by the 
> application.
> Because of this, choosing "Quit" on OS X systems does not send a 
> menuPick
> message, so you cannot handle quitting in a menuPick handler.
>
> Instead, choosing "Quit" sends an Apple Event (class "aevt", ID 
> "quit") to
> the application. If you don't intercept this Apple Event in an 
> appleEvent
> handler, Revolution sends a shutdownRequest message in response to the
> Apple Event. To respond to the user choosing "Quit", handle either of 
> these
> messages.
>
> Tip:  For easiest cross-platform development, place all the code you 
> want
> to execute on quitting in a shutdownRequest handler."
>
> --
> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
> Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
> http://www.runrev.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 11:16:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Jul 23 11:16:01 2003
Subject: Corrupted stack
In-Reply-To: <1058975856.1144.4.camel@www.kmax.net>
Message-ID: <20030723160811.90597.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr> wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 17:06, Jim Hurley wrote:
> > [snip]
> > 
> > I am pessimistic however. I did something
> profoundly stupid. (I am a 
> > recovering Catholic; hence this need for
> confession.) I lost the 
> > stack in question while I was working on it. It
> just disappeared from 
> > the screen. 
> 
> If this occurs again, try always (from the message
> box) "set the visible
> of window #stack xxx to true" before any thing else.
> 

And also try from the message box :
  set the topLeft of stack "Foobar" to 100,100
just in case it got sent somewhere off-screen.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 11:27:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 11:27:00 2003
Subject: Beginner in Revolution
In-Reply-To: <9C6ADC90-BD23-11D7-8DCA-000393B02DBE@dicas.com>
Message-ID: <76BBB2B5-BD29-11D7-ACD8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 09:37  AM, Deivy Petrescu wrote:

> The info on Revolution and manuals available very, very skimpy to say 
> the list.

The documentation is available in the IDE (see Documentation icon in 
toolbar). Now it may at first appear to be skimpy because it appears in 
a small window and you see only about 12 topics. That's deceptive 
though. The documentation you see is very well written and voluminous. 
It's densely hyperlinked too. Things that have been very helpful for me:

The "See Also" links in the Transcript Dictionary

In the script editor, right-click or control-click to define a keyword 
in the dictionary. From the definition popup you can jump to the 
complete definition and explore related keywords.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From ttasovac at Princeton.EDU  Wed Jul 23 11:31:01 2003
From: ttasovac at Princeton.EDU (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Wed Jul 23 11:31:01 2003
Subject: Beginner in Revolution
In-Reply-To: <9C6ADC90-BD23-11D7-8DCA-000393B02DBE@dicas.com>
Message-ID: <CC337611-BD29-11D7-AB89-0003937B95F4@princeton.edu>

On Sreda, Jul 23, 2003, at 17:37 Europe/Belgrade, Deivy Petrescu wrote:

> Hi all,
> I am beginning to work in Revolution Express (2.02).

Is 2.02 really available?  The downloads page does not seem to have 
been updated yet.



From squance at elkvalley.net  Wed Jul 23 12:09:03 2003
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Wed Jul 23 12:09:03 2003
Subject: pi approximation day [OT]
In-Reply-To: <844F7F80-BB9B-11D7-B166-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <D455A5C5-BB99-11D7-9262-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <l03130301bb446fec2645@[192.168.1.101]>

>>
>>     put pi & LF & 22/7
>>
>> Appreciate wonders both large and very small.
>
>3.14159265358979323846
>3.142857
>


[I'm a little behind in handling list messages.]

Does the LF only work in RR2?

I got:  3.14159265358979323846LF3.142857

Dave




From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Wed Jul 23 12:15:01 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Wed Jul 23 12:15:01 2003
Subject: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
In-Reply-To: <42BD9A0D-BCCB-11D7-8520-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com> 
References: <42BD9A0D-BCCB-11D7-8520-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <20030723170916.1342.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Dan Shafer writes: 

> 
> On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 06:41 AM, Jan Schenkel suggested to 
> Sannyasin: 
> 
> 
>> Turn off the autoHilite of the checkbox, and leave the
>> script of the checkbox empty. Now it won't be hilited
>> unless you set its hilite from a script. 
>> 
> Pardon the intrusion, but it may be worth noting that an unclickable 
> checkbox is a violation of Apple's Human Interface Guidelines and of 
> general UI design rules about user expectations. I'd respectfully suggest 
> some other way of indicating the user's connected state than a checkbox he 
> can't click on or change. I guarantee you'll have frustrated and confused 
> users. 
> 
> A text label whose contents changes from CONNECTED to NOT CONNECTED would 
> be as easy to design and code and be much more meaningful in the bargain. 
> 
> Just MHO.

============
How about importing a red and a green graphic that look like LEDs? Green for 
connected, red for not. (Or, if you don't want anything fancy, just use the 
drawing tools and make a red and green circle right in Rev.)Hide and show as 
appropriate. 

miscdas 


From cm_sheffield at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 12:16:01 2003
From: cm_sheffield at yahoo.com (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Wed Jul 23 12:16:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02
Message-ID: <20030723170919.83055.qmail@web20418.mail.yahoo.com>

Where is this version 2.02 that everyone keeps talking
about?  Is it available yet?  Their web site mentions
it, and people on this list have mentioned using it,
but when I go to the downloads, it still says 2.01. 
Did I miss something?

Thanks,


=====
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
www.readnaturally.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From edgore at shinra.com  Wed Jul 23 12:45:04 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Wed Jul 23 12:45:04 2003
Subject: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
Message-ID: <200307231738.h6NHc9S97942@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

I'm guilty of doing this as well...

I have a number of attributes about an item and some of them can be set by the user and some of them are set automatically based on information the application has derived about the item.

I haven't worked on the Mac in some time, and I have never really looked around to see how other applications handle this situation.

I'm not really fond of using color as an indicator, since this has it's own set of problems (color perception, etc.), plus my application otherwise doesn't make use of color in the interface.

What are some other ways that people can think of to handle this situation?

Ideas I am coming up with off the top of my head include bulleting/un-bulleting, disabling/enabling the text indicator (perception problems again though), or simply hiding and showing the indicator text. Or maybe a graphic checkmark next to the text for the indicator - the lack of a framing box, and the visual difference between the check and the "X" of a checkbox might be enough. Does the mac still use an "X" in a checkbox, or does it use a cooler looking checkmark now - because that would make it confusing if I did that...

What other ideas do people have?

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: miscdas at boxfrog.com
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:09:15
>
>Dan Shafer writes: 
>
>> 
>> On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 06:41 AM, Jan
>Schenkel suggested to 
>> Sannyasin: 
>> 
>> 
>>> Turn off the autoHilite of the checkbox, and
>leave the
>>> script of the checkbox empty. Now it won't be
>hilited
>>> unless you set its hilite from a script. 
>>> 
>> Pardon the intrusion, but it may be worth noting
>that an unclickable 
>> checkbox is a violation of Apple's Human
>Interface Guidelines and of 
>> general UI design rules about user expectations.
>I'd respectfully suggest 
>> some other way of indicating the user's connected
>state than a checkbox he 
>> can't click on or change. I guarantee you'll have
>frustrated and confused 
>> users. 
>> 
>> A text label whose contents changes from
>CONNECTED to NOT CONNECTED would 
>> be as easy to design and code and be much more
>meaningful in the bargain. 
>> 
>> Just MHO.
>
>============
>How about importing a red and a green graphic that
>look like LEDs? Green for 
>connected, red for not. (Or, if you don't want
>anything fancy, just use the 
>drawing tools and make a red and green circle right
>in Rev.)Hide and show as 
>appropriate. 
>
>miscdas 
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From katir at hindu.org  Wed Jul 23 13:01:03 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Wed Jul 23 13:01:03 2003
Subject: HIG (How to make an Unclickable Check Box)
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00bb43fd11bb1c@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <B681E902-BD36-11D7-B829-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Good idea.. and Chipp, thanks for the URL, I downloaded the HIG PDF,  
though, as Curry says, whether everything Apple suggests is entirely  
user friendly is an open question. but the point is well taken. Living  
here in Hawaii in paradise, and being born with rose-colored glasses, I  
was a bit amazed to assist a brilliant, successful attorney visiting  
from Mauritius try to install my presentation and get it running from a  
CD on his new Toshiba laptop running Windows XP, and show this on a  
screen via a projector. Aside from the general obfuscation built into  
the Windows OS (how it every gained such market share is beyond me...)  
if the young man from Princeton who was here on a short summer work  
program had not been at hand to take  us through some of the set up, we  
both would have been lost: point being that the UI definitely has to be  
"obvious."  Don't assume just be cause it is a triangle pointing right  
that anyone knows this means to click it to go do the next card ;-)

And, because we don't want to be creating any of those "simpleton  
standalones" that will bring disrepute to Revolution or Himalayan  
Academy, we give anyone a license to do a scathing review of

go url  
"http://www.himalayanacademy.com/studyhall/yamas_niyamas/ 
Yamas_and_Niyamas.rev

and send me a  no hold's barred, you-can't-hurt-my-feelings,  UI  
violations report  (off list) of everything we did wrong.... After  
spending so many years writing xTalk RADs for in house production work,  
I don't mind getting put on track for the average user in cyberspace.

TIA

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org










On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 11:14  PM, curry wrote:

> From: curry <curry at pair.com>
> Date: Tue Jul 22, 2003  11:14:32  PM Pacific/Honolulu
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: HIG (How to make an Unclickable Check Box)
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>>  Pardon the intrusion, but it may be worth noting that an unclickable
>>  checkbox is a violation of Apple's Human Interface Guidelines and of
>>  general UI design rules about user expectations. I'd respectfully
>>  suggest some other way of indicating the user's connected state than  
>> a
>>  checkbox he can't click on or change. I guarantee you'll have
>>  frustrated and confused users.
>
> There are also another couple of icons that look like a round  
> indicator light off and on, those might not be bad with the button's  
> text align set to right, then you can also have not too different from  
> the size and shape the checkbox would have been.
>
> However, about Apple--I can no longer consider them to be the ultimate  
> example of good interface, as they were before.
>
> Curry
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul 23 13:19:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul 23 13:19:01 2003
Subject: HIG (How to make an Unclickable Check Box)
In-Reply-To: <B681E902-BD36-11D7-B829-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <26979484-BD39-11D7-8A8D-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Swami,

> go url  
> "http://www.himalayanacademy.com/studyhall/yamas_niyamas/ 
> Yamas_and_Niyamas.rev

stack is corrupted, check for ~ backup file

Sorry but this is what i get on RR 2.0.1 and MC 2.5...

Anyone succeeded?


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 13:31:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 13:31:00 2003
Subject: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
In-Reply-To: <200307231738.h6NHc9S97942@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <D55BF2CD-BD3A-11D7-ACD8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 02:38  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> What other ideas do people have?

I've seen some apps represent connectivity with 2 icon states: plugged 
and unplugged. (icon showing male and female plugs)

Just a general observation: I have learned a lot about user-interface 
design by playing educational games on the computer with my 3 year old 
son. It's fascinating.

_Software for Use_ by Constantine and Lockewood is good too.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 13:56:03 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 13:56:03 2003
Subject: more externals questions
In-Reply-To: <3BED23D0-A295-11D7-B3D4-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <5AD05738-BD3E-11D7-ACD8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

> On Thursday, June 19, 2003, at 01:57  PM, Yennie at aol.com wrote:
>> This is because you want to explicity allocate memory for the string 
>> which MetaCard can use and dispose of. A string constant is allocated 
>> locally in your external and could potentially make bad things happen 
>> when MetaCard tries to read from that spot in memory (or dispose of 
>> the memory).
>>
>> It may be the case that the memory is dealt with so quickly that the 
>> risk is small with such a small return value, but you could 
>> potentially get into trouble by way of bad luck, platform 
>> differences, and/or the size of the return value.

>> Most likely MetaCard checks for NULL, in which case this is ok- but 
>> if Metacard is expecting a pointer, it's more "correct" to give it 
>> one. If the engine were to try to read from that pointer after you 
>> set it to NULL, it could crash your app.
>>
>> All this is doing is creating an empty string: strings are terminated 
>> with a NULL byte, so the 1 byte is just the "end-of-string" marker 
>> with no string data before it

Yennie, & List:

I have the Hypercard Script Language Guide, and Appendix A is about 
writing Externals.

At first I was put off because the call interface seems to be different 
in RR externals than inHypercard XCMD/XFCNs: there used to be an 
XCmdPtr structure, but now it's a more explicit interface (args, nargs, 
retstring, pass, error).

Upon looking closer, the rest of the Appendix seems to more or less 
match up with what I'm seeing in the external.c demo stack. Lo and 
behold, I guess this is the oft referred to API for externals!!

Here is a note about the question above. (p.510) "Storing a result 
string is optional for an XCMD; it is expected of an XFCN, but it's not 
required." If that still holds true then it's OK to return NULL from 
xcommand/functions?

Question:  How literally should I take the stuff in Appendix A of 
Hypercard Script Language Guide? Any areas where RR is known to have 
made a big departure from this original specification of how externals 
are meant to be written?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Wed Jul 23 13:59:00 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Wed Jul 23 13:59:00 2003
Subject: HIG (How to make an Unclickable Check Box)
References: <200307231103.HAA07294@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F1ED8FC.8020208@pacbell.net>

From: curry <curry at pair.com>


> 
>> Pardon the intrusion, but it may be worth noting that an unclickable
>> checkbox is a violation of Apple's Human Interface Guidelines and of
>> general UI design rules about user expectations. I'd respectfully
>> suggest some other way of indicating the user's connected state than a
>> checkbox he can't click on or change. I guarantee you'll have
>> frustrated and confused users.
> 
<snip>>
> However, about Apple--I can no longer consider them to be the 
> ultimate example of good interface, as they were before.


Agreed, Curry, but what other consistent Guidelines are there? 
Micro$lot? ;-)  the last time they had a great design was Excel 4.0.

I'm currently running NetScape 7.+ browser. It looks like it was 
designed but a gang of 14-year-old kids. Bizarre interface, 
non-intuitive operation. Tabs, sliders and what-nots all over the 
place... It's worth every cent I paid for it: $0.00.

  The real beauty and strength of Apple was the GUI. Companies that 
followed the Apple HIGs gained a loyal following because the learning 
curve was tiny from App to App. They respected the users' time and the 
money spent. I probably own everything produced by Adobe.

I think we've had enough of the "good-enough" design attitude. More time 
and thought put into the HIG will reduce the coding and de-bug time.

Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Jul 23 14:46:03 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed Jul 23 14:46:03 2003
Subject: Corrupted stack
In-Reply-To: <200307231601.MAA19300@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307231601.MAA19300@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210607bb448f67baf6@[66.81.135.199]>

>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:08:11 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: Corrupted stack
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>--- Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr> wrote:
>>  On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 17:06, Jim Hurley wrote:
>>  > [snip]
>>  >
>>  > I am pessimistic however. I did something
>>  profoundly stupid. (I am a
>>  > recovering Catholic; hence this need for
>>  confession.) I lost the
>>  > stack in question while I was working on it. It
>>  just disappeared from
>>  > the screen.
>>
>>  If this occurs again, try always (from the message
>>  box) "set the visible
>>  of window #stack xxx to true" before any thing else.
>>
>
>And also try from the message box :
>   set the topLeft of stack "Foobar" to 100,100
>just in case it got sent somewhere off-screen.
>
>Jan Schenkel.
>

Jan and Pierre,

You were both on the right track and thank you for the suggestions.

It turned out to be quite tricky.

I tried to open the file once again, and once again there was no 
visible stack. It wasn't even listed in the Window pull down menu. 
But this time it was the first stack I tried to open and lo and 
behold, I noticed that there was *another* stack and it was named 
"Utilities". Where in the world did that come from?

So I went to the Application browser and the property inspector and 
found that the stack Utilities had a width of 20 pixels and a height 
of 20 pixels. And the property inspector wouldn't allow me to 
increase these values. My stack had changed its name and permanently 
shrunk.

Well, to make a long story short (actually too late for that) I 
discovered that I had originally been attempting to give a pull down 
menu (named Utilities) an icon. Apparently I had selected the *stack* 
and not the Utilities *button*. I had renamed the stack "Utilities", 
and given it a 20x20 icon. So, of course, my stack disappeared, or 
rather shrank to a tiny icon and I just didn't see it. Furthermore 
when I tried to open it in RR 1..1 I got a message: "stack 
corrupted," and I assumed the  worst.

(I know there is a value to giving the stack and the file different 
names, but this often trips me up. I was opening a file  named 
"Optics" and getting a stack name "Utilities.")

Well, to make a long story story (again) I set the stack icon to 0 
and renamed the stack, and so all is now well. Whew!

Jim


From jamesjrichards at lineone.net  Wed Jul 23 15:05:03 2003
From: jamesjrichards at lineone.net (James Richards)
Date: Wed Jul 23 15:05:03 2003
Subject: Palm Database Viewer
In-Reply-To: <200307231513.LAA16618@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB44A6AF.3734%jamesjrichards@lineone.net>

on 23/7/03 13:56:47 +0200, Lars Lewejohann:

> I have not tested this on Linux or Mac systems.  Especially on Mac I
> have no idea
> whether PDBs saved with my prog will be installable since I don't  know
> a) if  a
> "Mac file type" is needed and b) if so, what is the "Mac file type" for
> Palm databases.

A little preliminary checking on my Mac shows that there is no single file
type for Palm databases. Different Palm applications set different types.

This leads to a problem with your script on your button "LoadPDB" [16]

the line
    answer file "Open pdb document?" with filter "pdb, *.pdb"

doesn't work on my Mac (OS 8.6 Rev 2.0r2). I think the problem is the
filter. The absence of any consistent file type means that there can't be
any filtering by file type (you will just have to trust Mac users that
they're opening the right thing). Unfortunately it appears that [*.pdb] (and
even [.pdb]) types are interpreted as being strings of four (and five)
characters, so instead of ignoring them the engine treats them as if they
*are* Mac file types and shows nothing because there are no Mac files with
that type. 

I'm a complete novice so this advice is not worth the usual 0.02 [currency
unit], but if you want this to operate on Mac OS 8 to 9 you may need to test
what system it is running under and choose different 'answer' statements
accordingly. Someone with more knowledge or cleverer than I may have a
better solution.

As I am running the free edition I can't alter your script and test further
:(

Regards

James

-- 
James J Richards

jamesjrichards at lineone.net

Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063 



From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Wed Jul 23 15:49:01 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Wed Jul 23 15:49:01 2003
Subject: Wild card searches
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D7A@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

Is there any way to do wild card searches of the following pseudo-form?

Look at a bunch of text and delete all chunks bracketed by "!" and "/!
(for example, it should delete both !m/! and !030924/! and leave nothing
behind.

Thanks in advance

Mark Powell
  


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 16:12:03 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:12:03 2003
Subject: Wild card searches
In-Reply-To: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D7A@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
Message-ID: <621946FA-BD51-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 02:41  PM, Mark Powell wrote:

> Is there any way to do wild card searches of the following pseudo-form?
>
> Look at a bunch of text and delete all chunks bracketed by "!" and "/!
> (for example, it should delete both !m/! and !030924/! and leave 
> nothing
> behind.
>
> Thanks in advance

replaceText() takes a regular expression as it's 2nd parameter

put replaceText("xxxx!030924/!yyyy", "!.+/!", empty)
-- says xxxxyyyy

The ".+" means one or more characters. If you get a Perl reference you 
can see how to advanced regular expressions with Rev.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 16:22:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:22:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D7A@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
Message-ID: <B1E8E34D-BD52-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

Mark's question just now reminded me of something I've been wondering. 
What Perl regex modifiers does RR support? The Transcript Dict. 
mentions only (?i) for case insensitive.

"""
The stringToChange and matchExpression are always case-sensitive, 
regardless of the setting of the caseSensitive property.  (If you need 
to make a case-insensitive comparison, use ?(?i)? at the start of the 
matchExpression to make the match case-insensitive.)
"""

I assumed that other Perl modifiers could be used, like "g" for global 
replace, like this

"(?g)!.+/!"

But but I get "bad parameter". The equivalent Perl would be

$someStr =~ s|!.+/!||g;

(actually this is a bad example because the regex is greedy and will 
match everything between the first ! and the last /!) but just in 
general: what Perl modifiers are supported?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 16:25:03 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:25:03 2003
Subject: How to make an Unclickable Check Box
In-Reply-To: <200307231738.h6NHc9S97942@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <20030723211830.86537.qmail@web20004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Edwin Gore <edgore at shinra.com> wrote:

> I'm not really fond of using color as an
> indicator, since this has it's own set of
> problems (color perception, etc.)

it has been pointed out that even if you do
use color, there should also be design elements
that color blind people can follow. the plugs
sound very intuitive.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From bill at igame3d.com  Wed Jul 23 16:37:01 2003
From: bill at igame3d.com (WIlliam Griffin)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:37:01 2003
Subject: Revolution 2.02 is a $200 beta?
In-Reply-To: <200307231513.LAA16627@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1F0F1510-BD56-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

>
This application is seriously flawed.
Revolution 2.0.2
First the problem from before.
> From: WIlliam Griffin <bill at igame3d.com>
>
> Typing a command and hitting return in Message box results in no 
> action.
> Whats the deal?
>
> Response on list>
> Hi Bill,
>
> There are two types of message boxes : a 1-line
> message box and a multiple-line message box.
> You can toggle by clicking the two left-most buttons
> in the toolbar of the Message box window.
>
> If you are on the one-line message box, and you typed
> a command and hit return, and no error appears below,
> then it must have worked, but maybe there was no
> visible result.
> What command were you trying ?
>
No errors, and no response no matter what.
lets see some commands that will not work.
open stack "Array"
open stack "3D Scene"
set style of stack "Console" to document
set visible of cd fld "selectedcolor" of stack "T3D Edit" to false

No results from anything in here.
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "Edwin Gore" <edgore at shinra.com>
>
> Actually, I am having what sounds like the same problem with the 
> message box, and have been avoiding it but putting things into 
> temporary button scripts.
> For example, I create a new stack, create a button, then type "hide 
> button 1" into the msg box, and hit return.
> The button doesn't hide, the command I typed remains in the message 
> box, with the insertion point blinking at the end of the command, and 
> the results section remains unchanged.
>
> This is in Rev 2.01, under Windows XP Home.
>
So this problem is happening in 2.01 and 2.02 on Mac and Windows.

Moving on. the license I bought clearly stated development of 
applications was available for "All supported platforms " Yet all 
supported platforms are greyed out in the Distribution Builder. 
Everything but Mac OS X. Whats the story with this?

When I want to build an application, I have to close my stack, and all 
the revolution stacks that revolution likes to throw in my face all 
day, then I get an unexpected quit in the process. Thank god for the 
trial version of Metacard, it still works, perfectly, instaneously, and 
without closing my stack.

Also in the distribution builder, the buttons at the bottom of the 
stack are covered by the window,I can only see about 6 pixels of each 
of them.  I saw the same problem in the old trial version too. If the 
message box worked, maybe, just maybe, I could fix it myself.

More Problems. Selecting a group and hitting Command R to edit the 
group only works 10% of the time, if even. I don't have anything in my 
application that should interfere with this command key thing. It 
doesn't matter what group is selected, the command key works by poor 
random chance.

And more: the  error dialogue stack shows up UNDER my project windows 
and palettes, like all these damned Revolution windows do. So I go from 
editing to having  ZERO mouse control over the project, there are 
windows I can't move, buttons I can't press, until I go digging for the 
error window, and I can't do that if I can't move my own windows!!! 
Even when I finally get access to the error window, it tends to be 
unresponsive to clicks and I have no idea what this program is doing.

more thing: The find/replace option in the scripts, is dumb, simpletext 
has more sense.
It doesn't understand the context of a full word, example:
find currentColor replace with viewColor
changes all words that contain "current" whether they contain Color or 
not.
So instead of saving time with a replace all, excessive time is lost 
fixing scripts.

I really wish I'd used this app more extensively before paying for it.
With Metacard trial, i got 180% more work done learning the application 
in the same time as I've spent with just one little thing working with 
Revolution.  I wanted my first posts to this list to be "hey look at 
this cool stuff", instead now I feel disgusted by this product and the 
company which conned me into buying it, which in turn makes it much 
harder to get my project updated and out the door.

Hopefully my awful experience and comments on this $200 beta 
application will get it fixed for the benefit of all.

Revolted,
Bill Griffin
bill at igame3d.com
www.igame3d.com





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From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 16:38:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:38:00 2003
Subject: unclear on the concept, or major report printing bugs?
In-Reply-To: <20030722200457.54953.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <04220D43-BD55-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 02:04  PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:
> You'll see in that backScript that you can trap the
> 'revChangePage' message in your source stack and
> update the data in a field dynamically with say, the
> content of a field in a database ?
> Hooking up revChangePage with revDBQueryGoToRecord
> sounds like a very interesting plan to me ;-)
>
Jan, I'm trying to visualize this usage. revPrintBack sends 
revChangePage when it advances from one card to the next. So on your 
report layout stack you would have several cards. The report viewer 
field would be grouped into a background and put on each card. you 
would handle the revChangePage and adjust the scroll of the field with 
long text (or update it's text with a db result). Is this the concept 
you have in mind?

I have attempted to do this, and when I do "revPrintReport" from the 
message box, I get

Message execution error:
Error description: print: card or stack must be open to print it

However, my report layout card with the report viewer object is open 
and selected. What am I missing here?

I feel like the Report Printing stuff in Rev 2.0 is going to be useful 
eventually but it sure is a heck of a challenge figuring out how to use 
it!!

It sure would be nice if someone could post a demo of the Report 
Builder / Report View tools onto the User Contributions pages at 
runrev.com

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 16:59:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:59:00 2003
Subject: Revolution 2.02 is a $200 beta?
In-Reply-To: <1F0F1510-BD56-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
Message-ID: <DACB8E42-BD57-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

Bill, do you know your message has a hostile tone to it?

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 03:39  PM, WIlliam Griffin wrote:

> No errors, and no response no matter what.
> lets see some commands that will not work.
> open stack "Array"
> open stack "3D Scene"
> set style of stack "Console" to document
> set visible of cd fld "selectedcolor" of stack "T3D Edit" to false
>
> No results from anything in here.

I am guessing you are in the multi-line message box. Please make the 
distinction: single-line message box is different from the multi-line 
message box.

If you are in the multi-line message box, you have to hit ENTER on a 
Mac, and on my Windows laptop it's Function-ENTER (I guess that's 
RETURN on Windows)

>
> I really wish I'd used this app more extensively before paying for it.

(shrug) yeah RR has it's flaws. File a bug report. It hasn't stopped me 
from getting tons of work done, using it every day since October 2002 
beginning with V. 1.1.1.

BTW where the heck is this version 2.0.2 that everyone keeps referring 
to?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul 23 17:12:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul 23 17:12:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <B1E8E34D-BD52-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BC2DE714-BD59-11D7-93D4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 03:14 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> What Perl regex modifiers does RR support?

Ken Ray pointed us to this:

http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.6.1/pod/perlre.html

I have been using that.  You have to hop over the Perl specific parts.

Dar



************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Wed Jul 23 17:18:01 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Wed Jul 23 17:18:01 2003
Subject: Wild card searches
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D7C@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

Hi Alex:

Thanks for the pointer.  However, it seems to be treat delimiters funkily,
assuming only one hit per line.  (e.g. the following returns "apple xxxxx"
instead of "apple banana carrot xxxxx".

on mouseup
  put "apple" & tab & \
      "!nice/!banana" & tab & \
      "!031110/!carrot" & tab & \
      "!f/!xxxxx" into myBefore
  answer replaceText(myBefore, "!.+/!", empty)
end mouseup

Any ideas?  I want to delete _all_ occurrences of !<whatever>! strings.

Mark Powell






From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Jul 23 17:21:01 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed Jul 23 17:21:01 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
Message-ID: <1058998423.1160.5.camel@www.kmax.net>

Hi List,

Is it a better way to implement substacks inside a Revolution 2.0.1
project to have them opening as fast as they are opening in the Metacard
2.5 environnement ?

Thanks,
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Jul 23 17:23:03 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed Jul 23 17:23:03 2003
Subject: Revolution 2.02 is a $200 beta?
In-Reply-To: <1F0F1510-BD56-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
References: <1F0F1510-BD56-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
Message-ID: <3F1F0917.7000308@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/23/03 4:39 PM, WIlliam Griffin wrote:

> Hopefully my awful experience and comments on this $200 beta application 
> will get it fixed for the benefit of all.

Just for the record, I haven't seen any of the problems you report, so 
it isn't universal. Command keys work fine for me, find/replace works as 
expected in the script editor. Error dialogs appear on top. All 
platforms are available in distribution builder. And so forth.

This would seem to indicate there is something different about your 
setup than there is with mine. There are people at Runtime available to 
help solve your problems, and I know they want to produce a solid 
product. Your input could be valuable to them. Have you tried tech support?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jmac at consensustech.com  Wed Jul 23 17:23:27 2003
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell)
Date: Wed Jul 23 17:23:27 2003
Subject: Revolution 2.02 is a $200 beta?
In-Reply-To: <1F0F1510-BD56-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
Message-ID: <BB44572A.12E41%jmac@consensustech.com>

The same sort of thing has been happening to me but I thought I was special.
Also, I'm a lurking newbie so don't speak up  much.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
I was using the 30 day trial and everything worked fine. Then the trial
expired, and Rev reverted to Free edition. Immediately just about every
thing I did resulted in nothing happening.. including message box commands.
Rev got so bunged up that I'm back to the 1.1.1 Free version.  Yes I'm going
to buy ("Soon?", he said hopefully) but don't have the $ set aside yet and
yes, the reversion disaster has given me minor second thoughts....

Turns out the doing "nothing" is not quite correct. When nothing happens, I
can bring Rev back to life by hitting command-. (ESC for PC users?). There
appears to be some VERY time consuming something that's going on prior to
Rev taking action on the important things.. the ones I want to happen.

So, Bill... Did you pay your $200 to enable a Trial Version that reverted?

Just a thought.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
While I've got the screen, thoughts on other recent threads.

1) I love the Free Edition concept. I've been through so many 30 day trials
without ever really getting the products evaluated enough to make a
decision... and thus haven't bought them, that it isn't even funny. I'm too
busy doing what I need to be doing to do an "evaluatoin". The Free Edition
gives me enough time to work with the product when and where it makes sense
and that lets me get comfortable enough to make a ourchase decision.

2) IMHO, Splash Screens belong on Free versions of things and should include
message saying same. "This project produced on a Free Evaluation version of
Runtime Revolution" This immediately separates the "professional" from the
non because one would assume a pro would actually buy their dev tool.

3) A long time ago, Geoff made the comment that there was a lot of really
bad C++ code out there and no-one bad mouths C about that. True but... when
did you see a splash screen saying "This bad app was produced using C++, the
language of Champions" or something to that effect. It is best to let bad
code go unassociated w/ an excellent product. Or at least have the splash
screen only apply to a Free version (See 2 above)

Finally.. and I don't expect an answer.... I'm really confused by the
v.2.01, 2.02 and TBD 2.1 situation. Which do I get if I "Buy Now". I'm a
dual OS Mac person. My work computers (G3 Wallstreet Powerbook and Beige G3
Tower) have OS 9.1 or 9.2 and can't realistically run OS X while my kid's
have 10.2? 

I'm stuck. Which platform to get... OS X which means I can't take Rev on the
road..... or Classic which means I don't have OS X version if I upgrade my
work computers ("Soon?", he said hopefully).... Answer... I probably stick
w/ Free 1.1.1 until I get my OS situation straightened out... Another victim
of the "Develop on One for Many"  paradigm shift. (Yes I could get Studio
but $75 is $75 and my kids aren't in public school.......)


Jim



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Jul 23 17:30:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Jul 23 17:30:01 2003
Subject: pi approximation day [OT]
In-Reply-To: <1030724030914.3f1ec13a.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.89850@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <1E85311A-BD59-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Yes, LF as a constant was only added in Rev 2.
It is equivalent to CR, return and linefeed.

Cheers,
Sarah

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 03:09  am, David Squance wrote:

>>>
>>>     put pi & LF & 22/7
>>>
>>> Appreciate wonders both large and very small.
>>
>> 3.14159265358979323846
>> 3.142857
>>
>
>
> [I'm a little behind in handling list messages.]
>
> Does the LF only work in RR2?
>
> I got:  3.14159265358979323846LF3.142857
>
> Dave
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 17:34:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 17:34:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <BC2DE714-BD59-11D7-93D4-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BE9730B5-BD5C-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 04:05  PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 03:14 PM, Alex Rice wrote:
>
>> What Perl regex modifiers does RR support?
>
> Ken Ray pointed us to this:
>
> http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.6.1/pod/perlre.html
>
> I have been using that.  You have to hop over the Perl specific parts.
>
> Dar

Thanks Dar- "g" is a valid modifier for Perl matches and substitutions 
like

$fu =~ s/match/replace/g; # replaces all instances of match in $fu

I expect "(?g)" to work as a modifier based on what the Transcript Docs 
say.

I know Perl and have the O'Reilly Book "Mastering Regular Expressions". 
  I don't claim to have actually mastered them but.. :-)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 17:42:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 17:42:00 2003
Subject: Wild card searches
In-Reply-To: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D7C@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
Message-ID: <ED6CD889-BD5D-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 04:10  PM, Mark Powell wrote:

> Hi Alex:
>
> Thanks for the pointer.  However, it seems to be treat delimiters 
> funkily,
> assuming only one hit per line.  (e.g. the following returns "apple 
> xxxxx"
> instead of "apple banana carrot xxxxx".
>
> on mouseup
>   put "apple" & tab & \
>       "!nice/!banana" & tab & \
>       "!031110/!carrot" & tab & \
>       "!f/!xxxxx" into myBefore
>   answer replaceText(myBefore, "!.+/!", empty)
> end mouseup
>
> Any ideas?  I want to delete _all_ occurrences of !<whatever>! strings.

You get "apple xxxxx" because the regex I wrote is greedy. You could 
modify the regex so it's not greedy. (I think "greedy" is the term they 
use, but not sure)

"![^!/]+/!"

AHA! That works. So... I guess replaceText() replaces all matches by 
default, which is why it doesn't understand the "(?g)" global 
substitution modifier- it doesn't need to!

Everyone should learn Perl regular expressions :-) It's well worth the 
trouble!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dleavey at vectrainc.com  Wed Jul 23 18:00:01 2003
From: dleavey at vectrainc.com (Daniel Leavey, Vectra Inc.)
Date: Wed Jul 23 18:00:01 2003
Subject: Anybody Home?
Message-ID: <BB4489E5.2CC0%dleavey@vectrainc.com>

A few days ago, I sent an email to <info at revolution.com>

It just came back with a postmaster?s message telling me the server timed
out trying to connect to <info at revolution.com>

Has anyone ever communicated with the folks responsible for the software?
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From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Jul 23 18:01:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Jul 23 18:01:01 2003
Subject: Message Box woes & editing Revolution
In-Reply-To: <1030724003913.3f1e9e11.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.89756@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <7635AAE0-BD5D-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Bill,

Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble. I'm sure that between us 
on this list we can find solutions to a lot of them.

1. Message box: Try pressing Enter instead of Return. That way it will 
work if you are in single line or multi line mode (the mode is show as 
part of the message box window title). Test it with something really 
simple like "put 1 + 2". This will separate the message box test from 
any development you are doing and let you see if it really is the box 
or if something else is going wrong. Also, reboot Rev and try using the 
message box before opening any stacks.

2. Editing: there are numerous shortcuts for editing. Test them out and 
use the one that suits you. Obviously using the inspector's popup menu 
is not right for your workflow. The other options are: Command-E (Mac) 
or Control-E (Windows)
Command-option hover (Mac) or Control-alt hover (Win)
The Script button in the toolbar
The contextual menu that pops up when you right-click or control-click 
on an object.

3. Editing an object in a group: you don't have to be in edit group 
mode. Turn on "Select Grouped Controls" in the Edit menu, or toggle 
"Select Grouped" in the toolbar and you can select grouped objects 
directly.

4. Toolbar: if you resent the space it takes up, then turn it off. In 
the View menu there are two option: "Toolbar text" and "Toolbar icons". 
Unchecking both of these turns off the bar completely but you may fine 
that leaving just text on gives you enough room. All the toolbar 
functions are available from the menus so you wont lose anything.

In an environment like Rev, there are nearly always multiple ways of 
doing everything whether while scripting or designing. If you don't 
like the way things are happening, there is very likely to be at least 
one alternative. Check the shortcuts section of the Docs for some more 
ideas.

I wrote a function key plugin - FunKey.rev can be downloaded from my 
web page http://www.troz.net/Rev/ - which allows you to assign scripts 
to the function keys. I use this to speed up my workflow and make 
frequent used commands and menu items into a single keystroke.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 12:39  am, WIlliam Griffin wrote:

> Typing a command and hitting return in Message box results in no 
> action.
> Whats the deal?
>
> Also how do I move the "Edit script" submenu item to a button on the 
> inspector palette?
> I spend much time editing scripts which ammounts to
> 1. select object
> 2. edit group
> 3. find inspector under some other window
> 4. hold down drop down menu
> 5. select edit script
> 6. find script window under other windows.
>
> There must be a way of making this app intuitive and to do things I 
> expect it to do.
>
> Revolution is moving my windows around to make room for that toolbar
> at the top of the screen. I've spent a lot of time adjusting my 
> interface for my users sake,
> this revolution "move your interface"  glitch is not welcome.
>
>
> Thanks.
> Bill Griffin
> info at igame3d.com
> www.igame3d.com
>




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 18:14:03 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 18:14:03 2003
Subject: Anybody Home?
In-Reply-To: <BB4489E5.2CC0%dleavey@vectrainc.com>
Message-ID: <6DF8620E-BD62-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 04:52  PM, Daniel Leavey, Vectra Inc.  
wrote:

> A few days ago, I sent an email to <info at revolution.com>
>
> It just came back with a postmaster?s message telling me the server  
> timed
> out trying to connect to <info at revolution.com>
>
> Has anyone ever communicated with the folks responsible for the  
> software?

I don't think revolution.com is owned by Runtime Revolution Ltd (the  
folks responsible for the software.) Try runrev.com

And yes we are home :-)

List-
revolution.com is listed as status: REGISTRAR-LOCK. Is it going to  
available for snatching?

http://www.enom.com/domains/ 
whois.asp?DomainName=revolution.com&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Jul 23 18:23:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Jul 23 18:23:01 2003
Subject: Anybody Home?
In-Reply-To: <1030724085732.3f1f12dc.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.90498@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <910877EF-BD63-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Yes, I've emailed them lots of times, but it always helps to have the 
correct address :-)
Try info at runrev.com as listed on their web site.

Cheers,
Sarah

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 08:57  am, Daniel Leavey, Vectra Inc. 
wrote:

> A few days ago, I sent an email to <info at revolution.com>
>
> It just came back with a postmaster?s message telling me the server 
> timed
> out trying to connect to <info at revolution.com>
>
> Has anyone ever communicated with the folks responsible for the 
> software?



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Jul 23 18:23:24 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Jul 23 18:23:24 2003
Subject: understanding modeless stacks on OS X
In-Reply-To: <1030723132753.3f1e00b9.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.88934@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <57CF51D2-BD63-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

You are absolutely right Alex. I get exactly the same thing - 
pinstripes in the IDE and grey in the standalone. I tried building with 
and without default colors and fonts and it made no difference. Will 
you bugzilla this one?

Cheers,
Sarah


>> I just tested a single stack app with radio buttons to change mode 
>> and a default button. The background changed as expected and the 
>> default button looked fine in all modes. Are you sure there isn't 
>> something else interfering, like a background pattern or color set in 
>> the mainStack, or a large tabbed button?
>
> Yes- but did you build a standalone and get the same results? Here is 
> a recipe with no tabbed button involved.
>
> - New mainstack Untitled 1
> - New substack Untitled 2
> - Put a button on Untitled 1.
> - Set the script of the button to
>
> on mouseup
>   go stack "Untitled 2"
> end mouseup
>
> - set the style of stack Untitled 2 to modeless
> - in browse mode, click on button 1
> - Untitled 2 appears fine w/ pinstripe background
>
> - now build a standalone of the mainstack Untitled 1.
> - run it and click button 1.
> - Untitled 2 appears with a _gray_ background.
>
> Thanks for the help Sarah. Hopefully I'm missing something obvious.
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul 23 18:34:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul 23 18:34:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <3F1ED8FC.8020208@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <BB4467A2.312CF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Ray G. Miller wrote:

>> However, about Apple--I can no longer consider them to be the
>> ultimate example of good interface, as they were before.
> 
> Agreed, Curry, but what other consistent Guidelines are there?
> Micro$lot? ;-) 

The current mess confronting multi-platform developers is costly to us all,
with incalculable time wasted by the majority using Revolution, Java,
RealBASIC, Director, Flash, or other cross-platform development system.  I
wouldn't be surprised if the worldwide aggregate of productivity lost to
such things came to several tens or possibly hundreds of millions of dollars
annually.

Some time ago I was considering an article with petition on a "Universal
GUI", with the theme of "Put up or shut up."  There's probably a more polite
way to phrase that, but I believe the central idea is important:

As more and more development becomes cross- or multi-platform, although most
modern GUIs share a majority of UI elements (common window trimmings, menus,
button types, etc.), each OS has enough distinctions to drive everyone crazy
trying to be "HIG-compliant" across conflicting HIGs.

So maybe we developers could turn the tables: rather than enslaving
ourselves to sometimes arbitrary specifications, we take it upon ourselves
to make one recommendation for a Universal GUI.

Any OS vendor could make suggestions for deviations from common behaviors,
but they would only be incorprated into the Universal GUI spec if it's
supported by research, with methodologies and results available for review
so we can distinguish the truly research-supported recommendations.

We should never have to write two layout routines for dialog controls, in
which Win and Mac reverse the order of default buttons, for example.  We
could pick one layout, based on research or, if such supporting
documentation is unavailable, prevalence among current GUIs, making the odd
one out either substantiate their difference with research or be ignored.

One could rightly argue that a Universal GUI could lead to a "lowest common
denominator" GUI.  We'd have to be watchful of that, but at the same time
the sum of common elements is not bad, and in its simplicity there may be
great value.  We could still keep unique appearances, since each OS provides
a heathly set of hooks for rendering controls.  But there's no reason
layouts, behavior, and nomenclature couldn't be made consistent, with the
option supported by the strongest research setting the standard others would
be asked to comply with.

I realize it would be an uphill battle and likely without victory.  Worth
pursuing, or better off left as a thought experiment? ;)

--
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Software Design and Development for Mac, Windows, Linux, and the Web
 ____________________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717        AIM: FourthWorldInc       Fax: 323-225-0716



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 23 18:35:00 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed Jul 23 18:35:00 2003
Subject: Wild card searches
In-Reply-To: <ED6CD889-BD5D-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB236F5C-BD65-11D7-BE6C-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 03:35  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> You get "apple xxxxx" because the regex I wrote is greedy. You could 
> modify the regex so it's not greedy. (I think "greedy" is the term 
> they use, but not sure)
>
> "![^!/]+/!"

> AHA! That works. So... I guess replaceText() replaces all matches by 
> default, which is why it doesn't understand the "(?g)" global 
> substitution modifier- it doesn't need to!
>
> Everyone should learn Perl regular expressions :-) It's well worth the 
> trouble!
>
> Alex Rice

Alex,

This regEx stuff is very cool. Now I have a new area of optimizations 
for my pull-parser experiments.

Thanks,

Mark
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From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 19:00:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 19:00:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <BB4467A2.312CF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CA825348-BD68-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 05:26  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
> I realize it would be an uphill battle and likely without victory.  
> Worth
> pursuing, or better off left as a thought experiment? ;)

I think it's certainly futile for it to be like an RFC or ISO standard, 
but perhaps it could gain a cult following?

I was just reading your interview in revJournal, Richard. There should 
be a universal icon and hotkey for "progressive discloser". Click the 
icon and the app does an onion-skin animation and voila there is your 
advanced user view. Click the icon again and voila there is your 
super-user view!

Just last night I watched my 3 year old learn to use, pretty much 
intuitively, a "conveyor belt" widget in a game, that had right and 
left arrow-triangles for scrolling the conveyor belt. Pretty cool.

There is a cognitive basis for these things! Books that might be 
relevant

Metapatterns / Across Space, Time and Mind
by Tyler Volk

Metaphors We Live By
by Lakoff and Johnson

Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things / What Categories Reveal about the 
Mind
by Lakoff


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 23 19:06:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 23 19:06:00 2003
Subject: understanding modeless stacks on OS X
In-Reply-To: <57CF51D2-BD63-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <9A506D06-BD69-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 05:14  PM, Sarah wrote:

> You are absolutely right Alex. I get exactly the same thing - 
> pinstripes in the IDE and grey in the standalone. I tried building 
> with and without default colors and fonts and it made no difference. 
> Will you bugzilla this one?

Done; # 190

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From bill at igame3d.com  Wed Jul 23 19:12:01 2003
From: bill at igame3d.com (WIlliam Griffin)
Date: Wed Jul 23 19:12:01 2003
Subject: Revolution 2.0.2 the $200 beta
In-Reply-To: <200307232135.RAA02132@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CE1A715A-BD6B-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

> From: Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com>
> Bill, do you know your message has a hostile tone to it?

That comes across loud and clear, huh? Can you imagine the impression
the thousands of people at Macworld NY would have had last week, if I'd 
bought Rev. instead of using trial Metacard for the past 30 days? "Why 
is that man yelling at those folks over at the Runtime booth?"

I'm not cool about throwing money away when I don't have money to throw 
away. Expensive frustrating work enviroments,  also does not make me 
"Mr. Pleasant". This RSI in my elbow and shoulder  is only aggrivated 
by not getting work done efficiently and moving on.

> I am guessing you are in the multi-line message box. Please make the
> distinction: single-line message box is different from the multi-line
> message box.
>
> If you are in the multi-line message box, you have to hit ENTER on a
> Mac, and on my Windows laptop it's Function-ENTER (I guess that's
> RETURN on Windows)

Nope, neither one of those message box formats and neither one of those 
keys work.
I can select the different formats, but return or enter do nothing.

> From: Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com>
> (shrug) yeah RR has it's flaws. File a bug report. It hasn't stopped me
> from getting tons of work done, using it every day since October 2002
> beginning with V. 1.1.1.
But you are not using the version I'm using and my serial number will 
not work
on older versions.

> BTW where the heck is this version 2.0.2 that everyone keeps referring
> to?
>
There is a direct link to the download, they send it to you in email 
after purchase.
Maybe new users are the guinea pigs and maybe you really don't want 
this version.

> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Just for the record, I haven't seen any of the problems you report, so
> it isn't universal.

> Command keys work fine for me, find/replace works as expected in the 
> script editor.
This is a preference setting, and "correct" behavior is turned off by 
default.
Normally I don't mess with preferences. In this case, I went digging.

> Error dialogs appear on top. All platforms are available in 
> distribution builder. And so forth.
Not for me.

> This would seem to indicate there is something different about your 
> setup than there is with mine
There are 4 setups, a number of versions, and different platforms 
availabe Which one do you have? the Free trial had all platforms 
available for build, the one I paid for doesn't

>  There are people at Runtime available to
> help solve your problems, and I know they want to produce a solid
> product. Your input could be valuable to them. Have you tried tech 
> support?

Don't they respond to this list?
My understanding of my licensed tech support is:  "Up-and-running" 
technical support is provided to help get the product installed and 
working properly on your system.  That to me sounds like "Drag the 
application to your hard drive, double click, is it running? Ok,  great 
have a nice day." I didn't expect to find several flaws in a single 
sitting.

> From: Jim MacConnell <jmac at consensustech.com>
> The same sort of thing has been happening to me but I thought I was 
> special.
> Also, I'm a lurking newbie so don't speak up  much.
......
> So, Bill... Did you pay your $200 to enable a Trial Version that 
> reverted?

Nope I paid, downloaded 2.0.2, tossed the old trial into the trash, 
emptied trash, then installed new version, and registered it 
immediately. Did one or two simple things, seemed to work, put off my 
heavy duty stuff until today, then spent today saying "huh? Why doesn't 
this work? why doesn't that work? What the !!!!"

Until now I was  using trial Metacard because Revolution seemed , 
"flawed".

I apologize to all listee's for being the raging Bill...I  honestly 
would rather share cool things, and when this app works right, I will.

Bill Griffin
bill at igame3d.com
www.igame3d.com





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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul 23 19:13:48 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul 23 19:13:48 2003
Subject: [OT] Win "security" (was: Re: Rev killing the Mac platform?)
In-Reply-To: <476BD946-BD21-11D7-ACD8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB4470BB.312DA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

"Swiss Researchers Exploit Windows Password Flaw"

<http://slashdot.org/articles/03/07/23/1240259.shtml?tid=126&tid=172&tid=185
&tid=190&tid=201&tid=93>

"CNET is carrying an article about a new (albeit simplistic) method used to
hack alphanumeric Windows passwords in a matter of seconds , rather than
minutes.  To blame is a 'weakness in Microsoft's method of encoding
passwords.'  According to the authors, the same method, when used on Mac OS
X, Unix and Linux boxes, however, could require either 4,096 times more
memory or 4,096 times longer."

-----------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, couldn't resist.  No more OT posts from me this week, I promise. :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Jul 23 19:16:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Jul 23 19:16:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <BB4467A2.312CF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHKEIEDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>
> As more and more development becomes cross- or multi-platform,
> although most
> modern GUIs share a majority of UI elements (common window
> trimmings, menus,
> button types, etc.), each OS has enough distinctions to drive
> everyone crazy
> trying to be "HIG-compliant" across conflicting HIGs.

Hi Richard

I'd be very interested in a document that compared HIGs on various points,
discussed differences and cited research that suggested a superior method.
By choosing the superior method in each instance it would result in a
'highest common denominator HIG'. On the other hand the document might
suggest exactly what the developer needs to do to alter layouts for each HIG
in instances where there is no superior method or moving away from the
platforms HIG would be too confusing for users.

Perhaps there is already a document around like this?
>
> I realize it would be an uphill battle and likely without victory.  Worth
> pursuing, or better off left as a thought experiment? ;)

Considering the major players are providing HIGs and not following them
themselves you could probably go a long way with this. It should be noted
though that even though Java SWING has been around for a while and is
intended to be standard cross-platform it's hardly ever seen. At the end of
the day people want apps to look right for the platforms they are
distributed on. That's why I'm frustrated that after nearly 2 years we still
don't have XP theme support.

Regards

MOnte



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul 23 19:21:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul 23 19:21:01 2003
Subject: Revolution 2.0.2 the $200 beta
In-Reply-To: <CE1A715A-BD6B-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
Message-ID: <BB4472A2.312E0%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

WIlliam Griffin wrote:

> Until now I was  using trial Metacard because Revolution seemed , "flawed".
> 
> I apologize to all listee's for being the raging Bill...I  honestly would
> rather share cool things, and when this app works right, I will.

Why not just keep using MC if it was doing what you need?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From themacguy at macosx.com  Wed Jul 23 19:58:01 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Wed Jul 23 19:58:01 2003
Subject: Consistent crash during card/stack printing
Message-ID: <E8669DF3-BD70-11D7-A16D-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

I posted a note about a four card stack with a player object on each 
page that, in WindowsXP, would print the pages but with only the 
borders of the player objects (none of the content - either first frame 
of the movie or a jpeg, whichever I had assigned to the player object).

I moved the stack over to OSX and now the stack crashes consistently 
when I issue the "print card" command. I can preceed it with the "open 
printing" command but it makes no difference.

I tried removing the player object and, instead, used an image object 
from which I referenced a jpeg on the hard drive. This time it printed 
fine.

I then removed the image object and replaced it with a fresh player 
object, linked the object to a movie on disk (for which the object 
showed the first frame). I printed again and crashed Rev.

Seems we have a very nasty problem here. Any ideas or suggestions? I 
will not know whether the user will link to an image or a movie so the 
QT player object was going to be the solution. Perhaps not...

Barry



From themacguy at macosx.com  Wed Jul 23 20:04:03 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Wed Jul 23 20:04:03 2003
Subject: Consistent crash during card/stack printing
Message-ID: <CD482A59-BD71-11D7-A16D-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

I tried creating a new stack and only using one object on the card. In 
the case of the QT Player object, when I linked it to a jpeg file, it 
crashed Rev (2.01 on OSX).

Also tried a new stack with a QT Player object linked to a bona fide QT 
movie; crashed Rev again.

Interesting to note that, on WindowsXP, the original "problem" stack 
printed but with nothing in the QT Players' borders (only white space). 
However, it did not crash.

I'm open to suggestions.

Barry



From jtenny at willamette.edu  Wed Jul 23 20:13:04 2003
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Wed Jul 23 20:13:04 2003
Subject: change list layout?
In-Reply-To: <200307231513.LAA16573@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A0B329D8-BD72-11D7-A5EE-000393911676@willamette.edu>

Another list that I'm on puts the following information at the end of 
the digest thereby allowing the 'table of contents' to appear on the 
first screen. Sure saves a lot of scrolling. There is a one liner 
directing folks to the end of the message. Any chance.....?

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 08:13  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Send use-revolution mailing list submissions to
> 	use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of use-revolution digest..."
>
>
> you can find the archives for this list at:
>
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/>
>
> and search them using this link:
>
> <http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com>
>



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Jul 23 20:16:03 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Jul 23 20:16:03 2003
Subject: Consistent crash during card/stack printing
In-Reply-To: <E8669DF3-BD70-11D7-A16D-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEIGDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> I posted a note about a four card stack with a player object on each
> page that, in WindowsXP, would print the pages but with only the
> borders of the player objects (none of the content - either first frame
> of the movie or a jpeg, whichever I had assigned to the player object).
>
> I moved the stack over to OSX and now the stack crashes consistently
> when I issue the "print card" command. I can preceed it with the "open
> printing" command but it makes no difference.
>
> I tried removing the player object and, instead, used an image object
> from which I referenced a jpeg on the hard drive. This time it printed
> fine.
>
> I then removed the image object and replaced it with a fresh player
> object, linked the object to a movie on disk (for which the object
> showed the first frame). I printed again and crashed Rev.
>
> Seems we have a very nasty problem here. Any ideas or suggestions? I
> will not know whether the user will link to an image or a movie so the
> QT player object was going to be the solution. Perhaps not...

I can confirm the printing issue in XP. Get the crash log from OS X and post
it to bugzilla. I've never tried printing a player before. Perhaps it's not
supported? If so then it's a docs bug. Worst case scenario you could create
a snapshot of the player then hide the player before printing.

Regards

Monte



From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Wed Jul 23 20:22:01 2003
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (Ron)
Date: Wed Jul 23 20:22:01 2003
Subject: dragdata[html], clipboarddata[html] question
In-Reply-To: <BB3D8A51.DB2C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB455EE4.FA58%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi

I wanted to confirm this or be told it was expected behavior before I bug
report it.

The problem is that text dragged or copied from a fld will not maintain the
textfont property correctly when the fld has the textfont set by script.
Thus the dragdata[html] [rtf] and clipboarddata[html] [rtf] do not report
the correct data either.

To reproduce this:
set the textfont of fld 1 to "not the default font of the stack"
set the text to mytext

Now, select some text and drag it to another fld, or copy and paste it. The
resulting text is in the default font of the stack, not the textfont
reported of the original fld.

Now, select all in fld 1. Explicitly set the textfont from the menu. Then
drag or copy and paste. The textfont is correctly maintained (and reported
in dragdata and clipboarddata)

This is on OS 9 w/ RR 2.0.1

Is this expected? and does it happen on other OS's?

Thanks
Ron

ps is there a work around?



From themacguy at macosx.com  Wed Jul 23 20:55:01 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Wed Jul 23 20:55:01 2003
Subject: How to crash Rev 2.01 in OSX
Message-ID: <E551E07F-BD78-11D7-AF77-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

1. Create a new stack.

2. Add a QT Player object.

3. Reference a QT movie or jpeg on disk from the player object's 
inspector.

4. Select "print card" from the File menu.

5. Click "Print" or "Preview".

6. Wait a few seconds and then *boom*, Rev crashes.

Leaving the player object unreferenced (so to speak) permits the "print 
card" command to work but of what use is that?

Same attempt in WindowsXP prints the cards (no crash) but leaves all 
player objects appearing blank in the printouts.

I wonder if I should go back to v1.1.1 to see if the problem was 
introduced in v2.

*sigh*

Barry

OSX 10.2.6, Rev 2.01, Dual-867G4/1GB RAM



From david at kwinter.ca  Wed Jul 23 21:02:00 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Wed Jul 23 21:02:00 2003
Subject: How to crash Rev 2.01 in OSX
In-Reply-To: <E551E07F-BD78-11D7-AF77-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <BB44988A.1D0D%david@kwinter.ca>

On 7/23/03 7:48 PM, "Barry Levine" <themacguy at macosx.com> wrote:

> to see if the problem was
> introduced in v2.


Problem exists in 1.1.1 as well, not another problem with 2.0 though I don't
blame you for half-expecting it to be  ; )



From bill at igame3d.com  Wed Jul 23 21:21:01 2003
From: bill at igame3d.com (WIlliam Griffin)
Date: Wed Jul 23 21:21:01 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1653 - 11 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200307232313.TAA07950@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <E80B9B66-BD7C-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

From: Sarah <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
reboot Rev and try using the message box before opening any stacks.
Test it with something really simple like "put 1 + 2".

--- That works with return as it should....
Until my stack is open, then it does not work.

2. Editing: there are numerous shortcuts for editing.  ...Command-E

--Yes, getting use to that one now. Metacard didn't have a key 
command..at least it wasn't shown

The Script button in the toolbar
-- I've turned this evil toolbar off, it is the enemy of my application 
design, there is no reason
my application/project should float an inch and half away from the 
border of the screen,
I'm sure the people that will use my app won't be thrilled about that.
In a Photoshop document this might make sense, but if photoshop itself 
was moved an inch and a half from the screen..well there would be hell 
to pay.
I told Kevin Miller last week this is why I wasn't using Rev to begin 
with.

The contextual menu that pops up when you right-click or control-click
on an object.
-- have been using the control key in our app to enable  mouseview of 
OpenGL window for 12 months, I'll have to get used to being able to do 
something else with it while in editing mode.
(my power small finger is already blistered as it is)

3. Editing an object in a group: you don't have to be in edit group
mode. Turn on "Select Grouped Controls" in the Edit menu,
---now that is handy!!!!!

4. Toolbar: if you resent the space it takes up, then turn it off.

....yes I killed the toolbar (die monster die!)

I wrote a function key plugin - FunKey.rev can be downloaded from my
web page http://www.troz.net/Rev/ - which allows you to assign scripts
to the function keys. I use this to speed up my workflow and make
frequent used commands and menu items into a single keystroke.

---Groovy! Thanks Sarah, you're my new best friend. :-)
As soon as I get my message box to work with my stack and my claws and 
fangs recede.


Too tired,

Bill Griffin
bill at igame3d.com
www.igame3d.com











From bvg at mac.com  Wed Jul 23 21:44:03 2003
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Wed Jul 23 21:44:03 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHKEIEDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <BFD9505C-BD7F-11D7-BE8B-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

A universal GUI is an interesting concept. But I do not think that we 
here at this list have enough resources to pull a specification off. 
But I do no think that anyone is doing this already, as those that have 
to resources are more of the coder and less of the designer kind 
(generalised observation).
Maybe a project akin to the IPC-Rev group could be formed... if there 
are enough interested people.


On Donnerstag, Jul 24, 2003, at 02:08 Europe/Zurich, Monte Goulding 
wrote:

>>
>> As more and more development becomes cross- or multi-platform,
>> although most
>> modern GUIs share a majority of UI elements (common window
>> trimmings, menus,
>> button types, etc.), each OS has enough distinctions to drive
>> everyone crazy
>> trying to be "HIG-compliant" across conflicting HIGs.
>
> Hi Richard
>
> I'd be very interested in a document that compared HIGs on various 
> points,
> discussed differences and cited research that suggested a superior 
> method.
> By choosing the superior method in each instance it would result in a
> 'highest common denominator HIG'. On the other hand the document might
> suggest exactly what the developer needs to do to alter layouts for 
> each HIG
> in instances where there is no superior method or moving away from the
> platforms HIG would be too confusing for users.
>
> Perhaps there is already a document around like this?
>>
>> I realize it would be an uphill battle and likely without victory.  
>> Worth
>> pursuing, or better off left as a thought experiment? ;)
>
> Considering the major players are providing HIGs and not following them
> themselves you could probably go a long way with this. It should be 
> noted
> though that even though Java SWING has been around for a while and is
> intended to be standard cross-platform it's hardly ever seen. At the 
> end of
> the day people want apps to look right for the platforms they are
> distributed on. That's why I'm frustrated that after nearly 2 years we 
> still
> don't have XP theme support.
>
> Regards
>
> MOnte
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Jul 23 21:52:02 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed Jul 23 21:52:02 2003
Subject: Revolution 2.0.2 the $200 beta
In-Reply-To: <CE1A715A-BD6B-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
References: <CE1A715A-BD6B-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
Message-ID: <3F1F4844.7020102@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/23/03 7:14 PM, WIlliam Griffin wrote:

> There are 4 setups, a number of versions, and different platforms 
> availabe Which one do you have? the Free trial had all platforms 
> available for build, the one I paid for doesn't

I'm using the enterprise version, formerly known as "professional".

>>  There are people at Runtime available to
>> help solve your problems, and I know they want to produce a solid
>> product. Your input could be valuable to them. Have you tried tech 
>> support?
> 
> 
> Don't they respond to this list?

Only incidentally; problems and bug reports should go through tech 
support or the bugzilla engine. You will get a much faster response by 
emailing tech support than by posting here.

> My understanding of my licensed tech support is:  "Up-and-running" 
> technical support is provided to help get the product installed and 
> working properly on your system.

What you describe certainly doesn't sound like you are either up and 
running or working properly yet. The program has errored for you from 
the start. It isn't erroring for many others, so I'd say there is 
something different about your setup or your version of the program, and 
you are entitled to some tech support, and I bet the company will be 
willing to provide it. They are pretty accomodating in situations like 
this. If it is a bug on their end, they do want to know and they do want 
to fix it.

Now that I've read your further comments, I'd say you have a right to 
expect some help. Tell them what you told us. Only maybe don't holler so 
loud. ;)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Jul 23 22:01:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Jul 23 22:01:01 2003
Subject: Message Box woes & editing Revolution
In-Reply-To: <1030724122206.3f1f42ce.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.91044@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <F2DDC98E-BD81-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Bill,

Do you have a returnKey or enterKey handler in your stack or in a 
frontScript? That might be trapping the key in the message box and 
stopping it from working.

Cheers,
Sarah

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 12:22  pm, WIlliam Griffin wrote:

> reboot Rev and try using the message box before opening any stacks.
> Test it with something really simple like "put 1 + 2".
>
> --- That works with return as it should....
> Until my stack is open, then it does not work.




From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Jul 23 22:13:00 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed Jul 23 22:13:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <BB4467A2.312CF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIGEPFCOAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Richard et al...

My 2 cents on a Universal GUI.

I've been designing interfaces like many of you from the early HyperCard
days. Talk about Universal GUI! Just about all HyperCard stacks looked
alike...1-bit interfaces, card metaphor, etc.. Interesting enough, HC pretty
much broke many of Apples Human Interface Guidelines (HIG). Later, being a
traditionally trained Industrial Designer, I was delighted to move to
SuperCard, with color interfaces and the prelude to *multimedia.*

One of the very cool aspects of *multimedia* was one didn't have to adhere
to HIG or any GUI model...in fact you invented it with each new project.
This was great for us at Human Code, we ended up creating some really unique
award winning interfaces which ended up launching our company in a big way.
Once again, we stepped away from Apples HIG and created new and exciting
interfaces.

Soon, the Internet came along. Talk about a complete step backwards in GUI!
But, people got used to it. Creating new and unique websites (with
interfaces) is currently big business for a lot of companies. Flash came
along and once again redefined what an interface could be. By now, I hope
you're starting to see my point. Each change in technology and the tools to
build technology offers up new and different ways of doing things. Flash and
Directors timeline metaphor create an application which looks a certain way.
HyperCard's card metaphor creates a different look. I don't really think a
standard GUI would survive even a small time test for our changing platforms
and tools. Granted, I do believe good interface design is necessary in order
to create great products, but I believe good designers should create good
interfaces with or without GUI guidelines.

respectfully,

Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Richard
> Gaskin
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:26 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
>
>
> Ray G. Miller wrote:
>
> >> However, about Apple--I can no longer consider them to be the
> >> ultimate example of good interface, as they were before.
> >
> > Agreed, Curry, but what other consistent Guidelines are there?
> > Micro$lot? ;-)
>
> The current mess confronting multi-platform developers is costly
> to us all,
> with incalculable time wasted by the majority using Revolution, Java,
> RealBASIC, Director, Flash, or other cross-platform development system.  I
> wouldn't be surprised if the worldwide aggregate of productivity lost to
> such things came to several tens or possibly hundreds of millions
> of dollars
> annually.
>
> Some time ago I was considering an article with petition on a "Universal
> GUI", with the theme of "Put up or shut up."  There's probably a
> more polite
> way to phrase that, but I believe the central idea is important:
>
> As more and more development becomes cross- or multi-platform,
> although most
> modern GUIs share a majority of UI elements (common window
> trimmings, menus,
> button types, etc.), each OS has enough distinctions to drive
> everyone crazy
> trying to be "HIG-compliant" across conflicting HIGs.
>
> So maybe we developers could turn the tables: rather than enslaving
> ourselves to sometimes arbitrary specifications, we take it upon ourselves
> to make one recommendation for a Universal GUI.
>
> Any OS vendor could make suggestions for deviations from common behaviors,
> but they would only be incorprated into the Universal GUI spec if it's
> supported by research, with methodologies and results available for review
> so we can distinguish the truly research-supported recommendations.
>
> We should never have to write two layout routines for dialog controls, in
> which Win and Mac reverse the order of default buttons, for example.  We
> could pick one layout, based on research or, if such supporting
> documentation is unavailable, prevalence among current GUIs,
> making the odd
> one out either substantiate their difference with research or be ignored.
>
> One could rightly argue that a Universal GUI could lead to a
> "lowest common
> denominator" GUI.  We'd have to be watchful of that, but at the same time
> the sum of common elements is not bad, and in its simplicity there may be
> great value.  We could still keep unique appearances, since each
> OS provides
> a heathly set of hooks for rendering controls.  But there's no reason
> layouts, behavior, and nomenclature couldn't be made consistent, with the
> option supported by the strongest research setting the standard
> others would
> be asked to comply with.
>
> I realize it would be an uphill battle and likely without victory.  Worth
> pursuing, or better off left as a thought experiment? ;)
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Software Design and Development for Mac, Windows, Linux, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717        AIM: FourthWorldInc       Fax: 323-225-0716
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Jul 23 22:18:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed Jul 23 22:18:00 2003
Subject: Revolution 2.0.2 the $200 beta
In-Reply-To: <3F1F4844.7020102@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CE1A715A-BD6B-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com> <3F1F4844.7020102@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <3F1F4E48.9000504@hyperactivesw.com>

I wrote:

>> My understanding of my licensed tech support is:  "Up-and-running" 
>> technical support is provided to help get the product installed and 
>> working properly on your system.
> 
> What you describe certainly doesn't sound like you are either up and 
> running or working properly yet. The program has errored for you from 
> the start. It isn't erroring for many others, so I'd say there is 
> something different about your setup or your version of the program, and 
> you are entitled to some tech support, and I bet the company will be 
> willing to provide it. 

I should amend my comment. The unavailability of all the engines in the 
distribution builder may be a legitimate bug, but for the others, try 
testing first on a newly-created stack. Some of the things that aren't 
working in your original stack may work in a new one (like your 
experience with the message box.) If that is the case, then there is 
probably something in your stack preventing correct behavior, which 
would be outside your support contract.

But we may be able to help with those.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From themacguy at macosx.com  Wed Jul 23 22:25:06 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Wed Jul 23 22:25:06 2003
Subject: Crashing while printing a card containing a QT Player object
Message-ID: <81747BF4-BD85-11D7-8EFF-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

I decided to test MetaCard 2.5 against the crashing problem (print a 
card with a QT Player object referencing an on-disk movie). Yes, it 
crashes. So it appears to be the engine and not anything Rev-specific. 
(Well, now that they own the engine, I guess it -is- Rev-specific, eh?)

Barry



From themacguy at macosx.com  Wed Jul 23 22:50:01 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Wed Jul 23 22:50:01 2003
Subject: Fatal crash in "print card" with player object present
In-Reply-To: <200307240214.WAA16345@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <F46895E9-BD88-11D7-8EFF-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

David,

Frankly, I'm amazed that this kind of a bug can even exist. Did you 
just try it in v1.1.1 or did you know about it since prior to 2.0 (and 
has someone reported it already)?

For Rev 2.01 to crash under this circumstance is simply inexcusable. 
This renders my project (and all of the time and effort I've spent 
brainstorming with my customer) worthless until the problem is fixed or 
Rev can provide a reasonable work-around.

I don't mind "cat-skinning" (as in "more than one way...") but this is 
ridiculous.

Barry

On Wednesday, Jul 23, 2003, at 20:14 America/Denver, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:54:50 -0600
> Subject: Re: How to crash Rev 2.01 in OSX
> From: David Kwinter <david at kwinter.ca>
>
> On 7/23/03 7:48 PM, "Barry Levine" <themacguy at macosx.com> wrote:
>
>> to see if the problem was
>> introduced in v2.
>
>
> Problem exists in 1.1.1 as well, not another problem with 2.0 though I 
> don't
> blame you for half-expecting it to be  ; )
>



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Jul 23 22:50:28 2003
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed Jul 23 22:50:28 2003
Subject: Rev killing the Mac platform?
In-Reply-To: <20030722200022.55076.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0307232037230.28017-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Wow, miscdas! Perhaps our sysAdmin should have your experience; he spends
a considerable amount of time patching the various nasty Windows security
holes that are legendary even among PC users and for a long time assigned
a mere student assistant to maintain our Mac lab during those few times
that I, as a part-time faculty member, couldn't get to fixing the few
minor problems which did come up...

I guess that all the news reports associated with Code Red/Blue, Melissa,
I Love You, Chernobyl etc. etc. etc. were indeed all urban legends.

Thanks for setting us all straight on these important facts!

Judy;-P

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:

> =============
> Wow Richard, that is s definitive sounding almost "urban legend"-like
> statement! However, as a Windows user for all but the first year it came
> out, I have not spent dollar one in either avoiding viruses or by problems
> caused by viruses on any of my Windows systems!



From curry at pair.com  Wed Jul 23 23:32:01 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Wed Jul 23 23:32:01 2003
Subject: Print workaround (How to crash Rev 2.01 in OSX)
In-Reply-To: <200307240214.WAA16345@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307240214.WAA16345@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb450e5aef50@[68.86.46.40]>

If you run into any printing bugs, one quick workaround is to take a 
screenshot of the card and print that. If you and anyone else using 
the software like hip, retro-style lo-res prints, that is. :-)

Or, do a screenshot of the player rect only, and the rest of the card 
will still be hi-res, if it will print without crashing when the 
player is hidden.

Curry


From katir at hindu.org  Thu Jul 24 00:09:01 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu Jul 24 00:09:01 2003
Subject: HIG (How to make an Unclickable Check Box)
In-Reply-To: <26979484-BD39-11D7-8A8D-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <EB0D9A17-BD93-11D7-8948-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Well, i tried again and it works here... make sure there is  quote at  
the end...... I should probably compress that guy... you can also go  
just to

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/studyhall/

and download the standalone...


On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 08:11  AM, Klaus Major wrote:

>
>> go url  
>> "http://www.himalayanacademy.com/studyhall/yamas_niyamas/ 
>> Yamas_and_Niyamas.rev
>
> stack is corrupted, check for ~ backup file
>
> Sorry but this is what i get on RR 2.0.1 and MC 2.5...
>
> Anyone succeeded?
>
>
> Regards



From david at kwinter.ca  Thu Jul 24 00:20:01 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Thu Jul 24 00:20:01 2003
Subject: Fatal crash in "print card" with player object present
In-Reply-To: <F46895E9-BD88-11D7-8EFF-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <BB44C710.1D1F%david@kwinter.ca>

On 7/23/03 9:43 PM, "Barry Levine" <themacguy at macosx.com> wrote:

> David,
> 
> Frankly, I'm amazed that this kind of a bug can even exist. Did you
> just try it in v1.1.1

Yes, I just tried it, will Curry's workaround suit your customer's needs?



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 03:30:03 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Jul 24 03:30:03 2003
Subject: dragdata[html], clipboarddata[html] question
In-Reply-To: <BB455EE4.FA58%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <20030724082241.1467.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ron <rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp> wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I wanted to confirm this or be told it was expected
> behavior before I bug
> report it.
> 
> The problem is that text dragged or copied from a
> fld will not maintain the
> textfont property correctly when the fld has the
> textfont set by script.
> Thus the dragdata[html] [rtf] and
> clipboarddata[html] [rtf] do not report
> the correct data either.
> 
> To reproduce this:
> set the textfont of fld 1 to "not the default font
> of the stack"
> set the text to mytext
> 
> Now, select some text and drag it to another fld, or
> copy and paste it. The
> resulting text is in the default font of the stack,
> not the textfont
> reported of the original fld.
> 
> Now, select all in fld 1. Explicitly set the
> textfont from the menu. Then
> drag or copy and paste. The textfont is correctly
> maintained (and reported
> in dragdata and clipboarddata)
> 
> This is on OS 9 w/ RR 2.0.1
> 
> Is this expected? and does it happen on other OS's?
> 
> Thanks
> Ron
> 
> ps is there a work around?
> 

Hi Ron,

I would say it behaves as expected : the rendering
hierarchy of Revolution checks the font settings all
the way back to the mainStack's textFont, textSize and
textStyle properties to ultimately decide how text
will look.
Thus when you set the htmlText of field 1 to the
htmlText of field 2, and the textFont setting in field
1 is different from the textFont setting of field 2 ;
it will now be shown with the textFont of field 1,
except in those spots where the textFont was set at
chunk level.

This approach has its advantages and disadvantages :
when you copy text from field 1 to field 2, you don't
need to adapt the font. But in cases where you really
want the font, it's a different story.

As for a workaround, that gets trickier. You could try
to trap the 'copyKey' and 'dragStart' messages and
change the htmlText of your field before the engine
fills up the clipboardData or dragData.
You would do something like this [UNTESTED]:

on dragStart
  put the HTMLText of the target into tHTMLText
  put "<p><font face=" & quote & \
      the effective textFont of the target & \
      quote & ">") into tPReplacement
  replace "<p>" with tPReplacement in tHTMLText
  replace "</p>" with "</font></p>" in tHTMLText
  set the htmlText of the target to tHTMLText
  pass dragStart
end dragStart

Of course you'd still have to check if the target is a
field, and you may have to save the selectedChunk and
reselect it, and you may want to only replace those
"<p>" and "</p>" tags where there's no font-tag in
sight (regular expressions, anyone?) but the idea
should work, I think.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Thu Jul 24 04:00:03 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Thu Jul 24 04:00:03 2003
Subject: RTF and Unicode
In-Reply-To: <6FBB6D8C-BCDF-11D7-AB89-0003937B95F4@princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <1A570768-BDB4-11D7-BF46-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

Hallo Toma,

On Wednesday, Jul 23, 2003, at 09:29 Europe/Vienna, Toma Tasovac wrote:

> of course.  bugzilla is my new best friend... :)
>
wie hast du es denn geschafft dieses Urvieh zu deinem besten freund zu 
machen. Oder ist es nur die Menge der bugs..;) Ich h?tte auch eine 
menge bugs zu reporten aber ich kann das ding (UI) einfach nicht 
bedienen...
Irgendwelche tips wie ich dieses biest in den griff bekomme ohne 
stunden damit zu verschwenden...?

danke im voraus...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Thu Jul 24 04:10:09 2003
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham)
Date: Thu Jul 24 04:10:09 2003
Subject: change list layout?
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030724104134.026f4d78@pop.wanadoo.fr>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:03:25 -0700, John Tenny <jtenny at willamette.edu> wrote:

>Another list that I'm on puts the following information at the end of
>the digest thereby allowing the 'table of contents' to appear on the
>first screen. Sure saves a lot of scrolling. There is a one liner
>directing folks to the end of the message. Any chance.....?
[...]

Yes, and while we're at it, would it be possible to enforce plain text at 
least in the Digest - after all, this is supposed to be a plain text list. 
Recently we've not only had to look at yards of HTML (redundant as the 
message first appears in plain text and is then repeated at much greater 
HTML length), but we've also had a complete attachment (how did that get 
through??) of more than 50K, and in the last digest (1653), everything 
after a certain point was underlined on my Eudora screen because someone 
had used underline for emphasis.

I really appreciate that this is a superbly active list (it's continually 
saving my life), but garbage I can do without!

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 04:13:02 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Jul 24 04:13:02 2003
Subject: unclear on the concept, or major report printing bugs?
In-Reply-To: <04220D43-BD55-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <20030724090406.2479.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 02:04  PM, Jan
> Schenkel wrote:
> > You'll see in that backScript that you can trap
> the
> > 'revChangePage' message in your source stack and
> > update the data in a field dynamically with say,
> the
> > content of a field in a database ?
> > Hooking up revChangePage with revDBQueryGoToRecord
> > sounds like a very interesting plan to me ;-)
> >
> Jan, I'm trying to visualize this usage.
> revPrintBack sends 
> revChangePage when it advances from one card to the
> next. So on your 
> report layout stack you would have several cards.
> The report viewer 
> field would be grouped into a background and put on
> each card. you 
> would handle the revChangePage and adjust the scroll
> of the field with 
> long text (or update it's text with a db result). Is
> this the concept 
> you have in mind?
> 
> I have attempted to do this, and when I do
> "revPrintReport" from the 
> message box, I get
> 
> Message execution error:
> Error description: print: card or stack must be open
> to print it
> 
> However, my report layout card with the report
> viewer object is open 
> and selected. What am I missing here?
> 
> I feel like the Report Printing stuff in Rev 2.0 is
> going to be useful 
> eventually but it sure is a heck of a challenge
> figuring out how to use 
> it!!
> 
> It sure would be nice if someone could post a demo
> of the Report 
> Builder / Report View tools onto the User
> Contributions pages at 
> runrev.com
> 
> Alex Rice
> 

Hi Alex,

First of all, I couldn't agree more : a good demo
would go a long way towards opening it up ; the good
people at Revolution HQ insist that all the parts are
there to build wonderful reports ; but the absence of
a sample stack leaves us all scratching our heads.

Now to get back to the topic at hand ; it seems I was
a bit too quick when I suggested to hook revChangePage
to revDBQueryGoToRecord, unfortunately.
Upon digging some more in the backScript, I discovered
that's not the way this is supposed to be used --
perhaps it was anticipated this way and for reasons
unknown postponed to a later version.

To return to how the printing engine works with the
viewer object, I should point out that the report
stack will have only a single card (very important)
and this card is updated with data from the viewer
source objects, and then printed ; then the viewers
are updated again, and the same card is printed, with
the new data.

This means that in order to print a report with data
from a database, we need to :
- create a stack that will hold the data, placing the
fields and grouping them into a background
- create a report stack where we layout things
carefully, link to the fields in our data holder stack
- create a header and footer stack if applicable
- execute a query and fill up the data holder stack,
creating card after card and filling it with data from
the cursor
- from the look of things, you'd better update the
cREVReport["maxcards"] custom property of the viewer
objects as well with the number of cards of your data
holder stack
- then print the report ; the report generator will
print page after page, renewing the content of the
viewer objects with data from the holder stack.

To be honest with you, this seems like one heck of a
detour. So if I'm misreading the backScript, I'd sure
like to know. In fact, I'd love to be wrong.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Thu Jul 24 04:15:18 2003
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (Ron)
Date: Thu Jul 24 04:15:18 2003
Subject: dragdata[html], clipboarddata[html] question
In-Reply-To: <20030724082241.1467.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB45D04E.FA8C%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi Jan

>> The problem is that text dragged or copied from a
>> fld will not maintain the
>> textfont property correctly when the fld has the
>> textfont set by script.
>> Thus the dragdata[html] [rtf] and
>> clipboarddata[html] [rtf] do not report
>> the correct data either.
>> 
>> To reproduce this:
>> set the textfont of fld 1 to "not the default font
>> of the stack"
>> set the text to mytext
>> 
>> Now, select some text and drag it to another fld, or
>> copy and paste it. The
>> resulting text is in the default font of the stack,
>> not the textfont
>> reported of the original fld.
>> 
>> Now, select all in fld 1. Explicitly set the
>> textfont from the menu. Then
>> drag or copy and paste. The textfont is correctly
>> maintained (and reported
>> in dragdata and clipboarddata)
>> 

> I would say it behaves as expected : the rendering
> hierarchy of Revolution checks the font settings all
> the way back to the mainStack's textFont, textSize and
> textStyle properties to ultimately decide how text
> will look.
> Thus when you set the htmlText of field 1 to the
> htmlText of field 2, and the textFont setting in field
> 1 is different from the textFont setting of field 2 ;
> it will now be shown with the textFont of field 1,
> except in those spots where the textFont was set at
> chunk level.

I am aware of this procedure and use it to my advantage when setting the
htmltext of flds. However, I think it is different from what I tried above.
The textfont of dragged text does not maintain its textfont in my test. It
will maintain its textfont when the text has been selected and changed
explictly, but not when the fld's textfont was set by script. Try the test
above and see what happens.

Thanks 
Ron



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 04:50:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Jul 24 04:50:01 2003
Subject: dragdata[html], clipboarddata[html] question
In-Reply-To: <BB45D04E.FA8C%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <20030724094256.7213.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ron <rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp> wrote:
> Hi Jan
> 
> >> The problem is that text dragged or copied from a
> >> fld will not maintain the
> >> textfont property correctly when the fld has the
> >> textfont set by script.
> >> Thus the dragdata[html] [rtf] and
> >> clipboarddata[html] [rtf] do not report
> >> the correct data either.
> >> 
> >> To reproduce this:
> >> set the textfont of fld 1 to "not the default
> font
> >> of the stack"
> >> set the text to mytext
> >> 
> >> Now, select some text and drag it to another fld,
> or
> >> copy and paste it. The
> >> resulting text is in the default font of the
> stack,
> >> not the textfont
> >> reported of the original fld.
> >> 
> >> Now, select all in fld 1. Explicitly set the
> >> textfont from the menu. Then
> >> drag or copy and paste. The textfont is correctly
> >> maintained (and reported
> >> in dragdata and clipboarddata)
> >> 
> 
> > I would say it behaves as expected : the rendering
> > hierarchy of Revolution checks the font settings
> all
> > the way back to the mainStack's textFont, textSize
> and
> > textStyle properties to ultimately decide how text
> > will look.
> > Thus when you set the htmlText of field 1 to the
> > htmlText of field 2, and the textFont setting in
> field
> > 1 is different from the textFont setting of field
> 2 ;
> > it will now be shown with the textFont of field 1,
> > except in those spots where the textFont was set
> at
> > chunk level.
> 
> I am aware of this procedure and use it to my
> advantage when setting the
> htmltext of flds. However, I think it is different
> from what I tried above.
> The textfont of dragged text does not maintain its
> textfont in my test. It
> will maintain its textfont when the text has been
> selected and changed
> explictly, but not when the fld's textfont was set
> by script. Try the test
> above and see what happens.
> 
> Thanks 
> Ron
> 

Hi Ron,

Did you use :
  set the textFont of field "Foobar" to "Arial"
Or did you use :
  set the textFont of char 1 to -1 of field "Foobar" \
      to "Arial"

In the first case, you're merely changing things in
the hierarchy ; in the second case, you're setting the
textFont of a chunk, and thus doing functionally the
same as selecting the entire text and changing the
font via the menu.
The textFont of a chunk is preserved when copying or
dragging. The textFont of the field is not. Sounds
like the way it should behave, though admittedly it
can be a disadvantage.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Thu Jul 24 05:08:01 2003
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (Ron)
Date: Thu Jul 24 05:08:01 2003
Subject: dragdata[html], clipboarddata[html] question
In-Reply-To: <20030724094256.7213.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB45DD9C.FA93%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi again

> 
> Did you use :
> set the textFont of field "Foobar" to "Arial"
> Or did you use :
> set the textFont of char 1 to -1 of field "Foobar" \
> to "Arial"

I set the textfont of the fld, not the chars. Because I didn't know:

> In the first case, you're merely changing things in
> the hierarchy ; in the second case, you're setting the
> textFont of a chunk, and thus doing functionally the
> same as selecting the entire text and changing the
> font via the menu.

But without the flash produced when selecting all, changing the font and
deselecting via script.

The following is exactly what I needed to know.

> The textFont of a chunk is preserved when copying or
> dragging. The textFont of the field is not. Sounds
> like the way it should behave, though admittedly it
> can be a disadvantage.

learning something new every day,

thanks
Ron



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 24 07:19:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 24 07:19:01 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <1058998423.1160.5.camel@www.kmax.net>
Message-ID: <11C3D548-BDD0-11D7-844F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bonjour Pierre,

> Hi List,
>
> Is it a better way to implement substacks inside a Revolution 2.0.1
> project to have them opening as fast as they are opening in the 
> Metacard
> 2.5 environnement ?

Do you mean "speed"?

In that case i think no...

If i remember right only the mainstack of a file (which may have 0 to 
several
substacks in that namely file) will be loaded completely into memory.

All other (sub-)stacks are loaded from the hd only when needed.

So i think it won't make a difference since substacks are loaded from 
the hd
just like separate stacks...

(Correct me if i'm wrong ;-)

> Thanks,

A votre service :-)

Hope that helps.

> -- 
> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>
> Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
> Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif

Au revoir...

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Jul 24 08:28:03 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu Jul 24 08:28:03 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <11C3D548-BDD0-11D7-844F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <11C3D548-BDD0-11D7-844F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1059052850.1240.21.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 14:12, Klaus Major wrote: 
> Bonjour Pierre,

Guten Tag, Klaus,

> > Hi List,
> >
> > Is it a better way to implement substacks inside a Revolution 2.0.1
> > project to have them opening as fast as they are opening in the 
> > Metacard
> > 2.5 environnement ?
> 
> Do you mean "speed"?

Yes.
> In that case i think no...
> 
> If i remember right only the mainstack of a file (which may have 0 to 
> several
> substacks in that namely file) will be loaded completely into memory.
> 
> All other (sub-)stacks are loaded from the hd only when needed.
> 
> So i think it won't make a difference since substacks are loaded from 
> the hd
> just like separate stacks...

Oh ! I understand my possible mistake... I will try to rebuild my test
app in saving each substack as a separate stack and letting each stay in
ram along the complete session. If this is the right answer to my "open
stacks speed problem", i will then be realy happy to become able to use
RR in production-grade web/erp apps development.

> (Correct me if i'm wrong ;-)
> 
> > Thanks,
> 
> A votre service :-)
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> > -- 
> > Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
> >
> > Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
> > Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif
> 
> Au revoir...
> 
> Regards
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


Thanks a lot, und bis bald, Klaus. 


-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Thu Jul 24 08:32:00 2003
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Thu Jul 24 08:32:00 2003
Subject: quit
In-Reply-To: <9567E370-BD27-11D7-9EA1-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <49A74FF1-BDDA-11D7-A781-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>

Hi Yves,

I found another way to get French menus.
It's more simple and it isn't needed to do something every time the 
standalone is rebuild.
I tried it with Rev 2.0.1 on X 10.2.6

You have to modify the Rev app.
- select the Revolution app and show the package contents
- open Contents then Resources folder
- you should have 3 files inside : Revolution.icns, Revolution.rsrc and 
RevolutionDocs.icns
- create a folder named French.lproj
That's all.

Run Rev, now the Quit Revolution menu should be Quitter Revolution, and 
some system menus are in French.
Rebuild your standalone. It will inherit the French.lproj folder.

To give short explanation, at launch time, the app gets the preferred 
language from the international panel and tries to find a folder with 
the same name.
If the folder is missing, the app uses the language defined in the 
property CFBundleDevelopmentRegion

Regards.

Thierry Arbellot

On Wednesday, Jul 23, 2003, at 18:06 Europe/Paris, Thierry Arbellot 
wrote:

> Hi Yves,
>
> I have tested the shutdownRequest handler and it does work fine.
> Thanks Jeanne.
>
>> I work on a French system and like to replace the "quit" menu with 
>> "quitter"
>> Don't find how ???
>
> This is little bit more tricky.
> Actually, when Rev builds the standalone, it defines the development 
> region as to be English.
> This property setup the system menus to be in English, like Quit but 
> also all items in the Apple menu and the Help menu title.
> To change them to be in French, you have to do the following (I just 
> tested it on my Mac):
> - launch the Property List Editor app - it's provided with the 
> development tools from Apple
> - open the file Info.plist located in your app package contents
> - click on the triangle in front of root to list all properties
> - the first property is CFBundleDevelopmentRegion, Class String, Value 
> English
> - double click on English to make it editable, and replace it with 
> French
> - save and close
> - launch your standalone to see the result
>
> Good luck
>
> Thierry Arbellot
>
> On Wednesday, Jul 23, 2003, at 15:56 Europe/Paris, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto 
> wrote:
>
>> At 4:29 AM -0700 7/23/03, Klaus Major wrote:
>>>> i work on Mac OS X
>>>>
>>>> The quit menu is in the application menu
>>>> I don't find how I can trap the message "quit" when the user select
>>>> this item ???
>>>
>>> I am not sure, but i don't think that you can trap "quit" per se.
>>
>>
>>
>> When all else fails.... ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> "How to respond to quitting an OS X application
>>
>> On OS X systems, the "Quit" menu item is part of the Application menu,
>> which is displayed by the operating system rather than by the 
>> application.
>> Because of this, choosing "Quit" on OS X systems does not send a 
>> menuPick
>> message, so you cannot handle quitting in a menuPick handler.
>>
>> Instead, choosing "Quit" sends an Apple Event (class "aevt", ID 
>> "quit") to
>> the application. If you don't intercept this Apple Event in an 
>> appleEvent
>> handler, Revolution sends a shutdownRequest message in response to the
>> Apple Event. To respond to the user choosing "Quit", handle either of 
>> these
>> messages.
>>
>> Tip:  For easiest cross-platform development, place all the code you 
>> want
>> to execute on quitting in a shutdownRequest handler."
>>
>> --
>> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
>> Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
>> http://www.runrev.com/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Thu Jul 24 08:34:03 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Thu Jul 24 08:34:03 2003
Subject: Drag=?ISO-8859-1?B?tE60?=Drop issue Mac Os 9.04
In-Reply-To: <200307240853.EAA28128@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB45AB57.B2A%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi listas!

I ran into an interesting issue today. I already found a workaround and I
want to let you know.

I coded a nice dragDrop handler and ran into the following:
(Script simplified)

on dragEnter
  set the acceptDrop to true
end dragEnter
on dragDrop
  repeat for each line i in the dragData
    if there is a file i then put i&cr after temp
    if there is a folder i then put i&cr after temp2
  end repeat
  put temp into fld "files"
  put temp2 into fld "folders"
  answer "blah!" with "o.k."
end dragDrop

Crashes the finder with error 8. :-(
I found out that I can?t use an answer dialogue inside the dragDrop handler
my Os 9.04 machine
This does not happen on OsX (Don?t know about Windows).
Could anyone test it on an Os higher then 9.04 and smaller than X for
confirmation, please?

Here is the workaround:

on dragEnter
  set the acceptDrop to true
end dragEnter
on dragDrop
  repeat for each line i in the dragData
    if there is a file i then put i&cr after temp
    if there is a folder i then put i&cr after temp2
  end repeat
  put temp into fld "files"
  put temp2 into fld "folders"
  send fragmich to me in 15 ticks
end dragDrop
on fragmich
  answer "blah!" with "o.k."
end fragmich

This doesn?t seem to crash. :-)

Regards,

Malte



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Thu Jul 24 08:57:01 2003
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Thu Jul 24 08:57:01 2003
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_Drag=B4N=B4Drop_issue_Mac_Os_9.04?=
In-Reply-To: <BB45AB57.B2A%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <B56EB24E-BDDD-11D7-9850-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>

Malte,

You should upgrade to Mac OS 9.1.  It is free to upgrade to and much 
more stable
than version 9.04.  Backup and run your disk diagnostics before you do 
it though.

Rick Harrison



From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Jul 24 09:03:03 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Jul 24 09:03:03 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <1059052850.1240.21.camel@www.kmax.net>
References: <11C3D548-BDD0-11D7-844F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
 <1059052850.1240.21.camel@www.kmax.net>
Message-ID: <a05100303bb4595957ce8@[216.229.107.195]>

>  > If i remember right only the mainstack of a file (which may have 0 to
>>  several
>>  substacks in that namely file) will be loaded completely into memory.
>>
>>  All other (sub-)stacks are loaded from the hd only when needed.
>>
>>  So i think it won't make a difference since substacks are loaded from
>>  the hd
>>  just like separate stacks...
>
>Oh ! I understand my possible mistake... I will try to rebuild my test
>app in saving each substack as a separate stack and letting each stay in
>ram along the complete session. If this is the right answer to my "open
>stacks speed problem", i will then be realy happy to become able to use
>RR in production-grade web/erp apps development.
>
>>  (Correct me if i'm wrong ;-)

I can speak with absolute authority; but I believe this is incorrect:

Open a mainstack; open the Application Browser; all substacks are now 
visible & accessible.

-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Jul 24 09:05:03 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Jul 24 09:05:03 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
Message-ID: <a05100304bb4596b2bfe4@[216.229.107.195]>

>I can speak with absolute authority;

Damn spell-checker errors: that was supposed to be "can't"     :{`)

-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 24 09:15:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 24 09:15:01 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
Message-ID: <200307241407.h6OE7pd08851@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

You are correct though. When you open a stack with substacks all of them are loaded completely into memory.

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:00:15
>
>>I can speak with absolute authority;
>
>Damn spell-checker errors: that was supposed to be
>"can't"     :{`)
>
>-- 
>
>Rob Cozens
>CCW, Serendipity Software Company
>http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm
>
>"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
>Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
>from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Thu Jul 24 09:44:03 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Thu Jul 24 09:44:03 2003
Subject: Database access in Rev Studio
In-Reply-To: <200307232135.RAA02178@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB45BBC4.204F%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

Has someone experienced database limitations under the Studio license RR
2.0.2?

I found impossible to SELECT more that 22 records using the MySQL and this
behaves like the limitation I had with the previous non professional
licenses. I didn't expect that according to the comparison table of the new
licenses.

Do I do/catch something wrong? I run under MacOSX and use the stack called
"MySQL tests" (I could have credit the author here but do not find the name
in the stack).

Thanks for effective help!

Joel G



From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Jul 24 09:46:03 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu Jul 24 09:46:03 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <200307241407.h6OE7pd08851@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
References: <200307241407.h6OE7pd08851@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <1059057489.1241.42.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 19:07, Edwin Gore wrote:
> You are correct though. When you open a stack with substacks all of them are loaded completely into memory.

So, it's not really a good news in regard of the speed problem about
opening substacks from thr Rev2 IDE.

Can some one there, please, explain why this take just some ticks from
within the MC IDE (2.32 to 2.5) and seconds (some times up to 10) from
within the Rev 2.0.1 IDE.

As this development is dedicated to be used as an ERP front-end app, the
running speed of its end-user GUI is essential.

I know the general guidle-line about how to speed-up Metatalk code and
Metacard apps but nothing about how to speed-up specific Transcript code
and Rev apps.

What would i have to learn to get good results in about this under
Revolution ?

Richard ?

Thanks for the help.

P.S. : platforms : Jaguar 10.2.6/IBook G3 800 640 Mo RAM, Suse 8
Pro/Sony Laptop Athlon XP 1.7 Ghz 512 Mo Ram

> 
> >----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
> >From: Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net>
> >To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >Sent: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:00:15
> >
> >>I can speak with absolute authority;
> >
> >Damn spell-checker errors: that was supposed to be
> >"can't"     :{`)
> >
> >-- 
> >
> >Rob Cozens
> >CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> >http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm
> >
> >"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> >Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
> >
> >from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> >_______________________________________________
> >use-revolution mailing list
> >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
> >tion
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
-- 
Best Regards, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 24 09:53:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 24 09:53:00 2003
Subject: Debugger - sort of working
Message-ID: <200307241445.h6OEjnM18370@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Okay...for some mysterious reason, the debugger started sort of working for me this morning.

I haven't changed anything about my setup, but this morning the debugger, which previously always dove into scripts, even when clicking "Stepover" started mostly working for me. Stepover now steps over functions etc, except for one funtion which I use to figure out file paths. I have no idea why it would stepoever everything except for this one function though. I'll be consistantly clicking stepover and it works, except when it runs into this one script - even if the script is called by another function tht it has successfully stepped over!

Here's the function that is giving me fits, anyone have any ideas? I don't see anything that I am doing that would make this non-stepoverable.

function getPath pathType, category, section
  
  switch pathtype
    
  case "app"
    set the itemDelimiter to "/"
    put item 1 to -2 of the effective filename of stack "aassist" into thePath
    set the itemdelimiter to comma
    break
  case "document"
    set the itemDelimiter to "/"
    put item 1 to -2 of the effective filename of stack gDocument into thePath
    set the itemdelimiter to comma
    break
  case "image"
    if char 2 of field "imagefolder" of card 1 <> ":" then
      put getpath("document") & "/" & field "imageFolder" of card 1 of stack gDocument into thePath
    else
      put field "imagefolder" of card 1 into thePath
    end if
    break
  case "htmlFolder"
    put gHtmlFolder & "/" into thePath
    break
  case "htmlCatFolder"
    put stripchars(category) into category
    put getPath("htmlFolder") & category & "/" into thePath
    break
  case "htmlSubFolder"
    put stripchars(category) into category
    put getPath("htmlCatFolder",category) & section & "/" into thePath
    break
  case "htmlImage"
    put getPath("htmlFolder") & "images/" into thePath
    break
  case "ftpFolder"
    put field "ftpHost" of card 1 of stack gDocument & "/" & field "ftpDir" of card 1 of stack gDocument into thePath
    break
  case "ftpCatFolder"
    put stripchars(category) into category
    put getPath("ftpFolder") & category & "/" into thePath
    break
  case "ftpSubFolder"
    put stripchars(category) into category
    put getPath("ftpCatFolder",category) & Section & "/" into thePath
    break
  case "ftpImage"
    put getPath("ftpFolder") & "images/" into thePath
    break
  end switch
  return thePath
end getPath


From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 24 09:57:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 24 09:57:01 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
Message-ID: <200307241450.h6OEo3L19464@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Well, I can't say with any certainty, but my guess is that the difference you are seeing has to do with the amount of extra stuff that is going on in the Rev IDE compared to the sparse Metacard IDE.

Have you tried creating a standalone that opens the same stack? I would expect that to be much faster. Whenever the Rev IDE is active there is a whole bunch of interface code, all written in Xtalk, that has to execute.

I'm thinking that might be the difference you are seeing.

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Pierre Sahores 
>To: "use-revolution at lists.runrev.com"
><use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: 24 Jul 2003 16:38:10
>
>On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 19:07, Edwin Gore wrote:
>> You are correct though. When you open a stack
>with substacks all of the=
>m are loaded completely into memory.
>
>So, it's not really a good news in regard of the
>speed problem about
>opening substacks from thr Rev2 IDE.
>
>Can some one there, please, explain why this take
>just some ticks from
>within the MC IDE (2.32 to 2.5) and seconds (some
>times up to 10) from
>within the Rev 2.0.1 IDE.
>
>As this development is dedicated to be used as an
>ERP front-end app, the
>running speed of its end-user GUI is essential.
>
>I know the general guidle-line about how to
>speed-up Metatalk code and
>Metacard apps but nothing about how to speed-up
>specific Transcript code
>and Rev apps.
>
>What would i have to learn to get good results in
>about this under
>Revolution ?
>
>Richard ?
>
>Thanks for the help.
>
>P.S. : platforms : Jaguar 10.2.6/IBook G3 800 640
>Mo RAM, Suse 8
>Pro/Sony Laptop Athlon XP 1.7 Ghz 512 Mo Ram
>
>>=20
>> >----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>> >From: Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net>
>> >To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> >Sent: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:00:15
>> >
>> >>I can speak with absolute authority;
>> >
>> >Damn spell-checker errors: that was supposed to
>be
>> >"can't"	:{`)
>> >
>> >--=20
>> >
>> >Rob Cozens
>> >CCW, Serendipity Software Company
>> >http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm
>> >
>> >"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
>> >Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>> >
>> >from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne
>(1572-1631)
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >use-revolution mailing list
>> >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>
>> >tion
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>
>--=20
>Best Regards, Pierre Sahores
>
>Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
>Penser et produire l'avantage comp=E9titif
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revol
>u
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 24 10:00:03 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 24 10:00:03 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <1059057489.1241.42.camel@www.kmax.net>
Message-ID: <7FE617B6-BDE6-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 08:38  AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
> So, it's not really a good news in regard of the speed problem about
> opening substacks from thr Rev2 IDE.
>
> Can some one there, please, explain why this take just some ticks from
> within the MC IDE (2.32 to 2.5) and seconds (some times up to 10) from
> within the Rev 2.0.1 IDE.

My project has 17 substacks and it opens up in < 2 seconds, in the Rev 
IDE.
(on a 466 MHz Mac). Seems very fast to me.

Why don't you post what's in your startup, openStack, preOpenStack, 
openCard and preOpenCard handlers.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Jul 24 10:14:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Jul 24 10:14:01 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <1059057489.1241.42.camel@www.kmax.net>
References: <200307241407.h6OE7pd08851@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
 <1059057489.1241.42.camel@www.kmax.net>
Message-ID: <a05100300bb45a563336f@[216.229.107.195]>

>Richard ?

Richard is probably the best person to answer this outside of Scott 
Raney or someone from RunRev.(oops!, I guess Scott is "someone from 
RunRev" now).

Richard copied me on a private eMail a week or so ago comparing the 
number of frontScripts, backScripts, and libraries used by MC vs the 
number used by RunRev.  There may be something going on there.

BTW, are you finding the speed difference in the development 
environment, the runtime environment, or both, Pierre?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Jul 24 10:24:03 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu Jul 24 10:24:03 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <7FE617B6-BDE6-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <7FE617B6-BDE6-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <1059059829.2238.18.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 16:52, Alex Rice wrote:
> On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 08:38  AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
> > So, it's not really a good news in regard of the speed problem about
> > opening substacks from thr Rev2 IDE.
> >
> > Can some one there, please, explain why this take just some ticks from
> > within the MC IDE (2.32 to 2.5) and seconds (some times up to 10) from
> > within the Rev 2.0.1 IDE.
> 
> My project has 17 substacks and it opens up in < 2 seconds, in the Rev 
> IDE.
> (on a 466 MHz Mac). Seems very fast to me.
> 
> Why don't you post what's in your startup, openStack, preOpenStack, 
> openCard and preOpenCard handlers.
> 
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the suggest :

Here is the main stack stack's script : 

> on navswitcher
>   global SelectedPick
>   if the shiftkey is down then edit script of me
>   else go cd SelectedPick
>   set the label of btn "Navigation" to SelectedPick
>   set the menuhistory of btn "Navigation" to lineoffset(SelectedPick,btn "Navigation")
> end navswitcher
> 
> on editmainstackscript
>   edit script of me
> end editmainstackscript
> 
> on openstack
>   go cd 1
>   if the short name of me is not "evoecoles" then
>     set the menuhistory of btn "NavigationX1" to 1
>     set the menuhistory of btn "NavigationX2" to 1
>   else if there is a button "Navigation" then set the menuhistory of btn "Navigation" to 1
> end openstack
> 
> on quitter
>   if the shiftkey is down then edit script of me
>   else
>     answer "Souhaitez-vous vraiment quitter" && quote & "Evolution-Coll?ges" & quote && "?" with "Annuler" or "Quitter"
>     if it is "Quitter" then
>       wait 1
>       quit
>     end if
>   end if
> end quitter
> 
> 
And here the substacks stack's script (11 substacks with the same stack's script code) :

> on openCard
>   send mouseup to btn "rafraichir"
> end openCard
> 
> 
And here the "rafraichir" button script :

> on mouseUp
>   if the shiftkey is down then edit script of me
>   else
>     lock screen
>     set the height of grp "tableau1" to 548
>     set the width of grp "tableau1" to 700
>     set the top of grp "tableau1" to 40
>     set the left of grp "tableau1" to 8
>   end if
> end mouseUp
> 
> 
Comment : the "tableau1" grp is hosting input fields, ordered as a kind of spreadsheets calc.

Thanks for your advice.
-- 
Best Regards, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Jul 24 10:25:03 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu Jul 24 10:25:03 2003
Subject: Focus
In-Reply-To: <200307241358.JAA05809@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307241358.JAA05809@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bb45a7cd945b@[66.81.139.215]>

When I use a button (with the message "go to card 1 of stack "foo") 
to  take me from the main stack to a substack, I need to click twice 
on any substack button--once, it seem, to make the stack the focus 
of the browse tool and a second time to get the button to receive the 
"mouseUp" message.

Is there some way, other than clicking on the stack window, to make 
the stack alert to the browse tool?

Jim


From bill at igame3d.com  Thu Jul 24 10:28:01 2003
From: bill at igame3d.com (WIlliam Griffin)
Date: Thu Jul 24 10:28:01 2003
Subject: The Message Box no-action bug solved
In-Reply-To: <200307240852.EAA28079@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CFBC4FF7-BDEB-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

>
From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> I should amend my comment. The unavailability of all the engines in the
> distribution builder may be a legitimate bug, but for the others, try
> testing first on a newly-created stack. Some of the things that aren't
> working in your original stack may work in a new one (like your
> experience with the message box.) If that is the case, then there is
> probably something in your stack preventing correct behavior, which
> would be outside your support contract.

Dear readers I have tracked down the Message Box bug, hope this helps
anyone who runs into this situation too.


 > then there is probably something in your stack preventing correct 
behavior<

That was a frightening prospect, this project is getting bigger by the 
minute.
It's a full blown 3D game development application and my first app.

I did a save and took a look at what was saving...sure enough "Message 
Box"
was part of the project save, so I did a "close and removed from 
memory"..which warns
me...Fearlessly I said "yes remove from memory and close", then I chose 
Message Box
from the menu, what should appear? The Metacard style message box, as 
an editable stack, and it worked perfectly..but of course it wasn't the 
rev message box..so thats not the solution.

My Solution:
quit rev without saving
open my stack in Metacard
view stack components (where is this option in rev? couldn't find it)
select message box (its not open of course)
delete (yes I really do want to delete, thank you very much)
save
quit Metacard
open rev
open my stack
open message box
put 1+3 with result 4!!!
open stack "Array"..yeehaa there it is!

Ta-Da!

Now how do I make sure the message box doesn't get saved into my 
project in rev?

What were the other issues I was having, I'm so happy I forget... :-)

Ok back to work, la la la.
Have a nice day.

Bill Griffin
bill at igame3d.com
www.igame3d.com






From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Jul 24 10:29:00 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu Jul 24 10:29:00 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bb45a563336f@[216.229.107.195]>
References: <200307241407.h6OE7pd08851@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
	 <1059057489.1241.42.camel@www.kmax.net>
	 <a05100300bb45a563336f@[216.229.107.195]>
Message-ID: <1059060073.2311.22.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 17:08, Rob Cozens wrote:
> >Richard ?
> 
> Richard is probably the best person to answer this outside of Scott 
> Raney or someone from RunRev.(oops!, I guess Scott is "someone from 
> RunRev" now).
> 
> Richard copied me on a private eMail a week or so ago comparing the 
> number of frontScripts, backScripts, and libraries used by MC vs the 
> number used by RunRev.  There may be something going on there.
> 
> BTW, are you finding the speed difference in the development 
> environment, the runtime environment, or both, Pierre?

In the development environment, at least, as long as i did'nt test the
runtime environment for yet.
-- 
Bests, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 24 10:31:07 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 24 10:31:07 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <BE9730B5-BD5C-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <CDA41978-BDEA-11D7-8879-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 04:26 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> "g" is a valid modifier for Perl matches


The only modifiers at the page I mentioned are ismx.  (I use i but use 
methods where the others do not apply.)  Maybe the work of g can be 
done with some combination of those?

The page is this:
http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.6.1/pod/perlre.html

I would guess that Revolution regex is based on some library and there 
might be better docs for that.

What would the g modifier do?

Dar Scott



From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Jul 24 10:31:52 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu Jul 24 10:31:52 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <200307241450.h6OEo3L19464@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
References: <200307241450.h6OEo3L19464@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <1059060219.2238.25.camel@www.kmax.net>

Hi Edwin,

On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 19:50, Edwin Gore wrote:
> Well, I can't say with any certainty, but my guess is that the difference you are seeing has to do with the amount of extra stuff that is going on in the Rev IDE compared to the sparse Metacard IDE.
> 
> Have you tried creating a standalone that opens the same stack? I would expect that to be much faster. Whenever the Rev IDE is active there is a whole bunch of interface code, all written in Xtalk, that has to execute.

I will do the test. Thanks for your help ;-)


> I'm thinking that might be the difference you are seeing.
> 
> >----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
> >From: Pierre Sahores 
> >To: "use-revolution at lists.runrev.com"
> ><use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >Sent: 24 Jul 2003 16:38:10
> >
> >On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 19:07, Edwin Gore wrote:
> >> You are correct though. When you open a stack
> >with substacks all of the=
> >m are loaded completely into memory.
> >
> >So, it's not really a good news in regard of the
> >speed problem about
> >opening substacks from thr Rev2 IDE.
> >
> >Can some one there, please, explain why this take
> >just some ticks from
> >within the MC IDE (2.32 to 2.5) and seconds (some
> >times up to 10) from
> >within the Rev 2.0.1 IDE.
> >
> >As this development is dedicated to be used as an
> >ERP front-end app, the
> >running speed of its end-user GUI is essential.
> >
> >I know the general guidle-line about how to
> >speed-up Metatalk code and
> >Metacard apps but nothing about how to speed-up
> >specific Transcript code
> >and Rev apps.
> >
> >What would i have to learn to get good results in
> >about this under
> >Revolution ?
> >
> >Richard ?
> >
> >Thanks for the help.
> >
> >P.S. : platforms : Jaguar 10.2.6/IBook G3 800 640
> >Mo RAM, Suse 8
> >Pro/Sony Laptop Athlon XP 1.7 Ghz 512 Mo Ram
> >
> >>=20
> >> >----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
> >> >From: Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net>
> >> >To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> >Sent: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:00:15
> >> >
> >> >>I can speak with absolute authority;
> >> >
> >> >Damn spell-checker errors: that was supposed to
> >be
> >> >"can't"	:{`)
> >> >
> >> >--=20
> >> >
> >> >Rob Cozens
> >> >CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> >> >http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm
> >> >
> >> >"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> >> >Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
> >> >
> >> >from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne
> >(1572-1631)
> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >use-revolution mailing list
> >> >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>
> >> >tion
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>
> >--=20
> >Best Regards, Pierre Sahores
> >
> >Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
> >Penser et produire l'avantage comp=E9titif
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >use-revolution mailing list
> >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revol
> >u
> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
> >tion
> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
> >tion
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 24 10:35:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 24 10:35:02 2003
Subject: report builder examples needed
In-Reply-To: <20030724090406.2479.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5FF835D0-BDEB-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 03:04  AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> First of all, I couldn't agree more : a good demo
> would go a long way towards opening it up ; the good
> people at Revolution HQ insist that all the parts are
> there to build wonderful reports ; but the absence of
> a sample stack leaves us all scratching our heads.

Plea to RR HQ:

I'm a smart guy (sort of) and Jan is surely one of the brightest 
programmers on the list and we are both scratching our heads about the 
Report Builder. Please provide a tutorial and a demo stack.

> To be honest with you, this seems like one heck of a
> detour. So if I'm misreading the backScript, I'd sure
> like to know. In fact, I'd love to be wrong.

Interesting... it does raise more questions for me about Report Builder 
though.

Report Builder is supposed to save it's settings to the "this card" 
where "this card" is the sole card on the stack, i.e. the report layout 
card. But Report Builder has a print range tab, with selection for 
ranges of cards. I would expect that to refer to the cards on the stack 
of "this card" which we think should only have 1 card. Also, in the 
inspector for a report viewer, one can select a source object from any 
stack and any card! So the print range is totally ambiguous: it could 
apply to card ranges on:

- "report/layout stack" (1 card or multiple cards?)
- stack 1 of source objects
- stack 2 of source objects
- ... stack N of source objects

Which means what? We have to always use the expression builder for 
cards in Print Range, and somehow tell it not to traverse the card(s) 
in the report layout stack?

AAARRGH <- sound of me needing more coffee :-)


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jul 24 10:44:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Jul 24 10:44:00 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <200307241450.h6OEo3L19464@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <BB454AE2.31351%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Edwin Gore wrote:

> Well, I can't say with any certainty, but my guess is that the difference you
> are seeing has to do with the amount of extra stuff that is going on in the
> Rev IDE compared to the sparse Metacard IDE.

Application Browser aside, the only thing it _needs_ to do is open the stack
and make an entry in an array of saved and unsaved files.

What else could it be doing?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Jul 24 10:55:03 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu Jul 24 10:55:03 2003
Subject: Player object causing crash during print card in OSX - not in OS9
Message-ID: <067954B3-BDEE-11D7-B460-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

On a whim, I decided to test the "crash during print" problem (player 
object referencing a movie, print card, *boom*) on an older PowerBook 
running 9.2.2 and Rev 2.01. It behaves exactly like the Windows version 
of the program. No crash. The first frame of the movie still doesn't 
appear on the printed page but at least it doesn't crash.

Now to check whether it's just the IDE; will the crash occur with a 
compiled app for OS9, OSX, or Windows? Stay tuned.

Barry



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 24 11:01:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:01:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <CDA41978-BDEA-11D7-8879-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <1662764C-BDEF-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 09:23  AM, Dar Scott wrote:

> The only modifiers at the page I mentioned are ismx.  (I use i but use 
> methods where the others do not apply.)  Maybe the work of g can be 
> done with some combination of those?

Actually the "g" modified is mentioned on that page (towards the 
bottom) It's meaning in Perl is "globally find all matches". It matches 
as many times as it can, which is especially relevant in an 
substitution context.

transcript's replaceText() works on all matches by default, which is 
why it doesn't need to understand "g" modifier, I am guessing.

In _Programming  Perl_ p.150

i,s,m,x,o are pattern modifiers (apply to the regex)
g,cg are are pattern modifiers (change the behavior of the match 
operation itself)

Matching Modifiers (m//)
i - ignore alphabetic case
m - let ^ and $ and match next to embedded newline
s - let . match newline and ignore deprecated $* variable (match 
multiple things)
x - ignore whitespace and permit comments in pattern
o - compile pattern once only
g - globally find all matches
cg - allow continued search after failed /g match

Substitution Modifiers (s//)
i,m,s,x,o,g (same as above)
e - evaluate the right side as an expression

There are also some modifiers for Translation (tr//)

> I would guess that Revolution regex is based on some library and there 
> might be better docs for that.

That would be good know. I am guessing there is a C library called PCRE 
and that's what is used in RR.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 24 11:08:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:08:00 2003
Subject: Minor script editor annoyance
Message-ID: <200307241600.h6OG0lq42189@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Wondering if anybody else ever sees this...

Occasionally when I edit a script and click "Apply" I get an script compile error message saying that a comma was expected at some seemingly random point in the script. going back to the script, entering a space (anywhere) and deleting it to reactivate the "Apply" button, and clicking "Apply" causes the script to comile without any problem.

It's a minor thing, and easy to work around, since it just takes a moment to reapply the script, but it's weird.


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 24 11:08:29 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:08:29 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <200307241407.h6OE7pd08851@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <103DDF63-BDF0-11D7-844F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Rob, Pierre and Edwin and all,

> You are correct though. When you open a stack with substacks all of 
> them are loaded completely into memory.

Exactly!

Looks like i did misunderstand something completely ;-)

This is from the old CrossWorldsComputing Website, the MetaCard section.

Still a good resource because of the "MetaClass"...

Some very good tutorials there...

http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/metaclass/class2.htm

Well here's that part from

The Basics:
Understanding stacks, subStacks and mainStacks

################
Whats special about a mainStack?

Whenever you open a MetaCard document (e.g. from the desktop or using
the MetaCard File menu) it will open the mainStack from inside that 
file and
display it on screen.

None of the other stacks in the file will be displayed,
though they are all loaded into memory!!!
################

So its definitively official :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


P.S.
I want the free StarterKit back!!!
Preferrably with the same behaviour as version 1.x:
Doubleclicking a stack will NOT load the IDE :-)

THAT was the missing Rev-player...



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Thu Jul 24 11:11:01 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:11:01 2003
Subject: Keeping a palette visible when clicking on Finder
In-Reply-To: <200307241359.JAA05838@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB45CFD1.B2E%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi List,

one more question.
I have a mainstack that loads several stacks and uses one of it as a
pallette window. When I click on the finder, the palette Window disappears
(The main stack remains visible) and returns if I click on the mainstack
again. Well even though this is the behaviour I expected I need to keep the
palette visible while the finder is active. I can?t make that stack the
mainstack of my app, as it needs to save. :-(


Any ideas?

Regards,

Malte



From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Jul 24 11:11:33 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:11:33 2003
Subject: Focus
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bb45a7cd945b@[66.81.139.215]>
References: <200307241358.JAA05809@www.runrev.com>
 <a05210601bb45a7cd945b@[66.81.139.215]>
Message-ID: <a05100301bb45b30c6950@[216.229.107.247]>

>Is there some way, other than clicking on the stack window, to make 
>the stack alert to the browse tool?

Hi Jim,

If the application allows, try opening the stack with a modal or 
modeless command.

If the stack you're coming from does not need to remain open, open 
the new stack in the same window.

Hope this helps.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Jul 24 11:11:58 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:11:58 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <1059060073.2311.22.camel@www.kmax.net>
References: <200307241407.h6OE7pd08851@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>	
 <1059057489.1241.42.camel@www.kmax.net>	
 <a05100300bb45a563336f@[216.229.107.195]>
 <1059060073.2311.22.camel@www.kmax.net>
Message-ID: <a05100302bb45b3d297a2@[216.229.107.247]>

>In the development environment, at least, as long as i did'nt test the
>runtime environment for yet.

Try turning off the development environment ["Suspend Development 
Tools" from the Development menu] and see what happens.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Jul 24 11:13:03 2003
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:13:03 2003
Subject: LibURL & file-encoding question
In-Reply-To: <BB4433B3.B3F3%tkuypers@pandora.be>
References: <BB4433B3.B3F3%tkuypers@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <p06001201bb45b1c64bbb@[192.168.123.7]>

At 12:44 pm +0200 23/7/03, tkuypers at pandora.be wrote:
>Jan,
>
>I figured your solution out about 3 minutes after I sent my mail, but too
>bad... It's a no-go :-(
>
>What happens:
>
>Use Explorer to fetch the XML data from the database:
>   -> Shows perfect in the browser.
>Save the file as an XML-file and re-open it:
>   -> Parsing error
>Open the XML in Notepad and save with UTF8 encoding:
>   -> Shows perfect in the browser.

It looks like the problem is in the way Explorer saves the file. I'm 
assuming the original data is utf8 but it looks like it is getting 
saved as ISO latin.

>Then:
>
>Get the url in RR and put it into tXMLData
>put uniEncode(tXMLData,"UTF8") into URL("file:" & tFilePath)

This will convert the data to utf16 which is probably not what you 
want. (Also, it may be better to save XML data as a "binfile"  -- put 
... into url ("binfile:" & tFilepath)

>Result: < ? x m l  v e r s i o n = " 1 . 0 " etc.
>The second byte is obviously not used in the XML, so encoding does what it
>has to do, but messes things up.
>
>The XML does not have the encoding-part in the header, when I add it before
>saving there is no difference.
>
>Do you know if the XML in the database (Oracle) needs to be "formatted" or
>transmitted in a special way by any chance? The strange thing is that
>Explorer works with it fine, but saving the file screws it up...

I'm not sure exactly what you want to do. But if you just want to 
save the data as a utf-8 encoded file, what happens when you download 
with Rev, save to a file (using "binfile"), and then open in Internet 
Explorer?

Cheers
Dave


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jul 24 11:17:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:17:00 2003
Subject: Debugger - sort of working
In-Reply-To: <200307241445.h6OEjnM18370@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
References: <200307241445.h6OEjnM18370@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <3F2004E2.9000502@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/24/03 12:45 PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> Here's the function that is giving me fits, anyone have any ideas? I
> don't see anything that I am doing that would make this
> non-stepoverable.
> 
> function getPath pathType, category, section
 > <snip>

Just guessing, but maybe it's the recursion in the function. The 
step-over bug has been reported before, but I'd suggest adding your 
script to the bug report in Bugzilla. It could help the team track it down.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 24 11:18:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:18:01 2003
Subject: Minor script editor annoyance
In-Reply-To: <200307241600.h6OG0lq42189@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <7A6FFB46-BDF1-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 01:00  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> Wondering if anybody else ever sees this...
>
> Occasionally when I edit a script and click "Apply" I get an script 
> compile error message saying that a comma was expected at some 
> seemingly random point in the script. going back to the script, 
> entering a space (anywhere) and deleting it to reactivate the "Apply" 
> button, and clicking "Apply" causes the script to comile without any 
> problem.
>
> It's a minor thing, and easy to work around, since it just takes a 
> moment to reapply the script, but it's weird.

I've seen things like this occasionally.

Maybe the same as what you are seeing, not sure: I think that somehow 
metacharacters are being entered into the script editor (whether by 
clumsy fingers, or by copy-paste) and the compiler can't deal with 
them. However the script editor cannot display them either. So removing 
some apparent whitespace fixes it. Just a guess!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Jul 24 11:19:01 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:19:01 2003
Subject: How to put the first frame of a movie into an image object?
Message-ID: <8C0287E3-BDF1-11D7-B460-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Ignoring the crash that occurs in OSX when you attempt to print a card 
containing a player object referencing a QT movie, let's say I've 
overcome that (by developing in OS9 or Windows and assuming that the 
compiled app doesn't exhibit the crashing problem).

Now I need to develop a workaround. Here's the rough sequence of events 
I think I'd need to do in order to print the first frame of the movie:

1. select/copy the first frame of the movie. (Don't see a way of doing 
this in Transcript.)

2. paste that frame (the clipboard) into a selected image object. 
(seems to be do-able.)

3. hide the player object (which does prevent the crash when you print 
the card). (no problem.)

Is there a way of scripting the first item within Rev?

Thanks,
Barry



From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Thu Jul 24 11:25:01 2003
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:25:01 2003
Subject: unclear on the concept, or major report printing bugs?
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030724180451.00c689d8@pop.wanadoo.fr>

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 02:04:06 -0700 (PDT), Jan Schenkel 
<janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:


>First of all, I couldn't agree more : a good demo
>would go a long way towards opening it up ; the good
>people at Revolution HQ insist that all the parts are
>there to build wonderful reports ; but the absence of
>a sample stack leaves us all scratching our heads.
[...]

This makes reports, IMHO, pretty much the same as tables - quite possibly 
great **if** you could understand them! I think a key point about these 
additions to the system (Richard G has a term for them but I've forgotten 
what it is - basically features halfway between real new language elements 
and built-in procedures) is that on first encountering them, it's hard to 
work out what the intention was in creating them, and therefore it's hard 
to manage one's expectation of the feature.

For instance, when I read that tables were 'spreadsheet-like', I imagined 
that the user of a RR-developed app would be able to key in various types 
of data into individual cells, and that the script of the app would be able 
to know when this happened and then do spreadsheet-like things, such as 
data checking, evaluation, formula adjustment etc. But it seems it doesn't 
really work that way, and perhaps **was never intended to**. Similarly with 
reports, I imagined functionality which would give complete control over 
page layout (including multiple pages) including stuff like margins, 
headers, footers, page breaks, widowed lines... but again maybe this was 
not really the intention. I guess we now await a collection of examples 
from RunRev which will somehow incorporate the philosophy of these 
additions as well as the actual nuts and bolts. Then we can all adjust our 
expectations. Meanwhile I have to say I'm steering clear of both tables and 
reports.

My two Euro-cents

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  




From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 24 11:28:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:28:01 2003
Subject: Keeping a palette visible when clicking on Finder
In-Reply-To: <BB45CFD1.B2E%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <CF16D359-BDF2-11D7-844F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Malte,

> Hi List,
>
> one more question.
> I have a mainstack that loads several stacks and uses one of it as a
> pallette window. When I click on the finder, the palette Window 
> disappears
> (The main stack remains visible) and returns if I click on the 
> mainstack
> again. Well even though this is the behaviour I expected I need to 
> keep the
> palette visible while the finder is active. I can?t make that stack the
> mainstack of my app, as it needs to save. :-(
>
> Any ideas?

Hmm, maybe adding some "suspendstack" and "resumestack" handlers to
your stacks that will "palette xxx" on resumestack and "toplevel xxx" 
on suspendstack?

Quick thought, not tested... ;-)

That may require to make a custom "palette"-look (decorations set to 
tempty)
so noone will notice your trick, since toggling window types will flash 
a bit... :-)

> Regards,
>
> Malte

Hope that helps.

Ciao ragazzo...


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 24 11:36:03 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:36:03 2003
Subject: Minor script editor annoyance
Message-ID: <200307241629.h6OGTUm50581@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

That's the weird thing - when I enter a space and delete it, it doesn't have to be where the script error claims the error is - if the script editor claims it's expecting this comma in the middle of line 18, I can go to the end of line 1 type space, backspace, hit apply, and it compiles just fine.

I think it's gremlins.

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Alex Rice 
>Maybe the same as what you are seeing, not sure: I
>think that somehow 
>metacharacters are being entered into the script
>editor (whether by 
>clumsy fingers, or by copy-paste) and the compiler
>can't deal with 
>them. However the script editor cannot display them
>either. So removing 
>some apparent whitespace fixes it. Just a guess!
>
>Alex Rice, Software Developer
>Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
>http://ARCplanning.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Thu Jul 24 11:40:00 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:40:00 2003
Subject: Extracting from Excel and Access
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D82@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

Can anyone give me a pointer as to how to perform the following 2
pseudo-procedures

-1-
Open Excel file 'foo.xls'
Copy all the fields of sheet "blah" as text
put it into a var

-2-
Open Microsoft Access file 'foo.mdb'
Copy Table 'blah' as text
put it into a var

I am on Windows 2000 and I am not currently interested in querying the
contents of either.  I just want to extract and ruminate within Revolution.

Thanks in advance

Mark Powell


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 24 11:40:22 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:40:22 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <1662764C-BDEF-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <F28208AA-BDF4-11D7-8783-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 08:54  AM, Alex Rice wrote:

> transcript's replaceText() works on all matches by default, which is 
> why it doesn't need to understand "g" modifier, I am guessing.

I read the archives last night for "regex." What I found was very few 
examples in transcript using them. So I was wondering if anyone has 
code examples that also can be explained so that a newbie can 
understand them? Even the syntax documents are not useful for newbies. 
This would be nice if anyone here is in the process of writing a book 
for Rev users.

Mark



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 24 11:46:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:46:01 2003
Subject: Dial via built in modem
In-Reply-To: <ACE1578B-B18C-11D7-B118-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <5815583C-BDF5-11D7-8879-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

The Apple store mailing mentioned the PhoneValet product:

http://www.phonevalet.com/pv_details.html

It costs $130 and includes a USB-to-POTS gadget to conncect to a phone  
line.  Add $90 for additional lines.

It will run an AppleScript on incoming calls, but I see no way to  
control it (to dial out, for example) with AppleScript or any other  
method.

It will dial out and also announce incoming calls.  All are logged.  A  
big plus is that it will log even when no one is logged in and when  
anyone is logged in.

This looks worth watching, but I don't see Revolution control yet.

Dar

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 24 11:53:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:53:01 2003
Subject: How to put the first frame of a movie into an image object?
In-Reply-To: <8C0287E3-BDF1-11D7-B460-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <45937957-BDF6-11D7-844F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Barry,

> Ignoring the crash that occurs in OSX when you attempt to print a card 
> containing a player object referencing a QT movie, let's say I've 
> overcome that (by developing in OS9 or Windows and assuming that the 
> compiled app doesn't exhibit the crashing problem).
>
> Now I need to develop a workaround. Here's the rough sequence of 
> events I think I'd need to do in order to print the first frame of the 
> movie:
>
> 1. select/copy the first frame of the movie. (Don't see a way of doing 
> this in Transcript.)

I do :-)

on mouseup
   set the currenttime of player 1 to 0
   ## rewind to start if necessary...
   import snapshot from rect globalloc(the topleft of player 1)& "," & 
globalloc(the botright of player 1)
end mouseup

Or pick some of these lines ;-)

on mouseup
   lock screen
   import snapshot from rect globalloc(the topleft of player 1)& "," & 
globalloc(the botright of player 1)
   set the loc of img -1 to the loc of player 1
   ## adjust the snapshot image, its the last one (layer-wise :-)
   hide player 1
   unlock screen
   ## do your print stuff here...
   lock screen
   delete img -1
   show player 1
   unlock screen
end mouseup

> 2. paste that frame (the clipboard) into a selected image object. 
> (seems to be do-able.)

No need to use the clipboard...

> 3. hide the player object (which does prevent the crash when you print 
> the card). (no problem.)

See above...

> Is there a way of scripting the first item within Rev?

Yo, hope that helps...

> Thanks,
> Barry

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 24 11:55:03 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:55:03 2003
Subject: Extracting from Excel and Access
In-Reply-To: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D82@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
Message-ID: <920E342E-BDF6-11D7-8879-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 10:32 AM, Mark Powell wrote:

> -2-
> Open Microsoft Access file 'foo.mdb'
> Copy Table 'blah' as text
> put it into a var

Uh.  It's been a long while...

Maybe you can set up a VBA function in the Access file to run when it 
is opened.  It can check the command switch in the command line for a 
keyword you make up plus 'blah'.  It then exports the table.

In Rev you run a script that uses shell to run access with the cmd 
switch and then 'put URL'.

Maybe Excel is similar.

Dar



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 24 11:55:26 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:55:26 2003
Subject: Extracting from Excel and Access
In-Reply-To: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D82@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
Message-ID: <9B90F34C-BDF6-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 10:32  AM, Mark Powell wrote:

> Can anyone give me a pointer as to how to perform the following 2
> pseudo-procedures
>
> -1-
> Open Excel file 'foo.xls'
> Copy all the fields of sheet "blah" as text
> put it into a var
>
> -2-
> Open Microsoft Access file 'foo.mdb'
> Copy Table 'blah' as text
> put it into a var
>
> I am on Windows 2000 and I am not currently interested in querying the
> contents of either.  I just want to extract and ruminate within 
> Revolution.

There is no way to script Windows apps from within Runrev. So you would 
have to manually perform steps a) and b) of each of your list.

c) "put it into var"- Excel puts tab delimited data onto the pasteboard 
and probably other types. Most well developed apps put several data 
types on the pasteboard. Using RR 2.0's new pasteboard features, you 
can inspect the keys of the pasteboard and pick what data type you want 
to put into your var.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 24 12:02:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:02:01 2003
Subject: Extracting from Excel and Access
In-Reply-To: <920E342E-BDF6-11D7-8879-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <9262A9C5-BDF7-11D7-8879-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 10:47 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

> Maybe you can set up a VBA function in the Access file to run when it 
> is opened.  It can check the command switch in the command line for a 
> keyword you make up plus 'blah'.  It then exports the table.
>
> In Rev you run a script that uses shell to run access with the cmd 
> switch and then 'put URL'.

Or maybe there is a way to use the macro switch.  You might also need 
to set some switches to force access to skip dialogs and maybe other 
windows.

Dar



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 24 12:15:03 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:15:03 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <F28208AA-BDF4-11D7-8783-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6CE78706-BDF9-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 10:36  AM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> I read the archives last night for "regex." What I found was very few 
> examples in transcript using them. So I was wondering if anyone has 
> code examples that also can be explained so that a newbie can 
> understand them? Even the syntax documents are not useful for newbies. 
> This would be nice if anyone here is in the process of writing a book 
> for Rev users.

Mark, start by reading the Transcript Dictionary entries for 
matchText(), matchChunk(), replaceText() and "Regular Expressions 
Syntax". Note that "filter" uses wildcards, but not regular expressions.

Do a web search for Perl regular expressions tutorials, or pick up a 
book: O'Reilly has a book all about Regular Expressions. Then just 
experiment.

Code examples would be a good idea. I will write a few... but I don't 
know when.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 24 12:23:03 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:23:03 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <1059059829.2238.18.camel@www.kmax.net>
Message-ID: <8E96A1A6-BDFA-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 09:17  AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
> And here the "rafraichir" button script :
>
>> on mouseUp
>>   if the shiftkey is down then edit script of me
>>   else
>>     lock screen
>>     set the height of grp "tableau1" to 548
>>     set the width of grp "tableau1" to 700
>>     set the top of grp "tableau1" to 40
>>     set the left of grp "tableau1" to 8
>>   end if
>> end mouseUp
>>
>>
> Comment : the "tableau1" grp is hosting input fields, ordered as a 
> kind of spreadsheets calc.
>
> Thanks for your advice.

Are there any resize handlers or any other handlers that would be run 
as a side effect of setting the dimensions of tableau1? Does tableau1 
contain a lot of fields? Maybe the resize of the group is the 
performance hit?

Sorry no other ideas,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 24 12:27:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:27:01 2003
Subject: Dial via built in modem
In-Reply-To: <5815583C-BDF5-11D7-8879-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <0CC1808E-BDFB-11D7-8879-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 10:39 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

> This looks worth watching, but I don't see Revolution control yet.

I have learned more.

The USB hardware presents serial port views on the popular Revolution  
platforms, so it looks to me that (as limited by Revolution serial)  
some simple control and other info can be obtained with info.  If  
real-time audio is need, then maybe externals can be written.

That bypasses the deamon interface on OS X.  If there is a  
corresponding service on Windows, then that would be bypassed.  There  
might be a way to access these with externals or maybe one could write  
his own.

This looks like a great telephony product op for Revolution developers!

Dar Scott
************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 12:27:50 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:27:50 2003
Subject: Focus
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bb45a7cd945b@[66.81.139.215]>
Message-ID: <20030724171959.64353.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
> When I use a button (with the message "go to card 1
> of stack "foo") 
> to  take me from the main stack to a substack, I
> need to click twice 
> on any substack button--once, it seem, to make the
> stack the focus 
> of the browse tool and a second time to get the
> button to receive the 
> "mouseUp" message.
> 
> Is there some way, other than clicking on the stack
> window, to make 
> the stack alert to the browse tool?
> 
> Jim
> 

Hi Jim,

What happens if you use the 'focus' command ?
  go stack "Foo"
  focus on fld "Bar"

Hope this works for you,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 24 12:29:04 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:29:04 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <6CE78706-BDF9-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <9AA343BE-BDFB-11D7-8783-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 10:08  AM, Alex Rice wrote:

> Do a web search for Perl regular expressions tutorials, or pick up a 
> book: O'Reilly has a book all about Regular Expressions. Then just 
> experiment.
>
> Code examples would be a good idea. I will write a few... but I don't 
> know when.
>
> Alex Rice

Thanks Alex,

Found this:
http://www.perl.com/cs/user/query/q/6?id_topic=63


Mark
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From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Jul 24 12:42:02 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:42:02 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <8E96A1A6-BDFA-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <8E96A1A6-BDFA-11D7-8B0E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <1059068091.1141.8.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 19:16, Alex Rice wrote:
> On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 09:17  AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:


>  Maybe the resize of the group is the 
> performance hit?

It's my idea too... I will test what happen without running the "resize"
script bujt as long as this feature is needed,... i will have to find
the right work-around or, else, fix this development as a MC project
only or test what happen under Omnis Studio.

Thanks for the help, Alex

> 
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jul 24 12:45:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:45:00 2003
Subject: Minor script editor annoyance
In-Reply-To: <200307241629.h6OGTUm50581@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
References: <200307241629.h6OGTUm50581@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <3F20196B.10007@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/24/03 2:29 PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> That's the weird thing - when I enter a space and delete it, it
> doesn't have to be where the script error claims the error is - if
> the script editor claims it's expecting this comma in the middle of
> line 18, I can go to the end of line 1 type space, backspace, hit
> apply, and it compiles just fine.

I haven't seen this in Rev, but I have seen something similar in the 
MetaCard script editor. Almost every time I enter a new script or revise 
an existing script, I get a phantom error when closing the editor -- 
something about not finding the target. Simply hitting the Enter key a 
second time closes the editor and applies the script without complaint 
(in MC, you don't need to edit the script to reactivate the apply 
function.) I have seen this ever since the MC 2.5 engine came out and 
I'm so used to hitting Enter twice now that I can't even remember what 
the exact error message says. I haven't reported it yet, because I need 
to examine my own backscript to see if it is possibly interfering, 
something I haven't had time to do yet.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From katir at hindu.org  Thu Jul 24 13:04:00 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu Jul 24 13:04:00 2003
Subject: Move along path animation/bezier curves
Message-ID: <35494542-BE00-11D7-8948-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

> go stack url
> "http://www.himalayanacademy.com/studyhall/yamas_niyamas/
> Yamas_and_Niyamas.rev"
>
> It demonstrates a lot of relatively simple stuff.

Jim wrote:

Sannyasin,
Dazzling application!
How do you get that dove to fly? It is listed in the application 
overview as just a single image.
Jim

===

Well I don't know how "dazzling" it is.. but anyway.. glad you enjoyed 
it. The dove is a stationary animated GIF. To make it move like that we 
did the following, which is a bit of a work around, because of the 
inability of Rev to do smooth Bezer curves.

a) Make line graphic which will serve as the path you want the object 
to move along. could be any straight line... in this case, to make it 
appear the bird was flying naturally I had to use another stack made by 
Alexjandro (??) called "BezierLine1-1.rev" to generate a smooth path 
that approximated the flight path of the bird.
b) copy that object into the stack
c) turn the vis of that graphic false (hide)
d) then use "move the dove along the points of grc dovePath"
e) and tweaked the starting point to match the corner of the button 
that shows the artwork and then move the two simultaneously to make it 
appear like the bird is bringing the picture into the card... the 
scripts are there in the stack script.

All of the above is trivial to implement... actually the toughest thing 
was getting the bezier curve! unfortunately you can draw a vector 
graphic  in any other application and then import this into Rev.... a 
serious drawback for Rev which i hope will get to close to the top of 
the list of new needed features.


Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org



From mail at richard-hillen.de  Thu Jul 24 13:05:01 2003
From: mail at richard-hillen.de (R. Hillen)
Date: Thu Jul 24 13:05:01 2003
Subject: Background color of stack
Message-ID: <6018EA6C-BE00-11D7-B0E2-000393854988@richard-hillen.de>

Hello,

with RunRev 2.0.1, Mac OSX 10.2.6 :

whatever backgroundcolor I choose in the stack properties, it becomes 
white in the standalone-version.

What shall I do?

And b.t.w: Does someone using a registered version succeed in getting 
version 2.0.2?
How to?

Thanx in advance

Richard



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Thu Jul 24 13:33:01 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Thu Jul 24 13:33:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
References: <200307232313.TAA07936@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F20245D.3060903@pacbell.net>

  From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
[snip]

> So maybe we developers could turn the tables: rather than enslaving
> ourselves to sometimes arbitrary specifications, we take it upon ourselves
> to make one recommendation for a Universal GUI.
> 
> 
> One could rightly argue that a Universal GUI could lead to a "lowest common
> denominator" GUI.  We'd have to be watchful of that, but at the same time
> the sum of common elements is not bad, and in its simplicity there may be
> great value.  We could still keep unique appearances, since each OS provides
> a heathly set of hooks for rendering controls.  But there's no reason
> layouts, behavior, and nomenclature couldn't be made consistent, with the
> option supported by the strongest research setting the standard others would
> be asked to comply with.
> 
> I realize it would be an uphill battle and likely without victory.  Worth
> pursuing, or better off left as a thought experiment? ;)
> 


A very worthy goal, Richard, but it sounds like a full-time job for a 
team... Are you willing to head it up? :-/

Apple's not-so-recent turn to the "eye-candy" design left me cold. It 
may be neato in the gaming world, but IMHO, it gets in the way. Not very 
classy. (It reminds me of a 13-year-old girl trying ALL her mother's 
makeup at the same time.)

For starters, we could use the HIG that really worked: The original 
Apple HIG.

I don't mean going back to black and white controls and windows. 3-D 
buttons are OK as long as they don't swell to three-times their original 
size and pulsate, all the while screaming "CLICK ME! CLICK ME".

For a really good example of terrible user interface design check out 
the free software that came with an Epson color printer. It's called 
EPSON Smart Panel. You must be reeeaaally smart to use it. It's even 
worse than the infamous DeBabelizer. If it's typical PC-ware, then I 
feel it's time to bring the PC world into the "kinder, gentler world" of 
the classic Mac... ;-0



Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From bornstein at designeq.com  Thu Jul 24 13:41:06 2003
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Thu Jul 24 13:41:06 2003
Subject: Revolution and Page setup
Message-ID: <200307241834.h6OIYHs4019122@ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com>

>I'm developing a method of producing a report from a Revolution stack. I've
>made a custom report stack that I'm happy with but I need to ensure that
>the user's printer is set to landscape format when the report prints. Can I
>script such a change into the print report script? If not, can I find out
>whether or not the user's printer is set to landscape format and, if it's
>in portrait format, put up a dialog box asking the user to set it to
>lanscape?


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 24 13:54:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 24 13:54:00 2003
Subject: How to put the first frame of a movie into an image object?
In-Reply-To: <8C0287E3-BDF1-11D7-B460-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <310C9681-BE07-11D7-8879-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 10:11 AM, Barry Levine wrote:

> 1. select/copy the first frame of the movie. (Don't see a way of doing 
> this in Transcript.)
>
> 2. paste that frame (the clipboard) into a selected image object. 
> (seems to be do-able.)

Snapshot?

Dar Scott



From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Jul 24 14:06:01 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu Jul 24 14:06:01 2003
Subject: print player crash workaround
In-Reply-To: <200307241557.LAA18885@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <DE46AAFD-BE08-11D7-8185-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Klaus,

Thank you. I'll give it a try and report back.

Barry

On Thursday, Jul 24, 2003, at 09:57 America/Denver, Klaus wrote:

> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:45:45 +0200
> Subject: Re: How to put the first frame of a movie into an image 
> object?
> From: Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de>
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
> Hi Barry,
>
>> Ignoring the crash that occurs in OSX when you attempt to print a card
>> containing a player object referencing a QT movie, let's say I've
>> overcome that (by developing in OS9 or Windows and assuming that the
>> compiled app doesn't exhibit the crashing problem).
>>
>> Now I need to develop a workaround. Here's the rough sequence of
>> events I think I'd need to do in order to print the first frame of the
>> movie:
>>
>> 1. select/copy the first frame of the movie. (Don't see a way of doing
>> this in Transcript.)
>
> I do :-)
>
> on mouseup
>    set the currenttime of player 1 to 0
>    ## rewind to start if necessary...
>    import snapshot from rect globalloc(the topleft of player 1)& "," &
> globalloc(the botright of player 1)
> end mouseup
>
> Or pick some of these lines ;-)
>
> on mouseup
>    lock screen
>    import snapshot from rect globalloc(the topleft of player 1)& "," &
> globalloc(the botright of player 1)
>    set the loc of img -1 to the loc of player 1
>    ## adjust the snapshot image, its the last one (layer-wise :-)
>    hide player 1
>    unlock screen
>    ## do your print stuff here...
>    lock screen
>    delete img -1
>    show player 1
>    unlock screen
> end mouseup
>
>> 2. paste that frame (the clipboard) into a selected image object.
>> (seems to be do-able.)
>
> No need to use the clipboard...
>
>> 3. hide the player object (which does prevent the crash when you print
>> the card). (no problem.)
>
> See above...
>
>> Is there a way of scripting the first item within Rev?
>
> Yo, hope that helps...
>
>> Thanks,
>> Barry
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
--------------------------------------------------------
Barry Jay Levine
"The Mac Guy"

Macintosh Troubleshooting, System Engineering, Training,
AppleShare/OSX Server Setup, System Upgrades and Enhancements,
Custom Programming for Mac/Windows/Linux/Solaris

On-Site service for K20, Business, Consumer

Phone/VoiceMail: 915-581-1105
             Fax: 915-581-8167
           eMail: themacguy at macosx.com
--------------------------------------------------------



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Jul 24 14:08:32 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Thu Jul 24 14:08:32 2003
Subject: Background color of stack
In-Reply-To: <6018EA6C-BE00-11D7-B0E2-000393854988@richard-hillen.de>
Message-ID: <F86D24D3-BE08-11D7-8158-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le jeudi, 24 juil 2003, ? 19:58 Europe/Brussels, R. Hillen a ?crit :

> Hello,
>
> with RunRev 2.0.1, Mac OSX 10.2.6 :
>
> whatever backgroundcolor I choose in the stack properties, it becomes 
> white in the standalone-version.
>
> What shall I do?
>
> And b.t.w: Does someone using a registered version succeed in getting 
> version 2.0.2?
> How to?
>
> Thanx in advance
>
> Richard
>
>

Do you add the "image library" in the "inclusion" tab when you build 
your app ?

for the typical Mac  OS X bg, you choose the image library plug in, 
last row, third column.

Vers. 2.0.2 ??? many speak about but never seen....

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Jul 24 14:25:00 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu Jul 24 14:25:00 2003
Subject: Klaus - You da man!
In-Reply-To: <200307241557.LAA18885@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9A18EC0E-BE0B-11D7-8185-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Klaus,

I put "import snapshot from rect globalloc(the topleft of player 1)& 
"," & globalloc(the botright of player 1)" into the message box, hit 
the Enter key, and it worked! The "set the currentTime...etc." also 
worked. What a relief!

The line "set the loc of img -1 to the loc of player 1" is puzzling, 
though. It does work (from the message box) if I substitute "1" for 
"-1".

Pardon me while I dance in the streets...

Thanks again,
Barry

On Thursday, Jul 24, 2003, at 09:57 America/Denver, Klaus wrote:

> on mouseup
>    lock screen
>    import snapshot from rect globalloc(the topleft of player 1)& "," &
> globalloc(the botright of player 1)
>    set the loc of img -1 to the loc of player 1
>    ## adjust the snapshot image, its the last one (layer-wise :-)
>    hide player 1
>    unlock screen
>    ## do your print stuff here...
>    lock screen
>    delete img -1
>    show player 1
>    import snapshot from rect globalloc(the topleft of player 1)& "," & 
> globalloc(the botright of player 1) unlock screen
> end mouseup
--------------------------------------------------------



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 24 14:33:03 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 24 14:33:03 2003
Subject: Klaus - You da man!
In-Reply-To: <9A18EC0E-BE0B-11D7-8185-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <BA5872B1-BE0C-11D7-844F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Barry,

> Klaus,
>
> I put "import snapshot from rect globalloc(the topleft of player 1)& 
> "," & globalloc(the botright of player 1)"
> into the message box, hit the Enter key, and it worked! The "set the 
> currentTime...etc." also worked. What a relief!

Glad to hear this :-)

> The line "set the loc of img -1 to the loc of player 1" is puzzling, 
> though. It does work (from the message box) if I substitute "1" for 
> "-1".

Yeah, discoverd this today.
Looks like this does not work with all objects...

Or maybe only with (text-)chunks?

Anyway, "last image" will also do the trick, especially if you already 
have some images on the card...

> Pardon me while I dance in the streets...

Wait, wait, i'll get my guitar... ;-)

> Thanks again,

You're welcome.

> Barry

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Jul 24 15:18:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu Jul 24 15:18:00 2003
Subject: Move along path animation/bezier curves
In-Reply-To: <200307241807.OAA26260@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307241807.OAA26260@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb45eb45e0aa@[66.81.139.215]>

>
>Message: 9
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:56:53 -1000
>Subject: Move along path animation/bezier curves
>From: Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>
>>  go stack url
>>  "http://www.himalayanacademy.com/studyhall/yamas_niyamas/
>>  Yamas_and_Niyamas.rev"
>>
>>  It demonstrates a lot of relatively simple stuff.
>
>Jim wrote:
>
>Sannyasin,
>Dazzling application!
>How do you get that dove to fly? It is listed in the application
>overview as just a single image.
>Jim
>
>===
>
>Well I don't know how "dazzling" it is.. but anyway.. glad you enjoyed
>it. The dove is a stationary animated GIF. To make it move like that we
>did the following, which is a bit of a work around, because of the
>inability of Rev to do smooth Bezer curves.
>
>a) Make line graphic which will serve as the path you want the object
>to move along. could be any straight line... in this case, to make it
>appear the bird was flying naturally I had to use another stack made by
>Alexjandro (??) called "BezierLine1-1.rev" to generate a smooth path
>that approximated the flight path of the bird.
>b) copy that object into the stack
>c) turn the vis of that graphic false (hide)
>d) then use "move the dove along the points of grc dovePath"
>e) and tweaked the starting point to match the corner of the button
>that shows the artwork and then move the two simultaneously to make it
>appear like the bird is bringing the picture into the card... the
>scripts are there in the stack script.
>
>All of the above is trivial to implement... actually the toughest thing
>was getting the bezier curve! unfortunately you can draw a vector
>graphic  in any other application and then import this into Rev.... a
>serious drawback for Rev which i hope will get to close to the top of
>the list of new needed features.
>
>
>Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
>Himalayan Academy Publications
>at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
>katir at hindu.org
>
>www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
>www.HinduismToday.com
>www.Gurudeva.org
>www.Hindu.org


Sannyasin,

Maybe I  should be worried out moving the image along the path, but 
the issue  which motivated my question was getting the wings of the 
dove to flap when there is (apparently) just one image of the dove in 
the application?

I have seen much discussion on the list about animated gif's. But I 
had to see it in action with your wing-flapping dove to appreciate 
the effect and to arouse my curiosity.

So, again, my question is: How does the dove flap its wings when 
there is just one image? I should have thought that one would 
successively hide and show alternating images along the path to 
achieve the effect. Perhaps you can just refer me to a place in the 
docs?

Jim


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Thu Jul 24 15:47:01 2003
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ludovic_Th=E9bault?=)
Date: Thu Jul 24 15:47:01 2003
Subject: Telnet and eMail
Message-ID: <20030724223926356494.GyazMail.ludovic.thebault@laposte.net>

Hello,

for fun and for learn, i want to wrote a little app to connect to my 
pop server by telnet, to delete spam messages.

I'm not able to get messages from the host :

on mouseup
  open socket to pop.myhost:110 
  read from socket pop.myhost:110 with message "itswork" -- ok, it's 
work
  write "USER"&&mylogin & cr to socket pop.myhost:110 with message 
"itsdone"
write "PASS"&&myPass & cr to socket pop.myhost:110 with message 
"itsdone"
write "LIST" & cr to socket pop.myhost:110 with message "itsdone"
end mouseup

on itswork socketID, theMsg
put theMsg into fld "Messages"
end itswork

on itsdone socketID
put cr & socketID after fld "Messages"
end itsdone

- how to display messages (like "+OK password required") send by the 
host in a field ? The callbackmessage display only the socket host.

- Why i need to click several time to the button to have the list of 
emails ? And why this doesn't work in debug mode ?


Thanks.



From paeleman at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 24 15:53:00 2003
From: paeleman at hotmail.com (Joeri Paeleman)
Date: Thu Jul 24 15:53:00 2003
Subject: Extracting From Excel and Access
Message-ID: <Law11-F103lyrgpf6dK00006f53@hotmail.com>

If you're not in a hurry, I'm writing a little external which will allow you 
to do just that.

The external will make it possible to execute OLE commands directly from 
Revolution. This means than a lot of what's possible in Visual Basic (at 
least regarding Interapplication Communication) will be available in 
Transcript, including running VBscripts in a way similar to AppleScript.

Actually I've been using the external myself for some time now, but I still 
need to find some spare time somewhere to prep it for distribution (other 
people usually manage to find bugs in my code that I would never encounter 
myself).


Joeri Paeleman

_________________________________________________________________




From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Jul 24 16:20:02 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Jul 24 16:20:02 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <3F20245D.3060903@pacbell.net>
References: <200307232313.TAA07936@www.runrev.com>
 <3F20245D.3060903@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <a05100301bb45f916ddcd@[216.229.107.166]>

>>So maybe we developers could turn the tables: rather than enslaving
>>ourselves to sometimes arbitrary specifications, we take it upon ourselves
>>to make one recommendation for a Universal GUI.

[snip]

>A very worthy goal, Richard, but it sounds like a full-time job for a team...

In absence of a team to tackle that, might I suggest a more modest 
goal for the Revolution community: a Universal Transcript syntax.

By that I mean the addition of generic front ends to commands like 
"answer file" so that individual developers would rarely have need to 
include 'switch (the platform)' or 'if the platform is "MacOS" and 
char 1 of the systemVersion < 7' statements.

I see hiding platform differences from Transcript scripters as a 
worthy goal, and a Universal API more easily achievable than a 
Universal GUI.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From jiml at netrin.com  Thu Jul 24 16:35:01 2003
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Thu Jul 24 16:35:01 2003
Subject: tokens and paths
In-Reply-To: <200307241807.OAA26260@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBICMMKLOIPMPOLALAKEPCFEAA.jiml@netrin.com>

Rev's documentation offers this tip:

To place the current stack's file path in a variable, enter the following in
a handler or the message box:
  set the itemDelimiter to "/"
  get item 1 to -2 of the effective filename of this stack


Won't this one-liner do as well?
    put token 1 to -2 of the effective filename of this stack
Or are there cases where it will fail?

Jim Lambert
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/03



From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Jul 24 16:51:15 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu Jul 24 16:51:15 2003
Subject: Clicking on linked text sends a mouseLeave message?
In-Reply-To: <200307241807.OAA26260@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307241807.OAA26260@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bb460112ffcd@[69.19.170.81]>

The  script below allows students to click on various words 
("objective lens", "ocular lens" etc.) in a "Help field" and an arrow 
is drawn from the linked word or phrase to the object in question.

But I want the arrow to go away (set the points of graphic "arrow" to 
empty) when the the mouse leaves the  field.

  But my handler "mouseLeave" beeps every time I click on a link, the 
arrow flashes but immediately disappears.

Why should clicking on a link send a mouseLeave message?

If I omit the mouseLeave handler, the arrow appears and stays as it 
should. (But of course it doesn't go away when the mouse leaves the 
field.)



on mouseUP
   if there is no graphic "arrow" then
     set the style of the templateGraphic to "line"
     set the endarrow of the templateGraphic to true
     set the lineSize of the templateGraphic  to  2
     create graphic "arrow"
   end if

   put the mouseLoc into line 1 of tGraphicPoints --Set the start 
point of the arrow
   put the clicktext into what

   switch what
   case "objective lens"
     put 869,217 into line 2 of tGraphicPoints -- Set the end point
     break
   case "ocular lens"
     put 545,263 into line 2 of tGraphicPoints
     break
   case "focal point"
     put 435,327 into line 2 of tGraphicPoints
     break
   default
     put "" into line 2 of tGraphicPoints
     break
   end switch
   set the points of graphic "arrow" to tGraphicPoints --Draw the arrow
   send "choose the browse tool" to me in 1 tick
end mouseUp

on mouseLeave
   beep
   set the points of graphic "arrow" to ""
end mouseLeave


From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Thu Jul 24 16:59:01 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Thu Jul 24 16:59:01 2003
Subject: Extracting From Excel and Access
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D88@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

I'd be very interested in looking at it.  My problem is that there is
mission-critical data in our organizaiton that is residing in several
locations (John's Excel file, Mary's Access db, Fred's web page, etc.), all
owned and maintained by separate individuals with varying degrees of
housekeeping acumen.  I need to point to these sources and perform some
critical filtering, stitching, and formatting, with the final product being
a sortable HTML report (for users) and an error/issue report (for
management).

So, I don't have control over what file types are being used.  Currently, I
have to go into manually and save these things as tab-delimited text, and
then first apply a very robust housekeeping check before commencing on
anything.  So, yeah, it would be very handy to be able to address the data
directly without this manual intervention.

Let me know what your timeline is and thanks for the info!

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Joeri Paeleman [mailto:paeleman at hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 1:45 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Extracting From Excel and Access



If you're not in a hurry, I'm writing a little external which will allow you

to do just that.

The external will make it possible to execute OLE commands directly from 
Revolution. This means than a lot of what's possible in Visual Basic (at 
least regarding Interapplication Communication) will be available in 
Transcript, including running VBscripts in a way similar to AppleScript.

Actually I've been using the external myself for some time now, but I still 
need to find some spare time somewhere to prep it for distribution (other 
people usually manage to find bugs in my code that I would never encounter 
myself).


Joeri Paeleman

_________________________________________________________________


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 24 17:07:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 24 17:07:01 2003
Subject: Telnet and eMail
In-Reply-To: <20030724223926356494.GyazMail.ludovic.thebault@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <2EC31F8A-BE22-11D7-8879-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 02:39 PM, Ludovic Th?bault wrote:

> on mouseup
>   open socket to pop.myhost:110
>   read from socket pop.myhost:110 with message "itswork" -- ok, it's
> work
>   write "USER"&&mylogin & cr to socket pop.myhost:110 with message
> "itsdone"
> write "PASS"&&myPass & cr to socket pop.myhost:110 with message
> "itsdone"
> write "LIST" & cr to socket pop.myhost:110 with message "itsdone"
> end mouseup
>
> on itswork socketID, theMsg
> put theMsg into fld "Messages"
> end itswork
>
> on itsdone socketID
> put cr & socketID after fld "Messages"
> end itsdone
>
> - how to display messages (like "+OK password required") send by the
> host in a field ? The callbackmessage display only the socket host.

First...
You are mixing two styles, using messages (non-blocking) and without  
(blocking).

Try it first without.

A mouseUp handler not using messages may take a short but noticeable  
time and other things won't work during the transaction, so I'd set the  
cursor to a watch while experimenting.

In reading without messages, read until the last character of your  
end-of-line characters.  The result will be in 'it'.  Remove the  
end-of-line character or characters or replace them with readable names  
for debugging.

Second...
Take care with your end of line.  I don't have POP3 in front of me, but  
I expect it might be ASCII CRLF.  The many names for the Revolution  
new-line or end-of-line all are coded numToChar(10).  Your end-of-line  
for POP3 is probably not and may be two characters.  Handle this  
carefully in both sending and receiving.  If you need more help here,  
just ask.

Third...
Check for success with result().  While learning how Revolution does  
tcp/ip, you might want to print it out after each operation.  Print out  
the sysError(), too; it can be handy when reporting results to the list  
when asking questions.

After you get that going, then move on to using messages.  Ask about  
that, if you need.  I use sockets messages with send to handle read and  
write.

I hope this gets you going in the right direction.

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****


From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 24 17:33:03 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 24 17:33:03 2003
Subject: tokens and paths
Message-ID: <200307242225.h6OMPYb66068@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

I believe that some of the tokens are legal to use in filenames on some operating systems - for example "-" (dash) is legal in a Windows filename, and could screw yuo up.

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: "Jim Lambert" <jiml at netrin.com>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:23:02
>
>Rev's documentation offers this tip:
>
>To place the current stack's file path in a
>variable, enter the following in
>a handler or the message box:
>  set the itemDelimiter to "/"
>  get item 1 to -2 of the effective filename of
>this stack
>
>
>Won't this one-liner do as well?
>    put token 1 to -2 of the effective filename of
>this stack
>Or are there cases where it will fail?
>
>Jim Lambert
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system
>(http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release
>Date: 7/18/03
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 24 18:04:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 24 18:04:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <9AA343BE-BDFB-11D7-8783-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <23A7ABD0-BE2A-11D7-B358-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 11:23  AM, Mark Brownell wrote:
>
> Found this:
> http://www.perl.com/cs/user/query/q/6?id_topic=63
>

Mark, I just remembered seeing this on the RR User Contributions Page:

Regex Builder by Frederic Rinaldi

A plugin to help test and build regular expression syntax to use with 
filter, matchText, matchChunk, lineOffset, wordOffset and itemOffset 
instructions.

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/frederic.rinaldi/

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jul 24 18:15:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu Jul 24 18:15:00 2003
Subject: Clicking on linked text sends a mouseLeave message?
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bb460112ffcd@[69.19.170.81]>
References: <200307241807.OAA26260@www.runrev.com> <a05210602bb460112ffcd@[69.19.170.81]>
Message-ID: <3F2066D5.6070807@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/24/03 4:44 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:
> The  script below allows students to click on various words ("objective 
> lens", "ocular lens" etc.) in a "Help field" and an arrow is drawn from 
> the linked word or phrase to the object in question.
> 
> But I want the arrow to go away (set the points of graphic "arrow" to 
> empty) when the the mouse leaves the  field.
> 
>  But my handler "mouseLeave" beeps every time I click on a link, the 
> arrow flashes but immediately disappears.
> 
> Why should clicking on a link send a mouseLeave message?

When the arrow graphic appears under the mouse, the field gets a 
"mouseleave" and the graphic gets a "mouseEnter" message. In other 
words, the focus shifts. (This is a new feature of the engine; it didn't 
used to work that way.)

You could work around it by not using the mouseloc as the start of the 
arrow. Add a few pixels to the horizontal position, for example. 
(Although if the user moves the mouse over the graphic, the graphic will 
disappear again.)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 24 18:29:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 24 18:29:00 2003
Subject: Anybody Home?
In-Reply-To: <6DF8620E-BD62-11D7-AED2-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <B0818880-BE2D-11D7-B358-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 05:07  PM, Alex Rice wrote:
> And yes we are home :-)
>
> List-
> revolution.com is listed as status: REGISTRAR-LOCK. Is it going to  
> available for snatching?
>
> http://www.enom.com/domains/ 
> whois.asp?DomainName=revolution.com&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

Just to follow up on this-

1) http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/contacts.html lists  
"info at revolution.com" as a valid email.

2) REGISTRAR-LOCK means only that the WHOIS record is made private and  
"secure", not that it's a deadbeat or orphaned domain name.


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 24 18:55:03 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 24 18:55:03 2003
Subject: tokens and paths
In-Reply-To: <NEBBICMMKLOIPMPOLALAKEPCFEAA.jiml@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <56F0EA12-BE31-11D7-8879-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 03:23 PM, Jim Lambert wrote:

> Won't this one-liner do as well?
>     put token 1 to -2 of the effective filename of this stack
> Or are there cases where it will fail?

file name with space or comma or hyphen or ...

Dar



From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Thu Jul 24 19:13:03 2003
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu Jul 24 19:13:03 2003
Subject: Keeping a palette visible when clicking on Finder
In-Reply-To: <CF16D359-BDF2-11D7-844F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <C53B4F94-BE33-11D7-A831-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>


>> Hi List,
>>
>> one more question.
>> I have a mainstack that loads several stacks and uses one of it as a
>> pallette window. When I click on the finder, the palette Window 
>> disappears
>> (The main stack remains visible) and returns if I click on the 
>> mainstack
>> again. Well even though this is the behaviour I expected I need to 
>> keep the
>> palette visible while the finder is active. I can?t make that stack 
>> the
>> mainstack of my app, as it needs to save. :-(
>>
>> Any ideas?

Set hidePalettes to false.

This works for OS 7-9 and Windows, but does not work for OS X.  Guess I 
need to bugzilla it.

Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Jul 24 19:31:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Jul 24 19:31:00 2003
Subject: Keeping a palette visible when clicking on Finder
In-Reply-To: <1030725021746.3f2006aa.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.91897@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <0C3CA23D-BE36-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Perhaps you could make the stack modeless instead?

Sarah

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 02:17  am, Malte Brill wrote:

> Hi List,
>
> one more question.
> I have a mainstack that loads several stacks and uses one of it as a
> pallette window. When I click on the finder, the palette Window 
> disappears
> (The main stack remains visible) and returns if I click on the 
> mainstack
> again. Well even though this is the behaviour I expected I need to 
> keep the
> palette visible while the finder is active. I can?t make that stack the
> mainstack of my app, as it needs to save. :-(
>
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Regards,
>
> Malte
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Jul 24 19:31:28 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Jul 24 19:31:28 2003
Subject: Focus
In-Reply-To: <1030725012407.3f1ffa17.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.91815@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <2B7E0220-BE36-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Jim,

When I do this, the substack DOES get the focus. Is there something 
else interfering - possibly an openStack handler in either the main 
stack or the substack?

Cheers,
Sarah

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 01:24  am, Jim Hurley wrote:

> When I use a button (with the message "go to card 1 of stack "foo") to 
>  take me from the main stack to a substack, I need to click twice on 
> any substack button--once, it seem, to make the stack the focus of the 
> browse tool and a second time to get the button to receive the 
> "mouseUp" message.
>
> Is there some way, other than clicking on the stack window, to make 
> the stack alert to the browse tool?
>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Jul 24 19:34:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Jul 24 19:34:01 2003
Subject: Database access in Rev Studio
In-Reply-To: <1030725004257.3f1ff071.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.91785@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <B9983152-BE36-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

"MySQL tests" is one of my stacks - I guess I forget to claim any 
credit for that one :-)
Since those of us with current licenses are apparently not allowed to 
get 2.0.2 :-(
I can't give you any advice. I have only ever tried test databases with 
at most about 10 records. Were you able to get more records with 
earlier versions or is this your first one?

I'll have a look and see if it is a Rev problem or a problem with my 
stack.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 12:42  am, Jo?l Guillod wrote:

> Has someone experienced database limitations under the Studio license 
> RR
> 2.0.2?
>
> I found impossible to SELECT more that 22 records using the MySQL and 
> this
> behaves like the limitation I had with the previous non professional
> licenses. I didn't expect that according to the comparison table of 
> the new
> licenses.
>
> Do I do/catch something wrong? I run under MacOSX and use the stack 
> called
> "MySQL tests" (I could have credit the author here but do not find the 
> name
> in the stack).
>
> Thanks for effective help!
>
> Joel G




From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 24 19:42:03 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu Jul 24 19:42:03 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <23A7ABD0-BE2A-11D7-B358-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <45C91727-BE38-11D7-8D56-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 03:57  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> Mark, I just remembered seeing this on the RR User Contributions Page:
>
> Regex Builder by Frederic Rinaldi
>
> A plugin to help test and build regular expression syntax to use with 
> filter, matchText, matchChunk, lineOffset, wordOffset and itemOffset 
> instructions.
>
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/frederic.rinaldi/
>
> Alex Rice,

Thanks for that link.

Having fun with matchText &  matchChunk  regex repeat loops. Is there a 
way to create a matchChunk regex that picks up all instances within a 
document that may contain several of the same items? In the example I 
can get it to return the char position for the first one that it finds. 
I was just wondering if there was a regex way to return a delimited 
list of all similar  items found.

Mark
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From curry at pair.com  Thu Jul 24 20:04:01 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Thu Jul 24 20:04:01 2003
Subject: Background takeover
In-Reply-To: <200307242216.SAA04031@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307242216.SAA04031@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb4629a9212f@[68.86.46.40]>

I'm on Mac OX. If I have the backdrop on (black although shouldn't 
matter) and the screen saver comes on, then when I get out of the 
screensaver, sometimes I don't see the stack I'm working on--the 
backdrop has taken over and covered the screen. I have to select the 
stack from the Windows menu.

It can also happen when switching apps.

I was trying some things with resume and suspend to see if that would 
workaround, but didn't have much luck.

However, then I tried it with engine only, not the IDE, and there was 
no problem.

But I'm curious to know if other people get the same result. If you 
want to try:

1. Open Rev, new mainstack, set backdrop to black

2. Move the cursor to your screen saver hot spot and back 5 or 10 
times. For me, this will result in correct behavior a few times and 
the stack is hidden a few times--no evident pattern.

3. If you like, try switching to another app and back to Rev 
repeatedly--same results for me.

4. Choose the menu option to hide the Rev IDE, and then try it. 
Everything worked OK for me.

Thanks,

Curry


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Jul 24 20:42:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Jul 24 20:42:00 2003
Subject: Background takeover
In-Reply-To: <1030725110130.3f20816a.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.92821@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <F0884EF7-BE3F-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Yes, I've had this happen after hiding Rev and then clicking on it in 
the Dock to bring it back to the front.
Cheers,
Sarah

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 11:01  am, curry wrote:

> I'm on Mac OX. If I have the backdrop on (black although shouldn't 
> matter) and the screen saver comes on, then when I get out of the 
> screensaver, sometimes I don't see the stack I'm working on--the 
> backdrop has taken over and covered the screen. I have to select the 
> stack from the Windows menu.
>
> It can also happen when switching apps.
>
> I was trying some things with resume and suspend to see if that would 
> workaround, but didn't have much luck.
>
> However, then I tried it with engine only, not the IDE, and there was 
> no problem.
>
> But I'm curious to know if other people get the same result. If you 
> want to try:
>
> 1. Open Rev, new mainstack, set backdrop to black
>
> 2. Move the cursor to your screen saver hot spot and back 5 or 10 
> times. For me, this will result in correct behavior a few times and 
> the stack is hidden a few times--no evident pattern.
>
> 3. If you like, try switching to another app and back to Rev 
> repeatedly--same results for me.
>
> 4. Choose the menu option to hide the Rev IDE, and then try it. 
> Everything worked OK for me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Curry
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Jul 24 20:42:33 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu Jul 24 20:42:33 2003
Subject: Clicking on linked text sends a mouseLeave message?
In-Reply-To: <200307242216.SAA04031@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307242216.SAA04031@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb463877a358@[69.19.170.81]>

>
>Message: 14
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:08:05 -0500
>From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
>Organization: HyperActive Software
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Subject: Re: Clicking on linked text sends a mouseLeave message?
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>On 7/24/03 4:44 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:
>>  The  script below allows students to click on various words ("objective
>>  lens", "ocular lens" etc.) in a "Help field" and an arrow is drawn from
>>  the linked word or phrase to the object in question.
>>
>>  But I want the arrow to go away (set the points of graphic "arrow" to
>>  empty) when the the mouse leaves the  field.
>>
>>   But my handler "mouseLeave" beeps every time I click on a link, the
>>  arrow flashes but immediately disappears.
>>
>>  Why should clicking on a link send a mouseLeave message?
>
>When the arrow graphic appears under the mouse, the field gets a
>"mouseleave" and the graphic gets a "mouseEnter" message. In other
>words, the focus shifts. (This is a new feature of the engine; it didn't
>used to work that way.)
>
>You could work around it by not using the mouseloc as the start of the
>arrow. Add a few pixels to the horizontal position, for example.
>(Although if the user moves the mouse over the graphic, the graphic will
>disappear again.)
>
>--
>Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>


Jacqueline,

I never would have guess this resolution. Knowing what the problem is 
I can work around it. The following is clumsy but it works:

on mouseLeave
   put 2 into tMargin
   put the mouseV into tY
   put the mouseH  into tX
   if tX - tMargin < item 1 of the rect of me or tY - tMargin < item 2 
of the rect of me then
     set the points of graphic "arrow" to ""
   end if
   if tX + tMargin > item 3 of the rect of me or tY + tMargin > item 4 
of the rect of me then
     set the points of graphic "arrow" to ""
   end if
end mouseLeave

I can't just use "if the mouseLoc is not within the rect of me" since 
it is within the rect just before it leaves.

Thanks much,

Jim


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Jul 24 20:57:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Jul 24 20:57:01 2003
Subject: Database access in Rev Studio
In-Reply-To: <1030725103014.3f207a16.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.92733@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <FD8D7020-BE41-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I've checked my stack now Joel, with a larger database and I have no 
trouble using SELECT to retrieve more than 22 records. I am running 
2.0.1 still (with Mac OS X 10.2.6) so I wonder is it a problem with the 
new version of Rev or a problem with the MySQL server you are using.

I suggest you download a copy of Rev 2.0.1 and test using that to 
identify which step is causing the problem.

Cheers,
Sarah

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 10:30  am, Sarah wrote:

> "MySQL tests" is one of my stacks - I guess I forget to claim any 
> credit for that one :-)
> Since those of us with current licenses are apparently not allowed to 
> get 2.0.2 :-(
> I can't give you any advice. I have only ever tried test databases 
> with at most about 10 records. Were you able to get more records with 
> earlier versions or is this your first one?
>
> I'll have a look and see if it is a Rev problem or a problem with my 
> stack.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/
>
> On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 12:42  am, Jo?l Guillod wrote:
>
>> Has someone experienced database limitations under the Studio license 
>> RR
>> 2.0.2?
>>
>> I found impossible to SELECT more that 22 records using the MySQL and 
>> this
>> behaves like the limitation I had with the previous non professional
>> licenses. I didn't expect that according to the comparison table of 
>> the new
>> licenses.
>>
>> Do I do/catch something wrong? I run under MacOSX and use the stack 
>> called
>> "MySQL tests" (I could have credit the author here but do not find 
>> the name
>> in the stack).
>>
>> Thanks for effective help!
>>
>> Joel G
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Jul 24 21:54:00 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu Jul 24 21:54:00 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <200307241358.JAA05795@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB45E985.1EE6%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello,

> From: "Edwin Gore" <edgore at shinra.com>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:07:51 -0700
> Subject: RE: Re: Rev and substacks
> 
> You are correct though. When you open a stack with substacks all of them are
> loaded completely into memory.
----------
How about standalones? When you create standalones, the substacks may become
separate files, yes? In that case, they must come from the drive.

Are we sure what's actually happening here? Opening from the Rev IDE to a
stack with substacks (not a standalone), the substacks open immediately
here, and I have a slow machine. But it's not OSX.

Rev 2.0.1, Mac G4 Tower, 350 mHz, 500mb RAM, OS 9.2.1.

Ken N.



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 24 22:30:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 24 22:30:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <45C91727-BE38-11D7-8D56-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <56B20676-BE4F-11D7-B358-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 06:38  PM, Mark Brownell wrote:
>
> Thanks for that link.
>
> Having fun with matchText &  matchChunk  regex repeat loops. Is there 
> a way to create a matchChunk regex that picks up all instances within 
> a document that may contain several of the same items? In the example 
> I can get it to return the char position for the first one that it 
> finds. I was just wondering if there was a regex way to return a 
> delimited list of all similar  items found.

I'm not sure. I'm trying to connect my knowledge of Perl regular 
expressions onto the functions that Revolution exposes.

BTW I guessed right about the PCRE library. It's what Revolution uses. 
Here is the documentation for PCRE: http://www.pcre.org/pcre.txt. 
Perhaps we could use the revolution regex engine better with this 
knowledge.

# cd /Applications/Revolution 2.0.1/Revolution.app/Contents/MacOS
# strings < Revolution | grep -i pcre
this version of PCRE is not compiled with PCRE_UTF8 support
_pcre_compile
_pcre_exec
_pcre_free
_pcre_fullinfo
_pcre_info
_pcre_malloc
_pcre_version
_FSpCreate
_FSpCreateResFile
__Z21pcre_posix_error_codePKc
_pcre_default_tables


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From katir at hindu.org  Thu Jul 24 22:44:01 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu Jul 24 22:44:01 2003
Subject: Move along path animation/bezier curves
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bb45eb45e0aa@[66.81.139.215]>
Message-ID: <4A199C52-BE51-11D7-A767-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Jim,

Time for you to crack open any number of tools (ImageReady, GifBuilder, 
etc.) other than Rev to learn about animated GIFs. These are images 
that have a series of embedded frames in the same file. I am not 
expert, but we understand that included in the file data is the length 
of time that any given frame is to be displayed, and if they should be 
displayed repeatedly or not and probably other information... etc.

Making animated GIFS is outside the scope of this  list, but there are 
lots of tools to do so. Of course, animation of any kind is a tedious, 
painstaking process, depending on the level of smoothness you want and 
the file sizes you can live with (more frames=bigger sizes)

Once you have an animated GIF, you simply import it into REV like any 
other image... but, better yet, you can control much of the GIF's 
behavior by script...

googlize for "Making animated GIFs" and you will find a wealth of 
resources.


On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 10:10  AM, Jim Hurley wrote:

> Maybe I  should be worried out moving the image along the path, but 
> the issue  which motivated my question was getting the wings of the 
> dove to flap when there is (apparently) just one image of the dove in 
> the application?
>
> I have seen much discussion on the list about animated gif's. But I 
> had to see it in action with your wing-flapping dove to appreciate the 
> effect and to arouse my curiosity.
>
> So, again, my question is: How does the dove flap its wings when there 
> is just one image? I should have thought that one would successively 
> hide and show alternating images along the path to achieve the effect. 
> Perhaps you can just refer me to a place in the docs?
>
> Jim



From katir at hindu.org  Thu Jul 24 22:57:00 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu Jul 24 22:57:00 2003
Subject: UnNesting Nested Groups 
In-Reply-To: <3F20245D.3060903@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <1C91E39C-BE53-11D7-A767-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

I seem to have gotten myself in a fix  I can't find a way out of:

Make a group... lots of controls, name it "base controls"

Fumble a bit with mis-selections and click the "Group" icon on the menu 
bar inadvertently, maybe twice, and now have in the Application Browser 
(where the following GRP represents the group Icon)

GRP: Base controls
GRP:     group id 1239
GRP:         group ID 1240
GRP:            group ID 1241
                        field FirstName
                        Field Last Name
                        btn: "Listing"
                        etc. (some 40+ more controls)


Now, these controls were originally in the group "Base Controls" and 
now they have mysteriously moved to an "interior group" with no name, 
Since there a lot of data already entered, deleting groups is not an 
option...  i can click on the group and edit it.. "(Base Controls is 
selected first) click again and get the next group, click again, get 
the next group, then click a third time and finally I am selecting 
individual controls in the group ID 1241...

How can one un-nest this mess and get back to simply:

GRP: Base controls
  		field FirstName
		Field Last Name
		btn: "Listing"
		etc. (some 40+ more controls)

Now, undoubtedly my ineptitude created this situation, but it seems  
that somehow the interface shouldn't allow one to get into such a 
fix... or at least provide an easy way out. If one tries to edit the 
interior group and paste these back into "Base controls" group... all 
data on all cards is lost, even though Base Controls is placed on all 
cards..

Of course one can export all the data, clean up the interface and 
reimport it... but this has happened before... how to get rid of the 
redundant groups and retain all data?  Probably something simple I am 
missing here.



Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jul 24 23:01:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu Jul 24 23:01:01 2003
Subject: Rev and substacks
In-Reply-To: <BB45E985.1EE6%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BB45E985.1EE6%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <3F20A9D5.4030801@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/24/03 6:52 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
>>From: "Edwin Gore" <edgore at shinra.com>
 >>
>>You are correct though. When you open a stack with substacks all of them are
>>loaded completely into memory.
> 
> How about standalones? When you create standalones, the substacks may become
> separate files, yes? In that case, they must come from the drive.

Yes. There's only one rule: when you open a file from disk, the whole 
file loads into RAM. If the file is a stack with substacks, they all 
load. If the file is a standalone with substacks, they all load. If the 
file is a standalone with separate stacks on disk, only the standalone 
file loads, and its disk stacks load individually as needed.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Jul 24 23:32:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Jul 24 23:32:00 2003
Subject: UnNesting Nested Groups 
In-Reply-To: <1030725135504.3f20aa18.c0a80064.10.2.3.0.93178@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <54052338-BE56-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Untested - so try this on a backup.
script a loop in another button that does something like this:

repeat the number of controls in grp ID 1241 times
	select control 1 of grp ID 1241
	cut
	start editing grp "Base controls"
	paste
	stop editing grp "Base controls"
end repeat

Cheers,
Sarah

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 01:55  pm, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> I seem to have gotten myself in a fix  I can't find a way out of:
>
> Make a group... lots of controls, name it "base controls"
>
> Fumble a bit with mis-selections and click the "Group" icon on the 
> menu bar inadvertently, maybe twice, and now have in the Application 
> Browser (where the following GRP represents the group Icon)
>
> GRP: Base controls
> GRP:     group id 1239
> GRP:         group ID 1240
> GRP:            group ID 1241
>                        field FirstName
>                        Field Last Name
>                        btn: "Listing"
>                        etc. (some 40+ more controls)
>
>
> Now, these controls were originally in the group "Base Controls" and 
> now they have mysteriously moved to an "interior group" with no name, 
> Since there a lot of data already entered, deleting groups is not an 
> option...  i can click on the group and edit it.. "(Base Controls is 
> selected first) click again and get the next group, click again, get 
> the next group, then click a third time and finally I am selecting 
> individual controls in the group ID 1241...
>
> How can one un-nest this mess and get back to simply:
>
> GRP: Base controls
>  		field FirstName
> 		Field Last Name
> 		btn: "Listing"
> 		etc. (some 40+ more controls)
>
> Now, undoubtedly my ineptitude created this situation, but it seems  
> that somehow the interface shouldn't allow one to get into such a 
> fix... or at least provide an easy way out. If one tries to edit the 
> interior group and paste these back into "Base controls" group... all 
> data on all cards is lost, even though Base Controls is placed on all 
> cards..
>
> Of course one can export all the data, clean up the interface and 
> reimport it... but this has happened before... how to get rid of the 
> redundant groups and retain all data?  Probably something simple I am 
> missing here.
>
>
>
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
> Himalayan Academy Publications
> at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
> katir at hindu.org
>
> www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
> www.HinduismToday.com
> www.Gurudeva.org
> www.Hindu.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 24 23:57:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 24 23:57:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <45C91727-BE38-11D7-8D56-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <810B3622-BE5B-11D7-8E6E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 06:38  PM, Mark Brownell wrote:
>  Is there a way to create a matchChunk regex that picks up all 
> instances within a document that may contain several of the same > items?

OK probably! But I don't know how to do it. Some thoughts...

In the PCRE manual there are examples of regexes for repeated patterns, 
subpatterns, recursive subpatterns, subroutine callouts, and so forth. 
Very powerful stuff. Some of which is available to us, and some that is 
not. I think anything that refers to "you get this back from the C 
function blah blah" the C API is not available to us.

What you describe above, "regex that picks up all instances within a 
document", in my experience is a difficult way to approach the problem. 
There are two main dimensions to consider in designing your regex.

1) The first dimension is how you break the document up into parts to 
feed it into your pattern match, probably in a repeat structure. Each 
iteration feeding a new string to matchText or matchChunk. Where this 
string comes from, what length it is and what it's delimiters are is 
going to really depend on and be complementary to the next dimension. 
The fit between these two dimensions is really the art of designing 
regular expressions.

2) The second dimension is the width of a single match of the pattern. 
It's possible to write one regex to match a many-line xml document, but 
it would to be very complex and very unreliable unless you get it 
exactly perfect. That's not the way I would approach it. Narrow down 
the match to a small part of the document (single node or element).

You do have some flexibility in the width of the this dimension though 
because you can have repeated patterns in the regex, and can capture 
multiple parts out of the match using parens () in your pattern. 
Unfortunately matchText and matchChunk do not take an array for their 
match variables (foundVarsList and positionVarsList). However you could 
match many things in your pattern like matchText(tStr, "()()()...()", 
t1,t2,t3...tn) probably limited only by the max number of parameters in 
transcript function call, if there is a max.

Another flexibility in this dimension is the topicality of the pattern 
match. The modifiers (?smx) can be used to adjust whether a single line 
is matched, multiple lines, how whitespace is handled and how the "." 
(any-character) is handled. So the topicality relates in a way back to 
the 1st dimension, how are you feeding the data into the pattern match 
functions in the first place.

Regular Expressions are extremely powerful, but also pretty darn 
confusing when you look at the more advanced usages. Hopefully not any 
more confusing now :-)

I used to program in Perl a lot. A lot of things about Perl suck, but 
it's regular expressions capabilities are great. We are fortunate to 
have this PCRE engine in RR now.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Fri Jul 25 00:08:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Fri Jul 25 00:08:00 2003
Subject: quit
In-Reply-To: <49A74FF1-BDDA-11D7-A781-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <404E79E1-BDDE-11D7-975E-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le jeudi, 24 juil 2003, ? 15:25 Europe/Brussels, Thierry Arbellot a 
?crit :

> Hi Yves,
>
> I found another way to get French menus.
> It's more simple and it isn't needed to do something every time the 
> standalone is rebuild.
> I tried it with Rev 2.0.1 on X 10.2.6
>
> You have to modify the Rev app.
> - select the Revolution app and show the package contents
> - open Contents then Resources folder
> - you should have 3 files inside : Revolution.icns, Revolution.rsrc 
> and RevolutionDocs.icns
> - create a folder named French.lproj
> That's all.
>
> Run Rev, now the Quit Revolution menu should be Quitter Revolution, 
> and some system menus are in French.
> Rebuild your standalone. It will inherit the French.lproj folder.
>
> To give short explanation, at launch time, the app gets the preferred 
> language from the international panel and tries to find a folder with 
> the same name.
> If the folder is missing, the app uses the language defined in the 
> property CFBundleDevelopmentRegion
>
> Regards.
>
> Thierry Arbellot
>
>


Merci Thierry

inesp?r? et fantastique !!!!!!!

quand je fais un Build de mon application, le menu
"quit <myappName>" du menu application de MAC OS X
devient "Quitter <myappName>"


cela peut servir pour tous les users utilisant une autre langue que 
l'anglais !

Merci.

Salutations.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From bfr at nwlink.com  Fri Jul 25 00:09:01 2003
From: bfr at nwlink.com (Bruce Robertson)
Date: Fri Jul 25 00:09:01 2003
Subject: Database access in Rev Studio
In-Reply-To: <B9983152-BE36-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <BB4607FA.12DDD%bfr@nwlink.com>

> "MySQL tests" is one of my stacks - I guess I forget to claim any
> credit for that one :-)
> Since those of us with current licenses are apparently not allowed to
> get 2.0.2 :-(
> I can't give you any advice. I have only ever tried test databases with
> at most about 10 records. Were you able to get more records with
> earlier versions or is this your first one?

I've tried your MYSQL apps, I get "restricted under current license" when
trying to connect. My current license is a pro 2.02 license. 



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 00:41:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri Jul 25 00:41:00 2003
Subject: UnNesting Nested Groups 
In-Reply-To: <1C91E39C-BE53-11D7-A767-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <20030725053413.46493.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> wrote:
> I seem to have gotten myself in a fix  I can't find
> a way out of:
> 
> Make a group... lots of controls, name it "base
> controls"
> 
> Fumble a bit with mis-selections and click the
> "Group" icon on the menu 
> bar inadvertently, maybe twice, and now have in the
> Application Browser 
> (where the following GRP represents the group Icon)
> 
> GRP: Base controls
> GRP:     group id 1239
> GRP:         group ID 1240
> GRP:            group ID 1241
>                         field FirstName
>                         Field Last Name
>                         btn: "Listing"
>                         etc. (some 40+ more
> controls)
> 
> 
> Now, these controls were originally in the group
> "Base Controls" and 
> now they have mysteriously moved to an "interior
> group" with no name, 
> Since there a lot of data already entered, deleting
> groups is not an 
> option...  i can click on the group and edit it..
> "(Base Controls is 
> selected first) click again and get the next group,
> click again, get 
> the next group, then click a third time and finally
> I am selecting 
> individual controls in the group ID 1241...
> 
> How can one un-nest this mess and get back to
> simply:
> 
> GRP: Base controls
>   		field FirstName
> 		Field Last Name
> 		btn: "Listing"
> 		etc. (some 40+ more controls)
> 
> Now, undoubtedly my ineptitude created this
> situation, but it seems  
> that somehow the interface shouldn't allow one to
> get into such a 
> fix... or at least provide an easy way out. If one
> tries to edit the 
> interior group and paste these back into "Base
> controls" group... all 
> data on all cards is lost, even though Base Controls
> is placed on all 
> cards..
> 
> Of course one can export all the data, clean up the
> interface and 
> reimport it... but this has happened before... how
> to get rid of the 
> redundant groups and retain all data?  Probably
> something simple I am 
> missing here.
> 
> 
> 
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
> 

Hi Sannyasin,

Check out the 'relayerGroupedControls' global
property, find out the layer of the outer group, and
change the layers of the individual controls.
I haven't tried it with fields that have sharedText,
though, so you might want to copy the stack first.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From jeanne at runrev.com  Fri Jul 25 02:43:00 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri Jul 25 02:43:00 2003
Subject: Klaus - You da man!
In-Reply-To: <BA5872B1-BE0C-11D7-844F-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <9A18EC0E-BE0B-11D7-8185-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <v03130306bb462f466036@[10.0.1.2]>

At 12:26PM -0700 7/24/03, Klaus Major wrote:
>> The line "set the loc of img -1 to the loc of player 1" is puzzling,
>> though. It does work (from the message box) if I substitute "1" for
>> "-1".
>
>Yeah, discoverd this today.
>Looks like this does not work with all objects...
>
>Or maybe only with (text-)chunks?

Yes, only text chunks. You can say

  set the loc of last image to the loc of player 1

though.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Fri Jul 25 02:43:38 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri Jul 25 02:43:38 2003
Subject: UnNesting Nested Groups
In-Reply-To: <1C91E39C-BE53-11D7-A767-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <3F20245D.3060903@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <v0313030abb46686afeda@[10.0.1.2]>

At 8:50PM -0700 7/24/03, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>GRP: Base controls
>GRP:     group id 1239
>GRP:         group ID 1240
>GRP:            group ID 1241
>                        field FirstName
>                        Field Last Name
>                        btn: "Listing"
>                        etc. (some 40+ more controls)
>
>How can one un-nest this mess and get back to simply:
>
>GRP: Base controls
>  		field FirstName
>		Field Last Name
>		btn: "Listing"
>		etc. (some 40+ more controls)

Select the outermost group and choose "Ungroup". Keep doing this until you
reach the innermost level. When you have only one level of group left,
rename it "Base controls".

(If you accidentally ungroup the final group (so that you have only card
controls, and no groups), do not panic, but re-group them WITHOUT leaving
the card you're on. This will prevent field data on other cards from being
lost, and is handy to know, because I suspect we've all accidentally
ungrouped a shared group that includes fields at least once.)


Alternatively, select the outermost group and start editing it. Click the
next-nested group and choose "ungroup", and keep doing this until you have
no more groups. Since you are still in edit mode for the outermost group
"Base controls", you can now stop editing the group and all your controls
will be contained in it. (This might actually be an easier option since you
won't have to restore any settings of the "Base controls" group.)


(Needless to say, I advise doing anything like this on a backup.)

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From tkuypers at pandora.be  Fri Jul 25 03:19:00 2003
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (tkuypers at pandora.be)
Date: Fri Jul 25 03:19:00 2003
Subject: LibURL & file-encoding question
In-Reply-To: <p06001201bb45b1c64bbb@[192.168.123.7]>
Message-ID: <BB46B2FA.B5D9%tkuypers@pandora.be>

Dave, Jan,

I was right in my assumption that the Oracle-guys sent me the wrong data...
They changed the encoding of the XML (don't ask me how or what) and now it
works like a charm :-)

Thanks for your assistance

Ton Kuypers


> From: Dave Cragg <dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:05:08 +0100
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: LibURL & file-encoding question
> 
> At 12:44 pm +0200 23/7/03, tkuypers at pandora.be wrote:
>> Jan,
>> 
>> I figured your solution out about 3 minutes after I sent my mail, but too
>> bad... It's a no-go :-(
>> 
>> What happens:
>> 
>> Use Explorer to fetch the XML data from the database:
>>   -> Shows perfect in the browser.
>> Save the file as an XML-file and re-open it:
>>   -> Parsing error
>> Open the XML in Notepad and save with UTF8 encoding:
>>   -> Shows perfect in the browser.
> 
> It looks like the problem is in the way Explorer saves the file. I'm
> assuming the original data is utf8 but it looks like it is getting
> saved as ISO latin.
> 
>> Then:
>> 
>> Get the url in RR and put it into tXMLData
>> put uniEncode(tXMLData,"UTF8") into URL("file:" & tFilePath)
> 
> This will convert the data to utf16 which is probably not what you
> want. (Also, it may be better to save XML data as a "binfile"  -- put
> ... into url ("binfile:" & tFilepath)
> 
>> Result: < ? x m l  v e r s i o n = " 1 . 0 " etc.
>> The second byte is obviously not used in the XML, so encoding does what it
>> has to do, but messes things up.
>> 
>> The XML does not have the encoding-part in the header, when I add it before
>> saving there is no difference.
>> 
>> Do you know if the XML in the database (Oracle) needs to be "formatted" or
>> transmitted in a special way by any chance? The strange thing is that
>> Explorer works with it fine, but saving the file screws it up...
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what you want to do. But if you just want to
> save the data as a utf-8 encoded file, what happens when you download
> with Rev, save to a file (using "binfile"), and then open in Internet
> Explorer?
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Fri Jul 25 05:16:00 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Fri Jul 25 05:16:00 2003
Subject: Keeping a palette visible when clicking on Finder 
In-Reply-To: <200307250245.WAA12984@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB46CE6F.B40%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Thanks Klaus, Mark and Sarah!

Finally I figuered out a way with the help of you.
I stick relatively close to Klaus suggestion, but I use suspend and resume
instead of suspendStack and resumeStack to toggle between toplevel and
palette. Even though I was a bit puzzled that they are sent to the card
instead of the stack. I had the script in the stacksript in my first try and
it worked, but randomly it did not. Every 20-30 clicks.
When I tried suspendstack my 2nd stack was also topleveled when clicking
from stack 1 into stack 2, so it did not work for me. I set the decorations
of my stack to none. Finally added lock/unlock screen. This seems to work
pretty well.

Regards,

Malte

[Edit]

Just tested again...
In the IDE sometimes it does not work (every 40 clicks or so) but the built
works...
Thank you so much!!!
[/edit]



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Fri Jul 25 09:09:02 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Fri Jul 25 09:09:02 2003
Subject: Keeping a palette visible when clicking on Finder 
In-Reply-To: <200307250245.WAA12984@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB4704DF.B43%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi List,

I cheered a bit too early :-(
It works perfectly under 9 and in the IDE under X but doesn?t work in my X
built...
Anything else I can try???

Malte

>Thanks Klaus, Mark and Sarah!

>Finally I figuered out a way with the help of you.
>I stick relatively close to Klaus suggestion, but I use suspend and resume
instead of suspendStack and resumeStack to toggle between toplevel and
palette. Even though I was a bit puzzled that they are sent to the card
instead of the stack. I had the script in the stacksript in my first try and
it worked, but randomly it did not. Every 20-30 clicks.
>When I tried suspendstack my 2nd stack was also topleveled when clicking from
stack 1 into stack 2, so it did not work for me. I set the decorations of my
stack to none. Finally added lock/unlock screen. This seems to work pretty
well.

>Regards,

>Malte

>[Edit]

>Just tested again...
>In the IDE sometimes it does not work (every 40 clicks or so) but the built
works...
>Thank you so much!!!
>[/edit]



From rtamesis at cox.net  Fri Jul 25 10:36:02 2003
From: rtamesis at cox.net (rtamesis at cox.net)
Date: Fri Jul 25 10:36:02 2003
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <20030725152838.QQSB15657.lakemtao06.cox.net@smtp.central.cox.net>

use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Default pushbutton background in OS X
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:28:36 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I don't know if this is a bug or not. I'm using Revolution 2.0.2 under OS 
X. The background fill of the stack is set at white. I then imported a 
colored image as a background into my stack. When I then add a 
pushbutton, the white background fill of the stack shows up around the 
button if I set the button as a Default button rather than the 
background image. How do I prevent the 
stack's background fill from covering my background image in this case?



From steve at messimercomputing.com  Fri Jul 25 10:51:02 2003
From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Stephen Messimer)
Date: Fri Jul 25 10:51:02 2003
Subject: ungrouping
In-Reply-To: <200307251311.JAA20830@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <E46F660E-BEB6-11D7-9733-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>

Sannyasin,

I feel your pain!  If I understand the problem correctly there is a 
solution.  :-)

FIrst copy the stack as it is and leave the original in a safe place 
just incase this doesn't work.

There are two possible ways to deal with this.

1.  Go to the Second deepest nested grp using the edit grp btn of the 
rev tools bar. Select the group you want to remove.  Make sure  that 
grps selection handles are showing. (You are not editing it yet.)  Cut 
the grp from its current owner.  Select the browse tool.  Now select 
the pointer and click the main group. Click the edit button of the Rev 
toolbar.  Paste the wayward group.

2.  This method requires that you disassemble all the groups containing 
your wayward group. Go to the SECOND deepest nested grp using the edit 
grp btn of the rev tools bar. Select the group you want to remove. Make 
sure  that grp's selection handles are showing AND the no other objects 
or groups are selected. Now click the group button of the tools menu.  
When this btn is used with a group it ungroups all the objects. to 
dthis as many times as you need to reduce the mess to individual 
objects.  Then reassemble your stack.

Before you do this be sure to copy any group scripts that you have 
written for the grp.  Once you ungrp it that script will transcend this 
plain of exsistence.  :-)

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Steve

Stephen R. Messimer, PA
208 1st Ave. South	
Escanaba, MI 49829
www.messimercomputing.com
--


On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 09:11 AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> GRP: Base controls
>   		field FirstName
> 		Field Last Name
> 		btn: "Listing"
> 		etc. (some 40+ more controls)
>
> Now, undoubtedly my ineptitude created this situation, but it seems
> that somehow the interface shouldn't allow one to get into such a
> fix... or at least provide an easy way out. If one tries to edit the
> interior group and paste these back into "Base controls" group... all
> data on all cards is lost, even though Base Controls is placed on all
> cards..

Macintosh G-4 OSX 10.2.5, OS 9.2.2, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.0 fc1



From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Jul 25 11:03:02 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri Jul 25 11:03:02 2003
Subject: [OT] Quick Quiz For HyperCarders
Message-ID: <a05100301bb4701f919dd@[216.229.107.252]>

Hi All,

I ran across an old eSig of mine [below] which prompts these questions:

* Can anyone recite the text that inspired my quotation?

* Can anyone tell me the source of that text?

-- 

Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"Prolonging the hour of astonishment..."


From jiml at netrin.com  Fri Jul 25 11:18:01 2003
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Fri Jul 25 11:18:01 2003
Subject: tokens and paths
In-Reply-To: <200307250245.WAA12952@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBICMMKLOIPMPOLALAKEAGFFAA.jiml@netrin.com>

Edwin:<some of the tokens are legal to use in filenames...>
Dar: <file name with space or comma or hyphen or ...>

Ah, yes, there's the rub. 
Well, back to the two-liner.

Thanks,
Jim Lambert
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/03



From jhurley at infostations.com  Fri Jul 25 11:25:01 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Fri Jul 25 11:25:01 2003
Subject: Focus, MouseLeave message, AND creating animated gifs.
In-Reply-To: <200307250245.WAA12952@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307250245.WAA12952@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb46fea4dca0@[66.81.129.56]>

>
>Message: 5
>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:23:09 +1000
>From: Sarah <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
>Subject: Re: Focus
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>When I do this, the substack DOES get the focus. Is there something
>else interfering - possibly an openStack handler in either the main
>stack or the substack?
>
>Cheers,
>Sarah

Sarah,

You are quite right. Returning to the stack I found that the substack 
does get the focus. Don't know why it didn't do this earlier.

"Tripping hither
Tripping thither
Nobody knows not why or whither."

(Gilbert and Sullivan: Iolanthe)

Thanks,

Jim

>
>  >Message: 14
>>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:08:05 -0500
>>From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
>>Organization: HyperActive Software
>>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>  >Subject: Re: Clicking on linked text sends a mouseLeave message?
>  >Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>  >
>  >When the arrow graphic appears under the mouse, the field gets a
>  >"mouseleave" and the graphic gets a "mouseEnter" message. In other
>  >words, the focus shifts. (This is a new feature of the engine; it didn't
>  >used to work that way.)
>  >
>  >You could work around it by not using the mouseloc as the start of the
>  >arrow. Add a few pixels to the horizontal position, for example.
>  >(Although if the user moves the mouse over the graphic, the graphic will
>  >disappear again.)
>  >
>  >--
>  >Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>  >HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>  >
>

Jacqueline,
I stumbled on an even simpler solution.

on mouseLeave
    if the mouseLoc is not within the rect of me then set the points 
of graphic "arrow" to ""
end mouseLeave

This would appear at first to be redundant. That is, if there is a 
mouseLeave message, the mouse would not be with the rectangle. But, 
as you pointed out, it can be in the rect and yet leave when the 
arrow graphic is created at the mouseLoc.  Apparently, however, it 
(the engine) still thinks the mouse is within the field rectangle.

So this handler has the desired effect: It sets the graphic points to 
empty only when the mouse actually leaves the field rectangle.

Jim

>
>Message: 14
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:37:17 -1000
>Subject: Re: Move along path animation/bezier curves
>From: Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>Jim,
>
>Time for you to crack open any number of tools (ImageReady, GifBuilder,
>etc.) other than Rev to learn about animated GIFs. These are images
>that have a series of embedded frames in the same file. I am not
>expert, but we understand that included in the file data is the length
>of time that any given frame is to be displayed, and if they should be
>displayed repeatedly or not and probably other information... etc.

(snip)

Sannyasin,

Thanks, that is all I needed to know to get started. I had assumed 
that this was all done within RR.

Jim


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Fri Jul 25 11:30:01 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Fri Jul 25 11:30:01 2003
Subject: Keeping a palette visible when clicking on Finder 
In-Reply-To: <200307250245.WAA12984@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB47260C.B47%malte.brill@t-online.de>

O.K. got it working now. Sorry for being a pain.
I had to resave the stack (to another location), then rebuild and it
works!!!

Now I enjoy jumping around and sing a little. :-)

Regards,

Malte



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 25 12:12:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 25 12:12:01 2003
Subject: fonts in htmlText
In-Reply-To: <59D4FD44-B98B-11D7-A8E1-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <2141D7F6-BEC2-11D7-9135-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 07:50  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> On Mac OS X 10.2.6/ Rev 2.0.1 I am putting all my fonts into htmlText, 
> one font per paragraph. Mostly it looks great, but there are several 
> fonts that are not rendering at all- they come through as Verdana or 
> something. The problem ones are
> ...
> Several other fonts have the correct face, but don't obey the size="" 
> tag in htmlText.
>
> Should I bug report all this?

My apologies, there is no bug. I was not quoting the face attribute of 
the font
tag. I guess the fonts which seemed problematic all had spaces in their 
names.

put format("<p><font face=\"%s\" size=\"%s\">%s %d</font></p>", ...)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Fri Jul 25 12:14:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Fri Jul 25 12:14:01 2003
Subject: Can't purge a stack
Message-ID: <200307251706.h6PH6gI19938@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

I've got a open document routine that checks to see if the document being opened is in an older version of my doc format, and if it is, it creates a new document and imports all the data from the old document into the new.

The problem I am running into is that the last thing I want to do is remove the old document from memeory, rename the new document to the name of the old document, then save the new document over the old one.

The documents are actually stacks, and I am running into a wierd problem. The old document is set to Purge Stack on Close, and Purge Window on Close, and it's  Can't Delete is set the false. I am even using the Delete command to close it...but it's still there. During debugging I can even see that it's still in the application broswer, and it's selectable there.

How can I get revolution to actually remove it from memeory????


From edgore at shinra.com  Fri Jul 25 12:42:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Fri Jul 25 12:42:01 2003
Subject: Can't purge a stack
Message-ID: <200307251734.h6PHYV027444@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Ignore me. I figured it out. It's just another one of the little weird things that the App Broswer does. Checking the openstacks() shows that it's in fact gone.

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: "Edwin Gore" <edgore at shinra.com>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:06:42
>
>I've got a open document routine that checks to see
>if the document being opened is in an older version
>of my doc format, and if it is, it creates a new
>document and imports all the data from the old
>document into the new.
>
>The problem I am running into is that the last
>thing I want to do is remove the old document from
>memeory, rename the new document to the name of the
>old document, then save the new document over the
>old one.
>
>The documents are actually stacks, and I am running
>into a wierd problem. The old document is set to
>Purge Stack on Close, and Purge Window on Close,
>and it's  Can't Delete is set the false. I am even
>using the Delete command to close it...but it's
>still there. During debugging I can even see that
>it's still in the application broswer, and it's
>selectable there.
>
>How can I get revolution to actually remove it from
>memeory????
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Jul 25 13:18:01 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Jul 25 13:18:01 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
Message-ID: <000101c352d8$13000d90$f600000a@porthos>

This in an annoying distraction which I'm sure will have an easy answer.

When I save a rev stack I use (the suggested) .rev extension.

However I also use WinRAR which according to filext.com uses the .rev
extension (with a few other packages) as its own. This means WinRAR 'own' my
Rev stacks, when I double click it tries to open WinRAR.

Using XP I can usually change this file association. However a right click
on the stack and a click on the "Change..." button doesn't allow me to
select "revolution"; its not listed.

My first question is "How to I associate .rev to revolution?"

As there is only a fixed number of three letter file extensions. How does a
developer, considering cross platform data files for their owns stacks,
provide or register/'own' a unique or non conflicting filetype. 

Thanks in advance,

Gary Rathbone




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 25 13:35:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 25 13:35:02 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <000101c352d8$13000d90$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <AF441696-BECD-11D7-9135-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 12:10  PM, Gary Rathbone wrote:

>
> My first question is "How to I associate .rev to revolution?"

In the Finder, try this:
Get Info (Command-I), Open With | select App | Change All...

> As there is only a fixed number of three letter file extensions. How 
> does a
> developer, considering cross platform data files for their owns stacks,
> provide or register/'own' a unique or non conflicting filetype.

Mac OS X uses BOTH filename extensions and application creator codes. 
You can search a database here http://tcdb2000.tripod.com/ and for no 
charge you can reserve your own unique creator code at apple.com

Some OS X apps care only about filename extensions (especially Unix-y 
and Cocoa apps are like this), some care only about creator codes 
(legacy Mac apps), and some care about both (a few smart apps)!! It's a 
mess.

How to best approach this problem in Runrev I do not know. There are 
some articles in the RR cookbook, and the RevNet plugin, which talk 
about how to do file associations in RR on OS X.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 25 13:39:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 25 13:39:02 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <000101c352d8$13000d90$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <550640B2-BECE-11D7-9135-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 12:10  PM, Gary Rathbone wrote:

> As there is only a fixed number of three letter file extensions.

Also, the filename extension is not limited to 3 chars. That's a 
DOS-ism: remember 8.3 filenames? A lot of Apple's own apps use 4 or 5 
letter file extensions (.mbox, .pbproj, .plist, .icns, etc) Just make 
your extension as descriptive as you want!

However the creator code is a 4 character sequence, I think. It need 
not have any resemblance to the filename extension BTW.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Fri Jul 25 13:46:01 2003
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com)
Date: Fri Jul 25 13:46:01 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
Message-ID: <a05210603bb4729151631@[192.168.1.100]>

ummm..... Gary is having a problem with Windows....not OSX

unfortunately not as easy....

sqb


>On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 12:10  PM, Gary Rathbone wrote:
>
>>
>>My first question is "How to I associate .rev to revolution?"
>
>In the Finder, try this:
>Get Info (Command-I), Open With | select App | Change All...


From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Jul 25 13:54:01 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Jul 25 13:54:01 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <AF441696-BECD-11D7-9135-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <000201c352dd$0f7e4790$f600000a@porthos>

Alex,

Thanks for your prompt response. I can associate the Mac stuff, it's the Win
stuff that causes problems.

> Mac OS X uses BOTH filename extensions and application creator codes.
> You can search a database here http://tcdb2000.tripod.com/ and for no
> charge you can reserve your own unique creator code at apple.com

Thanks for that. Although I guess I can't reserve a windows extension.

Regards

Gary Rathbone 




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Jul 25 13:56:03 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri Jul 25 13:56:03 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <000101c352d8$13000d90$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-AEE82C6EBED011D78D3100039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

On 7/25/03 Gary Rathbone wrote

>As there is only a fixed number of three letter file extensions. How does a
>developer, considering cross platform data files for their owns stacks,
>provide or register/'own' a unique or non conflicting filetype. 

One option to consider is to not use three letter file extensions.  For a program I recently did for a Windows centric company they chose a 7 letter extension (camthtr) for files saved with the app since most (if not all) the 3 letter ones are taken by someone.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From jameslewes at comcast.net  Fri Jul 25 13:58:01 2003
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (James Lewes)
Date: Fri Jul 25 13:58:01 2003
Subject: CGI tutorial for denser than dummy
In-Reply-To: <000101c352d8$13000d90$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <E8642194-BED0-11D7-A503-000502F78A80@comcast.net>

Has anybody on the list go a cgi tutorial for denser than dummy.

James



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 25 14:00:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 25 14:00:02 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <a05210603bb4729151631@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <288A1F56-BED1-11D7-9135-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 12:37  PM, stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com 
wrote:

> ummm..... Gary is having a problem with Windows....not OSX
>
> unfortunately not as easy....

Whoops- sorry 'bout that.


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Fri Jul 25 14:09:02 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Fri Jul 25 14:09:02 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
Message-ID: <200307251901.h6PJ1qS54718@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

When you go into properties and click "Change" the dialog that shows up with the list of Apps should have an "Other..." button. Click on this, navigate to the location you installed Revolution, and select Revolution.exe as the appliaction to open .rev files.

As far as figuring out what extensions are in use by who, I've found http://filext.com/ to be a valuable resource. For my windows work I have usually settled on something that's descriptive, and not in use by anything too common.

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: "Gary Rathbone"
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:46:24
>
>Alex,
>
>Thanks for your prompt response. I can associate
>the Mac stuff, it's the Win
>stuff that causes problems.
>
>> Mac OS X uses BOTH filename extensions and
>application creator codes.
>> You can search a database here
>http://tcdb2000.tripod.com/ and for no
>> charge you can reserve your own unique creator
>code at apple.com
>
>Thanks for that. Although I guess I can't reserve a
>windows extension.
>
>Regards
>
>Gary Rathbone 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 25 14:09:59 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 25 14:09:59 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <000101c352d8$13000d90$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <7CE11FE2-BED2-11D7-AF0D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 12:10 PM, Gary Rathbone wrote:

> My first question is "How to I associate .rev to revolution?"

Good news:  There is a way.
Bad news:   My PC broke and I'm only now reinstalling VPC on OS X
             and I can't remember how to do the association.

>
> As there is only a fixed number of three letter file extensions. How 
> does a
> developer, considering cross platform data files for their owns stacks,
> provide or register/'own' a unique or non conflicting filetype.

Good news:  There is a web site that keeps track of common practice in 
this.
             If .rev is there, that will slow down others in using it.
             It can also give you a heads-up on potential conflicts.
Bad news:   I don't remember the URL, either.

My kids say I saw a movie with a fish named Dory in it.  They bring 
that up when I can't remember things.

Dar Scott





From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 25 14:14:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 25 14:14:01 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <000101c352d8$13000d90$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <2E268255-BED3-11D7-AF0D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 12:10 PM, Gary Rathbone wrote:

> However I also use WinRAR which according to filext.com uses the .rev
> extension (with a few other packages) as its own.

I need to learn to read.  I wouldn't have suggested that there was such 
a website, if I could.

Dar



From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Fri Jul 25 14:17:02 2003
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Fri Jul 25 14:17:02 2003
Subject: Clicking on linked text sends a mouseLeave message?
Message-ID: <3F21826A.D2097A0@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:

> The  script below allows students to click on various words
> ("objective lens", "ocular lens" etc.) in a "Help field" and an arrow
> is drawn from the linked word or phrase to the object in question.
>
> But I want the arrow to go away (set the points of graphic "arrow" to
> empty) when the the mouse leaves the  field.
>
>   But my handler "mouseLeave" beeps every time I click on a link, the
> arrow flashes but immediately disappears.
>
> Why should clicking on a link send a mouseLeave message?
>
> If I omit the mouseLeave handler, the arrow appears and stays as it
> should. (But of course it doesn't go away when the mouse leaves the
> field.)
>
> on mouseUP
>    if there is no graphic "arrow" then
>      set the style of the templateGraphic to "line"
>      set the endarrow of the templateGraphic to true
>      set the lineSize of the templateGraphic  to  2
>      create graphic "arrow"
>    end if
>
>    put the mouseLoc into line 1 of tGraphicPoints --Set the start
> point of the arrow
>    put the clicktext into what
>
>    switch what
>    case "objective lens"
>      put 869,217 into line 2 of tGraphicPoints -- Set the end point
>      break
>    case "ocular lens"
>      put 545,263 into line 2 of tGraphicPoints
>      break
>    case "focal point"
>      put 435,327 into line 2 of tGraphicPoints
>      break
>    default
>      put "" into line 2 of tGraphicPoints
>      break
>    end switch
>    set the points of graphic "arrow" to tGraphicPoints --Draw the arrow
>    send "choose the browse tool" to me in 1 tick
> end mouseUp
>
> on mouseLeave
>    beep
>    set the points of graphic "arrow" to ""
> end mouseLeave
>

Apart from Jacqueline?s suggestions and your workarounds

> >You could work around it by not using the mouseloc as the start of the
> >arrow. Add a few pixels to the horizontal position, for example.
> >(Although if the user moves the mouse over the graphic, the graphic will
> >disappear again.)
> >
> >--
> >Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> >HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >
>
> Jacqueline,
>
> I never would have guess this resolution. Knowing what the problem is
> I can work around it. The following is clumsy but it works:
>
> on mouseLeave
>    put 2 into tMargin
>    put the mouseV into tY
>    put the mouseH  into tX
>    if tX - tMargin < item 1 of the rect of me or tY - tMargin < item 2
> of the rect of me then
>      set the points of graphic "arrow" to ""
>    end if
>

there is still another simple solution. Leave the mouseup handler of
your first script (of Thursday) exactly as it is. Delete the mouseleave
handler.
Place a transparent field on top of your "Help" field. Put the following
script into the transparent field and put the mouseleave handler here,
too:

"on mouseUp
  put the mouseloc into MLoc
  lock screen
  hide me
  click at MLoc
  show me
  unlock screen
end mouseUp

on mouseLeave
  set the points of graphic "arrow" to ""
end mouseLeave"

Using "lock screen" could be also left out, it only prevents the
linktext to change colors.

I have used the technique of clicking at a transparent field and then
hiding it for a moment on several occassions, last time in a game stack
I sent to User Contributions three weeks ago, but which has not yet made
it to the website.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke




From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 25 14:18:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 25 14:18:01 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <000101c352d8$13000d90$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <D0CE8A67-BED3-11D7-AF0D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 12:10 PM, Gary Rathbone wrote:

> When I save a rev stack I use (the suggested) .rev extension.

For stacks that are essentially plugins to your own standalone, you  
might want your own extension.

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Jul 25 14:50:02 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Jul 25 14:50:02 2003
Subject: RE .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <200307251901.h6PJ1qS54718@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <000001c352e4$d7b46210$f600000a@porthos>

> When you go into properties and click "Change" the dialog that shows up
> with the list of Apps should have an "Other..." button. Click on this,
> navigate to the location you installed Revolution, and select
> Revolution.exe as the appliaction to open .rev files.

Done this, and selecting revolution doesn't change the association.

> As far as figuring out what extensions are in use by who, I've found
> http://filext.com/ to be a valuable resource. For my windows work I have
> usually settled on something that's descriptive, and not in use by
> anything too common.

This is also suggested by XP in the properties dialog box, and leads me to
believe that .rev is 'owned' more by WinRAR, than runrev.

Many Thanks

Gary Rathbone







From edgore at shinra.com  Fri Jul 25 14:59:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Fri Jul 25 14:59:01 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
Message-ID: <200307251951.h6PJpxF71101@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Okay.....that doesn't work. Even though it should. I also tried going to the folder options control panel and creating a new association for .rev - no luck.

If this is a bug, who's is it?

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: "Edwin Gore"
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:01:52
>
>When you go into properties and click "Change" the
>dialog that shows up with the list of Apps should
>have an "Other..." button. Click on this, navigate
>to the location you installed Revolution, and
>select Revolution.exe as the appliaction to open
>.rev files.
>
>As far as figuring out what extensions are in use
>by who, I've found http://filext.com/ to be a
>valuable resource. For my windows work I have
>usually settled on something that's descriptive,
>and not in use by anything too common.
>
>>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>>From: "Gary Rathbone"
>>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:46:24
>>
>>Alex,
>>
>>Thanks for your prompt response. I can associate
>>the Mac stuff, it's the Win
>>stuff that causes problems.
>>
>>> Mac OS X uses BOTH filename extensions and
>>application creator codes.
>>> You can search a database here
>>http://tcdb2000.tripod.com/ and for no
>>> charge you can reserve your own unique creator
>>code at apple.com
>>
>>Thanks for that. Although I guess I can't reserve
>a
>>windows extension.
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Gary Rathbone 
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>tion
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revol
>u
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From edgore at shinra.com  Fri Jul 25 15:03:02 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Fri Jul 25 15:03:02 2003
Subject: RE .rev file association issues
Message-ID: <200307251955.h6PJtp372096@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

The ling is - I don't have WinRAR on this machine, and it still won't do it. Windows pays no attention at all to who "officially" owns a file extension (unlike, for example, Apple), so I cannot think of a single reason this should happen, unless there is something corrupt about the registery entries for Revolution tht is making it impossible to associate.

I'll have to try uninstalling and re-installing and see what happens (my .rev files haven't been associated with Revolution since I installed 2.01 then uninstalled 2.0 and the uninstall stripped out the associations).

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: "Gary Rathbone"
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:42:06
>
>> When you go into properties and click "Change"
>the dialog that shows up
>> with the list of Apps should have an "Other..."
>button. Click on this,
>> navigate to the location you installed
>Revolution, and select
>> Revolution.exe as the appliaction to open .rev
>files.
>
>Done this, and selecting revolution doesn't change
>the association.
>
>> As far as figuring out what extensions are in use
>by who, I've found
>> http://filext.com/ to be a valuable resource. For
>my windows work I have
>> usually settled on something that's descriptive,
>and not in use by
>> anything too common.
>
>This is also suggested by XP in the properties
>dialog box, and leads me to
>believe that .rev is 'owned' more by WinRAR, than
>runrev.
>
>Many Thanks
>
>Gary Rathbone
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 25 15:04:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 25 15:04:01 2003
Subject: [OT] What is a computer programmer?
Message-ID: <38AD3DB4-BEDA-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

This is an interesting read and may interest a lot of RR users.
http://www.paulgraham.com/hp.html

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Fri Jul 25 15:12:02 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Fri Jul 25 15:12:02 2003
Subject: RE .rev file association issues
Message-ID: <200307252005.h6PK5Wb74663@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Nope - uninstalling and re-installing doesn't reassociate the files either. Looks like it's time for a bug report...

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: "Edwin Gore" <edgore at shinra.com>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:55:51
>
>The ling is - I don't have WinRAR on this machine,
>and it still won't do it. Windows pays no attention
>at all to who "officially" owns a file extension
>(unlike, for example, Apple), so I cannot think of
>a single reason this should happen, unless there is
>something corrupt about the registery entries for
>Revolution tht is making it impossible to
>associate.
>
>I'll have to try uninstalling and re-installing and
>see what happens (my .rev files haven't been
>associated with Revolution since I installed 2.01
>then uninstalled 2.0 and the uninstall stripped out
>the associations).
>
>>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>>From: "Gary Rathbone"
>>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:42:06
>>
>>> When you go into properties and click "Change"
>>the dialog that shows up
>>> with the list of Apps should have an "Other..."
>>button. Click on this,
>>> navigate to the location you installed
>>Revolution, and select
>>> Revolution.exe as the appliaction to open .rev
>>files.
>>
>>Done this, and selecting revolution doesn't change
>
>>the association.
>>
>>> As far as figuring out what extensions are in
>use
>>by who, I've found
>>> http://filext.com/ to be a valuable resource.
>For
>>my windows work I have
>>> usually settled on something that's descriptive,
>
>>and not in use by
>>> anything too common.
>>
>>This is also suggested by XP in the properties
>>dialog box, and leads me to
>>believe that .rev is 'owned' more by WinRAR, than
>>runrev.
>>
>>Many Thanks
>>
>>Gary Rathbone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>tion
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revol
>u
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From katir at hindu.org  Fri Jul 25 15:19:01 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Fri Jul 25 15:19:01 2003
Subject: Long File Names
Message-ID: <3A11977B-BEDC-11D7-A767-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

We have a somewhat "giant" archive process in the works where hundreds  
and hundreds of audio tapes are being digitized by a firm in Seattle  
and will eventually be archived here on DVD and then distributed via  
the net for transcription and later public web access. I am using  
Revolution for the transcription process and most probably will build a  
cataloging application tailor made for our needs. The issue of long  
file names arises. Here are parts of the conundrum:

a) we see recommendations among the WC3 standards docs to stay with a  
maximum 31 char file name.

b) Windows allows long file names.

c) On Mac OSX, one can, for example, save an email with a long subject  
line (say 75 characters long) and the OS file system will save it to  
disk with a file name that is 75 characters long.

e.g.

Receive a Bonus Upgrade or XT From Markzware.txt

d) But! if I read this into Revolution , using "answer file" I get this:

/Users/katir/   Working/  Editorial/  Letters to the editor/
Receive a Bonus Upgr#10AA21.txt

where the Rev engine or the Mac OSX (can't determine which) has  
truncated the file name to 31 chars, hashing the overlength portion  
using a mysterious algorithm.

e) Mac OSX itself, in a number of applications, disallows entry of more  
than 31 chars.

f) but the Mac OSX Finder allows me to enter a file name of 255  
characters:

123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789- 
123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789- 
123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789- 
123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-1.txt

So, this leaves me scratching my head. If i could get Rev to preserve  
long filenames from "answer file" I might stay with long file names  
despite the "prohibition" that we see because as far as I can  see,  
anything to 255 chars is now legal... but some dialog boxes  only allow  
31 and we are getting back long file names hashed down to 31 char...

Any insights appreciated... what is the unix limit? Linux?

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org



From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Fri Jul 25 15:31:01 2003
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Fri Jul 25 15:31:01 2003
Subject: quit
In-Reply-To: <404E79E1-BDDE-11D7-975E-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <F8E7DADC-BEDD-11D7-A48C-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>

Your right, other countries' users may use this trick to localize their 
version, e.g. German...

Notice that not only the Quit menu is changed, but also the Apple menu, 
App menu, Help menu and system's dialogs like the file selector.

Also, it's possible to have many "language" folders - I have now on my 
installation French.lproj, English.lproj and German.lproj - useful if 
you plan to distribute multi-language app.

Regards.

Thierry Arbellot.

On Thursday, Jul 24, 2003, at 15:53 Europe/Paris, Yves COPPE wrote:

>
> Le jeudi, 24 juil 2003, ? 15:25 Europe/Brussels, Thierry Arbellot a 
> ?crit :
>
>> Hi Yves,
>>
>> I found another way to get French menus.
>> It's more simple and it isn't needed to do something every time the 
>> standalone is rebuild.
>> I tried it with Rev 2.0.1 on X 10.2.6
>>
>> You have to modify the Rev app.
>> - select the Revolution app and show the package contents
>> - open Contents then Resources folder
>> - you should have 3 files inside : Revolution.icns, Revolution.rsrc 
>> and RevolutionDocs.icns
>> - create a folder named French.lproj
>> That's all.
>>
>> Run Rev, now the Quit Revolution menu should be Quitter Revolution, 
>> and some system menus are in French.
>> Rebuild your standalone. It will inherit the French.lproj folder.
>>
>> To give short explanation, at launch time, the app gets the preferred 
>> language from the international panel and tries to find a folder with 
>> the same name.
>> If the folder is missing, the app uses the language defined in the 
>> property CFBundleDevelopmentRegion
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Thierry Arbellot
>>
>>
>
>
> Merci Thierry
>
> inesp?r? et fantastique !!!!!!!
>
> quand je fais un Build de mon application, le menu
> "quit <myappName>" du menu application de MAC OS X
> devient "Quitter <myappName>"
>
>
> cela peut servir pour tous les users utilisant une autre langue que 
> l'anglais !
>
> Merci.
>
> Salutations.
> Yves COPPE
>
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 25 15:47:01 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri Jul 25 15:47:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <810B3622-BE5B-11D7-8E6E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <83213ECA-BEE0-11D7-81CA-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

I keep getting false with this regEx. I'm trying to pick up:
"web search for Perl regular expressions" with this handler

Any ideas what is wrong or what to try?

on mouseUp
   local tagSet, stopTag
   put "Do a <perl>web search for Perl regular expressions</perl> 
tutorials," into myVar
   put "^<perl> (.*) (</perl>)" into regEx
   put matchText(myVar, regEx, tagSet, stopTag) into bbYes
   put tagSet into tElement
   put bbYes
   answer  tElement
end mouseUp

Mark



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Jul 25 15:49:07 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri Jul 25 15:49:07 2003
Subject: RE .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <200307252005.h6PK5Wb74663@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
References: <200307252005.h6PK5Wb74663@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <3F219580.2090203@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/25/03 6:05 PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

> Nope - uninstalling and re-installing doesn't reassociate the files
> either. Looks like it's time for a bug report...

Before you do that, have you tried using "Install-Uninstall programs" in 
the control panels to remove winRAR (if it is in there) and Rev? Once 
you've uninstalled both, then reinstall Revolution.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 25 15:55:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 25 15:55:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <83213ECA-BEE0-11D7-81CA-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <460F772E-BEE1-11D7-AF0D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 02:42 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>   put "Do a <perl>web search for Perl regular expressions</perl> 
> tutorials," into myVar
>   put "^<perl> (.*) (</perl>)" into regEx
                 ^    ^
To start with...
You have spaces.

Dar Scott




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 25 15:57:17 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 25 15:57:17 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <83213ECA-BEE0-11D7-81CA-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <50A023F9-BEE1-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 02:42  PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>
>   put "Do a <perl>web search for Perl regular expressions</perl> 
> tutorials," into myVar
>   put "^<perl> (.*) (</perl>)" into regEx
>   put matchText(myVar, regEx, tagSet, stopTag) into bbYes
>

1) whitespace matters in regex
2) "^" anchors to beginning of the input string-

try put "<perl>(.*)(</perl>)" into regEx


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Fri Jul 25 16:31:02 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Fri Jul 25 16:31:02 2003
Subject: RE .rev file association issues
Message-ID: <200307252124.h6PLORY97498@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Unfortunately, I don't have WinRAR on the machine that I am trying this on.

I even tried deleting the Registry Keys for .rev and then reinstalling...still no luck.

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: "J. Landman Gay"
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:39:28
>
>On 7/25/03 6:05 PM, Edwin Gore wrote:
>
>> Nope - uninstalling and re-installing doesn't
>reassociate the files
>> either. Looks like it's time for a bug report...
>
>Before you do that, have you tried using
>"Install-Uninstall programs" in 
>the control panels to remove winRAR (if it is in
>there) and Rev? Once 
>you've uninstalled both, then reinstall Revolution.
>
>
>-- 
>Jacqueline Landman Gay 	|    
>jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>HyperActive Software		|    
>http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 25 16:52:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 25 16:52:02 2003
Subject: The Message Box no-action bug solved
In-Reply-To: <CFBC4FF7-BDEB-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>
Message-ID: <374C7500-BEE9-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 09:30  AM, WIlliam Griffin wrote:
>
> That was a frightening prospect, this project is getting bigger by the 
> minute.
> It's a full blown 3D game development application and my first app.

William, just curious - are you rending 3D graphics within the 
Revolution environment?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Fri Jul 25 16:59:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Fri Jul 25 16:59:01 2003
Subject: moving images between stacks
Message-ID: <200307252151.h6PLpfu05519@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

I'm working on my routine to update settings files again, and I have run into a problem.

The old settings file has 5 images in it, that are later exported out to image files. The user can customize these, so the contents of the image might be the original pasted in images that I put in there, or they might be references to an external file.

When the new settings file is created, it has the defaults for these images pasted into it as well. What I want to do is take the images from the old settings file, and put them into the iamge file with the same name in the new settings file.

Both files are stacks. The old file that I am testing with has the image "default" set to a reference to a file on disk.

I have tried everything I can thing of...

put image "default" of card 1 of stack "old" \
into image "default" of card 1 of stack "new"

Doesn't work, and in fact clears the images, though they are still there, they have no picture in them - they are empty, transparent objects.

set the imagedata of image "default" of card 1 of \ stack "new" to the imagedata of image "default" of \
card 1 of stack "old"

Doesn't work either - the images in the new file are still the default ones.

I'm at a loss. I know that I could copy/paste/position to bruteforce this, but there must be something more elegant...


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Jul 25 17:24:02 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri Jul 25 17:24:02 2003
Subject: moving images between stacks
In-Reply-To: <200307252151.h6PLpfu05519@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCGEJAFMAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Edwin,

make sure both images are the same width and height, then:

set the imagedata of img "new" to the imagedata of img "old"

--Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Edwin Gore
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 7:52 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: moving images between stacks
> 
> 
> I'm working on my routine to update settings files again, and I 
> have run into a problem.
> 
> The old settings file has 5 images in it, that are later exported 
> out to image files. The user can customize these, so the contents 
> of the image might be the original pasted in images that I put in 
> there, or they might be references to an external file.
> 
> When the new settings file is created, it has the defaults for 
> these images pasted into it as well. What I want to do is take 
> the images from the old settings file, and put them into the 
> iamge file with the same name in the new settings file.
> 
> Both files are stacks. The old file that I am testing with has 
> the image "default" set to a reference to a file on disk.
> 
> I have tried everything I can thing of...
> 
> put image "default" of card 1 of stack "old" \
> into image "default" of card 1 of stack "new"
> 
> Doesn't work, and in fact clears the images, though they are 
> still there, they have no picture in them - they are empty, 
> transparent objects.
> 
> set the imagedata of image "default" of card 1 of \ stack "new" 
> to the imagedata of image "default" of \
> card 1 of stack "old"
> 
> Doesn't work either - the images in the new file are still the 
> default ones.
> 
> I'm at a loss. I know that I could copy/paste/position to 
> bruteforce this, but there must be something more elegant...
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Jul 25 17:29:21 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri Jul 25 17:29:21 2003
Subject: moving images between stacks
In-Reply-To: <200307252151.h6PLpfu05519@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <0352A99A-BEEE-11D7-A8FB-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Edwin,

> ...
> I have tried everything I can thing of...
>
> put image "default" of card 1 of stack "old" ...

This is the referenced image?

> into image "default" of card 1 of stack "new"

And you want a copy in this image?

Then try this:

put url("binfile:" & the filename of img "default" of cd 1 of stack 
"old")\
       into image "default" of card 1 of stack "new"

You cannot "put" a referenced image into another one :-)

Hope that helps.


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 25 17:32:02 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri Jul 25 17:32:02 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <50A023F9-BEE1-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <A19CFD10-BEEE-11D7-81CA-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

Alex, Dar,

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 01:48  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> 1) whitespace matters in regex
> 2) "^" anchors to beginning of the input string-
>
> try put "<perl>(.*)(</perl>)" into regEx

The docs for matchText use this and it works:

matchText(myVar,"^From: (.*) <(.+ at .+)>",userName,userAddress)

When I use "<perl>(.*)(</perl>)"  for regEx I get True.

So it works great. If this optimizes in a repeat loop faster than my 
offset() repeat loop handler, and I'll bet it does, then I can use it 
for single extractions where there is only one possible instance of a 
tag-set in the text being searched. If there was a regEx parameter for 
after a certain point for matchText(), like there is in offset(), then 
I could drop using the offset() handler. I wonder if offSet() has a way 
of incorporating regEx into it.

  There is something funny about all this. Several years ago someone 
tried to tell me about using Perl regEx to do what I was doing. I 
didn't think there was a way to do it in Director so I forgot about it. 
Now it comes back several years later and it does work better, in Rev.

Thanks,

Mark




From edgore at shinra.com  Fri Jul 25 17:45:02 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Fri Jul 25 17:45:02 2003
Subject: moving images between stacks
Message-ID: <200307252237.h6PMbYm15553@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Chipp,

Both of the images are the same width and height.

The transcript I am using is:

set the imagedata of image "default" to the imagedata of image "default" of card 1 of stack fromFile

fromFile is the name of the old stack, and the new stack is set as the defaultstack, and I am on the card where the images are. What I now get is a black image in the new stack. The behavior I was getting earlier was because I had a typo in the second imagedata (it read imagesata)


>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: "Chipp Walters"
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:15:29
>
>Edwin,
>
>make sure both images are the same width and
>height, then:
>
>set the imagedata of img "new" to the imagedata of
>img "old"
>
>--Chipp
>


From themacguy at macosx.com  Fri Jul 25 18:06:01 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Fri Jul 25 18:06:01 2003
Subject: OT - What is a computer programmer
In-Reply-To: <200307252127.RAA05124@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A24DA5A4-BEF3-11D7-B293-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Agreed. For example:

"The only external test is time.  Over time, beautiful things tend to 
thrive, and ugly things tend to get discarded."

In the American automobile industry, ugly things tend to get repeated. 
As evidence of this I suggest the Pontiac Aztek 
(http://www.pontiac.com/aztek/index.jsp?source=hmlnav) which is the AMC 
Pacer of the 21st century. (http://www.amcpacer.com/)

*grin*

On Friday, Jul 25, 2003, at 15:27 America/Denver, Alex Rice wrote:

> This is an interesting read and may interest a lot of RR users.
> http://www.paulgraham.com/hp.html



From bob at ashford.ca  Fri Jul 25 18:11:01 2003
From: bob at ashford.ca (Robert J. Earp)
Date: Fri Jul 25 18:11:01 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030725153823.021bdc90@mail.ashford.ca>

This is a coincidence Gary as I just spent a number of very frustrating 
hours trying to do the same thing.

The good news is that I did manage to do it, the bad news is that (although 
it's still working), I'm not sure if I can remember the exact process I 
ended up doing.  You see, I was in the UK when I was working on it, and the 
weather was unseasonably hot, and the beer was enticing, and the girls 
seemed to be trying desperately to remove all but essential clothing to 
remain cool, and...........  well you get the picture.

If I remember correctly, from Windows Explorer I went into the Tools:Folder 
Options:File Types, scrolled down to REV entry and deleted it. (It was 
associated with WinRAR as with your system)  I then clicked on the New 
button and created a REV entry and tried to associate it with the RunRev 
application, but it didn't.  I then clicked on the Advanced button, and 
then the Edit button, which opens an Edit File Type dialogue box where I 
could type in an Action of  "open" (minus quotes), and the full path of the 
RunRev app in the "Application used to perform action" box.

Clicking on the OK button takes you back to the Edit File Type dialogue 
box, where you can select the icon to use for the file association.  I just 
used the RunRev one found in the RunRev application folder.

Having said all of that, I'm sure some bright spark will let us know it's 
just a case of editing the Registry !!

Bloody Windoze eh!!

best, Bob...





Robert J. Earp - Ashford Training Technologies
18059 21A Avenue, South Surrey, British Columbia, Canada.  V3S 9V7
T:(604) 541 1662  Cel: (604) 612 6688 Fx: (604) 541 1686









From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 25 18:16:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 25 18:16:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <A19CFD10-BEEE-11D7-81CA-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F6DC0769-BEF4-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 04:23  PM, Mark Brownell wrote:
> If this optimizes in a repeat loop faster than my offset() repeat loop 
> handler, and I'll bet it does, then I can use it for single 
> extractions where there is only one possible instance of a tag-set in 
> the text being searched.

Sounds promising. You can also match without knowing the tag expected, 
using backreferences:

   put "asdf <Sometag>qwertasdsay</someTag> zxcv" into tStr
   put "(?i)<(\w+)>(.+)</\1>" into tRxp
   -- or put "(?i)<(\w+)>([^<>]+)</\1>" into tRxp
   get matchText(tStr, tRxp, tMatch1, tMatch2)
   put tMatch1, tMatch2
   -- says
   -- Sometag,qwertasdsay

In that example the \1 refers to the 1st capture (tMatch1), and uses it 
later in the pattern.

>  There is something funny about all this. Several years ago someone 
> tried to tell me about using Perl regEx to do what I was doing. I 
> didn't think there was a way to do it in Director so I forgot about 
> it. Now it comes back several years later and it does work better, in 
> Rev.

Cool!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 25 18:31:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 25 18:31:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <A19CFD10-BEEE-11D7-81CA-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0D1E35B8-BEF7-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 04:23  PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> If this optimizes in a repeat loop faster than my offset() repeat loop 
> handler, and I'll bet it does,...

It might not be faster because each call to the regex engine with 
matchText() or the other functions, will cause another parse and 
compile of the regex string by the pcre engine. Unless RR is doing some 
kind of pattern caching, which would be really neat, or worth a 
feature-request.

But using regex you might get more work done for each loop- or 
something.

Perl has a good feature for optimizing regex calls in a loop like this. 
The "o" modifier tells Perl to compile the regular expression 1 time 
only, not every loop iteration.

while(<>){ if(/something/o) { ... }; } # perl

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Fri Jul 25 18:37:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Jul 25 18:37:01 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030725153823.021bdc90@mail.ashford.ca>
Message-ID: <ED2CC19B-BEF7-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 04:55  PM, Robert J. Earp wrote:

> If I remember correctly, from Windows Explorer I went into the 
> Tools:Folder Options:File Types, scrolled down to REV entry and 
> deleted it. (It was associated with WinRAR as with your system)

Is Revolution supposed to register it on installation? On my 
Windows2000 box w/ Rev 2.0.1 installed, there is no REV entry in the 
File Types tab of the Folder Options dialog.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 25 18:40:02 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 25 18:40:02 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <A19CFD10-BEEE-11D7-81CA-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3E3323F4-BEF8-11D7-AF0D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 04:23 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> There is something funny about all this. Several years ago someone  
> tried to tell me about using Perl regEx to do what I was doing. I  
> didn't think there was a way to do it in Director so I forgot about  
> it. Now it comes back several years later and it does work better, in  
> Rev.

Eventually, as we grow in reach and the tool becomes more right, we are  
pleasantly surprised to find the right tool within reach.

Dar Scott
************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 25 18:45:02 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 25 18:45:02 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <ED2CC19B-BEF7-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <14CDD05A-BEF9-11D7-AF0D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 05:30 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> Is Revolution supposed to register it on installation?

That would be cool!  A give a choice if there is a conflict with  
another.

Dar Scott
************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From jhurley at infostations.com  Fri Jul 25 19:00:02 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Fri Jul 25 19:00:02 2003
Subject: Clicking on linked text sends a mouseLeave message?
In-Reply-To: <200307251851.OAA31658@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307251851.OAA31658@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bb476cdb33c7@[66.81.128.173]>

>
>Message: 15
>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:18:02 +0200
>From: Wilhelm Sanke <sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Subject: Re: Clicking on linked text sends a mouseLeave message?
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:



>(snip)



>there is still another simple solution. Leave the mouseup handler of
>your first script (of Thursday) exactly as it is. Delete the mouseleave
>handler.
>Place a transparent field on top of your "Help" field. Put the following
>script into the transparent field and put the mouseleave handler here,
>too:
>
>"on mouseUp
>   put the mouseloc into MLoc
>   lock screen
>   hide me
>   click at MLoc
>   show me
>   unlock screen
>end mouseUp
>
>on mouseLeave
>   set the points of graphic "arrow" to ""
>end mouseLeave"
>
>Using "lock screen" could be also left out, it only prevents the
>linktext to change colors.
>
>I have used the technique of clicking at a transparent field and then
>hiding it for a moment on several occassions, last time in a game stack
>I sent to User Contributions three weeks ago, but which has not yet made
>it to the website.
>
>Regards,
>
>Wilhelm Sanke


Wilhelm,

Thanks for the suggestion. Clever solution.

In case you didn't catch my response to Jacqueline, it turns out that 
there is an even simpler solution in my particular problem. Just 
change the mouseLeave from:

on mouseLeave
  set the points of graphic "arrow" to ""
end mouseLeave

To the following:

on mouseLeave
     if the mouseLoc is not within the rect of me then set the points 
of graphic "arrow" to ""
end mouseLeave

This would appear at first to be redundant. That is, if there is a 
mouseLeave message, the mouse would not be with the rectangle. But, 
as Jacqueline pointed out, it can be in the rect and yet leave when 
the arrow graphic is created at the mouseLoc and the mouse gets a 
mouseLeave message.  Apparently, however, it (the engine) still 
thinks the mouse is within the field rectangle and so doesn't execute 
the conditional.

So this handler has the desired effect: It sets the graphic points to 
empty only when the mouse actually leaves the field rectangle.

Jim


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Jul 25 19:02:10 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Jul 25 19:02:10 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <ED2CC19B-BEF7-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB4710DD.31500%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> Is Revolution supposed to register it on installation?

Maybe another good question would be:

Is Microsoft ever going to show an interest in managing this issue of file
associations as Apple does?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Fri Jul 25 19:05:03 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Fri Jul 25 19:05:03 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <000101c352d8$13000d90$f600000a@porthos> 
References: <000101c352d8$13000d90$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <20030725235823.60405.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Gary Rathbone writes: 

> This in an annoying distraction which I'm sure will have an easy answer. 
> 
> When I save a rev stack I use (the suggested) .rev extension. 
> 
> However I also use WinRAR which according to filext.com uses the .rev
> extension (with a few other packages) as its own. This means WinRAR 'own' my
> Rev stacks, when I double click it tries to open WinRAR. 
> 
> Using XP I can usually change this file association. However a right click
> on the stack and a click on the "Change..." button doesn't allow me to
> select "revolution"; its not listed.

On WIN XP pro, in less than 10 steps: 

1. In the directory list, right click the stack name
  the context menu is displayed.
2. On the context menu, select "open with"
  the sub-menu is displayed
3. on the sub-menu, click "choose program"
  the "Open with" dialog is displayed
4. on the "Open with" dialog, click the Browse button
  a scondary "Open With..." dialog is displayed
5. Browse through the directory to find the Revolution.exe file and select 
it. (Probably c:\Program Files\Revolution x.x.x\Revoluton.exe )
6. click Open
  the "Open with" dialog is dispalyed with Revolution blah-blah selected in 
the list of applications.
7. select "always use the selected program to open this kind of file"
8. click OK
  the dialog closes and your stack is launched 

Now .rev will be associated with Revoluton. 

miscdas 

> 
> My first question is "How to I associate .rev to revolution?" 
> 
> As there is only a fixed number of three letter file extensions. How does a
> developer, considering cross platform data files for their owns stacks,
> provide or register/'own' a unique or non conflicting filetype.  
> 
> Thanks in advance, 
> 
> Gary Rathbone 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
 


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Jul 25 19:38:02 2003
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri Jul 25 19:38:02 2003
Subject: [OT] What is a computer programmer?
In-Reply-To: <38AD3DB4-BEDA-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <38AD3DB4-BEDA-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <160120047849.20030725173041@ahsoftware.net>

Alex-

Thanks for a very entertaining read (if you'll excuse my nouning that
verb).

My working definition of programming is "getting a programming
language to do something it wasn't designed to do"; i.e., if the
language I'm using already has a "print" function I don't need to code
one myself. If it doesn't have a "print floating-point" function and I
need one then I'll have to write some code.

...and it's a pretty sure bet that no language I use is going to have
an "encrypt this financial information record and send it out the
given serial port" function...

-Mark Wieder

Friday, July 25, 2003, 12:57:29 PM, you wrote:

AR> This is an interesting read and may interest a lot of RR users.
AR> http://www.paulgraham.com/hp.html




From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Jul 25 19:43:03 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri Jul 25 19:43:03 2003
Subject: moving images between stacks
In-Reply-To: <200307252237.h6PMbYm15553@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIGEGLCPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Edwin,

I can successfully:

set the imagedata of img 1 of stack "Untitled 2" to the imagedata of img 1 of stack "Untitled 1"

I've tested it on RR 1.5 and 2.0

-Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Edwin Gore
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 8:38 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: RE: RE: moving images between stacks
> 
> 
> Chipp,
> 
> Both of the images are the same width and height.
> 
> The transcript I am using is:
> 
> set the imagedata of image "default" to the imagedata of image 
> "default" of card 1 of stack fromFile
> 
> fromFile is the name of the old stack, and the new stack is set 
> as the defaultstack, and I am on the card where the images are. 
> What I now get is a black image in the new stack. The behavior I 
> was getting earlier was because I had a typo in the second 
> imagedata (it read imagesata)
> 
> 
> >----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
> >From: "Chipp Walters"
> >To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:15:29
> >
> >Edwin,
> >
> >make sure both images are the same width and
> >height, then:
> >
> >set the imagedata of img "new" to the imagedata of
> >img "old"
> >
> >--Chipp
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 




From tuviah at runrev.com  Fri Jul 25 20:00:02 2003
From: tuviah at runrev.com (Tuviah Snyder)
Date: Fri Jul 25 20:00:02 2003
Subject: : RE: RE: moving images between stacks
References: <200307252346.TAA10919@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <003901c35310$676573b0$0100a8c0@user>

>set the imagedata of img 1 of stack "Untitled 2" to the imagedata of img 1
of stack "Untitled 1"
Better to use

put image 1 of stack "untitled 1" into image 1 of stack "untitled 2"

this preserves the compression, alphadata and mask, and will work with
images of any size.

Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Jul 25 20:13:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri Jul 25 20:13:01 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <BB4710DD.31500%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIAEGNCPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

They already do... Se miscdas's post..


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Richard
> Gaskin
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 6:53 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: .rev file association issues
>
>
> Alex Rice wrote:
>
> > Is Revolution supposed to register it on installation?
>
> Maybe another good question would be:
>
> Is Microsoft ever going to show an interest in managing this issue of file
> associations as Apple does?
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 25 20:25:01 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri Jul 25 20:25:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <0D1E35B8-BEF7-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <6F73F11F-BF07-11D7-A2ED-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 04:23  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>> If this optimizes in a repeat loop faster than my offset() repeat 
>> loop handler, and I'll bet it does,...
>
> It might not be faster because each call to the regex engine with 
> matchText() or the other functions, will cause another parse and 
> compile of the regex string by the pcre engine. Unless RR is doing 
> some kind of pattern caching, which would be really neat, or worth a 
> feature-request.

How true, testing this I get:

   "perlRegEx = 13,  PNLP = 3" using:

on mouseUp
   put "Do a <perl>web search for Perl regular expressions</perl> 
tutorials," into myVar
   put "<perl>(.*)(</perl>)" into regEx

   -- perlRegEx
   put the milliseconds into tStartTime
   repeat with x = 1 to 500
     put matchText(myVar, regEx, tElement) into bbYes
   end repeat
   put (the milliseconds - tStartTime) into ptTime
   answer tElement

   -- PNLP
   put the milliseconds into tStartTime
   repeat with i = 1 to 500
     put offset("<perl>", myVar) into tNumA
     put offset("</perl>", myVar) into tNumB
     put char (tNumA + 6) to (tNumB - 1) of myVar into tElement
   end repeat
   put (the milliseconds - tStartTime) into otTime
   answer tElement

   -- show results
   answer "perlRegEx = "  & ptTime   & ", PNLP = "  & otTime
end mouseUp

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From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Jul 25 20:32:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri Jul 25 20:32:01 2003
Subject: : RE: RE: moving images between stacks
In-Reply-To: <003901c35310$676573b0$0100a8c0@user>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEGOCPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Good point Tuviah!

Note Edwin, you can also:

on mouseUp
  answer file "Pick an image:"
  if it <> "" then
      put url("binfile:" & it) into image "myinternalimage"
  end if
end mouseUp

which allows you to set the imagedata of an image (and alphadata, too!) from
a file (or URL) outside of Revolution. The target image DOES NOT have to
have the same width and height.

This is also a way to create a 'non-referenced' image from a referenced one.

For instance, say you have an image "test" with it's filename set to
"C:/hello.png"

Then, you can

put URL ("binfile:" & "C:/hello.png") into image "test"

and it will now 'set' the imagedata for that image.

best,

Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Tuviah Snyder
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 7:54 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: : RE: RE: moving images between stacks
>
>
> >set the imagedata of img 1 of stack "Untitled 2" to the
> imagedata of img 1
> of stack "Untitled 1"
> Better to use
>
> put image 1 of stack "untitled 1" into image 1 of stack "untitled 2"
>
> this preserves the compression, alphadata and mask, and will work with
> images of any size.
>
> Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
> Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From myoung at ieee.org  Fri Jul 25 20:44:02 2003
From: myoung at ieee.org (Michael Young)
Date: Fri Jul 25 20:44:02 2003
Subject: mailing list vs newsgroup
In-Reply-To: <200307251311.JAA20816@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <MLEMJPHEDAKECPFFPCKLEEMJCBAA.myoung@ieee.org>

Hello,

First off let me say, I have only recently started working with RR and I
like what I see. I also have been impressed (overwhelmed?) with the mailing
list activity. The people on this list are obviously very helpful and
enthusiatic about RR.

One point I have seen discussed is lack of publicity for RR. I tend to
agree. I stumbled on the product because it was on a recent cover disk for
PC Plus then PC Plus published a tutorial on RR. I liked the idea about
getting a great RR book with examples onto the bookstore shelves. It really
would help. Also along the lines of increasing RR exposure wouldn't it help
to have a usenet newsgroup so that people might stumble upon the product
while doing a Google Group search? I don't mean to offend anyone with the
newsgroup idea, I merely offer it as a suggestion.

Michael



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 25 21:03:02 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 25 21:03:02 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <6F73F11F-BF07-11D7-A2ED-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <61C7DA28-BF0C-11D7-AF0D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 07:21 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>   "perlRegEx = 13,  PNLP = 3" using:

>   put "<perl>(.*)(</perl>)" into regEx

I wonder if--by one making a few assumptions--this can be optimized.

Dar Scott



From kkaufman at snet.net  Fri Jul 25 21:18:01 2003
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Fri Jul 25 21:18:01 2003
Subject: RE .rev file association issues
Message-ID: <6333AA6A-BF0E-11D7-A0D8-0003936D1F12@snet.net>

I remember back when I was using "Oracle Media Objects" (which required 
distribution of a "runtime player" along with stacks) I would use a 
utility called "RegEdit" to produce a script that, when run, would 
alter the Windows registry to associate the stacks with the player.  
This was Windows 95, however, and I no longer remember the details of 
the process.  Maybe RegEdit still works, has been updated, or perhaps 
there is a newer equivalent for WinXP.
Perhaps Rev is capable of initializing such a script on its own, or 
perhaps could even be used to (carefully) directly modify the registry. 
  I also seem to recall that direct manipulation of the Windows registry 
had been "discouraged" by Microsoft in favor of another newer method of 
file association.  Unfortunately the name of this newer method escapes 
me...something about  ".ini" files, perhaps?

-KK



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Jul 25 22:12:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Jul 25 22:12:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] A Simple Primer Primer
Message-ID: <EED5DCF1-BF15-11D7-AF0D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

I have created a stack that I am using as the basis of my primers (and  
notebooks and so on).  It is in the form of a primer that tells how to  
use it as such a basis.  It is simply a little booklet of perhaps a  
classic HyperCard style that one can thumb through and (presumably) try  
out live examples.  The script callouts are semiautomatic.  The links  
update for all pages visited.  The primer is designed to be divided  
into sections with a section contents page and a primer contents page  
(all manual at this point).  The stack script is empty and available.   
There is real estate available on the navigation bar.  I'm taking  
advantage of the last for my pending messages meter on my slowly coming  
Primer on Message Mechanics.

I am making it available to all:

http://www.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html

This is version 1.0, dated July 25, 2003.  It is with trepidation that  
I bless it with a non-zero primary version.  There is no easy way to  
update primers made with this, so if you decide you want to create  
something with it, you should get the latest version at the time you  
start.

A few people have seen it and have noted these shortcomings:  The  
contents pages are not automatically updated.  There is no easy way for  
the user to take notes except to add to the primer.  There should be a  
quick way to get to any page by name rather than one having to go back  
to a contents page.  The page transitions can be annoying.  A  
standalone created for Mac OS 9 does not quit when the stack is closed.

I hope this is helpful.

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 26 00:14:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 26 00:14:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <61C7DA28-BF0C-11D7-AF0D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <F8024758-BF26-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 07:56  PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 07:21 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:
>
>>   "perlRegEx = 13,  PNLP = 3" using:
>
>>   put "<perl>(.*)(</perl>)" into regEx
>
> I wonder if--by one making a few assumptions--this can be optimized.

The ".*" is the most general pattern and so it's the worst, performance 
wise. By restricting the pattern a bit we can speed it up. Using Mark's 
test case with "<perl>([^<]+)(</perl>)" the run-times are almost 
identical.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 26 00:20:02 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat Jul 26 00:20:02 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <F8024758-BF26-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <39219C98-BF28-11D7-8AEB-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 10:06  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 07:56  PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>
>>
>> On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 07:21 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:
>>
>>>   "perlRegEx = 13,  PNLP = 3" using:
>>
>>>   put "<perl>(.*)(</perl>)" into regEx
>>
>> I wonder if--by one making a few assumptions--this can be optimized.
>
> The ".*" is the most general pattern and so it's the worst, 
> performance wise. By restricting the pattern a bit we can speed it up. 
> Using Mark's test case with "<perl>([^<]+)(</perl>)" the run-times are 
> almost identical.
>
> Alex Rice

Ten seconds ago I sent this to Dar off-list:

> What do you mean? I don't get it.
>
> Mark

Tag teams...



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 26 00:27:00 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat Jul 26 00:27:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <F8024758-BF26-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <2868B382-BF29-11D7-8AEB-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 10:06  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>>>   "perlRegEx = 13,  PNLP = 3" using:
>>
>>>   put "<perl>(.*)(</perl>)" into regEx
>>
>> I wonder if--by one making a few assumptions--this can be optimized.
>
> The ".*" is the most general pattern and so it's the worst, 
> performance wise. By restricting the pattern a bit we can speed it up. 
> Using Mark's test case with "<perl>([^<]+)(</perl>)" the run-times are 
> almost identical.

now I get this for 5000 repeats:

perlRegEx = 29,  PNLP = 28

cool!
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From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 26 00:35:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 26 00:35:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <2868B382-BF29-11D7-8AEB-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <FA4F6620-BF29-11D7-AF0D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 11:22 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> cool!

Remember, that is a slightly different pattern recognizer.  It will not 
work (as expected or hoped) with < in between as might be the case in a 
comparison expression or with enclosed elements.

Dar




From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 26 00:46:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 26 00:46:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <6F73F11F-BF07-11D7-A2ED-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <850F515F-BF2B-11D7-AF0D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 07:21 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>   "perlRegEx = 13,  PNLP = 3" using:

regex should be timed on failures, too.

Dar Scott



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Jul 26 01:15:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat Jul 26 01:15:01 2003
Subject: moving images between stacks
In-Reply-To: <200307252127.RAA05084@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB476A05.1F0F%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Edwin,

> From: "Edwin Gore" <edgore at shinra.com>
> Subject: moving images between stacks
> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:51:41 -0700
 
> Both files are stacks. The old file that I am testing with has the image
> "default" set to a reference to a file on disk.
> 
> I have tried everything I can thing of...
----------snip
> set the imagedata of image "default" of card 1 of \ stack "new" to the
> imagedata of image "default" of \card 1 of stack "old"
----------
1) "default" is a Rev keyword, so change the names.
2) Get rid of the backslashes.

HTH,
Ken N.



From jeanne at runrev.com  Sat Jul 26 01:19:01 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat Jul 26 01:19:01 2003
Subject: Script Editor Menu Reference not clickable
In-Reply-To: <200307190303.h6J332iY020201@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <v03130314bb47cb7efd56@[10.0.1.2]>

At 8:03PM -0700 7/18/03, Howard Bornstein wrote:
>>When I try to access the docs for the Script Editor Menu Reference, the the
>>cursor does not turn to browse over the links.  For example, the "File menu
>>(Script Editor)" type links are not clickable.
>
>I concur. These links are not working.
>
>Should I bugzilla this?

I'd already noticed this and it's on my to-fix list, but go ahead and
bugzilla it if you would like to track the bug's progress. (In general,
"when in doubt, bugzilla it" is not a bad rule to follow - provided you
have a clear and reproducible report, of course, as in this case.)

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Sat Jul 26 01:24:02 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat Jul 26 01:24:02 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02
In-Reply-To: <20030723170919.83055.qmail@web20418.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <v03130315bb47cc472c5f@[10.0.1.2]>

At 10:09 AM -0700 7/23/03, Chris Sheffield wrote:
>Where is this version 2.02 that everyone keeps talking
>about?  Is it available yet?

The update isn't available yet for download, but it should be up in a few
days and will be announced here when it is. The change in the product
lineup has meant some extra time in accommodating updates for current
users. Apologies for the delay.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Jul 26 01:27:44 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat Jul 26 01:27:44 2003
Subject: No blend for non-Mac OS'?
In-Reply-To: <200307252346.TAA10893@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB476C6C.1F10%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

I have an image over a field which is supposed to look like a translucent
cover. I can set the ink to 'blend' on my Mac which results in the general
look I want, but apparently I can't do this with other OS platforms. Is
there a workaround for, say, Windows '98 or XP?

Ken N.



From tuviah at runrev.com  Sat Jul 26 02:47:01 2003
From: tuviah at runrev.com (Tuviah Snyder)
Date: Sat Jul 26 02:47:01 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1667 - 16 msgs
References: <200307260526.BAA19230@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c35349$48d14c60$0100a8c0@user>

> > It might not be faster because each call to the regex engine with 
> > matchText() or the other functions, will cause another parse and 
> > compile of the regex string by the pcre engine. Unless RR is doing 
> > some kind of pattern caching, which would be really neat, or worth a 
> > feature-request.
It does. It caches the 20 most recent regex expressions.

Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 26 02:58:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 26 02:58:02 2003
Subject: regex cache
In-Reply-To: <000d01c35349$48d14c60$0100a8c0@user>
Message-ID: <E8F6C600-BF3D-11D7-AB84-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 01:41  AM, Tuviah Snyder wrote:

> It does. It caches the 20 most recent regex expressions.

Excellent! That's more convenient than the "o" modifier that Perl has. 
Thanks Scott, Tuviah & other developers!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jul 26 03:01:02 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Jul 26 03:01:02 2003
Subject: mailing list vs newsgroup
In-Reply-To: <MLEMJPHEDAKECPFFPCKLEEMJCBAA.myoung@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <BB47818C.3153B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Michael Young wrote:

> Also along the lines of increasing RR exposure wouldn't it help
> to have a usenet newsgroup so that people might stumble upon the product
> while doing a Google Group search? I don't mean to offend anyone with the
> newsgroup idea, I merely offer it as a suggestion.

I like Usenet too, but you and I may be in a minority. ;)  Spam and
aggression seem to be two reasons Usenet has fallen out of favor.

There is comp.sys.mac.hypercard which sometimes serves as a general xTalk
discussion group.

But if the audience warrants it I'd subscribe.  Let me know if you start
one.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From lale at phenotyping.com  Sat Jul 26 04:49:00 2003
From: lale at phenotyping.com (Lars Lewejohann)
Date: Sat Jul 26 04:49:00 2003
Subject: CGI tutorial for denser than dummy
In-Reply-To: <E8642194-BED0-11D7-A503-000502F78A80@comcast.net>
References: <E8642194-BED0-11D7-A503-000502F78A80@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <3F224CE2.4070808@phenotyping.com>

Hi James,

The CGI stuff is badly neglected. Here are some
resources (you might have already come across):

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/articles/tipoftheweek/6.html
http://www.navaching.com/pagem.html

Here is simple cgi-stack doing an image rotation. (You can see it at work
at http://www.diereini.de ). This cgi is quite similar to the first example
from the "tip of the week" but instead of copying the image to a new file
it generates html output with a random picture. I submitted this three 
weeks
ago to the runrev user-contributions, but they didn't take it. Well, it 
might be
to simple for inclusion on their site...

Cut here and paste it to a texteditor and save it in UNIX mode-->
#!Linux --This assumes that you downloaded the LINUX engine and placed 
it into your cgi-bin folder
--A simple image rotation cgi
--This stack assumes that you have a domain with a tree structure like:
--/cgi-bin (your CGIs and the RR engine)
--/images/rotation (your pictures for rotation)
--save this file (in UNIX mode!) as "rotation.cgi" to your "cgi-bin"
--CHMOD the "rotation.cgi" to 755 (="-rwxr-xr-x")
--in your browser type "http://www.yourdomain.com/cgi-bin/rotation.cgi"
--Have fun! Lars Lewejohann

 
on startup
 set the defaultFolder to "../images/rotation" --prior to this the 
default folder was (..)/cgi-bin
 put the files into myContents  --now all image names are stored into 
"myContents"
 set the itemDelimiter to " "   --contents of "myContents" are separated 
by a blank...
--now make path to a random pict:
 put "http://www.yourdomain.com/images/rotation/" & any line of 
myContents into ARandomPict
--now prepare the html-code for output and store it into "buffer":
 put "<html><head><title>Title of your page</title></head><body 
bgcolor=" &QUOTE &"#ffff99" &QUOTE  &"><div align=" &QUOTE &"center" 
&QUOTE &">" after buffer
 put "<img src=" &QUOTE &ARandomPict &QUOTE &">" after buffer
 put "</div></body></html>" after buffer
--write the contents via the put function
 put "Content-Type: text/html" & cr
 put "Content-Length:" && the length of buffer & cr & cr
 put buffer
end startup
<--end cut here

Hope that helps.

Kind regards,

Lars

James Lewes wrote:

> Has anybody on the list go a cgi tutorial for denser than dummy.
>
> James
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From hansydelm at ntlworld.com  Sat Jul 26 05:00:00 2003
From: hansydelm at ntlworld.com (Hans Ydelm)
Date: Sat Jul 26 05:00:00 2003
Subject: mailing list vs newsgroup
In-Reply-To: <MLEMJPHEDAKECPFFPCKLEEMJCBAA.myoung@ieee.org>
References: <MLEMJPHEDAKECPFFPCKLEEMJCBAA.myoung@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <1059213258.1292.32.camel@linux104>

Hi Michael,

I can't agree more. I also stumbled on RR which came with my Linux
Format magazine. I have been using Glade and stared to use WinGlade
since the world still resolves around windows. Luckily I found RR and I
can now develop simple Windows and Linux GUI's with the click of a
button :-) What I do find is that the interface to other languages and
application is not that strong. The open process and shell commands
seems to be a bit temperamental on windows (at least on my 1.1 version).
What I would like is to develop my application in plain C and my GUI's
in RR. For this I would need to be able to call C routines from a shared
object in RR which I believe is not possible(?)

This is probably the busiest mailing list I subscribe too. Unfortunately
when the volume is too high it is difficult to see the mailing threads
and a newsgroup reader would be much better. 

What about using Gmane (http://gmane.org) to stream this mailinglist to
a newsgroup? I don't know the fine details of this service but they do
provide spam detection. 


Hans.
www.ht-lab.com

 

On Sat, 2003-07-26 at 02:37, Michael Young wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> First off let me say, I have only recently started working with RR and I
> like what I see. I also have been impressed (overwhelmed?) with the mailing
> list activity. The people on this list are obviously very helpful and
> enthusiatic about RR.
> 
> One point I have seen discussed is lack of publicity for RR. I tend to
> agree. I stumbled on the product because it was on a recent cover disk for
> PC Plus then PC Plus published a tutorial on RR. I liked the idea about
> getting a great RR book with examples onto the bookstore shelves. It really
> would help. Also along the lines of increasing RR exposure wouldn't it help
> to have a usenet newsgroup so that people might stumble upon the product
> while doing a Google Group search? I don't mean to offend anyone with the
> newsgroup idea, I merely offer it as a suggestion.
> 
> Michael
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Sat Jul 26 05:05:00 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Sat Jul 26 05:05:00 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <20030725235823.60405.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c3535c$4d624b90$f600000a@porthos>

Miscdas,

Thanks for this, unfortunately after step 7 nothing changes. I can "select
Revolution", but Rev is not added to any list or options. I can follow this
process for other file types eg .html and it works great.

Meanwhile .rev is now associated with wordpad, which is proving quite
interesting.

Cheers

Gary

> On WIN XP pro, in less than 10 steps:
> 
> 1. In the directory list, right click the stack name
>   the context menu is displayed.
> 2. On the context menu, select "open with"
>   the sub-menu is displayed
> 3. on the sub-menu, click "choose program"
>   the "Open with" dialog is displayed
> 4. on the "Open with" dialog, click the Browse button
>   a scondary "Open With..." dialog is displayed
> 5. Browse through the directory to find the Revolution.exe file and select
> it. (Probably c:\Program Files\Revolution x.x.x\Revoluton.exe )
> 6. click Open
>   the "Open with" dialog is dispalyed with Revolution blah-blah selected
> in
> the list of applications.
> 7. select "always use the selected program to open this kind of file"
> 8. click OK
>   the dialog closes and your stack is launched
> 
> Now .rev will be associated with Revoluton.
> 
> miscdas





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jul 26 05:19:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Jul 26 05:19:01 2003
Subject: mailing list vs newsgroup
In-Reply-To: <1059213258.1292.32.camel@linux104>
Message-ID: <BB47A1D6.3154B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Hans Ydelm wrote:

> Luckily I found RR and I can now develop simple Windows and Linux
> GUI's with the click of a button :-) What I do find is that the
> interface to other languages and application is not that strong.
> The open process and shell commands seems to be a bit temperamental
> on windows (at least on my 1.1 version). What I would like is to
> develop my application in plain C and my GUI's in RR. For this
> I would need to be able to call C routines from a shared
> object in RR which I believe is not possible(?)

Rev supports extensibility through externals, code modules that can be
written in C and plugged in to provide additional functionality.

I couldn't find the example in the Rev installation, but there's one
included in the MetaCard package at:
<http://www.metacard.com/get.html>
 
-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Jul 26 06:02:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat Jul 26 06:02:01 2003
Subject: No blend for non-Mac OS'?
In-Reply-To: <BB476C6C.1F10%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <A531F0A0-BF57-11D7-81D1-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Ken,

> Howdy,
>
> I have an image over a field which is supposed to look like a 
> translucent
> cover. I can set the ink to 'blend' on my Mac which results in the 
> general
> look I want, but apparently I can't do this with other OS platforms. Is
> there a workaround for, say, Windows '98 or XP?

Use the "blendlevel" prop of the image(= degree of opacity :-)

Works with JPG and PNG on all platform...

Hope that helps.

> Ken N.

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Jul 26 06:05:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat Jul 26 06:05:01 2003
Subject: moving images between stacks
In-Reply-To: <BB476A05.1F0F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <18986EC7-BF58-11D7-81D1-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Ken,

>> ...
>> I have tried everything I can thing of...
> ----------snip
>> set the imagedata of image "default" of card 1 of \ stack "new" to the
>> imagedata of image "default" of \card 1 of stack "old"
> ----------
> 1) "default" is a Rev keyword, so change the names.

This is a good idea, but since it is a string here it won't do any harm 
;-)

> 2) Get rid of the backslashes.

I think they were in the original post to indicate the the linebreaks 
do not
apply to the script, and have been modified out of context in the 
replies...

> HTH,
> Ken N.

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From plsntbreez at mac.com  Sat Jul 26 08:47:00 2003
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian K. Maher)
Date: Sat Jul 26 08:47:00 2003
Subject: Newbie - MainStack Question
Message-ID: <9C208854-BF6E-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>

I sent this via the wrong email account so I am resending ...

> Hi Folks,
>
> I am new to Revolution (but have done development for a long time in 
> many languages).
>
> I am trying to understand the best way to design a database 
> application using Revolution.
>
> I have noticed that handlers in the main stack (i.e. in the Stack 
> script) are automatically seen by all sub stacks.
>
> For example, an openStack handler in the main stack will be invoked 
> when a sub stack opens and has no openStack handler of its own.
>
> This is leading me to question whether I should (or want to) use the 
> main stack for anything other than generic handlers that my 
> application needs.  I am thinking about simply making the main stack 
> invisible and using only sub stacks for my applications windows.
>
> Can anyone give me any insights on this?  Am I missing something here?
>
> Thanks, Brian Maher



From kkaufman at snet.net  Sat Jul 26 08:57:01 2003
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Sat Jul 26 08:57:01 2003
Subject: RE .rev file association issues
Message-ID: <18AB7D81-BF70-11D7-AA7D-0003936D1F12@snet.net>

I wrote:
"...Maybe RegEdit still works, has been updated, or perhaps
there is a newer equivalent for WinXP...."

Just to set the record straight:
Regedit has been revised for XP.

-KK



From k.r.hauge at east.uio.no  Sat Jul 26 09:49:01 2003
From: k.r.hauge at east.uio.no (Kjetil =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E5?= Hauge)
Date: Sat Jul 26 09:49:01 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02
In-Reply-To: <200307260527.BAA19322@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307260527.BAA19322@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p05210600bb4841b7e35b@[10.29.0.189]>

>From: "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <jeanne at runrev.com>

[...]

>At 10:09 AM -0700 7/23/03, Chris Sheffield wrote:
>>Where is this version 2.02 that everyone keeps talking
>>about?  Is it available yet?
>
>The update isn't available yet for download, but it should be up in a few
>days and will be announced here when it is. The change in the product
>lineup has meant some extra time in accommodating updates for current
>users. Apologies for the delay.

I'm still a bit confused - on 18 July, Kevin Miller (use-revolution 
digest, Vol 1 #1626) said you "have almost completed 2.1". Is it just 
that you haven't decided yet what number to give the next update, or 
is there a 2.1 update coming shortly after 2.02?
-- 
--- Kjetil R? Hauge, U. of Oslo. Tel. +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140
--- (this msg sent from home, +47/67148424, fax +1/5084372444)


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Jul 26 09:56:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Jul 26 09:56:01 2003
Subject: Newbie - MainStack Question
In-Reply-To: <9C208854-BF6E-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>
References: <9C208854-BF6E-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bb4840b1d8c8@[216.229.107.26]>

>>I have noticed that handlers in the main stack (i.e. in the Stack 
>>script) are automatically seen by all sub stacks.
>>
>>For example, an openStack handler in the main stack will be invoked 
>>when a sub stack opens and has no openStack handler of its own.

Hi Brian,

There are a couple of ways around this:

1.  Put the mainStacks" openStack handler in the script of the first 
card or first background visited when the mainStack is opened, or

2.  Put "if the name of the target is not the name of me then [pass 
openStack/exit openStack]"
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 26 10:03:01 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat Jul 26 10:03:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <FA4F6620-BF29-11D7-AF0D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <A2E2E8FA-BF79-11D7-A3D0-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 10:28  PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> Remember, that is a slightly different pattern recognizer.  It will 
> not work (as expected or hoped) with < in between as might be the case 
> in a comparison expression or with enclosed elements.
>
> Dar

Yes I can see that. It will also not work for MTML because a part of 
one element tag set can begin inside of another element tag set and end 
outside of it in MTML. This was a primary issue while defending off XML 
innovators several years ago when I started experimenting with it. The 
PNLP handler is not effected by this problem, and at this point it is 
still the fastest choice. Where I see an advantage is in some of MTML's 
multimedia handling tag sets that could be easier to script with 
perlRegEx.

Mark
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From plsntbreez at mac.com  Sat Jul 26 10:04:01 2003
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian K. Maher)
Date: Sat Jul 26 10:04:01 2003
Subject: Newbie - MainStack Question
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bb4840b1d8c8@[216.229.107.26]>
Message-ID: <6D9EAB01-BF79-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>

Hi Rob,

On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 10:36  AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>>> I have noticed that handlers in the main stack (i.e. in the Stack 
>>> script) are automatically seen by all sub stacks.
>>>
>>> For example, an openStack handler in the main stack will be invoked 
>>> when a sub stack opens and has no openStack handler of its own.
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> There are a couple of ways around this:
>
> 1.  Put the mainStacks" openStack handler in the script of the first 
> card or first background visited when the mainStack is opened, or
>
> 2.  Put "if the name of the target is not the name of me then [pass 
> openStack/exit openStack]"
>

Wouldn't even be better to avoid these workarounds completely be simply 
using the main stack as a generic routine holder?

What would be the downside to doing this?

Thanks, Brian

P.S. Sorry if I am missing something obvious here.  :-)



From edgore at shinra.com  Sat Jul 26 10:33:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Sat Jul 26 10:33:00 2003
Subject: moving images between stacks
References: <200307252346.TAA10919@www.runrev.com> <003901c35310$676573b0$0100a8c0@user>
Message-ID: <004001c3538a$34349780$6701a8c0@ed>

Okay - I've figured out what I need to do...

I have to change the script in the settings file so that from now on, it
puts the images from disk instead of referencing them, and then I can just
put the images from one stack to another.

Thanks for everyone's help with this!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tuviah Snyder"
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 6:53 PM
Subject: : RE: RE: moving images between stacks


> >set the imagedata of img 1 of stack "Untitled 2" to the imagedata of img
1
> of stack "Untitled 1"
> Better to use
>
> put image 1 of stack "untitled 1" into image 1 of stack "untitled 2"
>
> this preserves the compression, alphadata and mask, and will work with
> images of any size.
>
> Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
> Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Jul 26 10:40:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Jul 26 10:40:01 2003
Subject: Newbie - MainStack Question
In-Reply-To: <6D9EAB01-BF79-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>
References: <6D9EAB01-BF79-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bb484e5a0e6e@[216.229.107.83]>

>Wouldn't even be better to avoid these workarounds completely be 
>simply using the main stack as a generic routine holder?

Brian,

First, I don't consider placing the mainStack's preOpenStack & 
openStack handlers in the first group or card to be opened to be a 
work around: it is simply an illustration of placing handlers at the 
most appropriate point in the message hierarchy.

IMFO, the best place for generic routines is a library stack that 
other stacks start using.  This makes them available to all stacks 
that need them, not just the single mainStack.

And if you mean "generic to the mainStack & it's subStacks" instead 
of generic across two or more mainstacks, doesn't moving the 
openStack handler to the card or group script accomplish exactly that?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From plsntbreez at mac.com  Sat Jul 26 10:51:03 2003
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian K. Maher)
Date: Sat Jul 26 10:51:03 2003
Subject: Newbie - MainStack Question
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bb484e5a0e6e@[216.229.107.83]>
Message-ID: <10B2BBA6-BF80-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>

Hi Rob,

> First, I don't consider placing the mainStack's preOpenStack & 
> openStack handlers in the first group or card to be opened to be a 
> work around: it is simply an illustration of placing handlers at the 
> most appropriate point in the message hierarchy.
>
> IMFO, the best place for generic routines is a library stack that 
> other stacks start using.  This makes them available to all stacks 
> that need them, not just the single mainStack.
>
> And if you mean "generic to the mainStack & it's subStacks" instead of 
> generic across two or more mainstacks, doesn't moving the openStack 
> handler to the card or group script accomplish exactly that?

Hmm ... maybe this is something that I have not yet wrapped my brain 
around yet.  Is it normal to put handlers that apply to one object in 
another object?  I understand putting a mouseUp handler higher in the 
hierarchy if it makes it easier to handle the event for multiple 
buttons (this makes total sense to me), however, it seems strange to me 
to move a handler lower in the hierarchy.  It would seem that this 
would make maintenance of the application harder over the long term 
(i.e. instead of knowing that you may have to search up the object 
hierarchy for a handler you now have to remember to search both up and 
down).  Do you have any old applications that you have had to go back 
and maintain after they have been in use for a while (i.e. an 
application where you don't remember the code / structure)?  Has this 
ever caused a maintenance problem for you?

Thanks, Brian



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Sat Jul 26 11:07:00 2003
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Sat Jul 26 11:07:00 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <000f01c3535c$4d624b90$f600000a@porthos> 
References: <000f01c3535c$4d624b90$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <20030726160015.48492.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Gary Rathbone writes: 

> Miscdas, 
> 
> Thanks for this, unfortunately after step 7 nothing changes. I can "select
> Revolution", but Rev is not added to any list or options. I can follow this
> process for other file types eg .html and it works great. 
> 
> Meanwhile .rev is now associated with wordpad, which is proving quite
> interesting. 
> 
> Cheers 
> 
> Gary 
> 
>> On WIN XP pro, in less than 10 steps: 
>> 
>> 1. In the directory list, right click the stack name
>>   the context menu is displayed.
>> 2. On the context menu, select "open with"
>>   the sub-menu is displayed
>> 3. on the sub-menu, click "choose program"
>>   the "Open with" dialog is displayed
>> 4. on the "Open with" dialog, click the Browse button
>>   a scondary "Open With..." dialog is displayed
>> 5. Browse through the directory to find the Revolution.exe file and select
>> it. (Probably c:\Program Files\Revolution x.x.x\Revoluton.exe )
>> 6. click Open
>>   the "Open with" dialog is dispalyed with Revolution blah-blah selected
>> in
>> the list of applications.
>> 7. select "always use the selected program to open this kind of file"
>> 8. click OK
>>   the dialog closes and your stack is launched 
>> 
>> Now .rev will be associated with Revoluton. 
>> 
>> miscdas
> =========
Gary, 

Are you sure you've done it correctly? I just checked Rev2.0.1 on Win 2000 
Pro. Revolution did NOT appear in the list of files at step 3. (This appears 
to be a registration problem at installaion--"well-behaved" Win apps are 
supposed to register when they install, as well as add an entry for the 
file-type association.) 

I continued with the rest of the procedure and the behavior was as described 
in my prior post; i.e. "Revolution engine for win 32" appeared automatically 
in the list and was selected. At step 8, the Rev file that I had originally 
selected was launched as expected. .rev is now associated with 
revolution.exe, enabling launching of rev stacks by double-clicking. 

So, this works for me on both Win XP pro and Win 2000 pro with Rev 2.0.1 

miscdas 


From lale at phenotyping.com  Sat Jul 26 11:10:01 2003
From: lale at phenotyping.com (Lars Lewejohann)
Date: Sat Jul 26 11:10:01 2003
Subject: Palm Database Viewer
In-Reply-To: <3F1E77FF.9080000@phenotyping.com>
References: <3F1E77FF.9080000@phenotyping.com>
Message-ID: <3F22A633.5080106@phenotyping.com>

Hello,

Thanks for your replies! I updated the stack at
http://www.tinyredbook.com/PDBV.zip . Now it should
work on Mac too (I changed the open database for Macs
to non filtering). I am still confused about the file type of
Palm databases on a Mac.

James Richards wrote:

>A little preliminary checking on my Mac shows that there is no single file
>type for Palm databases. Different Palm applications set different types.
>
If there is no single file type, how will a pdb be assigned to
be hotsyncable? All I could find so far was that changing the
file type to "Gld0" might work. However, if this is not a
generic pdb file type, will it work then on all Macs connected
to a Palm-handheld?

Any enlightenment  will be appreciated!

Kind regards,

Lars



From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Sat Jul 26 11:31:00 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Sat Jul 26 11:31:00 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <20030726160015.48492.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <000001c35392$52282880$f600000a@porthos>

Miscdas wrote,

> Are you sure you've done it correctly? I just checked Rev2.0.1 on Win 2000
> Pro. 

Followed the instructions exactly. As I said I can get it to work with .html
and other extensions but not .rev

Also tried it on my Win 2000 Server (which doesn't have WinRAR) and your
suggestion works fine ! The association works, and the icon changes!

>Revolution did NOT appear in the list of files at step 3. (This
> appears
> to be a registration problem at installation--"well-behaved" Win apps are
> supposed to register when they install, as well as add an entry for the
> file-type association.)

Checking the registry on my XP machine there is a .rev entry in 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes

Which refers only to WinRAR.

I'll have a play around with installation orders and hacking the registry.
As I said it's more of an annoyance than a major issue. I guess I could just
live with it...

Thanks for your help.

Regards

Gary





From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sat Jul 26 11:37:00 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sat Jul 26 11:37:00 2003
Subject: Long File Names
In-Reply-To: <3A11977B-BEDC-11D7-A767-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <5FE8E011-BF86-11D7-8AC4-000393533246@skynet.be>

Le vendredi, 25 juil 2003, ? 22:11 Europe/Brussels, Sannyasin  
Sivakatirswami a ?crit :

> We have a somewhat "giant" archive process in the works where hundreds  
> and hundreds of audio tapes are being digitized by a firm in Seattle  
> and will eventually be archived here on DVD and then distributed via  
> the net for transcription and later public web access. I am using  
> Revolution for the transcription process and most probably will build  
> a cataloging application tailor made for our needs. The issue of long  
> file names arises. Here are parts of the conundrum:
>
> a) we see recommendations among the WC3 standards docs to stay with a  
> maximum 31 char file name.
>
> b) Windows allows long file names.
>
> c) On Mac OSX, one can, for example, save an email with a long subject  
> line (say 75 characters long) and the OS file system will save it to  
> disk with a file name that is 75 characters long.
>
> e.g.
>
> Receive a Bonus Upgrade or XT From Markzware.txt
>
> d) But! if I read this into Revolution , using "answer file" I get  
> this:
>
> /Users/katir/   Working/  Editorial/  Letters to the editor/
> Receive a Bonus Upgr#10AA21.txt
>
> where the Rev engine or the Mac OSX (can't determine which) has  
> truncated the file name to 31 chars, hashing the overlength portion  
> using a mysterious algorithm.
>
> e) Mac OSX itself, in a number of applications, disallows entry of  
> more than 31 chars.
>
> f) but the Mac OSX Finder allows me to enter a file name of 255  
> characters:
>
> 123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789- 
> 123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789- 
> 123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789- 
> 123456789-123456789-123456789-123456789-1.txt
>
> So, this leaves me scratching my head. If i could get Rev to preserve  
> long filenames from "answer file" I might stay with long file names  
> despite the "prohibition" that we see because as far as I can  see,  
> anything to 255 chars is now legal... but some dialog boxes  only  
> allow 31 and we are getting back long file names hashed down to 31  
> char...
>
> Any insights appreciated... what is the unix limit? Linux?
>
>

I had the same problem on mac OS X with Rev 1.x
since I run on Rev 2.0.x, this problem is siolved...
I can use filename with any number of chars, as file or in the path (as  
foldername)

So perhaps is this a problem of Rev version ?

Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 26 11:48:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 26 11:48:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <6F73F11F-BF07-11D7-A2ED-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E8598B14-BF87-11D7-90E3-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 07:21 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> on mouseUp
>   put "Do a <perl>web search for Perl regular expressions</perl>  
> tutorials," into myVar
>   put "<perl>(.*)(</perl>)" into regEx
>
>   -- perlRegEx
>   put the milliseconds into tStartTime
>   repeat with x = 1 to 500
>     put matchText(myVar, regEx, tElement) into bbYes
>   end repeat
>   put (the milliseconds - tStartTime) into ptTime
>   answer tElement
>
>   -- PNLP
>   put the milliseconds into tStartTime
>   repeat with i = 1 to 500
>     put offset("<perl>", myVar) into tNumA
>     put offset("</perl>", myVar) into tNumB
>     put char (tNumA + 6) to (tNumB - 1) of myVar into tElement
>   end repeat
>   put (the milliseconds - tStartTime) into otTime
>   answer tElement
>
>   -- show results
>   answer "perlRegEx = "  & ptTime   & ", PNLP = "  & otTime
> end mouseUp

(Weird.  'myVar' is red in my script editor.)

Part of the timing difference is that you are comparing apples and  
oranges a little bit.

The regex matches the text between the first <perl> and the last  
</perl>.  If <perl></perl> can occur more than once, then that is not  
what you need.

The offset method matches the first existence of <perl> and the first  
existence of </perl>, that is, in any order.  It gets the text between,  
which is empty if one </perl> is before <perl>.

Also, the matchText method sets bbYes, which you will need, I assume.   
The offset method doesn't.

You might have some "don't care" in your need, of course.

However, to compare these, I would make both match only the first  
<perl></perl> pair (ignoring embedded pairs).  Also the offset method  
should set bbYes.  This makes both take longer, but the resulting  
differences in time are less.

Here is my try:

on mouseUp
   put "Do a <perl>web search for Perl regular expressions</perl>  
tutorials," into myVar
   put "<perl>(.*?)</perl>" into regEx  -- Added ?

   -- perlRegEx
   put the long milliseconds into tStartTime
   repeat with x = 1 to 500
     put matchText(myVar, regEx, tElement) into bbYes
   end repeat
   put (the long milliseconds - tStartTime) into ptTime
   answer tElement

   -- PNLP
   put the long milliseconds into tStartTime
   repeat with i = 1 to 500
     -- Added code to set bbYes
     put offset("<perl>", myVar) into tNumA
     if tNumA is 0 then
       put false into bbYes
     else
       put offset("</perl>", myVar, tNumA+5) into tNumB -- Added chars  
to skip
       if tNumB is 0 then
         put false into bbYes
         put empty into tElement
       else
         put char (tNumA + 6) to (tNumA + tNumB +4) of myVar into  
tElement
         put true into bbYes
       end if
     end if
   end repeat
   put (the long milliseconds - tStartTime) into otTime
   answer tElement

   -- show results
   answer "perlRegEx = "  & ptTime   & ", PNLP = "  & otTime
end mouseUp

(I added long to the milliseconds so I get nontrivial times on my  
computer.)

On my computer the matchText takes 30% longer (using your timing code  
above) to match in your example string, but it takes twice as long to  
fail when I add a space in the last element.  It may take tweaking.

(My timing shows less of a difference.)

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 26 12:28:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 26 12:28:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <A2E2E8FA-BF79-11D7-A3D0-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <81737EA0-BF8D-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 08:58  AM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> Yes I can see that. It will also not work for MTML because a part of 
> one element tag set can begin inside of another element tag set and 
> end outside of it in MTML. This was a primary issue while defending 
> off XML innovators several years ago when I started experimenting with 
> it. The PNLP handler is not effected by this problem, and at this 
> point it is still the fastest choice. Where I see an advantage is in 
> some of MTML's multimedia handling tag sets that could be easier to 
> script with perlRegEx.

Mark, I think you are right to look for pros and cons in each method- 
however don't sell the regex method short. I don't there is a problem 
with it or anything that it's not capable of doing, with the right 
pattern. You are judging regex based on only a few examples of a 
pattern match. It's certainly possible to handle nested tags and even 
overlapping tags: it's just a matter of crafting the right regular 
expression.

Tuviah said the patterns are cached so this means speed is not going to 
be an issue. Meaning- your regex pattern itself may be fast, or slow, 
but calling the regex function will be fast in a loop because RR will 
cache the compiled regex pattern.

Lots of people have written have written XML parsers using regular 
expressions. I don't know if it's been done with RR, but certainly it 
has for Perl, Python and other scripting languages with regex features.

There are lots of Perl modules here maybe you can get some ideas:
http://search.cpan.org/modlist/String_Language_Text_Processing/XML

Some of those listed will be just wrappers around C libraries like 
Expat or Xalan, and some will be written in pure Perl with regular 
expressions. In particular I think XML::Grove and XML::Parser::Lite use 
regex to do their parsing. You could copy their perl regular expression 
syntax for use in your project. You will find some SAX-like, DOM-like 
and probably some pull-parser like stuff that list.

I say this partially because I don't really understand how the offset 
method would be used to parse xml in a general, reusable way :-)

Hope this helps,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Jul 26 12:33:01 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat Jul 26 12:33:01 2003
Subject: Newbie - MainStack Question
In-Reply-To: <6D9EAB01-BF79-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <010001c3539a$e93ace00$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

> Wouldn't even be better to avoid these workarounds completely 
> be simply 
> using the main stack as a generic routine holder?

If you like, but then you have to manage an "invisible" mainstack that
is launched. I guess the first question is more one of construction: 

A) if your intention is to have a single .rev file that contains
multiple windows (i.e. substacks), then using the mainstack as a
"handler holder" is a good idea, IMHO. 

B) If your intention is to have a single .rev file that shows only 1
window, you don't need any substacks at all, and all the code can go in
the mainstack.

C) If your intention is to thave multiple .rev files that represent
their own windows, you might do a combination of the above.

Also note that you have the ability to use library stacks (stacks whose
sole purpose is to hold handlers and functions used by any stacks
currently running), so there's another option as well.

Personally, I do (A) most of the time, and so if I want something to
happen only once when my mainstack is launched, I use:

on preOpenStack
  if the owner of the target is me then
    -- Do mainstack stuff
  end if
end preOpenStack

Just my thoughts...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Jul 26 12:35:07 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat Jul 26 12:35:07 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <A2E2E8FA-BF79-11D7-A3D0-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <010101c3539b$3540c7a0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

Mark, so you mean you can do this:
 
<myTag><innerTag></myTag></innerTag>
 
??
 
Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Brownell
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 9:59 AM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: perl regex modifiers



On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 10:28 PM, Dar Scott wrote:



Remember, that is a slightly different pattern recognizer. It will not
work (as expected or hoped) with < in between as might be the case in a
comparison expression or with enclosed elements.

Dar



Yes I can see that. It will also not work for MTML because a part of one
element tag set can begin inside of another element tag set and end
outside of it in MTML. This was a primary issue while defending off XML
innovators several years ago when I started experimenting with it. The
PNLP handler is not effected by this problem, and at this point it is
still the fastest choice. Where I see an advantage is in some of MTML's
multimedia handling tag sets that could be easier to script with
perlRegEx.

Mark


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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Jul 26 12:38:00 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat Jul 26 12:38:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <81737EA0-BF8D-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <010801c3539b$9454fd60$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

> Lots of people have written have written XML parsers using regular 
> expressions. I don't know if it's been done with RR, but certainly it 
> has for Perl, Python and other scripting languages with regex 
> features.

It certainly has:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/products/metacard/xmllib.htm

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 




From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 26 12:48:00 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat Jul 26 12:48:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <81737EA0-BF8D-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <B8D1A416-BF90-11D7-B3E1-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 10:20  AM, Alex Rice wrote:

> Hope this helps,
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer

It helps a lot and thanks very much. I just got done with the brain 
teaser for Rev Blowfish and now I'm jumping into perl regEx... Yikes!

Mark
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From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 26 12:54:01 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat Jul 26 12:54:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <010101c3539b$3540c7a0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <8CC75082-BF91-11D7-B3E1-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 10:27  AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Mark, so you mean you can do this:
> ?
> <myTag><innerTag></myTag></innerTag>
> ?
> ??
> ?
> Ken Ray

Ken

Yes. Read this:
A Funny Thing Happened to Me on the Way to XML
http://12.108.175.91/ebookweb/stories/storyReader$1570

and this very old document:
Meaningful Text Markup Language explained...
http://www.gizmotron.org/mtml/mtxpl.html

So what's your problem? I hate XML... just kidding! ;-)

Mark



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Jul 26 12:55:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Jul 26 12:55:00 2003
Subject: Newbie - MainStack Question
In-Reply-To: <9C208854-BF6E-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BB480CB2.31581%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Brian K. Maher wrote:

> I am trying to understand the best way to design a database
> application using Revolution.
> 
> I have noticed that handlers in the main stack (i.e. in the Stack
> script) are automatically seen by all sub stacks.
> 
> For example, an openStack handler in the main stack will be invoked
> when a sub stack opens and has no openStack handler of its own.
> 
> This is leading me to question whether I should (or want to) use the
> main stack for anything other than generic handlers that my
> application needs.  I am thinking about simply making the main stack
> invisible and using only sub stacks for my applications windows.
> 
> Can anyone give me any insights on this?  Am I missing something here?

I tend to put handlers specific to the mainStack in the script of the
mainStack's card, leaving its stack script for use as a common library as
you suggest.  

Having the mainstack invisible is not a bad idea.  I usually have my
mainstack consist only of a memory error warning, hiding that stack at the
end of the preOpenStack handler in its card script.  This way if the boot
sequence is completed successfully it's never seen, and any errors go
through my own error handling -- except those cases in which something
prevents even my error-catching from working, which is often related to
memory issues (almost any other type of error will at least retain the
ability to present an error dialog); in those cases the program is left
hanging, but at least the user has some relevant information.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 26 13:04:01 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat Jul 26 13:04:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <E8598B14-BF87-11D7-90E3-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <03713622-BF93-11D7-B3E1-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

Hi Dar,

This will be a fun one to respond to. I never get to discuss my 
invention, except to users that are mostly never interested.

On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 09:40  AM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 07:21 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:
>
>> on mouseUp
>>   put "Do a <perl>web search for Perl regular expressions</perl> 
>> tutorials," into myVar
>>   put "<perl>(.*)(</perl>)" into regEx
>>
>>   -- perlRegEx
>>   put the milliseconds into tStartTime
>>   repeat with x = 1 to 500
>>     put matchText(myVar, regEx, tElement) into bbYes
>>   end repeat
>>   put (the milliseconds - tStartTime) into ptTime
>>   answer tElement
>>
>>   -- PNLP
>>   put the milliseconds into tStartTime
>>   repeat with i = 1 to 500
>>     put offset("<perl>", myVar) into tNumA
>>     put offset("</perl>", myVar) into tNumB
>>     put char (tNumA + 6) to (tNumB - 1) of myVar into tElement
>>   end repeat
>>   put (the milliseconds - tStartTime) into otTime
>>   answer tElement
>>
>>   -- show results
>>   answer "perlRegEx = "  & ptTime   & ", PNLP = "  & otTime
>> end mouseUp
>
> (Weird.  'myVar' is red in my script editor.)
>
> Part of the timing difference is that you are comparing apples and 
> oranges a little bit.
>
> The regex matches the text between the first <perl> and the last 
> </perl>.  If <perl></perl> can occur more than once, then that is not 
> what you need.

That would definitely foul up MTML's relational text gathering system.

>
> The offset method matches the first existence of <perl> and the first 
> existence of </perl>, that is, in any order.  It gets the text 
> between, which is empty if one </perl> is before <perl>.

Hence the name PNLP, Parallel Numerical Lineal Parser. The thing is 
meant to parse lineally. In older apps I had a check & see section for 
numbers that were less-than the appropriate matching start-tag number.

My markup language, my need to keep it well-formed; at least to the 
degree that MTML has a pseudo well-formed requirement that is. Since 
I'm working on integrating the WYSIWYG for MTML into the text 
environment, so that the user never sees the markup language, there 
will never be a case where a tag-set gets out of sequence. If a person 
where to create a document using a text editor then that could happen 
but the user app is far easier to create with. Anyone creating with a 
text editor aught to test it before deploying it anyway.

>
> Also, the matchText method sets bbYes, which you will need, I assume.  
> The offset method doesn't.
>
> You might have some "don't care" in your need, of course.

I have a lot of "don't care" in my need. It should work every time 
because the markup language should be implemented properly. I do, 
however check that it doesn't crash the app if it's improper in number.


> However, to compare these, I would make both match only the first 
> <perl></perl> pair (ignoring embedded pairs).  Also the offset method 
> should set bbYes.  This makes both take longer, but the resulting 
> differences in time are less.

Then one should also be aware that I sometimes try to pick up 
multiple-lines of text embedded between the <perl> </perl> sets. I 
noticed that the regEx example so far will not do that. I wonder what 
would happen to speed after that was added.


> Here is my try:

[snip]

> (My timing shows less of a difference.)
>
> Dar Scott

Very interesting. If I needed this form of validation then it would be 
worth the speed hit. There are cases where the PNLP will parse up to 
two megabytes of text for all instances of several MTML tag-sets from 
within the "<page> </page>" tag-sets where elements of each "<page> 
</page>" tag-sets are treated as individual objects, one at a time. I'm 
satisfied with the results that I'm getting from Rev. I did this all 
with the textCruncher Xtra for Director in shockwave before. T 
extCruncher Xtra is just a little faster, written in C and probably 
uses the string class or perl regEx in C scripted handlers to speed 
Director up.

Mark



From plsntbreez at mac.com  Sat Jul 26 13:36:00 2003
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian K. Maher)
Date: Sat Jul 26 13:36:00 2003
Subject: Newbie - MainStack Question
In-Reply-To: <010001c3539a$e93ace00$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <0E41DD6A-BF97-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>

Hi Ken,

Thanks to you (and everyone else) who responded.

Since my app will have a single .rev file (i.e. all
windows will be substacks) I have decided to use the
main stack as a place to put generic handlers and
keep it hidden at runtime.  I am going to put widgets
(not sure what ones yet) on the main stack with a text
label indicating what kind of scripts are behind each
widget.  I will then add the scripts of each of those
widgets to the search path (I forget the exact term
right now).

Thanks, Brian



From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Jul 26 13:52:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat Jul 26 13:52:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <03713622-BF93-11D7-B3E1-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <475FE6D8-BF99-11D7-90E3-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 12:00 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>> However, to compare these, I would make both match only the first  
>> <perl></perl> pair (ignoring embedded pairs).  Also the offset method  
>> should set bbYes.  This makes both take longer, but the resulting  
>> differences in time are less.
>
> Then one should also be aware that I sometimes try to pick up  
> multiple-lines of text embedded between the <perl> </perl> sets. I  
> noticed that the regEx example so far will not do that. I wonder what  
> would happen to speed after that was added.

Try "(?s:<perl>(.*?)</perl>)".

Dar
************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Jul 26 13:56:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Jul 26 13:56:01 2003
Subject: Newbie - MainStack Question
In-Reply-To: <10B2BBA6-BF80-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>
References: <10B2BBA6-BF80-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bb48753d470a@[216.229.107.150]>

>Has this ever caused a maintenance problem for you?

Hi Again, Brian.

First, let me say that when I was first introduced to x-Talks via 
HyperCard after fifteen years of "traditional" programming, one of 
the greatest difficulties I had was becoming familiar enough with the 
message hierarchy to understand how the logic I scripted in a mouseUp 
handler going to another card or stack might be affected by the 
mouseLeave, close, preOpen, open, & mouseEnter handlers in the 
affected controls...and to remember to factor in the consequences of 
other handlers that they might trigger.

What I'm saying is I am thinking about your issue in the broader 
context of message hierarchy rather than assigning a fixed location 
for each handler.  In that context, & within the framework of your 
mainStack/subStack example--it applies to library stacks in use as 
well--, placing preOpenStack & openStack handlers in a location other 
than the stack script simply works correctly, while placing the 
handler(s) in the stack script does not.

Coming from a HyperCard background, where once an object's script 
handlers exceeded 30k of text one had to find inventive places to 
place "overflow" handlers, I am well versed at searching the places I 
might routinely use for handler storage;  however there is nothing to 
prevent one from always placing those handlers in the script of the 
first card, SO LONG AS the stack always opened at the first card.

Other workarounds:

* Lock messages before opening subStacks

* Trap the messages in the subStack script:

	on openStack
	end openStack

Perhaps the latter workaround would appeal to you, as every one of 
your stacks & substacks would include an openStack handler, null or 
not.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 26 14:26:00 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat Jul 26 14:26:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <475FE6D8-BF99-11D7-90E3-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <7DB6F678-BF9E-11D7-B40A-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 11:45  AM, Dar Scott wrote:

> Try "(?s:<perl>(.*?)</perl>)".
>
> Dar

That picks up multiple lines.

82.095093  = perlRegEx,  30.654907  = PNLP

So far parallel offset() arrays is the winner.
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From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 26 14:30:01 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat Jul 26 14:30:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <010801c3539b$9454fd60$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <F93EA0E0-BF9E-11D7-B40A-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 10:30  AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> It certainly has:
>
> http://www.sonsothunder.com/products/metacard/xmllib.htm
>
> :-)

I'll bet this is chuck full of excellent perl regEx examples.
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From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 26 14:48:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 26 14:48:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <010801c3539b$9454fd60$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <29029738-BFA1-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 11:30  AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> It certainly has:
>
> http://www.sonsothunder.com/products/metacard/xmllib.htm

Hey! I thought this existed, but I couldn't remember where it was.

Ken, other than being smaller (no external), and having extensive 
documentation, what are other advantages of your xmllib over the new 
revXML* functions included in Rev 2.x?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 26 15:00:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 26 15:00:00 2003
Subject: Newbie - MainStack Question
In-Reply-To: <9C208854-BF6E-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D5FA7F1A-BFA2-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 07:39  AM, Brian K. Maher wrote:
>> This is leading me to question whether I should (or want to) use the 
>> main stack for anything other than generic handlers that my 
>> application needs.  I am thinking about simply making the main stack 
>> invisible and using only sub stacks for my applications windows.
>>
>> Can anyone give me any insights on this?  Am I missing something here?

I have an app where I decided to use the mainstack as a splash screen, 
and also use it a keeper of some common scripts used by the app. After 
the app starts the splash screen is  just hidden. It seems to work good.

I find it helpful to think about the message hierarchy like inheritance 
in an object-oriented programming language. For example in an app I 
have a "doNext" handler that moves to a new card in some intelligent 
manner.

-- in mainstack
-- (this handler shouldn't get to here)
on doNext
  answer warning "oops, forgot to implement doNext" && the target
end doNext

-- in substack x
on doNext
  -- implement default navigation behavior for this substack
  -- if a card doesn't implement doNext, it will inherit this behavior
  do "behavior..."
end doNext

-- in some card of substack x
on doNext
  -- override the inherited navigation behavior
  do "behavior..." or pass doNext
end doNext


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Jul 26 15:02:01 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat Jul 26 15:02:01 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <29029738-BFA1-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <013a01c353af$cd30de60$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

> Ken, other than being smaller (no external), and having extensive 
> documentation, what are other advantages of your xmllib over the new 
> revXML* functions included in Rev 2.x?

You can customize the way XML is handled to suit special cases (like
MTML ;-), and many people have told me it is easier to understand and
use than the revXML functions. It also used to be that this was the only
XML library MetaCard users could use (unless they also happened to have
Revolution), but that point is moot now.

Keep in mind, though, that revXML is an external, and is therefore
faster than a Transcript-only solution; it also supports SOAP, DTDs,
etc. and is better at reading large quantities of "records" from a
"database" XML document. 

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sat Jul 26 15:19:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Jul 26 15:19:00 2003
Subject: mailing list vs newsgroup
In-Reply-To: <1059213258.1292.32.camel@linux104>
Message-ID: <7013A435-BFA5-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 03:54  AM, Hans Ydelm wrote:

> This is probably the busiest mailing list I subscribe too. 
> Unfortunately
> when the volume is too high it is difficult to see the mailing threads
> and a newsgroup reader would be much better.

I agree that threads are easier to read-- but that's not good enough 
reason to start a newsgroup IMHO.

You can read the list in a threaded view here on the web:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/

This article mentions some mail clients that do message threading:

	http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html
	"""In this document, I describe what is, in my humble but correct 
opinion, the best known algorithm for threading messages (that is, 
grouping messages together in parent/child relationships based on which 
messages are replies to which others.)  This is the threading algorithm 
that was used in Netscape Mail and News 2.0 and 3.0, and in Grendel.  
"""

Does anyone know why so few mail clients offer threaded views by 
subject? Most Usenet news readers do have threading by subject... go 
figure.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Sat Jul 26 15:34:00 2003
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham)
Date: Sat Jul 26 15:34:00 2003
Subject: Copying an image from a stack
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030726203021.00c4a6b8@pop.wanadoo.fr>

I was trying out Sannyasin Sivakatirswami's charming stack "Yamas and 
Niyamas" (interesting content, but that's another story...). Just for 
experimental purposes, I wanted to have a look at the animated GIF of a 
dove which has already been mentioned on this list (I wasn't planning to 
steal it!). I tried to select it and examine it with an editor. At random I 
chose probably an unsuitable editor, MS PictureIt!, which happened to be on 
the PC I'm using. Now comes the odd bit:

1. RunRev asked me to identify the path to the editor, which I did and it 
then said it was opening it, but it didn't do so as far as I could see (no 
menus, nothing in the bar at the bottom of the screen, etc). I may have hit 
'Update' but AFAIKS there was nothing doing the updating.

2. I am sure that I never saved a copy of the stack, but after this 
attempt, the dove changed from an animated gif to a single inanimate frame! 
Quitting RunRev and starting again didn't restore the bird to life - what 
was all that about?

Anyway my real question is, if I can see an image in a stack while under 
development, how can I export it to another program? I would have guessed 
that selecting the object, copying, switching apps and pasting would do it 
(provided the object was understood by the second app), but it doesn't seem 
to work. I guess I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not sure what.

Graham

OT PS: I am not enjoying learning ImageReady to create my own animated 
GIFs. The Help system appears to have been written by someone living in a 
different universe from the one I'm in... ah well.


---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  




From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Jul 26 15:46:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat Jul 26 15:46:01 2003
Subject: Copying an image from a stack
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030726203021.00c4a6b8@pop.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <45EF7BDA-BFA9-11D7-81D1-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Graham,

> ...
> Anyway my real question is, if I can see an image in a stack while 
> under development,
> how can I export it to another program?

You can always "put img xxx into url"binfile:yyy.gif" if its really a 
gif ;-)

> I would have guessed that selecting the object, copying, switching 
> apps and pasting would do it
> (provided the object was understood by the second app), but it doesn't 
> seem to work.
> I guess I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not sure what.
>
> Graham
>
> OT PS: I am not enjoying learning ImageReady to create my own animated 
> GIFs.

Yeah, ImageReady gifs are going well with MC/RR.
Be sure to uncheck "optimize" or "optimized", RR could choke on that 
feature... ;-)

> The Help system appears to have been written by someone living in a 
> different
> universe from the one I'm in... ah well.

Don't need no stinking help system :-D

Hope that helps ;-)

> ---------------------------------------------------
> Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 26 16:13:00 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat Jul 26 16:13:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <013a01c353af$cd30de60$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <6320A754-BFAD-11D7-8421-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 12:54  PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>> Ken, other than being smaller (no external), and having extensive
>> documentation, what are other advantages of your xmllib over the new
>> revXML* functions included in Rev 2.x?
>
> You can customize the way XML is handled to suit special cases (like
> MTML ;-), and many people have told me it is easier to understand and
> use than the revXML functions. It also used to be that this was the 
> only
> XML library MetaCard users could use (unless they also happened to have
> Revolution), but that point is moot now.
>
> Keep in mind, though, that revXML is an external, and is therefore
> faster than a Transcript-only solution; it also supports SOAP, DTDs,
> etc. and is better at reading large quantities of "records" from a
> "database" XML document.
>
> Ken Ray


> Re: You can customize the way XML is handled to suit special cases 
> (like MTML ;-)

Ken

I just looked through the docs for this. It looks like one of the 
important steps in using this involves validation of the document as 
valid-XML, well-formed and all that neat stuff. 1. MTML is not 
well-formed. 2 MTML is designed to work with fragments of itself broken 
up into smaller sized objects. For an example: I would need to isolate 
a set of XML sales transactions with each transaction becoming a 
document fragment, object, and then parse just that fragment without 
validating the XML of that fragment first.

Can your XML external customize to the point that it will work with #1 
& #2 ?

If I were to get your open stack version would the source code be 
exposed so that I could see your perl regEx functions/handlers?

Thanks,

Mark



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Jul 26 16:43:00 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat Jul 26 16:43:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <6320A754-BFAD-11D7-8421-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <015201c353bd$ea278a10$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

> I just looked through the docs for this. It looks like one of the 
> important steps in using this involves validation of the document as 
> valid-XML, well-formed and all that neat stuff. 1. MTML is not 
> well-formed. 2 MTML is designed to work with fragments of 
> itself broken 
> up into smaller sized objects. For an example: I would need 
> to isolate 
> a set of XML sales transactions with each transaction becoming a 
> document fragment, object, and then parse just that fragment without 
> validating the XML of that fragment first.
> 
> Can your XML external customize to the point that it will 
> work with #1 
> & #2 ?

Well, since its pure Transcript, you can modify it in any way you like,
including reading "non-well-formed" XML.

> If I were to get your open stack version would the source code be 
> exposed so that I could see your perl regEx functions/handlers?

Yes. The whole thing is completely unlocked and you can do with it as
you please (other than sell it again as a product of your own).

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 




From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 26 16:55:00 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat Jul 26 16:55:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <015201c353bd$ea278a10$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <37AD6192-BFB3-11D7-8421-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 02:35  PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>> Can your XML external customize to the point that it will
>> work with #1 & #2 ?
>
> Well, since its pure Transcript, you can modify it in any way you like,
> including reading "non-well-formed" XML.

Excellent!

>
>> If I were to get your open stack version would the source code be
>> exposed so that I could see your perl regEx functions/handlers?
>
> Yes. The whole thing is completely unlocked and you can do with it as
> you please (other than sell it again as a product of your own).
>
> Ken Ray

Sold!


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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 26 17:38:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sat Jul 26 17:38:00 2003
Subject: Developers: Tip of the Week!
In-Reply-To: <3F224CE2.4070808@phenotyping.com>
Message-ID: <20030726223056.36421.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com>

is there an archive for-
Developers: Tip of the Week!
on the RunRev site?

thanks, Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Jul 26 18:05:00 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat Jul 26 18:05:00 2003
Subject: perl regex modifiers
In-Reply-To: <37AD6192-BFB3-11D7-8421-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <016901c353c9$4c8607d0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

Mark,

If you need any help on this after you get it, let me know offlist.

Thanks!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Brownell
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 4:51 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: perl regex modifiers



On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 02:35 PM, Ken Ray wrote:


Can your XML external customize to the point that it will 
work with #1 & #2 ?


Well, since its pure Transcript, you can modify it in any way you like,
including reading "non-well-formed" XML.


Excellent!




If I were to get your open stack version would the source code be 
exposed so that I could see your perl regEx functions/handlers?


Yes. The whole thing is completely unlocked and you can do with it as
you please (other than sell it again as a product of your own).

Ken Ray


Sold!




From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Sat Jul 26 18:39:00 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sat Jul 26 18:39:00 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <000001c35392$52282880$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHMELBDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Howdy

Try this:

on mouseUp
  answer file "Choose Rev"
  if the result is "cancel" then exit mouseUp
  put replaceText(theF,"/","\") into theF
  put theF,1 into dIcon
  put theF & " %1" into sCom
  get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.rev\", "Revolution")
  get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Revolution\", "Revolution Stack")
  get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Revolution\DefaultIcon\", dIcon)
  get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Revolution\shell\open\command\", sCom)
end mouseUp

Cheers

Monte


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Sat Jul 26 18:58:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sat Jul 26 18:58:01 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHMELBDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCELCDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

OOPS

> Howdy
> 
> Try this:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   answer file "Choose Rev"
>   if the result is "cancel" then exit mouseUp
>   put replaceText(theF,"/","\") into theF
<bugfix>
put replaceText(it,"/","\") into theF
</bugfix>
>   put theF,1 into dIcon
>   put theF & " %1" into sCom
>   get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.rev\", "Revolution")
>   get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Revolution\", "Revolution Stack")
>   get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Revolution\DefaultIcon\", dIcon)
>   get 
> setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Revolution\shell\open\command\", sCom)
> end mouseUp
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Jul 26 19:15:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat Jul 26 19:15:01 2003
Subject: Developers: Tip of the Week!
In-Reply-To: <20030726223056.36421.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIIEKACPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Don't have an answer to this one, but rather a suggestion. Since Tip of the
Week doesn't get updated on a weekly (or monthly) basis, I suggest we ask
volunteers to create a 'tip of the week' each week. I'd be more than happy
to contribute. Perhaps people can throw their name in a hat, and RR can
select and assign weeks..

just an idea.

-Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of erik hansen
> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 5:31 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Developers: Tip of the Week!
>
>
>
> is there an archive for-
> Developers: Tip of the Week!
> on the RunRev site?
>
> thanks, Erik
>
> =====
> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From dan at shafermedia.com  Sat Jul 26 20:27:00 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat Jul 26 20:27:00 2003
Subject: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
Message-ID: <6DB8B746-BFD0-11D7-965F-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

When I said a few hundred posts ago that an unclickable checkbox was a 
violation of Apple's Human Interface Guidelines (HIG), what i *really* 
meant was that it violates what I'd consider to be *fundamental* UI 
design. Apple's HIG are the best single codification of UI design I 
know about, because they've been doing that (codifying) and studying 
the issue for longer than any mainstream software or hardware 
manufacturer.

I don't even know if Microsoft has set of codified UI guidelines; if 
they do, they clearly don't enforce it, even on their own products. And 
that's OK if that's how they want to proceed.

It is interesting that the Web browser has drastically altered peoples' 
expectations of the UI. In fact, it has lowered their expectations to a 
least common denominator that's not all that broad. And that may 
ultimately turn out to be a good thing.

I spent a good many years engaged primarily in GUI design (in fact, I 
own the domain gui.com) and am perhaps more sensitive to the issue than 
most users, even. But whether you choose Apple's HIG as your baseline 
(someone said they're no longer sure Apple's guidelines are all that 
good, but I challenge anyone to come up with a more coherent, 
consistent, and clear set of guidelines) or someone else's, the most 
important single rule of UI design that I have come up with in 15 years 
is simple:

Never surprise the user.

A surprised user is a confused user is a distressed user is a user who 
is not going to be a user one second longer than s/he has to be.

A checkbox I can't uncheck is a surprise. I never (or at least almost 
never) encounter such beasts. Put one into your program at the very 
high risk that I will be sufficiently uncomfortable that I will go 
away. And, what is perhaps more sinister and important, I will probably 
never tell you why I went away.



From LynnP333 at aol.com  Sat Jul 26 20:45:01 2003
From: LynnP333 at aol.com (LynnP333 at aol.com)
Date: Sat Jul 26 20:45:01 2003
Subject: Debugger Variable Watcher
Message-ID: <171.21d9fe6e.2c5486c6@aol.com>

I recently purchased v2.0.2 Express version and am running it on Mac OS X.   
I'm using the debugger and setting a checkpoint at a variable but I'm not see 
any changes in that variable value or any variable values using Step Into.   
Is anyone else having probelms with the debugger? 
It wasn't working in my free v2.1 version either.

Thanks for any insight.   

Lynn P.
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From LynnP333 at aol.com  Sat Jul 26 21:18:01 2003
From: LynnP333 at aol.com (LynnP333 at aol.com)
Date: Sat Jul 26 21:18:01 2003
Subject: Debugger Variable Watcher
Message-ID: <1c1.d057a46.2c548e90@aol.com>

Sorry folks... Adendum to that earlier query...
If I make a new stack, the debugger works fine showing the variable values in 
the variable watcher.
Where I'm having problems is with an import of a HyperCard stack. I'm editing 
a text field which is part of a background group, if that makes a difference. 
All non-compatible HC scripts have been commented out. What's not working is 
a pretty straigh tforward text field script ie:
       get the clickLine
       put word 2 of the clickLine into x
      put line x of bkgnd field "fldItem" into r

The variable watcher makes no changes to x or r
I'd hate to write this puppy from scratch.<g!>

Lynn P.

~~~~ original message ~~~~
> I recently purchased v2.0.2 Express version and am running it on Mac OS X.  
>  I'm using the debugger and setting a checkpoint at a variable but I'm not 
> see any changes in that variable value or any variable values using Step Into. 
>   Is anyone else having probelms with the debugger? 
> It wasn't working in my free v2.1 version either.
> 
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From themacguy at macosx.com  Sat Jul 26 22:53:00 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Sat Jul 26 22:53:00 2003
Subject: Printing cards with player objects
Message-ID: <E076FF02-BFE4-11D7-BF4F-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Alex Rice's short script examples regarding printing cards that have 
player objects referencing movies on the HD do the job. I've even added 
a short script to set a "default frame" (setting a specific frame of 
the movie to be the visible one when the movie isn't playing and using 
that frame to be the one printed).

I'll be submitting a stack illustrating these concepts. Newbies (and 
not-so-newbies) need to know how to print a player object (without 
crashing in OSX or getting blank printed rectangles on other platforms).

Barry



From squance at elkvalley.net  Sat Jul 26 23:39:00 2003
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Sat Jul 26 23:39:00 2003
Subject: [OT] Quick Quiz For HyperCarders
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bb4701f919dd@[216.229.107.252]>
Message-ID: <l03130301bb4906217610@[192.168.1.101]>

I was hoping there would be a reply.  I'm curious.  It sounds very
familiar, but a search (Altavista and Google) only came up with an old post
of yours to the Metacard list.  Was it in Apple's advertising when HC first
came out?
Dave

>Hi All,
>
>I ran across an old eSig of mine [below] which prompts these questions:
>
>* Can anyone recite the text that inspired my quotation?
>
>* Can anyone tell me the source of that text?
>
>--
>
>Rob Cozens, CCW
>Serendipity Software Company
>
>"Prolonging the hour of astonishment..."
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





From dan at shafermedia.com  Sat Jul 26 23:40:52 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat Jul 26 23:40:52 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
Message-ID: <4EF3AD5B-BFEB-11D7-965F-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

Richard Gaskins suggests that perhaps developers of the world need to 
take the issue of cross-platform GUI compatibility by the horns and 
wrestle it to the ground.

Nice idea, Richard, but it's a non-starter for two big reasons.

First, users will hate it. If you're a Windows user accustomed to doing 
some of the funky UI stuff Windows supports, you will not like using an 
app that behaves differently from your expectations. Cross-platform is 
meaningless to 99% of users. They expect things to work the right way 
on *their* platform of choice. They don't care how hard it is for us 
developers to make it that way.

Second, programmers will hate it. Consistency of UI is a bugaboo to 
developers, many of whom think they have a better/more creative/cooler 
way to do something.

Smalltalk tried -- and still tries -- to define "cross-platform" as 
meaning "looks same on all platforms." They don't get away with it, by 
and large. We wouldn't either.

Bottom line: if we're going to be multi-platform developers, we have to 
learn to develop so our apps look and behave natively on all targeted 
platforms. Rev comes much, much closer to supporting that ideal than 
any IDE or language of which I am aware. Especially Java. (yuk)



From dan at shafermedia.com  Sat Jul 26 23:47:00 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat Jul 26 23:47:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <200307240214.WAA16345@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5EEFEA7C-BFEC-11D7-965F-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 07:14 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I do believe good interface design is necessary in order
> to create great products, but I believe good designers should create 
> good
> interfaces with or without GUI guidelines.

Yep and that's why we need GUI guidelines. Most folks coding apps are 
not good UI designers.




From dan at shafermedia.com  Sat Jul 26 23:58:00 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat Jul 26 23:58:00 2003
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <F2699F20-BFED-11D7-965F-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

James Lewes asked:

> CGI tutorial for denser than dummy

Have you read my CGI chapter from Volume 3 of my forthcoming book 
series on Revolution?

http://www.eclecticity.com/danshafer/chapter21.rtf




From katir at hindu.org  Sun Jul 27 00:12:00 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun Jul 27 00:12:00 2003
Subject: Long File Names
In-Reply-To: <5FE8E011-BF86-11D7-8AC4-000393533246@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <E91FBE06-BFEF-11D7-84D1-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 06:29  AM, Yves COPPE wrote:
>>
>> d) But! if I read this into Revolution , using "answer file" I get 
>> this:
>>
>> /Users/katir/   Working/  Editorial/  Letters to the editor/
>> Receive a Bonus Upgr#10AA21.txt
>>
>> where the Rev engine or the Mac OSX (can't determine which) has 
>> truncated the file name to 31 chars, hashing the overlength portion 
>> using a mysterious algorithm.
>>
>
> I had the same problem on mac OS X with Rev 1.x
> since I run on Rev 2.0.x, this problem is siolved...
> I can use filename with any number of chars, as file or in the path 
> (as foldername)
>
> So perhaps is this a problem of Rev version ?
>
> Greetings.
> Yves COPPE

Well, You can write a long file name but not read it... at least not 
here in 2.0.1
e.g.

## button 1 ##
on mouseUp
   ask file "enter"
       ## Enter a file name of 150 characters)
   put "hellO" into url ("file:"&it)
end mouseUp


## the above will work ##

## button 1 ##
on mouseUp
   ask file "enter" ## Enter a file name of 150 characters)
   put "hellO" into url ("file:"&it)
end mouseUp

## the above will work ##

## button 2 ##
on mouseUp
   answer file "choose a long file name" with "OK"
       ## choose the long file name you just saved above
  put it
end mouseUp

what do you get?








From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sun Jul 27 00:55:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Jul 27 00:55:00 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <346420.1054737191795.JavaMail.degbert@mac.com>
Message-ID: <DD9A9CE9-BFF5-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, June 4, 2003, at 08:33  AM, David Egbert wrote:

> What would be the best way to implement a spell-checker in Rev?
>
> Is there something I could leverage inside of Rev already?
>

I've been searching the list archive- it seems that there is no spell 
checking plugin for Rev. Is this still the case?

(I don't mean Spell Catcher X or 3rd party apps- I mean an actual RR 
plugin that knows about the structure of RR stacks and fields, scripts 
and properties, and RR keywords)

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From david at kwinter.ca  Sun Jul 27 01:04:01 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Sun Jul 27 01:04:01 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <DD9A9CE9-BFF5-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB48C5E2.1E8F%david@kwinter.ca>

This may not be of interest, but I have a 1.5MB text file, one word per line
which is quite comprehensive, it includes separate lines for plural forms of
words as well as past and present conjugations of verbs. I've found it very
useful. If anyone wants to play around with it, reply and I'll put it on the
web.

David Kwinter



From jamesjrichards at lineone.net  Sun Jul 27 01:13:00 2003
From: jamesjrichards at lineone.net (James Richards)
Date: Sun Jul 27 01:13:00 2003
Subject: Palm Database Viewer
In-Reply-To: <200307261601.MAA31762@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB4929A3.3767%jamesjrichards@lineone.net>

on 26/7/03 18:02:59 +0200,  Lars Lewejohann wrote:

> If there is no single file type, how will a pdb be assigned to
> be hotsyncable?

Interesting... I've just had a go with HotSync manager which seems to be
willing to let me install any plain text file or even HyperCard stacks! I've
not tried out installing because I don't want to mess up my PDA. It looks as
though they are working on 'trust the user not to be an idiot' which is not
what I'd call failsafe!

> All I could find so far was that changing the
> file type to "Gld0" might work. However, if this is not a
> generic pdb file type, will it work then on all Macs connected
> to a Palm-handheld?

That type seems very common. It applies to almost everything I have got.
Exceptions are the Bible text files for BibleReader which are 'TEXT' and the
translated document files for Documents To Go which appear to have 'PDB ' -
the fourth char seems to be a space.

I think that the effect of using that type in your stack would be that any
non 'Gld0' type files would simply be invisible in the answer dialog. And
effectively unopenable. What hazards are there in allowing the user
potentially to try and open anything in your stack as if it were a .pdb?
There could be potential for freezing/crashing I suppose. Is there anything
in the content of the file which would identify it so that it could be
tested for and if it is not a .pdb file the stack could close it again
without changing it and refuse to dispaly it. Sorry - just thinking aloud
here

Regards

James

-- 
James J Richards

jamesjrichards at lineone.net

Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Jul 27 01:20:01 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun Jul 27 01:20:01 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <BB48C5E2.1E8F%david@kwinter.ca>
Message-ID: <002101c35406$0ef85ac0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

Sounds neat, David. Why don't you post it so people (including myself)
can take a look at it?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> David Kwinter
> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 12:57 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Spell check for Rev?
> 
> 
> This may not be of interest, but I have a 1.5MB text file, 
> one word per line which is quite comprehensive, it includes 
> separate lines for plural forms of words as well as past and 
> present conjugations of verbs. I've found it very useful. If 
> anyone wants to play around with it, reply and I'll put it on the web.
> 
> David Kwinter
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sun Jul 27 01:22:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Jul 27 01:22:02 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <BB48C5E2.1E8F%david@kwinter.ca>
Message-ID: <8463EF02-BFF9-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 11:57  PM, David Kwinter wrote:

> This may not be of interest, but I have a 1.5MB text file, one word 
> per line
> which is quite comprehensive, it includes separate lines for plural 
> forms of
> words as well as past and present conjugations of verbs. I've found it 
> very
> useful. If anyone wants to play around with it, reply and I'll put it 
> on the
> web.

David, great- I would like to download it.

BTW for you Mac-sen, on OS X /usr/share/dict/words is 235K lines, 2.5MB.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From jeanne at runrev.com  Sun Jul 27 01:23:52 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun Jul 27 01:23:52 2003
Subject: Rev 2.02
In-Reply-To: <p05210600bb4841b7e35b@[10.29.0.189]>
References: <200307260527.BAA19322@www.runrev.com>
 <200307260527.BAA19322@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <v0313031abb485393ca0e@[10.0.1.2]>

At 7:41 AM -0700 7/26/03, Kjetil R? Hauge wrote:
>I'm still a bit confused - on 18 July, Kevin Miller (use-revolution
>digest, Vol 1 #1626) said you "have almost completed 2.1". Is it just
>that you haven't decided yet what number to give the next update, or
>is there a 2.1 update coming shortly after 2.02?

The latter.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Sun Jul 27 01:29:38 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun Jul 27 01:29:38 2003
Subject: [OT] Quick Quiz For HyperCarders
In-Reply-To: <l03130301bb4906217610@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <a05100301bb4701f919dd@[216.229.107.252]>
Message-ID: <v03130321bb491d73b48d@[10.0.1.2]>

At 9:33PM -0700 7/26/03, David Squance wrote:
>I was hoping there would be a reply.  I'm curious.  It sounds very
>familiar, but a search (Altavista and Google) only came up with an old post
>of yours to the Metacard list.  Was it in Apple's advertising when HC first
>came out?

It's in the HyperCard About box - version 2.0, I think:

  A day of acquaintance
  And then the longer span of custom
  But first --
  The hour of astonishment.

(I'm doing that from memory, so I may have gotten it a bit wrong, but
that's the gist of it.)

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From david at kwinter.ca  Sun Jul 27 01:31:31 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Sun Jul 27 01:31:31 2003
Subject: Tiny images, mega headache
Message-ID: <BB48CB0E.1E95%david@kwinter.ca>

I'm in the middle of making a map-editor for a new 2-D game. It's a grid of
8x8 pixel tiles, designed to fill a 1024,768 screen. Each tile can be one of
28 different images.

There are 96 columns and 128 rows.

On both my 667mhz G4 and 1.9ghz Pentium 4 the following repeat, designed to
set each tile to the default "water" background, stalls about 70% of the way
through.


 repeat with y=1 to 96
    lock screen
    repeat with x=1 to 128
          
      put x&"c"&y into iName
      set the fileName of image iName to pgmRootDir&"images/water.png"
     
      if the capslockkey=down then exit repeat
    end repeat
    unlock screen
    if the capslockkey=down then exit repeat
  end repeat


True, there are 12,288 separate images, but c'mon we're talking 1.9ghz
w/800mhz Rambus here!

The images are 3,700 bytes. I've got 256mb ram. I notice my WinXP page file
balloons to 700MB before it stalls. On the Mac I just get the spinning
lollipop of death.

Any tips, tricks, techniques?


David Kwinter



From david at kwinter.ca  Sun Jul 27 01:34:02 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Sun Jul 27 01:34:02 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <8463EF02-BFF9-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB48CCB1.1E99%david@kwinter.ca>

On 7/27/03 12:14 AM, "Alex Rice" <alrice at ARCplanning.com> wrote:

> David, great- I would like to download it.


Done! it can be found here:

http://www.kwinter.ca/dictionary.txt



If anyone is interested in a utility to cheat at those online games where
letters are scambled and your job is to find words in them, a la
Netscape/Games/Word Whomp, I can post that too :-)



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Sun Jul 27 01:50:01 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sun Jul 27 01:50:01 2003
Subject: Tiny images, mega headache 
In-Reply-To: <200307112102.RAA28656@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB4940F7.B59%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi David,

First of all I would try using lock/unlock screen ouside of the repeat loop.
That should speed it up.
Also I would suggest using buttons instead of images. Import your tiles to a
data card. Then your repeat could look like this:

lock screen
repeat with y=1 to 96
  repeat with x=1 to 128
    put x&"c"&y into iName
    set the icon of btn iName to the ID of img "water.png" of cd "data"
    if the capslockkey=down then exit repeat
  end repeat
  if the capslockkey=down then exit repeat
end repeat
unlock screen

Hope this helps,

Malte



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sun Jul 27 01:55:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Jul 27 01:55:01 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <BB48CCB1.1E99%david@kwinter.ca>
Message-ID: <40032797-BFFE-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 12:26  AM, David Kwinter wrote:
>
> Done! it can be found here:
>
> http://www.kwinter.ca/dictionary.txt

And I've put the Mac OS X dictionary file here for you Windows users.

http://mindlube.com/download/files/dict.txt

>
> If anyone is interested in a utility to cheat at those online games 
> where
> letters are scambled and your job is to find words in them, a la
> Netscape/Games/Word Whomp, I can post that too :-)

Hey my wife plays a lot of online word games. Hook me up!


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From david at kwinter.ca  Sun Jul 27 02:28:00 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Sun Jul 27 02:28:00 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <40032797-BFFE-11D7-914F-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB48D997.1EA0%david@kwinter.ca>

On 7/27/03 12:47 AM, "Alex Rice" <alrice at ARCplanning.com> wrote:

> On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 12:26  AM, David Kwinter wrote:
>> 
>> Done! it can be found here:
>> 
>> http://www.kwinter.ca/dictionary.txt
> 
> And I've put the Mac OS X dictionary file here for you Windows users.
> 
> http://mindlube.com/download/files/dict.txt
> 
>> 
>> If anyone is interested in a utility to cheat at those online games
>> where
>> letters are scambled and your job is to find words in them, a la
>> Netscape/Games/Word Whomp, I can post that too :-)
> 
> Hey my wife plays a lot of online word games. Hook me up!
> 
> 
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com


Here it is*:

http://www.kwinter.ca/wordman.rev

*I am not responsible for any misuse of this stack, it is strictly for
educational purposes only!



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Sun Jul 27 02:42:01 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Sun Jul 27 02:42:01 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <BB48D997.1EA0%david@kwinter.ca>
References: <BB48D997.1EA0%david@kwinter.ca>
Message-ID: <a05200f02bb49313ab6f3@[10.0.1.2]>

This might be of interest to you:

http://www.flexiblelearning.com/

click on XTalk Tools and you will see a dictionary builder
made with MC for PC & Mac

hth

sims
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Jul 27 03:28:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sun Jul 27 03:28:01 2003
Subject: Long File Names
In-Reply-To: <E91FBE06-BFEF-11D7-84D1-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <50E2E703-C00B-11D7-B769-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le dimanche, 27 juil 2003, ? 07:05 Europe/Brussels, Sannyasin 
Sivakatirswami a ?crit :

> Well, You can write a long file name but not read it... at least not 
> here in 2.0.1
> e.g.
>
> ## button 1 ##
> on mouseUp
>   ask file "enter"
>       ## Enter a file name of 150 characters)
>   put "hellO" into url ("file:"&it)
> end mouseUp
>
>
> ## the above will work ##
>
> ## button 1 ##
> on mouseUp
>   ask file "enter" ## Enter a file name of 150 characters)
>   put "hellO" into url ("file:"&it)
> end mouseUp
>
> ## the above will work ##
>
> ## button 2 ##
> on mouseUp
>   answer file "choose a long file name" with "OK"
>       ## choose the long file name you just saved above
>  put it
> end mouseUp
>
> what do you get?
>
>

the same as you, doesn't work  :

/Users/<myuserName>/Desktop/azertyazertyazertyazerty#23BB2D

it's a bug you have to report at bugzilla.


Sorry, can't help.
>
Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From ttasovac at Princeton.EDU  Sun Jul 27 03:54:00 2003
From: ttasovac at Princeton.EDU (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Sun Jul 27 03:54:00 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <a05200f02bb49313ab6f3@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <95096AA8-C00E-11D7-8611-0003937B95F4@princeton.edu>

by the way, changing spellcheck.mc to spellcheck.rev and opening it in 
rev 2.0.1 crashes revolution -- anybody else experiencing this?

On Nedelja, Jul 27, 2003, at 09:36 Europe/Belgrade, sims wrote:

> This might be of interest to you:
>
> http://www.flexiblelearning.com/
>
> click on XTalk Tools and you will see a dictionary builder
> made with MC for PC & Mac
>
> hth
>
> sims
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
>       Software - Internet Development - Consulting
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Sun Jul 27 04:33:01 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Sun Jul 27 04:33:01 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <95096AA8-C00E-11D7-8611-0003937B95F4@princeton.edu>
References: <95096AA8-C00E-11D7-8611-0003937B95F4@princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <a05200f03bb494b18c70c@[10.0.1.2]>

>by the way, changing spellcheck.mc to spellcheck.rev and opening it 
>in rev 2.0.1 crashes revolution -- anybody else experiencing this?


Haven't tried changing the ext but I can simply select it and open it up as is
from Rev and fiddle with it.

hth

sims
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From david at kwinter.ca  Sun Jul 27 04:57:00 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Sun Jul 27 04:57:00 2003
Subject: Tiny images, mega headache 
In-Reply-To: <BB4940F7.B59%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <BB48FC6F.1EA9%david@kwinter.ca>

YES!! Right on Malte! What an important lesson. Icons eh, who'd've thought.
I guess I that's a HyperCard trick I should've hung on to.

It's quick and no ram bloat. Thanks!



On 7/27/03 12:42 AM, "Malte Brill" <malte.brill at t-online.de> wrote:

> Hi David,
> 
> First of all I would try using lock/unlock screen ouside of the repeat loop.
> That should speed it up.
> Also I would suggest using buttons instead of images. Import your tiles to a
> data card. Then your repeat could look like this:
> 
> lock screen
> repeat with y=1 to 96
> repeat with x=1 to 128
>   put x&"c"&y into iName
>   set the icon of btn iName to the ID of img "water.png" of cd "data"
>   if the capslockkey=down then exit repeat
> end repeat
> if the capslockkey=down then exit repeat
> end repeat
> unlock screen
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Malte
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Sun Jul 27 05:30:00 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sun Jul 27 05:30:00 2003
Subject: Tile based engine [was: Tiny images, mega headache]
In-Reply-To: <200307252127.RAA05158@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB4974BA.B5B%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi David and all,

I am really interested in this topic. :-)
If you happen to create something you wish to share, please keep me posted.

I?d like to create a tile based engine and believe it is possible in rev (at
last for non isometric tiles)

What I would like to do (I hope you dont mind my pseydo coding):

Import a huge image
create an array [row of block,collumn of block,ID of image]

Analyze the imagedata in 8*8 (16*16) Pixel blocks

If block is unique
  store it as seperate image
  put its row and column number+the ID of the image into array
else
  throw it out
  put row and column+the ID of the first identical block into that array
end if

create a group of btns
read out the array
set the icons

I am not very experienced with manipulating the imagedata.

Now how do I turn this into Transscript?
Is there a way for isometric tiles?

Regards,

Malte



From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Sun Jul 27 05:38:00 2003
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham)
Date: Sun Jul 27 05:38:00 2003
Subject: Copying an image from a stack
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030727120533.00c493f0@pop.wanadoo.fr>

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:39:37 +0200, Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

> > ...
> > Anyway my real question is, if I can see an image in a stack while
> > under development,
> > how can I export it to another program?
>
>You can always "put img xxx into url"bin if its really a
>gif ;-)

Well, I'd just like it to go on the clipboard by point-and-click action, 
like other stuff I do in the IDE. Not possible?


> >
> > OT PS: I am not enjoying learning ImageReady to create my own animated
> > GIFs.
Stuff after this is OT, except that it speaks of a GUI that always 
surprises the heck out of me, which is the opposite of Dan Shafer's dictum 
given on the list yesterday

>Never surprise the user.

I agree that a surprised user is a distressed user, because I'm distressed! 
I guess I have never understood the 'universe of discourse' (a phrase a 
friend of mine used to use a lot) of Photoshop and its ilk.

>Yeah, ImageReady gifs are going well with MC/RR.
>Be sure to uncheck "optimize" or "optimized", RR could choke on that
>feature... ;-)

How? On my copy of ImageReady (version 2.0) there is only one flavour of 
animated GIF - the optimized one. If you don't use 'Save Optimized' then 
the file gets written in Photoshop format... I know this is OT, but I'm 
frustrated. There seems to be deep confusion between layers and frames, and 
it appears that a layer can 'have' several frames, while a frame can 'have' 
several layers! Just selecting all the frames to make black the transparent 
color (for example) turns out to be impossible or massively counterintuitive...

> > The Help system appears to have been written by someone living in a
> > different
> > universe from the one I'm in... ah well.
>
>Don't need no stinking help system :-D

In the days of manuals I used to read the whole thing from cover to cover 
before even installing the software (yes, SuperCard, Excel, MS Word, you 
name it). That way, I had trace memories of all the app's features, even if 
I couldn't remember exactly how to use them. I miss that opportunity with 
RunRev, which is why I will buy the printed docs.

Back to the grindstone.

Graham


---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jul 27 08:32:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun Jul 27 08:32:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <4EF3AD5B-BFEB-11D7-965F-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB492076.31617%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> Richard Gaskins suggests that perhaps developers of the world need to
> take the issue of cross-platform GUI compatibility by the horns and
> wrestle it to the ground.
...
> Bottom line: if we're going to be multi-platform developers, we have to
> learn to develop so our apps look and behave natively on all targeted
> platforms. Rev comes much, much closer to supporting that ideal than
> any IDE or language of which I am aware.

Agreed on all points.  But I guess here we get to the real question:  How do
we get Apple back to being a research-based (as opposed to a
Steve's-Whim-based) company?

The pre-NeXT Apple understood the difference between usability engineering
and graphic design.  And they had twice the marketshare.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Sun Jul 27 08:42:00 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Sun Jul 27 08:42:00 2003
Subject: drag & drop image
In-Reply-To: <BB492076.31617%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BB492076.31617%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f05bb4984e55308@[10.0.1.2]>

I can drag & drop a folder of images onto a rev cd and get them to 
display in players.

What I do not seem to be able to accomplish is to drag an image from 
a player and
have it display (be accepted by) another or app or appear on the desktop.

Is this possible?   How does one do it? [a small working example 
would be wonderful!]

tia

sims
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Jul 27 08:47:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun Jul 27 08:47:01 2003
Subject: [OT] Quick Quiz For HyperCarders
In-Reply-To: <v03130321bb491d73b48d@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <a05100301bb4701f919dd@[216.229.107.252]>
 <v03130321bb491d73b48d@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <a05100300bb498640d4cd@[216.229.107.114]>

>It's in the HyperCard About box - version 2.0, I think:
>
>   A day of acquaintance
>   And then the longer span of custom
>   But first --
>   The hour of astonishment.
>
>(I'm doing that from memory, so I may have gotten it a bit wrong, but
>that's the gist of it.)

Right on, Jeanne!...though it might have been HC version 1.2.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From jhurley at infostations.com  Sun Jul 27 10:34:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sun Jul 27 10:34:00 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <200307271249.IAA31821@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307271249.IAA31821@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210605bb499ea56c2b@[66.81.133.148]>

>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 01:21:27 -0600
>Subject: Re: Spell check for Rev?
>From: David Kwinter <david at kwinter.ca>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>(snip)
>
>Here it is*:
>
>http://www.kwinter.ca/wordman.rev



I should know how to deal with this but I don't. How do I translate 
this Explorer page into a RR file, or even the script as a text file?

I have a Jumble fan who would love this.

Jim


From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Sun Jul 27 11:00:00 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Sun Jul 27 11:00:00 2003
Subject: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276D9D@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

Well said, Dan.  Put another way, pattern recognition is a survival
mechanism.  Interrupt patterns, and people fear for their lives,
metaphorically speaking.

Mark Powell (Apple alumnus)

> When I said a few hundred posts ago...<snip>


From david at kwinter.ca  Sun Jul 27 12:31:01 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Sun Jul 27 12:31:01 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <a05210605bb499ea56c2b@[66.81.133.148]>
Message-ID: <BB4966E1.1EBD%david@kwinter.ca>

On 7/27/03 9:26 AM, "Jim Hurley" <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
> 
>  How do I translate
> this Explorer page into a RR file, or even the script as a text file?
> 
> I have a Jumble fan who would love this.
> 
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


Explorer on the Mac right, love the M$ Mac treatment here. I made page with
a link:

http://www.kwinter.ca/wordman.html



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sun Jul 27 12:44:00 2003
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com)
Date: Sun Jul 27 12:44:00 2003
Subject: Imageready
Message-ID: <a05210604bb49be0874bb@[192.168.1.100]>

Gee, I didn't find ImageReady that hard to use...it works like an 
animation stand with planes...

Build up the elements of animation with Layers then 'snapshot' each 
frame in the animation window. Make each frame look like you want 
with the layers, then move to the next frame - the last one shows the 
last state of what layers are switched on! Dissolves can be made by 
changing the transparency of intermediate frames. By switching the 
frames on in sequence, the animation is created.

You can even import short Quicktime movies, I think.

By the way, you can't select 'all the frames', you select 'all the 
layers', if that's what you want, but final transparency specs are 
determined in the compression palette. Your background (black?) 
should be your first layer.


>There seems to be deep confusion between layers and frames, and it 
>appears that a layer can 'have' several frames, while a frame can 
>'have' several layers! Just selecting all the frames to make black 
>the transparent color (for example) turns out to be impossible or 
>massively counterintuitive...


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
                      Stephen Barncard
            record production and surround mixing
             Email: mailto:stephen at barncard.com
                WEB http://www.barncard.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------


From david at kwinter.ca  Sun Jul 27 12:47:00 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Sun Jul 27 12:47:00 2003
Subject: Tile based engine [was: Tiny images, mega headache]
In-Reply-To: <BB4974BA.B5B%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <BB496A85.1EC1%david@kwinter.ca>

Malte, let me know more about what you have in mind.

Doing what you've outlined wouldn't be too difficult, but considering any
"organic" image - non computer generated, there would be virtually zero
repeated 8x8 tiles. "Tilating" a picture may allow for some interesting
visual effects, but please share more about your idea.

My interest in tiling is kind of the opposite, my map editor starts with
12,000+ tiles, then when you're done editing the level, a script "import
snapshot"s them together making one big image, while a different script
analyzes the buttons and populates an array about the map's characteristics.
The tricks that could be put into an tile-engine for my use would consist of
categorizing tiles so that when the "land-stamp" tool is used, clicking on
the edge of already existing land only produces new land where appropriate
and uses tiles which line up smoothly with their neighbours.

I'll be on vacation until mid-August, while my girlfriend trains for a
triathlon, I'll be working on my game :-) The editor should be done by the
time I get back, I'll make it open-rev then.


David Kwinter


On 7/27/03 4:23 AM, "Malte Brill" <malte.brill at t-online.de> wrote:

> Hi David and all,
> 
> I am really interested in this topic. :-)
> If you happen to create something you wish to share, please keep me posted.
> 
> I?d like to create a tile based engine and believe it is possible in rev (at
> last for non isometric tiles)
> 
> What I would like to do (I hope you dont mind my pseydo coding):
> 
> Import a huge image
> create an array [row of block,collumn of block,ID of image]
> 
> Analyze the imagedata in 8*8 (16*16) Pixel blocks
> 
> If block is unique
> store it as seperate image
> put its row and column number+the ID of the image into array
> else
> throw it out
> put row and column+the ID of the first identical block into that array
> end if
> 
> create a group of btns
> read out the array
> set the icons
> 
> I am not very experienced with manipulating the imagedata.
> 
> Now how do I turn this into Transscript?
> Is there a way for isometric tiles?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Malte
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dan at shafermedia.com  Sun Jul 27 12:52:00 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun Jul 27 12:52:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <200307271249.IAA31821@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1F37B5D6-C05A-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Sunday, July 27, 2003,Richard Gaskins scribed as follows:

> How do
> we get Apple back to being a research-based (as opposed to a
> Steve's-Whim-based) company?
>
> The pre-NeXT Apple understood the difference between usability 
> engineering
> and graphic design.  And they had twice the marketshare.
>
There is a lot of consternation within and without Apple about the Aqua 
interface and the degree to which it obfuscates or reduces the 
simplicity of the traditional Apple GUI. I see it as a mixed bag. There 
is some stuff in OS X which I have wanted Apple to fix in the old GUI 
for years. But there is also some stuff that's just downright confusing.

I guess we have to look at this as an evolving thing. Hopefully, 
developer feedback will get a hearing and some of the schmutz that's 
crept into the UI will get eaten by a monster and the rest of us can 
bask in the remaining pastures of elegance.




From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Sun Jul 27 13:05:00 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Sun Jul 27 13:05:00 2003
Subject: Creating Shared Directories
Message-ID: <000001c35468$99a05760$f600000a@porthos>

I want to automatically create a series of directories each names P100 to
P999.
Each directory should be individually shared with the owner ideally being
the name of the directory.
ie P456 is created, shared and owned by User P456

I know Rev can create directories but can it apply the necessary settings I
need ?

TIA

Gary Rathbone




From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Jul 27 13:05:43 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun Jul 27 13:05:43 2003
Subject: Copying an image from a stack
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030727120533.00c493f0@pop.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <EFB758E1-C05B-11D7-9B8A-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Graham,

>> ...
>> You can always "put img xxx into url"bin if its really a gif ;-)
> Well, I'd just like it to go on the clipboard by point-and-click 
> action, like other stuff I do in the IDE. Not possible?

I am not sure but i think since a gif file is a multi-layer thing, only 
the first frame would make it to
the clipboard, if at all...

I may be wrong, but that's the way the clipboard works... Only one 
piece at a time...

...
>> Yeah, ImageReady gifs are going well with MC/RR.
>> Be sure to uncheck "optimize" or "optimized", RR could choke on that
>> feature... ;-)
>
> How? On my copy of ImageReady (version 2.0) there is only one flavour 
> of animated GIF -
> the optimized one. If you don't use 'Save Optimized' then the file 
> gets written in Photoshop format...

Sorry for the confusion.
I mixed this up with OTHER GIF creator apps.

They tend to create "optimized" gif images that will not play 
satisfyingly in MC/RR...
(Holes in the animation etc...)

ImageReady is OK ;-)

> Graham

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From katir at hindu.org  Sun Jul 27 14:10:00 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun Jul 27 14:10:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <1F37B5D6-C05A-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <083F3851-C065-11D7-84D1-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

For the untutored... can you define/give some definition/list some 
aspects of the UI that are  "schmutz"  in the interests of newbies not 
following suit!


On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 07:45  AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

>> How do
>> we get Apple back to being a research-based (as opposed to a
>> Steve's-Whim-based) company?
>>
>> The pre-NeXT Apple understood the difference between usability 
>> engineering
>> and graphic design.  And they had twice the marketshare.
>>
> There is a lot of consternation within and without Apple about the 
> Aqua interface and the degree to which it obfuscates or reduces the 
> simplicity of the traditional Apple GUI. I see it as a mixed bag. 
> There is some stuff in OS X which I have wanted Apple to fix in the 
> old GUI for years. But there is also some stuff that's just downright 
> confusing.
>
> I guess we have to look at this as an evolving thing. Hopefully, 
> developer feedback will get a hearing and some of the schmutz that's 
> crept into the UI will get eaten by a monster and the rest of us can 
> bask in the remaining pastures of elegance.



From jeanne at runrev.com  Sun Jul 27 14:20:01 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun Jul 27 14:20:01 2003
Subject: Creating Shared Directories
In-Reply-To: <000001c35468$99a05760$f600000a@porthos>
Message-ID: <v0313032abb49d47a9cee@[10.0.1.2]>

At 10:57 AM -0700 7/27/03, Gary Rathbone wrote:
>I want to automatically create a series of directories each names P100 to
>P999.
>Each directory should be individually shared with the owner ideally being
>the name of the directory.
>ie P456 is created, shared and owned by User P456
>
>I know Rev can create directories but can it apply the necessary settings I
>need ?

Which platform do you need this for? There's no specific Transcript command
to do this, but my guess is you can easily use "do as AppleScript" (Mac OS
or OS X) or the shell function (OS X, Unix, Windows) for this.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sun Jul 27 14:30:01 2003
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Sun Jul 27 14:30:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
Message-ID: <a05210606bb49d5c70575@[192.168.1.100]>

here's a start.

http://www.asktog.com/basics/firstPrinciples.html

As far as I'm concerned, Tog is GOD when it comes to UI...
Bruce Tognazzini, that is...the former head of the Apple HUI 
team...he turned it into a science..



>For the untutored... can you define/give some definition/list some 
>aspects of the UI that are  "schmutz"  in the interests of newbies 
>not following suit!
>


From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Sun Jul 27 14:30:25 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Sun Jul 27 14:30:25 2003
Subject: Creating Shared Directories
In-Reply-To: <v0313032abb49d47a9cee@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <000001c35474$833676b0$f600000a@porthos>

Its for Windows 2000 server... As there's no specific Transcript commands
then I'll go down the shell route.
Many Thanks
Gary Rathbone

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jeanne A. E. DeVoto
> Sent: 27 July 2003 20:14
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Creating Shared Directories
> 
> At 10:57 AM -0700 7/27/03, Gary Rathbone wrote:
> >I want to automatically create a series of directories each names P100 to
> >P999.
> >Each directory should be individually shared with the owner ideally being
> >the name of the directory.
> >ie P456 is created, shared and owned by User P456
> >
> >I know Rev can create directories but can it apply the necessary settings
> I
> >need ?
> 
> Which platform do you need this for? There's no specific Transcript
> command
> to do this, but my guess is you can easily use "do as AppleScript" (Mac OS
> or OS X) or the shell function (OS X, Unix, Windows) for this.
> 
> --
> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
> Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
> http://www.runrev.com/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jul 27 14:47:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun Jul 27 14:47:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <083F3851-C065-11D7-84D1-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <BB497873.3164D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> For the untutored... can you define/give some definition/list some
> aspects of the UI that are  "schmutz"  in the interests of newbies not
> following suit!


From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Jul 27 15:33:00 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Sun Jul 27 15:33:00 2003
Subject: Sending messages between applications
Message-ID: <000401c3547d$52578b20$efadc050@Jez2>

Is it possible to send/receive messages between two independent
applications built in Revolution? Or do they have to be merged and built
as a single executable?




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sun Jul 27 16:29:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Jul 27 16:29:00 2003
Subject: downloading .rev files [was Re: Spell check for Rev?]
In-Reply-To: <a05210605bb499ea56c2b@[66.81.133.148]>
Message-ID: <5A41D208-C078-11D7-BCD9-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 09:26  AM, Jim Hurley wrote:
>> http://www.kwinter.ca/wordman.rev
>
> I should know how to deal with this but I don't. How do I translate 
> this Explorer page into a RR file, or even the script as a text file?

This comes up pretty frequently. David's wordman.rev was just a spur of 
the moment thing... so this information is just so people are aware of 
it in general:

If you are putting a .rev file on a webserver, but when people download 
it displays in the browser: it's not the user's fault, or their web 
browser's fault. The fault is the configuration of the web server. The 
web server does not know what mime-type to send with a .rev file.

IF your web server is running Apache (very likely), and the 
configuration allows overrides by users (pretty likely), the solution 
is: create a file named .htaccess (note first character is a ".") Edit 
the file with a text editor in plain text mode. Put the .htaccess file 
into your web folder. Done. This is the .htaccess file I found useful 
on my website:

AddType application/octet-stream dmg
AddType application/octet-stream gz
AddType application/octet-stream rev

Now the user's web browser will not display any of these files types, 
it will just download them to disk.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Sun Jul 27 16:33:01 2003
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham)
Date: Sun Jul 27 16:33:01 2003
Subject: Controlling animated GIFs
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030727232037.00c7c710@pop.wanadoo.fr>

I see from the TD that one can start, stop and loop an animated GIF and 
also make it loop back and forth (palindrome style). It seems odd that one 
can do the palindrome trick but can't just ask the GIF to play backwards - 
is there a way of doing this that I've missed? Also, I'm having to make 
several copies of one animation at different frame rates so as to get an 
apparent variation in speed from the user's point of view. Again, is there 
any way of altering the GIF frame rate from within RunRev? Just thought I'd 
ask.

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  




From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 27 16:38:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 27 16:38:00 2003
Subject: Sending messages between applications
In-Reply-To: <000401c3547d$52578b20$efadc050@Jez2>
Message-ID: <A4D51166-C079-11D7-A26E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 02:26 PM, Jez wrote:

> Is it possible to send/receive messages between two independent
> applications built in Revolution? Or do they have to be merged and  
> built
> as a single executable?

There are some platform specific solutions that others can address much  
better than I.

1.
There is a group working on general IPC (and RPC) for Revolution.   
Progress is slow.  There are many observers, a few are involved in  
discussion, and at the moment just three are active, one of whom seems  
to generate more words than real product.  (me)

2.
The "open process for update" based communication might work on some  
platforms.  It does not work well enough for me to use on Windows.  For  
some situations, shell() may work, but there are some limitations to  
stdin and stdout, anyway.

3.
On most platforms and often between platforms there are ways to  
communicate using files, but it can get tricky.

4.
The most general approach is to use tcp/ip.  This will work for  
intra-computer communication as well as that between computers.   
However, it does require tcp/ip to be set up on the computer and for  
isolated computers or those with occasional dialup adaptors, only, this  
setup can be a little tricky.  I think the most important product of #1  
above will be something along this line.

In the mean time I have a script library I may just give away if there  
is an interest.  It is called "Simple Remote Send".  It allows one  
application to send a message to a stack in another application.  It  
has no security.  It uses UDP, so you can lose messages if you send too  
many too fast or send across an unreliable medium.  The caveats in the  
comments take up more lines than the actual handlers.  To improve  
reliability, this should be enhanced to handle TCP.  This may be  
blocked by firewalls on the Internet and even many WANs, and an  
enhancement should include a channel established by a "client" for  
two-way communications if this is needed.  As it is, any program that  
accepts remote messages leaves its computer open to attack from any  
attacker who reads the script and can send general UDP packets into  
your net, so use this only behind a firewall or on an isolated LAN or  
computer.

Dar

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Jul 27 16:43:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun Jul 27 16:43:00 2003
Subject: Controlling animated GIFs
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030727232037.00c7c710@pop.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <5688451C-C07A-11D7-9B8A-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Graham,

> I see from the TD that one can start, stop and loop an animated GIF
> and also make it loop back and forth (palindrome style). It seems odd
> that one can do the palindrome trick but can't just ask the GIF to play
> backwards - is there a way of doing this that I've missed?

Not per se...

You will have to display frames in reverse order manually...

> Also, I'm having to make several copies of one animation at different
> frame rates so as to get an apparent variation in speed from the user's
> point of view. Again, is there any way of altering the GIF frame rate 
> from
> within RunRev? Just thought I'd ask.

No, looks like the frame rate is fixed (in the fileformat)...

Again you will have to do this manually...

Accidentally there is a small stack on the contributor site of RR ;-)

Look for "The taming of the animated gif" down the page...

Maybe you already did :-)

> Graham

Hope that helps...

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Sun Jul 27 16:46:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Jul 27 16:46:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <BB497873.3164D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B20EF359-C07A-11D7-BCD9-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 01:39  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Top 10 Reasons the Apple Dock Sucks
> <http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.html>

Get LaunchBar- you will hide the Dock and never us it again :-)
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/2409

I know Apple deserves massive flame-age, although one has to admit a 
few things good about OS X UI:

- sheets are good invention (sheets are document-centric modal dialogs)
- drop shadows and antialiasing (easier on the eyes)
- real buffering by the window manager  (easier on the eyes)

Whenever I work on my Windows2000 box I am always surprised when there 
are chunky areas all over the screen as the screen redraws when 
launching an app or switching apps. And it has jaggy text rendering. I 
guess they added font smoothing in XP though.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 27 17:14:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 27 17:14:00 2003
Subject: pi approximation day [OT]
In-Reply-To: <1E85311A-BD59-11D7-8C1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <B1610DEE-C07E-11D7-A26E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 04:00 PM, Sarah wrote:

> Yes, LF as a constant was only added in Rev 2.
> It is equivalent to CR, return and linefeed.

A reasonable practice is to use 'return' for the Revolution new-line  
character (there is no NL constant in Revolution) and 'LF' in ASCII  
communication even though they are encoded the same.  I use LF for  
both, perhaps to the annoyance of those who adhere to that reasonable  
practice.  In the movie Tron is an old assembler program represented by  
a teletype machine--that's me.  The name "return" sounds too much like  
the name of the ASCII carriage return for me to feel comfortable using  
it.

I apologize for the confusion in the use of LF

Dar


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From rpresender at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 27 17:41:01 2003
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Sun Jul 27 17:41:01 2003
Subject: Default button on OSX
Message-ID: <67818D40-C082-11D7-B7D7-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

Hi,

As a work-around to the background problem with default buttons on OSX,
I am using the following procedure:

1. My splash stack has a colored image layer on which I have a default 
button:
   Button data: standard, default = true, 64 wide, 28 high, visible= 
true, opaque=false.

2, Created roundRect graphic:  size 74 wide 36 high, visible=true, 
opaque=false, line size= 8 and roundRadius= 4.  Set the border color 
(Color and Patterns) to blend in with the background color.

3. Placed the graphic over the default button and only had minor 
adjustments.

Improvement to this procedure will be appreciated.

Regards ... Bob



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Jul 27 17:42:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Jul 27 17:42:00 2003
Subject: Memory Limits (was Tiny images, mega headache)
In-Reply-To: <BB48CB0E.1E95%david@kwinter.ca>
Message-ID: <9838CFAC-C082-11D7-A26E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 12:19 AM, David Kwinter wrote:

> The images are 3,700 bytes. I've got 256mb ram. I notice my WinXP page  
> file
> balloons to 700MB before it stalls. On the Mac I just get the spinning
> lollipop of death.

I know you got a solution, but I wonder about people's experience with  
using lots of memory.

 From memory...

Revolution will lock up on my OS X when adding chars to a string at  
about a string length of 700MB.  However, if I create random strings,  
_both_ Revolution and Finder get a spinning icon and the other apps  
become very, very slow at a little over 500MB.  If I kill Revolution,  
the other apps speed up after a few minutes.  I didn't take time to  
explore these.

Dar
(My own memory is limited, so who am I to complain?)
************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Jul 27 18:38:01 2003
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun Jul 27 18:38:01 2003
Subject: No blend for non-Mac OS'?
In-Reply-To: <200307261404.KAA27539@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB49B019.1F44%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello klaus,

> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:55:18 +0200
> Subject: Re: No blend for non-Mac OS'?
> From: Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de>

> Use the "blendlevel" prop of the image(= degree of opacity :-)
> 
> Works with JPG and PNG on all platform...
----------
Ok, thanks. I didn't think there was a difference.

Ken N.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jul 27 19:31:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun Jul 27 19:31:01 2003
Subject: Sending messages between applications
In-Reply-To: <000401c3547d$52578b20$efadc050@Jez2>
Message-ID: <BB49BB0C.31674%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jez wrote:

> Is it possible to send/receive messages between two independent
> applications built in Revolution? Or do they have to be merged and built
> as a single executable?

You have a lot more flexibility and speed if they both use the same engine,
but if they must use separate engines you could use sockets.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Jul 27 19:34:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun Jul 27 19:34:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <B20EF359-C07A-11D7-BCD9-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB49BBC9.31676%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> I know Apple deserves massive flame-age, although one has to admit a
> few things good about OS X UI:
> 
> - sheets are good invention (sheets are document-centric modal dialogs)
> - drop shadows and antialiasing (easier on the eyes)
> - real buffering by the window manager  (easier on the eyes)

Precisely.  Lots of good stuff, in OS 9 too.  They just don't know when to
stop. ;)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Jul 27 22:32:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun Jul 27 22:32:01 2003
Subject: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
In-Reply-To: <6DB8B746-BFD0-11D7-965F-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB4A0FF2.126F%scott@tactilemedia.com>

> A checkbox I can't uncheck is a surprise. I never (or at least almost
> never) encounter such beasts. Put one into your program at the very
> high risk that I will be sufficiently uncomfortable that I will go
> away. And, what is perhaps more sinister and important, I will probably
> never tell you why I went away.

Does this mean that any time you've encountered a preference group in an
application or the system that contains disabled checkboxes, you stop using
the program/system immediately and trash it?

I wonder how you get along without QuickTime (System
Preferences/QuickTime/Connection tab), non US keyboard layouts (System
Preferences/International/Input Menu Tab), the Mouse control panel (with a
trackpad), or a modem (System Preferences/Network/Modem tab)?

OK, maybe you have a T1 or DSL so you don't use a modem...

The point is, Apple is just as guilty of violating their own user guidelines
because, as has been stated on numerous occasions in many forums, the
guidelines are just that: guidelines, not laws etched in stone.  Speaking as
a more liberal UI designer, I would say that Apple's UI guidelines are a
great resource for developing effective UIs, but the bottom line for any
project (and the foundation for the guidelines in first place) is user
testing, regardless of what Apple says is good or not.  And while
"non-standard" UIs may indeed confuse or otherwise inhibit the effective use
of an application, there would be no innovation in UI development if nobody
broke "the rules".

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From dan at shafermedia.com  Mon Jul 28 00:47:00 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon Jul 28 00:47:00 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1675 - 15 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200307272039.QAA09976@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <035E3834-C0BE-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

Well, just as one example, the pulsing default button in Aqua. That 
feels like the kind of eye candy that was added to the UI just because 
they could. It doesn't convey a single iota more information than a 
bold button that is clearly the default.

The spiffy visual effects on opening and closing windows in the Finder 
is another example. Cool, but what's the real purpose?

The new file dialogs in OS X are noticeably less efficient for users, 
though they do have some advantages at the application level according 
to a couple of OS X developer friends.

One of my favorites: I can't shut down my computer without confirming 
my desire to do so (although there are a couple of obscure key combos 
that bypass that confimer).


On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 01:39 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> For the untutored... can you define/give some definition/list some
> aspects of the UI that are  "schmutz"  in the interests of newbies not
> following suit!



From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Mon Jul 28 01:09:01 2003
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Mon Jul 28 01:09:01 2003
Subject: Long File Names
In-Reply-To: <50E2E703-C00B-11D7-B769-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <E8806F60-C0C0-11D7-89A7-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 01:21 AM, Yves COPPE wrote:

> the same as you, doesn't work  :
>
> /Users/<myuserName>/Desktop/azertyazertyazertyazerty#23BB2D
>
> it's a bug you have to report at bugzilla.

It is a limitation with the current carbon API.  When apple fixes it, 
every app will be able to write long file names.



Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jul 28 01:12:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Jul 28 01:12:01 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1675 - 15 msgs
In-Reply-To: <035E3834-C0BE-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB4A0B03.316A0%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> Well, just as one example, the pulsing default button in Aqua. That
> feels like the kind of eye candy that was added to the UI just because
> they could. It doesn't convey a single iota more information than a
> bold button that is clearly the default.

According to at least one paper I read a couple years back, the pulsing
default buttons might actually be an anti-feature:  the paper was on visual
distractors, exploring the balance between engaging graphics that support
the central goal of the experience and flashy graphics that draw attention
away from the central goal.

In an alert dialog, the critical goal is to present a message.  Making sure
the users reads "OK" is way down the list after making sure they read the
message itself.  Yet the pulsing button is visually dominant, drawing
attention to itself and away from its raison d'etre....

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Jul 28 01:19:01 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon Jul 28 01:19:01 2003
Subject: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
In-Reply-To: <BB4A0FF2.126F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <00d101c354cf$18da29a0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

Scott,

I think Dan was talking about checkboxes that are *enabled* but can't be
unchecked (or checked for that matter). If a checkbox is disabled, it is
expected that you can't check or uncheck it. If I'm wrong, I'll step
back and let you two talk it out. :-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Scott Rossi
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:26 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
> 
> 
> > A checkbox I can't uncheck is a surprise. I never (or at 
> least almost
> > never) encounter such beasts. Put one into your program at the very 
> > high risk that I will be sufficiently uncomfortable that I will go 
> > away. And, what is perhaps more sinister and important, I will 
> > probably never tell you why I went away.
> 
> Does this mean that any time you've encountered a preference 
> group in an application or the system that contains disabled 
> checkboxes, you stop using the program/system immediately and 
> trash it?
> 
> I wonder how you get along without QuickTime (System 
> Preferences/QuickTime/Connection tab), non US keyboard 
> layouts (System Preferences/International/Input Menu Tab), 
> the Mouse control panel (with a trackpad), or a modem (System 
> Preferences/Network/Modem tab)?
> 
> OK, maybe you have a T1 or DSL so you don't use a modem...
> 
> The point is, Apple is just as guilty of violating their own 
> user guidelines because, as has been stated on numerous 
> occasions in many forums, the guidelines are just that: 
> guidelines, not laws etched in stone.  Speaking as a more 
> liberal UI designer, I would say that Apple's UI guidelines 
> are a great resource for developing effective UIs, but the 
> bottom line for any project (and the foundation for the 
> guidelines in first place) is user testing, regardless of 
> what Apple says is good or not.  And while "non-standard" UIs 
> may indeed confuse or otherwise inhibit the effective use of 
> an application, there would be no innovation in UI 
> development if nobody broke "the rules".
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Mon Jul 28 01:44:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Jul 28 01:44:01 2003
Subject: UTF8 and Google API
Message-ID: <EE08076F-C0C5-11D7-8D5E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

I'm playing around with Google APIs and it says that all requests are 
supposed to be UTF-8 encoded. Funny thing is, it works if I use normal 
text encoding, but get a 500 server error if I attempt to UTF encode it 
first. Any ideas?

-- in revSoap library, revSoapRpcRequest function

-- this causes 500 server error
post uniEncode(tSOAPEnvelope, "UTF8") to url pUrl
-- this works fine
post tSOAPEnvelope to url pUrl

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Mon Jul 28 02:21:01 2003
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Mon Jul 28 02:21:01 2003
Subject: UTF8 and Google API
In-Reply-To: <EE08076F-C0C5-11D7-8D5E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <EE08076F-C0C5-11D7-8D5E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <p06001208bb4a7c698f87@[192.168.123.7]>

At 12:37 am -0600 28/7/03, Alex Rice wrote:
>I'm playing around with Google APIs and it says that all requests
>are supposed to be UTF-8 encoded. Funny thing is, it works if I use
>normal text encoding, but get a 500 server error if I attempt to UTF
>encode it first. Any ideas?
>
>-- in revSoap library, revSoapRpcRequest function
>
>-- this causes 500 server error
>post uniEncode(tSOAPEnvelope, "UTF8") to url pUrl
>-- this works fine
>post tSOAPEnvelope to url pUrl

I've no knowledge of Google APis, but I'm guessing it doesn't work 
because you're encoding the xml tags and not just the data elements 
of the xml.

I'm also guessing it works without utf-8 encoding because your data 
contains nothing outside of the basic ASCII character set.

A lot of guessing on a Monday morning. :)

Cheers
Dave


From andre.rombauts at win.be  Mon Jul 28 03:55:01 2003
From: andre.rombauts at win.be (Andre Rombauts)
Date: Mon Jul 28 03:55:01 2003
Subject: No more K12 education licence?
Message-ID: <001201c354e4$ed9f1b90$9e26fea9@piran>

I bought a K12 education licence 1 year ago (or so). Now I don't see any reference to K12 education licence on Runrev site... :-( What happened?...

Andr? Rombauts
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From gayakenitin at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 07:02:00 2003
From: gayakenitin at yahoo.com (Nitin)
Date: Mon Jul 28 07:02:00 2003
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <20030722071530.64668.qmail@web80605.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi All
 
I am loading controls on  window at run time. Now if I want to change the control order of the controls run-time. Is there any solution
Any Help would be appreciated
 
~Nitin
 


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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From dsimpson at dotcomsolutionsinc.net  Mon Jul 28 07:02:46 2003
From: dsimpson at dotcomsolutionsinc.net (David Simpson)
Date: Mon Jul 28 07:02:46 2003
Subject: Any way to remove white line behind tabbed folder button with RR2.01?
Message-ID: <007401c35165$737aa4b0$0700010a@red>

When upgrading from RR 1.1.1 to 2.0.1 I now see a thick white line or bar
about 1/3 the height of my tabbed folder buttons. I think that it is
possible to notice this artifact only because I use a brushed metal
background on each of my stack cards.
Is there a setting I should be changing somewhere to solve this issue with
Revolution 2.0.1? (This issue also occurs when creating a new tabbed folder
button.)


David Simpson
www.dotcomsolutionsinc.net



From themacguy at elp.rr.com  Mon Jul 28 07:03:12 2003
From: themacguy at elp.rr.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Mon Jul 28 07:03:12 2003
Subject: Crashing while printing a card w/player object
Message-ID: <BCC25EBA-BD7E-11D7-8EFF-000A95763ABC@elp.rr.com>

I decided to test MetaCard 2.5 against the crashing problem (print a 
card with a QT Player object referencing an on-disk movie). Yes, it 
crashes. So it appears to be the engine and not anything Rev-specific. 
(Well, now that they own the engine, I guess it -is- Rev-specific, eh?)

Barry



From rtamesis at mac.com  Mon Jul 28 07:03:38 2003
From: rtamesis at mac.com (Richard Tamesis)
Date: Mon Jul 28 07:03:38 2003
Subject: Default button background in OS X
Message-ID: <E9DB1B3E-BEAF-11D7-A6CB-0003938E15DC@mac.com>

I don't know if this is a bug or not. I'm using Revolution 2.0.2 under 
OS X. I imported a colored image to use as a background for my stack, 
whose fill color is white. When I add a button, the white fill of the 
stack shows up around the button rather than the image if I set the 
button as a default button. If I don't set it as a default button, then 
this doesn't occur. How can I prevent this from happening if I set it 
as the default button?



From plsntbreez at mac.com  Mon Jul 28 07:04:06 2003
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian K. Maher)
Date: Mon Jul 28 07:04:06 2003
Subject: Newbie - MainStack Question
Message-ID: <BD1A9B39-BF6D-11D7-8BE3-000393020FF0@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I am new to Revolution (but have done development for a long time in 
many languages).

I am trying to understand the best way to design a database application 
using Revolution.

I have noticed that handlers in the main stack (i.e. in the Stack 
script) are automatically seen by all sub stacks.

For example, an openStack handler in the main stack will be invoked 
when a sub stack opens and has no openStack handler of its own.

This is leading me to question whether I should (or want to) use the 
main stack for anything other than generic handlers that my application 
needs.  I am thinking about simply making the main stack invisible and 
using only sub stacks for my applications windows.

Can anyone give me any insights on this?  Am I missing something here?

Thanks, Brian Maher



From stephenREVOLUTON at barncard.com  Mon Jul 28 07:04:34 2003
From: stephenREVOLUTON at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Mon Jul 28 07:04:34 2003
Subject: Imageready
Message-ID: <a05210602bb49bbb4e906@[192.168.1.100]>

Gee, I didn't find ImageReady that hard to use...it works like an 
animation stand with planes...

Build up the elements of animation with Layers then 'snapshot' each 
frame in the animation window. Make each frame look like you want 
with the layers, then move to the next frame - the last one shows the 
last state of what layers are switched on! Dissolves can be made by 
changing the transparency of intermediate frames. By switching the 
frames on in sequence, the animation is created.

You can even import short Quicktime movies, I think.

By the way, you can't select 'all the frames', you select 'all the 
layers', if that's what you want, but final transparency specs are 
determined in the compression palette. Your background (black?) 
should be your first layer.


>There seems to be deep confusion between layers and frames, and it 
>appears that a layer can 'have' several frames, while a frame can 
>'have' several layers! Just selecting all the frames to make black 
>the transparent color (for example) turns out to be impossible or 
>massively counterintuitive...


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
                      Stephen Barncard
            record production and surround mixing
             Email: mailto:stephen at barncard.com
                WEB http://www.barncard.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------


From vikramsingh at mailandnews.com  Mon Jul 28 07:38:00 2003
From: vikramsingh at mailandnews.com (Vikram Singh)
Date: Mon Jul 28 07:38:00 2003
Subject: ClipboardData w/CGI
Message-ID: <3F2B669B@mailandnews.com>

Can you use clipboardData with an MC/Rev CGI script? I dont seem to get it 
working here..

Regards

Vikram



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 08:04:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Jul 28 08:04:00 2003
Subject: Default button background in OS X
In-Reply-To: <E9DB1B3E-BEAF-11D7-A6CB-0003938E15DC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20030728125653.78962.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Richard Tamesis <rtamesis at mac.com> wrote:
> I don't know if this is a bug or not. I'm using
> Revolution 2.0.2 under 
> OS X. I imported a colored image to use as a
> background for my stack, 
> whose fill color is white. When I add a button, the
> white fill of the 
> stack shows up around the button rather than the
> image if I set the 
> button as a default button. If I don't set it as a
> default button, then 
> this doesn't occur. How can I prevent this from
> happening if I set it 
> as the default button?
> 
> 

Hi Richard,

If my memory serves me well (and sometimes I ought to
fire the lazy bastard) this is a known problem, and on
the fix-list for Revolution 2.1
In the meantime, stick with the standard white or
striped background -- Revolution will give it the
right one, depending on the stack style :
- palette/modal/modeless gets stripes
- toplevel is white, unless you set the
backgroundPattern of the stack to false [*]

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

[*] this is because in the Aqua-HIG, documents have a
white background, and Revolution assumes that a
topLevel stack is a document, not a palette or a
dialog box.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 08:07:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Jul 28 08:07:00 2003
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20030722071530.64668.qmail@web80605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030728130035.89700.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Nitin wrote:
> Hi All
>  
> I am loading controls on  window at run time. Now if
> I want to change the control order of the controls
> run-time. Is there any solution
> Any Help would be appreciated
>  
> ~Nitin
>  

Hi Nitin,

Check out the entry for the 'layer' property in the
Transcript Dictionary.
For example :
  set the layer of fld "Foobar" to 1
  -- will send field "Foobar" all the way to the back

If you need to relayer controls that are grouped, make
sure you also read the entry for the
'relayerGroupedControls' global property.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Jul 28 08:33:00 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon Jul 28 08:33:00 2003
Subject: Sending messages between applications
In-Reply-To: <A4D51166-C079-11D7-A26E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <A4D51166-C079-11D7-A26E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bb4ad313071d@[216.229.107.28]>

>There is a group working on general IPC (and RPC) for Revolution.

Hi Jez,

If you would like to see what Jan Schenkel, Dar, the rest of the 
group, & moi have been up to, visit 
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/revolution_ipc>.

You can download Jan's basic IPC library & test stacks, Dar's data 
encapsulation and documentation stacks, and a working version of 
Serendipity Database--Binary in client/server form.  A new releases 
of the library & SDB C/S should be available within a week or so.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Mon Jul 28 09:01:01 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Mon Jul 28 09:01:01 2003
Subject: drag & drop image anyone?
Message-ID: <a05200f00bb4adba3c507@[10.0.1.2]>

I can drag & drop a folder of images onto a rev cd and get them to 
display in players.

What I do not seem to be able to accomplish is to drag an image from 
a player and
have it display (be accepted by) another or app or appear on the 
desktop as a file.

Is this possible?   How does one do it? [a small working example 
would be wonderful!]

Anyone know how to do this?

tia

sims
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Mon Jul 28 10:31:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Jul 28 10:31:00 2003
Subject: UTF8 and Google API
In-Reply-To: <p06001208bb4a7c698f87@[192.168.123.7]>
Message-ID: <883F3BC8-C10F-11D7-8015-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 01:13  AM, Dave Cragg wrote:
>
> I've no knowledge of Google APis, but I'm guessing it doesn't work 
> because you're encoding the xml tags and not just the data elements of 
> the xml.

Probably right. Hm... I thought XML documents were allowed to be 
Unicode text, start to finish. Then what is the point of having a 
prolog in the document that says:

<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?>


> I'm also guessing it works without utf-8 encoding because your data 
> contains nothing outside of the basic ASCII character set.

Yes- this is true I think.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch  Mon Jul 28 10:42:00 2003
From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo)
Date: Mon Jul 28 10:42:00 2003
Subject: Bug with quote and put URL 
In-Reply-To: <1058043718.1642.269.camel@www.kmax.net>
Message-ID: <BB4B09AC.B8A9%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>

Hello everybody!
I have a not very funny bug to present:-)
Here is the code and it works perfectly:

*****
set the itemdelimiter to tab
put item 1 to -2 of chemin into chemin
put chemin &"/Data/French.rev" into cheminloc1


--  IMPORTATION Des FICHIER FRANCAIS (FRENCHOBJ.TXT et FrenchMsg.txt) VERS
--  LES CHAMPS DE LA CARTE 2
   
     
put "put URL"&& QUOTE&"file:" &cheminloc1 &QUOTE &&"into field" && QUOTE
&"messages"&QUOTE&&"of card id 1032 of me"  into fich_a_importer
     
do fich_a_importer

delete line 1 of fld "Objets" of card id 1032 of me --j'efface le titre de
la liste
*****
     
OK, all the file is correctly in the field Messages, fine.

The imported text is a tabuled text.

If I have in the text ((tab) it's when I use the tabkey):

coucou (tab) gag (tab) haha

all is good BUT if the text is with a quote:

"coucou" (tab) gag (tab) "haha"

I obtain double quote!!

""coucou"" (tab) "gag" (tab) ""ahaha""

grrrrr.....

Shure it a bug!

No?? It's me???


Thank you to say why!!!
Friendly

Fran?ois
-------------- 
Fran?ois Cuneo
Site Web d?di? au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 10:58:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Jul 28 10:58:00 2003
Subject: Bug with quote and put URL 
In-Reply-To: <BB4B09AC.B8A9%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>
Message-ID: <20030728155110.11356.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Fran?ois Cuneo <francois.cuneo at cuk.ch> wrote:
> Hello everybody!
> I have a not very funny bug to present:-)
> Here is the code and it works perfectly:
> 
> *****
> set the itemdelimiter to tab
> put item 1 to -2 of chemin into chemin
> put chemin &"/Data/French.rev" into cheminloc1
> 
> 
> --  IMPORTATION Des FICHIER FRANCAIS (FRENCHOBJ.TXT
> et FrenchMsg.txt) VERS
> --  LES CHAMPS DE LA CARTE 2
>    
>      
> put "put URL"&& QUOTE&"file:" &cheminloc1 &QUOTE
> &&"into field" && QUOTE
> &"messages"&QUOTE&&"of card id 1032 of me"  into
> fich_a_importer
>      
> do fich_a_importer
> 
> delete line 1 of fld "Objets" of card id 1032 of me
> --j'efface le titre de
> la liste
> *****
>      
> OK, all the file is correctly in the field Messages,
> fine.
> 
> The imported text is a tabuled text.
> 
> If I have in the text ((tab) it's when I use the
> tabkey):
> 
> coucou (tab) gag (tab) haha
> 
> all is good BUT if the text is with a quote:
> 
> "coucou" (tab) gag (tab) "haha"
> 
> I obtain double quote!!
> 
> ""coucou"" (tab) "gag" (tab) ""ahaha""
> 
> grrrrr.....
> 
> Shure it a bug!
> 
> No?? It's me???
> 
> 
> Thank you to say why!!!
> Friendly
> 
> Fran?ois
> 

Bonjour Fran?ois,

I'm not entirely sure what is wrong, but you can make
the code easier to follow by making the following
change :

> put "put URL"&& QUOTE&"file:" &cheminloc1 &QUOTE
> &&"into field" && QUOTE
> &"messages"&QUOTE&&"of card id 1032 of me"  into
> fich_a_importer
> do fich_a_importer

  put URL ("file:" & cheminLoc1) into field \
      "messages" of card id 1032 of me 

Both the 'do' command and the 'value' function are
quite sensitive to quotes.

If you still have the problem after making the change
above, check the input file with a simple text editor
; for example, I've seen it happen upon reading data
coming from FileMaker, that the export program had
been overzealous.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From dan at shafermedia.com  Mon Jul 28 11:32:00 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon Jul 28 11:32:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <200307280757.DAA19645@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <0FDF43BC-C118-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 12:57 AM, Scott Rossi asked:

> Does this mean that any time you've encountered a preference group in 
> an
> application or the system that contains disabled checkboxes, you stop 
> using
> the program/system immediately and trash it?
>
> I wonder how you get along without QuickTime (System
> Preferences/QuickTime/Connection tab), non US keyboard layouts (System
> Preferences/International/Input Menu Tab), the Mouse control panel 
> (with a
> trackpad), or a modem (System Preferences/Network/Modem tab)?
>
Short answer: I had never looked at any of those settings until you 
pointed them out.

Short reaction: No, I probably don't absolutely and immediately stop 
using the program/system. If there are alternatives, I might. If 
there's a program I must have and it does this kind of thing, I 
probably learn to tolerate it but I am an unhappy user.

Alternative design: Apple's designers should not disable the checkbox; 
rather they should hide the option until and unless the user makes a 
selection from the popup menu that should enable the user to change the 
checkbox setting. Then and only then the checkbox should appear. This 
is part of another key UI design concept: progressive discovery. Only 
show the user as much of the UI as is needed to accomplish the 
immediate objective. Several Claris products 15 years ago, for which 
the UI was designed by one world-class designer, demonstrated this 
brilliantly. Why should I even have to look at the checkbox and have it 
clutter my use of the program if it's not relevant to my current 
situation? No value. No reason for it to be there.

I'm a real minimalist when it comes to UI design anyway. Every single 
component of the UI ought to serve some practical purpose. If it 
doesn't, banish it.




From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul 28 11:45:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul 28 11:45:01 2003
Subject: Bug with quote and put URL 
In-Reply-To: <BB4B09AC.B8A9%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>
Message-ID: <DA643A23-C119-11D7-B515-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 09:11 AM, Fran?ois Cuneo wrote:

> BUT if the text is with a quote:
>
> "coucou" (tab) gag (tab) "haha"
>
> I obtain double quote!!
>
> ""coucou"" (tab) "gag" (tab) ""ahaha""

How is this file created?  Is it created by a database or spreadsheet  
program?  Or is it created with a basic text editor like notepad or  
TextEdit?  I suspect you may be seeing a "feature" of the program that  
generated the file.

Does the file look OK when you look at it with notepad or TextEdit?

Dar Scott


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 11:55:00 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Jul 28 11:55:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <0FDF43BC-C118-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <20030728164758.3853.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dan Shafer <dan at shafermedia.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> Alternative design: Apple's designers should not
> disable the checkbox; 
> rather they should hide the option until and unless
> the user makes a 
> selection from the popup menu that should enable the
> user to change the 
> checkbox setting. Then and only then the checkbox
> should appear. This 
> is part of another key UI design concept:
> progressive discovery. Only 
> show the user as much of the UI as is needed to
> accomplish the 
> immediate objective. Several Claris products 15
> years ago, for which 
> the UI was designed by one world-class designer,
> demonstrated this 
> brilliantly. Why should I even have to look at the
> checkbox and have it 
> clutter my use of the program if it's not relevant
> to my current 
> situation? No value. No reason for it to be there.
> 

Hi Dan,

The company I work for has been producing
accounting/administrative applications for 18 years on
Mac and Windows, and we've experimented quite a bit
with our interface, both in terms of ease-of-use and
of error-avoidance.

Now we've settled on a design where the user sees all
the fields and option menus and checkboxes, but
they're all disabled until the user enters 'Edit' mode
by clicking the 'Edit button', then they're enabled
until the user clicks the 'Save' or 'Revert' buttons.
During edit mode, other buttons such as Previous and
Next are disabled.

An earlier version would only display fields and
buttons when you were in the right mode, but our users
found it quite disconcerting that fields warped into
option menus and that buttons would suddenly appear
and disappear.

Maybe it's because they were accountants *grin* but
progressive disclosure isn't always the answer.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul 28 11:59:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul 28 11:59:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <0FDF43BC-C118-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <CCD721C8-C11B-11D7-B515-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 10:25 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> This is part of another key UI design concept: progressive discovery. 
> Only show the user as much of the UI as is needed to accomplish the 
> immediate objective. Several Claris products 15 years ago, for which 
> the UI was designed by one world-class designer, demonstrated this 
> brilliantly. Why should I even have to look at the checkbox and have 
> it clutter my use of the program if it's not relevant to my current 
> situation? No value. No reason for it to be there.

I find this style frustrating.

I look everywhere trying to set up something only to discover I only 
had to check some box with some cryptic description to make that setup 
visible.  And then a week or season later I have to do it all over 
again because I forgot the trick.

Or I don't even think to look for that capability because I never think 
to check "compatibility features" or some checkbox.

I prefer a setup panel show me what it can do rather than make me tease 
it out of it.  My brain can easily skip over a block of disabled 
controls.  Even when I look at them, they provide information about the 
nature of that checkbox or radio button.

Or maybe I don't understand your point.

Dar Scott



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Jul 28 12:03:05 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon Jul 28 12:03:05 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <0FDF43BC-C118-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <014701c35529$20f67a30$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

> Alternative design: Apple's designers should not disable the 
> checkbox; 
> rather they should hide the option until and unless the user makes a 
> selection from the popup menu that should enable the user to 
> change the 
> checkbox setting. Then and only then the checkbox should appear. This 
> is part of another key UI design concept: progressive discovery. Only 
> show the user as much of the UI as is needed to accomplish the 
> immediate objective. Several Claris products 15 years ago, for which 
> the UI was designed by one world-class designer, demonstrated this 
> brilliantly. Why should I even have to look at the checkbox 
> and have it 
> clutter my use of the program if it's not relevant to my current 
> situation? No value. No reason for it to be there.

Dan, normally I would agree with you, but I think there's a purpose for
disabled controls. They show you what capabilities are *possible*, but
just not active at that time - much like disabled menu items inform a
user that when the time is right, they will go "here" to access that
feature. Personally, I think it has to do with the UI and what each
control is meaning to convey. If it is not important that the user know
that this checkbox is there until the time is right, by all means hide
it and unclutter the display. But if it *is* important that the user
know that it's there for the future, leave it disabled and visible,
IMHO.
 
Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 




From dan at shafermedia.com  Mon Jul 28 12:21:00 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon Jul 28 12:21:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <200307281601.MAA30872@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <FABF50DB-C11E-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 09:01 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> Now we've settled on a design where the user sees all
> the fields and option menus and checkboxes, but
> they're all disabled until the user enters 'Edit' mode
> by clicking the 'Edit button', then they're enabled
> until the user clicks the 'Save' or 'Revert' buttons.
> During edit mode, other buttons such as Previous and
> Next are disabled.
>
IMNSHO, this is just fine. (Not that you -- or anyone else for that 
matter -- really ought to care what I think!)

This is a case of mode-based interfaces. While I generally do not like 
such interfaces, this is one of the clear exceptions. As a use, I 
*view* the data in one mode and then switch to *edit* mode to make 
changes.

I presume since you guys have been at this for a while that there's a 
sound reason the user might want *not* to be in editing mode (or that 
your program wants him not in that mode). Otherwise, I'd eliminate the 
"uneditable" view and just put the user in a position to both view and 
edit the content in the same screen/layout. I've very rarely found a 
reasons to do modal programming after thinking about the situation for 
a bit, but I'm sure valid situations exist.



From dan at shafermedia.com  Mon Jul 28 12:27:01 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon Jul 28 12:27:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <200307281601.MAA30872@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CCB20480-C11F-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 09:01 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

> I prefer a setup panel show me what it can do rather than make me tease
> it out of it.  My brain can easily skip over a block of disabled
> controls.  Even when I look at them, they provide information about the
> nature of that checkbox or radio button.
>
Well, certainly to some extent it's a matter of personal taste. Study 
after study has shown that *most* users do not react to things the way 
you do. (The fact that you're a programmer/Rev user probably already 
indicated that!)

But I don't think I was quite clear in my original post, either.

Progressive realization is appropriate when there are some choices 
which are simply not relevant until and unless the user makes some 
choice elsewhere in the user experience. In the specific case I was 
looking at, there was a setting on the QuickTime property sheet that 
was only relevant at very low modem connection speeds. High-speed 
modems and broadband connections need not concern themselves with this 
checkbox. So my design choice would be to hide the checkbox and show it 
*only* if the user chose a low-speed connection from the popup menu. 
Another example of this kind of progressive realization in UI design is 
when there are two popups, the contents of one of which depends on the 
user's selection in the other. We do not as a rule default to providing 
every possible alternative in the second popup menu. Rather, we either 
hide or disable it (or, my preference, set its contents to a default 
string that makes it clear that it will be populated when the first 
popup has been set) until the user makes a choice from the first popup 
menu.

I fully agree with you that it makes no sense to have *relevant* UI 
controls hidden so that the user has to sort of "unlock the puzzle" to 
get at them. "Discovery" is the operative word; the user should 
discover the new options if and as they become relevant to the task 
s/he wants to accomplish.




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jul 28 12:37:02 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Jul 28 12:37:02 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <20030728164758.3853.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB4AAB8F.31768%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jan Schenkel wrote:

> Maybe it's because they were accountants *grin* but
> progressive disclosure isn't always the answer.

In all fairness to progressive disclosure, it isn't merely a case of showing
and hiding controls necessarily, but in the larger view guides where those
controls are placed to begin with.

For example, Photoshop (and sadly, most other programs since) have decided
that having every possible feature in front of the user is a good thing, but
the resulting migration from to dialogs to palettes has not reduced the
number of steps needed to perform most tasks, in some cases making tasks
harder because of the smaller target area of palette controls and the lack
of a universal way to shift keyboard focus from the document window to a
palette.  Moreover, reliance on palettes often results in a lot of visual
noise and consumes precious screen real estate that distracts from the
user's document.

In the case at hand, where the question about showing/hiding controls comes
in, we need to balance that with another cardinal principle: consistency.
Both MS and Apple HIGs suggest that having a consistent menu bar with items
that enable/disable depending on context is generally better than one in
which the menu bar is constantly changing with the context.  The MS HIG goes
further to suggest that the same principle applies to controls, and I tend
to agree for the reasons you cited, noting only that this does not
necessarily conflict with progressive disclosure.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From drjohn at wellminds.org  Mon Jul 28 12:39:01 2003
From: drjohn at wellminds.org (John R. Brauer)
Date: Mon Jul 28 12:39:01 2003
Subject: universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <200307281601.MAA30857@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7D2D5865-C121-11D7-A1FD-00039340C4D6@wellminds.org>

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:47:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Universal GUI
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com

--- Dan Shafer <dan at shafermedia.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> Alternative design: Apple's designers should not
> disable the checkbox;
> rather they should hide the option until and unless
> the user makes a
> selection from the popup menu that should enable the
> user to change the
> checkbox setting. Then and only then the checkbox
> should appear. This
> is part of another key UI design concept:
> progressive discovery. Only
> show the user as much of the UI as is needed to
> accomplish the
> immediate objective. Several Claris products 15
> years ago, for which
> the UI was designed by one world-class designer,
> demonstrated this
> brilliantly. Why should I even have to look at the
> checkbox and have it
> clutter my use of the program if it's not relevant
> to my current
> situation? No value. No reason for it to be there.

I think it makes sense to leave it there disabled. If it is gone, then 
the items below it are one space higher up when I look for them, and my 
muscle memory becomes a liability instead of an asset. Disabled items 
are placeholders. Disabled items also tell me that I have found what I 
am looking for, and it is currently disabled for some reason. If it is 
gone, I may spend much time looking for it, not realizing that it is 
just GONE.

Sincerely,


John R. Brauer, Psy.D.
Clinical Psychologist



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Jul 28 12:41:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon Jul 28 12:41:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <0FDF43BC-C118-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCIECPFNAA.chipp@chipp.com>

I understand progressive discovery. I find in most instances it creates
problems. I'd much rather see a menu item disabled and still holding a
place, then removed completely from a menu. Microsoft is terrible with this
with "Menus show recently used commands first." I hate it, and disable this
feature each time I install Office2000 or Outlook.

Dan, can you give an example where "progressive discovery" works well?

-Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dan Shafer
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 11:25 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Universal GUI
>
>
>
> On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 12:57 AM, Scott Rossi asked:
>
> > Does this mean that any time you've encountered a preference group in
> > an
> > application or the system that contains disabled checkboxes, you stop
> > using
> > the program/system immediately and trash it?
> >
> > I wonder how you get along without QuickTime (System
> > Preferences/QuickTime/Connection tab), non US keyboard layouts (System
> > Preferences/International/Input Menu Tab), the Mouse control panel
> > (with a
> > trackpad), or a modem (System Preferences/Network/Modem tab)?
> >
> Short answer: I had never looked at any of those settings until you
> pointed them out.
>
> Short reaction: No, I probably don't absolutely and immediately stop
> using the program/system. If there are alternatives, I might. If
> there's a program I must have and it does this kind of thing, I
> probably learn to tolerate it but I am an unhappy user.
>
> Alternative design: Apple's designers should not disable the checkbox;
> rather they should hide the option until and unless the user makes a
> selection from the popup menu that should enable the user to change the
> checkbox setting. Then and only then the checkbox should appear. This
> is part of another key UI design concept: progressive discovery. Only
> show the user as much of the UI as is needed to accomplish the
> immediate objective. Several Claris products 15 years ago, for which
> the UI was designed by one world-class designer, demonstrated this
> brilliantly. Why should I even have to look at the checkbox and have it
> clutter my use of the program if it's not relevant to my current
> situation? No value. No reason for it to be there.
>
> I'm a real minimalist when it comes to UI design anyway. Every single
> component of the UI ought to serve some practical purpose. If it
> doesn't, banish it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Jul 28 12:42:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Jul 28 12:42:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <CCB20480-C11F-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <DAA83838-C121-11D7-B515-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 11:20 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I fully agree with you that it makes no sense to have *relevant* UI 
> controls hidden so that the user has to sort of "unlock the puzzle" to 
> get at them.

I think we are in agreement.  Perhaps the problem is that the user and 
the GUI designer may not have the same picture as to what is relevant 
or what words mean.

I might not select "Field Use" in a laser calibration setup because I'm 
in my lab.  Only by selecting it do I find I can set temperature, 
humidity and altitude or air pressure.  This is very relevant to me 
because my lab (in this imaginary scenario) is at 12,000 feet and in a 
hot, humid jungle without air conditioning.  The GUI designer didn't 
think of my conditions as lab conditions.  I didn't think of my 
conditions as field, because I have a rock solid optics bench and power 
conditioners and the like.

Dar Scott



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Jul 28 12:43:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon Jul 28 12:43:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <CCB20480-C11F-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCKEDAFNAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Oh...*that* progressive discovery:-)

I understand what you're talking about. I do it quite a bit in the
HemingwayPC application.

got it.

--Chipp



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 14:01:01 2003
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Jul 28 14:01:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <FABF50DB-C11E-11D7-90B1-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <20030728185404.45241.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dan Shafer <dan at shafermedia.com> wrote:
> 
> On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 09:01 AM, Jan Schenkel
> wrote:
> 
> > Now we've settled on a design where the user sees
> all
> > the fields and option menus and checkboxes, but
> > they're all disabled until the user enters 'Edit'
> mode
> > by clicking the 'Edit button', then they're
> enabled
> > until the user clicks the 'Save' or 'Revert'
> buttons.
> > During edit mode, other buttons such as Previous
> and
> > Next are disabled.
> >
> IMNSHO, this is just fine. (Not that you -- or
> anyone else for that 
> matter -- really ought to care what I think!)
> 
> This is a case of mode-based interfaces. While I
> generally do not like 
> such interfaces, this is one of the clear
> exceptions. As a use, I 
> *view* the data in one mode and then switch to
> *edit* mode to make 
> changes.
> 
> I presume since you guys have been at this for a
> while that there's a 
> sound reason the user might want *not* to be in
> editing mode (or that 
> your program wants him not in that mode). Otherwise,
> I'd eliminate the 
> "uneditable" view and just put the user in a
> position to both view and 
> edit the content in the same screen/layout. I've
> very rarely found a 
> reasons to do modal programming after thinking about
> the situation for 
> a bit, but I'm sure valid situations exist.
> 

Well, it started in earlier projects as part of the
safety and privileges framework : not everybody can
change certain data or even look at it -- yes, an
excellent case of progressive disclosure.

But what encouraged us to stick with this decision was
the time one of our customers was losing data in some
of their FileMaker solutions because people would
leave their computer focused on a field and then put
things on their keyboard and you can guess what
happens : lots of random characters in various fields,
and no undo is going to revive the record.
And because nobody ever did it -- *chuckle* where have
I heard that one before? -- these things would only be
discovered weeks or even months afterwards.

We do allow multiple windows open at the same time, so
people can view the data they want, and jump back and
forth between the ledger history and customer
information, etc.
But on edit time, the window becomes modal, and
buttons and fields get disabled/enabled. And if you
put something on the keyboard, there's still the
Revert button. And now that harddrive sizes permit it,
we keep the older versions of records around for the
administrator to correct accidental changes.

But this is digressing from the issue ; I may well be
the only one on the planet, but I liked balloon help ;
it pointed at the control it belonged to, and a few
developers were even nice enough to explain why some
controls and menuitems were disabled.
Compare that with disappearing menus ? la Windows /
Office 2000, and tooltips that aren't even displayed
for disabled items.

At any rate, after reading the many posts in this
thread, I think we're all pretty much in agreement
here : show what's relevant, hide obscure things, and
streamline the process of data input as much as
possible.
And far more important : have a good manual and help
file with a full index so people can find out how to
account for the temperature in Dar's lab ;-)

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Mon Jul 28 14:17:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Jul 28 14:17:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <20030728185404.45241.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <221F881F-C12F-11D7-8015-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 12:54  PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:
>  tooltips that aren't even displayed for disabled items.

Incidentally, I filed a bug report on this for RR. Disabled items don't 
display tooltips. Is it really a bug, or is it one of those 
cross-platform twilight zone issues? :-)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Mon Jul 28 14:27:00 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Mon Jul 28 14:27:00 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
References: <200307272039.QAA09946@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F25771B.2060509@pacbell.net>

From: David Kwinter <david at kwinter.ca>


> 
> On 7/27/03 9:26 AM, "Jim Hurley" <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
> 
>> How do I translate
>>this Explorer page into a RR file, or even the script as a text file?
>>
>>I have a Jumble fan who would love this.
> 
> Explorer on the Mac right, love the M$ Mac treatment here. I made page with
> a link:
> 
> http://www.kwinter.ca/wordman.html
> 
> 

I get the same thing with both links on Netscape 7 (MOS 9.2) : the data 
downloads into an edit window with:

"#!/bin/sh
# MetaCard 2.4 stack
# The following is not ASCII text,
# so now would be a good time to q out of more
exec mc $0 "$@"
"


Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Mon Jul 28 14:42:00 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Mon Jul 28 14:42:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
References: <200307272039.QAA09946@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F257AAB.4040406@pacbell.net>

From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com

 >From one of the designers of Mac OS 1.0:

Trends: The Evolution of the Interface
<http://www.asktog.com/columns/038MacUITrends.html>

OS X: A First Look
<http://www.asktog.com/columns/034OSX-FirstLook.html>

Top 10 Reasons the Apple Dock Sucks
<http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.html>



The Tog (Bruce Tognazzini) has a way of cutting the BS out of the PR... ;-)

He ends with:
Keeping It Simple  Some wonder if the age of simplicity has passed Apple 
by. How can an OS as powerful as X possibly regain the sleek elegance of 
the Apple of old (no matter how flashy the demos)? The simple truth is 
that an interface is only as sleek as its OS is powerful. The Palm Pilot 
works because the interface with its relatively limited universe of 
functionality sits on a computer with significantly more power and 
storage than even the original Mac. OS X has the horsepower to command 
and control a far larger universe of activities than we have ever seen 
on personal computers.

Does Apple still have the talent and the drive to achieve that ultimate 
simplicity? Will it go down the garden path trod by Microsoft, Sun, and 
others, building tractors for the masses? Or will OS X live up to its 
demos and mature into a slippery new sports car? Whether we end up with 
a Caterpillar or a Porsche, the next year should be an exciting ride.



He's the Dr. Phil of the Mac World.


Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Jul 28 15:04:00 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:04:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <BB4AAB8F.31768%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BB4AAB8F.31768%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100303bb4b200cfd81@[216.229.107.150]>

>Both MS and Apple HIGs suggest that having a consistent menu bar with items
>that enable/disable depending on context is generally better than one in
>which the menu bar is constantly changing with the context.

Richard, et al:

I guess nobody on the HyperCard Team read that one.    :{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Jul 28 15:04:39 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:04:39 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <014701c35529$20f67a30$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <014701c35529$20f67a30$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <a05100305bb4b214045b5@[216.229.107.150]>

>I think there's a purpose for
>disabled controls. They show you what capabilities are *possible*, but
>just not active at that time - much like disabled menu items inform a
>user that when the time is right

Ken, Dan, et al:

...or like a palette?

-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From david at kwinter.ca  Mon Jul 28 15:15:01 2003
From: david at kwinter.ca (David Kwinter)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:15:01 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <3F25771B.2060509@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <BB4ADEB1.1F30%david@kwinter.ca>

The link enables you to right-click and "Save as"





On 7/28/03 1:18 PM, "Ray G. Miller" <rgmiller at pacbell.net> wrote:

> From: David Kwinter <david at kwinter.ca>
> 
> 
>> 
>> On 7/27/03 9:26 AM, "Jim Hurley" <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> How do I translate
>>> this Explorer page into a RR file, or even the script as a text file?
>>> 
>>> I have a Jumble fan who would love this.
>> 
>> Explorer on the Mac right, love the M$ Mac treatment here. I made page with
>> a link:
>> 
>> http://www.kwinter.ca/wordman.html
>> 
>> 
> 
> I get the same thing with both links on Netscape 7 (MOS 9.2) : the data
> downloads into an edit window with:
> 
> "#!/bin/sh
> # MetaCard 2.4 stack
> # The following is not ASCII text,
> # so now would be a good time to q out of more
> exec mc $0 "$@"
> "
> 
> 
> Ray G. Miller
> __________________
> Turtlelips Productions
> 4009 Everett Ave.
> Oakland, CA 94602
> MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
> (V) 510.530.1971
> (F) 510.482.3491
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jul 28 15:18:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:18:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <a05100303bb4b200cfd81@[216.229.107.150]>
Message-ID: <BB4AD14B.31792%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

>> Both MS and Apple HIGs suggest that having a consistent menu bar with items
>> that enable/disable depending on context is generally better than one in
>> which the menu bar is constantly changing with the context.
> 
> Richard, et al:
> 
> I guess nobody on the HyperCard Team read that one.    :{`)

Or the chapter on why using standard scrollbars is better than inventing
novelty palette widgets. ;)

But seriously, you'l find an exception to this in the wonderful AppleWorks.
Since it's really a suite of applications it makes sense for it to have a
dynamic menu bar.  One more example of how the HIG provides guidance but not
law....

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From dan at shafermedia.com  Mon Jul 28 15:19:00 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:19:00 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1679 - 12 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200307281843.OAA04936@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D055E4AA-C137-11D7-AB2D-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 11:43 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Personally, I think it has to do with the UI and what each
> control is meaning to convey. If it is not important that the user know
> that this checkbox is there until the time is right, by all means hide
> it and unclutter the display. But if it *is* important that the user
> know that it's there for the future, leave it disabled and visible,
> IMHO.

Absolutely agree, Ken. I think what we're discussing is more like 
deciding what it is important for the user to know and see and what 
isn't. And that's almost always going to be subjective.




From dan at shafermedia.com  Mon Jul 28 15:22:01 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:22:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <200307281843.OAA04936@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3C01015B-C138-11D7-AB2D-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 11:43 AM, John R. Brauer wrote:

> If it is gone, then
> the items below it are one space higher up when I look for them, and my
> muscle memory becomes a liability instead of an asset. Disabled items
> are placeholders. Disabled items also tell me that I have found what I
> am looking for, and it is currently disabled for some reason

Interesting point, Dr. John. I don't think it's at all necessary to 
"close up" the space left by unused but hidden controls that might 
appear in the dialog under some condition. But if you did that, then 
I'd agree with your assessment about muscle memory.

FWIW, I do *not* agree with MS that the same principle that applies to 
hidden menu items should apply to hidden controls because muscle memory 
needn't come into play with controls as it must inevitably with menus. 
A hidden control when it does appear is (or should be) at the same 
location every time, which gains the consistency.



From dan at shafermedia.com  Mon Jul 28 15:26:00 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:26:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <200307281843.OAA04936@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C6E2C448-C138-11D7-AB2D-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 11:43 AM, Chipp Walters asked:

> Dan, can you give an example where "progressive discovery" works well?
>
Not off the top of my head with current apps I'm using (probably 
because it's become so automagic that I don't think about it any more) 
but Claris SmartForms Designer, for example, had a single dialog that 
was useful in a number of circumstances. When the dialog opened, it did 
so understanding the context in which it was invoked so that only the 
controls I needed in that context were visible. But I could change the 
purpose (re-focus the dialog) by selecting another item from a popup 
menu. IN that case, a new minimal set of controls would appear. I'd 
make a choice from a radio button set and the center of the dialog 
would transform (or fill if it was empty) with the set of options 
peculiar to that choice. So I only had one dialog box, ever, for this 
relatively large set of issues.

That seemed to me to be very efficient.




From dan at shafermedia.com  Mon Jul 28 15:29:01 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:29:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <200307281843.OAA04936@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2DD8CFDC-C139-11D7-AB2D-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 11:43 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> Compare that with disappearing menus ? la Windows /
> Office 2000, and tooltips that aren't even displayed
> for disabled items.
>
Yeah, that is *terrible* design. Fundamental principle (as Dr. John 
reminded us in this thread): never, never, ever, under any 
circumstances, change any portion of a menu other than the bottom 
portion where it is designed to be changing. Muscle memory is crucial 
to user success. It's a strong reminder of the need for consistency.



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Mon Jul 28 15:30:00 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:30:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
References: <200307281843.OAA04922@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F2585CB.5020003@pacbell.net>

From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> 
> For example, Photoshop (and sadly, most other programs since) have decided
> that having every possible feature in front of the user is a good thing, but
> the resulting migration from to dialogs to palettes has not reduced the
> number of steps needed to perform most tasks, in some cases making tasks
> harder because of the smaller target area of palette controls and the lack
> of a universal way to shift keyboard focus from the document window to a
> palette.  Moreover, reliance on palettes often results in a lot of visual
> noise and consumes precious screen real estate that distracts from the
> user's document.


Good illustration, Richard.

Photoshop, Illustrator and Pagemaker, to a lesser extent, are "evolving" 
into mind-numbing tools: where-the-hell-are-they-hiding-it-now!

I think Photoshop 3.0 was their best design to date.

Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Mon Jul 28 15:37:00 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:37:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
References: <200307281843.OAA04922@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F25879E.3090206@pacbell.net>

From: "John R. Brauer" <drjohn at wellminds.org>
<snip>
I think it makes sense to leave it there disabled. If it is gone, then
the items below it are one space higher up when I look for them, and my
muscle memory becomes a liability instead of an asset. Disabled items
are placeholders. Disabled items also tell me that I have found what I
am looking for, and it is currently disabled for some reason. If it is
gone, I may spend much time looking for it, not realizing that it is
just GONE.

Whole-heartly agree, John.

In MetaCard, a checkbox becomes "unchecked" when it is disabled. Is this 
true in Rev?

Having to search thru three tabs to find the "Lock Location" checkbox is 
not productive. Isn't that Fisk's Law?



Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From jhurley at infostations.com  Mon Jul 28 15:45:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:45:00 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <200307281843.OAA04936@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307281843.OAA04936@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bb4b3933c15b@[69.19.174.223]>

>
>Message: 11
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:18:51 -0700
>From: "Ray G. Miller" <rgmiller at pacbell.net>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Subject: Re: Spell check for Rev?
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>From: David Kwinter <david at kwinter.ca>
>
>
>>
>>  On 7/27/03 9:26 AM, "Jim Hurley" <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  How do I translate
>>>this Explorer page into a RR file, or even the script as a text file?
>>>
>>>I have a Jumble fan who would love this.
>>
>>  Explorer on the Mac right, love the M$ Mac treatment here. I made page with
>  > a link:
>>
>  > http://www.kwinter.ca/wordman.html
>>
>>
>
>I get the same thing with both links on Netscape 7 (MOS 9.2) : the data
>downloads into an edit window with:
>
>"#!/bin/sh
># MetaCard 2.4 stack
># The following is not ASCII text,
># so now would be a good time to q out of more
>exec mc $0 "$@"
>"
>
>
>Ray G. Miller
>________________


Ray,

Try the following: Control click the link in Netscape and select Save 
As from the drop-down menu.

I will appear on your disk as a Netscape file. Don't try to double 
click it. But go to RR and open the file from within RR.

Jim


From kkaufman at snet.net  Mon Jul 28 16:23:00 2003
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Mon Jul 28 16:23:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
Message-ID: <BA0FB573-C140-11D7-89A8-0003936D1F12@snet.net>

"...I understand progressive discovery. I find in most instances it 
creates
problems. I'd much rather see a menu item disabled and still holding a
place, then removed completely from a menu. Microsoft is terrible with 
this
with "Menus show recently used commands first." I hate it, and disable 
this
feature each time I install Office2000 or Outlook...."

My wife is not especially computer savvy, but is able to efficiently 
run the software she uses every day. Recently, during one of the few 
times she opened MS Word XP, she became frustrated because the menu 
items she expected to be in a certain place were suddenly not there; 
this due to the "feature" described above.  I also have disabled a 
similar application- and document-hiding "feature" in the WinXP start 
menu on all the computers in our office.
We'll have the patience to look through a few extra lines of text to 
find what we need, when we need it, thank you.

-Kurt



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 16:33:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon Jul 28 16:33:00 2003
Subject: CGI tutorial
In-Reply-To: <F2699F20-BFED-11D7-965F-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <20030728212614.70087.qmail@web20004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dan Shafer <dan at shafermedia.com> wrote:
> Have you read my CGI chapter from Volume 3
>of my forthcoming book series on Revolution?
> 
http://www.eclecticity.com/danshafer/chapter21.rtf

"Common Gateway Interface"
so THAT's what CGI means!
if the rest is as clear as the first paragraph,
there is bound to be a market for this.

there are great sections throughout RunRev
URLland, but one comprehensive volume is going
to help a lot.

thanks,

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 16:55:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon Jul 28 16:55:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <2DD8CFDC-C139-11D7-AB2D-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <20030728214804.56857.qmail@web20008.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dan Shafer <dan at shafermedia.com> wrote:
> 
> never, never, ever, under any 
> circumstances, change any portion of a menu
> other than the bottom portion where it is 
> designed to be changing.

'change' seems to mean 'relocate' here.
a menuitem that lets you hide 10 controls would
be allowable, but maybe it is better to put
those 10 controls on a floating palette?
looks like a rebuild here.

Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 17:28:00 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon Jul 28 17:28:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <20030728164758.3853.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030728222135.45844.qmail@web20003.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Now we've settled on a design where the user
> sees all
> the fields and option menus and checkboxes, but
> they're all disabled until the user enters
> 'Edit' mode
> by clicking the 'Edit button', then they're
> enabled
> until the user clicks the 'Save' or 'Revert'
> buttons.
> During edit mode, other buttons such as
> Previous and Next are disabled.

Jan,

did you ever try a "Hide/Show Disabled Controls"
menuitem or control to give the user the option?



=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 17:41:19 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon Jul 28 17:41:19 2003
Subject: test
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030727232037.00c7c710@pop.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20030728223435.72216.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com>

test

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch  Mon Jul 28 18:09:01 2003
From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo)
Date: Mon Jul 28 18:09:01 2003
Subject: Bug with quote and put URL 
In-Reply-To: <DA643A23-C119-11D7-B515-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BB4B7894.B8DB%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>

> 
> On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 09:11 AM, Fran?ois Cuneo wrote:
> 
>> BUT if the text is with a quote:
>> 
>> "coucou" (tab) gag (tab) "haha"
>> 
>> I obtain double quote!!
>> 
>> ""coucou"" (tab) "gag" (tab) ""ahaha""
> 
> How is this file created?  Is it created by a database or spreadsheet
> program?  Or is it created with a basic text editor like notepad or
> TextEdit?  I suspect you may be seeing a "feature" of the program that
> generated the file.
> 
> Does the file look OK when you look at it with notepad or TextEdit?
> 
> Dar Scott
It's created by Excel with the format text and tab separator.
Thank you
Fran?ois

-------------- 
Fran?ois Cuneo
Site Web d?di? au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch



From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch  Mon Jul 28 18:13:02 2003
From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo)
Date: Mon Jul 28 18:13:02 2003
Subject: Review about Revolution 2.0.1
In-Reply-To: <DA643A23-C119-11D7-B515-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BB4B791E.B8DD%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>

Hello!
I have written a review about Revolution 2 in Cuk.ch here:
http://www.cuk.ch/articles/tests
Cuk.ch is one of the most important site about Mac in French.
Thank you for your interest.
Friendly
Fran?ois

-------------- 
Fran?ois Cuneo
Site Web d?di? au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch



From curry at pair.com  Mon Jul 28 20:17:00 2003
From: curry at pair.com (curry)
Date: Mon Jul 28 20:17:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <200307282210.SAA12247@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307282210.SAA12247@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00bb4b72b8e454@[68.86.46.40]>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

>Agreed on all points.  But I guess here we get to the real question:  How do
>we get Apple back to being a research-based (as opposed to a
>Steve's-Whim-based) company?
>
>The pre-NeXT Apple understood the difference between usability engineering
>and graphic design.  And they had twice the marketshare.

Exactly!

One article you referred mentioned the round mouse, which I had. As 
much controversy as it caused, I noticed that many people never 
really blamed Apple about things like this.

Of course, OS changes were even more important, and when OSX came 
out, most Mac media went out of their way to find things to hype, and 
studiously avoided placing too much criticism on the obvious problems.

I don't settle into hypocritical behavior without a bit of struggle. 
I spent a while after I got OSX searching for a hack to change the 
locations of the Window title bar buttons, until one of the theme 
site people told me that it wouldn't work on Cocoa apps anyway 
because the position is hard-coded! (Double no-no: doing it wrong and 
making sure it can't be fixed.)

Open and Save dialogs are a mess. (At least on 10.1, has it been 
improved?) There are also a hundred little clashing things here and 
there throughout the system.

I still prefer Mac to Windows, but it's become relative in every 
aspect--consistency, productivity, appearance, enjoyment, ethics.

Curry


From themacguy at macosx.com  Mon Jul 28 20:29:01 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Mon Jul 28 20:29:01 2003
Subject: playLoudness question
Message-ID: <135B9729-C163-11D7-B277-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Before I start tossing another custom property into my QT player 
object, let me ask this question:

When I use the player controller to set a volume (loudness), is there a 
way to remember that setting from launch to launch? Reading through the 
docs, it appears that I need to create a custom property for the player 
and store the numeric loudness setting there (zero through 100). If I 
"set the playLoudness" of a player to 50, for example, it does not 
appear to be saved even if I immediately save the stack.

Am I thinking along the correct lines?

Thanks,
Barry



From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Mon Jul 28 20:32:01 2003
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Mon Jul 28 20:32:01 2003
Subject: Bug with quote and put URL 
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276DAA@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

You might check to see that Excel is not adding quotes unilaterally during
export.  I know it encloses a cell with quotation marks if a comma is in a
cell, and it may do so under other circumstances.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Fran?ois Cuneo [mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch]
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 8:11 AM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Bug with quote and put URL 


Hello everybody!
I have a not very funny bug to present:-)
Here is the code and it works perfectly:

*****
set the itemdelimiter to tab
put item 1 to -2 of chemin into chemin
put chemin &"/Data/French.rev" into cheminloc1


--  IMPORTATION Des FICHIER FRANCAIS (FRENCHOBJ.TXT et FrenchMsg.txt) VERS
--  LES CHAMPS DE LA CARTE 2
   
     
put "put URL"&& QUOTE&"file:" &cheminloc1 &QUOTE &&"into field" && QUOTE
&"messages"&QUOTE&&"of card id 1032 of me"  into fich_a_importer
     
do fich_a_importer

delete line 1 of fld "Objets" of card id 1032 of me --j'efface le titre de
la liste
*****
     
OK, all the file is correctly in the field Messages, fine.

The imported text is a tabuled text.

If I have in the text ((tab) it's when I use the tabkey):

coucou (tab) gag (tab) haha

all is good BUT if the text is with a quote:

"coucou" (tab) gag (tab) "haha"

I obtain double quote!!

""coucou"" (tab) "gag" (tab) ""ahaha""

grrrrr.....

Shure it a bug!

No?? It's me???


Thank you to say why!!!
Friendly

Fran?ois
-------------- 
Fran?ois Cuneo
Site Web d?di? au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jul 28 20:58:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Jul 28 20:58:00 2003
Subject: Bug with quote and put URL 
In-Reply-To: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276DAA@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
Message-ID: <BB4B20FC.317E9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Mark Powell wrote:

> You might check to see that Excel is not adding quotes unilaterally during
> export.  I know it encloses a cell with quotation marks if a comma is in a
> cell, and it may do so under other circumstances.

That's a new one for me, but their disregard for consistency does not
surprise (they seem to escape quotes at least three different ways for their
CSV exports across different products).

Does anyone know of a URL to a spec for MS' CSV export format?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jul 28 21:00:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Jul 28 21:00:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00bb4b72b8e454@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <BB4B2171.317EA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

curry wrote:

> Open and Save dialogs are a mess. (At least on 10.1, has it been
> improved?) There are also a hundred little clashing things here and
> there throughout the system.

As annoying as it was to have to pay for the beta releases called "10.0" and
"10.1", v10.2 ("Jaguar") is at last a product-quality release, a significant
improvement over previous versions in nearly every respect.

The UI has been toned down from "clown exploded on your monitor" to
something that approaches being attractive.  The menus have gone from being
unreadably transparent to almost as readable as we had for 15 years prior.
Transparency of inactive windows has also been reduced, so you can almost
discern the layer order of those windows in the new version.

While no version of OS X seems to have sufficient computational horsepower
to calculate the hit region of a grow box reliably, they did speed up nearly
everything else.  The Finder is faster, the Open and Save dialogs are less
teeth-gnashingly slow, and most importantly boot time of the Classic layer
is almost cut in half, a critical feature for an OS that otherwise thumbs
its nose at backward compatibility (ah, how nicely my Win95 apps are still
running under XP).

Tip:  hide Classic apps when you're not using them.  Quartz and Quickdraw
work so very differently that native apps are horribly slow when they have
to draw on top of Classic apps.

All in all, I can't recommend Jaguar enough if you're doing OS X deployment.
It's a drag that we had to pay $360 for it ($120 X 3 releases), but it's
cheaper than buying a new machine (I'm frankenmacing mine anyway until Apple
becomes price-competitive; accellerator prices are good and getting better
with each new Mac release, which should hold me until Apple resumes interest
in marketshare, which shareholders are demanding happen soon).

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Jul 28 21:55:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Jul 28 21:55:00 2003
Subject: [Sorta OT] Things I love about Transcript
Message-ID: <BB4B2E47.317EF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Things I Love About Transcript
Episode 19: Why I rarely benchmark anymore

In the olden days 4GLs were slow.  In order to get any reasonable speed out
them you had to carefully eek out the best performance from every handler.

So I used to benchmark various syntax options, eventually giving rise to
HyperBench, SuperBench, and RevBench, tools to help me run those tests just
a little easier.

Today I was writing a function that I intuitively felt might be suboptimal,
but since it's only called infrequently I was inclined to leave it alone as
long as it worked. 

Well, habit got the better of me and I ran it through RevBench:  it takes
0.16 milliseconds on average.  Sure, I might be able to optimize it, but why
bother? :)

That's something I find with the engine a lot, that testing the speed of
algorithms is not nearly as critical as with other 4GLs.  I still test
complex routines now and then, but most of the time I'm less surprised by
discovering speed differences among syntax options than I am simply
impressed by how fast all them run in Scott Raney's engine.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Mon Jul 28 22:43:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Jul 28 22:43:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00bb4b72b8e454@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <C5C3C5F6-C175-11D7-903E-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 07:08  PM, curry wrote:

> One article you referred mentioned the round mouse, which I had. As 
> much controversy as it caused, I noticed that many people never really 
> blamed Apple about things like this.

Oh I did! Came with my G4 tower. I'm going to look in the closet and if 
I still have that stupid round mouse I'm going to find some kids 
playing street hockey and let them have their way with it. :-)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Jul 28 23:03:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon Jul 28 23:03:01 2003
Subject: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
In-Reply-To: <6DB8B746-BFD0-11D7-965F-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB4B3E4D.132B%scott@tactilemedia.com>

> I think Dan was talking about checkboxes that are *enabled* but can't be
> unchecked (or checked for that matter). If a checkbox is disabled, it is
> expected that you can't check or uncheck it. If I'm wrong, I'll step
> back and let you two talk it out.

Maybe I missed this so I can step back as well.  I didn't catch this
distinction anywhere in the past discussion, but some nice tangents have
appeared as a result. :-)


[OT RAMBLING FOLLOWS]

Speaking for myself, I question such absolutist statements as:

> Never surprise the user.
> 
> A surprised user is a confused user is a distressed user is a user who
> is not going to be a user one second longer than s/he has to be.

IMO, the above statement is valid to a point, but it's a bit nearsighted to
proclaim this to be one of the Ten Commandments of UI Design.  Yes, there
are times when I want to get something done, but there are times when I want
to be surprised.  I enjoy seeing (and need to see) experiments in UI and
interaction, even if the effectiveness is questionable.  Experiments lead to
new ideas.

The past cited example of the Web browser is a good one.  Some folks might
recall this application brought to light the first mainstream appearance of
the "Back" button.  I, along with other HI colleagues, rolled my eyes at
this ridiculous and simplistic UI solution, and yet it has become
commonplace in browser and non-browser applications alike.  It's initial
meaning was unclear: back where?  To the last thing I looked at at?  To
where I started?  To the point I was before I scrolled?  But after time, one
could argue this button has (generally) assumed a consistent
meaning/behavior.  A generalized learning took place and now, for the most
part, users and developers have come to expect a certain behavior from this
control.

Of course users have expectations that should be catered to, but users are
also willing to learn.  In fact, UI pundits such as Jef Raskin are banking
on this.  Raskin's THE system relies on learning a text-based means of
interaction to be effective, and Raskin seems sure this will (or should) be
the means of future human-computer interaction.  Who knows.

So yes, let's try to make computer-human interface effective and useful, etc
etc, but I would propose there's room for thinking "beyond the guidelines".

PS. OT topic for discussion: is it preordained that we will forever be using
buttons, hyperlinks, scrolling fields and draggable windows to display
information on computers?  3D navigation appears to have been all but
abandoned and most folks I've chatted with think that current voice-control
technology is impractical for all intents and purposes.  Has CHI gone as far
as it can go?  Talk amongst yourselves...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Mon Jul 28 23:57:00 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Mon Jul 28 23:57:00 2003
Subject: .rev file association issues
In-Reply-To: <200307251951.h6PJpxF71101@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
References: <200307251951.h6PJpxF71101@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <20030729133822.F7DA.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

> Okay.....that doesn't work. Even though it should. I also tried going to the folder options control panel and creating a new association for .rev - no luck.
> 
> If this is a bug, who's is it?

Why Microsoft's, of course.     8-0

Well, it really is. It's a design bug. 

<rant>
Microsoft has never been strong on design. In this case they borrowed
from UNIX and the old Mac OS and did the worst thing. And so we have our
file extension conflicts in the MSW registry. Archivers take precedence
over some scripting language nobody has ever heard of, especially if the
language is cross-platform. And the user loses.

Worst comes to worst, edit the registry. Make a backup first, of course.
And make sure you don't change ANYTHING but the entries for .rev. And
don't sue me if you end up associating .rev with the task bar.
</rant>

> >----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
> >From: "Edwin Gore"
> >To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:01:52
> >
> >When you go into properties and click "Change" the
> >dialog that shows up with the list of Apps should
> >have an "Other..." button. Click on this, navigate
> >to the location you installed Revolution, and
> >select Revolution.exe as the appliaction to open
> >.rev files.
> >
> >As far as figuring out what extensions are in use
> >by who, I've found http://filext.com/ to be a
> >valuable resource. For my windows work I have
> >usually settled on something that's descriptive,
> >and not in use by anything too common.

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From jtenny at willamette.edu  Tue Jul 29 00:08:01 2003
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Tue Jul 29 00:08:01 2003
Subject: multiple buttons selected
Message-ID: <3C6FE1F0-C181-11D7-8962-000393911676@willamette.edu>

I selected multiple buttons to align them. Now they stay selected, with 
the handles showing, even if I select the browse tool. If I go to 
another card and then back, the handles disappear, but if I use the 
pointer and select one, they all become selected.

I suspect they're grouped somehow, but I can't find where to ungroup 
them.

Peace,

    John

Flowing Thought Educational Solutions
503-508-3398



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Jul 29 00:40:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Jul 29 00:40:01 2003
Subject: applescript & shell for changing the screen res
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHMEMNDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Hi All

I need to have a 800x600 presentation mode for one of my apps and I'd like
to be able to switch to it without the user having to change the screen res
manually. Is there a way to do this using applescript on OS X and shell on
windows?

Cheers

Monte



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Jul 29 01:40:00 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue Jul 29 01:40:00 2003
Subject: multiple buttons selected
In-Reply-To: <3C6FE1F0-C181-11D7-8962-000393911676@willamette.edu>
References: <3C6FE1F0-C181-11D7-8962-000393911676@willamette.edu>
Message-ID: <a05200f01bb4bc12838f6@[10.0.1.2]>

>
>I suspect they're grouped somehow, but I can't find where to ungroup them.

Two tremendous resources that I depend on are the Transcript Dictionary
and the Google search of the List archives.

The List archive can be searched at:

http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com

The list archive has tons of script examples, advice, & suggestions.


The Transcript Dictionary is a little closer to home and can be found by
clicking the Documentation btn in the menubar.

Open the Transcript Dictionary, type in whatever you think might relate to what
you are trying to accomplish...in this case you suspect "group". 
Group will come
up, select it from the fld. When you have your desired word, also 
check the btn which
is named "See Also". There you will find the word "ungroup".

ungroup
if "group" is in the selectedObjects then ungroup

I wish I had a great memory like so many seem to have on this list but I
seem to be destined to remain a stumbler & bumbler...without the two tools
described above I would get nothing done.

My four brain cells which are in charge of remembering things are 
*very* grateful
for all the work which was put into the Transcript Dictionary.
Grazzi hafna, hafna Jeanne!

atb

sims



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Tue Jul 29 03:31:00 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Tue Jul 29 03:31:00 2003
Subject: The Hasp dongle -- war stories?
Message-ID: <20030729160526.F7DC.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

I have a customer with a Hypercard app protected by a MacHasp dongle,
that supposedly wants to be ported to MSW. If anyone has experience with
the Hasp dongles and Revolution, I would sure appreciate a wave of the
hand and any appropriate heads-ups.

The specific question I'm worried about right now is whether the Hasp
requires system extensions. I haven't seen any, but I haven't had a
chance to look inside the stacks very deeply. (XCFNs?)

Would also appreciates comments on other copy-protection dongles anyone
might be using with metacard, of course.

Thanks in advance ...

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From rolfk at vetvir.unizh.ch  Tue Jul 29 03:38:01 2003
From: rolfk at vetvir.unizh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans)
Date: Tue Jul 29 03:38:01 2003
Subject: Cursor Question about Transparency
In-Reply-To: <200307282210.SAA12272@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <F6CBF3A9-C19E-11D7-B6D5-003065EEE22E@vetvir.unizh.ch>

Ken Ray wrote some time ago:

-----------------------------
The best way (albeit a bit awkward) is to use Rev's own image editing
tools on a 16x16 image. The reason is that cursors need to be 3 colors
(black, white and the transparent color) and this is a real problem for
most editing programs (they like to do B/W or 4 color, but 3 color with
transparency is difficult). I've been able to create cursors outside of
Rev, but they show up properly in OS 9, Windows and OS 10.1.5, but show
up inverted in 10.2 or later. I'm in discussions with Scott Raney to see
if there's some way to get a recipe for doing this outside of the MC/Rev
environment, but so far the best suggestion is to do it in Rev. Don't
forget that if you Command-click (control-click in Windows) with the
pencil tool, you get a magnify window that you can do pixel editing in.

When I have a definitive answer, I'll post it to my site as a Tip and
let the list know.
-----------------------------

My question now, since I have the same problems as anyone else with 
cursors
how do I set the transparent color ????

I have absolutly now idea !

Can anyone help me ?

Cheers
Rolf



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Tue Jul 29 05:12:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Tue Jul 29 05:12:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <3F25879E.3090206@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <027C26CD-C1AC-11D7-A84A-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Montag, Jul 28, 2003, at 22:29 Europe/Vienna, Ray G. Miller wrote:

> In MetaCard, a checkbox becomes "unchecked" when it is disabled. Is 
> this true in Rev?
>
> Having to search thru three tabs to find the "Lock Location" checkbox 
> is not productive. Isn't that Fisk's Law?

I would call that a real "design bug", and therefore I hope that --and 
some of his brothers-- will be "fixed" soon...;)


regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Tue Jul 29 05:17:00 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Tue Jul 29 05:17:00 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00bb4b72b8e454@[68.86.46.40]>
Message-ID: <AEA412C8-C1AC-11D7-A84A-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Dienstag, Jul 29, 2003, at 03:08 Europe/Vienna, curry wrote:

> I still prefer Mac to Windows, but it's become relative in every 
> aspect--consistency, productivity, appearance, enjoyment, ethics.

Every day its becoming more a question of ethics...
regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From paeleman at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 29 06:50:00 2003
From: paeleman at hotmail.com (Joeri Paeleman)
Date: Tue Jul 29 06:50:00 2003
Subject: On openStack ... send "mouseUp" to btn "startup"
Message-ID: <Law11-F5THfyQgeDKvP00013cf3@hotmail.com>

Hi,

I've got a button "startup" with the following script:

on mouseUp
hAnswerSomething
end mouseUp

on hAnswerSomething
answer "something"
end hAnswerSomething


In my card's script, I've got the following:

on openStack
send mouseUp to btn "startup"
send hAnswerSomething to btn "startup"
end openStack


When I open my project, only the second line of the openStack-script gets 
sent (the first line returns "true", does not give an error, but just simply 
doesn't do a thing).
If I then close my stack and open it again, both lines work (so I get two 
answers).

Am I missing something here?


Joeri Paeleman

_________________________________________________________________




From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Tue Jul 29 07:39:01 2003
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Tue Jul 29 07:39:01 2003
Subject: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
In-Reply-To: <BB4A0FF2.126F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BB4A0FF2.126F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f59bb4c18b2cd12@[141.89.100.235]>

>  > A checkbox I can't uncheck is a surprise. I never (or at least almost
>>  never) encounter such beasts. Put one into your program at the very
>>  high risk that I will be sufficiently uncomfortable that I will go
>>  away. And, what is perhaps more sinister and important, I will probably
>>  never tell you why I went away.
>
>Does this mean that any time you've encountered a preference group in an
>application or the system that contains disabled checkboxes, you stop using
>the program/system immediately and trash it?
>
>I wonder how you get along without QuickTime (System
>Preferences/QuickTime/Connection tab), non US keyboard layouts (System
>Preferences/International/Input Menu Tab), the Mouse control panel (with a
>trackpad), or a modem (System Preferences/Network/Modem tab)?
>

But there is a difference whether the checkbox is enabled or not. A 
disabled checkbox is inactive, so it is perfectly normal that it 
can't be unchecked. However, the same is not true if that checkbox is 
enabled. Once it is enabled, one should be able to toggle its state.

Robert


From kee at kagi.com  Tue Jul 29 08:17:03 2003
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Tue Jul 29 08:17:03 2003
Subject: The Hasp dongle -- war stories?
In-Reply-To: <20030729160526.F7DC.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>
Message-ID: <EB25422C-C1C5-11D7-8342-000A959B2940@kagi.com>

On Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003, at 01:27 US/Pacific, Joel Rees wrote:
>
> The specific question I'm worried about right now is whether the Hasp
> requires system extensions. I haven't seen any, but I haven't had a
> chance to look inside the stacks very deeply. (XCFNs?)

Long ago my wife did a stack that used a dongle and yes, there were 
XCMDs that communicated with the dongle. We came up with a pretty 
complicated system for checking for the dongle code in the stack 
(making sure the code had not been altered to bypass the dongle) and 
then slowly destroying hypercard and the stack if the stack was messed 
with in any way. Once she was ready to ship a version, there was a 
fairly complicated set of steps that locked things down and if she did 
something out of step, she'd have to re-install hypercard. It was fun 
to work on.

Kee Nethery



From keith at vortex.co.uk  Tue Jul 29 08:27:01 2003
From: keith at vortex.co.uk (Keith Martin)
Date: Tue Jul 29 08:27:01 2003
Subject: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
In-Reply-To: <a05200f59bb4c18b2cd12@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <BB4A0FF2.126F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
 <a05200f59bb4c18b2cd12@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <a05210609bb4c1c346a43@[10.1.22.201]>

>>>  A checkbox I can't uncheck is a surprise.
>>>[snip]


>But there is a difference whether the checkbox is enabled or not. A disabled
>checkbox is inactive, so it is perfectly normal that it can't be unchecked.
>However, the same is not true if that checkbox is enabled. Once it is enabled,
>one should be able to toggle its state.


Absolutely - this is a simple matter of having a choice which only 
applies if other conditions are in a particular state. The 
alternative would be to hide the checkbox completely unless the state 
called for it, but this isn't quite as 'open' an approach to UI 
design - and isn't necessarily as kind and helpful to the user.

k


From jtenny at willamette.edu  Tue Jul 29 09:00:00 2003
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Tue Jul 29 09:00:00 2003
Subject: multiple buttons selected
In-Reply-To: <200307290734.DAA20179@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <944BDF32-C1CB-11D7-80D3-000393911676@willamette.edu>

> I suspect they're grouped somehow, but I can't find where to ungroup 
> them.

I was wrong about that, I guess. This morning when I went back to the 
stack, everything was fine.

What I did to get the problem was to use shift-click to select multiple 
buttons, which I then aligned. Normally I would then click anywhere off 
the selected buttons to deselect them. That didn't work, so I tried the 
Deselect from the menu. That didn't work, so I went to another card and 
back. That seemed to work as the handles were no longer visible, but 
clicking on one of the buttons selected them all. I went to another 
card and double-clicked on a button there, and the 'multiple button' 
inspector appeared, adding the new button to the selected list.

I emailed the list and went to bed. After a good nights sleep, both I 
and the stack seem to be fine.

But what happened?  I can't duplicate it this morning.  This is in the 
new Studio version 2.02

Peace,    John



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Tue Jul 29 09:10:01 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue Jul 29 09:10:01 2003
Subject: [Ann] Fullscreen final / Shareware marketing?
In-Reply-To: <200307091553.LAA24202@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB4C4B22.B90%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi List,


my first little app has is out of its swaddling clothes.
You find the final at http://www.derbrill.de/fullscreen

Regards,

Malte



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Tue Jul 29 09:15:01 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue Jul 29 09:15:01 2003
Subject: Shareware marketing
In-Reply-To: <200307091553.LAA24202@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB4C4C6E.B91%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Sorry for putting this in the header of my previous post.

My little app. can be found at versiontracker now. Which other resources are
there to promote Shareware?
I remember someone wrote a promotiontool in MC/Rev, but am unable to find it
in the archives.

Thanks a lot,

Malte



From heather at runrev.com  Tue Jul 29 09:27:01 2003
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Williams)
Date: Tue Jul 29 09:27:01 2003
Subject: 2.0.2 now available
Message-ID: <BB4C3FC9.1541F%heather@runrev.com>

Dear listees,

Revolution 2.0.2 is now available for download from our regular download
page at

www.runrev.com/Revolution1/downloads.html

This is a free upgrade to all existing customers. If you have an old style
license, you should have received a new unlock code by email. If you have
not yet received this or are having any problems with it please let us know
off list.

Thanks for your patience in this time of growth and change for the
Revolution!

Warm Regards,

Heather



-- 
Heather Williams <heather at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Ltd.
Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707
Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought



From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Tue Jul 29 11:45:03 2003
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Tue Jul 29 11:45:03 2003
Subject: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
In-Reply-To: <a05210609bb4c1c346a43@[10.1.22.201]>
References: <BB4A0FF2.126F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
 <a05200f59bb4c18b2cd12@[141.89.100.235]>
 <a05210609bb4c1c346a43@[10.1.22.201]>
Message-ID: <a05200f5dbb4c31cab2ad@[141.89.100.235]>

>>>>  A checkbox I can't uncheck is a surprise.
>>>>[snip]
>
>
>>But there is a difference whether the checkbox is enabled or not. A disabled
>>checkbox is inactive, so it is perfectly normal that it can't be unchecked.
>>However, the same is not true if that checkbox is enabled. Once it 
>>is enabled,
>>one should be able to toggle its state.
>
>
>Absolutely - this is a simple matter of having a choice which only 
>applies if other conditions are in a particular state. The 
>alternative would be to hide the checkbox completely unless the 
>state called for it, but this isn't quite as 'open' an approach to 
>UI design - and isn't necessarily as kind and helpful to the user.
>
>k

But if I recall the original of this long-running thread, someone 
wanted to use a checkbox to indicate a state of connection or 
something and thus the checkbox did not allow to toggle the state. I 
agree with early responders that in this situation, a checkbox is a 
wrong object to use. A graphical or textual status display should be 
used instead.

Robert


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 29 11:48:08 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 29 11:48:08 2003
Subject: Cursor Question about Transparency
In-Reply-To: <F6CBF3A9-C19E-11D7-B6D5-003065EEE22E@vetvir.unizh.ch>
Message-ID: <376D75B6-C1E3-11D7-92C9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 02:30 AM, Rolf Kocherhans wrote:

> My question now, since I have the same problems as anyone else with 
> cursors
> how do I set the transparent color ????

That is a good question.  The eraser will do it, but it is much too 
big.  Even with magnify, which I can't get to move off the center of an 
image (moot for cursors, I guess.)

I assume in a script you would set the alpha.

Dar Scott




From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Tue Jul 29 11:50:18 2003
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (Ron)
Date: Tue Jul 29 11:50:18 2003
Subject: copying multiple styled text flds?
In-Reply-To: <BB497873.3164D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BB4CB508.FCA3%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Greetings

I'm trying to copy text from several flds together and maintain their
formatting. The text may be English, Japanese unicode, or Greek each with
unique font, color, style and size.

setting the clipboarddata["htmltext"] to the htmltext of each fld in turn
and then setting the htmltext of the target fld to the clipboarddata["html"]
does not preserve the formatting.

If I simply get the htmltext of a line in one of the flds, it does not
return the textfont or other attributes in the information, it simply has
the <p> markers surrounding the lines of text. I thought the htmltext would
contain all the formatting information.

If the answer is that it only returns what is different from a default
setting, please tell me how to get the full formatting information from a
given text fld thru the htmltext property. I have tried setting the fld
textfont, setting the text textfont, before and after importing the text to
the flds.

Thanks
Ron



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 29 11:53:24 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 29 11:53:24 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <027C26CD-C1AC-11D7-A84A-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <BB4BD6D3.3184E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:

> On Montag, Jul 28, 2003, at 22:29 Europe/Vienna, Ray G. Miller wrote:
> 
>> In MetaCard, a checkbox becomes "unchecked" when it is disabled. Is
>> this true in Rev?
>> 
>> Having to search thru three tabs to find the "Lock Location" checkbox
>> is not productive. Isn't that Fisk's Law?
> 
> I would call that a real "design bug", and therefore I hope that --and
> some of his brothers-- will be "fixed" soon...;)

We could fix it ourselves in a matter of minutes if we only got word to
proceed with the inevitable open-sourcing of the MC IDE....

Dr. Raney, what's the word?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 29 12:04:02 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 29 12:04:02 2003
Subject: Universal GUI (was Re: HIG...)
In-Reply-To: <AEA412C8-C1AC-11D7-A84A-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <7959181E-C1E5-11D7-92C9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:09 AM, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:

>> I still prefer Mac to Windows, but it's become relative in every 
>> aspect--consistency, productivity, appearance, enjoyment, ethics.
>
> Every day its becoming more a question of ethics...

I would like to learn more of my ethical obligations in creating.

Dar Scott



From keith at vortex.co.uk  Tue Jul 29 12:07:03 2003
From: keith at vortex.co.uk (Keith Martin)
Date: Tue Jul 29 12:07:03 2003
Subject: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
In-Reply-To: <a05200f5dbb4c31cab2ad@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <BB4A0FF2.126F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
 <a05200f59bb4c18b2cd12@[141.89.100.235]>
 <a05210609bb4c1c346a43@[10.1.22.201]>
 <a05200f5dbb4c31cab2ad@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb4c5738e30d@[10.1.22.201]>

>But if I recall the original of this long-running thread, someone 
>wanted to use a checkbox to indicate a state of connection or 
>something and thus the checkbox did not allow to toggle the state. I 
>agree with early responders that in this situation, a checkbox is a 
>wrong object to use. A graphical or textual status display should be 
>used instead.

Ah, I didn't see that. I agree totally: a checkbox is meant to be a 
control, not just a passive indicator.

k


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Jul 29 12:10:03 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue Jul 29 12:10:03 2003
Subject: Cursor Question about Transparency
In-Reply-To: <376D75B6-C1E3-11D7-92C9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-46B5F133C1E611D7B74700039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

On 7/29/03 Dar Scott wrote

>
>On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 02:30 AM, Rolf Kocherhans wrote:
>
>> My question now, since I have the same problems as anyone else with 
>> cursors
>> how do I set the transparent color ????

Here is how I do transparency for cursor:

1) Create a black and white image in Photoshop/ImageReady/Fireworks/etc.
2) All areas that are going to be transparent I assign a color like Red.
3) When exporting I select Red to be the transparent color.  I export as png.
4) Import the image into Rev and you should be able to use it as a cursor with transparency intact.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 29 12:13:08 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 29 12:13:08 2003
Subject: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
In-Reply-To: <a05200f5dbb4c31cab2ad@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <D02EBC84-C1E6-11D7-92C9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 08:16 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

> But if I recall the original of this long-running thread, someone  
> wanted to use a checkbox to indicate a state of connection or  
> something and thus the checkbox did not allow to toggle the state. I  
> agree with early responders that in this situation, a checkbox is a  
> wrong object to use. A graphical or textual status display should be  
> used instead.

It is interesting that there seems to be no standard here.  GUIs are  
weak in boolean output and even 1-of-n output.

In some domain-oriented or vertical-market GUI practice (as opposed to  
platform-oriented), this is addressed.  In typical LabVIEW  
applications, the instrument panel metaphor is used and the obvious  
choice is a light or LED.  I have seen a different practice in physical  
security and I have heard of another in the railroad industry.

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 29 12:52:00 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Tue Jul 29 12:52:00 2003
Subject: Spell check for Rev?
References: <200307282210.SAA12238@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F26B25E.3010103@pacbell.net>

I said:
 >I get the same thing with both links on Netscape 7 (MOS 9.2) : the data
 >downloads into an edit window with:
 >
 >"#!/bin/sh
 ># MetaCard 2.4 stack
 ># The following is not ASCII text,
 ># so now would be a good time to q out of more
 >exec mc $0 "$@"
 >"


Jim counters:
"Try the following: Control click the link in Netscape and select Save
As from the drop-down menu."


HA!
Never heard of control-click! That's the trouble with us MACers: we 
never think to use the control key, that's for PCers... ;-)

As it turns out, control-click isn't even necessary. Just click and hold 
down until the popButton appears; the choose.

Ray

Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 29 12:56:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 29 12:56:01 2003
Subject: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bb4c5738e30d@[10.1.22.201]>
Message-ID: <BB4C0178.31882%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Keith Martin wrote:

> I agree totally: a checkbox is meant to be a
> control, not just a passive indicator.

Why not both?

There are circumstances where disabling the control makes sense, yet even
when disabled it should not lie:  if the property it relates to is "on" the
control should be set regardless of whether the user can interact with it at
the time.

Of course if the checkbox never becomes enabled and is used solely for
display, any button type would be inappropriate as buttons are meant to be
clicked.

A status message, icon, or other non-interactive indicator would seem a
better option for such cases.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Jul 29 13:11:00 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue Jul 29 13:11:00 2003
Subject: Step over still not fixed in 2.02
In-Reply-To: <200307291601.MAA11503@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307291601.MAA11503@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bb4c63f65c58@[66.81.135.174]>

I must say I am very disappointed that the Step Over feature of the 
debugger has not been fixed in 2.02

For me, the debugger is not usable until that is corrected. It was 
the only *serious* problem I had with 2.01.

Jim



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Jul 29 13:19:00 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Jul 29 13:19:00 2003
Subject: Cursor Question about Transparency
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-46B5F133C1E611D7B74700039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>
Message-ID: <000801c355fc$e7810de0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

Trevor,

Does this work for you on OS 9, OS X and Windows? I tried the same thing
and got an inverted cursor on one of the platforms...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Trevor DeVore
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 12:01 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Cursor Question about Transparency
> 
> 
> On 7/29/03 Dar Scott wrote
> 
> >
> >On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 02:30 AM, Rolf Kocherhans wrote:
> >
> >> My question now, since I have the same problems as anyone else with
> >> cursors
> >> how do I set the transparent color ????
> 
> Here is how I do transparency for cursor:
> 
> 1) Create a black and white image in 
> Photoshop/ImageReady/Fireworks/etc.
> 2) All areas that are going to be transparent I assign a 
> color like Red.
> 3) When exporting I select Red to be the transparent color.  
> I export as png.
> 4) Import the image into Rev and you should be able to use it 
> as a cursor with transparency intact.
> 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 29 13:29:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 29 13:29:01 2003
Subject: Cursor Question about Transparency
In-Reply-To: <000801c355fc$e7810de0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <BB4C0932.3188F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Ken Ray wrote:

>> Here is how I do transparency for cursor:
>> 
>> 1) Create a black and white image in
>> Photoshop/ImageReady/Fireworks/etc.
>> 2) All areas that are going to be transparent I assign a
>> color like Red.
>> 3) When exporting I select Red to be the transparent color.
>> I export as png.
>> 4) Import the image into Rev and you should be able to use it
>> as a cursor with transparency intact.
> 
> Does this work for you on OS 9, OS X and Windows? I tried the same thing
> and got an inverted cursor on one of the platforms...

The only reliable method I've found for generating GIFs with the proper
color order is to rely on Scott Raney: after importing the image, just edit
one pixel and change it back.  This forces the image to recompress and, as
Scott sez, the engine always uses the correct color order.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From raney at metacard.com  Tue Jul 29 13:35:01 2003
From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney)
Date: Tue Jul 29 13:35:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
References: <200307291601.MAA11503@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <002001c355ff$3d0009e0$12d39cc0@xplaptop>

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:

> > On Montag, Jul 28, 2003, at 22:29 Europe/Vienna, Ray G. Miller wrote:
>> 
>>> In MetaCard, a checkbox becomes "unchecked" when it is disabled. Is
>>> this true in Rev?
>>> 
>>> Having to search thru three tabs to find the "Lock Location" checkbox
>>> is not productive. Isn't that Fisk's Law?
>> 
>> I would call that a real "design bug", and therefore I hope that --and
>> some of his brothers-- will be "fixed" soon...;)
>
>We could fix it ourselves in a matter of minutes if we only got word to
>proceed with the inevitable open-sourcing of the MC IDE....
>
>Dr. Raney, what's the word?

Um, I was hoping that a mailing list would get set up and some serious
discussion would occur about how the maintenance organization should
be structured.  But even the first step of that seems to have fizzled...
  Regards,
    Scott

>-- 
> Richard Gaskin 
> Fourth World Media Corporation
> Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 >___________________________________________________________
 >Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 >Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 29 13:43:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 29 13:43:00 2003
Subject: The Hasp dongle -- war stories?
In-Reply-To: <EB25422C-C1C5-11D7-8342-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <91A17148-C1F3-11D7-92C9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 07:09 AM, kee nethery wrote:

> and then slowly destroying hypercard and the stack if the stack was 
> messed with in any way.

I take the virtually naive approach that intentions were good and 
report the situation as clearly as I can while minimizing the providing 
of information useful in hacking.

Dar Scott



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 29 13:45:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 29 13:45:00 2003
Subject: Step over still not fixed in 2.02
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bb4c63f65c58@[66.81.135.174]>
Message-ID: <DA834FE8-C1F3-11D7-9C31-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 12:03  PM, Jim Hurley wrote:

> I must say I am very disappointed that the Step Over feature of the 
> debugger has not been fixed in 2.02
>
> For me, the debugger is not usable until that is corrected. It was the 
> only *serious* problem I had with 2.01.

Jim, I've been using the Step Over function of the debugger quite a 
lot, in v2.0.1. The debugger is definitely usable for me. Not without 
it's quirks, but usable. Must be something particular about your script 
if it's not usable at all for you.

I remember seeing a post something about a recursive handler or 
something. I don't see anything in bugzilla from you. Have you filed a 
bugzilla report on this? Attach a stack or script that the debugger 
fails on as well.

Hope this helps,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca  Tue Jul 29 13:46:02 2003
From: nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca (nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca)
Date: Tue Jul 29 13:46:02 2003
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?
Message-ID: <ABDE55BD4D53D511B8C300500477C36101BC51AC@POSTOFFICE>

I have a screen in which these help icons fade in and out using the "with
visual effect dissolve" as a user enters information into each field on a
data entry screen. This little visual is meant to guide them as they proceed
through a form.

The idea is that the user jumps to a field, it is ready for input and then
the little effect fades in explaining what is expected, waits 2 seconds,
then fades away. Very simple and easy to create in Revolution.

The problem is that there is an delay, obviously, while this event happens,
preventing the user from entering data until my simple little assist fade
event is completed.

So, my question...

Is there a way to fire off my little fade in/out function (or any
function/message for that matter) in a separate event, process, thread (not
sure of terminology in Revolution) in which this animation message proceeds
but the user is still able to perform their data entry task without
interruption.

Assistance, as always, is greatly appreciated.

N

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From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Jul 29 13:48:02 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue Jul 29 13:48:02 2003
Subject: Cursor Question about Transparency
In-Reply-To: <000801c355fc$e7810de0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-3FC7D793C1F411D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

On 7/29/03 Ken Ray wrote

>Trevor,
>
>Does this work for you on OS 9, OS X and Windows? I tried the same thing
>and got an inverted cursor on one of the platforms...

It does work for me on all three platforms (Mac OS X.2.6, Classic, Windows 2000).  I created my cursors in Photoshop.   What program did you use and which platform did you see the problem on? 

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Jul 29 13:50:00 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue Jul 29 13:50:00 2003
Subject: Cursor Question about Transparency
In-Reply-To: <000801c355fc$e7810de0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <000801c355fc$e7810de0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <3F26C029.1060900@hyperactivesw.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 02:30 AM, Rolf Kocherhans wrote:
>My question now, since I have the same problems as anyone else with
>cursors
>how do I set the transparent color ????

Import your image. Choose the bucket tool from the paint tools. 
Ctrl-click (right-click) to make an area transparent.

BTW, I entered "transparent" into the "Search Revolution Documentation" 
plug-in to find this tip, which brought up "Shortcut to make an image 
transparent".

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Jul 29 13:52:04 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue Jul 29 13:52:04 2003
Subject: Cursor Question about Transparency
In-Reply-To: <BB4C0932.3188F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-C3A311BEC1F411D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

On 7/29/03 Richard Gaskin wrote
>
>The only reliable method I've found for generating GIFs with the proper
>color order is to rely on Scott Raney: after importing the image, just edit
>one pixel and change it back.  This forces the image to recompress and, as
>Scott sez, the engine always uses the correct color order.

I thought there was some discussion about this technique not working in Rev 2.0.  Did I misunderstand or has it been fixed?

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Jul 29 13:55:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue Jul 29 13:55:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <002001c355ff$3d0009e0$12d39cc0@xplaptop>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCGEHHFNAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Well,

I second a previoius notion of using the existing MetaCard mailing list as
the OS GUI MetaCard list. Is this possible?

--Chipp

> Um, I was hoping that a mailing list would get set up and some serious
> discussion would occur about how the maintenance organization should
> be structured.  But even the first step of that seems to have fizzled...
>   Regards,
>     Scott
>



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 29 14:02:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 29 14:02:01 2003
Subject: No more K12 education licence?
In-Reply-To: <001201c354e4$ed9f1b90$9e26fea9@piran>
Message-ID: <4157BF8C-C1F6-11D7-9C31-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 02:47  AM, Andre Rombauts wrote:

> I bought a K12 education licence 1 year ago (or so). Now I don't see 
> any reference to K12 education licence on Runrev site... :-( What 
> happened?...

If you take a look at this list's archive, there was much conversation 
about the licensing changes. List Archive for this month: 
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-July/thread.html

My understanding is that current educational licensee will receive a 
Studio license (maybe you got yours today?). Non-current K12-EDU users 
will have to buy an Express, Studio or Enterprise license.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From steve at nexpath.com  Tue Jul 29 14:05:01 2003
From: steve at nexpath.com (Steve Gehlbach)
Date: Tue Jul 29 14:05:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <002001c355ff$3d0009e0$12d39cc0@xplaptop>
References: <200307291601.MAA11503@www.runrev.com> <002001c355ff$3d0009e0$12d39cc0@xplaptop>
Message-ID: <3F26C5A4.5060300@nexpath.com>

I am new to Revolution but 20+ years in software development and 
management, Windows, Unix/Linux mostly, not much Mac experience.

I am a big fan of VHLLs, but one thing I notice that bothers me about 
Revolution is the binary (proprietary?) format of the .rev files.  I 
tried changing one byte of these files with a hex editor and the IDE 
refuses to load it.  This makes corruption quite easy and a good way to 
lose a lot of work.  Also (maybe more importantly) version control (CVS) 
is not very useful on binary files.

Is anyone else troubled by this and are there any solutions, ie, ways to 
dump the stack in text (completely and reversibly), or corrupted file 
recovery tools?

Thanks for any assistance or ideas.

-Steve



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Jul 29 14:09:01 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Jul 29 14:09:01 2003
Subject: Cursor Question about Transparency
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-3FC7D793C1F411D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>
Message-ID: <001801c35603$e950c0a0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

I tried two ways but probably didn't get the "magic combination" - I
used an older verson of Photoshop for Windows (5.5) and got it looking
right in Windows and OS X, but OS 9 was inverted. I then tried
GraphicConverter on OS X and it looked right in OS X and OS 9, but
Windows was inverted.

Hmmm... what version of Photoshop and what platform are you doing this
on?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Trevor DeVore
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:41 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: RE: Cursor Question about Transparency
> 
> 
> On 7/29/03 Ken Ray wrote
> 
> >Trevor,
> >
> >Does this work for you on OS 9, OS X and Windows? I tried the same 
> >thing and got an inverted cursor on one of the platforms...
> 
> It does work for me on all three platforms (Mac OS X.2.6, 
> Classic, Windows 2000).  I created my cursors in Photoshop.   
> What program did you use and which platform did you see the 
> problem on? 
> 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 




From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 29 14:21:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 29 14:21:01 2003
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <ABDE55BD4D53D511B8C300500477C36101BC51AC@POSTOFFICE>
Message-ID: <C7FC4B3D-C1F8-11D7-92C9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 12:39 PM, nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca  
wrote:

> Is there a way to fire off my little fade in/out function (or any  
> function/message for that matter) in a separate event, process, thread  
> (not sure of terminology in Revolution) in which this animation  
> message proceeds but the user is still able to perform their data  
> entry task without interruption.

Yes.

Look at 'send' and its friends 'cancel' and 'pendingMessages'.

Design your whole application around quick handlers for mouse and key  
events.  Add your own, as messages, using 'send ... in ...'.  These can  
be integrated with Revolution callbacks as well as your own.

I am making progress on a primer called _A Primer on Message Machinery_  
that explains all this, but I've been saying that for a while.  I've  
completed the primary examples, so it may come soon.

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Jul 29 14:23:01 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue Jul 29 14:23:01 2003
Subject: Cursor Question about Transparency
In-Reply-To: <001801c35603$e950c0a0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-2DAA9366C1F911D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

I am using Photoshop 7.0 on Mac OS X.  I use the Save for web menu option.  I can send you one of the png cursors I exported if you want to take a look on your machines.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com

On 7/29/03 Ken Ray wrote

>I tried two ways but probably didn't get the "magic combination" - I
>used an older verson of Photoshop for Windows (5.5) and got it looking
>right in Windows and OS X, but OS 9 was inverted. I then tried
>GraphicConverter on OS X and it looked right in OS X and OS 9, but
>Windows was inverted.
>
>Hmmm... what version of Photoshop and what platform are you doing this
>on?
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 
>


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 29 14:25:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 29 14:25:02 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <3F26C5A4.5060300@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <6DC1B021-C1F9-11D7-9C31-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 01:06  PM, Steve Gehlbach wrote:
>
> Is anyone else troubled by this and are there any solutions, ie, ways 
> to dump the stack in text (completely and reversibly), or corrupted 
> file recovery tools?
>
> Thanks for any assistance or ideas.
>
Steve, I don't know much about the file format at a low level. You 
point out legitimate issues though. However, there are also favorable 
aspects to the file format:

+ the RR IDE saves it's project files *extremely* fast; useful for big 
projects
+ .rev stacks can be password protected to encrypt the stack
+ .rev stacks are kind of like a natural plug-in usable by all 
developers

Although the latter two are probably just as do-able with a plain text 
format.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 29 14:28:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 29 14:28:00 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <3F26C5A4.5060300@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <C2EB40B1-C1F9-11D7-92C9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 01:06 PM, Steve Gehlbach wrote:

> I tried changing one byte of these files with a hex editor and the IDE  
> refuses to load it.

This is a good thing, IMHO.

The current strategy for corruption recovery is through backups.

 From the discussion on the list I have noticed we have both young folks  
and, uh, those of use with lots of experience.  I expect your insight,  
though newbie in Revolution, will contribute to this list.

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Jul 29 14:38:01 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue Jul 29 14:38:01 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
In-Reply-To: <C7FC4B3D-C1F8-11D7-92C9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-31E35D10C1FB11D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

I just installed 2.0.2 and entered my Commercial Enterprise license.  I open up my app I've been working on and the DB has a 20 item limit on it.  I have a query which returns 416 records but revdb_iseof returns true on record 20.  Anyone else seeing this?

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Jul 29 14:42:01 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue Jul 29 14:42:01 2003
Subject: Step over still not fixed in 2.02
In-Reply-To: <200307291753.NAA22366@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307291753.NAA22366@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bb4c79475e69@[66.81.135.174]>

>
>Message: 12
>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:38:31 -0600
>Subject: Re: Step over still not fixed in 2.02
>From: Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>
>On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 12:03  PM, Jim Hurley wrote:
>
>>  I must say I am very disappointed that the Step Over feature of the
>>  debugger has not been fixed in 2.02
>>
>>  For me, the debugger is not usable until that is corrected. It was the
>>  only *serious* problem I had with 2.01.
>
>Jim, I've been using the Step Over function of the debugger quite a
>lot, in v2.0.1. The debugger is definitely usable for me. Not without
>it's quirks, but usable. Must be something particular about your script
>if it's not usable at all for you.
>
>I remember seeing a post something about a recursive handler or
>something. I don't see anything in bugzilla from you. Have you filed a
>bugzilla report on this? Attach a stack or script that the debugger
>fails on as well.
>
>Hope this helps,
>
>Alex Rice, Software Developer
>Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
>http://ARCplanning.com
>

Alex,

Actually a number of people have mentioned this problem on this list, 
and several others have also remarked on the fact that the bug had 
been reported.

I guess a lot depends on what kind of scripts one is debugging. If 
there is extensive use of user-defined handlers, it is a nightmare 
trying to wade through a nested set of routines. It is somewhat 
quixotic. Some handlers it will step over and some it will not. Very 
frustrating.

For this reason, I have stuck with 1.1.1, waiting for this fix.

Jim


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Tue Jul 29 14:46:01 2003
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Tue Jul 29 14:46:01 2003
Subject: Filtering Strange characters in text
Message-ID: <a05210604bb4c75441c21@[192.168.1.100]>

I have a one-off app made in Rev (imported from HC and improved) that 
imports and parses a Eudora mailbox, then allows me to further edit, 
rank, and fix bad wrapping in text, then insert the html code in a 
html document. It also has a filtering function that gets rid of odd 
characters that won't look good in browsers.

Up until now, I've just used the Replace command multiple times with 
each character to lose to do the cleaning - rev is so fast it's 
instantaneous. However there seems to be at least one character that 
refuses to be filtered using the Replace command. This is the 
character:    ?   (ascii $E6 or 230 dec).

This character appears as a space in the Rev field I've created, and 
the field font is Monaco. However somehow these imbedded characters 
still end up in my html document (I am NOT using HTML text in the 
field - the HTML tags are created in the last stage before being 
inserted into the HTML text file.

I can make this work in TexEdit - it can replace the offending 
character with spaces like I need. But not the Replace command in Rev.

here's my usage:

put Replace("?"," ",theBlock) into theBlock

this doesn't work either...
put Replace(numToChar(230)," ",theBlock) into theBlock

I guess I'll try Regex next. But this should work!


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 29 14:54:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 29 14:54:01 2003
Subject: Step over still not fixed in 2.02
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bb4c79475e69@[66.81.135.174]>
Message-ID: <6F0AA1A8-C1FD-11D7-9C31-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 01:35  PM, Jim Hurley wrote:
>
> Actually a number of people have mentioned this problem on this list, 
> and several others have also remarked on the fact that the bug had 
> been reported.
>
> I guess a lot depends on what kind of scripts one is debugging. If 
> there is extensive use of user-defined handlers, it is a nightmare 
> trying to wade through a nested set of routines. It is somewhat 
> quixotic. Some handlers it will step over and some it will not. Very 
> frustrating.
>
> For this reason, I have stuck with 1.1.1, waiting for this fix.

I've just been lucky. The Rev 2.0 release notes say "All-new, 
all-singing, all-dancing debugger". I guess there are a few dance steps 
it doesn't know yet :-)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Tue Jul 29 15:14:00 2003
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Tue Jul 29 15:14:00 2003
Subject: Filtering Strange characters in text
Message-ID: <a05210607bb4c82a43ea9@[192.168.1.100]>

OOPS,
I should note in the old HC code that I had been using an XCMD called 
Replace2, which I patched using a handler that called Rev's internal 
Replace command instead of the old XCMD - a cheesy way to get my old 
code to work instead of changing all the instances (but I got up and 
running a lot quicker).

So my example should look like:

put Replace(theBlock,numToChar(230)," ") into theBlock
OR
put Replace(theBlock,"?"," ") into theBlock

something else is at work here as I copied the  "?" from my browser, 
pasted it into the Replace code. Then when I copied it back from the 
Rev script editor into the mailer for my example - it looked ok when 
I sent it, then it came back as  "?". Perhaps I should filter for 
that char!

>
>
>here's my usage:
>
>put Replace("?"," ",theBlock) into theBlock
>
>this doesn't work either...
>put Replace(numToChar(230)," ",theBlock) into theBlock
>
>I guess I'll try Regex next. But this should work!


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 15:17:01 2003
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue Jul 29 15:17:01 2003
Subject: 2.0.2 now available
In-Reply-To: <BB4C3FC9.1541F%heather@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20030729201019.37327.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com>

is this the same as the "Enterprise" option
for new users?

--- Heather Williams <heather at runrev.com> wrote:
> Dear listees,
> 
> Revolution 2.0.2 is now available for download
> from our regular download
> page at
> 
> www.runrev.com/Revolution1/downloads.html
> 
> This is a free upgrade to all existing
> customers. If you have an old style
> license, you should have received a new unlock
> code by email. If you have
> not yet received this or are having any
> problems with it please let us know
> off list.
> 
> Thanks for your patience in this time of growth
> and change for the
> Revolution!
> 
> Warm Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Heather Williams <heather at runrev.com>
> <http://www.runrev.com/>
> Runtime Revolution Ltd.
> Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639
> 830707
> Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Tue Jul 29 15:20:01 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Tue Jul 29 15:20:01 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02 
Message-ID: <BB4CA1F7.20A8%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

> I just installed 2.0.2 and entered my Commercial Enterprise license.  I open
> up my app I've been working on and the DB has a 20 item limit on it.  I have a
> query which returns 416 records but revdb_iseof returns true on record 20.
> Anyone else seeing this?
>
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com


YES! I already mentioned that in the list on July 24th and sent an email to
RunRev on July 23th when I got the Commercial Studio and Bruce Robertson
aslo reported in the list a "restricted under current license" for a CE 2.02
license... New emails yesterday and today to RR...

...still waiting for some answer with a lot of patience because after one
month the ODBC connexion does not work after proper MacOSX installation and
some email to RunRev probably lost in some obscure webholes.

Maybe due to a former best revolution, i.e. holidays? ;-)

In such bad news, at least I see that I am not alone in the dark! Thank you
Trevor!

Joel G



From steve at nexpath.com  Tue Jul 29 15:24:01 2003
From: steve at nexpath.com (Steve Gehlbach)
Date: Tue Jul 29 15:24:01 2003
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <C7FC4B3D-C1F8-11D7-92C9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <C7FC4B3D-C1F8-11D7-92C9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <3F26D83B.3020900@nexpath.com>

>> Is there a way to fire off my little fade in/out function (or any  
>> function/message for that matter) in a separate event, process, 
>> thread
>  
> Yes.
> 
> Look at 'send' and its friends 'cancel' and 'pendingMessages'.
> Dar Scott

I took the Hello World tutorial an an example and changed it as below. 
It is interesting that if you start the visual effect first, it seems to 
block the "move field".  But if you do it the way I have below, it works 
on Windows and Linux (although clunkyness may be platform dependent I 
suspect).  To me it seems that Revolution is mutithreaded sometimes.

Am I doing this along the lines of what you were suggesting?

-Steve


------------------------------------------------
***the card script:

on preOpenCard
   set the loc of field "My Field" to -100,-50
   hide graphic "My World"
end preOpenCard


on myWorldMsg
   show graphic "My World" with visual effect dissolve
end myWorldMsg

on myFieldMsg
   move field "My Field" to the location of this card
end myFieldMsg

***the Start button script:

on mouseUP

     send "myFieldMsg" to me in 1 milliseconds
     send "myWorldMsg" to me in 300 milliseconds

end mouseUP






From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 29 15:25:55 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 29 15:25:55 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <3F26C5A4.5060300@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <BB4C245D.318BD%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Steve Gehlbach wrote:

> I am a big fan of VHLLs, but one thing I notice that bothers me about
> Revolution is the binary (proprietary?) format of the .rev files.  I
> tried changing one byte of these files with a hex editor and the IDE
> refuses to load it.  This makes corruption quite easy and a good way to
> lose a lot of work.  Also (maybe more importantly) version control (CVS)
> is not very useful on binary files.
> 
> Is anyone else troubled by this and are there any solutions, ie, ways to
> dump the stack in text (completely and reversibly), or corrupted file
> recovery tools?

On the bright side, it's not much different from other proprietary binary
file formats which drive most software, with one major benefit:  automatic
backups.

While there have been very few cases of true file corruption reported in
many years across the 12 supported OSes, the possibility exists and is
accounted for.  Before the engine writes to the file it first makes a backup
of the file, using the same name as the opriginal but preceded with a tilde
(e.g., "~myFile.rev").  In the unlikely event of file corruption, you have
the last successfully saved copy waiting for you -- just toss the bad one,
remove the tilde, and you're back in action, having lost no more than the
last few minutes since your last save.

If you'd like multiple backups Chipp Walters has a nifty tool avalable to
automate this. I couldn't find the URL at his Web site, but I believe he's
included it in the Stacks index in RevNet -- in Rev just choose
Developer->Plugins->GoRevNet

I wonder why CVS doesn't work well with binaries?  For large multimedia
projects that would seem critical, no?

Personally I like the checksum enforcement in Rev files.  It means if
someone tried to crack my file they're likely to render it unsuable.  And
with less-well-enforced checksums you'll still have a problem if someone
edited the file, only you won;t be able to discover the problem until that
part of the file is accessed; at least with Rev you know up front, no
surprises waiting to be discovered down the road.


Side note about VHLLs: I'm collecting notes for a paper on VHLLs, and would
love more info about other nonb-xTalk systems, esp. those that support GUIs.
If you have experience along those lines please email me offlist and let me
know which language you use and I may have some questions for ya' if you
have the time.  Thanks. :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Tue Jul 29 15:33:01 2003
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham)
Date: Tue Jul 29 15:33:01 2003
Subject: How do I internalize an image source?
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030729170145.00c4a190@pop.wanadoo.fr>

I guess I should know this, but I couldn't find it in the docs:

An image can either have a source which is an external file with an 
explicit path (the filepath), or it can contains its own source (as the 
result of creating the image via 'import'), in which case the 'source' 
field in the Inspector for the object will be empty and no external file 
will be invoked when the image is displayed. This is explained in the TD.

How can I switch internalised sources without creating new image objects, 
as always happens (AFAIK) when one uses the 'import' command, i.e. how can 
I copy a picture (say a GIF) from one image to another without maintaining 
an external file reference in the second image and without creating a 
completely fresh image? I want to do this so as to maintain the custom 
props etc of a specific object while changing what the user sees on the 
screen, without having to install external files along with my app. I think 
it must be possible, but I can't work out how to do it.

TIA

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  




From kevin at runrev.com  Tue Jul 29 15:42:01 2003
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Tue Jul 29 15:42:01 2003
Subject: Step over still not fixed in 2.02
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bb4c63f65c58@[66.81.135.174]>
Message-ID: <BB4CB50C.1D982%kevin@runrev.com>

On 29/7/03 9:03 pm, Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:

> I must say I am very disappointed that the Step Over feature of the
> debugger has not been fixed in 2.02
> 
> For me, the debugger is not usable until that is corrected. It was
> the only *serious* problem I had with 2.01.

Yeah, we're still looking for that one - there were some other more serious
issues we did fix in 2.0.2.  (You'll note this isn't marked as fixed in the
bug database yet.)

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited: Software at the Speed of Thought
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Jul 29 15:54:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Jul 29 15:54:01 2003
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <3F26D83B.3020900@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <BB4C2B62.8179%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Steve Gehlbach"  wrote:

> I took the Hello World tutorial an an example and changed it as below.
> It is interesting that if you start the visual effect first, it seems to
> block the "move field".  But if you do it the way I have below, it works
> on Windows and Linux (although clunkyness may be platform dependent I
> suspect).  To me it seems that Revolution is mutithreaded sometimes.

As far as I've seen, Rev cannot simultaneously display a move and a visual
effect (at least, it should be very unlikely that you observe a smooth move
action along with a smooth dissolve transition, for example).

However, you can build this yourself to some extent by using the blendLevel
property with an image.  While moving an image, set its blendLevel to an a
continually increasing amount to hide it, or a continually decreasing amount
to show it.

As an example, you can see the TNT demo stack available via our stack
viewer.  In the Rev Message Box:

  go stack url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Jul 29 15:55:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue Jul 29 15:55:01 2003
Subject: How do I internalize an image source?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030729170145.00c4a190@pop.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCMEHOFNAA.chipp@chipp.com>

put url("binfile:" & "C:/test.png") into image "myinternalimage"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Graham
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 10:08 AM
> To: RunRev Users List
> Subject: How do I internalize an image source?
>
>
> I guess I should know this, but I couldn't find it in the docs:
>
> An image can either have a source which is an external file with an
> explicit path (the filepath), or it can contains its own source (as the
> result of creating the image via 'import'), in which case the 'source'
> field in the Inspector for the object will be empty and no external file
> will be invoked when the image is displayed. This is explained in the TD.
>
> How can I switch internalised sources without creating new image objects,
> as always happens (AFAIK) when one uses the 'import' command,
> i.e. how can
> I copy a picture (say a GIF) from one image to another without
> maintaining
> an external file reference in the second image and without creating a
> completely fresh image? I want to do this so as to maintain the custom
> props etc of a specific object while changing what the user sees on the
> screen, without having to install external files along with my
> app. I think
> it must be possible, but I can't work out how to do it.
>
> TIA
>
> Graham
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 29 16:03:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 29 16:03:00 2003
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <3F26D83B.3020900@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <0995F49A-C207-11D7-897C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 02:25 PM, Steve Gehlbach wrote:

> I took the Hello World tutorial an an example and changed it as below.  
> It is interesting that if you start the visual effect first, it seems  
> to block the "move field".  But if you do it the way I have below, it  
> works on Windows and Linux (although clunkyness may be platform  
> dependent I suspect).  To me it seems that Revolution is mutithreaded  
> sometimes.

I gotta run, but will answer better tonight.

In the mean time, look at wait...with messages.  This will give you an  
idea of how move works concerning messages.  Keep this in mind.  In  
wait new messages can be started, but they must complete; there is not  
interleaving of commands in two handlers.

I use move without waiting (and use the callback).  I don't know of a  
non-blocking special effect.  I should have noticed you mentioned  
special effect.  There may be a way to emulate that.

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca  Tue Jul 29 16:06:01 2003
From: nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca (nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca)
Date: Tue Jul 29 16:06:01 2003
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?
Message-ID: <ABDE55BD4D53D511B8C300500477C36101BC51B0@POSTOFFICE>

Many thanks to all who responded.  Still not working as I want it to I'm
afraid.

I tried using the send command and Revolution still wants to complete the
dissolve before relinquishing the keyboard back to the end user.

It basically wants to finish this sequence...

show button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve
wait 2 seconds
hide button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve

...first and then relinquishes command back to the keyboard for user input.

I want the above sequence to proceed while the user continues to type input
into various fields that are on the screen with NO interruption.

Possible?


N

P.S. Dar, I would be very interested in your primer.  It would be a very
interesting read.111

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Gehlbach [mailto:steve at nexpath.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:26 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?


>> Is there a way to fire off my little fade in/out function (or any 
>> function/message for that matter) in a separate event, process, 
>> thread
>  
> Yes.
> 
> Look at 'send' and its friends 'cancel' and 'pendingMessages'. Dar
> Scott

I took the Hello World tutorial an an example and changed it as below. 
It is interesting that if you start the visual effect first, it seems to 
block the "move field".  But if you do it the way I have below, it works 
on Windows and Linux (although clunkyness may be platform dependent I 
suspect).  To me it seems that Revolution is mutithreaded sometimes.

Am I doing this along the lines of what you were suggesting?

-Steve


------------------------------------------------
***the card script:

on preOpenCard
   set the loc of field "My Field" to -100,-50
   hide graphic "My World"
end preOpenCard


on myWorldMsg
   show graphic "My World" with visual effect dissolve
end myWorldMsg

on myFieldMsg
   move field "My Field" to the location of this card
end myFieldMsg

***the Start button script:

on mouseUP

     send "myFieldMsg" to me in 1 milliseconds
     send "myWorldMsg" to me in 300 milliseconds

end mouseUP




_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Jul 29 16:09:03 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Jul 29 16:09:03 2003
Subject: How do I internalize an image source?
In-Reply-To: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCMEHOFNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BB4C2EF1.817F%scott@tactilemedia.com>

> How can I switch internalised sources without creating new image objects,
> as always happens (AFAIK) when one uses the 'import' command,
> i.e. how can
> I copy a picture (say a GIF) from one image to another without
> maintaining
> an external file reference in the second image and without creating a
> completely fresh image? I want to do this so as to maintain the custom
> props etc of a specific object while changing what the user sees on the
> screen, without having to install external files along with my
> app.

I'm not quite following what you're trying to avoid here: do you just want
to prevent having two image objects that include the same data?  If so, you
can use a button to reference images by setting the icon of the button to
the id of whatever image you want.  Disable all the visual properties of the
button (threeD, autoHilite, border, etc) and you have an object that can act
as a viewer for internal images.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca  Tue Jul 29 16:28:01 2003
From: nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca (nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca)
Date: Tue Jul 29 16:28:01 2003
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?
Message-ID: <ABDE55BD4D53D511B8C300500477C36101BC51B1@POSTOFFICE>

Ahhh.

The following code...

show button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve
wait 2 seconds with messages
hide button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve

...allows messages to proceed through the message path so that other
elements can be clicked or typed and the only interruption is when the
actual show and hide commands are in progress.

Lovely.

If anyone has any further suggestions for improving how this would work it
would be greatly appreciated but this is certainly on the right track.

N

-----Original Message-----
From: nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca [mailto:nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:59 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?


Many thanks to all who responded.  Still not working as I want it to I'm
afraid.

I tried using the send command and Revolution still wants to complete the
dissolve before relinquishing the keyboard back to the end user.

It basically wants to finish this sequence...

show button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve
wait 2 seconds
hide button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve

...first and then relinquishes command back to the keyboard for user input.

I want the above sequence to proceed while the user continues to type input
into various fields that are on the screen with NO interruption.

Possible?


N

P.S. Dar, I would be very interested in your primer.  It would be a very
interesting read.111

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Gehlbach [mailto:steve at nexpath.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:26 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?


>> Is there a way to fire off my little fade in/out function (or any
>> function/message for that matter) in a separate event, process, 
>> thread
>  
> Yes.
> 
> Look at 'send' and its friends 'cancel' and 'pendingMessages'. Dar 
> Scott

I took the Hello World tutorial an an example and changed it as below. 
It is interesting that if you start the visual effect first, it seems to 
block the "move field".  But if you do it the way I have below, it works 
on Windows and Linux (although clunkyness may be platform dependent I 
suspect).  To me it seems that Revolution is mutithreaded sometimes.

Am I doing this along the lines of what you were suggesting?

-Steve


------------------------------------------------
***the card script:

on preOpenCard
   set the loc of field "My Field" to -100,-50
   hide graphic "My World"
end preOpenCard


on myWorldMsg
   show graphic "My World" with visual effect dissolve
end myWorldMsg

on myFieldMsg
   move field "My Field" to the location of this card
end myFieldMsg

***the Start button script:

on mouseUP

     send "myFieldMsg" to me in 1 milliseconds
     send "myWorldMsg" to me in 300 milliseconds

end mouseUP




_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Jul 29 16:36:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Jul 29 16:36:00 2003
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <ABDE55BD4D53D511B8C300500477C36101BC51B1@POSTOFFICE>
Message-ID: <BB4C354F.8189%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca"  wrote:

> The following code...
> 
> show button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve
> wait 2 seconds with messages
> hide button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve
> 
> ...allows messages to proceed through the message path so that other
> elements can be clicked or typed and the only interruption is when the
> actual show and hide commands are in progress.
> 
> Lovely.
> 
> If anyone has any further suggestions for improving how this would work it
> would be greatly appreciated but this is certainly on the right track.

Again, I believe visual effects do not allow simultaneous events/script
actions.  If you want users to have access to your stack while a visual
effect is taking place, you have to simulate the effect yourself, ie set the
blendLevel of an image, etc.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Jul 29 16:44:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue Jul 29 16:44:01 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
In-Reply-To: <BB4CA1F7.20A8%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
References: <BB4CA1F7.20A8%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <3F26E8EF.5020704@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/29/03 3:13 PM, Jo?l Guillod wrote:

>>I just installed 2.0.2 and entered my Commercial Enterprise license.  I open
>>up my app I've been working on and the DB has a 20 item limit on it.  I have a
>>query which returns 416 records but revdb_iseof returns true on record 20.
>>Anyone else seeing this?

Are you using Valentina? I'm not sure if this is your problem, but 
Valentina is a separate product that has its own restrictions. 
Revolution ships with the demo version which allows only limited 
operation. If you want full operation, you must purchase a Valentina 
license.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Jul 29 16:49:01 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue Jul 29 16:49:01 2003
Subject: Problems setting large width of group
In-Reply-To: <ABDE55BD4D53D511B8C300500477C36101BC51B1@POSTOFFICE>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-82ED1154C20D11D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

I have a Timeline that is a group made up of fields and buttons which is generated from a databse.  I just ran into a situation where the group size is set to 1 when the trying to set the width to a large number (60,000 pixels in this case).  In my code I set the width of the group to the formattedWidth of the group.  The formattedWidth is returned correctly but the group width is set to 1.

Anyone experienced this before?

Thanks,

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com  


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Jul 29 16:55:01 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue Jul 29 16:55:01 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
In-Reply-To: <3F26E8EF.5020704@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-56C98EAAC20E11D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

On 7/29/03 J. Landman Gay wrote

>On 7/29/03 3:13 PM, Jo?l Guillod wrote:
>
>>>I just installed 2.0.2 and entered my Commercial Enterprise license.  I open
>>>up my app I've been working on and the DB has a 20 item limit on it.  I have a
>>>query which returns 416 records but revdb_iseof returns true on record 20.
>>>Anyone else seeing this?
>
>Are you using Valentina? I'm not sure if this is your problem, but 
>Valentina is a separate product that has its own restrictions. 
>Revolution ships with the demo version which allows only limited 
>operation. If you want full operation, you must purchase a Valentina 
>license.

I am using a licensed version of Valentina.  I should have specified that this is a project I have been working on for a while and didn't not have the 20 record limit with Rev 2.0.1.  It was when I upgraded that this limit was imposed.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Jul 29 17:00:02 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:00:02 2003
Subject: Problems setting large width of group
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-82ED1154C20D11D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-0EB4AC82C20F11D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

On 7/29/03 Trevor DeVore wrote

>I have a Timeline that is a group made up of fields and buttons which is generated from a databse.  I just ran into a 
>situation where the group size is set to 1 when the trying to set the width to a large number (60,000 pixels in this 
>case).  In my code I set the width of the group to the formattedWidth of the group.  The formattedWidth is returned 
>correctly but the group width is set to 1.

I should have specified that this is in the dev environment on OS X.2.6.

I just looked at the project in a distribution on Windows and this problem does not occur.  I then looked at the same project in a distribution build on OS X and the problem does occur.  It would seem that there is a problem with the engine in OS X?  Other possibilities?

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 29 17:13:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:13:00 2003
Subject: parameter variables question
Message-ID: <D4D1BA4A-C210-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

Consider a handler that sums it's parameters before doing it's work, 
like this:

on testIt p1, p2
   if p1 + p2 = 0 then
     return "bad parameters"
   else
     -- do stuff
     return empty
   end if
end testIt

Why does this handler throw an error when called like this?

testIt 1, tSomeNonexistentVariable
-- 
-- Message execution error:
-- Error description: Operators +: error in right operand

if (p1 + p2) = 0 does not work either.

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 29 17:14:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:14:01 2003
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <ABDE55BD4D53D511B8C300500477C36101BC51B0@POSTOFFICE>
Message-ID: <06717786-C211-11D7-897C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 02:59 PM, nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca 
wrote:

> show button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve
> wait 2 seconds
> hide button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve

The two seconds we can do something about.

However, I don't know how to set up things to handle field events 
during a visual effect.

Scott mentioned blendLevel twice and I hinted at it.  Here is how a 
first pass at that might work.  Make a handler to start off the whole 
thing.  It might send the message "blendIn 98" in 20 ms which sets the 
blend level and sends off another "blendIn n" in 20 ms where n is the 
decreased amount, except when it gets down to 0 when it sends off 
"blendOut 2" in two seconds.  The blendOut n is increases the blend to 
100 where it stops sending messages to itself.  Fiddle with the blend 
steps and the delays.

This has the requirement that you make an image.

If you want the same timing on all platforms, then set the new blend 
level not by parameter, buy by the time since the start handler ran 
(save away the ms or the long seconds).  In general, this is the better 
approach because it adapts to slower computers and other things going 
on.

If you find creating an image to be a problem, you might try putting an 
image in front of the help field that has the color or pattern of the 
background and fade it out and in (backwards from above).  This will 
work if the help is computed or comes from a list.  Or you might decide 
that flying in and out is just fine.

If the user can switch cards, then you may want a way to abort the 
process (see cancel).  If you don't bother, then make sure the handler 
refers to all objects by long ID or relative to 'me'.

You want to make sure the messages don't block mouse and key events, so 
put your send at the end of your repeated handler.  (If you need exact 
timing or compute delays, not likely here, then there are exceptions.)  
Sent messages and built-in callback messages are handled before mouse 
and key events it seems, so it is possible to overload things if you 
don't put good delays in sending messages.

Again, I apologize for not noticing the visual effect need and 
responding as though this was simply send off a message to hide the 
button in two seconds.

Wouldn't it be cool if all controls had blendLevel?

Dar Scott






From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 29 17:18:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:18:01 2003
Subject: parameter variables question
In-Reply-To: <D4D1BA4A-C210-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <8D074EFD-C211-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:05  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> Consider a handler that sums it's parameters before doing it's work, 
> like this:

Ack, sorry. Once again the act of posting to the list triggers 
something and then I understand it :-)

tSomeNonexistentVariable gets evaluated as a string, so that's what's 
in p2, which is why the "+" operation fails on the RHS.


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Tue Jul 29 17:21:03 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:21:03 2003
Subject: Step over still not fixed in 2.02
References: <200307291753.NAA22366@www.runrev.com> <a05210601bb4c79475e69@[66.81.135.174]>
Message-ID: <000801c3561b$ccd87770$6701a8c0@ed>

That was me, actually. I haven't reported it because it seems to be totally
unpredictable, and I wanted to have a good recipe for repeating it before I
reported. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it steps over
evertyhing except this one recursive funtion, sometimes it doesn't step over
anything.

So - nothing useful to report beyond the debugger is broken.

Which I have reported.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Hurley" <jhurley at infostations.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: Step over still not fixed in 2.02


> >
> >Message: 12
> >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:38:31 -0600
> >Subject: Re: Step over still not fixed in 2.02
> >From: Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com>
> >To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >
> >
> >On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 12:03  PM, Jim Hurley wrote:
> >
> >>  I must say I am very disappointed that the Step Over feature of the
> >>  debugger has not been fixed in 2.02
> >>
> >>  For me, the debugger is not usable until that is corrected. It was the
> >>  only *serious* problem I had with 2.01.
> >
> >Jim, I've been using the Step Over function of the debugger quite a
> >lot, in v2.0.1. The debugger is definitely usable for me. Not without
> >it's quirks, but usable. Must be something particular about your script
> >if it's not usable at all for you.
> >
> >I remember seeing a post something about a recursive handler or
> >something. I don't see anything in bugzilla from you. Have you filed a
> >bugzilla report on this? Attach a stack or script that the debugger
> >fails on as well.
> >
> >Hope this helps,
> >
> >Alex Rice, Software Developer
> >Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> >http://ARCplanning.com
> >
>
> Alex,
>
> Actually a number of people have mentioned this problem on this list,
> and several others have also remarked on the fact that the bug had
> been reported.
>
> I guess a lot depends on what kind of scripts one is debugging. If
> there is extensive use of user-defined handlers, it is a nightmare
> trying to wade through a nested set of routines. It is somewhat
> quixotic. Some handlers it will step over and some it will not. Very
> frustrating.
>
> For this reason, I have stuck with 1.1.1, waiting for this fix.
>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From cm_sheffield at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 17:25:01 2003
From: cm_sheffield at yahoo.com (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:25:01 2003
Subject: parameter variables question
In-Reply-To: <D4D1BA4A-C210-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <20030729221846.97780.qmail@web20419.mail.yahoo.com>

I've gotten stuck by this one several times.  Because
you're returning a value, your handler has to be a
function.  Use "function" instead of "on".

Chris Sheffield

--- Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com> wrote:
> Consider a handler that sums it's parameters before
> doing it's work, 
> like this:
> 
> on testIt p1, p2
>    if p1 + p2 = 0 then
>      return "bad parameters"
>    else
>      -- do stuff
>      return empty
>    end if
> end testIt
> 
> Why does this handler throw an error when called
> like this?
> 
> testIt 1, tSomeNonexistentVariable
> -- 
> -- Message execution error:
> -- Error description: Operators +: error in right
> operand
> 
> if (p1 + p2) = 0 does not work either.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


=====
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
www.readnaturally.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Jul 29 17:29:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:29:01 2003
Subject: parameter variables question
In-Reply-To: <D4D1BA4A-C210-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB4C41CF.819E%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Alex Rice"  wrote:

> on testIt p1, p2
>  if p1 + p2 = 0 then
>    return "bad parameters"
>  else
>    -- do stuff
>    return empty
>  end if
> end testIt
> 
> Why does this handler throw an error when called like this?

Try changing "return" to "answer" or "put".

Otherwise, change "on testIt" to "function testIt".

I believe the word "return" is reserved for functions, not handlers.

Both changes work on this end.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 29 17:33:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:33:00 2003
Subject: parameter variables question
In-Reply-To: <8D074EFD-C211-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <B1F181E9-C213-11D7-897C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:11 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:05  PM, Alex Rice wrote:
>
>> Consider a handler that sums it's parameters before doing it's work, 
>> like this:
>
> Ack, sorry. Once again the act of posting to the list triggers 
> something and then I understand it :-)
>
> tSomeNonexistentVariable gets evaluated as a string, so that's what's 
> in p2, which is why the "+" operation fails on the RHS.

What's more important is that string is empty, as in "", and that is 
not a numeral and can't be interpreted as a number.

Dar



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 29 17:35:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:35:00 2003
Subject: parameter variables question
In-Reply-To: <20030729221846.97780.qmail@web20419.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FCE6A019-C213-11D7-897C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:18 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote:

> I've gotten stuck by this one several times.  Because
> you're returning a value, your handler has to be a
> function.  Use "function" instead of "on".

Here is something cool!

A handler (not a function) _can_ return a value.  The caller can get it 
with result().  Practice typically limits this to error conditions as 
in Alex's example, but it can be handy in other cases.

Dar



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 29 17:42:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:42:00 2003
Subject: parameter variables question
In-Reply-To: <B1F181E9-C213-11D7-897C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <EB40E8B2-C214-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:26  PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>>
>> tSomeNonexistentVariable gets evaluated as a string, so that's what's 
>> in p2, which is why the "+" operation fails on the RHS.
>
> What's more important is that string is empty, as in "", and that is 
> not a numeral and can't be interpreted as a number.

put empty + empty
--> 0

Actually in my example, p2 is not empty, it's literally the string 
"tSomeNonexistentVariable". I am now checking if the parameters are 
integers, before summing them.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 29 17:46:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:46:00 2003
Subject: parameter variables question
In-Reply-To: <BB4C41CF.819E%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <7750FF75-C215-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:22  PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Try changing "return" to "answer" or "put".
>
> Otherwise, change "on testIt" to "function testIt".
>
> I believe the word "return" is reserved for functions, not handlers.

Scott, and Chris:

RR Docs say
"""
Returning an error from a message handler
When used in a message handler, the return control structure serves a 
slightly different purpose: it returns an error message to the calling 
handler.

When used in a message handler, the return control structure sets the 
result function for the calling handler. If you want to return an error 
message to the calling handler, use the return control structure within 
the message handler.

Here?s an example of a message handler that displays a dialog box:

   on echoAMessage
     ask "What do you want to show?"
     if it is empty then return "No message!"
     else answer it
   end echoAMessage

"""

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Jul 29 17:53:01 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:53:01 2003
Subject: Step over still not fixed in 2.02
In-Reply-To: <200307292056.QAA01931@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307292056.QAA01931@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bb4ca662f778@[66.81.135.174]>

>
>Message: 3
>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:34:36 +0300
>Subject: Re: Step over still not fixed in 2.02
>From: Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>On 29/7/03 9:03 pm, Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
>
>>  I must say I am very disappointed that the Step Over feature of the
>>  debugger has not been fixed in 2.02
>>
>>  For me, the debugger is not usable until that is corrected. It was
>>  the only *serious* problem I had with 2.01.
>
>Yeah, we're still looking for that one - there were some other more serious
>issues we did fix in 2.0.2.  (You'll note this isn't marked as fixed in the
>bug database yet.)
>
>Kevin
>
>Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
>Runtime Revolution Limited: Software at the Speed of Thought
>Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.
>

Kevin,

If it helps, I can define with some precision what I think is the 
nature of this bug.

Create a new stack with a single button.

Button script:

on mouseUP
   breakpoint
   foo1
   beep
end mouseUp

Card script:

on foo1
   foo2
end foo1

Stack script:

on foo2
   beep 2
end foo2


If you do a "Step over" at "foo1", you step *into* "foo1" on the card 
script. If you  do a "Step over" at "foo2" in the card script, you 
step into "foo2" in the stack script.

On the other hand, if all these handers are in the same place, say 
the button script, the "Step over" works as expected, and as it did 
in 1.1.1

The problem seems to doing  a Step over when you are stepping over a 
handler in another location.

I haven't researched this thouroughly, but this is my best guess.

Hope this helps.

God, I hope helps.

Jim




From ttasovac at Princeton.EDU  Tue Jul 29 17:58:01 2003
From: ttasovac at Princeton.EDU (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:58:01 2003
Subject: Filtering Strange characters in text
In-Reply-To: <a05210607bb4c82a43ea9@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <CA1A576D-C216-11D7-9FA2-0003937B95F4@princeton.edu>

Did you by any chance set the useUnicode to true?  Because if you did, 
then the numToChar(230) will be "?" (i.e. ligature ae), which might 
explain why "?" does not get replaced... But then again, it's probably 
not this easy... :)
T.

On Utorak, Jul 29, 2003, at 22:06 Europe/Belgrade, Stephen Quinn 
Barncard wrote:

> OOPS,
> I should note in the old HC code that I had been using an XCMD called 
> Replace2, which I patched using a handler that called Rev's internal 
> Replace command instead of the old XCMD - a cheesy way to get my old 
> code to work instead of changing all the instances (but I got up and 
> running a lot quicker).
>
> So my example should look like:
>
> put Replace(theBlock,numToChar(230)," ") into theBlock
> OR
> put Replace(theBlock,"?"," ") into theBlock
>
> something else is at work here as I copied the  "?" from my browser, 
> pasted it into the Replace code. Then when I copied it back from the 
> Rev script editor into the mailer for my example - it looked ok when I 
> sent it, then it came back as  "?". Perhaps I should filter for that 
> char!
>
>>
>>
>> here's my usage:
>>
>> put Replace("?"," ",theBlock) into theBlock
>>
>> this doesn't work either...
>> put Replace(numToChar(230)," ",theBlock) into theBlock
>>
>> I guess I'll try Regex next. But this should work!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Jul 29 18:01:02 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue Jul 29 18:01:02 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
In-Reply-To: <3F26E8EF.5020704@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <BB4CA1F7.20A8%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
	 <3F26E8EF.5020704@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1059519225.1042.121.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Tue, 2003-07-29 at 23:36, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 7/29/03 3:13 PM, Jo?l Guillod wrote:
> 
> >>I just installed 2.0.2 and entered my Commercial Enterprise license.  I open
> >>up my app I've been working on and the DB has a 20 item limit on it.  I have a
> >>query which returns 416 records but revdb_iseof returns true on record 20.
> >>Anyone else seeing this?
> 
> Are you using Valentina? I'm not sure if this is your problem, but 
> Valentina is a separate product that has its own restrictions. 
> Revolution ships with the demo version which allows only limited 
> operation. If you want full operation, you must purchase a Valentina 
> license.

Hi anyone there,

Some ones running RR+PostgreSQL production-state solutions, there ? If
yes, please let me know.

Thanks a lot,
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Tue Jul 29 18:04:01 2003
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Tue Jul 29 18:04:01 2003
Subject: Filtering Strange characters in text
Message-ID: <a0521060bbb4cabdde836@[192.168.1.100]>

No, just plain text. Thanks! I solved the problem by filtering all 
chars with a value higher than ascii 127...

sqb

>Did you by any chance set the useUnicode to true?  Because if you 
>did, then the numToChar(230) will be "?" (i.e. ligature ae), which 
>might explain why "?" does not get replaced... But then again, it's 
>probably not this easy... :)
>T.
>


From mikkimi at mindspring.com  Tue Jul 29 18:18:00 2003
From: mikkimi at mindspring.com (Michael Robinson)
Date: Tue Jul 29 18:18:00 2003
Subject: Build Distribution 2.0.2 - Problems
Message-ID: <05A715B3-C21A-11D7-B7CC-0003938404E8@mindspring.com>

Anyone know how to fix the missing buttons in the build distribution 
window?

Thanks
Mike



From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch  Tue Jul 29 18:25:01 2003
From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo)
Date: Tue Jul 29 18:25:01 2003
Subject: Bug with quote and put URL 
In-Reply-To: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64506276DAA@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
Message-ID: <BB4CCDF5.B956%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>

> You might check to see that Excel is not adding quotes unilaterally during
> export.  I know it encloses a cell with quotation marks if a comma is in a
> cell, and it may do so under other circumstances.
> 
> Mark
> 
Ooooh Yes! it's an Excel Problem, not a Revolution one. I have tried to open
the text file with TextEdit and I see alle the wrong quotes.

I'm sorry!

Thank one more time Microsoft!

Fran?ois
-------------- 
Fran?ois Cuneo
Site Web d?di? au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch



From steve at nexpath.com  Tue Jul 29 18:26:01 2003
From: steve at nexpath.com (Steve Gehlbach)
Date: Tue Jul 29 18:26:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <BB4C245D.318BD%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BB4C245D.318BD%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <3F2702DE.4000609@nexpath.com>

Thanks to all who replied, your comments are very useful.

I guess I am not completely convinced that the pluses outweigh the 
minuses regarding the Revolution binary format, but I will try to keep 
an open mind.

Some other reasons for text formats:

- managing groups of engineers:  you can look at the nightly checkins to 
CVS and see how many lines of code have changed.  Also can more easily 
find when and by whom a bug was injected and how to fix it.

- CVS puts a version code in the text based on triggers like $Id$ etc, 
which is very useful when managing various releases and finding which 
version of code you have.  This would of course corrupt a .rev file.  I 
have managed to get around this for many other tools (CAD programs, 
document programs) since most have an optional text mode, such as .rtf 
in Word.  But they also frequently have bugs so the binary format is 
Truth, and the text mode is only close to the same.  .rtf is pretty 
good, though.  Revolution needs a pure text mode option, but only if it 
really works.

Since the .rev file is 95% the Transcript code in pure text form, I am 
not convinced of the speed of loading issue.  One eye blink or two? 
Were it tokenized, as Basic did once long ago, I might be more convinced.

In general, binary source code formats are the bane of the Linux world.

-Steve







From nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca  Tue Jul 29 18:30:01 2003
From: nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca (nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca)
Date: Tue Jul 29 18:30:01 2003
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?
Message-ID: <ABDE55BD4D53D511B8C300500477C36101BC51B2@POSTOFFICE>

Ok guys, you have pointed me into the right direction and I thank you very
much for your input. The wait ... with messages did the trick for me in this
instance.

However, here is something interesting.  Take the following code within a
tabbed button...
 
global pNewItem, gvarea

on menuPick pNewItem, pOldItem
    
  switch pNewItem
  case "Setup"

    put 1 into gvarea
    disable group gScroll
    show button bBubbleChooseLT
    wait 2 seconds with messages
    hide button bBubbleChooseLT
    break

  case "Track"

    put 2 into gvarea
    disable group gScroll
    enable button bSearch
    show button bBubbleChooseLO
    wait 2 seconds with messages
    hide button bBubbleChooseLO
    break

  case "Report"

    put 3 into gvarea
    disable group gScroll
    enable button bSearch
    show button bBubbleChooseLO
    wait 2 seconds with messages
    hide button bBubbleChooseLO

  end switch
  
end menuPick

Looks ok to me, however, the buttons on am showing or hiding NEVER APPEAR.
Switching between the index tabs is INCREDIBLY SLOW.

Any thoughts?  Can anyone duplicate this behaviour?

N

-----Original Message-----
From: Dar Scott [mailto:dsc at swcp.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 6:07 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?



On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 02:59 PM, nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca 
wrote:

> show button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve
> wait 2 seconds
> hide button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve

The two seconds we can do something about.

However, I don't know how to set up things to handle field events 
during a visual effect.

Scott mentioned blendLevel twice and I hinted at it.  Here is how a 
first pass at that might work.  Make a handler to start off the whole 
thing.  It might send the message "blendIn 98" in 20 ms which sets the 
blend level and sends off another "blendIn n" in 20 ms where n is the 
decreased amount, except when it gets down to 0 when it sends off 
"blendOut 2" in two seconds.  The blendOut n is increases the blend to 
100 where it stops sending messages to itself.  Fiddle with the blend 
steps and the delays.

This has the requirement that you make an image.

If you want the same timing on all platforms, then set the new blend 
level not by parameter, buy by the time since the start handler ran 
(save away the ms or the long seconds).  In general, this is the better 
approach because it adapts to slower computers and other things going 
on.

If you find creating an image to be a problem, you might try putting an 
image in front of the help field that has the color or pattern of the 
background and fade it out and in (backwards from above).  This will 
work if the help is computed or comes from a list.  Or you might decide 
that flying in and out is just fine.

If the user can switch cards, then you may want a way to abort the 
process (see cancel).  If you don't bother, then make sure the handler 
refers to all objects by long ID or relative to 'me'.

You want to make sure the messages don't block mouse and key events, so 
put your send at the end of your repeated handler.  (If you need exact 
timing or compute delays, not likely here, then there are exceptions.)  
Sent messages and built-in callback messages are handled before mouse 
and key events it seems, so it is possible to overload things if you 
don't put good delays in sending messages.

Again, I apologize for not noticing the visual effect need and 
responding as though this was simply send off a message to hide the 
button in two seconds.

Wouldn't it be cool if all controls had blendLevel?

Dar Scott




_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 29 18:31:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 29 18:31:00 2003
Subject: Build Distribution 2.0.2 - Problems
In-Reply-To: <05A715B3-C21A-11D7-B7CC-0003938404E8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <CB96E07C-C21B-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 05:11  PM, Michael Robinson wrote:

> Anyone know how to fix the missing buttons in the build distribution 
> window?

This one is the bug that will not die. It went away for a while in 
v2.0.1 :-/

-- In the message box
set the height of stack "revdistributionbuilder" to 390
save stack "revdistributionbuilder"

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-June/016858.html


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 29 18:34:01 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Tue Jul 29 18:34:01 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1683 - 16 msgs
References: <200307291753.NAA22352@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F270294.7020905@pacbell.net>

Dr Raney said:

 > Um, I was hoping that a mailing list would get set up and some serious
 > discussion would occur about how the maintenance organization should
 > be structured.  But even the first step of that seems to have
 > fizzled...
 >  Regards,
 >    Scott


OK,

Lets set it up on the MetaCard list. Richard Gaskin, Scott Rossi ?

For starters, I think the design by Scott Rossi is an excellent 
beginning point...


Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From jtenny at willamette.edu  Tue Jul 29 18:48:01 2003
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Tue Jul 29 18:48:01 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1683 - 16 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200307291753.NAA22333@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BDB6E726-C21D-11D7-B979-000393911676@willamette.edu>

> and then slowly destroying hypercard

A stack that destroys a software program when it interprets an action 
as unsuitable? Now what the word for that...? Starts with a v I think.

Destroying the stack (or a standalone version) seems defensible, but 
I'm not sure there is safe legal ground for destroying a program not 
provided by the vendor.

John



From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 29 18:54:00 2003
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Tue Jul 29 18:54:00 2003
Subject: Filtering Strange characters in text
References: <200307291925.PAA29050@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3F270727.7010005@pacbell.net>

  From: Stephen Quinn Barncard <stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com>

> I can make this work in TexEdit - it can replace the offending 
> character with spaces like I need. But not the Replace command in Rev.
> 
> here's my usage:
> 
> put Replace("?"," ",theBlock) into theBlock
> 
> this doesn't work either...
> put Replace(numToChar(230)," ",theBlock) into theBlock
> 

Try this:
put numToChar(230) into strangeText
replace strangeText with " " in theBlock

The "replace" command in MC is verrry fast.

Ray

Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 29 19:07:01 2003
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:07:01 2003
Subject: 2.0.2 now available
In-Reply-To: <BB4C3FC9.1541F%heather@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <DBDDF7C6-C220-11D7-BC55-0003936D5826@earthlink.net>

Heather,
I have not received an unlock code for v 2.0.2 but I am a licensed user 
of 2.0 (free upgrade from 1.1.1).  Please email me an unlock code for 
2.0.2. Thanks.

Marian (Petrides)

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 10:14 AM, Heather Williams wrote:

> Dear listees,
>
> Revolution 2.0.2 is now available for download from our regular 
> download
> page at
>
> www.runrev.com/Revolution1/downloads.html
>
> This is a free upgrade to all existing customers. If you have an old 
> style
> license, you should have received a new unlock code by email. If you 
> have
> not yet received this or are having any problems with it please let us 
> know
> off list.
>
> Thanks for your patience in this time of growth and change for the
> Revolution!
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Heather
>
>
>
> -- 
> Heather Williams <heather at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
> Runtime Revolution Ltd.
> Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707
> Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From mikkimi at mindspring.com  Tue Jul 29 19:13:01 2003
From: mikkimi at mindspring.com (Michael Robinson)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:13:01 2003
Subject: Build Distribution 2.0.2 - Problems
In-Reply-To: <CB96E07C-C21B-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <AC8244EB-C221-11D7-B7CC-0003938404E8@mindspring.com>

Alex,
it worked!
Thanks Mike


On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:24  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 05:11  PM, Michael Robinson wrote:
>
>> Anyone know how to fix the missing buttons in the build distribution 
>> window?
>
> This one is the bug that will not die. It went away for a while in 
> v2.0.1 :-/
>
> -- In the message box
> set the height of stack "revdistributionbuilder" to 390
> save stack "revdistributionbuilder"
>
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-June/016858.html
>
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 29 19:20:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:20:00 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <3F2702DE.4000609@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <914553EC-C222-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 05:27  PM, Steve Gehlbach wrote:

>
> In general, binary source code formats are the bane of the Linux world.

Steve, I agree that not being able to use CVS or Subversion is a huge 
issue for some folks.

However: the .rev file format is not just source code. A .rev file can 
contain images, movie and sound clips, and binary data (custom 
properties). So I guess "stack != source code" is the best way to 
describe it.

As for how we got into this situation I cannot answer :-) One of the 
xtalk old-timers could speak to that.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 29 19:21:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:21:01 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
In-Reply-To: <1059519225.1042.121.camel@www.kmax.net>
Message-ID: <D16666DA-C222-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:53  PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
> Hi anyone there,
>
> Some ones running RR+PostgreSQL production-state solutions, there ? If
> yes, please let me know.

Not me, but I do have PostgreSQL if you need someone to test something.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From kkaufman at snet.net  Tue Jul 29 19:27:00 2003
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:27:00 2003
Subject: Alan Beattie's personal prefs
Message-ID: <88BB2278-C223-11D7-B15F-0003936D1F12@snet.net>

I tried to set 202's Distribution Builder's prefs to default (after 
correcting the window size) and I got the error message:

Couldn't find file /Users/alanbeat/Latest Revolution 
Distribution/Utility Stacks/docs-converter.rev

I guess the Rev. 202 wasn't set to "factory defaults" before release.   
:-)
As they say, "Been there, done that."
-KK



From RunRev at colegroup.com  Tue Jul 29 19:27:25 2003
From: RunRev at colegroup.com (David M. Cole)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:27:25 2003
Subject: parsing out html code ...
Message-ID: <p0510031cbb4cbdf74e4c@[207.33.159.210]>

longtime listener, first-time caller ...

i need to get rid of the html code in a text file ... i wrote some 
regex stuff using an old xcmd the last time i needed to do this in hc 
... should i just port that over, or is there a simpler (i.e.: 
built-in) way to do it?

thanks.

\dmc

-- 
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
    David M. Cole                                            dmc at colegroup.com
    Editor & Publisher: The Cole Papers; NEWSINC.            V: (650) 557-9595
    Consultant: The Cole Group <http://colegroup.com/>       F: (650) 557-9696
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Tue Jul 29 19:30:03 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:30:03 2003
Subject: Build Distribution 2.0.2 - Problems
In-Reply-To: <AC8244EB-C221-11D7-B7CC-0003938404E8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <00C4AB96-C224-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 06:06  PM, Michael Robinson wrote:

> Alex,
> it worked!
> Thanks Mike
>
You're welcome! And thanks to Geoff Canyon who came up with that way of 
doing it. My way was much more circuitous.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Jul 29 19:33:02 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:33:02 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <3F2702DE.4000609@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIENNDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>
> Thanks to all who replied, your comments are very useful.
>
> I guess I am not completely convinced that the pluses outweigh the
> minuses regarding the Revolution binary format, but I will try to keep
> an open mind.
>

Hi Steve

There was an mcRipper to save a stack as XML but I think it crashes 2.x. It
shouldn't be too hard to modify though. I'd be very interested in a system
that created individual XML files for each object with references to each
other. That way it would be possible to muck around with the relationships
between objects to improve reuse & maintainability. For example you could
use the same card on two stacks and maintain the one source.

Cheers

Monte



From kee at kagi.com  Tue Jul 29 19:35:00 2003
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:35:00 2003
Subject: The Hasp dongle -- war stories?
In-Reply-To: <91A17148-C1F3-11D7-92C9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <A27C5DA2-C224-11D7-8342-000A959B2940@kagi.com>

>
>> and then slowly destroying hypercard and the stack if the stack was 
>> messed with in any way.
>
> I take the virtually naive approach that intentions were good and 
> report the situation as clearly as I can while minimizing the 
> providing of information useful in hacking.

The product was sold as part of a class presented by the author of the 
information. The distribution was extremely limited and the fear was 
that someone would reverse engineer the data and duplicate the 
intellectual property and that the lack of sales (if people could get 
it for free) would kill the ability to support the product. This had 
happened to other products in the same category. We knew there were bad 
guys out there who would try to attack the protections and try to get 
around them.

Because of the miniscule market and the certainty of attack, we were a 
great deal more aggressive in protecting the code than would make sense 
for most products. For most products the support nightmare of dealing 
with people to whom your code has actively caused problems would be 
terrible. For this situation, it was the right thing to do and it 
worked. There were no reports of the protections causing anyone harm 
and there never was a hacked version available.

Kee Nethery





From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Jul 29 19:36:02 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:36:02 2003
Subject: parsing out html code ...
In-Reply-To: <p0510031cbb4cbdf74e4c@[207.33.159.210]>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCENODFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> longtime listener, first-time caller ...
> 
> i need to get rid of the html code in a text file ... i wrote some 
> regex stuff using an old xcmd the last time i needed to do this in hc 
> ... should i just port that over, or is there a simpler (i.e.: 
> built-in) way to do it?

set the htmlText of a field to your html
then get the text of the field 

Cheers

Monte



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 29 19:40:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:40:01 2003
Subject: parameter variables question
In-Reply-To: <EB40E8B2-C214-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <5EAC7385-C225-11D7-897C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:35 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> put empty + empty
> --> 0

arg.  I should message box before opening my mouth.

Dar



From RunRev at colegroup.com  Tue Jul 29 19:48:01 2003
From: RunRev at colegroup.com (David M. Cole)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:48:01 2003
Subject: parsing out html code ...
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCENODFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCENODFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <p0510031fbb4cc4c9e881@[207.33.159.210]>

>set the htmlText of a field to your html
>then get the text of the field
>
>Cheers

thanks.

\dmc

-- 
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
    David M. Cole                                            dmc at colegroup.com
    Editor & Publisher: The Cole Papers; NEWSINC.            V: (650) 557-9595
    Consultant: The Cole Group <http://colegroup.com/>       F: (650) 557-9696
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Jul 29 20:01:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Jul 29 20:01:01 2003
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <ABDE55BD4D53D511B8C300500477C36101BC51B2@POSTOFFICE>
Message-ID: <681EE3E9-C228-11D7-897C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 05:23 PM, nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca  
wrote:
> Ok guys, you have pointed me into the right direction and I thank you  
> very
> much for your input. The wait ... with messages did the trick for me  
> in this
> instance.

Hmmm.  Your dissolve must be fast enough so you don't notice slow  
responses at the keyboard.  The 'wait ... with messages' is typically  
best used only one at a time.  If you have several handlers using that  
you get them finishing LIFO; this is not really multitasking.   
Eventually, you may need to use send.  If you think your dissolves are  
fast enough, then a single send will do the trick.

> Looks ok to me, however, the buttons on am showing or hiding NEVER  
> APPEAR.
> Switching between the index tabs is INCREDIBLY SLOW.
>
> Any thoughts?

Try 'unlock screen' after showing and hiding to force rendering the  
buttons.  The idea below may make this moot.

My guess on the slow index tabs is the long menuPick.  Again the  
solution is to use send.  Replace the wait and hide with this:

send "hideLT" to me in 2 seconds
etc

Then add to your script:

on hideLT
   hide button bBubbleChooseLT
end hideLT
etc

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Jul 29 20:07:00 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue Jul 29 20:07:00 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
In-Reply-To: <D16666DA-C222-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <D16666DA-C222-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <1059526805.1800.38.camel@www.kmax.net>

On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 02:14, Alex Rice wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:53  PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
> > Hi anyone there,
> >
> > Some ones running RR+PostgreSQL production-state solutions, there ? If
> > yes, please let me know.
> 
> Not me, but I do have PostgreSQL if you need someone to test something.

Thanks Alex for the purposal. I will try to get time to set up RR + the
native PG driver + Postgres 7.3.3 ASAP.

Bests, Pierre
> 
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From steve at nexpath.com  Tue Jul 29 20:12:01 2003
From: steve at nexpath.com (Steve Gehlbach)
Date: Tue Jul 29 20:12:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <914553EC-C222-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <914553EC-C222-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <3F2719C5.4060000@nexpath.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> However: the .rev file format is not just source code. A .rev file can 
> contain images, movie and sound clips, and binary data (custom 
> properties). So I guess "stack != source code" is the best way to 
> describe it.

Hmmm... good point.  Makes me even more nervous, though.

-Steve



From steve at nexpath.com  Tue Jul 29 20:17:01 2003
From: steve at nexpath.com (Steve Gehlbach)
Date: Tue Jul 29 20:17:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIENNDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIENNDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <3F271B1D.9060709@nexpath.com>

Monte Goulding wrote:

> There was an mcRipper to save a stack as XML but I think it crashes 2.x. It
> shouldn't be too hard to modify though. I'd be very interested in a system
> that created individual XML files for each object with references to each
> other. That way it would be possible to muck around with the relationships
> between objects to improve reuse & maintainability. For example you could
> use the same card on two stacks and maintain the one source.

Yeah, lots of advantages.  I looked at the code in Application Browser 
and it all looks doable, though I am not sure you can get all of the 
properties of an object (at least, this is what the docs say for 
"properties").  I guess XML is as good a format as any.

-Steve



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Jul 29 20:23:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Jul 29 20:23:01 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
In-Reply-To: <BB4CA1F7.20A8%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <495168DE-C22B-11D7-B2FE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

This morning I just got my license code for 2.0.2 so I have downloaded 
and tested it. I get the same problems with DB access: the correct 
number of records is reported but after 22, they just repeat. In fact, 
because the move to next record code seems to be broken, it never 
reaches the end so my test stack gets stuck in an infinite loop. Then 
when I command-period to stop it, the cursor doesn't get closed so next 
time I try to connect, I get a "restricted under current license" 
error, which is what happens if you don't close cursors when you have 
finished with them. GRRRR.

However, the same stack, connecting to exactly the same database but 
using Rev 2.0.1 works perfectly.

I built a query using the Database Query Builder in Rev 2.0.2 and it 
works fine. It returns all my records (33 in my test DB) without 
duplicating. So it looks like there is something wrong in the 
revMoveToNextRecord routine.

Workaround:
Instead of starting at record 1 and looping through each record from 
start to finish, I jumped to the last record and looped backwards. This 
worked perfectly! I'll update MySQL tests.rev and upload it to handle 
this error.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

P.S. Joel: I tried to respond to your email but my reply bounced. If 
you have another email address for me to try, please email me again.



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Jul 29 20:46:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Jul 29 20:46:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] New MySQL tests stack
Message-ID: <879DE161-C22E-11D7-B2FE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I have fixed my MySQL test stack so that it can correctly handle Rev 
2.0.2 and it's little database problem. The text of my web page has not 
yet changed to reflect the new version, but the download link will get 
you the new one. If you have been using my stack and have got Rev 
2.0.2, download the new version. It allows you to list cursors with 
more than 22 records.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Jul 29 20:48:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Jul 29 20:48:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <3F271B1D.9060709@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEOADFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> Monte Goulding wrote:
>
> > There was an mcRipper to save a stack as XML but I think it
> crashes 2.x. It
> > shouldn't be too hard to modify though. I'd be very interested
> in a system
> > that created individual XML files for each object with
> references to each
> > other. That way it would be possible to muck around with the
> relationships
> > between objects to improve reuse & maintainability. For example
> you could
> > use the same card on two stacks and maintain the one source.
>
> Yeah, lots of advantages.  I looked at the code in Application Browser
> and it all looks doable, though I am not sure you can get all of the
> properties of an object (at least, this is what the docs say for
> "properties").  I guess XML is as good a format as any.
>

Whatever properties that aren't in the properties array could be requested
individually. Unless we can get a list of them from RunRev it would be trial
and error to work out exactly what properties are listed under 'Others'. but
the properties array is a great place to start. In addition,
customProperties and customPropertySets would be needed.




From cm_sheffield at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 20:59:01 2003
From: cm_sheffield at yahoo.com (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Tue Jul 29 20:59:01 2003
Subject: parameter variables question
In-Reply-To: <7750FF75-C215-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <20030730015235.10408.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com>

Interesting.  Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.  That
could definitely come in handy.  Just goes to show
there's still a lot to learn.  :-)

Chris

--- Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:22  PM, Scott Rossi
> wrote:
> 
> > Try changing "return" to "answer" or "put".
> >
> > Otherwise, change "on testIt" to "function
> testIt".
> >
> > I believe the word "return" is reserved for
> functions, not handlers.
> 
> Scott, and Chris:
> 
> RR Docs say
> """
> Returning an error from a message handler
> When used in a message handler, the return control
> structure serves a 
> slightly different purpose: it returns an error
> message to the calling 
> handler.
> 
> When used in a message handler, the return control
> structure sets the 
> result function for the calling handler. If you want
> to return an error 
> message to the calling handler, use the return
> control structure within 
> the message handler.
> 
> Here?s an example of a message handler that displays
> a dialog box:
> 
>    on echoAMessage
>      ask "What do you want to show?"
>      if it is empty then return "No message!"
>      else answer it
>    end echoAMessage
> 
> """
> 
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


=====
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
www.readnaturally.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From cm_sheffield at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 21:09:01 2003
From: cm_sheffield at yahoo.com (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Tue Jul 29 21:09:01 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
In-Reply-To: <495168DE-C22B-11D7-B2FE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030730020216.31642.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com>

I think other database functions are not working
correctly either.  I've been working with Valentina
for several months now and not had any problems.  When
I updated to 2.0.2, suddenly the
revDatabaseColumnNamed function is not working.  It
just returns garbage.  I have verified that the data
is in fact in my database by accessing it from 2.0.1. 
Still works perfectly.  I'd be curious as to whether
or not others are experiencing similar problems.

Chris Sheffield

--- Sarah <sarahr at genesearch.com.au> wrote:
> This morning I just got my license code for 2.0.2 so
> I have downloaded 
> and tested it. I get the same problems with DB
> access: the correct 
> number of records is reported but after 22, they
> just repeat. In fact, 
> because the move to next record code seems to be
> broken, it never 
> reaches the end so my test stack gets stuck in an
> infinite loop. Then 
> when I command-period to stop it, the cursor doesn't
> get closed so next 
> time I try to connect, I get a "restricted under
> current license" 
> error, which is what happens if you don't close
> cursors when you have 
> finished with them. GRRRR.
> 
> However, the same stack, connecting to exactly the
> same database but 
> using Rev 2.0.1 works perfectly.
> 
> I built a query using the Database Query Builder in
> Rev 2.0.2 and it 
> works fine. It returns all my records (33 in my test
> DB) without 
> duplicating. So it looks like there is something
> wrong in the 
> revMoveToNextRecord routine.
> 
> Workaround:
> Instead of starting at record 1 and looping through
> each record from 
> start to finish, I jumped to the last record and
> looped backwards. This 
> worked perfectly! I'll update MySQL tests.rev and
> upload it to handle 
> this error.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/
> 
> P.S. Joel: I tried to respond to your email but my
> reply bounced. If 
> you have another email address for me to try, please
> email me again.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


=====
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
www.readnaturally.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 29 21:11:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 29 21:11:00 2003
Subject: parsing out html code ...
In-Reply-To: <p0510031cbb4cbdf74e4c@[207.33.159.210]>
Message-ID: <BB4C755E.31936%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

David M. Cole wrote:

> i need to get rid of the html code in a text file ... i wrote some
> regex stuff using an old xcmd the last time i needed to do this in hc
> ... should i just port that over, or is there a simpler (i.e.:
> built-in) way to do it?

  set the htmltext of fld 1 to tMyHtmlData
  get fld 1

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Tue Jul 29 21:22:01 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Tue Jul 29 21:22:01 2003
Subject: The Hasp dongle -- war stories?
In-Reply-To: <EB25422C-C1C5-11D7-8342-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
References: <20030729160526.F7DC.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp> <EB25422C-C1C5-11D7-8342-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <20030730111256.E7E5.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

> On Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003, at 01:27 US/Pacific, Joel Rees wrote:
> >
> > The specific question I'm worried about right now is whether the Hasp
> > requires system extensions. I haven't seen any, but I haven't had a
> > chance to look inside the stacks very deeply. (XCFNs?)
> 
> Long ago my wife did a stack that used a dongle and yes, there were 
> XCMDs that communicated with the dongle. We came up with a pretty 
> complicated system for checking for the dongle code in the stack 
> (making sure the code had not been altered to bypass the dongle) and 
> then slowly destroying hypercard and the stack if the stack was messed 
> with in any way. Once she was ready to ship a version, there was a 
> fairly complicated set of steps that locked things down and if she did 
> something out of step, she'd have to re-install hypercard. It was fun 
> to work on.

So, I should assume that these dongles are using XCMDs, and that those
XCMDs will be necessary when porting to Revolution, and that porting to
MSWindows will require something similar to those XCMDs. What I've been
able to find on-line about Hasp dongles so far doesn't tell anything
about that. (I just haven't looked hard enough yet, I know.)

Thanks.

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Jul 29 21:24:01 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue Jul 29 21:24:01 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
In-Reply-To: <20030730020216.31642.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-DF2A1150C23311D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

I have actually had problems with garbage characters getting added to the results returned from a Valentina DB in 2.0 and 2.0.1.  It seems to happen with fields defined as type Text and the garbage characters only show up on occasion.  They are just plopped onto the end of the text from the field.  I have also had problems with fields of type Text becoming corrupted when doing Updates to a Valentina DB.  I have filed a bug report but have not heard anything back yet.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com

On 7/29/03 Chris Sheffield wrote

>I think other database functions are not working
>correctly either.  I've been working with Valentina
>for several months now and not had any problems.  When
>I updated to 2.0.2, suddenly the
>revDatabaseColumnNamed function is not working.  It
>just returns garbage.  I have verified that the data
>is in fact in my database by accessing it from 2.0.1. 
>Still works perfectly.  I'd be curious as to whether
>or not others are experiencing similar problems.
>
>Chris Sheffield


From bvg at mac.com  Tue Jul 29 21:55:01 2003
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Tue Jul 29 21:55:01 2003
Subject: randomnumber / randomseed
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-DF2A1150C23311D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>
Message-ID: <4996673D-C238-11D7-93C6-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

I am experimenting with the random functions, and I would like to know 
what exactly the largest number is that the randomseed still accepts, 
as I found out that it generates the same numbers when given too large 
numbers (ca. 10 digits). Also is there such a limit on the randomnumber 
?

Does anyone know how predictable the random function is? That would 
interest me immensely. Also what kind of algorithm does it use? I am 
totally in the unknown on these things...



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 29 22:03:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 29 22:03:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <3F2719C5.4060000@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <BB4C8175.31943%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Steve Gehlbach wrote:

>> However: the .rev file format is not just source code. A .rev file can
>> contain images, movie and sound clips, and binary data (custom
>> properties). So I guess "stack != source code" is the best way to
>> describe it.
> 
> Hmmm... good point.  Makes me even more nervous, tho

Why nervous?

It's a rich and robust format capable of storing text, images, and other
data types that's very efficient and reasonably compact.

The alternative would be a folder with hundreds of tiny files sewn together
with a bloated XML file ("this" is much short than "<item>this</item>").

Don't get me wrong:  XML is of course useful for exchanging data between
applications, and with Rev's XML library you can do the same for apps you
write with it.  But IMNSHO XML is approaching overuse as a native file
format in many applications.

Given that everything from word processors to QuickTime have been using
binary formats for decades, what's there to be "nervous" about?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 29 22:05:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 29 22:05:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIENNDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <BB4C8237.31944%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Monte Goulding wrote:

> There was an mcRipper to save a stack as XML but I think it crashes 2.x. It
> shouldn't be too hard to modify though.

It is open source?

It would be nice if we could establish a pool of these sorts of goodies as
open source so we could all update/enhance/repair them.

If CSV is too limited to be able to handle binary files maybe we could
replace it with a simpler Rev-based system that does only what we need.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 29 22:10:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 29 22:10:01 2003
Subject: Alan Beattie's personal prefs
In-Reply-To: <88BB2278-C223-11D7-B15F-0003936D1F12@snet.net>
Message-ID: <BB4C834D.31946%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Kurt Kaufman wrote:

> I tried to set 202's Distribution Builder's prefs to default (after
> correcting the window size) and I got the error message:
> 
> Couldn't find file /Users/alanbeat/Latest Revolution
> Distribution/Utility Stacks/docs-converter.rev
> 
> I guess the Rev. 202 wasn't set to "factory defaults" before release.
> :-)
> As they say, "Been there, done that."

In the old HyperCard days, where storing data inside the standalone was
common, it became a popular practice to have a handler in your stack called
"StripAndShip" -- you call it just before making a standalone and it cleans
up remnant data from test sessions.

I've been using that convention in every xTalk I've used since, adding stuff
to that handler as I code so it's always reasonably complete for whatever
I'm working on at the moment.

My modified MC standalone builder calls it automatically just before
building.  Maybe a nice addition to the Rev satandalone builder?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Jul 29 22:20:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Jul 29 22:20:01 2003
Subject: MC IDE plan (was Re: Universal GUI)
In-Reply-To: <002001c355ff$3d0009e0$12d39cc0@xplaptop>
Message-ID: <BB4C85AC.3194A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Scott Raney wrote:

> Um, I was hoping that a mailing list would get set up and some serious
> discussion would occur about how the maintenance organization should
> be structured.  But even the first step of that seems to have fizzled...

On the contrary: when Scott sez "jump" we merely ask "how high?" :)

I was prepared to set up a list seprately from the MC list, but a majority
of those who spoke up suggested that we keep the discussion of the IDE on
the main list.  I can see pros and cons both ways, but since I doubt
anyone's planning radical change for the IDE I suppose the traffic related
to those messages would be relatively light.

So with the discussion venue already in place, we're left with only these
words from the acquisition FAQ:

   However, for those existing MetaCard customers that
   want to continue to use the MetaCard tools, we will
   arrange an outside group of volunteer developers to
   maintain the existing MetaCard user interface so
   that they may do so.

It was unclear exactly what arrangements needed to be made, and with
MacWorld in progress it seemed silly to pursue it at the time.

But now we're all back at our desks, pencil in hand, waiting for the lesson
plan....
 
-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Jul 29 22:26:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Jul 29 22:26:00 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
In-Reply-To: <20030730020216.31642.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7DB06D55-C23C-11D7-B2FE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

With MySQL and Rev 2.0.2, revDatabaseColumnNamed and 
revDatabaseColumnNumbered both work fine.

Sarah

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 12:22  pm, Chris Sheffield wrote:

> I think other database functions are not working
> correctly either.  I've been working with Valentina
> for several months now and not had any problems.  When
> I updated to 2.0.2, suddenly the
> revDatabaseColumnNamed function is not working.  It
> just returns garbage.  I have verified that the data
> is in fact in my database by accessing it from 2.0.1.
> Still works perfectly.  I'd be curious as to whether
> or not others are experiencing similar problems.
>
> Chris Sheffield
>
> --- Sarah <sarahr at genesearch.com.au> wrote:
>> This morning I just got my license code for 2.0.2 so
>> I have downloaded
>> and tested it. I get the same problems with DB
>> access: the correct
>> number of records is reported but after 22, they
>> just repeat. In fact,
>> because the move to next record code seems to be
>> broken, it never
>> reaches the end so my test stack gets stuck in an
>> infinite loop. Then
>> when I command-period to stop it, the cursor doesn't
>> get closed so next
>> time I try to connect, I get a "restricted under
>> current license"
>> error, which is what happens if you don't close
>> cursors when you have
>> finished with them. GRRRR.
>>
>> However, the same stack, connecting to exactly the
>> same database but
>> using Rev 2.0.1 works perfectly.
>>
>> I built a query using the Database Query Builder in
>> Rev 2.0.2 and it
>> works fine. It returns all my records (33 in my test
>> DB) without
>> duplicating. So it looks like there is something
>> wrong in the
>> revMoveToNextRecord routine.
>>
>> Workaround:
>> Instead of starting at record 1 and looping through
>> each record from
>> start to finish, I jumped to the last record and
>> looped backwards. This
>> worked perfectly! I'll update MySQL tests.rev and
>> upload it to handle
>> this error.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Sarah
>> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
>> http://www.troz.net/Rev/
>>
>> P.S. Joel: I tried to respond to your email but my
>> reply bounced. If
>> you have another email address for me to try, please
>> email me again.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> =====
> Chris Sheffield
> Read Naturally
> www.readnaturally.com
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Jul 29 23:06:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Jul 29 23:06:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <BB4C8237.31944%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCEODDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>
> Monte Goulding wrote:
>
> > There was an mcRipper to save a stack as XML but I think it
> crashes 2.x. It
> > shouldn't be too hard to modify though.
>
> It is open source?

Yes. Written by Geoff Canyon. I don't have a current url but I can send you
a copy off list if Geoff doesn't chime in ;-)
>
> It would be nice if we could establish a pool of these sorts of goodies as
> open source so we could all update/enhance/repair them.
>
> If CSV is too limited to be able to handle binary files maybe we could
> replace it with a simpler Rev-based system that does only what we need.
>
I haven't used CVS but it seems to be the industry standard. I was thinking
that creating a rev based front end for CVS would be ideal. I don't think
that a Rev system would handle multiple concurrent users very well (at least
not without a great deal of work). On the other hand modelling all rev
objects in a database could result in something unique: multi-user
concurrent programming. Like an internet whiteboard but with stacks ;-)

Cheers

Monte



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul 30 00:03:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul 30 00:03:00 2003
Subject: randomnumber / randomseed
In-Reply-To: <4996673D-C238-11D7-93C6-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <24AE1DEC-C24A-11D7-897C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 08:48 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

> I am experimenting with the random functions, and I would like to know 
> what exactly the largest number is that the randomseed still accepts, 
> as I found out that it generates the same numbers when given too large 
> numbers (ca. 10 digits). Also is there such a limit on the 
> randomnumber ?

I don't know the exact limit for random(), but I do know that 2^31 is a 
near upper bound.  The randomseed limit may be similar.  That says 
nothing on the quality of results for use of random() up to that limit.

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul 30 00:19:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul 30 00:19:00 2003
Subject: Problems setting large width of group
In-Reply-To: <r02000000-1026-82ED1154C20D11D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>
Message-ID: <5B9098C4-C24C-11D7-897C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 03:42 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> I have a Timeline that is a group made up of fields and buttons which  
> is generated from a databse.  I just ran into a situation where the  
> group size is set to 1 when the trying to set the width to a large  
> number (60,000 pixels in this case).  In my code I set the width of  
> the group to the formattedWidth of the group.  The formattedWidth is  
> returned correctly but the group width is set to 1.
>
> Anyone experienced this before?

This looks suspiciously like a 16-bit limit to me.  I have seen a limit  
in the number of pixels in a line of text in a field and I think it was  
similar.

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From katir at hindu.org  Wed Jul 30 00:31:00 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Wed Jul 30 00:31:00 2003
Subject: OT - Rev XML terms--tutorials
In-Reply-To: <495168DE-C22B-11D7-B2FE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <1BBDEA38-C24E-11D7-8164-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

I am slowly familiarizing myself with XML as a "must know" subject..

In reading through XML tutorials and the Annotated XML Specification at 
xml.com, I do not find any reference any where to the word "node" which 
we see throughout the Rev XML library.  I suspect this is a synonym for 
some standard XML term...

Question 1: What is an XML node?

Question 2:  (OT)  for the complete XML newbie...  what is your 
recommendation to get up to speed... with such a vast number or 
resources on the web and tons of books... its hard to focus....

TIA

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 00:56:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 00:56:01 2003
Subject: OT - Rev XML terms--tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1BBDEA38-C24E-11D7-8164-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <941B63D2-C251-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 11:24  PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> I am slowly familiarizing myself with XML as a "must know" subject..
>
> In reading through XML tutorials and the Annotated XML Specification 
> at xml.com, I do not find any reference any where to the word "node" 
> which we see throughout the Rev XML library.  I suspect this is a 
> synonym for some standard XML term...
>
> Question 1: What is an XML node?

Not sure, but I think it is synonymous with an XML "element". But the 
semantics are that a node is part of a tree structure. So it's an XML 
element that maybe has parent node, sibling nodes and children nodes.

> Question 2:  (OT)  for the complete XML newbie...  what is your 
> recommendation to get up to speed... with such a vast number or 
> resources on the web and tons of books... its hard to focus....

I think the SOAP_toolbox.rev tutorial (in your Sample Stacks folder) is 
a good learning resource. It's well written, walks you through an 
interesting real-world use of XML, and the revSoap functions use 
transcript's revXML functions. After seeing how SOAP works, and what 
the XML looks like, then read the source code for SOAP_toolbox.rev as 
well as the revSoap library (it's not a lot of code). Then just 
experiment with the revXML* functions. You will learn a lot faster this 
way than trying to stay awake through the Annotated XML Spec.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 00:57:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 00:57:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCEODDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <B0F69FF8-C251-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 09:59  PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> I haven't used CVS but it seems to be the industry standard.

CVS is great, but it's also very old and difficult to configure. 
Hopefully Subversion will replace CVS as an industry standard. 
http://subversion.tigris.org/

>  I was thinking that creating a rev based front end for CVS would be 
> ideal. I don't think
> that a Rev system would handle multiple concurrent users very well (at 
> least
> not without a great deal of work). On the other hand modelling all rev
> objects in a database could result in something unique: multi-user
> concurrent programming. Like an internet whiteboard but with stacks ;-)

It sounds appealing, but I'm having troubling imagining how RR would 
interface with a traditional version control system like CVS or 
Subversion.

I can, however, envision something closely tied to the IDE that is 
aware of the property inspector, the script editor, etc. and tracks 
changes into a "change library" as the user works. Specifically written 
for the RR IDE. Unrelated to CVS. IBM's Visual Age for Java had nice 
implementation of this concept. It was pretty slow though. Back to the 
CVS idea though. Kind of thinking out loud here:

re: Mapping between CVS and RR

Both CVS and Subversion are designed with the concept of "project as 
filesystem (or file tree)". Because a .rev stack is in essence NOT a 
filesystem, there is going to have to be a mapping between the version 
controlled filesystem and the data structure of a .rev stack.

One mapping would be a single, huge xml file with large sections of 
base-64 encoded binary objects. But that's not an improvement, 
usability wise. I have a 4.5 MB .rev stack. It's only a few images and 
the rest is cards and scripts. How big would that .rev file be as XML? 
8MB? 20MB? OK toss that idea.

A .rev stack is in part a hierarchy of mainstack/ substacks / cards / 
controls, so it seems a filesystem layout might work. But groups and 
backgrounds could present trouble (backgrounds are groups that appear 
on multiple cards). How would you represent background groups on the 
filesystem?

mainstackNameA/substackNameB/cardNameC/groupNameX/fieldNameY

Now suppose the user in the RR IDE turns on the background property of 
groupNameX, and places the grp, now background, on cardNameD. Would you 
represent it as:

mainstackNameA/substackNameB/cardNameC/groupNameX/...
mainstackNameA/substackNameB/cardNameD/groupNameX/...

Or as

mainstackNameA/substackNameB/backgrounds/groupNameX
mainstackNameA/substackNameB/cardNameC/@groupNameXLink/...
mainstackNameA/substackNameB/cardNameD/@groupNameXLink/...

Suppose the representation is worked out OK on the filesystem, with 
symlinks for group placements. But what if a CVS command-line user 
removes backgroundNames/groupNameX, or replaces the symlink 
groupNameXLink with an actual directory contents. This is a conflict, 
but CVS has no idea it's a conflict because CVS only detects conflicts 
at the sub-file level. The RR IDE user also has no idea it's a conflict 
because their copy of the .rev file is not synchronized with the RR IDE 
yet. Who is going to resolve the conflict?

It seems to me that, from the version control system's point of view, 
the single file binary .rev stack is really akin to the compiled C 
program. In a compiled language Project (C, Java, etc), the Makefile to 
build the project should be entered into CVS, but object code is never 
entered, and executables are never entered either.

So you will end up writing .rev Makefiles and a "stack compiler" script 
to get the version controlled project back into the IDE. Sounds 
difficult to setup, slow to execute and easy to break on accident.

re: Alternatives

+ Prefer separate stack files and library stacks instead of monolithic 
stack files with substacks. These separate stack files could be checked 
into CVS as binary files.

+ Use team coding where you would otherwise have multiple developers 
working on the same source code simultaneously via CVS.

+ Write a plugin for the Rev IDE that would version control scripts via 
CVS, but would not attempt to deal with the overall project structure 
and GUI layout issues.

Just food for thought. Don't get me wrong, I think source control is a 
great thing.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From bill at igame3d.com  Wed Jul 30 01:28:01 2003
From: bill at igame3d.com (WIlliam Griffin)
Date: Wed Jul 30 01:28:01 2003
Subject: DV out from OpenGL Game Engine
Message-ID: <57D334C2-C257-11D7-89C3-0030657D0A8E@igame3d.com>

Hello again.
Something has been on my wish list for awhile, and the Video In stuff
inspires me to ask here. Is there a way to get output to DV via 
firewire from Revolution?

I would like to be able to record game play / presentation to DV tape
for bringing back into the machine. I feel this would be faster cleaner 
and more
manageable than say writing a file.

Can this be done? If not how much would one charge for an external
to enable this?

Our OpenGL external has some crafty abilities, but right now the DV
out is not in the picture as coder man Tobi doesn't have a Dv camera
and I can't walk it over to Germany from New Jersey.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.
Bill Griffin
bill at igame3d.com
www.igame3d.com




From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Wed Jul 30 03:03:01 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Wed Jul 30 03:03:01 2003
Subject: Changing font/encoding for script editor
Message-ID: <20030730165829.4D54.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

Anyone know how to change the font and/or decoding for the script
editor? I have some Japanese comments that I would like to be able to
read, and to be able to avoid editing partial characters.

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Wed Jul 30 03:03:51 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Wed Jul 30 03:03:51 2003
Subject: dumping (exporting?) the scripts to text files
Message-ID: <20030730165847.4D56.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

Hunted around in the on-line docs and I found various kinds of import
and export and information on saving text, fields content, etc. to files,
but I didn't find anything about saving the script itself to a text file. 

I'm sure it should be doable, because one of the most necessary tools
when porting a hyperscript stack is to be able to run a multifile global
search-and-replace, and that works best if I can get the script text
into files and, say, open them in BBEdit or simply massage them with
perl.

Also, I am going to need to mass-convert these scripts from shift-JIS to
Unicode, and I really don't want to cut and paste the scripts of several
thousand objects in Mac OS-9, where I can control the interpretation of
the encodings.

Hmm. Perhaps everyone just writes metatalk/transcript scripts to do
these kinds of tasks?

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Wed Jul 30 03:54:01 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Wed Jul 30 03:54:01 2003
Subject: dumping (exporting?) the scripts to text files 
In-Reply-To: <200307291753.NAA22395@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB4D529E.BA2%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi Joel,

>Hunted around in the on-line docs and I found various kinds of import
>and export and information on saving text, fields content, etc. to files,
>but I didn't find anything about saving the script itself to a text file.

Here is a starter: Actually the stack only analyzes itself.

You need a stack, one button, one field.

Button script:

on mouseUp
  answer Folder "where shall I put the text?"
  set the defaultfolder to it
repeat with i=1 to the number of cards of this stack
  create folder( "card"&i)
  repeat with z=1 to the number of controls of cd i
    put empty into fld "Ausgabe"
    put the long name of control z&cr&the script of control z after fld
"ausgabe"
    put "file:"&the defaultfolder&"/card"&i&"/con"&z into saveTo
    put fld ausgabe into url saveTo
   -- put saveTo
  end repeat
end repeat
end mouseUp

This could easiely be turned into a plug in that lets you select the stack
first.

Hope this helps.


Regards,

Malte



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Jul 30 04:05:03 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Jul 30 04:05:03 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <B0F69FF8-C251-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOEOFDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> > I haven't used CVS but it seems to be the industry standard.
>
> CVS is great, but it's also very old and difficult to configure.
> Hopefully Subversion will replace CVS as an industry standard.
> http://subversion.tigris.org/

This says it handles binary files but I guess we don't really have a way of
relating a change in the file to a change in the stack.
>
> >  I was thinking that creating a rev based front end for CVS would be
> > ideal. I don't think
> > that a Rev system would handle multiple concurrent users very well (at
> > least
> > not without a great deal of work). On the other hand modelling all rev
> > objects in a database could result in something unique: multi-user
> > concurrent programming. Like an internet whiteboard but with stacks ;-)
>
> It sounds appealing, but I'm having troubling imagining how RR would
> interface with a traditional version control system like CVS or
> Subversion.

I think if you had a save button that saved the stack as a mess of xml files
and commited them to cvs and a button that sucked them out of cvs and built
the stack and saved it to a temp folder that would work????
>
> I can, however, envision something closely tied to the IDE that is
> aware of the property inspector, the script editor, etc. and tracks
> changes into a "change library" as the user works. Specifically written
> for the RR IDE. Unrelated to CVS. IBM's Visual Age for Java had nice
> implementation of this concept. It was pretty slow though.

I think that's where I was going with modelling rev objects in a database.
That would handle the multi-developer bit but bringing in version rollback
would make it a very complex DB.

> + Use team coding where you would otherwise have multiple developers
> working on the same source code simultaneously via CVS.
>
Hmmm... now if we could only apply that to the networked world. What about
using IM (jabber or something) to broadcast changes? If it was done well
then any field could instantly become a chatroom ;-) A log could be
maintained for rollback.

Hmmm... I think this is worth some thought ;-)

Why would this be bad? I guess if two people are trying to change the same
part of the same script or something but you would think it wouldn't happen
very often and would be obvious to both parties very quickly. Perhaps it's
the next stage in extreme programming?

> + Write a plugin for the Rev IDE that would version control scripts via
> CVS, but would not attempt to deal with the overall project structure
> and GUI layout issues.
>

It would be relatively simple to develop an interface to a script library
CVS and suck the scripts into a stack prior to using it.

> Just food for thought. Don't get me wrong, I think source control is a
> great thing.
>

I think you're right. We need something built for Rev. A system designed for
lots of little files and package structures needed in Java etc will never
work right in Rev.

Cheers

Monte



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Jul 30 04:06:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed Jul 30 04:06:01 2003
Subject: dumping (exporting?) the scripts to text files
In-Reply-To: <20030730165847.4D56.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>
Message-ID: <285211EA-C26C-11D7-8E55-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Konichi-wa Rees-san,

> Hunted around in the on-line docs and I found various kinds of import
> and export and information on saving text, fields content, etc. to 
> files,
> but I didn't find anything about saving the script itself to a text 
> file.
>
> I'm sure it should be doable, because one of the most necessary tools
> when porting a hyperscript stack is to be able to run a multifile 
> global
> search-and-replace, and that works best if I can get the script text
> into files and, say, open them in BBEdit or simply massage them with
> perl.
>
> Also, I am going to need to mass-convert these scripts from shift-JIS 
> to
> Unicode, and I really don't want to cut and paste the scripts of 
> several
> thousand objects in Mac OS-9, where I can control the interpretation of
> the encodings.
>
> Hmm. Perhaps everyone just writes metatalk/transcript scripts to do
> these kinds of tasks?

Please take a look at:

http://www.major-k.de/revstart.html

Scroll down the page to my plugin "Analyze it..."

Maybe this could be helpful to you?

> -- 
> Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
> Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
> http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From tuviah at runrev.com  Wed Jul 30 04:06:37 2003
From: tuviah at runrev.com (Tuviah Snyder)
Date: Wed Jul 30 04:06:37 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
References: <200307300529.BAA26698@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c35678$cf645830$0100a8c0@user>

>With MySQL and Rev 2.0.2, revDatabaseColumnNamed and
>revDatabaseColumnNumbered both work fine.
No reason to worry. I simply need to update RevDB with the new licensing..it
still thinks you need a pro version with a special passcode to get unlimited
acess to mysql, odbc, valentina, and postgresql databases. I applaud RunRev
for giving users access to these databases at other levels, and ecnouraging
Rev developers to write database-centric apps.

Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought



From tuviah at runrev.com  Wed Jul 30 04:10:03 2003
From: tuviah at runrev.com (Tuviah Snyder)
Date: Wed Jul 30 04:10:03 2003
Subject: OT - Rev XML terms--tutorials
References: <200307300529.BAA26698@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c35679$7e9e9720$0100a8c0@user>

>Not sure, but I think it is synonymous with an XML "element". But the
>semantics are that a node is part of a tree structure. So it's an XML
>element that maybe has parent node, sibling nodes and children nodes.
I love XML and think of XML as the text representation of a data structure.
But it may be easier for you to think of them as trees with expanding
branches. I suggest you take a look at the xml-treeview stack which comes
with Rev 2.0.

Yes and I think every application should also support saving to/importing
from XML. But then if Microsoft did that we would have a million word
processors compatible with MS Word.

Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought



From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Wed Jul 30 04:19:01 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Wed Jul 30 04:19:01 2003
Subject: Universal GUI
In-Reply-To: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCGEHHFNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <002001c355ff$3d0009e0$12d39cc0@xplaptop> <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCGEHHFNAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <20030730181109.4D58.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

> I second a previoius notion of using the existing MetaCard mailing list as
> the OS GUI MetaCard list. Is this possible?

I've been trying to get on the metacard mailing list, but the address I
sent the subscribe to was apparently not correct. 

(Had the same problem here, but I looked at the archives and got the
list address from that, and then the anti-spam handshake gave me the
command address and I was able to sign on. I was going to try that on
the metacard list, but I need one of those round tuits.)

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Wed Jul 30 04:24:01 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Wed Jul 30 04:24:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <BB4C8175.31943%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <3F2719C5.4060000@nexpath.com> <BB4C8175.31943%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030730181743.4D5A.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

> >> However: the .rev file format is not just source code. A .rev file can
> >> contain images, movie and sound clips, and binary data (custom
> >> properties). So I guess "stack != source code" is the best way to
> >> describe it.
> > 
> > Hmmm... good point.  Makes me even more nervous, tho
> 
> Why nervous?

Maintenance, as he said. With plain text and its variants, you can
eyeball the changes, worst comes to worst.

Incidentally, keeping the source in XML should not necessarily require
the use of many tiny files. XML tags are nestable.

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul 30 04:30:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul 30 04:30:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOEOFDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <BB4CDC71.3197B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Monte Goulding wrote:

> I think you're right. We need something built for Rev. A system designed for
> lots of little files and package structures needed in Java etc will never
> work right in Rev.

Here's a simple option that might serve a lot of needs sufficiently:

A tool for opening stack files and substacks, which is tied to a simple CGI
that only keeps track of check out/check-in requests at the stack level.

For example, if we were working on the MetaCard's mctools.mc stack, I could
open it through this admin tool and request check-out for, say, the
standalone builder substack.  Check-out requests grab the latest check-out
list from a central server, and if no one else has that stack checked out it
lets me do so, notifying the server of my temporary ownership.

I then work away on my own copy of mctools.mc, and when I'm done I click a
"Check In" button that spits out the substack I've been working on to a
separate stack file, compresses it, and sends it into to the server.  The
project leader (or a chron job) then runs a tool on the master copy which
deletes the corresponding subtack from the master copy and copies my
modified stack as a substack into the master.

In most work groups I've been part of it's common that multiple programmers
will want to work on the same stack file, but rare that they'll want to work
on the same substack at the same time.

So focusing on a stack-level check-in/check-out tool keeps things simple
while covering the most common case for team development.

I guess the tough question is:  Who's got two free days to write the thing?
;)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Wed Jul 30 04:38:00 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Wed Jul 30 04:38:00 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOEOFDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <B0F69FF8-C251-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com> <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOEOFDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <20030730182658.4D5E.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

> 
> > > I haven't used CVS but it seems to be the industry standard.
> >
> > CVS is great, but it's also very old and difficult to configure.
> > Hopefully Subversion will replace CVS as an industry standard.
> > http://subversion.tigris.org/
> 
> This says it handles binary files but I guess we don't really have a way of
> relating a change in the file to a change in the stack.

So binary resources (which tend to change in entirity when they change)
should be managed as the files they came from? Only actual source code
in the managed (ergo, under development) stacks?

> >
> > >  I was thinking that creating a rev based front end for CVS would be
> > > ideal. I don't think
> > > that a Rev system would handle multiple concurrent users very well (at
> > > least
> > > not without a great deal of work). On the other hand modelling all rev
> > > objects in a database could result in something unique: multi-user
> > > concurrent programming. Like an internet whiteboard but with stacks ;-)
> >
> > It sounds appealing, but I'm having troubling imagining how RR would
> > interface with a traditional version control system like CVS or
> > Subversion.
> 
> I think if you had a save button that saved the stack as a mess of xml files
> and commited them to cvs and a button that sucked them out of cvs and built
> the stack and saved it to a temp folder that would work????
> >
> > I can, however, envision something closely tied to the IDE that is
> > aware of the property inspector, the script editor, etc. and tracks
> > changes into a "change library" as the user works. Specifically written
> > for the RR IDE. Unrelated to CVS. IBM's Visual Age for Java had nice
> > implementation of this concept. It was pretty slow though.
> 
> I think that's where I was going with modelling rev objects in a database.
> That would handle the multi-developer bit but bringing in version rollback
> would make it a very complex DB.
> 
> > + Use team coding where you would otherwise have multiple developers
> > working on the same source code simultaneously via CVS.
> >
> Hmmm... now if we could only apply that to the networked world. What about
> using IM (jabber or something) to broadcast changes? If it was done well
> then any field could instantly become a chatroom ;-) A log could be
> maintained for rollback.

How about using the sandbox pattern from CVS -- each developer has
his/her own copy of everything he/she wants to look at and changes are
only registered on commits. If there is a conflict, the management
system refuses the commit and shows the committer where the conflict is
so the committer can fix it.

Figuring out what constitutes a conflict may require somewhat unique
algorithms, I suppose.

> ...

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Jul 30 04:46:00 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed Jul 30 04:46:00 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
In-Reply-To: <000b01c35678$cf645830$0100a8c0@user>
Message-ID: <A630ED5C-C271-11D7-AEEF-0003936779DE@easynet.fr>

Le mercredi, 30 jul 2003, ? 10:58 Europe/Paris, Tuviah Snyder a ?crit :

>> With MySQL and Rev 2.0.2, revDatabaseColumnNamed and
>> revDatabaseColumnNumbered both work fine.
> No reason to worry. I simply need to update RevDB with the new 
> licensing..it
> still thinks you need a pro version with a special passcode to get 
> unlimited
> acess to mysql, odbc, valentina, and postgresql databases. I applaud 
> RunRev
> for giving users access to these databases at other levels, and 
> ecnouraging
> Rev developers to write database-centric apps.

Hi Tuviah,

Thanks for explaining what about this. It make me more confident ;-)
I will do so (RR+PostgreSQL, RR+OpenBase) as soon as RevDB will be 
updated !

Bests, Pierre

>
> Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
> Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Applications WEB et ERP personnalis?s
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul 30 04:53:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul 30 04:53:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <20030730181743.4D5A.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>
Message-ID: <BB4CE1B0.31981%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Joel Rees wrote:

>>> Hmmm... good point.  Makes me even more nervous, tho
>> 
>> Why nervous?
> 
> Maintenance, as he said. With plain text and its variants, you can
> eyeball the changes, worst comes to worst.
> 
> Incidentally, keeping the source in XML should not necessarily require
> the use of many tiny files. XML tags are nestable.

What of images?  Base64'd in the XML?

If one has sufficient time between billable work there's certainly no harm
in the exercise of writing an XML exporter/importer.  But the efficiencies
of the current binary format are at least as great for Rev as with most
other commercial packages, arguably more so when one considers the workflow.

XML is indeed great for exchanging data with other programs, and the Rev
team have provided some very useful tools to make that easy and efficient.

Wen considering the same for Rev itself, however, it begs the question:
where do you want to take it?  What other programs will be able to make
useful snse of the Rev language and its closely-coupled object model?

If it's just for "eyeballing" you could probably write a reporter that
generates much more human-readable output than machine-centric
<xml><thepoint><item>XML</item></thepoint></xml>. ;)

More useful still might be a dif tool that compares versions of a stack file
and reports only the differences.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From jackie at stackandrogers.com  Wed Jul 30 05:14:00 2003
From: jackie at stackandrogers.com (Jackie Merkison)
Date: Wed Jul 30 05:14:00 2003
Subject: OenoLog Software
Message-ID: <BB4C1E21.BBE%jackie@stackandrogers.com>


We own and operate a farm winery in north Georgia and would like to have
information as to where "OenoLog" can be purchased.  We are unable to
connect with the www.oenolog.com link.

Thanks

Jackie Merkison
Tiger Mountain Vineyards



From joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp  Wed Jul 30 05:16:00 2003
From: joel at alpsgiken.gr.jp (Joel Rees)
Date: Wed Jul 30 05:16:00 2003
Subject: dumping (exporting?) the scripts to text files
In-Reply-To: <1760942F-C265-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <20030730165847.4D56.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp> <1760942F-C265-11D7-8E4A-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <20030730185233.4D64.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>

(Hope you don't mind if I shove this back to the list, Alex.)

> On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 01:59  AM, Joel Rees wrote:
> >
> > Hmm. Perhaps everyone just writes metatalk/transcript scripts to do
> > these kinds of tasks?
> 
> Probably your best bet- you can get and set the script property 
> directly:
> 
> put the script of stack "MyStack" into URL "file:/tmp/test.xxx"

Great. Tried to do that before, but for some reason I didn't go quite
far enough. 

<thinking-out-loud>
(For some reason, I don't do well with "natural language"
programming. I seem to have trouble knowing how far to let the computer
think for me, or something.)

Now I have the vicious cycle I expected -- can't load the text file in
TextEdit for some reason. (I'll check with Hexdump in a minute.) Once I
load it in Project Builder, I'm stuck, because Project Builder assumes
that the encoding was UTF-8 unless there's a BOM. No way to tell it it
was Shift-JIS.

Let's see, there was a trick that worked for fields I saw on the
Japanese users list, let's see if I can dig that out. Or maybe use this
as an excuse to buy BBEdit.
</thinking-out-loud>

Oh, and thanks, Klaus, Malte, and Fumitaka. I'll check those scripts
tomorrow, because I'm going to need a fair amount of automation with
this conversion.

<off-topic>
> What does Alpsgiken do? It's a cool looking site, but I don't read 
> Japanse.

Thanks for asking. We do outsourcing. Mostly, it's electronics design
work, but we have a software group that's busy defining itself and
getting into the black. (Used to have two groups, and I guess I need to
change my sig, as soon as I find out what the English version will be.)

I've been helping with web apps in php and perl, but we have a customer
that has some Hypercard stacks, and I'm the designated Mac guy, I guess.
</off-topic>

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From tuviah at runrev.com  Wed Jul 30 05:30:00 2003
From: tuviah at runrev.com (Tuviah Snyder)
Date: Wed Jul 30 05:30:00 2003
Subject: Changing font/encoding for script editor
References: <200307300854.EAA00740@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <007701c35684$8c220f20$0100a8c0@user>

The actual scripts are saved in Ascii..but don't see why Rev can't save the
comments in HTML along with the styles.

> Anyone know how to change the font and/or decoding for the script
> editor? I have some Japanese comments that I would like to be able to
> read, and to be able to avoid editing partial characters.
>
> --
> Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
> Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
> http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp



From heather at runrev.com  Wed Jul 30 05:37:05 2003
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Williams)
Date: Wed Jul 30 05:37:05 2003
Subject: 2.0.2 now available
In-Reply-To: <200307291925.PAA29070@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB4D5CC6.155AA%heather@runrev.com>

> is this the same as the "Enterprise" option
> for new users?

No, this is us honoring our commitment to our existing users in providing
the upgrades they are entitled to. Educational and Small Business users have
been migrated to a specially modified version of Studio, Professional users
have been migrated to Enterprise.

Did that answer the question? I'm not altogether sure what you were asking.

Once again, can I ask for everyone's patience? Some people do seem to be
having problems with the new codes, I will answer all your mail as soon as I
can. Be prepared for some delay, however, as I have a large backlog to catch
up on after MacWorld.

Regards,

Heather

> 
> --- Heather Williams <heather at runrev.com> wrote:
>> Dear listees,
>> 
>> Revolution 2.0.2 is now available for download
>> from our regular download
>> page at
>> 
>> www.runrev.com/Revolution1/downloads.html
>> 
>> This is a free upgrade to all existing
>> customers. If you have an old style
>> license, you should have received a new unlock
>> code by email. If you have
>> not yet received this or are having any
>> problems with it please let us know
>> off list.
>> 
>> Thanks for your patience in this time of growth
>> and change for the
>> Revolution!

-- 
Heather Williams <heather at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Ltd.
Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707
Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Wed Jul 30 06:23:00 2003
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Wed Jul 30 06:23:00 2003
Subject: dumping (exporting?) the scripts to text files 
In-Reply-To: <200307291753.NAA22395@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB4D7584.BA4%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi Joel,

Just turned it into a plugin...

download from 

http://www.derbrill.de/revstack/stacks/script2text.rev.zip

unzip, drop it in your Plugins Folder, look at it, throw it away if you dont
like it. :-)

Regards,

Malte



From heather at runrev.com  Wed Jul 30 06:59:01 2003
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Williams)
Date: Wed Jul 30 06:59:01 2003
Subject: Fix to distribution builder available
Message-ID: <BB4D6FF8.155D8%heather@runrev.com>

Dear listees,

We have uploaded a fix to the 2.0.2 distribution builder, here:

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/distributions/2.0/updates/

Please download this, unzip it, and place it in your components/tools
directory inside Revolution. This will substantially enhance your ability to
build standalones for OSX...

It should also fix a few other issues with this release, such as unwanted
personal preferences.

Apologies for the inconvenience.

We intend to use this directory in the future for patches and fixes, so it's
worth bookmarking it and checking there periodically between releases, to
see if we have uploaded anything for your comfort and convenience.

Regards,

Heather
-- 
Heather Williams <heather at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Ltd.
Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707
Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought



From keith at vortex.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 07:20:00 2003
From: keith at vortex.co.uk (Keith Martin)
Date: Wed Jul 30 07:20:00 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1683 - 16 msgs
In-Reply-To: <BDB6E726-C21D-11D7-B979-000393911676@willamette.edu>
References: <BDB6E726-C21D-11D7-B979-000393911676@willamette.edu>
Message-ID: <a05210604bb4d6139e8d3@[10.1.22.201]>

>>and then slowly destroying hypercard

>A stack that destroys a software program when it interprets an
>action as unsuitable? Now what the word for that...? Starts with
>a v I think.
>
>Destroying the stack (or a standalone version) seems defensible, but
>I'm not sure there is safe legal ground for destroying a program not
>provided by the vendor.

No safe ground at all. And actually, destroying the users data is a 
legal no-no too, whatever the reason for doing this. If the stack 
holds data the user entered, and the stack self-destructs on purpose, 
then the user *can* sue - and yes, there are related precedents. (And 
such events have sometimes made it into tech news stories, which is 
certainly not good publicity.)
So please, think very, very carefully before doing this sort of thing.

k


From keith at vortex.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 07:20:42 2003
From: keith at vortex.co.uk (Keith Martin)
Date: Wed Jul 30 07:20:42 2003
Subject: Of HIG, Apple, and User-Centric Design
In-Reply-To: <BB4C0178.31882%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BB4C0178.31882%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05210603bb4d5b658af5@[10.1.22.201]>

>  > I agree totally: a checkbox is meant to be a
>>  control, not just a passive indicator.

>Why not both?
[snip]
>Of course if the checkbox never becomes enabled and is used solely for
>display, any button type would be inappropriate as buttons are meant to be
>clicked.

That's what I was thinking. If it is possible to use it in some 
circumstances then it is both a control and an indicator: a good use 
of the standard UI element.

>A status message, icon, or other non-interactive indicator would seem a
>better option for such cases.

Agreed.

k


From shrap at geko.net.au  Wed Jul 30 07:32:00 2003
From: shrap at geko.net.au (Neil Phillips)
Date: Wed Jul 30 07:32:00 2003
Subject: Revolution and page setup
Message-ID: <l03130300bb46a7f52449@[210.50.97.3]>

Thanks Howard and Scott for your help with getting the printer into
landscape format.

I tried out "Answer printer" in the script after a dialogue box stating
that the printer had to be set to landscape. The printer Page Setup
dialogue box came up and the user then knows to set it to landscape. Some
paper and frustration will thus be saved, although it's not as elegant as I
would have liked. So far, so good.

Cheers

Neil




From hyperdon at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 30 08:09:00 2003
From: hyperdon at earthlink.net (Donald Watson)
Date: Wed Jul 30 08:09:00 2003
Subject: 2.0.2 now available
In-Reply-To: <BB4D5CC6.155AA%heather@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D6E56CFF-C28E-11D7-9C82-000393D28442@earthlink.net>

Actually, I think most of us on this list have no idea what we have 
been "migrated to". RR's web site still displays the message:

"Information about renewal terms, updates, and pricing will be 
available here shortly."

IMO, posting information about the "new license" categories for new 
users prior to informing current customers of their change in status 
and pricing is inexcusable.

Regards,
Don
On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 06:30 AM, Heather Williams wrote:

> Educational and Small Business users have
> been migrated to a specially modified version of Studio, Professional 
> users
> have been migrated to Enterprise.



From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Jul 30 08:20:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed Jul 30 08:20:01 2003
Subject: OenoLog Software
In-Reply-To: <BB4C1E21.BBE%jackie@stackandrogers.com>
References: <BB4C1E21.BBE%jackie@stackandrogers.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bb4d7100fa6f@[216.229.107.136]>

Dear Ms.Merkison,

I apologize for your problems accessing oenolog.com.  It's a long 
story beginning last April when I attempted to renew the domain with 
a new registry and encountered problems that were not solved before 
the domain expired the end of last month.

The website is being moved to www.oenolog.net.  It should be 
available this time next week.  I can notify you when oenolog.net is 
operational, or I can mail you a demo CD (for Macintosh) if you 
prefer to send me a postal address.

FYI, there will be a new version of OenoLog release sometime around 
the ene of the year.  That version will run on Windows, Linux, & Unix 
as well as Mac OS 9 & 10.  It will also integrate with Simple 
Solution's IT Works business software, thus providing full winery 
management capabilities in addition to OenoLog's wine production 
tracking.
-- 

Rob Cozens, President & CFO
Smart Tools, Incorporated
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
(707) 895-2584


From steve at messimercomputing.com  Wed Jul 30 08:54:01 2003
From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Stephen Messimer)
Date: Wed Jul 30 08:54:01 2003
Subject: duplicating substacks
Message-ID: <5F93DD98-C294-11D7-9F95-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>

Hi,

Using the Application Browser, is there a way to duplicate a substack 
in place?  I know I can remove the substack  from its main stack 
duplicate it and then make both of them substacks again. I'm just 
wondering if there is a faster way.

Thanks.

Steve

Stephen R. Messimer, PA
208 1st Ave. South	
Escanaba, MI 49829
www.messimercomputing.com
--
Macintosh G-4 OSX 10.2.6, OS 9.2.2, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.0.2



From steve at messimercomputing.com  Wed Jul 30 09:03:01 2003
From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Stephen Messimer)
Date: Wed Jul 30 09:03:01 2003
Subject: duplicating substacks
Message-ID: <A555D1E9-C295-11D7-9F95-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>

Hi,

Using the Application Browser, is there a way to duplicate a substack 
in place?  I know I can remove the substack in question duplicate it 
and then make both of them substacks again. I'm just wondering if there 
is a faster way to do this.  :-)

Thanks,

Steve

Stephen R. Messimer, PA
208 1st Ave. South	
Escanaba, MI 49829
www.messimercomputing.com
--
Build Computer-Based Training modules FAST with preceptorTools? -- 
Coming this Fall!
--
Macintosh G-4 OSX 10.2.6, OS 9.2.2, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.0.2


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Jul 30 09:14:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed Jul 30 09:14:01 2003
Subject: OenoLog Software
Message-ID: <a05100301bb4d81b5e749@[216.229.107.142]>

Apologies all...I don't have a clue how I managed this.

Look like a quadruple foole day for moi.     :{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Jul 30 09:23:00 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed Jul 30 09:23:00 2003
Subject: OT - Rev XML terms--tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1BBDEA38-C24E-11D7-8164-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICENCDGAA.chipp@chipp.com>

check out http://www.w3schools.com for a good *free* intro to XML


 
> Question 2:  (OT)  for the complete XML newbie...  what is your 
> recommendation to get up to speed... with such a vast number or 
> resources on the web and tons of books... its hard to focus....
> 
> TIA
> 
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
> Himalayan Academy Publications
> at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
> katir at hindu.org
> 
> www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
> www.HinduismToday.com
> www.Gurudeva.org
> www.Hindu.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 



From igor at pixelmedia.com.au  Wed Jul 30 09:24:01 2003
From: igor at pixelmedia.com.au (Igor Couto)
Date: Wed Jul 30 09:24:01 2003
Subject: duplicating substacks
In-Reply-To: <A555D1E9-C295-11D7-9F95-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>
Message-ID: <A25742D8-C298-11D7-B512-000393AD9396@pixelmedia.com.au>

Hi there!

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 11:56  PM, Stephen Messimer wrote:

> Using the Application Browser, is there a way to duplicate a substack 
> in place?  I know I can remove the substack in question duplicate it 
> and then make both of them substacks again. I'm just wondering if 
> there is a faster way to do this.  :-)
>

Some of the more experienced users can probably give you an even faster 
way to do this, but I can tell you how to do it in 2 steps instead of 3:

1) CLONE the substack - simply type "clone stack xxxxx"  in the 
messageBox. This will create a copy of the substack, as a main stack.

2) Select the new cloned stack, and using the Inspector, set its 'main 
stack' to the appropriate main stack you had in mind (or set its 
'mainStack' property using the messageBox again).

I hope this helps!

Regards,

--
Igor de Oliveira Couto
----------------------------------
igor at pixelmedia.com.au
----------------------------------



From bvg at mac.com  Wed Jul 30 09:38:00 2003
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Wed Jul 30 09:38:00 2003
Subject: randomnumber / randomseed
In-Reply-To: <24AE1DEC-C24A-11D7-897C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <8556A436-C29A-11D7-93C6-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

On Mittwoch, Jul 30, 2003, at 06:56 Europe/Zurich, Dar Scott wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 08:48 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:
>
>> I am experimenting with the random functions, and I would like to 
>> know what exactly the largest number is that the randomseed still 
>> accepts, as I found out that it generates the same numbers when given 
>> too large numbers (ca. 10 digits). Also is there such a limit on the 
>> randomnumber ?
>
> I don't know the exact limit for random(), but I do know that 2^31 is 
> a near upper bound.  The randomseed limit may be similar.  That says 
> nothing on the quality of results for use of random() up to that > limit.

This sees to  be true, well actually its (2^31) - 1 probably due to 
starting with zero. how did you come up with that number?



From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Jul 30 09:39:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed Jul 30 09:39:01 2003
Subject: OenoLog Software
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bb4d81b5e749@[216.229.107.142]>
References: <a05100301bb4d81b5e749@[216.229.107.142]>
Message-ID: <a05100301bb4d877c42b5@[216.229.107.252]>

>Look like a quadruple foole day for moi.     :{`)

Fortunately, I'm not under strict non-disclosure with Simple 
Solutions, or my smiley would be a "frowney".
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 30 09:56:00 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed Jul 30 09:56:00 2003
Subject: OT - Rev XML terms--tutorials
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPICENCDGAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <68E4581E-C29D-11D7-A8F3-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 07:16  AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> check out http://www.w3schools.com for a good *free* intro to XML

This place is a joke. It takes forever to load:
http://www.w3schools.com/downloadwww.htm
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From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul 30 10:10:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul 30 10:10:00 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <BB4CDC71.3197B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BB4D2C3A.13A3%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 7/30/03 2:22 AM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> In most work groups I've been part of it's common that multiple programmers
> will want to work on the same stack file, but rare that they'll want to work
> on the same substack at the same time.
> 
> So focusing on a stack-level check-in/check-out tool keeps things simple
> while covering the most common case for team development.
> 
> I guess the tough question is:  Who's got two free days to write the thing?

I have a stack that can read a Rev stack from a server, copy it to the local
drive for editing, and then save it back to the server with changes.  I
haven't experimented with editing substacks but I'm guessing it might work.
The only thing I don't know about is what happens if two people try to
access different substacks from the same mainstack?

It seems to me that one could use a "status" text file that is stored on the
server instead of a CGI to declare the availability of a stack/substack.
When connecting to the server, Rev first reads the file status declared in
the text file: if the status is "available", Rev continues to download the
stack/substack and writes "unavailable" to the text file.  Then reverse the
process would occur when publishing back to the server.

Other thoughts?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From jeanne at runrev.com  Wed Jul 30 10:15:03 2003
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Wed Jul 30 10:15:03 2003
Subject: OT - Rev XML terms--tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1BBDEA38-C24E-11D7-8164-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <495168DE-C22B-11D7-B2FE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <v0313033dbb4d89ebb891@[10.0.1.2]>

At 10:24PM -0700 7/29/03, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>Question 1: What is an XML node?

If you click the word, you'll see this:

node
The basic part of which an XML tree is made.

A node in an XML tree corresponds to an element in an XML document.


>Question 2:  (OT)  for the complete XML newbie...  what is your
>recommendation to get up to speed... with such a vast number or
>resources on the web and tons of books... its hard to focus....

I like Simon St. Laurent's XML book myself. But there are a lot of good
resources out there.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/




From steve at nexpath.com  Wed Jul 30 11:04:01 2003
From: steve at nexpath.com (Steve Gehlbach)
Date: Wed Jul 30 11:04:01 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <BB4D2C3A.13A3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BB4D2C3A.13A3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <3F27ECAC.4040500@nexpath.com>

I can't seem to find a command to bring a window (stack or sub-stack) to 
the front, or to give it the property "always on top", if that exits 
(non-modal).  Is there a methodology to do this in Revolution?

-Steve



From bvg at mac.com  Wed Jul 30 11:12:00 2003
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Wed Jul 30 11:12:00 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <3F27ECAC.4040500@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <897C8504-C2A7-11D7-BEFD-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

go to stack "name of stack" brings the window to the top
also making it a palette will keep it on top until you leave the 
application
On Mittwoch, Jul 30, 2003, at 18:05 Europe/Zurich, Steve Gehlbach wrote:

> I can't seem to find a command to bring a window (stack or sub-stack) 
> to the front, or to give it the property "always on top", if that 
> exits (non-modal).  Is there a methodology to do this in Revolution?
>
> -Steve
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Wed Jul 30 11:17:01 2003
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Wed Jul 30 11:17:01 2003
Subject: Limited number of DB records returned with 2.02
Message-ID: <BB4DBA8D.20B9%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

> ...
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/
> 
> P.S. Joel: I tried to respond to your email but my
> reply bounced. If
> you have another email address for me to try, please
> email me again.


Sarah,

Thank you for the workaround for database access...

About my email not reachable, could you tell me if you are using Mail under
MacOSX? Other people seem that their emails are considered as spam by my
provider but only when they use the Apple Mail application. I am also
actively checking this problem with my ISP...

Kind regards,

Joel



From keith at vortex.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 11:22:01 2003
From: keith at vortex.co.uk (Keith Martin)
Date: Wed Jul 30 11:22:01 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <897C8504-C2A7-11D7-BEFD-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
References: <897C8504-C2A7-11D7-BEFD-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bb4d9e1d30aa@[10.1.22.201]>

>>I can't seem to find a command to bring a window (stack or 
>>sub-stack) to the front, or to give it the property "always on 
>>top", if that exits (non-modal).  Is there a methodology to do this 
>>in Revolution?

>go to stack "name of stack" brings the window to the top
>also making it a palette will keep it on top until you leave the application

Interesting. Is it possible to make a window a system-wide floater? 
Something that remains visible *and* stays on top even when other 
apps are being used?

k


From steve at nexpath.com  Wed Jul 30 11:30:01 2003
From: steve at nexpath.com (Steve Gehlbach)
Date: Wed Jul 30 11:30:01 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <897C8504-C2A7-11D7-BEFD-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
References: <897C8504-C2A7-11D7-BEFD-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3F27F2DA.9090603@nexpath.com>

Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

> go to stack "name of stack" brings the window to the top
> also making it a palette will keep it on top until you leave the 
> application

Thanks very much, I couldn't seem to find it.  I kept looking for a 
property to set or something.  This is exactly what I needed.

-Steve



From heather at runrev.com  Wed Jul 30 11:33:00 2003
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Williams)
Date: Wed Jul 30 11:33:00 2003
Subject: Update available for license.rev
Message-ID: <BB4DB058.15632%heather@runrev.com>

Dear good folks,

We have posted an update to the license stack for Revolution, since a few
people are having trouble with the new codes. If you are having problems
registering 2.0.2, go to the updates directory

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/distributions/2.0/updates/

 and download the appropriate license.rev file. Unzip it, rename it, and
replace your existing license.rev file with it, to be found in the
Revolution folder, on the top level directory.

We have also updated the distribution builder fix, to account for a small
remaining problem on the Windows platform. If you are still affected by a
size issue on Windows you may want to go and download this latest fix,

My warm regards to you all,

Heather


-- 
Heather Williams <heather at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Ltd.
Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707
Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul 30 11:44:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul 30 11:44:00 2003
Subject: randomnumber / randomseed
In-Reply-To: <8556A436-C29A-11D7-93C6-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1CDCB2A0-C2AC-11D7-A082-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 08:31 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

>> I don't know the exact limit for random(), but I do know that 2^31 is  
>> a near upper bound.  The randomseed limit may be similar.  That says  
>> nothing on the quality of results for use of random() up to that >  
>> limit.
>
> This sees to  be true, well actually its (2^31) - 1 probably due to  
> starting with zero. how did you come up with that number?

Well, first of all, seeing 32-bit limits all over Revolution and  
knowing C programmers often use int when uint is needed and knowing  
code is often borrowed from other sources, I suspected 2^32-1 and  
2^31-1 as limits from the start.

I then ran this:

on mouseUp
   put empty into field "Report"
   put 1 into exponent
   repeat with i = 1 to 36
     put 0 into theMax
     put 2^i into range
     repeat 100000 times
       put random(range) into x
       if x > theMax then put x into theMax
     end repeat
     put i && theMax & LF after field "Report"
   end repeat
end mouseUp

I got this on OS X:

1 2
2 4
3 8
4 16
5 32
6 64
7 128
8 256
9 512
10 1024
11 2048
12 4096
13 8192
14 16384
15 32768
16 65535
17 131072
18 262144
19 524285
20 1048563
21 2097130
22 4194187
23 8388578
24 16777200
25 33554312
26 67108050
27 134216418
28 268428169
29 536864723
30 1073740741
31 2147446498
32 2147479603
33 2147475667
34 2147465454
35 2147467104
36 2147383474

And noting 2^31 = 2147483648, I saw the discontinuity above.  For  
larger numbers, you usually won't get the value given to random() but  
you still come %-wise close.  The exceptions are above 2^31.


I haven't explored random() much more than this.  I'm willing to  
provide more guesses, if you'd like.

I would use random(99999) in a random sort, such as shuffling cards.  I  
would use random() in a simple game-type simulation with a small number  
of choices.  There might be cases where I'd be tempted to use random(x)  
where x is up to 10000.

I would think carefully before using random() in fragile probabilistic  
simulations.

I would not use random() in cryptography.

I might break my own rules.  I've been thinking about a function that  
returns a random number [1,2), that is, >=1, <2, and I might use  
random() in the first pass.  I have an idea for one [0,1) that gets a  
little finer as numbers get smaller.  I might consider random() as the  
second random source for Algorithm M&M which combines random sequences  
to make a better one, but if my other source is good, why do I need  
random()?

I don't have a good, recent, C-or-unix-oriented source concerning  
random numbers that might help you guess the method used in Revolution.  
  I do have Knuth, which I used for creating random number generators a  
quarter of a century ago.  I also have some crypto sources, which I  
would likely use today.  If you are considering rolling your own, I can  
point you to sources.

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****


From nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca  Wed Jul 30 11:47:01 2003
From: nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca (nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca)
Date: Wed Jul 30 11:47:01 2003
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?
Message-ID: <ABDE55BD4D53D511B8C300500477C36101BC51B4@POSTOFFICE>

The strange thing about my fade in/out effects is that they work in all
other aspects of the program (using the wait 2 seconds with messages does
the trick for me) but in the menuPick listed below it does not work at all.
This is the _only_ place that it doesn't work.

I am going to try sends as suggested to see if that works it out.

I'll also post a "resolved" message once I've worked it out, however, all
and any further assistance/suggestions are certainly appreciated.

N

-----Original Message-----
From: nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca [mailto:nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 7:23 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?


Ok guys, you have pointed me into the right direction and I thank you very
much for your input. The wait ... with messages did the trick for me in this
instance.

However, here is something interesting.  Take the following code within a
tabbed button...
 
global pNewItem, gvarea

on menuPick pNewItem, pOldItem
    
  switch pNewItem
  case "Setup"

    put 1 into gvarea
    disable group gScroll
    show button bBubbleChooseLT
    wait 2 seconds with messages
    hide button bBubbleChooseLT
    break

  case "Track"

    put 2 into gvarea
    disable group gScroll
    enable button bSearch
    show button bBubbleChooseLO
    wait 2 seconds with messages
    hide button bBubbleChooseLO
    break

  case "Report"

    put 3 into gvarea
    disable group gScroll
    enable button bSearch
    show button bBubbleChooseLO
    wait 2 seconds with messages
    hide button bBubbleChooseLO

  end switch
  
end menuPick

Looks ok to me, however, the buttons on am showing or hiding NEVER APPEAR.
Switching between the index tabs is INCREDIBLY SLOW.

Any thoughts?  Can anyone duplicate this behaviour?

N

-----Original Message-----
From: Dar Scott [mailto:dsc at swcp.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 6:07 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Multithread/Background function execution in Rev?



On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 02:59 PM, nfeasey at utpress.utoronto.ca 
wrote:

> show button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve
> wait 2 seconds
> hide button "myButton" with visual effect dissolve

The two seconds we can do something about.

However, I don't know how to set up things to handle field events 
during a visual effect.

Scott mentioned blendLevel twice and I hinted at it.  Here is how a 
first pass at that might work.  Make a handler to start off the whole 
thing.  It might send the message "blendIn 98" in 20 ms which sets the 
blend level and sends off another "blendIn n" in 20 ms where n is the 
decreased amount, except when it gets down to 0 when it sends off 
"blendOut 2" in two seconds.  The blendOut n is increases the blend to 
100 where it stops sending messages to itself.  Fiddle with the blend 
steps and the delays.

This has the requirement that you make an image.

If you want the same timing on all platforms, then set the new blend 
level not by parameter, buy by the time since the start handler ran 
(save away the ms or the long seconds).  In general, this is the better 
approach because it adapts to slower computers and other things going 
on.

If you find creating an image to be a problem, you might try putting an 
image in front of the help field that has the color or pattern of the 
background and fade it out and in (backwards from above).  This will 
work if the help is computed or comes from a list.  Or you might decide 
that flying in and out is just fine.

If the user can switch cards, then you may want a way to abort the 
process (see cancel).  If you don't bother, then make sure the handler 
refers to all objects by long ID or relative to 'me'.

You want to make sure the messages don't block mouse and key events, so 
put your send at the end of your repeated handler.  (If you need exact 
timing or compute delays, not likely here, then there are exceptions.)  
Sent messages and built-in callback messages are handled before mouse 
and key events it seems, so it is possible to overload things if you 
don't put good delays in sending messages.

Again, I apologize for not noticing the visual effect need and 
responding as though this was simply send off a message to hide the 
button in two seconds.

Wouldn't it be cool if all controls had blendLevel?

Dar Scott




_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From dan at shafermedia.com  Wed Jul 30 12:04:01 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed Jul 30 12:04:01 2003
Subject: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
In-Reply-To: <200307301340.JAA09839@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <AC1A8E60-C2AE-11D7-BE5A-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 06:40 AM, Donald Watson wrote:

> IMO, posting information about the "new license" categories for new
> users prior to informing current customers of their change in status
> and pricing is inexcusable.
>
Might I suggest this wording was a bit of an over-reaction? Doing what 
Revoultion did was unwise and perhaps even thoughtless, but 
inexcusable? I hope I never fall under a judgment this harsh and 
unforgiving. I'm sure I've done a dozen things this morning that were 
closer to inexcusable than this oversight.

Excuse me while I go back to work. :-)



From steve at nexpath.com  Wed Jul 30 12:34:01 2003
From: steve at nexpath.com (Steve Gehlbach)
Date: Wed Jul 30 12:34:01 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bb4d9e1d30aa@[10.1.22.201]>
References: <897C8504-C2A7-11D7-BEFD-003065AD94A4@mac.com> <a05210602bb4d9e1d30aa@[10.1.22.201]>
Message-ID: <3F2801C5.5000307@nexpath.com>

Keith Martin wrote:

>>> I can't seem to find a command to bring a window (stack or sub-stack) 
>>> to the front, or to give it the property "always on top", if that 
>>> exits (non-modal).  Is there a methodology to do this in Revolution?
> 
> 
>> go to stack "name of stack" brings the window to the top
>> also making it a palette will keep it on top until you leave the 
>> application
> 
> 
> Interesting. Is it possible to make a window a system-wide floater? 
> Something that remains visible *and* stays on top even when other apps 
> are being used?
> 

Good point, I tried these commands, and indeed they only work local to 
the application.  If other apps are in front, the "go to stack <name> " 
does not work, other apps remain on top.

So I will re-state the question:

Is there a command to bring a window to the front (of all other apps 
running at the same time), or make a window "always on top" of all other 
apps?

-Steve






From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Jul 30 12:41:01 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Jul 30 12:41:01 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bb4d9e1d30aa@[10.1.22.201]>
Message-ID: <007c01c356c0$ba3941d0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

For Windows, Shao Sean wrote a DLL to do it:

   http://dark.unitz.ca/~shaosean/development/index.html#libSMTP

I don't know about how to do it for Mac...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Keith Martin
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:13 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Bring a window to front
> 
> 
> >>I can't seem to find a command to bring a window (stack or
> >>sub-stack) to the front, or to give it the property "always on 
> >>top", if that exits (non-modal).  Is there a methodology to do this 
> >>in Revolution?
> 
> >go to stack "name of stack" brings the window to the top
> >also making it a palette will keep it on top until you leave the 
> >application
> 
> Interesting. Is it possible to make a window a system-wide floater? 
> Something that remains visible *and* stays on top even when other 
> apps are being used?
> 
> k
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 




From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 12:43:00 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Wed Jul 30 12:43:00 2003
Subject: How do I make an external ?
Message-ID: <001801c356c1$17f5fde0$91221e3e@Jez2>

I want to make an external for Revolution to access a few of the
functions provided in User32.dll. I do have experience of visual C
programming. I found a directory "External SDK" in my old 1.1.1
Revolution directory, but nothing under 2.0, and I don't understand
what's in there anyway. Are there any guidelines anywhere ?




From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 12:44:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 12:44:01 2003
Subject: simple about pattern matching
Message-ID: <6C02080E-C2B4-11D7-9BED-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

I'm sure this is an elementary one, but I've skimmed through all my 
CLIPS docs & still am confused. A "See p.xxx of the Reference Manual" 
would be great...

This rule checks for duplicate spaces. (does not check for duplicate 
facts- these spaces may differ in other slots)

(defrule warn-duplicate-space
   (calc-space (scenario ?scenario)
	      (section ?section)
	      (subsection ?subsection)
	      (space-name ?name)
	      (space-label ?label))
   (calc-space (scenario ?scenario)
	      (section ?section)
	      (subsection ?subsection)
	      (space-name ?name)
	      (space-label ?label))
   =>
   (printout wtrace "*** duplicate calc-space " ?subsection "/" ?name)
)

FIRE   33 warn-duplicate-space: f-159,f-159
*** duplicate calc-space objects-storage/pallets-small

I get trace output showing that the same fact address is matching two 
different CEs in the LHS.  I thought that was impossible, but it's 
apparently not. OK why did I think that? Actually I know you can't 
answer that. If I rewrite the rule to text like this, then it works as 
I expected. Any better way to match this?

(defrule warn-duplicate-space
   ?f1 <- (calc-space (scenario ?scenario)
		     (section ?section)
		     (subsection ?subsection)
		     (space-name ?name)
		     (space-label ?label))
   ?f2 <- (calc-space (scenario ?scenario)
		     (section ?section)
		     (subsection ?subsection)
		     (space-name ?name)
		     (space-label ?label))
   (test (neq ?f1 ?f2))
   =>
   (printout wtrace "*** duplicate calc-space " ?subsection "/" ?name)
)

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From cm_sheffield at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 12:44:37 2003
From: cm_sheffield at yahoo.com (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Wed Jul 30 12:44:37 2003
Subject: links in htmlText
Message-ID: <20030730173716.76822.qmail@web20414.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm having a problem with the link textStyle in a
block of htmlText.  I've got several words in a field
that have the textStyle set to link.  The words appear
underlined as they should, but they do not appear with
the correct linkColor.  The link colors of my stack
are set to empty, so my links should just use the
default colors, but this is not happening.  They just
appear as black, underlined text.  Can anyone think of
a reason for this?  I suppose I could set the colors
of the words myself, but I'd rather not have to do a
lot of extra coding.

Thanks,
Chris



=====
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
www.readnaturally.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul 30 12:46:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul 30 12:46:01 2003
Subject: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
In-Reply-To: <AC1A8E60-C2AE-11D7-BE5A-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB4D50B7.319F9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 06:40 AM, Donald Watson wrote:
> 
>> IMO, posting information about the "new license" categories for new
>> users prior to informing current customers of their change in status
>> and pricing is inexcusable.
>> 
> Might I suggest this wording was a bit of an over-reaction? Doing what
> Revoultion did was unwise and perhaps even thoughtless, but
> inexcusable? I hope I never fall under a judgment this harsh and
> unforgiving. I'm sure I've done a dozen things this morning that were
> closer to inexcusable than this oversight.

I would go just a step further: I would call it merely suboptimal.  ;)

Given the many details no doubt involved in the MetaCard acquisition and the
MacWorld trip right on its heels, these sorts of suboptimal things seem
understandable.  Since the focus of any conference is getting new customers,
it seems reasonable that would be their priority at the time.

To RunRev's credit they did post a note here before MacWorld requesting
patience and letting us know they'd resolve upgrade questions when they got
back.

In practical terms, the only people even potentially affected materially was
the small subset of licensees whos expiration date fell between the 2.0.2
announcement and now, a span of two weeks out of 52.

Patience, Grasshopper....

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Jul 30 12:53:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Jul 30 12:53:01 2003
Subject: links in htmlText
In-Reply-To: <20030730173716.76822.qmail@web20414.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB4D52A5.81DF%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Chris Sheffield"  wrote:

> I'm having a problem with the link textStyle in a
> block of htmlText.  I've got several words in a field
> that have the textStyle set to link.  The words appear
> underlined as they should, but they do not appear with
> the correct linkColor.  The link colors of my stack
> are set to empty, so my links should just use the
> default colors, but this is not happening.  They just
> appear as black, underlined text.  Can anyone think of
> a reason for this?  I suppose I could set the colors
> of the words myself, but I'd rather not have to do a
> lot of extra coding.

Apply a linkColor to your stack and see if that fixes the problem.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Wed Jul 30 13:00:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Wed Jul 30 13:00:01 2003
Subject: Fix to distribution builder available
In-Reply-To: <BB4D6FF8.155D8%heather@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <83305F1F-C2B6-11D7-B1D2-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

Hi Heather,
On Mittwoch, Jul 30, 2003, at 13:52 Europe/Vienna, Heather Williams  
wrote:
>
> We have uploaded a fix to the 2.0.2 distribution builder, here:
>
> http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/distributions/2.0/updates/

Unffortunatly this does not work too:
here are some screen shots what happens if you build a distribution on  
OSX:

*all builds are open to see the difference, all OSX files are in one  
package, the other builds are correct in the data fiolder. (So it  
*CAN?T* be my fault!!)
http://internettrainer.com/9files/revolution/xbuildscreenshots/build.png

*content of the OSX file (opened package)
http://internettrainer.com/9files/revolution/xbuildscreenshots/ 
content_standaloneX.png

*get infos to see the wrong (Version) copyright and the missing icons  
(all defined in the distribution builder but still wrong)
http://internettrainer.com/9files/revolution/xbuildscreenshots/ 
get_info.png


Heather!
pleeeease tell me what should I do now?
I m wainting so long now, I would like to renewal but I need at least  
one release ofd rev which does a correct distribution build - only  
one...!

Does anybody have an idea what I can do..?
Thanks in advance...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Jul 30 13:12:01 2003
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Wed Jul 30 13:12:01 2003
Subject: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
In-Reply-To: <BB4D50B7.319F9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BB4D50B7.319F9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f00bb4db8af7733@[10.0.1.2]>

>I would go just a step further: I would call it merely suboptimal.  ;)

Agree.

>In practical terms, the only people even potentially affected materially was
>the small subset of licensees whos expiration date fell between the 2.0.2
>announcement and now, a span of two weeks out of 52.

I am a bit confused about this statement:
"This is a free upgrade to all existing customers. If you have an old style
license, you should have received a new unlock code by email. If you have
not yet received this or are having any problems with it please let us know
off list."

My key expires on Nov 30, 2003. I have not received a new unlock code
and have tried my old code on the 2.0.2 and now we have notice of unlock
problems.

Have others with a valid license received some new unlock code?

In the dark here...

sims


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 13:21:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 13:21:00 2003
Subject: simple about pattern matching
In-Reply-To: <6C02080E-C2B4-11D7-9BED-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <91BDD03D-C2B9-11D7-9BED-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 11:36  AM, Alex Rice wrote:

> I'm sure this is an elementary one, but I've skimmed through all my 
> CLIPS docs & still am confused. A "See p.xxx of the Reference Manual" 
> would be great...
>
Wrong mailing list. Sorry!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 13:31:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 13:31:01 2003
Subject: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
In-Reply-To: <a05200f00bb4db8af7733@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <075E5693-C2BB-11D7-9BED-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 12:07  PM, sims wrote:
> My key expires on Nov 30, 2003. I have not received a new unlock code
> and have tried my old code on the 2.0.2 and now we have notice of 
> unlock
> problems.
>
> Have others with a valid license received some new unlock code?
>
> In the dark here...

Yep I got mine. I'll append the message sans the unlock code. I don't 
see what the fuss is about. The message says exactly what is going on. 
Maybe the poster who thinks it is "inexcusable" has not yet got their 
message from RR?

--

Dear xxxx xxxx,

   Re: New code for your purchase of Revolution Pro -- Small Business 
Edition

Thanks for purchasing Revolution. Due to the changes in the licensing
system we have modified your license as follows:


Student/Teacher, K12, Standard, SBE -> Commercial Studio (specially 
modified
so you can develop and build on all platforms)

All pro licenses, All other educational licenses -> Commercial 
Enterprise


As you purchased Revolution before the new licensing system was
introduced, the license changes are necessary so that you do not get the
exit splash screen when building standalones. However, it should be 
noted
that you are still bound by your previous license agreement.

Please find below your new unlocking key for Revolution 2.0.2. Enter 
this
key when prompted after launching Revolution:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

If you have any questions about your code, please do not hesitate to
contact us through info at runrev.com. An email will be sent out as soon as
the links on our website have been updated for 2.0.2. We ask for your
patience as we move over to the new licensing system.

Thank You.

Best wishes,

The Runtime Revolution Team

This email Powered by Revolution? CGI - We eat our own Haggis




Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 13:47:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 13:47:01 2003
Subject: How do I make an external ?
In-Reply-To: <001801c356c1$17f5fde0$91221e3e@Jez2>
Message-ID: <3EAC0344-C2BD-11D7-9BED-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 11:36  AM, Jez wrote:

> I want to make an external for Revolution to access a few of the
> functions provided in User32.dll. I do have experience of visual C
> programming. I found a directory "External SDK" in my old 1.1.1
> Revolution directory, but nothing under 2.0, and I don't understand
> what's in there anyway. Are there any guidelines anywhere ?

Hi, I am not an expert at writing externals, but I have been in the 
same boat as you recently. Information on writing externals is very 
scarce. Here are some suggestions:

1) The "External SDK": look at external.c mainly. This is your primary 
reference. It's not commented very well so you gotta guess what's going 
on. Look at the associated .rev stack. It has two apps in the external: 
Game of Life, and Image Compositing. Why it's not included with RR 2.0 
I would like to know.

2) Post questions to this mailing list. A few people here have been 
coding externals in C for years.

3) _Hypertalk Script Language Guide_ by Apple Computer, in Appendix A, 
has the closest thing I can find to a documentation of the externals 
API. The calling interfaces are changed, but the function names are the 
same. Unfortunately there are more Pascal examples than C examples.

4) RR said a tutorial on writing externals is in the works. Right RR 
:-)?

5) So web searches for XFCN and XCMD. XFCN stands for "external 
function", a transcript function handler that's implemented in native 
code. XCMD is "external command" or a transcript command handler that's 
implemented in native code.

Hope this helps,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From mail at richard-hillen.de  Wed Jul 30 13:47:37 2003
From: mail at richard-hillen.de (R. Hillen)
Date: Wed Jul 30 13:47:37 2003
Subject: Missing Color in StandAlones
In-Reply-To: <200307301341.JAA09893@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4348E20D-C2BD-11D7-8CD4-000393854988@richard-hillen.de>

Hello list,

On MacOS X 10.2.6 with Rev 2.0.2 just after downloading I didn?t succed 
in building a colored standAlone.
This are my steps:

1. step
Start Revolution
File / New Mainstack
Object/Stack Inspector/Colors & Patterns/Background-Color = Blue/ Close 
Inspector Window
-> stack Color becomes blue
File/Save as "Test"
Quit revolution

2. Teststep
(double-Click on test.rev shows a blue stack in the 
developer-environment)

3. Build Distribution
Start Revolution
File/Build Distribution...
Standalone Name "test"
Build for Max OS X

Next
Files to include: "test.rev"
true: automatically set stackFiles on mainstack
false: other options

Next
Inclusions: Ask Dialog, Answer Dialog, Cursors;
Image and pattern libraries: standard Icons
other options false

Make inclusions substacks of main stack true

Build distibution

Quit revolution


4. Test Application
DoubeClicking on standalone "test" shows white stack.


My Question: Why?

Thanx in advance

Richard Hillen.



From steve at nexpath.com  Wed Jul 30 14:01:01 2003
From: steve at nexpath.com (Steve Gehlbach)
Date: Wed Jul 30 14:01:01 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <007c01c356c0$ba3941d0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <007c01c356c0$ba3941d0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <3F281636.5080202@nexpath.com>

Ken Ray wrote:

> For Windows, Shao Sean wrote a DLL to do it:
> 
>    http://dark.unitz.ca/~shaosean/development/index.html#libSMTP
> 
> I don't know about how to do it for Mac...

Thanks for the idea, maybe I should take it up with Shao, but it doesn't 
seem to work.  I tried to re-compile it, to see it that would help, but 
it is missing a file "XCmdGlue.h" which seems to be in some kind of SDK 
that is (apparently) not in the 2.x distribution.

I wonder if this only works for the 1.xx versions.  The SDK seems to be 
only included in the 1.x versions; anyone know if the same SDK works for 
2.x?

-Steve



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 14:03:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 14:03:00 2003
Subject: Missing Color in StandAlones
In-Reply-To: <4348E20D-C2BD-11D7-8CD4-000393854988@richard-hillen.de>
Message-ID: <4B31D3D2-C2BF-11D7-9BED-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 12:40  PM, R. Hillen wrote:
>
> My Question: Why?

Richard- maybe it's a RunRev bug. Please add your test recipe to bug 
#176 in bugzilla. RR developers: maybe my bug #190 should actually be 
combined with #176. Not sure.

Is this problem also why field selection hilight colors are incorrect 
up in OS X standalones? It's pretty frustrating seeing different colors 
in the standalone, I know.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From ericpeden at homemail.com  Wed Jul 30 14:10:00 2003
From: ericpeden at homemail.com (Eric Peden)
Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:00 2003
Subject: determining network connection status
Message-ID: <20030730190517.GA11016@cauldron.local.>

I'm building a stack that will ultimately submit data supplied by the
user to a server, but that allows them to enter their data offline. If
the user is offline when they try to submit this data, I would like to
display an error message reminding them to connect first before
submitting their information. What's the best way to determine if they
have a working network connection?

Currently, I simply "get URL" a page on our web server and, if the result
is empty, show the "not connected" message. However, this has a couple
of problems:

1) There's often a significant timeout delay when the network is
   unavailable, sometimes 10 or 15 seconds. I'd like to let the user know
   more quickly what the problem is.

2) I can't distinguish between a "no network" error and a timeout error.
   Ideally, I'd let the user know the problem is not their fault if I
   get a timeout, but since I'm also relying on a timeout to tell me if
   the network is not available, I can't provide a specific error
   message.

I could fix (1) by opening a socket with a shorter timeout value, but
that still doesn't address (2). Any ideas?

-- 
eric


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 14:13:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 14:13:00 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <3F281636.5080202@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <DCC18B6C-C2C0-11D7-9BED-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 01:02  PM, Steve Gehlbach wrote:

>
> I wonder if this only works for the 1.xx versions.  The SDK seems to 
> be only included in the 1.x versions; anyone know if the same SDK 
> works for 2.x?

I can confirm the Externals SDK works 100% OK with 2.0.x. Just grab it 
from the 1.1.1 distro.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From hyperdon at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 30 14:34:00 2003
From: hyperdon at earthlink.net (Donald Watson)
Date: Wed Jul 30 14:34:00 2003
Subject: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
In-Reply-To: <AC1A8E60-C2AE-11D7-BE5A-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <A4CB6038-C2C4-11D7-A66A-000393D28442@earthlink.net>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 12:55 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

>
> On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 06:40 AM, Donald Watson wrote:
>
>> IMO, posting information about the "new license" categories for new
>> users prior to informing current customers of their change in status
>> and pricing is inexcusable.
>>
> Might I suggest this wording was a bit of an over-reaction? Doing what 
> Revolution did was unwise and perhaps even thoughtless, but 
> inexcusable? I hope I never fall under a judgment this harsh and 
> unforgiving. I'm sure I've done a dozen things this morning that were 
> closer to inexcusable than this oversight.
>
> Excuse me while I go back to work. :-)

Dan, the key phrase here was, "IMO", which is based on my relationship 
so far with RR, past experiences with software venders, the phases of 
the moon and other unnamed ingredients. Your opinion, of course, is 
based on yours. It is conceivable then, that we can have separate and 
differing opinions. IMO this is not a mere oversight. Although I 
recognize the need to lure new business to RR, keeping current 
customers happy ( within reason ), and aware of how these changes will 
affect them should be of primary concern.

Regards,
Don



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 14:38:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 14:38:00 2003
Subject: determining network connection status
In-Reply-To: <20030730190517.GA11016@cauldron.local.>
Message-ID: <5780A56A-C2C4-11D7-9BED-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 01:05  PM, Eric Peden wrote:
> I could fix (1) by opening a socket with a shorter timeout value, but
> that still doesn't address (2). Any ideas?

As a former tech support guy, I know some modem users get mad when 
their computer auto-dials to connect to the Internet. It would be 
better to check if networking is configured and enabled, without 
actually making a connection. Probably it is a platform specific C 
function call :-( Sorry to sound so discouraging.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul 30 14:57:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul 30 14:57:00 2003
Subject: determining network connection status
In-Reply-To: <20030730190517.GA11016@cauldron.local.>
Message-ID: <FF5B5A04-C2C6-11D7-A082-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 01:05 PM, Eric Peden wrote:

> Currently, I simply "get URL" a page on our web server and, if the 
> result
> is empty, show the "not connected" message. However, this has a couple
> of problems:
>
> 1) There's often a significant timeout delay when the network is
>   unavailable, sometimes 10 or 15 seconds. I'd like to let the user 
> know
>   more quickly what the problem is.

This can be 75 seconds on OS X and 21 seconds on W2K and XP.

>
> 2) I can't distinguish between a "no network" error and a timeout 
> error.
>   Ideally, I'd let the user know the problem is not their fault if I
>   get a timeout, but since I'm also relying on a timeout to tell me if
>   the network is not available, I can't provide a specific error
>   message.
>
> I could fix (1) by opening a socket with a shorter timeout value, but
> that still doesn't address (2). Any ideas?

Your idea of simply opening a socket rather than 'get URL' is a better 
way to go.  The socketTimeout does not apply to open, so you will have 
to chase after it with a send to cancel the open (close) and declare a 
timeout.  If you are using a blocking style (not using 'with message') 
there still might be a way.

For #2, you can provide a generic error message "Cannot connect to 
Eric's server!"  I know this doesn't address your desire, but it might 
be the only way to go.  Another approach is to add a step that (among 
other things, perhaps) instructs the user to make sure the computer is 
connected to the Internet.  That can avoid any surprise dialing 
problems.

Part of the problem is what "no network" means.  Does it mean the user 
did not dial up the ISP?  Does it mean the cable to the Ethernet card 
is not connected?  Would it apply to the case where the user is 
connected to the local LAN but the gateway to the Internet is down?  
Does it mean that TCP/IP is not even set up on the computer?  To detect 
that a computer can reach the internet whether or not the LAN is up 
requires trying to.

You can check result() on the open.  That can catch a lot of local 
problems.

If you mean access to the Internet, then one method is to open a tcp 
link to a reliable related Internet computer by IP address and then 
close that.  If there is a chance the client is behind a firewall, it 
may need to be port 80.  Maybe the user can set up an address or name 
that can be used for checking this.

You might explore a couple ideas related to DNS.  If DNSServers() 
returns empty, then the computer is not connected to the Internet, but 
if not then you don't know.  You might try a query with 
hostNameToAddress(), but that might be cached, either on the local 
computer on on a LAN DNS server.  _If_ DNSServers() returns a public IP 
Address, you can try to open DNS with tcp, however, some locations 
limit DNS to udp.  You might opening to _your_ DNS sever.

You might try ping with shell().

If your server computer is up, but the service is down, then the open 
will be refused.  If you use 'with message' you will get a socketError 
callback on Windows and a socketClose on OS X.  I think you also get it 
without the 'with message'; I so rarely use blocking I/O, I don't 
remember.  You can use that as a distinction.  Windows will delay this 
for 9 seconds.

Dar Scott



From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Wed Jul 30 15:08:00 2003
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Wed Jul 30 15:08:00 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <DCC18B6C-C2C0-11D7-9BED-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <A8D33B3E-C2C8-11D7-BEFD-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>

Externals SDK from 1.1.1 works with 2.0.x, except on OS X
You can download updated SDK from Metacard's site
http://www.metacard.com/get.html

Thierry Arbellot.


On Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003, at 21:06 Europe/Paris, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 01:02  PM, Steve Gehlbach wrote:
>
>>
>> I wonder if this only works for the 1.xx versions.  The SDK seems to 
>> be only included in the 1.x versions; anyone know if the same SDK 
>> works for 2.x?
>
> I can confirm the Externals SDK works 100% OK with 2.0.x. Just grab it 
> from the 1.1.1 distro.
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> http://ARCplanning.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Wed Jul 30 15:18:00 2003
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Wed Jul 30 15:18:00 2003
Subject: Missing Color in StandAlones
In-Reply-To: <4348E20D-C2BD-11D7-8CD4-000393854988@richard-hillen.de>
Message-ID: <FA896C61-C2C9-11D7-BEFD-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>

Hi Richard,

When you build the distribution, have you uncheck the check box "apply 
default Colors" (step 3 of 3, tab Stacks) ?

Thierry Arbellot.

On Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003, at 20:40 Europe/Paris, R. Hillen wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> On MacOS X 10.2.6 with Rev 2.0.2 just after downloading I didn?t 
> succed in building a colored standAlone.
> This are my steps:
>
> 1. step
> Start Revolution
> File / New Mainstack
> Object/Stack Inspector/Colors & Patterns/Background-Color = Blue/ 
> Close Inspector Window
> -> stack Color becomes blue
> File/Save as "Test"
> Quit revolution
>
> 2. Teststep
> (double-Click on test.rev shows a blue stack in the 
> developer-environment)
>
> 3. Build Distribution
> Start Revolution
> File/Build Distribution...
> Standalone Name "test"
> Build for Max OS X
>
> Next
> Files to include: "test.rev"
> true: automatically set stackFiles on mainstack
> false: other options
>
> Next
> Inclusions: Ask Dialog, Answer Dialog, Cursors;
> Image and pattern libraries: standard Icons
> other options false
>
> Make inclusions substacks of main stack true
>
> Build distibution
>
> Quit revolution
>
>
> 4. Test Application
> DoubeClicking on standalone "test" shows white stack.
>
>
> My Question: Why?
>
> Thanx in advance
>
> Richard Hillen.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From hyperdon at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 30 15:57:00 2003
From: hyperdon at earthlink.net (Donald Watson)
Date: Wed Jul 30 15:57:00 2003
Subject: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
In-Reply-To: <BB4D50B7.319F9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <3440F446-C2D0-11D7-8FDF-000393D28442@earthlink.net>

From: Donald Watson <hyperdon at earthlink.net>
Date: Wed Jul 30, 2003  4:50:30 PM America/Detroit
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 01:38 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>
> I would go just a step further: I would call it merely suboptimal.  ;)

perhaps if we get a few more responses on this it can be downgraded to 
*user error*


>
> Given the many details no doubt involved in the MetaCard acquisition 
> and the
> MacWorld trip right on its heels, these sorts of suboptimal things seem
> understandable.  Since the focus of any conference is getting new 
> customers,
> it seems reasonable that would be their priority at the time.

What in the world does this have to do with anything? The point I am 
trying to make is that posting the information concerning 
reclassification of licenses and renewal info for current customers 
*should* have been done at the same time. In fact, I expected this list 
to get the news first.
>
> To RunRev's credit they did post a note here before MacWorld requesting
> patience and letting us know they'd resolve upgrade questions when 
> they got
> back.

Posting a request for patience and disseminating the information to the 
current users first is not the same.

> In practical terms, the only people even potentially affected 
> materially was
> the small subset of licensees whos expiration date fell between the 
> 2.0.2
> announcement and now, a span of two weeks out of 52.
>
> Patience, Grasshopper....

Richard, IMO rev users in general have shown a great deal of patience 
with both the company and the products. We have been very patient about 
bugs that won't go away, very late upgrades, builder windows with no 
buttons, no published manuals, and other failures to numerous to still 
be in my collective consciousness.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 15:59:00 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Wed Jul 30 15:59:00 2003
Subject: Player Filename too long
Message-ID: <000001c356dc$5fab6dd0$91221e3e@Jez2>

If a player's filename (including the path) is too long, it simply
doesn't play at all. When will this be fixed ? I was hoping it would be
fixed in 2.0 but no ...

Failing a fix, is there a way to translate a long path ("C:\Program
Files\etc") into a 16-bit short path ("C:\Progra~1\etc"), which may help
(a bit).




From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Wed Jul 30 16:02:01 2003
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham)
Date: Wed Jul 30 16:02:01 2003
Subject: How do I internalize an image source?
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030730092715.00cf8918@pop.wanadoo.fr>

Thanks to Chipp and Scott for replying. I had written:

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:50:08 -0500, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:


>put url("bin & "C:/test.png") into image "myinternalimage"

Chipp, thanks but that requires me to put the new images in external files, 
which is what I'm trying to avoid (just one more thing for the user to get 
confused by).

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:02:25 -0700, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

>I'm not quite following what you're trying to avoid here: do you just want
>to prevent having two image objects that include the same data?  If so, you
>can use a button to reference images by setting the icon of the button to
>the id of whatever image you want.  Disable all the visual properties of the
>button (threeD, autoHilite, border, etc) and you have an object that can act
>as a viewer for internal images.

Thanks, I didn't think of that - I kind of want to do (repeatedly)

   set the picture of image "mySpecialImage" to the picture of image 
"myPlaceholderImage"

So that "mySpecialImage" can contain all the custom props and stuff which I 
want it to have but change its appearance when the script requires it to do 
so - without invoking external files.

I now see that setting the icon does the job, unless there are some things 
you can't do with buttons and icons that you can do with images (I'll try 
it out).

Thanks again

Graham



---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  




From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Jul 30 16:21:00 2003
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed Jul 30 16:21:00 2003
Subject: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
In-Reply-To: <3440F446-C2D0-11D7-8FDF-000393D28442@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0307301406120.27558-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

OTOH, the online documentation beats that which comes with Director, which
came out with a Mac OSX version *considerably later* than did RR; other
bugs *did* get fixed; and probably a good deal many of us are getting
another year and a major upgrade when technically we didn't pay for one.

As one who has in the past has had concerns (well, actually, loud
complaints about pricing), I have been pleasantly surprised with the
responsiveness of the company.

I know of several Mac Director users in my master's program who are forced
to use Director and had to pay *twice* within a single semester's period
just to get the OSX version, and even then what they ended up with was a
doubly expensive, buggy piece of crap from a major software developer
and that, for nearly $700 *academic pricing* will only compile for a
single platform.

Judy


On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Donald Watson wrote:

> Richard, IMO rev users in general have shown a great deal of patience
> with both the company and the products. We have been very patient about
> bugs that won't go away, very late upgrades, builder windows with no
> buttons, no published manuals, and other failures to numerous to still
> be in my collective consciousness.



From hyperdon at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 30 16:25:01 2003
From: hyperdon at earthlink.net (Donald Watson)
Date: Wed Jul 30 16:25:01 2003
Subject: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
In-Reply-To: <075E5693-C2BB-11D7-9BED-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <32C71DD1-C2D4-11D7-8FDF-000393D28442@earthlink.net>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 02:24 PM, Alex Rice wrote:
>
> Yep I got mine. I'll append the message sans the unlock code. I don't 
> see what the fuss is about. The message says exactly what is going on. 
> Maybe the poster who thinks it is "inexcusable" has not yet got their 
> message from RR?
>

Alex,

This was not the point of my original posting. By the way the poster 
who thinks it is inexcusable ( namely me ) has a name. ; ) In fact I 
had not yet received my unlock code. The point I was trying to make was 
that the information concerning what old license category would be 
replaced with which new category and at what price has not been 
forthcoming. Or has everyone else received that information by divine 
absorption as well.

If Rev were the only tool required to do my job I guess I wouldn't give 
a flip. Truth is I need to stay within a fixed budget in order to be 
able to upgrade all the tools I require as well as perhaps new 
hardware. I don't appreciate being kept in the dark on this matter, 
makes for budget problems that I don't need.


Regards,
Don



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 16:40:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 16:40:01 2003
Subject: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
In-Reply-To: <32C71DD1-C2D4-11D7-8FDF-000393D28442@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5E22EE3E-C2D5-11D7-9BED-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 03:24  PM, Donald Watson wrote:
>
> Alex,
>
> This was not the point of my original posting. By the way the poster 
> who thinks it is inexcusable ( namely me ) has a name. ; ) In fact I 
> had not yet received my unlock code. The point I was trying to make 
> was that the information concerning what old license category would be 
> replaced with which new category and at what price has not been 
> forthcoming. Or has everyone else received that information by divine 
> absorption as well.
>
> If Rev were the only tool required to do my job I guess I wouldn't 
> give a flip. Truth is I need to stay within a fixed budget in order to 
> be able to upgrade all the tools I require as well as perhaps new 
> hardware. I don't appreciate being kept in the dark on this matter, 
> makes for budget problems that I don't need.

Donald I am sorry you have grievances and that's unfortunate about the 
budget crunch.

My feeling is yeah they kind of screwed up communications-wise. But 
during that initial period of time after the new licensing 
announcement, Geoff Canyon was pretty active on this list, kind of 
fielding questions and assuaging peoples concerns. So I don't think 
anybody got it by "divine absorption" :-)

re: Patience. This is kind of deja vu for me because I was saying the 
very same thing as you, but on the realbasic mailing list, 18 months 
ago. I totally quit using realbasic. Now I'm here and I'm just being 
patient and I am really optimistic about RR. Still glad I switched. 
However, the grass is always greener...

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From jiml at netrin.com  Wed Jul 30 17:14:00 2003
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Wed Jul 30 17:14:00 2003
Subject: determining network connection status
In-Reply-To: <200307302041.QAA29926@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBICMMKLOIPMPOLALACEJFFFAA.jiml@netrin.com>

<If the user is offline when they try to submit this data, I would like to
display an error message reminding them to connect first before
submitting their information.>

<some modem users get mad when
their computer auto-dials to connect to the Internet. >

You could just ask them if they're currently connected to the Internet. Or
notify them that when they click that Submit button an Internet connection
will be attempted (maybe in a tooltip for the button.)

jimL
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/03



From keith at vortex.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 17:28:00 2003
From: keith at vortex.co.uk (Keith Martin)
Date: Wed Jul 30 17:28:00 2003
Subject: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0307301406120.27558-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0307301406120.27558-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <a05210601bb4def05a750@[10.0.0.4]>

Judy Perry said:

>I know of several Mac Director users in my master's program who are forced
>to use Director and had to pay *twice* within a single semester's period
>just to get the OSX version, and even then what they ended up with was a
>doubly expensive, buggy piece of crap

Personally, I think you should have written those last words in 
capital latters. I've heard stuff about Director MX's bugs - directly 
from a seriously hardcore commercial user, mind you - that frankly 
scares me.

>  from a major software developer
>and that, for nearly $700 *academic pricing* will only compile for a
>single platform.

Yep, they're still milking that one. Or, rather, squeezing blood from 
that stone!

k


From steve at nexpath.com  Wed Jul 30 17:47:00 2003
From: steve at nexpath.com (Steve Gehlbach)
Date: Wed Jul 30 17:47:00 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <A8D33B3E-C2C8-11D7-BEFD-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>
References: <A8D33B3E-C2C8-11D7-BEFD-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3F284B2C.4000705@nexpath.com>

Thierry Arbellot wrote:
> Externals SDK from 1.1.1 works with 2.0.x, except on OS X
> You can download updated SDK from Metacard's site
> http://www.metacard.com/get.html
> 

Thanks, I got it, rebuilt the alwaysontop dll under visual c++ 6.0 on 
win2k, and it doesn't work either (runs fine, just doesn't keep the 
window on top).  I checked the win call, seems correct.  Got to get on 
to other things, but I wonder if this isn't a windows bug or doc 
problem.  I'm going to do some experimenting when I have time...

Thanks for all the help,

Steve



From mfitz53 at comcast.net  Wed Jul 30 18:53:00 2003
From: mfitz53 at comcast.net (Michael)
Date: Wed Jul 30 18:53:00 2003
Subject: randomnumber / randomseed
Message-ID: <399e50539a3660.39a3660399e505@icomcast.net>

I use this.
put random 1000000 into x
put random x into whatever

It seems to work.

mike fitz



----- Original Message -----
From: Bj?rnke von Gierke <bvg at mac.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 10:48 pm
Subject: randomnumber / randomseed

> I am experimenting with the random functions, and I would like to 
> know 
> what exactly the largest number is that the randomseed still 
> accepts, 
> as I found out that it generates the same numbers when given too 
> large 
> numbers (ca. 10 digits). Also is there such a limit on the 
> randomnumber 
> ?
> 
> Does anyone know how predictable the random function is? That 
> would 
> interest me immensely. Also what kind of algorithm does it use? I 
> am 
> totally in the unknown on these things...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 



From mfitz53 at comcast.net  Wed Jul 30 18:53:46 2003
From: mfitz53 at comcast.net (Michael)
Date: Wed Jul 30 18:53:46 2003
Subject: randomnumber / randomseed
Message-ID: <397830f39776f8.39776f8397830f@icomcast.net>

Oops.
put random 100000 into x
set the randomseed to x
get random(whatever)



----- Original Message -----
From: Bj?rnke von Gierke <bvg at mac.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 10:48 pm
Subject: randomnumber / randomseed

> I am experimenting with the random functions, and I would like to 
> know 
> what exactly the largest number is that the randomseed still 
> accepts, 
> as I found out that it generates the same numbers when given too 
> large 
> numbers (ca. 10 digits). Also is there such a limit on the 
> randomnumber 
> ?
> 
> Does anyone know how predictable the random function is? That 
> would 
> interest me immensely. Also what kind of algorithm does it use? I 
> am 
> totally in the unknown on these things...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 



From dan at shafermedia.com  Wed Jul 30 19:28:00 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed Jul 30 19:28:00 2003
Subject: Stack opens manually but scripts think it's corrupted?
Message-ID: <F1B5B6FB-C2EC-11D7-8043-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

I have a stack that I can open from the File menu in RR, or by  
double-clicking it in Mac OS X Finder. No problems. But if I try to  
open it or go to it using the URL keyword, either from a handler or  
from the Message Box, I get the same result every time: an error  
indicating the stack is corrupted.

I'm sure it's not open before I try to open it with the script. Here's  
the syntax of the command I'm  using:

go stack URL "file:/Users/dshafer/Documents/ch5foo.rev"

Any clues?
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- 
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com
Latest Book Release: "HTML Utopia: Designing Without Tables Using CSS"  
(http://www.sitepoint.com/books/css1/)
Watch for my new eBook/Web site/Rev Stack Set, "Revolution Pros" this  
summer



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Jul 30 19:51:00 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Jul 30 19:51:00 2003
Subject: randomnumber / randomseed
In-Reply-To: <397830f39776f8.39776f8397830f@icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <158DD5F6-C2F0-11D7-A082-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 05:43 PM, Michael wrote:

> put random 100000 into x
> set the randomseed to x
> get random(whatever)

Getting some randomness into the randomSeed it a good idea.  Is that  
what this is about?  I don't think this will do it, though.

This script will always product the same result on my Revolution 2.0.1  
on OS X:

on mouseUp
   put empty into field "Report"
   set the randomSeed to 1
   put random(5) & LF after field "Report"
   put random(29) & LF after field "Report"
   set the randomSeed to random(100000)
   put random(9) & LF after field "Report"
   put random(100) & LF after field "Report"
end mouseUp

Fortunately, Revolution does set the seed to a different number each  
time the engine starts up (almost).  I suspect two standalones starting  
at about the same time might start out with the same randomSeed.  It  
looks like seconds plus a birthday code.  It might be more complicated  
and I don't see the pattern.

Here is where Revolution shines.  How to get randomness to put into a  
randomSeed or to update a temporary randomSeed?  I suspect that a cool  
solution exists using front scripts that grab some time bits for mouse  
and key actions.  There are lots of bits available on OS X and a few on  
Windows, but I suspect you may have to get them one at a time on Mac OS  
9 and Linux.

Dar Scott

************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Jul 30 20:54:01 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed Jul 30 20:54:01 2003
Subject: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
In-Reply-To: <a05200f00bb4db8af7733@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <BB4D50B7.319F9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
 <a05200f00bb4db8af7733@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <a05100300bb4e256b85b0@[216.229.107.252]>

>Have others with a valid license received some new unlock code?

Bongu, sims.

Mine was sent 6 hours before availability of the actual update was announced:
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Jul 30 20:58:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Jul 30 20:58:01 2003
Subject: Stack opens manually but scripts think it's corrupted?
In-Reply-To: <F1B5B6FB-C2EC-11D7-8043-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB4DC3E0.31A62%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> go stack URL "file:/Users/dshafer/Documents/ch5foo.rev"
> 
> Any clues?

Use "binfile" instead of "file"

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Jul 30 21:01:02 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed Jul 30 21:01:02 2003
Subject: OT - Rev XML terms--tutorials
In-Reply-To: <68E4581E-C29D-11D7-A8F3-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIAEPFDGAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Mark,

I loaded www.w3schools.com in about 2.5 seconds. I find the site quite
helpful on a number of fronts.

The URL you posted, is indeed a joke. It's just an animated GIF which runs
forever. I don't know how you got there. Please use Plain text in your posts
instead of HTML. It helps for digest modes.

-Chipp


-->On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 07:16 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:


-->check out http://www.w3schools.com for a good *free* intro to XML





From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Jul 30 21:42:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Jul 30 21:42:01 2003
Subject: Changing font/encoding for script editor
In-Reply-To: <007701c35684$8c220f20$0100a8c0@user>
Message-ID: <74C8F860-C2FF-11D7-B2FE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> Anyone know how to change the font and/or decoding for the script
> editor? I have some Japanese comments that I would like to be able to
> read, and to be able to avoid editing partial characters.
>
I don't know about encoding, but the script editor font can be changed 
in the normal Rev preferences.

Sarah



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 21:44:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 21:44:00 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <20030730182658.4D5E.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>
Message-ID: <DF7E4D32-C2FF-11D7-B567-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 03:34  AM, Joel Rees wrote:
> How about using the sandbox pattern from CVS -- each developer has
> his/her own copy of everything he/she wants to look at and changes are
> only registered on commits. If there is a conflict, the management
> system refuses the commit and shows the committer where the conflict is
> so the committer can fix it.

> Figuring out what constitutes a conflict may require somewhat unique
> algorithms, I suppose.

That's the thing about CVS and binary files though. The best CVS could 
tell you is you and this other person both changed binary file X. No 
further information is available.

I second the notion that we need a "diff" tool that works on stacks, 
cards, other objects in the IDE.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 21:46:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 21:46:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOEOFDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <2CF5FBAE-C300-11D7-B567-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 02:58  AM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> Hmmm... now if we could only apply that to the networked world. What  
> about
> using IM (jabber or something) to broadcast changes? If it was done  
> well
> then any field could instantly become a chatroom ;-) A log could be
> maintained for rollback.
>
> Hmmm... I think this is worth some thought ;-)
>

Definitely. Someone should write an external for Rendevous support!  
Then we could make a plugin for the Rev IDE something like this:

"""Hydra makes collaborative editing easy and elegant. Using Mac OS X  
10.2's Rendezvous, Hydra allows multiple users to create and edit a  
document in real time by just clicking the share button and typing  
away. Hydra leverages Apple technologies like Rendezvous, the Core  
Foundation Network API, the Cocoa framework, ATSUI, Quartz, Address  
Book, and Apple Help.  In addition to its rich networking capabilities,  
Hydra does everything you'd expect from an advanced text editor."""

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/developer/2003/07/10/ 
innovators.html

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Jul 30 22:04:00 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Jul 30 22:04:00 2003
Subject: Fix to distribution builder available
In-Reply-To: <83305F1F-C2B6-11D7-B1D2-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <4AA35BCE-C302-11D7-B2FE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Wolfgang,

I had a look at your screen shots and it seemed that you may not have  
gone deep enough into the OS X package contents. Did you check in all  
the sub-folders of the package to see if your sub-stacks where hidden  
further down the hierarchy?

I have only use 2.0.2 to build a single file application, so this is  
only guesswork :-)

Cheers,
Sarah

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 03:58  am, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:

> Hi Heather,
> On Mittwoch, Jul 30, 2003, at 13:52 Europe/Vienna, Heather Williams  
> wrote:
>>
>> We have uploaded a fix to the 2.0.2 distribution builder, here:
>>
>> http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/distributions/2.0/updates/
>
> Unffortunatly this does not work too:
> here are some screen shots what happens if you build a distribution on  
> OSX:
>
> *all builds are open to see the difference, all OSX files are in one  
> package, the other builds are correct in the data fiolder. (So it  
> *CAN?T* be my fault!!)
> http://internettrainer.com/9files/revolution/xbuildscreenshots/ 
> build.png
>
> *content of the OSX file (opened package)
> http://internettrainer.com/9files/revolution/xbuildscreenshots/ 
> content_standaloneX.png
>
> *get infos to see the wrong (Version) copyright and the missing icons  
> (all defined in the distribution builder but still wrong)
> http://internettrainer.com/9files/revolution/xbuildscreenshots/ 
> get_info.png
>
>
> Heather!
> pleeeease tell me what should I do now?
> I m wainting so long now, I would like to renewal but I need at least  
> one release ofd rev which does a correct distribution build - only  
> one...!
>
> Does anybody have an idea what I can do..?
> Thanks in advance...
>
> regards
> Wolfgang M. Bereuter
>
> Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
> INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
> Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
> ..............................
> http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
> ..............................
> Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Jul 30 22:05:01 2003
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Jul 30 22:05:01 2003
Subject: dumping (exporting?) the scripts to text files
In-Reply-To: <20030730165847.4D56.JOEL@alpsgiken.gr.jp>
Message-ID: <978BC65E-C302-11D7-B2FE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> I'm sure it should be doable, because one of the most necessary tools
> when porting a hyperscript stack is to be able to run a multifile 
> global
> search-and-replace, and that works best if I can get the script text
> into files and, say, open them in BBEdit or simply massage them with
> perl.
Have you had a look at the built-in search & replace tool? It allows 
you to do this: search &/or replace text in fields &/or scripts. While 
I can still see the need for a script exporter, the standard tools may 
also be useful.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Jul 30 22:28:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Jul 30 22:28:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <2CF5FBAE-C300-11D7-B567-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEPDDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> > Hmmm... now if we could only apply that to the networked world. What
> > about
> > using IM (jabber or something) to broadcast changes? If it was done
> > well
> > then any field could instantly become a chatroom ;-) A log could be
> > maintained for rollback.
> >
> > Hmmm... I think this is worth some thought ;-)
> >
>
> Definitely. Someone should write an external for Rendevous support!
> Then we could make a plugin for the Rev IDE something like this:
>
> """Hydra makes collaborative editing easy and elegant. Using Mac OS X
> 10.2's Rendezvous, Hydra allows multiple users to create and edit a
> document in real time by just clicking the share button and typing
> away. Hydra leverages Apple technologies like Rendezvous, the Core
> Foundation Network API, the Cocoa framework, ATSUI, Quartz, Address
> Book, and Apple Help.  In addition to its rich networking capabilities,
> Hydra does everything you'd expect from an advanced text editor."""
>
> http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/developer/2003/07/10/
> innovators.html
>
Well that looks like almost exactly what I'm talking about but with stacks.
But I don't see that Rendezvous has huge advantages over Jabber??? Jabber
could be implemented (and has been) in transcript.

Like Richard, I just wish I had spare unbillable hours to implement it.

Cheers

Monte



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 30 22:33:01 2003
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed Jul 30 22:33:01 2003
Subject: OT - Rev XML terms--tutorials
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIAEPFDGAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <3BCE9E43-C307-11D7-9A23-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 06:54  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Mark,
>
> I loaded www.w3schools.com in about 2.5 seconds. I find the site quite
> helpful on a number of fronts.
>
> The URL you posted, is indeed a joke. It's just an animated GIF which 
> runs
> forever. I don't know how you got there. Please use Plain text in your 
> posts
> instead of HTML. It helps for digest modes.
>
> -Chipp
>
>
> -->On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 07:16 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>
> -->check out http://www.w3schools.com for a good *free* intro to XML
>

The link I posted even claims that it is a joke.

http://www.w3schools.com is where I found this "Joke" link at eight 
items down:

++++++++++++
Internet Joke

Customer: "I want to download the Internet. Do I need a bigger hard 
disk?"

To download the Internet CLICK HERE. ( 
http://www.w3schools.com/downloadwww.htm )
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So did you hear the one about the tech-no-dweeb, the blind man, and the 
duck?





From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 22:35:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 22:35:01 2003
Subject: Fix to distribution builder available
In-Reply-To: <4AA35BCE-C302-11D7-B2FE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <057DE6DE-C307-11D7-B567-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 08:54  PM, Sarah wrote:

> Hi Wolfgang,
>
> I had a look at your screen shots and it seemed that you may not have  
> gone deep enough into the OS X package contents. Did you check in all  
> the sub-folders of the package to see if your sub-stacks where hidden  
> further down the hierarchy?

I agree that's what it looks like. Wolfgang- I build apps on OS X and  
distribute them to coworkers for testing. No problem. I've been doing  
it since Rev 1.1.1.

I humbly suggest: the problem may be that you haven't learned enough  
about app bundles on OS X. I recommend for everyone building on OS X to  
learn the layout of application bundles on OS X. It is in your control  
using just the Finder and a text editor! Therefore it should not  
prevent you from building OS X apps and distributing them in an  
application bundle that meets your exact requirements.

Here is a shell script I use to create my custom app bundle after the  
RR IDE finishes it's build. Note that everything in the script could be  
done with the Finder by hand instead.  One step that is not shown in  
the shell script is editing the XML file  
build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Info.plist. It can be edited  
with a text editor or with the Apple Property List Editor (in dev  
tools). The Info.plist is what contains the get-info and version  
information for the app.

Hope this helps --Alex

--
#!/bin/sh

# copy the binary executable
cp  
build/Standalone_MacOSX_FacilityCa/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/ 
MacOS/Revolution \
     
build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS/ 
FacilityCalculator

# copy the revclips external
cp -R revclips.bundle \
     build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS

# copy into place the revxml external
cp -R build/Standalone_MacOSX_FacilityCa/revxml.bundle \
     build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS

# copy folder of supporting CLIPS files
cp -R clips-models \
     build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS

# copy folder with more supporting files
cp -R data \
     build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS

# remove extra files
rm  
build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS/data/UserData.rev
rm  
build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS/clips-models/*~

# launch the app when I'm done
open build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app

--

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 22:37:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 22:37:00 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEPDDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <50FC64C4-C307-11D7-B567-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 09:21  PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
> Well that looks like almost exactly what I'm talking about but with 
> stacks.
> But I don't see that Rendezvous has huge advantages over Jabber??? 
> Jabber
> could be implemented (and has been) in transcript.

I don't know Jabber. Rendezvous requires no server! Just plug a client 
into the network and go. Jabber requires a server doesn't it? But 
Jabber does sound useful for this kind of thing.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Jul 30 22:59:00 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Jul 30 22:59:00 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <50FC64C4-C307-11D7-B567-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEPEDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

>
> On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 09:21  PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
> > Well that looks like almost exactly what I'm talking about but with
> > stacks.
> > But I don't see that Rendezvous has huge advantages over Jabber???
> > Jabber
> > could be implemented (and has been) in transcript.
>
> I don't know Jabber. Rendezvous requires no server! Just plug a client
> into the network and go. Jabber requires a server doesn't it? But
> Jabber does sound useful for this kind of thing.

Isn't Rendezvous just on a LAN? Jabber requires a server but you can use
jabber.com or any other free one that's already setup or you could setup one
on a LAN if you only need it locally.

Cheers

Monte



From dan at shafermedia.com  Wed Jul 30 23:00:01 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed Jul 30 23:00:01 2003
Subject: Stack opens manually but scripts think it's corrupted?
In-Reply-To: <200307310229.WAA05196@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <93ADD8C8-C30A-11D7-8043-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 07:29 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> go stack URL "file:/Users/dshafer/Documents/ch5foo.rev"
>>
>> Any clues?
>
> Use "binfile" instead of "file"
>
That did the trick. Thanks, Richard. Documentation bug to report to  
Jeanne.



-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- 
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com
Latest Book Release: "HTML Utopia: Designing Without Tables Using CSS"  
(http://www.sitepoint.com/books/css1/)
Watch for my new eBook/Web site/Rev Stack Set, "Revolution Pros" this  
summer



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Wed Jul 30 23:02:00 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Wed Jul 30 23:02:00 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
Message-ID: <200307310355.XAA18322@bright.unitz.ca>

you talking about my alwaysontop dll?  so far all the
machines i've tried it on it's worked.. please feel free to
contact me offlist if you want to try and work things out..

-Sean <support at shaosean.tk>

ps.. machines tested on: Win95C, Win98SE, Win2KPro,
Win2KServer, WinXPHome


----- Original Message Follows -----
> Thanks, I got it, rebuilt the alwaysontop dll under visual
> c++ 6.0 on  win2k, and it doesn't work either (runs fine,


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Wed Jul 30 23:31:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Jul 30 23:31:01 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEPEDFAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <E499DE00-C30E-11D7-B567-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 09:51  PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>
> Isn't Rendezvous just on a LAN? Jabber requires a server but you can 
> use
> jabber.com or any other free one that's already setup or you could 
> setup one
> on a LAN if you only need it locally.

You are right. Rendezvous is just for discovery and announcement of 
services. Jabber is a whole protocol with transport and everything. We 
need both!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From steve at nexpath.com  Thu Jul 31 01:10:00 2003
From: steve at nexpath.com (Steve Gehlbach)
Date: Thu Jul 31 01:10:00 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <200307310355.XAA18322@bright.unitz.ca>
References: <200307310355.XAA18322@bright.unitz.ca>
Message-ID: <3F28B14A.1050405@nexpath.com>

Shao Sean wrote:

> you talking about my alwaysontop dll?  so far all the
> machines i've tried it on it's worked.. please feel free to
> contact me offlist if you want to try and work things out..

Yes, thanks for responding.  I will contact you tomorrow offlist.

Thanks,

Steve



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Jul 31 01:26:00 2003
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu Jul 31 01:26:00 2003
Subject: Question on .rev file format
In-Reply-To: <BB4C8237.31944%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <F3BB24DC-C31E-11D7-97A3-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

mcRipper is open source, as the documentation states -- I wrote it ;-)

http://www.inspiredlogic.com/mc/ripper.html

I haven't used it in several years -- it was a thought experiment. It 
seems to rip properly, but burning does seem to crash in Rev in OS X. 
I'll bug report it.

gc

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 07:57  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Monte Goulding wrote:
>
>> There was an mcRipper to save a stack as XML but I think it crashes 
>> 2.x. It
>> shouldn't be too hard to modify though.
>
> It is open source?
>

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From martin at harbourtown.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 03:22:00 2003
From: martin at harbourtown.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Thu Jul 31 03:22:00 2003
Subject: text hilite colours in standalones (was Missing Color in
 StandAlones)
Message-ID: <l03130300bb4e7ccb637b@[62.136.205.195]>

>Alex Rice wrote:
>Is this problem also why field selection hilight colors are incorrect
>up in OS X standalones? It's pretty frustrating seeing different colors
>in the standalone, I know.

Alex, I don't do OSX at all but incorrect text hilite color in standalones
is a familiar problem to me from other OS's. Is this still happening in
2.0.2 ? (it would be dark grey)

See bug 35 for my take on it and how I fixed it here (by modifying a static
custom prop in the standalone builder) - This bug is marked as fixed. As
far as I recall though it should only afflict you if build on Classic Mac
OS.

martin baxter




From carstenlist at itinfo.dk  Thu Jul 31 03:25:00 2003
From: carstenlist at itinfo.dk (Carsten)
Date: Thu Jul 31 03:25:00 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
In-Reply-To: <200307310229.WAA05204@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <56BA8AB2-C32F-11D7-994E-0003939122FA@itinfo.dk>

The Use Revolution List is a splendid tool and have for a long time 
done a great job.

But I believe that some of the support requests by prof. licencees and 
others to support at runrev.com could be avoided if the list was 
reorganized to allow for a better overview of the debate.
Either a compleete remake or a supplementary/double strategy.

It would, as I see it, be a good idea to change the list to a Forum.

The concept and princip could still be the same: Free and open for all, 
and RunRev answering questions/taking part in the debates and 
announcing as now.

The case is that Revolution has developed into a much more mature 
product and has a much broader appeal than could be said about MetaCard 
2-3 years ago. And therefore the list-concept first adopted by MetaCard 
and then continued by RunRev is now outgrown.

IS THE ARCHIVE NOT SOLVING THIS?
We have used the archive all the time - but it is not as good as a 
forum. It does retain treads, but a lot could be said against the way 
it acutally works.

A forum could be organized in chapters (the right word?)
Some examples:
-Installing
-Graphic formats
-Multimedia
---Movie
---Sound
-Scripting
---sub issue
---sub issue
---sub issue
etc. etc.

And within each chaptor and its sub issues the users will start and add 
to threads.


Examples
http://forums.macosxhints.com/
http://www.macfixitforums.com/

One solution is to take a Mac OS X based Mac or a Linux based Intel 
computer and install one of the open source systems:
I would suggest having a look at: http://www.phpbb.com/ or 
http://www.vbulletin.com/ (vbulletin is not free but only USD 160 and 
supported and used by many)
But many more can be found at: 
http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=309

If there should still be a whish for a list system, then it could be 
set up to e-mail all new entries to those subscribing.

Best regards

Carsten Levin



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Jul 31 03:51:01 2003
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Thu Jul 31 03:51:01 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
Message-ID: <a05210604bb4e8545b7e8@[192.168.1.100]>

The forum software that is used for the sites you mentioned is made 
by Infopop and comes in various flavors, the most affordable and 
widespread is the "Ultimate Bulletin Board" or UBB Classic. It works 
really well and can even optionally be hooked up to a MySQL database 
for efficiency. I've installed and moderated one of these, and it 
almost runs itself. Nice features such as multiple forums,  email 
address masking, email verification, profiles, IP logging, searching 
etc. And it looks great.

http://www.infopop.com/


>
>A forum could be organized in chapters (the right word?)

...

>
>And within each chaptor and its sub issues the users will start and 
>add to threads.
>
>Examples
>http://forums.macosxhints.com/
>http://www.macfixitforums.com/
>
>Carsten Levin


From heather at runrev.com  Thu Jul 31 04:21:00 2003
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Williams)
Date: Thu Jul 31 04:21:00 2003
Subject: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
In-Reply-To: <200307302041.QAA29926@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB4E9C60.156F1%heather@runrev.com>

> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:24:27 -0400
> Subject: Re: Inexcusable? (Was Re: Rev 2.0.2 is availalble)
> From: Donald Watson <hyperdon at earthlink.net>
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 02:24 PM, Alex Rice wrote:
>> 
>> Yep I got mine. I'll append the message sans the unlock code. I don't
>> see what the fuss is about. The message says exactly what is going on.
>> Maybe the poster who thinks it is "inexcusable" has not yet got their
>> message from RR?
>> 
> 
> Alex,
> 
> This was not the point of my original posting. By the way the poster
> who thinks it is inexcusable ( namely me ) has a name. ; ) In fact I
> had not yet received my unlock code. The point I was trying to make was
> that the information concerning what old license category would be
> replaced with which new category and at what price has not been
> forthcoming. Or has everyone else received that information by divine
> absorption as well.
> 
> If Rev were the only tool required to do my job I guess I wouldn't give
> a flip. Truth is I need to stay within a fixed budget in order to be
> able to upgrade all the tools I require as well as perhaps new
> hardware. I don't appreciate being kept in the dark on this matter,
> makes for budget problems that I don't need.
> 

Gentlemen. I appreciate there is always room for improvement in the way we
handle things. I'm sorry some of you are less than happy with the situation.
Some of the blame for this rests with me, rather than Runtime collectively.
I have missed some work due to personal issues, in addition to attending
MacWorld, and this means many of you have not received individual responses
yet regarding the new pricing policies. My backlog has reached monumental
proportions, and however hard I try, I simply cannot answer 1000 emails in
one day.

We do care very much about our existing customers, and greatly appreciate
the patience you have shown. If you have not yet received your new unlock
code for 2.0.2, and you think you should have, I suggest that in order for
me to fasttrack these enquires, you email me (again if you have already done
so previously) with the subject line "Missing New Unlock Code" in the title
of the email.

Further information about upgrades for expired licensees will be forthcoming
very shortly.

Once again, my apologies.

Regards,

Heather

> 
> Regards,
> Don

-- 
Heather Williams <heather at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Ltd.
Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707
Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Thu Jul 31 06:57:01 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Thu Jul 31 06:57:01 2003
Subject: Fix to distribution builder available
In-Reply-To: <057DE6DE-C307-11D7-B567-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <C4FFE4B4-C35D-11D7-99C7-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

Sarah, Alex
On Donnerstag, Jul 31, 2003, at 05:28 Europe/Vienna, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 08:54  PM, Sarah wrote:
>
>> Hi Wolfgang,
>>
>> I had a look at your screen shots and it seemed that you may not have 
>> gone deep enough into the OS X package contents. Did you check in all 
>> the sub-folders of the package to see if your sub-stacks where hidden 
>> further down the hierarchy?
>
> I agree that's what it looks like. Wolfgang- I build apps on OS X and 
> distribute them to coworkers for testing. No problem. I've been doing 
> it since Rev 1.1.1.
FOA thank for your help...
But, imho that cant be the problem, because its builded fine for the 
not so intuitiv Linux. I have no idea about that OS...?
Do I really have to go deep into OSX/unix to build a distribution with 
rev..?
Does this help me to save the problem with the coyright and the icons 
which are lost or not installed?

But the most important point is, that it worked fine, like expected, 
with rev 2.0...
http://www.internettrainer.com/9files/revolution/OSX_2.0.png

> I humbly suggest: the problem may be that you haven't learned enough 
> about app bundles on OS X. I recommend for everyone building on OS X 
> to learn the layout of application bundles on OS X. It is in your 
> control using just the Finder and a text editor! Therefore it should 
> not prevent you from building OS X apps and distributing them in an 
> application bundle that meets your exact requirements.

Maybe you are right, but do I have to do this to work with rev?
I m very, very patient... but once, after years of waiting I would like 
to have a tool which does one of his main features,  without forcing me 
to graduate in Unix...;)

> Here is a shell script I use to create my custom app bundle after the 
> RR IDE finishes it's build. Note that everything in the script could 
> be done with the Finder by hand instead.  One step that is not shown 
> in the shell script is editing the XML file 
> build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Info.plist. It can be edited 
> with a text editor or with the Apple Property List Editor (in dev 
> tools). The Info.plist is what contains the get-info and version 
> information for the app.
>
> Hope this helps --Alex
Thanks a lot for that, i m not familiar with that, but I ll have a look 
at it.

Finally why I have bought rev and not MC some years ago... - the easier 
UI it was... - was it that..?


regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From andre.rombauts at win.be  Thu Jul 31 07:19:01 2003
From: andre.rombauts at win.be (Andre Rombauts)
Date: Thu Jul 31 07:19:01 2003
Subject: Database error?
Message-ID: <000a01c3575c$f91163a0$9e26fea9@piran>

What am I doing wrong?

Using the following, I'm getting an error. In fact revNumberOfRecords returns -1 instead of the number of records. This error is not documented. RunRev doc present a possible error as a litteral data ("revDBerr" or something like that.
on mouseUp
    put empty into field "field 1"
    put revOpenDatabase("ODBC","revo","","","") into myDB
    put revQueryDatabase(MyDB,"SELECT * FROM Nouns") into myRecSet
    put revNumberOfRecords(myRecSet) into NbRec
    repeat NbRec times
        put revCurrentRecord(myRecSet) after field "field 1"
        put revDatabaseColumnNamed(myRecSet,"Noun") & cr after field "field 1"
        revMoveToNextRecord myRecSet
    end repeat
    revCloseDatabase MyDB
end mouseUp
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From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Jul 31 08:25:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Thu Jul 31 08:25:01 2003
Subject: Matchtext
Message-ID: <69103F4A-C359-11D7-9BC3-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Hi list,


I received a few months ago a script from Ken to find a date in a fld

the date is supposed to be in french format :

dd/mm/yyyy


function searchDate textToSearch
   local theDay, TheMonth, TheYear -- this is neccesary
   put empty into tresult
   repeat for each line theLine in textToSearch
     if  
matchtext(theLine,"(0[1-9]|[12][0-9]|3[01])/(0[1-9]|1[0-2])/([0-9][0- 
9])",theDay,TheMonth,TheYear) is true then
       put theLine & cr after tresult
     end if
   end repeat
   delete last char of tresult
   return tresult
end searchDate



BUT
I see in my text, some dates are
dd/mm/yyyy
and other :
  d/mm/yyyy

so first a space then the date of the day then "/" and then 2 digits  
for the month

as
31/07/2003
and
  1/08/2003

note the space before the 1/08/2003

the function above soesn't retrieve the last foramt of date

can someone adapt this function so that the fucntion retrieve the 2  
dates format ???


Thanks.


Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From jamesjrichards at lineone.net  Thu Jul 31 08:28:01 2003
From: jamesjrichards at lineone.net (James Richards)
Date: Thu Jul 31 08:28:01 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
In-Reply-To: <200307311058.GAA14259@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB4ECBCE.37CE%jamesjrichards@lineone.net>

on Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:16:51 +0200, Carsten wrote:

<snip>
> The Use Revolution List is a splendid tool and have for a long time
> done a great job.
> 

<snip> 
> It would, as I see it, be a good idea to change the list to a Forum.

<snip>

I'm not against the idea of a forum especially for following up past issues,
but I would not want to lose the list. There are still quite a few on dial
up access for whom the list provides a quick economical way of keeping up
with the debate offline.

Regards

James


-- 
James J Richards

jamesjrichards at lineone.net

Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063 



From keith at vortex.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 08:37:00 2003
From: keith at vortex.co.uk (Keith Martin)
Date: Thu Jul 31 08:37:00 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <3F284B2C.4000705@nexpath.com>
References: <A8D33B3E-C2C8-11D7-BEFD-000393D64FA0@wanadoo.fr>
 <3F284B2C.4000705@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bb4e8dd7da7e@[10.0.0.4]>

>>Externals SDK from 1.1.1 works with 2.0.x, except on OS X
>>You can download updated SDK from Metacard's site
>>http://www.metacard.com/get.html

>Thanks, I got it, rebuilt the alwaysontop dll under visual c++ 6.0 on
>win2k, and it doesn't work either (runs fine, just doesn't keep the
>window on top).  I checked the win call, seems correct.  Got to get on
>to other things, but I wonder if this isn't a windows bug or doc problem.
>I'm going to do some experimenting when I have time...

It would be nice if this (system-wide floating windows) was something 
doable with Rev itself, assuming there's a way to actually do this on 
more than one platform. It is demonstrably possible using traditional 
programming tools in Mac OS 8, 9 and X, but I have no idea whatsoever 
how that is done.

(Anyway, I'd rather be able to script it myself than just to know 
that a C-weilding programmer can manage it. ;-)

k


From keith at vortex.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 08:58:01 2003
From: keith at vortex.co.uk (Keith Martin)
Date: Thu Jul 31 08:58:01 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
In-Reply-To: <BB4ECBCE.37CE%jamesjrichards@lineone.net>
References: <BB4ECBCE.37CE%jamesjrichards@lineone.net>
Message-ID: <a05210607bb4eccaf8b55@[10.0.0.4]>

><snip>
>>  The Use Revolution List is a splendid tool and have for a long time
>  > done a great job.
>
><snip>
>  > It would, as I see it, be a good idea to change the list to a Forum.


>I'm not against the idea of a forum especially for following up past issues,
>but I would not want to lose the list. There are still quite a few on dial
>up access for whom the list provides a quick economical way of keeping up
>with the debate offline.


I'm not on dialup, but I have an observation. I have found that 
whenever I've been involved in a group discussion that has gone from 
email list to a supposedly 'easier to use' forum I've always stopped 
using it. However, that's just my own (arguably strange) behaviour...

k


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 31 09:06:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 31 09:06:00 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
In-Reply-To: <200307310355.XAA18322@bright.unitz.ca>
Message-ID: <301C4B0C-C35F-11D7-AE12-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Sean,

> you talking about my alwaysontop dll?  so far all the
> machines i've tried it on it's worked.. please feel free to
> contact me offlist if you want to try and work things out..
>
> -Sean <support at shaosean.tk>
>
> ps.. machines tested on: Win95C, Win98SE, Win2KPro,
> Win2KServer, WinXPHome

on my win2000 Pro it does not work in the IDE, only in the standalone!

But it woks fine  then ;-)

> ----- Original Message Follows -----
>> Thanks, I got it, rebuilt the alwaysontop dll under visual
>> c++ 6.0 on  win2k, and it doesn't work either (runs fine,
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 31 09:10:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 31 09:10:01 2003
Subject: Stack opens manually but scripts think it's corrupted?
In-Reply-To: <93ADD8C8-C30A-11D7-8043-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <B0401C3B-C35F-11D7-AE12-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Dan,

>
> On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 07:29 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>>> go stack URL "file:/Users/dshafer/Documents/ch5foo.rev"
>>>
>>> Any clues?
>>
>> Use "binfile" instead of "file"
>>
> That did the trick. Thanks, Richard. Documentation bug to report to 
> Jeanne.

I am not sure if this is a bug...

The "url" keyword is supposed to do some file-actions (copy, put into a 
field or var or customprop etc...).

 From the dox:

URL (keyword)
Designates a container (sic!) consisting of an Internet resource or 
local file in the form of a URL.


With "go", you just have to use the path to the file:

go stack "/Users/dshafer/Documents/ch5foo.rev"


> Dan Shafer

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 31 09:25:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 09:25:00 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
Message-ID: <200307311418.h6VEIah93999@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Kieth,

It's not strange at all. A mailing list comes to you and demands your attention. A message board sits there lurking 24/7, but unless you bother to check it, it generally won't remind you.

I think the happiest medium would be a message board with the ability subscribe to the board via email. Yahoo groups does something like this - though I otherwise can't stand the way that Yahoo groups works.

My only request would be that if the list get's turned into a board that it be hosted at runrev.com, and the URL nt have anything that identifies it as a messageboard - my employer is weird about message boardds and blocks sites like Prospero, Yahoo Groups, etc. viewing them as "chat" groups.

One advantage I can see to a group is that it would reduce the number of times that 6 of us answer a query, since the mail-lag would be gone. Of course, right now when 6 of us answer a question it's often with 5 completely different, completely valid answers - which really shows off the flexibility of Revolution...

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Keith Martin <keith at vortex.co.uk>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:45:52
>
>><snip>
>>>  The Use Revolution List is a splendid tool and
>have for a long time
>>  > done a great job.
>>
>><snip>
>>  > It would, as I see it, be a good idea to
>change the list to a Forum.
>
>
>>I'm not against the idea of a forum especially for
>following up past issues,
>>but I would not want to lose the list. There are
>still quite a few on dial
>>up access for whom the list provides a quick
>economical way of keeping up
>>with the debate offline.
>
>
>I'm not on dialup, but I have an observation. I
>have found that 
>whenever I've been involved in a group discussion
>that has gone from 
>email list to a supposedly 'easier to use' forum
>I've always stopped 
>using it. However, that's just my own (arguably
>strange) behaviour...
>
>k
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From keith at vortex.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 09:54:00 2003
From: keith at vortex.co.uk (Keith Martin)
Date: Thu Jul 31 09:54:00 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
In-Reply-To: <200307311418.h6VEIah93999@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
References: <200307311418.h6VEIah93999@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <a05210608bb4eda45ba53@[10.0.0.4]>

Edwin Gore said:

>Kieth,
>
>It's not strange at all. A mailing list comes to you and demands 
>your attention. A message board sits there lurking 24/7, but unless 
>you bother to check it, it generally won't remind you.

>My only request would be that if the list get's turned into a board 
>that it be hosted at runrev.com, and the URL nt have anything that 
>identifies it as a messageboard - my employer is weird about message 
>boardds and blocks sites like Prospero, Yahoo Groups, etc. viewing 
>them as "chat" groups.

Masking email addresses for posts readable online is another 
important issue. If a collection of addresses is online a spambot 
will find it eventually. [sigh]


>One advantage I can see to a group is that it would reduce the 
>number of times that 6 of us answer a query, since the mail-lag 
>would be gone. Of course, right now when 6 of us answer a question 
>it's often with 5 completely different, completely valid answers - 
>which really shows off the flexibility of Revolution...

A very good point - that's something I regard as a major benefit of 
being subscribed to the mailing lists for Freeway and SuperCard. With 
tools such as Rev and these, there's almost always an impressive 
number of different ways to do something. I don't think an only 
forum-based 'list' would entirely kill that off, but it might reduce 
it substantially.

k


From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 31 10:09:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 10:09:01 2003
Subject: Two IDE usability edits
Message-ID: <200307311502.h6VF2GA09087@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Recently, many people have been commenting on the difficulty of finding some information in the documention.

While I was thinking about it, I wanted to mention two changes that I always make to the IDE whenever I install a new version that make my life much, much easier. In fact, they are both things that I am surprised RunRev doesn't do already.

(For Newbies) To make these changes you need to go to "Preferences" in the Edit menu, click on "General" then turn on the options for "Contextual menus work in Revolution windows"

1. Increase the number of items shown in the documention's "Show" drop-down menu. Showing only 5 items makes it really hard to find things in the docs. Whenever I install RunRev, I always open the docs, shift-control right(Shift-Command on Macs?) click on this menu, select Proporties and knock the number up to 20. Makes it FAR easier to find things, and gives you a better feel for the context.

2. Add scroll bars to the message window. I often have more data in the message window that I can view without scrolling. Scrolling by select dragging is inexact and irritating. So, I always call up the message window first thing, shift-control right(Shift-Command on Macs?) click on the output field of the message window, and click the options to add both horizontal and vertical scrollsbars (small).

I find that these two little things do a lot to make my life easier.


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Jul 31 10:36:00 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Jul 31 10:36:00 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
In-Reply-To: <a05210608bb4eda45ba53@[10.0.0.4]>
Message-ID: <BB4E840A.DD7E%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Keith Martin wrote:

> being subscribed to the mailing lists for Freeway and SuperCard

Speaking of which, I thought you were more a SuperCard guy, Keith.  Are you
poking your nose into Rev now? :-)

Best Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 31 10:39:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 10:39:01 2003
Subject: putting files into images
Message-ID: <200307311532.h6VFWHr17245@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

I'm confused. I am trying to run some tests to determine how images are stored internally, but I am running into problems very early on.

I created a test stack with two images - one called "first" and one called "second". first's size and position is locked, second's is not.

What my test was supposed to do was tell me whether putting an image file into a locked and smaller image would actually resize the image, or if the original image data was retained, and could be retrieved by popping the image into an unlocked inage.

But I can't even get that far. When I try to put an image from a file into a control, the image remains blank. I think I am doing everything as I am supposed to, and the image I am trying to import was actually exported originally from RunRev.

Below is the script I am using - I have tried every variation on # of "/"s between "file:" and the path that I can think of (0-3).

on mouseup
  answer file empty with filter "JPEGs,*.jpg"

  put it into theFile
 
 if theFile is empty then
    beep
    exit mouseup
  end if


  put URL "file:" & theFile into image "first"
  put image "first" into image "second"

end mouseup


From mail at richard-hillen.de  Thu Jul 31 10:50:00 2003
From: mail at richard-hillen.de (R. Hillen)
Date: Thu Jul 31 10:50:00 2003
Subject: Missing Color in StandAlones
In-Reply-To: <200307302041.QAA29954@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B83B5174-C36D-11D7-BCEB-000393854988@richard-hillen.de>

Hello list,

I followed Thiery Arbellot:

"When you build the distribution, have you uncheck the check box "apply
default Colors" (step 3 of 3, tab Stacks) ?"
and unchecked the check box.

Now my Stack is colored.

thanx to all for quick help.

Richard Hillen



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 31 10:51:00 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 31 10:51:00 2003
Subject: putting files into images
In-Reply-To: <200307311532.h6VFWHr17245@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <CF6D6FD7-C36D-11D7-AE12-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Edwin,

> I'm confused. I am trying to run some tests to determine how images 
> are stored internally, but I am running into problems very early on.
>
> I created a test stack with two images - one called "first" and one 
> called "second". first's size and position is locked, second's is not.
>
> What my test was supposed to do was tell me whether putting an image 
> file into a locked and smaller image would actually resize the image, 
> or if the original image data was retained, and could be retrieved by 
> popping the image into an unlocked inage.
>
> But I can't even get that far. When I try to put an image from a file 
> into a control, the image remains blank. I think I am doing everything 
> as I am supposed to, and the image I am trying to import was actually 
> exported originally from RunRev.
>
> Below is the script I am using - I have tried every variation on # of 
> "/"s between "file:" and the path that I can think of (0-3).
>
> on mouseup
>   answer file empty with filter "JPEGs,*.jpg"
>
>   put it into theFile
>
>  if theFile is empty then
>     beep
>     exit mouseup
>   end if
>
>
>   put URL "file:" & theFile into image "first"

try:

  put URL "binfile:" & theFile into image "first"
## binfile... not file...

And see if it works...

>   put image "first" into image "second"
>
> end mouseup

Hope that helps.


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 31 10:57:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 31 10:57:01 2003
Subject: Fix to distribution builder available
In-Reply-To: <C4FFE4B4-C35D-11D7-99C7-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <AB5464D9-C36E-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 07:49  AM, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:
> FOA thank for your help...

Gladly

> But, imho that cant be the problem, because its builded fine for the  
> not so intuitiv Linux. I have no idea about that OS...?

Huh?

> Do I really have to go deep into OSX/unix to build a distribution with  
> rev..?

You can do it from the _Finder_. How deep is that? In classic Mac OS  
the equivalent operations one had to do it with ResEdit and edit  
confusing resource files. I hate using ResEdit. That's what I call not  
so intuitive.

> Does this help me to save the problem with the coyright and the icons  
> which are lost or not installed?

Yes, simply edit Info.plist in a text editor and you can change the  
Copyright, Version and Icons file for the application bundle.

> But the most important point is, that it worked fine, like expected,  
> with rev 2.0...
> http://www.internettrainer.com/9files/revolution/OSX_2.0.png

RE: OS X app bundles. It easy. It's a packaging and distribution issue.  
Any good software package for OS X should also have documentation,  
supporting files should be put into the application bundle, and the  
whole bunch and be put into a .sit or .dmg file. Adjusting your  
application bundle to suit is just part of that packaging and  
distribution process. Rev doesn't and will never do all that for you.

> I m very, very patient... but once, after years of waiting I would  
> like to have a tool which does one of his main features,  without  
> forcing me to graduate in Unix...;)

Well do you want to get the job done, or nurse old wounds? ;-)  It  
requires no Unix expertise. This really falls into the packaging and  
distribution realm, which you are responsible for anyways.

But re: your screenshot above, maybe I don't understand what the  
problem is and you should file a bugzilla report. If that's the case  
then I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

However, I still think that everyone distributing software for OS X  
needs to learn about application bundles on OS X.

Learn about app bundles here:
	http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/ 
SystemOverview/AppPackaging/

Install the Free developer tools and use these utilities

	IconComposer.app -- creates an .icns file which is referenced in  
Info.plist
	Property List Editor.app -- edits .plist files in a convenient outline  
view.

BTW I have filed a feature request with RR for enhancing how it deals  
with application bundles on OS X. But in the meantime it isn't stopping  
me from making app bundles just how I want them.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 31 11:01:02 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 11:01:02 2003
Subject: putting files into images
Message-ID: <200307311553.h6VFr1D25241@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

That did it. I'll report a documention bug since I copied and pasted the code right from the docs...


>>   put URL "file:" & theFile into image "first"
>
>try:
>
>  put URL "binfile:" & theFile into image "first"
>## binfile... not file...
>
>And see if it works...


From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Thu Jul 31 11:23:00 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Thu Jul 31 11:23:00 2003
Subject: 'Spreadsheet'  Woes...
Message-ID: <000201c3577e$f7400690$f500000a@qedscompaq>

I've got my field looking (well nearly) pretty much how I want.
It's a field/table with Cell Formatting and Cell Editing. Looks like a
spreadsheet...

I'm looking for commands such as
On EnterCell, On CloseCell, On ExitCell to initiate calculations on
other cells 
And specific cell commands...
Eg Assign a script to field "tdata"

On CloseCell tcol,trow
  --the cell has been changed
  if tcol=7 then
  --calculate the sales tax
  put trow*0.175 into Cell(7,trow)
  end if
end Close Cell

Also I'd like to format column 7 to rightalign...

Eg Set the ColumnAlign of Column 7 of fld "tdata" to right

Am I expecting too much of this new feature? If so how do I trap changes
in 'Cells' so I can write these procedures myself.

Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated.

Regards

Gary Rathbone




From keith at vortex.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 11:28:00 2003
From: keith at vortex.co.uk (Keith Martin)
Date: Thu Jul 31 11:28:00 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
In-Reply-To: <BB4E840A.DD7E%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BB4E840A.DD7E%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <a0521060abb4ee86b0b5c@[10.0.0.4]>

>Speaking of which, I thought you were more a SuperCard guy, Keith.  Are you
>poking your nose into Rev now? :-)

Heh! I like both. As you know, I have used SC for many, many years 
(and I still do). I remain deeply impressed by it.

I won't get into a detailed discussion of why I feel one's better 
than the other in different areas, but I've always liked Rev too. And 
hey, my job involves knowing as much as possible about as many things 
as possible! I keep trying... ;-)

k


From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Thu Jul 31 11:28:32 2003
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu Jul 31 11:28:32 2003
Subject: Fix to distribution builder available
In-Reply-To: <C4FFE4B4-C35D-11D7-99C7-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <F62820A8-C372-11D7-A039-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 06:49 AM, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:
>>
> Thanks a lot for that, i m not familiar with that, but I ll have a 
> look at it.
>
> Finally why I have bought rev and not MC some years ago... - the 
> easier UI it was... - was it that..?
>
>
>

Wolfgang,

Here is a video I created that shows what you need to do.  I have found 
that version 2.0.1 of Rev does not correctly write the plst with your 
information.  So I edit it myself.  I then save the file for later use 
with later builds of my app.  I have one for each app.

I hope this helps some.

http://www.canelasoftware.com/mcmirror.html

The video link is at the bottom of that page.


Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 31 11:46:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 31 11:46:01 2003
Subject: Matchtext
In-Reply-To: <69103F4A-C359-11D7-9BC3-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <8DC0B0EA-C375-11D7-8062-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 07:18 AM, Yves COPPE wrote:

>     if  
> matchtext(theLine,"(0[1-9]|[12][0-9]|3[01])/(0[1-9]|1[0-2])/([0-9][0- 
> 9])",theDay,TheMonth,TheYear) is true then

Try this:
"([ 0][1-9]|[12][0-9]|3[01])/(0[1-9]|1[0-2])/([0-9][0-9])"

This will include the space in theDay and there must be space or zero.   
This can be enhanced to exclude the space and to allow other situations  
such as the string starting with a one digit day.

This assumes a two digit year, as the original, so it is picking up  
only the 20 of 2003.  It can be enhanced to work with 4 digit and even  
to skip over a "20" if needed.

This can also be enhanced to handle a single digit month, also.

Dar Scott


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 31 12:05:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:05:01 2003
Subject: Matchtext
In-Reply-To: <8DC0B0EA-C375-11D7-8062-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <327DA5A9-C378-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 10:39  AM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 07:18 AM, Yves COPPE wrote:
>
>>     if  
>> matchtext(theLine,"(0[1-9]|[12][0-9]|3[01])/(0[1-9]|1[0-2])/([0-9][0- 
>> 9])",theDay,TheMonth,TheYear) is true then
>
> Try this:
> "([ 0][1-9]|[12][0-9]|3[01])/(0[1-9]|1[0-2])/([0-9][0-9])"

Here is one that handles different lengths for the digits, but doesn't  
check the ranges of the day and month numbers. But that could be done  
in transcript.

put matchText(tLine, "(\d{1,2})/(\d{1,2})/(\d{2,4})", tDay, tMo, tYr)


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From dan at shafermedia.com  Thu Jul 31 12:10:01 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:10:01 2003
Subject: Stack Opens Manually But Script Thinks It's Corrupted?
In-Reply-To: <200307311459.KAA22445@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EAD923B0-C378-11D7-8F10-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 07:59 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

>  From the dox:
>
> URL (keyword)
> Designates a container (sic!) consisting of an Internet resource or
> local file in the form of a URL.
>
>
> With "go", you just have to use the path to the file:
>
> go stack "/Users/dshafer/Documents/ch5foo.rev"
>
I don't disagree. But in writing my book on Revolution, I need to try 
out all the variations to see if and how they work. In this case, your 
code is correct and simple but the docs clearly say that I should be 
*able* to use the URL approach. I can envision times when I'd like to 
be able to use a common routine to access a stack that may be either on 
the user's drive or on the net somewhere and in that case, being able 
to use the URL approach would be more efficient.

The dox "bug" is simply that there's no explicit example of how to do 
this and when you look at the other code examples available, they seem 
to imply that you should use the file: protocol. The binfile: protocol 
isn't mentioned in those contexts.




From dan at shafermedia.com  Thu Jul 31 12:21:01 2003
From: dan at shafermedia.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:21:01 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list 
Message-ID: <7C1DE8CE-C37A-11D7-8F10-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>

I have long been an advocate of user groups and discussion boards over  
mailing lists. I have spent a good part of my career studying and  
working in the field of online community and collaboration.

I'm in the process of opening a new site, as many of you know, to  
support my forthcoming three-eBook set on Revolution. It will be going  
live within another two weeks or so. I plan to ask RunRev at that point  
for permission to reflect this list into the discussion board. That  
would enable us to have the best of both worlds. The technology I'm  
using to build my discussion board and supporting site stuff is a  
combination of Hemingway (Chipp Walters' brilliant CMS) and Web  
Crossing (http://www.webcrossing.com). Web Crossing allows us to have  
discussions that you can not only subscribe to by email but participate  
in entirely through email using an NNTP (news) client if you prefer to  
participate that way.

The only thing that doesn't give us that I've seen a request for here  
is for the board to be hosted at RunRev. I'm not sure why that would be  
important, but I'm even open to that idea if it is really desirable.

My plan leaves this list in tact but allows you to view it in a  
discussion board context, participate via either the board or email,  
receive notification of updates (single or digest mode) via email, and  
yet do things like upload files for people to look at, attach images to  
posts, etc.

I'd be interested in feedback on this idea, either here or off-list to  
dan at shafermedia.com.


-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- 
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com
Latest Book Release: "HTML Utopia: Designing Without Tables Using CSS"  
(http://www.sitepoint.com/books/css1/)
Watch for my new eBook/Web site/Rev Stack Set, "Revolution Pros" this  
summer



From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Jul 31 12:34:01 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:34:01 2003
Subject: documentation misspelling
Message-ID: <2FBA9C90-C37C-11D7-82DC-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

I'd love to report using the "bugzilla" page but when I search to see 
if the bug was already reported, all I get is a very strange looking 
html page - downloaded to my desktop! - telling me to "please stand 
by". I'm using OSX 10.2.6 and Safari. Must I use IE?

In any case, here's the bug:

Misspelling in Transcript Dictionary "repeatCount" entry, as follows:

"If you set the repeatCount of an animated GIF image to zero while it 
is playing, it stops repeatsing immediately."

Obviously, "repeatsing" is incorrect.

May all future bugs be this insignificant.

Barry



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 31 12:38:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:38:01 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list 
In-Reply-To: <7C1DE8CE-C37A-11D7-8F10-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <D513E424-C37C-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 11:14  AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> My plan leaves this list in tact

intact or tactless? Posts here are rarely tactful, least of all mine! 
;-)

> but allows you to view it in a discussion board context, participate 
> via either the board or email, receive notification of updates (single 
> or digest mode) via email, and yet do things like upload files for 
> people to look at, attach images to posts, etc.
>
> I'd be interested in feedback on this idea, either here or off-list to 
> dan at shafermedia.com.

PERFECT! I'm on a couple of email lists where there is a disassociated 
web-board and it is a poor setup. What you describe is ideal.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From steve at nexpath.com  Thu Jul 31 12:41:01 2003
From: steve at nexpath.com (Steve Gehlbach)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:41:01 2003
Subject: Matchtext
In-Reply-To: <327DA5A9-C378-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
References: <327DA5A9-C378-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <3F295504.1080203@nexpath.com>

Alex Rice wrote:
> put matchText(tLine, "(\d{1,2})/(\d{1,2})/(\d{2,4})", tDay, tMo, tYr)

??  Although the "\d" and {m,n} syntax is standard regexp well 
documented in Perl, I did not see this in the Rev Regular Expression 
Syntax page.  Do I have bad eyes or is this not documented (maybe Rev is 
a complete reg exp implementation but not completely explained in the 
rev docs)?

-Steve



From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 12:44:00 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:44:00 2003
Subject: How do I make an external ?
In-Reply-To: <3EAC0344-C2BD-11D7-9BED-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <004c01c3578a$3cacb240$fe841f3e@Jez2>

Well I just about managed to work it all out, but it does need some
proper documenting! I now have an external which allows a Rev
application to interact directly with Winamp. Thanks for your
suggestions Alex.

If anyone else needs an external to control winamp let me know (it
implements all but a few of the functions listed here:
http://www.winamp.com/nsdn/winamp2x/dev/sdk/api.jhtml) - winamp versions
1 and 2 only (3 is not worth having anyway!)

Cheers.
J

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alex Rice
Sent: 30 July 2003 19:40
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: How do I make an external ?



On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 11:36  AM, Jez wrote:

> I want to make an external for Revolution to access a few of the 
> functions provided in User32.dll. I do have experience of visual C 
> programming. I found a directory "External SDK" in my old 1.1.1 
> Revolution directory, but nothing under 2.0, and I don't understand 
> what's in there anyway. Are there any guidelines anywhere ?

Hi, I am not an expert at writing externals, but I have been in the 
same boat as you recently. Information on writing externals is very 
scarce. Here are some suggestions:

1) The "External SDK": look at external.c mainly. This is your primary 
reference. It's not commented very well so you gotta guess what's going 
on. Look at the associated .rev stack. It has two apps in the external: 
Game of Life, and Image Compositing. Why it's not included with RR 2.0 
I would like to know.

2) Post questions to this mailing list. A few people here have been 
coding externals in C for years.

3) _Hypertalk Script Language Guide_ by Apple Computer, in Appendix A, 
has the closest thing I can find to a documentation of the externals 
API. The calling interfaces are changed, but the function names are the 
same. Unfortunately there are more Pascal examples than C examples.

4) RR said a tutorial on writing externals is in the works. Right RR 
:-)?

5) So web searches for XFCN and XCMD. XFCN stands for "external 
function", a transcript function handler that's implemented in native 
code. XCMD is "external command" or a transcript command handler that's 
implemented in native code.

Hope this helps,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com





From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Jul 31 12:46:01 2003
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:46:01 2003
Subject: Matchtext
In-Reply-To: <327DA5A9-C378-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <F63B4588-C37D-11D7-9BC3-003065E14B04@skynet.be>

Le jeudi, 31 juil 2003, ? 18:58 Europe/Brussels, Alex Rice a ?crit :

>
> On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 10:39  AM, Dar Scott wrote:
>
>>
>> On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 07:18 AM, Yves COPPE wrote:
>>
>>>     if  
>>> matchtext(theLine,"(0[1-9]|[12][0-9]|3[01])/(0[1-9]|1[0-2])/([0- 
>>> 9][0-9])",theDay,TheMonth,TheYear) is true then
>>
>> Try this:
>> "([ 0][1-9]|[12][0-9]|3[01])/(0[1-9]|1[0-2])/([0-9][0-9])"
>
> Here is one that handles different lengths for the digits, but doesn't  
> check the ranges of the day and month numbers. But that could be done  
> in transcript.
>
> put matchText(tLine, "(\d{1,2})/(\d{1,2})/(\d{2,4})", tDay, tMo, tYr)
>
>

Thank you Dar an d Alex...

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 31 12:49:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:49:01 2003
Subject: Matchtext
In-Reply-To: <327DA5A9-C378-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <549FE04C-C37E-11D7-8062-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 10:58 AM, Alex Rice wrote:

> Here is one that handles different lengths for the digits, but doesn't  
> check the ranges of the day and month numbers. But that could be done  
> in transcript.
>
> put matchText(tLine, "(\d{1,2})/(\d{1,2})/(\d{2,4})", tDay, tMo, tYr)

I like this better.  The other only did partial checking anyway, so if  
date checking is needed, Transcript is a good way to go.  The other did  
have an advantage in that it would be less likely pick up something in  
a long text that looked like a date but was not.

Dar Scott


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 31 12:51:01 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:51:01 2003
Subject: documentation misspelling
In-Reply-To: <2FBA9C90-C37C-11D7-82DC-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <A778D55C-C37E-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 11:26  AM, Barry Levine wrote:

> I'd love to report using the "bugzilla" page but when I search to see 
> if the bug was already reported, all I get is a very strange looking 
> html page - downloaded to my desktop! - telling me to "please stand 
> by". I'm using OSX 10.2.6 and Safari. Must I use IE?

Not Safari, not IE. Must use Mozilla/Netscape!! It's unbelievable but 
true. RR folks: how about updating the bugzilla page saying Mozilla is 
required to use the site?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 12:52:01 2003
From: jbradshaw at blueyonder.co.uk (Jez)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:52:01 2003
Subject: Questions about licensing
Message-ID: <004d01c3578b$8106c100$fe841f3e@Jez2>

1. If I buy the express license is this for just 1 year ? Can I still
continue to develop after the year expires with the version I paid for
or does it just cease to work? Am I entitled to new fixes/versions in
that year ?

2. I read somewhere that when the evaluation edition expires after 30
days it reverts to a "free" edition with script length limits, is this
true ?

3. With the express license is there any way of turning off the "built
with revolution" popup at the end? Or at least change it to my own
picture? (I notice the pics are in a rev subdirectory so Im wondering if
they can be replaced or removed).

I'm tempted to go for the express license but I'm just as tempted to
stick with my free edition of 2.0.1 (or even 1.1.1) with script length
limits - it seems fairly stable. Answers to these questions may help
make up my mind. Thanks in advance.




From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 31 12:53:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:53:01 2003
Subject: Matchtext
In-Reply-To: <3F295504.1080203@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <EFDB312A-C37E-11D7-8062-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 11:42 AM, Steve Gehlbach wrote:

> Alex Rice wrote:
>> put matchText(tLine, "(\d{1,2})/(\d{1,2})/(\d{2,4})", tDay, tMo, tYr)
>
> ??  Although the "\d" and {m,n} syntax is standard regexp well  
> documented in Perl, I did not see this in the Rev Regular Expression  
> Syntax page.  Do I have bad eyes or is this not documented (maybe Rev  
> is a complete reg exp implementation but not completely explained in  
> the rev docs)?

In my minimal change response, I avoided this issue.  There is an  
enhancement in Revolution 2 that expanded capabilities.

Alex has reason to believe that this is exactly what it has:

http://www.pcre.org/pcre.txt

Ken Ray has also mentioned this reference:

http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.6.1/pod/perlre.html

I fully expect Revolution 2 documentation to catch up and provide a  
good pointer and provide a caveat as to the completeness of its  
description.

Dar Scott


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 31 12:56:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:56:02 2003
Subject: Matchtext
In-Reply-To: <3F295504.1080203@nexpath.com>
Message-ID: <51DC76B3-C37F-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 11:42  AM, Steve Gehlbach wrote:

> Alex Rice wrote:
>> put matchText(tLine, "(\d{1,2})/(\d{1,2})/(\d{2,4})", tDay, tMo, tYr)
>
> ??  Although the "\d" and {m,n} syntax is standard regexp well 
> documented in Perl, I did not see this in the Rev Regular Expression 
> Syntax page.  Do I have bad eyes or is this not documented (maybe Rev 
> is a complete reg exp implementation but not completely explained in 
> the rev docs)?

Steve- yes since RR 2.0 the regex engine is using the PCRE library. It 
supports nearly all Perl regular expressions syntax. It's not explained 
in the Rev docs- except mentioning Perl-compatible regex in the Release 
Notes / What's New doc for RR 2.0.x

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Jul 31 13:01:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Jul 31 13:01:01 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list 
In-Reply-To: <7C1DE8CE-C37A-11D7-8F10-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB4EA5F5.8258%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Dan Shafer"  wrote:

> I plan to ask RunRev at that point
> for permission to reflect this list into the discussion board.
 
> I'd be interested in feedback on this idea

Here's one which I'm sure will be followed by many more...

I'm no expert on Web forums but have some observations.  IMO, a "best of
both worlds" solution would be to have a Web based board that sends email.
For myself, the appeal of email (as opposed to a forum) is that I don't have
to go searching for new messages, determine what I've read and what I
haven't, make sure I respond in the correct folder, etc.  All that stuff is
great for organizational purposes and future reference but it demands a
significant of time which I find bothersome.  With email, I don't have to go
looking for it, it finds me.  And keep in mind that many of the folks on the
mail lists donate their time/knowledge on a volunteer basis; if the process
for donating that time becomes too demanding, the volunteers are going to
stop volunteering.

Another issue with forums that (IMO) can be a problem are those that allow
users to create topics.  The board winds up with thousands of folders, many
of which are redundant and effectively duplicate the same problem with an
email forum: the same questions get asked and answered repeatedly but now
you have the additional headache of having to manually search through all
those message on a Web board.  Heinous.  I believe a suggestion was made
here to have some designated top level subject folders such as "graphics',
"text management" etc -- I would strongly endorse this.  Let an
admin/moderator be responsible for creating the top level folders and limit
the number of folders to a "manageable" number.

Two references that might be worth throwing in the pot:

1) Adobe has (had?) a support board that allows you to see all new messages
from any forum you are subscribed to in a single window when you log in --
kind of like an answering machine.  IMO, this is a very effective means to
save time when looking for new messages/threads and should be a basic
feature of whatever board technology is evaluated.

2)  ColdFusion has a board system that allows threaded posts to be emailed
so you are notified by (and can respond via) email any time a new post
reaches the board.  To my mind this falls under the "best of both worlds"
solution.  It offers multiple methods for folks to participate which makes
it appealing and effective for a broader range of users.

FWIW, 

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 31 13:05:02 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 31 13:05:02 2003
Subject: How do I make an external ?
In-Reply-To: <004c01c3578a$3cacb240$fe841f3e@Jez2>
Message-ID: <83548E41-C380-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 11:36  AM, Jez wrote:

> Well I just about managed to work it all out, but it does need some
> proper documenting! I now have an external which allows a Rev
> application to interact directly with Winamp. Thanks for your
> suggestions Alex.

You're welcome. That's got to be a world's record time for learning to 
write an external! It look me a _lot_ longer. Although my C skills are 
not very good.

> If anyone else needs an external to control winamp let me know (it
> implements all but a few of the functions listed here:
> http://www.winamp.com/nsdn/winamp2x/dev/sdk/api.jhtml) - winamp 
> versions
> 1 and 2 only (3 is not worth having anyway!)

Maybe submit it to the User Contributions page at runrev.com!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jul 31 13:36:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu Jul 31 13:36:01 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
In-Reply-To: <BB4EA5F5.8258%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BB4EA5F5.8258%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <3F295FEE.90407@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/31/03 12:54 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> I'm no expert on Web forums but have some observations.  IMO, a "best of
> both worlds" solution would be to have a Web based board that sends email.
> For myself, the appeal of email (as opposed to a forum) is that I don't have
> to go searching for new messages, determine what I've read and what I
> haven't, make sure I respond in the correct folder, etc. 

I have to agree. Web boards are slow and tedious, they take far longer 
to load into my browser than email takes to arrive, and I don't have the 
time to click-and-load a bunch of folders and messages. If I get busy, I 
never sign on. On the other hand, my email gets sorted as it arrives in 
my inbox and I can quickly scan through the resulting list. I am much 
less likely to participate in a web forum.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 31 13:57:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 13:57:01 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list 
Message-ID: <200307311850.h6VIohB87740@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Actually Dan, for me (the person who made that request) it's not being hosted at RunRev that is important, so much as NOT hosted at a known messageboard site like Yahoo Groups, or Prospero. I can't get to those while at work.

Having it hosted at your site would be just fine.

>The only thing that doesn't give us that I've seen
>a request for here  
>is for the board to be hosted at RunRev. I'm not
>sure why that would be  
>important, but I'm even open to that idea if it is
>really desirable.


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Thu Jul 31 13:59:00 2003
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Thu Jul 31 13:59:00 2003
Subject: Fix to distribution builder available
In-Reply-To: <AB5464D9-C36E-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <154CA903-C37C-11D7-BFA8-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Donnerstag, Jul 31, 2003, at 17:50 Europe/Vienna, Alex Rice wrote:

> Well do you want to get the job done, or nurse old wounds? ;-)  It 
> requires no Unix expertise. This really falls into the packaging and 
> distribution realm, which you are responsible for anyways.
>
> But re: your screenshot above, maybe I don't understand what the 
> problem is and you should file a bugzilla report. If that's the case 
> then I apologize for jumping to conclusions.
>
> However, I still think that everyone distributing software for OS X 
> needs to learn about application bundles on OS X.

I think thats a missunderstandig now...
rev did the build correct the standalone(engine) and the others stacks 
in the data folder:
* correct in OS9
* correct in WIN
* correct in Linux
* wrong in OSX
(I thin Linux is not so far way from bsd Unix, but its more far away 
from OS 9 or WIN and both are build correct; please correct me if I m 
wrong...)

and rev 2.0 did this build correct in OSX too...
that is what you can see on the other screenshot...

So this has imho nothing to do with packaging and distribution process 
in OSX, which will start after that.
Its a bug in the new (updated) distribution builder. An all the other 
features of the distribution builder like icons did work in older 
releases. Why does all that no work in the "fixed distribution builder"?

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From cm_sheffield at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 13:59:33 2003
From: cm_sheffield at yahoo.com (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Thu Jul 31 13:59:33 2003
Subject: database bug in 2.0.2
Message-ID: <20030731185220.50912.qmail@web20416.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm having a problem and am just wondering if anyone
else is experiencing anything similar.  I have a
Valentina database that is storing some media content
stored in BLOB fields (pictures, sounds, animations,
etc.).  I am using the revDatabaseColumnNamed function
to retrieve this data and save it to a tempory binary
file.  Anyway, all this works perfectly in version
2.0.1 of Rev.  When I updated to 2.0.2, suddenly this
function stopped working, but only on files that
contain audio data.  The pictures can still be
retrieved just fine.  Like I said, the same exact code
runs perfectly in 2.0.1.  So something changed between
the two versions.

Does anyone have any ideas, or should I just go ahead
and report it as a bug?



=====
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
www.readnaturally.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From alrice at ARCplanning.com  Thu Jul 31 14:10:00 2003
From: alrice at ARCplanning.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:10:00 2003
Subject: Fix to distribution builder available
In-Reply-To: <154CA903-C37C-11D7-BFA8-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <A99BD562-C389-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 11:26  AM, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:
> So this has imho nothing to do with packaging and distribution process 
> in OSX, which will start after that.
> Its a bug in the new (updated) distribution builder.

Wolfgang, I'm really sorry: I don't understand what the problem is. The 
distribution builder works for me on OS X.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 31 14:16:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:16:00 2003
Subject: Questions about licensing
Message-ID: <200307311909.h6VJ99d93505@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

>1. If I buy the express license is this for just 1
>year ? Can I still
>continue to develop after the year expires with the
>version I paid for
>or does it just cease to work? Am I entitled to new
>fixes/versions in
>that year ?

It will continue to work. I forget exactly what you get as far as updates, but I believe it's all minors updates, and 1 major update.

>
>2. I read somewhere that when the evaluation
>edition expires after 30
>days it reverts to a "free" edition with script
>length limits, is this
>true ?

This is no longer true. Now it's simply a 30-day trial.

>3. With the express license is there any way of
>turning off the "built
>with revolution" popup at the end? Or at least
>change it to my own
>picture? (I notice the pics are in a rev
>subdirectory so Im wondering if
>they can be replaced or removed).

You might be able to, but the license probably restricts you from doing so.

>I'm tempted to go for the express license but I'm
>just as tempted to
>stick with my free edition of 2.0.1 (or even 1.1.1)
>with script length
>limits - it seems fairly stable. Answers to these
>questions may help
>make up my mind. Thanks in advance.

I had some doubts about the new licensing scheme when it first came out, but after looking everything over, made the decision to go ahead and get the Studio version, since I can't stand the idea of the exit screen. I see that as a major problem for the Express Version, esopecially when it goes to full price in September.


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Jul 31 14:17:00 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:17:00 2003
Subject: Fix to distribution builder available
In-Reply-To: <154CA903-C37C-11D7-BFA8-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-AC40EFECC38A11D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

On 7/31/03 Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote

>I think thats a missunderstandig now...
>rev did the build correct the standalone(engine) and the others stacks 
>in the data folder:
>* correct in OS9
>* correct in WIN
>* correct in Linux
>* wrong in OSX
>(I thin Linux is not so far way from bsd Unix, but its more far away 
>from OS 9 or WIN and both are build correct; please correct me if I m 
>wrong...)
>
>and rev 2.0 did this build correct in OSX too...
>that is what you can see on the other screenshot...
>
>So this has imho nothing to do with packaging and distribution process 
>in OSX, which will start after that.
>Its a bug in the new (updated) distribution builder. An all the other 
>features of the distribution builder like icons did work in older 
>releases. Why does all that no work in the "fixed distribution builder"?

I think the 2.0.2 Distribution builder puts the files in the OS X Package automatically now.  Check out the package contents after the doing the build and see if the files are in there.  I saw this to, filed a bug report and that was the response.  I had already reinstalled 2.0.1 due to the database problems in 2.0.2 so I haven't checked this yet.


Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jul 31 14:19:01 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:19:01 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list 
In-Reply-To: <200307311850.h6VIohB87740@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>
Message-ID: <BB4EB7ED.31B10%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Edwin Gore wrote:

> Actually Dan, for me (the person who made that request) it's not being hosted
> at RunRev that is important, so much as NOT hosted at a known messageboard
> site like Yahoo Groups, or Prospero. I can't get to those while at work.

Why don't we just build in it Rev and use MySQL on the backend, maybe as a
plugin?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 31 14:20:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:20:01 2003
Subject: documentation misspelling
Message-ID: <200307311912.h6VJCtr94758@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

I've had no problems using it on the PC with IE - it's silly that it won't work on IE or Safari the Mac...isn't that why we went over to web-based stuff in the first place?

Oh, and I believe that "repeatsing" is a Scottish slang phrasing that means "to again, again"

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Alex Rice <alrice at ARCplanning.com>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:44:37
>
>
>On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 11:26  AM, Barry
>Levine wrote:
>
>> I'd love to report using the "bugzilla" page but
>when I search to see 
>> if the bug was already reported, all I get is a
>very strange looking 
>> html page - downloaded to my desktop! - telling
>me to "please stand 
>> by". I'm using OSX 10.2.6 and Safari. Must I use
>IE?
>
>Not Safari, not IE. Must use Mozilla/Netscape!!
>It's unbelievable but 
>true. RR folks: how about updating the bugzilla
>page saying Mozilla is 
>required to use the site?
>
>Alex Rice, Software Developer
>Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
>http://ARCplanning.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Jul 31 14:33:01 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:33:01 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list 
In-Reply-To: <BB4EB7ED.31B10%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-E3AEB4A5C38C11D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

On 7/31/03 Richard Gaskin wrote

>Edwin Gore wrote:
>
>> Actually Dan, for me (the person who made that request) it's not being hosted
>> at RunRev that is important, so much as NOT hosted at a known messageboard
>> site like Yahoo Groups, or Prospero. I can't get to those while at work.
>
>Why don't we just build in it Rev and use MySQL on the backend, maybe as a
>plugin?

That could be very cool.  Being able to search for help on a specific problem on the board while inside Rev would be nice.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jul 31 14:39:00 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:39:00 2003
Subject: Stack Opens Manually But Script Thinks It's Corrupted?
In-Reply-To: <EAD923B0-C378-11D7-8F10-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <BB4EBCA5.31B14%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> The dox "bug" is simply that there's no explicit example of how to do
> this and when you look at the other code examples available, they seem
> to imply that you should use the file: protocol.

When I first started with MetaCard in '97, I was asked to write a routine
that copied files from one directory to another.  With a decade of SuperCard
experience under my belt, I used "open file" to read them, only to find that
the files were unreadable in the target dir.  Looking into it more deeply I
found that I should have useds "open file <filename> for binary read".

Oh, the rant I had in the office that day:  "How dumb!  What the heck's
wrong with that Scott Raney!  Doesn't he know that when we read files we
want the file's actual data unmodified?!?"

Looking further still, I recalled that HyperCard works similarly to MC in
this regard:  it modifies data when reading to remove null bytes.  MC goes
one step further to also convert line endings the to Unix-native form (LF)
used internally within MC.

But MC goes even further than SC or HC by giving us a choice:  you can do a
straight read which assumes text and pretties it up for internal use, or you
can open as binary to read the unadulterated data.

So the central question is: Which shoud be the default, the HC model which
alters the data or the SC model that doesn't?

For whatever reason, probably history and relative installed based, MC (and
now Rev) uses the HC model.  When the url syntax was added in v2.1 (?) it
followed suit, offering "file:" and "binfile" as services (and later
"resfile:" for Mac folks).

The docs could probably clarify this better, and with so many thousands of
pages to write and maintain a note to Jeanne on such things is probably very
helpful.

But in spite of my own initial tantrum I've come to appreciate the
flexibility, and since most of my reads are with text files I love the
platform-independence granted by having the default option take care of line
endings without having to think about it.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 31 14:40:01 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:40:01 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list 
Message-ID: <200307311933.h6VJXWp00688@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Actually, before I downloaded and looked at RevNet, that is sort of what I thought it was.

I could see some possible advantages to doing something like that. Some interesting problems to work on too - anyone have any experience creating threading readers?

Can we also make it so that I get notification of new messages within the Revolution IDE? Even just a little new message icon in the interface bars...That would be cool...

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Richard Gaskin
>Why don't we just build in it Rev and use MySQL on
>the backend, maybe as a
>plugin?


From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Jul 31 14:42:02 2003
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:42:02 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
In-Reply-To: <3F295FEE.90407@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1C7F4798-C38E-11D7-B7A5-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Same here. ANYTHING that doesn't come to my email, I won't read. No 
matter how great it is. I'm on 5 or more lists at all times, and mix 
work, hobby, and personal email all in the same email client: if I had 
to double the effort to read one list, I probably would not subscribe. 
I'd probably check in and read archives once in a while, but my 
participation would be nil.

FWIW.

> I have to agree. Web boards are slow and tedious, they take far longer 
> to load into my browser than email takes to arrive, and I don't have 
> the time to click-and-load a bunch of folders and messages. If I get 
> busy, I never sign on. On the other hand, my email gets sorted as it 
> arrives in my inbox and I can quickly scan through the resulting list. 
> I am much less likely to participate in a web forum.



-------------------------------------
Brian Yennie
Chief Technology Officer
QLD Learning, LLC
(904)-997-0212
briany at qldlearning.com
--------------------------------------



From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Jul 31 14:42:38 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:42:38 2003
Subject: Visual Effects working strangely
Message-ID: <14F7539A-C38E-11D7-82DC-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

I'm not ready to report this as a bug because I may be doing something 
wrong. Consider these few lines of code contained within an image image 
object referencing a gif:

on mouseUp
	global theEffect -- holds the name of the effect we want
	hide me with visual theEffect
	wait 1 second
	show me
end mouseUp

I have a number of buttons whose labels are "wipe left", "wipe up", 
"wipe down", and the other effects that Rev contains. Here's an example:

on mouseUp
   global theEffect
   put the label of me into theEffect
end mouseUp

This should place the name of the effect into the var theEffect.

So what happens when all this runs? The first button I click on sets 
the effect but the effect does -not- change to anything else when I 
click on a different button. In other words: If I click on the "wipe 
left" button and then click the image object, I do get the proper 
effect. However, when I click on any other button, the effect does not 
change unless I close (& remove from memory) and then re-open the 
stack. Even then, the reults seem to be inconsistent.

I've tried clearing the var in each button script:

on mouseUp
   global theEffect
   put empty into theEffect
   put the label of me into theEffect
end mouseUp

but this has no effect. Sorry, didn't mean to pun.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Barry



From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 31 14:47:02 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:47:02 2003
Subject: Thanks!
Message-ID: <200307311940.h6VJenK02748@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Just wanted to send out a quick "Thank you!" to everyone who pictched in with ideas and help over the last week while I was working through all my document update issues with moving images around from stack to stack, and from files to images.

I just got it to all work right, and I feel pretty pleased right now.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Jul 31 14:49:03 2003
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:49:03 2003
Subject: documentation misspelling
In-Reply-To: <A778D55C-C37E-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com>
Message-ID: <BB4EBEEA.31B19%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

>> I'd love to report using the "bugzilla" page but when I search to see
>> if the bug was already reported, all I get is a very strange looking
>> html page - downloaded to my desktop! - telling me to "please stand
>> by". I'm using OSX 10.2.6 and Safari. Must I use IE?
> 
> Not Safari, not IE. Must use Mozilla/Netscape!! It's unbelievable but
> true. RR folks: how about updating the bugzilla page saying Mozilla is
> required to use the site?

How about Apple actually using the Mozilla code base as they claim to so we
don't have these issues?  ;)

What exactly are they doing to Mozilla that's causing so many problems with
so many otherwise well-tested sites (it breaks my Web-based banking as
well)?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Thu Jul 31 14:52:01 2003
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:52:01 2003
Subject: Bring a window to front
Message-ID: <200307311944.PAA03356@bright.unitz.ca>

actually with my Windows DLL (if it happens to work for you
;-) you do script which windows you want floating or not..
just pass the windowID and it's a global-floating window..

someone should be able to do something similiar on the
mac-side of things as it's a built-in feature in RB (there
may already be a HyperCard XCMD to do such a thing)..

-Sean

----- Original Message Follows -----
> (Anyway, I'd rather be able to script it myself than just
> to know  that a C-weilding programmer can manage it. ;-)


From edgore at shinra.com  Thu Jul 31 14:58:00 2003
From: edgore at shinra.com (Edwin Gore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:58:00 2003
Subject: Visual Effects working strangely
Message-ID: <200307311951.h6VJpWl07820@mmm1505.boca15-verio.com>

Weird. I tested this as well, and under Windows 2K I am seeing exactly the same behavior.

I even went farther and modified the scripts so that the buttons report the label of me && theEffect when clicked and the graphic reports theEffect when clicked, and all the variables have the right data in them.

Looks like a bug.

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Barry Levine <themacguy at macosx.com>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:35:03
>
>I'm not ready to report this as a bug because I may
>be doing something 
>wrong. Consider these few lines of code contained
>within an image image 
>object referencing a gif:
>
>on mouseUp
>	 global theEffect -- holds the name of the
>effect we want
>	 hide me with visual theEffect
>	 wait 1 second
>	 show me
>end mouseUp
>
>I have a number of buttons whose labels are "wipe
>left", "wipe up", 
>"wipe down", and the other effects that Rev
>contains. Here's an example:
>
>on mouseUp
>   global theEffect
>   put the label of me into theEffect
>end mouseUp
>
>This should place the name of the effect into the
>var theEffect.
>
>So what happens when all this runs? The first
>button I click on sets 
>the effect but the effect does -not- change to
>anything else when I 
>click on a different button. In other words: If I
>click on the "wipe 
>left" button and then click the image object, I do
>get the proper 
>effect. However, when I click on any other button,
>the effect does not 
>change unless I close (& remove from memory) and
>then re-open the 
>stack. Even then, the reults seem to be
>inconsistent.
>
>I've tried clearing the var in each button script:
>
>on mouseUp
>   global theEffect
>   put empty into theEffect
>   put the label of me into theEffect
>end mouseUp
>
>but this has no effect. Sorry, didn't mean to pun.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Thanks,
>Barry
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolu
>tion


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Jul 31 15:00:01 2003
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Jul 31 15:00:01 2003
Subject: Visual Effects working strangely
In-Reply-To: <14F7539A-C38E-11D7-82DC-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <BB4EC1A4.828A%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Barry Levine"  wrote:

> I'm not ready to report this as a bug because I may be doing something
> wrong. Consider these few lines of code contained within an image image
> object referencing a gif:
> 
> on mouseUp
> global theEffect -- holds the name of the effect we want
> hide me with visual theEffect
> wait 1 second
> show me
> end mouseUp
> 
> I have a number of buttons whose labels are "wipe left", "wipe up",
> "wipe down", and the other effects that Rev contains. Here's an example:
> 
> on mouseUp
>  global theEffect
>  put the label of me into theEffect
> end mouseUp
> 
> This should place the name of the effect into the var theEffect.
> 
> So what happens when all this runs? The first button I click on sets
> the effect but the effect does -not- change to anything else when I
> click on a different button. In other words: If I click on the "wipe
> left" button and then click the image object, I do get the proper
> effect. However, when I click on any other button, the effect does not
> change unless I close (& remove from memory) and then re-open the
> stack. Even then, the reults seem to be inconsistent.

Not sure if it's a bug (could be that Rev doesn't understand a two word
effect name stored in a variable) but there is a workaround:

   do "hide me with visual" && theEffect

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Jul 31 15:09:00 2003
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu Jul 31 15:09:00 2003
Subject: documentation misspelling
In-Reply-To: <BB4EBEEA.31B19%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E71E878F-C391-11D7-B7A5-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

I think you're confused- Apple's HTML support is based on KHTML, not 
Mozilla.
Whether those sites work under Linux/KDE is something I can't answer...

> How about Apple actually using the Mozilla code base as they claim to 
> so we
> don't have these issues?  ;)
>
> What exactly are they doing to Mozilla that's causing so many problems 
> with
> so many otherwise well-tested sites (it breaks my Web-based banking as
> well)?



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Jul 31 15:13:01 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 15:13:01 2003
Subject: documentation misspelling
In-Reply-To: <BB4EBEEA.31B19%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-781F70D4C39211D7B11500039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

On 7/31/03 Richard Gaskin wrote

>How about Apple actually using the Mozilla code base as they claim to so we
>don't have these issues?  ;)
>
>What exactly are they doing to Mozilla that's causing so many problems with
>so many otherwise well-tested sites (it breaks my Web-based banking as
>well)?

Safari is based on the KHTML rendering engine and not Mozilla.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From bfr at nwlink.com  Thu Jul 31 15:17:01 2003
From: bfr at nwlink.com (Bruce Robertson)
Date: Thu Jul 31 15:17:01 2003
Subject: [ANN] New MySQL tests stack
In-Reply-To: <879DE161-C22E-11D7-B2FE-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <BB4EC59E.13430%bfr@nwlink.com>

> I have fixed my MySQL test stack so that it can correctly handle Rev
> 2.0.2 and it's little database problem. The text of my web page has not
> yet changed to reflect the new version, but the download link will get
> you the new one. If you have been using my stack and have got Rev
> 2.0.2, download the new version. It allows you to list cursors with
> more than 22 records.

Sort of.

I tried it, it only connects to database "test" and will not connect to
other databases.



From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Jul 31 15:38:00 2003
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu Jul 31 15:38:00 2003
Subject: database bug in 2.0.2
References: <20030731185220.50912.qmail@web20416.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F297C74.F6C6BA59@easynet.fr>

Chris Sheffield a ?crit :
> 
> I'm having a problem and am just wondering if anyone
> else is experiencing anything similar.  I have a
> Valentina database that is storing some media content
> stored in BLOB fields (pictures, sounds, animations,
> etc.).  I am using the revDatabaseColumnNamed function
> to retrieve this data and save it to a tempory binary
> file.  Anyway, all this works perfectly in version
> 2.0.1 of Rev.  When I updated to 2.0.2, suddenly this
> function stopped working, but only on files that
> contain audio data.  The pictures can still be
> retrieved just fine.  Like I said, the same exact code
> runs perfectly in 2.0.1.  So something changed between
> the two versions.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas, or should I just go ahead
> and report it as a bug?
> 
> =====
> Chris Sheffield
> Read Naturally
> www.readnaturally.com
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Hi,

This seems to be on the desk and Tuviah is working on the needed rev's
2.0?2 patch.
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Serveurs d'applications et SGBDR (Web/PGI)
Penser et produire l'avantage comp?titif


From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Thu Jul 31 15:40:00 2003
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham)
Date: Thu Jul 31 15:40:00 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030731194819.00c49440@pop.wanadoo.fr>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:45:52 +0100, Keith Martin <keith at vortex.co.uk> wrote:

> >I'm not against the idea of a forum especially for following up past issues,
> >but I would not want to lose the list. There are still quite a few on dial
> >up access for whom the list provides a quick economical way of keeping up
> >with the debate offline.
>
>I'm not on dialup, but I have an observation. I have found that
>whenever I've been involved in a group discussion that has gone from
>email list to a supposedly 'easier to use' forum I've always stopped
>using it. However, that's just my own (arguably strange) behaviour...

I agree - Forums are harder to browse than you think, and those little 
'new' icons never seem to be quite telling the truth, do they? But for me 
the biggest crunch is the aforementioned not being able to work offline. I 
work in 2 locations, one with a permanently-connected cable modem running 
at about 512kbps, and one with a phone line that seldom achieves more than 
33kbps in practice. I just couldn't efficiently participate in any group 
that insisted on one being online all the time one was reading it. I do use 
Forums now (like the Adobe ones), but I just plunge in and get out as soon 
as possible when/if my problem is solved. With RunRev just reading 
everything that comes in is an education in itself. For example, I've just 
awarded myself the prize for least-informed RunRev lister, on the grounds 
that I don't even know what XML is. Somehow in 42 years of programming/IT 
it passed me by. But thanks to the list, I'm about to find out.

Graham


---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  




From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Thu Jul 31 15:40:45 2003
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham)
Date: Thu Jul 31 15:40:45 2003
Subject: 'Spreadsheet'  Woes...
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030731200413.00cb7f68@pop.wanadoo.fr>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:15:25 +0100, "Gary Rathbone" 
<gary.rathbone at btclick.com> wrote:


>I've got my field looking (well nearly) pretty much how I want.
>It's a field/table with Cell Formatting and Cell Editing. Looks like a
>spreadsheet...
>
>I'm looking for commands such as
>On EnterCell, On CloseCell, On ExitCell to initiate calculations on
>other cells
>And specific cell commands...

>Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated.

Sorry I can't help, but I too am waiting for a fully worked example which 
shows what the 'Table' object can do. I know there is some tricky 
frontscript code somewhere which controls the beast, but so far the docs 
don't reveal much. So this is just an "Amen, brother!" from another 
potential user. I have a feeling we shouldn't hold our breath on those 
cell-has-changed messages, but I'm still hoping. Otherwise the whole 
construct seems pretty limited IMHO.

Graham


---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  




From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 31 15:41:22 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 31 15:41:22 2003
Subject: Visual Effects working strangely
In-Reply-To: <14F7539A-C38E-11D7-82DC-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <47955D5E-C396-11D7-8062-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 01:35 PM, Barry Levine wrote:

> hide me with visual theEffect

In the primer shell I ended up with a handler like this:

on setEffect theEffect
   if theEffect is not empty then
     put "visual effect " & theEffect into effectCommand
     do effectCommand
   end if
end setEffect

I did this some time ago, so I'm not sure why I went this way, but I  
suspect I had problems similar to yours.

Dar Scott


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From alptex2 at orwell.net  Thu Jul 31 16:02:00 2003
From: alptex2 at orwell.net (T. R. Ponn)
Date: Thu Jul 31 16:02:00 2003
Subject: Dragging a line between points
Message-ID: <3F2978A1.6020306@orwell.net>

Hello all,

I've been fiddling with this all afternoon...and I have to be missing 
something obvious.  How do I click on one button (representing a "Pin" 
on a connector) and have a straight line follow the mouse until I click 
on another "pin"?  The visual effect would be to connect 2 points 
together electrically.  After the second click...a small graphic (of the 
first Pin) would appear next to the second pin and the line should 
disappear...it's usefullness ended.  The user would then just continue 
thru all the pins until all connections were made.

This seems simple, and I thought I had done this with HC yrs ago, but 
can't find the stack.

Thanks in adavnce for any light you can shed on this!

Best Regards,

Tim Ponn



From ericpeden at homemail.com  Thu Jul 31 16:05:01 2003
From: ericpeden at homemail.com (Eric Peden)
Date: Thu Jul 31 16:05:01 2003
Subject: documentation misspelling
In-Reply-To: <BB4EBEEA.31B19%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <A778D55C-C37E-11D7-99E8-000393529642@ARCplanning.com> <BB4EBEEA.31B19%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20030731210056.GB17950@cauldron.local.>

On Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 12:41:14PM -0700, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Not Safari, not IE. Must use Mozilla/Netscape!! It's unbelievable but
>> true. RR folks: how about updating the bugzilla page saying Mozilla is
>> required to use the site?
>
>How about Apple actually using the Mozilla code base as they claim to so we
>don't have these issues?  ;)
>
>What exactly are they doing to Mozilla that's causing so many problems with
>so many otherwise well-tested sites (it breaks my Web-based banking as
>well)?

As others have pointed out, Safari is not based on Mozilla's codebase.
However, a trick you might find useful is to enable Safari's debug menu
by typing into a terminal window:

    defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

and then restarting Safari. You can then use the "User Agent" sub-menu on
the newly visible "Debug" menu to have Safari masquerade as a different
browser. This addresses problems with many online banking websites, and
may work on the RunRev bugzilla page as well.

-- 
eric


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Jul 31 16:06:01 2003
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu Jul 31 16:06:01 2003
Subject: Fix to distribution builder available
In-Reply-To: <154CA903-C37C-11D7-BFA8-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
References: <154CA903-C37C-11D7-BFA8-003065430226@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <3F298314.4010805@hyperactivesw.com>

On 7/31/03 12:26 PM, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:

> So this has imho nothing to do with packaging and distribution process 
> in OSX, which will start after that.
> Its a bug in the new (updated) distribution builder.

Look inside the package contents. Inside, there is a MacOS folder. What 
is inside that?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Jul 31 16:21:01 2003
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Jul 31 16:21:01 2003
Subject: Dragging a line between points
In-Reply-To: <3F2978A1.6020306@orwell.net>
Message-ID: <EDD5DBD5-C39B-11D7-8062-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 02:14 PM, T. R. Ponn wrote:

> How do I click on one button (representing a "Pin" on a connector) and  
> have a straight line follow the mouse until I click on another "pin"?   
> The visual effect would be to connect 2 points together electrically.

Would the points property be in the right direction or are your  
problems beyond that?

Dar


************************************************************************ 
****
   Dar Scott Consulting    http://www.swcp.com/dsc/    Programming  
Services
************************************************************************ 
****



From HyperChris at aol.com  Thu Jul 31 16:31:01 2003
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Thu Jul 31 16:31:01 2003
Subject: 'Spreadsheet'  Woes...
Message-ID: <c3.3671a046.2c5ae2e3@aol.com>

>>I'm looking for commands such as On EnterCell, On CloseCell, On ExitCell to 
initiate calculations on other cells

Tables are a mysterious beast in Rev. There is a lot of power there but you 
are on your own to figure out how to engage it. Fortunately, this list is a 
salvation !  I suggest you download the archive and search for my email address. 
Jan and Sarah answered a number of questions that I posed which were similar 
to yours and they were very helpful!

My latest project which is a replacement for our Excel timecard is posted at 
...
     http://www.christophercomputers.com/rev/

Feel free to contact me off list. Good luck.


From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Thu Jul 31 16:58:01 2003
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Thu Jul 31 16:58:01 2003
Subject: 'Spreadsheet'  Woes...
Message-ID: <000101c357aa$a3f1de60$f500000a@qedscompaq>

>>Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated.

>Sorry I can't help, but I too am waiting for a fully worked example 
>which shows what the 'Table' object can do...but so far the docs 
>don't reveal much. So this is just an "Amen, brother!" from another 
>potential user.

Thanks Graham. It's highly frustrating knowing that some functionality
exists with the only option for results being trial and error. Apart
from using my limited Psychic powers to tap into the mindset of the
developers I can only rely on this list to ask others who have gone
before me.

Meanwhile I'll continue to waste countless hours experimenting with
commands I think *should* work, and play with syntax that produces
various results except those I want...

If I find anything useful I'll keep you posted.

Regards

Gary Rathbone





From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Jul 31 17:22:01 2003
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Jul 31 17:22:01 2003
Subject: documentation misspelling
In-Reply-To: <03Jul31.170847-0400_edt.218893-27381+5088@ams.ftl.affinity.com>
Message-ID: <01a201c357ae$c664d9d0$6801a8c0@LightningFlash>

Cool, Eric... thanks for the tip!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Eric Peden
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 4:01 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: documentation misspelling
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 12:41:14PM -0700, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >> Not Safari, not IE. Must use Mozilla/Netscape!! It's 
> unbelievable but 
> >> true. RR folks: how about updating the bugzilla page 
> saying Mozilla 
> >> is required to use the site?
> >
> >How about Apple actually using the Mozilla code base as they 
> claim to 
> >so we don't have these issues?  ;)
> >
> >What exactly are they doing to Mozilla that's causing so 
> many problems 
> >with so many otherwise well-tested sites (it breaks my Web-based 
> >banking as well)?
> 
> As others have pointed out, Safari is not based on Mozilla's 
> codebase. However, a trick you might find useful is to enable 
> Safari's debug menu by typing into a terminal window:
> 
>     defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1
> 
> and then restarting Safari. You can then use the "User Agent" 
> sub-menu on the newly visible "Debug" menu to have Safari 
> masquerade as a different browser. This addresses problems 
> with many online banking websites, and may work on the RunRev 
> bugzilla page as well.
> 
> -- 
> eric
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 




From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Jul 31 17:31:01 2003
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Jul 31 17:31:01 2003
Subject: Dragging a line between points
In-Reply-To: <3F2978A1.6020306@orwell.net>
Message-ID: <AB4C4E42-C3A5-11D7-AE12-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi T. R.,

> Hello all,
>
> I've been fiddling with this all afternoon...and I have to be missing 
> something obvious.  How do I click on one button (representing a "Pin" 
> on a connector) and have a straight line follow the mouse until I 
> click on another "pin"?  The visual effect would be to connect 2 
> points together electrically.  After the second click...a small 
> graphic (of the first Pin) would appear next to the second pin and the 
> line should disappear...it's usefullness ended.  The user would then 
> just continue thru all the pins until all connections were made.
>
> This seems simple, and I thought I had done this with HC yrs ago, but 
> can't find the stack.
>
> Thanks in adavnce for any light you can shed on this!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Tim Ponn

try this like i did ;-)

You need:

1 card
2 buttons "pin" and "endpin"
1 grc, set its layer to 1 or you cannot click the buttons ;-)


In the card script:

global ziehen

on mousemove x,y
   global ziehen  ## german for may drag ;-)
   if ziehen <> true then exit mousemove
   set the points of grc 1 to the loc of btn "pin" & CR & x & "," & y
end mousemove


Button "pin":

on mouseUp
   global ziehen
   put true into ziehen
    set the points of grc 1 to empty
   ## or you may see a flashing of the old grc...
   show grc 1
end mouseUp


Button "endpin"

on mouseUp
   global ziehen
   put false into ziehen
   hide grc 1
end mouseUp

Have fun :-)

Hope that helps...


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Jul 31 17:54:01 2003
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu Jul 31 17:54:01 2003
Subject: Visual Effects working strangely
In-Reply-To: <200307312033.QAA12861@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <005BC863-C3A9-11D7-B8A9-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Looks like Dar and Scott came up with the same solution - the "do" 
contruct. I'll use the (remarkably similar) code changes you both so 
thoughtfully provided. (Thank you!)

Now, whether this is a bug or just something about indirectly referring 
to vars with two words of which I need to be aware (and tape that code 
to my wall)...I'll leave that to the mavens. *grin*

Barry



From herz at ucsd.edu  Thu Jul 31 18:02:02 2003
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Thu Jul 31 18:02:02 2003
Subject: Dragging a line between points
References: <200307312033.QAA12803@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <028801c357b6$e57832b0$58bfef84@rkhpc1>

"T. R. Ponn" <alptex2 at orwell.net> wrote:

> I've been fiddling with this all afternoon...and I have to be missing
> something obvious.  How do I click on one button (representing a "Pin"
> on a connector) and have a straight line follow the mouse until I click

Well, I didn't exactly as you asked but this should get you started
(irritating technique I use on my students ;-)

Rich Herz
herz at ucsd.edu

# script of stack with a graphic "Pin 1"
global gWireEnds, gDrawWire, gWires

on mouseDown
  if the mouseLoc is within the rect of graphic "Pin 1" then
    put the mouseLoc into gWireEnds
    set the style of the templateGraphic to "line"
    # increment wire count
    if gWires is not a number then
      put 1 into gWires
    else
      add 1 to gWires
    end if
    put "wire" && gWires into tWire
    create graphic tWire
    put "true" into gDrawWire
  end if
end mouseDown

on mouseRelease
  # use mouseRelease since mouse may go up outside graphic
  if gDrawWire is "true" then
    put "false" into gDrawWire
    # create a new pin
  end if
end mouseRelease

on mouseMove
  if gDrawWire is "true" then
    put the mouseLoc into line 2 of gWireEnds
    put "wire" && gWires into tWire
    set the points of graphic tWire to gWireEnds
  end if
end mouseMove




From tuviah at runrev.com  Thu Jul 31 18:31:00 2003
From: tuviah at runrev.com (Tuviah Snyder)
Date: Thu Jul 31 18:31:00 2003
Subject: database bug in 2.0.2
References: <200307312033.QAA12861@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <04d201c357ba$f4e3cfd0$0100a8c0@user>

>This seems to be on the desk and Tuviah is working on the needed rev's
>2.0?2 patch.
Please, please report all problems as bugs to bugzilla to ensure that it
gets fixed.

Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought



From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Jul 31 19:08:01 2003
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu Jul 31 19:08:01 2003
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1701 - 16 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200307312033.QAA12861@www.runrev.com>
References: <200307312033.QAA12861@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bb4f5d1721d5@[66.81.140.254]>

>
>Message: 12
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:14:25 -0400
>From: "T. R. Ponn" <alptex2 at orwell.net>
>Organization: ALPTEX, Inc.
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Subject: Dragging a line between points
>Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
>Hello all,
>
>I've been fiddling with this all afternoon...and I have to be missing
>something obvious.  How do I click on one button (representing a "Pin"
>on a connector) and have a straight line follow the mouse until I click
>on another "pin"?  The visual effect would be to connect 2 points
>together electrically.  After the second click...a small graphic (of the
>first Pin) would appear next to the second pin and the line should
>disappear...it's usefullness ended.  The user would then just continue
>thru all the pins until all connections were made.
>
>This seems simple, and I thought I had done this with HC yrs ago, but
>can't find the stack.
>
>Thanks in adavnce for any light you can shed on this!
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Tim Ponn

Tim,

The following button script will get you started. It will draw the 
line from the button to the point at which you release the mouse, 
perhaps over a second button. You can use the second button to erase 
the line (set the points of graphic "tLine" to empty.)

local myName,tStart

on mouseDown

   if there is no graphic "theLine" then
     set the style of the templateGraphic to "line"
     create graphic theLine
   end if

   set the endArrow of the graphic "theLine" to "true"
   put the loc of me into tStart
   put the name of me into myName
end mouseDown

on mouseMove x,y
   if myName is "" then exit mouseMove
   put x,y into tEnd
   set the points of graphic "theLine" to tstart & return & tEnd
end mouseMove

on mouseUP
   put "" into myName
end mouseUP

on mouseRelease
   put "" into myName
end mouseRelease

Jim


From bvg at mac.com  Thu Jul 31 19:31:00 2003
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Thu Jul 31 19:31:00 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
In-Reply-To: <BB4EB7ED.31B10%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <861BCF5D-C3B6-11D7-9C6B-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

On Donnerstag, Jul 31, 2003, at 21:11 Europe/Zurich, Richard Gaskin 
wrote:

> Edwin Gore wrote:
>
>> Actually Dan, for me (the person who made that request) it's not 
>> being hosted
>> at RunRev that is important, so much as NOT hosted at a known 
>> messageboard
>> site like Yahoo Groups, or Prospero. I can't get to those while at 
>> work.
>
> Why don't we just build in it Rev and use MySQL on the backend, maybe 
> as a
> plugin?

Hmm yes a message board like structure presented within runrev, for 
easy viewing... I think I will do that.
I already got the pop part covered. Fortunately its a really easy and 
straight forward protocol. I will now send this mail for test purpose 
and try to build a hierarchically viewer. It will probably be something 
simple to present within 24 hours.

wisch me luck
bjoernke von gierke



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Jul 31 20:31:00 2003
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu Jul 31 20:31:00 2003
Subject: database bug in 2.0.2
In-Reply-To: <04d201c357ba$f4e3cfd0$0100a8c0@user>
Message-ID: <r02000000-1026-E6CAAFEFC3BE11D7B23600039376023C@[192.168.0.3]>

The major 2.0.2 bug is in bugzilla.  Sarah submitted it (# 219).  It doesn't look like any comments have been made by Rev however.  This is kind of a show stopper for 2.0.2.  You can't use the database functions for any project as you are limited to ~20 records.  I had to revert to 2.0.1 which seems to have some DB problems with Valentina (#191) but at least it is useable.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com

On 7/31/03 Tuviah Snyder wrote

>>This seems to be on the desk and Tuviah is working on the needed rev's
>>2.0?2 patch.
>Please, please report all problems as bugs to bugzilla to ensure that it
>gets fixed.
>
>Tuviah Snyder <tuviah at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
>Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From tac at mac.com  Thu Jul 31 21:18:00 2003
From: tac at mac.com (Takaaki Furukawa)
Date: Thu Jul 31 21:18:00 2003
Subject: Very easy to build a web database
Message-ID: <5120128.1059703908256.JavaMail.tac@mac.com>

I built a simple card-based online database with RunRev CGI. I put a tutorial and it
explains how easy it is to read/make changes to stacks from the web.

http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~tfurukaw/RunRev/dbindex.html

It could have taken weeks if I used PHP, PostgreSQL and Perl... I finished it
in simple HyperTalk-like scripts within a day(!!).

- Takaaaki Furukawa


From katir at hindu.org  Thu Jul 31 21:20:02 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu Jul 31 21:20:02 2003
Subject: Stack opens manually but scripts think it's corrupted?
In-Reply-To: <93ADD8C8-C30A-11D7-8043-0030656FB5D4@shafermedia.com>
Message-ID: <C35CA417-C3C5-11D7-8164-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

FYI, unless you really need to use the url syntax:

open stack "/Users/dshafer/Documents/ch5foo.rev"

will also work and requlres no sorting out between "file" and "binfile"




On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 05:53  PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

>>> go stack URL "file:/Users/dshafer/Documents/ch5foo.rev"
>>>
>>> Any clues?
>>
>> Use "binfile" instead of "file"
>>
> That did the trick. Thanks, Richard. Documentation bug to report to 
> Jeanne.



From katir at hindu.org  Thu Jul 31 21:58:01 2003
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu Jul 31 21:58:01 2003
Subject: Proposal - the use-revolution list
In-Reply-To: <3F295FEE.90407@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1753A205-C3CB-11D7-8164-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>

Second the motion to keep it as a list. We are missing one thing 
though: search capabilities for the past archives. Google doesn't seem 
to keep up with indexing the mail list archives and I really don't have 
time to read all these posts, but then when you need to know something 
chances are it has been well clarified here some time or other... I 
think 3 years ago Run Rev's list serve had search capabilities, but now 
it doesn't. So maybe there is a happy medium where the list is kept as 
it is but we get a more robust archive mechanism online? Or perhaps 
there is a way to make Google "believe" that Run Rev is worth indexing 
weekly. They index all our sites weekly...


On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 08:29  AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

>> I'm no expert on Web forums but have some observations.  IMO, a "best 
>> of
>> both worlds" solution would be to have a Web based board that sends 
>> email.
>> For myself, the appeal of email (as opposed to a forum) is that I 
>> don't have
>> to go searching for new messages, determine what I've read and what I
>> haven't, make sure I respond in the correct folder, etc.
>
> I have to agree. Web boards are slow and tedious, they take far longer 
> to load into my browser than email takes to arrive, and I don't have 
> the time to click-and-load a bunch of folders and messages. If I get 
> busy, I never sign on. On the other hand, my email gets sorted as it 
> arrives in my inbox and I can quickly scan through the resulting list. 
> I am much less likely to participate in a web forum.

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Gurudeva.org
www.Hindu.org



From bvg at mac.com  Thu Jul 31 22:03:00 2003
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Thu Jul 31 22:03:00 2003
Subject: I don't want "read from socket" to be blocking
In-Reply-To: <BB4EB7ED.31B10%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <A36DE6A4-C3CB-11D7-A063-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

I use read socket to access a pop3 server (email) I need to repeat 
certain commands several times. How can I make them non-blocking while 
still repeating them? I just don't get it :(

Script sample with two different repeat forms below:

on handler theID theData
   repeat with x = 1 to (the second word of theData) --number of messages
     write ( "TOP" && x && "0" & crlf  ) to socket server & ":110" --TOP 
0 =get only headers
     read from socket server & ":110" until crlf & "." & crlf --should 
be non-blocking but isn't
     if theMessage contains "Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com" 
then
       put x & "," after theList --gather all runrev messages
     end if
   end repeat
   repeat for each item theItem in theList --all messages from runrev
     write ( "UIDL" && theItem & crlf  ) to socket server & ":110" --get 
hash of message
     read from socket server & ":110" until crlf
     put word 2 to -1 of it into theHash
     if thehash is not among the items of the hashList of this stack 
then --not previously downloaded
       write ( "RETR" && theItem & crlf  ) to socket server & ":110" 
--get the whole message
       read from socket server & ":110" until crlf & "." & crlf with 
message "retrieved" -- does this work?
     end if
   end repeat
end handler



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Thu Jul 31 22:30:01 2003
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu Jul 31 22:30:01 2003
Subject: I don't want "read from socket" to be blocking
In-Reply-To: <A36DE6A4-C3CB-11D7-A063-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHMEAFDGAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Check out 'with message' to get a callback when the read is complete. Is
there a way to get the message number from the read info (theMessage)?

> I use read socket to access a pop3 server (email) I need to repeat
> certain commands several times. How can I make them non-blocking while
> still repeating them? I just don't get it :(
>
> Script sample with two different repeat forms below:
>
> on handler theID theData
>    repeat with x = 1 to (the second word of theData) --number of messages
>      write ( "TOP" && x && "0" & crlf  ) to socket server & ":110" --TOP
> 0 =get only headers
>      read from socket server & ":110" until crlf & "." & crlf --should
> be non-blocking but isn't
>      if theMessage contains "Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com"
> then
>        put x & "," after theList --gather all runrev messages
>      end if
>    end repeat
>    repeat for each item theItem in theList --all messages from runrev
>      write ( "UIDL" && theItem & crlf  ) to socket server & ":110" --get
> hash of message
>      read from socket server & ":110" until crlf
>      put word 2 to -1 of it into theHash
>      if thehash is not among the items of the hashList of this stack
> then --not previously downloaded
>        write ( "RETR" && theItem & crlf  ) to socket server & ":110"
> --get the whole message
>        read from socket server & ":110" until crlf & "." & crlf with
> message "retrieved" -- does this work?
>      end if
>    end repeat
> end handler
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Jul 31 22:35:00 2003
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Jul 31 22:35:00 2003
Subject: I don't want "read from socket" to be blocking
In-Reply-To: <A36DE6A4-C3CB-11D7-A063-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
References: <A36DE6A4-C3CB-11D7-A063-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bb4f8d14d1ea@[216.229.107.71]>

>I use read socket to access a pop3 server (email) I need to repeat 
>certain commands several times. How can I make them non-blocking 
>while still repeating them?

Add a callBackMessage, Bj?rnke,

Rev Dictionary:

If you specify a callbackMessage, the message is sent to the object 
whose script contains the read from socket command, as soon as the 
read is finished. This message has two parameters: the socketID and 
the data received from the socket.

If you don't specify a callbackMessage, the handler pauses until the 
read has been completed, or until the time set in the 
socketTimeoutInterval property has passed.

Here is an example from Jan Schenkel's libSTAMP.rev:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- HANDLER    : libSTAMP_sendConnectionID
-- PARAMETERS : pSocket = the socket of the target service point
-- PURPOSE    : send the local connection ID and awaits the remote 
connection ID
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

on libSTAMP_sendConnectionID pSocket
   add 1 to sNumOfRemoteServicePoints
   write ("100" && "MY-CONNECTION-ID=" & sNumOfRemoteServicePoints & 
return) to socket pSocket
   put sNumOfRemoteServicePoints into sRemoteServicePoints[pSocket,"LOCAL"]
   read from socket pSocket for 1 line with message "libSTAMP_readConnectionID"
end libSTAMP_sendConnectionID

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- HANDLER    : libSTAMP_readConnectionID
-- PARAMETERS : pSocket = the socket of the target service point
-- PURPOSE    : read the remote connection ID and start the 
connection check loop
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
on libSTAMP_readConnectionID pSocket, pData
[snip]
end libSTAMP_readConnectionID

-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Jul 31 22:47:00 2003
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu Jul 31 22:47:00 2003
Subject: I don't want "read from socket" to be blocking
In-Reply-To: <A36DE6A4-C3CB-11D7-A063-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CE7246EB-C3D1-11D7-B7A5-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

I believe you are looking for something like this:

This breaks every single read and write into it's own non-blocking 
code. What effect that has on our client (or the server) if things end 
up getting sent out of order, is, well, the peril of non-blocking code. 
You might consider only making the large retrieve calls non-blocking, 
blocking the brief writes, etc.

But this is the idea, using "with message" syntax.

on handler theID, theData
   repeat with x = 1 to (the second word of theData)
     write ( "TOP" && x && "0" & crlf  ) to socket server & ":110" with 
message "fetchHeader"
   end repeat
end handler

on fetchHeader server
      read from socket server & ":110" until crlf & "." & crlf with 
message "checkHeader"
end fetchHeader

on checkHeader server, theHeader
    if theHeader contains "Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com" 
then
       write ( "UIDL" && theData & crlf  ) to socket server & ":110" 
with message "processHeader"
    end if
end checkMessage

on processHeader server,theHeader
         read from socket server & ":110" until crlf with message 
"getHash"
end processHeader

on getHash server,theMessage
    put word 2 to -1 of theMessage into theHash
    if theHash is not among the items of the hashList of this stack then
       write ( "RETR" && theItem & crlf  ) to socket server & ":110" 
with message "processMessage"
    end if
end getHash

on processMessage server,fullMessage
         read from socket server & ":110" until crlf & "." & crlf with 
message "retrieved"
end processMessage

on retrieved server, theMessage
     answer "GOT IT::"&theMessage
end retrieved

> on handler theID theData
>   repeat with x = 1 to (the second word of theData) --number of 
> messages
>     write ( "TOP" && x && "0" & crlf  ) to socket server & ":110" 
> --TOP 0 =get only headers
>     read from socket server & ":110" until crlf & "." & crlf --should 
> be non-blocking but isn't
>     if theMessage contains "Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com" 
> then
>       put x & "," after theList --gather all runrev messages
>     end if
>   end repeat
>   repeat for each item theItem in theList --all messages from runrev
>     write ( "UIDL" && theItem & crlf  ) to socket server & ":110" 
> --get hash of message
>     read from socket server & ":110" until crlf
>     put word 2 to -1 of it into theHash
>     if thehash is not among the items of the hashList of this stack 
> then --not previously downloaded
>       write ( "RETR" && theItem & crlf  ) to socket server & ":110" 
> --get the whole message
>       read from socket server & ":110" until crlf & "." & crlf with 
> message "retrieved" -- does this work?
>     end if
>   end repeat
> end handler



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Jul 31 23:36:01 2003
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu Jul 31 23:36:01 2003
Subject: Fix to distribution builder available
In-Reply-To: <F62820A8-C372-11D7-A039-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEECDHAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Great Video. Not being a Mac person, something like this really helps
if/when I decide to port to Mac. Someone mentioned a Shell script which did
all of this? Couldn't someone build a RR stack which allowed you to fill in
some fields and automatically run the shell script? Seems like a great
plugin.

-Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Mark Talluto
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 11:21 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Fix to distribution builder available
>
>
>
> On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 06:49 AM, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:
> >>
> > Thanks a lot for that, i m not familiar with that, but I ll have a
> > look at it.
> >
> > Finally why I have bought rev and not MC some years ago... - the
> > easier UI it was... - was it that..?
> >
> >
> >
>
> Wolfgang,
>
> Here is a video I created that shows what you need to do.  I have found
> that version 2.0.1 of Rev does not correctly write the plst with your
> information.  So I edit it myself.  I then save the file for later use
> with later builds of my app.  I have one for each app.
>
> I hope this helps some.
>
> http://www.canelasoftware.com/mcmirror.html
>
> The video link is at the bottom of that page.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Mark Talluto
> http://www.canelasoftware.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>