From sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com  Tue Oct  1 03:55:01 2002
From: sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sylvain_Le_Gourri=E9rec?=)
Date: Tue Oct  1 03:55:01 2002
Subject: how to send email with revolution?
Message-ID: <001601c26927$576bd180$6601a8c0@sylvax>

I need some informations about that!

thanks
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From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  1 04:21:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Oct  1 04:21:00 2002
Subject: how to send email with revolution?
In-Reply-To: <001601c26927$576bd180$6601a8c0@sylvax>
Message-ID: <20021001091458.45824.qmail@web11902.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Sylvain,

If you're on a Mac and what you want to accomplish is
open the default email client and make it compose a
mail to a certain email address then simply do
  revGoURL "mailto:email.address at example.net"

If on the other hand, you're not running on a Mac or
want to do it all by yourself, then you should have a
look at the SMTP library that Shao Sean wrote.
  http://www.shaosean.tk

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wsier and more foolish
at the same time."  (De Rochefoucald)

--- Sylvain_Le_Gourri?rec
<sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com> wrote:
> I need some informations about that!
> 
> thanks


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From rolfk at vetvir.unizh.ch  Tue Oct  1 04:53:01 2002
From: rolfk at vetvir.unizh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans)
Date: Tue Oct  1 04:53:01 2002
Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Announcement:_Internet_Application_=93DNA_Artis?=
 =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?t=94_?=
Message-ID: <90FE3C41-D522-11D6-B26F-003065EEE22E@vetvir.unizh.ch>

Hello Everybody,

I made an Internet Application with Revolution 1.1.1.

The Application downloads compressed Stacks, unzips them, and displays 
them to the user.
There have been discussions about Internet Applications on this list, 
so I thought if one wants to have a look at an example, go to my web 
page.

URL: http://www.vetvir.unizh.ch/programs/


The Program is aimed at Molecular Biologists and is free for everyone 
;-)

Since English is not my mother tongue and you are already on my web 
page I would appreciate, if you have a look at the wording,
and let me know, where I can change a sentence around to make things 
clearer.


Program features:

- cross platform
- the downloaded modules have access counters for MacOSX/MacOS9 
Win/Linux platform
- the Oligo Tm module can speak


Questions:

- can everyone download the Application ?
- can I assume that every Windows PC has an Unzipper ?


Please send your comments off list:

mailto:rolfk at vetvir.unizh.ch


Regards
Rolf



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  1 05:05:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Oct  1 05:05:01 2002
Subject: FTP problem (Jan Schenkel)
In-Reply-To: <3D98E943.168DA6A8@poolcreative.com>
Message-ID: <20021001095846.88398.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Brendan,

This leads me to think that the problem is at the
source of the data: have you tried verifying that
there's actually something in the uploadData (such as:
answer the length of tUploadData) ?

If so, there could still be some control character in
there that messes things up, but I suggest that Dave
takes a look then...

Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish
at the same time."  (De Rochefoucald)

--- Brendan Bonsack <brendan at poolcreative.com> wrote:
> Hi Jan
> 
> Thanks for your persistence!  I am using the latest
> Download of RunRev (version 1.1.1). A text transfer
> works perfectly. I have
> pasted a typical log field below, and nothing looks
> particularly wrong, unless I'm missing something (I
> hope I am!). I have also
> played around with active/passive modes, but both
> yield the same result. The transfer succeeds, but
> the resulting file on the
> server is 0 bytes long. I am using the Starter Kit
> version of Revolution, but should this make a
> difference?
> 
> 
> -220 Serv-U FTP-Server v2.5k for WinSock ready...
> -331 User name okay, need password.
> -230 User logged in, proceed.
> -257 "/poolcreative" is current directory.
> -200 Type set to I.
> -200 PORT Command successful.
> -150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for
> testfile.gif.
> -226-Maximum disk quota limited to 50000 Kbytes
> -    Used disk quota 25862 Kbytes, available 24137
> Kbytes
> -226 Transfer complete.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Brendan

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From g.castre at free.fr  Tue Oct  1 06:46:01 2002
From: g.castre at free.fr (Guillaume CASTRE)
Date: Tue Oct  1 06:46:01 2002
Subject: how to send email with revolution? [HS]
In-Reply-To: <20021001091458.45824.qmail@web11902.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c2693f$55682560$6401a8c0@Guillaume>

Hello,

You have to write it :

La Rochefoucauld

Fran?ois, duc de La Rochefoucauld (1613-1680), moraliste fran?ais.
(french moralist)

Regards.

Guillaume CASTRE
<http://www.ideesnet.net>

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wsier and more foolish
at the same time."  (De Rochefoucald)
_

---
Message certifi? sans virus.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 21/08/2002
 



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  1 07:04:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Oct  1 07:04:01 2002
Subject: how to send email with revolution? [HS]
In-Reply-To: <000e01c2693f$55682560$6401a8c0@Guillaume>
Message-ID: <20021001115755.57068.qmail@web11902.mail.yahoo.com>

Bonjour Guillaume,

Of course you are right. It's actually a mistake by my
favourite band The Cure -- they put the quote on the
inlay of their CD "Wild Mood Swings" and I copied it
from there without checking it.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish
at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

--- Guillaume CASTRE <g.castre at free.fr> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> You have to write it :
> 
> La Rochefoucauld
> 
> Fran?ois, duc de La Rochefoucauld (1613-1680),
> moraliste fran?ais.
> (french moralist)
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Guillaume CASTRE
> <http://www.ideesnet.net>
> 
> Jan Schenkel.
> 
> "As we grow older, we grow both wsier and more
> foolish
> at the same time."  (De Rochefoucald)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From Doug_Ivers at lord.com  Tue Oct  1 08:00:01 2002
From: Doug_Ivers at lord.com (Ivers, Doug E)
Date: Tue Oct  1 08:00:01 2002
Subject: go recent
Message-ID: <E08533A454364A4C8B395EA007D1F42309D6F2@ntsrvcrd04.main.lord.com>

I've seen no replies on this topic.  No one has experience with this?
 
-- D 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ivers, Doug E 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:42 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: go recent



I gather from the documentation that "go back" is the same as "go recent" and "go forward" is the opposite of "go recent".

The problem I ran into is explained by way of example:  I hit the go back button X times, then I hit the go forward button X times (so far so good), then I hit the forward button again and nothing should happen, however it takes me to some other card.  Why?  How can I avoid this?

I also don't understand why the recentCards list changes when I go back -- regardless of the lockRecent property.  Since it changes, why isn't there a "recentCardsForward" list so I can know where "go forward" will go?  (I know I can use "lockScreen" and go and check the card, but that is a kludge.)

Do I have to set up a global and keep track of each "go back"?  Seems like Rev should provide this.


-- D 

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From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Tue Oct  1 08:08:01 2002
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Tue Oct  1 08:08:01 2002
Subject: imagedata must be on screen?
In-Reply-To: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCMECODDAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <0DCA4BB3-D1F3-11D6-A6CF-003065D52E8E@metascape.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020930235301.00a69ce8@inspiredlogic.com>

This was discussed a while back on the list, so you might check the 
archives for more detail, but as I recall:

image "whatever" references the underlying data that supplies the image. 
Hence, it is available only if the image is imported, but is available 
whether or not the image is currently onscreen. It is unaffected by 
resizing or rotating the image.

the imagedata of image "whatever" references the data displayed onscreen by 
the image. Hence, it is available only if the image is currently onscreen, 
but is available regardless of whether the image is imported or referenced. 
Since it is based on the displayed data, it reflects resizing and rotation.

gc

At 05:04 PM 9/27/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Klaus,
>
>also the
>
>"put img 1 of cd 1 of stack "t2" into img 1 of cd 1 of stack "t1""
>
>only seems to work if the image is internal and not a filename...
>hmmmm
>
>-chipp
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Tue Oct  1 08:08:05 2002
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Tue Oct  1 08:08:05 2002
Subject: [HELP] close a modal stack !
In-Reply-To: <3D9447D6.7080303@laposte.net>
References: <CA2BDC3F-D20B-11D6-92A0-003065D52E8E@metascape.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020930234357.00a69ce8@inspiredlogic.com>

You can also pop a contextual menu to change the mode of the stack 
directly, even when it is opened as a modal dialog. On a PC, hold down 
shift-control and right click. On a Mac, I think it is 
command-option-shift-click. Can anyone confirm?

gc

At 01:58 PM 9/27/2002 +0200, you wrote:
>>type this into the msg:
>>lock messages; toplevel "your modal stack"
>>If you set the modal on "openstack" or "preopenstack", this will work.
>>Explanation: "lock messages" supresses ALL handlers.
>>Then your stack will be opened as toplevel and you can fix it :-)
>
>Thanks, but i found an other solution :
>i use the "Find and Replace" with the option "All stacks in a folder", to 
>replace word "modal" with "open"
>
>Works anywhere :-)
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Tue Oct  1 08:08:08 2002
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Tue Oct  1 08:08:08 2002
Subject: Variable convention questions
In-Reply-To: <0F8D23AC-D21D-11D6-92A0-003065D52E8E@metascape.org>
References: <85256C41.004538AC.00@mail.mcc.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020930234937.00a69ce8@inspiredlogic.com>

On replacing repeat for each with filter -- I say this not to be annoying, 
but just because it amazes me -- filter actually isn't that much faster 
than repeat for each. Last time I checked, it was less than twice as fast. 
Not that you shouldn't use filter; just that in most cases repeat for each 
is fine.

gc




From wmb at internettrainer.com  Tue Oct  1 09:01:01 2002
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Tue Oct  1 09:01:01 2002
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #724 - 14 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200210011210.IAA13892@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5897FE32-D545-11D6-9F84-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Dienstag, Oktober 1, 2002, at 02:10  Uhr, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> The Application downloads compressed Stacks, unzips them, and displays
> them to the user.
> There have been discussions about Internet Applications on this list,
> so I thought if one wants to have a look at an example, go to my web
> page.
>
---
I v downloaded it. Very intersting . I would like the main menue 
smaller on the left side so that you dont have to click (drag) away 
every downloaded stack. Can we get one of the stacks too to see how you 
did this? That would be a nice example for us no-coder...

> The Program is aimed at Molecular Biologists and is free for everyone
> ;-)
>
> Since English is not my mother tongue and you are already on my web
> page I would appreciate, if you have a look at the wording,
> and let me know, where I can change a sentence around to make things
> clearer.

da kann ich leider nicht helfen, aber einen Tip zur Adresse h?tt ich 
noch. Zu Grund und Wald - ist ja nicht ganz so bekannt wie Z?rich oder 
Genf - da w?rd ich einfach f?r die nicht Mitteleurop?er auch noch 
Schweiz hinzuf?gen ;))

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?

INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From derek.huby at ntlworld.com  Tue Oct  1 11:00:01 2002
From: derek.huby at ntlworld.com (Derek Huby)
Date: Tue Oct  1 11:00:01 2002
Subject: Printing in Windows
Message-ID: <B9BF843C.D07%derek.huby@ntlworld.com>

Dear all,

Here's a strange one...

I'm developing a stack (in Rev 1.1, Windows 2000 Professional) where I need
to be able to print cards containing text fields. Now, at first I was
dismayed to find that text didn't print properly - it wasn't wrapping
properly at the right-hand edge of the fields. I checked out the docs, and
soon discovered the formatForPrinting property. Joy! All I had to do was set
this property to true for a stack during printing, and I got crisp, clear
print outs with properly wrapped text.

All seemed to be well. However, the occasional card would't print properly -
strange 'line breaks' in fields would appear every now and again. I've now
narrowed it down to the following recipe:

When formatForPrinting = true, a field will print correctly EXCEPT where it
contains an upper case 'G'. Any word containing 'G' causes the text to
'misflow' - the next word will be on the next line.

For example, "Getting married in Gretna Green" will look like this:

--
Getting
Married in Gretna
Green
--

(Told you it was strange.)

I'm probably doing something incredibly stupid, but any suggestions would be
helpful!

TIA,

Derek



From jeff at xors.com  Tue Oct  1 12:08:02 2002
From: jeff at xors.com (Jeff Graham)
Date: Tue Oct  1 12:08:02 2002
Subject: Supercard
Message-ID: <p05111702b9bf587f3cf5@[192.168.0.5]>

I want to convert a really old Supercard script and run it on 
Revolution, for multi-platform reasons.  Supercard is Version 1.6 
from 1991.  Has anyone successfully converted such a script to the 
latest Revolution?


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct  1 13:07:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct  1 13:07:01 2002
Subject: Supercard
References: <p05111702b9bf587f3cf5@[192.168.0.5]>
Message-ID: <006301c26973$e10ee340$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Jeff,

There are several people on this list that do conversions from HC/SC/etc. to
Rev (including myself). Most of SC's tokens are supported in Rev (although
there are some tweaks here and there). The main issues to look at are XCMDs
and XFCNs and how to rescript them using native Transcript.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Graham" <jeff at xors.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 8:54 AM
Subject: Supercard


> I want to convert a really old Supercard script and run it on
> Revolution, for multi-platform reasons.  Supercard is Version 1.6
> from 1991.  Has anyone successfully converted such a script to the
> latest Revolution?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From katir at hindu.org  Tue Oct  1 14:19:01 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Tue Oct  1 14:19:01 2002
Subject: Delete blank lines/No scroll change
Message-ID: <E4DC30D3-D571-11D6-98A8-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

Is there a simple way to delete lines in a list, such that a blank line 
does not remain afterwards and not throw the scroll of the  field back 
to zero?

put empty into line 11 of fld "inputList"  ## leaves a blank empty line

   put the clicktext & cr after fld "outputList"
   delete the clickline  ## leaves a blank line

Context: User is working on a mailing list... either deleting entries 
or moving entries to another field.. .in both cases we want the line 
that is clicked on to disappear and not leave a blank line in its 
place. If one runs a "replace (cr & cr) with cr in fld "inputList"  the 
scroll is set to zero

put the scroll of fld "inputList" into tPosition
replace (cr & cr) with cr in fld "inputList
set the scroll of fld "inputList" to tPosition

does work... but I was wondering if there is a way which would leave 
the scroll of the field untouched in the first place.

Thanks
Sivakatirswami



From RGould8 at aol.com  Tue Oct  1 15:41:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Tue Oct  1 15:41:01 2002
Subject: Anyone know how to set to use DHCP with Revolution?
Message-ID: <19f.9afbcaf.2acb610a@aol.com>

If I drag the Network Scripting file in Mac OS 9 to the Script Editor, I get 
a whole Applescript dictionary of commands to control the user's Networking 
preferences.   What I'd like to do is somehow get Revolution to talk to 
Applescript to then set the user's Network control panel to use DHCP.   
Perhaps there's a way to get Revolution to access this directly?

I've found the Network Scripting dictionary to be very confusing.   Is there 
a Networking guru on this list who can tell me what the secret commands are 
within that dictionary to set the user's network control panel to DHCP?   
Here's the vast array of commands:


Class TCPIP v4 configuration: A TCP/IP v4 configuration
Plural form:
     TCPIP v4 configurations
Elements:
     router address by numeric index, as a range of elements
     name server address by numeric index, as a range of elements
     search domain by numeric index, as a range of elements
Properties:
     <Inheritance>  configuration   -- See the class ?configuration? for 
more properties
     connecting via  Ethernet/MacIP/PPP   -- the port or connection method of 
this configuration...
     connecting via  string   -- ...or a port name   (may be locked)
     configuration method  BootP/DHCP/MacIP manual/MacIP 
server/manual/RARP/PPP server   -- the configuration method of this 
configuration (may be locked)
     IP address  string   -- the IP address of this configuration (may be 
locked)
     subnet mask  string   -- the IP subnet mask of this configuration (may 
be locked)
     implicit search start  string   -- the implicit starting search domain 
of this configuration (may be locked)
     implicit search end  string   -- the implicit ending search domain of 
this configuration (may be locked)
     DHCP client ID  string   -- applies only if the configuration method is 
DHCP (may be locked)
     MacIP server zone  string   -- only applies if ?connecting via? is 
MacIP (may be locked)
     uses IEEE8023  boolean   -- Does this configuration use the 802.3 
protocol? (may be locked)
     protocol  TCPIP v4   [r/o]   -- the protocol of this configuration (the 
constant ?TCPIP v4?)
     administration password  string   -- the password of this configuration 
(write only)
     user mode  basic/advanced/administration   -- the user mode of this 
configuration


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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct  1 15:54:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct  1 15:54:00 2002
Subject: Delete blank lines/No scroll change
References: <E4DC30D3-D571-11D6-98A8-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <007801c2698a$ffd70480$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Try:

  delete line (the hilitedLines of me) of me

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sannyasin Sivakatirswami" <katir at hindu.org>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:13 PM
Subject: Delete blank lines/No scroll change


> Is there a simple way to delete lines in a list, such that a blank line 
> does not remain afterwards and not throw the scroll of the  field back 
> to zero?
> 
> put empty into line 11 of fld "inputList"  ## leaves a blank empty line
> 
>    put the clicktext & cr after fld "outputList"
>    delete the clickline  ## leaves a blank line
> 
> Context: User is working on a mailing list... either deleting entries 
> or moving entries to another field.. .in both cases we want the line 
> that is clicked on to disappear and not leave a blank line in its 
> place. If one runs a "replace (cr & cr) with cr in fld "inputList"  the 
> scroll is set to zero
> 
> put the scroll of fld "inputList" into tPosition
> replace (cr & cr) with cr in fld "inputList
> set the scroll of fld "inputList" to tPosition
> 
> does work... but I was wondering if there is a way which would leave 
> the scroll of the field untouched in the first place.
> 
> Thanks
> Sivakatirswami
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct  1 15:59:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct  1 15:59:01 2002
Subject: Delete blank lines/No scroll change
References: <E4DC30D3-D571-11D6-98A8-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <007c01c2698b$9af0fb10$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Also, oddly enough:

  do "delete " & the clickLine

will work as well as 'delete line (the hilitedLines of me) of me', whereas:

  delete the clickLine 

leaves blanks.

This looks like a bug to me...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sannyasin Sivakatirswami" <katir at hindu.org>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:13 PM
Subject: Delete blank lines/No scroll change


> Is there a simple way to delete lines in a list, such that a blank line 
> does not remain afterwards and not throw the scroll of the  field back 
> to zero?
> 
> put empty into line 11 of fld "inputList"  ## leaves a blank empty line
> 
>    put the clicktext & cr after fld "outputList"
>    delete the clickline  ## leaves a blank line
> 
> Context: User is working on a mailing list... either deleting entries 
> or moving entries to another field.. .in both cases we want the line 
> that is clicked on to disappear and not leave a blank line in its 
> place. If one runs a "replace (cr & cr) with cr in fld "inputList"  the 
> scroll is set to zero
> 
> put the scroll of fld "inputList" into tPosition
> replace (cr & cr) with cr in fld "inputList
> set the scroll of fld "inputList" to tPosition
> 
> does work... but I was wondering if there is a way which would leave 
> the scroll of the field untouched in the first place.
> 
> Thanks
> Sivakatirswami
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct  1 17:11:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct  1 17:11:00 2002
Subject: Anyone know how to set to use DHCP with Revolution?
References: <19f.9afbcaf.2acb610a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008401c26995$fd416480$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Well,

I don't know how to set the DHCP, but here's some AppleScript code that will
*get* the configuration method using the Network Setup scripting addition...
perhaps you can use this as a start:

----------------------
set configMethod to ""
set configName to ""
set cfg to ""

tell application "Network Setup Scripting"
  open database
  set config to current configuration set
  repeat with i from 1 to count of configuration of config
    if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration) then
      set cfg to configuration i of config
      set configName to name of config  -- so you can check the name to see
if it's the right one
      exit repeat
    end if
  end repeat
  set configMethod to configuration method of cfg
  close database

  -- Now, show it in the results window
  get "Config name: " & configName & ", Method: " & configMethod
end tell
------------------------
When I ran this on my Mac, I got:

    Config name: My Network Settings, Method: manual

(which is all correct, BTW).

Note that this stops as soon as it hits a TCPIP configuration method (and
you may have many defined in the TCP/IP control panel), so you may need to
check "configName" to see if it is the right one before going on. Also, keep
in mind that configurations can be locked (I don't know how to get around
that at the moment)...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/






----- Original Message -----
From: <RGould8 at aol.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 3:35 PM
Subject: Anyone know how to set to use DHCP with Revolution?


If I drag the Network Scripting file in Mac OS 9 to the Script Editor, I get
a whole Applescript dictionary of commands to control the user's Networking
preferences.   What I'd like to do is somehow get Revolution to talk to
Applescript to then set the user's Network control panel to use DHCP.
Perhaps there's a way to get Revolution to access this directly?

I've found the Network Scripting dictionary to be very confusing.   Is there
a Networking guru on this list who can tell me what the secret commands are
within that dictionary to set the user's network control panel to DHCP?
Here's the vast array of commands:


Class TCPIP v4 configuration: A TCP/IP v4 configuration
Plural form:
     TCPIP v4 configurations
Elements:
     router address by numeric index, as a range of elements
     name server address by numeric index, as a range of elements
     search domain by numeric index, as a range of elements
Properties:
     <Inheritance>  configuration   -- See the class ?configuration? for
more properties
     connecting via  Ethernet/MacIP/PPP   -- the port or connection method
of
this configuration...
     connecting via  string   -- ...or a port name   (may be locked)
     configuration method  BootP/DHCP/MacIP manual/MacIP
server/manual/RARP/PPP server   -- the configuration method of this
configuration (may be locked)
     IP address  string   -- the IP address of this configuration (may be
locked)
     subnet mask  string   -- the IP subnet mask of this configuration (may
be locked)
     implicit search start  string   -- the implicit starting search domain
of this configuration (may be locked)
     implicit search end  string   -- the implicit ending search domain of
this configuration (may be locked)
     DHCP client ID  string   -- applies only if the configuration method is
DHCP (may be locked)
     MacIP server zone  string   -- only applies if ?connecting via? is
MacIP (may be locked)
     uses IEEE8023  boolean   -- Does this configuration use the 802.3
protocol? (may be locked)
     protocol  TCPIP v4   [r/o]   -- the protocol of this configuration (the
constant ?TCPIP v4?)
     administration password  string   -- the password of this configuration
(write only)
     user mode  basic/advanced/administration   -- the user mode of this
configuration





From ttasovac at Princeton.EDU  Tue Oct  1 17:21:02 2002
From: ttasovac at Princeton.EDU (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Tue Oct  1 17:21:02 2002
Subject: hilite, double-click etc.
In-Reply-To: <v03130307b9bd2919a311@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <B9BF95C0.25EB%ttasovac@princeton.edu>

Dear Jeanne,

Thanks for the suggestion.

Using this code, however, I get an execution error with

Error description:  do: error in statement

--------------------
if storedHilitedChunk is not empty \
--------------------
Value: storedHilitedChunk


I'm not sure what this means.

Toma

On 29.09.2002 18:06, "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <jeanne at runrev.com> wrote:
 
> Here's a quickie version of the highlighting code in the documentation:
> 
> ----------
> local storedHilitedChunk
> 
> on mouseMove
> -- first unhighlight the "old" phrase if necessary:
> if storedHilitedChunk is not empty \
>     and storedHilitedChunk is not the mouseChunk then
>   do "set the backgroundColor of" && \
>       storedHilitedChunk && "to empty"
>   put empty into storedHilitedChunk
> end if
> -- highlight if the text under the mouse is linked:
> if the mouseChunk is not empty \
>     and "link" is in the textStyle of the mouseChunk then
>   set the backgroundColor of the mouseChunk to "yellow"
>   -- saved for later unhighlighting
>   put the mouseChunk into storedHilitedChunk
> end if
> pass mouseMove
> end mouseMove
> 
> on mouseLeave
> -- unhighlight any currently highlighted text:
> if storedHilitedChunk is not empty then
>   do "set the backgroundColor of" && \
>      storedHilitedChunk && "to empty"
>   put empty into storedHilitedChunk
> end if
> pass mouseLeave
> end mouseLeave
> ----------
> 
> --
> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
> Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
> http://www.runrev.com/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

_____________________________________
Toma Tasovac
Princeton University
Department of Comparative Literature
318 East Pyne
Princeton, NJ 08544

ttasovac at princeton.edu
ttasovac at post.harvard.edu



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Oct  1 17:30:00 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Oct  1 17:30:00 2002
Subject: Delete blank lines/No scroll change
In-Reply-To: <a05111a65b9bfa6211507@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <6AD968CD-D58C-11D6-BB4F-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

A while ago on the list, someone (possibly Geoff) suggested a brilliant 
solution to blank lines:

	filter field "whatever" with "*?"

I have a permanent problem with adding lines to a field. Do I need to 
add a linefeed before the new line? If I add a linefeed after each line 
(as I used to do in HyperCard) then list fields have an empty 
selectable line at at the end. What if the field is empty? and so on...

Now I just add linefeeds whenever they might be needed and finish by 
doing the filter command. It is very ast and strips out all empty lines.

Sarah


On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, at 05:21  am, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami 
wrote:

> Is there a simple way to delete lines in a list, such that a blank 
> line does not remain afterwards and not throw the scroll of the  field 
> back to zero?
>
> put empty into line 11 of fld "inputList"  ## leaves a blank empty line
>
>   put the clicktext & cr after fld "outputList"
>   delete the clickline  ## leaves a blank line
>
> Context: User is working on a mailing list... either deleting entries 
> or moving entries to another field.. .in both cases we want the line 
> that is clicked on to disappear and not leave a blank line in its 
> place. If one runs a "replace (cr & cr) with cr in fld "inputList"  
> the scroll is set to zero
>
> put the scroll of fld "inputList" into tPosition
> replace (cr & cr) with cr in fld "inputList
> set the scroll of fld "inputList" to tPosition
>
> does work... but I was wondering if there is a way which would leave 
> the scroll of the field untouched in the first place.
>
> Thanks
> Sivakatirswami
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From MFitz53 at cs.com  Tue Oct  1 19:15:01 2002
From: MFitz53 at cs.com (MFitz53 at cs.com)
Date: Tue Oct  1 19:15:01 2002
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #726 - 8 msgs
Message-ID: <f5.22faccb2.2acb92f9@cs.com>

In a message dated 10/1/02 6:19:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sannyasin Sivakatirswami" <katir at hindu.org>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:13 PM
> Subject: Delete blank lines/No scroll change
> 
> 
> > Is there a simple way to delete lines in a list, such that a blank line 
> > does not remain afterwards and not throw the scroll of the  field back 
> > to zero?
> > 
> 

Being new to RR and not yet up to speed, I cannot say with certainty this 
will work in your case.
 But I had the same problem with empty lines in a field after I had deleted 
them, and someone came to the rescue with this:
                            filter field "yourfield" with "*?"
 This eliminated my problem. I hope it helps with yours.

mike
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From ttasovac at Princeton.EDU  Tue Oct  1 20:57:01 2002
From: ttasovac at Princeton.EDU (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Tue Oct  1 20:57:01 2002
Subject: hilite, double-click etc.
In-Reply-To: <v03130307b9bd2919a311@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <B9BFC7F4.25F0%ttasovac@princeton.edu>

Now it's working... Dunno what I did wrong.  Please disregard my previous
mail.  

On 29.09.2002 18:06, "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <jeanne at runrev.com> wrote:

> local storedHilitedChunk
> 
> on mouseMove
> -- first unhighlight the "

 



From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Oct  1 23:56:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Oct  1 23:56:01 2002
Subject: hello
Message-ID: <5870F08C-D5C2-11D6-AAEC-000393529642@mindlube.com>

Howdy, The boss is giving me a shot at moving the project from 
Realbasic to Revolution. I may be asking a *lot* of questions in the 
next few days. Bear with me!

My Realbasic app is 50 screens and 12K lines of code. More apps are in 
the works. Wish me luck. Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi  Wed Oct  2 00:05:01 2002
From: Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Esa_Kivel=E4?=)
Date: Wed Oct  2 00:05:01 2002
Subject: VS: hello
Message-ID: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E2F@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>


> -----Alkuper?inen viesti-----
> L?hett?j?: Alex Rice [mailto:alex at mindlube.com]
> L?hetetty: 2. lokakuuta 2002 7:50
> Vastaanottaja: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Aihe: hello
> 
> 
> Howdy, 

Greetings from Finland :-)

> My Realbasic app is 50 screens and 12K lines of code. More 
> apps are in 
> the works. Wish me luck. Thanks,

Good luck! *Thumbs up* :-)

EsaK 


From kee at kagi.com  Wed Oct  2 00:58:01 2002
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Wed Oct  2 00:58:01 2002
Subject: hello
In-Reply-To: <5870F08C-D5C2-11D6-AAEC-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <88D956F5-D5CA-11D6-8A3C-003065F25CD4@kagi.com>

On Tuesday, Oct 1, 2002, at 21:49 US/Pacific, Alex Rice wrote:

> Howdy, The boss is giving me a shot at moving the project from 
> Realbasic to Revolution. I may be asking a *lot* of questions in the 
> next few days. Bear with me!
>
> My Realbasic app is 50 screens and 12K lines of code. More apps are in 
> the works. Wish me luck. Thanks,

I was looking for a new environment now that Hypercard and Mac OS X 
don't play well together. The default beginner programming environment 
that everyone was leaning me towards was RealBasic. I watched the 
RealBasic demo and the Revolution demo at WWDC. (Geoff Canyon did a 
great job.) I was sitting with people who write a lot of code, probably 
code you have run or are running today. They knew I was looking for a 
new environment and had recommended RealBasic. After the two demos, in 
their mind there was no comparison, they were going to start 
recommending Revolution for anyone starting out on a new programming 
single user development system.

So I think you are making a good choice.

Good luck.

Kee Nethery



From joe.gardner at nwa.com  Wed Oct  2 02:08:01 2002
From: joe.gardner at nwa.com (Gardner, Joseph A)
Date: Wed Oct  2 02:08:01 2002
Subject: Weird Output from revPrintField
Message-ID: <AF45F70949BC0345941B805B32299702015719DE@FMMSPJ35.pad.nwa.com>

Hello folks. I've searched my own archives of the list for a mention of this problem, but haven't found anything. I have a simple button with the following script:

  on mouseUp
    revPrintField ("field" && quote & "FileContents" & quote)
  end mouseUp

The contents of the field "FileContents" is a single line: This is text file 1.

When this button is pressed the printer (a networked HP LaserJet 4050) spits out the following:

This is text






file 1.

Anyone have any idea why this is happening? It gets even worse with longer field content. A 10-line field can print 7 or 8 pages! The text as printed is normal size. I'm running this from a Dell GX110 with Windows2000. I've tried all the other command iterations in the Rev documentation including all the revPrintText possibilities. They all produce the same spaced-out output.

Appreciate any suggestions and/or comments. And yes, I've also tried inserting the old revShowPrintDialog command in front of the revPrintField command, but that never does anything even with both options set to true.

joe.


From jeff at xors.com  Wed Oct  2 02:29:01 2002
From: jeff at xors.com (Jeff Graham)
Date: Wed Oct  2 02:29:01 2002
Subject: Supercard
In-Reply-To: <006301c26973$e10ee340$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <p05111702b9bf587f3cf5@[192.168.0.5]>
 <006301c26973$e10ee340$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <p05111701b9bfb3e7b16b@[192.168.0.5]>

I was hoping for a 90% automatic conversion, 10% hand-tweaking, that 
kind of thing.  When you say people do conversions, do you mean as a 
chargeable service?

I've tried Revolution help, it suggests I need to use a SIF exporter 
tool.  This fails on the file.

>Jeff,
>
>There are several people on this list that do conversions from HC/SC/etc. to
>Rev (including myself). Most of SC's tokens are supported in Rev (although
>there are some tweaks here and there). The main issues to look at are XCMDs
>and XFCNs and how to rescript them using native Transcript.
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeff Graham" <jeff at xors.com>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 8:54 AM
>Subject: Supercard
>
>
>>  I want to convert a really old Supercard script and run it on
>>  Revolution, for multi-platform reasons.  Supercard is Version 1.6
>>  from 1991.  Has anyone successfully converted such a script to the
>>  latest Revolution?
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  use-revolution mailing list
>>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Wed Oct  2 03:29:01 2002
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (Ron)
Date: Wed Oct  2 03:29:01 2002
Subject: Supercard
In-Reply-To: <p05111701b9bfb3e7b16b@[192.168.0.5]>
Message-ID: <B9C0DC3E.93A1%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Jeff

Have you tried updating the 1.6 SC project using the current version of SC
(I'd try 3.6 first, not the v4 beta that is current), then try the Rev to SC
converter. HTH

Ron


> From: Jeff Graham <jeff at xors.com>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:24:26 +0100
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Supercard
> 
> I was hoping for a 90% automatic conversion, 10% hand-tweaking, that
> kind of thing.  When you say people do conversions, do you mean as a
> chargeable service?
> 
> I've tried Revolution help, it suggests I need to use a SIF exporter
> tool.  This fails on the file.



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Wed Oct  2 03:48:01 2002
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (malte brill)
Date: Wed Oct  2 03:48:01 2002
Subject: Quicktime VR: Prevent user navigation
Message-ID: <B9C07DF0.6C5%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi there.
I imported a small VR panorama movie. I?m able to navigate through it via
script. So far so good. But how can I prevent user interaction with the
Player? I tried setting the alwaysbuffer to true, set it to false in a
handler, change the pan and afterwards set the alwaysbuffer to true again.
No user interaction with the player anymore, but flickers. :-(
When I add lock screen/ unlock screen flickering is gone, but that one uses
to much system time I guess, because I?m not able to select the buttons on
my card anymore.

Any suggestions?

regards

Malte



From DVGlasgow at aol.com  Wed Oct  2 04:10:01 2002
From: DVGlasgow at aol.com (DVGlasgow at aol.com)
Date: Wed Oct  2 04:10:01 2002
Subject: time limited demo
Message-ID: <1ba.6f76db1.2acc1044@aol.com>

Ages ago I asked if there was any way to set up a time limited standalone 
demo without using an external file.  Phil Jimmieson contacted me off list to 
suggest I obtain the date created from the 'detailed files'.  I finally tried 
it and it works fine - thanks Phil.  All you do is, in an openstack handler 
in the splashscreen/standalone, find the line of the detailed files relating 
to the standalone itself.  Item 4 is the date created.  Work out the days 
elapsed and bobs your uncle.  I now have a 10 day demo and a 12 month license 
version, each with a 7 day countdown to expiry reminder to pay me some money.

The nice thing is you don't have to set the expiry everytime you build, or 
worry about a secret file somewhere.  The bad thing is that you need to build 
for each customer.  Since I produce very small numbers and build for each 
copy anyway, this is no problem.

Of course, users could set back the clock on their machine, but I timestamp 
all output which in forensic assessment (which is what I do) would render a 
false date serious professional misconduct - much more scary than 
unauthorised use of software.

The script would be a breeze for all the scripting gurus out there, but if 
any apprentice gurus want to take a look at the script, contact me off list - 
it has a couple of twists I didn't mention above.


Best wishes,

David Glasgow
Home/ forensic assessments --> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/dvglasgow/">
DVGlasgow </A>
Courses --> <A HREF="http://www.i-Psych.co.uk">i-Psych</A>


From alex_rice at arc.to  Wed Oct  2 04:19:01 2002
From: alex_rice at arc.to (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  2 04:19:01 2002
Subject: upgrade from SBE to Pro?
Message-ID: <4E64AF09-D58E-11D6-AC8C-000393529642@arc.to>

Sorry to bring this up on list, but I didn't see it on the site... Is 
there an upgrade available from SBE to Pro versions of RunRev? Just 
want to know what our costs will be if we need to move from SBE to Pro 
in the future.

TIA

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From kevin at runrev.com  Wed Oct  2 04:29:01 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Wed Oct  2 04:29:01 2002
Subject: upgrade from SBE to Pro?
In-Reply-To: <4E64AF09-D58E-11D6-AC8C-000393529642@arc.to>
Message-ID: <B9C0798C.B238%kevin@runrev.com>

On 1/10/02 11:37 pm, Alex Rice <alex_rice at arc.to> wrote:

> Sorry to bring this up on list, but I didn't see it on the site... Is
> there an upgrade available from SBE to Pro versions of RunRev? Just
> want to know what our costs will be if we need to move from SBE to Pro
> in the future.

You can upgrade just by paying the difference in price.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Oct  2 05:33:01 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Oct  2 05:33:01 2002
Subject: time limited demo
In-Reply-To: <1ba.6f76db1.2acc1044@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEPGCJAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Watch out that the user doesn't put the date back on their computer. Then
they get an unlimited free license. There are people around that also have
dates pre-2000 because of code that was never fixed.

Monte
>
> Ages ago I asked if there was any way to set up a time limited standalone
> demo without using an external file.  Phil Jimmieson contacted me
> off list to
> suggest I obtain the date created from the 'detailed files'.  I
> finally tried
> it and it works fine - thanks Phil.  All you do is, in an
> openstack handler
> in the splashscreen/standalone, find the line of the detailed
> files relating
> to the standalone itself.  Item 4 is the date created.  Work out the days
> elapsed and bobs your uncle.  I now have a 10 day demo and a 12
> month license
> version, each with a 7 day countdown to expiry reminder to pay me
> some money.
>
> The nice thing is you don't have to set the expiry everytime you
> build, or
> worry about a secret file somewhere.  The bad thing is that you
> need to build
> for each customer.  Since I produce very small numbers and build for each
> copy anyway, this is no problem.
>
> Of course, users could set back the clock on their machine, but I
> timestamp
> all output which in forensic assessment (which is what I do)
> would render a
> false date serious professional misconduct - much more scary than
> unauthorised use of software.
>
> The script would be a breeze for all the scripting gurus out
> there, but if
> any apprentice gurus want to take a look at the script, contact
> me off list -
> it has a couple of twists I didn't mention above.
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> David Glasgow
> Home/ forensic assessments --> <A
> HREF="http://members.aol.com/dvglasgow/">
> DVGlasgow </A>
> Courses --> <A HREF="http://www.i-Psych.co.uk">i-Psych</A>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kevin at runrev.com  Wed Oct  2 05:40:01 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Wed Oct  2 05:40:01 2002
Subject: Printing in Windows
In-Reply-To: <B9BF843C.D07%derek.huby@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <B9C0870A.B23E%kevin@runrev.com>

On 1/10/02 5:56 pm, Derek Huby <derek.huby at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Here's a strange one...
> 
> I'm developing a stack (in Rev 1.1, Windows 2000 Professional) where I need
> to be able to print cards containing text fields. Now, at first I was
> dismayed to find that text didn't print properly - it wasn't wrapping
> properly at the right-hand edge of the fields. I checked out the docs, and
> soon discovered the formatForPrinting property. Joy! All I had to do was set
> this property to true for a stack during printing, and I got crisp, clear
> print outs with properly wrapped text.
> 
> All seemed to be well. However, the occasional card would't print properly -
> strange 'line breaks' in fields would appear every now and again. I've now
> narrowed it down to the following recipe:
> 
> When formatForPrinting = true, a field will print correctly EXCEPT where it
> contains an upper case 'G'. Any word containing 'G' causes the text to
> 'misflow' - the next word will be on the next line.
> 
> For example, "Getting married in Gretna Green" will look like this:
> 
> --
> Getting
> Married in Gretna
> Green
> --
> 
> (Told you it was strange.)
> 
> I'm probably doing something incredibly stupid, but any suggestions would be
> helpful!

Try upgrading the printer drivers to the latest version.  If this is still
happening reliably, please send a report to support at runrev.com together with
a stack, and all details about your system and printer.

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Oct  2 09:33:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Oct  2 09:33:01 2002
Subject: Collision detection: a comparison.
In-Reply-To: <B9BDBD6E.6B1%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <E1B98C66-D612-11D6-B8BE-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Monday, September 30, 2002, at 01:35 AM, malte brill wrote:

> That sounds very interesting, as it is what I am trying to do. Do 
> you mind
> giving me some pseudo-code, as I still loose hair on it.

OK.  You caught me at a time when I'm up to my neck in alligators, 
but I'm pleased to give it a try.

> How would I define
> these rectangles for usage with the pixel method?

Define them relative to the image to which they apply.  Use the Rev 
way to represent rectangles (left, top, right, bottom); see the 
rectangle property.  I think the Rev origin is the upper left.  
Consider this to be a pair of points or vectors.  Represent a list 
of rectangles as a rectangle in each line.

> I still haven?t been
> working much with custom properties, and I think I still don?t get 
> the idea.

Others can better advise you.


Pseudo-code:

Every image has a list of subrects such that they (typically) do 
not overlap and they approximate the shape of the picture in the 
image.

Two images overlap pictures if their rectangles overlap and they 
overlap internally.  (Test that "their rectangles overlap" first 
and return false if false.)

Two images overlap internally if any subrect of the second, 
converted to the coordinate system of the first, overlaps with any 
subrect of the first.  (Optional:  ...and the two subrects have a 
pixel overlap.)

The subrectable of one image converted to the coordinate system of 
another image is its rectangle with each corner increased by the 
offset of the second image to the first.

The offset of one image to another is its reference corner less 
that of the other.  (I think the corner is left, top.)

Two rectangles overlap if the max of the tops is less than the min 
of the bottoms and the max of the lefts is less than the min of the 
rights.

A subrect of one image and the subrect of another image have a 
pixel overlap if... (left to later; needed only if optional part 
above is used)


I hope this helps; it seems to be more pseudo than code.

Dar Scott



From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  2 09:38:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  2 09:38:01 2002
Subject: Rev on Mac OS 10.2 ("Jaguar")
In-Reply-To: <9C6BCF5A-BF87-11D6-A302-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <950FCE68-D613-11D6-BDCC-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Tuesday, September 3, 2002, at 08:34  PM, Sarah wrote:

> It's all due to Jaguar's  Appearance Manager. Set the Look & Feel to 
> Mac OS emulated during editing and you won't get these crashes. 
> Presumably the next version of Rev will be updated to co-exist with 
> the new version of Appearance Manager.

Is there a way to get Rev to save the "Look & Feel" IDE setting across 
sessions and or projects? It doesn't seem to be a preference. Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct  2 09:46:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct  2 09:46:00 2002
Subject: Supercard
References: <p05111702b9bf587f3cf5@[192.168.0.5]> <006301c26973$e10ee340$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom> <p05111701b9bfb3e7b16b@[192.168.0.5]>
Message-ID: <001001c26a21$00d80fa0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Jeff,

> I was hoping for a 90% automatic conversion, 10% hand-tweaking, that
> kind of thing.  When you say people do conversions, do you mean as a
> chargeable service?

Yes. And depending on your skill level and the amount of time you can invest
in this, it may or may not be a cost effective option.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Oct  2 10:01:00 2002
From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Wed Oct  2 10:01:00 2002
Subject: Quicktime VR: Prevent user navigation
In-Reply-To: <B9C07DF0.6C5%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <E0D2ADB3-D616-11D6-BC28-000393853DBC@jpl.nasa.gov>

Malte,

You could put an invisible button(s) over the player which would 
intercept mouse clicks and add buttons yourself to control the player.

Bill Vlahos

On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, at 01:41  AM, malte brill wrote:

> Hi there.
> I imported a small VR panorama movie. I?m able to navigate through it 
> via
> script. So far so good. But how can I prevent user interaction with the
> Player? I tried setting the alwaysbuffer to true, set it to false in a
> handler, change the pan and afterwards set the alwaysbuffer to true 
> again.
> No user interaction with the player anymore, but flickers. :-(
> When I add lock screen/ unlock screen flickering is gone, but that one 
> uses
> to much system time I guess, because I?m not able to select the 
> buttons on
> my card anymore.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> regards
>
> Malte
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Oct  2 10:02:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Oct  2 10:02:01 2002
Subject: Collision detection: a comparison.
In-Reply-To: <B9BDBD6E.6B1%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <D869CED7-D616-11D6-B8BE-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Monday, September 30, 2002, at 01:35 AM, malte brill wrote:

> thanks for the leg up. Indeed, I checked the whole data after 
> every move,
> silly me.

The more I think about this, try optimizing a simple pixel overlap 
in the overlapped region of the two images.  That may be enough.  A 
quick single pixel test might be to call them overlapped if both 
are after "z"; that avoids conversion and math.  Optimize the 
subrow comparison.

You might need to go to the subrect method we talked about, but 
maybe not.

Dar Scott



From webmaster at listology.com  Wed Oct  2 12:31:01 2002
From: webmaster at listology.com (Jim Biancolo)
Date: Wed Oct  2 12:31:01 2002
Subject: Windows Build Problem
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021002130952.02aa2c60@mail.qrc.com>

Hi folks,

I successfully built my first prototype for Windows and the Mac and both 
run!  Very exciting!  :-)  I am having a problem on my only Windows XP 
installation though.  The app throws this error then fails to start:

"Windows cannot open this program because it has been prevented by a 
software restriction policy"

Seems fine on Win2K and 98.  Has anyone run into this before on XP (or 
otherwise)?

Thanks!

Jim



From webmaster at listology.com  Wed Oct  2 13:58:01 2002
From: webmaster at listology.com (Jim Biancolo)
Date: Wed Oct  2 13:58:01 2002
Subject: Windows Build Problem
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021002130952.02aa2c60@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021002144959.02a78720@mail.berkshire.net>

Sorry for the overly hasty e-mail.  Upon further (and obvious) reflection 
it seems like this is probably not a RunRev issue, but rather an XP 
security issue.  I'll try to run it to ground in the Windows NGs.

Thanks!

Jim

At 01:25 PM 10/2/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi folks,
>
>I successfully built my first prototype for Windows and the Mac and both 
>run!  Very exciting!  :-)  I am having a problem on my only Windows XP 
>installation though.  The app throws this error then fails to start:
>
>"Windows cannot open this program because it has been prevented by a 
>software restriction policy"
>
>Seems fine on Win2K and 98.  Has anyone run into this before on XP (or 
>otherwise)?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Jim



From dan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct  2 14:25:01 2002
From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed Oct  2 14:25:01 2002
Subject: hello
Message-ID: <a05111705b9c0f69925dd@[63.205.23.218]>

At 5:41 AM -0400 10/2/02, Kee Nethery wrote:
>  > Howdy, The boss is giving me a shot at moving the project from
>>  Realbasic to Revolution. I may be asking a *lot* of questions in the
>>  next few days. Bear with me!
>>
>>  My Realbasic app is 50 screens and 12K lines of code. More apps are in
>>  the works. Wish me luck. Thanks,
>
>I was looking for a new environment now that Hypercard and Mac OS X
>don't play well together. The default beginner programming environment
>that everyone was leaning me towards was RealBasic. I watched the
>RealBasic demo and the Revolution demo at WWDC. (Geoff Canyon did a
>great job.) I was sitting with people who write a lot of code, probably
>code you have run or are running today. They knew I was looking for a
>new environment and had recommended RealBasic. After the two demos, in
>their mind there was no comparison, they were going to start
>recommending Revolution for anyone starting out on a new programming
>single user development system.
>
>So I think you are making a good choice.

I'd like to echo that sentiment. I spent a LOT of time doing an 
evaluation and comparison between RealBasic and Runtime Revolution a 
few months ago when i began looking for a cross-platform, 
single-developer tool. I had a predisposition to RR because of my 
deep HyperCard background but I'd been away from HC for a long time 
and doing a lot of object-oriented stuff, so that was nudging me 
toward RealBasic.

After several weeks of probing -- including building three separate 
apps in both environments -- RR won hands-down based on one factor: 
programmer productivity. The underlying architecture of RealBasic is 
theoretically and conceptually sounder (more object-oriented) than 
RR's, but when the dust settled, I found I was writing apps in RR 
3-10 times faster than the same app in RealBasic.

I'm not looking back.


-- 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
How smart do you work? What's your TQ (Time Quotient)?
Find out free in 2 minutes at http://www.thinktq.com/Results2002
Free one-year training course in your email box - $120 value
Get an insightful book written and published EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOU


From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  2 14:36:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  2 14:36:01 2002
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b99bf61e0cd0@[216.229.107.77]>
Message-ID: <60AF9B16-D63D-11D6-92F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Wednesday, September 4, 2002, at 12:46  PM, Rob Cozens wrote:
>
> Rev 1.5 is still in testing.  I have no clue when it will be 
> officially released.

Coming from REALbasic land, I immediately start looking for new 
features in the prerelease versions of Rev ;-). I could really make use 
of the XML parsing and the new spreadsheet control. Can anyone please 
spill the beans a little bit about the status of the next release 
beyond 1.1.1. Where can I download an alpha from, if anywhere?

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From mazzapaolo at libero.it  Wed Oct  2 15:29:01 2002
From: mazzapaolo at libero.it (paolo mazza)
Date: Wed Oct  2 15:29:01 2002
Subject: set the brush
In-Reply-To: <200210021601.MAA11072@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9C125FC.3F46%mazzapaolo@libero.it>

Do you know why the command "set the brush to 10" does not work on
rev-standalones? 
Best regards, Paolo



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct  2 15:40:01 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Oct  2 15:40:01 2002
Subject: set the brush
In-Reply-To: <B9C125FC.3F46%mazzapaolo@libero.it>
Message-ID: <B9C0A63F.3FF6%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "paolo mazza"  wrote:

> Do you know why the command "set the brush to 10" does not work on
> rev-standalones? 

Did you use the Resource Mover (not sure what the Rev term is here) to move
the Rev brushes into your main stack before building the standalone?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From RGould8 at aol.com  Wed Oct  2 15:42:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Wed Oct  2 15:42:01 2002
Subject: Anyone know how to set to use DHCP with Revolution?
Message-ID: <d7.1e5d534b.2accb2c0@aol.com>

Thanks for this information about how to get the network settings.   I'm 
still at a loss as to how one goes about making the setting to DHCP.   I've 
tried all kinds of techniques from:

"set configuration method of TCP v4 configuration 1 to DHCP"

to various effort to "unlock" the control-settings.

I think this is going to take some heavy-lifting/network guru type to figure 
this one out.   Is there anyone else who's tried something like this before 
(setting the user's Networking Control panel to DHCP via Applescript)   
Perhaps I could pay someone to write a routine for me, if it can be done at 
all.


In a message dated 10/1/02 6:07:20 PM, kray at sonsothunder.com writes:


> Well,
> 
> I don't know how to set the DHCP, but here's some AppleScript code that 
> will
> *get* the configuration method using the Network Setup scripting 
> addition...
> perhaps you can use this as a start:
> 
> ----------------------
> set configMethod to ""
> set configName to ""
> set cfg to ""
> 
> tell application "Network Setup Scripting"
> ? open database
> ? set config to current configuration set
> ? repeat with i from 1 to count of configuration of config
> ? ? if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration) 
> then
> ? ? ? set cfg to configuration i of config
> ? ? ? set configName to name of config? -- so you can check the name to see
> if it's the right one
> ? ? ? exit repeat
> ? ? end if
> ? end repeat
> ? set configMethod to configuration method of cfg
> ? close database
> 
> ? -- Now, show it in the results window
> ? get "Config name: " & configName & ", Method: " & configMethod
> end tell
> ------------------------
> When I ran this on my Mac, I got:
> 
> ? ? Config name: My Network Settings, Method: manual
> 
> (which is all correct, BTW).
> 
> Note that this stops as soon as it hits a TCPIP configuration method (and
> you may have many defined in the TCP/IP control panel), so you may need to
> check "configName" to see if it is the right one before going on. Also, 
> keep
> in mind that configurations can be locked (I don't know how to get around
> that at the moment)...
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RGould8 at aol.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 3:35 PM
> Subject: Anyone know how to set to use DHCP with Revolution?
> 
> 
> If I drag the Network Scripting file in Mac OS 9 to the Script Editor, I 
> get
> a whole Applescript dictionary of commands to control the user's Networking
> preferences.?? What I'd like to do is somehow get Revolution to talk to
> Applescript to then set the user's Network control panel to use DHCP.
> Perhaps there's a way to get Revolution to access this directly?
> 
> I've found the Network Scripting dictionary to be very confusing.?? Is 
> there
> a Networking guru on this list who can tell me what the secret commands are
> within that dictionary to set the user's network control panel to DHCP?
> Here's the vast array of commands:
> 
> 
> Class TCPIP v4 configuration: A TCP/IP v4 configuration
> Plural form:
> ? ?? TCPIP v4 configurations
> Elements:
> ? ?? router address by numeric index, as a range of elements
> ? ?? name server address by numeric index, as a range of elements
> ? ?? search domain by numeric index, as a range of elements
> Properties:
> ? ?? <Inheritance>? configuration?? -- See the class ?configuration? for
> more properties
> ? ?? connecting via? Ethernet/MacIP/PPP?? -- the port or connection method
> of
> this configuration...
> ? ?? connecting via? string?? -- ...or a port name?? (may be locked)
> ? ?? configuration method? BootP/DHCP/MacIP manual/MacIP
> server/manual/RARP/PPP server?? -- the configuration method of this
> configuration (may be locked)
> ? ?? IP address? string?? -- the IP address of this configuration (may be
> locked)
> ? ?? subnet mask? string?? -- the IP subnet mask of this configuration (may
> be locked)
> ? ?? implicit search start? string?? -- the implicit starting search domain
> of this configuration (may be locked)
> ? ?? implicit search end? string?? -- the implicit ending search domain of
> this configuration (may be locked)
> ? ?? DHCP client ID? string?? -- applies only if the configuration method 
> is
> DHCP (may be locked)
> ? ?? MacIP server zone? string?? -- only applies if ?connecting via? is
> MacIP (may be locked)
> ? ?? uses IEEE8023? boolean?? -- Does this configuration use the 802.3
> protocol? (may be locked)
> ? ?? protocol? TCPIP v4?? [r/o]?? -- the protocol of this configuration 
> (the
> constant ?TCPIP v4?)
> ? ?? administration password? string?? -- the password of this 
> configuration
> (write only)
> ? ?? user mode? basic/advanced/administration?? -- the user mode of this
> configuration
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

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From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Wed Oct  2 16:49:01 2002
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Wed Oct  2 16:49:01 2002
Subject: Anyone know how to set to use DHCP with Revolution?
In-Reply-To: <d7.1e5d534b.2accb2c0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGEEIMCFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>

I've done something similar for a (how should I put this) 'techically challenged' client.
They had Apple iBooks and wanted to access the internet from three different locations
i) at home through their airport
ii) in a UK hotel through a UK ISP
iii) in a USA hotel 

Normally one would use 'Location Manager'. However they seemed to have difficulty with this. So I took the laptops and generated each scenario, copying the relevant preference files to a separate directory.

Then, I wrote a small Rev app (with BIG buttons) which said "Where are you ?" and gave the three choices. Based on this, the relevant pref files were copied into the correct places and the iBook restarted. 

Maybe a similar approach would work for you, but be *very* careful you don't overwrite user settings. I've found they can get *very* upset.

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
Chartered Information Systems Practitioner


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of RGould8 at aol.com
Sent: 02 October 2002 21:36
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Anyone know how to set to use DHCP with Revolution?


Thanks for this information about how to get the network settings.  I'm still at a loss as to how one goes about making the setting to DHCP.  I've tried all kinds of techniques from:

"set configuration method of TCP v4 configuration 1 to DHCP"

--CUT OFF--




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct  2 17:05:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Oct  2 17:05:01 2002
Subject: Supercard
In-Reply-To: <p05111701b9bfb3e7b16b@[192.168.0.5]>
Message-ID: <B9C0BA64.1D9D9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jeff Graham wrote:

> I was hoping for a 90% automatic conversion, 10% hand-tweaking, that
> kind of thing.  When you say people do conversions, do you mean as a
> chargeable service?

[Note:  Apologies in advance for what turned out to be another long post,
but this is an important topic so I pulled some notes from an artice I'm
working on to include them here.]


Similarities and Differences Among xTalk Dialects
-------------------------------------------------
When porting between xTalk tools, the differences that make each tool
uniquely valuable in the market can also make interoperability challenging.
After all, if all xTalk products were exactly like HyperCard, why not just
use HyperCard?  

In addition to different features, differences between operating systems
introduce an even larger range of porting issues.

xTalks I've ported between include HyperCard, SuperCard, Oracle Media
Objects, ToolBook, Gain Momentum, MetaCard, and Revolution.  In each case
much of the syntax and most of the objects were directly portable with
little or no modification.  Some ports were simpler than others, but none
were completely simple. :)

If you've ported HC stacks to SuperCard you know what I mean.  Just when you
fall in love with vector graphics you realize you don't have a
report-printing engine. When moving from SC to Rev/MC the scope of issues is
similar.

In addition to differences between the respective xTalk dialects and the
object models they support is the issue of relying solely on automated
methods of porting.  When a porting tool encounters a set of objects not
supported in the new environment or supported differently, it has to make a
"best guess" about what the most appropriate solution should be.  Most of
the time the decisions encoded in a porting tool apply well; other times a
different approach would be better.


Example: Menus
--------------
HyperCard implements menus in scripts only, while in SuperCard menus and
menu items are each a discrete object.  Rev/MC sits somewhere in between:
menus are objects (buttons actually), with menu items as text within the
button.

The SC->Rev converter makes a safe choice with menus:  it puts all of the
itemselect handlers from each item in a menu into the script of the button
that is now the new menu, adding text to that button to display the menu
item names.  So far so good.  Now then, where to put those menu buttons...

As a Mac-only tool, SuperCard menus exist only in the menu bar.  But in
Windows and UNIX menus are attached to the top of a window.  Rev supports
the detached menu bar on Mac OS by shortening the stack by the height of the
group object containing your menu buttons, with the contents of those
buttons being displayed in the menu bar as you would expect (it actually
goes further to display the last item of your Help menu as the first item in
the Apple menu and other OS-specific niceties).  This approach lets you
build one set of menus that automatically take on the appropriate behavior
for each platform.

But the detached menubar of Mac OS raises a question:  now that we're
cross-platform, to which window do we attach the menus?

Here's where an automated tool can't help you:  some applications are best
served by attaching relevant menus to specific windows, others by mimicking
an MDI ("Multiple Document Interface", one of the four standard Windows
windowing models) by detaching the menu bar into a separate stack.

The SC->Rev converter does its best to rebuild the objects in a way that
makes sense in the new multi-platform environment: it puts them in a
separate stack and leaves it for you to determine which menus go where.  As
an automated tool that's pretty much as far as it can go on that one.


Other Differences
-----------------
Beyond menus, other differences between SC and Rev can affect conversion
productivity:

- SC supports QT through script functions while Rev has native QT player
objects.

- SC uses graphic objects for shared text while Rev uses fields with a
sharedText property (the implications there warrant a thread in itself).

- SC windows can have scrollbars while Rev uses scrolling groups (a slightly
shorter thread).

- SC always saves when you move card-to-card while Rev controls saving in
scripts.

- Mac-specific things like AppleScript, PICT-format images, creator and file
type associations, high-ASCII character codes, etc. must be revised for
cross-platform compatibility.


Why Contractors?
----------------
Given the scope of differences between tools and operating systems, for
complex applications a lot of business and universities find it
cost-effective to partner with an experienced developer.  Sometimes it's a
one-time conversion job, other times the client may be looking at OS X and
XP and want to expand the work to include an "interfacelift" to bring their
project up to date with current conventions.

For small businesses and individuals, sometimes having a contractor on tap
can provide as-needed training and lend a hand with parts of the project
from time to time.


For the Self-Starter
--------------------
For an experienced scripter willing to dive in, the water's fine once you
adjust to it. :)   You have this list, a large and growing number of example
files on the Web, docs by one of xTalk's most published authors (Jeanne
wrote "HyperTalk 2.2: The Book" and more), and a very responsive Rev team.

Having gone through this transition myself (I sold SuperCard components
exclusively for many years) and having watched others do it, I've found that
learning Rev as a second language tends to follow this pattern:

  Two days: "Omigawd, the potential is incredible!
  If only I knew how to use it all..."

  Two weeks: "After reading the language guide and trying
  some things out, I'm able to do truly productive work."

  One month: "Now I can do productive work efficiently."

  Three months: "With the flexibility of the language and the handy
  tools in Revolution, I'm seeing slightly greater productivity
  than in my formerly-favorite tool I'd used for years."

  Six months : "I love this thing."

  One year: "I love this thing like no other."


A Learning Caveat
-----------------
When moving from one tool to another there is a temptation to assume the
best way to learn is to start with something you know, to jump in with
porting an existing project from another tool.  While this approach has its
merits, it underestimates the role of "unlearning".

Unlearning is what happens when you encounter new ways of doing things in
systems that have apparent, but limited, similarity.  Without unlearning,
expectations of a greater level of similarity than may be present can cause
frustration.  I've seen this many times moving from tool to tool and OS to
OS.

At a minimum, doing the Rev tutorials will introduce you to the basics
unique to Rev, and help you anticipate potential challenges likely to be
encountered during conversion.

Taking a few hours to toy around in the Rev development environment before
doing a conversion can pay off handsomely.  You'll have the basics down and
can dive right into your conversion with confidence.


More Info
---------
Article: Revolution for SuperCard Developers
<http://www.RunRev.com/revolution/developers/articles/movingtools/supercard.
html>

There are links in the upper-right of this page to the Human Interface
Guidelines for most of Rev's supported platforms (and to other usability and
interface design resources):
<http://www.fourthworld.com/resources/index.html>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Oct  2 17:19:01 2002
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed Oct  2 17:19:01 2002
Subject: Creating Groups Prob in MacOS9
In-Reply-To: <B9C0BA64.1D9D9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0210021509310.29776-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Hi again,

I recently did a quickie demo of using Rev for my class and had a problem
that I've been able to reproduce:  In OS9, I create two buttons, select
both, and do either the Apple-G thing OR the menu command to group.  The
two are then visibly grouped.  I deselect.  I then try to reselect but can
only select one or the other button.  In other words, the grouping doesn't
seem to stick.

I then do the exact same thing under OSX and the grouping is persistent.

Am I missing something?

Judy




From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  2 17:29:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  2 17:29:00 2002
Subject: IDE question re: send to back/front
Message-ID: <7CEEE22B-D655-11D6-92F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>

In the Application Overview Window, Cards Tab, mode "now browsing 
controls on card ...", there are buttons for send to back/front, move 
forwards/backwards. Some some cards and some groups/objects they are 
enabled. Sometimes they are enabled and sometimes they aren't. what am 
I missing here that's that's the condition for those buttons being 
available?

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Oct  2 17:31:01 2002
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed Oct  2 17:31:01 2002
Subject: Creating Groups Prob in MacOS9
Message-ID: <OFCCD50BB4.E524826F-ON85256C46.007AE9FF@sealedair.com>

Hi Judy,

In the Edit menu, if "Select Grouped Controls" is checked, it allows you to
select individual objects even if they are grouped. If un-checked, clicking
an object selects the entire group.

~Roger

> Hi again,
>
> I recently did a quickie demo of using Rev for my class and had a problem
> that I've been able to reproduce:  In OS9, I create two buttons, select
> both, and do either the Apple-G thing OR the menu command to group.  The
> two are then visibly grouped.  I deselect.  I then try to reselect but
can
> only select one or the other button.  In other words, the grouping
doesn't
> seem to stick.
>
> I then do the exact same thing under OSX and the grouping is persistent.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> Judy





From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Oct  2 17:37:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Oct  2 17:37:01 2002
Subject: Creating Groups Prob in MacOS9
In-Reply-To: <a05111ae0b9c1221020e4@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <9C45FB9E-D656-11D6-BB4F-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

In the tool bar, there is a button labelled "SGC". This toggles whether 
you can select the group or the individual members of the group. The 
same thing can be accomplished by checking or unchecking the "Select 
Grouped Controls" item in the Edit menu.

Sarah

On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 08:22  am, Judy Perry wrote:

> Hi again,
>
> I recently did a quickie demo of using Rev for my class and had a 
> problem
> that I've been able to reproduce:  In OS9, I create two buttons, select
> both, and do either the Apple-G thing OR the menu command to group.  
> The
> two are then visibly grouped.  I deselect.  I then try to reselect but 
> can
> only select one or the other button.  In other words, the grouping 
> doesn't
> seem to stick.
>
> I then do the exact same thing under OSX and the grouping is 
> persistent.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> Judy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  2 18:06:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  2 18:06:01 2002
Subject: IDE question re: send to back/front
In-Reply-To: <7CEEE22B-D655-11D6-92F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <A1F576C0-D65A-11D6-92F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, at 04:22  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> In the Application Overview Window, Cards Tab, mode "now browsing 
> controls on card ...", there are buttons for send to back/front, move 
> forwards/backwards. Some some cards and some groups/objects they are 
> enabled. Sometimes they are enabled and sometimes they aren't. what am 
> I missing here that's that's the condition for those buttons being 
> available?

Oops, autosolved. One must double-click on the card so it's visible. 
Then the fore/back buttons get enabled in application overview.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Oct  2 18:13:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Oct  2 18:13:01 2002
Subject: Anyone know how to set to use DHCP with Revolution?
In-Reply-To: <a05111ad4b9c10b52cc70@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <85EE9880-D65B-11D6-BB4F-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> Thanks for this information about how to get the network settings.  
> I'm still at a loss as to how one goes about making the setting to 
> DHCP.  I've tried all kinds of techniques from:
>
> "set configuration method of TCP v4 configuration 1 to DHCP"
>
> to various effort to "unlock" the control-settings.
>
> I think this is going to take some heavy-lifting/network guru type to 
> figure this one out.  Is there anyone else who's tried something like 
> this before (setting the user's Networking Control panel to DHCP via 
> Applescript)  Perhaps I could pay someone to write a routine for me, 
> if it can be done at all.
>

Hi Roger,

Here is Ken's script with an added section that changes the relevant 
setting to DHCP. As Ken mentioned, this just handles the first TCP 
configuration it finds, so you might need to add a check for other 
configs, but it should get you started:

set configMethod to ""
set configName to ""
set cfg to ""

tell application "Network Setup Scripting"
	open database
	set config to current configuration set
	repeat with i from 1 to count of configuration of config
		if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration) 
then
			set cfg to configuration i of config
			set configName to name of config -- so you can check the name to see 
if it's the right one
			exit repeat
		end if
	end repeat
	set configMethod to configuration method of cfg
	
	try
		if configMethod ? "DHCP" then
			begin transaction
			set protec to get protection of configuration method of cfg
			if protec = locked then return "Setting is locked"
			set the configuration method of cfg to DHCP
			end transaction
		end if
	on error errMsg number errNum
		close database
		return "Error: " & errMsg & " " & errNum
	end try
	
	close database
	return "Setting changed to DHCP"
end tell

Note: there is a line above that uses the Mac's Not-equal sign 
(option-equal): if configMethod **not-equal** "DHCP" then
It may not translate via email. Also beware of long lines wrapping. If 
you want me to send you the actual script, send me an email off-list.

Sarah



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct  2 19:52:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct  2 19:52:01 2002
Subject: Supercard
References: <B9C0BA64.1D9D9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c26a75$95882280$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Well said, Richard!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Supercard


> Jeff Graham wrote:
>
> > I was hoping for a 90% automatic conversion, 10% hand-tweaking, that
> > kind of thing.  When you say people do conversions, do you mean as a
> > chargeable service?
>
> [Note:  Apologies in advance for what turned out to be another long post,
> but this is an important topic so I pulled some notes from an artice I'm
> working on to include them here.]
>
>
> Similarities and Differences Among xTalk Dialects
> -------------------------------------------------
> When porting between xTalk tools, the differences that make each tool
> uniquely valuable in the market can also make interoperability
challenging.
> After all, if all xTalk products were exactly like HyperCard, why not just
> use HyperCard?
>
> In addition to different features, differences between operating systems
> introduce an even larger range of porting issues.
>
> xTalks I've ported between include HyperCard, SuperCard, Oracle Media
> Objects, ToolBook, Gain Momentum, MetaCard, and Revolution.  In each case
> much of the syntax and most of the objects were directly portable with
> little or no modification.  Some ports were simpler than others, but none
> were completely simple. :)
>
> If you've ported HC stacks to SuperCard you know what I mean.  Just when
you
> fall in love with vector graphics you realize you don't have a
> report-printing engine. When moving from SC to Rev/MC the scope of issues
is
> similar.
>
> In addition to differences between the respective xTalk dialects and the
> object models they support is the issue of relying solely on automated
> methods of porting.  When a porting tool encounters a set of objects not
> supported in the new environment or supported differently, it has to make
a
> "best guess" about what the most appropriate solution should be.  Most of
> the time the decisions encoded in a porting tool apply well; other times a
> different approach would be better.
>
>
> Example: Menus
> --------------
> HyperCard implements menus in scripts only, while in SuperCard menus and
> menu items are each a discrete object.  Rev/MC sits somewhere in between:
> menus are objects (buttons actually), with menu items as text within the
> button.
>
> The SC->Rev converter makes a safe choice with menus:  it puts all of the
> itemselect handlers from each item in a menu into the script of the button
> that is now the new menu, adding text to that button to display the menu
> item names.  So far so good.  Now then, where to put those menu buttons...
>
> As a Mac-only tool, SuperCard menus exist only in the menu bar.  But in
> Windows and UNIX menus are attached to the top of a window.  Rev supports
> the detached menu bar on Mac OS by shortening the stack by the height of
the
> group object containing your menu buttons, with the contents of those
> buttons being displayed in the menu bar as you would expect (it actually
> goes further to display the last item of your Help menu as the first item
in
> the Apple menu and other OS-specific niceties).  This approach lets you
> build one set of menus that automatically take on the appropriate behavior
> for each platform.
>
> But the detached menubar of Mac OS raises a question:  now that we're
> cross-platform, to which window do we attach the menus?
>
> Here's where an automated tool can't help you:  some applications are best
> served by attaching relevant menus to specific windows, others by
mimicking
> an MDI ("Multiple Document Interface", one of the four standard Windows
> windowing models) by detaching the menu bar into a separate stack.
>
> The SC->Rev converter does its best to rebuild the objects in a way that
> makes sense in the new multi-platform environment: it puts them in a
> separate stack and leaves it for you to determine which menus go where.
As
> an automated tool that's pretty much as far as it can go on that one.
>
>
> Other Differences
> -----------------
> Beyond menus, other differences between SC and Rev can affect conversion
> productivity:
>
> - SC supports QT through script functions while Rev has native QT player
> objects.
>
> - SC uses graphic objects for shared text while Rev uses fields with a
> sharedText property (the implications there warrant a thread in itself).
>
> - SC windows can have scrollbars while Rev uses scrolling groups (a
slightly
> shorter thread).
>
> - SC always saves when you move card-to-card while Rev controls saving in
> scripts.
>
> - Mac-specific things like AppleScript, PICT-format images, creator and
file
> type associations, high-ASCII character codes, etc. must be revised for
> cross-platform compatibility.
>
>
> Why Contractors?
> ----------------
> Given the scope of differences between tools and operating systems, for
> complex applications a lot of business and universities find it
> cost-effective to partner with an experienced developer.  Sometimes it's a
> one-time conversion job, other times the client may be looking at OS X and
> XP and want to expand the work to include an "interfacelift" to bring
their
> project up to date with current conventions.
>
> For small businesses and individuals, sometimes having a contractor on tap
> can provide as-needed training and lend a hand with parts of the project
> from time to time.
>
>
> For the Self-Starter
> --------------------
> For an experienced scripter willing to dive in, the water's fine once you
> adjust to it. :)   You have this list, a large and growing number of
example
> files on the Web, docs by one of xTalk's most published authors (Jeanne
> wrote "HyperTalk 2.2: The Book" and more), and a very responsive Rev team.
>
> Having gone through this transition myself (I sold SuperCard components
> exclusively for many years) and having watched others do it, I've found
that
> learning Rev as a second language tends to follow this pattern:
>
>   Two days: "Omigawd, the potential is incredible!
>   If only I knew how to use it all..."
>
>   Two weeks: "After reading the language guide and trying
>   some things out, I'm able to do truly productive work."
>
>   One month: "Now I can do productive work efficiently."
>
>   Three months: "With the flexibility of the language and the handy
>   tools in Revolution, I'm seeing slightly greater productivity
>   than in my formerly-favorite tool I'd used for years."
>
>   Six months : "I love this thing."
>
>   One year: "I love this thing like no other."
>
>
> A Learning Caveat
> -----------------
> When moving from one tool to another there is a temptation to assume the
> best way to learn is to start with something you know, to jump in with
> porting an existing project from another tool.  While this approach has
its
> merits, it underestimates the role of "unlearning".
>
> Unlearning is what happens when you encounter new ways of doing things in
> systems that have apparent, but limited, similarity.  Without unlearning,
> expectations of a greater level of similarity than may be present can
cause
> frustration.  I've seen this many times moving from tool to tool and OS to
> OS.
>
> At a minimum, doing the Rev tutorials will introduce you to the basics
> unique to Rev, and help you anticipate potential challenges likely to be
> encountered during conversion.
>
> Taking a few hours to toy around in the Rev development environment before
> doing a conversion can pay off handsomely.  You'll have the basics down
and
> can dive right into your conversion with confidence.
>
>
> More Info
> ---------
> Article: Revolution for SuperCard Developers
>
<http://www.RunRev.com/revolution/developers/articles/movingtools/supercard.
> html>
>
> There are links in the upper-right of this page to the Human Interface
> Guidelines for most of Rev's supported platforms (and to other usability
and
> interface design resources):
> <http://www.fourthworld.com/resources/index.html>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Oct  2 20:20:01 2002
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed Oct  2 20:20:01 2002
Subject: Creating Groups Prob in MacOS9
In-Reply-To: <OFCCD50BB4.E524826F-ON85256C46.007AE9FF@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0210021813270.8173-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Hi Roger,

Yippeee!  thanks:-)

Judy

On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

>
> Hi Judy,
>
> In the Edit menu, if "Select Grouped Controls" is checked, it allows you to
> select individual objects even if they are grouped. If un-checked, clicking
> an object selects the entire group.



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Oct  2 20:21:01 2002
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed Oct  2 20:21:01 2002
Subject: Creating Groups Prob in MacOS9
In-Reply-To: <9C45FB9E-D656-11D6-BB4F-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0210021814050.8173-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Another "Yippeee!"  Thank you, Sarah.

On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Sarah wrote:

> In the tool bar, there is a button labelled "SGC". This toggles whether
> you can select the group or the individual members of the group. The
> same thing can be accomplished by checking or unchecking the "Select
> Grouped Controls" item in the Edit menu.



From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  2 20:26:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  2 20:26:01 2002
Subject: couple of IDE questions
Message-ID: <437AFF78-D66E-11D6-92F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>

Hi, a couple more IDE questions:

1) I have two groups with no controls, no scripts. Rev won't let me 
delete them. According to the docs, selecting Clear Objects from the 
edit menu should work. But often Clear Objects is not available in the 
edit menu, and even when I it is available, it doesn't remove the empty 
groups. How else can I get rid of these groups?

2) I am copy-pasting text from MS Excel into Rev. Sometimes if I select 
more than one cell in Excel, what get's pasted into Rev doesn't go into 
a Field text box, it gets written into the background image group. 
Seems to draw the text right into the image itself (a .jpg). How can I 
prevent that from happening?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Oct  2 20:26:05 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Oct  2 20:26:05 2002
Subject: revolution and OSX 10.2+ Animation
In-Reply-To: <a05111a03b9bdfb911b64@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <2798078E-D66E-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> 1) what about revolution and OSX 10.2? Is it fully compatible (both 
> for development and deployment?
Yes, although there is an issue with the Appearance Manager. If you 
find the development environment unstable (i.e. frequent unexpected 
quits), turn on Mac OS Emulated in the Look & Feel menu item of the 
View menu. Built applications are perfectly stable.

Sarah

>
> 2) Once I create several animations with Animation Manager, how should 
> I do to recall and modify previous animations (I can see only the last 
> one)?
Sorry, can't help here.

Sarah




From rooster at drizzle.com  Wed Oct  2 20:37:01 2002
From: rooster at drizzle.com (iMP)
Date: Wed Oct  2 20:37:01 2002
Subject: Where is the Speak command?
In-Reply-To: <200210022106.RAA17855@www.runrev.com>
References: <200210022106.RAA17855@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <v04220803b9c14dce26f6@[192.168.123.105]>

Hi:

I was looking around for the command to speak a text field. Is this 
possible on Mac OS?

Thanks,

imp


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct  2 20:47:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Oct  2 20:47:01 2002
Subject: Where is the Speak command?
In-Reply-To: <v04220803b9c14dce26f6@[192.168.123.105]>
Message-ID: <B9C0EE76.1DA05%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

iMP wrote:

> I was looking around for the command to speak a text field. Is this
> possible on Mac OS?

Yes, with the externals on the RunRev site:
<http://www.RunRev.com/revolution/developers/developerdownloads/externalscol
lection.html>

These externals are for Classic only.  I'm told they will be updated for OS
X soon.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Oct  2 21:30:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Oct  2 21:30:01 2002
Subject: Where is the Speak command?
In-Reply-To: <a05111a2ab9c151673974@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <25EF4D04-D677-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Or use AppleScript that works in OS 9 or OS X. Here is a handler to  
make it easy:

on doSpeech theSpeech
   put "Victoria" into theVoice
   -- look in the Voices folder for a list of possibilities

   do "say " & quote & theSpeech & quote & " using " & quote & \
       theVoice & quote as AppleScript
end doSpeech

You use it with a statement like:
	doSpeech field "text to say"

Sarah

On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 11:44  am, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> iMP wrote:
>
>> I was looking around for the command to speak a text field. Is this
>> possible on Mac OS?
>
> Yes, with the externals on the RunRev site:
> <http://www.RunRev.com/revolution/developers/developerdownloads/ 
> externalscol
> lection.html>
>
> These externals are for Classic only.  I'm told they will be updated  
> for OS
> X soon.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Oct  2 22:31:01 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Oct  2 22:31:01 2002
Subject: TabletPC
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEADCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Hi All

Anyone know if Rev apps will run on WinXP for Tablet PC.

Monte Goulding
B.App.Sc. (Hons.)

Executive Director
Sweat Technologies

email: monte at sweattechnologies.com
website: www.sweattechnologies.com
mobile (International): +61 421 138 274 
       (Australia): 0421 138 274



From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Oct  2 23:12:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed Oct  2 23:12:01 2002
Subject: revolution and OSX 10.2+ Animation
In-Reply-To: <2798078E-D66E-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <2798078E-D66E-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9c171688086@[216.229.107.84]>

>>2) Once I create several animations with Animation Manager, how 
>>should I do to recall and modify previous animations (I can see 
>>only the last one)?

Click on the icon to the left of the Animation Manager's "New" button 
and select the animation from the popup.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Oct  2 23:12:07 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed Oct  2 23:12:07 2002
Subject: couple of IDE questions
In-Reply-To: <437AFF78-D66E-11D6-92F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>
References: <437AFF78-D66E-11D6-92F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302b9c171d098fa@[216.229.107.84]>

Hi Alex,

>1) I have two groups with no controls, no scripts. Rev won't let me 
>delete them. According to the docs, selecting Clear Objects from the 
>edit menu should work. But often Clear Objects is not available in 
>the edit menu, and even when I it is available, it doesn't remove 
>the empty groups. How else can I get rid of these groups?

Select the group in the Application Overview and click on the delete button.

>2) I am copy-pasting text from MS Excel into Rev. Sometimes if I 
>select more than one cell in Excel, what get's pasted into Rev 
>doesn't go into a Field text box, it gets written into the 
>background image group. Seems to draw the text right into the image 
>itself (a .jpg). How can I prevent that from happening?

Have Excel output the text to a delimited file and write a handler 
that reads the file and imports the text where you want it.

-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From terry at discovery.nl  Wed Oct  2 23:37:00 2002
From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Wed Oct  2 23:37:00 2002
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <60AF9B16-D63D-11D6-92F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <B9C19470.181F1%terry@discovery.nl>

>> Rev 1.5 is still in testing.  I have no clue when it will be
>> officially released.
> 
> Coming from REALbasic land, I immediately start looking for new
> features in the prerelease versions of Rev ;-). I could really make use
> of the XML parsing and the new spreadsheet control. Can anyone please
> spill the beans a little bit about the status of the next release
> beyond 1.1.1. Where can I download an alpha from, if anywhere?

You have to be a pro user to be able to test the alpha versions. If you are,
please contact Kevin Miller about this. If you are not, just be a bit more
patient...

Terry




From katir at hindu.org  Wed Oct  2 23:41:01 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Wed Oct  2 23:41:01 2002
Subject: FTP Site Synchronization
Message-ID: <A192144C-D689-11D6-B93C-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

Strange as in may seem, searching hi and lo over the entire universe we 
cannot find any decent FTP Web site synchronization for the Mac. This 
is to synchronize two sites on different servers where one is a local 
directory (containing an entire public_html folder/files)  on our 
staging server on the LAN and the other is the "distribution" site  on 
the ISP's server in Honolulu.  Has any one created this using 
Revolution?

So far everything available is either , deficient, buggy, or just 
doesn't work. rSync (unix), Vicom, Interarchy... all have their own 
serious problems.

TIA

Thanks!
Himalayan Academy Publications
Sivakatirswami
katir at hindu.org
www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org



From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  2 23:42:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  2 23:42:00 2002
Subject: couple of IDE questions
In-Reply-To: <a05100302b9c171d098fa@[216.229.107.84]>
Message-ID: <AA8F9FA4-D689-11D6-92F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, at 10:04  PM, Rob Cozens wrote:
> Select the group in the Application Overview and click on the delete 
> button.

Whew-- OK found it. Still getting used to the little disclosure widget 
on the bottom of the App Overview.

> Have Excel output the text to a delimited file and write a handler 
> that reads the file and imports the text where you want it.

I wish I could. This Excel file was created more for presentation than 
really doing anything useful with a delimited format or cell tags or 
anything like that.

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct  3 00:06:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Oct  3 00:06:01 2002
Subject: FTP Site Synchronization
In-Reply-To: <A192144C-D689-11D6-B93C-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <B9C11D19.1DA33%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Strange as in may seem, searching hi and lo over the entire universe we
> cannot find any decent FTP Web site synchronization for the Mac. This
> is to synchronize two sites on different servers where one is a local
> directory (containing an entire public_html folder/files)  on our
> staging server on the LAN and the other is the "distribution" site  on
> the ISP's server in Honolulu.  Has any one created this using
> Revolution?

I thought about it, but the one built into GoLive has been doing such a good
job I've never really pursued it.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Thu Oct  3 03:31:01 2002
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic Thebault)
Date: Thu Oct  3 03:31:01 2002
Subject: [Bug ?] Replace and TextStyle
Message-ID: <3D9BFEA5.8050000@laposte.net>

When i use the replace command (or replacetext) on a fld, the textstyle 
of the fld is set to plain.

How prevent it ?



From kevin at runrev.com  Thu Oct  3 04:08:00 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Thu Oct  3 04:08:00 2002
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <60AF9B16-D63D-11D6-92F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <B9C1C620.B2CB%kevin@runrev.com>

On 2/10/02 8:30 pm, Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com> wrote:

>> Rev 1.5 is still in testing.  I have no clue when it will be
>> officially released.
> 
> Coming from REALbasic land, I immediately start looking for new
> features in the prerelease versions of Rev ;-). I could really make use
> of the XML parsing and the new spreadsheet control. Can anyone please
> spill the beans a little bit about the status of the next release
> beyond 1.1.1. Where can I download an alpha from, if anywhere?

Our professional license holders have access to the alpha and beta test
releases.

Kind regards,

Kevin 

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Thu Oct  3 05:45:01 2002
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (malte brill)
Date: Thu Oct  3 05:45:01 2002
Subject: Collision detection: A comparison
In-Reply-To: <200210021601.MAA11072@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9C1E8FF.6CB%malte.brill@t-online.de>

> The more I think about this, try optimizing a simple pixel overlap
> in the overlapped region of the two images.  That may be enough.

So first check with intersect function, if intersec=true then check with
pixel method for the overlapping parts of the two objects?
That seems to be a good thought.
It really sounds as if it might be enough to check exerpts of the maskdata,
but I still got no idea how to compute them.

That one will keep me thinking for a while.

Regards,

Malte



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Thu Oct  3 05:46:51 2002
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (malte brill)
Date: Thu Oct  3 05:46:51 2002
Subject: Quicktime VR: Prevent user navigation
In-Reply-To: <200210021601.MAA11072@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9C1EAD5.6CC%malte.brill@t-online.de>

> Malte,
> 
> You could put an invisible button(s) over the player which would
> intercept mouse clicks and add buttons yourself to control the player.
> 
> Bill Vlahos

Hi Bill,

doesn?t work. The button is absorbed by the player and doesn?t receive any
mouse interaction in the player area. I have changed the sequence of
statments in my script (always buffer and set the pan). Better, but still
not really good (looks quite chessy).

Thanks anyway, 
Malte



From kevin at runrev.com  Thu Oct  3 05:51:00 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Thu Oct  3 05:51:00 2002
Subject: Quicktime VR: Prevent user navigation
In-Reply-To: <B9C1EAD5.6CC%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <B9C1DE46.B331%kevin@runrev.com>

On 3/10/02 11:38 am, malte brill <malte.brill at t-online.de> wrote:

> doesn?t work. The button is absorbed by the player and doesn?t receive any
> mouse interaction in the player area. I have changed the sequence of
> statments in my script (always buffer and set the pan). Better, but still
> not really good (looks quite chessy).

Turn on the alwaysBuffer, then set the currentTime to 1 every time you make
a change to the pan to force a redraw.  (The latter workaround is really a
bug/glitch, we know about that one.)

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From sschofield at computing.dundee.ac.uk  Thu Oct  3 06:31:01 2002
From: sschofield at computing.dundee.ac.uk (sschofield)
Date: Thu Oct  3 06:31:01 2002
Subject: Richmond Mathewson's mad movies
Message-ID: <31C6D68FA597D411B04D00E02965883BB14CC6@mailhost>

Hi. I have just had oodles of fun with the mad movies. Brilliant. I
particularly like the clear interface. What did you draw it in? I now have
to do some child-friendly interfaces and know nothing about such things. Any
advice gladly received.

susie


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Thu Oct  3 08:14:01 2002
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (malte brill)
Date: Thu Oct  3 08:14:01 2002
Subject: Quicktime VR: Prevent user navigation
Message-ID: <B9C20DC0.6CD%malte.brill@t-online.de>

>Turn on the alwaysBuffer, then set the currentTime to 1 every time you make
>a change to the pan to force a redraw.

Works great, thanks Kevin!



From rpresender at earthlink.net  Thu Oct  3 09:05:01 2002
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Thu Oct  3 09:05:01 2002
Subject: Calendar
Message-ID: <30414BC8-D6D8-11D6-9403-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

Hi,

Instead of the user typing in a date, some applications display a small 
monthly calendar from which the user selects a date and the date 
appears in a date field.

Would appreciate suggestions on how to do this in RR.  Is there an 
application(etc) that does this that could be implemented in RR and 
used cross-platform?  Do I have to create a stack from scratch?
  TIA
Regards ... Bob



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct  3 09:29:02 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct  3 09:29:02 2002
Subject: Calendar
In-Reply-To: <30414BC8-D6D8-11D6-9403-000393A19046@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A6316772-D6DB-11D6-A7AE-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 07:58  AM, Robert Presender wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Instead of the user typing in a date, some applications display a  
> small monthly calendar from which the user selects a date and the date  
> appears in a date field.
>
> Would appreciate suggestions on how to do this in RR.  Is there an  
> application(etc) that does this that could be implemented in RR and  
> used cross-platform?  Do I have to create a stack from scratch?
>  TIA
> Regards ... Bob
>

http://runrev.com/revolution/developers/developerdownloads/ 
usercontributions.html
has a Calendar Object like you describe. However that link and another  
link to http://www.shaosean.tk/ on that page goes to some poetry page,  
nothing about Rev. Anyone have good links for downloading  
CalendarObject and libString from Shao Sean?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Oct  3 10:21:01 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE)
Date: Thu Oct  3 10:21:01 2002
Subject: Calendar
In-Reply-To: <30414BC8-D6D8-11D6-9403-000393A19046@earthlink.net>
References: <30414BC8-D6D8-11D6-9403-000393A19046@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p05100300b9c20e8035e5@[10.0.1.202]>

>Hi,
>
>Instead of the user typing in a date, some applications display a 
>small monthly calendar from which the user selects a date and the 
>date appears in a date field.
>
>Would appreciate suggestions on how to do this in RR.  Is there an 
>application(etc) that does this that could be implemented in RR and 
>used cross-platform?  Do I have to create a stack from scratch?
>  TIA
>Regards ... Bob
>


I use the calendar of Shao Sean.
I've contribued a lot as beta tester of it.

I find it very useful

-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be


From bornstein at designeq.com  Thu Oct  3 14:00:07 2002
From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Thu Oct  3 14:00:07 2002
Subject: Weird Output from revPrintField
Message-ID: <200210031854.g93IsGd08414@mailout5-0.nyroc.rr.com>

Hi Joe,

I ran into exactly this problem and it appeared on various different 
versions of Windows (but not always). I reported it to RunRev but they 
never responded about it. I unfortunately had to release a commercial app 
with this bug in it.

As best as I can tell, it may be related to old print drivers on the 
target machine. If you have control over this, try updating to the latest 
print driver for your printer and see if that fixes the problem (I'd be 
very interested if this is so).

>And yes, I've also tried inserting the old revShowPrintDialog command in 
>front of the revPrintField command, but that never does anything even with 
>both options set to true.

Yes, this appears to be another print bug. If you use revShowPrintDialog 
true,true in any version of Windows before a revPrintField command (at 
least this has been my experience), the print dialog box is never shown. 
It just spools to the printer and prints.

We need to get RunRev to fix this. It's embarassing to release products 
with these kind of bugs.

Howard Bornstein
____________________
D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com


From rpresender at earthlink.net  Thu Oct  3 15:24:01 2002
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Thu Oct  3 15:24:01 2002
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #731 - 18 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200210031602.MAA07552@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1277B900-D70D-11D6-9856-000393A19046@earthlink.net>


On Donnerstag, Oktober 3, 2002, at 09:02  AM, Yves COPPE wrote:
snip
>
> I use the calendar of Shao Sean.
> I've contribued a lot as beta tester of it.
>
> I find it very useful

Thanks to you and Alex.  I've had the same problem as Alex.  Can you 
post( or email me) the URL of Shao Sean.

While on the user contribution of RR,  I found  Calendar by Sarah 
Reichelt.  Link is OK.

Thanks to all.

Regards ... Bob
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From ASGolub at dkhglaw.com  Thu Oct  3 16:32:02 2002
From: ASGolub at dkhglaw.com (Alan Golub)
Date: Thu Oct  3 16:32:02 2002
Subject: Revolution: The Book Project
Message-ID: <03F0EDFFDCF9D311B9550004ACB81D5C084713@NTSERVER>

Hi all --

I've been monitoring the archives of this user list for some time now, and
I've got to say that I'm impressed with the quality of the responses from
the user community. It's rare to find such consistently useful and friendly
help, without the flames you sometimes see on other lists. It's a credit to
the product, the company, and the users, so keep up the good work!

With this, my first post, I'm excited to announce that I have undertaken a
book project about Revolution. I envision an introductory programming text
for complete novices to programming and to Revolution. Over the next month
or so, I hope to draft a detailed outline for the book, and hopefully one or
two chapters. In support of the book and the writing process, I have started
a new weblog called "Programming Revolution." Here's the link:

http://progrevolution.blogspot.com/

The blog is really just a prototype right now, but I will work on improving
it over the next few days. Once it's finalized, I hope to update it 2-3
times a week with new info on the details and status of the book. I hope
you'll check it out and become a part of making this book project a success.
In my view, adequate third-party documentation can go a long way towards
greater acceptance of software tools, particularly development apps. Between
the blog, my participation in the user list, and, down the road, a published
book, I hope to really contribute towards getting Revolution the recognition
it deserves.

I look forward to learning from you all!

Regards,
Alan S. Golub



From alanIra9 at mac.com  Thu Oct  3 18:23:01 2002
From: alanIra9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Thu Oct  3 18:23:01 2002
Subject: Revolution: The Book Project
In-Reply-To: <03F0EDFFDCF9D311B9550004ACB81D5C084713@NTSERVER>
Message-ID: <39097458-D726-11D6-8D82-000393158950@mac.com>

Alan:

Sounds like a great and MUCH needed contribution.  I look forward to 
your progress

Alan Gayne
On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 05:35  PM, Alan Golub wrote:

> Hi all --
>
> I've been monitoring the archives of this user list for some time now, 
> and
> I've got to say that I'm impressed with the quality of the responses 
> from
> the user community. It's rare to find such consistently useful and 
> friendly
> help, without the flames you sometimes see on other lists. It's a 
> credit to
> the product, the company, and the users, so keep up the good work!
>
> With this, my first post, I'm excited to announce that I have 
> undertaken a
> book project about Revolution. I envision an introductory programming 
> text
> for complete novices to programming and to Revolution. Over the next 
> month
> or so, I hope to draft a detailed outline for the book, and hopefully 
> one or
> two chapters. In support of the book and the writing process, I have 
> started
> a new weblog called "Programming Revolution." Here's the link:
>
> http://progrevolution.blogspot.com/



From alanIra9 at mac.com  Thu Oct  3 18:29:01 2002
From: alanIra9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Thu Oct  3 18:29:01 2002
Subject: simulating clicking a line in a scrolling list field
Message-ID: <1393F4D0-D727-11D6-8D82-000393158950@mac.com>

Greetings to all,

Has anybody got s simple bit of code to simulate the user clicking on a 
particular line in a scrolling list field?

Something like "click at the location of line 5 of fld "list" (which 
unfortunately 'does not compute').

It's probably something simple but darned if I can figure it out.

TIA
Alan Gayne



From usher at cnbcom.net  Thu Oct  3 18:55:01 2002
From: usher at cnbcom.net (Philip Usher)
Date: Thu Oct  3 18:55:01 2002
Subject: FTP Site Synchronization
In-Reply-To: <200210031602.MAA07552@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9C241AF.3AB%usher@cnbcom.net>

on 10/3/02 11:02 AM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> wrote:


> Strange as in may seem, searching hi and lo over the entire universe we
> cannot find any decent FTP Web site synchronization for the Mac

iSync v1.4b6 works well here under OS 9.1

-- Philip




From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct  3 19:16:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct  3 19:16:01 2002
Subject: Q. how to drag-n-drop?
Message-ID: <91880924-D72D-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>

So far I haven't seen any examples of handling drag-n-drop in the 
tutorials or user contributions section. Is it hard to do in Rev? For 
instance drag-n-drop to reorder the contents of a ListField.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct  3 19:19:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct  3 19:19:00 2002
Subject: Q. about validating/formatting user input
Message-ID: <0206F9F2-D72E-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>

In Cocoa/ObjC there is this concept of NSFormatter, which both 
validates user input from a text field, and also formats display of the 
content. Is there any similar thing in Rev?

In Rev, what I am thinking about doing is using the keyDown message and 
regex matching to validate the input and allowing or disallowing the 
keystroke that way. However, how can one extent that to entire classes 
or textfields. Seems like it would involve a property and using the 
message path, and I have an idea, but haven't been using rev long 
enough... what's the most elegant way to do this?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct  3 19:29:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct  3 19:29:01 2002
Subject: Q. about size of stack, substacks and cards
Message-ID: <7D7C9C59-D72F-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>

Seems like cards and stacks inherit their default size (width/height) 
from the parent stack or mainstack, correct?

I have this strange situation where a mainstack has a bunch of cards in 
it, and added a menu using Menu Manager, after most of the cards were 
created. After I created the Menu, some of my cards have their size 
shifted by 22 pix, which I guess is the height of the menu group. In 
the first card the contents is shift -22 vertically, so the content is 
going off the top. On subsequent cards, the the height is +22 and 
creates a blank space at the bottom of the cards.

OK, now I made a different stack the mainstack and put the Menu in 
there instead. Seems to be an OK workaround. Am I doing anything wrong 
here, or is this just an inevitable of a menu being a Group?

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct  3 19:31:02 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct  3 19:31:02 2002
Subject: Q. Zen needed...
Message-ID: <BE247326-D72F-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>

I am trying to unlearn my C, ObjC, Perl, Java, Realbasic, etc. 
experience as quickly as possible. Does anyone have any Zen-like 
examples which show the "way" of xtalk languages?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct  3 19:34:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct  3 19:34:00 2002
Subject: Q. about validating/formatting user input
In-Reply-To: <0206F9F2-D72E-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <119C7617-D730-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 06:12  PM, Alex Rice wrote:
>  However, how can one extent that to entire classes or textfields.

Sorry, I meant "how can one EXTEND that to entire classes OF 
textfields?", i.e. groups or sets of fields which may or may not all be 
on the same stack.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct  3 19:41:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct  3 19:41:00 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
Message-ID: <2990339B-D731-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>

I am writing an app which is a long survey followed by a couple of long 
reports. I want to save the state of the survey to disk and have 
different projects which the user names/saves/restores. Each project is 
just the set of answers to the survey questions.

A SQL database is not needed. In the SQL mindset, this data would have 
a handful of rows and maybe too many columns to deal with-- many 
hundreds. I'm sure it could be normalized better, but there is not 
enough data to warrant a SQL database.

Even the Serendipity Library SDB database looks like overkill for this 
app.

So I think I need to use a data stack. What's the most elegant way to 
get cards and/or stacks to write all it's state out to disk, which I 
can go check on later from another stack, and write a report from the 
responses? I hope this question isn't too vague. I'd be glad to tell 
more about the application if it's not clear what I'm asking.

Thanks in advance!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From webmaster at listology.com  Thu Oct  3 19:53:00 2002
From: webmaster at listology.com (Jim Biancolo)
Date: Thu Oct  3 19:53:00 2002
Subject: Q. how to drag-n-drop?
In-Reply-To: <91880924-D72D-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021003204155.02a279b0@mail.berkshire.net>

Hi Alex,

I'm still new to RunRev, so I'm not sure if this is the best way to do it, 
but this is what I did to allow drag-and-drop of images:

   on mouseDown
     repeat while the mouse is down
       move the target to the mouseLoc
     end repeat
   end mouseDown

The thing I thought was nifty was that this code goes in the handler for 
the group that contains the images, so all the images in the group are 
draggable without needing their own mouseDown handlers.

One quibble with this approach would be that if you move the mouse fast the 
object you're dragging tends to lag behind so you have to wait for it to 
"catch up" as you hover over your intended destination.

Jim

At 06:09 PM 10/3/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>So far I haven't seen any examples of handling drag-n-drop in the 
>tutorials or user contributions section. Is it hard to do in Rev? For 
>instance drag-n-drop to reorder the contents of a ListField.
>
>Alex Rice, Software Developer
>Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
>alrice at swcp.com
>alex_rice at arc.to



From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  3 20:21:00 2002
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Thu Oct  3 20:21:00 2002
Subject: Looking for Shao Sean's libSMTP
In-Reply-To: <200210031603.MAA07604@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20021004011406.45283.qmail@web40506.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone on the list,

I try to download libSMTP from the Shao Sean site:
http://www.shaosean.tk/  but the site seems removed.
There's just a message from his personal writings...

Looking in Google, I found this direction too:
http://dark.unitz.ca/~shaosean/software/libSMTP/libSMTP111_mc.zip
but neither works.

Could you check these directions too, please?

And Could anyone send me the libSMTP stacks
(one for Revolution, other for MetaCard) to my
mail: capellan2000 at yahoo.com

Thanks in advance.

Alejandro

P.D. I'm working in an update to the EPSImport stack.
This will let you import linked raster images from
Ilustrator 7 files. Had this utility serve to anyone?





__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Oct  3 21:39:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Oct  3 21:39:01 2002
Subject: simulating clicking a line in a scrolling list field
In-Reply-To: <a05111a03b9c28293bfad@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <875C2EC5-D741-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

How about:

set the hilitedLine of fld "list" to 5
send mouseUp to fld "list"

If you don't want the line visibly selected then:

lock screen
set the hilitedLine of fld "list" to 5
send mouseUp to fld "list"
set the hilitedLine of fld "list" to empty

Sarah


On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 09:26  am, Alan Gayne wrote:

> Greetings to all,
>
> Has anybody got s simple bit of code to simulate the user clicking on 
> a particular line in a scrolling list field?
>
> Something like "click at the location of line 5 of fld "list" (which 
> unfortunately 'does not compute').
>
> It's probably something simple but darned if I can figure it out.
>
> TIA
> Alan Gayne
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Oct  3 21:42:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Oct  3 21:42:01 2002
Subject: Q. about size of stack, substacks and cards
In-Reply-To: <a05111a0db9c2909e0a3d@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <E7317664-D741-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Your method of putting the menu in a separate stack is fine. 
Alternatively, if you place the menubar group on each card, then all 
the cards in that stack will be shrunk by 22 pixels. Something that I 
need to remember and almost never do :-( is create the menu FIRST!!! 
before adding any objects to your cards/stack.

Sarah

On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 10:26  am, Alex Rice wrote:

> Seems like cards and stacks inherit their default size (width/height) 
> from the parent stack or mainstack, correct?
>
> I have this strange situation where a mainstack has a bunch of cards 
> in it, and added a menu using Menu Manager, after most of the cards 
> were created. After I created the Menu, some of my cards have their 
> size shifted by 22 pix, which I guess is the height of the menu group. 
> In the first card the contents is shift -22 vertically, so the content 
> is going off the top. On subsequent cards, the the height is +22 and 
> creates a blank space at the bottom of the cards.
>
> OK, now I made a different stack the mainstack and put the Menu in 
> there instead. Seems to be an OK workaround. Am I doing anything wrong 
> here, or is this just an inevitable of a menu being a Group?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> alrice at swcp.com
> alex_rice at arc.to
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Oct  3 21:47:02 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Oct  3 21:47:02 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <a05111a13b9c29768a1a8@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <B60F4A6B-D742-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

If you are going to be reading your saved data from another stack, the 
easiest thing is probably to save a copy of the data stack somewhere. 
Then your reader stack can just open the saved data stack at any stage. 
When you build your app, make sure it saves the substacks into separate 
files. This will allow your data stack to be saved (so long as it isn't 
the mainStack) either to it's default location or to your storage 
location.

Sarah

On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 10:55  am, Alex Rice wrote:

> I am writing an app which is a long survey followed by a couple of 
> long reports. I want to save the state of the survey to disk and have 
> different projects which the user names/saves/restores. Each project 
> is just the set of answers to the survey questions.
>
> A SQL database is not needed. In the SQL mindset, this data would have 
> a handful of rows and maybe too many columns to deal with-- many 
> hundreds. I'm sure it could be normalized better, but there is not 
> enough data to warrant a SQL database.
>
> Even the Serendipity Library SDB database looks like overkill for this 
> app.
>
> So I think I need to use a data stack. What's the most elegant way to 
> get cards and/or stacks to write all it's state out to disk, which I 
> can go check on later from another stack, and write a report from the 
> responses? I hope this question isn't too vague. I'd be glad to tell 
> more about the application if it's not clear what I'm asking.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> alrice at swcp.com
> alex_rice at arc.to
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct  3 21:53:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct  3 21:53:01 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
References: <2990339B-D731-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <01a901c26b4f$ae713b80$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Alex,

Why don't you just maintain the data in an external text file? Then, you can
read and write it as simply as:

  put url ("file:" & tFileName) into tData

and

  put tData into url ("file:" & tFileName)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Rice" <alex at mindlube.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 7:35 PM
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design


> I am writing an app which is a long survey followed by a couple of long
> reports. I want to save the state of the survey to disk and have
> different projects which the user names/saves/restores. Each project is
> just the set of answers to the survey questions.
>
> A SQL database is not needed. In the SQL mindset, this data would have
> a handful of rows and maybe too many columns to deal with-- many
> hundreds. I'm sure it could be normalized better, but there is not
> enough data to warrant a SQL database.
>
> Even the Serendipity Library SDB database looks like overkill for this
> app.
>
> So I think I need to use a data stack. What's the most elegant way to
> get cards and/or stacks to write all it's state out to disk, which I
> can go check on later from another stack, and write a report from the
> responses? I hope this question isn't too vague. I'd be glad to tell
> more about the application if it's not clear what I'm asking.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> alrice at swcp.com
> alex_rice at arc.to
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct  3 21:53:11 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct  3 21:53:11 2002
Subject: simulating clicking a line in a scrolling list field
References: <1393F4D0-D727-11D6-8D82-000393158950@mac.com>
Message-ID: <019801c26b4f$52896680$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Alan,

Try:

  set the hilitedLines of fld "list" to 5

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Gayne" <alanIra9 at mac.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 6:23 PM
Subject: simulating clicking a line in a scrolling list field


> Greetings to all,
> 
> Has anybody got s simple bit of code to simulate the user clicking on a 
> particular line in a scrolling list field?
> 
> Something like "click at the location of line 5 of fld "list" (which 
> unfortunately 'does not compute').
> 
> It's probably something simple but darned if I can figure it out.
> 
> TIA
> Alan Gayne
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct  3 21:55:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct  3 21:55:01 2002
Subject: Q. how to drag-n-drop?
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021003204155.02a279b0@mail.berkshire.net>
Message-ID: <01ae01c26b4f$f219f110$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Jim,

Even easier:

  on mouseDown
    grab the target
  end mouseDown

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Biancolo" <webmaster at listology.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: Q. how to drag-n-drop?


> Hi Alex,
>
> I'm still new to RunRev, so I'm not sure if this is the best way to do it,
> but this is what I did to allow drag-and-drop of images:
>
>    on mouseDown
>      repeat while the mouse is down
>        move the target to the mouseLoc
>      end repeat
>    end mouseDown
>
> The thing I thought was nifty was that this code goes in the handler for
> the group that contains the images, so all the images in the group are
> draggable without needing their own mouseDown handlers.
>
> One quibble with this approach would be that if you move the mouse fast
the
> object you're dragging tends to lag behind so you have to wait for it to
> "catch up" as you hover over your intended destination.
>
> Jim
>
> At 06:09 PM 10/3/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> >So far I haven't seen any examples of handling drag-n-drop in the
> >tutorials or user contributions section. Is it hard to do in Rev? For
> >instance drag-n-drop to reorder the contents of a ListField.
> >
> >Alex Rice, Software Developer
> >Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> >alrice at swcp.com
> >alex_rice at arc.to
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Thu Oct  3 22:01:01 2002
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Thu Oct  3 22:01:01 2002
Subject: simulating clicking a line in a scrolling list field
In-Reply-To: <200210040148.VAA19819@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9C24E80.1BF2%dan@clearvisiontech.com>

Alan,

Try this:

On something
    set the hilitedLines of field "list" to tNumber
    send "mouseUp" to field "list"
End something

Hope that works for you.

-Dan


> Greetings to all,
> 
> Has anybody got s simple bit of code to simulate the user clicking on a
> particular line in a scrolling list field?
> 
> Something like "click at the location of line 5 of fld "list" (which
> unfortunately 'does not compute').
> 
> It's probably something simple but darned if I can figure it out.
> 
> TIA
> Alan Gayne



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct  3 22:25:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct  3 22:25:00 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <B60F4A6B-D742-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <110C1F43-D748-11D6-9080-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 08:40  PM, Sarah wrote:

> If you are going to be reading your saved data from another stack, the 
> easiest thing is probably to save a copy of the data stack somewhere. 
> Then your reader stack can just open the saved data stack at any 
> stage. When you build your app, make sure it saves the substacks into 
> separate files. This will allow your data stack to be saved (so long 
> as it isn't the mainStack) either to it's default location or to your 
> storage location.

What is a data stack, just a hidden stack with a big Field in it?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From joe.gardner at nwa.com  Thu Oct  3 22:47:01 2002
From: joe.gardner at nwa.com (Gardner, Joseph A)
Date: Thu Oct  3 22:47:01 2002
Subject: Weird Output from revPrintField
Message-ID: <AF45F70949BC0345941B805B32299702015719E7@FMMSPJ35.pad.nwa.com>

Howard, thanks for the feedback. Strangely enough, this behavior has now disappeared and the field prints normally (that is, one line of the field = one printed line from the HP :). I didn't do anything with the stack except close it one day and open it the next. The PC and printer haven't changed at all, either. Weird. The problem with the revShowPrintDialog still exists though, but this is very minor as there really is nothing to set up for these print jobs. I'm still thinking of RunRev as a beta application (especially the Windows version ;), so I'm not too worried when something doesn't work right. I know they'll get it sussed out eventually when the real thing is released.

Thanks!

joe.



From joe.gardner at nwa.com  Thu Oct  3 22:57:01 2002
From: joe.gardner at nwa.com (Gardner, Joseph A)
Date: Thu Oct  3 22:57:01 2002
Subject: Where to Put a Send Handler?
Message-ID: <AF45F70949BC0345941B805B32299702015719E8@FMMSPJ35.pad.nwa.com>

Hello again, folks. I'm trying to write a simple handler to send a mouseUp message to a button every 60 seconds. I've read the docs on send vs. idle and believe I have the syntax correct:

on updateFiles
  send "mouseUp" to button "GetFiles"
  send "updateFiles" to me in 60 seconds
end updateFiles

I got this structure from the docs. But where does it go? In the stack script? In the card script? In the "GetFiles" button script? I've tried all three, but the mouseUp never gets sent to the button automatically. Entering the send in the Message Box works perfectly, of course. Any suggestions on where to put a repeating timed handler for best results?

TIA...

joe.


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Oct  3 23:04:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Oct  3 23:04:01 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <a05111a58b9c2b9e0b5db@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <76F58F04-D74D-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

It is a separate stack and can be hidden or visible. The main point is 
that it is not the mainStack of the file. When you build an 
application, you can either have it all in one file, or put the 
substacks in separate files. If the application is all in one file, it 
is read-only and no data can be saved as part of the application (you 
can always use external files to save). If you make an application with 
separate substacks, all but the main stack are writable and can store 
your data.

Sarah

On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 01:22  pm, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 08:40  PM, Sarah wrote:
>
>> If you are going to be reading your saved data from another stack, 
>> the easiest thing is probably to save a copy of the data stack 
>> somewhere. Then your reader stack can just open the saved data stack 
>> at any stage. When you build your app, make sure it saves the 
>> substacks into separate files. This will allow your data stack to be 
>> saved (so long as it isn't the mainStack) either to it's default 
>> location or to your storage location.
>
> What is a data stack, just a hidden stack with a big Field in it?
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> alrice at swcp.com
> alex_rice at arc.to
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct  3 23:10:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct  3 23:10:01 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <01a901c26b4f$ae713b80$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <3E127E5F-D74E-11D6-9080-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 08:42  PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Alex,
>
> Why don't you just maintain the data in an external text file? Then, 
> you can
> read and write it as simply as:
>
>   put url ("file:" & tFileName) into tData
>
> and
>
>   put tData into url ("file:" & tFileName)

That's a good idea. But how it the best way to synchronize dozens of 
cards and hundreds of fields and buttons with the tData variable?


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Oct  3 23:17:00 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Thu Oct  3 23:17:00 2002
Subject: Where to Put a Send Handler?
In-Reply-To: <a05111a60b9c2c15d7709@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <4639FD17-D74F-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Your syntax is fine, but you need a way to start things off. If you 
want the handler to run when the stack is opened, put it in the stack 
script and make an openStack handler as follows:

on openstack
	updateFiles
end openStack

If you want this to run when a particular card is opened, then do the 
same in the card script but with an openCard handler.

You could also forget the updateFiles handler altogether if you wanted. 
In your openStack (or openCard) say:
	send mouseUp to btn "Files"
Then at the end of the mouseUp handler, have a line that says:
	send mouseUp to me in 60 seconds

A couple of things to beware of: if you refer to a button or field and 
then change card or stack, the script may fail. Either cancel the sent 
message when leaving the card/stack or use complete addresses e.g. put 
"Test" into field 1 of card 3 of stack "Main"

Secondly, it is possible for sent messages to multiply. This can lead 
to strange effects if the repeating handler occurs more & more 
frequently. I prefer to cancel any existing messages before sending a 
new one. You can do this by looping through the pendingMessages and 
canceling any that come from the same object e.g. if your button ID = 
1003 then:
   put the pendingMessages into pendMsg
   repeat for each line L in pendMsg
       if item 3 of L contains "ID 1003" then cancel item 1 of L
     end if
   end repeat

Cheers,
Sarah

On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 01:54  pm, Gardner, Joseph A wrote:

> Hello again, folks. I'm trying to write a simple handler to send a 
> mouseUp message to a button every 60 seconds. I've read the docs on 
> send vs. idle and believe I have the syntax correct:
>
> on updateFiles
>   send "mouseUp" to button "GetFiles"
>   send "updateFiles" to me in 60 seconds
> end updateFiles
>
> I got this structure from the docs. But where does it go? In the stack 
> script? In the card script? In the "GetFiles" button script? I've 
> tried all three, but the mouseUp never gets sent to the button 
> automatically. Entering the send in the Message Box works perfectly, 
> of course. Any suggestions on where to put a repeating timed handler 
> for best results?
>
> TIA...
>
> joe.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From terry at discovery.nl  Thu Oct  3 23:19:00 2002
From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Thu Oct  3 23:19:00 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <01a901c26b4f$ae713b80$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <B9C2E1A9.18228%terry@discovery.nl>

> Why don't you just maintain the data in an external text file? Then, you can
> read and write it as simply as:
> 
> put url ("file:" & tFileName) into tData
> 
> and
> 
> put tData into url ("file:" & tFileName)
> 
> Ken Ray

Sometimes this is a good solution, but there is a possible problem you have
to keep in mind:
When you develop for a multi-platform app and the text file is brought from
one platform to another, you have to keep in mind that the text can contain
upper-ascii chars (international chars, etc.). They are automatically taken
care of when in a field, but you have to do that 'yourself' (call the
MacToISO or the ISOToMac function) when the text is in a text file (or in a
custom prop). But if a text is already ISO encoded and you use MacToISO, you
get output that is incorrect on any platform. So you have to know where the
text comes from to do this right. And that is not always obvious.

Terry




From jeanne at runrev.com  Thu Oct  3 23:23:00 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu Oct  3 23:23:00 2002
Subject: Q. about size of stack, substacks and cards
In-Reply-To: <7D7C9C59-D72F-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <v03130306b9c2bf86e157@[10.0.1.2]>

At 5:23 PM -0700 10/3/2002, Alex Rice wrote:
>Seems like cards and stacks inherit their default size (width/height)
>from the parent stack or mainstack, correct?

True for cards, but not for stacks (a substack can be any size; it's not
dependent on its main stack's size).

>I have this strange situation where a mainstack has a bunch of cards in
>it, and added a menu using Menu Manager, after most of the cards were
>created. After I created the Menu, some of my cards have their size
>shifted by 22 pix, which I guess is the height of the menu group. In
>the first card the contents is shift -22 vertically, so the content is
>going off the top. On subsequent cards, the the height is +22 and
>creates a blank space at the bottom of the cards.

It's a consequence of the way cross-platform menus are handled. On Windows
and Unix, the menu bar appears in the top of the window. On Macs, it's
placed at the top of the window, but since it doesn't need to actually
appear there - since the Mac uses a separate menu bar - the stack is
resized and scrolled up so the group is hidden on that platform. That way,
the same stack can be used on all platforms without changes.

Check out the "editMenus" property in the Transcript Dictionary, and the
"About menus and the menu bar" topic, for more background on this.

(The next version of Rev will automatically place a menubar group created
with the Menu Manager on all cards, and I've added some
strategically-placed comments on this to the docs, so this should cause
less confusion.)

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Thu Oct  3 23:24:02 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu Oct  3 23:24:02 2002
Subject: [Bug ?] Replace and TextStyle
In-Reply-To: <3D9BFEA5.8050000@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <v03130309b9c2c387d255@[10.0.1.2]>

At 1:24 AM -0700 10/3/2002, Ludovic Thebault wrote:
>When i use the replace command (or replacetext) on a fld, the textstyle
>of the fld is set to plain.
>
>How prevent it ?

Try using replace on the htmlText of the field instead:

  get the htmlText of field "My Field"
  replace "foo" with "bar" in it
  set the htmlText of field "My Field" to it

(Of course, if your replace text may match a tag, things will be a little
more complicated....)

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Thu Oct  3 23:24:12 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu Oct  3 23:24:12 2002
Subject: [HELP] close a modal stack !
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020930234357.00a69ce8@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <3D9447D6.7080303@laposte.net>
 <CA2BDC3F-D20B-11D6-92A0-003065D52E8E@metascape.org>
Message-ID: <v0313030ab9c2c427f7d4@[10.0.1.2]>

At 8:45 PM -0700 9/30/2002, Geoff Canyon wrote:
>You can also pop a contextual menu to change the mode of the stack
>directly, even when it is opened as a modal dialog. On a PC, hold down
>shift-control and right click. On a Mac, I think it is
>command-option-shift-click. Can anyone confirm?

Command-control-shift-click on a Mac.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Thu Oct  3 23:28:00 2002
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (Ron)
Date: Thu Oct  3 23:28:00 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <01a901c26b4f$ae713b80$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <B9C346E6.946B%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Ken, and others,
Would you care to comment on the pro/cons of maintaining a data file or a
preference file as an external text file rather than, say, a user prop of a
data/pref stack? 


Is it simply a matter of 'style' or are there distinct advantages to each?

Thanks
Ron


> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:42:28 -0500
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Q. data stacks and app design
> 
> Alex,
> 
> Why don't you just maintain the data in an external text file? Then, you can
> read and write it as simply as:
> 
> put url ("file:" & tFileName) into tData
> 
> and
> 
> put tData into url ("file:" & tFileName)
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Rice" <alex at mindlube.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 7:35 PM
> Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
> 
>> 
>> So I think I need to use a data stack. What's the most elegant way to
>> get cards and/or stacks to write all it's state out to disk, which I
>> can go check on later from another stack, and write a report from the
>> responses? I hope this question isn't too vague. I'd be glad to tell
>> more about the application if it's not clear what I'm asking.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance!
>> 
>> Alex Rice, Software Developer



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct  3 23:28:24 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct  3 23:28:24 2002
Subject: Where to Put a Send Handler?
References: <AF45F70949BC0345941B805B32299702015719E8@FMMSPJ35.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <021301c26b5c$f881bad0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Joseph,

You can put your code below anywhere you'd like, but you have to "kick off"
the updateFiles message at the beginning; so if you want it to start as soon
as your stack opens, you'd put your code in the stack script, with an
"updateFiles" call in an openStack handler:

on openStack
  updateFiles
end openStack

on updateFiles
  send "mouseUp" to button "GetFiles"
  send "updateFiles" to me in 60 seconds
end updateFiles

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gardner, Joseph A" <joe.gardner at nwa.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:50 PM
Subject: Where to Put a Send Handler?


> Hello again, folks. I'm trying to write a simple handler to send a mouseUp
message to a button every 60 seconds. I've read the docs on send vs. idle
and believe I have the syntax correct:
>
> on updateFiles
>   send "mouseUp" to button "GetFiles"
>   send "updateFiles" to me in 60 seconds
> end updateFiles
>
> I got this structure from the docs. But where does it go? In the stack
script? In the card script? In the "GetFiles" button script? I've tried all
three, but the mouseUp never gets sent to the button automatically. Entering
the send in the Message Box works perfectly, of course. Any suggestions on
where to put a repeating timed handler for best results?
>
> TIA...
>
> joe.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct  3 23:50:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Oct  3 23:50:01 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <B9C346E6.946B%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <B9C26ADE.1DB22%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Ron wrote:

> Would you care to comment on the pro/cons of maintaining a data file or a
> preference file as an external text file rather than, say, a user prop of a
> data/pref stack? 

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-July/006141.html>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct  4 00:22:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri Oct  4 00:22:00 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
References: <B9C346E6.946B%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <023a01c26b64$73e27dc0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Ron,

I'd say that it generally has to do with the size of the data: if it's
*really small*, custom props work great, but you have to be careful not to
try and set custom props of your standalone because that data won't be saved
when you quit. If you're keeping small amounts of data, an external file has
its advantages because it is quick to read and write to. However if you have
a *lot* of data, and the data is more or less organized into "records", a
database connection is probably best if you can set it up that way.
Otherwise, a stack that has the same cloned architecture as the stack
presented to the user for data entry is good because you get that 1:1
relationship between fields and you can write a simple "put field x of stack
<A> into field x of stack <B>)" kind of script.

The other thing that seems to me to be easier to maintain in custom props is
data that needs to be in an array form. Since custom props already are
basically arrays, you can take advantage of that without having to worry
about data delimiters you'd have in files/databases/cloned stacks.

That's my $0.02, anyone else want to chime in?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Q. data stacks and app design


> Ken, and others,
> Would you care to comment on the pro/cons of maintaining a data file or a
> preference file as an external text file rather than, say, a user prop of
a
> data/pref stack?
>
>
> Is it simply a matter of 'style' or are there distinct advantages to each?
>
> Thanks
> Ron
>
>
> > From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> > Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> > Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:42:28 -0500
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Subject: Re: Q. data stacks and app design
> >
> > Alex,
> >
> > Why don't you just maintain the data in an external text file? Then, you
can
> > read and write it as simply as:
> >
> > put url ("file:" & tFileName) into tData
> >
> > and
> >
> > put tData into url ("file:" & tFileName)
> >
> > Ken Ray
> > Sons of Thunder Software
> > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alex Rice" <alex at mindlube.com>
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 7:35 PM
> > Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
> >
> >>
> >> So I think I need to use a data stack. What's the most elegant way to
> >> get cards and/or stacks to write all it's state out to disk, which I
> >> can go check on later from another stack, and write a report from the
> >> responses? I hope this question isn't too vague. I'd be glad to tell
> >> more about the application if it's not clear what I'm asking.
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance!
> >>
> >> Alex Rice, Software Developer
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  4 00:39:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri Oct  4 00:39:00 2002
Subject: Q. how to drag-n-drop?
In-Reply-To: <91880924-D72D-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <20021004053324.16304.qmail@web11902.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com> wrote:
> So far I haven't seen any examples of handling
> drag-n-drop in the 
> tutorials or user contributions section. Is it hard
> to do in Rev? For 
> instance drag-n-drop to reorder the contents of a
> ListField.
> 

Hi Alex,

My memory kicked in at the right time for once, and I
remembered someone on this list posting his thoughts
to that effect a few months ago.
Here are some relevant links to the archives:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-February/002442.html
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-February/002562.html

Hope this helped, even if it's not clean code.


=====
Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Oct  4 00:43:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Oct  4 00:43:00 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <023a01c26b64$73e27dc0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <47FE267C-D75B-11D6-9080-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 11:11  PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>
> The other thing that seems to me to be easier to maintain in custom 
> props is
> data that needs to be in an array form. Since custom props already are
> basically arrays, you can take advantage of that without having to 
> worry
> about data delimiters you'd have in files/databases/cloned stacks.
>
> That's my $0.02, anyone else want to chime in?

This is awesome, guys. I just read Richard's post from July too, thanks!

But, I'm not understanding the differences/trade-offs between cloning 
stacks vs. put/set the data to a stack's custom props. (as in Richard's 
post)

Sounds like custom props is the way to go for my app!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  4 01:05:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri Oct  4 01:05:00 2002
Subject: Q. about validating/formatting user input
In-Reply-To: <0206F9F2-D72E-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <20021004055903.26304.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com> wrote:
> In Cocoa/ObjC there is this concept of NSFormatter,
> which both 
> validates user input from a text field, and also
> formats display of the 
> content. Is there any similar thing in Rev?
> 
> In Rev, what I am thinking about doing is using the
> keyDown message and 
> regex matching to validate the input and allowing or
> disallowing the 
> keystroke that way. However, how can one extent that
> to entire classes 
> or textfields. Seems like it would involve a
> property and using the 
> message path, and I have an idea, but haven't been
> using rev long 
> enough... what's the most elegant way to do this?
> 

Hi Alex,

Just thought I'd chime in on this one, as it's a topic
I've been working on lately. Here's a script for
numeric fields (copy&paste this time, so none of my
infamous typos ;-)

---- SCRIPT FOR A NUMERIC FIELD ----

local sBeforePaste

on keyDown pWhichKey
  put the selectedChunk into tChunk
  put word 2 of tChunk into tStart
  put word 4 of tChunk into tStop
  if tStart > tStop then
    put (char 1 to tStop of me) & pWhichKey into \
      tCheckString
    if length(me) > tStart then
      put (char tStart to -1 of me) after \
        tCheckString
    end if
  else
    put (char 1 to tStart - 1 of me) & pWhichKey \
      into tCheckString
    if length(me) > tStop then
      put (char tStop + 1 to -1 of me) after \
        tCheckString
    end if
  end if
  if Conv4Calc(tCheckString) is a number then \
    pass keyDown
  else beep
end keyDown

-- field formatting
on closeField
  send "formatField" to me in 5 milliseconds
  pass closeField
end closeField

on formatField
  put the text of me into tNumber
  put Conv4Disp(Conv4Calc(tNumber)) into me
end formatField

-- handle paste in field
-- NOTE :: doesn't work when Rev UI is ON
on pasteKey
  put the text of me into sBeforePaste
  send "checkAfterPaste" to me in 5 milliseconds
  pass pasteKey
end pasteKey

on checkAfterPaste
  put the text of me into tAfterPaste
  if Conv4Calc(tAfterPaste) is not a number then
    beep
    put sBeforePaste into me
  end if
end checkAfterPaste

-- convert to and from MC/RR number format to display
-- format
function Conv4Calc pNumber
  -- strip out the thousand separators (if any)
  put the uThousandSeparator of me into t1000Sep
  if t1000Sep is not empty then replace t1000Sep \
    with empty in pNumber
  -- change the decimal point to a period
  put the uDecimalPoint of me into tDecPoint
  if tDecPoint is not empty and tDecPoint is not \
    "." then replace tDecPoint with "." in pNumber
  -- should now be a regular number for MC/RR
  -- calculations
  return pNumber
end Conv4Calc

function Conv4Disp pNumber
  -- convert to the chose floating point format
  put the uFormat of me into tFormat
  if tFormat is empty then put "%16.2f" into tFormat
  put format(tFormat, pNumber) into tNumber
  -- remove leading spaces
  replace " " with empty in tNumber
  -- split up the number into the sign, integer and
  -- decimal part
  local tMinusHold, tMainNumber, tDecimalHold
  get matchText(tNumber, \
    "([-]?)([0-9]*)[\.]?([0-9]*)", tMinusHold, \
    tMainNumber, tDecimalHold)
  -- tweak tDecimalHold
  put the uDecimalPoint of me into tDecPoint
  if tDecPoint is empty then put "." into tDecPoint
  if tDecimalHold is not empty then put tDecPoint \
    before tDecimalHold
  -- insert the thousand separators
  put the uThousandSeparator of me into t1000Sep
  if t1000Sep is not empty then
    -- determine how many separators to place
    put length(tMainNumber) into tLength
    put (tLength DIV 3) into tSeps
    if (tLength MOD 3) = 0 then subtract 1 from tSeps
    repeat with i = tSeps down to 1
      put t1000Sep before char - (i * 3) of \
        tMainNumber
    end repeat
  end if
  -- finally put it all together
  return tMinusHold & tMainNumber & tDecimalHold
end Conv4Disp

---- PROPERTIES YOU CAN SET :
uFormat = the format in admittedly a C-style ; check
  the format-function in the Trascript Dictionary
  (defaults to "%16.2f")
uDecimalPoint = the decimal point to display ; a lot
  of countries in Europe use a comma
  (defaults to ".")
uThousandSeparator = the separator between thousands ;

  some people don't want any, others a space, others a
  comma, and Europeans may want a period to complement
  their decimal comma
  (defaults to none)

---- END OF NUMERIC FIELD STUFF


As for extending it to entire classes of textfields,
that's quite a different matter. It's on my to-do
list, but I think one could do quite a bit by using
the "frontScript" feature.
After revising the script above so that all references
to "me" are properly changed to "the target" and its
properties, we could move that into a field of its own
in a library stack.
Then we could 'activate' this script in any field by
setting its script to:

on openField
  insert the script of field "NumericInputOnly" of \
    card 1 of stack "myLib" into front
end openField

on closeField
  remove the script of field "NumericInputOnly" of \
    card 1 of stack "myLib" from front
end closeField

(Note that this is untested, so I could be off by the
length of a small football field)

Long post, but I hope it helped.


=====
Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From jeanne at runrev.com  Fri Oct  4 01:15:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri Oct  4 01:15:01 2002
Subject: Q. about validating/formatting user input
In-Reply-To: <0206F9F2-D72E-11D6-B0F5-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <v0313030bb9c2de6b2387@[10.0.1.2]>

At 5:12 PM -0700 10/3/2002, Alex Rice wrote:
>In Cocoa/ObjC there is this concept of NSFormatter, which both
>validates user input from a text field, and also formats display of the
>content. Is there any similar thing in Rev?
>
>In Rev, what I am thinking about doing is using the keyDown message and
>regex matching to validate the input and allowing or disallowing the
>keystroke that way. However, how can one extent that to entire classes
>or textfields. Seems like it would involve a property and using the
>message path, and I have an idea, but haven't been using rev long
>enough... what's the most elegant way to do this?

One way would be to place a keyDown handler in the stack script, then test
it to see whether the target has a certain custom property set, and do the
formatting if so. A simple example:

  on keyDown theKey -- in stack script
    if the acceptOnlyDigits of the target is true then
      if theKey is not in "0123456789" then
        beep
        exit keyDown
      end if
    end if
    pass keyDown
  end keyDown

Then you set a custom property called "acceptOnlyDigits" for any field in
the stack that you want to set up the behavior for.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Oct  4 01:15:12 2002
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Fri Oct  4 01:15:12 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <110C1F43-D748-11D6-9080-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <B9C28133.5B01%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 10/3/02 8:19 PM, Alex Rice at alex at mindlube.com wrote:
 
> What is a data stack, just a hidden stack with a big Field in it?
----------
Hi Alex,

I'm a "newbie" too, although I've done some developing in HyperCard over the
years, and am close to releasing some adaptive/freeware for the Mac written
in HC and designed specifically for older machines.

For a number of reasons I haven't gotten into Rev's more complex UI (I'm not
a pro-programmer), but I'm redeveloping my programming philosophy to work
with it, and to include the advantages of using data stacks, even in HC.

Two main examples:

1) Feature options and preferences -- You can design your stack to add more
of these as plugins later, thus effectively updating it without rewriting
the main UI. 

2) Saved data -- You can design your stack to save data it uses to work with
separately. This way you can just back up the text, numbers, images, sounds,
or whatever, elsewhere, so if you have a crash, all your work will be safe
instead of being lost with the app.

What it means is using the basic RR/MC model. You develop a main stack and
some substacks as a UI, a front-end which is mainly just menus, button
controls, and indexes that manipulate and display stuff you store in other
stacks.

Hope this makes sense to you.

Ken N.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct  4 01:20:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Oct  4 01:20:01 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <47FE267C-D75B-11D6-9080-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <B9C27FD7.1DB38%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> But, I'm not understanding the differences/trade-offs between cloning
> stacks vs. put/set the data to a stack's custom props. (as in Richard's
> post)

Two different animals: cloning creates user interface elements on the fly.
Props store data.

You can store data in cloned stacks that also have a UI, with the potential
draw back that your "documents" now also contain code, so if you need to
update code you have to not only change the code in your app, but als in all
of your user's documents.

On the flipside, moving data from data-only stacks into UI stacks for dsplay
may be more trouble than its worth for some circumstances.

What are you making?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Fri Oct  4 01:37:01 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE)
Date: Fri Oct  4 01:37:01 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <47FE267C-D75B-11D6-9080-000393529642@mindlube.com>
References: <47FE267C-D75B-11D6-9080-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <p05100300b9c2e21658c2@[10.0.1.202]>

>On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 11:11  PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>>
>>The other thing that seems to me to be easier to maintain in custom props is
>>data that needs to be in an array form. Since custom props already are
>>basically arrays, you can take advantage of that without having to worry
>>about data delimiters you'd have in files/databases/cloned stacks.
>>
>>That's my $0.02, anyone else want to chime in?
>
>This is awesome, guys. I just read Richard's post from July too, thanks!
>
>But, I'm not understanding the differences/trade-offs between 
>cloning stacks vs. put/set the data to a stack's custom props. (as 
>in Richard's post)
>
>Sounds like custom props is the way to go for my app!
>



I've made a big database based only on external text files.
It runs very fast but this is limited to MAC only because of the ASCII code
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Fri Oct  4 02:03:01 2002
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (Ron)
Date: Fri Oct  4 02:03:01 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design -thanks
In-Reply-To: <B9C26ADE.1DB22%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B9C36B3C.947C%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Thanks Richard and Ken

> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 21:45:02 -0700
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Q. data stacks and app design
> 
> Ron wrote:
> 
>> Would you care to comment on the pro/cons of maintaining a data file or a
>> preference file as an external text file rather than, say, a user prop of a
>> data/pref stack?
> 
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-July/006141.html>
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin 
> Fourth World Media Corporation



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct  4 02:04:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Oct  4 02:04:01 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <p05100300b9c2e21658c2@[10.0.1.202]>
Message-ID: <B9C28A41.1DB46%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

yves COPPE wrote:

> I've made a big database based only on external text files.
> It runs very fast but this is limited to MAC only because of the ASCII code

Which ASCII code?

Remeber you have macToISO and ISOToMac, as well as the replace command and
other ways to manipulate text.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Fri Oct  4 04:05:01 2002
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Fri Oct  4 04:05:01 2002
Subject: FTP problem (Jan Schenkel)
In-Reply-To: <3D98E943.168DA6A8@poolcreative.com>
References: <200209291049.GAA12145@www.runrev.com>
 <3D98E943.168DA6A8@poolcreative.com>
Message-ID: <p05111b01b9c2fe66ea0f@[192.168.123.3]>

At 10:16 am +1000 1/10/02, Brendan Bonsack wrote:
>Hi Jan
>
>Thanks for your persistence!  I am using the latest Download of 
>RunRev (version 1.1.1). A text transfer works perfectly. I have
>pasted a typical log field below, and nothing looks particularly 
>wrong, unless I'm missing something (I hope I am!). I have also
>played around with active/passive modes, but both yield the same 
>result. The transfer succeeds, but the resulting file on the
>server is 0 bytes long. I am using the Starter Kit version of 
>Revolution, but should this make a difference?
>
>
>-220 Serv-U FTP-Server v2.5k for WinSock ready...
>-331 User name okay, need password.
>-230 User logged in, proceed.
>-257 "/poolcreative" is current directory.
>-200 Type set to I.
>-200 PORT Command successful.
>-150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for testfile.gif.
>-226-Maximum disk quota limited to 50000 Kbytes
>-    Used disk quota 25862 Kbytes, available 24137 Kbytes
>-226 Transfer complete.
>
>
>
>Cheers
>Brendan

I just got this mail now (I guess there was a backlog on a server 
somewhere.) Do you still have the problem?

The log shows that everything went fine, so I agree with Jan that it 
would be useful to check in your script that you actually have data 
to send.

There was some earlier confusion about the line in your script that 
read the data from the file. It might be useful to show us the script 
you are currently using.

Cheers
Dave


From sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com  Fri Oct  4 04:36:01 2002
From: sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sylvain_Le_Gourri=E9rec?=)
Date: Fri Oct  4 04:36:01 2002
Subject: set the raisepalettes to false
Message-ID: <000801c26b88$8ee17620$6601a8c0@sylvax>

hello,

I usually start my revolution session with "set the raisepalettes to false" in the msg box.

how can I automate that?

where are the preferences that I could change?

thanks
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From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  4 06:02:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri Oct  4 06:02:01 2002
Subject: set the raisepalettes to false
In-Reply-To: <000801c26b88$8ee17620$6601a8c0@sylvax>
Message-ID: <20021004105549.32926.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sylvain_Le_Gourri?rec
<sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com> wrote:
> hello,
> 
> I usually start my revolution session with "set the
> raisepalettes to false" in the msg box.
> 
> how can I automate that?
> 
> where are the preferences that I could change?
> 
> thanks

Hi Sylvain,

You could make your very first plug-in for exactly
that purpose:
1) make a new stack and set its stack script to
  on openStack
    set the raisePalettes to false
    -- anything you want done at startup
    pass openStack
  end openStack

2) resize the stack a bit, add a little artwork and
push it somewhere out of the way (optional)

3) give it a name that starts with "rev" so it doesn't
show up in the Application Overview window -- unless
you want just that, for easy editing.

4) save it in the folder named "plugins"

Next time you start Revolution, it will execute the
"openStack" handler, effectively setting the
raisePalettes property to false.

You know, with a bit of thinking, one could actually
make a small plug-in with a text field in which we can
type commands, and they're executed on startup.
Any volunteers?


=====
Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Oct  4 07:16:00 2002
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Fri Oct  4 07:16:00 2002
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #731 - 18 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200210031603.MAA07604@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <244ED52E-D792-11D6-AE57-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

On Donnerstag, Oktober 3, 2002, at 06:03  Uhr, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

>> Strange as in may seem, searching hi and lo over the entire universe 
>> we
>> cannot find any decent FTP Web site synchronization for the Mac. This
>> is to synchronize two sites on different servers where one is a local
>> directory (containing an entire public_html folder/files)  on our
>> staging server on the LAN and the other is the "distribution" site  on
>> the ISP's server in Honolulu.  Has any one created this using
>> Revolution?
>
> I thought about it, but the one built into GoLive has been doing such 
> a good
> job I've never really pursued it.

Have a look at Transmit.
http://www.panic.com/

Very mac like and I thinks can do what you need. I did it when I worked 
with Golive because in the first versions of GL the ftp not allways 
worked fine. Not use it so much now since I have changed to freeway 
wich does a perfect ftp synchronization with the server.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?

INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From Doug_Ivers at lord.com  Fri Oct  4 08:30:01 2002
From: Doug_Ivers at lord.com (Ivers, Doug E)
Date: Fri Oct  4 08:30:01 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
Message-ID: <E08533A454364A4C8B395EA007D1F42309D70B@ntsrvcrd04.main.lord.com>

This is a fascinating topic.  Seems that if you do it right, you can implement some aspects of databases.  For example, I was thinking about creating a foreign language dictionary which relates English words to words of the other language, including links between synonyms.  Anyone have suggestions on a good way do implement this?


-- D


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Gaskin [mailto:ambassador at fourthworld.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:45 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Q. data stacks and app design
> 
> 
> Ron wrote:
> 
> > Would you care to comment on the pro/cons of maintaining a 
> data file or a
> > preference file as an external text file rather than, say, 
> a user prop of a
> > data/pref stack? 
> 
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-July/00
6141.html>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From webmaster at listology.com  Fri Oct  4 09:23:00 2002
From: webmaster at listology.com (Jim Biancolo)
Date: Fri Oct  4 09:23:00 2002
Subject: Q. how to drag-n-drop?
In-Reply-To: <01ae01c26b4f$f219f110$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021003204155.02a279b0@mail.berkshire.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021004101459.029d3f68@mail.berkshire.net>

Thanks Ken!  I love this language more and more every day.  And that solves 
the "lag" quibble I mentioned.  Perfect.

At 09:44 PM 10/3/2002 -0500, Ken Ray wrote:
>Jim,
>
>Even easier:
>
>   on mouseDown
>     grab the target
>   end mouseDown
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Oct  4 09:34:00 2002
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Oct  4 09:34:00 2002
Subject: Looking for Shao Sean's libSMTP
In-Reply-To: <20021004011406.45283.qmail@web40506.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGOEJICFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>

I'm looking for the libSMTP stack also. The link on the Rev site points to
the 'removed site'. Can anyone email me a copy, or tell me where I might be
able to download it ?

Thanks

Gary Rathbone
mailto:GaryR at thbone.net

-----------------------------------------------------

Hi everyone on the list,

I try to download libSMTP from the Shao Sean site:
http://www.shaosean.tk/  but the site seems removed.
There's just a message from his personal writings...

--CLIP--

Thanks in advance.

Alejandro





From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct  4 10:19:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri Oct  4 10:19:01 2002
Subject: Looking for Shao Sean's libSMTP
References: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGOEJICFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>
Message-ID: <047f01c26bb8$01206550$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Until Sean's got his web site back up, I posted a download of his libSTMP
1.1.1 for MetaCard at my site in the "Downloads" area at the bottom of the
page:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/metacard/metacard.htm

I'm sure you just need to change the ".mc" to ".rev" to get it to work for
Revolution...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Rathbone" <gary.rathbone at btclick.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: Looking for Shao Sean's libSMTP


> I'm looking for the libSMTP stack also. The link on the Rev site points to
> the 'removed site'. Can anyone email me a copy, or tell me where I might
be
> able to download it ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary Rathbone
> mailto:GaryR at thbone.net
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Hi everyone on the list,
>
> I try to download libSMTP from the Shao Sean site:
> http://www.shaosean.tk/  but the site seems removed.
> There's just a message from his personal writings...
>
> --CLIP--
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Alejandro
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Oct  4 10:30:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri Oct  4 10:30:01 2002
Subject: Alex Rice's Stacks as Databases Thread
Message-ID: <a05100300b9c360dc61bf@[216.229.107.166]>

Alex, et al:

I deleted the original messages because I thought the subject was 
adequately covered, then decided to note:

If one uses properties, text files, or a special "mirror" stack, one 
is designing an app-specific approach which must be redesigned for 
each new project.

If one uses an SQL or SDB database, one is gaining proficiency in a 
generalized approach that can be applied to future projects.  (SDB 
is, in essence, a generalization of a stack-specific approach used by 
HyperCarders for years.)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From David.Glasgow at cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk  Fri Oct  4 11:04:00 2002
From: David.Glasgow at cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk (Glasgow, David)
Date: Fri Oct  4 11:04:00 2002
Subject: copying multiple objects to clipboard
Message-ID: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B351B9B0@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk>

The hospital I work at is making the painful transition to Electronic Patient Records.  I have developed an assessment that at present creates a stack for each test. These can be browsed from within the standalone, the main representation being a 'circumplex' chart (about which I am still chuffed to bits, 18 months after scripting it originally with the starter kit).  Alternatively, the raw and z scores can be copied from a field and pasted into SPSS, or whatever.

Now the problem is that the results need to be placed into the patient record.  The easiest way of doing that is to copy and both the chart and the data together and then paste them into the relevant EPR document.  I could just copy an image of the card, but then the data wouldn't be searchable or amenable to aggregating with others.  So, can I copy multiple objects, specifically an image and some text, to the clipboard, and then paste them together in a single step into another application?  Grouping them won't work, because I think the destination won't then be the clipboard....although I'm not sure I quite get this bit of the docs.  How about putting an image of the chart, and the data into an invisible field and then copying that?

I know I should experiment, but the kids need a taxi driver in 10 minutes.

Best wishes,

David Glasgow

Courses HTTP://www.i-Psych.co.uk 



From jeff at xors.com  Fri Oct  4 11:30:00 2002
From: jeff at xors.com (Jeff Graham)
Date: Fri Oct  4 11:30:00 2002
Subject: Supercard
In-Reply-To: <B9C0BA64.1D9D9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <B9C0BA64.1D9D9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p05111702b9c308222ceb@[192.168.0.5]>

Thanks very much for a considered reply, Richard, most helpful.

I've taken a closer look at the two interactives and they really are 
quite simple.  There's no menus or buttons, not much scripting.  They 
appear to be just a series of images linked together with hot spot 
clickable areas.  If I was to start them now, I reckon a series of 
web pages would do the same thing.  I hope this means my porting 
exercise is a little easier.

Richard Gaskin wrote :
>Jeff Graham wrote:
>
>>  I was hoping for a 90% automatic conversion, 10% hand-tweaking, that
>>  kind of thing.  When you say people do conversions, do you mean as a
>>  chargeable service?
>
>[Note:  Apologies in advance for what turned out to be another long post,
>but this is an important topic so I pulled some notes from an artice I'm
>working on to include them here.]
>
>
>Similarities and Differences Among xTalk Dialects
>-------------------------------------------------
>When porting between xTalk tools, the differences that make each tool

<snip>

>There are links in the upper-right of this page to the Human Interface
>Guidelines for most of Rev's supported platforms (and to other usability and
>interface design resources):
><http://www.fourthworld.com/resources/index.html>
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Oct  4 11:49:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Oct  4 11:49:01 2002
Subject: TabletPC
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEADCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <4F4768CE-D7B8-11D6-94B7-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, at 09:24 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> Anyone know if Rev apps will run on WinXP for Tablet PC.

Uh.  I hope this is not poor manners, but I would like to chime in and say 
I would be interested in the answer to this, too.

Dar



From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Oct  4 12:21:00 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri Oct  4 12:21:00 2002
Subject: copying multiple objects to clipboard
In-Reply-To:  <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B351B9B0@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk>
References:  <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B351B9B0@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9c37bf9c06d@[216.229.107.199]>

>Now the problem is that the results need to be placed into the 
>patient record.  The easiest way of doing that is to copy and both 
>the chart and the data together and then paste them into the 
>relevant EPR document.

Hi David,

What application creates EPR documents?  In particular, are they 
external to Revolution?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Oct  4 12:34:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri Oct  4 12:34:01 2002
Subject: copying multiple objects to clipboard
In-Reply-To: <a05100301b9c37bf9c06d@[216.229.107.199]>
Message-ID: <B9C347CE.14C5D%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/4/02 1:12 PM, "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:

> What application creates EPR documents?  In particular, are they
> external to Revolution?

I believe that is trade lingo for "Electronic Patient Records".


-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Oct  4 12:38:00 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Oct  4 12:38:00 2002
Subject: Collision detection: A comparison
In-Reply-To: <B9C1E8FF.6CB%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <27087D0C-D7BF-11D6-94B7-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 04:38 AM, malte brill wrote:

> So first check with intersect function, if intersec=true then check with
> pixel method for the overlapping parts of the two objects?
> That seems to be a good thought.

Yes.

> It really sounds as if it might be enough to check exerpts of the maskdata,
> but I still got no idea how to compute them.

It is probably possible to use maskdata, though it might depend on the type 
of image.  I have not used it.

I have used the alpha bytes from imagedata.  That might depend on the type 
of image, too; maybe I was lucky in it working for me.

I would start with making a function that given an imagedata string, X & Y 
pixel coordinate within that image and the width of the image returns the 
character containing the alpha.  I say char instead of number incase you 
can get by without the number and compare the char directly.  I think there 
are some clues to working with imagedata at Ken Ray's site.

Test that by displaying the charToNum() of the returned value for each 
pixel of a tiny image.  Format it so each image row is one line.

You can build your initial collision detection from that.

(I say "initial" because you will want to optimize over row comparison 
later.  After you optimize you should have only two additions and one 
comparison per cycle for iteration.  This does not include the pixel 
comparison; this is just what it takes to go from one pixel to another in 
the two row segments being compared.)

You have three coordinate systems to convert among.  That of each image and 
that of the card they are on.  It may be easiest (to start with) to work in 
the card coordinates and convert from that.  When you optimize, you might 
want to change that.

So, make another function that uses the one above.  It also has the 
location of the image as args and the X and Y are in the card coordinates.
   You can now get corresponding pixels of two images.

Then to look for a collision iterate over the pixels in the overlapped 
portion using card coordinates.
To check for whether the two pixels overlap, you might see if both are 
after 'z', a trick to see if both values are greater than 122.  If you don'
t have soft edges, then your alphas will be 0 or 255, so this will work.  
An alternative would be to multiply the charToNum() of each and see if that 
is greater than 16256.

In card coordinates, I would guess the overlapped rectangle (in card 
coordinates) is that with the max top, min bottom, min left and max right 
of the rectangle (property) of the images.  Test this function; I may have 
goofed.

So... Build from the bottom.  Test as you go.  Worry about optimization 
after you see the big picture.
If, after optimization, this is too slow, then consider the subrects we 
talked about.

Dar Scott



From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Oct  4 13:03:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Oct  4 13:03:00 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <B60F4A6B-D742-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <ACF0C025-D7C2-11D6-AC83-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 08:40  PM, Sarah wrote:

> If you are going to be reading your saved data from another stack, the 
> easiest thing is probably to save a copy of the data stack somewhere. 
> Then your reader stack can just open the saved data stack at any 
> stage. When you build your app, make sure it saves the substacks into 
> separate files. This will allow your data stack to be saved (so long 
> as it isn't the mainStack) either to it's default location or to your 
> storage location.

Is there any way to get Rev to save out only selected substacks into 
seperate files? It would clean up my installation a little bit if 
everything was in the standalone app, except the data substack.


Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Oct  4 13:53:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Oct  4 13:53:01 2002
Subject: Collision detection: A comparison
In-Reply-To: <27087D0C-D7BF-11D6-94B7-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <9EAC6188-D7C9-11D6-94B7-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 11:31 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

> I have used the alpha bytes from imagedata.  That might depend on the type 
> of image, too; maybe I was lucky in it working for me.
>
> I would start with making a function that given an imagedata string, X & Y 
> pixel coordinate within that image and the width of the image returns the 
> character containing the alpha.  I say char instead of number incase you 
> can get by without the number and compare the char directly.  I think 
> there are some clues to working with imagedata at Ken Ray's site.

Brain warp!

I just looked at my code.  I used alphadata, not imagedata:

   put the alphaData of image "Test Image" into dat

It may be that imagedata has the same info, but the dictionary says the 
fourth byte is 0, so I would guess not.  Also, alphadata will be easier to 
use.

I should know better than to go by memory.

Dar



From jeanne at runrev.com  Fri Oct  4 14:10:00 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri Oct  4 14:10:00 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <ACF0C025-D7C2-11D6-AC83-000393529642@mindlube.com>
References: <B60F4A6B-D742-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <v0313030cb9c38eda1428@[10.0.1.2]>

At 10:56 AM -0700 10/4/2002, Alex Rice wrote:
>Is there any way to get Rev to save out only selected substacks into
>seperate files? It would clean up my installation a little bit if
>everything was in the standalone app, except the data substack.

Sure. The canonical way to do this, if your app will be creating its own
documents, is:

1. Include a document-template stack in your stack file.
2. To create a document, use the clone command:
  clone stack "Template" -- makes a copy of the substack
  set the name of stack it to "Untitled1" -- or whatever
3. To save that cloned stack, use the save command:
  set the name of stack "Untitled" to "Saved Stack Name"
  save stack "Saved Stack Name" -- brings up standard Save dialog
or else
  save stack "Saved Stack Name" as "/Disk/Folder/MyStack.rev"
This saves the stack without bringing up the dialog box. (Depends on
whether this is a user document, or something like a prefs file that the
user doesn't need to set the location and name for.)

There is an example in the "Employee Database" stack that's discussed in
the Independent Study tutorial. The Employee Database creates its own
documents and lets the user save them in this fashion.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Fri Oct  4 18:15:01 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri Oct  4 18:15:01 2002
Subject: TabletPC
In-Reply-To: <4F4768CE-D7B8-11D6-94B7-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCEBJCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Hi Dar

I did some reading after that post and it looks as though all apps that run
on WinXP will work to some extent. The big question is whether mc fields
will be able to accept the handwriting input properly????

Also, I've had a request for to develop a companion app for one of my Rev
apps to be used on handheld devices. Has anyone done anything like this? I
assume that the best language for such a project would be java??? All I need
to do is save a little bit of data input and then transfer it to my app
later on.

Cheers

Monte

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dar Scott
> Sent: Saturday, 5 October 2002 2:13 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: TabletPC
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, at 09:24 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>
> > Anyone know if Rev apps will run on WinXP for Tablet PC.
>
> Uh.  I hope this is not poor manners, but I would like to chime
> in and say
> I would be interested in the answer to this, too.
>
> Dar
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct  4 18:41:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Oct  4 18:41:01 2002
Subject: TabletPC
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCEBJCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <B9C373F0.1DBE1%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Monte Goulding wrote:

> I did some reading after that post and it looks as though all apps that run
> on WinXP will work to some extent. The big question is whether mc fields
> will be able to accept the handwriting input properly????

Speaking of, anyone playing with ways to track mouseMove to implement this?:

<http://optimoz.mozdev.org/gestures/>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From asd at asd.com  Fri Oct  4 19:32:00 2002
From: asd at asd.com (amerika)
Date: Fri Oct  4 19:32:00 2002
Subject: HAYDÝ AMERÝKAYA!!!Son 25 Gün.....
Message-ID: <200210042331.TAA19987@www.runrev.com>

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From asd at asd.com  Fri Oct  4 19:32:12 2002
From: asd at asd.com (amerika)
Date: Fri Oct  4 19:32:12 2002
Subject: HAYDÝ AMERÝKAYA!!!Son 25 Gün.....
Message-ID: <200210042331.TAA19988@www.runrev.com>

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From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  4 19:38:00 2002
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Fri Oct  4 19:38:00 2002
Subject: Looking for Shao Sean's libSMTP
In-Reply-To: <200210041602.MAA11107@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20021005003129.91012.qmail@web40513.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to Sannyasin and Ken Ray for sending the files
that I required.

Alejandro

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From alanIra9 at mac.com  Fri Oct  4 20:47:01 2002
From: alanIra9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Fri Oct  4 20:47:01 2002
Subject: simulating clicking a line in a scrolling list field
In-Reply-To: <875C2EC5-D741-11D6-87C9-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <82999D3C-D803-11D6-BBC0-000393158950@mac.com>

Sarah,

Many thanks for the (good) code.  It was indeed simple - just not 
intuitive (the "send mouseUp" part, I mean.)

Thanks again to you, Ken and Dan for help

Regards,
Alan

On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 10:32  PM, Sarah wrote:

> How about:
>
> set the hilitedLine of fld "list" to 5
> send mouseUp to fld "list"
>
> If you don't want the line visibly selected then:
>
> lock screen
> set the hilitedLine of fld "list" to 5
> send mouseUp to fld "list"
> set the hilitedLine of fld "list" to empty
>
> Sarah
>
>
> On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 09:26  am, Alan Gayne wrote:
>
>> Greetings to all,
>>
>> Has anybody got s simple bit of code to simulate the user clicking on 
>> a particular line in a scrolling list field?
>>
>> Something like "click at the location of line 5 of fld "list" (which 
>> unfortunately 'does not compute').
>>
>> It's probably something simple but darned if I can figure it out.
>>
>> TIA
>> Alan Gayne
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Oct  4 22:44:01 2002
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Fri Oct  4 22:44:01 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <E08533A454364A4C8B395EA007D1F42309D70B@ntsrvcrd04.main.lord.com>
Message-ID: <B9C3AF2C.5B50%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 10/4/02 6:21 AM, Ivers, Doug E at Doug_Ivers at lord.com wrote:

> This is a fascinating topic.  Seems that if you do it right, you can implement
> some aspects of databases.  For example, I was thinking about creating a
> foreign language dictionary which relates English words to words of the other
> language, including links between synonyms.  Anyone have suggestions on a good
> way do implement this?
----------
I'm not sure about here, but if you amble on over to the HyperCard list and
ask, I think you'll find this has been done before. You may be able to look
at some of these and develop your own model.

If not, perhaps I can inquire for you.

Let me know.

All the best,
Ken N. 



From macbox at earthlink.net  Sat Oct  5 11:23:01 2002
From: macbox at earthlink.net (Mac Dude)
Date: Sat Oct  5 11:23:01 2002
Subject: Creating a folder on FTP Server
In-Reply-To: <200210042333.TAA20278@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CFEBA56D-D87D-11D6-B9DD-003065991D92@earthlink.net>

Knowing nothing about FTP, what command do I send with the new LibURL 
internet library to create a new folder on an FTP server?  I'm assuming 
that there's no built in Transcript way to do this, right?  Thanks!



From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Oct  5 16:39:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Oct  5 16:39:01 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <v0313030cb9c38eda1428@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <F92284A6-D8A9-11D6-8713-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 12:35  PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
> Sure. The canonical way to do this, if your app will be creating its 
> own
> documents, is:
>
> 1. Include a document-template stack in your stack file.
> 2. To create a document, use the clone command:
>   clone stack "Template" -- makes a copy of the substack

When I step over a 'clone stack "Template"' expression in the debugger, 
the IDE hangs and the CPU is pegged. Command-. does get me out of it 
though. (Rev 1.1.1, OS X 10.2). Seems to work find outside the 
debugger. Is this a known bug?

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From macbox at earthlink.net  Sat Oct  5 19:43:01 2002
From: macbox at earthlink.net (Mac Dude)
Date: Sat Oct  5 19:43:01 2002
Subject: Errors using libUrlFtpUploadFile
In-Reply-To: <200210051602.MAA30075@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B008FB15-D8C3-11D6-B819-003065991D92@earthlink.net>

I'm uploading a file to an FTP server using libUrlFtpUploadFile.  My 
exact syntax is:


     libUrlFtpUploadFile theFilePath, theURL, "uploaded"

I've also included a "Cancel" button with the following script:

on mouseUp
     resetAll
     close this stack
end mouseUp

This appears to stop the file transfer, and of course closes the stack, 
however, if i attempt to do another transfer it fails, returning simply 
"error"  here is the handler that shows this:


on uploaded theURL, theStatus
     if theStatus is not "uploaded" then
        answer "Upload failed:" & return  & theStatus
     end if
     unload url theURL
     close this stack
end UploadComplete

I'm using the latest BETA internet lib.  Can anyone tell me if this is 
a bug in MY code, REV's code, or the latest internetLib's code?  Aside 
from the "Cancel" button, all the rest of the code works, and does 
upload the file.



From jeanne at runrev.com  Sun Oct  6 01:16:00 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun Oct  6 01:16:00 2002
Subject: Creating a folder on FTP Server
In-Reply-To: <CFEBA56D-D87D-11D6-B9DD-003065991D92@earthlink.net>
References: <200210042333.TAA20278@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <v03130315b9c55ba6d846@[10.0.1.2]>

At 9:16 AM -0700 10/5/2002, Mac Dude wrote:
>Knowing nothing about FTP, what command do I send with the new LibURL
>internet library to create a new folder on an FTP server?  I'm assuming
>that there's no built in Transcript way to do this, right?  Thanks!

It's not directly supported just yet (assuming you're working with 1.1.1),
but if you upload a file to a nonexistent FTP directory, the directory is
created for you, so you can use that as a workaround:

  -- create an empty file in the nonexistent directory:
  put empty into URL "ftp://name:password at example.com/newdir/dummy"
  -- this creates the directory and the file in it. Now delete the
  -- unwanted empty file to leave just the new directory:
  delete URL "ftp://name:password at example.com/newdir/dummy"

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Oct  6 04:44:01 2002
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun Oct  6 04:44:01 2002
Subject: Creating a folder on FTP Server
In-Reply-To: <CFEBA56D-D87D-11D6-B9DD-003065991D92@earthlink.net>
References: <CFEBA56D-D87D-11D6-B9DD-003065991D92@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p05111b00b9c5b04cd35c@[192.168.123.3]>

At 12:16 pm -0400 5/10/02, Mac Dude wrote:
>Knowing nothing about FTP, what command do I send with the new
>LibURL internet library to create a new folder on an FTP server?
>I'm assuming that there's no built in Transcript way to do this,
>right?  Thanks!

The ftp command for this is "MKD" followed by the name of the directory.

However, if you want to avoid using ftp commands directly, a 
workaround is to create a small file using "put .... into url ...". 
This will create any directories that don't currently exist in the 
path to the file. Then you can delete the file if necessary.

Cheers
Dave


From DVGlasgow at aol.com  Sun Oct  6 05:53:01 2002
From: DVGlasgow at aol.com (DVGlasgow at aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct  6 05:53:01 2002
Subject: copying multiple objects to clipboard
Message-ID: <ff.1f04fc89.2ad16ea5@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/10/02 1:28:12 AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:

<< On 10/4/02 1:12 PM, "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:

> What application creates EPR documents?  In particular, are they
> external to Revolution?

I believe that is trade lingo for "Electronic Patient Records".


-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net >>

Yes, Troy is right.  Sorry, I slipped into it.


Best wishes,

David Glasgow
Home/ forensic assessments --> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/dvglasgow/">
DVGlasgow </A>
Courses --> <A HREF="http://www.i-Psych.co.uk">i-Psych</A>


From cowhead at ztv.ne.jp  Sun Oct  6 05:55:01 2002
From: cowhead at ztv.ne.jp (Mitchell Mark)
Date: Sun Oct  6 05:55:01 2002
Subject: Counter for Player
Message-ID: <187CA7E5-D919-11D6-A9CB-0030656DAB8E@ztv.ne.jp>

Trying to make a simple 'counter' for a player.  Putting the currentTime 
of the player into a field while the player is playing does not seem to 
work.  Since the playRate is 600 units/second, I guess you could use the 
milliseconds from start and calculate what the current time should be.  
Problem is, there is a playPaused message, a playStopped, a 
selectionChanged, but no playStarted.  So there appears to be no way to 
tell if the user has just clicked somewhere on the player, or if she has 
actually started it.  Is there anyway to tell if a player is actually 
playing?

I thought of making my own start button for the player, but you cannot 
stick a button over a player.  I suppose I could hide the player 
alltogether and reconstruct one out of my own buttons and progress bars, 
but I have a feeling there is a very easy way to do this that I'm just 
missing.   Can any of you buddhas out there enlighten me?

tia,
mark mitchell
Japan



From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Oct  6 10:46:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun Oct  6 10:46:01 2002
Subject: copying multiple objects to clipboard
In-Reply-To: <ff.1f04fc89.2ad16ea5@aol.com>
References: <ff.1f04fc89.2ad16ea5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9c605ebda6b@[216.229.107.207]>

>  > What application creates EPR documents?  In particular, are they
>>  external to Revolution?
>
>I believe that is trade lingo for "Electronic Patient Records".

David & Troy,

I understood that from the original post; but that doesn't tell me if 
"Electronic Patient Records" is a generic medical term or a specific 
application.  What I'm trying to understand is whether EPRs can be 
Revolution stacks.

If so, one could (a) maintain an image library that can be shared by 
the original test result document and the EPR, or (b) replace the 
chart image with logic to draw a chart from the raw test data al la 
the HyperCard GraphMaker stack.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From cowhead at mac.com  Sun Oct  6 10:57:01 2002
From: cowhead at mac.com (mark mitchell)
Date: Sun Oct  6 10:57:01 2002
Subject: Q. data stacks and app design
In-Reply-To: <200210042333.TAA20321@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5CAB3985-D943-11D6-AE6B-0030656DAB8E@mac.com>

Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 10:56 AM -0700 10/4/2002, Alex Rice wrote:
>> Is there any way to get Rev to save out only selected substacks into
>> seperate files? It would clean up my installation a little bit if
>> everything was in the standalone app, except the data substack.
>
> Sure. The canonical way to do this, if your app will be creating its own
> documents, is:

In think Alex meant that the button "move substacks to separate folder" 
in the distribution builder moves all substacks.  But you don't have to 
use this.  Stick any stacks you like in the data folder manually and 
reference them from the app using the defaultFolder & "/data/" & 
yourStackName.  Then just don't click the button and you can have some 
stacks in the data folder and others (not save-able) retained in the 
standalone file.

Is that what you meant?

mark mitchell
Japan



From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Oct  6 11:14:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun Oct  6 11:14:01 2002
Subject: copying multiple objects to clipboard
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b9c605ebda6b@[216.229.107.207]>
References: <ff.1f04fc89.2ad16ea5@aol.com>
 <a05100300b9c605ebda6b@[216.229.107.207]>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9c60f480d9d@[216.229.107.190]>

>What I'm trying to understand is whether EPRs can be Revolution stacks.
>
>If so, one could (a) maintain an image library that can be shared by 
>the original test result document and the EPR, or (b) replace the 
>chart image with logic to draw a chart from the raw test data al la 
>the HyperCard GraphMaker stack.

David, et al:

OR, if the original test result is a stack, the EPR could just open 
invisible or start using it to have access to the image.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Oct  6 15:51:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun Oct  6 15:51:01 2002
Subject: copying multiple objects to clipboard
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b9c605ebda6b@[216.229.107.207]>
Message-ID: <B9C6190F.14DCB%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/6/02 11:40 AM, "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:

> I understood that from the original post; but that doesn't tell me if
> "Electronic Patient Records" is a generic medical term or a specific
> application.  What I'm trying to understand is whether EPRs can be
> Revolution stacks.

Rob,

Yes, I thought maybe you already knew that. I've seen the term used
generically for whatever system a hospital employs for the purpose. My guess
would be (from the context of the original inquiry) that the system used is
not Revolution based. I would further think that we may indeed start to see
some Rev based EPRs in the near future, as the language and approach of Rev
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net
 is well suited to the application.



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Oct  6 17:56:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun Oct  6 17:56:01 2002
Subject: Counter for Player
References: <187CA7E5-D919-11D6-A9CB-0030656DAB8E@ztv.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <007d01c26d8a$183de860$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Mark,

You can tell if a user clicked on a movie by trapping the mouseUp in the
movie. You can tell if a movie is playing in the following way:

on mouseUp
  answer isPlaying(long id of player 1)
end mouseUp

function isPlaying tTarget
  put the currentTime of tTarget into tTimeA
  wait 10 milliseconds
  put the currentTime of tTarget into tTimeB
  return (tTimeA <> tTimeB)
end isPlaying

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




----- Original Message -----
From: "Mitchell Mark" <cowhead at ztv.ne.jp>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 5:48 AM
Subject: Counter for Player


> Trying to make a simple 'counter' for a player.  Putting the currentTime
> of the player into a field while the player is playing does not seem to
> work.  Since the playRate is 600 units/second, I guess you could use the
> milliseconds from start and calculate what the current time should be.
> Problem is, there is a playPaused message, a playStopped, a
> selectionChanged, but no playStarted.  So there appears to be no way to
> tell if the user has just clicked somewhere on the player, or if she has
> actually started it.  Is there anyway to tell if a player is actually
> playing?
>
> I thought of making my own start button for the player, but you cannot
> stick a button over a player.  I suppose I could hide the player
> alltogether and reconstruct one out of my own buttons and progress bars,
> but I have a feeling there is a very easy way to do this that I'm just
> missing.   Can any of you buddhas out there enlighten me?
>
> tia,
> mark mitchell
> Japan
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk  Mon Oct  7 07:28:01 2002
From: robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk (Robin Banerjee)
Date: Mon Oct  7 07:28:01 2002
Subject: screenMouseLoc
Message-ID: <B9C73AD6.B97%robinb@cogs.susx.ac.uk>

I can't seem to get screenMouseLoc to work (using Mac OS X).

'set the screenMouseLoc to 200,200' doesn't seem to do anything.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Robin
-- 
Dr Robin Banerjee
robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  7 08:36:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct  7 08:36:00 2002
Subject: screenMouseLoc
In-Reply-To: <B9C73AD6.B97%robinb@cogs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20021007133000.63343.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Robin Banerjee <robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk> wrote:
> I can't seem to get screenMouseLoc to work (using
> Mac OS X).
> 
> 'set the screenMouseLoc to 200,200' doesn't seem to
> do anything.
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated.
> 
> Robin
> -- 
> Dr Robin Banerjee
> robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk

Hi Robin,

You have to put the location between quotes. So your
line of code should be:

  set the screenMouseLoc to "200,200"

That ought to do the trick :-)


=====
Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  7 09:15:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct  7 09:15:00 2002
Subject: screenMouseLoc [2]
In-Reply-To: <B9C73AD6.B97%robinb@cogs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20021007140909.19145.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Robin Banerjee <robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk> wrote:
> I can't seem to get screenMouseLoc to work (using
> Mac OS X).
> 
> 'set the screenMouseLoc to 200,200' doesn't seem to
> do anything.
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated.
> 
> Robin
> -- 
> Dr Robin Banerjee
> robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk
> 

On another note: the Transcript Dictionary shows that
this function works in MacOS Classic, Un*x and
Windows, but specifically not in MacOS X.
So you're out of luck, appearently.


=====
Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From ASGolub at dkhglaw.com  Mon Oct  7 12:23:01 2002
From: ASGolub at dkhglaw.com (Alan Golub)
Date: Mon Oct  7 12:23:01 2002
Subject: Revolution Book Project
Message-ID: <03F0EDFFDCF9D311B9550004ACB81D5C084717@NTSERVER>

Hi all--

I've posted a draft Introduction section for the Revolution book. Here's the
link:

http://progrevolution.blogspot.com/

Hopefully, this draft will give readers the feel and flavor of the book.
Please check it out -- feedback is encouraged!

Since first announcing the project, I've received quite a few e-mails from
folks who have expressed interest and checked out the weblog. I'm happy to
note that everyone I've heard from is quite excited about the project, and
eager for details, i.e., publication date, publisher, etc. Suffice it to say
that no such details are yet worked out. From my prior experience in the
tech book market, it's best to have as much written as possible before
approaching publishers -- publishers demand such quick turn-around times
(based on the fact that software versions quickly and frequently change
between the signing of a book contract and actual publication) that it's
best to have a good head-start before you commit to real deadlines. My
preference, however, is to base the book on version 2 or later, with
publication sometime next early-Fall. A long way off, but necessary and
desirable to make it something to be proud of.

Anyway, I'll continue to work as fast and often as I can. Thanks for your
interest!

Regards,
Alan S. Golub


From kevin at runrev.com  Mon Oct  7 14:07:01 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Mon Oct  7 14:07:01 2002
Subject: screenMouseLoc [2]
In-Reply-To: <20021007140909.19145.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B9C786B1.B5B2%kevin@runrev.com>

On 7/10/02 3:09 pm, Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> On another note: the Transcript Dictionary shows that
> this function works in MacOS Classic, Un*x and
> Windows, but specifically not in MacOS X.
> So you're out of luck, appearently.

Note that this limitation will be eliminated in the next version of
Revolution.

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Mon Oct  7 16:34:18 2002
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean)
Date: Mon Oct  7 16:34:18 2002
Subject: [ANN] libSMTP v1.2.0
Message-ID: <000701c26e48$436b6e90$88b15bd1@lanfear>

I've released an update to the SMTP library. It fixes the problems that I
knew about (authentication, attachments). I have also obsoleted two of the
old handlers (they're still there and they still work, but use the newer
method in new projects).

I am also seeking testers for a POP3 library (it won't be completed for a
few more days, but testing starts right away). Contact me off-list if you're
interested.

--
Shao Sean
http://www.shaosean.tk/



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Mon Oct  7 16:41:01 2002
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Mon Oct  7 16:41:01 2002
Subject: Creating Icons on the Fly
Message-ID: <B9C74955.1C38%dan@clearvisiontech.com>

Fellow RR users,

I want to display some icons on the screen and the user will define the text
and backgroundColor of the icons.  The text of these icons will be vertical.
I can create the icons using the import snapshot command then rotating the
image 90?.  (You have to fiddle with it because the rotate distorts the
image - but I've got it looking great!)

The problem is when the standalone opens, and I create the icons (and do the
rotate) it looks pretty ugly on screen -- all the flashing of the import
snapshot command and rotation.  Since the import snapshot command takes an
actual screen shoot, locking the screen or setting the stack off screen are
not viable options.

Anyone know (or can think of) a workaround?

Thank you in advance.

-Dan



From Mike at Doub.com  Mon Oct  7 18:09:01 2002
From: Mike at Doub.com (Mike Doub)
Date: Mon Oct  7 18:09:01 2002
Subject: Implementation of "Filter with:" and " Scroll to:"
Message-ID: <LOBBKHHMGNHFHNPEJJLBIEEDCMAA.Mike@Doub.com>

Hello all,

I am new to transcription programming and am looking to implement a search
mechanism similar to that that is illustrated in the Revolution
Documentation stack in the Transcript Language Dictionary.  I like the very
fast positioning within the field with every keystroke.  Can anyone tell me
how this might be implemented?

Thanks,
   Mike




From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Mon Oct  7 18:52:01 2002
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Mon Oct  7 18:52:01 2002
Subject: Book Wiki
In-Reply-To: <000801c26b88$8ee17620$6601a8c0@sylvax>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021007194439.02f768d0@inspiredlogic.com>

Several people on the MetaCard list have been talking about collaborating 
on a book. I've put up a possible outline on the wiki. As usual, everyone 
is free to edit/contribute right now, no logins required.

<http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/2382>

regards,

Geoff




From brasmussen at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  8 00:26:01 2002
From: brasmussen at earthlink.net (Bob Rasmussen)
Date: Tue Oct  8 00:26:01 2002
Subject: Setting Geometry on cloned objects
Message-ID: <3DA26B05.A0AB3CDC@earthlink.net>

This note is about making your own calls to undocumented Geometry Manager
functions, rather than using the Geometry Manager stack.  Normally, I wouldn't
fiddle with undocumented interfaces, but in this case it seems like the right
thing to try.

I have a stack in which I need to clone a particular group an arbitrary number
of times.  The original group has a few controls in it.  The group and its
controls have been given Geometry Manager settings so they will resize
automatically to fit the width of the card. Some of the controls refer to the
group they are in. Some refer to other controls in the group.

I would like to arrange the clones below the original group in a column, such
that the clones have the same resizing behavior as the original (plus fancier
things if I get this to work).  Cloning, however, duplicates all the geometry
properties of the originals, including any object references in them.
Therefore, the geometry properties in the clones all refer back to the original
group and its controls, rather than to their own peers in the clone.

I have thoroughly reverse engineered the Geometry Manager stack, and I think I
know how to emulate what it does, but so far this has not worked.  I end up with
no geometry adjustment at all, and other things start acting a little weird.
I've tried doing it the "legal" way with calls to the undocumented
revSetGeometryObject, revGetGeometry and revSetGeometry, as well as to the
documented revCacheGeometry and revUpdateGeometry.  I've also tried setting
cRevGeometry properties directly.  Neither method works reliably.  I must be
missing some small detail.

This leads me to the following questions:

1.  Has anyone out there ever successfully used these undocumented interfaces?
Can you tell me what the incantation is?

2.  If I ever figure this out, am I wasting my time, since future versions of
Revolution may not work the same way on these undocumented interfaces?  Are
there plans to document these interfaces (or some new version of them)?

3.  Would anyone be interested in what I've managed to find out on my own so far
about these undocumented features?

4.  Short of writing my own Geometry Manager, does anyone have any other bright
ideas?

Thanks in advance.

RR




From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Oct  8 01:23:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Oct  8 01:23:01 2002
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <B9C1C620.B2CB%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8E12E7A6-DA85-11D6-AE6D-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 03:02  AM, Kevin Miller wrote:

> On 2/10/02 8:30 pm, Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com> wrote:
>>
>> Coming from REALbasic land, I immediately start looking for new
>> features in the prerelease versions of Rev ;-). I could really make 
>> use
>> of the XML parsing and the new spreadsheet control. Can anyone please
>> spill the beans a little bit about the status of the next release
>> beyond 1.1.1. Where can I download an alpha from, if anywhere?
>
> Our professional license holders have access to the alpha and beta test
> releases.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin

And I applaud RunRev for keeping a tight lid on the alphas and betas 
process. It's just too tempting to use bleeding edge releases when one 
really wants that new feature!

However, is there no XML parser available for RunRev 1.1.1? Even an 
External that wraps Expat or something?

I am looking at Altuit XML TreeView for some ideas for simple xml 
parsing to hold me over until the next version of Revolution.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to




From terry at discovery.nl  Tue Oct  8 01:23:10 2002
From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Tue Oct  8 01:23:10 2002
Subject: Setting Geometry on cloned objects
In-Reply-To: <3DA26B05.A0AB3CDC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <89C89A1A-DA85-11D6-B3FA-0030656FD666@discovery.nl>

Bob Rasmussen heeft op dinsdag, 8 okt 2002 om 07:20 het volgende 
geschreven:
>
> Short of writing my own Geometry Manager, does anyone have any other 
> bright
> ideas?

Because I never trust the GeoMan, I always use 'resizeStack'. To give 
an example, I pasted the script of a stack that uses this technique. 
The stack has a divider line that sets it's own 'divid' custom prop and 
also calls 'arrangeElements'. It needs some typing, but it is quite 
simple and gives much more predictable behaviour than the GeoMan.

It would be a useful contribution if anyone would write a kind of 
GeoMan stack that just adds a properly working resizeStack handler to 
the stack script.

on resizeStack
   arrangeElements
   pass resizeStack
end resizeStack

on arrangeElements
   put the divid of btn "Divider" into perc
   put the width of this stack into lWidth
   put the height of this stack into lHeight
   put round((perc*(lWidth-365))+120) into L40
   if L40 < 120 then put 120 into L40
   if L40 > (lWidth-245) then put (lWidth-245) into L40
   set the rect of btn "Divider" to L40-7&",52,"&L40+1&","&lHeight-4
   set the rect of btn "OTNT" to "4,52,"&L40-10&","&lHeight-4
   set the rect of btn "showwhich" to 
L40+4&",104,"&lWidth-4&","&lHeight-4
   set the rect of fld "books" to "10,76,60,"&lHeight-10
   set the rect of fld "history" to "62,76,"&L40-14&","&lHeight-10
   set the rect of fld "shortcutnumbers" to 
L40+6&",129,"&L40+26&","&lHeight-10
   set the rect of fld "groups" to 
L40+26&",130,"&lWidth-10&","&lHeight-10
   set the rect of fld "head" to L40+4&",52,"&lWidth-4&",74"
   set the rect of fld "subhead" to L40+4&",77,"&lWidth-4&",99"
end arrangeElements




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Oct  8 01:42:05 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Oct  8 01:42:05 2002
Subject: Implementation of "Filter with:" and " Scroll to:"
In-Reply-To: <a05111adab9c7c41e1c18@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <3273B4AC-DA88-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

The docs use 2 types: search which scrolls to the first matching entry 
and filter which only shows matching entries:

If you want the scroll method and you have your list in a field called 
"List" then your search field needs a script like this:

     if me is empty then -- scroll back to top
       set the hilitedLines of field "List" to 1
     else
       put lineOffset(return & me, field "List") + 1 into currentLine
       if currentLine > 1 then
         set the hilitedLines of field "List" to currentLine
         set the scroll of field "List" to \
             (currentLine - 1) * the effective textHeight of field "List"
       end if
     end if

The main trick with the filter method is that "filter" is destructive, 
so you need to store the complete list somewhere invisible, like in a 
custom property of the field. Suppose you have your display field 
"List" and that field has a custom property called completeList.

In your filter field, you need the following script:

on rawKeyUp
   put the completeList of fld "List" into theList
   filter theList with "*" & me & "*"
   put theList into fld "List"
end rawKeyUp

The *'s on either side allow you to find the specified text even if it 
is in the middle of a line. If you wanted to find only to find text 
that matched the beginnings of lines, you could leave out the first "*".

As you say, both these methods are very fast.

Cheers,
Sarah

On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 09:07  am, Mike Doub wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I am new to transcription programming and am looking to implement a 
> search
> mechanism similar to that that is illustrated in the Revolution
> Documentation stack in the Transcript Language Dictionary.  I like the 
> very
> fast positioning within the field with every keystroke.  Can anyone 
> tell me
> how this might be implemented?
>
> Thanks,
>    Mike
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Oct  8 02:04:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Oct  8 02:04:00 2002
Subject: Expert Systems?
Message-ID: <45195DA5-DA8B-11D6-AE6D-000393529642@mindlube.com>

Does anyone know of an expert system toolkit in xcard/revolution for 
Expert Systems? I am thinking of something along the lines of a toolkit 
like CLIPS (C) or JESS (Java).

THanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Oct  8 02:35:01 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue Oct  8 02:35:01 2002
Subject: Creating Icons on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <B9C74955.1C38%dan@clearvisiontech.com>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAKEOBCKAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Dan,

You can try hiding the stack before doing the capture (if you're capturing
stuff off of the stack).. you can do a send doCapture (your handler) to a
hidden stack and it will import snapshot to the hidden stack...but in my
experience, for the most part, you're stuck with the flashing and screen
redraws..

-Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dan Friedman
> Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 4:23 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Creating Icons on the Fly
>
>
> Fellow RR users,
>
> I want to display some icons on the screen and the user will
> define the text
> and backgroundColor of the icons.  The text of these icons will
> be vertical.
> I can create the icons using the import snapshot command then rotating the
> image 90?.  (You have to fiddle with it because the rotate distorts the
> image - but I've got it looking great!)
>
> The problem is when the standalone opens, and I create the icons
> (and do the
> rotate) it looks pretty ugly on screen -- all the flashing of the import
> snapshot command and rotation.  Since the import snapshot command takes an
> actual screen shoot, locking the screen or setting the stack off
> screen are
> not viable options.
>
> Anyone know (or can think of) a workaround?
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> -Dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Oct  8 02:35:10 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue Oct  8 02:35:10 2002
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <8E12E7A6-DA85-11D6-AE6D-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAMEOBCKAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Alex,

Check out Ken Ray's most excellent XML parser at:
http://www.sonsothunder.com

I think you'll really like it!!!

-Chipp

 
> However, is there no XML parser available for RunRev 1.1.1? Even an 
> External that wraps Expat or something?
> 



From alex_rice at arc.to  Tue Oct  8 02:56:01 2002
From: alex_rice at arc.to (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Oct  8 02:56:01 2002
Subject: expert system toolkits?
Message-ID: <1B0709E7-DA87-11D6-AE6D-000393529642@arc.to>

Does anyone know of an expert system toolkit in xcard/revolution for 
Expert Systems? I am thinking of something along the lines of a toolkit 
like CLIPS (C) or JESS (Java).

THanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct  8 03:08:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Oct  8 03:08:01 2002
Subject: Expert Systems?
In-Reply-To: <45195DA5-DA8B-11D6-AE6D-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <B9C7DF22.1DDBA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> Does anyone know of an expert system toolkit in xcard/revolution for
> Expert Systems? I am thinking of something along the lines of a toolkit
> like CLIPS (C) or JESS (Java).

This has been an area of interest of mine for some time, but I've not had
many stuations which would appear to derive immediate benefit from such
systems.   I say "appear" because I'm certain a lot of situations probably
could, but my lack of familiarity with AI applications outside of the
classroom is limited.

What sorts of MC/Rev apps would you see as good candidates for enhancing
with an expert system?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Oct  8 04:13:01 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Oct  8 04:13:01 2002
Subject: Setting Geometry on cloned objects
In-Reply-To: <89C89A1A-DA85-11D6-B3FA-0030656FD666@discovery.nl>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCECLCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> It would be a useful contribution if anyone would write a kind of
> GeoMan stack that just adds a properly working resizeStack handler to
> the stack script.
>
The question needs to be asked: Why would one trust this "useful
contribution" any more than the Geometry Manager?

I find the geometry manager covers just about everything I need, however, I
can see the need for a public API for setting the geometry manger's custom
properties in script.

Cheers

Monte



From cowhead at mac.com  Tue Oct  8 04:28:01 2002
From: cowhead at mac.com (mark mitchell)
Date: Tue Oct  8 04:28:01 2002
Subject: counter for player
In-Reply-To: <200210071606.MAA28491@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6A4D6E7F-DA9F-11D6-9D82-0030656DAB8E@mac.com>

That's it!  That function makes it very easy to implement a counter for 
a player.  For some reason,  I previously had not been able to access 
the currentTime of a player while it was playing.  Don't know what I was 
doing wrong, but it certainly works now.  Thanks!

mark mitchell
Japan

Ken Ray wrote:

> on mouseUp
>   answer isPlaying(long id of player 1)
> end mouseUp
>
> function isPlaying tTarget
>   put the currentTime of tTarget into tTimeA
>   wait 10 milliseconds
>   put the currentTime of tTarget into tTimeB
>   return (tTimeA <> tTimeB)
> end isPlaying



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Tue Oct  8 04:59:01 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Tue Oct  8 04:59:01 2002
Subject: Expert Systems?
In-Reply-To: <B9C7DF22.1DDBA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <AEFCA7CA-DAA3-11D6-B3C8-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Tuesday, Oct 8, 2002, at 18:02 Australia/Sydney, Richard Gaskin 
wrote:

> Alex Rice wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know of an expert system toolkit in xcard/revolution for
>> Expert Systems? I am thinking of something along the lines of a 
>> toolkit
>> like CLIPS (C) or JESS (Java).
>
> This has been an area of interest of mine for some time, but I've not 
> had
> many stuations which would appear to derive immediate benefit from such
> systems.   I say "appear" because I'm certain a lot of situations 
> probably
> could, but my lack of familiarity with AI applications outside of the
> classroom is limited.
>
> What sorts of MC/Rev apps would you see as good candidates for 
> enhancing
> with an expert system?

Not actually AI perhaps, but recently I needed to solve a problem of 
taking about 10% of the stock market and selecting and weighting a 
sub-set of that group to create a small portfolio which would (in 
principle) mimic a larger index. I might have used Solver in Excel, or 
constraint programming, but instead I wrote a genetic algorithm app in 
Rev, mainly because I felt I would be able to handle more variables 
more easily this way and it gave me a much prettier interface where 
parameters could be changed by wiggling a couple of sliders rather than 
having to enter data in cells. It was quite straightforward to do and 
surprisingly fast.

I have also looked at AI from time to time wondering where it would be 
useful in my own stuff. I worked a few years ago on a bid for a large 
expert system to determine social security benefits but this in some 
ways seemed to confirm that AI is just on a continuum from "normal" 
programming but provides tools which make it easier to handle 
complexity or uncertainty.

My $2 worth (the currency ain't what it used to be).

cheers
David
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 07:35:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Oct  8 07:35:01 2002
Subject: Trying to make Outlook-like buttons
Message-ID: <20021008122840.44042.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I've been trying to make Outlook-like buttons, where
clicking on a button makes it do its default action,
but holding the mouse down displays a popup-menu to
choose from pre-defined actions.

Unfortunately, none of my attempts (on MacOS) seem to
work, as all menu-buttons display the menu right away,
and there's no way of setting up a delay there.

I also tried putting a narrow cascade menu over a
regular button (so you have a nice triangle on the
right), and set the regular button's script to
  on mouseStillDown
    send "mouseDown" to btn "cascader"
  end mouseStillDown
But the menu refuses to display, even though the
mouseDown message _is_ sent.

Does anyone have an idea, short of mimicking the
popup-menu using a field ?
Thanks in advance,

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish
at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Oct  8 08:02:01 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Oct  8 08:02:01 2002
Subject: Expert Systems?
In-Reply-To: <AEFCA7CA-DAA3-11D6-B3C8-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIECMCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> I might have used Solver in Excel

Sorry to go off the thread here but would you happen to know how to make a
"Solver" for rev? I have an athletic training to performance prediction
model that uses the Solver in Excel and I tried to do it in mc a while back
but couldn't get my head around it.

Monte



From kevin at runrev.com  Tue Oct  8 08:54:01 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Tue Oct  8 08:54:01 2002
Subject: Setting Geometry on cloned objects
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCECLCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <B9C88300.B602%kevin@runrev.com>

On 8/10/02 10:07 am, Monte Goulding <monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote:

> I find the geometry manager covers just about everything I need, however, I
> can see the need for a public API for setting the geometry manger's custom
> properties in script.

Request noted.

Thanks,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Oct  8 10:19:01 2002
From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Tue Oct  8 10:19:01 2002
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAMEOBCKAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <6404300E-DAD0-11D6-BC28-000393853DBC@jpl.nasa.gov>

Ken's web page says it is for Rev 1.5 not 1.1.1. Is that true?

Bill
On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 12:31  AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Alex,
>
> Check out Ken Ray's most excellent XML parser at:
> http://www.sonsothunder.com
>
> I think you'll really like it!!!
>
> -Chipp
>
>
>> However, is there no XML parser available for RunRev 1.1.1? Even an
>> External that wraps Expat or something?
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct  8 10:39:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct  8 10:39:01 2002
Subject: XML
References: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAMEOBCKAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <00b701c26edf$7ebca5d0$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Chipp,

Thanks for the plug, but unfortunately my XML parser is based on the Perl
Compatible Regular Expression engine, which is not in Rev 1.1.1 (it *will*
however be in the next version of Rev that is released).

Sorry, Alex...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 2:31 AM
Subject: RE: XML


> Alex,
>
> Check out Ken Ray's most excellent XML parser at:
> http://www.sonsothunder.com
>
> I think you'll really like it!!!
>
> -Chipp
>
>
> > However, is there no XML parser available for RunRev 1.1.1? Even an
> > External that wraps Expat or something?
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From webmaster at listology.com  Tue Oct  8 11:47:01 2002
From: webmaster at listology.com (Jim Biancolo)
Date: Tue Oct  8 11:47:01 2002
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <00b701c26edf$7ebca5d0$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAMEOBCKAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008123807.00af99f8@mail.berkshire.net>

Hi Ken,

If possible (not sure how secrecy-sworn folks that have access to 1.5 are) 
can you tell me how your parser for 1.5 differs from the native XML support 
I've heard will be in 1.5?  Or are they one and the same?

Thanks,

Jim

At 10:29 AM 10/8/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks for the plug, but unfortunately my XML parser is based on the Perl
>Compatible Regular Expression engine, which is not in Rev 1.1.1 (it *will*
>however be in the next version of Rev that is released).
>
>Sorry, Alex...
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 2:31 AM
>Subject: RE: XML
>
>
> > Alex,
> >
> > Check out Ken Ray's most excellent XML parser at:
> > http://www.sonsothunder.com
> >
> > I think you'll really like it!!!
> >
> > -Chipp
> >
> >
> > > However, is there no XML parser available for RunRev 1.1.1? Even an
> > > External that wraps Expat or something?
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jeanne at runrev.com  Tue Oct  8 13:34:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Tue Oct  8 13:34:01 2002
Subject: Trying to make Outlook-like buttons
In-Reply-To: <20021008122840.44042.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <v03130303b9c8d3806bb9@[10.0.1.2]>

At 5:28 AM -0700 10/8/2002, Jan Schenkel wrote:
>I've been trying to make Outlook-like buttons, where
>clicking on a button makes it do its default action,
>but holding the mouse down displays a popup-menu to
>choose from pre-defined actions.
>
>Unfortunately, none of my attempts (on MacOS) seem to
>work, as all menu-buttons display the menu right away,
>and there's no way of setting up a delay there.

Here's a method. It requires you create a separate popup menu button, which
may be hidden:


local isInMenu -- keeps mouseUp from firing if you showed the menu

on mouseDown
  put false into isInMenu
  send "popGoesTheMenu" to me in 2 seconds -- delay time
end mouseDown

on mouseUp
  if isInMenu then pass mouseUp
  beep 2 -- or do whatever action you want for a click
end mouseUp

on popGoesTheMenu
  if the mouse is up then exit popGoesTheMenu
  put true into isInMenu
  popup button "My Popup"
  -- the menuPick handler in "My Popup" handles the actions
end popGoesTheMenu

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 13:51:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Oct  8 13:51:01 2002
Subject: Trying to make Outlook-like buttons
In-Reply-To: <v03130303b9c8d3806bb9@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <20021008184458.27444.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <jeanne at runrev.com> wrote:
> At 5:28 AM -0700 10/8/2002, Jan Schenkel wrote:
> >I've been trying to make Outlook-like buttons,
> where
> >clicking on a button makes it do its default
> action,
> >but holding the mouse down displays a popup-menu to
> >choose from pre-defined actions.
> >
> >Unfortunately, none of my attempts (on MacOS) seem
> to
> >work, as all menu-buttons display the menu right
> away,
> >and there's no way of setting up a delay there.
> 
> Here's a method. It requires you create a separate
> popup menu button, which
> may be hidden:
> 
> 
> local isInMenu -- keeps mouseUp from firing if you
> showed the menu
> 
> on mouseDown
>   put false into isInMenu
>   send "popGoesTheMenu" to me in 2 seconds -- delay
> time
> end mouseDown
> 
> on mouseUp
>   if isInMenu then pass mouseUp
>   beep 2 -- or do whatever action you want for a
> click
> end mouseUp
> 
> on popGoesTheMenu
>   if the mouse is up then exit popGoesTheMenu
>   put true into isInMenu
>   popup button "My Popup"
>   -- the menuPick handler in "My Popup" handles the
> actions
> end popGoesTheMenu
> 
> --
> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
> Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for
> Software Development
> http://www.runrev.com/
> 

Thanks Jeanne,

On the way home I had just come up with an alternative
method ; if you make the whole button a cascade menu,
and set its script to

-- Start of script
on mouseDown
  put the seconds + (the uPopupDelay of me) into \
    tPopupTime
  wait until (the mouse is "up") or (the seconds > \
    tPopupTime)
  if the seconds < tPopupTime then
    send "mouseQuickUp" to me
  else pass mouseDown
end mouseDown

on mouseQuickUp
  -- the default choice
  answer "This worked !"
end mouseQuickUp
-- End of script

And this worked as well ;  but no matter how hard I
tried (using flushEvents(all) even) it would still
briefly display the menu after the mouseQuickUp was
handled.

But by applying the 'popup' command, things should
work fine. Thanks again,

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish
at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From dan at danshafer.com  Tue Oct  8 14:09:01 2002
From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue Oct  8 14:09:01 2002
Subject: Expert Systems?
Message-ID: <a05200a0eb9c8dc736f11@[63.205.23.218]>

Alex Rice wrote:

>Does anyone know of an expert system toolkit in xcard/revolution for
>Expert Systems? I am thinking of something along the lines of a toolkit
>like CLIPS (C) or JESS (Java).

Yeah, HyperCard had several expert system tools that would probably 
be portable to RR. I suspect they relied fairly heavily on externals, 
though, and that could make them somewhat less useful.

What specific ES features are you looking for? How fast does it need to be?
-- 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
How smart do you work? What's your TQ (Time Quotient)?
Find out free in 2 minutes at http://www.thinktq.com/Results2002
Free one-year training course in your email box - $120 value
Get an insightful book written and published EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOU


From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Oct  8 14:45:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Oct  8 14:45:01 2002
Subject: Expert Systems?
In-Reply-To: <a05200a0eb9c8dc736f11@[63.205.23.218]>
Message-ID: <9C93B3AC-DAF5-11D6-B217-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 01:04  PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
> Yeah, HyperCard had several expert system tools that would probably be 
> portable to RR. I suspect they relied fairly heavily on externals, 
> though, and that could make them somewhat less useful.

That's true.

CLIPS is cross platform, has a flexible license, and I was thinking it 
would be a good candidate for a Rev External.

Any good URLs or book references on writing metacard/rev externals? My 
C skills are adequate but not great.

> What specific ES features are you looking for?

Not sure! I just ordered a book on CLIPS. I'm pretty sure an ES is what 
we need though.

The company does estimation modeling for construction projects, school 
districts, national parks, and others. By asking a series of questions 
about the spaces needed, who will be using the spaces and how, formulas 
are applied, and space and cost estimates are produced. Or for school 
districts, enrollment estimates are produced. School districts, too.

The problem is that currently my coworkers are working in MS Excel and 
their estimation models and their data sets are all munged together, as 
Excel files are wont to be. It has caused many headaches as projects 
evolve and they attempt to apply similar models to different clients or 
projects, different data sets.

> How fast does it need to be?

Speed probably won't be an issue... we're not predicting the stock 
market here :-)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Oct  8 14:46:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Oct  8 14:46:01 2002
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <00b701c26edf$7ebca5d0$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <C98D2F0D-DAF5-11D6-B217-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 09:29  AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Chipp,
>
> Thanks for the plug, but unfortunately my XML parser is based on the 
> Perl
> Compatible Regular Expression engine, which is not in Rev 1.1.1 (it 
> *will*
> however be in the next version of Rev that is released).
>
> Sorry, Alex...
>
Oh well... :-) Is the PCRE engine going to be backwards compatible with 
the current regex syntax?

Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com>
Mindlube Software
AIM: mindlubesw
http://mindlube.com/



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct  8 15:49:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct  8 15:49:01 2002
Subject: Representing structured trees and lists in Rev (was expert system toolkits?)
In-Reply-To: <1B0709E7-DA87-11D6-AE6D-000393529642@arc.to>
Message-ID: <9F75DF6E-DAFE-11D6-BE10-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 12:28 AM, Alex Rice wrote:

> Does anyone know of an expert system toolkit in xcard/revolution for 
> Expert Systems? I am thinking of something along the lines of a toolkit 
> like CLIPS (C) or JESS (Java).

I am not familiar with CLIPS or JESS.  And it has been a long, long time 
since I have worked with expert systems.  Yet, I have and I have built some 
and some more general theorem provers.  However, all of those have been in 
a Lisp environment.  With that prejudice, this comes to mind...

Something like that (done the way I have done it in the past) would need 
some rich method representing information.  That brings up something I have 
been wondering about.  Is there a library or style example for representing 
recursive types in Revolution (perhaps type tagged)?  That is, something 
that can represent something as general as a lisp-like list?

I have considered using some arrays as an environment of references.  I 
have considered mixing in some binary into strings to create a simple way 
to add structure.  I have even considered text strings that are parsed 
every time.

Has anybody had to address this?  Any ideas?

Dar Scott



From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Oct  8 16:29:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Oct  8 16:29:01 2002
Subject: Representing structured trees and lists in Rev (was expert system toolkits?)
In-Reply-To: <9F75DF6E-DAFE-11D6-BE10-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <2970DC32-DB04-11D6-B9FF-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 02:43  PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> I am not familiar with CLIPS or JESS.

JESS is a java clone of CLIPS. http://www.ghg.net/clips/CLIPS.html

> And it has been a long, long time since I have worked with expert 
> systems.  Yet, I have and I have built some and some more general 
> theorem provers.  However, all of those have been in a Lisp 
> environment.  With that prejudice, this comes to mind...
>
> Something like that (done the way I have done it in the past) would 
> need some rich method representing information.  That brings up 
> something I have been wondering about.

I've been wondering how to do this in Rev as well. The Rev 
getProp/setProp feature seems like it provides encapsulation, but how 
does one create a list or tree of objects?

CLIPS has it's own syntax for expressing rules and statements.

There is also an XML schema for knowledge representation and query, 
which might be the best way to go for a new project in terms of using a 
"standard".

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct  8 16:58:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct  8 16:58:00 2002
Subject: XML
References: <C98D2F0D-DAF5-11D6-B217-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c26f14$5acba600$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

As far as I know it is... I haven't run into any times where old regex
didn't work with the new PCRE.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Rice" <alex at mindlube.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: XML


>
> On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 09:29  AM, Ken Ray wrote:
>
> > Chipp,
> >
> > Thanks for the plug, but unfortunately my XML parser is based on the
> > Perl
> > Compatible Regular Expression engine, which is not in Rev 1.1.1 (it
> > *will*
> > however be in the next version of Rev that is released).
> >
> > Sorry, Alex...
> >
> Oh well... :-) Is the PCRE engine going to be backwards compatible with
> the current regex syntax?
>
> Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com>
> Mindlube Software
> AIM: mindlubesw
> http://mindlube.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct  8 16:58:49 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct  8 16:58:49 2002
Subject: XML
References: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAMEOBCKAA.chipp@chipp.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20021008123807.00af99f8@mail.berkshire.net>
Message-ID: <002b01c26f14$6020da30$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

No problem, Jim. I'm not sure what I can tell you and what I can't (Kevin -
please let me know if I've said too much); I can tell you this much... the
XML support in my library is purely Transcript and relies heavily on the
PCRE engine that is built into MetaCard (Rev's underlying engine
technology), whereas the XML support in 1.5 is done with low level code
(either through an external or as part of the main engine.... we'll have to
see what it finally becomes), which means that it is faster on large
quantities of XML (like a XML "database" for example). Additionally Rev's
also supports some additional XML capabilities (DTDs for example) that my
Library doesn't have yet.

"Word on the street" says that some people who have used the XML support in
1.5 found it a bit more difficult to use than my XML Library, but as they
say "your mileage may vary". Additionally, if one purchases the Standard
version of my XML Library, the source code comes with it so you can (a) see
all the wonderful regular expression use :-) and (b) edit/modify the XML
parsing capability to your heart's content.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Biancolo" <webmaster at listology.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: XML


> Hi Ken,
>
> If possible (not sure how secrecy-sworn folks that have access to 1.5 are)
> can you tell me how your parser for 1.5 differs from the native XML
support
> I've heard will be in 1.5?  Or are they one and the same?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
> At 10:29 AM 10/8/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >Thanks for the plug, but unfortunately my XML parser is based on the Perl
> >Compatible Regular Expression engine, which is not in Rev 1.1.1 (it
*will*
> >however be in the next version of Rev that is released).
> >
> >Sorry, Alex...
> >
> >Ken Ray
> >Sons of Thunder Software
> >Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com>
> >To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 2:31 AM
> >Subject: RE: XML
> >
> >
> > > Alex,
> > >
> > > Check out Ken Ray's most excellent XML parser at:
> > > http://www.sonsothunder.com
> > >
> > > I think you'll really like it!!!
> > >
> > > -Chipp
> > >
> > >
> > > > However, is there no XML parser available for RunRev 1.1.1? Even an
> > > > External that wraps Expat or something?
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-revolution mailing list
> > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >use-revolution mailing list
> >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Tue Oct  8 17:25:01 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Tue Oct  8 17:25:01 2002
Subject: Expert Systems?
In-Reply-To: <9C93B3AC-DAF5-11D6-B217-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <EBD93B82-DB0B-11D6-B3C8-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Wednesday, Oct 9, 2002, at 05:39 Australia/Sydney, Alex Rice wrote:
>
> The company does estimation modeling for construction projects, school 
> districts, national parks, and others. By asking a series of questions 
> about the spaces needed, who will be using the spaces and how, 
> formulas are applied, and space and cost estimates are produced. Or 
> for school districts, enrollment estimates are produced. School 
> districts, too.

Alex

Can you reduce those formulae ultimately to a single score (which may 
be a weighted combination of sub-scores)? If so, it sounds to me that a 
GA could do what you want and it is not difficult to implement in Rev. 
GAs are especially good at munging multiple issues, just so long as, 
eventually, you can single-score a solution. Mixing score weightings to 
achieve that is something you can do with user controls rather than 
embedding, if you are unsure of what the weightings should be.

regards
David
>
>
>> How fast does it need to be?
>
> Speed probably won't be an issue... we're not predicting the stock 
> market here :-)
(Would that I could...)

A GA should find good solutions in seconds to minutes, not hours or 
days.

cheers
David
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> alrice at swcp.com
> alex_rice at arc.to
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Tue Oct  8 17:35:01 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Tue Oct  8 17:35:01 2002
Subject: Expert Systems?
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIECMCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <4CD427E9-DB0D-11D6-B3C8-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Tuesday, Oct 8, 2002, at 22:56 Australia/Sydney, Monte Goulding 
wrote:

>
>> I might have used Solver in Excel
>
> Sorry to go off the thread here but would you happen to know how to 
> make a
> "Solver" for rev? I have an athletic training to performance prediction
> model that uses the Solver in Excel and I tried to do it in mc a while 
> back
> but couldn't get my head around it.

Monte

If you mean a generalised CLP solver for an arbitrary number of inputs, 
then no. If you have a very small number of variables but no simple or 
single formula, or have an input with curvature, then I have previously 
written iterative solvers for this type of problem, on a case basis. 
For a larger problem, I guess you will need to go to a book on CLP and 
try to implement the algorithm, something I have not done, or take the 
GA route, with which I am pretty impressed at the moment.

regards
David
>
> Monte
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Oct  8 17:36:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Oct  8 17:36:01 2002
Subject: Expert Systems?
In-Reply-To: <EBD93B82-DB0B-11D6-B3C8-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <8A1C8265-DB0D-11D6-B9FF-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 04:18  PM, David Vaughan wrote:

> Can you reduce those formulae ultimately to a single score (which may 
> be a weighted combination of sub-scores)? If so, it sounds to me that 
> a GA could do what you want and it is not difficult to implement in 
> Rev. GAs are especially good at munging multiple issues, just so long 
> as, eventually, you can single-score a solution. Mixing score 
> weightings to achieve that is something you can do with user controls 
> rather than embedding, if you are unsure of what the weightings should 
> be.

Genetic algorithms are mainly useful for function optimization 
problems, I think.

This problem is really perfect for an expert system because it's, well, 
an expert system. :-) A bunch of heuristics, rules-of-thumb, which when 
you apply them to set of data set it outputs some recommendations 
recommendations. Stuff like  "If you employ spatula repair persons, 
then you get a spatula repair bay. If the facility is in a snowy clime, 
you get an indoor spatula repair bay with kitchenette. If not in a 
snowy clime, you get an outdoor spatula repair bay. You get a small, 
medium or large spatula repair bay if .... etc."

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Tue Oct  8 17:52:01 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Tue Oct  8 17:52:01 2002
Subject: Expert Systems?
In-Reply-To: <8A1C8265-DB0D-11D6-B9FF-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <BC20F7B9-DB0F-11D6-B3C8-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Wednesday, Oct 9, 2002, at 08:30 Australia/Sydney, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 04:18  PM, David Vaughan wrote:
>
>> Can you reduce those formulae ultimately to a single score (which may 
>> be a weighted combination of sub-scores)? If so, it sounds to me that 
>> a GA could do what you want and it is not difficult to implement in 
>> Rev. GAs are especially good at munging multiple issues, just so long 
>> as, eventually, you can single-score a solution. Mixing score 
>> weightings to achieve that is something you can do with user controls 
>> rather than embedding, if you are unsure of what the weightings 
>> should be.
>
> Genetic algorithms are mainly useful for function optimization 
> problems, I think.
Yep
>
> This problem is really perfect for an expert system because it's, 
> well, an expert system. :-) A bunch of heuristics, rules-of-thumb, 
> which when you apply them to set of data set it outputs some 
> recommendations recommendations. Stuff like  "If you employ spatula 
> repair persons, then you get a spatula repair bay. If the facility is 
> in a snowy clime, you get an indoor spatula repair bay with 
> kitchenette. If not in a snowy clime, you get an outdoor spatula 
> repair bay. You get a small, medium or large spatula repair bay if 
> .... etc."

Uh-huh. Multiple outputs on a rules basis. Not GA, which would attempt 
to organise the assembly. I will be very interested if you find 
anything but fear you or we might have to invent it. Now, where did I 
put Winston... :-)

cheers
David
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> alrice at swcp.com
> alex_rice at arc.to
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jeff at conceptualize.com  Tue Oct  8 19:42:00 2002
From: jeff at conceptualize.com (Jeff Morrison)
Date: Tue Oct  8 19:42:00 2002
Subject: Revolution vs. REALbasic
Message-ID: <F99A2ED4-DB1E-11D6-9900-0003934AB0DE@conceptualize.com>

I've read the promo material but would love to hear from real 
developers.  Can anyone tell me why I should choose Revolution over 
REALbasic?  Advantages and disadvantages?  Much appreciated.  Jeff



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Tue Oct  8 19:57:01 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Tue Oct  8 19:57:01 2002
Subject: Expert systems?
Message-ID: <D9AF27CC-DB20-11D6-B3C8-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

Alex

I pulled these two comments off a 1998 Metacard digest on the web, 
responding to an enquirer who wanted to identify fish (as another 
writer said, probably better off with a neural network than a rules 
system). Anyway, FWIW, a couple of people you might be able to contact 
or advice you might prefer. Perhaps I should cautiously clarify that I 
was indeed joking (with smiley) in a previous mail when I indicated we 
might write it. My business sympathies are more with Grant's view 
below; my personal with finding something with which to play around, as 
ever.

cheers
David


This problem can be conveniently solved with a expert system. The main
advantage of an expert system is that it is a symbolic problem solver, 
wich
can eventually explain its behaviour (the reasons of the conclusion). I
remember a (very) old publication in Byte vulgarizing the principle of
expert system with the support of the identification of animals. It is
possible to write an ES with metacard, but it is not the best language 
for
this aim.
As ES are based on logic, your first objective is to determine the data
representation : propositional logic or first order logic. The 
consequences
are important for the engine of the system. In fact, the engine is 
entirely
conditioned by this option.
Then you must determine the behaviour of the engine : forward chaining
(saturation) or backward chaining (demonstration of hypothesis).
At last you can connect the elements of the rules with elements of the
interface (graphical choice of characteristics).

If you need more information, you can contact me (I'm assistan 
professor in
medical computer science, in the domain of artificial intelligence).

Sincerely,

H. Chaudet

- --------------------------------------------------------
Herve Chaudet  &  Liliane Pellegrin-Chaudet
   e-mail : [PRIVACY PROTECTION]
   Laboratoire de Biomathematiques, Informatique Medicale
       Faculte de Medecine - 27, Bd Jean Moulin
       13385 Marseille cedex 5 - France
       Tel (33) 0 491 791 910 - Fax (33) 0 491 794 013
   Service de l'Information Medicale des Hopitaux Nord
       Hopital Nord - Chemin des Bourrelly
       13326 Marseille cedex 15 - France
       Tel (33) 0 491 968 022 - Fax (33) 0 491 968 025


Subject: Re: Ruled-based, decision-tree expert system via xtalk?

on 1998/10/13 14:47 Dave Jones said:

?snip=B9

 >Does anyone have any suggestions, ideas, examples, pointer, scripts, 
etc.
 >that would lead me in the right direction to produce a rule-based,
 >decision-tree expert identification system using xtalk???

That sounds like a fascinating project.  However, you might wish to
consider whether a commercial system might already do the job, and
cheaper.  I realize that university researchers' time is valued in
today's rubles -- worthless, and shrinking fast -- but I believe there
are systems out there that have solved these sorts of problems, to one
degree or another of satisfaction, and if one of them would do the job
the world might be better served if you did those sorts of research 
which
the rest of us can't do.

Unfortunately, I'm long out of touch with what's available.  I can only
point to the university hospital where I used to work, which decided to
roll its own (in nextsteP) for a platelet transfusion  expert system.  
It
came up, and worked; but it (and to be fair, other parts of a 
physician's
workstation project) took so many people and so much time (several times
as much of each as budgeted) that the project was killed by
administrators; people, including many borrowed from other projects, 
were
laid off; those other projects outsourced, ... and that became just part
of a major IS implosion which became part of the decision to sell the
whole hospital (!) to a private chain which eviscerated it and (IMO)
turned it from a major academic medical center into a scrounging branch
office.  The roll-our-own effort was just an unquantifiably small part 
of
the overall disaster, but the lesson was clear: researchers should
research what has never been done before, in their own disciplines, and
buy the rest.

Yes, an expert-system package of the required flexibility would be
expensive, probably very expensive.  There's a reason for that: it's
very, very hard.  However much it costs, it would cost you more, and 
take
you away from your unique contributions to ichthyology.

That said, it might very well be possible for experts in knowledge
engineering to use MetaCard to create such a package.  A programming
language -- MetaTalk -- even a little closer than C++ to the language of
the problem domain (("er, um, well, let's see .. no, maybe ...") is
always an advantage, as is an interface closer to the target machines'.
Evaluating rules, especially quantified rules, is computationally
expensive; but I suspect that with just a dozen characteristics the
evaluations wouldn't make a modern system so much as hiccup, even in an
interpreted language.  The logic to evaluate properly how ever many
characteristics there are, especially non-Boolean (Bayesian) ones -- ah,
there's the rub.  There's where you want a package that's the product of
experts in *that* sort of research, so you can apply the taxonomic
expertise, developed over a whole career, that only you have.

Let me put it close to home.  I've been programming for 35 years -- 33 
of
them professionally.  I've been doing xTalk stuff for 10 years, and love
it.  I have a bachelor's in Math and Phil, with coursework in
epistemology and symbol manipulation systems.  I have a 
more-than-passing
interest in biology; and though I didn't do that transfusion system I
hung out with the folks who did, and heard their stories, and worked on
other parts of the workstation system.  And if you were my boss; and I
were a programmer in your department, chafing and squirming in COBOL; 
and
you said, "How'd you like to do an expert system in MetaCard?  We have a
year, and I can hire some additional help" -- I'd say, "Boss, you'd be
better off to buy it.  Let's you and I do something else."

And with MetaCard (and other whateverCards) there is so much else that
only you could do.  An expert system package, for anyone not 
specializing
in that kind of programming, is the La Brea tar pits.

Grant Schampel
2191 Carter Ave.
St. Paul, MN   55108-1710
U. S. A.
(651) 644-5796


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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct  8 20:32:00 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Oct  8 20:32:00 2002
Subject: Revolution vs. REALbasic
In-Reply-To: <F99A2ED4-DB1E-11D6-9900-0003934AB0DE@conceptualize.com>
Message-ID: <B9C8D3D8.1DE68%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jeff Morrison wrote:

> I've read the promo material but would love to hear from real
> developers.  Can anyone tell me why I should choose Revolution over
> REALbasic?  Advantages and disadvantages?  Much appreciated.  Jeff

The short answer is that Rev, being a typeless and slightly higher-level
language, usually offers greater programmer productivity.

The long answer is here:

Revolution and REALbasic, A Comparison
<http://www.RunRev.com/revolution/info/compare/index.html>

and here:

Scripting: Higher Level Programming for the 21st Century
<http://dev.scriptics.com/doc/scripting.html>

In this last article, where you see "Visual Basic" think "RealBASIC", and
where you see "TCL" think "Revolution".
 
-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From bailey at kessing.com  Tue Oct  8 20:43:01 2002
From: bailey at kessing.com (Bailey Kessing)
Date: Tue Oct  8 20:43:01 2002
Subject: Tab Menus
Message-ID: <B9C90077.5462%bailey@kessing.com>

I am a recent converter to Revolution from SuperCard so pardon my ignorance.
I am trying to use the Tab menu to present various options to users. I feel
completely stupid but after creating a tab menu on a card I am at a loss to
figure out how to use it. I can?t figure out how to use it either to
?navigate? or show cards, info or what ever. I would greatly appreciate
pointers. 



Bailey Kessing
National Cancer Institute-Frederick
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From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct  8 21:08:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue Oct  8 21:08:01 2002
Subject: Revolution vs. REALbasic
In-Reply-To: <B9C8D3D8.1DE68%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B9C9064B.150E2%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/8/02 9:26 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

>> I've read the promo material but would love to hear from real
>> developers.  Can anyone tell me why I should choose Revolution over
>> REALbasic?  Advantages and disadvantages?  Much appreciated.  Jeff
> 
> The short answer is that Rev, being a typeless and slightly higher-level
> language, usually offers greater programmer productivity.

I'm currently using both (and iShell, too!!). And I have good things to say
about all three - so it depends on what you are trying to do. For me, it
comes down to a few key details for each -

Revolution - 
Assets: Powerful, good hardware, system and network communication and very
fast to develop in, extremely easy to learn language
Limitations: Few plugins, limited control of "look and feel"

RealBasic-
Assets: Very Powerful, excellent hardware, system and network communication,
many many available plugins, better control of "look and feel", 3D and
sprites
Limitations: Much slower than Rev to get results, more syntax oriented -
more complex language

And, for what it's worth - iShell-
Assets: Extremely good control of "look and feel", Extremely fast to develop
in, Remarkable media handling, Great network support (within limits)
Limitations: Poor hardware and system connectivity (abstracted by design),
few plugins or plugin developers, limited use for "utility apps"

For my company, each project is examined to determine where it fits within
these guidelines, and the authoring environment is selected which best fits
the project requirements. Each environment has its strengths. Now, when Rev
2.0 comes out...??

Basically, with RealBasic at one end of the spectrum, and iShell at the
other - Rev sits rather neatly between the two.

I hope that helps some.
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net





From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Oct  8 22:26:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Oct  8 22:26:01 2002
Subject: Revolution vs. REALbasic
In-Reply-To: <F99A2ED4-DB1E-11D6-9900-0003934AB0DE@conceptualize.com>
Message-ID: <0CC16DBE-DB36-11D6-BEBD-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 06:35  PM, Jeff Morrison wrote:

> I've read the promo material but would love to hear from real 
> developers.  Can anyone tell me why I should choose Revolution over 
> REALbasic?  Advantages and disadvantages?  Much appreciated.  Jeff
>
What is your application you are developing, or is it just a general 
need-a-new-tool kinda feeling?

I recently switched my project from Realbasic to Revolution. Let me 
know if you have any specific questions about RB. The realbasic-nug 
mailing list is very active and I'm sure they would answer questions 
you have. Then you can balance the biases of this list and that list :-)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Oct  8 22:32:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Oct  8 22:32:01 2002
Subject: Expert systems?
In-Reply-To: <D9AF27CC-DB20-11D6-B3C8-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <E8674C1E-DB36-11D6-BEBD-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 06:48  PM, David Vaughan wrote:

> Alex
>
> I pulled these two comments off a 1998 Metacard digest on the web, 
> responding to an enquirer who wanted to identify fish (as another 
> writer said, probably better off with a neural network than a rules 
> system). Anyway, FWIW, a couple of people you might be able to contact 
> or advice you might prefer. Perhaps I should cautiously clarify that I 
> was indeed joking (with smiley) in a previous mail when I indicated we 
> might write it. My business sympathies are more with Grant's view 
> below; my personal with finding something with which to play around, 
> as ever.

Thanks that was an interesting post. I didn't realize you were joking 
the first time reading through your mail about rolling our own expert 
system engine!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct  8 22:54:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct  8 22:54:01 2002
Subject: Tab Menus
References: <B9C90077.5462%bailey@kessing.com>
Message-ID: <010e01c26f46$04ab3c40$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Hey, Bailey! Glad to see you!

When you say "tab menu" do you mean the tab button control? If so, and you
want to use it like an "options" dialog box to navigate among cards, you can
do this:

1) Create a stack for your dialog box, but don't create any more cards yet
(the reason is that if you define a background object on the first card it
will automatically copy itself to new cards as they're created; if you
already have your cards defined, you'll have to "place" the background
object on each card one at a time).

2) Create a tab button that fills the card (or however you want it to look),
and give it the following script:

on menuPick currTab,prevTab
  go card currTab
end menuPick

3) Set the "contents" of the button to the list of the tab button names.

4) Right now, it's only a "card-based" button (i.e. if you go to the next
card, the tab button will disappear). So you need to make it shared... Group
the tab button, and in the properties for the group, turn on "Background
Behavior" (which makes it like a background shared object)

5) Create new cards, one for each tab (you should see the tab button appear
on each card as you create it; if you don't, you'll have to "place" the
object on each card using the Place Group option in the Object menu).

6) Name each card the same as the tab that it corresponds to (so that the
script I suggested in #2 will work).

That should do it...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bailey Kessing" <bailey at kessing.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 8:36 PM
Subject: Tab Menus


I am a recent converter to Revolution from SuperCard so pardon my ignorance.
I am trying to use the Tab menu to present various options to users. I feel
completely stupid but after creating a tab menu on a card I am at a loss to
figure out how to use it. I can?t figure out how to use it either to
?navigate? or show cards, info or what ever. I would greatly appreciate
pointers.



Bailey Kessing
National Cancer Institute-Frederick



From jeanne at runrev.com  Tue Oct  8 23:19:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Tue Oct  8 23:19:01 2002
Subject: Tab Menus
In-Reply-To: <B9C90077.5462%bailey@kessing.com>
Message-ID: <v03130304b9c957265910@[10.0.1.2]>

At 6:36 PM -0700 10/8/2002, Bailey Kessing wrote:
>     I am a recent converter to Revolution from SuperCard so pardon my
>ignorance. I am trying to use the Tab menu to present various options to
>users. I feel completely stupid but after creating a tab menu on a card I
>am at a loss to figure out how to use it. I can t figure out how to use
>it either to  navigate  or show cards, info or what ever. I would
>greatly appreciate pointers.

The basic thing you need to do is write a menuPick handler in the tab
button's script. (The menuPick message is sent when the user clicks a tab,
or chooses an item from a menu.)

Usually, you create either a card for each tab, or a group for each tab,
and go to the appropriate card (or show the appropriate group) when its tab
is clicked. The card or group contains the buttons, fields, etc. for that
tab.

Here's an example using the first (card) method. It assumes that the stack
contains one card for each tab, with the name of each card being the same
as the name of a tab:

  on menuPick theTab -- goes in the tab button's script
    go card theTab -- name of the tab that was clicked
  end menuPick

One more tip: to show on each card, the tab has to be grouped and placed on
each of the cards. (Setting the group's backgroundBehavior property will
place it automatically when you create a new card - it's a little easier if
you're creating several cards with the same group(s).)

The script for the second (group) method is similar:

  on menuPick newTab, oldTab
    -- (we ignored the 2nd parameter above since we didn't need it)
    lock screen
    hide group oldTab -- name of the previously-selected tab
    show group newTab -- tab that was clicked
    unlock screen
  end menuPick

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  9 00:53:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Oct  9 00:53:01 2002
Subject: Tab Menus
In-Reply-To: <B9C90077.5462%bailey@kessing.com>
Message-ID: <20021009054641.94295.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Bailey Kessing <bailey at kessing.com> wrote:
> I am a recent converter to Revolution from SuperCard
> so pardon my ignorance.
> I am trying to use the Tab menu to present various
> options to users. I feel
> completely stupid but after creating a tab menu on a
> card I am at a loss to
> figure out how to use it. I can?t figure out how to
> use it either to
> ?navigate? or show cards, info or what ever. I would
> greatly appreciate
> pointers. 
> 
> Bailey Kessing

Hi Bailey,

Just thought I'd add a little thing to the answers by
Ken and Jeanne.
If you want to make your stack multi-lingual at some
point in the future, it might be more interesting to
find out which button is pressed: the first, second,
third,...
In such cases, the following piece of code comes in
handy:
  on menuPick pNewItem
    put return & (the text of me) & return into \
      tText
    put return & pNewItem & return into tNewItem
    go card lineOffset(tNewItem, tText)
  end menuPick
The whole trick with prepending and appending returns
is to ensure that if you have two items "History B"
and "History" it still picks the correct line.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish
at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From jswitte at bloomington.in.us  Wed Oct  9 02:08:01 2002
From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte)
Date: Wed Oct  9 02:08:01 2002
Subject: Rev v. Java - How to structure academic project? (kinda long)
In-Reply-To: <20021009054641.94295.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1642FDA4-DB55-11D6-A41F-000A27D93820@bloomington.in.us>

Hello,

   The Computer Science department at my University (Indiana University 
Bloomington) teaches their first programming course in Scheme (!) and 
the second in Java.  I'm planning to try to do an independent study 
(preparing for possible grad work) about determining if, how, and why 
Revolution is better than Java for introducing programming to novices 
who've had nothing but Scheme.

   My great suspicion is that it *will* be much easier to learn, as well 
as develop applications which "do more" faster, possibly with less code 
(depends on how you count it, since in Java you're code in bunch of 
files, whereas in the Rev environment your code is spread all over 
everywhere), and be easier to debug.  Although I'm not completely sure 
of this (this is why we do science, after all!).

   My general suspicions about why it would be easier revolve around the 
english syntax of Transcript vs the C-style of Java, the "concreteness" 
of objects in Rev, and the indistinguishability between the "program 
guts" and the "program interface".

   The interface of the language I think helps especially when trying to 
avoid those pesky semicolon errors (which then cascade down so you have 
156 errors instead of just 1) and "plus one" errors in loop counters 
and array references.

   I see Rev (Hypercard originally) as being a more "concrete" example 
of OO than Java is.  In Java, you create an abstract class to 
*describe* a button and what it's actions are, then you instantiate it 
on a "canvas" (which you also have to instantiate) and then you run the 
program to get the interface.  In Rev, you simply create the button.  
In Java, there are actions (handlers/instance methods) linked to button 
objects, but they seem to me to be far removed from the "actual button" 
you see on the screen - they are in the source file.  In Rev, by virtue 
of the fact that you have to "open up" a button to edit its properties, 
script, etc, those scripts, properties, etc all seem much "closer" to 
the actual objects somehow.  (I also feel this way about the Mac GUI vs 
the Windows GUI as wrapping around filestream, but I digress..)

   This is connected closely with my third idea, that the *creation* of 
a program's interface and it's "guts" (algorihms, data structures, file 
handling code, serial interface code, etc) seem very much close 
together in Rev.  In Java, for instance (at least when not using an 
IDE) you'd write out your program logic in a text editor (usually in an 
abstract form first), then write the visuals classes (which access that 
first abstract layer), then actually run it to see what the interface 
looks like.  In Rev, you create the interface and the code which 
controls it/it controls simultaneously (or you can if you want.  Of 
course you can also write everything as a stack script handler and then 
have all the buttons make calls, but where's the fun in that.. [Of 
course, that was how a large part of the Revolution UI stacks look like 
they were done])

   What I'm wondering is if anyone else here has any pertinent 
information for background research into this type of programming 
psychology, or studies done on an xTalk environment before.

   I'd also like any ideas on how to formally test some of these 
theories.  One way would be to take two groups, teach one Java and 
another Rev ("just enough to get the problem done..") then turn them 
loose on a slightly harder problem (than the ones they had been shown 
how to do - requiring a bit of synthesis) for a week or two in Java or 
Rev and see which one finishes first or puts more bells and whistles on 
theirs.

   Another idea is to take a part of a class that just finished the Java 
class here (C212), teach them some Rev, then give them a problem to 
solve in Rev. (we like games in the lower-level programming courses 
here, so maybe a mouse-chasing-cat game or something).  The rest of the 
course would do Java (that could get logisically hard as it would have 
to be done while the Java course is still in session, uugh.

   These scenarios would help establish the basic premise that 
programmers can do more, faster with Rev than Java.  However, I would 
also hypothesize that not only could a programmer code up application x 
faster in Rev than Java, but that if you just gave two groups of people 
[students] (one Rev and one Java) some small, open-ended problem, the 
Rev people would go *much* further, especially in areas like graphics 
output, file output, and overall presentation of the app.  A recent 
problem given in my Artificial Intelligence class was to write a 
three-layer neural network (1 hidden layer) and then write a 
backpropagation routine to train it on handwritten digit data (in 
Scheme, of all programming lanauges!)  Now, In Scheme, I'm probably 
going to get about 50 percent of it done.  In C, I think I could have 
gotten about 70-100 percent of it done.  In Rev, I think I might have 
been able to finish it, as well as making a nice graphical 
representation of the network and a testing routine, almost "for free"

   Ideally, the best way to do this would be to design a Java/Rev 
course, to immediately follow the C212 class, and discuss what the 
students think is different from Java, which is easier, "cooloer", why, 
etc.  But, getting them to let an undergrad teach a class (and one he 
made to boot) might be a bit hard (to say the least), and I'd have to 
tread carefully to avoid stepping on various Java and Scheme toes in 
the department..  ("IUB:  Home of the Goddess of Scheme...")

Thank You,
Jim Witte
jswitte at bloomington.in.us  //  jswitte at indiana.edu



From Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu  Wed Oct  9 03:36:01 2002
From: Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu (Timothy Hart)
Date: Wed Oct  9 03:36:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
Message-ID: <fc.004c4d190f2a32dc004c4d190f2a32dc.f2a3692@umit.maine.edu>

Hello,
	I am hoping to find an answer here.  Here is my situation.  I am building an application that can keep track of Palm Pilots that people check out at my college.  I am planning on having a card for each individual palm with their serial numbers and
other info.  Then at the bottom of each page I will have boxes for name, phone number, etc.  I have button that ask the user these things and it puts it in the fields.  My question is this.  After I have made the program a standalone, how do I get
Revolution to save this information.  I know how to use the menu manager but what do I scipt the save menu do actually do?

Sorry if that is a little confusing and thanks in advance for the help.

-Tim









From simon at babelfix.com  Wed Oct  9 03:36:21 2002
From: simon at babelfix.com (Simon Forster)
Date: Wed Oct  9 03:36:21 2002
Subject: New User questions
Message-ID: <769FA6AD-DB59-11D6-BD3F-0050E4CE1D03@babelfix.com>

Hi

Yesterday I downloaded the Revolution starter kit and ran through the 
first tutorial to get a feel for the program and to find out whether I 
wanted to explore this further. Problem 1: when futzing with the 2nd 
button (there's only 2 of them in the Getting Started tutorial), 
Revolution would "Unexpectedly quit" on me. This happened a good half 
dozen times. Needless to say, if this is typical behaviour I'm not 
interested in the prog. I'm working on an Apple PowerBook G3 with 300+ 
MB RAM running OS X 10.2.1.

Is Revolution quite unstable when developing?

I'd like to look through some documentation on the language. The only 
reference source I've found so far is the Transcript Dictionary. Is 
this all that's commonly available? If so, how can one browse through 
this?

TIA for your input.

Simon Forster
_________________________________________________
BabelFix Ltd, Office One, 16 Canham Road, London, W3 7SR, UK
<tel int="+44 20 8746 0555" uk="020 8746 0555">
<tel int="+44 70 9230 5244" uk="070 9230 5244">
<fax int="+44 70 9230 5247" uk="070 9230 5247">
<mailto:simon at babelfix.com>
_________________________________________________



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  9 03:52:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Oct  9 03:52:01 2002
Subject: Rev v. Java - How to structure academic project? (kinda long)
In-Reply-To: <1642FDA4-DB55-11D6-A41F-000A27D93820@bloomington.in.us>
Message-ID: <20021009084548.20052.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jim Witte <jswitte at bloomington.in.us> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> [snip]
> 
>    I see Rev (Hypercard originally) as being a more
> "concrete" example 
> of OO than Java is.  In Java, you create an abstract
> class to 
> *describe* a button and what it's actions are, then
> you instantiate it 
> on a "canvas" (which you also have to instantiate)
> and then you run the 
> program to get the interface.  In Rev, you simply
> create the button.  
> In Java, there are actions (handlers/instance
> methods) linked to button 
> objects, but they seem to me to be far removed from
> the "actual button" 
> you see on the screen - they are in the source file.
>
> [snip]
> 
> Jim Witte

Hi Jim,

Personally I feel that the choice between RunRev and
Java (an any programming language/environment for that
matter) depends on your requirements.
If you need support for your program on a specific
platform, you could be out of luck: there's no RunRev
for PalmOS, for instance.
Or if your project requires that you setup a
multi-threaded system (never mind the headaches that
come with that) you have no choice but to go for Java.
Yes, you can come close with RunRev and the message
queue (send "doIt" && tParam1 & comma & tParam2 to me
in 10 milliseconds) but when a piece of code is busy,
no other piece of code can run.
If you don't require these extras, RunRev is
definitely your choice (or Flash/Shockwave if it has
to run inside a browser, but web-apps versus net-apps,
that's a whole different discussion).
It all depends on your requirements...

At any rate, the thing I really wanted to discuss is
that RunRev is _not_ object-oriented but object-based,
whereas Java is a fully object-oriented language (and
even found a solution to the multiple inheritance
nightmare of C++).
RunRev has encapsulation, but there is no real
inheritance. RunRev has a message hierarchy and a
message queue, but all in all xCard environments have
merely taken a series of very good ideas from OOP.

Example: if you want a field that only accepts numeric
input, here's what you would do:

1) Java: create a new subclass JNumericField of
JTextField (i don't have my books at hand right now,
so it could be a different class) and make it so that
it only accepts numeric input. Then, whenever you need
a numeric field, you make an instance of that class.

2) RunRev: look at the use-revolution archive and copy
the script I posted a week or so ago ;-)

But the difference come in maintenance: suppose
there's something wrong with your code in a special
situation.
In Java, you fix the JNumericField class, and it's
fixed everywhere. In RunRev, you have to go through
all your numeric fields and fix it repeatedly.

Granted, you can do a lot with the frontScript and
backScript mechanisms to alleviate these problems, but
it's a different metaphor -- there's no parentScript
property so you can say: this button does everything
that button does, except for this handler.
MetaCard has promised to add more OOP-features to the
engine, but there's no real explanation of what those
additions encompass.

In Java you can add classes at will. Is there a type
of object or control you need that isn't there? You
can easily add it yourself -- think of all the
FTPConnection classes that appeared on the web when it
wasn't included in the network package.
In RunRev you have a fixed set of controls, admittedly
a very flexible set but there is for instance no real
table control (you can emulate one but it's not a true
table control at heart) and no chance of adding it at
the core level nor through externals.

It is true that you can go a long way with all that
RunRev has to offer, but when you have certain needs
the xCard metaphor might prove a cage -- a golden cage
but still a cage.

Just my 2 euro-cents...

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish
at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From herve.proudhon at medecine.univ-mrs.fr  Wed Oct  9 06:08:01 2002
From: herve.proudhon at medecine.univ-mrs.fr (Herve Proudhon)
Date: Wed Oct  9 06:08:01 2002
Subject: Expert Systems?
Message-ID: <8AE212EB-DB76-11D6-99BF-0003934AC252@medecine.univ-mrs.fr>

I developed and maintained an expert system on asthma management 
(AsthmeExpert) during more than ten years. (this was an academic project 
which stopped only a few weeks ago). This system was originally designed 
for hospital experts and is routinely used (currently 1800 patients with 
4000 visits).

The system was first created with Nexpert Object on Sun then 
NexpertObject with an Hypercard front-end on Macintosh, then Hypercard 
alone, and lastly Metacard alone.

It includes :
    - a fact database. The data format is very simple (text files in the 
first version, custom properties in the second one - an external 
database is certainly preferable). Data are entered via usual controls 
on cards.
    - an inference engine, hard-coded in Metatalk, which records deduced 
facts in the database (see later).
    - various tools : report generator, presentation tools, bibliographic 
and iconographic modules, data analysis and export tools, case study ...

AsthmeExpert includes about 800 production rules (or equivalent) dealing 
with 1500 facts (given and deduced).
There are no speed problems in Metacard.  The whole deduction process 
and report building is terminated within a few seconds in the most 
complex cases. Although directed programmed in Metatalk, the rules are 
easy to write and debug thanks to the language readability.

The use of Metacard was possible because :
    - the system is based on propositional logic only, which can be 
easily coded in conventional languages like xtalks.
    - we need to record complete patient cases (we don't need an 
"intelligent" bevaviour during data entry), so all available data for a 
patient visit are collected before the inference engine runs.
    - the knowledge can be described sequentially : clinical data are 
first processed, then examinations and lastly prescriptions.
    So the inference engine can be easily hard-coded because it has all 
the available data and the sequence of deductions is predictable.
     - time management is limited because each visit is mainly considered 
separately with only a few added time predicates (?the last value?, the 
last available value, ?the highest value during the last year?, etc ...)
     - perhaps the fact that the first design was made with Nexpert 
Object.
     - Metacard is a wonderful programming tool !

In my experience (and in the narrow limits I described), the main 
problems are not technical but are in the validation process and the 
expertise transfer :
    - how to extract the knowledge from experts
    - how to structure the knowledge (choice of intermediate goals) to 
avoid exponential and completeness problems.

Best regards,

Herve Proudhon

----
Diondine, a nutrition software
http://www.diondine.com



From dcragg at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 07:01:00 2002
From: dcragg at blueyonder.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Wed Oct  9 07:01:00 2002
Subject: Errors using libUrlFtpUploadFile
In-Reply-To: <B008FB15-D8C3-11D6-B819-003065991D92@earthlink.net>
References: <B008FB15-D8C3-11D6-B819-003065991D92@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p05111b01b9c9c773e152@[192.168.123.3]>

It seems my earlier reply on this got bounced.

At 8:36 pm -0400 5/10/02, Mac Dude wrote:
>I'm uploading a file to an FTP server using libUrlFtpUploadFile.  My
>exact syntax is:
>
>
>      libUrlFtpUploadFile theFilePath, theURL, "uploaded"
>
>I've also included a "Cancel" button with the following script:
>
>on mouseUp
>      resetAll
>      close this stack
>end mouseUp
>
>This appears to stop the file transfer, and of course closes the
>stack, however, if i attempt to do another transfer it fails,
>returning simply "error"  here is the handler that shows this:
>
>
>on uploaded theURL, theStatus
>      if theStatus is not "uploaded" then
>         answer "Upload failed:" & return  & theStatus
>      end if
>      unload url theURL
>      close this stack
>end UploadComplete
>
>I'm using the latest BETA internet lib.  Can anyone tell me if this
>is a bug in MY code, REV's code, or the latest internetLib's code?
>Aside from the "Cancel" button, all the rest of the code works, and
>does upload the file.

Don't use resetAll (or libUrlResetAll) to cancel an upload or 
download. Instead, use "unload url".

But using libUrlResetAll shouldn't have the effect you describe, so 
there may be a bug there as well. I'll look into it.

Cheers
Dave


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Oct  9 07:18:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Oct  9 07:18:01 2002
Subject: Rev v. Java - How to structure academic project? (kinda long)
In-Reply-To: <1642FDA4-DB55-11D6-A41F-000A27D93820@bloomington.in.us>
Message-ID: <5CE243E2-DB80-11D6-8E24-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 01:02 AM, Jim Witte wrote:

>   What I'm wondering is if anyone else here has any pertinent information 
> for background research into this type of programming psychology, or 
> studies done on an xTalk environment before.
>
>   I'd also like any ideas on how to formally test some of these theories.
>   One way would be to take two groups, teach one Java and another Rev
...
>   Another idea is to take a part of a class that just finished the Java 
> class here (C212), teach them some Rev, then give them a problem to solve 
> in Rev.

In such a proposal you might find competition with other languages such as 
G in LabView, Pascal in Delphi, Prograph, Visual Basic, JavaScript/HTML and 
so on.  Others have their favorites.

There might be an approach that does not require the direct experiment.  If 
you look at the lit, you might find that there are features and metrics of 
a language that contribute to productivity and other attributes of 
programming.  You might be able to count steps to set up a simple "hello 
world" application.  You might be able to count the "new" concepts to do 
that.  You might be able to keep track of the stress factors or potential 
bunny trails in the path to get there.

> Now, In Scheme, I'm probably going to get about 50 percent of it done.  In 
> C, I think I could have gotten about 70-100 percent of it done.  In Rev, I 
> think I might have been able to finish it, as well as making a nice 
> graphical representation of the network and a testing routine, almost "for 
> free"

I guess it depends on the programmer.  For an AI project, using Scheme 
would be much more productive for me than C.  However, for a neural net 
demo project I will be doing for a friend's book, I will use Revolution.

I actually like the Scheme and then Java approach, especially for CS majors.
   Perhaps Revolution would fit into a plan for non-majors.  Or as an intro 
for those CS majors with no exposure to programming and with no exposure to 
functions in math.  How about a Rev-Scheme-Java approach?  I think the 
immediate and incremental success in most Revolution tasks can contribute 
to learning.

Dar Scott



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct  9 09:27:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct  9 09:27:01 2002
Subject: Tab Menus
References: <20021009054641.94295.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <016601c26f9e$7e3eb570$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

> Just thought I'd add a little thing to the answers by
> Ken and Jeanne.
> If you want to make your stack multi-lingual at some
> point in the future, it might be more interesting to
> find out which button is pressed: the first, second,
> third,...

Excellent suggestion, Jan. Always good to think about this when developing.

> In such cases, the following piece of code comes in
> handy:
>   on menuPick pNewItem
>     put return & (the text of me) & return into \
>       tText
>     put return & pNewItem & return into tNewItem
>     go card lineOffset(tNewItem, tText)
>   end menuPick
> The whole trick with prepending and appending returns
> is to ensure that if you have two items "History B"
> and "History" it still picks the correct line.

You can do this a bit easier by setting the "wholematches" property:

on menuPick pNewItem
  set the wholeMatches to true
  go card lineOffset(tNewItem,the text of me)
end menuPick

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct  9 09:32:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct  9 09:32:00 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
References: <fc.004c4d190f2a32dc004c4d190f2a32dc.f2a3692@umit.maine.edu>
Message-ID: <017101c26f9f$3e98f510$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Tim,

Unfortunately you can't save data back into a standalone, but there are a
number of other options available:

1) Store your data in a stack that is opened/referenced from the standalone.
Although the standalone itself can't be modified, the stack on disk can.

2) Store your data in a text file that you read and write to.

3) Store your data in a database (like mySQL, Access, etc.) and use Rev's
database features to read and write to the database.

If you need more help, let us know,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Hart" <Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 7:17 PM
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone


> Hello,
> I am hoping to find an answer here.  Here is my situation.  I am building
an application that can keep track of Palm Pilots that people check out at
my college.  I am planning on having a card for each individual palm with
their serial numbers and
> other info.  Then at the bottom of each page I will have boxes for name,
phone number, etc.  I have button that ask the user these things and it puts
it in the fields.  My question is this.  After I have made the program a
standalone, how do I get
> Revolution to save this information.  I know how to use the menu manager
but what do I scipt the save menu do actually do?
>
> Sorry if that is a little confusing and thanks in advance for the help.
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From GernotL at t-online.de  Wed Oct  9 09:52:01 2002
From: GernotL at t-online.de (Gernot Lorenz)
Date: Wed Oct  9 09:52:01 2002
Subject: Rev v. Java
Message-ID: <3DA43F64.6040302@rz-online.de>

Dear Jim, Jan, and Dar,
I`m reading Your postings with great interest.
As an teacher for computer science at a German high school, this weeks I 
have a likely problem like You, Jim: which programming language should I 
choose for my pupils ?
A short information: At German high schools pupils at the age of about 
16 can have lessons in programming computers the first and - usually - 
the only time, except they move to an university. At German univerities 
nowadays there is the question: C++ or Java, or sometimes Oberon and 
Scheme (seldom). At the high schools it is very simple: Because 95% of 
German schools have Windows-PCs, they do Pascal with Delphi or Java (it 
is increasing).

Over the years I have teached Pascal, Basic, Hypercard and Java to my 
high-school pupils.
In my long-time experience I can say, that
- Java as the first programming language is too hard for these 16 year 
old pupils. Too complicated, too much semicolons, brackets, too much 
paradigms (OO), too much working on GUI and so on.
- Hypercard was the best: no wasting time for doing GUIs, immediate 
success, and so on. But: The pupils could not work at  home, because 
they had Windows-PCs but Hypercard is an Apple product which runs only 
under Mac OS.

But now, with metacard and Revolution, the OS-Platform doesn?t matter, 
and so my decision will be metacard or Revolution, and my pupils can do 
at home the same with their Windows-PCs what they do at school with the 
Macs.
So far, so good.
But there will be new problems:
There is no printed matter for metacard or Revolution, which fits to the 
situation of my pupils.
So I have a question:
- Do You know high-school teachers or university-teachers using metacard 
or Revolution for exchanging experience ? Can You give e-mail-adresses 
of them ?
- Do You know any printed matter or school books for that subject ? (the 
English language is no problem, I can translate it in German)

Thank You for any kind of help.
Yours
Gernot A. Lorenz

glorenz at rz-online.de



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Oct  9 10:31:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Oct  9 10:31:01 2002
Subject: Rev v. Java
In-Reply-To: <3DA43F64.6040302@rz-online.de>
Message-ID: <3DE48F2E-DB9B-11D6-8E24-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 08:38 AM, Gernot Lorenz wrote:

> German univerities nowadays there is the question: C++ or Java, or 
> sometimes Oberon and Scheme (seldom).

If universities produce computer scientists and not just programmers, then 
the exposure to FP as well as OOP is important.

But for high school, your assessment concerning Revolution seems right to 
me.

> There is no printed matter for metacard or Revolution, which fits to the 
> situation of my pupils.

We home school at our house.  My 11-year-old son is good at mathematics and 
technical things.  I told him that I wanted him to augment his math with 
some reading or programming.  He went with programming.  I gave him some 
options including some that related to his interests in robots and in games.
   The choices included Revolution and Logo.  Though he was tempted by 
Revolution, he went with Logo.  Why?  Primarily, because a wide range of 
materials are available for people at his level.

So, in my limited experience, I think you are right, a good text suitable 
for high school is needed.

Dar Scott



From webmaster at studioalice.se  Wed Oct  9 11:31:01 2002
From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:31:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <fc.004c4d190f2a32dc004c4d190f2a32dc.f2a3692@umit.maine.edu>
Message-ID: <B6EB9D4C-DBA3-11D6-979F-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se>

Hi Tim

Under "Tip-of-the-week" on RunRev's website  
(http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/articles/ 
tipoftheweek.html)  there is a easy-to-follow guideline how to save  
cards in a standalone.

I have done a kind of time-tracking app there I can create (and save!)  
new cards. In a buttton I have this script:

on mouseUp
    save stack "myStack"
end mouseUp

Where the new cards are saved I dont really know. But if I move the  
folder with my app to another computer - all my created cards are still  
there.

It's magic :)

/magnus


On onsdag, okt 9, 2002, at 02:17 Europe/Stockholm, Timothy Hart wrote:

> Hello,
> 	I am hoping to find an answer here.  Here is my situation.  I am  
> building an application that can keep track of Palm Pilots that people  
> check out at my college.  I am planning on having a card for each  
> individual palm with their serial numbers and
> other info.  Then at the bottom of each page I will have boxes for  
> name, phone number, etc.  I have button that ask the user these things  
> and it puts it in the fields.  My question is this.  After I have made  
> the program a standalone, how do I get
> Revolution to save this information.  I know how to use the menu  
> manager but what do I scipt the save menu do actually do?
>
> Sorry if that is a little confusing and thanks in advance for the help.
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Oct  9 11:32:00 2002
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:32:00 2002
Subject: Tab Menus
In-Reply-To: <010e01c26f46$04ab3c40$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0210090924510.5036-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Can't you also use

if the selectedText of me is "Whatever" then
  doWhatever
end if

?

Judy

On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Ken Ray wrote:

> on menuPick currTab,prevTab
>   go card currTab
> end menuPick



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Oct  9 11:52:01 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves =?iso-8859-1?Q?Copp=E9?=)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:52:01 2002
Subject: local variable
Message-ID: <p05111700b9ca0d57b081@[10.0.1.204]>

Hi Ken

That's a question for you.

My script goes as follow :

local theDay, TheMonth, TheYear
...
...

-- I put a variable into L, set itemdel to tab and check item 1 of L 
if it is a date (european format)

  if matchtext( item 1 of 
L,"(0[1-9]|[12][0-9]|3[01])/(0[1-9]|1[0-2])/([0-9][0-9])",theDay,TheMonth,TheYear) 
is true then
          ...
end if


but I have to run the same code further in the same script. about 
another line in another field.

My question :

do I have to reset the variable theDay, TheMonth, TheYear to empty 
before calling again the same code
  if matchtext( item 1 of 
L,"(0[1-9]|[12][0-9]|3[01])/(0[1-9]|1[0-2])/([0-9][0-9])",theDay,TheMonth,TheYear) 
is true then
          ...
end if


Thanks for your help.
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be
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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct  9 12:18:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:18:01 2002
Subject: local variable
References: <p05111700b9ca0d57b081@[10.0.1.204]>
Message-ID: <01a301c26fb6$77fc4e30$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

> My script goes as follow :
>
> local theDay, TheMonth, TheYear
> ...
> ...
>
> -- I put a variable into L, set itemdel to tab and check item 1 of L
> if it is a date (european format)
>
>   if matchtext( item 1 of
>
L,"(0[1-9]|[12][0-9]|3[01])/(0[1-9]|1[0-2])/([0-9][0-9])",theDay,TheMonth,Th
eYear)
> is true then
>           ...
> end if
>
>
> but I have to run the same code further in the same script. about
> another line in another field.
>
> My question :
>
> do I have to reset the variable theDay, TheMonth, TheYear to empty
> before calling again the same code
>   if matchtext( item 1 of
>
L,"(0[1-9]|[12][0-9]|3[01])/(0[1-9]|1[0-2])/([0-9][0-9])",theDay,TheMonth,Th
eYear)
> is true then
>           ...
> end if

No, you just have to have them defined as locals some time before the
matchText() call. This is because the variables need to be there for
matchText to fill them up.

> Thanks for your help.

My pleasure!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  9 12:42:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:42:01 2002
Subject: nested properties?
Message-ID: <902A8E38-DBAD-11D6-890D-000393529642@mindlube.com>

How can one find the stack of the object that started a message? I'm 
trying to do something like this

on someMessage
   get the stack of the target
   -- do stuff with it
end someMessage

I have looked at using "owner" and "mouseStack" properties to figure 
this out, but neither seems really what I want. owner could get tricky 
with groups, and "mouseStack" depends on the UI which doesn't seem 
right, if I ever want to turn this into a web app or something.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  9 12:48:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:48:01 2002
Subject: New User questions
In-Reply-To: <769FA6AD-DB59-11D6-BD3F-0050E4CE1D03@babelfix.com>
Message-ID: <5F9BFFF4-DBAE-11D6-890D-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 01:33  AM, Simon Forster wrote:

> Hi
>
> Yesterday I downloaded the Revolution starter kit and ran through the 
> first tutorial to get a feel for the program and to find out whether I 
> wanted to explore this further. Problem 1: when futzing with the 2nd 
> button (there's only 2 of them in the Getting Started tutorial), 
> Revolution would "Unexpectedly quit" on me. This happened a good half 
> dozen times. Needless to say, if this is typical behaviour I'm not 
> interested in the prog. I'm working on an Apple PowerBook G3 with 300+ 
> MB RAM running OS X 10.2.1.
>
> Is Revolution quite unstable when developing?
>
> I'd like to look through some documentation on the language. The only 
> reference source I've found so far is the Transcript Dictionary. Is 
> this all that's commonly available? If so, how can one browse through 
> this?
>

Simon, I'm running Revolution on the same OS X 10.2.1. When you startup 
Revolution, change View | Look and Feel to "Mac OS Emulated". AFAIK you 
have to do this every time you restart. There are some issues between 
Revolution and the OS X appearance manager, and that's the workaround. 
I think you fill find the Revolution IDE to be quite solid once you do 
that.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  9 12:50:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:50:01 2002
Subject: New User questions
In-Reply-To: <769FA6AD-DB59-11D6-BD3F-0050E4CE1D03@babelfix.com>
Message-ID: <B4F9721D-DBAE-11D6-890D-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 01:33  AM, Simon Forster wrote:
> I'd like to look through some documentation on the language. The only 
> reference source I've found so far is the Transcript Dictionary. Is 
> this all that's commonly available? If so, how can one browse through 
> this?

There is actually a lot of good documentation within that little window 
you are looking at :-) Especially, click on Roadmap, see the Tutorials 
& the Development Guide.

Between the IDE help and the archives of this list, it's pretty much 
satisfying my needs for documentation.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From lrivers at realsoftware.com  Wed Oct  9 13:46:01 2002
From: lrivers at realsoftware.com (Lorin Rivers)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:46:01 2002
Subject: Revolution vs. REALbasic 
In-Reply-To: <200210090320.XAA04231@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9C9E185.371B4%lrivers@realsoftware.com>

On 10/8/02 10:20 PM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:35:13 -0500
> Subject: Revolution vs. REALbasic
> From: Jeff Morrison <jeff at conceptualize.com>
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> 
> I've read the promo material but would love to hear from real
> developers.  Can anyone tell me why I should choose Revolution over
> REALbasic?  Advantages and disadvantages?  Much appreciated.  Jeff

You should ask this same question on the REALbasic list, to get a different
perspective. To sign up: <mailto: realbasic-nug-on at lists.realsoftware.com>

Note also that the comparison article on the Rev site is quite old, compares
Rev with REALbasic 3. We shipped 4.5 in July.
-- 
Lorin Rivers                      mailto:lrivers at realsoftware.com
Vice President of Marketing       512.328.REAL (7325) x712 v
REAL Software                     512.328.7372 f
1705 South Capital of Texas Hwy.  http://www.realsoftware.com
Suite 310                         REALbasic: the powerful, easy-to-use
Austin, Texas 78746               tool for creating your own software
                                  for Macintosh, Mac OS X, and Windows.



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct  9 14:24:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct  9 14:24:01 2002
Subject: nested properties?
References: <902A8E38-DBAD-11D6-890D-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <01ac01c26fc4$9c5b2f90$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Alex,

You can get "the long id of the target", and that will have in it the name
and path of the stack.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Rice" <alex at mindlube.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:35 PM
Subject: nested properties?


> How can one find the stack of the object that started a message? I'm
> trying to do something like this
>
> on someMessage
>    get the stack of the target
>    -- do stuff with it
> end someMessage
>
> I have looked at using "owner" and "mouseStack" properties to figure
> this out, but neither seems really what I want. owner could get tricky
> with groups, and "mouseStack" depends on the UI which doesn't seem
> right, if I ever want to turn this into a web app or something.
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> alrice at swcp.com
> alex_rice at arc.to
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From RGould8 at aol.com  Wed Oct  9 14:45:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Wed Oct  9 14:45:01 2002
Subject: Where can I learn about Applescript and Revolution?
Message-ID: <c3.2a6139cf.2ad5dfd5@aol.com>

I'm trying to find "Applescript" in the Revolution documentation, and how to 
go about making Applescript calls and reacting to Apple Events - - - can 
anyone point me to a web-site or tell me where in the docs I could find more 
details on how this is done?
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From RGould8 at aol.com  Wed Oct  9 14:54:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Wed Oct  9 14:54:01 2002
Subject: Does Applescript run IN revolution, or outside?
Message-ID: <cf.1e5f6854.2ad5e200@aol.com>

I'm digging around more in the Revolution docs about Applescript and 
Applevents - - - I'm a bit confused about where one can call an Applescript - 
- - does Revolution run Applescripts inside the apps that we create, or does 
revolution just "react" to Applescripts running outside of itself, via 
AppleEvents?   

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From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  9 15:09:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Oct  9 15:09:01 2002
Subject: Where can I learn about Applescript and Revolution?
In-Reply-To: <c3.2a6139cf.2ad5dfd5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021009200314.89926.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- RGould8 at aol.com wrote:
> I'm trying to find "Applescript" in the Revolution
> documentation, and how to 
> go about making Applescript calls and reacting to
> Apple Events - - - can 
> anyone point me to a web-site or tell me where in
> the docs I could find more 
> details on how this is done?
> 

Hi there, and welcome to RunRev.

If you want to execute a piece of AppleScript code,
use the 'do' command. Example:

  put "tell application" && quote & "Finder" && \
    quote & return into tAppleScript
  put "select the startup disk" & return after \
    tAppleScript
  put "end tell" after tAppleScript
  do tAppleScript as AppleScript

If you want to capture AppleEvents being sent to your
RunRev application, you'll need to handle the
'appleEvent' message. Example:

on appleEvent pClass, pID, pSender
  answer "Received AppleEvent of class" && \
    pEventClass && "and ID" && pEventType && \
    "from" && pSender
  pass appleEvent -- move it up the message chain
end appleEvent

To learn more about AppleScript in general, visit the
website http://www.applescriptcentral.com

There are a few entries in the use-revolution archive,
so you might want to search around there as well.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish
at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From RGould8 at aol.com  Wed Oct  9 15:15:00 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Wed Oct  9 15:15:00 2002
Subject: Where can I learn about Applescript and Revolution?
Message-ID: <24.2cbe799f.2ad5e6a8@aol.com>

You are awesome - - - thank you so much!

In a message dated 10/9/02 4:04:50 PM, janschenkel at yahoo.com writes:


> --- RGould8 at aol.com wrote:
> > I'm trying to find "Applescript" in the Revolution
> > documentation, and how to
> > go about making Applescript calls and reacting to
> > Apple Events - - - can
> > anyone point me to a web-site or tell me where in
> > the docs I could find more
> > details on how this is done?
> >
> 
> Hi there, and welcome to RunRev.
> 
> If you want to execute a piece of AppleScript code,
> use the 'do' command. Example:
> 
> ? put "tell application" && quote & "Finder" && \
> ? ? quote & return into tAppleScript
> ? put "select the startup disk" & return after \
> ? ? tAppleScript
> ? put "end tell" after tAppleScript
> ? do tAppleScript as AppleScript
> 
> If you want to capture AppleEvents being sent to your
> RunRev application, you'll need to handle the
> 'appleEvent' message. Example:
> 
> on appleEvent pClass, pID, pSender
> ? answer "Received AppleEvent of class" && \
> ? ? pEventClass && "and ID" && pEventType && \
> ? ? "from" && pSender
> ? pass appleEvent -- move it up the message chain
> end appleEvent
> 
> To learn more about AppleScript in general, visit the
> website http://www.applescriptcentral.com
> 
> There are a few entries in the use-revolution archive,
> so you might want to search around there as well.
> 
> Hope this helped,
> 
> Jan Schenkel.
> 
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish
> at the same time."? (La Rochefoucauld)
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
> http://faith.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

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From jeff at conceptualize.com  Wed Oct  9 15:36:01 2002
From: jeff at conceptualize.com (Jeff Morrison)
Date: Wed Oct  9 15:36:01 2002
Subject: Printing
Message-ID: <B45F23BB-DBC6-11D6-8750-003065F93AC8@conceptualize.com>

I'm looking at both REALbasic and Revolution and I'm pretty sure I've 
just discovered a huge problem with REALbasic, and I'm curious if 
Revolution suffers from the same issue.  Printing.  RB printing seems 
to be very, very, very tedious, requiring the user to define every 
element, style, position on page,etc., all via code.  How does 
Revolution handle printing?  Please tell me it's better.  - Jeff



From webmaster at listology.com  Wed Oct  9 15:49:00 2002
From: webmaster at listology.com (Jim Biancolo)
Date: Wed Oct  9 15:49:00 2002
Subject: System Tray in Windows?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021009163922.02a1c9a0@mail.qrc.com>

Hi folks,

Two related questions, if you have a moment:

    [1] Is it possible to create apps in RunRev that act as services, 
chugging away quietly in the background (like a web server, for example)?

    [2] Under Windows, is it possible for RunRev to put an icon in the 
System Tray and not in the Task Bar proper (in case I have my Win 
terminology wrong, by "System Tray" I mean those tiny little icons in the 
lower-right corner, and by "Task Bar proper" I mean those big rectangular 
buttons that show up across the bottom of the screen for each user 
application you're currently running).

Thanks!

Jim



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct  9 16:12:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct  9 16:12:01 2002
Subject: Where can I learn about Applescript and Revolution?
References: <c3.2a6139cf.2ad5dfd5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01cc01c26fd2$1b70fc80$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Basically you write the AppleScript as a string (either in a variable or
read from a field), and then say:

  do <container> as applescript

So to make the Finder activate, you can say:

put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote" & cr & \
  "activate" & cr & "end tell" into tScript
do tScript as AppleScript

For some cool ways to use AppleScript in Rev, take a look at the AppleScript
section of the Rev Tips and Tricks page on my site:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm

As far as reacting to appleEvents goes, you trap the "appleEvent" message in
your card or stack script, as in:

on appleEvent tClass, tID, tSender
  switch (tclass& tID)
  case "aevtoapp"
        -- trapped open application appleEvent
        break
  case "aevtodoc"
        -- trapped open document appleEvent
        break
  -- etc.
  end switch
end appleEvent

Hope this helps,


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: <RGould8 at aol.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 2:39 PM
Subject: Where can I learn about Applescript and Revolution?


> I'm trying to find "Applescript" in the Revolution documentation, and how
to
> go about making Applescript calls and reacting to Apple Events - - - can
> anyone point me to a web-site or tell me where in the docs I could find
more
> details on how this is done?
>



From RGould8 at aol.com  Wed Oct  9 16:16:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Wed Oct  9 16:16:01 2002
Subject: How to pass variable data between AppleScript and Revolution?
Message-ID: <d6.1dc6fca2.2ad5f53d@aol.com>

Jan/Ken & the listserve,

???? Thanks so much for your assistance in answering my AppleEvent 
questions.? Your answer has prompted me to think more about how I was 
approaching the issue, and now I'm wondering if I even need to use 
AppleEvents at all, if I can execute the AppleScript right from within 
Revolution.

     Ok, last Applescript question for the day, I believe.   I've learned so 
much in the past 1/2 hr on this list - - it's been great.

???? My ultimate goal is to write a Revolution app that:

1)? Launches Internet Explorer to a specific URL   ( The web-pages have lots 
of tables, and I need e-commerce security on these pages, otherwise I'd 
attempt displaying the pages in Revolution itself)
2)? Detects when the user has landed on a certain page
3)? Send the html text of that page back to Revolution for parsing

I presently have an AppleScript that runs an "idle" loop, constantly checking 
the title of the page within Internet Explorer, and when it detects the 
specific page I'm looking for, Applescript captures the HTML text from that 
page.

I'm wondering if I can eliminate the whole need to "sublaunch" the 
AppleScript App as a separate "self-running app", and just run the script 
itself within Revolution.

There are 3 gotchas that I can think of:

1)? Can I use an on-idle handler within Revolution that launches an 
AppleScript, so that I don't have to use Applescript's on-idle handler.? 
Would one be any better than the other?

2)? Once AppleScript captures the html text from Internet Explorer, how can I 
get that data back to a variable in Revolution?? Is there some sort of 
variable-passing language between Applescript and Revolution?   Or are 
AppleEvents the solution for passing variable data between AppleScript and 
Revolution?

3)   Is there a way to get a fairly large Applescript into a "do script" 
command?   The one-line-at-a-time-&-return method could get rather painful.
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From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  9 16:22:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  9 16:22:01 2002
Subject: Printing
In-Reply-To: <B45F23BB-DBC6-11D6-8750-003065F93AC8@conceptualize.com>
Message-ID: <544C1872-DBCC-11D6-8869-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 02:35  PM, Jeff Morrison wrote:

> I'm looking at both REALbasic and Revolution and I'm pretty sure I've 
> just discovered a huge problem with REALbasic, and I'm curious if 
> Revolution suffers from the same issue.  Printing.  RB printing seems 
> to be very, very, very tedious, requiring the user to define every 
> element, style, position on page,etc., all via code.  How does 
> Revolution handle printing?  Please tell me it's better.  - Jeff

It seems better in Rev, to me, although I have not done much printing 
in either environment. If I recall, in Realbasic, printing basically 
hands you a graphics context and you have to draw into it, unless you 
happen to have a view already containing what you want.

In Rev. you can print content at the level of stack, card, or field, 
and there are a fair number of commands for controlling the print 
output (margins, headers, scaling).

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed Oct  9 16:50:01 2002
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed Oct  9 16:50:01 2002
Subject: Shades of Color
Message-ID: <B9C9EE92.1C7E%dan@clearvisiontech.com>

Greetings!

Here's one for ya...

Does anyone know the algorithm to get a "Lighter" version of a RGB value?
For example, if you have a RGB value of a shade of Green (0,176,23), and you
want a version of this color that is 25% lighter (ie 25% more white).

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
-Dan



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Oct  9 16:59:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Oct  9 16:59:01 2002
Subject: Shades of Color
In-Reply-To: <a05111ac9b9ca545ceac8@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <313FA176-DBD1-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Convert the RGB values to HSV, then change S & V to alter the color 
characteristics while staying with the same hue. Then convert back to 
RGB to use it. If you want functions to do these conversions, let me 
know, but they are also available as part of Monte Goulding's 
ScriptLibrary (I forget the link but I think you can get to it through 
the User Contributions).

Sarah

On Thursday, October 10, 2002, at 07:47  am, Dan Friedman wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> Here's one for ya...
>
> Does anyone know the algorithm to get a "Lighter" version of a RGB 
> value?
> For example, if you have a RGB value of a shade of Green (0,176,23), 
> and you
> want a version of this color that is 25% lighter (ie 25% more white).
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> -Dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  9 17:13:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  9 17:13:01 2002
Subject: Shades of Color
In-Reply-To: <313FA176-DBD1-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <78C99096-DBD3-11D6-97C0-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 03:50  PM, Sarah wrote:

> Convert the RGB values to HSV, then change S & V to alter the color 
> characteristics while staying with the same hue. Then convert back to 
> RGB to use it. If you want functions to do these conversions, let me 
> know, but they are also available as part of Monte Goulding's 
> ScriptLibrary (I forget the link but I think you can get to it through 
> the User Contributions).

That's the correct way. Or if you want to cheat you can add a constant 
to the RGB value and check for <=255. White is 255,255,255.

(0,176,23) + 100 => (100,276,123) => (100,255,123) will give you a 
lighter colored green. It may not be the same hue though, and Sarah's 
way is better.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Oct  9 17:15:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Oct  9 17:15:01 2002
Subject: How to pass variable data between AppleScript and Revolution?
In-Reply-To: <a05111ac4b9ca4c630c67@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <9C683A52-DBD3-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Forget using Explorer (or any browser). Rev can retrieve the html page 
all by itself and put it in a variable or field for you to parse. This 
gives you a cross-platform system that doesn't rely on your user's 
having any other software installed.

	put URL "http://www.runrev.com/index.html" into field "Download"

This is the basic syntax. You can also use "load URL" to download the 
page in advance for quicker access. Don't forget that fields can 
display basic html:
	set the htmlText of field "Display" to field "Download"

Although this would be my preferred way to solve your problem, in 
answer to your AppleScript questions:

1. idle handlers are not recommended. Instead have a look at the docs 
for the send command if you need a repeating event. You can set up a 
handler that does the AppleScript and then say: send "getWebPage" to me 
in 10 seconds
Put this as the last line of the getWebPage script and it will keep 
repeating but without slowing down the rest of your system.

2. When you "do" an AppleScript, it can end in a "return" that sends 
back it's final data. After the "do" command, check "the result", for 
whatever the AppleScript returned.

3. Multi-line AppleScripts are best handled by storing the script in a 
custom property or hidden field. Then you can "do" the field or 
property. If you need to set variables in the AppleScript first, use 
placeholders and replace them with the variable before doing. Here is 
an example (untested but the theory works fine :-):

In a custom property of a button called "checkForProcess"

tell application "Finder"
	set processList to the processes
	if processList contains ***myApp*** then
		return "App is running"
	else
		return "App NOT running"
	end if
end tell

In the button, have this script:

on mouseUp
	put the checkForProcess of my into theScript
	replace "***myApp***" with quote & "Mail" & quote in the Script
	do theScript
	answer the result
end mouseUp


Cheers,
Sarah


On Thursday, October 10, 2002, at 07:13  am, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> Jan/Ken & the listserve,
>
> ???? Thanks so much for your assistance in answering my AppleEvent 
> questions.? Your answer has prompted me to think more about how I was 
> approaching the issue, and now I'm wondering if I even need to use 
> AppleEvents at all, if I can execute the AppleScript right from within 
> Revolution.
>
> ???? Ok, last Applescript question for the day, I believe.? I've 
> learned so much in the past 1/2 hr on this list - - it's been great.
>
> ???? My ultimate goal is to write a Revolution app that:
>
> 1)? Launches Internet Explorer to a specific URL? ( The web-pages have 
> lots of tables, and I need e-commerce security on these pages, 
> otherwise I'd attempt displaying the pages in Revolution itself)
> 2)? Detects when the user has landed on a certain page
> 3)? Send the html text of that page back to Revolution for parsing
>
> I presently have an AppleScript that runs an "idle" loop, constantly 
> checking the title of the page within Internet Explorer, and when it 
> detects the specific page I'm looking for, Applescript captures the 
> HTML text from that page.
>
> I'm wondering if I can eliminate the whole need to "sublaunch" the 
> AppleScript App as a separate "self-running app", and just run the 
> script itself within Revolution.
>
> There are 3 gotchas that I can think of:
>
> 1)? Can I use an on-idle handler within Revolution that launches an 
> AppleScript, so that I don't have to use Applescript's on-idle 
> handler.? Would one be any better than the other?
>
> 2)? Once AppleScript captures the html text from Internet Explorer, 
> how can I get that data back to a variable in Revolution?? Is there 
> some sort of variable-passing language between Applescript and 
> Revolution?? Or are AppleEvents the solution for passing variable data 
> between AppleScript and Revolution?
>
> 3)? Is there a way to get a fairly large Applescript into a "do 
> script" command?? The one-line-at-a-time-&-return method could get 
> rather painful.




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Oct  9 17:18:00 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Oct  9 17:18:00 2002
Subject: Tab Menus
In-Reply-To: <a05111a5db9c9ecc3a2e3@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <EC4F62F8-DBD3-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

There is an even easier way:

on menuPick pNewItem
	put the menuHistory of me into tabNumber
	-- do stuff with it
end menuPick


On Thursday, October 10, 2002, at 12:25  am, Ken Ray wrote:

>> Just thought I'd add a little thing to the answers by
>> Ken and Jeanne.
>> If you want to make your stack multi-lingual at some
>> point in the future, it might be more interesting to
>> find out which button is pressed: the first, second,
>> third,...
>
> Excellent suggestion, Jan. Always good to think about this when 
> developing.
>
>> In such cases, the following piece of code comes in
>> handy:
>>   on menuPick pNewItem
>>     put return & (the text of me) & return into \
>>       tText
>>     put return & pNewItem & return into tNewItem
>>     go card lineOffset(tNewItem, tText)
>>   end menuPick
>> The whole trick with prepending and appending returns
>> is to ensure that if you have two items "History B"
>> and "History" it still picks the correct line.
>
> You can do this a bit easier by setting the "wholematches" property:
>
> on menuPick pNewItem
>   set the wholeMatches to true
>   go card lineOffset(tNewItem,the text of me)
> end menuPick
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct  9 17:32:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct  9 17:32:01 2002
Subject: How to pass variable data between AppleScript and Revolution?
References: <d6.1dc6fca2.2ad5f53d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01f101c26fdc$b178d6d0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

> 1) Can I use an on-idle handler within Revolution that launches an
> AppleScript, so that I don't have to use Applescript's on-idle handler.
> Would one be any better than the other?

Not sure... what else is the 'idle' handler doing?

> 2) Once AppleScript captures the html text from Internet Explorer, how can
I
> get that data back to a variable in Revolution? Is there some sort of
> variable-passing language between Applescript and Revolution?   Or are
> AppleEvents the solution for passing variable data between AppleScript and
> Revolution?

In the last line of your AppleScript, just 'get' the returning value, which
will put it into 'it'. Then in Rev, check 'the result' to get 'it', as in:

-- Contents of field 1:

tell application "Finder"
  get the name of the startup disk
end tell

-- button script

on mouseUp
  do field 1 as appleScript
  put the result into tStartupDisk
end mouseUp

>
> 3)   Is there a way to get a fairly large Applescript into a "do script"
> command?   The one-line-at-a-time-&-return method could get rather
painful.

Sure. Easiest way to do it is to make sure the script works from the
AppleScript Script Editor and then copy and paste it into a field in Rev
that you 'do' as AppleScript.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Oct  9 17:32:28 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Oct  9 17:32:28 2002
Subject: Shades of Color
In-Reply-To: <B9C9EE92.1C7E%dan@clearvisiontech.com>
Message-ID: <2CD7991A-DBD6-11D6-8E24-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 03:32 PM, Dan Friedman wrote:

> Does anyone know the algorithm to get a "Lighter" version of a RGB value?
> For example, if you have a RGB value of a shade of Green (0,176,23), and 
> you
> want a version of this color that is 25% lighter (ie 25% more white).
>
> Any thoughts?

Maybe you can mix it with white.

Assume a color RGB vector, then...

lighterShadeOfGreen = (1-x) times shadeOfGreen + x times white

where x is, say, .25

This will move the color 25% of the way toward white, I think.  This would 
be in a straight line in RGB space.  I have no idea whether this is 
equivalent to what Sarah suggested.  The two methods might take different 
paths to white for all I know.

(The product of a number times a vector is the vector with each component 
multiplied by the number.  In terms of the RGB color this means taking each 
of R, G and B and multiplying by the number.  To add two vectors, add the 
components.  When arithmetic is all done, round each R, G and B to a whole 
number and limit to the 0 to 255 range.  If you need several colors, do all 
the calculations and then round.)

Dar Scott



From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  9 19:18:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  9 19:18:01 2002
Subject: shortcut for click "Apply"?
Message-ID: <EF3B6E75-DBE4-11D6-97C0-000393529642@mindlube.com>

Is there a keyboard shortcut for clicking "apply" in the script editor? 
I thought I read about it in Tips but now I can't find it.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From jeanne at runrev.com  Wed Oct  9 19:36:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Wed Oct  9 19:36:01 2002
Subject: shortcut for click "Apply"?
In-Reply-To: <EF3B6E75-DBE4-11D6-97C0-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <v0313030eb9ca7a57d6fc@[10.0.1.2]>

At 5:12 PM -0700 10/9/2002, Alex Rice wrote:
>Is there a keyboard shortcut for clicking "apply" in the script editor?
>I thought I read about it in Tips but now I can't find it.

Press Enter. (Press Enter again to close the script editor.)

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Oct  9 19:42:00 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Oct  9 19:42:00 2002
Subject: System Tray in Windows?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021009163922.02a1c9a0@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <4E32D1B7-DBE8-11D6-8E24-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 02:43 PM, Jim Biancolo wrote:

>    [1] Is it possible to create apps in RunRev that act as services, 
> chugging away quietly in the background (like a web server, for example)?

Hi, Jim!  I wrote this (below) to the list about half a year ago.  I'd 
double check everything.  If you find any trouble with this method, let us 
know.  Let me know!  I'm about to use it Real Soon Now.

-- Dar

> On Tuesday, April 2, 2002, at 09:16 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>
>> So, how'd you go about it?
>
> I used srvany.exe to run the standalone as a service.  It and 
> documentation is in the W2K resource kit.  (If you can find servany, but 
> not the help, let me know and I give a few tips.)  I couldn't get srvany.
> exe to work right by putting the standalone path into the "Start 
> Parameters" field in services; I had to change the registry.  (I didn't 
> use Revolution to change the registry, I wasn't sure whether it could add 
> keys.)
>
> I put my startup code in a handler named startup in the stack.  This 
> starts the send cycles and will eventually start the comm cycles.
>
> I was able to run the service with or without a GUI and with or without 
> network communication (UDP broadcast for testing).  (The common wisdom is 
> that Microsoft won't let you do both, so I don't know what I did for that.
> )  There is a check box in services which controls this:  "Allow services 
> to interact with desktop."  While you are logged out, the GUI is invisible.
>
> I haven't tested whether openCard or openStack are called when the GUI is 
> turned off.
>
> If you know you will not need the GUI you might see if the service loads 
> faster if you make the stack invisible.  I haven't tested this.  (I 
> imagine the standalone going through the motions of painting, but the 
> painting having no effect.)
>
> I haven't set up the dependencies yet.  I don't think I have to since TCP/
> IP loads as a driver before the services.
>
> I bet one could run the simple chat demo as a service this way.
>
> That's all I know and perhaps a little more.



From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  9 19:57:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  9 19:57:01 2002
Subject: shortcut for click "Apply"?
In-Reply-To: <v0313030eb9ca7a57d6fc@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <65C2C244-DBEA-11D6-97C0-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 06:29  PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 5:12 PM -0700 10/9/2002, Alex Rice wrote:
>> Is there a keyboard shortcut for clicking "apply" in the script 
>> editor?
>> I thought I read about it in Tips but now I can't find it.
>
> Press Enter. (Press Enter again to close the script editor.)

Oh yeah-- that's what I thought I read. Does this work on OS X too? 
When I hit "return" in the script editor, I get a new line in my 
script, not apply or closing.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From jeanne at runrev.com  Wed Oct  9 20:07:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Wed Oct  9 20:07:01 2002
Subject: shortcut for click "Apply"?
In-Reply-To: <65C2C244-DBEA-11D6-97C0-000393529642@mindlube.com>
References: <v0313030eb9ca7a57d6fc@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <v03130310b9ca81667f98@[10.0.1.2]>

At 5:51 PM -0700 10/9/2002, Alex Rice wrote:
>On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 06:29  PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>
>> At 5:12 PM -0700 10/9/2002, Alex Rice wrote:
>>> Is there a keyboard shortcut for clicking "apply" in the script
>>> editor?
>>> I thought I read about it in Tips but now I can't find it.
>>
>> Press Enter. (Press Enter again to close the script editor.)
>
>Oh yeah-- that's what I thought I read. Does this work on OS X too?
>When I hit "return" in the script editor, I get a new line in my
>script, not apply or closing.

Make sure it's the Enter key, not the Return key.

(Some TiBooks - maybe other recent Macs? not sure - don't have an Enter key
- for these you hit Fn-Return to get the Enter key.)

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  9 20:26:02 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  9 20:26:02 2002
Subject: shortcut for click "Apply"?
In-Reply-To: <v03130310b9ca81667f98@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <713CA39C-DBEE-11D6-97C0-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 07:00  PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 5:51 PM -0700 10/9/2002, Alex Rice wrote:
>> Oh yeah-- that's what I thought I read. Does this work on OS X too?
>> When I hit "return" in the script editor, I get a new line in my
>> script, not apply or closing.
>
> Make sure it's the Enter key, not the Return key.
>
> (Some TiBooks - maybe other recent Macs? not sure - don't have an 
> Enter key
> - for these you hit Fn-Return to get the Enter key.)

DOH! I get it now. On my Apple Pro keyboard the enter key is at the 
bottom right of the numeric keypad. That works. Function-Return works 
as "Enter" on my Dell laptop w/ Windows.

BTW a big -thanks- for putting Emacs keybindings in Rev. Now my two 
favorite IDEs in the world, Revolution and Apple Project Builder, both 
have Emacs keybindings.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From RGould8 at aol.com  Wed Oct  9 20:47:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Wed Oct  9 20:47:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
Message-ID: <3b.2dcd2ef0.2ad6348d@aol.com>

This sounds like a great idea - - however I must be doing something wrong.   
If I go into the messagebox and type:

put URL "http://www.runrev.com/index.html" into temp
put "temp = " & temp

I get no results.   I tried a bunch of other URLs like (http://www.apple.com) 
and didn't get anything either.   I'm definetely connected to the network, as 
I'm able to send out this email message on AOL.   (Perhaps AOL's the problem 
- - - I'm on dialup).   I'm on Mac OS X, (Jaguar).   I'm in authoring mode, 
so I would think I'd have all the internet tools available, right?

When I do get this working, will I be able to have the user click on the 
hyperlinks displayed on the web-page that's displayed as HTML in that field?  
 In other words, is it just like embedding a browser on the card, or is this 
just a means of displaying a page to the user, but they can't click on 
hyperlinks.   If this does let me treat that field like an actual browser, 
with clickable hyperlinks, I will be extremely impressed with Revolution.

- Rob


In a message dated 10/9/02 6:11:32 PM, sarahr at genesearch.com.au writes:


> Forget using Explorer (or any browser). Rev can retrieve the html page
> all by itself and put it in a variable or field for you to parse. This
> gives you a cross-platform system that doesn't rely on your user's
> having any other software installed.
> 
> ? ? put URL "http://www.runrev.com/index.html" into field "Download"
> 
> This is the basic syntax. You can also use "load URL" to download the
> page in advance for quicker access. Don't forget that fields can
> display basic html:
> ? ? set the htmlText of field "Display" to field "Download"
> 

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From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Oct  9 21:44:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Oct  9 21:44:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <a05111a13b9ca8be8ef99@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <577F6396-DBF9-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Are you using the multiline message box? It's probably best to try it 
from a button. That way you can be sure all the steps are being used.

You can embed clickable hyperlinks in any field. Enter your test, set 
it's style to "Link" and there it is. To do something with it, you need 
a "linkClicked" handler in the field, which can do various things with 
the link.

on linkClicked theLink
	 --  open the default browser and show the selected link
	revGoURL theLink

	 -- opens the default emailer and creates a new email to the linked 
address (Mac only)
	revGoURL ("matilto:" & theLink)
	
	-- loads the web page and displays internally
	put URL theLink into me
	set the htmlText of me to me
	-- if the web page uses relative addressing, you may need to add the 
root address first
	-- e.g. put URL ("http://www.runrev.com/" & theLink) into me
end linkClicked

Sarah


On Thursday, October 10, 2002, at 11:44  am, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> This sounds like a great idea - - however I must be doing something 
> wrong.? If I go into the messagebox and type:
>
> put URL "http://www.runrev.com/index.html" into temp
> put "temp = " & temp
>
> I get no results.? I tried a bunch of other URLs like 
> (http://www.apple.com) and didn't get anything either.? I'm definetely 
> connected to the network, as I'm able to send out this email message 
> on AOL.? (Perhaps AOL's the problem - - - I'm on dialup).? I'm on Mac 
> OS X, (Jaguar).? I'm in authoring mode, so I would think I'd have all 
> the internet tools available, right?
>
> When I do get this working, will I be able to have the user click on 
> the hyperlinks displayed on the web-page that's displayed as HTML in 
> that field?? In other words, is it just like embedding a browser on 
> the card, or is this just a means of displaying a page to the user, 
> but they can't click on hyperlinks.? If this does let me treat that 
> field like an actual browser, with clickable hyperlinks, I will be 
> extremely impressed with Revolution.
>




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct  9 21:53:01 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Oct  9 21:53:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <3b.2dcd2ef0.2ad6348d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B9CA3895.7F4A%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> This sounds like a great idea - - however I must be doing something wrong.
> If I go into the messagebox and type:
> 
> put URL "http://www.runrev.com/index.html" into temp
> put "temp = " & temp
> 
> I get no results.   I tried a bunch of other URLs like (http://www.apple.com)
> and didn't get anything either.   I'm definetely connected to the network, as
> I'm able to send out this email message on AOL.   (Perhaps AOL's the problem -
> - - I'm on dialup).   I'm on Mac OS X, (Jaguar).   I'm in authoring mode, so I
> would think I'd have all the internet tools available, right?
> 
> When I do get this working, will I be able to have the user click on the
> hyperlinks displayed on the web-page that's displayed as HTML in that field?
> In other words, is it just like embedding a browser on the card, or is this
> just a means of displaying a page to the user, but they can't click on
> hyperlinks.   If this does let me treat that field like an actual browser,
> with clickable hyperlinks, I will be extremely impressed with Revolution.

This doesn't put *rendered* HTML in a field -- the HTML source of the URL is
placed there, and it's up to you to decide if/how you want to parse it for
links, etc.  Doing this is definitely possible, but depending on the
complexity of the HTML, it may or may not be a trivial job.

Note for Rev/MC teams:

I've seen the "Can I view HTML pages in Rev/MC?" questions come up time and
again on the Rev and MC lists, and perhaps it's just me, but it seems that
the answers given often skirt the intent of the original question.  IMO, it
would be more useful for new users to be told directly that Rev/MC does
*not* provide an embedded Web browser, nor does it render HTML on its own.
I believe it would be in your best interest as the creators of the tools to
reference Rev/MC's ability to display *HTML source* and not the rendered
HTML pages that folks see in a Web browser.

Two cents...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  9 22:26:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  9 22:26:01 2002
Subject: Expert Systems?
In-Reply-To: <8AE212EB-DB76-11D6-99BF-0003934AC252@medecine.univ-mrs.fr>
Message-ID: <3D13E41E-DBFF-11D6-B9BC-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 05:02  AM, Herve Proudhon wrote:

> In my experience (and in the narrow limits I described), the main 
> problems are not technical but are in the validation process and the 
> expertise transfer :
>    - how to extract the knowledge from experts
>    - how to structure the knowledge (choice of intermediate goals) to 
> avoid exponential and completeness problems.

You make it sound so easy!

I know enough Math to know that I don't want to write my own inference 
engine :-)

I am leaning towards using Revolution to provide an easy front-end to 
writing rules for the CLIPS engine, which I will run as a shell 
process. Once that much is working I may look at building CLIPS as a 
Revolution external.

Unless anyone has open-source examples of expert systems in xtalk or 
TCL?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From runrev at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  9 23:07:01 2002
From: runrev at hotmail.com (Jerry Thomas)
Date: Wed Oct  9 23:07:01 2002
Subject: Wouldn't a forum be a far better idea?
Message-ID: <F69qKQRf9mfeIZh4Gne00017c0b@hotmail.com>


Dear Mailing List Participants,

I have been using the runrev mailing list for a few weeks now and OK I'm a 
newbie to revolution.

But, because I am a developer who uses several different software packages I 
belong to several different use groups and I'm not a newbie to multimedia or 
support.

I believe(with much experience behind it)that the user mailing list is a 
very poor way to assist users and that FORUMS are by far the better idea.  
Yes, I know, most Rev users are so used to this system that change may be 
resisted but the long term best interests of everybody would be served by 
the changeover to a forum method.

WHY A FORUM METHOD?

First topics are defined by the header and replies go directly underneath 
that header so when a user responds to a given thread it can easily be 
understood. With the mailing list, unless you republish the question the 
reply just hangs there in space with no context. With the forum method the 
next replier can reply to the reply and to the general topic and be well 
understood.

There is so much repeated,republished text in the mailing list method that 
just wastes time and space but without which the list would be 
incomprehensible.

Second forums provide continuity, with a search function you can quickly 
determine whether someone asked your same question months or even years ago 
with out searching archives.

Third, forums can provide a way to separate topics so that one doesn't have 
to read many,many  posts that are unrelated or irelevant to your project or 
topic.


Everytime I go to read the Runrev mailing list I come away needing eye drops 
and aspirin for my head.


The interesting thing is that you already have a forum but have relegated it 
to newbies.  The truth is that newbies can't teach newbies very well. The 
best thing for learning is a mix of a pool of experienced users who are 
willing to help and newbies willing to learn.

I think both your experienced users and your newbies (if you intend for the 
company and community to grow) would be far better off moving over to the 
existing forum and the company Runtime Revolution would be better off if it 
had easier to understand support.

Check out a high quality forum for Multimedia Builder at www.mediachance.com 
(web boards from the menu on the home page)  Like Run rev this is a real 
COMMUNITY of users.  The forum method means that you can follow the 
conversations and learn from topics and threads that can go back months and 
even in one case years.

Right now as it stands you have a very difficult to understand mailing list 
and a sorely treated, almost competely unused forum.

Thanks for listening.  I'm just trying to help you build a better company 
and user community.

What do people think about moving this user group over into the existing 
forum?   Any Comments or suggestions?

Thanks again

Jerry

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Oct  9 23:39:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed Oct  9 23:39:00 2002
Subject: Wouldn't a forum be a far better idea?
In-Reply-To: <F69qKQRf9mfeIZh4Gne00017c0b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5061B89E-DC09-11D6-B9BC-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 10:00  PM, Jerry Thomas wrote:
> What do people think about moving this user group over into the 
> existing forum?   Any Comments or suggestions?

I definitely vote for a mailing list instead of web forum. The runrev 
list fits right alongside the other 20 or so mailing lists I try to 
keep up with. In fact the runrev list is only about 10 to 20 messages 
per day... That really a pretty low volume for a mailing list.

My mail client (Apple Mail.app) can sort by Subject, Sender, Date and 
does keyword searches. Most web forum software cannot do that. Some 
mail clients can do subject threading too.

I have always found web based forums to be a pain in the butt to use, 
slow, poor user interfaces. However, I do like forums when one can 
start one's own topic at a relatively high level. But that feature 
always gets misused and then it requires a moderator.

How about a Wiki? Probably there is one already?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 10 00:06:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Oct 10 00:06:01 2002
Subject: Wouldn't a forum be a far better idea?
In-Reply-To: <5061B89E-DC09-11D6-B9BC-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <B9CA578F.1DF84%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> 
> On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 10:00  PM, Jerry Thomas wrote:
>> What do people think about moving this user group over into the
>> existing forum?   Any Comments or suggestions?

It sounds to me as though once RunRev adds a search feature to its archives
we pretty much have all the requested bases covered, no?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From jeanne at runrev.com  Thu Oct 10 01:56:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu Oct 10 01:56:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <3b.2dcd2ef0.2ad6348d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v03130313b9cacfbfe720@[10.0.1.2]>

At 6:40 PM -0700 10/9/2002, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:
>If I go into the messagebox and type:
>
> put URL "http://www.runrev.com/index.html" into temp
> put "temp = " & temp
>
> I get no results.

Hmmm. It ought to work. It does take a few seconds typically to fetch the
page. Do you get no result at all, or do you get "temp = " in the message
box with no HTML following it?


> When I do get this working, will I be able to have the user click on
>the hyperlinks displayed on the web-page that's displayed as HTML
>in that field?

Yes, but you will have to do a bit of extra scripting to enable it.

What Revolution does when it sees a hyperlink in HTML (an "a href" tag) is
make that text into a text group by setting its textStyle to "link". The
text group's linkText property is set to the link's URL. When you click a
text group, a linkClicked message is sent, with the linkText as its
parameter.

To make clicking on a link actually do something useful, you need to
install a linkClicked handler in your field script (or further along the
message path):

  on linkClicked theLink
    get URL theLink
    set the htmlText of me to it
  end linkClicked

This gets the contents of the URL referenced by the link, and sets the
htmlText of the field to that new URL. (You might also want to do something
different with this, such as go to the referenced page in a browser
instead, download it to disk, etc.)

(This also assumes the link reference contains an absolute URL
("http://www.example.com/file.html") rather than a relative URL
("../file.html") - if the page may have relative URLs, and of course most
do, a bit of extra scripting will be needed to generate the correct
absolute URL based on either the current page's URL, or the base URL in the
document <head>.)

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Thu Oct 10 01:56:23 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu Oct 10 01:56:23 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <B9CA3895.7F4A%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <3b.2dcd2ef0.2ad6348d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v03130314b9cad05c0be2@[10.0.1.2]>

At 7:48 PM -0700 10/9/2002, Scott Rossi wrote:
>I've seen the "Can I view HTML pages in Rev/MC?" questions come up time and
>again on the Rev and MC lists, and perhaps it's just me, but it seems that
>the answers given often skirt the intent of the original question.  IMO, it
>would be more useful for new users to be told directly that Rev/MC does
>*not* provide an embedded Web browser, nor does it render HTML on its own.
>I believe it would be in your best interest as the creators of the tools to
>reference Rev/MC's ability to display *HTML source* and not the rendered
>HTML pages that folks see in a Web browser.

Um... but it does render HTML, via the htmlText property. Not all of the
HTML 4.0 spec, certainly, but it renders basic inline styling, images, and
links. That's not enough for all purposes but it seems to me it is enough
to say that Rev "renders HTML on its own".

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Thu Oct 10 02:29:01 2002
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 02:29:01 2002
Subject: Wouldn't a forum be a far better idea?
In-Reply-To: <F69qKQRf9mfeIZh4Gne00017c0b@hotmail.com> 
References: <F69qKQRf9mfeIZh4Gne00017c0b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20021010072333.11019.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

I vote with Jerry for a forum. When I first started to go through the 
mailing list archives, it was a real nuisance to not have topics with the 
threads beneath them. 

The mailing list isn't such a good format for newbies, but its limitations 
go almost unnoticed by the regulars. Isn't a large part of the 
Revolution/MetaCard goal to attract and keep newbies? If yes, then more 
emphasis should be placed there. 

I belong to or lurk several MM authoring forums. I've seen several designs 
that are very good. There is no reason why a good one (with good design, UI, 
etc.) couldn't be implemented for the Revolution community. This is, 
afterall the 21st century people... 

miscdas
Jerry Thomas writes: 

>  
> 
> Dear Mailing List Participants, 
> 
> I have been using the runrev mailing list for a few weeks now and OK I'm a 
> newbie to revolution. 
> 
> But, because I am a developer who uses several different software packages 
> I belong to several different use groups and I'm not a newbie to 
> multimedia or support. 
> 
> I believe(with much experience behind it)that the user mailing list is a 
> very poor way to assist users and that FORUMS are by far the better idea.  
> Yes, I know, most Rev users are so used to this system that change may be 
> resisted but the long term best interests of everybody would be served by 
> the changeover to a forum method. 
> 
> WHY A FORUM METHOD? 
> 
> First topics are defined by the header and replies go directly underneath 
> that header so when a user responds to a given thread it can easily be 
> understood. With the mailing list, unless you republish the question the 
> reply just hangs there in space with no context. With the forum method the 
> next replier can reply to the reply and to the general topic and be well 
> understood. 
> 
> There is so much repeated,republished text in the mailing list method that 
> just wastes time and space but without which the list would be 
> incomprehensible. 
> 
> Second forums provide continuity, with a search function you can quickly 
> determine whether someone asked your same question months or even years 
> ago with out searching archives. 
> 
> Third, forums can provide a way to separate topics so that one doesn't 
> have to read many,many  posts that are unrelated or irelevant to your 
> project or topic. 
> 
> 
> Everytime I go to read the Runrev mailing list I come away needing eye 
> drops and aspirin for my head. 
> 
> 
> The interesting thing is that you already have a forum but have relegated 
> it to newbies.  The truth is that newbies can't teach newbies very well. 
> The best thing for learning is a mix of a pool of experienced users who 
> are willing to help and newbies willing to learn. 
> 
> I think both your experienced users and your newbies (if you intend for 
> the company and community to grow) would be far better off moving over to 
> the existing forum and the company Runtime Revolution would be better off 
> if it had easier to understand support. 
> 
> Check out a high quality forum for Multimedia Builder at 
> www.mediachance.com (web boards from the menu on the home page)  Like Run 
> rev this is a real COMMUNITY of users.  The forum method means that you 
> can follow the conversations and learn from topics and threads that can go 
> back months and even in one case years. 
> 
> Right now as it stands you have a very difficult to understand mailing 
> list and a sorely treated, almost competely unused forum. 
> 
> Thanks for listening.  I'm just trying to help you build a better company 
> and user community. 
> 
> What do people think about moving this user group over into the existing 
> forum?   Any Comments or suggestions? 
> 
> Thanks again 
> 
> Jerry 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
 


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 10 03:03:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Oct 10 03:03:01 2002
Subject: Wouldn't a forum be a far better idea?
In-Reply-To: <20021010072333.11019.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <B9CA8100.1DFA5%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:

> I vote with Jerry for a forum. When I first started to go through the
> mailing list archives, it was a real nuisance to not have topics with the
> threads beneath them.

Like this?:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-October/thread.html#s
tart>

> The mailing list isn't such a good format for newbies, but its limitations
> go almost unnoticed by the regulars. Isn't a large part of the
> Revolution/MetaCard goal to attract and keep newbies? If yes, then more
> emphasis should be placed there.

The mailing-list-vs.-newsgroups/forms/etc. topic was a sizeable thread on
the CHI-Web list last year.  The outcome of the discussion seemed to be that
the ubiquity of mailing lists must be for a reason, that the alternatives
have their own limitations making email only slightly less of several evils.

But I also find them limited (esp. without a search facility for the
archives), and I think you're onto something here:

> I belong to or lurk several MM authoring forums. I've seen several designs
> that are very good. There is no reason why a good one (with good design, UI,
> etc.) couldn't be implemented for the Revolution community. This is,
> afterall the 21st century people...

Adobe's Web forums are also NNTP servers, so one can log in using either a
Web browser or Usenet client as they prefer.  While most folks there seem to
use a browser, I log in with Newswatcher.

It would be cool if interaction with the Rev list could happen in at least
two forms: email and the Web.

Extra bonus points if they do it in a way that makes it easy to access via
HTTP, so one could build a really cool RevList client right into the Rev
environment as a plug-in.  :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From peter at pixelkrunch.com.au  Thu Oct 10 03:13:01 2002
From: peter at pixelkrunch.com.au (peter at pixelkrunch.com.au)
Date: Thu Oct 10 03:13:01 2002
Subject: Serial Ports
Message-ID: <20021010180800.012103@mail.tpg.com.au>

Hello
The documentation specifies using the "open file" command for accessing 
serial ports under OS X. If I have a USB to serial converter, built in modem 
etc. How do I get a list of all the devices so that I can then pick the USB 
to serial converter.

Cheers
Peter Van Schellebeck


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Oct 10 03:21:01 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Oct 10 03:21:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <v03130314b9cad05c0be2@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <B9CA856F.7F7C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

>> I've seen the "Can I view HTML pages in Rev/MC?" questions come up time and
>> again on the Rev and MC lists, and perhaps it's just me, but it seems that
>> the answers given often skirt the intent of the original question.  IMO, it
>> would be more useful for new users to be told directly that Rev/MC does
>> *not* provide an embedded Web browser, nor does it render HTML on its own.
>> I believe it would be in your best interest as the creators of the tools to
>> reference Rev/MC's ability to display *HTML source* and not the rendered
>> HTML pages that folks see in a Web browser.
> 
> Um... but it does render HTML, via the htmlText property. Not all of the
> HTML 4.0 spec, certainly, but it renders basic inline styling, images, and
> links. That's not enough for all purposes but it seems to me it is enough
> to say that Rev "renders HTML on its own".

Well, one of the original questions was "is it just like embedding a browser
on the card".  Sure, Rev/MC can display HTML formatted text, and can display
images referenced from a URL, but this is a far cry from displaying a
rendered page layout in which the aforementioned elements appear.  And if
one needs to display tables, background images, frames, javascript and the
plethora of other features that define the HTML/browser experience, it would
seem the claim "renders HTML on its own" is something of a stretch.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu  Thu Oct 10 03:48:01 2002
From: Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu (Timothy Hart)
Date: Thu Oct 10 03:48:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <017101c26f9f$3e98f510$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <fc.004c4d190f2a32dc004c4d190f2a32dc.f2a3692@umit.maine.edu>
 <017101c26f9f$3e98f510$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <fc.004c4d190f2e20c9004c4d190f2a32dc.f2e228a@umit.maine.edu>

use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes:
>Tim,
>
>Unfortunately you can't save data back into a standalone, but there are a
>number of other options available:
>
>1) Store your data in a stack that is opened/referenced from the standalone.
>Although the standalone itself can't be modified, the stack on disk can.
I don't think I can do this one since I want the person using my program to not have to have Rev open.
>
>
>2) Store your data in a text file that you read and write to.
How do I do this?
>
>
>3) Store your data in a database (like mySQL, Access, etc.) and use Rev's
>database features to read and write to the database.
Could I do this with filemaker as well.  
>
>
>If you need more help, let us know,
>
>Ken Ray


-Tim









From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Thu Oct 10 04:18:01 2002
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 04:18:01 2002
Subject: Wouldn't a forum be a far better idea?
In-Reply-To: <B9CA8100.1DFA5%ambassador@fourthworld.com> 
References: <B9CA8100.1DFA5%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20021010091247.69212.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Yes Richard! A threaded list like this would be a terrific improvement to 
the mailing list. Did you make it, or is there some search filter that isn't 
well documented in the mailig list? (If it isn't well documented, WHY NOT??) 

miscdas
====== 


Richard Gaskin writes:
< [snip]
> miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote: 
> 
>> I vote with Jerry for a forum. When I first started to go through the
>> mailing list archives, it was a real nuisance to not have topics with the
>> threads beneath them.
> 
> Like this?:
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-October/thread.html#s
> tart>


From simon-lists at ldml.com  Thu Oct 10 04:30:01 2002
From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster)
Date: Thu Oct 10 04:30:01 2002
Subject: New User questions
In-Reply-To: <5F9BFFF4-DBAE-11D6-890D-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <F8F63A98-DC31-11D6-ADCF-0050E4CE1D03@ldml.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 06:41 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> When you startup Revolution, change View | Look and Feel to "Mac OS 
> Emulated"

Alex

Thanks for your replies. I'll give the "Mac OS Emulated" trick a try.

> see the Tutorials & the Development Guide

I'll go through the tutorials.

> click on Roadmap

Ah. Found it. Perfect. The full listing of the Transcript Language was 
just what I was looking for ? Roadmap -> Transcript Language Dictionary.

Thanks

Simon Forster
_________________________________________________
BabelFix Ltd, Office One, 16 Canham Road, London, W3 7SR, UK
<tel int="+44 20 8746 0555" uk="020 8746 0555">
<tel int="+44 70 9230 5244" uk="070 9230 5244">
<fax int="+44 70 9230 5247" uk="070 9230 5247">
<mailto:simon at babelfix.com>
_________________________________________________



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Thu Oct 10 04:39:00 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Thu Oct 10 04:39:00 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <fc.004c4d190f2e20c9004c4d190f2a32dc.f2e228a@umit.maine.edu>
Message-ID: <51680C72-DC33-11D6-8E4B-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Thursday, Oct 10, 2002, at 06:31 Australia/Sydney, Timothy Hart 
wrote:

> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes:
>> Tim,
>>
>> Unfortunately you can't save data back into a standalone, but there 
>> are a
>> number of other options available:
>>
>> 1) Store your data in a stack that is opened/referenced from the 
>> standalone.
>> Although the standalone itself can't be modified, the stack on disk 
>> can.
> I don't think I can do this one since I want the person using my 
> program to not have to have Rev open.

Tim

The user does not need to have the development environment open. Your 
app will still open stacks which it references.
>>
>>
>> 2) Store your data in a text file that you read and write to.
> How do I do this?

For this, and also on using data stacks, look under Help for Revolution 
Documentation then in the Road Map choose Development Guide, then Files 
Folders and Resources, and there you will find considerable guidance on 
the issues about which you ask. By offering you this tour, I hope also 
to familiarise you more with the documentation itself, which will 
assist you in the future.

Regardless, please come back to me if the reference I gave you is not 
clear enough, or any time you have a question on any topic.

regards
David
>>
>>
>> 3) Store your data in a database (like mySQL, Access, etc.) and use 
>> Rev's
>> database features to read and write to the database.
> Could I do this with filemaker as well.
>>
>>
>> If you need more help, let us know,
>>
>> Ken Ray
>
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Thu Oct 10 04:44:00 2002
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 04:44:00 2002
Subject: Wouldn't a forum be a far better idea?
In-Reply-To: <20021010091247.69212.qmail@www.boxfrog.com> 
References: <B9CA8100.1DFA5%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
            <20021010091247.69212.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <20021010093810.10015.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Oh, now I see... 

I have always navigated with a shortcut to the list of the month rather than 
going shallower in the URL, so I never saw the Threads option. 

miscdas
==========
[snip] 

miscdas at boxfrog.com writes: 

> Yes Richard! A threaded list like this would be a terrific improvement to 
> the mailing list. Did you make it, or is there some search filter that 
> isn't well documented in the mailig list? (If it isn't well documented, 
> WHY NOT??)  
> 
> miscdas
> ====== 


From mrtea at mac.com  Thu Oct 10 07:22:01 2002
From: mrtea at mac.com (Mr Tea)
Date: Thu Oct 10 07:22:01 2002
Subject: Wouldn't a forum be a far better idea?
In-Reply-To: <F69qKQRf9mfeIZh4Gne00017c0b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B9CB2E07.69BA%mrtea@mac.com>

This from Jerry Thomas - dated 10-10-02 05.00 am:

> I believe(with much experience behind it)that the user mailing list is a
> very poor way to assist users and that FORUMS are by far the better idea.

It's probably a matter of personal choice. I prefer mailing lists because
they come to me, rather than me having to go to them. Having to deal with
the list mail makes me interact more thouroughly with it than I would when
looking down a list of subject headings on a web page. I often stumble
across interesting lines of enquiry that aren't relevant to what I'm doing
at the time, but could make useful reading later - so I drag them into an
archive folder.

I also think the business of having to actively deal with the constant
influx of messages increases the likelyhood that a message will generate a
response. That's certainly the case on lists where I know enough to provide
some of the answers.

Just my tuppeny bit.


Nick
pp Mr Tea



From jamesjrichards at lineone.net  Thu Oct 10 08:10:01 2002
From: jamesjrichards at lineone.net (James Richards)
Date: Thu Oct 10 08:10:01 2002
Subject: Wouldn't a forum be a far better idea?
In-Reply-To: <200210100630.CAA05920@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9CB19F0.25D8%jamesjrichards@lineone.net>

on 09/10/02 9:00 pm, "Jerry Thomas" at runrev at hotmail.com wrote:

> the long term best interests of everybody would be served by
> the changeover to a forum method.

Not for those of us who take the digest and browse it offline at our
leisure. There are more than a few of us home based private use programmers
who pay by the minute for telephone access to our ISPs (even if it is only
local call rates).

Besides seeing the lot means that I find out about things which I would
never see if I simply went to a forum to investigate a particular issue.

Regards

James
-- 
James J Richards

jamesjrichards at lineone.net

Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063 



From webmaster at listology.com  Thu Oct 10 08:57:01 2002
From: webmaster at listology.com (Jim Biancolo)
Date: Thu Oct 10 08:57:01 2002
Subject: Wouldn't a forum be a far better idea?
In-Reply-To: <B9CA578F.1DF84%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <5061B89E-DC09-11D6-B9BC-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021010094343.02bda208@mail.berkshire.net>

At 10:00 PM 10/9/2002 -0700, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 10:00  PM, Jerry Thomas wrote:
> >> What do people think about moving this user group over into the
> >> existing forum?   Any Comments or suggestions?
>
>It sounds to me as though once RunRev adds a search feature to its archives
>we pretty much have all the requested bases covered, no?

Googling the lists has worked pretty well for me:

    http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com

Unfortunately Google doesn't seem to have September or October 
indexed.  I'm not sure why.  Perhaps a change to the robots.txt file is 
keeping the Google spider away?  In any case, I think whoever maintains the 
list could get Google to start indexing again without much trouble.

Jim



From cowhead at mac.com  Thu Oct 10 09:17:01 2002
From: cowhead at mac.com (mark mitchell)
Date: Thu Oct 10 09:17:01 2002
Subject: Neural net
In-Reply-To: <200210091333.JAA12937@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <17CFAB1C-DC5A-11D6-91A6-0030656DAB8E@mac.com>

Jim wrote:

>  A recent
> problem given in my Artificial Intelligence class was to write a
> three-layer neural network (1 hidden layer) and then write a
> backpropagation routine to train it on handwritten digit data (in
> Scheme, of all programming lanauges!)  Now, In Scheme, I'm probably
> going to get about 50 percent of it done.  In C, I think I could have
> gotten about 70-100 percent of it done.  In Rev, I think I might have
> been able to finish it, as well as making a nice graphical
> representation of the network and a testing routine, almost "for free"

It's funny you mention this as I was JUST about to write and ask 
(following the 'expert system' thread) if someone had implemented such a 
beast yet.  I would like to make a simple neural net with one or two 
layers of hidden units to implement some experiments I'm doing.  It 
doesn't seem like it would be that tough to do in rev/meta.  I was 
thinking of just using lines in a field/variable to represent each node, 
with the rest of the information contained in various hierarchical items 
in the lines, but perhaps there is a better way of doing it or someone 
already has something finished that they could share.  Anyone?

mark mitchell
Japan



From cowhead at mac.com  Thu Oct 10 09:27:01 2002
From: cowhead at mac.com (mark mitchell)
Date: Thu Oct 10 09:27:01 2002
Subject: numeric field
In-Reply-To: <200210091333.JAA12937@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <802C47D7-DC5B-11D6-91A6-0030656DAB8E@mac.com>

Jan wrote:

> Example: if you want a field that only accepts numeric
> input, here's what you would do:
>
> 1) Java: create a new subclass JNumericField of
> JTextField (i don't have my books at hand right now,
> so it could be a different class) and make it so that
> it only accepts numeric input. Then, whenever you need
> a numeric field, you make an instance of that class.
>
> 2) RunRev: look at the use-revolution archive and copy
> the script I posted a week or so ago ;-)
>

I was too busy when you posted that, but I didn't understand why a very 
simple script doesn't work for this.  I use this in a field script if I 
want to restrict it to numeric input:

on keydown whichKey
   if whichKey is a number then
     pass keyDown
   end if
end keydown

It works fine.  What was the point of that long winded thing?

mark mitchell
Japan



From Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu  Thu Oct 10 09:45:01 2002
From: Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu (Timothy Hart)
Date: Thu Oct 10 09:45:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <51680C72-DC33-11D6-8E4B-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
References: <51680C72-DC33-11D6-8E4B-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <fc.004c4d190f31316f004c4d190f2a32dc.f3132f1@umit.maine.edu>

use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes:
>For this, and also on using data stacks, look under Help for Revolution 
>Documentation then in the Road Map choose Development Guide, then Files 
>Folders and Resources, and there you will find considerable guidance on 
>the issues about which you ask. By offering you this tour, I hope also 
>to familiarise you more with the documentation itself, which will 
>assist you in the future.
>
>Regardless, please come back to me if the reference I gave you is not 
>clear enough, or any time you have a question on any topic.
>
>regards
>David
Sorry to keep bugging about this but I just don't have it yet.  I do have the documentation even in print form.  I can't even get rev to write to a test file.  I guess that would work.  What I guess I would really like to do is have other stacks
linked to my stand alone that would be able to be saved.  I am not sure how to do this though.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thank.

-Tim









From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 10 09:54:03 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Oct 10 09:54:03 2002
Subject: numeric field
In-Reply-To: <802C47D7-DC5B-11D6-91A6-0030656DAB8E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20021010144815.87232.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- mark mitchell <cowhead at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> Jan wrote:
> 
> > Example: if you want a field that only accepts
> numeric
> > input, here's what you would do:
> >
> > 1) Java: create a new subclass JNumericField of
> > JTextField (i don't have my books at hand right
> now,
> > so it could be a different class) and make it so
> that
> > it only accepts numeric input. Then, whenever you
> need
> > a numeric field, you make an instance of that
> class.
> >
> > 2) RunRev: look at the use-revolution archive and
> copy
> > the script I posted a week or so ago ;-)
> >
> 
> I was too busy when you posted that, but I didn't
> understand why a very 
> simple script doesn't work for this.  I use this in
> a field script if I 
> want to restrict it to numeric input:
> 
> on keydown whichKey
>    if whichKey is a number then
>      pass keyDown
>    end if
> end keydown
> 
> It works fine.  What was the point of that long
> winded thing?
> 
> mark mitchell
> Japan
> 


Hi Mark,


The additional code covers several things:

1) if the user "pastes" data, you don't get a keydown
-- so you need a special construction to handle the
pasteKey (which, for additional fun, isn't sent when
the RunRev UI is running).

2) if you want to enable the user to type a decimal
number, you have to keep track of how many times he
typed a period -- so you have to keep an eye on
selections, and check if the new data after the
keyDown would still be a number.

3) if the data must be displayed in a format with
thousand separators or a comma instead of a point, you
need functions to convert back and forth between
display and calculation format.


On another note, I also checked my theory on using the
"insert script into front" construct; and the results
are very good.

- In the script mentioned above, replace 'me' with
'the target' or 'the text of the target' where needed.

- Put that script in a field "NumericInputOnly" in a
library stack named "myScriptLibrary".

- Change the code of any field you want to only accept
numeric input to:

  on openField
    insert script of field "NumericInputOnly" of \
      stack "myScriptLibrary" into front
  end openField
  on closeField
    remove script of field "NumericInputOnly" of \
      stack "myScriptLibrary" from front
  end closeField

- Incidentally, you could also have a backScript
somewhere that checks a fields 'uFieldFormat' custom
property and does the above transparently:

  on openField
    put the uFieldFormat of the target into \
      tFieldFormat
    switch tFieldFormat
    case "numeric"
      insert script of field "NumericInputOnly" of \
        stack "myScriptLibrary" into front
      break
    case "date"
      insert script of field "DateInputOnly" of \
        stack "myScriptLibrary" into front
      break
    -- insert other types of input here...
    default
      break
    end switch
    pass openField
  end openField
  on closeField
    put the uFieldFormat of the target into \
      tFieldFormat
    switch tFieldFormat
    case "numeric"
      remove script of field "NumericInputOnly" of \
        stack "myScriptLibrary" from front
      break
    case "date"
      remove script of field "DateInputOnly" of \
        stack "myScriptLibrary" from front
      break
    -- insert other types of input here...
    default
      break
    end switch
    pass closeField
  end closeField


As I promised before, I will wrap all this in a
template fields stack when I find the time.

Hope this cleared a few things up,

Jan Schenkel.


=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 10 10:03:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Oct 10 10:03:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <fc.004c4d190f31316f004c4d190f2a32dc.f3132f1@umit.maine.edu>
Message-ID: <20021010145705.88050.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Timothy Hart <Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu> wrote:
> Sorry to keep bugging about this but I just don't
> have it yet.  I do have the documentation even in
> print form.  I can't even get rev to write to a test
> file.  I guess that would work.  What I guess I
> would really like to do is have other stacks
> linked to my stand alone that would be able to be
> saved.  I am not sure how to do this though.  Any
> help would be appreciated.  Thank.
> 
> -Tim
> 

Hi Tim,

When you build a stand-alone, you decide which stacks
are bundled into the application, and which remain
outside of the bundle (usually inside that 'data'
directory proposed by the Distribution Builder).

From kevin at runrev.com  Thu Oct 10 10:03:20 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Thu Oct 10 10:03:20 2002
Subject: New User questions
In-Reply-To: <5F9BFFF4-DBAE-11D6-890D-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <B9CB504F.B776%kevin@runrev.com>

On 9/10/02 6:41 pm, Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com> wrote:

> Simon, I'm running Revolution on the same OS X 10.2.1. When you startup
> Revolution, change View | Look and Feel to "Mac OS Emulated". AFAIK you
> have to do this every time you restart. There are some issues between
> Revolution and the OS X appearance manager, and that's the workaround.
> I think you fill find the Revolution IDE to be quite solid once you do
> that.

Folks, this is a known issue and we are working on it.  Sorry for the
inconvenience.  It only occurs during development on OS 10.2.  The
workaround is to set the look and feel to emulated for the moment.  It is a
bug in the OS rather than in Revolution, and we're going to come out with a
workaround for it in the next version, which is due to ship next month.

Kind regards,

Kevin 

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu  Thu Oct 10 10:18:01 2002
From: Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu (Timothy Hart)
Date: Thu Oct 10 10:18:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <fc.004c4d190f31316f004c4d190f2a32dc.f3132f1@umit.maine.edu>
References: <51680C72-DC33-11D6-8E4B-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
 <fc.004c4d190f31316f004c4d190f2a32dc.f3132f1@umit.maine.edu>
Message-ID: <fc.004c4d190f315f70004c4d190f2a32dc.f3160fe@umit.maine.edu>

use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes:
>Sorry to keep bugging about this but I just don't have it yet.  I do have the documentation even in print form.  I can't even get rev to write to a test file.  I guess that would work.  What I guess I would really like to do is have other stacks
>linked to my stand alone that would be able to be saved.  I am not sure how to do this though.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thank.
>
>-Tim
Sorry again.  I figured out how to save my stack as a refereced in standalone.  I am still wondering how to write to a text file.

-Tim









From sales at superiorshop.com  Thu Oct 10 10:44:01 2002
From: sales at superiorshop.com (SuperiorShop)
Date: Thu Oct 10 10:44:01 2002
Subject: Wouldn't a forum be a far better idea?
References: <B9CA8100.1DFA5%ambassador@fourthworld.com>           <20021010091247.69212.qmail@www.boxfrog.com> <20021010093810.10015.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <004101c27055$f256c8a0$d86600d8@s1>

There is a newbie forum here  :-)

http://www.mailping.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi






From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 10 11:06:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct 10 11:06:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
References: <51680C72-DC33-11D6-8E4B-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au> <fc.004c4d190f31316f004c4d190f2a32dc.f3132f1@umit.maine.edu> <fc.004c4d190f315f70004c4d190f2a32dc.f3160fe@umit.maine.edu>
Message-ID: <000301c27075$7b6ef8f0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Tim,

To write data to a text file is a simple as taking the data you want to
write (like the contents of a variable or field) and using this syntax:

  put <dataToWrite> into url ("file:" & <pathToFile>)

And to read the data, use this syntax:

  put url ("file:" & <pathToFile>) into <dataFromFile>)

So for example, if I wanted to read data from the file
"Enterprise:MyFolder:MyData.dat" on my OS X system, I would say:

  put url ("file:/Enterprise/MyFolder/MyData.dat") into myData

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Hart" <Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Saving stuff in a standalone


> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes:
> >Sorry to keep bugging about this but I just don't have it yet.  I do have
the documentation even in print form.  I can't even get rev to write to a
test file.  I guess that would work.  What I guess I would really like to do
is have other stacks
> >linked to my stand alone that would be able to be saved.  I am not sure
how to do this though.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thank.
> >
> >-Tim
> Sorry again.  I figured out how to save my stack as a refereced in
standalone.  I am still wondering how to write to a text file.
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Oct 10 11:12:02 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Oct 10 11:12:02 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <v03130314b9cad05c0be2@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <30B76CEA-DC6A-11D6-B17B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Thursday, October 10, 2002, at 12:38 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> Um... but it does render HTML, via the htmlText property. Not all of the
> HTML 4.0 spec, certainly, but it renders basic inline styling, images, and
> links. That's not enough for all purposes but it seems to me it is enough
> to say that Rev "renders HTML on its own".

That's better than what I thought.  I thought images and links required 
some special coding.

Even so, the htmlText does not even handle basic whitespace rules.  (The 
way I remember them.)  This means even rendering the most simple of HTML 
requires some processing.  When Revolution can do that, I might concede 
that it can "render basic HTML".

Until then, the better name for htmlText is styledText.

(I don't understand the motivation for the current whitespace handling.  It 
might be so "get" returns what you "put", but I am missing the value of 
that.)

Dar Scott



From kevin at runrev.com  Thu Oct 10 11:40:01 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Thu Oct 10 11:40:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CB5B38.CD4A%heather@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9CB6ACC.B7AA%kevin@runrev.com>

Hi,

There has recently been a discussion about Rev vs. RB on both the Rev and
the RB mailing lists.  Geoff Perlman posted this on the RB mailing list,
raising some good points which I thought I should reply to.  But I'd rather
not fan the flames of a large off topic conversation on the RB list, and I
know that anyone seriously considering Revolution vs. RB is likely to be on
this list, so it seems better to reply here.  (This discussion is officially
getting "off topic" now, so lets try to keep further replies reasonably
brief.)

Recently, Geoff Perlman wrote:

> I'm sure I'm not the "real-world developer" type that you posed the question
> to but I'll give you some things to consider:
> 
> I would look closely at the quality of the app each can produce. Is the
> interface a truly native interface or does it just try to look native?

The current version of Revolution isn't perfect, in particular the
development environment has not yet had enough work done on OS X, but the
apps you *produce* are very close.  In the next version, we've made
improvements in most of the handful of areas we are still lagging here.

> How big are the applications it builds?

To my knowledge, Revolution applications are either the same size or smaller
than the ones produced by RB.

> In other words, can you look at the app you build with it and tell the
> difference between it and other commercial software products created with
> other tools? This is important because the UI is what makes the first
> impression on your customers.

You can deliver professional applications looking any way you like in
Revolution.

> How rich is the framework provided? The vendor can only supply so much
> functionality. After that, you're going to want a rich set of third-party
> plug-ins to choose from. Which environment provides this?

Our built in functionality is very rich and capable.  Revolution is a little
behind in the 3rd party support area, but rapidly catching up.  The reason
for this is simply that we've only been shipping a year, whereas RB has been
shipping for several years.  The number of 3rd party tools and developers
for Rev is growing daily.

> How reusable are the skills you are going to learn? For example, REALbasic
> uses a syntax that is very similar to Visual Basic and Java. It's even
> somewhat similar to C++. So if you learn another language in the future, how
> will the language you are learning now help you?

Both Rev and RB are proprietary languages.  And yet both are also
programming languages, which teach you how to think like a programmer.  So
you can switch to other tools from either, but neither are going to come top
for this.  If transferable skills is your no. 1 priority, why not simply use
Java, VB or C++ to begin with?

If you're going to have a *proprietary* language, in this case either Rev or
RB, the better question to ask is: which is the more productive language?
RB is more like the lower level languages.   Revolution is easier to think
in, and easier to write.  Being English like it takes fewer lines of code,
and each one is very readable.  It makes a big difference, every day you
develop.  When it comes to maintenance, Rev is about as far away from a
"write only" language as you can get.  That code you wrote six months ago,
is English-like - some of our developers have called it "virtually self
commenting".  You can develop and debug that code on all the target
platforms too.

> What resources are available to help you learn? Magazines, Mailing lists,
> tutorials, enthusiastic customer sites? A good way to check this is a search
> on Google.com. What books are available? The availability of books often is
> a good indicator of the success of the product. How well is the product
> recognized by the community?

We have a truly great mailing list here - which is very active.  The number
of 3rd party sites seems to grow all the time.  There is at least one book
in development.  Truly excellent for a product that has only been around for
a year.  That this stuff isn't available on day one is all just par for the
course, and buying into Revolution isn't buying into a dead end: all of this
stuff is arriving rapidly.

> How long has the company been around and do they have a good track record
> for delivering updates? This is important because you are going to invest a
> lot of time in the product you choose and if the company is not dependable
> (either because of the way their manage releases or they go out of business)
> that's going to have a big impact on you.

That?s certainly very important.  Our company has been around for six years
(though we haven't been in this market for that period of time).  But we're
certainly a company with a well established track record.  The next big
release of Revolution is happening next month, and will be feature packed.
Look forward to unicode, a report generator, XML, an improved user
interface, macho compilation, and a whole lot more.  Then it should just be
a few months until the next major release, with equally exciting new
features.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Oct 10 11:52:01 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE)
Date: Thu Oct 10 11:52:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <000301c27075$7b6ef8f0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <51680C72-DC33-11D6-8E4B-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
 <fc.004c4d190f31316f004c4d190f2a32dc.f3132f1@umit.maine.edu>
 <fc.004c4d190f315f70004c4d190f2a32dc.f3160fe@umit.maine.edu>
 <000301c27075$7b6ef8f0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <p05100300b9cb5df2f00d@[10.0.1.202]>

>Tim,
>
>To write data to a text file is a simple as taking the data you want to
>write (like the contents of a variable or field) and using this syntax:
>
>   put <dataToWrite> into url ("file:" & <pathToFile>)
>
>And to read the data, use this syntax:
>
>   put url ("file:" & <pathToFile>) into <dataFromFile>)
>
>So for example, if I wanted to read data from the file
>"Enterprise:MyFolder:MyData.dat" on my OS X system, I would say:
>
>   put url ("file:/Enterprise/MyFolder/MyData.dat") into myData
>
>Hope this helps,
>


Hi Tim

I'm not a pro of the programmation. So to make the things easy, I use 
text files as database with different special chars to delimitate the 
records.
I've buld a large database on this way. It works very fast without 
any other database engine (as SQL, Valentina...).
If you plan to make something very professionnal, y?ou should have a 
look to such a system, but if you plan to make something for your own 
or freeware, you can surely use text files as Ken wirte here above.
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be


From RGould8 at aol.com  Thu Oct 10 12:36:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:36:01 2002
Subject: Can Rev tell when other apps are present?
Message-ID: <c1.28739b3d.2ad7130a@aol.com>

I'm trying to find a command in Revolution that will tell me if another 
application is presently running.   Is there such a command?   Something 
like:

on mouseUp
       put runningApplications() into x
       if x contains "Internet Explorer" then beep
end mouseUp
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From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Oct 10 14:01:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Oct 10 14:01:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CB6ACC.B7AA%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <B9CB6ACC.B7AA%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9cb72fb8da0@[216.229.107.25]>

>Geoff Perlman posted this on the RB mailing list,
>raising some good points which I thought I should reply to.  But I'd rather
>not fan the flames of a large off topic conversation on the RB list, and I
>know that anyone seriously considering Revolution vs. RB is likely to be on
>this list, so it seems better to reply here.

Kevin, et al:

You're too good to the folks on the RB list: if they want to spend 
their time concentrating on such pointless statements of opinion, fan 
the fires and let them waste their time while we get on with issues 
of substance.

But I will take this opportunity to address one issue where a devil's 
advocate is desperately needed:

>  I would look closely at the quality of the app each can produce. Is the
>  interface a truly native interface or does it just try to look native?

Am I the only person in the world who doesn't want my application to 
look exactly like every other application on the user's platform?  Do 
you all wish to allow Apple & Microsoft to dictate the only allowable 
metaphors for a basic application UI?

I see application design as a creative art, and I don't feel that art 
has matured to the point where exploration of non-institutionalized 
techniques should be looked on with such disfavor.  Are Apple & MS 
human interface guideline police any different than the art police 
who kept the impressionists out of the Paris exhibitions?

IMF(oolesh)O, tuning my UI for internal consistency and optimal 
handling of the task of the application are more important than 
designing it to look like a clone of every other app on the same 
platform.  If RB doesn't allow the freedom to hide the menu bar or 
make an app look totally "non-native", I would see that as stifling 
to my creativity and a BIG minus in comparison to RR.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Oct 10 14:12:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu Oct 10 14:12:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b9cb72fb8da0@[216.229.107.25]>
Message-ID: <B9CB47DD.153E0%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/10/02 2:53 PM, "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:

> IMF(oolesh)O, tuning my UI for internal consistency and optimal
> handling of the task of the application are more important than
> designing it to look like a clone of every other app on the same
> platform.  If RB doesn't allow the freedom to hide the menu bar or
> make an app look totally "non-native", I would see that as stifling
> to my creativity and a BIG minus in comparison to RR.

Right. Well, lessee... RB can certainly do those things. It can also make
applications that look and act like users expect them to. Not all
applications should have creative interfaces and hidden menu bars. Some of
them should look as plain vanilla as they can. Some of them should have an
extremely utilitarian look-and-feel. It cuts down greatly on how long it
takes a user to get familiar with an application. Who the heck wants a
"skinned" word processor?

I'm still using both tools (RB and Rev) I wish I could just use one at my
company, but they both still hold capabilities the other doesn't.

And for what it's worth, the RB list treated the discussion with at least
equal maturity and respect as this one did. Especially the principals -
Geoff from RB and Kevin from RunRev were both very cordial and gracious
regarding the other's product (while obviously preferring their own.) Well
done gentlemen.
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From ro.nagey at verizon.net  Thu Oct 10 14:19:01 2002
From: ro.nagey at verizon.net (Ro Nagey)
Date: Thu Oct 10 14:19:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b9cb72fb8da0@[216.229.107.25]>
Message-ID: <MBBBJAMDBNCNFLMBDDODKEPCCMAA.ro.nagey@verizon.net>

I, for one, couldn't agree more. IMFO, there has been a near-total lack of
open-ended interface design. Everyone seems, quite literally, to live
'inside the box' or, more precisely, 'inside the screenrect'.

There have been brief examples of tools that allow you to create circular
or, even, free-form stacks...but I haven't seen anything recently. We, the
creators, seem trapped by Windows/Mac boundaries when we should be designing
the new and the different.

Perhaps we should have a contest for the most "un-Windows, un-Mac" app. I
would love to see what our more creative minds could come up with...which,
in turn, might point towards improvements in our tools.

Ro Nagey
Royal Software, Inc.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Rob Cozens
> I see application design as a creative art, and I don't feel that art
> has matured to the point where exploration of non-institutionalized
> techniques should be looked on with such disfavor.  Are Apple & MS
> human interface guideline police any different than the art police
> who kept the impressionists out of the Paris exhibitions?
>
> IMF(oolesh)O, tuning my UI for internal consistency and optimal
> handling of the task of the application are more important than
> designing it to look like a clone of every other app on the same
> platform.  If RB doesn't allow the freedom to hide the menu bar or
> make an app look totally "non-native", I would see that as stifling
> to my creativity and a BIG minus in comparison to RR.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 10 14:43:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Oct 10 14:43:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CB47DD.153E0%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <B9CB24FF.1E01F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:

> On 10/10/02 2:53 PM, "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:
> 
>> IMF(oolesh)O, tuning my UI for internal consistency and optimal
>> handling of the task of the application are more important than
>> designing it to look like a clone of every other app on the same
>> platform.  If RB doesn't allow the freedom to hide the menu bar or
>> make an app look totally "non-native", I would see that as stifling
>> to my creativity and a BIG minus in comparison to RR.
> 
> Right. Well, lessee... RB can certainly do those things. It can also make
> applications that look and act like users expect them to.

Asde from throbbing default buttons and dialog sheets on OS X (neither of
which have ever been mentioned by my customers), what specific things might
users expect that can't be supported in Rev?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Oct 10 15:13:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu Oct 10 15:13:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CB24FF.1E01F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B9CB561E.153F9%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/10/02 3:37 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

>> Right. Well, lessee... RB can certainly do those things. It can also make
>> applications that look and act like users expect them to.
> 
> Asde from throbbing default buttons and dialog sheets on OS X (neither of
> which have ever been mentioned by my customers), what specific things might
> users expect that can't be supported in Rev?

Richard, I am a big fan of Rev, and have attempted be be very fair on both
lists. In most cases, I prefer Rev over RB. But the bottom line is - on OSX
(or for that matter any OS supported by RB) RB applications look and feel
more "native" than Rev apps do. In virtually every way. Rev feels "pseudo
native." Now, this does not always get in the way, but at times it does.
Sometimes throbbing default buttons and dialog sheets really do matter. The
shareware market for instance is particularly aware of these things.

There are a vast number of other things that can't currently be supported in
Rev. I've been with Rev since one of the early betas, and have very high
hopes for it, but RB has some advantages which it will take a while to catch
up with. Notably the 3rd party plugin support - something which can not be
under-played.

I'm trying not to get too defensive, since I have always been a Rev
supporter - but to assume that one must choose one or the other tool... I
for one can't do that right now. Until 2.0 comes out, and we start to see
some serious plugins, not little stack based stuff, but real plugins like
video capture, OpenGL 3D, true animation with collision detection, and more,
I think that Rev can't yet be the "one environment does it all" tool.

I love Rev too, but not to the exclusion of other tools.

Best,
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 10 15:18:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct 10 15:18:01 2002
Subject: Can Rev tell when other apps are present?
References: <c1.28739b3d.2ad7130a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001501c27098$64b1d0b0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

You can get the list of applications on Windows by using Tuviah Snyder's
External DLL, and on Mac you can use appleScript. Here's the link to the tip
on my site about that:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_ascr007

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: <RGould8 at aol.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 12:29 PM
Subject: Can Rev tell when other apps are present?


> I'm trying to find a command in Revolution that will tell me if another
> application is presently running.   Is there such a command?   Something
> like:
>
> on mouseUp
>        put runningApplications() into x
>        if x contains "Internet Explorer" then beep
> end mouseUp
>



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Thu Oct 10 15:20:01 2002
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu Oct 10 15:20:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b9cb72fb8da0@[216.229.107.25]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0210101311070.12615-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Rob,

For me, (and recall I'm not a professional developer), there is a
difference between apps that all look identical (which is what everything
done in VB tends to be) and apps which merely leverage a
previously-learned UI, consistent adherence to which is often touted as a
learning advantage.

Cheers,

Judy

On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Am I the only person in the world who doesn't want my application to
> look exactly like every other application on the user's platform?  Do
> you all wish to allow Apple & Microsoft to dictate the only allowable
> metaphors for a basic application UI?



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 10 15:28:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Oct 10 15:28:00 2002
Subject: Can Rev tell when other apps are present?
In-Reply-To: <001501c27098$64b1d0b0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <20021010202154.27409.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
> You can get the list of applications on Windows by
> using Tuviah Snyder's
> External DLL, and on Mac you can use appleScript.
> Here's the link to the tip
> on my site about that:
> 
>
http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_ascr007
> 
> Ken Ray

Just thought I'd add that for Un*x environments you
can always 
  get shell("ps")
and parse through the result.

Jan Schenkel.


=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Oct 10 15:31:00 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Oct 10 15:31:00 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CB24FF.1E01F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B9CB3053.4546%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Richard Gaskin"  wrote:

>> Right. Well, lessee... RB can certainly do those things. It can also make
>> applications that look and act like users expect them to.
> 
> Asde from throbbing default buttons and dialog sheets on OS X (neither of
> which have ever been mentioned by my customers), what specific things might
> users expect that can't be supported in Rev?

What are those slide-out panels called, like in the mail app?  Drawers?
Again, probably not expected...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From RGould8 at aol.com  Thu Oct 10 15:46:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 15:46:01 2002
Subject: Anyone know way to retrieve router info from Network pane in OS X?
Message-ID: <11b.180bb7da.2ad73fa9@aol.com>

Does anyone know if it's possible, in Mac OS X to do the following with 
Revolution?

1)   Set the user's network configuration to "Using DHCP"
2)   Pull in the "Router:" data, example "10.2.185.254" into a variable.

I was originally thinking that Applescript might be able to do this, but I 
don't see a dictionary for the "Network" control pane in OS X.

Is there a Unix shell command I can launch from Revolution that I could 
somehow pipe the results of a request for router data back to a Revolution 
variable?

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From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Oct 10 16:00:01 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Oct 10 16:00:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <MBBBJAMDBNCNFLMBDDODKEPCCMAA.ro.nagey@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <B9CB371A.454F%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Ro Nagey"  wrote:

> There have been brief examples of tools that allow you to create circular
> or, even, free-form stacks...but I haven't seen anything recently. We, the
> creators, seem trapped by Windows/Mac boundaries when we should be designing
> the new and the different.

Fully.

At the risk of repeating myself, folks might want to take a look at the
Plexata game link at the bottom of this page:

  http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/

True, this is part of a game (as opposed to a "serious" app) done a year
ago, but bits and pieces of what was done here are making their way into
other projects we're doing.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 10 16:13:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Oct 10 16:13:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CB561E.153F9%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <B9CB3A3A.1E03D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:

>> Aside from throbbing default buttons and dialog sheets on OS X (neither of
>> which have ever been mentioned by my customers), what specific things might
>> users expect that can't be supported in Rev?
> 
> Richard, I am a big fan of Rev, and have attempted be be very fair on both
> lists. In most cases, I prefer Rev over RB. But the bottom line is - on OSX
> (or for that matter any OS supported by RB) RB applications look and feel
> more "native" than Rev apps do. In virtually every way. Rev feels "pseudo
> native." Now, this does not always get in the way, but at times it does.
> Sometimes throbbing default buttons and dialog sheets really do matter.

Both of those are in the works.  Other issues can be addressed if they were
articulated.

> I'm trying not to get too defensive, since I have always been a Rev
> supporter - but to assume that one must choose one or the other tool... I
> for one can't do that right now.

Me neither.  But to provide useful advisement to the Rev team to help them
prioritize, we can get farther once we identify specific differences in
control appearance and behavior that are a concern.

To date, the list has included only two items (throbbing defaults and
sheets), but if there are others they should be worth listing.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu  Thu Oct 10 17:34:01 2002
From: Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu (Timothy Hart)
Date: Thu Oct 10 17:34:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <20021010145705.88050.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021010145705.88050.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fc.004c4d190f342906004c4d190f2a32dc.f342a6d@umit.maine.edu>

Thanks to every one for their help.

-Tim









From ro.nagey at verizon.net  Thu Oct 10 17:43:01 2002
From: ro.nagey at verizon.net (Ro Nagey)
Date: Thu Oct 10 17:43:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CB371A.454F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <MBBBJAMDBNCNFLMBDDODKEPECMAA.ro.nagey@verizon.net>

Cool game...but like the docs say - meaningless if you don't know the
rules...which are located where? ;)

Ro

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Scott Rossi
> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 10:55 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
>
>
> Recently, "Ro Nagey"  wrote:
>
> > There have been brief examples of tools that allow you to
> create circular
> > or, even, free-form stacks...but I haven't seen anything
> recently. We, the
> > creators, seem trapped by Windows/Mac boundaries when we should
> be designing
> > the new and the different.
>
> Fully.
>
> At the risk of repeating myself, folks might want to take a look at the
> Plexata game link at the bottom of this page:
>
>   http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/
>
> True, this is part of a game (as opposed to a "serious" app) done a year
> ago, but bits and pieces of what was done here are making their way into
> other projects we're doing.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Oct 10 18:18:01 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu Oct 10 18:18:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <MBBBJAMDBNCNFLMBDDODKEPECMAA.ro.nagey@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <B9CB576D.457C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Ro Nagey"  wrote:

> Cool game...but like the docs say - meaningless if you don't know the
> rules...which are located where?

There were no rules, only mysteries to solve.  :-)

The UI was intentionally exploratory -- no instructions.  Players were
supposed to interact with the software and figure out what to do as they
went along.  You can see below for a more detailed response, but to keep on
topic, the player, registration and progress/dialog windows are all custom
shapes without standard UI widgets.  We tried a slightly unusual approach of
making the play button on the player perform three different actions
depending on the context.  I think this was successful but we'd have to poll
the users to really see for sure...

At any rate, this example isn't that radical in terms of alternative UI
layout and functionality, but it's a small step. Another example of
something built with MC can be seen here:

http://www.avault.com/hardware/getreview.asp?review=logisr30&page=3

A fun little feedback element was the meter at the top of the window.  On
the opening (home) screen, the meter simulated the appearance of measuring
the audio level of the opening music.  In all subsequent screens (without
sound), the meter digits simply chased back and forth to indicate the
"operational" status of the program.  Again, while the overall functionality
wasn't radically different, it's worthwhile to note that developers can
build some fairly alternative UIs in Rev/MC.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



GAME DETAILS

Solving the Plexata puzzles required creative thinking on the part of the
players.  The challenge wasn't just solving each puzzle, but figuring out
*how* to interact with each puzzle's UI.  For example, the solution of the
first puzzle requires finding all the triangle shapes that can be formed out
of the buttons.  This led players to some obscured images of chromosomes.
Players then had to figure out that they needed to convert each letter of
the word "CHROMOSOME" into a base 4 number and enter this code into the
player digits to advance to the next level.  In level 2, the solution was an
image of an exploding sphere with a gamma symbol centered within the sphere:
the solution was "GAMMARAYBURST", which again had to be converted into base
4 numbers and entered into the player.  All the puzzles in the Plexata demo
are playable and solvable, they just don't link to each other, nor do they
register your progress on the server.



From dan at danshafer.com  Thu Oct 10 19:15:01 2002
From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu Oct 10 19:15:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
Message-ID: <a05200a24b9cbc5e4258a@[63.205.23.218]>

I differ slightly with you here, Jeanne. I think it is fine to say 
something like "Rev renders a sub-set of HTML on its own," but even 
the way it doesn't handle links (which is sooooo easy in Rev that 
it's obvious it could be "fixed" if there were a priority here) 
demonstrates that support is really, really weak.

Candidly, I'd like to see Rev tie up with someone like OmniWeb or 
iCab or Opera or someone, license a decent HTML rendering engine, 
slam it in the product (or offer it as a plug-in add-on) and let me 
get down to building some REAL Web apps without my having to muck 
with the HTML at all.

But that's just me.

:-)

At 2:30 AM -0400 10/10/02, Jeanne DeVoto wrote:
>Um... but it does render HTML, via the htmlText property. Not all of the
>HTML 4.0 spec, certainly, but it renders basic inline styling, images, and
>links. That's not enough for all purposes but it seems to me it is enough
>to say that Rev "renders HTML on its own".

-- 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
How smart do you work? What's your TQ (Time Quotient)?
Find out free in 2 minutes at http://www.thinktq.com/Results2002
Free one-year training course in your email box - $120 value
Get an insightful book written and published EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOU


From ro.nagey at verizon.net  Thu Oct 10 19:19:01 2002
From: ro.nagey at verizon.net (Ro Nagey)
Date: Thu Oct 10 19:19:01 2002
Subject: Novel interfaces
In-Reply-To: <B9CB576D.457C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <MBBBJAMDBNCNFLMBDDODEEPHCMAA.ro.nagey@verizon.net>

Rumor has it that Jean-Louis Gasse once gave a demo on a Mac that someone
had futzed with...

He'd click on a menu bar, the box would appear, then crash to the bottom of
the screen. Once there, the menu bar worked fine. Not practical but a great
practical joke ;)

Ro Nagey
Royal Software, Inc.



From matt.denton at limelight.com.au  Thu Oct 10 20:02:01 2002
From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton)
Date: Thu Oct 10 20:02:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <200210102144.RAA29447@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <27E73DCA-DCB4-11D6-BDFF-000393924880@limelight.com.au>

Dear Richard

On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 07:44  AM, Richard Gaskin 
<ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> Me neither.  But to provide useful advisement to the Rev team to help 
> them
> prioritize, we can get farther once we identify specific differences in
> control appearance and behavior that are a concern.
>
> To date, the list has included only two items (throbbing defaults and
> sheets), but if there are others they should be worth listing.

Although I'm definitely not a big RB developer, I would suggest that 
some of the differences could be articulated as thus:

01 A style for OSX Look: 22 pixel high buttons, Lucinda Grande font, 
blah blah; one for Windows XP; One for Windows <XP (2K etc); one for 
OS9. This relates to background colours, default sizes and fonts.  I 
for one always build new layouts for each environment and don't trust 
the Rev Profile Manager to do the job for me (although it is a 
fantastic concept).

02 Throbbing buttons;

03 Sheets;

04 True Progress Bars: indeterminate progress (ie web actions that 
don't have a duration); chasing arrows;

05 For OSX: Image Well holder; placecard holder (and the others, I 
forget what they are called); relevance indicator (grey vertical lines);

06 Button disclosure Tool (sort of like the Option menu without the 
text, currently in Rev this doesn't mimic without all sorts of pixel 
probs in Mac);


Probably the biggest gripe is that windows apps look terrible without a 
lot of adjustment to 'conform' to a standard look.  I am forever trying 
to get Windows apps to 'look right' and often it is easier to create my 
own interface.  And I agree: the Shareware market is sensitive to 
non-conforming apps: it is a mark of how 'stable' or 'professional' the 
application is.  The more it looks like a real app, the more success it 
has (unless it needs to do something very special and out of the 
standard UI box).

SOME of the above can be mimicked, I've done so.  However others really 
need the helping hand from Rev team.  All too much focus seems to go on 
Sheets and Throbbing buttons, what about getting the basics right?

As I haven't seen the RB list, I'm not sure what was discussed there 
about Rev vs RB, this may be repeating what was there.

Also note that a good example (at least on OSX and OS9) of all the UI 
elements needed is the new release SuperCard 4.0.  Although SC lacks 
many of the lovely functions and commands in Rev, they do attack the 
interface with great elegance and sophistication -- this gives you the 
option to either use standard GUI or 'design your own'.  Best of both 
worlds (as quoted on the List earlier -- make your own GUI or use 
standard), but sadly only in one world -- Mac.

I LOVE Rev but must agree: I spend a lot of time trying to mimic a true 
app.  I have built up my own templates but they only get me part of the 
way.

Cheers,

M@
Matt Denton



From matt.denton at limelight.com.au  Thu Oct 10 20:27:01 2002
From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton)
Date: Thu Oct 10 20:27:01 2002
Subject: Making a small Multimedia CD-ROM in Rev
In-Reply-To: <200210101603.MAA20814@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B6FF4160-DCB7-11D6-BDFF-000393924880@limelight.com.au>

Hello.

I'm in the throws of deciding on building a small CD-ROM multimedia app 
in Rev.  I can't decide if I should go back to Director or iShell (only 
for this project, don't worry!), or use Rev.  My love for Rev urges me 
to go down that path, my experience tells me to tread carefully.

I'm really happy with what Rev can do for me in a controlled (by the 
features I put in) Shareware environment but as yet I haven't build a 
'multimedia' CD-ROM in Rev and I'm worried about the following:

01 How well does Rev play off CD?  Are there seek issues or is it 
pretty fast loading?  (We will test this early next week)
02 How compatible is Rev using QTime across the expanding Windows 
family?  Are there abnormalities and playback issues on some PC 
configurations /Windows boxes?
03 How well does it cope in small RAM footprints?  Multimedia is a 
glutton, should I be worried with Rev's RAM load on older machines?
04 How well does RevGoURL work across all computers (ie in Mac land, is 
AppleScript the most backward compatible way to launch an URL?)

I'm hoping someone can help, I really don't want to get 80% in and find 
that there are some major issues just prior to pressing.  I don't want 
to go back to Director, I really don't, it is just that I don't know 
what issues could crop up and I haven't tested the waters.

As this is a small project I'm hoping that we do try Rev, it will be 
the multimedia litmus test for us.  I'm happy and confident with Rev 
when we are not talking about CD-ROM delivery or Multimedia 
functionality on older machines, can anyone help who has experience 
with this?

Many thanks!

M@
Matt Denton



From RGould8 at aol.com  Thu Oct 10 20:28:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 20:28:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
Message-ID: <105.1d34ed55.2ad7818d@aol.com>


In a message dated 10/10/02 8:10:46 PM, dan at danshafer.com writes:


> Candidly, I'd like to see Rev tie up with someone like OmniWeb or
> iCab or Opera or someone, license a decent HTML rendering engine,
> slam it in the product (or offer it as a plug-in add-on) and let me
> get down to building some REAL Web apps without my having to muck
> with the HTML at all.
> 
> But that's just me.
> 

I'd pay another $300 for just that feature alone - - - would OmiWeb or iCab 
or Opera be able to work cross-platform, so I could create a Revolution app 
with an embedded browser - - - authoring it once, and building it for both 
Mac and Windows?
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From kkaufman at snet.net  Thu Oct 10 20:35:00 2002
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Thu Oct 10 20:35:00 2002
Subject: "Conforming" UI (was:REALbasic vs. Revolution)
Message-ID: <F9D10BC6-DCB8-11D6-817E-00039348A1E6@snet.net>

Matt Denton wrote:
"...the Shareware market is sensitive to non-conforming apps: it is a 
mark of how 'stable' or 'professional' the application is...."

I recently released two applications for Mac OS 9, X, and Windows.  
More because of severe time restrictions than anything else, I chose 
not to use use menus.  Of all the feedback I received for both 
applications, only one person (a Mac OS X user) complained or even 
mentioned the lack of menus (I told him to quit the app by closing its 
window, which answer seemed to satisfy him).
Certain users I guess might be put off by "non-standard" application 
behavior, but unless there are many other applications available which 
provide exactly the same function, they are generally happy just to 
"get the job done" with the tools provided.

-Kurt



From smilingeyes at mac.com  Thu Oct 10 20:48:01 2002
From: smilingeyes at mac.com (Ray Bennett)
Date: Thu Oct 10 20:48:01 2002
Subject: "Conforming" UI (was:REALbasic vs. Revolution)
References: <F9D10BC6-DCB8-11D6-817E-00039348A1E6@snet.net>
Message-ID: <3DA62C76.601@mac.com>

Kurt - can you give us an idea of what sort of users you had?  Were they 
random public folks or folks from a specific walk of life (such as 
engineers, math teachers, lawyers, accountants)?  Just curious because 
we're in the middle of several UI considerations for a cross-platform 
app that will be going to a somewhat random "suzy/joe public"
Thanks
~Ray

Kurt Kaufman wrote:

> Matt Denton wrote:
> "...the Shareware market is sensitive to non-conforming apps: it is a 
> mark of how 'stable' or 'professional' the application is...."
>
> I recently released two applications for Mac OS 9, X, and Windows.  
> More because of severe time restrictions than anything else, I chose 
> not to use use menus.  Of all the feedback I received for both 
> applications, only one person (a Mac OS X user) complained or even 
> mentioned the lack of menus (I told him to quit the app by closing its 
> window, which answer seemed to satisfy him).
> Certain users I guess might be put off by "non-standard" application 
> behavior, but unless there are many other applications available which 
> provide exactly the same function, they are generally happy just to 
> "get the job done" with the tools provided.
>
> -Kurt
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From webmaster at listology.com  Thu Oct 10 20:56:00 2002
From: webmaster at listology.com (Jim Biancolo)
Date: Thu Oct 10 20:56:00 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <105.1d34ed55.2ad7818d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021010214237.033e8620@mail.berkshire.net>

I agree that an embedded rendering engine would be a killer feature.  I 
have no experience with such integration work, but Gecko (Mozilla's 
rendering engine) might be a good choice for this:

    http://www.mozilla.org/newlayout/

There's a "Gecko Embedding Overview" here:

    http://www.mozilla.org/projects/embedding/embedoverview/EmbeddingBasics.html

I *think* the licensing might allow for some forms of commercial 
distribution as well, but don't take my word for it; I only have a vague 
recollection or reading some legalese that I really didn't understand.  :-)

Jim

At 09:21 PM 10/10/2002 -0400, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:
>I'd pay another $300 for just that feature alone - - - would OmiWeb or 
>iCab or Opera be able to work cross-platform, so I could create a 
>Revolution app with an embedded browser - - - authoring it once, and 
>building it for both Mac and Windows?



From curry at kagi.com  Thu Oct 10 21:24:01 2002
From: curry at kagi.com (curry)
Date: Thu Oct 10 21:24:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <200210102144.RAA29424@www.runrev.com>
References: <200210102144.RAA29424@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00b9cbd664cdb7@[68.34.213.220]>

The question of RB vs. Rev is interesting and is getting more so, not 
less. The main reason I'm still interested in RB is its potential for 
3D. That's the only place where Rev doesn't offer anything.

The main difference for me is that I *enjoy* working in Rev. I'm not 
sure if that point has been brought up as much! If I want to make 
something creative, I feel that Rev helps me do that because it's 
enjoyable to use. I like the scripting syntax most of all, and there 
are also some things about the developing environment that I like to 
use better.

I feel that scripting syntax is not only convenient to learn, but 
it's *superior* to other programming syntax. Readability is not just 
nice, it's also practical. (And if more of the world's code was 
written with syntax more similar to the English-like scripting syntax 
we find in HyperTalk and Transcript, we'd have a better world.) I 
like BASIC too, but the way MS took BASIC in adapting to GUI just 
didn't make it very readable. A more readable syntax would be 
possible for supporting those elements, and a few BASICs out there 
have been a bit more creative, but as it is, scripting is much better 
if you want something English-like;  which of course was what BASIC 
set out to do originally, right?.

Here's another thing for me: I don't like having to declare every 
single variable. I was actually flamed by many users on the RB list 
when I suggested that RB allow writing without explicit 
variables--which I think VB has an option for, and some people had 
let that trip them up with a hard-to-find problem until they finally 
thought of turning on explicit variables. Sounds like not everything 
is right for everyone and it's their problem, but these users were 
scared out of their pants to allow this capability--even though they 
could just not use the option themselves, they couldn't stand the 
thought of someone else doing it. That kind of mindset just didn't 
impress me, especially since RB seemed to accept it readily.

Then there's the runtime development environment. You always have to 
run and quit with RB, and I like the way you can "tinker" in Rev, and 
really run  it outside the environment when you want. But here's a 
suggestion: Rev could have an easier way to run, maybe a menu item, 
that would immediately run the project alone with all the necessary 
resources and libraries but without the development scripts getting 
in the way. (I know about the option to hide the development 
environment, but the dev scripts are still there and get in the way 
sometimes, and if you run the project by itself, it won't have the 
icons and libraries it needs unless you use the distribution 
manager.) That would be a really strong feature, and I urge Rev to 
consider it, whether just beefing up that hide-environment option, or 
with a new option.

So I have many reasons to like Rev and will do everything in Rev that 
is supported. But RB is also a very good tool and with a Windows dev 
environment coming out, that's going to make it a lot more realistic 
for cross-platform development.

One thing about the dev environment in Rev is that for a multimedia 
tool, it's still not quite convenient enough to get media in and out. 
I would really like to be able to copy and paste images as well as 
you can in  other programs. Yes, you can import, but no, it's not 
always convenient. I would like to paste in from the Mac clipboard 
and have them stored in a Rev-acceptable cross-platform format. The 
paint tools could also use a little work. I think Rev also needs to 
update sound and speech capabilities--multiple sounds, full support 
on all relevant platforms for speaking and hopefully listening, etc. 
I can understand if Rev doesn't tackle 3D, but on the other hand it 
would be nice; however, that's optional since it's a difference 
field, whereas the sound, speech, and extra convenience in media 
handling is a clear part of the kind of things Rev is already used 
for and intended for, so it's not optional and I think it should not 
be put off. I want to write once and have great sound and speech 
effects on Mac and Windows. In some cases such as the speech support 
and lack of ability to tell when sound is finished, as well as XP 
support (?) lack of basic features can mean the need to reluctantly 
consider another tool for some projects. (And believe me when I say 
reluctantly!) I think the coming support for throbbing and sheets 
will also be very welcome.

As for third party support, I think it depends on the size of the Rev 
community of users. If we can sell solutions to enough Rev users to 
make it profitable, some of us will make them. But if third-party 
solutions is a selling point for new users, it could be a catch-22, 
but I see more and more people here, so I think it's coming along 
well and like Kevin says, it's just been a year. I think if people 
see clearly, they will find that Rev is a great solution, even if 
both products are good and perhaps one or the other is not suitable 
for every job. But the fact of life is that too often, people don't 
see clearly! So I hope the Rev community continues to grow--I think 
more promotions and cross-grade offers could really help, because the 
more people we have using Rev, the more we'll ultimately be able to 
do with it. That's my suggestion to Rev--more promotions like the one 
last year.

Both Rev and RB are good products. But the ultimate factors for me 
are what I can do and how I can do it. I enjoy working with Rev a lot 
more, and I'm trusting that the few remaining areas that need more 
support will be supported.

--

Curry


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 10 21:25:00 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Oct 10 21:25:00 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021010214237.033e8620@mail.berkshire.net>
Message-ID: <B9CB8352.1E076%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jim Biancolo wrote:

> I agree that an embedded rendering engine would be a killer feature.

I'v gotten so accustmed to using the browser as a helper app that I think
I'm missing something:

What are the advantages of putting a browser inside on your app's window?
What sort of apps are you folks making?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From RGould8 at aol.com  Thu Oct 10 23:08:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 23:08:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
Message-ID: <59.22e48e01.2ad7a74e@aol.com>


In a message dated 10/10/02 10:20:32 PM, ambassador at fourthworld.com writes:


> What are the advantages of putting a browser inside on your app's window?
> What sort of apps are you folks making?
> 

Well, I can speak for the app that I'm trying to make - - - a DSL Router 
configuration tool.   Revolution presently launches IE in my app which takes 
the user to the ISP's registration server, and has them put in all their 
credit card data and so forth via a secure connection.   This goes on for a 
couple of pages.   Then on the last page of registration, they get a new 
username/password.   This username password then needs to get routed back to 
Revolution from IE and passed back to the DSL Router via HTTP Post through 
port 80.   I'm able to do all of this by kludging together Applescript calls 
and Revolution calls, however it would be MUCH cooler if I could have the 
browser embedded in Revolution, so then I could sniff for the html of the 
username password right from within Revolution instead of relying on 
Applescript to do all the legwork of capturing the html source of that last 
page and passing variable-data back to Revolution.   

The reason I can't do it presently in Revolution is because the html 
rendering isn't displaying properly with all the tables they have, and I'd 
need security with e-commerce send-form data.   If Revolution could have it's 
embedded browser that would work on both Mac and PC, then my registration app 
would be cross platform.   I also wouldn't have to do the checks for the 
presence of IE or installing of IE.   I'd gladly pay extra for this feature.  
 Macromedia Director can't do this presently either, but I know it's in high 
demand.   I'm happy with Revolution now, but I'd be even happier of it could 
embed a browser.
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From RGould8 at aol.com  Thu Oct 10 23:22:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 23:22:01 2002
Subject: Is there a launch default browser to URL command?
Message-ID: <53.1db89406.2ad7aa7f@aol.com>

Is there a launch default browser to URL command?   I tried

Launch "Internet Explorer", but that didn't work for me.   The Get URL 
command appears to just pull the html into containers.   I'm looking for a

open "Internet Explorer" with "http://www.apple.com"

type of command.   

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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 11 00:04:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri Oct 11 00:04:01 2002
Subject: Is there a launch default browser to URL command?
References: <53.1db89406.2ad7aa7f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <007d01c270e2$396c16a0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Check out 'revGoURL'... as in:

  revGoURL "http://www.apple.com"

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: <RGould8 at aol.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 11:15 PM
Subject: Is there a launch default browser to URL command?


> Is there a launch default browser to URL command?   I tried
>
> Launch "Internet Explorer", but that didn't work for me.   The Get URL
> command appears to just pull the html into containers.   I'm looking for a
>
> open "Internet Explorer" with "http://www.apple.com"
>
> type of command.
>
>



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 11 00:06:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri Oct 11 00:06:01 2002
Subject: Is there a launch default browser to URL command?
In-Reply-To: <53.1db89406.2ad7aa7f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021011045943.61386.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

--- RGould8 at aol.com wrote:
> Is there a launch default browser to URL command?  
> I tried
> 
> Launch "Internet Explorer", but that didn't work for
> me.   The Get URL 
> command appears to just pull the html into
> containers.   I'm looking for a
> 
> open "Internet Explorer" with "http://www.apple.com"
> 
> type of command.   
> 

Use the 'revGoURL' command. The Transcripot dictionary
has plenty of examples of what it can do.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.


=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 11 00:10:00 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Oct 11 00:10:00 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <59.22e48e01.2ad7a74e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B9CBA9E1.1E08F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 10/10/02 10:20:32 PM, ambassador at fourthworld.com writes:
> 
> 
> What are the advantages of putting a browser inside on your app's window?
> What sort of apps are you folks making?
> 
> 
> Well, I can speak for the app that I'm trying to make - - - a DSL Router
> configuration tool.   Revolution presently launches IE in my app which takes
> the user to the ISP's registration server, and has them put in all their
> credit card data and so forth via a secure connection.   This goes on for a
> couple of pages.   Then on the last page of registration, they get a new
> username/password.   This username password then needs to get routed back to
> Revolution from IE and passed back to the DSL Router via HTTP Post through
> port 80.   I'm able to do all of this by kludging together Applescript calls
> and Revolution calls, however it would be MUCH cooler if I could have the
> browser embedded in Revolution, so then I could sniff for the html of the
> username password right from within Revolution instead of relying on
> Applescript to do all the legwork of capturing the html source of that last
> page and passing variable-data back to Revolution.
> 
> The reason I can't do it presently in Revolution is because the html rendering
> isn't displaying properly with all the tables they have, and I'd need security
> with e-commerce send-form data.   If Revolution could have it's embedded
> browser that would work on both Mac and PC, then my registration app would be
> cross platform.   I also wouldn't have to do the checks for the presence of IE
> or installing of IE.   I'd gladly pay extra for this feature.   Macromedia
> Director can't do this presently either, but I know it's in high demand.   I'm
> happy with Revolution now, but I'd be even happier of it could embed a
> browser.

Sounds like the critical component is not HTML rendering as much as HTTPS --
did I understand that correctly?
 
-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 11 00:27:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri Oct 11 00:27:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <B9CBA9E1.1E08F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20021011052112.29578.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> RGould8 at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > In a message dated 10/10/02 10:20:32 PM,
> ambassador at fourthworld.com writes:
> > 
> > 
> > What are the advantages of putting a browser
> inside on your app's window?
> > What sort of apps are you folks making?
> > 
> > 
> > Well, I can speak for the app that I'm trying to
> make - - - a DSL Router
> > configuration tool. 
> > [snip]
> 
> Sounds like the critical component is not HTML
> rendering as much as HTTPS --
> did I understand that correctly?
>  
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin 

It might also help if those servers supported the SOAP
protocol, so you're not forced to make the user enter
data inside the browser, but could provide the forms
within your applicaion and send _that_ data over to
the server.
Through HTTPS, of course ; but at least you wouldbn't
need a browser environment.

Just my two euro-cents,

Jan Schenkel.


=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Oct 11 00:31:01 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri Oct 11 00:31:01 2002
Subject: Making a small Multimedia CD-ROM in Rev
In-Reply-To: <B6FF4160-DCB7-11D6-BDFF-000393924880@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <B9CBAF1C.7FC3%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Matt Denton wrote:

> 01 How well does Rev play off CD?  Are there seek issues or is it
> pretty fast loading?  (We will test this early next week)

"Well" is a relative term.  Performance is not specifically a function of
Rev, it's also a function of the complexity of your app the power of the
host system.  A low end graphics card and/or out of date video drivers can
affect performance on Windows.  Overall, I doubt there's any clear cut
answer for your question, but Rev is perfectly capable of loading quickly.


> 02 How compatible is Rev using QTime across the expanding Windows
> family?  Are there abnormalities and playback issues on some PC
> configurations /Windows boxes?

Some people have mentioned a bug with the controller (look in the archives
for this).  Another minor issue is that QT needs to "initialize" or
something the first time it's called, so you might want to run a short blank
movie  at startup to hide any initialization delay.  Other folks may have
more experience with QT performance.

One possible benefit for you is that Rev can play multimedia without QT, by
using whatever multimedia capability is present on the machine.  This is not
100% reliable (some users may have disabled their multimedia functions) and
control options are more limited, but it's a good backup option.


> 03 How well does it cope in small RAM footprints?  Multimedia is a
> glutton, should I be worried with Rev's RAM load on older machines?

At startup, Rev loads entire stacks into RAM.  If you're concerned about
systems with low memory, you might consider dividing your content across
several stacks and loading/purging each stack as needed.


> 04 How well does RevGoURL work across all computers (ie in Mac land, is
> AppleScript the most backward compatible way to launch an URL?)

Can't answer how RevGoURL works, but it should be pretty reliable.  On
pre-OSX systems, the default method for launching a URL was: send myURL to
program "Finder" with "GURLGURL".  Another "last resort" method for both
platforms is to write a simple HTML to the drive and launch it.


> I'm happy and confident with Rev
> when we are not talking about CD-ROM delivery or Multimedia
> functionality on older machines, can anyone help who has experience
> with this?

The only real problem I found in the past (this is also in the archives) is
with auto-starting RedBook audio but unless you're employing this media it's
probably not worth relating.  Suffice it to say, Rev is probably capable of
doing what you want; doing some tests is a good idea.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From jeanne at runrev.com  Fri Oct 11 01:51:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri Oct 11 01:51:01 2002
Subject: Printing
In-Reply-To: <B45F23BB-DBC6-11D6-8750-003065F93AC8@conceptualize.com>
Message-ID: <v03130303b9cc20254964@[10.0.1.2]>

At 1:35 PM -0700 10/9/2002, Jeff Morrison wrote:
>I'm looking at both REALbasic and Revolution and I'm pretty sure I've
>just discovered a huge problem with REALbasic, and I'm curious if
>Revolution suffers from the same issue.  Printing.  RB printing seems
>to be very, very, very tedious, requiring the user to define every
>element, style, position on page,etc., all via code.  How does
>Revolution handle printing?  Please tell me it's better.

All printing in Revolution is based, at bottom, on printing a card. So one
of the simplest methods of printing is to lay out a card the way you want
it, then print that (optionally populating fields and images first and so
forth) either using the print command or choosing Print Card from the File
menu. You can print a single card, or use the open printing and close
printing commands to print multiple cards as a batch print job.

For printing text, you can use revPrintText or revPrintField, which use
this method internally, but take care of the tedious details of creating
header and footer elements, paginating the text, and so on; all you have to
do is tell it what text you want printed.

The next version of Revolution will also include a new report printing
engine for easy layout and control of report printing.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Fri Oct 11 01:51:26 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri Oct 11 01:51:26 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <B9CA856F.7F7C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <v03130314b9cad05c0be2@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <v03130305b9cc227cd613@[10.0.1.2]>

At 1:16 AM -0700 10/10/2002, Scott Rossi wrote:
>Recently, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>>> I believe it would be in your best interest as the creators of the tools to
>>> reference Rev/MC's ability to display *HTML source* and not the rendered
>>> HTML pages that folks see in a Web browser.
>>
>> Um... but it does render HTML, via the htmlText property. Not all of the
>> HTML 4.0 spec, certainly, but it renders basic inline styling, images, and
>> links. That's not enough for all purposes but it seems to me it is enough
>> to say that Rev "renders HTML on its own".
>
>Well, one of the original questions was "is it just like embedding a browser
>on the card".  Sure, Rev/MC can display HTML formatted text, and can display
>images referenced from a URL, but this is a far cry from displaying a
>rendered page layout in which the aforementioned elements appear.

Fair enough. The HTML support is mostly for text styles, and anything
having to do with block elements isn't going to appear in a field. Still, I
think this is useful often enough that referencing only the ability to
display plain text (the HTML source) misses part of the picture. I think
it's a question of striking the correct balance in letting people know what
is and isn't supported.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Fri Oct 11 01:51:34 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri Oct 11 01:51:34 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <30B76CEA-DC6A-11D6-B17B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
References: <v03130314b9cad05c0be2@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <v03130306b9cc2322fd26@[10.0.1.2]>

At 9:06 AM -0700 10/10/2002, Dar Scott wrote:
[htmlText]
>(I don't understand the motivation for the current whitespace handling.  It
>might be so "get" returns what you "put", but I am missing the value of
>that.)

The main initial motivation for adding the htmlText property, as I
understand it, was to provide a method of storing and transporting styled
text. So it's important that "set the htmlText of field X to the htmlText
of field Y" make the text and styling of the two fields identical.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From n.thieberger at pgrad.unimelb.edu.au  Fri Oct 11 04:16:01 2002
From: n.thieberger at pgrad.unimelb.edu.au (Nicholas Thieberger)
Date: Fri Oct 11 04:16:01 2002
Subject: player language
In-Reply-To: <200210102144.RAA29447@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.10.10210110914080.10609-100000@cassius.its.unimelb.edu.au>

I am trying to figure out how to specify the languaage of a QT movie. QT
has two language specifications it seems, one is of the movie, and the
other is of the text track that accompanies it. In HC I could just say
"set the language of movie X to French" and it worked. But not so in RR.
Does anyone have any clues?

thankx

Nick




From cowhead at mac.com  Fri Oct 11 06:38:01 2002
From: cowhead at mac.com (mark mitchell)
Date: Fri Oct 11 06:38:01 2002
Subject: Numeric field
In-Reply-To: <200210101355.JAA15445@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20736CC7-DD0D-11D6-801B-0030656DAB8E@mac.com>

Hi Jan,
Thanks for reiterating all the bases you're covering.  I thought it 
might be something like that.  It's amazing how difficult it is to 
develop for the 'widest' user-base, isn't it?  I did accomplish 
something similar to what you are doing using the starter-kit before 
though.  To restrict data input to a highly specific format, I usually 
use a special "data input field" and lock the display field (if there is 
one).  In other words, I check the input afterwards, to make sure the 
format is correct, prior to doing any calculations etc.  For example, 
the 5 script lines in this data-input field I think address all of the 
extra points you mentioned:

on returnInField

replace "," with "" in me
if me is a number then  -- bad English, even for a Texan
put return & me after field mDisplay  -- or perform any calculations here
else
answer "wrong format idiot"
end if
put "" into me -- or hide me or whatever

end returnInField

Of course, your script is much cooler and more complete and far more 
user-friendly, but the above will work pretty well for programmers with 
starter-kits or ADD (;-)

best,
mark

Jan wrote:

> The additional code covers several things:
>
> 1) if the user "pastes" data, you don't get a keydown
> -- so you need a special construction to handle the
> pasteKey (which, for additional fun, isn't sent when
> the RunRev UI is running).
>
> 2) if you want to enable the user to type a decimal
> number, you have to keep track of how many times he
> typed a period -- so you have to keep an eye on
> selections, and check if the new data after the
> keyDown would still be a number.
>
> 3) if the data must be displayed in a format with
> thousand separators or a comma instead of a point, you
> need functions to convert back and forth between
> display and calculation format.



From curry at kagi.com  Fri Oct 11 06:51:01 2002
From: curry at kagi.com (curry)
Date: Fri Oct 11 06:51:01 2002
Subject: Speech on XP
In-Reply-To: <200210110126.VAA02953@www.runrev.com>
References: <200210110126.VAA02953@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b01b9cc670e9771@[68.34.213.220]>

This is a two-part question: First, does the speech external work on 
Windows XP? I assumed it doesn't, because the site for MS Speech only 
mentions up to W2K for the SAPI. But I don't have XP yet to try it. 
(If it does, I would be very happy to hear that and sorry for the 
wrong assumption, which is based totally on the MS information I 
could find.)

But if it doesn't work, then what options do we have to implement 
speech pretty easily on XP? I'm open and have looked for all kinds of 
solutions, whether a DLL that can be called with Rev's ability in 
calling DLL's, or a command-line solution, or any kind of Windows 
scripting similar to the kind of thing we would do with AppleScript 
(I have no idea if there is such a thing), or a helper application 
that can  be called in some way.

If XP offers anything that previous Windows didn't, it would be fine 
to use one thing for XP and the speech external for other Windows, 
although of course the fewer things used the better. Any ideas? I 
would really appreciate it--I have spent some time looking around but 
no real luck.

Curry


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 11 07:04:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri Oct 11 07:04:01 2002
Subject: Numeric field
In-Reply-To: <20736CC7-DD0D-11D6-801B-0030656DAB8E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20021011115809.6512.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- mark mitchell <cowhead at mac.com> wrote:
> Hi Jan,
> Thanks for reiterating all the bases you're
> covering.  I thought it 
> might be something like that.  It's amazing how
> difficult it is to 
> develop for the 'widest' user-base, isn't it?  I did
> accomplish 
> something similar to what you are doing using the
> starter-kit before 
> though.  To restrict data input to a highly specific
> format, I usually 
> use a special "data input field" and lock the
> display field (if there is 
> one).  In other words, I check the input afterwards,
> to make sure the 
> format is correct, prior to doing any calculations
> etc.  For example, 
> the 5 script lines in this data-input field I think
> address all of the 
> extra points you mentioned:
> 
> on returnInField
> 
> replace "," with "" in me
> if me is a number then  -- bad English, even for a
> Texan
> put return & me after field mDisplay  -- or perform
> any calculations here
> else
> answer "wrong format idiot"
> end if
> put "" into me -- or hide me or whatever
> 
> end returnInField
> 
> Of course, your script is much cooler and more
> complete and far more 
> user-friendly, but the above will work pretty well
> for programmers with 
> starter-kits or ADD (;-)
> 
> best,
> mark
> 

Hi Mark,

Post-validation works perfectly fine in a lot of cases
(and you're pretty much stuck with it in web-forms
which is yet another reason for me to dislike those
things), but I come from a typical database
background, where data format is very important,
combined with a business application background, where
time-loss due to personal errors must be kept to a
minimum.
Hence all the work on preventing errors at the root of
the problem (yes, you get a beep if you try and type a
'b' in a numeric field, makes sense, doesn't it?).
Especially as we've decided to adopt RunRev as our new
development environment to replace FoxPro and Omnis --
users of exisiting applications should feel 'at home'
in the new versions while enjoying the new bits we're
adding.
And in order to keep the maintenance time down, I try
and include things like frontScript and backScript
facilities whenever I get the chance. I have to admit
I was a bit sceptic at first : "what on earth is that?
isn't 'start using' enough?" but in situations like
these, they really shine.
And after the numeric fields, date fields and other
special-format fields (think "X-999-XXX/999") are in
the works, and will be made available through the user
contributions in a Template Fields stack when I get it
all finished.

Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.


=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Fri Oct 11 07:13:00 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE)
Date: Fri Oct 11 07:13:00 2002
Subject: Numeric field
In-Reply-To: <20021011115809.6512.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021011115809.6512.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p05100300b9cc6ef93719@[10.0.1.202]>

>And after the numeric fields, date fields and other
>special-format fields (think "X-999-XXX/999") are in
>the works, and will be made available through the user
>contributions in a Template Fields stack when I get it
>all finished.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Jan Schenkel.
>


jan

I'm waiting for your template stack very impatiently !
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be


From kkaufman at snet.net  Fri Oct 11 07:51:01 2002
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Fri Oct 11 07:51:01 2002
Subject: "Conforming" UI (was:REALbasic vs. Revolution)  
Message-ID: <5DE89CA0-DD17-11D6-AEFE-00039348A1E6@snet.net>

Ray Bennett wrote:
"Kurt - can you give us an idea of what sort of users you had?  Were 
they
random public folks or folks from a specific walk of life (such as
engineers, math teachers, lawyers, accountants)?  Just curious because
we're in the middle of several UI considerations for a cross-platform
app that will be going to a somewhat random "suzy/joe public"

One application is used to create MIDI files, obviously of interest 
primarily to musicians.  All necessary functions were accessed by way 
of buttons or "pull-down" buttons located within the window.  One 
person commented on lack of obvious "Quit" menu item (in Mac OS X, 
ironically, where such a function is "built-in" to the 
application-named menu).

Another application is used to view video clips in succession 
(typically the output of digital cameras in video mode), and for this I 
received much positive feedback, especially from Windows users.  Again, 
no "Quit" menu item, and all functions accessed via buttons. I would 
suppose that this application has been downloaded by a more "general" 
public than the MIDI application. -No mention from anyone of lack of 
menus.

Please note that I am not condoning the creation of applications 
without menus. In the past I have tried to place the appropriate menu 
items in the appropriate places to stay in line with typical user 
expectations.  I am merely suggesting that strict adherence to 
"official" UI guidelines may not be as important as we might think- as 
long as the program is not too complicated or difficult to use in the 
first place.

KK



From sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com  Fri Oct 11 08:51:00 2002
From: sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sylvain_Le_Gourri=E9rec?=)
Date: Fri Oct 11 08:51:00 2002
Subject: name of a new group
Message-ID: <003801c2712c$68d08170$6601a8c0@sylvax>

hello,



how can I name a group dynamically created?

e.g.


create button "myButton_1"
create button "myButton_2"


group button "myButton_1" and button "myButton_2"

-----> how can I give it a name ?

thanks


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Le Gourri?rec  --  d?veloppement  -- son-video-distribution   www.son-video.com
 
------------- I am working with Windows 2000, Revolution 1.1.1, MySQL 3.23 & PHP 4
-------------- next part --------------
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From webmaster at listology.com  Fri Oct 11 09:25:00 2002
From: webmaster at listology.com (Jim Biancolo)
Date: Fri Oct 11 09:25:00 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <B9CB8352.1E076%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021010214237.033e8620@mail.berkshire.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011100856.02c01c78@mail.berkshire.net>

At 07:19 PM 10/10/2002 -0700, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>What are the advantages of putting a browser inside on your app's window?
>What sort of apps are you folks making?

Hi Richard,

Specifically, I was thinking about building a news aggregator in RR, and a 
true browser control would be very helpful for that.

Generally, I tend to find the "browser as helper app" approach kinda 
jarring.  I either like my apps to reside entirely within the browser or 
entirely within the desktop app.  Kinda like HTML in e-mail (whose merits 
are dubious, I'll admit) - I'd find it very annoying to have my e-mail 
client fire up a separate browser window every time somebody sent me an 
HTML-formatted message.  That's just my personal preference though.

Jim



From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Oct 11 10:01:02 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri Oct 11 10:01:02 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0210101311070.12615-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0210101311070.12615-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9cc90e6e10a@[216.229.107.170]>

>For me, (and recall I'm not a professional developer), there is a
>difference between apps that all look identical (which is what everything
>done in VB tends to be) and apps which merely leverage a
>previously-learned UI, consistent adherence to which is often touted as a
>learning advantage.

Judy, et al:

That seems to be part of Apple's marketing hype since the first 
release of Mac OS.  And, frankly, there might have been good reason 
for it initially: the mouse & pull-down-&-select were new to the 
industry, so guidelines on how to use them helped show the way.

But when it gets to the point that reviewers ding Revolution (or any 
other application) because Quit is under the File menu (where it was 
"supposed" to be in OS 9) instead of the Applications menu (which 
Apple has now decreed as the place Quit is "supposed" to be), it 
reaches a level of pedantic absurdity.

-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Oct 11 10:21:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Oct 11 10:21:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <v03130306b9cc2322fd26@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <26D41C47-DD2C-11D6-95D2-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 12:43 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> The main initial motivation for adding the htmlText property, as I
> understand it, was to provide a method of storing and transporting styled
> text. So it's important that "set the htmlText of field X to the htmlText
> of field Y" make the text and styling of the two fields identical.

As that it is excellent!  And I'm glad to get whatever HTML capability this 
spins off along with that for free.

Dar



From Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu  Fri Oct 11 10:30:01 2002
From: Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu (Timothy Hart)
Date: Fri Oct 11 10:30:01 2002
Subject: Unexpectadly quits
Message-ID: <fc.004c4d190f37125c004c4d190f37125c.f371583@umit.maine.edu>

When I highlight 3 objects, copy them, paste them, click off the highlight, then try to move an obeject around again Revolution always quits on me.  I am in OS X.  ANy one have any similar problems with stability?

-Tim









From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 11 10:39:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri Oct 11 10:39:00 2002
Subject: name of a new group
References: <003801c2712c$68d08170$6601a8c0@sylvax>
Message-ID: <00ed01c2713a$def38ba0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Sylvain,

You can do this:

  set the name of last group to "MyGroupName"

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sylvain Le Gourri?rec" <sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 8:45 AM
Subject: name of a new group


hello,



how can I name a group dynamically created?

e.g.


create button "myButton_1"
create button "myButton_2"


group button "myButton_1" and button "myButton_2"

-----> how can I give it a name ?

thanks


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Le Gourri?rec  --  d?veloppement  -- son-video-distribution
www.son-video.com

------------- I am working with Windows 2000, Revolution 1.1.1, MySQL 3.23 &
PHP 4



From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Oct 11 11:23:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri Oct 11 11:23:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CB6ACC.B7AA%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <B9CB6ACC.B7AA%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9cca04c7f1a@[216.229.107.230]>

Kevin, et al:

>Geoff Perlman posted this on the RB mailing list,
>raising some good points which I thought I should reply to

I think Geoff missed the point entirely:

His issues are trivial compared to (and I'm speaking in general, not 
just RB vs RR):

Can I translate the design concept in my head to a working model -- mandatory
Can I deploy my application on the target platform -- usually mandatory
Can I translate my design concept quickly & easily -- highly desirable
Can I access and modify my source code quickly & easily -- desirable
How good are the debugging tools?
Does the platform support replaceable runtime libraries and 
program-modifiable code?


>  > I would look closely at the quality of the app each can produce. Is the
>  > interface a truly native interface or does it just try to look native?
>
>  > In other words, can you look at the app you build with it and tell the
>>  difference between it and other commercial software products created with
>  other tools?

I've reordered the second statement to highlight the conflict between 
the two.  As for the first, if my app looks good to me and my users, 
who is it that cares whether it is "a truly native interface or does 
it just try to look native"?

>  > How big are the applications it builds?

This one was the reason for the disdainful tone of my first response. 
It's a bogus issue in today's world of commercial bloatware and DSL 
net connections.  My clients are looking for a system or solution to 
meet their needs.  They are going to select the package that best 
meets their requirements and desires, not the one that requires the 
least amount of disk & RAM (though if my experience with HyperCard 
holds over to RR, my app may be the smallest).

>
>>  How rich is the framework provided? The vendor can only supply so much
>>  functionality. After that, you're going to want a rich set of third-party
>  > plug-ins to choose from. Which environment provides this?

As a publisher of commercial software, I prefer to create my own 
tools to avoid royalty or copyright issues.

>
>  > How reusable are the skills you are going to learn?

This one was the second reason for the disdainful tone of my first response.

>  > What resources are available to help you learn?

A reasonable issue; but not as vital as those Geoff left out.

>  >How well is the product
>  > recognized by the community?
>

An issue for folks who want to avoid leading-edge technology.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Oct 11 11:38:01 2002
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Oct 11 11:38:01 2002
Subject: Web Browser/Server Technique (was How real is the embedded web-page technique?)
In-Reply-To: <59.22e48e01.2ad7a74e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGOELLCFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>

I may be way off the mark here, but would a process as below help ?

I've used Rev as a Browser/Net go between to screen 'unsuitable' sites.
i) Use Rev as a local web server application on say port 8181
ii) Rev launches a local page on your browser say index.html:8181
iii) Any links on this page could be directed to http://127.0.0.1:8181
(I beleive 127.0.0.1 is always the local machine)
iv) This is then trapped by your local 'Rev Web Server' for processing
v) Rev can act on this, send and receive info to/from the web, alter it and
pass it to the local web browser.

In brief       (browser -> revserv) -> web
               web -> (revserv -> browser)

Have I explained this well enough ?

Regards

Gary Rathbone

-----------------------------------------------------------

>In a message dated 10/10/02 10:20:32 PM, ambassador at fourthworld.com writes:


>What are the advantages of putting a browser inside on your app's window?
>What sort of apps are you folks making?

>Well, I can speak for the app that I'm trying to make - - - a DSL Router
configuration tool...









From simon-lists at ldml.com  Fri Oct 11 12:12:01 2002
From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:12:01 2002
Subject: Unexpectadly quits
In-Reply-To: <fc.004c4d190f37125c004c4d190f37125c.f371583@umit.maine.edu>
Message-ID: <ABA0D392-DD3B-11D6-AC2B-0050E4CE1D03@ldml.com>

On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 04:23 PM, Timothy Hart wrote:

> ANy one have any similar problems with stability?

Well, I'm happy to pass on the little bit of info I picked up from the 
list 48 hours ago! Go to View -> Look and Feel. Select "Mac OS 
Emulated". You have to do this every time you start Rev.

HTH

Simon Forster
_________________________________________________
BabelFix Ltd, Office One, 16 Canham Road, London, W3 7SR, UK
<tel int="+44 20 8746 0555" uk="020 8746 0555">
<tel int="+44 70 9230 5244" uk="070 9230 5244">
<fax int="+44 70 9230 5247" uk="070 9230 5247">
<mailto:simon at babelfix.com>
_________________________________________________



From dan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 11 12:58:01 2002
From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:58:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
Message-ID: <a05200a30b9ccbebf78d0@[63.205.23.218]>

At 9:26 PM -0400 10/10/02, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>Jim Biancolo wrote:
>
>>  I agree that an embedded rendering engine would be a killer feature.
>
>I'v gotten so accustmed to using the browser as a helper app that I think
>I'm missing something:
>
>What are the advantages of putting a browser inside on your app's window?
>What sort of apps are you folks making?

The interface in a Web browser sucks. It's too primitive and limited 
to real application development. But the content with which 
interaction takes place and the display of that content are done very 
well by the WEb browser's HTML rendering engine, so that's the wheel 
I don't want to reinvent.

By way of example, I have a client for whom I've built an interactive 
Web site. Using this site, my client (a therapist with a unique 
approach to problem-solving) has *his* clients fill out some basic 
HTML forms to store information in a series of dynamically generated 
HTML documents. Then later we retrieve information from those 
documents to print reports for my client and his staff.

Using client-side JavaScript, I could improve the UI on the Web app 
somewhat, but I'd still be constrained. For example, looping over a 
list of documents meeting some title criteria and displaying a 
clickable list of them is pretty hairy and gets me into some 
cross-browser issues I don't even like to think about.

But if I could develop a custom application for my client in which 
the user forms are displayed in Rev and uploaded and in which the UI 
is a hybrid of the stand-alone app (with, if you will, a control 
skin) and the nicely rendered HTML information in the main pane, I'd 
get the best of both worlds.

Now I *could* do this by developing a screen scraper or a remote 
database access approach. But that requires a rewrite of the program 
and essentially takes the browser out of the loop, something with 
which my client isn't comfortable. Sometimes he needs to be able to 
access data when he's not on his computer (where the app will 
presumably reside).

I see lots of opportunity out there to create apps like this that 
display rendered and interactive HTML in a pane with supplemental 
controls and an improved UI embodied in the desktop app. In fact, I 
think this represents an important direction for software development.

FWIW, I think the Mozilla engine would be absolutely the best choice 
for this project and it has the added advantages that it's free and 
open source.
-- 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.danshafer.com
831-392-1127 Voice - 831-401-2531 Fax


From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Oct 11 13:29:00 2002
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Oct 11 13:29:00 2002
Subject: Web Browser/Server Technique more info...
In-Reply-To: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGOELLCFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>
Message-ID: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGCELNCFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>

I've uploaded a (slightly) better explanation of using Rev as a proxy /
firewall / filter / web integrator at
http://www.GaryRathbone.net/revserv/

With (rough and ready) sample downloads.

Regards

Gary Rathbone


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Gary Rathbone
Sent: 11 October 2002 17:30
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: RE: Web Browser/Server Technique (was How real is the embedded
web-page technique?)


I may be way off the mark here, but would a process as below help ?

I've used Rev as a Browser/Net go between to screen 'unsuitable' sites.
i) Use Rev as a local web server application on say port 8181
ii) Rev launches a local page on your browser say index.html:8181
iii) Any links on this page could be directed to http://127.0.0.1:8181
(I beleive 127.0.0.1 is always the local machine)
iv) This is then trapped by your local 'Rev Web Server' for processing
v) Rev can act on this, send and receive info to/from the web, alter it and
pass it to the local web browser.

In brief       (browser -> revserv) -> web
               web -> (revserv -> browser)

Have I explained this well enough ?

Regards

Gary Rathbone

-----------------------------------------------------------

>In a message dated 10/10/02 10:20:32 PM, ambassador at fourthworld.com writes:


>What are the advantages of putting a browser inside on your app's window?
>What sort of apps are you folks making?

>Well, I can speak for the app that I'm trying to make - - - a DSL Router
configuration tool...







_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Oct 11 13:46:00 2002
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Oct 11 13:46:00 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <a05200a30b9ccbebf78d0@[63.205.23.218]>
Message-ID: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGKELNCFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>

>Jim Biancolo wrote:
>
>  I agree that an embedded rendering engine would be a killer feature.
>

Embedded or higly integrated ?

--snip--

Dan Shafer wrote :

>I see lots of opportunity out there to create apps like this that
>display rendered and interactive HTML in a pane with supplemental
>controls and an improved UI embodied in the desktop app. In fact, I
>think this represents an important direction for software development.

Agreed, however we use multiple integrated applications on a daily basis eg
spreadsheet in excel, create a graph, copy paste to word, type a few words,
picture of the web and there's your report!

There's no reason why you can't currently use rev as your "control panel"
and a browser as your "display mechanism" with the users monitor as the
"pane".

Regards

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
Chartered Information Systems Practitioner




From webmaster at listology.com  Fri Oct 11 14:23:01 2002
From: webmaster at listology.com (Jim Biancolo)
Date: Fri Oct 11 14:23:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGKELNCFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>
References: <a05200a30b9ccbebf78d0@[63.205.23.218]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011150312.02bee190@mail.berkshire.net>

At 07:38 PM 10/11/2002 +0100, you wrote:
> >  I agree that an embedded rendering engine would be a killer feature.
>
>Embedded or higly integrated ?
>
>--snip--
>
>There's no reason why you can't currently use rev as your "control panel"
>and a browser as your "display mechanism" with the users monitor as the
>"pane".

I was going to ask for a better definition of the difference between 
"embedded" and "highly integrated" but I think based on your example I'd 
have to say "embedded".  I refer again to my e-mail client example:  the 
model currently used in several clients is a "mailbox" pane, a "subjects" 
pane, and a "message viewer" pane.  If I wanted to create such an 
application in RR that supported HTML mail, I don't think I could without 
an embeddable HTML rendering engine.  Clicking on a message in the 
"subjects" pane and having it fire up an external browser would be too 
kludgey, IMO.

But maybe this is a Windows bias . . . I'm a bit more used to having my 
apps self-contained.  Those few times I've had the opportunity to work on 
Macs I've found it disconcerting to have the menu floating off detached 
from the working area of its application.  Windows-conditioning aside, I 
stand by my wish:  I'd love to see a cross-platform control in RR that can 
render any well-formed HTML thrown at it.

Jim



From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Oct 11 15:44:01 2002
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:44:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011150312.02bee190@mail.berkshire.net>
Message-ID: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGKELOCFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>

Jim,

>Clicking on a message in the "subjects" pane and having
>it fire up an external browser would be too kludgey, IMO.

Personally, as long as it did what I wanted it to do, however complex, then
I wouldn't really mind if it involved a number of integrated seemless apps.

>But maybe this is a Windows bias . . . I'm a bit more used to having my
>apps self-contained. Those few times I've had the opportunity to work on
>Macs I've found it disconcerting to have the menu floating off detached
>from the working area of its application.

So that fact that the functional units are contained within a single
window/frame/pane gives the comforting perception/illusion of an integration
application ?

>Windows-conditioning aside, I
>stand by my wish:  I'd love to see a cross-platform control in RR that can
>render any well-formed HTML thrown at it.

Must admit, it would be nice ;-)

Regards

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
Chartered Information Systems Practitioner





From lrivers at realsoftware.com  Fri Oct 11 15:44:25 2002
From: lrivers at realsoftware.com (Lorin Rivers)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:44:25 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution 
In-Reply-To: <200210110126.VAA02953@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9CC9EAA.37AD1%lrivers@realsoftware.com>

On 10/10/02 8:26 PM, curry <curry at kagi.com> wrote:

> The question of RB vs. Rev is interesting and is getting more so, not
> less. The main reason I'm still interested in RB is its potential for
> 3D. That's the only place where Rev doesn't offer anything.
> 
> The main difference for me is that I *enjoy* working in Rev. I'm not
> sure if that point has been brought up as much! If I want to make
> something creative, I feel that Rev helps me do that because it's
> enjoyable to use. I like the scripting syntax most of all, and there
> are also some things about the developing environment that I like to
> use better.

I think this is a personal thing, and not an absolute truth. I think it has
more to do with an individual's learning style than anything else.

> I feel that scripting syntax is not only convenient to learn, but
> it's *superior* to other programming syntax. Readability is not just
> nice, it's also practical. (And if more of the world's code was
> written with syntax more similar to the English-like scripting syntax
> we find in HyperTalk and Transcript, we'd have a better world.) I
> like BASIC too, but the way MS took BASIC in adapting to GUI just
> didn't make it very readable. A more readable syntax would be
> possible for supporting those elements, and a few BASICs out there
> have been a bit more creative, but as it is, scripting is much better
> if you want something English-like;  which of course was what BASIC
> set out to do originally, right?.

More English like than COBOL or Pascal, certainly. That said readability can
significantly and negatively impact write-ability, at least in my
experience. I have to say, I'm one of those people who has a really hard
time with xTalk type languages (including AppleScript) but not with
REALbasic (my first success in learning programming after YEARS of trying
all the others).

> Here's another thing for me: I don't like having to declare every
> single variable. I was actually flamed by many users on the RB list
> when I suggested that RB allow writing without explicit
> variables--which I think VB has an option for, and some people had
> let that trip them up with a hard-to-find problem until they finally
> thought of turning on explicit variables. Sounds like not everything
> is right for everyone and it's their problem, but these users were
> scared out of their pants to allow this capability--even though they
> could just not use the option themselves, they couldn't stand the
> thought of someone else doing it. That kind of mindset just didn't
> impress me, especially since RB seemed to accept it readily.

This is a religious issue. It's interesting to compare PHP and REALbasic
(the only two languages I have passing familiarity with) in this regard. In
PHP variables are weakly typed but operators cannot be overloaded. In other
words you can use the "+" operator with a string "123" and double "2.34" and
like so (note not real PHP):
myresult = "123" + "2.34"

print myresult

and get: "125.34"


In REALbasic, you might have the same two things:
dim myString as String
dim myDouble as Double
dim myResult as Double
dim myOtherResult as String

myString = "123"
myDouble = 2.34

myResult = val(myString) + myDouble

In this case, myResult = 125.34

If you want to display that, you would convert it to a string:

myOtherResult = str(myResult)

Here's where it becomes more interesting.

There's no concatenation operator in REALbasic (I think it's "&" in
AppleScript).

So, if what you actually want is "1232.34" you do this:
myOtherResult = myString + str(myDouble)

This is sort of a wacky example, but overloading is something that makes
Object Oriented Programming powerful.


> Then there's the runtime development environment. You always have to
> run and quit with RB, and I like the way you can "tinker" in Rev, and
> really run  it outside the environment when you want.

I, of course, don't find this an advantage in Rev or a disadvantage in
REALbasic. I like it fine, and don't mind the run, debug, quit routine. For
one thing, it's quite fast in REALbasic, though not in all IDEs that follow
this model.

> <Rev Feature Request Snipped>
> So I have many reasons to like Rev and will do everything in Rev that
> is supported. But RB is also a very good tool and with a Windows dev
> environment coming out, that's going to make it a lot more realistic
> for cross-platform development.

Well, I'm glad you think so. One other thing that will occur in the new
version is the debug process being separate from the IDE process, so should
you make an error in your code that causes your app to crash, you won't
bring REALbasic down with it.

> <multimedia related requests for Rev snipped>
> 
> <expression of a desire for a third-party community for Rev snipped>
> 
> Both Rev and RB are good products. But the ultimate factors for me
> are what I can do and how I can do it. I enjoy working with Rev a lot
> more, and I'm trusting that the few remaining areas that need more
> support will be supported.

Horses for courses, yes! I appreciate the thought-provoking email.

-- 
Lorin Rivers                      mailto:lrivers at realsoftware.com
Vice President of Marketing       512.328.REAL (7325) x712 v
REAL Software                     512.328.7372 f
1705 South Capital of Texas Hwy.  http://www.realsoftware.com
Suite 310                         REALbasic: the powerful, easy-to-use
Austin, Texas 78746               tool for creating your own software
                                  for Macintosh, Mac OS X, and Windows.



From lrivers at realsoftware.com  Fri Oct 11 15:45:01 2002
From: lrivers at realsoftware.com (Lorin Rivers)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:45:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <200210111601.MAA20226@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9CCA0A4.37AD3%lrivers@realsoftware.com>

On 10/11/02 11:01 AM, Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:

>> For me, (and recall I'm not a professional developer), there is a
>> difference between apps that all look identical (which is what everything
>> done in VB tends to be) and apps which merely leverage a
>> previously-learned UI, consistent adherence to which is often touted as a
>> learning advantage.
> 
> Judy, et al:
> 
> That seems to be part of Apple's marketing hype since the first
> release of Mac OS.  And, frankly, there might have been good reason
> for it initially: the mouse & pull-down-&-select were new to the
> industry, so guidelines on how to use them helped show the way.
> 
> But when it gets to the point that reviewers ding Revolution (or any
> other application) because Quit is under the File menu (where it was
> "supposed" to be in OS 9) instead of the Applications menu (which
> Apple has now decreed as the place Quit is "supposed" to be), it
> reaches a level of pedantic absurdity.

I understand that people agree with you, but I find non-conforming UI to be
somewhat jarring when I encounter it. That sometimes includes Cocoa apps,
because Carbon apps are more "Mac like" to me, see the difference between
apps created using either API regarding text clipping and proxy icon
behaviors.

I think that non-standard UI sometimes makes sense--Games, truly unique apps
such as Bryce and others of that ilk. The easier a new user can understand
what is where in your app, the better off they (and by extension you) will
be.

This is where the Mac shines versus Windows, in my opinion.
-- 
Lorin Rivers                      mailto:lrivers at realsoftware.com
Vice President of Marketing       512.328.REAL (7325) x712 v
REAL Software                     512.328.7372 f
1705 South Capital of Texas Hwy.  http://www.realsoftware.com
Suite 310                         REALbasic: the powerful, easy-to-use
Austin, Texas 78746               tool for creating your own software
                                  for Macintosh, Mac OS X, and Windows.



From webmaster at listology.com  Fri Oct 11 16:40:01 2002
From: webmaster at listology.com (Jim Biancolo)
Date: Fri Oct 11 16:40:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGKELOCFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011150312.02bee190@mail.berkshire.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011171041.02c03cd0@mail.berkshire.net>

At 09:36 PM 10/11/2002 +0100, Gary Rathbone wrote:
> >But maybe this is a Windows bias . . . I'm a bit more used to having my
> >apps self-contained. Those few times I've had the opportunity to work on
> >Macs I've found it disconcerting to have the menu floating off detached
> >from the working area of its application.
>
>So that fact that the functional units are contained within a single
>window/frame/pane gives the comforting perception/illusion of an integration
>application ?

I fear we're starting to stray off-topic for the list, but yeah, I find it 
to be a helpful visual cue.  Again, might be years of conditioning talking, 
but I'm trying to imagine running several applications at once where the 
functional units are divided into discrete panes and my mind recoils.  I 
mean, just trying to visually distinguish which panes belong to which apps 
when there are other panes/apps in the background would be icky.  If I'm 
running three apps and toggling between them I'd much rather deal with 
three total panes than six (two each) or nine (three each).

Then again, the last Mac user I visited had this monster plasma screen, so 
maybe it's just a question of expensive hardware screen real estate vs. 
cheap hardware screen real estate.  I'm sure I wouldn't mind the multi-pane 
apps so much if I could put them in a dedicated portion of such a vast 
expanse of pixels.

> >Windows-conditioning aside, I
> >stand by my wish:  I'd love to see a cross-platform control in RR that can
> >render any well-formed HTML thrown at it.
>
>Must admit, it would be nice ;-)

:-)  A guy can dream, right?

Jim



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Fri Oct 11 17:08:01 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Fri Oct 11 17:08:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b9cc90e6e10a@[216.229.107.170]>
Message-ID: <15BD8A82-DD65-11D6-8E4B-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Saturday, Oct 12, 2002, at 00:50 Australia/Sydney, Rob Cozens wrote:

>> For me, (and recall I'm not a professional developer), there is a
>> difference between apps that all look identical (which is what 
>> everything
>> done in VB tends to be) and apps which merely leverage a
>> previously-learned UI, consistent adherence to which is often touted 
>> as a
>> learning advantage.
>
> Judy, et al:
>
> That seems to be part of Apple's marketing hype since the first 
> release of Mac OS.  And, frankly, there might have been good reason 
> for it initially: the mouse & pull-down-&-select were new to the 
> industry, so guidelines on how to use them helped show the way.
>
> But when it gets to the point that reviewers ding Revolution (or any 
> other application) because Quit is under the File menu (where it was 
> "supposed" to be in OS 9) instead of the Applications menu (which 
> Apple has now decreed as the place Quit is "supposed" to be), it 
> reaches a level of pedantic absurdity.

This conformity question tends to be framed as expert/creative vs new 
user. The expert has depth and better ideas than those enforced by the 
theory police while the new user is a tabula rasa, needing either 
simple repetitive rules or a creative interface which they can learn in 
depth and enjoy to the full.

This presentation ignores breadth. Please spare a thought for those who 
use a very wide variety of tools. Glancing down my dock (I am not alone 
in this of course. ) I currently have seventeen applications open (many 
trivial like mail and a web browser as expected) and another ten or so 
which I use regularly, after which you get to less common tools and 
utilities. For me these cover a wide range of application areas in 
management of information (principally people, events, plans and 
finance) and manipulation of ideas, words, numbers (five for numbers 
alone) and diagrams as well as management of the system. One of the 
permanent attractions of the Mac compared with any alternative over 
nearly twenty years has been the ease with which I can switch between 
apps, including less commonly used ones, and expect to find all 
controls neatly to hand and behaving as I expect, leaving only the 
unique components of the app to be recalled in context. This 
facilitation of depth in breadth is and has always been enormously 
powerful, yet the Mac interface has improved over time.

A down-side of conformity to me personally has arisen where a common 
interface which is a complete dog, e.g. that of MS Word, is taken up by 
other manufacturers in the interests of keeping things "easy".

So, happy to see innovation (anyone remember Apple's experimental 
mouse-driven 3D space into files and the web?). However, please 
consider on the one hand that the person learning your creative 
interface may also be a user of other similar tools, not of yours 
alone, and on the other that bad design is not improved by repetition.

I'll pay a penny for this one.

regards
David

>
> -- 
>
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Oct 11 17:15:00 2002
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Oct 11 17:15:00 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011171041.02c03cd0@mail.berkshire.net>
Message-ID: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGAEMACFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>

At 09:36 PM 10/11/2002 +0100, Gary Rathbone wrote:

>So that fact that the functional units are contained within a single
>window/frame/pane gives the comforting perception/illusion of an
integration
>application ?

>I fear we're starting to stray off-topic for the list...

Fair point. But when many people on this list ask for features to be
included in Rev there is often another way of doing the same task. We don't
request spreadsheet capability in word, cos we've got excel, and the two are
compatible. It often seems to me that cos a user can't do something then
they request a feature, all I'm trying to do is suggest 'reasonable
alternatives'(look sidewards). I see my computer as a working unit, not each
individual application.

>I mean, just trying to visually distinguish which panes belong to which
apps
>when there are other panes/apps in the background would be icky.  If I'm
>running three apps and toggling between them I'd much rather deal with
>three total panes than six (two each) or nine (three each).

Again, fair point. But this also relates to the recent 'Conforming UI'
thread on the list, so its relevant. A badly designed GUI makes even the
simplist application difficult to use. So what defines a good GUI ?
(rhetotical question OK !)

>I'd love to see a cross-platform control in RR that can render any
well-formed HTML thrown at it.
>>Must admit, it would be nice ;-)

:-)  A guy can dream, right?

Oh yeah !

Thanks Jim, as you suggested we're straying off-topic, so I'll leave you to
have the last word (if you wish...)

Regards

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
Chartered Information Systems Practitioner






From dan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 11 17:27:01 2002
From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri Oct 11 17:27:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
Message-ID: <a05200a3cb9ccfef0843d@[63.205.23.218]>

At 4:41 PM -0400 10/11/02, Gary Rathbone wrote:
>Dan Shafer wrote :
>
>>I see lots of opportunity out there to create apps like this that
>>display rendered and interactive HTML in a pane with supplemental
>>controls and an improved UI embodied in the desktop app. In fact, I
>>think this represents an important direction for software development.
>
>Agreed, however we use multiple integrated applications on a daily basis eg
>spreadsheet in excel, create a graph, copy paste to word, type a few words,
>picture of the web and there's your report!
>
>There's no reason why you can't currently use rev as your "control panel"
>and a browser as your "display mechanism" with the users monitor as the
>"pane".

I understand the use of multiple interacting applications. I just 
don't think the solution is elegant. Rather it seems to me have 
emerged from the absence of truly integrated *solutions*.

Also, each time you add an app to this group, you create seams. Seams 
are where problems arise in applications and solutions. Users who 
don't have the right stuff or know how to use it can't make full use 
of the solution. IOW, this approach places more of a burden on the 
user and/or the user's system.

If incorporating an HTML rendering engine were hard, I wouldn't even 
suggest it. But it's only a moderately difficult task and we'll be 
seeing tons more apps which replace the general-purpose Web Browser 
with specialized browsers by this very mechanism. I'd just like to 
see Rev be one of the tools that allows that so I can keep using it 
for my applications!
-- 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
How smart do you work? What's your TQ (Time Quotient)?
Find out free in 2 minutes at http://www.thinktq.com/Results2002
Free one-year training course in your email box - $120 value
Get an insightful book written and published EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOU


From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Oct 11 17:53:01 2002
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Oct 11 17:53:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <a05200a3cb9ccfef0843d@[63.205.23.218]>
Message-ID: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGOEMACFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>

Dan,

>>There's no reason why you can't currently use rev as your "control panel"
>>and a browser as your "display mechanism" with the users monitor as the
>>"pane".

>I understand the use of multiple interacting applications. I just
>don't think the solution is elegant. Rather it seems to me have
>emerged from the absence of truly integrated *solutions*.

Elegant, no. But powerful yes! Why reinvent the wheel when we have powerful
purpose built applications which can and will interact ?

>If incorporating an HTML rendering engine were hard, I wouldn't even
>suggest it. But it's only a moderately difficult task and we'll be
>seeing tons more apps which replace the general-purpose Web Browser
>with specialized browsers by this very mechanism.

But what else to include for other users with other specific tasks; image
manipulations tools similar to photoshop; page layout tools similar to
Quark; 3D rendering tools, the list goes on...
I'd prefer Rev to be able to *talk* to these specialist tools rather than be
a poor relation in an attempt to replicate and keep up with current
specialist trends.

>I'd just like to see Rev be one of the tools that allows that so I can keep
using it
>for my applications!

I don't doubt that everyone on the list agrees with you !

Regards

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
Chartered Information Systems Practitioner




From RGould8 at aol.com  Fri Oct 11 18:00:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Fri Oct 11 18:00:01 2002
Subject: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?
Message-ID: <7a.2e6bc384.2ad8b086@aol.com>

Sarah - - - thanks so much for this script.   I've hit one stumbling block 
that's keeping it from running, and no one seems to know how to fix it - - - 
was wondering if someone on this list might:

The problem is with this line:

if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration)

appleScript is complaining of a type mismatch problem.   I thought perhaps 
putting 

if (class of configuration i of config) as string is (TCPIP v4 configuration)

might fix the problem, but that gave me a syntax error.   I've only been 
scripting for about 2 months.   Would anyone happen to know how to solve such 
type-matching errors?   The impression I get is that you can't compare a 
string to a class.

- Rob

In a message dated 10/2/02 7:08:18 PM, sarahr at genesearch.com.au writes:

> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> Here is Ken's script with an added section that changes the relevant
> setting to DHCP. As Ken mentioned, this just handles the first TCP
> configuration it finds, so you might need to add a check for other
> configs, but it should get you started:
> 
> set configMethod to ""
> set configName to ""
> set cfg to ""
> 
> tell application "Network Setup Scripting"
> ? ? open database
> ? ? set config to current configuration set
> ? ? repeat with i from 1 to count of configuration of config
> ? ? ? ? if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration)
> then
> ? ? ? ? ? ? set cfg to configuration i of config
> ? ? ? ? ? ? set configName to name of config -- so you can check the name 
> to see
> if it's the right one
> ? ? ? ? ? ? exit repeat
> ? ? ? ? end if
> ? ? end repeat
> ? ? set configMethod to configuration method of cfg
> ? ?
> ? ? try
> ? ? ? ? if configMethod ? "DHCP" then
> ? ? ? ? ? ? begin transaction
> ? ? ? ? ? ? set protec to get protection of configuration method of cfg
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if protec = locked then return "Setting is locked"
> ? ? ? ? ? ? set the configuration method of cfg to DHCP
> ? ? ? ? ? ? end transaction
> ? ? ? ? end if
> ? ? on error errMsg number errNum
> ? ? ? ? close database
> ? ? ? ? return "Error: " & errMsg & " " & errNum
> ? ? end try
> ? ?
> ? ? close database
> ? ? return "Setting changed to DHCP"
> end tell
> 
> Note: there is a line above that uses the Mac's Not-equal sign
> (option-equal): if configMethod **not-equal** "DHCP" then
> It may not translate via email. Also beware of long lines wrapping. If
> you want me to send you the actual script, send me an email off-list.
> 
> Sarah
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 11 19:32:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Oct 11 19:32:01 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <a05100301b9cca04c7f1a@[216.229.107.230]>
Message-ID: <B9CCBA33.1E14B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

>>> How rich is the framework provided? The vendor can only supply so much
>>> functionality. After that, you're going to want a rich set of third-party
>>> plug-ins to choose from. Which environment provides this?
> 
> As a publisher of commercial software, I prefer to create my own
> tools to avoid royalty or copyright issues.


The question itself raises more questions:

- Exactly what's missing from the language that's critical enough to make
this relevant?

- What's wrong with the language such that a completely separate API in
needed for plugins?

I Rev/MC we can trade groups and other native objects without needing to
treat them as second-class citizens.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 11 20:06:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri Oct 11 20:06:00 2002
Subject: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?
References: <7a.2e6bc384.2ad8b086@aol.com>
Message-ID: <028a01c2718a$1eea6ae0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Rob,

What version of AppleScript/Mac OS are you using? It is possible that this
configuration didn't work properly in earlier versions...

The reason I say that is that since I was the original poster of the
AppleScript (to which Sarah added her valuable additions), and it worked for
me on an iMac running OS 10.1...

Let us know,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: <RGould8 at aol.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?


Sarah - - - thanks so much for this script.   I've hit one stumbling block
that's keeping it from running, and no one seems to know how to fix it - - -
was wondering if someone on this list might:

The problem is with this line:

if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration)

appleScript is complaining of a type mismatch problem.   I thought perhaps
putting

if (class of configuration i of config) as string is (TCPIP v4
configuration)

might fix the problem, but that gave me a syntax error.   I've only been
scripting for about 2 months.   Would anyone happen to know how to solve
such
type-matching errors?   The impression I get is that you can't compare a
string to a class.

- Rob

In a message dated 10/2/02 7:08:18 PM, sarahr at genesearch.com.au writes:

>
> Hi Rob,
>
> Here is Ken's script with an added section that changes the relevant
> setting to DHCP. As Ken mentioned, this just handles the first TCP
> configuration it finds, so you might need to add a check for other
> configs, but it should get you started:
>
> set configMethod to ""
> set configName to ""
> set cfg to ""
>
> tell application "Network Setup Scripting"
> open database
> set config to current configuration set
> repeat with i from 1 to count of configuration of config
> if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration)
> then
> set cfg to configuration i of config
> set configName to name of config -- so you can check the name
> to see
> if it's the right one
> exit repeat
> end if
> end repeat
> set configMethod to configuration method of cfg
>
> try
> if configMethod ? "DHCP" then
> begin transaction
> set protec to get protection of configuration method of cfg
> if protec = locked then return "Setting is locked"
> set the configuration method of cfg to DHCP
> end transaction
> end if
> on error errMsg number errNum
> close database
> return "Error: " & errMsg & " " & errNum
> end try
>
> close database
> return "Setting changed to DHCP"
> end tell
>
> Note: there is a line above that uses the Mac's Not-equal sign
> (option-equal): if configMethod **not-equal** "DHCP" then
> It may not translate via email. Also beware of long lines wrapping. If
> you want me to send you the actual script, send me an email off-list.
>
> Sarah
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>




From webmaster at listology.com  Fri Oct 11 20:29:01 2002
From: webmaster at listology.com (Jim Biancolo)
Date: Fri Oct 11 20:29:01 2002
Subject: How real is the embedded web-page technique?
In-Reply-To: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGAEMACFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011171041.02c03cd0@mail.berkshire.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011203920.00b0e628@mail.berkshire.net>

At 11:07 PM 10/11/2002 +0100, Gary Rathbone wrote:
>Thanks Jim, as you suggested we're straying off-topic, so I'll leave you to
>have the last word (if you wish...)

Thanks for the interesting thread Gary (and other participants).  Having 
too much fun to quit now, so you can have the last word if you 
wish.  :-)  Getting back on-topic . . .

>Fair point. But when many people on this list ask for features to be
>included in Rev there is often another way of doing the same task. We don't
>request spreadsheet capability in word, cos we've got excel, and the two are
>compatible. It often seems to me that cos a user can't do something then
>they request a feature, all I'm trying to do is suggest 'reasonable
>alternatives'(look sidewards). I see my computer as a working unit, not each
>individual application.

So really the question is whether or not an HTML renderer should be 
considered a fundamental component or whether it's specialized enough to be 
left as a separate tool, yes?  I'd vote for the former.  My rationale:

    * For better or worse, HTML seems to be the lingua franca of the web, 
and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.  Rather than give browsers a 
monopoly on HTML rendering, I'd like to see pretty much every 
application/development environment be able to render it.  Indeed, I think 
the ability to render HTML is more noteworthy by it's absence rather than 
it's presence.  Consider all the tools that can process it:  most word 
processors, pretty much every Microsoft product, many e-mail clients, 
off-line news readers, heck there are even java applets, activeX objects 
and flash components that allow you to do WYSIWYG editing of HTML as a FORM 
INPUT so it can be passed for storage in some backend DB.

    * Not that everybody should rush to jump off the same bridge, but I 
think it is in recognition of this trend that Microsoft makes IE embeddable 
in Windows apps (and it's trivially easy to do so), and Mozilla makes Gecko 
embeddable pretty much anywhere (although I personally don't have the 
skills to take advantage of this).

    * The existence of the htmlText property is a nod in the direction of a 
full-fledged renderer.  Why not go all the way?

    * Another point in this regard:  from the RR "What Can I Build" page, 
item #1:  "Internet front ends - Create your own custom browser for your 
own content, offering capabilities and responsiveness you can't match with 
cobbled-together DHTML pages. Internet-ready Revolution makes this quick 
and simple, with the ability to display data from any URL (including text, 
HTML, pictures, video and sound) right in your application windows, perform 
POST and GET operations with a single command, and use sockets for direct 
communication with an Internet host."

Only one major component missing!  :-)

Take care,

Jim (who probably won't be back online until Tuesday, so you really can 
have the last word :-)




From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Oct 11 20:32:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri Oct 11 20:32:01 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CCBA33.1E14B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B9CCF249.155CA%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/11/02 8:26 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> - What's wrong with the language such that a completely separate API in
> needed for plugins?
> 
> I Rev/MC we can trade groups and other native objects without needing to
> treat them as second-class citizens.

Personally, I think this conversation is spent. But since it seems to
continue, I'll go ahead and ask where the SSL object is. Where the Open GL
object is. Where the sheets object is. The sprite animation object. The PDF
importer. The PDF exporter. The QuickTime capture object. The Firewire
output object. The USB object. Even the throbbing button object (native, not
simulated.)

I could easily go on. If these objects are out their for trading, send'm
over. I take it that a different API isn't needed, and these things can be
whipped up with a little transcript. Sounds like no big deal, right?

I promise not to treat them as second class citizens.  ;)

My point is, until RunRev makes it possible - it ain't possible. Stacks with
some transcript embedded in them may be handy-dandy work savers, but they're
not adding any real new capabilities. I wouldn't even call them plugins
personally. If this (pre-coded stacks) is what you are referring to... no
offense meant... but... big deal. As far as I've seen, there is not one of
them that adds anything real to the environment.

The more this conversation continues, the harder it forces me to look at
what is really missing from the Revolution environment. To be honest, I
liked it better before you guys started defending it. A lot better.

Even the thought that anything that is missing can be made into a freaking
transcript stack is ludicrous, unless RunRev and Metacard add those
functions for you. I think that Rev is good enough that it defends itself as
a fast, simple, development environment with a good degree of power
considering the ease of use. It has some extreme advantages for certain
types of projects. It is a great thing. But, trying to argue that it is the
be-all-end-all environment in every way just makes it, and its users, sound
amateur and small-time. These are not the type of arguments which will
attract 3rd party developers to produce actual plugins for Revolution, which
is what I had hoped would be accomplished. They are the type of arguments
which will keep them away.

By the way, the one guy who started the conversation fled to become a new RB
user a couple of days ago.

I'd suggest dropping the topic before licensed users who have been champions
for the tool abandon it as well. I sincerely doubt that you are winning any
converts on the RB list. Both Kevin Miller, and Scott Raney have adequately
made appropriate comments there. Fanning the flames is doing Revolution no
favors.

Revolution is great. But it is version 1, and has quite a ways to grow. 3rd
party developers working to create actual plugins would go a long way toward
that. Please don't imply that we don't need them. We do. By the hundreds.
Like RB has.

-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From Mike at doub.com  Fri Oct 11 20:41:00 2002
From: Mike at doub.com (Mike Doub)
Date: Fri Oct 11 20:41:00 2002
Subject: Scrolling Objects
Message-ID: <200210120040.UAA01719@www.runrev.com>

What is the best way to implement a list of objects that are scrollable.  I have a need to scroll a "list" of groups that are made up of a text field grouped with a few graphical elements.  

Is there some way to attach an obect to a scrollable text field?  Is there another object designed for this purpose?

Thanks in advance!

-- Mike


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Fri Oct 11 21:03:00 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri Oct 11 21:03:00 2002
Subject: Scrolling Objects
In-Reply-To: <200210120040.UAA01719@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHGEENCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Group the groups into one big group then open the properties palette then
check Vertical Scrollbar on the Group tab.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Mike Doub
> Sent: Saturday, 12 October 2002 11:04 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Scrolling Objects
>
>
>
> What is the best way to implement a list of objects that are
> scrollable.  I have a need to scroll a "list" of groups that are
> made up of a text field grouped with a few graphical elements.
>
> Is there some way to attach an obect to a scrollable text field?
> Is there another object designed for this purpose?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> -- Mike
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 11 21:09:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri Oct 11 21:09:00 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution 
References: <B9CC9EAA.37AD1%lrivers@realsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <028f01c27192$dbb0dbc0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Lorin,

I haven't said much in this "debate" because usually it's a matter of
personal preference. Many people find VB very easy to use; others find it
foreign or difficult. Some find Rev easy, others find it not so easy. There
are so many factors involved (amount of programming background, tools used
in the past, frustrations encountered, "cool" things that other programs had
that you hope are in this one, etc.) that it is tough to make a clear
statement one way or the other, and it is the purpose of the company that
makes the development environments to make it clear as to what it feels are
the good points (and more importantly the challenging ones) in their tool.

As someone who's used VB for 7 years, and xTalks for 10, I can tell you that
for me it generally boils down to three basic points:

1) How easy is it to understand the basics (sorry for the pun) of the
environment?

2) How quickly do I adapt to the environment so that it doesn't feel "wierd"
to me?

3) Does the environment have the necessary "chops" (functionally) to create
the kind of programs that I need to make?

For me, interface is a key... not *adherence* to a specific OS's interface,
but within its own context. I am from the school of "try and keep to the
OS's interface, unless it makes better sense to do something else"... ;-)

> More English like than COBOL or Pascal, certainly. That said readability
can
> significantly and negatively impact write-ability, at least in my
> experience. I have to say, I'm one of those people who has a really hard
> time with xTalk type languages (including AppleScript) but not with
> REALbasic (my first success in learning programming after YEARS of trying
> all the others).

I agree with this, for the most part. However there's also the comparison
between how long it takes to initially write it, and how long it takes to
modify it after you have not seen the code for a year. In general, I'd
rather write more up front so I don't have to reinterpret my code a year
later. However there are some variations that (to me at least) are just as
readable a year later:

  tVar = 100

is just as readable as:

  put 100 into tVar

to me.

And as far as AppleScript is concerned, it has it's own rigorous syntax to
adhere to and you can't debug the thing anyway... ;-)

> This is a religious issue. It's interesting to compare PHP and REALbasic
> (the only two languages I have passing familiarity with) in this regard.
In
> PHP variables are weakly typed but operators cannot be overloaded. In
other
> words you can use the "+" operator with a string "123" and double "2.34"
and
> like so (note not real PHP):
> myresult = "123" + "2.34"
>
> print myresult
>
> and get: "125.34"

Rev does the same thing as PHP here:

  put "123" + "2.34"

gives you "125.34"

> In REALbasic, you might have the same two things:
> dim myString as String
> dim myDouble as Double
> dim myResult as Double
> dim myOtherResult as String
>
> myString = "123"
> myDouble = 2.34
>
> myResult = val(myString) + myDouble
>
> In this case, myResult = 125.34
>
> If you want to display that, you would convert it to a string:
>
> myOtherResult = str(myResult)
>
> Here's where it becomes more interesting.
>
> There's no concatenation operator in REALbasic (I think it's "&" in
> AppleScript).

And in Rev as well, so to get "1223.34" you do:

  put "123" & "2.34"

> So, if what you actually want is "1232.34" you do this:
> myOtherResult = myString + str(myDouble)
>
> This is sort of a wacky example, but overloading is something that makes
> Object Oriented Programming powerful.

And Object-Based as well... ;-)

Just my $0.02,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Oct 11 21:12:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Oct 11 21:12:01 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CCF249.155CA%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <35AD66D0-DD87-11D6-93E5-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 07:25  PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
> My point is, until RunRev makes it possible - it ain't possible. 
> Stacks with
> some transcript embedded in them may be handy-dandy work savers, but 
> they're
> not adding any real new capabilities. I wouldn't even call them plugins
> personally. If this (pre-coded stacks) is what you are referring to... 
> no
> offense meant... but... big deal. As far as I've seen, there is not 
> one of
> them that adds anything real to the environment.

Believe me, it's no better in realbasic. The only advantage they have 
is maybe a 2 year head start for developers to write plugins.

Rev and Realbasic are very similar in that if some functionality 
doesn't exist, one writes something to link with a C library to do it. 
In Rev this thing is named an "external" and in realbasic it's named 
"plugin".

So if Rev doesn't do something you want, find a C library and hack 
yourself together an external.

This is what realbasic users have to do for a wide variety of things, 
including *gasp* carbon GUI stuff which RB itself does not yet 
implement.

As far a code modularity and so forth, Realbasic doesn't even have the 
concept of "plugin" that Rev has. So that's one point for Rev, in my 
book.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 11 21:13:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri Oct 11 21:13:01 2002
Subject: Scrolling Objects
References: <200210120040.UAA01719@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <029c01c27193$7a147f10$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Mike,

Use a group object and turn on its vertical scrolling property. You can
"group the groups", and after you apply the scrollbar, it becomes a
scrolling region in and of itself.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Doub" <Mike at doub.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 8:34 PM
Subject: Scrolling Objects


>
> What is the best way to implement a list of objects that are scrollable.
I have a need to scroll a "list" of groups that are made up of a text field
grouped with a few graphical elements.
>
> Is there some way to attach an obect to a scrollable text field?  Is there
another object designed for this purpose?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> -- Mike
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From Mike at doub.com  Fri Oct 11 21:20:01 2002
From: Mike at doub.com (Mike Doub)
Date: Fri Oct 11 21:20:01 2002
Subject: Scrolling Objects
Message-ID: <200210120119.VAA04055@www.runrev.com>

Is there a way to hide the scroll bar?   I would like to control the scroll programaticly.

Thank you all for being so responsive.  This is great!

-- Mike




> Mike,
> 
> Use a group object and turn on its vertical scrolling property. You can
> "group the groups", and after you apply the scrollbar, it becomes a
> scrolling region in and of itself.
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Doub" <Mike at doub.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 8:34 PM
> Subject: Scrolling Objects
> 
> 
> >
> > What is the best way to implement a list of objects that are scrollable.
> I have a need to scroll a "list" of groups that are made up of a text field
> grouped with a few graphical elements.
> >
> > Is there some way to attach an obect to a scrollable text field?  Is there
> another object designed for this purpose?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > -- Mike
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From Mike at doub.com  Fri Oct 11 21:22:01 2002
From: Mike at doub.com (Mike Doub)
Date: Fri Oct 11 21:22:01 2002
Subject: Scrolling Objects
Message-ID: <200210120120.VAA04123@www.runrev.com>

Is there a way to hide the scroll bar?   I would like to control the scroll programaticly.

Thank you all for being so responsive.  This is great!

-- Mike




> Mike,
> 
> Use a group object and turn on its vertical scrolling property. You can
> "group the groups", and after you apply the scrollbar, it becomes a
> scrolling region in and of itself.
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Doub" <Mike at doub.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 8:34 PM
> Subject: Scrolling Objects
> 
> 
> >
> > What is the best way to implement a list of objects that are scrollable.
> I have a need to scroll a "list" of groups that are made up of a text field
> grouped with a few graphical elements.
> >
> > Is there some way to attach an obect to a scrollable text field?  Is there
> another object designed for this purpose?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > -- Mike
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 11 21:40:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri Oct 11 21:40:01 2002
Subject: Scrolling Objects
References: <200210120120.VAA04123@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <036f01c27197$46ad2d30$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Absolutely. Turn off the vertical scroll bar and say:

 set the scroll of <groupDesc> to <value>

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Doub" <Mike at doub.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: Scrolling Objects


> Is there a way to hide the scroll bar?   I would like to control the
scroll programaticly.
>
> Thank you all for being so responsive.  This is great!
>
> -- Mike
>
>
>
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > Use a group object and turn on its vertical scrolling property. You can
> > "group the groups", and after you apply the scrollbar, it becomes a
> > scrolling region in and of itself.
> >
> > Ken Ray
> > Sons of Thunder Software
> > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Doub" <Mike at doub.com>
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 8:34 PM
> > Subject: Scrolling Objects
> >
> >
> > >
> > > What is the best way to implement a list of objects that are
scrollable.
> > I have a need to scroll a "list" of groups that are made up of a text
field
> > grouped with a few graphical elements.
> > >
> > > Is there some way to attach an obect to a scrollable text field?  Is
there
> > another object designed for this purpose?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance!
> > >
> > > -- Mike
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-revolution mailing list
> > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 11 22:08:01 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri Oct 11 22:08:01 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CCF249.155CA%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOCEJICHAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Well after reading all of this...I can't help but put in my 2 cents.

Troy, I must disagree with the notion you forward:

> My point is, until RunRev makes it possible - it ain't possible.
> Stacks with
> some transcript embedded in them may be handy-dandy work savers,
> but they're
> not adding any real new capabilities. I wouldn't even call them plugins
> personally. If this (pre-coded stacks) is what you are referring to... no
> offense meant... but... big deal. As far as I've seen, there is not one of
> them that adds anything real to the environment.

how about libURL? Talk about 'real new capabiities'!
In fact there are a number of revolution 'stacks' that are scripted
completely with transcript which are *very* powerful tools. I myself have
built an asynchronous http file transfer utility file upload (RFC1867
compatible) completely within RunRev which works very well. I believe there
are a number of very interesting possiblilities for plugins which can be
developed wholly inside RunRev.

Also, I must also say that if you want to add a feature...it *can* be done.
I recently presented a RR app with embedded IE browser to my client. I
believe there are 2 good reasons we don't see more 'C' plugins developed for
RR.

1) It's only a bit more than a year old and;
2) Many (like me) would like them developed cross-platform, Mac, Linux and
Windows. That takes a particular set of skills. But it is happening.

Kevin and Scott have to weigh the value of a feature on all platforms before
implementing it only on one (ex. throbbing buttons). As a previous rabid Mac
person, I'm well aware of the 'world revolves around us' mentality of Apple
users, but I believe great opportunity exists in the Windows and Linux
environments...perhaps more than in the Mac world.

Changing gears... interfaces...

I'm an older user...in fact I purchased a 128K Mac the first day it was
available. Back then, programmers had *no concept* of GUI -- so Apple
created the Human Interface Guidelines -- and a book "Tog on Interface" to
help programmers and a new breed of designers begin to 'standardize' on
interface design. I was one of these new designers. Apple hired me on a
number of occasions to help their clients design complex interfaces for
projects like Executive Information Systems and Video Effects Controllers.

Sticking to the interface was important up until...the advent of multimedia.
Then button rollovers, sounds, effects, beautiful revealling interfaces
changed it all. Kai Krause showed interfaces could be different, beautiful,
intuitive and still work. Though Apple still would like to see you stick
with their interface guidelines, the reality is that it's no more a
necessity. Good interface design *is* good interface design -- on any
platform (throbbing buttons notwithstanding;-).

The web came along and changed completely the interface paradigm. People
learned to 'search' for features and use 'back' buttons, be modal
etc...things the early Apple I/F authors would deplore! In fact a selling
point for some very high-end software is a ubiquitous interface across
platforms (Lightwave,Alias,Avid come to mind).

One thing I do admire about Windows, is the lack of a 'holy ordained look'
(just my opinion).

--Chipp



From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Oct 11 22:53:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri Oct 11 22:53:01 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOCEJICHAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <B9CD139C.155E0%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/11/02 11:01 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> how about libURL? Talk about 'real new capabiities'!
> In fact there are a number of revolution 'stacks' that are scripted
> completely with transcript which are *very* powerful tools. I myself have
> built an asynchronous http file transfer utility file upload (RFC1867
> compatible) completely within RunRev which works very well. I believe there
> are a number of very interesting possiblilities for plugins which can be
> developed wholly inside RunRev.

OK. Whatever. I give up.

This is my last post on the topic. Maybe at all here.
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From bvlahos at mac.com  Fri Oct 11 23:16:02 2002
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Fri Oct 11 23:16:02 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CCF249.155CA%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <430AACA6-DD98-11D6-9011-003065EC5590@mac.com>

I agree. Let's drop it and get on with discussions about Revolution.

Bill Vlahos

On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 06:25  PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> Personally, I think this conversation is spent.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Oct 12 00:10:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Oct 12 00:10:01 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CD139C.155E0%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <B9CCFB67.1E186%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:

> This is my last post on the topic. Maybe at all here.

Troy, I'll get on bended knee if necessary, but your posts have been among
the most thought-provoking here yet.  I can honestly say I've spent more
time thinking about words you've laid down here than 90% of the email I read
(you even got me poking around in iShell for hours one night -- fscinating
gadget).

I'm back to good ol' Rev nerd talk here myself, and I think a lot of folks
share your sentiment.  Please stay, and stay vocal.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From raney at metacard.com  Sat Oct 12 01:10:01 2002
From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney)
Date: Sat Oct 12 01:10:01 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <200210120318.XAA06776@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210112247230.22134-100000@mast.metacard.com>

On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> On 10/11/02 8:26 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> > - What's wrong with the language such that a completely separate API in
> > needed for plugins?
> > 
> > I Rev/MC we can trade groups and other native objects without needing to
> > treat them as second-class citizens.
> 
> Personally, I think this conversation is spent. But since it seems to
> continue, I'll go ahead and ask where the SSL object is. Where the Open GL
> object is. Where the sheets object is. The sprite animation object. The PDF
> importer. The PDF exporter. The QuickTime capture object. The Firewire
> output object. The USB object. Even the throbbing button object (native, not
> simulated.)
> 
> I could easily go on. If these objects are out their for trading, send'm
> over. I take it that a different API isn't needed, and these things can be
> whipped up with a little transcript. Sounds like no big deal, right?

There's definitely some confusion here: these are not what would be
called "plug-ins" in RR, they'd be externals.  All of these things
*could* be done with externals, many of them quite straightforwardly,
at least if you know C and can find some sample code for them.  If
there is anything RR lacks here in relation to RB, it's the installed
base that likes to develop and release these kinds of things.  There
are at least three reasons for this I think:

1) The RB installed base has a much larger percentage of hobbyists,
shareware developers, and others for whom the investment in time in
building things like these is more easily justified.  More of RRs
customers (and an even greater percentage of MetaCard's customers)
have real jobs with real deadlines and so can't spend any time toying
with stuff like this.  They're also a lot less likely to be enticed by
making a few bucks selling such a widget if they did have the time to
make one.  Many of those that do work on externals like this, again
especially in MetaCard's case, do it for proprietary advantage and so
either can't or just don't want to make them publicly available.

2) As has been argued on the RB list on this topic, RB is much closer
in syntax to C and so I thing RB developers make the transition to
C/C++/Java more easily, a step that is required in order to build
these widgets.  Of course this has its downsides as in many cases RB
will be nothing more than a kind of waystation for developing
programmers (i.e. "Hey, I'm already taking a 2X hit in productivity by
developing in a third generation language, why should I also take a
2X-4X hit in performance and a big hit in flexibility relative to C++
too?").

3) We support more platforms than they do, have a much more balanced
ratio among users of the various platforms (RB only runs on the Mac,
so RB users and RB plugins are overwhelmingly biased toward that
platform and most don't work with Windows at all).  Furthermore, at
least in the case of MetaCard, a large portion of our sales are to
customers using UNIX workstations, which means a lot of extra work
developing your external and then either releasing the source to it so
that these UNIX users can build it themselves, or acquiring and
maintaining half a dozen workstations to build and maintain it.

All in all, though, I don't consider the lack of these things to be
significant disadvantages.  True, it means some projects will have to
be done using other tools, but that's true of any tool, including RB
where their development environment and most of these "plug-ins" are
written in C or C++ because you can't easily build these things in RB
itself either.

I've also had a lot of experience with these kinds of "add-ons" for
other scripting languages, Visual Basic, and Director and can only say
at best it's a mixed bag.  When the core tool is missing significant
features, it frequently takes a long time to track down what you need
and figure out how to use it, the quality of the add-ons and the
documentation for them are nearly always lower than what you get from
the main product, and the few really good quality add-ons tend to be
rather expensive.

As for the specific elements on your list, most of our customers (and
potential customers) don't need 3D, so that will probably have to wait
until someone releases an external to do it (I know of two of these
already, but they only run on UNIX systems and were done by companies
that can't/won't release them).  But sheets and animated buttons are
already done for the upcoming release, SSL is on the to-do list for
the release after that, USB and Firewire should be straightforward at
least on Mac OS X given the existing "open driver" feature (though
we've had very few requests for these, and very little interest even
in "open driver" itself), and RR is already working on some of the QT
recording features.

Our natural inclination when adding engine features is to do things
right, rather than quick.  This means it might take longer to make
some things available, the eventual product is of better quality and
easier to use than what you get with some other products (e.g. the
"player" object vs. the movie XCMD add-ons you get with HyperCard and
SuperCard, and the raw QT API you get with RB).  You can help by
requesting features you really need (not just "check-list" items), and
providing suggestions as to how they would be used and what the
scripting-language API for them should be.
  Regards,
    Scott

********************************************************
Scott Raney  raney at metacard.com  http://www.metacard.com
MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...




From curry at kagi.com  Sat Oct 12 01:33:01 2002
From: curry at kagi.com (curry)
Date: Sat Oct 12 01:33:01 2002
Subject: Speech with Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <200210120318.XAA06776@www.runrev.com>
References: <200210120318.XAA06776@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b00b9cd674a0aeb@[68.34.213.220]>

A thousand pardons for two posts on the same topic, but with all the 
sensational Rev vs. Real stuff sizzling on the list, maybe some of 
the plainer topics don't stand out.

I have several projects that need speech, and on Mac that's no 
problem. On Windows, it was no problem either until XP came along, 
and from Microsoft's website it looks like the Speech SAPI that the 
Windows speech external uses only works up to Win2000. If that's 
correct, then I'm wondering about a fairly easy way to use speech on 
Windows XP.

I assume there are surely some Revolution users who use 
text-to-speech in cross-platform projects?  I would really appreciate 
your tips if anyone knows a good way.

Whether it is a DLL or some type of helper app (that can be 
distributed) or interapplication communication, doesn't matter that 
much to me as long as it's not too  clunky. Or a programming language 
that has speech features and could be used to make an executable 
helper app.

I'm also going to contact Tuviah about this and see if he has any 
suggestions, if so, I'll let you know, but please let me know too if 
you have any solutions.

I would also be willing to pay for a third-party solution, if it were 
designed to market to more than one person;  I'm not currently 
situated to hire a custom solution alone and pay more for making Rev 
talk on XP than for Revolution itself! TTS complements a wide variety 
of applications. I think it's really worth having cross-platform.

Curry


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Oct 12 02:23:00 2002
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Sat Oct 12 02:23:00 2002
Subject: Speech with Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00b9cd674a0aeb@[68.34.213.220]>
Message-ID: <B9CD1D19.5CEA%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello Curry

I'll be following this with great interest. Many of my intended users have
vision, speech and motor deficits. I D/L'd a TTS program for my Windows
machine a couple months ago (cost $$ and has only one voice...you can get
more for more $$...stuff that has come with Mac OS' for a long time), but I
haven't a clue how to get it to work with a Rev-built app. One of the goals
is for a speech deficited user to be able to hold a synthesized voice phone
conversation from an onscreen keyboard. Like you mentioned, it's really not
much problem with a Mac, but Windows is a real challenge.

Ken N.
----------
on 10/11/02 11:24 PM, curry at curry at kagi.com wrote:

> A thousand pardons for two posts on the same topic, but with all the
> sensational Rev vs. Real stuff sizzling on the list, maybe some of
> the plainer topics don't stand out.
> 
> I have several projects that need speech, and on Mac that's no
> problem. On Windows, it was no problem either until XP came along,
> and from Microsoft's website it looks like the Speech SAPI that the
> Windows speech external uses only works up to Win2000. If that's
> correct, then I'm wondering about a fairly easy way to use speech on
> Windows XP.
> 
> I assume there are surely some Revolution users who use
> text-to-speech in cross-platform projects?  I would really appreciate
> your tips if anyone knows a good way.
> 
> Whether it is a DLL or some type of helper app (that can be
> distributed) or interapplication communication, doesn't matter that
> much to me as long as it's not too  clunky. Or a programming language
> that has speech features and could be used to make an executable
> helper app.
> 
> I'm also going to contact Tuviah about this and see if he has any
> suggestions, if so, I'll let you know, but please let me know too if
> you have any solutions.
> 
> I would also be willing to pay for a third-party solution, if it were
> designed to market to more than one person;  I'm not currently
> situated to hire a custom solution alone and pay more for making Rev
> talk on XP than for Revolution itself! TTS complements a wide variety
> of applications. I think it's really worth having cross-platform.
> 
> Curry



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Oct 12 02:48:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat Oct 12 02:48:01 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs.	Revolution)
In-Reply-To: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOCEJICHAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <B9CD2087.1E1A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:

> Sticking to the interface was important up until...the advent of multimedia.
> Then button rollovers, sounds, effects, beautiful revealling interfaces
> changed it all. Kai Krause showed interfaces could be different, beautiful,
> intuitive and still work. Though Apple still would like to see you stick
> with their interface guidelines, the reality is that it's no more a
> necessity. Good interface design *is* good interface design -- on any
> platform (throbbing buttons notwithstanding;-).
> 
> The web came along and changed completely the interface paradigm. People
> learned to 'search' for features and use 'back' buttons, be modal
> etc...things the early Apple I/F authors would deplore! In fact a selling
> point for some very high-end software is a ubiquitous interface across
> platforms (Lightwave,Alias,Avid come to mind).
> 
> One thing I do admire about Windows, is the lack of a 'holy ordained look'
> (just my opinion).

Very important topic, Chipp.

I'm writing an article on application design, and I could use some help from
the folks on this list.

The article has a working title of:

   The Transcendental GUI:
   The case for platform-independent application design

The article will examine the UI differences between the four major desktop
OS families (Mac Classic, Aqua, Win32, UNIX/Linux), and explore ways to
design GUIs with a single interface which comforms to the spirit of the
respective OS Human Interface Guidelines, but transcends some of the
specifics in favor of greater interoperability.

If Apple realy wants people to switch, "not invented here" or "lickable" are
no substitutes for user testing.  Sooner or later the various window
managers in the Linux world will have to come in from outer space if they
want a share of the desktop.  And Windows is simply noisy and garish.

Driven by the Web (where folks spend most of their computing time) and
multi-computer households, the desktop is already in a state of flux whether
we acknowledge it in our designs or not.

The needs of OS vendors differ from the needs of users.  OS vendors derive
value from the very differentiation that hinders trans-OS adoption.  In an
increasingly interoperable world, we have an opportunity to provide guidance
to OS vendors by encouraging independent thought that's user-centered rather
than vendor-centered.
 
One of the challenges I've had in researching this article is finding
examples of popular platform-independent GUIs which take liberties with
OS-specific guidelines.

LimeWire is an obvious example of even extreme disregard for convention
failing to affect popularity, and of course there's Kai's work (although I
have some personal problems with much of his stuff).  But I'm having a tough
time finding others.

If you know of an application that is popular, runs on at least two
platforms, and takes significant liberties with the native UI, I'd love to
take a look at it.


PS: good article on these issues from '96:

The Anti-Mac Interface
by Don Gentnera and Jakob Nielsen
<http://www.acm.org/cacm/AUG96/antimac.htm>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From heather at runrev.com  Sat Oct 12 04:21:01 2002
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Williams)
Date: Sat Oct 12 04:21:01 2002
Subject: OT: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <200210120318.XAA06776@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9CDA656.CE76%heather@runrev.com>

> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 23:47:40 -0400
> Subject: Re: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
> From: Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> 
> On 10/11/02 11:01 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
> 
>> how about libURL? Talk about 'real new capabiities'!
>> In fact there are a number of revolution 'stacks' that are scripted
>> completely with transcript which are *very* powerful tools. I myself have
>> built an asynchronous http file transfer utility file upload (RFC1867
>> compatible) completely within RunRev which works very well. I believe there
>> are a number of very interesting possiblilities for plugins which can be
>> developed wholly inside RunRev.
> 
> OK. Whatever. I give up.
> 
> This is my last post on the topic. Maybe at all here.
> -- 
> Troy


At the risk of prolonging this thread, I really wanted to chip (oh, sorry
Chipp ;-) in here. Troy, I hope you're not going to withdraw your valuable
contributions :-). I for one have been reading this exchange with very great
interest, and I'm sure other members of the team have as well. It's vital
for us to know everyone's hopes and dreams for Rev, as well as the more
practical visions of our power users. I don't consider it off topic at all,
though others may differ :-) I'd agree it's played out now, I think everyone
has said what they wanted to, but I hope you'll all go back to programming
in a positive frame of mind from this exchange, perhaps with some new ideas
and inspirations, rather than on an exasperated note.

On a more list mom note, guys (and gals) a reminder please, to never, ever,
post your unlock codes to the list :(. A most unfortunate accident. Oh, and
please, do turn off your html renderings before posting. Plain text only
please when posting to the list.

Warm regards,

Heather
-- 
Heather Williams <heather at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Ltd.
Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707
Revolution - the Power Solution



From matt.denton at limelight.com.au  Sat Oct 12 04:34:01 2002
From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton)
Date: Sat Oct 12 04:34:01 2002
Subject: Multimedia in Rev
In-Reply-To: <200210120319.XAA06796@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <DD29C613-DDC4-11D6-A614-000393924880@limelight.com.au>

Hey-ya List

Well after some trepidation, I've built a nice, tidy small multimedia 
app!  I love building tools in Rev but haven't had a chance to 'test 
the waters' in a live, multimedia app. Still a bit more to add, some 
testing on all platforms, but NICE!  Lots of fun!  Now to playback on 
CD...

Onya ReV!

M@
Matt Denton



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Sat Oct 12 04:58:00 2002
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Sat Oct 12 04:58:00 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CCFB67.1E186%ambassador@fourthworld.com> 
References: <B9CCFB67.1E186%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20021012095253.44455.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

I AGREE! Please continue to add your thought-provoking commentary. To make a 
good stew, the pot must be stirred from time-to-time. 

miscdas 

 

[snip] 

Richard Gaskin writes: 

> Troy Rollins wrote: 
> 
>> This is my last post on the topic. Maybe at all here.
> 
> Troy, I'll get on bended knee if necessary, but your posts have been among
> the most thought-provoking here yet.  I can honestly say I've spent more
> time thinking about words you've laid down here than 90% of the email I read
> (you even got me poking around in iShell for hours one night -- fscinating
> gadget). 
> 
> I'm back to good ol' Rev nerd talk here myself, and I think a lot of folks
> share your sentiment.  Please stay, and stay vocal.
 


From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Sat Oct 12 05:10:01 2002
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Sat Oct 12 05:10:01 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210112247230.22134-100000@mast.metacard.com> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210112247230.22134-100000@mast.metacard.com>
Message-ID: <20021012100446.65777.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Scott,
Please, please continue with a business paradigm that includes "do things
right, rather than quick". As a Windoze user, I am sick of the buggy 
bloatware offered by MS. I NEVER install version 1.x of any MS products; the 
patches and bug fixes that have to be installed are a testament to the 
"great ball of string" being so huge and tangled that we're forever locked 
in a never-ending cycle of fixes and patches. 

miscdas 

[snip] 

Scott Raney writes: 

> Our natural inclination when adding engine features is to do things
> right, rather than quick.  This means it might take longer to make
> some things available, the eventual product is of better quality and
> easier to use than what you get with some other products...
>   Regards,
>     Scott
 


From kevin at runrev.com  Sat Oct 12 08:52:01 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Sat Oct 12 08:52:01 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210112247230.22134-100000@mast.metacard.com>
Message-ID: <B9CDE664.B8F4%kevin@runrev.com>

On 12/10/02 7:03 am, Scott Raney <raney at metacard.com> wrote:

> There's definitely some confusion here: these are not what would be
> called "plug-ins" in RR, they'd be externals.  All of these things
> *could* be done with externals, many of them quite straightforwardly,
> at least if you know C and can find some sample code for them.  If
> there is anything RR lacks here in relation to RB, it's the installed
> base that likes to develop and release these kinds of things.  There
> are at least three reasons for this I think:

Right.  And I would put in a fourth reason, in front of all of these.
Revolution has only been shipping for a year.  Look at the history of just
about any new technology: it takes time for all this stuff to come together.
When you look at this in the context of our original time projections for
this sort of thing to develop, we're doing just fine.

> As for the specific elements on your list, most of our customers (and
> potential customers) don't need 3D, so that will probably have to wait

Note this isn't an RR specific statement (I can't make one at this time).

> But sheets and animated buttons are
> already done for the upcoming release, SSL is on the to-do list for
> the release after that, USB and Firewire should be straightforward at
> least on Mac OS X given the existing "open driver" feature (though
> we've had very few requests for these, and very little interest even
> in "open driver" itself), and RR is already working on some of the QT
> recording features.

There is going to be a *lot* of stuff in the next release, then more in the
release after.  Our year two is going to be just great.  Please be patient.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com  Sat Oct 12 08:54:01 2002
From: sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sylvain_Le_Gourri=E9rec?=)
Date: Sat Oct 12 08:54:01 2002
Subject: big pb with standAlone & MySQL
Message-ID: <001501c271f5$e8f260c0$6601a8c0@sylvax>

hello,

I really need help.

I develop a backoffice. Not a very difficult thing but I have to be very care about the relationships between the standAlone revolution app & MySQL.

Into the development environment, no pb. So, I build the distribution. 

It arrived that I got a "revdberr, restricted under current license" !

So I decided to write my script again :((

I have no more error message but only 20 rows are retrieved!

Of course I have a license.


What can I do? I waste a lot of time with that...

thanks


ps  of course, my scripts are not basic. But they are not very complex. The most complex function I wrote includes just  3 functions call!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Le Gourri?rec  --  d?veloppement  -- son-video-distribution   www.son-video.com
 
------------- I am working with Windows 2000, Revolution 1.1.1, MySQL 3.23 & PHP 4
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From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Sat Oct 12 09:57:01 2002
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (Bernard Devlin)
Date: Sat Oct 12 09:57:01 2002
Subject: ODBC problem
Message-ID: <200210112118.RAA29033@www.runrev.com>


I have a repeatable problem with ODBC on Windows 2000 (SP 2).

When I try to use Rev to access a Firebird database via ODBC, I get the
following fatal error:

"The instruction at 'Ox10002b40' referenced memory at '0x00000038'.  The memory
could not be 'read' "

This happens after the connection to the database has been established using
the Database Manager, and when I try to run a simple select statement.

On restarting Rev and repeating these steps, the problematic locations
referenced are different.

This only happens when I use the Easysoft drivers.  When I use an open
source driver from XTG, there is no error.  (You might just say 'well, stick
with that' - but I would like to ensure that I can use Rev, Firebird and
Easysoft - since Easysoft is the more established driver). 

I also get a different error using the open source IBPhoenix ODBC driver.  With
their driver I get:

"Invalid parameter index 0".

Again, I am just running a simple select query from the connection window that
is produced by the Database Manager.

I have tried run SQL queries against all three of these drivers with other
software, and there were no problems.  (Please let me know if you think this is
a driver problem, and I will take this up with their respective developers.)  

If you wish to reproduce the problem here are the locations for the pieces of
software I am referring to:
Firebird
		http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/firebird/Firebird-1.0.0.796-Win32.exe
Easysoft		http://www.easysoft.com/support/trials.phtml?product=2201
IBPhoenix driver	http://www.ibphoenix.com/main.nfs?a=ibphoenix&page=ibp_60_odbc
------------------------
XTG drivers	http://www.xtgsystems.com/linux/ofbodbc/download.php

The XTG open source driver works, so I hope that the availability of the source
code for both that driver and the IBPhoenix driver would enable you to find out
the problem Revolution has with the latter.

I have attaced the ODBCtrace file which has the operations in the following
order:
1) successful select  using XTG driver
2) failed select using IBPhoenix driver
3) terminal failed select using Easysoft driver

Incidentally, another small problem with the query window thrown up by the
Database Manager - it defaults to ending a SQL query with a ";" at the end.  I
have found with every driver I have used that this ";" is extraneous.  It would
be better to omit it, as it will be misleading for people as the error that
ensues is unlikely to identify this as the problem.

I hope we can get this ODBC issue  resolved.  

I want to be able to use Firebird and Revolution for my business.
And I want to see Revolution become a major development platform.  I am a
profession software developer with accreditions from Microsoft, Lotus and IBM,
currently working in a J2EE environment.  But my aim is to build my business
using Revolution as one of my two principal development platforms.  It is an
amazing product.  

I am not making any more IT purchases until I can register my business in the
next week or two.  Once I have done this I will be purchasing a license for Rev.
I can always use the XTG drivers, but would prefer to know that I can choose
between these different drivers if I find there are any other problems further
down the road.

Incidentally, I have already suggested that Runrev look at incorporating native
support (as with MySQL) for Firebird.  There are many good reasons why you might
want to do this (I believe Geoff Canyon has been looking at this).

Regards,
Bernard Devlin
-------------- next part --------------
Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLConnectW 
		HDBC                03411598
		WCHAR *             0x03412730 [      -3] "fbXTGLocal\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLConnectW  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HDBC                03411598
		WCHAR *             0x03412730 [      -3] "fbXTGLocal\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLAllocStmt 
		HDBC                03411598
		HSTMT *             0012F374

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLAllocStmt  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HDBC                03411598
		HSTMT *             0x0012F374 ( 0x03411b30)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLPrepare 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UCHAR *             0x00E10E70 [      21] "select * from country"
		SDWORD                    21

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLPrepare  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UCHAR *             0x00E10E70 [      21] "select * from country"
		SDWORD                    21

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLNumParams 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F354

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLNumParams  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F354 (0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLExecute 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLExecute  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLNumResultCols 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F384

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLNumResultCols  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F384 (2)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLNumResultCols 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F34E

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLNumResultCols  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F34E (2)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLRowCount 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SQLLEN *            0x0012F350

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLRowCount  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SQLLEN *            0x0012F350 (-1)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLDescribeCol 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 
		UCHAR *             0x00E10CA4 
		SWORD                      255 
		SWORD *             0x0012F32C
		SWORD *             0x0012F32E
		SQLLEN *            0x0012F340
		SWORD *             0x0012F332
		SWORD *             0x0012F330

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLDescribeCol  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 
		UCHAR *             0x00E10CA4 [       7] "COUNTRY"
		SWORD                      255 
		SWORD *             0x0012F32C (7)
		SWORD *             0x0012F32E (12)
		SQLLEN *            0x0012F340 (15)
		SWORD *             0x0012F332 (0)
		SWORD *             0x0012F330 (0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLBindCol 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_C_CHAR>
		PTR                0x00E10C80
		SQLLEN                    16
		SQLLEN *            0x00E10DAC

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLBindCol  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_C_CHAR>
		PTR                0x00E10C80
		SQLLEN                    16
		SQLLEN *            0x00E10DAC (0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLDescribeCol 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        2 
		UCHAR *             0x00E10474 
		SWORD                      255 
		SWORD *             0x0012F32C
		SWORD *             0x0012F32E
		SQLLEN *            0x0012F340
		SWORD *             0x0012F332
		SWORD *             0x0012F330

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLDescribeCol  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        2 
		UCHAR *             0x00E10474 [       8] "CURRENCY"
		SWORD                      255 
		SWORD *             0x0012F32C (8)
		SWORD *             0x0012F32E (12)
		SQLLEN *            0x0012F340 (10)
		SWORD *             0x0012F332 (0)
		SWORD *             0x0012F330 (0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLBindCol 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        2 
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_C_CHAR>
		PTR                0x00E10C60
		SQLLEN                    11
		SQLLEN *            0x00E1057C

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLBindCol  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        2 
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_C_CHAR>
		PTR                0x00E10C60
		SQLLEN                    11
		SQLLEN *            0x00E1057C (0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLSetStmtOption 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        9 <SQL_ROWSET_SIZE>
		SQLLEN                  2427

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLSetStmtOption  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        9 <SQL_ROWSET_SIZE>
		SQLLEN                  2427

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 100 (SQL_NO_DATA_FOUND)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFreeStmt 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 <SQL_DROP>

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFreeStmt  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 <SQL_DROP>

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLDisconnect 
		HDBC                03411598

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLDisconnect  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HDBC                03411598

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFreeConnect 
		HDBC                03411598

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFreeConnect  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HDBC                03411598

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFreeEnv 
		HENV                034114F0

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFreeEnv  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HENV                034114F0

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLAllocEnv 
		HENV *              00E10EE0

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLAllocEnv  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HENV *              0x00E10EE0 ( 0x034114f0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLAllocConnect 
		HENV                034114F0
		HDBC *              00E10EE4

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLAllocConnect  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HENV                034114F0
		HDBC *              0x00E10EE4 ( 0x03411598)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLDriverConnectW 
		HDBC                03411598
		HWND                00000000
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 
		SWORD                        8 
		SWORD *             0x00000000
		UWORD                        0 <SQL_DRIVER_NOPROMPT>

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLDriverConnectW  with return code -1 (SQL_ERROR)
		HDBC                03411598
		HWND                00000000
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 
		SWORD                        8 
		SWORD *             0x00000000
		UWORD                        0 <SQL_DRIVER_NOPROMPT>

		DIAG [IM002] [Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Data source name not found and no default driver specified (0) 

		DIAG [01S00] [Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Invalid connection string attribute (0) 

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLConnectW 
		HDBC                03411598
		WCHAR *             0x03411AA8 [      -3] "fbOpenLocal\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLConnectW  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HDBC                03411598
		WCHAR *             0x03411AA8 [      -3] "fbOpenLocal\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLAllocStmt 
		HDBC                03411598
		HSTMT *             0012F374

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLAllocStmt  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HDBC                03411598
		HSTMT *             0x0012F374 ( 0x03411b30)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLPrepare 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UCHAR *             0x00E10E70 [      21] "select * from country"
		SDWORD                    21

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLPrepare  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UCHAR *             0x00E10E70 [      21] "select * from country"
		SDWORD                    21

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLNumParams 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F354

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLNumParams  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F354 (6960)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLBindParameter 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_PARAM_INPUT>
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_C_CHAR>
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_CHAR>
		SQLULEN                    0
		SWORD                        0 
		PTR                0x005680AC
		SQLLEN                     0
		SQLLEN *            0x00E10E60

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLBindParameter  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_PARAM_INPUT>
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_C_CHAR>
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_CHAR>
		SQLULEN                    0
		SWORD                        0 
		PTR                0x005680AC
		SQLLEN                     0
		SQLLEN *            0x00E10E60 (0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLExecute 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLExecute  with return code -1 (SQL_ERROR)
		HSTMT               03411B30

		DIAG [HY000] invalid parameter index 0 (-5) 

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLErrorW 
		HENV                034114F0
		HDBC                03411598
		HSTMT               03411B30
		WCHAR *             0x0012F330 (NYI) 
 		SDWORD *            0x0012F364
		WCHAR *             0x0012EF30 
		SWORD                      511 
		SWORD *             0x0012F36C

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLErrorW  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HENV                034114F0
		HDBC                03411598
		HSTMT               03411B30
		WCHAR *             0x0012F330 (NYI) 
 		SDWORD *            0x0012F364 (-5)
		WCHAR *             0x0012EF30 [      25] "invalid para"
		SWORD                      511 
		SWORD *             0x0012F36C (25)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFreeStmt 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 <SQL_DROP>

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFreeStmt  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 <SQL_DROP>

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLDisconnect 
		HDBC                03411598

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLDisconnect  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HDBC                03411598

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFreeConnect 
		HDBC                03411598

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFreeConnect  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HDBC                03411598

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFreeEnv 
		HENV                034114F0

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFreeEnv  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HENV                034114F0

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLAllocEnv 
		HENV *              00E10EE0

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLAllocEnv  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HENV *              0x00E10EE0 ( 0x034114f0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLAllocConnect 
		HENV                034114F0
		HDBC *              00E10EE4

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLAllocConnect  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HENV                034114F0
		HDBC *              0x00E10EE4 ( 0x03411598)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLDriverConnectW 
		HDBC                03411598
		HWND                00000000
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 
		SWORD                        8 
		SWORD *             0x00000000
		UWORD                        0 <SQL_DRIVER_NOPROMPT>

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLDriverConnectW  with return code -1 (SQL_ERROR)
		HDBC                03411598
		HWND                00000000
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 
		SWORD                        8 
		SWORD *             0x00000000
		UWORD                        0 <SQL_DRIVER_NOPROMPT>

		DIAG [IM002] [Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Data source name not found and no default driver specified (0) 

		DIAG [01S00] [Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Invalid connection string attribute (0) 

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLConnectW 
		HDBC                03411598
		WCHAR *             0x03411AA8 [      -3] "fbEasyLocal\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLConnectW  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HDBC                03411598
		WCHAR *             0x03411AA8 [      -3] "fbEasyLocal\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 
		WCHAR *             0x1F7D8B70 [      -3] "******\ 0"
		SWORD                       -3 

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLAllocStmt 
		HDBC                03411598
		HSTMT *             0012F374

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLAllocStmt  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HDBC                03411598
		HSTMT *             0x0012F374 ( 0x03411b30)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLPrepare 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UCHAR *             0x00E10E70 [      21] "select * from country"
		SDWORD                    21

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLPrepare  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UCHAR *             0x00E10E70 [      21] "select * from country"
		SDWORD                    21

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLNumParams 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F354

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLNumParams  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F354 (0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLExecute 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLExecute  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLNumResultCols 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F384

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLNumResultCols  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F384 (2)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLNumResultCols 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F34E

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLNumResultCols  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SWORD *             0x0012F34E (2)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLRowCount 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SQLLEN *            0x0012F350

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLRowCount  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		SQLLEN *            0x0012F350 (-1)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLDescribeCol 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 
		UCHAR *             0x00E10CA4 
		SWORD                      255 
		SWORD *             0x0012F32C
		SWORD *             0x0012F32E
		SQLLEN *            0x0012F340
		SWORD *             0x0012F332
		SWORD *             0x0012F330

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLDescribeCol  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 
		UCHAR *             0x00E10CA4 [       7] "COUNTRY"
		SWORD                      255 
		SWORD *             0x0012F32C (7)
		SWORD *             0x0012F32E (12)
		SQLLEN *            0x0012F340 (15)
		SWORD *             0x0012F332 (0)
		SWORD *             0x0012F330 (0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLBindCol 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_C_CHAR>
		PTR                0x00E10C80
		SQLLEN                    16
		SQLLEN *            0x00E10DAC

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLBindCol  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        1 
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_C_CHAR>
		PTR                0x00E10C80
		SQLLEN                    16
		SQLLEN *            0x00E10DAC (0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLDescribeCol 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        2 
		UCHAR *             0x00E10474 
		SWORD                      255 
		SWORD *             0x0012F32C
		SWORD *             0x0012F32E
		SQLLEN *            0x0012F340
		SWORD *             0x0012F332
		SWORD *             0x0012F330

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLDescribeCol  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        2 
		UCHAR *             0x00E10474 [       8] "CURRENCY"
		SWORD                      255 
		SWORD *             0x0012F32C (8)
		SWORD *             0x0012F32E (12)
		SQLLEN *            0x0012F340 (10)
		SWORD *             0x0012F332 (0)
		SWORD *             0x0012F330 (0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLBindCol 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        2 
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_C_CHAR>
		PTR                0x00E10C60
		SQLLEN                    11
		SQLLEN *            0x00E1057C

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLBindCol  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        2 
		SWORD                        1 <SQL_C_CHAR>
		PTR                0x00E10C60
		SQLLEN                    11
		SQLLEN *            0x00E1057C (0)

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLSetStmtOption 
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        9 <SQL_ROWSET_SIZE>
		SQLLEN                  2427

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLSetStmtOption  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30
		UWORD                        9 <SQL_ROWSET_SIZE>
		SQLLEN                  2427

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLFetch 
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	EXIT  SQLFetch  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
		HSTMT               03411B30

Revolution      3f0-448	ENTER SQLDisconnect 
		HDBC                03411598

From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sat Oct 12 10:46:01 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves =?iso-8859-1?Q?Copp=E9?=)
Date: Sat Oct 12 10:46:01 2002
Subject: Date Items
Message-ID: <p05111700b9cdf2a96ba7@[10.0.1.204]>

Hi,


I experiment a strange behavior

I use a French system Mac OS X 10.1.5



in continental date system, "05/06/1927" =
june the fifth of 1927

When I type the following code :

set useSystemDate to true
put "05/06/1927" into startDate
convert startDate to dateitems
set useSystemDate to false
answer startDate


the answer is "2027,06,05,0,0,7"
I watch "1927,06,05,0,0,7"

so the person with this birthdate is 100 years younger (not yet born !!)
Fine !!!!

How can I get the good answer !!!!!

Any idea ???

Thanks for your help
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be


From Yennie at aol.com  Sat Oct 12 11:16:01 2002
From: Yennie at aol.com (Yennie at aol.com)
Date: Sat Oct 12 11:16:01 2002
Subject: [OT] Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution 
Message-ID: <138.15eb21c7.2ad9a35c@aol.com>

OK... I've been holding back until I had something specific to add here. 
These discussions tend to reach fanatical levels, so I hope we can discuss it 
all the way through in a reasonable manner.

A couple of things struck me as true. For starters, let me point out that I 
work in several languages. I choose the one most appropriate for the job. My 
current project is a mingling of PHP, C/C++, Java, and MetaCard (Rev). As far 
as total code size, it's about 85% MetaCard, 10% C/C++, 4% Java and 1% PHP 
(actually one medium sized script).

For me, the following things set MetaCard aside from REALBasic FOR MY WORK:

As Scott pointed out, many of "us" that write externals for MetaCard are too 
busy or otherwise motivated to release them to the community. Personally, 
I've found it easy to write several: on the short list I've worked on VXCMD 
(the Valentina external), a text stemming external, an AIAT external, an SSL 
external, a movie rotation external, and yes... an HTML rendering external. 
Throw in 3 or 4 I can't mention for one reason or another, several 
experiments, some GPL stuff...

Wanna go deeper? Scott even licenses embedded MetaCard libraries. If I ever 
decide I need a MetaCard Apache module, I'll buy a license and whip one up. 
I've practically got open source and I don't have to compile the source!

Anyway, my point is: externals are easy to write, they DO exist, they DO fit 
squarely into the ordinary scripting language... there just hasn't been a 
market for them because 
a) people like me write them for themselves
b) they aren't in high demand anyway
c) (as Scott pointed out), they aren't as useful unless they are compiled for 
several platforms.

One case in point: Rev's database support. External! But here's the kicker: 
the external is an equal citizen with other scripting commands. For me, this 
has a certain valuable consequence. I have a project based on VXCMD, which 
preceeded RevDB by many months. If I ever decide that I need to switch to 
MySQL, I wrote a script wrapper in 2 hours that does the trick of translating 
from Valentina() calls to RevDB(). How's that for flexibility?

I can't think of a solitary plugin in REALBasic which I am jealous of. Is 
their wide availability a good thing? Of course!!! Is REALBasic a good tool 
for the right project? Of course!!! If I couldn't write externals myself, 
would it make a difference? YES.

Still... what I keep thinking here is of a very familiar debate.
Windows has more applications.
I own a Mac.
Go figure.

FWIW,
Brian
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From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Oct 12 12:04:06 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:04:06 2002
Subject: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CCA0A4.37AD3%lrivers@realsoftware.com>
References: <B9CCA0A4.37AD3%lrivers@realsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9cdf5a1d119@[216.229.107.98]>

>This is where the Mac shines versus Windows, in my opinion.

Loren, et al:

I owned an original 64K IBM PC, but left the Intel world before 
Windows.  In retrospect, it would be a lot easier for me to respond 
if I had as much experience supporting Windows users as I have 
supporting Mac users.

While it seems to me Windows users encounter more difficulties with 
installation & reconfiguration issues than Mac users, I have seen 
little direct evidence that they have more difficulty learning or 
using software.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Oct 12 12:04:18 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:04:18 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOCEJICHAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOCEJICHAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302b9cdfba33a71@[216.229.107.98]>

>One thing I do admire about Windows, is the lack of a 'holy ordained look'
>(just my opinion).

I'm beginning to develop an appreciation for that myself, Chipp.  But 
I see almost as much concern for a better XP look & feel as for 
improved OSX l&f on this list.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Oct 12 12:04:29 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:04:29 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs.
 Revolution)
In-Reply-To: <B9CD2087.1E1A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <B9CD2087.1E1A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100303b9cdfe41d7ce@[216.229.107.98]>

>If you know of an application that is popular, runs on at least two
>platforms, and takes significant liberties with the native UI, I'd love to
>take a look at it.

Hi Richard,

At the moment I can only give you item 3.  As soon as my HyperCard to 
Revolution conversion is completed (1 Jan 2003?), I can give you 
items 2 & 3.  My application has a limited market (wineries); so it 
will never gain "popularity" awards...except perhaps within the 
industry.  http://www.oenolog.com/

What I have done is to reduce a very complicated activity into a 
series of point and click actions that can be completed without 
typing on the keyboard.  Looking at competitors' products, I don't 
think the functionality can be replicated in a standard menu-driven 
application without suffering significant setbacks in ease of 
learning, navigation, and use.

I'm not sure how this fits into your research, but I suggest you 
focus some time on the issue of pull down & select vs point & click. 
I watched a lot of non programmers design stacks in my days chairing 
the local HyperCard SIG, and I'd be willing to bet at least 8 out of 
10 chose button-driven interfaces over menu-driven ones.  I have 
archived somewhere several hundred stacks I downloaded from AOL for 
Jacque Gay, and I would be willing to wager that, of all stacks not 
created by Apple, at least 75% more contain Next/Previous buttons 
than contain Next/Previous menuItems.  Most major apps now supplement 
pull-down menus with point-&-click palettes, and point-&-click is 
basic to web browsing.

The pull-down menu has been the mainstay of the GUI for over a 
quarter of a century.  It's time for something better.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Oct 12 12:14:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:14:01 2002
Subject: Date Items
In-Reply-To: <p05111700b9cdf2a96ba7@[10.0.1.204]>
References: <p05111700b9cdf2a96ba7@[10.0.1.204]>
Message-ID: <a05100304b9ce05487e85@[216.229.107.98]>

>How can I get the good answer !!!!!

Salut Yves!

Create the dateItem string yourself from the birth date:

get birthYear&comma&birthMonth&comma&birthDay&",0,0,0,0"

Assuming birthYear includes the century, that's it.

If you need the correct day of week in item seven,

convert it to dateItems

following the first statement will do the job.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Oct 12 12:20:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:20:00 2002
Subject: Date Items
References: <p05111700b9cdf2a96ba7@[10.0.1.204]>
Message-ID: <03e201c27212$19c05c90$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Yves,

Check out the "centuryCutoff" property... perhaps that will do what you
want.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Yves Copp?" <yvescoppe at skynet.be>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:43 AM
Subject: Date Items


> Hi,
>
>
> I experiment a strange behavior
>
> I use a French system Mac OS X 10.1.5
>
>
>
> in continental date system, "05/06/1927" =
> june the fifth of 1927
>
> When I type the following code :
>
> set useSystemDate to true
> put "05/06/1927" into startDate
> convert startDate to dateitems
> set useSystemDate to false
> answer startDate
>
>
> the answer is "2027,06,05,0,0,7"
> I watch "1927,06,05,0,0,7"
>
> so the person with this birthdate is 100 years younger (not yet born !!)
> Fine !!!!
>
> How can I get the good answer !!!!!
>
> Any idea ???
>
> Thanks for your help
> --
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
>
> Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jeanne at runrev.com  Sat Oct 12 12:33:00 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:33:00 2002
Subject: Date Items
In-Reply-To: <p05111700b9cdf2a96ba7@[10.0.1.204]>
Message-ID: <v03130307b9ce07ff7538@[10.0.1.2]>

At 8:43 AM -0700 10/12/2002, Yves Copp? wrote:
>set useSystemDate to true
>put "05/06/1927" into startDate
>convert startDate to dateitems
>set useSystemDate to false
>answer startDate
>
>the answer is "2027,06,05,0,0,7"
>I watch "1927,06,05,0,0,7"
>
>so the person with this birthdate is 100 years younger (not yet born !!)
>Fine !!!!

;-)

If you set the centuryCutoff to 02 (or any number less than 27), you will
get the correct result of 1927. I think this is a bug (if you have 4-digit
years turned on then the system date should respect them and not ignore the
century), but this will work around it and avoid making people 100 years
too young.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sat Oct 12 12:52:01 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves =?iso-8859-1?Q?Copp=E9?=)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:52:01 2002
Subject: Date Items
In-Reply-To: <03e201c27212$19c05c90$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <p05111700b9cdf2a96ba7@[10.0.1.204]>
 <03e201c27212$19c05c90$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <p05111700b9ce10eb830e@[10.0.1.204]>

>Yves,
>
>Check out the "centuryCutoff" property... perhaps that will do what you
>want.
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>


A command I didn't know and which does exactly what I hoped.

Thanks.
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be


From john at davidjohndowns.com  Sat Oct 12 15:14:01 2002
From: john at davidjohndowns.com (D. John Downs)
Date: Sat Oct 12 15:14:01 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <200210120318.XAA06776@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9CDE05F.8D5%john@davidjohndowns.com>

On 10.11.02 10:18 PM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> So if Rev doesn't do something you want, find a C library and hack
> yourself together an external.

Who has the time to learn to program C?  That's why we picked an xTalk in
the first place.

-- 
D. John Downs               http://www.davidjohndowns.com




From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Oct 12 15:44:00 2002
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat Oct 12 15:44:00 2002
Subject: Speech with Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <a05111b00b9cd674a0aeb@[68.34.213.220]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0210121336300.9696-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Yes, indeed there are, including some of my students who are choosing to
use Rev this term for their projects.  Speech -- because it can be done in
Hypercard -- is a requirement.  I've told them that they can use Rev
because I know there's supposed to be a workaround for Windows speech, but
that it's up to them to find out how to do it.

I'm hoping someone will answer the question as well, for their sake ;-)

Judy

On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, curry wrote:

> I assume there are surely some Revolution users who use
> text-to-speech in cross-platform projects?  I would really appreciate
> your tips if anyone knows a good way.



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Oct 12 15:46:01 2002
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat Oct 12 15:46:01 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs. Revolution)
In-Reply-To: <B9CD2087.1E1A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0210121339200.9696-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Does Bryce count?

Judy

On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> If you know of an application that is popular, runs on at least two
> platforms, and takes significant liberties with the native UI, I'd love to
> take a look at it.



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Sat Oct 12 15:55:01 2002
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Sat Oct 12 15:55:01 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs. Revolution)
In-Reply-To: <a05100303b9cdfe41d7ce@[216.229.107.98]> 
References: <B9CD2087.1E1A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
            <a05100303b9cdfe41d7ce@[216.229.107.98]>
Message-ID: <20021012204932.82237.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Rob, 

So no keyboard driven options?  I am a touch typist, and have little love 
for the mouse. I find it particularly annoying that much of the Web REQUIRES 
mouse actions. I make use of keyboard shortcuts (when available) in all my 
apps. I wish all of them had easy keyboard navigation as well as keyboard 
menu shortcuts. 


Rob Cozens writes:
[snip]
> 3.  My application has a limited market (wineries) 
> 
> What I have done is to reduce a very complicated activity into a series of point and click actions that can be completed without typing on the 
> keyboard.  Looking at competitors' products, I don't think the 
> functionality can be replicated in a standard menu-driven application 
> without suffering significant setbacks in ease of learning, navigation, 
> and use.
 


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Oct 12 16:15:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat Oct 12 16:15:01 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0210121339200.9696-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <B9CE07D5.15651%troy@rpsystems.net>


>> If you know of an application that is popular, runs on at least two
>> platforms, and takes significant liberties with the native UI, I'd love to
>> take a look at it.
> Does Bryce count?
> 
> Judy
> 

Personally, I would say Bryce counts, although I'd add that I don't believe
that its interface is very good, or that it can be attributed to its
success. In fact, Kai Krause, while he is undeniably a true artist, is a
perfect example of over-doing an interface. Many of the programs that came
from that company were not usable in a practical, professional environment.
While the underlying engines had remarkable power and capability, I have
never before experienced such lack of usability.

We constantly joke about that sort of design mentality - "of course it makes
sense that if you want to rotate the background you have to wiggle your
mouse back and forth over the little 3D pyramid that only appears after the
program thinks you've become a level 2 master of psychedelic gradient
blends." The interface itself is a true obstacle to productivity.

Bryce has any level of success because it is powerful - and despite its
interface. The same can be said for Poser and its ilk. None of those
programs are recognized very well within the professional graphics community
- even though they have technology and horsepower that says they could have
been. Those professionals who do use them... generally do so "on the sly",
because they are considered "consumer software" - due entirely to the
non-standard interfaces they have. The interface itself presents an
inhibitor to professional workflow.

Yes. I would say that Bryce is a perfect example. Great software, beautiful
artistic interface. Under recognized for what it can actually do. Which is
too bad, because the results possible from those tools are quite amazing.
Tools like that, with the same capabilities, but with a more standard
interface would do much better in the professional graphics communities.

My $.02
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From sjoerdoptland at s2theatertechniek.nl  Sat Oct 12 16:16:08 2002
From: sjoerdoptland at s2theatertechniek.nl (Sjoerd Op 't Land)
Date: Sat Oct 12 16:16:08 2002
Subject: ODBC connectivity in CGI
Message-ID: <B9CE552C.677A%sjoerdoptland@s2theatertechniek.nl>

Did anyone manage to let a MetaTalk/Transcript CGI-script talk to an ODBC
database?

I would think of a continuous running standalone that talks to the database
when it gets a command for that from a CGI-script. Did anyone make such a
standalone already? Or another solution?

Thanks in advance for everything that might help,
Sjoerd



From RGould8 at aol.com  Sat Oct 12 17:59:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Sat Oct 12 17:59:01 2002
Subject: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?
Message-ID: <9c.27bb00b2.2ada01ce@aol.com>

Ahhh - - - perhaps that's the problem.   I was looking for an Applescript 
solution in OS 8/9 that would set the user's networking to DHCP.   So, if 
this was designed to run in 10, then that sheds some light on the issue.

In the long-run, I'll need to do this on both Mac OS 9 _and_ Mac OS X.   I 
was assuming that the technique would be radically different, with OS X 
relying on more unix-calls.   Resources on the web that detail how to script 
the networking control pane are few and far between, it seems.

From macbox at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 12 18:04:00 2002
From: macbox at earthlink.net (Mac Dude)
Date: Sat Oct 12 18:04:00 2002
Subject: Setting Parameters for PlainTalk Speech
In-Reply-To: <200210121601.MAA19701@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <888E9ED2-DE35-11D6-9F19-003065991D92@earthlink.net>

First off, Thanks to both Jeanne and Dave Cragg for help with creating 
a folder on an FTP server!

Now, I realize this is really an AppleScript question, but i tried an 
AS mail list and got nothing, so since I know there's a knowledgeable 
bunch here...

Under Mac OS 9 I used to be able to set the Rate, Pitch and Modulation 
of a voice by embedding some simple commands ("[[rate <rate>]]", 
"[[pBas <pitch>]]", and "[[pMod <modulation>]]"), the latter 2 no 
longer seem to work under OS X, only the rate command works.  Can 
anyone tell me how to control the voice settings?



From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Oct 12 19:02:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Oct 12 19:02:00 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <B9CDE05F.8D5%john@davidjohndowns.com>
Message-ID: <2D48B15E-DE3E-11D6-856A-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Saturday, October 12, 2002, at 01:21  PM, D. John Downs wrote:

>> So if Rev doesn't do something you want, find a C library and hack
>> yourself together an external.
>
> Who has the time to learn to program C?  That's why we picked an xTalk 
> in
> the first place.

Looking at your website, it appears you are a musician. May you never 
have to learn C!

Nearly all professional programmers learn C eventually, out of 
necessity. Note I'm not saying that's right or good or that one's time 
could not be better utilized. :-) It just seems to be the case.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alanIra9 at mac.com  Sat Oct 12 19:31:01 2002
From: alanIra9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Sat Oct 12 19:31:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <20021010145705.88050.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8601557E-DE41-11D6-9924-000393158950@mac.com>

Hi to Ken, David, Jan, Yves and all others who responded to Tim Hart's 
questions regarding the techniques for saving data generated out of 
standalone apps built in RunRev.

As a Hypercard user back to 1987, the idea of a standalone stack is 
pretty much foreign to me, even though I think HC was supposed to have 
had some form of this capability since back in version 2.2.  Most of 
what I used HC for was as a number of business database applications, 
each usually with several thousands of cards but no fancy stuff like 
multimedia content.  In combination with Reports DataPro's printing, 
high speed search and index capabilities I was pretty much able to get 
this combination to do everything that I needed to get done in my 
business.  And since it was for MY business, over the years, I was 
constantly tweaking the interface, performance and output as the need 
would arise.  In any case all of my data was stored in my "application" 
stack - with HC always running in the background which also allowed me 
convenient access to other useful stackware created by others.

In the short time I've been playing with RunRev I've come to believe 
that over time I will be able to generate within the RunRev environment, 
most if not all of the "off-the-shelf" tools and goodies, available as 
"externals" for HC and the absence of which I had lamented on the list a 
few weeks ago.

As a result and in good faith reliance on the RunRev team's  promise of 
a "soon to come" report generator, I'm now just about ready to start 
thinking about recreating the business apps which have become absolutely 
essential to my business.  I said "recreate" rather than duplicate since 
RunRev clearly has far more inherent capabilities than did poor 
HyperCard, so horribly neglected by Apple.

So here's my dilemma, what is the most efficient strategy for storing 
the data of my RunRev  apps; and how do I actually implement such a 
strategy.

Topic 1:
Postponing the question of implementation for a moment, I'm am sure that 
I do not understand the metaphor of how the external files (stacks or 
text) are actually utilized.  In a simple database arrangement with a 
standalone as a front end, is all the data from the external file loaded 
at once , in effect creating a new card for each record when the file is 
loaded with say a thousand or so cards now held in memory?  Or is the 
standalone only comprised of one (or more) "template" cards which load 
the data stored in the external file one at a time as needed and stores 
newly created or revised data one record at a time in a similar manner?  
If the latter is the case, how would one go about searching and indexing 
such data; reasonably straightforward tasks IF the data is stored in the 
stack as in a traditional Hypercard arrangement?

Topic 2:
As to implementation, I have checked out the Revolution documentation 
suggested by David Vaughn but I can't seem to find the "considerable 
guidance" on the topic which he promised. What the heck am I missing?  
Is there a small step-by-step tutorial stack that would explain the 
concepts and illustrate the techniques of just how this is 
accomplished?  Such a tutorial stack need only contain a few fields and 
10 or  20 cards  (or records as the case may be) to do this.  It seems 
to me that such a basic issue should have been addressed in clearer and 
more complete manner in the documentation, but I can't seem to find this 
in either the online or printed documentation.

I would also like to see a similar tutorial stack illustrating how 
RunRev can be used as a front end for a FileMaker database which I 
surmise could be used to store, search and print/report the data as 
needed.  When I previously asked for this on the list I was told this 
was easy and referred to 1 or 2 websites, but I was not able to locate 
the promised Rev to FileMaker sample stack.

Significantly ore detailed help on both of these topics would be greatly 
appreciated.

Topic 3:
As I believe I mentioned earlier, I have been working on a variety 
useful user interface tools which are essentially involve a bit of 
"reverse engineering" many of the external goodies provided for 
Hypercard by the Reports DataPro package.  Some of these are used to 
input specific data types into any given field, such as several calender 
dialogs and user editable "askList" functions.  Others provide a number 
of search and sort as well as indexing functions.  Those of you who have 
worked with Reports DataPro will know the kind of stuff I'm talking 
about - a group of very useful tools, implemented as externals, with a 
consistent user interface and scripting approach, and which we did NOT 
have to build ourselves since they were already available in a nice neat 
reasonably priced package.

The good news is that with a little thought I have indeed found that 
most of these goodies can also be implemented as RunRev stacks which can 
be added as substacks to most RunRev projects and called as modal 
dialogs.

Aside from getting the tools I need, creating such items have served as 
a great tutorial in using Revolution to do things simply not possible in 
Hypercard.  Once again, many thanks to those list members who were kind 
enough to answer my newbie technique questions.  And yet this activity 
has led me to another question on the topic of where certain data should 
be saved.

My "askList" function, which I've "reverse engineered" from the NTFList 
function (external) from Reports DataPro provides a good example.  This 
is basically a list function which returns the chosen item or items to 
the field from which the modal dialog is called.  The list itself may be 
user editable and the contents stored as a text resource of the stack.  
In my RunRev version the list function is a substack called as a modal 
dialog, with the list contents, prompt phrase, etc. stored as custom 
properties of the field (in the mainstack)which called the function, 
usually from a mouseUp handler.  This way the list contents, prompt and 
edit permission for the list function change dynamically depending on 
the field from which it is called.

So here's the question: can dynamically changing custom properties be 
saved within a standalone application?  If not (as I suspect), and 
saving changes to custom properties are subject to the same prohibition 
as ordinary data within a standalone, what is an efficient way to store 
these external to the standalone and easily access them when they are 
needed?  My guess is that, like many things in RunRev there is a 
relatively simple answer to this question, but, at least to me, it is 
neither obvious nor intuitive.  Once again detailed help would be 
appreciated.

Topic 4:
In the course of developing my first stacks I have noted two phenomena 
on which I would like a little help.  The first of these: when I 
double-click on a RunRev stack when the Revolution environment is not 
already running, the stack which has NOT been built as a standalone, 
opens essentially as a type  "standalone" with none of the resources of 
the Rev development environment.  The only menu available is titled 
"Revolution" and the only applicable menu item is "Quit".

This is not the behavior I would normally expect from a Mac 
application - i.e. when double-clicked, a Hypercard stack would normally 
open the Hypercard application with all available features consistent 
with the User Level set in the Home stack or modified by a set userLevel 
script within the stack being opened.

I have also noted that whenever I first start Revolution the application 
opens with the Pointer tool as the default setting.  What's going on 
here?  Is there a simple way to make double-clicking on a stack open the 
Revolution application with the browse tool selected as the default 
setting?  What I'm trying to achieve is to have Revolution open in a 
mode roughly equivalent to the "Typing" or "Painting" user level setting 
in Hypercard.  The idea here is to perhaps be able to use a Starter Kit 
version of RunRev as runtime engine for stacks that have not been built 
as standalone applications - but not to give unauthorized users the 
capability of mucking around with the inner workings.

Coda:
So there it is (for now).  I'm sorry to have been so long winded but I 
wanted make my questions sufficiently detailed so that the members of 
the list would know exactly the kind of help I was looking for.

Thanks in advance for your patience and help.

Alan Gayne	



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Oct 12 20:08:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat Oct 12 20:08:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <8601557E-DE41-11D6-9924-000393158950@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B9CE3E5A.15670%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/12/02 8:20 PM, "Alan Gayne" <alanIra9 at mac.com> wrote:

> I have also noted that whenever I first start Revolution the application
> opens with the Pointer tool as the default setting.  What's going on
> here?  Is there a simple way to make double-clicking on a stack open the
> Revolution application with the browse tool selected as the default
> setting?  What I'm trying to achieve is to have Revolution open in a
> mode roughly equivalent to the "Typing" or "Painting" user level setting
> in Hypercard.  The idea here is to perhaps be able to use a Starter Kit
> version of RunRev as runtime engine for stacks that have not been built
> as standalone applications - but not to give unauthorized users the
> capability of mucking around with the inner workings.

Wow Alan,
That is a lot for one post. Let me preface by saying I have no Hypercard
experience at all, so seeing your questions only makes me say "oh, it must
appear so similar that people mistake it for the same thing." So, first -
don't do that. While Rev shares a lot with HC (from what I've read) it
really does want to work a bit differently. At least at the publishing and
distribution phase.

So, I'm not going to tackle all of your questions, at least not in this
email, but I'll start with this one.

I don't think using the starter kit as an engine for the clients is a good
idea. There is no need to do so, and it serves them no advantage, unless you
intend for them to edit your program. You can easily build a "player app" of
your own, or simply distribute standalones. There really is nothing to it.
You could do something as simple as create a stack that does nothing but
open a dialog which says "What stack do you want to run?" and allows the
users to select a stack file. That stack file would then be put into a "open
stack" message internally in your player. Build your player as a standalone,
and voila - instant player app. Really nothing to it, and it avoids your
messy starter kit problems entirely.

In addition - now, you see, that stack that you are running? It is an
external stack that is NOT the standalone... you see where this is going?
You can save THAT file. You can save its properties, and field data with a
simple save stack command.

I think that your problems are more the fact that you need to let some of
what you have learned before go. The scripting knowledge all still holds -
the distribution methods are new. Perhaps give what I've described here a
try, and let us know what parts are still hanging you up. I'll bet the light
comes on, and you are off to the races before you know it.

Cheers.
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From alanIra9 at mac.com  Sat Oct 12 21:05:01 2002
From: alanIra9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Sat Oct 12 21:05:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <B9CE3E5A.15670%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <1D6786F0-DE4F-11D6-9924-000393158950@mac.com>

Tony:

Many thanks for the prompt response and the good idea about creating my 
own player standalone.  That seems like a very good start toward my 
formulating a strategy more in keeping with the RunRev paradigm rather 
than my old HC framework.

Kind regard,

Alan
On Saturday, October 12, 2002, at 09:02  PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> On 10/12/02 8:20 PM, "Alan Gayne" <alanIra9 at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> I have also noted that whenever I first start Revolution the 
>> application
>> opens with the Pointer tool as the default setting.  What's going on
>> here?  Is there a simple way to make double-clicking on a stack open 
>> the
>> Revolution application with the browse tool selected as the default
>> setting?  What I'm trying to achieve is to have Revolution open in a
>> mode roughly equivalent to the "Typing" or "Painting" user level 
>> setting
>> in Hypercard.  The idea here is to perhaps be able to use a Starter Kit
>> version of RunRev as runtime engine for stacks that have not been built
>> as standalone applications - but not to give unauthorized users the
>> capability of mucking around with the inner workings.
>
> Wow Alan,
> That is a lot for one post. Let me preface by saying I have no Hypercard
> experience at all, so seeing your questions only makes me say "oh, it 
> must
> appear so similar that people mistake it for the same thing." So, 
> first -
> don't do that. While Rev shares a lot with HC (from what I've read) it
> really does want to work a bit differently. At least at the publishing 
> and
> distribution phase.
>
> So, I'm not going to tackle all of your questions, at least not in this
> email, but I'll start with this one.
>
> I don't think using the starter kit as an engine for the clients is a 
> good
> idea. There is no need to do so, and it serves them no advantage, 
> unless you
> intend for them to edit your program. You can easily build a "player 
> app" of
> your own, or simply distribute standalones. There really is nothing to 
> it.
> You could do something as simple as create a stack that does nothing but
> open a dialog which says "What stack do you want to run?" and allows the
> users to select a stack file. That stack file would then be put into a 
> "open
> stack" message internally in your player. Build your player as a 
> standalone,
> and voila - instant player app. Really nothing to it, and it avoids your
> messy starter kit problems entirely.
>
> In addition - now, you see, that stack that you are running? It is an
> external stack that is NOT the standalone... you see where this is 
> going?
> You can save THAT file. You can save its properties, and field data 
> with a
> simple save stack command.
>
> I think that your problems are more the fact that you need to let some 
> of
> what you have learned before go. The scripting knowledge all still 
> holds -
> the distribution methods are new. Perhaps give what I've described 
> here a
> try, and let us know what parts are still hanging you up. I'll bet the 
> light
> comes on, and you are off to the races before you know it.
>
> Cheers.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Oct 12 23:22:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat Oct 12 23:22:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
References: <8601557E-DE41-11D6-9924-000393158950@mac.com>
Message-ID: <045901c2726e$9aebaa20$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Alan,

You have a lot of questions, and I'll try to answer them as best as I can.
I've used xTalk languages since HyperCard 1.0 so I know where you are coming
from... the idea of a "standalone" really didn't hit the scene until almost
the end of HyperCard's existence; so many people were just using the Home
Stack as a launching ground for getting to their own stacks, that it didn't
seem to be very important at the time, since HC was distributed for free
with new macs, you could be assured that everyone had it, so why make a
standalone? Why not just give 'em your stack and let them double-click it?

However times have changed since then, and we're using a tool that allows us
not only to distribute applications that look and act like "real" apps
(something HC had a lot of trouble with), but also across platforms as well.

So here goes my comments:

> Topic 1:
> Postponing the question of implementation for a moment, I'm am sure that
> I do not understand the metaphor of how the external files (stacks or
> text) are actually utilized.  In a simple database arrangement with a
> standalone as a front end, is all the data from the external file loaded
> at once , in effect creating a new card for each record when the file is
> loaded with say a thousand or so cards now held in memory?  Or is the
> standalone only comprised of one (or more) "template" cards which load
> the data stored in the external file one at a time as needed and stores
> newly created or revised data one record at a time in a similar manner?
> If the latter is the case, how would one go about searching and indexing
> such data; reasonably straightforward tasks IF the data is stored in the
> stack as in a traditional Hypercard arrangement?

OK. Think about a simple address book stack (like the one that came with
HC). All the data was stored on cards, and if you made a new card, filled in
the fields and quit, your data was saved. Simple. However now, if you make a
standalone, you can't modify the contents of the standalone, so how can you
save your data? There are a number of methods, but the simplest one is as
follows: Using the Address Book stack as an example for a moment, imaging
that your "standalone" is nothing more than an application (like the
HyperCard application was) to launch your stack. So if you create *two*
stacks, one small one that you will turn into a standalone application, and
a second one that will be "opened" from the standalone and contains your
Address Book cards, you are set... the application can't modify itself
(which is good since there's no need to in this example anyway), and the
plain "stack" which is opened by the standalone, can modify itself as much
as it likes. So your "stub" stack simply says:

  on openStack
    open stack "Address Book.mc"
  end openStack

In your Address Book stack, the only thing you'll need to do a bit
differently than in the HC days is that you need to explicitly save changes
to your stack before quitting, with "save this stack", otherwise changes
won't be saved. However the construction of the Address Book stack is nearly
identical to the original HC one (background fields that are shared across
cards, etc.).

The concept of saving data in external files would be the same as in HC..
that is, you can open/close and read/write to text files to save data,
however this is usually used just for simple text storage (initialization
settings, configuration data, export data, etc.). It's more complicated to
map an external text file to the field structure of a multi-card
database-like stack (although you can do it with delimited data). The nice
thing about Rev in this case is that you can shortcut the reading and
writing of text files with the "put url into" and "put into url" commands.
So instead of this:

  open file "Mydata.txt"
  read from file "Mydata.txt" until eof
  put it into tData
  close file "Mydata.txt"

You have this:

  put url ("file:Mydata.txt") into tData

And the opposite is true:

  put tData into url ("file:MyData.txt")

... to write.

The nice thing about Rev is that you also have access to saving data in an
actual database (mySQL, ODBC, etc.) using the revDB external... if your data
management needs are high, you might look into this.

> I would also like to see a similar tutorial stack illustrating how
> RunRev can be used as a front end for a FileMaker database which I
> surmise could be used to store, search and print/report the data as
> needed.  When I previously asked for this on the list I was told this
> was easy and referred to 1 or 2 websites, but I was not able to locate
> the promised Rev to FileMaker sample stack.
>
> Significantly ore detailed help on both of these topics would be greatly
> appreciated.

First of all, I don't know if Rev can "front" for a FileMaker database
(unless it is done through AppleScript or if it is ODBC compliant... I
haven't used FileMaker since FileMaker Pro, so you can tell how dated I am).
I *do* know, however, that it can front for an ODBC database... I wrote a
'head-to-head' between Rev and Visual Basic that communciated with an ODBC
database. I is completely open so you can examine the source code. It is
normally at:

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/info/compare/index.html

although I just went there, and for some reason it's not there...
(Kevin/Heather? Can you tell me why it's not there?)

Anyway, there are people such as Tuviah Snyder who are more eloquent at
explaining the ins and outs of using the revDB external, so I'll leave this
in the hands of others more qualified. I agree with you that there should be
tutorial stack on this, and it may very well be in the next version of Rev,
which should be out this year (I believe).

> Topic 3:
> So here's the question: can dynamically changing custom properties be
> saved within a standalone application?  If not (as I suspect), and
> saving changes to custom properties are subject to the same prohibition
> as ordinary data within a standalone, what is an efficient way to store
> these external to the standalone and easily access them when they are
> needed?  My guess is that, like many things in RunRev there is a
> relatively simple answer to this question, but, at least to me, it is
> neither obvious nor intuitive.  Once again detailed help would be
> appreciated.

The answer is similar to Topic 1... you either (a) save custom properties in
a stack that is accessed by a standalone, or (b) you can store your
"components" as separate stacks which are called by either a standalone or
other stack, or (c) you can store your components" as a substack of a stack
that is accessed by a standalone. Something like an "ask list" utility would
be better served as a separate stack that one did a "start using" on, so
that in a script that said "askList <stuff>", it would be sent to the "ask
list" stack so it could field it. If this is not clear, let me know and I'll
expand on what I mean.

> Topic 4:
> This is not the behavior I would normally expect from a Mac
> application - i.e. when double-clicked, a Hypercard stack would normally
> open the Hypercard application with all available features consistent
> with the User Level set in the Home stack or modified by a set userLevel
> script within the stack being opened.

True, although if you think about it from the perspective that a Rev stack
is a "document" of the Rev "application", it makes more sense.
Double-clicking a Word document launches Word and opens the document for
editing... it doesn't go into Preview mode. Similarly, double-clicking a Rev
document launches Rev and opens the stack for editing with the pointer tool.
>
> I have also noted that whenever I first start Revolution the application
> opens with the Pointer tool as the default setting.  What's going on
> here?  Is there a simple way to make double-clicking on a stack open the
> Revolution application with the browse tool selected as the default
> setting?  What I'm trying to achieve is to have Revolution open in a
> mode roughly equivalent to the "Typing" or "Painting" user level setting
> in Hypercard.  The idea here is to perhaps be able to use a Starter Kit
> version of RunRev as runtime engine for stacks that have not been built
> as standalone applications - but not to give unauthorized users the
> capability of mucking around with the inner workings.

I agree with Troy that you don't want to think in the HC mindset right
now... i.e. that you give people a kind of Player and then distribute your
stacks with it. A Player idea has been bounced around on the boards, but
until a "real" Player is created, you should probably think about
distributing standalones only, or creating your own kind of standalone
"player"(see Topic 1).

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From curry at kagi.com  Sat Oct 12 23:45:01 2002
From: curry at kagi.com (curry)
Date: Sat Oct 12 23:45:01 2002
Subject: Speech with Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <200210122201.SAA28764@www.runrev.com>
References: <200210122201.SAA28764@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b01b9cea62c4e24@[68.34.213.220]>

To avoid any confusion my inquiries on this topic might otherwise 
lead to (though not entirely my own fault, but rather because 
Microsoft didn't update their 4.0 SAPI web page and I didn't have XP 
yet to try myself) I've heard from Tuviah and he said, yes, the 
external works with XP as long as the 4.0 SAPI and voices are 
installed. That's really great to hear. So Speech for Windows--all 
Windows--is no problem. All  right!

Curry



From gslj at intergate.ca  Sun Oct 13 01:11:01 2002
From: gslj at intergate.ca (Gareth Jones)
Date: Sun Oct 13 01:11:01 2002
Subject: running command-line programs from rev
Message-ID: <a05111a01b9cebcb12e82@[216.113.201.77]>

Hello, everyone

I've been reading about a command-line program that Apple included 
with OS X called "ditto." It has all the capabilities needed for a 
nice backup program. Revolution, on the other hand, has all the GUI 
needed to make a nice front end for it. Is there some way to send a 
command from Revolution to a command-line program like ditto?

-Gareth Jones


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Oct 13 01:13:01 2002
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (pixelbird at interisland.net)
Date: Sun Oct 13 01:13:01 2002
Subject: A good project for Rev?
Message-ID: <200210130605.g9D65Bb01651@lopez.interisland.net>

Hello group,

I do landscape maintainance in the season. One of my
accounts is a resort that has never had a landscape
maintainance management program, the results of which is
that much of it fell into a weedy, tangled, out-of control
mess before I got to it. They once tried to put 2000 trout
into the pond...guess what happened...

I'm getting software for dealing with my business, but
_they_ need some simple documentation. Vertical aerial views
of the property with plat overlays showing the undergound
wiring, irrigation plumbing, outdoor lighting, permanent
tree and shrub identifiers, curtain drains, and, especially,
the pond. Then I'll need to tie all those elements (and
more) to maintainance schedules and product guides
(fertilizers, nutrient and pest prevention ammendments,
etc.), labor, equipment, and supply costs.

This stuff will be repleat with photos, area maps, notes and
suggestions, historical documentation (dates and kinds of
fertilizer applications to specific areas, for example).

What I'll need to do is deal with stuff in my landscape
software, then pass pertinent info to their Rev app to keep
it updated. That could be done online, I think. No deep dark
secrets going on.   

That's probably way more detail than you wanted to see, but
do you think it would make a good Rev project?

TIA,
Ken N.








---------------------------------------------
           The Computer Place
        Info = info at interisland.net
        http://www.compplace.com/




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Oct 13 01:51:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun Oct 13 01:51:01 2002
Subject: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?
References: <9c.27bb00b2.2ada01ce@aol.com>
Message-ID: <047c01c27283$6f8032b0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Rob,

I checked the code on another machine and it turns out that in some cases,
the configuration doesn't have a class, and so it fails on the line:

  if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration) then

It's not that "TCPIP v4 configuration" is bad... it just has a problem
getting a class for the config. So it might not be an OS 9/OS X problem
after all. This happened to me on an Airport configuration (which I
discovered by asking for "the name of configuration i of config").

Try wrapping the "if" statement in a try/end try, as in:

repeat with i from 1 to count of configuration of config
  try
    if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration) then
      set cfg to configuration i of config
      set configName to name of config
      exit repeat
    end if
  end try
end repeat

At least this should skip over those configurations that don't have a
class... you might want to trap an "on error" and see what the configuration
name is if you're interested.

Hope his helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: <RGould8 at aol.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?


Ahhh - - - perhaps that's the problem.   I was looking for an Applescript
solution in OS 8/9 that would set the user's networking to DHCP.   So, if
this was designed to run in 10, then that sheds some light on the issue.

In the long-run, I'll need to do this on both Mac OS 9 _and_ Mac OS X.   I
was assuming that the technique would be radically different, with OS X
relying on more unix-calls.   Resources on the web that detail how to script
the networking control pane are few and far between, it seems.

>From what I gather from the script, it appears that there's some sort of
networking database that is being opened up, that contains different
networking settings.   The script appears to go through the list in the
database until it finds the active setting, and attempts to modify it to
"Use
DHCP" - - is that the correct description of what's going on?

If this script is designed to run on OS X - - - can anyone shed light on how
different the OS 9 version would be?

Thanks again for your help - - - this is indeed one of the best Listserve's
I've been on.   Folks here are very helpful and knowledgeable.

- Rob

In a message dated 10/11/02 9:01:45 PM, kray at sonsothunder.com writes:


> Rob,
>
> What version of AppleScript/Mac OS are you using? It is possible that this
> configuration didn't work properly in earlier versions...
>
> The reason I say that is that since I was the original poster of the
> AppleScript (to which Sarah added her valuable additions), and it worked
> for
> me on an iMac running OS 10.1...
>
> Let us know,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RGould8 at aol.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 5:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?
>
>
> Sarah - - - thanks so much for this script. I've hit one stumbling block
> that's keeping it from running, and no one seems to know how to fix it - -
> -
> was wondering if someone on this list might:
>
> The problem is with this line:
>
> if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration)
>
> appleScript is complaining of a type mismatch problem. I thought perhaps
> putting
>
> if (class of configuration i of config) as string is (TCPIP v4
> configuration)
>
> might fix the problem, but that gave me a syntax error. I've only been
> scripting for about 2 months. Would anyone happen to know how to solve
> such
> type-matching errors? The impression I get is that you can't compare a
> string to a class.
>
> - Rob
>
> In a message dated 10/2/02 7:08:18 PM, sarahr at genesearch.com.au writes:
>
> >
> > Hi Rob,
> >
> > Here is Ken's script with an added section that changes the relevant
> > setting to DHCP. As Ken mentioned, this just handles the first TCP
> > configuration it finds, so you might need to add a check for other
> > configs, but it should get you started:
> >
> > set configMethod to ""
> > set configName to ""
> > set cfg to ""
> >
> > tell application "Network Setup Scripting"
> > open database
> > set config to current configuration set
> > repeat with i from 1 to count of configuration of config
> > if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration)
> > then
> > set cfg to configuration i of config
> > set configName to name of config -- so you can check the name
> > to see
> > if it's the right one
> > exit repeat
> > end if
> > end repeat
> > set configMethod to configuration method of cfg
> >
> > try
> > if configMethod ? "DHCP" then
> > begin transaction
> > set protec to get protection of configuration method of cfg
> > if protec = locked then return "Setting is locked"
> > set the configuration method of cfg to DHCP
> > end transaction
> > end if
> > on error errMsg number errNum
> > close database
> > return "Error: " & errMsg & " " & errNum
> > end try
> >
> > close database
> > return "Setting changed to DHCP"
> > end tell
> >
> > Note: there is a line above that uses the Mac's Not-equal sign
> > (option-equal): if configMethod **not-equal** "DHCP" then
> > It may not translate via email. Also beware of long lines wrapping. If
> > you want me to send you the actual script, send me an email off-list.
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 13 02:06:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun Oct 13 02:06:01 2002
Subject: ODBC connectivity in CGI
In-Reply-To: <B9CE552C.677A%sjoerdoptland@s2theatertechniek.nl>
Message-ID: <20021013070003.85516.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sjoerd Op 't Land
<sjoerdoptland at s2theatertechniek.nl> wrote:
> Did anyone manage to let a MetaTalk/Transcript
> CGI-script talk to an ODBC
> database?
> 
> I would think of a continuous running standalone
> that talks to the database
> when it gets a command for that from a CGI-script.
> Did anyone make such a
> standalone already? Or another solution?
> 
> Thanks in advance for everything that might help,
> Sjoerd
> 

Hoi Sjoerd,

On the RunRev newbie forum Gary Rathbone posted a copy
of a modified MCHttpD-stack. This stack serves
web-pages and built-in cgi-scripts, not using the
separate engine that MC/RR provide on their wesites.
I had already been thinking of transforming that into
a full-blown SOAP-server, but I have more ideas than
time unfortunately.
At any rate, you could build a standalone of this,
with all the necessary libraries, make the connections
to the database on startup time, and reply to the
cgi-requests from within the stack.

Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.


=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 13 02:11:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun Oct 13 02:11:00 2002
Subject: running command-line programs from rev
In-Reply-To: <a05111a01b9cebcb12e82@[216.113.201.77]>
Message-ID: <20021013070504.86980.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gareth Jones <gslj at intergate.ca> wrote:
> Hello, everyone
> 
> I've been reading about a command-line program that
> Apple included 
> with OS X called "ditto." It has all the
> capabilities needed for a 
> nice backup program. Revolution, on the other hand,
> has all the GUI 
> needed to make a nice front end for it. Is there
> some way to send a 
> command from Revolution to a command-line program
> like ditto?
> 
> -Gareth Jones
>

Hi Gareth,

Check out the 'shell' function in the Transcript
dictionary. This allows you to send command line
instructions. Example:
  get shell("ls -l -a")
Should get you a directory listing, much like the
"list" view in the Finder, even listing the hidden
files (starting with a period).

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.


=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From gslj at intergate.ca  Sun Oct 13 02:15:01 2002
From: gslj at intergate.ca (Gareth Jones)
Date: Sun Oct 13 02:15:01 2002
Subject: running command-line programs from rev
In-Reply-To: <20021013070504.86980.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021013070504.86980.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05111a02b9cecc72dfa8@[216.113.201.77]>

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll look into that one :-)

-Gareth

>--- Gareth Jones <gslj at intergate.ca> wrote:
>>  Hello, everyone
>>
>>  I've been reading about a command-line program that
>>  Apple included
>>  with OS X called "ditto." It has all the
>>  capabilities needed for a
>>  nice backup program. Revolution, on the other hand,
>>  has all the GUI
>>  needed to make a nice front end for it. Is there
>>  some way to send a
>>  command from Revolution to a command-line program
>>  like ditto?
>>
>>  -Gareth Jones
>>
>
>Hi Gareth,
>
>Check out the 'shell' function in the Transcript
>dictionary. This allows you to send command line
>instructions. Example:
>   get shell("ls -l -a")
>Should get you a directory listing, much like the
>"list" view in the Finder, even listing the hidden
>files (starting with a period).
>
>Hope this helped,
>
>Jan Schenkel.
>
>
>=====
>"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
>time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
>http://faith.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 13 02:22:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun Oct 13 02:22:01 2002
Subject: big pb with standAlone & MySQL
In-Reply-To: <001501c271f5$e8f260c0$6601a8c0@sylvax>
Message-ID: <20021013071551.59844.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sylvain_Le_Gourri?rec
<sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com> wrote:
> hello,
> 
> I really need help.
> 
> I develop a backoffice. Not a very difficult thing
> but I have to be very care about the relationships
> between the standAlone revolution app & MySQL.
> 
> Into the development environment, no pb. So, I build
> the distribution. 
> 
> It arrived that I got a "revdberr, restricted under
> current license" !
> 
> So I decided to write my script again :((
> 
> I have no more error message but only 20 rows are
> retrieved!
> 
> Of course I have a license.
> 
> 
> What can I do? I waste a lot of time with that...
> 
> thanks
> 
> 

Bonjour Sylvain,

Unfortunately the RevDB library sometimes returns that
error when it's not really applicable.
For example, 'revdb_querylist' will return it if you
don't include two empty parameters at the front
{unlike what the Transcript Dictionary shows as
example code).

So it could be that you're bumping into certain syntax
sensitivities that don't show up in the IDE (I've been
bitten by that one in the past in FoxPro).
Can you pinpoint where in the code it happens? Have
you sprinkled "answer <whatever>" constructions at
strategic spots in your handlers?
It's hard to help you if we don't know the exact
circumstances.

I'm confident we can pull you through.

Jan Schenkel.


=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Sun Oct 13 05:01:01 2002
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic Th=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E9?=bault)
Date: Sun Oct 13 05:01:01 2002
Subject: UTF-8 and Revolution
Message-ID: <20021013115314.65FB4A%00000000@laposte.net>

It is possible to decoding the charset UTF-8 with Revolution ?  
(on MacOS X)
Or it is for (the/a) next release ?

Thanks

-- 
Ludovic THEBAULT
(Sorry for my poooor english :-)


From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Sun Oct 13 05:09:01 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Sun Oct 13 05:09:01 2002
Subject: Saving stuff in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <8601557E-DE41-11D6-9924-000393158950@mac.com>
Message-ID: <F6DF8996-DE92-11D6-9867-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Sunday, Oct 13, 2002, at 10:20 Australia/Sydney, Alan Gayne wrote:

> Hi to Ken, David, Jan, Yves and all others who responded to Tim Hart's 
> questions regarding the techniques for saving data generated out of 
> standalone apps built in RunRev.
>
snip

Alan

Troy and Ken seem to me to have given good answers to your questions so 
I have little to add at the moment. Like Ken, I have used HC since 1.0 
and still have one major app I have yet to transfer. However, I know 
now that it will be very different when I rewrite it in Rev because I 
am better adapted to Rev's paradigm. As Troy suggested and you seem to 
have absorbed, one of the early tasks is to shift gears on what an app 
constitutes in the different environments.

On one other matter, since you mentioned me by name in one piece of 
advice, I must offer a small mea culpa: one person's "considerable 
guidance" may be another person's "would you mind not assuming I know 
the answer before I read it?" The section to which I referred plus that 
on Objects and Messages does cover these issues but perhaps more as an 
introduction to experiments to understand than as a complete guidance. 
Still, this thread and the list archives do cover these issues and 
there are many here who will follow Ken and Troy in offering further 
assistance when you need it. Hope your conversions go well for you.

regards
David
>
> Coda:
> So there it is (for now).  I'm sorry to have been so long winded but I 
> wanted make my questions sufficiently detailed so that the members of 
> the list would know exactly the kind of help I was looking for.
>
> Thanks in advance for your patience and help.
>
> Alan Gayne	
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Sun Oct 13 05:11:00 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Sun Oct 13 05:11:00 2002
Subject: running command-line programs from rev
In-Reply-To: <a05111a02b9cecc72dfa8@[216.113.201.77]>
Message-ID: <472CE0A4-DE93-11D6-9867-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Sunday, Oct 13, 2002, at 17:08 Australia/Sydney, Gareth Jones wrote:

> Thanks for the quick reply. I'll look into that one :-)

Gareth

Jan has jumped the gun slightly. You will have a problem if you are 
using 1.1.1. Shell commands in OS X are not supported before 1.5A7. You 
should be OK on this soon.

regards
David
>
> -Gareth
>
>> --- Gareth Jones <gslj at intergate.ca> wrote:
>>>  Hello, everyone
>>>
>>>  I've been reading about a command-line program that
>>>  Apple included
>>>  with OS X called "ditto." It has all the
>>>  capabilities needed for a
>>>  nice backup program. Revolution, on the other hand,
>>>  has all the GUI
>>>  needed to make a nice front end for it. Is there
>>>  some way to send a
>>>  command from Revolution to a command-line program
>>>  like ditto?
>>>
>>>  -Gareth Jones
>>>
>>
>> Hi Gareth,
>>
>> Check out the 'shell' function in the Transcript
>> dictionary. This allows you to send command line
>> instructions. Example:
>>   get shell("ls -l -a")
>> Should get you a directory listing, much like the
>> "list" view in the Finder, even listing the hidden
>> files (starting with a period).
>>
>> Hope this helped,
>>
>> Jan Schenkel.
>>
>>
>> =====
>> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
>> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
>> http://faith.yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com  Sun Oct 13 06:34:01 2002
From: sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sylvain_Le_Gourri=E9rec?=)
Date: Sun Oct 13 06:34:01 2002
Subject: pb with standAlone & MySQL
Message-ID: <00b501c272ab$9273ec80$6601a8c0@sylvax>

Indeed I use answer command...

example.



--------------------------------------------------------
function check_error theMessage  
  
  if char 1 to 6 of theMessage is "Erreur" then
    
    answer theMessage titled "Message d'erreur" with "OK"
    
    return "Erreur" & cr & theMessage
    
  end if
  
  
  return theMessage
  
  
end check_error



-------------------------------------------------------------
function connect_mysql_myBase

get revdb_connect("MySQL", myHost, myBase, myUser, myPassword)

if it is not an integer then return "Erreur connect_mysql_myBase()" & cr & cr & it

return it

end connect_mysql_myBase




and so on,

when I call a function, I check it with my check_error function which, indeed, makes use of answer command.


Is that the problem?

Maybe but why?










---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Le Gourri?rec  --  d?veloppement  -- son-video-distribution   www.son-video.com
 
------------- I am working with Windows 2000, Revolution 1.1.1, MySQL 3.23 & PHP 4
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From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Oct 13 08:09:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun Oct 13 08:09:01 2002
Subject: running command-line programs from rev
In-Reply-To: <472CE0A4-DE93-11D6-9867-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <17D16772-DEAC-11D6-B96C-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 04:05 AM, David Vaughan wrote:

> Jan has jumped the gun slightly. You will have a problem if you are using 
> 1.1.1. Shell commands in OS X are not supported before 1.5A7. You should 
> be OK on this soon.

When I first got Revolution I wrote this to the list.  (That means tread 
carefully.)  It is a simple shell workaround and an example.  It has a few 
limitations but might work for ditto.  I welcome fixes.

> I know nothing about AppleScript, but with a tiny bit of fooling around I 
> came up with this:
>
> function shellSH cmd
>   -- Sorry, no quote marks in cmd in this version
>   -- And shellCommand is ignored
>   put "do shell script" & quote & cmd & quote into s
>   do s as AppleScript
>   put result() into r
>   replace numToChar(13) with linefeed in r
>   return r
> end shellSH
>
> This uses sh and not tcsh that the Terminal program uses.  There is 
> probably a way to do this with Terminal, but even those six lines of 
> AppleScript are beyond me until I get a reference.
>
> Here is one way to ping, then:
>
> function ping ip
>   return shellSH("/sbin/ping -c 1 " & ip) contains "1 packets received"
> end ping
>
> This takes over 10 seconds if the computer is not there.  It returns 
> virtually immediately if it is.  I tried -w, but it doesn't seem to work.

Dar Scott



From rpresender at earthlink.net  Sun Oct 13 08:35:01 2002
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Sun Oct 13 08:35:01 2002
Subject: SC to RR menu problem
Message-ID: <B337C513-DEAF-11D6-966C-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

Hi,
Using OS 10.2.1, Rev 1.1.1r2/ 1.5A7r1

Having problems in converting a SuperCard project to RR with regard to 
menus.

1.     After copying a card, in SC, it is possible to include the name 
of the new card as a menu item(s) into a particular menu and also 
directly include a script for this new menu item(s).

In RR, I am able to create the new menu item(s) into the applicable btn 
menu(of a group of menus) on the new card. I have tried many approaches 
to create a script for the new menu item(s) without success.

I assume that it is not possible to directly set a script for the new 
menu item.  I also assume that the menuPick pWhich routine of the btn 
menu has to be modified to include the case,etc routine for the new 
menu item.

My problem is that I haven't been able to create a script ( in the On 
New routine  in the Main Stack script) to modify the menuPick routine 
or whatever for the new menu item.

2.  In SC, when a new menu item is created in the copied card's menu, 
the new menu item also appears in the original card's menu.  This 
appears not to happen in RR.  Is a work around necessary to include the 
new item in the original card's menu?

Suggestions will be appreciated. TIA

Regards .... Bob



From rfarnold at bu.edu  Sun Oct 13 09:15:01 2002
From: rfarnold at bu.edu (Bob Arnold)
Date: Sun Oct 13 09:15:01 2002
Subject: Script line break character
Message-ID: <B9CEF647.79494%rfarnold@bu.edu>

Here is a really basic, if not dumb, question.

What is the character (or command) to wrap a long script line to avoid
horizontal scrolling in the script window?

Silly me, I can't find this in the documentation, and my recollection that
it was option-return in HC is correct, this doesn't work in RunRev.

Thanks

Bob
-- 
Robert Arnold
Associate Professor of Film
Boston University
Tel (617) 353-7735  Fax (617) 353-1084
News: http://people.bu.edu/rfarnold/Announce.htm



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Oct 13 09:27:01 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves =?iso-8859-1?Q?Copp=E9?=)
Date: Sun Oct 13 09:27:01 2002
Subject: Script line break character
In-Reply-To: <B9CEF647.79494%rfarnold@bu.edu>
References: <B9CEF647.79494%rfarnold@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <p05111700b9cf32514ca0@[10.0.1.204]>

>Here is a really basic, if not dumb, question.
>
>What is the character (or command) to wrap a long script line to avoid
>horizontal scrolling in the script window?
>
>Silly me, I can't find this in the documentation, and my recollection that
>it was option-return in HC is correct, this doesn't work in RunRev.
>
>Thanks
>
>Bob


I use option-return the same as in HC !
I don't understand why it doesn't work in your script ???

Hope this help
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be


From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Oct 13 11:20:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun Oct 13 11:20:01 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs.
 Revolution)
In-Reply-To: <20021012204932.82237.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
References: <B9CD2087.1E1A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>           
 <a05100303b9cdfe41d7ce@[216.229.107.98]>
 <20021012204932.82237.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9cf348ea328@[216.229.107.98]>

>So no keyboard driven options?  I am a touch typist, and have little 
>love for the mouse. I find it particularly annoying that much of the 
>Web REQUIRES mouse actions.

Yes, we have no keyboard driven options.  OenoLog is designed so that 
the user need never switch between the keyboard and mouse when 
processing a transaction.

The majority of transaction input (as opposed to setup input) is 
determined by selecting individual items (ie: wine lot, grape type, 
source/destination barrel or tank, inventory supply, etc.) from 
various lists.  I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think 
you will agree that selecting an item from a displayed list is more 
easily accomplished with a mouse than a keyboard.

There is no alphabetic character input required to complete 
transaction processing (though optional comments can be entered at 
the end of input).  Whenever numeric input is expected, OenoLog 
displays a numeric keyboard palette so the mouse can be used to enter 
the number.

I am a hunt-&-peck typist, and since the early days of the Mac I have 
constantly looked to see how much I could accomplish with the mouse 
alone.  The techniques used in OenoLog work because, after setup, 
there is minimal alphabetic input required.  I have yet to find an 
acceptable technique for entering alphabetic characters via the mouse 
(displaying a keyboard palette isn't viable for characters as it is 
for numbers).

There is one issue that I bet annoys you touch typists as much as us 
hunt & peckers: input screens that go from a keyboard-entered field 
to a mouse-action field back to a keyboard-entered field back to a 
mouse-action field, etc.  OenoLog setup screens are designed so that 
all keyboard-entered fields come before or after the mouse-action 
fields.

I do try to use keyboard driven options in text-intensive operations. 
For example, next message/previous message buttons originally 
included in Serendipity Library's Message Translator substack were 
replaced with arrow key handlers so the user would not have to switch 
between the mouse & keyboard during a translation session.

There is one other issue regarding keyboard options I will note 
before closing:  they complicate considerations for multi-lingual 
implementations...especially for user-translatable applications. 
Serendipity Library & associated stacks contain no menu shortcuts or 
mnemonics, because I felt it complicated the menu & menuItem 
translation too much for inexperienced users.  However, the menu & 
menuItem text is identified as such on the Translation screen; so the 
experienced translator can add keyboard shortcuts or mnemonics to 
those menus.  (OenoLog has no menubar.)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Oct 13 11:20:34 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun Oct 13 11:20:34 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs.
 Revolution)
In-Reply-To: <B9CD2087.1E1A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <B9CD2087.1E1A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9cf4639c9ce@[216.229.107.98]>

>One of the challenges I've had in researching this article is finding
>examples of popular platform-independent GUIs which take liberties with
>OS-specific guidelines.

Hi again, Richard,

I knew your message was important the first time I read it, and in 
the light of another day & another reading I am only more impressed, 
not only by your insight but also by your ability to present your 
thoughts sans the emotionalism I can't keep out of the subject.

It seems to me we are reaching a point where the goal of the O/S 
providers is to create a "look & feel" that people would prefer to 
see when running Microsoft Office over the look & feel of MS Office 
running on another platform.  As you so aptly point out, that goal 
may not be in the best interest of application developers.

I suspect you will be hard pressed to find many more examples that 
meet your criteria; that was why I suggested you take the more 
difficult approach of looking at the techniques preferred by 
non-programmers (eg: HyperCarders) in designing stacks.  It might 
also be interesting to review the design of Unix apps: my expectation 
is there are less stringent interface guidelines on Unix platforms.

In any case, if you have the time (or the research assistant), I'll 
be happy to send you several hundred HyperCard stacks, mostly done by 
AOL subscribers.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Sun Oct 13 12:21:01 2002
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Sun Oct 13 12:21:01 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs. Revolution)
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b9cf348ea328@[216.229.107.98]> 
References: <B9CD2087.1E1A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
            <a05100303b9cdfe41d7ce@[216.229.107.98]>
            <20021012204932.82237.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
            <a05100300b9cf348ea328@[216.229.107.98]>
Message-ID: <20021013171606.18515.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Rob Cozens writes: 

> 
>> So no keyboard driven options?  I am a touch typist, and have little love for the mouse. I find it particularly annoying that much of the Web 
>> REQUIRES mouse actions.
> 
> Yes, we have no keyboard driven options.  OenoLog is designed so that the 
> user need never switch between the keyboard and mouse when processing a 
> transaction.

Well, if the entire app is heavily mouse-centric, then that's a different 
situation. 

 

> The majority of transaction input (as opposed to setup input) is 
> determined by selecting individual items (ie: wine lot, grape type, 
> source/destination barrel or tank, inventory supply, etc.) from various 
> lists.  I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think you will 
> agree that selecting an item from a displayed list is more easily 
> accomplished with a mouse than a keyboard.

I think you would agreee that the choice of which technique is easier is 
determined by the typing skills of the user and by whether one's hands are 
already on the keyboard or already on the mouse. 


> There is one issue that I bet annoys you touch typists as much as us hunt 
> & peckers: input screens that go from a keyboard-entered field to a 
> mouse-action field back to a keyboard-entered field back to a mouse-action field, etc
 

A resounding YES!  And really, there is no good reason for it, but I'm sure 
there are a million excuses for why it was designed that way. 

It's great that you've taken the time to really think about the UI and how 
it impacts the user's experience. 

miscdas 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Oct 13 12:59:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun Oct 13 12:59:01 2002
Subject: Script line break character
References: <B9CEF647.79494%rfarnold@bu.edu> <p05111700b9cf32514ca0@[10.0.1.204]>
Message-ID: <04aa01c272e0$b48c2780$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

You can also use a "\" as in:

put "this is a very long line of text" \
  into myVar

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Yves Copp?" <yvescoppe at skynet.be>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Script line break character


> >Here is a really basic, if not dumb, question.
> >
> >What is the character (or command) to wrap a long script line to avoid
> >horizontal scrolling in the script window?
> >
> >Silly me, I can't find this in the documentation, and my recollection
that
> >it was option-return in HC is correct, this doesn't work in RunRev.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Bob
>
>
> I use option-return the same as in HC !
> I don't understand why it doesn't work in your script ???
>
> Hope this help
> --
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
>
> Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From mrtea at mac.com  Sun Oct 13 14:24:01 2002
From: mrtea at mac.com (Mr Tea)
Date: Sun Oct 13 14:24:01 2002
Subject: Setting Parameters for PlainTalk Speech
In-Reply-To: <888E9ED2-DE35-11D6-9F19-003065991D92@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B9CF8575.6B91%mrtea@mac.com>

This from Mac Dude - dated 12-10-02 11.54 pm:

> i tried an AS mail list and got nothing...

Speech, sadly, is a minority sport amongst AS users, and so is OS X.
> 
> Under Mac OS 9 I used to be able to set the Rate, Pitch and Modulation
> of a voice by embedding some simple commands ("[[rate <rate>]]",
> "[[pBas <pitch>]]", and "[[pMod <modulation>]]"), the latter 2 no
> longer seem to work under OS X, only the rate command works.  Can
> anyone tell me how to control the voice settings?

Yep, there's definitely something screwy here, dude. On a quick walkthrough
it looks as if 'pbas' only works on the 'musical' voices and 'pmod' not at
all in OS X. Shame. Have you tried switching to phonemic input and using the
prosodic control symbols '/' and '\' to raise and lower pitch?

Mr Tea



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sun Oct 13 14:43:01 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves =?iso-8859-1?Q?Copp=E9?=)
Date: Sun Oct 13 14:43:01 2002
Subject: Need help for printing
Message-ID: <p05111700b9cf7be79454@[10.0.1.204]>

Hi,

I have a stack with 10 cds

I'd like to print cd 3 and 4 of this stack so that those 2 cds come 
on only one page, cd 3 above and cd 4 just below.
When the 2 cds are just aligned one above and the other under, they 
just fit a page, but I cannot print only those 2 cds...


HELP

Thanks.
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Oct 13 15:20:01 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun Oct 13 15:20:01 2002
Subject: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
In-Reply-To: <a05100302b9cdfba33a71@[216.229.107.98]>
Message-ID: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOIELBCHAA.chipp@chipp.com>

>
> >One thing I do admire about Windows, is the lack of a 'holy
> ordained look'
> >(just my opinion).
>
> I'm beginning to develop an appreciation for that myself, Chipp.  But
> I see almost as much concern for a better XP look & feel as for
> improved OSX l&f on this list.
> --
>

Good point Rob, I would suggest there is a difference between an Apple 'holy
ordained look' and a Windows one -- for the following reasons:

Apple has basically two completely different interface 'looks' : pre OSX and
post OSX whereas Windows has more of a 'variations on a theme' type
interface looks. In fact, in WinXP you can even choose the Win98 'classic
look.'

Apple Reviewers and Users(?) seem much more critical of interface variations
(except those by Apple ie the I-look suite) than Windows Reviewers and
Users. In fact, as a reader of many PC rags, I don't remember seeing a
program slammed specifically because of a lack of standard interface issues.

I think a case may be made that Mac users are more 'graphically sensitive'
on the whole. The Mac has historically been the platform of preference for
designers (though I think some of this is changing with the lack of Apple
processor performance and higher cost). This would create more 'interface -
aware' users and reviewers.

I still think RR needs to conform to some more standard look & feel on XP,
but I submit: as these multi OS GUI environments evolve, it will be more and
more difficult for Scott and Kevin to 'keep pace' assuming one wants to
create a single app with a consistent 'look and feel' on each platform. IMO,
this is why programs like Lightwave, Alias, Avid et al create their 'own'
gui -- and other programs like Photoshop, Flash, etc. are 'standardizing' on
cross-platform GUI's.

-Chipp



From simon-lists at ldml.com  Sun Oct 13 15:26:00 2002
From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster)
Date: Sun Oct 13 15:26:00 2002
Subject: Geometry Manager
Message-ID: <2E0D193C-DEE9-11D6-8900-0050E4CE1D03@ldml.com>

Hi

For quite Sunday night education I thought I'd run through the Rev 
tutorials.

Geometry Manager.

Hmm.

"First, choose ?Don't Move? from the Top menu in the Geometry Manager."

What "Don't Move? What Top menu? (Or am I being particularly dense, 
blind or both?) Mac OS X 10.2. This seems to be missing. Also, the 
palette has truncated text. (I have turned on Mac OS Emulated in View 
but toggling between these 2 modes seems to make no difference).

And is it just me or are the results from "Geometry Manager" somewhat 
interesting?

Oh well, while I'm banging on, the Animation tutorial threw up some 
interesting behaviour too. The text field just disappeared. I had to 
quit out of the environment and restart it.

So far, I love the idea of Rev but its execution seems to be 
frightfully buggy.

Simon Forster
_________________________________________________
BabelFix Ltd, Office One, 16 Canham Road, London, W3 7SR, UK
<tel int="+44 20 8746 0555" uk="020 8746 0555">
<tel int="+44 70 9230 5244" uk="070 9230 5244">
<fax int="+44 70 9230 5247" uk="070 9230 5247">
<mailto:simon at babelfix.com>
_________________________________________________


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Oct 13 15:49:00 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun Oct 13 15:49:00 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI
In-Reply-To: <B9CE07D5.15651%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOKELCCHAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Troy, you make some good points.

The Bryce interface was a difficult one for new users to master. And...new
users were it's intended audience.


> Bryce has any level of success because it is powerful - and despite its
> interface. The same can be said for Poser and its ilk. None of those
> programs are recognized very well within the professional
> graphics community
> - even though they have technology and horsepower that says they
> could have
> been. Those professionals who do use them... generally do so "on the sly",
> because they are considered "consumer software" - due entirely to the
> non-standard interfaces they have. The interface itself presents an
> inhibitor to professional workflow.

2 points I might add,

Bryce was *never* intended to be marketed towards professionals. I asked Kai
during the early betas why this was and he rightly pointed out the extreme
marketing and niche-application issues they would have to overcome to do so.
In fact, Bryce didn't have many of the more powerful features, such as
motion blur, adaptive sampling anti-aliasing, or even support of industry
standard models.

I don't know of any 'professional' 3D package which doesn't take a
significant of time to learn -- one could say a 'non-standard' interface.
Most 3D professionals I've worked with rebuke Bryce *because* of it's
technology and horsepower -- not the interface... these guys can work with
just about *any* interface (have you seen SoftImage or Lightwave lately??)

best,
Chipp



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Oct 13 16:27:00 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun Oct 13 16:27:00 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI
In-Reply-To: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOKELCCHAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <B9CF5C14.156B2%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/13/02 4:43 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> I don't know of any 'professional' 3D package which doesn't take a
> significant of time to learn -- one could say a 'non-standard' interface.
> Most 3D professionals I've worked with rebuke Bryce *because* of it's
> technology and horsepower -- not the interface... these guys can work with
> just about *any* interface (have you seen SoftImage or Lightwave lately??)

Yes, this is true, I own Lightwave (but confess that I have moved to
Cinema4D for my own work.) I will say that because traditional interface
elements do not well support the intricacies of 3D, 3D software does all
pretty much have non standard interface elements.

The thing I find interesting about Bryce (and actually ALL of Kai's
interfaces) is their general lack of usability, almost by design. I hate to
use the guy as an example, but while incredibly beautiful, the interfaces
are obstacles. Speaking as someone who has been involved in 3D for about 13
years, the horsepower and technology were there, at the time. We tried to
put those tools into some of our workflows - and the interface was what
prevented it.

The difference is that Lightwave's (and other similar tools) interface is an
attempt to optimize usability for its core intention, and Bryce's is an
attempt to wow the user with the graphic savvy of its designer.

-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From jeanne at runrev.com  Sun Oct 13 16:45:00 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun Oct 13 16:45:00 2002
Subject: Need help for printing
In-Reply-To: <p05111700b9cf7be79454@[10.0.1.204]>
Message-ID: <v03130300b9cf7f62a241@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:40 PM -0700 10/13/2002, Yves Copp? wrote:
>I'd like to print cd 3 and 4 of this stack so that those 2 cds come
>on only one page, cd 3 above and cd 4 just below.

This should do it (assuming the two cards fit):

  open printing
  print card 3
  print card 4
  close printing

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From kkaufman at snet.net  Sun Oct 13 16:49:01 2002
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Sun Oct 13 16:49:01 2002
Subject: Setting Parameters for PlainTalk Speech
Message-ID: <EE3A427E-DEF4-11D6-8823-00039348A1E6@snet.net>

Up through 10.1.x, I was able to get any of the voices to "sing", but 
no more.  The "musical" voices have their own "pre-fab" pitch routine 
set, so to work with them is not practical.
Too bad, the "Singing Mac" was an effective novelty.

-Kurt



From Mike at Doub.com  Sun Oct 13 17:56:01 2002
From: Mike at Doub.com (Mike Doub)
Date: Sun Oct 13 17:56:01 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards
Message-ID: <LOBBKHHMGNHFHNPEJJLBGEJLCMAA.Mike@Doub.com>

I am planning the design of an address book like application.   I have been
studying the Employee database tutorial and have noticed that the scripts
are duplicated on each card.  I am planning to support about 3000 entries.
That would seem to be pretty wasteful.

Can anyone comment of their experience with lots of cards? I am concerned
with both memory and performance.  I have no experience with using a
databases so I was trying not to lean in that direction.

--Thanks
   Mike





From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Oct 13 18:02:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Sun Oct 13 18:02:01 2002
Subject: big pb with standAlone & MySQL
In-Reply-To: <a05111a2fb9cdd94f1396@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <FCE55A5F-DEFE-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I had this problem when doing some work with MySQL. If you do a query  
(that results in a cursor) and then try to do another query before  
closing the first cursor, you will get this error. The fix is easy -  
after every query, get the data, then do an revdb_closecursor().

Sarah


On Saturday, October 12, 2002, at 11:51  pm, Sylvain Le Gourri?rec  
wrote:

> hello,
> ?
> I really need help.
> ?
> I develop a backoffice. Not a very difficult thing but I have to be  
> very care about the relationships between the standAlone revolution  
> app & MySQL.
> ?
> Into the development environment, no pb.?So, I build the distribution.
> ?
> It arrived that I got a "revdberr, restricted under current license" !
> ?
> So I decided to write my script again :((
> ?
> I have no more error message but only 20 rows are retrieved!
> ?
> Of course I have a license.
> ?
> ?
> What can I do? I waste a lot of time with that...
> ?
> thanks
> ?
> ?
> ps? of course, my scripts are not basic. But they are not very  
> complex. The most complex function I wrote includes just ?3 functions  
> call!
> ?
> ?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sylvain Le Gourri?rec? ??? d?veloppement? ?? son-video-distribution??  
> www.son-video.com
> ?
> ------------- I am working with Windows 2000, Revolution 1.1.1, MySQL  
> 3.23 & PHP 4




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Oct 13 18:24:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Sun Oct 13 18:24:01 2002
Subject: Scrolling Objects
In-Reply-To: <a05111a16b9cd3bcb2886@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <FA13108F-DF01-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

If you need to scroll both horizontally & vertically, you will need to 
use the vScroll & hScroll properties of your group.

Sarah

On Saturday, October 12, 2002, at 12:39  pm, Ken Ray wrote:

> Absolutely. Turn off the vertical scroll bar and say:
>
>  set the scroll of <groupDesc> to <value>
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Doub" <Mike at doub.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 9:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Scrolling Objects
>
>
>> Is there a way to hide the scroll bar?   I would like to control the
> scroll programaticly.
>>
>> Thank you all for being so responsive.  This is great!
>>
>> -- Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> Use a group object and turn on its vertical scrolling property. You 
>>> can
>>> "group the groups", and after you apply the scrollbar, it becomes a
>>> scrolling region in and of itself.
>>>
>>> Ken Ray
>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Doub" <Mike at doub.com>
>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 8:34 PM
>>> Subject: Scrolling Objects
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> What is the best way to implement a list of objects that are
> scrollable.
>>> I have a need to scroll a "list" of groups that are made up of a text
> field
>>> grouped with a few graphical elements.
>>>>
>>>> Is there some way to attach an obect to a scrollable text field?  Is
> there
>>> another object designed for this purpose?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>>
>>>> -- Mike
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Oct 13 18:27:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Sun Oct 13 18:27:01 2002
Subject: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?
In-Reply-To: <a05111a05b9cd07c1f675@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <5549C46C-DF02-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Rob,

I tested this script on OS 9.2 and it worked fine, but I think the 
problem may be that this line has lost it's last word due to the text 
wrap of the email. Make sure the "then" is on this line rather than on 
a line of it's own.

I couldn't get any of this to work for OS X. If it works in X then I 
think it is still only looking at the Classic network setup rather than 
X's setup.

Cheers,
Sarah

On Saturday, October 12, 2002, at 08:57  am, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> Sarah - - - thanks so much for this script.? I've hit one stumbling 
> block that's keeping it from running, and no one seems to know how to 
> fix it - - - was wondering if someone on this list might:
>
> The problem is with this line:
>
> if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration)
>
> appleScript is complaining of a type mismatch problem.? I thought 
> perhaps putting
>
> if (class of configuration i of config) as string is (TCPIP v4 
> configuration)
>
> might fix the problem, but that gave me a syntax error.? I've only 
> been scripting for about 2 months.? Would anyone happen to know how to 
> solve such type-matching errors?? The impression I get is that you 
> can't compare a string to a class.
>
> - Rob
>




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Oct 13 18:33:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Sun Oct 13 18:33:01 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards
In-Reply-To: <a05111ae1b9cfaa8d1e2a@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <3FCCE324-DF03-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

If all the cards have the same structure, you can group all the objects 
and turn on the group's backgroundBehavior. This way all the objects 
are created automatically on any new card. You can also put your 
scripts in the group or it's objects, so that they really only exist in 
one place.

The cards method is much the easiest to learn and implement but with 
3000 cards, it may turn out too slow. The next best option is probably 
to have a data storage section and a display section. Suppose you are 
storing names & addresses. Instead of having one per card, you could 
enter them, then amalgamate all the data fields into a single line 
separated by tabs or some unusual character. When you need to display 
that data again, get the line, set the item delimiter to whatever 
character you chose and place each item in the appropriate field.

This method allows very fast searching using the filter command or 
lineOffset. Also, if you build the application, the display stack can 
be the mainStack (so not writable) but your data can be in a separate 
subStack and able to be saved.

Cheers,
Sarah


On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 08:56  am, Mike Doub wrote:

> I am planning the design of an address book like application.   I have 
> been
> studying the Employee database tutorial and have noticed that the 
> scripts
> are duplicated on each card.  I am planning to support about 3000 
> entries.
> That would seem to be pretty wasteful.
>
> Can anyone comment of their experience with lots of cards? I am 
> concerned
> with both memory and performance.  I have no experience with using a
> databases so I was trying not to lean in that direction.
>
> --Thanks
>    Mike
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Oct 13 20:19:00 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun Oct 13 20:19:00 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI
In-Reply-To: <B9CF5C14.156B2%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOAELGCHAA.chipp@chipp.com>

> Yes, this is true, I own Lightwave (but confess that I have moved to
> Cinema4D for my own work.) I will say that because traditional interface
> elements do not well support the intricacies of 3D, 3D software does all
> pretty much have non standard interface elements.
>
> The thing I find interesting about Bryce (and actually ALL of Kai's
> interfaces) is their general lack of usability, almost by design.
> I hate to
> use the guy as an example, but while incredibly beautiful, the interfaces
> are obstacles. Speaking as someone who has been involved in 3D
> for about 13
> years, the horsepower and technology were there, at the time. We tried to
> put those tools into some of our workflows - and the interface was what
> prevented it.
>
> The difference is that Lightwave's (and other similar tools)
> interface is an
> attempt to optimize usability for its core intention, and Bryce's is an
> attempt to wow the user with the graphic savvy of its designer.
>
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

I agree. While our discussion is surely 'off topic', you make valid points.
I often thought Kai should've included a 'standard' interface mode as well.
We can see some of Kai's influence in modern day OS'es. I believe his apps
were the first to use alpha channel masks for interface controls (this can
be done in Rev too!) and they did push the envelope (perhaps a bit too far)
in areas of button design and overall graphic aesthetics of programs.

Years later, Apple began using alpha layering for QT player and then in OSX.
Pretty cool stuff.

-Chipp



From alex at mindlube.com  Sun Oct 13 20:42:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Oct 13 20:42:00 2002
Subject: dealing w/ multidimensional arrays
Message-ID: <5A42FC3A-DF15-11D6-A54F-000393529642@mindlube.com>

It seems that Rev only simulates support for multidimensional arrays by 
concatenating the key together for you. It makes creating 
multidimensional arrays easy.  That's great but how do you get the data 
out, unless you know the entire concatenated array key before hand? And 
how likely is that? Do I have to use regular expressions to match my 
"multidimensional" array keys to access my data?

Illustrating my problem

put "x" into myArr["type 1", "color red"]
put "y" into myArr["type 1", "color blue"]
put "z" into myArr["type 2", "color red"]
put "a" into myArr["type 2", "color blue"]

-- oops can't do this:
put myArr["type 1"] into myArrayOfTypeOneObjects

Am I missing something here, or is the multidimensional array support 
only really during the creation of array keys, and not for accessing 
them?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Oct 13 21:09:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun Oct 13 21:09:00 2002
Subject: dealing w/ multidimensional arrays
References: <5A42FC3A-DF15-11D6-A54F-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <04f001c27325$25566b80$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

You can access them by getting the "keys" of the array. For example:

  get the keys of myArr

Would return a multiline result:

  type 1,color red
  type 1,color blue
  type 2,color red
  type 2,color blue

Does this help you at all?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alex Rice" <alex at mindlube.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 8:36 PM
Subject: dealing w/ multidimensional arrays


> It seems that Rev only simulates support for multidimensional arrays by 
> concatenating the key together for you. It makes creating 
> multidimensional arrays easy.  That's great but how do you get the data 
> out, unless you know the entire concatenated array key before hand? And 
> how likely is that? Do I have to use regular expressions to match my 
> "multidimensional" array keys to access my data?
> 
> Illustrating my problem
> 
> put "x" into myArr["type 1", "color red"]
> put "y" into myArr["type 1", "color blue"]
> put "z" into myArr["type 2", "color red"]
> put "a" into myArr["type 2", "color blue"]
> 
> -- oops can't do this:
> put myArr["type 1"] into myArrayOfTypeOneObjects
> 
> Am I missing something here, or is the multidimensional array support 
> only really during the creation of array keys, and not for accessing 
> them?
> 
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> alrice at swcp.com
> alex_rice at arc.to
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 13 21:34:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun Oct 13 21:34:01 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards
In-Reply-To: <LOBBKHHMGNHFHNPEJJLBGEJLCMAA.Mike@Doub.com>
Message-ID: <B9CF79DA.1E2EC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Mike Doub wrote:

> I am planning the design of an address book like application.   I have been
> studying the Employee database tutorial and have noticed that the scripts
> are duplicated on each card.  I am planning to support about 3000 entries.
> That would seem to be pretty wasteful.
> 
> Can anyone comment of their experience with lots of cards? I am concerned
> with both memory and performance.  I have no experience with using a
> databases so I was trying not to lean in that direction.


There's a third option: arrays of custom properties in a stack file -

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-July/006141.html>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From terry at discovery.nl  Sun Oct 13 21:52:01 2002
From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Sun Oct 13 21:52:01 2002
Subject: Geometry Manager
In-Reply-To: <2E0D193C-DEE9-11D6-8900-0050E4CE1D03@ldml.com>
Message-ID: <B9CFFC87.183AC%terry@discovery.nl>

> Geometry Manager.
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> "First, choose ?Don't Move? from the Top menu in the Geometry Manager."
> 
> What "Don't Move? What Top menu? (Or am I being particularly dense,
> blind or both?) Mac OS X 10.2. This seems to be missing. Also, the
> palette has truncated text. (I have turned on Mac OS Emulated in View
> but toggling between these 2 modes seems to make no difference).

When the GeoMan is open and the "scaling" tab is selected, there are 4
popups under "Maintain dimensions relative to", named right, left, top and
bottom. Choose "Don't move" from the popup labeled "top".

> And is it just me or are the results from "Geometry Manager" somewhat
> interesting?
> [...]
> So far, I love the idea of Rev but its execution seems to be
> frightfully buggy.

The GeoMan is not the most reliable part of RunRev; I always make my own
'resizeStack' handler, doing my own positioning calculations. But I wonder
how you were able to test the reliability of the GeoMan without being able
to find a menu item from the 'top' menu. Or do you just mean that some
palette elements are not well positioned under OS X, so the software is
'unreliable'...

I think it is not really fair to judge RunRev because it has some features
that don't work well. The strength of RunRev is it's scriptability. 90% or
more of the 'tailormade' software and many other applications can be made
rapidly using RunRev. But you can't really show these features in a
tutorial. You can mainly show some readymade features like the GeoMan;
unfortunately the weaker parts of RunRev. But don't let that distract you.
It is like buying a CD; you seldomly like all the tracks. Some tracks you
don't like, but you still buy it because of the tracks you do like. Or is
this example outdated in this MP3 age?

Terry




From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Oct 13 22:33:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun Oct 13 22:33:01 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards
In-Reply-To: <B9CF79DA.1E2EC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B9CFB1CF.156C4%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/13/02 10:28 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

>> Can anyone comment of their experience with lots of cards? I am concerned
>> with both memory and performance.  I have no experience with using a
>> databases so I was trying not to lean in that direction.
> 
> 
> There's a third option: arrays of custom properties in a stack file -
> 
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-July/006141.html>

Exactly. As I've mentioned in the past, at my company, we didn't come to Rev
with a Hypercard background, and frankly, we don't use the "card" process
very much. Our applications may have one or two cards in total, probably
just due to the way we think about scripting and application construction.
But we do store lots of info in the way Richard is describing, and then
populate a single card with that info on demand. I'm not sure it is the
right way, or the best way, but it sure works better for us than managing a
ton of cards (which I can't get my head around.)


-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From alex at mindlube.com  Sun Oct 13 22:36:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Oct 13 22:36:01 2002
Subject: dealing w/ multidimensional arrays
In-Reply-To: <04f001c27325$25566b80$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <2C41D7D3-DF25-11D6-A54F-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 07:58  PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> You can access them by getting the "keys" of the array. For example:
>
>   get the keys of myArr
>
> Would return a multiline result:
>
>   type 1,color red
>   type 1,color blue
>   type 2,color red
>   type 2,color blue
>
> Does this help you at all?

Yes, I was just hoping to avoid having to scan all the keys and weed 
out the parts of the array I'm looking for. It kind of reduces the 
utility of using multidimensional arrays.


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Sun Oct 13 23:10:01 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Sun Oct 13 23:10:01 2002
Subject: dealing w/ multidimensional arrays
In-Reply-To: <2C41D7D3-DF25-11D6-A54F-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <17ECC44E-DF2A-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Monday, Oct 14, 2002, at 13:29 Australia/Sydney, Alex Rice wrote:

Alex

> "... having to scan all the keys and weed out the parts..."

there is "filter", or were you not really saying what it says?

regards
David
>
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> alrice at swcp.com
> alex_rice at arc.to
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Oct 14 00:49:01 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon Oct 14 00:49:01 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards
In-Reply-To: <B9CFB1CF.156C4%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOCELLCHAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Troy brings up a couple of interesting points:

> Our applications may have one or two cards in total, probably
> just due to the way we think about scripting and application construction.
> But we do store lots of info in the way Richard is describing, and then
> populate a single card with that info on demand. I'm not sure it is the
> right way, or the best way, but it sure works better for us than
> managing a
> ton of cards (which I can't get my head around.)
>

I myself came from a HyperCard/SuperCard then VB background. And like Troy,
most projects I work on contain only a couple of cards...typically the first
card (the interface) with a second card for graphics used as icons on cd 1.
Only when I create wizards do I use more than one card in a stack. Data
structures are almost always arrays, custom properties, text field/files
and/or other single card stacks. Tab controls only show and hide groups.

I never liked storing data in cards because it was very slow to access in
SuperCard. In fact, we created our own XCMD's (BlitPict) to display graphics
just to increase the speed. I'm interested in how others use cards???

Anyone?

-Chipp Walters



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Oct 14 01:06:01 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE)
Date: Mon Oct 14 01:06:01 2002
Subject: Print a card
Message-ID: <p05100300b9d00d3170e0@[10.0.1.202]>

Hi,



I have a pb with printing a card.

I work on Mac OS X 1.5.

The background color of my cd is "white"
When I print the card, the printed page has a grey background color !

How can I get rid of this grey color (consuming much color !)

Thanks.
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be


From jeanne at runrev.com  Mon Oct 14 01:48:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon Oct 14 01:48:01 2002
Subject: SC to RR menu problem
In-Reply-To: <B337C513-DEAF-11D6-966C-000393A19046@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <v03130306b9cf9c125fe7@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:28 AM -0700 10/13/2002, Robert Presender wrote:
>1.     After copying a card, in SC, it is possible to include the name
>of the new card as a menu item(s) into a particular menu and also
>directly include a script for this new menu item(s).
>
>In RR, I am able to create the new menu item(s) into the applicable btn
>menu(of a group of menus) on the new card. I have tried many approaches
>to create a script for the new menu item(s) without success.
>
>I assume that it is not possible to directly set a script for the new
>menu item.  I also assume that the menuPick pWhich routine of the btn
>menu has to be modified to include the case,etc routine for the new
>menu item.
>
>My problem is that I haven't been able to create a script ( in the On
>New routine  in the Main Stack script) to modify the menuPick routine
>or whatever for the new menu item.

Modifying a script is basically like modifying any other property: you put
the property into a variable, make the changes you need, then set the
property back to the variable:

  on newCard
    put the script of button "Cards" into myScript
    -- make changes to myScript
    set the script of button "Cards" to myScript
  end newCard

However, it's a bit awkward to do this if the script is at all complicated,
because you have to do a bit of parsing to find the desired handler, then
add new lines without disrupting the control structures in the handler. In
this case, I would suggest instead writing a general-purpose handler that
can be used regardless of the menu contents:

  on menuPick theItem -- goes in button menu script
    if there is a card theItem then go card theItem
    else beep -- card wasn't there
  end menuPick

This works for all card names, and doesn't require a modification every
time you add a card - it just works off the card name in the menu, so all
you need to do is add the card name to the button's text to have the menu
routine work.

If the menu has menu items other than card names, you can write specific
case structures for those items, for example:

  on menuPick theItem
    switch theItem
    case "Previous"
      go previous card
      break
    case "Next"
      go next card
      break
    default -- if none of the previous cases apply:
      if there is a card theItem then go card theItem
      else beep
    end switch
  end menuPick

In general, you're right that menu items in Rev are not objects - instead,
they're lines in a button - so it's not possible to create a separate
script for a menu item.


>2.  In SC, when a new menu item is created in the copied card's menu,
>the new menu item also appears in the original card's menu.  This
>appears not to happen in RR.  Is a work around necessary to include the
>new item in the original card's menu?

If you mean the same menu bar displayed on more than one card, this should
work - the menubar group is the same object, so changes made on one card
should be reflected everywhere the group is placed. Can you say more about
how you did this, what steps you followed?

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Mon Oct 14 01:48:14 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon Oct 14 01:48:14 2002
Subject: Script line break character
In-Reply-To: <p05111700b9cf32514ca0@[10.0.1.204]>
References: <B9CEF647.79494%rfarnold@bu.edu>
 <B9CEF647.79494%rfarnold@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <v03130307b9cf9f452024@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:24 AM -0700 10/13/2002, Yves Copp? wrote:
>>What is the character (or command) to wrap a long script line to avoid
>>horizontal scrolling in the script window?
>>
>>Silly me, I can't find this in the documentation, and my recollection that
>>it was option-return in HC is correct, this doesn't work in RunRev.

>I use option-return the same as in HC !
>I don't understand why it doesn't work in your script ???

It works on Mac OS, but not on the other platforms. (For this reason it is
recommended to use the backslash (\) instead, so there won't be a problem
when moving a stack between platforms.)

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From smilingeyes at mac.com  Mon Oct 14 01:56:02 2002
From: smilingeyes at mac.com (Ray Bennett)
Date: Mon Oct 14 01:56:02 2002
Subject: Script line break character
References: <B9CEF647.79494%rfarnold@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <3DAA6935.40601@mac.com>

I too used the option-return sequence.  However, on my Mac (Pismo 
PowerBook - OS 9.2.2),   it actually looks like it generates "CR" then 
"\" then another "CR".  So, as someone else suggested, just typing it 
"\" in directly must be the answer.  

Ray

Bob Arnold wrote:

>Here is a really basic, if not dumb, question.
>
>What is the character (or command) to wrap a long script line to avoid
>horizontal scrolling in the script window?
>
>Silly me, I can't find this in the documentation, and my recollection that
>it was option-return in HC is correct, this doesn't work in RunRev.
>
>Thanks
>
>Bob
>  
>




From katir at hindu.org  Mon Oct 14 02:04:00 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon Oct 14 02:04:00 2002
Subject: Downloading and running compressed stacks
Message-ID: <7D599291-DF42-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

In this case context is from a mounted volume over the LAN.. I also 
need the syntax
for doing the same via FTP.

This is problably in the archives somewhere... but, no search engine:

(Can someone repost that google search string again? Thanks)

This isn't working for me... missing something simple.

on mouseUp
   put    URL  "file:/Volumes/Sound Projects/mathaShastra.gz" into 
stuffedStack
   put decompress(stuffedStack) into runStack
   go runStack
end mouseUp

??
Thanks!
Himalayan Academy Publications
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Editor's Assistant/Production Manager
katir at hindu.org
www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org

Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at
http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Oct 14 02:19:01 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon Oct 14 02:19:01 2002
Subject: Downloading and running compressed stacks
In-Reply-To: <7D599291-DF42-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <B9CFBCF8.8199%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:

> This isn't working for me... missing something simple.
> 
> on mouseUp
> put    URL  "file:/Volumes/Sound Projects/mathaShastra.gz" into
> stuffedStack
> put decompress(stuffedStack) into runStack
> go runStack
> end mouseUp

Maybe "binfile:" instead of "file:"?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From simon-lists at ldml.com  Mon Oct 14 02:20:01 2002
From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster)
Date: Mon Oct 14 02:20:01 2002
Subject: Geometry Manager
In-Reply-To: <B9CFFC87.183AC%terry@discovery.nl>
Message-ID: <7D5D5C58-DF44-11D6-8900-0050E4CE1D03@ldml.com>

On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 03:45 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:

> The strength of RunRev is it's scriptability. 90% or
> more of the 'tailormade' software and many other applications can be 
> made
> rapidly using RunRev. But you can't really show these features in a
> tutorial. You can mainly show some readymade features like the GeoMan;
> unfortunately the weaker parts of RunRev. But don't let that distract 
> you.

So you're saying stick with it, that RunRev isn't bad at all? I have to 
say that I love the idea of an easy to use, high level tool which is 
cross platform ??it's just that the implementation seems a little weak.

I downloaded the try-out version earlier this week and have spent 
around 6 hours playing with it. So far, I have had a few "this program 
has unexpectedly quit..." dialog boxes (due to Mac OS X 10.2 appearance 
manager apparently), the Animation Manager ate my text field and 
Geometry Manager seems, as I said, somewhat buggy in its behaviour.

> It is like buying a CD; you seldomly like all the tracks. Some tracks 
> you
> don't like, but you still buy it because of the tracks you do like. Or 
> is
> this example outdated in this MP3 age?

OK. I hear what you say and you may well be correct ??I'll stick with 
it for a while longer.

And yes, the example given may be a bit outdated ? but it's one I can 
understand!

Simon Forster
_________________________________________________
BabelFix Ltd, Office One, 16 Canham Road, London, W3 7SR, UK
<tel int="+44 20 8746 0555" uk="020 8746 0555">
<tel int="+44 70 9230 5244" uk="070 9230 5244">
<fax int="+44 70 9230 5247" uk="070 9230 5247">
<mailto:simon at babelfix.com>
_________________________________________________


Simon Forster
_________________________________________________
BabelFix Ltd, Office One, 16 Canham Road, London, W3 7SR, UK
<tel int="+44 20 8746 0555" uk="020 8746 0555">
<tel int="+44 70 9230 5244" uk="070 9230 5244">
<fax int="+44 70 9230 5247" uk="070 9230 5247">
<mailto:simon at babelfix.com>
_________________________________________________


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Mon Oct 14 03:53:01 2002
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (Ron)
Date: Mon Oct 14 03:53:01 2002
Subject: Valentina & Revolution 
In-Reply-To: <138.15eb21c7.2ad9a35c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B9D0B438.9775%rbarber@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Greetings

Is anyone using Valentina VXCMD in Rev 1.1.1? I am having trouble getting
the standalone to work when built for OS X on OS 9 and Valentina engine.
(Yes, I know about the built in access to Valentina and have successfully
used that, it is great, but I need to get the VXCMD working as well)

Thanks
Ron



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 14 05:01:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct 14 05:01:01 2002
Subject: running command-line programs from rev [OT]
In-Reply-To: <17D16772-DEAC-11D6-B96C-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20021014095534.94258.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 04:05 AM, David
> Vaughan wrote:
> 
> > Jan has jumped the gun slightly. You will have a
> problem if you are using 
> > 1.1.1. Shell commands in OS X are not supported
> before 1.5A7. You should 
> > be OK on this soon.
> 
> When I first got Revolution I wrote this to the
> list.  (That means tread 
> carefully.)  It is a simple shell workaround and an
> example.  It has a few 
> limitations but might work for ditto.  I welcome
> fixes.
> 
> > I know nothing about AppleScript, but with a tiny
> bit of fooling around I 
> > came up with this:
> >
> > function shellSH cmd
> >   -- Sorry, no quote marks in cmd in this version
> >   -- And shellCommand is ignored
> >   put "do shell script" & quote & cmd & quote into
> s
> >   do s as AppleScript
> >   put result() into r
> >   replace numToChar(13) with linefeed in r
> >   return r
> > end shellSH
> >
> > [snip]
> 
> Dar Scott
> 

Hi David and Dar,

So I wasn't jumping the gun _after all_ *grin*
I knew there was a workaround somewhere, even if it
involved AppleScript. And to say that a few weeks ago
I _did_ point out that it wouldn't work under MacOS X.
About time I replace my trusty ol' Performa 5200 with
one of those yummie 17inch iMacs... *drool*
Anyone have good tips on how to ask for a raise? ;-)

Yours quirkily,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk  Mon Oct 14 05:02:01 2002
From: robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk (Robin Banerjee)
Date: Mon Oct 14 05:02:01 2002
Subject: disabling buttons while sound file is playing
Message-ID: <B9D0535C.D31%robinb@cogs.susx.ac.uk>

I've been trying to disable a set of buttons while a sound file is playing
(so that any mouse clicks while the sound is playing are ignored).  But the
following doesn't seem to work - the mouseUp action simply takes place after
the sound stops playing):

on openCard
  disable button 8
  play "oct2002/sa1.aif"
  wait until the sound is done
  enable button 8
end openCard


Another query:  how do I specify multiple buttons without using a repeat
control structure? (e.g., button 8 to 12 doesn't seem to do it)

-- 
Dr Robin Banerjee
robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 14 05:14:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct 14 05:14:01 2002
Subject: pb with standAlone & MySQL
In-Reply-To: <00b501c272ab$9273ec80$6601a8c0@sylvax>
Message-ID: <20021014100812.3812.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sylvain_Le_Gourri?rec
<sylvain.legourrierec at son-video.com> wrote:
> Indeed I use answer command...
> 
> [snip]
> 
> when I call a function, I check it with my
> check_error function which, indeed, makes use of
> answer command.
> 
> 
> Is that the problem?
> 
> Maybe but why?
> 
> 
> Sylvain Le Gourri?rec

Hi Sylvain,

Sarah already gave you a good suggestion:
insert a call to revdb_closecursor as soon as you're
done with it.

At any rate, I mainly wanted to help you 'pinpoint'
the situation where things went wrong -- as someone
who worked at a helpdesk for a while (several years
ago), I know how hard it is to trace down a problem if
you just don't know where to look.

If you can find a reproducable error with a certain
set of data and a certain instruction, the problem is
already half-solved...

Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 14 05:26:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct 14 05:26:00 2002
Subject: disabling buttons while sound file is playing
In-Reply-To: <B9D0535C.D31%robinb@cogs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20021014102007.12286.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Robin Banerjee <robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk> wrote:
> I've been trying to disable a set of buttons while a
> sound file is playing
> (so that any mouse clicks while the sound is playing
> are ignored).  But the
> following doesn't seem to work - the mouseUp action
> simply takes place after
> the sound stops playing):
> 
> on openCard
>   disable button 8
>   play "oct2002/sa1.aif"
>   wait until the sound is done
>   enable button 8
> end openCard
> 
> 
> Another query:  how do I specify multiple buttons
> without using a repeat
> control structure? (e.g., button 8 to 12 doesn't
> seem to do it)
> 
> -- 
> Dr Robin Banerjee
> 

Hi Robin,

For your first problem: you can insert a 'flushEvents'
call at the end of your openCard handler ; this will
"eat" up all the events (or only those of a certain
type) that happened after the openCard started. You'll
probably want:

  on openCard
    disable button 8
    play "oct2002/sa1.aif"
    wait until the sound is done
    enable button 8
    get flushEvents(all)
  end openCard

But do look at the Transcript dictionary for all the
options.

As for your second issue: you'll need a repeat
structure ; though depending on what you want to
accomplish, it could be interesting to 'group' the
buttons and then work on the group.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Mon Oct 14 05:35:00 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Mon Oct 14 05:35:00 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards
In-Reply-To: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOCELLCHAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <CE7C1419-DF5F-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>


On Monday, Oct 14, 2002, at 15:43 Australia/Sydney, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Troy brings up a couple of interesting points:
>
>> Our applications may have one or two cards in total, probably
>> just due to the way we think about scripting and application 
>> construction.
>> But we do store lots of info in the way Richard is describing, and 
>> then
>> populate a single card with that info on demand. I'm not sure it is 
>> the
>> right way, or the best way, but it sure works better for us than
>> managing a
>> ton of cards (which I can't get my head around.)
>>
>
> I myself came from a HyperCard/SuperCard then VB background. And like 
> Troy,
> most projects I work on contain only a couple of cards...typically the 
> first
> card (the interface) with a second card for graphics used as icons on 
> cd 1.
> Only when I create wizards do I use more than one card in a stack. Data
> structures are almost always arrays, custom properties, text 
> field/files
> and/or other single card stacks. Tab controls only show and hide 
> groups.

snip

  I'm interested in how others use cards???
> Anyone?

Well, I am at a half-way house. I find I have abandoned the old 
multiple-background approach with HC in favour of multiple stacks. Data 
which I used to stash in a separate background now goes into custom 
properties or is built on the fly. However, I am still using a card for 
each primary record, complete with prev/next buttons and a modal list 
to jump to particular cards. A new record is a new card, partially 
populated with defaults from the old one.

I mentioned recently that I have another app to transfer. It contains 
about a thousand cards in one background plus other backgrounds for 
help information, storing certain lists and summaries and so on. 
Planning it, I was groping towards an interface-and-data model (without 
wishing to go right to an SQL database, although I have done that 
before with an HC front end), so I am finding your comments on this 
pretty interesting. Anyone else like to comment on the worth of such a 
transition? Or whether I should even go straight to Valentina for 
1,000-2,000 records? They are normally accessed individually for single 
update rather than reported or modified en masse.

regards
David

>
> -Chipp Walters
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
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From Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi  Mon Oct 14 05:50:01 2002
From: Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Esa_Kivel=E4?=)
Date: Mon Oct 14 05:50:01 2002
Subject: desimal numbers calculation
Message-ID: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E7D@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>

Greetings

Some newbie question:

I tried to calculate desimal numbers in RR but how can code some calculation. 
 
In the card I have some text filed where users put some numbers like 0,5, 3,4 and so on. 
 
In some field I'd like to show those fields result as ie. 0,5 + 3,4 and so on but that + operator in the script won't calculate desimal numbers. 
 
Is there any other way to sum those desimal numbers? 
 
Yours 
 
EsaK 


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 14 07:02:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct 14 07:02:01 2002
Subject: desimal numbers calculation
In-Reply-To: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E7D@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>
Message-ID: <20021014115647.4896.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Esa_Kivel? <Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi> wrote:
> Greetings
> 
> Some newbie question:
> 
> I tried to calculate desimal numbers in RR but how
> can code some calculation. 
>  
> In the card I have some text filed where users put
> some numbers like 0,5, 3,4 and so on. 
>  
> In some field I'd like to show those fields result
> as ie. 0,5 + 3,4 and so on but that + operator in
> the script won't calculate desimal numbers. 
>  
> Is there any other way to sum those desimal numbers?
> 
>  
> Yours 
>  
> EsaK 
>

Hi Esa,

RunRev expects numeric data to have a decimal point.
Therefore, you'll have to convert between 'display'
and 'calculation' format before and after calculation.
If you don't need thousand separators, then it's as
easy as:
  function Conv4Disp pNumber
    replace "." with "," in pNumber
    return pNumber
  end Conv4Disp
  function Conv4Calc pNumber
    replace "," with "." in pNumber
    return pNumber
  end Conv4Calc

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi  Mon Oct 14 07:12:01 2002
From: Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Esa_Kivel=E4?=)
Date: Mon Oct 14 07:12:01 2002
Subject: VS: desimal numbers calculation
Message-ID: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E7F@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>

> 
> Hi Esa,
> 
> RunRev expects numeric data to have a decimal point.
> Therefore, you'll have to convert between 'display'
> and 'calculation' format before and after calculation.
> If you don't need thousand separators, then it's as
> easy as:
>   function Conv4Disp pNumber
>     replace "." with "," in pNumber
>     return pNumber
>   end Conv4Disp
>   function Conv4Calc pNumber
>     replace "," with "." in pNumber
>     return pNumber
>   end Conv4Calc
> 
> Hope this helped,

Nope it dosen't. How I can calcalte desimal numbers fron text filed and put the results to the text field? I can put ie. 2,4 directly into text field without any convert?

EsaK


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 14 07:29:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct 14 07:29:01 2002
Subject: VS: desimal numbers calculation
In-Reply-To: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E7F@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>
Message-ID: <20021014122337.21272.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Esa_Kivel? <Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi> wrote:
> [snip]
> >   function Conv4Disp pNumber
> >     replace "." with "," in pNumber
> >     return pNumber
> >   end Conv4Disp
> >   function Conv4Calc pNumber
> >     replace "," with "." in pNumber
> >     return pNumber
> >   end Conv4Calc
> > 
> > Hope this helped,
> 
> Nope it dosen't. How I can calcalte desimal numbers
> fron text filed and put the results to the text
> field? I can put ie. 2,4 directly into text field
> without any convert?
> 

Hi Esa,

Using the functions above, try this:

  put Conv4Calc(field "Number1") into tNumber1
  put Conv4Calc(field "Number2") into tNumber2
  put Conv4Disp(tNumber1 + tNumber2) into field \
    "Result"

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 14 07:36:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct 14 07:36:01 2002
Subject: VS: desimal numbers calculation
In-Reply-To: <20021014122337.21272.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021014123022.53337.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- Esa_Kivel? <Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi> wrote:
> > [snip]
> > >   function Conv4Disp pNumber
> > >     replace "." with "," in pNumber
> > >     return pNumber
> > >   end Conv4Disp
> > >   function Conv4Calc pNumber
> > >     replace "," with "." in pNumber
> > >     return pNumber
> > >   end Conv4Calc
> > > 
> > > Hope this helped,
> > 
> > Nope it dosen't. How I can calcalte desimal
> numbers
> > fron text filed and put the results to the text
> > field? I can put ie. 2,4 directly into text field
> > without any convert?
> > 
> 
> Hi Esa,
> 
> Using the functions above, try this:
> 
>   put Conv4Calc(field "Number1") into tNumber1
>   put Conv4Calc(field "Number2") into tNumber2
>   put Conv4Disp(tNumber1 + tNumber2) into field \
>     "Result"
> 

Just to clarify things: there is no global setting for
the decimal point. It would be nice if one could
  set the decimalPoint to ","
But as this would in turn cause other headaches, I
think we'll have to convert things back and forth.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi  Mon Oct 14 07:46:00 2002
From: Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Esa_Kivel=E4?=)
Date: Mon Oct 14 07:46:00 2002
Subject: VS: VS: desimal numbers calculation
Message-ID: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E80@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>


> -----Alkuper?inen viesti-----
> L?hett?j?: Jan Schenkel [mailto:janschenkel at yahoo.com]
> L?hetetty: 14. lokakuuta 2002 15:30
> Vastaanottaja: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Aihe: Re: VS: desimal numbers calculation
> 
> 
> --- Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > --- Esa_Kivel? <Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi> wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > > >   function Conv4Disp pNumber
> > > >     replace "." with "," in pNumber
> > > >     return pNumber
> > > >   end Conv4Disp
> > > >   function Conv4Calc pNumber
> > > >     replace "," with "." in pNumber
> > > >     return pNumber
> > > >   end Conv4Calc

Where I put that part of code?? I get error mesages all the time...


EsaK 


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Oct 14 07:51:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Oct 14 07:51:00 2002
Subject: dealing w/ multidimensional arrays
In-Reply-To: <17ECC44E-DF2A-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <C1701DA1-DF72-11D6-990F-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 10:04  PM, David Vaughan wrote:

>
> On Monday, Oct 14, 2002, at 13:29 Australia/Sydney, Alex Rice wrote:
>
> Alex
>
>> "... having to scan all the keys and weed out the parts..."
>
> there is "filter", or were you not really saying what it says?

Filter will work for this particular problem, but I want to point out 
it could be potentially dangerous and isn't really correct. Supposing 
you have several keys in a multidimensional array

myArr[key1,key2,key3,key4,key5] -- 5 dimensions in this array
put myArr into tArr
filter tArr with "something" -- filter by a string we know occurs in 
key1

But what if the string "something" occurs in key2,key3,key4 or key5? 
Not really what I want. If filter accepted a regex and I could say

filter tArr with "^something" -- anchor to beginning of key

that would make me feel better.

I suppose I'll write a function to trim down an array by regex 
searching on one of it's keys and returning the result.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 14 07:57:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct 14 07:57:01 2002
Subject: VS: VS: desimal numbers calculation
In-Reply-To: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E80@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>
Message-ID: <20021014125047.23901.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Esa_Kivel? <Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi> wrote:
> > > > > [snip]
> > > > >   function Conv4Disp pNumber
> > > > >     replace "." with "," in pNumber
> > > > >     return pNumber
> > > > >   end Conv4Disp
> > > > >   function Conv4Calc pNumber
> > > > >     replace "," with "." in pNumber
> > > > >     return pNumber
> > > > >   end Conv4Calc
> 
> Where I put that part of code?? I get error mesages
> all the time...
> 

Somewhere 'higher-up' in the message chain. You could
put them in the mainStack's script, or in the script
of a library stack you 'start using' on startup.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 14 08:20:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct 14 08:20:00 2002
Subject: dealing w/ multidimensional arrays
In-Reply-To: <C1701DA1-DF72-11D6-990F-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <20021014131425.18721.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 10:04  PM, David
> Vaughan wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Monday, Oct 14, 2002, at 13:29
> Australia/Sydney, Alex Rice wrote:
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >> "... having to scan all the keys and weed out the
> parts..."
> >
> > there is "filter", or were you not really saying
> what it says?
> 
> Filter will work for this particular problem, but I
> want to point out 
> it could be potentially dangerous and isn't really
> correct. Supposing 
> you have several keys in a multidimensional array
> 
> myArr[key1,key2,key3,key4,key5] -- 5 dimensions in
> this array
> put myArr into tArr
> filter tArr with "something" -- filter by a string
> we know occurs in 
> key1
> 
> But what if the string "something" occurs in
> key2,key3,key4 or key5? 
> Not really what I want. If filter accepted a regex
> and I could say
> 
> filter tArr with "^something" -- anchor to beginning
> of key
> 
> that would make me feel better.
> 

Hi Alex,

Actually, the 'filter' command works its way from left
to right, so suppose we have a multi-dimensional array
with the following keys:
firstKey1,secondKey1,thirdKey1
firstKey1,secondKey1,thirdKey2
firstKey1,secondKey2,thirdKey1
firstKey1,secondKey2,thirdKey2
firstKey1,secondKey3,thirdKey1
firstKey1,secondKey3,thirdKey2
firstKey2,secondKey1,thirdKey1
firstKey2,secondKey1,thirdKey2
firstKey2,secondKey2,thirdKey1
firstKey2,secondKey2,thirdKey2
firstKey2,secondKey3,thirdKey1
firstKey2,secondKey3,thirdKey2

You can easily get all the data you want:
  put the keys of myArray into myKeys
  filter myKeys with "firstKey1,*"

At this point myKeys will be filtered down to:
firstKey1, secondKey1, thirdKey1
firstKey1, secondKey1, thirdKey2
firstKey1, secondKey2, thirdKey1
firstKey1, secondKey2, thirdKey2
firstKey1, secondKey3, thirdKey1
firstKey1, secondKey3, thirdKey2

So if you only want the data in 
  myArray[firstKey1,secondKey3]
You would
  put the keys of myArray into myKeys
  filter myKeys with "firstKey1,secondKey3,*"

And then of course you could build a new array using
  repeat for each line tSourceKey of myKeys
    put tSourceKey into tTargetKey
    delete item 1 to 2 of tTargetKey
    put myArray[tSourceKey] into \
      myNewArray[tTargetKey]
  end repeat
Or something similar to this construction.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Oct 14 08:21:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Oct 14 08:21:01 2002
Subject: Geometry Manager
In-Reply-To: <7D5D5C58-DF44-11D6-8900-0050E4CE1D03@ldml.com>
Message-ID: <EAF0E931-DF76-11D6-990F-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 01:13  AM, Simon Forster wrote:
>
> So you're saying stick with it, that RunRev isn't bad at all? I have 
> to say that I love the idea of an easy to use, high level tool which 
> is cross platform ??it's just that the implementation seems a little 
> weak.
>
> I downloaded the try-out version earlier this week and have spent 
> around 6 hours playing with it. So far, I have had a few "this program 
> has unexpectedly quit..." dialog boxes (due to Mac OS X 10.2 
> appearance manager apparently), the Animation Manager ate my text 
> field and Geometry Manager seems, as I said, somewhat buggy in its 
> behaviour.

Try not to count the OS X appearance manager crashes towards the 
overall quality of Rev. It's unfortunate OS X is doing this appearance 
manager crash to Rev (or vice-versa) and I'm sure it will go away with 
the next release of Rev.

I haven't been using the Geometry manager or Animation manager, but 
overall I think that Revolution is pretty solid for a version 1.x 
product.

(Although the metacard base of runrev is version 4.x? I still don't 
understand the details at this level)

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Oct 14 08:35:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Oct 14 08:35:01 2002
Subject: dealing w/ multidimensional arrays
In-Reply-To: <20021014131425.18721.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F42CEC45-DF78-11D6-990F-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 07:14  AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:
> Hi Alex,
>
> Actually, the 'filter' command works its way from left
> to right, so suppose we have a multi-dimensional array
> with the following keys:
> firstKey1,secondKey1,thirdKey1
> ...

> You can easily get all the data you want:
>   put the keys of myArray into myKeys
>   filter myKeys with "firstKey1,*"
>

Ah yes, that's right. Didn't think of that. Thanks that helps,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From rpresender at earthlink.net  Mon Oct 14 09:21:00 2002
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Mon Oct 14 09:21:00 2002
Subject: SC to RR menu problem 
In-Reply-To: <200210140557.BAA00999@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <37625430-DF7F-11D6-A5BA-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 10:57  PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 6:28 AM -0700 10/13/2002, Robert Presender wrote:
>> 1.     After copying a card, in SC, it is possible to include the name
>> of the new card as a menu item(s) into a particular menu and also
>> directly include a script for this new menu item(s).
>>
>> In RR, I am able to create the new menu item(s) into the applicable 
>> btn
>> menu(of a group of menus) on the new card. I have tried many 
>> approaches
>> to create a script for the new menu item(s) without success.
>>
>> I assume that it is not possible to directly set a script for the new
>> menu item.  I also assume that the menuPick pWhich routine of the btn
>> menu has to be modified to include the case,etc routine for the new
>> menu item.
>>
>> My problem is that I haven't been able to create a script ( in the On
>> New routine  in the Main Stack script) to modify the menuPick routine
>> or whatever for the new menu item.
>
> Modifying a script is basically like modifying any other property: you 
> put
> the property into a variable, make the changes you need, then set the
> property back to the variable:
>
>   on newCard
>     put the script of button "Cards" into myScript
>     -- make changes to myScript
>     set the script of button "Cards" to myScript
>   end newCard
>
> However, it's a bit awkward to do this if the script is at all 
> complicated,
> because you have to do a bit of parsing to find the desired handler, 
> then
> add new lines without disrupting the control structures in the 
> handler. In
> this case, I would suggest instead writing a general-purpose handler 
> that
> can be used regardless of the menu contents:
>
>   on menuPick theItem -- goes in button menu script
>     if there is a card theItem then go card theItem
>     else beep -- card wasn't there
>   end menuPick
>
> This works for all card names, and doesn't require a modification every
> time you add a card - it just works off the card name in the menu, so 
> all
> you need to do is add the card name to the button's text to have the 
> menu
> routine work.
>
> If the menu has menu items other than card names, you can write 
> specific
> case structures for those items, for example:
>
>   on menuPick theItem
>     switch theItem
>     case "Previous"
>       go previous card
>       break
>     case "Next"
>       go next card
>       break
>     default -- if none of the previous cases apply:
>       if there is a card theItem then go card theItem
>       else beep
>     end switch
>   end menuPick

I added a default routine to the applicable btn menu.  It did the 
trick.  Thanks

>> 2.  In SC, when a new menu item is created in the copied card's menu,
>> the new menu item also appears in the original card's menu.  This
>> appears not to happen in RR.  Is a work around necessary to include 
>> the
>> new item in the original card's menu?
>
> If you mean the same menu bar displayed on more than one card, this 
> should
> work - the menubar group is the same object, so changes made on one 
> card
> should be reflected everywhere the group is placed. Can you say more 
> about
> how you did this, what steps you followed?

I noted, in the Application OverView, that a cloned card has a copy of 
menu group of the basic card but the basic card's applicable menu 
didn't include the new menu item of the cloned card.

Also noted that a previously cloned card's applicable menu didn't 
include the menu item of a subsequently cloned card.

The following script was added to the new card handle in the main stack 
script to accomplish the above observations:
****************
--adds a menu item with the name of the cloned cd to all cloned cards'  
btn menu.
   --this allows the user to go to another cloned card in the same stack 
when in one of the cds.
   get the number of cds of stack stkName
   repeat with x = it down to 2 -- cd 1 is the basic card
   put cr & holdName after last line of btn menux of cd x--creates & 
names the new menu item
   end repeat

   --When more than 1 cd is cloned, the basic card needs all the new 
items so that
   --any new cloned cds will now have all previous menu items in its btn 
menu.
   put cr & holdName after last line of btn menux of cd ID cdID of stack 
stkName --basic card
*******************

Any comments that you may have will be welcomed.

I now will have to script to delete the applicable menu item from all 
applicable cds when a cd is deleted.  No problem is anticipated at this 
time.

Thank you for your help Jeanne.

Regards ... Bob



From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Oct 14 10:36:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Oct 14 10:36:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
Message-ID: <D110B8D6-DF89-11D6-8D20-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

What are the constraints on file names that would allow a stack to have the 
same correct name on all (or most) Rev platforms?

And also can be on CD (read any Rev platform) and downloadable?

Any problems with spaces?

Dar Scott



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Oct 14 10:57:01 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon Oct 14 10:57:01 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards
In-Reply-To: <CE7C1419-DF5F-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOKEMFCHAA.chipp@chipp.com>

>I mentioned recently that I have another app to transfer. It contains about
a thousand
>cards in one background plus other backgrounds for help information,
storing certain lists >and summaries and so on. Planning it, I was groping
towards an interface-and-data model
>(without wishing to go right to an SQL database, although I have done that
before with an
>HC front end), so I am finding your comments on this pretty interesting.
Anyone else like
>to comment on the worth of such a transition? Or whether I should even go
straight to
>Valentina for 1,000-2,000 records? They are normally accessed individually
for single
>update rather than reported or modified en masse.

>regards
>David

David, I might try to create an XML database and either write a parser, or
(if using 1.5 or greater) use the native XML stuff. If written correctly the
first time, it should be reusable for your other projects. I believe the
native parser is extremely fast.

BTW -- a bit OT, do you have any more info or links to info on the Genetic
Algorithm you created recently? I saw your post and it piqued my interest!

Chipp



From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Oct 14 11:02:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon Oct 14 11:02:01 2002
Subject: dealing w/ multidimensional arrays
In-Reply-To: <5A42FC3A-DF15-11D6-A54F-000393529642@mindlube.com>
References: <5A42FC3A-DF15-11D6-A54F-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9d08bdffbb1@[216.229.107.105]>

>It seems that Rev only simulates support for multidimensional arrays 
>by concatenating the key together for you. It makes creating 
>multidimensional arrays easy.  That's great but how do you get the 
>data out, unless you know the entire concatenated array key before 
>hand? And how likely is that? Do I have to use regular expressions 
>to match my "multidimensional" array keys to access my data?

Alex,

I'm not sure this is pertinent to your problem, but it is possible to 
support non-keyed multidimensional arrays using multiple delimiter 
characters.  Three-dimensional example:

on putValue thevalue, at theArray,xcoord,ycoord,zcoord,xdelim,ydelim,zdelim
    set the itemDelimiter to xdelim
    put item xcoord of theArray into firstLevel
    set the itemDelimiter to ydelim
    get item ycoord of firstLevel
    set the itemDelimiter to zdelim
    put theValue into item zcoord of it
    set the itemDelimiter to ydelim
    put it into item ycoord of firstLevel
    set the itemDelimiter to xdelim
    put firstLevel into item xcoord of theArray
end putValue

functyion getValue theArray,xcoord,ycoord,zcoord,xdelim,ydelim,zdelim
    set the itemDelimiter to xdelim
    get item xcoord of theArray
    set the itemDelimiter to ydelim
    get item ycoord of it
    set the itemDelimiter to zdelim
    return item zcoord of it
end getValue
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Oct 14 11:02:11 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon Oct 14 11:02:11 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards
In-Reply-To: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOCELLCHAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOCELLCHAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9d090c5222d@[216.229.107.105]>

>I'm interested in how others use cards?

Hi Chipp,

My mainstacks, such as Serendipity Reference.rev, include one card 
per record type.  SDB database stacks, such as English Reference 
Text.sdb, include one card per record.

Both stacks include title & index cards.  OenoLog includes menu cards.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Oct 14 11:02:21 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon Oct 14 11:02:21 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs.
 Revolution)
In-Reply-To: <20021013171606.18515.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
References: <B9CD2087.1E1A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>           
 <a05100303b9cdfe41d7ce@[216.229.107.98]>           
 <20021012204932.82237.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>           
 <a05100300b9cf348ea328@[216.229.107.98]>
 <20021013171606.18515.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <a05100303b9d0935bbd95@[216.229.107.105]>

>>I think you will agree that selecting an item from a displayed list 
>>is more easily accomplished with a mouse than a keyboard.
>
>I think you would agreee that the choice of which technique is 
>easier is determined by the typing skills of the user and by whether 
>one's hands are already on the keyboard or already on the mouse.

Before I can agree, I would need to understand how one would select a 
line in a list field from the keyboard.  Via arrow keys?  By typing 
the text of the line in a field until the string produced a unique 
match from the target field?

As you say, whether one is presently focused on the keyboard or mouse 
is a major consideration.  But honestly, given the choice of keeping 
your fingers on the keyboard and typing a 50-character URL or 
grabbing the mouse & selecting it from your browser's Bookmarks menu, 
aren't you at least tempted to go for the mouse?

When my OenoLog alpha tester first saw the winemaking screen, where 
activity date & time are entered by clicking on a calendar & clock, 
he asked, "Couldn't you change this so I could just type the date and 
time?"  My response was, "Yes, I can change that if it proves to be 
too cumbersome for you; but consider this:

You are entering reasonably current transaction dates & times in 
chronological order.  In most cases the transaction calendar will 
already be showing the correct month; so you can designate date and 
time in three mouse clicks...four if you have to go to the next or 
previous month.  It takes from 13 to 18 keystrokes to type the date 
and time.

But there's more at issue than just counting keystrokes vs clicks. 
Using the mouse, one may enter an incorrect date or time (eg: 9 Sept 
02 10:45 when it was supposed to be 8 Sept 02 10:54); but one can 
NEVER enter an invalid date (eg: 32 Sept 02 10:65).  When one clicks 
on a grape variety on a list, one can select chardonnay when the 
grapes were zinfandel; but one cannot enter 'chardonay' or 
'zinfandelle'."

OenoLog still captures date & time via the mouse.

I guess I'm suggesting focusing your annoyance on the programmer 
whose design has you switching back & forth between mouse & keyboard 
rather than on the mouse itself.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Oct 14 11:06:00 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon Oct 14 11:06:00 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <D110B8D6-DF89-11D6-8D20-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOCEMGCHAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Dar,

I think I would leave spaces out. I just do a replace space with "_" in
tfilename then the reverse. I'm not sure about the ISO standard on CD's, but
I do remember it being sparse. You should always be save with a 8.3 format.
Also, you might want to check the MacToISO function as well (if you want to
use any special characters)

-Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dar Scott
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 10:30 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Portable file names
>
>
> What are the constraints on file names that would allow a stack
> to have the
> same correct name on all (or most) Rev platforms?
>
> And also can be on CD (read any Rev platform) and downloadable?
>
> Any problems with spaces?
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From lrivers at realsoftware.com  Mon Oct 14 11:19:00 2002
From: lrivers at realsoftware.com (Lorin Rivers)
Date: Mon Oct 14 11:19:00 2002
Subject: Windows ease of use (was:  REALbasic vs. Revolution)
In-Reply-To: <200210122201.SAA28764@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9D04E93.3808E%lrivers@realsoftware.com>

On 10/12/02 5:01 PM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:09:34 -0700
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> From: Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net>
> Subject: Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> 
>> This is where the Mac shines versus Windows, in my opinion.
> 
> Loren, et al:
> 
> I owned an original 64K IBM PC, but left the Intel world before
> Windows.  In retrospect, it would be a lot easier for me to respond
> if I had as much experience supporting Windows users as I have
> supporting Mac users.
> 
> While it seems to me Windows users encounter more difficulties with
> installation & reconfiguration issues than Mac users, I have seen
> little direct evidence that they have more difficulty learning or
> using software.
> -- 
> 
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm
> 
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
> 
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

The only data I have is that Mac users tend to own and use more software
than Windows users do, but I don't have a reference to support that so maybe
I just made it up.

As an expert Windows user, expert NeXTSTEP user, and expert Mac user, it's
my opinion that Macs ARE easier to use, day to day. I could be wrong, I've
been wrong before.

-- 
Lorin Rivers                      mailto:lrivers at realsoftware.com
Vice President of Marketing       512.328.REAL (7325) x712 v
REAL Software                     512.328.7372 f
1705 South Capital of Texas Hwy.  http://www.realsoftware.com
Suite 310                         REALbasic: the powerful, easy-to-use
Austin, Texas 78746               tool for creating your own software
                                  for Macintosh, Mac OS X, and Windows.



From rodmc at runrev.com  Mon Oct 14 11:37:00 2002
From: rodmc at runrev.com (Rod McCall)
Date: Mon Oct 14 11:37:00 2002
Subject: Windows ease of use (was:  REALbasic vs. Revolution)
In-Reply-To: <B9D04E93.3808E%lrivers@realsoftware.com>
References: <200210122201.SAA28764@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014171918.026aeeb0@mail.spamcop.net>

Lorin Rivers wrote:

>As an expert Windows user, expert NeXTSTEP user, and expert Mac user, it's
>my opinion that Macs ARE easier to use, day to day. I could be wrong, I've
>been wrong before.

You are probably quite right!

The theory is perhaps also backed up by the number of people I know who are 
into human-factors and ergonomics who own/use Macs. While PC's may still 
dominate in raw terms, I've seen a much higher percentage of Mac users in 
these fields than in almost any other area of computing.

cheers,

rod

Rod McCall  <www.runrev.com>
Runtime Revolution Ltd
Revolution - The Solution for Software Development
tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165 fax: +44 (0) 131 718 4334



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Mon Oct 14 12:21:01 2002
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Mon Oct 14 12:21:01 2002
Subject: The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs. Revolution)
In-Reply-To: <a05100303b9d0935bbd95@[216.229.107.105]> 
References: <B9CD2087.1E1A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
            <a05100303b9cdfe41d7ce@[216.229.107.98]>
            <20021012204932.82237.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
            <a05100300b9cf348ea328@[216.229.107.98]>
            <20021013171606.18515.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
            <a05100303b9d0935bbd95@[216.229.107.105]>
Message-ID: <20021014171554.63119.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Rob Cozens writes: 

> 
>>> I think you will agree that selecting an item from a displayed list is 
>>> more easily accomplished with a mouse than a keyboard.
>> 
>> I think you would agreee that the choice of which technique is easier is 
>> determined by the typing skills of the user and by whether one's hands 
>> are already on the keyboard or already on the mouse.
> 
> Before I can agree, I would need to understand how one would select a line 
> in a list field from the keyboard.  Via arrow keys?  By typing the text of 
> the line in a field until the string produced a unique match from the 
> target field? 
> 
> As you say, whether one is presently focused on the keyboard or mouse is a 
> major consideration.  But honestly, given the choice of keeping your 
> fingers on the keyboard and typing a 50-character URL or grabbing the 
> mouse & selecting it from your browser's Bookmarks menu, aren't you at 
> least tempted to go for the mouse? 
> 
That is a good example. But because you said the URL is ALREADY in the 
Bookmarks menu, I don't do any typing of the URL. I use IE so my "Bookmarks" 
are accessible as follows: Alt-a opens the Favorites menu; EITHER scroll 
down with the arrow key OR type the first letter on anentry to select it. 
Press Enter to launch it. 

So, I have to ask, if you don't have a link to cut-and-paste the URL using 
the mouse(say a friend wrote it by hand on a piece of paper), how is it 
going to get into your Bookmark menu to begin with? 

Your comments that amount to making selections via the mouse versus typing 
eliminates typograhical errors is indeed a good reason to present the user a 
means of NOT typing data. However, all of your examples can still be 
implemented via the keyboard.  All said though, for your particluar 
application that has been designed around "mousing", it is a sound approach. 
And especially for people that are not proficient with the keyboard 

> I guess I'm suggesting focusing your annoyance on the programmer whose 
> design has you switching back & forth between mouse & keyboard rather than 
> on the mouse itself.
 

miscdas 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct 14 12:24:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon Oct 14 12:24:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
References: <D110B8D6-DF89-11D6-8D20-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <000701c273a5$2b0dadb0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Dar,

On Mac you can't use the colon (:).

On Windows you can't use any of these: \ /:*?"<> |

Macs (pre OS X) have maximum of 31 characters in the name of a file or
folder, Windows is 255 (I think Mac OS X is 255 as well).

Spaces shouldn't be a problem, IMHO.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


" <dsc at swcp.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 10:30 AM
Subject: Portable file names


> What are the constraints on file names that would allow a stack to have
the
> same correct name on all (or most) Rev platforms?
>
> And also can be on CD (read any Rev platform) and downloadable?
>
> Any problems with spaces?
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Oct 14 13:06:01 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon Oct 14 13:06:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <000701c273a5$2b0dadb0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCIEMKDEAA.chipp@chipp.com>

I defer to Ken on these things...I probably 'steer away' from spaces because
of the problems getting files with them up to and off of servers.

-Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ray
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 12:15 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Portable file names
>
>
> Dar,
>
> On Mac you can't use the colon (:).
>
> On Windows you can't use any of these: \ /:*?"<> |
>
> Macs (pre OS X) have maximum of 31 characters in the name of a file or
> folder, Windows is 255 (I think Mac OS X is 255 as well).
>
> Spaces shouldn't be a problem, IMHO.
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> " <dsc at swcp.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 10:30 AM
> Subject: Portable file names
>
>
> > What are the constraints on file names that would allow a stack to have
> the
> > same correct name on all (or most) Rev platforms?
> >
> > And also can be on CD (read any Rev platform) and downloadable?
> >
> > Any problems with spaces?
> >
> > Dar Scott
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Mon Oct 14 14:53:01 2002
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Mon Oct 14 14:53:01 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards
In-Reply-To: <CE7C1419-DF5F-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
References: <CE7C1419-DF5F-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9d0b2f34ef8@[188.9.94.76]>

At 8:29 PM +1000 10/14/02, David Vaughan wrote:
>I mentioned recently that I have another app to transfer. It contains about a thousand cards in one background plus other backgrounds for help information, storing certain lists and summaries and so on. Planning it, I was groping towards an interface-and-data model (without wishing to go right to an SQL database, although I have done that before with an HC front end), so I am finding your comments on this pretty interesting. Anyone else like to comment on the worth of such a transition? Or whether I should even go straight to Valentina for 1,000-2,000 records? They are normally accessed individually for single update rather than reported or modified en masse.

For 1,000 to 2,000 records, plain text or arrays will be fine. Cards would be too, but I've tried creating stacks with ten thousand cards, and performance suffers. With arrays or text, you can easily go to 10,000 records or so, depending on what your base platform is for deployment. You can stretch arrays and plain text to a few tens of thousands of records with little extra effort, but eventually memory becomes an issue. When that happens is your call.
-- 

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Mon Oct 14 17:46:01 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Mon Oct 14 17:46:01 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards (combined)
In-Reply-To: <a05100301b9d0b2f34ef8@[188.9.94.76]>
Message-ID: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Tuesday, Oct 15, 2002, at 03:46 Australia/Sydney, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> At 8:29 PM +1000 10/14/02, David Vaughan wrote:
snip
> For 1,000 to 2,000 records, plain text or arrays will be fine. Cards 
> would be too, but I've tried creating stacks with ten thousand cards, 
> and performance suffers. With arrays or text, you can easily go to 
> 10,000 records or so, depending on what your base platform is for 
> deployment. You can stretch arrays and plain text to a few tens of 
> thousands of records with little extra effort, but eventually memory 
> becomes an issue. When that happens is your call.
> -- 
On Tuesday, Oct 15, 2002, at 01:51 Australia/Sydney, Chipp Walters 
wrote:
snip
> David, I might try to create an XML database and either write a 
> parser, or
> (if using 1.5 or greater) use the native XML stuff. If written 
> correctly the
> first time, it should be reusable for your other projects. I believe 
> the
> native parser is extremely fast.
>
> BTW -- a bit OT, do you have any more info or links to info on the 
> Genetic
> Algorithm you created recently? I saw your post and it piqued my 
> interest!
>

Geoff, Chipp

Thanks for your comments. I am comfortable with using arrays, 
structured lists and custom props so I can take that further but I will 
have a look at Chipp's XML thought before I finally go ahead. This is 
not commercial so my only pressure is to relinquish the last thing 
running in HC/Classic. I have 1.5A7 but might wait until I get my eager 
mitts on 2.0 and then decide.

Chipp, re GA

You remind me that Monte is waiting for a further response on the same 
topic (sorry Monte; I had Uni over the weekend; this may answer 
anyway). To gather information I used a Google search on some likely 
keywords and found some informative sites but did not record them. The 
approach I used was itself a selection and combination of approaches 
(how appropriate :-)):
- Relatively small population (the number of source elements up to 
twice that).
- 100% replacement after two elites.
- Best-of-three tournament selection of each mate each mating.
- Randomised crossover of genes with two children produced 
independently with replacement.
- Mutation of all factors where total mutation rate is around 0.5-1.5% 
and factor mutated is randomly sub-selected.
- Mutatory options include replacement by random new individual
- Clones exterminated and replaced.

Stopping rule is within a user-selected level of precision or when the 
user clicks the Stop button (current generation, generation of last 
change, and current values and discrepancy are updated on screen).

I found this approach robust, effective and quick enough, by which I 
mean seconds to minutes, not hours to overnight. Provided you can 
single-score the result (allowing also weighted combination of factors) 
this will work well for optimisation tasks and produces something 
end-users can employ. I had earlier considered the IP aspects but I am 
pretty well occupied by my day job so I am happy to send a copy of my 
sample stack as acknowledgeware (if you use my ideas, mention it) and 
to provide some assistance if desired.

regards
David
>
> regards,
>
> Geoff Canyon
> gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From alanIra9 at mac.com  Mon Oct 14 18:29:01 2002
From: alanIra9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Mon Oct 14 18:29:01 2002
Subject: questions re button behavior
In-Reply-To: <20021013071551.59844.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4E5B00EE-DFCB-11D6-9E90-000393158950@mac.com>

Greetings List!

I've got several questions about button behavior:

1.	I've recently created a number of "popUp" menu buttons with 3 to 7 
lines of content.  No matter how I fiddle the settings I can't seem to 
get these to show a border - I've made sure that the "show border" check 
box is checked and that works fine with "pulldown" menu buttons, but not 
on the "popUp".  I want to use the "popUp" style because I want the 
menus to appear off to the side, not straight down.  This is probably 
something simple - but I haven't been able to figure it out.

2.	Is it possible to set the label of a "pulldown" button to one font 
and the menu list to another?

3.	I've created a tab button whose background color changes depending 
on the menuPick choice.  This works fine in OS 9.2.2, but no color 
appears at all in OS X 10.1.5.  This behavior does not seem to apply to 
other button styles.  Is this a limitation of the appearance manager 
which I will have to live with?

Thanks in advance,

Alan



From alanIra9 at mac.com  Mon Oct 14 18:42:01 2002
From: alanIra9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Mon Oct 14 18:42:01 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards
In-Reply-To: <a05100301b9d0b2f34ef8@[188.9.94.76]>
Message-ID: <0B9CC2C1-DFCD-11D6-9E90-000393158950@mac.com>

Geoff:

This sounds like what I'm looking for.  However, I have NO experience 
with storing data in arrays - other than the very simple "lines & items" 
approach frequently utilized in Hypercard - and this mostly for short 
term storage in local variables.

I would certainly appreciate if you could possibly give a small example 
of how data might be saved to such an array and then how a particular 
record might then be displayed.  Also, how would searching and sorting 
be handled in such an arrangement?

Like I said, I would really appreciate help on this topic as I'm really 
trying to break free of my old Hypercard way of doing things.

Thanks in advance,

Alan
On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 01:46  PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> At 8:29 PM +1000 10/14/02, David Vaughan wrote:
>> I mentioned recently that I have another app to transfer. It contains 
>> about a thousand cards in one background plus other backgrounds for 
>> help information, storing certain lists and summaries and so on. 
>> Planning it, I was groping towards an interface-and-data model 
>> (without wishing to go right to an SQL database, although I have done 
>> that before with an HC front end), so I am finding your comments on 
>> this pretty interesting. Anyone else like to comment on the worth of 
>> such a transition? Or whether I should even go straight to Valentina 
>> for 1,000-2,000 records? They are normally accessed individually for 
>> single update rather than reported or modified en masse.
>
> For 1,000 to 2,000 records, plain text or arrays will be fine. Cards 
> would be too, but I've tried creating stacks with ten thousand cards, 
> and performance suffers. With arrays or text, you can easily go to 
> 10,000 records or so, depending on what your base platform is for 
> deployment. You can stretch arrays and plain text to a few tens of 
> thousands of records with little extra effort, but eventually memory 
> becomes an issue. When that happens is your call.
> --
>
> regards,
>
> Geoff Canyon
> gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From simon-lists at ldml.com  Mon Oct 14 21:12:01 2002
From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster)
Date: Mon Oct 14 21:12:01 2002
Subject: Rev's popup buttons lock me out
Message-ID: <AE5BB7D1-DFE2-11D6-A4F1-0050E4CE1D03@ldml.com>

Using Revolution, once I've got one of the popup menus showing - 
typically in the Transcript Dictionary, I'm unable to apply focus to 
any other element. What I have to do is bring another application to 
the foreground and then return to Revolution.

Is this just me?

Is there a more elegant method of regaining control?

Thanks

Simon Forster
_________________________________________________
BabelFix Ltd, Office One, 16 Canham Road, London, W3 7SR, UK
<tel int="+44 20 8746 0555" uk="020 8746 0555">
<tel int="+44 70 9230 5244" uk="070 9230 5244">
<fax int="+44 70 9230 5247" uk="070 9230 5247">
<mailto:simon at babelfix.com>
_________________________________________________



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct 14 21:20:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon Oct 14 21:20:01 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards (combined)
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

David,

If you want a free XML parser for Rev 1.5 and higher, check out the XML
Library at:

  http://www.sonsothunder.com/products/metacard/xmllib.htm

Enjoy!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Vaughan" <dvk at dvkconsult.com.au>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: Database vs Cards (combined)


> On Tuesday, Oct 15, 2002, at 03:46 Australia/Sydney, Geoff Canyon wrote:
>
> > At 8:29 PM +1000 10/14/02, David Vaughan wrote:
> snip
> > For 1,000 to 2,000 records, plain text or arrays will be fine. Cards
> > would be too, but I've tried creating stacks with ten thousand cards,
> > and performance suffers. With arrays or text, you can easily go to
> > 10,000 records or so, depending on what your base platform is for
> > deployment. You can stretch arrays and plain text to a few tens of
> > thousands of records with little extra effort, but eventually memory
> > becomes an issue. When that happens is your call.
> > --
> On Tuesday, Oct 15, 2002, at 01:51 Australia/Sydney, Chipp Walters
> wrote:
> snip
> > David, I might try to create an XML database and either write a
> > parser, or
> > (if using 1.5 or greater) use the native XML stuff. If written
> > correctly the
> > first time, it should be reusable for your other projects. I believe
> > the
> > native parser is extremely fast.
> >
> > BTW -- a bit OT, do you have any more info or links to info on the
> > Genetic
> > Algorithm you created recently? I saw your post and it piqued my
> > interest!
> >
>
> Geoff, Chipp
>
> Thanks for your comments. I am comfortable with using arrays,
> structured lists and custom props so I can take that further but I will
> have a look at Chipp's XML thought before I finally go ahead. This is
> not commercial so my only pressure is to relinquish the last thing
> running in HC/Classic. I have 1.5A7 but might wait until I get my eager
> mitts on 2.0 and then decide.
>
> Chipp, re GA
>
> You remind me that Monte is waiting for a further response on the same
> topic (sorry Monte; I had Uni over the weekend; this may answer
> anyway). To gather information I used a Google search on some likely
> keywords and found some informative sites but did not record them. The
> approach I used was itself a selection and combination of approaches
> (how appropriate :-)):
> - Relatively small population (the number of source elements up to
> twice that).
> - 100% replacement after two elites.
> - Best-of-three tournament selection of each mate each mating.
> - Randomised crossover of genes with two children produced
> independently with replacement.
> - Mutation of all factors where total mutation rate is around 0.5-1.5%
> and factor mutated is randomly sub-selected.
> - Mutatory options include replacement by random new individual
> - Clones exterminated and replaced.
>
> Stopping rule is within a user-selected level of precision or when the
> user clicks the Stop button (current generation, generation of last
> change, and current values and discrepancy are updated on screen).
>
> I found this approach robust, effective and quick enough, by which I
> mean seconds to minutes, not hours to overnight. Provided you can
> single-score the result (allowing also weighted combination of factors)
> this will work well for optimisation tasks and produces something
> end-users can employ. I had earlier considered the IP aspects but I am
> pretty well occupied by my day job so I am happy to send a copy of my
> sample stack as acknowledgeware (if you use my ideas, mention it) and
> to provide some assistance if desired.
>
> regards
> David
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Geoff Canyon
> > gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Mon Oct 14 23:12:01 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon Oct 14 23:12:01 2002
Subject: Database vs Cards (combined)
In-Reply-To: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEGFCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Thanks David

I'll search google. I can understand the general concept at this stage but
how each of these stages is performed is a mystery to me ath the moment.

> - Relatively small population (the number of source elements up to
> twice that).
> - 100% replacement after two elites.
> - Best-of-three tournament selection of each mate each mating.
> - Randomised crossover of genes with two children produced
> independently with replacement.
> - Mutation of all factors where total mutation rate is around 0.5-1.5%
> and factor mutated is randomly sub-selected.
> - Mutatory options include replacement by random new individual
> - Clones exterminated and replaced.
>

Cheers

Monte



From katir at hindu.org  Tue Oct 15 00:08:04 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Tue Oct 15 00:08:04 2002
Subject: libUrlFtpCommand not working?
Message-ID: <7149220F-DFFB-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

Goal: be able to move a file from one directory to another under ftp 
control with FTP command "mv"

so, we try to take the new libURL syntax for a walk (thank you Dave 
Cragg!)

get libUrlFtpCommand("PWD","myDomain.org","myLogInName","myPassword")
answer it

result : 257 "/" is current directory

so far so good; but, I can't get to first base with

get libUrlFtpCommand("ls","myDomain.org","myLogInName","myPassword")
answer it

I should get a listing, but instead

500 "LS" command not understood

same for "cd public_html"

500 "CD public_html" command not understood.

Any clues?

Thanks!
Himalayan Academy Publications
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
katir at hindu.org
www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org



From Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi  Tue Oct 15 01:53:01 2002
From: Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Esa_Kivel=E4?=)
Date: Tue Oct 15 01:53:01 2002
Subject: VS: desimal numbers calculation
Message-ID: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E85@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>


> -----Alkuper?inen viesti-----
> L?hett?j?: Jan Schenkel [mailto:janschenkel at yahoo.com]
> L?hetetty: 14. lokakuuta 2002 14:57
> Vastaanottaja: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Aihe: Re: desimal numbers calculation
> 
> 
> --- Esa_Kivel? <Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi> wrote:
> > Greetings
> > 
> > Some newbie question:
> > 
> > I tried to calculate desimal numbers in RR but how
> > can code some calculation. 
> >  
> > In the card I have some text filed where users put
> > some numbers like 0,5, 3,4 and so on. 
> >  
> > In some field I'd like to show those fields result
> > as ie. 0,5 + 3,4 and so on but that + operator in
> > the script won't calculate desimal numbers. 
> >  
> > Is there any other way to sum those desimal numbers?
> > 
> >  
> > Yours 
> >  
> > EsaK 
> >
> 
> Hi Esa,
> 
> RunRev expects numeric data to have a decimal point.
> Therefore, you'll have to convert between 'display'
> and 'calculation' format before and after calculation.
> If you don't need thousand separators, then it's as
> easy as:
>   function Conv4Disp pNumber
>     replace "." with "," in pNumber
>     return pNumber
>   end Conv4Disp
>   function Conv4Calc pNumber
>     replace "," with "." in pNumber
>     return pNumber
>   end Conv4Calc
> 
> Hope this helped,

More simple that that is this code. Some text field calulates others text fields desimal numbers "on the fly":

on idle
  set the itemdel to ","
  put item 1 of field "seitsem?n" + item 1 of field "kahdeksan" + \
      item 1 of field "yhdeks?n" + item 1 of field id 1028 + item 1 of field id 1027 \
      + item 1 of field "kaksitoista" + item 1 of field "kolmetoista" \
      + item 1 of field "nelj?toista" + item 1 of field "viisitoista" \
      + item 1 of field "kuusitoista" + item 1 of field "seitsem?ntoista" into field "18"
  
end idle

And itse works!

Many tahnks for help to the those who answer to my problem :-)

EsaK


From dan at danshafer.com  Tue Oct 15 01:53:25 2002
From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue Oct 15 01:53:25 2002
Subject: Rev's popup buttons lock me out
Message-ID: <a05200a01b9d16a8ecf80@[63.205.23.218]>

At 12:09 AM -0400 10/15/02, Sim Forster wrote:
>Using Revolution, once I've got one of the popup menus showing -
>typically in the Transcript Dictionary, I'm unable to apply focus to
>any other element. What I have to do is bring another application to
>the foreground and then return to Revolution.
>
>Is this just me?
>
>Is there a more elegant method of regaining control?

This is one of those UI things in Rev that drives me nuts!

The only way I've found to get out of the problem is to hit the ESC 
key. That closes the menu. Prety opaque and not standard, but there 
you have it.
-- 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.danshafer.com
831-392-1127 Voice - 831-401-2531 Fax


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Oct 15 02:41:01 2002
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue Oct 15 02:41:01 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
 <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>

Can anyone tell me if the function:

  get specialFolderpath(26) -- user's Application Data folder

works on all versions of Windows?  I can use it here with my Mac
running VirtualPC Windows 98 but have no PC to test with otherwise...

Does it work with 95 - 98 - etc.? Is there a problem using it with NT as
suggested by Dave Cragg below?

atb

sims

>There is an "all users" Applications Data folder for data that is
>application-specific, and also a folder for each user that can be
>used for user-specific data.
>
>You can get the path to these folders using the  specialfolderpath
>function. Tuv Snyder revealed on the list some time back how this
>function can be extended beyond the default "special folders" by
>passing an integer that corresponds to the Windows API
>SHGetFolderPath  value/constant. The values for the "Applications
>Data" folders are:
>
>get specialFolderPath(35) -- common Application Data folder
>
>get specialFolderpath(26) -- user's Application Data folder
>
>I think the idea is that you should make a folder for your own
>application in these places.
>
>Warning:  This works fine for me on XP. But I just tested the
>function with these values on NT 4.0 and Metacard crashed. This may
>be my machine as my NT installation has been acting up recently.
>Perhaps someone can confirm whether this is working reliably on other
>Windows versions.
>
>Cheers
>Dave Cragg



From Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi  Tue Oct 15 03:08:01 2002
From: Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Esa_Kivel=E4?=)
Date: Tue Oct 15 03:08:01 2002
Subject: error at left operand?
Message-ID: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E87@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>

I have code:

on idle
  set the itemdel to ","
  put item 1 of field "huu" + item 1 of field "buu" + item 1 of field "suu" into field "28"

end idle

and I get error message: "  * There was an Execution Error at 10:58:55 AM
Error description:  Operators +: error in left operand
Object: field id 1066 of card id 1002 of stack "C:/Program Files/Revolution 1.1.1/resusrssikortti.rev"
--------------------
put item 1 of field "huu" + item 1 of field "buu" + item 1 of field "suu" into field "28"
--------------------"

What that mean?

EsaK


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Oct 15 03:50:04 2002
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue Oct 15 03:50:04 2002
Subject: libUrlFtpCommand not working?
In-Reply-To: <7149220F-DFFB-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
References: <7149220F-DFFB-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <p05111b01b9d17a9974c5@[192.168.123.3]>

At 7:03 pm -1000 14/10/02, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>Goal: be able to move a file from one directory to another under ftp 
>control with FTP command "mv"
>
>so, we try to take the new libURL syntax for a walk (thank you Dave Cragg!)
>
>get libUrlFtpCommand("PWD","myDomain.org","myLogInName","myPassword")
>answer it
>
>result : 257 "/" is current directory
>
>so far so good; but, I can't get to first base with
>
>get libUrlFtpCommand("ls","myDomain.org","myLogInName","myPassword")
>answer it
>
>I should get a listing, but instead
>
>500 "LS" command not understood
>
>same for "cd public_html"
>
>500 "CD public_html" command not understood.
>
>Any clues?

It seems to me it's working fine. It's telling you it doesn't 
understand the commands you are sending. :)

To find what commands the server implements, set a log field using 
libUrlSetLogField, and then  send the ftp "HELP" command. The 
commands should appear in the log between lines that start with 214. 
As far as I know, neither MV or LS are standard ftp commands. 
(Perhaps you need telnet and not ftp.)

Try sending "SITE HELP" to find out what specific "SITE" commands are 
implemented. These commands not part of the FTP standard command set, 
and are sent by using "SITE" followed by the  command name. For 
example, "SITE CHMOD 755"

You should probably refer to rfc 0959 or another FTP reference for 
information about the commands.

<http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc959.html>

But to move a file, put url <url_1> into url <url_2> should work. (A 
bit heavy on the bandwidth perhaps.) And then delete the first file 
with: delete url <url_1>

Cheers
Dave


From simon at babelfix.com  Tue Oct 15 03:52:00 2002
From: simon at babelfix.com (Simon Forster)
Date: Tue Oct 15 03:52:00 2002
Subject: Popup Menu - Show on mouse over
Message-ID: <0BD0BCFC-DFE1-11D6-A4F1-0050E4CE1D03@babelfix.com>

I'm struggling to get to grips with RunRev's syntax. The simple example 
I've set myself is to show the contents of a popup menu on mouse over. 
I have the menu button and, on clicking it, it shows the menu content. 
To do the same on mouse over, I'm using the objects "on mouse enter" 
function. But once I've checked that we're over the right button, what 
command do I use to show the button's content?

TIA

Simon Forster
_________________________________________________
BabelFix Ltd, Office One, 16 Canham Road, London, W3 7SR, UK
<tel int="+44 20 8746 0555" uk="020 8746 0555">
<tel int="+44 70 9230 5244" uk="070 9230 5244">
<fax int="+44 70 9230 5247" uk="070 9230 5247">
<mailto:simon at babelfix.com>
_________________________________________________



From michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk  Tue Oct 15 04:08:01 2002
From: michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk (Michael Kristensen)
Date: Tue Oct 15 04:08:01 2002
Subject: Repeatloop in mouseDown handler wont end
In-Reply-To: <200210150410.AAA28746@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A161CDDA-E01C-11D6-938C-0050E405EA7D@dsa-net.dk>

Hi all

There is a very annoying bug that show itself in both my own stacks and 
in Revolutions UI.

Its in mouseDown handlers with a repeatloop like this:

on mouseDown
    --script
repeat while the mouse is down
    --script
end repeat
end mouseDown


In appr. 1 out of 5 times the repeatloop wont end.

It can also be seen in the Object Property Palette where
it will happen in one of the four move-buttons.

Nothing can stop the repeatloop except  to kill Revolution.



Kind regards
Michael Kristensen 



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 15 04:11:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Oct 15 04:11:01 2002
Subject: error at left operand?
In-Reply-To:  <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E87@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>
Message-ID: <B9D12861.1E402%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Esa Kivel? wrote:

> I have code:
> 
> on idle
> set the itemdel to ","
> put item 1 of field "huu" + item 1 of field "buu" + item 1 of field "suu" into
> field "28"
> 
> end idle
> 
> and I get error message: "  * There was an Execution Error at 10:58:55 AM
> Error description:  Operators +: error in left operand
> Object: field id 1066 of card id 1002 of stack "C:/Program Files/Revolution
> 1.1.1/resusrssikortti.rev"
> --------------------
> put item 1 of field "huu" + item 1 of field "buu" + item 1 of field "suu" into
> field "28"
> --------------------"
> 
> What that mean?

Try clarifying it for the interpreter with parentheses:

 put (item 1 of field "huu") + (item 1 of field "buu") + (item 1 of field
"suu") into field "28"

Also, make sure the data in item 1 is numeric.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi  Tue Oct 15 04:17:03 2002
From: Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Esa_Kivel=E4?=)
Date: Tue Oct 15 04:17:03 2002
Subject: VS: error at left operand?
Message-ID: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E89@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>


> -----Alkuper?inen viesti-----
> L?hett?j?: Richard Gaskin [mailto:ambassador at fourthworld.com]
> L?hetetty: 15. lokakuuta 2002 12:05
> Vastaanottaja: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Aihe: Re: error at left operand?
> 
> 
> Esa Kivel? wrote:
> 
> > I have code:
> > 
> > on idle
> > set the itemdel to ","
> > put item 1 of field "huu" + item 1 of field "buu" + item 1 
> of field "suu" into
> > field "28"
> > 
> > end idle
> > 
> > and I get error message: "  * There was an Execution Error 
> at 10:58:55 AM
> > Error description:  Operators +: error in left operand
> > Object: field id 1066 of card id 1002 of stack "C:/Program 
> Files/Revolution
> > 1.1.1/resusrssikortti.rev"
> > --------------------
> > put item 1 of field "huu" + item 1 of field "buu" + item 1 
> of field "suu" into
> > field "28"
> > --------------------"
> > 
> > What that mean?
> 
> Try clarifying it for the interpreter with parentheses:
> 
>  put (item 1 of field "huu") + (item 1 of field "buu") + 
> (item 1 of field
> "suu") into field "28"
> 
> Also, make sure the data in item 1 is numeric.

Tried and get that error message:

" * There was an Execution Error at 12:10:16 PM
Error description:  Operators +: error in left operand
Object: field id 1066 of card id 1002 of stack "C:/Program Files/Revolution 1.1.1/resusrssikortti.rev"
--------------------
put (item 1 of field "huu") + (item 1 of field "buu") + (item 1 of field "suu") into field "28"
--------------------
Value: idle" 


From Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi  Tue Oct 15 04:23:00 2002
From: Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Esa_Kivel=E4?=)
Date: Tue Oct 15 04:23:00 2002
Subject: VS: error at left operand?
Message-ID: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E8A@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>


> -----Alkuper?inen viesti-----
> L?hett?j?: Richard Gaskin [mailto:ambassador at fourthworld.com]
> L?hetetty: 15. lokakuuta 2002 12:05
> Vastaanottaja: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Aihe: Re: error at left operand?
> 
> 
> Esa Kivel? wrote:
> 
> > I have code:
> > 
> > on idle
> > set the itemdel to ","
> > put item 1 of field "huu" + item 1 of field "buu" + item 1 
> of field "suu" into
> > field "28"
> > 
> > end idle
> > 
> > and I get error message: "  * There was an Execution Error 
> at 10:58:55 AM
> > Error description:  Operators +: error in left operand
> > Object: field id 1066 of card id 1002 of stack "C:/Program 
> Files/Revolution
> > 1.1.1/resusrssikortti.rev"
> > --------------------
> > put item 1 of field "huu" + item 1 of field "buu" + item 1 
> of field "suu" into
> > field "28"
> > --------------------"
> > 
> > What that mean?
> 
> Try clarifying it for the interpreter with parentheses:
> 
>  put (item 1 of field "huu") + (item 1 of field "buu") + 
> (item 1 of field
> "suu") into field "28"
> 
> Also, make sure the data in item 1 is numeric.

That error message gomes when text field is empty or there is one space (spacebar) in the field...werid...

EsaK 


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 15 06:16:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Oct 15 06:16:01 2002
Subject: VS: error at left operand?
In-Reply-To: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E8A@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>
Message-ID: <20021015111040.52304.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Esa_Kivel? <Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi> wrote:
> 
> 
> > -----Alkuper?inen viesti-----
> > L?hett?j?: Richard Gaskin
> [mailto:ambassador at fourthworld.com]
> > L?hetetty: 15. lokakuuta 2002 12:05
> > Vastaanottaja: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Aihe: Re: error at left operand?
> > 
> > 
> > Esa Kivel? wrote:
> > 
> > > I have code:
> > > 
> > > on idle
> > > set the itemdel to ","
> > > put item 1 of field "huu" + item 1 of field
> "buu" + item 1 
> > of field "suu" into
> > > field "28"
> > > 
> > > end idle
> > > 
> > > and I get error message: "  * There was an
> Execution Error 
> > at 10:58:55 AM
> > > Error description:  Operators +: error in left
> operand
> > > Object: field id 1066 of card id 1002 of stack
> "C:/Program 
> > Files/Revolution
> > > 1.1.1/resusrssikortti.rev"
> > > --------------------
> > > put item 1 of field "huu" + item 1 of field
> "buu" + item 1 
> > of field "suu" into
> > > field "28"
> > > --------------------"
> > > 
> > > What that mean?
> > 
> > Try clarifying it for the interpreter with
> parentheses:
> > 
> >  put (item 1 of field "huu") + (item 1 of field
> "buu") + 
> > (item 1 of field
> > "suu") into field "28"
> > 
> > Also, make sure the data in item 1 is numeric.
> 
> That error message gomes when text field is empty or
> there is one space (spacebar) in the
> field...werid...
> 
> EsaK 


Hi Esa,

Might I suggest a different approach?

- In all the data fields that need to be summed up,
set the script to:
  on closeField
    -- is only sent if something has changed
    send "calculateMe" to field "28"
  end closeField

- Now set the script of the "sum" field to
  on calculateMe
    -- calculate the sum of the part fields
    put "huu,buu" into tFields
    -- you can add more fields above
    repeat for each item tItem of tFields
      get item 1 of field tItem
      -- the default itemDelimiter is a comma anyway
      if it is not a number then add it to tSum
    end repeat
    put tSum into me
  end calculateMe

Now the sum will only be updated whenever any of the
parts changes, not gobbling up CPU cycles when nothing
has to be recalculated.
Plus, it checks for empty fields and doesn't try to
add those, avoiding the problem.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 15 06:32:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Oct 15 06:32:01 2002
Subject: Repeatloop in mouseDown handler wont end
In-Reply-To: <A161CDDA-E01C-11D6-938C-0050E405EA7D@dsa-net.dk>
Message-ID: <20021015112602.65211.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Kristensen <michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk>
wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> There is a very annoying bug that show itself in
> both my own stacks and 
> in Revolutions UI.
> 
> Its in mouseDown handlers with a repeatloop like
> this:
> 
> on mouseDown
>     --script
> repeat while the mouse is down
>     --script
> end repeat
> end mouseDown
> 
> 
> In appr. 1 out of 5 times the repeatloop wont end.
> 
> It can also be seen in the Object Property Palette
> where
> it will happen in one of the four move-buttons.
> 
> Nothing can stop the repeatloop except  to kill
> Revolution.
> 
> 
> 
> Kind regards
> Michael Kristensen 
> 

Hi Michael,

It has to do with the moment the state of the mouse is
checked. Maybe you could rescript your button so that
it uses the mouseRelease event ?
Example:

on mouseDown
  send "updateMe" to me in 50 milliseconds
  -- or however quick you like
end mouseDown

on mouseRelease
  if "updateMe" is in the pendingMessages then
    cancel "updateMe"
  end if
end mouseRelease

on updateMe
  -- do your stuff here
  -- ...
  -- now call yourself however quick you like
  if "updateMe" is not in the pendingMessages then
    send "updateMe" to me in 50 milliseconds
  end if
end updateThings

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 15 06:37:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Oct 15 06:37:00 2002
Subject: Popup Menu - Show on mouse over
In-Reply-To: <0BD0BCFC-DFE1-11D6-A4F1-0050E4CE1D03@babelfix.com>
Message-ID: <20021015113119.28569.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Simon Forster <simon at babelfix.com> wrote:
> I'm struggling to get to grips with RunRev's syntax.
> The simple example 
> I've set myself is to show the contents of a popup
> menu on mouse over. 
> I have the menu button and, on clicking it, it shows
> the menu content. 
> To do the same on mouse over, I'm using the objects
> "on mouse enter" 
> function. But once I've checked that we're over the
> right button, what 
> command do I use to show the button's content?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Simon Forster
> 

Hi Simon,

Try this script in your popup menu button:

  on mouseEnter
    popup me
  end mouseEnter

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 15 06:45:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue Oct 15 06:45:01 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <20021015113928.66679.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- sims <sims at ezpzapps.com> wrote:
> Can anyone tell me if the function:
> 
>   get specialFolderpath(26) -- user's Application
> Data folder
> 
> works on all versions of Windows?  I can use it here
> with my Mac
> running VirtualPC Windows 98 but have no PC to test
> with otherwise...
> 
> Does it work with 95 - 98 - etc.? Is there a problem
> using it with NT as
> suggested by Dave Cragg below?
> 
> atb
> 
> sims
> 
> [snip]

Hi sims,

I can confirm that specialFolderPath(26) works just
fine under Windows 2000 and Windows Millenium Edition.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From philpez at mac.com  Tue Oct 15 07:04:01 2002
From: philpez at mac.com (Philippe PEZARD)
Date: Tue Oct 15 07:04:01 2002
Subject: three problems when manipulating graphics
Message-ID: <6F8F76AA-E022-11D6-B96D-003065C5B02E@mac.com>

I'm trying to convert a stack from hypercard to revolution and I meet 
some problems. Is there somebody to help me ?

1?) I'm surprising to see that coordinates of pixels on a card begin at 
-3, -25 (top left) and end approximatively at 600,400 (bottom,right) in 
a stack defined with 600 * 400 window.

2?) i would like to use instruction like "click at 200,300" with bucket 
tool in several part of a graphic to make these parts dark. Sometimes, 
Results are wrong (that's not the expected part that become dark) as if 
coordinates of the "clicked" point were false nevertheless I determine 
these coordinates using the mouseloc() function and spell them in global 
variables (set to empty between two selection)

3?) in the scrip below (that replace working image by the original), the 
instruction "choose browse tool" don't work properly. When i move the 
cursor out of the button that command this script, the select tool 
replace immediately the browse tool.

on mouseUp
   lock Screen
   select card image "Schema.png" of cd "SCINTI QUANTIF1"
   delete
   import paint from file "/Disque X/Revolution 1.1.1/Schema.png"
   set the layer of card image "Schema.png" to bottom
   set the opaque of cd image "Schema.png" to false
   unlock Screen
   choose browse tool
end mouseUp

Many thank's !  .... and i apologize for my very bad english (french 
student)



From bvlahos at mac.com  Tue Oct 15 07:39:01 2002
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Tue Oct 15 07:39:01 2002
Subject: Rev's popup buttons lock me out
In-Reply-To: <a05200a01b9d16a8ecf80@[63.205.23.218]>
Message-ID: <0B3A5054-E03A-11D6-AE3A-003065EC5590@mac.com>

This is fixed in the next version of Rev.

Bill

On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 11:48  PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> At 12:09 AM -0400 10/15/02, Sim Forster wrote:
>> Using Revolution, once I've got one of the popup menus showing -
>> typically in the Transcript Dictionary, I'm unable to apply focus to
>> any other element. What I have to do is bring another application to
>> the foreground and then return to Revolution.
>>
>> Is this just me?
>>
>> Is there a more elegant method of regaining control?
>
> This is one of those UI things in Rev that drives me nuts!
>
> The only way I've found to get out of the problem is to hit the ESC 
> key. That closes the menu. Prety opaque and not standard, but there 
> you have it.
> -- 
> -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
> Dan Shafer
> Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
> "Looking at technology from every angle"
> http://www.danshafer.com
> 831-392-1127 Voice - 831-401-2531 Fax
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From simon-lists at ldml.com  Tue Oct 15 09:03:01 2002
From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster)
Date: Tue Oct 15 09:03:01 2002
Subject: Popup Menu - Show on mouse over
In-Reply-To: <20021015113119.28569.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FE26A527-E045-11D6-882E-0050E4CE1D03@ldml.com>

On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 12:31 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

>   on mouseEnter
>     popup me
>   end mouseEnter

Jan

Many thanks. Next series of questions if I may:

- How do I "hide" the popup on mouseLeave? Which actually takes me to 
the next point...

- If I've managed to hide the whole button, how can I get it back? I 
can't select it so I can't show its properties. Hmm.

- At some point I'd like to create a simple function which, one day, I 
may include in a calendar. Basically, on entering a day, I'd like to 
popup the days appointments. I'm guessing that a popup button is not 
the best way of doing this. What is the best way?

Are there some sample applications available to use as tutorials? I've 
been through the tutorials supplied (barring the Independent Study one) 
and they don't really help me with the syntax and structure of Rev 
apps. Compared to more traditional languages, I find Transcript a 
little strange and difficult to understand - but that's just a 
familiarity thing I'm sure.

Simon Forster
_________________________________________________
BabelFix Ltd, Office One, 16 Canham Road, London, W3 7SR, UK
<tel int="+44 20 8746 0555" uk="020 8746 0555">
<tel int="+44 70 9230 5244" uk="070 9230 5244">
<fax int="+44 70 9230 5247" uk="070 9230 5247">
<mailto:simon at babelfix.com>
_________________________________________________



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 10:01:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 10:01:00 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au> <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom> <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <003301c2745a$4a100e00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

The support for different versions of Windows OS'es (along with different
versions of IEs) are described along with a complete list of these
specialFolderPath codes at my site:

  http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_win003

And this shows, for example, that Windows NT does not support code 26,
although it should after IE 4 or higher has been installed. Take a look and
let me know if you have any other questions...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "sims" <sims at ezpzapps.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 2:38 AM
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)


> Can anyone tell me if the function:
>
>   get specialFolderpath(26) -- user's Application Data folder
>
> works on all versions of Windows?  I can use it here with my Mac
> running VirtualPC Windows 98 but have no PC to test with otherwise...
>
> Does it work with 95 - 98 - etc.? Is there a problem using it with NT as
> suggested by Dave Cragg below?
>
> atb
>
> sims
>
> >There is an "all users" Applications Data folder for data that is
> >application-specific, and also a folder for each user that can be
> >used for user-specific data.
> >
> >You can get the path to these folders using the  specialfolderpath
> >function. Tuv Snyder revealed on the list some time back how this
> >function can be extended beyond the default "special folders" by
> >passing an integer that corresponds to the Windows API
> >SHGetFolderPath  value/constant. The values for the "Applications
> >Data" folders are:
> >
> >get specialFolderPath(35) -- common Application Data folder
> >
> >get specialFolderpath(26) -- user's Application Data folder
> >
> >I think the idea is that you should make a folder for your own
> >application in these places.
> >
> >Warning:  This works fine for me on XP. But I just tested the
> >function with these values on NT 4.0 and Metacard crashed. This may
> >be my machine as my NT installation has been acting up recently.
> >Perhaps someone can confirm whether this is working reliably on other
> >Windows versions.
> >
> >Cheers
> >Dave Cragg
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 10:04:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 10:04:01 2002
Subject: error at left operand?
References: <961D94BBE7448D4C8E4440CB7920D9E01B6E87@ktk7.ad.kuluttajatutkimuskeskus.fi>
Message-ID: <004501c2745a$b45a7160$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Esa,

You should be very careful in naming objects with a numeric designation, as
in 'field "28"'. It is possible that Rev may interpret this as "field 28"
and look for the 28th field (this can happen if you were to pass the name of
the field as a parameter to a function, for example). I know it doesn't help
your current situation, but just wanted to pass along the FYI.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Esa Kivel?" <Esa.Kivela at ncrc.fi>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 3:01 AM
Subject: error at left operand?


> I have code:
>
> on idle
>   set the itemdel to ","
>   put item 1 of field "huu" + item 1 of field "buu" + item 1 of field
"suu" into field "28"
>
> end idle
>
> and I get error message: "  * There was an Execution Error at 10:58:55 AM
> Error description:  Operators +: error in left operand
> Object: field id 1066 of card id 1002 of stack "C:/Program
Files/Revolution 1.1.1/resusrssikortti.rev"
> --------------------
> put item 1 of field "huu" + item 1 of field "buu" + item 1 of field "suu"
into field "28"
> --------------------"
>
> What that mean?
>
> EsaK
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 10:06:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 10:06:00 2002
Subject: Repeatloop in mouseDown handler wont end
References: <A161CDDA-E01C-11D6-938C-0050E405EA7D@dsa-net.dk>
Message-ID: <005501c2745b$10eb7eb0$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Michael,

There is a known issue with doing things this way in that there are
other/better ways of doing it... see the article on HyperActive Software's
web site for a run down on this and how to work it:

http://www.hyperactivesw.com/polling.html

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Kristensen" <michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 4:01 AM
Subject: Repeatloop in mouseDown handler wont end


> Hi all
>
> There is a very annoying bug that show itself in both my own stacks and
> in Revolutions UI.
>
> Its in mouseDown handlers with a repeatloop like this:
>
> on mouseDown
>     --script
> repeat while the mouse is down
>     --script
> end repeat
> end mouseDown
>
>
> In appr. 1 out of 5 times the repeatloop wont end.
>
> It can also be seen in the Object Property Palette where
> it will happen in one of the four move-buttons.
>
> Nothing can stop the repeatloop except  to kill Revolution.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
> Michael Kristensen
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 10:12:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 10:12:01 2002
Subject: three problems when manipulating graphics
References: <6F8F76AA-E022-11D6-B96D-003065C5B02E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <005a01c2745b$cc64a8b0$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Phillipe,

> 1?) I'm surprising to see that coordinates of pixels on a card begin at
> -3, -25 (top left) and end approximatively at 600,400 (bottom,right) in
> a stack defined with 600 * 400 window.

They shouldn't... are you sure you're checking the card and not the stack?
If the stack window is at 3,25 and you ask for the rect of the stack, you'll
get "3,25,603,425" for a 600x400 window, but if you ask for the rect of the
card, you'll get "0,0,600,400".

Note also that the mouseLoc is in relation to the card rect, so if the mouse
is in the upper-left corner of the card and you ask for the mouseLoc, you'll
get "0,0".

> 2?) i would like to use instruction like "click at 200,300" with bucket
> tool in several part of a graphic to make these parts dark. Sometimes,
> Results are wrong (that's not the expected part that become dark) as if
> coordinates of the "clicked" point were false nevertheless I determine
> these coordinates using the mouseloc() function and spell them in global
> variables (set to empty between two selection)

Not sure about this, but it might be relative to the card/stack locations
mentioned in #1 above.

> 3?) in the scrip below (that replace working image by the original), the
> instruction "choose browse tool" don't work properly. When i move the
> cursor out of the button that command this script, the select tool
> replace immediately the browse tool.
>
> on mouseUp
>    lock Screen
>    select card image "Schema.png" of cd "SCINTI QUANTIF1"
>    delete
>    import paint from file "/Disque X/Revolution 1.1.1/Schema.png"
>    set the layer of card image "Schema.png" to bottom
>    set the opaque of cd image "Schema.png" to false
>    unlock Screen
>    choose browse tool
> end mouseUp

This may be the Rev UI getting in the way. Did you do a "Suspend Revolution
UI" before you did this? If not, you might want to try again with that
turned on (or set the lockMessages to true in your mouseUp handler).

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From Jacques.Hausser at ie-zea.unil.ch  Tue Oct 15 10:42:00 2002
From: Jacques.Hausser at ie-zea.unil.ch (Jacques HAUSSER)
Date: Tue Oct 15 10:42:00 2002
Subject: arrays
Message-ID: <p05100302b9d1c2e86cfd@[130.223.51.31]>

Hello,

Some beginner's questions about arrays - not vital questions, but I'm 
curious...

Transpose: I tried "put transpose(Gdonnees) into Gdonnees", and the answer was
"can't transpose this array" (the same if the transpose was put into 
another variable).
It was a 10 x 28 global array (with numeric keys) which was perfectly 
transposable with a hand-made transposition function, but I'm sure 
the built-in function would increase the speed - if it agrees to 
work. Which reason(s) can prevent transpose to work ?

another question: if one has a global array, say GArray, and wants to 
clean it, are the results of "delete GArray" and "put empty into 
GArray" exactly equivalents?
I guess they are not, and the GArray will be rebuilt from scratch 
when filled again after a delete. But "the keys" give the same result 
in both cases: nothing.
Can these two options have different impact on programming ? I found 
only the globalNames which could be affected.

I am very curious about how the arrays are internally built... for 
example, why "the keys" of an array (built systematically in a double 
"repeat with" loop) present their results in such an erratic order 
like:
5,1
3,3
3,1
1,5
1,3
5,2
3,4
3,2
... and so on. It is surely quite logical, but rather difficult to 
understand for a mere biologist!

Thank you in advance - Jacques



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Oct 15 11:45:00 2002
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue Oct 15 11:45:00 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <003301c2745a$4a100e00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
 <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
 <003301c2745a$4a100e00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <v04220800b9d1ed81244c@[10.0.1.2]>

>Thank you Ken (for this and the *numerous* answers you supply!),

I have a Mac app which writes a file to the Mac preference folder.

I am looking for a suitable folder for use with Windows, one which
would be on all systems.

Any suggestions other than specialFolderpath(26) ?

atb

sims


>And this shows, for example, that Windows NT does not support code 26,
>although it should after IE 4 or higher has been installed. Take a look and
>let me know if you have any other questions...



From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Oct 15 11:55:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue Oct 15 11:55:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <000701c273a5$2b0dadb0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <D110B8D6-DF89-11D6-8D20-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
 <000701c273a5$2b0dadb0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9d1f3c780dd@[216.229.107.168]>

>  > What are the constraints on file names that would allow a stack to have
>the
>>  same correct name on all (or most) Rev platforms?

Hi Dar,

1. I recall Ken Ray telling me that a file extension is required on 
some platforms.

2. I don't know whether these are platform issues or ISP issues, but:

a. extensions longer than three characters (eg: .html) can loose the 
4th & subsequent characters

b. I find file names with high order characters (eg: "Fran?ais") 
uploaded to my ftp site end up with "_" in place of the character; so 
I have to manually replace these characters (eg: "Francais") in 
addition to replacing spaces.  In this particular case I feel the 
downloaded file must retain the original character set; so the file 
compressed for download is renamed, not the original file.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From jswitte at bloomington.in.us  Tue Oct 15 12:35:01 2002
From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (James Witte)
Date: Tue Oct 15 12:35:01 2002
Subject: more beginniners questions on arrays
In-Reply-To: <p05100302b9d1c2e86cfd@[130.223.51.31]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210151228100.14214-100000@kirkwood.hoosier.net>

> Some beginner's questions about arrays - not vital questions, but I'm
> curious..

  Is there a way to do



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 15 12:40:00 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 15 12:40:00 2002
Subject: Wouldn't a forum be a far better idea?
In-Reply-To: <F69qKQRf9mfeIZh4Gne00017c0b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BF0680A-E064-11D6-961B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

I blinked and when I looked at all the mail in my use-revolution mailbox, I 
was overwhelmed.  OK, it is simply select all and mark as read, but this 
makes a forum look better.

If this goes to a forum, I would like to be able to get in mail a listing 
of new forum entries maybe twice a day.  Two items of small mail a day.  
This should have a link to the forum near the top of the mail.  OK, bottom 
is OK.

Also, it would be nice if I have cookies enabled to not have to enter a 
name & password every time I go to the forum site.

And snacks for those how hang around the forum would be good.  And sodas.

Dar Scott



From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Oct 15 12:48:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue Oct 15 12:48:01 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <v04220800b9d1ed81244c@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
 <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
 <003301c2745a$4a100e00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220800b9d1ed81244c@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9d1f8b7aa02@[216.229.107.62]>

>I am looking for a suitable folder for use with Windows, one which
>would be on all systems.

How about the folder containing your Revolution app?

   get the effective fileName of me
   set the itemDelimiter to "/"
   put yourPreferenceFileName into item -1 of it
   if there is not a file it then
     beep
     answer "Please install the 
file,"&&quote&yourPreferenceFileName&quote&&"in my folder and try 
again."
     close this stack
     exit preopenStack
   end if

Then it doesn't matter what the folder name or folder path is or 
whether you're installed on drive C or drive W...just specify the app 
& the preferences file must reside in the same folder.

My rewrite of SDB from HyperTalk to Transcript began life storing 
full path names to databases.  It tested fine on my static platform; 
but as I got to the end of testing and began to consider packaging & 
deployment, it quickly became evident that that design was vulnerable 
to failing if the db, the mainstack, and/or the folder they resided 
in were moved.  Placing individual files and/or folders in the same 
folder as the main app frees one from having to deal with these 
issues.

Frankly, it annoys me to have to open an Attachments folder inside a 
Eudora folder inside my System folder to retrieve attachments.  Why 
couldn't Eudora put the attachment in the main Eudora folder I 
already have open (or in an Attachments folder in that folder)?

Suppose your Mac app is installed on one hard drive and later moved 
to another drive or partition, or the name of the drive or one of the 
folders in the path is changed. Yes, specialFolderpath can still find 
your Preferences file; but if your user buys a new computer and loads 
your app from its current computer instead of reinstalling from 
scratch, will they know to move the Preferences file?

Think relative!

However, if you feel the above is just fooleshness, the Rev 
Dictionary gives you these choices for specialFolderpath:

For Windows systems:
	Desktop: For icons on the desktop
	System: For system components
	Start: For items in the Start menu
	Documents: For user documents
	Fonts: For font storage
	Temporary: For storage of temporary files

 From this list, I would suggest Documents if the Preferences file is 
permanent, or Temporary if it is created at runtime & deleted at 
program shutdown.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 15 12:50:00 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 15 12:50:00 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b9d1f3c780dd@[216.229.107.168]>
Message-ID: <97FDCFBE-E065-11D6-961B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 10:47 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> 1. I recall Ken Ray telling me that a file extension is required on some 
> platforms.

I've looked at some info on ISO-9660 level 2 (CD) and it is not clear to me 
whether it is required here.  I think no more than one can be used, but I 
don't understand whether one is required.

>
> 2. I don't know whether these are platform issues or ISP issues, but:
>
> a. extensions longer than three characters (eg: .html) can loose the 4th 
> & subsequent characters

It is not clear to me whether this applies to ISO-9660, but I think not.  
Anybody know?

>
> b. I find file names with high order characters (eg: "Fran?ais") uploaded 
> to my ftp site end up with "_" in place of the character; so I have to 
> manually replace these characters (eg: "Francais") in addition to 
> replacing spaces.  In this particular case I feel the downloaded file must 
> retain the original character set; so the file compressed for download is 
> renamed, not the original file.

Is this a problem with the uploading software or a problem with the site?  
That is, if you use %xx chars, does this upload and download OK?  Does this 
apply to spaces?

Dar Scott



From jswitte at bloomington.in.us  Tue Oct 15 12:52:01 2002
From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (James Witte)
Date: Tue Oct 15 12:52:01 2002
Subject: array questions..
In-Reply-To: <p05100302b9d1c2e86cfd@[130.223.51.31]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210151230270.17360-100000@kirkwood.hoosier.net>

> Some beginner's questions about arrays - not vital questions, but I'm
> curious...


  Is tehre a way to do "slice" or "slice-like" assignment to arrays (as in
Perl)?  Can I say 'put [5,3,4,2] into z[4..7]' where z in an array?  Or
just 'put [1,2,5,4,6,7] into z / put [1,4,5,6] after z'.  (Would that last
one put them in as new elements?

  Also kind of related, can procedures return multiple values like in Perl
(without using hashs).  Something like:

function sumAndDifference(x y)
  return (x+y), (x-y)
end sumAndDifference

-- main program

put 0 into sum
put sumAndDifference(6,5) into sum,diff
put sum && diff
-- gives "11 1


> like:
> 5,1
> 3,3
> 3,1
> 1,5
> 1,3
> 5,2

>  We> ... and so on. It is surely quite logical, but rather difficult to
> understand for a mere biologist!


  I'd imagine that the arrays are actually hash
tables, where the is no definite decernible order to how the keys come
out. (I'm assumming that the 'keys' function just goes through memory in
order' wehreas the creating of the key uses a complicated hash value of
that key and won't neccessarily come up in order (a typical hash function
would be:

put 0 into val
repeat for each char k in string
	add chrnum(k)*9 to val
end repeat
put val mod 51 into val

-- the modulus at the end should be a prime for optimal table
non-clustering, and the multiplier on the alphanumeric factor might be
important too to be a prime

  Of course, this kind of hash table is almost a neccesity if your're
dealing with variables like myArray("this") myArray("that") myArray("cat")
and such, but with straight numeric addresses, I'd think a standard C-type
array structure might be more efficient - of course, implmenting that as a
hash table as well lets you add new keys in at will (say you have keys
1,2,3,5,and 6, then wanted to add the 4 key in later.  No imagine doing
this in a two-dimensional array with a "hole" or two in it.)

Jim



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 15 12:58:00 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 15 12:58:00 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <000701c273a5$2b0dadb0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <C1349397-E066-11D6-961B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 11:14 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On Mac you can't use the colon (:).
>
> On Windows you can't use any of these: \ /:*?"<> |
>
> Macs (pre OS X) have maximum of 31 characters in the name of a file or
> folder, Windows is 255 (I think Mac OS X is 255 as well).

What?  No Regex?  ;-)

Anybody know about Linux?  CDs?  zip?  stuffed files?  tar.gz files?  Files 
in installers?  floppy files?

What about case?

>
> Spaces shouldn't be a problem, IMHO.

Sometimes I can refer to files with spaces in command lines by quoting them.
   I can't remember any OS or programs that wouldn't let me do this, but I'
m sure I ran across that.  Anybody know of important OS's or command-line 
apps that can't handle files with spaces?

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 15 12:59:00 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 15 12:59:00 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCIEMKDEAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <FA4C2932-E066-11D6-961B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 12:00 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I defer to Ken on these things...I probably 'steer away' from spaces 
> because
> of the problems getting files with them up to and off of servers.

Is this problem more than replacing spaces with %20 in references?

Dar Scott



From katir at hindu.org  Tue Oct 15 13:07:01 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Tue Oct 15 13:07:01 2002
Subject: MV via ftp (was libUrlFtpCommand not working?)
In-Reply-To: <p05111b01b9d17a9974c5@[192.168.123.3]>
Message-ID: <3F4F5CB6-E068-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

MMM. Thanks Dave... I tried sending

A) HELP  and

B) SITE HELP

on two different servers we use, on local OSX on the LAN and one remote 
at our ISP in Honolulu

and in both cases the response in "answer it" was

A) Help command not implemented
B) 214 Direct comments to support at aloha.net

Oh well.... the read[old] write[new] delete[old] will work just fine 
for my small file manipulations.. but 6-8 megs of audio files will be a 
different story.

thanks
Sivakatirswami


On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 10:44  PM, Dave Cragg wrote:

> To find what commands the server implements, set a log field using 
> libUrlSetLogField, and then  send the ftp "HELP" command. The commands 
> should appear in the log between lines that start with 214. As far as 
> I know, neither MV or LS are standard ftp commands. (Perhaps you need 
> telnet and not ftp.)
>
> Try sending "SITE HELP" to find out what specific "SITE" commands are 
> implemented. These commands not part of the FTP standard command set, 
> and are sent by using "SITE" followed by the  command name. For 
> example, "SITE CHMOD 755"
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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 13:22:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 13:22:00 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au> <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom> <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]> <003301c2745a$4a100e00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom> <v04220800b9d1ed81244c@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <007e01c27476$6892cf90$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

> >Thank you Ken (for this and the *numerous* answers you supply!),

My pleasure! Glad to help.


> I have a Mac app which writes a file to the Mac preference folder.
>
> I am looking for a suitable folder for use with Windows, one which
> would be on all systems.
>
> Any suggestions other than specialFolderpath(26) ?

If you get specialFolderPath("preferences") on a Mac, it will give you the
folder location (the Preferences folder in the System folder for OS 9 and
the Preferences folder in the user's Library folder on OS X). "Preferences"
won't work for Windows, so you'll need to user specialFolderPath(26).

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 13:25:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 13:25:00 2002
Subject: Portable file names
References: <D110B8D6-DF89-11D6-8D20-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> <000701c273a5$2b0dadb0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom> <a05100300b9d1f3c780dd@[216.229.107.168]>
Message-ID: <008d01c27476$d88edf00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

> 1. I recall Ken Ray telling me that a file extension is required on
> some platforms.

Only if you want to map a Rev stack file to an application as a "document"
(for Windows). Technically it doesn't need to have one for other uses (so
for example if you have a Rev stack that is always next to your standalone
and read by that standalone but never 2x-clicked).

> 2. I don't know whether these are platform issues or ISP issues, but:
>
> a. extensions longer than three characters (eg: .html) can loose the
> 4th & subsequent characters

They shouldn't. File extensions longer than 3 characters are supported on
all platforms (AFAIK), including UNIX and Windows servers. Can you provide
an example of where you've seen that truncated to 3 characters?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 13:35:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 13:35:01 2002
Subject: array questions..
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210151230270.17360-100000@kirkwood.hoosier.net>
Message-ID: <009c01c27478$42819000$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

>   Is tehre a way to do "slice" or "slice-like" assignment to arrays (as in
> Perl)?  Can I say 'put [5,3,4,2] into z[4..7]' where z in an array?  Or
> just 'put [1,2,5,4,6,7] into z / put [1,4,5,6] after z'.  (Would that last
> one put them in as new elements?

Not with a single command AFAIK.

>   Also kind of related, can procedures return multiple values like in Perl
> (without using hashs).  Something like:
>
> function sumAndDifference(x y)
>   return (x+y), (x-y)
> end sumAndDifference
>
> -- main program
>
> put 0 into sum
> put sumAndDifference(6,5) into sum,diff
> put sum && diff
> -- gives "11 1

Not exactly. Handlers can only return a single value, although you can use
"pass by reference" mode of providing parameters to get what you need, as
in:

function sumAndDifference @x, at y
    put x into xVal -- need this to make sure x doesn't change
    put (xVal+y) into x  -- if you didn't have xVal, x would change to be 11
    put (xVal-y) into y
end sumAndDifference

put 0 into sum
put 6 into x
put 5 into y
get sumAndDifference(x,y)
put x && y
-- gives "11 1"

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Tue Oct 15 14:24:01 2002
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Tue Oct 15 14:24:01 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]> 
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
            <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
            <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <20021015191923.17032.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

I'm running MetaCard 2.4.3, Win98 

  put specialFolderPath(26) 

Correctly returned the path to my Applications Data folder. 

However,
   put specialFolderPath(26) 

returns 

  folder not found 

miscdas
=========
[snip]
sims writes: 

> Can anyone tell me if the function: 
> 
>  get specialFolderpath(26) -- user's Application Data folder 
> 
> works on all versions of Windows?  I can use it here with my Mac
> running VirtualPC Windows 98 but have no PC to test with otherwise... 
> 
> Does it work with 95 - 98 - etc.? Is there a problem using it with NT as
> suggested by Dave Cragg below? 
> 
> atb 
> 
> sims 
> 
>> The values for the "Applications Data" folders are: 
>> 
>>> get specialFolderPath(35) -- common Application Data folder
>> 
>>> get specialFolderpath(26) -- user's Application Data folder
 


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 14:50:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 14:50:01 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>            <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>            <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]> <20021015191923.17032.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <000401c27482$acdb5120$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

> I'm running MetaCard 2.4.3, Win98
>
>   put specialFolderPath(26)
>
> Correctly returned the path to my Applications Data folder.
>
> However,
>    put specialFolderPath(26)
>
> returns
>
>   folder not found

Did you run a different OS for the second example? You don't specify, so it
looks like you ran the same thing twice on the same OS and got two different
responses...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Oct 15 14:59:00 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue Oct 15 14:59:00 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <FA4C2932-E066-11D6-961B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCCENODEAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Dar,

%20 should do the trick...but it depends on who's doing the encoding...your
app or someone else's (like an installer or uploader).

[is else's even a word...my spelling checker didn't think so;-)]

> Chipp Walters wrote:
>
> > I defer to Ken on these things...I probably 'steer away' from spaces
> > because
> > of the problems getting files with them up to and off of servers.
>
> Is this problem more than replacing spaces with %20 in references?
>
> Dar Scott



From katir at hindu.org  Tue Oct 15 15:00:00 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Tue Oct 15 15:00:00 2002
Subject: MV via ftp (moving files around on a remote server)
In-Reply-To: <3F4F5CB6-E068-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <197A011B-E078-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

Dave, thanks. studied the RFC's,

Right, MV doesn't appear to be a standard FTP command,
But RNFR and RNTO work great!

put "RNFR /public_html/transcripts/hold/9-12-02.txt" into oldPath
put "RNTO /public_html/transcripts/Used--discard/9-12-02.txt" into 
newPath
get libUrlFtpCommand(oldPath,"mydomain.org","myName","myPassword")
get libUrlFtpCommand(newPath,"mydomain.org","myName","myPassword")

# the above two commands must be run in immediate succession

answer it

# returns "RNTO command successful"
# effectively moves the file from one directory to another.

The above could be a useful addition to your example syntax for that 
command in the documentation.

Himalayan Academy Publications
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
katir at hindu.org
www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Tue Oct 15 15:09:00 2002
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Tue Oct 15 15:09:00 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <20021015191923.17032.qmail@www.boxfrog.com> 
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
            <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
            <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
            <20021015191923.17032.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <20021015200424.93685.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

miscdas at boxfrog.com writes: 

> I'm running MetaCard 2.4.3, Win98, IE5 
> 
>  put specialFolderPath(26)  
> 
> Correctly returned the path to my Applications Data folder.  
> 
> However,
>   put specialFolderPath(26) 

Oops! this should be 35, not 26 

> 
> returns  
> 
>  folder not found  
> 
> miscdas
> =========
> [snip]
> sims writes:  
> 
>> Can anyone tell me if the function:  
>> 
>>  get specialFolderpath(26) -- user's Application Data folder  
>> 
>> works on all versions of Windows?  I can use it here with my Mac
>> running VirtualPC Windows 98 but have no PC to test with otherwise...  
>> 
>> Does it work with 95 - 98 - etc.? Is there a problem using it with NT as
>> suggested by Dave Cragg below?  
>> 
>> atb  
>> 
>> sims  
>> 
>>> The values for the "Applications Data" folders are:  
>>> 
>>>> get specialFolderPath(35) -- common Application Data folder
>>> 
>>>> get specialFolderpath(26) -- user's Application Data folder
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
 


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Oct 15 15:19:00 2002
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue Oct 15 15:19:00 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <a05100301b9d1f8b7aa02@[216.229.107.62]>
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
 <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
 <003301c2745a$4a100e00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220800b9d1ed81244c@[10.0.1.2]>
 <a05100301b9d1f8b7aa02@[216.229.107.62]>
Message-ID: <p05111b06b9d223790adf@[192.168.123.3]>

At 10:41 am -0700 15/10/02, Rob Cozens wrote:
>>I am looking for a suitable folder for use with Windows, one which
>>would be on all systems.
>
>How about the folder containing your Revolution app?

There is a potential problem here if you need to write data to this 
folder and your app is installed in the Program Files folder. Under 
XP (and Win 2000 ??), a "plain user" doesn't have sufficient rights 
to write to the Program Files directory. Of course, such a user can't 
install the application in that location to start with.  But if the 
machine Adminstrator (Sys Admin, big sister, etc.) installs the app 
with the intention that other users can run it, things could get 
messy. Also, if multiple users are using the app, and you want to 
save user settings, you need to keep user settings separate. That's 
why those Application Data folders are provided.

Cheers
Dave


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Oct 15 15:34:00 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Oct 15 15:34:00 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <p05111b06b9d223790adf@[192.168.123.3]>
Message-ID: <B9D1C87C.46E2%scott@tactilemedia.com>

> There is a potential problem here if you need to write data to this
> folder and your app is installed in the Program Files folder. Under
> XP (and Win 2000 ??), a "plain user" doesn't have sufficient rights
> to write to the Program Files directory. Of course, such a user can't
> install the application in that location to start with.  But if the
> machine Adminstrator (Sys Admin, big sister, etc.) installs the app
> with the intention that other users can run it, things could get
> messy. Also, if multiple users are using the app, and you want to
> save user settings, you need to keep user settings separate. That's
> why those Application Data folders are provided.

There's also the Windows registry to consider...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 15:48:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 15:48:01 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>            <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>            <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>            <20021015191923.17032.qmail@www.boxfrog.com> <20021015200424.93685.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <001101c2748a$b7f34ec0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Really? According to my source, specialFolderPath(35) should be supported as
a result of IE 5's installation; it was reported by Microsoft to be part of
the the 'shlwapi.dll' installed w/IE5. Can you check and see if you have
that DLL?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: <miscdas at boxfrog.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: get specialFolderpath(26)


> miscdas at boxfrog.com writes:
>
> > I'm running MetaCard 2.4.3, Win98, IE5
> >
> >  put specialFolderPath(26)
> >
> > Correctly returned the path to my Applications Data folder.
> >
> > However,
> >   put specialFolderPath(26)
>
> Oops! this should be 35, not 26
>
> >
> > returns
> >
> >  folder not found
> >
> > miscdas
> > =========
> > [snip]
> > sims writes:
> >
> >> Can anyone tell me if the function:
> >>
> >>  get specialFolderpath(26) -- user's Application Data folder
> >>
> >> works on all versions of Windows?  I can use it here with my Mac
> >> running VirtualPC Windows 98 but have no PC to test with otherwise...
> >>
> >> Does it work with 95 - 98 - etc.? Is there a problem using it with NT
as
> >> suggested by Dave Cragg below?
> >>
> >> atb
> >>
> >> sims
> >>
> >>> The values for the "Applications Data" folders are:
> >>>
> >>>> get specialFolderPath(35) -- common Application Data folder
> >>>
> >>>> get specialFolderpath(26) -- user's Application Data folder
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Oct 15 16:08:01 2002
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue Oct 15 16:08:01 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <B9D1C87C.46E2%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <B9D1C87C.46E2%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <v04220803b9d23092e60a@[10.0.1.2]>

>. That's
>  > why those Application Data folders are provided.
>
>There's also the Windows registry to consider...


I need to track how many times an action is performed so that
when a set limit is arrived at, the application can do something.


If the number times an action is performed is recorded in a text
file, then then the person cannot simply install the application
over again and start from zero again. With each action, the text
file is written to until the limit is reached.

I understand that a clever person could simply search for and
remove the text file...but this simple level of security is
ok for the circumstances.

My PC knowledge is close to zero...could the Windows registry
be of use in this case? How would I go about using it?

tia

sims

___________________________________________

    http://EZPZapps.com         info at EZPZapps.com
       Software - Internet Development - Consulting


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 15 16:09:00 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 15 16:09:00 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <D110B8D6-DF89-11D6-8D20-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <6E7105B4-E081-11D6-961B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

CD-ROM file names--

In looking at constraints on file names on the most popular of OS's 
supported by Revolution and on the most popular of media, I find (I think)
  the most limiting format is CD-ROM.

The best I can tell from information (and bad information) on the Internet.
..

ISO-9660  Level 1             Simple 8.3
ISO-9660  Level 1 + Joliet    Above extended for Windows 95 long names
ISO-9660  Level 2             30 char names with strict limitations

The Level 2 limitations:  Only A-Z,0-9,_ before the dot.  Only A-Z,0-9 
after the dot.  (However, some web pages say the _ is OK after the dot.)  I 
think the dot is required.  (But a web page hinted it was optional.)  The 
dot is not counted in the 30 chars.  I think the number of chars after the 
dot is fixed at 3.  (But I get the impression from a web page that this is 
not the case.)  Under some conditions the finder will display the revision 
number of CD files on Mac OS.  (Some web pages hinted that names should be 
shortened by a couple characters to accommodate that.)  There is so much 
contradiction on the web, I'm (only) half tempted to shell out the $75 for 
the standard.  Maybe there is a book that is cheaper but accurately 
reflects the standard.

Is ISO-9660 Level 2 the right standard to be looking at?

I'm concerned about case.  The CD-ROM file names are all upper case.  
However, I noticed that several operating systems used drivers that 
automatically convert CD-ROM file names to lower case.  If I have files aBc.
txt and aBc.rev and store them on CDs, I assume they will be stored as ABC.
TXT and ABC.REV.  If I try to open the first as aBc.txt, ABC.TXT or abc.txt 
using Revolution "open file" or URL on Windows, Mac OS, OS X, or linux, 
which will work?  <<=== See!  I'm on topic!  Sorta.

(An alternative to Level 2 is Level 1 with compressed files if they have 
better file name representation.  I have come to like compressed 
folders--zip--on Windows XP.)

Dar Scott



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 15 16:25:00 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Oct 15 16:25:00 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <v04220803b9d23092e60a@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <B9D1D480.1E4D4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

sims wrote:

>> . That's
>>> why those Application Data folders are provided.
>> 
>> There's also the Windows registry to consider...
> 
> 
> I need to track how many times an action is performed so that
> when a set limit is arrived at, the application can do something.
> 
> 
> If the number times an action is performed is recorded in a text
> file, then then the person cannot simply install the application
> over again and start from zero again. With each action, the text
> file is written to until the limit is reached.
> 
> I understand that a clever person could simply search for and
> remove the text file...but this simple level of security is
> ok for the circumstances.
> 
> My PC knowledge is close to zero...could the Windows registry
> be of use in this case? How would I go about using it?

Text files can be edited with Notepad, the registry with RegEdit.
If you really want to annoy crackers put some critical part of your software
into a separate stack file and tuck a Base64- and/ot gzip-encoded copy of
your count there in a user prop.  Encoded, your data will be hard to spot in
the binary stack file, and if they toss it your program won't run.

Nothing's crack-proof, but the trick is to make cracking sufficiently
annoying so as to be not worth the effort.  ;)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Oct 15 16:29:01 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Oct 15 16:29:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <6E7105B4-E081-11D6-961B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <B9D1D55D.46FA%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Dar Scott"  wrote:

> If I have files aBc.
> txt and aBc.rev and store them on CDs, I assume they will be stored as ABC.
> TXT and ABC.REV.  If I try to open the first as aBc.txt, ABC.TXT or abc.txt
> using Revolution "open file" or URL on Windows, Mac OS, OS X, or linux,
> which will work?

If I understand your question, all the above will work.

For all intents and purposes, Rev ignores case.  On the desktop, reading
file paths, file names, registry entries are all unaffected by case.  Most
Web URLs are not case sensitive (a few are, especially where user
names/passwords are included in the address string).  I can't think of any
situation off the top of my head where case matters, aside from stack
passwords, which I believe are case sensitive (perhaps someone else will
chime in here).

This is one situation where a little experimentation will get you your
answer.

PS  One comment I'll throw out there regarding file name convention issues
is with Windows (go figure).  I've read that systems up through Win2K (not
sure about XP) have an inherent flaw which can cause problems when trying to
replace applications via an installer.  If the app to be replaced has a non
8-dot-3 name, the installation can fail (I've ran into this a while back).
Supposedly this does not occur with documents, DLLs, etc, only exe files.
FWIW.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Tue Oct 15 16:30:00 2002
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Tue Oct 15 16:30:00 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <001101c2748a$b7f34ec0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom> 
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
            <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
            <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
            <20021015191923.17032.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
            <20021015200424.93685.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
            <001101c2748a$b7f34ec0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <20021015212447.54484.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Yep, got it: 

c:\windows\system\shlwapi.dll   16\08\99 

I rechecked  put specialFolderPath(35)
and verified  folder not found 

miscdas 

[snip]
Ken Ray writes: 

> Really? According to my source, specialFolderPath(35) should be supported as
> a result of IE 5's installation; it was reported by Microsoft to be part of
> the the 'shlwapi.dll' installed w/IE5. Can you check and see if you have
> that DLL? 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Oct 15 16:47:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue Oct 15 16:47:01 2002
Subject: linguistics of transcript?
Message-ID: <CC5B618E-E086-11D6-8419-000393529642@mindlube.com>

I studied linguistics in college, as an undergrad, and have always been 
fascinated with how programming languages are used and how they evolve. 
The creator of Perl claims that Perl is close to a natural language in 
a variety of ways and that was one of his design goals. But if you have 
ever had to read Perl code, it is not easy to read at & it's hard to 
believe it's like a natural language. Most unnatural to look at. 
Although I guess that's the point. Once you learn the Perl idiom and 
slang, it makes more sense.

Transcript however seems to be a nice balance of being 
natural-language-like, and with enough strictness to prevent it from 
turning into an idiomatic train wreck like Perl.

Any articles or links out there about the history of 
transcript/metacard/xtalk with respect to it's syntax and linguistic 
issues?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 15 17:56:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 15 17:56:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <B9D1D55D.46FA%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <65C49B64-E090-11D6-961B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 03:23 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

>> If I have files aBc.
>> txt and aBc.rev and store them on CDs, I assume they will be stored as 
>> ABC.
>> TXT and ABC.REV.  If I try to open the first as aBc.txt, ABC.TXT or abc.
>> txt
>> using Revolution "open file" or URL on Windows, Mac OS, OS X, or linux,
>> which will work?
>
> If I understand your question, all the above will work.

Cool!

I think I have enough to make my first try at a conservative (but not 8.3)
  file name constraint for my Revolution apps and libraries (and stacks and 
files in general).

Dar's very conservative file name syntax for Revolution:
      The file name consists of
      up to 25 alphanumeric-and-underline chars,
      a dot, and three alphanumeric chars.
      The letters may be upper and lower case,
      but the case may be lost along the way.

I don't know how to write "up to 25" in regex, so I can't impress Ken Ray 
by putting it in regex.

Is this too conservative?  Does it have a hole?  (Are there cases where I 
need at least one char before the dot?)

Examples:
The_Long_Way.txt
.Rev
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.rev
GET.OUT

Dar Scott



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Tue Oct 15 17:56:44 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Tue Oct 15 17:56:44 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCCENODEAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <19A12B49-1DDA-11B2-9D20-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Wednesday, Oct 16, 2002, at 05:54 Australia/Sydney, Chipp Walters 
wrote:

> Dar,
>
> %20 should do the trick...but it depends on who's doing the 
> encoding...your
> app or someone else's (like an installer or uploader).
>
> [is else's even a word...my spelling checker didn't think so;-)]
>
I don't blame your spelling checker but it is a quite legitimate 
elision of the "i" in "else is" and not a weird possessive.

cheers
David



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Tue Oct 15 17:58:02 2002
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Tue Oct 15 17:58:02 2002
Subject: Search and Replace
Message-ID: <B9D1E78D.1D08%dan@clearvisiontech.com>

Greetings!

I need to switch the gender of some text.  But, I'm having a hard time
figuring out a way to do it.  Obviously I can't do a simple replace because

Replace "HE" with "SHE" in someText

Would turn "HELP" into "SHELP"

I've written this function about a dozen times and it still isn't working
perfectly.  Here's what I have to date:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

function searchAndReplaceMaleToFemale TextToSearchNReplace
  set the caseSensitive to true
  set the itemDel to ","
  
  put "He,he,him,Him,himself,HimSelf,his,His,boy,Boy,he's,He's" into
SearchWordsMale
  put "She,she,her,Her,herself,Herself,her,Her,girl,Girl,she's,She's" into
SearchWordsFemale
  
  put TextToSearchNReplace into TextToSearchNReplace2
  put quote&"!?,.:;[]{}()?$?%^&???<>=+-??????#???*???\/" into tList
  repeat for each char tChar in tList
    replace tChar with space in TextToSearchNReplace2
  end repeat
  
  repeat with i = the number of words in TextToSearchNReplace2 down to 1
    if word i of TextToSearchNReplace2 is among the items of SearchWordsMale
then
      replace (word i of TextToSearchNReplace2) with (item (itemOffset(word
i of TextToSearchNReplace2,SearchWordsMale)) of SearchWordsFemale) in word i
of TextToSearchNReplace
    end if
  end repeat
   
  set the caseSensitive to false
  return TextToSearchNReplace
end searchAndReplaceMaleToFemale

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone got any ideas?

Thank you in advance,
-Dan



If you feel like taking a stab at it... Here's some text to test with:

     The Reading goals for Becky are building comprehension using specific
strategies of [ answering questions, summarizing, and describing (beginning,
middle, end)].  He will be able to use phonics to decode words, show an
increasing his vocabulary, and gain fluency in oral reading. Becky will
strive to be able to read at grade level or above by the end of the year.
     The Mathematics goals for Becky is to know the addition/subtraction
facts, be able to solve word problems, gain a deeper understanding of place
value, and demonstrate a basic understanding of time and money.
     The writing goal for Becky is to write a paragraph using clear and
coherent sentences. Correct use of grammar, capitalization, and punctuation
should increase as the year progresses for him.
        Personal  Goals for Becky are to stay focused and on task  to
complete his work without  adult supervision.   Becky needs to make more
productive use of class time.  He is easily distracted and is often unable
to finish his assignments in class.  I am confident, with practice, Becky
will learn how to use his time wisely.        



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Tue Oct 15 18:00:00 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Tue Oct 15 18:00:00 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <BBEIJJIICJJBOLMBODHCCENODEAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <A3AAA5BE-1DDA-11B2-9D20-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Wednesday, Oct 16, 2002, at 05:54 Australia/Sydney, Chipp Walters 
wrote:

> Dar,
>
> %20 should do the trick...but it depends on who's doing the 
> encoding...your
> app or someone else's (like an installer or uploader).
>
> [is else's even a word...my spelling checker didn't think so;-)]
>
I don't blame your spelling checker but it is a quite legitimate 
elision of the "i" in "else is" and not a weird possessive.

cheers
David



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Tue Oct 15 18:02:01 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Tue Oct 15 18:02:01 2002
Subject: Search and Replace
In-Reply-To: <B9D1E78D.1D08%dan@clearvisiontech.com>
Message-ID: <EB02F186-1DDA-11B2-9D20-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Wednesday, Oct 16, 2002, at 08:41 Australia/Sydney, Dan Friedman  
wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> I need to switch the gender of some text.  But, I'm having a hard time
> figuring out a way to do it.  Obviously I can't do a simple replace  
> because
>
> Replace "HE" with "SHE" in someText
>
> Would turn "HELP" into "SHELP"
>
> I've written this function about a dozen times and it still isn't  
> working
> perfectly.

I feel a regex coming on. Are you there, Ken?

>   Here's what I have to date:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> --
>
> function searchAndReplaceMaleToFemale TextToSearchNReplace
>   set the caseSensitive to true
>   set the itemDel to ","
>
>   put "He,he,him,Him,himself,HimSelf,his,His,boy,Boy,he's,He's" into
> SearchWordsMale
>   put "She,she,her,Her,herself,Herself,her,Her,girl,Girl,she's,She's"  
> into
> SearchWordsFemale
>
>   put TextToSearchNReplace into TextToSearchNReplace2
>   put quote&"!?,.:;[]{}()?$?%^&???<>=+-??????#???*???\/" into tList
>   repeat for each char tChar in tList
>     replace tChar with space in TextToSearchNReplace2
>   end repeat
>
>   repeat with i = the number of words in TextToSearchNReplace2 down to  
> 1
>     if word i of TextToSearchNReplace2 is among the items of  
> SearchWordsMale
> then
>       replace (word i of TextToSearchNReplace2) with (item  
> (itemOffset(word
> i of TextToSearchNReplace2,SearchWordsMale)) of SearchWordsFemale) in  
> word i
> of TextToSearchNReplace
>     end if
>   end repeat
>
>   set the caseSensitive to false
>   return TextToSearchNReplace
> end searchAndReplaceMaleToFemale
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> --
>
> Anyone got any ideas?
>
> Thank you in advance,
> -Dan
>
>
>
> If you feel like taking a stab at it... Here's some text to test with:
>
>      The Reading goals for Becky are building comprehension using  
> specific
> strategies of [ answering questions, summarizing, and describing  
> (beginning,
> middle, end)].  He will be able to use phonics to decode words, show an
> increasing his vocabulary, and gain fluency in oral reading. Becky will
> strive to be able to read at grade level or above by the end of the  
> year.
>      The Mathematics goals for Becky is to know the  
> addition/subtraction
> facts, be able to solve word problems, gain a deeper understanding of  
> place
> value, and demonstrate a basic understanding of time and money.
>      The writing goal for Becky is to write a paragraph using clear and
> coherent sentences. Correct use of grammar, capitalization, and  
> punctuation
> should increase as the year progresses for him.
>         Personal  Goals for Becky are to stay focused and on task  to
> complete his work without  adult supervision.   Becky needs to make  
> more
> productive use of class time.  He is easily distracted and is often  
> unable
> to finish his assignments in class.  I am confident, with practice,  
> Becky
> will learn how to use his time wisely.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Tue Oct 15 18:29:01 2002
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Tue Oct 15 18:29:01 2002
Subject: Search and Replace
In-Reply-To: <B9D1E78D.1D08%dan@clearvisiontech.com>
Message-ID: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGCEODCFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>

In this case can you not consider spaces to be part of the 'word' ? In which
case a direct replace would work.
ie " HE " -> " SHE "
   " HIS " -> " HER "
This would avoid "HELP" -> "SHELP" and "THIS" -> "THER"

Regards

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
Chartered Information Systems Practioner

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dan Friedman
Sent: 15 October 2002 23:41
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Search and Replace


Greetings!

I need to switch the gender of some text.  But, I'm having a hard time
figuring out a way to do it.  Obviously I can't do a simple replace because

Replace "HE" with "SHE" in someText

Would turn "HELP" into "SHELP"

I've written this function about a dozen times and it still isn't working
perfectly.  Here's what I have to date:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

function searchAndReplaceMaleToFemale TextToSearchNReplace
  set the caseSensitive to true
  set the itemDel to ","

  put "He,he,him,Him,himself,HimSelf,his,His,boy,Boy,he's,He's" into
SearchWordsMale
  put "She,she,her,Her,herself,Herself,her,Her,girl,Girl,she's,She's" into
SearchWordsFemale

  put TextToSearchNReplace into TextToSearchNReplace2
  put quote&"!?,.:;[]{}()?$?%^&???<>=+-??????#???*???\/" into tList
  repeat for each char tChar in tList
    replace tChar with space in TextToSearchNReplace2
  end repeat

  repeat with i = the number of words in TextToSearchNReplace2 down to 1
    if word i of TextToSearchNReplace2 is among the items of SearchWordsMale
then
      replace (word i of TextToSearchNReplace2) with (item (itemOffset(word
i of TextToSearchNReplace2,SearchWordsMale)) of SearchWordsFemale) in word i
of TextToSearchNReplace
    end if
  end repeat

  set the caseSensitive to false
  return TextToSearchNReplace
end searchAndReplaceMaleToFemale

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone got any ideas?

Thank you in advance,
-Dan



If you feel like taking a stab at it... Here's some text to test with:

     The Reading goals for Becky are building comprehension using specific
strategies of [ answering questions, summarizing, and describing (beginning,
middle, end)].  He will be able to use phonics to decode words, show an
increasing his vocabulary, and gain fluency in oral reading. Becky will
strive to be able to read at grade level or above by the end of the year.
     The Mathematics goals for Becky is to know the addition/subtraction
facts, be able to solve word problems, gain a deeper understanding of place
value, and demonstrate a basic understanding of time and money.
     The writing goal for Becky is to write a paragraph using clear and
coherent sentences. Correct use of grammar, capitalization, and punctuation
should increase as the year progresses for him.
        Personal  Goals for Becky are to stay focused and on task  to
complete his work without  adult supervision.   Becky needs to make more
productive use of class time.  He is easily distracted and is often unable
to finish his assignments in class.  I am confident, with practice, Becky
will learn how to use his time wisely.

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Tue Oct 15 18:39:01 2002
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Tue Oct 15 18:39:01 2002
Subject: Search and Replace  
Message-ID: <B9D1F125.1D0B%dan@clearvisiontech.com>

Gary,

Yes, but I can't assume the pronouns will be ONLY in the middle of a
sentence.  Searching for " He " will not work in "He is a good boy."
or " Him " in "We like Him."



> In this case can you not consider spaces to be part of the 'word' ? In which
> case a direct replace would work.
> ie " HE " -> " SHE "
>  " HIS " -> " HER "
> This would avoid "HELP" -> "SHELP" and "THIS" -> "THER"
> 
> Regards
> 
> Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 15 18:41:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 15 18:41:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <A3AAA5BE-1DDA-11B2-9D20-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <CA355908-E096-11D6-961B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Wednesday, December 31, 1969, at 06:01 PM, David Vaughan wrote:

>> %20 should do the trick...but it depends on who's doing the 
>> encoding...your
>> app or someone else's (like an installer or uploader).
>>
>> [is else's even a word...my spelling checker didn't think so;-)]
>>
> I don't blame your spelling checker but it is a quite legitimate elision 
> of the "i" in "else is" and not a weird possessive.

When I studied linguistics in college I tried to convince my profs that 
possessive ('s) is a word in English, but they (as most sane people) were 
not convinced.  Yet, examples of mobility like this one keep coming up.  -- 
Dar



From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Tue Oct 15 18:42:01 2002
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Tue Oct 15 18:42:01 2002
Subject: Search and Replace
In-Reply-To: <B9D1E78D.1D08%dan@clearvisiontech.com>
Message-ID: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGMEODCFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>

Ummm... further to my previous (and rapid) reply, you may also need to look
at other punctuation scenarios bar spaces. Normally there is a space after a
full stop and after a comma. However, it may be that a sentance could be
constructed so that a gender reliant word appears directly before
punctuation
eg "...in order to improve himself." or "...a very talented girl."

I do think that RegEx would be overkill for this scenario and with some
thought on word placement within a sentence a simple series 'find & replace'
would do the trick.

Regards

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
Chartered Information Systems Practitioner

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dan Friedman
Sent: 15 October 2002 23:41
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Search and Replace


Greetings!

I need to switch the gender of some text.  But, I'm having a hard time
figuring out a way to do it.  Obviously I can't do a simple replace because

Replace "HE" with "SHE" in someText

Would turn "HELP" into "SHELP"

I've written this function about a dozen times and it still isn't working
perfectly.  Here's what I have to date:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

function searchAndReplaceMaleToFemale TextToSearchNReplace
  set the caseSensitive to true
  set the itemDel to ","

  put "He,he,him,Him,himself,HimSelf,his,His,boy,Boy,he's,He's" into
SearchWordsMale
  put "She,she,her,Her,herself,Herself,her,Her,girl,Girl,she's,She's" into
SearchWordsFemale

  put TextToSearchNReplace into TextToSearchNReplace2
  put quote&"!?,.:;[]{}()?$?%^&???<>=+-??????#???*???\/" into tList
  repeat for each char tChar in tList
    replace tChar with space in TextToSearchNReplace2
  end repeat

  repeat with i = the number of words in TextToSearchNReplace2 down to 1
    if word i of TextToSearchNReplace2 is among the items of SearchWordsMale
then
      replace (word i of TextToSearchNReplace2) with (item (itemOffset(word
i of TextToSearchNReplace2,SearchWordsMale)) of SearchWordsFemale) in word i
of TextToSearchNReplace
    end if
  end repeat

  set the caseSensitive to false
  return TextToSearchNReplace
end searchAndReplaceMaleToFemale

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone got any ideas?

Thank you in advance,
-Dan



If you feel like taking a stab at it... Here's some text to test with:

     The Reading goals for Becky are building comprehension using specific
strategies of [ answering questions, summarizing, and describing (beginning,
middle, end)].  He will be able to use phonics to decode words, show an
increasing his vocabulary, and gain fluency in oral reading. Becky will
strive to be able to read at grade level or above by the end of the year.
     The Mathematics goals for Becky is to know the addition/subtraction
facts, be able to solve word problems, gain a deeper understanding of place
value, and demonstrate a basic understanding of time and money.
     The writing goal for Becky is to write a paragraph using clear and
coherent sentences. Correct use of grammar, capitalization, and punctuation
should increase as the year progresses for him.
        Personal  Goals for Becky are to stay focused and on task  to
complete his work without  adult supervision.   Becky needs to make more
productive use of class time.  He is easily distracted and is often unable
to finish his assignments in class.  I am confident, with practice, Becky
will learn how to use his time wisely.

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 15 18:52:00 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 15 18:52:00 2002
Subject: Search and Replace
In-Reply-To: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGCEODCFAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>
Message-ID: <4AC8B872-E098-11D6-961B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 05:21 PM, Gary Rathbone wrote:

> In this case can you not consider spaces to be part of the 'word' ? In 
> which
> case a direct replace would work.
> ie " HE " -> " SHE "
>    " HIS " -> " HER "
> This would avoid "HELP" -> "SHELP" and "THIS" -> "THER"

This might present a problem in the more general case:
His portfolio (his work) speaks well of him.

Uh.  I better throw out an idea then.  How 'bout the original has markers 
that are transformed to either male or female.  That is, the original has 
words like $She/He$, $she/he$, and so on.  Replace is then repeatedly used 
to convert these to (for female) She, she, and so on.  (A smart, but 
perhaps slower, method might infer the replacements from the text.)

Dar Scott



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Oct 15 19:02:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Oct 15 19:02:01 2002
Subject: Popup Menu - Show on mouse over
In-Reply-To: <a05111acab9d1d062fc0a@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <A29CF704-E099-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> - How do I "hide" the popup on mouseLeave? Which actually takes me to 
> the next point...
This is a "feature" in the current version of Rev. Popup menus (of any 
sort) only hide themselves when you make a choice or if you press 
escape. In the next version, I would assume that moving away from the 
popup menu would automatically hide it. You could also put a "Hide" 
option in the menu that did nothing but allowed the user to select 
something so getting rid of the menu.

>
> - If I've managed to hide the whole button, how can I get it back? I 
> can't select it so I can't show its properties. Hmm.
In the View menu, you can select "Show Invisible Objects" which will 
reveal anything you have hidden. Alternatively, have a look at the 
Application overview which will list every command and allow you to go 
to it's properties. You can also bring up the properties palette for 
another object and then use the menu at the top of the palette to 
choose another object, even if it is invisible.
>
> - At some point I'd like to create a simple function which, one day, I 
> may include in a calendar. Basically, on entering a day, I'd like to 
> popup the days appointments. I'm guessing that a popup button is not 
> the best way of doing this. What is the best way?
This sounds like a reasonable way. Your date field needs a mouseEnter 
handler that fills the popup button with the day's data, then does: 
popup button "Appts"
The "Appts" button doesn't need to be made visible as the popup command 
handles that. If the menu needs to perform any functions (instead of 
being just a display) then you need to give it a menuPick handler.
>
> Are there some sample applications available to use as tutorials? I've 
> been through the tutorials supplied (barring the Independent Study 
> one) and they don't really help me with the syntax and structure of 
> Rev apps. Compared to more traditional languages, I find Transcript a 
> little strange and difficult to understand - but that's just a 
> familiarity thing I'm sure.
There is quite a good basic tutorial available with the Metacard 
starter kit and it works with Rev as well.
http://www.metacard.com/pi6.html
Apart from that any old HyperCard tutorials are quite good for learning 
the language although you then need to learn the differences.

Sarah




From kee at kagi.com  Tue Oct 15 19:06:10 2002
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Tue Oct 15 19:06:10 2002
Subject: Search and Replace
In-Reply-To: <B9D1E78D.1D08%dan@clearvisiontech.com>
Message-ID: <B9DA7731-E099-11D6-B78B-003065F25CD4@kagi.com>

On Tuesday, Oct 15, 2002, at 15:41 US/Pacific, Dan Friedman wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> I need to switch the gender of some text.  But, I'm having a hard time
> figuring out a way to do it.  Obviously I can't do a simple replace 
> because
>
> Replace "HE" with "SHE" in someText
>
> Would turn "HELP" into "SHELP"

The way I would do it is to find all instances of "he" and see if the 
character before it is an alpha and if the character after it is an 
alpha. Take into consideration that "H" might be the 1st char (no char 
alpha or otherwise preceding it) and/or "E" might be the last char (no 
additional chars following it). If the char before is not an alpha and 
the char after is not an alpha, then I'd do the swap.

If this is just one set of text, it should be pretty easy. If it is a 
gazillion cards with data stored on them, put the target words on the 
first card, go next card, then use find to locate a target card with a 
target word. Then crawl through that text to do the analysis and swaps. 
When you end up at the first card (since you will find the target word 
there) delete the target word and repeat with the next one.

I didn't look at your set of swap words but you might want to put them 
in such an order that this algorithm doesn't do strange things with 
words that have just been swapped in.

Kee Nethery



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 19:58:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 19:58:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
References: <B9D1D55D.46FA%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <003901c274ad$990f5bc0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

> For all intents and purposes, Rev ignores case.  On the desktop, reading
> file paths, file names, registry entries are all unaffected by case.  Most
> Web URLs are not case sensitive (a few are, especially where user
> names/passwords are included in the address string).  I can't think of any
> situation off the top of my head where case matters, aside from stack
> passwords, which I believe are case sensitive (perhaps someone else will
> chime in here).

Not quite, Scott. Unix servers that act as hosts are very case sensitive.
Windows and Mac hosts aren't, though, so you should make sure you have the
right case if the file(s) will be stored on a Unix server. (I ought to know;
my web site is on a Unix server...)

Just my $0.02,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 20:18:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 20:18:01 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>            <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>            <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>            <20021015191923.17032.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>            <20021015200424.93685.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>            <001101c2748a$b7f34ec0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom> <20021015212447.54484.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <004001c274b0$72806b40$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Perhaps it is part of the shell32.dll that was not updated on Win98 machines
with the IE 5 install...

The two pages that you can refer to to figure this out are:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/shellcc/pla
tform/Shell/reference/enums/csidl.asp

and

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/shellcc/pla
tform/shell/programmersguide/versions.asp

I've added those as reference links to the tip on my site for
clarification...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: <miscdas at boxfrog.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: get specialFolderpath(26)


> Yep, got it:
>
> c:\windows\system\shlwapi.dll   16\08\99
>
> I rechecked  put specialFolderPath(35)
> and verified  folder not found
>
> miscdas
>
> [snip]
> Ken Ray writes:
>
> > Really? According to my source, specialFolderPath(35) should be
supported as
> > a result of IE 5's installation; it was reported by Microsoft to be part
of
> > the the 'shlwapi.dll' installed w/IE5. Can you check and see if you have
> > that DLL?
> >
> > Ken Ray
> > Sons of Thunder Software
> > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Oct 15 20:29:01 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Oct 15 20:29:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <003901c274ad$990f5bc0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <B9D20C18.821F%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Ken Ray wrote:

>> For all intents and purposes, Rev ignores case.  On the desktop, reading
>> file paths, file names, registry entries are all unaffected by case.  Most
>> Web URLs are not case sensitive (a few are, especially where user
>> names/passwords are included in the address string).  I can't think of any
>> situation off the top of my head where case matters, aside from stack
>> passwords, which I believe are case sensitive (perhaps someone else will
>> chime in here).
> 
> Not quite, Scott. Unix servers that act as hosts are very case sensitive.
> Windows and Mac hosts aren't, though, so you should make sure you have the
> right case if the file(s) will be stored on a Unix server. (I ought to know;
> my web site is on a Unix server...)

Ken, maybe I misunderstood but I believe Dar was asking about Rev's
understanding of filenames, not the system's.  No doubt UNIX is strict about
filenames, but I'm pretty sure Rev doesn't care about case when
locating/reading filenames.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 21:14:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 21:14:01 2002
Subject: Search and Replace
Message-ID: <005e01c274b8$33406d60$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

> On Wednesday, Oct 16, 2002, at 08:41 Australia/Sydney, Dan Friedman
> wrote:
>
> > Greetings!
> >
> > I need to switch the gender of some text.  But, I'm having a hard time
> > figuring out a way to do it.  Obviously I can't do a simple replace
> > because
> >
> > Replace "HE" with "SHE" in someText
> >
> > Would turn "HELP" into "SHELP"
> >
> > I've written this function about a dozen times and it still isn't
> > working
> > perfectly.
>
> I feel a regex coming on. Are you there, Ken?


I'm here!  :-) It's a little tricky (what with the capitalization and
everything), but here goes:

function replaceGender whatText
  local tStart,tEnd
  put "he,him,himself,his,he's,boy,guy" into SearchWordsMale
  put "she,her,herself,her,she's,girl,gal" into SearchWordsFemale
  set the wholeMatches to true
  repeat forever
    get
matchChunk(whatText,"[^A-Za-z0-9](boy|h(e|im|is|imself|e's)|guy)[^A-Za-z0-9]
",tStart,tEnd)
    if it is true then
      put char tStart to tEnd of tText into tFoundChunk
      put (charToNum(toUpper(char 1 of tFoundChunk)) = charToNum(char 1 of
tFoundChunk) into isUpper
      put itemOffset(tFoundChunk,SearchWordsMale) into tItem
      if tItem <> 0 then
        put item tItem of SearchWordsFemale into temp
        if isUpper then put toUpper(char 1 of temp) into char 1 of temp
        put temp into char tStart to tEnd of whatText
      else
        -- you decide... bail? error out? ignore?
      end if
    else
      exit repeat
    end if
  end repeat
  return whatText
end replaceGender

Have fun!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 21:14:21 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 21:14:21 2002
Subject: Portable file names
References: <B9D20C18.821F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <006701c274b8$52846cd0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Ah. My mistake... sorry! :-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Portable file names


> Recently, Ken Ray wrote:
>
> >> For all intents and purposes, Rev ignores case.  On the desktop,
reading
> >> file paths, file names, registry entries are all unaffected by case.
Most
> >> Web URLs are not case sensitive (a few are, especially where user
> >> names/passwords are included in the address string).  I can't think of
any
> >> situation off the top of my head where case matters, aside from stack
> >> passwords, which I believe are case sensitive (perhaps someone else
will
> >> chime in here).
> >
> > Not quite, Scott. Unix servers that act as hosts are very case
sensitive.
> > Windows and Mac hosts aren't, though, so you should make sure you have
the
> > right case if the file(s) will be stored on a Unix server. (I ought to
know;
> > my web site is on a Unix server...)
>
> Ken, maybe I misunderstood but I believe Dar was asking about Rev's
> understanding of filenames, not the system's.  No doubt UNIX is strict
about
> filenames, but I'm pretty sure Rev doesn't care about case when
> locating/reading filenames.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
>
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
> Web: www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Oct 15 21:41:10 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Oct 15 21:41:10 2002
Subject: Cloning stacks
Message-ID: <E15F216A-E0AF-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I have an application with a stack that gets cloned to allow multiple 
instances of the same stack to be open, each showing different things 
as specified when they are opened. This works fine except that when I 
first clone the stack, it flashes up with it's label showing as "Copy 
of Original". Then I can rename it, but I always get that first ugly 
view.

I've tried locking the screen, I've tried hiding the original before 
cloning it, I've tried re-labelling the original before cloning, but I 
can't stop it showing this "Copy of...". Does anyone have any other 
ideas?

Thanks,
Sarah




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 22:02:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 22:02:01 2002
Subject: Cloning stacks
References: <E15F216A-E0AF-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <007d01c274be$eab08380$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Sarah,

The only reason you get "copy of <stack>" is because you don't have a label
set for your stack. If you set the label of the stack, when you clone it,
the cloned copy immediately has the label of the stack it was cloned from.

So it sounds like your stack is *named* "Original", but the label is
empty...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah" <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:35 PM
Subject: Cloning stacks


> I have an application with a stack that gets cloned to allow multiple
> instances of the same stack to be open, each showing different things
> as specified when they are opened. This works fine except that when I
> first clone the stack, it flashes up with it's label showing as "Copy
> of Original". Then I can rename it, but I always get that first ugly
> view.
>
> I've tried locking the screen, I've tried hiding the original before
> cloning it, I've tried re-labelling the original before cloning, but I
> can't stop it showing this "Copy of...". Does anyone have any other
> ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Sarah
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Tue Oct 15 22:15:01 2002
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Tue Oct 15 22:15:01 2002
Subject: Search and Replace  
Message-ID: <B9D223CB.1D17%dan@clearvisiontech.com>

Ken,

I can't get [your] function to work.  It never exits out of the repeat.
Although the matchChunk does return true, the tStart and tEnd variables are
never being filled with anything.  What am I doing wrong?

(Please excuse my ignorance in regards to the matchChunk call.. I've read
the docs about a zillion times and I still don't get matchChunk and
matchText)

Thanks!
-Dan

 
> I'm here!  :-) It's a little tricky (what with the capitalization and
> everything), but here goes:
> 
> function replaceGender whatText
> local tStart,tEnd
> put "he,him,himself,his,he's,boy,guy" into SearchWordsMale
> put "she,her,herself,her,she's,girl,gal" into SearchWordsFemale
> set the wholeMatches to true
> repeat forever
>   get
> matchChunk(whatText,"[^A-Za-z0-9](boy|h(e|im|is|imself|e's)|guy)[^A-Za-z0-9]
> ",tStart,tEnd)
>   if it is true then
>     put char tStart to tEnd of tText into tFoundChunk
>     put (charToNum(toUpper(char 1 of tFoundChunk)) = charToNum(char 1 of
> tFoundChunk) into isUpper
>     put itemOffset(tFoundChunk,SearchWordsMale) into tItem
>     if tItem <> 0 then
>       put item tItem of SearchWordsFemale into temp
>       if isUpper then put toUpper(char 1 of temp) into char 1 of temp
>       put temp into char tStart to tEnd of whatText
>     else
>       -- you decide... bail? error out? ignore?
>     end if
>   else
>     exit repeat
>   end if
> end repeat
> return whatText
> end replaceGender



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Oct 15 22:28:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Tue Oct 15 22:28:01 2002
Subject: Cloning stacks
In-Reply-To: <a05111a98b9d2867daa69@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <57172D4C-E0B6-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Thanks for the reply Ken, but it doesn't help. My original stack is 
actually NAMED "Setup" and has a label "Setup Slot". When I clone, I 
get a window titled "Copy of Setup"

This is Mac OS X 10.2, Rev 1.1.1 or Rev 1.5A7

Sarah

On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 12:59  pm, Ken Ray wrote:

> Sarah,
>
> The only reason you get "copy of <stack>" is because you don't have a 
> label
> set for your stack. If you set the label of the stack, when you clone 
> it,
> the cloned copy immediately has the label of the stack it was cloned 
> from.
>
> So it sounds like your stack is *named* "Original", but the label is
> empty...
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sarah" <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:35 PM
> Subject: Cloning stacks
>
>
>> I have an application with a stack that gets cloned to allow multiple
>> instances of the same stack to be open, each showing different things
>> as specified when they are opened. This works fine except that when I
>> first clone the stack, it flashes up with it's label showing as "Copy
>> of Original". Then I can rename it, but I always get that first ugly
>> view.
>>
>> I've tried locking the screen, I've tried hiding the original before
>> cloning it, I've tried re-labelling the original before cloning, but I
>> can't stop it showing this "Copy of...". Does anyone have any other
>> ideas?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sarah
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 22:48:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 22:48:01 2002
Subject: Search and Replace  
References: <B9D223CB.1D17%dan@clearvisiontech.com>
Message-ID: <008701c274c5$5588e750$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Dan,

Two things to check:

1) Check the script to make sure the "local tStart,tEnd" is in there; if it
isn't, Rev won't actually put anything in tStart or tEnd since they weren't
"localed".

2) Check to make sure in the matchchunk it says:

    (boy|h(e|im|is|imself|e's)|guy)

between the two [^A-Za-z0-9] and not:

    boy|h(e|im|is|imself|e's)|guy

... without the parentheses around it, there will be nothing to return as a
match.

Let me know if it still doesn't work...

Don't worry about not getting matchChunk and matchText... I've got a
mini-tutorial in the works on regEx in Rev/MC that I hope to have released
as soon as I get another chunk of time to complete it... ;-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Friedman" <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: Search and Replace


> Ken,
>
> I can't get [your] function to work.  It never exits out of the repeat.
> Although the matchChunk does return true, the tStart and tEnd variables
are
> never being filled with anything.  What am I doing wrong?
>
> (Please excuse my ignorance in regards to the matchChunk call.. I've read
> the docs about a zillion times and I still don't get matchChunk and
> matchText)
>
> Thanks!
> -Dan
>
>
> > I'm here!  :-) It's a little tricky (what with the capitalization and
> > everything), but here goes:
> >
> > function replaceGender whatText
> > local tStart,tEnd
> > put "he,him,himself,his,he's,boy,guy" into SearchWordsMale
> > put "she,her,herself,her,she's,girl,gal" into SearchWordsFemale
> > set the wholeMatches to true
> > repeat forever
> >   get
> >
matchChunk(whatText,"[^A-Za-z0-9](boy|h(e|im|is|imself|e's)|guy)[^A-Za-z0-9]
> > ",tStart,tEnd)
> >   if it is true then
> >     put char tStart to tEnd of tText into tFoundChunk
> >     put (charToNum(toUpper(char 1 of tFoundChunk)) = charToNum(char 1 of
> > tFoundChunk) into isUpper
> >     put itemOffset(tFoundChunk,SearchWordsMale) into tItem
> >     if tItem <> 0 then
> >       put item tItem of SearchWordsFemale into temp
> >       if isUpper then put toUpper(char 1 of temp) into char 1 of temp
> >       put temp into char tStart to tEnd of whatText
> >     else
> >       -- you decide... bail? error out? ignore?
> >     end if
> >   else
> >     exit repeat
> >   end if
> > end repeat
> > return whatText
> > end replaceGender
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 22:50:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 22:50:00 2002
Subject: Cloning stacks
References: <57172D4C-E0B6-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <008c01c274c5$a1622ba0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Wierd, Sarah, because I have the same OS and Rev, and it works for me.
Perhaps there are messages being trapped somewhere? Can you try to do this:

1) Open Rev and create a new stack with a name of "Tester" and a label of
"Hello". Save it
2) type "clone this stack" into the message box and hit return

Do you get a copy called "Copy of Tester" or "Hello"?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah" <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: Cloning stacks


> Thanks for the reply Ken, but it doesn't help. My original stack is
> actually NAMED "Setup" and has a label "Setup Slot". When I clone, I
> get a window titled "Copy of Setup"
>
> This is Mac OS X 10.2, Rev 1.1.1 or Rev 1.5A7
>
> Sarah
>
> On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 12:59  pm, Ken Ray wrote:
>
> > Sarah,
> >
> > The only reason you get "copy of <stack>" is because you don't have a
> > label
> > set for your stack. If you set the label of the stack, when you clone
> > it,
> > the cloned copy immediately has the label of the stack it was cloned
> > from.
> >
> > So it sounds like your stack is *named* "Original", but the label is
> > empty...
> >
> > Ken Ray
> > Sons of Thunder Software
> > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sarah" <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:35 PM
> > Subject: Cloning stacks
> >
> >
> >> I have an application with a stack that gets cloned to allow multiple
> >> instances of the same stack to be open, each showing different things
> >> as specified when they are opened. This works fine except that when I
> >> first clone the stack, it flashes up with it's label showing as "Copy
> >> of Original". Then I can rename it, but I always get that first ugly
> >> view.
> >>
> >> I've tried locking the screen, I've tried hiding the original before
> >> cloning it, I've tried re-labelling the original before cloning, but I
> >> can't stop it showing this "Copy of...". Does anyone have any other
> >> ideas?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Sarah
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From katir at hindu.org  Tue Oct 15 23:01:01 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Tue Oct 15 23:01:01 2002
Subject: Startkit limitations for stacks already containing long scripts
Message-ID: <366232F8-E0BB-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

IF

1.  I create a stack A with some long scripts in it. (more than 10 
lines)
2.  An associate in a far away country  downloads a copy of Revolution 
Starterkit.
3.  I send him or her a copy of stack A

THEN: Can she then create objects, cards, buttons, fields and add new 
scripts with ten lines or less and  edit scripts of objects that have 
less than ten lines? i.e. the original working document is 'beyond" the 
Startkit limitations, but the "Startkit" user never touches those long 
scripts... only works in scripts of  ten lines or less..will they be 
able to save the stack? They ship back to me for modifications in the 
stack script... they can make short scripts that call functions I build 
in the stack script etc.

Of course I can test this myself, but I don't want to shoot myself in 
the foot by not knowing something important that I might miss.

I want to be up front about staying within the "ethical" parameters of 
the educational license, but i can't justify purchasing more 
educational "seats" for these volunteers whose actual home usage of the 
program will be, overall, minimal from the  "big picture" point of 
view. And we are *truly* non profit (wish it weren't so, but we give 
away more than we get, or at least break even..)

Idea is to draft young volunteer collaborators who can't afford a 
license, but who would be excellent in the areas of UI design, art etc. 
while I back them up with any "heavy" scripting (longer than 10 lines) 
that might need to be done.

This could be an excellent promotion, because these young people, one 
day will have a salary and will jump to buy their own license as soon 
as their pockets are deep enough,...by then its a tool they know and 
love...meanwhile they are talking to all their friends and showing off 
this 'cool program"  and I can delegate basic educational presentation 
stacks creation, design tweaking etc. in the process... two mangos with 
one stone (as we vegetarians say...) one for Rev and one for Himalayan 
Academy. We are talking about young people in Kuala Lumpur,  Malaysia, 
Bangalore, India, San Francisco school of Fine Arts...usually in their 
last year of university or just fresh out of college...who I want to 
pull on board. They all have a computer and they are all really savvy.

Himalayan Academy Publications
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Editor's Assistant/Production Manager
katir at hindu.org
www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org

Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at
http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Tue Oct 15 23:03:00 2002
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Tue Oct 15 23:03:00 2002
Subject: Search and Replace  
Message-ID: <B9D22EDC.1D19%dan@clearvisiontech.com>

Ken,

Both of these items are correct.  But still doesn't exit the repeat.  Here's
what I have:

function replaceGender whatText
  local tStart,tEnd
  
  put "he,him,himself,his,he's,boy,guy" into SearchWordsMale
  put "she,her,herself,her,she's,girl,gal" into SearchWordsFemale
  set the wholeMatches to true
  repeat forever
    get 
matchChunk(whatText,"[^A-Za-z0-9](boy|h(e|im|is|imself|e's)|guy)[^A-Za-z0-9]
",tStart,tEnd)
    if it is true then
      put char tStart to tEnd of tText into tFoundChunk
      put (charToNum(toUpper(char 1 of tFoundChunk)) = charToNum(char 1 of
tFoundChunk)) into isUpper
      put itemOffset(tFoundChunk,SearchWordsMale) into tItem
      if tItem <> 0 then
        put item tItem of SearchWordsFemale into temp
        if isUpper then put toUpper(char 1 of temp) into char 1 of temp
        put temp into char tStart to tEnd of whatText
      else
        -- you decide... bail? error out? ignore?
      end if
    else
      exit repeat
    end if
  end repeat
  return whatText
end replaceGender



> Dan,
> 
> Two things to check:
> 
> 1) Check the script to make sure the "local tStart,tEnd" is in there; if it
> isn't, Rev won't actually put anything in tStart or tEnd since they weren't
> "localed".
> 
> 2) Check to make sure in the matchchunk it says:
> 
>   (boy|h(e|im|is|imself|e's)|guy)
> 
> between the two [^A-Za-z0-9] and not:
> 
>   boy|h(e|im|is|imself|e's)|guy
> 
> ... without the parentheses around it, there will be nothing to return as a
> match.
> 
> Let me know if it still doesn't work...
> 
> Don't worry about not getting matchChunk and matchText... I've got a
> mini-tutorial in the works on regEx in Rev/MC that I hope to have released
> as soon as I get another chunk of time to complete it... ;-)
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 15 23:33:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue Oct 15 23:33:01 2002
Subject: Search and Replace  
References: <B9D22EDC.1D19%dan@clearvisiontech.com>
Message-ID: <009301c274cb$af06b270$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Sorry, Dan, it looks like a typo. This line:

>       put char tStart to tEnd of tText into tFoundChunk


should read:

>       put char tStart to tEnd of whatText into tFoundChunk

Then everything should work OK. Sorry about that...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Friedman" <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:45 PM
Subject: Search and Replace


> Ken,
>
> Both of these items are correct.  But still doesn't exit the repeat.
Here's
> what I have:
>
> function replaceGender whatText
>   local tStart,tEnd
>
>   put "he,him,himself,his,he's,boy,guy" into SearchWordsMale
>   put "she,her,herself,her,she's,girl,gal" into SearchWordsFemale
>   set the wholeMatches to true
>   repeat forever
>     get
>
matchChunk(whatText,"[^A-Za-z0-9](boy|h(e|im|is|imself|e's)|guy)[^A-Za-z0-9]
> ",tStart,tEnd)
>     if it is true then
>       put char tStart to tEnd of tText into tFoundChunk
>       put (charToNum(toUpper(char 1 of tFoundChunk)) = charToNum(char 1 of
> tFoundChunk)) into isUpper
>       put itemOffset(tFoundChunk,SearchWordsMale) into tItem
>       if tItem <> 0 then
>         put item tItem of SearchWordsFemale into temp
>         if isUpper then put toUpper(char 1 of temp) into char 1 of temp
>         put temp into char tStart to tEnd of whatText
>       else
>         -- you decide... bail? error out? ignore?
>       end if
>     else
>       exit repeat
>     end if
>   end repeat
>   return whatText
> end replaceGender
>
>
>
> > Dan,
> >
> > Two things to check:
> >
> > 1) Check the script to make sure the "local tStart,tEnd" is in there; if
it
> > isn't, Rev won't actually put anything in tStart or tEnd since they
weren't
> > "localed".
> >
> > 2) Check to make sure in the matchchunk it says:
> >
> >   (boy|h(e|im|is|imself|e's)|guy)
> >
> > between the two [^A-Za-z0-9] and not:
> >
> >   boy|h(e|im|is|imself|e's)|guy
> >
> > ... without the parentheses around it, there will be nothing to return
as a
> > match.
> >
> > Let me know if it still doesn't work...
> >
> > Don't worry about not getting matchChunk and matchText... I've got a
> > mini-tutorial in the works on regEx in Rev/MC that I hope to have
released
> > as soon as I get another chunk of time to complete it... ;-)
> >
> > Ken Ray
> > Sons of Thunder Software
> > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 15 23:42:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 15 23:42:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <B9D20C18.821F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <D320CD2A-E0C0-11D6-961B-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 07:16 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Ken, maybe I misunderstood but I believe Dar was asking about Rev's
> understanding of filenames, not the system's.  No doubt UNIX is strict 
> about
> filenames, but I'm pretty sure Rev doesn't care about case when
> locating/reading filenames.

I think I lucked out and accidently asked the right question.  That was/is 
the right question isn't it?

Dar Scott



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Wed Oct 16 00:00:00 2002
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Wed Oct 16 00:00:00 2002
Subject: Search and Replace  
Message-ID: <B9D23C3E.1D1B%dan@clearvisiontech.com>

Ken,

Your the man!


> Sorry, Dan, it looks like a typo. This line:
> 
>>       put char tStart to tEnd of tText into tFoundChunk
> 
> 
> should read:
> 
>>       put char tStart to tEnd of whatText into tFoundChunk
> 
> Then everything should work OK. Sorry about that...
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Oct 16 00:16:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Wed Oct 16 00:16:01 2002
Subject: Cloning stacks
In-Reply-To: <a05111aa6b9d2918740a1@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <9EF36712-E0C5-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I get a copy called "Hello" so it must be something I am doing, either 
in the routine that clones the stack, or in the preOpenCard handler on 
the first card.

Thank, Ken.

Sarah

On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 01:46  pm, Ken Ray wrote:

> Wierd, Sarah, because I have the same OS and Rev, and it works for me.
> Perhaps there are messages being trapped somewhere? Can you try to do 
> this:
>
> 1) Open Rev and create a new stack with a name of "Tester" and a label 
> of
> "Hello". Save it
> 2) type "clone this stack" into the message box and hit return
>
> Do you get a copy called "Copy of Tester" or "Hello"?




From wordwork at c2i.net  Wed Oct 16 00:19:00 2002
From: wordwork at c2i.net (WordWork)
Date: Wed Oct 16 00:19:00 2002
Subject: Startkit limitations for stacks already containing long
	scripts
In-Reply-To: <366232F8-E0BB-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <B9D2C1F5.46C4%wordwork@c2i.net>

on 16-10-02 05:56, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami at katir at hindu.org wrote:

> IF
> THEN: Can she then create objects, cards, buttons, fields and add new
> scripts with ten lines or less and  edit scripts of objects that have
> less than ten lines? i.e. the original working document is 'beyond" the

> I want to be up front about staying within the "ethical" parameters of
> the educational license, but i can't justify purchasing more
> educational "seats" for these volunteers

> by then its a tool they know and love

I shall be most interested in replies to this post.  In the (long-distant)
past I was part of a research group (Language Development and HyperMedia
Research Group, University of Ulster, Coleraine, Northern Ireland, for those
who may be interested - but it's dead now) which investigated children's use
of the computer in the classroom. We used Hypercard (from version 1.??!!)
both to build our research tool, and to allow the children a "building
environment" for their own development.  It was fantastic, and gave them
many benefits, short- and long- term: manipulation of text, sound and pics;
collaboration; sense of achievment; development of lanugage skills; etc,
etc, etc.  And it was all free, therefore schools (at all academic levels)
could use it.  Problem: only for MAC, and scorned by PC population!!!

For years I have longed for something similar which was cross-platform, and
at last discovered Rev.  What a dream come true.  But the restraints with
the script limitations in the starter kit seem to me to be too restrictive.
I know that a clever programmer can reduce scripts to an absolute minimum,
but children can't manage that to begin with.  I'd like them to have the
opportunity to "build" even though their cumbersome scripting may be much
longer than 10 lines.  Educational licenses are still expensive for schools
with classes of young primary school children.

I am now a part-time English teacher at a teachers training college in
Norway, and would LOVE to have a Rev project going on in one of the many
schools I have who are interested in using IT in schools.  But I can't go on
a 10 line limitation!

Anyone else out there with comments, on- or off- line.  Perhaps from the
owners and developers of Rev.

Cheers, and thanks to all contributors for a great list.

-- 
Bill Gray 
WordWork
Buran
7600 Levanger
Norway
tlf:   +47 74089979
mob:   +47 95153265
epost: wordwork at c2i.net





From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 16 00:25:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 16 00:25:01 2002
Subject: Search and Replace  
References: <B9D23C3E.1D1B%dan@clearvisiontech.com>
Message-ID: <00a501c274d2$edd2e210$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Glad I could help out! :-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Friedman" <dan at clearvisiontech.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:42 PM
Subject: Search and Replace 


> Ken,
> 
> Your the man!
> 
> 
> > Sorry, Dan, it looks like a typo. This line:
> > 
> >>       put char tStart to tEnd of tText into tFoundChunk
> > 
> > 
> > should read:
> > 
> >>       put char tStart to tEnd of whatText into tFoundChunk
> > 
> > Then everything should work OK. Sorry about that...
> > 
> > Ken Ray
> > Sons of Thunder Software
> > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From Jacques.Hausser at ie-zea.unil.ch  Wed Oct 16 02:20:01 2002
From: Jacques.Hausser at ie-zea.unil.ch (Jacques HAUSSER)
Date: Wed Oct 16 02:20:01 2002
Subject: array questions..
In-Reply-To: <200210151736.NAA17607@www.runrev.com>
References: <200210151736.NAA17607@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p05100300b9d2bf0ead57@[130.223.51.31]>

>   I'd imagine that the arrays are actually hash
>tables, where the is no definite decernible order to how the keys come
>out. (I'm assumming that the 'keys' function just goes through memory in
>order' wehreas the creating of the key uses a complicated hash value of
>that key and won't neccessarily come up in order (a typical hash function
>would be:
>
>put 0 into val
>repeat for each char k in string
>	add chrnum(k)*9 to val
>end repeat
>put val mod 51 into val
>
>-- the modulus at the end should be a prime for optimal table
>non-clustering, and the multiplier on the alphanumeric factor might be
>important too to be a prime
>
>   Of course, this kind of hash table is almost a neccesity if your're
>dealing with variables like myArray("this") myArray("that") myArray("cat")
>and such, but with straight numeric addresses, I'd think a standard C-type
>array structure might be more efficient - of course, implmenting that as a
>hash table as well lets you add new keys in at will (say you have keys
>1,2,3,5,and 6, then wanted to add the 4 key in later.  No imagine doing
>this in a two-dimensional array with a "hole" or two in it.)


Thank you, Jim, I didn't think of that... but even so, I can't figure 
why my array cannot be transposed by the transpose function!

Jacques
-- 
==========================================
Prof. Jacques Hausser
Institut d'Ecologie
Laboratoire de Zoologie et d'Ecologie animale
B?timent de biologie
CH - 1015 Lausanne
tel: + 41 21 692 41 62
fax: + 41 21 692 41 65
eMail: Jacques.Hausser at ie-zea.unil.ch
==========================================


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Oct 16 02:59:01 2002
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Wed Oct 16 02:59:01 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <B9D1D480.1E4D4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <B9D1D480.1E4D4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <v04220800b9d2c92f88f9@[10.0.1.2]>

Thanks to all who replied!

"if they toss it your program won't run"  -- The idea is to have a location
to place such a file so if they do toss the entire folder (program and all)
and unzip a freshly downloaded version, the replacement will not run
as they have exceeded their trial limit.

26 is looking good...   ;-)


atb

sims



>>Text files can be edited with Notepad, the registry with RegEdit.
>>If you really want to annoy crackers put some critical part of your software
>>into a separate stack file and tuck a Base64- and/ot gzip-encoded copy of
>>your count there in a user prop.  Encoded, your data will be hard to spot in
>>the binary stack file, and if they toss it your program won't run.
>>
>>Nothing's crack-proof, but the trick is to make cracking sufficiently
>>annoying so as to be not worth the effort.  ;)
>>
>>--
>  Richard Gaskin



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 16 04:59:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Oct 16 04:59:01 2002
Subject: Startkit limitations for stacks already containing long scripts
In-Reply-To: <366232F8-E0BB-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <20021016095311.98961.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sannyasin Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> wrote:
> IF
>
> 1.  I create a stack A with some long scripts in it.
> (more than 10
> lines)
> 2.  An associate in a far away country  downloads a
> copy of Revolution
> Starterkit.
> 3.  I send him or her a copy of stack A
>
> THEN: Can she then create objects, cards, buttons,
> fields and add new
> scripts with ten lines or less and  edit scripts of
> objects that have
> less than ten lines? i.e. the original working
> document is 'beyond" the
> Startkit limitations, but the "Startkit" user never
> touches those long
> scripts... only works in scripts of  ten lines or
> less..will they be
> able to save the stack? They ship back to me for
> modifications in the
> stack script... they can make short scripts that
> call functions I build
> in the stack script etc.
>
> [snip]

Hi Sannyasin,

Your assumption is correct: you can provide the
'heavier' framework and let them make their own
10-line scripts. They will not be able to change the
longer scripts, but these will work just fine -- as
long as there are no syntax errors ;-)
Only MetaCard and/or Runtime Revolution can explain
about the legal details of course, but technically
it's feasible. Though as Bill Gray pointed out, that
limit may seriously hinder performance.

Hope this helped nonetheless,
Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From kevin at runrev.com  Wed Oct 16 07:02:01 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Wed Oct 16 07:02:01 2002
Subject: Startkit limitations for stacks already containing long
	scripts
In-Reply-To: <20021016095311.98961.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B9D30D82.BB2D%kevin@runrev.com>

On 16/10/02 10:53 am, Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Your assumption is correct: you can provide the
> 'heavier' framework and let them make their own
> 10-line scripts. They will not be able to change the
> longer scripts, but these will work just fine -- as
> long as there are no syntax errors ;-)
> Only MetaCard and/or Runtime Revolution can explain
> about the legal details of course, but technically
> it's feasible. Though as Bill Gray pointed out, that
> limit may seriously hinder performance.

There are no legal restrictions on doing this, if the end user is editing
scripts up to 10 lines that is fine.

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From bvlahos at mac.com  Wed Oct 16 08:56:01 2002
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Wed Oct 16 08:56:01 2002
Subject: Startkit limitations for stacks already containing long scripts
In-Reply-To: <B9D2C1F5.46C4%wordwork@c2i.net>
Message-ID: <233D40CA-E10E-11D6-B989-0003936A2C42@mac.com>

Bill,

Educational licenses are really pretty cheap (I think as low as $25 per 
student in the right volume). Perhaps you could either get someone to 
donate a set of licenses to the class or offer to the parents the 
ability to buy the licenses for their kids. That way they get to keep 
them after the class.

In the US, people get tax reductions for donating to schools. Is that 
true in Norway?

Bill Vlahos

On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 10:13  PM, WordWork wrote:

> on 16-10-02 05:56, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami at katir at hindu.org wrote:
>
>> IF
>> THEN: Can she then create objects, cards, buttons, fields and add new
>> scripts with ten lines or less and  edit scripts of objects that have
>> less than ten lines? i.e. the original working document is 'beyond" 
>> the
>
>> I want to be up front about staying within the "ethical" parameters of
>> the educational license, but i can't justify purchasing more
>> educational "seats" for these volunteers
>
>> by then its a tool they know and love
>
> I shall be most interested in replies to this post.  In the 
> (long-distant)
> past I was part of a research group (Language Development and 
> HyperMedia
> Research Group, University of Ulster, Coleraine, Northern Ireland, for 
> those
> who may be interested - but it's dead now) which investigated 
> children's use
> of the computer in the classroom. We used Hypercard (from version 
> 1.??!!)
> both to build our research tool, and to allow the children a "building
> environment" for their own development.  It was fantastic, and gave 
> them
> many benefits, short- and long- term: manipulation of text, sound and 
> pics;
> collaboration; sense of achievment; development of lanugage skills; 
> etc,
> etc, etc.  And it was all free, therefore schools (at all academic 
> levels)
> could use it.  Problem: only for MAC, and scorned by PC population!!!
>
> For years I have longed for something similar which was 
> cross-platform, and
> at last discovered Rev.  What a dream come true.  But the restraints 
> with
> the script limitations in the starter kit seem to me to be too 
> restrictive.
> I know that a clever programmer can reduce scripts to an absolute 
> minimum,
> but children can't manage that to begin with.  I'd like them to have 
> the
> opportunity to "build" even though their cumbersome scripting may be 
> much
> longer than 10 lines.  Educational licenses are still expensive for 
> schools
> with classes of young primary school children.
>
> I am now a part-time English teacher at a teachers training college in
> Norway, and would LOVE to have a Rev project going on in one of the 
> many
> schools I have who are interested in using IT in schools.  But I can't 
> go on
> a 10 line limitation!
>
> Anyone else out there with comments, on- or off- line.  Perhaps from 
> the
> owners and developers of Rev.
>
> Cheers, and thanks to all contributors for a great list.
>
> -- 
> Bill Gray
> WordWork
> Buran
> 7600 Levanger
> Norway
> tlf:   +47 74089979
> mob:   +47 95153265
> epost: wordwork at c2i.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From bvlahos at mac.com  Wed Oct 16 09:43:01 2002
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Wed Oct 16 09:43:01 2002
Subject: Startkit limitations for stacks already containing long scripts
In-Reply-To: <233D40CA-E10E-11D6-B989-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C458539D-E114-11D6-98A0-0003936A2C42@mac.com>

Correction. I just checked the Rev site and K-12 student pricing can be 
even cheaper than what I said below. It is $25 for 10 licenses and even 
cheaper for more.

I'm not sure what you want the Rev folks to do beyond those prices.

Bill Vlahos

On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 06:49  AM, Bill Vlahos wrote:

> Bill,
>
> Educational licenses are really pretty cheap (I think as low as $25 
> per student in the right volume). Perhaps you could either get someone 
> to donate a set of licenses to the class or offer to the parents the 
> ability to buy the licenses for their kids. That way they get to keep 
> them after the class.
>
> In the US, people get tax reductions for donating to schools. Is that 
> true in Norway?
>
> Bill Vlahos
>
> On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 10:13  PM, WordWork wrote:
>
>> on 16-10-02 05:56, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami at katir at hindu.org wrote:
>>
>>> IF
>>> THEN: Can she then create objects, cards, buttons, fields and add new
>>> scripts with ten lines or less and  edit scripts of objects that have
>>> less than ten lines? i.e. the original working document is 'beyond" 
>>> the
>>
>>> I want to be up front about staying within the "ethical" parameters 
>>> of
>>> the educational license, but i can't justify purchasing more
>>> educational "seats" for these volunteers
>>
>>> by then its a tool they know and love
>>
>> I shall be most interested in replies to this post.  In the 
>> (long-distant)
>> past I was part of a research group (Language Development and 
>> HyperMedia
>> Research Group, University of Ulster, Coleraine, Northern Ireland, 
>> for those
>> who may be interested - but it's dead now) which investigated 
>> children's use
>> of the computer in the classroom. We used Hypercard (from version 
>> 1.??!!)
>> both to build our research tool, and to allow the children a "building
>> environment" for their own development.  It was fantastic, and gave 
>> them
>> many benefits, short- and long- term: manipulation of text, sound and 
>> pics;
>> collaboration; sense of achievment; development of lanugage skills; 
>> etc,
>> etc, etc.  And it was all free, therefore schools (at all academic 
>> levels)
>> could use it.  Problem: only for MAC, and scorned by PC population!!!
>>
>> For years I have longed for something similar which was 
>> cross-platform, and
>> at last discovered Rev.  What a dream come true.  But the restraints 
>> with
>> the script limitations in the starter kit seem to me to be too 
>> restrictive.
>> I know that a clever programmer can reduce scripts to an absolute 
>> minimum,
>> but children can't manage that to begin with.  I'd like them to have 
>> the
>> opportunity to "build" even though their cumbersome scripting may be 
>> much
>> longer than 10 lines.  Educational licenses are still expensive for 
>> schools
>> with classes of young primary school children.
>>
>> I am now a part-time English teacher at a teachers training college in
>> Norway, and would LOVE to have a Rev project going on in one of the 
>> many
>> schools I have who are interested in using IT in schools.  But I 
>> can't go on
>> a 10 line limitation!
>>
>> Anyone else out there with comments, on- or off- line.  Perhaps from 
>> the
>> owners and developers of Rev.
>>
>> Cheers, and thanks to all contributors for a great list.
>>
>> -- 
>> Bill Gray
>> WordWork
>> Buran
>> 7600 Levanger
>> Norway
>> tlf:   +47 74089979
>> mob:   +47 95153265
>> epost: wordwork at c2i.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Oct 16 10:12:00 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed Oct 16 10:12:00 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <008d01c27476$d88edf00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <D110B8D6-DF89-11D6-8D20-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
 <000701c273a5$2b0dadb0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <a05100300b9d1f3c780dd@[216.229.107.168]>
 <008d01c27476$d88edf00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9d32bab76cb@[216.229.107.62]>

Hi Ken,

>  > 1. I recall Ken Ray telling me that a file extension is required on
>>  some platforms.
>
>Only if you want to map a Rev stack file to an application as a "document"
>(for Windows). Technically it doesn't need to have one for other uses (so
>for example if you have a Rev stack that is always next to your standalone
>and read by that standalone but never 2x-clicked).

This is what you wrote me on 7 July:

>>2) Several of the files do not have an extension (READ ME FIRST, for
example); you need to make sure all files have extensions (even though on
Mac OS 9 they're not necessary, they are on OS X and Windows).
<<

>
>>  2. I don't know whether these are platform issues or ISP issues, but:
>>
>>  a. extensions longer than three characters (eg: .html) can loose the
>>  4th & subsequent characters
>
>They shouldn't. File extensions longer than 3 characters are supported on
>all platforms (AFAIK), including UNIX and Windows servers. Can you provide
>an example of where you've seen that truncated to 3 characters?
>

It happened months, if not years ago, and I've stuck with 
three-character extensions ever since.  What I need is to  create a 
list of these "truths" and retest them every six to ten months to see 
if I'm still correct.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Oct 16 10:12:31 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed Oct 16 10:12:31 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <v04220800b9d1ed81244c@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
 <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
 <003301c2745a$4a100e00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220800b9d1ed81244c@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <a05100302b9d32eb52dc5@[216.229.107.62]>

>>And this shows, for example, that Windows NT does not support code 26,

Hi All,

Can anyone tell me where code 26 is documented?  As I noted 
yesterday, the Rev Dictionary talks about Desktop, System, Start, 
Documents, Fonts, & Temporary, not code 26 or 35.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Oct 16 10:12:48 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed Oct 16 10:12:48 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <p05111b06b9d223790adf@[192.168.123.3]>
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
 <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
 <003301c2745a$4a100e00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220800b9d1ed81244c@[10.0.1.2]>
 <a05100301b9d1f8b7aa02@[216.229.107.62]>
 <p05111b06b9d223790adf@[192.168.123.3]>
Message-ID: <a05100303b9d32f845e3b@[216.229.107.62]>

>There is a potential problem here if you need to write data to this 
>folder and your app is installed in the Program Files folder.

Thanks for the heads up, Dave.  Can you give me more details or point 
me to a URL that explains this?

How does one configure an app for Windows installation so that users 
without access to the Program Files folder AND system administrators 
can install it?

It's beginning to sound like an installer program is necessary for 
all Windows installs.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Oct 16 10:42:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed Oct 16 10:42:01 2002
Subject: Cloning stacks
In-Reply-To: <E15F216A-E0AF-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <E15F216A-E0AF-11D6-9B68-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <a05100304b9d333f56977@[216.229.107.148]>

>I have an application with a stack that gets cloned to allow 
>multiple instances of the same stack to be open, each showing 
>different things as specified when they are opened. This works fine 
>except that when I first clone the stack, it flashes up with it's 
>label showing as "Copy of Original". Then I can rename it, but I 
>always get that first ugly view.
>
>I've tried locking the screen, I've tried hiding the original before 
>cloning it, I've tried re-labelling the original before cloning, but 
>I can't stop it showing this "Copy of...". Does anyone have any 
>other ideas?

Hi Sarah,

Have you tried setting the template stack to invisible before cloning 
it, a la Richard Gaskin's Employee Database tutorial?  (Perhaps 
that's what you meant by hiding it?)

It works for me on OS9.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 16 10:52:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 16 10:52:00 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au> <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom> <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]> <003301c2745a$4a100e00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom> <v04220800b9d1ed81244c@[10.0.1.2]> <a05100302b9d32eb52dc5@[216.229.107.62]>
Message-ID: <000801c2752a$80d1e230$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Rob,

I've got it detailed here:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_win003

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: get specialFolderpath(26)


> >>And this shows, for example, that Windows NT does not support code 26,
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Can anyone tell me where code 26 is documented?  As I noted 
> yesterday, the Rev Dictionary talks about Desktop, System, Start, 
> Documents, Fonts, & Temporary, not code 26 or 35.
> -- 
> 
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm
> 
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
> 
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 16 10:54:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 16 10:54:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
References: <D110B8D6-DF89-11D6-8D20-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> <000701c273a5$2b0dadb0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom> <a05100300b9d1f3c780dd@[216.229.107.168]> <008d01c27476$d88edf00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom> <a05100300b9d32bab76cb@[216.229.107.62]>
Message-ID: <000d01c2752a$e30420d0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

> >  > 1. I recall Ken Ray telling me that a file extension is required on
> >>  some platforms.
> >
> >Only if you want to map a Rev stack file to an application as a
"document"
> >(for Windows). Technically it doesn't need to have one for other uses (so
> >for example if you have a Rev stack that is always next to your
standalone
> >and read by that standalone but never 2x-clicked).
>
> This is what you wrote me on 7 July:
>
> >>2) Several of the files do not have an extension (READ ME FIRST, for
> example); you need to make sure all files have extensions (even though on
> Mac OS 9 they're not necessary, they are on OS X and Windows).

Yes, and that was because the READ ME FIRST file was one that effectively
"asked" the user to double-click it. If you have Rev files that don't need
to be double-clicked (i.e. they're opened from within another program
automatically), you can forego the extension. Personally, I feel that *all
files* on *all platforms* should have an extension for multiplatform
compatibility, but that's just my opinion. ;-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Oct 16 11:11:01 2002
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Wed Oct 16 11:11:01 2002
Subject: Startkit limitations for stacks already containing long
	scripts
In-Reply-To: <B9D2C1F5.46C4%wordwork@c2i.net>
Message-ID: <B9D2DF30.5E08%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 10/15/02 10:13 PM, WordWork at wordwork at c2i.net wrote:

> I am now a part-time English teacher at a teachers training college in
> Norway, and would LOVE to have a Rev project going on in one of the many
> schools I have who are interested in using IT in schools.  But I can't go on
> a 10 line limitation!
----------
I'm not giving away any secrets here. Two possible solutions:

1) Build your own library of nestable 10-line routines into a UI for the
students. All they have to do is build stacks and objects which call them as
needed, including nesting them into each other. Mostly, the hierarchy will
determine how they work. Something like:

on myHandler
  global A1,B1,C1,lNum ** etc.
  put line lNum of field "Significant Numbers" into B1
  startAddNef
end myHandler

on startAddNef
  global B1,C1
  if B1 + 13 = C1 then routA
  else if B1 + 13 < C1 then routB
  else if B1 + 13 > C1 then routC
end startAddNef

on routA
  global A1,F1
  ** keyWords
  ** conditional statements, etc.
  ** whatever you decide you want it to do
  if F1 is true then graphWorld
end routA

...you get the idea.
  

2) Build a parser that can break up long scripts into 10-line segments in
conjuction with an assembler that loads and activates each in the order they
were written. A bit slow, but will work.



From michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk  Wed Oct 16 13:29:01 2002
From: michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk (Michael Kristensen)
Date: Wed Oct 16 13:29:01 2002
Subject: Repeatloop in mouseDown handler wont end
In-Reply-To: <200210151048.GAA04876@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20F9FCDC-E134-11D6-8029-0050E405EA7D@dsa-net.dk>

Hi all

Thanks to Jan Schenkel and Ken Ray for clarifying.

The article at Hyperactivesw was very interesting!

Kind regards

Michael Kristensen



From Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu  Wed Oct 16 13:51:01 2002
From: Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu (Timothy Hart)
Date: Wed Oct 16 13:51:01 2002
Subject: 1.5
Message-ID: <fc.004c4d190f467562004c4d190f467562.f467665@umit.maine.edu>

Does anyone know when version 1.5 is going to come out?  I saw it at macworld this summer.  What is the hold up?  The XML stuff looks cool.

-Tim









From wordwork at c2i.net  Wed Oct 16 14:20:01 2002
From: wordwork at c2i.net (WordWork)
Date: Wed Oct 16 14:20:01 2002
Subject: Startkit limitations for stacks already containing long
	scripts
In-Reply-To: <B9D30D82.BB2D%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9D386E9.46E4%wordwork@c2i.net>

Dear all,

on 16-10-02 15:49, Bill Vlahos at bvlahos at mac.com wrote:
> Correction. I just checked the Rev site and K-12 student pricing can be
> even cheaper than what I said below. It is $25 for 10 licenses and even
> cheaper for more.
Thanks Bill!  My apologies to the list and the folks at Rev!!  I should have
checked that first.  That's not too much for us to find in research monies.
I look forward to some good years ahead!!  (Just so excited about my
discovery, I guess, to take the time to check that one out!!)
 
> I'm not sure what you want the Rev folks to do beyond those prices.
> In the US, people get tax reductions for donating to schools. Is that
> true in Norway?
No way, Bill. This is a socialist country!!  They've just introduced the
possibility in this year's budget (not law yet) to upgrade volontary
donations from kr.900 per year to 6000 - we're progressing (though we do
have many other fantastic advantages: have you seen our scenery!!)


on 16-10-02 13:35, Kevin Miller at kevin at runrev.com wrote:
> There are no legal restrictions on doing this, if the end user is editing
> scripts up to 10 lines that is fine.
This is good news too, of course!


on 16-10-02 18:17, Ken Norris (dialup) at pixelbird at interisland.net wrote:
> I'm not giving away any secrets here. Two possible solutions:
> 1. (etc, etc, etc. see Ken's posting)
Thanks Ken for these helpful hints.  I'm not an expert programmer by any
means, but yes, I get the picture.  It's just a little more complex than we
were used with HyperCard.  But that said, we're getting a lot more than HC
here!! (cross platform, and much more control over what we CAN do, I think)


Many thanks to all who responded so promptly.  This is a great list, and
though I usually just READ, it's good to know the community of enthusiasts
is out there.

Good work.

-- 
Bill Gray 
WordWork
Buran
7600 Levanger
Norway
tlf:   +47 74089979
mob:   +47 95153265
epost: wordwork at c2i.net





From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Oct 16 14:45:01 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves =?iso-8859-1?Q?Copp=E9?=)
Date: Wed Oct 16 14:45:01 2002
Subject: option menu Btn
Message-ID: <p05111700b9d37117f50d@[10.0.1.204]>

Hi,

I've created an option menu btn in mac OS X 10.1.5
The menu is a list of item and some hierarchical subMenu Item

My handler is

if the selectedText of me is "xxx" then

else if the selectedText of me is "yyy" then

else...

end if



This doesn't work. I cannot access my script from the selectedtext

How can I do ?

Thanks.
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be


From katir at hindu.org  Wed Oct 16 15:36:01 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Wed Oct 16 15:36:01 2002
Subject: OT searching for the perfect  FTP client?
Message-ID: <54B869DE-E146-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

shamelessly OT, but wanted to share

In the search for the perfect FTP client...  just discovered

osXigen

http://www.osXigen.com

OSX Cocoa, really fast, SSH SFTP,
and, Yes!
an excellent website management/sync interface that actually works.




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 16 16:03:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Oct 16 16:03:00 2002
Subject: option menu Btn
In-Reply-To: <p05111700b9d37117f50d@[10.0.1.204]>
Message-ID: <20021016205724.78071.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Yves Copp? <yvescoppe at skynet.be> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've created an option menu btn in mac OS X 10.1.5
> The menu is a list of item and some hierarchical
> subMenu Item
> 
> My handler is
> 
> if the selectedText of me is "xxx" then
> 
> else if the selectedText of me is "yyy" then
> 
> else...
> 
> end if
> 
> 
> 
> This doesn't work. I cannot access my script from
> the selectedtext
> 
> How can I do ?
> 
> Thanks.
> -- 
> Greetings.
> 
> Yves COPPE
> 

Hi Yves,

The selected line is actually copied into the 'label'
property when an item is selected.
If you want to react to a user's choice, you should
handle the 'menuPick' event.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 16 16:13:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Oct 16 16:13:00 2002
Subject: option menu Btn
In-Reply-To: <20021016205724.78071.qmail@web11907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021016210741.78979.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- Yves Copp? <yvescoppe at skynet.be> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I've created an option menu btn in mac OS X 10.1.5
> > The menu is a list of item and some hierarchical
> > subMenu Item
> > 
> > My handler is
> > 
> > if the selectedText of me is "xxx" then
> > 
> > else if the selectedText of me is "yyy" then
> > 
> > else...
> > 
> > end if
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > This doesn't work. I cannot access my script from
> > the selectedtext
> > 
> > How can I do ?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > -- 
> > Greetings.
> > 
> > Yves COPPE
> > 
> 
> Hi Yves,
> 
> The selected line is actually copied into the
> 'label'
> property when an item is selected.
> If you want to react to a user's choice, you should
> handle the 'menuPick' event.
> 
> Hope this helped,
> 
> Jan Schenkel.
> 

And before I forget, there's also the menuHistory
property, which works for all kinds of menus, not just
the option menus.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Wed Oct 16 16:22:00 2002
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Wed Oct 16 16:22:00 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <a05100303b9d32f845e3b@[216.229.107.62]>
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
 <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
 <003301c2745a$4a100e00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220800b9d1ed81244c@[10.0.1.2]>
 <a05100301b9d1f8b7aa02@[216.229.107.62]>
 <p05111b06b9d223790adf@[192.168.123.3]>
 <a05100303b9d32f845e3b@[216.229.107.62]>
Message-ID: <p05111b01b9d374869e30@[192.168.123.3]>

At 8:04 am -0700 16/10/02, Rob Cozens wrote:
>>There is a potential problem here if you need to write data to this
>>folder and your app is installed in the Program Files folder.
>
>Thanks for the heads up, Dave.  Can you give me more details or
>point me to a URL that explains this?

The url I had no longer points to the same page. The one below might 
be of some help. It's for handling application and user data with 
Visual C++.NET, so it should be a piece of cake for us xtalk people. 
:)

<http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q310294>

>How does one configure an app for Windows installation so that users
>without access to the Program Files folder AND system administrators
>can install it?

In a multi-user world, it's the machine's Administrator (superuser, 
root, whatever) who controls what other users of the machine can do, 
so first you should assume it may not be possible for another user to 
install an application to a common location. I guess that's how it 
should be.

Newer installers on Windows XP typically ask for an Administrator 
password if the currently logged on user doesn't have Administrator 
rights. (Just like in OS X.) Older installers usually don't ask for a 
password, but will probably fail to install if the current user 
doesn't have at least "power user" rights.

Again like in OS X, drag and drop installation can work on Windows. 
And Rev makes this easy to do. But drag and drop is restricted to the 
locations where the user is allowed to put files.

On XP, it seems these locations are more restricted than on previous 
Windows versions. I believe the problem is worse with the Home 
edition of XP, as only two types of user can be created: 
Administrators and Plain Users. The Pro edition has all kinds of 
pre-configured users.

To do things "properly", a commercial installer is probably the easiest way.

Cheers
Dave





From katir at hindu.org  Wed Oct 16 21:47:01 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Wed Oct 16 21:47:01 2002
Subject: ftp download error "not a plain file"
Message-ID: <B29CCB68-E176-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

I have this script in a list field which has file names previously 
fetched using NLST

on mouseup
   put the clicktext into jai
   put "ftp://katir:myPass at our.kauai.server.org/Public/Sheela/New-Not 
Yet Posted/" & jai into tURL
   put tURL ; wait 1 seconds
   get url  tURL
   put it
   wait 1 second
   put the result

end mouseup

"it" is empty and result:

error  550 /Public/Sheela/New-Not Yet 
Posted/9-19-02_Mauritius_Trip_Talks.txt: not a plain file.

now, these files are files that are generated and uploaded by a Rev app 
I created which is in use by someone in Chennai (Madras) India... and 
they definitely *are* plain text files... ??

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!
Himalayan Academy Publications
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
katir at hindu.org
www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org

Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at
http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml



From katir at hindu.org  Wed Oct 16 22:37:01 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Wed Oct 16 22:37:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <000d01c2752a$e30420d0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <12CA965E-E181-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

I don't know if this is useful to share, but if only to perhaps confirm 
the wisdom of 25 characters and .ext as a good constraint despite what 
the OS might tell you:

I am having some real anamolies  in this area with OSX-Jaquar... which 
I thought supported long files names..

I have files previously saved under OS 9  where elipses were introduced 
to truncate long subject lines in emails of audio transcripts:

03-09-02 The Ne?ligion - Part 2

now the finder will show elipses under a narrow view but the full file 
name can be copied out:

8-25-02_2002_Kauai_Innersearch_Day_3,_Part_3_.txt

Where these were file names generated with a "Save as" from Apple's 
mail.app. defaulting to filename=subject line of msg.

*but* ! any attempt to change a character in the long file name 
manually in the finder returns an error message that it is too long... 
even though Jaquar accepted the long file name in a system level 
openfile process

to make matters even more interesting, but less fun.. libURL  replaces 
the elipses previously introduced in long file names in OS9 with some 
high ASCII garbage in an FTP download over the LAN:

Long_filenameFront???LongNameEnd.txt

Question: what is the length limitation on a system such as a Solaris 
Unix server?









On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 05:44  AM, Ken Ray wrote:

>>>> 1. I recall Ken Ray telling me that a file extension is required on
>>>>  some platforms.
>>>
>>> Only if you want to map a Rev stack file to an application as a
> "document"
>>> (for Windows). Technically it doesn't need to have one for other 
>>> uses (so
>>> for example if you have a Rev stack that is always next to your
> standalone
>>> and read by that standalone but never 2x-clicked).
>>
>> This is what you wrote me on 7 July:
>>
>>>> 2) Several of the files do not have an extension (READ ME FIRST, for
>> example); you need to make sure all files have extensions (even 
>> though on
>> Mac OS 9 they're not necessary, they are on OS X and Windows).
>
> Yes, and that was because the READ ME FIRST file was one that 
> effectively
> "asked" the user to double-click it. If you have Rev files that don't 
> need
> to be double-clicked (i.e. they're opened from within another program
> automatically), you can forego the extension. Personally, I feel that 
> *all
> files* on *all platforms* should have an extension for multiplatform
> compatibility, but that's just my opinion. ;-)
>
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Thanks!
Himalayan Academy Publications
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Editor's Assistant/Production Manager
www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Oct 17 01:34:00 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE)
Date: Thu Oct 17 01:34:00 2002
Subject: option menu Btn
In-Reply-To: <20021016210741.78979.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021016210741.78979.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p05100300b9d40855edf1@[10.0.1.202]>

>--- Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  > >
>>
>>  Hi Yves,
>>
>>  The selected line is actually copied into the
>>  'label'
>>  property when an item is selected.
>>  If you want to react to a user's choice, you should
>>  handle the 'menuPick' event.
>>
>>  Hope this helped,
>>
>>  Jan Schenkel.
>>
>
>And before I forget, there's also the menuHistory
>property, which works for all kinds of menus, not just
>the option menus.
>


1) the menuhistory gives "1" for the first submenu item AND for the 
first menu item
2) I've tried with menupick. It doesn't work !

try something like :

an option menu btn with menu
one
two
three->four
five

and the following script :

on menuPick pWhich
   answer the menuHistory of me
   switch pWhich
   case "One"
     beep
     break
    case "Two"
     beep
     break
   case "Three|Four"
     beep 2
     break
   case "Five"
     beep
     break
   end switch
end menuPick


It doesn't work !
can you help me ?

Thanks.
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be


From jeanne at runrev.com  Thu Oct 17 02:50:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu Oct 17 02:50:01 2002
Subject: ftp download error "not a plain file"
In-Reply-To: <B29CCB68-E176-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <v0313030fb9d3dbc169f9@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:18 PM -0700 10/16/2002, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>error  550 /Public/Sheela/New-Not Yet
>Posted/9-19-02_Mauritius_Trip_Talks.txt: not a plain file.
>
>now, these files are files that are generated and uploaded by a Rev app
>I created which is in use by someone in Chennai (Madras) India... and
>they definitely *are* plain text files... ??

The error "not a plain file" from an FTP server usually means it thinks
it's a directory, in my experience. What does the file look like if you
take a look with another FTP application? Can it be downloaded
successfully? This may help narrow down the problem.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Thu Oct 17 02:52:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu Oct 17 02:52:01 2002
Subject: arrays
In-Reply-To: <p05100302b9d1c2e86cfd@[130.223.51.31]>
Message-ID: <v03130316b9d4127844fd@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:36 AM -0700 10/15/2002, Jacques HAUSSER wrote:
>Transpose: I tried "put transpose(Gdonnees) into Gdonnees", and the answer was
>"can't transpose this array" (the same if the transpose was put into
>another variable).
>It was a 10 x 28 global array (with numeric keys) which was perfectly
>transposable with a hand-made transposition function, but I'm sure
>the built-in function would increase the speed - if it agrees to
>work. Which reason(s) can prevent transpose to work ?

Not sure. Are the keys in your array successive numbers (that is 1,2,3...
with no gaps)? Perhaps you could post the code that generates the array.


>another question: if one has a global array, say GArray, and wants to
>clean it, are the results of "delete GArray" and "put empty into
>GArray" exactly equivalents?

No. Using the "put empty into" command, the global variable still exists
but has nothing in it (therefore the keys function returns empty because
the variable has no elements). But it still appears in the globalNames and
variableNames functions.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Thu Oct 17 02:53:38 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu Oct 17 02:53:38 2002
Subject: Downloading and running compressed stacks
In-Reply-To: <7D599291-DF42-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <v03130317b9d415a8047e@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:59 PM -0700 10/13/2002, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>This is problably in the archives somewhere... but, no search engine:
>
>(Can someone repost that google search string again? Thanks)

<http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com>

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Thu Oct 17 02:55:11 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu Oct 17 02:55:11 2002
Subject: option menu Btn
In-Reply-To: <p05111700b9d37117f50d@[10.0.1.204]>
Message-ID: <v03130318b9d416f151df@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:42 PM -0700 10/16/2002, Yves Copp? wrote:
>I've created an option menu btn in mac OS X 10.1.5
>The menu is a list of item and some hierarchical subMenu Item

Hierarchical menus in option menus aren't supported. (They sort of work on
some platforms but not on others, and UI guidelines generally say they
should not be used.)

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Thu Oct 17 02:56:45 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu Oct 17 02:56:45 2002
Subject: Popup Menu - Show on mouse over
In-Reply-To: <FE26A527-E045-11D6-882E-0050E4CE1D03@ldml.com>
References: <20021015113119.28569.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <v03130319b9d417877513@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:57 AM -0700 10/15/2002, Simon Forster wrote:
>Are there some sample applications available to use as tutorials? I've
>been through the tutorials supplied (barring the Independent Study one)
>and they don't really help me with the syntax and structure of Rev
>apps.

I would go ahead and try out the independent study tutorial. It includes a
full sample app with heavily-commented code, and will probably be useful to
you in learning to wrap your head around the way Rev apps are built.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Thu Oct 17 02:58:19 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu Oct 17 02:58:19 2002
Subject: questions re button behavior
In-Reply-To: <4E5B00EE-DFCB-11D6-9E90-000393158950@mac.com>
References: <20021013071551.59844.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <v0313031ab9d418ccc195@[10.0.1.3]>

At 4:18 PM -0700 10/14/2002, Alan Gayne wrote:
>1.	I've recently created a number of "popUp" menu buttons with 3 to 7
>lines of content.  No matter how I fiddle the settings I can't seem to
>get these to show a border - I've made sure that the "show border" check
>box is checked and that works fine with "pulldown" menu buttons, but not
>on the "popUp".  I want to use the "popUp" style because I want the
>menus to appear off to the side, not straight down.  This is probably
>something simple - but I haven't been able to figure it out.

As far as I know, you can't get the popup style to appear with a border.

I'd create a standard or rectangle button to show on the screen, put the
popup button behind it, and use this in the rectangle button:

  on mouseDown
    popup button "The Popup" at the bottomLeft of me
  end mouseDown


>2.	Is it possible to set the label of a "pulldown" button to one font
>and the menu list to another?

No.

>3.	I've created a tab button whose background color changes depending
>on the menuPick choice.  This works fine in OS 9.2.2, but no color
>appears at all in OS X 10.1.5.  This behavior does not seem to apply to
>other button styles.  Is this a limitation of the appearance manager
>which I will have to live with?

I believe so, unfortunately. About the best I can offer is to include a
rectangular graphic sized to fit in front of the tab, and change its
backgroundColor depending on the choice made.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Oct 17 03:29:01 2002
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu Oct 17 03:29:01 2002
Subject: ftp download error "not a plain file"
In-Reply-To: <B29CCB68-E176-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
References: <B29CCB68-E176-11D6-931D-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <p05111b00b9d41ae0ffa9@[192.168.123.3]>

At 4:18 pm -1000 16/10/02, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
>I have this script in a list field which has file names previously
>fetched using NLST
>
>on mouseup
>   put the clicktext into jai
>   put "ftp://katir:myPass at our.kauai.server.org/Public/Sheela/New-Not
>Yet Posted/" & jai into tURL
>   put tURL ; wait 1 seconds
>   get url  tURL
>   put it
>   wait 1 second
>   put the result
>
>end mouseup
>
>"it" is empty and result:
>
>error  550 /Public/Sheela/New-Not Yet
>Posted/9-19-02_Mauritius_Trip_Talks.txt: not a plain file.
>
>now, these files are files that are generated and uploaded by a Rev
>app I created which is in use by someone in Chennai (Madras)
>India... and they definitely *are* plain text files... ??

550 means the action wasn't taken for some reason. "not a plain file" 
is a generic message sent by a some servers, and seems to cover a 
variety of issues. I'd check the permissions on the file and see if 
everyone has read permission. Use LIST instead of NLST to get a 
listing with all the permission details.

Cheers
Dave


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Oct 17 04:06:00 2002
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu Oct 17 04:06:00 2002
Subject: UTF-8 and Revolution
In-Reply-To: <20021013115314.65FB4A%00000000@laposte.net>
References: <20021013115314.65FB4A%00000000@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <p05111b05b9d4297b6bfb@[192.168.123.3]>

At 11:53 am +0200 13/10/02, Ludovic Th?bault wrote:
>It is possible to decoding the charset UTF-8 with Revolution ?
>(on MacOS X)
>Or it is for (the/a) next release ?

I don't know if this will be in the next release.

Meanwhile I've hacked up some functions that convert between UTF-8 
and isoLatin/macLatin. (both directions).That is, they will convert 
the Latin characters found in the 128-255 range of plain Latin 
character sets (West European, I think). If that limited 
functionality is of any use to anyone, I can make a more useable 
stack available and post it somewhere.

Cheers
Dave


From Jacques.Hausser at ie-zea.unil.ch  Thu Oct 17 05:11:01 2002
From: Jacques.Hausser at ie-zea.unil.ch (Jacques HAUSSER)
Date: Thu Oct 17 05:11:01 2002
Subject: arrays
In-Reply-To: <200210170700.DAA00873@www.runrev.com>
References: <200210170700.DAA00873@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p05100300b9d42426fabc@[130.223.51.31]>

At 3:00 -0400 17.10.2002, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>  >Transpose: I tried "put transpose(Gdonnees) into Gdonnees", and 
>the answer was
>>"can't transpose this array" (the same if the transpose was put into
>>another variable).
>>It was a 10 x 28 global array (with numeric keys) which was perfectly
>>transposable with a hand-made transposition function, but I'm sure
>>the built-in function would increase the speed - if it agrees to
>>work. Which reason(s) can prevent transpose to work ?
>
>Not sure. Are the keys in your array successive numbers (that is 1,2,3...
>with no gaps)? Perhaps you could post the code that generates the array.
>
>
>>another question: if one has a global array, say GArray, and wants to
>>clean it, are the results of "delete GArray" and "put empty into
>>GArray" exactly equivalents?
>
>No. Using the "put empty into" command, the global variable still exists
>but has nothing in it (therefore the keys function returns empty because
>the variable has no elements). But it still appears in the globalNames and
>variableNames functions.


Thanks, Jane

The array is filled from a datasheet (the detailed scripts are a bit 
long to be sent) and the code is something like that (filledField has 
a name like "FLC 2 5"):

put word 2 of the short name of filledField into i
put word 3 of the short name of filledField into j
put filledField into GDonnees[i,j]
--(do plenty of other things using i and j, but without using 
GDonnees any more)

... oh,oh! Light on! in my "transmat" routine and its nested repeat 
loops, the possible missing elements are automatically created. I 
guess transpose expect them to exist. It should be the case if the 
function swaps the contents, but not if it swaps the keys.
I read the transcript dictionnary again, it says "after swaping the 
order of keys", and in the comments, "the corresponding element in 
transpose(array) has its two parts switched one for the other", but 
farther away "the value (...) is moved (...)". A bit contradictory!

Note than a "really key swapping" transpose would be of more general 
use, allowing transposition of alphabetic keys as well. Meanwhile, 
I'll stick to my "transmat" routine to allow my students to transpose 
"semi-empty" matrices...

Still many thanks - Jacques
-- 
==========================================
Prof. Jacques Hausser
Institut d'Ecologie
Laboratoire de Zoologie et d'Ecologie animale
B?timent de biologie
CH - 1015 Lausanne
tel: + 41 21 692 41 62
fax: + 41 21 692 41 65
eMail: Jacques.Hausser at ie-zea.unil.ch
==========================================


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 17 05:42:00 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Oct 17 05:42:00 2002
Subject: Popup Menu - Show on mouse over 
Message-ID: <20021017103606.82278.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

Recently, Simon Forster asked:

> On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 12:31 PM, Jan
> Schenkel wrote:
> 
> >   on mouseEnter
> >     popup me
> >   end mouseEnter
>
> Jan
> 
> Many thanks. Next series of questions if I may:
>
> - How do I "hide" the popup on mouseLeave?
> 
> [snip]

Hi Simon,

As Sarah already answered your other questions, I'll
focus on your first question.

It seems the 'popup' command suppresses any and all
messages until a selection is made or the escape
button is pressed or the user clicks elsewhere.

Rather inconvenient, as you can't hie it on
mouseLeave. I remembered under HyperCard 1.2.5 one
could emulate menus, without an XFCN.

The trick? Show a field and handle all the appropriate
messages so that things are selected. Here's the
recipe for your own popup show/hide routine.

- Make a new field "myPopUpField" and put the lines of
your popup-menu in there.

- Resize it so everything fits snuggly.

- In the properties window, make sure the field has a
fixed line height, and fill it in (e.g. 12).

- Also make sure it has list-field behaviour.

- Now set its script to:

  on mouseMove pX, pY
    put the textHeight of me into tHeight
    put pY - (the top of me) + (item 1 of the \
      margins of me) into tY
    put (tY DIV tHeight) into tLine
    if tLine = 0 then put 1 into tLine
    do ("set the hilitedLines of me to" && quote & \
      tLine & quote)
  end mouseMove

  on mouseLeave
    hide me
  end mouseLeave

  on mouseUp
    -- check the hilitedLines prop and do things
    -- ...
    -- hide the field after you're done handling it
    hide me
  end mouseUp

- To make it all work, set the script of the button
where you want the user to mouse over, to:

  on mouseEnter
    show field "myPopUpField"
  end mouseEnter

  on mouseLeave
    if the mouseLoc is not within the rect of field \
      "myPopUpField" then hide field "myPopUpField"
  end mouseLeave

It's an old trick revamped for RunRev ; but it's a
great workaround for the popup command.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From rodmc at runrev.com  Thu Oct 17 06:53:01 2002
From: rodmc at runrev.com (Rod McCall)
Date: Thu Oct 17 06:53:01 2002
Subject: 1.5
In-Reply-To: <fc.004c4d190f467562004c4d190f467562.f467665@umit.maine.edu
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>

Hi Tim,

We have some exciting news about 1.5 shortly. Also we've put in so many new 
features it's no longer 1.5 it's 2.0.  Just keep your eyes on the lists and 
website and all will become clear shortly.

Kind regards,

Rod


At 14:45 16/10/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Does anyone know when version 1.5 is going to come out?  I saw it at 
>macworld this summer.  What is the hold up?  The XML stuff looks cool.

Rod McCall  <www.runrev.com>
Runtime Revolution Ltd
Revolution - The Solution for Software Development
tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165 fax: +44 (0) 131 718 4334



From Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu  Thu Oct 17 06:56:01 2002
From: Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu (Timothy Hart)
Date: Thu Oct 17 06:56:01 2002
Subject: 1.5
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <fc.004c4d190f497a03004c4d190f467562.f497a8b@umit.maine.edu>

use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes:
>Hi Tim,
>
>We have some exciting news about 1.5 shortly. Also we've put in so many new 
>features it's no longer 1.5 it's 2.0.  Just keep your eyes on the lists and 
>website and all will become clear shortly.
>
>Kind regards,
>
>Rod
Yeah.  I love you Scotts.  Makes me proud of my Scottish heritage.

-Tim









From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Oct 17 09:35:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Oct 17 09:35:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <000d01c2752a$e30420d0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <D110B8D6-DF89-11D6-8D20-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
 <000701c273a5$2b0dadb0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <a05100300b9d1f3c780dd@[216.229.107.168]>
 <008d01c27476$d88edf00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <a05100300b9d32bab76cb@[216.229.107.62]>
 <000d01c2752a$e30420d0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9d47727b45e@[216.229.107.148]>

>that was because the READ ME FIRST file was one that effectively
>"asked" the user to double-click it. If you have Rev files that don't need
>to be double-clicked (i.e. they're opened from within another program
>automatically), you can forego the extension. Personally, I feel that *all
>files* on *all platforms* should have an extension for multiplatform
>compatibility, but that's just my opinion. ;-)

Thanks for the additional info (& the URL for specialFolderPath codes), Ken.

You've made your position on file name extensions clear; but let me 
ask this:  Might it be a good idea to exclude extensions on files one 
does NOT want the user to open by double-clicking?

Other than the Read Me, which we both agree needs to be 
double-clickable, the other files that originally didn't include 
extensions were the various language translation files.  While they 
are text files, they are always ASCII text which is converted to ANSI 
when opened on Windows or Unix platforms, and the documentation says 
they should not be edited with a text editor in those environments. 
Am I better off removing the ".txt" extension from those files?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Oct 17 10:04:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Oct 17 10:04:01 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <p05111b01b9d374869e30@[192.168.123.3]>
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
 <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
 <003301c2745a$4a100e00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220800b9d1ed81244c@[10.0.1.2]>
 <a05100301b9d1f8b7aa02@[216.229.107.62]>
 <p05111b06b9d223790adf@[192.168.123.3]>
 <a05100303b9d32f845e3b@[216.229.107.62]>
 <p05111b01b9d374869e30@[192.168.123.3]>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9d47c5eedd3@[216.229.107.152]>

>To do things "properly", a commercial installer is probably the easiest way.

Hi Dave,

That's well and good if I am distributing a complete application; but 
when I'm designing a database library to be used & distributed by 
others, I have to provide a path to any db stack opened by the 
calling stack.  So far it seems specialFolderPath is the only way to 
accomplish this, and that means files must be forced into particular 
(though generically addressed) locations on every platform...

and that means an installer is needed on every platform and by every 
developer who uses my library.

It's not a solution I like very much; but what's the alternative?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Oct 17 10:34:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Oct 17 10:34:01 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
Message-ID: <a05100300b9d4869e2b84@[216.229.107.152]>

>So far it seems specialFolderPath is the only way to accomplish this

After further research, specialFolderPath is not supported on Unix 
platforms; so there appears to be no solution that works across all 
three platforms.

Comments anyone?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Oct 17 11:38:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu Oct 17 11:38:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b9d47727b45e@[216.229.107.148]>
Message-ID: <F60DA5DF-E1ED-11D6-AB1A-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 08:28 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> You've made your position on file name extensions clear; but let me ask 
> this:  Might it be a good idea to exclude extensions on files one does NOT 
> want the user to open by double-clicking?

Are there extensions that, by convention, are never associated?  (and not 
offensive)  Maybe one of those could be used.  Or some arbitrary extension.
   As in:

private_data.rob

Dar Scott



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct 17 12:08:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct 17 12:08:00 2002
Subject: Rev, ODBC on OS X?
Message-ID: <26F84AA5-E1F2-11D6-A09B-000393529642@mindlube.com>

The SBE edition of Rev. supports ODBC, correct?

Does it support ODBC on OS X too? OS X 10.2 comes with the iODBC driver 
manager, which I guess is diffent than the one that shipped with MacOS 
v <= 9 but I've never used ODBC on a Mac, only on Windows.

A rev stack using ODBC could make for some interesting cross-platform 
business applications.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct 17 12:12:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct 17 12:12:00 2002
Subject: A good project for Rev?
In-Reply-To: <200210130605.g9D65Bb01651@lopez.interisland.net>
Message-ID: <ACD279B2-E1F2-11D6-A09B-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 12:06  AM, pixelbird at interisland.net 
wrote:

> ...

> This stuff will be repleat with photos, area maps, notes and
> suggestions, historical documentation (dates and kinds of
> fertilizer applications to specific areas, for example).
>
> What I'll need to do is deal with stuff in my landscape
> software, then pass pertinent info to their Rev app to keep
> it updated. That could be done online, I think. No deep dark
> secrets going on.
>
> That's probably way more detail than you wanted to see, but
> do you think it would make a good Rev project?

Yes, I think this is a great fir for a Rev app. The amount of 
programming sounds minimal-- mostly "go next card" and an occasional 
"get URL ..." to fetch some updated content.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct 17 12:21:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct 17 12:21:00 2002
Subject: 1.5
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <05F1912D-E1F4-11D6-A09B-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 05:47  AM, Rod McCall wrote:

> Hi Tim,
>
> We have some exciting news about 1.5 shortly. Also we've put in so 
> many new features it's no longer 1.5 it's 2.0.  Just keep your eyes on 
> the lists and website and all will become clear shortly.

Talk about suspense! What does "shortly" mean in your neck of the 
woods? Like today?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 17 12:39:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct 17 12:39:01 2002
Subject: Portable file names
References: <D110B8D6-DF89-11D6-8D20-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> <000701c273a5$2b0dadb0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom> <a05100300b9d1f3c780dd@[216.229.107.168]> <008d01c27476$d88edf00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom> <a05100300b9d32bab76cb@[216.229.107.62]> <000d01c2752a$e30420d0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom> <a05100300b9d47727b45e@[216.229.107.148]>
Message-ID: <021c01c27602$aaf880e0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Rob,

> You've made your position on file name extensions clear; but let me
> ask this:  Might it be a good idea to exclude extensions on files one
> does NOT want the user to open by double-clicking?

Personally I don't think it's a good idea; IMHO it doesn't "say" anything
about what *might* be in the file, so it causes the curious to probe
further, and makes the others a bit skeptical about why the file is there in
the first place. That said, if you just add an arbitrary extension that you
aren't supporting (like Dar provided: "private_data.rob"), you never know if
there's some other app out there using that extension, and thus it may look
like it belongs to another program when it really doesn't.

My personal opinion is that all files that are distributed with a program
should have file extensions that are registered to the program. If you
double-click on that is just a data holder and is not a "document", the
program should still launch and then display a dialog saying something like:
"Sorry, but this file is not editable." with an "Quit" button. This gets
around both problems of (a) not having an extension at all and (b) providing
one you're not trapping yourself.

Just my $0.02,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/





From rodmc at runrev.com  Thu Oct 17 12:39:27 2002
From: rodmc at runrev.com (Rod McCall)
Date: Thu Oct 17 12:39:27 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <05F1912D-E1F4-11D6-A09B-000393529642@mindlube.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>

At 11:15 17/10/2002 -0600, you wrote:

>On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 05:47  AM, Rod McCall wrote:
>
>>Hi Tim,
>>
>>We have some exciting news about 1.5 shortly. Also we've put in so many 
>>new features it's no longer 1.5 it's 2.0.  Just keep your eyes on the 
>>lists and website and all will become clear shortly.
>
>Talk about suspense! What does "shortly" mean in your neck of the woods? 
>Like today?

Sadly not today but not believe me its not far off... More information when 
it's available. Just watch our website, lists and (hopefully) the media for 
more news. The countdown has started :-)

As regards whether it's tomorrow, next week or later all I will say is that 
"You might think that, you might very well think that, but I couldn't 
possibly comment." (quote from mid 90's British TV political drama).

Anyway I'm sure everyone will like 2.0 when they see it.

Kind regards,

Rod

Rod McCall  <www.runrev.com>
Runtime Revolution Ltd
Revolution - The Solution for Software Development
tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165 fax: +44 (0) 131 718 4334



From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Oct 17 13:25:02 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Oct 17 13:25:02 2002
Subject: 1.5
In-Reply-To: <05F1912D-E1F4-11D6-A09B-000393529642@mindlube.com>
References: <05F1912D-E1F4-11D6-A09B-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9d4a79cbad7@[216.229.107.214]>

>Talk about suspense! What does "shortly" mean in your neck of the 
>woods? Like today?

Alex, el al:

Filter the List email for "next month", and I believe you will find a 
recent message from Kevin.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Oct 17 13:25:40 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Oct 17 13:25:40 2002
Subject: get specialFolderpath(26)
In-Reply-To: <a05100301b9d47c5eedd3@[216.229.107.152]>
References: <F7CF69E4-DFC5-11D6-B0C6-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
 <000601c273ef$f5b59010$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220801b9d174bdb76d@[10.0.1.2]>
 <003301c2745a$4a100e00$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
 <v04220800b9d1ed81244c@[10.0.1.2]>
 <a05100301b9d1f8b7aa02@[216.229.107.62]>
 <p05111b06b9d223790adf@[192.168.123.3]>
 <a05100303b9d32f845e3b@[216.229.107.62]>
 <p05111b01b9d374869e30@[192.168.123.3]>
 <a05100301b9d47c5eedd3@[216.229.107.152]>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9d4a6797689@[216.229.107.214]>

>when I'm designing a database library to be used & distributed by 
>others, I have to provide a path to any db stack opened by the 
>calling stack.  So far it seems specialFolderPath is the only way to 
>accomplish this, and that means files must be forced into particular 
>(though generically addressed) locations on every platform...
>
>and that means an installer is needed on every platform and by every 
>developer who uses my library.
>
>It's not a solution I like very much; but what's the alternative?

Hi All,

Having been underwhelmed with suggestions, here is the approach I'm evaluating:

* Maintain the full path name to the SDB database in the mainstack's 
sdbFile  property as in my original design

* Supplement the openSDBFile handler with logic to check (1st) the 
mainstack's folder and (2nd) specialFolderPath("Documents") for the 
database before requiring the user to locate or create it.

I assume specialFolderPath("Documents") returns empty for both Mac OS 
9 & X, as well as all Unix platforms; so the second step only deals 
with Windows permission issues.  Still, the first check should 
resolve the issues related to moving or renaming a folder containing 
an app & db on all platforms, no?

I plan to wait a day or so before scripting the changes; so you have 
about 24 hours to further educate me or blow holes in my design. 
:{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Oct 17 13:31:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Oct 17 13:31:01 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <a05100303b9d4b004b47d@[216.229.107.161]>

>"You might think that, you might very well think that, but I 
>couldn't possibly comment." (quote from mid 90's British TV 
>political drama).

Hi Rod,

PBS presented "House of Cards" in the US; so at least some Yanks know 
the quote.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu  Thu Oct 17 13:46:00 2002
From: Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu (Timothy Hart)
Date: Thu Oct 17 13:46:00 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <fc.004c4d190f4b2d0d3b9aca005b86b5c8.f4b2d4b@umit.maine.edu>

use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes:
>Anyway I'm sure everyone will like 2.0 when they see it.

Can you tell us the new features?
-Tim









From BSpurgeon at iht.com  Thu Oct 17 15:18:01 2002
From: BSpurgeon at iht.com (BSpurgeon at iht.com)
Date: Thu Oct 17 15:18:01 2002
Subject: strange behaviour of a standalone script
Message-ID: <OFBB9F2AD2.ABD4DA7E-ON41256C55.006E4EFD@domino.iht.com>

I've written a very simple sort of log book type stack consisting of
identical log cards throughout, but a first card that lists what new cards
have been created -- giving their name, date, who made them, etc.  This
first card has a format button that gathers the information from all the
cards and lists the information on a single line in an index field on the
first card.

Here's the problem.  It worked fine until I made the stack into a
standalone file attached to a splash-screen stack, as per recent
discussions on this list for standalones.  Now, although the stack saves
new cards -- yes, I come from a HyperCard background -- this simple
formatting button fails to work the way it was written to work and the way
it works when the stack is not a standalone.

Any ideas why a simple script might not like being in a standalone
environment, although the cards themselves get saved?

Brad Spurgeon



From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Oct 17 15:30:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu Oct 17 15:30:01 2002
Subject: strange behaviour of a standalone script
In-Reply-To: <OFBB9F2AD2.ABD4DA7E-ON41256C55.006E4EFD@domino.iht.com>
Message-ID: <B9D494B9.158F8%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/17/02 4:12 PM, "BSpurgeon at iht.com" <BSpurgeon at iht.com> wrote:

> Here's the problem.  It worked fine until I made the stack into a
> standalone file attached to a splash-screen stack, as per recent
> discussions on this list for standalones.  Now, although the stack saves
> new cards -- yes, I come from a HyperCard background -- this simple
> formatting button fails to work the way it was written to work and the way
> it works when the stack is not a standalone.
> 
> Any ideas why a simple script might not like being in a standalone
> environment, although the cards themselves get saved?


Hmm. Without posting any of the script to review, it would be hard to
provide a concrete reasoning for why it is failing.

Perhaps you could tell us just what is contained in the troublesome button
script?

It sounds as though perhaps the script is looking for those newly created
cards in some location that they don't exist?
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From katir at hindu.org  Thu Oct 17 16:23:01 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu Oct 17 16:23:01 2002
Subject: ftp download error "not a plain file"
In-Reply-To: <p05111b00b9d41ae0ffa9@[192.168.123.3]>
Message-ID: <F7BDBE4D-E215-11D6-8262-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

Aloha, Dave,

OK, I checked permissions:

  rwx-rw -r

So, anyone can read the file.

  What's more... I can open an FTP client,
(I am using oXigen now on OSX ... really fast)

Enter

the same HOST, USER, PASS and PATH and download the file, no problem.

But, if I try that in Rev... I get the same message:

>> error  550 /Public/Sheela/New-Not Yet
>> Posted/9-19-02_Mauritius_Trip_Talks.txt: not a plain file.

so at this point it would definitely appear to be a libURL problem... 
"but wait... there's more!"

test: If I change the server to our ISP's host server in Honolulu 
(SPARC Solaris) and run the same scripts... it works... the same script 
which is failing to fetch a file from our server in the other room over 
the LAN (OSXServe running on a G4 with FTP enabled) will download a 
file from Honolulu... both  files are simple text files, both have the 
same permissions.

So an FTP client can download from our server but libURL can't. Other 
operations... get directory listings, upload, RNFR  RNTO etc. all work 
fine.

Can I do anything to log events to give you a more detailed look into 
exactly what is failing?

Thanks for your cheerful help!


On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 09:49  PM, Dave Cragg wrote:

> Sivakatirswami wrote:
>> I have this script in a list field which has file names previously
>> fetched using NLST
>>
>> on mouseup
>>   put the clicktext into jai
>>   put "ftp://katir:myPass at our.kauai.server.org/Public/Sheela/New-Not
>> Yet Posted/" & jai into tURL
>>   put tURL ; wait 1 seconds
>>   get url  tURL
>>   put it
>>   wait 1 second
>>   put the result
>>
>> end mouseup
>>
>> "it" is empty and result:
>>
>> error  550 /Public/Sheela/New-Not Yet
>> Posted/9-19-02_Mauritius_Trip_Talks.txt: not a plain file.
>>
>> now, these files are files that are generated and uploaded by a Rev
>> app I created which is in use by someone in Chennai (Madras)
>> India... and they definitely *are* plain text files... ??
>
> 550 means the action wasn't taken for some reason. "not a plain file" 
> is a generic message sent by a some servers, and seems to cover a 
> variety of issues. I'd check the permissions on the file and see if 
> everyone has read permission. Use LIST instead of NLST to get a 
> listing with all the permission details.
>
> Cheers
> Dave



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct 17 17:45:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct 17 17:45:01 2002
Subject: stack trace vs. pending messages, etc.
Message-ID: <3CD50588-E221-11D6-8D6A-000393529642@mindlube.com>

Since the debugger doesn't show a stack trace, does anyone have Rev 
code to print the stack trace? When debugging I like to see how I 
arrived at that point, without necessarily stepping through.

Also, what do people use the pending messages dialog for? It seems like 
it's complementary to the debugger, but I don't get the usage & it's 
always empty when I look at it.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From jeanne at runrev.com  Thu Oct 17 18:29:00 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu Oct 17 18:29:00 2002
Subject: stack trace vs. pending messages, etc.
In-Reply-To: <3CD50588-E221-11D6-8D6A-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <v03130322b9d4f650214c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:39 PM -0700 10/17/2002, Alex Rice wrote:
>Also, what do people use the pending messages dialog for? It seems like
>it's complementary to the debugger, but I don't get the usage & it's
>always empty when I look at it.

The pending messages shows the queue of messages that have been sent with a
time delay by the send command. Check out "send", "pendingMessages", and
"cancel" in the Transcript Dictionary for more info. (There will also be
some script examples in the upcoming version that show how this feature is
used in more detail.)

The Rev development environnment uses this quite a bit, but it's not a
debugging tool per se.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct 17 21:34:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct 17 21:34:01 2002
Subject: stack trace vs. pending messages, etc.
In-Reply-To: <v03130322b9d4f650214c@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <31570AD3-E241-11D6-9B40-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 05:22  PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
> The pending messages shows the queue of messages that have been sent 
> with a
> time delay by the send command. Check out "send", "pendingMessages", 
> and
> "cancel" in the Transcript Dictionary for more info. (There will also 
> be
> some script examples in the upcoming version that show how this 
> feature is
> used in more detail.)
>
> The Rev development environnment uses this quite a bit, but it's not a
> debugging tool per se.

Thanks for the description.

What about a stack trace? Does Revolution have anything like that? It 
it possible to generate a stack trace from transcript?


Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From trevor at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Oct 17 23:30:01 2002
From: trevor at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu Oct 17 23:30:01 2002
Subject: Problems accessing Valentina in Distributions on Jaguar
In-Reply-To: <31570AD3-E241-11D6-9B40-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <5B15A2A5-E251-11D6-BB83-00039376023C@mangomultimedia.com>

Hello list,

Does anybody have a Distribution Build running successfully on Jaguar 
that incorporates Valentina?  I ask because I have a project that was 
working on OS X.1.5 without any problems.  I have reports from a tester 
that the database portions do not work with the same build running on 
Jaguar.

I just upgraded to Jaguar a few days ago and I get the  error "Error: 
Wrong expression Connection Error:" when first loading up the project 
in Revolution but the database calls will still function.  This did not 
occur under OS X.1.5.  However when I build a distribution and run it 
on Jaguar none of the database calls are successful.

Just wondering if anyone else is having problems or if I unknowing did 
something stupid in my code.

Thanks,

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com



From jeanne at runrev.com  Fri Oct 18 00:21:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri Oct 18 00:21:01 2002
Subject: stack trace vs. pending messages, etc.
In-Reply-To: <31570AD3-E241-11D6-9B40-000393529642@mindlube.com>
References: <v03130322b9d4f650214c@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <v03130323b9d532e75dc6@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:27 PM -0700 10/17/2002, Alex Rice wrote:
>What about a stack trace? Does Revolution have anything like that? It
>it possible to generate a stack trace from transcript?

Not yet (short of putting handlers everywhere in the message path to record
where a message has been). However, the upcoming version will have a much
improved debugger, and I believe you'll be able to get a stack trace out of
it.

You can use the target function to find out which object was the first to
receive the message, and use the owner property to trace the normal message
path up from that object. So you can sort of do this in Transcript already
- but this won't account for unusual situations where the dynamic path is
in use, where you use send to transfer a message around, etc.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Fri Oct 18 00:46:01 2002
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah)
Date: Fri Oct 18 00:46:01 2002
Subject: Problems accessing Valentina in Distributions on Jaguar
In-Reply-To: <a05111a20b9d53e57c156@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <205ADD40-E25C-11D6-B78D-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Could this be due to an error in a file path? I have never used 
Valentina so I don't know if this is how it works. I found that file 
paths get reported differently on 10.1.5 and 10.2, specifically to do 
with having a "/" at the end and beginning. Someone else reported that 
seeing "/Volume/" added to the beginning although I haven't seen that.

In case this is of any use to you, here is what I get in response to 
answer folder: "/Sarah HD/Users/sarah/Desktop"
and answer file: "/Sarah HD/Users/sarah/Documents/tests.rev"

This is under OS X 10.2.1

Cheers,
Sarah

On Friday, October 18, 2002, at 02:28  pm, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> Does anybody have a Distribution Build running successfully on Jaguar 
> that incorporates Valentina?  I ask because I have a project that was 
> working on OS X.1.5 without any problems.  I have reports from a 
> tester that the database portions do not work with the same build 
> running on Jaguar.
>
> I just upgraded to Jaguar a few days ago and I get the  error "Error: 
> Wrong expression Connection Error:" when first loading up the project 
> in Revolution but the database calls will still function.  This did 
> not occur under OS X.1.5.  However when I build a distribution and run 
> it on Jaguar none of the database calls are successful.
>
> Just wondering if anyone else is having problems or if I unknowing did 
> something stupid in my code.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From dan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 18 00:46:25 2002
From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri Oct 18 00:46:25 2002
Subject: Problems accessing Valentina in Distributions on Jaguar
Message-ID: <a05200a09b9d546d8b282@[63.205.23.218]>

At 11:32 PM -0400 10/17/02, Tevor DeVore wrote:
>I have a project that was
>working on OS X.1.5 without any problems.  I have reports from a tester
>that the database portions do not work with the same build running on
>Jaguar.

I can't say for sure on this but I *can* tell you this: Jaguar was 
not well represented by Apple. IT is not an OS X upgrade. It is an 
entirely new OS kernel. It has broken LOTS of apps, including 
Microsoft Word:X (for which MS just released a patch today that fixes 
things). Jaguar is *very* problematic for a lot of folks I know.

So I'm not surprised if there are problems here and I suspect they 
are problems with Jaguar, not with Rev or Valentina.
-- 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
How smart do you work? What's your TQ (Time Quotient)?
Find out free in 2 minutes at http://www.thinktq.com/Results2002
Free one-year training course in your email box - $120 value
Get an insightful book written and published EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOU


From mazzapaolo at libero.it  Fri Oct 18 03:46:01 2002
From: mazzapaolo at libero.it (paolo mazza)
Date: Fri Oct 18 03:46:01 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <200210180333.XAA21478@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9D59943.41EE%mazzapaolo@libero.it>

I wish Rev 2.0 will add some feauters for manipulating images  in our
stacks. 
In particular: 
- select tool for irregular shapes (lazo)
- trim images with transparent background
- blend images together
- import images directly to the image library of the stack
- paint  animated gif
- export animated gif
- a brand new paint palette (similar to the apple-works 6 paint palette)

What do you think about it?

Ciao, Paolo

> From: use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:33:42 -0400
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #781 - 16 msgs
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:33:48 +0100
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> From: Rod McCall <rodmc at runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: 1.5 (now 2.0)
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> 
> At 11:15 17/10/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> 
>> On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 05:47  AM, Rod McCall wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Tim,
>>> 
>>> We have some exciting news about 1.5 shortly. Also we've put in so many
>>> new features it's no longer 1.5 it's 2.0.  Just keep your eyes on the
>>> lists and website and all will become clear shortly.
>> 
>> Talk about suspense! What does "shortly" mean in your neck of the woods?
>> Like today?
> 
> Sadly not today but not believe me its not far off... More information when
> it's available. Just watch our website, lists and (hopefully) the media for
> more news. The countdown has started :-)
> 
> As regards whether it's tomorrow, next week or later all I will say is that
> "You might think that, you might very well think that, but I couldn't
> possibly comment." (quote from mid 90's British TV political drama).
> 
> Anyway I'm sure everyone will like 2.0 when they see it.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Rod
> 
> Rod McCall  <www.runrev.com>
> Runtime Revolution Ltd
> Revolution - The Solution for Software Development
> tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165 fax: +44 (0) 131 718 4334



From graggm at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 18 09:58:01 2002
From: graggm at hotmail.com (M Gragg)
Date: Fri Oct 18 09:58:01 2002
Subject: Executable Net Feasability
Message-ID: <F74GI6GfiFqL5HmCClD000032a3@hotmail.com>

I am not sure if Revolution is the answer to my application scenario,
but I'd like to solicit some feedback to help determine if Rev is a
viable solution platform.

I want to create an "Executable Internet" scenario that has the
following components (among others):

1: An administrator sets up a list of users/subscribers by Name and
probably email addresses.

2: This administrator creates surveys or questionnaires that he/she 
transmits daily to this list of subscribers. Within these surveys, there 
might be embedded rich media (QuickTime, audio/video, etc)

3: The user logs on to his/her machine, launches an application stack
and notices an alert that new survey/questionnaire has been sent to them

4: User completes the questionnaire (could be multiple choice,
true-false questions)

5: User submits completed questionnaire back to administrator, who has
the ability to "grade" the questionnaire automatically by way of an
answer key. Administrator sends results with comments back to users.

6: Administrator has ability to view performance results of list users
over time

7: Administrator can participate in online chat application to discuss
questionnaires with users.

I'd really appreciate hearing comments on the feasibility of Revolution
handling this.

Thanks,
Matt G.






_________________________________________________________________
Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.? Try MSN! 
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp



From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Oct 18 10:24:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Oct 18 10:24:01 2002
Subject: Executable Net Feasability
In-Reply-To: <F74GI6GfiFqL5HmCClD000032a3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <DBA4A010-E2AC-11D6-A45B-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Friday, October 18, 2002, at 08:52  AM, M Gragg wrote:

>
> I'd really appreciate hearing comments on the feasibility of Revolution
> handling this.

Sounds feasable and interesting and good match for Rev. You might want 
to read the recent thread "Startkit limitations for stacks already 
containing long scripts" which discusses ways to get around the start 
kit limitations by building a "player" app for Rev stacks. This would 
make sense for you because you would not want to email or transmit a 
2MB standalone every time a new survey came out.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From rodmc at runrev.com  Fri Oct 18 11:29:01 2002
From: rodmc at runrev.com (Rod McCall)
Date: Fri Oct 18 11:29:01 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <a05100303b9d4b004b47d@[216.229.107.161]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021018171930.017bade8@mail.spamcop.net>


At 11:22 17/10/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>>"You might think that, you might very well think that, but I couldn't 
>>possibly comment." (quote from mid 90's British TV political drama).
>
>Hi Rod,
>
>PBS presented "House of Cards" in the US; so at least some Yanks know the 
>quote.

Excellent, I often wondered if it had made it across the pond. I think its 
a classic quote which can be used for almost any occasion! Also it's my 
understanding that the person who wrote the original book worked under the 
Thatcher government, kind of makes me wonder what exactly went on during 
that era.

The final release of Rev is pencilled in for next month but we do have some 
news in the interim which will go out soon.

Kind regards,

Rod


Rod McCall  <www.runrev.com>
Runtime Revolution Ltd
Revolution - The Solution for Software Development
tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165 fax: +44 (0) 131 718 4334



From trevor at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Oct 18 11:32:01 2002
From: trevor at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri Oct 18 11:32:01 2002
Subject: Problems accessing Valentina in Distributions on Jaguar
In-Reply-To: <205ADD40-E25C-11D6-B78D-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <477D672A-E2B6-11D6-A272-00039376023C@mangomultimedia.com>

On Friday, October 18, 2002, at 01:40  AM, Sarah wrote:

> Could this be due to an error in a file path? I have never used 
> Valentina so I don't know if this is how it works. I found that file 
> paths get reported differently on 10.1.5 and 10.2, specifically to do 
> with having a "/" at the end and beginning. Someone else reported that 
> seeing "/Volume/" added to the beginning although I haven't seen that.

Thanks for the hint Sarah.  I just checked this again and the path to 
the database is correct so I don't think that is the problem.

Oddly enough after altering my code only enough to try and clarify and 
pinpoint where the error messages were coming from I stopped receiving 
error messages and the database stuff started working.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com



From rodmc at runrev.com  Fri Oct 18 12:06:00 2002
From: rodmc at runrev.com (Rod McCall)
Date: Fri Oct 18 12:06:00 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <fc.004c4d190f4b2d0d3b9aca005b86b5c8.f4b2d4b@umit.maine.edu
 >
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021018172716.027134c0@mail.spamcop.net>

At 14:40 17/10/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes:
> >Anyway I'm sure everyone will like 2.0 when they see it.
>
>Can you tell us the new features?

At this stage I can only point to our previous press release on the 1.5 
alpha (now replaced by 2.0) which outlines *some* of the new features, the 
URL is:

<http://www.runrev.com/company/pressreleases/8.html>

Here is a summary of the new features listed in that release:

*XML library for creating and parsing XML documents
*Spreadsheet-format text fields
*New sound-recording architecture
*MIDI music file creation and playing
*Windows of any size and shape
*Fully Perl-compatible regular expressions
*Transcript Cookbook of useful script routines

More news on the exact feature set of 2.0 will appear very soon, so if you 
can hold your breath for a little while longer I am sure all will become clear!


Kind regards,

Rod

Rod McCall  <www.runrev.com>
Runtime Revolution Ltd
Revolution - The Solution for Software Development
tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165 fax: +44 (0) 131 718 4334



From Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu  Fri Oct 18 12:09:00 2002
From: Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu (Timothy Hart)
Date: Fri Oct 18 12:09:00 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021018172716.027134c0@mail.spamcop.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021018172716.027134c0@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <fc.004c4d190f4f536f3b9aca005b86b5c8.f4f5375@umit.maine.edu>

use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes:
>*Transcript Cookbook of useful script routines
Can you tell us more about this?

-Tim









From jeanne at runrev.com  Fri Oct 18 14:00:00 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri Oct 18 14:00:00 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <fc.004c4d190f4f536f3b9aca005b86b5c8.f4f5375@umit.maine.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021018172716.027134c0@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021018172716.027134c0@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <v0313032cb9d60748d063@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:03 AM -0700 10/18/2002, Timothy Hart wrote:
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes:
>>*Transcript Cookbook of useful script routines
>Can you tell us more about this?

It's a new section of the documentation. Each topic in the cookbook will
consist of a code segment (usually one handler) that solves a specific
problem, and a discussion of the techniques used in the example code. The
examples range in complexity from beginning to advanced. It's intended both
to provide useful code for various common tasks, and to illustrate how to
use language features in a more extended way than the one-line examples in
the Transcript Dictionary.

We're still working on this and finalizing the list, but the entries will
include things like handling selection of choices from a Text menu,
removing comments from a script, saving a backup, centering a stack window
on the screen, limiting the number of characters in a field, listing the
unique words in a string, truncating text to a pixel width, and many more.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Oct 18 14:11:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri Oct 18 14:11:01 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0) Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <v0313032cb9d60748d063@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <B9D5D3BF.1595C%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/18/02 2:53 PM, "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <jeanne at runrev.com> wrote:

> We're still working on this and finalizing the list, but the entries will
> include things like handling selection of choices from a Text menu,
> removing comments from a script, saving a backup, centering a stack window
> on the screen, limiting the number of characters in a field, listing the
> unique words in a string, truncating text to a pixel width, and many more.

Jeanne, as you know, I've advocated a Rev cookbook for a long time. You guys
should consider a web form or something to allow folks to submit potential
cookbook topic recipes. There are simply a ton of handlers which could be
examined this way. Hopefully, the cookbook will offer cut-and-paste much
like the rest of the documentation, which would make it almost like a
library of usable behaviors at the same time as a training tool.

Just a thought.
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net





From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Oct 18 15:13:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Oct 18 15:13:00 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021018172716.027134c0@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <3FCC44C4-E2D5-11D6-A45B-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Friday, October 18, 2002, at 10:59  AM, Rod McCall wrote:

> Here is a summary of the new features listed in that release:
>
> *XML library for creating and parsing XML documents
> *Spreadsheet-format text fields
> *New sound-recording architecture
> *MIDI music file creation and playing
> *Windows of any size and shape
> *Fully Perl-compatible regular expressions
> *Transcript Cookbook of useful script routines
>
> More news on the exact feature set of 2.0 will appear very soon, so if 
> you can hold your breath for a little while longer I am sure all will 
> become clear!
>

Wow! This is a freaking awesome set of features. Keep up the excellent 
work.



Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Oct 18 17:56:00 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri Oct 18 17:56:00 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021018171930.017bade8@mail.spamcop.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021018171930.017bade8@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9d63da671b4@[216.229.107.161]>

>>PBS presented "House of Cards" in the US; so at least some Yanks 
>>know the quote.
>
>Excellent, I often wondered if it had made it across the pond.

Yes indeed, Rod, F. U.'s rise & fall was followed by many here.

Thanks again to Public Broadcasting, we also had a chance to see the 
real "She Devil", which was so NOT what the Roseanne & Meryl version 
was all about.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From BradAllen at mac.com  Fri Oct 18 18:20:01 2002
From: BradAllen at mac.com (Brad Allen)
Date: Fri Oct 18 18:20:01 2002
Subject: image within a graphic?
Message-ID: <a05111b02b9d6461f76d0@[65.96.59.41]>

Is there a way to place an image "inside" a graphic, similar to the 
way a button can hold an image by setting the icon property? My goal 
is to display a circular picture. I tried all the different ink 
settings for an image containing a circular picture, but never 
achieved the desired results. The ink setting called "Transparency" 
is advertised to make all the white space of the image transparent, 
but it didn't work quite right, and has the drawback of being limited 
to Mac OS systems.

My image was created in Photoshop and saved as a transparent GIF.

Thanks!


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 18 18:44:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri Oct 18 18:44:01 2002
Subject: image within a graphic?
References: <a05111b02b9d6461f76d0@[65.96.59.41]>
Message-ID: <004201c276fe$d06f21b0$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Brad,

If you have a transparent GIF, you should be able to just import it and it
will display with its transparency already on... I don't understand - did
this not work for you? And if so, what happened?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Allen" <BradAllen at mac.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 6:14 PM
Subject: image within a graphic?


>
> Is there a way to place an image "inside" a graphic, similar to the
> way a button can hold an image by setting the icon property? My goal
> is to display a circular picture. I tried all the different ink
> settings for an image containing a circular picture, but never
> achieved the desired results. The ink setting called "Transparency"
> is advertised to make all the white space of the image transparent,
> but it didn't work quite right, and has the drawback of being limited
> to Mac OS systems.
>
> My image was created in Photoshop and saved as a transparent GIF.
>
> Thanks!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From macstacks at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 18 20:09:01 2002
From: macstacks at earthlink.net (Bruce A. Pokras)
Date: Fri Oct 18 20:09:01 2002
Subject: Standalone crashes when Mac Applications menu clicked
Message-ID: <a05010400b9d65e374131@[192.168.1.100]>

Is there any reason why a standalone always crashes when I try to 
bring down the Applications menu to switch to another application or 
to the Finder? I have no problem switching using Tilery. I am running 
OS 9.1 on a Summer 2000 iMac DV-SE, 500 MHz having 128 Mb RAM.

There are two stacks open when the crash occurs. One is in the 
Standalone, and the other is a stack that the Standalone opens at 
startup.

Regards,

Bruce Pokras


From macstacks at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 18 20:53:01 2002
From: macstacks at earthlink.net (Bruce A. Pokras)
Date: Fri Oct 18 20:53:01 2002
Subject: More info: Standalone crashes when Mac Applications menu clicked
Message-ID: <a05010400b9d66951dcc5@[192.168.1.100]>

The crash occurs with a Type 2 error, and it occurs when I click on 
the "Help" menu, also. So it is not just the Applications menu.

Regards,

Bruce Pokras

>
>Is there any reason why a standalone always crashes when I try to 
>bring down the Applications menu to switch to another application or 
>to the Finder? I have no problem switching using Tilery. I am 
>running OS 9.1 on a Summer 2000 iMac DV-SE, 500 MHz having 128 Mb 
>RAM.
>
>There are two stacks open when the crash occurs. One is in the 
>Standalone, and the other is a stack that the Standalone opens at 
>startup.
>
>Regards,
>
>Bruce Pokras
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Oct 18 20:59:00 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri Oct 18 20:59:00 2002
Subject: More info: Standalone crashes when Mac Applications menu
	clicked
In-Reply-To: <a05010400b9d66951dcc5@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <B9D63364.1597F%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/18/02 9:45 PM, "Bruce A. Pokras" <macstacks at earthlink.net> wrote:

> The crash occurs with a Type 2 error, and it occurs when I click on
> the "Help" menu, also. So it is not just the Applications menu.

How much memory assigned to your standalone? Type 2 is usually out of
memory...


-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Oct 18 21:04:01 2002
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Fri Oct 18 21:04:01 2002
Subject: image within a graphic?
In-Reply-To: <a05111b02b9d6461f76d0@[65.96.59.41]>
Message-ID: <B9D60D28.5E74%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 10/18/02 4:14 PM, Brad Allen at BradAllen at mac.com wrote:

> 
> Is there a way to place an image "inside" a graphic, similar to the
> way a button can hold an image by setting the icon property? My goal
> is to display a circular picture. I tried all the different ink
> settings for an image containing a circular picture, but never
> achieved the desired results. The ink setting called "Transparency"
> is advertised to make all the white space of the image transparent,
> but it didn't work quite right, and has the drawback of being limited
> to Mac OS systems.
> 
> My image was created in Photoshop and saved as a transparent GIF.
----------
I'm not exactly sure, but it reads that you want to end up with a circular
picture, but that somehow the area beyond it's circular border is not
behaving the way you want. If this is true, perhaps you can mask it. Make
your graphic to match the background, then cut out a circle to match your
image, and lay it over the image.

Will that work?

HTH,
Ken N.



From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Oct 18 22:20:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri Oct 18 22:20:01 2002
Subject: shell() questions
Message-ID: <E3F81048-E310-11D6-A45B-000393529642@mindlube.com>

I'm using shell() to run the CLIPS expert system software. On Mac OS X 
I am using Dar Scott's applescript to run a shell command. On Windows2K 
the shell() command works, but the DOS window pops up for the duration 
of the shell process. How can this be hidden?

On Windows 2000 the shellCommand is "cmd.exe" by default. Maybe it 
takes some command line options? How does one find that out on Windows?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Fri Oct 18 22:40:01 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri Oct 18 22:40:01 2002
Subject: shell() questions
In-Reply-To: <E3F81048-E310-11D6-A45B-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEIOCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

set the hideConsoleWindows to true

Cheers

Monte

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Alex Rice
> Sent: Saturday, 19 October 2002 12:45 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: shell() questions
> 
> 
> I'm using shell() to run the CLIPS expert system software. On Mac OS X 
> I am using Dar Scott's applescript to run a shell command. On Windows2K 
> the shell() command works, but the DOS window pops up for the duration 
> of the shell process. How can this be hidden?
> 
> On Windows 2000 the shellCommand is "cmd.exe" by default. Maybe it 
> takes some command line options? How does one find that out on Windows?
> 
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> alrice at swcp.com
> alex_rice at arc.to
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 18 22:58:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri Oct 18 22:58:01 2002
Subject: shell() questions
References: <E3F81048-E310-11D6-A45B-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c27722$3a8bd070$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Alex,

Do this before you execute your shell command:

  set the hideConsoleWindows to true

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alex Rice" <alex at mindlube.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 10:14 PM
Subject: shell() questions


> I'm using shell() to run the CLIPS expert system software. On Mac OS X 
> I am using Dar Scott's applescript to run a shell command. On Windows2K 
> the shell() command works, but the DOS window pops up for the duration 
> of the shell process. How can this be hidden?
> 
> On Windows 2000 the shellCommand is "cmd.exe" by default. Maybe it 
> takes some command line options? How does one find that out on Windows?
> 
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> alrice at swcp.com
> alex_rice at arc.to
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Oct 18 23:59:00 2002
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Fri Oct 18 23:59:00 2002
Subject: More info: Standalone crashes when Mac Applications menu
	clicked
In-Reply-To: <B9D63364.1597F%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <B9D6361B.5E7E%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 10/18/02 6:53 PM, Troy Rollins at troy at rpsystems.net wrote:

> On 10/18/02 9:45 PM, "Bruce A. Pokras" <macstacks at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> The crash occurs with a Type 2 error, and it occurs when I click on
>> the "Help" menu, also. So it is not just the Applications menu.
> 
> How much memory assigned to your standalone? Type 2 is usually out of
> memory...
----------
Actually, I believe the error occurs when a memory increment of 16 bits (one
word) or 32 bits (one long word) tries to access an odd numbered address. I
know this to be true of Motorola 68000 processers.

What type of processer does the Mac with the problem have?

HTH,
Ken N.






From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Oct 19 00:21:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat Oct 19 00:21:01 2002
Subject: More info: Standalone crashes when Mac Applications menu
	clicked
In-Reply-To: <B9D6361B.5E7E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <B9D66299.1598C%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/19/02 1:05 AM, "Ken Norris (dialup)" <pixelbird at interisland.net>
wrote:

> Actually, I believe the error occurs when a memory increment of 16 bits (one
> word) or 32 bits (one long word) tries to access an odd numbered address. I
> know this to be true of Motorola 68000 processers.
> 
> What type of processer does the Mac with the problem have?


Bruce mentioned that it was an iMac DV SE 500, which would be a G3.


-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From alex_rice at arc.to  Sat Oct 19 01:23:01 2002
From: alex_rice at arc.to (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Oct 19 01:23:01 2002
Subject: shell() questions
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEIOCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <BA1338C3-E314-11D6-A45B-000393529642@arc.to>

On Friday, October 18, 2002, at 09:34  PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>
> Cheers

Great! Not sure how I overlooked that--since it's the first 
cross-referenced item in the docs from the shell() function docs.

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From jeanne at runrev.com  Sat Oct 19 02:46:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat Oct 19 02:46:01 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0) Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <B9D5D3BF.1595C%troy@rpsystems.net>
References: <v0313032cb9d60748d063@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <v03130330b9d6b5e9d76f@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:05 PM -0700 10/18/2002, Troy Rollins wrote:
>Jeanne, as you know, I've advocated a Rev cookbook for a long time. You guys
>should consider a web form or something to allow folks to submit potential
>cookbook topic recipes.

It's on the to-do list for the website.

>Hopefully, the cookbook will offer cut-and-paste much
>like the rest of the documentation, which would make it almost like a
>library of usable behaviors at the same time as a training tool.

That's the general idea. (Yes, you'll be able to select and copy the code
segments.) Also, we've been looking at the idea of creating links where
appropriate between the cookbook and the object library - that is, where a
code example is associated with an object, we'd put that object in the
Object Library as well as in the Cookbook.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Sat Oct 19 02:46:45 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat Oct 19 02:46:45 2002
Subject: image within a graphic?
In-Reply-To: <a05111b02b9d6461f76d0@[65.96.59.41]>
Message-ID: <v03130331b9d6b72e23fd@[10.0.1.3]>

At 4:14 PM -0700 10/18/2002, Brad Allen wrote:
>Is there a way to place an image "inside" a graphic, similar to the
>way a button can hold an image by setting the icon property? My goal
>is to display a circular picture.

You can set a circular graphic's backgroundPattern to the ID of your image.
This will clip the image to the circular outline. (If the graphic is bigger
than the image, the image will tile.)

There are some limitations on the dimensions of images that can be used as
background patterns, depending on platform, so this may or may not work for
you - see the backgroundPattern entry in the Dictionary.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From jeanne at runrev.com  Sat Oct 19 02:46:58 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat Oct 19 02:46:58 2002
Subject: Standalone crashes when Mac Applications menu clicked
In-Reply-To: <a05010400b9d65e374131@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <v03130332b9d6b7f0516c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:01 PM -0700 10/18/2002, Bruce A. Pokras wrote:
>Is there any reason why a standalone always crashes when I try to
>bring down the Applications menu to switch to another application or
>to the Finder?

I'm not sure what might be causing this.

Does Revolution itself crash in the same way on your setup?

If you create a minimal standalone (try creating a new, blank mainstack and
make a standalone out of it), does the same problem occur?

Does the same thing happen if you start up while holding down the Shift key
to block loading of extensions?

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Sat Oct 19 03:12:01 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sat Oct 19 03:12:01 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0) Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <v03130330b9d6b5e9d76f@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCEJACKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Also, we've been looking at the idea of creating links where
> appropriate between the cookbook and the object library - that is, where a
> code example is associated with an object, we'd put that object in the
> Object Library as well as in the Cookbook.
>
Do you have See Also references from the Transcript Dictionary to the
Cookbook. It would be nice to have two submenus "Examples in Cookbook".



From herz at ames.ucsd.edu  Sat Oct 19 11:44:01 2002
From: herz at ames.ucsd.edu (Rich Herz)
Date: Sat Oct 19 11:44:01 2002
Subject: shell() questions
Message-ID: <200210191638.JAA12798@ ames>

>   set the hideConsoleWindows to true

I've had some windows apps display a DOS
window anyway.  The Windows shell command
has options (get with the DOS help utility)
including something like /b which runs the
app in the background and hides its window.

Rich Herz
herz at ucsd.edu




From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Sat Oct 19 12:31:05 2002
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sat Oct 19 12:31:05 2002
Subject: Comparing Revolution and REALbasic
Message-ID: <a05100304b9d74101e2cb@[206.117.139.191]>

Recently there was a lively discussion on some of these lists (apologies for the cross-posting) comparing REALbasic <http://www.realbasic.com> to Revolution <http://www.revolution.com>. Personally, I think they both have areas where they are strong.

I run a wiki web server with information on Revolution on it. A wiki is a web server where _anyone_ can edit a page right there in their browser, no password required.

I've put up a small set of pages comparing the two products. I started them out with some basics, but they need more. Everyone is welcome to come and add, make changes, post rebuttals, etc. You don't need a password, you can do it right now. Please be accurate and respectful. The goal is to end up with a set of pages that everyone can use as a reference, so the next time someone asks about the two products, we can point them to the pages and know they'll get an accurate portrait of two of the best development environments available.

Currently there is an introduction page:
<http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/revolutionAndRealbasicCompared>

A page for Revolution strong points with rebuttals:
<http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/revolution'sStrengthsComparedToRealbasic>

And a page for REALbasic strong points with rebuttals:
<http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/realbasicStrengthsComparedToRevolution>

Please don't change the names of the pages, or the above links will break. If you find they have broken, you can reach them at:

<http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/2636>
<http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/2637>
<http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/2638>
-- 

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com
geoff at runrev.com


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Sat Oct 19 12:52:01 2002
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sat Oct 19 12:52:01 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0) Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <B9D5D3BF.1595C%troy@rpsystems.net>
References: <B9D5D3BF.1595C%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <a05100307b9d74960da43@[206.117.139.191]>

At 3:05 PM -0400 10/18/02, Troy Rollins wrote:
>On 10/18/02 2:53 PM, "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <jeanne at runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> We're still working on this and finalizing the list, but the entries will
>> include things like handling selection of choices from a Text menu,
>> removing comments from a script, saving a backup, centering a stack window
>> on the screen, limiting the number of characters in a field, listing the
>> unique words in a string, truncating text to a pixel width, and many more.
>
>Jeanne, as you know, I've advocated a Rev cookbook for a long time. You guys
>should consider a web form or something to allow folks to submit potential
>cookbook topic recipes. There are simply a ton of handlers which could be
>examined this way. Hopefully, the cookbook will offer cut-and-paste much
>like the rest of the documentation, which would make it almost like a
>library of usable behaviors at the same time as a training tool.
>
>Just a thought.

Note that everyone can post examples right now to the wiki at <http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/codeSamples>

-- 

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com


From bvlahos at mac.com  Sat Oct 19 15:53:01 2002
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Sat Oct 19 15:53:01 2002
Subject: Dial via built in modem
Message-ID: <F946C0EA-E3A3-11D6-AF29-0003936A2C42@mac.com>

I would like to use the built in modem to dial a phone number. I want 
to build a simple phone directory and allow dialing from it. (I'd also 
like to get CallerID info too but that is very much secondary.)

I would like this to work on Macs and Windows but it only needs to work 
on Macs with OS X.

Can Rev. 1.1.1 do this? I don't see any entries in the dictionary for 
anything like this other than serial communications which I don't want 
to use (and don't work on X anyway). I don't see an AppleScript 
dictionary item for this either. All of the computers I want to run 
this on have built in modems so I was hoping to send a simple "dial" 
command which would dial the number and disengage.

Can this be done? If so, how?

Bill Vlahos



From macstacks at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 19 17:00:02 2002
From: macstacks at earthlink.net (Bruce A. Pokras)
Date: Sat Oct 19 17:00:02 2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: Standalone crashes when Mac Applications menu clicked
Message-ID: <a05010404b9d7569131d0@[192.168.1.100]>

Thanks, everyone, for your responses.

Revolution, itself, does not give this problem. It is only the 
standalone. When I booted with Extensions Off the problem did not 
occur. So what is it about a standalone that is different from the 
Revolution developer interface?

The standalone is very minimal - a single stack with one button and 
an "Openstack" script. The "openstack" script simply tells the 
standalone to open a separate interface stack. The standalone has 15 
Mb of RAM assigned to it, normally. However, I raised the Preferred 
RAM to 45 Mb, and the crash still occurred. When the crash occurs, 
the "submenu" function of the Finder becomes disabled. It cannot be 
re-enabled from the Apple Menu Options control panel. I have to 
reboot in order to get submenus back again.

I just recreated the standalone with the "openstack" script disabled. 
It still crashed when I tried to access a menu. I also tried a 
standalone that I created in May and it also crashed when I clicked 
on a menu.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,

Bruce Pokras


>
>At 6:01 PM -0700 10/18/2002, Bruce A. Pokras wrote:
>>Is there any reason why a standalone always crashes when I try to
>>bring down the Applications menu to switch to another application or
>>to the Finder?
>
>I'm not sure what might be causing this.
>
>Does Revolution itself crash in the same way on your setup?
>
>If you create a minimal standalone (try creating a new, blank mainstack and
>make a standalone out of it), does the same problem occur?
>
>Does the same thing happen if you start up while holding down the Shift key
>to block loading of extensions?
>
>--
>Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
>Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
>http://www.runrev.com/
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From matt.denton at limelight.com.au  Sat Oct 19 17:13:01 2002
From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton)
Date: Sat Oct 19 17:13:01 2002
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?
In-Reply-To: <E2A3C0AE-E3AD-11D6-9714-000393924880@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <01BF2062-E3AF-11D6-9714-000393924880@limelight.com.au>

Hey-ya all

One of the tools I've built for my own development is called Jump  
Scripts.  I use it all the time and it is perhaps the most useful  
development tool I've made to date.  What does it do?  It lets you jump  
immediately to any script in any stack, card or object very very  
quickly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
-----------------
Here's are the features:

	Jump to any script in any open stack via the keyboard;
	Jump through the stack hierarchy via keyboard: stack>card>objects;
	Edit script or property via keyboard;
	Filter out objects (say only view buttons) via keyboard;
	Displays if a stack, card or object has a script;
	Close a stack script or property window via keyboard;
	Bring focus on 'Jump Scripts' or minimize via the keyboard;
	Hide or show Rev stacks in the list.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
-----------------

Bottom line is you can navigate through to ANY script at high speed and  
saves lots and lots of time.  I'm a bit of a keyboard maniac (even the  
filter objects drop down menu is keyboard operated), however the  
keyboard commands are very very easy to use and pickup.

Would anyone be interested in this tool?   I'll release it for free as  
a service to all the kind people on the list, if there is interest.  It  
is only built for OSX at the moment but I'll build and test for OS9 and  
Windows if there is interest. I'd also appreciate any feedback and  
testing (this will be beta 0.5).

PLEASE RESPOND if you think you'd like this tool.

I use it every moment of my script development because it saves me so  
much time, I'd now like to share it if there is interest.

Let me know and if there is interest I'll post it in the next few days,  
first as a locked stack, then unlocked (after I've commented the  
scripts and checked code is tidy etc).

Cheers

M@
Matt Denton





From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Oct 19 17:50:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat Oct 19 17:50:01 2002
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?
References: <01BF2062-E3AF-11D6-9714-000393924880@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <002b01c277c0$73617c30$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Sounds cool to me, Matt. I'm interested...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Denton" <matt.denton at limelight.com.au>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 5:06 PM
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?


> Hey-ya all
> 
> One of the tools I've built for my own development is called Jump  
> Scripts.  I use it all the time and it is perhaps the most useful  
> development tool I've made to date.  What does it do?  It lets you jump  
> immediately to any script in any stack, card or object very very  
> quickly.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> -----------------
> Here's are the features:
> 
> Jump to any script in any open stack via the keyboard;
> Jump through the stack hierarchy via keyboard: stack>card>objects;
> Edit script or property via keyboard;
> Filter out objects (say only view buttons) via keyboard;
> Displays if a stack, card or object has a script;
> Close a stack script or property window via keyboard;
> Bring focus on 'Jump Scripts' or minimize via the keyboard;
> Hide or show Rev stacks in the list.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> -----------------
> 
> Bottom line is you can navigate through to ANY script at high speed and  
> saves lots and lots of time.  I'm a bit of a keyboard maniac (even the  
> filter objects drop down menu is keyboard operated), however the  
> keyboard commands are very very easy to use and pickup.
> 
> Would anyone be interested in this tool?   I'll release it for free as  
> a service to all the kind people on the list, if there is interest.  It  
> is only built for OSX at the moment but I'll build and test for OS9 and  
> Windows if there is interest. I'd also appreciate any feedback and  
> testing (this will be beta 0.5).
> 
> PLEASE RESPOND if you think you'd like this tool.
> 
> I use it every moment of my script development because it saves me so  
> much time, I'd now like to share it if there is interest.
> 
> Let me know and if there is interest I'll post it in the next few days,  
> first as a locked stack, then unlocked (after I've commented the  
> scripts and checked code is tidy etc).
> 
> Cheers
> 
> M@
> Matt Denton
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 19 17:55:01 2002
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat Oct 19 17:55:01 2002
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?
In-Reply-To: <01BF2062-E3AF-11D6-9714-000393924880@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <B474B044-E3B4-11D6-A882-0003936D5826@earthlink.net>

Color me interested.  Thanks.

Marian
On Saturday, October 19, 2002, at 05:06 PM, Matt Denton wrote:

> Hey-ya all
>
> One of the tools I've built for my own development is called Jump  
> Scripts.  I use it all the time and it is perhaps the most useful  
> development tool I've made to date.  What does it do?  It lets you  
> jump immediately to any script in any stack, card or object very very  
> quickly.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ------------------
> Here's are the features:
>
> 	Jump to any script in any open stack via the keyboard;
> 	Jump through the stack hierarchy via keyboard: stack>card>objects;
> 	Edit script or property via keyboard;
> 	Filter out objects (say only view buttons) via keyboard;
> 	Displays if a stack, card or object has a script;
> 	Close a stack script or property window via keyboard;
> 	Bring focus on 'Jump Scripts' or minimize via the keyboard;
> 	Hide or show Rev stacks in the list.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ------------------
>
> Bottom line is you can navigate through to ANY script at high speed  
> and saves lots and lots of time.  I'm a bit of a keyboard maniac (even  
> the filter objects drop down menu is keyboard operated), however the  
> keyboard commands are very very easy to use and pickup.
>
> Would anyone be interested in this tool?   I'll release it for free as  
> a service to all the kind people on the list, if there is interest.   
> It is only built for OSX at the moment but I'll build and test for OS9  
> and Windows if there is interest. I'd also appreciate any feedback and  
> testing (this will be beta 0.5).
>
> PLEASE RESPOND if you think you'd like this tool.
>
> I use it every moment of my script development because it saves me so  
> much time, I'd now like to share it if there is interest.
>
> Let me know and if there is interest I'll post it in the next few  
> days, first as a locked stack, then unlocked (after I've commented the  
> scripts and checked code is tidy etc).
>
> Cheers
>
> M@
> Matt Denton
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Oct 19 18:29:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat Oct 19 18:29:01 2002
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?
In-Reply-To: <01BF2062-E3AF-11D6-9714-000393924880@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <B9D76196.159BD%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/19/02 6:06 PM, "Matt Denton" <matt.denton at limelight.com.au> wrote:

> What does it do?  It lets you jump
> immediately to any script in any stack, card or object very very
> quickly.

Sounds cool. Hey, why not put it on the user contributions page at RunRev?

Thanks, Matt!!

-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net




From joshua at macmedicsmadison.com  Sat Oct 19 18:55:01 2002
From: joshua at macmedicsmadison.com (Joshua Snyder)
Date: Sat Oct 19 18:55:01 2002
Subject: Standalone crashes when Mac Applications menu clicked
In-Reply-To: <a05010404b9d7569131d0@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <63D321DE-E3BD-11D6-A574-0003936415E4@macmedicsmadison.com>

Remove the "Apple Menu Options Prefs" file from the Preffrences folder 
and reboot.  you might also want to remove the Finder, System, and 
MacOS preffs as well.


Josh




On Saturday, October 19, 2002, at 04:52  PM, Bruce A. Pokras wrote:

> Thanks, everyone, for your responses.
>
> Revolution, itself, does not give this problem. It is only the 
> standalone. When I booted with Extensions Off the problem did not 
> occur. So what is it about a standalone that is different from the 
> Revolution developer interface?
>
> The standalone is very minimal - a single stack with one button and an 
> "Openstack" script. The "openstack" script simply tells the standalone 
> to open a separate interface stack. The standalone has 15 Mb of RAM 
> assigned to it, normally. However, I raised the Preferred RAM to 45 
> Mb, and the crash still occurred. When the crash occurs, the "submenu" 
> function of the Finder becomes disabled. It cannot be re-enabled from 
> the Apple Menu Options control panel. I have to reboot in order to get 
> submenus back again.
>
> I just recreated the standalone with the "openstack" script disabled. 
> It still crashed when I tried to access a menu. I also tried a 
> standalone that I created in May and it also crashed when I clicked on 
> a menu.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruce Pokras
>
>
>>
>> At 6:01 PM -0700 10/18/2002, Bruce A. Pokras wrote:
>>> Is there any reason why a standalone always crashes when I try to
>>> bring down the Applications menu to switch to another application or
>>> to the Finder?
>>
>> I'm not sure what might be causing this.
>>
>> Does Revolution itself crash in the same way on your setup?
>>
>> If you create a minimal standalone (try creating a new, blank 
>> mainstack and
>> make a standalone out of it), does the same problem occur?
>>
>> Does the same thing happen if you start up while holding down the 
>> Shift key
>> to block loading of extensions?
>>
>> --
>> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
>> Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
>> http://www.runrev.com/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Oct 19 19:09:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat Oct 19 19:09:01 2002
Subject: Standalone crashes when Mac Applications menu clicked
In-Reply-To: <a05010404b9d7569131d0@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <B9D76B28.159C5%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/19/02 5:52 PM, "Bruce A. Pokras" <macstacks at earthlink.net> wrote:

> The standalone is very minimal - a single stack with one button and
> an "Openstack" script. The "openstack" script simply tells the
> standalone to open a separate interface stack. The standalone has 15
> Mb of RAM assigned to it, normally. However, I raised the Preferred
> RAM to 45 Mb, and the crash still occurred. When the crash occurs,
> the "submenu" function of the Finder becomes disabled. It cannot be
> re-enabled from the Apple Menu Options control panel. I have to
> reboot in order to get submenus back again.

Any weird startup apps or extensions oriented around menus or applications
switching on your system?
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From katir at hindu.org  Sat Oct 19 21:14:01 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sat Oct 19 21:14:01 2002
Subject: LAN remote file read, parse, write and move by shell
Message-ID: <0532D6A9-D675-11D6-8640-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

I don't know much shell scripting and am currently using FTP for this 
locally, it works, but its slow.

But is has been pointed out to me that  possibly native UNIX commands 
could be run to do the same thing... this is an a MAC OSX network. 
(where the remote machines are running OSX and the work stations also 
running OSX

Can anyone put this together in a combo of shell commands and 
transcript? Note the intention is NOT to have to mount the remote 
volumes on the desktop of the processing machine, but to 'talk' to them 
directly. using UNIX stuff like "rcp"

===========

1) read file (a) from remote machine (OSX server) on the LAN into 
variable on this machine

2) parse that file for a chunk ## each to use TRanscript for this

3) Write that chunk back out to file (b) to a different volume on the 
same or another remote machine on the LAN
4) move file (a) from one directory to another on the same machine 
where it resides.

??


Thanks!
Himalayan Academy Publications
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Editor's Assistant/Production Manager
katir at hindu.org
www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org

Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at
http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml



From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Oct 19 22:08:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat Oct 19 22:08:01 2002
Subject: LAN remote file read, parse, write and move by shell
In-Reply-To: <0532D6A9-D675-11D6-8640-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <5C028382-E3D8-11D6-9747-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, at 08:08  PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami 
wrote:

> I don't know much shell scripting and am currently using FTP for this 
> locally, it works, but its slow.
>
> But is has been pointed out to me that  possibly native UNIX commands 
> could be run to do the same thing... this is an a MAC OSX network. 
> (where the remote machines are running OSX and the work stations also 
> running OSX
>
> Can anyone put this together in a combo of shell commands and 
> transcript? Note the intention is NOT to have to mount the remote 
> volumes on the desktop of the processing machine, but to 'talk' to 
> them directly. using UNIX stuff like "rcp"

I would recommend scp (secure copy). It's part of SSH (secure shell) 
and comes with OS X. After you have enabled remote logins in the system 
preferences of the remote machine, you have enabled SSH. See the scp 
manual mage, "man scp" at the shell.
>
> 1) read file (a) from remote machine (OSX server) on the LAN into 
> variable on this machine

This shell script hasn't been tested, but might give you some ideas. 
Note that scp usually interactively asks for a password. However, in a 
shell situation you don't have the option of typing in the password so, 
I think, you have to use the -i <identity-file> option of scp to use an 
RSA keypair instead of passwords.

put shell("scp <username>@<remotehost> -i<identity-file> <remotefile> 
<localfile>") \
  into tRes

-- check tRes for errors here
put URL "file:<localfile>" into tContent

> 2) parse that file for a chunk ## each to use TRanscript for this

split(tContent <delim1> <delim2>...)
-- find the chunk and put it in tResult

> 3) Write that chunk back out to file (b) to a different volume on the 
> same or another remote machine on the LAN

put tResult into URL "file:<outfile>"

> 4) move file (a) from one directory to another on the same machine 
> where it resides.

I hope this helps get you started. Just dive in at the terminal.app and 
start reading man pages!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Sun Oct 20 00:17:01 2002
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Sun Oct 20 00:17:01 2002
Subject: Standalone crashes when Mac Applications menu clicked
In-Reply-To: <200210200209.WAA24962@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9D7866C.1DA0%dan@clearvisiontech.com>

Bruce,

This happens to me whenever I make a standalone that does not have a menubar
associated to it.

Hope that helps.

-Dan


> Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 17:52:42 -0400
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> From: "Bruce A. Pokras" <macstacks at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Fwd: Re: Standalone crashes when Mac Applications menu clicked
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> 
> Thanks, everyone, for your responses.
> 
> Revolution, itself, does not give this problem. It is only the
> standalone. When I booted with Extensions Off the problem did not
> occur. So what is it about a standalone that is different from the
> Revolution developer interface?
> 
> The standalone is very minimal - a single stack with one button and
> an "Openstack" script. The "openstack" script simply tells the
> standalone to open a separate interface stack. The standalone has 15
> Mb of RAM assigned to it, normally. However, I raised the Preferred
> RAM to 45 Mb, and the crash still occurred. When the crash occurs,
> the "submenu" function of the Finder becomes disabled. It cannot be
> re-enabled from the Apple Menu Options control panel. I have to
> reboot in order to get submenus back again.
> 
> I just recreated the standalone with the "openstack" script disabled.
> It still crashed when I tried to access a menu. I also tried a
> standalone that I created in May and it also crashed when I clicked
> on a menu.
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Bruce Pokras



From alex at mindlube.com  Sun Oct 20 02:52:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Oct 20 02:52:01 2002
Subject: Comparing Revolution and REALbasic
In-Reply-To: <a05100304b9d74101e2cb@[206.117.139.191]>
Message-ID: <016759E3-E400-11D6-9747-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Saturday, October 19, 2002, at 11:24  AM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> I've put up a small set of pages comparing the two products. I started 
> them out with some basics, but they need more. Everyone is welcome to 
> come and add, make changes, post rebuttals, etc. You don't need a 
> password, you can do it right now. Please be accurate and respectful. 
> The goal is to end up with a set of pages that everyone can use as a 
> reference, so the next time someone asks about the two products, we 
> can point them to the pages and know they'll get an accurate portrait 
> of two of the best development environments available.

Whoever is writing the realbasic rebuttals is a real jerk. Comments 
like "if you've never used a computer, perhaps", "And this (feature) 
helps you?", "it will bitch at you" What bullshit. Those comments don't 
belong in a logical discussion of the merits and strengths. They are 
just inflammatory.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 20 03:38:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun Oct 20 03:38:01 2002
Subject: Comparing Revolution and REALbasic
In-Reply-To: <016759E3-E400-11D6-9747-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <B9D7B84B.1E8BE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> Whoever is writing the realbasic rebuttals is a real jerk. Comments
> like "if you've never used a computer, perhaps", "And this (feature)
> helps you?", "it will bitch at you" What bullshit. Those comments don't
> belong in a logical discussion of the merits and strengths. They are
> just inflammatory.

Welcome to the unmoderated world of wikis. :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From alex at mindlube.com  Sun Oct 20 05:52:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Oct 20 05:52:01 2002
Subject: Comparing Revolution and REALbasic
In-Reply-To: <B9D7B84B.1E8BE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <2D7F3DC8-E419-11D6-A033-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Sunday, October 20, 2002, at 02:32  AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Welcome to the unmoderated world of wikis. :)

Yeah... but most wikis have a bit of solidarity among the participants.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From BradAllen at mac.com  Sun Oct 20 10:20:01 2002
From: BradAllen at mac.com (Brad Allen)
Date: Sun Oct 20 10:20:01 2002
Subject: image within a graphic?
In-Reply-To: <v03130331b9d6b72e23fd@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <v03130331b9d6b72e23fd@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <a05111b00b9d8752eb722@[65.96.59.41]>

>At 4:14 PM -0700 10/18/2002, Brad Allen wrote:
>>Is there a way to place an image "inside" a graphic, similar to the
>>way a button can hold an image by setting the icon property? My goal
>>is to display a circular picture.
>
>You can set a circular graphic's backgroundPattern to the ID of your image.
>This will clip the image to the circular outline. (If the graphic is bigger
>than the image, the image will tile.)

Thank you! This helps tremendously. I'm really glad Rev has this feature.


From BradAllen at mac.com  Sun Oct 20 10:20:34 2002
From: BradAllen at mac.com (Brad Allen)
Date: Sun Oct 20 10:20:34 2002
Subject: image within a graphic?
In-Reply-To: <004201c276fe$d06f21b0$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <a05111b02b9d6461f76d0@[65.96.59.41]>
 <004201c276fe$d06f21b0$6601a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <a05111b01b9d87579c8dd@[65.96.59.41]>

At 6:33 PM -0500 10/18/02, Ken Ray wrote:
>If you have a transparent GIF, you should be able to just import it and it
>will display with its transparency already on... I don't understand - did
>>this not work for you? And if so, what happened?


I must've done something wrong saving the image. I tried all the 
options I could find within Photoshop 7. In this case, however, it 
doesn't matter because it looks like I can achieve the needed 
functionality by setting the backgroundpattern of a graphics object 
to the desired image.


From macstacks at earthlink.net  Sun Oct 20 10:36:01 2002
From: macstacks at earthlink.net (Bruce A. Pokras)
Date: Sun Oct 20 10:36:01 2002
Subject: Standalone crashing problem solved -- and incompatibility report
Message-ID: <a05010401b9d8746c4e79@[192.168.1.100]>

>Status:  U
>Subject: Re: Standalone crashes when Mac Applications menu clicked
>From: Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>
>Any weird startup apps or extensions oriented around menus or applications
>switching on your system?
>--
>Troy
>RPSystems, Ltd.
>www.rpsystems.net
>

Good point, Troy. I noticed that the only submenu that was still 
enabled after each crash was the fax menu from FaxSTF 6.0. So I went 
into the FaxSTF app, turned off the fax menu option, and restarted. 
To my pleasant surprise, the standalone no longer crashes when I 
click on a menu. Of course, now I will have to use the Control Strip 
rather than the fax menu for controling faxes.

The RunRev people should look into this incompatibility. It is not 
good for the reputation of Revolution developers if their 
applications crash on the Macs of every user who has the fax menu 
from FaxSTF enabled.

Thanks to everyone who offered their assistance.

Regards,

Bruce Pokras




From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Oct 20 10:58:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun Oct 20 10:58:01 2002
Subject: LAN remote file read, parse, write and move by shell
In-Reply-To: <0532D6A9-D675-11D6-8640-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
References: <0532D6A9-D675-11D6-8640-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9d87dfd0871@[216.229.107.67]>

Aloha Sannyasin,

>I don't know much shell scripting and am currently using FTP for 
>this locally, it works, but its slow.

Are you using get/put URL for items 1 & 3?

>
>But is has been pointed out to me that  possibly native UNIX 
>commands could be run to do the same thing... this is an a MAC OSX 
>network. (where the remote machines are running OSX and the work 
>stations also running OSX

Since you plan to continue parsing the file with Transcript, try 
completing steps 1, 3, & 4 without parsing.  This should give you an 
indication of whether the slow down is in file handling or parsing. 
If it's parsing, I'd focus on the Transcript handlers for step 2 
rather than converting the other steps to a shell command.

>
>Can anyone put this together in a combo of shell commands and 
>transcript? Note the intention is NOT to have to mount the remote 
>volumes on the desktop of the processing machine, but to 'talk' to 
>them directly. using UNIX stuff like "rcp"
>
>===========
>
>1) read file (a) from remote machine (OSX server) on the LAN into 
>variable on this machine
>
>2) parse that file for a chunk ## each to use TRanscript for this
>
>3) Write that chunk back out to file (b) to a different volume on 
>the same or another remote machine on the LAN
>4) move file (a) from one directory to another on the same machine 
>where it resides.

I find it hard to imagine that running Unix in a shell to read or 
write a file would be significantly faster than get/put URL.  I have 
no clue about moving a file.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From leonpoly at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 20 14:09:01 2002
From: leonpoly at yahoo.com (polymeropoulos grigoris)
Date: Sun Oct 20 14:09:01 2002
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?
In-Reply-To: <01BF2062-E3AF-11D6-9714-000393924880@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <20021020190242.44935.qmail@web40614.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes, I am interested too, but OS9.x please

thanks alot
Grigoris

--- Matt Denton <matt.denton at limelight.com.au> wrote:
> Hey-ya all
> 
> One of the tools I've built for my own development
> is called Jump  
> Scripts.  I use it all the time and it is perhaps
> the most useful  
> development tool I've made to date.  What does it
> do?  It lets you jump  
> immediately to any script in any stack, card or
> object very very  
> quickly.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> -----------------
> Here's are the features:
> 
> 	Jump to any script in any open stack via the
> keyboard;
> 	Jump through the stack hierarchy via keyboard:
> stack>card>objects;
> 	Edit script or property via keyboard;
> 	Filter out objects (say only view buttons) via
> keyboard;
> 	Displays if a stack, card or object has a script;
> 	Close a stack script or property window via
> keyboard;
> 	Bring focus on 'Jump Scripts' or minimize via the
> keyboard;
> 	Hide or show Rev stacks in the list.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> -----------------
> 
> Bottom line is you can navigate through to ANY
> script at high speed and  
> saves lots and lots of time.  I'm a bit of a
> keyboard maniac (even the  
> filter objects drop down menu is keyboard operated),
> however the  
> keyboard commands are very very easy to use and
> pickup.
> 
> Would anyone be interested in this tool?   I'll
> release it for free as  
> a service to all the kind people on the list, if
> there is interest.  It  
> is only built for OSX at the moment but I'll build
> and test for OS9 and  
> Windows if there is interest. I'd also appreciate
> any feedback and  
> testing (this will be beta 0.5).
> 
> PLEASE RESPOND if you think you'd like this tool.
> 
> I use it every moment of my script development
> because it saves me so  
> much time, I'd now like to share it if there is
> interest.
> 
> Let me know and if there is interest I'll post it in
> the next few days,  
> first as a locked stack, then unlocked (after I've
> commented the  
> scripts and checked code is tidy etc).
> 
> Cheers
> 
> M@
> Matt Denton
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


From RGould8 at aol.com  Sun Oct 20 16:59:01 2002
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 20 16:59:01 2002
Subject: My Applescript works in Editor, but not in Revolution
Message-ID: <14a.16255f66.2ae47fae@aol.com>

Can anyone tell me what I'd need to do to get this script to run in 
Revolution?  It runs fine in Script Editor, but Revolution gives me a 
"compile error" when I paste this into a field and try to run it from the 
field.

The goal of this script is to:

1)  Have the finder locate "Apple System Profiler", so that Applescript 
doesn't pester the user to locate it
2)  Have Apple System Profiler return the "router address"

Note:  This "how to tell Apple System Profiler commands without pestering the 
user to locate it first" problem is a toughie to figure out.  If anyone knows 
of a better way to do this, please let me know.



tell application "Finder"
    set appRef to application file id "prfc"
    set [appPath, appName] to {appRef as string, appRef's name}
    set ASP to appPath
end tell



using terms from application "Apple System Profiler"
    tell application ASP
        activate
        set routerAddress to {TCPIP gateway as text}
        quit
        display dialog routerAddress
    end tell
end using terms from


From matt.denton at limelight.com.au  Sun Oct 20 17:20:00 2002
From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton)
Date: Sun Oct 20 17:20:00 2002
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?
In-Reply-To: <200210200209.WAA25045@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <459B3238-E479-11D6-8A70-000393924880@limelight.com.au>

Dear List

Thanks to the great response to my request both here in the List and  
off List.  Since then, I've added about six new features to 'Jump  
Script' and will be releasing it first as a Mac OSX and OS9 test app to  
those who are interested, shortly followed by Windows.

So if there is anyone on OS9 or OSX that hasn't responded and would  
like to be in the first test seed, please email me off-list ASAP.

To reiterate: my motivation releasing this tool (and for spending the  
last two days upgrading it!) is that this is a really great  
keyboard/mouse method to navigate through the myriad of scripts -  
stacks, cards and objects -- saving you lots and lots of  
hunting/navigation time.  It doesn't replace 'Application Overview' but  
works together with it.

Thanks again.

M@
Matt Denton

On Sunday, October 20, 2002, at 12:09  PM,  Matt Denton  
<matt.denton at limelight.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hey-ya all
>
> One of the tools I've built for my own development is called Jump
> Scripts.  I use it all the time and it is perhaps the most useful
> development tool I've made to date.  What does it do?  It lets you jump
> immediately to any script in any stack, card or object very very
> quickly.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -
> Here's are the features:
>
> 	Jump to any script in any open stack via the keyboard;
> 	Jump through the stack hierarchy via keyboard: stack>card>objects;
> 	Edit script or property via keyboard;
> 	Filter out objects (say only view buttons) via keyboard;
> 	Displays if a stack, card or object has a script;
> 	Close a stack script or property window via keyboard;
> 	Bring focus on 'Jump Scripts' or minimize via the keyboard;
> 	Hide or show Rev stacks in the list.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -
>
> Bottom line is you can navigate through to ANY script at high speed and
> saves lots and lots of time.  I'm a bit of a keyboard maniac (even the
> filter objects drop down menu is keyboard operated), however the
> keyboard commands are very very easy to use and pickup.
>
> Would anyone be interested in this tool?   I'll release it for free as
> a service to all the kind people on the list, if there is interest.  It
> is only built for OSX at the moment but I'll build and test for OS9 and
> Windows if there is interest. I'd also appreciate any feedback and
> testing (this will be beta 0.5).
>
> PLEASE RESPOND if you think you'd like this tool.
>
> I use it every moment of my script development because it saves me so
> much time, I'd now like to share it if there is interest.
>
> Let me know and if there is interest I'll post it in the next few days,
> first as a locked stack, then unlocked (after I've commented the
> scripts and checked code is tidy etc).
>
> Cheers
>
> M@
> Matt Denton
>
M@

Matt Denton
matt.denton at limelight.com.au

Limelight Media Pty Ltd
Phone: 02) ??9211-6622
Fax: ??????02) ??9211-5922


HEY, ?THIS IS NOT MY E-MAIL!

If this e-mail is not for you, please let us know and destroy the  
original:

wrongmail at limelight.com.au

or call 02) 9211-6622 ?or ?INT ?+612 9211-6622. ??Thanks for your kind  
help.

LEGAL

This e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or entity  
?named above and may contain information that is confidential and  
?privileged. ??If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby  
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this Email  
is strictly prohibited. ?

Before opening or using attachments, check them for viruses and defects.

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From matt.denton at limelight.com.au  Sun Oct 20 17:22:00 2002
From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton)
Date: Sun Oct 20 17:22:00 2002
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?
In-Reply-To: <459B3238-E479-11D6-8A70-000393924880@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <80C981CA-E479-11D6-8A70-000393924880@limelight.com.au>

Whoops sorry about the previous HTML formatting (my default).

On Monday, October 21, 2002, at 08:14  AM, Matt Denton wrote:

> Dear List
>
> Thanks to the great response to my request both here in the List and  
> off List.  Since then, I've added about six new features to 'Jump  
> Script' and will be releasing it first as a Mac OSX and OS9 test app  
> to those who are interested, shortly followed by Windows.
>
> So if there is anyone on OS9 or OSX that hasn't responded and would  
> like to be in the first test seed, please email me off-list ASAP.
>
> To reiterate: my motivation releasing this tool (and for spending the  
> last two days upgrading it!) is that this is a really great  
> keyboard/mouse method to navigate through the myriad of scripts -  
> stacks, cards and objects -- saving you lots and lots of  
> hunting/navigation time.  It doesn't replace 'Application Overview'  
> but works together with it.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> M@
> Matt Denton
>
> On Sunday, October 20, 2002, at 12:09  PM,  Matt Denton  
> <matt.denton at limelight.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Hey-ya all
>>
>> One of the tools I've built for my own development is called Jump
>> Scripts.  I use it all the time and it is perhaps the most useful
>> development tool I've made to date.  What does it do?  It lets you  
>> jump
>> immediately to any script in any stack, card or object very very
>> quickly.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> --
>> Here's are the features:
>>
>> 	Jump to any script in any open stack via the keyboard;
>> 	Jump through the stack hierarchy via keyboard: stack>card>objects;
>> 	Edit script or property via keyboard;
>> 	Filter out objects (say only view buttons) via keyboard;
>> 	Displays if a stack, card or object has a script;
>> 	Close a stack script or property window via keyboard;
>> 	Bring focus on 'Jump Scripts' or minimize via the keyboard;
>> 	Hide or show Rev stacks in the list.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> --
>>
>> Bottom line is you can navigate through to ANY script at high speed  
>> and
>> saves lots and lots of time.  I'm a bit of a keyboard maniac (even the
>> filter objects drop down menu is keyboard operated), however the
>> keyboard commands are very very easy to use and pickup.
>>
>> Would anyone be interested in this tool?   I'll release it for free as
>> a service to all the kind people on the list, if there is interest.   
>> It
>> is only built for OSX at the moment but I'll build and test for OS9  
>> and
>> Windows if there is interest. I'd also appreciate any feedback and
>> testing (this will be beta 0.5).
>>
>> PLEASE RESPOND if you think you'd like this tool.
>>
>> I use it every moment of my script development because it saves me so
>> much time, I'd now like to share it if there is interest.
>>
>> Let me know and if there is interest I'll post it in the next few  
>> days,
>> first as a locked stack, then unlocked (after I've commented the
>> scripts and checked code is tidy etc).




From alex at mindlube.com  Sun Oct 20 23:53:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun Oct 20 23:53:01 2002
Subject: OS X- quartz or not?
Message-ID: <2C66700A-E4B0-11D6-835D-000393529642@mindlube.com>

In the realbasic strengths section of
http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/ 
realbasicStrengthsComparedToRevolution
it says "REALBasic apps use Quartz rendering."

Right now I am running QuartzDebug.app, which comes with the MacOS X  
Devloper tools. I compiled a Rev app (using Rev 1.1.1) for 10.2 and am  
looking at it with QuartzDebug.app. The Rev app lights up like a  
christmas tree (indicating Quartz drawing) and I can tell no difference  
in the QuartzDebug output between the Rev app and say, TextEdit, which  
is a Cocoa application and which definitely uses Quartz text rendering.

Based on this anecdotal evidence I would venture that Rev apps on OS X  
do already use Quartz thanks to Appearance Manager. Can someone who  
knows Quartz well write a rebuttal for that item?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From terry at discovery.nl  Mon Oct 21 00:48:00 2002
From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Mon Oct 21 00:48:00 2002
Subject: image within a graphic?
In-Reply-To: <a05111b01b9d87579c8dd@[65.96.59.41]>
Message-ID: <C3D73F8D-E4B7-11D6-A5EF-0030656FD666@discovery.nl>

Brad Allen heeft op zondag, 20 okt 2002 om 17:14 het volgende 
geschreven:

> At 6:33 PM -0500 10/18/02, Ken Ray wrote:
>> If you have a transparent GIF, you should be able to just import it 
>> and it
>> will display with its transparency already on... I don't understand - 
>> did this not work for you? And if so, what happened?
>
> I must've done something wrong saving the image. I tried all the 
> options I could find within Photoshop 7. In this case, however, it 
> doesn't matter because it looks like I can achieve the needed 
> functionality by setting the backgroundpattern of a graphics object to 
> the desired image.

Just choosing the option 'transparency' will not help you; you need to 
choose a color to make transparent in PhotoShop.

However, if you really want to make stunning graphics with full 8-bit 
transparency and millions of colors, you shouldn't use GIF, but PNG. In 
PhotoShop  7 you can make a layered graphic with transparency (so 
remove the opaque bottom layer named 'background' or turn it into a 
normal layer and erase some parts of it to see what I mean.) Then 
choose 'merge visible' from the layers palette - not 'flatten image'. 
Then save the image as a PNG file and you have an image with the same 
transparency you had in PhotoShop.

Terry




From rodmc at runrev.com  Mon Oct 21 06:12:01 2002
From: rodmc at runrev.com (Rod McCall)
Date: Mon Oct 21 06:12:01 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b9d63da671b4@[216.229.107.161]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021018171930.017bade8@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021018171930.017bade8@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021021120135.028a3188@mail.spamcop.net>

At 15:46 18/10/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>>>PBS presented "House of Cards" in the US; so at least some Yanks know 
>>>the quote.
>>
>>Excellent, I often wondered if it had made it across the pond.
>
>Yes indeed, Rod, F. U.'s rise & fall was followed by many here.

I hope they didn't get the *wrong* impression of British politics? :-)

Anyway given my current job here as PR person I've decided to use F. U. 's 
quote in my email signature as I think its appropriate given we are in the 
process of being asked lots of questions about the next release :-)

Kind regards,

Rod


Rod McCall  <www.runrev.com>
Runtime Revolution Ltd
Revolution - The Solution for Software Development
tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165 fax: +44 (0) 131 718 4334

"You might think that, you might very well think that,
but I couldn't possibly comment." ("House of Cards", BBC)



From miscdas at boxfrog.com  Mon Oct 21 08:06:01 2002
From: miscdas at boxfrog.com (miscdas at boxfrog.com)
Date: Mon Oct 21 08:06:01 2002
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?
In-Reply-To: <01BF2062-E3AF-11D6-9714-000393924880@limelight.com.au> 
References: <01BF2062-E3AF-11D6-9714-000393924880@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <20021021130040.99155.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>

Matt, 

I am interested in the Windoze version. I don't see other requests for this 
platform, so if it's too much bother, don't sweat it. 

miscdas 

====
[snip
Matt Denton writes: 

> Hey-ya all 
> 
> One of the tools I've built for my own development is called Jump  
> Scripts.  I use it all the time and it is perhaps the most useful  
> development tool I've made to date.  What does it do?  It lets you jump  
> immediately to any script in any stack, card or object very very  quickly.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> -----------------
>> Would anyone be interested in this tool?   I'll release it for free as  a
> service to all the kind people on the list, if there is interest.  It  is 
> only built for OSX at the moment but I'll build and test for OS9 and  
> Windows if there is interest. I'd also appreciate any feedback and  
> testing (this will be beta 0.5). 
> 
> PLEASE RESPOND if you think you'd like this tool. 
> 


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 21 08:57:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct 21 08:57:01 2002
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?
In-Reply-To: <20021021130040.99155.qmail@www.boxfrog.com>
Message-ID: <20021021135121.61625.qmail@web11908.mail.yahoo.com>

Let me put in that other request for a windoze version
then ;-)

Jan Schenkel.

--- miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:
> Matt, 
> 
> I am interested in the Windoze version. I don't see
> other requests for this 
> platform, so if it's too much bother, don't sweat
> it. 
> 
> miscdas 
> 
> ====
> [snip
> Matt Denton writes: 
> 
> > Hey-ya all 
> > 
> > One of the tools I've built for my own development
> is called Jump  
> > Scripts.  I use it all the time and it is perhaps
> the most useful  
> > development tool I've made to date.  What does it
> do?  It lets you jump  
> > immediately to any script in any stack, card or
> object very very  quickly.
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> > -----------------
> >> Would anyone be interested in this tool?   I'll
> release it for free as  a
> > service to all the kind people on the list, if
> there is interest.  It  is 
> > only built for OSX at the moment but I'll build
> and test for OS9 and  
> > Windows if there is interest. I'd also appreciate
> any feedback and  
> > testing (this will be beta 0.5). 
> > 
> > PLEASE RESPOND if you think you'd like this tool. 
> > 

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Oct 21 10:21:02 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon Oct 21 10:21:02 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021021120135.028a3188@mail.spamcop.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021018171930.017bade8@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021018171930.017bade8@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021021120135.028a3188@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9d9c98ed794@[216.229.107.67]>

>I hope they didn't get the *wrong* impression of British politics? :-)

Before "House of Cards", I thought all British political scandals 
were sex-related.    :{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From jema at club-internet.fr  Mon Oct 21 10:36:01 2002
From: jema at club-internet.fr (jm Arrigault)
Date: Mon Oct 21 10:36:01 2002
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?
References: <01BF2062-E3AF-11D6-9714-000393924880@limelight.com.au>
Message-ID: <3DB41D9D.65F4454F@club-internet.fr>

Matt Denton a ecrit :

> Would anyone be interested in this tool?   I'll release it for free as
> a service to all the kind people on the list, if there is interest.  It
> is only built for OSX at the moment but I'll build and test for OS9 and
> Windows if there is interest. I'd also appreciate any feedback and
> testing (this will be beta 0.5).
>
> PLEASE RESPOND if you think you'd like this tool.

Yes Matt, I am interested, but for the time being, I'm working with MacOS 9.

Anyway, thanks to you,

Jean-Marc Arrigault




From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Mon Oct 21 10:50:01 2002
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (Bernard Devlin)
Date: Mon Oct 21 10:50:01 2002
Subject: composing connection string for ODBC
Message-ID: <200210211138.HAA15342@www.runrev.com>

Trying to make my ODBC connection strings dynamically modifiable, but I have a
problem.


Here's the code

    put quote & the text of button btnDbType & quote into DbType
    put quote & the text of field fdDsn & quote into Dsn
    put quote & the text of field fdUsername & quote into Username
    put quote & the cpPassword of field fdDsn & quote into thePassword
    answer DbType,Dsn,Username,thePassword
    get revdb_connect(DbType,Dsn,,Username,thePassword)
    --get revdb_connect("ODBC","ibXTGLocal",,"aUser","aPassword")

If I perform the connection with the commented code it works.

The answer command shows "ODBC","ibXTGLocal",,"aUser","aPassword".

BUT... the connection fails if the connect string consists of the variables
rather than the literal strings.  This is the case even if I remove the '&
quote' constants from the values inserted into the variables.

Any suggestions why my code does not work?


From rodmc at runrev.com  Mon Oct 21 11:03:01 2002
From: rodmc at runrev.com (Rod McCall)
Date: Mon Oct 21 11:03:01 2002
Subject: 1.5 (now 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b9d9c98ed794@[216.229.107.67]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021021120135.028a3188@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021018171930.017bade8@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017124528.026be340@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021017182440.02620780@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021018171930.017bade8@mail.spamcop.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20021021120135.028a3188@mail.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021021165346.029dbb40@mail.spamcop.net>

At 08:13 21/10/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>>I hope they didn't get the *wrong* impression of British politics? :-)
>
>Before "House of Cards", I thought all British political scandals were 
>sex-related.    :{`)

Only 90% of them :-) , the other 10% usually involves lying in court or a 
combination of the two.


cheers,

Rod


Rod McCall  <www.runrev.com>
Runtime Revolution Ltd
Revolution - The Solution for Software Development
tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165 fax: +44 (0) 131 718 4334

"You might think that, you might very well think that,
but I couldn't possibly comment." ("House of Cards", BBC)



From bvlahos at mac.com  Mon Oct 21 15:34:01 2002
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Mon Oct 21 15:34:01 2002
Subject: Long Files name problem
Message-ID: <6916CBB3-E533-11D6-A438-003065EC5590@mac.com>

If I use the long files command for the file named:

2002.08.26 5xTi (800dvi) CapReq

	I get:

2002.08.26+5xTi+%28800dvi%29+CapReq

Obviously, the long files command is dealing with the space and open 
and close parens.

Is there a simple way to automatically deal with these? I'm using Rev. 
1.1.1 in OS X 10.2.1.

Bill



From jeanne at runrev.com  Mon Oct 21 16:04:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon Oct 21 16:04:01 2002
Subject: Long Files name problem
In-Reply-To: <6916CBB3-E533-11D6-A438-003065EC5590@mac.com>
Message-ID: <v03130303b9da1a7f81a5@[10.0.1.2]>

At 1:26 PM -0700 10/21/2002, Bill Vlahos wrote:
>If I use the long files command for the file named:
>
>2002.08.26 5xTi (800dvi) CapReq
>
>	I get:
>
>2002.08.26+5xTi+%28800dvi%29+CapReq


The filename is URL encoded when you get the "long files". To decode it,
run it through the urlDecode function.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From matt.denton at limelight.com.au  Mon Oct 21 17:18:01 2002
From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton)
Date: Mon Oct 21 17:18:01 2002
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?
In-Reply-To: <200210211423.KAA17133@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20934971-E542-11D6-BBFA-000393924880@limelight.com.au>

Hey-ya all

Thanks for the great response, and without even seeing the tool!  
Anyway I will be emailing beta version 0.5 to all Mac users for testing 
tomorrow night (I've added a few new features that I need to debug), 
then Windows version < a week later.  I'll then post a version on the 
web for all to download once a few more people have tested it out and 
it is clean.

Many thanks for your kind responses!  Keep an eye out tomorrow night 
(Australian time). Don't worry, it is only 160K.

Thanks again,

M@
Matt Denton




From bvlahos at mac.com  Mon Oct 21 22:56:01 2002
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Mon Oct 21 22:56:01 2002
Subject: Long Files name problem
In-Reply-To: <v03130303b9da1a7f81a5@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <359E330C-E571-11D6-951F-003065EC5590@mac.com>

Thanks Jeanne,

That did it.

Bill

On Monday, October 21, 2002, at 01:57  PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 1:26 PM -0700 10/21/2002, Bill Vlahos wrote:
>> If I use the long files command for the file named:
>>
>> 2002.08.26 5xTi (800dvi) CapReq
>>
>> 	I get:
>>
>> 2002.08.26+5xTi+%28800dvi%29+CapReq
>
>
> The filename is URL encoded when you get the "long files". To decode 
> it,
> run it through the urlDecode function.
>
> --
> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
> Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
> http://www.runrev.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Oct 21 23:57:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon Oct 21 23:57:01 2002
Subject: OS X- quartz or not?
In-Reply-To: <2C66700A-E4B0-11D6-835D-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <F97DA10F-E579-11D6-AC8E-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Sunday, October 20, 2002, at 10:47  PM, Alex Rice wrote:
>
> Based on this anecdotal evidence I would venture that Rev apps on OS X 
> do already use Quartz thanks to Appearance Manager. Can someone who 
> knows Quartz well write a rebuttal for that item?

Never mind, I was confused about what QuartzDebug is showing. Here is a 
helpful explanation from a OS X-pert
--

From: "Erik M. Buck" <embassociates at qwest.net>
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002  10:21:09  PM America/Denver
To: "Alex Rice" <alex at mindlube.com>, macosx-dev at omnigroup.com
Subject: Re: QuartzDebug question
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000

  Quartz is two things.  It is a 2d vector drawing API and it is a 
"window
server".
- The 2d vector drawing is the aspect of quartz the most people think 
about.
This is where anti-aliased lines, transparent compositing, and PDF 
imaging
model with floating point coordinates lives. There are ties into the 
font
rendering technology here too.
- The window server is a process that owns the display frame buffer/back
buffer. Ultimately, all drawing goes through the window server unless 
the
full screen has been captured by OpenGL/Core graphics.  The window 
server
keeps applications from drawing outside their windows, provides drop
shadows, provides window layering, live window drags, manages flushes 
from
each application's window backing store into the back/frame buffer, and
swaps buffers (usually during the vertical blank when possible).

Quartz Debug primarily shows buffer flushes that are part of the window
server functionality.  Quartz Debug does not particularly tell you 
anything
about the drawing that took place to require the buffer flush.

I expect all drawing done by windowed applications to show up in Quartz
debug regardless of whether the drawing is done by Quartz 2d, Quickdraw,
OpenGL, or direct bit manipulations in a window's backing store.  How 
the
drawing is done will have little impact that is visible via Quartz 
Debug,
but of course it has tremendous impact on the quality of the graphics
produced.  Quartz debug is just showing that drawing/flushing took 
place.

> What can be deduced from this result in QuartzDebug? Is the app a
> first-class Quartz citizen? I guess the term "Quartz" encompasses a lot
> of different things. Just trying to find out if there are different
> levels of quartz rendering or if it's an all or nothing deal.



Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From alanIra9 at mac.com  Tue Oct 22 06:23:00 2002
From: alanIra9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Tue Oct 22 06:23:00 2002
Subject: questions re button behavior
In-Reply-To: <v0313031ab9d418ccc195@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <15CD987C-E5AF-11D6-9A14-000393158950@mac.com>

Jeanne,

I would like to apologize for not acknowledging your kind response 
sooner but my cable modem service has been down and although I have been 
able to pick up my personal e-mail at my office, our system would not 
let me respond as a name that would be recognized as participating in 
the mailing list.

That said, your little tip on the popup problem pointed me in the right 
direction and inspired me to develop a little trick which allows any 
object that can receive a mouseDown message to serve as a popup menu 
button.  This uses single, invisible "rovingPopup" button, a bit of 
script and a tiny modal stack which allows the contents of the menu list 
to be modified dynamically by the user.

If there would be any interest I would be happy to supply this to the 
"user contribution" section of the RunRev website - but truth to tell 
I'm not very web savvy and I'm not exactly sure how to do this so I 
think the best approach would be for me to e-mail my little stack to the 
right person at RunRev.    Would that be you?

Thanks and regards,
Alan Gayne


On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 03:38  AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 4:18 PM -0700 10/14/2002, Alan Gayne wrote:
>> 1.	I've recently created a number of "popUp" menu buttons with 3 to 7
>> lines of content.  No matter how I fiddle the settings I can't seem to
>> get these to show a border - I've made sure that the "show border" 
>> check
>> box is checked and that works fine with "pulldown" menu buttons, but 
>> not
>> on the "popUp".  I want to use the "popUp" style because I want the
>> menus to appear off to the side, not straight down.  This is probably
>> something simple - but I haven't been able to figure it out.
>
> As far as I know, you can't get the popup style to appear with a border.
>
> I'd create a standard or rectangle button to show on the screen, put the
> popup button behind it, and use this in the rectangle button:
>
>   on mouseDown
>     popup button "The Popup" at the bottomLeft of me
>   end mouseDown
>
> _______________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From simon-lists at ldml.com  Tue Oct 22 09:57:00 2002
From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster)
Date: Tue Oct 22 09:57:00 2002
Subject: questions re button behavior
In-Reply-To: <15CD987C-E5AF-11D6-9A14-000393158950@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AEBD5DB6-E5CD-11D6-A2EC-0050E4CE1D03@ldml.com>

On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 12:12 PM, Alan Gayne wrote:

> That said, your little tip on the popup problem pointed me in the 
> right direction and inspired me to develop a little trick which allows 
> any object that can receive a mouseDown message to serve as a popup 
> menu button.  This uses single, invisible "rovingPopup" button, a bit 
> of script and a tiny modal stack which allows the contents of the menu 
> list to be modified dynamically by the user.

Ooh. Can I beg a copy off you? It sounds like something I'm looking for.

TIA

Simon Forster
_________________________________________________
BabelFix Ltd, Office One, 16 Canham Road, London, W3 7SR, UK
<tel int="+44 20 8746 0555" uk="020 8746 0555">
<tel int="+44 70 9230 5244" uk="070 9230 5244">
<fax int="+44 70 9230 5247" uk="070 9230 5247">
<mailto:simon at babelfix.com>
_________________________________________________



From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct 22 10:05:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue Oct 22 10:05:01 2002
Subject: questions re button behavior
In-Reply-To: <AEBD5DB6-E5CD-11D6-A2EC-0050E4CE1D03@ldml.com>
Message-ID: <B9DADFFD.15A74%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/22/02 10:51 AM, "Simon Forster" <simon-lists at ldml.com> wrote:

>> That said, your little tip on the popup problem pointed me in the
>> right direction and inspired me to develop a little trick which allows
>> any object that can receive a mouseDown message to serve as a popup
>> menu button.  This uses single, invisible "rovingPopup" button, a bit
>> of script and a tiny modal stack which allows the contents of the menu
>> list to be modified dynamically by the user.
> 
> Ooh. Can I beg a copy off you? It sounds like something I'm looking for.

Yes, this sounds like another item that should make its way to the user
contribution page (or feel free to email it to each and every one of us...
;-)


Thanks!
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From terry at discovery.nl  Tue Oct 22 10:27:00 2002
From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Tue Oct 22 10:27:00 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
Message-ID: <B9DB38F1.1615%terry@discovery.nl>

I have 31142 items to keep track of and I wonder what the best approach
would be to store them. Each item should have an equal number of fields,
just a few, with not much text data in each. I could make a comma delimited
field with 31142 lines, a stack with 31142 cards or a database with 31142
records. I need to sort them in several ways and I wonder what the fastest
way is to store and access the data. Any suggestions? What are the benefits
of each solution?

Terry



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 22 11:12:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 22 11:12:01 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <B9DB38F1.1615%terry@discovery.nl>
Message-ID: <18EF98A2-E5D8-11D6-9787-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 09:18 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:

> I could make a comma delimited
> field with 31142 lines, a stack with 31142 cards or a database with 31142
> records.

Is there a particular reason why arrays are not on your list?  Does this 
mean you have no field (combination) that is unique?  Are there operations 
you need that arrays can't do well?

I'm not really advocating arrays.  I'm too green to do that.  It's just I 
wouldn't have thrown out arrays as candidates.

Dar



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Tue Oct 22 11:21:00 2002
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE)
Date: Tue Oct 22 11:21:00 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <B9DB38F1.1615%terry@discovery.nl>
References: <B9DB38F1.1615%terry@discovery.nl>
Message-ID: <p05100300b9db29e0632f@[10.0.1.202]>

>I have 31142 items to keep track of and I wonder what the best approach
>would be to store them. Each item should have an equal number of fields,
>just a few, with not much text data in each. I could make a comma delimited
>field with 31142 lines, a stack with 31142 cards or a database with 31142
>records. I need to sort them in several ways and I wonder what the fastest
>way is to store and access the data. Any suggestions? What are the benefits
>of each solution?
>
>Terry
>


A field !!!!
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Tue Oct 22 11:36:01 2002
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Tue Oct 22 11:36:01 2002
Subject: Specifying a point of origin
Message-ID: <OFA3A4836E.5462294A-ON85256C5A.0058E952@sealedair.com>

I am building a Rev app that reads CAD-like files (text based), and uses X
Y coordinates to visualize the drawing on screen.
This is being done by creating graphic lines, polygons, ovals, and
rectangles. It works perfectly except for one problem. Because the point of
origin (0,0) is at the top-left for Rev, and the CAD system uses
bottom-left, the drawings are flipped (mirrored) vertically on screen.

Is there a way to set the point of origin to a specific corner of the
screen before creating the graphics? Or is there some kind of  workaround?
It would be nice if a set of graphic objects could be grouped and then
mirrored. This has me stumped and my project will not work if the graphics
cannot be displayed correctly. Does anyone have an algorithm to mirror a
group of objects? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,
Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 22 11:59:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Oct 22 11:59:01 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <p05100300b9db29e0632f@[10.0.1.202]>
Message-ID: <B9DAD0BC.1EA76%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

> I have 31142 items to keep track of and I wonder what the best approach
> would be to store them. Each item should have an equal number of fields,
> just a few, with not much text data in each. I could make a comma delimited
> field with 31142 lines, a stack with 31142 cards or a database with 31142
> records. I need to sort them in several ways and I wonder what the fastest
> way is to store and access the data. Any suggestions? What are the benefits
> of each solution?

Sorting is fastest in one contiguous chunk, but locating, adding, and
deleting specific lines is much faster in an array.

Fortunately you can use both interchangeably, thanks to the split and
combine commands.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Tue Oct 22 12:00:02 2002
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Tue Oct 22 12:00:02 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <18EF98A2-E5D8-11D6-9787-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
References: <18EF98A2-E5D8-11D6-9787-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100309b9db328bc005@[188.9.94.76]>

At 10:05 AM -0600 10/22/02, Dar Scott wrote:
>On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 09:18 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:
>
>> I could make a comma delimited
>> field with 31142 lines, a stack with 31142 cards or a database with 31142
>> records.
>
>Is there a particular reason why arrays are not on your list?  Does this mean you have no field (combination) that is unique?  Are there operations you need that arrays can't do well?
>
>I'm not really advocating arrays.  I'm too green to do that.  It's just I wouldn't have thrown out arrays as candidates.

It's borderline, but I'd go with text/arrays. A stack with 30,000 cards will be painfully slow to open. A database is also an option, but as long as a restriction to new-ish hardware isn't an issue, I'd probably stick with text/arrays.
-- 

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 22 12:01:37 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Oct 22 12:01:37 2002
Subject: Specifying a point of origin
In-Reply-To: <OFA3A4836E.5462294A-ON85256C5A.0058E952@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <B9DAD10D.1EA77%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> 
> I am building a Rev app that reads CAD-like files (text based), and uses X
> Y coordinates to visualize the drawing on screen.
> This is being done by creating graphic lines, polygons, ovals, and
> rectangles. It works perfectly except for one problem. Because the point of
> origin (0,0) is at the top-left for Rev, and the CAD system uses
> bottom-left, the drawings are flipped (mirrored) vertically on screen.
> 
> Is there a way to set the point of origin to a specific corner of the
> screen before creating the graphics? Or is there some kind of  workaround?

This is a common challenge with computer graphics, as pretty much all screen
coordunate systems have 0,0 in the upper left of the content region of a
window.

Probably the simplest approch would be to subtract the y coordinate from the
height of the stack for each point -- could be done in a loop fairly
quickly.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Tue Oct 22 12:21:01 2002
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Tue Oct 22 12:21:01 2002
Subject: Specifying a point of origin
Message-ID: <OF182512BE.B953120A-ON85256C5A.005E6E0F@sealedair.com>

> Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
>> ... the point of origin (0,0) is at the top-left for Rev, and the CAD
system uses
>> bottom-left, the drawings are flipped (mirrored) vertically on screen.
>>
>> Is there a way to set the point of origin to a specific corner of the
>> screen before creating the graphics? Or is there some kind of
workaround?

Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
> This is a common challenge with computer graphics, as pretty much all
screen
> coordunate systems have 0,0 in the upper left of the content region of a
> window.
>
> Probably the simplest approch would be to subtract the y coordinate from
the
> height of the stack for each point -- could be done in a loop fairly
> quickly.

Thanks Richard!  That did the trick. I should have figured that one out,
but you know how it is after the 12th hour of writing code.

Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com





From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Oct 22 12:32:03 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue Oct 22 12:32:03 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <p05100300b9db29e0632f@[10.0.1.202]>
References: <B9DB38F1.1615%terry@discovery.nl>
 <p05100300b9db29e0632f@[10.0.1.202]>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9db3306db07@[216.229.107.53]>

>>I have 31142 items to keep track of and I wonder what the best approach
>>would be to store them. Each item should have an equal number of fields,
>>just a few, with not much text data in each. I could make a comma delimited
>>field with 31142 lines, a stack with 31142 cards or a database with 31142
>>records. I need to sort them in several ways and I wonder what the fastest
>>way is to store and access the data. Any suggestions? What are the benefits
>>of each solution?
>>
>>Terry
>>
>
>
>A field !!!!

Hi Terry,

If you need to sort the items, Yves is right: it's the only solution 
of the three that treats the items as a group.

However there is also the alternative of creating multiple indexes to 
the cards or db records, which points one to the specific item 
instead of all 31 thousand.

If I were making the choice I would consider:

* How many sorts or indexes are required?

* How dynamic is the data once captured?

* Does the user spend more time dealing with a few individual items 
or dealing with the entire 31 thou?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Oct 22 12:33:37 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue Oct 22 12:33:37 2002
Subject: SDB Databases Now LAN Savvy
Message-ID: <a05100302b9db358370a3@[216.229.107.53]>

Hi All,

Serendipity Library Update 20021021 is now available at 
http://www.oenolog.com/ftp/serendipity_downloader.htm

In this update a stack's sdbFile property maintains the full path to 
the database and openSDBFile logic will now search the calling 
stack's folder and (on Windows platforms) 
specialFolderPath("Documents") before prompting the user to find a 
missing database.

This was done (a) to prevent an application from losing its db if the 
folder they resided in is moved or renamed and (b) to deal with 
thoses Windows installations where the folder containing the calling 
app cannot be updated by the user.

A little serendipity (my favorite thing in life) came out of this 
update as well: SDBs can now be accessed over LANs and will support 
multi-user, read-only access.

This update is backward-compatible--openSDBFile will automatically 
update calling stacks & SDB's whose sdbFile property is not a full 
path name.

If you have previously downloaded a Serendipity Library file bundle, 
you need only download & decompress Serendipity Library.rev.sgz and 
English Reference Text.sdb.sgz.

A future update will remove the restriction that Serendipity 
Library.rev reside in the same folder as the calling 
stack/standalone, as this potentially prohibits Windows users from 
loading or creating new message translation files.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 22 12:53:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 22 12:53:01 2002
Subject: Specifying a point of origin
In-Reply-To: <OFA3A4836E.5462294A-ON85256C5A.0058E952@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <3BF173A0-E5E6-11D6-9787-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 10:31 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com 
wrote:

> Does anyone have an algorithm to mirror a
> group of objects? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Do you mean group as in a Revolution group object as in a collection in 
general?

Dar



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 22 12:57:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 22 12:57:01 2002
Subject: Specifying a point of origin
In-Reply-To: <B9DAD10D.1EA77%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BB7B2035-E5E6-11D6-9787-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 10:55 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Probably the simplest approch would be to subtract the y coordinate from 
> the
> height of the stack for each point -- could be done in a loop fairly
> quickly.

Will Revolution allow the top to be below the bottom?  If so, that's great!

(How does that poem by The Reluctant Dragon go?)

Dar



From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Oct 22 12:57:56 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue Oct 22 12:57:56 2002
Subject: SDB Databases Now LAN Savvy
In-Reply-To: <a05100302b9db358370a3@[216.229.107.53]>
References: <a05100302b9db358370a3@[216.229.107.53]>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9db3ff3e477@[216.229.107.171]>

>A future update will remove the restriction that Serendipity 
>Library.rev reside in the same folder as the calling stack/standalone

On Windows platforms only, with the only option being 
specialFolderPath("Documents")
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 22 13:01:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 22 13:01:01 2002
Subject: Specifying a point of origin
In-Reply-To: <OF182512BE.B953120A-ON85256C5A.005E6E0F@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <617A153E-E5E7-11D6-9787-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 11:16 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com 
wrote:

>> Probably the simplest approch would be to
>> subtract the y coordinate from the
>> height of the stack for each point -- could be done in a loop fairly
>> quickly.
>
> Thanks Richard!  That did the trick. I should have figured that one out,
> but you know how it is after the 12th hour of writing code.

I don't understand why this works.  Are all shapes symmetrical up and down?

Dar



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Oct 22 13:22:00 2002
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Tue Oct 22 13:22:00 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <B9DB38F1.1615%terry@discovery.nl>
Message-ID: <B9DAE701.5F12%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 10/22/02 8:18 AM, Terry Vogelaar at terry at discovery.nl wrote:

> I have 31142 items to keep track of and I wonder what the best approach
> would be to store them. Each item should have an equal number of fields,
> just a few, with not much text data in each. I could make a comma delimited
> field with 31142 lines, a stack with 31142 cards or a database with 31142
> records. I need to sort them in several ways and I wonder what the fastest
> way is to store and access the data. Any suggestions? What are the benefits
> of each solution?
----------
Terry,

Your question is a little confusing. First you say you have 31142 items,
then you say each item should have an equal number of fields.

This implies you have several separate text "items" for each item.

Both _search criteria_ (what 'ways' will you want to sort on) and _content_
must be known before you can decide on preferences for setting up any
system.

1) If you don't need to categorize, a single field (scrolling I assume)
might be the fastest way to find and sort, but the mechanics of scrolling
through a field with that many lines will likely be painfully slow. Also,
will you be adding lines? If so, where? In other words, you may need to take
editing features into account.

2) If there is any chance you will want to add other data, you should
consider the stack of cards. You will have more space to work with, and all
the data is still searchable.

3) If you will want to categorize, you should consider a main stack with
substacks. This way you can set up a table of contents and/or index, and/or
several different search methods, and set it up to sort or edit each
substack separately, which, in this case, would be faster than searching and
sorting the whole list.

4) Develop a stack with a search-sort-edit engine that can modify results
and can, itself, be modified, as a front-end UI, to access external data
stacks or files. This way, you can bring in the data and sort, search,
and/or edit however you like without affecting the original data until you
save it back. This may be the slowest, but it allows for easy backup, more
security, and an ability to modify the operating stack features without
affecting the data.

HTH,
Ken N. 





From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Oct 22 13:22:20 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue Oct 22 13:22:20 2002
Subject: Specifying a point of origin
In-Reply-To: <617A153E-E5E7-11D6-9787-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <335E46D5-E5EA-11D6-9787-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 11:54 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 11:16 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com 
> wrote:
>
>>> Probably the simplest approch would be to
>>> subtract the y coordinate from the
>>> height of the stack for each point -- could be done in a loop fairly
>>> quickly.
>>
>> Thanks Richard!  That did the trick. I should have figured that one out,
>> but you know how it is after the 12th hour of writing code.
>
> I don't understand why this works.  Are all shapes symmetrical up and down?

I should learn how to read.  Richard clearly wrote "point" and I read 
"location".

Never mind.

Dar



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Oct 22 13:35:01 2002
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Tue Oct 22 13:35:01 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <18EF98A2-E5D8-11D6-9787-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <B9DAE9DB.5F13%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 10/22/02 9:05 AM, Dar Scott at dsc at swcp.com wrote:

> 
> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 09:18 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:
> 
>> I could make a comma delimited
>> field with 31142 lines, a stack with 31142 cards or a database with 31142
>> records.
> 
> Is there a particular reason why arrays are not on your list?  Does this
> mean you have no field (combination) that is unique?  Are there operations
> you need that arrays can't do well?
> 
> I'm not really advocating arrays.  I'm too green to do that.  It's just I
> wouldn't have thrown out arrays as candidates.
----------
Arrays would work for indexing or searching, but not for storage. When you
close, variable contents are not saved.

All the best,
Ken N.



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Tue Oct 22 13:36:00 2002
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Tue Oct 22 13:36:00 2002
Subject: Specifying a point of origin
Message-ID: <OF1BD70634.41C16C8D-ON85256C5A.00650D61@sealedair.com>

>>> Probably the simplest approch would be to
>>> subtract the y coordinate from the
>>> height of the stack for each point -- could be done in a loop fairly
>>> quickly.
>>
>> Thanks Richard!  That did the trick. I should have figured that one out,
>> but you know how it is after the 12th hour of writing code.
>
> I don't understand why this works.  Are all shapes symmetrical up and
down?
>
> Dar

Basically, it's like flipping a sheet of paper over from top to bottom. The
top-left is 0,0 and the bottom-left is 0,600. A point located at 0,100
(closer to the top) is now at 0,500 (closer to the bottom) because
600-100=500. No, the shapes are going in every possible direction. That's
what makes this little trick so cool!

Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 22 14:08:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Oct 22 14:08:01 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <B9DAE9DB.5F13%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <B9DAEEEF.1EA94%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:

> on 10/22/02 9:05 AM, Dar Scott at dsc at swcp.com wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 09:18 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:
>> 
>>> I could make a comma delimited
>>> field with 31142 lines, a stack with 31142 cards or a database with 31142
>>> records.
>> 
>> Is there a particular reason why arrays are not on your list?  Does this
>> mean you have no field (combination) that is unique?  Are there operations
>> you need that arrays can't do well?
>> 
>> I'm not really advocating arrays.  I'm too green to do that.  It's just I
>> wouldn't have thrown out arrays as candidates.
> ----------
> Arrays would work for indexing or searching, but not for storage. When you
> close, variable contents are not saved.

You can save them as properties in an object.
One more reason I love using stack files for data storage.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From mike at cyber-ny.com  Tue Oct 22 14:32:01 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Tue Oct 22 14:32:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
In-Reply-To: <OF182512BE.B953120A-ON85256C5A.005E6E0F@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <B9DB1E6B.CB77%mike@cyber-ny.com>

Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from Rev in Win
and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder and grab
files while still in the Rev app.

Thanks,
Mike



From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Oct 22 15:08:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue Oct 22 15:08:01 2002
Subject: SDB Databases Now LAN Savvy
Message-ID: <a05100300b9db5dee1312@[216.229.107.76]>

>A future update will remove the restriction that Serendipity 
>Library.rev reside in the same folder as the calling stack/standalone

On further reflection, I realized the Library can be anywhere any 
developer wants to put it: it's up to her/his stack/standalone to 
find it.

The only changes I needed to make were in the preOpenStack handlers 
in SDB Utilities.rev & Serendipity Reference.rev; so I did it and 
updated the update.

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Oct 22 18:09:01 2002
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Tue Oct 22 18:09:01 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <B9DAEEEF.1EA94%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B9DB2A3C.5F32%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 10/22/02 12:02 PM, Richard Gaskin at ambassador at fourthworld.com wrote:

> Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:
> 
>> on 10/22/02 9:05 AM, Dar Scott at dsc at swcp.com wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 09:18 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I could make a comma delimited
>>>> field with 31142 lines, a stack with 31142 cards or a database with 31142
>>>> records.
>>> 
>>> Is there a particular reason why arrays are not on your list?  Does this
>>> mean you have no field (combination) that is unique?  Are there operations
>>> you need that arrays can't do well?
>>> 
>>> I'm not really advocating arrays.  I'm too green to do that.  It's just I
>>> wouldn't have thrown out arrays as candidates.
>> ----------
>> Arrays would work for indexing or searching, but not for storage. When you
>> close, variable contents are not saved.
> 
> You can save them as properties in an object.
> One more reason I love using stack files for data storage.
----------
Now there's something I didn't expect. I like it. Yea Rev!

Now I'm interested too. I'm also a fan of using data stacks, but they do
have some drawbacks.

I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing this. How does it work? How do you
efficiently search and edit object properties?

I haven't tried a 'find' in Rev, but in HC it's very fast in fields across a
stack. If you have some kind of idea where you're going, you can use it with
indexes. I've never seen an array search that even comes close.

TIA,
Ken N.







From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct 22 18:19:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue Oct 22 18:19:01 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <B9DB2A3C.5F32%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <B9DB53C3.15ACA%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/22/02 7:15 PM, "Ken Norris (dialup)" <pixelbird at interisland.net>
wrote:

> I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing this. How does it work? How do you
> efficiently search and edit object properties?

Why make it hard? Move the content of the custom property into your
container of choice for searching and editing... then move it back before
saving.

-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From mike at cyber-ny.com  Tue Oct 22 18:29:01 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Tue Oct 22 18:29:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev with Externals
In-Reply-To: <OF182512BE.B953120A-ON85256C5A.005E6E0F@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <B9DB5613.CB99%mike@cyber-ny.com>

Anyone know an external available for opening a folder (directory) from Rev
in Win and/or Mac OS?  I have the Xworld Externals Collection but the
Purchase method no longer works... so I can't register the collection.

I had purchased it 2 years ago but some how it has become "un-registered".

Thanks,
Mike



From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct 22 18:38:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue Oct 22 18:38:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev with Externals
In-Reply-To: <B9DB5613.CB99%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <B9DB5846.15AD1%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/22/02 7:22 PM, "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com> wrote:

> Anyone know an external available for opening a folder (directory) from Rev
> in Win and/or Mac OS?  I have the Xworld Externals Collection but the
> Purchase method no longer works... so I can't register the collection.

Mike,

I don't understand - for what purpose are you opening the folder... this is
something pretty easy to do in Rev, so I'm wondering what you are trying to
accomplish. When you say "open" what exactly do you mean?


-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From mike at cyber-ny.com  Tue Oct 22 18:51:01 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Tue Oct 22 18:51:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev with Externals
In-Reply-To: <B9DB5846.15AD1%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <B9DB5B19.CB9F%mike@cyber-ny.com>

I'm burning a CD-ROM that will contain a Rev Stack/app as the Table of
Contents Page.  The Stack will list a directory of folders on the CD - each
folder containing documents.  The CD will contain various folders containing
documents.  I want to be able to click on button within my Rev Stack and
open a particular folder on the CD so that the documents may be manually
dragged to the Hard Drive.

I do hope it is easy to do... I just can't find the method.

Thanks,
Mike

> From: Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:32:22 -0400
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev with Externals
> 
> On 10/22/02 7:22 PM, "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com> wrote:
> 
>> Anyone know an external available for opening a folder (directory) from Rev
>> in Win and/or Mac OS?  I have the Xworld Externals Collection but the
>> Purchase method no longer works... so I can't register the collection.
> 
> Mike,
> 
> I don't understand - for what purpose are you opening the folder... this is
> something pretty easy to do in Rev, so I'm wondering what you are trying to
> accomplish. When you say "open" what exactly do you mean?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> www.rpsystems.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Oct 22 19:01:00 2002
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Tue Oct 22 19:01:00 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <B9DB53C3.15ACA%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <B9DB3672.5F37%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 10/22/02 4:13 PM, Troy Rollins at troy at rpsystems.net wrote:

> On 10/22/02 7:15 PM, "Ken Norris (dialup)" <pixelbird at interisland.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing this. How does it work? How do you
>> efficiently search and edit object properties?
> 
> Why make it hard? Move the content of the custom property into your
> container of choice for searching and editing... then move it back before
> saving.
----------
Indeed. That's the way I would do it, but how fast would such a move happen?
Would it be worth the wait, or should the data just be kept in a field?

If all you want to do is search, sort, and edit, i.e., no complicted
manipulation, calculations, or special uses made of the data, then a field
would surely suffice, as Yves says, because it's just a list.

However, if Terry wants to categorize or otherwise index the data, or if a
UI is needed to operate on the data, then the picture changes.

All the best,
Ken N.



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Tue Oct 22 19:09:00 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Tue Oct 22 19:09:00 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <B9DB53C3.15ACA%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <D25FF935-E61A-11D6-8A03-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Wednesday, Oct 23, 2002, at 09:13 Australia/Sydney, Troy Rollins 
wrote:

> On 10/22/02 7:15 PM, "Ken Norris (dialup)" <pixelbird at interisland.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing this. How does it work? How 
>> do you
>> efficiently search and edit object properties?
>
> Why make it hard? Move the content of the custom property into your
> container of choice for searching and editing... then move it back 
> before
> saving.

This thread has been an interesting discussion. It is a similar problem 
to that I raised recently, for about one tenth the records but more 
fields each, and the outcome confirms both the direction I was taking 
from that earlier thread and also the ease with which I will ultimately 
be able to do what at first looked a daunting conversion. In fact, even 
though it will be done in a list/stack paradigm, the data set will be 
much closer to a Normal Form than was ever the case in HC, and most of 
my old data management and integrity routines can disappear 
accordingly. Thanks everyone, for the list and for the product.

regards
David
>
> -- 
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Oct 22 19:49:00 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue Oct 22 19:49:00 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev with Externals
In-Reply-To: <B9DB5B19.CB9F%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <B9DB3ED9.4B50%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Mike Brown"  wrote:

> I'm burning a CD-ROM that will contain a Rev Stack/app as the Table of
> Contents Page.  The Stack will list a directory of folders on the CD - each
> folder containing documents.  The CD will contain various folders containing
> documents.  I want to be able to click on button within my Rev Stack and
> open a particular folder on the CD so that the documents may be manually
> dragged to the Hard Drive.
> 
> I do hope it is easy to do... I just can't find the method.

One way to do this might be to use the Externals Collection on the RunRev
site.  Within the collection of commands is one that opens a file as if
double-clicking it.  This might work with a folder as well.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From mike at cyber-ny.com  Tue Oct 22 20:11:01 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Tue Oct 22 20:11:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev with Externals
In-Reply-To: <B9DB3ED9.4B50%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <B9DB6E0B.4CA5%mike@cyber-ny.com>

The Externals collection on the RunRev site appears to be somewhat
limited... it only has several features and I don't see the "Open File" as
one of them.  The older MetaCard Externals collection does have the "Open
File" feature but the purchase method is no longer valid.  It points to the
old XWorlds web site.

- Mike


on 10/22/02 8:43 PM, Scott Rossi at scott at tactilemedia.com wrote:

> Recently, "Mike Brown"  wrote:
> 
>> I'm burning a CD-ROM that will contain a Rev Stack/app as the Table of
>> Contents Page.  The Stack will list a directory of folders on the CD - each
>> folder containing documents.  The CD will contain various folders containing
>> documents.  I want to be able to click on button within my Rev Stack and
>> open a particular folder on the CD so that the documents may be manually
>> dragged to the Hard Drive.
>> 
>> I do hope it is easy to do... I just can't find the method.
> 
> One way to do this might be to use the Externals Collection on the RunRev
> site.  Within the collection of commands is one that opens a file as if
> double-clicking it.  This might work with a folder as well.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From kkaufman at snet.net  Tue Oct 22 20:29:00 2002
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Tue Oct 22 20:29:00 2002
Subject: QT controller not responding to clicks
Message-ID: <008C97F6-E626-11D6-8DB3-0003936D1F12@snet.net>

For some reason, in only one of my stacks, the QT controller does not 
respond to mouseclicks. It must be something in my script, since if I 
create a new stack, add a player, associate it with a movie file, and 
start it, I can pause the movie, adjust the volume, etc. with no 
problem. I have compared the properties of the players that respond, 
and those that don't, and I don't see a difference.  Is there something 
in general that can cause this to happen?

-Kurt



From terry at discovery.nl  Wed Oct 23 00:33:01 2002
From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Wed Oct 23 00:33:01 2002
Subject: 31142 lines/cards/records
In-Reply-To: <B9DAE701.5F12%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <B9DBFFB5.18517%terry@discovery.nl>

>> I have 31142 items to keep track of and I wonder what the best approach
>> would be to store them. Each item should have an equal number of fields,
>> just a few, with not much text data in each. I could make a comma delimited
>> field with 31142 lines, a stack with 31142 cards or a database with 31142
>> records. I need to sort them in several ways and I wonder what the fastest
>> way is to store and access the data. Any suggestions? What are the benefits
>> of each solution?
> 
> Your question is a little confusing. First you say you have 31142 items,
> then you say each item should have an equal number of fields.
> 
> This implies you have several separate text "items" for each item.

Sorry about the confustion. I didn't mean text items, but I had to give it a
name. Maybe 'units' would have been better, because that doesn't mean
anything in transcript (as far as I know). I meaned if for those units lines
would be the right solution (which seems to be according to the good
responce several of you gave; thank you all), those 'fields' would be text
items. Otherwise it would have become a stack with cards and fields or a
database with records and fields.

> Both _search criteria_ (what 'ways' will you want to sort on) and _content_
> must be known before you can decide on preferences for setting up any
> system.
> 
> If you don't need to categorize, a single field (scrolling I assume)
> might be the fastest way to find and sort, but the mechanics of scrolling
> through a field with that many lines will likely be painfully slow. Also,
> will you be adding lines? If so, where? In other words, you may need to take
> editing features into account.

The users will not see the data as a whole, but the script presents the
units one by one, alters some data and changes that line of data.

Thanks for the help you all.

Terry




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 23 02:48:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 23 02:48:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
References: <B9DB1E6B.CB77%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <008501c27a67$1e6a0540$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Mike,

You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it on
Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little sneaky as it
takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be posting this
tip on my site tomorrow
(http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009) as my FTP
server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:

on mouseUp
  answer folder "Get a folder:"
  if it <> "" then
    OpenFolder it
  end if
end mouseUp

on OpenFolder pPath
  switch (the platform)
  case "Win32"
    create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
    set the hideConsoleWindows to true
    get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
    delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
    break
  case "MacOS"
    if the systemVersion >= 10 then
      get shell("open " & pPath)
    else
      put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
        "activate" & cr & \
        "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
        "end tell" into tScript
      do tScript as AppleScript
    end if
    break
  end switch
end OpenFolder

Enjoy!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
Subject: Opening folders from Rev


> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from Rev in Win
> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder and grab
> files while still in the Rev app.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 23 03:17:01 2002
From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed Oct 23 03:17:01 2002
Subject: Bug in Independent Study App?
Message-ID: <a05200a29b9dc09e86a16@[63.205.23.218]>

I have been running through the Independent Study tutorial again to 
refresh my memory on a few points. I noted this before but I don't 
recall if I reported it or if it's been reported earlier. But a 
tutorial really needs to *work* correctly to be useful and this one 
doesn't.

One minor problem. When you add a new picture to the stack by 
clicking on the button where images are displayed, the stack does not 
return to run mode. It is left in editing mode. Clearly not great 
design.

The bigger problem is that on my OS X system at least, I cannot get 
the images to "stick." I load an image, then I go to another card and 
load an image. (I'm using the technique of clicking on the button 
where the image is supposed to go, then selecting the image.) No 
matter what I do, I can only get one image into the stack/app at one 
time. The last one I load displays. All the others fail to do so.

This has been around a while. Someone really needs to fix it!
-- 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.danshafer.com
831-392-1127 Voice - 831-401-2531 Fax


From Mike at Doub.com  Wed Oct 23 07:32:01 2002
From: Mike at Doub.com (Mike Doub)
Date: Wed Oct 23 07:32:01 2002
Subject: Dynamic Animation
Message-ID: <LOBBKHHMGNHFHNPEJJLBIECFCNAA.Mike@Doub.com>

Is there anyway to build animations dynamically?   I am trying to figure out
if I can do animations similar to what is being done within "theBrain".
Check out this web site and see how the animation looks:
http://www.thebrain.com.  The effect is similar to having "fields" pasted
onto a ball and you rotate the ball by clicking on a field and causing that
field to move to the center of the display.  All of the other "fields" shift
to their new location relative to the new centered "field".

If there is no programmatic interface that will allow animations to be built
on the fly I am then going to be looking for suggestions as to how one might
try doing animations without the animation manager?

Thanks in advance,
   Mike




From matt.denton at limelight.com.au  Wed Oct 23 07:59:01 2002
From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton)
Date: Wed Oct 23 07:59:01 2002
Subject: Anyone Interested in my 'Jump Scripts' Tool?
In-Reply-To: <200210211423.KAA17133@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <64EF70CF-E686-11D6-B62A-000393924880@limelight.com.au>

Hey-ya List

Thanks for the great response to my request!  I've been hard at work to  
tidy up a few things, ended up adding more features and found a few  
niggly bugs that I'm just sorting out now.

I had promised a Mac version tonight my time, but looks like tomorrow  
night.  Sorry for not responding to each of you separately (those who  
requested to be in on the loop). Anyway thanks, it's comin'!

Cheers

M@
Matt Denton

> Hey-ya all
>
> One of the tools I've built for my own development is called Jump
> Scripts.  I use it all the time and it is perhaps the most useful
> development tool I've made to date.  What does it do?  It lets you jump
> immediately to any script in any stack, card or object very very
> quickly.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -
> Here are the features:
>
> 	Jump to any script in any open stack via the keyboard;
> 	Jump through the stack hierarchy via keyboard: stack>card>objects;
> 	Edit script or property via keyboard;
> 	Filter out objects (say only view buttons) via keyboard;
> 	Displays if a stack, card or object has a script;
> 	Close a stack script or property window via keyboard;
> 	Bring focus on 'Jump Scripts' or minimize via the keyboard;
> 	Hide or show Rev stacks in the list.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -
>
> Would anyone be interested in this tool?   I'll release it for free as
> a service to all the kind people on the list, if there is interest.  It
> is only built for OSX at the moment but I'll build and test for OS9 and
> Windows if there is interest. I'd also appreciate any feedback and
> testing (this will be beta 0.5).
>
> PLEASE RESPOND if you think you'd like this tool.




From bvlahos at mac.com  Wed Oct 23 08:39:01 2002
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Wed Oct 23 08:39:01 2002
Subject: Flow text to multiple fields
Message-ID: <C0885630-E68B-11D6-B808-003065EC5590@mac.com>

I have some text which isn't very wide so I want to flow it from one 
field to another (and others in a chain) but I don't see how to do it 
in Revolution. It needs to be one contiguous flow so that users can 
insert information anywhere and the text will automatically reflow.

As simple example of what I want to do is to have two columns (fields) 
on a card. Text is entered into the first column and when it gets to 
the bottom of the column it simply flows to the next one.

Thanks,
Bill Vlahos



From mike at cyber-ny.com  Wed Oct 23 08:50:01 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Wed Oct 23 08:50:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
In-Reply-To: <B9DBF7EE.4CDA%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <B9DC1FEB.CBAC%mike@cyber-ny.com>

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I am
implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X and 9.2 for
Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script accurately
selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but nothing happens
after that.  Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Mike


> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> Mike,
> 
> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it on
> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little sneaky as it
> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be posting this
> tip on my site tomorrow
> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009) as my FTP
> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:
> 
> on mouseUp
> answer folder "Get a folder:"
> if it <> "" then
> OpenFolder it
> end if
> end mouseUp
> 
> on OpenFolder pPath
> switch (the platform)
> case "Win32"
> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
> break
> case "MacOS"
> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
> get shell("open " & pPath)
> else
> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
> "activate" & cr & \
> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
> "end tell" into tScript
> do tScript as AppleScript
> end if
> break
> end switch
> end OpenFolder
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> 
>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from Rev in Win
>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder and grab
>> files while still in the Rev app.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 23 08:55:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed Oct 23 08:55:01 2002
Subject: Flow text to multiple fields
In-Reply-To: <C0885630-E68B-11D6-B808-003065EC5590@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20021023134958.75750.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Bill Vlahos <bvlahos at mac.com> wrote:
> I have some text which isn't very wide so I want to
> flow it from one 
> field to another (and others in a chain) but I don't
> see how to do it 
> in Revolution. It needs to be one contiguous flow so
> that users can 
> insert information anywhere and the text will
> automatically reflow.
> 
> As simple example of what I want to do is to have
> two columns (fields) 
> on a card. Text is entered into the first column and
> when it gets to 
> the bottom of the column it simply flows to the next
> one.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bill Vlahos
> 


Hi Bill,

Off the top of my head, you might want to take a look
at the 'formattedHeight' property. The change the
script of the first field to something like:

on keyDown pWhichKey
  send "checkMyHeight" to me in 5 milliseconds
  pass keyDown
end keyDown

on checkMyHeight
  if the formattedHeight of me > the height of me then
    put line -1 of me & return before field "overFlow"
    delete line -1 of me
    select after line 1 of field "overFlow"
  end if
end checkMyHeight

This suggestion needs a bit more work and testing, but
might just do the trick or put you on the right track
(I hope).

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 23 11:00:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 23 11:00:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
References: <B9DC1FEB.CBAC%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <00a101c27aab$ea591c60$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Mike,

I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the "open folder"
part of the applescript:

"open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr

Try that and let me know,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev


> Hi Ken,
>
> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I am
> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X and 9.2 for
> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script accurately
> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but nothing happens
> after that.  Any other ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it on
> > Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little sneaky as it
> > takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be posting
this
> > tip on my site tomorrow
> > (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009) as my
FTP
> > server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:
> >
> > on mouseUp
> > answer folder "Get a folder:"
> > if it <> "" then
> > OpenFolder it
> > end if
> > end mouseUp
> >
> > on OpenFolder pPath
> > switch (the platform)
> > case "Win32"
> > create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
> > set the hideConsoleWindows to true
> > get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
> > delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
> > break
> > case "MacOS"
> > if the systemVersion >= 10 then
> > get shell("open " & pPath)
> > else
> > put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
> > "activate" & cr & \
> > "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
> > "end tell" into tScript
> > do tScript as AppleScript
> > end if
> > break
> > end switch
> > end OpenFolder
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > Ken Ray
> > Sons of Thunder Software
> > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
> > Subject: Opening folders from Rev
> >
> >
> >> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from Rev in
Win
> >> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder and
grab
> >> files while still in the Rev app.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From mike at cyber-ny.com  Wed Oct 23 12:27:01 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Wed Oct 23 12:27:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
In-Reply-To: <00a101c27aab$ea591c60$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <B9DC52A5.CBD9%mike@cyber-ny.com>

Hi Ken,

Still no luck.  I tried it on Mac OS 9.2, OSX and Win 98... no luck on all
fronts.  I also tried minimizing the script for each specific OS to avoid
mistakes but still no luck.

On Mac OS 9.2 the script does bring the Finder to the front but then nothing
else happens.  I created a test fld for the script and it is adding the
appropriate path to the folder a sending the AppleScript message.

- Mike


> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0500
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> Mike,
> 
> I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the "open folder"
> part of the applescript:
> 
> "open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr
> 
> Try that and let me know,
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> 
>> Hi Ken,
>> 
>> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I am
>> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X and 9.2 for
>> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script accurately
>> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but nothing happens
>> after that.  Any other ideas?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>> 
>>> Mike,
>>> 
>>> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it on
>>> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little sneaky as it
>>> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be posting
> this
>>> tip on my site tomorrow
>>> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009) as my
> FTP
>>> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:
>>> 
>>> on mouseUp
>>> answer folder "Get a folder:"
>>> if it <> "" then
>>> OpenFolder it
>>> end if
>>> end mouseUp
>>> 
>>> on OpenFolder pPath
>>> switch (the platform)
>>> case "Win32"
>>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
>>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
>>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
>>> break
>>> case "MacOS"
>>> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
>>> get shell("open " & pPath)
>>> else
>>> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
>>> "activate" & cr & \
>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
>>> "end tell" into tScript
>>> do tScript as AppleScript
>>> end if
>>> break
>>> end switch
>>> end OpenFolder
>>> 
>>> Enjoy!
>>> 
>>> Ken Ray
>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
>>> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from Rev in
> Win
>>>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder and
> grab
>>>> files while still in the Rev app.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 23 12:38:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 23 12:38:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
References: <B9DC52A5.CBD9%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <00a601c27ab9$9baf2380$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Mike,

Try putting the script into Apple's Script editor (sans all the Transcript
stuff) and see if it works from there:

-- Suppose your hard disk is named "Macintosh HD"

tell application "Finder"
  activate
  open folder "Macintosh HD"
end tell

If this doesn't work, let me know...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev


> Hi Ken,
>
> Still no luck.  I tried it on Mac OS 9.2, OSX and Win 98... no luck on all
> fronts.  I also tried minimizing the script for each specific OS to avoid
> mistakes but still no luck.
>
> On Mac OS 9.2 the script does bring the Finder to the front but then
nothing
> else happens.  I created a test fld for the script and it is adding the
> appropriate path to the folder a sending the AppleScript message.
>
> - Mike
>
>
> > From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> > Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> > Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0500
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the "open
folder"
> > part of the applescript:
> >
> > "open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr
> >
> > Try that and let me know,
> >
> > Ken Ray
> > Sons of Thunder Software
> > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >
> >
> >> Hi Ken,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I am
> >> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X and 9.2
for
> >> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script
accurately
> >> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but nothing
happens
> >> after that.  Any other ideas?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>
> >>> Mike,
> >>>
> >>> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it on
> >>> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little sneaky as
it
> >>> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be posting
> > this
> >>> tip on my site tomorrow
> >>> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009) as my
> > FTP
> >>> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:
> >>>
> >>> on mouseUp
> >>> answer folder "Get a folder:"
> >>> if it <> "" then
> >>> OpenFolder it
> >>> end if
> >>> end mouseUp
> >>>
> >>> on OpenFolder pPath
> >>> switch (the platform)
> >>> case "Win32"
> >>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
> >>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
> >>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
> >>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
> >>> break
> >>> case "MacOS"
> >>> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
> >>> get shell("open " & pPath)
> >>> else
> >>> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
> >>> "activate" & cr & \
> >>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
> >>> "end tell" into tScript
> >>> do tScript as AppleScript
> >>> end if
> >>> break
> >>> end switch
> >>> end OpenFolder
> >>>
> >>> Enjoy!
> >>>
> >>> Ken Ray
> >>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
> >>> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from Rev
in
> > Win
> >>>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder and
> > grab
> >>>> files while still in the Rev app.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Mike
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From mike at cyber-ny.com  Wed Oct 23 13:18:00 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Wed Oct 23 13:18:00 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
In-Reply-To: <00a601c27ab9$9baf2380$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <B9DC5EC8.CBE5%mike@cyber-ny.com>

Ken,

When I run that script through the Apple Script Editor I get the following
execution error:

Finder got an Error: Can't get folder "Macintosh HD"

> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:28:31 -0500
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> Mike,
> 
> Try putting the script into Apple's Script editor (sans all the Transcript
> stuff) and see if it works from there:
> 
> -- Suppose your hard disk is named "Macintosh HD"
> 
> tell application "Finder"
> activate
> open folder "Macintosh HD"
> end tell
> 
> If this doesn't work, let me know...
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> 
>> Hi Ken,
>> 
>> Still no luck.  I tried it on Mac OS 9.2, OSX and Win 98... no luck on all
>> fronts.  I also tried minimizing the script for each specific OS to avoid
>> mistakes but still no luck.
>> 
>> On Mac OS 9.2 the script does bring the Finder to the front but then
> nothing
>> else happens.  I created a test fld for the script and it is adding the
>> appropriate path to the folder a sending the AppleScript message.
>> 
>> - Mike
>> 
>> 
>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0500
>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>> 
>>> Mike,
>>> 
>>> I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the "open
> folder"
>>> part of the applescript:
>>> 
>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr
>>> 
>>> Try that and let me know,
>>> 
>>> Ken Ray
>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I am
>>>> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X and 9.2
> for
>>>> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script
> accurately
>>>> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but nothing
> happens
>>>> after that.  Any other ideas?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mike,
>>>>> 
>>>>> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it on
>>>>> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little sneaky as
> it
>>>>> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be posting
>>> this
>>>>> tip on my site tomorrow
>>>>> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009) as my
>>> FTP
>>>>> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:
>>>>> 
>>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>> answer folder "Get a folder:"
>>>>> if it <> "" then
>>>>> OpenFolder it
>>>>> end if
>>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>> 
>>>>> on OpenFolder pPath
>>>>> switch (the platform)
>>>>> case "Win32"
>>>>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
>>>>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>>>>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
>>>>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
>>>>> break
>>>>> case "MacOS"
>>>>> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
>>>>> get shell("open " & pPath)
>>>>> else
>>>>> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
>>>>> "activate" & cr & \
>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
>>>>> "end tell" into tScript
>>>>> do tScript as AppleScript
>>>>> end if
>>>>> break
>>>>> end switch
>>>>> end OpenFolder
>>>>> 
>>>>> Enjoy!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
>>>>> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from Rev
> in
>>> Win
>>>>>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder and
>>> grab
>>>>>> files while still in the Rev app.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mike at cyber-ny.com  Wed Oct 23 13:43:01 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Wed Oct 23 13:43:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
In-Reply-To: <B9DC5EC8.CBE5%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <B9DC64A5.CBEC%mike@cyber-ny.com>

Ken,

I did find through trial and error that this Apple Script works from both
the Script Editor and my Rev Stack:

tell application "Finder"
activate
open folder "Users:cyberny:Desktop:MyFolder"
end tell


I found that replacing all "/" with ":" and eliminating the "Macintosh HD"
from the start of the path enabled the script to work.

Does that make sense??  I will test further but it seems to work.  I don't
know AppleScript so it's a bit sketchy.

Now I just need a Windows solution.

- Mike


> From: Mike Brown <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:12:25 -0400
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> Ken,
> 
> When I run that script through the Apple Script Editor I get the following
> execution error:
> 
> Finder got an Error: Can't get folder "Macintosh HD"
> 
>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:28:31 -0500
>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>> 
>> Mike,
>> 
>> Try putting the script into Apple's Script editor (sans all the Transcript
>> stuff) and see if it works from there:
>> 
>> -- Suppose your hard disk is named "Macintosh HD"
>> 
>> tell application "Finder"
>> activate
>> open folder "Macintosh HD"
>> end tell
>> 
>> If this doesn't work, let me know...
>> 
>> Ken Ray
>> Sons of Thunder Software
>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi Ken,
>>> 
>>> Still no luck.  I tried it on Mac OS 9.2, OSX and Win 98... no luck on all
>>> fronts.  I also tried minimizing the script for each specific OS to avoid
>>> mistakes but still no luck.
>>> 
>>> On Mac OS 9.2 the script does bring the Finder to the front but then
>> nothing
>>> else happens.  I created a test fld for the script and it is adding the
>>> appropriate path to the folder a sending the AppleScript message.
>>> 
>>> - Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0500
>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>> 
>>>> Mike,
>>>> 
>>>> I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the "open
>> folder"
>>>> part of the applescript:
>>>> 
>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr
>>>> 
>>>> Try that and let me know,
>>>> 
>>>> Ken Ray
>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I am
>>>>> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X and 9.2
>> for
>>>>> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script
>> accurately
>>>>> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but nothing
>> happens
>>>>> after that.  Any other ideas?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it on
>>>>>> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little sneaky as
>> it
>>>>>> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be posting
>>>> this
>>>>>> tip on my site tomorrow
>>>>>> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009) as my
>>>> FTP
>>>>>> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>>> answer folder "Get a folder:"
>>>>>> if it <> "" then
>>>>>> OpenFolder it
>>>>>> end if
>>>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> on OpenFolder pPath
>>>>>> switch (the platform)
>>>>>> case "Win32"
>>>>>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
>>>>>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>>>>>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
>>>>>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
>>>>>> break
>>>>>> case "MacOS"
>>>>>> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
>>>>>> get shell("open " & pPath)
>>>>>> else
>>>>>> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
>>>>>> "activate" & cr & \
>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
>>>>>> "end tell" into tScript
>>>>>> do tScript as AppleScript
>>>>>> end if
>>>>>> break
>>>>>> end switch
>>>>>> end OpenFolder
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Enjoy!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from Rev
>> in
>>>> Win
>>>>>>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder and
>>>> grab
>>>>>>> files while still in the Rev app.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 23 15:00:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 23 15:00:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
References: <B9DC64A5.CBEC%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <00b301c27acd$771340b0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Shoot... I forgot to put in the "/" to ":" conversion that appleScript
needs... thanks for catching this, Mike!

I've updated the code with a ConvertPath function in the tip at my site:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_file009

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev


> Ken,
>
> I did find through trial and error that this Apple Script works from both
> the Script Editor and my Rev Stack:
>
> tell application "Finder"
> activate
> open folder "Users:cyberny:Desktop:MyFolder"
> end tell
>
>
> I found that replacing all "/" with ":" and eliminating the "Macintosh HD"
> from the start of the path enabled the script to work.
>
> Does that make sense??  I will test further but it seems to work.  I don't
> know AppleScript so it's a bit sketchy.
>
> Now I just need a Windows solution.
>
> - Mike
>
>
> > From: Mike Brown <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> > Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:12:25 -0400
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > When I run that script through the Apple Script Editor I get the
following
> > execution error:
> >
> > Finder got an Error: Can't get folder "Macintosh HD"
> >
> >> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> >> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> >> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:28:31 -0500
> >> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> Try putting the script into Apple's Script editor (sans all the
Transcript
> >> stuff) and see if it works from there:
> >>
> >> -- Suppose your hard disk is named "Macintosh HD"
> >>
> >> tell application "Finder"
> >> activate
> >> open folder "Macintosh HD"
> >> end tell
> >>
> >> If this doesn't work, let me know...
> >>
> >> Ken Ray
> >> Sons of Thunder Software
> >> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:20 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi Ken,
> >>>
> >>> Still no luck.  I tried it on Mac OS 9.2, OSX and Win 98... no luck on
all
> >>> fronts.  I also tried minimizing the script for each specific OS to
avoid
> >>> mistakes but still no luck.
> >>>
> >>> On Mac OS 9.2 the script does bring the Finder to the front but then
> >> nothing
> >>> else happens.  I created a test fld for the script and it is adding
the
> >>> appropriate path to the folder a sending the AppleScript message.
> >>>
> >>> - Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> >>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0500
> >>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike,
> >>>>
> >>>> I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the "open
> >> folder"
> >>>> part of the applescript:
> >>>>
> >>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr
> >>>>
> >>>> Try that and let me know,
> >>>>
> >>>> Ken Ray
> >>>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Ken,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I am
> >>>>> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X and
9.2
> >> for
> >>>>> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script
> >> accurately
> >>>>> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but nothing
> >> happens
> >>>>> after that.  Any other ideas?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mike,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it
on
> >>>>>> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little sneaky
as
> >> it
> >>>>>> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be
posting
> >>>> this
> >>>>>> tip on my site tomorrow
> >>>>>> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009) as
my
> >>>> FTP
> >>>>>> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> on mouseUp
> >>>>>> answer folder "Get a folder:"
> >>>>>> if it <> "" then
> >>>>>> OpenFolder it
> >>>>>> end if
> >>>>>> end mouseUp
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> on OpenFolder pPath
> >>>>>> switch (the platform)
> >>>>>> case "Win32"
> >>>>>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
> >>>>>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
> >>>>>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
> >>>>>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
> >>>>>> break
> >>>>>> case "MacOS"
> >>>>>> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
> >>>>>> get shell("open " & pPath)
> >>>>>> else
> >>>>>> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
> >>>>>> "activate" & cr & \
> >>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
> >>>>>> "end tell" into tScript
> >>>>>> do tScript as AppleScript
> >>>>>> end if
> >>>>>> break
> >>>>>> end switch
> >>>>>> end OpenFolder
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Enjoy!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ken Ray
> >>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from
Rev
> >> in
> >>>> Win
> >>>>>>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder
and
> >>>> grab
> >>>>>>> files while still in the Rev app.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> Mike
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jplam at netrin.com  Wed Oct 23 16:32:00 2002
From: jplam at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Wed Oct 23 16:32:00 2002
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #793 - 5 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200210231901.PAA31603@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBICMMKLOIPMPOLALAIEFMEEAA.jplam@netrin.com>

Our digests are shorter and more readable if we quote only pertinent lines
when responding to posts.

Jim Lambert



From dan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 23 16:46:00 2002
From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed Oct 23 16:46:00 2002
Subject: RR and Host Scripting
Message-ID: <a05200a31b9dcc7b2e57e@[63.205.23.218]>

Where can I look for information on how, if at all, Rev would allow 
me to execute -- in a cross-platform way, preferably -- host scripts 
written in arbitrary other languages? For example, say I have a 
Python app that runs on OS X, OS 9, Windows, and *nix. But UI tools 
for  Python are primitive. So I want to create a cool UI in RR, and 
have it call these Python scripts.

On Mac, I'd use the OSA approach, on Windows the Windows Host 
Scripting, and on *nix presumably the shell.

In the realm of possibility? Or smoke?
-- 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.danshafer.com
831-392-1127 Voice - 831-401-2531 Fax


From dan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 23 17:50:00 2002
From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed Oct 23 17:50:00 2002
Subject: Independent Study Tutorial Help
Message-ID: <a05200a34b9dcd446d805@[63.205.23.218]>

Has *anyone* actually *worked through* and used the Independent Study 
tutorial that comes with Revolution?

On both OS X and Windows 2000, I'm experiencing serious difficulties 
with basic functionality. I'm willing to be told it's user error, but 
if I'm experiencing this, I wonder how many people run into it and 
just walk away from Rev.

Here's the *basic* issue I encounter.

1. Open the sample from the tutorial.
2. Choose the browse tool (it comes up in edit mode by default, which 
seems perhaps wrong)
3. Add a new record.
4. Give the new record a name and a title.
5. Click on the button where graphics go.
6. Choose a graphic.
7. The app is back in edit mode (clearly wrong and the script looks 
like it shouldn't leave it in this state, but I can't get it to do 
what it should).
8. Repeat steps 3-8.
9. Get back into browse mode.
10. Click on the name of the first person you added.
11. No picture.

It *appears* to be consistent: only the last picture you add "sticks."

I have been able to import the files from the sample database, 
associate pictures with each of them, add a new record, and get all 
of those images to stick. But if I quit the app and come back, the 
problems I just described return, either consistently or, in one case 
at least, in such a way that all the images stick except the last one 
added before the new one.

I've spent an hour or more with this today alone. It appears to me 
the problem lies in the trickiness of using a uImageID property in 
such a way that it gets slammed. When none of the pictures in the 
stack stick except the last one, inspecting the custom property of 
the getImage button in each card shows that each has the same value 
in that property.

I've also experienced two problems in the Application Overview in 
this tutorial and at no other time:

1. Click on the name associated with a card in the employee database. 
Then click on another name. Instead of seeing the new card's 
information in the window, a new window pops up with bizarre-looking 
debug information in it. There is some script code in this window 
that resets the name of the card from, e.g., Smith, Ted, to 
Smith/REVEXCLUDE01, Ted. This is important, apparently, because 
later, when I open the stack, that weird-looking name displays 
instead of the natural English name.

2. For no apparent reason, the right pane of the fully open AOV goes 
blank. Nothing I do gets it back. I have to quit Rev.

Anyone? Please tell me this is not my own insanity or lack of 
comprehension here. I have studied the scripts and I'm not getting 
anywhere fixing it.
-- 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
How smart do you work? What's your TQ (Time Quotient)?
Find out free in 2 minutes at http://www.thinktq.com/Results2002
Free one-year training course in your email box - $120 value
Get an insightful book written and published EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOU


From mike at cyber-ny.com  Wed Oct 23 18:12:00 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Wed Oct 23 18:12:00 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
In-Reply-To: <00b301c27acd$771340b0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <B9DCA39A.CC04%mike@cyber-ny.com>

Well... I can now open folders from a Rev App on the Mac OS thanks to Ken
Ray.

I thought I had a method for Windows using this method:

get shell("start " & MyFolderPath)

This works great from a Rev file but not from a Standalone (.exe).  For some
reason when I convert my stack to a standalone, this script no longer opens
my folder but launches another window with my standalone Application.  This
can go on and on until the screen is full of multiple copies of my
Standalone.

I suppose this is caused by the "start command passing through my
executable??

Does anyone have an alternate command to the "Start" or an alternate method
for opening folders in Windows OS from my Rev Standalone?

Thanks,
Mike

> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:50:39 -0500
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> Shoot... I forgot to put in the "/" to ":" conversion that appleScript
> needs... thanks for catching this, Mike!
> 
> I've updated the code with a ConvertPath function in the tip at my site:
> 
> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_file009
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> 
>> Ken,
>> 
>> I did find through trial and error that this Apple Script works from both
>> the Script Editor and my Rev Stack:
>> 
>> tell application "Finder"
>> activate
>> open folder "Users:cyberny:Desktop:MyFolder"
>> end tell
>> 
>> 
>> I found that replacing all "/" with ":" and eliminating the "Macintosh HD"
>> from the start of the path enabled the script to work.
>> 
>> Does that make sense??  I will test further but it seems to work.  I don't
>> know AppleScript so it's a bit sketchy.
>> 
>> Now I just need a Windows solution.
>> 
>> - Mike
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Mike Brown <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:12:25 -0400
>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>> 
>>> Ken,
>>> 
>>> When I run that script through the Apple Script Editor I get the
> following
>>> execution error:
>>> 
>>> Finder got an Error: Can't get folder "Macintosh HD"
>>> 
>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:28:31 -0500
>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>> 
>>>> Mike,
>>>> 
>>>> Try putting the script into Apple's Script editor (sans all the
> Transcript
>>>> stuff) and see if it works from there:
>>>> 
>>>> -- Suppose your hard disk is named "Macintosh HD"
>>>> 
>>>> tell application "Finder"
>>>> activate
>>>> open folder "Macintosh HD"
>>>> end tell
>>>> 
>>>> If this doesn't work, let me know...
>>>> 
>>>> Ken Ray
>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Still no luck.  I tried it on Mac OS 9.2, OSX and Win 98... no luck on
> all
>>>>> fronts.  I also tried minimizing the script for each specific OS to
> avoid
>>>>> mistakes but still no luck.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mac OS 9.2 the script does bring the Finder to the front but then
>>>> nothing
>>>>> else happens.  I created a test fld for the script and it is adding
> the
>>>>> appropriate path to the folder a sending the AppleScript message.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Mike
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0500
>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the "open
>>>> folder"
>>>>>> part of the applescript:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Try that and let me know,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I am
>>>>>>> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X and
> 9.2
>>>> for
>>>>>>> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script
>>>> accurately
>>>>>>> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but nothing
>>>> happens
>>>>>>> after that.  Any other ideas?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it
> on
>>>>>>>> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little sneaky
> as
>>>> it
>>>>>>>> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be
> posting
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> tip on my site tomorrow
>>>>>>>> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009) as
> my
>>>>>> FTP
>>>>>>>> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>>>>> answer folder "Get a folder:"
>>>>>>>> if it <> "" then
>>>>>>>> OpenFolder it
>>>>>>>> end if
>>>>>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> on OpenFolder pPath
>>>>>>>> switch (the platform)
>>>>>>>> case "Win32"
>>>>>>>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
>>>>>>>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>>>>>>>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
>>>>>>>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>> case "MacOS"
>>>>>>>> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
>>>>>>>> get shell("open " & pPath)
>>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
>>>>>>>> "activate" & cr & \
>>>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
>>>>>>>> "end tell" into tScript
>>>>>>>> do tScript as AppleScript
>>>>>>>> end if
>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>> end switch
>>>>>>>> end OpenFolder
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Enjoy!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from
> Rev
>>>> in
>>>>>> Win
>>>>>>>>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder
> and
>>>>>> grab
>>>>>>>>> files while still in the Rev app.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct 23 18:19:00 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed Oct 23 18:19:00 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
In-Reply-To: <B9DCA39A.CC04%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <B9DC7B54.4C0E%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Mike Brown"  wrote:

> Well... I can now open folders from a Rev App on the Mac OS thanks to Ken
> Ray.
> 
> I thought I had a method for Windows using this method:
> 
> get shell("start " & MyFolderPath)
> 
> This works great from a Rev file but not from a Standalone (.exe).  For some
> reason when I convert my stack to a standalone, this script no longer opens
> my folder but launches another window with my standalone Application.  This
> can go on and on until the screen is full of multiple copies of my
> Standalone.
> 
> I suppose this is caused by the "start command passing through my
> executable??
> 
> Does anyone have an alternate command to the "Start" or an alternate method
> for opening folders in Windows OS from my Rev Standalone?

Sounds like you might be using a relative path to the folder, instead of an
absolute path.  If this is the case, try establishing an absolute path to
your folder ie "c:/program files/myfolder".

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From alanIra9 at mac.com  Wed Oct 23 18:30:01 2002
From: alanIra9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Wed Oct 23 18:30:01 2002
Subject: How do I trap the "text insertion point"?
In-Reply-To: <B9DADFFD.15A74%troy@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <A377A37C-E6DD-11D6-9A14-000393158950@mac.com>

Hi all!

I've been trying to emulate the Quickeys "Type Text" function - i.e. to 
be able to click on a button and have the text that has been stored as a 
custom property inserted at that place in a field where the text 
insertion iBeam is located.  The only problem with this is that I can't 
seem to find a way to find out the location of the iBeam so I cn tell 
rev to put my text there.

I would suspect that the iBeam insertion point is a system property 
since Quickeys is able to insert text into any open application with an 
editable field and such a basic property must be readily available to 
every open application, including the RunRev script editor. 
Nevertheless, after spending hours looking through the transcript 
dictionary (for which a simple index would be REALLY helpful) I can't 
seem to locate any function that either reports this property and 
converts it to a location usable by RunRev.

It seems like this has GOT to be something simple but I'll be darned if 
I can find it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Alan



From mike at cyber-ny.com  Wed Oct 23 18:32:01 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Wed Oct 23 18:32:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
In-Reply-To: <B9DC7B54.4C0E%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <B9DCA857.CC09%mike@cyber-ny.com>

Hi Scott,

I'm using an absolute path to locate the folder (I use the filename function
to get it).  That part works great.  I test it by running the script through
a fld in the stack that displays the path.  I can then copy that same path
and execute it from the Windows "Run" window or from an OS Window and it
will pop the folder open.

The "get shell("start " & MyFolderPath)" script works in a Rev Stack just
not in an Executable.  I think I need an alternative method to the "Start "
portion of the script.

Thanks,
Mike

> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:14:12 -0700
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> Recently, "Mike Brown"  wrote:
> 
>> Well... I can now open folders from a Rev App on the Mac OS thanks to Ken
>> Ray.
>> 
>> I thought I had a method for Windows using this method:
>> 
>> get shell("start " & MyFolderPath)
>> 
>> This works great from a Rev file but not from a Standalone (.exe).  For some
>> reason when I convert my stack to a standalone, this script no longer opens
>> my folder but launches another window with my standalone Application.  This
>> can go on and on until the screen is full of multiple copies of my
>> Standalone.
>> 
>> I suppose this is caused by the "start command passing through my
>> executable??
>> 
>> Does anyone have an alternate command to the "Start" or an alternate method
>> for opening folders in Windows OS from my Rev Standalone?
> 
> Sounds like you might be using a relative path to the folder, instead of an
> absolute path.  If this is the case, try establishing an absolute path to
> your folder ie "c:/program files/myfolder".
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 23 18:45:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed Oct 23 18:45:01 2002
Subject: How do I trap the "text insertion point"?
In-Reply-To: <A377A37C-E6DD-11D6-9A14-000393158950@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B9DC8146.1EB96%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alan Gayne wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> I've been trying to emulate the Quickeys "Type Text" function - i.e. to
> be able to click on a button and have the text that has been stored as a
> custom property inserted at that place in a field where the text
> insertion iBeam is located.  The only problem with this is that I can't
> seem to find a way to find out the location of the iBeam so I cn tell
> rev to put my text there.
> 
> I would suspect that the iBeam insertion point is a system property
> since Quickeys is able to insert text into any open application with an
> editable field and such a basic property must be readily available to
> every open application, including the RunRev script editor.
> Nevertheless, after spending hours looking through the transcript
> dictionary (for which a simple index would be REALLY helpful) I can't
> seem to locate any function that either reports this property and
> converts it to a location usable by RunRev.
> 
> It seems like this has GOT to be something simple but I'll be darned if
> I can find it.

See the selectedChunk function.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From joshua at macmedicsmadison.com  Wed Oct 23 20:06:01 2002
From: joshua at macmedicsmadison.com (Joshua Snyder)
Date: Wed Oct 23 20:06:01 2002
Subject: set graphic to not scale?
In-Reply-To: <LOBBKHHMGNHFHNPEJJLBIECFCNAA.Mike@Doub.com>
Message-ID: <DC9DF788-E6EB-11D6-BA56-0003936415E4@macmedicsmadison.com>

How can I set a immage (Jpeg or Ping) so that it won't scale, but 
instead, my graphic object only shows that porton that would fit into 
it's normal size.  Also, I nead to be able to move the immage relative 
to the object

i.e. a 100x100 pixel object as a window onto a 640x480 immage

Josh





----------------------- - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------
                             Mac Medics
                    Consulting and Macintosh Repair
               Joshua Snyder, Consultant & Technician
         433 Grand Canyon Drive, Suite 101  Madison, WI 53719
                Voice: 608-829-0304  Fax: 608-829-3839
                  Email: joshua at macmedicsmadison.com
----------------------- - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------



From alanIra9 at mac.com  Wed Oct 23 20:15:00 2002
From: alanIra9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Wed Oct 23 20:15:00 2002
Subject: How do I trap the "text insertion point"?
In-Reply-To: <B9DC8146.1EB96%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9A29C1C8-E6EC-11D6-9A14-000393158950@mac.com>

Like I said - "simple"

MANY thanks for the point in the right direction

Regards,
Alan
On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, at 07:39  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Alan Gayne wrote:
>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> I've been trying to emulate the Quickeys "Type Text" function - i.e. to
>> be able to click on a button and have the text that has been stored 
>> as a
>> custom property inserted at that place in a field where the text
>> insertion iBeam is located.  The only problem with this is that I can't
>> seem to find a way to find out the location of the iBeam so I cn tell
>> rev to put my text there.
>>
>> I would suspect that the iBeam insertion point is a system property
>> since Quickeys is able to insert text into any open application with an
>> editable field and such a basic property must be readily available to
>> every open application, including the RunRev script editor.
>> Nevertheless, after spending hours looking through the transcript
>> dictionary (for which a simple index would be REALLY helpful) I can't
>> seem to locate any function that either reports this property and
>> converts it to a location usable by RunRev.
>>
>> It seems like this has GOT to be something simple but I'll be darned if
>> I can find it.
>
> See the selectedChunk function.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 23 20:24:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed Oct 23 20:24:01 2002
Subject: Independent Study Tutorial Help
In-Reply-To: <a05200a34b9dcd446d805@[63.205.23.218]>
Message-ID: <B9DCC286.15B6F%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/23/02 6:46 PM, "Dan Shafer" <dan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> Has *anyone* actually *worked through* and used the Independent Study
> tutorial that comes with Revolution?

Dan, I don't think you are crazy (at least this particular test would not be
the place to prove or deny it :-)  I have never done this project, but there
have certainly been reports that have gone by in the lists to indicate that
it is somewhat "flawed".

Sorry I can't be more help, but didn't want you ignored.


-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 23 20:53:01 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed Oct 23 20:53:01 2002
Subject: RR and Host Scripting
In-Reply-To: <a05200a31b9dcc7b2e57e@[63.205.23.218]>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAIECJCMAA.chipp@chipp.com>

> Where can I look for information on how, if at all, Rev would allow
> me to execute -- in a cross-platform way, preferably -- host scripts
> written in arbitrary other languages?

Dan,

Don't really have an answer for you...but I've been thinking along those
lines lately as well. It seem that RR would be *ideal* for such project.
Imagine using a RR GUI to configure SendMail or one of the gui-less
commandline LINUX apps. Seems like some cool OpenSource possibilities.

-Chipp



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 23 21:16:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 23 21:16:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
References: <B9DCA39A.CC04%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <00d701c27b01$e01743c0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Mike, did the "create alias" option in my post not work for you? It worked
for me on Windows 2000...

As a refresher, that was (for a folder at pPath):

    create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
    set the hideConsoleWindows to true
    get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
    delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev


> Well... I can now open folders from a Rev App on the Mac OS thanks to Ken
> Ray.
>
> I thought I had a method for Windows using this method:
>
> get shell("start " & MyFolderPath)
>
> This works great from a Rev file but not from a Standalone (.exe).  For
some
> reason when I convert my stack to a standalone, this script no longer
opens
> my folder but launches another window with my standalone Application.
This
> can go on and on until the screen is full of multiple copies of my
> Standalone.
>
> I suppose this is caused by the "start command passing through my
> executable??
>
> Does anyone have an alternate command to the "Start" or an alternate
method
> for opening folders in Windows OS from my Rev Standalone?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> > From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> > Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> > Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:50:39 -0500
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >
> > Shoot... I forgot to put in the "/" to ":" conversion that appleScript
> > needs... thanks for catching this, Mike!
> >
> > I've updated the code with a ConvertPath function in the tip at my site:
> >
> > http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_file009
> >
> > Ken Ray
> > Sons of Thunder Software
> > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >
> >
> >> Ken,
> >>
> >> I did find through trial and error that this Apple Script works from
both
> >> the Script Editor and my Rev Stack:
> >>
> >> tell application "Finder"
> >> activate
> >> open folder "Users:cyberny:Desktop:MyFolder"
> >> end tell
> >>
> >>
> >> I found that replacing all "/" with ":" and eliminating the "Macintosh
HD"
> >> from the start of the path enabled the script to work.
> >>
> >> Does that make sense??  I will test further but it seems to work.  I
don't
> >> know AppleScript so it's a bit sketchy.
> >>
> >> Now I just need a Windows solution.
> >>
> >> - Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Mike Brown <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:12:25 -0400
> >>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>
> >>> Ken,
> >>>
> >>> When I run that script through the Apple Script Editor I get the
> > following
> >>> execution error:
> >>>
> >>> Finder got an Error: Can't get folder "Macintosh HD"
> >>>
> >>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> >>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:28:31 -0500
> >>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike,
> >>>>
> >>>> Try putting the script into Apple's Script editor (sans all the
> > Transcript
> >>>> stuff) and see if it works from there:
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Suppose your hard disk is named "Macintosh HD"
> >>>>
> >>>> tell application "Finder"
> >>>> activate
> >>>> open folder "Macintosh HD"
> >>>> end tell
> >>>>
> >>>> If this doesn't work, let me know...
> >>>>
> >>>> Ken Ray
> >>>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:20 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Ken,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Still no luck.  I tried it on Mac OS 9.2, OSX and Win 98... no luck
on
> > all
> >>>>> fronts.  I also tried minimizing the script for each specific OS to
> > avoid
> >>>>> mistakes but still no luck.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mac OS 9.2 the script does bring the Finder to the front but then
> >>>> nothing
> >>>>> else happens.  I created a test fld for the script and it is adding
> > the
> >>>>> appropriate path to the folder a sending the AppleScript message.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> >>>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0500
> >>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mike,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the "open
> >>>> folder"
> >>>>>> part of the applescript:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Try that and let me know,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ken Ray
> >>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Ken,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I am
> >>>>>>> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X and
> > 9.2
> >>>> for
> >>>>>>> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script
> >>>> accurately
> >>>>>>> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but nothing
> >>>> happens
> >>>>>>> after that.  Any other ideas?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> Mike
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Mike,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it
> > on
> >>>>>>>> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little
sneaky
> > as
> >>>> it
> >>>>>>>> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be
> > posting
> >>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>> tip on my site tomorrow
> >>>>>>>> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009)
as
> > my
> >>>>>> FTP
> >>>>>>>> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> on mouseUp
> >>>>>>>> answer folder "Get a folder:"
> >>>>>>>> if it <> "" then
> >>>>>>>> OpenFolder it
> >>>>>>>> end if
> >>>>>>>> end mouseUp
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> on OpenFolder pPath
> >>>>>>>> switch (the platform)
> >>>>>>>> case "Win32"
> >>>>>>>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
> >>>>>>>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
> >>>>>>>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
> >>>>>>>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
> >>>>>>>> break
> >>>>>>>> case "MacOS"
> >>>>>>>> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
> >>>>>>>> get shell("open " & pPath)
> >>>>>>>> else
> >>>>>>>> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
> >>>>>>>> "activate" & cr & \
> >>>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
> >>>>>>>> "end tell" into tScript
> >>>>>>>> do tScript as AppleScript
> >>>>>>>> end if
> >>>>>>>> break
> >>>>>>>> end switch
> >>>>>>>> end OpenFolder
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Enjoy!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ken Ray
> >>>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from
> > Rev
> >>>> in
> >>>>>> Win
> >>>>>>>>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder
> > and
> >>>>>> grab
> >>>>>>>>> files while still in the Rev app.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>> Mike
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 23 21:22:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 23 21:22:01 2002
Subject: How do I trap the "text insertion point"?
References: <A377A37C-E6DD-11D6-9A14-000393158950@mac.com>
Message-ID: <00e001c27b02$ab9b06d0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Alan,

How about:

1) set the traversalOn of the button to false -- so it doesn't take the
focus away from the field

2) have the button say either:

-- "field 1" is your field and "the myProp of this card" is your custom
property

on mouseUp
  if the selectedChunk of field 1 is not empty then
    type (the myProp of this card)
  end if
end mouseUp

This has the effect of "typing" the text so you see it show up one character
at a time. If this is too slow, you can do:

on mouseUp
  if the selectedChunk of field 1 is not empty then
    put (the myProp of this card) before char (word 2 of the selectedChunk)
of field 1
  end if
end mouseUp

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Gayne" <alanIra9 at mac.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:17 PM
Subject: How do I trap the "text insertion point"?


> Hi all!
>
> I've been trying to emulate the Quickeys "Type Text" function - i.e. to
> be able to click on a button and have the text that has been stored as a
> custom property inserted at that place in a field where the text
> insertion iBeam is located.  The only problem with this is that I can't
> seem to find a way to find out the location of the iBeam so I cn tell
> rev to put my text there.
>
> I would suspect that the iBeam insertion point is a system property
> since Quickeys is able to insert text into any open application with an
> editable field and such a basic property must be readily available to
> every open application, including the RunRev script editor.
> Nevertheless, after spending hours looking through the transcript
> dictionary (for which a simple index would be REALLY helpful) I can't
> seem to locate any function that either reports this property and
> converts it to a location usable by RunRev.
>
> It seems like this has GOT to be something simple but I'll be darned if
> I can find it.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From tsj at unimelb.edu.au  Wed Oct 23 21:25:00 2002
From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Wed Oct 23 21:25:00 2002
Subject: Creating links
In-Reply-To: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAIECJCMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAIECJCMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <p05100300b9dd06fff96a@[128.250.164.101]>

OK, surely this can't be difficult. How do I select some text in a 
field and then set its linkText property without having to resort to 
"set the linkText of..." in the message box? I'm having real problems 
even querying the selectedChunk given that it automatically deselects 
as soon as I click in the message box (or anywhere else for that 
matter).

Cheers,

Terry...
-- 
Dr Terry Judd
Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Dentistry Medicine & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne
Parkville VIC
Australia


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 23 21:26:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 23 21:26:00 2002
Subject: set graphic to not scale?
References: <DC9DF788-E6EB-11D6-BA56-0003936415E4@macmedicsmadison.com>
Message-ID: <00e701c27b03$3e2e8670$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Josh,

Put the image (640x480) into a group object (sized to 100x100). Neat thing
is that you can show horizontal and vertical scrollbars and let the user
scroll around the image, or you can set the "scroll" of the group yourself.

Oh, just make sure you set the lockLocation of the group to true after
you've sized it down...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Snyder" <joshua at macmedicsmadison.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 7:59 PM
Subject: set graphic to not scale?


> How can I set a immage (Jpeg or Ping) so that it won't scale, but
> instead, my graphic object only shows that porton that would fit into
> it's normal size.  Also, I nead to be able to move the immage relative
> to the object
>
> i.e. a 100x100 pixel object as a window onto a 640x480 immage
>
> Josh
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------- - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------
>                              Mac Medics
>                     Consulting and Macintosh Repair
>                Joshua Snyder, Consultant & Technician
>          433 Grand Canyon Drive, Suite 101  Madison, WI 53719
>                 Voice: 608-829-0304  Fax: 608-829-3839
>                   Email: joshua at macmedicsmadison.com
> ----------------------- - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From mike at cyber-ny.com  Wed Oct 23 21:43:01 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Wed Oct 23 21:43:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
In-Reply-To: <00d701c27b01$e01743c0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <B9DCD50F.4CE6%mike@cyber-ny.com>

Hi Ken,

I did try your script on Win 98 but without any luck.

The "get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")" part of the script doesn't seem to do
anything.  The other parts work including creating the alias, placing the
path within the alias and finally deleting the alias.  The shell command
does not activate anything though.

Never thought it would be this tough to open a folder.

- Mike

on 10/23/02 10:05 PM, Ken Ray at kray at sonsothunder.com wrote:

> Mike, did the "create alias" option in my post not work for you? It worked
> for me on Windows 2000...
> 
> As a refresher, that was (for a folder at pPath):
> 
> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> 
>> Well... I can now open folders from a Rev App on the Mac OS thanks to Ken
>> Ray.
>> 
>> I thought I had a method for Windows using this method:
>> 
>> get shell("start " & MyFolderPath)
>> 
>> This works great from a Rev file but not from a Standalone (.exe).  For
> some
>> reason when I convert my stack to a standalone, this script no longer
> opens
>> my folder but launches another window with my standalone Application.
> This
>> can go on and on until the screen is full of multiple copies of my
>> Standalone.
>> 
>> I suppose this is caused by the "start command passing through my
>> executable??
>> 
>> Does anyone have an alternate command to the "Start" or an alternate
> method
>> for opening folders in Windows OS from my Rev Standalone?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
>> 
>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:50:39 -0500
>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>> 
>>> Shoot... I forgot to put in the "/" to ":" conversion that appleScript
>>> needs... thanks for catching this, Mike!
>>> 
>>> I've updated the code with a ConvertPath function in the tip at my site:
>>> 
>>> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_file009
>>> 
>>> Ken Ray
>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Ken,
>>>> 
>>>> I did find through trial and error that this Apple Script works from
> both
>>>> the Script Editor and my Rev Stack:
>>>> 
>>>> tell application "Finder"
>>>> activate
>>>> open folder "Users:cyberny:Desktop:MyFolder"
>>>> end tell
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I found that replacing all "/" with ":" and eliminating the "Macintosh
> HD"
>>>> from the start of the path enabled the script to work.
>>>> 
>>>> Does that make sense??  I will test further but it seems to work.  I
> don't
>>>> know AppleScript so it's a bit sketchy.
>>>> 
>>>> Now I just need a Windows solution.
>>>> 
>>>> - Mike
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> From: Mike Brown <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:12:25 -0400
>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ken,
>>>>> 
>>>>> When I run that script through the Apple Script Editor I get the
>>> following
>>>>> execution error:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Finder got an Error: Can't get folder "Macintosh HD"
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:28:31 -0500
>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Try putting the script into Apple's Script editor (sans all the
>>> Transcript
>>>>>> stuff) and see if it works from there:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- Suppose your hard disk is named "Macintosh HD"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> tell application "Finder"
>>>>>> activate
>>>>>> open folder "Macintosh HD"
>>>>>> end tell
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If this doesn't work, let me know...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:20 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Still no luck.  I tried it on Mac OS 9.2, OSX and Win 98... no luck
> on
>>> all
>>>>>>> fronts.  I also tried minimizing the script for each specific OS to
>>> avoid
>>>>>>> mistakes but still no luck.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mac OS 9.2 the script does bring the Finder to the front but then
>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>> else happens.  I created a test fld for the script and it is adding
>>> the
>>>>>>> appropriate path to the folder a sending the AppleScript message.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Mike
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>>>>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0500
>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the "open
>>>>>> folder"
>>>>>>>> part of the applescript:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Try that and let me know,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I am
>>>>>>>>> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X and
>>> 9.2
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script
>>>>>> accurately
>>>>>>>>> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but nothing
>>>>>> happens
>>>>>>>>> after that.  Any other ideas?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it
>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little
> sneaky
>>> as
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be
>>> posting
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> tip on my site tomorrow
>>>>>>>>>> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009)
> as
>>> my
>>>>>>>> FTP
>>>>>>>>>> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>>>>>>> answer folder "Get a folder:"
>>>>>>>>>> if it <> "" then
>>>>>>>>>> OpenFolder it
>>>>>>>>>> end if
>>>>>>>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> on OpenFolder pPath
>>>>>>>>>> switch (the platform)
>>>>>>>>>> case "Win32"
>>>>>>>>>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
>>>>>>>>>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>>>>>>>>>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
>>>>>>>>>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
>>>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>>>> case "MacOS"
>>>>>>>>>> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
>>>>>>>>>> get shell("open " & pPath)
>>>>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>>>> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
>>>>>>>>>> "activate" & cr & \
>>>>>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
>>>>>>>>>> "end tell" into tScript
>>>>>>>>>> do tScript as AppleScript
>>>>>>>>>> end if
>>>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>>>> end switch
>>>>>>>>>> end OpenFolder
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Enjoy!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from
>>> Rev
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> Win
>>>>>>>>>>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder
>>> and
>>>>>>>> grab
>>>>>>>>>>> files while still in the Rev app.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From keelan at mail.grenander.com  Wed Oct 23 22:24:01 2002
From: keelan at mail.grenander.com (Keelan Lightfoot)
Date: Wed Oct 23 22:24:01 2002
Subject: Current seek position
Message-ID: <B9DCB463.460C%keelan@mail.grenander.com>

How can I find the current position to which I am at in an open file? I need
to be able to go to the end of the file (which 'seek to -1 in file ...'
would take care of), but I need to know the position I'm at when I'm at the
end of the file.

Thanks,

Keelan Lightfoot



From alanIra9 at mac.com  Wed Oct 23 22:36:01 2002
From: alanIra9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Wed Oct 23 22:36:01 2002
Subject: How do I trap the "text insertion point"?
In-Reply-To: <00e001c27b02$ab9b06d0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <CF69A872-E700-11D6-9A14-000393158950@mac.com>

Ken,

Thanks for the ideas.  Actually I came up with something a bit different.

The following handler is in the stack script:
	on selectionChanged
  		 set the cInsertionPoint of this stack to the selectedChunk
	end selectionChanged

The button script is as follows: (actually since the button is part of a 
group "buttonBar" the mouseUp handler is in the script of the group -- 
the cBtnText is the custom property of each button where the text is 
stored
	on mouseUp
  		 put the last word of the cInsertionPoint of this stack into 
activeFld
  		 if fld activeFld is empty then
   			  put the cBtnText of the target into fld activeFld
  		 else
     			set the typingRate to 0
    			 type the cBtnText of the target
  		 end if
	end mouseUp

This seems to work great.

Speaking of the "buttonBar" group, I'd also like to emulate the Quickeys 
feature where the user can option-drag a button to duplicate it and then 
be able to drag it to another location on the buttonBar and then have 
the other buttons move so as to get out of the way.  Anyone have an idea 
about this one?

Thanks and regards,
Alan
On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, at 10:11  PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Alan,
>
> How about:
>
> 1) set the traversalOn of the button to false -- so it doesn't take the
> focus away from the field
>
> 2) have the button say either:
>
> -- "field 1" is your field and "the myProp of this card" is your custom
> property
>
> on mouseUp
>   if the selectedChunk of field 1 is not empty then
>     type (the myProp of this card)
>   end if
> end mouseUp
>
> This has the effect of "typing" the text so you see it show up one 
> character
> at a time. If this is too slow, you can do:
>
> on mouseUp
>   if the selectedChunk of field 1 is not empty then
>     put (the myProp of this card) before char (word 2 of the 
> selectedChunk)
> of field 1
>   end if
> end mouseUp
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Gayne" <alanIra9 at mac.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:17 PM
> Subject: How do I trap the "text insertion point"?
>
>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> I've been trying to emulate the Quickeys "Type Text" function - i.e. to
>> be able to click on a button and have the text that has been stored 
>> as a
>> custom property inserted at that place in a field where the text
>> insertion iBeam is located.  The only problem with this is that I can't
>> seem to find a way to find out the location of the iBeam so I cn tell
>> rev to put my text there.
>>
>> I would suspect that the iBeam insertion point is a system property
>> since Quickeys is able to insert text into any open application with an
>> editable field and such a basic property must be readily available to
>> every open application, including the RunRev script editor.
>> Nevertheless, after spending hours looking through the transcript
>> dictionary (for which a simple index would be REALLY helpful) I can't
>> seem to locate any function that either reports this property and
>> converts it to a location usable by RunRev.
>>
>> It seems like this has GOT to be something simple but I'll be darned if
>> I can find it.
>>
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 23 22:44:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 23 22:44:00 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
References: <B9DCD50F.4CE6%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <00f601c27b0e$1fdd4a70$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Mike,

Do me a favor... open Rev and type in the message box "put the
shellCommand". It may return "command". If it does, check in your
Windows/System32 directory and see if you have an app called "CMD.EXE". If
you do, you may need to change the shell command before executing the "get
shell" part of the code with:

set the shellCommand to "cmd.exe"

Uh... anyone vote for "open folder <folderName>" ???  ;-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev


> Hi Ken,
>
> I did try your script on Win 98 but without any luck.
>
> The "get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")" part of the script doesn't seem to do
> anything.  The other parts work including creating the alias, placing the
> path within the alias and finally deleting the alias.  The shell command
> does not activate anything though.
>
> Never thought it would be this tough to open a folder.
>
> - Mike
>
> on 10/23/02 10:05 PM, Ken Ray at kray at sonsothunder.com wrote:
>
> > Mike, did the "create alias" option in my post not work for you? It
worked
> > for me on Windows 2000...
> >
> > As a refresher, that was (for a folder at pPath):
> >
> > create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
> > set the hideConsoleWindows to true
> > get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
> > delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
> >
> >
> > Ken Ray
> > Sons of Thunder Software
> > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >
> >
> >> Well... I can now open folders from a Rev App on the Mac OS thanks to
Ken
> >> Ray.
> >>
> >> I thought I had a method for Windows using this method:
> >>
> >> get shell("start " & MyFolderPath)
> >>
> >> This works great from a Rev file but not from a Standalone (.exe).  For
> > some
> >> reason when I convert my stack to a standalone, this script no longer
> > opens
> >> my folder but launches another window with my standalone Application.
> > This
> >> can go on and on until the screen is full of multiple copies of my
> >> Standalone.
> >>
> >> I suppose this is caused by the "start command passing through my
> >> executable??
> >>
> >> Does anyone have an alternate command to the "Start" or an alternate
> > method
> >> for opening folders in Windows OS from my Rev Standalone?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> >>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> >>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:50:39 -0500
> >>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>
> >>> Shoot... I forgot to put in the "/" to ":" conversion that appleScript
> >>> needs... thanks for catching this, Mike!
> >>>
> >>> I've updated the code with a ConvertPath function in the tip at my
site:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_file009
> >>>
> >>> Ken Ray
> >>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:37 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Ken,
> >>>>
> >>>> I did find through trial and error that this Apple Script works from
> > both
> >>>> the Script Editor and my Rev Stack:
> >>>>
> >>>> tell application "Finder"
> >>>> activate
> >>>> open folder "Users:cyberny:Desktop:MyFolder"
> >>>> end tell
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I found that replacing all "/" with ":" and eliminating the
"Macintosh
> > HD"
> >>>> from the start of the path enabled the script to work.
> >>>>
> >>>> Does that make sense??  I will test further but it seems to work.  I
> > don't
> >>>> know AppleScript so it's a bit sketchy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Now I just need a Windows solution.
> >>>>
> >>>> - Mike
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> From: Mike Brown <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:12:25 -0400
> >>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ken,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When I run that script through the Apple Script Editor I get the
> >>> following
> >>>>> execution error:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Finder got an Error: Can't get folder "Macintosh HD"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> >>>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:28:31 -0500
> >>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mike,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Try putting the script into Apple's Script editor (sans all the
> >>> Transcript
> >>>>>> stuff) and see if it works from there:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -- Suppose your hard disk is named "Macintosh HD"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> tell application "Finder"
> >>>>>> activate
> >>>>>> open folder "Macintosh HD"
> >>>>>> end tell
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If this doesn't work, let me know...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ken Ray
> >>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:20 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Ken,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Still no luck.  I tried it on Mac OS 9.2, OSX and Win 98... no
luck
> > on
> >>> all
> >>>>>>> fronts.  I also tried minimizing the script for each specific OS
to
> >>> avoid
> >>>>>>> mistakes but still no luck.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mac OS 9.2 the script does bring the Finder to the front but
then
> >>>>>> nothing
> >>>>>>> else happens.  I created a test fld for the script and it is
adding
> >>> the
> >>>>>>> appropriate path to the folder a sending the AppleScript message.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Mike
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> >>>>>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0500
> >>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Mike,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the
"open
> >>>>>> folder"
> >>>>>>>> part of the applescript:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Try that and let me know,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ken Ray
> >>>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi Ken,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I
am
> >>>>>>>>> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X
and
> >>> 9.2
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script
> >>>>>> accurately
> >>>>>>>>> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but
nothing
> >>>>>> happens
> >>>>>>>>> after that.  Any other ideas?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>> Mike
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Mike,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do
it
> >>> on
> >>>>>>>>>> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little
> > sneaky
> >>> as
> >>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be
> >>> posting
> >>>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>>>> tip on my site tomorrow
> >>>>>>>>>> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009)
> > as
> >>> my
> >>>>>>>> FTP
> >>>>>>>>>> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the
code:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> on mouseUp
> >>>>>>>>>> answer folder "Get a folder:"
> >>>>>>>>>> if it <> "" then
> >>>>>>>>>> OpenFolder it
> >>>>>>>>>> end if
> >>>>>>>>>> end mouseUp
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> on OpenFolder pPath
> >>>>>>>>>> switch (the platform)
> >>>>>>>>>> case "Win32"
> >>>>>>>>>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
> >>>>>>>>>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
> >>>>>>>>>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
> >>>>>>>>>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
> >>>>>>>>>> break
> >>>>>>>>>> case "MacOS"
> >>>>>>>>>> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
> >>>>>>>>>> get shell("open " & pPath)
> >>>>>>>>>> else
> >>>>>>>>>> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
> >>>>>>>>>> "activate" & cr & \
> >>>>>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
> >>>>>>>>>> "end tell" into tScript
> >>>>>>>>>> do tScript as AppleScript
> >>>>>>>>>> end if
> >>>>>>>>>> break
> >>>>>>>>>> end switch
> >>>>>>>>>> end OpenFolder
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Enjoy!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Ken Ray
> >>>>>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>>>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>>>>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory)
from
> >>> Rev
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>> Win
> >>>>>>>>>>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a
folder
> >>> and
> >>>>>>>> grab
> >>>>>>>>>>> files while still in the Rev app.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>>>> Mike
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 23 22:47:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 23 22:47:00 2002
Subject: Current seek position
References: <B9DCB463.460C%keelan@mail.grenander.com>
Message-ID: <00ff01c27b0e$87535820$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Just curious... why do you need to know this? If you're looking at appending
data to a file, you can do a "write <data> after file <fileName>", and if
you need to know the length of the file you can read it into a variable with
"put url ("file:" & <fileName>") into <myVar> and then get the length of
<myVar>.

Can you shed some light on your request?

Thanks,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keelan Lightfoot" <keelan at mail.grenander.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 10:17 PM
Subject: Current seek position


> How can I find the current position to which I am at in an open file? I
need
> to be able to go to the end of the file (which 'seek to -1 in file ...'
> would take care of), but I need to know the position I'm at when I'm at
the
> end of the file.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keelan Lightfoot
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 23 22:47:14 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed Oct 23 22:47:14 2002
Subject: Creating links
References: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAIECJCMAA.chipp@chipp.com> <p05100300b9dd06fff96a@[128.250.164.101]>
Message-ID: <010301c27b0e$a7f253b0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Terry,

Create a button with the traversalOn set the false, then put the script in
the button, select the text in the field and click the button.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Judd" <tsj at unimelb.edu.au>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 9:17 PM
Subject: Creating links


> OK, surely this can't be difficult. How do I select some text in a
> field and then set its linkText property without having to resort to
> "set the linkText of..." in the message box? I'm having real problems
> even querying the selectedChunk given that it automatically deselects
> as soon as I click in the message box (or anywhere else for that
> matter).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Terry...
> --
> Dr Terry Judd
> Biomedical Multimedia Unit
> Faculty of Dentistry Medicine & Health Sciences
> The University of Melbourne
> Parkville VIC
> Australia
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 24 00:22:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Oct 24 00:22:01 2002
Subject: Creating links
In-Reply-To: <p05100300b9dd06fff96a@[128.250.164.101]>
Message-ID: <20021024051612.6279.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Terry Judd <tsj at unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
> OK, surely this can't be difficult. How do I select
> some text in a 
> field and then set its linkText property without
> having to resort to 
> "set the linkText of..." in the message box? I'm
> having real problems 
> even querying the selectedChunk given that it
> automatically deselects 
> as soon as I click in the message box (or anywhere
> else for that 
> matter).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Terry...
>

Hi Terry,

This may sound too obvious, but in the menu "Text" you
can choose the item "Link" to set the style of the
selected chunk.

Either that, or you'll have to add a small button with
the property 'traversalOn' set to false so the
selection doesn't change, with script:

  on mouseUp
    if the selectedChunk is empty then exit mouseUp
    put the textStyle of the selectedChunk into tStyle
    switch
    case tStyle is "plain" or tStyle is empty
      set the textStyle of the selectedChunk to "link"
      break
    case "link" is not among the items of tStyle
      set the textStyle of the selectedChunk to \
        (tStyle & comma & "link")
      break
    end switch
  end mouseUp

That should take care of the situations where there's
no selection or the entire selection already has a
style of its own -- you'll have a bit more work to do
if you want to prserve the style of a chunk within the
selectedChunk.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


From tsj at unimelb.edu.au  Thu Oct 24 00:22:23 2002
From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Thu Oct 24 00:22:23 2002
Subject: using imageSource as a hyperlink
In-Reply-To: <010301c27b0e$a7f253b0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
References: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAIECJCMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
 <p05100300b9dd06fff96a@[128.250.164.101]>
 <010301c27b0e$a7f253b0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <p05100303b9dd2fc38d78@[128.250.164.101]>

I like the imageSource property - particularly nice the way it 
maintains the transparency of the image. What I'm trying to do now is 
embed (in a 'list' without list behaviour) a series if icons that 
will indicate whether certain types of resources are available for 
the selected item (eg image, QT movie etc) and then click the icon to 
display the resource. However, it seems that once you set the 
imageSource of a character you lose the ability to see it as part of 
a clickChunk. Is there any way to click on an embedded (imageSource) 
image and query the linkText of the underlying character??

Cheers,

Terry...
-- 
Dr Terry Judd
Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Dentistry Medicine & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne
Parkville VIC
Australia


From tsj at unimelb.edu.au  Thu Oct 24 00:31:01 2002
From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Thu Oct 24 00:31:01 2002
Subject: using imageSource as a hyperlink
Message-ID: <p05100304b9dd33796ca9@[128.250.164.101]>

Hold that request! Seems like it works fine after all, I'd managed to 
somehow delete the underlying imageSource character and retained the 
image when fiddling around with the text.

Terry...

>
>I like the imageSource property - particularly nice the way it 
>maintains the transparency of the image. What I'm trying to do now 
>is embed (in a 'list' without list behaviour) a series if icons that 
>will indicate whether certain types of resources are available for 
>the selected item (eg image, QT movie etc) and then click the icon 
>to display the resource. However, it seems that once you set the 
>imageSource of a character you lose the ability to see it as part of 
>a clickChunk. Is there any way to click on an embedded (imageSource) 
>image and query the linkText of the underlying character??
>

-- 
Dr Terry Judd
Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Dentistry Medicine & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne
Parkville VIC
Australia


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 24 00:45:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Oct 24 00:45:01 2002
Subject: Creating links
In-Reply-To: <p05100300b9dd06fff96a@[128.250.164.101]>
Message-ID: <B9DCD5A4.1EBD8%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Terry Judd wrote:

> OK, surely this can't be difficult. How do I select some text in a
> field and then set its linkText property without having to resort to
> "set the linkText of..." in the message box? I'm having real problems
> even querying the selectedChunk given that it automatically deselects
> as soon as I click in the message box (or anywhere else for that
> matter).

You could add this to a backscript:

on functionKey k
  if k = 4 then
    get the selectedChunk
    if it is not empty then
      put it into tSaveSel
      ask "Link to:" with "http://www.fourthworld.com"
      if it is empty then exit to top
      select tSaveSel
      set the linkText of the selection to it
    end if
  end if
end functionKey



-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From tsj at unimelb.edu.au  Thu Oct 24 00:49:00 2002
From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Thu Oct 24 00:49:00 2002
Subject: Creating links
In-Reply-To: <20021024051612.6279.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021024051612.6279.qmail@web11903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p05100305b9dd37cb7075@[128.250.164.101]>

>Hi Terry,
>
>This may sound too obvious, but in the menu "Text" you
>can choose the item "Link" to set the style of the
>selected chunk.

Yep - I was doing that. It was setting the linkText that was giving 
me trouble (it'd be nice to be able to do this through a dialog).

Thanks,

Terry...

>
>Either that, or you'll have to add a small button with
>the property 'traversalOn' set to false so the
>selection doesn't change, with script:
>
>   on mouseUp
>     if the selectedChunk is empty then exit mouseUp
>     put the textStyle of the selectedChunk into tStyle
>     switch
>     case tStyle is "plain" or tStyle is empty
>       set the textStyle of the selectedChunk to "link"
>       break
>     case "link" is not among the items of tStyle
>       set the textStyle of the selectedChunk to \
>         (tStyle & comma & "link")
>       break
>     end switch
>   end mouseUp
>
>That should take care of the situations where there's
>no selection or the entire selection already has a
>style of its own -- you'll have a bit more work to do
>if you want to prserve the style of a chunk within the
>selectedChunk.
>
>Hope this helped,
>
>Jan Schenkel.

-- 
Dr Terry Judd
Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Dentistry Medicine & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne
Parkville VIC
Australia


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct 24 01:55:01 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu Oct 24 01:55:01 2002
Subject: Creating links
In-Reply-To: <p05100300b9dd06fff96a@[128.250.164.101]>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAMECMCMAA.chipp@chipp.com>

> OK, surely this can't be difficult. How do I select some text in a 
> field and then set its linkText property without having to resort to 
> "set the linkText of..." in the message box? I'm having real problems 
> even querying the selectedChunk given that it automatically deselects 
> as soon as I click in the message box (or anywhere else for that 
> matter).

Terry,

Check out my HTML Builder plugin at
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Plugins.htm

(tested on XP, not Mac...but should work)

It can do what you want.

-Chipp


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 24 05:58:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Oct 24 05:58:01 2002
Subject: Creating links (OT)
In-Reply-To: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAMECMCMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <20021024105259.10812.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Terry Jude wrote:
> >Hi Terry,
> >
> > This may sound too obvious, but in the menu "Text"
> > you can choose the item "Link" to set the style of
> > the selected chunk.
>
> Yep - I was doing that. It was setting the linkText
> that was giving me trouble (it'd be nice to be able
> to do this through a dialog).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Terry...
>

D'oh! I should have known better than to try and
answer a question like that _before_ my first cup of
coffee.
Thank goodness Richard picked it up and sent you that
'functionKey' script. I'm sure it did the trick. Sorry
about that...

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


From robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk  Thu Oct 24 07:01:01 2002
From: robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk (Robin Banerjee)
Date: Thu Oct 24 07:01:01 2002
Subject: help!  all cards are blank
Message-ID: <B9DD9E46.EA9%robinb@cogs.susx.ac.uk>

Can anyone help me, please?!!!  The stack I've been working on for a while
now doesn't show anything.  Everything is there, sounds play etc., but all
cards display blank.

I had been editing a sound file which I use in the app at the time, if
that's relevant.  

Any help would be much appreciated!!

Robin



-- 
Dr Robin Banerjee
Email: robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk



From mike at cyber-ny.com  Thu Oct 24 07:28:01 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Thu Oct 24 07:28:01 2002
Subject: Opening folders from Rev
In-Reply-To: <B9DD4805.4D0E%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <B9DD5E17.CC1F%mike@cyber-ny.com>

Ken,

I ran "put the shellCommand" from Rev's message box and the result was
"command.com".  I will try adding the "set the shellCommand to "cmd.exe"" to
your script and see what happens.

It would be great to add "folder" or "open folder" to Transcript to avoid
this problem in future Rev releases.  I would think that opening a folder on
a Hard Drive would be a common enough task to warrant its addition to the
scripting language.

- Mike

> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> Mike,
> 
> Do me a favor... open Rev and type in the message box "put the
> shellCommand". It may return "command". If it does, check in your
> Windows/System32 directory and see if you have an app called "CMD.EXE". If
> you do, you may need to change the shell command before executing the "get
> shell" part of the code with:
> 
> set the shellCommand to "cmd.exe"
> 
> Uh... anyone vote for "open folder <folderName>" ???  ;-)
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> 
>> Hi Ken,
>> 
>> I did try your script on Win 98 but without any luck.
>> 
>> The "get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")" part of the script doesn't seem to do
>> anything.  The other parts work including creating the alias, placing the
>> path within the alias and finally deleting the alias.  The shell command
>> does not activate anything though.
>> 
>> Never thought it would be this tough to open a folder.
>> 
>> - Mike
>> 
>> on 10/23/02 10:05 PM, Ken Ray at kray at sonsothunder.com wrote:
>> 
>>> Mike, did the "create alias" option in my post not work for you? It
> worked
>>> for me on Windows 2000...
>>> 
>>> As a refresher, that was (for a folder at pPath):
>>> 
>>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
>>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
>>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ken Ray
>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Well... I can now open folders from a Rev App on the Mac OS thanks to
> Ken
>>>> Ray.
>>>> 
>>>> I thought I had a method for Windows using this method:
>>>> 
>>>> get shell("start " & MyFolderPath)
>>>> 
>>>> This works great from a Rev file but not from a Standalone (.exe).  For
>>> some
>>>> reason when I convert my stack to a standalone, this script no longer
>>> opens
>>>> my folder but launches another window with my standalone Application.
>>> This
>>>> can go on and on until the screen is full of multiple copies of my
>>>> Standalone.
>>>> 
>>>> I suppose this is caused by the "start command passing through my
>>>> executable??
>>>> 
>>>> Does anyone have an alternate command to the "Start" or an alternate
>>> method
>>>> for opening folders in Windows OS from my Rev Standalone?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:50:39 -0500
>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>> 
>>>>> Shoot... I forgot to put in the "/" to ":" conversion that appleScript
>>>>> needs... thanks for catching this, Mike!
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've updated the code with a ConvertPath function in the tip at my
> site:
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_file009
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:37 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ken,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I did find through trial and error that this Apple Script works from
>>> both
>>>>>> the Script Editor and my Rev Stack:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> tell application "Finder"
>>>>>> activate
>>>>>> open folder "Users:cyberny:Desktop:MyFolder"
>>>>>> end tell
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I found that replacing all "/" with ":" and eliminating the
> "Macintosh
>>> HD"
>>>>>> from the start of the path enabled the script to work.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Does that make sense??  I will test further but it seems to work.  I
>>> don't
>>>>>> know AppleScript so it's a bit sketchy.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Now I just need a Windows solution.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - Mike
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Mike Brown <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:12:25 -0400
>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ken,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> When I run that script through the Apple Script Editor I get the
>>>>> following
>>>>>>> execution error:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Finder got an Error: Can't get folder "Macintosh HD"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>>>>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:28:31 -0500
>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Try putting the script into Apple's Script editor (sans all the
>>>>> Transcript
>>>>>>>> stuff) and see if it works from there:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- Suppose your hard disk is named "Macintosh HD"
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> tell application "Finder"
>>>>>>>> activate
>>>>>>>> open folder "Macintosh HD"
>>>>>>>> end tell
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If this doesn't work, let me know...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:20 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Still no luck.  I tried it on Mac OS 9.2, OSX and Win 98... no
> luck
>>> on
>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>> fronts.  I also tried minimizing the script for each specific OS
> to
>>>>> avoid
>>>>>>>>> mistakes but still no luck.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mac OS 9.2 the script does bring the Finder to the front but
> then
>>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>>>> else happens.  I created a test fld for the script and it is
> adding
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> appropriate path to the folder a sending the AppleScript message.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - Mike
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0500
>>>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the
> "open
>>>>>>>> folder"
>>>>>>>>>> part of the applescript:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Try that and let me know,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I
> am
>>>>>>>>>>> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X
> and
>>>>> 9.2
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script
>>>>>>>> accurately
>>>>>>>>>>> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but
> nothing
>>>>>>>> happens
>>>>>>>>>>> after that.  Any other ideas?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do
> it
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little
>>> sneaky
>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be
>>>>> posting
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> tip on my site tomorrow
>>>>>>>>>>>> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009)
>>> as
>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> FTP
>>>>>>>>>>>> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the
> code:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>>>>>>>>> answer folder "Get a folder:"
>>>>>>>>>>>> if it <> "" then
>>>>>>>>>>>> OpenFolder it
>>>>>>>>>>>> end if
>>>>>>>>>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> on OpenFolder pPath
>>>>>>>>>>>> switch (the platform)
>>>>>>>>>>>> case "Win32"
>>>>>>>>>>>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
>>>>>>>>>>>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>>>>>>>>>>>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
>>>>>>>>>>>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
>>>>>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>>>>>> case "MacOS"
>>>>>>>>>>>> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
>>>>>>>>>>>> get shell("open " & pPath)
>>>>>>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>>>>>> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
>>>>>>>>>>>> "activate" & cr & \
>>>>>>>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
>>>>>>>>>>>> "end tell" into tScript
>>>>>>>>>>>> do tScript as AppleScript
>>>>>>>>>>>> end if
>>>>>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>>>>>> end switch
>>>>>>>>>>>> end OpenFolder
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Enjoy!
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>>>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory)
> from
>>>>> Rev
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> Win
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a
> folder
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> grab
>>>>>>>>>>>>> files while still in the Rev app.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 24 08:14:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct 24 08:14:01 2002
Subject: help!  all cards are blank
References: <B9DD9E46.EA9%robinb@cogs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <012e01c27b5d$c416d1c0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Robin,

Did you recently move the stack somewhere? If so, it's possible that
referenced images have file paths that are no longer valid...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Banerjee" <robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 6:55 AM
Subject: help! all cards are blank


> Can anyone help me, please?!!!  The stack I've been working on for a while
> now doesn't show anything.  Everything is there, sounds play etc., but all
> cards display blank.
>
> I had been editing a sound file which I use in the app at the time, if
> that's relevant.
>
> Any help would be much appreciated!!
>
> Robin
>
>
>
> --
> Dr Robin Banerjee
> Email: robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From keelan at mail.grenander.com  Thu Oct 24 09:14:00 2002
From: keelan at mail.grenander.com (Keelan Lightfoot)
Date: Thu Oct 24 09:14:00 2002
Subject: Current seek position
In-Reply-To: <00ff01c27b0e$87535820$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <B9DD4CD4.4630%keelan@mail.grenander.com>

I'm working on a disk based database system, to run on a machine with
limited memory. Loading the entire file into memory to count the number of
bytes is not an option.

I need to know the current seek position so that I can record it in a table
that points to the fragments of data in the database.

After posting this message last night, I came up with this bit of code to
find the file size:

function fileSize thePath
  set the itemdelimiter to "/"
  put the last item of thePath into theFile
  delete the last item of thePath
  set the itemdelimiter to ","
  set the defaultfolder to thePath
  put the detailed files into fileList
  repeat for each line compareFile in fileList
    if item 1 of compareFile is theFile then
      return item 2 of compareFile
    end if
  end repeat
end fileSize

This will work as a work-around, though it seems a bit clunky.

- Keelan Lightfoot

> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:36:21 -0500
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Current seek position
> 
> Just curious... why do you need to know this? If you're looking at appending
> data to a file, you can do a "write <data> after file <fileName>", and if
> you need to know the length of the file you can read it into a variable with
> "put url ("file:" & <fileName>") into <myVar> and then get the length of
> <myVar>.
> 
> Can you shed some light on your request?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keelan Lightfoot" <keelan at mail.grenander.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 10:17 PM
> Subject: Current seek position
> 
> 
>> How can I find the current position to which I am at in an open file? I
> need
>> to be able to go to the end of the file (which 'seek to -1 in file ...'
>> would take care of), but I need to know the position I'm at when I'm at
> the
>> end of the file.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Keelan Lightfoot
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Oct 24 10:33:02 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu Oct 24 10:33:02 2002
Subject: Heads Up For HyperCard Stack Converters
Message-ID: <a05100300b9ddb401e4af@[216.229.107.43]>

Hi All,

Did you know that, without manual intervention, Revolution stacks 
created from HyperCard stacks will work differently than native RR 
stacks?

In converting OenoLog from HyperCard to Revolution I decided to do a 
redesign instead of a straight conversion.  However, I did not want 
to lose the positioning of most controls or the contents of fields; 
so I used HC PowerTools to save all stack scripts to a text file and 
removed the scripts, AddColor database, and other unwanted items from 
the stack before opening & saving it with RunRev.  I was unknowingly 
setting myself up for VERY esoteric potential problems, and only 
accidentally became aware when I found this in the Rev Dictionary:

>>
dynamicPaths

If a stack's dynamicPaths property is true, when a handler in that 
stack goes to a card other than the original card, that card's 
message path is inserted into the message path as long as the handler 
is on that card.

If the dynamicPaths is false, the message path does not change even 
when a handler visits another card.

The dynamicPaths property of stacks imported from HyperCard is set to 
true by default.
<<

and

>>
HCAddressing

When you open a HyperCard stack and convert it to a Revolution stack, 
the new stack's HCAddressing property is set to true.

If the HCAddressing property is set to true, expressions in the 
stack's scripts that refer to fields without specifying card or 
background are assumed to refer to grouped controls, and expressions 
that refer to other control types are assumed to refer to card 
controls...

If the HCAddressing property is false, expressions that refer to 
fields or buttons without specifying card or background are assumed 
to refer to all fields or buttons.
<<

Can you imagine trying to debug problems in converted HC stacks if 
one is unaware of these differences?

Can anyone tell me if there are other properties that differ between 
converted HC & native RR stacks?  [There is an HCStack property; but 
it is read-only and does not directly alter stack behavior.]
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From dan at danshafer.com  Thu Oct 24 11:28:00 2002
From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu Oct 24 11:28:00 2002
Subject: SuperCard Now On OS X
Message-ID: <a05200a05b9ddcf1da27b@[63.205.23.218]>

Just thought there might be a few here who might want to know:

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0210/23.supercard.php
-- 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.danshafer.com
831-392-1127 Voice - 831-401-2531 Fax
-------------- next part --------------
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From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Thu Oct 24 12:17:01 2002
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu Oct 24 12:17:01 2002
Subject: SuperCard Now On OS X
Message-ID: <OF268979B8.8A694F43-ON85256C5C.005C8A87@sealedair.com>

> Just thought there might be a few here who might want to know:
>
> http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0210/23.supercard.php
>
> --
>
> Dan Shafer

Dan,

Thanks for the update.  I noticed that on the web page at the bottom is a
user comments area.
I just had to post a plug for Revolution. See the post labeled "Cross
Platform". There weren't any other references to Rev. It was like these
people don't even know about it, and they have been waiting patiently for
HyperCard to be ported to OS X. So sad.

Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com




From raney at metacard.com  Thu Oct 24 12:29:00 2002
From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney)
Date: Thu Oct 24 12:29:00 2002
Subject: SuperCard Now On OS X
In-Reply-To: <200210241601.MAA23418@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210241112000.29513-100000@mast.metacard.com>

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002  Dan Shafer <dan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> Just thought there might be a few here who might want to know:
> http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0210/23.supercard.php

Thanks for sharing.  Now who wants to do the same on the SuperCard
list when RR 2.0 and/or MC 2.5 is announced?  Keep in mind that the
odds are that your attempt will fail: the list mom for the SC list
censors posts that mention competing products...
  Regards,
    Scott

********************************************************
Scott Raney  raney at metacard.com  http://www.metacard.com
MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...




From rfarnold at bu.edu  Thu Oct 24 12:42:01 2002
From: rfarnold at bu.edu (Bob Arnold)
Date: Thu Oct 24 12:42:01 2002
Subject: Mac/Win standalone startup difference
Message-ID: <B9DDA7B5.C0CA%rfarnold@bu.edu>

Helo Rev Users,

I have a stand-alone which on startup checks for some necessary files, and
if not found, alerts the user.

On the Mac (any OS) the stack window will open first and the alert (using
ask/answer resources) works, but on the Windows build, the alert precedes
the stack window opening, and seems to lack the revask/answer resources
(which were included in the build) -- the ask window appears as a black
rectangle with no text or buttons, although it does respond to pressing the
enter key as it should). If this problem is not encountered, and the main
stack window opens, all alerts work as expected, so this is related to the
startup procedure.

Is there some way to force the windows version to finish loading its
resources and opening the main stack window before an alert which is called
in a startup handler?

Thanks,

Bob
-- 
Robert Arnold
Associate Professor of Film
College of Communication
Boston University
640 Commonwealth Avenue
Boston, MA 02215
Tel: 617 353-7735
Fax: 617-353-1084
Email: rfarnold at bu.edu
Http: people.bu.edu/rfarnold

"Seeing is an art that has to be learned." M. Duras, Hiroshima mon Amour



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 24 12:58:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu Oct 24 12:58:01 2002
Subject: Mac/Win standalone startup difference
In-Reply-To: <B9DDA7B5.C0CA%rfarnold@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <20021024175220.69498.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Bob Arnold <rfarnold at bu.edu> wrote:
> Helo Rev Users,
> 
> I have a stand-alone which on startup checks for
> some necessary files, and
> if not found, alerts the user.
> 
> On the Mac (any OS) the stack window will open first
> and the alert (using
> ask/answer resources) works, but on the Windows
> build, the alert precedes
> the stack window opening, and seems to lack the
> revask/answer resources
> (which were included in the build) -- the ask window
> appears as a black
> rectangle with no text or buttons, although it does
> respond to pressing the
> enter key as it should). If this problem is not
> encountered, and the main
> stack window opens, all alerts work as expected, so
> this is related to the
> startup procedure.
> 
> Is there some way to force the windows version to
> finish loading its
> resources and opening the main stack window before
> an alert which is called
> in a startup handler?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob
> 

Hi Bob,

You could always try moving it from the 'startup'
message to the 'preopenstack' message and see if that
helps.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


From mike at cyber-ny.com  Thu Oct 24 13:06:01 2002
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Thu Oct 24 13:06:01 2002
Subject: A method for opening folders from Rev
In-Reply-To: <00b301c27acd$771340b0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <B9DDAD40.CC47%mike@cyber-ny.com>

Just to put some closure on this issue, I was able to open a folder using
the following scripts that Ken Ray and John Nunez helped with:

Please Note:  These scripts are for opening a pre-designated folder from
your Rev Stack or Standalone and will work from the Hard Drive or a CD-ROM.
If you want the user to select a folder, add the "Answer Folder" or "File"
method.  These scripts also assume the folder path is relative to the
Standalone path like on a CD-ROM.

For Rev Stacks on Mac OS 8.6 - OS X:

on MouseUp
  global MyFolderPath
  put the filename of this stack into MyFolderPath -- Gets the relative path
  set the itemdelimiter to"/"
  delete the last item of MyFolderPath -- Deletes the name of your stack
  put ":FolderName" after MyFolderPath -- adds your folder name
  replace "/" with ":" in pAppPath -- makes path compatible with AppleScript
  put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
  "activate" & cr & \
  "open folder " & quote & MyFolderPath & quote & cr & \
  "end tell" into tScript -- Assembles AppleScript
  do tScript as AppleScript -- Sends AppleScript to Mac OS
end MouseUp


For Rev Stacks on Win OS (98, ME, 2000,) Not tested on XP:

on Mouseup
  global MyFolderPath
  put the filename of this stack into MyFolderPath
  set the itemdelimiter to"/"
  delete the last item of MyFolderPath -- Deletes the name of your stack
  put "\FolderName" after MyFolderPath -- adds your folder name
  replace "/" with "\" in MyFolderPath -- makes path compatible Windows
  set the hideConsoleWindows to true
  get shell("start " & MyFolderPath) -- uses Windows console to open folder
end Mouseup


I hope this is helpful...

- Mike

Mike Brown
Cyber-NY Interactive
212-475-2721
1-888-70-CYBER
mike at cyber-ny.com


> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:50:39 -0500
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> Shoot... I forgot to put in the "/" to ":" conversion that appleScript
> needs... thanks for catching this, Mike!
> 
> I've updated the code with a ConvertPath function in the tip at my site:
> 
> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_file009
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> 
> 
>> Ken,
>> 
>> I did find through trial and error that this Apple Script works from both
>> the Script Editor and my Rev Stack:
>> 
>> tell application "Finder"
>> activate
>> open folder "Users:cyberny:Desktop:MyFolder"
>> end tell
>> 
>> 
>> I found that replacing all "/" with ":" and eliminating the "Macintosh HD"
>> from the start of the path enabled the script to work.
>> 
>> Does that make sense??  I will test further but it seems to work.  I don't
>> know AppleScript so it's a bit sketchy.
>> 
>> Now I just need a Windows solution.
>> 
>> - Mike
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Mike Brown <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:12:25 -0400
>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>> 
>>> Ken,
>>> 
>>> When I run that script through the Apple Script Editor I get the
> following
>>> execution error:
>>> 
>>> Finder got an Error: Can't get folder "Macintosh HD"
>>> 
>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:28:31 -0500
>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>> 
>>>> Mike,
>>>> 
>>>> Try putting the script into Apple's Script editor (sans all the
> Transcript
>>>> stuff) and see if it works from there:
>>>> 
>>>> -- Suppose your hard disk is named "Macintosh HD"
>>>> 
>>>> tell application "Finder"
>>>> activate
>>>> open folder "Macintosh HD"
>>>> end tell
>>>> 
>>>> If this doesn't work, let me know...
>>>> 
>>>> Ken Ray
>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Still no luck.  I tried it on Mac OS 9.2, OSX and Win 98... no luck on
> all
>>>>> fronts.  I also tried minimizing the script for each specific OS to
> avoid
>>>>> mistakes but still no luck.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mac OS 9.2 the script does bring the Finder to the front but then
>>>> nothing
>>>>> else happens.  I created a test fld for the script and it is adding
> the
>>>>> appropriate path to the folder a sending the AppleScript message.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Mike
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0500
>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the "open
>>>> folder"
>>>>>> part of the applescript:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Try that and let me know,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I am
>>>>>>> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X and
> 9.2
>>>> for
>>>>>>> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script
>>>> accurately
>>>>>>> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but nothing
>>>> happens
>>>>>>> after that.  Any other ideas?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it
> on
>>>>>>>> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little sneaky
> as
>>>> it
>>>>>>>> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be
> posting
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> tip on my site tomorrow
>>>>>>>> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009) as
> my
>>>>>> FTP
>>>>>>>> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>>>>> answer folder "Get a folder:"
>>>>>>>> if it <> "" then
>>>>>>>> OpenFolder it
>>>>>>>> end if
>>>>>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> on OpenFolder pPath
>>>>>>>> switch (the platform)
>>>>>>>> case "Win32"
>>>>>>>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
>>>>>>>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>>>>>>>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
>>>>>>>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>> case "MacOS"
>>>>>>>> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
>>>>>>>> get shell("open " & pPath)
>>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
>>>>>>>> "activate" & cr & \
>>>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
>>>>>>>> "end tell" into tScript
>>>>>>>> do tScript as AppleScript
>>>>>>>> end if
>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>> end switch
>>>>>>>> end OpenFolder
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Enjoy!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Ken Ray
>>>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
>>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from
> Rev
>>>> in
>>>>>> Win
>>>>>>>>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder
> and
>>>>>> grab
>>>>>>>>> files while still in the Rev app.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Oct 24 13:06:22 2002
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup))
Date: Thu Oct 24 13:06:22 2002
Subject: SuperCard Now On OS X
In-Reply-To: <OF268979B8.8A694F43-ON85256C5C.005C8A87@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <B9DD8624.5F95%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 10/24/02 10:13 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com at
Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> Thanks for the update.  I noticed that on the web page at the bottom is a
> user comments area.
> I just had to post a plug for Revolution. See the post labeled "Cross
> Platform". There weren't any other references to Rev. It was like these
> people don't even know about it, and they have been waiting patiently for
> HyperCard to be ported to OS X. So sad.
----------
Most HC/SC programmers have written for Macs. Lots of them couldn't care
less about cross-platform, have no intentions of ever using PC's.

Best regards,
Ken N.



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 24 13:28:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct 24 13:28:01 2002
Subject: A method for opening folders from Rev
References: <B9DDAD40.CC47%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <015f01c27b89$b2d5fea0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Mike,

It looks like the "start" approach doesn't work on XP... it just opens
another DOS window with the path you're providing it. I guess those on XP
will have to do the "create alias" workaround I posted a few days ago.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 12:59 PM
Subject: A method for opening folders from Rev


> Just to put some closure on this issue, I was able to open a folder using
> the following scripts that Ken Ray and John Nunez helped with:
>
> Please Note:  These scripts are for opening a pre-designated folder from
> your Rev Stack or Standalone and will work from the Hard Drive or a
CD-ROM.
> If you want the user to select a folder, add the "Answer Folder" or "File"
> method.  These scripts also assume the folder path is relative to the
> Standalone path like on a CD-ROM.
>
> For Rev Stacks on Mac OS 8.6 - OS X:
>
> on MouseUp
>   global MyFolderPath
>   put the filename of this stack into MyFolderPath -- Gets the relative
path
>   set the itemdelimiter to"/"
>   delete the last item of MyFolderPath -- Deletes the name of your stack
>   put ":FolderName" after MyFolderPath -- adds your folder name
>   replace "/" with ":" in pAppPath -- makes path compatible with
AppleScript
>   put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
>   "activate" & cr & \
>   "open folder " & quote & MyFolderPath & quote & cr & \
>   "end tell" into tScript -- Assembles AppleScript
>   do tScript as AppleScript -- Sends AppleScript to Mac OS
> end MouseUp
>
>
> For Rev Stacks on Win OS (98, ME, 2000,) Not tested on XP:
>
> on Mouseup
>   global MyFolderPath
>   put the filename of this stack into MyFolderPath
>   set the itemdelimiter to"/"
>   delete the last item of MyFolderPath -- Deletes the name of your stack
>   put "\FolderName" after MyFolderPath -- adds your folder name
>   replace "/" with "\" in MyFolderPath -- makes path compatible Windows
>   set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>   get shell("start " & MyFolderPath) -- uses Windows console to open
folder
> end Mouseup
>
>
> I hope this is helpful...
>
> - Mike
>
> Mike Brown
> Cyber-NY Interactive
> 212-475-2721
> 1-888-70-CYBER
> mike at cyber-ny.com
>
>
> > From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> > Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> > Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:50:39 -0500
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >
> > Shoot... I forgot to put in the "/" to ":" conversion that appleScript
> > needs... thanks for catching this, Mike!
> >
> > I've updated the code with a ConvertPath function in the tip at my site:
> >
> > http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_file009
> >
> > Ken Ray
> > Sons of Thunder Software
> > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> > To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >
> >
> >> Ken,
> >>
> >> I did find through trial and error that this Apple Script works from
both
> >> the Script Editor and my Rev Stack:
> >>
> >> tell application "Finder"
> >> activate
> >> open folder "Users:cyberny:Desktop:MyFolder"
> >> end tell
> >>
> >>
> >> I found that replacing all "/" with ":" and eliminating the "Macintosh
HD"
> >> from the start of the path enabled the script to work.
> >>
> >> Does that make sense??  I will test further but it seems to work.  I
don't
> >> know AppleScript so it's a bit sketchy.
> >>
> >> Now I just need a Windows solution.
> >>
> >> - Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Mike Brown <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:12:25 -0400
> >>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>
> >>> Ken,
> >>>
> >>> When I run that script through the Apple Script Editor I get the
> > following
> >>> execution error:
> >>>
> >>> Finder got an Error: Can't get folder "Macintosh HD"
> >>>
> >>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> >>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:28:31 -0500
> >>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike,
> >>>>
> >>>> Try putting the script into Apple's Script editor (sans all the
> > Transcript
> >>>> stuff) and see if it works from there:
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Suppose your hard disk is named "Macintosh HD"
> >>>>
> >>>> tell application "Finder"
> >>>> activate
> >>>> open folder "Macintosh HD"
> >>>> end tell
> >>>>
> >>>> If this doesn't work, let me know...
> >>>>
> >>>> Ken Ray
> >>>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:20 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Ken,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Still no luck.  I tried it on Mac OS 9.2, OSX and Win 98... no luck
on
> > all
> >>>>> fronts.  I also tried minimizing the script for each specific OS to
> > avoid
> >>>>> mistakes but still no luck.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mac OS 9.2 the script does bring the Finder to the front but then
> >>>> nothing
> >>>>> else happens.  I created a test fld for the script and it is adding
> > the
> >>>>> appropriate path to the folder a sending the AppleScript message.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> >>>>>> Organization: Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>>>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0500
> >>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mike,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think you might need to add a colon to the path name in the "open
> >>>> folder"
> >>>>>> part of the applescript:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & ":" & quote & cr
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Try that and let me know,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ken Ray
> >>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:44 AM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Ken,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks for the Script.. I can't get it to work though.  maybe I am
> >>>>>>> implementing it incorrectly.  I am working on a Mac with OS X and
> > 9.2
> >>>> for
> >>>>>>> Classic mode.  I have also tested on a Win 98 PC.  The script
> >>>> accurately
> >>>>>>> selects the folder path and assembles the Apple Script but nothing
> >>>> happens
> >>>>>>> after that.  Any other ideas?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> Mike
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Mike,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You can do it completely with Transcript... here's a way to do it
> > on
> >>>>>>>> Windows, Mac OS X and OS 9. The Windows version is a little
sneaky
> > as
> >>>> it
> >>>>>>>> takes advantage of aliases, but it works nonethelss. I'll be
> > posting
> >>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>> tip on my site tomorrow
> >>>>>>>> (http://www.sonsothunder.com/revolution/revolution.htm?file009)
as
> > my
> >>>>>> FTP
> >>>>>>>> server is temporarily down, but in the meantime, here's the code:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> on mouseUp
> >>>>>>>> answer folder "Get a folder:"
> >>>>>>>> if it <> "" then
> >>>>>>>> OpenFolder it
> >>>>>>>> end if
> >>>>>>>> end mouseUp
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> on OpenFolder pPath
> >>>>>>>> switch (the platform)
> >>>>>>>> case "Win32"
> >>>>>>>> create alias "C:/Temp.lnk" to file pPath
> >>>>>>>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
> >>>>>>>> get shell("C:\Temp.lnk")
> >>>>>>>> delete file "C:/Temp.lnk"
> >>>>>>>> break
> >>>>>>>> case "MacOS"
> >>>>>>>> if the systemVersion >= 10 then
> >>>>>>>> get shell("open " & pPath)
> >>>>>>>> else
> >>>>>>>> put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
> >>>>>>>> "activate" & cr & \
> >>>>>>>> "open folder " & quote & pPath & quote & cr & \
> >>>>>>>> "end tell" into tScript
> >>>>>>>> do tScript as AppleScript
> >>>>>>>> end if
> >>>>>>>> break
> >>>>>>>> end switch
> >>>>>>>> end OpenFolder
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Enjoy!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ken Ray
> >>>>>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
> >>>>>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> >>>>>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>> From: "Mike Brown" <mike at cyber-ny.com>
> >>>>>>>> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:25 PM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Opening folders from Rev
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Anyone know a method for popping open a folder (directory) from
> > Rev
> >>>> in
> >>>>>> Win
> >>>>>>>>> and/or Mac OS?  I want to allow users of my app to open a folder
> > and
> >>>>>> grab
> >>>>>>>>> files while still in the Rev app.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>> Mike
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jhj at jhj.com  Thu Oct 24 14:31:01 2002
From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry J)
Date: Thu Oct 24 14:31:01 2002
Subject: A method for opening folders from Rev
References: <200210241729.NAA27341@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3DB8496B.50105@jhj.com>

Ken and Mike -

Could you guys trim the quotes in your replies please? The last 
digest was almost half just quotes in that thread. The last 
message had 10 quotes back (12k) of a message two earlier in the 
same digest.

Thanks,
Jerry Jensen



From kevin at runrev.com  Thu Oct 24 14:39:03 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Thu Oct 24 14:39:03 2002
Subject: Revolution 2.0 to ship in November
Message-ID: <B9DE09C9.C04C%kevin@runrev.com>

Hi Everyone,

Here is a copy of a press release we sent out just now.

If you prefer, you can skip straight to the information page and screen
shots at:

http://www.runrev.com/news/revolution20.html

Kind regards,

Kevin

----------------

PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT: REVOLUTION 2.0 TO SHIP IN NOVEMBER
Latest release with groundbreaking new features is in testing.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Edinburgh, Scotland, 24th October 2002

Runtime Revolution today announced that Revolution 2.0 will ship in
November.  Revolution is an easy to use, powerful, and fully-featured
multi-platform development tool.  The new release improves and adds to a
number of key areas: a Jaguar-friendly user interface, the built-in
documentation, spreadsheet fields, support for XML, Unicode, database
access, multimedia, and more.

More details about the 2.0 release, together with preview screenshots can be
found at http://www.runrev.com/news/revolution20.html.

Revolution's easy-to-use interface builder, powerful and English-like
programming language, built-in Internet and multimedia features all combine
to make it the ideal for writing software with ease.  Revolution has fully
supported all major platforms since version 1.0.  Developers can write a
single application that targets "classic" Mac OS and OS X, Windows, and
Linux (and other popular Unix flavors), supporting each operating system's
native look and feel -- with no code changes needed.

---- Revolution 2.0 Features ----

Revolution 2.0, scheduled for release in November 2002, continues Runtime
Revolution's mission to deliver the best in easy, rapid, application
development.  Version 2.0 builds on Revolution's proven ease and power,
bringing these major new features to Revolution's developer community:

- Brand new, Jaguar-friendly user interface
- Transcript Cookbook explaining a range of useful routines
- Unicode text entry and text manipulation
- Spreadsheet/table text fields
- New XML library for creating and parsing XML documents
- New SOAP support
- New report printing engine
- All-new integrated debugger including scripting support
- Improved database access on all platforms
- Windows of any size and shape on all platforms
- Fully Perl-compatible regular expressions
- MIDI music file creation and playing
- New sound-recording architecture
- Hundreds of other changes and enhancements

Holders of a Revolution Professional Edition license can download the 2.0
test release immediately.  Members of the press will shortly be able to
obtain a preview version.  Anyone who buys the Revolution 1.1.1 between
October 24th, 2002 and the release date for version 2.0 will be entitled to
a free upgrade to version 2.0 when it becomes available in November.

ABOUT REVOLUTION

The Revolution development environment is a breakthrough for anyone who
writes and designs computer software. Revolution enables developers to
easily and quickly create powerful Internet-enabled applications and
solutions which can be delivered on Linux, Mac OS X, classic Mac OS,
Windows, and popular UNIX systems.  Licensing options include the $299 Small
Business Edition, the $99 Student-Teacher Edition, the $995 Professional
Edition, and the downloadable Free Edition, which limits the size and
complexity of code but is otherwise fully enabled. Educational and site
license discounts are also available. Revolution is currently used by
corporations, small businesses, independent developers, educators, and
hobbyists worldwide.

ABOUT RUNTIME REVOLUTION LTD

Runtime Revolution Ltd is committed to the development of cutting-edge
professional programming software and engaging educational applications.
For more information about the company and its products, visit the Runtime
Revolution website at <http://www.runrev.com> or email info at runrev.com.

###

Magazines are welcome to include the Free Edition on cover and promotional
CDs free of charge. Contact rod at runrev.com to obtain a free license for
distribution.

Members of the press will shortly be invited to review a Revolution 2.0
preview.  Contact rod at runrev.com if you would like to be contacted when this
preview is available.

Revolution and Runtime Revolution are trademarks of Runtime Revolution Ltd.
Other company and product names are trademarks of their respective owners.

CONTACT
Rod McCall
Runtime Revolution Ltd.
rod at runrev.com
http://www.runrev.com/
Phone: +44 (0) 870 747 1165
Fax: +44 (0) 131 718 4334



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 24 16:57:02 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct 24 16:57:02 2002
Subject: A method for opening folders from Rev
References: <200210241729.NAA27341@www.runrev.com> <3DB8496B.50105@jhj.com>
Message-ID: <017201c27ba6$e2e0b500$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

No problem, Jerry. Sorry...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry J" <jhj at jhj.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: A method for opening folders from Rev


> Ken and Mike -
> 
> Could you guys trim the quotes in your replies please? The last 
> digest was almost half just quotes in that thread. The last 
> message had 10 quotes back (12k) of a message two earlier in the 
> same digest.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jerry Jensen
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From brasmussen at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 24 21:24:01 2002
From: brasmussen at earthlink.net (Bob Rasmussen)
Date: Thu Oct 24 21:24:01 2002
Subject: composing connection string for ODBC
References: <200210211601.MAA20121@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3DB8A9FA.C0C8154A@earthlink.net>

> Trying to make my ODBC connection strings dynamically modifiable, but I have a
> problem.
>
> Here's the code
>
>     put quote & the text of button btnDbType & quote into DbType
>     put quote & the text of field fdDsn & quote into Dsn
>     put quote & the text of field fdUsername & quote into Username
>     put quote & the cpPassword of field fdDsn & quote into thePassword
>     answer DbType,Dsn,Username,thePassword
>     get revdb_connect(DbType,Dsn,,Username,thePassword)
>     --get revdb_connect("ODBC","ibXTGLocal",,"aUser","aPassword")
>
> If I perform the connection with the commented code it works.
>
> The answer command shows "ODBC","ibXTGLocal",,"aUser","aPassword".
>
> BUT... the connection fails if the connect string consists of the variables
> rather than the literal strings.  This is the case even if I remove the '&
> quote' constants from the values inserted into the variables.
>
> Any suggestions why my code does not work?

I tripped over this one myself a while back.  Check the Transcript dictionary and
you'll see that revdb_connect() requires variable *names*, not variables.  Pretty
subtle.

RR




From tony.moller at drcs.com  Thu Oct 24 21:56:00 2002
From: tony.moller at drcs.com (Tony Moller)
Date: Thu Oct 24 21:56:00 2002
Subject: Revolution 2.0 to ship in November
In-Reply-To: <B9DE09C9.C04C%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9DE2978.2D2C6%tony.moller@drcs.com>

on 10/24/02 3:34 PM, Kevin Miller at kevin at runrev.com wrote:

> Holders of a Revolution Professional Edition license can download the 2.0
> test release immediately.  Members of the press will shortly be able to
> obtain a preview version.  Anyone who buys the Revolution 1.1.1 between
> October 24th, 2002 and the release date for version 2.0 will be entitled to
> a free upgrade to version 2.0 when it becomes available in November.

What does that mean for holders of the small business dev edition? Will we
have to purchase a new 2.0 copy? I though our license entitled us to one
year of upgrades.

Tony
------------------------------------
Tony Moller - Network Admin
DRCS
6849 Old Dominion Drive - Suite 320
McLean, VA 22101
Tel: 703-749-3118 Fax: 703-749-0967
Pgr: 703-719-5324 <7037195324 at my2way.com>



From glenbledsoe at mac.com  Thu Oct 24 22:39:01 2002
From: glenbledsoe at mac.com (Glen Bledsoe)
Date: Thu Oct 24 22:39:01 2002
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #799 - 7 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200210241729.NAA27341@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8E738B88-E7CA-11D6-BB76-000393BD6A50@mac.com>

On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 10:29 AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

>  the list mom for the SC list
> censors posts that mention competing products...

That's odd. I think I first heard of Revolution on the SC List.

Glen



From michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk  Fri Oct 25 03:08:00 2002
From: michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk (Michael Kristensen)
Date: Fri Oct 25 03:08:00 2002
Subject: No starterkit for 2.0?
In-Reply-To: <200210241730.NAA27408@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <08DBEB56-E7F0-11D6-AB02-0050E405EA7D@dsa-net.dk>

Hi all

This is from the 2.0 info page:

"Everyone else will be able to download a free 30 day trial version 
when we ship in November."

No Starterkit anymore?

Kind regards
Michael Kristensen
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From gary.rathbone at btclick.com  Fri Oct 25 03:19:01 2002
From: gary.rathbone at btclick.com (Gary Rathbone)
Date: Fri Oct 25 03:19:01 2002
Subject: Revolution 2.0 to ship in November
In-Reply-To: <B9DE2978.2D2C6%tony.moller@drcs.com>
Message-ID: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGEEDHCGAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>

As far as I'm concerned my Small Businesss Rev Licence (purchased in July)
will allow me to upgrade for free quote "(snip)... It includes all updates
or upgrades for one year after date of purchase. As with all other license
types, the software does not expire after one year but you do have to pay
again to get further updates."

I assume that the statement regarding purchases from October 24th to the
release date is to reasssure potential purchasers that they can buy  Rev NOW
and won't have to pay for the upgrade. This means the Rev team aren't
cutting off their revenue source by making people wait until November.

Regards

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
Chartered Information Systems Practitioner


on 10/24/02 3:34 PM, Kevin Miller at kevin at runrev.com wrote:

> Holders of a Revolution Professional Edition license can download the 2.0
> test release immediately.  Members of the press will shortly be able to
> obtain a preview version.  Anyone who buys the Revolution 1.1.1 between
> October 24th, 2002 and the release date for version 2.0 will be entitled
to
> a free upgrade to version 2.0 when it becomes available in November.

What does that mean for holders of the small business dev edition? Will we
have to purchase a new 2.0 copy? I though our license entitled us to one
year of upgrades.

Tony
------------------------------------
Tony Moller - Network Admin
DRCS
6849 Old Dominion Drive - Suite 320
McLean, VA 22101
Tel: 703-749-3118 Fax: 703-749-0967
Pgr: 703-719-5324 <7037195324 at my2way.com>

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Fri Oct 25 04:15:01 2002
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic Thebault)
Date: Fri Oct 25 04:15:01 2002
Subject: No starterkit for 2.0?
References: <08DBEB56-E7F0-11D6-AB02-0050E405EA7D@dsa-net.dk>
Message-ID: <3DB9007C.6080002@laposte.net>

> This is from the 2.0 info page:
> 
> "Everyone else will be able to download a free 30 day trial version when we ship in November."
> 
> No Starterkit anymore? 

Read in Kevin Miller message :
  Licensing options include the $299 Small
Business Edition, the $99 Student-Teacher Edition, the $995 Professional
Edition, and the downloadable Free Edition, which limits the size and
complexity of code but is otherwise fully enabled.



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 25 04:23:02 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri Oct 25 04:23:02 2002
Subject: No starterkit for 2.0?
In-Reply-To: <08DBEB56-E7F0-11D6-AB02-0050E405EA7D@dsa-net.dk>
Message-ID: <20021025091757.65079.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Kristensen <michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk>
wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> This is from the 2.0 info page:
> 
> "Everyone else will be able to download a free 30
> day trial version 
> when we ship in November."
> 
> No Starterkit anymore?
> 
> Kind regards
> Michael Kristensen


Hi Michael,

A little bird whispered that the starter kit has been
changed so that after downloading the trial version,
one would have _full_ functionality for the first 30
days, and that it would revert to 'Starter Kit'
afterwards.
As the bird promptly flew out the window again, there
was no way of wringing more infor out of it, nor of
confirming it -- that is, if you believe in talking
birds in the first place, but that's an entirely
different matter.
Hmm, As the Apple Turns is back on the air -- does it
show in my posts?

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


From kevin at runrev.com  Fri Oct 25 05:50:01 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri Oct 25 05:50:01 2002
Subject: Revolution 2.0 to ship in November
In-Reply-To: <IDELJJOBILDEKAEHEILGEEDHCGAA.gary.rathbone@btclick.com>
Message-ID: <B9DEDE62.C0FC%kevin@runrev.com>

On 25/10/02 9:11 am, Gary Rathbone <gary.rathbone at btclick.com> wrote:

> As far as I'm concerned my Small Businesss Rev Licence (purchased in July)
> will allow me to upgrade for free quote "(snip)... It includes all updates
> or upgrades for one year after date of purchase. As with all other license
> types, the software does not expire after one year but you do have to pay
> again to get further updates."
> 
> I assume that the statement regarding purchases from October 24th to the
> release date is to reasssure potential purchasers that they can buy  Rev NOW
> and won't have to pay for the upgrade. This means the Rev team aren't
> cutting off their revenue source by making people wait until November.

Right.  The press release was targeted primarily at non-Rev users and had to
be worded in a way they would expect.  Licenses purchased any time up to a
year ago get this update free.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From kevin at runrev.com  Fri Oct 25 05:50:25 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri Oct 25 05:50:25 2002
Subject: No starterkit for 2.0?
In-Reply-To: <20021025091757.65079.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B9DEDED3.C0FD%kevin@runrev.com>

On 25/10/02 10:17 am, Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> A little bird whispered that the starter kit has been
> changed so that after downloading the trial version,
> one would have _full_ functionality for the first 30
> days, and that it would revert to 'Starter Kit'
> afterwards.
> As the bird promptly flew out the window again, there
> was no way of wringing more infor out of it, nor of
> confirming it -- that is, if you believe in talking
> birds in the first place, but that's an entirely
> different matter.
> Hmm, As the Apple Turns is back on the air -- does it
> show in my posts?

In 2.0 there will be a 30 day trial edition called the Evaluation Edition,
and the starter kit edition is being renamed as the Free Edition.  The
latter is clearer and better reflects what this edition is for.  The 30 day
trial will have the drawback of requiring an Internet connection to run on
startup.  It will revert to the Free Edition when 30 days is up, or any time
it can't get an Internet connection.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From jameslewes at comcast.net  Fri Oct 25 06:18:00 2002
From: jameslewes at comcast.net (james lewes)
Date: Fri Oct 25 06:18:00 2002
Subject: No starterkit for 2.0?
In-Reply-To: <08DBEB56-E7F0-11D6-AB02-0050E405EA7D@dsa-net.dk>
Message-ID: <B9DE9F56.4B94%jameslewes@comcast.net>

Will people who bought a license in September be able to upgrade to 2.0 for
free

> From: Michael Kristensen <michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk>
> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:01:58 +0200
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: No starterkit for 2.0?
> 
> Hi all
> 
> This is from the 2.0 info page:
> 
> "Everyone else will be able to download a free 30 day trial version
> when we ship in November."
> 
> No Starterkit anymore?
> 
> Kind regards
> Michael Kristensen



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Fri Oct 25 08:18:01 2002
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Fri Oct 25 08:18:01 2002
Subject: OSX Login items
In-Reply-To: <B9DC64A5.CBEC%mike@cyber-ny.com>
References: <B9DC64A5.CBEC%mike@cyber-ny.com>
Message-ID: <v04220802b9def3c3735f@[10.0.1.2]>

Anyone know how to script the addition of a Rev app to
the "Login Items" of the "System Preferences" in OSX?

(iow get it to run at startup on OSX)

tia

sims


From robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk  Fri Oct 25 09:07:01 2002
From: robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk (Robin Banerjee)
Date: Fri Oct 25 09:07:01 2002
Subject: help! all cards are blank
Message-ID: <B9DF0D2A.ED3%robinb@cogs.susx.ac.uk>

Dear Ken, 

Thanks for the reply.  But no, I didn't move the stack.  And it wasn't just
referenced files that were not displaying -- every card was completely
blank, even though I could access buttons, fields, players etc. through the
message box.  Fortunately, when I copied all the cards to a new stack they
all displayed correctly.  But it's still a puzzle to me - the original stack
still is a bunch of blank cards!

Robin  

>Robin,
>
>Did you recently move the stack somewhere? If so, it's possible that
>referenced images have file paths that are no longer valid...
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robin Banerjee" <robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 6:55 AM
>Subject: help! all cards are blank
>
>
>> Can anyone help me, please?!!!  The stack I've been working on for a while
>> now doesn't show anything.  Everything is there, sounds play etc., but all
>> cards display blank.
>>
>> I had been editing a sound file which I use in the app at the time, if
>> that's relevant.
>>
>> Any help would be much appreciated!!
>>
>> Robin
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr Robin Banerjee
>> Email: robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk
-- 
Dr Robin Banerjee
Psychology Group
School of Cognitive & Computing Sciences
University of Sussex
Falmer, Brighton BN1 9QH
UK

Tel.    +44 1273 877222
Fax.    +44 1273 671320
Email   robinb at cogs.susx.ac.uk
URL     http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/robinb




From Mike at Doub.com  Fri Oct 25 09:14:01 2002
From: Mike at Doub.com (Mike Doub)
Date: Fri Oct 25 09:14:01 2002
Subject: Dynamic Animation
In-Reply-To: <LOBBKHHMGNHFHNPEJJLBIECFCNAA.Mike@Doub.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBKHHMGNHFHNPEJJLBEEEACNAA.Mike@Doub.com>

Is no-one using animation in revolution?  This is surprising.

 -- Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Mike Doub
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:26 AM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Dynamic Animation

Is there anyway to build animations dynamically?   I am trying to figure out
if I can do animations similar to what is being done within "theBrain".
Check out this web site and see how the animation looks:
http://www.thebrain.com.  The effect is similar to having "fields" pasted
onto a ball and you rotate the ball by clicking on a field and causing that
field to move to the center of the display.  All of the other "fields" shift
to their new location relative to the new centered "field".

If there is no programmatic interface that will allow animations to be built
on the fly I am then going to be looking for suggestions as to how one might
try doing animations without the animation manager?

Thanks in advance,
   Mike


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From kevin at runrev.com  Fri Oct 25 09:18:00 2002
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri Oct 25 09:18:00 2002
Subject: Dynamic Animation
In-Reply-To: <LOBBKHHMGNHFHNPEJJLBEEEACNAA.Mike@Doub.com>
Message-ID: <B9DF1003.C134%kevin@runrev.com>

On 25/10/02 3:08 pm, Mike Doub <Mike at doub.com> wrote:

> Is no-one using animation in revolution?  This is surprising.

I would check out the "move" command and the animated GIF features, you can
script both of them.

Kevin

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com/>
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Oct 25 09:29:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri Oct 25 09:29:01 2002
Subject: OSX Login items
In-Reply-To: <v04220802b9def3c3735f@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <30D0D89A-E825-11D6-908D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 07:15 AM, sims wrote:

> Anyone know how to script the addition of a Rev app to
> the "Login Items" of the "System Preferences" in OSX?
>
> (iow get it to run at startup on OSX)

I think it was Bill Vlahos who pointed me to some Apple web pages with this 
info for login.  It is in the archive, no doubt.  IIRC, you put the 
executable and a couple text files in a folder.  The text files are XML 
definitions (not XML), I think.

Do you want startup or login?

The methods are a little different (and I may be confusing the two, above)
.  The GUI may not be ready for the first and the application might fail.  
(One would hope gui calls would simply be ignored.)

I better shut up and let Bill explain.

Dar



From trevor at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Oct 25 09:40:01 2002
From: trevor at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri Oct 25 09:40:01 2002
Subject: Picture Brightness on Windows
In-Reply-To: <B9DF1003.C134%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BB6DC1CF-E826-11D6-B02A-00039376023C@mangomultimedia.com>

Hi,

I have an image viewer application that reads images from a directory 
and allows the user to browse them.  I had two testers working on 
Windows with the program who noticed that the images were darker inside 
the viewer then when displayed with the default windows image viewing 
application.  This is what we have found so far:
1) On my old Micron box running Windows 2000 the images look the same 
no matter what program I open them in - Photoshop, Windows Image 
Viewer, My imaging application, etc.
2) A new Gateway Laptop running Windows XP displays the images much 
darker inside my image viewer then they display in the default windows 
image viewer application and IE explorer.
3) A custom built tower running Windows XP displays images slightly 
darker in all non-Microsoft apps.  PhotoSuite and my image viewer 
display pictures slightly darker then the Microsoft apps.

These are all the machines we have tested it on so far and I am 
wondering if it has anything to do with XP.  Has anyone else 
experienced something similar or now what might be causing this?  
Better yet, is there a fix?

Thanks,

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Fri Oct 25 11:02:01 2002
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Fri Oct 25 11:02:01 2002
Subject: OSX Login items
In-Reply-To: <30D0D89A-E825-11D6-908D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
References: <30D0D89A-E825-11D6-908D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <v04220801b9df1a5dba7c@[10.0.1.2]>

Thanks Dar,

/User/Library/Preference/loginwindow.plist

sims




>>Anyone know how to script the addition of a Rev app to
>>the "Login Items" of the "System Preferences" in OSX?
>
>At 8:22 -0600 10/25/2002, Dar Scott wrote:
>>
>>I think it was Bill Vlahos who pointed me to some Apple web pages 
>>with this info for login.  It is in the archive, no doubt.  IIRC, 
>>you put the executable and a couple text files in a folder.  The 
>>text files are XML definitions (not XML), I think.




From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 25 12:41:00 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri Oct 25 12:41:00 2002
Subject: Picture Brightness on Windows
In-Reply-To: <BB6DC1CF-E826-11D6-B02A-00039376023C@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOKEIOCIAA.chipp@chipp.com>

> I have an image viewer application that reads images from a directory
> and allows the user to browse them.  I had two testers working on
> Windows with the program who noticed that the images were darker inside
> the viewer then when displayed with the default windows image viewing
> application.

Trevor,

Most PC computers these days ship with a gamma display control which resides
in the advanced tab of your display settings. Different monitor/driver
combinations can display different gammas -- especially LCD's. There are
also differences in gamma settings between PCs and Macs.

best,

Chipp



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 25 12:41:28 2002
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri Oct 25 12:41:28 2002
Subject: Dynamic Animation
In-Reply-To: <LOBBKHHMGNHFHNPEJJLBIECFCNAA.Mike@Doub.com>
Message-ID: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOMEIOCIAA.chipp@chipp.com>

>
> Is there anyway to build animations dynamically?   I am trying to
> figure out
> if I can do animations similar to what is being done within "theBrain".
> Check out this web site and see how the animation looks:
> http://www.thebrain.com.

> If there is no programmatic interface that will allow animations
> to be built
> on the fly I am then going to be looking for suggestions as to
> how one might
> try doing animations without the animation manager?

Mike,

This type of interface is most definitely possible to do in RR/MC. But, you
would need to create a script to generate the different 'move' commands
based on where you clicked. I'd probably create an array which described the
relationships between the data, then render the fields on the fly. Get it
working without the animation first (click on a field and it redraws the
other fields) then add the 'move to' animation capability.

-chipp



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 25 12:49:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri Oct 25 12:49:01 2002
Subject: Picture Brightness on Windows
In-Reply-To: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOKEIOCIAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <20021025174331.15733.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
> 
> > I have an image viewer application that reads
> images from a directory
> > and allows the user to browse them.  I had two
> testers working on
> > Windows with the program who noticed that the
> images were darker inside
> > the viewer then when displayed with the default
> windows image viewing
> > application.
> 
> Trevor,
> 
> Most PC computers these days ship with a gamma
> display control which resides
> in the advanced tab of your display settings.
> Different monitor/driver
> combinations can display different gammas --
> especially LCD's. There are
> also differences in gamma settings between PCs and
> Macs.
> 

Not to mention the fact that there is no equivalent to
MacOS' ColorSync in Windows, so there's an even bigger
chance of things displaying differently on different
machines, or even the same machines if the
applications are using different graphic worlds.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 25 12:56:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri Oct 25 12:56:01 2002
Subject: Picture Brightness on Windows
In-Reply-To: <EJEKIIHDOMKODEBKONOOKEIOCIAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <B9DED2A9.1ED46%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:

> 
>> I have an image viewer application that reads images from a directory
>> and allows the user to browse them.  I had two testers working on
>> Windows with the program who noticed that the images were darker inside
>> the viewer then when displayed with the default windows image viewing
>> application.
> 
> Trevor,
> 
> Most PC computers these days ship with a gamma display control which resides
> in the advanced tab of your display settings. Different monitor/driver
> combinations can display different gammas -- especially LCD's. There are
> also differences in gamma settings between PCs and Macs.

Compensating for Apple's seeming need for novelty, I set my Mac to use the
Windows gamma.  You can do this in the Color tab of the Monitors control
panel, as part of the calibration process.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From mmaitzen at iupui.edu  Fri Oct 25 13:41:01 2002
From: mmaitzen at iupui.edu (Maitzen, Michael R.)
Date: Fri Oct 25 13:41:01 2002
Subject: Revolution 2.0 to ship in November
Message-ID: <8F38A22EC36A0948B854417D7EC91E0308F243@iu-mssg-mbx01.exchange.iu.edu>

Sounds like a lot of great new features. What does this mean for those of us who purchased the printed manuals. Will there be addendum's? new printing? extra cost?

MRM



> PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT: REVOLUTION 2.0 TO SHIP IN NOVEMBER
> Latest release with groundbreaking new features is in testing.
> 
> 
> 


From trevor at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Oct 25 14:19:01 2002
From: trevor at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri Oct 25 14:19:01 2002
Subject: Picture Brightness on Windows
In-Reply-To: <20021025174331.15733.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CB595B0E-E84D-11D6-9D43-00039376023C@mangomultimedia.com>

On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 01:43 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> Not to mention the fact that there is no equivalent to
> MacOS' ColorSync in Windows, so there's an even bigger
> chance of things displaying differently on different
> machines, or even the same machines if the
> applications are using different graphic worlds.

Thanks for the responses everyone.  The possibility of using different 
graphic worlds seems to be the most likely problem based on the 
problems we are experiencing.  Seeing as on my Windows machine the 
images look the same in all applications whereas on another windows 
machine different applications display the images darker or lighter 
than in other programs.

A way to fix the problem would be to have some sort of gamma or 
brightness slider but from what I have read in the archives there 
doesn't seem to be an easy way to make such an adjustment slider.  Is 
that true or has anyone come up with a method for doing so?

Thanks again,

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Oct 25 14:56:01 2002
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri Oct 25 14:56:01 2002
Subject: Picture Brightness on Windows
In-Reply-To: <CB595B0E-E84D-11D6-9D43-00039376023C@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <B9DEEEC0.4D0E%scott@tactilemedia.com>

> Thanks for the responses everyone.  The possibility of using different
> graphic worlds seems to be the most likely problem based on the
> problems we are experiencing.  Seeing as on my Windows machine the
> images look the same in all applications whereas on another windows
> machine different applications display the images darker or lighter
> than in other programs.
> 
> A way to fix the problem would be to have some sort of gamma or
> brightness slider but from what I have read in the archives there
> doesn't seem to be an easy way to make such an adjustment slider.  Is
> that true or has anyone come up with a method for doing so?

Just a second opinion...  If you're trying to sync up displays in a single
location (ie your office) then this might be worth attempting.  But
otherwise, I would say you're probably chasing your tail.  In addition to
overall gamma, you will have to contend with monitor-specific
brightness/contrast settings, not to mention the fact that some people don't
even know how to change the number of colors displayed (256 vs 16 or 24 bit)
or even that they *can* change the color depth.

In any event, you can do some hacked display manipulation using a
translucent image object (white, black or grey) and changing its blendLevel.
There are also ink effects that can be employed to achieve other color mix
variations.  Off hand I would guess that a brightness slider would display a
translucent white overlay for values from 0 to +100, and black for 0 to
-100. With some experimentation, you might be able to achieve what you need.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From snharper at cs.uchicago.edu  Fri Oct 25 15:18:01 2002
From: snharper at cs.uchicago.edu (sean nicholas harper)
Date: Fri Oct 25 15:18:01 2002
Subject: Message watcher window
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210251512030.8620-100000@abyss.cs.uchicago.edu>

I am a recent hypercard refugee. Is there a message watcher window in
runrev?  I cant find it.



From alanIra9 at mac.com  Sat Oct 26 09:31:00 2002
From: alanIra9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Sat Oct 26 09:31:00 2002
Subject: RovingPopup button
In-Reply-To: <15CD987C-E5AF-11D6-9A14-000393158950@mac.com>
Message-ID: <DB82144B-E8EE-11D6-9746-000393158950@mac.com>


On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 07:12  AM, Alan Gayne wrote:

> That said, your little tip on the popup problem pointed me in the 
> right direction and inspired me to develop a little trick which allows 
> any object that can receive a mouseDown message to serve as a popup 
> menu button.  This uses single, invisible "rovingPopup" button, a bit 
> of script and a tiny modal stack which allows the contents of the menu 
> list to be modified dynamically by the user.

Good morning listees:

Just a heads up to advise that last night I forwarded the 
aforementioned "rovingPopup" button stack to RunRev for inclusion in 
the User Contribution section.  As this is my first contribution, I'm 
not real sure how long it will take for this doodad to be posted but 
hopefully it will be soon.

Kind regards,
Alan
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From wow at together.net  Sat Oct 26 16:15:01 2002
From: wow at together.net (Richard D. Miller)
Date: Sat Oct 26 16:15:01 2002
Subject: Video recording
In-Reply-To: <000701c4858e$14a7ad80$3a0a8fd0@cpq>
Message-ID: <B9E07CC4.34307%wow@together.net>

Has anybody been working with the videograbber functionality in Rev? We've
just started playing around with this and are encountering a number of
issues. In particular, any mousedown action of any kind seems to stop the
video recording. Anyone had experience with this?

Thanks.
Richard Miller
Advanced Training Systems
802-238-5355



From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Sat Oct 26 16:57:01 2002
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (Bernard Devlin)
Date: Sat Oct 26 16:57:01 2002
Subject: composing connection string for ODBC
Message-ID: <200210262056.QAA16223@www.runrev.com>

 
Hi Bob,
Thanks for helping out... I spent hours trying to figure this out before I
asked for help. 

But it looks like the problem was right in front of my eyes - I just couldn't
see it (literally!)

There was a return in the field where the variable Dsn was getting its value
from.  When this came up in the Answer dialog, I was just assuming that the
answer dialog was wrapping the text (duh! see my later remark on longevity)
When I actually used the debugger, I could inspect the values of the variables.
Finally I could see that the Dsn was not recognized.

However, it didn't help that the error message that was returned was not
displayed by Rev.  I could see the error dialog flash up, but it was only there
for a microsecond.

One thing I have learned in working with Rev, is that what seems like an error
from the engine or Transcript is 99.9% of the time not the case.  I think it is
one of the fantastic things about Rev having it's basis in Metacard (and
Hypertalk) is that the longevity of the language and engine have been honed.
I'm sure that the bug in the error dialog that means that it only stays there for
a second will also be removed (I presume that this is something in Rev itself).

I have never had so much pleasure working with any language or development
environment in over 20 years :-)) 

> >     get revdb_connect(DbType,Dsn,,Username,thePassword)
> >     --get revdb_connect("ODBC","ibXTGLocal",,"aUser","aPassword")
> >
> > If I perform the connection with the commented code it works.
> >
> > The answer command shows "ODBC","ibXTGLocal",,"aUser","aPassword".
> >
> > BUT... the connection fails if the connect string consists of the variables
> > rather than the literal strings.  This is the case even if I remove the '&
> > quote' constants from the values inserted into the variables.
> >
> > Any suggestions why my code does not work?
> 
> I tripped over this one myself a while back.  Check the Transcript dictionary and
> you'll see that revdb_connect() requires variable *names*, not variables.  Pretty
> subtle.


From jeanne at runrev.com  Sun Oct 27 01:50:01 2002
From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun Oct 27 01:50:01 2002
Subject: Revolution 2.0 to ship in November
In-Reply-To: <B9DE2978.2D2C6%tony.moller@drcs.com>
References: <B9DE09C9.C04C%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <v03130310b9dff9c0bee5@[10.0.1.2]>

At 7:49 PM -0700 10/24/2002, Tony Moller wrote:
>on 10/24/02 3:34 PM, Kevin Miller at kevin at runrev.com wrote:
>> obtain a preview version.  Anyone who buys the Revolution 1.1.1 between
>> October 24th, 2002 and the release date for version 2.0 will be entitled to
>> a free upgrade to version 2.0 when it becomes available in November.
>
>What does that mean for holders of the small business dev edition? Will we
>have to purchase a new 2.0 copy? I though our license entitled us to one
>year of upgrades.


It does, and you will not need to re-purchase if you've bought a license
within 1 year before the release. (The sentence in the press release is
intended to emphasize that the upgrade is free if you buy 1.1.1 now, for
readers who aren't familiar with Rev licensing.)

Sorry for the confusion!

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/




From themacguy at macosx.com  Sun Oct 27 10:36:01 2002
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Sun Oct 27 10:36:01 2002
Subject: DiscBurner?
Message-ID: <4EFE8191-E9C9-11D6-8D1C-000393AAEF66@macosx.com>

Is it possible to control Apple's Disc Burner software from within 
Revolution? I would like to backup my application's data files in as 
"automatic" a manner as possible as the (novice) users never seem quite 
capable of doing this. I'd like to do something on the order of "Ready 
to backup your data files. Please insert a writable disc now." and then 
have the CD-burner's drawer open and waiting for a blank disc.

So I guess my questions are manifold: Can this be done natively within 
Rev or is some kind of external or plug-in required? If the latter, 
does anyone know of a source for such an item?

Thanks,
Barry



From bvg at mac.com  Sun Oct 27 10:55:01 2002
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sun Oct 27 10:55:01 2002
Subject: DiscBurner?
In-Reply-To: <4EFE8191-E9C9-11D6-8D1C-000393AAEF66@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <14439E5C-E9CC-11D6-8A0B-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

On Sonntag, Okt 27, 2002, at 17:29 Europe/Zurich, Barry Levine wrote:

> Is it possible to control Apple's Disc Burner software from within 
> Revolution?

Try applescript to do this, i have never used it really, but it should 
be possible to do so, as both the Finder and Disk Copy are scriptable. 
If you wait until monday then you will certainly get an answer which 
includes a nice script example on how to burn something under Mac OS 9 
and OS X ;)



From menno at libero.it  Sun Oct 27 12:34:01 2002
From: menno at libero.it (=?utf-8?Q?menno@libero.it?=)
Date: Sun Oct 27 12:34:01 2002
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_Revolution_2.0_to_ship_in_November?=
Message-ID: <H4NKO0$2086D32D17C7BECEC75B8B32849A64A6@libero.it>

NOVEMBER WHEN?
GIVE US AT LEAST THE WEEK IN WHICH REV 2.0 WILL BE AVAILABLE...

Piero Menno


> PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT: REVOLUTION 2.0 TO SHIP IN NOVEMBER
> Latest release with groundbreaking new features is in testing.
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





From betypaul at arvotek.net  Sun Oct 27 12:50:00 2002
From: betypaul at arvotek.net (Paul Conover)
Date: Sun Oct 27 12:50:00 2002
Subject: fonts in standalone
Message-ID: <96154B40-E9DA-11D6-AEF9-0050E456D376@arvotek.net>

Hi
Is there a way to include a special font in my standalones?

Paul



From katir at hindu.org  Sun Oct 27 12:56:10 2002
From: katir at hindu.org (Sannyasin Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun Oct 27 12:56:10 2002
Subject: Converting dates to Padded SQL format
Message-ID: <DD46762E-E9DC-11D6-988C-003065FB9830@hindu.org>

What is the most direct way to get from the long date (minus the day) 
to the fully padded RPT scripting language SQL format.

We want  to convert

April 15, 1998

into

04/15/1998

This doesn't seem doable in a single convert operation in xTalk
I an need to compare records in a text database with a postGre
Sql data base records where the date field in one is

text record field: April 4, 2001

and the other is

SQL field: 04/04/2001

Of course I can write a function to parse the long date and build the 
SQL formatted padded date with the long year... but, was hoping there 
was as more direct function. i don't see the long date return edin any 
numeric date format....could be missing something.

Thanks

Himalayan Academy Publications
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Editor's Assistant/Production Manager
katir at hindu.org
www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org



From bvg at mac.com  Sun Oct 27 14:02:01 2002
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sun Oct 27 14:02:01 2002
Subject: DiscBurner?
In-Reply-To: <4EFE8191-E9C9-11D6-8D1C-000393AAEF66@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <DC765E13-E9CB-11D6-8A0B-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

On Sonntag, Okt 27, 2002, at 17:29 Europe/Zurich, Barry Levine wrote:

> Is it possible to control Apple's Disc Burner software from within 
> Revolution?

Try applescript to do this, i have never used it really, but it should 
be possible to do so, as both the Finder and Disk Copy are scriptable. 
If you wait until monday then you will certainly get an answer which 
includes a nice script example on how to burn something under Mac OS 9 
and OS X ;)



From bvg at mac.com  Sun Oct 27 14:02:26 2002
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sun Oct 27 14:02:26 2002
Subject: DiscBurner?
In-Reply-To: <4EFE8191-E9C9-11D6-8D1C-000393AAEF66@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <14439E5C-E9CC-11D6-8A0B-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

On Sonntag, Okt 27, 2002, at 17:29 Europe/Zurich, Barry Levine wrote:

> Is it possible to control Apple's Disc Burner software from within 
> Revolution?

Try applescript to do this, i have never used it really, but it should 
be possible to do so, as both the Finder and Disk Copy are scriptable. 
If you wait until monday then you will certainly get an answer which 
includes a nice script example on how to burn something under Mac OS 9 
and OS X ;)



From xslaugh at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 27 17:04:01 2002
From: xslaugh at hotmail.com (Scott Slaugh)
Date: Sun Oct 27 17:04:01 2002
Subject: Message watcher window
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210251512030.8620-100000@abyss.cs.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <OE72maEqxGGmNN79xav000039cb@hotmail.com>

> I am a recent hypercard refugee. Is there a message watcher window in
> runrev?  I cant find it.

I was noticing that on the Revolution website it was saying that a new
feature of version 2.0 would be an "All-new integrated debugger, message and
variable watcher."

Scott Slaugh


From bfr at nwlink.com  Sun Oct 27 22:09:01 2002
From: bfr at nwlink.com (Bruce Robertson)
Date: Sun Oct 27 22:09:01 2002
Subject: Mouse lock
In-Reply-To: <0BD0BCFC-DFE1-11D6-A4F1-0050E4CE1D03@babelfix.com>
Message-ID: <B9E1F700.55D0%bfr@nwlink.com>

I purchased Revolution at MacWorld SF 2001 last January. I am finally trying
to go through the tutorial.

However, the tutorial says you can use the option key to copy text from the
tutorial window. This does not work.

Once you have depressed the option key, Revolution never thinks you have let
it go. The application locks up completely, and the only thing that happens
is that if you hover over the original tutorial window, the text will
highlight/unhighlight as you drag the mouse. No other controls, menus, other
Rev window or other Rev palettes will respond.

Rev 1.1.1X, OSX 10.2.1.



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 28 00:43:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct 28 00:43:01 2002
Subject: Mouse lock
In-Reply-To: <B9E1F700.55D0%bfr@nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <20021028063732.95298.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Bruce Robertson <bfr at nwlink.com> wrote:
> I purchased Revolution at MacWorld SF 2001 last
> January. I am finally trying
> to go through the tutorial.
> 
> However, the tutorial says you can use the option
> key to copy text from the
> tutorial window. This does not work.
> 
> Once you have depressed the option key, Revolution
> never thinks you have let
> it go. The application locks up completely, and the
> only thing that happens
> is that if you hover over the original tutorial
> window, the text will
> highlight/unhighlight as you drag the mouse. No
> other controls, menus, other
> Rev window or other Rev palettes will respond.
> 
> Rev 1.1.1X, OSX 10.2.1.
> 

Hi Bruce,

Rev 1.1.1 is known to have a few issues with the
Appearance Manager that shipped with MacOS X 10.2
Jaguar. Have you tried changing the 'Look and feel' to
'MacOS Emulated' in the menu 'View' ?

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 28 00:59:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct 28 00:59:01 2002
Subject: _Revolution_2.0_to_ship_in_November
In-Reply-To: <H4NKO0$2086D32D17C7BECEC75B8B32849A64A6@libero.it>
Message-ID: <20021028065337.1043.qmail@web11905.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Piero,

As someone who is often asked that question himself
about his company's products:
I'd rather wait a week or two instead of having to
install version 2.0.1 a few days after, and all the
frustrations associated with that.

With so many new features, not to mention the changes
under the hood, everything has to be tested and
re-tested, and then checked all over again.
Like any alpha-version, it had its quirks but I'm sure
these will be cleared up by the beta, and then there's
a whole group of pro-users to tickle every toe.

In short, I prefer version 2.0 arrives Novermber 30,
instead of version 2.0.1 -- but that's just my
opinion.

Jan Schenkel.

"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish
at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

--- "menno at libero.it" <menno at libero.it> wrote:
> NOVEMBER WHEN?
> GIVE US AT LEAST THE WEEK IN WHICH REV 2.0 WILL BE
> AVAILABLE...
> 
> Piero Menno
> 
> 
> > PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT: REVOLUTION 2.0 TO SHIP IN
> NOVEMBER
> > Latest release with groundbreaking new features is
> in testing.
> >

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


From info at multicopy.org  Mon Oct 28 03:14:02 2002
From: info at multicopy.org (MultiCopy Rotterdam-Zuid)
Date: Mon Oct 28 03:14:02 2002
Subject: 60 hours divided by 60 is 2 minutes?
Message-ID: <B9DEF915.165E%info@multicopy.org>

Hi all,

I have a 5MB file with about 550000 lines that need to be processed by a
script. A simple script that deletes a line if the previous line has the
same contents. That takes more than 60 hours to complete. So I thought I
divide the file into smaller files of about one 60th of the total number of
lines. But instead of the expected hour of processing time, it took 2
minutes for each file to complete.

I understand processes are faster with less data in memory, but I never
would have thought the difference would be this big.

Any thoughts on how this is possible and what we can learn from it when
making programs?

Terry



From menno at tiscalinet.it  Mon Oct 28 03:14:32 2002
From: menno at tiscalinet.it (Piero Menno')
Date: Mon Oct 28 03:14:32 2002
Subject: Revolution 2.0 to ship in November
In-Reply-To:  <8F38A22EC36A0948B854417D7EC91E0308F243@iu-mssg-mbx01.exchange.iu.edu>
References:  <8F38A22EC36A0948B854417D7EC91E0308F243@iu-mssg-mbx01.exchange.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <a05111b01b9e0585c9d68@[62.11.43.199]>

NOVEMBER WHEN?
GIVE US AT LEAST THE WEEK IN WHICH REV 2.0 WILL BE AVAILABLE...

>
>
>
>>  PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT: REVOLUTION 2.0 TO SHIP IN NOVEMBER
>>  Latest release with groundbreaking new features is in testing.
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct 28 03:37:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Oct 28 03:37:01 2002
Subject: Revolution 2.0 to ship in November
In-Reply-To: <a05111b01b9e0585c9d68@[62.11.43.199]>
Message-ID: <B9E243F3.1EEDF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Piero Menno' wrote:

> 
> NOVEMBER WHEN?
> GIVE US AT LEAST THE WEEK IN WHICH REV 2.0 WILL BE AVAILABLE...

You haven't shipped much software, have you?  :)

I would count on the 30th, and then you'll be pleasantly surprised if it's
earlier.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Mon Oct 28 03:44:01 2002
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Mon Oct 28 03:44:01 2002
Subject: 60 hours divided by 60 is 2 minutes?
In-Reply-To: <B9DEF915.165E%info@multicopy.org>
Message-ID: <0A59DCF6-EA59-11D6-BFDF-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>

On Friday, Oct 25, 2002, at 21:35 Australia/Sydney, MultiCopy 
Rotterdam-Zuid wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a 5MB file with about 550000 lines that need to be processed by 
> a
> script. A simple script that deletes a line if the previous line has 
> the
> same contents. That takes more than 60 hours to complete. So I thought 
> I
> divide the file into smaller files of about one 60th of the total 
> number of
> lines. But instead of the expected hour of processing time, it took 2
> minutes for each file to complete.

Terry

I am a bit puzzled by your result in the first place. I generated 
550000 lines with random data which had some chance of duplication in 
the next line. I then processed it to remove duplicates. The latter 
task took a whole four seconds. Not two minutes and not 60 hours; for 
the whole file, not for one sixtieth. Were you using "repeat for each"?

regards
David
>
> I understand processes are faster with less data in memory, but I never
> would have thought the difference would be this big.
>
> Any thoughts on how this is possible and what we can learn from it when
> making programs?
>
> Terry
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 28 03:59:01 2002
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon Oct 28 03:59:01 2002
Subject: 60 hours divided by 60 is 2 minutes?
In-Reply-To: <B9DEF915.165E%info@multicopy.org>
Message-ID: <20021028095314.75588.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com>

--- MultiCopy Rotterdam-Zuid <info at multicopy.org>
wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a 5MB file with about 550000 lines that need
> to be processed by a
> script. A simple script that deletes a line if the
> previous line has the
> same contents. That takes more than 60 hours to
> complete. So I thought I
> divide the file into smaller files of about one 60th
> of the total number of
> lines. But instead of the expected hour of
> processing time, it took 2
> minutes for each file to complete.
> 
> I understand processes are faster with less data in
> memory, but I never
> would have thought the difference would be this big.
> 
> Any thoughts on how this is possible and what we can
> learn from it when
> making programs?
> 
> Terry
> 

Hi Terry,

Though in extreme cases it might have to do with the
OS swapping the memory to disk at an incredible rate,
I'm more inclined to believe that it might have
something to do with the algorithm.
Off the top of my head, I'd process it with:

function ReadUniqueLinesFromFile pFile
  put URL pFile into tInput
  put empty into tPrevLine
  repeat for each line tLine of tInput
    if tLine <> tPrevLine then
      put tLine & return after tOutput
      put tLine into tPrevLine
    end if
  end repeat
  delete char -1 of tOutput
  return tOutput
end ReadUniqueLinesFromFile

And that should work pretty quickly.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct 28 04:11:01 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon Oct 28 04:11:01 2002
Subject: 60 hours divided by 60 is 2 minutes?
In-Reply-To: <0A59DCF6-EA59-11D6-BFDF-000393598038@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <B9E24BF1.1EEE5%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

David Vaughan wrote:

>> I have a 5MB file with about 550000 lines that need to be processed by
>> a
>> script. A simple script that deletes a line if the previous line has
>> the
>> same contents. That takes more than 60 hours to complete. So I thought
>> I
>> divide the file into smaller files of about one 60th of the total
>> number of
>> lines. But instead of the expected hour of processing time, it took 2
>> minutes for each file to complete.
> 
> Terry
> 
> I am a bit puzzled by your result in the first place. I generated
> 550000 lines with random data which had some chance of duplication in
> the next line. I then processed it to remove duplicates. The latter
> task took a whole four seconds. Not two minutes and not 60 hours; for
> the whole file, not for one sixtieth. Were you using "repeat for each"?

Also, when it comes to adding or deleting, working with arrays is much
faster than with large chunks.  Remember that you can use arays and chunks
interhangeably with the split and combine commands.
 
-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From bvg at mac.com  Mon Oct 28 04:29:01 2002
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Mon Oct 28 04:29:01 2002
Subject: question about sockets
In-Reply-To: <B9A771EC.3476%jameslewes@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <0EED461F-EA5F-11D6-8F06-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

sorry for my triple post earlier this day, I got some connection 
probs...

I am trying to do some connection stuff using the open socket, write to 
socket, and accept socket in their datagram form.
I run a by connecting to my own Jaguar mac, but I only can get one 
message through and I really don't know what's wrong...

first I open the outgoing socket:
   open datagram socket to "127.0.0.1:4038|local"

then I start with listening, the message just writes the socket and the 
datagram into a field:
   accept datagram connections on port 4038 with message "contact"

first output comes from the "accept" command, as it sends the name and 
identifier of the socket:
191.255.242.136|99184744

finally I send a message:
   write field "text" to socket "127.0.0.1:4038|local"


second output is the name of the socket and my message:
127.0.0.1|99184744 this text is written in field "text"

I know have two open sockets, one from the accept and one from the open 
port:
4038
127.0.0.1:4038|local

but I cannot send a second message, as just nothing happens if I try to 
do so :(
Does it somehow shut close? Is it a bug? Probably just me not getting 
how things are supposed to work...

so could someone enlighten me? Il appreciate it, promised...



From bvg at mac.com  Mon Oct 28 04:30:49 2002
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Mon Oct 28 04:30:49 2002
Subject: question about sockets
In-Reply-To: <B9A771EC.3476%jameslewes@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <0EED461F-EA5F-11D6-8F06-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

sorry for my triple post earlier this day, I got some connection 
probs...

I am trying to do some connection stuff using the open socket, write to 
socket, and accept socket in their datagram form.
I run a by connecting to my own Jaguar mac, but I only can get one 
message through and I really don't know what's wrong...

first I open the outgoing socket:
   open datagram socket to "127.0.0.1:4038|local"

then I start with listening, the message just writes the socket and the 
datagram into a field:
   accept datagram connections on port 4038 with message "contact"

first output comes from the "accept" command, as it sends the name and 
identifier of the socket:
191.255.242.136|99184744

finally I send a message:
   write field "text" to socket "127.0.0.1:4038|local"


second output is the name of the socket and my message:
127.0.0.1|99184744 this text is written in field "text"

I know have two open sockets, one from the accept and one from the open 
port:
4038
127.0.0.1:4038|local

but I cannot send a second message, as just nothing happens if I try to 
do so :(
Does it somehow shut close? Is it a bug? Probably just me not getting 
how things are supposed to work...

so could someone enlighten me? Il appreciate it, promised...



From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Mon Oct 28 04:33:02 2002
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon Oct 28 04:33:02 2002
Subject: 60 hours divided by 60 is 2 minutes?
In-Reply-To: <B9DEF915.165E%info@multicopy.org>
References: <B9DEF915.165E%info@multicopy.org>
Message-ID: <a05111b03b9e2bc4882dc@[141.89.100.235]>

>Hi all,
>
>I have a 5MB file with about 550000 lines that need to be processed by a
>script. A simple script that deletes a line if the previous line has the
>same contents. That takes more than 60 hours to complete. So I thought I
>divide the file into smaller files of about one 60th of the total number of
>lines. But instead of the expected hour of processing time, it took 2
>minutes for each file to complete.
>
>I understand processes are faster with less data in memory, but I never
>would have thought the difference would be this big.
>
>Any thoughts on how this is possible and what we can learn from it when
>making programs?
>
>Terry
>

My first guess would be that with full file he get into memory 
swapping which is a speed killer. Rev loads all you stack data in 
memory after all. You can test this by setting your virtual memory to 
be just 1 mb over the physical RAM.

Robert


From iansummerfield at onetel.net.uk  Mon Oct 28 05:31:01 2002
From: iansummerfield at onetel.net.uk (Ian Summerfield)
Date: Mon Oct 28 05:31:01 2002
Subject: question about sockets
In-Reply-To: <0EED461F-EA5F-11D6-8F06-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B9E2CF1F.8A39%iansummerfield@onetel.net.uk>

On 28/10/02 10:21 am, "Bj?rnke von Gierke" <bvg at mac.com> scribed:


> I am trying to do some connection stuff using the open socket, write to
> socket, and accept socket in their datagram form.
> I run a by connecting to my own Jaguar mac, but I only can get one
> message through and I really don't know what's wrong...

> 
> first I open the outgoing socket:
>  open datagram socket to "127.0.0.1:4038|local"

You don't need to open the socket,  just use accept datagram alone.

You need to do something strange,  don't ask me why but I know it works.  In
your "contact" handler do the following:

 on contact fromWho, what
   -- do all your data stuff stuff here

   -- OS X fix
    if the platform && the systemversion contains "MacOS 10" then
      close socket 4038
      accept datagram connections on port 4038 with message "contact"
    end if
 end contact




From malte.brill at t-online.de  Mon Oct 28 06:44:01 2002
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (malte brill)
Date: Mon Oct 28 06:44:01 2002
Subject: Playing with the imageSource
In-Reply-To: <200210280934.EAA10962@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9E2EE68.7A9%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi List,
I created a little stack.
You might type a text in a field and this Text will create a "scroll line"
like in the old 16Bit (atari) Demos. If you are interested to take a glimpse
on it, you might download it at www.derbrill.de/revstack/newfont.rev.bin .
Any comments on optimizing the code would be nice.

(by the way... Has anyone done some approches on fractals and/or simple 3d
graphics in Rev, or can point me to some good tutorials?)

Have a nice day!
Malte



From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Oct 28 10:15:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Oct 28 10:15:01 2002
Subject: question about sockets
In-Reply-To: <0EED461F-EA5F-11D6-8F06-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8477DDC3-EA8F-11D6-832E-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Monday, October 28, 2002, at 03:21 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:
>
> I am trying to do some connection stuff using the open socket, write to 
> socket, and accept socket in their datagram form.
> I run a by connecting to my own Jaguar mac, but I only can get one message 
> through and I really don't know what's wrong...

There is a bug in Revolution 1.1.1 concerning datagrams.  Also there are 
features in Revolution 2.0 that will require more work.

This is based on 10.1.x and I assume it will work the same on Jaguar.

In OS X for Revolution 1.1.1 you get a false message when you do the accept 
and you get only one more.

The workaround is two parts:  You need to throw away the false message and 
reopen the accept.  The false message is always empty, so if yours is never 
empty, you can test on that in deciding to throw away a datagram.  After 
you get the real message you need to close the accept and open it again.

To be ready for Revolution 2.0, you should also "close socket" the 
connectionID you get with the callback and ignore the error.  (Or test on 
version.  Or make a note to yourself.)

On Revolution 2.0 you will be able to send datagrams back and receive 
datagrams sent back on that same "connection" identified by the 
connectionID in the callback.  To support this a "connection" is opened for 
you just before the callback.

I have heard a rumor of another potential problem that might show up in 2.
0.  A Revolutionary made several standalones using the new engine and ran 
them on the same computer.  One sent datagrams to the others.  Sometimes 
one of the others would not receive the datagram until its window was 
clicked.  (I may have added my own confusion to this rumor.)  There have 
been lots of engine changes recently, so this may have been taken care of.

Other than these OS X problems which will go away soon, the use of 
datagrams looks very good on Revolution.

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Oct 28 10:39:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Oct 28 10:39:01 2002
Subject: question about sockets
In-Reply-To: <B9E2CF1F.8A39%iansummerfield@onetel.net.uk>
Message-ID: <D8F900AE-EA92-11D6-832E-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Monday, October 28, 2002, at 04:25 AM, Ian Summerfield wrote:

>> first I open the outgoing socket:
>>  open datagram socket to "127.0.0.1:4038|local"
>
> You don't need to open the socket,  just use accept datagram alone.

I assumed he meant for the sending part of the set up, perhaps in another 
stack for testing (but maybe on the same card for experimenting).  If that 
is the case, he would need to open the socket.

The sender open and the accept open can occur in any order.  The accept has 
to occur before the sender write, of course.

A simplification for experimenting:  If performance is not an issue and 
datagrams are not sent that often, the sending handler can simply 
open-write-close every time, simplifying the first pass of design.

Another thing I didn't mention before:  I think watching the openSockets() 
while trying this as Bjornke seems to be doing is a very good idea.

Dar Scott



From bfr at nwlink.com  Mon Oct 28 10:44:01 2002
From: bfr at nwlink.com (Bruce Robertson)
Date: Mon Oct 28 10:44:01 2002
Subject: Mouse lock
In-Reply-To: <20021028063732.95298.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B9E2A7F1.563A%bfr@nwlink.com>

> Hi Bruce,
> 
> Rev 1.1.1 is known to have a few issues with the
> Appearance Manager that shipped with MacOS X 10.2
> Jaguar. Have you tried changing the 'Look and feel' to
> 'MacOS Emulated' in the menu 'View' ?
> 
> Hope this helped,

OK, that sorta fixes the problem. But the text selection is kind of wonky.

Now I have to figure out how to use applescript "tell" statements....



From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Oct 28 11:39:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon Oct 28 11:39:01 2002
Subject: 60 hours divided by 60 is 2 minutes?
In-Reply-To: <B9DEF915.165E%info@multicopy.org>
References: <B9DEF915.165E%info@multicopy.org>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9e308b73198@[216.229.107.189]>

>Any thoughts on how this is possible and what we can learn from it when
>making programs?

Hi Terry,

Before dealing specifically with 1 @ 60 hours vs 60 @ 2 minutes, I 
need to know if you are actually deleting each duplicate line on the 
fly?  Have you tried building a new list instead:

functon purgeDuplicates @textData
    put empty into newData
    put numToChar(30) into lastLine -- any char not in the first line 
of textData
    repeat for each line thisLine in textData
       if thisLine = lastLine then next repeat
       put thisLine&return after newData
       put thisLine into lastLine
    end repeat
    return newData -- or write as a command and "put newData into textData"
end purgeDuplicates

I'd be curious to know what algorithm you used and what times the 
above handler produces.

Other things to look at:

1.  Is it possible you are maxed out in actual RAM and spending a lot 
of time reading from/writing to virtual memory?

2.  Are you passing the 55K lines of text by value or reference?

3.  Have you tried writing your handler inline with the handler that 
reads in the data so it needn't be passed at all?

Eg:
     put get URL (whatever) into textData
     put empty into newData
     put numToChar(30) into lastLine -- any char not in the first line
     repeat for each line thisLine in textData
       if thisLine = lastLine then next repeat
       put thisLine&return after newData
       put thisLine into lastLine
    end repeat
    put newData into textData

instead of

     put get URL (whatever) into textData
     put purgeDuplicates(textData) into textData

(although if textData is passed by reference, the impact of item 
three is negligible).
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Oct 28 11:39:42 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon Oct 28 11:39:42 2002
Subject: Converting dates to Padded SQL format
In-Reply-To: <DD46762E-E9DC-11D6-988C-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
References: <DD46762E-E9DC-11D6-988C-003065FB9830@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <a05100301b9e311af4d24@[216.229.107.189]>

>We want  to convert
>
>April 15, 1998
>
>into
>
>04/15/1998

Aloha Sannyasin,

This works for me on Mac OS9 (after setting the system control panel 
short date format to include century):

on mouseup
   get "April 15, 1998"
   convert it to short system date
   answer it
end mouseup
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From bvg at mac.com  Mon Oct 28 16:28:01 2002
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Mon Oct 28 16:28:01 2002
Subject: question about sockets
In-Reply-To: <8477DDC3-EA8F-11D6-832E-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BD809454-EAC3-11D6-84C6-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

On Montag, Okt 28, 2002, at 17:08 Europe/Zurich, Dar Scott wrote:

> There is a bug in Revolution 1.1.1 concerning datagrams.  Also there 
> are features in Revolution 2.0 that will require more work.
>
> ...
> To be ready for Revolution 2.0, you should also "close socket" the 
> connectionID you get with the callback and ignore the error.  (Or test 
> on version.  Or make a note to yourself.)
>
> On Revolution 2.0 you will be able to send datagrams back and receive 
> datagrams sent back on that same "connection" identified by the 
> connectionID in the callback.  To support this a "connection" is 
> opened for you just before the callback.
>

well It seems that my testing will have to wait until after November or 
whenever 2.0 ships...
Its exactly one of those situations where you cannot use an old version 
of a program without taking a huge step when the next version ships... 
If only software where always flawless from the beginning :(



From bvg at mac.com  Mon Oct 28 16:47:01 2002
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Mon Oct 28 16:47:01 2002
Subject: question about sockets
In-Reply-To: <8477DDC3-EA8F-11D6-832E-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <B5014CC2-EAC5-11D6-812F-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

On Montag, Okt 28, 2002, at 17:08 Europe/Zurich, Dar Scott wrote:

> There is a bug in Revolution 1.1.1 concerning datagrams.  Also there 
> are features in Revolution 2.0 that will require more work.
>
> ...
> To be ready for Revolution 2.0, you should also "close socket" the 
> connectionID you get with the callback and ignore the error.  (Or test 
> on version.  Or make a note to yourself.)
>
> On Revolution 2.0 you will be able to send datagrams back and receive 
> datagrams sent back on that same "connection" identified by the 
> connectionID in the callback.  To support this a "connection" is 
> opened for you just before the callback.
>

well It seems that my testing will have to wait until after November or 
whenever 2.0 ships...
Its exactly one of those situations where you cannot use an old version 
of a program without taking a huge step when the next version ships... 
If only software where always flawless from the beginning :(



From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Oct 28 16:52:00 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon Oct 28 16:52:00 2002
Subject: question about sockets
In-Reply-To: <BD809454-EAC3-11D6-84C6-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <FCD6234A-EAC6-11D6-82F0-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

On Monday, October 28, 2002, at 03:22 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

> well It seems that my testing will have to wait until after November or 
> whenever 2.0 ships...
> Its exactly one of those situations where you cannot use an old version of 
> a program without taking a huge step when the next version ships... If 
> only software where always flawless from the beginning :(

The 1.1.1 version works OK on other platforms, so unless you are waiting 
for the client-server capability in UDP, that is, the ability to send a 
reply directly back to whomever sent the first datagram, then you can do 
some testing now.

Also, if your messages going back are independent and you know the computer 
and port beforehand, you are still OK in 1.1.1, just set it up the same as 
you would the other direction.

Dar Scott



From rpresender at earthlink.net  Mon Oct 28 22:35:01 2002
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:35:01 2002
Subject: Ask/Answer Problem
Message-ID: <025A181C-EAF7-11D6-81A9-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

Hi,
using OS 10.2.1, Rev 1.1.1r2 / 1.5A7r1

Have a test stack with 1 fld and 1 btn.
Btn Script:
on mouseUp
   answer "Please enter a name " with "OK" or "Yes" or "Cancel"
   put it into fld 1
end mouseUp

on mouseUp
   ask "Please enter a name"
   put it into fld 1
end mouseUp

Both of the above scripts work OK in  development (Application 
Overview).
A dialog  appears, appropriate data entered and the results are put 
into the field.

When the the proj is doubled clicked (Rev not opened), no dialog 
appears but the
result in the field are for each case:
1. answer plain Please enter a name
2. ask plain Please enter a name

Will appreciate any help. I'm stuck!

Regards ... Bob



From terry at discovery.nl  Tue Oct 29 00:30:00 2002
From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Tue Oct 29 00:30:00 2002
Subject: 60 hours divided by 60 is 2 minutes?
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b9e308b73198@[216.229.107.189]>
Message-ID: <82D5CFBC-EAFA-11D6-A1C8-0030656FD666@discovery.nl>

What Rob Cozens, David Vaughan and Jan Schenkel wrote was of course 
much better than what I wrote in my script. I thought I needed to use 
"repeat with i = 2 to the number of lines..." instead of "repeat for 
each", because in a repeat for each loop you cannot see the previous 
line. But of course you can in the previous loop! I didn't think about 
that. Thanks.




From terry at discovery.nl  Tue Oct 29 01:44:01 2002
From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Tue Oct 29 01:44:01 2002
Subject: Ask/Answer Problem
In-Reply-To: <025A181C-EAF7-11D6-81A9-000393A19046@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F2F61A26-EB03-11D6-A1C8-0030656FD666@discovery.nl>

Robert Presender heeft op dinsdag, 29 okt 2002 om 05:29 het volgende 
geschreven:

> Have a test stack with 1 fld and 1 btn.
> Btn Script:
> on mouseUp
>   answer "Please enter a name " with "OK" or "Yes" or "Cancel"
>   put it into fld 1
> end mouseUp
>
> on mouseUp
>   ask "Please enter a name"
>   put it into fld 1
> end mouseUp
>
> Both of the above scripts work OK in  development (Application 
> Overview).
> A dialog  appears, appropriate data entered and the results are put 
> into the field.
>
> When the the proj is doubled clicked (Rev not opened), no dialog 
> appears but the
> result in the field are for each case:
> 1. answer plain Please enter a name
> 2. ask plain Please enter a name

Hello Robert,

Both the answer and ask dialog are part of the Revolution UI, which is 
not started up when you doubleclick a project with rev not open. So the 
dialogs don't appear and the contents of 'it' are not filled in by the 
dialog. I am puzzled why you get the result you get instead of 
literally "it".

Solution: start Rev first or make a standalone. I don't think there is 
an other solution.

Terry




From Doug_Ivers at lord.com  Tue Oct 29 08:04:01 2002
From: Doug_Ivers at lord.com (Ivers, Doug E)
Date: Tue Oct 29 08:04:01 2002
Subject: suspend but no resume?
Message-ID: <E08533A454364A4C8B395EA007D1F42309D78D@ntsrvcrd04.main.lord.com>

It seems that calling the answer dialog generates a suspendStack, but no resumeStack is sent when the dialog is closed.  Doesn't seem right...

I'm running Rev1.1.1 on Mac os 10.1.5.


-- D



From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Oct 29 09:51:01 2002
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue Oct 29 09:51:01 2002
Subject: suspend but no resume?
In-Reply-To:  <E08533A454364A4C8B395EA007D1F42309D78D@ntsrvcrd04.main.lord.com>
References:  <E08533A454364A4C8B395EA007D1F42309D78D@ntsrvcrd04.main.lord.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300b9e45ccc2e7e@[216.229.107.30]>

>It seems that calling the answer dialog generates a suspendStack, 
>but no resumeStack is sent when the dialog is closed.  Doesn't seem 
>right...

Hi Doug,

I reported this to the Improve Rev List last August:

>I've done more testing with a simple stack with one field named
>"Status" and one button.  The stack script contains:
>
>on suspendStack
>    put "I'm suspended" into field "Status"
>end suspendStack
>
>on resumeStack
>    put "I'm resumed" into field "Status"
>end resumeStack
>
>on preopenStack
>    put empty into field "Status"
>end preopenStack
>
>The button script contains:
>
>on mouseUp
>    put empty into field "Status"
>    ask "Got something for me?"
>    wait 3 seconds
>    put empty into field "Status"
>    ask file "Got a file?"
>    wait 3 seconds
>    put empty into field "Status"
>    answer "What's the question?"
>    wait 3 seconds
>    put empty into field "Status"
>    answer file "What's the file?"
>    wait 3 seconds
>    put empty into field "Status"
>    ask password "What's the word?"
>    wait 3 seconds
>    put empty into field "Status"
>end mouseUp
>
>Using this test I am finding that ask, answer, & ask password dialogs
>suspend the stack but fail to send resumeStack when closing.  Neither
>the ask file nor the answer file dialogs suspends nor resumes the
>main stack.


-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From rpresender at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 29 13:47:00 2002
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Tue Oct 29 13:47:00 2002
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #806 - 8 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200210291703.MAA04186@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4BB5BB5A-EB76-11D6-AEEC-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 09:03  AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:

> Robert Presender heeft op dinsdag, 29 okt 2002 om 05:29 het volgende
> geschreven:
>
>> Have a test stack with 1 fld and 1 btn.
>> Btn Script:
>> on mouseUp
>>   answer "Please enter a name " with "OK" or "Yes" or "Cancel"
>>   put it into fld 1
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>   ask "Please enter a name"
>>   put it into fld 1
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> Both of the above scripts work OK in  development (Application
>> Overview).
>> A dialog  appears, appropriate data entered and the results are put
>> into the field.
>>
>> When the the proj is doubled clicked (Rev not opened), no dialog
>> appears but the
>> result in the field are for each case:
>> 1. answer plain Please enter a name
>> 2. ask plain Please enter a name
>
> Hello Robert,
>
> Both the answer and ask dialog are part of the Revolution UI, which is
> not started up when you doubleclick a project with rev not open. So the
> dialogs don't appear and the contents of 'it' are not filled in by the
> dialog. I am puzzled why you get the result you get instead of
> literally "it".
>
> Solution: start Rev first or make a standalone. I don't think there is
> an other solution.

Hi Terry,
Thank you for the info. It appears that one would have to assume that,  
if ask/answer is used,
if it works in development it should work elsewhere.  I am aware that 
in build  ask/answer
has to be selected in resources.  Wonder why it is not available if one 
wants to check his work in a "project" situation rather than having to 
build a standalone  each time ask/answer is used.
  Again, thanks.

Regards ... Bob



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Tue Oct 29 14:40:02 2002
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Tue Oct 29 14:40:02 2002
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #806 - 8 msgs
Message-ID: <OF04169E80.51F1B515-ON85256C61.006FBB9C@sealedair.com>

>> Solution: start Rev first or make a standalone. I don't think there is
>> an other solution.
>
> Hi Terry,
> Thank you for the info. It appears that one would have to assume that,
> if ask/answer is used,
> if it works in development it should work elsewhere.  I am aware that
> in build  ask/answer
> has to be selected in resources.  Wonder why it is not available if
> one wants to check his work in a "project" situation rather than having
> to build a standalone  each time ask/answer is used.
  > Again, thanks.
  >
> Regards ... Bob

To test your project WITH all of the resources available such as ask/answer
dialogs, you only have to select
"Suspend Revolution UI" from the development menu. Then your project is
running with everything it would normally have as a standalone, but the
development environment is hidden.

I agree that testing would be more developer-friendly if one could just
double-click a rev file from the desktop. This was discussed several months
ago on the list. I wonder if RunRev listened to their userbase on that
issue as they were designing v1.5 (now v2.0). I believe there was a
majority consensus that the the double-click method was more desirable than
suspending the UI from a menu. It just seems more intuitive to simply
double-click the file to me.

Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com




From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Oct 29 20:32:01 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Oct 29 20:32:01 2002
Subject: formatForPrinting problems
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHMENFCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Hi All

Has anyone ever had the problem where formatForPrinting with the
fixedLineHeight set to false makes the line height go huge. Making prinouts
that are meant to be on only one page print over several. I know the usual
(get new drivers) story but I'm wondering about other workarounds. For
example it prints perfetly if you don't set the formatForPrinting to true.
It also doesn't space out if the fixedLineHeight is set to true.

Monte Goulding
B.App.Sc. (Hons.)

Executive Director
Sweat Technologies

email: monte at sweattechnologies.com
website: www.sweattechnologies.com
mobile (International): +61 421 138 274
       (Australia): 0421 138 274



From alanira9 at mac.com  Tue Oct 29 21:24:01 2002
From: alanira9 at mac.com (Alan Gayne)
Date: Tue Oct 29 21:24:01 2002
Subject: Roving Popup Menus
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHMENFCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <412E6F45-EBB6-11D6-9DC1-000393BB44C6@mac.com>

Hey gang!

Just a brief note to say that I have been advised by RunRev that my 
Roving Popup Menus stack is now available for downloading on the User 
Contributions page.

I hope some of you find it useful.

Alan



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Oct 29 22:40:01 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Oct 29 22:40:01 2002
Subject: iCalendar/vCalendar
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAENHCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Hi

Has anyone implemented the iCalendar or vCalendar standard yet? If not is
anyone interested in working on it with me? It would be nice to be able to
crete .ics files for iCal and Outlook. Anyone interested?

Cheers

Monte Goulding
B.App.Sc. (Hons.)

Executive Director
Sweat Technologies

email: monte at sweattechnologies.com
website: www.sweattechnologies.com
mobile (International): +61 421 138 274
       (Australia): 0421 138 274



From themacguy at macosx.com  Tue Oct 29 22:49:01 2002
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Tue Oct 29 22:49:01 2002
Subject: hdiutil or Disk Copy or what?
Message-ID: <2B6AFF70-EBC2-11D6-A5C4-000393AAEF66@macosx.com>

Greetings, Listas!

I posted a similar question about this topic earlier but haven't found 
an answer yet.
 From within my app I need to be able to burn a CD with data my app 
generates. I will always know the exact path to the data. I have been 
given a few links to some AppleScripts but none of them seem to work 
(OSX 10.2.1). My app will be OSX only.

I have seen a reference to using "hdiutil" and have found the "man 
page" related to it. I will study it but, if anyone has successfully 
done anything in this regard, I'd appreciate any tips or hints...or 
even a small script that will cause my Mac to burn a CD (*grin*).

Thanks in advance,
Barry



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Oct 29 23:42:01 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue Oct 29 23:42:01 2002
Subject: iCalendar/vCalendar
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAENHCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEENICKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

Actually after looking at the spec I'll probably just implement only the
fraction that I need to do what I want to do. It's actually reasonably easy
and will add a great new feature to one of my apps. I'll post a library to
my site when I've done what I need done.

For anyone that's interested all I'm going to implement is the VEVENT object
and the SUMMARY, DESCRIPTION, DTEND and DTSTART properties. A file with only
these properties works great with iCal and Outlook.

Cheers

Monte
>
> Hi
>
> Has anyone implemented the iCalendar or vCalendar standard yet? If not is
> anyone interested in working on it with me? It would be nice to be able to
> crete .ics files for iCal and Outlook. Anyone interested?
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte Goulding
> B.App.Sc. (Hons.)
>
> Executive Director
> Sweat Technologies
>
> email: monte at sweattechnologies.com
> website: www.sweattechnologies.com
> mobile (International): +61 421 138 274
>        (Australia): 0421 138 274
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 29 23:48:00 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue Oct 29 23:48:00 2002
Subject: iCalendar/vCalendar
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAENHCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <B9E4B155.1F065%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Monte Goulding wrote:

> Has anyone implemented the iCalendar or vCalendar standard yet? If not is
> anyone interested in working on it with me? It would be nice to be able to
> crete .ics files for iCal and Outlook. Anyone interested?

Where is it defined?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Oct 30 00:55:01 2002
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed Oct 30 00:55:01 2002
Subject: iCalendar/vCalendar
In-Reply-To: <B9E4B155.1F065%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAENJCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> > Has anyone implemented the iCalendar or vCalendar standard yet?
> If not is
> > anyone interested in working on it with me? It would be nice to
> be able to
> > crete .ics files for iCal and Outlook. Anyone interested?
>
> Where is it defined?
>
http://www.imc.org/pdi/vcal-10.doc

There is also a newer iCalendar standard that I haven't looked into,
however, I think Outlook only supports vCalander.

It's actually really easy to implement export at a basic level. I'm not
interested in import because all I want to do is save a *.ics file or use
drag and drop to open it in iCal or Outlook.

Cheers

Monte



From smilingeyes at mac.com  Wed Oct 30 09:00:01 2002
From: smilingeyes at mac.com (Ray Bennett)
Date: Wed Oct 30 09:00:01 2002
Subject: hidden field selection - akin to HyperCard cmd-option selection?
Message-ID: <3DBFF298.80604@mac.com>

Dear List - if this is answered in the archives, please forgive me.

In HyperCard, when you selected the field or button tool and then held 
down the "command (apple)" and "option" keys, the outline of any hidden 
fields or buttons would also be displayed.  Is there an equivalent 
ability in the Rev environment?

Thanks.
Ray



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Oct 30 09:28:01 2002
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed Oct 30 09:28:01 2002
Subject: iCalendar/vCalendar (OT: joke)
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAENHCKAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <2C0B73E7-EC1B-11D6-A07D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>

I don't know what iCalendar/vCalendar is, but I think it will have units 
of conductance, the inverse of resistance (ohms).

(electronics joke)

Dar Scott



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 30 09:37:01 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed Oct 30 09:37:01 2002
Subject: iCalendar/vCalendar (OT: joke)
In-Reply-To: <2C0B73E7-EC1B-11D6-A07D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <B9E5656C.15E25%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/30/02 10:20 AM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> I don't know what iCalendar/vCalendar is, but I think it will have units
> of conductance, the inverse of resistance (ohms).
> 
> (electronics joke)

;-)

Probably chuckled yourself silly over that one, huh Dar?

::Dar: -> Oh my gosh... I can barely type... la-la-laughing too hard::

;-)

-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Wed Oct 30 11:33:00 2002
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed Oct 30 11:33:00 2002
Subject: iCalendar/vCalendar (OT: joke)
Message-ID: <p05100303b9e5c6eda68b@[192.168.1.102]>

Hi Guys,

I've recently resubbed to this list after a long absence. I noticed 
that there was a mention that at the RunRev site about the 2.0 beta 
-- 'pro users have already been using it'   --

I have a Pro license but did not get notification about where to get 
this version and I'd like to try it. Perhaps the notification got 
filtered as spam (I am still messing with my filters, etc.

Could some kind person respond with the link for the download?

thanks

stephen barncard

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
                      Stephen Barncard
             Email: mailto:stephen at barncard.com
                WEB http://www.barncard.com/
                Record Producer / Web Design
-----------------------------------------------------------


From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 30 12:05:00 2002
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed Oct 30 12:05:00 2002
Subject: 2.0 alpha
In-Reply-To: <p05100303b9e5c6eda68b@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <B9E58821.15E44%troy@rpsystems.net>

On 10/30/02 12:27 PM, "Stephen Barncard" <stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com>
wrote:

> I have a Pro license but did not get notification about where to get
> this version and I'd like to try it. Perhaps the notification got
> filtered as spam (I am still messing with my filters, etc.
> 
> Could some kind person respond with the link for the download?

Join up on the "improve" list - also known as the "pro" list. That's where
such notifications are made.

Cheers.
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net



From giulio at cantoberon.it  Wed Oct 30 12:16:00 2002
From: giulio at cantoberon.it (giulio mastrosanti)
Date: Wed Oct 30 12:16:00 2002
Subject: 2 questions: centering and relative paths
In-Reply-To: <200210291706.MAA04242@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C891D2CA-EC32-11D6-BB46-000393A949D8@cantoberon.it>

Hi all
I've already used Revolution for some little applications, but this if 
my first time using it as a multimedia authoring tool
( No intention to upgade my Director licenses anymore...  :)
I played a little with all the  stuff I will need  and quite satisfyed.
  Well, missing a little the Director timeline fot this kind of job, but 
just a little.

Now I have two problems:

1) Can't find a way to imitate the Director "Full screen" option.
I tryed this way:

on preopenstack
    set the rect of this stack to the screenrect
end preopenstack

using the geometry  manager i have set all the objects on the form with 
a location relative to the image i use as background

using the geometry  manager i have set the image i use as background 
with a location relative to the card, exactly 0 pixel from the center 
of the card, both horizontal and vertical.

Nothing to do: the backgroud and all the controls stay always on the 
topleft corner of the screen.



2) I would like to keep all the images I use(Backgrounds, photos, etc.) 
  on an external folder, let's say "media", on the same level of the 
application.
I can't find a way to set the filename on the properties of an Image as 
a relative path (i mean on the IDE, not from transcript), using the 
browse button i have always an absolute path that is mantaind on the 
compiled app, so moving the app with its folder on another location  
will not work, and obviously will not work moving to a windows 
environment.

thanks in advance,

        Giulio



From Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu  Wed Oct 30 12:25:01 2002
From: Timothy_Hart at umit.maine.edu (Timothy Hart)
Date: Wed Oct 30 12:25:01 2002
Subject: 2 questions: centering and relative paths
In-Reply-To: <C891D2CA-EC32-11D6-BB46-000393A949D8@cantoberon.it>
References: <C891D2CA-EC32-11D6-BB46-000393A949D8@cantoberon.it>
Message-ID: <fc.004c4d190f7e4fe33b9aca00be302e56.f7e55f6@umit.maine.edu>

use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes:
>
>2) I would like to keep all the images I use(Backgrounds, photos, etc.) 
>  on an external folder, let's say "media", on the same level of the 
>application.
>I can't find a way to set the filename on the properties of an Image as 
>a relative path (i mean on the IDE, not from transcript), using the 
>browse button i have always an absolute path that is mantaind on the 
>compiled app, so moving the app with its folder on another location  
>will not work, and obviously will not work moving to a windows 
>environment.
>
>thanks in advance,

This took me forever to figure out.  Any ways.  When you are in the development environment create a folder in the Revolution folder for these files.  We will call it "images."  Then when you want to put a picture in to you stack, use the image
tool, open up the properties, click the tab to the left and link it to /images/yourfile.  You could browse to it then just delete the first part of the path.  Then when you build it you will have to move this folder to where it was built to.  Hope
that helps.  Would be nice if the Rev documentation tells new users that.

-Tim









From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct 31 04:46:01 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct 31 04:46:01 2002
Subject: usage of "this"
Message-ID: <D0925F28-EC43-11D6-853E-000393529642@mindlube.com>

I was just hunting down this bug in my program, and it seems 
counterintuitive what I discovered. In this code, the value of "this 
stack" changes even before the handler finishes! That's surprising for 
some reason. I don't know why I though "this" was consistend through a 
handler. What other handlers or functions in rev can cause "this" to 
change like this?

if tCalcType is not empty then
     go to first card of stack tCalcType as toplevel
     -- close the the current... the stack we were just in.
     -- close this stack -- nope; "this stack" has now changed!
     close stack "FacilityCalculator"
end if

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to



From simran at teleline.es  Thu Oct 31 04:52:22 2002
From: simran at teleline.es (Peter Lundh)
Date: Thu Oct 31 04:52:22 2002
Subject: delete card number
Message-ID: <B9E6168E.119%simran@teleline.es>

Hi all-

Here's a simple question: How do I delete the card number and the two
brackets surrounding it at the top window bar in the compiled application?

Grateful for advice.

-Peter
--
Peter Lundh
simran at teleline.es
Derby, UK



From malte.brill at t-online.de  Thu Oct 31 04:59:01 2002
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Thu Oct 31 04:59:01 2002
Subject: 2 questions: centering and relative paths
Message-ID: <B9E6BBD8.14%520041426354-0001@t-online.de>

Hi Guilio!
Got a small tutorial on this on the newbies board.
http://www.mailping.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=tutorials;action=display
;num=1032762137
I set the location for all my Images and buttons via script, depending on
the screen resolution.
I hope this helps

Malte



From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Oct 31 05:00:00 2002
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu Oct 31 05:00:00 2002
Subject: Player object, -not- "import"!
Message-ID: <BF00B91D-EC96-11D6-97CA-000393AAEF66@macosx.com>

Wow! I told you that I could make a huge mistake by starting this app 
before getting proper advice! Looks like importing all the sounds would 
have made my app unusable due to the memory requirements of all those 
resident WAVs. I found the "player object" and a very nice stack from 
the RunRev website called "Player Stuff" which documents virtually 
everything I need to know...well, maybe there's more so I'll ask for 
any advice regarding playing sounds triggered by button pushes, 
"openStack" and "openCard" events, etc.

Whatever advice anyone has to offer will be gratefully accepted.

Thanks.

Barry

PS - Drooling for Rev2.0 



From sjoerdoptland at s2theatertechniek.nl  Thu Oct 31 05:26:01 2002
From: sjoerdoptland at s2theatertechniek.nl (Sjoerd Op 't Land)
Date: Thu Oct 31 05:26:01 2002
Subject: iCalendar/vCalendar (OT: joke)
In-Reply-To: <2C0B73E7-EC1B-11D6-A07D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <B9E5C620.6A69%sjoerdoptland@s2theatertechniek.nl>

Dar Scott wrote/ schreef:

> I don't know what iCalendar/vCalendar is, but I think it will have units
> of conductance, the inverse of resistance (ohms).
ohms^-1 (although V isn't the symbol for voltage anymore, it now is U)

> Dar Scott
Regards, / Groeten,
Sjoerd



From rpresender at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 31 05:31:04 2002
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Thu Oct 31 05:31:04 2002
Subject: ask/answer..  prev use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #807 
In-Reply-To: <200210301702.MAA25372@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <23485E2C-EC57-11D6-90DA-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, at 09:02  AM, Rodger Eller wrote

>>> Solution: start Rev first or make a standalone. I don't think there 
>>> is
>>> an other solution.
>>
>> Hi Terry,
>> Thank you for the info. It appears that one would have to assume that,
>> if ask/answer is used,
>> if it works in development it should work elsewhere.  I am aware that
>> in build  ask/answer
>> has to be selected in resources.  Wonder why it is not available if
>> one wants to check his work in a "project" situation rather than 
>> having
>> to build a standalone  each time ask/answer is used.
>> Again, thanks.
>>
>> Regards ... Bob
>
> To test your project WITH all of the resources available such as 
> ask/answer
> dialogs, you only have to select
> "Suspend Revolution UI" from the development menu. Then your project is
> running with everything it would normally have as a standalone, but the
> development environment is hidden.

Thanks for the tip Rodger.  It works great.

> I agree that testing would be more developer-friendly if one could just
> double-click a rev file from the desktop. This was discussed several 
> months
> ago on the list. I wonder if RunRev listened to their userbase on that
> issue as they were designing v1.5 (now v2.0). I believe there was a
> majority consensus that the the double-click method was more desirable 
> than
> suspending the UI from a menu. It just seems more intuitive to simply
> double-click the file to me.

It isn't in 1.5A7r1.  Maybe in 2.0?

Thanks again Rodger.

Regards ... Bob



From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Oct 31 05:38:01 2002
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu Oct 31 05:38:01 2002
Subject: Playing Audio in Windows
Message-ID: <3D1DA6B0-EC7A-11D6-AB17-000393AAEF66@macosx.com>

Greetings, Listas!

I am developing an app that will play audio speech. Shouldn't have a 
problem playing the audio files on either Mac or Windows (according to 
the RevDocs) as long as I import the AIFF or WAV into the stack (or 
another stack the app is using). I envision the clips being about 60 
seconds long or less (sometimes considerably less, like 10 seconds 
long). I won't need to have multiple clips playing at once nor will 
there be any queueing(sp?) taking place.

Is there anything I should do or look for at the get-go before I do a 
load of programming and find that I had made some wrong assumptions? 
I'm thinking in terms of the sound quality or format or even the 
program I use to record the speech in the first place.

Thanks,
Barry



From mswindel at santacruz.k12.ca.us  Thu Oct 31 05:59:01 2002
From: mswindel at santacruz.k12.ca.us (Mark Swindell)
Date: Thu Oct 31 05:59:01 2002
Subject: the foundChunk rectangle
In-Reply-To: <200210301702.MAA25372@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9E595D8.361A%mswindel@santacruz.k12.ca.us>

I have a field in which I want a string of text selected, the textcolor  of
that string changed, and then I want the find rectangle to disappear.

However, looking at the transcript dictionary, it looks like the only way to
make the rectangle disappear is to insert the cursor into the field, or
leave the card.  Setting the selected of the field to false doesn't work, as
it does in SuperCard.  Is there another way?

(Also, I was going to copy and paste the section out of the dictionary to
quote, but discovered you can't do that.  What's up with that?)


Thanks,
Mark



From levinson at hawaii.edu  Thu Oct 31 06:02:09 2002
From: levinson at hawaii.edu (Jerry Levinson)
Date: Thu Oct 31 06:02:09 2002
Subject: Disappearing menu bar
Message-ID: <192563D6-EC3C-11D6-92DE-0003936728F8@hawaii.edu>

I just downloaded the Starter Kit and tried to convert an old HyperCard 
stack. It opened fine, but the menu bar disappeared to I couldn't get 
to the Distribution Builder (or anything else on the menu bar, for that 
matter). If I click in the space where the bar was, I get back to the 
Finder. As a Starter user, I don't have access to the Professional bug 
center (as near as I can tell), so here I am. Any help?

Maybe I'll get the OS9 version and try that...does it run under Classic 
or should I boot into 9?

Macintosh G4, OSX,10.2.1, 768MB/60GB. OSX is on its own partition. No 
unusual additions to the OS.

Thanks,
Jerry



From bvg at mac.com  Thu Oct 31 06:56:01 2002
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Thu Oct 31 06:56:01 2002
Subject: delete card number
In-Reply-To: <B9E6168E.119%simran@teleline.es>
Message-ID: <DB85D376-ECC6-11D6-9EC9-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

put something into the "label" of the stack, also gets rid of these 
nasty asterixes

On Donnerstag, Okt 31, 2002, at 00:06 Europe/Zurich, Peter Lundh wrote:

> Hi all-
>
> Here's a simple question: How do I delete the card number and the two
> brackets surrounding it at the top window bar in the compiled 
> application?
>
> Grateful for advice.
>
> -Peter
> --
> Peter Lundh
> simran at teleline.es
> Derby, UK
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From smilingeyes at mac.com  Thu Oct 31 08:55:33 2002
From: smilingeyes at mac.com (Ray Bennett)
Date: Thu Oct 31 08:55:33 2002
Subject: print card _without_  dialog
Message-ID: <3DC0574B.4020709@mac.com>

I've searched archives back through Mar 2002 for an answer to the question:
 
is there any way to do a "print card" and _not_ see the print dialog?  

As best I can tell, the answer is no.  My application, relative to user 
interaction, needs to be streamlined relative to user interaction 
because there are hundreds of transactions per hour.  I need to use 
"print card" because there are both fields and graphical elements on the 
card which are necessary on the printout.

Thanks in advance.   Ray



From k_major at os.surf2000.de  Thu Oct 31 09:17:00 2002
From: k_major at os.surf2000.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Oct 31 09:17:00 2002
Subject: 2 questions: centering and relative paths
In-Reply-To: <C891D2CA-EC32-11D6-BB46-000393A949D8@cantoberon.it>
Message-ID: <E0A6AFF5-EC4B-11D6-B2EC-000A27B49A96@os.surf2000.de>

Buona sera Giulio,

> ...
> 1) Can't find a way to imitate the Director "Full screen" option.
> I tryed this way:
>
> on preopenstack
>    set the rect of this stack to the screenrect
> end preopenstack
>
> using the geometry  manager i have set all the objects on the form 
> with a location relative to the image i use as background
>
> using the geometry  manager i have set the image i use as background 
> with a location relative to the card, exactly 0 pixel from the center 
> of the card, both horizontal and vertical.
>
> Nothing to do: the backgroud and all the controls stay always on the 
> topleft corner of the screen.

This is an easy one.

Create your stack in your desired size and put this into the stack 
script:

on preopenstack
   set the loc of this stack to the screenloc
   ### will center your stack, step 1
   set the backdrop to x,y,z
   ### where x,y,z has to be replaced
   ### by any RGB value, like the "stage-color" in Director
   ### where the background is replaced by that color
   ###step 2
end preopenstack

Check the dictionary for "backdrop".

> 2) I would like to keep all the images I use(Backgrounds, photos, 
> etc.)  on an external folder, let's say "media", on the same level of 
> the application.
> I can't find a way to set the filename on the properties of an Image 
> as a relative path (i mean on the IDE, not from transcript), using the 
> browse button i have always an absolute path that is mantaind on the 
> compiled app, so moving the app with its folder on another location  
> will not work, and obviously will not work moving to a windows 
> environment.

Timothy already answered this one...

> thanks in advance,
>
>        Giulio

Arrivederci


Klaus Major
k_major at os.surf2000.de



From k_major at os.surf2000.de  Thu Oct 31 09:17:16 2002
From: k_major at os.surf2000.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu Oct 31 09:17:16 2002
Subject: delete card number
In-Reply-To: <B9E6168E.119%simran@teleline.es>
Message-ID: <C5D88A00-ECC1-11D6-815A-000A27B49A96@os.surf2000.de>

Hejsan Peter,

> Hi all-
>
> Here's a simple question: How do I delete the card number and the two
> brackets surrounding it at the top window bar in the compiled 
> application?
>
> Grateful for advice.
>
> -Peter

just set the "label" of your stack to anything.

That will make the cardnumbers disappear.


Hej da


Klaus Major
k_major at os.surf2000.de



From sh at norgespost.no  Thu Oct 31 10:47:01 2002
From: sh at norgespost.no (Steen)
Date: Thu Oct 31 10:47:01 2002
Subject: Newbie, Cgi and the engine questions 
Message-ID: <B9E70D76.D4A9%sh@norgespost.no>

Hello List.

I have now search all list for information about my CGI 'problem'.
Tip of the Week, was close to my question.

At home I run Webten to test my perl script.
But I also wish to test the Revolution CGI at the same computer.

So fare I understand that I need an engine.
Webten run as Apache and I use OS 9.1

But what sort of engine do I need to download?

Is it important what name I give the engine?

Is revolution name of the engine in this path:
#!/home/httpd/cgi-bin/revolution

Do I need to do anything else with the engine before I can use it?

How do I name the CGI file?
(In pearl I do it with .pl at the end.)

Does any have some small 'Hello world' snippets?

I know this is some stupid questions, But I hope some will help me to get
started with CGI in Revolution.


Regards

Steen



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 31 10:56:00 2002
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu Oct 31 10:56:00 2002
Subject: the foundChunk rectangle
In-Reply-To: <B9E595D8.361A%mswindel@santacruz.k12.ca.us>
Message-ID: <B9E69E71.1F18A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Mark Swindell wrote:

> I have a field in which I want a string of text selected, the textcolor  of
> that string changed, and then I want the find rectangle to disappear.
> 
> However, looking at the transcript dictionary, it looks like the only way to
> make the rectangle disappear is to insert the cursor into the field, or
> leave the card.  Setting the selected of the field to false doesn't work, as
> it does in SuperCard.  Is there another way?
> 
> (Also, I was going to copy and paste the section out of the dictionary to
> quote, but discovered you can't do that.  What's up with that?)

You can force a redraw by locking and unlocking the screen:

on mouseUp
  find "t" in fld 1
  put the foundchunk into tSel
  lock screen
  unlock screen
select tSel
end mouseUp

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717                       AIM: FourthWorldInc



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Thu Oct 31 11:35:01 2002
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter)
Date: Thu Oct 31 11:35:01 2002
Subject: Thats a test pls ignore
In-Reply-To: <200210311549.KAA18392@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CD3F662A-ECED-11D6-86B3-003065430226@internettrainer.com>

Thats a test pls ignore

Sorry...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Learn easy with trainingsmaps?

INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com, wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539



From jmac at consensustech.com  Thu Oct 31 12:13:01 2002
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell)
Date: Thu Oct 31 12:13:01 2002
Subject: usage of "this"
In-Reply-To: <D0925F28-EC43-11D6-853E-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <B9E6A31A.B227%jmac@consensustech.com>

Alex,


> if tCalcType is not empty then
> go to first card of stack tCalcType as toplevel
> -- close the the current... the stack we were just in.
> -- close this stack -- nope; "this stack" has now changed!
> close stack "FacilityCalculator"
> end if
> 


While I'm still simply a newbie lurker... I think your answer lies in a post
on 10/24 from Rob Cozens titled "Heads Up For HyperCard Stack Converters ".
It sounds like a "dynamicPaths" type of issue (see below)

Rob was doing a HC conversion and ran into "unexpected" behavior which is
what you described. I'm still trying to figure it out the message path
differences myself. I was used to  working on other cards from a handler
without having to worry about "hurting" them unless I included a "of card
"XXX" type of instruction.

Hope this helps, check out Rob's original post and sorry for stealing your
brain-work Rob.

Jim MacConnell

********************************************
>>
dynamicPaths

If a stack's dynamicPaths property is true, when a handler in that
stack goes to a card other than the original card, that card's
message path is inserted into the message path as long as the handler
is on that card.

If the dynamicPaths is false, the message path does not change even
when a handler visits another card.

The dynamicPaths property of stacks imported from HyperCard is set to
true by default.
<<
********************************************



From dave.mckee at shaw.ca  Thu Oct 31 12:56:01 2002
From: dave.mckee at shaw.ca (dave.mckee at shaw.ca)
Date: Thu Oct 31 12:56:01 2002
Subject: Newbie Puzzled by Deleting Card
Message-ID: <20021031094709.007327%dave.mckee@shaw.ca>

I have OS 10.2.1 running and am trying out revolution 1.1.1 and have run into something strange;

If I have 2 cards and each card has one button with the following script;

on mouseup
  delete this card
end mouseup

and then if I click on the button on either card, I get the following error;

 ? There was an Execution Error at 9:45:15 AM
Error description:  Chunk: can't delete object
Object: button id 1005 of card id 1004 of stack "Untitled 1"
--------------------
delete this card
--------------------
Value: mouseup



What am I doing wrong ?  There must be something so painfully obvious about this that I just can not see why the script produces an error.



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu Oct 31 13:04:01 2002
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu Oct 31 13:04:01 2002
Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #809 - 2 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200210311701.MAA23248@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <296E81FB-ECF7-11D6-A4C8-0030654E23A2@byu.edu>


On Thursday, October 31, 2002, at 10:01  AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Mark Swindell wrote:
>
>> I have a field in which I want a string of text selected, the 
>> textcolor  of
>> that string changed, and then I want the find rectangle to disappear.
>>
>> However, looking at the transcript dictionary, it looks like the only 
>> way to
>> make the rectangle disappear is to insert the cursor into the field, 
>> or
>> leave the card.  Setting the selected of the field to false doesn't 
>> work, as
>> it does in SuperCard.  Is there another way?
>>
>> (Also, I was going to copy and paste the section out of the 
>> dictionary to
>> quote, but discovered you can't do that.  What's up with that?)
>
> You can force a redraw by locking and unlocking the screen:
>
> on mouseUp
>   find "t" in fld 1
>   put the foundchunk into tSel
>   lock screen
>   unlock screen
> select tSel
> end mouseUp
>
Or you can use the find empty form to clear the find rectangle:

on mouseUp
   find "thestuff" in fld "myfld"
   set the textColor of the foundChunk to blue
   find empty
end mouseUp

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University
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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 31 13:48:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct 31 13:48:01 2002
Subject: Disappearing menu bar
References: <192563D6-EC3C-11D6-92DE-0003936728F8@hawaii.edu>
Message-ID: <077101c2810c$94453770$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Jerry,

It's likely that the only HyperCard stack had the command "hide menubar" in
it. My suggestion would be to open the Starter Kit, open the Message box,
convert your stack and then type:

  show menubar

into the Message Box and hit ENTER. That might do it.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Levinson" <levinson at hawaii.edu>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:16 PM
Subject: Disappearing menu bar


> I just downloaded the Starter Kit and tried to convert an old HyperCard
> stack. It opened fine, but the menu bar disappeared to I couldn't get
> to the Distribution Builder (or anything else on the menu bar, for that
> matter). If I click in the space where the bar was, I get back to the
> Finder. As a Starter user, I don't have access to the Professional bug
> center (as near as I can tell), so here I am. Any help?
>
> Maybe I'll get the OS9 version and try that...does it run under Classic
> or should I boot into 9?
>
> Macintosh G4, OSX,10.2.1, 768MB/60GB. OSX is on its own partition. No
> unusual additions to the OS.
>
> Thanks,
> Jerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 31 13:52:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct 31 13:52:00 2002
Subject: print card _without_  dialog
References: <3DC0574B.4020709@mac.com>
Message-ID: <077c01c2810d$068c4850$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Ray,

Try doing "open printing", then print all your jobs, then "close printing".
This will cause all the printing to be done in one batch and you have the
option of showing the dialog or not. I haven't tried it myself, but it just
might work.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Bennett" <smilingeyes at mac.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 4:03 PM
Subject: print card _without_ dialog


> I've searched archives back through Mar 2002 for an answer to the
question:
>
> is there any way to do a "print card" and _not_ see the print dialog?
>
> As best I can tell, the answer is no.  My application, relative to user
> interaction, needs to be streamlined relative to user interaction
> because there are hundreds of transactions per hour.  I need to use
> "print card" because there are both fields and graphical elements on the
> card which are necessary on the printout.
>
> Thanks in advance.   Ray
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 31 13:56:00 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct 31 13:56:00 2002
Subject: Newbie Puzzled by Deleting Card
References: <20021031094709.007327%dave.mckee@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <079201c2810d$a58a2fd0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Dave,

The problem is you can't delete the card because the button's script is
running and the button is on the card you're trying to delete. The simple
approach is a "send" command that is delayed a few milliseconds; just long
enough for the button's script to complete. Something like:

on mouseUp
  send "delete this card" to this card in 10 milliseconds
end mouseUp

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: <dave.mckee at shaw.ca>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:47 AM
Subject: Newbie Puzzled by Deleting Card


> I have OS 10.2.1 running and am trying out revolution 1.1.1 and have run
into something strange;
>
> If I have 2 cards and each card has one button with the following script;
>
> on mouseup
>   delete this card
> end mouseup
>
> and then if I click on the button on either card, I get the following
error;
>
>  . There was an Execution Error at 9:45:15 AM
> Error description:  Chunk: can't delete object
> Object: button id 1005 of card id 1004 of stack "Untitled 1"
> --------------------
> delete this card
> --------------------
> Value: mouseup
>
>
>
> What am I doing wrong ?  There must be something so painfully obvious
about this that I just can not see why the script produces an error.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jyrki.kanerva at mediakeel.com  Thu Oct 31 14:24:01 2002
From: jyrki.kanerva at mediakeel.com (Jyrki Kanerva)
Date: Thu Oct 31 14:24:01 2002
Subject: Launch doc with a program
Message-ID: <007701c28112$f6b18a20$3e27ba50@usermpxylg1xja>

Hi, how do I start a progam form inside Runrev with a specific
document (PC not Mac).

I need something similar to:

revGoURL "http://www.runrev.com"

, but I have to open local pdfs and word docs for example.

I have tried the launch command, something like:

if (docFileNameWpath <> empty) then
  put word 1 to -2 of
queryRegistry("hkey_local_machine\software\classes\AcroExch.Document\shell\o
pen\command\") into acroBaatti
  launch docFileNameWpath  with acroBaatti
end if

I cant open the same pdf again or a different pdf. So this is not a reliable
way.
Some years ago (MetaCard) I used  External Collection, but now
the Collection works only in Macs (Runrev)?

Any suggestions. I know this been discussed some times
 but I havent found any solution yet. Some other command
than launch? How do you query reg to get right path to
launch the program.

Regards,

Jyrki Kanerva

--------------------------------
Mediakeel Oy
Linnanrakentajantie 6-8 C
00880 Helsinki
tel. 358 (0)9 323 3121
info at mediakeel.com
www.mediakeel.com
--------------------------------




From Meta at Dimensional.com  Thu Oct 31 14:28:00 2002
From: Meta at Dimensional.com (Jamie K)
Date: Thu Oct 31 14:28:00 2002
Subject: Newbie Puzzled by Deleting Card
References: <20021031094709.007327%dave.mckee@shaw.ca> <079201c2810d$a58a2fd0$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>
Message-ID: <3DC182FE.7090000@Dimensional.com>

There are a few things that are not immediately obvious about Rev. These 
sorts of things make certain operations several steps more difficult 
than you might expect, at first. That's the essence of Rev's learning 
curve. While the information is usually in the documentation somewhere, 
sometimes you have dig for it without necessarily knowing exactly what 
you're seeking. As more examples, tutorials and cookbook material become 
available it will become easier to more quickly understand some of Rev's 
design constraints and features and how to accomplish "simple" things.

For example, to make a typical HyperCard-like stack where multiple cards 
share the same elements, you must _group_ objects that you want to 
appear on each card, such as buttons and fields, and then enable 
Background Behaviour for the group.

Once you do that, a delete button that's a member of the background 
group can work to delete the current card as you would expect.

Best Regards,
 -Jamie (HyperSense documentation author) Krutz



Ken Ray wrote:

>Dave,
>
>The problem is you can't delete the card because the button's script is
>running and the button is on the card you're trying to delete. The simple
>approach is a "send" command that is delayed a few milliseconds; just long
>enough for the button's script to complete. Something like:
>
>on mouseUp
>  send "delete this card" to this card in 10 milliseconds
>end mouseUp
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <dave.mckee at shaw.ca>
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:47 AM
>Subject: Newbie Puzzled by Deleting Card
>
>
>  
>
>>I have OS 10.2.1 running and am trying out revolution 1.1.1 and have run
>>    
>>
>into something strange;
>  
>
>>If I have 2 cards and each card has one button with the following script;
>>
>>on mouseup
>>  delete this card
>>end mouseup
>>
>>and then if I click on the button on either card, I get the following
>>    
>>
>error;
>  
>
>> . There was an Execution Error at 9:45:15 AM
>>Error description:  Chunk: can't delete object
>>Object: button id 1005 of card id 1004 of stack "Untitled 1"
>>--------------------
>>delete this card
>>--------------------
>>Value: mouseup
>>
>>
>>
>>What am I doing wrong ?  There must be something so painfully obvious
>>    
>>
>about this that I just can not see why the script produces an error.
>  
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>  
>





From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Oct 31 14:58:00 2002
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu Oct 31 14:58:00 2002
Subject: usage of "this"
In-Reply-To: <B9E6A31A.B227%jmac@consensustech.com>
Message-ID: <1D25704A-ED0A-11D6-8EBC-000393529642@mindlube.com>

On Thursday, October 31, 2002, at 10:06  AM, Jim MacConnell wrote:
>
> While I'm still simply a newbie lurker... I think your answer lies in 
> a post
> on 10/24 from Rob Cozens titled "Heads Up For HyperCard Stack 
> Converters ".
> It sounds like a "dynamicPaths" type of issue (see below)
>
> Rob was doing a HC conversion and ran into "unexpected" behavior which 
> is
> what you described. I'm still trying to figure it out the message path
> differences myself. I was used to  working on other cards from a 
> handler
> without having to worry about "hurting" them unless I included a "of 
> card
> "XXX" type of instruction.
>
> Hope this helps, check out Rob's original post and sorry for stealing 
> your
> brain-work Rob.

That seems like the answer, but I just checked and my dynamicPaths 
properties are set to false in both of the stacks. Or do you think I 
should be running with dynamicPaths set to true?

> Jim MacConnell
>
> ********************************************
>>>
> dynamicPaths
>
> If a stack's dynamicPaths property is true, when a handler in that
> stack goes to a card other than the original card, that card's
> message path is inserted into the message path as long as the handler
> is on that card.
>
> If the dynamicPaths is false, the message path does not change even
> when a handler visits another card.
>
> The dynamicPaths property of stacks imported from HyperCard is set to
> true by default.
> <<
> ********************************************

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
alrice at swcp.com
alex_rice at arc.to




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 31 15:31:01 2002
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu Oct 31 15:31:01 2002
Subject: usage of "this"
References: <D0925F28-EC43-11D6-853E-000393529642@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <07ac01c2811a$f9fd8730$6f00a8c0@mckinley.dom>

Alex,

Actually this is consistent behavior because your context is switching.
"This" always refers to the object that has the focus. If you have a stack
named "stack one" and another named "stack two", and you have a button on
"stack one" that says:

on mouseUp
  go to first card of stack "stack two" as toplevel
end mouseUp

the current stack with the stack with the focus ("this stack") *before* the
"go to" command is "stack one", but once you opened another stack, it now
has the focus, and so "this stack" is looking at "stack two". If you want to
change the focus, you can use "set the defaultStack to <stackDescriptor>" or
do what you did, which is specifically address a stack by name when you
close it.

BTW: stacks open as topLevel automatically (unless you specify otherwise),
and will open to the first card as well, so you only need: go to stack
"stack two".

So if you want to close one stack and open another, you can do any of the
following:

on mouseUp
  go to stack "stack two"
  set the defaultStack to "stack one"
  close this stack
end mouseUp

on mouseUp
  go to stack "stack two"
  close stack "stack one"
end mouseUp

on mouseUp
  put the short name of this stack into tStack
  go to stack "stack two"
  close stack tStack
end mouseUp

And I'm sure there are a bunch more ways to do this. But you get the idea.

Hope "this" helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Rice" <alex at mindlube.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 2:11 PM
Subject: usage of "this"


> I was just hunting down this bug in my program, and it seems
> counterintuitive what I discovered. In this code, the value of "this
> stack" changes even before the handler finishes! That's surprising for
> some reason. I don't know why I though "this" was consistend through a
> handler. What other handlers or functions in rev can cause "this" to
> change like this?
>
> if tCalcType is not empty then
>      go to first card of stack tCalcType as toplevel
>      -- close the the current... the stack we were just in.
>      -- close this stack -- nope; "this stack" has now changed!
>      close stack "FacilityCalculator"
> end if
>
> Alex Rice, Software Developer
> Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
> alrice at swcp.com
> alex_rice at arc.to
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From giulio at cantoberon.it  Thu Oct 31 15:34:00 2002
From: giulio at cantoberon.it (giulio mastrosanti)
Date: Thu Oct 31 15:34:00 2002
Subject: Backdrop: another question
Message-ID: <0DB5F03D-ED0F-11D6-8A4D-000393A949D8@cantoberon.it>

Well,
My problems about playing a presentation full screen is fully solved, 
thanks to all you for answering...      :)
(solved also the problem of relative paths...)

I have only a little question, but not so important...
I have noticed that setting the backdrop to some color, let's say 
black, or setting it to some pattern, on the windows environment works 
great(well, at least on XP...), but on my mac the screen starts always 
with full white, then shows the backdrop color or pattern, and then the 
content of the card.

Again, not so important, but someone of you has a workaround to avoid 
this white flashing?
(did't try on classic, at the moment I'm testing only on Jaguar...)

Thanks,

       Giulio

PS:
In only few hours of playing today I'm sure  I'll not need to do an 
EXPENSIVE upgrade of Director to develop multimedia presentations for 
XP and OSX...
so, all my thanks to RunRev team and all the good people of this list...