[Use-revolution] Digest use-revolution.v001.n141

Sat Nov 24 22:04:01 EST 2001

-------------- BEGIN use-revolution.v001.n141 --------------

    001 - "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <je - Re: Closing Decorations Less Stacks
    002 - "Sjoerd Op 't Land" <sjoe - Re: Customize Rev for automatic email feedback?
    003 - Scott Rossi <scott at tactil - Re: Was  HTML Text Files
    004 - Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.f - Re: Customize Rev for automatic email feedback?
    005 - Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.f - Re: Customize Rev for automatic email feedback?
    006 - Shari <gogypsy at bellsouth. - Re: Requests
    007 - Shari <gogypsy at bellsouth. - Re: Image resizing
    008 - John Cuccio <jcuccio at pacb - Dead rev stack
    009 - "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <je - Re: Image resizing
    010 - "Mark MacKenzie (Shaw)" < - Re: Dead rev stack
    011 - andu <undo at cloud9.net>    - Re: Dead rev stack
    012 - "Scott Slaugh" <xslaugh at h - Re: Requests
    013 - "Mark MacKenzie (Shaw)" < - I Don't Understand Why This Is

This is the Use Revolution mailing list.  Use it to
discuss and solve "how-to" questions relating to using Revolution.
Please do not send bug reports or feature requests to this list.
To unsubscribe, place the word unsubscribe in the body of an
email and send it to use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com.

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.1 ---------------

From: "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <jeanne at runrev.com>
Subject: Re: Closing Decorations Less Stacks
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:43:16 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In-Reply-To: <200111181827.NAA08569 at www.runrev.com>

At 10:27 AM -0800 11/18/2001, Mark MacKenzie (Shaw) wrote:
>I have a Rev project with three stacks: Main, Pages, and TellTale.[...]
>After working a bit for development purposes use the file menu to close
>stack "Main", then stack "TellTale" (these close normally with save as) and
>then stack "Pages".
>
>Instead of stack  "Pages" closing, Revolution closes (partial quit) leaving
>the tool pallets behind along with the stack "Pages".  Pallets with close
>functions can be closed.
>
>Control-shift right click on stack "Pages" allows it to be set toplevel.

I'm guessing from the above that stack "Pages" perhaps was a palette? The
Close menu item closes toplevel and modeless windows, but not palettes, so
it would have closed whichever toplevel or modeless window was frontmost.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer!

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.2 ---------------

From: "Sjoerd Op 't Land" <sjoerdoptland at mac.com>
Subject: Re: Customize Rev for automatic email feedback?
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:05:28 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <200111212348.SAA23529 at www.runrev.com>

Judy Perry wrote/ schreef:

> 
>> Maybe you should do something like this with a plug-in.
> 
> --How so?
Because otherwise, you would have to hack into Revolution and recompile
it... And you can use the same plug-in in newer versions.

Regards, / Groeten,
Sjoerd

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.3 ---------------

From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
Subject: Re: Was  HTML Text Files
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:25:17 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <200111230435.XAA13676 at www.runrev.com>

Recently, Geoff Canyon wrote:

>> At 12:11 PM -0800 11/22/01, Scott Rossi wrote:
>> There is no such thing as a true "transparent" window.
> 
> For comparison, check out the things they're doing with QuickTime:
> 
> http://www.movtv.com/

These masked windows are fun stuff.  If masking counts as being transparent
(which I suppose it does) then I stand corrected.  And masking is quite
do-able in MC using the Odo WDEF on MacOS or the Tuviah's External
Collection on Windows.

Now have you seen any examples of windows with variable translucency?  I've
seen one, which is a filter window in version 3 of Kai's Power Tools on the
Mac.  The window to casts a real time dropshadow on whatever is beneath it,
and shows a distorted view through a lens.  This is pretty impressive.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.4 ---------------

From: Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu>
Subject: Re: Customize Rev for automatic email feedback?
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:48:56 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <200111231508.KAA20596 at www.runrev.com>

No, I mean, I'm an idiot and don't know *how* to do this...

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001, Sjoerd Op 't Land wrote:

> >> Maybe you should do something like this with a plug-in.
> >
> > --How so?
> Because otherwise, you would have to hack into Revolution and recompile
> it... And you can use the same plug-in in newer versions.

Judy

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.5 ---------------

From: Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu>
Subject: Re: Customize Rev for automatic email feedback?
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:48:56 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <200111231508.KAA20596 at www.runrev.com>

No, I mean, I'm an idiot and don't know *how* to do this...

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001, Sjoerd Op 't Land wrote:

> >> Maybe you should do something like this with a plug-in.
> >
> > --How so?
> Because otherwise, you would have to hack into Revolution and recompile
> it... And you can use the same plug-in in newer versions.

Judy

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.6 ---------------

From: Shari <gogypsy at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Requests
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:24:11 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
References: <200111221145.GAA31800 at www.runrev.com>
In-Reply-To: <200111221145.GAA31800 at www.runrev.com>

>I'm looking at the window and the intersect function is in the Dictionary.
>(Is that where you were looking for it, or were you checking somewhere
>else?)

Transcript Dictionary, under "intersect".  It describes intersect as 
it applies to arrays, but not to objects intersecting each other.

intersect(objectA,objectB)

Metacard's gives explanations for both the arrays and the objects.

>
>>I wish I had more control of overall Preference type stuff.  Like
>>whether help windows open in front of other windows or you have to
>>drag them out.  Like always colorizing scripts.
>
>I'm not completely sure what you mean by "help windows open in front of
>other windows" - they shouldn't open behind other windows, certainly - but
>if you can describe more completely I may be able to put it on the feature
>request list.
>
>There's an option to turn on automatic colorization in the Preferences (in
>the Script Editor pane).

This works if you manually type the script in, but I often work in a 
SimpleText file to update a script, and then paste it into the editor 
(this because of the many crashes I experienced, it guarantees my 
scripts will not get mangled, and I have a copy of them outside of 
Revolution to replace any that do get mangled.

If you paste the script in, you must manually colorize it.

As for windows hiding other windows, for example if I have the 
colorization window open, and then open a help window, it opens 
behind the colorization window.  Other windows obscure the help 
windows too.  They should always open in front of everything.

>  >I wish there were a window with the active variables and their contents.
>
>You can see a list of global variables and their contents in the message
>box. (It's the fourth tab from the left.)

Yes, but at the expense of having the message box available, which I 
use a lot.  If I understand it correctly, I cannot use both at the 
same time.

>  >Once I created a menu (menubar type menu), now I have to click on the
>>Toolbox or Application Overview to have the full set of development
>>menus.  Otherwise, when I'm in the stack, the only menus up there are
>>the ones I created.  I wish that weren't so.  Once I release it,
>>obviously I want only my menus up there, but during development I
>>want both sets of menus.
>
>Bit hard to do, since you'd need two sets of the "standard" menus (on Mac
>OS, Apple menu, Help menu, File, and Edit at least would be duplicated). If
>I'm envisioning what you're asking for correctly...

Hypercard did it.  It added on the menus you created, to the menubar 
after the "standard" menus.  So both were always available at the 
same time.  I never deleted the standard menus until saving the stack 
to a standalone in Hypercard.  I could work on the stack, with all 
the development menus available, and at the same time have the menus 
I added.

-- 
--Shareware Games for the Mac--
http://www.gypsyware.com
http://www.gypsygames.com

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.7 ---------------

From: Shari <gogypsy at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Image resizing
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:30:07 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
References: <200111221145.GAA31800 at www.runrev.com>
In-Reply-To: <200111221145.GAA31800 at www.runrev.com>

>  >One thing I'm curious about regarding images... in HC if I use
>>addcolor to create an image, it basically makes a COPY of the image
>>that's in the resource fork, so whatever I do to that image is not
>>permanent.
>>
>>I have an image that gets resized many times through handlers in Rev,
>>and I wonder if it's using a copy of the embedded image, or actually
>>resizing the image itself.  The image is embedded, and I simply used
>>the "show" command to make it visible.  Then manipulated it here and
>>there.
>
>It's being scaled for display, not copied.
>
>Scaling images is not recommended as a general rule, especially where
>responsiveness is critical, because it does slow down display of images.
>But obviously there are situations where it's not practical to create
>separate images ahead of time in all the required sizes.

So eventually the image will become corrupted?  This image gets 
resized many times, from big to small and back again, in little 
increments.

I tried creating a button and using the image as an icon, and 
resizing the button instead of the image, but as the button got 
smaller, instead of the image getting smaller too, it just got 
cropped off at the edges.

The goal is:

There is an image
If the user does something the image gets a little bit smaller
This will happen many times, until the image is very small
On relaunching the program, the image starts out at the original 
(big) size again

Will this eventually corrupt the original image that is embedded, so 
that it no longer looks the same as when I embedded it?

-- 
--Shareware Games for the Mac--
http://www.gypsyware.com
http://www.gypsygames.com

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.8 ---------------

From: John Cuccio <jcuccio at pacbell.net>
Subject: Dead rev stack
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:50:58 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This week has been a rev night mare.

I have a stack with a substack. When I open the substack I get the unknow
error messagge.I go to the stack prperties, window open fine. Now press the
script tab, the square window show , that has the acutal error, but then
goes away so I can not see what the error is. Then a messagge commes up,
witth the stop hand, An unknown error occured. It is possible that a
property cannot be set to a value you have enteredl. I press the OK button.
Same message again I press OK. Then the Stack Properties window is showing.
So I go to click the script tab again same thing. It just keep repeating and
I can not get any Thing to open.

If I do not open the substack every things works fine. The Sub stack is
doing something, but I can not fix it.

Is there a way to get the scripts out of that stack so that I can load them
into a new stack. So I can figure out what is going on.

This stack was writen in rev 1.0 Same problem in rev 1.1 and different Mac
OS

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.9 ---------------

From: "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <jeanne at runrev.com>
Subject: Re: Image resizing
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:35:56 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
References: <200111221145.GAA31800 at www.runrev.com>
 <200111221145.GAA31800 at www.runrev.com>
In-Reply-To: <200111231831.NAA24622 at www.runrev.com>

At 10:30 AM -0800 11/23/2001, Shari wrote:
>>It's being scaled for display, not copied.
>>
>>Scaling images is not recommended as a general rule, especially where
>>responsiveness is critical, because it does slow down display of images.
>>But obviously there are situations where it's not practical to create
>>separate images ahead of time in all the required sizes.
>
>So eventually the image will become corrupted?

No, that's what "being scaled for display" means. The actual image data
remains the same; the slowdown is because the engine needs to recompute the
scaling from scratch every time the image is displayed. (You wouldn't want
to use this technique, for instance, on a card with many images all of
which were scaled.)

But the original image data always remains the same, so scaling it
repeatedly won't corrupt it.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com
http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer!

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.10 ---------------

From: "Mark MacKenzie (Shaw)" <markmac at shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Dead rev stack
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:53:29 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <200111231952.OAA25428 at www.runrev.com>

Interesting that you should write about this at this moment.

I have what I think is a similar problem which began last evening.  I am
running development on a PC WinME.

I would like to know the answers to your questions my self.

When this kind of thing happens in iShell we can open the .k files in a word
process and hunt down the codes involved and hopefully get a working program
back which can then be built back.

I guess we need a "Road Map" on what to look for when using a text editor to
look at the .rev stacks.  Something to help us separate out sub-stacks into
either editable projects for error trapping or in a "limb lopping off"
operation to pare the error causing stacks from the main stack so that we
can begin the recovery process.

Maybe we can use the debug abilities of Rev to run defective stacks in a
command line like atmosphere.  This may already exist and I just haven't got
familiar with it.

Regards Mark MacKenzie

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Cuccio" <jcuccio at pacbell.net>
To: <use-revolution at www.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 1:50 PM
Subject: Dead rev stack

> This week has been a rev night mare.
>
> I have a stack with a substack. When I open the substack I get the unknown
> error messagge.I go to the stack prperties, window open fine. Now press
the
> script tab, the square window show , that has the acutal error, but then
> goes away so I can not see what the error is. Then a messagge commes up,
> witth the stop hand, An unknown error occured. It is possible that a
> property cannot be set to a value you have enteredl. I press the OK
button.
> Same message again I press OK. Then the Stack Properties window is
showing.
> So I go to click the script tab again same thing. It just keep repeating
and
> I can not get any Thing to open.
>
> If I do not open the substack every things works fine. The Sub stack is
> doing something, but I can not fix it.
>
>
> Is there a way to get the scripts out of that stack so that I can load
them
> into a new stack. So I can figure out what is going on.
>
> This stack was writen in rev 1.0 Same problem in rev 1.1 and different Mac
> OS
>

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.11 ---------------

From: andu <undo at cloud9.net>
Subject: Re: Dead rev stack
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 20:26:03 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <200111231952.OAA25428 at www.runrev.com> <200111232352.SAA27529 at www.runrev.com>

"Mark MacKenzie (Shaw)" wrote:
> 
> Interesting that you should write about this at this moment.
> 
> I have what I think is a similar problem which began last evening.  I am
> running development on a PC WinME.
> 
> I would like to know the answers to your questions my self.
> 
> When this kind of thing happens in iShell we can open the .k files in a word
> process and hunt down the codes involved and hopefully get a working program
> back which can then be built back.
> 
> I guess we need a "Road Map" on what to look for when using a text editor to
> look at the .rev stacks.  Something to help us separate out sub-stacks into
> either editable projects for error trapping or in a "limb lopping off"
> operation to pare the error causing stacks from the main stack so that we
> can begin the recovery process.
> 
> Maybe we can use the debug abilities of Rev to run defective stacks in a
> command line like atmosphere.  This may already exist and I just haven't got
> familiar with it.
> 
> Regards Mark MacKenzie
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Cuccio" <jcuccio at pacbell.net>
> To: <use-revolution at www.runrev.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 1:50 PM
> Subject: Dead rev stack
> 
> > This week has been a rev night mare.
> >
> > I have a stack with a substack. When I open the substack I get the unknown
> > error messagge.I go to the stack prperties, window open fine. Now press
> the
> > script tab, the square window show , that has the acutal error, but then
> > goes away so I can not see what the error is. Then a messagge commes up,
> > witth the stop hand, An unknown error occured. It is possible that a
> > property cannot be set to a value you have enteredl. I press the OK
> button.
> > Same message again I press OK. Then the Stack Properties window is
> showing.
> > So I go to click the script tab again same thing. It just keep repeating
> and
> > I can not get any Thing to open.
> >
> > If I do not open the substack every things works fine. The Sub stack is
> > doing something, but I can not fix it.
> >
> >
> > Is there a way to get the scripts out of that stack so that I can load
> them
> > into a new stack. So I can figure out what is going on.

Here's how:
first make a new stack to copy the substack's script to and do the
following in the message box.
put the script of stack <the name of substack here> into temp
set the script of stack <the name of substack here> to empty
set the script of stack <the name of new stack here> to temp
save stack <the name of substack here>
save stack <the name of new stack here>

Also you can comment the stack script by script.

> >
> > This stack was writen in rev 1.0 Same problem in rev 1.1 and different Mac
> > OS
> >

Andu

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.12 ---------------

From: "Scott Slaugh" <xslaugh at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Requests
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 21:37:05 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <200111221145.GAA31800 at www.runrev.com> <200111231825.NAA24569 at www.runrev.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shari" <gogypsy at bellsouth.net>
To: <use-revolution at www.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Requests

> >I'm looking at the window and the intersect function is in the
Dictionary.
> >(Is that where you were looking for it, or were you checking somewhere
> >else?)
>
> Transcript Dictionary, under "intersect".  It describes intersect as
> it applies to arrays, but not to objects intersecting each other.
>
> intersect(objectA,objectB)
>
> Metacard's gives explanations for both the arrays and the objects.

Revolution does have the description of the intersect for objects.  Set you
dictionary to filter with a certain string, and then choose intersect
function, not the intersect keyword.

Scott Slaugh
>
> >
> >>I wish I had more control of overall Preference type stuff.  Like
> >>whether help windows open in front of other windows or you have to
> >>drag them out.  Like always colorizing scripts.
> >
> >I'm not completely sure what you mean by "help windows open in front of
> >other windows" - they shouldn't open behind other windows, certainly -
but
> >if you can describe more completely I may be able to put it on the
feature
> >request list.
> >
> >There's an option to turn on automatic colorization in the Preferences
(in
> >the Script Editor pane).
>
> This works if you manually type the script in, but I often work in a
> SimpleText file to update a script, and then paste it into the editor
> (this because of the many crashes I experienced, it guarantees my
> scripts will not get mangled, and I have a copy of them outside of
> Revolution to replace any that do get mangled.
>
> If you paste the script in, you must manually colorize it.
>
> As for windows hiding other windows, for example if I have the
> colorization window open, and then open a help window, it opens
> behind the colorization window.  Other windows obscure the help
> windows too.  They should always open in front of everything.
>
> >  >I wish there were a window with the active variables and their
contents.
> >
> >You can see a list of global variables and their contents in the message
> >box. (It's the fourth tab from the left.)
>
> Yes, but at the expense of having the message box available, which I
> use a lot.  If I understand it correctly, I cannot use both at the
> same time.
>
> >  >Once I created a menu (menubar type menu), now I have to click on the
> >>Toolbox or Application Overview to have the full set of development
> >>menus.  Otherwise, when I'm in the stack, the only menus up there are
> >>the ones I created.  I wish that weren't so.  Once I release it,
> >>obviously I want only my menus up there, but during development I
> >>want both sets of menus.
> >
> >Bit hard to do, since you'd need two sets of the "standard" menus (on Mac
> >OS, Apple menu, Help menu, File, and Edit at least would be duplicated).
If
> >I'm envisioning what you're asking for correctly...
>
> Hypercard did it.  It added on the menus you created, to the menubar
> after the "standard" menus.  So both were always available at the
> same time.  I never deleted the standard menus until saving the stack
> to a standalone in Hypercard.  I could work on the stack, with all
> the development menus available, and at the same time have the menus
> I added.
>
> --
> --Shareware Games for the Mac--
> http://www.gypsyware.com
> http://www.gypsygames.com
>
>

--------------- MESSAGE use-revolution.v001.n141.13 ---------------

From: "Mark MacKenzie (Shaw)" <markmac at shaw.ca>
Subject: I Don't Understand Why This Is
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 23:49:30 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I am developing a tool stack which will eventually give me all the variables
in a multi-stack project.  It will read through the script text prior to the
global and local variables being initialized by their first handlers and
list the variables and perhaps allow commenting and if I feel good and lucky
perhaps the instances of their occurrences.

So I have a stack which puts the names of the main stack and substacks of
my project in a field  as in:

Field:  Open Stacks

Chapters
ImageBank
Illustrations
FullScreenViewer
ThumbnailScroller
VariableTracker
BookCover            (This one is the mainstack)

Another button (Get Card IDs) gets the Card IDs and puts them into another
field (Card ID) using this script:

on mouseup
  local NumberOfOpenStacks
  put empty into NumberOfOpenStacks    <---  Redundant I know, put it in as
part of my error trapping
  put empty into field "Card ID"
  put the number of lines of field "Open Stacks" into NumberOfOpenStacks
  put the number of lines of field "Open Stacks" into message
  if NumberOfOpenStacks > 0 then
    repeat until NumberOfOpenStacks = 0
      put the cardIDs of stack (line NumberOfOpenStacks of field "Open
Stacks") & "," & (line NumberOfOpenStacks of field "Open Stacks") after
field "Card ID"
      if NumberOfOpenStacks > 1 then
        put return after field "Card ID"
      end if
      subtract 1 from NumberOfOpenStacks
      put NumberOfOpenStacks into message
    end repeat
  end if
end mouseup

Resulting in these results in:
 Field         Card ID

1002                                    <--- This should have a "," &
"BookCover"
1013,BookCover
1002,Variable Tracker
1002,ThumbnailScroller
1002,FullScreenViewer
1002,Illustrations
1002,ImageBank
1002                                    <--- This should have a "," &
"Chapters"
1004                                    <--- This should have a "," &
"Chapters"
1007,Chapters

As far as I can see when inspecting the stacks and the cards properties
there is nothing which would account for this discrepancy in reporting
behaviour.

Using Rev 1.1 on PC WinME

When I finish this exercise project it will be available for anyone who
wants it.

Regards Mark

--------------- END use-revolution.v001.n141 ---------------